Blitzkrieg's remaster of A Time of Changes presented on A Time of Changes - Phase 1 compilation is 100x times better then original. Saxon's newest remasters are also very interesting. Remastered version of Breakout (Demon) is probably the worst remaster i've heard so far.

I've had a downloaded copy for some years. The crappy production you referred to is what made me go for the remastered version.

Do you have any opinion on the Artillery remasters?

I've got the Artillery boxset, haven't compared to originals but they pretty good, no ridiculous crackling hissy stuff anyway. By Inheritance is brilliant. The last two albums are actually worse in that regard, VERY loud.

_________________Tonight, will you sail awayWith open arms and eyes ablaze?

Haven't gotten any of the Deluxe Edition Sabbath, much less heard them. But, the 1996 Castle remasters "From the Original Master Tapes" are the best sounding over the common Warner versions or the horribly inferior, cheaply priced NEMS records CD's which should ALL be burned so that new fans aren't buying them, AVOID THESE!!

Does anyone have any other thoughts on the Black Sabbath Castle remasters vs the Sanctuary/Universal remasters?

Looks like the new ones have much more to offer in terms of packaging and bonus material (on the deluxe albums), but I'm interested if anyone has compared the sound quality.

I currently have the original WB and/or Creative Sound versions of the first six albums. The Creative Sound versions are a bare-bones as you can get, and to me the sound is thin. I have hear that the Sanctuary/Universal re-issues actually use the same masterings as the Castle versions, but are a bit louder. I'm not sure if this is true.

_________________FYI: 89% of all statistics are made up on the spot - including this one - which proves my point.

Does anyone have any other thoughts on the Black Sabbath Castle remasters vs the Sanctuary/Universal remasters?

Looks like the new ones have much more to offer in terms of packaging and bonus material (on the deluxe albums), but I'm interested if anyone has compared the sound quality.

I currently have the original WB and/or Creative Sound versions of the first six albums. The Creative Sound versions are a bare-bones as you can get, and to me the sound is thin. I have hear that the Sanctuary/Universal re-issues actually use the same masterings as the Castle versions, but are a bit louder. I'm not sure if this is true.

I've put off expanding my Black Sabbath collection simply because there are so many different versions around and i want to know which sound good or not. Too much choice is sometimes a bad bad thing.

I've put off expanding my Black Sabbath collection simply because there are so many different versions around and i want to know which sound good or not. Too much choice is sometimes a bad bad thing.

I feel the same way. There have been multiple boxed sets (Black Box, Ozzy Years, etc and CD vinyl replicas, digipaks, etc. I've narrowed it down to either the '96 Castle remasters, or the new ones from Sanctuary. My main reason is that the debut has the songs individually indexed. Having multiple songs on the same track was always annoying to me, especially if I wanted to go strait to N.I.B. The other reason is that the debut on both versions includes Evil Woman and Wicked World, one of which is typically missing in many re-releases. The Castle remasters are cheaper now, which is a big plus considering I'm basically hoping to get all of the Ozzy and Dio material, and maybe the rest of them down the road. However, the Sanctuary versions have amazing packaging. Several of the Sanctuary one are "Deluxe" releases that have a second disc full of bonus material. Paranoid actually has two bonus discs. Unfortunately, Vol4, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage have no extra tracks. The bad thing is that they have not been releases in the US, so I have to buy imports. Amazon has decent prices, but after a dozen or so CD's, it's going to add up.

However, the most important thing to me is sound. I have heard that the Sanctuary versions are the best, but again I have also heard that they are (or maybe based off) the 1996 remasters. Anyone who has some input here would be greatly appreciated.

_________________FYI: 89% of all statistics are made up on the spot - including this one - which proves my point.

Has anyone listened to the remaster of Slayer's Show No Mercy - I saw it in the shop the other day. I've never owned a Slayer album, but I'm sometimes tempted to get a few - does anyone know if it's any good/better?

Nevermore - Enemies of RealityThe Andy Sneap remixed/remastered version that came out in 2005 is far better than the original muddy mix.

Katatonia - Brave Murder DayThe 2006 reissue that Peaceville put out. The album was originally released without being mastered at all, and the 2006 version finally fixed this so now the recording sounds fuller and has more power to it.

Type O Negative - Slow, Deep and HardThe remastered 2009 reissue by Roadrunner, which sounds louder and more clear than the original edition.

Haven't gotten any of the Deluxe Edition Sabbath, much less heard them. But, the 1996 Castle remasters "From the Original Master Tapes" are the best sounding over the common Warner versions or the horribly inferior, cheaply priced NEMS records CD's which should ALL be burned so that new fans aren't buying them, AVOID THESE!!

I agree, I have all the Castle remasters of the Black Sabbath albums and I find them to be the best CD versions overall. Even the new Deluxe Editions, while they sound pretty good, just sound louder and don't sound quite as good as the Castle versions. Still, the Deluxe editions have some great bonus material that the Castle editions don't have, so they're both worth getting for anyone who loves Sabbath.

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 10:57 pmPosts: 881Location: United States of America

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:36 pm

Dark_Gnat wrote:

lennonlikesmetal wrote:

I've put off expanding my Black Sabbath collection simply because there are so many different versions around and i want to know which sound good or not. Too much choice is sometimes a bad bad thing.

I feel the same way. There have been multiple boxed sets (Black Box, Ozzy Years, etc and CD vinyl replicas, digipaks, etc. I've narrowed it down to either the '96 Castle remasters, or the new ones from Sanctuary. My main reason is that the debut has the songs individually indexed. Having multiple songs on the same track was always annoying to me, especially if I wanted to go strait to N.I.B. The other reason is that the debut on both versions includes Evil Woman and Wicked World, one of which is typically missing in many re-releases. The Castle remasters are cheaper now, which is a big plus considering I'm basically hoping to get all of the Ozzy and Dio material, and maybe the rest of them down the road. However, the Sanctuary versions have amazing packaging. Several of the Sanctuary one are "Deluxe" releases that have a second disc full of bonus material. Paranoid actually has two bonus discs. Unfortunately, Vol4, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage have no extra tracks. The bad thing is that they have not been releases in the US, so I have to buy imports. Amazon has decent prices, but after a dozen or so CD's, it's going to add up.

However, the most important thing to me is sound. I have heard that the Sanctuary versions are the best, but again I have also heard that they are (or maybe based off) the 1996 remasters. Anyone who has some input here would be greatly appreciated.

You're better off just finding an original LP in decent condition for their first few albums...

I don't know of any remasters that sound better then the original, remasters usually just sound louder and more compressed then the originals. I'm sure there is a few exceptions but none that I know of off the top of my head, at least for metal cds. I have the original Darkness descends cd from 1986 which was made in japan, and it sounds amazing, I seriously doubt the reissue sounds better, I assume they just made it louder and more compressed.

Definitely. You can HEAR the bass, the guitars are still in a good level, the drums are fuller/less clicky.

I DID NOT like the remasters of SBG and Individual Thought Patterns. A friend and I were checking them out, and Individual Thought Patterns are way too loud, while the guitar seems weaker than the original version. And the bass on SBG almost covers the guitar completely on certain tracks.

_________________

failsafeman wrote:

I'm so stoked someone finally called me a Nazi for my modding. That's an achievement on the Xbox version.

Remasters are in most cases a joke, espeically vinyl re-releases. Instead of mastering the sources specially for vinyl like it was done two decades ago for every vinyl-record, now the masters are taken as WAV-files from the CD, loudness-war-compressors over the frequency spectrum and then press is on LP (or CD) again.

No restoration done (see Mortal Sin's debut which was bonus CD of their latest CD), no drop-outs in the channels cured, just bad in all terms. No money invested, just a quick job for a repress.

German reader can have a look here on this "Bathory master thesis": what a joke all Bathory remasters are, starting since the 1990 remasters. Especially the 2003 ones are useless and N.O.T.H.I.N.G. compared to the original pressings.http://www.musik-sammler.de/forum/viewt ... pid=631481

Same guy made an analysis also for Mortal Sin:-----Some words about the 2007 remaster (also included on the limied double CD set of "Psychology Of Death"):Besides my original MEGA METAL and VERTIGO pressings, I decided to buy the new album as double CD set, so I have the debut for my car stereo.I listened carefully to the remaster and I noticed a lot of sound flaws and mistakes in the master...!!! Did anybody listen to the 2007 remaster, also released with some live tracks some years ago ??? There are some small drop-outs in the sound and there is no track included without any fault...very sad and a shame !!! What do you think ???In the end I ripped my original MEGA METAL vinyl to computer - and there are no mistakes !!! So it could be a damaged master tape or a lousy and hurry remastering job from a bad source tape, used for the 2008 CD and the "Psychology Of Death" bonus (it is the same master on both versions !!!)...who knows...???----

Remasters are in most cases a joke, espeically vinyl re-releases. Instead of mastering the sources specially for vinyl like it was done two decades ago for every vinyl-record, now the masters are taken as WAV-files from the CD, loudness-war-compressors over the frequency spectrum and then press is on LP (or CD) again.

No restoration done (see Mortal Sin's debut which was bonus CD of their latest CD), no drop-outs in the channels cured, just bad in all terms. No money invested, just a quick job for a repress.

German reader can have a look here on this "Bathory master thesis": what a joke all Bathory remasters are, starting since the 1990 remasters. Especially the 2003 ones are useless and N.O.T.H.I.N.G. compared to the original pressings.http://www.musik-sammler.de/forum/viewt ... pid=631481

Same guy made an analysis also for Mortal Sin:-----Some words about the 2007 remaster (also included on the limied double CD set of "Psychology Of Death"):Besides my original MEGA METAL and VERTIGO pressings, I decided to buy the new album as double CD set, so I have the debut for my car stereo.I listened carefully to the remaster and I noticed a lot of sound flaws and mistakes in the master...!!! Did anybody listen to the 2007 remaster, also released with some live tracks some years ago ??? There are some small drop-outs in the sound and there is no track included without any fault...very sad and a shame !!! What do you think ???In the end I ripped my original MEGA METAL vinyl to computer - and there are no mistakes !!! So it could be a damaged master tape or a lousy and hurry remastering job from a bad source tape, used for the 2008 CD and the "Psychology Of Death" bonus (it is the same master on both versions !!!)...who knows...???----

I've looked at the waveforms of a few new death metal releases, and they were completely brick-walled. This may be one of the reasons that I have little interest in so many newer bands. The loudness is constant, and there is no space to breath. Granted, compression can be done effectively, but I feel that it's gone too far. It doesn't sound natural or organic.

It seems that some record companies are getting the hint. Earache is supposedly re-releasing "Scum" in a dynamic remaster, that focuses on range instead of compression/loudness. If record companies wish to survive, they need to put more effort into the sound quality by not over compressing and giving albums proper masters. It seems that "remaster" has become a new cash in, and often the jobs are done by people who are incompetent, inexperienced, or who lack passion for the music. I hope that the loudness war comes to an end soon.

I have seen a few stereo systems and mp3 players that have a loudness control, which allows the listener to adjust the loudness (different from volume). This effectively compresses the music, but to his/her tastes. A lot of older systems used to have this feature. This makes me want to go find my old turntable and see if it still works.

As for the Black Sabbath remasters - I think I'm going to go with the 2009-2011 versions. The deluxe versions have loads of extras, and from what I've seen the packaging is amazing. These masters were done by Andy Pearce, who apparently took a lot of time and care to get them sounding as good as possible, without over-compression. I'm going to hold on to my WB and Creative Sounds versions until after I get a chance to compare them. I may just start with the debut, and if I like it, I'll continue on with the others.

_________________FYI: 89% of all statistics are made up on the spot - including this one - which proves my point.

My ears are warming up to the Bal-Sagoth remasters. In the case of The Power Cosmic, everything is much more dynamic, the sound is much warmer and airier and generally pleasing. Hearing the remastered "Of Carnage and Gathering of the Wolves" in particular made it evident the guitars have less of a tinny grate, and aligned more with the tone in The Chthonic Chronicles. The keyboards are a touch more vibrant and lush, and the vocals aren't quite as hidden as they used to be; the narrative vocals specifically are also airier, it sounds like.

Oh, and the drums! This may possibly be the first time I listened to Bal-Sagoth paying attention to the drums alone, they sound fuller and a lot less tinny. Very happy with this remaster. I've yet to compare the following two albums, I'm too preoccupied with The Power Cosmic. When the differences dawned on me while listening to the aforementioned song it felt as if I was listening to the album again for the first time, wonderful experience!

Conversely, the remaster of Rust In Peace is easily the worst album I have ever purchased.

Ugh. I decided to complete my Megadeth library right around when the remasters came out, but fortunately this and KIMB were the only remasters I got out of it (and the KIMB remaster is actually worthwhile). Also fortunately, Rust In Peace is a swell enough CD for me to be able to overlook the terrible remastering.

Yeah, I wish Dave had simply removed the vocal tracks from These Boots. The bleeping was funny the first few times, kinda like the way South Park is actually funnier when it's bleeped, but it got old - quick.

_________________FYI: 89% of all statistics are made up on the spot - including this one - which proves my point.

Ultimately, the "definitive version" is a matter of personal opinion. Somewhere out there, there is someone (besides Dave Mustaine) who thinks the remaster of Rust In Peace destroys the original.

When a label is offering a remastered release, I like to see who was involved. If it involves the band and/or original producers/engineers, I'm more likely to take it seriously (although one can be burned; see Megadeth and the 2002 Ozzy remasters) than if its just the label pushing out a new version as a cash in.