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Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by Deleted User

For me Storm Legion so far from what I've seen is up there with the likes of the Burning Crusade and the Mines of Moria . The new continents appear smaller than I'd hoped for . This is only a first impression though and they could be a lot larger than they appear by looking at the maps . If I am right though I would say they have more than doubled the game world size but certainly not trebled it like many people thought they would .

As I say though that is only a first impression and I could easily be wrong . I'm sure if I am some kind soul will correct me of my mistake .

I'm pretty sure the expansion map is bigger, a higher resolution. You can zoom out further, so it looks smaller. That's why people are comparing the maps and thinking what you are thinking. There is also more water around the new continents that add to this. The original games map had very little water space at the top and the bottom, which made the graphic smaller.

Basically, the map image, the graphic, for the old continent isn't the same size as the expansion's.. it's smaller.

I'm not 100% certain of that, but that's what I think is going on from looking at them.

I checked out the coordinates for each map ingame.

The original game map is 15000 x 8150

The expansions map is 20500 x 15300

So what I've said above is correct. The expansions continents are deceptively smaller on the map but they arn't really. The individual zones are also much bigger than the ones in the original, which is deceptive once the map is fully zoomed out. Most are actually more than double the size. When looking at the new continents, you are seeing them from further away.

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I'm curious tho...

People are saying that Storm Leggion map size is 200% bigger then the original game.. If that is true, then I have to ask something.. Since the game released in early 2011, assuming NONE of the expansion content was made prior to that, why did the game release with such as a small ass world? This will be interesting what Trion will do over the next 18 months.. People will be expecting the same output as the first expansion.. This might end up being comical.. It's like the running back that brags about rushing for 2,000 yards and recieving for another 1,000...... Guess what? Now you have to do that ever season.. Good Luck..

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The fact that you think hype is not a verb (as well as a noun) just shows hat you really dont have a strong grasp on the subject.

What are you talking about? The problem 'you' are having is that you think the verb and noun version mean the same thing. Which I've said they don't countless times. You can't even read english properly, let alone understand it.

Is dancing the same thing as dance? Does dance and to dance mean the same thing? You can say "hey you, dance" which is really another way of saying "Hey you, start dancing". You can also say "I'm studying dance". They do not mean the same thing.

You can be into dance without dancing just like you can have hype without hyping.

Hyping and Hype have negative connotations and you, not understanding english properly, think hype and hyping (whatever they really mean) mean the same thing as aggressive advertising.

The fact it's taken this many posts to try explain this to you is pretty embarrassing for you. You probably won't even get it after this.

So... I'll leave you with the definition of the 'noun' hype from dictionary.com so we can end this (HINT: I've underlined a certain word for you):

Do you see the word 'often' in there? Trion didn't exaggerate the games features in thier advertising for the game so it is not hyped. They told it like it is.

I really wish I'd just posted that definition from the start, then you might have understood it properly.

That's what you call a slam dunk. You may eat your hat now and can continue the rest of your days using the words hype and hyping properly.

I may have done a poor job of explaining it but, ultimately, your english is off mate.

But there cant be a dance without dancing. If nothing is dancing, there is no dance.

Of course the noun and verb dont necessarily mean the same thing. Dancing is performing a dance. Hyping is producing hype. You said that hype is not a verb and now are trying to backtrack on it to save face. And generally, verb definitions and noun definitions are related, and this is no exception

hype/h?p/

Noun:

Extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.

Verb:

Promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its importance or benefits.

Stimulate or excite (someone): "I was hyped up because I wanted to do well".

Well look, there is that intensive promotion in both the verb form and the noun form.

You really should have just left this argument long ago, because your 'slam dunk' was just blocked. Nothing more embarassing than having a dunk blocked.

Here is another definition that is closer to your interpretation:

1. Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion

Still, no mention of any exaggeration here. But yes, I realize some definitions will mention exaggeration or deception.

All this really means is that there is no agreed upon definition for hype.

But the reality of it is, when this site has a hype rating for games, its not a measure of which games people feel are most over publicized, its the games they are most looking forward too. Hype is something products want. In the way its used on this site, its more about excitement and anticipation for a product pre-release (and since this thread was started less than a week after SL's release, its close enough to that time frame).

Note that the second verb definition above, to stimulate or excite someone...No negative connotation at all.

Its after the product has been released for a while that hype switches from positive to negative. 'It didnt live up to the hype' or 'it was all hype.' Its just really that people tend to have unrealistic expectations.

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Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by Deleted User

For me Storm Legion so far from what I've seen is up there with the likes of the Burning Crusade and the Mines of Moria . The new continents appear smaller than I'd hoped for . This is only a first impression though and they could be a lot larger than they appear by looking at the maps . If I am right though I would say they have more than doubled the game world size but certainly not trebled it like many people thought they would .

As I say though that is only a first impression and I could easily be wrong . I'm sure if I am some kind soul will correct me of my mistake .

I'm pretty sure the expansion map is bigger, a higher resolution. You can zoom out further, so it looks smaller. That's why people are comparing the maps and thinking what you are thinking. There is also more water around the new continents that add to this. The original games map had very little water space at the top and the bottom, which made the graphic smaller.

Basically, the map image, the graphic, for the old continent isn't the same size as the expansion's.. it's smaller.

I'm not 100% certain of that, but that's what I think is going on from looking at them.

I checked out the coordinates for each map ingame.

The original game map is 15000 x 8150

The expansions map is 20500 x 15300

So what I've said above is correct. The expansions continents are deceptively smaller on the map but they arn't really. The individual zones are also much bigger than the ones in the original, which is deceptive once the map is fully zoomed out. Most are actually more than double the size. When looking at the new continents, you are seeing them from further away.

Ok, I did a rough estimation of the size of the two maps using coordinates. Basically I broke each map down into a few squares (or in EI's case a circle) and added some areas up. Both estimations are a little bigger than they actually are (I didnt worry about the straight between the two SL continents nor did I worry about the lake in the original map

Storm legion is about 43,580,200 square units

pre-expansion is about 35,030,000 square units

SL is roughly 1.25x the size of the existing world, although there is a pretty bg margin of error in these estimates. Its certainly not more than 2x the size as advertised though.

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Originally posted by strangiato2112

/snip

All pointless arguing because the person you replied to in the first place meant that the game didn't have exaggrated hype. Interpretations might be different, sure... Definitions might differ, sure. It was your 'argued' interpretation that didn't fit the context though, not mine. They meant Rift didn't have the kind of hype with negative connotations and you know it. Then, you used that as a way to hate on the game, meaning you meant the negative version as well, and are trying to argue your way out of it.

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Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by Deleted User

For me Storm Legion so far from what I've seen is up there with the likes of the Burning Crusade and the Mines of Moria . The new continents appear smaller than I'd hoped for . This is only a first impression though and they could be a lot larger than they appear by looking at the maps . If I am right though I would say they have more than doubled the game world size but certainly not trebled it like many people thought they would .

As I say though that is only a first impression and I could easily be wrong . I'm sure if I am some kind soul will correct me of my mistake .

I'm pretty sure the expansion map is bigger, a higher resolution. You can zoom out further, so it looks smaller. That's why people are comparing the maps and thinking what you are thinking. There is also more water around the new continents that add to this. The original games map had very little water space at the top and the bottom, which made the graphic smaller.

Basically, the map image, the graphic, for the old continent isn't the same size as the expansion's.. it's smaller.

I'm not 100% certain of that, but that's what I think is going on from looking at them.

I checked out the coordinates for each map ingame.

The original game map is 15000 x 8150

The expansions map is 20500 x 15300

So what I've said above is correct. The expansions continents are deceptively smaller on the map but they arn't really. The individual zones are also much bigger than the ones in the original, which is deceptive once the map is fully zoomed out. Most are actually more than double the size. When looking at the new continents, you are seeing them from further away.

Ok, I did a rough estimation of the size of the two maps using coordinates. Basically I broke each map down into a few squares (or in EI's case a circle) and added some areas up. Both estimations are a little bigger than they actually are (I didnt worry about the straight between the two SL continents nor did I worry about the lake in the original map

Storm legion is about 43,580,200 square units

pre-expansion is about 35,030,000 square units

SL is roughly 1.25x the size of the existing world, although there is a pretty bg margin of error in these estimates. Its certainly not more than 2x the size as advertised though.

No way of doing this in any accurate way because the continents are completely different shapes. I would have already done it if there was. Pointless.

It's as pointles as me saying:

The original game map is 15000 x 8150 = 122250000

The expansions map is 20500 x 15300 = 313650000

Storm Legion's map is over 2.5 times bigger than that of the original map. Minus the water from both and the continents are certainly 2 times bigger.

Original map has about 50% water = 61125000

SL Map is about 60% water = 125460000

Gives a nice 'rough' estimate like yours but that shows it is more than 2x bigger. There's more proof here though that is it a lot closer to being 2x bigger than 1x bigger.

The SL continents have some dead space on them as well, but it's not as much.

Not to mention we have no idea if you are actually competent at this sort of thing. We'd need the proper graphic file, both the same scale as each other, to do it properly.

Also.. you don't have the expansion do you? Which maps have you been using? Were they the same scale? lol Because if you havn't been using the ones ingame with the ingame coordinates.. the door is over there. Even the ingame maps arn't the same scale when fully zoomed out, that's why you need the real ingame coordinates.

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For those of you wondering why the world was so "small" at launch... the answer is very logical.

We saw this same thing happen with DAoC... where you have content specific to each faction. For the original launch, they had to design essentially two branches of 1-50 content: one for Guardians and one for Defiants. There is some overlap, but not a ton.

The same thing happened with DAoC. With Shrouded Isles, its first expansion, each realm had its own "expansion". So all development efforts were divded in 3. With Trials of Atlantis, while each realm had its own "atlantis", but the content was very much the same and it felt like a much larger addition.

For SL, this is no longer the case. Content is shared amongst both factions now. So instead of each faction getting "half" the content, each faction gets to see everything.

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Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by strangiato2112

/snip

All pointless arguing because the person you replied to in the first place meant that the game didn't have exaggrated hype. Interpretations might be different, sure... Definitions might differ, sure. It was your 'argued' interpretation that didn't fit the context though, not mine. They meant Rift didn't have the kind of hype with negative connotations and you know it. Then, you used that as a way to hate on the game, meaning you meant the negative version as well, and are trying to argue your way out of it.

Actually the person I responded to said that storm legion was a sleeper. I was more reacting to the ridiculous notion that this is some surprise expansion pack that came out of nowhere. People talked about it a lot. People expected it to be great.

You saw it is negative, because you associate me with negativity. You dont like that fact that I point out Rift's flaws. But you will notice I dont criticise unless an opinion is asked for (then it would be improper not to) or when people exaggerate or sometimes flat out lie. And i certainly say positive things about Trion and the game too. In fact, Im pretty sure in this thread I agreed it was probably the best expanson since Echoes of Faydwer.

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Originally posted by strangiato2112

You saw it is negative, because you associate me with negativity. You dont like that fact that I point out Rift's flaws. But you will notice I dont criticise unless an opinion is asked for (then it would be improper not to) or when people exaggerate or sometimes flat out lie. And i certainly say positive things about Trion and the game too. In fact, Im pretty sure in this thread I agreed it was probably the best expanson since Echoes of Faydwer.

Actually I don't see you as being overly, and only, negative about Rift. The only reason I replied is because of your previous comments. I agreed with them and have said the same thing in other threads. I don't think you are a troll at all, but you 'are' hating, if I did I wouldn't have bothered discussing it with you.

Yes, people expected SL to be great. That was it's hype.. but you are saying it isn't as great as they thought (which most disagree with), meaning you are claiming it isn't as great as they thought... the negative hype. I disagree with that.

For me Storm Legion so far from what I've seen is up there with the likes of the Burning Crusade and the Mines of Moria . The new continents appear smaller than I'd hoped for . This is only a first impression though and they could be a lot larger than they appear by looking at the maps . If I am right though I would say they have more than doubled the game world size but certainly not trebled it like many people thought they would .

As I say though that is only a first impression and I could easily be wrong . I'm sure if I am some kind soul will correct me of my mistake .

I'm pretty sure the expansion map is bigger, a higher resolution. You can zoom out further, so it looks smaller. That's why people are comparing the maps and thinking what you are thinking. There is also more water around the new continents that add to this. The original games map had very little water space at the top and the bottom, which made the graphic smaller.

Basically, the map image, the graphic, for the old continent isn't the same size as the expansion's.. it's smaller.

I'm not 100% certain of that, but that's what I think is going on from looking at them.

I checked out the coordinates for each map ingame.

The original game map is 15000 x 8150

The expansions map is 20500 x 15300

So what I've said above is correct. The expansions continents are deceptively smaller on the map but they arn't really. The individual zones are also much bigger than the ones in the original, which is deceptive once the map is fully zoomed out. Most are actually more than double the size. When looking at the new continents, you are seeing them from further away.

Ok, I did a rough estimation of the size of the two maps using coordinates. Basically I broke each map down into a few squares (or in EI's case a circle) and added some areas up. Both estimations are a little bigger than they actually are (I didnt worry about the straight between the two SL continents nor did I worry about the lake in the original map

Storm legion is about 43,580,200 square units

pre-expansion is about 35,030,000 square units

SL is roughly 1.25x the size of the existing world, although there is a pretty bg margin of error in these estimates. Its certainly not more than 2x the size as advertised though.

No way of doing this in any accurate way because the continents are completely different shapes. I would have already done it if there was. Pointless.

It's as pointles as me saying:

The original game map is 15000 x 8150 = 122250000

The expansions map is 20500 x 15300 = 313650000

Storm Legion's map is over 2.5 times bigger than that of the original map. Minus the water from both and the continents are certainly 2 times bigger.

Original map has about 50% water = 61125000

SL Map is about 60% water = 125460000

Gives a nice 'rough' estimate like yours but that shows it is more than 2x bigger. There's more proof here though that is it a lot closer to being 2x bigger than 1x bigger.

The SL continents have some dead space on them as well, but it's not as much.

Not to mention we have no idea if you are actually competent at this sort of thing. We'd need the proper graphic file, both the same scale as each other, to do it properly.

Also.. you don't have the expansion do you? Which maps have you been using? Were they the same scale? lol Because if you havn't been using the ones ingame with the ingame coordinates.. the door is over there. Even the ingame maps arn't the same scale when fully zoomed out, that's why you need the real ingame coordinates.

I have access to an active Rift account (w/ SL). I was using the ingame maps with the zone boundaries, not the continent boundaries. I was using coordinates and seperated into different rectangular regions. Since the continents arent nice and square, yes what I have done isnt perfect. There was some eyeballing, so no, not exact. I tried to make the rectangles so the spillover in one corner would equal the gap in the opposite corner, tried to fit best I could. If you really doubt me, go nuts in game and break it down. If you wanted to spend a couple hours you could get a pretty accurate number

I am certain that at most SL 1.5x size of pre-SL, but I think my 1.25 is probably fairly close.

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Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by strangiato2112

You saw it is negative, because you associate me with negativity. You dont like that fact that I point out Rift's flaws. But you will notice I dont criticise unless an opinion is asked for (then it would be improper not to) or when people exaggerate or sometimes flat out lie. And i certainly say positive things about Trion and the game too. In fact, Im pretty sure in this thread I agreed it was probably the best expanson since Echoes of Faydwer.

Actually I don't see you as being overly, and only, negative about Rift. The only reason I replied is because of your previous comments. I agreed with them and have said the same thing in other threads. I don't think you are a troll at all, but you 'are' hating, if I did I wouldn't have bothered discussing it with you.

Yes, people expected SL to be great. That was it's hype.. but you are saying it isn't as great as they thought (which most disagree with), meaning you are claiming it isn't as great as they thought... the negative hype. I disagree with that.

No, I didnt say that. I did say (at some point, not sure if in this thread) that its a little premature to say how great it is, wait to see how people react when its out a month. Even so, Ive been one of the premature people (and Ive praised it even though Im choosing not to play it...and I havent even been that vocal on why Im not playing)

But what started this is me disagreeing that Storm Legon is a sleeper.

Then you brought in dictionary definitions of hype, and we also disagree on some points of how you can interpret what Trion has done (and its an agree to disagree sort of thing, I think the press conferences were excessive...but not necessarily a bad thing, and there is the whole world size thing which we are discussing elsewhere).

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I'll be "that guy", but the picture of the chick with the rack is actually of Queen Miela, leader of the Lycini Elves, the major faction in the new continents.

Crucia is in fact a big ugly dragon god from the plane of air.

That clarification aside, issues raised:

Mob tagging: there IS mob tagging, but it's actually the reverse of what you might think. Nobody "owns" a mob, it's XP and it's loot. All a person needs to do is "tag" a mob, and he/she gets a full share of the XP and loot the mob is worth when it dies. Example: You pull 5 mobs and spend 60 seconds killing them all. Each mob is worth 3,000XP. At some point I walk by and drop a single AOE on the group you're working and move on. You end up with 1,500 XP, and so do I. You did 99% of the work, I get half the XP, as well as half the coin. After 60 this won't be as much of a problem, but you can basically leech your way by insta-casting AOE spells while running around and taking away people's effort.

Non-raid advancement: The vendors sell "Adventure" items in the new continents for the new currency Emperyal Sourcestone (ESS). You now get ESS from a greater variety of activiies, not just invasions. These vendor purchased "Adventure" items can be upgraded instead of replaced. Eventually, I believe they are to be equivalent of top-end Expert/entry level T-1 gear, all for just doing daily quests, Instant Adventures and helping out with Zone Invasions. Raid gear will still be the best, obviously, but sitting back in any easy chair will get you "competitive" gear.

Quest hubs: Don't really exist so much anymore, but there are story quests that take you around a zone so you see everyplace. Most quests are now "progressive objective" quests, meaning, in the course of one quest, you do A, that reveals that you must do B, which when completed opens up C, D, E, etc. The other typical quests are still in the game, and if you do the story quests you're bound to encounter their replacements:

Randomly placed items in the world that trigger local quests/quest lines,

"Carnage" grinding quests (Kill 15-25 of an NPC/mob) you automatically pick up by just killing one of the NPC/mobs.

"Onslaught" quests which were around pre-SL where you defend a base from wave after wave of planar invaders.

The more exploring you do, the more quests that you will find. However, to follow the "story" you're not really caught up in "Kill X" and/or "Fetch Y" quests out the wazoo. They're there to some extent, the quests need to be _something_, but Trion kinda did a good job in taking MMO questing for XP to some new level. That said, I understand that just following the story lines is simply not enough XP to advance to the next zones. Some combination of these other quests/Instant Adventures/PVPing must be done.

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Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by strangiato2112

You saw it is negative, because you associate me with negativity. You dont like that fact that I point out Rift's flaws. But you will notice I dont criticise unless an opinion is asked for (then it would be improper not to) or when people exaggerate or sometimes flat out lie. And i certainly say positive things about Trion and the game too. In fact, Im pretty sure in this thread I agreed it was probably the best expanson since Echoes of Faydwer.

Actually I don't see you as being overly, and only, negative about Rift. The only reason I replied is because of your previous comments. I agreed with them and have said the same thing in other threads. I don't think you are a troll at all, but you 'are' hating, if I did I wouldn't have bothered discussing it with you.

Yes, people expected SL to be great. That was it's hype.. but you are saying it isn't as great as they thought (which most disagree with), meaning you are claiming it isn't as great as they thought... the negative hype. I disagree with that.

No, I didnt say that. I did say (at some point, not sure if in this thread) that its a little premature to say how great it is, wait to see how people react when its out a month. Even so, Ive been one of the premature people (and Ive praised it even though Im choosing not to play it...and I havent even been that vocal on why Im not playing)

But what started this is me disagreeing that Storm Legon is a sleeper.

Then you brought in dictionary definitions of hype, and we also disagree on some points of how you can interpret what Trion has done (and its an agree to disagree sort of thing, I think the press conferences were excessive...but not necessarily a bad thing, and there is the whole world size thing which we are discussing elsewhere).

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I'll be "that guy", but the picture of the chick with the rack is actually of Queen Miela, leader of the Lycini Elves, the major faction in the new continents.

Crucia is in fact a big ugly dragon god from the plane of air.

That clarification aside, issues raised:

Mob tagging: there IS mob tagging, but it's actually the reverse of what you might think. Nobody "owns" a mob, it's XP and it's loot. All a person needs to do is "tag" a mob, and he/she gets a full share of the XP and loot the mob is worth when it dies. Example: You pull 5 mobs and spend 60 seconds killing them all. Each mob is worth 3,000XP. At some point I walk by and drop a single AOE on the group you're working and move on. You end up with 1,500 XP, and so do I. You did 99% of the work, I get half the XP, as well as half the coin. After 60 this won't be as much of a problem, but you can basically leech your way by insta-casting AOE spells while running around and taking away people's effort.

Queen Miela does not have those eyes (and is wearing (slightly) more clothing). That ad features the hot chick formerly known as Queen Miela.

I dont think the mob tagging xp is as bad as you posted, but its true, if someone comes along and 'helps' you on your mob, you lose exp.

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Opposite exaggeration to the notion of SL being a sleeper. It did have a disproportionate amount of attenton around it compared to the size of the playerbase though.

But with the scale of this expansion, whether or not it really is 3 times bigger than it was before it does add tons of other things as well, do you not think it deserves a bit, or even a lot, of outside attention? You're saying it doesn't deserve the attention yet you are also saying it's the best expansion in recent years. You're contradicting yourself. Surely the best expansion is recent years deserves a lot of attention.

I've yet to see another single expansion that doubles the size of the world it's expanding. Not saying there isn't one though, I just havn't seen it. Maybe AO's Shadowlands did actually.... not sure. Nah, probably not actually cos AO's original game was massive.. full of nothing but massive. I havn't seen an expansion that adds 4 new classes.. and they can be considered full classes because it's 4 new classes you can put the full 61 points in and specialise in just them.

Plus, when something is a sleeper hit.. it doesn't mean no one knows about it.. it means no one is expecting it to be any good when it actually is and it becomes a hit later. They disregard it at first. So, saying it's not a sleeper hit and is hyped beyond belief is the same as saying it's not as good as people think it is... and sorta suggests it's going to fail. Commonly known as hating. It's also the opposite of what is happening, for now anyway.