The worst thing about the V1...

I love the little V1. Took a two week trip with a couple of them recently and just loved shooting with them. One had the good old 18.5mm mounted on it, the other had the superb 6.7-13mm mounted.

But the thing that drives me nuts about the V1 is the incredibly slow reaction time for exposure adjustment when the light changes. I mean, they made this thing lightning fast when it comes to shutter lag (there is none) and autofocus speed (it is quick!). But if the camera is pointed at the ground as I am walking around, then I raise the camera to my eye to shoot, I have to wait 1-3 seconds for the metering to stabilize. I own three V1 bodies (all bought at firesale prices, and one is being kept in the bag as a spare) and all three do this...maddening!!

You're right! After reading your post, I went outside and made some snaps of the same scene, rotating briskly from bright scene to darker scene and compared a "delayed" shot to a "quick" one. Totally different exposure!

Previously, I'd wrongly attributed it to the EVF merely adjusting and didn't connect it with actual exposure. But in fact, the V1 takes a noticeably longer time to adjust exposure than it does to focus in good light.

However, the actual image in the EVF does not exactly correlate to the overall image brightness of the actual photo once it "settles down". In other words, unlike, say, a Panny G6, one can +/- exposure up to 3 stops each way with no change in EVF brightness on the V1. With the Panny, one can very accurately judge the finished exposure from the EVF display, especially when a live histogram is displayed in one corner of the EVF, since the display lightens or darkens according to exposure adjustments. Very helpful, and something the V3 should definitely have...when, and if, it is ever announced.

I love the little V1. Took a two week trip with a couple of them recently and just loved shooting with them. One had the good old 18.5mm mounted on it, the other had the superb 6.7-13mm mounted.

But the thing that drives me nuts about the V1 is the incredibly slow reaction time for exposure adjustment when the light changes. I mean, they made this thing lightning fast when it comes to shutter lag (there is none) and autofocus speed (it is quick!). But if the camera is pointed at the ground as I am walking around, then I raise the camera to my eye to shoot, I have to wait 1-3 seconds for the metering to stabilize. I own three V1 bodies (all bought at firesale prices, and one is being kept in the bag as a spare) and all three do this...maddening!!

This is true, although in my experience the maximum meter lag time is closer to 2 seconds when scene brightness changes abruptly. Apparently Nikon designed in this metering lag on purpose to avoid abrupt changes of exposure when in the video mode. I would have preferred Nikon had not done this, but being mindful of this limitation and allowing the metering time to settle in with abrupt changes in lighting happen, I have not had any over or under exposures because of it. One thing that helps reduce meter lag induced over or under exposure is to use a neck or hand strap that keeps the camera pointed horizontally, and not vertically at the sky or the ground.

You're right! After reading your post, I went outside and made some snaps of the same scene, rotating briskly from bright scene to darker scene and compared a "delayed" shot to a "quick" one. Totally different exposure!

Previously, I'd wrongly attributed it to the EVF merely adjusting and didn't connect it with actual exposure. But in fact, the V1 takes a noticeably longer time to adjust exposure than it does to focus in good light.

However, the actual image in the EVF does not exactly correlate to the overall image brightness of the actual photo once it "settles down". In other words, unlike, say, a Panny G6, one can +/- exposure up to 3 stops each way with no change in EVF brightness on the V1. With the Panny, one can very accurately judge the finished exposure from the EVF display, especially when a live histogram is displayed in one corner of the EVF, since the display lightens or darkens according to exposure adjustments. Very helpful, and something the V3 should definitely have...when, and if, it is ever announced.

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Warren

That "Auto Gain" in EVF brightness is my worst gripe about the V1 (followed by lack of wireless flash commander). I HATE that you can't judge exposure by the EVF and there is no live histogram in the EVF. Im contemplating a move to M4/3 specifically to get the WYSIWYG viewfinder amongst many other upgrades (to the GX7)

I love the little V1. Took a two week trip with a couple of them recently and just loved shooting with them. One had the good old 18.5mm mounted on it, the other had the superb 6.7-13mm mounted.

But the thing that drives me nuts about the V1 is the incredibly slow reaction time for exposure adjustment when the light changes. I mean, they made this thing lightning fast when it comes to shutter lag (there is none) and autofocus speed (it is quick!). But if the camera is pointed at the ground as I am walking around, then I raise the camera to my eye to shoot, I have to wait 1-3 seconds for the metering to stabilize. I own three V1 bodies (all bought at firesale prices, and one is being kept in the bag as a spare) and all three do this...maddening!!

Set the "Shutter button AE lock" item to OFF. If it is OFF you don't have to wait, the camera adjusts the exposure while focusing. I made a test a while back, compared the V1, the Nikon D300s and an Olympus SW850. They all require the same time, except that the V1 has that Shutter button lock feature. Once disabled it becomes as fast as any other camera.

You're right! After reading your post, I went outside and made some snaps of the same scene, rotating briskly from bright scene to darker scene and compared a "delayed" shot to a "quick" one. Totally different exposure!

Previously, I'd wrongly attributed it to the EVF merely adjusting and didn't connect it with actual exposure. But in fact, the V1 takes a noticeably longer time to adjust exposure than it does to focus in good light.

However, the actual image in the EVF does not exactly correlate to the overall image brightness of the actual photo once it "settles down". In other words, unlike, say, a Panny G6, one can +/- exposure up to 3 stops each way with no change in EVF brightness on the V1. With the Panny, one can very accurately judge the finished exposure from the EVF display, especially when a live histogram is displayed in one corner of the EVF, since the display lightens or darkens according to exposure adjustments. Very helpful, and something the V3 should definitely have...when, and if, it is ever announced.

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Warren

That "Auto Gain" in EVF brightness is my worst gripe about the V1 (followed by lack of wireless flash commander). I HATE that you can't judge exposure by the EVF and there is no live histogram in the EVF. Im contemplating a move to M4/3 specifically to get the WYSIWYG viewfinder amongst many other upgrades (to the GX7)

...and I love the auto gain. I hate that the D800 does not have it, which makes the usability of the live view very limiting, especially in low light, or if I intend to use manual exposure and flash. I don't want to use the LV or the EVF for judging exposure, I want to use it as a view finder to compose my image. In fact, that's one serious reason why I dislike other mirrorless.

I love the little V1. Took a two week trip with a couple of them recently and just loved shooting with them. One had the good old 18.5mm mounted on it, the other had the superb 6.7-13mm mounted.

But the thing that drives me nuts about the V1 is the incredibly slow reaction time for exposure adjustment when the light changes. I mean, they made this thing lightning fast when it comes to shutter lag (there is none) and autofocus speed (it is quick!). But if the camera is pointed at the ground as I am walking around, then I raise the camera to my eye to shoot, I have to wait 1-3 seconds for the metering to stabilize. I own three V1 bodies (all bought at firesale prices, and one is being kept in the bag as a spare) and all three do this...maddening!!

Set the "Shutter button AE lock" item to OFF. If it is OFF you don't have to wait, the camera adjusts the exposure while focusing. I made a test a while back, compared the V1, the Nikon D300s and an Olympus SW850. They all require the same time, except that the V1 has that Shutter button lock feature. Once disabled it becomes as fast as any other camera.

That works to a point but if the camera is aimed at a dark scene and you switch quickly to a bright scene (or vise-versa) and immediately snap a shot the camera will focus that fast but the shot will be overexposed (or underexposed). I just tried it with both of my V1s with the same result. In my real world shooting this rarely is a problem however, but I can see how it could be for others in circumstances where they are shooting action that moves from light to dark or the other way 'round.

I love the little V1. Took a two week trip with a couple of them recently and just loved shooting with them. One had the good old 18.5mm mounted on it, the other had the superb 6.7-13mm mounted.

But the thing that drives me nuts about the V1 is the incredibly slow reaction time for exposure adjustment when the light changes. I mean, they made this thing lightning fast when it comes to shutter lag (there is none) and autofocus speed (it is quick!). But if the camera is pointed at the ground as I am walking around, then I raise the camera to my eye to shoot, I have to wait 1-3 seconds for the metering to stabilize. I own three V1 bodies (all bought at firesale prices, and one is being kept in the bag as a spare) and all three do this...maddening!!

Set the "Shutter button AE lock" item to OFF. If it is OFF you don't have to wait, the camera adjusts the exposure while focusing. I made a test a while back, compared the V1, the Nikon D300s and an Olympus SW850. They all require the same time, except that the V1 has that Shutter button lock feature. Once disabled it becomes as fast as any other camera.

That works to a point but if the camera is aimed at a dark scene and you switch quickly to a bright scene (or vise-versa) and immediately snap a shot the camera will focus that fast but the shot will be overexposed (or underexposed). I just tried it with both of my V1s with the same result. In my real world shooting this rarely is a problem however, but I can see how it could be for others in circumstances where they are shooting action that moves from light to dark or the other way 'round.

This is really a non-issue. I have also just done a quick test again, and the camera takes between 1 and 3 seconds, but that includes lifting the camera, aiming and focusing as well, and in my test it takes exactly the same time even in good light, or in equally bad light. Remember that focusing is slower in bad light, which is why it takes longer in that case. But I think one mistake some people are doing is that they wait for the display... The thing is, if you wait for the display to readjust the bias for the new situation then you are losing time. The V1 display is not showing the real exposure anyway, it has display auto bias, so there is no reason for waiting if you are in a hurry. Just aim and press the shutter release as soon as the composition is right. If you eliminate the AF delay and don't care for accurate focus, just the exposure, then the V1 takes less than one second to adjust the exposure from one end to the other, going from 1/4000s ISO 100 f/5.6 to 1/15s ISO3200 f/5.6, which is pretty fast.

Anyway, like I said, when I compared the V1 with those other cameras I got the same results for all of them. I have not yet compared with the D800, but I am pretty sure that even that camera needs time for meter adjustments.

Odd. I didn't even realize it's doing this. Well I noticed it's very slow at display adjustment when I tested my manual C-mount lens, but I thought it's just the display.

Well, the fact I didn't notice it in other situations means I'm not using V1 in very demanding ways. Because I remember how I played around with the D200's quick meter reaction.

Well, the V1 is a casual camera, what else can I say.

olyflyer wrote:

Set the "Shutter button AE lock" item to OFF. If it is OFF you don't have to wait, the camera adjusts the exposure while focusing.

That's not the point, the camera should be able to meter exposure by itself while the shutter button is not held down.

And no, AE lock doesn't make a difference in this (I have it OFF).

They all require the same time, except that the V1 has that Shutter button lock feature. Once disabled it becomes as fast as any other camera.

No way. Like I wrote above, I can point my D200 from bright light to complete darkness and the meter adjusts immediately. With V1 you need to wait.

olyflyer wrote:

...and I love the auto gain.

It should be selectable as well as other EVF-related things like image preview. I for one would love a EVF which behaves just like a DSLR OVF. I.e. no menus or preview, no autogain and always on, or at least instant-on.

But I think one mistake some people are doing is that they wait for the display... The thing is, if you wait for the display to readjust the bias for the new situation then you are losing time.

I just tried it. In my room, when I point V1 at my desk, it's 1/30 at ISO 3200. When I point it at the lightbulb, it's 1/125 at ISO 200. The camera indeed takes 3 seconds to set the proper exposure after I point it to the other direction. And if I snap a picture, it takes the image at incorrect exposure.

I now tried my D200, D600 and Samsung EX1 and they all react immediately, although the D200's matrix metering appears to be more sensitive so the shutter speed changes a lot as I move around the composition with the lightbulb. But pointing to the dark changes the exposure instantaneously.

This might be an issue for photographers who shoot continuous action, because V1 is also slow to set the exposure in continuous shooting. If you follow some action from a brighter to darker area, you may end up with under- and overexposed pictures.

I'm not particularly bothered by this in the case of V1 (which is why I didn't realize it until now) but it's definitely one of those things to be aware of.

You're right! After reading your post, I went outside and made some snaps of the same scene, rotating briskly from bright scene to darker scene and compared a "delayed" shot to a "quick" one. Totally different exposure!

Previously, I'd wrongly attributed it to the EVF merely adjusting and didn't connect it with actual exposure. But in fact, the V1 takes a noticeably longer time to adjust exposure than it does to focus in good light.

However, the actual image in the EVF does not exactly correlate to the overall image brightness of the actual photo once it "settles down". In other words, unlike, say, a Panny G6, one can +/- exposure up to 3 stops each way with no change in EVF brightness on the V1. With the Panny, one can very accurately judge the finished exposure from the EVF display, especially when a live histogram is displayed in one corner of the EVF, since the display lightens or darkens according to exposure adjustments. Very helpful, and something the V3 should definitely have...when, and if, it is ever announced.

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Warren

That "Auto Gain" in EVF brightness is my worst gripe about the V1 (followed by lack of wireless flash commander). I HATE that you can't judge exposure by the EVF and there is no live histogram in the EVF. Im contemplating a move to M4/3 specifically to get the WYSIWYG viewfinder amongst many other upgrades (to the GX7)

...and I love the auto gain. I hate that the D800 does not have it, which makes the usability of the live view very limiting, especially in low light, or if I intend to use manual exposure and flash. I don't want to use the LV or the EVF for judging exposure, I want to use it as a view finder to compose my image. In fact, that's one serious reason why I dislike other mirrorless.

Quite possible to include an "auto-gain" feature which engages at low light levels, or, which can be invoked when needed. My G6 "auto gains" in very dim light, though with a half-press on the shutter it dims to give a preview of how the actual exposure will appear for about 1 second. Couple it with the live histogram in the EVF and it works wonderfully. One must wonder, "How can Nikon not include this in $2800 cameras when Panasonic can do it in a budget priced m4/3 camera at less than 20% of the D800's price?" (Or, in the N1 system??)

I love the little V1. Took a two week trip with a couple of them recently and just loved shooting with them. One had the good old 18.5mm mounted on it, the other had the superb 6.7-13mm mounted.

But the thing that drives me nuts about the V1 is the incredibly slow reaction time for exposure adjustment when the light changes. I mean, they made this thing lightning fast when it comes to shutter lag (there is none) and autofocus speed (it is quick!). But if the camera is pointed at the ground as I am walking around, then I raise the camera to my eye to shoot, I have to wait 1-3 seconds for the metering to stabilize. I own three V1 bodies (all bought at firesale prices, and one is being kept in the bag as a spare) and all three do this...maddening!!

Set the "Shutter button AE lock" item to OFF. If it is OFF you don't have to wait, the camera adjusts the exposure while focusing. I made a test a while back, compared the V1, the Nikon D300s and an Olympus SW850. They all require the same time, except that the V1 has that Shutter button lock feature. Once disabled it becomes as fast as any other camera.

That works to a point but if the camera is aimed at a dark scene and you switch quickly to a bright scene (or vise-versa) and immediately snap a shot the camera will focus that fast but the shot will be overexposed (or underexposed). I just tried it with both of my V1s with the same result. In my real world shooting this rarely is a problem however, but I can see how it could be for others in circumstances where they are shooting action that moves from light to dark or the other way 'round.

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Regards, PaulLili's Dad

The thought occurred to me, could this characteristic be endemic to the V1's design and a reason why there's instant image review which can't be turned off and not altered by firmware update?

The V2 EVF does not have this "feature". Could any V2 owners who may read this thread test their cameras and post feedback? If they don't have this delay, it could be one more feather in the V2's cap for some people who want/need/appreciate faster EVF and exposure response.

Yes, the V2 has the same issue - and this has ruined several shots for me. So if you pull up the camera and think you should be able to shoot, you better wait a tiny moment to allow for the V2 to determine the correct exposure.

Apart from that, there are other "issues" related to optimal speed with the V2, such as the delay caused by switching between the EVF and the display or waking up from sleep. IMHO, image review should also be switched off for fastest possible operation.

Once the V2 is ready from waking up, focusing per se is really fast.

Most of the speed-related issues are not a problem as long as you can leisurely compose your image and then press the shutter. But if you expect instant reaction under all circumstances, you may run into problems.

But I think one mistake some people are doing is that they wait for the display... The thing is, if you wait for the display to readjust the bias for the new situation then you are losing time.

I just tried it. In my room, when I point V1 at my desk, it's 1/30 at ISO 3200. When I point it at the lightbulb, it's 1/125 at ISO 200. The camera indeed takes 3 seconds to set the proper exposure after I point it to the other direction. And if I snap a picture, it takes the image at incorrect exposure.

But I bet you have the AF on... Yes, with AF it takes 2-3 seconds, but in any case, I have not been able to take incorrectly exposed image, doing exactly the same test, only in my test when I aimed at the light bulb it gave me 1/4000s and ISO100, aimed at some books gave me 1/15s and ISO3200.

I now tried my D200, D600 and Samsung EX1 and they all react immediately, although the D200's matrix metering appears to be more sensitive so the shutter speed changes a lot as I move around the composition with the lightbulb. But pointing to the dark changes the exposure instantaneously.

I only know that the D300s required the same time as the V1 in my tests before. Now I don't have the d300s any more so I can't repeat the test. The V1 needs 1 second to get the exposure right if you don't wait for the display. The display takes a bit more time.

This might be an issue for photographers who shoot continuous action, because V1 is also slow to set the exposure in continuous shooting. If you follow some action from a brighter to darker area, you may end up with under- and overexposed pictures.

I'm not particularly bothered by this in the case of V1 (which is why I didn't realize it until now) but it's definitely one of those things to be aware of.

Well yea, if you're not using AF, you're probably not particularly concerned about speed anyway.

However, I now tried how the camera behaves in MF. It meters differently. Where with AF it gives me 1/125 when pointed at the lightbulb, with MF it measures 1/50 and therefore overexposes. So yea on one hand it changes the meter a bit faster but also incorrectly.

I'd even say the camera doesn't even use matrix metering in MF. That's what it looks like.

I only know that the D300s required the same time as the V1 in my tests before.

It may be the case that the D300 behaves similarly to D200, i.e. the metered exposure changes significantly as you move around (in my case, moving the composition of the lightbulb) so it may seem that it takes a while to adjust while it's just the case of the exposure meter 'jumping' a lot. The exposure should really be immediate with D300, while it's obviously not with V1.

> I don't think this is an issue in real life.

Probably not often, but it definitely can be for some situations, as some people here have already commented. I'm pretty sure I'd encounter it as well if I'd be using the V1 in the same way as I tend to use my DSLRs. Especially with long lenses it's pretty easy to get very varying shutter speeds as you follow some object.

Also a side effect of this behavior is what I've already seen when I was trying my c-mount lens. The display takes a long time to readjust the exposure/brightness after taking every shot. I thought it's just the display behavior but apparently it's actually the metering itself.

But I think one mistake some people are doing is that they wait for the display... The thing is, if you wait for the display to readjust the bias for the new situation then you are losing time.

I just tried it. In my room, when I point V1 at my desk, it's 1/30 at ISO 3200. When I point it at the lightbulb, it's 1/125 at ISO 200. The camera indeed takes 3 seconds to set the proper exposure after I point it to the other direction. And if I snap a picture, it takes the image at incorrect exposure.

But I bet you have the AF on... Yes, with AF it takes 2-3 seconds, but in any case, I have not been able to take incorrectly exposed image, doing exactly the same test, only in my test when I aimed at the light bulb it gave me 1/4000s and ISO100, aimed at some books gave me 1/15s and ISO3200.

I now tried my D200, D600 and Samsung EX1 and they all react immediately, although the D200's matrix metering appears to be more sensitive so the shutter speed changes a lot as I move around the composition with the lightbulb. But pointing to the dark changes the exposure instantaneously.

I only know that the D300s required the same time as the V1 in my tests before. Now I don't have the d300s any more so I can't repeat the test. The V1 needs 1 second to get the exposure right if you don't wait for the display. The display takes a bit more time.

This might be an issue for photographers who shoot continuous action, because V1 is also slow to set the exposure in continuous shooting. If you follow some action from a brighter to darker area, you may end up with under- and overexposed pictures.

I'm not particularly bothered by this in the case of V1 (which is why I didn't realize it until now) but it's definitely one of those things to be aware of.

I don't think this is an issue in real life.

This morning I aimed the camera at a wall in a normally lit room and then aimed at a window and shot. The resulting shot was overexposed. When I repeated this but waited 2 seconds, the shot was properly exposed. I did the reverse aiming at the window first and then at the wall which resulted in under exposure. I repeated this several times with the same result. There is definitely a lag in metering and I definitely have AE release set to off.

Well yea, if you're not using AF, you're probably not particularly concerned about speed anyway.

However, I now tried how the camera behaves in MF. It meters differently. Where with AF it gives me 1/125 when pointed at the lightbulb, with MF it measures 1/50 and therefore overexposes. So yea on one hand it changes the meter a bit faster but also incorrectly.

I'd even say the camera doesn't even use matrix metering in MF. That's what it looks like.

Something must be wrong with your camera, because mine does not behave like that.

Anyway, another thing which I forgot yesterday was the VR. The VR slows the focus down, especially if you quickly move the camera like you have to do in this situation. I had mine on yesterday, which extends the time.

I only know that the D300s required the same time as the V1 in my tests before.

It may be the case that the D300 behaves similarly to D200, i.e. the metered exposure changes significantly as you move around (in my case, moving the composition of the lightbulb) so it may seem that it takes a while to adjust while it's just the case of the exposure meter 'jumping' a lot. The exposure should really be immediate with D300, while it's obviously not with V1.

Another thing which causes delay is the preview, which can not be switched off completely, and even if you quickly half press the shutter release it still steals some time and causes unnecessary lag. The D200 and the D300/D300s can switch it off and is also faster in killing the preview when you press the shutter release.

I don't think this is an issue in real life.

Probably not often, but it definitely can be for some situations, as some people here have already commented. I'm pretty sure I'd encounter it as well if I'd be using the V1 in the same way as I tend to use my DSLRs. Especially with long lenses it's pretty easy to get very varying shutter speeds as you follow some object.

It's not a DSLR. Period. Never the less it has strengths even over some, if not all, professional DSLRs, but of course it has weaknesses also. It is however not made for replacing a DSLR in general, and if you want DSLR behavior than you must buy a DSLR.

Never the less, I must yet see a situation where 2 second delay between extremely high exposure differences can cause a problem in real life. This is a typical non-issue created by the Internet. Of course, I can "design" a situation where this can be a problem, but please show me a real image which was missed or describe a situation which is probable. Even if I have to drag my camera quickly out of the bag and have to take an image of something brightly lit which might give me a million dollars the time it takes to lift the camera to my eye is longer than two seconds, so no, I don't buy this as a problem. The only problem is if the user has set the "Shutter button AE lock" item to ON. That can really cause missed shots and a lot of headache because the delay will be between 9 and as much as 13 seconds.

Also a side effect of this behavior is what I've already seen when I was trying my c-mount lens. The display takes a long time to readjust the exposure/brightness after taking every shot. I thought it's just the display behavior but apparently it's actually the metering itself.

Once again, you can ignore the display. If you want a quicker adjust you must do two things.

Set "Shutter button AE lock" item to OFF.

Half press the shutter once the composition is about right. Remember that you may need to release again once you have the final composition if the AF point is not on the spot you want to have in focus.

...but if you just press the shutter release all the way the camera will not expose the image before the metering is done. The display may look over or underexposed, but the image will be right. That's at least the way my camera behaves when I have the "Shutter button AE lock" item set to OFF.