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> [{quoted}](name=A54 Carnage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8eFdJmA,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2019-02-26T13:47:49.179+0000)
>
> Regardless of how good someone is you are put on an equal playing field you are given all the same tools and opportunities, same runes, same champions , same number of minions same number of towers same neutral objectives same items really same everything. By that sense he isn't doing anything that isn't in accordance with equality the only difference is how effectively he is able to use these tools and take advantage of his opportunities
Suppose I tell you we're going to have a competition. At the end, the winners (say, the top 5 out of 50 people) get $100 each and everyone else gets nothing. We're going to determine the top five by having 5 relay races. Your teams will be entirely random, we'll just pull lots out of a hat and each race will consist of 10 teams of 5. Turns out, Usain Bolt thinks this'll be fun, so he comes along for the giggles. Mathematically, only (at MOST) 20 people can POSSIBLY be on a team with Usain Bolt, and its possible that it could be even less. Do you consider this competition "fair" for the 29 people who will NOT ever be on a team with him?
If Ranked is EVER based on individual performance, then this problem goes away. But as long as a player's rank is decided ENTIRELY by simple "W/L", it is inherently unfair to have people INTENTIONALLY playing below their rank.

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Do you not understand though. I never said theyre cheating in a particular game like scripters or hackers that cheat in a particular game.
Everybody who is on their main account is queueing up for ranked to face players of their mmr. Nobody on their main wants to face somebody 3+ tiers higher playing on a smurf. The mmr system exists in order to match players with similar mmr against each other resulting in the winners moving up and the losers moving down. By using a fake identity they are cheating the mmr system by hiding their true mmr in order to face easier opponents then the opponents that they should be facing according to the mmr system, if the mmr system knew their true mmr.

Ok you're actually making half valid points now and I will give you that so congratulations on that regard. However, in league you are meant to lose around half your games anyway so it's not extremely detrimental nor is it going to seriously impact anyone's mmr as previously stated I acknowledge that it is extremely frustrating and demoralizing but at the same time alot of these people aren't purely trying to curb stomp low level or inexperienced players, some people are trying to climb back from a ban like one of my diamond friends, (he was able to climb from unranked to diamond in 27 games by his claims and spent very little time "ruining games" he also claims he would never smurf intentionally because anything below mid plat is a cesspool. You have content creators trying to encourage there viewers that they can climb out of elo hell and you have players like me who are just trying to learn new mechanics and are probably just as bad at these mechanics as an iron-silver player so people like this aren't doing much stomping any way. If someone is smurfing for the sole purpose of ruining games I would definitely categorize it as unfair as it violates tos by both griefing and being unsportsman like.

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You seem to lack having an understanding of what a competitive game is, if you think its fair for someone of a higher skill level to use a fake identity in order to play against lower level players and ruin the matchmaking balance of their games. If your mmr is supposed to represent your skill level, how is using a fake mmr on a smurf account fair?

Alot of smurf accounts are made for content by content creators to show that carrying a team and yourself out of "elo hell" (iron - silver) isn't impossible and alot of some of the most popular videos are "unranked to challenger series" another portion of smurfs are people who have been banned and are trying to begin their climb all over again. The final portion of smurfs are people who might actually suck at a certain role and made their smurf to practice that role like me for example, I've been a jungle and support main for my entire league career and thus have piss poor laneing mechanics I created a smurf to practice laneing because me getting repeatedly stomped in lane wasn't fun for me or my team so I went to a lower elo where the match was more even very rarely do you have people smurf with their primary focus is to ruin games.

Ummm? Pretty sure I provided several facts proving my point unless you're talking about your soccer comparison I just didn't feel the need to provide the facts because it was actually just that stupid but ok I'll bite. In league you are given all the same tools it's how one user those tools which is the primary difference. In any sport the athletes body is there primary tool the difference of size strength and speed of a 16 year old which is considered a young adult in clot of countries and even some states of America vs an 8 year old who hasn't even hit puberty yet is unbelievably huge furthermore smurfing doesn't break any rules where a 16 year old playing in an 8 year old soccer league does

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Yes, because my silver ass is going to be able to outplay a diamond who has much better game knowledge than me.
Intentionally playing against people who are not as good at the game as you just to fuck over their game and their MMR is unfair. If you can't see that, please stop playing or learn some common sense.

The way mmr and league works you're supposed to be losing about half your games anyway so one loss isn't going to fuck up anyone's mmr you're going to play people who are better then you everyonce in a while anyway instead of crying that it's unfair which I've already proved that it's not learn from the experience and get better there's a saying that you learn less in victory then in defeat take it as an opportunity to learn instead of being acting like an entitled 4 year old.

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Smurfing puts the enemy team at a disadvantage and skews the actual ranks of players in ranked. It doesn't matter if your "learning" or doing something different that you don't normally do. Your knowledge of the game exceeds the people that your playing against and puts you at a much higher chance of winning even if you're "handicapping yourself".
Also doing it because "I want to play with my low ranked friends" is not an excuse.

Let's break down cheating and unfair by definition and then I'll explain to you how it's not unfair or cheating. Now cheating by definition is "acting dishonestly or injusticely to gain an unfair advantage" seeing as smurfing is not against tos nor is the smurf in question using a third party program such as scripts therefore the person in question isn't cheating, but is it unfair? The definition of unfair in this context is simply "not obeying or following the rules of a game or sport" however there is another definition that may be applied which states unfair as "not acting in accordance with equality" we already discussed how smurfing isn't against any rules so it's not unfair by the first definition now let's tackle the second definition. Regardless of how good someone is you are put on an equal playing field you are given all the same tools and opportunities, same runes, same champions , same number of minions same number of towers same neutral objectives same items really same everything. By that sense he isn't doing anything that isn't in accordance with equality the only difference is how effectively he is able to use these tools and take advantage of his opportunities, with this I am stating that anyone can be as good or possibly even better then the smurf in question if they put in the time to practice and research and learn the game. By definition smurfing is not cheating nor is it unfair. Here are some example of what is cheating or unfair. 1. Scripting 2. Steam sniping. 3. Boosting. the only thing it's unfair against is millennials delusion of entitlement. No-one owes you anything, riot doesn't owe you anything, and the world doesn't owe you anything

There's no third party software involved it's just one player who's better then you beating your ass, is it demoralize yes, is it frustrating, obviously, but seeing as he has 0 unfair advantage he's not cheating. He's simply just better at the game.

{{champion:104}}
{{champion:30}}
{{champion:164}}
{{champion:102}}
Are all considered top junglers last I checked but I've been in the field for a month so I might be a little behind the times but I wouldn't say the list is bad as I play most of the champions you mentioned myself regularly I would definitely put my girl {{champion:60}} higher on the list but that may be biased.

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Thanks for the tips, seems like it would really help. I guess I've just been scared to play normals because I'm trying to play Yasuo top lane, and I know I'm actually playing him out of lane and he's extremely hard to learn, so I guess I just don't want to be the reason my team loses, but the way you put it makes it a little easier because I know it should help in the long run.

If you're still new to the game and don't have basic mechanics down yet then yes bots do help to a certain extent but aside from learning mechanics no it doesn't really do anything. There's a saying that you learn more from a loss then in victory instead of just getting destroyed and just being like "oh this guys a smurf there's no way I'll ever beat him" observe and see what he's doing different and better to cause him to crush you. Another piece of advice my diamond friend who got me into the game gave me when I started "was play the game to learn not to win the wins will eventually follow your biggest opponent every game should be yourself from last game" set small goals for yourself like "I'm going to get so and so cs by 10 minutes this game" or "I'm going to have a kda of 2.0 or better" also if you're trying to improve spend about 70 percent of your time actually playing and the other 30 doing research watch videos and streams and watch your replays to see what youre doing well and doing poorly from more of a third person perspective. Good luck on your climb and I hope this helps

Sylas is still suffering from new champ syndrome over the next few patches he's going to see a multitude of buffs and nerfs its almost like riot should make a pbe server and balance a champion before release..... Oh wait

I think I enjoyed the game the most in season 4 and everything after that slowly began going down hill, removal of green wards, removal of mana pots, removal of sight stone removal of trackers knife, removal of vision control, making adcs irrelevant, the ardent censor phase, making adcs even more irrelevant that professional adcs started getting benched because top laner and mid laner mains became ore relevant in the bot lane, reworked irelia, Pyke. And that's just small things that have slowly made the game slightly less enjoyable but here's the biggest thing. The game lost its magic when riot decided to go absolutely bonkers when it came to damage and shortening game time, in my opinion what made league so great was seeing the amazing 1 v 5 out plays, or the 40-60 minute long edge of your seat games but now it's just so snowbally and damage is just so high, 90% of the games are incredibly one sided even on a professional level, damage is so absurdly high you don't get the chance to 1 v 5 outplay because the midlaner on the enemy team managed to build there second item and can now shot you and if you do pull it of it was probably on yas or nasus, or riven or Irelia or darius or something else that is busted or you were just absolutely fed as fuck or maybe both and it doesn't feel as amazing as it used to and the hopes and dreams of grandeur that originally made the game what it was has gone away and thus passion for it. But who knows maybe I'm just a grumpy old dog that can't learn any new tricks.

Oh this is a fun one and I certainly have a few ideas. .#1 on the top of the list you have lee sin the story of the summoner in training who bit off more then he could chew and evolved into the blind monk he is today. Then I feel like graves and tf would be a good story but then again the whole friendship betrayal revenge thing is kind of cliche and overdone but I still think it would work. Then there's the civil wa of sylas vs damacia, and finally Elise because she's been my favorite champion for like 5 years.

Some people only play ranked as it's the most fun for them there's nothing in the tos that prevents them from first timing a champion in ranked I understand it can be frustrating and demoralizing but at the end of the day it's just a game stay positive, rotate and help them out and take objectives as a team and hopefully secure your victory if you lose you can't win them all anyone but flaming and giving up before the match even begins because someone is first timing a champion is almost a guarantee lost

> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EKEtym1I,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-06T07:21:43.417+0000)
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> If you want low and slow, your only real bet is gonna be DoTA 2, you might like Smite?
Haven't tried smite yet but it does look interesting, glad to hear dota2 is a good bet for a slower pace, do you know anything about strife? It's small with only 33 champions and new but how's the game play and pace if you know at all.

Sylas with after shock shield bash second wind and revitalize as main tree and sudden impact and ravenous hunter on his second tree, start ring and pot or shield and pot, rush sheen huge power spike, build ludens finish lich bane boots ninja tabi or Merc treads. SV, randuins, Zhonyas hour glass. This build plays to his w and e which are pretty much the strongest part of his entire kit, makes you pretty tanky deals good damage and you have max cdr not to mention the panic button of hourglass.

> [{quoted}](name=Apostle of Light,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5bwZtNrb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-06T06:12:06.742+0000)
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> I feel like Ocean is pretty weak but I usually notice a pretty good difference with the other three
Well yeah the buffs are noticeable but are they more important then a 1.6k gold advantage and map pressure of first tower + all 5 plates, or rift herald or baron. Like yeah the dragons are nice and all I just feel like all other objectives take priority and the only time you take drake is if you're playing a jungler that excels at solo dragons at level 3-4

> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EsBY28BZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-05T13:29:55.450+0000)
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> Riot makes like $50 off of directly selling a champion.
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> And only idiots buy a skin just because a champion is temporarily strong.
I bought the
sylas skin upon release it had nothing to do with him being strong simply sylas was the most excited I've ever been for a new champion and I couldn't wait to play him, I would have bought the entire bundle with the boarder and all that shit too if my wife would've let me but she didn't

Stay away the game is in the worst state it's ever been in, but if you quit because of the pace the game is lightning fast (I've finished games in as early as 18 minutes not including 15 minute ffs) so maybe you could try it again but personal opinion and opinion of ALOT of pros and streamers is this is the worst the games ever been and toxicity and stupidity are at an all time high.

Oh yeah and not dieing is way more important then getting kills especially if you have a bounty on your head. Get kills when you can safely but do your best to not die giving the enemy 1000 gold can shift the momentum dramatically.

Ok I few quick tips that will help imo
1. Get a duo probably a jungler or adc as both roles are extremely impactful jungle is better for early-mid game impact adc better for mid-late pick someone whos play style compliments your own.
2. /muteall at the start of everygame iron-gold is a toxic cesspool of bullshit and won't say anything productive 99% of the time any way.
3. Abuse pings! Mid lane missing? Ping! Someone walk through one of your wards? Ping! Notice the enemy blue buff just respawned and think the jungler is either on that side of the map? Ping!
4. OBJECTIVES OBJECTIVES OBJECTIVES. here's a list of priorties in order
1. Turret plating and turrets: turret plating gold is absolutely absurd giving 160 gold divided evenly among all players whom helped killed the plate if you finish a tower pre 10 minutes and it's first tower you get over 1000 gold! Further more having towers down allows you to push deeper and thus cause pressure to more easily take more objectives.
2. Rift herald. This objective is absolutely ridiculous if used properly you can take out and entire lanes objectives including inhib. Not to mention the team that secures rift herald wins 85% of the time I would put this objective as #1 but it doesn't Spawn until plating falls so yeah plating first herald second.
3. Dragons getting 100 global gold and a global bufis very nice but you have all game to take dragons but can only take plates pre 10 and herald 10-20.
4. Baron, baron can absolutely win the game with its buff and global 300 gold but it doesn't spawn until 20 so get all that other shit first until baron spawns.
5. Lastly inhibs: everyone knows inhibs are critical to winning the game but getting all of the shit above makes getting them a breeze.
5. Don't back immediately after every kill especially if your relatively healthy push your lead even further kill some minions and if possible take some objectives before backing.
6. Enter the game with a positive mindset, and decompress to relax your nerves. Take a walk around the house grab a glass of water stretch or meditate I recommend doing at least one or 2 of these before every game but especially after a tough lost that may tilt you it may sound cheesy but studies have shown gamers that practice this see about a 33% increase in focus and performance.
I hope these tips help and I wish you the best of luck!

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i was silver 2. im getting matched with iron 4 players in bronze 1. :/ its hard to climb when your adc and jungle are always shitting the bed. i had one game where yes i did poorly. my whole team lost lane.. and they all blamed me.. not sure how i lost top mid and jungle for you guys.. end of the game.. i have 8k damage which was the most on my team ironically. its truly hard to get out of bronze.

> [{quoted}](name=Wilma Diccfit,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bEZELuJ7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-05T02:27:19.484+0000)
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> i was silver 2. im getting matched with iron 4 players in bronze 1. :/ its hard to climb when your adc and jungle are always shitting the bed. i had one game where yes i did poorly. my whole team lost lane.. and they all blamed me.. not sure how i lost top mid and jungle for you guys.. end of the game.. i have 8k damage which was the most on my team ironically. its truly hard to get out of bronze.
Get a duo makes it not just easier but way more enjoyable.