"Everybody Commits Adultery"

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Super_Ideal_Rock

Everybody commits adultery according to Rudy Giuliani. He said this in defense of Donald Trump. These must be the new Republican Family Values of the Trump era. (We know the role of women in the Trump era.)

"The remark came during an exchange on NBC’s 'Meet the Press,' after Chuck Todd, the show’s host, asked Mr. Giuliani whether he was 'the right person' to bring up former President Bill Clinton’s infidelities in this heated campaign.

'Um, I’ve been married for almost 20 years. No infidelities,' wrote John Bielski, whose Twitter account describes him as a labor lawyer in Philadelphia. Mr. Bielski, whose Twitter profile says he loves his wife and daughters more than his favorite sports teams, went on to ask, 'Am I doing marriage wrong?'

(snip)

Just bizarre,” Glenn Greenwald, a journalist, lawyer and founder of The Intercept, a news media site he began in 2013, wrote on Twitter. “Trump & Giuliani have 6 wives between them & are sermonizing about marriage to the Clintons, who have been married 41 years.

Super_Ideal_Rock

I honestly don't think that this belongs in a discussion about presidential candidates. Adultery is not a position they take and advertise but something that occurs if at all, hopefully infrequently and with remorse, in their marriage, which last I checked was a private and personal undertaking, unless you're Kanye and Kim. Why we must look at one marriage over another as any kind of indication as to their worth as a president is beyond me.

My second thought is that there seem to be a lot of glass houses using rock catapults on this issue these days and don't quite get how it helps - am I supposed to rush out and vote for Trump because he reminds us of Monica Lewinsky? Is Guliani's comment meant to make me endorse one or the other more or less?

Is he speaking metaphorically, saying that we all do things from time to time that go against our moral code or that we all make mistakes?

The Democrats don't discuss them, momhappy. They were never that hypocritical. Only The Republicans did. I was bringing them up because they are so very important to the Republicans, who now seem to believe in adultery.

Brilliant_Rock

I'm no fan of adultery, but I'm not sure what the issue is. Hillary Clinton chose not to divorce Bill when he committed it? Isn't that between Bill, Hill, and Chel? They are hardly the only couple to come to some sort of peace with this. As for Mrs. Trump, my gut tells me that she's more concerned with Don's wallet than his briefs.

I'm also not sure why it's more important that Bill Clinton committed adultery than it is that Donald Trump did. Bill's not even running for office.

Ideal_Rock

Yes, Bill's not running for office, but for some of us, it does matter what Bill did to Hillary and in some ways it affects our opinions of her (and subsequently, her run for office). The whole thing with the Clinton's adultery was shady - much like the Clintons themselves... Having said that, Trump is shady too, so I'm not picking sides here. Trump and Hill/Bill are all equally corrupt and I do not view what Bill did as any more important than what Trump did. I don't care for any of it, but it's not necessarily a deal-breaker issue for me (deal-breaker issues for me are things like national security, the economy, etc.).

Super_Ideal_Rock

I'm no fan of adultery, but I'm not sure what the issue is. Hillary Clinton chose not to divorce Bill when he committed it? Isn't that between Bill, Hill, and Chel? They are hardly the only couple to come to some sort of peace with this. As for Mrs. Trump, my gut tells me that she's more concerned with Don's wallet than his briefs.

I'm also not sure why it's more important that Bill Clinton committed adultery than it is that Donald Trump did. Bill's not even running for office.

I can't tell you, but here's another story in which Donald Trump explains why it's Hillary Clinton's fault that she was the victim of adultery and Rudy Giuliani tells us again how it makes her unfit to be president. It is kind of like being raped in a country where Sharia law is practiced. If you are a rape victim, you get the death sentence there.

"HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. — As Monday night’s presidential debate neared its end, Donald J. Trump alluded to an attack line against Hillary Clinton that he was refraining from using.

But after the debate, Mr. Trump and his surrogates were a bit more forthcoming on how directly he could have gone after Mrs. Clinton and her husband, suggesting that Bill Clinton’s relationship with Monica Lewinsky was fair game.

Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York City, one of Mr. Trump’s most ardent supporters and a constant presence on the campaign trail, elaborated on the line of attack that wasn’t used.

He accused Mrs. Clinton of attacking Ms. Lewinsky after she first claimed to be in a relationship with Mr. Clinton, and then said she was 'too stupid to be president' because she did not initially believe the former intern. His remarks were recorded on video by a writer for the website Elite Daily and posted to Twitter.

'The president of the United States, her husband, disgraced this country with what he did in the Oval Office and she didn’t just stand by him, she attacked Monica Lewinsky,' Mr. Giuliani said. 'And after being married to Bill Clinton for 20 years, if you didn’t know the moment Monica Lewinsky said that Bill Clinton violated her that she was telling the truth, then you’re too stupid to be president.'"

Shiny_Rock

Yes, Bill's not running for office, but for some of us, it does matter what Bill did to Hillary and in some ways it affects our opinions of her (and subsequently, her run for office). The whole thing with the Clinton's adultery was shady - much like the Clintons themselves... Having said that, Trump is shady too, so I'm not picking sides here. Trump and Hill/Bill are all equally corrupt and I do not view what Bill did as any more important than what Trump did. I don't care for any of it, but it's not necessarily a deal-breaker issue for me (deal-breaker issues for me are things like national security, the economy, etc.).

The Democrats don't discuss them, momhappy. They were never that hypocritical. Only The Republicans did. I was bringing them up because they are so very important to the Republicans, who now seem to believe in adultery.

Ideal_Rock

Yes, Bill's not running for office, but for some of us, it does matter what Bill did to Hillary and in some ways it affects our opinions of her (and subsequently, her run for office). The whole thing with the Clinton's adultery was shady - much like the Clintons themselves... Having said that, Trump is shady too, so I'm not picking sides here. Trump and Hill/Bill are all equally corrupt and I do not view what Bill did as any more important than what Trump did. I don't care for any of it, but it's not necessarily a deal-breaker issue for me (deal-breaker issues for me are things like national security, the economy, etc.).

I'm sorry that you have dealt with infidelity. However, my post was not about you. It was about a couple (the Clintons) that was very much in the public eye and subject to public scrutiny. My post referred to the scandal and how it was handled by both Bill and Hillary (and not necessarily the actual acts of cheating). I do not have blanket statements/thoughts/feelings about infidelity and I don't see you differently because I don't know you, your spouse, or the details surrounding your personal situation (unlike the Clintons). I'm not judging you. I was judging the Clintons much like the rest of the world because he was president of the United States. I'm sorry that I offended you, but again, my post was not about infidelity in general - it was a statement about the Clintons. As I said before, the Clinton (or Trump) cheating scandal is not at the top of my priority list because I feel that there are bigger fish to fry. I judge Hillary (and Trump) on lots of thing and the least of which is what's gone on on their marriages, which is why I won't vote for either one.

Ideal_Rock

"Everybody commits adultery," says a representative from the Party of Family Values. From the party that claims gay marriage threatens the sanctity of (straight) marriage. Says a representative who told his wife he was leaving her (for his mistress) over live TV.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

How is it possible that they can't see they've become parodies of themselves?

Super_Ideal_Rock

"Everybody commits adultery," says a representative from the Party of Family Values. From the party that claims gay marriage threatens the sanctity of (straight) marriage. Says a representative who told his wife he was leaving her (for his mistress) over live TV.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

How is it possible that they can't see they've become parodies of themselves?

Ideal_Rock

In a world of narcissistic arseholes like these guys everyone probably does cheat. The point is we normal people live in a world where some decent people exist including those who don't commit adultery.

Super_Ideal_Rock

Yes, Bill's not running for office, but for some of us, it does matter what Bill did to Hillary and in some ways it affects our opinions of her (and subsequently, her run for office). The whole thing with the Clinton's adultery was shady - much like the Clintons themselves....

I'm sorry that you have dealt with infidelity. However, my post was not about you. It was about a couple (the Clintons) ... My post referred to the scandal and how it was handled by both Bill and Hillary... I'm not judging you. I was judging the Clintons much like the rest of the world because he was president of the United States... I'm sorry that I offended you, but again, my post was not about infidelity in general - it was a statement about the Clintons....

Basically, I would sum up your posting above, momhappy, as saying that no one else should be offended that you are blaming a wife for being the target of adultery because you have targeted only one wife. In other words, you are saying that you are prejudiced against the Clintons. In fact, you say that again and again.

Ideal_Rock

I never said that I blamed Hillary for Bill's cheating
I said that it was shady the way it was handled by both Bill & Hillary (and shady the way it was handled by Trump). There is another whole thread devoted to whether or not Hillary should have left Bill, so I am obviously not the only person to have shared an opinion on the subject.
Please don't twist my words.I said it before and I will say it yet again, the subject of infidelity ranks pretty low on my list when it comes to my opinions/judgements of these presidential candidates.There are SO many other things to worry about with Trump/Clinton, and in the grand scheme of things, those issues are much more critically important to me.
I don't support Hillary and I don't support Trump, so the issue infidelity means very little to me at this point.

Ideal_Rock

In a world of narcissistic arseholes like these guys everyone probably does cheat. The point is we normal people live in a world where some decent people exist including those who don't commit adultery.

Shiny_Rock

I never said that I blamed Hillary for Bill's cheating
I said that it was shady the way it was handled by both Bill & Hillary (and shady the way it was handled by Trump). There is another whole thread devoted to whether or not Hillary should have left Bill, so I am obviously not the only person to have shared an opinion on the subject.
Please don't twist my words.I said it before and I will say it yet again, the subject of infidelity ranks pretty low on my list when it comes to my opinions/judgements of these presidential candidates.There are SO many other things to worry about with Trump/Clinton, and in the grand scheme of things, those issues are much more critically important to me.
I don't support Hillary and I don't support Trump, so the issue infidelity means very little to me at this point.

"Yes, Bill's not running for office, but for some of us, it does matter what Bill did to Hillary and in some ways it affects our opinions of her (and subsequently, her run for office)."

This is the sentence to which I am referring you said. You literally said what Bill did to her affects your opinion of her. Which is really crappy of you. I am supposed to believe that only in this particular case you view the victim differently. Not in my case, or the thousands of women and men that are cheated on. Ok...

Ideal_Rock

I said "What Bill did to Hillary"
When I said "what Bill did to Hillary affects my opinion of her" I did not mean that I was victim-blaming. It meant that I have opinions about how he cheated, how it was handled afterwards, and how they managed to stay together after the scandal. It meant that I think it's gross to cheat in the ways he did, that it was gross the way he tried to cover it up, and it meant that it affects my OVERALL opinion of the Clintons in general. That is not the same as blaming the victim (I said it shapes my opinions of her because she is the one running for president). There is a whole thread about whether or not people feel Hillary should have left Bill. That thread exists because people have opinions about it. It's all part of the big picture. The fact that Trump cheated shapes my overall opinions of him too.
Again, I apologize if I offended you.

Ideal_Rock

I've never understood why people blame Hilary for Bill's adultery. They are textbook.

Imagine you hear that your husband cheated on you. Your first thought is likely, not my husband, he loves me. You confront your husband and he confirms he hasn't done it, so you stand by his side. You probably go after the woman you think is lying, destroying your partner's career and reputation, the person dragging your family through the mud.

As the story starts to unravel and you find out he has actually cheated it'd be quite common to blame the other woman. She's doing this to get ahead, she seduced your husband, she's done this before, she uses men, she lies. It's easier to blame her because she means nothing to you rather than your partner of decades, the father of your child, and the person you share a life, a home and dreams with. I'd guess most people who are caught lie initially. They think they can fix the problem, making it go away more quickly rather than dragging their families into it. I'm sure it does happen, but it's got to be pretty rare to hear a yes from the question of "are you cheating on me?" If you're in the media spotlight these emotional reactions are what's caught on camera and egged on for headlines and articles for decades to come.

If someone told me today my husband was cheating on me I'd call her a lying bitch. If my husband denied knowing her or being involved with her, I'd believe my husband. I'd probably call the other woman some rather choice names to anyone who would listen, especially if it brought unwanted attention into my home and onto my family and children. Why do people blame Hilary for acting like most people would act? Who here would really invite the other woman in, sit down over a cup of tea, and listen to her side of the story over their own husband? And if you would, how would you feel if the roles were reversed and you walked in to find your husband engaging in conversation with a man who claimed to be your lover and your husband seemed to be taking him seriously?

Super_Ideal_Rock

Did you see my analogy above? Under Sharia Law if a woman is raped, she put to death for being raped. Momhappy and the people who agree with her, because she keeps pointing out that there was another Pricescope thread in which other people apparently also blamed the victim, think Hillary should be punished for Bill's adultery in the same way.

Ideal_Rock

Oh, geez. You win, deb.
I've tried to explain myself, but it's done nothing but make it worse.
Bill Clinton was notorious for being a womanizer and Hillary stuck by him. I question why a woman would choose to be married to that kind of a person. Trump also has a reputation for being a womanizer and likewise, I would question why Melania would want to be married to him.
Just because someone has thoughts/opinions about it doesn't mean that they are blaming/punishing the victim.
Again, I'm sorry that I offended you or anyone else with my comments.
I'm done here.

Super_Ideal_Rock

I have a feeling that most politicians cheat. Politics is a power trip and cheating is too. Many previous presidents cheated. We just didn't have internet and invasion of privacy that we have now. Eleanor AND Franklin Roosevelt cheated. Imagine how that would have been taken at the time.

"Time is not what you think. Dying? Not the end of everything. We think it is. But what happens on earth is only the beginning." -Mitch Albom, The Five People You Meet in Heaven

Super_Ideal_Rock

Oh, geez. You win, deb.
I've tried to explain myself, but it's done nothing but make it worse.
Bill Clinton was notorious for being a womanizer and Hillary stuck by him. I question why a woman would choose to be married to that kind of a person. Trump also has a reputation for being a womanizer and likewise, I would question why Melania would want to be married to him.Just because someone has thoughts/opinions about it doesn't mean that they are blaming/punishing the victim.
Again, I'm sorry that I offended you or anyone else with my comments.
I'm done here.

I largely agree with you on this topic.
It's sad how some posters twist the intent of others to fit into their tunnel-vision narrative.
Certain individuals on both 'sides' of the aisle do it, but when liberals do it on PS it's rarely called out.

Super_Ideal_Rock

Oh, geez. You win, deb.
I've tried to explain myself, but it's done nothing but make it worse.
Bill Clinton was notorious for being a womanizer and Hillary stuck by him. I question why a woman would choose to be married to that kind of a person. Trump also has a reputation for being a womanizer and likewise, I would question why Melania would want to be married to him.Just because someone has thoughts/opinions about it doesn't mean that they are blaming/punishing the victim.
Again, I'm sorry that I offended you or anyone else with my comments.
I'm done here.

I largely agree with you on this topic.
It's sad how some posters twist the intent of others to fit into their tunnel-vision narrative.
Certain individuals on both 'sides' of the aisle do it, but when liberals do it on PS it's rarely called out.

Rudy Giuliani, Chris Christie, and Donald Trump have made a concerted effort to pillory Secretary Clinton. This is an issue of men blaming a woman for her her husband's infidelity. It is about their efforts to to denigrate her as a candidate. It is not about me. kenny, you should drop your vendetta against me for at least a moment and look at the larger issue.

Super_Ideal_Rock

Deb and MomHappy are NOT blaming women for their husband's infidelity. At least that's the way I read it. I also don't see Kenny as twisting anything.

What I do see is that the 3 Republican men ARE putting some sort of blame on Hillary, which is different from what MomHappy and Kenny have expressed. This is made worse by the fact that all 3 men have cheated on their wives.

Sometimes the mind ignores what is logical because the person cannot accept the reality of what it is.

Shiny_Rock

Something to take into account is how Hillary treated the women Bill was having affairs with! She had an entire committee to handle the women as they came forward. Payoffs, threatening, tires slashed etc.
She turned a blind eye as the years went on as he continued to shag everything with legs.
That is a reason to judge Hilary!

Ideal_Rock

What Giuliani said was kind of stupid. But in their world it may be more prevalent than in the real world. As someone said earlier politics is power and cheating can be a power play also. This does not excuse that behavior, frankly it makes me sad for people who don't have a true love in their life to whom fidelity is as natural as breathing.

As far as Hillary and Bill, I do see what momhappy is saying and some are just piling on because they do not agree. Personally my opinion of her staying was due to the power they have as a couple that would be diminished for her if she left. Powerful/popular scorned women in a power couple often fall by the wayside and the men usually do not suffer for it. She made the choice to further her career and look where she has come. I don't see enduring love when I look at them. My entire problem with her on this issue is her treatment of the women who made the accusations.

But as I said before, the adultery is low on my list of problems with Hillary Clinton.

Shiny_Rock

There is a difference between saying "What Bill did to Hillary affects my opinion of her" and other things. However, momhappy apologized, so I will be moving on. Thank you momhappy.

and redwood66, IMO, this thread is about the hypocrisy. How can Rudy and Trump bring up Bill Clinton's indiscretions when they themselves have done the same? It is ridiculous.

There are two (main) people in the running for president. One has cheated on previous spouses. One has not (at least, not that we know of). But the first brings up the second has been cheated ON, which I guess is somehow worse than being the cheatER? I would love for anyone who agrees with this sentiment to defend him. I would love to see the logic behind this argument. I guess it is better to be the slimeball who hurts than to be the person who gets hurt?

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