An ever-expanding conversation for those living beyond religious performance

Jul 01, 2011

Living Out of Our Hearts

Religious people who are trying to make sense of their pain end up in some pretty scary places. That launches Brad and Wayne into a conversation about learning to live out of our hearts and not our intellect, which tries to understand what God is doing without a real engagement with him. They discuss the lessons of Job and its unique place in the Old Testament, as well as how in a growing relationship with God, making requests of him to fit what we want makes far less sense than learning to commune with him so we can be part of his unfolding purpose in our lives and in the world around us.

Thanks guys…a timely podcast. This week I’ve been processing some difficult relational situations and I find that so often my “default” position is to run to a system of doing things or a formula that I can work so my desired outcomes will happen. I appreciate being reminded that instead I can run to a Person and live inside a relationship. I also had to smile at how persistent that dog’s barking was…almost as if the dog wished to join the converstion too! : )

An excellent message which I feel encapsulates the true essence of what faith really is. Its not as exciting as the faith message we have been presented with in the Mega Churches, but it is realistic and practical.

On the surface, maybe not as exciting. After a year or so of journeying, I would say it is fully satisfying – something I never found before. I also have come to see how far I was from understanding God when I thought I was doing the greatest works for him. Before what I thought I was looking for was power. And I did find that in God – casting out of devils, and healing were pretty exciting but i still felt empty..lonely even! Since this journey began Ive come to realize I dont feel happy with the big and flashy..its the close and intimate friendship Ive always wanted..thats what i craved..one, just one good genuine relationship. Now that Im starting to have that, its touching the way I live my life. Realistic, yes, practical yes..and o so fulfilling:)

In response to the conversation about our prayer life and why we pray, I agree with Brad that we can just say “Hey God, your neat and I want to hang out with you for a while” and if you are at that place in your Journey that’s cool. But I also suggest that prayer is a means by which we exercise our dependence on Him – not asking Him for things but acknowledging His awesomeness as Creator God and being humbled by being in relationship with the one who set the stars! In the language of The Shack, our sin confuses us into thinking that we can be “independent”, which is a total fallacy in and of itself! Whether we admit it or not, regardless of claiming to be Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, or even Atheist, outside of the Creator God we are nothing and have nothing. He respects us so much that he even allows us to make bad choices, but I think a healthy prayer life produces fertile soil where Holy Spirit can grow us up so we enjoy the freedom that only comes only through embracing our dependence on Him.

I think the Duke study could indicate what I’ve felt for a long time. All you need to do is hand out bottles and diapers when people pass through the doors of the sunday meeting place. Why not? Some are so used to deferring to their pastor for all their decisions in life. They are upset when he or she doesn’t show up at the hospital, when no one calls if they miss a meeting or two, and they consult them for what to do in major life events. The hippocampus has shrunk due to lack of exercise! The stress caused by the conflict between living from our hearts and the ruling authority we’ve chosen to exalt is so damaging. Talk about the regrets of the dying! I can feel my hippocampus getting larger already. I am speaking in generalities, I know there are exceptions, but by and large- shame and fear are at root of our inability to live loved. Unfortunately, there is always someone who is willing to be the guru. Conversely, there will always be those who want a king. I was there for too many years. Thanks to God for His redeeming love!

I like your discussiion on the issue of things going wrong in life and lessons from Job… been thinking alot about emotional healing and how people can move into peace in the midst of pain… especially pain that hangs on from difficulties in childhodd… more and more I am seeing that the focus in people’s minds needs to shift to God’s peace and love in His presence rather than focussing in on trying to fix the effects of pain by ourselves through counselling… not to rule out counselling but there is something very powerful in resting in HIs love and trusting His goodness rather than expecting God to make life rosy. One of our difficulties as humans is that we were created for a garden that was pain free and relationships that were harmonious so now post-fall we are in a world where life seems a couple of sizes too big for us and we dont know what pain is waiting around the corner.

Then when we are wrongly taught that faith can give us what we were made for: peace, health and no poverty then its natural for people to set that up as a belief system because as people we were made for heaven. But its a belief system that crashes because Santa Claus does not kick in… the stuff in this podcast is good stuff for so many believers who just dont know where God is in the difficulties and I’m sure ir will help people silence the voices that would try to say when things arent fixed by God, that they are not good enough for God or that God doesnt really love them.

@Nancy and Dee-I appreciate your insights. This is precisely what I find myself slipping into (“trying to fix things from childhood”…or”believing that when things aren’t fixed by God that they are not good enough for God or that God doesn’t really love them”) It seems over and over that I can grasp those things with my head “Yes! right on!!!”. More and more I am asking Him to make it real in my heart. I believe that this is something only He can do. As encouraging as the podcasts are, they’re only “scaffolding”. There has to be a genuine relationship to engage with a real Person in order to move through pain…and to accept that only He can heal a broken heart in a very personal way for each individual’s unique circumstances. As I’m moving away from trying to find a formula in order to fix these things I am finding it very comforting to move toward asking Him “In this particular situation and with this individual…how would You want me to respond?” This becomes more lifegiving then trying to impose a principle on a situation. I love conversations face to face but it’s neat that we can have “dialogue” through the computer : )