Within a year of assuming the stewardship of the National team, Jamie Siddons appears to have polarized the fans like almost no one before. Mohsin Kamal did not split the fans – they universally detested him. Richard McInnes had his early off days when many could not see the utility of his new-fangled coaching ways but soon won over even his worst detractors. Of late only Alok Kapali and Rubu can compare. But that is a different show, different channel.

I came across some very interesting posts relating to JS in another thread and I believe the discussion deserves a thread of its own. I am going to extract those posts and bring them here.

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Now Sid needs to amend his moronic "team rules" and "processing 240s", TEACH OUR BATSMEN HOW TO PLAY HIGH PERCENTAGE STROKES ALONG THE GROUND AND FIND GAPS, bring the Big Z and Dhiman back and allow them to play their natural game.

Why do you call it moronic - maybe a publicized target that in concept is reachable helps lay the foundation of a good stable innings.

Siddons is training the batsmen for 240, the difference between the 240 and the final score is a reflection of the batsmen's grit and focus of the day.

I am saddened that you have joined the bandwagon of crazy bashers who infest BC more than they ought to.

Originally Posted by Pundit
Why do you call it moronic - maybe a publicized target that in concept is reachable helps lay the foundation of a good stable innings.

Siddons is training the batsmen for 240, the difference between the 240 and the final score is a reflection of the batsmen's grit and focus of the day.

I am saddened that you have joined the bandwagon of crazy bashers who infest BC more than they ought to.

You certainly don't sound like a surfer dude sometimes.

Pundit,

I like you and respect what you have to say, inspite of the unpleasant way you do it on occasion. So, I felt I needed to clarify my position to you the best way I could. The result, sadly, is this Vlad Mamu-esque post. Apologies in advance.

Things may not always be as they appear my brother. What you consider a “bandwagon” may actually be a gathering of legitimate opinions different than your own in the matter. Those opinions can come from a real Cricket giant like Ian Chappell who throughout the pre, mid and post game show in Star Cricket yesterday took potshots at Sid’s “team rules” as something absurd and amusing, or it could be my nephew Mugdho who lives in the immediate moment, doesn’t care too much about consequences, and just wants to see 4s and 6s. Mugdho is 8 years old.

You can see what you want to see in what other people have to say and make it all about your own POV, or, you can assess some of those opinions according to their own merit. You can either hear what you want to hear in light of your own unique experiences, or you may try and understand the same thing the way the author him or herself understands it or wants it understood.

The choice is always yours.

I can only speak for myself, so here it goes.

For me, good batting means “playing each ball according to its merit while being fully aware of the match situation.”

Choosing to play low percentage shots irrespective of match situation, or not paying attentions to footwork, back-lift and other fundamentals of batting or both, tend to make you overly generous to the opposition and pretty much eliminate your chances to compete in a competitive sport.

Now that’s bad batting because by playing those low percentage shots, or getting trapped and caught with your pants down or both, cannot constitute “playing each ball according to its merit while being fully aware of the match situation.”

Doing the opposite, meaning blocking bad deliveries, half-volleys and full-tosses and showing absolutely no interest finding the gaps or rotating the strike, all in the name of “staying in the middle” is also bad batting leading to the same ugly outcome.

Md. Al Shahariar Rokon and Javed Omar Belim Golla are two very different batsmen who despite the differences in their mindset, style and approach towards batting, have created the sort of undue pressure the rest of their team simply could not bear and still manage to compete.

There are other, perhaps better examples but I hope you know what I’m talking about.

Our young batsmen tend to be aggressive, often disinterested in good footwork, grip, back-lift and other basics, and lost enough in the rush of their mysterious compulsions and impulses to consistently black themselves out of match situations.

Sid, in order to address the destructive pattern, instituted “team rules” and “match goals”. Fine.

Sadly, something got lost in the translation and put our players in two minds with results far below our perhaps inflated expectations after the ODI World Cup of 2007. Zunaed Siddiqui, Aftab Ahmed, Dhiman Ghosh and even Md. Ashraful Matin, all young and gifted stroke-players despite their issues, handed their cojones to Sid, perhaps to be pickled for posterity, and became Gollafied.

The buck-wildin’ Gangsta Tamim Iqbal Khan on the other hand, decided to quit whatever he was on during the T20I World Championships, and learn to harness his God-gifted hand-eye coordination and become more of an orthodox batsman in the NCL, months before Sid arrived in the picture, by applying the fundamentals he has learned in the middle.

Sid’s abilities as a batting coach made him even better and he stands alone in a group where his teammates, by trying to follow the “team rule” of holding on to one’s wicket NO MATTER WHAT, simply robbed their team the chance to compete whenever they succeed in being what they are not. The fetish of improving their pitiful batting averages or scoring in “double figures” became more important than the fundamental purpose of representing your country at the highest level of a COMPETITIVE TEAM SPORT while the world was watching.

Md. Ashraful Matin has always been fond of playing low percentage aerial shots, but he also had the ability to play wonderfully middled high percentage drives along the ground and in the V. Since “team rules” those shots have pretty much disappeared. Instead, we see him just lose it from time to time after blocking half-volleys and full-tosses, and then try to dangerously late-cut deliveries that could be driven safely hoping the inside edge misses the stumps! Then there’s the lofted sitter to mid-on and the heartbreaking yet infuriating sight of our dejected Captain walking back to the dressing room, shaking his head at another missed opportunity.

But that’s A-OK because he has been scoring in “double figures” with a few match-killing 50s against the Top 8, and a match-winning 100 against the worst associate side I’ve seen in 10 years. When you’re not playing to win, complacency sets in, and some find success in personal achievement according to Big Brother.

Those who don’t or simply can’t be what they’re not, guys like Zunaed Siddiqui and Dhiman Ghosh, get demoted to the A Team after getting just a handful of chances. This pattern of punishing the wild Mustang simply because he can't quite hack it as a donkey, is dangerous and will get us nowhere.

Far worse than that, “the will to compete” in a sport that is after all a competitive one, is gone from their collective body, mind and spirit as a team. Scoring 200 or 240 has became more important than competing. A sort of quasi-nihilistic defeatism enshrouds the team with Jean Paul Sartre’s cross-eyed ghost brooding on from the depths of nothingness.

Shakib Al Hasan and Alok Kapali have been the sole exceptions during their magnificent knocks against Top 8 giants Pakistan and India respectively. Their free flowing improvisations on those “team rules” not only gave their team the theoretically probable chance to win, but also went far beyond the “team goal” in terms of runs.

The unorthodox Shakib possibly benefited from Sid’s real expertise, but Alok simply delivered the class we have witnessed first hand in domestic cricket since the 2006 season of the NCL at the highest level, after hopefully managing to chase away the purely psychological demons that have haunted him most of his International career.

Now no matter how Sid may try and spin his way into the maverick successes of Shakib and Alok, he continues to be on the defensive followed by one PR disaster after another.

By skewing actual facts from our past to suit his way of thinking – those not in agreement with that way simply being people who “know nothing about cricket” -- and on occasion being downright wrong about those facts, he ended up belittling the few achievements we have had, and playing with our intelligence and passion in an unacceptable manner. So the gloves came off and it got ugly.

Not very good cricket overall.

I for one, simply want him to succeed, and in order to succeed, he must overcome his denial of what went wrong and why, and how to set things right and move forward.

According to Ian Chappell, a coach needs to correctly assess the natural abilities of a batsman, help him harness and balance that talent in terms time-tested cricketing technique and wisdom, and motivate him to apply that balance in the middle so that he can help his team compete and win.

According to him, killing, rather than harnessing and developing the natural instincts of a player is not only counterproductive and absurd, but also akin to killing the spirit of the sport itself. Playing not to compete and win but simply to a meet some other, ultimately negative goal infuriated him enough to provoke bitter humor throughout the course of the match. He praised Alok because he “threw team rules out the window.”

Ian Chappell wants good batting just like most of us cricket fans.

In order to do that, Sid needs to clearly understand that besides the footwork, grip, back-lift and other technical issues, he needs to: -

> Teach our aggressive players how to 1) find the gaps and rotate the strike to keep pressure on the opposition, and 2) play high percentage strokes along the ground.

> Show his disapproval of bad blocks, gifted dot balls, and finding the fielder as passionately as his disapproval of playing low percentage aerial shots irrespective of the match situation. They need a balanced enhancement of what they are, not the sad caricature of what they cannot be without damaging themselves and their career.

> Pay attention to statistical details and facts of our past as they are. Instead of belittling our rare achievements as a test playing nation and killing the fire inside our young cricketers in the process, Sid needs to use those rarities to light the brighter fire that can take us to the next level.

These are basic things he needs to work into his system if he wants to succeed here in Bangladesh. While he’s at it, having a specialized and dedicated bowling coach by his side, not to mention a few more specialized bowlers such as Syed Rasel will also help quite a bit.

Sorry about the long post, but I’m certain that if you choose to have the time and do me the honor of putting yourself though it all, my position may actually become a bit clearer to you. I honestly don't see my position simply as jumping on a bandwagon, basking in the company of a lynch-mob looking for a new National Coach without granting Sid ample time to get real, learn from his errors, and succeed.

I try hard not to play such bad cricket, but at the end of the day, I'm a much better ice-hockey player who can surf a bit.

Peace …

__________________
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (Qur'an 6:108)

Reality Check
Perhaps a reality check is in order. Especially since we, the Bangladeshi fans, are very volatile and wont to extremes of emotions. Any unexpected failure and the lynch mob will be out in force. We will find a scapegoat and hound him out of the team. What really strikes fear into my aging heart is that our erudite and well-informed-of-cricket-matters press might even launch an oust Dav Whatmore campaign. Given our past history, this is not necessarily an inconceivable scenario. We have a tendency to pillory our coaches or change them like dirty underwear at the slightest hint of failure, whether justified or not 9. Remember the ouster of Gordon Greenidge? Recall the McInnes brouhaha? 10. Perhaps Whatmore is made of sterner stuff. He did, after all, last a while under the shambolic and politicized cricket administration in Sri Lanka which is not unlike that of ours. I would, however, not like to take that chance. Whatmore is the right man for the job. Using a business school analogy, Whatmore is like a CEO of a startup and his job will be done when he can hand over the reigns of the company to a financible CEO. But, that is another story, another article. Movie at 10.

First of all I would like to give many thanks to Jamie Siddons for making Tamim Iqbal a good opening batsman who can play some good strokes and also stay at the wicket.The Jamie Siddons effect is quite clear to me, under his coaching Bangladesh achieved their second and third highest scores, one was against UAE and another one was against India in the Asia cup 2008. We should give Jamie Siddons more time to see Bd started winning against the big guns consistently.

I just like to see Siddons is working a bit more harder than he is working with the batsmen at the moment. He should not go for a holiday in AUS more often. When Bd has no international matches he better arrange practice session for the national team players and U-19 betsmen to improve their batting technique and skills.

I think this guy knows what he is doing. He is a opposite type of character to Dav.

I think a good comparison between them is well deserved. This will show us their thinking processes to achieve the goals. Though both of them are from Australia, they differ with each other in almost every single aspect.

Dav played for national team while Siddons never got the chance. Though he is considered to be in the list of top 50 ever batsmen in some people's opinion.

The best feature of Dav is his inspiration capability. He can some times do wonder by inspiring even a very young team. We have seen the example a few times indeed. But if you work with a single team this way you can achieve wins time to time but never can expect stability in the team in terms of performance. On the other hand, Siddons relies on the hard facts of statistics which shows the capabilities of a player. If you can show you can score runs in at least any form of the game you are in the team. Not a bad idea at all.

Dav was really moody type. This was the biggest complaints from the journalists. On the contrary, Siddons some times seem to be too easy going with the team and the press.

Siddons wants the team to perform at least moderately every game. If this continues then wins would start to come frequently. On the other hand, Dav wanted wins some games and could allow flat performances other days.

Dav didn't work with individual players to fix their problem. We saw same player doing the same mistake over and over again during his tenure. Siddons seems to work with each of them. We saw Tamim becoming a consistent batsman under his supervision. Ash seems to settle down. Kapali the burnt out boy showed wonder yesterday.

Overall rating cannot be done yet. Still he seems to be a good professional coach IMO whom BD really needs at the moment.

JS is doing a very good job. I am happy seeing the improvement/discipline in our batting. Being a batting specialist and never being a head coach, he needs a little time to manage the other areas (bowling and fielding). Well, we always had our major concern in batting. Thats why, we haven't focused that much on bowling. Retirement of Rafiq and Rasel's injury did not help us either. Hopefully, after re-inclusion of Sakib and Rasel will fix the problem mostly.

Sohel Bhai, Ian Chappell might want to see a good batting from bangladesh. But today if our boys were out within 170 runs Ian Chappell will be the first one to critisise our inclusion in the test world.
Don't listen to thease trigger happy commentators who even don't know the names of the players or their history. So I would say he doesn't even deserve to comment on how that team should be running by it's coach. It's so easy for him to comment and make fun of Siddons Team rulez, as he would be the one to question siddons if BD made a low score.

We BD fans know how our team played before, how they used to throw their wickets away for the sake of their natural stroke plays. All siddon did was to put a leash on that, and see what happens? We get 3 centuries in nearly 3 months. How long was it between 1st and 2nd century or between 2nd and 3rd ?

I am sure 240 total is a target they have to get at least, so players are more careful and that brings more than 240. Soon the target will go up and up, and one day every game they play Siddons will ask for 280 to 300 runs. By the trend of our boys learning curve I think it won't be that far away.

SO please lets support him for another year and see where he takes us, at least he is showing some improvement. So ignore the comments from the commentators who even don't know Bangladeshi players that well or are the one to critisise everyway possible.

Sohel - I think you have too much time in your hand. Especially considering that you are a 40 year older.

And as such, especially considering that you have lived in so many places, one hopes to learn more about professionalism from you.

JS may be wrong or may be right. But what we see from many is the tendency to get overwhelmed with what appears to them all of a sudden as the "correct" interpretation.

The start is always the most difficult - and one is defined by how he/she endures that adversity. That is what professionalism is - belief in the assigned leader and excericise of application to muster techniques.

Anyway, I just wanted to lecture you (yes - you), and not get dragged into another quicksand discussion (wait till Banfan shows up).

So my 3.7 year old is still formulating his world/life views. I try and give him the full explanation for most things but sometimes that stuff is just beyond him. E.g. he roughly understands digestive system (food goes into tummy, tummy works on it to give me energy, muscle/bone, and poopie). But trying to explain what's a balanced diet is bit much for him. So we have developed some arbitrary rules for him. He must have at least half a glass of milk/juice with every meal. He must have two pieces of meat with his rice. We find that at this stage of development it's easier to do this - easier for him to follow along as well. I'm sure once he's a little further developed he'll understand the need for hydration, fiber, carbs, etc.

Look at the the relative experience of our team, the immaturity of our cricket culture and the emerging nature of our infrastructure. Perhaps JS is just a good parent?

illustrating that this is another of tose ambigious controversies. its like the health care debate. both sides have merit. free subsidized health care for all is good because everyone gets it. its bad because quality of service necessarily drops, unless you're ultra rich. both sides have merit, both sides lack other merits.

which means, we'll just have to wait and see if Siddons' regime vindicates itself.

i had been oppossed to this "killing of competitiveness" myself, but have been saying for long, lets give siddons till New Year 2009 to judge.

it may very well be that bangladesh becomes a team which scores 250+ every third innings by that time. it certainly feels that way right now.

WarWolf, this is the main reason, i stay away from "Siddons Discussions", i feel we need more concrete data to really know what he is doing...patience is key, especially with a team who are really young and don't have as quality cricket experience as much as the other teams.

i will personally evaluate him at the beginning of next year, inshallah. By then, if it seems like we havn't gone anywhere... then i don't know what to comment, because the best positive improvement under his regime is that we are producing 200+ scores consistently and some batsmen are "coming of age" (in the cricket sense, of course ) at a very early age, which is wonderful to watch. because normally, prime time for a cricketer is his late 20s... now we have moved on to the twenty first century where life is fast paced and players retire in their mid thirties nowadays.

Originally Posted by Miraz
One good innings does not make a good batsman and one fairly good match does not make anyone a good coach.

He seems to have some positive influence on batting, but still appears clueless in overall (which includes fielding, bowling and most importantly winning mentality) management/coaching of the game.

the inspiration and fielding "factor" from Dav whatmore seems to be missing!(hopefully, it will really show it from now on inshallah) i loved Whatmore because he is the Jim Calhoun(UCONN Basketball coach) of Cricket, he knows how to built the rght team(note: no rasel.)

At the moment I prefer to remain patient and silent for the next couple of months, but my sixth sense is telling me that this Team Rule is guiding us in the right direction.

Also I believe that some people just misunderstand the Team Rule. No doubt that Jamie’s Team Rule emphasizes a lot to hold on to wicket, but at the same time it never tells our batsmen not to play shots of bad deliveries. Since our batsmen are still getting used to the Team Rule, our batsmen, especially captain Mohammad Ashraful, remain a bit tense about their wicket when they are out there in the crease, out of which they sometimes act overcautiously and end up blocking some bad deliveries. However, I sincerely believe that if Jamie’s students stick to what there Guru says, with the passage of time they will overcome this anxiety they suffer because of being cautious and things will be normal.

As for the greatest positive of Jamie effect, I would say it is the increasing stability of our top order and middle order. At least we are trying to get rid of situations like 85-5 after 33 overs. If the top order/middle order collapses, the only thing lower order can do is to survive the full quota. If the top order can build a base, even if it is done slowly, which may seem ugly to some people, the lower order gets the chance to slog.

Quote:

Oroginally Posted by Dr. Z
Within a year of assuming the stewardship of the National team, Jamie Siddons appears to have polarized the fans like almost no one before.

Dr. Z,

You couldn’t be right more. I have been following BC since 2005 (although registered later), but I have never seen BC polarized over an issue such an extent. Polarization is not bad as long as the generosity exists there. But soon after the generosity vapors, the polarization leads people towards nothing but hostility. No generosity means no tolerance and respect towards others opinion, no generosity means no concession, and no generosity means continuing to defend your opinion even if the reality and fact goes other way round. In the process you become a sort of self-proclaimed “Sob-Janta”.

A noticeable trend of BC forum is the stubbornness of some BCites, which might be attributed to the lack of generosity. And it reached supreme during the Asia Cup. Whether it is out of genuine anger and frustration towards Jamie or to justify what they have already uttered against Jamie, some in the forum wanted BD to do bad in the field. Granted that I am a bad reader and a bad interpreter of the posts (although no one can claim to be a perfect interpreter since no one knows the intention of people except for God), but this time I am not alone. Many others noticed it.

If a list of Kapali basher is made, I will top second right after Rubu bhai. Yet after Kapali scored the ton, I praised to the best way I can. National team after all is the pace for the performers.

If Guru Siddon’s Team Rule succeeds and our beloved Bangladesh become more consistent in the next few months, I will be happy and I promise not to tease anti-Siddons of the time. If it goes other way round, I will graciously admit that me perception about the team rule was wrong.

Sincerely, Bangladesh-Shardul

Post of the thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunditAnd as such, especially considering that you have lived in so many places, one hopes to learn more about professionalism from you.

JS may be wrong or may be right. But what we see from many is the tendency to get overwhelmed with what appears to them all of a sudden as the "correct" interpretation.

The start is always the most difficult - and one is defined by how he/she endures that adversity. That is what professionalism is - belief in the assigned leader and excericise of application to muster techniques.

Alex wasn't even in the team, he just joined the team at the last moment. He hardly got any real practice session with JS in comparison to others. while others tried to follow the rules, or was duelling in confusions, Alex just took it in his hand because it was question of his survival and I credit him and his heroics for the innings. Lets push all of them toward the threat of extinct; I'm sure many of them will produce gems; if that's the strategy, it's fine. Which of JS strategy is working; could we relate that?

I came across a number of dumb / Asole bosses, who are well reputed within the org for that. So the subs just do the right thing at the crucial moment violating all instruction, if things are good, the SL dumb will score all the credits and if by chance that goes wrong, will go back to his dumb instruction and fire the sub. Violating the boss and achieving the best, is never a healthy trend in any team. Run the risk of catastrophic collapse anytime and might struggle to perform as a unit in the long run.

Some similar things are happening around our team. We seem to ignore the vital mistakes of batting first, not including bowlers according to pitch condition, decline in bowling, decline in fielding, decline in motivation, losses after losses etc etc.

Have we forgotten that, this (Shommanjonok Porajoy) was just the normal transformation of the team which was expected on a regular basis after WC 07?

I am not suggesting that JS should be thrown out etc etc, neither I like to extend a blind support. One must be able to relate to the policies with the output, I still can't relate JS policies with yesterday's positives. And one positive doesn't eliminate 10 negatives. That's my opinion. (I don't expect Pundit to agree)

Originally Posted by Pundit
Sohel - I think you have too much time in your hand. Especially considering that you are a 40 year older.

And as such, especially considering that you have lived in so many places, one hopes to learn more about professionalism from you.

JS may be wrong or may be right. But what we see from many is the tendency to get overwhelmed with what appears to them all of a sudden as the "correct" interpretation.

The start is always the most difficult - and one is defined by how he/she endures that adversity. That is what professionalism is - belief in the assigned leader and excericise of application to muster techniques.

Anyway, I just wanted to lecture you (yes - you), and not get dragged into another quicksand discussion (wait till Banfan shows up).

Please grow up Surfer dude bhai.

Thank you for enlightening a total loser like me after reading my long post as carefully as you obviously have, and don't forget to have a great life ...

__________________
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (Qur'an 6:108)

Siddons certainly has a plan and being the former assistant coach of the world champs that he is, he obviously has the right qualifications for his current occupation. I agree with those who prefer to grade him at the end of his tenure, however, one can't say that he hasn't and isn't making costly mistakes. How would you explain Rasel's exclusion, opening the bowling with Reza or picking Dollar in the XI?

Originally Posted by BANFAN
Can someone please relate Alex's innings with the JS 'batting rules' please?

One must be able to relate to the policies with the output, I still can't relate JS policies with yesterday's positives.

This might shed some light to your query: Kapali said -
"I planned my innings and followed the team rule. I knew that if I was there after 40 overs then I could play those big shots and that's why I started off playing as straight as possible and with low-risk shots"