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The list below has actually been created halfway down the thread but has now been copied to the beginning of the first post and will be maintained and updated here. Current data on 65"-70" 4K and 1080p+/4K- Flagship and sub-Flagship model pricing (new updates since last update in bold):

================================================== =====================BEGINNING OF ORIGINAL POST

Sharp has been the first to establish MSRP on their 2014 Flagship 4K models:
60" $5000
70" $6000

they are not offering a 65", but as a swag we can say pricing for the 60" and 70" equates to ~$5500 for 65" 4K (edge lit)

The flagship65" 4K model for Sony appears to be the XBR-X950B. No pricing has been released for any sizes of this model (including 65"), but it not likely to be priced lower than Sony's 2013 flagship 65" 4K model, the XBR65X900A which has an MSRP of $7000 (and is currently being discounted to $4000).

So pretty safe assumption that a 65" Sony XBR65X950B will have an MSRP in excess of $7000.

The flagship 65" 4K model for Samsung appears to be the UNHU9000, which is curved. We'll see how much more they charge for that curve and how many people want to spring for it, but the flagship flat 65" 4K model Samsung is offering in 2014 is the UNH8500. No pricing has been released for any sizes of this model (including 65"), but it not likely to be priced lower than Samsung's 2013 flagship 65" 4K model, the UN65F9000AF which has an MSRP of $7500 (and is currently being discounted to $4500).

So pretty safe assumption that a 65" Samsung UN65HU9000 will have an MSRP in excess of $7500.

Visio has never really had a flagship model before (their new Reference Series). They have announced very aggressive pricing for the P Series 4K models - the 65" version has an MSRP of $2200. Pricing has not been announced for the R Series, ostensibly because they need to sort out the logistics of how they are going to deliver this product to your house. This is a valid excuse for the 120" R Series, but there are no logistical issues to sort out for the 65" R Series.

My guess is that Visio is holding off to see the pricing that gets announced by Sony and Samsung for their flagship models before finalizing the pricing for the 65" R Series. And if they really want to throw the gauntlet down for the high-end as well as the low end, I predict they will price the 65" R Series at less than half of the MSRP announced by Sony for the XBR65X950B or Samsung for the UN65HU9000 (whichever is lower).

So based on today's pricing, I'm prepared to predict that the 65" Visio R Series will probably be priced below $3500 and if Visio really wants to make waves, I predict that they find a way to offer an MSRP below $3000 (meaning $2999).

Sharp has been the first to establish MSRP on their 2014 Flagship 4K models:
60" $5000
70" $6000

they are not offering a 65", but as a swag we can say pricing for the 60" and 70" equates to ~$5500 for 65" 4K (edge lit)

The flagship65" 4K model for Sony appears to be the XBR-X950B. No pricing has been released for any sizes of this model (including 65"), but it not likely to be priced lower than Sony's 2013 flagship 65" 4K model, the XBR65X900A which has an MSRP of $7000 (and is currently being discounted to $4000).

So pretty safe assumption that a 65" Sony XBR65X950B will have an MSRP in excess of $7000.

The flagship 65" 4K model for Samsung appears to be the UNHU9000, which is curved. We'll see how much more they charge for that curve and how many people want to spring for it, but the flagship flat 65" 4K model Samsung is offering in 2014 is the UNH8500. No pricing has been released for any sizes of this model (including 65"), but it not likely to be priced lower than Samsung's 2013 flagship 65" 4K model, the UN65F9000AF which has an MSRP of $7500 (and is currently being discounted to $4500).

So pretty safe assumption that a 65" Samsung UN65HU9000 will have an MSRP in excess of $7500.

Visio has never really had a flagship model before (their new Reference Series). They have announced very aggressive pricing for the P Series 4K models - the 65" version has an MSRP of $2200. Pricing has not been announced for the R Series, ostensibly because they need to sort out the logistics of how they are going to deliver this product to your house. This is a valid excuse for the 120" R Series, but there are no logistical issues to sort out for the 65" R Series.

My guess is that Visio is holding off to see the pricing that gets announced by Sony and Samsung for their flagship models before finalizing the pricing for the 65" R Series. And if they really want to throw the gauntlet down for the high-end as well as the low end, I predict they will price the 65" R Series at less than half of the MSRP announced by Sony for the XBR65X950B or Samsung for the UN65HU9000 (whichever is lower).

So based on today's pricing, I'm prepared to predict that the 65" Visio R Series will probably be priced below $3500 and if Visio really wants to make waves, I predict that they find a way to offer an MSRP below $3000 (meaning $2999).

Looked at from another perspective, the MSRP for the 65" 4K P Series has already been set at $2200. The R Series has 384 dimming zones versus the 64 zones on the P, but my guess is that the number of LEDs is the same for both panels (in fact, I would wager that there are a total of 384 LEDs used to light the 64" panel and the R Series controls each LED individually as a separate dimming zone while the P Series controls blocks of 6 LEDs together for each of the 64 dimming zones - probably organized as blocks of 2x3 LEDs) and so there is no real manufacturing cost associated with the additional dimming zones of the R Series - just the additional algorithmic complexity and engineering that had to be put into controlling them. If this is right, then the only real difference in manufacturing cost between the two panels may be limited to the cost of the custom LCD panel on the R versus the standard mass-market LCD panel used on the P (which may also be used for the M and maybe even the E Series).

No doubt the cost of the panel must be one of the biggest cost drivers for one of these sets, but I can't see the cost of a mass-market 65" panel costing much more than a few hundred $ in any case, and it's tough to see how Visio's custom panel could cost more than twice or at most three times that (unless the R Series truly is just a proof-of-concept with no intention to ever go to production, which would surprise me given Visio's aggressiveness).

So I would guess the manufacturing cost of the R Series to be at most $500 or so more than the P Series. If Visio wants to get a 50% margin on that additional cost, that would lead to an MSRP of $3200 versus the P Series, but they have plenty of room to get more aggressive and price at $2999 if they want to (in which case they would only be getting close to a 40% margin on the additional manufacturing costs for the R Series).

I think the pricing Visio has quoted for FULD panels from low to high has already blown everyone's mind (65" 1080p FULD for $900 and 65" 4K FULD for $2200 - I don't believe anyone was expecting that!), so to me the only real question is whether Visio is confident enough to carry that approach through to the 65" Reference Series. If they price at $2999 they will blow everyone's mind (and probably sell a large number of 65" R Series TVs, assuming they perform as promised). If they price anywhere above $3500 or so then it will indicate that they are not confident that they have the production capability to deliver the 65" R Series in any kind of real volume and so they want to try to win the 2014 VE Shootout with the R but don't actually want to sell many R sets this year...

Wish I could be a fly on the wall in the executive suite to overhear the discussion as 65" R Series pricing gets finalized...

There have been enough developments in terms of flagship release and pricing discounts since I first wrote this post three week ago that I though an update was in order: embedded in below quote in bold:

Quote:

Originally Posted by fafrd

Sharp has been the first to establish MSRP on their 2014 Flagship 4K models:
60" $5000
70" $6000 [update: MSRP of $7500 currently being discounted to $5000, so ~$4700 for a 65" equivalent]

they are not offering a 65", but as a swag we can say pricing for the 60" and 70" equates to ~$5500 for 65" 4K (edge lit) [update: ~$300/5", so currently ~$4700 for 65" equivalent]

The flagship65" 4K model for Sony appears to be the XBR-X950B. No pricing has been released for any sizes of this model (including 65"), but it not likely to be priced lower than Sony's 2013 flagship 65" 4K model, the XBR65X900A which has an MSRP of $7000 (and is currently being discounted to $4000).

So pretty safe assumption that a 65" Sony XBR65X950B will have an MSRP in excess of $7000. [update: MSRP of $8000 has been leaked]

The flagship 65" 4K model for Samsung appears to be the UNHU9000, which is curved. We'll see how much more they charge for that curve and how many people want to spring for it, but the flagship flat 65" 4K model Samsung is offering in 2014 is the UNH8500. No pricing has been released for any sizes of this model (including 65"), but it not likely to be priced lower than Samsung's 2013 flagship 65" 4K model, the UN65F9000AF which has an MSRP of $7500 (and is currently being discounted to $4500). [update: no change]

So pretty safe assumption that a 65" Samsung UN65HU9000 will have an MSRP in excess of $7500.

[update: Panasonic has published pricing on the 55" AX800 with MSRP of $4500. No pricing on 65" yet, but expect ~$5100 or so]

[update: Sharp 70" UQ 1080p+/4K- with MSRP of $4000 currently being discounted to $3300, so ~$3000 equivalent for 65" panel]

Visio has never really had a flagship model before (their new Reference Series). They have announced very aggressive pricing for the P Series 4K models - the 65" version has an MSRP of $2200. Pricing has not been announced for the R Series, ostensibly because they need to sort out the logistics of how they are going to deliver this product to your house. This is a valid excuse for the 120" R Series, but there are no logistical issues to sort out for the 65" R Series.

My guess is that Visio is holding off to see the pricing that gets announced by Sony and Samsung for their flagship models before finalizing the pricing for the 65" R Series. And if they really want to throw the gauntlet down for the high-end as well as the low end, I predict they will price the 65" R Series at less than half of the MSRP announced by Sony for the XBR65X950B or Samsung for the UN65HU9000 (whichever is lower).

So based on today's pricing, I'm prepared to predict that the 65" Visio R Series will probably be priced below $3500 and if Visio really wants to make waves, I predict that they find a way to offer an MSRP below $3000 (meaning $2999).

[update: with the integrated 5.1 soundbar in the Vizio Reference Series (with a current value of $300), I no longer believe the 65" Reference Series will have an MSRP of $3000 (too aggressive). With the Sharp 70" UQ setting a floor above $3000, the Sharp 70" UD setting a ceiling below $4700, and with Sony putting out an MSRP of $8000 for the 950B, I expect the price of the 65" Reference Series to be in the $3500-4500 range...]

You kind of need a chart style post. I have no real idea what information is being conveyed here.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)

You kind of need a chart style post. I have no real idea what information is being conveyed here.

Not sure how to create a 'chart style post' but would be willing to give it a try if you could point me in the right direction...

The main point was that since three weeks ago, Sharp has started to deliver their 2014 line-up and has already begun offering significant discounts below MSRP.

I believe the 70" Sharp UQ 1080p+/4K- probably provides a price floor for the 65" Vizio Reference Series and the Flagship 70" Sharp UD 4K probably provides a price ceiling for the 65" Reference Series.

Between the street price for those two panels today and the $8000 price that has been leaked for the Sony 950B, I've updated my earlier predicted price range for the 65" Vizio Reference Series from 'below $300' (old) to $3500-4500 (new)...

At least not immediately. I wouldn't be surprised to see prices dip to that level by November.

Statements like that should always be put in the context of screen size. At 65", there is no 4K flagship model below $3000.

But the 60" Sharp UQ is basically 4K, has an MSRP of $3000, and is currently being discounted to $2500...

The 70" UQ has an MSRP of $4000 and is currently being discounted to $3300...

And while Sharp is not offering a 65" UQ, you can either take the current market rate of ~$300/5" of split the difference between the prices of the 60" and 70" panels to arrive at an effective price of $2800-$2900 for a 65" UQ.

So subject to the fact that we don't yet know how well the edge-lit Ultra Bright backpanel of the UQ performs in terms of dark-level (as well as the fact that it is 1080p+/4K- rather than 'true' 4K), I think we are already close to being there...

-fafrd

p.s. the Sharp 4K 'Flagship' could be considered to be the 'UD' ($7500 MSRP currently discounted down to $5000), but while it is a 'true' 4K panel, since it does not have the Ultra Bright backlight of the UQ and it's contrast ratio is only 83% that of the UQ (10,000,000:1 for the UD versus 12,000,000:1 for the UQ) I believe this panel is going to be inferior in image quality and consider the UQ Sharp's 2014 flagship panel.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)

I read in some web pages that the sony XBR65X950B will a Price about $8000 US dollars in 2014 this model and the 85" that will have the full array led DIRECT LED with local dimming from sony check this link

Well, since HPX4 has revived this thread, it's reminded me that I never followed-up on Rogo's request above. So here's a stab. Pleas anyone feel free to update when there is new information, add new models I may have overlooked, or correct any mistakes I may make:

Many vendors are playing a game of cat-and-mouse with their 65" Flagship LED/LCD pricing (chief among them Toshiba, which has released no high-end pricing information yet), but I see the flagship prices from Sharp and Samsung establishing a floor and ceiling price for the Vizio R Series (assuming it materializes and Vizio is serios about taking some flagship market share from Sharp and Samsung.

I believe the Sharp 70" UQ series represents a floor for the price of the 65" Reference Series. The Sharp is 5" larger but it is edge-lit and 1080p+/4K- versus the R Series which is FALD and 'true' 4K, so I find it hard to see Vizio thinking they need to price the R Series at a discount to the street price of the 70" Sharp UQ (currently $3300).

And I believe the Samsung flagship LED/LCD represents a ceiling on the price of the R Series. The Samsung is curved verus the R which is flat (whether you consider that a net positive or a net negative ) and the Samsung is edge-lit versus the Vizio which is FALD, but I believe the Vizio Flagship is going to have to sell at a discount to the Sharp flagship in order to win customers from Samsung. A 20% discount would mean that the 65" Vizio R Series would have to be priced below $4000 to win business against the 65" Samsung H9000 which is currently priced at $5000.

A price of $4000 for the 65" R Series is also 50% of the price of the 65" Sony X950B, which is probably the closest flagship of all listed in terms of picture quality and performance to the Vizio R Series, and is also supposed to be one of the best TVs ever made. If these two panels deliver the picture quality expected, I believe the Vizio R is going to have to sell at a significant discount to the Sony X950B to win customers from them...

So based on the current market pricing which has been released up to now, I predict a price for the 65" Vizio Reference Series somewhere in the range of $3300-4000.

Added it to the list. I thought it was a 2013 model which is the reason I had left it off. Also, because it has only 8,000,000 CR and no SuperBright Backlight versus the UQ that has 12,000,000 CR and SuperBright, the UD is not a true flagship in terms of integrating all of the best of the best Panasonic 2014 LED/LCD TV technologies...

Also updated the latest price drop on the 70" SQ - up to a 35% discount off of MSRP now...

First, why don't you edit your first post and add the updated chart. Then just edit that one when new info comes in and put a "LAST UPDATED ON DATE* above. This way you do not have to keep re-posting the chart.

Second, I don't think the Sharp Q or LG OLED 1080p should be listed. It is not a true 4K set, but is using the yellow sub pixel of the Quattron tech to achieve a quasi-4K resolution.

Finally, I see you have 70" sets on here and wonder why you do included the Vizio (P702ui-B3) $2,599.99 (MSRP)

First, why don't you edit your first post and add the updated chart. Then just edit that one when new info comes in and put a "LAST UPDATED ON DATE* above. This way you do not have to keep re-posting the chart.

Second, I don't think the Sharp Q or LG OLED 1080p should be listed. It is not a true 4K set, but is using the yellow sub pixel of the Quattron tech to achieve a quasi-4K resolution.

Finally, I see you have 70" sets on here and wonder why you do included the Vizio (P702ui-B3) $2,599.99 (MSRP)

Excellent suggestions - thanks.

I'll add the 70" P Series to the list (even though the post was supposed to be about 65", but some vendors are only offering 60" and 70").

I'm going to leave the Sharp UQ on the list, since it is truly Sharp's flagship this year - the UQ is the only Sharp model with the Superbright panel and 150% the CR of the UD (which is essentially a 2013 model with HDMI2.0)

And while I agree that the SQ does not belong on the list, since that panel appears to be the one directly competing against the Vizio P Series (or trying to :-), I think it is worth tracking how that pricing evolves, especially now that you have convinced me to add the 70" P Series to the list...

And the LG OLED is on the list just because it is LGs flagship this year, so once the 65" comes out and is priced, it will be interesting to see how it is priced relative to the Sony 950B, for example.

And perhaps most importantly, I'll maintain the updated post in post #1 and empty all of the subsequent posts.

First, why don't you edit your first post and add the updated chart. Then just edit that one when new info comes in and put a "LAST UPDATED ON DATE* above. This way you do not have to keep re-posting the chart.

Stop making to much sense! You think he has time to edit the OP's date for each update.

What about adding other 2014 Sony 4K models?
Would be nice to have all 65-70" true 4K options in one single post.

I for one don't see the point of adding 1080p+ Sharps, since they cannot display 4K@60Hz content.

In general, I wanted to keep the list limited to Flagship models but have now included 'sub-Flagship' models (1 step down) especially in the cases where pricing on the Flagship has not yet been announced.

So if you know which 65" Sony model is their 'Sub-flagship' I'd be happy to add it (X850B?? X900B??).

The easiest might be if you would just quote the first post (eliminate everything but the list), add the new model, MSRP, and current street pricing, and highlight all of the additions/changes in bold. When I see your additions, I'll copy them up into the first post.