So there was President Obama giving his bazillionth speech on health care, droning yet again that "now is the hour when we must seize the moment," the same moment he's been seizing every day of the week for the past year, only this time his genius photo-op guys thought it would look good to have him surrounded by men in white coats.

Why is he doing this? Why let "health" "care" "reform" stagger on like the rotting husk in a low-grade creature feature who refuses to stay dead no matter how many stakes you pound through his chest?

Because it's worth it. Big time. I've been saying in this space for two years that the governmentalization of health care is the fastest way to a permanent left-of-center political culture.

It redefines the relationship between the citizen and the state in fundamental ways that make limited government all but impossible.

In most of the rest of the Western world, there are still nominally "conservative" parties, and they even win elections occasionally, but not to any great effect. (Let's not forget that Jacques Chirac was, in French terms, a "conservative.") The result is a kind of two-party one-party state:

Right-of-center parties will once in a while be in office, but never in power, merely presiding over vast left-wing bureaucracies that cruise on regardless.

Now a question I have is, if for some reason this bill gets approved, can a Republican President with a good republican majority overturn this? Like with an executive order?

Swampfox

03-06-2010, 01:26 AM

And he's very right.

Now a question I have is, if for some reason this bill gets approved, can a Republican President with a good republican majority overturn this? Like with an executive order?

A President cannot overturn it with an Executive Order. A Republican President and Congress could overturn it by Congress passing a bill overturning it and the President signing it into law.

Will they? I have no reason to have confidence that they will. We still have social security, medicaid, medicare and all the other entitlement programs and bureaucracies the progressives created. Why would this be any different.

If this passes, we are screwed. Pure and simple.

djones520

03-06-2010, 01:29 AM

A President cannot overturn it with an Executive Order. A Republican President and Congress could overturn it by Congress passing a bill overturning it and the President signing it into law.

Will they? I have no reason to have confidence that they will. We still have social security, medicaid, medicare and all the other entitlement programs and bureaucracies the progressives created. Why would this be any different.

If this passes, we are screwed. Pure and simple.

None of those programs put the governments fingers into 1/5th of the US economy though. I'm remaining cautiously optimistic that this bill will not pass, but we gotta be ready to force our Reps and Senators to overturn this as soon as possible if it does go through.

Rockntractor

03-06-2010, 01:30 AM

A President cannot overturn it with an Executive Order. A Republican President and Congress could overturn it by Congress passing a bill overturning it and the President signing it into law.

Will they? I have no reason to have confidence that they will. We still have social security, medicaid, medicare and all the other entitlement programs and bureaucracies the progressives created. Why would this be any different.

If this passes, we are screwed. Pure and simple.
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/guillotine1copy.jpg?t=1267853377

Swampfox

03-06-2010, 01:30 AM

None of those programs put the governments fingers into 1/5th of the US economy though.

By the time the Republicans got in power the bureaucracy would be too big. You might get some reforms, but they wouldn't get rid of the system.

Hell, it's the Republicans that keep complaining that one of the ways the Democrats are going to "pay for" this health care monstrosity is cuts to medicare.

Think about that.

Swampfox

03-06-2010, 01:33 AM

If this passes, I'm thinking about getting funding together for a floating barge in the middle of the Pacific with a hospital on it where patients can fly in and have their procedures done outside the jurisdiction of all this socialized medicine. I think the stakes are that high.

I'm only half kidding about that. Half kidding because I wouldn't know where to get the funds together.

Rockntractor

03-06-2010, 01:36 AM

If this passes, I'm thinking about getting funding together for a floating barge in the middle of the Pacific with a hospital on it where patients can fly in and have their procedures done outside the jurisdiction of all this socialized medicine. I think the stakes are that high.

I'm only half kidding about that. Half kidding because I wouldn't know where to get the funds together.

Mexico will become wealthy!

megimoo

03-06-2010, 01:41 AM

Very interesting.

Investors (http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=525661)It's true enough.When Bush was elected president the department of State,Justice and just about every other Government bureaucracy was loaded with Clinton's Party followers as was The CIA and FBI.These people never leave and are difficult to dislodge.Over the years their power has grown and they have formed a shadow power working against any effort of a conservative president to move his agenda. DHS has grown into a huge Federal monster ready to control our every movement and limit our freedoms.They will eventually totally track and control our every posting and conversation over the internet.

lacarnut

03-06-2010, 02:11 AM

Mexico will become wealthy!

Mexico and Panama have quite a few specialist that have trained in the US. The cost of an operation is 1/3 to 1/2 less than in the US. Panama has a world class hospital in Panama City (John Hopkins). A gringo can buy insurance for less than a hundred bucks a month there.

If this health care bill monstrosity passes, moving to either one of those countries is a possibility.

megimoo

03-06-2010, 03:04 AM

Mexico and Panama have quite a few specialist that have trained in the US. The cost of an operation is 1/3 to 1/2 less than in the US. Panama has a world class hospital in Panama City (John Hopkins). A gringo can buy insurance for less than a hundred bucks a month there.

If this health care bill monstrosity passes, moving to either one of those countries is a possibility.

Mexico has some very tough rules for immigrant retirees from America.There is a minimum monthly income requirement and a thorough police background check .

Certain areas of the country are under drug gang control and most of the cops are on the drug lords payroll or quickly dead. If the gangs think that you have any money they will kidnap you for ransom and if it isn't paid quickly they will kill you !

There is a war going on between the government and the drug lords .The Federal police force is infiltrated with drug informers so the planing for any raids must be done at the last minute in the field.The first thing the Mexican Federales do when they enter a town on an raid is seize local police force's cell phones,disarm them and round up all of their weapons and take them away from the town to prevent them warning the drug dealers.

It's also a very dangerous place to live where simply eating dinner in the wrong place can lead to your death.Often when a gang member spots another rival in a restaurant he will summon a 'hit squad' and they will kill everyone to prevent any witnesses against them.

Mexico is about as dangerous as Baghdad is for a Christian these days .

Rockntractor

03-06-2010, 03:13 AM

Mexico has some very tough rules for immigrant retirees from America.There is a minimum monthly income requirement and a thorough police background check .

Certain areas of the country are under drug gang control and most of the cops are on the drug lords payroll or quickly dead. If the gangs think that you have any money they will kidnap you for ransom and if it isn't payed quickly they will kill you !

There is a war going on between the government and the drug lords .The Federal police force is infiltrated with drug informers so the planing for any raids must be done at the last minute in the field.The first thing the Mexican Federales do when they enter a town on an raid is seize local police force's cell phones,disarm them and round up all of their weapons and take them away from the town to prevent them warning the drug dealers.

It's also a very dangerous place to live where simply eating dinner in the wrong place can lead to your death.Often when a gang member spots another rival in a restaurant he will summon a 'hit squad' and they will kill everyone to prevent any witnesses against them.

Mexico is about as dangerous as Baghdad is for a Christian these days .

When their government discovers they can make more money providing health care than selling drugs that will change.