Sad to see a member go like that. I have never and will never support permanent bans. Yes, he was getting too emotional about it but people get over things. Losing a member is worse than anything imo. Not unless someone is here just to troll...yes he was an extreme fan but I don't think he was here just to bash...he was just trying to present his points.

Originally Posted by Soldier 95B

So that is a no.

Yes that is a no lol. Really now? Your argument is that they aren't giving us full retail games for free? Every month? Now I don't have PS+ so I can't speak much for it but I have seen them give out plenty of free games, now how many are retail as opposed to PS1 or PSN, I don't know but maybe someone knows here. What I do know is that the trials of new games and free rentals every month is alone worth a good chunk of the deal.

I had not thought about this through, if paying for PS Plus gives us access to Gaikai then it's a fair deal then.

I think it might. Also, if I heard correctly, we'll get a collection of older games too (BC)...can someone back me up on this?

Originally Posted by Fon

You know, some people are saying that + services are worth it. Personally I agree that they've been doing a fantastic job so far with it. But they could have handled this part better. Here is what they should have done: Make online free still for all gamers but deny Gaikai services (Like streaming and recording); cross game chat and cloud unless you pay for their additional services.

As unicron7 said, I forgot about Gaikai, yes, the cloud service costs money too. If they include that, honestly I don't see a problem.

See, I was angry about the share button because I figured it'd be behind a paywall so I wouldn't want to pay just for sharing. Since they're giving it to us a full package, we'll see what the details are and so far I'm realizing that there will be a lot to go with it.

So while I don't care about sharing, I may use it. I have wanted to share in the past. It's very painful to share from consoles. So if this gives us the full advantages of the PS4, $#@! sign me up.

Just as a PS+ and online is like, well...maybe, maybe not. But I think we should wait and see. I think we might be getting a lot more goodies than what PS+ is right now.

All we have to do is see what comes with it, I have said in the past that I wouldn't want to pay for online play. This isn't just online play. I have even said that I would like Live on PSN and may have paid for it in certain situations. Well, this isn't like Live at all so.

Let's just wait and see what they give us, I already think there will be more benefits like gaikai but let's see what else.

Also, I think this is their way to segregate people at the door because if you think about it, if a developer wants to use gaikai/cloud features, they know that you can use it since you're online.

Well I wasn't stating that with the idea that discounts will be removed....and they won't be as confirmed at e3. But if you want people to know that PS+ offers such discounts when they don't have PS+....then they need to be able to be online and see the discount advantages on the ps store. Which would need to be free.

Also, I think this is their way to segregate people at the door because if you think about it, if a developer wants to use gaikai/cloud features, they know that you can use it since you're online.

Looks to me like a way to make people pay the subscription fee anyway so they can give less incentives. Just a hunch but don't be expecting instant game collection to be as good as on PS3. That goes without saying at the beginning obviously, but even after a few years...

Also I'm dubious about Gaikai. Have they said access to PS3 and PS4 games via Gaikai is part of PS+? sounds like a tiered approach to me.

Well I wasn't stating that with the idea that discounts will be removed....and they won't be as confirmed at e3. But if you want people to know that PS+ offers such discounts when they don't have PS+....then they need to be able to be online and see the discount advantages on the ps store. Which would need to be free.

I'm saying that they might just not offer discounts anymore. They will probably just try to sell through other points.

And if they still do offer discounts...it's possible that a silver-like sub might be available...which would make sense as those apps might require that. So you're probably right that it may still have a free service but probably just on media/apps.

Look i dont think either console should be pay to play online. that point 1.

Point 2.) it was you guys the PS3 fans that wanted to play to play online like MS has, cause it will give the psn a better service.
again You guys ask for this and told sony you wanted to pay to play online. to have cross game chat. so im not upset or mad at sony becuse you guy ask for it. So you got what you ask for, im more upset with the ps3fans asking for it then sony doing it.

with that being said i have PS+ and I like it so im good.

"religion will put a man on his knees science put a man on the moon, nuff said"by someone i dont know.

@lefein. I agree, if they have another pay wall for those things then I will be unhappy and might skip on PS4 altogether. If they package ALL features of PS4 with this PS+ sub and only charge for obvious things like BC games and such then i will be neutral about it.

@Levit. I never wanted x-game chat...not unless it were free. other than features, i don't see how Live was better...the connection were the same.

e.g. Vita has Live features and it's still free. They're not charging you for online play, yes it does cost them money but they want us to look at PS+ as a whole (with an enforcement that you can't play online) and take it as a package. The entire package is well worth the price and we still may not know of smaller features that they haven't shown us so far.

Overall, I think it's worth it, it will keep the community in tact, so if you have gaikai, you won't be like, "$#@! dude, get gaikai so we can do this together." in some ways it makes sense why they want to segregate.

Packaging it as a bundle makes the enforcement not so bad if you understand the overall scheme of things.

this way the experience online will be more consistent. So to think of it just as pay to play online sounds horrible, or to force just the PS+...but combined with a healthy amount of features and understanding consistency, it makes sense and I will pay for it.

You make a good point, a very good point.....but as non pc gamer all i can retort with is.............$#@! PC gaming!!!!

Originally Posted by Soldier 95B

Agreed!! $#@! PC GAMING!!

Once apon a time, I could understand that feeling. Consoles were plug and play while PCs required constant upgrades and patches. Consoles were played on the TV, and PC games were shoved wherever you could fit a PC monitor. Consoles had gamepads and PCs were almost exclusively keyboard and mouse controlled.

These days things have changed though.

You can now go years without needing an upgrade in PC gaming, and consoles require patches and updates. Both consoles and PCs can now be played on that big TV, both can use gamepads with similar if not identical controller layouts. Both play the exact same games.

In all honesty I could place a small gaming PC in an entertainment center as easily as a game console, hand you an Xbox 360 gamepad, and load up almost any popular multiplatform game and you wouldn't be able to tell if it was a console or PC that you were playing on.

Once apon a time, I could understand that feeling. Consoles were plug and play while PCs required constant upgrades and patches. Consoles were played on the TV, and PC games were shoved wherever you could fit a PC monitor. Consoles had gamepads and PCs were almost exclusively keyboard and mouse controlled.

These days things have changed though.

You can now go years without needing an upgrade in PC gaming, and consoles require patches and updates. Both consoles and PCs can now be played on that big TV, both can use gamepads with similar if not identical controller layouts. Both play the exact same games.

In all honesty, I could place a small gaming PC in an entertainment center as easily as a game consoles, hand you an Xbox 360 gamepad, and load up almost any popular multiplatform game and you wouldn't be able to tell if it was a console or PC that you were playing on.

There are things about consoles that people find attractive and that hasn't changed yet. Or we would see people flocking to the PC.

More importantly, developers want to make games for consoles first. PC might get lead but they're not making the game for PC. Their focus is consoles.

Yes, I have been a PC gamer for a while and still am. Problem is all my friends and family use consoles, less hassle etc. so I will be going console for release and then upgrade my PC a year or two later, see the ps4 will be using pretty good hardware comparable to what I can buy today.

Yes, I have been a PC gamer for a while and still am. Problem is all my friends and family use consoles, less hassle etc. so I will be going console for release and then upgrade my PC a year or two later, see the ps4 will be using pretty good hardware comparable to what I can buy today.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

and that's where PS4 is trying to sell itself to the hardcore gamers as well. Not everyone wants to keep up and they wouldn't buy the latest anyway. So PS4 sounds like an awesome deal.

That's 7GB worth of gaming assets in any game that they want it to have. You're not limited by dumbing down your game for multiple configs. Exactly like these cross-gen games that look like $#@! compared to actual next-gen games.

There are things about consoles that people find attractive and that hasn't changed yet. Or we would see people flocking to the PC.

Mostly it's simply familiarity and ignorance. People still prefer consoles because they are simply used to consoles. People still have the misconception that PC gaming is somehow more difficult or more expensive. Neither is actually true. In fact once you add in the cost of online for a few years plus the extra $10-$20 per game for the console versions the PC is actually cheaper.

You still have people posting right here in this thread who don't think you can game in the living room with the PC.

So many people simply prefer console gaming because of simple misbeliefs.

More importantly, developers want to make games for consoles first. PC might get lead but they're not making the game for PC. Their focus is consoles.

I use to game via pc many moons ago. Now i prefer the comfort of sofa gaming via consoles. Cost is a large part also, but in handing over 350.00, i know i will get my moneys worth out of it..long term.

PS+ offers something that can not be found anywhere else, and that is free games. You can argue that they are rented games but you get to keep them as long as you are still a PS+ subscriber.

I for one, don't really care about playing most games online, except for some of them. I hated the Idea that i have to pay to play online, but for me PS+ is a great service and it's not just there to play games online. I was one of the first people to subscribe to PS+ when they announced it and I'm still a subscriber and that won't change anytime soon.

Mostly it's simply familiarity and ignorance. People still prefer consoles because they are simply used to consoles. People still have the misconception that PC gaming is somehow more difficult or more expensive. Neither is actually true, but the perception is there.

I don't agree with that, there's a reason why they're "used" to it. It's easy with hardcore gamers like us but there are a lot of ignorant people out there that don't know how to run a browser. Thus why phone apps have gotten popular and why they're on PCs now.

DayZ says hi!

There are outliers there, of course. Just like Planet Side 2 wasn't coming to consoles either due to certain obvious reasons.

I see games on PC that are focused for PCs, that are only possible on PC.

If it wasn't for the announcement of Kingdom hearts I'd never have even considered wasting money on next gen. No longer being free though does put it in a spot for more criticism. Given how much profit this will bring in I would hope it's spent on games and not advertising just to bring in more profit for more advertising. I don't play consoles online either so eh.

if I am in the PS3 or 360 section I will NOT post about the competitor just to please people, if you want to know what I think about the competitor link me to a thread in the appropriate section

Still confused on this and a liitle let down. Is it definately a paytoplay online thing now or is it still vague?
Personally, I like the optional factor of psn+ on ps3 where you pay for more features with the multiplayer being free.
I dont care for free games a month etc, for me it was playing games online which is now behind a paywall?
I'll end up getting ps+ now but not out of interest for the bonuses of ps+, just to be able to play online (whats the pricing like yearly?)