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Re: Flacco Closing in on 4,000 yards.

Well I guess it's nice, but here are the things that are important to me in terms of the QB position.

Minimum amount of turnovers
TD's
Completion %
Avoiding sacks where you can
Winning games
4th quarter performance
Play off wins
Ultimately- SB rings

Joe has proven he can excel in all of these areas, but it needs to be more consistent if he ever wants to be considered/paid like a top 5 QB in this league. He certainly has the wins, and even play off wins, a SB would really put him in the conversation this year.

And on the last point, in the play offs Joe has kind of rode his defense in all but two games where had had a great game @KC and @NE.

So, how do you evaluate a situation where Peyton Manning rides his defense to a Super Bowl, following multiple subpar playoff performances (multiple picks vs. KC and Balt and not even scoring a TD against Baltimore), and how do you evaluate a player like Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, having more Super Bowl Championships than Manning?

Personally, I don't think you've been consistent in what you've considered qualifying criteria at the QB position.

"When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"

Re: Flacco Closing in on 4,000 yards.

Originally Posted by The Excellector

So, how do you evaluate a situation where Peyton Manning rides his defense to a Super Bowl, following multiple subpar playoff performances (multiple picks vs. KC and Balt and not even scoring a TD against Baltimore), and how do you evaluate a player like Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, having more Super Bowl Championships than Manning?

Personally, I don't think you've been consistent in what you've considered qualifying criteria at the QB position.

Peyton Manning was considered to be up there with Marino before his SB, being the best QB to never win a SB. You cannot in any sense put Flacco into that category. Anyway, Flacco hasn't won a SB yet, so you can't put him in the same sentence as Eli or Ben either right now. What good is winning play off games but never the big one?

Re: Flacco Closing in on 4,000 yards.

Originally Posted by The Excellector

So, how do you evaluate a situation where Peyton Manning rides his defense to a Super Bowl, following multiple subpar playoff performances (multiple picks vs. KC and Balt and not even scoring a TD against Baltimore), and how do you evaluate a player like Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, having more Super Bowl Championships than Manning?

Personally, I don't think you've been consistent in what you've considered qualifying criteria at the QB position.

Ben Roethlisberger getting credit for his first SB ring is also equally interesting when he damn near literally rode on the back of his running game to get there. Ben had one of the lowest pass attempt numbers in the league at 268, only had 2385 total passing yards, and only threw 17 TD's. He also only played 12 games. The running backs had almost as many TD's total than Ben did throwing. Basically they would get to the redzone and Bettis would be given the ball.

But hey, this is about Joe getting to 4,000 yards, which is something positive to take out of this crazy season.

Re: Flacco Closing in on 4,000 yards.

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

Ben Roethlisberger getting credit for his first SB ring is also equally interesting when he damn near literally rode on the back of his running game to get there. Ben had one of the lowest pass attempt numbers in the league at 268, only had 2385 total passing yards, and only threw 17 TD's. He also only played 12 games. The running backs had almost as many TD's total than Ben did throwing. Basically they would get to the redzone and Bettis would be given the ball.

But hey, this is about Joe getting to 4,000 yards, which is something positive to take out of this crazy season.

That was Bens second year in the league, what do you expect? Flacco was pretty much as restricted as Ben was in his first two years too. The Steelers had an amazing defense and a great running game, they won the SB off that, in spite of Ben. Ben has developed into an elite QB since then, it just happens that Flacco got unlucky last season and hasn't got a ring to show for it, there are no guarantees Flacco would have won that SB against the red hot Giants at the time either though.

Whether or not Joe develops into the QB Ben is today (the latest episodes notwithstanding), is still very much in the air right now though.

Re: Flacco Closing in on 4,000 yards.

That was Bens second year in the league, what do you expect? Flacco was pretty much as restricted as Ben was in his first two years too.

Based on what though? Flacco threw the ball over twice as much. Now, Ben played 4 less games, but that shouldn't amount to a difference of 231 pass attempts.

In fact, in Flacco's second year at 499 pass attempts he was 15th in pass attempts; ahead of guys like Philip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Matt Ryan, and Matthew Stafford.

If you want to dig even deeper, 2005 Roethlisberger was 22.9 attempts per game while 2009 Flacco was 31.2.

So I don't know how Flacco was just as restricted as Ben was in his first two years. The numbers don't bear that out.

The Steelers had an amazing defense and a great running game, they won the SB off that, in spite of Ben. Ben has developed into an elite QB since then, it just happens that Flacco got unlucky last season and hasn't got a ring to show for it, there are no guarantees Flacco would have won that SB against the red hot Giants at the time either though.

Whether or not Joe develops into the QB Ben is today (the latest episodes notwithstanding), is still very much in the air right now though.

I'd say Ben has been a consistently VERY GOOD QB. But again if you look at him statistically, he's been up and down every year. Now, some of that is injury. But still.

Re: Flacco Closing in on 4,000 yards.

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

And no, not "nearly every QB" does it. Right now only 8 out of the 32 starters are above 4,000 yards.

Brees
Stafford
Romo
Brady
Ryan
P. Manning
Luck
Palmer

Right now there are guys like Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and RG3 that aren't there. In fact, Flacco is ahead of all of them except Rodgers. The only two QB's right now ahead of Joe that aren't at 4,000 yet are Rodgers and Josh Freeman.

So maybe by the end of next week, Flacco would be in company of about 12-14 QB's with 4,000 yards or more. And considering the offensive sputtering we've had this year, especially on the road, Flacco getting to 4,000 would be a big deal and a pretty damn good stepping stone to future success.

And Luck is the interesting name on that list as a rookie who might
come here in the playoffs.

His father, Andrew Luck, was the QB for Houston in the very last game vs the Colts here before they moved to Indy.

Re: Flacco Closing in on 4,000 yards.

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Yes but this is Joe Flacco not Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, those guys are HOFers, and are considered to be the best QB's never to win a SB (that was what they said about Peyton before he won one), when has anyone even put Flacco up there for the "best QB to never win a SB" statement?

It's a good thing the NFL doesn't use your goalposts: they move too much. No one would ever get an extra point, let alone a field goal.

We're talking about your stated standard for judging Flacco, and that's performance in the playoffs. Both of them spent more years watching someone else kiss the Lombardi. Manning and Marino have three SB appearances and one trophy between them, and that's a lot of years of futility. The one NFL title- Manning's- came during perhaps his worst performance in the playoffs. A much-maligned defense caught lightening in a bottle, and so did the moribund Irsay running game. Manning's team won him that ring, not heroics from Peyton. For heroics, you have to look to little Eli scrambling like a scared rabbit and hitting a receiver with stickum on his helmet.

Which, I suppose, makes Little Brother better than Peyton. After all, Eli may blow chunks from time to time in the regular season, but the regular season is meaningless. In the playoffs, Eli seems to rise to the occasion, while Big Brother seems to have a black belt in choke-fu.

You could say the same of Marino. Up 21 points against the Chargers in 1994, Marino and the Dolphin offense sputtered while Natrone Means trampled the Killer Bees to take the divisional round playoff game. That was probably the closest Marino ever came to getting back to the Super Bowl. He actually had a decent running game and a stout defense to compliment his arm.