is that all you plan to do? just use it for practice? It might be loud enough for over drums depending on how hard and fast that guy is playing. but if you expect to play shows with it you are out of luck.

I don't know much about Mesa, but the Peavey 6505 is a two channel amp that shares the same EQ as opposed to the 6505+ which has separate EQ for both channels as well as one extra pre-amp tube.But none of those amps are 50 watts. The thing with 50 watt heads are that you can crank them to the limit and they will sound great, which you can't really do with +100 watt heads since they will become too loud.

Oh ok. Yeah I know theyre not 50 watts. I'm trying to figure out which tube amp I want. I want to get one and stick with it since it cost so god damn much. Need to see if i want 6505 or 6505+I'm going for a thrash, Trivium guitar sound so yeah.

is that all you plan to do? just use it for practice? It might be loud enough for over drums depending on how hard and fast that guy is playing. but if you expect to play shows with it you are out of luck.

Wrong.

I use A Marshall DSL 50 through an Emperor 4x12, and I have NEVER had to go past 12 o clock on the volume knob, and I have done everything from basement gigs to full-size venues with it. In a small room without a PA, it is more than loud enough, and if you are playing at a larger venue, most, if not all actual venues have a PA system and your cab gets mic'd, so even if you are playing a stadium, you will be heard.

As for Mesa, I can tell you that they have additional tubes called rectifier tubes in them. I do not know the purpose since I have never been a fan of the Mesa tone, so I have never looked into it.

As for 5150 and variants, what Porman said.

If you are going for the Trivium guitar tone, the 5150 or any of its variants is what you want.

Out of the hundreds of shows I've played most of the time the guitar was never miced out so I never consider that as an option ever. So it's not wrong, it's correct if you are depending on an outside source to be heard aside from your head and cab. So sorry, you are infact wrong as well.

From what I've seen in other forums, I'd say there are mixed opinions, but not so much about volume. More on the characteristics of the distortion. I suggest you look at a forum that are mainly for guitars, amps and such. You will probably get a much better answer there, more pure facts.

yeah my 60 watt fireball has no problems whatsoever cutting through live. granted I don't exactly play stadiums and stuff

50 watt tube power is a lot. krank it up to 10 throw a noise gate in front and start rocking. (4x12 cab IS reccomended for larger gigs, but you can make do with a 2x12 as well.. just dont EQ out the mids like oh so many metal guitarists do, the mids will be what most people are hearing.

I wonder about some of you, if you actually know how loud a 50 watt amp can be - Especially a tube amp.

Okay, to double your volume, you need 10 times the watts. A 100 watt amp is twice as loud as a 10 watt amp. it's only a bit louder than a 50 watt amp. Especially if you have a tube amp, a 50 watt head through some good speakers is LOUD. Your speakers are going to make a ton of difference also, mainly due to their sensitivity. Eminence Wizards have a 103 dB sensitivity - that is fucking loud. I built a 2X12 cab a while ago and put two of those in there, and the volume I can get with a 5-8 watt homemade tube amp would blow your mind. Seriously, people highly underestimate the volume of amps, especially tube amps. You can easily play damn near anywhere with a 50 watt head. I've played live with a 20 watt tube head, and it did fantastically well. I initially had the volume pretty much maxed, and I dialed it down to about 7 or 8 to blend better.

For the record, my old 120 watt tube head through a 4X12 cab registered over 132dB - that's obscenely loud. Yes, I measured it. Yes, that is literally painfully loud. And yes, playing some Aborted riffs, it's a lot of fucking fun

Another thing on tube amps: First off, if it's rated at 50 watts, that's not a definite number. Amplifier manufacturers like to round things to nice even numbers. Depending on the output tubes, that 50 watt head could put out 40 or as much as 60 watts, clean. Which leads me to my next little tidbit of fun information: A 100 watt tube amp is rated to produce 100 watts of clean power. Clean power. So what do we do? We crank the shit out of them, beyond clean output, until the power tubes are distorting also. If you dime a 5150 head, it's not going to put out 120 watts. It's going to be putting out notably more than that. Just as if you dime a 50 watt tube amp, I would not be surprised at all if it were putting out 60-65 watts. Through some good, efficient speakers, a 50 watt head is loud enough to give you hearing damage.

Just some food for thought, since I seem to love excessively long posts.

_________________Music For The Dead Death, doom, black, grind, and more. New albums out from Eternal Oblivion and Devourer in the Mist.

50 watt tube power is a lot. krank it up to 10 throw a noise gate in front and start rocking. (4x12 cab IS reccomended for larger gigs, but you can make do with a 2x12 as well.. just dont EQ out the mids like oh so many metal guitarists do, the mids will be what most people are hearing.

Excellent advice.

_________________Music For The Dead Death, doom, black, grind, and more. New albums out from Eternal Oblivion and Devourer in the Mist.

I wonder about some of you, if you actually know how loud a 50 watt amp can be - Especially a tube amp.

Okay, to double your volume, you need 10 times the watts. A 100 watt amp is twice as loud as a 10 watt amp. it's only a bit louder than a 50 watt amp. Especially if you have a tube amp, a 50 watt head through some good speakers is LOUD. Your speakers are going to make a ton of difference also, mainly due to their sensitivity.

is that all you plan to do? just use it for practice? It might be loud enough for over drums depending on how hard and fast that guy is playing. but if you expect to play shows with it you are out of luck.

Dude are you serious? A 50 watt head? That's more than enough for a show un-mic'd. I've seen a lot of people use 30w heads un-mic'd in a medium-sized venue and it was MORE than loud enough. Unless that Krank is unusually quiet (I have no experience playing one), it'll be more than loud enough. Contrary to popular belief, a 100 watt head is NOT twice as loud. Only a few decibals actually. The extra 50 watts benefits headroom.

I am serious. And it's from using multiple heads and cab combos in multiple bands and not just with me playing guitar. i've played close to 500 shows with various bands and I stand by what I stated. In my experience and opinion it's not goddamn loud enough.

I am serious. And it's from using multiple heads and cab combos in multiple bands and not just with me playing guitar. i've played close to 500 shows with various bands and I stand by what I stated. In my experience and opinion it's not goddamn loud enough.

Just joking dude, I don't doubt you. But seriously, I have no idea why this would be the case. A 50w is ridiculously loud man. A 100w really isn't that much louder. It's all about the head room. My buddy has played shows with a 25 (might hae been a 30w) Orange unmic'd. Filled up the room. It was a decent sized venue too.

Your image link didn't work. and that's fine orange is a different amp than alot. I get more annoyed that someone would think that I have no clue what I'm talking about. Doesn't matter what you said, with you.. you have seen and heard what is adequate and in my case over and over again it wasn't. Nothing you said it's going to negate my experience on the matter. I stated what my god honest developed opinion is.

That's what I'm saying! I know you meant head as in what's on my body. I'm forever right because I literally give no shits about anyone else's opinions or thoughts on 90% of everything. So when I say something isn't loud enough I don't even have to further explain ever again.

On the topic of amp wattage, I'm bothered occasionally that all the best sounding amps seem to be 100 or 120 watts. I just don't need that much power for recording, 5-10 is plenty for me. But find me a 5 watt 5150 or a 10 watt Engl Savage. I guess I could always build my own.

_________________Music For The Dead Death, doom, black, grind, and more. New albums out from Eternal Oblivion and Devourer in the Mist.

Your image link didn't work. and that's fine orange is a different amp than alot. I get more annoyed that someone would think that I have no clue what I'm talking about. Doesn't matter what you said, with you.. you have seen and heard what is adequate and in my case over and over again it wasn't. Nothing you said it's going to negate my experience on the matter. I stated what my god honest developed opinion is.

It said "you're doing it wrong". And you don't need to get all defensive dude. I've seen people gig with 25w unmic'd and it sounded totally fine. Whatever kind of experiences you've had, I've had many also. Unless you're playing stadiums, you can ABSOLUTELY gig with a 50w.

Speaking solely of wattage doesn't provide nearly enough information about an amp being loud enough for venues of a generalized size.

First, headroom is a factor as infinitenexus mentioned. Different cabs and speakers are a factor, as well as straight/angled cabs and tilting the speakers on a straight cab. While you risk unpleasant artifacting by going with any setup other than a properly installed PA system and a straight backline, situations are rarely ideal when you're not talking about professionally done productions, so you'll have to deal with that. For practice purposes, I always tilt a combo amp so it's more audible and the treble is clearer to us, but that won't work well in a sizable venue.

Secondly, distortion strongly affects loudness and decibel levels with the same wattage. If what you're sending to the speakers looks more like a wall than a waveform, that's going to sound louder.

Third, the format of the band and what frequency ranges you're trying to emphasize are going to affect perceived loudness. Higher frequencies are perceived as louder, and this will certainly be a difference when you have a death/thrash band like Porman, where the guitars have mid-range and high end crunch, or you go for dirty, sludgy tones like SLK seems to prefer - lowed tuned guitars can require greater wattage to achieve the desired levels of loudness, as human tolerance of lower frequencies is higher.

Finally, if you are going to be playing shows at venues that don't have a PA system, if you prefer DIY stuff, then learn as much as you can about everything I just said. The more you understand what you are working with, the easier it will be to control it.

And I never said you couldn't. I said it would sound like shit and it's not loud enough. And my point was just proven above. I don't have to go any further.

Ironic you post "you're doing it wrong" and you didn't even get it right. lol

Yea I understood you perfectly Porman.

That is ironic isn't it? And how was it proven above? An 100 watt amp is, on average, 3db louder than a 50w. It's not scientifically possible for a 50w to be too quiet when the difference is only a few dbs. It's only 12db quieter. The only thing that suffers is the headroom. Unless your drummer is absolutely milked, it should be more than enough power.

It also depends on the speaker cab you're running. If you put a 50w JCM 800 through a 4x12, even unmic'd, you're gonna bust ears. Perceived sound has to do with the amount of air that is manipulated.