PM - Monday, 26 August , 2002 00:00:00

Reporter: Alexandra Kirk

Labor's shadow cabinet meets tonight to decide its stance, and some senior MPs are still keen to side with the Coalition rather than run the political risk of taking a contrary position.

But a raft of signatories are warning them of the dangers of increasing the powers of Australia's secret servants.

Alexandra Kirk reports from Canberra.

["Get Smart" theme music]

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Maxwell Smart, Agent 99 and the phone box are all being invoked in a last minute campaign to scuttle the Government's ASIO Bill.

A poster from Melbourne-based legal, union and community groups warns people they could disappear in the middle of the night and be interrogated by the nation's spy agency, ASIO, and implores them to fax, e-mail or pull off their shoephone to contact their local MP or Labor leader, Simon Crean.

Labor's position will determine the fate of the Bill.

Ahead of Simon Crean's shadow cabinet meeting tonight to decide Labor's stance. The consensus is the Government's Bill, even with big changes, is not passable. As one source puts it, 'it's about setting up a secret police force and people must ask themselves whether that's needed'.

Labor's more conservative forces are inclined to support the ASIO bill, with a few amendments.

But others, believed to be in the majority, are more wary, and inclined to say a firm "no", where it counts, in the Senate.

Prominent constitutional law expert, Dr George Williams, invited to address Labor's ranks this afternoon, puts it simply, he regards the ASIO Bill as rotten at its core.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: I think it makes sense to read this as a response in the aftermath of September 11, and at that point a year ago it's understandable, we saw very strong laws coming into Parliament.

But a year later it's possible to say that some mistakes have been made and a year later, it's clearer in people's minds that this sort of law is not needed and certainly no policy justification for it has been provided.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: The Government's proposed some changes to mollify concerns, and is currently in discussions with Labor. The ASIO bill's due to be introduced into Parliament later this week.

But Labor's staunchest critics agree with George Williams that it's not about detaining terrorists, but instead seeks to detain non-suspects, anyone deemed to know anything about an alleged terrorist. Something as basic as when they last saw the person of interest or got a postcard from them.

Dr Williams regards the ASIO Bill as the most draconian piece of legislation in half a century.

And so flawed that it can't be amended.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: I think it's a point of principle, and the point of principle is that we must not authorise the detention of non-suspects in Australia. We'd be doing to Australian citizens within our borders what is being done to David Hicks by the United States at the moment. And I just can't see any. . .

ALEXANDRA KIRK: A lot of people would say that there's nothing wrong with that, and they don't oppose the treatment of David Hicks.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: That may be, but there's a different question when you ask those people, 'are you prepared for that regime to be applied to you?' Because this law applies to all Australian citizens within our borders, and not only that, as it's currently drafted it applies to their children as well.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Now you say the Bill is rotten to its core, at its core, and that it cannot and has not been justified, but there is a fair bit of support, as I understand it from within the Labor Party to say amend it rather than to throw it out.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: The core aspect of this Bill is for the detention of non-suspects for lengthy periods in secret, where you don't have access to a lawyer, to a family member, you can't even call your employer. . .

ALEXANDRA KIRK: They are proposing access to a lawyer after the first 48-hours.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: That's right, the Government is suggesting that we will give limited access to a lawyer but now for the first two days, and even then when you do get your lawyer after the two days the lawyer could not sit down with you and talk to you without an ASIO officer being present.

And the reason you've got a lawyer is well to say, 'should I tell ASIO this?' But ASIO is sitting in the room.

It's a regime for giving you a lawyer that has almost no value.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: But isn't useful to try and get information about terrorism?

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: It is. And on the other hand I'm not sure we want to get information about terrorists in a way that undermines the democratic freedoms we're trying to protect from terrorism.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Labor is likely to send the ASIO Bill off to a Senate inquiry. The effect would be to kill it off, as one source puts it 'the Bill would not emerge in any recognisable form, it would be either gutted or put off forever'.