Looks good overall. In Civ5, though, it seemed at par or slightly worse than a high-quality trackpad. This does not bode well for the RTS and MOBA genres.

Would be more interesting if it was user customisable, such as having an optional joystick/d-pad replacement in one slot, and optional optical trackball in the other, so that you could customise it as you wanted.

I'm presuming you can toggle between "mouse mode" for the right touch-pad and "joystick mode." While it looks really neat and does seem to offer a good deal of precision, the constant swiping to turn (as opposed to using a thumb-stick to effectively throttle rotation) seems like it would really hurt after a while espescially in a game like Skyrim or Portal 3.

EDIT: Alright so I must be going deaf. Early in the video they quickly explain that the pads are individually configurable, so it shouldn't be difficult to customize it how you want. This could be pretty cool, but I don't think I'll be using the one-to-one mode as my default look mode. However, if it allows for enough customization I would probably try it as alternate look mode activated by holding down one of the less used buttons.

Whenever I use a controller now I start to ache after such a short time that I have to wonder how I was able to use them for hours at a time in the days of my youth (although maybe the N64 thumbstick created this now shattered person).

With that in mind, I can't imagine using those thumb trackpads for any amount of time. Constantly lifting your thumb up and down has got to be tiring on it.

I'm impressed. Wonder what kind of settings they'll have for per-game customization of sensitivity.

I'd be disappointed if it was anything less that the Xbox360 controller config, which IIRC lets you adjust the stick sensitivity, add dead zones, etc. I'm betting it will even go beyond that.

I have a strong suspicion they're going to leave much of the configuring to the community, via something akin to the Steam Workshop. Obvious there's no way Valve themselves could program controls for every single PC game out there, so they may as well let fans upload their configs so other players can download and rate them. So unless you're running something pretty rare, chances are somebody else will already have made a controller script you can quickly patch in.

Also, as I said in previous thread, I really hope they make an overlay or something to highlight the cursor. It would be pretty hard to see where you're pointing in Civ V from a couch. Gamepads & trackpads don't have quite the same proprioceptive feel as a mouse.

While I think this is great for translating KB+M to a controller, I feel that there is a huge gap here for games where a joystick is already superior to KB+M such as driving games and platformers. I guess keep a PS/Xbox controller on standby for those games?

While I think this is great for translating KB+M to a controller, I feel that there is a huge gap here for games where a joystick is already superior to KB+M such as driving games and platformers. I guess keep a PS/Xbox controller on standby for those games?

Sure, nothing stopping you from doing that. Nobody's going to make you throw out your existing gamepads or take away support from games that are already compatible with those.

This is about having yet another control option. Use what's optimal for you

While I think this is great for translating KB+M to a controller, I feel that there is a huge gap here for games where a joystick is already superior to KB+M such as driving games and platformers. I guess keep a PS/Xbox controller on standby for those games?

I was thinking just the opposite. You could configure the track pad to correlate the amount of lean in the joystick to the distance from the center of the trackpad. I would think this would be even more precise than the joystick and still getting the advantages of a joystick like not having to pick up your thumb/mouse.

Whenever I use a controller now I start to ache after such a short time that I have to wonder how I was able to use them for hours at a time in the days of my youth (although maybe the N64 thumbstick created this now shattered person).

With that in mind, I can't imagine using those thumb trackpads for any amount of time. Constantly lifting your thumb up and down has got to be tiring on it.

Like constantly lifting a mouse up when it gets to the edge of the mousepad is tiring? I seriously don't see either being an issue...

I'm impressed. Wonder what kind of settings they'll have for per-game customization of sensitivity.

I'd be disappointed if it was anything less that the Xbox360 controller config, which IIRC lets you adjust the stick sensitivity, add dead zones, etc. I'm betting it will even go beyond that.

I have a strong suspicion they're going to leave much of the configuring to the community, via something akin to the Steam Workshop. Obvious there's no way Valve themselves could program controls for every single PC game out there, so they may as well let fans upload their configs so other players can download and rate them. So unless you're running something pretty rare, chances are somebody else will already have made a controller script you can quickly patch in.

Also, as I said in previous thread, I really hope they make an overlay or something to highlight the cursor. It would be pretty hard to see where you're pointing in Civ V from a couch. Gamepads & trackpads don't have quite the same proprioceptive feel as a mouse.

If you look at the first announcement for the controller, they already said that they gonna let all the configuration to the community.

Whenever I use a controller now I start to ache after such a short time that I have to wonder how I was able to use them for hours at a time in the days of my youth (although maybe the N64 thumbstick created this now shattered person).

With that in mind, I can't imagine using those thumb trackpads for any amount of time. Constantly lifting your thumb up and down has got to be tiring on it.

Like constantly lifting a mouse up when it gets to the edge of the mousepad is tiring? I seriously don't see either being an issue...

If you constantly lift the mouse either you need to change your sensitivity or get a bigger mouse pad...

Considering that for FPS games I have to lift my entire hand to complete a full turn (Yes, precision FPS requires very high DPI mouse and very low sensitivity combined with large swipes of the hand, huge mousepads and constant arm lifting to realign the mouse) I don't mind relative motion for the thumb and actually prefer it, it translates better to the movement I do with mouse rather than throttling with the thumb.

I look at it this way, if I need a gentle nudge to my pointer or crosshair, I would have to gently nudge the analog trigger of a regular gamepad and then return it to the center to make it stop. With this controlelr I just move my finger a little from wherever my thumb is and be done with it. As long as there's a bit of feedback on the trackpad itself, and both the resolution and quality are higher than what one usually finds on notebook trackpads I see this as being ideal for couch playing KB+M games.

Whenever I use a controller now I start to ache after such a short time that I have to wonder how I was able to use them for hours at a time in the days of my youth (although maybe the N64 thumbstick created this now shattered person).

With that in mind, I can't imagine using those thumb trackpads for any amount of time. Constantly lifting your thumb up and down has got to be tiring on it.

Like constantly lifting a mouse up when it gets to the edge of the mousepad is tiring? I seriously don't see either being an issue...

If you constantly lift the mouse either you need to change your sensitivity or get a bigger mouse pad...

You must not play many FPS. Constant hand lifting is pretty common.

Edit:From one of the best twitch FPS gamers out there, you can see constant hand lifting.

This looks good, maybe it doesn't allow for super quick aiming, but that could be the skill of the player. The most interesting part is that he played Civ5 with a controller. I like it, and seeing the prototype in hands is cool too. The controller is smaller than my mind told me when I saw the press release.

Whenever I use a controller now I start to ache after such a short time that I have to wonder how I was able to use them for hours at a time in the days of my youth (although maybe the N64 thumbstick created this now shattered person).

With that in mind, I can't imagine using those thumb trackpads for any amount of time. Constantly lifting your thumb up and down has got to be tiring on it.

Like constantly lifting a mouse up when it gets to the edge of the mousepad is tiring? I seriously don't see either being an issue...

I think it is quite a bit different. A mouse pad maps to my screen at about 1:4 scale instead of 1:64 scale. I can have the sensitivity set way lower on my mouse than that thumbpad will need, and still hardly ever need to pick up my mouse for a game like Civ.

I'm already impressed we can use conventional analog sticks for pretty long periods of time without cramping up--but we're not using them like we use trackpads. You want to spin around in circles with an analog stick? You just push it to the left or right and wait until you're in your desired position and then release it. That's a round trip of the radius of the circle (2*r). With a mini-trackpad you may have to do 2 or 3 full swipes across. Each swipe is a round trip for your thumb across the X axis of the thumbpad x*(2*(2*r)). I can imagine that adding up and causing fatigue or RSI.

And what about Blackberry thumb. You say mousing and thumb-trackpadding would have the same issues. How do you feel about thumb-trackpadding and thumb-typing? Because the latter has affected people. I'd also say it's more similar to what the steam controller will demand, at least for certain types of games.

While I think this is great for translating KB+M to a controller, I feel that there is a huge gap here for games where a joystick is already superior to KB+M such as driving games and platformers. I guess keep a PS/Xbox controller on standby for those games?

Weird, I thought exactly the opposite with relation to driving games: it would be perfect to set one of the pads as a wheel. You steer by tracing the contour of the circles (like moving a steering wheel around) and it resets to the center when you lift your finger. It would allow for some awesome precision, me thinks.

I'm sure you could still turn up the sensitivity if you wanted to. Once you get good with the thing, you might want higher sensitivity when dealing with a pointer so you don't have to pick up your thumb so often.

I agree the aiming in stuff like CS:Go wasn't quite mouse level, but it's a nice jump over typical console controllers. You might not be able to play at a high competitive level, but you can relax on your couch and have a good time for sure. This controller is looking very good right now to me.

One issue though, is how combo-heavy games will play (Street Fighter, Devil May Cry) where you control movement with the left pad, but need quick access to 4 buttons with your right hand. Not sure the current layout really lends itself to that style of game yet.

Whenever I use a controller now I start to ache after such a short time that I have to wonder how I was able to use them for hours at a time in the days of my youth (although maybe the N64 thumbstick created this now shattered person).

With that in mind, I can't imagine using those thumb trackpads for any amount of time. Constantly lifting your thumb up and down has got to be tiring on it.

As opposed to two other fingers on the same hand that hammer away at buttons at a multitude of game genres?

it would be perfect to set one of the pads as a wheel. You steer by tracing the contour of the circles (like moving a steering wheel around) and it resets to the center when you lift your finger. It would allow for some awesome precision, me thinks.

That's a cool idea. The only potential snag is that steering wheels take a moment to reset back to zero, and I'd want some tactile feedback on that.

I know devs have said the trackpads have a velocity-based audible ticking (slow motion = slow ticks, fast motion = fast ticks) for linear thumb movements... so I wonder if the hardware could do the same for elliptical movements. When the clicking noise/mini-vibration stops you know your pad has "dialed" back to zero

Edit: changed "clicking" to "ticking" to distinguish from a button-press

The Steam Community can use the configuration tool to create and share bindings for their favorite games.

Thanks. But Valve didn't specify how those bindings would be shared. So I'm guessing they will use the Steam Workshop, or something very similar. Hopefully gamers can vote and the best bindings quickly rise to the top.

I wonder what it would be like to use this as a controller similar to a standard 4 channel RC transmitter, where the left pad would control throttle/collective and rudder, and the right controls the pitch and yaw. Then you might have some decent flight control capabilities without even a basic joystick, let alone a joystick and throttle device etc.

That last one in particular assuages many of my concerns, because SMB is perhaps the most controller-intensive game I've encountered.

Edit: forgot a comma, misspelled Refenes

Everything I've read about it has been positive...but still said it was worse than the 360 controller...which makes it next to worthless. I'll almost certainly pick one up for myself anyway, just to try it, but I'm not confident Valve have solves all the problems of this type of controller (which has been tried before).