jgreenberg01 wrote:Wait, he wasn't high on cookies in all those running & gunning vids?!?!?
We're all doomed...

Just had a thought (mainly cuz blue hates this topic) when zombie day hits, ensure you have a supply of white chocolate & macadamia nut cookies. Before the phone lines go dead, let him know that you have some for him & all he has to do is get there.
When he does get there, let him have the cookies & turn him loose :laugh: zombies wouldn't stand a chance :lmao:

But we're getting way off topic with that & I realized I didn't post my opinion in this thread (although it is posted in the linked threads).
SA - cocked, & locked
DA - chambered, & usually hammer down.

I recommend chambered when carrying for all those previously listed reasons but I don't fault people for deciding against it. Personal choice, go with what you are comfortable with.Even if it is the wrong choice :p

In that video, even with a round chambered she is likely DEAD! his second knife thrust hit her under her armpit and looked like close to the artery. Without medical treatment QUICKLY she could bleed out. Just goes to show you never let someone that close to you.

I carry my G30 chambered and ready to go and like the idea of training to move when a threat is assessed to increase their distance and slow them down by having to react to their target. Practicing that is the only way to prevent an attack similar to what that woman faced in that video. Rocks and cookiez are another great idea :p

Yes, there are certainly some very good arguments being made that support the option of a round in the chamber, but also consider this:

It is nearly unanimous among concealed CCW individuals that the last thing they want to do is shoot someone. So in a life or death situation, an individual must still do all they can to avoid discharging their firearm. That being said, it would be valid to say that just merely drawing any firearm (cocked or not cocked) would have an immediate psychological effect on the offender. Note that the weapon focus effect is a well-documented psychological phenomenon. The mere presence of a weapon is enough to end conflicts in some cases, not all of course.

Raveren wrote:Yes, there are certainly some very good arguments being made that support the option of a round in the chamber, but also consider this:

It is nearly unanimous among concealed CCW individuals that the last thing they want to do is shoot someone. So in a life or death situation, an individual must still do all they can to avoid discharging their firearm. That being said, it would be valid to say that just merely drawing any firearm (cocked or not cocked) would have an immediate psychological effect on the offender. Note that the weapon focus effect is a well-documented psychological phenomenon. The mere presence of a weapon is enough to end conflicts in some cases, not all of course.

Coming from a person (me) who's had to draw their weapon and NOT shoot, I wouldn't bet on the gun stopping a fight simply by it being present. EVER! You are gambling with your life, potentially, and if you're that lucky all the time, you might not even need to carry a gun. ;-)

My situation escalated rather slowly... and by slowly, I mean over about 20 seconds. He'd expressed his willingness to "kill me" from distance, had the means necessary to do so (tire iron) and was eye locked with me as he approached. I drew my gun to low ready as he made his approach and he didn't even see it. He was so focused on my eyes and his own rage that he simply didn't see it. Once the gun was brought up to eye level and the safety flicked off, I was already applying pressure to the trigger when he finally saw it. Things changed rapidly for him. He dropped the tire iron and became VERY compliant.

Had I needed to rack a round at that point, it'd have been lights out for me. I'm not willing to count on a crazy, rage filled person to "notice" the gun. I had every intent (and legal precedent) to drop his ass with a bang and a flash, but the situation changed and so did my decision. Self defense situations are fluid and change over time, but I most definitely want time on my side... not theirs.

You're mileage may vary, but when we have to deal in fractions of a second, I'm not willing to give the bad guy any time advantage.

He's lucky you had the timing to wait. I can say for sure that if a perp is within 10-15 FT (feet not yards) and is advancing with a weapon, I'm shooting.
Gotta do what makes you comfortable OP but I wish you all the best and hope for those
extra seconds you may need if SHTF

Raveren wrote:Yes, there are certainly some very good arguments being made that support the option of a round in the chamber, but also consider this:

It is nearly unanimous among concealed CCW individuals that the last thing they want to do is shoot someone. So in a life or death situation, an individual must still do all they can to avoid discharging their firearm. That being said, it would be valid to say that just merely drawing any firearm (cocked or not cocked) would have an immediate psychological effect on the offender. Note that the weapon focus effect is a well-documented psychological phenomenon. The mere presence of a weapon is enough to end conflicts in some cases, not all of course.

The whole reason we're carrying is "what if...?" So consider this, what if it doesn't?

Are you willing to bet your life and/or that of your loved ones that you can rack the slide in an adrenaline filled situation?

I've been in a couple of adrenaline filled situations in my time (car accidents, attacks, sharks, etc...) & I can tell you this, usually I have only one thought in the time it takes for that to happen. My attention is focused on dealing with what is coming at me immediately & not on manipulating something so that I can maybe deal with it if it doesn't go away.

Now, if you train that way all the time <very important step>, then you might have a chance, IF you have the extra second.

PS, there is also documented proof that actually firing a gun doesn't always end a conflict.

Here is another drill. In a controlled environment (range), using snap cap ammo, with someone timing you draw and fire your weapon with a dummy round chambered. Do this 10 times. Then perform the same drill without a round chambered, having to rack the slide. Firstly, you will be amazed at how long it takes to rack the slide. It interferes with the entire process of drawing the weapon and bringing it to a ready position. Secondly, it brings the weak hand into play. Where the weak hand should be totally out of the picture until it is brought onto the pistol in the straight out motion to the ready position, the tendency when racking the slide is to bring that hand up and out the same time the draw takes place inviting a really dangerous situation. Also keep in mind, that you cannot shoot from a lower position on your body when having to rack the slide. In the drill I mentioned earlier, we shot as soon as the weapon cleared the holster and was pointed at the target. You cannot rack the slide and perform that maneuver. Ir was a part of the training because it could save your life. I have been taught in every class I have attended that a firearm without a round in the chamber is not a firearm.

flyingirish04 wrote:I just looked it up. IF you have a valid CCL or reciprocal CCL, there is not a single law that precludes you from carrying a loaded, chambered weapon.

I realize that, but what I am saying is response to this post:

The Keymaster wrote:I have been taught in every class I have attended that a firearm without a round in the chamber is not a firearm.

All I meant was just because there isn't a round in the chamber, that does not preclude it from being a firearm.

Personally Key, I agree that a practical CCW should be chambered. But far be it from me to denounce anyone else's educated opinion about it. All we can do is provide the facts & hope other people learn.

Also, ask any idiot who was "sure" the gun wasn't loaded & it "just went off" - it's still a firearm :laugh:

This thread has made me laugh. Since I am in IL the only without CCW I can only carry a gun unloaded and cased. Now the case can be a fanny pack but the gun still can't be loaded. So yes I carry without one in the chamber.

Although to throw some gas on the fire.

The Israeli's carry practice is with the chamber empty and they don't seem to have any issues shooting vest bombers in the head before they can set off the bomb or shooting crazed Palestinians rampaging in giant earth movers.

1. if you train as much as the isreali military does, go ahead carry like they do
2. if you think that a BG will allow you to call a time out so you can rack your weapon, you deserve to die.
3. in a gun fight he who puts lead on the other guy first usually wins.
4. you can do as you please but to advocate not carrying with a round in the chamber is IMHO foolish, all you are carrying in that condition is a heavy paperweight

Uhh, panzer, I think comparing U.S. CCW to Israeli citizens is a bit different. Doesn't EVERYBODY in Israel carry concealed? Teachers, mailmen, rabbis,...everybody? So...regardless of whether there is a round in the chamber or not, SOMEBODY is gonna take that bomber out.