Talk:Dwarven

I removed all refrences to Dwarvish, as I can't find that term anywhere. In WoW its called "Dwarven" as well as the RPG. If dwarvish is mentioned in a source we can add it back into the article as a footnote.Baggins 11:41, 25 December 2006 (EST)

Contents

We really need some citations...
I really question the magnus, magna bit, as Magna is used interchangeably as a neutral term for both male and female in Cycle of Hatred.Baggins 10:45, 29 December 2006 (EST)

I shouted "Die trogg scum in dwarfen, and "scum" translated to modon, a mispelling of modan... weird 0_0

a random weird thing i had is that when me and my dwarf friend (im a gnome), said something offensive to me in dwarvish, and then i saw one word translating to "algaz." and i was like "what was that fourth word you said? and it turned out that it was "suck." So now i wonder, why would dwarves name their intricate system of tunnel checkpoints "Dun Suck"?

mabye for all the hours grief spent corpse running through it so they can get Bjarn or something?--Truckman1 22:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Words from the language are dispensed more-or-less randomly among the variety of words. There is at least one more word that would come up as "algaz". This is just an odd occurrence, albeit a very funny anecdote but pointless for determining anything in "real" dwarvish. --Amathusia 14:12, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Some of the examples, "loch" is Scots from an unattested native language in Scotland for a specific type of lake. As well, numerous other terms pop out to a speaker of a few Germanic languages such as Dwarves shouting for guards with "Skulde!", as in English you have the word "Shield", German "Schild", and in the Scandinavian dialects "*skild".

The clearest influence of Dwarvish mannerisms etc in WoW are clearly Germanic... Either Scandinavian, Scottish (the accent), or other Germanic account. I'd find it interesting if the Earthen were to speak a language more closer to a proto-Germanic language than more directly Scandinavian. Ah, as well, Scots has been heavily influenced by Scandinavian languages than other English dialect/languages as the Vikings colonized much more in the north, and the Normans extended less so in the north. It's a good bet that Dwarvish is based from Scots with a heavy chunk of Scandinavian languages. (Swedish/Norse/Danish are all closer as "languages" than many "dialects") --Amathusia 14:18, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, "loch" is Gaelic in origin, meaning it is a Celtic word, not Germanic. Celtic and Scandinavian languages have traditionally inspired the languages of dwarves and elves, starting with Tolkien. --User:Varghedin/Sig 07:17, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

As I said "'loch' is Scots from an unattested native language in Scotland", however it is attested, as it's Scottish Gaelic. So, I was wrong, but not in that it comes from a Germanic language. As I noted, the word "loch" is in Dwarvish because it's in Scots (which is English's closest sibling language), that Scots got it from Scottish Gaelic is true, but not the reason why Dwarvish uses the word. In any case, the Earthen languages (those descending from a hypothetical single language spoken by the Earthen, thus, Common, Dwarvish, Gnomish, and well, Troggs use Lower Common, so obviously) are definitely inspired by Germanic languages. Dwarvish in the most on Scots, and Scandinavian, with only Gaelic loan words borrowed through those languages. Gnomish and Common by sharing common words in their translation hashes are definitely related, with a supposition that Common is based closer to Old English rather than Modern English (so, English minus about 90% of the Latin roots, although still of a simplified grammar form). While Gnomish? Yeah, that's a hard one to place. European culture never really had a "gnomish"-like race, of innovation and low-high technology. As they descended apparently from the Giants rather than the Earthen, it's likely a Germanic-like language, but I have no idea what it would be modeled upon. --Amathusia 08:37, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, as another interesting side note, the word "Thane" for King, is actually similar to the Old English word "thane" which meant "servant". While the meanings don't seem particularly close at first, the "samurai" were a ruling party, and yet it means "subservient", "subordinate", etc. If the idea of "thane" as "servant" in Earthen is presumed to be a title reserved by only the highest of the Earthen, then relative to the Titans, the title is subordinate ("thane" meaning then "servant of the Titans") however, once you remove the Titans, the title becomes Grandiose and superlative. It's kind of an interesting and cool idea there. :) --Amathusia 08:37, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Some of it most definitly has Germanic touches, though the origins of the Dwarvish language seem to stem from Tolkien's Dwarvish language, Khuzdul, which used Semetic triconsonantal roots. The accents and some pronounciations are much different though. Doomhandtalk 08:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

While that's a decent interpretation. Its not officially translated as of yet. Thus why its not allowed in the main translation section. Your interpretation would be valid for the speculaton section however.Baggins (talk) 10:30, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Awhile back I did a google search of Bael'Gar to see if I could find a reference for that translation, and this is all I could fine [1]. I'm not sure where the poster got his information, but I doubt it's official.--Austin P (talk) 19:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, are we sure that the word is specifically dwarven? Its mentioned only a few times right? Once by Krasus and once by Rom? Neither seem to confirm any specific race for it. From Kalec's pov, he's talking about the knowledge his flight and what Malygos calls him. From Rom's POV its many in general. If anything the language has a stronger ties to Draconic due to the Malygos connection. I'm going to move it.Baggins (talk) 03:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Where is it called the language called dwarvish, until a citation (possibly from a quest or from the RPG) im placing the "citation needed" template there. Aedror42 (talk) 12:20, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oh sorry my mistake i didn't read the line below "In World of Warcraft the Dwarven language is listed as Dwarven under the Dwarf skill list, and Dwarvish in chat mode." :S Aedror42 (talk) 12:38, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

To the Word speculation I added "Redground" as possible translation to "Bael'dun". Seeing how Bael'dun (Mulgore)'s ground is a lot red-er than the rest of the region AND how dwarven settlements are usually built into the ground, I think its possible that Dun means 'ground' as well as settlement. I added this possibility as well. (If it means settlement.)
Forgot to give signature. --Ictiv (talk) 14:09, June 22, 2010 (UTC)