The largest tax increase in American history under the guise of climate change has passed.

Wow, so you wrote a song yet you haven't done any research on your own except to believe everything you are told "because it feels right"...

Not to mention that you have shown no compassion for the families who have lost their jobs.... Nor even any regard for the Bill of Rights of the
nation where you were born....

But anyways congratulations for graduating, maybe you will take a couple of months now to actually study Climate Change and the Constitution, plus the
Bill of Rights of the country where you were born...

The nonsense I am babbling is simple
first off, this whole subject is not a conspiracy, it is a agenda...it was talked about for months..its transparent, its simply a republican talking
point that destroys the point of this website...want to get a repub talking point, there are plenty of websites out there...google rush limbaugh

(CNN) -- Human-induced global warming is real, according to a recent U.S. survey based on the opinions of 3,146 scientists. However there remains
divisions between climatologists and scientists from other areas of earth sciences as to the extent of human responsibility.

Now, who says it isnt real?
lets look at the sources of the name...

sorry, couldnt quickly find any credible people saying it isnt...seems only conservative talkers, conservative politicians, and businesses are putting
out websites for that..

Hmm...who do we listen to...the choir of singing scientists around the world...or some angry conservatives...

Call me strange, but I am going to go with the guys with educations and measuring tools over the ones with the microphones.

the actual analygy is this
a corporation walks up to you, tells you if you want a job, deny global warming...if that fails (if it wasnt for those meddling scientists, I would
have gotten away with it...muahaha)...then simply deny that their pollution is causing it...and if that fails...deny science all together (what has it
given us anyhow besides more ways on how to kill god).

the conspiracy here, and a real one, is how big industry has bought off the bulk of the conservative party to ignore the people and planet.

Big surprise, Mr. Full Disclosure and his crew get the biggest tax increase in our country's history passed late on a Friday. How effing incredible
is it that this won't even make the mainstream news on Monday?

The final straw will be two years from now when they tell us that they were so effective against global warming that the next cooling period is on
it's way. After they take massive amount of cap and trade money they'll go after any surviving industries and force them to dramatically increase
their CO2 emissions to combat that.

Is it just me, or if this was Bush would he be absolutely lambasted for being so stupid as to thing he could control the patterns of global climate
change?

Originally posted by Fullblast
Love how I, as an American, am painted as selfish, because I am intelligent enough to know that man made Global Warming is myth based on bad
science.

Do some research. Anthony Watts site was voted best science blog of 2008 and it has more information than most of the uninformed global warming crowd
will ever bother to read.

I am ashamed of the corruption in my government.

Regardless of the cause there is the usual push back by American's when they have to contribute to something. Usually it is a case of do as you say
but not as you do. You cannot lead by example. You cannot contribute to the UN you demand a veto in everything you demand that we do this or that
for our finances which has nothing to do with you. You demand you have control of our intelligence services you demand you have military bases in our
countries but we dare not demand the same thing in return.

Go out and look as to why American's are hated the world over. Two faced, greedy, selfish, demanding and do not contribute anything to the rest of
the world except suffering and demands.

Go back to your own country and be American, don't do it in ours.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by zorkthegreat]

I would love nothing more than for America to start concentrating on ourselves.

We are not appreciated for what we have done, and we will always be painted as the bad guys.

Let the world get by without us for a while. See how that shakes out for everyone.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by Fullblast]

What have you done? Really apart from suffering, industrial espionage and stealing technology?

You are blind and kid yourself on how great you are, really you are nothing but trouble.

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen
Climate change is real and something has to be done.

There is no proof that 'climate change' is manmade. In fact, most evidence says that it's natural and cyclical.

Now you can join the civilized world again

I have a comment for this but I can't say it. I'd be banned.

Actually the NWO is a good idea, if USA is full of selfish people who don't care about the world. Then you will submit. I, for one, now
welcome our NWO overlords. I noticed that the Americans are so selfish people I want the NWO to control you.

Oh .. that explains it.

I have another comment ... just think Red Foreman ....

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen
Ever heard about Kyoto treaty? I bet you haven't.

You lost that bet.

Have you ever read the Kyoto treaty? If you had, then you'd know why America was against it. It's anti-American business while at the same time it
turns a blind eye to pollution being dumped into the atmosphere in massive levels by developing nations and by China.

Sounds like you are just spouting talking point phrases without even understanding what they entail.

Originally posted by zorkthegreat
but not be accountable is in their DNA it seems.

I hit the alert button on that. 'in the genes' eh? :shk:
Americans are very diverse in their gene pool.
Your statement is bizzare.

Originally posted by zorkthegreat
there is the usual push back by American's when they have to contribute to something.

You have no clue, do ya'?? I suggest you educate yourself on just how charitable the American people are verses others around the world.

Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times
as much as the Italians. Similarly, in 1998, Americans were 15 percent more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 percent more likely than
the Swiss, and 32 percent more likely than the Germans. These differences are not attributable to demographic characteristics such as education,
income, age, sex, or marital status. On the contrary, if we look at two people who are identical in all these ways except that one is European and the
other American, the probability is still far lower that the European will volunteer than the American

And that's just from our own pockets. Our tax money is given out in charity from Washington in the form of foreign aid and grants - such as the tens
of billions that is being spent on AIDS research in Africa - and the hundreds of millions that went to the tsunami survivors, etc

Originally posted by zorkthegreat
Its so terrible to contribute to society isn't it. This thread will be mostly rants of American's wanting to be greedy and selfish again and not
contribute. Their right to have a car and pollute but not be accountable is in their DNA it seems.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by zorkthegreat]

Hey I have had enough of me contributing to society. I have just spent 2 months offshore and I have one month to go. In these 3 months I have just
contributed $11100.00 to society in taxes. So # off # head I don't need anymore taxes. I hate You #ing dems and I can't wait for You know what
because justice will be served. You people act like We are so selfish but yet You pieces of # do nothing to contribute to society except for consuming
my wages and tearing up our roads.

Really, I pay 50% of my wages on TAX contributing and 25% on sales tax.

I also get off my fat arse and help people. What do you do again?

American's come over here and unfortunately our country gives them a tax break and they pay 25% just, WTF, I do more work and give more and
contribute double that then you leave and take everything back and still want our healthcare and we give it then when you don't get your way you
manipulate and threaten us to get your way. Some people here even pay 80% of their wages in tax to contribute. Yet all you do is dictate to us. I
FOR ONE WELCOME NORTH KOREA AND IRAN TAKING ON AMERICA. Why? because the enemy of my enemy is my friend. (Snip)

I'm not going to get into a shouting match with you. I'm just going to point out that the entire world, including you, spends a lot of it's
valuable time telling us that we're not as important as we think we are.

Take from that what you will.

The world is lucky to have us, and they show it every day by telling us how much they hate us.

I hated my parents until I grew up. I told them that all the time. Yet for some reason, they did everything they could to make my life better.

I don't know where you're from, and I don't care. We'll keep taking care of you buddy. Sleep tight tonight, even if you won't thank us for that
luxury first.

I can't wait to see the faces of these congressmen and congresswomen, along with all their supporters, once it because public knowledge that global
warming isn't actually happening. Or at least not happening because of human pollution. With the size of the icecaps INCREASING year over year for
the past couple of years and the Earth's ability to pretty much recover from ANYTHING we do to it, there are going to be a whole lot of feet in
mouths in the relatively near future.

I'm actually a Human Ecology major come the fall and I'm spent the past four years studying primarily the sciences. I've done tons of research, you
can go look at some of my threads.

Honestly even if it's not Global Warming you can't deny that some climate change is happening because of us. Even just pollution and deforestation
which has nothing to do with CO2.

We should be increasing taxes for this. We should get rid of our dependence on oil. No matter what, that has to happen.

You pay attention to the research you want to believe. So do I. But I'd rather be safe than sorry. And I'm a liberal, I don't trust businesses and
people to begin with, and I'd rather trust the government to regulate all the greedy money makers in business and take my chances with the people in
government.

Oh boy, here we go an article from CNN which has nothing more than "claims".....

Let's see if i can actually provide some real proof against the Global Warming Hoax...

To the claim that we have hadthe warmest years in the history of mankind, or the fastest Climate Change to ever occur....

On-line Publication Documentation System for Stockholm University
Full DescriptionUpdate record

Publication type: Article in journal (Reviewed scientific)
Author: Grudd, H (Department of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology)
Title: Torneträsk tree-ring width and density ad 500–2004: a test of climatic sensitivity and a new 1500-year reconstruction of north Fennoscandian
summers
In: Climate Dynamics
Publisher: Springer, Berlin / Heidelberg
Volume: 31
Pages: 843-857
Year: 2008
Available: 2009-01-30
ISSN: 1432-0894
Department: Department of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology
Language: English [en]
Subject: Physical geography, Climatology
Abstract: This paper presents updated tree-ring width (TRW) and maximum density (MXD) from Torneträsk in northern Sweden, now covering the period ad
500–2004. By including data from relatively young trees for the most recent period, a previously noted decline in recent MXD is eliminated.
Non-climatological growth trends in the data are removed using Regional Curve Standardization (RCS), thus producing TRW and MXD chronologies with
preserved low-frequency variability. The chronologies are calibrated using local and regional instrumental climate records. A bootstrapped response
function analysis using regional climate data shows that tree growth is forced by April–August temperatures and that the regression weights for MXD
are much stronger than for TRW. The robustness of the reconstruction equation is verified by independent temperature data and shows that 63–64% of
the instrumental inter-annual variation is captured by the tree-ring data. This is a significant improvement compared to previously published
reconstructions based on tree-ring data from Torneträsk. A divergence phenomenon around ad 1800, expressed as an increase in TRW that is not
paralleled by temperature and MXD, is most likely an effect of major changes in the density of the pine population at this northern tree-line site.
The bias introduced by this TRW phenomenon is assessed by producing a summer temperature reconstruction based on MXD exclusively. The new data show
generally higher temperature estimates than previous reconstructions based on Torneträsk tree-ring data. The late-twentieth century, however,
is not exceptionally warm in the new record: On decadal-to-centennial timescales, periods around ad 750, 1000, 1400, and 1750 were equally warm, or
warmer. The 200-year long warm period centered on ad 1000 was significantly warmer than the late-twentieth century (p < 0.05)
and is supported by other local and regional paleoclimate data. The new tree-ring evidence from Torneträsk suggests that this “Medieval Warm
Period” in northern Fennoscandia was much warmer than previously recognized.

Nile gauge records of variations in Nile floods from the 9th century to the 15th century AD reveal pronounced episodes of low Nile and high Nile flood
discharge. Historical data reveal that this period was also characterized by the worst known famines on record. Exploratory comparisons
of variations in Nile flood discharge with high-resolution data on sea surface temperature of the North Atlantic climate from three case studies
suggest that rainfall at the source of the Nile was influenced by the North Atlantic Oscillation. However, there are apparently flip-flop reversals
from periods when variations in Nile flood discharge are positively related to North Atlantic warming to periods where the opposite takes place. The
key transitions occur atAD 900, 1010, 1070, 1180, 1350 and 1400. The putative flip-flop junctures, which require further confirmation, appear to be
quite rapid and some seem to have had dramatic effects on Nile flood discharge, especially if they recurred at short intervals, characteristic of the
period from the 9th to the 14th century, coincident with the so-called Medieval Warm Period. The transition from one state to the other
was characterized by incidents of low, high or a succession of both low and high extreme floods. The cluster of extreme floods was detrimental
causing famines and economic disasters that are unmatched over the last 2000 years.

Ooops, I guess today's limate change hasn't been neither the fastest, nor the worse. There ahve been dramatic Climate Changes which have occurred
within a decade, and even some within a few years. that is meanwhile the Left has been claiming we are in the fastest Climate Change since the 90s,
and in some cases since the 80s, which makes it at least a decade, if not two decades old HOAX.

The Climate changes ALL the time by itself, and it doesn't stop because a group of people have decided "this is the best type of climate that should
exist"...

But hey, maybe it wasn't so warm as it is now during the Medieval Warm period right?...

The Little Ice Age, from around 1300 to 1800, and medieval warming, from before 1000 to around 1300 in South Africa, are shown to be distinctive
features of the regional climate of the last millennium. The proxy climate record has been constituted from oxygen and carbon isotope and colour
density data obtained from a well-dated stalagmite derived from Cold Air Cave in the Makapansgat Valley.
The climate of the interior of South Africa was around 1oC cooler in the Little Ice Age and may have been over 3°C higher than at present
during the extremes of the medieval warm period. It was variable throughout the millennium, but considerably more so during the warming of the
eleventh to thirteenth centuries. Extreme events in the record show distinct teleconnections with similar events in other parts of the
world, in both the northern and southern hemispheres. The lowest temperature events recorded during the Little Ice Age in South Africa are
shown to be coeval with the Maunder and Sporer Minima in solar irradiance. The medieval warming is shown to have been coincided with the cosmogenic
10Be and 14C isotopic maxima recorded in tree rings elsewhere in the world during the Medieval Maximum in solar radiation.

Those are valid points, I never stated this was the hottest time (pangea used to get what..125 degrees average, sometimes alot more)...nor the fastest
rise.

consider the article you posted...it talks about history, about rapid rise in the temp of the planet...this caused global famine, death, etc...I think
since we have the ability and technology, we should try to control it this time around, make the impact less, stop with things potentially
contributing, and then come up with tech on how to reverse it.

Your not going to change my mind about how I am concerned about the warming, I am not going to change your mind about how its all just a hoax and we
should do nothing. I say we simply nod on a civil disagreement. your points are well made though and I do find a certain comfort in it...that even
if everything fails completely, its not the end sorta thing.

The ignorance portrayed by the supporters of this bill.... no, the Naiveness of these imbeciles is honestly saddening to me. Because you want to help
the World, as do I, and you thought you had this man in office who cared just as much as you do... and he lied...

The fundamental purpose of this bill is GOOD, in fact, I see no reason why it couldn't be stricter as far as how much renewable energy must be
used..

However.. I am not so naive as to think that this bill will help or change anything.

This bill will fleece the pockets of "Climate Change" groups, huge corporations, it will destroy small businesses, it will cause hundreds of
thousands to loose there jobs to make way for jobs that will hire one man for every 10 fired. LOOK TO SPAIN .. where they did this several years ago,
and was a leading factor in the Spanish economy melting down.

"Climate Change" is a myth, the Earth is constantly changing. I agree we need less dependency on foreign oil, I agree since we have the technology
for greener fuels we should use them. I agree that cutting pollution can only be a good thing.

But there is a good and a bad way of reaching those goals. This was the single worst possible way.

But what can you do.. at the G20 protest who was the largest group present? Climate Change. The propaganda that flooded the net into the minds of
the most ignorant of our population worked flawlessly.. and just like their masters could predict these lowly individuals (and if you support this
bill, you are indeed lowly to me) would not look change their own life styles on their own, no, they would look to the source of comfort, their
government.

Well damn you, damn you all for you have taken this Nation one step closer to the edge.

Abstract The collected documentary records of the cultivation of citrus trees andBoehmeria nivea (a perennial herb) have been used to produce
distribution maps of these plants for the eighth, twelfth and thirteenth centuries A.D. The northern boundary of citrus andBoehmeria nivea cultivation
in the thirteenth century lay to the north of the modern distribution. During the last 1000 years, the thirteenth-century boundary was the
northernmost. This indicates that this was the warmest time in that period. On the basis of knowledge of the climatic conditions required for planting
these species, it can be estimated that the annual mean temperature in south Henan Province in the thirteenth century was 0.9–1.0°C higher
than at present. A new set of data for the latest snowfall date in Hangzhou from A.D. 1131 to 1264 indicates that this cannot be considered a
cold period, as previously believed.

But hey, that just happened once in recent history, so it is a fluke right?...

Decline Of Roman And Byzantine Empires 1,400 Years Ago May Have Been Driven By Climate Change

ScienceDaily (Dec. 6, 2008) — The decline of the Roman and Byzantine Empires in the Eastern Mediterranean more than 1,400 years ago may have
been driven by unfavorable climate changes.

Based on chemical signatures in a piece of calcite from a cave near Jerusalem, a team of American and Israeli geologists pieced together a detailed
record of the area's climate from roughly 200 B.C. to 1100 A.D. Their analysis, to be reported in an upcoming issue of the journal Quaternary
Research, [size]reveals increasingly dry weather from 100 A.D. to 700 A.D. that coincided with the fall of both Roman and Byzantine rule in the
region.

The above coincides with the Roman Warm Period, which several records including the Sargasso Sea data shows to have been a lot warmer than the 20th
century warming.

I can't paste and copy form the following due to Copyright issues, but if you are "actually interested" the following shows you an idea of what the
climate was during the Roman, the Medieval, the LIA (Little Ice Age) and the temperature up until 1997-8. www2.tu-berlin.de...

Ok, so we have had WARMER climate change in the past such as the Medieval Warm period, and the Roman Warm Period even though the atmospheric CO2 did
not change much.

But the Global Warming crowd has proof with their GCMS (aka flawed computer models) right? These models are perfect, they are 95% certain
right?...

The widely accepted (albeit unproven) theory that manmade global warming will accelerate itself by creating more heat-trapping clouds is
challenged this month in new research from The University of Alabama in Huntsville.

Instead of creating more clouds, individual tropical warming cycles that served as proxies for global warming saw a decrease in the coverage of
heat-trapping cirrus clouds, says Dr. Roy Spencer, a principal research scientist in UAHuntsville's Earth System Science Center.

That was not what he expected to find.

"All leading climate models forecast that as the atmosphere warms there should be an increase in high altitude cirrus clouds, which would
amplify any warming caused by manmade greenhouse gases," he said. "That amplification is a positive feedback. What we found in
month-to-month fluctuations of the tropical climate system was a strongly negative feedback. As the tropical atmosphere warms, cirrus clouds decrease.
That allows more infrared heat to escape from the atmosphere to outer space."

The results of this research were published today in the American Geophysical Union's "Geophysical Research Letters" on-line edition. The paper was
co-authored by UAHuntsville's Dr. John R. Christy and Dr. W. Danny Braswell, and Dr. Justin Hnilo of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory,
Livermore, CA.

Geographically distributed predictions of future climate, obtained through climate models, are widely used in hydrology and many other disciplines,
typically without assessing their reliability. Here we compare the output of various models to temperature and precipitation observations from eight
stations with long (over 100 years) records from around the globe. The results show that models perform poorly, even at a climatic (30-year)
scale. Thus local model projections cannot be credible, whereas a common argument that models can perform better at larger spatial scales is
unsupported.

Received: 13 September 2004 Accepted: 25 February 2005 Published online: 27 April 2005

Abstract Observations from the International Satellite Cloud Climatalogy Project (ISCCP) are used to demonstrate that the 19-level HadAM3
version of the United Kingdom Met Office Unified Model does not simulate sufficient high cloud over land. By using low-altitude winds, from the
European Centre for Medium Range Weather Forecasting (ECMWF) Re-Analysis from 1979 to 1994 (ERA-15) to predict the areas of maximum likelihood of
orographic wave generation, it is shown that much of the deficiency is likely to be due to the lack of a representation of the orographic
cirrus generated by sub-grid scale orography. It is probable that this is a problem in most GCMs.

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