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Powered by Hydrogen ? Honda Clarity VS Tesla S

Powered by Hydrogen ? Honda Clarity VS Tesla S

Submitted by KWTESLA on January 11, 2019

What happens to a Honda Clarity in a very high speed crash similar to the tragic crash in Florida ? The Clarity has two hydrogen fuel tanks one under the read seat and larger one behind the rear seat. Which is safer the S or the Clarity ?

TeslaTap.com |
January 11, 2019

With only a few handfuls of Clarity Hydrogen cars sold, I'm not aware of any serious crashes yet. The general thought is if the Hydrogen tanks crack in a crash, the high pressure Hydrogen should dissipate very quickly (lighter than air). Yet to be tested in practice.

I'd vote for the Tesla to be safer, but have zero stats to back that up. Once there are 100,000 Hydrogen Claritis on the road, there should be a few scary crashes. That said, I'm convinced Hydrogen cars are mostly a boondoggle to make it look like the automaker is trying to go green. I expect they will quietly disappear in within 2 years, if not sooner. They make so little sense on so many levels.

Yodrak. |
January 11, 2019

Hydrogen is flammable in air at mixtures between 4 and 75% hydrogen by volume, and requires only 1/10 the energy input required to ignite gasoline. The explosive mixture is 18-59% hydrogen by volume.

If hydrogen is escaping from its container following an accident to cause the leak it's highly likely that there will be an ignition source somewhere that the leaking hydrogen is in the flammable range, if not the explosive range.

Xerogas |
January 11, 2019

@KWTESLA: Hindenburg

jordanrichard |
January 12, 2019

From what I have read, when hydrogen gas burns, the flame is invisible because it is so hot. The Hindenburg fire, in all fairness was said to have been exasperated by the coating that was painted on the skin of blimp (zepplin)

jimglas |
January 12, 2019

maybe they should change to helium, less chance of an explosion.

Yodrak. |
January 12, 2019

"maybe they should change to helium, less chance of an explosion."

For a blimp? Yes. No chance of an explosion with helium - helium does not burn or explode.

However, can't run a fuel cell on helium.

jimglas |
January 12, 2019

it was a snark

Yodrak. |
January 12, 2019

Ahh.

jimglas |
January 12, 2019

flagged

Yodrak. |
January 12, 2019

And flagged a second time.

RedShift |
January 24, 2019

Flagged. Get lost spammer

DTsea |
January 25, 2019

Jordanrichard just to be clear-
Hindenburg was a dirigible- a framework with gas bags inside and an aerodynamic cover. The gas bags can be deflated and inflated to control buoyancy withouta shape change to the envelope.

A blimp is a balloon- the cover is the gas bag- with an aerodynamic shape.

Blimps are very limited in size and payload capacity. Dirugibles can be very very large.

jordanrichard |
January 25, 2019

Ok.

carlk |
January 25, 2019

There is another difference between the Hindenburg and Hydrogen storage tank in FCV. The former is at around atmosphere pressure. The later several hundreds time that.

rxlawdude |
January 26, 2019

Another consideration for fuel cell cars is the EXPIRATION DATE of the tanks.

I recently had the opportunity to hear Dr. Franklin Chang Diaz speak at a small private gathering. If you do not know of Dr. Chang Diaz, he came from a non-wealthy family in Costa Rico, convinced his father to let him come to the US as a teen (on a one-way ticket), graduated high school in Connecticut living with relatives, secured a scholarship to UConn majoring in mechanical engineering, and went on to MIT getting his doctorate in plasma physics. In 1980 he was selected into the US astronaut corp, went on to fly seven missions on the space shuttle from 1989 - 2002 including helping with construction of the International Space Station, was inducted into the Astronaut Hall of Fame, and was director of the Advanced Space Propulsion lab at Johnson Space Center until he retired in 2005. Since his retirement from NASA he founded Ad Astra Rocket Company and continuing to develop advanced plasma rocket propulsion technology. Dr. Chang Diaz is also an active environmentalist, outspoken about climate change, and helped to develop and implement a fuel cell powered bus running in Costa Rico including design and construction of the hydrogen generation plant that is powered by solar such that the entire project is carbon neutral.

During the Q&A with Dr. Chang Diaz one of my friends asked him specifically about the viability of fuel cell versus battery for use in electric vehicles. His answer was very straight forward saying he sees battery continuing to be the prime player for personal use electric vehicles for quite some time. His rational is much of the duty cycle is out-and-back with recharging largely done at home overnight. Where he sees fuel cells having the advantage and being the path forward is for larger commercial vehicles such as cross-country trucking. This is due to the advantages that hydrogen has in terms of energy density and refueling speed. His view is that hydrogen from a safety perspective is really no different than any other fuel type of similar energy density.

Some of the discussion around hydrogen and safety concerns reminds me of the case discussion in one of my business law classes in MBA school about the introduction of natural gas as a home energy source. There was a very active push initially to prohibit adoption of natural gas with the claim that it was inherently unsafe. That argument ultimately did not prevail in the courts and today a large percentage of us have a direct natural gas feed into our homes without really questioning it. Yes, there are the occasional unfortunate accidents, but we think of plumping it into our homes no differently than an electric feed. I'm curious if in 50-60 years after I'm gone whether my children and their subsequent children may think of hydrogen being just as common place as I think of natural gas in our home today.

NoMoPetrol |
January 27, 2019

@p.c.mcavoy Nice synopsis of Dr. Diaz' credentials. If he had started his teenage journey in 2017, he would be turned away at the US point of entry as a potential drug dealer/serial rapist/social undesirable. Thank God he was born when he was and could become an American success story.

finman100 |
January 28, 2019

do hydrogen supporters really think people will get tired of fueling at home while sleeping?

The math and the physics don't pencil out. Ever. Math and physics are hard. Especially when you ignore them.

Darthamerica |
January 28, 2019

Hydrogen seems cool but right now I don't see any benefit vs using gasoline, diesel or electric. There aren't many places to refill and build out of infrastructure will take a long time. Unlike EVs you can't charge virtually anywhere... In fact this weekend I drove my Model S about 800 miles and at one point while out on a firing range I plugged into a 110V to get a little extra for the trip back. This allowed me to skip the Buellton SC and get to Oxnard.
When compared to gasoline or diesel it's even more inconvenient.

DTsea |
January 28, 2019

Hydrogen is silly.

Those trucks would have lower carbon footprint using the natural gas directly instead of making H2 out of it. And solar is far more efficiently used to charge a battery than to electrify water.

TranzNDance |
January 28, 2019

Solar panels help us to reduce energy dependency on particular entities. Not everyone can get solar panels, but if electric companies start charging too much, more people can do it, as well as some cities can switch to renewable electric generation, making it less profitable for the companies.