i dunno. i'm an individual (not corporate) user. and i really like my 7100t. however, i hate the idea of having to self-update. it seems simple enough, but always takes me an hour or so at the computer trying to figure it all out. and i read the posts of all the people who have such problems after trying to update. it makes me want to wait until the next version of the phone comes along and simply buy a new one. sheesh. there should be an easier way - an over the air update (i used to get those when i owned a t-mobile sidekick) or the ability to take it to a t-mobile store and have them update it for you. if RIM wants to continue to market phones to the "average consumer", there will have to be a better way! :-)

corey@12mile

07-03-2005 01:26 PM

Being that RIM has only recently put something on the market for the 'ordinary user', I'd expect something to come along at somepoint. Maybe minor updates/patches will come over the air in the form of a service book type update, but I doubt you will see any kind of major handheld OS push out. Kinda like trying to do an automatic upgrade from Windows 98 to XP or so...

cd.

Rodolfo

07-03-2005 05:54 PM

"Average User" with my first BB reporting here: FWIW, I didn't have to do it myself -at least not by myself. I called someone (at either BB or T-M) to activate my phone when I purchased it at the end of March and I asked the person to walk me through the 4.0 update (4.0.0.198 )-which I had heard about from all the fine people on this forum :smile: . I think he asked me to call from my home landline, but in any event, it went smoothly. He was patient and stayed until the last step which I think took a while. He asked me some questions qbout what I was seeing and he said he was confident it had worked, but to just call back if I had any problems. Maybe it's only at the purchase and activation point that they help(ed), or maybe it was when 4.0 was newer? Anyway, things have worked quite smoothly -this is the stablest device I've ever owned- and I haven't had any need to call back since. I would have gone to the local T-M store if that guy hadn't helped me. They're always very helpful and by now I know who to ask there. There are 2 or 3 people that have been there since I switched to T-M almost 3 years ago and they're part of what has kept me with them out of contract for 2 years. The other part is that the competition out there has been so boring -almost as boring as at T-M itself. :razz:

ainvar

07-03-2005 07:56 PM

I prefer to do my own updates instead of having them automactically pushed down to my device. I like to know what is going on my phone as much as possible incase I dont need what the update has to offer or if downgrading is a needed option for my needs. I feel the more people want it done for them takes away from the rest of us who likes to have control in our loves and the property we own.

I dont find it all that hard to do an upgrade I read the directions (if needed) and follow the steps, I dont find it that hard as long as you pay attention and follow the instructions. I dont even allow my xp machine to pull down auto updates I do them myself both at home and at work. I do have a wsus server that I use to push it out the machines I have to support since I know what is going on them.

I feel that way too many people want every little thing done for them and it is taking away the ability to do them yourself like it should be.

Sorry this hit a sore spot for me and this is not a bash of any kind, it is just me spilling out my toughts on the subject.

jibi

07-03-2005 09:20 PM

seriously, think about the support calls they have with people's phones being trashed because of a malformed forced upgrade. thats ridiculous. as for it being OTA, when EDGE or something of the like comes out AND when there is more memory (64MB and more), then perhaps that'd be something to think about. right now, even with 32MB of memory, there is not enough to load into memory the upgraded software and then install it (would require no less than 35MB).

dkhanal

07-03-2005 09:53 PM

I am with ainvar - I want to control my device...not my phone company...its mine...not theirs...I pay for their service. As far as the difficulty in updating the device goes...its not difficult...if you just read the instruction and know what you are doing! Being a lazy bum and have someone else bring the spoon to your mouth doesn't help in todays world!
(No Offence of any kind intended)

Dkhanal

indivijewell

07-03-2005 10:48 PM

self updating sux

I did it today. self-updating sucks AND blows simultaneously. You'd think that such savvy gadgetry would not take so many steps to update. i have no clue what was actually updated, and i'll probably never use it anyway.

jibi

07-03-2005 11:01 PM

1) plug in phone
2) download and install software to PC
3) in step 2, check mark the box to open desktop manager
4) click update now
5) wait until it finishes

when you are prompted to 'update now' it tells you what all is going to be updated.

i don't see how that is hard nor do i see how it is many steps.

theatreguy

07-04-2005 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ainvar

I feel that way too many people want every little thing done for them and it is taking away the ability to do them yourself like it should be.

Sorry this hit a sore spot for me and this is not a bash of any kind, it is just me spilling out my toughts on the subject.

I like how you bash and then say "this is not a bash". you generalize: i do not want every little thing done for me. in my field i am quite capable and self-sufficient. read my post carefully: I am NOT an enterprise user. i said if RIM/T-mobile want to market a BlackBerry phone to the casual user, they need to make it USABLE for the casual user. I thought the 7100 was the BlackBerry for the masses, one for which you need little technical knowledge. I am very skilled in many areas...taking an hour to backup and update my Blackberry according to a (for me) complicated set of instructions is not a skill I want to acquire. Perhaps Blackberry should give us an auto update or a self-update. To each his own. That would have been a better response to my post.

indivijewell

07-04-2005 12:16 PM

very well said, theatreguy...i have a life, pardon me if i dont want to waste an hour self-updating my phone, jibi. there was software to download from the T-Mo website prior to "plugging in your phone".

corey@12mile

07-04-2005 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indivijewell

very well said, theatreguy...i have a life, pardon me if i dont want to waste an hour self-updating my phone, jibi. there was software to download from the T-Mo website prior to "plugging in your phone".

Do you have something that automatically cooks for you 3 times a day, every day? How about cleaning your house? or doing you laundry? I have a bit of a life too, but I still have time to maintain my stuff... I do my own oil changes too. I fix my own house, cut my own grass.

For the amount of handheld updates, maybe once a year, what's the big deal? There is nothing forcing you to update your handheld firmware.

I don't think of myself as a baby. I don't think I need everything spoonfed to me. I think I can take care of most things myself. Maybe that is why I answer peoples questions on here instead of ***** about things I don't like or am too lazy to do.

cd.

theatreguy

07-04-2005 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corey@12mile

Do you have something that automatically cooks for you 3 times a day, every day? How about cleaning your house? or doing you laundry? I have a bit of a life too, but I still have time to maintain my stuff... I do my own oil changes too. I fix my own house, cut my own grass.

For the amount of handheld updates, maybe once a year, what's the big deal? There is nothing forcing you to update your handheld firmware.

I don't think of myself as a baby. I don't think I need everything spoonfed to me. I think I can take care of most things myself. Maybe that is why I answer peoples questions on here instead of ***** about things I don't like or am too lazy to do.

cd.

cd, not to flame war with you but no, i'm not a "blackberry encyclopedia" as you term yourself. you seem to enjoy technology and answering folks' questions about it. i'm sure it's appreciated. but i don't change my own oil or cut my own grass. and when I buy a "plug and play" phone, as it were, i expect it to work and not require my own time installing an update two months later to fix bugs. yes, if it were billed as a "Phone for Experienced BlackBerry users" or as a phone wherein Enterprise tech people would handle all updates, fine. but the 7100 is billed as a phone for EVERYDAY users. that's my problem. i'm not lazy. you're reading more into what i wrote and generalizing way too much about the rest of my life.

In your earlier post you wrote:
"Being that RIM has only recently put something on the market for the 'ordinary user', I'd expect something to come along at somepoint." That's an extremely intelligent statement and I hope you're right. :-)

ainvar

07-04-2005 09:50 PM

My blackberry is mine along not my works, I have a life (a very busy one at that) and I can take the time to update my blackberry. It is not difficult, if you find pluggin in your phone and installing software is difficult then maybe you need a nokia 5190 phone. I hear they are great and guess what no updates are required.

The steps that jibi wrote down and straight and to the point. My wife can update her phone and she is not even tech savy. My 10 month son could prolly do it also.

I dont see what is so difficult or time consuming. I know you spend more than an hour of time at your computer at any given time in the day. How hard is it to multitask and do an update?

If you want a phone that updates over the air and does it automactically then buy a sidekick II. They are pretty easy to operate and does not take any downloading on your part to do an update. You just cant use your phone for over an hour since they are doing it for you over the air automactically.

I still dont understand how hard and time consuming this is? Even without instructions I find it pretty easy.

Also speaking of not changing your oil or mowing your own lawm more power to you guy!! I know how to do all the above cause it is something I wanted to learn and say I know how to do instead of having to rely on somebody else to do it.

I dont want somebody to cook my own meals, wash me, clean my house, pay my bills, do my taxes, tell me what I can and cant watch on tv, change my cd for me, and update my phone cause I either find it difficult or use the I have a life attitude.

This is not a bash this is simple statement made due to the replies I seen in this thread. I just dont understand the lazy attitude about updating a phone and hiding behind the it is just to hard to do. if they made it any easier the thing will reply to your emails for you and also tell you how your soda taste so you dont have to even worry about picking it up to drink it.

jibi

07-04-2005 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indivijewell

very well said, theatreguy...i have a life, pardon me if i dont want to waste an hour self-updating my phone, jibi. there was software to download from the T-Mo website prior to "plugging in your phone".

Covered in step 2 - Download and install software to PC.

My downtime usually comes on Sunday afternoons (no, I do not attend church) or late at night (when no one calls). Its very easy to start up the process and walk away (heck, go take a shower or watch the news).

Simply put, with some things, automatic updates are quite reasonable and convenient for some things. I do have a certain level of appreciation for things that can make my day more productive (heck, I'm in an industry that prides itself on such a solution), however there are simply some things that should require a person's interaction and attention... this is one of those.

jibi

07-04-2005 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theatreguy

cd, not to flame war with you but no, i'm not a "blackberry encyclopedia" as you term yourself.

that is a level-based nametag that was set by the administrators of this forum; corey did not put that himself (same goes for me).

Quote:

Originally Posted by theatreguy

i don't change my own oil or cut my own grass.

i would never dream of doing either. i don't even wash my own clothes or cook for myself. i was brought up in a household where i never had to do anything for myself, as i always had some sort of staff member to do those things for me. unforunately, i never learned how to do anything, so i pay people to do things for me (with cooking, i simply eat out or eat sandwiches).

but using all of these as analogies leads us to think that one would pay someone to update their phone for them. they'd still be without their phone (just as you are without your clothes for washing or your car during an oil change).

Quote:

Originally Posted by theatreguy

when I buy a "plug and play" phone, as it were, i expect it to work and not require my own time installing an update two months later to fix bugs.

smartphones are going to have bugs, and they are going to have issues that need to be fixed. this is a reality that should have been found during researching prior to making a purchase for a new toy (i'm sure you look at gas mileage prior to purchasing a car, correct?). during the old days of Nokia or Motorola phones, if there was a software issue with the phone, it simply never got updated and you had to deal with it (or you had to take your phone into the store to have its ROM flashed with an update for the issue, assuming there would have ever been one made). That is available with most vendors, if you'd prefer them do it rather than you, although I would think that the 'too busy' aspect of your lives would play a part in that (but hey, you can get your oil changed in the car).

Quote:

Originally Posted by theatreguy

In your earlier post you wrote:
"Being that RIM has only recently put something on the market for the 'ordinary user', I'd expect something to come along at somepoint." That's an extremely intelligent statement and I hope you're right. :-)

Until RIM increase the built-in memory (or allow for SD memory slots) -and- until the various provider rollouts of EDGE, EVDO or some 3G/4G networks are available, then you will be spending more time downloading a 15-18MB update to your phone than it would take to even THINK about updating it manually. I would say that this is atleast 1 year off from being a glimpse of reality (and around 2 years to be more realistic), imo.

corey@12mile

07-05-2005 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theatreguy

cd, not to flame war with you but no, i'm not a "blackberry encyclopedia" as you term yourself. you seem to enjoy technology and answering folks' questions about it. i'm sure it's appreciated. but i don't change my own oil or cut my own grass. and when I buy a "plug and play" phone, as it were, i expect it to work and not require my own time installing an update two months later to fix bugs. yes, if it were billed as a "Phone for Experienced BlackBerry users" or as a phone wherein Enterprise tech people would handle all updates, fine. but the 7100 is billed as a phone for EVERYDAY users. that's my problem. i'm not lazy. you're reading more into what i wrote and generalizing way too much about the rest of my life.

In your earlier post you wrote:
"Being that RIM has only recently put something on the market for the 'ordinary user', I'd expect something to come along at somepoint." That's an extremely intelligent statement and I hope you're right. :-)

^^^ What jibi said!

Either way, I could see an occasional opt-in mailing list or something for updates where it gives you a URL to click on and it loads an activex component simular to windows update to update the handheld.

cd.

indivijewell

07-06-2005 10:19 PM

corey, i DID answer the question. whats your point? most of the things you named, no i do not do myself. why do something that i can happily have someone else do for me. maybe i pay for it, maybe i dont. there is waaayyy too much hostility here....BTW it took me an extended tim to reply (again) because I have a life. one that is NOT connected to a PC of any sort...i switched to a blackberry from a sidekick. yes, with a sidekick you still had to allow the OTA updates to complete. however, you not NEED to be at a PC to do so. i thought i was upgrading with the blackberry, but if it takes more work on my part for it to operate correctly, it is more of a setback for me.

jbairdjr

07-06-2005 10:36 PM

I think what you may be missing is the fact that the update files are several megabytes in size. Right now, there is no network that will download this OTA in any reasonable time.
And, realistically, it takes 5 minutes to start the update. Not a big deal, no matter how busy we get.

ainvar

07-07-2005 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indivijewell

corey, i DID answer the question. whats your point? most of the things you named, no i do not do myself. why do something that i can happily have someone else do for me. maybe i pay for it, maybe i dont. there is waaayyy too much hostility here....BTW it took me an extended tim to reply (again) because I have a life. one that is NOT connected to a PC of any sort...i switched to a blackberry from a sidekick. yes, with a sidekick you still had to allow the OTA updates to complete. however, you not NEED to be at a PC to do so. i thought i was upgrading with the blackberry, but if it takes more work on my part for it to operate correctly, it is more of a setback for me.

Again I have a life also, A fulltime job, a wife and a son. I still find time to do everything in my busy life to set a side a few minutes to do a simple upgrade that is not difficult. Hiding behind the excuse I have a life is like hiding behind the excuse of well the car can do 240mph why cant I drive it like that. Buying a faster car and cant drive it fast due to speed limit is like downgrading then. I based this off how you compare a blackberry to a sidekick. Totally diffrent technology to say the least and a completely diffrent back infrastructure.

I have a life a very busy life but I can still find the time to start a download, hook up blackberry, start upgrade, do other things, and then go check on it from time to time. It is not a hard thing to do IF you KNOW how to manage your time wisely.

I am sure everyone here does not live near or at a PC, I sure dont but I do have access to them most of the time or a way to get on the internet cause it is my choice to have this in my busy life.

The hostility you see is due to really bad thoughtout excuses put forth to do such a simple task. I really dont understand the reasoning behind it cause I see it almost everywhere I go. I see people waste more time making excuses about why they dont have time to do something cause they have a life then to just do it and get it over with. I see people waste more time trying to find a way out of doing something than to just do it and get it over with.

All this wasted energy and time in a person busy life takes away the time you would have to do something if you just actually did it.

corey@12mile

07-07-2005 09:45 AM

ainvar,

I am glad to see someone else who does things for themself. Isn't it amazing people become a member on a forum and have time to read and reply to posts, but not the few minutes it takes to update their handheld.

I understand the 5 or 10 minutes a year it takes to start a blackberry update cuts into peoples lifes a lot eh. I know... I work a full time job, plus I do many other side jobs for friends and clients. I have a wife, 2 kids, 1 more on the way.

And with all that I can still learn enough to answer most questions people ask here... how do I do it? I keep myself organized, I know when to stop something and move on to something else.