Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:15 am Post subject: Trying to get job in tokyo with Canadian college diploma

Hi I am currently attending college in Canada and I will be graduating next year. So issue I'm facing right now is that most of the Asian countries requires University Degree not a college diploma... which I think it's BS. I know it's difficult but I would like to get a teaching job in Japan specifically in tokyo. I have TESOL/TEFL certificate and I'm going to get TOEFL (don't know if it will help or not). Is there any other programs that I can apply? I know AEON but I'm hearing lot of crap about them. PLEASE help! I'm really desperate

If it's a 4-year program (BA/BS), you will be fine with a diploma. If it's an AA or some other certificate, you will have trouble. Not sure if you would qualify for a working holiday visa, but it is another way to get in the country.

My program is only 3 years and it's just a diploma. I don't know if its BA/BS I will have to check that, but is there any programs that I can apply? that is the part I'm struggling with... I contacted couple agencies but they say I will not get a job since I don't have university degree

Might be better to look elsewhere. Japan is quite strict with the university degree for work visa requirement. I don't know about Korea, Hong Kong or Taiwan... Other countries in Asia might be more flexible.

Basically, you need to have a degree to work in Japan (unless you arrive married to a Japanese citizen and can get a spousal visa, or you have a lot of experience in your area and can get accepted based on that).

Maybe your TESOL certificate provider told you otherwise. If they did, they meant you could get a 'working holiday visa'.

Rather than trying to find a quick fix to get around Japan's visa requirements, your goal should be to find a way in your education system to obtain what Japan requires if your goal is really to work in Japan. Japan's visa requirements are not "BS" BTW. Countries peg requirements based on their own culture and system. Most people serving coffee at Starbucks these days in some parts of Canada have an undergraduate degree. Do you really think the requirements to sling coffee in Toronto should be set higher than teaching? The term 'college' means different things in different cultures (you may have noticed people from the US asking if it's a BA and 4 year. That's because 'college' means 'undergrad level of university' to many Americans). Think about the other people applying for jobs in Tokyo. They have degrees, and may have been living in Japan for quite some time. They may speak Japanese. They may have contacts already. Why WOULD someone hire you? (and you basically need to get a job before you can get a visa. Employers don't want to risk hiring person A from abroad who has no degree - because that would be like walking into a 7/11 in Japan and recruiting whoever is standing there to be a Japanese teacher- when they have a stack of people who actually have the qualification. In fact, there are people in Tokyo who have graduate degrees doing entry-level ALT jobs because of the competition).

Have you looked into getting an 'applied degree' from your college, or transferring to another college that has one? (Maybe this only applies to colleges in Ontario. Even if it does only apply to Ontario, can you transfer credits from your college in BC [or wherever you are] to a college in Ontario from which you can get a degree?)

A college is much more likely to accept prior college credits at face value. If you end up having to go to a "university", then be prepared for your three-year college diploma to count for less than a year of your three or four year degree.

In Ontario, you can do a TESL Certificate as a one-year postgraduate certificate at either a college or a university. Even at the college level, (for most, if not all of them) the entry requirement is a university degree. That's because that is the bare minimum to work as an ESL teacher in Ontario, and it's the bare minimum to work overseas as an EFL teacher. So your goal needs to be to get an undergrad degree if you are thinking of doing this as a career. Your best bet is to see what options you have from the college level because if you need to go to the university level, then you may well find that your credits aren't considered to be theoretical enough.

Isnt there a difference between these two?
TESOL being the US version where TESL is the standard for both home and abroad.
Aren't you needing a Degree to have your certificate recognized?
What are the real differences between a TESL cert that you can get in a month online vs the college versions that are a year long costing 1000's?
This is based on the Canadian versions just to clarify.
Maybe a difference between provinces. Quoting colleges in Ontario and Alberta

Sure, there are differences between a month online and a full-time academic year in-class.

TESOL means Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages. It means that throughout the world. It refers to both contexts:

TESL (Teaching English as a Second Language): Teaching English in an English medium context (and English majority speaking country like the US, Canada, Australia, UK etc)

TEFL (Teaching English as a Foreign Language): Teaching English in a nonEnglish medium context (like a non-Engish-speaking country like Japan, Korea, Saudi Arabia, Mexico etc)

The real differences between a month online and an academic year in terms of programs:

A year-long program is like the one-year B.Ed (when it was one-year and not two). (You need an undergrad degree t get in, and usually (almost always?) it needs to be an undergraduate degree that is in a language-area [English is very common. So is French or a foreign language. Probably a lot of Linguistics undergrads do them, too.]) though other humanities areas aren't uncommon, I think (you'd get turned down if you applied with an engineering degree, though, probably). You do classes in many areas of language teaching taught by people who are specialists in that field. You have an extensive practicum in which you are told what you do well and what you need work on. You work with real students. You observe and often act as a teacher's aid in university or college programs (the goal most people in these programs is to become a tertiary level ESL instructor, and if you want even a chance at that, then one term of your two terms of practicum should really be at the university / college where you are doing the program). You are able to teach in LINC (Language Instruction for Newcomers to Canada) programs in Ontario (for language teaching in Ontario, like saying you have an Ontario College of Teachers license, except for to teach adults and ESL instead of, for example, history to high school students). If you already have a masters degree in another discipline (ANY discipline) then you have the requirement to teach ESL at a university after you graduate with a TESL certificate from a university or Ontario college, and some people do exactly that. Others finish the one-year certificate in TESL and go directly to the masters without the usual 'three years of experience teaching overseas' because they already have that when they arrive to do the one-year teaching TESL certificate. Then they often go directly from the masters to teaching ESL at that university. It's professional training to become a professional teacher (a "big person's " job) but is usually the first step- you usually go on from that kind of program to either a masters in Applied Linguistics in Ontario and then teach at the university level, or you use it to try to get into a postgraduate bachelor of education (now two year program) because the percentage of people who apply to who gets in is very low and so people do that type of program to increase their 'experience' profile, which is often seen as the key to getting into a program.

A month online will, if you are lucky, get you through the section of an application to a language school or ALT position in Korea or Japan where you put a check next to the box "has a TESOL certificate". That's it. It has no bearing on whether the candidate meets visa requirements like having a degree. A one-month online program is something from which people generally cannot fail. They are there to give people a (false) sense of security. Generally, those types of programs are like looking at the course listing descriptions of a typical university program in language teaching, including listing jargon without fully explaining it.

So maybe the difference between the two types of programs could be described:
-the first one is the same as going through the steps to become a teacher (of anything- elementary school, junior/ intermediate with a single teachable, or intermediate / senior with two teachables).
-the second one is reading a blog (A: "Is there a doctor in the house? We need a doctor! Someone is in serious need of medical help!" B: "I'm not a doctor, but I play on on TV, so I'll do what I can.")

There are, of course, things in between these two examples. Most of the world does not have a one-year "certificate" in TESL (or TESOL) prior to doing an MA in Applied Linguistics or language teaching. In fact, in the UK and Ireland, Australia and New Zealand, a one-year program in Applied Linguistics or Language teaching **IS** the masters degree, and it often doesn't include a practicum at all. Generally, people start off with a one-month IN PERSON intensive course (the CELTA or something like it). A problem would be if you were from Ontario, did your MA overseas and came back. You probably wouldn't be able to get a job a university in Ontario because you don't have a TESL certificate. (It would be like doing a masters degree in Educational Leadership [the degree you need to be a school principal] while overseas, and then trying to get a job at a high school in Ontario without a teacher's qualification in Ontario [you do not need a teacher's qualification to do a masters in education. But you do need one to do anything really in an actual high school]).

Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Trying to get job in tokyo with Canadian college diploma

king-nex wrote:

Hi I am currently attending college in Canada and I will be graduating next year. So issue I'm facing right now is that most of the Asian countries requires University Degree not a college diploma... which I think it's BS. I know it's difficult but I would like to get a teaching job in Japan specifically in tokyo. I have TESOL/TEFL certificate and I'm going to get TOEFL (don't know if it will help or not). Is there any other programs that I can apply? I know AEON but I'm hearing lot of crap about them. PLEASE help! I'm really desperate

Hi King-Nex,

I should warn you that I've not taught in Japan but I am very familiar with the Canadian education system (currently working at a Canadian college). Remember, three-year degrees aren't very well-known outside Canada (and are pretty rare here in western Canada too!).

You said you are going to take a TOEFL in the future. TOEFL is an exam generally taken by non-native speakers. Can you clarify? TOEFL is not appropriate for native English speakers, are you francophone? Is this a francophone three-year degree as well? In Ontario, one can't assume.

GambateBingBangBOOM has given you great informaton about getting a four-year degree. I hope you take on his advice and go for it. You'll find a lot of issues with your three-year degree. Your personal opinion doesn't matter, remember, these are government visa regulations.

As others have said, you could qualify for a working holiday visa (if you are under the age limit). Please keep in mind though that a three-year degree and basic TESOL/TEFL really doesn't meet the minimum standards to teach English abroad these days. You can still work legally in Cambodia, but other countries may decide it won't meet their government regulations. They just aren't going to risk it.

You have an extensive practicum in which you are told what you do well and what you need work on.

Indeed. I spent two months working full-time as an assistant/teacher as part of my practicum for the one-year certificate. I really can't imagine how one is supposed to learn to teach ESL in half that time including the theory and methodology, but I digress.

King-Nex,
I think many Japanese companies want evidence of 12 or so years of schooling in English. This means elementary, junior high and high school in English. Does anyone know what the rule is on this? I'm just asking because you mentioned you were considering TOEFL which means you are not a native speaker of English. The TOEFL would be a great idea because I think you owe it to your students to speak as near native English as possible. But, you will need to look at which companies will hire non-native speakers. Definitely possible... Maybe someone else on this board is familiar with this other issue?

I did some work for GABA, and they had non-native speakers working for them, doing English instruction. I presume they had some certification or qualifications in English, and/or did an English test as part of the interview process.

I really would advise against working for them though (do a quick search for them on this forum to find out why), unless there's absolutely nothing else you can do.

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: Trying to get job in tokyo with Canadian college diploma

king-nex wrote:

Hi I am currently attending college in Canada and I will be graduating next year. So issue I'm facing right now is that most of the Asian countries requires University Degree not a college diploma... which I think it's BS. I know it's difficult but I would like to get a teaching job in Japan specifically in tokyo. I have TESOL/TEFL certificate and I'm going to get TOEFL (don't know if it will help or not). Is there any other programs that I can apply? I know AEON but I'm hearing lot of crap about them. PLEASE help! I'm really desperate

If your parchment says, "Bachelor of.........." then you are good to go and most of Asia is open to you.

If your parchment says "diploma" or "associate" then you are pretty much stuck.

A TEFL/TESOL/TESL cert is largely meaningless outside of China and Vietnam (oh, and government schools in Korea).

A TOEFL (test of English) is a pointless waste of time for a "Native Speaker" (someome holding one of the golden 6-7 passports).

Without a completed BA your only real options are Cambodia, Myanmar, or the Korean TaLK program and all of those are very short term options.
Welcome to the 20-teens. It isn't was it was in the last century.

The final option is to work illegally but hey, in spite of the risks associated with that there are a fair few who do it to fund a vacation/gap year in Asia.

Now to get back on topic. If you have a two year diploma, most of asia is a no go. But Taiwan from what I last recall is a place to go to if you only have a two year diploma. But jobs are harder to get.

Now to get back on topic. If you have a two year diploma, most of asia is a no go. But Taiwan from what I last recall is a place to go to if you only have a two year diploma. But jobs are harder to get.

Thanks for bringing it back on topic; I don't see how the majority of your post is relevant to the topic in the thread though.