CNN’s Chris Cuomo–who is on fire today, having also gotten Kellyanne Conway to admit that, despite popular belief, she is not, in fact, Inspector Gadget–interviewed King to see if he really meant what it sounded like he meant, namely that “destiny” and “culture and demographics” is a lazily concealed code for racial purity. Here’s your chance to defend yourself, King! “What did you mean?”

His actual response: “Well, of course I meant exactly what I said, as it always is the case, Chris.”

Ugh, you’re really not helping yourself here, Steve.

He expanded on that, saying he’d spoken in Europe about this many times, to German people and other groups with declining birth rates.

You cannot rebuild your civilization with somebody else’s babies. You’ve got to keep your birth rate up, and that you need to teach your children your values,” King said, paraphrasing remarks he said he’s delivered to audiences in Europe. “In doing so, you can grow your population, you can strengthen your culture, and you can strengthen your way of life.

Cuomo, here and throughout the entire interview, doesn’t pull any punches, and doesn’t let King get away with any bullcrap euphemisms. He asks directly, “Who are ‘somebody else’s babies?'”

At that point, King starts to talk about how if you “take a picture of what America looks like,” you see “all kinds of Americans there,” and he says, “we’re pretty proud of that, the different looking Americans that are still Americans.”

Eeeeesh, okay. That “different looking” comment is pretty weird and superficial language to use in talking about racial diversity, but in further talking about how Americans need to focus on the “American culture, American civilization,” maybe this is more xenophobia than straight-up racism, not that that is in any way more acceptable. So he wants Americans to only have babies with other Americans? To keep American culture strong? Although that doesn’t explain why he thinks we need to “restore” our society? Does he think a dangerous number of Americans are having babies with foreign tourists and undocumented immigrants and giving birth to future expatriate terrorists? What is in need of restoring and rebuilding here?

Oh, wouldn’t you know it? As it turns out, that “American” culture as King sees it doesn’t turn out to be all that inclusive of all those “different looking Americans.” Shocking, I know.

King, at one point, seems to be trying to go in the I don’t even see color direction. He thinks “there’s been far too much focus on race, especially in the last eight years.” GEE, I WONDER WHAT HAS MADE HIM THINK MORE ABOUT RACE OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS. He wants to see that put behind us, and says he can’t wait for the day, “down the road a few generations, or maybe centuries, with the inter-marriage, I’d like to see an America that is just so homogenous that we look a lot the same.”

Sure, but what do we think that homogeny looks like? In his utopian post-racial society, what traits are he hoping get washed away? If every American is an equal American. Oh, hold up. You’re saying King doesn’t think all Americans are equal Americans? The surprises just keep coming, don’t they?

Is this a good time to mention that this is Cuomo’s face through pretty much the entire interview?

King keeps insisting that he never said anything about race, but rather about culture, as he is a self-proclaimed “champion of Western civilization.” But Cuomo pushes:

A Muslim American, an Italian-American, a Christian American, a Jewish American, you do realize that they are all equal, right? They are all the same thing. You don’t need babies from one of those groups more than we need them from other groups. Do you agree with that?

After a very long pause and some more back and forth, King starts in on talking about “moderate Muslims,” which Cuomo interrupts to remind King they’re talking about Muslim Americans. Aren’t they included in this “America first” rhetoric? King, though, harps on how many families teach hatred in their families, as if–as Cuomo immediately points out–there aren’t tons of white families who teach hatred in their homes as well.

But that hate, as King makes it easy to presume he believes, is American hate. And as far as he’s concerned, that’s a-okay. Muslim hate? Mexican hate? Liberal hate? Then we’re all just too focused on identity politics (although someone please tell me what King’s politics are based in if not 100% his own identity of a racist, xenophobic white man), and need to give into the big whitewashing baby factory melting pot of Steve King’s beige utopia.

TL;DR?

Chris Cuomo: [paraphrasing] Americans of all backgrounds are equal right?

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Vivian Kane (she/her) has a lot of opinions about a lot of things. Born in San Francisco and radicalized in Los Angeles, she now lives in Kansas City, Missouri with her husband Brock Wilbur and too many cats.