I have a daughter. Her world is young and innocent, brimming with a child’s intensity of feeling — ecstasy and despair are infinitely magnified when confined to only four years of life. Though to an adult her joys are simple and her sorrows trivial, every one of her tears hits me with equal weight, no matter their cause.

As of yet, she has no notion of what it means to be a woman in today’s society, much less in the church.

But I fear that day.
She is still on a first-name basis with Jesus. The words Lord, Christ, Savior, or Judge are irrelevant to their relationship. His love encompasses her entire knowledge of the gospel.

I fear the day that changes.

The words misogyny, sexism, chauvinism, hierarchy, rights, and inequality remain beyond her reach, for now. But like all children her age, she is beginning to grasp the concept of what is “fair.” She is especially sensitive to the issue whenever it involves her younger brother. This is why your words have troubled me so:

You will understand your roles and your responsibilities and thus will see no need to lobby for rights.

I fear the day her simple concepts of Jesus and “fair” come into conflict. They really shouldn’t have to. She knows I will always love her as much as her younger brother. She knows that, in addition to my spoken assurances of love, I will never treat her as less than her brother, merely because she was born my daughter instead of my son.

But will she always know this about Jesus?

I am all too aware of our constant protestations of how important women are in the church. I wish I did not feel like we are trying to convince ourselves. I do not believe that Jesus would want my daughter to have to choose between Him and her self-respect.

Thanks for this. That sentence really bothers me. Especially since it doesn’t help anyone.

It makes those who see a need for change feel like they’re under attack. Almost all of them will react like most of us do when attacked–they’ll become more defensive. Some who were on the fence on some of these issues will feel the unfairness of the attack and act (and change their opinions) accordingly.

Many of those who aren’t lobbying for rights will feel a smug satisfaction about how righteous they are, and will thus become more prideful.

Again, a real lose/lose statement.

I hope Sister Dalton gets asked to say a prayer in the next General Conference. I imagine that could be a bit awkward…

Orwell, your daughter is fortunate indeed to have such a caring dad. But please be sure to save some tears for the pains that she may suffer at the hands of those who think that they are practicing egalitarianism and wouldn’t dream of themselves as sexist.

When she goes to the middle school career fair, she may find that full-time parenthood is not represented as a career option. That may be because, like our local school, the administration does not consider it a career option. Hmmn. Most of those who serve in the military only do so for a few years, just like most of us do full-time parenting, but the military recruiters are allowed to be there.

In high school, she probably won’t be taught the traditionally female skills of her foremothers, which could help her be a better homemaker and save her family a lot of money. Home economics is no longer taught in most schools. And it is looked down on as being inferior to traditionally male skills. However, she may learn some of that in the church’s Young Women program.

In grad school, I had a classmate who was flushed out of the program because of her failure to meet the standards set out. She was pregnant, and suffering with nausea and vomiting. The female faculty looked upon her with contempt, as a failure to the cause. (I thought of my undergrad at BYU and the sympathetic male professors who routinely gave me incompletes so I could finish term papers when un-pregnant.)

Just a few years ago, I was considering two paid jobs. Both of the interviewers assured me that the work was part-time (so I could be home after school with my kids and help with ailing parents). I turned one down, showed up for the other, and was informed it was gong to be fulltime. “Your children don’t really need you as much as you think,” the woman informed me. “This is really in your best interest. You’ll see.” That woman looks upon herself as a feminist, and thought of herself as saving me from my Mormon brainwashing. She showed no respect for my agency, or my ability to know what is best for my family at a given point in time. (Yes, I was stupid not to get it in writing.)

So yes, there is pain and judgment for women, and not all of it from the church.

So yes, there is pain and judgment for women, and not all of it from the church.

Naturally — nobody ever said things were perfect in the rest of the world, far from it. The problem I have with Pres. Dalton’s talk is that church is the last place I want my daughter learning that these things are okay… that “this is the way God wanted things so I should know my place and keep quiet.”

(I’m not being facetious. The church considers GA talks in localized environments, like stake conferences, to only apply to the localized setting. If someone said something controversial in a BYU devotional and it wasn’t reported on, does it apply to me or my daughter?)

I think a devotional at BYU where the student body is international is quite different from a stake conference. I knew students from well over a dozen different countries during my time there, and that was entirely without being involved in any kind of international club or organization.

My wife went to Ricks and the vast majority of her roommates there were from foreign countries (a pattern that strangely continued, although to a lesser degree, once she got to BYU).

Definitely not like a stake conference.

But even in General Conference we often hear references to purely American things–football (usually not even referred to as “American football”) scouting, etc. We (including many of our leaders) are clearly having a hard time getting used to the fact that we are an international church.

I should add that I don’t think a figure like Sister Dalton carries enough authority to, by herself, prohibit “lobbying for rights.” Some early church leaders didn’t like smallpox vaccines (ironically, one very well may have become the prophet had he carried a different opinion on the matter and not died of smallpox at a very young age) but that doesn’t mean the church itself was against vaccines (and in fact we have pro-vaccine comments from other church leaders of that era). For right now, until we have a more authoritative answer (GC, First Presidency Message, even Church Newsroom) I feel safe saying that’s her own opinion, it was a single sentence in a much larger talk, and it can safely be ignored.

Unless we don’t believe that church leaders have the right to state their own personal opinion on matters…

I’m bothered by the constant theme of battle, race, etc. in our church. Work. We are encouraged to work hard enough to save ourselves and the focus on competing and comparison misses the point, I believe.

I can’t say it right, I know, but that bothers me. I wish we could be more zen in our gospel experience.

Her comment about lobbying seems pointed and I can see your concern.

The Stepford quality of our speakers bugs me. I don’t think God would talk to us like that if He were a speaker at BYU. I don’t think He would be saying “do this, win this, you’re a leg up on the rest of the world who aren’t Mormons.” I think He would be saying “I love all of you so much.”

re: Stepford quality of speakers. I think I agree. Is that due to a Utah cultural thing?

I’m thankful for our more dynamic speakers. Pres Hinckley got more dynamic (ie, less monotone, less Utah lilt or sing-songy) and relaxed/homey in his later years. I’m thankful for Pres Uchtdorf’s speaking style. I loved Cheiko Okazaki (pls forgive if I spelled that wrong). I’ve always loved Pres Monson’s story-telling and humor. (My favorite story is the one about a child’s prayer for Sister Lister, Henny Penny, and Turkey Lurkey.)

I don’t know, Book. We have “normal” speakers in my ward more than the sing-song deal. I think a lot of what’s off in our church comes from the fear of being oneself. When we get a leader who’s not afraid, people flock to them. You know, though, in other churches, the speakers are trained and usually have some kind of inborn talent calling them to the ministry.

I guess we all do the best we can.

I “woulda felt better” if Sister Dalton had said something like “sometimes policies or leaders can make members feel excluded, ignored or unimportant. We hear the heartache behind what sometimes appears to be frivolous or attention-seeking calls for change in policy. Policy is not the same thing as doctrine and there is no need for an adversarial approach to policy change. We are constantly and prayerfully considering what the Lord would have us do to help bring souls to Christ, even in small organizational steps. We love all of you and wish to exclude no one. Let us work together.”

[…] without actually acknowledging the existence of the organization doing the lobbying. Many people were not happy with the reminder that women should be invisible — and even found faithful Mormon […]

Has it occurred to any one that what President Dalton was trying to say is that the rights already exist, we just need to take advantage of them? I am a 52 year old life long member. I have attended the LDS Church in 3 countries, 8 Stakes, 8 Wards and 3 Branches, from Southern California to Germany. I have never, EVER felt there were any rights I didn’t have. I have never seen women discrimated against in any of these church units, they have always been fully involved in all aspects of the church except for actual Priesthood Meetings. I wasn’t discouraged from joining the Army at 17, I wasn’t discouraged from going to work when I had children at home, I wasn’t told I should have more children than I thought prudent, I have never been told to unquestioningly obey my husband or church leaders at any level, have have never felt it implied to “shut up and know my place”. I was always encouraged to BE ALL YOU CAN BE. I have always tried to follow the examples of our sisters in the earlier years of the church and my 33 year old daughter in Utah feels the same. It would be nice, however, for a woman to give a prayer at General Conference.