A man who allegedly killed his 13-year-old half-sister survived a fusillade of bullets from New York City police officers early Tuesday, after pointing his pistol at officers.

Officers responded to a 911 call at 2971 Eighth St. in Harlem at 3:27 a.m. Tuesday.

Steven Murray, 28, had allegedly shot his mother Christine Fryar, 44, and her daughter Annie, according to the NYPD. Paramedics arrived to find the daughter dead with a gunshot wound to the head. The mother, who was also shot in the head, was transported to Harlem Hospital, and is listed in critcal condition.

Police eventually confronted Murray, who was running through the surrounding neighborhood. The officers pursued Murray on foot and returned fire after he fired one shot.

Assuming 15 round mags,Officer Robinson probably expended every round he was carrying.So he was standing there defenseless.

That's a good point. Where the hell did an LEO get 45 rounds of ammunition? He must have had to stop to reload clips? A lot of ammo comes in 50 rd boxes, but I don't imagine the LEO carry a box of ammo in their pocket. I can see two extra clips and maybe a back up gun. Surely they ran out of ammo.

My only thought about it is that it seems like blind fearful panic on the parts of the two LEO shooters. One shot from a perp and they massively and methodically unload their complete ammo cache down range willy nilly.....very professional.

Old police joke: “Why’d you shoot him 44 times?”
Answer: “Ran out of ammo.”

You’ve never heard of suppression fire? As long as one of you is shooting it makes it that much harder for him to get off a good shot. In combat, in World War II, Korea and Vietnam, approximately one round of small arms fire in 10,000 hit a target and four out of five people hit with small arms survived.

The police in New York used to use the .38 Police Special, not for it’s stopping power, but lack of stopping power. The round is unlikely to penetrate walls and ceilings and strike by-standers. It’s a feature, not a bug.

12
posted on 04/27/2012 5:50:35 AM PDT
by Lonesome in Massachussets
(Queeg Olbermann: Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them.)

Assuming 15 round mags,Officer Robinson probably expended every round he was carrying.So he was standing there defenseless.

Most police officers are trained that, when you have to shoot, to continue shooting rapid-fire until the perp goes down. So, yes, they probably emptied their magazines into him. Then again, cops have one or two spare mags on their belts.

13
posted on 04/27/2012 5:53:51 AM PDT
by PapaBear3625
(In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)

The worst marksmanship award on the planet has to be given to the Vienna, Austria PD (and SWAT).

Perp goes in to rob a jewelry store with a .357 Mag revolver. Employee hits silent alarm. Perp caps first cop through the door and kills him; a hostage standoff ensues.

More cops and SWAT arrive. Cops are armed with Glock 17s, H&K MP5 SMG, and 5.56mm AUGs. Cops send in a negotiator who is promptly shot and wounded. Hostage drama continues.

Perp and hostage leave store and he manages his way down the street (hostage in tow) to another store. While forcing the door, the hostage makes a break and the cops unload on the perp to the tune of 1,200 rounds (approximately). [Perp has forced the door and is inside the building when the fusillade hits.] Unscathed, but with no way to make an escape, the perp commits suicide.

I don’t know what he was carrying, but a Glock 17 mag happens to hold 17 rounds. A Glock 22 holds 15. So the mag in the pistol plus two spares is enough. A standard belt mag holder carries two magazine.

I have more than 45 rounds in my car. Just sayin’. 45 rounds isn’t that big of a deal.

One shot from a perp and they massively and methodically unload their complete ammo cache down range willy nilly.....very professional.

This guy had just shot his mother and his sister in the head, and you think the police opening up on him is an overreaction? I respectfully disagree.

My cousin retired as a Lieutenant of Detectives from the NYPD, working on the Manhattan DA's homocide squad to finish his career. He never drew his revolver in 20 years on the force. He actually once talked a gentleman distraught over a fight with his wife to surrender his weapon without drawing his own. If someone had ever taken a shot at him, I doubt that he would have hesitated to return fire with every thing he had.

17
posted on 04/27/2012 5:55:52 AM PDT
by Lonesome in Massachussets
(Queeg Olbermann: Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them.)

Yea....good LEO practice.....somebody pops a cap off at you and you unload your stash with a couple/three mags worth not hitting what you aimed at....don’t even try to compare this to combat in Korea, Viet Nam or WWII....this was in NYC for cripes sake. Let’s just publish NYPD’s new policy of apparently careless massive SUPPRESSION FIRE in the paper and see what its citizens think.

The perp had already executed his 13 y/o sister with two shots to the head, then he shot his mother. Surely he would have no qualms shooting a stranger, and a cop at that. Plus the guy was a career criminal.

A revolver, even with a couple of quick loads in nowhere equivalent to .40 semi-auto or similar with at least three 15 round backup mags from two LEOs. I’d hazard to guess your cousin with his revolver might actually have hit someone with 1/10 of the spray and pray. I think if you asked your cousin about this, he might tell you what he’d have done differently.

NYPD uses Glock 17’s now IIRC. They switched from the ubiquitious S&W Model 10 some time ago. Having been used to DA revolvers they had a rash of “foot shots” until they went to a 11 pound trigger in the Glock, called the NY Trigger.

Just goes to show what fear and adrenaline can do. Also, the shorter the barrel, the easier to miss a full grown man at even a small distance of 25' or less - epsecially if you don't have the luxury of taking a stance and using two hands to take a steady aim. We are so into the movies wher a guy takes a snap shot with a pistol and takes out the right eye of someone else at 100', that we base our thoughts and expectations on illusions. My wife and I practice often so we know how we shoot when in "hurry mode" and it allows us to compensate if necessary. Of course we haven't tried it when someone else is shooting at us, so we have no idea of how a real situation will go down....

27
posted on 04/27/2012 6:02:26 AM PDT
by trebb
("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)

"It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts. It's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger...And I won't." -J.B. Books

It helps to aim too...

Mike

32
posted on 04/27/2012 6:04:09 AM PDT
by MichaelP
(The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools ~HS)

I think the cops could do with much more range time; and,
what is it with shooting the mother and sister? How much of a degenerate could the guy be?

Last summer I had jury duty. It was a murder case. The accused shot his grandfather in the chest because he refused to give him a hundred dollars for booze and drugs.
The prosecution’s witnesses were the guy’s mother, grandmother and sister.
When I was questioned during the jury selection process, I simply stated that if his own mother, grandmother and sister were the eye witnesses, why were we wasting time with a trial? I was dismissed and allowed to go home.

14/85 wouldn’t allow them to requalify at the firing range, but then paper targets don’t shoot back. I very much doubt there were any warning shots or “suppression fire.” Police are trained to “shoot center of mass” until the threat is no longer a threat. Sounds like that’s what happened here.

That's a good point. Where the hell did an LEO get 45 rounds of ammunition?

Three 15 round magazines. One in the weapon, two on the belt. That is a fairly standard ammo load out. The problem is the time gap between round 45 and round 46 tends to get a bit long. Largely because it involves a run back to the station.

48
posted on 04/27/2012 6:57:23 AM PDT
by GonzoGOP
(There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)

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