The reason for my post was that JCM800s aren't really hailed for their clean tone, but for their crunch/drive tones. The only Marshall I've tried so far that had a good clean tone for me were the JVM series.

I don't know how much headroom you need, but maybe a Fender Twin, a VOX AC30 or a Hughes&Kettner smaller combo would be more up your alley? Maybe even a Roland JC-120 (though that's a solid-state amp)?

I'm a Marshall guy at heart; the cleans on the JCM800 suck. For overdrive, I'm convinced that it's one if the best sounds there is. But clean is not its forte'. It IS rather dynamic, so if you don't need pristine cleans, you can roll your guitar volume back to clean it up. But the JCM800 is a one trick pony for sure.

That being said, I own a vertical input 50 watter, a 5w clone I built, and another 2204 that I'm building... Because it's one hell if a trick!

My main amp is a JMP 2204 which is kind of an early model of the JCM800. There really aren't cleans. Even using the low-sensitivity input with a single-coil guitar and the gain set low, I can get a bit of hair if I hit the strings too hard.

Do the early JCM 800s that you're talking about have 3 gain stages and a cathode follower?

I think so. IIRC mine has 3 12AX7's. One is the phase inverter, leaving 2 tubes/4 triodes which would be 3 gain stages and the cathode follower. The low sensitivity input skips the first gain stage and only uses 2.

I'm a Marshall guy at heart; the cleans on the JCM800 suck. For overdrive, I'm convinced that it's one if the best sounds there is. But clean is not its forte'. It IS rather dynamic, so if you don't need pristine cleans, you can roll your guitar volume back to clean it up. But the JCM800 is a one trick pony for sure.

That being said, I own a vertical input 50 watter, a 5w clone I built, and another 2204 that I'm building... Because it's one hell if a trick!

I'm curious about this as well as I have not played through an older JCM 800.

Do the early JCM 800s that you're talking about have 3 gain stages and a cathode follower?

Yes and no

The high input has 3 gain stages and the low input 2. The gain control for the 2203 (master volume version) is before the second stage which. The low input is injected at that point. The non master volume versions are almost the same too.

I haven't played my 800 for a while, but my recollection is that the clean sound is decent. If you run the gain at say 2 and the master where you want there are loads of clean, it's a 100 watt amp.

I think where the bad rep comes from is that is that if you compare it to a Fender twin it doesn't sound nearly as "beautiful", but that doesn't make it all bad. You can only have it set for clean or classic Marshall drive. Given a choice who wouldn't crank it for about the best rock and roll tone ever.

A friend of mine was using a 50 watt 2x12 JCM combo I used to own until quite recently for gigs. He plays a Tele and his band do a lot of country and other 50's covers. Sounded pretty good on stage to me.

I've a JMP 2203 and a 2203KK (that I've modded a fair bit). Both are capable of clean sounds. The JMP reaches clean quicker than the KK, as you dial down the gain pot. The best you're going to get is that Hendrix ballad sort of sound. The high end can be a bit spiky with the gain pot down.

The music I grew up on in the 80s used a lot of JCM 800s. There's just a connection there that will last with me until I die. I finally got one, so to speak, when Rob from Jaded Faith mods create a JCM 800 module for my RM4 preamp. I have been and am still in love with it, which is amazing for a tone snob like myself. If I want cleans, I simply roll back the volume on the guitar as well as the gain and volume on the preamp. And the crunch is off the chain beautiful as everybody knows. The lead is surprisingly making me continually smile - even without pedals in front of it. My custom power amp has a Marshall OT although the rest of it is very Mesa-based, to include a spongy setting which I use all of the time.

Not sure if it's cause I'm getting old or what, but I don't use the terms better so much any more. I'm not gonna say the JCM 800 is better than any Mesas that I've played. The JCM 800 does not have the gain stages that my Studio Pre had but it's all good. It's so much fun to play. If you have never played one, you owe it to yourself to check it out, even if you are a Mesahaulic.