On 16/11/2010 kieranl wrote:>And on Wednesday 17th November you can hear Naomi Oreskes, author of Merchants>of Doubt : How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from>Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming. 5:45-7 pm State Library of Victoria,>Melbourne.>For some background try The Age, Saturday 13 November (p10 of Insight>section)

It was a great talk. Very august looking audience of Radio National listening types, who probably watch BOTH the 7.30 Report and Lateline. Didn't see TonyB there.

On 18/11/2010 evanbb wrote:>Tremendous contribution Tony, classic of the genre.>

Interesting that he mentions species loss and bushland destruction, though. Your classic climate change denialist likes to rubbish any cause that is vaguely "green" (think Andrew Bolt, Miranda Devine etc). However there is a sub-variety that does care about a range of environmental issues but is vexed about climate change having become top of the agenda (think David Bellamy).

On 18/11/2010 billk wrote:>Interesting that he mentions species loss and bushland destruction, though.>Your classic climate change denialist likes to rubbish any cause that is>vaguely "green" (think Andrew Bolt, Miranda Devine etc). However there>is a sub-variety that does care about a range of environmental issues but>is vexed about climate change having become top of the agenda (think David>Bellamy).

I am extremely sceptical about athat lot. Heard of Concern Trolls? They pop up quite frequently on interweb comment sites. Generally, they appear to be on your side, by talking about species and habitat loss, but only to derail the conversation.

Any ecologist who thinks that AGW and species/habitat loss are not linked is completely barking IMHO.

On 18/11/2010 evanbb wrote:>I am extremely sceptical about athat lot. Heard of Concern Trolls? They>pop up quite frequently on interweb comment sites. Generally, they appear>to be on your side, by talking about species and habitat loss, but only>to derail the conversation. >>Any ecologist who thinks that AGW and species/habitat loss are not linked>is completely barking IMHO.

Very good point about concern trolls. That is probably the best explanation for TonyB's comments.

I agree that any ecologist who thinks AGW and species/habitat loss are not linked is barking. But your David Bellamys are nothing like your Bjorn Lomborgs or your Andrew Bolts or Tony Abbotts. I don't exactly know how to respond to them but I'm sure David Bellamy isn't the only climate change denialist who defintely does care about species and habitat loss.

Bjorn Lomborg is certainly no Bolt or Abbott, but he's a master at trying to conceal how he's shifted ground over the years. It wasn't long ago that he was advocating the Concern Troll-esque line that it was, relative to a myriad of other global concerns, not a high enough priority and/or too expensive to try to address (anthropogenic) climate change.

No sane, intelligent person with a firm grasp of what the science is telling us could possibly hold this view.

On 18/11/2010 spicelab wrote:>Bjorn Lomborg is certainly no Bolt or Abbott, but he's a master at trying>to conceal how he's shifted ground over the years. It wasn't long ago>that he was advocating the Concern Troll-esque line that it was, relative>to a myriad of other global concerns, not a high enough priority and/or>too expensive to try to address (anthropogenic) climate change.>>No sane, intelligent person with a firm grasp of what the science is telling>us could possibly hold this view.

A friend went to Uni with the Bolter and says he was a small l liberal back then. He attributes his wild shift to the right as a canny career move. I wouldn't be surprised if Bjorn Lomborg's shift to being a "skeptical environmentalist" was a canny career move. He has certainly been able to shift a lot of units of his books, while painting himself as an embattled outsider who the environmentalist establishment has it in for.

I refrained from pissing on TonyB during the babies-at-crags thread, but his logic right now is so ridiculous I find it offensive. So...

Tony: I had an absolutely fantastic time one day at Berowra failing to clip a bolt so I could stare down your hot wife's super low slung singlet. With any luck, global warming will encourage her to wear fewer clothes more often.

On 18/11/2010 billk wrote:>On 18/11/2010 spicelab wrote:> I wouldn't be surprised if Bjorn Lomborg's shift to being a "skeptical>environmentalist" was a canny career move. He has certainly been able to>shift a lot of units of his books, while painting himself as an embattled>outsider who the environmentalist establishment has it in for.

Seconded.

And I suspect the same of The Bolta. Worse, I suspect he knows exactly what he's doing in the way he can steer an audience around by the nose. He could make a lot more money plying those skills in an evangelical church in the States.

On 18/11/2010 Philtown wrote:>I refrained from pissing on TonyB during the babies-at-crags thread, but>his logic right now is so ridiculous I find it offensive. So...>>Tony: I had an absolutely fantastic time one day at Berowra failing to>clip a bolt so I could stare down your hot wife's super low slung singlet.>With any luck, global warming will encourage her to wear fewer clothes>more often.

I can't remember ever reading a piece of AB's that failed to offend or horrify me in some way. That's not person bashing. That's evidence based assessment that i fundamentally disagree with his conclusions on a regular basis.

On 18/11/2010 Wendy wrote:>I can't remember ever reading a piece of AB's that failed to offend or>horrify me in some way. That's not person bashing. That's evidence based>assessment that i fundamentally disagree with his conclusions on a regular>basis.

I am regularly horrified by his Aboriginal and Muslim bashing. I didn't like school bullies much when I was a kid and I still don't like people who act much the same way.

Militant Islamism should be criticized, the bureacracies that regularly fail to assist Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people should be criticized but the nasty anti-Muslim and anti-Aboriginal attitudes that are prevalent in Australia should not be pandered to.

On 27/05/2009 Organ Pipe wrote:>Google his name + his email address domain. ...>"Dr. Burns has a bachelor of engineering and a doctorate in chemical engineering

I'd missed this post previously. Yes, Dr Burns has a PhD and a BE (Hon 1) in Chem Eng, and he has no interest whatever in googling whoever you might be Organ Pipe.
If this forum was representative of the population at large, there should be 4 other PhD's in Engineering here, and about 2900 people with below average intelligence.