For it clear deception(in Christian way) and designed to deceive people and manipulate them.

I mean, why do you think they are trying to deceive people? [/quote]

What you think, why snake deceive Eva? And Eva than deceive Adam?

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What is manipulative about diagnosing someone with autism?

What you think, why snake deceive Eva? And Eva than deceive Adam?

For there is no such illness as “Autism” exists.

People make it up.

If some one call something by name what even not exist – it is call deception and if it came from official level it is call fraud.

You may call me goblin, hobit, avatar… but it is not mean I would belong to one of this fairytale fantasy … Americans call as aliens.

If from moment child born some one enforced to perceive unreal world (fairytale story), so after that child became adult he/she would with no difficulty to create own imaginable world fool of lie, get “medical degree” and make up unreal illness and make business.

It is work same way people create areal religions. But it is another story.

By the way I would assume western psychology is not medicine.It is religion mixt with pharmacology.

I may be reading you wrongly, but this makes no sense. First you have said that there are 30-50% of correct diagnoses, now you say the condition being diagnosed does not exist? Which is it?

It what I wrote…..:

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50-70% of kids clamed “ADD” and “ADHD“ are undisciplined kids, for care givers and school not care for. 20-30% of ADD/ADHD kids are pure “cholerics” for it is type of them nerve system react on irritation. I presume some “melancholics” couldbe on this list to, but I can’t tell for sure with out proper research.

May be I was to rush and not express myself clear but I mean next:

High percentage of those who was clamed as disorder (ADD or ADHD), not ill but simply kids who not get disciplined. modern school not wecome disciplining kids, and modern society screw educational programmes.

If around child was created wrong and false environment (wrong environment what is now promoted every where in world as healthy one) – as result, kids develop sort of animal behaviour with is easy fit in ADD and ADHD set criteria. Specially it would effects “holerics” and “melancholic” .

It is same as some on make “cant run disorder”….. I cant run for I have injured leg.I cant run for I have head ache….I cant run for I do not will obey your orderI cant run for I lazyI cant run for my liver in painI cant run for I not see point of it

But for some one it would be “cant run disorder” for it suit to his project well.

I have see a lot of absolutely normal kids, who was diagnosed ADD for simple reason they are “choleric” by nature. so, Other percentage who named ill - are “holerics” – which is way nerve system naturally work but is have no thing to do with disorder.

So what way them got treated ? drug abuse….It same as we would make muscles transplant to turn sprinter into marathon. Same as some good for sprinting (white fibra) and other for marathon – (red fibre). Is it illness?

No, that's not what I meant, sorry. I mean: what makes you think it is a deception? What evidence are you basing this on? It's very possible there is no one illness 'autism' that is the same in all people diagnosed with it - but the doctors agree with you on this! They too believe that what is identified as 'autism' is a spectrum disorder and clearly has more than one genetic predictor (unlike, say, Downs). But that doesn't mean the symptoms are less real, does it? Surely if a diagnosis and autism-specific advice helps someone like Asteriktos on this board, it is useful? I am sure that if he had found simply 'disciplining' his child more worked, he would have done that! And it would have been much cheaper and easier for him and for the government, so I don't think you can say autism is something people make up for financial reasons.

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By the way I would assume western psychology is not medicine.It is religion mixt with pharmacology.

What leads you to that conclusion? I agree that plenty of psychologists wouldn't see themselves primarily as medics (in fact, certainly here in the UK, many psychologists didn't train in medicine). But religion and pharmacology? How so?

No, that's not what I meant, sorry. I mean: what makes you think it is a deception? What evidence are you basing this on?

We all have mental disorder form Adam.

And it what Christianity is about. Realise it and search for God.

1. Western psychology is deception for it presenting world in twisted format. 2. Western psychology deception for it not based on neuro-physiology 3. Western psychology based on personal believe and have not cleat standards.4. Western psychology try to just fit man in designed standards of social life them “believe” as “normal”.5. them call it "normal" as it serve to government programme.

Man (Eugen Bleuler) who fist use word autism say about psychology:

Psychological diagnosis it self not mean disorder. One or other psychologist, only by own will create not only name for it, but develop whole concepts (systems) depending on what kind of symptom (description) most important and crucial from his personal point of view.

So, western psychology create and develop enormous number of concepts and believe them are so great and good. Babylon tower.

It is may lead to new way of discrimination and terror if needed. For all this diagnosis penetrating in governmental structure and law. So it deadly corrupt and no way we can change it.

There is plenty of evidence in human history about what people with power can do and what way them use “psychology” to achieve own target.

Yes, I see what you're saying. It just seems very tough that some people have so much more to struggle with than others - but you're right, and I think this is a much more humane way to look at autism than to talk of possession. But I don't see why you think that searching for God, and recongizing that we are all fallen, is incompatible with modern psychology? If something a psychologist says helps an autistic person or their parents/carers to cope with some of their struggles, surely that is a good thing?

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1. Western psychology is deception for it presenting world in twisted format. 2. Western psychology deception for it not based on neuro-physiology

How do you man? Could you give me examples please? (I am not myself a psychologist, so perhaps don't understand.

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3. Western psychology based on personal believe and have not cleat standards.

I agree there's some element of personal opinion, but why is that a bad thing? Why expect thousands of people to draw exactly the same conclusions?

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4. Western psychology try to just fit man in designed standards of social life them “believe” as “normal”.5. them call it "normal" as it serve to government programme.

Such as? The government surely would prefer, if it could, to say autism doesn't exist either!

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Man (Eugen Bleuler) who fist use word autism say about psychology:

Psychological diagnosis it self not mean disorder. One or other psychologist, only by own will create not only name for it, but develop whole concepts (systems) depending on what kind of symptom (description) most important and crucial from his personal point of view.

So, western psychology create and develop enormous number of concepts and believe them are so great and good. Babylon tower.

I am not sure you are understanding the quotation correctly? The quotation you give is a warning to psychologists to do precisely what you objected to above - to be sceptical and to remember that there are no absolute relations between diagnosis and actual condition.

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It is may lead to new way of discrimination and terror if needed. For all this diagnosis penetrating in governmental structure and law. So it deadly corrupt and no way we can change it.

There is plenty of evidence in human history about what people with power can do and what way them use “psychology” to achieve own target.

Can you give me examples? I'm sure you are right but I'm struggling to think of anything specific to autism in this context.

symptoms of autism are unreasonable, and lot of them in Christianity respect as achievement and natural human state.

What do you mean by 'unreasonable'? By the way, Autism is a natural human state, too.

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I do respect there is some neurological illness but neurology is not psychology.

Normally neurological disease well spotted on 0 -3 months.

No, it isn't! Just off the top of my head, I can tell you that hearing loss caused by brain damage is virtually impossible to diagnose at that age (my friend's daughter has it).

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Any future disorder most luckily is resolute of neglect and luck of good care, education and discipline.

I think that is a very offensive statement to make when some people on this thread have told you they or their families have this disorder. Are you really suggesting it is their fault?

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And most important is we are not “social animals”, we are image of God. But western psychology ignoring it for it not familiar with Christianity nor wish to learn it.

I did not say we were social animals. I think though that we are social creatures - we are all part of the Body of Christ. I don't really understand why the distinction you make is important in terms of psychology?

And most important is we are not “social animals”, we are image of God. But western psychology ignoring it for it not familiar with Christianity nor wish to learn it.

I did not say we were social animals. I think though that we are social creatures - we are all part of the Body of Christ. I don't really understand why the distinction you make is important in terms of psychology?

I not say you say it. It is what western psychology respect human for. There is not place for God in there. western psychology have place only for personal psychologist, psychiatrists and western psychotherapists believes.

And most important is we are not “social animals”, we are image of God. But western psychology ignoring it for it not familiar with Christianity nor wish to learn it.

I did not say we were social animals. I think though that we are social creatures - we are all part of the Body of Christ. I don't really understand why the distinction you make is important in terms of psychology?

I not say you say it. It is what western psychology respect human for. There is not place for God in there. western psychology have place only for personal psychologist, psychiatrists and western psychotherapists believes.

I think there is plenty of room for God in psychology. Why not? It is the same with other kinds of medicine. For example, when my granny was ill, her GP spoke to us about the options for pain relief and told us how best to manage her symptoms, and he explained the physical processes of her illness. But when she died, he came to her funeral in our church and prayed with us. He is both a doctor and a Christian, there is no contradiction.

And most important is we are not “social animals”, we are image of God. But western psychology ignoring it for it not familiar with Christianity nor wish to learn it.

I did not say we were social animals. I think though that we are social creatures - we are all part of the Body of Christ. I don't really understand why the distinction you make is important in terms of psychology?

I not say you say it. It is what western psychology respect human for. There is not place for God in there. western psychology have place only for personal psychologist, psychiatrists and western psychotherapists believes.

I think there is plenty of room for God in psychology. Why not? It is the same with other kinds of medicine. For example, when my granny was ill, her GP spoke to us about the options for pain relief and told us how best to manage her symptoms, and he explained the physical processes of her illness. But when she died, he came to her funeral in our church and prayed with us. He is both a doctor and a Christian, there is no contradiction.

Your example with GP , nanny and funeral is nothing to do with God nor religion.

It is not place to discuss it but people mix up they ethnicity and life style with Christianity than we got such name as “Anglicans”, “Greek orthodox”, “Russian church abroad”, “Armenians”, “Patriarchate of Ukraine”, “Copts” etc. Nazi with cross, bible and ancient roots. For if it not part of ecclesia it easy to change to make it work for “government” in way government need it to brain wash society.

People turns Christianity into paganism and form of self-esteem. And now try to enforce law over way we think and perceive the world by creating unreal disorder and mental illnesses.

I think there is plenty of room for God in psychology. Why not? It is the same with other kinds of medicine. For example, when my granny was ill, her GP spoke to us about the options for pain relief and told us how best to manage her symptoms, and he explained the physical processes of her illness. But when she died, he came to her funeral in our church and prayed with us. He is both a doctor and a Christian, there is no contradiction.

Your example with GP , nanny and funeral is nothing to do with God nor religion.

You think, they believe…..

I'm sorry, I do not understand your reply at all. I've just told you an anecdote about faith and how it is not incompatible with being a medic. You reply that faith is nothing to do with God or religion?

It is not place to discuss it but people mix up they ethnicity and life style with Christianity than we got such name as “Anglicans”, “Greek orthodox”, “Russian church abroad”, “Armenians”, “Patriarchate of Ukraine”, “Copts” etc. Nazi with cross, bible and ancient roots. For if it not part of ecclesia it easy to change to make it work for “government” in way government need it to brain wash society.

People turns Christianity into paganism and form of self-esteem. And now try to enforce law over way we think and perceive the world by creating unreal disorder and mental illnesses.

You are probably right this is not the place to discuss this - not least because, to me I'm afraid I can't understand this post either on its own merits or in the context of this thread.

You still refer to 'unreal' illnesses when others who are more familiar have tried to explain about autism, and yet you provide no evidence for your point of view. This is not a sensible way to argue, I think.

I work for a non-profit agency that provides human services--in our area, we mostly have children diagnosed with autism.

I understand what Alive is saying, that many "illnesses" of this world are tied to our spiritual illness. However, illness and disease of the body is a truly and real consequence of our fallen world. Mental illness and neural disorders are certainly real as our brains and brain chemistry can be just as diseased as our lungs or livers.

I worked with a child who has pervasive disorders, for no discernible reason. Another child has diagnoses that are probably due to maternal abuses of drugs and alcohol. They both received services under the diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder. In the end, I really care what the paperwork says, as long as they are receiving the services that are most beneficial for them and their health.

That said, autism spectrum is certainly a real diagnosis (just maybe not applicable to those two.) Who knows what is causing it--from environmental contaminants that we are all exposed to in our modern society, to genetic triggers stemming from any number of possible causes. Most of the time, the "treatment" these kids get is different/better educational approaches, counseling, and assistance from those who are there to remind them how to stay on task and how to act "normally" in social situations (like me.) It's certainly not a disservice, and it's not always chemical or with drugs (though there are DEFINITELY kids whom are helped by affecting incorrect brain chemistry). It seems silly to continue to argue the opposite with someone who has never spent any time around someone with a diagnosis of autism--they have no idea what they are talking about.

It is not place to discuss it but people mix up they ethnicity and life style with Christianity than we got such name as “Anglicans”, “Greek orthodox”, “Russian church abroad”, “Armenians”, “Patriarchate of Ukraine”, “Copts” etc. Nazi with cross, bible and ancient roots. For if it not part of ecclesia it easy to change to make it work for “government” in way government need it to brain wash society.

People turns Christianity into paganism and form of self-esteem. And now try to enforce law over way we think and perceive the world by creating unreal disorder and mental illnesses.

You are probably right this is not the place to discuss this - not least because, to me I'm afraid I can't understand this post either on its own merits or in the context of this thread.

You still refer to 'unreal' illnesses when others who are more familiar have tried to explain about autism, and yet you provide no evidence for your point of view. This is not a sensible way to argue, I think.

Are you sure you wish to see true?

Eugen Bleuler, man who fist use word autism say about psychology:

Psychological diagnosis it self not mean disorder. One or other psychologist, only by own will create not only name for it, but develop whole concepts (systems) depending on what kind of symptom (description) most important and crucial from his personal point of view.

He also make recommendation about “mentally ill” should have no posterity.

In 1933 “sterilization” law apply to 56,000 , by 1939 half of mil.

And of course you never heard about T-4 programme?

Diagnoses was fabricate people get “processed”.

Modern western psychology child of this programme and people who lead them.

And I not worry any more it may accrue again. It is already in work: ADD, ADHD, Autism, etc….

But it is not main point. Point is western psychology is madness in God Eyes.

You cant understand it for you not Christian nor specialised in this field.

If you truly search for God than we may have dialog, if not we just wasting each other time.

Thanks for posting this. I was beginning to wonder why no-one else wanted to correct the picture Alive is giving, particularly since s/he seemed to be pretending there was some Orthodox sanction for this view.

Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd. I think I have been patient on this thread, and repeatedly attributed your frankly stupid posts to a language difficulty and my own misunderstanding. Do you not see that your incredible arrogance in this matter has no basis either in science or in Christianity - as the beautiful quotation about the value of medics above the thread can prove far better than I. I was a fool to have tried.

Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd.

You may call yourself any name you wish. I doubt you know what is about specially if you stating that western psychology have room for God - that is absurd.

But why andhow is it absurd? You display no knowledge of modern psychology, and you ignore Orthodox people on this forum who explain to you how they have found the tools of Western psychology helpful in their care of children. Yet you still expect us all too believe you on no evidence and no logical argument - why?

Honest question: do you realize that you seldom reply to the questions we have asked? I cannot tell if this is to do with your poor command of English, or because you know you have no arguments to make.

Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd.

You may call yourself any name you wish. I doubt you know what is about specially if you stating that western psychology have room for God - that is absurd.

But why andhow is it absurd? You display no knowledge of modern psychology, and you ignore Orthodox people on this forum who explain to you how they have found the tools of Western psychology helpful in their care of children. Yet you still expect us all too believe you on no evidence and no logical argument - why?

Honest question: do you realize that you seldom reply to the questions we have asked? I cannot tell if this is to do with your poor command of English, or because you know you have no arguments to make.

Basic evidence was provided, you refuse to see them – it is pure your fall. Autism? ADD? ADHD? Diagnose your self by your own set criteria.

My diagnose: you present evidence that you not familia with Christianity(or pretend), and not capable(or not wish) for basic analysis.

Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd.

You may call yourself any name you wish. I doubt you know what is about specially if you stating that western psychology have room for God - that is absurd.

But why andhow is it absurd? You display no knowledge of modern psychology, and you ignore Orthodox people on this forum who explain to you how they have found the tools of Western psychology helpful in their care of children. Yet you still expect us all too believe you on no evidence and no logical argument - why?

Honest question: do you realize that you seldom reply to the questions we have asked? I cannot tell if this is to do with your poor command of English, or because you know you have no arguments to make.

Basic evidence was provided, you refuse to see them – it is pure your fall. Autism? ADD? ADHD? Diagnose your self by your own set criteria.

My diagnose: you present evidence that you not familia with Christianity(or pretend), and not capable(or not wish) for basic analysis.

Possibly some one well brainwash you. Sorry.

Ok. In English, 'evidence' is not a synonym for 'repeatedly-stated but groundless opinions and a side serving of rudeness'. Please: learn to communicate properly, read the Bible, go to your priest for basic advice. You will be able to get help and learn how to discuss these issues, but right now, you are not making any sense.

I skipped a whole lot of posts since my last post... But I just wanted to tell you that it's probably not worth your time to try and teach someone who is not willing to learn. If s/he does not believe in autism, ADD, or ADHD and thinks psychologists are useless, then so be it. I'm sure one day that God will teach him/her that this is as real as it gets and that medical professionals (and I use this term to refer to psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, etc.) play a major role is helping in the development of these children. I admire you for trying, though.

Thanks for posting this. I was beginning to wonder why no-one else wanted to correct the picture Alive is giving, particularly since s/he seemed to be pretending there was some Orthodox sanction for this view.

Alive is entitled to express her coherent opinion on Autism; however, she has (deliberately?) poorly communicated her opinion and tries to hide her opinion behind some pseudo-Christian authority masquerading itself as Orthodox Christianity.

Alive, I am a Christian. To attack me on the grounds that I am not a Christian and not a psychologist is totally absurd. I think I have been patient on this thread, and repeatedly attributed your frankly stupid posts to a language difficulty and my own misunderstanding. Do you not see that your incredible arrogance in this matter has no basis either in science or in Christianity - as the beautiful quotation about the value of medics above the thread can prove far better than I. I was a fool to have tried.

It is not matter of “believe” but basic knowledge (which you ignore) any intelligent enough person (who get no brain washed) will easy recognise those deceptions.

Western psychology pseudo science used to deceive people and brain wash society by sophisticated and dishonest presentation. Most western psychologists are ignorant and uneducated(pseudo educated) speculates.

ADD, ADHD, Autism etc – pure pseudo diagnosis and speculation. There are real problem in those cases, but way it named, identify and presented are fraud.

Possibly it is biggest social fraud of 20-21 century. But people like you get well brain washed and need no God nor capeble to persiv reality way it is nor capable to perceive reality way it is.

Sorry... I didn't know asking for prayers meant asking for a magic trick. I'm not sure how that was misinterpreted or how you'd like me to respond. If I am worthy of being mentioned in your prayers, then I appreciate it. If I'm asking too much, just ignore my request. It's all good.

Sorry... I didn't know asking for prayers meant asking for a magic trick. I'm not sure how that was misinterpreted or how you'd like me to respond. If I am worthy of being mentioned in your prayers, then I appreciate it. If I'm asking too much, just ignore my request. It's all good.

Pray for me,Faith.

I have no idea what pray means for you.

But it is not hard for me to wish "God elaison me and fath and i will we may understent each other and speak same in one heart. " Amin. actually it is what I try to achieve any way.

"as [you've] informed us that respect chills love, it is natural to conclude that all your pretty flights arise from your pampered sensibility; and that, vain of this fancied preeminence of organs, you foster every emotion till the fumes, mounting to your brain, dispel the sober suggestions of reason. It is not in this view surprising that when you should argue you become impassioned, and that reflection inflames your imagination instead of enlightening your understanding." - Mary Wollstonecraft

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.Is autism a form of demonic posession?

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed.

You should wrote “I think, that I am not possessed.

I am not autist and possesed. so all not autist are possessed?

One more time recap on my statement:1. there is not such “disease” as autism in reality. 2. Autism is artificial criteria used by some “professionals” in corrupt medical system on wide range of deferent some times totally unrelated abnormalities, which some times is not dysfunction , to make money and justify salary.3. If some possessed people was claim as “autist” , not mean that all people who was claimed as “autist” are possessed.

"as [you've] informed us that respect chills love, it is natural to conclude that all your pretty flights arise from your pampered sensibility; and that, vain of this fancied preeminence of organs, you foster every emotion till the fumes, mounting to your brain, dispel the sober suggestions of reason. It is not in this view surprising that when you should argue you become impassioned, and that reflection inflames your imagination instead of enlightening your understanding." - Mary Wollstonecraft

Since my daughter was PDD-NOS, maybe that means that she just has a minor demon or something?

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"as [you've] informed us that respect chills love, it is natural to conclude that all your pretty flights arise from your pampered sensibility; and that, vain of this fancied preeminence of organs, you foster every emotion till the fumes, mounting to your brain, dispel the sober suggestions of reason. It is not in this view surprising that when you should argue you become impassioned, and that reflection inflames your imagination instead of enlightening your understanding." - Mary Wollstonecraft

Autistics' brains are not wired normally.Is autism a form of demonic posession?

I have aspergers which is a form of autism. I am not possessed.

You should wrote “I think, that I am not possessed.

I am not autist and possesed. so all not autist are possessed?

One more time recap on my statement:1. there is not such “disease” as autism in reality. 2. Autism is artificial criteria used by some “professionals” in corrupt medical system on wide range of deferent some times totally unrelated abnormalities, which some times is not dysfunction , to make money and justify salary.3. If some possessed people was claim as “autist” , not mean that all people who was claimed as “autist” are possessed.

Autism is real. One can be "normal" and be possessed. One can have autism and be possessed. However, there is a difference between a disability and demonic possession. Either autism is a real condition or it's demonization. It can't be a fake condition that afflicts the possessed and non-possessed.