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Hi Has any one started or is starting teh VET HND in electrical engineering course, i've just got my first study package for Business management methods and the books the suggest are quite old and hard to come by. Can anyone let me know reading material to help me with this module.

I finished both my HNC and D on the Blackburn VETS course about 12 months ago - I remember the Business Management module, it was *dire*. You're right that the material is old and dusty, I don't think the tutor has bothered to do anything with it for years, and it's as dull as ditch water.

You won't need any text books; if you can read, add and subtract, and have even an ounce of common sense you won't find it at all difficult (lengthy and boring yes, difficult no).

I remember it took me a lot of time to grind through all the required bits and pieces, with the various activities in the first half then the essay section at the end my submission was almost 10,000 words in total. I wouldn't have minded except I didn't learn a damn thing, just jumped through a lot of hoops for no worthwhile gain (you can tell I'm still bitter, can't you! ).

If you're just starting your course then I would save your enthusiasm and proper research for the more demanding, interesting and worthwhile modules that you've got coming up. They do get a lot better, honestly! There are some great lecturers and excellent modules on your programme, you've just started off with a lame duck.

The materials in the study pack should get you through the workbook activities (they've sent you the DVD, have they?), and then you're going to want to do a little research for the essay bit at the end, but that's just general engineering ethics, health and safety legislation, and rudimentary management theory (motivation etc).

Your local library will have texts that will help you with that sort of thing and there's plenty of good quality stuff available online. For a start, the Royal Academy have a statement of ethical principles and many case studies here:

The Health and Safety Exec. have lots of guides online that will provide info on relevant legislation, and they also have a very useful database of past convictions, detailing cases of industrial failings which have resulted in injury and prosecutions. Citing one or two of those will show research on your part. See here for a start:

Also, join the the IMechE (student membership is free). I know you've said you're Electrical, but the IMechE library is a fantastic engineering resource, providing instant online access to all kinds of professional journals, papers and conference proceedings, all of the highest quality and difficult (i.e. EXPENSIVE!) to access elsewhere. They also do free postal loans, so you can select actual books from their library and they will box them up and post them out to you. You'll be able to get titles only stocked in the very best academic libraries that way, and it will only cost you the price of postage to send them back. I'm a big fan, and the facility has been a great help though my HNC/D and B.Eng.

Just shout up if you have any specific questions about your Business Manglement module, or others in fact, I've done many of the same courses you'll be doing and will gladly help where I can.

Many thanks for the info, i didnt recieve a DVD just the workbook but will ask if it should of been sent it as some sections i've completed no problem(basic adding and sbtracting) its the wordy bits "like types of resources" i could probably role off a load but just want to check that i'm heading down the right road as i have been known to head in various wrong directions lol.

Hmm, it's possible my memory is playing tricks on me, and there is no cd/dvd for the business management module. There are accompanying disks for several of the courses, like instrumentation and control principles for example, but maybe it was just the printed materials for business.

When are you attending for your first intensive week long courses? I'm guessing they have you booked in for Analytical Methods or the bridging maths module first? They are both well delivered and very worthwhile, you'll learn plenty. It will be a tough week mind you, plenty of work and stress, but you'll know a hell of a lot more come Saturday!

I start analytical methods in november the design and project in december, looking forward to the week block courses as i'm quite busy at work and this will give me a chance to concentrate soley on the course while i'm there, hopefully ill of eaten away a big chunk of the Bussiness methods so i wont be to disheartened when i go down to blackburn Do you remember any cheap B&B's?

That's one thing I can't help with, B&B's. When I'd just started my course I tried a couple of the places very near to the college on Preston New Road, they were cheap but really pretty grim and I wouldn't recommend them :/

My job means it doesn't matter where in the UK I live so shortly afterwards I moved to Blackburn and didn't need to try any others. There's not much near to the college, but no doubt there's decent stuff if you are willing to drive 10 or 15 minutes away.

Remind me sometime and I'll mark you up a map of the closest/best/free parking spots near college.

When you did the ethics assay did you have ceratin books reading material that you could advise to use? the questions with regards to the essay are around technology, was this information technology or technolgical advances in the work place. Any help would be appreciated as getting hold of the tutor isnt the easiest ive found

When I took the module the essay section was three questions, dealing with engineering ethics, legal issues applied to engineering, and management/motivation. The last one must also have mentioned changing technology, because I've spoken about that in my answer.

I don't remember exactly what the questions were, as I've only got my submission here now, not the course materials.

All the references I used were online. I started with the statement of ethical principles published by the Royal Academy of Engineering at the link I gave above, and also used some snippets from a speech given by John Uff, a professor of engineering law at King's College, to the Lloyds Register.

You'll be able to find that via google and there's also lots more at the IMechE online library (free to join as a student).

I waffled on about how the technology we apply as engineers has the potential for both positive and negative consequences, referencing a 2009 Amnesty International report on environmental and humanitarian damage caused in the Niger Delta by the engineering activities of Royal Dutch Shell, the oil conglomerate. Again, that was available online.

The HSE website (link up-thread ^^) has lots of good info and resources which will be useful if you are going to talk about the type of law which is applicable to the engineering profession here in the UK.

Remember that you don't need to go crazy on this, it's just a single HNC module and you've already had to grind through that dire workbook thing. Just pick a couple of topics from your own work and experience which you can adapt to the questions at hand.

Finding it difficult to reach the tutor doesn't surprise me, if it is still Graham Mather. Others may have a different experience, but I found him to be utterly useless.

Don't worry, there are many other tutors there who are much more professional in their approach, and who will provide better advice and support for your other modules.