Long live the shamanic cultural revolution! Long live the glorious Revolutionary Nahuallis, Long live the sacred Chol’qij calendar! Long live the broad masses of people! It is for our brothers, the proletariat, that I write this Manifesto, so that they may rise up in unison and take down goliath with one stroke. Babylon will crumble, and in its place, in the womb of the old, will be born the new. A new society will spring from the ashes of old and overtake this planet like no other force in the world. Our brothers must arm themselves to the teeth not with weapons but with spiritual knowledge, for the conquest of shamanic power and for the conquest of peoples minds. We must become fishermen of men’s souls.

But to do that we must train, train ourselves in the most arcane and ascetic arts. We must bind ourselves by blood to the occult so that we may bring new knowledge to the people. This knowledge will give them the sharpest weapon with which to attack our oppressors, not with darkness, but with blinding white light. We are the workers of light. Our fight is a fierce but peaceful one. We strive for the transformation of the spirit by the Great Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the great Creator which is Ometeotl, the dual-creator god and the supreme ruler of the universe. To him, we must pray, as well as pray to his messengers, the Great Aztec Powers.

In the name of Tonatiuh, Our Lord the Burning Sun and the true giver of life, I invoke thee too guide us on our path towards revolution. In you we have faith and in your Divine Wisdom we surrender ourselves. We humble ourselves before you, Tonatiuh, and to your brothers and sisters we humbly pray for sustenance, fulfillment, and splendor. But we are fighting a spiritual war, and the only way to transform the outcome of this fight is to train ourselves in the art of magickal power. To accomplish this task, we must first find paradigms that will aid us in transforming our consciousness to the level necessary in order to acquire true shamanic power. Through different practices such as the using the Cholq’ij, shamanic journeying, and setting up a spirit pot or nganga, we will begin to achieve what we’ve been longing for.

In order to create a magickal order of a new type, one that sustains itself on the energy of its members, we must all come together to bind the different traditions into one, which is what we call Palo Mexica. Palo Mexica is the guiding religion and ideology of the GRA and will continue to be a guiding light by which we tread upon the righteous path of liberation. Ours is a liberation of the soul and spirit. Hidden deep within the practices of Palo Mexica are the cures we seek, for with this new and revolutionary ideology we may come to understand ourselves, including our own weaknesses and our strengths.

Palo Mexica is about connecting with Creator on a level comparable to communicating with the highest spirit. You must find your spiritual guides among the Aztec gods and bind yourself to that deity in order to find yourself. The sacred Cholq’ij calendar can guide you in your choosing of a god to worship as your patron. You must learn the rituals of the Revolutionary Nahualli in order to develop yourself in the acquisition of the powers to shapeshift into animals so that your connection with the spirit world will become permanent. You will attain the strengths of your nagual and use its vision to do spiritual development work.

The Revolutionary Nahualli is influenced by the following traditions: Aztec and Maya Shamanism, Palo Mayombe, Santeria, Chaos Magick, and Mexican Curanderismo. These traditions provide a foundation on which we could build this new ideology. We must take from these different trends and practices what is relevant to the practice of Aztec god adoration and working with the lower spirits of the Aztec pantheon in order to defeat our oppressors by our sheer numbers alone. Imagine millions with the knowledge and wisdom of the Revolutionary Nahualli. We must arm their mighty hands with the spiritual power necessary to tackle down the bourgeoisie and the religion of the conquerors.

The GRA is not only a magickal order but also a revolutionary organization with ideals stemming from such influences as the Bolivarian Revolution, Prachanda Path from Nepal, and other radical movements across the planet. We are definatenly socialists, revolutionary nationalists, and believe in the idea of Aztlan. Aztlan means giving the earth back to the people it was stolen from through the Mexican-American War. We are in our spiritual homeland and reserve the right to fight for it with our magickal skill if others depended on it. We are not dogmatic about our ideals and stress a peaceful resolution to society’s ills.

The Great Aztec Powers want this land to be given back to the indigenous people of Mesoamerica. It is our duty to fulfill this task. We will not parish into the night! Our dreams will guide us and will prove prophetic, but I implore to you, rise up and take up arms in the spirit world. Wield your mighty hand. If we develop an advanced magickal consciousness in the proletariat, there’s no stopping us. In order to defeat the forces of evil in the this world, we must make councils and drumming circles in which we could learn and practice magick and shamanism.

We must build Calmemacs as schools of magick shamanism and curanderismo in order to attain a greater understanding of the Divine Wisdom of Ometeotl the Creator. These Calmecacs will be the revolutionary building blocks necessary build revolutionary actions against the bourgeoisie. We will shamanic journey in order to push forward this revolution until we topple institutional ideologies forever. We could create a force so powerful in the spirit world that every spirit on earth will want to work with these Revolutionary Nahuallias.

Palo Mexica encourages the development of new techniques in order to achieve an altered state of consciousness or trance through which you may make the movement of movements towards revolution an even greater reality. You will use your spiritual allies and totems in order to not only heal the afflictions of your fellow men, but also defend yourself from enemies with shields of power that we learn to form as we develop ourselves as nahuallis.

As the world crisis deepens, our faith in the gods still get stronger and overpower our enemies and leave them powerless to our influence. We must create an organized force that is militant enough to follow through our plans of fostering a shamanic cultural revolution that will create an environment conductive for human development by spiritual means. So then there is still hope for man as we make our way toward the New Sun in the year 2012, when the showdown will commence, we will be ready with our collective intelligence and power and we will crush you with everything we’ve got.

The Cholq’ij will connect us more with nature and we will treat the earth, Our Mother, better as it deserves to be treated. For this, we must come to power. But the nature of cultural revolution is different than political or social revolution. A cultural revolution doesn’t have to topple a government or waste its resources on fighting a real war. The cultural revolution is created in the minds of people and what we use is our minds our hearts and our voice. We will be victorious.

Not sure I want Aztec shamanism to become influencial. History remembers the last time they had power;

Anybody seen "Apocalypto?" Scary shit. I'd rather worship the Great Old Ones, if I had to choose.

Don't get me wrong, that great if you see the light side of Aztecs, Incas, Mayas, etc, but talk about demonlatry. The europeans were right, there is such a thing as primitive savages. The Siberian Shamans, were also a bunch of demon worshipers. Shamanism isn't always such an enlightened thing. Infact despite the positive modern reconstruction of it, it's usually really primitive and barbaric. Man as scared little apes, anthropmorphising destructive powers of the earth and finding someway to "worship," or appease them, to make them stop. All hail civilization, it may not be the best of things, but dispite the bad side, it is actual progress. No disrespect to shamanism as it is the root of magic, but D&D is right at putting the shaman as the primitive magic user, the Magus is the advanced.

For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.

Well I'm a Chaote, so I don't like religion, period. Magic is liberation, religion is to make gods out of the power you by Cosmic nature are and wield, and worship your own power. Aka, it's to be a slave, not a (self) master. Give me magic, non empirical science, and free philosophy any day. Religion is for the weak and or the suppressed. Magico-religion, is just some kind of half stance. But like I said I'm a Chaote, I worship freedom, I'm a rebel and all gods are the playthings of man, not the other way around. I'll be master of my own fate thank you, I wether in duality or one day supremely liberated am God, may all other gods obey me, or fear my rebellion.

For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.

Don't get me wrong, neoshamanism and some forms of traditional shamanism are very magically advanced and open, and spiritually liberating, but there are many forms which are just superstitious and corrupt. Shamans in many cultures are treated like kings or gods, and they abuse their powers and inspire fear and obediance to the rest of the tribe(s). Although shamanism is rich, and many magicians would do well to borrow from it, it as a whole is primitive when man was young, and not very spiritually enlightening. Look what shamanism has done to Buddhism or Taoism, like folk religion and magic, made it a corrupt superstitious mess.

As far as gods go, unless seen as cosmic archetypes, or group egregores of trained magicians, they are also things of man in his ignorance. Anropmorphising the cosmic forces, makes man more of a slave to human petty whims and desires to explain things which are quite without morality and intelligence, but still complex and powerful. Man would do better to be forced to cope and evolve to natural forces, and learn about their ways, then make them into gods, so he can barter with them like they can even care or not.

For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.

Not sure I want Aztec shamanism to become influencial. History remembers the last time they had power;

Anybody seen "Apocalypto?" Scary shit. I'd rather worship the Great Old Ones, if I had to choose.

Don't get me wrong, that great if you see the light side of Aztecs, Incas, Mayas, etc, but talk about demonlatry. The europeans were right, there is such a thing as primitive savages. The Siberian Shamans, were also a bunch of demon worshipers. Shamanism isn't always such an enlightened thing. Infact despite the positive modern reconstruction of it, it's usually really primitive and barbaric. Man as scared little apes, anthropmorphising destructive powers of the earth and finding someway to "worship," or appease them, to make them stop. All hail civilization, it may not be the best of things, but dispite the bad side, it is actual progress. No disrespect to shamanism as it is the root of magic, but D&D is right at putting the shaman as the primitive magic user, the Magus is the advanced.

Meh history is written by the winners (sorry had to throw that little generic line out.)

Civilizations grow they develop and evolve, the Aztec culture I truly believe was in the process of evolution till it was somewhat stunted by greedy ass "civilized" Europeans, plus even before that there is no denying that the Aztecs where extremely advanced for their time, now as a point of reference I want you to look at Quatzacoatl (who you tend to find viewed as a 'christ' like figure and sychrenized as such) the king and deity in this case who came along and taught his people not to sacrifice human beings but rather to make the most basic substitute, animal sacrifice, but ofcourse the priesthoods of Tezcatlipoca (who was viewed as a more devilish figured and is currently synchrenized as such) didn't take a liking to that and Quatzacoatl was kicked out and promised he'll return...then the whole Cortez thing happened and Christianity was wrought upon the Aztecs forcing them to stop sacrificing human beings left and right, so to one extent or another the Christ-figure did reappear but in line with that verse from the Gospel of Matthew "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" and the Aztecs experienced their own apocalypse by all means, with many old gods becoming dormant (being forced to go cold turkey as far as the blood went) or being thrown under the banner of Christianity/Catholicism.

Now I wouldn't go so far as to call the Aztecs demon worshiping savages..I mean come on dude, my view tends to follow the Haitian perspective...you give any being blood, human blood, they'll develop a taste for it, a crave for it, yours included and though they may be very benevolent at the moment you give it to them their 'djab' (devilish) side comes out and normally demands more. Thus perhaps you can say that many of the beings in the Aztec pantheon became somewhat 'vampiric' (ofc now we can also look at the modern day practice of demonolatry and you find somewhat similar techniques of blood letting in honor of a patron demon, meh magic involving blood is always pretty messy and dangerous though the Aztecs had some pretty boss magicians and priests running around) plus the Aztecs as a whole held much reverence for the destructive aspects of life, the satanic/adversarial aspect of the universe, one of death, destruction, and the grotesque, because quite frankly it's a part of living and experiencing this universe, dread, violence, sickness, death and the fear following behind it and through various religious expressions they would cope with that within their cultural lens, it just so happens that many of these expressions got blown up and recorded by European folks to show how terrible and barbaric these inhuman Indians are..in fact we should kill, rape, and enslave them all, force them into our religion, make sure to teach them how 'terrible' their forefathers were and how stupid they are to the clearly less barbaric and more 'civilized' Europeans dumb demon worshiping natives (notice this is all sarcasm, I'm just pointing out the horrible image the Spaniards would paint of the Aztecs to essentially justify their terrible acts..but hey then again the Aztecs didn't do much to fix that image lol)

A part of me believes that the Aztecs kinda brought a lot of what they got upon themselves and much of it had to do with the fact that they wouldn't stop sacrificing people and such (the karma of a whole civilization, I mean it wasn't just the 500 Spaniards who brought them down, it was also the thousands of indigenous enemies they had AND the smallpox) another part of me fantasizes about the 'what if the spaniards wouldn't have come' perhaps if given time the Aztecs would have grown away from human sacrifice, again looking back at Quatzacoatl and his message. You have to remember various cultures practiced human sacrifice, I myself am I aligned with two of them, first one is the Yoruba culture, within the Ifa corpus it describes in one scenario how at one time the Yoruba people would sacrifice young virgins to the Orisha but Olofin/God called a meeting amongst them and told them to stop accepting human blood and start accepting animal blood, whilst Orunla the holy prophet was sent to teach the Yoruba people to no longer sacrifice human beings. The other culture is the Judeo-Christian culture, the willingness of Abraham to sacrifice Isaac speaks for itself, yet both the Hebrew and Yoruba people grew out of human sacrifice..perhaps the same would've happened to the Aztecs, who knows, either way they were pretty much forced to stop.

Also dude we are still scared little apes... who try to, just as our ancestors did, attempt to cope with life and consciousness, in our case we don't blatantly sacrifice humans but just looks at the t.v. box for about an hour or so and you'll get what I'm talking about. Plus at least the deities of the Aztecs would try to support life the great old ones would just try to consume and drive everything bat shit insane, though personally the gods of Chaos in WAR don't seem like such a bad option

Btw in general I somewhat agree with the concept of shamanism being somewhat 'demon' oriented but in the classical definition of the word demon, a free and wild spirit that tends to have somewhat of a lose temper...are the spirits of nature all love, peace, and joy? No they aren't, nature can be cruel plain and simple, in my experience most of the spirits of the land (genius loci) tend to have an aggresive spark to them almost animalistic, that is why you'll notice a lot of old school shamanism involves domination and appeasement, plus the shaman's items act like spiritual armor and weaponry. Although we can find many allies in the natural world it is also wrought with dangers if you're to careless, I mean sure the tiger may look beautiful but if ya get near it it'll claw your face off (just look at all the cases of similar incidents with the fairies of the British isles.) In my opinion there is still alot of wisdom that we can gain from shamanic practice and technique, including the ecstacy, but after all is said and done we are magicians in the realm between the shaman and the priest. In the case of the Aztecs I'm personally looking into the use of blood for divination with the vision serpent and also the astrological importance they placed upon Orion's belt which I find pretty damn interesting, also various things practiced by the indigenous people are clearly part of the traditions of brujeria and curanderismo that I apply and study.

On the case of deities simply being archetypes or egregores...I loathe the mentality that simplifies a deity as such, I remember all the arguments me and Starbeast would get into regarding that very subject xD the subjective spirit model vs. the objective. Funny thing is that ultimately we both just ended up agreeing thanks to our hermetic philosophies, God made man in his image and all things are a part of God in the words of Meister Eckhart "The eye with which I see God is the same with which God sees me. My eye and God's eye is one eye, and one sight, and one knowledge, and one love." Thus in that sense all of creation is reflected within us and yet is also separate from us, in my case I tend to focus on spiritual beings as outside of the self whilst still acknowledging that they and I are connected, whilst others may focus on how they are within them whilst still acknowledging that they are also distinctly separate, in my opinion viewing spiritual beings as being outside of the self and actively conscious is not primitive rather it's just another format to working with them and in my opinion in most cases is the healthiest mentality to take when actively conjuring and working with the mysteries..but then again that is just a personal opinion.

Luz,
Anthony

P.S. Apocalypto is about the Maya and has some pretty big inaccuracies for one Kukuklan the god being sacrifice too is essentially Quatzacoatl and just like Quatzacoatl didn't accept human sacrifice neither did Kukuklan, also the Mayas never had conga lines full of victims to be sacrificed, the Spaniards never really interacted with the Mayas as such and blah....this article does a better job of describing how much Apocalypto butchers history and demonizes the Maya then I possibly can: http://www.signonsan...ws_1c12mel.html

Oh btw I applaud the fact that ya aren't giving the mental masturbation most people give out regarding shamanism and such, good on ya brother :cool:

Edited by Guy, 18 March 2011 - 01:06 AM.

There will be rest, and sure stars shining
Over the roof-tops crowned with snow,
A reign of rest, serene forgetting,
The music of stillness holy and low.

I will make this world of my devising
Out of a dream in my lonely mind.
I shall find the crystal of peace, – above me
Stars I shall find.
-Sarah Teasdale

Not sure I want Aztec shamanism to become influencial. History remembers the last time they had power;

Anybody seen "Apocalypto?" Scary shit. I'd rather worship the Great Old Ones, if I had to choose.

Don't get me wrong, that great if you see the light side of Aztecs, Incas, Mayas, etc, but talk about demonlatry. The europeans were right, there is such a thing as primitive savages. The Siberian Shamans, were also a bunch of demon worshipers. Shamanism isn't always such an enlightened thing. Infact despite the positive modern reconstruction of it, it's usually really primitive and barbaric. Man as scared little apes, anthropmorphising destructive powers of the earth and finding someway to "worship," or appease them, to make them stop. All hail civilization, it may not be the best of things, but dispite the bad side, it is actual progress. No disrespect to shamanism as it is the root of magic, but D&D is right at putting the shaman as the primitive magic user, the Magus is the advanced.

This is perhaps the most ignorant post I have seen on this forum in particular as a response to another members path.

Learn your history and learn to see the world outside of your own ethnocentric point of view.

Sorry, I'm not a pretty historian. Might sound like a white male, but I am. Also, primitives are primitives, savages are savages, ever heard about the wild of pan. It's not like these hippy new agers, and college educated revitalists of non-western modern culture, discribe the stuff. It's when man acted like a moraless taboo fearing wild sexual ape. True blood and lives are still split in the name of God and the almighty dollar, but give me a rifle in a war to die for some god or peoples anyday, over having some priest tell me the gods demand I have my living heart cut open and torn out while still beating, only to have my body be beheaded and kicked down a large temple stairs, to some stinking body pit, to decompose. Animals don't even dismember each other like that, what the lions don't eat the buzzards and worms do. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Have some respect for the shell that houses a sentient being as precious as a human. Fuck your gods! Bloodthristy demons. Not all of our past and less civilized worshiped nature, they worshiped man made an animal, which isn't an animal but a demonic blight.

When reconstructing the past in order to better the present, choose carefully, the past is full of primitive barbarianism, just like the present is full of social crimes and government corruption and genocide.

For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.

This is perhaps the most ignorant post I have seen on this forum in particular as a response to another members path.

Learn your history and learn to see the world outside of your own ethnocentric point of view.

Though I partially agree with your statement, I can't help to see some wisdom in his, ultimately we shouldn't have to much of a naive perspective on the violence of our forefathers, in our societies case we've found a more eloquent and 'civilized' method to our personal poison, hence ignorance is bliss. Now what I find ironic is that man in hating his own nature which is clearly seen in this little text:

ChaosTech:
"Not all of our past and less civilized worshiped nature, they worshiped man made an animal, which isn't an animal but a demonic blight."

doesn't seem to grow or learn from it rather attempting poorly to jam our more brutal side into the closet or under the bed, we are as much as any creature in this planet, a part of nature, the difference is that our brutality and violence manifests in a much more cunning and at that 'cruel' and systematic fashion, but what ChaosTech seems to also forget is that a good amount of those sacrificed would happily do so, those who where prisoners of war may have found it honorable but meh they're prisoners of war after everything is said and done, you have to remember that when the Aztecs would go to battle their main thing was to capture and sacrifice those who they fought against, not kill them in the heat of the moment as our current European mentality is, it is a different culture and a different mentality. ChaosTech unfortunately you aren't doing much for your case by spouting out like a pissed off teenager "Fuck your gods! BloodthiRsty demons"...whoa little fundamentalist like right there uh...at that you've just said fuck the deities of most if not all neo-pagans, so relax with the sentiments, you who believe gods are archetypes seem to be personifying them alittle to strongly..guess what just as people change so do the gods, do you truly believe for one SECOND that the Mayan or Aztec pantheon is truly "dead" perhaps some of them are but a good number are still thriving and just as their followers grow and change, so do they. Teo's idea of revolution is his own and he really isn't trying to bring back human sacrifice rather he is calling us to join together and tumble down our current system of corruption ("Babylon") through sacred techniques he holds dear and he has evolved and grown into, we should respect that even if it is under the banner of something you may consider "primitive" and "savage" in the old days, things change it's a universal constant one of the few, don't get to stuck in past accounts and imagery.

There will be rest, and sure stars shining
Over the roof-tops crowned with snow,
A reign of rest, serene forgetting,
The music of stillness holy and low.

I will make this world of my devising
Out of a dream in my lonely mind.
I shall find the crystal of peace, – above me
Stars I shall find.
-Sarah Teasdale

Sorry, I'm not a pretty historian. Might sound like a white male, but I am. Also, primitives are primitives, savages are savages, ever heard about the wild of pan. It's not like these hippy new agers, and college educated revitalists of non-western modern culture, discribe the stuff. It's when man acted like a moraless taboo fearing wild sexual ape. True blood and lives are still split in the name of God and the almighty dollar, but give me a rifle in a war to die for some god or peoples anyday, over having some priest tell me the gods demand I have my living heart cut open and torn out while still beating, only to have my body be beheaded and kicked down a large temple stairs, to some stinking body pit, to decompose. Animals don't even dismember each other like that, what the lions don't eat the buzzards and worms do. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Have some respect for the shell that houses a sentient being as precious as a human. Fuck your gods! Bloodthristy demons. Not all of our past and less civilized worshiped nature, they worshiped man made an animal, which isn't an animal but a demonic blight.

When reconstructing the past in order to better the present, choose carefully, the past is full of primitive barbarianism, just like the present is full of social crimes and government corruption and genocide.

I am likely wasting time by even attempting as response as your scattered thoughts and broad generalizations speak for themselves...

But nonetheless, lets start with the basics

All religions and all spiritual paths involve sacrifice. Whether it be shedding blood, material positions, or your own leisure time...there is sacrifice involved. The Mayans and Aztecs chose to sacrifice the blood of their war prisoners, their enemies were destroyed and their life energy was exchanged in order to maintain the balance of order...hmm, much the same way that those with the mentality of "give me a rifle in a war to die for some good " are willing to sacrifice others and themselves for what they believe to be the proper order of things.

At this point I should also point out that Inca sacrifice is an all together different thing without martial undertones. For the Inca to be sacrificed was the ultimate sign of devotion towards the order of the universe. In fact, Inca nobles and their families offered themselves as sacrificial victims willingly. Lets also keep in mind that the value on human life is an advent of modernity; in traditional societies life and death are part of the natural rhythms of existence, there is no additional value place on human life because it is the spirit that really matters in the end.

The gods will always demand sacrifice; even if you do not subscribe to a spiritual path. A white american like yourself must sacrifice your self to the capitalistic machine - you work 9-5 and literally relinquish those moments of your life as a trade off to maintain a roof over your head, to feed your family, and to maintain the order of things. Capitalism has imposed itself on other civilizations much the same way that the sacrificial rites of the Mayans and Aztecs did in Mesoamerica - people willing to or not are forced into the system and are forced to make sacrifice!

Furthermore, the Mayans, Aztec, and Incas in terms of mathematics, city planning, astronomy, and numerous other areas of "advanced" civilization were leagues above what was happening in Europe at the time. Does the term dark ages ring a bell? While Europeans were living in fear and mercy of the whims of the neighboring feudal power ransacking their villages; there were advancements occurring in the America's that modern scholars are only now beginning to understand (search Quipu on the internet, google the scholar Anthony Aveni among many- or better yet, just do any bit of research before flaming such uniformed generalizations).

As to your notion of Magus operating somewhere above and beyond shammanism, you are simply incorrect. It is in the savage landscape of Dark Age Europe where villagers lived in fear from day to day that the "Magus" arrives on the scene as a form of social relief and protection. Their role is precisely a shammanic one - a mediator and petitioner between the spiritual and material realms - no more or less primitive than the first hunters and gatherers that decided to sympathetically depict the success of their hunt on cave murals.

Get your facts straight, do your research, and respect those cultures that are not your own!

Can't win against the "all tolerance," crowd. Didn't think I would as arguements like mine, don't fit into the hippy new age "down with YHVH, down with science, praise the old gods they were atlantean and enlightened." Reminds me of the attitudes toward the east in the turn of the century by the "elite." When really they are poor sods, and the story hasn't changed today. Enjoy all the spiritual respect, it is the (coming) age of Aquarious. Man can build his mythical wonderland, past, present, and future.

Your analogy about being sacrficed is sad. Sounds like how we should be sensitive to the Jihad bombers, as they are so poor and faithful to Allah. What a sacrifice. Bleh, I'm done with this thread. Carry on, but I'll just read or not.

For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.

Chaostech,Since you have opted out of further discussion in this thread all I will say is this; in the future please show some respect for what you may only have a superficial understanding of. If all you can do is present a few uninformed opinions and pass judgement on entire cultures then please do not respond. To other members, consider this matter resolved. Chaostech's posts have already been sufficiently addressed by the above replies and need no further debating that can potentially lead to something more unwelcome. Just let it go and stick to the original post of the thread.

Can't win against the "all tolerance," crowd. Didn't think I would as arguements like mine, don't fit into the hippy new age "down with YHVH, down with science, praise the old gods they were atlantean and enlightened." Reminds me of the attitudes toward the east in the turn of the century by the "elite." When really they are poor sods, and the story hasn't changed today. Enjoy all the spiritual respect, it is the (coming) age of Aquarious. Man can build his mythical wonderland, past, present, and future.

Your analogy about being sacrficed is sad. Sounds like how we should be sensitive to the Jihad bombers, as they are so poor and faithful to Allah. What a sacrifice. Bleh, I'm done with this thread. Carry on, but I'll just read or not.

Meh and here I expected an actual intelligent dialogue to possibly form but what can you do and down with YHVH..? how can I possibly connect with the cosmic flow of hyborean intelligence a.k.a reptilian knowledge and dialogue with the ascended masters of political correctness without the four holy letters of free love bro, I would totally have to tune my peace crystal with something else man... but on a serious note, rather then calling those who disagree with you abunch of terrorist loving hippies (even though you essentially made most of your points pointing at D&D, hollywood movies, and accounts made by catholic conquistadors, things that ain't much valued amongst those studying the esoteric arts, as valid sources for ones views on a subject no matter how 'chaos' you may be) you should attempt to actually exchange ideas and thoughts on a matter, respect isn't a bad thing dude, on the other hand being asinine is a bitch. Btw what do you expect saying something like that in the part of OC titled as "INDIGENOUS PATHS" Noooo...possibly no one here will disagree with you calling an ancient and pretty beautiful culture blood thirsty demon worshipers..lol *sigh* well best wishes to ya brother.

But yea man to follow Nalyd Khezr Bey wise words and on the subject of Aztec spiritual beliefs and such I was wondering what some of you guys with experience in the practice and field might think about the elements of blood letting and its utilization within a spiritual practice, including what has sort of trickled down to the modern day practitioners of these spiritual paths. Also Teo you seemed to have stumbled upon a revolutionary sort of spiritual being, one demanding change and a sort of 'evolution' both political and spiritual, I've stumbled upon these sorts of spiritual beings working with the Afro currents, they feel a tad angrier then the others, I notice that vibe a lot amongst the petro lwa of vodou and amongst many spiritual beings associated with the Kongo (the birthplace of Palo Mayombe.) Any opinions on that? Also what occurs when a spiritual being becomes connected to you, demanding some sort of sacrifice of personal life essence, be it blood, sexual flood, or general 'energy', I know a friend of mine who claims a connection with certain spiritual beings that act as servitors yet feed off him, acting as a flame on the wax of his sphere of sensation and vital force so to say, is such a sacrifice 'valid' some currents are slightly connected to beings like that, Castaneda spoke of the death-defiers that ya posted about Teo or the class of sexual beings talked about within Michael Bertiaux book...are some spirits only open for relations in which they sort of feed off of the servitor? and is this truly a completely negative thing or is the price worth paying?

Edited by Guy, 17 March 2011 - 06:36 AM.

There will be rest, and sure stars shining
Over the roof-tops crowned with snow,
A reign of rest, serene forgetting,
The music of stillness holy and low.

I will make this world of my devising
Out of a dream in my lonely mind.
I shall find the crystal of peace, – above me
Stars I shall find.
-Sarah Teasdale