Most PUGs these days way overgear any content. That's probably the lowest group I've seen in a PUG LI and its one I organised in General. I don't regularly PUG this FP, but I've cleared it a few times in a PUG. Since my first clear I've never had a PUG give up or be unable to do it.

It's really tough until you learn it, then its a nice challenge for a bit before you get it really down. After that its a joke like the rest of the FPs.
.

I've cleared with pug a few times as well, and all of them have at least Columi, all tionese groups failed horribly.

So why don't you start crusading that PUGs shouldn't be allowed to disband until they're cleared the instance?

The issue is that its a mechanic heavy instance and if you aren't coordinating you will die quickly and frequently. PUGs aren't known for their coordination so they have a harder time doing it. As Khevar said, this is like a mini EC from a mechanics standpoint, you can't just ignore the mechanics. Personally, I find LI much more forgiving than that boss in BoI that everyone just runs past because he's insanely tough on melee. The only difference (IMO) is that you can't skip the LI bosses when they get too hard.

Before 1.3 and the 5 BH com daily, Tier 1 HM FPs were for the Columi drop off the final boss. The rest got vendor'd or given to a comp. Well, the 1 Columi piece and the Biometric mat.

The difference between daily gear and Tionese was small enough that no one really cared much about the Tio drops.

And that's why they changed it, right now Tier 1 HM drops

Level 56 Exotech
Columi Implants/Earpieces/belts
Some Relics

All these are upgrade to Tionese players.

Quote:

People do HM LI for fun, final boss gear, and the possibility of a pet/speeder.

In other HM FPs people run it for final boss gear. Seems like HM LI has more reasons to be done, not less.

Why should a FP only have the final boss drop upgrade? Would it be fair if EC HM only drop rakata before the final boss? If other bosses drop useless stuff to most of the people(they need columi to beat), why put them there?

So why don't you start crusading that PUGs shouldn't be allowed to disband until they're cleared the instance?

The issue is that its a mechanic heavy instance and if you aren't coordinating you will die quickly and frequently. PUGs aren't known for their coordination so they have a harder time doing it. As Khevar said, this is like a mini EC from a mechanics standpoint, you can't just ignore the mechanics. Personally, I find LI much more forgiving than that boss in BoI that everyone just runs past because he's insanely tough on melee. The only difference (IMO) is that you can't skip the LI bosses when they get too hard.

It's not they shouldn't do it, this is a game and people's patience is limited, not to say you have to pay repair bills.

So you should tell people what to do over and over again? I'm sure they will leave the FP, and I do think the difficulty does not match the drop. Why spend hours to wipe, tons of bills to repair when you can do D7/Foundry nice and easily to get the same gear?

No, I did all the boss quite a few times, he's not even close to any bosses in LI.

Why should a FP only have the final boss drop upgrade? Would it be fair if EC HM only drop rakata before the final boss? If other bosses drop useless stuff to most of the people(they need columi to beat), why put them there?

See, this is an excellent point.

The average player that makes it into HM EC is going to have mostly Black Hole. Ever since 1.5 dropped they've also been able to buy Campaign armoring from the BH vendor, and many have this as well.

This means that the average player is going to get BUPKISS from HM EC until the final boss when the Campaign mainhand drops.

By comparison, a skilled player is going to go into HM EC with less level 61 gear, and more Rakata. THEY are the ones that benefit from the drop.

I'm trying to say the same thing for HM LI.

The AVERAGE player only gets a benefit from the final boss. The SKILLED player who is not overgearing it gets a benefit from ALL the bosses.

It's not they shouldn't do it, this is a game and people's patience is limited, not to say you have to pay repair bills.

So you should tell people what to do over and over again? I'm sure they will leave the FP, and I do think the difficulty does not match the drop. Why spend hours to wipe, tons of bills to repair when you can do D7/Foundry nice and easily to get the same gear?

No, I did all the boss quite a few times, he's not even close to any bosses in LI.

Aside from you, the only people I see complaining about the difficulty not matching the drops are people that either have cleared it once, or never cleared it. The people that are stating that the drops are fine are the ones that have cleared it multiple times.

LI drops are inline with EVERY other piece of content in the game. It is a mechanic heavy instance so players have to actually DO the right thing. Its about on par with pre-nerf Bulwark IMO. If someone wasn't hitting their shield and burning their add ASAP you wiped to enrage. Now that fight is a joke.

Now compare being 1-2 tiers over gear when running LI HM (Columi/Rakata) to running TFB or EC SM (Rakata/BH). You get very little upgrade except off the last boss. If you're willing to push it in lower tier gear, you get quite a bit from it.

The average player that makes it into HM EC is going to have mostly Black Hole. Ever since 1.5 dropped they've also been able to buy Campaign armoring from the BH vendor, and many have this as well.

No, the people I've met can do a few bosses with Rakata and get the upgrade. 1.5 was only out for a few weeks and that's long after TFB released.

Quote:

This means that the average player is going to get BUPKISS from HM EC until the final boss when the Campaign mainhand drops.

By comparison, a skilled player is going to go into HM EC with less level 61 gear, and more Rakata. THEY are the ones that benefit from the drop.

I'm trying to say the same thing for HM LI.

The AVERAGE player only gets a benefit from the final boss. The SKILLED player who is not overgearing it gets a benefit from ALL the bosses.

If it's good design, why didn't TFB HM drop campaign until the final boss? And HM KP/EV can be done with Columi for the majority. Tier 1 HM also drop useful stuff for Tionese like I listed. If that's good design, why didn't Bio continue with it? Nor did I see from even vanilla WOW.

A FP's boss encounters should drop upgrade for the majority, simple role, I don't know why you are against it.

Aside from you, the only people I see complaining about the difficulty not matching the drops are people that either have cleared it once, or never cleared it. The people that are stating that the drops are fine are the ones that have cleared it multiple times.

No, even in this thread, people mostly cleared it.

Quote:

LI drops are inline with EVERY other piece of content in the game. It is a mechanic heavy instance so players have to actually DO the right thing. Its about on par with pre-nerf Bulwark IMO. If someone wasn't hitting their shield and burning their add ASAP you wiped to enrage. Now that fight is a joke.

No it's not, unless you want to compare the difficulty of Revan VS LR-5 or Mentor VS Sav-Rak
Yes, and Bulwark got nerfed, if it was still so hard with the same drop people won't be willing to do D7 that much.

Quote:

Now compare being 1-2 tiers over gear when running LI HM (Columi/Rakata) to running TFB or EC SM (Rakata/BH). You get very little upgrade except off the last boss. If you're willing to push it in lower tier gear, you get quite a bit from it.

There are HM and the SM of these is to know the HM well enough, LI is different.

If it's good design, why didn't TFB HM drop campaign until the final boss? And HM KP/EV can be done with Columi for the majority. Tier 1 HM also drop useful stuff for Tionese like I listed. If that's good design, why didn't Bio continue with it? Nor did I see from even vanilla WOW.

A FP's boss encounters should drop upgrade for the majority, simple role, I don't know why you are against it.

TFB is TUNED for Camapign, people don't have the option of overgearing it without spending a fortune. HM EC is tuned for un-augmented Rakata, but most people can't clear it in that. Anyone that can, should be able to clear HM LI in Tionese/Columi mix.

HM EV/KP are also TUNED for Columi. Doesn't mean the majority can do it in those, but those groups that do head in there with Columi will get upgrades.

You're now comparing what something is TUNED for with what most people can CLEAR it in. Yes, it is possible to clear content in the gear it is tuned for, that is the point! It is possible to clear LI HM in Tionese, which it is tuned for. Just because some people can't, doesn't mean it is wrong.

The statements and opinions expressed on these websites are solely those of their respective authors and do not necessarily reflect the views, nor are they endorsed by Bioware, LucasArts, and its licensors do not guarantee the accuracy of, and are in no way responsible for any content on these websites.

The statements and opinions expressed on these websites are solely those of their respective authors and do not necessarily reflect the views, nor are they endorsed by Bioware, LucasArts, and its licensors do not guarantee the accuracy of, and are in no way responsible for any content on these websites.