DNAinVEGAS wrote:It is not. It may be for you, but not the masses. How long have you been going? I've been on the Playa for over 10 years. I've seen a lot.

Question: If you go on "your" own, how do you "not" be a spectator? How do you get involved? What do you do out there? What is the name of your camp? Do you help work the greeter Station?

My point is that if you come to Burning Man the first year not knowing what to do to get involved, you'll wish you had once you arrive. If you go to the event "only" to spectate, well, nuff said.

Don't pull 10 years out of your hat and expect me to be impressed. It may just mean that you've become stale. Or it may mean that your still refining your idea. The issue is how does one get involved isn't it?

What makes you think you can speak for "the masses" anyway? FWIW this will be my 4th year, BFD. I've been in theme camps, ran a bar and done an installation. However my first year it was just me and a friend and it was magical and I was involved on my own terms.

The notion that the ONLY way to get involved is through a theme camp is depressing and a disavowal of personal responsibility (one of the burnier teneants, n'est-ceque pas?). There's plenty of ways to get invovled. You can get a re-cycle cycle and bring in cans for recycling. You can cook for your neighbors. You can volunteer with a large installation. I saw a guy giving Dr. Suess readings, and saw much delighful art that wasn't monumental. It was small and personal and thouroughly charming. The ways an individual can get involved without being part of a theme camp are as wide and broad as the playa itself.

I wish you and your camp the best, even though I'm still very unclear on the concept.

First, this isn't a debate topic and I'm sure we're on the same page. I was using the "Joining a theme camp" as an easy way to get involved your first year if you don't know what else there is. Your right about all the other ways to get involved on the Playa, but if you don't know what there is, well....

And I wasn't trying to impress anyone with my experience at all. I'm just old school I guess. I remember WAY back at almost the beginning when BM was the Burning Man Project, and have stuck to the original concept of helping people get involved.

Thats when I started my style of Theme Camps. I create a "level" of challenges and give gifts based on the participation level. Most New Burners don't know what to do their first year and many may be embarrassed to get involved and/or don't know anyone to do it with and feel out of place. This was actually on a profession Video called "Flashback" in 1997. The experienced ones want to experience more extreme adventures at BM. I create something for them all as my gift. They can participate with a camp at "Their" own comfort level and we give away gifts to them.

Participation on all levels, something unique, and Gift giving. This is my gift to the Participants of Burning Man and always has been.

Take a deep breath and calm down a bit. My statements and philosophy is what BM used to be all about "Way" back then, but has changed a lot since '97. The basics are the same though....Get involved in whatever manner "Your" comfortable with.

Dr. DNA, this is yet ANOTHER stroke of sheer genious! I mean I thought the Vortex Casino was good, so good I'd thought of it MYSELF but never followed thru... Now you add "Halloween" elements, thrills and chills anyway, and I am just so humbled! Always wanted to lead blind folded and bare footed participants thru a "haunted maze" that relied more on senses like hearing, touch, and smell (think insense not FEET!) The best I could ever bring to BMan is A RAT RACE MAZE. So I am truly humbled. Tried to attend "Dealers School" last year and went by Vortex nightly for the first few days, but never found a SOUL around... Well, this could be THE year. ~POL

Thank you for the comments. Sorry about last year but we had major problems with the building and didn't get operational until later in the week. The wind knocked us down twice before we opened. This won't happen this year though, I promise!

Please come by and check us out. Better yet, if you don't have a home, concider us. We have some of the most creative people around in the camp. Aside from the creative minds, we have professional makeup people, special FX professionals, etc. in our camp this year and we promise to scare the crap out of people in the most disturbing adult way.

Carn'Evil is NOT for the meek or weak of heart. It's going to take every ounce of energy a person has to make it through, IF they qualify to enter from playing Vortex Casino games. LOL

I applied, I hope there's still room! I'm a goth/alternative model that has been into the "gothic scene" in NYC for a very long time, and now in Philly. I've got the outfits! Teehee
So, let the east coaster in pretty please? I know how to have a good time too I swear!!
I went last year for the first time-and was out on the playa day and night taking it all in. This year I want to be a part of it and this sounds like my idea of a good time. *fingers crossed*

I PM you a few months back about helping out at your Casino as a non-camp member. In the casino as a dealer or any other way that you can use me. You told me to show up on Monday if I was interested and you would be doing dealer and other training then.

Well I've decided I really want to participate in your camp, I'm hoping it will be one of my highlights of the year. So my question now is do you know when you will be running dealer training and other such training on Monday? I would hate to show up at the end of training time.

DNA, I've seen your camp on the playa for years, but I've never ventured in. I'm going to make it a point this year. I camp with a large group and we have our own thing going each year, but I'd be interested in helping out. Would you take workers who aren't camping with you? I've forwarded your website to a couple of other members of our camp who both have casino dealing experience.

Come join us for an evening of unforgettable games and experiences, and some cool gifts in our Pawn Shop. Try your luck in the Casino, or Venture into the most terrifying experience you'll even encounter if you qualify.

We also have a few openings left in camp for the right people.

If you want to be a part of an extremely fun and interactive camp with a unique interactive experience, let me know.

Wish I could say-- I saw it tuesday or wednesday night, but there was a sign up-- "No Men Allowed". I don't know what that was all about.

It seemed interesting from the all the hype-ing of it here, I like putting on interactive experiences and thought I could learn something from it. Maybe it was just some sort of big come-on to get women naked in front of a two way mirror, like Pinky's a couple of years ago?

No, but you basically had to have sex in on the ground in front of them to get into the "Carn'Evil", except that when you completed everything you were told that it wasn't open yet, you had to put your name on a list, and come back later. When you came back later, it still wasn't opened. When you came back even later, the whole works was shut down. I filled my card out easily and had fun...

A female friend of ours performed oral, anal and vaginal sex with her companion, in front of a bunch of men and a handful of (appreciative) couples, trying to get in. While she appeared to enjoy the acts initially, she -still- couldn't get into the back although her mate got on the list as easily as I did. After awhile she said she wasn't going to sacrifice her Burn so that a theme camp could gawk at and grope her. (Having to crawl under the craps table and grope somebody's balls, after doing the above, was the last straw.)

Later that night we were talking about it at the Playa-Go-Round and an eavesdropper claimed to have snipped the zipties and slipped into the Carn'Evil, stating that there was nothing at all back there but a maze of tarps...no decorations or anything except a zombie mask he claimed to have stolen. (Which we told him was way uncool.)

None of the members of my camp who completed the tasks returned to participate in the back because it was never open. At one point we went by to see if it was open and all we heard were a bunch of people in the darkened tents yelling at each other, clearly audible on the esplanade.

I don't fault them for controlling the amount of single men, though. At one point some guy in street clothes was walking around with a card showing a woman performing a DP, and he asked my partner and the other girls in our camp to help him complete the tasks even after they'd already politely declined.

Had fun, personally, and my partner did for awhile too. We'd have gone back, but she, like our other female friend, said she preferred to spend her Burn at Burning Man, not in a tent.

Seemed like a fabulous idea, though. Better luck next year.

-zb

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

I was the first to make it through the back. It was a bit intense and rather invasive, but I was glad I went through. DNA worked very hard on this project. My only complaint was the waiting to go through the back. Both my partner and I enjoyed the experience.

That's cool. Thanks for that. I will be happy to report back to our friends who completed the tasks to get in back, but were never able to anyway, that it wasn't a sham and that Burners did, in fact, enjoy it.

BTW, most of the people who were running the Vortex seemed very cool, if a little disorganized. The impression I get is that a few people worked extremely hard, but not necessarily together.

For example, one of the girls we went with stayed there until she filled out her entire card; two red dots, ten black dots, whatever....'cause she was told she had to do that. At the same time, my partner was told by somebody different that she only had to complete both red points. At the same time, IN THE SAME ROOM, I was told one red point, two black points.

The asian-looking woman running the couples wheel, by the way, was a great sport and a total hottie.

If we see the Vortex return, we will participate. If we are not running our own theme camp, we will volunteer to help them. We would very much like to see the Vortex succeed.

-c

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

We went by on Monday or Tuesday and talked with DNA. He was very nice and took the time to hang out for a bit and talk when it was clear that he had lots of work to do. We were really looking forward to seeing what it looked like when finished. It sounded like our type of place. We even kept aside a couple bottles of good red wine to share with other participants.

But .. as playa luck would have it, the only night we saw it open was a night that we weren't necessarily in play mode. I'm glad others enjoyed it.

I like the concept but never saw the execution. I hope we see it out there again next year.

My thoughts on it was as a concept it was nice, and would have been interesting, but it didn't follow (as far as I could see) what it promised. Now... had it been up and running when I went by, then I might be otherwise inclined, but my thought was it was awfully quiet.

Like, closed and not running quiet.

That was sad as it coulda been something. Problem is, we get our expectations going. Silly us!! >>giggles<<