"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

We made it to around page 18 (?), and he'll continue his reading at a later date.L

#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

I am not a fan of Rand, but I think it's good that people are reading what she wrote, for the reason that I think reading what she wrote (although this probably applies more readily with The Fountainhead than with Atlas Shrugged) is sort of like getting a rabies vaccine. It's not necessary, but it's still good to have.

I'd suggest that, when reading Rand, you guys keep in mind who she was and what her world was all about. She's the kind of gal that was reacting to the unreality of Soviet culture, (Aleksander Solzenitzen, for example, described Soviet Realism as a requiring a "solemn promise not to tell the truth"). She claimed that reality must be presented as it is, but at the same time she did exactly what the Soviets did: twist facts to conform to their version of the truth (which is probably why she wrote fiction instead of political philosophy because in that case she can make up her own world with her own rules, pretend that it's representative of the real world even when it's not, and not be intellectually dishonest in the process).

There are a number of nasty views she had as well, and it's hard to draw the line between "she is just a product of her time" and "she would have believed these regardless of what generation she was born into." For example, she was a flagrant homophobe, she condemned all societies that had not developed into high capitalist first world economies as inferior (meaning that she was totally down with taking land away from, for example, Native Americans), and she at the same time glorified people like Frank Lloyd Wright (read: he is the inspiration for The Fountainhead), while at the same time engaging in very weird affairs with men many decades her junior who viewed her as she viewed Wright... that is until her younger flings left her for someone else less crazy.

But with Rand, a gal who claimed that she could rationally explain every emotion she had... you've got to keep in mind that that says a lot about who she is. Emotion plays a central role in who we are. It is the foundation of empathy, and it is why we do things like care about other people, help those who are in need, reach out to a person who is sad, and all the other things that make this world more than a cold, soulless industrial wasteland (which the world would have necessarily become, had Rand have had her way). The problem with Rand is that throughout her writings, and beneath the veneer of logic and reason, is nothing. There are no values other than innovation at the expense of all else. Human needs and human suffering do not matter. Social liberalism is unnecessary. Kindness and compassion are signs of weakness. Even having coffee with a friend to discuss how things have been... is alien to the Randian world. And it is for that reason that her politics were summarily rejected both by the left and the right when Atlas Shrugged was published; The Fountainhead didn't get reviews as harsh, I think.

At 3/22/2015 9:41:04 AM, YYW wrote:I am not a fan of Rand, but I think it's good that people are reading what she wrote, for the reason that I think reading what she wrote (although this probably applies more readily with The Fountainhead than with Atlas Shrugged) is sort of like getting a rabies vaccine. It's not necessary, but it's still good to have.

I'd suggest that, when reading Rand, you guys keep in mind who she was and what her world was all about. She's the kind of gal that was reacting to the unreality of Soviet culture, (Aleksander Solzenitzen, for example, described Soviet Realism as a requiring a "solemn promise not to tell the truth"). She claimed that reality must be presented as it is, but at the same time she did exactly what the Soviets did: twist facts to conform to their version of the truth (which is probably why she wrote fiction instead of political philosophy because in that case she can make up her own world with her own rules, pretend that it's representative of the real world even when it's not, and not be intellectually dishonest in the process).

There are a number of nasty views she had as well, and it's hard to draw the line between "she is just a product of her time" and "she would have believed these regardless of what generation she was born into." For example, she was a flagrant homophobe, she condemned all societies that had not developed into high capitalist first world economies as inferior (meaning that she was totally down with taking land away from, for example, Native Americans), and she at the same time glorified people like Frank Lloyd Wright (read: he is the inspiration for The Fountainhead), while at the same time engaging in very weird affairs with men many decades her junior who viewed her as she viewed Wright... that is until her younger flings left her for someone else less crazy.

But with Rand, a gal who claimed that she could rationally explain every emotion she had... you've got to keep in mind that that says a lot about who she is. Emotion plays a central role in who we are. It is the foundation of empathy, and it is why we do things like care about other people, help those who are in need, reach out to a person who is sad, and all the other things that make this world more than a cold, soulless industrial wasteland (which the world would have necessarily become, had Rand have had her way). The problem with Rand is that throughout her writings, and beneath the veneer of logic and reason, is nothing. There are no values other than innovation at the expense of all else. Human needs and human suffering do not matter. Social liberalism is unnecessary. Kindness and compassion are signs of weakness. Even having coffee with a friend to discuss how things have been... is alien to the Randian world. And it is for that reason that her politics were summarily rejected both by the left and the right when Atlas Shrugged was published; The Fountainhead didn't get reviews as harsh, I think.

At 3/22/2015 9:53:46 AM, SeventhProfessor wrote:Yeah, that was clearly a joke that went too far.

I was really surprised that you actually went on for, like, an hour. That took dedication to the shtick.

#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

At 3/22/2015 9:41:04 AM, YYW wrote:Even having coffee with a friend to discuss how things have been... is alien to the Randian world.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think this?

#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

At 3/22/2015 9:41:04 AM, YYW wrote:Even having coffee with a friend to discuss how things have been... is alien to the Randian world.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think this?

I've read a few interviews that she's been in, and read a biography on her a while back. Make no mistake though, she drank a lot of coffee but only for the purpose of keeping her awake late into the night.

At 3/22/2015 9:41:04 AM, YYW wrote:Even having coffee with a friend to discuss how things have been... is alien to the Randian world.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think this?

I've read a few interviews that she's been in, and read a biography on her a while back. Make no mistake though, she drank a lot of coffee but only for the purpose of keeping her awake late into the night.

I don't see how the "catching up with friends" part conflicts with Rand, though. Didn't Eddie spend years doing exactly that every day when he had lunch with the railroad worker? Unless the point of that part of the post was to show that Rand would object to the coffee part, in which case I don't know enough about her moral evaluation of coffee to lean one way or the other.

It just seems like an odd thing to single out.

#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

At 3/22/2015 9:41:04 AM, YYW wrote:Even having coffee with a friend to discuss how things have been... is alien to the Randian world.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think this?

I've read a few interviews that she's been in, and read a biography on her a while back. Make no mistake though, she drank a lot of coffee but only for the purpose of keeping her awake late into the night.

I don't see how the "catching up with friends" part conflicts with Rand, though. Didn't Eddie spend years doing exactly that every day when he had lunch with the railroad worker? Unless the point of that part of the post was to show that Rand would object to the coffee part, in which case I don't know enough about her moral evaluation of coffee to lean one way or the other.

It just seems like an odd thing to single out.

If 'catching up with friends' includes 'engaging in combative discussions about the latest ideas that popped into Ayn Rand's head late into the night with people who adored her' then sure, she 'caught up with friends'. But that's about it.

At 3/22/2015 9:41:04 AM, YYW wrote:I am not a fan of Rand, but I think it's good that people are reading what she wrote, for the reason that I think reading what she wrote (although this probably applies more readily with The Fountainhead than with Atlas Shrugged) is sort of like getting a rabies vaccine. It's not necessary, but it's still good to have.

I'd suggest that, when reading Rand, you guys keep in mind who she was and what her world was all about. She's the kind of gal that was reacting to the unreality of Soviet culture, (Aleksander Solzenitzen, for example, described Soviet Realism as a requiring a "solemn promise not to tell the truth"). She claimed that reality must be presented as it is, but at the same time she did exactly what the Soviets did: twist facts to conform to their version of the truth (which is probably why she wrote fiction instead of political philosophy because in that case she can make up her own world with her own rules, pretend that it's representative of the real world even when it's not, and not be intellectually dishonest in the process).

There are a number of nasty views she had as well, and it's hard to draw the line between "she is just a product of her time" and "she would have believed these regardless of what generation she was born into." For example, she was a flagrant homophobe, she condemned all societies that had not developed into high capitalist first world economies as inferior (meaning that she was totally down with taking land away from, for example, Native Americans), and she at the same time glorified people like Frank Lloyd Wright (read: he is the inspiration for The Fountainhead), while at the same time engaging in very weird affairs with men many decades her junior who viewed her as she viewed Wright... that is until her younger flings left her for someone else less crazy.

But with Rand, a gal who claimed that she could rationally explain every emotion she had... you've got to keep in mind that that says a lot about who she is. Emotion plays a central role in who we are. It is the foundation of empathy, and it is why we do things like care about other people, help those who are in need, reach out to a person who is sad, and all the other things that make this world more than a cold, soulless industrial wasteland (which the world would have necessarily become, had Rand have had her way). The problem with Rand is that throughout her writings, and beneath the veneer of logic and reason, is nothing. There are no values other than innovation at the expense of all else. Human needs and human suffering do not matter. Social liberalism is unnecessary. Kindness and compassion are signs of weakness. Even having coffee with a friend to discuss how things have been... is alien to the Randian world. And it is for that reason that her politics were summarily rejected both by the left and the right when Atlas Shrugged was published; The Fountainhead didn't get reviews as harsh, I think.

This entire post is an ad hom, isn't it?At best, the last paragraph states the effects of objectivism, but doesn't really say why they are the effects or why they are worse than the alternative.

And, I see know reason why empathy disappears. Or charity or anything else.The only thing that disappears is the specter of altruism, which the very notion is illogical. Replacing "altruism" is a logical explanation that can be substantiated and defended.You do "nice things" for selfish reason, and this includes having a cup of coffee to catch up with someone. After all, you aren't going to have a cup of coffee with ADreamOfLiberty, are you? Why? For selfish reasons, namely, there is nothing for you to get out of it.