Alright, so I am a bit frustrated at Tivo here. Let me know if you think I am out of place in my thinking.

First off, I have a TivoHD and I now can't get some channels on Fios due to the MPEG4 changes. The first part of my frustration with Tivo comes with the fact that the TivoHD supports MPEG4 (as shown by the Australian Tivo and Netflix), so this is pure "planned obsolescence." It had been known for years that the cable companies were going to move to MPEG4.

That said, I called up Tivo a week ago and they offer me a deal that was apparently offered a while back. $50 off a Premiere 4 and $200 off lifetime service for it ($498 total). This is of course not a deal, since MSD wise I already get $100 off and the box is easily found at >$80 off. More specifically, an example would be Tivo selling them through Woot for $149 with an included Stream. With MSD that would be $548 total with the included stream. So really, Tivo wasn't offering me anything special (and in some ways a worse deal). The deal offer gets more offensive when you think about the fact that the Premiere is now an obsolete product to Tivo. They are trying to get me to spend $500 on an outdated product, that I have no idea if the core functionality will be broken tomorrow on.

Now, I fully believe that they should offer me something special. They chose to make the box obsolete ahead of its "lifetime." Really, I think I should get a free lifetime on the replacement box as a consolation for the fact that they "broke" it intentionally. (Maybe a bit harsh in words, but they could have easily provided the functionality.)

So I call them back today. I explain how I feel that they have wronged me by knowingly not implementing something they new would be used in the near future. Then I said that I don't want an already out of date box (Premiere). Could they just provide the $200 discount on a box that I am less likely to fall prey to the same issues in the next couple of years (Roamio)? After waiting for 15 or so minutes on the phone for the rep to talk to a supervisor. The answer is NO (no offer of any kind). Basically, Tivo's failure is my loss. I guess I didn't expect much, but this new Tivo would be my 5th. I didn't think I was asking for too much.

Sad thing is I am perfectly happy with my TivoHD, I don't need to upgrade. However, if I am forced to upgrade, I am not going to spend my money on something that is already out of date.

H.264 coming to FiOS channels is nothing new. We knew about it years ago. S3 boxes not decoding h.264 channels is not new either, we knew it years ago too. This was one of the reasons to upgrade years ago because there things have been well known for a while. I don't know why anyone would Expect TiVo to upgrade an S3 TiVo from two generations ago that stopped being sold over three years ago. That is just an irrational expectation.

H.264 coming to FiOS channels is nothing new. We knew about it years ago. S3 boxes not decoding h.264 channels is not new either, we knew it years ago too. This was one of the reasons to upgrade years ago because there things have been well known for a while. I don't know why anyone would Expect TiVo to upgrade an S3 TiVo from two generations ago that stopped being sold over three years ago. That is just an irrational expectation.

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If one was paying monthly I would not be so sure that it's an irrational expectation to keep the product working or offer a upgrade path as any cable co does, but for Lifetime, that would be an irrational expectation.

This is such a BS argument. MPEG4 was absolutely KNOWN to be coming WAY before 2010. Frankly, back in 2007 there were clear discussions, and the sat/DBS providers had already started moving in that direction for the exact same reasons that everyone knew that MSOs would have to use at some point. Sure, the P3 was initially designed back around 2005/2006. However, it was marketed and SOLD as new for more than 5 years. By Tivo.

None of us know exactly why Tivo made the decisions that they made, however many actually expected VZ to move to MPEG4 well before they did. This is not the first time that Tivo has gone down a road that perhaps was not the best possible direction. I'm not saying they should need to plan for everything.

However.

This is Tivos ONLY business. Their ONLY means to stay relevant. If Tivo makes a decision that cripples their technology because they failed to effectively stay ahead of the market sufficiently that they can remain a leader, then it is an extremely poor reflection on their business model, and on their decision making process. It's just that simple. Period. Tivo totally and completely depends on content from the MSOs. It is VITAL to their interest to stay joined at the hip, test, test and more test, and to make nice with customers when they trip and fall from time to time. I find that Tivo met none of these particulars in this case.

I have a Tivo 3, Tivo HD and now a Roamio. I do not like that Tivo didn't update the software on the series 3 when mpeg4 became available. Don't they already have it working in other areas (Austrailia?).

I don't think they should be required to update it. I think they should. I consider it poor customer service and a hint of how things may move in the future. That may well keep me from purchasing in the future if they continue to make these type of decisions.

If they choose to quit updating the software for basic functionality, they should remove or lower the monthly service fee to a maintenance level.

This is such a BS argument. MPEG4 was absolutely KNOWN to be coming WAY before 2010. Frankly, back in 2007 there were clear discussions, and the sat/DBS providers had already started moving in that direction for the exact same reasons that everyone knew that MSOs would have to use at some point. Sure, the P3 was initially designed back around 2005/2006. However, it was marketed and SOLD as new for more than 5 years. By Tivo.

None of us know exactly why Tivo made the decisions that they made, however many actually expected VZ to move to MPEG4 well before they did. This is not the first time that Tivo has gone down a road that perhaps was not the best possible direction. I'm not saying they should need to plan for everything.

However.

This is Tivos ONLY business. Their ONLY means to stay relevant. If Tivo makes a decision that cripples their technology because they failed to effectively stay ahead of the market sufficiently that they can remain a leader, then it is an extremely poor reflection on their business model, and on their decision making process. It's just that simple. Period. Tivo totally and completely depends on content from the MSOs. It is VITAL to their interest to stay joined at the hip, test, test and more test, and to make nice with customers when they trip and fall from time to time. I find that Tivo met none of these particulars in this case.

Just my 2cents.

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The S3 platform has an H.264 decoder. So they had the foresight to include the hardware required to do H.264. The problem is that cable companies did not actually deploy H.264 channels while the S3 platform was still being developed for. So TiVo never had a viable test platform for adding support. In fact H.264 channels didn't really start popping up in cable systems until early last year, and even now they're still pretty rare nationwide.

Had they added the feature back when the S3 was still being sold, without proper testing, and it turned out to have some unforeseen flaw then they would have been forced to go back now and fix it even though the platform has been dead for over 3 years. That's not a wise business strategy.

It's not like TiVo has no option for these channels. You can buy a Premiere or a Roamio and these channels will work fine. The fact that you feel entitled to a major upgrade on box that was discontinued over 3 years ago is ridiculous. If you want to access these channels then buy a new TiVo.

If they choose to quit updating the software for basic functionality, they should remove or lower the monthly service fee to a maintenance level.

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I bet the vast majority of S3 units still in service have lifetime service. Back when the S3 units were still being sold lifetime was only $199-$299 and was considered written off the books after 3 years. So as far as TiVo is concerned those users are not actually paying for service any longer.

If you're actually paying for monthly service then you should really consider upgrading. You can get a used Premiere without lifetime for about $40 and all your H.264 problems would be solved.

Verizon's long-stated FiOS plan since inception was to go IP... H.264 over QAM is a stopgap plan that only materialized in the last couple years. Fios might not have worked with any Tivos at all anymore right about now if not for their change of plans. So from another perspective, one might be glad that their old box can still get 95% of the available programming and not have a total paperweight, less they change providers.

Verizon themselves have been walking on eggshells to make sure only the lowest-traffic channels get transitioned over. They're all either in special packages, 2nd and 3rd tier premium channels, or otherwise (subjectively speaking) crappy channels only on the highest paying tier of service.

It would be nice if Tivo did an update. Certainly nobody would complain. But they can do the math and see how many people this impacts in real terms and how much they REALLY miss that low-traffic content.