Near the end of service of the MP 72's/75's car fleet,the cars got very basic maintenance,enough to stay FRA legal,but starting to have structure issues,then after the C-3's finally went in service,most of the cars were sent to equipment brokers for resale.Most of the cars sent to the brokers were scrapped after sitting unused for years.The 2 M-1's used as Sandite cars are hulks,most of the onboard gear was removed,and interior hacked to pieces for the Sandite equipment.The NYC Transit Museum has no building or secure yard location for their M-1 pair and the 2 coaches,and maybe too far gone for restorationThe RMLI M-1 pair will be a static display at Riverhead. If you have the time stop at the LIE(I-495) rest area,LOOK at the condition of the 2 ping-pongs there.

For better or worse,it's not always possible save everything due to lack of space,funding $$$$,and time/manpower needed to maintain.

God LI museums are horrible esp just throwing away one of the last M1 sets.

Just as a frame of reference-Please re-read who owns the m1 set of cars-NOT OBRM or RMLI. It's the NY Transit Museum who should have never asked for them. They have no place to put them.As for scrapping willy nilly, almost all of the equipment is owned by the LIRR/MTA and they have rules and regulations imposed upon them by laws.There is a set of M1's at RMLI.You can't save everything! Sad, but true, especially given that folks do not contribute enough to their preservation/restoration/upkeep.MADDOG

Backshophoss wrote:Near the end of service of the MP 72's/75's car fleet,the cars got very basic maintenance,enough to stay FRA legal,but starting to have structure issues,then after the C-3's finally went in service,most of the cars were sent to equipment brokers for resale.Most of the cars sent to the brokers were scrapped after sitting unused for years.The 2 M-1's used as Sandite cars are hulks,most of the onboard gear was removed,and interior hacked to pieces for the Sandite equipment.The NYC Transit Museum has no building or secure yard location for their M-1 pair and the 2 coaches,and maybe too far gone for restorationThe RMLI M-1 pair will be a static display at Riverhead. If you have the time stop at the LIE(I-495) rest area,LOOK at the condition of the 2 ping-pongs there.

For better or worse,it's not always possible save everything due to lack of space,funding $$$$,and time/manpower needed to maintain.

Hoss?no pings on the LIE-There was only the one unit on the east bound side and it was scrapped quite a few years ago. The state offered it up to OBRM, but we declined.MADDOG

Remember that car was not in great condition the last time I was on the Island(that was at least 5 years ago),I had always thought therewere 2 Pings saved,the other was at another "rest area" on the island.At least there were some rare parts saved from the cars to be scrapped.The Transit Museum NEVER had plan for their pair of M-1' s(of public knowledge) nor any kind of secure Facility to display them.The Subway cars and Busses are housed around the the subway system shops and bus depots when not at Court St in Brooklyn.

Yet another doublepost! 2933, 2907, and the M1s were moved to wheelspur Sept 15, and were still there coupled to a gondola today. With permission i grabbed some pictures but my phone is dead. I cried tears, mainly at the fact the P72s used to be assigned to LIC. I hope they can save some others.

Parts from the p72s were picked clean to aid in attempting to preserve the cars that are left (at RMLI & OBRM). Museums always need help and cash to preserve what they have though.

The M3s were also picked clean by LIRR to keep other M3s running. Since the M3s are rather similar to M1s, I don't imagine any of that model will be preserved. Space is at a premium and the museums are always in need.

The "hoarding"of equipment without having a facility to actually preserve equipment needs to addressed.

It is very generous of any railroad to just give away a piece of equipment, especially cars with some sort of historical significance. However, as has been learned (hopefully): more is not always better.

Long Island has, by nature, a maritime climate. It takes a far greater toll on equipment than a non-maritime climate. The equipment stored in Riverhead, Greenport, and Oyster Bay really, before ANYTHING else, needs a roof over it. Period. There needs to be a controlled climate space for these pieces of equipment before anything can move forward.

Unfortunately, the fact that this is being figured out over 40 years from when the first pieces of equipment were donated is a tragedy. The factors involved as to why things went astray are plenty, on a business scale by poor initial long term planning, over ambitious dreams with what was available, etc. Things also did not fall into place as they could have, such as the ability to use the yard space that is available in Riverhead, acquiring an excess of operable equipment without the manpower to maintain/operate anything with them, etc.

Is any of this going to change? No, not really. With all do respect to the people who work on the equipment and take the time to help out, it will continue to be a losing battle with time.

With Riverhead soon to be a hot bed for rail activity not seen since potato farming was huge on the east end of Long Island, a direct answer needs to be brought to the table. Could a new location be acquired? Is there any outside the box thinking on how to make more with less? Can the equipment on the property not only survive, but prosper? I'd like to know, because everything I have seen, every mock-up, every thought, every idea, needs to be thought through to a lesser extent, with big ambitions stemming from that.

Until then, as much as I hate to say it, I just see these museums becoming history, not preserving it.

I completely agree. I think the main problem is the fact that RH simply has no space for any new buildings, and is too far out to generate much money. It is a losing battle, with a lot of corrosion and the classic long island NIMBYs. My post about anger at the scrapping wasn't at the actions of getting rid of them but was more at the inaction at preservation, especially looking at the coastal places where they can preserve this stuff- Danbury is a clear example, so is the Nagutuck. The worst part is the equipment that's OOS and would be perfect for preservation- Especially the Harold protects. I feel like Riverhead should be an annex, much like greenport is now, with the M1s, baggage and P72, and the RMLI should start looking further west. I wonder if PJ's old yard could work well, given the lack of use. I just wish it never came to this.

I feel like lack of funds is huge. There are plans for a shop building at riverhead, but it's an expensive plan. You can't easily compare LI's museums to others because many others actually have tracks to operate trains on, which brings in the badly needed revenue to fund everything else.

If any of this is going to survive, it's going to take a lot of work. That means people getting involved (I've been doing a tiny part).

Having a museum site further west would bring it closer to the city and potentially closer to people with deeper pockets who could get involved - but the real estate costs are also far higher the closer to the city you get. And honestly I'm not all that convinced there would be that many more people who would visit it unless there was some big value add.

It's really unfortunate because I think some of the old cars could have been set up as an east end excursion/dinner train and I think something like that could do well on the Riverhead to Greenport route. In particular, the 72s would be able to handle ground level stops, such as stopping at a winery for a tasting. Too bad it would take a few hundred thousand minimum to get something like that up and running.

Gentlemen, as a member of the Riverhead Museum I can tell you we have done the best we possibly can to afford the equipment a good future. The track is LEASED from the MTA, we don't own an inch of it. They gave us a quote for a few million to transfer the yard it's not donation-free. That's out of our limits especially with the focus on the #39 steam project. We'll paint, maintain and secure artifacts but as so long as we can't build over the track it'll rust out every time. Some of you might remember the MP54 coaches we had many years back, they were a victim of this very tragedy. I can't express enough how important it is to keep donating and lending your support when you can, it gives us the effort to work harder with better results.