hi guys, i was going through my diary thinking of attending the 2018 sydney queens and noticed the dates.3-7 oct,now there is a match ( 1000 -1500 yds programmed for the 7th) in coonabarabran surely this is a misprint?regards paul

Paul, This is correct. The NSW RA have decided to run the Queens at the same time we are running the Ultra Long Range Challenge and the National Long Range Match Rifle and F Class Championships.As for Match Rifle and F Class, this date/time slot was decided on at the meeting in Stawell November 2016 and reconfirmed at the Stawell meeting in November 2017. Reason being, in 2019 (when our next National Championship was due) we will have a substantial Match Rifle Team competing in Bisley UK.This time slot is ideal for Match Rifle & F Class as we follow on from the Coonabarabran OPM. It is the first week of daylight savings and the weather is usually mild,CheersCliff Austen - President NSW Match Rifle and Long Range F Class

[quote="Cliff Austen"]Paul, This is correct. The NSW RA have decided to run the Queens at the same time as we are running the Ultra Long Range Challenge and the National Long Range Match Rifle and F Class Championships.

thanks for your reply Cliff, on face value I think the nswra has always had that date, they wouldn't move nor should they. In a time when we as a movement are trying desperately to get shooters to participate in our events it is really disappointing that a compromise cant be met. regards paul

apologies Cliff, and you are right John!extremely disappointing that one does not talk to the other. Anybody would think that we had 50k membership!We have in Sth Australia the same problem with programming ,we must actively work together to maximise attendances so we can all benefit in this great sport of ours.

not sure how it is in nsw, but here's how it is in s.a.it has been decided by the powers that be that the sara queens is only for t.r.fclass is not in the queens.however there is a side match for fclass which said shooters are expected to get their rocks off about so much that they will attend with their ears back.in truth, our fclass shooters are staying away in droves.without interstaters or things like teams trials, there would be very few fclass shooters at our event.a few fclass shooters have done a lot of work to get prizes and sponsorship for fclass sidematch events, and the response from tr was that it was not fair that they did not have the same prizes.what this has in common with the coona thing is the growing crack forming between the disciplines at higher levels.fclass shooters have different interests, or different emphases, on what shooting is about.this includes long range, bisley, and other things.slowly we are drifting apart due to the still t.r.centric attitudes of our ruling bodies.generally at club level things are luckily somewhat better.if the sara queens were on when something like coona was on, the sara event would not find much loyalty from long range shooters.just because that is how it was does not mean that is how it has to be.keep safe,bruce.

bruce moulds wrote:not sure how it is in nsw, but here's how it is in s.a.it has been decided by the powers that be that the sara queens is only for t.r.fclass is not in the queens.in truth, our fclass shooters are staying away in droves.fclass shooters have different interests, or different emphases, on what shooting is about.this includes long range, bisley, and other things.slowly we are drifting apart due to the still t.r.centric attitudes of our ruling bodies.if the sara queens were on when something like coona was on, the sara event would not find much loyalty from long range shooters.keep safe,bruce.

So ok bruce I will bite."it has been decided by the powers that be that the sara queens is only for t.r."

Bruce has someone pickled your hooch? SARA bend over backwards to appease f class and yes they are staying away in droves but that is happening all over Australia. I can remember reading countless articles on this forum about f class taking over but where are they? they are becoming like c grade they just stay at home. the figures don't lie. speaking about staying at home,you don't help the attendance figures,when did you last attend a P.M. let alone a queens! while im at it do you really think it is fair that a new body joins an organization,learns the ropes abides by the rules and then wants to change everything to suit themselves? eg. long range shooting.we are a national body and are in this together,short range and long range.keep safe and I will see you at the queens paul

Paul i think what Bruce is getting at is only TR can officially win the queens, there is no queens prize for F Class. As you have said we are all a part of the same National Body, so then dont we all deserve to be afforded the opportunity to achieve the same honours?

Jase, I'm surprised. The Queen's prize is an event that has existed from the 1860s for a linear descent of iron sight equipped rifles. The name & the chairing are traditions associated with that discipline. It seems to be grotesque that anybody could perceive the award should automatically apply to other disciplines while the two styles continue to coexist.

Which raises the next point. Once F class shooters arrive at a method of awarding an equivalent level of excellence that they wish to be established as a tradition to winners, how do yo decide who is granted the award, FS, FO or FTR, or one for each? In the case of the latter, surely that would risk diminishing the event's prestige; if one is decided by a notionally qualitative method, I could see that pissing of the other two disciplines.

Of course, you could determine that the oldest and largest discipline, FS, should receive the award, and open another can of worms.

Undoubtedly shooters of goodwill will eventually resolve the issue, but right now it seems to me that there's a certain amount of shooting from the hip going on & not a lot of effort being given to methods of resolution.

As an aside, other countries perceive our tradition of granting state Queen's awards, rather than a single national one as beyond the pale, though it can be argued that some of these awards existed prior to the Australian colonies coalescing into a single Commonwealth.

budget,why would i go to the queens when i cannot be in it?i have won what i thought was the fclass part of the queens three times, and felt part of a fantastic thing, only to find out that all i was was part of rent a crowd for tr.fcass shooters pay the same.technically speaking, the queens prize was for muzzle loaders.tr have been happy enough to change that tradition.tr will not entertain 1000 yd/900 mt in the sara queens.perhaps introduce that and get rid of 300.like i said, fclass is alive and well generally at club level, but at higher levels, the powers that be have failed to capitalize.keep safe,bruce.