Comments

Comment by Carighan

Even though I know many prefer Vile Poisons, I personally give this the slight advantage.

Makes poisons proc a tad more consistently, which in turn affects Envenom damage too - can stack up those poisons faster. Thinking about it, you proc Deadly Poison 25% faster with this, so provided you can rack in the CPs (easy with Mutilate), you can use 25% more Envenoms, resulting in 25% more Envenom damage.Compared to the 20% you get from Vile Poisons.

(Yes I know that Logic is flawed at multiple points, but just getting the basic idea of how to evaluate this vs. Vile across)

Comment by BoJlk

Even if Envenom does less damage then Eviscerate, Envenom is no mitigated by armor and can't be dodged, parried, missed (just resisted)Thus doing much more damage (if not in Combat tree)The crit chance is very small.My spacualation is that's a overall PVP ability because most likely you won't be in Combat tree if you're PVPing and Eviscerate is improved by the Combat tree (41 talent removing the dodge from abilities)

Comment by 109170

why not do both vile poisons and improved poisons its free damage across the board while im on the topic this can be done with dw specialization for more damage :D

Comment by 178373

Makes you wonder... if it'd work well in PvE combined with Deadly Brew and Infectious Poisons for added Instant Poison procs, while still racking up Deadly Poison stacks.

In PvP, I think one Shiv is all you need most of the time.

Comment by Mcdubbins

Currently in the beta - Deadly Brew does not work so i cant test that, but with Infectious Poisons and Improved Poisons, the proc rate is insane, I see more yellow numbers than I do white now, with instant on my main hand and deadly on my off hand, within 1-3 seconds the target has 5 charges of deadly already which makes chain envenoming a reality (also with vile and infectious poisons a 4-5 pt envenom will crit for 4k+ now at lvl 70)

Comment by 215604

WTB 25% back... and why the heck would they nerf it worst then in TBC, atleast give 10% chance to all poisons...

Comment by 145840

Combined with envenom chance this talent was extremely potent. It was first 25% all poisons. Then 15% all poisons and now 10% deadly and Instant. 15% would still have been acceptable by alls means, but that is something for the wow forums.

As for now, this talent has partially lost it's worth in pvp, as it no longer increases chance to apply crippling, wound or mind numbing. Only use would be to keep deadly up more frequent as a despell shield for poisons.

Comment by L33tsauce

When you can just Shiv to instantly apply Deadly for the Mutilate damage increase, this talent seems really useless.

Comment by tompatomp

To make instant poison deal more damage than Wound poison you need:1: have 5 talents in improved poisons.2: have more than 3046 ap. (since instant poison scale more from ap than wound)

So for a combat rogue in pve, wound/wound or wound/deadly is the way to go.

For a mutilate rogue with full improved poisons and over 3046 attack power, instant poison is better.

Comment by L33tsauce

Holy 50% Instant Poison chance increase, Batman!

Comment by friedchicken17

3.0.8 live "Increases the chance to apply Instant and Deadly Poison to your target by 10%"

3.1 PTR "Increases the chance to apply Deadly Poison to your target by 10% and the frequency of applying Instant Poison to your target by 50%."

Sounds like a pretty nice buff at first glance right?NopeNormal Frequency of Application is 20%. 50% of 20% is about 10% if my my calculator isn't broke....This seems like an overly complex way of saying the exact same thing, and just confuse more people into getting itUnless there is something else that i am not aware of that increases the frequency of application of your instant poison, this is no change from the old talent

Comment by 33985

Patch 3.1.0:

Increases the chance to apply Deadly Poison to your target by 10% and the frequency of applying Instant Poison to your target by 50%.

The frequency of applying Instant Poison by 50% does not mean its a +50% increase to the proc chances.i.e. it WON'T make Instant Poison proc 70% of the time. That would be rediculous.

It makes the proc happen 50% more often.

Instant Poisons proc chance is 20%, so

1.5 * 20% = 30%

At first glance it doesnt look any different than the old version of the talent.But in Patch 3.1.0, Instant Poisons and Wound Poisons will proc based on the weapon speed (Currently normalized to 1.4 speed daggers).

With that in mind, here are the 3.1.0 Instant Poison proc chances WITHOUT the talent:

1.3 Speed - 18.57%

1.4 Speed - 20.00%

1.5 Speed - 21.43%

1.6 Speed - 22.86%

1.7 Speed - 24.29%

1.8 Speed - 25.71%

2.6 Speed - 37.14%

2.8 Speed - 40.00%

3.1.0 Instant Poison proc chances WITH the talent:

1.3 Speed - 27.86%

1.4 Speed - 30.00%

1.5 Speed - 32.14%

1.6 Speed - 34.29%

1.7 Speed - 36.43%

1.8 Speed - 38.57%

2.6 Speed - 55.71%

2.8 Speed - 60.00%

Just a FYI, like I said earlier the same math will apply for Wound Poisons.So while I'm at it, here's a list for the proc chances of Wound Poison:

1.3 Speed - 46.43%

1.4 Speed - 50.00%

1.5 Speed - 53.57%

1.6 Speed - 57.14%

1.7 Speed - 60.71%

1.8 Speed - 64.29%

2.6 Speed - 92.86%

2.8 Speed - 100.00%

Expect to see Combat rogues kick ass in 3.1.0 regardless whether they have this talent or not :)

Wound poison seems much better than istant but i dont know how much damage do each poison take from attack power: if its too different all my calcules would be unuseless and my post would be purged ç_ç but id like to know how do all poisons are involved with attack power.

Waiting for your answers.

Comment by 328349

Wow... seriously? You compare them without taking into AP, then conclude wound is better? Instant poison scales faster with AP, so you CANNOT make a comparison without taking into account AP.

Comment by DeathBlood

When talented correctly, it's possible for Rogues to have a 100% chance to apply Deadly Poison. This allows for more Envenom use, especially useful for PvE.

"Each strike has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy" -Deadly Poison"Increases the chance to apply Deadly Poison to your target by 10%" -Improved Poisons"Following the Envenom attack you have an additional 15% chance to apply Deadly Poison " -Envenom"increases the bonus chance to apply Deadly Poison when Envenom is used by an additional 45%". -Master Poisoner

Keep in mind, Precision increases chance to hit with poisons (not be resisted), not increasing the chance to apply poisons.

Regardless, with a 100% chance to apply Deadly Poison, this allows you to get more doses up on your target quicker, even faster with Slice and Dice. More 5-dose Envenoms means more dps. Sounds like common sense, but I've seen PvE Rogues take Turn the Tables over Master Poisoner; and that is a serious mistake, not just for missing out on the 3% crit chance utility being provided to the raid, but for the sacrifice in their own personal Envenom dps.

Comment by Sebreth

Comment by 320996

What exactly does "Increases the frequency of applying Instant Poison to your target by N%" mean? Does it mean instant poison application becomes detached from weapon speed? Poison application frequency is supposed to be tied to weapon speed since 3.1.0.

Comment by 258282

Gandazar is right, this talent clearly states a difference in frequency and application. i wish someone would link the EJ statistics on this

Comment by Swiftling

It may look like i waste the talent using it that way, but i take it for the Deadly Poison buff only. I would rather use Wound Poison no matter how much Attack Power i have, because of the debuff. Someone can say that 2x more damage is better than 50% lesser healing on the target, but that depends on the target itself and its teammates. Wound poison is the perfect poison if you're in doubt. Also i think that controlling the target with crippling poison will be a lot more easier because the chance to apply it will be greater.

Comment by bounchofbeaners

lol i still dont understand what the frequency of applying Instant Poison to your target by 50% means.