Hokie-Doke

By Paul Lukas, on September 28th, 2012

Last week I Ticker-linked to an interesting article about color-out shirts at Virginia Tech. That article was sent my way by reader Chris Sykes (who’s also quoted in the article). He has some personal experience in this area. Here’s a very interesting story he related to me:

In November of 2008, when I was a sophomore at Virginia Tech, I took over the program to create a Maroon Effect and Orange Effect T-shirt for the 2009 football season. The program is run by the Student Government Association, in conjunction with the bookstore (we decided that they would be our exclusive dealers of the shirts), but we like to keep everyone around campus in the loop. To do this, we meet with our school’s athletic department when we first start the program and once we have the designs finalized. We sell around 80,000 shirts a year — $10 for the orange long-sleeved shirt and $6 for the maroon short-sleeved, $12 for both. [The prices have since gone up just a smidge but are still very reasonable. — PL.] Proceeds benefit Student Government projects.

I met with the athletic department’s marketing director in November when I started. The meeting was just a quick introduction to each other. We quickly talked about the status of the Maroon and Orange Effect. The marketing director brought up the school’s new Hokie Respect logo, which was a new initiative they had started. They were attempting to have it gain some traction at the school, so having the logo on our shirts would be a big deal for the Hokie Respect program. They wanted it placed on the sleeve of our shirts, but they weren’t willing to pay for it. [Adding a graphic to the sleeve adds to the shirt’s cost.] I told them I would think about it and and price it out. At the time, the color-out shirts had never had a logo on them.

We talked to different companies about printing our shirts and found that the logo on the sleeve would increase the price by $1 per shirt. Obviously, it wasn’t worth it, since the shirts are a fundraiser, plus I liked the idea that there was never any sponsorship on the shirts.

I met with the marketing director again in March. This time I brought the President of the Student Government Association with me, since I figured they wouldn’t take it well.

We sat down in the office I showed the shirt design to the marketing director. He seemed to like the designs but quickly asked where the Hokie Respect logo was. I told him that It would increase the price of the shirts and wasn’t something we were interested in doing. (We didn’t feel like the athletic dept. was really helping us with the shirts, so there was no reason for us to put their logo on them.) He quickly got angry, described all the things that the athletic department does for us (they put the Maroon Effect and Orange Effect on the schedule on their web site and that’s pretty much it), and asked us what we thought.

Again I told him that it wasn’t something we were interested in and that I sorry that we couldn’t help. He then proceeded to tell us that it is bullshit that we are unwilling to work with them and that we were so unprofessional. He then told us that the meeting was over and we needed to leave right then, and that he did not want to speak or work with us in the future.

He called me from a blocked number an hour later, apologized, and said he did in fact want to work with us. But there was a lot of tension over the next couple of months. An example of this is that they normally allow us to announce the shirts at halftime of the spring game, we were not allowed to do so that year.

Interesting stuff. While I still think color-outs are a bit silly (the idea that anyone would find a stadium full of orange to be “intimidating” seems laughable on its face), I like that Chris and his crew were able to produce very inexpensive shirts, with the proceeds going back to student projects. I also like that he resisted the “We’re the athletic department so you should carry our logo” pressure. Nice job, Chris.

By the time most of you read this, I’ll be on my way out of town to work on a story. I’ll be completely off the grid for most of today and all of the weekend, and I won’t be home until late Sunday night. This means (a) I won’t be around for the unveiling of the Nets’ new uniforms, which is expected to take place today or tomorrow, and (b) I won’t be able to compile all the material for Monday Morning Uni Watch. Just to complicate matters, Phil is facing an extra-busy weekend of his own.

So here’s the plan:

• The Uni Watch e-mail address is currently being forwarded to Phil. Please use it judiciously for the next three days. If you’re not sure whether something is worth sharing or reporting, err on the side of not sending it. Of course, you should definitely send along legitimate news, important screen shots, etc. But try to go easy on the throttle, for the sake of Phil’s sanity.

• If circumstances allow, Phil will compile Monday Morning Uni Watch for next Monday. If he can’t swing it, we’ll run some non-football content on Monday instead. Sorry about that, but them’s the breaks.

• Remember, if you’re wearing stirrups today and want to be included in Phil’s round-up of photos tomorrow, send your pics to him here.

119 comments to Hokie-Doke

“How much more ugly could it be. The answer is None. None more ugly.” ~Nigel Tufnel

walter|
September 28, 2012 at 9:12 am |

The Jags should be chased out of town (and into Los Angeles’ waiting arms) for high crimes against good taste.

Giraffe|
September 28, 2012 at 1:00 pm |

Yeah, no.

LA doesn’t give a shit about having an NFL team there. They still can’t agree on where the fucking stadium will be, so KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF with all of this bullshit NFL BACK IN LA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lies, because that’s all they are, bullshit lies.

Judy|
September 28, 2012 at 2:25 pm |

Agreed. Please don’t send a football team, especially not a team that discards a perfectly good uniform for a shitty BFBS jersey, to LA. Don’t need them, don’t want them.

walter|
September 28, 2012 at 2:52 pm |

Stop agreeing with the troll.

Jeremiah|
September 28, 2012 at 9:39 am |

Reading through the comments on that site, their fan base must be mainly kids who like shiny objects and black. Some of them are even begging for the Jags to go with the leotard look. Very sad.

Oh, and if this is what they’re going to wear, I’ll say “no thanks” to them coming to LA.

Eethy|
September 28, 2012 at 10:07 am |

That teal shimmer on the helmet is going to look extra stupid against the flat black jersey. SMH

Jersey designations must be flipped on 12 months’ notice; assuming the Jaguars notified the NFL about the change, the black would become their primary at the start of the 2013 preseason. Because they have not yet worn the black this season, they have one use of the black left after October 7.

We know the black is not this season’s primary because of both the article you linked to AND the fact they wore the teal 3 times in the preseason. Had the teal been the alternate, it could have only been worn once during the preseason.

Since the Jaguars have five home games remaining after Oct. 7, and only one remaining use of the black, this means they’re going white at home this season like they did in Week 2. My best guess at the other black-jersey game is the Thursday nighter against the Colts.

By the way, this means that the Jaguars will become the fourth team in NFL history to wear an alternate colored top more often than their regular colored top, after the ’94 Niners, the ’02 Redskins, and the ’11 Cowboys. This season’s Panthers could theoretically join the list if they go with white at home four more times this year.

I know this post is getting into tl;dr territory, but what is the penalty for wearing an alternate for a third time? It could easily be loss of the coin toss option for both halves and a 15-yard penalty, from my interpretation of the rulebook.

Someone posted last week that the Panthers are wearing their black jerseys for the final four home games. They’ll otherwise be wearing white at home until then.

As for the Jags schedule, they do have away games in Houston, Tennessee, and Miami. The first two they MIGHT have to wear their team colored jerseys since both teams do wear white at home at times. (The Texans do wear their Battle Red jerseys against Jacksonville at times, so I consider that one unlikely.) The Miami game is at 1 PM so they WILL be wearing a colored jersey in that one.

And if you read at the bottom of the article, it says there will be a Nike-inspired redesign next year, even though they should have to wait until 2014 before being allowed another redesign.

Note to Comrade Marshall. Check out the photo of Cardinals’ manager Red Schoendienst in the pre-game introductions. Now THAT’S what a Cardinals-style stirrup should look like! Nuf ced!

JamesP.|
September 28, 2012 at 11:29 am |

Considering the variations in the stirrups worn by the other Cardinals, why pick out Red’s as how the Cardinal stirrup should look?

Also, what Robert has on his offerings list is the style beign worn today.

Terry Proctor|
September 28, 2012 at 7:50 pm |

Because that’s the proper Cardinal striping. Red, like me, is an old school guy. OK?

Robin Griffiths|
September 28, 2012 at 7:58 am |

Is that white Giants helmet a complete photoshop job, looking at the position of the stripe?

Also, has the Jags’ number font changed? the corners of the numbers look like straight lines on the black jersey whereas they appear rounded on the teal?

Dumb Guy|
September 28, 2012 at 8:44 am |

I dig the white Giants helmet! Hard to tell if it maybe has 2 blue stripes (one being covered by the girl’s arm?) or not. I base that on the fact the the visible one starts just to the side of the nose bumper. I’ll assume there’d be one on the other side too.

Jags blow.

Chris K|
September 28, 2012 at 12:35 pm |

Love the white New York football Giants helmet.

PG-13|
September 28, 2012 at 1:26 pm |

^this

I think it looks pretty sharp.

boxcarvibe|
September 28, 2012 at 8:10 am |

Interesting details about the white outlining on the Mets jerseys. Never noticed that before. Don’t the Dodgers use a white base color on their home jerseys? At least they used to.

walter|
September 28, 2012 at 9:15 am |

As did the Reds.

JohnnyB|
September 28, 2012 at 10:02 am |

Dodgers had the white outline from 1980-2006.
I think it looked much more authentic. What screams replica to me is always one color letters.

Jeremiah|
September 28, 2012 at 10:10 am |

I always liked the white base on the road grays, too. I agree on how cheap the one-color letters and numbers look on the Dodgers jerseys.

DJ|
September 28, 2012 at 2:05 pm |

If the numbers and letters were thicker, it’d be better.

boxcarvibe|
September 28, 2012 at 10:51 am |

When I think replica, I think cheap. Two or three color sewn lettering isn’t cheap.

walter|
September 28, 2012 at 12:51 pm |

That would depend: On a detailed uniform, it just adds visual clutter. On a stark uniform (the Dodgers would qualify) it adds a natural shadow in lieu of a graphic shadow.

“Odd find by Bryan Prouse, who saw a Coors ad whwith a proper Jets helmet but a white Giants helmet.”

typo “whwit”

kory|
September 28, 2012 at 8:21 am |

I really wish the Bills would have taken Quinn. Maybe it would have saved the Browns from making that mistake.

Les|
September 28, 2012 at 8:35 am |

I had the pinstripe version of the white outline Mets jersey but it never looked right ,any ideas when Broolkyn unveil there unis ??

Les|
September 28, 2012 at 8:50 am |

Brooklyn that is lol????

Kyle Lamers|
September 28, 2012 at 8:41 am |

VT sudent here. I am not a fan of the Orange and Maroon shirts we sell each year. I gout the orange effect one from two years ago and mainly just to have a new Tech shirt and now figure since I own orange and maroon shirts now, I am covered for the games (if I even remember that it’s a color shirt game, which I never do).

I could be mistaken, but don’t he ones now have the Hokie Respect logo somewhere (I think on the sleeve even)?

Joe|
September 28, 2012 at 9:12 am |

VT alum. I thought this was a strange story. First, the Hokies Respect program dates back quite a bit longer than this- it started in 2003. So this program had been in effect quite a long time before the student even enrolled. Furthermore, the logo is not new. It’s been the same since it’s inception. The athletic department was not re branding in any way.

The other part that is confusing, is that I wouldn’t really consider it branding at all. It’s just a sportsmanship initiative. The logo is in no way related to revenue. Despite what the author says about the “athletic department doing nothing for us,” the football program is what enables and promotes this fundraiser (for free) in the first place.

I can completely understand why the athletic department thought it would be a good idea to have a reminder about sportsmanship on a shirt that will be worn by 75% of the fans at a game.

Finally, it seems like the author made little or no effort to meet them halfway. Sure, the sleeve would have been expensive, but it could have easily been placed on the breast or the back shoulder or something with no difference in cost. The SGA has complete creative control over these shirts- they could put it wherever they wanted. I know this, because I was close to 2 of the former student directors of the program.

Put simple, I’d like to hear the other side of this story. I’ll bet that this was anticipated to go a long way towards meeting ACC sportsmanship requirements or something. I’d imagine it would go something like this “We asked if they would incorporate this sportsmanship logo into their design, they said yes. We moved forward with that assumption. Shortly before the release of the shirts, they reneged on our agreement.”

Another Tech Alumni|
September 28, 2012 at 1:11 pm |

I was roommates with a former director of the program and am also curious to know more of the story. Also, does the athletic department license its logos to SGA? That would be the only way the square root of one and the hokiebird could be on the shirt, right?

Finally, Paul found a picture of the most terrible “Hokie Effect” shirt ever produced. “We Challenge You To Walk Down Our Lane” is just brutal. These slogans typically run through a cycle of about 4 or 5 years (naturally, I guess). There was an Orange Effect shirt with a reference to Lane Stadium in either 2003 or 2004 too.

I found it interesting that the member of the athletic department called the student “unprofessional” and threw in a profanity to boot. Pot calling the kettle black.

Graf Zeppelin|
September 28, 2012 at 9:12 am |

About a year and a half ago I bought from eBay a game program from the first interleague series at Shea, against the Red Sox in ’97, hoping it would contain some good pics of the Mets unis from that time, particularly the road grays. Unfortunately there were no road gray pics, and a good number of pics of the white alternates and white “ice cream” caps. But on both the whites and the pinstripes, the white outline on the lettering was very noticeable.

One thing I noticed last fall when the new black-less unis were unveiled was that the “Mets” script on the home jerseys looks thicker than it was in ’95-97. I think the white outline accounts for this, viz., the new script covers the same space.

Not if 21 was generally his number in both sports, and the only reason he didn’t wear it for the Ravens was because he couldn’t because it was either retired or someone else had it or it was his age at the time. (I don’t know why he wore 37 for the Ravens, but other than that he was always 21, I think). And it’s Deion, not Dion.

Those caps are beautiful! Not a fan of the jersey, but the caps I like!

Arr Scott|
September 28, 2012 at 10:47 am |

Yeah, those first jerseys were much too conservative in form for a team the rest of whose identity was pretty innovative. The switch to the racing stripes some years later was a big step forward. The bold lines nicely complemented the pinwheel cap and the modernist chest insignia.

Makes me wish the Nats would either switch from the headspoon to Expos style racing stripes (but with navy instead of royal) or add navy pinwheel-style side panels to their caps.

My buddy wears a pinwheel Expos cap around DC and constantly has people complimenting him on it. A pinwheel style Nats hat would be popular.

pflava|
September 28, 2012 at 11:15 am |

I always really loved the original Expos jerseys – very clean, with the chest logo popping perfectly. I thought the racing stripes were, frankly, kind of gaudy. The originals were traditional, but also completely unique and modern at the same time. It’s a shame for this uniform that the 70’s immediately happened.

DJ|
September 28, 2012 at 2:09 pm |

The racing stripes were a … contemporary look. My high school used them for my senior year (two red flanking athletic gold). Should the Expos ever return (let it be so), the Cool Base underarm mesh would make racing stripes impractical.

Arr Scott|
September 28, 2012 at 3:39 pm |

DJ, I see that as an advantage. Racing stripes belong on the shoulders and legs. Not the side-torso.

DJ|
September 28, 2012 at 9:06 pm |

Arr, I tend to agree. I’ve fiddled with Expos concepts with pen and paper over the years; I’ve settled on the thin red/white/blue piping around the cuffs and down the pant legs (the original uniform).

walter|
September 28, 2012 at 2:50 pm |

Feel free to contradict my “facts”, but the Expos were the first baseball team with a custom numeral font. For Montreal, the style made sense, but I can’t say it worked for any other team. Thoughts?

Arr Scott|
September 28, 2012 at 3:41 pm |

Don’t know if that’s true or not – do the Expos really predate the Pirates custom numbers? – but the Expos number font would look better with the Nats curly W than their actual Dallas-style block numbers.

Mike, you’re probably right. Chicago’s font is more functional than Montreal’s fancy type, but it still doesn’t have an off-the-shelf look to it.

Rickf|
September 28, 2012 at 9:45 am |

has it been mentioned that Ray Lewis continues with R. Lewis NOB while there aren’t any other lewis’ on the team..

Anthony Nuccio|
September 28, 2012 at 9:45 am |

My school’s student activity body, also known as the CUAB, does the same type of thing that Virginia Tech’s student organization has done. Granted, we don’t sell our shirts online, but we do sell them fairly cheap and at all of our home American football games.

For the ticker, I agree with the Guardian that I do not like many of the kits for this year’s BPL campaign. My least favorite is Liverpool’s, mainly because I hate collared shirts and wish that they could have gone back to this: http://www.historica...

Jacksonville’s new uniforms are absolutely disgusting. But then again, do they really have a reason to be mentioned in the NFL, other than being one of those Florida NFL teams?

Mike V.|
September 28, 2012 at 9:48 am |

Paul,

Going to the Mets game yesterday afternoon, you got to witness them give one of the last mercy killings to the Buccos epic 2012 season collapse. This season has truly been the best of times and the worse of times.

Anyway, how about that catch by Snyder taking away that homer! It seemed the home crowd was impressed enough to applaud him.

Pete|
September 28, 2012 at 10:33 am |

That Miami Spice logo sucked as the Sonics logo anyway. Let them have it along with whatever law suit comes their way.

Gah… I love/hate that movie. On one hand, it’s just hilarious… on the other, the complete disregard for history with the Dolphins’ Super Bowl loss story makes me want to stab someone.

Perry|
September 28, 2012 at 10:41 am |

Man, some hilarious captions on those Expos photos. One says announcer Claude Mouton “avec un dignitaire,” — the
“dignitaire” just happens to be Stan Musial. Another photo of Musial says “Qui est-ce?” (Who is this?) And the one under the picture of Bill White and Joe Torre, in which White not only looks like Bill White but is clearly wearing #7, calls him Bob Gibson.

If you will recall, wasn’t the whole idea behind the change in 2009 to “establish a more permanent identity so that when you see us on TV, you know this is who we are”? In the three-plus seasons since then, Jacksonville has tweaked the jersey fabric, the placement and shape of the jersey trim, the pants trim, worn black pants on the road, white pants on the road… Now they’ve finally switched completely to all black, effectively ditching teal which kinda makes the combo-color helmet (the only interesting part of the new set) completely irrelevant. What’s the point of having a helmet to work with both a black-centric set and a teal-centric set if there is no teal set?

And the Jaguars are completely redesigning their uniforms next season? Ummm…it hasn’t been five years yet since the last redesign. Move them to LA, this team has more fans in Jacksonville than the Jaguars anyways.

I’m curious about the NFL’s supposed 5 year rule. Does it still exist or did it expire when the NFL switched from Reebok to Nike? Also, how much does a team have to change to count as a change? In 2007, the Jaguars had white pants with teal-black-teal stripes (with thin gold stripes separating them). In 2008 they swapped the black & teal. Then in 2009 they came out with the current uniform. Did swapping the pant stripes not count as a uniform change?

The Jags haven’t worn their teal jerseys yet this year (they wore white at home in week 2), so I wonder if this was already planned in advance and Jacksonville wanted to keep it as a surprise. If so, then why didn’t they announce it back in April?

Also I think its worth mentioning that the last team to change their uniforms without waiting five years (besides Atlanta switching from black to red jerseys in 2004 one year after completely redesigning their uniforms–again I wonder if this was intentional) was the Patriots back in the mid-90’s. Somehow from 1993 to 2000, the Pats redesigned their uniform THREE times. The first time I could understand, as Robert Kraft just bought the team and wanted a fresh identity after the futility and scandal of the team in the early 1990’s. But another overhaul just two years later? Needless to say, the NFL made Kraft wait another five years before the Pats adopted their current, VERY UNDERRATED unis. Maybe he was why the NFL instituted the five-year rule.

Actually… I think that honor goes to the St Louis Rams, who changed their uniforms to the navy & gold for the 2000 season, then eliminated the gold side panels on their jerseys in 2002 (unless, of course, that doesn’t count as a big enough modification to be a “uniform change” under NFL rules)

James A|
September 28, 2012 at 7:38 pm |

Going back to the original PennDOT post, on 95 North as you enter PA, the first sponsored stretch is courtesy of an, ahem, adult video store. Ah, my beloved Delaware County!

Phil P|
September 28, 2012 at 11:13 am |

This is a couple weeks old, but in following my fave soccer team FC Porto I noticed the jersey they used recently in the Champions League http://static.foxspo...

Worst bit, and apropos of the conversation yesterday, is this quote from Brett Yormark, chief executive of the Nets and Barclays Center:

“The goal is to become a lifestyle brand. We want to transcend sports. We want people to consume us as often as possible.”

Makes me want to return those Nets caps I bought for my kids.

Steven|
September 28, 2012 at 11:48 am |

I agree that thinking a stadium full of people in the same colour shirt is “intimidating” to the opponent is silly. However, I do think it builds camaraderie among the fans…and maybe that does get us to yell a bit louder.

It’s not a bad thing, per se… but it needs to be done correctly. For an example of “wrong”, check the NBA playoffs last season: http://www.battlespo... Note the color of the crowd and that the home team is wearing white. It’s almost like they were going for confusion rather than intimidation.

Corey|
September 28, 2012 at 11:55 am |

RE: Lame-O set of Pitt football concepts
If you had managed to read the article you would have realized they were intentionally “lame-o” as a mockery of Nike and it’s design process.

Kevin Hastings|
September 28, 2012 at 12:17 pm |

Should have taken the train a couple hours south to see Cy Gonzalez.

Cory|
September 28, 2012 at 12:25 pm |

No mention of the unfortunate location of blood on Cleveland Browns center Alex Mack’s pants from last night?http://www.nypost.co...
I thought the guy was suffering from a serious medical condition but turns out Weeden had a cut on the top of his hand.

Giraffe|
September 28, 2012 at 1:20 pm |

Aww wook, it’s a cute ittle bigoted homophobe.

Take your loathing for gays and lesbians somewhere else scum.

Dumb Guy|
September 28, 2012 at 3:04 pm |

Wow, you got THAT from Cory’s post???

Chase|
September 28, 2012 at 4:02 pm |

That escalated quickly.

Cory|
September 28, 2012 at 4:42 pm |

Wow, yeah not sure where that came from. Didn’t think that was a medical condition. Think you need to settle down.

Only SME would have a audacity to criticize brand identities they created themselves… The new NETS logo retains the New Jersey shield, but drops the three-dimensional styling popularized in the 1990s. “That moment was all about in-your-face disruptive, bordering on cartoony,” said Edward O’Hara, senior partner at SME, and designer of the now-obsolete logo. “We tried to tell stories we didn’t need to tell — oh, look at me, I’m special and spinning, and I have teeth and nails.” Only a firm who is all about the buck and could care less about heritage or WINNING THE HEART, would be pompous enough suggest such a critique of their own brand miss.

There are parts of Nevada where prostitution is legal. And look t my post above, its already happened here. I think the Greek soccer club got inspiration from the most inept governmental bureaucracy in the world–on the one thing they did right.

Silver Creek Doug|
September 28, 2012 at 4:03 pm |

Nice hypocrisy on display.

Assume somebody made a homophobic comment and then call someone a term that disparages developmentally challenged people.

Hey! Adidas! How about you guys stop worrying about making reflective shoes and try to figure out how to create a jersey with proper UCLA stripes?

walter|
September 28, 2012 at 2:57 pm |

What this guy said:) Honestly, how would it be if Majestic told the Yankees, “No, we don’t do pinstripes; pick something else.”

Michael Emody|
September 28, 2012 at 8:27 pm |

I agree that UCLA (and any team with a design with stripes over the shoulder) would look 100% better if they connected the stripes. UCLA, with the small numbers and the “Union officer sized shoulder insignia” just lookscrappy.

(Also, a college ball, with white stripes. Not an NFL ball with no stripes.)

daveclt|
September 28, 2012 at 4:04 pm |

A few things about the Jags.

1. During their last unveiling (2009?), the owner stressed how he wanted to get back to basics of 1 home design and 1 away, to help build their brand. Do they still have the same owner? If so, it makes today’s announcement even more lame.

2. The article says they are getting a new design in 2013. Is this a brand new overhaul? Or just a tweak to the black jersey?

3. The Jags are in trouble. Playing in Europe, switching to black. This franchise is doing anything to survive. I think they are the leading candidate for LA.

But exciting for me, since it’s pretty much the first time this has happened for a team I cheer for.

Beats|
September 28, 2012 at 5:40 pm |

Have you broken open the double dipped bottle of Makers yet, or are you waiting for them to officially win the East and not the bogus double wild card spot.

Arr Scott|
September 28, 2012 at 5:47 pm |

The bottle says “pennant.” In my book, that means either division title or, for a Wild Card team, an LCS victory. Trying to figure out how to make a bit of an event of it for some folks in the DC area, so let me know if you’re in the region!

Hawai’i’s jerseys look awesome with the Polynesian designs in the yokes. Their pant stripes look awful. If it connected to the waistband and to the bottom of the legs I don’t think it would look too bad. UA needs to fix this!