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What is your favorite version of the moors?

This isn't about players, kins, or tribes, just the physical manifestation of the moors.

For me it's the old SoA version. Hot Spots instead of Outposts, cleaning and poisoning the Hoardale actually did something, EC and OC had no walls.

I never cared for the MoM version with Outposts and semi-walled EC and OC.

Today's version just sucks. Every fight turns into a back door camp, I'd rather have the EC/STAB shuffle than that. Auto flipping keeps is a good idea in theory, but it seems rather random. I've seen TR flip 3 times in 15 minutes without enough Creeps and Freeps to flip it once. I do like that you have to kill all 3 NPC's within a certain time period or they respawn. The back door idea might be okay if they were locked on both sides if you didn't own it.

Thoughts?

[center][color=red]Now roaming the earth searching for a fun, interesting game.......again.[/color][/center]

I know PvP since RoI time, so can't say how it was before.
I really hate autoflips.
EC/OC/TABs fights were more entertaining than backdoor boredom.

I like the idea of keeps and delv bosses giving serious buffs to infamy. They should give something. Thats one of two reasons I can think of for keeps to exists. Other is increasing defence abilities.
In latter npcs should be much stronger on both sides.

If keeps give infamy buffs, OPS should be connected to keeps: keep is blue, OP is automatically changed to red. So the winning side would be interested in taking keeps for major infamy buff (or will get close to none, thats how I imagine it should work), but it will leave loosing side with mastery buffs. Taking OP by winning side might 'turn off' buff for some, short, time. Or just get rid off npcs that losing side might use for protection.

I like where new OPS are (kinda), and also some bridges that connect places that were not connected (IOP, though it is way to close to rez). IOP and ROP should be moved a little further from rezs.

I feel like npcs should be much stronger (dps, mitigations and resistance) but cause much less cc (with possible exception of CG/tyrants, they should be much stronger than now, so it will take a little longer than 1 min for unskilled group to capture a keep).

OC/EC should not be death traps (by making npcs way stronger, jumping down the walls possible, and maybe giving some small speed debuffs for invaders).

I feel like quests in general should be changed, so they will have some impact on game (who cares nowdays to gather 75 feathers and send spider to LC? supporting keeps with blades/oil/ore/arrows changes nothing, additional spider npcs at LC are just additional guardians' heals, there are no more relics in groth and hh, so killing npcs there helps noone, killing trees is so pointless now, Goldie and Warg are no more threat and very little help for those who wants to retake tr/lugz, as is An).

SoA was the best. MoM was an extension to SoA.....for those who wanted to hold on to the best pvp this game will ever see.

SoA made Lotro PvP
MoM held on
SoM was the end of old school. Second Age of lotro pvp maybe?
OD expansion (whatever it's called) wasn't too bad.
RoI was the end to the second age of lotro pvp.
RoR is the third age, and the worst pvp I've seen in an mmo.
Not sure what other expansions have came out. Maybe someone could fill me in eh?

To sum it up: Great. Decent. Not good. Bad (in chronological order).

Haven't seen past that really. I don't care too. I'm sure everyone knows that this games direction has nothing to do with pvp anymore.

Overall. SOA/MoM
Bring back old EC/OC, with walls - to provide Anirien and his alts with shelter
Make stab/wtab flip-able
Take away buffs given by OPs, it only gives lesser players incentive an to PvE. Then replace OPs with hotspots
Return rez circles to original positions
Back doors that only work one way for whomever owns the keep
Quests that don't give inf/renown
Remove or completely overhaul the delving
Drastically increase the potency of war-band maneuvers or remove them

Moria was my favorite by far...Mirkwood wasnt bad either. Soa was fun but i didnt start until book 13 so i didnt really know what i was doing. I miss ec/stab fights too so much wrong with pvp nowadays...

Mort's opinion

Personally I liked the EC, TA shuffle. At least you knew what you were in for and where the action was. I agree with previous posters that the NPC's need to be more challenging. Now they are just annoying and don't really do any real damage. At least rank them up to 95 and make pulling them into the battle actually have an impact. An idea might be to have a roaming warbands running around that would require at least three to kill. I like the idea of the quests doing something. Like the "oil's up" quest. Maybe some more like that. Anyways just some thought. See you all out there.

I liked the ec/stab fights even when i was getting owned by the BB raids.

I believe it's not that it's horrible now because of the actual moors. It's just that creeps/freeps now in day SUCK. I remember when LP/BDC would play and 2 v 6 a group with no problem even if they died. You don't see that anymore. Now its just Maddeye logs now and a 24man craid is made to fight 5 or just to take an OP. You have noob champs like Keeblerain who just goes behind the raid to shot a bow at all the creeps. BOTH sides PvE during prime time. You have the craid taking lugz while the freeps are taking DG relic. Mainly the entire prime time of fighting is like that. You have both raids PvEing until they PvE in the same place and that is when the fighting starts. You have a Craid tanking GV againts 4 - 6 freeps and all you see in OOC on creepside is cursing and insulting how pathetic freeps are because they wont fight 6 healers with 10 DPSers with only 5 freeps. Sometimes there are 10 healers and 6 DPSers. Creeps wont fight in grams camp because they think ever single minny, RK, and Captain is healing. Yet you have the same that cant tell a healing mini from a dps one, complaining that there is to many healing classes make the Craid to camp GV with more healers than freeps.

You have stupid Fraid leaders that zerg a keep with creeps having x2 - x3 their numbers and wipe without getting any kills. Then you suddenly see them doing it again and again. You also have the creeps like Sheloob who NEVER leaves a keep unless its a GV camp and only camps it when there is a craid. Yet he still does like Keeblerain (sit in the back tag everything). The only difference is that he complains and whines about freeps and how much they suck and logs in TR as soon as freeps push back. (I bet 10g you have all seen him do it more than 10 times now.)

The other day creeps where crying in OOC that freeps are way OP than creeps yet I did a 2 v 6 with a friend of mine and won. Just because you are used to Craids and don't know how to play your class because of it, doesn't mean the other side is OP it just means you suck! You probably are as good as I am on my champ or LM in the moors.

Last and not least the fact that lower lvl toons now get jumped to 95 also plays a big role. Half a fraid is full of low lvls because the Fraid leaders allow them to be in a raid and leech of. Example: Ketten (the guard) who devs hit for 300dmg. Most creeps dont even put attention to him because the INC moral regen heals you more than what he hits you for.

As long as you have sucky players like Sheloob, low lvl players, and Keeblerain the moors will always suck. It's not that the moors sucks now because of the new layout or buffs, but that the moors suck because there are no leaders. There are not even Mediocre leaders left in the moors. All the good players have either left or transferred and we are stuck with Noobs facerolling leaders who can't do anything without some one holding their hand.

Also you have stupid people like the 5 boxer warg and the 2 boxing reaver who completely ruin the moors. This is not counting idiots that insult other people saying they cheat because they can't play their classes correctly or don't know about the other classes enough or the game. *hint*hint*didthathurt* Our representative to the Player Council.

Aslong as you see in both creep and freep OOC some one coming in and the first thing they say is, "Is there a group out." The moors has no hope.

I liked the ec/stab fights even when i was getting owned by the BB raids.

I've no idea whether you've changed your play in the last 2 years, but have you even considered how you played in the past compared to what you're complaining about now?

[center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
[center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

I've no idea whether you've changed your play in the last 2 years, but have you even considered how you played in the past compared to what you're complaining about now?

It is pretty bad now Geirs.. There are a number of creeps that will just log in and ask if there are any open groups as early as noon (est) just because they are almost unable to leave grams without being in a group. There is also the relentless, I play an OP class, I must be good and nobody else that can't kill me obviously does not know how to play their class. Yes, I am QQing about the Creeps, but not soley about the balance, mainly their stupidity and stubbornness to accept current situtations - I have consistently agreed that while soloing and 1v1 does favour the creeps, I think that the group vs group is fairly balanced. This is why I'll keep coming out to healbot to the max on my mini and not even bother trying to solo on RK.

But, it's not all about the creeps (I'm somewhat reluctant to log in creepside). The freeps aren't without their flaws. I recall an amusing statement somebody said in glff the other day, they were saying that because there were even numbers in the moors, creeps would win. Not even going to comment on that. The same can be said for many, many freeps that give the argument that just because creeps are zerging, it gives them the right to sit behind one-shotters. Yes, it sucks, but unless you help to contribute instead of whining about how OP they are which we've all heard before, they're not going anywhere.

A thing which people need to realise is that both sides will happily farm without any disregard to the other side. There are very few players, let alone leaders that will consider the PvE effect on the opposite side.

It is pretty bad now Geirs.. There are a number of creeps that will just log in and ask if there are any open groups as early as noon (est) just because they are almost unable to leave grams without being in a group. There is also the relentless, I play an OP class, I must be good and nobody else that can't kill me obviously does not know how to play their class. Yes, I am QQing about the Creeps, but not soley about the balance, mainly their stupidity and stubbornness to accept current situtations - I have consistently agreed that while soloing and 1v1 does favour the creeps, I think that the group vs group is fairly balanced. This is why I'll keep coming out to healbot to the max on my mini and not even bother trying to solo on RK.

Everything right, but you by accident wrote 'creepside', while there should be writen 'freepside'.
I don't play much nowdays. But when I log on after work (noon time for USA east cost) I see no freeps and few bored creeps pveing. Ocassionaly grouping to get keep or delving buff.
Even if I stay very long (long past midnight for me) for rush hours, I rarely see creeps grouping. And if yes, mostly lowbies, in 2-3 men groups. I can't think when last I saw creep raid when it was not needed (creeps losing significantly).
As for creeps, I see one major problem- chosing to play most OP class atm. So now there are to many defilers...but it is not as bad as few weeks ago- maybe people are getting bored with playing this class.

I'm much more terrified with new freeps coming to the moors. They lack spirit... Either come and sit at gv steps even when outnumbering creeps... Or going 1-2 times, beeing wiped (not because of numbers, but lack of skill) and logging off without any will to win, learn, challenge, try different setup.

Also there is need for leaders, especially on freepside. Group of freeps, with focused fire, heals and buffs can do like 2-3 times more than few ungrouped freeps. But still, even when loosing badly, most freeps won't group up and try to learn how to group fight.

And (playing since RoI time) action is best than ever on this server, just to many people seems like not willing to learn anything.

Anyways besides all of this I find this thread funny. It's funny because Butta is the one that made it and hes the one who has been ruinning the moors recently. If Madeye doesn't have a 24man raid out Butta is the one who makes it just to roll 10 freeps. Butta is the one that can't even let keeps autoflip and puts freevers in them to keep the 20% renown gain, revs, and NPCs. Puts a freever in the Delv Bosses area to keep them on creep watch. Seems a little hypocrite from his part saying he likes the old version when hes the one abusing the system in this one. #justsaying

It was a nice fight today in GV. Even though we couldn't leave one shots. It's good to hear Butta ranting when we CCed the *** out of him and killed him over and over again to CJ him.

Anyways besides all of this I find this thread funny. It's funny because Butta is the one that made it and hes the one who has been ruinning the moors recently.

Hold your horses cowboy. Do you thing Gladgilrian is Butta?

[center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
[center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

More importantly, is Butta back? Time to level a freep on Nimrodel if so.

Yeah for some reason I confused bulimia with Butta...who's spider is Eighteye....I gotta lay off the durgz....but yeah if he came back that might inspire me for some much needed insurrection That and good old bushy..I miss fighting against his vengeful spirit...there's no sport left...turbine killed the option for that...regardless of numbers present...so I left....but man do I miss cj'ing Butta...his tears were so sweet....such......sustenance. ...