Season 3 - Episode 20: Citadel Rescue
Airs: March 11, 2011 at 7:30 PM CST/8:30 PM EST
Replays: March 13, 2011 at 7:30 PM CST/9:30 PM EST
Summary: After their ship and only way off the planet is destroyed, Anakin and Obi-Wan must lead the escaped prisoners across Lola Sayu's perilous landscape as Plo Koon commands a task force of four cruisers and their fighters through the Separatist defenses in a daring rescue. Even Piell is ravaged by anooba tracking beasts, but before he dies, he passes on his Nexus Routes coordinates to Ahsoka. When the survivors return to Coruscant, Ahsoka knows half the intel, and refuses to disclose it to anyone but the Jedi Council, while Tarkin refuses to hand over his half to anyone other than the Chancellor.
Featured Characters: Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ahsoka Tano, R2-D2, Clone Captain Rex, Clone Commander Cody, Fives, OOM-10, K2-B4, Plo Koon, Mace Windu, Saesee Tiin, Adi Gallia, Kit Fisto, Count Dooku
Featured Locations: Lola Sayu, Coruscant

This episode will round out the Citadel trilogy._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Last edited by Darth Skuldren on Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:30 pm; edited 2 times in total

Generally, it was a decent enough episode. I liked that Piell died. Not sure how they'll reconcile this with the Coruscant Nights book, though IR2 pointed me to Leland's Blog which answers some of my questions. It's a shame, though. I quite liked Piell's character in this.
One thing I found funny, though. When they were rapelling, the good droids decided to hold the enemy off, but none of the others made mention of the fact that it wasn't likely that those droids were going to survive long enough to make a difference!

This post has had more revisions than the SW Continuity..._________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:16 pm

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

The Citadel Trilogy is officially the best thing Season Three has produced!

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I know that's not a great feat but all three of these episodes were handles really well. All the characters really shined in these- Anakin, Obi-wan, Ahsoka, Tarkin, Fives and Echo. This may sound dumb, but it just felt so much like Star Wars! Job well done, Luasfilm Animation.

EDIT

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I forgot about Piell in Coruscant Nights. I don't know... I can't really bring myself to be upset about this. It sounds like Piell was assumed dead prior to Coruscant Nights so the blame here may rest on Michael Reaves. I was never a fan of Coruscant Nights anyway so it's a small loss for me.

_________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

I am neither here nor there on Piell's death. Was it really necessary? Probably not, but it didn't much bother me. What did bother me was that he couldn't manage to save himself and yet Ahsoka comes along and solves the issue with a simple Force push. Oh well.

On it's own, I really liked this episode. I thought the trilogy was really well done and was easily the best thing we've seen in season 3. That said...

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I'm upset they decided to ignore continuity again for the sake of storytelling. I liked the Coruscant Nights books, and now there's an inconsistency with who was in book 1, and who Pavan's master is. I did like the suggestion someone came up with to make that person Evan Piell, Even Piell's twin brother. If they did that retcon, I'd be happy again. Until then, I'm displeased.

_________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:32 am

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Crash OverrideMaster

Joined: 22 Dec 2010Posts: 1962

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I don't see how that retcon isn't any less true than any other explanation until one is provided by Leland Chee or in a story.

Even Piell's death in TCW was better than the one in Jedi Twilight. And I like Jedi Twilight, but his role in that book was to pass along word of the MacGuffin to Nick Rostu, who passes it to Jax Pavan. Any generic character could have filled that role.

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:02 am

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Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6844Location: Missouri

Well a twin brother would provide a convenient transition. The simpler the fix, the better. But as is, the hole in continuity is kind of jarring._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:27 am

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

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Does he actually have twin brother named Evan Piell?

Why am I not surprised?

_________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

I forgot about Piell in Coruscant Nights. I don't know... I can't really bring myself to be upset about this. It sounds like Piell was assumed dead prior to Coruscant Nights so the blame here may rest on Michael Reaves. I was never a fan of Coruscant Nights anyway so it's a small loss for me.

IDK- I'd say the fault CAN'T be Reaves- who could he have asked?

And even had he we all know George trumps what ever Reaves was told. Not they also knew of this some time before they were too deep into the CN series.

God bless canon and the fact that G-level is the most filled with Retcons but never feels like it cause those retcons are deemed "the vision" and it's C-level that gets re arranged for it all....

I don't see how that retcon isn't any less true than any other explanation until one is provided by Leland Chee or in a story.

Even Piell's death in TCW was better than the one in Jedi Twilight. And I like Jedi Twilight, but his role in that book was to pass along word of the MacGuffin to Nick Rostu, who passes it to Jax Pavan. Any generic character could have filled that role.

I think my issue is no one sees issue when GL does this to EU- but if he'd ever do it to himself- ie kill

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Even Piell

again even earlier then this time - people might not be saying how great things are.

And don't get me wrong- I liked the episodes- I LOVED them until the jumping of continuity in the EU.

And no it's nothing major. it's just tiring.

I'm still wanting to play in the sandbox- but only cause I find it the coolest sandbox ever. But if it wasn't so cool. I'd have left George alone with his toys years ago- he's a mean spoiled rich kid who needs better manners (Totally tongue in cheek! As I say this!)_________________-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
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-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:59 pm

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

illogicalRogue2 wrote:

Reepicheep wrote:

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I forgot about Piell in Coruscant Nights. I don't know... I can't really bring myself to be upset about this. It sounds like Piell was assumed dead prior to Coruscant Nights so the blame here may rest on Michael Reaves. I was never a fan of Coruscant Nights anyway so it's a small loss for me.

IDK- I'd say the fault CAN'T be Reaves- who could he have asked?

Leland Chee. His own eyes for that matter!

If he was on the council in AotC, but not in RotS, that clearly indicates he died somewhere between them._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:21 pm

Message

Crash OverrideMaster

Joined: 22 Dec 2010Posts: 1962

illogicalRogue2 wrote:

I think my issue is no one sees issue when GL does this to EU- but if he'd ever do it to himself- ie kill

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

Even Piell

again even earlier then this time - people might not be saying how great things are.

Darth Maul. I think Lucas wouldn't do it to himself without some sort of explanation.

George Lucas' treatment of the Expanded Universe seems to be that he treats it the same way that the Expanded Universe treats Infinities. He doesn't consider it 'canon' to "his world," which he distinguishes as separate from the Expanded Universe, but he will "reference" stuff he likes into "his world" from the Expanded Universe in the same way that the Expanded Universe will "reference" stuff from Infinities "into continuity," e.g. "Resurrection."

I think Leland Chee or LucasFilm is going to have to address the concept of continuity again. I've defaulted back to the original explanations from SW Insider and the SW Encyclopedia until this is cleared up:

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

"'Gospel,' or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers."

and

"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies.

"The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.

"The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'"

I've put it under spoiler tags because it's long and I didn't want to take up a lot of space, but it isn't a spoiler or anything. I think that TCW falls under this similar category since Lucas is overseeing it and pretty much all ideas are coming from him and if they aren't he's approving them.

I forgot about Piell in Coruscant Nights. I don't know... I can't really bring myself to be upset about this. It sounds like Piell was assumed dead prior to Coruscant Nights so the blame here may rest on Michael Reaves. I was never a fan of Coruscant Nights anyway so it's a small loss for me.

IDK- I'd say the fault CAN'T be Reaves- who could he have asked?

Leland Chee. His own eyes for that matter!

If he was on the council in AotC, but not in RotS, that clearly indicates he died somewhere between them.

That's just it- I'm sure they did do some leg work- and I'm sure it was OK at the time he wrote it. Heck he even thanked Leland for his help...._________________-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
-
-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast

I think my issue is no one sees issue when GL does this to EU- but if he'd ever do it to himself- ie kill

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

Even Piell

again even earlier then this time - people might not be saying how great things are.

Darth Maul. I think Lucas wouldn't do it to himself without some sort of explanation.

His vision is all the explanation he needs. And most of us accept that, and the others have to accept it cause it's not changing.

LivingJediDream wrote:

George Lucas' treatment of the Expanded Universe seems to be that he treats it the same way that the Expanded Universe treats Infinities. He doesn't consider it 'canon' to "his world," which he distinguishes as separate from the Expanded Universe, but he will "reference" stuff he likes into "his world" from the Expanded Universe in the same way that the Expanded Universe will "reference" stuff from Infinities "into continuity," e.g. "Resurrection."

Except when the EU does it to Infinites we don't then change the infinities story to match it. We do when it comes to G-level and C-level Canon.

LivingJediDream wrote:

I think Leland Chee or LucasFilm is going to have to address the concept of continuity again. I've defaulted back to the original explanations from SW Insider and the SW Encyclopedia until this is cleared up:

Something. Cause what they have is chaos and is not working well anymore.

LivingJediDream wrote:

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

"'Gospel,' or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers."

and

"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies.

"The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.

"The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'"

I've put it under spoiler tags because it's long and I didn't want to take up a lot of space, but it isn't a spoiler or anything. I think that TCW falls under this similar category since Lucas is overseeing it and pretty much all ideas are coming from him and if they aren't he's approving them.

See and I'm for still keeping the films as G, but TCW is a NEW and MADE up canon level- T-level it is not G-level but we are giving it all the same luxuries. So why not make it G-level then? Simple answer = it is NOT all coming from GL.

And we've seen what happens when GL approves things- they are only approved until he changes his mind or creates something new that contradicts what came before. And when it happens- it's always the NOW that supersedes all.

And honestly I can't say that I'd be content with ONLY SW by George Lucas and George only. Sure his movies are great. His TV shows are only excellent with no other SW to compare to- if you start to compare you'll notice George likes a different SW then the rest of the world. A SW he's still making up as he goes along. I wish he really did have a vision- that all these ideas were in his head for all these years and weren't something new he'd thought up on the fly.

Or we just stop the carry over- George makes a change fine- change his canon and leave what was before. Lets stop adding to the EU with his stuff. Let the EU grow beyond George's SW. Let George's SW do it's own thing. Stop letting the one change the other.

It's the heart of the EU Fan's issue with continuity._________________-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
-
-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:10 pm

Message

Crash OverrideMaster

Joined: 22 Dec 2010Posts: 1962

I'm not sure why it matters whether Lucas is making it up as he goes along or not matters with regard to his works being considered "canon" by virtue of being his -- the creator of Star Wars.

As for the Infinities analogy, when the EU "references" Infinities elements "into continuity," only those elements referenced are in continuity. The story is still non-continuity.

When has Lucas ever changed his mind that contradicted something he previously did? What has he approved that he later changed?

Honestly, I'm inclined to agree with this from a review of the episode:

UPDATE: I’m reading that there are issues with EU wonks angry about Even Piell’s handling in this episode. To them I hope they can lighten up. This show is better than just about anything else in the EU. You can’t keep carrying this water for the EU. It’s expendable. They prove it every week.

The Clone Wars really is the best thing going on in Star Wars right now. Del Rey has no idea what it's doing and Dark Horse just cancelled all its ongoing comic series in favor of miniseries. LucasArts apparently cancelled The Force Unleashed 3, and I'm not really sure what else they're doing. I have no idea when TOR is going to be released, and KOTOR 1/2/TOR have a lot of continuity errors just like TCW anyway.