Does anyone, as I do, ever wonder why so many potentially good conversations, so rich in possibilities, completely falter and wither on the vine? Is this because the conversants are so differently oriented and their language and symbols are unintelligible to each other? Such that it 'angers' them that the other thinks differently? Is this just a peculiarity of GF? Is this just the end of the possibility of communication, the natural end, as of an organism?

Liberty Sea wrote: "Well, it is meant to be a question for you to ask yourself and yourself alone. If you, in your heart of hearts, can know what your honest answer to that question is, in everything you do and the reason why you are doing what you do, then no discourse from me is needed."

Sure, I agree. Except your question is and was really a statement about your own values, your own orientation. You did not start by 'sincerely engaging' me on my own terms, the terms of my discourse. The other part of this which I hope you can acknowledge is that GF is a special, distorted, dysfunctional locality. It is sort of like a poisoned well and in this exteriorizes an inner psychology of its founders. Ah but note my 'violent' interpretive thrust! In exactly the same way you might say: There is no hope for this donkey to realize (the) truth (of which I speak). He is deranged. He is 'deluded'. This forum is about both recognizing errors of understanding and thrusting correctives at others. Once you have seen this, once you understand that in such a space like this (as in a dystopic Beckett story), conversation ENDS, will you then be able to revitalize honest enquiry, even if that 'only' means knowing another human being on his terms...

Talking Ass wrote:Does anyone, as I do, ever wonder why so many potentially good conversations, so rich in possibilities, completely falter and wither on the vine? Is this because the conversants are so differently oriented and their language and symbols are unintelligible to each other? Such that it 'angers' them that the other thinks differently? Is this just a peculiarity of GF? Is this just the end of the possibility of communication, the natural end, as of an organism?

I don’t follow the long threads enough to responsibly participate. Maybe that’s the way it is with others.

Talking Ass wrote:Does anyone, as I do, ever wonder why so many potentially good conversations, so rich in possibilities, completely falter and wither on the vine? Is this because the conversants are so differently oriented and their language and symbols are unintelligible to each other? Such that it 'angers' them that the other thinks differently? Is this just a peculiarity of GF? Is this just the end of the possibility of communication, the natural end, as of an organism?

Or perhaps they weren't potentially as good at all and a kind soul tries to hit it at some stage with a stick like keisaku, to potentially save the little life left? Just another interpretation, mind you!

I do like the subject of languages and symbols becoming "unintelligible" amongst people, inside the cultural simulacra or just the distance between the essential schizophrenic and his alienated context. And yet at the same time there's much more going on with communication than simple friendly exchanges or knowledge transfer. It's possible to see it as powerfull orientations merciless battling for dominance, like a most clever advertisement campaign couched into friendly musings, chit-chat or academic level diatribes.

Sounds in the animal kingdom are made to tempt, reassure, to scare, to startle or to put at ease. The animal at peace is most often nearly silent. Noise comes when fighting or mating season starts! This is the "anger" in words and vibes between the words which is there, naturally. In words there is no neutral. Friends do not need much words anymore. But enemies do! And people loving their own words and yet being deeply conflicted about them as well.