I will hunt out of state with lead. This state is so poorly managed we as hunters must now pay over triple the national average for ammunition to save a bird that is going extinct regardless of how many lead bullets it MAY or MAY NOT eat. I still say this is BS.....

After the DFW completes an EIS that cost hunters millions in license revenues they will figure out that any animal that eats any metal regardless of the compound will most likely dye.

I do not get where you say the ammunition costs are triple the national average. Barnes makes a good product at a very reasonable and competitive price. I bought 40 boxes 4 years ago at around 22$ per box, 20 in 168 and 20 in 180 and each have their same respective lot numbers. I have decided that all my posts on DHC will from now on be helpful or I simply will not post. The Barnes bullets have awesome knockdown power. If you have patience and watch the pricing, they can be purchased as inexpensively as any other ammunition.

Oh Christ, I have no idea what I will use except that it will be over the counter 20 packs of 30-30 and .270. I suppose 150 grain copper ? I have never reloaded rifle as I never shot that much. A few rounds to sight in the scope and 1 or 2 for the meat. I will be interested as well to see what DHC are using in over counter loads. Great post by the way.

"Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go."

I just found some federal trophy copper tipped .308 rounds for around $30. Those are the least expensive lead free I have ever seen. They are on the sportsmans guide website if you want to take a look.

I had the pleasure of working in the condor sanctuary on a cellular site years ago.There is a reason those dumb animals are on the brink of extinction. The stupid birds would not leave us alone on the site. I'm just curious, I have never really gotten into rifle hunting. I get so involved bird hunting. How any rounds do you guys go through in a season?

Two rounds if i have two deer tags. One round if I have one. Three maybe four if you add in a few pig or bear tags. Its nothing like bird hunting, well at least its not suppose to be like birding. The law is horrible and once again only deters hunters from the sport by jacking up the costs. A useless law where the DFW succumbed to the persuasion of special interest.

You know its a BS law when you ask the California DFW wardens what ammo they took out of state to hunt with and they reply with lead. They know its more effective at killing animals and if the intent of the law is to wound less and harvest more go back to lead!

If performance is truly the reason for premium top dollar ammunition, why doesn't law enforcent around the country shoot premium stuff and where does the state get of telling the people who pay their salaries they must shoot premium ammunition.

Law enforcement around the country still shoots bonded lead ammo when it comes time to put someone down!!!!! End of story. They might test the other stuff and dabble with high end ammo a bit out of some super finaccy weapon systems. Now one would think if the super premium ammunition was such a far superior product, these guys would be shooting it, considering they are defending the public and their shootings are often the result of multi million dollar settlements.

Those high end ammo companies have done a great job marketing!

In my experience certain ammo tends to shoot better out of certain guns. But not one brand ALWAYs shoots better. Its more of a guess and match game to find out what truly works best with your firearm. So to say, Hornady, Remmington, Barnes shoot better all the time is completely inaccurate. They may shoot better for certain firearms but not all firearms. And the state shouldn't have the ability to force me or you hunt with a less accurate ammunition.

You can make almost any decent bullet brand shoot good. With enough patience anything is possible. I still shoot a lot of jacketed bullets so don't get me wrong. The one thing I can say about Barnes, Berger and few others is the consistency of the bullet. As far as shooting any of these bullets in a factory loading, I have absolutely zero experience as I reload everything.

And that folks, is exactly why I will never live in California. Your state and a few others are in race to be the first organized communist territory in the US. I truly feel for you guy's that have to endure their ..

I'm in SoCal at least 6-8 times a year and I want to shoot my self every time I get off the airplane.

Colorado is getting just as bad. I used to always get an elk permit there as a little bonus to my Wyoming draws. Now I dread the thought of even driving through it every time i go to Wyoming and no longer buy tags there.

Was in DC this week for a Board of Director's Quarterly Earnings presentation and that's another place that needs a sinkhole.

Its funny you mention Wyoming. I hunted Antelope there this past fall. We shot 115% of our originally drawn tags. 9 animals for 7 hunters. It was cold but worth every minute I spent in the Cowboy State. Im headed back in 2015 and yes I'm shooting lead. My 95 grain .243 knocked the snot out of that goat 315 yards.

Jmorris wrote:I'm in SoCal at least 6-8 times a year and I want to shoot my self every time I get off the airplane.

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"But By God I just love visiting these California hunting forums to let all of you know just how messed up your State is "I'm certainly not a trained phycologist, but I believe there is medical term given for this ailment.

"Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go."

Jmorris wrote:I'm in SoCal at least 6-8 times a year and I want to shoot my self every time I get off the airplane.

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"But By God I just love visiting these California hunting forums to let all of you know just how messed up your State is "I'm certainly not a trained phycologist, but I believe there is medical term given for this ailment.

Sorry, I didn't realize this was in the California forum as I saw the thread in the new posts section. I originally responded with a legitimate answer and got off in a sidebar conversation. Sorry for making you butt hurt. I'll leave your wonderful state section now.

Yep this state is going down hill fast! With all these new laws coming out attacking hunters and gun owners, and all this while the illegal 3rd world "immigrants" in this state are being catered to and costing us hard working Californians $23 billion a year. Then Jerry Brown has the audacity to say that we will take in more "children" from the "border crisis" are you f%$@ing kidding me! My company has a job opening in Cody Wyoming right now that I am seriously considering applying to.

Back on the lead ban topic I usually shoot Berger or Accubonds and I love these bullets, both bullet choices puts animals down right now. I have limited experience with lead free bullets in the Nosler E-tip and to say I am unimpressed would be an understatement. Shot several pigs with that ammo(All heart/lung shots) and everyone of them ran 80+ yards after the shot. I nearly lost one of them and 2 of the 3 were still breathing when I walked up on them requiring a second shot to the head or neck. Might as well have shot them with my bow, at least I would've had a better blood trail to follow. I've heard the Barnes perform better on game which would be a start but I'm still turned off by the horrible ballistics and copper fouling from these all copper bullets.

QuackerSmacker498 wrote:Two rounds if i have two deer tags. One round if I have one. Three maybe four if you add in a few pig or bear tags. Its nothing like bird hunting, well at least its not suppose to be like birding. The law is horrible and once again only deters hunters from the sport by jacking up the costs. A useless law where the DFW succumbed to the persuasion of special interest.

You know its a BS law when you ask the California DFW wardens what ammo they took out of state to hunt with and they reply with lead. They know its more effective at killing animals and if the intent of the law is to wound less and harvest more go back to lead!

So rounds a spent in the field isn't substantial. cost isn't substantial? Rather the complaint is ballistics? I just don't see the number of rounds being shot a big extra expense. Which as a waterfowl hunter I completely understand the ballistics argument. Although the lead argument and No tox is Easyer to make over water.

One of my biggest concerns for others is types or calibers that will be available. I have pretty common rifles but what about the folks with odd calibers ? Your really going to be limited on options . Maybe gun companies want this. You now have to purchase another rifle because your rifle can't be used any more.

Over time, we accept it. Like R12 removed from air conditioners, unleaded fuel, seat belts, tax on candy, day use fees, foreign languages on voting ballots, bad roads, lines in stores, paying for bags, weird supplemental taxes like on paint and lumber, etc, etc.

"Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go."

Beretta, what about small game and varmints? That's where your going to see substantial cost increases to the sportsman. For the big game hunter that discharges a weapon only a few times per there won't be a substantial increase, but the cattle farmer that kills a thousand ground squirrels a year on his private property protecting his livestock and feeding this country, will hurt his pocket book.

Not to mention the limitation of the calibers that are produced in non-toxic shot. Its not like waterfowling where there are only 3-4 recognized calibers of shot shell.

I get the argument for use on public lands (because these are state controlled lands) but now the state says what you and I have to use on our own private lands.

Does anyone know of any other states that are mandated to use non-toxic bullets? You can't tell me that a protected raptor in another state doesn't eat dead animals that may have been killed by a lead bullet.

Again, wasted money by the DFW on an EIS and a deterrent to hunting. I would bet money that the number of condors killed by landing on power poles far out number the condors that die from eating lead shot. When will the state mandatory underground power lines to say the condors.

Alsaka holds the highest number of bald eagles (national protected bird). God only knows how many salmon they eat that contained hooks and fishing line and then eventually die. Again I would venture to say ten times as many (if not more) bald eagles die each year from these hooks and fishing line than any condors in California?

Again a state entity succumbing to special interest and the hunters are paying the price.

In thirty years of hunting I've seen ONE California condor about five years ago way up in Mendocino (B zone). This was before the sate wide ban on lead ammo and it was only specific to the coastal range and central valley area. Where I saw the raptor, was over 100 miles from the lead free zone. I would argue to say the EIS study was hap hazard and a knee jerk reaction to protect the condor.

The California condor is one of the world's rarest bird species: as of May 2013, population counts put the number of known condors at 435, including 237 living in the wild and 198 in captivity. The Tule goose is a large, dark subspecies of the Greater White-fronted Goose. This form breeds just around Cook Inlet in Alaska, and numbers only about 7,500. The Cackling Canada goose was considered extinct until a colony was discovered on Buldir Island in 1962. Since then, the Aleutian cackling goose has made a comeback and was removed from the endangered species list in 2001.

We can whine and complain but the bottom line is that changes have to be made and people need to adapt. Now we see dark geese everywhere. The Condor will recover, like the geese.

"Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go."