Jonathan: Welcome everybody. Today is June 5th 2015 and we really, really appreciate you being with us. Joining me today in our virtual studio from all across the planet are Tiffany, Gaby and Doug; and Doug we're having some technical difficulties here but Doug will be back with us certainly and Erica unfortunately will not be with us today she has some time conflict. So this is our new time weekly on Fridays at 10am eastern so we're hoping that people will be able to listen and of course if you can't listen live all of our episodes are archived on the SOTT Talk Radio page on Blog Talk Radio page, just search in Blog Talk Radio for SOTT.

So, today is our revisiting of the topic of EMF exposure, a little while back we had our guest Larry Bowers on the show. Larry is well credentialed and has spent many years working with electromagnetic technology has worked on things like satellite communications and he is kind enough to join us again today to revisit the topic of EMF electromagnetic frequency exposure. The positives and negatives of that although when you start talking about it there aren't really that many positives, there's more negatives than positives. I guess you could make an argument for this technology increasing the availability of communication in our society and things like that and at the same time there's a lot of information coming out now about how its damaging to the body to the mind and to our overall state of well being.

So, let's see if we can go to Larry for a little reintroduction. Larry can you hear me ok? That sounds like we're having a little bit of technical difficulties. How about Doug and Gaby, are you guys on the line here alright?

Doug: Yes.

Gaby: Yeah we're here.

Jonathan: Alright great.

Tiffany: Here we're having a lot of dirty noise.

Jonathan: Yeah I hear that.

Gaby: Which is interesting because the show is about that. (Laughter) Ok, it's better.

Jonathan: That sounds better. Tiff and Larry can you guys hear us on your line?

Tiffany: Yeah, it seems to have gone away a little bit.

Doug: Well I wonder if you're coming through because I can't actually hear it.

Jonathan: It is gone now.

Doug: Ok. Good.

Jonathan: I guess Larry would you mind just taking a few minutes to reintroduce yourself to our audience and tell us a little bit about your experience in this field?

Larry: Yeah sure, sure I'd be happy to. Welcome to the show everybody out there and if you heard the last show you probably got a big earful on EMF but my background, I'm retired Electrical Engineer and I worked for about 30 year for Lockheed Martin, mostly in satellite systems and payload design but my background primarily was in electromagnetic fields, scattering basically the physics behind electromagnetic fields and that's where all my interests originated in terms of trying to characterise the EMF problem and understand the biological facts.

One of the things that is really important for people to get a basic understanding of is that EMF comes in all kinds of different forms and categories and if we look at the general nature of the part of it that comes from the sun in the interaction with the ....(Bad audio) or the wave guide, that would be considered unnatural form of EMF that could quite possibly weaken condition to throughout maybe billions of years on the earth whatever our origins may be and then there is some other forms that are manmade and the distinction between what's harmful and what's not is beginning to be understood in the form of bandwidth, that is if the source is appearing to be wideband noise like in nature, we're finding more and more cases where this is harmful.

So, one of the basic things you've got to look at is the bandwidth of the signal that we're talking about in terms of the EMF and what kind affect does that have on your systemic functions and all else. So, that's a very basic understanding there if you look at the RIFE technology you're looking at EMF in the form of tones that are used primarily to do healing and those are fairly narrow band single frequency tones that are not harmful we're finding more and more that its wideband noise like nature of these signals that actually produces... (Bad audio)

Tiffany: Larry, just to make it even more basic for all the technology dummies out there, can you describe what exactly bandwidth is, 'cuz I hear it a lot and I'm not quite sure what it is.

Larry: Ok, well if you go back to the cell phones, your very first cell phone remember those big hand held units that came out, those were analogue and that was because we did not have the digital technology at that time to be able to put up all the GSM digital signals, CMA all that kind stuff. So you have a fairly narrow band analogue tones that were actually used to carry the voice information, so that voice information bandwidth is only a few kilohertz, but now when you step up to digital communications, what we've get technology development that allows you to transmit many, many kilohertz for example 100s of kilohertz going up to mega hertz of information that we're talking about in orders of magnitude of information bandwidth and that requires RF bandwidth, radio frequency bandwidth in signal.

So, your cell phones today operate on a much greater bandwidth when the original cell phones in the old analogue networks that we all were used to back in the day. It's really just a function of how much information are you trying to transmit? If you look at your cell phones today those that are 3G, 4G so on and so forth connected to the internet those phones are used to receiving and transmitting very very wideband signal and that makes them even more dangerous than even the higher power narrow band signals, does that help Tiffany?

Tiffany: Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan: So, is that the wide bandwidth considered more harmful because it's more like a shotgun blast? Is it because it's more dirty or because it covers a wider area?

Larry: Well, I would describe more like it's because its noise like, when you start it's a tremendous amount of bandwidth, its being looked more and more like a white noise signal that you might look at on a oscilloscope or hear on a radio, that kind of thing. So, it results from these very thick rapid additional transitions that occur in the signals that you're trying to transmit and that forces of the bandwidth could be greater and then you've got the exact opposite of the single tone.

A single tone is just a single frequency and many scientists actually do believe that even at power levels that approach the level where you begin to actually heat the flesh as long as you stay below that, if your signal bandwidth is low enough the amount of physical harm is quite small but as soon as you begin to increase bandwidth and signal you end up with you can look at it like noise you're increasing the noise that is incident on your body and if the frequency's high enough it will penetrate your body.

So, there's certain amount of ... (Bad audio) if you look at the effects of that, there's a lot if evidence to show that this interferes with metabolic functions at the sub cellular level. So, this would be at the level of your mitochondria and this affects energy production and we all know when that starts to go then we begin to approach various different chronic disease conditions that depend on the nature of the individual, genetics, other environmental factors and so on.

Gaby: I have a question Larry related to that, there is documentation of affections at a cellular level, have there ever been any health organisation or any government or anybody on the official side line, that has given a warning about these technologies an official warning?

Larry: Well, it kind of depends on who you're talking about what the risks NGO government or even cell phone companies. The cell phone companies, if you look at the agreement if you want to put it that way, of what you're doing when you buy one of their phones and operate it. Most of them give you a warning that there can be health effects and without trying to refer to any studies or anything like that.

Their only purpose in doing so is to absolve themselves of any responsibility or lawsuits in the future. But that's one level of warning but there are NGOs, there are various different other institutions, most of them are associated with the schools or universities and a lot of these to come forward, based on trying to applaud precautionary principal. It is so difficult to isolate a particular cause of the various different chronic diseases they have really tried to push an application of precautionary principal that is cut down on the power level and so on and so forth until more information is known and pinned to the actual effects of high frequency noise in the EMF.

So, there's various different warnings here and there it's very difficult though because it is a problem and then people just assume that devices are safe and that assumption is closer to wishful thinking in the sense that you don't your research and you don't figure out what's really known and what's not known and there are a tremendous number of studies which point to the health effects or the damaging health effects of EMF over long haul. Did I cover that Gaby?

Gaby: Yeah, it's mainly because I'm concerned for example the use of cell phones by children, all the games that they promote for children for cell phones and but also parents encourage to use applications like, WhatsApp early as four years old. And I thought that I read or saw warning somewhere at least a brain surgeon or a neuron surgeon was giving specific guidelines and talking about studies related with brain tumours and how children were so susceptible and shouldn't use cell phones at all. You know, so yeah.

Larry: Yeah, Gaby that's probably one thing we should clearly emphasise up front is that all of the EMF whether it is dirty power on the grid or magnetic field or WIFI or any of these RF digital signals they all affect the child much more than they do the adult. And that's because the children are there cells are still maturing they're dividing there's a lot of growth involved and the effects of these signals is far greater on children than it would be on you or I for example.

So, that's a big part of it and yes there's a lot of information about the susceptibility of children to cell phone induced brain cancers and brain tumours. So even though you have the industry and governments and stuff coming in and trying to deny it, it's kind of like a case of quack watch, if there is this there's this sign that actually gives into adhominem attacks so on and so forth and this tends to make it very difficult for very good researchers to come forward with their data.

Doug: I was reading one of your articles Larry, you've put some excellent articles up on the, SOTT Health and Wellness section about EMF just kind of covering and summarising all that stuff and it was saying also one thing that really struck me is the effects that these cell phones can have on vision particularly on children, is the anyway you could go over that a little bit?

Larry: Uh, well I'm not too familiar with some of the details of exactly what various effects are. What you can say is from scientific standpoint and a measuring standpoint is that there's something called the specific absorption ratio. And that has to do with when you put a cell phone very close up to your ear, how much radiation is actually absorbed directly into the flesh, that'd be the ears, the eyes, the brain, the head so on and so forth. First is how much is scattered off the head, alright so now normally you would think well jeez that'd be roughly the same just proportional from a distance that you put the cell phone to your head but this is not true.

When you put a cell phone so close to your head and its close to your ear there is a fact that actually where the flesh because if the very nearness of the antennae to the flesh, the flesh will actually absorb more radiation than it would otherwise if the antennae or the phone were held physically away from the ear and this drops off very quickly with distance. If you just simply keep the phone even just a few inches away from the ear or better yet hold it 2ft away from you and use the speaker phone. Then the specific absorption ratio ends up going down a bit and this is much more for children because again their flesh is growing and there is a whole lot more cases I believe that are out there that show the damage to children later in life due to their cell phone use when they're putting it directly up to their head it involves the eyes and the ears and of course the head. There are I believe quite a few, I think it's in the article somewhere where this doctors that were under the head of a doctor here in the United States, he actually recommended very strongly children not use or be allowed to use cell phones at all except in the case of emergency. There are a lot of good doctors out there that are instructing their patients and their staff and a lot of other doctors to be sure to pass this kind of information on to their patients that have children they have cell phones.

Gaby: Ok. So, this is some of the information related to midterm long term affects, how about immediate affects? Do we have data that this kind of technology affects in mood behaviours for example? Or the mind or the soul so to speak?

Larry: Ah, say that again Gaby. I'm not sure I caught that?

Gaby: Yes. Is there data to suggest that this technology has immediate effects on mood and behaviour for example?

Larry: On what move on to the last word?

Gaby: On mood and behaviour?

Larry: Oh, mood and behaviours, yeah. Well the big problem that occurs there is after you have had a serious amount of time of exposure, you become what is called in the area electro sensitive, so you become EMF sensitive and in those cases you most certainly will have effects on mood and behaviour because you're inducing things like headaches, you're inducing lots of changes that are occurring possibly involving brain neuro transmitters. And so you're getting lots of different affects that somebody who is just being recently exposed to EMF may not exhibit it at all but there are cases where people become sensitive and all kinds of effects what you're talking about occur. And this is where it's very sad because many of these people don't know what's happening and it's only much much later that they finally get the feedback and they're in their own cases to begin to really cut back on their EMF exposure.

If you like, I'll give you a recent case right here near me. This is a case for dirty power. She had become very sensitive to cell phones she has one, she does use the speaker phone. She can tell when they're on or around her. She can tell for certain if somebody inside of her car has got a cell phone that is on. She has become so sensitive from the stand point in that she doesn't even look very healthy. And I'll tell you, now this is my own feeling; it's that she and her husband have been exposed to dirty power for an extremely long period of time, five years.

They built a home five years ago and they're off the grid, they power it with a solar system. Solar system is very noisy and unless you filter it, you're going to have very.... (Bad audio) It's a very high grid frequency noise. It's not just 50-60Hz, and it's the noise that's on the grid that is produced in this case by an inverter and that solar inverter exposes them to that noise for all the time they're in the house, sleeping at night and so on and so forth. So they have been exposed to five years of this high level noise. For example, her husband can't sleep without a fan blowing pretty hard in the room because of the noise. And I believe that her health is suffering significantly from this, now nobody can prove that but she has become EMF sensitive. She has crossed that threshold, where the kinds of effects that Gaby just mentioned are occurring to her. With her cell phone or any environment at all, where she experiencing high frequency noise.

We had just recently done some testing at her house and the noise levels are off the meter. They were so high and one of the guys is going to be spending some time trying to figure out whether or not the wiring in the home is responsible for the extremely high inverter noise level. That's just an example of how somebody likely became EMF sensitive.

Doug: Now is this how someone becomes EMF sensitive? Is it always because of exposure or are there other things that could possibly lead to the EMF sensitivity?

Larry: Yes. I think that just the second part of your question is correct. If you look at the areas of diet and toxic exposure that you guys have actually covered quite a bit very well. Those two areas also affect where your threshold levels are going to be in terms of EMF sensitivity. But the reverse is also true.

If you have a very high EMF environment then, you're becoming EMF sensitive and you may become more sensitive to toxic exposure and also to poor diet. So all these things are connected and that's why it makes it so difficult from a diagnostic or clinical stand point to say the reason for your chronic condition is; a, b, c, or whatever it may be, it's extremely difficult to do that and that's why the studies are so inconclusive in terms of being able to put a finger directly on something that does something that produces disease.

Tiffany: Well, it sounds to me like a story you told of this lady that you know. She and her husband, you said, spent five years in an extremely noisy EMF environment which affected them on a cellular level. If your cells become nutrient deficient, and they can't allow nutrients in and waste out, you can become more sensitive to EMF signals? So, if you have some kind of cellular damage whether its caused by a prolonged EMF exposure or poor diet of stress or anything like that that can make you even more sensitive.

Larry: Yes. They're all connected. If for example if you really took care of your detoxing and you're really take care of you diet much like what you guys have already talked about, then you're going able to stand much higher levels of EMF. That doesn't mean that you want to, it just means that you're protected at a higher level.

Somebody that's got a poor diet who's got a lot of toxins and toxic burden load, is very likely going to have a much lower threshold to which they can stand the effects of EMF's. So, that's why I think it really is so important to deal with all three and you just cannot escape EMF. I mean we don't even know when we walk into town or store or whatever that we're getting blasted by extremely high levels of WIFI for example. I think Jonathan mentioned that earlier.

If you don't know what your exposure is going to be which is the case for EMF, then you're far better off rather than trying to get too paranoid about it, to just work the health and the detox areas and that will give you much more resilience when it comes to EMF which may be very difficult to tell.

Gaby: Larry, there is a question from our chat room, the question is; is it possible that all these EMF noise may have chaotic not only in the human body but also perhaps influence natural weather patterns?

Larry: I'm having trouble hearing you Gaby, could you repeat that?

Gaby: Yes, the question is; is it possible that all this EMF noise may have chaotic effects on not only on the human body but also on natural weather patterns? And she's talking about earth changes for example as a contributor factor of earth changes?

Larry: Well, you know that's a really tough one to answer. I suppose it's possible. We do know that when the sun goes into bizarre behaviour, kind of like it is now. And we get some really various bursts of activity that take the normal Schumann resonances that we're used to living with, and alters' those significantly. We do know that they're a lot epidemiological studies that have shown the effects on melatonin production. It gets into the neuro transmitters, it gets into suicide rates, and it gets into heart attack rates.

So, there's certainly is an affect that is produced by the sun that causes lots of strange things to happen to people down here. Whether or not that would have a reverse affect from the stand point of the EMF that we produce, human man made and that kind of thing, it's really hard to say. I would say probably minimal but again with all the changes going on, it's an area where we know so little about.

Jonathan: Larry, I had a quick question about short term exposure. I was just recently in California for some work and I noticed in the city that because where I live is in a rural area and so we do have self-service and we do have WIFI and things like that but it's certainly not concentrated as it is in the city.

I've never considered myself to be electronically sensitive, not the way that you speak about in some of these other cases. I don't get nauseous or migraines or anything like that but I did notice is as soon as I went, especially in the airport specifically and then when I got into the city. I felt like I could actually feel it. I was jittery, my legs were twitching, and my muscles were twitching. I don't know certainly some of that could be explained by stress or other factors but I just kept getting this nagging feeling that I was feeling this high concentration of WIFI and cell signals. And I wondered does it have to be long term exposure that causes electro sensitivity or could you feel something like that going from an area of low concentration to high concentration essentially?

Larry: Well, there are a lot of people that fall in the same class of experience that you just described for yourself. And I do feel that as you become more sensitive to your environment is that you become more sensitive to a clean environment in particular that you could begin sense this and it doesn't mean that you're becoming EMF sensitive and you're on the edge of chronic disease. I felt the same thing and airports are a big source of it because the WIFI environment the cell phone environment, the people are packed together and you're talking about a really nasty EMF environment in there and that's all a wideband high frequency noise source.

I think that my own feeling would be Jonathan, that you are simply getting more and more sensitive to your environment itself which is good. That it has to do with the cleaning up the diet, clearing up toxins and so on and so forth and then you can tell when you run into an environment where it's extremely bad. Just like you would be able to tell if you suddenly ate a bad meal and you could point to it directly and say, boy that's a possible cause to the problem here. You're not going to enter into chronic disease condition because one meal or one exposure to EMF.

Jonathan: Right, it was amazing to see just the high concentration of people using their cell phones. Like I said, I live in a rural area and still a lot of people here use cell phones but specifically I was in Los Angeles and every, like 98-99% of people everywhere where I looked around had a phone snatched up to their head. And I didn't see one person the entire time using either speaker phone or ear buds head phones or anything to try to distance that. It was pretty wild and that leads to my other question that I have was; does it actually make a difference using the ear buds? I was curious because you have this wire going from the phone to you ear, is there really any difference there, is there only minimal is that helpful to use earphones?

Larry: Well, if your phone can handle an air tube which will all it's doing it putting the speaker closer to the other end then yeah, there is no issue with that. There's no issue involved with that, it's like an antennae and it's gonna be perfectly safe to use it that way. If you feel like you can't use the speaker phone because the environment you're in, then you certainly could just hook up an air tube if you can get one that works with your particular phone and then operate it the same way and then a noisy environment won't affect you as nearly as much.

One thing that is good for people to picture is that when your cell phone, if you have it front of you and you're looking at the bars, let's say you have 1 or 2 bars. What that means is that your reception to the cell tower is not very good and your phone will be jacking its power up close to the maximum it can be. So, if you're in a situation where you've only got 1 or 2 bars on the phone. Yes, you can make a phone call and yes, you can do so on and so forth but the problem is that your phone is now transmitting very close to or at its very highest power level that it can achieve. And well, this is not good if that phone is right next to your head. On the other hand if your phone is giving you 5 bars then the phone is gonna be transmitting at fairly low power and that is preferable.

Alright, now it depends on where you're at. If you're inside your home and let's say in your bedroom and you've got 5 bars on the phone, then your cell tower, well whichever one it is, is getting in and radiating at very high power levels to your bedroom. So, you can use your phone basically as a RF meter. It really is, the number of bars it shows tells you not only how it talks to a cell phone tower. It also tells you how much power your phone is likely to be transmitting, if you decided to make a call. So, you can use your cell phones bar meter as a RF meter. It's going to tell you an awful lot about your environment and whether or not your home is fairly quiet. If you're getting 5 bars inside your house, you're being irradiated 24-7 by that cell tower. Now EMF exposure is accumulative ok. So, it's just like radiation, if you get a high dose that's ok because it could be offset with periods of low exposure. It's just like the people in Fukushima, you can go in for a short period of time into the reactor area but they have to stand a very long period of time away from the reactor and the radiation, the same basic thing with EMF.

So, this chronic exposure from the cell tower is 24-7 and it's important that you try to get that exposure level inside the living space and the work space down. Of course if you can't and there is not much you can do about it except put up some screening or use reflective paint and stuff like that but it's at least important to know.

Tiffany: So, Larry back to the ear bud question. I just want to make sure that people know that there's a difference between regular ear buds that you would listen to music on your phone for instance, versus the air tube which actually works differently from regular ear buds. So, make sure you use an air tube and not just plain ear buds, is that correct?

Larry: Yes, yes. Also there's the wireless version of that which is Bluetooth. So, you can hook your phone up to a Bluetooth network and then put it on your Bluetooth head set and that head set is a transmitter receiver. You're dealing with the same kind of issues with wireless and you're putting it right up next to your head when you decide to use the Bluetooth ear phone.

Another area that really helps people out a lot too; I think is, that you really should not really be using WIFI at all. Part of the problem is that sometimes it's difficult to turn that off on your laptop. Many people walk around that are using a laptop and they don't realise that the wireless is on, when it's on; it's constantly transmitting and trying to find a source to connect with. So, if you have a laptop and you're not totally sure if the wireless is off you should go in to the drivers and disable the driver. You could do that through the control panel, disable the wireless driver entirely and then you know for a fact that it will never come on until you enable it again.

Jonathan: Sure, so we're talking about a significant difference between your ambient environment and the devices that you have around you. So, I might be in an environment where there's say a 4G network and 10 Wi-Fi networks around me but by having these transmitting devices near my body I'm gonna be making that worse; is it exponentially worse?

Larry: Well, it depends on how close. Once you get to the point where the antenna is resting directly against your body, this is why it makes sense to look at your phone. If you have to, try to find some net information on the phone and to find out where the antenna is. It could be somewhere probably on the back of the antennae or the back of the unit. That's where the antenna will be.

You could certainly at the very least make sure is that is pointing away from you and it could be separate from your body by at least an inch or two or whatever it may be. That's going to be far better, remember what I said about specific absorption ratio. Ok, when you keep putting that antenna directly on your skin and that SAR is going to go up and that means that it's getting more coupling to your flesh. So, even just having a slight distance between the actual antenna itself and your body is going to give some additional protection. If you actually have to carry it, know where your phones antenna is and keep that antenna pointed as far away from your body as you can.

Jonathan: Sure, so better to keep it in bag than in your pocket?

Larry: Well, the safest thing that you could do, if you're concerned about that and you don't need to be reachable at every possible moment is to put your phone in flight mode, that's the only way to turn it off. You can turn the power off on the phone and the phone is still going to be talking to the cell tower and saying, 'I'm here.' and the cell tower says, 'I know you're there.' and boom its sending the signal out. But if you were to put your phone in flight mode by law it must actually never transmit. So, that means that if you use flight mode you can be sure that your phone is not going to transmit. So, then you can carry it any way you want.

For example; the girl I was talking about here locally, I've told her this and she does this now. She leaves her phone in flight mode and then she only checks her messages periodically during the day. So, people wanting to get hold of her have got to leave a message and they understand that she is not going to be reachable in the moment and that within an hour or two she will call them back. That's really the safest way to use a cell phone and to minimise the radiation.

People tend to forget that it's not just the radiation on you; you're radiating everybody around you. So, from a consideration standpoint it's really a good thing to put your phone in flight mode. Most certainly if you get in a car with anybody because typically you've got several people getting in the car they all have a cell phone, they all think their phones are off, nobody's talking on it and radiation is zero. Well that's not true. All their phones are talking to the base station and so that they are all transmitting and you've got a little microwave oven on wheels.

Tiffany: Kind of like second hand radiation, like second hand cigarette smoke?

Larry: Yeah, actually that's a good way to put it, if you want to leverage that, that's a... (Laughter)

Doug: Yeah, since the last show Larry I've actually changed my cell phone behaviour a great deal. Putting it in flight mode all the time when I'm not actually using it, is something that I've started doing and making sure that when I'm in the car that everybody has theirs in flight mode just to try and avoid that exposure. Even if I'm doing something on my phone like reading an article or something like that, I'll load it up and then put the phone on flight mode and just read it whilst it's completely not transmitting. I'm not particularly sensitive, so I can't say I've necessarily noticed anything but it's just peace of mind that I'm not constantly being beamed by the stuff.

Larry: Yes, yes and also you're not radiating somebody in your presence that may be sensitive. You really don't know and they may not even know. So, that's a great practice. And what that will do for you is, remember that the EMF exposure is accumulative. So, if you're knocking that stuff down continuously it allows you to be in a very nasty environment for longer without having a serious affect. So, that's a good practice. I wish more people would do the same and carry their phones around like that. Obviously if you're expecting some kind of an emergency call or whatever it may be then you leave it on but for most, phone calls people receive or for their need to get on the internet there is no reason or need to be carrying around and transmitting a RF source.

Jonathan: Umm sure. Larry, I have a quick question about our last show that you were with us and I can't remember if this was actually on the air or if it was before we started the show but you have mentioned briefly your set up at home, that you have to minimise your own exposure within your home. I wondered if there are some people in our audience who have some technical experience who might be able to set something similar up. If you could just describe the set up that you have and maybe give some tips on how other people might be able to achieve the same by configuration.

Larry: Yeah, that's a really good question, Jonathan. There's more and more people are abandoning their land lines, AT&T and so on and so forth because they're getting so expensive compared to the cell phones that they carry around anyway. So, they just simply operate with just their cell phone. Unfortunately, of course that brings the cell environment into your home with all the issues that we've been talking about.

One way to get around that is, if you go to Verizon or AT&T or any of the big guys. You'll find that they have a little source box that you can buy the cell phone service for and this is a box that's got the antenna on it and its costs like, $20 a month. I think AT&T is even less than that and you can use that to drive all of the phones in your home.

So, your landline goes away and all your phones work just exactly like the land line did but that they're actually going through this little box. Now, the way you make that EMF safe is that little box, you undo the antenna and you hook a cable to it and that's an external antennae, then you take that antenna, run it through a cable outside and point it roughly in the direction of where you know the closest tower is.

So, what that does is it takes the all the RF out of the inside home environment and it's only radiating fairly low power levels. The RF iss radiating primarily in the direction of that tower. There you have a permanent cell phone home set up and by the way if you have an RV you can simply unhook the box and take it with you and it will work still using your home phone number and it can ring in the RV or wherever you're going.

That's a really good viable solution for people who want to have a good cheap phone service to the home, like AT&T but they would rather use a much cheaper service through the cell network. That's what I do myself and it's far cheaper here. I think the bills went up to $75 a month and that's just for a standard landline. With those prices, you save awful lot by just putting in this cell phone base network it runs all your phones and it doesn't radiate you at all.

Jonathan: So, are you actually using a wireless cell phone in the house or do you have a corded phone hooked up to this base station?

Larry: You mean the phones that I actually have in the house?

Jonathan: Yeah, you mention that you have the antenna base station and you have that running out of the house to another unit which is pointing at the cell tower. In the house are you actually using a cell phone or do you have like a standard landline phone hooked up to your base station?

Larry: Yeah, the box that you get from the cell phone company has got connector on it that goes and hooks to your central cell phone network in the house and all your phones work just like they always did like with the landline.

Jonathan: Hmm, sure.

Larry: It's something that most people don't know about and if you're serious about trying to reduce your cell phone exposure and you're using your cell phone as your home phone, this other option is a much better way to go. It will take all that radiation that dealing with the cell phone and leave it outside away from the house.

Jonathan: If you don't mind me picking your brain just for a minute, but the cable that you have running outside is that a coaxial cable?

Larry: Yes, it is co-ax one-off, and for the cell phone antenna, it's 75 ohm cable, so the one cable that is low-loss ... mine has about a 100 feet of cable ... so you get thing out and away, and then you could put it out on a little pole or whatever ... just find out ... if you're going to use Verizon, find out where the nearest Verizon tower is ... or if you use AT&T, find where that tower is ... then the antenna has got some gain ... the antenna costs about $100 or something like that. They're referred to as a YAGI antenna - Y A G I - and they're made for cell phones, they're 75 ohm impedance, and the cable you want is 1 low-loss cable is referred to as Elmer 100.

Jonathan: OK, so the antenna that you have outside is not your standard dish antenna, its more one that looks like it has a spine in the middle with the wires coming off of each side? Kind of like an old TV antenna? Ok.

Larry: Yep, that's it that's it. The only thing that you have is the antenna, the cable and of course the labour to put that in and then you may need a connector, a very small connector to interface the cable with the unit that your get from the cell people so that they can tell you what that is they're couple of box like that but you may need that depending on what you have but you can get that from electronic stores stuff like that

Tiffany: Well Larry speaking of house set up, in one of the articles you wrote you said it was very important not to have panel boxes in living areas. If you can't move the box, what are some measures you can take to reduce the dirty noise coming off of the panel box?

Larry: Well, one thing you wanna do for sure is to filter the grid so that's where you're getting into the stetzer filter the green light shelters and try and get the noise power on the grid as low as possible. In addition if you have a panel box adjacent to or part of living space, you really are better off especially with children, especially don't let children have access to that space for any length of time and you're really far better off making trying, not wall it off but to make so that it's not functional living space and it's not a huge area, it just means that within 3 - 4 ft. of that entire area the panel box that you make sure that that space is not used for living space.

Tiffany: Is there some kind of shielding you could put around the box or insulation or anything?

Larry: No, as far as magnetic field goes, there is nothing you can do. You can use shielding for the electric field, but the magnetic field is the big risk without and there's nothing your gonna be able to do to get that magnetic field down, it penetrates everything, so there's no shielding approach for dealing with the panel box.

Tiffany: So in that case, filtering is the way to go.

Larry: Well filtering but even then with a high magnetic field, I would still be sure to try and keep that whatever living space is adjacent to that not be used for long time lounging. In another words don't lounge right there.

Jonathan: That makes me wonder about this new craze this new compact efflorescent bulbs and I have done some reading on that those put out and scattered electromagnetic field, what is the impact of those small compact fluorescence versus your standard tube fluorescent bulb, is it much less, is it the same?

Larry: Something dropped out there, what is the impact of ah ...

Jonathan: Of compact fluorescent light bulb versus the standard tube fluorescent, is there much difference in the impact or should those also be avoided like the plague?

Larry: Well I would avoid those like the plague for another reason and that's to do with the mercury in it.

Jonathan: Oh sure.

Larry: You know you drop one of those bulbs then it shatters, you've got an EPA level clean up to do.

Doug: I've definitely noticed the effect from compact fluorescent myself. I got a guest lamp it was given to me and it had a compact fluorescent bulb in it and I just started to notice that every time that I was sitting at my desk when I had this light on. I just started to get really tired and disorientated feeling and eventually I narrowed it down to the bulb and I replaced it with just a standard regular light bulb and I noticed the difference immediately. So yeah, I say that those compact fluorescent are definitely giving off something.

Larry: Yes, there is a bigger reason not to use them upfront but also quality of life. I think it's an issue and then also you are gonna have a high magnetic fields off that because the nature of the current that is running through to produce that. It will look like less of line source but more like point source but it's still gonna be strong and you don't want that thing close to you but the real danger being is that there are many many tragic cases of this; the big long fluorescent tubes because of the large separation and the net current that you end up having to run to produce a light, produce very strong magnetic fields that do not actually go down very much with this, they go down as they would from a line source because the tube is so long and from a line source you don't get nearly the attenuation with this as you would from a point source. So, that's the physical difference between the attenuation of those fields.

Now picture a situation where you've got let's say you've got the condominium complex that has underground parking and the underground parking lot has got a big huge array of all these fluorescent tubes to keep the area lit. So, the first floor of the apartment building is right above those tubes and people that inhabit the first floor of those apartments do not realise they are dealing with very high magnetic fields and that's all from the lights. There have been many cases documented where these people eventually become seriously ill and has been tied back to the magnetic field exposure from the fluorescence lights that are on 24-7. Fluorescent lights in general should be something that you certainly eliminate from your own home and be aware wherever else they may be in your environment especially in your work environment.

Jonathan: Not to change gears here too much, but I have a question about house wiring and living in a rural area where I do there are a lot of older homes here even up to 120 year old homes and a lot of them have what's called the old knob and tube wiring. Which is a holdover from back in the day before obviously not everything was brought up to code or refitted and my question being; is there a great difference between those two styles of house wiring as far as the dirty electric field within the home. Is knob and tube wiring worse for that? Does it act like a more potent antenna? Would it be worth somebody updating their wiring just for that reason despite the other safety concern and things?

Larry: Yes, absolutely the older wiring like knobs and tubes that stuff was put in place long before the current versions of the national electric code and one thing about the national electric code that people should understand is that its written very specifically to avoid net current. That is to avoid magnetic fields inside the home and any knob and tube kind of stuff is more likely going to have very high levels of magnetic fields so I would recommend that braided wiring be a priority for any home.

There's a lot of wiring usually in these homes that is acceptable and maybe that many cases the job is not that big of a job, certainly not necessarily tearing into walls and all that if its available up in the attic but I think it's a worthwhile thing to do regardless and I think that what Karl Riley says in his book where he talks about diagnosing and priming the wiring.

People should be aware that people like Karl had got tremendous amount of experience years and years and years of going through the various homes, office buildings so on and so forth and trying to find wiring errors that produced that current and his conclusion is after talking with many other electricians, and I have to agree with him that there's at least one wiring error in every single home and that one wiring error produces a net current when you have particular appliances turned on. So, that the elevated magnetic fields are exhibited in just about every single home, with even just one wiring error. So, you know I would go beyond just trying to fix the old stuff and say that it's very worthwhile to you just simply get a cheap gage meter and run around the house with things turned on and see if you can find the elevated magnetic fields that in any given circuit and if so, get it fixed.

Jonathan: Sure.

Gaby: Larry I have a question that you mentioned earlier in the show about Rife technology, I would like to know what it is and if you can talk about it briefly.

Larry: What technology?

Gaby: Rife technology?

Larry: Oh the Rife yeah, the Royal Rife devices and many of those very similar to it, they do not use anything associated with a wideband signal. There is evidence and lots of other scientific evidence coming from various different places and sources, that there is a health benefit to particular frequencies that are tones. So, there's no bandwidth to it, it's just simply a sign wave CW tone and in that case we're talking about something that where you might say well, that's electromagnetic field, so on and so forth and that's where I try at the beginning to distinguish between CW tones and signals that have a loss of bandwidth.

Ok. So, the Rife technology and some of the other instruments that you see out there in the market are probably very well do have a beneficial affect against certain conditions and they appear to be tied to various different kinds of frequency's but they're all CW tones, there's no noise bandwidth associated with theses and there are quite a few physicists that do insist whether its electric field or a magnetic field, if it's a tone like nature it's not going to have a negative health effect, even at very high levels.

Doug: Is that kind of like the pulsed electromagnetic field therapy that you see around? I've seen those in a couple places, people offering this pulsed electromagnetic or pulsed EMF - PEMF it's sometimes called.

Larry: No, no. That's where I have a little problem with those devices. As soon as you say pulsed, you're talking about wideband. It may not be extremely wideband; it may just kind of like turning the carrier on and off, so on and so forth. The bandwidth may be small but as soon as you start approaching a larger and larger bandwidth then you're going to have larger and larger negative health effects. So, I'm not familiar with what waveforms they use in PEMF devices but I'd be very leery of anything that is claiming pulsed and I want to look at the bandwidth and what the highest frequency content is and then we get an idea of how noise like signal it may be actually propagated.

Jonathan: Larry, have you had any personal experience with any of the Rife stuff like the MWO the multiple wave oscillators or anything like that?

Larry: You mean with the Rife stuff?

Jonathan: Yeah, I was just wondering if you've ever experienced a treatment session with any of that technology yourself. I haven't but I know a few people who have and they claimed some beneficial results from it, so I was just curious.

Larry: Oh, quite possible. No, I've never actually experienced anything from a clinical stand point. There are devices that are diagnostic that use a bunch of tones and the response from those tones do a diagnosis. It's where you hold a couple of electrodes and the device goes through and it goes through a bunch of frequencies and so forth and then it comes back with a diagnosis of various different problems in different organs. And a very interesting device did do one of those and I had a bridge that was getting some infection underneath that which I've since had removed but that was definitely had an infection back up in there and the doctor that applied the machine to me went through and he went over me and reported that right in the area where I had that infection. And I told him, 'Gee I've got a problem with that bridge right there'. So, I was amazed that he could point something like that based on this machine that used a series of tones and my physical response to the tones. So, I can't explain it in anyway but that was my experience.

Tiffany: There's a follow up to that Larry, the way that MRI or CAT scans work; do they use pulse frequency or do you know.

Larry: Yes, yes. And for that reason your MRI is not something you want to live in but for a short period of time, again it should not be a problem because that's an environment that only lasts for a period of a test and you're out of it and you're off and running somewhere else. From a diagnostic stand point I wouldn't really want a CAT scan either because the extra radiation is very high but if I have too for a short period of time yeah, I've got no problem with it.

Jonathan: So, I guess while we're on the question train. I had a quick question too and I don't know, you said your background is in electrical engineering. So I don't how familiar you are with radiological technology but the chiropractor that I see from time to time has an x-ray and I had expressed some concerns about that and he said that well it's a high frequency x-ray and you get a much less concentrated dose of radiation than you would say if you were in the hospital. So, I wondered if you could speak about it if you're familiar with it that technology at all is there a great difference. Is there something that people should be asking about specifically I guess with the chiropractor of any other practitioner who's using x-ray machines, are they're some that are better and others that are worse?

Larry: Well I'm sure there are. I'm not really familiar with the various devices out there or how much radiation that they put out but I do know that something like CAT scan is tremendous dose, compared to what you get in a dentist office or something like that. I would be much more concerned whether or not you have a large number of CAT scans within a short period of time, than I would be with something in the dentist office.

Jonathan: Sure.

Larry: Again, all these sources that are on for a short period of time extend to the EMF area it's just the same. A killer is that it's a continuous environment that you don't realise that you're exposing yourself to 24-7. Or for large parts of the day, or in the bedroom for example, or all those other places you spend a lot of the time in are places that you want to search out the sources for EMF and your short term diagnostic stuff it's just that, its short term. Yes, you would do not want to be in that environment for long periods of time, but for diagnostic testing purposes for health I wouldn't shy away from that at all.

Jonathan: One other thing comes to mind too, is the use of appliances. I'm a total lay person in this area, so that's why I'm asking. I had a friend at one time years ago tell me that her appliances that don't need to stay plugged in all the time, like of course the refrigerator or freezer need to be plugged in continuously. But say something like coffee pot or microwave or even lamps or anything like that, that while they're plugged in, they're emitting more of an EM field than of course when they're not plugged in. Is that too nit-picky or is that something that people should be concerned about. Like I use my microwave just infrequently and whilst it's not being used, should I unplug it? Does that really make a difference?

Larry: I wouldn't worry too much about that one example, but you will have an effect on the noise on the grid for transformers that are plugged in that are like your wall outlets all the transformers for your cell phone and all these other devices those are good ideas just to leave unplugged, not from a magnetic field stand point. You've got get awfully close to them to worry about that, but they will contribute to some additional noise on the grid.

There are a number of devices that I was very surprised to find that produced so much noise, one that was an ioniser, an air ion generator and the model was Sharper Image and it stands about 3.5ft tall. But all these devices because of the way they operate produce a tremendous amount of noise on the grid. So, you may have a home that reads is extremely quiet and you plug one of these devices in and you turn it on and you've all of a sudden got a very high level up to a 1000 units of noise or even higher that's now on your homes grid and this is something that people think that they're doing a very good thing. A healthy ioniser here, take out toxins in the air and so on and so forth, and only don't realise that they were putting a tremendous amount of noise on their home grid. And unless that's filtered out, you may be treating something much worse.

It probably does help to unplug certain things other things that'll make a difference. I'm not sure microwave would make a difference, but again it all depends on the device and how it's producing power. If it's producing DC in order to power, like all your transformers that plug into the wall that can be a source of noise that goes back on the grid, but it's not gonna be a significant source of magnetic fields.

Jonathan: That reminds me of, kind of in a sideways way, that there was some controversy almost 10 years ago now about broad band over power lines. And that they were gonna start serving broad band internet over the existing power lines but there was a back lash from first responders. People that use point to point communication because the noise that could be generated off the lines was gonna disrupt a lot of that. I don't know if you remember when that was around but it seems to have faded into the background at this point.

Larry: Yeah well, that could be very bad idea in my opinion. Also and not just from a stand point of radiation but you're putting out a whole bunch of wideband noise on your grid and I know that there are people out there where people can use their home grid to communicate via computers so on and so forth but again now what you're doing is you're putting a whole bunch of noise on your own grid and by the way if you try and put a filter on that it's not going to work. So, that tells you right there that you probably do not want to do that because you are exposing yourself to EMF noise source that you do not want on the long haul.

Jonathan: Yeah. Well I think - yeah, Doug go ahead.

Doug: I know that Larry had said that there were a couple of studies that he covered in his series of articles here. I was just wondering if there was any studies in particular that you maybe wanted to cover to mention.

Larry: Well really, what I did in those articles is picking up the very few studies that actually show an EMF footprint very clearly in the epidemiological data and they do so at very high probability against it being random so that was the criteria for selecting those studies. So, I would just refer folks to read about those studies because you won't find very many of this quality and they're only the ones that really show EMF footprints in the epidemiological data. There must be thousands and thousands and thousands of studies done on plants, animals, mice, rats, you name it, all of that for people and so on and so forth.

But there are very few that you can say are conclusive about what the effects are and so I try to simply show those few that doctors get behind. They're very, much respected studies in the community and they are exemplary in terms of being able to show what an EMF footprint looks like.

But again even in all these different studies you've got to keep in mind, that if you still have poor diet and you have toxic exposure those things will compound the results of any studies and this is why it's so hard to figure out. That's what so hard to find the study for example that actually conclusively shows something because we're in a..., it's the same problem with toxic exposure and diet, if you're trying to show that this is hey, these are the things in these areas that you need to do and here's why they're good epidemiological studies has shown this, same difficulty there because they're compounding effects in the other categories that unless you account for, they're not going to be clean measurable solution.

So, that's why I think it's very important to understand that EMF in the context of all the other chronic conditions that we expose ourselves to that eventually lead to chronic disease. Well, I think that the evidence is in there from the studies and certainly cases where people have recovered significant functions as a result of cleaning up their EMF environment and lot of things you can do are very simple and they're kind of outlined in the next article but in the final article that will come out on SOTT is going to be devoted to just the things you can do to measure and characterise your environment so that you can take corrective action where you can and improve possibly on orders of magnitude your exposure and clean up your environment just like you would to clean up your diet or do a detox.

So, I think it's very important to work all three of these areas not to mention stress and all the other stuff that you guys have talked about. They're all important but I think EMF deserves a place up there to at least be aware of the environment that you're in and how you can improve on that without going to great lengths.

Doug: Well I think even beyond the studies, a lot of the evidence for this is just how people have managed to improve their situation. By cleaning up the EMF environment and by lowering their exposure and people who have discovered that they are quite sensitive and have taken steps to correct things and how much progress they can actually make there, that's quite telling in it and of itself.

Larry: I agree there Doug. There's a tremendous number of cases of what you are saying and but I guess what I'm trying to say is that for people that are exposed to a high environment and don't know it that they not wait until they become sensitive to do something about it.

Doug: Right yeah. I guess the sensitive people are kind of like the canaries in the coal mine, it's the warning system and we should all be taking heed.

Larry: I think you're 100% right on that and that's why I refer to, Sayer Ji what he has written on celiac disease for example. I think he's right on with that. In the case of celiac we're looking at the tip of the iceberg for cases that are dealing with that and the chronic health effects of gluten in general is huge and it expands the entire list of chronic diseases. So, I feel the same way, the same thing is true for EMF just like he has said.

Jonathan: Well Larry it's been a really fascinating episode just like the first one and I really appreciate you coming on. I think we'll go to Zoya's pet health segment here shortly unless any of our other hosts have any more questions at the moment; you guys?

All: No, I think we've covered everything.

Tiffany: Thanks Larry.

Larry: Ok, well guys have a good one and it was fun and we'll do it again sometime.

Doug: Yeah that'd be great.

Jonathan: Thanks a lot Larry.

Doug: Thanks Larry.

Jonathan: If anybody wants to look up Larry's material on SOTT.net you can search by author for his name Larry Bowers or you can just search for EMF and you'll most likely be able to find his articles there as well as a number of other really good resources from SOTT. And of course Larry's sites these studies he's been talking about in his articles and that's a good jumping out point for anybody who might wanna research this more.

Let's go to Zoya's pet health segment here for today and then we come back we will do our recipe for today. We're going to be talking about pork rinds and how to make ham burger buns out of pork rinds. If you cut bread out of your diet a while back, fear not, you can have hamburger buns again, some zero carbs. So, we'll be back in a little bit and here's Zoya.

Zoya: Hello and welcome to the Pet Health segment of the Health and Wellness show. Today we are going to talk about inflammation. Particularly in cases of various injuries and of wounds and what you can do for your pet using simple things like cold and heat by the way this information can also be applied to humans too.

First, what is inflammation? Inflammation is the body's natural protective response to either some tissue damage from natural wear and tear. It can be as a result from injury or from exercise or exposure to chemicals, heat, some sort of irritation; it can be infectious in nature like infection by bacteria or any other phenomenon.

The inflammation process serves to destroy the wall of both the injurious agent and the injured tissues, so that repair may be effective. In this sense, the inflammation acts as an important sign that the body occupied tries to fight off the damage. The classical signs of inflammation are pain, heat, redness, swelling and loss of function.

So, how does inflammation work? Inflammation develops in three basic stages. First the inflammatory process begins with the short basic constriction, quickly followed by irritation with increased vascular permeability of swelling. Second, the vascular permeability is sustained with phagocytes, cells which ingest and destroy microbes and debris to migrate to the injury site causing increasing swelling and oxidation of fluid from the vessels clustering along the vessel wall, phagytosis of microorganisms' disposal of the accumulated toxins and debris by the macrophage. Third, repair begins with the deposition with fibre in the vessels. The migration of fibre clots cells to the area and the development of new normal tissue cells also known as a scar. This process evolves over several hours, eventually days depending on the severity of the inflammatory problem.

For example within minutes after an injury the irritation of the arterioles the increase in permeability produce heat, oedema and redness unfortunately not seen through the large amount of the warm blood flowing through the area produces both heat and redness as the local temperature rises slightly the various metabolic reactions perceive more rapidly and release additional heat excess oedema results from increased permeability of blood vessels which permit more fluid to move from blood to tissue spaces.

Pain, whether immediate or delayed is a cardinal symptom of inflammation and is responsible for limited movement if not complete immobility. Pain can result from the injury of nerve fibres, from irritation from toxic chemicals from micro organisms or from the increased pressure from excessive oedema. Although healing is initiated by local inflammation, excessive or prolonged inflammation may delay the healing and increase the scar formation potential.

The severity, timing in local character of any particular inflammatory response depends on its cause, the area affected and the condition of the dog or cat; also nutrition, exercise and age in order to be able to deal with inflammation successfully and know what kind of methods to apply we need to be also aware of the stages of inflammation.

There are three main stages, the acute stage of the injury is the first 12-24 hours, the sub-acute stage is the next 24 hours to 72 hours and the chronic stage is beyond 72 hours.

So, let me just explain a bit about the chronic inflammation. The chronic inflammatory process is a prolonged and persistent long red inflammation, marked mainly by new connective tissue formation and occasional flare ups with increased swelling. Over a long period of time, several weeks or months a chronic inflammation can result in several inflammatory cascade problems in the worse environment it might trigger complementary degradation symptoms, such as general tenderness in the nearby tissues like muscle groups, and joint structure. There can be compensatory muscle tension and the mood swings due to overall aching feeling when moving and sometimes it can be accompanied by loss of function.

So, now that we know what inflammation is. How are we going to deal with it, since during the first 24 hours the inflammatory response involves increased permeability of the blood vessels and the resulting oxidation. We can apply cold in form of ice therapy in order to constrict the blood vessels and prevent the excessive oxidation. There are several methods of applying ice or cold therapy to your pets' body; some are more effective than others.

For example magic bags or bean bags that are stored in the freezer are not particularly good at applying cold therapy because they lack the ability to hold on the heat immediate by the body which causes them to warm up very quickly once removed from the freezer. They will not be able to reduce the temperature of soft tissues that are deeper than the surface of the skin.

Homemade ice packs, using alcohol and water can be affected and an inexpensive way to use cold therapy but must be watched with supervision; so as to prevent ingestion. Ice chips, are considered to be the best and least expensive method of applying ice to the body. Ice has a very good heat absorption permeability, which means it is able to absorb a lot of heat from the soft tissues resulting in cooling affect that gets to tissues deeper within the body. This is especially helpful with joints, which tend to have a lot of superficial bone and cartilage which would prevent cold therapies from being effective.

Another possible method is doing the so called ice capped massage of the injured region. Now during the sub-acute stage, after 24 hours and before the 72 hours period after the injury; it's good to do the so called vascular flush. It involves alternating between cold and heat while the application of cold-heat-cold is used closer to the acute stage; where the application of heat-cold-heat is used closer to the chronic stage or after the 72 hours.

Heat is very efficient for the chronic stage, not that with some chronic inflammation especially when there is a flare up; there's a benefit also from the use of cold application. You can use all kinds of things as a source of heat. Either hot water in the bottle, hot towels, heat pads or even heated pad bags. If it's a small area, you can cook an egg, wrap it in a blanket and apply to the injury. If you have an infrared sauna blanket, wrap your pet with a blanket, just remember that heat is contraindicated at the acute stage of inflammation and make sure that it won't be too hot.

Also, ideally both ice and heat should encompass the entire area of inflammation. For example, if your dog has a knee injury; in this case the ice must be applied to the inside and outside and front of the knee to be most effective. To do this, wrap your ice bags with cold damp towels or old pillow cases. If your dog's coat is very thick, the length of time to apply the ice therapy will increase. Apply the ice to the area for 20 minutes at a time stopping to examine the skin every 5-10 minutes. Your pet may not be entirely happy about this, because of the body's naturally physiological response, is to produce a pleasant sensation to prevent it from developing frost bite. What is normal is for the skin to take on a red slightly irritated look. White or firm skin indicates the damage to the skin is taking place and ice therapy is need for it to be stopped immediately. Up to the first 20 minutes; stop and let your pet rest. In some cases the veterinarian will recommend repeating ice sessions, 20 minutes on and 20 minute off several times a day; is basically a general rule for this kind of therapy.

Another thing that can be helpful in case of inflammation is massage therapy. But just like with heat, it is usually contraindicated in the acute stage and in case of injury of the wound that is already infected and there is pus and such. But as I said before, here you indeed may combine both therapy and massage by doing a gentle massage with ice cube to numb the nerve endings providing energetic relief and to cause a vasoconstriction to flush excessive amount of fluids. After 24 hours and depending on the severity of symptoms, the swelling massage technique can be applied. It is very efficient in the sub-acute and chronic stages of inflammation to further this puss and excess fluid build-up and always proceed with a very light touch and gradually progress to more pressure. Keep assessing the animals' eyes, to monitor the pressure. Combined with the heat cold applications and a gentle massage, you will maximise the body's natural healing ability and contribute to speeding up the recovery process. But as always, consult your veterinarian first for proper diagnosis in any situation. Well this is it for today, hope the information was useful.

Have a great day and good bye!

Jonathan: Thanks Zoya that was some great information about inflammation and how to deal with it. I think for a pet and from a human perspective it is an important point she made there, which was that inflammation increases the permeability of your cell walls so that any time that you're in an inflammatory state; as is caused by either toxic exposure, repeated bad diet or like we've been talking about today EMF exposure, that your cells themselves are much more susceptible to damage.

So, it's something we've been talking about and learning about for a while now. A lot of people may not be familiar and just say well inflammation is just what happens naturally and it does but it's a big cause for a lot of the problems that are around these days. Is chronic inflammation, especially from the diet, from the modern American diet. So, speaking of diets for our recipe today we have pork rinds based hamburger buns and I'd like to thank Tiffany and her cohorts there for clueing me up on these recipes.

Tiffany: It was Karen that came up with this whole pork rind revolution.

Jonathan: It's pretty well, but I should clarify, it says zero carbs but it's not exactly zero carbs, it is near zero its very low. The pork rinds themselves have zero carbs but you're using a few other things like eggs and some of your spices, sweetener like xylitol or stevia may have some carbohydrates. But this is still safe, for a Ketogenic diet the amount of carbs are very, very low. So, this was something I came up with based off the oven pan bread recipe, because we were having hamburgers the other night and just thought well let's try to make some buns.

The recipe is: 3 eggs; 3 tablespoons of bacon fat, or 2 tablespoons of ghee, or unsalted butter; 1 tablespoon of bacon fat so you can combine the bacon fat and the butter or you can just use all bacon fat. So, 3 tablespoons and 3 eggs, and then you want 3 ounces of pork rinds which is approximately a bag worth depending on where you get them from.

When you crush them down, it comes out to little over a cup, you'll be looking at like a 1 and a quarter cups; and don't just grab pork rinds from the gas station depending on where you're at. This is something that was new to me because I'm from the northern area of the United States and pork rinds are not readily available here and if they are they're full of nasty preservatives and chemical additives. But apparently and I've recently learned that in the south you can just get pork rinds in a bag that are fried pork skin and salt. And it's just that, there's nothing added so that's really cool. So, you want to find good pork rinds so it should be just be fried pork skin and salt and run those through like a Vitamix or food processor or something to powder it.

You can crush it with your hands but it's not really that effective, it doesn't get down to the fine granular formula you need it to be. So, run it through a blender or a food processor or a Vita-mix, anything like that. So, 1 and a quarter cups or 3 ounces of pork rinds powdered and then 1 and quarter tablespoons of xylitol or if you're using stevia. I would just use 2 teaspoons of stevia.

There's a difference in the level of sweetness there and then 2 teaspoons of baking powder; and 1 tablespoon of apple cider vinegar. You want to mix your crushed pork rinds as well as the sweetener xylitol or stevia and the baking powder; all the dry ingredients together in one bowl.

In another bowl put in your eggs, whip up the eggs into a froth and then add in the bacon fats and the apple cider vinegar to that. Then slowly add your dry ingredients to the wet ingredients and stir together and you'll end up with what's like a batter. It should be pretty thick like the consistency of pancake batter.

Then I lay out a cooking sheet, for me it works really well to put parchment paper down, that way you don't have any problems with it sticking. So, put parchment paper down on a cooking sheet and basically lay out or dab the batter onto the cooking sheet in little rounds and this recipe makes five pretty good size hamburger buns, you could make them smaller and make six.

Then preheat the oven to 350 degrees Fahrenheit and bake for 20 minutes. Just check them before you take them out before the 20 minutes because they should be nice and firm. Take them out, let them cool for about 10 minutes and they don't puff out very much but adding the apple cider vinegar with baking powder allows them to puff up slightly, the combination of the acid and the alkaline creates air bubbles in the material. So, you get semi-puffy hamburger buns but due to the fact that these are pork rinds, there's a lot of protein in there and they're going to be really filling. So it's not like we can just hammer down 2 or 3 hamburgers.

I had two with this recipe the other day and was like, uncomfortably stuffed. So, I took it a little too far, but that's it. Of course when you mix the dry ingredients together you can flavour it a little bit if you wanna make something that's a little bit like a bird-bun; you can add rosemary, thyme, add onion or garlic powder. I actually just added a teaspoon of garlic powder and a teaspoon of onion powder and that resulted in a nice garlic type hamburger bun.

So, that's that and there's on the Cass Forum there are a lot of other recipes around pork rinds. Things like pancakes, a fried pork chop coating, turkey stuffing, pie crusts, chocolate chip cookies, brownies, pan bread tortillas, pizza crust, there's all sorts of things you can do from what we normally consider to be the world of carbs and flour. You can do with pork rinds and eggs with some variations. That's our recipe for today and if you guys have anything to add to that, you might have a little bit more experience on this one?

Tiffany: The only thing I have to add is that they're extremely yummy.

Gaby: I'll have to try that, I've already tried the brownie, I was so happy with them.

Jonathan: They are very good. I did make the tortillas as well and they turned out really well. So, that's our show for today and I would like to say thanks again to Larry for being on this show and offering his expertise in the field of EMF and EMF exposure. And we will be back next week and I believe that we're gonna be covering vitamin D and sun exposure next week.

So, thanks to everybody in our chat as well and please be sure to tune in next week. Just to remind you this is our new time of weekly Fridays at 10am eastern and if you don't catch the live show, you can always go to Blog Talk Radio and search for SOTT, our shows are archived on SOTT talk radio page on Blog Talk Radio. So, thanks again everybody and we will see you next week.