two_heads_talking wrote:So, whatever happened to the oldest son taking care of his parents? Has that tradition stopped in Japan? If so, that is a complete and utter shame.

You've got to be kidding me. There is no reason for children to be burdened by their parents, and there is no reason for parents to be burdened by their children after they reach adulthood. It's that very same annoying as hell dependency that keeps them from making friends outside their family. I hate those family is important traditions. Maybe I could accept it if you actually chose your family, but they're randomly assigned so why do people care so much? You shouldn't have to deal with a failure of a human just because he/she is a relative.

In the end, it's friends that you can best relate with. If you can be friends with your family, then that's awesome. People who share hobbies and interests are more likely to understand each other. The number of friends can even be suited to you. There no need to have too many or too few. I'll never consider family more important than friends regardless of how much popular culture claims the opposite is true.

Dehitay wrote:
There is no reason for children to be burdened by their parents, and there is no reason for parents to be burdened by their children after they reach adulthood.

It's that very same annoying as hell dependency that keeps them from making friends outside their family. I hate those family is important traditions. Maybe I could accept it if you actually chose your family, but they're randomly assigned so why do people care so much? You shouldn't have to deal with a failure of a human just because he/she is a relative.

In the end, it's friends that you can best relate with. If you can be friends with your family, then that's awesome. People who share hobbies and interests are more likely to understand each other. The number of friends can even be suited to you. There no need to have too many or too few. I'll never consider family more important than friends regardless of how much popular culture claims the opposite is true.

Dehitay wrote:In the end, it's friends that you can best relate with. If you can be friends with your family, then that's awesome. People who share hobbies and interests are more likely to understand each other. The number of friends can even be suited to you. There no need to have too many or too few. I'll never consider family more important than friends regardless of how much popular culture claims the opposite is true.

So, when you were 2 years old, pooping your diapers, what were your friends doing? Most likely not cleaning up after you, like your parents were.

The idea isn't that you have to get along with your family better than everyone else; it's simply a trade-off: your parents support your for the first 20 or so years of your life, because you are unable to work and fend for yourself. In return, you support your parents for the last 20 years of their lives, because they can't work and fend for themselves. It doesn't mean you have to hang out with them, it just means you use the money you're getting from your high-paying job to make sure they have enough food, can pay the rent each month, and can turn on the heater during the winter.

How would you feel if you sacrificed hundreds of thousands of dollars to raise your children, then when you needed something from them (because your own parents are no longer around), they refused to help you because you have different interests and aren't as interesting as their friends?

At least that's the theory behind it. Having children has often been seen as an investment: you waste a bunch of time raising them so someone will be there to make your passing easier

two_heads_talking wrote:So, whatever happened to the oldest son taking care of his parents? Has that tradition stopped in Japan? If so, that is a complete and utter shame.

You've got to be kidding me. There is no reason for children to be burdened by their parents, and there is no reason for parents to be burdened by their children after they reach adulthood. It's that very same annoying as hell dependency that keeps them from making friends outside their family. I hate those family is important traditions. Maybe I could accept it if you actually chose your family, but they're randomly assigned so why do people care so much? You shouldn't have to deal with a failure of a human just because he/she is a relative.

In the end, it's friends that you can best relate with. If you can be friends with your family, then that's awesome. People who share hobbies and interests are more likely to understand each other. The number of friends can even be suited to you. There no need to have too many or too few. I'll never consider family more important than friends regardless of how much popular culture claims the opposite is true.

I completely disagree with everything you've posted here. Perhaps your family isn't so close, that you'd even think to take care of them. That's fine, no one will shove you into a corner to do that, but the spite and vitriol within your words speaks yards more than words themselves. I would feel pity for your lack of emotional connection, but I feel that pity would be no better than throwing pearls to swine..

I wouldn't consider taking care of my parents (and yes I am the first born in the family) as being a burden any less than I would consider taking care of my children as a burden. I didn't get to pick either of them, but nonetheless, they took care of me, and as such even a simple obligation to take care of them if they are needy. Now, I'm not talking about elderly that can take care of themselves and wish not to be fawned over, but for those that are in need, that can't look out for themselves, either physically or emotionally or whatever.

My parents right now aren't in need, yet my mother-in-law is.. While I can't move her across the US to take care of her, I send her money and help pay for medication and remind her oldest daughter that she needs looking after. My mother-in-law, recently moved into a retirement community and while she wasn't thrilled about it earlier, she loves the place now. She can take care of herself, but doesn't have the necessary funds to take care of all her needs. That's where I come in..

two_heads_talking wrote:So, whatever happened to the oldest son taking care of his parents? Has that tradition stopped in Japan? If so, that is a complete and utter shame.

You've got to be kidding me. There is no reason for children to be burdened by their parents, and there is no reason for parents to be burdened by their children after they reach adulthood. It's that very same annoying as hell dependency that keeps them from making friends outside their family. I hate those family is important traditions. Maybe I could accept it if you actually chose your family, but they're randomly assigned so why do people care so much? You shouldn't have to deal with a failure of a human just because he/she is a relative.

In the end, it's friends that you can best relate with. If you can be friends with your family, then that's awesome. People who share hobbies and interests are more likely to understand each other. The number of friends can even be suited to you. There no need to have too many or too few. I'll never consider family more important than friends regardless of how much popular culture claims the opposite is true.

Good man.

I'll refrain from going off on a major rant here. Just a little RL story.

edit- deleted ranting.

edit 2 - I think the edit counter doesn't account for edits over 9. I must have edited my rant at least 10 times before I ended up deleting it.

Last edited by Infidel on Tue 12.30.2008 12:49 am, edited 3 times in total.

Keat's talk about bonds of debt and Infidel's family history made me realize, maybe my personal experience have more to do with my views on the subject than I originally thought. The thing is I don't really hate either of my parents. Actually, there is very few members of my family that I truly resent.

As a child, I probly became smarter than mom around age 15, though I was constantly correct about things she would argue with me since age 10. Due to the parenting style at the time, a child correcting his/her parent was considered back talk and my mom refused to listen to me when I wanted to argue. This annoyed me to no end.

The other major factor was her utter dependence on me during my teen years. I can understand some chores like cleaning up my room, cleaning the bathroom, doing dishes, and any other situations that I was one of the reasons for the chore's existence; but my chores went far beyond that. I've had to wash her car, do her gardening, do the groute work for all the tiling she replaced carpeting with, install drywall, assemble equipment/furniture she bought, and so on. It's not really anything that goes beyond child labor, but it was completely obvious to me that if I was to suddenly disappear, she would be at a complete loss of how to function for quite a while. In additional to physical dependence, she also seemed to need me socially. She would punish me if I refused to go places with her when I wasn't needed. I would also be punished if I refused to talk to people at any get-together she would drag me to. To make matters worse, she absolutely refused to admit her dependence on me. If I ever brought it up, she would say I was the one who couldn't live on my own which was definitely possible for me as far as my independence went even if legal issues wouldn't quite allow it.

Obviously, at the age of 24, she can't avoid arguing with me, and she's well aware of how quickly I'll erase her from my life if she was to make excessive requests of me, so I don't really have such problems with her anymore.

However, even putting my personal situation aside, it just seems more logical to ignore family bonds. If you like your family, great. Associate with them all you want if they're good company. However, if they're a nuisance, I really don't think you should stress yourself out with them just because they're family. Like I've already said, the 'family is forever' rap that so many people are fond of will never work its way into my lifestyle.

The only reason I feel anyone would owe family anything is when a parent has a child. If you brought them into this world, then I feel it's your responsibilty to raise them to deal with it. Parents choose to have children, but children don't choose to have parents. I can understand the bond of debt from wanting to repay your parents, but I personally don't see it as a necessity since I didn't request my birth.

Actually, for a similar reason, I agree with Infidel's idea that abortion is actually quite a loving option itself. If a child never reaches sentience, he's garunteed to never know suffering. If he's born, he stands a chance of a life ranging from utter suffering to a euphoric thrill ride. If nobody actually wants the child, then his life will probly more closely resemble the former. Abortion is a 100% chance of peace. Birth is a variable percent chance of suffering/enjoyment. Your life can't suck if you don't have one.

Getting older （歳）..... to me, has always been a mere number. But it constantly reminds me being a maturing person, I face new responsibilities and will be expected to reflect a higher moral standing.

Whenever I read news about theft or stealing, I think of the importance of preparing myself financially for the future. Like many parents, my parents too, want their children to be useful and upright people leading fulfilling lives. I’m glad that we were taught to save for the rainy day when we were kids. And, we were always reminded of the importance of budgeting so as to prevent overspending.

During school holidays, my parents would bring us for vacation, not Tokyo Disneyland, not Las Vegas, not Athens, not Paris, not Italy, they were provinces in some countries where you could see many teens living from hand-to-mouth, not knowing where their next meal was coming from, sometimes not even having a place to stay, sometimes had to fight over a small bread. I realized people from poor countries usually had very strong family bonds. Elder brother would help his mother to take care of the younger siblings, and even know how to cook simple food to bring to their parents who were working hard outside.

Only when we see through how people are forced to live a life of poverty, we then know how more blessed we are than we realize. I understand this from young.

Such deep interpretation I’m just indifferent to these irrelevant thing
Some things seam a little bit just eh it doesn't matter in the big scheme of things, I don't have enough hands to use them most effectively by dealing with everything if this is part of everything. . so It doesn't remind me of anything.

This is a sad article. I can see how the elderly who was raised to have a deeper family bond,suddenly have those bonds over a couple decades disappear because of the state of economy and money making.

I myself have a very dependent mother, but when I was younger she worked her butt off for me so we had shelter and food or not to be in the street which was hard for her being single and having horrible parents herself, but she would have taken care of my parents in their later years if she could and tried before they passed away.

I was brought up KNOWING and UNDERSTANDING how your family can be there one moment and suddenly not. So for me seeing Elderly struggle because their families are not helping them is depressing. If these older people have certain problems that you HAVE to leave them be, then fine, but I think the more family there are willing to help the older generation the better for the people around.

Look at your country and ask yourself. Why is your country this way or that way. Is it because family values are better or worse.