Gamer-friendly PC publisher Stardock (Sins of a Solar Empire) has released what it is terming the "Gamer’s Bill of Rights" at PAX.

The company calls the document:

...a statement of principles that it hopes will encourage the PC game industry to adopt standards that are more supportive of PC gamers. The document contains 10 specific “rights” that video game enthusiasts can expect from Stardock as an independent developer and publisher that it hopes that other publishers will embrace...

the objective of the Gamer’s Bill of Rights is to increase the confidence of consumers of the quality of PC games which in turn will lead to more sales and a better gaming experience.

Of the Bill of Rights, Stardock CEO Brad Wardell commented:

As an industry, we need to begin setting some basic, common sense standards that reward PC gamers for purchasing our games. The console market effectively already has something like this in that its games have to go through the platform maker such as Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony. But on the PC, publishers can release games that are scarcely completed, poorly supported, and full of intrusive copy protection and then be stuck on it.

Chris Taylor, CEO and founder of Gas Powered Games, expressed support for the Bill of Rights, which Stardock enumerates as:

Gamers shall have the right to return games that don’t work with their computers for a full refund.

Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game’s release.

Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.

Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won’t install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.

Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

GP: While this would more properly be termed the PC Gamer's Bill of Rights, we have to say, Bravo, Stardock!

Comments

I don't buy this gamers bill of rights. Stardock pulled all my CD keys with them(admittedly only 1 game) because someone in their staff screwed up and gave my account a copy of the demigod beta release. So I donwloaded it and played it. I didn't like it so I never played it again. Now when I log back into their system my CD keys have been invalidated and my Account password was changed to "Fraud". But i admit the sense of humour was bang on. I have every intention of avoiding their products regardless of what they say.

I don't buy this gamers bill of rights. Stardock pulled all my CD keys with them(admittedly only 1 game) because someone in their staff screwed up and gave my account a copy of the demigod beta release. So I donwloaded it and played it. I didn't like it so I never played it again. Now when I log back into their system my CD keys have been invalidated and my Account password was changed to "Fraud". But i admit the sense of humour was bang on. I have every intention of avoiding their products regardless of what they say.

I don't buy this gamers bill of rights. Stardock pulled all my CD keys with them(admittedly only 1 game) because someone in their staff screwed up and gave my account a copy of the demigod beta release. So I donwloaded it and played it. I didn't like it so I never played it again. Now when I log back into their system my CD keys have been invalidated and my Account password was changed to "Fraud". But i admit the sense of humour was bang on. I have every intention of avoiding their products regardless of what they say.

I think this is a great step in the right direction for the PC Gaming industry, but I have a problem with the last ammendment to the bill, which states "Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play." I believe that this is not in the best interest of the PC Gaming Industry, the developers, or the integrity of the PC gaming community, because it is an open invite to piracy, I do not see any other reason to allow the gamers the right not to require a CD in order to play it, other than the fact that they can now give their CD's to thier friends so they can play without purchasing the game itself, or so that gamers are limited to only the computer that the game is registered under. If a CD is requred to play a game that is saved to the hard drive, then players are not limited to one computer, or able to give the game to all of their friends to play. I say gamers should be required to use the CD in order to play the game, just like any other console gamer.

"Rights" 1, 9 and 10 would ENHANCE piracy, killing game sales. If I have to authenticate a single player game to ensure it sells more copies, SIGN ME UP. How many cheapskate losers would take their game back after they finished under the false pretenses of "It doesnt work on my PC..."

But when I went into my local EBGames to get the expansion for TES: Oblivion, the manager was working the till, and he said, "Oh, you shouldn't have to buy this. Don't you have a friend who you can borrow the DVD from?"

I gave him a level look, and said, "Yeah, but I have ethical issues with that."

He shrugged, said, "It's only a level add-on, but whatever," and reluctantly rang me through.

Jagged Alliance 2 Gold - Sold on steam does not work as intended. Its a broken game, with a game-crashing bug thats unavoidable. If you purchase the game on steam, there is no way to fix this broken bug as its the final version of the game that was released (for Stream anyways).

So, right then and there Steam broke one of the rules, and broke another rule because we cannot return the video-game for a full refund over a digital distribution service.

However, there is a fan-made (very awesome I might add) patch for Jagged Alliance 2. The only problem is that purists of the original game will hate having to completely overhaul the game and its mechanics to actually get it working correctly.. if they have purchased it from stream.

Other then that little nit-picking episode... steam rox! I think I've purchased enough games over steam to called myself a "Steamer" or that I'm "Steamed" or w/e witty "steam" you can think of.

I wonder if they could also add an amendment saying that the games should be sold at an equal price around the world? After all australians tend to pay 30% extra for new release games compared to the rest of the world and that also includes the ones which are digitally distributed too.

Actually, it's pretty much the opposite, this is a stand against the values of large, American owned corporations, who don't want you to do things like return faulty software when the Securom or whatever refuses to accept it's an original, and think that the only way to fix piracy is to make the customer act out some of kind wierd ritual to be able to play the game.

In many ways, it's fighting against American values, just not the sort that the standard American encounters other than from the recieving end.

All of these are absolutely true, and absolutely necessary. People consuming other products, including other forms of media, don't endure anything remotely like what gamers do. They have the right of return, the right to rent, the right to re-sell. But for gamers the first is unknown, the second is unavailable to people who enjoy PC games, and the latter under threat from DRM of all kinds.

Other cConsumers have rights. We've known and understood that for decades. Game consumers deserve their rights too.

I've already pre-ordered Demigod through Impulse. After reading this I'd pre-order again if I could.

Vote with your wallets people and support stardock in this. If any of my friends pirate Stardock games I hassle them a lot over it and usually they wind up buying originals now. If a company spends the time and effort to take care of me. They fully deserve my support and my money for what ever services I'm using.

Well, if Stardock alone manages to keep to these, I'll be their customer still.

I agree, returning games does pose a problem, but I don't see why people have a problem with expecting updates. That's Stardock's version of copy protection, if you want the updates you need a legal copy of the game. Really, if a company makes a game, they *should* continue supporting it for some time. Even if it's in the form of expansions, there should be some continuing support for a game.

People complain about the number of Sims 2 expansions, but do you think Sims 2 would be still on the sales chart without those expansions? Free updates are better, but not always financially feasible. (Art is the most expensive part of making any game, so any updates like Sims 2 expansions, which is mostly 3D models, cost a lot to produce.)

oh yeah.. i got it legaly, so that makes me a chump whereas a pirate can play his copy free of charge and 3 license restrictions... (and yes i voiced that expression to the reps.. i've been bounced through about 4 or more differant support reps too..)

i don't think most publishers would accept this sorta thing, it'd be a thorn in their side if we could actually return bad products as we were supposed to be able to merely as a consumer in the first place. I mean, if they actually had to FINISH the games prior to release and SUPPORT them both EA and Ubi would be canned, Activision would die without a twitches chance in surviving. the entire industry would fall on its face.

oh and lets not forget the whiney little kids who cry "When will it be done?! why isn't it done yet?!"

the publishers see those posts and freak thinking their gonna lose a sale because of it, when i'd half bet that whiner is one of the bloody pirates anyways just waiting for it to come out so they can knick it free while the seeds are plentiful.

First, "Gamers shall have the right to return games that don’t work with their computers for a full refund."I agree with the idea, but it's just not practical for retailers. Online stores such as Steam could potentially implement something to this end though. Really, as long as the minimum specs allow the game to be played adequately (as another of the Rights demands), it is best left the responsibility of consumers.

Second, "Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game’s release."No. Just no. We shouldn't have the right to expect anything like that. It should depend on whether "meaningful updates" are financially feasible, or even remotely necessary to a product. Also I object to the sheer vagueness of that term.

Developers are gamers too and they have their aggravations, with other gamers, the industry and further.

For one, I can't stand some of the DRM locked stuff and I agree with the fact that when it becomes easier to pirate the game than it does to purchase the game, then there's a serious problem. However, going overseas to some Asian countries, the concept of copyright is nonexistant. When you can walk down the street and some random person just says, "VCD?" and then proceeds to lead to a room in a back alley with tables of pirated software and movies, it becomes obvious that companies with an international scope would feel the need for copyright protection.

That said, I LOVE digital distribution and think that Steam addresses many of the Gamer's Bill of Right listed above.

Gamers shall have the right to return games that don’t work with their computers for a full refund.

Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

Do like.

Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game’s release.

Why? It's not like every game that comes out for consoles has "meaningful" updates. Never mind that 'meaningful' is a vague term which means many things to different people.

Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.

Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won’t install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.

Do like.

Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

I assume this doesn't include things like microstranactions. Otherwise, I got no problem with this.

Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

Huh? This is stupid. Developers have the right to protect the millions of dollars and years of development that were dumped into each game they make. It's also too vague. One could argue that having to enter a CD-key is a form of "criminalizing". I mean if you bought a CD of the game, why should you have to enter a unique code just to install the game you bought?

Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

Do like. But make the ability to play the game without a CD an optional thing like the PS3. Some people are limited by hard drive space on their computers (mostly on laptops).

For PC games, that isn't really an option. Because of the way the files are compressed on a regular CD you MUST unpack them onto your hard drive in order to run it. Games that require you to put a CD in to play the game only do so to make sure you paid for it. The game's running processes do not read any files from the CD other than the inital copy-protection check.

The last is if you do install it to your hard drive, you don't have to slot the disk EVERYTIME you want to play it. I'm not a big PC gamer, but i assume you can run most games straight from the disk without instalation into your HDD correct?

Seriously, I'm ready to bet that he will see this and contact the Catholic Church saying that Satan has now set his own version of the Ten Commandments. I hope he does, so we can all remind him of how much he FAILS AT LIFE.

I dont agree with the last one 100%, having a CD in the drive isnt really a huge problem for consumers and does make pirates need to jump through an extra loophole, but everything else, bravo! I could only wish that it was true, I bought Sins (never played it) simply because they had no DRM.

All my disks live in the attic in a cupboard. I bought the games, I installed them, why the hell should I have to muck around sooooo much because they're worried I might have pirated the damn things? Treat customers like valued customers and not thieves!

My internet validation of Company of Heroes hasn't been working for nearly a month now and it keeps asking me for the disk. So I haven't played it for a month. I want to play it, but I don't want to spend 20 minutes up a ladder trying to find the disk.

I see no good reason, when I have 500 gigabytes of disk space, and when most games include every piece of data it requires in the installation, to make me dig up a CD to play. I've had games I could never play again because the CD got scratched or lost. I've lost thousands of dollars worth of software this way.

And your idea is based on a lie. I've never had to deal with a game I pirate needing a CD.

Not once.

Ever.

It's only when I'm a legitimate user who paid money for a CD that I have to deal with copy protection shit.

I disagree. Having to put in a CD is a HUGE hassle for legitimate users. I haven't touched Battlefield 2142 in months becaue I don't feel like putting in the CD. I know where it is, and my cd drive certainly works, I simply don't want to have to put up with them treating me like a potential criminal every time I want to run the game.

Sins of a Solar Empire doesn't do that, all Valve software doesn't do that, COD4 doesn't do that (I think, I may have hacked that one so I didn't have to put the CD in). With the most recent update Warcraft III doesn't even do that. The only company's software that consistently requires me to have a CD in is EA's software. I'm tempted to get GameJackal or simply hack the .exe files for all of the EA games I own simply because I don't want to be treated the way they treat their users.

Disk checks are a problem. I was unable to play Diablo 2 LOD for almost 2 years because my CD cracked/exploded in the drive (It wouldn't even have been there but not for the disk check!). I only recently can play it again, because the disk check was patched out of the game.

Its not a big problem, until you try to play a game like GRAW and it asks for the DVD when it is IN THE TRAY (oh ya, you also have 3 min. until you need to be in a tournament match).

Yes, that happened to be at a LAN tournament. Thankfully after the 7th try, it finally went through.

But there is always the problem of a CD/DVD suddenly becoming corrupt or explode (this is true, a friend of mine was playing RA2:yuris and the CD exploded in his tray -_-;. Sadly, getting a No-CD patch or CD replacement for that game is nigh impossible) that begs for this kind fix.

Is it a huge problem? Well, no. But sometimes I've tried to play a game that was FULLY installed on the system and asked for a disc. Game is installed, registered, validated, etc. And my game rack is in the other room (~200 PC games ranging from Win95 to current days). So rather than play THAT game... I'll just play Company of Heroes that doesn't require the disc.

Fact of the matter is, disc checking is calling your customer a thief. "Oh, you bought this game? Prove it." That's the issue I have. If over 50GBs of my hard drive is taken up with full installs of games, I don't want to fish through my collection to find a disc just because EA doesn't trust I gave them $50 a few years ago for Command and Conquer Generals. It's calling a paying customer a thief and ONLY in PC gaming circles is this even remotely accepted by the consumers.

Hell, truth be told, I was even offended as a kid when Doom had the line "Thanks for buying this game. You probably paid for it and supported this company."

They actually ask you if you want to be on the mailing list. I missed the check box when I originally set up my account. Later on when I got a few emails I went and found the check box and ticked it. Never recieved anything since then.

Yeah, that's what we call "opt-out UCE". In my case, there was no check box until after I got the spam and went to look, so I doubt you "missed it". For the other reader, UCE is a specific kind of spam, Unsolicited Commercial Email is correct. "Spam" is just anything you don't want to receive, and that isn't specific enough (could include bills :).

I haven't been watching Stardock as a source since November 15, 2007, when they proved they were a source (trying to sell me Dominions 3, not one of their games), and I removed the address I gave them (I give a specific email address to every company...so I just don't get their mail spam or not anymore). I could go grep through my spew database I guess, but you're probably OK just digging into their website and unchecking the boxes they helpfully check for you.

Gamers shall have the right to return games that don’t work with their computers for a full refund.

This won't work as easily as they want. It begs to be abused. In order for this to work, there would first need to be an ultra copyright software produced. This is a huge give and take.

Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

This should definatly be the norm. By finished state, I would guess he means at least a couple rounds of testing (instead of the case of the recent Area 51 game)

Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.

The problem with this is that people have many different versions of "adequately". I personally think that if I can not get a game to run over 90fps at all given times, its not adequete. Although I have seen people call 10fps "running good". PC gaming does need a very specific set of rules on adequecy that everyone can reference.

Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

This is actually a really good idea but with some ISPs monitoring your bandwidth (and even COX even limiting bandwidth), this might turn a negative. Depending on the way some ISPs go, I would love to see this in future PC gaming

Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I hate game that do this crap.

Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

Like mentioned before, unless they can come up with an ultra copyright protection software that does not punish people, I do not see this happening anytime soon.

The problem with this is that people have many different versions of "adequately". I personally think that if I can not get a game to run over 90fps at all given times, its not adequete. Although I have seen people call 10fps "running good". PC gaming does need a very specific set of rules on adequecy that everyone can reference.

I think what they are getting at here is that the standard test for minimum system requirements consists of the follow check list:

1. Does the game install?

2 Does the game start up?

If it meets those points that is the new minimum. It seems that most companies will not actually try to run the game when getting the minimum specs.

Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

Like mentioned before, unless they can come up with an ultra copyright protection software that does not punish people, I do not see this happening anytime soon."

The copy protection they use is 2 fold. 1 - They don't really worry about it. 2 - Updates. To update one of their programs you have to have a valid license key. And their updates are primarily bug fixes (but yes, bugs do creep in from time to time), they are modifications to AI, adding functionality that most developers would hold on to for an expansion pack, and user requested changes to the game. Gosh! Can you believe it? A company that actually LISTENS to the customers! And incorporates their suggestions!

And, if you got to wincustomize.com or joeuser.com (or impulsedriven.com or any of their other myriad of sites) and browse around, you'll see that the devs routinely interact with the community. They'll even go so far as to have Mr. Wardell (aka Draginol or Frogboy, depending on which community he's interacting with), spend time assisting users and answering questions. Draginol.joeuser.com is his general purpose blog, if y'all are interested.

Shout box

Infophile: @Matt: Apparently Dan Aykroyd actually is involved. We don't know how yet, though, but he's apparently going to be in the movie in some way.08/02/2015 - 4:17am

Mattsworkname: I still hold that not having the origonal cast invovled in any way hurts this movie, and unless the 4 actresses in the lead roles can some how measure up to the comic timing of the origonal cast, i just don't see it being a success08/02/2015 - 12:46am

Mattsworkname: Mecha: regardless of what you think of it, GB 2 was a finanical success and for it time did well with audiances ,even if it wasnt as popular as the first08/02/2015 - 12:45am

MechaTama31: I think they're better off trying to do something different, than trying to be exactly the same and having every little difference held up as a shortcoming. Uncanny valley.08/01/2015 - 11:57pm

MechaTama31: Having the original cast didn't do much for... that pink-slimed atrocity which we must never speak of.08/01/2015 - 11:56pm

Mattsworkname: Andrew: If the new ghostbusters bombs, I cant help but feel it'll be cause it removed the origonal cast and changed the formula to much08/01/2015 - 8:31pm

Andrew Eisen: Not the best look but that appears to be a PKE meter hanging from McCarthy's belt.08/01/2015 - 7:34pm

Mattsworkname: You know what game is a lot of fun? rocket league. It' s a soccer game thats actually fun to play cause your A Freaking CAR!08/01/2015 - 7:02pm

Mattsworkname: Nomad colossus did a little video about it, showing the world and what can be explored in it's current form. It's worth a look, and he uses text for commentary as not to break the immerison08/01/2015 - 5:49pm

Mattsworkname: I feel some more mobility would have made it more interesting and I feel that a larger more diverse landscape with better graphiscs would help, but as a concept, it interests me08/01/2015 - 5:48pm

Andrew Eisen: Huh. I guess I'll have to check out a Let's Play to get a sense of the game.08/01/2015 - 5:47pm

Mattsworkname: It did, I found the idea of exploring a world at it's end, exploring the abandoned city of a disappeared alien race and the planets various knooks and crannies intriqued me.08/01/2015 - 5:46pm

Andrew Eisen: Did it appeal to you? If so, what did you find appealing?08/01/2015 - 5:43pm

Mattsworkname: Its an interesting concept, but it's not gonna appeal to everyone thats for sure,08/01/2015 - 5:40pm

Andrew Eisen: That sounds horrifically boring. Doesn't sound like an interesting use of its time dilation premise either. 08/01/2015 - 5:36pm

Mattsworkname: an observer , seeing this sorta frozen world and being able to explore without any restriction other then time. no enimes, no threats, just the chance to explore08/01/2015 - 5:34pm

Mattsworkname: Andrew: I meant lifeless planet, Time frame is an exploration game. Your dropped onto a world which is gonna be hit by a metor in 10 seconds, but due to time dilation ,you actually have ten minutes, so you can explore the world, in it's last moments, as08/01/2015 - 5:32pm