When it comes to cables, there are three factors to consider when patching out of the soundboard:

<1> plugging into the soundboardThere are only so many options for soundboard outputs. These outputs are usually XLR-male, RCA-female, and 1/4" mono female (and occasionally 1/4" stereo female which I won't address here). So we need to have cables or adapters that will allows us to plug into the outputs listed above.

<2> running a length of cable to get out of the waySince the soundboard outputs are, well, part of the soundboard, it's best to have a length of cable so we may run our gear out of the sound engineer's way. Six feet should suffice.

<3> plugging into the preamp/ADC/recorderHow to feed the signal to our preamp/ADC/recorder depends on the connectors on our preamp/ADC/connector. The most common preamps/ADCs/recorders have the following connectors: XLR-female, RCA-female, and stereo mini female.

Let's look at precisely what it would take to plug into the soundboard with a preamp/ADC/recorder having each of the connectors mentioned above. All three options below addresses the three factors from above: <1> supports the three most common soundboard connectors, <2> provides a length of cable to run your gear out of the sound engineer's way, and <3> includes the appropriate plug for the preamp/ADC/recorder. In each case, there are multiple ways to configure your own cables/adapters, but hopefully this will give an idea of what's required for each. If the preamp/ADC/recorder connector is:

length of cable with [2] RCA-male on one end and [1] stereo mini male on the other end (see DKlein pic)

<b> RCA-maleThis scenario requires a minimal change to the one David shows above in his picture. Instead of the stereo mini male adapter on one end of the cable run, simply replace it with a pair of RCA-male connectors. The list of cables/adapters:

<c> XLR-maleI would mix up the solution for this one a bit. Since the preamp/ADC/recorder takes XLR-male connectors, I would use a pair of XLR-male / XLR-female cables for my run length. That way, I could use the cables as interconnects, or even short mic cables, if necessary. This would also require a change from the adapters listed above. The list of cables / adapters (see attached for pics of the different adapters):

[2] RCA-male / XLR-male adapters (see attached pic)

[2] 1/4" mono male / XLR-male adapters (see attached pic)

length of cable with [2] XLR-male on one end and [2] XLR-female on the other end (not pictured)

I actually made a couple of 6' XLRF->1/4" (1/4" to go into my mixer), and I ordered a couple of 1/4"/XLRM and RCA/XLRM adapters....basically did this in agreement with Brian...makes it easier to haul around 2 SBD cables and adapters for all possible outputs...

Good catch, Cooker. I meant to have that one on there, too. I'm not sure which is appropriate as I'm unsure if most 1/4" outputs are male or female. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have both handy (I do, but haven't used them yet as I rarely patch into the board).

For example, many folks will run the soundboard patch directly into a Sony portable DAT deck

I've always wondered about this- why not use your normal ADC before the deck? Anybody?

If I wasn't running audience at the same time, I personally would run a SBD patch through my V3 (or other outboard ADC). Only reason I wouldn't is if the SBD signal was too hot (but if that was the case, I'd probably carry around a set of attenuators).

brian -- i may be lucky enough to gain access to a sbd patch this coming weekend for a number of shows and hence am looking to pick up a number of cables to do so. your option 2 sounds like it would be the best option for me, however i'm a little confused in regards to the 'female' plug type in the above quoted list, shouldn't these be 2 x RCA male -> 3.5mm stereo adapter? ie, plugging the male cable into the female adapter in the sbd?

shouldn't these be 2 x RCA male -> 3.5mm stereo adapter? ie, plugging the male cable into the female adapter in the sbd?

The adapters listed are just that - adapters. The assumption is that you have a length of cable to run from the SBD to your recording location at which point you would use the appropriate adapter.

Quote

The problem with option 2 is if you want a cable run to support all three input-specific adapters, you'll have to carry around a separate cable run for RCA, XLR and 1/4" connectors - that's a lot of cable runs to schlep around, IMO.

So if you're expecting an RCA patch outta the board, you'd have, say, a 6' cable run of 2 x RCA male/male - plug one end into the board, the other into your 2 x RCA female > 3.5mm stereo adapter.

If you're getting an XLR patch, you'd have, say, a 6' cable run of 2 x XLRf/XLRm - plug the female end into the board, male end into your 2 x XLRf > 3.5mm stereo adapter. Make sense?

When I first started board patching, all I needed was one cable and 2 sets of adapters. I bought a monster RCA > mini plug cable. One end has two male RCA jacks, while the other end has an 1/8" stereo connector. Then I bought two 1/4" male to RCA female (like pictured above) adapters and two XLR female to RCA female adapters.

When I first started board patching, all I needed was one cable and 2 sets of adapters. I bought a monster RCA > mini plug cable. One end has two male RCA jacks, while the other end has an 1/8" stereo connector. Then I bought two 1/4" male to RCA female (like pictured above) adapters and two XLR female to RCA female adapters.

That would cover you 99.9% of the time.

this is what i schelp around for analog patching... plus a pair of rca couplings (female at both ends)

Other way around T-90, you want RCA to XLR, the way you describe you would be feeding you ad-20 into the SBD. Also, when using the ad-20 beware that it adds a considerable amount of gain, even with the knobs all the way down. Look into some attenuators if you'll be pulling alot of board patches.

I am actually looking for two RCA-female / XLR-male adapters.(If I'm using the XLR inputs on my UA-5 for the mics and want to mix in an XLR out from the soundboard I have to take it into the RCA jacks on the UA-5.) Also, since my attenuators are designed for use on RCA connects, it is exactly what I need.

One thing to mention is polarity of the output of the console, if its XLR you may need phase reverse cable (an XLR cable that swaps pin 2 with pin 3) so that your sound board patch is in phase with your room mics. Out of phase board mix with your room mics can result in a real loss of bottom end in your recordings but it can also do other things as well.

All mic preamps are pin 2 hot pin 3 neg pin 1 ground, if you’re doing room mics they will always be pin 2 hot. But console outputs can be pin 2 or pin 3 in the case of XLR outputs. With unbalanced outputs like 1/4 there is no problem 99.9% of the time tip is positive.

You can also have 1/4 inch balanced with the ring or tip being positive. I think this is often overlooked and can result in a real phase mess, if proper polarity is not adhered too. If you are in doubt the only way to tell is with a phase meter ( not something most of you will carry) But the sound tech should know what pin on the XLR out is hot.

When you get home to mix it down listen for the difference when you reverse the board mix track and combine it with the room mics. If you did a multitrack recording if not your stuck with the results there is no way to fix it after the fact. IMO all tapers that are going to be using XLR connectors going to a preamp or record input should have a set of phase reverse cables.The phase issue is moot if you plan on just recording the board mix as there is no reference to the actual polarity so there is no phase issue. Although some people claim to be able to hear a recording that is entirely out of phase, with respect to the original orientation of the recording mics being used not with left and right! That is very hard to do but it is possible to hear that difference.

When it comes to cables, there are three factors to consider when patching out of the soundboard:

<1> plugging into the soundboardThere are only so many options for soundboard outputs. These outputs are usually XLR-male, RCA-female, and 1/4" mono female (and occasionally 1/4" stereo female which I won't address here). So we need to have cables or adapters that will allows us to plug into the outputs listed above.

<2> running a length of cable to get out of the waySince the soundboard outputs are, well, part of the soundboard, it's best to have a length of cable so we may run our gear out of the sound engineer's way. Six feet should suffice.

<3> plugging into the preamp/ADC/recorderHow to feed the signal to our preamp/ADC/recorder depends on the connectors on our preamp/ADC/connector. The most common preamps/ADCs/recorders have the following connectors: XLR-female, RCA-female, and stereo mini female.

Let's look at precisely what it would take to plug into the soundboard with a preamp/ADC/recorder having each of the connectors mentioned above. All three options below addresses the three factors from above: <1> supports the three most common soundboard connectors, <2> provides a length of cable to run your gear out of the sound engineer's way, and <3> includes the appropriate plug for the preamp/ADC/recorder. In each case, there are multiple ways to configure your own cables/adapters, but hopefully this will give an idea of what's required for each. If the preamp/ADC/recorder connector is:

length of cable with [2] RCA-male on one end and [1] stereo mini male on the other end (see DKlein pic)

<b> RCA-maleThis scenario requires a minimal change to the one David shows above in his picture. Instead of the stereo mini male adapter on one end of the cable run, simply replace it with a pair of RCA-male connectors. The list of cables/adapters:

<c> XLR-maleI would mix up the solution for this one a bit. Since the preamp/ADC/recorder takes XLR-male connectors, I would use a pair of XLR-male / XLR-female cables for my run length. That way, I could use the cables as interconnects, or even short mic cables, if necessary. This would also require a change from the adapters listed above. The list of cables / adapters (see attached for pics of the different adapters):

[2] RCA-male / XLR-male adapters (see attached pic)

[2] 1/4" mono male / XLR-male adapters (see attached pic)

length of cable with [2] XLR-male on one end and [2] XLR-female on the other end (not pictured)

One thing to mention is polarity of the output of the console, if its XLR you may need phase reverse cable (an XLR cable that swaps pin 2 with pin 3) so that your sound board patch is in phase with your room mics. Out of phase board mix with your room mics can result in a real loss of bottom end in your recordings but it can also do other things as well.

Thanks Chris. That thought hadn't occurred to me but makes sense.First time I'll be using those adaptors will most likely be a post-mix matrix because the board in the venue (an old movie theater) is stage left and I'll be trying to get the mics deeper into the room. Even if I do run the mics AND board feed into my multi-track unit, I can invert the phase on the mic feeds if need be after the fact (pre mixdown).

One thing to mention is polarity of the output of the console, if its XLR you may need phase reverse cable (an XLR cable that swaps pin 2 with pin 3) so that your sound board patch is in phase with your room mics. Out of phase board mix with your room mics can result in a real loss of bottom end in your recordings but it can also do other things as well.

Thanks Chris. That thought hadn't occurred to me but makes sense.First time I'll be using those adaptors will most likely be a post-mix matrix because the board in the venue (an old movie theater) is stage left and I'll be trying to get the mics deeper into the room. Even if I do run the mics AND board feed into my multi-track unit, I can invert the phase on the mic feeds if need be after the fact (pre mixdown).

But big thanks for bringing up an issue that hadn't crossed my mind.

tim

No problem. Its always overlooked part of sound patches. Always try and get the make and model of the soundboard as well as where you patched in, Aux out, main out, control room out, Matrix out, ect, so you can look it up at the console company's web site and to be sure that everything is the same polarity. That's what I would do, Its very hard because mic inputs on every known console out there, is pin 2 (+) pin 3 (- ) pin 1 ground.

But there is absolutely no standard what so ever for console outputs! unless its a unbalanced out, where the tip will always be + and the barrel will always be - the only way to tell is with a phase checker, or contacting the company that made the console in question. Soundcraft a well know leader in mixing consoles, They had problems with the early ones because they did no know unless you had a serial number ( even then they sometimes could not figure it out) because they changed it so many times lol. Its nuts..

Recording devices for the most part are pin 2 hot pin 3 cold pin 1 ground. so this is where the problems start. Remember that polarity is an absolute and the best way to get a good recording is to get it right at the venue not in post. Because there is a difference between doing things in the digital domain and doing things in the analog domain when it comes to polarity.

Chris, In response to your last post, if you are given the choice, is there a preferred set of board outputs that I should picK? Are some hotter than others, and if so, and people have referred to using attenuators, are they referring to normal XLR pad type attenuators, or something more like the voltage attenuators between AES/EBU and SPDIF? In either case, what level of attenuation should I be prepared to handle?

Chris, In response to your last post, if you are given the choice, is there a preferred set of board outputs that I should picK? Are some hotter than others, and if so, and people have referred to using attenuators, are they referring to normal XLR pad type attenuators, or something more like the voltage attenuators between AES/EBU and SPDIF? In either case, what level of attenuation should I be prepared to handle?

If you are handy with a soldering iron, it is very easy to make attenuator cables. The circuit is a voltage divider comprised of resistors. I have made several pads inside XLR housings and even 1/4" plugs. If you know the amount of attenuation you need, I bet Chris or someone else here would be happy to make them and sell them to you. Get that cable made and some adaptors to mate with XLR, 1/4" and RCA, and you'll be set.

It's the same as in the most useful pic earlier in this thread, but with the addition of a pair of RCA Female > XLR Male adaptors just on the off chance.

Would this be sufficient? I'm aware that I should be grateful for any board connection I get offered, but obviously I want to have as broad a set of options as possible without having to cart around a huge box of adaptors and whatnot.

Here's what I use for all my soundboard patching needs when patching to a small recorder with a 1/8" (3.5mm) input jack. If using a recorder/pre with dual XLR female inputs, you can just use a dual RCA male to dual RCA male cable with an extra set of RCA female to XLR male adapters (of course, this is fairly obvious):

I don't know if they are still in business in the States (I'm posting from Scotland here) but when they were still on the go over here, Tandy did a very nice right angle 3.5mm minijack adaptor...I'd always shyed away from that kind of thing but it proved invaluable for getting mics into the side of my TCD-D3 when it was in my carrying bag.Neutrik do a very nice rewireable minjack- I've got some in gold here in the workshop- in fact I've got everything here for that.

I could make you the lead you're after and ship it for postage only if you like?

But, the female RCA patch out on your adapter is an interesting choice...I carry a Male RCA<>Male XLR and think I've used it on a soundboard once...now that once I had to ask for a mono mix because it was so thick I couldn't plug in the other one.

Yeah, I do carry (2) 1/4" female to RCA male adapters for that RCA female output too. My experience has been that most guys are prepared for 1/4" out from the sound board. In all the years I've used them I can only remember two times when someone wanted to patch into the board after me...

Yeah, I do carry (2) 1/4" female to RCA male adapters for that RCA female output too. My experience has been that most guys are prepared for 1/4" out from the sound board. In all the years I've used them I can only remember two times when someone wanted to patch into the board after me...

I have an entire bag of cables and gender benders that I've never used, I was so excited when I got the opportunity to record live on a regular basis I just went on a shopping spree so I would not show up unprepared haha. come to find out they have EVERY output maxed out and most of them already running splitters.I just recently found out this venue I typically record at does have ONE available 1/4 mono aux out on the SB, so even though the SB tech has no knowledge of attaching recorders to it he has been more than helpful to try to get me a good feed from it recently, however it is usually hit and miss. one band I may get all vocals/snare guitar. next band may have a perfect mix, next band may be all bass drum and bass guitar.

So it always pays off to be prepared, I have too many cables but I am glad I do, I recently trimmed down the luggage to just one 1/4 mono to 3.5mm stereo, 1/4 mono splitter, 3.5mm splitter xlr f and m plus xlr splitters and an xlr with a built in attenuator to 1/4 and that seems to cover every plug type in the club and on my recorders.

I love doing this and I read this forum continuously to learn more, I am eager to master this, it is truly a great hobby and loads of fun!

I recently got some used 15' GakCables from my good friend Dustin[aka caymanreview! Thanks again buddy ] for the RARE times that I get a SBD patch, or if I needed my +60v PFA setup extended even longer than it already is! Well, I also wanted to be prepared for ANY SBD output possible[XLR/RCA/1/4"], so I just ordered these two pairs of adapters so that I can easily go from the XLR ends, to the 1/4" jacks, or the RCA jacks depending on which board it is, just by switching out adapters at the SBD end! Should make patching the SBD nice and easy and I should now be covered for pretty much ANY SBD patching situation I might encounter, whether it be a tiny cheaper one, or a bigass Midas Pro

I just thought that I'd share these so that anyone needing to do the same will know the cheapest route to get them! I was initially going to order from Full Compass for like the 4th time this week[seriously lol ], but shipping was almost $13, so I said fu*k that and looked on ebay! I saved OVER the $13 shipping fee from Full Compass on eBay too and got all [4] adapters for only $34/Shipped! hahaha. That was the cheapest I could find them online, especially from the same site/place Anyway, here's the links where I got mine at tonight on eBay!