The Stones played terrible last night. They started off looking like the champs...but letting Ginobili and the Spurs go on that run in the 4th was aweful.

Did anyone catch at halftime when the commentator asked "Why is Arroyo even in this game?" That's a shot in the mouth to Arroyo. Arroyo by the way, played terribly, so did Hunter. Rip couldn't make a bucket. Tayshaun didn't look anything like Tayshaun...

Duncan dominated the paint and the boards. They need to find some way to stop him or at least make him put up some difficult hook shots rather than some 2-3 finger rolls.

June 10th, 2005, 7:51 am

blueblood1

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 2:19 pmPosts: 577

I am with you on your analysis, Convo, (as usual) but I will say that I am quite sure that Detroit is the better team. The problem is that Detroit simply beats itself (like all great teams do).

A few of my reactions from last night:

- Officiating was questionable a few times (usually involving Manu--like we experienced with Wade last series). However, it was the best officiating we have had since game one of the Miami series. At this point in the playoffs, you gotta let the guys play a little, so the best players can rise to the top; only call clear fouls and thuggery. At least that is how the NBA playoffs used to be.

- we missed everything! Chauncey was his normal self, but everybody else sucked. Rip and Tay got good looks and should have each had at least 10 more pts apiece. Dyess should have had at least 3 more hoops, too.

- Carlos Arroyo looked terrible out there last night. IMO, he was just slow and lazy. When he got those 2 fouls in 5 seconds, it was because he had begun that possession playing really tough, aggressive D. Then he got a ticky tack [bad] call on him. The next foul was pure laziness, as he just grabbed Parker as he was going by. Did not even try to move his feet. Then the next play, (a loose ball), he failed to hustle and grab it, trying instead to let it go OB, and Manu made him look silly.

- I think Rip got feeling sorry for himself and stopped hustling all the time, too. He looked tired out there, and IMO, the Rip I KNOW would not be tired in the middle of the fourth quarter. I would be willing to bet he was kind of pouting at that point.

- The game was lost in the first quarter, when we could have maintained that big 17-4 cushion for SA's inevitable run. Larry Brown let that lead be squandered by staying with Arroyo's scared rectum, Lindsey's brick-laying rectum, and Dyess (who apparently cannot score over Duncan whatsoever). LB tried to steal too much rest for his starters and next thing you know, SA is back in the game before the quarter is over. I DON'T FEEL THAT SA CAUGHT UP FROM THEIR OWN STELLAR PLAY THEN. WE SAW THEIR STELLAR PLAY IN THE FOURTH. PISTONS JUST SUCKED FOR ALL BUT ABOUT THE FIRST 10 MINUTES OF THAT GAME!

_________________"With the second pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Detroit Lions select Calvin Johnson, WR from Georgia Tech."

My favorite day ever as a Lions fan.

Somehow landing the Ndamo-nator would be the second best day ever.

June 10th, 2005, 9:14 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9645Location: Dallas

First the positive, from a match up perspective I think a number of matchups favor Detroit. Ginobli is going to struggle with Prince, Parker is not strong enough to cover Billips, etc... These were evident early in the game. I'm hoping these will play out over the case of a 7 game series.

2) Fouls - there was a point late in the 3rd, early in the 4th were the refs missed a ton of fouls, especially charges. Ginobli had two charges, one was a no call for a lay up and the other was called a blocking foul on Sheed. Ginobli had already picked up 3 fouls in the 3rd quarter and should have been on the bench for the rest of the game, instead Sheed winds up on Detroits bench and Ginobli goes nuts in the 4th quarter. Clearly the charge on Big Ben was wrong as well as the defender was within the semi-circle. These sequences changed the entire make up of the game.

As for Duncan, he is going to get his 25 points, 15 rebounds every night. Gotta live with that.

And Hubie Brown is the worst announcer, I'm already sick of his ramblings - the guy is an idiot.

2) Fouls - there was a point late in the 3rd, early in the 4th were the refs missed a ton of fouls, especially charges. Ginobli had two charges, one was a no call for a lay up and the other was called a blocking foul on Sheed. Ginobli had already picked up 3 fouls in the 3rd quarter and should have been on the bench for the rest of the game, instead Sheed winds up on Detroits bench and Ginobli goes nuts in the 4th quarter. Clearly the charge on Big Ben was wrong as well as the defender was within the semi-circle. These sequences changed the entire make up of the game.

As for Duncan, he is going to get his 25 points, 15 rebounds every night. Gotta live with that.

Duncan is an oustanding player. It's inevitable that's he's going to get those points, I agree Pablo. However, Sheed's gotta make him work for those points. Sheed wasn't putting up much of a fight near the bucket. Sheed's blocking attempts on Duncan looked terrible most of the game.

As with both of you, it was clear they were missing wide open shots all night long. Rip missing wide open baseline jumpers? What? That's his bread and butter! The Stones missed something like 8 shots within 3 feet of the bucket in the first quarter. I'm sorry, but that's where the game is either won or lost, and the Stones lost the game in the first quarter by missing those potential 16 points. That would have won the game for the Stones (84-69 was the final I think).

Pablo, you do bring up some good instances of bad calls; both on the Stones and on the Spurs. There was one I remember where Tay went up for a finger roll and plowed over Mohammad, but it sure looked to me like Mohammad's feet were moving. Plus, I think charging fouls called when the shooter is in the air and the defender comes off a screen and plants himself, suck. What's the shooter to do? Change direction in mid-hop or stop on a dime? It doesn't work that way.

Slow and lazy is not the Stones we know and love.

Above all, I think LB was just outcoached. LB made some terrible substitutions all night long. I remember saying, why is Arroyo in the game right now and why is Hunter in there now? Oh well, game 2 on Sunday...hopefully they'll "git 'er done."

Last edited by conversion02 on June 10th, 2005, 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

June 10th, 2005, 10:29 am

DeadHeadLion

Varsity Captain

Joined: March 17th, 2005, 12:41 amPosts: 313

blueblood1 wrote:

Pablo wrote:

I was with you until here, Pablo. Hubie was bad, but nowhere NEAR as bad as Bill Walton or Billy Packer (for NCAA tourney).

For football, Theisman, Dierdorf and Madden are the worst!

I have to MUTE the television when any of these clowns are commenting.

Back to the game though. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED!? I leave my house with the spurs down 17-6 and I check espn this morning to see we got our rectum' handed to us. Was it all Arroyos fault? Or did we just play bad?

June 10th, 2005, 10:31 am

theAlphaMale

Site Admin

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 amPosts: 4920Location: Hills of Auburn

If I were Chauncey I would be PISSED.

I think the calls were not good either. Ben got plowed several times and its not that I expect Ben to make his FTs but it would have taken 6-8 points away from San Antonio.

Ben did pretty well but slowed in the 2nd half and Sheed disappeared. I love Sheeds D on Duncan on the occasion he was in the game. He played he perfectly sometimes and the Spurs just got breaks.

Lindsay DRIVES me nuts when he shots cause he pretty much can't but his defense balances it out to make him pretty valuable. The guy made some great steals last night but he needs to not have the ball in his hands with 3 seconds on the shot clock.

Call me crazy...but I think we miss Memo in this series. The kid had ice in his veins and could hit those 10 footers or baselines that escaped McDyess last night. Unlike Rip, McDyess, and Tayshaun Memo never really was scared to shoot. If Rip bricks a few he starts to pass and he is not a great passer.

Move of the night though was Chaunceys behind the back deke on Robert Horrey. That was awsome!

_________________Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder

June 10th, 2005, 11:37 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9645Location: Dallas

blueblood1 wrote:

Pablo wrote:

I was with you until here, Pablo. Hubie was bad, but nowhere NEAR as bad as Bill Walton or Billy Packer (for NCAA tourney).

For football, Theisman, Dierdorf and Madden are the worst!

I have to MUTE the television when any of these clowns are commenting.

I should have said NBA announcers. Walton gets on my nerves, but he doesn't announce the games so it is easy for me to skip through his rants thanks to TiVO. After about 5 bad calls in a row (some of which even Hubie questioned), he said what a tough game this was to ref and what a great job the refs were doing. I wanted to pull a Russell Crowe on his face at that point.

I won't blame the refs for this game, I'll put that on the Stones ability to hit easy shots. I thought Brown was outcoached as well last night. But the clear turning point in the game IMO was a series of calls late in the 3rd and early in the 4th. Switch those around to the correct calls and it would have been an entirely different 4th quarter.

Alpha reminded me of something that got my gall last night: Does anybody remember once when the Pistons got a shot clock violation on the nearside of the floor because they had isolated one side for BEN and ARROYO to run a two man offense? WTF was THAT?! Larry, WTF!!!?!!!

Neither of those guys are out there for their offensive prowess...which is why they spent about 15 seconds going nowhere in the saddest pick-and-roll execution I have ever seen!

In regards to the front line not scoring, you guys are letting Hubie tell you what is happening! Chauncey and Rip WILL have to bear the load because the Spurs sag on defense better than anybody. I don't expect our big men to get much room to operate AT ALL. The Mismatches are out along the perimeter with Chauncey's strength and whomever Manu is guarding (since he can only go for steals and flop like a fish of offensive fouls--see him anticipating rip's direction, drawing the contact, and launching himself to the floor?).

_________________"With the second pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Detroit Lions select Calvin Johnson, WR from Georgia Tech."

SC had some interesting points. Larry was apparently screaming at his guards to pass to the big men. Also, Stephen A. Smith was blustering about Arroyo. I didn't see the game, but he must have done something wrong.

Don't worry fellas, the Pistons are going to win this thing. They play best like a cornered dog.

_________________"If he isn't the best football player, the best runner, that the Lord has ever made, then the Lord has yet to make one." Wayne Fontes on Barry.

June 10th, 2005, 12:35 pm

Yorick

ST Coordinator – John Bonamego

Joined: March 22nd, 2005, 8:42 pmPosts: 3811

" The problem is that Detroit simply beats itself (like all great teams do)."

You will have to explain this one for me!

The Pistons did miss open shots apparently-for I did not see the game. Unfortunately, I do not think that is a fluke. The match ups did seem in our favor last night but we lost by a large margin. Has SA adjusted permanently? I guess we will find out soon. Winning the next match would seem critical.

_________________Far and away from the sound and the fury. . .

June 10th, 2005, 12:43 pm

blueblood1

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 2:19 pmPosts: 577

Quote:

The problem is that Detroit simply beats itself (like all great teams do).

Yo, I think I could have stated this more clearly: The great teams are their own worst enemy in the sense that nobody can beat them when they are on their game. Hence, it follows that opponents must be prepared when the great team struggles to find that synergy that makes them unbeatable.

Your issue may be with my implication that the Pistons are a great team. Which is fine. As an avid fan of the NBA, I stolidly believe that the Pistons are, easily, the best team in the NBA when they play to their ability (and do not beat themselves with turnovers or selfish play). IMH (but not understated) O, the Pistons have only been beaten, despite their best efforts, by a better team once these playoffs: when D-Wade and Shaq just smacked 'em in game 2 of the ECF. I don't think any team in the NBA would have beaten MIA that night with the types of performances turned in by Wade, Shaq, and co.

Another way to state it is: IMO, there has been only one night where the Pistons could look back and say, "yeah, we gave it our best and our best was not as good as the other team's best tonight."

It may seem like splitting hairs, but to me, the distinction is critical as a supporter of the Pistons because while it may feel consoling to say after a game, "they played hard and just got beat tonight," it is somewhat of a hopeless conclusion to have to reach. If the other team is capable of beating you--even when you're playing your best game--then your team should lose in the long run (all bad nights and breaks averaging out equally and being negated). On the other hand, after each loss against PHI, IND, and MIA (not including game 2), I felt like: "the pistons played poorly tonight--for whatever reason, usually effort, it seems, which is why this team kicks rectum with its back against the wall--over the long run, the better team will win out in a long enough series.

Analogues: most dynasty teams lose only by beating themselves, not because they are overmatched: 'Boys of the 90s; Jordan's Bulls; Team USA in olympic basketball; nearly every redwing team in recent history, etc.

The Spurs looked good in the late-3rd and early 4th quarters last night, but, again IMO, not so good that the Pistons could not match/neutralize them and win anyway. I suppose it's possible that SA will prove to be the better team, but I am not convinced of it after even last night's harrowing loss.

So I feel really long winded and convoluted with this, although it makes sense to me. I am sorry if this argument is incomprehensible.

_________________"With the second pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Detroit Lions select Calvin Johnson, WR from Georgia Tech."

My favorite day ever as a Lions fan.

Somehow landing the Ndamo-nator would be the second best day ever.

June 10th, 2005, 1:40 pm

conversion02

RIP Killer

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pmPosts: 10493Location: Sycamore, IL

blueblood1 wrote:

Team USA in olympic basketball

I believe you're referring to the DREAM TEAM. Wow, what a team that was. Sorry, I just felt like throwing the dream team thing in there because I wanted to play around with some colors... Glenn Robinson (Big Dog) was my fav player on that team (outside of Jordan...cuz he's Jordan).

June 10th, 2005, 2:26 pm

Yorick

ST Coordinator – John Bonamego

Joined: March 22nd, 2005, 8:42 pmPosts: 3811

It is not incomprehensible. I think we have a different view on how good the Pistons are as you said. I see them as overachievers this year. The defense is not quite as tight and they go through long stretches of not scoring. After the Pistons destroyed the Lakers last year they ripped the team apart. I think this series may have a bearing on this team and fans' perceptions of them.

_________________Far and away from the sound and the fury. . .

June 10th, 2005, 2:30 pm

blueblood1

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 2:19 pmPosts: 577

Yorick wrote:

I see them as overachievers this year.

Fair enough. Still, to me it seems that the Pistons have had as their primary mission all year to prove that LAST YEAR wasn't mere overachievement (which it may have been).

_________________"With the second pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Detroit Lions select Calvin Johnson, WR from Georgia Tech."