This is a link where Clapper very clearly states that there is no wiretapping of the Trump campaign.

I think it is safe to assume that you missed the fact that he specifically denies wire taps at the Trump Tower and that your link

This is a link from the New York Times claiming that government intel sources have transcripts of calls by General Flynn during the Trump campaign.

does not claim anywhere that those transcrips come from wire taps at the Trump Tower ?

So much for your claims.

Best regards Thomas

Clapper , in the link provided:

"There was no such wiretap activity mounted against the president-elect at the time, or as a candidate, or against his campaign."

He is very broad in his denial..... not specific about Trump Tower.

It's very clear that there was wiretapping of members of Trumps campaign, and it's very clear that Obamas administration, at a minimum, requested FISA permission to Target Trump personally, while he was a candidate.

It's really amazing to me that none of these facts disturbs any of you on this thread. If these facts were true about a conservative or republican in power against a liberal or DNC politician there is no doubt that you would be extremely upset at the implications.

It's very clear that there was wiretapping of members of Trumps campaign, and it's very clear that Obamas administration, at a minimum, requested FISA permission to Target Trump personally, while he was a candidate.

No it is not. The FBI might have done it if they thought there was reason to. If that's the case, it would have been their decision and would not have been ordered by the White House, as they don't have the power to order wiretapping of a US person (as you posted earlier - you might want to read that link again).

Pretty good article backdating all the "New sources" , basically showing that this seems to be a whisper telephone enhancement of a Heatstreat article about Russian foreign banks. Basically then the national review and others took it and made spins on it until we get the tweet, with "multiple news organization" support. http://www.factcheck.org/2017/03/examin ... tap-claim/

You forget when Reid accused Romney of Tax evasion with absolutely no evidence? The press ignored it because it helped Obama win a second term. If you are going to have outrage be a little consistent. Unless you can post all the threads where you got upset with Reid and his lie and conspiracy.

As before, you don't have a very convincing argument.

And you are definitely on my not worth debating list, along with Socalgeo.

And you are definitely on my not worth debating list, along with Socalgeo.

Of course because it destroys yours. Fact remains the Senate Majority leader on the record said Romney did not pay his taxes. Which later was found to be untrue. So he did it with no evidence knowing the press would run with it and it would hurt Romney. Painting him as a rich guy that beats the system (sound familiar?) it worked and Romney lost.

So because one of the highest ranking Democrats said something with absolutely nothing to back it up and it helped Obama it doesn't matter and it's not a good argument. Then a president you hate so much you can't even say his name does the same you want to burn it all down and it's the lead on CNN every hour and we have to listen? Impeach?

No wonder you don't want to debate it. You can't.

Your thought process is so warped, delusional and destructive. Open your eyes. Please.

While Trump tweets appear spontaneous and volatile, I think there is likely strategy behind them. Since his biggest obstacle so far has been the media running wild with unsubstantiated claims from anonymous sources, maybe the best way to shine light on the problem and hypocrisy is to apply it to media darling Obama. The media / Democrats (one in the same for the most part) are outraged Trump could make such a claim about Obama without any evidence, yet they have no problem reporting investigations the current President is in collusion with Russia despite zero evidence.

But there is evidence and there has been for months. We have been posting these links in the Russia thread and since before the election. Google it, too. Also, yes, this is a yuge distraction from the fact that the orange menace is not doing a damn thing but spending OUR money. Because he is such a smart business man. He already admitted he pays zero in taxes and he feels entitled to all of OUR money. As long as he blames Obama, he can fool some of the people all of the time. Some of these people have been conditioned to believe it is Obama's fault no matter what. Pavlov was famous for this.

This is BS and you know it. The "evidence" that you refer to is based on unnamed sources in the intel community.

Interesting how you righties go along with "unnamed sources" in the intel community when it came to Obama, Hillary, Democrats, and anyone who does not fall in line with your lines. Just sayin'

You are just repeating the same mistake. He just says that the campaign wasn't targeted. That doesn't mean that those wiretaps don't exist, it just means that Trumps campaign was just stupid enough to call people that are wiretapped, like enemy states operatives.

and it's very clear that Obamas administration, at a minimum, requested FISA permission to Target Trump personally, while he was a candidate.

That is just your usual deluded fantasy. Unless of course you can proof that the FBI acted on orders by the Obama administration.Also, there wouldn't be a scandal at all, since we know for a fact that the Trump campaign did have, probaby illegal, connections to Russian intelligence officials and that those Russian intelligence agencies did interfere with your election.And since Trump is now President, he has the power to unclassfy all those information and existing tape recordings and proof that nothing bad happened. Why doesn't he? He knows that would mean a lengthy prison stay for him and his fellow traitors.

It's really amazing to me that none of these facts disturbs any of you on this thread

That is simply because you are making them up.

If these facts were true about a conservative or republican in power against a liberal or DNC politician there is no doubt that you would be extremely upset at the implications.

Well, since everything the GOP ever threw against Obama and Hillary is completely fabricated BS, no need to invent a birth in Kenya if you have anything real, that decission doesn't exist in the real world, so keep your strawman where you got it from.

For all those saying "Obamas administration did X, Y and Z and therefore its all Obamas fault" lets take a minute to remember that it was Obamas administration who very publicly investigated Hillary Clinton and extremely publicly *reopened* the Clinton investigation in the final weeks before the election, an act which completely altered the election at that point.

The administration does not sit around waiting for the President to tell everyone what to do that day, they get on with stuff they deem worthy of doing and in 99% of situations the White House is never involved.

For all those saying "Obamas administration did X, Y and Z and therefore its all Obamas fault" lets take a minute to remember that it was Obamas administration who very publicly investigated Hillary Clinton and extremely publicly *reopened* the Clinton investigation in the final weeks before the election, an act which completely altered the election at that point.

The administration does not sit around waiting for the President to tell everyone what to do that day, they get on with stuff they deem worthy of doing and in 99% of situations the White House is never involved.

What is the point you are trying to make? Are you saying that since Comey investigated Hillary due to her secret emails being found in a pedophiles laptop that it was ok for the Obama administration to spy on Trump and release the classified info that was collected? Because it wasn't "ok". It was police state style tactics that no one should accept.

For all those saying "Obamas administration did X, Y and Z and therefore its all Obamas fault" lets take a minute to remember that it was Obamas administration who very publicly investigated Hillary Clinton and extremely publicly *reopened* the Clinton investigation in the final weeks before the election, an act which completely altered the election at that point.

The administration does not sit around waiting for the President to tell everyone what to do that day, they get on with stuff they deem worthy of doing and in 99% of situations the White House is never involved.

What is the point you are trying to make? Are you saying that since Comey investigated Hillary due to her secret emails being found in a pedophiles laptop that it was ok for the Obama administration to spy on Trump and release the classified info that was collected? Because it wasn't "ok". It was police state style tactics that no one should accept.

You missed the point completely, which is not surprising. Why don't you re-read this

The administration does not sit around waiting for the President to tell everyone what to do that day, they get on with stuff they deem worthy of doing and in 99% of situations the White House is never involved.

So go crazy at Obama all you want but unless Trump can produce the smoking gun that actually proves Obama's involvement & knowledge of the alleged tapping, let alone prove that the alleged tapping actually happened then his allegations are nothing more than allegations.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed Trump is a spy. Being a spy requires, among other things, keeping the fact that you're spying for the enemy secret. Trump's bragging and tweeting every other day about how much he enjoys sucking Putin's d*ck is anything but keeping things secret and therefore he may not be a spy by definition. It makes him pathetic, proverbial useful idiot.

For all those saying "Obamas administration did X, Y and Z and therefore its all Obamas fault" lets take a minute to remember that it was Obamas administration who very publicly investigated Hillary Clinton and extremely publicly *reopened* the Clinton investigation in the final weeks before the election, an act which completely altered the election at that point.

The administration does not sit around waiting for the President to tell everyone what to do that day, they get on with stuff they deem worthy of doing and in 99% of situations the White House is never involved.

What is the point you are trying to make? Are you saying that since Comey investigated Hillary due to her secret emails being found in a pedophiles laptop that it was ok for the Obama administration to spy on Trump and release the classified info that was collected? Because it wasn't "ok". It was police state style tactics that no one should accept.

If you need it spelling out for you, then you might just not be worth discussing anything this complicated with.

But anyway - if Obama couldn't control his administration enough to give his own parties candidate a free run, without the FBI interfering, why is everyone ascribing any action taken against Trump directly to Obama..? Hmm?

"The President used the word wiretaps in quotes to mean, broadly, surveillance and other activities.""Spicer also said that Trump was referring to the Obama administration broadly -- and not accusing Obama of personal involvement -- when he tweeted that "Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower" and accused Obama of being a "bad" or "sick guy.""

original tweets in the article make it rather obvious that Spicer is trying to spin crap into gold.

"The President used the word wiretaps in quotes to mean, broadly, surveillance and other activities.""Spicer also said that Trump was referring to the Obama administration broadly -- and not accusing Obama of personal involvement -- when he tweeted that "Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower" and accused Obama of being a "bad" or "sick guy.""

original tweets in the article make it rather obvious that Spicer is trying to spin crap into gold.

This whole adminstration is a farce. Let's see the defenders of 45 justify this.

This whole adminstration is a farce. Let's see the defenders of 45 justify this.

Still can't say "President Trump" huh? Speaks volumes.

As for justifying, you guys justified Reid lying about Romney evading his taxes because you had an unhealthy hate for a successful person and it hurt him and helped your candidate win a second term. Nowhere did you demand evidence or call him out. Actually you recited the baseless lie and smear and did the same thing Reid did. Means to an end just as long as it's your end.

Now you want to have a huge drama play out and demand evidence and have CNN demand it as well as a way to destroy another successful rich man who beat your candidate like a red headed step child last November.

It's really scary how depraved and twisted this thinking is but I guess when your policy was rejected and you have no new ideas its what you have do leading up to another election in two years.

NIK, forget about the posters here and think seriously about the consequences of the POTUS lying through his thumbs on a near daily basis, excoriating the press, twisting facts and truth to his own convenience on a scale never before seen in US political history. This is so patently destructive to the fabric of our of society it almost beggars belief. It should make you as sick to your stomach as it does to any Republican legislator in the privacy of their own home and tongue loosened by a shot of bourbon. Trump is not normal, he's not good, he needs to be reined in now and Republicans have the exclusive and awesome responsibility to do so. There's no one else now. You won, we concede complete and total defeat, but please don't tell me this is what is good for the country. It is not.

"The President used the word wiretaps in quotes to mean, broadly, surveillance and other activities.""Spicer also said that Trump was referring to the Obama administration broadly -- and not accusing Obama of personal involvement -- when he tweeted that "Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower" and accused Obama of being a "bad" or "sick guy.""

original tweets in the article make it rather obvious that Spicer is trying to spin crap into gold.

You just can't make this stuff up. I saw this earlier today and just laughed. Thing is, nothing's going to come of it, it'll just be forgotten along with the countless other complete fabrications Trump's spewed forth the past 16 months. Like the millions of illegal voters, the voters being bused in to Vermont, the YUGE crowd at his inauguration, the people dancing in NYC on 9/11 and on and on. Well, at least he's getting Mexico to pay for that wall..........oh wait

NIK, forget about the posters here and think seriously about the consequences of the POTUS lying through his thumbs on a near daily basis, excoriating the press, twisting facts and truth to his own convenience on a scale never before seen in US political history. This is so patently destructive to the fabric of our of society it almost beggars belief. It should make you as sick to your stomach as it does to any Republican legislator in the privacy of their own home and tongue loosened by a shot of bourbon. Trump is not normal, he's not good, he needs to be reined in now and Republicans have the exclusive and awesome responsibility to do so. There's no one else now. You won, we concede complete and total defeat, but please don't tell me this is what is good for the country. It is not.

Trying to reason with the unreasonable is not logical, or so Spock would probably say.

What will happen when they find no evidence? Will anyone be in trouble? Trump accused Obama of a crime, that is a serious thing!

I dunno you didn't seem to care when Reid accused Romney of a crime. Why are you so mad at this? Wasn't that a serious thing? Why didn't you give Reid a deadline to provide proof? Then when Romney did prove Reid made it up neither you or the MSM or Reid apologized. Then again it helped Obama win the election so it was ok huh?

You guys have lost all sense of reality. Wow that election really did make your heads explode. Think I will go watch some youtube vids of that night. Watching Martha Raddatz cry was pure gold.

I get the feeling that Trump supporters have back themselves into a corner now. At what point will they become too ashamed to continue supporting this clown? At what point will they become too ashamed to defend the indefensible? It's painful to watch.

I get the feeling that Trump supporters have back themselves into a corner now. At what point will they become too ashamed to continue supporting this clown? .

That is already happening. They come up with bullshit excuses, "doesn´t make sense to talk to liberals" or such nonesense, but in fact that is just the cheap way out instead of "ok, you where right all along, he is a jerk".

You guys have lost all sense of reality. Wow that election really did make your heads explode.

Funny, I was going to same the same of you. You can't seem to not make excuses or want to attack others for pointing things out.

As to your comment about Reid, if you cannot understand the difference in power between the President and a Congressman and the various limits to their powers then I again refer to your comment about losing all sense of reality. For that I'll ask you this: Did that false accusation make Reid lose credibility (and don't weasel out with "he never had credibility to begin with"). And if so then why would Trump making a false accusation not also make you feel he has lost some credibility?

Tugg

I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner

And Tugger said all that is necessary to say about your inability a congressman of one party, that may or may not have known if his allegations are correct or not, vs. a US President that knows exactly what is correct or not and does have the power to unclassify all that evidence whenever he chooses to....

In a striking repudiation of President Trump, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, a Republican, said on Wednesday that he had seen no indication of Mr. Trump's claim on Twitter that former President Barack Obama wiretapped his phones in Trump Tower during the 2016 presidential campaign.

“We don’t have any evidence that that took place,’’ Representative Devin Nunes, Republican of California and chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said at a news conference on Capitol Hill. “In fact, I don’t believe — in the last week of time, people we’ve talked to, I don’t think there was an actual tap of Trump Tower.”

I don't think anyone has ever claimed Trump is a spy. Being a spy requires, among other things, keeping the fact that you're spying for the enemy secret. Trump's bragging and tweeting every other day about how much he enjoys sucking Putin's d*ck is anything but keeping things secret and therefore he may not be a spy by definition. It makes him pathetic, proverbial useful idiot.

Being a spy also means you are pretty intelligent. And that precludes the president right there.

The charge that Barrack Obama had Trump's phones tapped is now 12 days old, and Trump is still not backing down.

Barrack Obama has denied it. James Clapper, the director of national intelligence under President Obama has said it never happened.The F.B.I. director has said there was no wiretap on Trump Tower. The Republican speaker of the House, Paul Ryan has rejected the claim.Senator Richard M. Burr, Republican of North Carolina, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee has denied it.Representative Devin Nunes, Republican of California, Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee has denied it.

Yet Trump persists. At one point Sean Spicer suggested that Mr. Obama used Britain’s Government Communications Headquarters, the signals agency known as GCHQ, to spy on Mr. Trump. Britain's GCHQ spokesperson has denied it.

For me, this episode is even more damming and more revealing than the insane speech he gave at CIA headquarters on his third day on the job, and that's saying a lot.

How can this man lead the nation when nobody believes anything he says?

I get the feeling that Trump supporters have back themselves into a corner now. At what point will they become too ashamed to continue supporting this clown? At what point will they become too ashamed to defend the indefensible? It's painful to watch.

They will just say the usually thing about enjoying watching left wing people get upset about Trump and how they'll enjoy the next four years, etc. I could probably cut and paste that from an existing reply..

salttee wrote:

Yet Trump persists. At one point Sean Spicer suggested that Mr. Obama used Britain’s Government Communications Headquarters, the signals agency known as GCHQ, to spy on Mr. Trump. Britain's GCHQ spokesperson has denied it.

Next he'll say Obama was working with China on this. If he does say that, then you read it here first!

[Funny, I was going to same the same of you. You can't seem to not make excuses or want to attack others for pointing things out.

As to your comment about Reid, if you cannot understand the difference in power between the President and a Congressman and the various limits to their powers then I again refer to your comment about losing all sense of reality. For that I'll ask you this: Did that false accusation make Reid lose credibility (and don't weasel out with "he never had credibility to begin with"). And if so then why would Trump making a false accusation not also make you feel he has lost some credibility?

Tugg

Reid was a Senator and Majority leader. (You don't even understand how government works) and next to Obama the most powerful person in the party. He and Pelosi actually had more power than the president. Nothing gets passed without them and they basically were running the show. Of course his lie about Romney didn't lose him any credibility. It was a planned move to try to destroy the opposition and it worked. That is why it was celebrated by you and media because the candidate YOU and the MEDIA wanted won. Now all of a sudden when your candidate lost you want everyone to resign and the president impeached. It's insane.

Trump is just doing what the times and current politics dictate. Blurt out something and get it on twitter and the 24 news cycle and hope people believe it.

As for Trump's credibility I could care less if he uses the propaganda angle like you guys do. I just want him to cut the budget so we don't end up owing 30 Trillion. Fix health care and get people working. I am going to give him 4 years. If he doesn't do it then I will vote Cuomo in 2020 because I know for a fact he will.

During that press conference yesterday I found it funny that Sean Spicer mentioned two NY Times articles as proof of wiretapping. The same NY Times Trump has called fake news!

Would have been killer if the NYT correspondent at the time would have blurted out the question about why they're using articles from news outlets they say are fake. Either Sean admits that they're not fake (which validates their legitimacy) or Sean and the administration are shown to be hypocritical (yet again). I mean...can you imagine this latter one?

"Yes, the NYT or failing NYT as the President calls it, is fake and we still stand by that, but we like this article and we'll use it for our claim".

And there you have it, the government of the United Kingdom has kindly requested that Crazy Spice and Trumpty Dumpty go fuck themselves and not to include them in their hysterical fantasies. Bonus shot..story not carried on Fox News homepage. This President is now a complete embarrassment of truly international proportions and the tools at Fox are desperately trying to craft some new positioning for today's WH presser. You couldn't write a movie more outlandish than this unholy bandwagon of morons.

Again - Trump has played you. The net result of this episode is that the alt-left's (all of you) narrative that President Trump is working for Russia has been totally debunked. You are all conviently leaving this out of your hysterics.