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Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

Hello,

My first post and have only recently started watching/reading Attack on Titan. Maybe it's because I've recently read the mangas, but I have a more simpler approach than many of the theories here. I agree with some but deviate with others.

First, I think that the injection into Eren was a vaccine of some sort. I think it was something in which after being eaten by a titan, it activates his ability to transform into one. The injections occurred sometime after the wall falling. He would have received the injection before training. Eren has always been determined, hot headed and always reckless. All these qualities were in him since he was young. These are the same qualities, when controlled and activated by self inflicted injury, turns him into a titan. My point is, if the injection was a titan turning ability, he would have had so many chances during the 3 years of training camp to turn into one. It only became activated when he was eaten. If something as ubiquitous as reaching for a spoon can trigger transformation, the injection must be a vaccine of some sort. Hence, like alot of Zombie trended comics recently, this series seems to allude to a virus that turns humans into Titans.

I feel as though the information on Ymir (being titan but also the titan who spoke of her), R + B, and Hanji/Armin's similar hypothesis on the structure of the wall and Christa, may seem to diverge into different story threads but rather, tries to say the same thing. From the posts I've read on this site, I feel as though most users are saying similar things. The enemy or the secret is what happened 100 years ago and all these different plot hints seem to tackle the question but from different perspectives.

The arcs of all the teenagers seem to question the existence of humanity. Like alot of sci-fi or apocalyptic genres, Attack on Titan seems to centralise the question of 'What is it to be human'. It seems that all the titan changing teenagers have concrete views on humanity (all negative) and like other stories within the genre, this story is about finding a new positive quality or reasons why humanity must go on. I mention this point because the plot seems to be heading towards some sort of conspiracy theory which happened 100 years ago, something only the religious sect knows. I'm sure the sect has a prophecy (as most religions do) and the prophecy is imminent.

I wouldn't be surprised if the prophecy is some sort of Evangelion fourth impact sort of plan, where the conspirators have heard of the prophecy (something to do with the titans in the walls) and need to activate it. Attack on titan seems to have similarities with Evangelion, in terms of the evas being piloted but bio-mechanically, as it seems to with the case with the titans that Eren and co use. The existential questioning seems to be similar with that genre, though the protagonist of both stories differ considerably. But maybe consciously, the idea of family is the point which the creators stick to, unlike its abandonment in Evangelion.

The ape is the spanner in the works though. He's not familiar with the city, its technologies and assumes that its inhabitants should speak a certain language (as if he's heard it from someone else, who's been feeding him info). He seems to be not from within the city. Could their be 2 groups of conspirators, one in the city and a foreign force? I won't be surprised if all the titans rehabilitate and start fighting against the ape. Eren is someone who doesn't have special qualities. He isn't especially skilled but throughout the story, he has inspired people through his force of will. Whether it is his speeches and the changing of Jean, the interest of Annie when he learns something new, the Survey Corp finding respect for him etc, his main quality is his will. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the positive quality that revitalises the teenagers who are attacking the city.

Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

Originally Posted by icha7

I wouldn't be surprised if the prophecy is some sort of Evangelion fourth impact sort of plan, where the conspirators have heard of the prophecy (something to do with the titans in the walls) and need to activate it.

Maybe RBA were the ones trying to 'activate' something with their actions.
Have you read the Time Leap thread?

Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

I can see titanism as something that spreads much like a disease however I can't imagine it being something which can be transmited from normal/human titan to humans. If that was the case then there wouldn't be any surprises regarding people transforming into titans (which there have been) as members of the scouting legion would easily turn into them. Now, perhaps the beast titan can do this however at most I would think it'd be a special ability from as select few special titans.

As for the religion, we have to remember it is a new thing which appeared shortly after the colossal titan first attacked the outer wall. It is a new institution. I doubt they have something like a prophecy, they were purposely created for the sake of the wall. I doubt even they believe in the godhood of the wall so to speak. The church is not an actual church, it is a calculated move to keep people from the wall and under control.

The Titans were all normal humans, given the serum Erin's father administered. Transforming into a Titan triggers an unconscious urge, while sapping the will power. For most people, all sense of self is lost, turning them into a mindless killing machine. Individuals with a strong enough sense of self can overcome this, retain their individuality, and transform at will. Abnormals are people in between, strong enough not to entirely lose their will power, but not strong enough to control their new powers. The serum was administered by the forerunners of the church and monarchy. They then built the walls, using the threat of the Titans to seize absolute power, uniting humanity under their control. This would fit in with the theme of sacrificing freedom for security, that the walls represent.

I can't imagine the serum Erin's father administered was a vaccine. The context is all wrong. That scene came right after it was first revealed that Eren was a Titan. The scene only really makes sense as an explanation about how Eren gained his powers. His father also gave him the key to the basement at that time. It makes the most sense that his father turned him into a titan so that he would have the strength to find their old house, deep within Titan territory.

Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

Hmm...

Eren has always gone berserk. He's always been hot headed and has had the desire to kill all the titans. Before he gets eaten up and also that he says he won't die today, shows that he had always had determination.

The timeline can't be wrong at all. When did his father administer the injection? If it was right before he went into his first battle then I'm wrong but it was a flashback to him when he was younger and before joining the training camp. He turned into a titan just trying to pick up a spoon. From the training reports, everyone knows how determined Eren is. My point is that he had ample opportunity to turn into a titan if the serum was for him to turn into a titan. It only became activated when he was in the belly of the titan that ate him. Only after that could be transform. Everyone else died in that belly and he was the only one that transformed, hence he needed to be in that belly.

The scene coming after he turned into a titan, to me, only supports my theory. But also, shows that he is still inexperienced while someone like Annie can control her powers.

Ymir's second chance could be that she turned into a human. In the later chapters, R+B remember her being the one who ate their friend. Connie's parent spoke to him when lying upside down and the titan that ate a girl scout talked about how the girl was one of 'Ymir's people'. I believe that these titans are human but loose their minds. While loosing their minds, their human body disappears and hence when cut into the nape of a titan, nothing is there. It could be that their human self disappears, while the controlled titans still exist and control the titan from the nape of the neck.

The church consists of noble families and Historia was someone who was born and knows the secret. Even if the church was something that was recently created I think the secret is something that has lasted a long time. Also, I believe that Annie creating the crystals and it being similar to the wall, does strengthen a prophecy. Annie is in a coma, she is dorment and it seems as though that the titans in the wall are similar. My point is that they are dorment, awaiting for the wall to be broken. I'm starting to believe that the titans want to break the wall to try to awaken the people in the wall. Maybe the people trapped inthe wall are heroes or leaders from the other lands and needed to protect themselves like Annie did. So to contain them, they just decided to build a city around them, almost like a prison. So, maybe the church knows about all this and hence want to protect the wall. Maybe in that sense, it's like Prometheus and the people sleeping are somehow the real danger to humanity.

The real interesting about this manga from the beginning was its video game like setting. Like the walls need to be broken down one by one for the player to win. If the inner most wall is the wall you need to protect, you would build many other walls around it. It makes sense because all the different walls houses different classes of society and the most central one is for the highest class of people. But what if that wall was the one to be protected? The church people saying that the walls are sacred or god's creation etc maybe crazy but what if that is the truth in a way. We know that there are titans in the innermost wall. We know that people were shipped 100 years before and no one knows how the walls were made. I believe that the city is a prison of that wall which contains some important titans. What if the people in that wall were the first one's who could control titan power and a struggle 100 years ago made the leaders turn into crystals to save their own lives. And hence they need to protect that wall so the leaders never see daylight again.

Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

my theory is that all the intelligent titans are or the offspring of the original expedition force. they went out to fight mindless titans, but discovered a way to turn into titans in the process.
(but need time to gain back their own will from the bereserk state)

after they gain back their intellect, they realize they hold a grudge towards the people in the city because they sent them to their deaths.

Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

They do look different. When the Titan inside the Wall was shown first, I thought the minor differences were because of a shift in Isayama's style (ch34 came ~2 years later than those initial chapters), also by looking how differently the later Armored Titan looks compared to the one in the beginning.

But then Colossal's design remained pretty much consistent up to the recent chapters.

It's interesting how only a slice of the Wall Titan's face is shown, so we can notice some minor differences in facial features but are left wondering about it's overall look.

Most noticeably, the 'skin' for the Wall Titan looks bark-y or slightly rough stone, in contrast to Berth's exposed muscle-tissues. Of course there's the possibility the Wall Titan looks like that just because of the stone-transformation used to create the walls in the first place...

Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

I always thought that Colossal Titan was skinless cuz he's like "unfinished", infact the last time Bert transform into it cuz of walls he never develop his lowerbody/legs and feet. Something similar happened when Eren tried to transform to protect from the cannon shot and he develop only a skinless near meatless titan body.

Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

Originally Posted by iloveonepiece

my theory is that all the intelligent titans are or the offspring of the original expedition force. they went out to fight mindless titans, but discovered a way to turn into titans in the process.
(but need time to gain back their own will from the bereserk state)

after they gain back their intellect, they realize they hold a grudge towards the people in the city because they sent them to their deaths.

Are you talking about the expedition where armin's parents died? There is an issue with your theory.... the intelligent titans precede the expedition force at large. The expedition force was sent to recover the land lost due to reyner and berholt.

Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

Now that they know there are humans in Titans I wonder if they will have second thoughts in killing them. Well, I know they have a kill first before they kill you mentality...but still...at first the humans were killing mindless creatures, they killed in cold blood without any regrets...now they know they might be killing a human as well, maybe even someone they know. It's just interesting to see that no character has arrived at the point of thinking yet.

Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

Originally Posted by Georgie

Now that they know there are humans in Titans I wonder if they will have second thoughts in killing them.

Well, 'they' don't really know about Titans being human yet.

That's an information being largely conveyed to us, the readers, but I don't think anyone in the Scouting Legion is fully aware of that still. I mean, Conny was kind of shocked about what he witnessed, but I don't think he realized/accepted the implications of all of that.

Ymir, Reiner and Berth seem to be aware of what's up with this, but they never talked about it openly, they just stopped at half sentences and suggesting bits of hints.

Regardless, we can safely assume there is at least some people inside the walls who know this kind of things, but it doesn't really seem they care that much if Titans are Humans or not. They certainly don't want any kind of information to spread among the commoners.

But that's an interesting point nevertheless. Once the true nature of Titans is being revealed at large, that is bound to spawn quite a lot of issues. I'm pretty sure this won't mean people would opt to try and not harm Titans, for they are a very true threat to humanity's very survival. But still I can see some moral arguments being thrown around, especially if some way to revert Titans to their human selves is made available.

Re: Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

They'll kill them without a doubt. They were ready to kill Eren. And many persons are dead because of them (families, lovers etc.). With Eren who is now an human weapon and the revelation about Annie, Reiner and Bertolt. They'll be more cautious now and the hidden titan-shifters will suffer a lot if their identities are known.Before that they'll probably try to question them but I wouldn't be surprised if some humans kill them without questioning because of their hate.

If we assume that it is the same titan, according to the previously mentioned coincidences, it appears that the titan has shrunk from 6m-class (as mentioned by Ilse in her sidestory) to 4m-class (mentioned by Hanji). And during that time we know that, again, if my assumption is correct, Sonny devoured at least one human (Ilse) . Could it be the hint to the Titan's lifecycle, and reason they try to eat people?
If all my assumptions are correct, it looks like by eating humans titans reduce in size over time, and get closer to Human-like form.