I do remember Chateau saying something about how it worked better if they actually got in on the 28th...but you are right, I don't think we have any concrete evidence for that--but I'll leave this to you spreadsheet guys!

How dare those archeologists go traipsing off to non-Internet connected lands and not be able to be reached !

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"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Well, since we've got from the 25th to the 29th of April to play with for Leg Two, could it be possible that teams travelled on land through to Fortaleza? It's a twenty-hour bus ride (not unheard of on TAR), and flights would allow production to gain on the teams...

Or is Fortaleza simply a connection point (for production) for somewhere in the jungle? (This is presuming that the chainsaw is for the use of production to clear unforeseen obstacles, and not the use of the teams. Having a logging task in the Amazon would be sacrilegous in this age of global warming and what not!)

Politely, Neobie, there is NO WAY that AR13 teams took a 20 hour bus from Salvador to Forteleza. Why would they do that with time at a premium and the flights as short as 100 minutes? Production gains on the teams by leaving before teams are released from the pitstop. They don't need a boondoggle bus ride for the teams while they fly to get ahead. It's just basic scheduling which the WRP production crew is clearly excellent at.

On your "What do you guys think?", I think that we haven't got any clarity for Bolivia yet and it's too early to call it one way or the other.

Looks like Darren Bunkley could really just be connecting through Lisbon!

Darren found his way to Siem Reap after Lisbon. If he was headed there directly, here's the fastest combination I could find, which happens to include the TP156 he was on (33 hours of economy through four countries in three days! Aye-yi-yi!):

Salvador has few other non-stop flights to Europe (most going through Sao Paulo or Rio first), and even if he left earlier, on Friday morning, to catch the LAN flight from Santiago to Auckland, by Sunday 9am he'd make it to Sydney at best.

Of course, this transit could actually make TPTB consider putting Sequesterville in Portugal, and Darren could easily complete the Lisbon-Paris-Bangkok-Siem Reap legs on a later day! (Fortaleza also has non-stop flights to Lisbon.)

« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 08:01:56 AM by Neobie »

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Found out that Neobie in Chinese means "f*king awesome"! No, really. Look it up!

Let's start with some speculation. There is a major issue in figuring out where a previously not identified leg is. This arises because prior timelines have marked the legs up through leg 6 in Delhi. Since release from Delhi cannot be before May 7, there is not enough time left for teams to complete two full legs and fly to Moscow arriving midday May 12(which they have to do to meet the pitstop timing assumptions). So here are 3 alternatives to fix that:

1. Even though I say it is not enough time, WRP plans 3 legs between Delhi and Moscow.2. There was a second leg in Cambodia involving a TBC, then later a pitstop.3. There was a TBC leg in Santiago in spite of the piece of evidence that 1304 ends in Auckland.

Of these 3, I like the 2 legs in Cambodia best. Since teams apparently do not depart until the morning of May 6, they have about 48 hours to do so plus get in a TBC and later pitstop. I am changing this Timeline to reflect that.

Here is the updated Timetable:

AR13 TIMELINE

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Sao Paulo:

Since we know that the pitstop was in LPB, teams could have flown out of there or flown to SantaCruz to connect with the flights there.

4/30It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2 leg 4Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119 or 1325 1450 QF190 or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:1550 2215 TG996 1635 2255 QF3011700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:QF126 1435 1625NZ739 1530 1720EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725 or 1615 1815 QF134Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

5/4 continuedtasks and then TBC in Siem Reap area, followed by more tasks

It's time for a new updated timeline. Key new assumptions are that Delhi tasks will end on 5/7, making the release from the pitstop Thursday May 8, and that the missing pitstop is Astana, Kazakhstan. The Delhi day of the week is extremely significant because there is a nonstop flight once per week flight from Delhi to Almaty, Kazakhstan but only on Saturday night. AR13 teams did not wait around for 2 days to get there more directly.

Here is the updated Timetable:

AR13 TIMELINE

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Salvador:

Since we know that the pitstop was in LPB, teams could have flown out of there or flown to SantaCruz to connect with the flights there.

4/30It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2 leg 4Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119 or 1325 1450 QF190 or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:1550 2215 TG996 1635 2255 QF3011700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:QF126 1435 1625NZ739 1530 1720EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725 or 1615 1815 QF134Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

5/4 continuedtasks and then TBC in Siem Reap area, followed by more tasks

followed by tasks in Astana area after arrival; pitstop (could be 24 hours) NOTE that this leg is SPECULATION at this point. It is the most logical possibilty, but there are many ways to get from Almaty to Moscow.

"Sign up for one of three/four charter planes/helicopters/buses/camels leaving the next morning leaving at staggered departure times."

"We're team number seven? / We're made the seven o' clock?"

« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 05:52:55 PM by TexasLady »

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"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

Thanks for your research, Chateau, but I consider it to be inapplicable because your assumptions are not right. Tasks will happen all day in Salvador after a mid-morning arrival there. The pitstop is unlikely to start much before very late afternoon. Add 12 hours and you have my flights shown as the only ones that work. We'llSeeing that at least one team will be ready to start the leg as early as about 11:15 pm. They will arrive in Fortaleza much sooner if they choose from these flights:

It's time for a new updated timeline. Key new assumptions are that Delhi tasks will end on 5/7, making the release from the pitstop Thursday May 8, and that the missing pitstop is Astana, Kazakhstan. The Delhi day of the week is extremely significant because there is a nonstop flight once per week flight from Delhi to Almaty, Kazakhstan but only on Saturday night. AR13 teams did not wait around for 2 days to get there more directly. ............5/8 leg 8 beginsDelhi to Almaty KazakhstanThis is one of the most interesting set of flight choices ever, all late at night and all taking more than 22 hours to reach ALA:

followed by tasks in Astana area after arrival; pitstop (could be 24 hours) NOTE that this leg is SPECULATION at this point. It is the most logical possibilty, but there are many ways to get from Almaty to Moscow.

5/11 leg 10 begins; fly Astana to Moscow KC873 TSE SVO 2100 0220+1

ok, i'm just absorbing all this, so pardon me if you covered this - but isn't it possible to get to almaty from delhi with just one stop via dubai? this would explain the dubai sighting and not take 2 days..you mentioned the flight getting into to dubai from delhi at 9.30 or 9.45 on thurs 5/8, then there's a flight they can catch to almaty leaving at 11.20am?http://www.centralasiatourism.com/PDF-files/Almaty.pdfthis timetable says effective june 8, though, so maybe it was somewhat different in may...

sunnyca, your observation is right on. I did forget about the flight combinations via Dubai that do not come up in standard flight information systems because Air Astana is not a recognized carrier in them. By going back in this thread to probably early May, there is a post by me on the flight possiblities. None of the nonstop flights from Delhi ot Dubai seem to fir in conjunction with KC896 DBX ALA 1120 1740 beacuse none arrives by 1030 into Dubai. So, it is necessary to look at combinations to get to Dubai in time. The best one is Qatar 233 0500 0620 DEL DOH connecting with Qatar 100 0755 1000 DOH DXB, which I recall is a bus because that short distance can't take 2 hours in a plane.Put all 3 of the above flights together and yuo hav departure at 0500 from Delhi and arrival in Almaty at 1740. You also get maybe an hour where teams could be spotted in Dubai airport.

The only hitch with this is whether teams could get into their pitstop in Delhi the afternoon of May 7 well before 4pm so there is time to get to the airport after release from the Delhi pitstop.

cool!! yep, there's probably many ways to get into dubai from india - popular destination! - including the one in your may post - Delhi to Dubai nonstop flights:AI9897 DEL DXB 0745 0945i just checked - this one's still running too, except it leaves at 7.50am now.

sunnyca, I missed AI9897 because it shows up on Air India and on broad-based flight information systems as having no flights on Thursdays in August through to near the end of September. However, I have discovered that the reason for this is that those flights are already completely booked and therefore do not show up when a search for applicable flights is made. It is likely that AI9897 was flying on May 8, so it can be used as a preferred alternative to the Qatar Airways flights on my Timeline.

Here are the flights that I think we will see the teams use to start the first leg. This is a concoction of some flights we already know about and some new ones. The re-working of this flight info comes about from the new understanding gained from the previews that teams do not stop for activities in Sao Paulo after all. I was told that they flew to Sao Paulo by a United gate agent who was on hand when they sold them tickets to Sao Paulo. I guess he did not know about the rest.

Chateau, you are quite right to do an extension to Salvador on Wednesday April 23. the flights in my timetable only went to Sao Paulo. The extensions gives the opportunity to take a fresh look at flights. Your combination UA843/LU750/G3 1830 for the United flight group looks fine.

There are two American flight groups, I am aware of, through Miami and through Dallas. The former is LAX MIA AA252 355 2142 connecting in Miami with AA995 GRU 2330 0830+1, then connecting in Sao Paulo with GRU SSA JJ3174 1035 1250. The other one through Dallas is LAX DFW AA2446 1250 1740 connecting in Dallas with DFW GRU AA963 1945 0750+1. This gives teams flight JJ3174 as a backup with the main chance being GRU SSA JJ3896 0830 1055.

So, my question to you is why a team would take a route through Rio de Janeiro that can do no better than arrive at approximately the same time as another route that could be 95 mintues earlier? With full information unless there were weather reports indicating delays at Sao Paulo and not Rio, it would not be a logical choice. The only possibility is that American Airlines had limited choices to offer teams. Your route's only advantage is that it does allow for the sighting of a few teams in the Rio airport.

Yeah, I was not very comfortable with the arrangement. I suspect there were disruptions in the flight schedules due to the Porto Alegre airport being closed on the morning of the 23rd. The spoiler-Cordoba flight was diverted away from Porto Alegre. And the tourist who blogged wrote that that flight was supposed to go on to Sao Paulo but went to Rio instead where he saw teams.

It's a bit of mess.

I only put in one AA group. Two AAs could well have happened.

We need some detective work on which teams were seen together and where. I suspect the UA group is not very happy and they get the bad times from 19 BC.

The Salvador arrival time for the UA group being 4 hours later than the earliest possible AA group, I am sure that the UA group is really unhappy about it. Presumably those were the last or stupidest teams to arrive at LAX.

I can tell you that no filming permits were issued for Miami. However, they apparently should have also been issued for Chicago as well, and weren't, so this may not be helpful....

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"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

EPISODE 3 FLIGHTSI have taken a fresh look at the flights from Fortaleza to either Santa Cruz or LaPaz Bolivia for episode 3, based on looking at each leg through Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, and Lima. This is a very difficult route with long connections. Although the distances are not like Argentina to Moscow or Ushuaia to Maputo, it will take 12 hours or more to do this. Here are the possiblities for Fortaleza to Santa Cruz:

Best if pitstop release time is in the afternoon is JJ3849 FOR GRU 1515 1835 connecting in SaoPaulo with G37460 GRU VVI 2200 0115. There is a slightly earlier alternate fOR GRU - G31883 1440 1810.

The one most teams are likely to get is JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730.

If a leading team is released by midnight, then they could get JJ3323 FOR GRU 0130 0500 connecting in Sao Paulo with AR1263 SRU EZE 0630 0925 and connecting in Buenos Aires with AR1362 EZE VVI 1115 1320.

Other routes from GRU to VVI through EZE are inferior; only this one above works for AR13.

For FOR LPB there are few options and the best is taking the middle option for get on 5L301 which goes GRU VVI and then continues on to LPB after a lengthy stopover, arriving at 2115; summarizing, it is 5L301 GRU LPB 1600 2115. In front of that you have JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130.

Another option to LPB is to go through LIM. We start FOR GRU with JJ3325 0730 1130. Next is GRU LIM LP780 1450 1810. finally, we have 5L1405 LIM LPB 2130 0015 or 3 hours later than the prior combination.

I have done the same second look at episode 4 intra-South American flights by looking at each major hub and putting pieces together. Those hubs are Lima, Sao Paulo, and Buenos Aires. My current Timeline has the following:

Those are still valid. In addition, if the flight is from LaPaz, then we could substitute TA38 LPB LIM 0855 0945 connecting in Lima with G37459 1420 1840 LIM SCL or the combination 5L111 LPB VVI 0700 0830 connecting SantaCruz with 5L300 VVI GRU 0950 1345, connecting in SaoPaulo with GRU SCL LA751 1650 1945.

AR13 TIMELINE(note that this one assumes the 2 legs Delhi area and 2 legs Moscow scenario, which has a CBS claim supporting it and is proably right; it does not mean that legs 7 and 9 are still not open to question)

Depending on when they arrive at LAX, teams have choices of 3 flight combinations to Salvador:

There are other possiblities for the American flight from Miami to connect in Rio, but they can arrive no earlier than the later TAM Aereas Lineas flight into Salvador.

tasks in Salvador; then Hours of Operation

4/23 tasks in Salvador

4/24 We know the elevator task in Salvador is this morning. It will be followed soon after by a pitstop. For top teams that means that they can reach the Salvador airport by 11pm and possibly get G31604 SSA FOR 2310 0055+1.

4/25 leg 2, choices of flights from Salvador to Fortaleza are:SSA FOR JJ3366 0230 0415SSA FOR JJ3890 0330 0635SSA FOR G31642 0645 0945SSA FOR G31260 1100 1350SSA FOR JJ8003 1130 1310 followed by tasks in Fortzaleza

4/26 Pitstop in Fortaleza

4/27 leg 3Best if pitstop release time is in the afternoon is JJ3849 FOR GRU 1515 1835 connecting in SaoPaulo with G37460 GRU VVI 2200 0115. There is a slightly earlier alternate fOR GRU - G31883 1440 1810.

The one most teams are likely to get is JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730.

If a leading team is released by midnight, then they could get JJ3323 FOR GRU 0130 0500 connecting in Sao Paulo with AR1263 SRU EZE 0630 0925 and connecting in Buenos Aires with AR1362 EZE VVI 1115 1320.

Other routes from GRU to VVI through EZE are inferior; only this one above works for AR13.

For FOR LPB there are few options and the best is taking the 5L301 JJ3325 FOR GRU 0730 1130 connecting in Sao Paulo with 5L301 GRU VVI 1600 1730, then 5L211 VVI LPB 1900 2000.

Another option to LPB is to go through LIM. We start FOR GRU with JJ3325 0730 1130. Next is GRU LIM LP780 1450 1810. finally, we have 5L1405 LIM LPB 2130 0015 or 3 hours later than the prior combination.

Since we know that the pitstop was in LPB, teams could have flown out of there or flown to SantaCruz to connect with the flights there.

4/30It is highly highly likely that there is a REST DAY in the Santiago area.What we appear to be sure of is that teams end up at Santiago Chile airport on this evening.

LAN801 2245 0355+2 SCL AKL

5/2 leg 4Teams do tasks somewhere on the North Island of New Zealand from early morning until late evening when a pitstop starts.

5/3 and 5/4, leg 5Teams return to Auckland International Airport and fly out in multiple bunches from noon until midnight. Choices of routes from AKL to REP (Siem Reap) are:

AKL BKK TG990 1315 2100, connecting with BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

AKL SYD 1245 1415 NZ119 or 1325 1450 QF190 or 1550 1715 EK419 (note: since it is rumored that an Emirates flight was used, EK419 is thee most likely of the 3)these connect in Sydney to get SYD BKK with connection on one of these:1550 2215 TG996 1635 2255 QF3011700 2315 QF1

The AKL BNE route has several choices:QF126 1435 1625NZ739 1530 1720EK433 1655 1835 this then continues on to Singapore with BNE SIN EK433 2045 0150+1 and then SIN REP 3K595 0600 0700

The BNE BKK route has TG992 2359 0559+1. this would be followed by BKK REP PG903 0800 0900

Then BNE SIN has a flight after EK433 - SQ2246 2345 0545+1, but it is not in time to connect with 3K595 so teams doing thhis must wait for SIN REP MI616 1025 1135.Other flights BNE SIN are SQ246 2345 0545. This would connect with 3K595.

There are no flights BKK REP until the morning of May 4. May 4 reports of PG503 0800 0900 not having any teams sighted may be inaccurate, as it is the only flight that could get teams there from Bangkok by late morning since there was no possibility of them leaving Auckland in the afternoon and reaching Bangkok before 7pm.

Another route is AKL MEL 1300 1500 NZ2725 or 1615 1815 QF134Those connect with MEL BKK 1605 2235 TG982 or MEL SIN 1920 0100 EK405, which requires a connection to Bangkok or waiting until MI616 SIN REP 1025 1135.That connection on May 4 is either TG402 SIN BKK 0740 0900 or SQ970 0845 1010. Then a connection to PG905 BKK REP 1100 1220 is the next one possible.

One late team is probably on AKL SIN 2355 0645 SQ282 connecting there with SQ970 and PG905 shown above to avoid waiting for MI633.

I did a make-good analysis on the flights I expected vs. those team may have actually taken. The first piece of evidence is that teams on their way to LAX indicate a 3 hour difference with "American" over "United." Here are the flights predicted:

LAX GRU UA843 1405 1005+1 with a stop in ORD from 2005 to 2132 (Note: third and last to arrive)

4/23 teams go from GRU to SSA(Salvador) but it is unclear how many fly nonstop and how many connect through Rio de Janeiro. There are numerous 2 1/4 hour nonstops from GRU to SSA.

Now the first and best option through DFW was not offered to teams for unknown reasons. It may have been a full enough flight, WRP may have erstricted it, or AA may have restricted it. The best route for teams was AA252 connecting with AA995 connecting GRU SSA G31941 1005 1220. You can look at an alternate AA252 connecting with AA905 GRU GIG 2330 0830 but it arrives 5 minutes later in SSA after connecting with GIG SSA JJ8001 1020 1225. The could also fly on GOL, but who would want to since it is 10 minutes behind JJ8001?The other route is the UA842 LAX ORD and continuing ORD GRU as shown above and connecting there with JJ3154 1215 1440.That results in a difference of 1440 - 1225 = 2 hours 15 minutes, or less than the 3 hours. There are no flights that give you 3 hours, so I am not worried.

The other factor to considered here is the delay for the Rio-connecting passengers. That cut the real gap between American and United, but it is not clear how much.

The earlier than expected arrival of probably the first 4 teams to the Fort Sao Marcelo pitstop in Salvador opens up a possibility of one more flight. Since the 1010am or some after finish of the first 4 teams makes it possible for them to reach the Salvador airport in time for a Thursday April 24 1110pm flight. They may have been able to get on G31604 SSA FOR 2310 0055+1. All the other teams will probably be on G33366 0230 0415 identified previously.