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I have a question for the "grown ups" section of TLS - Legal Employment. Currently I attend a T2 on long island (I'm sure you can guess) and recently landed a sweet class ranking... 3/350, or top 1%. I am considering transferring but my main consideration for transferring is my employment prospects, so that's why I'm here. I realize that this question also deals with transferring but I feel this is the more appropriate forum because what I'm principally concerned with is the impact on employment.

What I need to know from the TLS wisdom-bank is whether or not I stand a better chance in landing a V10, 25, 50, whatever SA w/offer where I am or if I transfer to CLS/NYU and accumulate an additional 60K in debt. Although there are many less concrete reasons for me considering transferring, employment and debt is at the top of my list.

Obviously, if I could know with certainty that I could land the same SA at, let's call it SulCrom/Latham/RopesGray from my current T2 and graduate with ~$50k in debt, then i'm looking at very nice student loan payments around $500/month. The problem is that only 1 of those firms interviews at my school (Ropes). I can try to obtain an interview on my own at the other places, which my school leads to me to believe is very possible. If I transfer, I'll have payments around $2200/mo for 5 years to pay down around $110k.

Of course, if I transfer, I will have more interviews for NYC V100 SAs, probably somewhere around 20-25 interview. If I stay, I should have around 10-15 interviews total from OCI and my own means. I am reasonably personable with interesting things on my resume and can carry on a conversation, so I expect to be slightly above average interviewing.

So, what makes sense for me?

And, if the employment issue is moot because of my ranking and proximity to the firms, is there a reason to transfer (from employment perspective) if I could be CERTAIN that I would have the same SA at either school? Basically, will the name on my diploma have a significant impact for jobs down the line after working at BigLawFirm X?

Anonymous User wrote:I have a question for the "grown ups" section of TLS - Legal Employment. Currently I attend a T2 on long island (I'm sure you can guess) and recently landed a sweet class ranking... 3/350, or top 1%. I am considering transferring but my main consideration for transferring is my employment prospects, so that's why I'm here. I realize that this question also deals with transferring but I feel this is the more appropriate forum because what I'm principally concerned with is the impact on employment.

What I need to know from the TLS wisdom-bank is whether or not I stand a better chance in landing a V10, 25, 50, whatever SA w/offer where I am or if I transfer to CLS/NYU and accumulate an additional 60K in debt. Although there are many less concrete reasons for me considering transferring, employment and debt is at the top of my list.

Obviously, if I could know with certainty that I could land the same SA at, let's call it SulCrom/Latham/RopesGray from my current T2 and graduate with ~$50k in debt, then i'm looking at very nice student loan payments around $500/month. The problem is that only 1 of those firms interviews at my school (Ropes). I can try to obtain an interview on my own at the other places, which my school leads to me to believe is very possible. If I transfer, I'll have payments around $2200/mo for 5 years to pay down around $110k.

Of course, if I transfer, I will have more interviews for NYC V100 SAs, probably somewhere around 20-25 interview. If I stay, I should have around 10-15 interviews total from OCI and my own means. I am reasonably personable with interesting things on my resume and can carry on a conversation, so I expect to be slightly above average interviewing.

So, what makes sense for me?

And, if the employment issue is moot because of my ranking and proximity to the firms, is there a reason to transfer (from employment perspective) if I could be CERTAIN that I would have the same SA at either school? Basically, will the name on my diploma have a significant impact for jobs down the line after working at BigLawFirm X?

(please note that I have not been accepted anywhere yet.)

As an 0L, take my advice with a grain of salt. But if I were in your shoes I'd apply to NYU, CLS, Harvard and Yale and go to the best school that takes you. I know the debt is imposing, but you're obviously a terrific student, will likely get a cushy SA and subsequent biglaw job, and will be able to afford to pay the loans off. Are you not even going to send an app to HY? How come? I know it is exceedingly rare for T2s to transfer to them but top 1% is would be the exception i'd imagine.

OP, I was in considerably the same situation as you last year (6/~250 at a T40-50). If I could do it again I'd have explored transferring instead of staying put, but PM me if you want my take.

As an 0L, take my advice with a grain of salt. But if I were in your shoes I'd apply to NYU, CLS, Harvard and Yale and go to the best school that takes you. I know the debt is imposing, but you're obviously a terrific student, will likely get a cushy SA and subsequent biglaw job, and will be able to afford to pay the loans off. Are you not even going to send an app to HY? How come? I know it is exceedingly rare for T2s to transfer to them but top 1% is would be the exception i'd imagine.

Even though I just told you to transfer, posts like this are why 0Ls shouldn't answer questions in the Employment forum. I recall some of ToTransferOrNot's comments about receiving straight up hostility from interviewers for being a transfer student during his OCI. It's not nearly as risk-free as this clueless 0L makes it out to be...

As an 0L, take my advice with a grain of salt. But if I were in your shoes I'd apply to NYU, CLS, Harvard and Yale and go to the best school that takes you. I know the debt is imposing, but you're obviously a terrific student, will likely get a cushy SA and subsequent biglaw job, and will be able to afford to pay the loans off. Are you not even going to send an app to HY? How come? I know it is exceedingly rare for T2s to transfer to them but top 1% is would be the exception i'd imagine.

As an 0L, take my advice with a grain of salt. But if I were in your shoes I'd apply to NYU, CLS, Harvard and Yale and go to the best school that takes you. I know the debt is imposing, but you're obviously a terrific student, will likely get a cushy SA and subsequent biglaw job, and will be able to afford to pay the loans off. Are you not even going to send an app to HY? How come? I know it is exceedingly rare for T2s to transfer to them but top 1% is would be the exception i'd imagine.

0Ls shouldn't answer questions in the Employment forum.

FTFY

If you have to preface your post with "as a 0L, take my advice with a grain of salt", then it is a sign you should not be posting on this particular topic. I will once again advocate for a color-coded system on this site in which the font color of your username corresponds to your status (i.e. 0L, 1L, 2L, etc.). If mods can be purple, then we can make this work somehow. Would terminate a lot of confusion (sort of like the "0L effect" whenever someone is choosing between ranking and scholarship). It would make it much easier to sift through information because it could be easily determined who that info is coming from. Or just make 0L's a certain color. They are the only ones who we need to be able to tell apart.

FTFY[/quotIf you have to preface your post with "as a 0L, take my advice with a grain of salt", then it is a sign you should not be posting on this particular topic. I will once again advocate for a color-coded system on this site in which the font color of your username corresponds to your status (i.e. 0L, 1L, 2L, etc.). If mods can be purple, then we can make this work somehow. Would terminate a lot of confusion (sort of like the "0L effect" whenever someone is choosing between ranking and scholarship). It would make it much easier to sift through information because it could be easily determined who that info is coming from. Or just make 0L's a certain color. They are the only ones who we need to be able to tell apart.

yes, because the spreading of misinformation by uninformed individuals is a great thing.

Nothing i said was misinformation. If he were to transfer to CLS or NYU, and do well, he would have a significant advantage over everyone else in NY in terms of getting biglaw. Based on his great 1st year, I think he should be confident in his ability to do well.

The pathetic aspect of all of you behavior is how pavlovian you have all become in ripping 0Ls. I literally said nothing controversial- just gave an honest opinion while outting myself as not an authority on the issue. Yet you all saw "I'm an 0L" and jumped on it in a variety of uncreative aand unimaginative ways. I'd be angry at how caustic and sad you are if I didn't pity you so much.

I'm a 0L, so feel free to ignore this. But I have a relevant personal anecdote...

One of my closest friends was almost exactly where you are right now (except he was at a NYC T2). Apparently every "biglaw" lawyer he spoke with told him to transfer up because they couldn't be certain that their firm would take even top students from his T2 and that doing OCI there would be a crapshoot for the tip-top firms. IIRC he also worked in the foreign office of a biglaw firm his 1L summer, but it might have just been a foreign affiliate.

We chatted about things a lot when he was going through the transfer process. The gist of his reasoning was that he could have probably gotten a market job of some sort at his T2, but that it might not have been with a top firm and that his options would probably have been greatly reduced.

He ended up going to NYU and did quite well at OCI, scoring multiple offers with V10 firms and ended up choosing one that fit neatly with what he wanted to practice (and he's currently getting his soul crushed, but that's another story. . . ).

YMMV, but I suggest chatting with some folk who work in large law firms, and preferably chatting with some hiring partners if you can find 'em.

@rocon7383. Anytime someone says "you're obviously a terrific student, will likely get a cushy SA and subsequent biglaw job" to a student who would be transferring, it is terrible advice. People who are not 0Ls have seen plenty of instances of transfer students at top schools striking out. If I gave such terrible advice I would deserve equal criticism. But because 0Ls have not been around TLS and/or lawschool, they generally do not have the background to offer useful, informed opinions. exactly like your statement about how the OP has a "cushy job on lock."

Apply to a couple of places, get in, bring said acceptances to whatever dean that determines scholarships and see if you can get more $$$$. If they act like assholes about it, leave and don't look back.

But neither transferring nor not transferring make you a "lock" for OCI. Expect to mass mail and work your ass off to get a job, whether you leave or stay put.

Whether you transfer or not you're interviewing with the same grades from the same T2. I think you'll have a good shot at a biglaw SA either way with those grades, or at least you'll have roughly the same shot at one whether you transfer or not. Transferring may improve your long term prospects, especially if you want any chance at doing things like academia (although this is an outside chance from any school)

2LLLL wrote:Even though I just told you to transfer, posts like this are why 0Ls shouldn't answer questions in the Employment forum. I recall some of ToTransferOrNot's comments about receiving straight up hostility from interviewers for being a transfer student during his OCI. It's not nearly as risk-free as this clueless 0L makes it out to be...

I wonder if ToTransferOrNot was in the NYC market though? My impression is that no one in NYC expects you to be loyal to a T2 when you have a chance to go to a top school. I can only speak from anecdote, of course, but every T2 to top 6 transfer I know (5 in all) got a biglaw SA. None of them ever mentioned getting hostility from interviewers. I've also been asked more than once in interviews why I DIDN'T transfer.

Of course, it seems like almost all the people in their grade range who stayed at the T2 got biglaw (or clerkships) as well -- we're talking about roughly top 5%.

My advice is to transfer if you can. Although you might get biglaw out of your T2, your interview options are greatly expanded by having access to a non pre-screened OCI. No interviewer is going to be upset because you transfer.

If you fail to get a biglaw SA, you are also going to be in a better position coming out of a T6 than a T2. There is no guarantee you are going to stay at the top of your class. One bad grade can ruin everything.