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Wednesday, May 22, 2013

Quebec's Hoity-Toity, Self-Righteous Delusion of Superiority

One of the most annoying arguments that sovereigntists truck in order to hype the independence option is the notion that Quebec values are different from Canadian values and that as long as Quebec is a prisoner of the Canadian federation, Quebec francophones remain stifled, forced to adhere and respect policies 'made in Ontario' that are ill-suited to the more open, socially responsible and liberal-minded Quebec.

It is a neat and glib campaign, peddled by the separatist hoity-toity, whose stock-in-trade is misrepresentation and sleight of hand.
The fact is, the whole idea that Quebec is somehow morally superior to the ROC, is rooted in fantasy, wishful thinking and outright hypocrisy.

And so we suffer through the haughty and self-righteous nonsense offered by a condescending rabble of self-important idiots, who actually believe that Quebec society is superior to that of any other province, because according to them, Quebecers are more 'socially conscious' and 'caring.'

Oooh, in Quebec we are more concerned with the environment!....Oooh, in Quebec we have chosen a more socially responsible path!Oooh, in Quebec we believe in rehabilitation, not punishment of criminals!Oooh, in Quebec we willingly pay more taxes to pay for social programs!Oooh, in Quebec we have a distinctly more vibrant culture!Oooh, in Quebec we are an open and welcoming society!

Arggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every time I hear a blowhard make these delusional assertions I want to throw a shoe.
Its maddening enough to send me off on a rant and I'm afeared, dear readers, that's exactly where I'm headed!!!!

In Quebec we are more concerned with the environment!....

What an utter load of crap.

When Premier Charest chastised Prime Minister Harper and his government for tearing up the unrealistic Kyoto accord, one would assume that Quebec was prepared to do what the rest of Canada was not, that is make significant cuts in greenhouse emissions, but Quebec was also on track to miss those Kyoto goals as well.
Should Canada not have torn up the agreement, the country would have been on the hook for $14 billion dollars in penalties and if that came to pass, I'm sure Quebec would bitch and moan over its portion of the fine.
Now some will point out that the increase in emissions from Quebec has slowed much faster than in the rest of Canada, but really it is mostly a result of the pulp and paper industry almost completely shutting down in the province, not exactly a good example of how to successfully tame those nasty greenhouse gases.

The truth is that Quebecers are no more or less environmentally committed than any other Canadians, much has to do with an accident of geography and circumstances. In Alberta there is the oil sands and in Quebec hydro-electricity, if the opposite was the case, Quebec would be Alberta and Alberta would be Quebec.

When consumers are actually empowered to make green changes by embracing things like public transport or eschewing the big bad automobile, the true colours of Quebec environmentalism is really put to the test.
Quebec car ownership remains the highest in the nation, in our province of 8 million people, there are over seven million vehicles on the road, averaging 12% more vehicles than Ontatrio.
By the way, considering that there are only 5 million licensed drivers in Quebec, it means that there are more vehicles than drivers to drive them!
Between 2006 and 2011, the number of vehicles in the Quebec city area increased at a rate twice as fast as the population increase!

As for doing the easy stuff, like converting ancient polluting wood burning stoves, the province has no viable program or regulation to force the environmental dinosaurs that actually heat their homes with old technology wood stoves to buy a new devices or use fuel that can cut pollution by 80%.

Actually, I'm not quite right, Quebec does seem to have a plan that targets the replacement of up to 4,000 dirty stoves per year. But in a province where there are close to 170,000 wood burning stoves in use...well you do the math.

With 23% of Canada's population, Quebec is responsible for 50% of Canada wood and wood pellet use for home heating. StatsCan

By the way, in just nine hours of use, these old stoves spew out as many fine particles into the air as does an average automobile in a year.

So what is Quebec's answer?Demand that car manufacturers lower emissions, a popular policy that completely ignores the bigger problem of wood stoves, because that would entail individual families actually doing something about pollution themselves, something that they are apparently not prepared to do!.
And sadly, the use of wood-burning stoves is INCREASING in the province. Between 1987 and 2000, the number of wood burning stoves in use in Quebec almost doubled, this according to the government. Link

With all the buzz surrounding the greening of public transport you'd think Quebecers would be the leader among the provinces in overall use and access. If you thought that, you would of course be wrong. In fact, when it comes to access, the province lags behind the national average. The 64% of Quebecers who have public transport available, compares poorly to 78% in B.C and 74% in Ontario.
As for the number of citizens that actually use public transport Quebec actually lags behind Ontario, Manitoba and BC. Link
So much for leadership!

The environment as a fad, seems to be waning in Quebec, Bruno Massé, coordinator of the Réseau québécois des groupes écologistes, complains that in 2005, there were 500 community ecology groups in Quebec and today there remains less than 50. Link{fr}
Now I don't particularly label Quebec as a laggard in the environmental Olympics, it's just that the province is no better or worse and certainly no more committed to the environment than any one else. Saying that it is, doesn't make it so.

But in the finest tradition of Quebec whining, we hear complaints about the big bad Albertans and their horrific Oil Sands. Take for example the thoroughly brilliant UQAM professor of sociology, Éric Pineault who suggests in Le Devoir that Quebec re-orient its investments away from carbon and the Alberta Tar Sands but conveniently forgets to call on Quebec to forgo the financial benefits passed on by Alberta to Quebec via transfer payments. Link{fr}Hypocrisy, thy name is Quebec!

In Quebec we have chosen a more socially responsible path!

Quebecers are quick to point out that they are open to paying higher taxes in order to fund socially progressive programs, like $7 a day public childcare, cheap university tuition, generous parental and maternity leave, prescription medicine programs, etc. etc.
Of course Quebecers are fine with these programs because they are such a bargain. In fact the higher taxes don't come close to paying for these luxuries at all.
In fact, add up all the extravagances and you will find, the cost matches up closely with the equalization payment Canada doles out to Quebec each year;
Parental leave $1.6 billion
Public Daycare $2.1 billion
Reduced tuition $1.1 billion
IVF,
foreign students
subsidy,
prescription drug
etc., etc, $1 billion ??

The pretense by defenders that it is in fact the higher taxes that Quebecers pay that funds these programs is really a question of semantic manipulation and delusion. I hope I don't have to explain why.

While Quebecers intimate that they are kinder and more generous than Canadians, the facts tell an opposite story.
When it comes to donating money, Quebecers are the biggest cheapskates in Canada, rating 13th out of the thirteen provinces and territories in Quebec.

In arriving in thirteenth place one also has to consider that Anglophone and ethnic Quebecers are among the country's most generous donors. Take them out of the equation, counting only Francophone contributors and they'd have to invent a different chart. Read: Quebec Remains Canada's Scrooge

For a direct Anglophone/francophone comparison look at the endowment funds of McGill University versus University of Montreal, Quebec's two top schools.
McGill University's fund at $920 million, represents about $27,000 for each enrolled student, while the U of M's fund of $189 million represents just $3,700 per student.
The same goes for hospitals foundations where the Jewish General hospital gets more private donations than all the French hospitals in Montreal combined.

When it comes to hospital endowments, university endowments, religious donations or gifts to charities of any kind, the record of Quebec francophones can only be recognized as pitiful.

As for volunteering, Quebecers are also the 'biggest losers' when it comes to donating time.

So it isn't even a case of money, Quebecers volunteer at a rate of 36%, while those in the rest of Canada at a rate of 50%, a difference of 33%.
When Quebecers do volunteer, they spend less time doing so, an average of 128 hours per year compared to 165 hours in the Rest of Canada, about 25% less. Link

I offer all these facts and figures not to humiliate, but to counter the arguments made by French language militants that peddle the fiction that Quebec society is kinder, gentler and more generous than society in the ROC.
It is clearly a notion conceived in fantasy by those desperate to make a case for independence.

Quebecers more socially responsible? I think not.

In Quebec we believe in rehabilitation, not punishment of criminals!

It is true that Quebec politicians and liberal media largely oppose the law and order program of Stephen Harper's Conservative government.
Ex-justice minister Marc Bellemare said publicly that the Quebec government is out of touch with what Quebecers want, that is more severe sentences for criminals, especially violent ones. Link

I don't think many Quebecers would agree that white collar criminals like Vincent Lacroix who swindled middle income Quebecers to the tune of $115, should be out on parole after fifteen months or that one of the under age teens guilty of a violent murder of an elderly Vietnamese woman should be subject to less than three years in jail.
Read some reader reactions to that crime and then tell me that Quebecers are so different form Canadians in demanding a punishment that fits the crime. Link

In Quebec we have a distinctly more vibrant culture!

I often hear separatists tell me that Canadian English culture is just a pale imitation of its American big brother.
This usually comes from someone who couldn't discern between a Texas twang and the nasal dialect of Brooklyn or Jersey.
Discussing whose culture is better, is like comparing your children to my children, where beauty is decidedly in the eyes of beholder.
But one thing is sure, there's nothing innovative or different in Quebecois culture where the top television shows are low rent French versions of the Dragons Den or the Price is Right and the top show an insipidly boring and dreary version of THE VIEW on Sunday night with stars and personalities that are most generously described as 'local.'

The heavily subsidized movie industry, is lucky to crack out just two or three decent movies a year.
As for music, dance, theater, and literature, well, I'll remain polite and say it isn't any worse than Canadian.
Nothing to see here, move along.....

InQuebec we are an open and welcoming society!

You can almost choke listening to the above words, which probably were spoken by someone deep in the lily-white, Francophone hinterland of Quebec, where talk of ethnic diversity is limited to discussions of German Shepherds, Black labs and Siamese cats.
Quebec is by any measure the most xenophobic, anti-immigrant province in Canada, where language is an excuse for cultural and ethnic bashing.
While Quebec boasts that it is open and welcoming, the unemployment rate for immigrants towers above anything else in Canada.
Try applying for a job with an 'ethnic' name in Quebec and you have a 50% less chance of getting an interview. Link
One only has to read the very open denunciations on vigile.net to understand the utter disdain and hate that pervades much of the province that sees immigrants as pollutants, a clear and present danger to Quebec cultural purity.

And there it is, a rant some might describe as a hurtful and hateful, but necessary because nobody in the mainstream press is willing to put the bell on the cat of the distasteful and false myth of Quebec 'superiority'.

Quebecers are what they are, no better or no worse than Canadians, certainly not culturally socially or politically superior to their Canadian cousins and not inferior, just ever so slightly different.
While Quebec claims that they are big differences, there is not that much that distinguishes them from the other Canadians and the reality is that what we have in common is much important than what differentiates us.

206 comments:

Hey Editor! What happened here? I was expecting to read Part II on the report card of the stooges running Quebec from the National Disassembly. Did you forget?

What you wrote above has been written before. Quebec is a loser society, and you reiterated that the generosity of the programs is thanks to federal equalization payments. What happened to the report card?

Excellent post Editor. Many valid points. I once debated a Quebecois co-worker who was convinced that universal healthcare was a Quebec only characteristic (the reason why our taxes were so much higher than Ontario's). This clown never set foot in another province and his only travel experience was a shitty all-inclusive vacation in the Caribbean (typical Quebecois). As far as the Superior Culture argument goes, growing up during the 70's and 80's, I'd watch French TV from time to time and the words tacky or kitschy would not even come close to describing the crap their "creative artists" we're producing. Up until the 2000's, Franco Quebec was still in the cultural dark ages. Some of the resident trolls routinely make fun of Canadian culture and how it's the poor cousin of Hollywood. My brother in-law, who grew up in Montreal, now writes for one of the networks in Hollywood and has been hired as an in house writer for a studio. His career arc started when he left Montreal for Toronto, then New York and now hes doing very well in Hollywood, which is not uncommon. The typical career arc for a Quebecois artist or creative person is to move to Montreal and die in obscurity. Los Angeles had, up until recently, the fourth largest Canadian population of any North American city. Creative English speaking Canadians move south to further their career, they don't stay in Canada. A large part of American culture, is actually made by Canadians. So when they slag Canadian culture they should take into account a lot of the movies and TV shows coming out of Hollywood too whereas 99% of the stuff produced in Quebec isn't seen by a soul outside of here. Other than a half dozen films, a circus and Celine, most of it is un-marketable.

There are a number of series who were reprised in France (many in France are unaware that Un gars, une Fille which used to take between 25-33% of all watchers, is a cultural import from Quebec)

In comparison, as you well note, there is no such thing as Canadian television or cinema because Canadians leave to the US whenever there is a remote possibility of becoming successful.

And that's fine for them, but it does mean that Canadians don't have media that showcase stories of interest to Canadians more than Americans. The British and Australians, in comparison, produce quality TV and cinema like Canada never will, even though Australia's population is much less than Canada.

This is due to the fact that the US is English and next door, so English Canadians are attracted there in a way that is less feasible for brits and australians. The language barrier in Quebec does at least mean that local content is feasible, even if most of it is cheap remakes of american shows.

Care to enlighten the rest of us on the obviously many entertainment products created in Quebec that are enjoyed internationally, beyond those mentioned, best to educate the rest of us on them rather than simply chastise those for not knowing. Please refrain from mentioning products created by international companies with offices in Quebec.

Thatguy : I am not a media mogul to be able to drag out a comprehensive list. These are the ones I know.

There is Un Gars, Une Fille which was reprised in more than 20 countries, but that one is already mentioned. Les Bougons was reprised in France, but I'm unaware of more TV series that were reprised there.

As for movies, Louis 19, roi des ondes was reprised in the states as Ed TV, La grande séduction, Starbuck and De père en flic were also (or are slated to be) remade in America, les trois p'tits cochons was remade in France, but there's probably others.

That is without mentioning M. Lazahre, Rebelle, and Incendies which were oscar nominees in the past few years.

Quebec cultural products will never rival American ones, and not even British or French ones, but that is to be expected of a population of 8 millions. But while a lot of it is tripe, there is also a lot of it that isn't.

In Quebec, “international” is a code word for “France”. Francophone artists from Quebec rush off to Paris as fast as humanly possible to see whether they can hit the big time (generally failing à la Julie Snyder)… and then seppies turn around to denigrate anglophones who do the same thing in New York or L.A.

Half those names are unknown by a large number of Quebecers, not to mention by the vast majority of Canadians, let alone, say, by a Vermonter, so spare me the delusions of grandeur that they are "all enjoyed internationally".

How nice to see "vrai Quebecois" like Leonard Cohen, Margie Gillis and Arcade Fire on that list. Arcade Fire were "persona non grata" at Quebec's annual ADISQ music awards for years, despite the band's international success. The band were eventually nominated for ADISQ prizes -- but only after the band had won big at the Grammys and the Brit Awards. It looks like ADISQ didn't consider Arcade Fire worth its time until the band made it big in the English-speaking world ;)http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2011/10/13/no-arcade-fire-at-the-adisq-gala/

1642: What you have is an organization that only wants to promote their own kind because nobody else will entertain their offerings for two minutes. Arcade Fire doesn't need praise from ADISQ or other like organizations that are no more signficant than a tick on a dog. What are ticks good for? Lime disease!

ADISQ and like orgnizations are self-congratulatory Quebec nationalist brainless storms that are about as interesting as a truck load of fertilizer.

I believe you are delusional. 99% of the list that you provided is not know outside of Quebec society. I am not originally from Quebec, but I am well traveled and have many friends "internationally". Most people would draw a blank trying to recognize most of the artist on you list.

Keep telling yourself whatever you need however. But I stand by the observation the Celine Dion and Cirque comment. Your comment is nothing more than a typical defense in the name of a existential identity crisis. So typical.

EDITOR:I believe that the point you are trying to make is that quebec sucks somehow.Why do you still live in quebec if it sucks?You folks - the regulars here and the trolls - are actually loving to complain about your lives while accomplishing nothing. At best, your combined whining should be considered a hobby in which you all pat each other on the backs for your miseries and sufferings.I have yet to witness this anywhere else in Canada.This would be like living in an abusive relationship where you tell your spouce you're OK and loving it.

If you have yet to witness that anywhere else in Canada you have not looked very hard. I live in Winnipeg currently, and likely will for the foreseeable future. I can tell you we complain just as much about the massive problems we have in this province and city as anyone in Quebec. When I lived in Ontario I complained there too, and find me a place anywhere in this country that does not do there fair share of complaining about the feds.

I believe it's the same for anyone who loves a place despite its problems, sometimes "complaining" airing your grievances and expressing your ideas among one another is all that can be done. Perhaps you create awareness, perhaps you change a few minds, regardless shutting up and going away is not really a solution and rebellion is hardly as easy and clean a thing as some would like to believe. Social activism even if it's just a blog can and does help, it may be just a drop in the bucket and not worth the time of a superior man of action such as yourself but too the rest of us this kind of dialogue is very useful.

A abusive relationship is a poor metaphor. It's actually more like an intervention, just because a person you love is imperfect does not mean you stop loving them. Talking openly with them about what's wrong and what needs to change even if it may hurt is the first step, even if they don't listen at first you may just get through to them one day. Forgive me if I see that kind of loyalty to a person, a place, or a people an admirable thing and not something to sneer at.

No self respecting federalist anglophone would make the above statement if speaking of the politics in quebec. To be excluded from coverage of our Rights and Freedoms by our own provincial government, it's pretty difficult to "love quebec". To love your neighbourhood and the surrounding area in which you reside is totally different than "loving quebec" - I also love my neighbourhood and have for 60 years but that doesn't excuse the deliberate anglophone cleansing that some of the people in Gatineau participate in and/or support. We have had a terrific neighbourhood for many, many years until the IF came into play and until the PQ came into power. The IF are causing much friction here for absolutely no reason other than to try to pull this area with them on their way to independence. This is part of the National Capital Region and should not be subjected to all the garbage that the IF try to push on the residents. All this does is drive business across the border hurting our own city's restaurants, grocery stores, etc. If they refuse to serve the anglophones in the language of their choice, which is english, we just cross the border. Stupid game to play with people's livelihood but, again, the separatists don't give a damn about anything but themselves.

Never underestimate the power of the 'WORD'! To you, we are wasting time complaining. To us, we're igniting political awareness!!

"Words can move mountains"

"The pen is mightier than the sword."

And finally a very enlightened individual remarked: “Your own words are the bricks and mortar of the dreams you want to realize. Your words are the greatest power you have. The words you choose and their use establish the life you experience.”

Considering the amount of buzz this blog is generating compared to virtually any other blog dealing with Quebec affairs, I beg to differ as well. Most other bloggers are rightfully green with envy at the Editor's success.

In fact, does anyone know of another Quebec blog that has such a busy comment section as this one?

@Cutie Fair enough. I do not live in Quebec, in fact I never really lived their. I do still have family there and used to stay in Quebec for several months at a time during construction season but you're right I do not have to live with it. That's one of the reasons I am usually pretty reticent to comment, kinda feel it's not my place.

For the most part though I do get the sense from my family and many other anglophones when I used to work in Quebec that they do indeed care about the place which is why they so desperately want things to change. I suppose there is of course those whose motivation is more about protecting there own rights and those of there community than trying to heal the problems out of patriotism. There's nothing wrong with that motivation I believe anyone can understand that, I certainly did not mean to speak for everyone.

Sorry DB - was referring to the comment by Anonymous that he moved from Ontario to quebec 2 years ago and "loves quebec" - your remarks were quite fine - next time I will be more careful to ensure I mark to whom I'm responding - by the way - good for you - not living here is your best decision.

I've always been disgusted with these self-appointed stereotypes from seppies who see themselves as the members of a Utopian society that could do no wrong and somehow knows how to enjoy life so much more than the rest of the world.

I think the ones about vibrant culture and being more concerned with the environment are the worst.

Good for you, you are bang on again. The province of Quebec is the most racist, bigoted, intolerant, xenophobic province or state in all of North America, decades of anti-English language bigotry proves this very well – The racist Bills 22, 178, 101...the province, the French are just full of hate and not just in Quebec…they are all over Canada.

They run the country, they funnel money where they want…watch the clip below…they are bankrupting the whole nation. They are not to be trusted at all.

The French see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe. As for the facts, the truth, reason, logic, critical thinking...good luck with that.

Unfortunately very true James - they are all afraid of quebec politicians and the breakup of Canada but the stance they take is making things worse, not better. The feds should be coming down hard on quebec at this point in time and toss the damn dice. Either they're in this f---ing country or they're not! Stand up for the country now and start playing hardball with these separatists. There is no other solution than partitioning this damn place and let those areas out of confederation and all the benefits of belonging to the federation and those areas that want to go - go dammit! Enough of this is more than enough. We will see who's still in the federal and provincial government at the end of it all. Those sneaky/slimy separatists that hide under the umbrella of the federal government can then move to where they belong - to the new country of quebec and those of us that want to remain will be a benefit to the country rather than a burden. We've wasted enough time with these fools! I personally want them gone and if I'm unfortunate enough to be in an area that votes to leave Canada, I'm hoping that our Canadian friends will be able to assist me in my move from here. It will be a new charity but one that will be needed to help out our friends that are caught here in this fascist province. The longer we wait the more territory we will lose. The natives will be the winners in all this with the right by vote to keep their land in Canada.

FROM EDJames Wolfe, where do get these crazy ideas? You make it sound like an alien invasion. What country are they supposed to be bankrupting. Are you talking about Quebec or Canada? Quebec is not a country. Ed

Ed, they're bankrupting both. I cannot believe Harper is allowing this. It's not as if he has won any kind of favour from Quebec that he owes Quebec or he'll lose favour. Yes, that's pork barrell politics but what politics isn't pork barrell?

This whole goddamn country runs on hypocricy. Prior to joining the Conservatives, you had Harper himself leading the National Citizen's Coalition yapping about fat cat senators and intolerable nepotism therein, and look who's now putting his buddies in the senate. You have reporters like Mike Duffy and Pamela Wallin criticizing the fat cats in the senate, and now they're proving to be the fattest of them all.

We are now within a fiscal year of equalization reforms, soI wrote a proposal to Prime Minister Harper on cutting Quebec out of equalization, or at least reducing their allocations based on raising hyrdo to market rates and eliminating $7-per-day daycare except for those making the most modest of wages, not for Westmount cheapskates who are more intrested in milking the governments for all their worth. Too, I felt equalization should also be reduced, possibly eliminated for Quebec because of their disloyalty towards the RoC. I cc'd the Editor of this blog and Beryl Wajsman of the Suburban. Wajsman sent me his cell #, I called twice and never got a call back. I sent the proposal to the Editor of this blog, and recently asked him why he wouldn't consider publishing it, but thus far has not provided me with an answer.

Personally I'm OK with various federal government transfers going to areas where the minorities predominate as it is the minorities who are the federal loyalists, but forget about Lac St-Jean, the Saguenay, Quebec City and other anti-Canadian jurisdictions.

There are people close to me who are still yapping that without Quebec, Canada will fall. Sorry, but I just don't see how, and I for one am willing to take my chances of encouraging Quebec to leave, fight their debt on their own as well as continue to support their generous social programs courtesy of federal largesse (even though, with all federal debt on the books, there is no largesse); besides, Ontario has now fallen on hard times, has been the largest NET contributor to equalization (yes, that's how much Ontarians have paid in minus hom little Ontarians have benefitted).

The GTA can put $50 billion over 25 years in a badly needed mass transit infrastructure that would provide economic dividends far, far greater than seasonal welfare benefits for Gaspesian and Sagueneen bums, and $7-a-day daycare for tightassed cheapskates from Westmount.

The other thing that often irritates me is the notion that Quebec is culturally different with ROC and USA and aligned more to European francophone culture of France, Belgium and Switzerland. Anybody who has spent some time in francophone Europe will testify that - with the distinct exception of the language spoken - Quebec is culturally closer to Tennessee than to France.

If that is your case, YMMV. I am thinking about the food people eat, the cars people drive, the way the city is laid out (with the exception of Vieux-Montreal and Vieux-Quebec), the way streets are signed and numbered, the way people shop, the way people spend their leisure time, the education systems, the government systems, the transportation systems...

Granted, Tennessee is a tongue-in-cheek as I have never been there before. However, I have lived (not just visited) in Houston, TX and Los Angeles, CA. I feel that their lifestyles are closer to Montreal than those of Paris or Brussels.

Of course if you except the oldest and most european parts of Quebec, you are setting yourself up for a closer similarity with the US. I would still balk at Tenessee though.

In truth, Quebec and Montreal (especially their older districts) are probably half-way between one extreme (the super suburb-afied modern American city) and the other (pedestrian/public transport heavy old town where everyone lives crammed in little appartments).

As you can see...another misinformed Quebecois Separatiste with regards to people from the ROC. The author is pretty much bang on with his editorial on the "Hoity Toity attitude of Superiority". Clearly evidenced by our friend SR. SR would likely look, if he could afford the trip to France, Pour "une plate de Poutine" but ....would have trouble finding it as his Joual would be not clearly understood by the Parisian French. ;)

(S)elf-hating Onta(r)ian 'found' Quebec just as others find Jesus. Like many religious converts (even those who convert to the religion of populist nationalism), he is more zealous than those born into the faith, who tend to become indifferent over time to its more dogmatic tendencies.

R.E: Grats on the slapdown last post. See what happens when we let a troll tergiversate once? Next thing you know, the valetudinarian is attempting to challenge people based on his sub-sagacious grasp of English. As you quite rightly pointed out, this impignorates his credibility due to his pauciloquent responses that fail macrosmatic inquiry.

Mis•in•form: Give (someone) false or inaccurate information.Ig•no•rant: Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.ma•li•cious: Characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm.

Our mate shouldn’t be challenging people based on his inferior knowledge of English.

Your hilarious (vous ete tres tres drole). In any event..come out west if you want some good beef (boeuf). Not that shit you serve to yourself in Quebec. Of course I doubt you could afford a good steak!! What do they call it? I am sure you enjoy your meals at La Belle Province...avec le poutine a la carte. What is that fast food franchise in Quebec called anyways?, I tried it once and forgot the name because of how bad and greasy the food was, ugghhh. And then good old SR criticizes McDonalds. What a joke..he really is.

"you can sense a debate will be lacking when one of the parties can't understand the difference between "deliberately ignorant" and "misinformed"

i can see the difference all right. resident evil's sheiss just doesn't make sense. first of all how can one be "deliberately ignorant"? you can't force yourself to be ignorant. so we have to take this expression as just "ignorant". then it contradicts with the first bit where resident evil writes s.r is "not misinformed", meaning that he is in fact well informed. now how can one be well informed and ignorant at the same time? do you get it now thatguy?

It would be interesting to see certain trolls refute the actual articles written by the Editor rather than attempting to troll the comments section with stupidities. But alas, the Editor cannot be refuted and simply tells it like it is.

@Laurie - it's really all they've got. Look at S.R. jumping with joy that a Quebecois movie did so well. Man, what a teeny-tiny self-esteem you must have to validate your existence through the achievements of others and depending on the actions of a collective to assert your individuality.

...I'm proud to have been born to a loving Anglo/Franco couple who taught me to cherish diversity and embrace multiculturalism and stand up to narrow-minded cowards who behave more like animals than humans

...I'm proud that I'm one in a billion while people like S.R, Student, Y.L and Michel Patrice are EXACTLY the same as MILLIONS of other people and have no discernible individual personality traits

...I'm proud of the fact that I am days away from doing what Quebec will NEVER be able to do - declare unilateral independence. I'm about to leave the workaday world thanks to something I built.

No wonder they're so angry...I might be too if everyone around me was such a higher brand of individual. :-)

The post is right on Editor. I have never met a culture like quebec culture that thinks they are better than all their counterparts in North America. It's like a disease here for some reason. Just this morning I was talking to my neighbour and I asked how her nephew was doing since he killed a man over a pumpkin about 1 1/2 years ago and is still out walking the streets. I know both families - the victim's family is still waiting for some justice and the 20 year old kid has yet to serve a day in jail for the murder. I know of no other province that would take so long in bringing action against the kid for his crime. So far he's not allowed to come into our city so he lives on the outskirts but is still walking the streets bum that he is. I guess not putting him in jail is considered some kind of rehabilitation - only in quebec. The whole of quebec society is sinking to new depths and no one is paying any penalties for their crimes such as corruption, murder (3 years for killing your two children), collusion, blackmail, bribery, welfare fraud, etc.

You are so right. Quebeckers opposed Harper tough on crime policy, while letting criminals walk the street. Our prosecutors can't do the job. I remember when they started striking for a pay hike. Get those criminals in jail and then will talk. This is pathetic, we need tougher laws in place.

Anonymous - another idiot with nothing to contribute. Why don't you people find a job - adults are trying to have a discussion here.

Yes Liam - they protested like hell when he was really trying to bring some kind of closure for the victims of violence but here in quebec the criminals seem to have all the sympathy. Backward thinking again.

I worked and have paid taxes to this lousy province (that does not acknowledge my existence) for over 35 years so I feel I have a right to complain about politics that are ruining our whole way of life here. Bet you can't say the same.

I was merely reminding cutie of her swearing at others on here. Not to mention her perpetual state of being a crazy.You deleting my post proves that you are an amateurish blogger, who ever you are.In the end, you anglos have a serious problem in your heads for living persecuted lives in quebec (your affirmations). May I suggest a S & M version of this site, 'cause you might as well all come out here.Enjoy your collective pitiful lives in quebekistan, and frankly I hope quebec becomes free and you can all stay locked in there.Enjoy!

So Un Gars, you suggest we throw in the towel and move? Why should we? It is our home as much as anyone else's. We have chosen to stay and that is our business. If things are unjust, do you just give up or do you stay and try to make things better? You are suggesting that our options are to shut up and live persecuted lives or move. I suggest we have a third option which is to stay where we belong and try to make things better. Montreal is a crappy place to live right now, with the political situation, corruption, horrible metro service, and so forth, so do we just all shut up and take it as is or do we try to make things better?

Hey Laurie - he's the strangest person on this blog. Don't waste your time. Just totally weird. Above he says I was swearing at others and I'm crazy but he's accused me of things before that aren't at all true. I'm crazy because like you, I feel this is my home just the same as you do so if that makes me crazy so be it! I didn't swear at anybody. Just a nut. Supposed to be going to Germany; maybe he'll find some place to shit disturb over there.

Editor, I have got to disagree with you editor when you say:"As for doing the easy stuff, like converting ancient polluting wood burning stoves, the province has no viable program or regulation to force the environmental dinosaurs that actually heat their homes with old technology wood stoves to buy a new devices or use fuel that can cut pollution by 80%." Wood burning does not release more CO2 than the eventual biodegradation of the wood if it was not burned, in the first place. Granted, you accelerate it. I am also surprised when you suggest that Quebec needs another spending program or another regulations in this already over-regulated province.

"When consumers are actually empowered to make green changes by embracing things like public transport or eschewing the big bad automobile, the true colours of Quebec environmentalism is really put to the test.Quebec car ownership remains the highest in the nation, in our province of 8 million people, there are over seven million vehicles on the road, averaging 12% more vehicles than Ontario."

Behind the charade of being environment-conscious, Quebec is one of the most materialistic and consumerist societies on earth.

"But one thing is sure, there's nothing innovative or different in Quebecois culture where the top television shows are low rent French versions of the Dragons Den or the Price is Right and the top show an insipidly boring and dreary version of THE VIEW on Sunday night with stars and personalities that are most generously described as 'local.'"

Quebec is a society is as dumbed down by commercial television and radio as the American society. And most popular TV shows are carbon copies of American shows.

"In Quebec we are an open and welcoming society!"

This is a delusion that finds little verification in fact. Quebec is not a welcoming society, it claims to be by pointing out that any belligerence towards immigrants is motivated by the "refusal" of the immigrants to "integrate". This is a kind of logic which serves to excuse adversarial behavior of the "hosts" towards "les autres".

*This is a kind of logic which serves to excuse adversarial behavior of the "hosts" towards "les autres"...making les autres even more stand-offish, thereby creating more adversarial behavior on the part of the hosts to punish les autres for having the audacity to "slight" the host. it's a vicious cycle that serves noone, but the origin of it is in the local culture and politics.

Shows like La Petite Vie and Passe-Partout were beyond popular, they were sociologic phenomena.

And they were not carbon copies of american shows.

That being said, it doesn't mean that we are superior, better or anything. And yes, we can sometimes be as dumbed down as the rest of North America.

***

Last week, I heard Jean-Marc Léger from Léger Léger Marketing talking about quebeckers. When asked if they felt culturaly closer to USA, France or England, interestingly, one third answered USA, one third, France, one third, England. I just find it interesting.

I remember that many years ago (pre-internet!), L’Actualité magazine surveyed its readers as to whether they considered themselves more like Americans who happen to speak French or more like Frenchmen who happen to live in North America.

The OVERWHELMING response was that they felt like Americans who happen to speak French. Anyone who claims differently is talking through their hat.

PS: That Léger poll sounds mighty suspicious. A link would be appreciated.

While still living in the old neighbourhood, our next door neighbour, a retired French speaking school teacher put her house up for sale. As soon as we saw her one day, (she was back from shopping), we asked her, "comment ça, vous déménagez? She responded in her rather, understated and demure little voice…”tout à fait, oui, il y a trop de nationalités ici”. Bear in mind she said this perfectly straight-faced and to a couple of Allos who had always been friendly to her and helped her shovel snow off her front stairs and landing, several times during winter.

Circa 2010

A very talented young 16 year old soccer player from our local soccer club, (of ethnic origin of course), who had played competitive for several years at a AAA, a true star, had never been invited to play on the Quebec Team and this was always a real mystery to all. While he consistently showcased really well during league games and the recruiters from the provincial team were often present, he was never extended an invitation to try out. Finally about 3yrs ago, while the summer season was winding down, and he was playing at one of the more renoun soccer tournaments right here in Quebec, low and behold, a scout from the University of Texas approaches to speak to him. On the very last day of the tournament, a scout from one of the European clubs did the same. This monumentally talened kid, never got a break locally here in Quebec, no one recognized his talent apparently hidden way behind his very ethnic name no doubt...but certainly had the goods to attract the attention of international scouts. I suppose Quebec's loss is another country's gain.! He chose to go to Europe.

Last Fall our local office, I am sure I have mentioned previously we're approx 20 people and most are unilingual Francophones, (I was hired several years ago by our Corporate office in Toronto) had to hire an admin/receptionist, because no one can really speak English I was asked to screen the 3 short listed candidates. Two were Allophones, one of Spanish origin and the other Portuguese, the 3rd was a French speaking lady. Both of the Allos were perfectly bilingual, very experienced and educated. The Francophone could barely utter a word in English (a pre-requisite for the job) and paled in comparison to the other two in terms of experience and education. I leave it to your imagination who our pur-laine office manager hired. The French candidate got the job of course. She also had to be let go after 2 months because she kept calling in sick one day a week. The entire hiring exercise had to be repeated again there were more ethnic candidates and French candidates. Once again, one of the French candidates was hired. This one also calls in sick often and smells like beer all the time.

And the list goes on......

That specific experience right there...made me think about how many times I may have been discriminated against and never even knew it, when it came to jobs. Fortunately, I've always done extremely well career wise and the entire thing never even occured to me up until then. It also made me realize that in my 20 something + yr career, I don't ever recall actually being hired by a Francophone for any position I ever applied for here in Quebec.

My mistake, the question was about feeling culturaly closer to USA, France or english Canada, not England. Here is a paper refering to it : http://www.legermarketing.com/admin/upload/publi_pdf/060111_le_beau_risque.pdf

"Americans who happen to speak French or more like Frenchmen who happen to live in North America"

What would have I answered to this question? Let me think...

I live in North America, the history of the society that I live in is a nearly half a millenium old experience in America. In New France, the settlers who were born in America took the name of canadian because they no longer felt that they were french. I am not a frenchman, I am a quebecker. So I would have answered that I am an american who speaks french.

Of course, I don't mean american as citizen of United States, but as a North American.

Great story, reminds me of how I was hired at my company 14 years ago. A real twist of fate. The normal HR recruiter (a Quebecoise) who had been at the post for decades only hired Québécois men. This was well known and was the case for years. This is a national company but each province did their own HR. Well, luckily for me and a gang of qualified Allos/Anglos this particular gate keeper was ill for a few weeks in early 2000. Her replacement was a lovely lady of Greek background. She actually looked at a person's qualifications rather than their last name and a whole cohort of Anglos and Allos were finally let in the door of this National company based in Montreal. We've all since moved up the ranks and some of us are in management positions now. Tribalism is alive and well in Quebec. There is a reason the White collar civil service in Quebec is basically 100% white, French and Catholic. People look after their own.

FROM EDWhen Donald Gordon became President Of CN Railways stations were being bombed by Francos who wanted to be hired.Gordon gave the order that hiring practices be equal, providing a man could speak enough English to do the job. This of course was not accepted and the labor strife went on. Gordon retired and took his genius to another position saying, " Nothing will ever satisfy the French they want salaries without working." Ed

I get that 'people look after their own', HOWEVER, it shouldn't be at the cost of everything ...all the time. That's what is happening in this bloody province on a daily basis. AND there isn't even an attempt to hide it. It is completely blatant and overt Racism.

Editor is correct when he says that no one has the b....to call these assholes out and make them accountable. Even main stream media backs away from such a task, when it should definately fall on them to make the point.

I remember when me and a Quebecer friend applied for a Masters degree at the Université de Montréal.

My friend, though a bright fellow, had a GPA one letter (1.0) lower than mine, had no scholarships, internships, conference presentations or anything, while I had plenty. He was offered a position right away, while I was only contacted for an interview four months later, at which point I had already accepted an offer from Ontario.

I can't see any other reason than the fact that he was a Quebecer while I was a New-Brunswicker to explain it.

FROM EDWell put together Editor,. a mountain said in a minimum, of words. As I recall, the problem with Kyoto was that the American manufacturers refused to spend the money to adapt their plants. This put Canadian Manufacturers in an impossible position of not being able to compete fairly. The U.S. has never ratified the treaty and probably never will. Some reasons there may be more vehicles that drivers licences here is because in the boondocks of Quebec, people drive without a permit. Also people coming from Haiti and other countries have a licence which is not valid here but the police are lenient as long as you speak French and have something to identify yourself so they can send the ticket somewhere.. On the subject of generosity. There is a history of selfishness and entitlement with the French that goes back to Louis Fourteenth. Dickens writes In 'Tale of Two Cities', someone asks, "Why are they standing around saying there is no bread? Why don't they go and make some." Indeed, compare this with England. I the anthem, "there'll Always be an England." One line goes where ever there's a turning wheel beside a field of grain. Like many other countries in Europe in those days, men found a running stream that would turn a wheel and planted wheat beside it while they built a mill house. Depending on the government to produce food is the French way.

In Quebec it became the job of the Church to direct their lives, tell them what to do and when to do it.The English ( Irish, Scots, Brits etc) here descended from the old country ways of hard work and sharing. During World War II My father and four others tilled the soil in the forest of Verdun (now all houses) and grew enormous quantities of vegetables which were distributed to needy families in our area. As a boy, I stood between the shafts of a converted bread wagon, while my younger brother was directed to different homes with sacks of veg that could be canned for the winter. Many of the receivers were French which made absolutely no difference. I can However, remember thinking , why are all those men not fighting overseas like my uncle and cousins. English started institutions which are now completely taken over by Francophones. When we started the 'Soup kitchen' at St. Wilibrord's Church, I used to finish serving tables and play the piano until people were gone so I could wash the floor. The gang liked to sing along with me but over the first two years more Francos came and so I stopped playing since I did not know the songs they were asking for. The majority coming are now all Francophone but they still serve three days a week with happiness in their hearts for the pleasure of being of service.

"On the subject of generosity. There is a history of selfishness and entitlement with the French that goes back to Louis Fourteenth. Dickens writes In 'Tale of Two Cities', someone asks, "Why are they standing around saying there is no bread? Why don't they go and make some." Indeed, compare this with England. I the anthem, "there'll Always be an England.""

As painful as it is, sometimes I understand the anglophobia of the old franco farts. Much of it has to do with the mentality of the old anglo farts like "Ed Brown".

If I had to face this kind of condescending mindset every day of my life as many francos had to, I might have backed bill 101 in the 70's myself.

Except that Canada no longer decides for Quebec. Quebec is (and has been for the past several decades) an autonomous province-state, and comfortable enough to have rejected separation/association twice.

Ed's views may be intolerable but they have no bearing on Quebeckers' lives as they might have 60 years ago. That's why this line of argumentation for Quebec's separation is an anachronism.

The impetus for separation today is no longer emancipation, but a pipe dream of Greater Quebec. And that's where I jump off the bandwagon, if I were on it to begin with.

I'm sorry I just have to reply.I know it's hard to accept but Quebec TV is pretty much insipid. So is Canadian TV.The entertainment world revolves around Hollywood where the best and the brightest talent go.

Quebecers are prisoners of language and so are used to watching pale imitations of originals or crappy local programming.Infoman? Are you joking? Lame, low budget mishmash. Think John Stewart or Steven Colbert.Les Bougon. Ripped off from the British series 'SHAMELESSUn gars une fille...Yech..Unité 9? 19-2. A series based on the heroic sad sacks of the SPM. At least Rookie Blue has a cast of lookers!

Nothing to see here. I've watched them all. Low budget, low rent. Bring back Dr. House.There's only so much Julie Snyder you can stomach before throwing up.Hey, you think they'd invite me to be on TLMEP

Editor, how can you talk about how culture is like our children and beauty is in the beholder's eye, and then turn around and make such a blanket, value judgement? You're entirely undermining your point.

It's precisely because Quebec (and other non-american television/cinema) is not hollywood that gives it its appeal.

Personally I enjoy infoman more than john stewart and the daily show precisely because the low budget forces jean-michel to go on the ground - while rick mercer and john stewart stay in their chair.

As for les bougons, it premiered on january 7 2004 while shameless premiered on january 14 2004 - les bougons precedes shameless, how can it be a "rip-off"?

I cannot let this go unchallenged. Do you really watch Rick Mercer? He is famous for travelling to every nook and cranny of Canada (including McGill University not so long ago) and nothing is too ridiculous for him to do (flying in a Canadian Forces jet and innumerable other things). He even skinny-dipped with Bob Rae ON CAMERA, for crying out loud! He most definitely does not “stay in his chair” at all; I’m sorry, but that is an inane statement.

“there is no such thing as Canadian television or cinema”

Come on, surely you don’t really believe this! Off the top of my head, you are completely dismissing Canadian output by David Cronenberg, Atom Egoyan and Deepa Mehta as well as Canadian films such as I’ve Heard the Mermaids Singing, Atarnajuat, Cube, Trailer Park Boys (ugh), The Hanging Garden, Lilies, The Red Violin… and based on Quebec’s own Mordecai Richler: Joshua Then and Now, The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz and Barney’s Version (much as seppies would like to extricate their output from the rest of us, this is not surgically possible).

While it’s quite true that ever since the days of silent cinema, many English Canadian actors and directors have participated in American cinema and television productions or Canadian-American co-productions (Hollywood’s highest-grossing and second-highest-grossing films ever were directed by a Canadian), so do French Canadian actors in France (for example, Marc-André Grondin recently) and a great number of European and Asian actors and directors as well. There is nothing unusual in this. The whole world is affected by the American juggernaut so certainly it comes as no surprise that Canada is no exception.

To be fair, I think French-Canadian TV and cinema are, pound-per-pound, better than the English-Canadian. I would say that English-Canadian TV and cinema barely exist. The Canadian TV shows are there because of CRTC can-con regulations and even then they need boost from US networks to survive.

The goal of virtually all Canadian talents is to be having a career in Hollywood or Manhattan.

I'm sorry Cat, you are correct - I don't watch Rick Mercier. I saw a few clips from "this hour has 22 minutes" and incorrectly concluded that it was a poorer form of the daily show. I was engaging in exactly the same behaviour I was condemning. Sorry.

I'm also going to have to apologize of having no clue what all those movies and actors are. I think I heard of the trailer park boys when I was in college? It seemed crass. Did they ever come out in theatres? I know the only "English Canadian" movie I've ever seen play in theatres was "Passchendaele ", and it didn't make a quarter of its budget in the theatres.

As for there being no Canadian television, I know this is not really true but (sadly) hardly anyone watches any of it. Personally I enjoy Bomb Girls and Murdoch Mysteries.

I'm sick the American rubbish on TV and at the cinema. They can spend 200 million dollars and the film is still crap. I'd do anything to see a Canadian film on the big screen. The flight south of "Canadian" actors is because they want higher salaries, not because Americans have better media. Every film these days is a sequel, a remake, a film adaptation or a new installment in a large franchise. Canadian film is vastly superior. I barely watch any American programmes on TV, but sadly in cinemas there are usually only American films.

Unfortunately, English Canadians do not vote for their wallets for local content like French Canadians do. I don't think there ever was an English-Canadian film that got a theatre release and actually made money.

Be sure to tell us if they do please. (at least then I can say, I actually sat through and entire episode, lol).

I also wanted to congratulate you Editor, for your present post, hitting the proverbial nail on the head, so to speak. "Quebec's Hoity-Toity, Self-Righteous Delusion of Superiority" INDEED. Not to mention their utter sense of Entitlement, narcissistic and self-serving as it were.

I can’t help but mention that your post reminded me of a youtube video I saw recently. A Commencement Speech delivered to a High school graduating class, the ‘millennial generation’…they call it. …they seem to suffer from the same symptoms as Quebecers do.

“Thinking you’re the best doesn’t mean you are the best”...is just one of the comments re-blogged over an over again.

In any event, it is a video well worth sharing with the entire Quebec society. It is my sincere hope it will educate and enlighten!! (Hope springs eternal, after all)

Or, it's because English Canadian culture is not sufficiently different from American culture that there is a viable niche market for media specific to English Canadians.

While, on the other hand, there is enough of a difference between Francophone Canadians and Americans that there is a niche market, and local movies can make money.

cebeuq : The idea that Francophone Quebecers, on deciding between seeing Titanic and Les Boys, thinks "I must support my tribe, even though I'm going to get bored out of my tears" and chooses the latter, is completely ridiculous.

My point is the following : You say you're "just watching TV" - that's what francophone quebecers are doing too! Except that the TV they like is sometimes (not always) something local rather than the latest season of Dexter with french dubs. That is something that is true moreso in Quebec than in English Canada.

I hate the American rubbish getting forced down our throats by the big media companies. I wish we could go back to the days of all Canadian content. I don't like the US or its media. I'm sure most anglos would happily watch Canadian films if they were available to watch. The English cinemas just show these American brain-cell-killing big-budget dung heaps and that's all we have to choose from when we go out to see a film. French Canadians, I am jealous.

Je paraphraserais l'Editor en disant "there is not that much that distinguishes [us] from the other [human societies] and the reality is that what we have in common is much more important than what differentiates us." Mais, horreur, nous ne sommes pas tout à fait exactement comme vous et il y toujours cette intolérable différence et ce coupable désir d'être nous-mêmes et pour lequel nous devrions nous repentir.

Les montréalais anglophones aiment Mordecaï RichlerFinally!....Someone making a fair rebuttal. It is a pleasure for me as Editor to have someone oppose my views who makes a cogent argument.I wish more people would take Michel's example and concentrate on debate instead of lobbing grenades.

I enjoy being challenged.

I admit to being wrong as to the question of Bougon vs. Shameless as per YANNICK

I'm surprised that there has been no mention of one very successful television programme from Quebec which is broadcast in my country and indeed many countries around the world---"How Things Work." The show I watched was dubbed in English, but I believe the original script for the show is written in French.

The show I was watching tonight explained how goat cheese was processed. I noticed that the label for one of the products was entirely in French and said "Product of Quebec."

Here we go again with the PQ trying to create the illusion that Quebec is holier-than-thou and oh so different from the rest of Canada. This important measure is a top priority because the PQ wants people to think our values are radically different than, say, those of the Charter of New Brunswick Values or the Charter of Saskatchewan Values.

I guess they could just copy the transcripts from the Charbonneau Commission!

Charter of secularism delayed until the fallBY KEVIN DOUGHERTY, MAY 22, 2013Democratic Institutions Minister Bernard Drainville says the secularism charter will be broader than the initial proposal, which focused on hiding non-Christian religious symbols.

QUEBEC — With Bill 14, meant to bolster Quebec’s Charter of the French language, bogged down by what Immigration and Cultural Communities Minister Diane De Courcy termed on Wednesday a “Liberal filibuster,” the Parti Québécois government has postponed until the fall its policy paper for a Charter of secularism.

De Courcy co-authored an article published in The Gazette Saturday acknowledging irritations in Bill 14 and promising changes, without spelling out what those changes would be. On Wednesday De Courcy would only say, “I will comment on nothing before adoption in principle (of Bill 14).”

On secularism, Democratic Institutions Minister Bernard Drainville told reporters the secularism charter will be broader than the initial proposal, which focused on hiding non-Christian religious symbols.

It has been renamed the “Charter of Quebec values.”

“We have come to realize that the Charter of secularism is too narrow,” Drainville said. “The neutrality of the state will be very important,” he added, explaining the new approach would be “the expression of our common values,” including “equality of women and men” and “equality of everyone before the law.”

Drainville also released results of a Léger Strategic Research poll, which found that 78 per cent of Quebecers think “religious accommodations” are still an issue and 68 per cent consider them “a very important problem,” while only eight per cent believe the status quo is the best approach. One question asked the 1,506 Quebecers polled whether “putting an end to unreasonable accommodations would favour social cohesion and integration.” Francophones were 71 per cent in agreement, 70 per cent of allophones agreed, while 58 per cent of anglophones agreed.

Reasonable accommodations, as defined the Supreme Court of Canada, are measures to ensure everyone can exercise their human rights. For instance, installing wheelchair ramps for the disabled. “Unreasonable accommodations” is a term invented in Quebec’s popular media, distorting attempts by minorities to adjust to life in Quebec. For instance, when a group of Muslims Quebecers rented a sugar shack for a private party, where no ham or bacon was served, the event drew headlines suggesting the habits of Quebecers who do eat ham were endangered, even though it was a private function.

Liberal leader Philippe Couillard said if the PQ’s charter of values divides Quebecers, his party will oppose it. “One has to be careful not to govern by polls, particularly when we are dealing with matters opposing the majority and a minority,” Couillard said, adding that there is agreement in Quebec on the main principles: “equality of men and women, the primacy of French as our common language in the public space, the civil code. We also want a tolerant and inclusive society,” he said.

Recently Drainville described as “an accommodation that is not necessary,” temporary changes in parking rules in Montreal’s Côte-des-Neiges–Notre-Dame-de-Grâce borough for the Jewish Chavouot religious celebration. Couillard differed, calling the parking changes “an agreement between communities on a local level, which is something we should applaud.”

Kathleen Weil, Liberal MNA for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce riding, said when she was a cabinet minister, women wearing head coverings worked with her in information technology jobs and she had no reason to doubt their competence. The PQ program calls for a ban non-Christian religious signs in public sector jobs. “All of a sudden we’re going to bar these people from working in the civil service?” Weil asked. “We’re going through another very difficult debate on language,” she said. “Why do we need this?”

François Legault, whose Coalition Avenir Québec favours guidelines to limit religious signs in the public sphere, expressed disappointment the PQ has delayed its policy document, suggesting the PQ cabinet may be divided on the issue.

Quebec's citizenship minister today said the province is long overdue in dealing with the issue of accommodations to religious communities. Five years after the Bouchard-Taylor Commission on reasonable accommodations, Quebec still has no firm rules in place, Drainville said. “The problem is not resolved for the vast majority of Quebecers. They want it resolved,” he said.

He pointed to a public opinion poll that asked whether they think religious accommodation is still an important problem. Two-thirds of the 1,506 respondents polled said yes. When asked whether doing away with "unreasonable accommodations" would promote a more integrated society, seven in 10 agreed.

“We do want this debate to be about what unites us, not what divides us. What unites us. And I do think equality between men and women, between all citizens notwithstanding origin, religion, mother tongue — I do think these are important values if we want to build Quebec a united society,” Drainville said.

The Parti Québécois was expected to introduce a secular Charter this spring for issues like the public display of religious symbols by government workers. But Drainville said he needs more time. He said he planned to release a series of recommendations at the end of the summer in hopes of tabling a bill in the fall, creating what has been renamed the Charter of Quebec Values.

“It doesn't make me feel much more comfortable when we say ‘charter of values.’ Whose values? Don't we all share the same values?” argued Kathleen Weil, Opposition employment critic. The Liberal opposition is worried about the government’s plans, saying that several measures have already been taken to deal with religious and cultural differences.

They wonder whether any PQ religious accommodation law will end up dividing Quebecers, rather than bringing them together. “It has the potential to breed intolerance. It’s unsettling,” Weil said.

PQ to unveil secular 'Charter of Quebec Values' next fallBy RHÉAL SÉGUIN The Globe and Mail, May 22, 2013Minister Bernard Drainville says he hopes widening the scope of the secular charter – which was originally scheduled to be released next month – will help the PQ government seek a compromise with opposition parties on the contentious issue

The Parti Québécois government will unveil its controversial secular charter under the more "positive" title Charter of Quebec Values next fall, postponing what is expected to be heated debate on religious accommodations.

The Minister Responsible for Democratic Institutions, Bernard Drainville, said he hoped that widening the scope of the secular charter – which was originally scheduled to be released next month – will help the PQ minority government seek a compromise with opposition parties on the contentious issue. "It will not only provide clear rules and a framework on how to manage religious accommodations, it will also affirm a number of values to which a vast majority of Quebecers adhere such as the equality between men and women, the equality of citizens notwithstanding origins, religion or mother tongue," Mr. Drainville said. "I am confident we can have this debate in a respectful manner, in a serene manner."

Yet just last week Mr. Drainville was among those who sparked a debate on reasonable accommodations, this time involving Montreal's Hasidic Jews. The minister said he opposed a decision by the Montreal borough of Outremont to lift parking restrictions on streets near a synagogue during a Jewish holiday. Mr. Drainville argued against giving a religious community privileges that were denied other groups, even though such an accommodation in Outremont had been allowed for decades.

The incident convinced the Liberal opposition that, even under a different name, the secular charter will only serve to divide Quebeckers. Liberal Leader Philippe Couillard questioned the need to revisit the issue of religious accommodations and potentially fan the flames of intolerance. "If the aim explicitly or not is to divide Quebeckers again I am not in agreement at all," Mr. Couillard said. "This issue about lifting a parking ban was no accommodation at all. It was an agreement between communities at the local level."

During last year's election campaign, PQ Leader Pauline Marois promised a secular charter that would bar civil servants from wearing overt religious symbols. Yet while arguing the need to rid public institutions of religious symbols, the PQ said it would allow the crucifix in the Quebec National Assembly to remain in full public view over the Speaker's chair. The crucifix would remain in place as part of Quebec's heritage, the PQ insisted.

The contradictions in the PQ policy drew fire from all sides. And even changing the name of the secular charter did little to appease opposition concerns. "It doesn't make me feel more comfortable when we say a Charter of Quebec Values," said Kathleen Veil, Liberal opposition critic for employment and social economy. "Whose values? Don't we all share the same values in a free and democratic society? Don't we have a Charter of Rights?"

Mr. Drainville argued the need to adopt a Charter of Quebec Values by the end of the year in order to put an end to the debate over religious accommodations. He said that for too long the issue has remained unresolved, noting that it has been five years since the Bouchard-Taylor report on religious accommodations was tabled. The minister then produced a public opinion poll showing that two-third of Quebeckers view religious accommodations as an "important" or "very important" problem that should be settled soon.

The Coalition Avenir Quebec party accused the PQ of again backpedalling on a major issue, insisting that it should have been resolved years ago under the former Liberal government. "For years the Liberal government was irresponsible for refusing to regulate religious accommodations. The PQ promised a position this spring. It won't do it. ... It is another reversal by this government," said CAQ Leader François Legault, who has nonetheless left the door open to a possible compromise. "We will take a clear stand when we see the document," Mr. Legault said.

Quebecers polled on ‘problem’ of religious accommodations as PQ delays introduction of Charter of SecularismAlexandre Robillard, Canadian Press | 13/05/23http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/23/quebecers-polled-on-problem-of-religious-accommodations-as-pq-delays-introduction-of-charter-of-secularism/

The Parti Quebecois government, already involved in a political battle to toughen the province’s language law, has placed another emotionally charged identity issue on the back burner. The government has delayed its plan to set limits on religious accommodations until the fall and even begun referring to it in less contentious terms.

The PQ campaigned last year on a promise to introduce a Charter of Secularism, notably aimed at regulating Muslim headwear in public institutions. It is now referring to its plan as a “charter of Quebec values.” “The equality of men and women, that’s going to be one of the values, equality, extremely important, which we will affirm in this charter of Quebec values,” said Bernard Drainville, the cabinet minister responsible for crafting the policy.

The secularism plan was one of the main hot-button issues pressed in the last PQ campaign — another one being language. A language bill has already been watered down from what the PQ proposed in the election, and it will have to be diluted even further to have any hope of passing through the minority legislature. Bill 14 has no support from the main opposition party, the Liberals, while a smaller opposition party, the Coalition, is demanding a rewrite in exchange for its possible support.

Drainville says the secularism delay will allow the government to continue consulting Quebecers. “There are many people who have told me, ‘This is a debate that is very important for our society’,” Drainville said in Quebec City on Wednesday. He said there would be “groups of people, concerned people” who will help create the position.

In the meantime, the government is seeking to rally public opinion. It has commissioned a poll on public attitudes toward minority accommodations, leaked the poll to a newspaper, and posted it Wednesday on the government website. The poll asks respondents how much, on a scale of one to 10, the issue of religious accommodation is an “important problem.” The average respondent ranked the “problem” at 6.5 out of 10.[…]

Opposition parties are skeptical of the government’s intentions. Liberal Leader Philippe Couillard expressed fear of the divisions the initiative might create. “Do we want a society where we’re going to be looking under people’s shirts to see if they’re wearing a crucifix or a Star of David?” Couillard asked. “I don’t think Quebecers want a society like that.” He questioned whether the minority PQ government wasn’t engaging in an effort to prepare the ground for the next election campaign. “I wouldn’t be surprised if the PQ did this in the context of electoral preparation, desperately looking for themes to rally the population.”

Coalition party Leader Francois Legault, on the other hand, wondered whether some hidden snafu had caused the delay until fall. “Is there a fight in caucus that is preventing the tabling of legislation now?” he asked. “Why is the PQ backing off again?”

Rejean Pelletier, a political scientist at Universite Laval, suggested in an interview that there might be other factors behind the government holding off. He pointed to the outcry facing Diane De Courcy, the minister responsible for language laws, as she tries to harden that legislation. “Diane De Courcy has enough problems with her bill and this would add to that because it touches on the same clientele, especially the ethnic groups, who don’t completely accept the French language (law) and who do not accept the charter on secularism,” he said.

Pelletier said the PQ is likely using the effort to weaken the CAQ and force it to take positions in front of the francophone electorate, where it currently splits support. Premier Pauline Marois promised last February the government would consult on the minority-accommodations issue. On Wednesday, Drainville said the government’s proposal will address Quebec values such as equality before the law regardless of language, origin or religion.

The PQ has already said the ban on religious symbols would not extend to employees who wear a crucifix necklace. It would not extend either to the crucifix hanging in the legislature, which Marois has said is part of Quebec’s heritage. The cross first found its way onto the legislative chamber’s wall in 1936 under the government of Maurice Duplessis.

The proposed ban on religious symbols could extend, however, to some non-religious aspects of Quebec’s history as selected by the PQ. Artistic references to the monarchy, for example, could also disappear from the legislature.

The debate on so-called reasonable accommodation has been festering in Quebec since 2007. That year, the now-defunct Action democratique du Quebec made spectacular, if short-lived, political gains as it played to fears that Quebec’s identity was being threatened by multiculturalism.

At the time, some tabloid media carried frequent reports about affronts to Quebec’s culture _ such as the case of a sugar shack that served pea soup without pork in order to please a group of Muslim visitors.

In that election, under the resolutely cosmopolitan Andre Boisclair, the PQ shied away from such issues and suffered its worst defeat in decades. The party has since sought to reappropriate its mantle, under Marois, as a staunch defender of Quebec culture.

This forced secularism is ridiculous. Everyone should be allowed to express their religious beliefs freely. What's next, are people with names like Daniel, David and Joseph going to have to change their names because their names have "Biblical connections"? This makes me so angry.

Uh oh! Now that Pauline doesn’t need to bang her pots and pans in the street anymore, the “blue squares” feel that she’s deceived them…

http://ygreck.typepad.com/ygreck/2013/05/carr%C3%A9s-bleus.html

“We will not give in to blackmail and bullying!” (hiding a speech by J. Charest)

“Hey, it seems like pot-banging doesn’t work anymore!?”“Seems that we need pots and pans from the CSN labour union!”“Subsidized private daycares” (i.e. the PQ is threatening daycare workers with huge fines if they dare to go on strike this year, unlike the kid glove treatment that they gave to the whiny students who wanted free everything last year).

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Opinion: In Quebec, resistance to English is sometimes taken to extremesBY ROBERT N. WILKINS, SPECIAL TO THE GAZETTE MAY 22, 2013http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Opinion+language+conflict+ordinary+Quebecers+problem/8421051/story.html

MONTREAL — I’ve never personally known francophone Quebecers to be nasty, at least not as a collectivity.

Born in the province a little over 66 years ago, I have lived through some of the highs and lows of Quebec nationalism. At the time of the first election of the Parti Québécois in 1976 and subsequent referendum in 1980, I resided in the old St. Jacques ward — a part of the city where English was infrequently heard. Despite the heated political times, I rarely, if ever, experienced or witnessed any unpleasantness. Quebecers have always been by nature an accommodating and easygoing people.

The problem has never really been with ordinary citizens but rather with the governments we elect. Political parties of all stripes are seemingly fixated on the acquisition of more political power for the province (and themselves!) at the expense of the federal authority.

It is, however, now apparent that many dyed-in-the-wool “indépendantistes” who have dedicated virtually all their adult lives to that elusive goal will not live to see their dream fulfilled. I remember Bernard Landry saying with the creation of the Parti Québécois in 1968 that Quebec would be an independent country by 1973! What a disappointment it must be for him, and many others, to see Quebec so late in their lives still a province of Canada.

The festering frustration is being projected onto the language issue, and fuelling new rancour as English keeps gaining recognition as the “lingua franca” of much of the planet. I don’t think there is any fundamental problem in Quebec with the notion of a bridge language; it’s just that the current lingua franca happens to be English rather than French. So there is push-back, and sometimes it goes too far. I am reminded of French-only information signage that I once saw at an archeological dig in Lower Town, Quebec City, explaining that “an English translation is available at the Tourist Office in Upper Town.”

Having returned recently from a month-long holiday in Italy, most of which was spent in Sicily, I can assert unequivocally that resistance to reasonable use of English in public spaces is not the case in the land of Dante.

Virtually all museums and archeological sites display bilingual (Italian and English) signage. Many other panels are multilingual, written also in French, German and Spanish. Even simple bus tickets are frequently bilingual, something we haven’t seen here in Montreal in ages.

Most people in that beautiful country, particularly the young, strive to communicate in English and smile bashfully when complimented. They instinctively know that the procurement of a working knowledge of the language of Shakespeare opens so many additional doors to them. English and other languages are taught in schools from the earliest grades.

Today, despite the wishes of some of their more narrow-minded elders, most young French-speaking Quebecers also want to learn English, and many want to learn other languages as well. They don’t feel that their French-speaking essence is threatened in a pursuit from which only good can come. But for the moment it seems that we are all going to have to live with some nastiness being generated by a bitter and disappointed generation, a sour and (I hope and expect) rapidly fading political breed.

"Today, despite the wishes of some of their more narrow-minded elders, most young French-speaking Quebecers also want to learn English, and many want to learn other languages as well. They don’t feel that their French-speaking essence is threatened in a pursuit from which only good can come."

He is underestimating the power of indoctrination though. Many young Quebeckers, even those who learn other languages, end up with a strong patriotic sentiment, which for some may wane over time with life experience dampening the "idealism", while for some others addicted to self-exaltation it persists forever.

Nationalist ideology can be very enticing for youngsters, for it inculcates pride, elevates the ego, and creates a sense of belonging which is crucial in the increasingly atomized world. This strengths however go side by side with major weakness: coarsening of the society, removing one's distance to oneself, and creating individuals who are very sensitive to criticism and easily "insult-able".

"One of the strengths of nationalism is the contribution it can make to self-respect. But the strengths and the weaknesses are closely interwoven. Slights to self-respect are often the first step in the spiral of conflict." - Jonathan Glover

Not insulting Quebec nationalists would require a lot of self-censorship, which is very hard to pull off. No self-censorship would lead to nationalists throwing hissy fits. Avoidance of Quebec nationalists unfortunately leads to hissy fits anyways, for alleged slights in ignoring the "hosts".

As you can see, there is no easy way out of this. It seems that we'll have to live with your hissy fits (since we will either avoid you or tell you what we really think about you) as you will have to live with our "slights" and "insults".

Ouch! Seems the PQ is scraping the bottom of the barrel. How low can they go? During their last PowWow they set their sights on merging Quebec Solidaire and Option Nationale into the PQ fold (a page taken from the Conservative "Unite The Right" play book) but neither party took the bait. They also blamed their historically low polling numbers on the fact they were in a minority government situation and thus could not goverern the way "Quebecers" wanted which I find hysterically funny. The PQ is doing such a bad job in power, I doubt they will ever form a Majority government. They are their own worst enemy and I'm pretty sure the knives are being sharpened as we speak and a push to get Duceppe in is in the works.

And if I remember correctly, wasn't good old Duceppe caught being unethical also when in office and paying some other separatist a salary that he was not supposed to? Can't remember all the details, but I know after he left office, they closed the loophole the little sneak had used to have one of his friends paid by Canadian taxpayers and working for the Bloc. None of these separatists have any idea of what the word "ethics" means - clearly pointed out by the Charbonneu Commission upon interviewing these idiots.

"wasn't good old Duceppe caught being unethical also when in office..."

no he wasn't. cleared by his political enemies. my guess is he didn't do anything wrong. desmarais brought him down with a defamatory la presse front page on the day he was going to take over the pq. this happened just a few months after a poll gave duceppe a nice majority if he headed the separatists. that's all there is.

FROM ED The latest CROP poll tells us nothing new. Liberals leading at 31%, PQ 20, CAQ 19. We know the soidaire will bank their 9 with the PQ which puts separatism only 2 below the Libs. The loose canon is Legault. We're not out of the woods yet. Being Quebec it is possible the PQ could get reelectd in spite of the lousy job they're doing. God help us if they do. Ed

FROM EDThanks Cutie it gives a safety valve of 4 depending now on Francois Legault. It would be nice if he would tell us where he stands. Of course he is in the same position as Couillard but at least we know Couillard is federalist. It's an uneasy situation.Ed

FROM EDCouillard stand as a Federalist. He has no choice now but to stay there. Legault doesn't know which way to go that will get him the most votes. If he comes out for federalism, he will lose the separatists and if he declares separatism he will lose Complicated et. al. So he's walking the fine line that Jean Charest had to walk for years. We probably won't know until an election comes along and he will see which way the wind is blowing. Ed

They are trying the same stunt that they did last year whereby the federal banks, the railroads, the post offices, etc. located in quebec are supposed to speak in French only. They talked about it just before the election whereby they wanted Bill 101 enacted in Federal Government Buildings in Hull. I hope to hell Steven Harper yells it out loud that there is no way on God's earth they will be pushed around by the quebec government no matter who is in power. It's time it was spelled out for them in no uncertain terms. They are proposing to "regulate" operations in Federal jurisdictions. When it is not accepted, they will yell foul and try to get the population up in arms to boost their support and then to call a referendum. Would it ever be funny if this time the whole idea falls on deaf ears and everyone loses interest. They are losing support daily and the last two days have proven how desperate they are to get the referendum on the priority list again.

FROM EDI'd like to share a letter found when we were going through personal effects after my Father's death. Ed "Mr Cliff Brown Dear Sir Do you remember one night you helped a girl with some wood on a sled. If so it's me. I asked a lot of people to help me pull the sled but they just laughed and kept on going. I asked in French but they didn't seem to understand. I was crying when you asked what was the matter. You helped me get the wood over the road and I'll never forget when I went home with the groceries. My mum said I know you didn't steal them but where did you get them from. I told her and when the lady from the welfare came I think she then believed me. She said she knew you well. My father was dead a year and when I said my little brother was sick I wished you could see him I knew you could help him. the lady who came sent him and my mother to hospital My little sister and I were sent to a lady's house. they got well and Mum tried to work . she was not very strong, but we lived. we had a very poor and cold room so a few years later he took pneumonia and died. my sister was always sick Mum gave her what she could and in depression years she died. My Mum got tuberculosis and lived up to two years ago. I tried to look after her all along. I got the same from her. I didn't have a big education and had to do factory work to live to pay my bills. I have had a lot of bad luck but now my time is near up. I tried to do all I could to take care of my Mums wishes, it's been very hard. the doctor tells me I may live 6 months and I'll be very happy for I do not have a relative in the world, and when my Mum got TB our friends just stopped. the Welfare lady, God bless her helped us a lot but with their money they can't do everything. Only for you and the welfare lady to call, we would have had a lot more trouble Mr Brown I hope you keep well and I know from the way you help people you must be very happy. I sure hope so. I tried to find you on the phone in the CNR I know you worked on William St. but she said you had moved so I'm sending a small gift of remembrance for your kind act. and I feel through the grace of God you will be well rewarded. I'm sending this to the CNR I was told they could find you where my health is so bad now I can't. I hope it won't be too much botherIt was hard to find out who you were If you remember I asked your name and you did not tell me. The welfare lady told me. May God bless you forever. MayMy Father was in"Auditor of Passenger Accounts' dept. He never told us about this, even though he preached charity to me often enough. the CNR got the letter to my Father and an envelope with money inside. We opened the envelope, there was a ten, a five and a two all with King George VI picture. he never even opened it. The thought of accepting thanks for what we are supposed to do did not sit well with him. Ed

it's strange you come again with this out of context quote. you had been corrected before, mate. why do you do this? why do you keep risking your reputation as a serious huffington post contributor by spreading crap over the internet? what's your agenda?!?

We called you on your shit more times than we can count, but furthermore, we want to see you (and the other troglodytes coming here to smear separatist a-juice all over this blog), to actually create dialogue over the Editor's posts.

Why, Student, have you NEVER made any commentary on the Editor's work?

Same goes for the others.

What do you say gang? Do we ostracize these guys until their first comments (at the very least) for each new post the Editor publishes has something to do with the content?

C'mon Student - The Editor himself called you out on your horsehit:

Oooh, in Quebec we are more concerned with the environment!....Oooh, in Quebec we have chosen a more socially responsible path!Oooh, in Quebec we believe in rehabilitation, not punishment of criminals!Oooh, in Quebec we willingly pay more taxes to pay for social programs!Oooh, in Quebec we have a distinctly more vibrant culture!Oooh, in Quebec we are an open and welcoming society!

Why are you trolling the regular readers when you have those REAL FACTS to contend with?

Oh yeah, forgot - your shit is 100% based on fictional hokum.

You want to get answer from us?

Respond to the points from the Editor that I just added and then, maybe we'll acknowledge what you've got.

So for you to puff your chest up trying to protect Quebec's mainstream "works" pretty much follows along the same lines as that old saying that winning an argument on the Internet is like winning the special Olympics - you're still a retard.

That's why we're laughing at you.

You're coming to us from a populist angle, when we're not populists...not even on the Federalist front.

Mainstream Québécois is pathetic and lame. Same for Canada and the U.S.

Now and again, you get a few exceptions to the rule, but rarely.

You're mainstream-minded S.R.

You don't have an ounce of individuality in you.

And that's why you need to "elevate" yourself using the accomplishments of those who are excelling in the mainstream.

FROM ED Resident to the troll, "What do you say gang? Do we ostracize these guys until their first comments (at the very least) for each new post the Editor publishes has something to do with the content?Oh yeah, forgot - your shit is 100% based on fictional hokum.You want to get answer from us?"Resident, he's not asking us for an answer, he's asking you. Why involve the rest of us in stupidity with the trolls. Nearly all of us on this blog have learned to ignore them. Whenever you or une gars shows up you encourage their nonsense. "What do you say gang? Do we ostracize these guys until their first comments (at the very least) for each new post the Editor publishes has something to do with the content?" We don't need the trolls to waste our time, we prefer the company of adults. Please keep them to yourself. Ed

Yet given that the best that Gloryhole could offer in his last post was this "Alors,ouvrez une boutique pour sado-masos avec peggy car je ne vois pas d'autres solutions pour vous,à moyen ou a long terme :)"

I'll stick more closely to your shit.

Still, though, I would love to see these losers write actual commentary on Editor's content. Would really heat things up around here.

I'm glad to hear that, Resident Evil. The comments pages are filled with so much back and forth with these troublemakers and it's making the pages take a quite long time to load. I have a limit to the amount of internet my household can use monthly and I believe all these smart remarks are using up quite a bit of that. I we could cut that in half by ignoring them ourselves it would make quite a difference.

FROM EDSpoken like a little child Evil. If we don't get down on the floor and play with you, you throw insults. This blog is about adult politics mainly. Brats do make people grouchy. Why would you want to see them comment on Editors posts. You known it's going to be stupid time and space wasting bull shit. Have you taken the trouble to read what others have said about Editors post. Why not comment on that.