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Nowadays , by standers rather than helping out , they rather get out their mobile phones and start recording and then upload to youtube. The sad thing is the "sikh" isnt even attempting to defend himself , or even run away , he is just taking it all.

I agree , but I think its a starter keep prodding and probing the mgmt , will make them think twice( hopefully) of their own personal agenda . What else can we do ?
I agree , but the mgmt agenda was to use the hall for social functions where meat and alcohol can be consumed . ( They posted letters to the so called members stating if no one responds to the letter they sent out then their agenda would be approved and actioned .... which it was supposedly only 19/1800 people responded , so 19 no's and default 1781 YES in favor.
This was picked upon by a few and challenged and still being challenged since August 2016 . I agree long run objectives should be looked at and challenged as well . ( The mgmt have changed the Gurudawara constitution as well , which are against Gurmat and Sikhi values )
I dont think the Gurudwara should be abandoned , especially when Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is present their. Give them the option to buck up your ideas or take out maharji's saroop from the Gurudawara , then they can do whatever they want.
Some good points AjeetSInghPunjabi , I was having a discussion with someone else regarding the Gurudawara structure . I think the biggest problem is "a body/organisation" which has the power to overturn a Gurudwaras objectives/constitution. As we know this power at the moment lies with the charity commission , providing the Gurudawara is a registered charity. But their power is to make sure money is not swindled , the Gurudwaras constitution are followed . They dont have the authority to tell the mgmt how to run a Gurudwara according to Gurmat and Sikhi principles. I think a proper vetted , objectives and role based Gurudwara structure needs to be setup and passed in parliament giving that structure/organisation the power to intervene at Gurudwaras not following its objectives. How will this be setup ? I think from discussion , seeking out the Gurmats,scholars,professionals amongst the sangat to align the objectives of a Gurudwara. This then be rolled out to all the Gurudawaras.
There may be information out their already , just need collating and presenting to the sangat at every Gurudwara in UK , then around the World. Because at the moment I feel there is none whatsover , and keep going round in circles. You have Sikh Council UK , Satkaar Committee , British Sikh Council , Ramagarhia Council UK , who don't have the power to override the wrongdoings at a Gurudwara. They try within their boundaries and limitations and then wither away when the response is low.
Regarding India and Punjab hopefully with wahegurus kirpa if we sort out our own neighbourhood first then we can help our brothers and sisters in Punjab. Punjab referendum 2020 , is the the next milestone to determine if our brothers and sisters in Punjab require their own state ( Again 2020 is approaching fast , I don't see this being televised or how the organisations are trying to educate the people from Punjab as to it's benefits).
May waheguru give us power and guidance to do the right thing even when numbers are low we can only hope and pray.

Some good points in the post jashb
If there were establishments that had the authority to clamp down on such issues then I think whoever is in charge would think twice about their objectives to serve the Panth based on Sikhi . If the sangat woke up , got together and acted ( peacefully of course) then they would think twice especially when at any Gurudawara the hub is Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth SAhib Ji Maharaj.
Its not about crying , its about making sangat aware , and with Wahegurus Kirpa , keep knocking at their door making them aware the sangat are "watching their moves" .
We can only hope and pray few individuals in charge realize they are truly blessed having the opportunity to the serve the Guru and should do so whole heatedly.
Thats why sangats support is crucial regardless of which Gurudawara they follow , what pend they are from ,, a simple letter,call, email telling them about the concerns goes a long way.
To make a change , sadly its based on membership , the more members you have on your side who can vote , then they can be kicked out of power and then changes can be made such as Gurudwara name , no elections , select amritdhari's etc........ then the question arises , how many of the sangat are willing to stand up for this cause and put their names forward ( not many) as I understand its not an easy task takes a lot of commitment , but then the few who have that passion for Guru Maharaj is what I think we need to seek out , get their guidance , help hence asking the sangat for help and to act .

We hooked them up , and spoke to the trustees .... one was neutral and very pleasant guy , 2 were Amrit Dhari , even though agreed with us ( No meat alcohol should be served in the hall) but wanted to wait for the decision of the members . When queried about members , that it is a Gurudwara not a Club , they were not willing to convince the management , but rather wait on "members decision" .
I think if we keep quiet , consciously knowing their response , they will have a field day and keep making wrong decisions and see the Gurudawara not as a Gurudawara where our Guru resides , but a mere building to make profit , but profit for whom? ( is another topic /food for thought). I appreciate bills , building maintenance etcc cost money and need funding but I also believe if Guru Maharaj Ji;s message is portrayed with love and compassion with no personal gain , aim to share the Guru's messge whoever walks in to the Gurudwara so one takes something away which can enhance ones spiritual journey , then with Guru Ji's kirpa there will be no shortcomings. ( AT LEAST TRY !!!!!! ) ( Their aim should be at least "try" sharing and spreading sikhi and run the Gurudwara according to Gurmat principles ).
Up to an extend i agree , and have seen that , they are not bothered, simply because we have not enough "people" behind the cause.As i mentioned before its a numbers game , bombard them with phone calls, letters , messages at least then they'll know the Sangat ( where ever they reside and not just there so called "members" or their relatives are responding to them) are awake and they cannot just willingly do as they please , may make them think twice and change for the better. I believe the power is in the sangat and with Guru Maharaj ji's kirpa.
Absolutely agree . then they can make as many members as they like ( obviously this should be the last resort though)

With Guru Maharajs kirpa , we are trying ... nut no one is listening , as i already mentioned sadly its a numbers game , need the sangat to wake up and provide support , the more people knocking at their door , hopefully they will listen , one or two then they will carry on with their own agenda.

I agree , but do we just let them carry on and say its karma , or do we make a stance and try to educate them , make them see sense . If an individual dont want to then its their prerogative , but i think we should not just let it be but try our best , especially when Guru Maharaj has given each one of us a choice , make a stance where things are wrong , wherever there is injustice , you will see a sikh .

Where there is prakash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj , is it termed as caste based Gurdawara ? .... No
Again I think we are failing to understand that where there is Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj , and practices are not according to Gurmat , sikhi principles then :-
a) do we just keep quiet and let it be
b) try to make a difference and keep knocking at their door .
Interesting comment . The Hall is owned by the Gurudawara , daswand of the sangat. So do you not think the hall should be used to tell the sangat about Sikhi , abide by Gurmat principles. In Bradford near a Gurdawara a slaughter house was opened , sikhs rallied, petitioned to get this closed or moved away from the Gurudawara. In fact the Sikhs believe Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj as the living Guru. If in physical form Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was present at the Gurudawara and these things were happening , would it be acceptable ? ( the fact is Guru Maharaj is present , but we dont acknowledge it ) .

Its so sad i know , but the point here is not about whether they are ramgarhia, jatt ,or whatever ... but do we say what they are doing as conforming to the Gurmat Marayada ?
The understanding I have is that Gurdawaras are registered charities,
Charity commission who register the Gurdawaras as charities have a set of rules and regulations they need to abide by . For example , charity name, the charity structure , who are the owners , what their objectives are etc...
This is where you have trustees, committee which should be selected from the sangat , but rather its more of an election , where only members can vote.... then it becomes a numbers game.
Gurudawaras commitee, trustees should be those who believe in Gurus teachings and want to provide a platform for the sangat to learn and take somehting away in order to make that spiritual journey.
Where these things happen and in this instance meat and alcohol are served in the hall owned by the Gurudawara which is about 50 yards away ? , Should we " the sangat" regardless of background, caste, colour , who believe in Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and its teachings to be the living guru for the Sikhs especially in Gurudawaras make a stand or let it be ?

I think its more of protecting your own back. Make sure you dont make the wrong move as we know the people in charge get Solicitors involved , make allegations against you , etc.... but they dont see that a Gurudawara is a central hub for sikhs and non sikhs to get enlightened from the teachings of Dhan Dhan sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj , but they dont see that , they see a building and profit.
Sadly its all a numbers game, a few of us have been trying since August 2016 to have dialogue with the management , but they dont want to discuss.
Back in 2010/2011 ( see thread attached) response was good . People called the gurudawara made their point , Satkaar committee wrote them a letter , held peaceful demonstrations and got them to stop using the hall from 2011 for consuming meat and alcohol . Now in 2017 same this is happening again and response is very poor.
I personally believe sangat needs to apply pressure in numbers , bombard them with their presence be it on the phone, letters or in person, hence why i see it as a numbers game .... in order for them to respond.
But the sangats views even on this thread is very minimal , which then makes me think , the cause we are fighting for is it a worthy cause .

Despite the efforts of a few sikhs trying to make the management see sense , as not to serve Meat and Alcohol at the hall owned by the Gurudawara , they still went ahead and passed their agenda amongst themselves and the first party where meat and alcohol was served ocurred on the 24th February 2017 and many more to come !!!!
Many attempts were made to contact the current management committee , trying to explian to them that no one is against any individual wishing to consume meat and alcohol , but rather the issue being these events should not happen in Gurudawara or Gurudawara buildings as its against Gurmat principles.
So sangat ji , need help as what steps to take next . The thread above( back in 2010/2011) , stating Satkaar committee wrote them a letter , held peaceful demonstrations , Sikh Channel broadcasted panth time from the hall and the management stated on 12th march 2011 that no more consumption of meat , alcohol and tobacco from there on .
But still it is happening today !!!!!!!!!!!!
We have approached the management committee , Sikh Council UK , Satkaar Committee , Ramgarhia Sikh Council UK ........ they do their little bit then it all fizzles out . Theres no real body that has influence over these few Gurudawaras.
Sangat Ji , is this issue a non entity, a non issue ?
Not worth fighting for ?
OR should we make a stand and try to reverse their decision ?

My opinion is that there should not be Kirtan competitions , BUT a platform at the Gurudawara made available to anyone who is learning kirtan be they a beginner, intermediate or advanced level. Obviously not just turning up on the day , need to be practicing first. This way gives the student an incentive to learn and a sense of purpose knowing that they will be singing a shabad at their local / central gurudawara. I think this will develop their skills , make they want to learn more , build their confidence and hopefully continue singing shabads and move to the next level of vichaaring the shabad as well as singing.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa whaeguru ji ke fateh
In my opinion less is more . There are already plenty of Gurudawaras in the UK . One can meditate anytime and any place . Lets not take opening a Gurudawara lightly. It is the biggest seva one who is blessed by the Guru can do, its not just about building a new building , get income and thats it job done. Gurudawaras about cleansing ones soul , going in dirty and coming out clean blessed with naam, from doing vichaar of Gurbani , contemplting on the shabad and putting it into action . The biggest job in the world , serving Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth sahib ji maharaj , with pure sharada , love a sense of purpose to serve humanity , with no personal intentions. I believe one can be walking around , if blessed with love , walking around reciitng Gurbani , an inspiration to others Jagraj Singh did a talk on Gurudawaras absolutely opened my eyes and how true it is today .