BD recorders are unavailable in the US because of DMCA pressure, not solely because of a lack of interest.

Nonsense. All the majors pulled out of the DVD Recorder market in the US with the switch to OTA DTV because they got hosed in sales with the analog units and saw no future worth investing in by developing digital tuner versions. They ceded the market to funai -- who had their own BD recorders they could have brought into the US but didn't because they too saw no market. Nobody wants to spend $500 on a disk recorder.

DMCA is just a copyright law, not a pressure group.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

The DVD burner on the SD Philips/Magnavox recorders seems such a gimmie, it seems odd these new models lack something similar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

A DVD burner wouldn't be much use on a unit that records ATSC HDTV, as a single hour of many 720p stations would fill a DVD5, and an hour on most 1080i stations wouldn't even fit. DVD9s are still pretty expensive (and in some places even more expensive than BD-Rs, despite their inferior capacity), which makes them a poor solution, too. You need to transcode to H.264 to make DVD archiving practical, and that's beyond the scope of a DVR.

The DVD burner on the SD Philips/Magnavox recorders seems such a gimmie, it seems odd these new models lack something similar.

Because if they had a burner they would not be a DVR but a BD Recorder and that would jack up the price to $500. Plus, in the grand scheme of things, nobody cares about burning TV shows to disks any more -- there are too many other better options.

Actually the current machines with DVD burner are considered DVRs. Have you forgotten that?

Why would you claim having a BD burner in place of a DVD burner would make it a whole 'nother animal?

The price difference? Well, that's one answer, but if the earlier models had optical disc recorders, why not the new ones? And as for 'nobody caring about burning to optical discs any more because there are too many other options', can you suggest to me what those options are, remembering that we're talking options that allow you to shelve your stored recordings of shows and movies, alongside optical discs purchased at stores?

...People don't care and are not buying disk-burning boxes which is why DVD Recorders are on their last gasp and BD recorders have never been (and never will be) offered in the US.

Of course, Kelson.

That's why the current machines with both hard drive and DVD recorder have been made up to now, because nobody wants them.

Right.

Nobody wanted to record to optical disc, so naturally the machines have been figments of our imaginations. As for saying BD recorders will never be offered in the US, please tell us what temporal rift you've been peeking thru. The rest of us know all sorts of things are possible, as the ongoing production of the DVD recorders has shown.

I'm really surprised you post in threads for these machines, since you apparently don't like them.

All the majors pulled out of the DVD Recorder market in the US with the switch to OTA DTV because they got hosed in sales with the analog units and saw no future worth investing in by developing digital tuner versions. They ceded the market to funai -- who had their own BD recorders they could have brought into the US but didn't because they too saw no market. Nobody wants to spend $500 on a disk recorder.

It's more complicated than that, as the market for recording devices has always been smaller than the market for people who watch TV. You could also argue that the lack of interest is also what's prevented competition in the DVR business, because DVRs are far from ubiquitous, yet the myriad of copy-protection schemes present only in the US surely has also deterred companies from entering its DVR market, while countries such as Australia have a slew of DVR alternatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelson

DMCA is just a copyright law

...which is used as justification by content holders to pressure companies to abide by the precedents it sets forth. Sweeping copyright laws such as the DMCA don't come about without staunch support from industry heavyweights who have a vested interest in restricting fair use to improve their bottom lines.

Maybe that is what you wish to consider them, but they are not, never were and never will be. They are DVD recorders that have some DVR functionality. This has been hashed over and over in the DVD recorder forum -- leave it there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastrof

Of course, Kelson.

That's why the current machines with both hard drive and DVD recorder have been made up to now, because nobody wants them.

Nobody wanted to record to optical disc, so naturally the machines have been figments of our imaginations.

Don't be obtuse. Their time in the market place has come and gone like VCR's before them. I'm not going to argue this here. It is kicking a dead horse that was beat to death in the DVD recorder forum where its discussion belongs.

Quote:

I'm really surprised you post in threads for these machines, since you apparently don't like them.

these machines? We are posting in a thread for an HD DVR in an HDTV Recorder forum.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

People don't care and are not buying disk-burning boxes which is why DVD Recorders are on their last gasp and BD recorders have never been (and never will be) offered in the US.

Other than what Aleron stated, between greedy Hollywood and lazy Americans (with their so called 'smart' phone embedded in one hand) that want the easy way out. DVD recorders take more effort as opposed to recording on a HDD or heaven forbid a USB stick.
The last point is seen every day here with all the ones that are trying to use USB sticks, thinking they can record endless hours of HD material.

.
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Free, abundant OTA television separates this country from many others. ATSC1 has only been in force since 2009. The wireless industry has enough spectrum. Enough of 'planned obsolesce'.

Best Buy ads look like what Amazon is doing: taking pre-orders. The ads have very little in the way of specifications. I found an article that said they were supposed to launch in November. Possibly a good item to watch for on Black Friday (November 29) or even Black Monday (December 2). Edit: Make that Cyber Monday. It's Black Monday for me because I have to go sit for jury duty selection.

Can't wait to get one to test. Really want to see if anything recorded to the external drive can be read by a computer. If it can, that should mean you could copy to DVD or leave on the hard drive for use on an HTPC.

I found these links on ebay a couple of days ago. Looks like it is the two philips models. It doesn't say if they are pre order or are in stock. They seem overpriced so hopefully when they show up in stores they will be less expensive.

I found these links on ebay a couple of days ago. Looks like it is the two philips models. It doesn't say if they are pre order or are in stock. They seem overpriced so hopefully when they show up in stores they will be less expensive.

It boggles my mind that any company would even bother trying to introduce a DVR with only one tuner at > $100. For the $40 iView/Homeworx it makes sense, but any serious DVR is expected to have at least two tuners at this point. If you only have one, you barely get an advantage over using a VCR in terms of functionality.

Is the "jury still out" on whether or not these can work with cable? Anything definitive yet?

Well
I'm sure next month at this time we will know a lot about the new Magnavox or Philips HDD DVR's!!

Best Buys deal for the Philips HDR 5710 @ 249 is close to what I paid for
my Mag MDR 535 back in Jan.2013. Both with 500 GB HD's.

But I will keep going over to BB and amazon and keep clicking
to see the price and availability.
Right now BB has the best price.
Walmart. No News yet.

One of us will be the first on the block to own and test 1.
Who will it be?

Mark

How about anything definitive over any extra features these may have over what we have now (535, 2160A, etc.)? Do these have a recordable HDMI input?

If you can use these to record cable, and HD cable at that, then I may be one of the first. If not, then I'll have no interest in one. I love my 2160A, I just want one that records HD (and who doesn't).

It boggles my mind that any company would even bother trying to introduce a DVR with only one tuner at > $100. For the $40 iView/Homeworx it makes sense, but any serious DVR is expected to have at least two tuners at this point. If you only have one, you barely get an advantage over using a VCR in terms of functionality.

I'm fearful these new Magnovox and Philips HD recorders may be "to little, to late",

When one has alternate choices like an OTA compatable, 4-tuner, 75 hour HD recorder (500GB HDD) currently selling for under $150.00 w/free delivery, it's hard to accept a 1-tuner HD recorder costing almost $300.00

I don't know what Funai and Walmart are thinking or doing, but they seem to have forgotten there are only 34 days left in the years largest shopping season. (Then again, Walmart may have an unannounced surprise coming "Black Friday".

When one has alternate choices like an OTA compatable, 4-tuner, 75 hour HD recorder (500GB HDD) currently selling for under $150.00 w/free delivery, it's hard to accept a 1-tuner HD recorder costing almost $300.00

You seem to forget to add the $500 subscription fee.
And considering it's a 4 tuner model, that 500GB drive will fill up real fast.

.
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Free, abundant OTA television separates this country from many others. ATSC1 has only been in force since 2009. The wireless industry has enough spectrum. Enough of 'planned obsolesce'.

Crap. I paid $200 for my Roamio back in early September. As Bruce pointed out, you can't forget the $500 lifetime service cost which makes the total price $650. Still, $162.50 per tuner for an HD-DVR that is guaranteed to work with cable is not bad and cheaper than buying 3 DVD recorders which only record SD.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

I'm well aware of Tivo's subscription (monthly & lifetime) charges, however it's my understanding this new model Tivo (and only this model) can record OTA without a subscription. (It also has the other Tivo features (cable card, Guide, etc.) if you elect to go with a subscription).

Granted, with OTA you won't have the regular Tivo Guide, but it apparently can be programmed like a VCR (as we presently do with the current (as well as future) Magnavox/Philips units.

If up to 74 hours of HD or 500 hours of SD isn't enough, it has an eSATA output for additional remote storage. (I wonder if it will work with the recently announced WD-HDST 6TB Helium drive? )

however it's my understanding this new model Tivo (and only this model) can record OTA without a subscription.

Granted, with OTA you won't have the regular Tivo Guide, but it apparently can be programmed like a VCR

I don't know where you got that from. I saw no indication of that when I was setting mine up for OTA. You can scan channels and it will function as a tuner. The 30 min buffer is active but you can't program it like a VCR and record without the service. Storage can be easily expanded by dropping in a new 2TB HDD but an external drive is limited to the 1TB WD DVR expander.

If you want to use big external drives, the CM-7500 will have 2-tuners and guide scheduling for OTA. At $250 it comes with 16GB internal and USB ports for generic USB drives up to at least 3TB.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Storage can be easily expanded by dropping in a new 2TB HDD but an external drive is limited to the 1TB WD DVR expander.

Actually the Roamio can take up to a 3tb drive internally by just replacing it's standard drive. Or 4tb if one is willing to buy the drive from Weaknees that they somehow do something to it to make it work.

I don't know where you got that from. I saw no indication of that when I was setting mine up for OTA. You can scan channels and it will function as a tuner. The 30 min buffer is active but you can't program it like a VCR and record without the service. Storage can be easily expanded by dropping in a new 2TB HDD but an external drive is limited to the 1TB WD DVR expander.

If you want to use big external drives, the CM-7500 will have 2-tuners and guide scheduling for OTA. At $250 it comes with 16GB internal and USB ports for generic USB drives up to at least 3TB.

I read about the OTA programming (w/o subscribtion) from buyers posts, shortly after the Roamio was introduced.
Perhaps their understanding or my memory is faulty.

Only original TiVo series 1 (and possibly 2?) units had VCR functions without a subscription, and neither of them supported DTV. You need at least a series 3 for DTV, and none of those models function without a subscription, nor do any of their successors.

Is the "jury still out" on whether or not these can work with cable? Anything definitive yet?

Well
I'm sure next month at this time we will know a lot about the new Magnavox or Philips HDD DVR's!!

Best Buys deal for the Philips HDR 5710 @ 249 is close to what I paid for
my Mag MDR 535 back in Jan.2013. Both with 500 GB HD's.

But I will keep going over to BB and amazon and keep clicking
to see the price and availability.
Right now BB has the best price.
Walmart. No News yet.

One of us will be the first on the block to own and test 1.
Who will it be?

Mark

How about anything definitive over any extra features these may have over what we have now (535, 2160A, etc.)? Do these have a recordable HDMI input?

If you can use these to record cable, and HD cable at that, then I may be one of the first. If not, then I'll have no interest in one. I love my 2160A, I just want one that records HD (and who doesn't).