On reflection it struck me that Dr. Waldron's argument against ongoing spiritual gifts would be equivalent to saying that authentic writing about the Christian faith can no longer occur because the actual writing of Scripture has ceased. Authentic preaching can no longer occur because the authoritative preaching of the first Apostles has ceased. Authentic missionarywork can no longer occur because Apostolic authority was not conferred on individuals after the first century. Dr. Waldron does not hold to these conclusions, but on what basis? His argument for cessation of spiritual gifts could be equally applied to the three issues mentioned above. If there can be writing, preaching and missionary work beyond the passing of the Apostles, why can't there be a form of spiritual gifting that continues without them? We have the written Canon by which all writing and preaching and missionary calling can be judged as genuine or spurious. Why shouldn't the canonized Apostolic authority of the Bible be sufficient to guide us in the proper use of spiritual gifts? In an ironic way, cessationism becomes an argument against the sufficiency of Scripture! Isn't Scripture sufficient for the proper management of the spiritual gifts?

We are not talking about people having the ability to heal or prophesy at will; we are talking about godly, Spirit-empowered, doctrinally sound Gospel preachers who walk by the Spirit and submit themselves to His holy leading while regularly engaging in particular spiritual gifts when and as He enables them for the spreading of the Word of Christ. Why won't more cessationist apologists address thiskind of continuationism? Is their argument so weak that it needs the shock effect of obviously false charismatic abuses and heresies in order to stand?

In comparing the Biblical merits of Dr. Waldron's arguments as opposed to Dr. Brown's, I have to conclude that the answer is "yes." Gratefully, Dr. Waldron did not resort to that kind of sensationalism in presenting his cessationist arguments.

With all of that said, I should add that the only safe way to be "charismatic" is to be firmly grounded in a Reformed understanding of the sovereignty of God, the Great Gift Giver, and in sound Biblical doctrine. Then again, that is the only safe way to do anything.

I should also add that I would much prefer a Biblically sound, Gospel-centered cessationist to an off-balance and unstable charismatic clown of the type that is so often showcased in today's "charismatic" circles (you've probably seen them on TV and YouTube). Interestingly enough, many of my Pentecostal friends would agree with the statement I have just made.

5 comments:

I know it seems hard to believe, but I spent a number of years studying and serving among conservative classical Pentecostals who were just as offended and disgusted by TBN and the like as you and I are today. I left all of that more than 10 years ago. Back in the day, however, I walked closely with Pentecostal men who were Biblically grounded, preached the cross, rejected hyper-faith, despised the prosperity gospel, and publicly spoke out against things like the Brownsville "Revival" and the Toronto "Blessing." There is a surprisingly wide range of belief among those who self-identify as Charismatic and/or Pentecostal.

Another interesting thing I observed: some classical Pentecostals refused to accept the label, "Charismatic." They would say, "We are PENTECOSTAL, not charismatic!" And this distinction seemed very important to them.

Thank you for your post. It would seem that one may come to a ceasationist view 1. by over dividing the Scripture (1 Corinthians 13 has been butchered) or 2. by the so call "christians" making a mockery of themselves and putting a shame on the name of Jesus Christ with so called gifts, who disregard and twist the Scriptures.This makes any Bible believing, God fearing person want to walk in the opposite dirrection.

We should not extricate ourselves from the moving of the Holy Spirit, but embrace it in the way in which the Father desires to be worshiped, not chasing after the vainity of this world which is so often the case of this modern "churches" that have unseen high places devoted to their gods.

A slew of great God loving and fearing men and women have graced us who believe in the continuous work of God among His people. To note David Wilkerson, Art Kats, A.W. Tozer, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Corrie Ten Boom, Chuck Smith, Etc...

As one of your pentecostal friends, I do agree with your conclusions, Derek! I didn't have time to listen to the debate, but your summary is similar to what I often hear regarding objections to continuationism. The focus seems to always shift to the abuses and to the fringe elements - and these examples can't rightly be labeled "pentecostal" anyway, because they behave unbiblically, and to be truly pentecostal, one must be biblical.

Feel free to respond to anything written in the posts, or to the comments left by others. All comments are reviewed before they are published.

Please be charitable. If you disagree, do so with grace. Keep your words positive, focused, and on-topic. We don't expect everyone to agree, but we do expect everyone to treat everyone else with respect and grace, speaking the truth in love.

About the THEOparadox Team

Derek Ashton,Founder:I know enough about myself to be completely amazed that God loves me. His grace toward me has been abundant and overwhelming. I thank Him that I've been married to my beautiful bride since 1996. I have the privilege of raising two wonderful children who are gifts from God. (Read my testimony here).

Emeritus Team Members:Tony Hayling:Learn more about Tony at his site, Agonizomai.

THEOparadox MISSION Statement:

~To honor God by upholding the authority, inerrancy and sufficiency of His Word, the Bible.~To help students of the Word to interpret Biblical paradoxes in a way that faithfully reflects God's heart.~To ignite a devotional flame that will help believers to warm up their theology and burn up their pride.~To encourage Christian faith by resolving or explaining apparent contradictions in the Scriptures.~To explore the nature and extent of paradoxes in historically orthodox, Reformed, Biblical theology.

~To provide Biblical resources for those who desire to know God and His Word better.

~To glorify the Lord Jesus Christ, the Friend of sinners and the Savior of the lost.

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Theology Meets Geometry

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Feel free to respond to anything written in the posts, or to the comments left by others.

Please be charitable. If you disagree, do so with grace. Keep your words positive, focused, and on-topic. We don't expect everyone to agree, but we do expect everyone to treat everyone else with respect and grace, speaking the truth in love.

Thanks!Mgmt.

Followers

"Heresy is born whenever the Church fails to pray a tension."

"Hyper-Calvinism and Arminianism both result from the same problem: A tension-deficient disorder."

"Human beings are incredibly good over-compensators."

What is a PARADOX?

A tenet or proposition contrary to received opinion, or seemingly absurd, yet true in fact.

Noah Webster, American Dictionary of the English Language, 1828 Edition

"... it is synonymous with apparent contradiction. A 'paradox' thus amounts to a set of claims which taken in conjunction appear to be logically inconsistent. Note that according to this definition, paradoxicality does not entail logical inconsistency per se, but merely the appearance of logical inconsistency."

James Anderson, Paradox in Christian Theology

Wise Words ...

"The juxtaposition of words and ideas that don't usually go together make the real point stand out for us more clearly. And some truths in the Christian life are best expressed as oxymorons - paradoxical language."

~Phil Johnson

Wise Words . . .

"By advocating paradox I don't want to give the impression that I'm giving a carte blanche to not think philosophically, to not think deeply, about these doctrines. Quite the opposite. . . . My position is that with each of these doctrines we reflect on them as hard as we can, we penetrate them as best we can based on the Scriptural data that we do have, but we also recognize that there are going to be limits, and that those limits are actually a positive thing and not a reflection of some inherent problem in the doctrines or in the process of theological reflection. . . . I think we can make progress, we can make

considerable progress, in understanding these doctrines and resolving some of the . . . initial difficulties that we have with them, but at the same time recognizing that we're always only going to get so far and when we bump up against the limits of our capacity to formulate them in certain ways or to resolve certain difficulties in them, we

shouldn't be too concerned about that. We certainly shouldn't say, 'Okay, we need to admit that Christians are ultimately irrationalists.' No. We don't need to say that at all. . . . It's a Biblically constrained rationality. It's a middle way between rationalism, of which I think [Gordon H.] Clark was a representative, and irrationalism, of which, to take an example I think the Neo-Orthodox - Karl Barth - would be an example, where you're saying that there are actual contradictions in there. So I think it's navigating a Biblical middle way between these two extremes: having too high a view of the human intellect, and perhaps too low a view of the intellect, of our ability to know the things

of God."

~Dr. James Anderson

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The Gospel

God lovingly sacrificed His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, for a depraved and law-breaking humanity's only way to be saved from His just wrath, and through His death and resurrection graciously sanctified and secured forever all those who believe on Him - for their ultimate good and His eternal glory.

The following quotation was found in a recent post on a popular Arminian blog . It is by James Arminius, the founder of Arminianism, and pur...

Theological Paradoxes

Below I have listed some of the classic theological paradoxes (and a few interesting ironies, too) . . .

~The Trinity- God is One being revealed in three distinct persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)~God is transcendent(separate from His creation) yet immanent(in His creation)~Omnipresence- God is always present everywhere, yet He sometimes speaks of Himself as "present" in a special way~The Incarnation- God became a man~The Virgin Birth - A Jewish virgin gave birth to the Son of God~The Two Natures of Christ - Jesus is fully (100%) God and fully (100%) man

~The Atonement is sufficient to save every person, but efficient only for those who believe~God is completely sovereign (in control of everything, everywhere, all the time) yet He is not the author of sin and he uses human choice to accomplish His purposes~Inspiration of Scripture - The Bible was written by sinful human beings yet it is the inerrant and flawless Word of God~Divine Revelation - Sinful man cannot comprehend God, yet God reveals Himself to sinful man~Sanctification- Christians are sinners by nature, but saints by grace~Suffering- God brings His joy and comfort into our lives through our experiences of pain, disappointment and suffering

There are many others. Paradox is everywhere when we attempt to understand God's ways in a genuinely Biblical way.

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The Apostles' Creed

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,Born of the virgin Mary,Suffered under Pontius Pilate,Was Crucified, dead and buried

He descended into Hades;The third day He rose again from the dead;He ascended into heaven,and sits on the right hand of God the Father Almighty

From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.I believe in the Holy Spirit,The holy catholic (i.e., universal) Church,The communion of saints;the forgiveness of sins;the resurrection of the body;and the life everlasting. Amen