I live in San Bernardino County want to get a CCW. The problem is my current handgun is a Baby Eagle and it's huge and weighs a ton, plus has some reliability issues. So I need to get a handgun that could be used for EDC. I want a gun with a safety, and I have become very fond of .40 S&W. Those are my preferences and factor into your mission, should you choose to accept it. I'm not asking you to pick my firearm, I'm asking you to give me suggestions to test out.

The features I am looking for:

Reliable - Obviously has to have proven reliability
.40 S&W - yes I know a 9mm and .45 can kill people too, just humor me
Suitable size for CCW - but not tiny, I have big hands
Frame-mounted safety - slide-mounted safeties tear up my hands and piss me off. Decockers bug me too.
Affordable - the fact that there are reliable handguns for $500 makes it hard for me to see spending $1,000
Available 9mm conversion - nice to have for cheap plinking

For the record, I am going to check out XD and Glock as well. I have shot them before but it's been a few years. But after reading a "drawstring caught in the trigger while re-holstering" ND story a while back the idea of no safety has left me a little uncomfortable. Please don't try to convert me in this thread. It's just how I feel.

G60

09-23-2011, 10:30 AM

M&p 40c.

Shooting_Laser

09-23-2011, 10:33 AM

Ruger SR40C is another, but don't know of an existing conversion kit.

ZombieTactics

09-23-2011, 10:33 AM

I would say the Ruger SR40 or SR40c fit your needs quite well.

Head416

09-23-2011, 10:37 AM

I'll add that to my short list, thanks!

Turo

09-23-2011, 10:38 AM

If you really want a safety, the M&P is a great gun and you can't go wrong. When I got my Glock in .40 S&W, I tried out the big 3 XD, Glock, and M&P. The M&P didn't really fit my hand as well as the other two, and the Glock shot for me better than the XD. But both of those are entirely personal fit issues for me, and nobody else.

As for uneasiness about no manual safety, those can fail too. The entire issue can be completely avoided with vigilantly adhering to firearm safety, and watching what you are doing when reholstering. I know you don't want to be converted, but seriously, try carrying an unloaded 1911 or manual-safety type gun in a holster all day and see how many times the trigger gets pulled. Unless you've got an unsafe holster or like to stick your finger in the trigger guard, it's never going to go off.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 10:40 AM

Consider that the San Bernardino County Sheriff's carry either the Glock 17 or Glock 21.

For the record, I am going to check out XD and Glock as well. I have shot them before but it's been a few years. But after reading a "drawstring caught in the trigger while re-holstering" ND story a while back the idea of no safety has left me a little uncomfortable, well don't read the story of the AD in the shooters leg running a 1911 (with 2 safeties) out of a serpa then..... http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=479532

Besides you aren't going to use a stupid appendix carry drawsttring thing anyway, get a good IWB holster. My kid Brian1979 got one of those things, ran it for a while, and it's crap. Then he tried to make it click the trigger, it didn't.

paul0660

09-23-2011, 10:42 AM

I think you are right about the safety, or DA/SA solution to mishaps. Bummer that the .40 CZ compact isn't available new now. The Rami is available, but it does leave a pinky hanging unless you have a 14 round mag with the right floorplate.

Head416

09-23-2011, 10:44 AM

I totally understand that, and I keep my trigger straight along the frame until it's time to shoot. I do not think anybody should rely on the safety, but should keep their finger off the trigger and keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. I can however, think of scenarios that might cause a ND even when following those rules.

Just one example of an ND where the guy did NOT put his finger on the trigger: He was holstering his weapon, finger off the trigger. His jacket had a pull string around the bottom that got caught in the trigger and fired a round. This is a freak accident and I know millions of Glocks, XDs, M&P's, etc are carried every day with no problem. But this possibility would be in the back of my mind, and makes me a little uncomfortable. I'm sure the day will come when I'll get one of these guns, just not this next one.

paul0660

09-23-2011, 10:48 AM

see how many times the trigger gets pulled.

I love that argument. Works for seat belts and hard hats too.

Turo

09-23-2011, 10:48 AM

I totally understand that, and I keep my trigger straight along the frame until it's time to shoot. I do not think anybody should rely on the safety, but should keep their finger off the trigger and keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. I can however, think of scenarios that might cause a ND even when following those rules.

No worries, just trying to ease some uneasiness :p.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 10:51 AM

Head416, most people that shoot themselves make up some bullsh*t to cover for it, instead of just saying they screwed up. The only real saftey is between your ears.

Also the deputy who inspects your weapon, whatever platform that is, will really only be familiar with the Glock. Cops like things to be simple, ie, oh, a Glock 17, good choice. Just saying.

Head416

09-23-2011, 11:07 AM

Also the deputy who inspects your weapon, whatever platform that is, will really only be familiar with the Glock.

Now THAT'S funny!

G60

09-23-2011, 11:12 AM

Also the deputy who inspects your weapon, whatever platform that is, will really only be familiar with the Glock. Cops like things to be simple, ie, oh, a Glock 17, good choice. Just saying.

What are you talking about, and why? What relevance does that have to the conversation?
You really think a LEO won't be familiar with a weapon with a thumb safety?

Jesus, the FUD that some people spread on here is outrageous.

Tiberius

09-23-2011, 11:26 AM

That's a tough bill to fill, in .40. I happen to agree with you on safeties - I much prefer having one. Most here don't, I know. It's a personal preference.

For off the shelf and available, the SR40c seems like one of the few choices. I think there's one Kahr that comes with a factory safety, but I don't know if it's in .40.

One oddball option would be a Glock 27, with an after-market Commonelli (?) or something like that safety. It's a kit that puts a little frame-mounted - I think - safety on a Glock. It doesn't void the warranty and seems to be OK with Glock. I saw a Glock for sale with one here once. You probably want to have an armorer do it.

You might want to reconsider on the .40 - the LC9 has a safety, but is a 9 with, according to many, a horrible trigger. The CZ Rami is a 9. The M&Ps are nice but last I heard the ones with safeties were off-roster so not available here unless you go with the single-shot option.

Does that Beretta Px4 subcompact, which is also off-roster, come in a .40? I don't know. A USPc might be an option, but they're pricey and not really all that compact.

If you find the answer - post it!

T

zfields

09-23-2011, 11:34 AM

Please don't try to convert me in this thread. It's just how I feel.

Christ people. Obviously he doesnt want a glock.

Tripper

09-23-2011, 11:36 AM

there is no reason to 'quickly' holster a weapon
take your time re-holstering, make sure there are no obstructions, and it wont discharge.
thousands of cops nationwide, do it daily, and there has not been thousands of accidental discharges, only a very few.
it comes down to training, it can happen with a manual safety as well, if you dont train properly, and forget to place it on safety.
still, there is no reason whatsoever to re-holster quickly no matter what gun you have.

@g60, i know cops that have no clue where the safety is on their glock, its the only gun they have, and they only have that one cause its their job and part of the uniform.
not all cops are familiar with all guns just because they are cops, his statement holds some validity, due to the fact most academies train with glocks, agencies issue them, and a good number of officers have likely never handled any other type firearm.
I'll concede it might be diff from where your at, but not all cops are gun enthusiasts thats a fact, so it stands to reason they would be more comfortable/familiar with a gun similar to the one they are issued as opposed to something they have no experience with.

I forgot to mention - the Springfield XD line has compact and subcompact versions, includes .40, and has a grip safety.

Tripper

09-23-2011, 11:49 AM

the kimber sub compacts are nice too, but its 45, so not sure your interested in that.
xd sub is still bigger than a glock i think?
suitable size for CCW is highly dependent upon a number of things, wear the right clothes, and you can conceal a full size pistol, some folks can conceal a full size 1911 in an outside waist band holster. its your size and clothing to a very large degree.

with your baby eagle, use that to check if you can conceal it easily by changing your clothing, or the placement of the holster, you may not ultimately carry it, but you can use it for reference to size. wear patterned out shirts, it helps break up any printing that might occur, and makes it less noticeable. a leather vest works wonders for some reason. try your eagle holstered under a vest

Tripper

09-23-2011, 11:53 AM

oh, go to a range nearby that rents firearms, handle all of them, at least then you'll know if you like the feel of a certain one, then you can go from there for selection.
if you like the feel of your eagle, maybe try a sig, at least to see if you like the feel, just not sure what they have for compact/sub-compact

zfields

09-23-2011, 11:53 AM

Id go with the CZ75 compact before the RAMI if you have large hands. the RAMI is tiny.

maybe check out the p07, it would have to be single shot though. Its a nice size between a compact and a full size.

BunnySlayer

09-23-2011, 12:10 PM

I forgot to mention - the Springfield XD line has compact and subcompact versions, includes .40, and has a grip safety.
The springer EMP series has both a grip safety and frame mounted thumb safety like a 1911 and they make one in forty. Dont know if its available in california yet though.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 12:12 PM

What are you talking about, and why? What relevance does that have to the conversation?
You really think a LEO won't be familiar with a weapon with a thumb safety?

Jesus, the FUD that some people spread on here is outrageous.

Well, I wouldn't know how it is up in Hanford, so you shouldn't pretend like you know how it rolls down here, but the deputies that do weapons inspection for San Bernardino are not gun guys or regular shooters, and like I said earlier, the Dept issues G17's and G21's. Most carry compact Glocks or S&W J frames for backup. They are not familiar with all guns. I was there one time, a guy was trying to add a Taruas P99, the kind that goes from 1911 engagement to decocker mode, and 5 deputies looked at it and still didn't understand. I asked if it was ok for me to show them the modes it operated in, and they finally signed it off.

I only know one Deputy in San Bernardino who carries a 1911, and he is a helicopter driver. By the way, anything other than dept issue, has to be approved by the Dept armorer for use by deputies.

paul0660

09-23-2011, 12:15 PM

Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't held it yet, but I suspect it will feel uncomfortably small for me.

the Rami leaves the pinky hanging, for sure. I have a compact in 9mm, it is pretty perfect.

mjmagee67

09-23-2011, 12:16 PM

Sig DA/SA second best safety made, it is a committed trigger pull to get off that first shot!

Not putting your finger on the trigger until you are ready, willing, and able to shoot, the best safety.

zfields

09-23-2011, 12:18 PM

I only know one Deputy in San Bernardino who carries a 1911, and he is a helicopter driver. By the way, anything other than dept issue, has to be approved by the Dept armorer for use by deputies.

They usually like to be called pilots : )

paul0660

09-23-2011, 12:21 PM

They usually like to be called pilots : )

Depending on where they learned, they might prefer aviators.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 12:22 PM

zfields,They usually like to be called pilots : )

No this guy is no pilot, pilots can land without crashing. But he did manage to shoot down a Cessna 172 in the air while flying the helicopter, pure luck, he can't hit the A zone at 7 yards. Dumped a 13 round stick from a G21 into the guy, and a couple of rounds hit the engine.

paul0660

09-23-2011, 12:25 PM

zfields,They usually like to be called pilots : )

No this guy is no pilot, pilots can land without crashing. But he did manage to shoot down a Cessna 172 in the air while flying the helicopter, pure luck, he can't hit the A zone at 7 yards. Dumped a 13 round stick from a G21 into the guy, and a couple of rounds hit the engine.

I expect the officer handling the CCW apps is pretty familiar with a variety of firearms, even if the average cop is not.

Regardless, I found the comment funny.

Since you have never been through this process before, you will see. And I'm not trying to sell you on a Glock either. Let us know how it goes if you get thru the background ok. Just so you know, only the class taught at the academy is accepted by San Bernardino for CCW, nothing else. You can take a CCW class elsewehere, but that will be for your benefit only.

hkdad

09-23-2011, 12:29 PM

STI Shadow in .40

http://www.alliancze.com/stuff_novinky/shadow.png

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 12:36 PM

paul0660,So he had already missed with his .45?

He got the 1911 approved after this incident. Before that he carried the G21 on duty, and a G30 off duty. Interestinly enough, the 1911 had the Cylinder and Slide safety first kit installed, where you can lower the hammer and it acts like a ParaOrdinance double action 1911.

So this helicopter "driver" shot down a 172.......exactly why, and what would have happened if he had incapacitated the pilot and the 172 crashed into the proverbial schoolyard?

Next chapter please.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 12:39 PM

hkdad, STI's aren't on the DOJ list. Hi Points are though....

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 12:43 PM

paul0660, out in the middle of a desert, 35 miles from anything. Hey! San Bernardino Sheriff's Deputies don't go busting caps all over the place, well sometimes they do, but my friend did not have the observer with that day (observer carrys an MP5 and can be authorized to shoot from the air) Fleeing felon, drug deal, and I think he was hoping to dump the Cessna pilot, but like I said, he wasn't that good of a shot. Ground units cuffed him after it came down.

paul0660

09-23-2011, 12:49 PM

I would accept the tiniest attribution, because that strains all credibility. Not the accuracy part, (everyone gets lucky), but that LE would shoot at all. Without proof of that crime, and even with it, lethal force is a little over the top. Knowing a little about flying little airplanes, crossing the border without a customs clearance isn't a capital crime, and not listening to the freq LE is on certainly isn't. For a while, supposedly, going north to south WAS dangerous, but that was many years ago.

I am sure you know what I mean.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 12:57 PM

paul0660, no man, the ground units allready were in a shoot out after they started throwing out all the dope. One of the dips managed to get into the fixed wing. You don't need authorization for that.

hkdad

09-23-2011, 1:24 PM

wow you guys just....

:threadjacked:

good job!

IBTL...

Tripper

09-23-2011, 1:33 PM

Oh
My dad absolutely swears by his walther ppk/s
He gave me his many years ago and decided he couldn't live without it si went and bought another one
Its 380 but that might be a fit you like

Head416

09-23-2011, 1:44 PM

Went to San B Turner's on lunch. Handled the following:

M&P40c - this felt GOOD
Ruger SR40c - ditto, and I already have an SR9 so it feels very familiar
XD40 sub-compact - this felt pretty good, they didn't have the compact but I'd like to try it. They told me standard and sub-compact were the only two models, with nothing inbetween. Hey, they were courteous and friendly, you can't expect them to know everything I guess.
CZ-75... only full-sized available
Glock23 - when I raise it up the sights are aligned to shoot the ceiling, I'm guessing that's the grip angle people always talk about. And the magazine release seems to be designed with the intent of NEVER being used. I know I could get an extended one, but why bother when other guns are comfortable out of the box?
Sig 239 & 2022 - grip is okay, but length of pull is WAY too short.
PX4 Storm - felt good, but has a slide mounted safety! I hate those!

RE: Concealment - I'm 6'1" 225lb so I should be able to conceal anything that anybody else can. But, I would rather have something that can conceal easily with my current wardrobe vs wearing a vest all the time to cover a big ol hunk of steel. The only holster I have for it is a Fobus paddle holster and it doesn't do a good job of holding it close to the body, so I can't really practice with that. I don't want to spend the money on a quality holster right now for a gun I don't plan to carry concealed. I need to save up for ccw fees and new gun, and that's gonna take me a few months as it is.

I do appreciate everybody's input... even those that think everybody should just buy a Glock. ;)

zfields

09-23-2011, 1:48 PM

Hate to tell you, the 9mm and .40 XDs only come in Standard, tactical, and sub compact. The .45 comes in compact.\

For the CZ, if you liked the ergos, the Compacts feel pretty damn close to the same.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 1:52 PM

hkdad, not my fault. It's all them Glock haters and disbelievers. I'm just trying to tell the kid that SBCS got Glock, they know Glock, they like Glock, that's all. And about my flying friend, that shot down that fixed wing and all, who just happened to running a Glock 21,

Head416

09-23-2011, 1:54 PM

Hate to tell you, the 9mm and .40 XDs only come in Standard, tactical, and sub compact. The .45 comes in compact.\

For the CZ, if you liked the ergos, the Compacts feel pretty damn close to the same.

Yeah, I was just on their site discovering that. Lame.

paul0660

09-23-2011, 1:58 PM

paul0660, no man, the ground units allready were in a shoot out after they started throwing out all the dope. One of the dips managed to get into the fixed wing. You don't need authorization for that.

Bee.

Ess.

Sorry for the threadjack, head. There are plenty of options, and now your can narrow the field down a bit, having shot them.

I will say that I really like my XD 45 compact though. If the size fits you, its a great gun.

Its a slightly longer grip then the Subcompacts, and with the addition of the pearce pinky extention, its perfect for my hands, and Im not a small guy either.

furyous68

09-23-2011, 2:14 PM

Question for you guys.. sorry to initiate another thread jacking... with a compact or sub compact model pistol.. is there any advantage to having the barrel ported like a G21c to reduce barrel rise? I know there are companies that will port the barrel through the slide like the Glock.

zfields

09-23-2011, 2:15 PM

Question for you guys.. sorry to initiate another thread jacking... with a compact or sub compact model pistol.. is there any advantage to having the barrel ported like a G21c to reduce barrel rise? I know there are companies that will port the barrel through the slide like the Glock.

Porting only helps with hot loads really.

And porting out of a short barrel? Can you say fireball : )

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 2:17 PM

Yea dude, sorry I let paul0660 drag me into that Bee. Ess, as he calls it. If you don't believe in Glocks, and what Glocks can do, what can you say?

Anyway, Springfield XDs have a higher bore axis than a Glock or MP, and that adds to the recoil. Since you are large, there is no advanatage to a compact or subcompact gun. You will find that an OWB holster is pretty bad for concealment, but there are a number of good reasonably priced IWB Kydex holsters.

paul0660

09-23-2011, 2:21 PM

You will find that an OWB holster is pretty bad for concealment, but there are a number of good reasonably priced IWB Kydex holsters.

Wrong again.

Did school get out early today?

zfields

09-23-2011, 2:23 PM

Yea dude, sorry I let paul0660 drag me into that Bee. Ess, as he calls it. If you don't believe in Glocks, and what Glocks can do, what can you say?

Anyway, Springfield XDs have a higher bore axis than a Glock or MP, and that adds to the recoil. Since you are large, there is no advanatage to a compact or subcompact gun. You will find that an OWB holster is pretty bad for concealment, but there are a number of good reasonably priced IWB Kydex holsters.

Id love to see a news article, or anything relating to that.

furyous68

09-23-2011, 2:25 PM

Porting only helps with hot loads really.

And porting out of a short barrel? Can you say fireball : )

You could always create an accessory that holds a hotdog or bratwurst over the ports... you can work up an appetite defending yourself! :43:

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 2:35 PM

Wrong again. Did school get out early today?

What is your problem? Talking badly and attempting to be sarcastic to someone, especially as nice and helpful as I am.

Well you are only trying to jack the thread again, and I am not falling for it this time. Show everyone your OWB holster that is more concealable than your IWB.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 2:36 PM

Id love to see a news article, or anything relating to that.

I didn't read that, it's from shooting them side by side during a match. The bore axis is higher on an XD, thats all.

zfields

09-23-2011, 2:38 PM

I didn't read that, it's from shooting them side by side during a match. The bore axis is higher on an XD, thats all.

Im talking about the shot from a helio to a fixed wing.

I know it has a higher bore axis, ive shot both plenty.

Caseless

09-23-2011, 2:44 PM

Went to San B Turner's on lunch. Handled the following:

M&P40c - this felt GOOD
Ruger SR40c - ditto, and I already have an SR9 so it feels very familiar
XD40 sub-compact - this felt pretty good, they didn't have the compact but I'd like to try it. They told me standard and sub-compact were the only two models, with nothing inbetween. Hey, they were courteous and friendly, you can't expect them to know everything I guess.
CZ-75... only full-sized available
Glock23 - when I raise it up the sights are aligned to shoot the ceiling, I'm guessing that's the grip angle people always talk about. And the magazine release seems to be designed with the intent of NEVER being used. I know I could get an extended one, but why bother when other guns are comfortable out of the box?
Sig 239 & 2022 - grip is okay, but length of pull is WAY too short.
PX4 Storm - felt good, but has a slide mounted safety! I hate those!

RE: Concealment - I'm 6'1" 225lb so I should be able to conceal anything that anybody else can. But, I would rather have something that can conceal easily with my current wardrobe vs wearing a vest all the time to cover a big ol hunk of steel. The only holster I have for it is a Fobus paddle holster and it doesn't do a good job of holding it close to the body, so I can't really practice with that. I don't want to spend the money on a quality holster right now for a gun I don't plan to carry concealed. I need to save up for ccw fees and new gun, and that's gonna take me a few months as it is.

I do appreciate everybody's input... even those that think everybody should just buy a Glock. ;)

CCW choices - Your location means high temperature in summer...lots of sweating. All else being equal. I'd carry a polymer framed pistol. Less worrying over rusty frame over time.
From personal experience, most of my high round count handguns(9,000 rnds+ each) have hiccupped or broken small part at least once. The only high-round-count model that is still 99% reliable is my HK USP40. So I lean toward HK USP Compact and HK P2000 if an external safety is a requirement.

CCW OWB holster - Blade Tech Revolution line is an affordable good quality holster. Same price point as Fobus.
http://www.blade-tech.com/Revolution-Series-Holsters-c-328.html

HK Dave

09-23-2011, 2:47 PM

H&K USP 40 Compact ;)

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 2:55 PM

zfields, pm sent. trying to stay on the OPs subject.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 2:59 PM

Concealment - I'm 6'1" 225lb so I should be able to conceal anything that anybody else can.

I am 6'2" and 190 lbs and personally find an IWB to be far more comfortable and concealable than any OWB. These are the holsters that I use on a regular basis, FIST K1 Universal IWB for carry(sometimes for IDPA), Blade-Tech Straight Drop Kydex OWB for competition (USPSA, Steel Challenge and 3 gun).

http://www.californiavtxriders.com/phpBB3/gallery/image33603.jpg

http://www.californiavtxriders.com/phpBB3/gallery/image33598.jpg

ParanoidCivilian

09-23-2011, 2:59 PM

I would say get your LTC first or at least go through the approval process first then figure out which gun you want to get. I highly doubt you will get approved for a LTC when San Bernadino County is not a shall issue county. Good Luck.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 3:04 PM

I would say get your LTC first or at least go through the approval process first then figure out which gun you want to get. I highly doubt you will get approved for a LTC when San Bernadino County is not a shall issue county. Good Luck.

Although San Bernardino is not a shall issue, it is very easy to get.

zfields

09-23-2011, 3:34 PM

I really should get my CCW. Just considering I go to school, and work from home, I wouldnt be carrying much hah.

paul0660

09-23-2011, 3:44 PM

I misspoke. There was no school today for many highschoolers.

I get the idea of porting, but I think a good stance is even better. Weight forward as you focus on the front sight (I hope that is not copyrighted). In a not ideal situation, it might help (one handed, from behind cover, etc.) but as zfields said, there are other factors to consider.

Head416

09-23-2011, 4:00 PM

Okay... so does anybody know of a 9mm conversion for the SR40c? I know they have them for the M&P40, but what about the M&P40c? Might as well throw in the sub-compact XD40 while I'm at it.

I wasn't able to find any of the above.

InGrAM

09-23-2011, 4:03 PM

Concealment - I'm 6'1" 225lb so I should be able to conceal anything that anybody else can.

I am 6'2" and 190 lbs and personally find an IWB to be far more comfortable and concealable than any OWB. These are the holsters that I use on a regular basis, FIST K1 Universal IWB for carry(sometimes for IDPA), Blade-Tech Straight Drop Kydex OWB for competition (USPSA, Steel Challenge and 3 gun).

http://www.californiavtxriders.com/phpBB3/gallery/image33603.jpg

http://www.californiavtxriders.com/phpBB3/gallery/image33598.jpg

Damn, that K1 universal looks horrible uncomfortable. How do you like it?

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 4:30 PM

InGrAM ,Damn, that K1 universal looks horrible uncomfortable. How do you like it?

Actually it is very comfortable. You can heat up the kydex ears and bend them to your body shape. Plus it has some height and allot of cant adjustment. A cop buddy of mine recently borrowed it to show how difficult it is to take away a gun from this IWB holster. The only down side is the shell is made from very thin kydex, and I have cracked 2 of them over the years. The last replacement I got was a little thicker, so we will see how long it lasts.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 4:31 PM

Okay... so does anybody know of a 9mm conversion for the SR40c? I know they have them for the M&P40, but what about the M&P40c? Might as well throw in the sub-compact XD40 while I'm at it.

I wasn't able to find any of the above.

Just so you know, the Sheriff will not authorize conservations for CCW. It must be as delivered.

Head416

09-23-2011, 4:33 PM

Thanks for the tip. Although it would be nice to list it as both, the 9mm would really be for cheap practice.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 4:41 PM

paul0660, I misspoke. There was no school today for many high schools (sic).

Again what is your problem? “Oh, I’m not trying to jack the thread, but I’ll just throw in a crappy little comment”. Are you trying to say the OP is still in high school? Cause you are not talking to me.

Tell you what, there is a guy here that was with the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s department at the time 40 King shot down the fixed wing years ago. His name is Bob Hostetter, he was on the force for 12 years, and can verify this, and many other incidents involving 40 King. San Bernardino County is authorized to shoot from the air, one of the few departments in the country.

Go ahead and pm Bob, he will tell you.

And stay on the OP's topic, show everyone what kind of holsters you run.

Tripper

09-23-2011, 4:47 PM

@highlander
are you referring to a specific sheriff that wont issue for a conversion?
or do you know which the OP is applying with?

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 4:49 PM

@highlander
are you referring to a specific sheriff that wont issue for a conversion?
or do you know which the OP is applying with?

The OP says he will apply with the San Bernardino County Sheriffs, they will not approve conversions.

InGrAM

09-23-2011, 5:22 PM

InGrAM ,Damn, that K1 universal looks horrible uncomfortable. How do you like it?

Actually it is very comfortable. You can heat up the kydex ears and bend them to your body shape. Plus it has some height and allot of cant adjustment. A cop buddy of mine recently borrowed it to show how difficult it is to take away a gun from this IWB holster. The only down side is the shell is made from very thin kydex, and I have cracked 2 of them over the years. The last replacement I got was a little thicker, so we will see how long it lasts.

Hmm, I might have to get one and try it out. Thanks for the information. I am always on the look out for more CC ideas. Plus, I get bored easily. :rolleyes:

quig

09-23-2011, 5:30 PM

I didn't read every response, so forgive me if this is a repeat.

I think the XD subcompact is great for this purpose for these reasons.

1- The number one reason for a fail-to-fire is forgetting to disengage the Safety. I see this during some competitions and firearms training. You know about the safety, you practice with it, but when put in a stressful situation, it is forgotten.

2- When holstering, I feel that a trigger safety is not enough. One can easily be sloppy and catch the trigger or something which can accidentally engage as holstering. This is why I like the grip safety. As I reholster, I adjust my grip and place my thumb on the back of the slide to have the grip safety in play.

These are two important things for me. Being reliable and shoot when I make the decision, and not accidentally shooting myself. :)

paul0660

09-23-2011, 6:45 PM

Last PM from Highlander51:

Good luck finding it on the NTSB, they were drug dealers! In the meantime, bad buy, and bad luck, I hope you shoot yourself. Adios, MF.

Sweet, and illuminating.

HighLander51

09-23-2011, 6:53 PM

paul0660, completely made up, like all your piles of dog poop. A sensitive person like myself would never say that.

So get past your 'Troll Bait' and back to the OPs post before a moderator closes this.

paul0660

09-23-2011, 6:57 PM

Ahhh............confirmation.

Tiberius

09-23-2011, 7:02 PM

Hell Yeah! I love this story - let's get the details! Four more 172s and the guy's an ace - and there's not many genuine pistol aces around. That would put some gloss on the Glock vs. everything else debate.

Cmon, don't be shy. Was it reported at all? As a flyer, I'm genuinely curious.

I would think gettin' a concealed-carry permit would be the hard part. :D

The easy part is:

- Glock 27
- pretend you have an external safety to monkey w/.

zfields

09-23-2011, 9:04 PM

.40 cal ammo isnt that much more expensive. Even buying from wally world.

One big upside is they always seem to have it and be out of 9 and .45.

Tripper

09-23-2011, 9:05 PM

I would just ask the OP to not completely write off a good gun based on a single instance of accidental discharge.

I'm glad to hear that you took it in your hand and it didnt feel right for you,
I do think that you may have found what you like though, the M&P40c. you liked that one, its probably the one you should focus on, unless you find something about it you dont like.
sometimes you pick up a gun, and it just feels right from the git go.
good luck

Head416

09-24-2011, 9:20 AM

I was able to find a 9mm conversion barrel for the M&P40c: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=979054

I'm not completely writing off guns based on safety/no safety... I'm just expressing my preference. Certain guns have a proven track record that speaks for themselves and can't be disputed.

I AM writing guns off for having a slide mounted safety though!

stormvet

09-24-2011, 11:54 AM

As much as I love my CZ's in 9mm, I dont think I would recommend one in .40 and yes I am a .40 fan and carry a different make .40 often.

If you want a thumb safety and there is nothing wrong with it my main carry's are 1911 .45s I would really lean towards the M&P with the thumb safety. Also may want to take a look at the S.A. EMP in .40 sweet gun a real looker and very accurate, how reliable they are cant really say my partner has one in 9mm it can be very finnicky but when it has ammo it likes its a runner.

I totally agree with you stay far away from slide mounted controls.

Head416

09-25-2011, 9:11 AM

I went to another Turner's to see what they had, basically just ended up holding the same things again. The XD40 sub-compact is the most comfortable, because the mag extension is all the way around the base of the mag. The M&P40c and the Ruger SR40c only extend on the pinky side of the mag, but not the heel of the hand side.

But it seems that with the mag extension the grip of the XD40 sub-compact is the same size as the grip on the standard XD40 so the only difference is an inch of barrel. Since the barrel would be down my pants anyway it doesn't seem like concealment would be any different between the standard and the sub-compact. Any opinions on that comparison?

HighLander51

09-25-2011, 9:36 AM

I Since the barrel would be down my pants anyway it doesn't seem like concealment would be any different between the standard and the sub-compact. Any opinions on that comparison?

That is correct, you only need to conceal the butt of the gun. I always recommend the largest frame gun in the caliber that is most manageable to you. Compact and sub compact guns in 40S&W and above, have a much greater recoil event than a full size 9mm. Since you are in the Inland Empire, come out to Norco Running Gun at Raahuages on any Saturday, me and my crew will be there. You can run a couple of caps thru any of my Glocks to see how they feel.

Head416

09-26-2011, 7:37 AM

I appreciate the offer, thanks.

dascoyne

09-26-2011, 8:21 AM

Glock 23

Caladain

09-26-2011, 8:27 AM

+1 on the XD 40sw Service with the magwell trimmed to subcompact size. You can then keep the shorty mag as the concealed mag, and your backup magazines as the fun-sized magazines with the magazine sleeve attached (if you so desire, or you can just run the short subcompact magazines. The fun-sized in cali would only get you +1 rounds, but would also give you more area to grip)

high_lander

09-26-2011, 9:49 AM

What about a 1911 champion size? rounds carried is about the same as a 40, but the get the benefit of the .45 (to me is a smoother shooting cartridge).

Being a single stack it will conceal very nice. I also carry a XD9 SC. VERY nice to conceal. And with the mag deal going on, it's a hard to beat deal.

Shenaniguns

09-26-2011, 12:14 PM

The M&P .40 or 40c thumb safety model with some Apex Tactical internals would be what I would choose.