Log in

User Name

Password

Remember Me?

Lost Password Recovery Form

If you have forgotten your username or password, you can request to have your username emailed to you and to reset your password. When you fill in your registered email address, you will be sent instructions on how to reset your password.

it can happen here...

Thought I'd post a bit of inflammatory comments. I don't often watch TV (don't have cable at home) and so news reach me through the net (when I bother) or through family and friends and occasionally I see it on TV when a guest in someones house. Quite often the news is about how USA is slowly becoming an imperial power or a fascist state. You read some posts around here and it's quite often something or other that the Dubya Administration is doing wrong. Well today I heard about Cheney's torture remark.

I don't know if anyone here has read it or not but I think that although people make fun of alarmists it's a good analogy to what is happening in US today. I'm not implying that it would happen exactly the same way as in the book, but I am saying that believing that it can't happen here is like putting on a pair of blinders and chanting to yourself that everything is ok while the freedoms that US is founded upon are ever so slowly being pulled from under you. Anyway enough ranting... read the book if you like.

yeah well whether its a 'law' or not.. things happen that will happen.. and so long as no one knows, no reason to bring it up.. besides, ironically, most of the 'news' thats reported to the public is all tainted and controlled anyway.

it's only after you've lost everything, that you're free to do anything..

yeah well whether its a 'law' or not.. things happen that will happen.. and so long as no one knows, no reason to bring it up.. besides, ironically, most of the 'news' thats reported to the public is all tainted and controlled anyway.

de·moc·ra·cy (d-mkr-s) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
1.Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2.A political or social unit that has such a government.
3.The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4.Majority rule.
5.The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

de-ceit [di-seet] Pronunciation Key –noun
n. adj. de-ceit-ful
1. the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating: Once she exposed their deceit, no one ever trusted them again.
2. an act or device intended to deceive; trick; stratagem.
3. the quality of being deceitful; duplicity; falseness: a man full of deceit.

Won't an impeachment take a long time? Bush has only two years left anyway. Besides, I'm pretty sure no one's in a hurry to be the next president of USA right now, I can't imagine how anyone can properly resolve the Iraqi quagmire.

Person A: How else can we get needed information from terrorists then to use persuasive methods which (mentally) break them, allowing us to extract valuable information which can help save the lives of innocents?

Person B: Torture is inhumaine and has no place in a civilized society. You can't defeat fire with fire.

Both people are right. This is a sad reality. Choose your poison, both opinions lead to the death of innocent lives.

Person A: How else can we get needed information from terrorists then to use persuasive methods which (mentally) break them, allowing us to extract valuable information which can help save the lives of innocents?

Person B: Torture is inhumaine and has no place in a civilized society. You can't defeat fire with fire.

Both people are right. This is a sad reality. Choose your poison, both opinions lead to the death of innocent lives.

Very true. But I think a happy medium would at least be a better path. You know, making torture an absolute last resort and not trying to hide it. If it wouldn't make the process take four times as long, have an impartial commitee judge if it's necessary. Something to make it less seem like we're (A) doing it to any enemy soldier we find for the hell of it, behind everyones backs, (B) or letting vital information slip away. Of course, as far as our government is concerned, even the idea of seeing the world in more than black and white is somehow treason.

de-ceit [di-seet] Pronunciation Key –noun
n. adj. de-ceit-ful
1. the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating: Once she exposed their deceit, no one ever trusted them again.
2. an act or device intended to deceive; trick; stratagem.
3. the quality of being deceitful; duplicity; falseness: a man full of deceit.

Edit:
I think people have a way of making things black and white cutt and paste... But human nature is just a big gray spot. Sometimes bad things happen to other people for a means to an end... sometimes their right in doing so because of circumstance and other times their wrong.... What we see as right one day we can totally disagree with the next. In politics and opinion... I think you walk a fine line of choosing the lesser of 2 evils.

A lot of people use the president as the poster boy for the supposed problems we are having in this country. One thing about this book though is it was written in 1935, when the president (I'm not to sure) could be voted into office more than twice. If it was like that today, then ofcourse I think it could be possible we would end up like that. I'm not one of those people who plug their ears and sing to themselves, but I try not to take things to far on either side because at the moment I'm very skeptical of any groups intentions.

Besides, it's only 2 more years, I'm sure we'll be fine. But, it's good to have all these people covering these issues. It keeps people on their toes, just cut it out with smear campaigns already and provide some more objective/thoughtful information for a change, damn. It's like little kids on television repeatedly calling each other stupid.

Person A: How else can we get needed information from terrorists then to use persuasive methods which (mentally) break them, allowing us to extract valuable information which can help save the lives of innocents?

False. Torture does not lead to "valuable information". Otherwise the witch trials in the Middle Ages proved undeniably that there really are witches and they served the Lord Satan and planned to take over the world or whatever. See torture DOES NOT WORK. People under duress give the answers that the torturer wants to hear. Besides true religious fanatics (or even other people truly devoted to a cause - soldiers in WW2 for example) would rather die (and many did) than reveal their plans, the 40 virgins and life everlasting with the creator are much more appealing than just a few weeks of torture to those who cannot be reasoned with. So are you willing to pay this price (since torture is not only traumatic for the subject but it also dehumanizes the torturer giving him psychological damage) for a false confession?