In this podcast, Paul sits down with Fred Tyler, a gapper of 6 months in the gapper 2.0 program. Paul's goal is to give a clear picture of what it is like to be a gapper or ant, in order to make sure people know what they are getting into. A more detailed update of the Labs' developments and the ant village will be in part 2.

Paul begins by describing "Wheaton's Law of Reflective Douchebaggery", in which he points out that if you think someone is a douchebag, your world views are so totally different that the feeling is probably mutual. This applies especially to him personally.

Paul then reads an essay about how the words "science" and "engineering" have been co-opted by liars - how saying "this is proved by science" is used as a way of convincing people their word is fact. In addition, the scientific process itself has become suspicious because of shady funding practices. Fred can't prove him wrong.

Next, Paul makes clear that he will be a "jerk" to anyone trying to freeload on a paid permaculture event. Taking part in an event/food/class you have not paid for is unfair to those who have paid and to the organizers. So don't try it at any of Paul's events, and wear your name tag!

Finally Paul reflects on the strangeness of Reddit, the "man-cave of the internet", mentioning that when someone asked for gapper testimonies, and the most upvoted replies were from trollish speculation from people who had never been gappers.