This is calculated with a 10min test aka being able to use HotW twice, Within a 6min aka that you use it once and end the fight right when it was available Crit ended up the same value as haste. We still need to look at if HotW is the best talent to pick in a fight length of 5-6mins.

some fights like wote its better to have DoC and that favours a mastery build.

Quick question, i'm using HotW which devalues soul of the forest. In the section you mention it may be worth using FoN for this reason + because you (obviously) don't have NV. But wouldn't incarnation still be better anyway? I guess what i am asking is, were the sims putting incarnation in front of FoN taking into account using NV + Incarnation, or will it still be better by itself without NV.

SotF is really nice, it really gives more energy and the best part is on clearcasting procs you can use a finisher (free enery cost) but still providing the energy via this talent. So basically you can regain energy if you watch carefully when you have clearcasting.

Dream of Cenarius provides with 25% damage increase for the next 2 melee abilities...this includes Rip and Rake. It may be a little hard to master but if you can always put bleeds with this buff your DPS will increase ALOT.

Also I suggest you use a target=targettarget macro so that if you're at full HP you can heal the tank, that helps a lot since using dream of cenarius HT crits heal for 150k with decent amounts of agility.

@Etapicx: Leafkiller and I already looked at that, and it still is. And again, I have doubts that your sims were done correctly considering they are drastically different than what both me and Jazdia have gotten.

Just achieved rank 1 world on Elegon 25m, beating second place by 3k, and beating second place feral(DoC) by 20k. I was using a 442 iLvl caster wep + HotW, reforged to max haste/crit, dropping exp/hit cap. HotW is in a very good place right now and I'd like to see what could be done with a 463, alas I haven't had one drop yet. Hopefully this talent doesn't get nerfed any time soon, I see it becoming weaker once the melee weapon is a tier or two above spellcaster weapon, at which DoC will probably be stronger.

some fights like wote its better to have DoC and that favours a mastery build.

Yes of course.

Originally Posted by nxzt

Vial of Shadows, still BiS? Rawr puts it above every trinket except 509 Terror in the Mists. Is this correct?

I do not think so i do not have a VoS to try it out either

Originally Posted by sillabear

Just found this guide, and it has been pretty useful thanks!

Quick question, i'm using HotW which devalues soul of the forest. In the section you mention it may be worth using FoN for this reason + because you (obviously) don't have NV. But wouldn't incarnation still be better anyway? I guess what i am asking is, were the sims putting incarnation in front of FoN taking into account using NV + Incarnation, or will it still be better by itself without NV.

In our current gear i think Incarnation is best paired with Nature's Vigil.

Originally Posted by aggixx

@Etapicx: Leafkiller and I already looked at that, and it still is. And again, I have doubts that your sims were done correctly considering they are drastically different than what both me and Jazdia have gotten.

I know i was uploading a simulation result where the stats was upside down. I made a lot of different simulations vary fight length, stats, raidbuffs etc. And the only difference in our results where that i often had Mastery in lowest priority where you had Hit and Expertise in lowest priority.
I do still recommend everyone to get the exact results for their character to run the simulations what stat scaling and go from there.

Originally Posted by Lyelol

Just achieved rank 1 world on Elegon 25m, beating second place by 3k, and beating second place feral(DoC) by 20k. I was using a 442 iLvl caster wep + HotW, reforged to max haste/crit, dropping exp/hit cap. HotW is in a very good place right now and I'd like to see what could be done with a 463, alas I haven't had one drop yet. Hopefully this talent doesn't get nerfed any time soon, I see it becoming weaker once the melee weapon is a tier or two above spellcaster weapon, at which DoC will probably be stronger.

Gratz for the rank, And yes HotW is really depending on your casters weapon available it depends on wether you got the luxury to roll on them as "off spec" and how well the diffrent setups will scale in higher gears.

hey having a bit of trouble testing this out on dummies maybe you guys can help.

using natures virgil atm for the insane busrt with berserk, but what about DoC for the rip/rake 25%extra damage i take it this is ALOT better, also off healing is nice.

another question though, does rip still take a "snapshot " of your buffs and last those buffs on the spell the entire duration? so it it still mandatory to rebuff rip with a TF .

and if so will the DoC proc work with TF for a 40% increased dmg on bleeds. should boost my dps alot.

or is HoTW better and wrath spam? have just read this and not sure what to make of it

ty in advance

Rip snapshot buffs and combo point when applied and wont resnapshot buffs if refreshed or extended on if reapplied so yes having DoC+Tiger's Fury and preferably more buffs like trinkets and pots would increase damage a lot when you enter "Blood in the Water" phase.
if you have a spellcasters weapon handy then it'll probably be better out going HotW and Wrath spam :-)