Farcevalue wrote:Can you point me to the thread where the empty towers on the day and or leading up to it is fleshed out? I know I have seen some information about leases not being renewed and the fact that there was no real estate demand surge after the event. Do we have that compiled here somewhere?

This old post of mine regarding Eric Darton's book "DIVIDED WE STAND" should be of interest to you:

A family member of mine has a high school friend, a long time acquaintance, who claims to have worked at Marsh McClennan. It's right out of the official story, a couple of hundred people who were co-workers, gone and never to return. This person also claims to have seen the second plane hit the tower, from a train somewhere (I have yet to research if this is even in the realm of possibility). This family friend is part of the reason that our conversations around this topic have been so strained, even to the point of having my sanity verified by others (not others from an institution thankfully, we are not in Australia, after all).

I believe my family member actually knows this friend from high school, who interestingly enough, studied acting. The offer has been made for me to conduct an interview, which would be my first opportunity to talk to anyone claiming to have witnessed the event. I am hoping a recorded interview will be agreeable. Does anyone here think this would be a worthwhile endeavor, for any reason?

It has been conclusively proven that what was shown on TV was not a depiction of real events. But for some, there was something there to see, even if it was just smoke.

Some possibilities are:

1. There was something to see, but not what was shown2. There was nothing to see, memories were commingled with televised images3. This person could be an "extra", so to speak, corroborating the official story with 200 co-workers, the plane on a train, etc., who is consigned to an infinity of spreading disinfo.

I am somewhat curious and also a bit loathe to not accept the offer, as it may be perceived as cowardice. It may be a matter of picking one's battles for all the stress it causes within the family. I mention this research to my neighbors, who I see only briefly on occasion and it's like: "Yeah, totally, that wouldn't surprise me at all."

Does anyone else have experience with this "prophet not accepted at home" business? Is anyone interested in hearing the yarn spun by a shill or psychoanalyzing false memories?

(This was kind of related to this topic, but perhaps it belongs in another thread.)

Farcevalue wrote:A family member of mine has a high school friend, a long time acquaintance, who claims to have worked at Marsh McLennan. It's right out of the official story, a couple of hundred people who were co-workers, gone and never to return. This person also claims to have seen the second plane hit the tower, from a train somewhere (I have yet to research if this is even in the realm of possibility).

Farcevalue,You may not know the details yet, but does this person claim to have been working at Marsh McLellan at the time of 9/11 and, if so, is his story that he saw the second plane from a train while commuting to his office in the WTC towers - a miraculous survivor, so to speak?

As for taking up the interview offer, I would certainly do so given a chance - but of course, it is up for you to decide. If you go for it, my only advice would be for you to make some pro-memoria annotations beforehand, a list of relevant questions to submit to that person, in order to make the most of that conversation/interview.

What are the odds that one of the very few persons who actually saw a PLANE hit the tower is at the same time one of the few persons who not only knew many of the alleged victims, but also worked in one of the towers?

But sure, why not ask him some questions? I'd ask him about the offices and the co-workers. I'd ask how much office space was actually in use during that time. Why he was not in the office that day. Which train he saw the plane from. That sort of questions.

In November 2011 I first encountered Grove's projects: Tragedy & Hope, Peace-revolution and the Ultimate History lesson. I became involved in their research for a little over a year. Everything they claimed and I then checked for myself, seemed to check out. I've always had a feeling about the character of Richard Grove that didn't feel right but I never really could put my finger on it. Via Grove's work I encountered a number of other alternative media/researchers: James Corbett (Corbett report), James Evan Pilato, Alex Jones. An entire new reality opened up for me and for the majority of the last year, I've been balancing between fascination about the things I didn't know I didn't know and fear/paranoia about the future.

Then about six weeks ago I encountered the work of Ed Chiarini (known as Dallasgoldbug on youtube) who has been exposing various newsworthy events as complete fakes. I've spent an entire weekend almost without sleep studying his work on a case by case basis and concluded that regardless of the fact I don't think he is right on every single case, his work convinced me that the technique he is exposing, is in fact being used on a large scale and is, when you think about it from the perspective of a successful dis information campaign, common sense. Think about it. You are someone in power and want to spread dis information. You can either bribe a researcher to do the job for you with all the risk of them turning on you. Or, you could create the dis information, create a believable but still fictional character who is to be the conceived author of the information and hire a professional actor with tight non disclosure agreements in the contract. An actor wouldn't be emotionally attached to 'his' work because in essence, it wouldn't be his work at all. There is much more to say about this concept this thread is not the place I think. Suffice here is to say that it can be demonstrated and proven that this technique, using actors for dis information as well as creating a fake reality, is being done on a wide scale.

I am getting to Grove now and what I discovered. About a month ago, after I had convinced myself of the fact that actors have been and are used to deceive us, I coincidentally saw an image of John Belushi , the actor, and realized that he could easily pass for Richard Grove's dad. This idea kept bugging me so I started to roll with it a bit and see where I would lead me. I found out that John Belushi had a brother actor who we all know as Jim Belushi. What I wasn't aware of was that Jim has a son called Robert who is acting as well. I searched Google for images of Robert Belushi and I could not believe my eyes because Robert Belushi is a spitting image of Richard Grove. The hair color is off and Grove wears a lot of makeup but all the facial features are a match. I spend two nights way past bedtime looking at a lot of images of both Grove and Robert Belushi. I also downloaded various video's with Robert Belushi in it from you tube and the next thing I realized was that the voices of Grove and Belushi are a match, if you listened to Grove as much as I did, you will notice quickly that the person of Robert Belushi often bleeds through in the character of Richard Grove. Especially in the way they both talk, intonation, certain habits that no matter how good the actor, will eventually bleed through.

After I convinced myself that Grove was indeed played by the actor Robert Belushi (which solved many contradictions in the character/presentation of Grove that I had prior but could not put my finger on), I looked into Lisa Azbercheski, the supposed partner of Richard Grove. Within minutes I found a picture of this Lisa character together with the Belushi family. Too many coincidences, facial features match, ears of Grove and Belushi are a match, voices match, manner they speak match and Grove's partner looks exactly like someone who is close to Robert Belushi.

Now I would love for someone to go over this with me. Not just telling 'this can't be right' but someone who is willing to spend some time on this and do their own research, look at their pictures, study both the character and the actor etc.. I will attach two pictures to this post. One which shows a big image of Lisa, Grove's supposed partner and one showing both Richard Belushi and Richard Grove. Of the latter I have to warn that their noses look different but once you start to look at more pictures of Robert Belushi, you will probably realize just as I did, that they are the same.

Looking forward to be proven right or wrong, either way, I'm only looking for the truth.

Regards,Henk

(note that one of the images is flipped horizontally so 'Lisa's' hairline is on the different side of the head)

Latex is possible. Heavy make up for sure and of course hair-die. This image of Grove is from the Ultimate History lesson where Grove interviews John Taylor Gatto, who is an actor as well and I also discovered which actor but I will save that for a different thread.

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrO5T3VANB8VIDEO DESCRIPTION:"This video will show you how the CIA approached Oracle corporation to create their list of fake victims for September 11, 2001, and also to find someone who would fake their death to lie to the media to support their story (Todd Beamer and his wife).

Also, the company she then sought to be employed with, Legato Systems, is (of all places) the company which reportedly hired the (in)famous "Todd Beamer's" father (David) as a VP shortly after 9/11. Coincidences, coincidences... As it is, Richard grove himself used to work for Legato Systems:

"It wasn’t until a few years later, while working as an Enterprise Software Salesman for Legato/EMC Corp; that Richard Grove began to see the larger picture – that 9/11 as a profitable event, was being used as a catalyst for other planned horrific and profitable events."http://www.thepowerhour.com/news4/richard_grove.htm

All in all, it would seem that the Richard Grove personnage is a fraud from top to toe - what with his bogus "whistleblowing" involving the phantom WTC tenant Marsh Mc Lellan - and his alleged colleagues who suuposedly died in the WTC towers on 9/11:http://ourworldinbalance.blogspot.it/20 ... grove.html

Here's what our member Veritasirl rightly wrote about Richard Grove - ( back in October 2010 on the Reality Shack forum) :

On the surface Richard Grove’s Story seems a fascinating and believable account of financial shenanigans going on prior to 9/11 but if we accept that there were no real victims then we have to look at his story from another perspective. Is his story meant to reinforce the notion that the Towers were occupied before 9/11? Perhaps someone could contact Scott Forbes -if he has not already been- a Senior Database Administrator for Fiduciary Trust who used to work in the South Tower of the WTC and who said that there was a ‘power down’ on the weekend before 9/11. If Forbes was a genuine employee he would have some idea of the actual numbers present in the South Tower in the weeks and months leading up to 9/11.

It is not just Grove, it is their entire operation that is a fraud as well. I've convincingly proven to myself that James Evan Pilato is also a fraud. He is an affiliate of Tragedy and Hope which is Grove's main project. This guy, Pilato, plays a number of other characters in alternative news stations. I am currently creating a video exposing this guy showing how the post production that was done to hide Pilato's teeth on a character was done sloppy and I was able to go frame by frame and discover Pilato's real teeth popping up a number of times. I also show how this character lower lip is moving down while his lower teeth are moving up. It took me about four sittings to spot this, then half an hour to load the video into editing software and find his real teeth.

As for Lisa's history, that could be interesting. I have been searching for Lisa's history as well. Only I was not interested in written history, I was interested in pictures from her life, school, friends, youth etc. I found nothing at all. I did the same for Grove, the only pictures I was able to find were the ones related to his projects.

For me the concept of actors being used in fake reality was a big missing piece of the puzzle. It resonates perfectly with history, Plato's Republic and perception management. This idea or concept is virtually unknown in our culture which is the main reason of its genius. What the mind doesn't know, the eyes can't see. I know the work of Dallasgoldbug is not welcome on this forum, a member informed me about that via email last night, and I understand why that is. To be honest, I suspect Goldbug could be a shill who is making false claims on purpose to discredit the entire idea. That is, if you buy into the idea that all information is provided top-down so it can be made harmless before it reaches the public. I've been accused a number of times of the past weeks of suffering from the Goldbugvirus which I just laugh away, I know myself and I know that the last thing I would do, is come out and slander someone. Aside from Goldbug being a shill or real, I am convinced that his main premise, actors being used to create our fake reality, it very true and it also makes a lot of sense logistically. I do think though that it is important to build very strong cases that don't just rest on ear measurement or voice analysis and then just conclude they are the same person.

After some closer inspection, I will now submit some more info about the Richard Grove personnage, in order to illustrate in due, substantiated fashion why I am now firmly convinced that Grove is yet another "wolf in sheep's clothing" - or, in other words, a gatekeeper masquerading as whistleblower.

Do you all remember this early, 'internationally popular' conspiracy tale doing the rounds in the aftermath of 9/11?"Gold bricks to the value of hundreds of billions of dollars were stolen from beneath the World Trade Center, before the Towers collapsed."

Well, it appears that this ridiculous 'rumor' was first launched/peddled by Rich Grove. The ridiculousness of it all was actually exposed a long time ago (2006) by one Bruce Tanner, whom I must admit I have never heard of before - but this article of his that I bumped into yesterday sounds rather sharp and legit to me. At the time of course, Mr Tanner may well have been innocently unaware of the VICSIMS paradigm - and I cannot support/vouch for the entire contents of his article. Anyway, here it is - please take the time to read it if you're interested in the subject:

Of course, the fact (or rumor) that Paul Bremer was (or posed as) a Marsh Mc Lellan executive is a pretty 'juicy' tidbit of information - as far as 'we conspiracy-theorists' are concerned. But, dear reader, please take a step back and consider this: if the MAIN OBJECTIVE of the 9/11 psyop-hoax was to grind in stone (in the public's consciousness) the notion of 3000 people being killed that day, what better/smarter move would it be for the perps to connect Paul Bremer to Marsh Mc Lellan? In this way, every doubter of the Official 9/11 Tale would be misdirected to focus on this 'damning fact' - rather than questioning the very notion that 3000 people really died in the towers! "FALSE LEADS" is the name of the game.

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiI31G40Lew

At the end of the day, Richard Grove appears to have been cast as an 'intellectual' Alex Jones who caters for the "uptown / Wall Street" / financial-scam-focused faction of 9/11 truthers, who will be mislead into connecting juicy (but ultimately useless) dots - and totally overlook the now overwhelming evidence that the WTC towers were empty as they came down.

An hour may be more of a time investment than some can afford, but I find the 47:30 to 55:30 section to be a fairly solid 8 minutes that may be worth a listen in the name of withholding judgement until his own words have been evaluated.

He advocates for anarchy, exposing corporate control of compulsory education, using the trivium as a method for analyzing information and eliminating contradictions, recognizing the media as a tool of mass brainwashing and control, and has coined a term for the likes of the Bush family: "cross-generational serial killers".

I fail to see how this could bolster the agenda of the powers that be, but he could be a perp; who knows how they think.

I enjoy the podcasts and have heard him deny planes on two separate occasions. I have followed the info for a long time and the only effects I have noticed is that I am more prone to verify primary sources, watch almost zero television and have learned to never have an ounce of trust for anyone that seeks violent control over others. (Granted, the scourge of the political system is being exposed on many fronts now and anyone who takes five minutes to study it can apprehend the logical and moral failures. Overcoming the programming is another story.)