Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

Apart from the fact that the political science types tend to believe that the debates don't ultimately shift votes, I think there's something important to remember about this debate: there's losing and then there's losing. On the style, Obama's performance was clearly underwhelming. But there was no real water cooler moment where he memorably lost control. He didn't make a big factual misstatement or gaffe. He didn't look at his wristwatch or sigh loudly a bunch of times or wear a lot of bad makeup. This performance was like one of Bush's from 2004, where Bush seemed generally uncomfortable and irritated with the whole process, but didn't do or say anything memorable that ultimately jeopardized his standing with the voters. I could see Romney getting a polling boost from this, but I can't imagine that Obama did lasting damage to himself, or that he's hemorrhaging votes because of this debate.

Originally Posted by chairmenmeow47

obama also didn't do a good job of talking about his accomplishments. he seemed to get a bit flustered talking about the affordable care act. i still don't understand romney's healthcare plan. if you leave it to the states, how are pre-existing conditions covered by his "plan"?!? and why can't romney or ryan effectively explain their tax plan?

and that moderator was shit. he had zero ability to cut off romney or keep the conversation within the allotted time frames.

The biggest failure of Obama's term is not explaining to the public what the ACA does. I will never understand why they invested so much in getting it done and so little in explaining it to people. When Romney hit Obama for spending two years on health care instead of jobs, I wanted so badly for Obama to pivot and explain why the economic security of so many American families is explicitly tied up in their health care expenses or lack of access to basic health care.

The sloppiness of the debate was partly Lehrer's fault, partly Obama's fault, and partly the fault of the new freewheeling format. It was wonky and I suspect over the heads of a lot of voters. Oddly, for all of the policy, they didn't talk about much of substance. They spent a half hour arguing like Graham Chapman and John Cleese about whether Romney's tax cut for the rich is a tax cut for the rich. Lehrer's greatest failing was not just that he lost control, but more that he asked bad questions and inane follow-ups. "Do you disagree with each other?" or "Obamacare: what do you guys think about it?" is no way to clarify the issues of a presidential campaign; it just allows both sides to retreat into rehearsed answers. It was also maddening that they spent the whole time in the "jobs" pod talking about tax cuts, and almost the reminder of the debating talking about entitlement spending and the deficit. The entire universe of "domestic issues" consisted of the stuff that consumes Washington op-ed columns. Really terrible.

The Romney statement on preexisting conditions is really misleading. He's basically endorsing a long-standing existing rule that says insurers can't discriminate on the basis of pre-existing conditions as long as the insured maintains continuous coverage, which of course doesn't benefit almost everyone that the ACA was designed to help in the first place.

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

I found it odd that he would mention PBS subsidies as a cut, when that money accounts for a freakishly small percentage of the budget. Not only will I mention a monetarily-insignificant cut, Mr. Moderator, but I'll mention one that will affect you personally.

Originally Posted by RandyInHeaven

Devin - how does it feel to know that there are still more women in the world that would fuck me at this very moment than would fuck you?

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

A female friend of mine made a fair point that this was a domestic policy debate and not a single policy regarding the "war on women" was discussed. Nothing about violence, equal pay, abortion rights, planned parenthood etc...

The next two are foriegn policy debates. Those should be interesting. Three hours of arguing nuance.

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

Originally Posted by faxman75

A female friend of mine made a fair point that this was a domestic policy debate and not a single policy regarding the "war on women" was discussed. Nothing about violence, equal pay, abortion rights, planned parenthood etc...

The next two are foriegn policy debates. Those should be interesting. Three hours of arguing nuance.

this pisses me off. maybe i'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but this is why i refuse to vote third-party. the republicans cannot keep winning. as a woman, i feel on the defensive here. i need access to birth control for medical reasons, but that shouldn't be the only justification for using birth control. people have sex and should have a say in when they allow a fetus to live in their body for nine months.

i forget where i read it or what the actual timeframe was (cool story, bro), but i read that republican members of congress submitted roughly 1,200 bills restricting women's access to health care and abortion over like a two year period or something. abortion aside, we cannot afford restrictions on birth control. if men had to take birth control instead of us women, i find it hard to believe this would ever be an issue. men would realize a baby at a young age could threaten their chance at success.

i've also seen a few good arguments that really bring the abortion issue home for me. many anti-abortionists view the argument as though abortion being illegal would mean there would be no abortions. we should protect uneducated and desperate women from hanger methods of birth control by providing a vetted and legal method of abortion. plain and simple. there is a reason we don't have fetus funerals or require all miscarriages to be reported for investigation and to create a death certificate. a first-term fetus is not the same as a life that can live on it's own outside the mother's body.

Originally Posted by malcolmjamalawesome

It's when we discuss Coachella that we are at our collective dipshittiest.

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

Originally Posted by HotHamWater

I found it odd that he would mention PBS subsidies as a cut, when that money accounts for a freakishly small percentage of the budget. Not only will I mention a monetarily-insignificant cut, Mr. Moderator, but I'll mention one that will affect you personally.

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

So is it possible, just possible, that maybe Obama was somewhat distracted because they scheduled the debate on the night of his 20th anniversary? Because I thought that was kinda fucked up.

I doubt it. It is probably a fair assessment to say that being the president and finding time to prepare for last night's debate is very different from the challenger, who had plenty of time to prepare for it. And I can appreciate the concept of Obama's "long game" in his management of both his presidency and his campaign for re-election. But fuk's sake he needs to show up at the next debate with a fire up his ass. Romney lied his ass off last night... and sounded good doing it. I doubt he'll try the same thing again. Obama needs to ram his A game down Mitt's throat. No prisoners. No remorse. Mitt won't go quietly. There's too much at stake.

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

As I'm learning energy policy this semester, it scares me to think of the regulations that sMitt Romney wants to get rid of...

Romney says "that EPA is out of control for making stricter regulations", these restrictions insure people's safety. Coal Sludge has killed tons of people just from cleaning coal. Not to mention the changing of the Clean Water Act to help coal production on mountain top mining...

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

So the sense I'm getting is that the popular takeaway from the debate 24 hours later is drifting from "Obama got his ass kicked" to "Romney wants to fire Big Bird." Seriously. PBS is dominating Twitter and there are like five or six Politico stories about it now.

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

This shit reminds me of when my 4 year old nephew loses to me in a race across the yard, he always insists that it was a tie. Oh wait never mind this isn't even close, at least he says it's a tie and doesn't accuse me of cheating.

Re: Fuck the Republican Party.

The republicans have now reached a point of pure meltdown. Wherein lies and deception are now unabashed, full-blown tactics among their campaigns. Every republican that has any semblance of a soul or conscious has clearly left the building.

Actual text on the sample ballot of the description of Prop 37 states:

"Proposition 37. Genetically engineered foods. Labeling. Initiative statute. Requires labeling of food sold to consumers made from plants or animals with genetic material changed in specific ways. Prohibits marketing such food, or other processed food, as "natural." Provides exemptions. Fiscal Impact: Increased annual state costs from a few hundred thousand dollars to over $1 million to regulate the labeling of genetically engineered foods. Additional, but likely not significant, governmental costs to address violations under the measure."