I'm still having fun working on my living room gaming set up. To that end, I was wondering if I could get your opinion as between two TVs. I'm looking at the Vizio E43-F1 and the TCL 43S517. I have hard physical size limitations and can't fit anything larger than about 45" diagonal screen in my living room with our furniture. We have a Vizio now that's been a great performer for the last 5 years, but we also really like Roku for our streaming (we use a roku stick in the current Vizio). I know both of these options aren't on your guide, and I'm guessing they can't compete on outright image quality, but I was wondering if you could weigh in as between the two of them. Alternatively, if you have another suggestion for a 43" TV, I'm all ears.

I'm still having fun working on my living room gaming set up. To that end, I was wondering if I could get your opinion as between two TVs. I'm looking at the Vizio E43-F1 and the TCL 43S517. I have hard physical size limitations and can't fit anything larger than about 45" diagonal screen in my living room with our furniture. We have a Vizio now that's been a great performer for the last 5 years, but we also really like Roku for our streaming (we use a roku stick in the current Vizio). I know both of these options aren't on your guide, and I'm guessing they can't compete on outright image quality, but I was wondering if you could weigh in as between the two of them. Alternatively, if you have another suggestion for a 43" TV, I'm all ears.

Thanks!-Ben

Hey, Ben, thanks for checking in!

Here's the honest truth - TCL isn't on the list because I think its TVs are overrated. I did some work with a TV testing company earlier this year, and we had seven models on hand, including the TCL 55S4505, TCL's top-selling 2017 55" model. I was not impressed. The picture quality was quite bad, very dim with colors that were way off. The one benefit this had was that it used very little power compared to other TVs (because it had such poor backlighting).

Vizio, on the other hand, is doing amazing things at low prices. In the lab, we tested the Vizio M50 (which TBG reviewed here), and it was incredible for the price versus the competition. Very bright, excellent HDR, and a very nice built-in streaming system. I know that TCL's Roku is pretty slick, but in no way is it a big enough benefit to outweigh the fact that TCL makes bad TVs. The one strike against Vizio is that it uses more power than competing TVs, because it's much brighter.

And another thing to consider: TCL is a Chinese company, Vizio is the only American TV company. For some, that may be another plus for Vizio.

By the way, if you'd like to support the Forum, you can purchase the Vizio E43 from B&H Photo Video. Amazon does not sell Vizio due to a strategic partnership with TCL (which I think is a big mistake, as you could probably guess!).

While I'm mostly happy with my LGB7 OLED...that "black crush" or total pixelization of near blacks REALLY sucks...dark scenes in films and tv shows look terrible. It almost beggars belief...what is the point of inky blacks if dark scenes still look so bad.

If I wanted to switch out, would you recommend a QLED? Would that prevent the black crush (is that the technical term?), and how much of a step down would I notice from my LG?

While I'm mostly happy with my LGB7 OLED...that "black crush" or total pixelization of near blacks REALLY sucks...dark scenes in films and tv shows look terrible. It almost beggars belief...what is the point of inky blacks if dark scenes still look so bad.

If I wanted to switch out, would you recommend a QLED? Would that prevent the black crush (is that the technical term?), and how much of a step down would I notice from my LG?

Tekhed - this is a problem that has sadly been glossed over by the mainstream TV review sites (like CNET, Rtings, etc.), and it's very disappointing that they're letting LG get away with it. If you've read the 4K TV reviews on TBG, you'll see that the OLED is always used as the benchmark, but it doesn't always come out ahead for this very reason (and some awful motion handling as well). My favorite TV of 2018 is the Vizio Quantum. It has by far the best picture you'll find on any TV, but it does come with the drawback of Vizio's less-than-stellar user interface. If you can deal with drawback, honestly, it's awesome. Unfortunately, it's also impossible to buy, as Vizio is apparently having a bit of trouble actually getting these onto store shelves. A good fallback option is the Samsung Q9F. It has none of the crappy OLED black crush, and it has a very good user interface, but it's not quite as bright as the Vizio Quantum.

Well I don't even really use the tv interface for anything. It really is just a bigass monitor for my computer to plug into and I work, watch, stream, game etc. from that UI.

Although...hm...what have you heard about the BFGDs? Big Format Gaming Displays. I've heard there were going to be basically computer monitor quality displays available in 65" sizes. Yet haven't heard much since the announcement...?

Well I don't even really use the tv interface for anything. It really is just a bigass monitor for my computer to plug into and I work, watch, stream, game etc. from that UI.

Although...hm...what have you heard about the BFGDs? Big Format Gaming Displays. I've heard there were going to be basically computer monitor quality displays available in 65" sizes. Yet haven't heard much since the announcement...?

In this case, you should wait for the Vizio Quantum. It's perfect for you - it even has true 120Hz output (at 1080P - 4K is still limited to 60Hz). The BFGDs have been delayed and may never see the light of day. The latest rumors have the pricing at $4500-$5000, which I consider unmarketable. I was one of the first to report on BFGDs from the show floor at CES earlier this year, and they seemed like a bit of a non-starter then, when best guesses had them pegged at $3,500.

Bah, well I definitely want to be gaming in 4k...that's the point of my SDM! You don't think the BFGD will be able to pull off 4k/120 hz? Price is not necessarily an obstacle.

Looks like the Vizio is available for 2k at Best Buy. That's probably one to wait for a sale too.

Oh, sure, 4K is the goal, but 4K/120Hz is a pretty huge obstacle right now, as proven by the only 4K/120Hz-capable monitor on the market, the Acer X27. I honestly see a lot more potential for 32" models than 65" models in the coming year. I think the BFGDs were more of a thought experiment.

Nope. Nvidia actually didn't show it off at CES 2018 either. It just had a couple of partners show it off on the sidelines, most notably HP at Digital Experience, a separate Las Vegas show unaffiliated with CES. There were no BFGDs on the actual CES show floor.

That's an old article. Given no new news, you can be pretty sure it's delayed further. And Nvidia actually doesn't dedicate any floorspace at CES to gaming anymore. Its booth is huge, but it's in the automotive hall at CES, and AI is what Nvidia chooses to showcase.

I took this photo at CES earlier this year - didn't make it into TBG coverage for obvious reasons, but thought it was kind of funny:

With all that said, if BFGDs are at CES, I'll of course report on them.