Of course. That's why Pokémon like Luvdisc are often seen on Rain Dance teams. They abuse the rain incredibly with their high stats and are able to devastate teams due to the rain boosts.

I NEVER mentioned that EVERY Ground, Rock or Steel type Pokémon is useful in a Sandstorm team. Simply, I was referring to what Smogon mentions in one of its articles, and frankly, they probably know more than what I or you do.

You don't have to be that sarcastic. .-. I was thinking the same thing as Spirit, actually. If Lucario doesn't really have any extra benefit on being on a Sandstorm team and is only listed because of his excellence at sweeping, then something like Gyarados could be listed as a Rain Team sweeper, just because Waterfall will be stronger. I'm pretty sure Lucario was only listed because he is so good at sweeping normally, and because of the sandstorm resistance which makes him a bit more usable on a sand team.

Oh, and I am actually not totally sure on how Dream World abilities stand. Are all of them legal? Are only some? None? Inconsistent Bidoof was used for a while, and that's a Dream World ability, as well as the obvious Politoed with Drizzle, so are all of them legal right now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraKshatriya

I just had a thought. Don`t ban Doryuuzu to Ubers, just ban the ability Sand Throw/Paddle/Shovel. That ability makes it broken-ish, but Sand Power is usable without being unstoppable (and is much more useful for my team, anyway), so I`d prefer just having the ability itself banned for use in Ubers only.

Drizzle went to Round 2. There will be a new suspect list soon with these who got to round 2 and probably new threats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alakazamaster

Oh, and I am actually not totally sure on how Dream World abilities stand. Are all of them legal? Are only some? None? Inconsistent Bidoof was used for a while, and that's a Dream World ability, as well as the obvious Politoed with Drizzle, so are all of them legal right now?

Any Dream World ability that has been officially released by Nintendo/GameFreak then it is considered legal and is included to WiFi. There are still abilities that aren't released yet and can't be used legally on the WiFi board.

Anyway, I don't believe that Manaphy got to Round 2! Nevertheless, if it gains the same score, it will be banned, and I totally want it to be banned.

You don't have to be that sarcastic. .-. I was thinking the same thing as Spirit, actually. If Lucario doesn't really have any extra benefit on being on a Sandstorm team and is only listed because of his excellence at sweeping, then something like Gyarados could be listed as a Rain Team sweeper, just because Waterfall will be stronger. I'm pretty sure Lucario was only listed because he is so good at sweeping normally, and because of the sandstorm resistance which makes him a bit more usable on a sand team.

Well, who said Gyarados isn't dangerous on a Rain Dance team anyways? It might not be able to abuse it as much as Swift Swimmers or Toxicroak, but it still is fearsome under the rain. Anyways, to be completely honest, I never was fully convinced about Smogon's inclusion of Lucario in the section of primary Sandstorm sweepers. As I mentioned earlier, he doesn't exactly benefit greatly from the sand, but I reckon they put it over there because other dedicated abusers were either banned (like Garchomp) or did not exist in the first place (Doryuuzu, obviously).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alakazamaster

Oh, and I am actually not totally sure on how Dream World abilities stand. Are all of them legal? Are only some? None? Inconsistent Bidoof was used for a while, and that's a Dream World ability, as well as the obvious Politoed with Drizzle, so are all of them legal right now?

Other than what Spirit said, if a Dream World ability, whether released or unreleased, is voted by the Smogon community as banned, then under standard play that ability will not allowed. This will also affect the Pokémon having that ability; for example, since Inconsistent has been banned, Bidoof with Inconsistent is automatically not allowed in the standard metagame. The same applies to any other Pokémon which has Inconsistent as their ability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spirit of Time

Anyway, I don't believe that Manaphy got to Round 2! Nevertheless, if it gains the same score, it will be banned, and I totally want it to be banned.

Agreed. Manaphy seems almost totally invincible under the rain with instant recovery, great 100-all stats and means to boost them in Tail Glow and Calm Mind. STAB, Rain boosted Water-type moves after TG or CM coming off a 100 SpA stat will allow Manaphy to tear through the whole metagame with ease, even against Pokémon resisting it.

I just hope by the time march 6th comes around and these games out to USA and others that dont have it, I just hope that the tiers list dont come out right when the games come out, cause i really want to try garchomp and some others in OU before they are moved to another tier. And yes if I had to I would go on Pokemon (DISALLOWED) and try them there if that comes to it.

I just hope by the time march 6th comes around and these games out to USA and others that dont have it, I just hope that the tiers list dont come out right when the games come out, cause i really want to try garchomp and some others in OU before they are moved to another tier. And yes if I had to I would go on Pokemon (DISALLOWED) and try them there if that comes to it.

They expect the OU tier to be there by the first of February. I don't know about the rest. They will take more time, most probably.

Obviously, the Uber tier will be released, too, once we have the OU tier, as they are both closely connected together. As for the others, then yes, they will take a longer time.

I hope round 2 doesn't take a lot of time, as I really want to explore the new metagame as soon as it is properly established. >_>

Yeah, UU really took a while to settle in Gen. 4 because they were really trying to work out the kinks in OU, and determining what was BL and what was UU was tough. Heck, only a few months ago were NU and Little Cup really making progress. Having OU is nice, but I'll probably still like using UU more this gen. XD Having my favorites available is a lot of fun, and I doubt many UU Pokemon from last gen moved up.

Yeah, UU really took a while to settle in Gen. 4 because they were really trying to work out the kinks in OU, and determining what was BL and what was UU was tough. Heck, only a few months ago were NU and Little Cup really making progress. Having OU is nice, but I'll probably still like using UU more this gen. XD Having my favorites available is a lot of fun, and I doubt many UU Pokemon from last gen moved up.

Although I still prefer OU, I'm kinda like you; I have learned from the previous generation that including some Pokémon from the UU tier in my competitive OU team makes matters much more interesting. Plus, it makes you a better competitive player since you're using Pokémon which are often thought of as inferior to OU Pokémon.

I'll be trying my best to continue this in Gen V's metagame. I hate how some people just cram the top OU Pokémon into a single team, giving it little to no thought, and start battling as though they are guaranteed to win. >_>

After looking through discussion of Gen. 4 tiers from years ago and how completely incorrect they sometimes were, I want to remind everyone to ABUSE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN WHILE YOU CAN.

Aerodactyl, the speedy and powerful Pokemon used to be in UU. Heck, this was at the same time people thought Shedinja and Articuno should stay in OU after they were dropped down to UU. So yeah, tier lists take a while to truly develop, but its still fun to play with what you get!

EDIT: More old-thread looking. Tyranitar used to be in Ubers, Deoxys-L in OU, and Smeargle was UU. Als, people thought Mesprit should be in Ubers. XD Oh god, the things people come up with!

I have been following some people's nominations, and I have to say that most people are nominating Kingdra, Reuniclus and Landorus to be in Ubers. Of course, Excadrill, Manaphy and Drizzle are on the list as well.

After looking through discussion of Gen. 4 tiers from years ago and how completely incorrect they sometimes were, I want to remind everyone to ABUSE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN WHILE YOU CAN.

Aerodactyl, the speedy and powerful Pokemon used to be in UU. Heck, this was at the same time people thought Shedinja and Articuno should stay in OU after they were dropped down to UU. So yeah, tier lists take a while to truly develop, but its still fun to play with what you get!

EDIT: More old-thread looking. Tyranitar used to be in Ubers, Deoxys-L in OU, and Smeargle was UU. Als, people thought Mesprit should be in Ubers. XD Oh god, the things people come up with!

Agreed. Even when the new tier lists are decided, they will still go through a lot of changes until we eventually reach a stable metagame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spirit of Time

I have been following some people's nominations, and I have to say that most people are nominating Kingdra, Reuniclus and Landorus to be in Ubers. Of course, Excadrill, Manaphy and Drizzle are on the list as well.

The voting will start by the 24th of Jan.

It would help if you said why 'most people' are choosing to nominate the first three Pokémon...

Many different opinions, actually. Most people are saying that Landorus and Kingdra are too strong in OU, especially Landorous which is a lot of pain.
Reinuiclus is easy to get +6 Sp. Atk and Sp. Def with Calm Mind due to its ability.

The metagame is currently heading in the right direction. Manaphy is definitely broken with Tail Glow and Rest + Hydration under permanent Rain, so Ubers is the perfect tier for it. Excadrill can be regarded as a slightly powerful, Sandstorm counterpart of Kingdra, and so belongs to the OU tier. Latios + Latias have become less threatening in this generation, while Reuniclus is not yet Uber material, so placing them all in the OU tier is the best decision. Obviously, Deoxys-N deserves to be put nowhere but in Ubers.

Now, I'm actually really happy that Manaphy is banned. Perhaps this might make Rain seem less broken to the testers, as Manaphy was the single biggest threat in it. The others are still strong, but they are much more manageable. If, however, noobs start to make stupid Rain teams due to Drizzle, then I would rather have Drizzle banned so that people don't regard me as a noob, too. Nevertheless, I'm curious to see how the new testing round will go.

If, however, noobs start to make stupid Rain teams due to Drizzle, then I would rather have Drizzle banned so that people don't regard me as a noob, too. Nevertheless, I'm curious to see how the new testing round will go.

In Gen. 4 Rain Teams were pretty much considered the one-stop shop to victory for the UU metagame, and tons of inexperienced players used them under the blind impression that they would lead to instant victory. The cool thing, though, is that this forces other people to change their teams as a result of it. My UU team packs a Clefable and a Toxicroak as means of stopping rain teams from destroying my own.

As such, I don't think Drizzle should be banned altogether, since its still very much counterable, I have found.

Oh, and have people been using Hydration Vaporeon in the metagame? I would think something like that would be important to note, since its incredibly bulky and one-turn full HP restoration seems like a lot.

smogon says in gen 5 that drizzle and swiftswim are banned on the same team, why is this? Also does this mean for ubers too.

The reason is because many people claimed that Rain teams have become broken with the introduction of Drizzle, since the abusers (particularly Swift Swimmers) can enjoy sweeping whole teams under unlimited Rain. I think it makes sense for them to ban this combination, since now Rain teams will become more diverse and unpredictable, and will not be completely wiped out of the metagame.

Also, this combination is only disallowed in the OU tier for now. It's unlikely that the same will be done in the Uber tier, since Kyogre existed a long time before and Swift Swimmers were always used with it.

ok i see, well thats sounds fair that way i dont have to worry about getting destroyed under 5mins in a battle. I had this happen on pokemon (DISALLOWED) with a rain and sandstorm team...That stupid steel/ground type mole thing

Is it me, or is Ferrothorn the most overused Pokemon ever? I can't watch a battle without somebody using one. He's good, there's no denying it, but good lord... He's everywhere.

Yes, but I assume this is only temporary; once the new metagame settles down and stabilizes, the usage of certain Pokémon is going to change. Plus, Ferrothorn has some flaws which can be relatively easily exploited, but its defensive capabilities make that a tougher job.

Kray, Ditto, and I were going through some suspect ubers suggestions. What the hell was Sawsbuck doing in there? I keep thinking maybe it has something to do with Sap Sipper, but Sawsbuck doesn't really have a solid STAB physical grass move besides its signature move, the 70 acc. Horn Leech.

Kray, Ditto, and I were going through some suspect ubers suggestions. What the hell was Sawsbuck doing in there? I keep thinking maybe it has something to do with Sap Sipper, but Sawsbuck doesn't really have a solid STAB physical grass move besides its signature move, the 70 acc. Horn Leech.

Its the same reason Ludicolo was such a vicious threat when Swift Swim was legal. Sap Sipper is complete garbage for Sawsbuck, Chlorophyll is where its at. Base 100 Attack and 95 Speed are pretty impressive when Chlorophyll is doubling your Speed, as it turns into 634 with a Jolly nature. Next factor in the ever-useful Swords Dance, making Sawsbuck a vicious attacker.

Sawsbuck then gets STAB Return which can OHKO Pokemon like Latios who normally are a pain to take down, as well as Horn Leech, which will keep Sawsbuck healthy while still offering the extremely useful Grass/Normal coverage that hits almost everything. Grass/Normal doesn't hit Steel-types, though, which is why Jump Kick and Nature Power are such useful moves. Nature Power even takes the form of Earthquake during Wifi battles, which is more than enough to take down most Steel-types.

Once you get Pokemon like Skarmory or maybe Bronzong out of the way, Sawsbuck is more than capable of destroying teams under the sun.

Another interesting thing we were looking at was Solosis as a viable Uber Trick Room Endeavor slave. The concept certainly interested me, although I'm more used to Sturdyers as an overall Endeavor tactic now.

I hate when smogon slams these things in our faces without anyone knowing whats going on unless your a member of the forum. Like recently I was about to use garchomp and then the day i was going to use him for the first time in b/w he gets banned from OU. Heck next im going to use say dexoys-D and might get banned from OU too or something.

I hate when smogon slams these things in our faces without anyone knowing whats going on unless your a member of the forum. Like recently I was about to use garchomp and then the day i was going to use him for the first time in b/w he gets banned from OU. Heck next im going to use say dexoys-D and might get banned from OU too or something.

Uh where else would you hear about what Smogon is doing than on Smogon itself? .-. Its the only competitive site that people use, so it makes sense that checking there would make sense. Also, the competitive battling scene has been abuzz about Garchomp for a while now, kind of like Salamence last gen. Its hard to complain about not knowing something was coming if you don't look out for it yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiteTheIronMan

FFFFFFFFFFF I need a Sawsbuck.

Another interesting thing we were looking at was Solosis as a viable Uber Trick Room Endeavor slave. The concept certainly interested me, although I'm more used to Sturdyers as an overall Endeavor tactic now.

Could you explain how that would work? I could see it getting one Endeavor down, and then sandstorm finishing foes off, but it would only really take down one Pokemon, when Aron could take down a few since it has the benefit of going second and Shell Bell kicking in. Solosis could just be prioritized the next turn when it has to rely on getting its HP back up, and with Rayquaza running around everywhere it may not be to difficult to get done.

Could you explain how that would work? I could see it getting one Endeavor down, and then sandstorm finishing foes off, but it would only really take down one Pokemon, when Aron could take down a few since it has the benefit of going second and Shell Bell kicking in. Solosis could just be prioritized the next turn when it has to rely on getting its HP back up, and with Rayquaza running around everywhere it may not be to difficult to get done.

Well, it happened again! Garchomp has been banned from OU play completely, so we won't be seeing him anymore.

That's good news, kind of. Even in a metagame which introduced various new dragons and other beastly Pokemon, Garchomp remains Uber-material in my opinion. There's just too many merits which make him strong, especially with the abundance of Sand teams in the metagame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alakazamaster

Its the same reason Ludicolo was such a vicious threat when Swift Swim was legal. Sap Sipper is complete garbage for Sawsbuck, Chlorophyll is where its at. Base 100 Attack and 95 Speed are pretty impressive when Chlorophyll is doubling your Speed, as it turns into 634 with a Jolly nature. Next factor in the ever-useful Swords Dance, making Sawsbuck a vicious attacker.

Sawsbuck then gets STAB Return which can OHKO Pokemon like Latios who normally are a pain to take down, as well as Horn Leech, which will keep Sawsbuck healthy while still offering the extremely useful Grass/Normal coverage that hits almost everything. Grass/Normal doesn't hit Steel-types, though, which is why Jump Kick and Nature Power are such useful moves. Nature Power even takes the form of Earthquake during Wifi battles, which is more than enough to take down most Steel-types.

Once you get Pokemon like Skarmory or maybe Bronzong out of the way, Sawsbuck is more than capable of destroying teams under the sun.

I honestly never expected Sawsbuck to be that powerful. This generation's metagame has many surprises up its sleeve, don't you think?

That's good news, kind of. Even in a metagame which introduced various new dragons and other beastly Pokemon, Garchomp remains Uber-material in my opinion. There's just too many merits which make him strong, especially with the abundance of Sand teams in the metagame

And the worst part is that Garchomp was very powerful and could win games based on pure luck (Sand Veil). If a key Ice Beam or something just plain missed it could be a fatal loss, and for such a stupid reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrayzeeGuy

So in terms of metagame, how many people expect to see any Wide Guard/Quick Guard use? Wide Guard seems lethal in the hands of someone who can anticipate well in double/triples.

I am pretty sure that the VGC metagame has been making use of Wide Guard a lot, because of all the Earthquakes, Rock Slides, and Surfs. Since the main metagame is single, though, I haven't seen much use from these moves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kakashidragon

Just wait till more DW pokes to use there abilitys. Archeops i think gets one.

a
Pokemon that rely on their abilities as their defining gimmick (Shedijna, Arceus, Slaking, Archeops) don't get Dream World abilities, so sadly Archeops will be forever unused.

I am pretty sure that the VGC metagame has been making use of Wide Guard a lot, because of all the Earthquakes, Rock Slides, and Surfs. Since the main metagame is single, though, I haven't seen much use from these moves.

Well if they're using it in VGC metagame, they're not actually using it in VGC Practically every Nationals and Regionals battle would actually have turned around so much if they were used and anticipated properly.

I got a queston that i heard rumors about that Pikachu with lightball is banned to ubers? Im not sure if its true or not but i just traded a lightball from someone and they said this, but i checked smogon and nothing on there says if it is or not.

Last edited by Shadow; August 19, 2011 at 05:13:17 AM.
Reason: Moving post into right thread and removing related context.

For those of you interested, the strategy dex for Gen. 5 is now available on Smogon, providing useful movesets all in one convenient location! Not every Pokemon has a moveset up, though, but more commonly used OU, UU, and Uber Pokemon are up, and even a few Limbo ones!