I don't see either Irvin nor Carpenter as reaches. With GB and Chi rumored to have taken Carp had we not and the Jets would have taken Irvin, I don't wee how you could think they are reaches when other TEAMS grade them as 1st rounders.

Hawkfan77 wrote:I don't see either Irvin nor Carpenter as reaches. With GB and Chi rumored to have taken Carp had we not and the Jets would have taken Irvin, I don't wee how you could think they are reaches when other TEAMS grade them as 1st rounders.

I put reach in quotation marks because I don't they were reaches either but the experts did and always bash the hawks for thier 1st round picks

Hawkfan77 wrote:I don't see either Irvin nor Carpenter as reaches. With GB and Chi rumored to have taken Carp had we not and the Jets would have taken Irvin, I don't wee how you could think they are reaches when other TEAMS grade them as 1st rounders.

I put reach in quotation marks because I don't they were reaches either but the experts did and always bash the hawks for thier 1st round picks

I kind of doubt it- there is a total lack of consensus from the mid 1st to the mid 2nd. Kawann Short could go 19th overall or he could go 41st overall. DeAndre Hopkins could go top 15 or he could be a 3rd rounder. So unless people just want to be rubes, no, I don't think we'll see a surprise pick that early. Not unless Armonty Bryant starts getting 1st round hype.

Still could see it, right now Glennon or maybe EJ Manuel seems most likely "reach" pick in round one. CB might be another position for a team to reach at, Trufant is a borderline first round talent I think but could he be selected in the top 15? Maybe, only Milliner makes sense that high.

I would also add, the idea of a reach is often misapplied. It's not a reach if you couldn't get him after a trade down. Bruce Irvin and James Carpenter were not reaches because Seattle would have likely lost out on both had they moved down in those drafts.

Also, there is not one draft board which determines who is a reach and who isn't. There are 32 draft boards. And by Seattle's draft board, they are getting what they believe is value on every pick.

I get what you're saying, Kip, but I still voted "Yes" based on how our guys use different criteria than most other teams. Therefore, they've been labelled as reaching in the past, and I expect more of the same.

IAE, it should be an interesting draft.

Talent can get you to the playoffs.It takes character to win when you get there.SUPER BOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS

Russel Wilson was a reach, as was Irvin who was the rookie sacks ledger in a part time role. Wilson should have been OROY. So was Wagner who was a close runner up for DROY. He was cosidered a reach.

If they fit our team and improve it who gives a Ratz rear. JS and PC don't need Kipers approval and do a better job.

Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to completely take the final step. That was done and the final step was taken. The OLine still needs work.

Agree with Jammer. The true draft experts (scouts, coaches, general managers, etc) don't influence this perception as much as Joe Q Blogger and the mainstream media outlets that regurgitate the same tired cliches and hyperbole. So, even if the story of other teams pining over Irvin and Carpenter is true, the average NFL fan that relies on such iconic analysts as Jamie Dukes for information views Pete Carroll (not John Schneider or the Seahawks FO, but Carroll himself) as a clown for reaching for second day talent.

There has of course been some calculated risk passing on players that they felt had higher value, betting they would be there later. Wilson was one of those. The front office had to be talked down from taking him a lot higher.

As far a being called out for reaching... I don't think anyone will want to question the draft that PC/JS put together. I think a lot of pundits learned their lesson last year, and have to continue to eat crow about last years draft. I expect comments like "wow I didn't see that coming but PC/JS have a way of making picks turn to gold." Que the RW, Irvan, Wagner highlights.

"When is the NFL going to start fining receivers for running routes across KAM’S MIDDLE?!?!"-bpup33

While this draft seems to be different in talent level than in years past, I said yes simply because I think our grading system is so much different than what the idiots in the media think. McShay has Woerner going to us at 25. Rang has him to the Raids in the top 5-6?

There is no such thing as a "reach". Not since Pittsburg selected Colorado State quarterback Gary Glickfirst overall after consulting Street & Smiths' college football yearbook.Swear to God, it happenedback in the 1950's. ('56 I think) That was the days of "shoebox" drafting, shoe box full of clippingsand magazines.

CBS and ESPN do not scout for NFL teams. Mike Mayock or Bucky Brooks make many times the salaryof an NFL scout. But, as far as I know, no team asks their opinion while compiling their draft day board.

I'm sure every team could make a compelling case, based on sound reasons, why they selected thisguy and not another. I think Mel Kiper should apply for a trademark of the term "reach".