Can you just, um, first of all I need for you to sign this release.It's--it's just a matter of policy for us to utilize these. (clearsthroat)

WALKER: Sure

LANE: Yeah, that's all you need to do. Thank you so much. Would you

review for the record your professional history leading up to yourposition here at KCTCS?

WALKER: Sure. I, uh, uh, I'll go back to graduate school--

LANE: --sure--

WALKER: --that's, um, I did my undergraduate work in mathematics and

graduate work in statistics; both at the University of Kentucky. And,um, in 1976--June of '76--I joined the staff of what was then theKentucky Council on Public Higher Education. As the--and not many1:00people--

LANE: --I had no idea--

WALKER: --knew that that was the--

LANE: --1976--

WALKER: --knew that the--the word public was in the title then. And,

um, I became the, uh, the staff statistician. Uh, and as I recall,the first professionally trained statistician that that staff had had.And, um, in--uh, 1980, I had a chance to join the finance staff atthe Council. And then in 1985 I became the, uh, the title then was thedeputy executive director for finance--the chief finance officer forwhat by then had become the Council on Higher Education.

LANE: Right the public had been dropped--

WALKER: --public had been removed. I think in, uh, around '80 or '81,

um, it was done by statute. I don't remember exactly the circumstances2:00of that, but, uh, but I became the chief financial officer in 1985.And, um, then I stayed at the Council--the Council became Council onPostsecondary Education. It--with the passage of House Bill 1 in 1997.And I became, um, the first vice president for finance for CPE. Andthen I stayed in that position until June of 2000, in which I--in Juneof 2000 I came to KCTCS, and have been the, uh, KCTCS Vice Presidentand Chief Financial Officer, um, since--since that time.

LANE: Great. Great. So I wasn't sure of when you came, looking back at

the massive records. Which is what I've been doing for the last year;just collecting everything, and we've put it into a massive timelineof every detail we can find. So that's good to know. I knew your name3:00appeared many times throughout that, but I wasn't exactly sure when youcame on board.

WALKER: Yes.

LANE: (clears throat) Um, how did that happen? Who--who called you? Of

course you'd been keeping up with all the goings on, and I want to talkabout that just a little bit in a minute, but, um, um, how did you cometo KCTCS?

WALKER: Well that--that is an interesting--that's a good question.

And it's an interesting story in that, um, uh, the--the first, uh,vice president primarily responsible for finance for KCTCS, um, hadretired, uh, in December of 1999. And, uh, President McCall appointed,uh, in the interim, for Vice President, Jim Byford, who was also thesystem director for budget and financial planning. Jim had had a long4:00career, uh, in government, uh, in state government, with, uh, technicaleducation in--in--

LANE: --I see--

WALKER: -- in starting with the Department of Education and Workforce

Development Cabinet. So Jim had--was a--was a very experienced, uh,individual. And, um, so, uh, of course I was still in Frankfort, and,uh, was neck deep in the legislative work with the 2000 session. Thatwas the--that was the first legislative session that Gordon Davies wasat the Council as president. So--

LANE: --and the Council was newly reconfigured, so you were neck deep--

WALKER: --oh yes--very--very--yes a lot of details. We were--we were

working on, uh, the, uh, what the statute calls the, uh, um, I don't5:00remember if it was a term like strategic vision, or something likethat--

LANE: --um-hm--um-hm--

WALKER: --but anyway the Council had an assignment to, uh, to prepare,

uh, what--what came--became 2020 Vision.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: So--so with the work--work with legislature, and working on the

2020 Vision document and--and all that--um, you know, I--I was verybusy. And, um, uh, actually nobody--nobody from here called--calledme. Um, the, uh, uh, Jim Byford apparently indicated that he was notinterested in pursuing the position on a permanent basis. Uh, therewas a, um, uh, uh, the president advertised for the position, and, uh,6:00I mean he would have done that anyway had Jim been a candidate.

LANE: Right--right.

WALKER: But, uh, but, uh, uh, it--and the ad ran at just the right time.

I--I've told people that if it, uh, had run a month earlier I would--Iwould of not noticed it because of--

LANE: --what you were doing--

WALKER: --what I was doing. If it had run a month later we would

have already been preparing for the next session, and I might not ofresponded to it. But I saw the ad run and, uh, so I called, uh, BethHilliard, who I knew. Uh, I had worked with Beth when she was in stategovernment. And, uh, asked Beth if, um, if it was an open search.Because I didn't want to get, you know,--

LANE: --sure--

WALKER: --if it were, you know, if there was an inside candidate--

LANE: --right--right--is it truly an open search? Sure, that's a fair

question--

WALKER: --is it truly an open search? And she said yes, it's an

7:00absolutely open search. And so, um, so I called President McCall andtalked with him, and told him that I might be interested in it, and,uh, and, uh, he--he said he would be interested in me applying. And,uh, so then I think the next week, uh, I met with Gordon Davies, andtold him that I was interested in--in applying for the position, and Iremember Gordon was very supportive. And he said, well you'd be crazynot to. And so went through the search process and, uh, and was, uh,was hired.

LANE: Here you are.

WALKER: Here I am.

LANE: Terrific. Had you been involved in the transition Ken? You know

we had a year and a half there after the law was--House Bill 1 wassigned, and before Dr. McCall came on board. We had, uh, your--allsorts of things going on during that time. Were you a part of that8:00transition team?

WALKER: I was not a member of the transition team. But I attended every

meeting.

LANE: I see.

WALKER: Yes.

LANE: Okay.

WALKER: There were no CPE members or staff members on that transition

team.

LANE: Okay. Okay.

WALKER: But--but we all--but several of us followed it very closely.

LANE: That's right. Ron Carson was, but he was deputy state budget

director at the time.

WALKER: --that's right--

LANE: --at the time.

WALKER: So--so the transition team was composed of members of, uh, the

governor's office.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: As such, um,--

LANE: Right. Right. And representatives--

WALKER: --from the community college system and from Workforce.

LANE: Right. Right. Back--back to--let's go back to the Council on

Higher Education if--if we might. You know--I kind of lead up--we haveto go through chronologically on some of these questions, but then thereare other things I want to check with you about. How--(clears throat)--it may be a difficult question to answer, but how were the communitycolleges regarded by the Council then? Were they simply an arm of UK?9:00Uh, versus how they're probably regarded now in the new structure?--

WALKER: --um-hm.

LANE: --through CPE?

WALKER: Uh, no I--I think, um, I think we--we, uh, the staff and I

believe the Council itself did, viewed the community colleges--thecommunity college system really as a--as a ninth institution already.

LANE: Really?

WALKER: Yes. I--again I don't remember when this happened. It was

probably in the, uh, maybe late eighties. Not--not later than earlynineties. It could have happened during the Wilkinson administration.Uh, but somewhere late eighties--early nineties the community collegesystem became a separate appropriation unit in the budget development10:00process, and that was a big deal.

LANE: Interesting.

WALKER: Yeah. But prior to that--I mean if you go back--in--in, uh,

appropriation bills far enough back, uh, the community college system,you know, was not mentioned. It might have been mentioned as, uh,in language but, uh, but they were a part of the UK. appropriationand, uh, when Charles Wethington was, um, was, uh, chancellor of thecommunity college system, um, uh, he--I--I believe, you know, I don'tknow this for a fact, but, uh, I believe that he was instrumentallyinvolved in that happening in--in--

LANE: --in getting that done. That's interesting--

WALKER: --yes, it really is. I mean looking back it--it really is

interesting. Um, probably, um, well my--my--I--I joined the financeunit at CP--CHE in 1980 and, uh, the--the second--the second person11:00that I worked for, um, in that position was a man named Ed Carter,who had come to the Council from UK And, um, uh, in the--in the earlyeighties, just like in the early seventies and the early nineties andthe early 2000's, uh, we were going through a period of budget cuts.It, you know, significant budget cuts--

LANE: --exactly--

WALKER: --tend to happen every ten years--

LANE: --right--

WALKER: --at the beginning of a new decade. And so, um, so we had had

a significant budget cut in, uh, following the 1980 session of theGeneral Assembly.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: Um, had a new, uh, uh, deputy executive director for finance at

the Council and--and so, uh, what--under his leadership, what we setabout doing was to develop a funding formula. The prototype funding12:00formula, uh, that C--CHE, uh, developed, and then used all the way up--right up to the passage of House Bill 1. And, uh, that--that fundingformula recognized the community college--community college system asa--as a ninth institution. And that was even before--that was evenbefore it became a separate appropriations unit. So, you know, theCouncil had--had recognized the uniqueness of the community collegesystem. Of, uh, for several years even before the passage of--of HouseBill 1--

LANE: --I see. That is something that I was unaware of--

WALKER: --yes.

LANE: That is interesting. Um--(clears throat)--when did you first hear

of the impending emphasis on postsecondary education? Paul Patton was--

Newberry, they told me about a meeting that the community collegepresidents had with Paul Patton at the Lieutenant Governor's Mansionwhen he was lieutenant governor.

WALKER: Really?

LANE: Which I hadn't ever known about.

WALKER: Yeah.

LANE: Hadn't known about it.

WALKER: That's news to me. I--I was not aware of that.

LANE: Yeah, and David Hawpe, the reporter from the Courier-Journal.

WALKER: Columnist.

LANE: Yes, columnist, you're right. Said that, uh, he and Paul Patton

had several discussions after he was elected, during that transitionperiod, about--about this--his emphasis. And David said, you know,you really--you really ought to consider higher ed. Which, you know,all of those things are interesting to me, because the first most of usheard about it was the inaugural speech. Which evidently Paul Pattonwrote himself and his advisors were unaware of it.

WALKER: Yes. And--and I, uh, I was at the annual C--what was then CHE

14:00trusteeship conference in September of '95, which, uh, attended by bothcandidates. And, um, so both candidates addressed the Council and thepresidents, you know, and all of the--all of the attend--all of thefolks who were at that conference. And, uh, you know, Forgy--LarryForgy had had a past in higher education and government. And he saidall the right things and, uh, and, uh, you know, Patton, uh, GovernorPatton was--he did not make any commitments. And as I recall, he said,you know, we need to study that. And, uh, and I--I recall thinking,uh, uh, gee, you know, the guy who--who really played up to this crowdmore was Larry Forgy.

LANE: --he certainly did. All right so you--you were there and--and of

course for that House bill business.

WALKER: Right.

LANE: You knew CHE was going to change dramatically as well.

WALKER: Well, and there was--there was a part of the--there was a

part--there was a, uh, something happened in the regular session of'96. I don't remember the number, but it was, uh, it was a studyresolution. Uh, uh a joint resolution or a concurrent resolution. Uh,that created a, uh, a study commission. And it was through that studycommission that--that House--that the--that the study occurred and ofcourse the governor led all of that--and working with the--working withthe, uh, NCHEMS. But--but--but the way that that resolution passed16:00or, not the way that it passed, but the--the composition of that studycommission sent a strong message to everybody in higher education.And that is that, you know, it was made up of--of eighteen people; sixappointed by the president of the Senate; six appointed by the speakerof the House and six appointed by the governor. And there was--and--and none of those--none of those folks were higher-ed folks.

LANE: Right. They were political. Political people.

WALKER: Yes. None of the presidents were involved, and the--the

leadership of the Council was not involved. So that sent a strongmessage that--that this was going to be a, you know, a comprehensivereview, and it was going to be led by the governor, and it wasn't goingto be dominated by insiders in higher education.

LANE: I think--because the reason I ask, is there was another one that

was a legislative task force on higher-ed, lead by Jody Richards. Nowthat one in December--and they began meeting with the call for themerging of the community college systems with the vocational technicalschools. That one, as I understand, was generally--there wasn't a lotof follow-through on that one. But I think this--the Commission onInstitutional Efficiency and Cooperation was the NCHEMS thing.

WALKER: It could be. Well the I--I just recalled that there was a piece

WALKER: Yeah. And Patton said much the same thing, uh, on May 30, '97,

on the steps of the capitol, when he signed House Bill 1.

LANE: Right. Right. That there are people who put their self-interest

aside--

WALKER: --correct--

LANE: --and work for the betterment of the Commonwealth.

WALKER: Correct.

LANE: Which is indeed what he said.

WALKER: Right.

LANE: (clears throat) So you--you were at the Council observing this,

and knowing change--change was--when did you really know changewas coming? Was it, you know, they did--they had compromises andamendments, and the whole process reads like a novel, actually, withmidnight, uh, meetings and compromises and so forth.

WALKER: Well. I--I don't remember what day this was--it was--it was

late in the session. It might have been May 29, or it could have evenfact been the morning of May 30.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: Um--when--um, uh, there were--the House was scheduled to vote.

They couldn't have been that late, because the House voted first.

LANE: First--they sure did.

WALKER: So this would have been a few days earlier. Uh, but the House

20:00was scheduled to vote, uh, and there had been any number of--any numberof--of, um, amendments--floor amendments filed.

LANE: Eighteen--thirteen?--

WALKER: Yeah. Some--

LANE: --just some amazing number.

WALKER: --just--uh. Well, back up from that, um, I remember the--the

governor working with House leadership. Uh, had established--theyestablished a--a--I don't know what it was called--a committee--a taskgroup of whatever. But there were, um, while Jim Callahan was thesponsor of the bill, they identified, um, several other House memberswho were responsible for certain sections of the bill--

LANE: --right--

WALKER: --you know--

LANE: --yes--

WALKER: --they were kind of lieutenants in charge of that part of the

bill, and so--um, uh, I--I remember meeting with, uh, meeting with Gary21:00and, uh, and--and, uh, he was a new representative from Elizabethtown,um, he just recently left the legislature. Uh, that was his firstsession--he was a freshman legislator--legislator and he was put incharge of the section dealing with the Council. So I remember meetingwith him. If--if, you know, I think long enough I'll remember his name.

LANE: And I--and I have that too, but I--I can't recall.

WALKER: So you know--you know about that group?

LANE: I know about the group, because, uh, I listened to an interview

with Jim Callahan and Myk Garn did, for his dissertation, which wasexcellent.

WALKER: Um-hm. Um-hm.

LANE: Um--and he--he talked about those--he said it was too big for us,

so we had to divide it up. And, uh, gosh I can't remember that otherlegislator.

WALKER: Yeah. But he was a former military guy, and, you know, so he

was a real taskmaster.

LANE: I see.

WALKER: Yeah. But the other interesting thing was he was a freshman

legislator, yet he was, you know, they recognized his ability and they22:00gave him responsibility for that. But, um, I believe, uh, I think GaryCox told me this, that--uh, you know, the House was looking for, uh,just passing the bill, and needed fifty one votes to pass the bill.And apparently the governor told House leadership that he didn't wantit--just pass it with a simple majority. He wanted a mandate.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: And so, uh, so we kind of knew that as background. And then so

jump forward to that, uh, the day that the vote was scheduled, and theyhad all the amendments, and Greg Stumbo was majority floor leader.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: And was also an opponent of the KCTCS portion of the bill, if

not more parts of it. Uh, and so, uh, during that time we were having,uh, I think it was daily 6:00 a.m. meetings. Uh, in room 285 of the23:00annex. Uh, whether it was daily--they were periodic, and we had onescheduled for that morning. So, uh, so we showed up in--room 285 wasthe GOPM conference room.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: So we showed up for this meeting, and some of the--some of the

folks who were supposed to be in the meeting didn't show up.

LANE: Um-hm.

WALKER: And so we were just kind of sitting there waiting and--and

eventually somebody--some member of the group came in and--and handedout a one page list. And--and what we found out was that the governorand, uh, Greg Stumbo, and then ultimately others had--and CharlesWethington, uh, had met late into the night before. And this was a24:00list of things that they had agreed to. And I can remember readingthat list, and, uh, looking at whoever was sitting beside, me or acrossfrom me, and one of us said: good grief, the governor lost.

LANE: Did you?

WALKER: You know--just the way those points were written it--it

just looked like, you know, that--that--that there had been so manyconcessions to--

LANE: --that he had caved?

WALKER: --that he had caved, yeah. And, you know, little did we know-

-(both laugh)--that--that--that, uh, he had won. And--but that thesewere--so we were looking at it from one perspective--

LANE: --certainly.

WALKER: We were looking at it from the kind of the technicality

perspective of the individual items and that sort of thing, but--but--but--long--

LANE: --do you recall some of those, Ken? What--what were the ones that

struck you the--the compromises if you will. The list of concessions--

WALKER: --yeah--

LANE: --compromises?

WALKER: Well, it was things that--that the KCTCS Board of Regents would

WALKER: No--no. Uh, but it was those things of that, you know, what the

KCTCS Board of Regents would have to do in order to, uh, uh, operate.And--and many of those things became problematic with SACS.

LANE: That's right.

WALKER: And so eventually they--they--they took care of--they were

worked out. They didn't take care of themselves. But they worked out.

LANE: Its always interesting to me to think, now did Paul Patton know

that was going to happen? Did he know enough about accreditation?Didn't--didn't Charles Wethington--or was it simply the midnight26:00compromise and we'll work--and we'll work this out later--isn't thatinteresting? We may never know.

WALKER: Maybe we--we may never know. Uh, but, you know, Paul Patton

is one of the smartest guys that I've ever encountered, ever workedwith, and I think he was successful in many of his endeavors because heimmersed himself in the topic and became the smartest guy in the room.

LANE: Right. I liked what--was it--(coughs) ------------(??) which of

the legislators was telling the story about walking into his officewith--this was this last trusteeship conference--Paul Patton had acalculator and a straightedge.

WALKER: Yeah. Yeah.

LANE: That was a great story--

WALKER: --yeah--

LANE: --wasn't it?

WALKER: Yeah.

LANE: Saying there is something structurally wrong with this document

and I'm going to find it. (laughs)

WALKER: Well I--I remember, uh, this was probably--well this was after

the bill had passed. It was moving in--as we were working toward the27:00ninety-eight session.

uh, for the--while the--the presidential search was going on. So Ihad oppor--and Jim and I worked very closely together and, uh, uh,on--on the Council's budget recommendation and--and worked up to and28:00through the session. And, uh, I remember one day Jim, um, invited meto come to the governor's office. He and I were going to meet with thegovernor about something. And, uh, so when we got there the governorwas very focused on--he had a map. He had a state map and--and hewas, uh, um--I--I think he had a notion of, uh, there being as I recallfifteen college districts. And--and so he's sitting there with hismap and his--and his--uh, you know, maybe a straightedge. I don'tremember--(Lane laughs)--but--but, uh, he was asking--he said, "Nowthis road here Jim--that's a pretty good road there isn't it?" I meanhe was just--and--and--

LANE: --really into the details.

WALKER: He was into the details.

LANE: Wow.

WALKER: And--and so--I mean I sat there across from the governor's--

across from the governor's desk. Jim standing behind the governor. And29:00this went on for probably thirty minutes or more. And--and finally Jimlooked over and said--uh--Ken, I don't think you need to stay for this.So--you know the gov--he was just so focused on that at that time.

he could--he could see things that others couldn't see. Uh, uh, so,you know, I think that, uh, he might have--he might have known thatthe--that the--these details could be worked out. He might have--hemight have surmised that, uh, Wethington had enough, uh, enough lovefor the community colleges that he wouldn't ultimately let--ultimatelylet anything bad like accreditation happen.

LANE: Right. Yeah.

WALKER: So--so I don't--

LANE: --it's all very interesting, and we know that it did work out. As

you said some of those compromises didn't set well with SACS, as far aswho really controlled the entity--

LANE: Um--so those days I'm sure were very interesting, because you were

not only searching for a president for CPE.

WALKER: Right.

LANE: But you were dealing with the changes in the--inventing that

system, if you will. And then, uh, I'm sure KCTCS was just a part ofwhat--what you were doing. Your responsibilities were more internallywith that--that organization.

WALKER: Right. And--and, uh, so House Bill 1 passed on May 30th '97,

uh, the--the--the, uh, CPE as an organization had to be created. Imean new board members had to be appointed. The KCTCS Board had to be31:00appointed. Uh, and--and so--um, uh, I remember CPE during, uh, duringthe period of August through November, CPE, as--as a board, was meetingtwice a week. Or, excuse me--every other week. Every other week. Sowe would--we would have a meeting and--and then we would immediatelybegin preparing for the next meeting, and so it was just real wildand wooly.

LANE: I'm sure it was.

WALKER: Of course, among all the things that they were doing at the

time--the thing that in my mind was most important was their biennialbudget request.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: So--so, uh, we--we, in essence, between May 30 and, uh, the

first few days of November put together a, uh, a budget recommendationpackage, uh, that, uh, that made--made a funding recommendation for,32:00uh, all of the universities, and the first funding recommendation forKCTCS.

LANE: KCTCS. A massive--

WALKER: --yeah--yeah--

LANE: --step into the unknown, if you will, to a degree. Even though

you had--you had dealt with that before.

WALKER: Right. Well and, um, and so what we did was, uh, uh, I was

working very closely with, uh, Jim Ramsey and Ron Carson and so we useda lot of the--a lot of what was said--commitments that were made duringthe special session. And so, uh, so one of the things that was saidsomewhere along the way, was that Governor Patton intended to support,um, uh, a hundred million dollar increase for higher--for postsecondaryeducation, beyond, uh, a normal inflationary increase.

LANE: Um-hm.

WALKER: So we used that language as kind of parameters around which

to, uh, to make a funding recommendation. And, um, the--and--and the33:00recommendation that we put together for the institutions in '98 was,uh, funded a hundred percent by the General Assembly.

LANE: Wow.

WALKER: The last time that that happened.

LANE: Yeah. May ever be the last time that ever happens--(laughs)--

WALKER: --it may ever be the last time--

LANE: --I mean we hope not, but that was--that's amazing.

WALKER: Yeah.

LANE: And it was striking while that was, you know, it was fresh on

everyone's minds. And I'm sure it was well done. Was that the, uh,the same budget that Cynthia Reed, uh, KCTCS board member refers to ina--in an interview that she had--she said we didn't have a presidentof KCTCS. The budget request group of the transition team prepared thebudget for '98--

used what the governor had said during the special session, that--that, um, that he intended in the '98 session to provide inflationaryincrease, and then to--to provide another hundred million dollarincrease for higher education.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: And so--and all of that was operating. So what we did was, um,

they--the inflationary increase was an easy calculation. The hundredmillion dollars then we, uh, we looked at allocating among the HouseBill 1 trust funds.

LANE: Um-hm.

WALKER: And so, um, I don't remember the exact breakdown, but--uh, you

know, some of it went to the Research Challenge trust fund. Some tothe Regional Excellence trust fund. Some to the Workforce Developmenttrust fund. Uh, some went to the Financial Aid trust fund and then35:00some went to the Physical Facilities trust fund. And as I recall,maybe thirty million out of the three hundred--out of the hundredmillion, went to the facilities trust fund. That became debt serviceon capital projects so--so, you know, it was really a--it--thinkingback on it, you know, we did do it very logically. We had, you know,we knew we had the governor's support and--because we were working withhim the whole time.

LANE: Sure.

WALKER: But, um, but--the--the--the operating funds were--it was

basic--for that biennium it was basically, uh, uh, uh, an inflationaryincrease, and then each of the institutions, uh, uh, had access toone or the other of the, um, of the trust funds. So what that meantfor KCTCS--KCTCS was the only institution that was in the, uh, theWorkforce Development trust fund. So we recommended six million36:00dollars in--annually into the Workforce Development trust fund. So--sowhat KCTCS had on the operating side, was an inflationary increaseand six million dollars annually through that trust fund for and, youknow, and--and then over time it was able to indicate how it wanted touse that money. Then in the facilities trust fund, uh, thirty--as Irecall it was thirty million dollars, which translated into about threehundred million dollars in capital projects. So this--this work groupof the transition team that Cindy Reed talked about--they were--I'msure what they did was they--they looked at the capital project requestthat had been prepared by UK for the community colleges. That had beenprepared by, uh, the Workforce Development Cabinet--37:00

LANE: --right--

WALKER: --for the technical colleges, and then they tried to--to--

LANE: --put those together--

WALKER: --put those together. So in November--at that November

ninety-seven meeting, uh, I believe these were the numbers. I couldgo back and look if you really--if you want to know the actual numbers.But what I recall is that--what the Council--what we recommended tothe Council that they do, is to--to fund the operating request as wepresented--and they approved that. Then on the capital side, uh, we--we recommended a number of capital projects for the universities, andthen we recommended two twenty-five million dollar pools--the twenty-five million dollar pool for KCTCS, for it to identify capital projects.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: And then another twenty-five million dollar pool, uh, that the

Council would subsequently identify projects. Uh, so that happened inNovember. The Council was then going to meet like the--like the--the38:00first week right after New Year's Day. And so, uh, the allocationof those two pools was going to be dealt with at that meeting.Because they had to be in place before the governor made his budgetrecommendation--

WALKER: And so this was either December twenty-second or twenty-third.

I'm thinking maybe it--it was either December 22 or 23. We were inFrankfort and--and working on the agenda book for that January meeting.And, uh, I left the office at about--well mid afternoon, and drove to39:00Louisville to, uh, what was then the Bank of Louisville, now BB&T.

was a member of the finance--KCTCS Finance Committee. He was not thechair of the committee, but there was a meeting, uh, they had a meetingthat afternoon, and they were going to--they were going to determinethe allocation of their twenty-five million dollar pool. And I thinkthey also, uh, had priorities beyond that or whatever, but anywaythey--they were going to determine the allocation of their twenty-fivemillion dollar pool. And--and so I went to that meeting so I'd getthat information first-hand. Then went back to Frankfort, and we usedthat information to fill in those pieces, uh, fill in those pieces40:00for the, uh, the board mail-out. Uh, for a meeting that was going tooccur like a couple days after New Year's Day. And, uh, as I recall,I stayed until like two o'clock in the morning, and Billie stayed untillike five o'clock in the morning, just to get all that stuff--

LANE: --get that done--

WALKER: --prepared.

LANE: And get it out--wow.

WALKER: Yeah. Yeah.

LANE: You know but--that--that transition time for the governor--getting

that--getting that budget prepared is amazing. It's especiallydifficult now, you know, with a brand new governor--having six weeksto do all that, but you all were in--even a more complicated position.Similar but more complicated.

WALKER: Because we were dealing with a new entity.

LANE: Right and did--how, uh--

WALKER: --the other thing that came out of that was the--the first

notion of, uh, of regional postsecondary education centers--

LANE: --aha--

WALKER: --and--and so the council's twenty-five million dollar pool

ended up being allocated for those regional centers and--in, uh, three41:00or four of those, uh, ultimately made their way into the KCTCS budget.

LANE: Um-hm.

WALKER: And all of them involved KCTCS colleges.

LANE: Certainly.

WALKER: So--so in essence KCTCS capital construction pool ended up

being, you know, substantially that fifty million dollar pool ratherthan just the first twenty-five--

LANE: --exactly they put those two together? (??)

WALKER: Right.

LANE: Now had--had the Council dealt at all with the postsecondary

technical schools before the bill?

WALKER: No.

LANE: So you--who was giving you information for this budget preparation

about the technical schools? You knew about the community collegespretty much. Then you have this whole new entity of--I don't know howmany there were, but there were several.

WALKER: Yeah. Well thirteen--thirteen--thirteen community colleges came

over and fifteen technical colleges came over--

LANE: --that's right--um-hm.

WALKER: So for a total of twenty-eight.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: Um--we were working with, uh, with Sandy Gubser and Jim Byford--

LANE: --okay--

WALKER: --at that time. And, uh, yeah we--we--and, you know, we--we

intended to be supportive of what KCTCS was--was doing and trying todo. And, uh, so, you know, uh, and--and the budget recommendationapproach, uh, was simple enough--that, you know, we didn't need a wholelot of detailed information.

LANE: You were just giving the large pools and then, it was up to this

board--(laughs)--

WALKER: --right--

LANE: --but that had no present according to the--

WALKER: --right--

LANE: --since you read in that--and that's very true. They were just

building that plane and air too, to take that and detail it.

WALKER: That's right.

LANE: But as you say that budget request was funded a hundred percent by

WALKER: It really is. I mean looking back on it--it's amazing how--how

things--

LANE: --because you know how difficult that is in--in general for every

legislative session.

WALKER: Yes.

LANE: Uh, fascinating. Do you have any other things you'd like to talk

about during that transition time? I want to get on to the time whenyou, uh, first heard about Mike McCall, and if you were involved inthat process.

WALKER: Uh, well, um, the, um, let's see. Well we made it through the

session. We made it through the '98 session, and in the spring of'98--near the end of the session--the session was substantially overif it wasn't already actually over. Gordon Davies was named as thefirst president of CPE. And so, you know, Gordon came in there as the,uh, um, the, uh, probably the premier, uh, state-level----------(??)44:00officer in the country. So, you know, it was, uh, it was--

WALKER: Uh, and so, uh, and then by--by the end--by--before the end of

June I guess, uh, Jim Ramsey left.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: To go to North Carolina. So--uh, you know, as the session was

ending and as Gordon was getting in and on his feet, I--I--that wasprobably the--the time period that I paid less attention to, uh, toKCTCS than any time before--

LANE: --certainly--certainly--

WALKER: --and then in the time after--

LANE: --that's understandable.

WALKER: Yeah, I was focused on, you know, uh, my new boss.

LANE: Did you all reorganize the internal structure from Council on

45:00Higher Education to Council on Postsecondary Education? You wereresponsible for all of that operating. Or did it-pretty--as far asthe structure stay pretty much the same? Or how did--were there majorchanges?

WALKER: Uh, the major change was the addition of the, uh, virtual

university--virtual library, but it kind of became an entity of--ofitself. So, you know, the rest of the Council staff was finance andacademics and that sort of thing--

LANE: --and that pretty much remains. Knowing you're going to have a

new president anyway.

WALKER: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, one of my assignments was, uh, to not fill

any positions and to keep as much flexibility for the new presidentwhen he or she came in.

LANE: Sure, sure.

WALKER: Uh, to the point that we had seven significant vacancies, uh,

and--um, you know, when Gordon got there and got on his feet, uh, uh, Iremember he, uh, wanted to fill all of these positions. And, you know,the governor's office wanted him to do that. And so, uh, he wrote46:00an ad which I later referred to as the "We're looking for seven smartpeople ad." (Lane laughs)

WALKER: You know--he didn't--it--it wasn't set--it wasn't, you know, we

want a director of this and a coordinator of that.

LANE: Really? We just want good people.

WALKER: We want seven smart people. And, uh, and so that, you know,

that was more of Gordon's--that was Gordon's approach. He wanted--hewanted smart people around him and, uh, and, uh, uh, he, you know,he liked to--he liked that kind of--he liked flexibility to be ableto maneuver his way through, uh, through to a decision. And--and anend, but anyway. Uh, so--so Gordon came, Jim left. And I--I supposeit was--I suppose it was during that time period that Jim was, uh,47:00uh, courted or afforded an opportunity. Some--but anyway, Jim wasinterviewed to be the president.

LANE: Right--right.

WALKER: And, uh, that he was not selected and so--uh. So anyway--so

Jim left and, um, I don't remember the Nelson Grote era. Nelson was inthere some at--over some period of time--

LANE: --yes, he was.

WALKER: But here's--here's the point of all this. You asked me what

I knew.

LANE: Yes.

WALKER: Uh, I was, uh, in Gordon's office one day. And Gordon got a

phone call. He didn't ask me to leave, so I didn't leave. And I neverknew who was on the other end of the phone. I presumed it was eitherthe governor, or Crit, or Martha Johnson. I--I didn't ask. But I--Ijust presumed it was one of those three people. And it was clear to48:00me that the conversation was they--whoever was--whoever called Gordonwas looking for help on, uh, a, uh, identifying in--the next interimpresident. And Gordon said, uh, Gordon mentioned, um--he said, uh,well I know exactly the man. You need to call Jeff Hockaday. And, um,of course I'd never heard of Jeff Hockaday.

LANE: Right. Right.

WALKER: But, you know, Gordon knew him from Virginia, and, you know,

talked--talked him up with whoever he was talking with. The phonecall ended and we went on with whatever we were doing and, you know, Inever thought about the significance of it. But soon after that JeffHockaday came as the interim president.

LANE: Right, interim president.

WALKER: And, uh, and then President McCall has told me that, you know,

it was because of Jeff's encourage him--encouraging--because of their49:00background--

LANE: --right, together--

WALKER: --their paths--that Jeff encouraged Mike to apply for and

ultimately got the job. So, you know, I guess--I guess in a senseGordon Davies is--

LANE: --isn't that interesting?--

WALKER: -- uh, is responsible for that.

LANE: It was good to see him back at the leadership seminar.

WALKER: Um-hm. Yes.

LANE: I interviewed him and Jeff that--on that day.

WALKER: Did you really?

LANE: On that day. Very nice interviews.

WALKER: Gordon told me that was his first day back in Kentucky since he

left--

LANE: --he did me too when we sat down to do the interview. And

I'm thinking, oh gee. But--he was and--delightful and--and I--Icomplimented him on the contributions he had made to our system. And,uh, I think he enjoyed it.

WALKER: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

LANE: I think he enjoyed seeing all of you all.

WALKER: Yeah. Yeah.

LANE: It was great to have those guys back--

WALKER: --well Tim Burcham and I were scheduled to go to--we--the CPE

was having budget hearings all that day. We were on the agenda atthree o'clock, so we came over to have lunch with him.

WALKER: Because I, you know, I wanted to see Gordon. I hadn't seen him

in five years. You know, since--since he left.

LANE: And that was rough. His departure was tough for us, and, uh, and

a loss for us frankly, I think. Uh, he's a very intelligent man. Iwas at the History Center during all this time, and our director saidyou know, you could walk in a room with Gordon Davies and you can justalmost see his mind moving.

WALKER: Yeah.

LANE: Just moving and thinking and moving ahead. And his wife Betsy was

one of our, uh, folks in oral history. So it was good to get to knowthem both. And then Betsy is a premier oral historian.

WALKER: That's what I understand.

LANE: So when I sit down with my little--he said, "she's going to be

amazed that you're interviewing me with something smaller than a deckof cards." (Walker laughs) She has this big contraption which the OralHistory Society of America espouses there--

WALKER: --I see--

LANE: --they think this is not quite--we're not ready for this with what

we do (??) and so subsequently she's e-mailing me: tell me all aboutthat little thing. But I thought, I'm sitting here with Gordon Davies.He hadn't been back in the state for five years. And he knows all51:00about oral history: I can do this, you know. And--and it was greatafter the first couple of sentences. He's--I had listened to someother interviews that Garn--Myk Garn had done with him.

of all his interviews and it's been--it's been great as a part of ourcollection. He's given us permission. But the chapter four of hisdissertation, when he details that "he said, she said," the middle ofthe night compromise before the--the vote in '97 is an amazing--it's anamazing chapter. It reads like a novel.

WALKER: I'll need to read that.

LANE: You should. You should.

WALKER: And he got that from the governor?

LANE: Oh, yes. He interviewed--oh, thirty or forty people. Oh, yeah,

the governor; Jim Callahan; Greg Stumbo. He interviewed all of the--all of the--

WALKER: --did he interview Wethington?

LANE: Yes.

WALKER: Is that right?

LANE: Most definitely. He--he--it's a very comprehensive dissertation.

LANE: Yeah. I got it first thing and said Myk can we--can we use this?

Yeah, he said, sure, just go ahead and use it. So I--I asked for allthose interviews and they've been very--very good background. It'sreally interesting to put the pieces together. I don't know why thathappened. And then, in another interview someone will say, "I knowexactly what happened."

WALKER: Somebody knows.

LANE: I know--just like you saying the phone call came. That--that's

how that happened and this is good history--

WALKER: --well Gordon--did Gordon tell you that he was involved? That--

that he?--

LANE: --yeah, he did--

WALKER: --Okay.

LANE: He did--I'm so--not--not to the detail--I like the detail about I

was there and there was a phone call, but he certainly was, uh, and ofcourse Jeff Hockaday. They were both a bit rushed, but they were verygood interviews, and I--I appreciate them--them doing that. So--

WALKER:--and Gordon was more on his feet, I stopped attending Board of

Regents meetings.

LANE: I see.

WALKER: Early on, you know, during the wild and wooly days--

LANE: --yeah, yeah. They needed you--

WALKER: --I attended just to keep up with what was going on.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: So I'm--I--I don't--I couldn't pinpoint the date, but it

54:00would have been in Gordon's office. Uh, and it would have been, uh,discussing either some aspect of the--the current biennium budget,or preparing for the, uh, for the next biennial budget. So it wouldhave been sometime during that, um, and--and the presidents were allactively involved. Uh, Gordon--Gordon continued the concept of the--well, he had to because it was statutory--

LANE: --right--

WALKER: The Conference of Presidents--and he would work with Conference

of Presidents. We were developing at that time the benchmark fundingsystem. So, you know, whether--

LANE: --lots to do--

WALKER: --yeah. So whether it would have been in a private meeting in

Gordon's office, or at a Conference of Presidents meeting or somethinglike that. You know,--I-- it was something like that. But it wouldhave been during calendar year '99. Uh, probably preparing for the2000 session.

LANE: Right. Right. Of course you know-- I'm reading from the record

55:00here that during that year--(clears throat)--um, it was--it was abanner year for KCTCS. Dr. Bird came on board in February. Um, theforty employees went to Lexington. You know, everybody was located inFrankfort, and then some stayed in Frankfort; some went to Lexington.Um, you had your first KCTCS graduate, Travis Todd in May of '99. Thefoundation was created, and then in September of that year Dr. McCallwas inaugurated. And I'm sure there are many--many other things withthe board--well, there are many other things with the board going onthen.

around him very much I--I was impressed by the president. And hisvision, and in things that I'd heard him say and his vision for KCTCS.Because, uh, that was--his vision for KCTCS was different from whatthe discussion was in the halls of Frankfort.

LANE: Is that right?

WALKER: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

LANE: How so?

WALKER: Uh, there were many people in--in, uh, Frankfort and I--I

don't know where the governor was on this, but during--during HouseBill 1, a lot of--during special session a lot of the testimony, uh,focused on what the--what--what the president's--the KCTCS president'soffice would be. Or the system office would be. And many people saidoh, it'll be a small organization. And there were people who--who57:00thought that--that the--and I think this is why it was written intothe statute. The--the the positions of the chancellor of the--of eachbranch, you know, focus on the branches--the chancellor of each branch.I think that there were many people, uh, in--in Frankfort at thattime who thought that KCTCS would be two parallel branches. And thepresident's office would be kind of a referee organization between thetwo chancellors. And so when I--

LANE: --which is pretty typical of the way some of things had gone in

Kentucky up to that date with higher-ed. Okay, how interesting.

WALKER: And so when I heard President McCall talk about--uh, you know, a

single system--a unified system, uh, I saw in him a person who had theright vision for KCTCS, and it was different from what others had been58:00talking about during the--during the passage of House Bill 1.

LANE: His more a--a--we talk about seamless--

WALKER: --yes--

LANE: --as we talk about students progressing through the system too,

but his really--it really was more of a seamless, integrated vision,wasn't it?

WALKER: Yeah, comprehensive.

LANE: Um-hm, comprehensive.

WALKER: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh--

LANE: --so you like that?

WALKER: Yeah.

LANE: You thought that--that was a good way to go?

WALKER: Yeah, and I--and--and--and--and I thought that that was, you

know, I thought it would be, uh, I thought it would be at least worthmy time to apply and hopefully get an interview. Uh--

LANE: --who else did you know in the--in the system office at that time?

WALKER: I knew, um, Tony Newberry and, uh, I had said that, uh, when-

-when I saw Tony sign on with KCTCS he--this was, you know, when--whenI was still at the Council, that that sent a strong message that KCTCSwas going to succeed, because I had known Tony when he was in the59:00community college system. Uh, I knew, um, I knew Jim Byford, uh, ofcourse by working with him--

Gary Cloyd, Gary Grogan, Wendell Followell. Wendell had been at K--KSUbefore he had been at the community college system. So, you know,I--these were people that--that I had worked with very directly--uh,you know, tried--during that first budget development process. And--and Gary Cloyd in particular, with the writing of the plans for theregional postsecondary education centers. Uh, so, you know, I knewthat I didn't know a whole lot of folks and--and I knew Beth. And Bethhad been in, uh, she had been Jim Ramsey's right hand person with GOPM,60:00and prior to that she had been in Finance Cabinet. So, uh, so I knew,you know, her--I knew Beth and Tony and a few of the finance staff, butnot very many more people.

LANE: Um-hm.

WALKER: But, uh, but it was, you know, hopefully--really what I had

heard about; read about; heard from Mike that--that really--

LANE: --yeah, who's a quality person.

WALKER: Yeah--yeah and, uh, it's really funny, you know, I--I had

witnessed a lot of the what I call the wild and wooly days leading upto that.

LANE: Yeah, definitely. (laughs)

WALKER: Uh, you know, there were some, uh, uh, there was some talk that,

uh, that--uh, you know, the KCTCS portion of House Bill 1 would beoverturned in the '98 session--

LANE: --yes. Oh wow--

WALKER: --and it didn't happen.

LANE: No.

WALKER: And then we had gone through the 2000 session, and there was

no talk of it, and it certainly didn't happen then. So, you know, it61:00appeared that KCTCS was going to survive.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: And--um, uh, of course, you remember all the Y2K discussion?

LANE: Oh, yes. (laughs)

WALKER: Well--those--there were--those here and then, uh, those of us

at the Council who were watching and hope--you know, offering any helpthat we could make it--to help it work. Uh, uh, July 1 '99 was a moresignificant date than Y2K because July 1 '99 was when UK and stategovernment was going to pull the plug on the administrative supportsystem.

LANE: Uh-huh, yes.

WALKER: And so, uh, so those people who where here, you know, John

Hesseldenz and the IT staff and the finance staff. Everybody who wasworking on the PeopleSoft implementation.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: Uh, you know, so when they got that working on July 1 '99 and--

and--and--and, uh, the, uh, I've used the, uh, the analogy--I don't know62:00which new world explorer it was--whose--the first--the first thing hedid when he arrived in the new world was set the ships on fire.

LANE: (laughs) Yeah.

WALKER: So there was no--there was no going back.

LANE: Yeah, that's it--

WALKER: --well, that's what July--that's what--

LANE: --that's what it was to you?--

WALKER: That's what July 1 '99 was to--to the folks here. You know,

the ships were on fire. UK wasn't going to do any more administrativeprocessing--state government.

LANE: We're on our own.

WALKER: On our own.

LANE: We are on our own.

WALKER: And so, you know, I had watched all of these things, uh, you

know, PeopleSoft had been implemented.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: Uh, the--the KCTCS had a new exciting president and the--the

session had gone, uh, pretty well. The 2000 session had gone prettywell. And so I remember when I came for my interview--I interviewedwith the cabinet. Uh, with the president's cabinet and I can remember--

LANE: --in Lexington?--

WALKER: --in Lexington at Spindletop. Uh, and I can remember saying to-

63:00-to that group that I felt a little bad about signing on at that point,because a lot of the heavy lifting had already been done.

LANE: (laughs) Little did you know, Ken Walker.

WALKER: Little did I know. And--they--they, you know, smiled and

chuckled and were real nice--

LANE: (laughs) Um-hm--

WALKER:--and--but they knew. They knew what I didn't know; that there

was a whole lot of heavy lifting still to do.

LANE: Still--well you're right--what had been accomplished was

phenomenal.

WALKER: It was.

LANE: The foundation.

WALKER: Yes.

LANE: Frankly, of the whole system--

WALKER: --yes--

LANE: --was phenomenal.

WALKER: Yes.

LANE: But it--it did continue.

WALKER: Oh, yeah--yeah and then there's been, uh, I--I think one of

the--the interesting things, and in a way it's a little sad, is thatwe have--I--even in the seven years that I've been here have witnessedso many significant things that when we--when we accomplish something64:00significant we kind of take it a little bit for granted.

LANE: Okay. I want to talk about that. I want you to help me with that

in--in just a minute.

WALKER: Okay--because there has been--

LANE: --isn't that an interesting phenomenon, because everything has

been so phenomenal along the way--

WALKER: Yes.

LANE: Yeah and--and in an otherwise situation it would be really--

WALKER: --huge--

LANE: --huge, yeah.

WALKER: You know, red letter--red letter kind of--

LANE: --interesting.

WALKER: But--but we, you know, we accomplished something, and then there

are three more things on the horizon that we're moving towards.

LANE: Exactly. Um--so your first office was at Spindletop?

WALKER: It was.

LANE: And your first meetings were with the cabinet or with Dr. McCall

or both?

WALKER: Uh, yeah. Well, you know, I had interviews with the cabinet and

with the president. And then after that--that--and they--they had--they interviewed at least two other finalists.

LANE: Okay.

WALKER: And then I was selected and after I was selected, uh, president

65:00asked me to come over, and he had, uh, compiled--or he had gathered allthe finance staff, uh, so however, many there were at that time.

LANE: Probably not that--were there quite a few?--

WALKER: --oh yeah, by that time--

LANE: --okay.

WALKER: Yeah, by that time this vision of a small president's office

staff.

LANE: Was gone wasn't it?

WALKER: That's gone--that was gone. And--and--uh, you know, a lot of

that--a lot of that consolidate--consolidated--comprehensive processingdecision was made with the implementation of PeopleSoft.

LANE: PeopleSoft, sure.

WALKER: So by that time there was a payroll staff. There was a

purchasing staff. There was an accounting staff. There was a budgetstaff. There was facilities staff, all of that. So--so, uh, most ofthe people that are here now in the finance staff were here at thattime.

LANE: Okay.

WALKER: Uh, there has been very little growth--

LANE: --they came first?

WALKER: Yes. They came first.

LANE: Yeah. Huh.

WALKER: So I--I had a chance to meet with them and, uh, I--I knew--uh,

66:00you know, I knew the two Gary's, Cloyd and Grogan. In facilities Iknew Jim Byford and Wendell Followell in budget. I knew Gary Dean,who was the head of business services at that time. David Adkins,who's the head of treasury, I had not ever met before and, uh, so, youknow, we just had a real pleasant meeting. And the president, uh, thepresident, uh, introduced me. And I told them, you know, that I had alot to learn and I was looking forward to working with them. And--uh,you know, it's a--my predecessor, Sandy Gubser, compiled a great--greatstaff. It was--uh, you know, really the only people that have left arepeople who've retired.

LANE: Sure.

WALKER: And--and moved on--but, uh, yeah. Excellent--excellent--first

rate--first rate staff.

LANE: That appears to be the case throughout this agency. I've been in

state government for many years and noticed--noticed the quality, theexpertise and passion for--for the system. So you can't beat that.

institutions. So this would have been my first--this was my firstinstitutional experience. All of my career had been in Frankfort.And so I had a perception about how institutions worked, but I had nohands-on experience. So, um, I just presumed that, uh, by the time Icame on June first, the operating budget for the fiscal year 2000 and'01 would be absolutely nailed down; put to bed. And I would have afull year. (both laugh) Well little--

meeting that I had after I came was a meeting of, uh, the, uh, the--the--the group of presidents and college directors at that time--

LANE: --okay--

WALKER: --the technical college guys were still directors.

LANE: Right, directors, right.

WALKER: And, uh, so--so I found out first that the operating budget had

not been prepared or finished. (Lane laughs) Uh, that, uh, I knew thatthe board would act on it in June but, you know, as I--I was a littlenaive in thinking that all the work would have been done. It was justa mat--just a matter--

LANE: --ooh, your right. June 1.

WALKER: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, so probably the first official meeting

I attended was this meeting of, uh, of, uh, all the presidents. And,uh, and Richard Bean, a board member was there. And there might have69:00been another board member or two there. I don't remember. I rememberRichard being there. And a reporter was outside wanting to come in.And I remember thinking: good grief (both laugh).

LANE: --really?--

WALKER: --yeah--

LANE: This big a deal?

WALKER: Yeah, um-hm. And so, uh, so anyway, uh, the reporter didn't

come into the meeting. (laughs).

LANE: No.

WALKER: Uh, and as I recall that's the last time I remember seeing a

reporter outside--sitting--lurking outside of the--of a closed meetinglike that related to our presidents and stuff. But--um--anyway, wegot the budget put together and then my first board meeting was in, uh,June 29 and 30 of that year at Southeast.

LANE: Okay.

WALKER: And so again that was a new experience for me, because, uh,

70:00what I saw was how important, uh, the board, uh, holding most of itsmeetings at that time at the college campuses.

LANE: Right. Right.

WALKER: How important that was.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: And I can remember there was an evening--this was a huge

meeting--I--I--and, uh, because I think we were in fact down there twonights. Like we were there--went--there was something late Wednesdayafternoon. We were there Wednesday night, all day Thursday, Thursdaynight and Friday. And this first evening we were there they had acommunity gathering. And, um, and, uh, uh, I--more than one personsaid this is the first time that--that the board governing this collegehas ever been in our town.

cabinet is really a special thing. Uh, and--and as we have--as wehave interviewed for new cabinet members, uh, this is what I have--I'vebeen consistently telling everyone that we interview this. That I viewmy role as cabinet member in three parts: One, to make the presidentas successful as he can be;--[clicking noise]--second,, uh, make thepeople who I'm responsible for as successful as they can be; and thenthird is watch the backs of everybody else around the table. And Ithink everybody takes that--takes that--

LANE: --approach?--

WALKER: --approach. And so--when I became the tenth member of the

cabinet as, uh, first Judith James left, and then Tony Newberry left,and then, uh, um, uh, Candace Gosnell left in '97, yeah. What we did74:00was--we just--and that's the beauty of the way the president, you know,my title is vice president. I'm not vice president "for" something.

LANE: Hmm. Just vice president.

WALKER: Just like--so we have four vice presidents. Not vice president

"for". And--now we each have, you know, an area that we major in.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: But--but what we recognize is that we--we're expected to be able

to function in a lot of different areas. And so as individuals left,then what we did was--as the president says take a step back and reviewwhat we're doing--what needs to be done. And--and at every point wedecided we don't want to add somebody at this point. That we want to,uh, we--we just want to re, uh, re--redistribute the responsibility.75:00Uh, and it's a very--it's a small and very, uh, tight, uh, verycommitted group of professionals. It's the best leadership team I'veever been involved with.

LANE: Interesting.

WALKER: No doubt about it.

LANE: Wow. Now what did Judith James do? I--I don't know.

WALKER: She was the--she was responsible for student services.

LANE: Student services?

WALKER: Um-hm. And she left very shortly after I came.

LANE: Okay.

WALKER: So she and I did not work together--

LANE: --that long?--

WALKER: --that long.

LANE: And then Tony Newberry of course was--was one of the chancellors

seven folks of the cabinet who have a global vision for the wholeinstitution. Now Ken, you were involved in 2004 when this business ofLCC's accreditation came up.

WALKER: Yeah.

LANE: Give me a few details about that, if--if you have time.

WALKER: Oh yeah--oh yeah, I do. This is great.

LANE: --I'm enjoying it thoroughly--

WALKER: --oh me too. Janet will tell me--

LANE: Janet will tell us when it is time to cease and--

WALKER: --that's right--

LANE: And we can always reconvene if we need to.

WALKER: That's right. Um--

LANE: --okay, but that--that was--just give us the--the first you heard

of that and what happened then.

WALKER: Um--I guess it would have been in the, uh, would it--would it--

would it have been in the fall of '04? Or was that the fall of '03?--79:00

LANE: --Um, it was '03 because the transition was in April of '04.

WALKER: Okay. Well it would have been in the fall of '03, uh, we--I

heard about the, uh, the concern about the, uh, LCC. Of course by thattime Lee Todd had been president at UK for two years.

LANE: Right. [clicking noise].

WALKER: And, um, if, uh, this is speculation on my part. If Lee Todd

had been president earlier on, uh, KCTCS as an organization might havebeen created long before House Bill 1. I mean--

LANE: --interesting--

WALKER: --he--because he just had a different vision for UK than

President Wethington did. And--but--but anyway, uh, uh, I think thatover time, uh, President Todd really began to focus on, uh, UK becominga top-twenty research institution as mandated by House Bill 1. And80:00managing LCC was really not a part of that. And so, uh, I--againspeculation on my part, the--the, uh, the accreditation wrinkle orissue might have just been, you know, the opportunity he--that he waslooking for in order to--to sever, uh, LCC from UK Uh, Keith Bird wasactually more involved in it--in the fall, uh, and, uh, so I didn'treally--I did not attend any meetings. I kept up with, uh, with whatwas being written and tried to keep us up with what was being said.Um, but when it came to, uh, when it came to the point of that therecommendation to the board was going to be that LCC become part ofKCTCS. Then I--then I became more actively involved because, you know,81:00at some point--people would be--would want to know about well, whatdoes that mean from a practical perspective.

LANE: Sure. You had to check the budgets and the operating and--

WALKER: --budget--at that time Candace had already gone at that time

and--and so HR had been reorganized into finance. So I was interestedin it from a budget perspective, from an HR perspective, from justbusiness operations--business processing perspective. So, uh, Iattended--again another first--I attended a UK Board of Trusteesmeeting for the first time in my life. (Lane laughs) And was askedto, uh, to address the board on, uh, matters of processing and--and howthings would work, and all of that.

LANE: Um-hm. Um-hm.

WALKER: So then, uh, then--when the '04 session occurred, uh, that I

guess it--I guess the transition, uh, or the transfer was effected bya, uh, by a, uh, a joint resolution or a concurrent--I don't reckon-82:00-HJR or HCR it was one of the two. And so, um, so when it passed, uh,then we again had a short period of time, uh, basically from April, uh,until July to, uh, to get things, um, moving. And the, uh, the--thatresolution as I recall included some language--(coughs)--that, uh, wasprobably--it was similar to House Bill 1 language in that there was atransition team.

LANE: Um-hm.

WALKER: And, uh, there were, um, I don't remember how many members from

85:00of credit for how smoothly that went. Because, uh, Dick was the UKco-chair.

LANE: Um-hm.

WALKER: And, uh, and Dick took the approach of we're going to make this

work and we're going to make it work if there--if there's--if thereis, uh, if--if we are ever in any doubt and--and--and somebody ends upon the short end of the stick on something, we don't ever want it tobe KCTCS.

LANE: Wow.

WALKER: Yeah.

LANE: That's amazing.

WALKER: Tell me. (laughs)

LANE: What was--what was Dick's title?

WALKER: Dick was vice president for administration. Now, uh, a sidebar,

WALKER: But, uh, I had never met Dick--I'd never worked with Dick. He's

just--he came in and he--and he'd said--and so, uh, the first couple ofmeetings--maybe every meeting that we had but at least the first coupleof meetings we had was at Spindletop Hall.

LANE: Yes.

WALKER: You know--it was right next door to where we were.

LANE: That's it.

WALKER: A UK property. Very convenient--very, all that. And--and we

had but--we had kind of a preliminary meeting. And--and I had some ofmy finance folks there who were going to be involved in the transition.He had a lot of his folks there. And we kind of stood together sideby side, and said we're going to make this work. And he said to hisfolks what I told you earlier. That if--if we're ever in doubt we--we're going to make a decision so that KCTCS does not get hurt. And thesignificance of that was that some of the same people who were on his87:00staff at that time were at UK during the House Bill 1 transition. Andthe leadership at that time--his predecessors at that time told thesesame people just make it as difficult as possible. So, you know, I'mnot going to mention any names.

LANE: Sure, sure.

WALKER: But--but there was one--one person in particular whose nature

was--I mean he's just steeped in UK

LANE: Yes.

WALKER: And--and he--I'm sure enjoyed the first transition and was

probably taken aback at the approach that Dick took at the secondtrans--at the LCC transition. But, Dick set that tone, uh, he and I--we were together on everything. Barbara Jones and Beverly Haverstockwere colleagues, and they worked together. And Keith and--and--and,uh, Nietzel--what's his--Mike Nietzel--88:00

LANE: --Mike, um-hm--

WALKER: --they--it was just--I could--I could not have asked for it to

be--

LANE: --a better team--

WALKER: --a better team.

LANE: Wow.

WALKER: And then--so that's kind of at--at this level.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: But all of the work--

LANE: --right--

WALKER: --you know, and so I don't know how many work groups we had

put together. But we would have, you know, somebody on our side andsomebody on their side, and they just made it happen. And so thisreport--this report that--this final report that we did was--we--theresolution asked us to do certain things.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: So our report was structured according to that--

LANE: --right, to that.

WALKER: But then there are all kinds of attachments about how things was

going to work. And it just--

LANE: --and it did.

WALKER: And it worked.

LANE: Amazing.

WALKER: It is--it is.

LANE: So, you did get that done between?

WALKER: April and July.

LANE: April and July.

WALKER: Um-hm. And--and there is something in the record--uh, you know,

whatever our--whatever our PR publications at that time would have been.89:00

LANE: Okay.

WALKER: Uh, there's a--there's--there's this nice picture--there's a

story and this nice picture of a signing ceremony that we had, in thelobby of the administration building at Spindletop. President McCall,uh, Mike Nietzel for, uh, President Todd, and Jim Kerley.

LANE: Wow.

WALKER: And, uh--

LANE: --and it was done--

WALKER: --and it was done.

LANE: But they're still there? Are they still--LCC still is located on

the campus--

WALKER: --yeah--yes they are--

LANE: --of the university?

WALKER: Yes. Yes. And--uh, you know, part, uh, the university owns all

that property.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: But, uh, the way that the way the law was written the--LCC or

now Bluegrass can use the property as long as--as necessary.

LANE: Okay. Okay. I'll need--I will get a copy of that resolution, too.

WALKER: Yes.

LANE: And it may be in you're--I don't know if it's attached to your

report or not, but I'll--I'll--

WALKER: -yeah the resolution and the final report is--is what you would

connection. I had a great interview last week with Mayor Fred Siegelmanand Bruce Bailey. It was great. And they--they--they told a lot ofgood stories and--and it was a virtual lovefest, because I think that'show I--I portray that between Versailles and KCTCS. The fact that youall are here and we're here is just a virtual win--win for everybody.

WALKER: It really is.

LANE: Everybody.

WALKER: It really is, uh.

LANE: Were you involved in any of the--any of the details leading up to

may have told you this story and he may not have. We--of course wewere in Lexington and--uh, you know, uh, it was not--it was not a verygood situation.

LANE: Not ideal.

WALKER: Not ideal--it was far from ideal.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: And, um, so we had, uh, we had requested, uh, from the state

91:00the construction of a new facility a couple of times, and of course itdidn't--it didn't get any hearing at all, and, uh.

LANE: Where did you think that was going to be, Ken? Did you have an

idea of where that new facility might be built?

WALKER: No. No.

LANE: Have any instruction from anybody of about where it should be?

WALKER: No.

LANE: That was your all's call?

WALKER: Yeah. And I think, um, I think we got--again my speculation--we

got no, uh, direction from anybody about where that might be built,because nobody really was interested in funding it and building it.

LANE: Yeah, they knew if they had told you where it was they might have

to fund it--

WALKER: --that's right--(both laugh)--that's right.

LANE: Okay.

WALKER: So, uh, so anyway after requesting a new facility a couple of

times, and it not being built then--uh, you know, we just, uh, knewthat we had to look at other alternatives. And so, uh, when--when TIwas leaving this facility, uh, I don't remember--I don't remember, uh,92:00I'm sure I talked with Mike about it. But Bruce Bailey and I got inhis truck and we drove over here, literally on the day that they weremoving out.

LANE: Really? That TI was moving out?

WALKER: Yeah.

LANE: Oh, my gosh. Oh my gosh--

WALKER: --yeah and in fact I live in Bloomfield in Nelson County and

I ran into a couple of TI folks who were--who were helping, you know,they, you know, there I was in my suit and they said, what are youdoing here?

LANE: Oh boy--(both laugh)--

WALKER: Yeah. And so what--what--what Bruce and I were doing was at

that point--we were hoping that somebody would buy it and, uh, renovateit as a--as an office facility, and that we might be able to lease.

weren't in a position to buy it, and all of that, and so, uh, so anywaywe settled back into Spindletop and, uh, you know, a few months later--a couple years later, uh, we heard from--and I'm sure the presidentheard first, and then called some of the rest of us in. Heard fromFred Siegelman and a guy by the name of Jas Sekhon Made up--somethinglike that.

LANE: Who was part of their NEA Council (??) ---Bluegrass ADD.--

WALKER: --Bluegrass ADD. Yes--

LANE: --that's it.

WALKER: Um-hm. And so what we learned then that was, uh, was that, uh,

uh, TI wanted--had offered the building to, uh, uh, to the city. And94:00the city, uh, wisely did not accept the gift until they knew what theywere gonna do with it.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: So, you know, as far as I know--as far as I know they approached

us. And why they approached us--or if somebody pointed them in ourdirection I--I really don't know that. And I mean it could be--itcould be--it could be the--that the little day-trip that Bruce and Imade over here and the realtor, you know, the realtor--Bruce had talkedwith the realtor, so--

LANE: --who was that? Do you know? It was a local realtor, but I'm not--

I'll need to find out who it was--

WALKER: --yeah. Bruce would know that.

LANE: Yeah. Yeah.

WALKER: So, you know, it could--it could not be this, but it could

be that Bruce contacted the realtor, and we came over to look at the95:00building.

LANE: And they just kept you on file.

WALKER: And they kept us on file, and so that by the time the city--by

the time, you know, the city got involved, and the city said well, youknow, we want to know, you know, it could have been they said, wellthose boys over at KCTCS were interested a couple of years ago. Let'scheck with them.

LANE: But that whole agreement--the corporation that was formed is--is

really unique.

WALKER: Yes, it is.

LANE: In--in business.

WALKER: Yes.

LANE: And--and has been very successful.

WALKER: It has. And--and I think that the city attorney, uh, whose

name--

LANE: --Moore?--

WALKER: --Moore, yeah. I think he was very helpful--very instrumental.

Uh, Mayor Siegel-- is a mayor--

LANE: --he is--

WALKER: --you know. He's out there and, uh, he talked a big game, but

he, uh, his role was important as well. And then, uh, so, you know,when all of the--we--we put together a proposal of how it could work,96:00and had to work through all the legislative process.

LANE: Right. Right. Get that approved.

WALKER: And part of, you know, part--a significant part of--of what we

were--of what our presentation was that by--by--by locking into thislease-purchase agreement over twenty years--in fact, what we were doingwas locking into a rental payment.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: And we compared that to what our rental payments would have been

with annual rate growth had we stayed where we were. And then showedat the end of twenty years we'd own something here--over there we'dstill not own--owned anything.

LANE: Or if you had even built, what your--what you obligation would

have been--

WALKER: --yes--yes--

LANE: --on a major facility.

WALKER: Yes. So it--doing it this way and Bruce and those guys, would

know--would remember the detail, but I'm guessing it was about a thirdof what the--

WALKER: --the difference. And who knows? At some point they may, and we

may own it, uh, may own it earlier.

LANE: Well, that's--that's a good thought.

WALKER: And it was--it was a smart move for the--for the community as

well. Because, you know, they--they could have--they could have triedto make money off the facility, but they didn't.

LANE: Yeah. Yeah.

WALKER: Uh, so--

LANE: --that's interesting, isn't it?

WALKER: And so--when--when all the smoke clears, you know, uh, the money

that we will have paid the corporation will be just to pay off the debtthat they had from the financing--

LANE: --exactly, it's a non-profit. But--but the win for Versailles

is--is the payroll taxes--

WALKER: --absolutely--

LANE: --and that sort of thing. And--and good neighbors.

WALKER: That's right.

LANE: And just having an educational entity such as KCTCS here in

Versailles. As a--as a community member I can--I can say that. Andsay that, uh, universally the community is very excited about it.

WALKER: Yes. Yeah. Well, and we went to and left Lexington and nobody

98:00noticed. (Lane laughs) And--and even before we got here, peoplecouldn't wait for us to get here.

LANE: That's right, that's right. Were there other players in that?

Judge Gormley, uh, was he involved?--

WALKER: --not that I recall.

LANE: Not as much? The county not as much as the city, simply because

we're located here?

WALKER: Yeah. The two significant players that I remember were, uh,

Seacorn--Sekhon?

LANE: Bluegrass ADD. Jas--

WALKER: --Bluegrass ADD and the city. Yeah.

LANE: Yeah. Excellent. Well, it certainly--

WALKER: --then we turned Bruce loose and Bruce did his magic, and, you

know--

LANE: --um-hm. Phased in the--you've had how--this is the--

WALKER: --two phases--

LANE: --the second phase of renovation here at the--at the system

office. And how many employees?

WALKER: Well, uh, probably counting--um, uh, counting all the Fire

Commission folks, which was a big addition.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: And, uh, and then we've prepared for KBEMS.

LANE: KBEMS.

WALKER: And we'll see what happens with that.

LANE: Yes.

WALKER: Uh, but right now I think there are about 210 people in the

99:00building--something like that. Uh, but, you know, at Spindletop, uh,Janet and I were the only--I mean we were in one building, and everybodyelse on the finance staff were spread between two other buildings--

LANE: --it is so much more efficient.

WALKER: Yeah.

LANE: Well I like your working arrangement here too. And we'll--we'll

establish this for the record. In this building you have units of--ofcubicles and conference rooms and offices. But you have shared workspaces. It's very efficient. You have one copier for a dozen folks.

WALKER: Right.

LANE: I think that concept is very, very efficient.

WALKER: Right.

LANE: To keep--keep the proliferation of copiers and workspaces at a

minimum. But it seems to work well.

WALKER: And, uh--

LANE: --promotes collaboration--

WALKER: --there were, uh, there were people who weren't all that

supportive of that. But--

LANE: --sure. And I understand that--

WALKER: --but and--and that's--and because it wasn't that away at

Spindletop.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: And, you know, the space that you're in dictates what--what has

WALKER: And so, uh, but, you know, President McCall made it clear that-

-that's what we were going to do. We were going to have the sharedworkspaces; weren't going to have printers in every office and all ofthat. So--so he's--he's--the president's been actively involved in allof the decisions, uh, uh, about this building.

LANE: I want to go back to 19--well actually, this--this interview was

done about 2002. Ron Carson, who in 1997 was deputy budget directorand is now at CPE--

WALKER: --right--

LANE: --gave me this quote: "I can remember having a conversation with

Ken Walker at the time," which was '97, "saying, that we can look backten years from now, and without question the creation of KCTCS willbe the most important thing in this bill. Not that the other elementsweren't important: Bucks for Brains; Virtual University; reorg of thecouncil; SCOPE. I still think by far the most important thing is the101:00establishment of KCTCS." Give me a comment on that Ken. Do you agree?

WALKER: (laughs) Absolutely. I agree, I agree--

LANE: --yeah--

WALKER: I agree.

LANE: It--it--it seems to be the shining star of--of the whole bill.

WALKER: Yeah.

LANE: I mean there are others. He's right. But, uh, KCTCS--how would

you like for us to present the last ten years Ken? Um, would you listfor me some of the highlights which you--which we alluded to earlier.

WALKER: Well, I think the board's selection of Mike McCall, uh, has to

be right at the top of the list--[clicking noise]--uh, simply becauseof--of the vision that he brought, and his, uh, ability--his leadershipability to implement that vision. Uh, and--and so many of these otherthings flow from that. Um--after that the, uh, the consolidation of102:00the colleges in, uh, kind of a--and I, you know, after I heard Miketalk first--I--I knew that would happen, but for it to happen--

LANE: --how it happened--

WALKER: --how it happened and as quickly as it happened. I'd of never--

I wouldn't have bet a penny on that. So, consolidation of the colleges.Um, this one is, and I don't know how many--how many people wouldhave this in their top three, but--but I do. And that is the, um, whathappened at Paducah Community College, and the--and the creation ofWest Kentucky Community Technical College. Uh, House Bill 1 providedthat the PJC Inc. board would in fact be the board of directors at,uh, PCC. You know--completely different setup than--than any of the103:00other colleges.

LANE: Okay.

WALKER: And, uh, President McCall working with the folks there, uh,

basically got that board to relinquish that responsibility. And so PJCInc. board is now the board for the foundation.

LANE: Right.

WALKER: Which is appropriate.

LANE: Yes, it is.

WALKER: And there is a separate board of directors structured like the

other boards of directors. Uh, and just, you know, what--what I knewabout Paducah and--and PJC, and prior to my coming here; again, I wouldhave not bet anything that that would have ever happened--

LANE: --happened, like it did--

WALKER: --in my--my lifetime. And--and--and--and, you know, the

president just has this ability to--to work quietly and to--work withpeople and get these things done and, uh, I mean so that's one that104:00just happened.

WALKER: It was--we were still at Spindletop so--um, '01, '02. Yeah Um--

LANE: --okay. You don't have to limit it to three.

WALKER: --yeah, well.

LANE: I mean top three is always good, but I want to be sure that we

present all of the significant happenings.

WALKER: Yeah. And, uh, and as I said earlier, you know, we have these

red-letter events.

LANE: Yes.

WALKER: But they've become, you know, there are so many of them we--we

kind of take them as--as commonplace. Uh, those three really stand outin my mind. And, uh, uh, you know, then there are--there are dozens105:00of other things, you know. I mean our budget--our budget process--offunding model that we've developed. Uh, uh, what we've done withtuition. You know, I mean these are big things to me.

to--want to--as I say want to speak with him and get his permission. Ithink that's a model that--that people are going to be very interestedin and I don't know that it's been published. But that's something wereally ought to--to talk about, because it sure is working.