YEah it feels like all the smg's need grip. I like the vector with grip and silencer. It's accurate and still has good damage. I also liked the mtar with red dot and silencer.

THe vector can still be used at long range as well. The mtar isn't great at long range though so just stick to medium and close with that one.

I Don't like the bizon. It runs through ammo and it isn't very accurate either. The cmj just feels weak and outclassed in every category. The k7 is good at very close range but damage drops off considerably after that. The vepr I still don't have a good feel for yet so far I haven't liked it but I still need to give it a chance. But so far I notice it's not too accurate and it goes through ammo a little too fast.

With these size maps SMG deserve and should be inferior weapons. They are deadly up close, but don't be expecting to kill people like in Blops2 with them because it's not gonna happen. They have them balanced perfectly, if you are close you can get plenty of kills with it if accurate. If you just spray and pray then you will get smashed by an AR. From a distance you have no chance against a sniper. So they are made to be used in CQ gunfights, as they were intended when designed.

The SMG's are grossly underpowered, The only one worth using is the K7. The rest are absolute garbage, Even up close they take way too many rounds to drop someone. The fact you can't use RF+ EXT Mags is moronic,I don't see why they had to nerf them so badly considering the map sizes/layouts favour AR's. Same deal with the shotguns, Piss weak.

SMGs are exactly what they should be, close quarters weapons and nothing more. Sorry the MP7, the Ak74u and the Peacekeeper are gone, no more getting shot across the map with an SMG. Choose what maps to use them on and make a loadout that fits their strengths and they will perform optimally.

The SMGs are deadlier than an AR as long as you stay within it's range, the damage and accuracy lost over range is horrendous, veper has an ok range, and mtar has amazingly low recoil for an SMG and pretty good iron sights too.. IMO the SMGs are useful in this game but marathon and agility is needed to get you to the weapons most efficient area quickly. And you can always pick up a gun for longe range

SMGs are fine the way they are. You don't need a grip on any of them. Learn to burst fire, if you are just holding down the trigger and not expecting recoil to kick in and have your bullets go off target then go back to blops2 where smg's and run n gun are king. Next people will be asking for upgrades to the pistols cause they can't get across the map 1 bullet kills (minus the lucky headshot) anymore.

He's not talking about the attachment, he's saying don't hold the trigger down and allow the gun to go bananas. Fire off 4-5 shots and release allowing the gun to recenter and then tap the trigger again.

This is why you shouldn't be in charge of gun balancing. If the gun was meant to be spammed they wouldn't have put iron sights on it. YOU feel that's how SMGs shouldn't be used and you're wrong which explains why you're having troubles.

Go to a gun range and fire off a clip with any smg and see how accurate it is when you just unload a full clip of spraying. Then try it with burst fire and see how many more bullets actually hit the target.

And I will say it again. People who got all use to run n gun from the last 3 CoD games are in for a rude awaking if they think that the mad rusher with an smg is going to be the top score on the team. The ARs, snipers,and markman rifles are going to mow you down on most of the bigger maps before you even have a chance to aim your smg regardless of what sight you pick.

The more I play ghost the funnier I find watching the mad rusher trying to run across giant areas just to take a bullet to the head, even funnier when you get to hear them complain at the moment of death. Or the bitchfest in the lobby about campers owning them.

Yeah they should and they do have a longer range (I was mainly responding to his "Next you will want the pistols to hit people across the map comment") and an SMG should be dominant at mid range but they are as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. You practically have to have the gun barrel up a guys nose to do any damage.

Ah, ok. Agree with the pistol statement, And fair enough you could say the areas where the range suits the SMGs are few and far between but inside there decent damage range, they are superior to ARs in my opinion of course, plus good hip fire and pre-firing works excellent too. But overall ARs are much more efficient in ghosts

Ran out of ammo and picked up the K7, damn good gun with great damage. Sure it has recoil as should any gun with a high rate of fire, but that doesn't matter up close where an SMG should thrive. The closer the target is the less influence recoil has. It's basic, fundamental combat.

I Don't think the smgs are underpowered I think it's the AR that are over powered the honey badger and Remington are so OP they have zero recoil and are unbelievable at long range I've not tryed the other AR apart from the msmb and that's just ok very inconsistent.

I find that the MTAR and K7 are both fine without grip. The Vector technically doesn't need it either if you burst fire it. I've actually clipped a guy from the Houses on top of the hill all the way down past the A flag on Stonehenge with it. The biggest issue for most is that the lines of sight are longer in Ghosts than they have been in the past two titles and as such the recoil and damage drop for SMGs has actual meaning. You just have to adjust your routes to keep the lines of sight in your favor.

Honestly I don't know. My overall KD is slightly over one but I'm a bit suicidal when it comes to objectives. I'll take a death to pick up a couple of tags and/or a flag. However, when I'm playing something like TDM, I find that I can run my streaks with them (Gryphon being the highest that I've tried).