— n informal , derogatory ( Southern English ) a young working-class person whose tastes, although sometimes expensive, are considered vulgar by some

Southern English, see that's not really how I would define it up here. Plus there are plenty of upper class chavs.

How would you define it?

Well the original point you made was assuming I hated the working class because I used the term chav. My argument is that working class doesn't automatically make you a chav and that thinking so could come across as middle/upper class prejudice. For example I consider myself working class (and proud) and don't consider myself a chav in any way or have any chav tendencies (poor education, ignorance, antagonistic/violent behaviour, bigotry, tendency to wear tracksuits/"designer" clothing, wear excessive amounts of bling and/or fake tan, listen to bad music, beat up black people in night club toilets etc....)

Chavs are just basically arseholes of society and come from many different backgrounds not just working class.

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And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts And I looked and behold, a pale horse And his name that sat on him was Death And Hell followed with him.

— n informal , derogatory ( Southern English ) a young working-class person whose tastes, although sometimes expensive, are considered vulgar by some

Southern English, see that's not really how I would define it up here. Plus there are plenty of upper class chavs.

How would you define it?

Well the original point you made was assuming I hated the working class because I used the term chav. My argument is that working class doesn't automatically make you a chav and that thinking so could come across as middle/upper class prejudice. For example I consider myself working class (and proud) and don't consider myself a chav in any way or have any chav tendencies (poor education, ignorance, antagonistic/violent behaviour, bigotry, tendency to wear tracksuits/"designer" clothing, wear excessive amounts of bling and/or fake tan, listen to bad music, beat up black people in night club toilets etc....)

I was going by the more common definition, ie the one Girv quoted above. And it just seemed to that whenever a working class person is in the news for whatever reason that there are always people commenting how chavvy they are or that they're working class scum. That's where my comment came from.

Moving onto your point about what makes someone a chav, the poor standard of education is not solely the problem of the individual, and since a lot of the other problems you mention stem from the lack of education it is unfair to solely blame the individual for the results of it. I'm not saying we should absolve someone of the wrongdoing that they do, but we should also look at their circumstances and see how they got to where they are, and not just assume they were born that way and they'll never change.

I really don't have an opinion on their legs/arse whatever but I've always though Sarah was the prettiest and the friendliest of the lot. I've never been a fan of Nadine since I originally watched Irish Popstars (with a certain Louis Walsh as a judge) when she managed to make it into the final band but had to be kicked out because she was too young. It just seemed too coincidental that she managed to get into the final lineup of the girl band of Popstars: The Rivals (with a certain Louis Walsh as judge and eventual manager).

I've never liked Cheryl as she's always been a gobby person and of her punch up with the toilet cleaner. She also seems to think she deserves all the platitudes that people (primarily Sun readers) pour on her because shes a mug for going back to a cheating prick.

I've also felt sorry for Nicola because she was always deemed the ugly one and no one seemed to mind (especially the tabloid media, worringly) that they were bullying a young girl based on her hair colour and her looks.

Kimberly, I have no opinion on.

So yeah, Sarah is the best I reckon. She also has the best solo part of The Promise, easily one of Girls Alouds best songs along with the obviously great Biology, Love Machine, No Good Advice, Sound Of The Underground, I could go on, they're a really great pop band.

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It's midnight in Manhattan, this is no time to get cute, it's a mad dog's promenade, So walk tall, or baby don't walk at all.