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You know, this makes me very glad to be part of the PC UT3 community. I mean we have the mods and the DLC, the best looking version (depending on the hardware ofcourse) and we got the most patches so far and 1.3 coming. The release may have been far from perfect, but they are definitely trying

There are likely differences in the renderer for the 360 and Ps3 versions due to the differences in platform architecture. These would yield strong visual deviations from one another, regardless of the art assets.

You know, this makes me very glad to be part of the PC UT3 community. I mean we have the mods and the DLC, the best looking version (depending on the hardware ofcourse) and we got the most patches so far and 1.3 coming. The release may have been far from perfect, but they are definitely trying

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Way to kill the game for a lot of PS3 owners Mark.

We might as well face it, Epic is pretty much in M$'s pocket at this point...

It may have been something Microsoft did but I think its more along the lines of the PS3's limitations that kept them from doing splitscreen for it. It very well could have also been the simple fact that the Unreal Engine 3 is always becoming better and better and they have been improving it for each console the entire time. But who knows

You know, this makes me very glad to be part of the PC UT3 community. I mean we have the mods and the DLC, the best looking version (depending on the hardware ofcourse) and we got the most patches so far and 1.3 coming. The release may have been far from perfect, but they are definitely trying

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You've posted this twice, so I'll answer it a second time as well. All three versions look identical. If there's been any improvement, then you can consider it negligible.

Farkin' brilliant isn't it. PC gamers won't buy it because all the users are on the PS3, whose users won't play it because it doesn't have splitscreen like 360 users have, who won't buy / play it because it doesn't have proper mod support like the PC.

War is not the saving grace of UT3 to what Onslaught was for UT2K3, if it was this wouldnt even be a discussion right now. While not an ideal solution for UT3 to survive Epic have to pull another UT2K4.

If you've been a gamer for very long, then you know that this happens with every game sequel and the developer/publisher have absolutely no control over it.

In order for this to not happen, each sequel would have to play and feel exactly the same as the previous game.

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If its their IP and they treat it properly then they have absolute control over what they do with it, they have all the control in the world when developing a sequel short of violationg other IP's. Nothing stops them from staying true to their own source material but themself.

If you've been a gamer for very long, then you know that this happens with every game sequel and the developer/publisher have absolutely no control over it.

In order for this to not happen, each sequel would have to play and feel exactly the same as the previous game.

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Mortal Kombat 2 felt completely different than MK and it totally smashed its sales. Same thing with Marvel vs Capcom 2. Also personally i think ms pacman was better than pacman, but those two played pretty much the same.

You've posted this twice, so I'll answer it a second time as well. All three versions look identical. If there's been any improvement, then you can consider it negligible.

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I could be wrong, but doesnt ut3 claim to only do 720p on consoles? if so, have you ever seen 720p upscaled to 1080p vs true 1080p the difference is huge. Obviously a pc can do 1080p+. Nothing beats native resolution. I know cod4 claims 720p or 1080p but really only does 600p. Anyone know the truth about ut3 console resolutions?

back on topic: the release of ut3 before it was ready is what killed it. the publisher prolly pushed them to release it. epic has tons of money, why cant they just publish the game themselves?

War is not the saving grace of UT3 to what Onslaught was for UT2K3, if it was this wouldnt even be a discussion right now. While not an ideal solution for UT3 to survive Epic have to pull another UT2K4.

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It's not? Last time I checked it and VCTF were the only gametypes that always had people playing and open servers with people playing almost any time of day.

If its their IP and they treat it properly then they have absolute control over what they do with it, they have all the control in the world when developing a sequel short of violationg other IP's. Nothing stops them from staying true to their own source material but themself.

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They have control over the game, but they don't have any control over it's adoption at all. Look at Tribes Vengeance. Most Tribes fans wrote it off, despite it being better in many ways than the previous games (and yes, I realize that they felt in the important ways the gameplay was broken).

The point is, all they can do is make a fun game. They can't make people play it.

Mortal Kombat 2 felt completely different than MK and it totally smashed its sales. Same thing with Marvel vs Capcom 2. Also personally i think ms pacman was better than pacman, but those two played pretty much the same.

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But we aren't talking about sales. I've heard from many reliable sources that UT3 is doing as well as any previous game in terms of sales. I'd probably stake my left nut on the price reductions being due to the low online numbers and not the sales numbers.

In fact, your post proves my point better than I ever could. You took a game that felt completely different and it "did better" and a game that felt nearly exactly the same and it "did better" That right there proves that the developer can't do anything but make a good game and hope it does well. In those cases, they probably had the advertising/promotion/marketing necessary to push sales of those games regardless of how good the games were.

I mean, by many accounts on this forum, UT2004 should be better than UT, but we still see a large community fracture between the two games

But we aren't talking about sales. I've heard from many reliable sources that UT3 is doing as well as any previous game in terms of sales. I'd probably stake my left nut on the price reductions being due to the low online numbers and not the sales numbers.

In fact, your post proves my point better than I ever could. You took a game that felt completely different and it "did better" and a game that felt nearly exactly the same and it "did better" That right there proves that the developer can't do anything but make a good game and hope it does well. In those cases, they probably had the advertising/promotion/marketing necessary to push sales of those games regardless of how good the games were.

I mean, by many accounts on this forum, UT2004 should be better than UT, but we still see a large community fracture between the two games

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MK2 was an arcade game it had no advertising, except word of mouth.. when one showed up in an arcade. The only way it made money is by people dropping quarters in it for the person vs person gameplay. UT3 is the same thing, if it was good... people would be playing it online. Theres tons of people playing cod4 online, why not for ut3? You can advertise the fut nucks off of something, but if it sucks it will fail. Remember all the ads for waterworld?... On the other hand i dont ever recall seeing an ad for counterstrike,MK2 or UT99, and all of them did great.

Have you ever listened to a song you hated, but after hearing it 1000 times you start singing along with it? that can happen with games that aren't good too. Most people arent forced to play a game after they decide they dont like it, so that explains the lack of players online. Im not saying the game completely sucks, its just not fun enough to keep you coming back. The beta demo was a huge red flag epic ignored.

MK2 was an arcade game it had no advertising, except word of mouth.. when one showed up in an arcade. The only way it made money is by people dropping quarters in it for the person vs person gameplay. UT3 is the same thing, if it was good... people would be playing it online. Theres tons of people playing cod4 online, why not for ut3? You can advertise the fut nucks off of something, but if it sucks it will fail. Remember all the ads for waterworld?... On the other hand i dont ever recall seeing an ad for counterstrike,MK2 or UT99, and all of them did great.

Have you ever listened to a song you hated, but after hearing it 1000 times you start singing along with it? that can happen with games that aren't good too. Most people arent forced to play a game after they decide they dont like it, so that explains the lack of players online. Im not saying the game completely sucks, its just not fun enough to keep you coming back. The beta demo was a huge red flag epic ignored.

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as far as ads go that just not compleyely true... sucky stuff thats advertised is successful all the time. just turn on your tv or go to the movies or listen to the latest billboard 100. ppl believe the hype all the time (unfortunately).
But, very few bits of entertainment can succeed without good advertising. its the rare gem (or just plain lucky) that makes it big on word of mouth only.

UT3 is lotsa fun, the problem is as Epic admitted, it really wasnt ready for prime time yet... and the lack of ads, (which do make much more diff now than they did in 89, or 99) definitely hurt alot too.

MK2 was an arcade game it had no advertising, except word of mouth.. when one showed up in an arcade. The only way it made money is by people dropping quarters in it for the person vs person gameplay.

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What a completely bogus comparison then. This is like comparing a $1.00 beer in a bar to a $50 keg straight from the brewery. Obviously the $1.00 beer is going to sell better because it's in a place you go and it's cheap.

UT3 is the same thing, if it was good... people would be playing it online. Theres tons of people playing cod4 online, why not for ut3?

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Because they're playing CoD4

But seriously, UT has never been as popular as realism games. That has always been the case. I would bet my left nut that no sci fi game has EVER done as well as it's realism counterparts (except maybe in RTSes).

You can advertise the fut nucks off of something, but if it sucks it will fail. Remember all the ads for waterworld?

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Now you are ignoring the difference between sales and online player numbers?

Advertising pays. Halo is one of the worst FPSes ever made, but Microsoft branded and marketed it well and now it's one of the most successful games ever made. Also look at Gears of War. Do you honestly believe that game would have sold period if Midway had been the publisher?

On the other hand i dont ever recall seeing an ad for counterstrike,MK2 or UT99, and all of them did great.

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Counter Strike was probably around for YEARS before you ever heard of it. The alphas and betas were terrible in so many ways but those of us who saw the potential in it kept playing and recommending it to friends anyway. Now I feel like games have moved on and improved from counter strike, but it is still the most played FPS in the world right now.

UT had a TON of advertising. Gt Interactive did them right on that game. Every magazine everywhere had tons of previews, ads, reviews, etc. Entire websites were devoted to the game and media releases were frequent and full of information.

UT3 has the unfortunate problem of having scattered information and screenshots over it's development time, and a good 40% or more of what was talked about over a year ago isn't even in the game anymore. I've seen very few advertisements for it and media releases have been shoddy at best.

Games that do great have a combination of things.

First, they approach a subject matter that the majority of gamers are interested in at the time. Sci fi FPSes on PC have never really been a popular genre.

Second, this generation, running on 6 year old computers seems like it's mandatory for some reason. I don't remember people in 2004 whining about how UT2004 wouldn't run on the exact same machine that people played UT at crappy framerates on, but that does happen now with UT3->UT2004. It's really rather retarded.

Third, they advertise in a huge and major way. Media releases and news are frequent (even if information-less) and never give away anything that isn't set in stone. You never would have heard about a game mode for CoD4 that they were not sure as shooting would be in the final release. One REALLY important part of this is having a community portal like Charlie Oscar Delta or Cult of Rapture. I agree with many people on here that Epic doesn't give enough updates via public access methods (stickied forum posts, a site devoted to community updates, etc) and the problem with that is that it's clear from these other sites that it is absolutely something that gamers are craving today.

Fourth, if they are sequels, they capitalize but do not depend on the successes of the previous games. UT3 probably shouldn't have UWindows, but it sure needed a UI that lived up to the expectations of previous games. Also, relying on a third party system for game serving when you've handled it well in the past doesn't help either. However, this issue is something that I believe could have been reasonably resolved if a community portal did exist, and Epic were frank and up front about how that system was going to work months before release. Things like not being able to use a custom nickname could have been resolved ages before the demo came out. Gameplay does not need to match previous games, but it should feel like it's the same series.

Fifth, continued community updates and coverage. Infinity Ward is AWESOME at this. I'll even admit Blizzard is awesome at this (though I hate companies who rely on MMORPGs as a foundational part of their business strategy). A very important aspect of this is letting the community know what you are doing to improve their experience with your game. Yet again, this is another place where a community portal is very desirable.

Obviously there is more but I'm tired of typing The unfortunate problem here is that, while UT3 does touch on each of these areas, it mostly fails to impress much in any of them. I'd love to see Epic take a more active role in the community. Whether by hiring people to run a community portal for them, or even something as simple as posting a sticky in their forum every week or so letting people know what they are up to. I think it would make a HUGE difference in the outlook of the community in general.