I don't really understand the outrage over this trade. Value-wise, yes, it sucks we traded a first rounder for a second rounder. But given what BC had to work with you can't be that upset. We lost a 29th overall pick and gained.. maybe a 35th pick? If the rumors are true, we're talking about a guy who was caught smoking a joint on the team plane. If not, we're still dealing with a guy who was (subsequently) demoted and had disagreements with the coach. And despite his scrappy play, was unable to get back into the starting lineup of a team that won a third of its games.

The fact that we were able to get a 2nd round pick for this, is pretty good.

Better case would have been if he was really good and we traded for a better 1st rounder.. but given the circumstances I think we did alright.

What. The. fuck? Smoking a joint on the team plane? Where did these rumours come from?

We all know Bargs did well on the wonderlic and that's a big reason why we drafted him ahead of Aldridge. But I've never heard the Raps mentioned as a team ahead of the curve (or even at the curve) on advanced stats. Teams like the ones I mentioned are always brought up, and we should be too. Ive never heard of the raps contract help from any of the major advanced-stats companies (like other teams do) and, to my knowledge, we've never hired anybody from MIT or anything like that. We've never had anybody on the panel of the Sloan conference... I just don't see the evidence that we are making the necessary investments here... and the team's performance backs that up.

The Euro thing is more about where we allocate our scouting resources, as I mentioned already

Nash was clearly a mismatch for DC's system, culture.. which is why the pursuit of him was so ridiculous. The leader of the org needs every move to reinforce the vision/culture he's trying to establish.. .and the bumbling pursuit of Nash showed shocking neglennce in this arena.

I'm not buying your argument that "it's OK if an agent bends him over backward because it happens to others as well"

I've already made arguments that BC is accountable for the high level media plan of the team.

I am on iPhone. Anyone find the advanced video that raptors are one of only 10 teams to use to quiet this person?

dude we r paying landy fukin fields 20 mil to warm up the bench, and we are willing to overpay the likes of calderon, amir, almost nash. overpaying is what we do regardless!! why not overpay on a quality player!

you are telling me a line up of lowry, johnson, defensive anchor(some1 like thabo) barg and big v isn't intriguing?? think twice and calculate the payroll!! it works!!

dude we r paying landy fukin fields 20 mil to warm up the bench, and we are willing to overpay the likes of calderon, amir, almost nash. overpaying is what we do regardless!! why not overpay on a quality player!

you are telling me a line up of lowry, johnson, defensive anchor(some1 like thabo) barg and big v isn't intriguing?? think twice and calculate the payroll!! it works!!

Isn't that what BC did? He overpayed for Fields, who in most circles can be defined as a quality player.

So you're saying we should've kept JJ, not sign Fields and gotten Thabo instead (who I believe is not on the trading block)? How can we calculate the payroll if you're suggesting a line-up of only 5 players??? That is indeed intriguing.

James Johnson stinks. He has tons of potential, but has never shown any real indication he'll figure it out. His terrible offensive skills and high TO rate completely cancel out any positives on the defensive end. The fact that he was taken as low as 16th, with his physical skills, shows that there wasn't a lot of faith in him even coming out of college. The league (and even more so the summer league) is filled with these guys if the Raptors want another one in the future.

I am on iPhone. Anyone find the advanced video that raptors are one of only 10 teams to use to quiet this person?

aalllllrighty then. I've spent a good chunk of my morning researching which teams have analyitics departments.... and I am happy to report that we are one!!! Although other teams have higher-ranking officials as stat guys (or just more of them), we've got 2 consultants providing us info... Alex Rucker an Keith Boyarsky are our advanced stats department.

I find this encouraging. Although I still think BC should be fired for 4 straight lottos. And I stand by my original statement that a new GM should have a robust stats team.

We all know Bargs did well on the wonderlic and that's a big reason why we drafted him ahead of Aldridge. But I've never heard the Raps mentioned as a team ahead of the curve (or even at the curve) on advanced stats. Teams like the ones I mentioned are always brought up, and we should be too. Ive never heard of the raps contract help from any of the major advanced-stats companies (like other teams do) and, to my knowledge, we've never hired anybody from MIT or anything like that. We've never had anybody on the panel of the Sloan conference... I just don't see the evidence that we are making the necessary investments here... and the team's performance backs that up.

The team employs both Alex Rucker and Keith Boyarsky. They do use analytics. And what does that really have to do with BC? You never hear the Spurs talk analytics, yet Buford is probably one of the best GM's in the league.

The Euro thing is more about where we allocate our scouting resources, as I mentioned already

I think its smart to have a connection to Europe. The reason why the Cavs bailed on JV is primarily because of our Euro connection. JV was most likely not interested in an early buyout with the Cavs but would consider it with Toronto. There is more than just free agents when it comes to having a Euro connection. It would be dumb not to have one, IMO.

Nash was clearly a mismatch for DC's system, culture.. which is why the pursuit of him was so ridiculous. The leader of the org needs every move to reinforce the vision/culture he's trying to establish.. .and the bumbling pursuit of Nash showed shocking neglennce in this arena.

I think this is a personal belief. Casey was raving about Nash, and rightfully so. Even though he's not a defensive juggernaut, most PG's don't need to be. The PG's biggest task is to run an offense, and Nash is one of the best in the game (of all time) to be able to do that. The one thing this team desperately needs is an identity. Nash could have brought that to us. I don't see it as a ridiculous pursuit at all.

I'm not buying your argument that "it's OK if an agent bends him over backward because it happens to others as well"

I agree with you here. BC does tend to settle in a lot of cases when it comes to a players agent. I'm not sure if its because players don't want to come here, and so BC has to give back - but from an outsider looking in - it always appears that BC gives away too much. With regards to the Barbosa strategy.. I was personally happy to see him go. Not so much for the TPE but more so for the tank. Not sure if that was BC's intention - but it almost worked. We did lost a lot more games with LB out of the line up. Although we did lose a lot of games with him in the line up as well.

I've already made arguments that BC is accountable for the high level media plan of the team.

Not even sure why this is an argument. There are a lot of broadcasts around the league that are terrible. Most of those broadcasters have been around a long time - even longer then their GM's and Presidents. This is a valid complaint, but why lump it into a complaint about BC?

Why do so many RR homies over-value JJ??

To all the people asking why just a second rounder?? how could we possibly get an equal player in the second round???---
this isn't about who the Raptors are picking in next years 2nd round. It's an asset without a hit to the cap, plus a reduction of 2.8 M in salary next year. In the old CBA, JJ's (and Barbosa's) value may have been higher, but things are much different financially in the NBA and trades like these are going to become popular for teams looking to save some coin.

Plus, for every steal/block JJ had, he gave up the lane to an opponent/got pumped faked into giving up a layup or foul.

This was market value for James Johnson. Think of it as JJ in exchange for a 2nd rounder + 2.8 million dollars. Plus an open roster spot

good trade

JStockton wrote:

Isn't that what BC did? He overpayed for Fields, who in most circles can be defined as a quality player.

So you're saying we should've kept JJ, not sign Fields and gotten Thabo instead (who I believe is not on the trading block)? How can we calculate the payroll if you're suggesting a line-up of only 5 players??? That is indeed intriguing.

I can't believe what I'm reading here and all the Fuss over the trade of a bench dude JJ. In any other city...this trade wouldve been no big deal cause its just a bench warmner.

its only bench player. It is as simple as that. It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about a starter or a good role player etc. he aint no franchise player, we're talking about a coming off the bench player. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about bench player, not a starter, not our new players, not what might be pending, but we're talking about a bench player and making a fuss over what we got back. we're talking about bench man. How silly is that?

JJ doesnt do enough to get more then a 2nd rd pick....he damn well dont lead by example nor help others.. I know it's important to get a good return, I honestly do but we're talking about a bench player. We're talking about bench man. We're talking about a dude off the bench in JJ. We're talking about bench player on a crappy team. We're not talking about a roler player nor star or a starter. We're talking about bench player. When you have team, and you see each player, you've seen the team, you've seen everyone giving everything they've got, but we're talking about a bench player lazy dude smoking who gives no respect and yet right now you all are crying about a 2nd round pick we got for him.

Come on man...JJ aint worthy nothing...he might get kicked out soon to the d-league.

It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.

I got into this big argument with a friend over James Johnson a few months ago because I thought we did pretty well getting him. We basically traded a 29th pick for a guy who had been taken 16th, so it seemed like a really good deal. This guy was a big Bulls fan and I'm, obviously, a Raptors fan. Johnson played well to add fuel to the fire so I was proven right. Totally worth the trade.

If you look at the big picture though, it seems to me that James Johnson is just not as good as you'd think. From purely a player standpoint, ignoring what he did for us, he is a 16th overall player who was traded for a 29th pick, and then a 35th-36th pick. His career trajectory is not going in the right direction.

As for the pot story, it's just what I've read in a few forums/blogs. No sources, not that I'd expect there to be. If that rumor were true and out in the public, we wouldn't even get cash for this guy. But there have been some things leading up to it:

- in April the team plan had to be landed because the fire alarm had been set off by a player (can't find a source right now but I do remember reading about this)
- Johnson didn't play the following game.
- After the 2nd missed game, Casey mysteriously said "We chose as a staff not to play him. We’re going build the program the right way, we’re going to do things the right way, and we’ll go from there."

Considering Johnson is a hustle play guy who gives me the impression that he works hard, then Casey must be talking about something else when he said they wanted to be "doing things the right way". Right?

Does the name NoBan indicate a previous history of banishments from forums and boards? Any previous incarnations on the RR forum? Just wondering.

It doesnt, and I'm a true raps repub rookie. I was once banned from a mixed martial arts message board for saying a guy was gay, but didn't really have anything to do with this name. and really, i dont think rich franklin is gay, i was simply inquiring. Those MMA fans are REALLY defensive with the gay issue. which is strange, because the whole sport is super homoerotic.

Sometimes I post of forums as "hannoo," which is a culture in india that has like 27 different kinds of rice. I just pulled noban out of a hat on a different forum one day, because banning is the worst punishment you can get on these type of boards.

I can't believe what I'm reading here and all the Fuss over the trade of a bench dude JJ. In any other city...this trade wouldve been no big deal cause its just a bench warmner.

its only bench player. It is as simple as that. It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about a starter or a good role player etc. he aint no franchise player, we're talking about a coming off the bench player. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about bench player, not a starter, not our new players, not what might be pending, but we're talking about a bench player and making a fuss over what we got back. we're talking about bench man. How silly is that?

JJ doesnt do enough to get more then a 2nd rd pick....he damn well dont lead by example nor help others.. I know it's important to get a good return, I honestly do but we're talking about a bench player. We're talking about bench man. We're talking about a dude off the bench in JJ. We're talking about bench player on a crappy team. We're not talking about a roler player nor star or a starter. We're talking about bench player. When you have team, and you see each player, you've seen the team, you've seen everyone giving everything they've got, but we're talking about a bench player lazy dude smoking who gives no respect and yet right now you all are crying about a 2nd round pick we got for him.

Come on man...JJ aint worthy nothing...he might get kicked out soon to the d-league.

I agree on most your points. I just don't understand why you quoted what I wrote since it seems we are on the same page.