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Thanks for the article! An interesting piece, especially the conclusion which is spot on,but it does need a bit of a proof read, eg. "That is benefit afforded by an overclockingplatform platform...", was particularly painful. ;D

So how far do you get on the stock fan? It's good for 95w and this chip is 53w with gpu on, so disabling it using the stock HSF gets you how far? A stock fan built for i7's should get a reasonable overclock with no extra cost (not 4.7ghz obviously). Since this is truly aimed at the poor (who else? people wanting to far around with ocing?), they'll likely be trying it with stock.

Any data on that, or did I miss that point in the article? I'd like to know what is stable on stock. Nobody seems to cover this.Reply

I have overclocked one on an Asus H81M motherboard with the stock heatsink. 4.2ghz runs nice. The motherboard ups the voltage to 1.224v and running OCCT it gets temps of up to 64 degrees Celsius at full load. If I go up to 4.4ghz the motherboard ups the voltage to 1.37v and then the temps are in the high 70's to low 80's. Manually lowering the voltage results in crashing. It is still stable but I think 4.2-4.3ghz on the stock cooler is the best option.Reply

Hi, could you please provide me the exact motherboard name, i would like to try it at my place and buying a 87 & 97 chip set boards are little costlier to me now, also i have checked the compatible boards for this processor at Intel site and i wasn't able to locate any Asus boards with the 81 chipset, saw a few MSI 81 chipset boards which are not available at my place.Reply

Why would you pair this with dual 770's? Of course it's not going to perform as well as an i3, but what about single GPU setups (I saw the results in the first page, but no minimum frame rates??) I can't imagine anyone spending $700+ on GPU's and then reaching this low for the processor, but for a $400 build with a 270 or a 750 Ti? It's a whole different ball game. Please base your review off of realistic use cases!Reply

Average FPS are listed in this chart, but no minimum frame times like those shown for the dual set ups. Especially when the averages are within 1-2% for most games, I would rather see minimum frame times to highlight the CPU differences rather than the GPU bottleneck.Reply

"Huh I thought this was an enthusiasts site! No one here buys or is interested in this crap!"

So to keep the kids happy you have to throw stupid levels of kit into the mix to keep them happy. Whereas those of us that have grown older, got kids and more cost concious just think "so what would this do in a real world setup with a $150 GPU for a bit of gaming on the side?"Reply

While reading that part of the article I was under the impression that a 770 was used to ensure that the CPU would be the bottleneck to show the maximum you could get out of it, though I could be wrong. Sorry, but I think the realistic use case was summed up pretty well in the conclusion. There really is no point in buying this processor to pair with a 750ti and try to make a budget gaming system. I say this because you are for sure going to have to buy an after market cooler to run at that high of an over clock, and the fact that I see the Haswell i3 on sale for around $110 on a pretty regular basis, you are talking about a $15 or so difference in price. So realistically, for that little bit of money, why buy a processor that you are running on at the edge of it's life at all times (high heat and voltage) instead of an i3 that can run at stock and be as good and sometimes way better in games?Reply

Due to the low starting TDP of haswell, almost any aftermarket cooler will suffice. Combine that with the CPU+MB combos offered lately for the G3258, and a complete system can be built for much less than an i3 build.

For example, I just built a system with a G3258 + Gigabyte B85 (yes it does support overclocking) aftermarket cooler, PSU, AMD 7850, 8 GB memory, for ~$240.Reply

okay, soo... minus out $75 for the processor, minus out $25 for the cpu cooler (you aren't going to run 4.7ghz everyday on something less than like a Hyper 212) =$100... now add in $110 for the i3 that's on Newegg as we speak and buy your same exact parts... $10 difference (ok plus what, like $15 for you combo discount?) so for $25 you have you same build with an i3 instead and its a much better overall performer, not overclocked to it's teeth, not running high voltage all day long. Man, you seem to really want this Pentium to be amazing and a great value... but... it's not.Reply

They're not saying you would or should pair this CPU with dual GTX770's. But: if the CPU performance doesn't matter (or can't beat the i3) even for such strong GPUs, it won't matter with slower ones either.Reply

It would be interesting to see how a hypothetical i3-K would perform. Perhaps it's possible to test with an i7-K at around 4.5 GHz and two cores disabled?

Also, it'd be interesting to see benchmarks with the type of games mentioned in the beginning of the review (and a low-mid range GPU) - DOTA 2, League of Legends, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, popular MMORPGs, Minecraft, etc.Reply

Yes, I agree totally. I think that the i3-K would the modern day version of the old Celerons because of the fact it is 4 threads. Ian did a great job in this article to show that we are past the point of '2 threads is enough' and a maxed out dual core isn't giving you the same extra free performance like over clocking did in the old days (because of todays low end of 4 thread processors). But as far as gaming is concerned, we have been to that point of '4 threads is enough' as seen by the i5 being the sweet spot for gaming for a couple years now. So a highly overclocked i3-K does fit into that scenario nicely. Perhaps Intel already knows this, and perhaps it fits a little TOO nicely that it would cut too far into i5 sales, and this is the reason they have not made one? So instead they chose to put out the Pentium-AE fully knowing it wouldn't cut into their i3 sales because the performance isn't there.

Also, I second the request for a hypothetical i3-K test that yhselp proposed!Reply

Indeed, but remember that we're talking about a specific set of games that aren't very demanding to begin with; in my mind, this Pentium-K or even a hypothetical i3-K would never be enough for proper high image quality gaming with the latest games, however, it might be very well-suited for DOTA/LoL/CS, etc. The source engine, especially with Valve games, is terribly single-threaded so I wouldn't be surprised if an OC'd G3258 actually pulls ahead of stock i3 under certain circumstances with these games. Unfortunately, that's one set of benchmarks we didn't get.Reply

The problem with using the i-7's and down clocking to simulate lower tier processors is that the L3 cache is still there at 8MB, where those lower tier processors are severely castrated in that department. You can get the memory simulated and thread counts can kind of be controlled.Reply

Just makes no sense. Overclocking is generally targeted at gamers and data crunchers. The Pentium AE does neither because it has no hyper threading and no AES. Even at 5GHz this thing couldn't touch a stock i3 in gaming or data crunching. The salt on the wound is the i3 can be had for $40 more, and you can SAVE $40 opting for a non-overclocking motherboard chipset.

So basically for the same price, you can get an i3 platform with superior performance. This thing is literally just for "fun" but once reality sets in and you consider the facts, fun turns to regret.

I feel as if this chip is simply a delivery platform for high-end Intel chipsets to people who would otherwise get an H-series.

If you want a real overclocking platform, just spend the extra $100 and get an i5-4690k. If you want a quality gaming CPU or need modern multithreaded performance (and practically all apps/games are multithreaded now, BF4 practically requires quadcore) get an i3 for $40 more and save $40 on the fancy motherboard, breaking even compared to a Pentium AE.Reply

Since only Z boards are firmware-ready for the G3258, unless you have a first-gen Haswell lying around along with a 80-series "new stepping" H81 or better, your stuck with a Z97 or "compatible" H97 (again, read firmware update required.)

All the launch boards/combo's for G3258 aren't Z97-chipsets by mistake. It is essentially required at this point. It will change as time goes on, but that doesn't change the fact you are better off with an i3+H81 for the SAME PRICE as a G3258+Z97. The G3258 is such a weak multithreaded performer (having two physical cores with no hyper-threading) that if you are looking to spend that little on some fun, you're actually just better off with an AMD platform.

And the cooler is still shit. Nobody has had their G3258 run for 24 hours at STOCK speed without throttling. STOCK. How do you think 1" of tiny fins and a 1200RPM fan is going to dissipate 50w of heat? Notebook heatpipes are more effective and they only need to dissipate 15-35w of heat.

Anybody who actually buys this platform is misinformed. The writing is on the wall. No reviewers can morally recommend this chip unless you just like the "fun" of overclocking. Beyond that, its a bad investment. An i3 platform with a more basic chipset will be faster for the same price, or less.Reply

Why don't you like the stock 3258 cooler? It is the same cooler that cools a Haswell i7 quad core, yet the 3258 even when OC consumes only a modest amount of extra power (see system power consumption chart on page 1 of this review).Reply

"And the cooler is still shit. Nobody has had their G3258 run for 24 hours at STOCK speed without throttling. STOCK."

I see plenty of reports in the forums of people using the STOCK cooler that came with the G3258 to hit 4.5GHz running 100% load in the 60-70°C temperature range, without being super noisy either. These are first-hand reports from those who have actually tried it.

But you go believe what you want, and if you have proof please post links. Potentially there is a huge conspiracy with a bunch of people posting that the stock cooler works fine when it really doesn't. I do not discount that possibility, however unlikely.Reply

What type of cooling was used/is recommended in order to get a G3258 to 4.5GHz+? If you need high end air or AIO water ($80-120), it kind of runs counter to the idea of building the cheap, high performing system.Reply

If you cheap on everything, then it won't ever be high performing. I used a Corsair H80i for these numbers during a nice warm British summer. The best place to start for overclocking would be a cooler with at least four copper heatpipes and a decent fan, then go from there.Reply

Can you run power draw numbers for this system? Starting TDP for the Pentium is 53 W, I don't think it would run much above 100-150 W overclocked. Stock Intel cooler is rated for 95W, and even your cheapest aftermarket cooler should be good for much more than that.Reply

My bad...should have re-read. Performing some terrible math here, but if we assume 53W at stock speeds, then that's 40 W system overhead. At 131W at 4.7 GHz, approx. 93W for the CPU. On the edge for Intel's cooler, but definitely doesn't require anything that fancy to cool. An AMD A10 is around 100W TDP. And if you're willing to drop a point or two to 4.5 or 4.6 GHz, the power draw is even less.Reply

The stock cooler is rated at 95w for how long? Because my experience, even going back to the i7-920, is the stock cooler can't keep a chip running at default frequency/voltage for more than a few hours at full load without throttling. Those coolers were supposedly rated at 130w, just like the CPU. But as the surface area heats up across every mm of fins and the ambient case temp jumps just a few degrees, the performance dips.

Are you kidding me? ALL stock intel CPU fans will allow the cpu they come with to run at 100% load 24/7 without throttling. If you are having problems making that happen, you are doing something wrong.Reply

could you guys do some more games (and try the Celeron G1820 or G1840--the cheapest Haswell Intels on The Egg)? don't have a lot of cash at the moment and am curious about the cheapest of cheap livingroom gaming boxes i could build...Reply

Ian, you are mistaken. The core i5 and i7 K editions have AVX and AES support. Look it up on Intel's ARK processor feature filter. They do not have TSX support, in contrast to their non K counterparts.Reply

It is 2014Q3 and still, no reason to upgrade from Sandy Bidge 2600K @ 4.8Ghz, $30 air tower cooler setup to anything Intel has to offer. Load temperature is <80C after 24 hours of non-stop Linpack.

I feel so sad, Ivy Bridge was a downgrade for me, Haswell was an even hotter downgrade and now Devil's Canyon can't reach 4.8GHz even with water cooling. $500 for same performance but hotter than ever? How do these products get raving reviews?!

I need single-thread performance so more slow cores won't help me. Three and half years waiting and still nothing. AMD, VIA, anybody, please come and kick Intel in the behind so I could finally get >10% performance increase after four generations!Reply

Unless we find a successor material for Silicon, at this point I don't think it's going to happen. We appear to've hit an effective clock speed wall; and making the cores/caches themselves bigger is deep into diminishing returns. Reply

Thanks for this. I came away with the same deduction after reading other various articles, but those weren't as clear-cut or upfront with the findings. While nice price to start for a CPU, I think after investing in an acceptable OC'n mobo and good cooler, why? An i3 with any regular mobo and stock cooler offers better gaming, and if that's what it about Pentium AE isn't the best route. For the average entry level builds, it best to not give a kid or novice the impression that hitting 4.7Ghz isn’t for the faint of heart.

I would’ve like to have seen and FX-6300 as that has been my go-to chip for budget Gaming builds, at $100 along with ASRock 970 Extreme3 R2.0 bundled for around $160 from MicroCenter you can’t bet against it. With most any $20-30 aftermarket cooler, I’ll get a 4.5-4.7Ghz and call it good. For Gaming most every title plays better verses the i3 (say perhaps Arkham City or Shogun 2), while heading into i5 territory.Reply

Yes, they are the same exact dies, pretty much. If Intel did it anything like they did with ivy Bridge, then basically there are 4-6* dies for the consumer Haswell chips. These dies are used in all lines from Celeron, to Pentium and i3/5/7, desktop AND mobile chips.

2c/3MB/GT12c/4MB/GT24c/6MB/GT14c/8MB/GT2

*The R-series CPU's use 1 or 2 additional different dies. I know there is a 4c version, which has 6 or 8MB of L3, and GT3, and there may also be a 2c version as well, but I am not sure.Reply

EDIT: For chips like the Celerons with 2MB of L3, they disable some of the L3 cache. Sometimes a SKU will use a 'higher'/bigger die than you would expect, with some parts disabled. It just depends on what Intel feels like doing/has more of at the time/etc.Reply

For an allegedly "unlocked version," the G3258 certainly has a lot of stuff locked. - Half of the GPU execution units (10 out of 20) are locked. - One MB of cache is locked. - The AVX instructions are locked. - The AES instructions are locked. - The transaction instructions (TSX-NI) are locked. - I/O virtualization (VT-d) is locked. - Hyperthreading is locked.I'm sure that there is more stuff that I've missed. I'd guess that Intel has made somewhere around one third of the circuitry on the chip unusable.Reply

My guess is that we won't see an overclocked i3 because with 4.5GHz, hyper threading and a bit more cache, suddenly there's little need to buy a non-K i5 any more in a majority of use-case scenarios.Reply

I actually bough a Pentium G3258 along with an MSI Z97 PC Mate for $99 plus tax at Microcenter.

I didn't expect anything magical from this purchase. It was easy to justify since I was getting the processor and the motherboard for less than the sale price of the motherboard which sells for $109.99.

I can see this being a great machine to surf the web and to do some Steam In-Home Streaming. Even OC to 4.5/4.6, it doesn't use much in electricity when it idles plus I got to upgrade my current low-end system with this new system. It has USB 3 and SATA 3 ports and a newer audio codec. Overall for me, it was a no-brainer. If it was more than $100, then I am not sure if I would made the jump or not.

On a side note, I will probably be buying another one (or I should say my parents will be getting another one since it's one per household) to upgrade my parents' PC. They've had an i3 530 for about 4 years. It's starting to a bit "slow" for them when they browse some of the newer websites. For $100 plus tax at Microcenter, this would be a nice upgrade for them. It should burn a bit less power, it has a better iGPU, and comes with USB 3. Since they have an external USB 3 HD and flash drives, it will certainly be a benefit to them since they do copy GBs of data back and forth and always ask me if there's a way to make it faster.

Since I'm the one that's taking care of their PC remotely, I don't have an issue with OC a bit and keeping an eye on it.

The bottom line is that for their use-case, I think it's a great step up for a low price.Reply

I am just disappointed you didn't test with a 3MB Core i3 (like the $125 i3-4130 or the $130 i3-4150). These are also the processors commonly found in Pre-built PCs which the Pentium G3258 will likely be compared against.

People keep mentioning the Celeron 300A. This is nothing like a Celeron 300A. Overclocked, the 300A was nearly indistinguishable from the top of the line processor, the PII-450. You overclock this chip and it's still a low end piece of (equipment). When you can overclock a Celeron and have it match an i7, then you can compare it to the Celeron 300A.Reply

The i3-4130 is not just 100 Mhz slower than i3-4330. It is also missing 1MB of cache. (See my comments elsewhere after this article on why that might be important. I posted an Anandtech forum link with some test results to back up my concerns)Reply

The E2160 was Core 2 architecture, but it wasn't a "Core 2 Duo E2160". It was Pentium-branded with no Level 3 cache and a very small Level 2 cache.

I had the E2180 and overclocked the snot out of it for over a year until I ponied up the bucks for a quad core. It could play any game of the time on "High" competently except for some micro-stutters. I attribute that to the lack of a big CPU L2/L3 cache, not to mention the old-style FSB memory interface.Reply

stock speed i3 beats a massively OC'ed dual core. The multi core scaling era really is here. i3 is cheaper if you consider the whole system (non-OC mobo easily offsets the CPU cost, no need for a massive cooler on a stock clock, etc..) and performs better in almost every scenario...

This leads me to one conclusion. Intel is banking on people making a dumb decision and buying this just because it's OCable.

As the article says, an i3-K CPU would be ideal. However, Intel is too smart to release one. They know it will eat into the margins that it's enjoyed by positioning it's offerings so people feel compelled to buy an i5-K or i7-K .Reply

I don't think I would recommend one of these to anyone for a low-end gaming machine. With DX12 being able to take better advantage of multiple threads, the low-end for gaming probably should be 4 threads. With xbox one and ps4 both using a low single thread performance, 8 thread cpu, I would expect to see a lot more optimization aimed at 4 to 8 threads. I doubt these low-end chips have sufficient caches and other resources to effectively support multi-threading. I wonder if turning on vector extensions would use too much cache also. The vector extensions should be getting less use anyway, since almost anything that could make good use of the vector extensions would run faster on a gpu. Reply

I got G3258 and MSI B85M gaming motherboard at Newegg for $99 free shipping, Then got coolermaster t4 for $15 after rebate, updated bios,got chip oc'd to 4.9 at 1.4 but temps got to 80-82 under full load with prime95 so I lowered to 1.23 volts and 4.6 ghz temps under load stable at 65 and 30 at idle...not bad for a $99 motherboard cpu comboReply

I got this in a combo cpu+mobo for $80 and an evo 212 cooler for $25 which puts me below the cost of the i3 (currently around $130) and it runs very well. Alot of the comments seem to be "Well if you just spent 40,80,100 dollars more you'd be better off. But why stop there? Don't be cheap! Spend a couple grand that you have lying around and laugh at the poor budget gamers with families and bills.Reply

I'm late to the party but I don't care. I got this as a combo with an ECS Z97 PK for $100. Makes sense to me, because I was upgrading a Core 2 Duo E6600 build and I didn't want to spend double on DDR2 when I could just get a new board with just a small investment that could later get anything up to a current i7 later on. $100 + $70 for a single 8GB stick of RAM so I can add another one of those later, with 32GB total possible. That's a good investment in a modern platform. Paired it with a 750 Ti for another hundred. Probably could have gone higher on that, but the deals just weren't there.Reply

The comparison table is completely flawed. If you compare A vs B and get +X% it doesn't mean you get -X% if you compare B vs A. You actually get 100/(1+X/100)-100 percent for B vs A.

For example, with 3DPM-ST (-25%) and 3DPM-MT (+33%) you get an average of +4% in favor of the i3. Which is not correct. -25% for the i3 means +33% for the Pentium in 3DPM-ST. Which basically nullifies the advantage of the i3 in 3DPM-MT. So, an average of 0% would be correct in these two tests, not 4%.

I don't know why the author can make such simple mistakes. This is not professional.Reply