I was rumaging in Rye, Sussex, this morning, and was reminded of this thread when I saw a glass bowler/top hat, which seemed cheap at £3., so I invested heavily in what I'm hoping is an antique. Description reads............

Pale bottle green, with one large and some much smaller bubbles - one white seed and a number of very small black ones.Glass is quite thick and pontil has been snapped, with dirt and discolouration around the sharp edges as to be expected from period snapped pontils. The hat has spent some of its life sitting inverted (used as a bowl/jar or whatever??), but the underside of the brim shows quite massive wear as per the pic - on the front and rear ends, with virtually none on the sides. Height is c. 3.5" and 5" back to front.This is nothing like the posh hat frigger showing in Hajdamach, and my only book specifically on C18 and C19 coloured glass is a volume from 'The Collector's World in Colour' by Davis & Middlemas - which unfortunately doesn't show any hat friggers. However, the colour of this hat seems an exact match with what was a common colour of Victorian 'door stops/dumps' showing in the book - so I'm inclined towards thinking this hat is from a Midlands factory c. 1870.The snapped pontil can be a confusing feature - I thought for some time that it was found only on first half C18 glass, but now know that it is occurs not uncommonly on some second half C19 pieces - especially, for example, on what are known as the 'thumb print' ale glasses, which are known to have been made around 1860 - 1880.If the Mods wish to shove this on a new thread, no problem - it just seemed relevant to make a comparison perhaps with the other hat here. Must admit I did think that Mike's hat looked rather like a 'stetson' - and I wonder if the maker would have put the rim on one side only?Of course, if I'm off the wall and mine was made in China last year, then I've wasted £3, but please be gentle.

Really sorry I havn't replied earlier , I havn't looked at GMB for a few days.

I did own a hat of the same colour once , it was a little taller and had the same matt band to the underside of the rim (which wasn't folded as in this case) . The pontil scar was snapped off and wasn't heat treated so much as this one. This other hat had been bought by the previous owner from an auctioneers in Bristol (he still had the reciept) and they had described it as either from Nailsea or Bristol. This is the basis of my assumption about this one . Plus the fact that is was bought in a charity shop in Bristol.

There is a really good book on 'Nailsea glass' the same as the title written by Keith Vincent published by David & Charles. In the book there is a photo of a hat display at Clevedon Court (between Nailsea and Clevedon) . I've taken a couple of photos of the photos in the book !

The greens ranged from pale bottle green through to dark green (plain).

I do need to do some more research here and I will be taking the hat to Clevedon Court to have a look at their collection.

I would like to add that I think (based on the previous hat I once owned ) it is highly likely that this hat in question is from Bristol /Nailsea . It certainly has an age to it .

Yours Paul could well be a pale bottle green example from Nailsea....but I'm no expert !!

Gerdayyy John , you just threw a shrimp on the bar-by and fanned the flames with a hat mate

The good thing about my example is the half folded rim.....someone wishing to copy this style of Nailsea/Bristol hat and produce a re-pro. wouldn't fold the rim half way around. That's why I feel it's a genuine example of the period and this region yeeer in Bris'ol

thanks for the information Mike - very interesting - obviously another book I need to buy I've never found or bought any of what we might call real friggers - just don't seem to see them the places I go, but they're a whole world of interest on their own it seems. I was making the 'Midlands' suggestion for my hat, based on the colour of the door stops/dumps which were shown in my book, together with date, although you may well be correct in saying Nailsea. Personally, I think jp was justified in making his original comments - in effect what many of the books tend say about friggers i.e. that those pieces with the blobbed/flecked and stripey sorts of colouring are thought more likely to be Nailsea, whereas those of a flint or very pale colour are thought to be less likely from that factory. Dare say I'd have said something similar. Remarkable that when buying your hat it should still have with it the original auction house receipt with their Nailsea provenance - it obviously meant a great deal to someone.Smaller auction houses would probably admit they can't be accurate with everything, and it's perfectly understandable that in a general sale pieces such as our hats should be described as Nailsea, since that would be the assumption made by most people. Also true to say that glass travels..........the amount of mainland Europe pieces that can be found in local British boot sales for example, is amazing - it's possible mine may well have started life many hundreds of miles away from Rye - also perhaps yours from Bristol.

Are there any stones/seeds in your hat Mike?

I will try to email copies of my example as you suggest, and let you know what they say - and thanks again for the links, and trust you will let us have the results of your research after Clevedon Court have seen your hat.

P.S. Never been to Clevedon Court - NT membership now lapsed - but did do Tyntesfield once ............which if you like Victoriana, is an absolute must - a fortune built on seagull crap, apparently .

Yes this hat does have four little darkish seeds in it. I think it might be bottle glass...suggesting Bristol rather than Nailsea (It was the previous hat I owned which had the auction chitty not this one !)

The Nailsea hats like yours on display at Clevedon Court were made of pale green window glass and in Keith Vincent's book mentioned above he describes the glass like this......"The pale green (window glass from Nailsea) is not one uniform tint, but varies from a pale emerald green to a yellowish green to a bluish green (perhaps yours Paul) , and the actual intensity of the colour depends on the thickness of the metal and varies even in a single piece'

It's worth emailing Clevedon Court as they were very helpful with a couple of pots I had which I thought might be Eltonware. They are very interested to see examples of Eltonware and possible Nailsea glass !

I will let you know how I get on ....the problem is getting there as it's not often open and you have to make an appointment to look inside . Cheers Mike.