--- Log opened Wed Jan 23 00:00:16 2013
00:05 -!- erik_feneur [~Erik@h69n5-smy-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has left #0ad-dev []
00:37 -!- Enrique_ [webchat@sdcwebdproxy2.europe.hp.net] has quit [Ping timeout]
00:39 -!- hasufell [~jule@blfd-4d08255f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Signed off]
00:45 -!- Enrique [webchat@sdcwebdproxy4.europe.hp.net] has joined #0ad-dev
01:14 -!- safekeeping [~safekeepi@c-68-36-167-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #0ad-dev
01:45 -!- Enrique [webchat@sdcwebdproxy4.europe.hp.net] has quit [Ping timeout]
01:53 -!- Enrique [webchat@sdcwebdproxy4.europe.hp.net] has joined #0ad-dev
01:54 -!- stwf [~stwf@ool-18be0ffa.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #0ad-dev
02:20 hmm, a forum member just made a whole bunch of semi relevant but blank topics: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showforum=18
02:20 historicbruno: stwf: What do you think? Delete them and politely ask him to have content to put in them first?
02:21 hmm: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16972&st=40#entry261445
02:21 That's why he did it…. I got a bunch of empty threads in my new topics report though, which is annoying
02:23 < stwf> it is quite annoying but if there is enough content to fill them he probabbly means well
02:23 < stwf> It probably should be a sub topic though if there is that much interest, right k776
02:24 < stwf> ?
02:25 I suppose
02:35 -!- Enrique [webchat@sdcwebdproxy4.europe.hp.net] has quit [Ping timeout]
02:44 -!- k776 [~Kieran_P@118-93-85-181.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
03:43 -!- historicbruno [~Ben@historicbruno.users.quakenet.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:57 -!- Enrique [webchat@bbnwebdproxy4.europe.hp.net] has joined #0ad-dev
04:09 < Enrique> Zaggy1024: http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6329/asianelenewmeshtopology.jpg
04:23 -!- stwf [~stwf@ool-18be0ffa.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com]
04:42 -!- Enrique [webchat@bbnwebdproxy4.europe.hp.net] has quit [Ping timeout]
04:43 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout]
04:50 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
04:59 -!- fcxSanya [~Alexander@91.243.103.157] has joined #0ad-dev
05:10 -!- scientist [~scientist@175.103.29.146] has joined #0ad-dev
05:16 -!- HaelDb1 [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
05:19 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
05:44 -!- Mythos_Ruler [webchat@c-67-175-82-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #0ad-dev
05:44 -!- xanax` [~x@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #0ad-dev
05:49 < alpha123> Oh, hi Mythos_Ruler.
05:49 < Mythos_Ruler> O hai
05:50 < alpha123> Didn't expect seeing anyone here at this time of day.
05:50 < Mythos_Ruler> 12:50 AM here. I got off of work around 12 midnight.
05:50 < alpha123> ! What do you do?
05:50 < alpha123> 10:50 pm here
05:53 < alpha123> BTW, I decided I really like giving certain civs' walls scorpion bolts.
06:11 -!- xanax` [~x@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130116073211]]
06:12 < Mythos_Ruler> alpha123: I work in a factory. :)
06:12 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
06:13 -!- HaelDb1 [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
06:25 < alpha123> Mythos_Ruler: Ah, okay. Anyway, you're probably headed to bed soon? I am.
06:26 < alpha123> And they don't let you out til midnight? Ouch.
06:28 < Mythos_Ruler> 330-12
06:31 < alpha123> Well, I guess that's not so bad. (Sometimes.) Anyway, I'm getting to bed now. Good night.
06:32 -!- safekeeping [~safekeepi@c-68-36-167-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Signed off]
06:32 < alpha123> BTW, if you want some good laughs (and your brain destroyed), read the 1-22-2013 #0ad-dev log. :D
06:32 -!- alpha123 [~turkchess@71-212-143-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #0ad-dev []
06:54 -!- scientist [~scientist@175.103.29.146] has quit [Ping timeout]
06:58 -!- ricotz [~rico@p5B2ACCEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #0ad-dev
07:08 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has left #0ad-dev []
07:18 -!- HaelDb1 [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
08:12 -!- Mythos_Ruler [webchat@c-67-175-82-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
08:39 -!- FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #0ad-dev
08:53 -!- FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout]
09:18 -!- Garr [~Garr@public92139.xdsl.centertel.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
09:31 -!- Garr [~Garr@public58434.xdsl.centertel.pl] has joined #0ad-dev
09:47 -!- fcxSanya [~Alexander@91.243.103.157] has quit [Ping timeout]
09:49 -!- fcxSanya [~Alexander@91.243.103.157] has joined #0ad-dev
10:30 -!- erle- [~m@f052135032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #0ad-dev
10:49 -!- HaelDb1 [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:50 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
10:50 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has left #0ad-dev []
10:52 -!- erle- [~m@f052135032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit]
10:55 -!- erle- [~m@f052135032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #0ad-dev
13:02 -!- erle- [~m@f052135032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit]
13:19 -!- fcxSanya [~Alexander@91.243.103.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:06 -!- Garr [~Garr@public58434.xdsl.centertel.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
14:15 -!- michaelb [~michaelb@177.97.94.53] has quit [Ping timeout]
14:19 -!- Garr [~Garr@public94639.xdsl.centertel.pl] has joined #0ad-dev
14:22 -!- michaelb [~michaelb@187.112.49.135] has joined #0ad-dev
14:45 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
14:50 -!- hasufell [~jule@blfd-4d08f4c1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #0ad-dev
15:30 -!- leper [~leper@188-22-56-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #0ad-dev
15:47 -!- erle- [~m@f052135032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #0ad-dev
15:55 -!- qwertz [webchat@HSI-KBW-082-212-050-166.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #0ad-dev
16:17 -!- HaelDb1 [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
16:17 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:29 -!- Enrique [webchat@88.36.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #0ad-dev
16:30 < Enrique> hi
16:30 < leper> hi
16:31 < leper> Nice work on the asian elephant
16:31 < leper> (I think it could be a bit smaller than the african though)
16:31 < Enrique> sure, no problem
16:32 < Enrique> I'll stop feeding him
16:32 < leper> that will show him how to behave!
16:32 < leper> :D
16:32 < Enrique> :P
16:34 < sorcix> lol
16:55 < Enrique> hey nice, I see you fixed sliding :)
16:58 < Enrique> and now fortresses and docks are 25% faster to build
16:58 < Enrique> I'm ok with docks, but not sure if the fortresses building faster is a nice move
16:58 < leper> Should fix it for good :-)
16:58 < Enrique> yay! :)
16:59 < leper> hm faster fortresses? I think I'll try that on alpha :D
16:59 < Enrique> hahaha
16:59 < sorcix> Make it faster unless the player name is "Enrique".
16:59 < leper> lol
16:59 < sorcix> That'd work.
16:59 < Enrique> muhahaha
17:00 < leper> alpha would request adding me to that list too
17:00 < sorcix> Would make a great random bug report in a few years. Hahaha.
17:00 < sorcix> Hi, I'm Enrique, it looks like this game won't let me win!
17:00 < Enrique> idk, fortresses had a nice building time IMO
17:00 < Enrique> docks on the other hand were too slow to build
17:00 < leper> I'll remove the battle tracks from the mauryan civ json though
17:01 < leper> (why do we have generic battle tracks?)
17:01 < Enrique> ¿?
17:02 < leper> Mythos added them to the json file, but Paul had already added them for all civs...
17:03 < Enrique> type = battle
17:04 < Enrique> nvm, I don't know about json and that stuff: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bDgr2RPldjk/T8FSlTDnxJI/AAAAAAAABQA/Ycsn1EZWtL0/s1600/a980a3d1_I_Have_No_Idea_What_I_m_Doing.jpeg
17:04 < leper> lol
17:05 < Enrique> I'm going to play a match then
17:05 -!- xanax` [~x@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #0ad-dev
17:05 < Enrique> and check those fortresses
17:05 < Enrique> I should pick romans to spam camps :P
17:06 < leper> were they boosted too?
17:06 < Enrique> oh, they're special building, probably not
17:06 < Enrique> nvm
17:06 < Enrique> I still not fully awake
17:07 < Enrique> night shift is killing me
17:10 < Enrique> Anyone wants a 2vs2 SVN?
17:10 < Enrique> we just need one
17:11 < Enrique> (I dont want ffa) they want to choose iberians
17:12 -!- FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #0ad-dev
17:31 -!- bo0st [~luke@p4FD14C93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #0ad-dev
17:35 -!- bo0st [~luke@p4FD14C93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
17:36 -!- b00st [~luke@p4FD14C93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #0ad-dev
18:07 -!- quantumstate [~jonathan@cpc3-smal11-2-0-cust850.perr.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #0ad-dev
18:19 -!- Enrique is now known as Enrique_away
18:20 < qwertz> leper: for a in get_stats(stats, ["Attack", ("Melee" or "Ranged"), "Bonuses", None]): TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not iterable. Why that? This is from the roman ballista, there is information in the templates, so i'm unsure why i get an NoneType. Is it because it stops as soon as it finds some ?
18:21 < leper> If it can't find something it returns None
18:21 < leper> and that should be , "Melee",
18:21 < leper> and , "Ranged",
18:22 < leper> (two calls)
18:28 < leper> hm, I can reproduce that, seems like there is a bug :-/
18:28 < qwertz> why two calls?
18:28 < qwertz> doesn't python understand the or statement there?
18:30 < leper> it does understand it, but I don't think my code handles that ;-)
18:30 -!- FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout]
18:31 < qwertz> I can't use None there, as it also considers Charge then
18:32 < leper> ah, does work just fine (I was just a bit confused)
18:32 < leper> You just have to check if the value returned by get_stats is not None
18:32 < leper> and only in that case do the iteration
18:33 < leper> hm maybe we should add a wrapper that just returns [] if get_stats returns None
18:36 < qwertz> nah it doesn't really work
18:37 < qwertz> i can only avoid getting an error with an is not None check
18:37 < qwertz> but dafacto the roman ballista should be bonused vs. structures
18:37 < leper> I have a fix, wait a bit
18:38 -!- Enrique_away is now known as Enrique
18:39 < leper> got it?
18:43 < qwertz> Yes, I get no more errors, but it still doesn't recognize the bonuses in template_unit_mechanical_siege_onager
18:44 < qwertz> which should be applied for the ballista if i understand it correctly
18:44 < leper> what are you calling get_stats with?
18:44 < Enrique> anyone here knows who made the elephant textures?
18:44 < qwertz> (by the way, why does the roman ballista refer to the onager template and not to the ballista template?)
18:44 < leper> I get the proper output using "for a in get_stats(stats, ["Attack", "Ranged", "Bonuses", None]):"
18:45 < leper> I have no idea, ask Mythos
18:46 < leper> (but I think Pureon was working on an Onager for the Romans, so maybe the ballista is just a placeholder?)
18:47 < qwertz> So i'll have to do one run with Melee and one with Ranged?
18:47 < leper> yes
18:47 < leper> or use None and filter out Charge
18:48 -!- aurium_ [~aurium@177.42.196.180] has joined #0ad-dev
18:55 -!- FLHerne [~quassel@217.155.24.22] has joined #0ad-dev
18:55 -!- alpha123 [~turkchess@71-212-143-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #0ad-dev
18:56 * alpha123 is glad the IRC logs aren't like yesterday's o_O
18:56 -!- leper is now known as k776
18:56 < k776> Why?
18:56 < alpha123> *facepalm*
18:56 -!- alpha123 is now known as lepet
18:56 < lepet> :D
18:57 < k776> lol
18:57 -!- lepet is now known as leper
18:57 -!- k776 is now known as alpha123
18:57 < alpha123> so...
18:57 < leper> I should never have brought that up.
18:57 < leper> s/I/alpha123/
18:58 < alpha123> Now you're learning it the /nick way :P
18:58 < qwertz> it works, even though the code is getting long again :D
18:58 < leper> Oh good. Glad you got that fixed.
18:59 < alpha123> qwertz: Loops! ;-)
18:59 < leper> alpha123: I'm supposed to be helping him! ;D
18:59 < alpha123> then why don't you fix that code? :P
18:59 < leper> ...I'm, uh, amnesic.
18:59 < leper> Don't remember the code that well.
19:01 -!- leper is now known as k776
19:02 -!- alpha123 is now known as leper
19:04 -!- k776 is now known as alpha123
19:04 * alpha123 whoises us just to be sure :P
19:06 * leper still isn't sure if we got it right...
19:06 < alpha123> Whois doesn't lie... usually....
19:07 < alpha123> (Also good thing the "fake" k776 isn't logged in.)
19:07 < leper> We should find proxies near each other and one day join using the other name...
19:07 < alpha123> lol
19:07 < alpha123> That would be awesome.
19:08 -!- alpha123 is now known as wtgbot
19:08 * wtgbot doesn't think anyone will fall for this. :P
19:08 -!- wtgbot is now known as alpha123
19:09 -!- leper is now known as HaelDb2
19:09 < HaelDb2> better?
19:09 < alpha123> lol
19:09 < alpha123> Getting there. :P
19:09 -!- HaelDb2 is now known as alpha124
19:09 < alpha124> wait
19:09 < alpha123> ...Nice try.
19:09 -!- alpha124 is now known as k777
19:10 < alpha123> (although on freenode ##javascript there is a guy named alpha1256 or something like that)
19:10 < k777> hm
19:10 -!- alpha123 is now known as Zaggy2048
19:10 < k777> lol
19:11 -!- Zaggy2048 is now known as quantum5tate
19:12 -!- k777 is now known as leper
19:12 < quantum5tate> It's pitiful how we amuse ourselves. :P
19:12 -!- quantum5tate is now known as alpha123
19:13 < leper> and I think I found a bug in my irc client (not caused by too fast name changing)
19:13 < alpha123> Nice. :P
19:13 -!- FLHerne [~quassel@217.155.24.22] has quit [Ping timeout]
19:14 * quantumstate thinks leper uses a libpurple based client
19:14 -!- leper [~leper@188-22-56-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:18 -!- leper [~leper@188-22-56-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #0ad-dev
19:19 < leper> quantumstate: right
19:19 < quantumstate> pidgin?
19:19 < alpha123> leper: I can't find what IRC client uses "Quit: Leaving." as the default parting message. :( Is my Google-fu not up to par?
19:19 < leper> yes
19:20 < quantumstate> what is the bug?
19:20 < leper> You aren't highlighted as yourself, the user you changed to is present twice in the list and maybe something more
19:21 -!- quantumstate is now known as lepet
19:21 -!- lepet is now known as quantumstate
19:21 * quantumstate cannot reproduce
19:22 * alpha123 can't even get Pidgin to connect. :P
19:22 -!- leper is now known as leper1
19:22 -!- leper1 is now known as leper12
19:22 < leper12> I can :P
19:22 -!- quantumstate is now known as quantum1
19:22 -!- quantum1 is now known as quantum2
19:23 -!- leper12 is now known as leper
19:23 < leper> a
19:23 < quantum2> ahah
19:23 -!- quantum2 is now known as quantum3
19:23 < leper> got it?
19:23 -!- alpha1231 [~peter@71-212-143-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #0ad-dev
19:23 < quantum3> hmm
19:23 < quantum3> yes
19:23 -!- alpha1231 is now known as alpha1234
19:23 -!- quantum3 is now known as quantumstate
19:23 -!- alpha1234 is now known as alpha12345
19:24 < alpha12345> hi
19:24 < leper> quantumstate: ?
19:24 < leper> (does that ping you?)
19:24 < quantumstate> indeed not highlighted
19:24 < Enrique> lol you are having fun here
19:24 < alpha12345> I can't seem to reproduce.
19:25 < leper> alpha12345: Change faster
19:25 -!- alpha12345 is now known as alpha123_
19:25 -!- quantumstate [~jonathan@cpc3-smal11-2-0-cust850.perr.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:25 -!- alpha123_ is now known as alpha123`
19:25 < alpha123`> ...
19:25 -!- quantumstate [~jonathan@cpc3-smal11-2-0-cust850.perr.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #0ad-dev
19:26 < quantumstate> yo
19:26 -!- alpha123` [~peter@71-212-143-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #0ad-dev []
19:26 -!- leper [~leper@188-22-56-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:27 -!- Enrique [webchat@88.36.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:32 -!- leper [~leper@188-22-56-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #0ad-dev
19:32 < alpha123> The poor people in #0ad must be very confused. Look over there, it's just "abc changes nick to xyz"...
19:32 < quantumstate> lol
19:32 < leper> So the same as yesterday :D
19:32 < alpha123> :P
19:33 < alpha123> Yesterday it was even worse.... (remind me not to change my nick to alpha123-gone or alpha123playing ever again :P)
19:34 < leper> alpha123: I will by using /nick alpha123 :P
19:34 < leper> btw did you reproduce it too?
19:34 < alpha123> No, I didn't manage to. :/
19:35 < alpha123> Maybe you two are on older versions?
19:36 < alpha123> #0ad-dev: Finding bugs in libpurple at #0ad's expense since 2013 :D
19:36 -!- evans_ [~evans@122.172.189.136] has joined #0ad-dev
19:37 < quantumstate> I'm on pidgin 2.10
19:37 < leper> 2.10.6 which is the latest
19:37 < quantumstate> *2.10.0
19:37 < alpha123> 2.10.6 over here too.
19:37 < alpha123> Maybe I just don't change fast enough. :|
19:37 < leper> just copy the whole /nick line and try again :P
19:38 < quantumstate> (ctrl up arrow)
19:39 < leper> or that (depending on what is faster for you)
19:39 < alpha123> I think Pidgin hates me. I can't even seem to join. :P
19:40 -!- alpha1231 [~peter@71-212-143-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #0ad-dev
19:40 -!- alpha1231 is now known as alpha1234
19:40 -!- alpha1234 is now known as alpha12345
19:40 < alpha12345> hi
19:41 < leper> alpha12345:
19:42 < alpha12345> Hi. Everthing seems normal.
19:42 < leper> moar changing
19:42 < alpha12345> (Not present twice in the user list, highlighted correctly.)
19:42 -!- alpha12345 is now known as alpha123456
19:42 -!- alpha123456 is now known as alpha1234567
19:42 < alpha1234567> ...
19:42 < leper> ?
19:42 < alpha1234567> Found it.
19:43 < leper> alpha1234567: This doesn't ping you either?
19:43 < alpha1234567> At least I'm in the user list twice.
19:43 < leper> Now change your nick again
19:43 -!- alpha1234567 is now known as alpha1245
19:43 < alpha1245> Oh, that's weird.
19:43 < alpha1245> I definitely got it.
19:44 < leper> Should I just open a bug report and point them to our log? :D
19:44 < alpha1245> ...That would be horrible.
19:44 < alpha1245> YEAH!
19:44 < alpha1245> I can take a screenshot or something if you want.
19:44 < leper> why not
19:47 < alpha1245> http://i.imgur.com/X3wmfA8.jpg
19:47 -!- alpha1245 [~peter@71-212-143-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #0ad-dev []
20:04 -!- qwertz [webchat@HSI-KBW-082-212-050-166.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Ping timeout]
20:19 -!- alpha123 is now known as alpha123-lunch
20:19 < alpha123-lunch> (risky, I know)
20:23 -!- Enrique__ [webchat@88.36.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #0ad-dev
20:42 -!- alpha123-lunch is now known as alpha123
20:42 < alpha123> *phew*
20:56 -!- qwertz [webchat@HSI-KBW-082-212-050-166.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #0ad-dev
20:56 < qwertz> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ysbbnzg8dtawktz/aua.py is there a mistake somewhere in line 251-261? It doesn't even do print('bla')-commands afterwards... :S
20:57 -!- Arthur_D [~Arthur_D@ti0076a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:57 < leper> you have a return there
20:58 < leper> and you can just use 'if not os.path.isfile(..):'
21:00 < leper> (and don't have the first if at all)
21:00 < qwertz> Hm, okay
21:06 -!- xanax`` [~x@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #0ad-dev
21:11 -!- Netsplit *.net *.split quits: xanax`, ricotz
21:11 -!- xanax`` is now known as xanax`
21:15 -!- Netsplit over, joins: ricotz
21:15 -!- Arthur_D [~Arthur_D@c7A9D45C1.static.as2116.net] has joined #0ad-dev
21:19 -!- Enrique__ [webchat@88.36.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout]
21:21 < leper> alpha123: #15478
21:24 -!- erik_feneur [~Erik@h69n5-smy-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #0ad-dev
21:25 -!- xanax` [~x@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130116073211]]
21:28 -!- Brynn [webchat@ip98-163-116-123.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #0ad-dev
21:33 -!- Brynn [webchat@ip98-163-116-123.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #0ad-dev []
21:35 -!- FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #0ad-dev
21:43 -!- ricotz [~rico@p5B2ACCEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
21:48 < leper> Yay, got the athenian long walls tech (making walls buildable in neutral territory) to work
21:50 < quantumstate> hmm, there don't seem to be any tools to deal with patch merge conflicts
21:50 < quantumstate> leper: sounds nice
21:50 < leper> took me some time to figure out that the preview entites have a template name of "preview|..."
21:51 < leper> and previews are now playercoloured
21:54 < alpha123> leper: What? (15478)
21:54 < leper> pidgin ticket :P
21:54 < alpha123> Oh. :P
21:55 < alpha123> Did you direct them to our log? :D
21:55 < leper> No, that would have been to evil ;-)
21:55 < alpha123> lol, yes :P
21:55 < leper> I did include the screenshot though (and everyone curious enough can find the log without searching too long)
21:56 < alpha123> Good. :)
21:56 < alpha123> Was that ticket for both the highlighting issue and the appearing twice in the user list?
21:56 < quantumstate> anyone know a good way to apply an out of date patch?
21:57 < alpha123> Manually. :/
21:57 < quantumstate> "a good way"
21:57 < leper> alpha123: yes, I think the first causes the second
21:57 < alpha123> quantumstate: What, don't you like reading diffs?
21:57 < alpha123> leper: Hmm, okay.
21:57 < quantumstate> I am fine reading them, I am less fine manually applying them
21:58 < leper> pathfinder?
21:58 < quantumstate> yes
21:58 < quantumstate> I don't want to roll back 9 months of svn
21:58 < leper> what about using git and applying to a revision that worked and then rebasing?
21:58 < quantumstate> I don't even know when it works
21:59 < leper> hm
21:59 < quantumstate> maybe I will just manually apply the conflicts, there aren't too many
21:59 < quantumstate> the previous department I was I at work had a lovely merge setup
22:00 < quantumstate> probably because 75% of my commits had a merge conflict
22:00 < quantumstate> so you need a good tool then
22:00 < leper> that's both interesting and frightening at the same time
22:00 < quantumstate> but that requires having 3 full files
22:01 < quantumstate> mfc GUI stuff
22:01 < leper> mfc gui
22:01 * leper screams and runs
22:01 * quantumstate doesn't blame you
22:01 < qwertz> my colleague proposed the use of pathintegrals for pathfinding :D
22:01 < quantumstate> all of the gui was specified in 1 file, another file contained constants for all of the gui
22:02 < leper> ugh!
22:02 < quantumstate> then the config system :S
22:02 < alpha123> Hate to interrupt you guys (but at least maybe it'll take your mind off MFC), but, I just played a game against Oimat, and it says he killed 390 but it says I lost 389!?
22:02 < quantumstate> their excuse was that the code base was bought from a different company
22:02 < quantumstate> did you resign?
22:03 < alpha123> No.
22:03 < alpha123> (Although he did)
22:03 < alpha123> It also says he lost 576 and I killed 575, so I attribute that to wild animals or something (although I didn't see any).
22:04 < quantumstate> leper: my favourite mfc thing is trying to do selection on a scrolling list box
22:04 -!- Enrique_ [webchat@bbnwebdproxy5.europe.hp.net] has joined #0ad-dev
22:05 < erik_feneur> alpha123: Sounds like he killed one of his own units then =) :P
22:05 < quantumstate> guess which of scrollToPos() and select() (possibly not exact function names) will cause the box to scroll?
22:05 < quantumstate> friendly fire?
22:05 < leper> I don't remember too much from doing mfc, but nearly everything feeled clumsy
22:05 < alpha123> quantumstate: That explains his loss (he had catapults)
22:06 < leper> quantumstate: none of them?
22:06 < quantumstate> yes, it runs through message passing which leads to some interesting hacks
22:06 < quantumstate> leper: nope, selecting an item does
22:06 < quantumstate> scrollToPos only scrolls the scrollbar not the contents
22:06 < alpha123> lol
22:06 < leper> mfc!
22:06 -!- evans_ [~evans@122.172.189.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:07 < alpha123> The guy who came up with that better have gotten fired.
22:07 < quantumstate> then I found that selecting a range doesn't cause it to scroll
22:07 < quantumstate> so I thought I would select a range of size 1 instead
22:07 < leper> Consistent design ;-)
22:07 < leper> which scrolls
22:08 < alpha123> Foolish consistency is the hallmark of a small mind. :P
22:08 < quantumstate> nope, wrong again leper
22:08 * leper is fond of not remembering mfc!
22:08 < quantumstate> unfortunately due to the message passing rubbish they could only use 2 arguments, but 3 were exposed in the function
22:08 < quantumstate> range_start, range_end and select/deselect boolean
22:09 < quantumstate> so cleverly they used the idea that if range start < range end then select otherwise deselect
22:09 < quantumstate> which of course means that for a single item range start == range end
22:09 < quantumstate> so it will only ever deselect
22:10 < alpha123> That's horrifying.
22:10 < leper> should have been a <= so you could have moved on
22:10 < quantumstate> so my final solution was select everything and deselect everything I don't want with a nice comment pointing out how broken mfc was
22:12 < quantumstate> how to turn 10 minutes work into 1 day of hackery
22:12 < leper> s/hackery/advanced black magic/
22:14 < quantumstate> of course they can't fix it or it will break everyones layered hacks
22:16 < quantumstate> thankfully I now work on other things which involve no mfc
22:16 < leper> which will get even worse over time, but nobody will ask management to rewrite that abomination...
22:16 < quantumstate> it is deprecated now ;)
22:16 < leper> uuuh
22:17 < alpha123> You have a smart manager. :P
22:17 < leper> :-)
22:17 < alpha123> WPF is actually pretty nice if you still have to write Windows desktop stuff.
22:17 < quantumstate> to be fair that department has assigned someone to evaluate QT
22:18 < alpha123> Have you mentioned C++ isn't one of the most productive languages out there? :P
22:19 -!- ohaz [TKD@endless-aerospace.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
22:19 < quantumstate> it has its advantages
22:19 < quantumstate> (like speed)
22:20 < alpha123> Granted. IMO its disadvantages outweight its advantages.
22:20 < leper> alpha123: Yes, that isn't bad and a huge improvement over mfc
22:20 < leper> alpha123: You can write bad and ugly code in other languages easily
22:20 < alpha123> leper: In my experience, C++ makes that easier than most.
22:20 -!- HaelDb1 [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
22:21 < quantumstate> with some strong guidelines it can work pretty well
22:21 < quantumstate> though I will admit quite badly as well
22:21 < alpha123> To be fair, I've worked on all of two C++ projects, and SpiderMonkey's garbage collection ruined one of them for me....
22:22 < quantumstate> like whoever thought it would be clever to use the >> operator for matrix transforms
22:22 < alpha123> Or for reading from a stream. >_<
22:22 < quantumstate> and then someone added inverse transforms so that was <<
22:23 < alpha123> It has nice symmetry, at least. :P
22:23 < quantumstate> and then someone thought it would be neat if you could apply the transforms from the right and left so M >> v and v >> M
22:23 < alpha123> It could be worse. Scala uses the :/ -emoticon- operator for reduce.
22:24 < quantumstate> except now nobody can remember what is a forward and inverse transform so the pick one randomly and switch it if it breaks stuff
22:24 < quantumstate> (I asked about this and that was the answer I got)
22:26 < quantumstate> but generally as long as you aren't stupid C++ can work well
22:27 < quantumstate> using RAII makes memory much easier to handle than C
22:27 < leper> keeps the goto's away (compared to C)
22:33 < quantumstate> :( found we have some nasty code
22:33 < quantumstate> If (...) do_a else if (...) do_b, else do_a
22:33 < quantumstate> the ...'s are mutually exclusive
22:36 -!- ohaz [TKD@endless-aerospace.de] has joined #0ad-dev
22:41 -!- erle- [~m@f052135032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit]
22:44 -!- alpha123 is now known as alpha123-gone
22:44 < alpha123-gone> leper: I know what you're thinking. Don't.
22:45 < leper> Yeah, and do you know what I should put in as a commit message?
22:45 < leper> :P
22:45 * quantumstate finished merging, any bets of the chance of it compiling?
22:46 < leper> missing include
22:46 < Enrique_> pathfinder? are you going to work in it? :O
22:46 < quantumstate> maybe, I'll see how it goes
22:46 < Enrique_> wohoo
22:46 < quantumstate> it is sort of needed for charging
22:47 < Enrique_> :) good news
22:47 < quantumstate> to some extent, though I don't understand it well enough yet to know how necessary it will be
22:47 < quantumstate> there is the other guy on the forums as well
22:48 < quantumstate> leper: I only got 1 undeclared function
22:49 < leper> I was close :D
22:49 -!- b00st [~luke@p4FD14C93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout]
22:49 < leper> Maybe you could update the patch if you get it to compile
22:50 < quantumstate> that is the plan
22:50 < quantumstate> though I think getting it to compile is a low bar
22:52 < quantumstate> everything other than the tests compiles (after commenting out 2 lines)
22:52 -!- FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [EOF from client]
22:54 < quantumstate> hmm the templates look like they need to be changed
22:56 < quantumstate> ah I commented out leper's lines
22:57 < leper> ?
22:57 < quantumstate> r12915
22:58 < quantumstate> it calls some pathfinder stuff which Philip had changed
22:58 < quantumstate> obstruction stuff rather
22:59 < leper> ah
23:03 < quantumstate> units walked!
23:04 < quantumstate> then I got a nice assertion failure
23:04 < leper> progress! :-)
23:05 < quantumstate> it looks like it is working if I suppress it
23:05 < quantumstate> stuff walked around buildings
23:05 < quantumstate> basically commitable :P
23:07 * quantumstate thinks k777 would have his head
23:07 < leper> If you commit it and it doesn't crash k777 will build a monument for you
23:09 < quantumstate> well so far I have found that AI's stop working (no pathfinder info), I got 1 assertion failure so far
23:10 < Philip`> quantumstate: About patching: I'd probably use git, checkout the old revision, apply the patch, then rebase, since that should let it do a three-way merge (using whatever merge tool you prefer)
23:10 < quantumstate> Philip`: it almost applied cleanly, only about 6 things to resolve
23:10 < quantumstate> but I might do that in the future
23:11 < quantumstate> (also the things to resolve were genuine conflicts)
23:11 < quantumstate> also do you have a recollection of what didn't work?
23:12 < Philip`> alpha123-gone: I thought it was a hobgoblin, not a hallmark
23:15 * Philip` deals with a lot of C code that has giant chains of "error_mutex: pthread_mutex_delete(&m); error_sem: sem_delete(&s); error_thread: ...; error_malloc: free(buf); exit: return status;" at the end of many functions, and hates it :-(
23:16 < Philip`> quantumstate: I think the things that didn't work were mostly fairly subtle and easy to miss and hard to remember
23:17 < Philip`> (Also, AI)
23:17 < quantumstate> what about unit sizes?
23:17 < Philip`> (Also, it's slow)
23:17 < quantumstate> just tried a ram and it seemed to fit through a small gap
23:17 < Philip`> I think that's just missing changes in the data files
23:18 < Philip`> You need to give every unit a movement class that specifies its approximate radius
23:18 < Philip`> ("approximate" as in there's no point being more precise than one cell (1/4 terrain tile))
23:19 < Philip`> since that movement class clearance value is used for all unit vs terrain/building pathfinding
23:19 < Philip`> though the precise obstruction radius is still used for unit vs unit pathfinding
23:22 < Philip`> (I think there's no technical reason the radius and clearance need to have any relation to each other (though check pathfinder.pdf in case there's some documented constraint I'm forgetting) - though they ought to match well enough to avoid it looking stupid)
23:23 < Philip`> (Also, try hard to minimise the total number of movement classes, since they're pretty expensive)
23:23 < quantumstate> ok, thanks
23:24 < Philip`> (I think I wanted to just have "small units" (1 cell) and "large units" (4 cells or whatever) and nothing in between)
23:24 < quantumstate> would I be right in thinking that larger movement classes would be cheaper?
23:24 < Philip`> No
23:24 < Philip`> Why would they be?
23:24 < alpha123-gone> Philip`: I've seen it both ways.
23:24 < alpha123-gone> (hobgoblin/hallmark)
23:24 < quantumstate> the grid might be subsampled to near unit resolution
23:25 < quantumstate> but apparently not
23:25 < alpha123-gone> Best of luck (and skill) with the pathfinder quantumstate! :)
23:25 * alpha123-gone is gone again.
23:25 < Philip`> I've never understood what hobgoblins are, so it makes the saying more mysterious, which is good
23:26 < alpha123-gone> Yeah, but if everyone said the saying consistently, we'd all be small minded. xP
23:27 < Philip`> quantumstate: Everything uses the navcell grid, which defines boolean passability - if a unit has a large clearance then it effectively just blurs the passability data outwards a bit (i.e. any navcell within C cells of an impassable cell become impassable)
23:27 < quantumstate> yep, that makes sense
23:27 < Philip`> and then clearance is never used again after that
23:28 < Philip`> since it can pretend the units are infinitely thin, moving through the suitably blurred grid
23:29 < quantumstate> presumably the actual pathing algorithm can be changed without any interface changes?
23:29 -!- qwertz [webchat@HSI-KBW-082-212-050-166.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:30 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
23:30 < Philip`> Depends what you mean by "algorithm" and "interface"
23:31 < Philip`> I think there's a #define that lets you switch between the old-fashioned A* and the JPS A* algorithms
23:31 < Philip`> but that's the only thing you can switch
23:31 < quantumstate> once you have the point object moving around the JPS/... could be changed without affecting anything outside of the pathfinding code
23:33 < Philip`> There's a load of implicit dependencies between the pathfinder and a dozen other things (UnitMotion, unit spawning, AI, etc), so you can't switch out the whole of the new pathfinder for the old one without switching out all the other engine changes too
23:33 < quantumstate> oh :(
23:34 < quantumstate> I thought the new design would allow that to happen
23:34 < Philip`> Oh, you could sort of replace JPS with something totally new, though it's got to be something that operates on a sparse cell grid and finds paths non-incrementally and is fairly cheap to update the world state dynamically
23:34 < Philip`> etc
23:34 < Philip`> so you're pretty constrained in what algorithms you can choose
23:35 < quantumstate> ok
23:35 < Philip`> If you want to do something a bit more radically different (like vector fields or steering or whatever) then you'll probably need to change a lot more code
23:36 < quantumstate> yes I was expecting that
23:36 < Philip`> but there's probably still a lot of the new code and its high-level concepts that you could reuse
23:37 < quantumstate> that would be something to look at later anyway
23:37 < Philip`> since the fundamental concept of a highish-resolution uniform-cost navcell grid is reasonably universal
23:37 < Philip`> It's just the details that are tricky :-)
23:38 < quantumstate> voronoi stuff sounds cool
23:39 < quantumstate> anyway I should go to bed
23:39 < Philip`> That's got geometry and angles and non-integers though :-(
23:40 < Philip`> Good night
23:40 < quantumstate> voronoi stuff is at least useful for milling machine toolpaths
23:41 < Philip`> That sounds slightly different to what we're doing
23:41 < quantumstate> well...
23:41 < Philip`> You can do pathfinding with bacteria too, but I don't think that'd be suitable for our game :-)
23:42 < quantumstate> I was thinking I could use some of my work stuff, I could get the units going in a nice spiral pattern
23:44 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:45 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
23:45 < Philip`> I suppose that could be useful to model the behaviour of units that are very scared of the enemy, so they won't advance towards them very quickly at all, but are also scared of their commanding officer so they have to look like they're moving at full speed else they'll be shot for slacking
23:45 < Philip`> so they'll end up spiralling towards the enemy
23:45 -!- quantumstate [~jonathan@cpc3-smal11-2-0-cust850.perr.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
23:46 -!- aurium_ [~aurium@177.42.196.180] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
23:47 -!- leper [~leper@188-22-56-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #0ad-dev []
23:47 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:47 -!- HaelDb1 [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
23:50 -!- HaelDb1 [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:54 -!- historicbruno [~Ben@historicbruno.users.quakenet.org] has joined #0ad-dev
23:54 -!- mode/#0ad-dev [+o historicbruno] by Q
23:58 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #0ad-dev
23:59 -!- HaelDb [~Administr@cpe-72-190-39-234.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
--- Log closed Thu Jan 24 00:00:25 2013