the problem with forum type PM's is that the comments are not scrutinized for veracity and protected by the cloak of anonymity .

if you want to find out about a breeder , contact them and ask them to provide you with a list of an entire litters buyers . Pick a litter randomly. Example in 2012 they had a litter and there were 5 pups. Get the contact information of the buyers of those 5 pups and ask them . If there is a particular combination that you are interested in then get the data for dogs sold with those dogs and ask.

A breeder should be proud of what they are putting out.

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Carmen

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the problem with forum type PM's is that the comments are not scrutinized for veracity and protected by the cloak of anonymity .

Very true & something that should be kept in mind. Personally, I find PMs useful b/c there can be a more detailed exchange of information. Almost all of my PMs regarding breeders have been positive rather than negative. For that matter, while I might not be particularly 'sweet' I'm not sneaky & anybody I've PMed is welcome to repeat anything I've said. Still, Carmen, you make a very good point. I once exchanged several PMs discussing a breeder I've long felt 'meh' about & was told that another member had expressed similar concerns. Curious (b/c it's among the exalted breeders) I asked who the member was & was astonished to discover it's someone who publicly recommends the breeder (& still does!?!?)! I don't get that but whatever...Just another reason I prefer using my own judgment.

There really is no substitute for buyers knowing very clearly what they want, what they need, why particular qualities are important & seeking breeders who consistently produce dogs who embody those qualities. I am stunned at people who change their opinions in a nano sec based solely on internet info.

Carmen, I too prefer open & transparent. I frankly enjoy wide open boards. There have been threads on this board that were nothing more than an extended breeder bash fest despite the 'rules' against breeder bashing. I suspect that I (or the breeder if she knew) could have had em pulled they were *that* egregious, but I never tried b/c I believe a good breeder should be able to take the heat, whether 'deserved' or not. It goes with the territory.

Wide open, Wild West styled boards, often provide insight into people acting their worst, which can be helpful. This board has elected to do it differently which has advantages as well as disadvantages. In my experience, wide open boards have at least an many lying, conniving hypocrites working an agenda behind the scenes as more heavily moderated boards. PMs exist on those boards, too, & are used at least as extensively, often to nefarious purposes. A useful exchange of information & ideas can be tough when a board devolves into who SCREAMS the most & the loudest. Those aren't necessarily the ones most worth listening to & yet it can be hard to 'hear' others over their racket.

Ironically, I think in some ways a wide open board would be fairer to breeders. That way, if someone is trashing them or their dogs, they are aware of the accusations and can come on and defend themselves. There's usually two sides to every story and someone with an ax to grind against a particular breeder may well either misrepresent or omit relevant facts.

Of course, you should always take anything posted on the internet with a grain of salt. I think this is particularly true when it comes to dogs. I've owned a half dozen dogs over the last 20 years and loved each and every one of them. My natural inclination is to emphasize all the great qualities each dog possessed. I tend to forget that my beautiful Samoyed was also barky and obedience challenged, our noble and gentle Golden Retriever shook like a leaf and hid under the bed during thunder storms, and my last beloved GSD was not only loyal, intelligent and devoted but also occasionally dog aggressive.

And then there is the other side of the coin - an inexperienced owner who buys a dog for all the wrong reasons, keeps it chained to a tree all day, never trains it or socializes it, and then blames the breeder because it isn't like Rin Tin Tin.

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