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Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

Yeah, I mean I understand that it's not fun to listen to someone complain about every call when most of them seem to be legitimate calls, some fans are just like that. But at the same time... there are still bad calls. I don't feel remotely bad about complaining when I legitimately feel they got something wrong at my team's expense, and I can acknowledge when they screw the other team over as well.

I'm not specifically targeting you, just an example, but when is the last time you said Refs made the wrong call, that should have benefited the other team. I can admit that last night, the Pacers got the benefit of the doubt on the whistle down the stretch. I do think they made the right call on the PG 3 FT's though. Maybe not in the past, but this team will get the benefit of the doubt more than not because they are now recognized as one of the best teams in the NBA. It's dumb, but thats just how it works.

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

I personally don't care about the complaining of the officiating as it is obviously far from a perfect science.

I do hate it when fans comment and make it seem like the refs are out to "screw over" a specific team. Bad calls are going to be called on teams throughout each game, but referees aren't going out of their way to make sure they make bad calls against one team while ignoring the calls for the other team.

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

Why is there always this plea to leave the officials alone in our criticisms. We are only commenting on what we see during the game. Officiating is part of the game. Its okay to vent about it after the game. Joey Crawford is wild card, and the only thing consistent about him is that he will call what ever he pleases at any moment in the game.

Because 98% of the time it is the same thing. yes there were bad calls both ways. what else is there to say, I mean if you enjoy the technical aspects of officiating I can understand that, but otherwise isn't it just not very beneficial. I suppose we can discuss every bad call throughout every game, I just don't know what that accomplishes

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

I personally don't care about the complaining of the officiating as it is obviously far from a perfect science.

I do hate it when fans comment and make it seem like the refs are out to "screw over" a specific team. Bad calls are going to be called on teams throughout each game, but referees aren't going out of their way to make sure they make bad calls against one team while ignoring the calls for the other team.

Tim Donaghy did it, and no one had the slightest clue. What changes were made to ensure it couldn't or wouldn't happen again? The NBA pretends that their officiating is above reproach, and when they employed a confessed cheater, it's hard for me to really put a whole lot of faith in their ability to sniff it out.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

I really don't want to make this another officiating argument, but it really grinds my gears that when you question the sancity of NBA officiating, you're branded a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, even though we already know it can and did happen. Tim Donaghy happened, whether it's acknowledge or not. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

I can handle the occassional bad call. After all, it is possible for two different people to view the same thing and to interpret it differently. When multiple bad calls against your team occur during a critical stretch of a game it sucks... But it does happen very infrequently.

The call that actually makes me irate is when you have seen a replay from multiple views, then come to realize that not only did you get a bad call, but that the referee that made the call, could not possibly have seen the foul that was allegedly committed from where he was positioned.. And, I have to say that Joey Crawford is guilty of this. Overall, I'd bet that we do pretty good when Crawford refs our games. But this one thing makes me dread seeing him at the tipoff of our games.

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

I really don't want to make this another officiating argument, but it really grinds my gears that when you question the sancity of NBA officiating, you're branded a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, even though we already know it can and did happen. Tim Donaghy happened, whether it's acknowledge or not. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

The problem is that it becomes "fool me once, shame on you. From then on, EVERYTHING is an attempt to fool me..." which isn't so much vigilance as paranoia.

Yes, it could happen, but if every fan complaining about the refs was right that it was part of the conspiracy, even the most Keystone Kops law enforcement would have run it down by now.

Someone, somewhere, got hit with a meteorite. Proves that it can happen, doesn't mean you have to wear full armor plate every time you go outside.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

I already ripped that game to DVD. I was lucky I had my capture card running for some odd reason. That was ugly, but such a great back and fourth game. I am going to enjoy having that in my collection.

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

The problem is that it becomes "fool me once, shame on you. From then on, EVERYTHING is an attempt to fool me..." which isn't so much vigilance as paranoia.

Yes, it could happen, but if every fan complaining about the refs was right that it was part of the conspiracy, even the most Keystone Kops law enforcement would have run it down by now.

Someone, somewhere, got hit with a meteorite. Proves that it can happen, doesn't mean you have to wear full armor plate every time you go outside.

I get all that. But when bad calls are highlighted, questioning why they were made gets you labeled a conspiracy theorist. It's uncalled for. I get not agreeing with it, I don't get the extreme labeling of the disagreement, just because.

It's not just Tim Donaghy though. All you've got to do is watch Joey Crawford try and take over pretty much every game he officiates. When it becomes a pattern, that the NBA doesn't do anything to address but rather touts him as one of their best, it really makes you wonder how much they even care. My feelings on this aren't attached to the Pacers, at all. I get good laughs at his officiating, and pure dickheadedness, watching a Bucks-Kings game.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

And am I just misremembering or just making it up, but I thought the NBA changed the way they were going to call fouls on elbows a couple seasons ago? I thought sticking them up, and using them to intimidate defenders even without necessarily swinging them, was supposed to be an offensive foul.

The play where Melo shoved Lance's arm/shoulder, then sticking his elbows up, with Lance getting the foul and then technical is, obviously, what I'm thinking of. If Joey would have just called the first foul, you wouldn't need the subsequent foul and technical to get things back under control.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

I wasn't trying to say that in general, calling out a blatantly bad call is a bad thing. I mean, I do it all the time myself.

I think ACE said it a lot better than I coudl. It's the ones who always think the refs have a specific agenda against a team, and they see it that way no matter what. My example was the Knicks fans this past game. Their absurd bias made them somehow see past the fact that Shump CLEARLY fouled PG, and 'Melo threw his shoulder into PG the next play. No way in hell could you have called that differently.

So I guess more or less, I was calling out the huge homers among us, because it's annoying if you think every call is going against you when it's not.

Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

Read it and weep:

When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

Because 98% of the time it is the same thing. yes there were bad calls both ways. what else is there to say, I mean if you enjoy the technical aspects of officiating I can understand that, but otherwise isn't it just not very beneficial. I suppose we can discuss every bad call throughout every game, I just don't know what that accomplishes

Who is to say its not beneficial? I enjoy ripping the officials for terrible calls. Its fun. Its not about discussing the bad call, its more about just pointing it out that it was a bad call. Nothing actually has to come from it. I can't wait until I get to sit down close to the court again. I've got entire list of Official heckling that I've been collecting over time.

"I'm Blind, Can't see...might as well be a Referee!"
"Hey Joey! Do need to go check your voicemail? Cause you been missing alot of calls!"

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

But I don't think people are conspiracy theorists when they see Crawford asserting his theory when he decides to stop, make a call that is opposite of the other officials, and grandstand like a ****ing idiot.

I get it. It sucks watching all the bad officials etc. Just the homerism is all I'm talking about.

Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

Read it and weep:

When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

Who is to say its not beneficial? I enjoy ripping the officials for terrible calls. Its fun. Its not about discussing the bad call, its more about just pointing it out that it was a bad call. Nothing actually has to come from it. I can't wait until I get to sit down close to the court again. I've got entire list of Official heckling that I've been collecting over time.

"I'm Blind, Can't see...might as well be a Referee!"
"Hey Joey! Do need to go check your voicemail? Cause you been missing alot of calls!"

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

I mean our board isn't really that bad for the most part, but it happens on occasion. Most of us admit when we see a call go for us for instance, or admit if one of our guys gets away with something. Lot of us have complained about Lance's ridiculous flopping from time to time. BUUT it can happen on occasion, little nerds acting as if our guys are perfect, and can do know wrong.

Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

Read it and weep:

When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

To my knowledge, people who claim that an official made a mistake, or that an official made many mistakes, or claiming that a whole crew made a huge amount of mistakes, are never being labeled a tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorists.

Expressing thoughts such as "David Stern absolutely must have called up X on the phone and told him to call Y to make sure that team Z wins, because that corrupt ref was clearly out to get us all night long, and yes, that game was FIXED, fixed I tell you!" gets you labeled as a possible tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorist. Why? Because you are making huge extrapolations from the data when much simpler explanations, like human error, are much more plausible.

Now, as Woody Allen said, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't someone out to get you. Corruption is possible. We have seen it.

But it is maddening when somebody grabs onto a charge/block call as evidence of game fixing, or even multiple calls against your favorite team as evidence of game-fixing, when a rational analysis would likely find as many wrong calls favoring the other team, but you didn't even notice them due to homerism.

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

When it comes to heckling the officials, I have no clue why home fans would do. All you're doing is making him dislike you and at the very least there has to be some subconscious effect there on the ref. I'd prefer people take it the other way and try to charm the official. "Hey Joey, great call! You're nailin em tonight!"

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

When it comes to heckling the officials, I have no clue why home fans would do. All you're doing is making him dislike you and at the very least there has to be some subconscious effect there on the ref. I'd prefer people take it the other way and try to charm the official. "Hey Joey, great call! You're nailin em tonight!"

The G2 Zone had a "Joey Crawford" chant last year. One of the games it was used in was the one that Lebron fouled out of.

Coincidence? I think not.

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

The Knicks really played their tails off and would have won that game last year. Notwithstanding the beating at the hands of the Bulls, we are a better team this year. Really, I am still shocked the Bulls had their way like that.

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

I'm not specifically targeting you, just an example, but when is the last time you said Refs made the wrong call, that should have benefited the other team. I can admit that last night, the Pacers got the benefit of the doubt on the whistle down the stretch. I do think they made the right call on the PG 3 FT's though. Maybe not in the past, but this team will get the benefit of the doubt more than not because they are now recognized as one of the best teams in the NBA. It's dumb, but thats just how it works.

I do it often during the games, though usually just in person with anyone I'm with or just thinking it to myself. I don't often go out of my way to put it in text on Twitter or here, though. I will sometimes, though. I thought they were letting both teams foul last night, to be honest.

Re: Pacers/Knicks Postgame Thread

1. We switched Roy onto Kenyon Martin and D. West onto Bargnani. Roy was pulled out of the pain most of the night defending Bargnani at the 3pt line. As soon as we switched Big Roy onto KMart he could sag off and provide that amazing rim protection we all know and love so much. I think this happened in the late 3rd or early 4th.

That's not right. Roy was on Kenyon Martin to start the game and West was on Bargnani. The problems arose when the Knicks went with a smallball line-up that put Bargnani at C and Melo at PF. That's when Roy was forced to guard Bargnani. Roy was on Bargs only when Kenyon Martin was not on the court.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.