'The hitman offered me a job': Eileen Ormsby uncovers the dark web

Before speaking to Eileen Ormsby, I knew little about the dark web. And perhaps that was for the best. I knew it was a haven for paedophiles and arms dealers, but I didn't care to look beyond that. Ormsby is one woman who did. When writing her latest book Darkest Web, the Melbourne-based lawyer and writer uncovered a whole lot more.

For people who can barely get their head around Reddit, YouTube and other channels of the regular web, how would you describe the dark web?

The dark web is just a name given for the websites that can't be searched for or accessed using the regular web. Special software is required to get to these sites. Both the website's hosts and users are hidden from each other and from anyone else trying to track them.

So it's a useful tool for anyone who needs secrecy and privacy but it also means like-minded people can gather for nefarious purposes, knowing they can't be tracked. That's why it's perfect for selling drugs, weapons, malware, stolen personal and financial information and some of the darker stuff.

The Darkest Web author Eileen Ormsby.Credit:Phillip Gao

Advertisement

Why can't these users be tracked?

The software used, Tor, was developed by the US military to protect military secrets. It was made to be very robust and to ensure people can't be tracked, that was the whole idea behind it.

On the dark web, sites which are really illegal, can operate openly and brazenly without fear that the people behind them can be traced. In the past, drugs have always been sold online, but it had to be really clandestine. Now, they're really open, out there and attracting customers. That's the big difference.

There have been stories of users downloading Tor and moments later receiving phone calls and other users commenting their full names, without them ever having revealed their personal details. Did this ever happen to you?

No. I don't think it ever happened to anyone else . There are a lot of myths about the dark web. YouTubers especially are now doing these unboxing of dark web mystery boxes, and it's all just made up. Most of the creepy stories of the dark web are made up.

Do you think most of these stories are just Redditors reaching for upvotes?

Yes! Very much so. There actually is some full on stuff on the dark web, though. There are sites which look exactly like Amazon and eBay, except you're popping cocaine into your basket instead of books and CDs.

They turn over hundreds of millions of dollars. Also the child exploitation communities do exist. These are huge. But there are other things speculated about which simply don't exist.

I actually came across your post about your Canberra Writers' Festival talk when I was doing my daily Reddit trawl. Do you post much on there?

Yeah, I'm a Redditor. I'm very much a Redditor.

What are your favourite subreddits?

I'm on r/deepweb and r/darkweb, plus the cryptocurrency subreddits. I'm also on r/Melbourne. Anywhere I'm travelling to, the first thing I do is subscribe to the subreddit of that country or town. It's the best way to find people and get the vibe of the place.

I'm going to pinch that idea for travel planning. Going back to the dark web, I've read about people finding surprisingly wholesome content on there. Neverending cat slideshows, the sale of a grilled cheese sandwich and a radio station where people communicate as though they're wizards. Have you found anything similar?

There are some of those things, but they're the minority. It's not all darkness, though. One of my favourite places on the dark web is this site where psychedelic users get together. They just like their psychedelic drugs and talking about their rainbows, their unicorns and other sweet happy things.

Interesting. Why don't they do this on the clear web?

I guess on the clear web there's always a chance that your IP will be tracked, and given up. So, the dark web is a much safer place because there's no chance of you being tracked that way.

What initially kicked off your fascination with the dark web?

In 2012, I wrote a story about Silk Road, the first major point-and-click drugs market. I had heard about it from people who were using it, then I had a look at it and wrote an article for The Age.

Immediately after, my editor asked me for a story on the dark web more generally and I got really immersed. I became the go-to journo for all these dark web stories for Fairfax. Then I found there were all these underground communities, and it was interesting to get involved and see how they survive and regulate themselves.

There's this total anonymity. There were these really interesting characters who had these really robust debates and philosophical discussions. I sort of just stayed.

So you've been investigating it since 2012?

Pretty much. 2011 was the first time I logged onto Silk Road.

I hear you try to live off the grid now. Why?

Well, I sort of was off the grid. When I finished writing Darkest Web I was burned out. I got bombarded by some very odd people. Think of the odd people on Reddit, now times that by 10.

Far out.

Yeah, it can get a bit full on. But now I've got a few different projects on the go so I'm very much back online.

During your dark web investigation you tried reporting people hiring hitmen to the authorities, what was that like?

Thanks to a friendly hacker I know, I gained access to the Besa Mafia website, which was the most profitable dark web hitman site that ever existed. When we got into their back door, we could see all the transactions coming and going.

So people who had hired hits on people and paid money for it. Using that, we couldn't find out who was behind the website itself, but we were able to tell the police that these people had hits taken out on them. And from that, several arrests around the world had been made. One murder happened, which is a big part of my book.

The Besa Mafia site Eileen Ormsby investigated.

So after this you attracted criticism from those operating in Besa Mafia?

Once I started writing about Besa Mafia's operation, the owner started bombarding me with threats. Everything from hacking my computer and placing child pornography onto it, to threatening to send one of his operatives to beef me up and rape me.

He was fond of reminding me that I didn't know who he was or where he was, yet he knew who I was and where I lived. That whole relationship with this hitman took a bizarre turn. He wound up offering me a job.

What?!

English isn't his first language, so he wanted me to help re-write his website. We kept talking and it went on for over a year. It was quite bizarre.

Were you scared?

Not really. He didn't know I had access to his emails and everything he was doing. I was a step ahead of him. I knew he didn't have operatives in Australia and he didn't want to actually harm me. I could see what was happening in the back end in his site. Later on, he actually ended up giving me access to his site, as recently as a few weeks ago. I reported a target to Victoria Police, someone in Melbourne.

Jeez, making friends in the real world must be easy if you can make these tricky connections online.

I'm actually better online than in the real world! Like many writers I'm better on a keyboard than I am face to face.

Eileen Ormsby is in conversation with Dr. Tobias Feakin at the Canberra Writers Festival this Saturday, August 25. Tickets can be purchased at canberrawritersfestival.com.au.