The Flake Elevator Ambush was Well-Planned and Well-Financed

Ana Maria Archila was one of the two women who confronted Senator Jeff Flake in a Capitol Hill elevator in what has quickly become a viral video. But according to the now rather famous Archila - an apparent survivor of sexual assault - it was not about confrontation when she demanded that the senator look her in the eye, it was about connecting. Here’s Archila on Monday on CBS News speaking about the event:

I connected to him because he's a father, I am a mother. This is not just about us today, not just about the politics of this moment; this is about the lives of the people we love so much.

But that wasn't enough for CBS' Norah O'Donnell, who asked Archila:
When that elevator door closed with Senator Flake, did you think that history might change?

Even Archila had to tamp down that sort of bombast on the part of O'Donnell. But I'm sure she wasn't overly displeased with the interview.

Archila is one of two co-executive directors of the Center for Popular Democracy, a progressive advocacy group that receives millions in funding from George Soros. Her elevator rumble seems to, in fact, have been a fairly well-prepared ambush, one that is part of a well-planned campaign to sink Kavanaugh's confirmation by targeting a handful of GOP moderate senators and Democrat centrist senators. It seems they've decided that Flake is easier picking than Senator Manchin, for example.

So, they ambush and embarrass Flake and then get him to join Democrats and suggest an FBI investigation. A background investigation that will mostly cover ground that Senate Judiciary Committee staffers are equipped and hired to do. And will be mercilessly attacked as insufficient and rushed.

The Center for Popular Democracy seems to have roots in ACORN - a fairly hard-left association of community organizations that is now defunct - and is well-connected with numerous other similarly-minded groups. And receives plenty of funding from Soros and apparently The Democracy Alliance - a group of liberal and progressive deep-pocketed donors who operate far from the limelight. Their sister organization, Make the Road, was behind the JFK protests over President Trump's travel ban.

The CPD's aim is to stop and resist the Trump administration at every turn. And the elevator ambush was just one of a multi-level series of tactics that combine guerilla marketing street smarts with old, liberal money and everything in between, all in order to try and disrupt Trump's administration.

If they somehow manage to sabotage Kavanaugh's nomination, one can imagine the kind of pressure they will apply on the Democratic Party to delay any new nominee until 2020. Maybe they should enjoy all this increased attention in the spotlight between now and November. It might just help turn out the vote. The GOP vote, that is.

In my opinion, Flake wanted to become the center of attention and he has. He wants good job offers from big Dem business people and his cowardly and sniveling act supposedly enhances his resume. Frankly, I would not hire this man for any decision-making position that requires competence and trust.

I do not yet know what Senator Flake’s motives are, but IF Flake switches from his previous “YES” to a “NO” for Kavanaugh (without any evidence against Kavanaugh’s assumption of innocence until proven guilty), then I think many will tend to agree that Senator Flake is wishy washy (to say the least), and Flake has no problem in condemning a man based on NO evidence (like many on the left).

The way liberals are acting all over the country is increasingly despicable. The people George Soros is funding are not engaging only in free speech and 1st amendment rights. Many on the left are stalking, cornering, harassing, and in some cases, beating up people that disagree with them.
For example:

All of the examples that AllardK posted above in the main article.

Ted Cruz is cornered, harassed, and run out of restaurant:
www.westernjournal.com/ct/alert-ted-cruz-wife-attacked-escape-staff-struggle-door/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=WJBreaking&utm_campaign=ct-breaking&utm_content=western-journal

Chicago Torture Incident is not Isolated - Trump Supporters have been violently attacked ALL OVER THE COUNTRY:
dailycaller.com/2017/01/05/chicago-torture-not-isolated-incident-trump-supporters-have-been-violently-attacked-all-over-the-country/

Attacks are so bad on Trump supports, that many schools banned all Trump branded hats and clothing:
www.gq.com/story/trump-gear-in-school

Congressperson Maxine Waters is inciting people to “harass” and hound (or worse) members of the Trump administration:
www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/25/maxine_waters_god_is_on_our_side.html

Kirstjen Nielsen, is confronted by protesters who chant ‘shame’ as she dines at a Mexican restaurant:
www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2018/jun/20/protesters-confront-us-homeland-security-secretary-kirstjen-nielsen-mexican-restaurant-video

Mitch McConnell is harassed at restaurant, and showed up at his house while his wife, U.S. Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao were there:
www.newsweek.com/how-long-harassment-trump-officials-gets-out-control-opinion-1018085

Candace Owens harassed and hounded out of restaurant:
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-candace-owens-charlie-kirk-protestors-restaurant-a8480746.html

Stephen Miller, a White House adviser, was also harassed last week when he tried to dine at an upscale Mexican eatery in Washington.

Florida Attorney General, Pam Bondi was confronted by a group of protesters outside the screening of a documentary about Mister Rogers in Tampa. A video of the confrontation shows the Florida AG leaving the theater as several people yell at her, with one woman seen shouting at her about Bondi’s recent actions on health care policy and her stance on immigration.

“… based on specific and credible threats that have been levied against certain DHS employees and a sharp increase in the overall number of general threats against DHS employees — although the veracity of each threat varies,” the memo from acting deputy secretary of homeland security Claire M. Grady stated, according to CBS News. “In addition, over the last few days, thousands of employees have had their personally identifiable information publically [sic] released on social media.”:
www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/25/trump-officials-hounded-and-harassed-as-protester-tactics-take-turn.html

Actor Peter Fonda posted on his Twitter to: : “… rip Barron Trump from his mother’s arms and put him in a cage with pedophiles.”

And Steve Scalise knows firsthand the dangerous consequences that can result from making political differences personal and vitriolic:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Scalise

More … many people being attacked by anti-Trump thugs, more burning, rioting, and violence by many on the left:
www.westernjournal.com/trumpatwar/fullmovie/?ffv_puid=2801390

No wonder so many people are afraid to say they voted for, and/or support Trump.
And, while it may not be illegal, it appears George Soros is funding some of the protests.
For example:

Soros has ties to 50 partners of “Women’s March on Washington”:
womenintheworld.com/2017/01/20/billionaire-george-soros-has-ties-to-more-than-50-partners-of-the-womens-march-on-washington/

Many in Europe also blame Soros for protests: foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/10/whos-afraid-of-george-soros/

One thing is for certain; It is hypocritical for George Soros to be against the Supreme Court decision (i.e. the Supreme Court ruled to not limit federal campaign finance limits), but George Soros is using his Billion$ to influence government (see below). The government is not supposed to be FOR-SALE.

The real majority of voters are the voters who don’t go to the polls. The real majority don’t vote at all.

That sounds like it’s changing. People who have stayed out of politics are realizing their vote will matter this time. They’re not interested in voting for free stuff, because they didn’t get the free stuff to begin with. They were simply standing on the sidelines and working for a living.

Now, I believe, they see a direct threat to our way of life and are motivated to thwart it. When patriots see their country in danger they act. I believe they will act during this midterm. They will arm themselves with a ballot and they will use that ballot to reclaim our country.

You throw up a handful of supposed “stalking, cornering, harassing, and in some cases, beating up people that disagree with them.” instances and it amounts to almost nothing. Tell you what while you and Allred try to spin the latest conservative myth into something real why not post a list of death threats from conservatives “all over the country” aimed at anyone who would defy their ideology?

Trying to convince conservatives they are under attack and then providing this puny list of supposed threats is laughable. You try to convince independents to vote conservative because liberals are “thugs”! You try to convince conservatives they are under attack by liberals! Yet you only show one half of the picture. You should be proud of yourself, I believe Goebbels would have been.

Let me remind you guys as you desperately spin this line of crap that during the campaign Trump asked the crowd to kick the crap out of a protestor. But that isn’t all, he threatened to jail his opponent in the 2016 election if he were elected. Trump has threatened many senior officials in the Russian probe as well.

But that is only Trump, it doesn’t include those threats your team made to Maxine Walters or those victims of the Parkland school massacre. And that is only the tip of the iceberg. Nor does it include all the Trumpsters who have committed violence or threatened violence against reporters and others on the left.

So all this projecting in your “facts” D. could be merely those on the left reacting to defending themselves from the violence and hatred shown by Trump and his Thugs.

J2, you really should read up on the subject before jumping in, else people are going to make you look real silly.

The leftist violence infecting our nation is not the normal threats and loose cannons we usually see. They are organized and they are embolden by the party that has embraced them.
You guys really do need to put them back in the holes they crawled out of.

I’m thankful for the new media that doesn’t toe the line with Democratics. Without them Kavanaugh would have been hanging by his balls from a corner lamppost by now.

Can you imaging a Trump administration without his Twitter account? Twitter has created their own monster. It’s good to have both sides exposed to the sunlight. We have to thank the new media and the 2-way communication social media has provided.

Our biggest challenge right now is keeping the internet/social media free from bias from the top. Google would save a bundle if they got rid of the content police and algorithm programmers that seek out content they don’t like. Hate speech to them is speech they hate, not speech that promotes hate. Google and the Social media platforms have overstepped their bounds by trying to censor based on their own opinions. That’s not reflective of the town square they claim it to be. Town squares don’t have content police.

Royal perhaps we haven’t heard anything about the Russian probe because those involved have been “Putined”, but more likely because Trump controls the message going out to Americans much more so than he did a year ago. The corporate press seems to be caught up on Kavanaugh and other diversions, the Conservative press seems to be feeding you guys the latest talking points like the tripe in this thread.

Oh please kctim stop with the BS. You are as bad as AllardK with his laughable conspiracy theory. He would have us believe Soros spent millions to have a week long FBI background check on Kavanaugh! This theatrics by Flake was repub damage control and nothing more. But hey what do I know, can anyone show me where these two women asked for a one week dog and pony show by the FBI?

You would have us believe it is “leftist” violence only, and that it is “organized” by some invisible hand or what exactly, kctim? In fact nothing could be further from the truth. This flim flam message from conservatives is vague and cannot be backed up by real facts. Just because someone got their MAGA hat knocked off their head while fighting with a girl at a protest doesn’t mean it is violence nor that it is organized.

D. what crap is this “Anti-Kavanaugh protestors linked to Soros:
www.foxnews.com/politics/anti-kavanaugh-protesters-accosting-senators-have-ties-to-soros ? Archila is a member of the CDP and it may get some funds from a Soros backed source. SO what. The CDP isn’t some sinister group like the NRA and other groups cavorting with Russian spies, it is a non-profit group.

You spin it to make it sound like Soros is some kind of bad guy, but he isn’t. Trump makes the man look like a saint.

BTW you have made the claim “No wonder so many people are afraid to say they voted for, and/or support Trump.” yet you haven’t backed it up with any real facts. Who here on WB has lied about voting for Trump to protect themselves from getting their hat pulled off their head or some such “stalking, cornering, harassing, and in some cases, beating up people that disagree with them.”? Has any legitimate person did this, I don’t mean political operatives like Kavanaugh.

I didn’t mention Soros or anything. I do find it quite amusing to see you, the king of Koch brothers and Putin conspiracy theories, mocking others.

‘Real facts’ show that there has been a significant increase in the number of leftist groups and membership. Groups like bamn, antifa, WWP and blm are only the tip of the iceberg. There are countless other groups just like them.
‘Real facts’ show that they are responsible for the uptick in political riots, destruction of property, and violence aimed at those who simply do not agree with them. Today, these actions are commonplace.
‘Real facts’ show that democratic ‘leaders’ and media either ignore or embrace the actions of these people.

‘Real facts’ show that this amount of division and unrest was not as prevalent under President Obama. Tea Party rallies were peaceful and non-destructive. The rare political violence was, and still is, condemned by those on the right. Right-wing ‘leaders’ bend over backwards to condemn and marginalize so-called right-wing extremism.

You know, I honestly can’t tell if you are just uninformed about the subject, or if you actually support this leftist violence and are being an apologist for it.

You know, I honestly can’t tell if you are just uninformed about the subject, or if you actually support this leftist violence and are being an apologist for it.

And I honestly am dumbfounded as to why you guys on the right would equate running into a bunch of people at a rally, killing and maiming whilst doing so, with getting a hat knocked off your head while fighting with a girl at a protest.

Your side seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill over what is violence and “stalking, cornering, harassing, and in some cases, beating up people that disagree with them.” and what isn’t violence kctim. The reason, I suppose, is to rally the troops and to fool independents into voting in the mid terms. But according to D. the list of Trump accomplishments would seem to be enough to gain your side a sweep in the elections, as exaggerated as they may be.

BTW when are you guys gonna start doing the YMCA song tune for the USMCA? I can see it now, get rid of the Indian and the blacks, keep the cowboy, construction guy, the cop, and the biker type, throw in a couple of old white guys as corporate executives and a KKK type and there you are. Should go over well for the mid terms.

Real facts’ show that there has been a significant increase in the number of leftist groups and membership. Groups like bamn, antifa, WWP and blm are only the tip of the iceberg. There are countless other groups just like them.

Prove it. Show me what I don’t see kctim. Countless other groups….

I am willing to bet you are the victim of some conservative disinformation/propaganda program intended to rile you up. You need to remember all those conservatives who threatened “civil war” just a year or so ago. Focused as you are on the “violent left” you don’t see the big picture from those that control the message, the conservative movement. They have been arming you guys up for years and y’all have been out playing weekend warrior and open carry scary for some time. Now you just need to be willing to sacrifice for your country as the man in the previous comment has asked.

Nobody is equating what happened to Heyer with a guy getting his hat knocked off. Well, that is nobody but you in trying to deflect from the real issue.
It is an absolute fact that leftist intimidation, destruction and violence has increased. It is a fact that left-wing ‘leaders’ and media have done little to condemn them. They ignore leftist rallies calling for violence and the end of capitalism, and blab non-stop about how a couple dozen people at a Unite the Right rally means America is being invaded by nazi’s and white supremacists.
Those on the right are doing no such thing, and the few who do are marginalized.

The reason people are pointing this out is because these leftists have created a powder-keg that is ready to explode. Sooner or later normal American’s are going to tire of the threats and violence and start responding in kind. There are already examples of this happening out west.

The lefts hate has gotten out of control and sooner or later it’s going to bite you guys in the a$$. Just like it did in 2016.

- According to NYC Antifa, the group’s Twitter following nearly quadrupled in the first three weeks of January alone. (By summer, it exceeded 15,000.) Trump’s rise has also bred a new sympathy for antifa among some on the mainstream left.

“You need to remember all those conservatives who threatened “civil war” just a year or so ago.”

Low number marginalized fringe that nobody but those pushing an agenda paid any attention to. Today, we have thousands marching in the streets promoting violence and the end of capitalism. We have leftist politicians promoting racism and, violence against the President and his administration. We have leftist activists threatening and intimidating politicians, speakers, and normal Americans who dare display the American flag.

“Now you just need to be willing to sacrifice for your country as the man in the previous comment has asked.”

Kctim, you are talking about the anarchist antifa which are small numbers of counter protestors at right wing Fascist rallies. The numbers are miniscule and they both gather to mix it up.

D. would have us believe it is the entire left because protestors seek out Trump administration officials to protest. Big difference.

It is Trump who has divided the country, well this time around at least. But lets flashback to the real divider….Newt Gingrich. He started the division to gain votes back when he was in Congress. It has continued with him and his ilk fanning the flames since then.

Yep life before Obama. I know many of you on the right don’t believe there was anything before Obama,…well… except Clinton. Anyway Trump is using the same tactics Gingrich and Goebbels used. Now Gingrich didn’t attack the press directly like his two counterparts but he did get you guys worked up about the liberal bias in the media, before there was a corporate press and bias in the news room.

So here we are today with the conservative press pounding disinformation into Trump followers faster than ever before. So you guys come up with this little list of supposed “violence” and it turns out to be much ado about nothing yet you, and many more in the conservative press, insist upon making a mountain out of it.

After inciting so many on the left so many times with calls for civil war and Trumps denunciations of the dems, liberals and the free press. One can only wonder why hasn’t there been more real violence from the liberals and dems. You guys certainly have no room to talk about violence.

Oh come on Royal the SNL sketch said it better than the original. As far as sources, SNL seems to be more of a accurate reflection of the facts than many conservative news sources like Breitbart and Faux News.

As an example recently Faux news aired a Trump speech at the U.N. but cut out the attendees laughing at Trump. Not with Trump, at Trump.

I don’t watch late night comedy shows. I don’t think they are news programs and I don’t find their humor entertaining. Evidently j2t2 finds them important.

Oh come on Weary, you don’t watch Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson or any of the other right wing comedy shows? What about Red Eye when it was on?

If I agree with you, everything I believe in is in question from then on.
Am I wrong?

How sad for you Weary.

Of course that kind of attitude is wrong. In politics you have gone from a representative democracy to authoritarianism with this attitude. Unfortunately it isn’t just you. Half of our fellow Americans have also been sucked in to the propaganda from the conservative movement.

This does explain why when you were wrong in the past you gave up credibility rather than to admit you were wrong. The things you do to hold true to this principle!

How many people have the Trump administration arrested and put in jail, j2t2? I’m waiting for the evidence of this authoritarianism you speak of. I don’t see it.

Why hasn’t Trump mobilized the military against Antifa and BLM? If he was an authoritarian why would he put up with people marching in the streets protesting him? I don’t see the connection between your statement and Trump’s actions. There’s no there there, j2t2!

I think it’s all in your head. You’ve convinced yourself this is happening when it isn’t. I actually think, based on some of the comments you’ve made, that you’ve lost touch with reality. To think The Onion, Bill Mahr, and SNL are credible news sources is really stretching your credibility. You shouldn’t be throwing stones if you live in a glass house.

If you ever visited Breitbart and read some of their articles you would find that the sources they use in their stories are from the MSM. They link to interviews done by CNN, MSNBC, and many other left leaning media. I can watch an entire interviews done by these outlets courtesy of Breitbart.

I really never understood why Drudge was so vilified also. All he did was accumulate a variety of different stories from different sources and put them all in one place. Drudge actually gave you both sides of a story. Perhaps that’s why the left vilifies him.

Based on your accusations about Breitbart, I am assuming you never read anything on that site. You simply vilify it out of ignorance along with any other news organization you consider right leaning.

That’s probably why we could never agree on anything, j2t2. You’ll never even listen to or consider an opposing view.

That article on Authoritarians hasn’t mentioned one thing Trump has done to merit the label.

What’s funny about that article is how the researchers say they couldn’t come up with the conclusions they wanted so they changed the questions. They changed them to ask about opinions on parenting. Once they got the 4 questions they wanted they actually came to the conclusion that everyone who voted for Trump is an authoritarian! How convenient!

When it was all said and done what the researchers have done, in my opinion, is they found a poll that measures degrees of pacifism.

What struck me is how the behavior of Antifa and BLM, of certain congress people, employers, social media giants, all escape the moniker of Authoritarian when they demand this and that from people they disagree with. Attacking people while they eat a meal in a public restaurant isn’t authoritarian? Who knew?

I don’t know if you read the entire article, j2t2, but what I got from it was that the researchers couldn’t fit Trump supporters into the pigeonhole they wanted them in so they changed the poll. Once they had the answers they wanted they attributed them to every Trump supporter unanimously.

In any case, no where in the article does it state what Trump has done to merit the label of authoritarian, so you failed to answer the question.

Thanks for the link in comment 432410 j2t2. We now know the type of reading material that appeals to you.

Revisionist Historical fiction.

I have not yet decided if you have a “love” or “hate” affair going on with the Nazi’s. What is clear with your obsession, is that you don’t understand much about their goals and aims as you erroneously ascribe them to any political belief you don’t like.

j2t2’s insistence on dividing people into purely political entities; and them labeling them “good” or “evil” based upon his parameters, is becoming a mental aberration.

You are welcome Royal but to say it is revisionist history is merely your wishful opinion. Realize that I am simply the messenger here, providing the link to the book you have offered your quantitative and qualitative analysis on by reading a review from a newspaper. Hopefully you won’t be to upset if I disagree with your analysis as it seems to be a quickly formed opinion based upon nothing but your hatred.

I have a better idea Weary, educate your own self. It seems the author of the book in question is the real deal. Royal on the other hand spouted his biased opinion without bothering to get his facts together. I know….I know…..what a surprise..right?

Democrats need to step up and stop encouraging violence, harassment, stalking, and shooting people that don’t agree with them.

Over the last 3 years, Democrats have developed a reputation for encouraging harassment, thuggishness, and violence, such as Representative Maxine Waters who said:

California Representative Maxine Waters said: “If you see anybody from the [Trump] Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station — you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. Tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere!”

There have been instances of violence in the past from both far left and far right groups.

But today, it is mostly Democrats.
Where are the Democrats that should have denounced Maxine Waters’ encouraging harassment (or worse)?

“you are talking about the anarchist antifa which are small numbers of counter protestors at right wing Fascist rallies”

Actually, I’m talking about all the leftist groups that have popped up, their violent and destructive actions, and how that is bleeding over into the normal left-wing populace and leaders. And how they are ‘counter protesting’ anybody who simply disagree’s with them, not any actual “right wing fascist rallies.”

“After inciting so many on the left so many times with calls for civil war”

The few, marginalized people who did that is not the same as tens of thousands of leftist activists marching and calling for it.

“and Trumps denunciations of the dems, liberals and the free press.”

Trump hasn’t condemned the free press, only the biased press.

“One can only wonder why hasn’t there been more real violence from the liberals and dems.”

Because after destruction of property and targeting, intimidating and attacking individuals simply for their beliefs, the next step on the violence ladder is bombings and murder. Right now, with the help of a biased media, the leftists are happy simply attacking American’s while inside their safe little liberal enclaves.

Based on history of the last few centuries, one might say the left-extremists, or the right-extremists are more dangerous.

The fact is, BOTH are dangerous.
As for the most people killed and harmed by extremists, that would probably be Stalin and Mao, who were left-wing extremists.
As for the most people killed and harmed by extremists, that would probably be the Nazis and Mussolini, who were right-wing extremists.
But, so what?
Extremists of any kind, left or right, are all dangerous.

And when left-wing extremists clash with right-wing extremists, the best thing that can happen is nothing, or they do whatever they want without damaging any property owned by innocent bystanders, and without harming any innocent bystanders or police.

However, since the 2016 election, there have been numerous incidents of violence, harassment, and thuggishness from the left. And Congressman Steve Scalise was shot by a left-wing extremist (14-JUN-2017) who was targeting Republicans.

And, Rep. Maxine Waters (Representative of the 43rd District of south Los Angeles, California) is encouraging thuggish behavior against Trump supporters (25-JUN-2018): Maxine Waters stated: “If you see anybody from that [i.e. Trump, or Trump supporter] Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd, and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.”

There are plenty of extremists on the left and right.
But most (if not all) of this anti-Trump hatred, harassment, and violence is coming from the left-extremists, which includes some people in Congress who encourage thuggishness against Trump supporters (Rep. Maxine Waters), and those in Congress who stoop to dirty, low tricks, leaks (Dianne Feinstein), etc. to derail a supreme court confirmation, without a shred of evidence.

D., Please show me where I called you a Nazi. This type of deflection is typical but it is incorrect. Read the links I have posted in this thread and you may see yourself in them. IMHO you seem to have a bit of a guilty conscience, perhaps with good reason, as it was you with the Soros/Rothschild/Jews paying people to protest disinformation.

Lets take a look at this threat from the left guys. D. after scouring the internet has found a few instances of spur of the moment probably instigated attacks by individuals they believe are liberals or whatever. If it were mass killings by right wing extremist they would be characterized as “The few, marginalized people who did that” by those on the right. But because they are supposedly on the left it is described as “all the leftist groups that have popped up, their violent and destructive actions, and how that is bleeding over into the normal left-wing populace and leaders.”

Then we see the grouping of the anarchist antifa with the dems (or democratics in Weary’s case)and liberals in the writings of conservatives as they seek to blend all these different groups into one. Just like they have blended clashes at protest with someone getting a hat knocked off their head. When you combine that with the failure of conservatives to acknowledge the death threats, the killings and the attacks on dems, liberals and leftist by conservative groups and individuals it becomes important.

But hey we have come to expect that from you guys. Now that conservatives through a coup of the SCOTUS now control all 3 branches of government we find these mischaracterized descriptions of violence to be a much larger threat than just the normal election cycle prattle by fearful conservatives. The Authoritarian nature of conservatism has reared it’s head as they seek to keep their iron grip on and continue to consolidate power in this country.

That D. is why it is important for you guys to read the links in this thread and give them serious consideration. It’s not to late to turn from the Fascism , or as you know it; Populism, you guys have embraced. What you guys, in the past several threads here on WB, have done is typical of Fascism.

Unfortunately it has been a long term trend with conservatives as they have moved further and further to the right. I would also suggest you guys get a copy of of this book and do a bit of soul searching.

So you are now calling people here Facists.
What is the difference?
You are calling people here Facists and Nazis, and in other threads too.
We understand your insinuations in your links to articles you posted about Nazis and Facists.

Calling people here Facists or Nazis, and/or insinuating the same through links about Nazis and Facists, makes you the true extremist.

The fact is, I have seen very few people on Watchblog that would qualify as a true Nazi or Facist.

But that doesn’t matter one bit to you.
You refuse to acknowledge the rise in violence by the left since 2016, who hate Trump, and hate Trump supporters.

But that’s OK with me.
You can believe whatever you want.
You can believe everyone who disagrees with you is a Facist or Nazi.
It won’t do much for your credibility, but have at it IF that is what makes you happy.

D. You really don’t understand, you are mistaken once again. I have said the same thing for the past few years, the good and decent people of Germany in the 20’s and early 30’s were victims of the propaganda and then the actions of the Nazi’s.

I am not calling you or anyone a Nazi, I am saying many conservatives have fallen victim to the Fascist. I am saying the tactics used by conservatives for many years are out of the Nazi playbook. I am saying conservatives are going farther and farther to the right.

That is why I ask you to read the posted links and understand where Trump is leading us.

Let me give you an example. You struggle hard to justify the “left wing violence” you hear about from the conservative propaganda machine. Yet it amounts to nothing but talk. However it allows over time for the administration to pass laws that restrict the freedom of their political opponents. You will agree when the time comes because you have accepted the ruse.

“If it were mass killings by right wing extremist they would be characterized as “The few, marginalized people who did that” by those on the right.”

That is because such actions are extremely rare, are committed by one person, and condemned by right-wing leaders and voters.

“But because they are supposedly on the left it is described as “all the leftist groups that have popped up, their violent and destructive actions, and how that is bleeding over into the normal left-wing populace and leaders.”

That is because the number of these violent leftist groups has exploded under Trump, and they alone are responsible for the increase in the violence and destruction. Yet, left-wing leaders and media ignore or make excuses for their actions.

“When you combine that with the failure of conservatives to acknowledge the death threats, the killings”

The death threats are not one sided or anything new.
The ‘killings’ you speak of exist only in your head. 1 activist at a violent counter-protest was hit by a car and died. Terrible, but it’s not like she was attacked while just sitting there eating dinner, or shot at while playing softball.

“and the attacks on dems, liberals and leftist by conservative groups and individuals it becomes important.”

That is not what is happening J2.
Groups on the right are not attacking any of those groups. In fact, dems, liberals and leftists hold their rally’s, listen to their speakers, and wear their Obama and Che shirts every day without incident.
Groups on the right are not marching in streets by the tens of thousands, calling for the death of the President and the end of the country or it’s institutions, by any means necessary.
Groups on the right are not ambushing and threatening elected representatives that they disagree with.
Groups on the right are not charging into peaceful rallies with weapons and attacking people.

d.a.n is absolutely correct: “There are plenty of extremists on the left and right.” But at this time in our history, the leftist extremists are THE problem our country faces. Not some mythical fascists or nazi’s nonsense.

What laws have been passed that restrict the freedom of their political opponents?

The voter suppression laws and the gerrymandering that has been done the past decade for starters Weary.

The fact is, I have seen very few people on Watchblog that would qualify as a true Nazi or Facist.
But that doesn’t matter one bit to you.

D. stop for a minute and get past the idea I am just name calling. That is not the case. I am not saying you or others here on WB are out in the open Fascist who want to do exactly what Hitler and Mussolini did. I am saying you are like the good people of Germany who simply wanted the best for their country after WWI. They fell for promises from the NAZI party just like you guys fall for the conservative propagandist. You guys don’t realize how far to the right “conservatism” has swung since the 60’s.

kctim. you are wrong when you try to make a mountain out of a molehill. I know you may believe what you are saying to be true but you are the victim of conservative propaganda, as I have stated in the previous comment.

You would have us believe that right wing violence is not happening yet it is, perhaps not at the same high level of the past 3 decades this past year. Trying to pawn it off as “extremely rare” is wrong , you may think it rare but that is because you listen to conservative propaganda not news. That is why you think there is so much violence from dems and liberals today. You have failed to prove this statement relying, I guess on D. and his small list of supposed attacks, talk about extremely rare!

Look guys D. has given us a list of supposedly violent attacks and most of them are demonstrations targeting administration officials and involve no violence. At some point you will need to acknowledge this and stop helping conservative propagandist set the stage for a Reichstag Fire event, which seems to be their goal.

When you are as misinformed as kctim you make false claims about how your side is not the problem. This can have serious consequences as the people of Germany and the world found out in the late ‘30’s.

Look at the track record of the conservative movement and what they have done to take over all three branches of the federal government. You guys like to defend the coup of the SCOTUS but we all know it was an assault on the Constitution. Conservatives have gerrymandered and suppress the vote to the point we have minority rule in this country. You guys defend that with some variation of the conservative principle “it isn’t the truth that matters, but victory”. Yet it is dangerous to our representative democracy.

J2, if I was wrong you would be posting your own list of examples. You would be showing us how right-wing groups are marching in the streets and destroying property. You would be showing us right-wing groups attacking people for what they believe in. You would be showing us right-wing groups attacking leftist rallies. You would be showing us right-wing groups ambushing and threatening left-wing politicians and their families.
Instead, you have to avoid the issue with the ‘conservative propaganda’ nonsense.

“You would have us believe that right wing violence is not happening”

Sigh. No, I have said no such thing. In fact, I just got done saying that I agree with d.a.n and that “There are plenty of extremists on the left and right.”

What I want you to believe are the facts.
Political extremism, both left and right, is alive and well in our country, and the vast majority of American’s have done a good job through the years marginalizing them. When they dare commit their cowardly acts, it is almost always a single event by a lone individual. Acts that are condemned by our government officials and we the people.
What we are seeing today though, is large groups of organized leftists destroying property, threatening and attacking those they disagree with, and attacking our government, our institutions, and our sovereignty.
There is nothing coming from the right that comes even close to that.

I really hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but there’s not going to be a Reichstag moment any time soon. We have nothing in common with 1930s Germany. There was no coup of the SCOTUS. Those are nothing but baseless talking-points designed to inject fear and get some votes.
If any of those were true, you would be able to make a valid argument for it, instead of always having to deflect with “conservative propaganda.”

You are only comparing people to those who followed and supported Nazis and Facists.

Ha ha. Nonsense.
There is no difference.
You did not make that distinction in your early accusations.

Now you are twisting into a pretzel, to rationalize your calling people Nazis and Facists.

And you don’t think that is extreme?
And you don’t think the way Kavanaugh was extreme?
And you don’t see a trend of extremism on the left since 2016?
And you don’t think protesters beating and clawing at the doors of the Supreme Court is extreme?
And you don’t think “Guilty until proven innocent” is extreme?
And you don’t think calling (or comparing people to) Nazis and Facists is extreme.

People that run around calling people (who don’t agree with them) and comparing them to Nazis and Facists are, ironically, the actual Nazi-like Facists.

Such statements like that, and others, especially since 2016, from Hillary, and from CA. Rep. Maxine Waters, and similar ilk, which encourage thuggishness, harassment, bullying, stalking, and other threats, is only a step away from people being shot (like Steve Scalise who was shot, Rand Paul beaten, etc., etc., etc.) and possibly killed, if such irresponsible rhetoric continues.

The irony of all the things Hillary said in her CNN 09-OCT-2018 interview, like j2t2, is that they are attributing behavior to others, that they, themselves, and their own party, are most guilty of, and are the true source of the majority of incivility, thuggishness, and threats (especially, since year 2016).

j2t2 thinks anyone who diagrees is delusional, and on the road to being a Nazi and a Facist.

The thuggishness, threats, and incivility from the left is why many people are afraid to say the voted-for, or support Trump. They don’t want to be harassed, beaten, or worse. It might also explain some of the polls being so far off in 2016.

j2t2’s response to all this is that it is all FAKE news and by the conservative propaganda machine, and j2t2 posts yet another link about Nazis and Facists.

Yet, j2t2 wrote:

Why would the same people who insulted and lied about Obama for 8 years think they deserve respect now that Trump is president?

Even IF Obama never lied about anything:

How does that justify thuggishness, threats, stalking, harassing, and shooting people?

How does that justify attacking people with Trump stickers on their cars?

How does that justify attacking people with Trump hats and “Make America Great Again” hats?

How does that justify “Guilty until proven innocent” and the treatment of Kavanaugh, without a shred of evidence?

How does that justify clawing and beating on the doors of the Supreme Court?

How does that justify vowing to impeach Kavanaugh?

How does that justify vowing to impeach Trump? For what?

How does that justify rioting and burning ?

How does that justify stealing a 16 year old’s hat and throwing a drink in his face?

How does that justify calling anyone who diagrees a Nazi or Facist?

Based on j2t2’s comments, Trump and Trump supporters not only deserve no respect, it seems clearly evident now that j2t2 also believes that Trump and supporters deserve to be attacked, bloodied, shot (like Steven Scalise), perhaps, even killed?
After all, we are all just a bunch of Nazis and Facists who have been brainwashed by the conservative propaganda machine, and we all need to look deep inside to understant what j2t2 is saying.

phx8 and j2t2 need to condemn people’s rhetoric such as Maxine Waters and Hillbilly. There’s no room for debate in such rhetoric. They are presenting and leaving only one condition, submission to their will.

You cannot be civil to a political party..

There should be an “ism” for that statement. There is no common ground offered, or asked for. That was a simple statement that erases the line and claims the whole.

There’s no debating with that, so why bother. I think and pray I get to experience the same relief and satisfaction and sense of accomplishment next month that I experienced in November of 2016! We’re a long way from winning this war and 2018 is a major battle.

2012 was considered a major battle for Obamacare. They also thought the Obama legacy would be written in stone during Hillbilly’s reign. They took us for granted and we won that battle. We’ll win this one and the one in 2020 because we know know we have to! Hillbilly erased the line! Maxine Waters erased the line! We’ve got no line to toe!

It’s time to fight back and the silent majority is still silent, but their voice will be loud and clear in Nov.

The outrage they profess all because Hillary made a truthful comment. Meanwhile Trump tells us he could shoot somebody on Park Avenue and not lose votes. Of course the sad thing is Trump is right on this issue. Just as Clinton is right when she says ” “I want to stop the degrading of the rule of law. The delegitimizing of elections. One of their priorities should be, let’s protect our elections. Let’s make sure that we have electoral security. Let’s end the suppression of voters. So there is a big agenda if the Democrats take over.” as part of the same comment they are so butt hurt over, cause..well… it happened after 2016.

Of course D. tries to make it sound as if this rhetoric is all one sided, talk about living in the conservative propaganda vacuum! I mean they have wanted to “water the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants” for years, just not rightwing blood..right? I would say it is time for the right wing to rephrase, how about “water the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots” and drop the tyrant part? Because when you rule with a minority of the votes you are a tyrant.

We thank j2t2 for the link to the Anti-Defamation League H.E.A.T. map. Here’s an excerpt of the data points used. Notice the difference in years tracked between Right-wing and Left-wing. Six years more for Right-wing. Anyone can easily see how biased the data points are. Nearly every data point consists of people who are “white”.

The ADL is closely aligned with the SPLC, NAACP and Other Left-Wing Groups.

“The initial data in the new map consists of more than 4,500 data points representing a range of extremist activities, including:

j2t2 is looking in all the wrong places for a fair and balanced report on the political groups supporting violence.

The ADL Chooses Anti-Trump over Anti-Semitism

“Greenblatt’s (CEO of ADL) priority was clearly to keep the ADL in sync with liberal political opinion, with little regard for backing Israel and even less for creating a big tent in which Republicans would be as welcome as Democrats.”

So it isn’t the information that is wrong but the source of the information? How about we include Tucker Carlson in the mix?

“The politically conservative Daily Caller News Foundation using data from the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START), found 92% of all “ideologically motivated homicide incidents” committed in the United States from 2007 to 2016 were motivated by right-wing extremism or white supremacism”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

The facts remain the same Royal, You all have been uncivil for years as you defended these attacks. So you have given up the high road when it comes to violence and as in the case of D. list supposed violence.

There is a ton of evidence of violence by both left-wing and right-wing people and groups over past centuries.

But, IF you want to dig up ancient history, the most murderous people ever were left-wing dictators by the name of:

Stalin

Mao

Next after those two, the 3rd worst is a right-wing dictator:

Hitler

But, what about the U.S.A. since 2016?
What many have been talking about is the violence, thuggishness, harassment, and nastiness from the left since year 2016.
What part of that do you not understand?

Of course, you don’t see it, or can’t admit to the up-tick of left-wing violence, thuggishness, harassment, and nastiness from the left since 2016.
And even IF you did, you say the right does not deserve any civility:

Why would the same people who insulted and lied about Obama for 8 years think they deserve respect now that Trump is president?

Essentially, you are condoning:

former AG Eric Holder:

Eric Holder said: “When they go low, we kick them”

and Maxine Waters:

CA. Rep. Maxine Waters said: “If you see anybody from the [Trump] Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station — you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. Tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere!”

and Cory Booker:

Cory Booker said:“Get in their face.”

and Barack Obama :

Obama said:“Argue with neighbors, get in their face.”

IF you think that there has not been significantly more left-wing violence, thuggishness, harassment, incitement, and nastiness since 2016, then that’s fine by me.

Weary, an intelligent response, thank you. Yes it was a bit dramatic, but scary I’m sure to a defenseless women, just like most of the supposed violence coming from the dems has been drzamatized by the conservative propagandist and magnified by you and other movement followers.

I thought the exaggeration was a right wing propaganda tactic to confuse the issue, so for you to violate the code to say some….wait… you were just defending the right wing attacker nothing else…right?

J2, why argue your own nonsense stereotypes and talking-points with yourself instead of addressing what is actually being said?
Do you simply not understand what you read, or are you so consumed with partisan hate and rage that you can’t even see what was actually written?

I have no problems discussing extremism. In fact, it is one of the few things that I know too much about. That is why I took the time to explain how the current situation is so different than what we have seen in the past. But rather than address and discuss the issue, you choose to lie and go off on your fascist nonsense. FFS man, grow up some.

“THe problem they have in trying to sell the latest Fascist talking point here on WB…”

There is no actual fascism, or actual fascist talking-points. You have been asked many times for proof, but all you can provide are partisan opinions that highlight your own double standards and hypocrisy.

“is they have been allowing and defending the things they now take umbrage to.”

Prove it.

“Yet to believe these guys and their lies the only violence is coming from the left.”

That has NOT been said.

“The outrage they profess all because Hillary made a truthful comment.”

With leftist incivility already at a 10, it is dangerous and quite harmful for a democratic leader to endorse and call for more incivility towards their fellow Americans.

“Of course D. tries to make it sound as if this rhetoric is all one sided”

No, he has not. He has made it VERY clear that extremism exists on both sides of the aisle, but at this time in our history it is the leftists that are the problem.

“I mean they have wanted to “water the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants” for years”

And there has been no organized effort to target, intimidate and attack those who disagree with them. They wear their t-shirts quoting the founders and wave their American flags and leave everybody else alone.
The same cannot be said of those wearing their socialist and communist t-shirts quoting Lenin and Marx, and waving their anti-American banners and flags.

jt2t wrote: And now the rest of the story. Maybe not the rest but another clog in the D. machine as far as facts are concerned.

Ha ha !

What clog?
This is funny, because j2t2 apparently did not watch the video of the incident that he is referring to, because this video clearly shows 12-year old Gavin Cortina being punched:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6W2kiRgidU

So, why did you refer to this incident ?!?

But, please keep it up.
Please tell us again that it is all right-wing propaganda.
Or, better yet, please tell everyone again who disagrees with you that they are all (or on their way to being) Nazis and Facists ?

j2t2, here is another great video by John Quinones (ABC News Correspondent).
Please watch this video, and you could learn something:

J2,……Do you simply not understand what you read, or are you so consumed with partisan hate and rage that you can’t even see what was actually written?

Kctim, These are the only two possibilities that come to your mind! They are nothing more that blaming the messenger fallacies. I suggest you go re-read my comments and then think a bit longer on it, the realization may come to you.

You see , well that is the problem…. you don’t see the creeping fascism in our political system. At best we now have an oligarchy, at worse a dictatorship forming. We definitely have one party rule and a voting system that has been compromised by the right wing. Using you and our other conservative friends here on WB, amongst many others, the conservative movement has managed to gerrymander and suppress the vote to the point of minority rule in this country.

This thread has been about the right exaggerating and then projecting unto others the violence they themselves are doing. You associate the dems and liberals with the few antifascist that have fought back intentionally, it is wrong you know it is wrong yet all of you keep repeating it as if it were true.

“The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category. ”
― Adolf Hitler

Face it kctim because you have been told the left is becoming violent you believe based upon a few instances yet you give the violent right wing any and all breaks by telling us it is the outcast not the right wing. I have told you this once you babbled some crap and tried to cover it up so why repeat it.
“Do not compare yourself to others. If you do so, you are insulting yourself.”
― Adolf Hitler

I have chosen, in this thread to try to get you guys to see the bigger picture, but it seems your conservative propagandist have prepared you well over the years. The cognitive dissonance is impressive, Goebbels would be proud of you guys.

But hey lets take a look at the violence you guys are talking about Cory Booker says , Clinton says, Obama says, Holder says, Waters says, …..starting to see the point? There is no violence. The last link I posted told us about the incident that was more a school boy argument than a ideological fight yet you guys are unable to comprehend this.

Trump has called for jailing the political opposition once again at his rallies. Trump has done much worse verbally the past year and a half yet not a word from you guys on that “violence”, well other than to defend it.

“Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.”
― Adolf Hitler

IMHO this is the start of the right wings ideological cleansing just as the Nazi’s did, BTW, once they took power. The tactics appear to be the same and just like the decent people of Germany you guys have eaten it up and spat it back out every chance you got.

“The victor will never be asked if he told the truth. ”
― Adolf Hitler, Hitler’s Letters and Notes

D., I saw the video but I didn’t see the hat come off! So I think it is your turn to read the link to the rest of the story…but you won’t so here is the relevant quote.
“In conversations with the school and Gavin’s mother, Christina Cortina, I learned the story was a lot more tame. According to their accounts, the argument between Gavin and the other students began before they got on the bus. It didn’t start with politics—but after it went in that direction, Cortina put on the pro-Trump cap. A student flicked the bill of the hat and Gavin responded by pushing him in the back, according to a statement released by the school. There wasn’t a violent assault. No one was pummeled.”

So once again it seems the conservative propagandist distorted the truth and exaggerated the incident to make it appear “liberals and dems” are guilty of “violence, thuggishness, harassment, incitement, and nastiness.”.

IMHO you guys are falsely setting liberals and dems up for persecution in the coming years. Using this trumped up incident that only those totally under the spell of the conservative movement would determine to be violence is the tip of the iceberg.

Yes guys I am quoting Trump..er…umm… Hitler to you. Read the quote and look back at this thread and you will notice his playbook being followed by you guys. Stop the nonsense stop laying down with these guys. How many times have you grouped liberals and ems in with the antifa in this thread alone.

Have any one of you guys bothered to compare the right wing violence, real violence not imagined violence, in much greater numbers over many more years to the supposed violence of the left today. Nope you may have made excused or played it off just as I thought you would.

And lets not even think about the propaganda you have swilled over the years. You believe anything bad about Hillary and have for years, to the point you would sell your soul for a Trump victory. You have defended him and his attacks on the press, his lies and so much more because you are taken in by the propaganda.

To be honest, I have yet to experience first hand any violence from either side. Only on the TV do I see violence. Perhaps it’s all fake news! Maybe the riots are right up there with the Moon Landing Hoax? Who knows, really?

I don’t see your “creeping fascism into our political system” because it simply does not exist. No fascist EOs, no fascist laws, no fascist actions that prove your claim. If there were, you would post them.

There are no signs of “a dictatorship forming.” Your life today is no different than it was under Obama. You’re not getting your way on issues, you can’t handle that, so you are screaming doom.

We had one party rule in 2009 and 2010 under Obama. Our voting system has not been compromised.

“This thread has been about the right exaggerating and then projecting unto others the violence they themselves are doing.”

NOBODY has said that the right doesn’t have it’s own extremism. This thread has been about those on the right pointing out the fact that leftist extremism is the problem we face today.

“You associate the dems and liberals with the few antifascist that have fought back intentionally”

No, I used the term leftists. I stated how their numbers have exploded and I can give you countless examples of them engaging in violence and destruction aimed at those who simply disagree with them. You cannot do the same.

“I have chosen, in this thread to try to get you guys to see the bigger picture”

No, all you have done is use “conservative propaganda” to deflect, and yammer more fascist and nazi nonsense. WHY are you unable to provide proof for ANY of your claims?

You guys went on and on about the target on Palin’s election map inciting the shooting, but now you claim actual calls for incivility are innocent? You have no leg to stand on here.

“Trump has called for jailing the political opposition once again at his rallies.”

Relax, it’s never going to happen.

“IMHO this is the start of the right wings ideological cleansing”

That’s because you are blinded by partisan hate and think that nonsense will help you in the election.

Who or whether the hat was “flicked” is not nearly as important as the violence that you pretend did not occur.

The point is, the kid was punched (a.k.a. violence).

I read all of it, and you are relying on a comment someone else wrote, and ignoring this VIDEO, in which the 12-year old was punched by a kid in a grey T-Shirt and blue jeans.

j2t2 wrote:Using this trumped up incident that only those totally under the spell of the conservative movement would determine to be violence is the tip of the iceberg.

Right, we are all brainwashed Nazis and Facists. That’s getting old. What, no more Hitler quotes?

Funny how the people accusing others of something are usually the ones most guilty of that very thing.
What part of that do you not understand?
Are you just pretending to not see the kid getting punched, or are you really that dense?

Besides, it is unlikely that ALL of the students involved would have been suspended IF there was NO violence.

Perhaps you simply don’t understand the definiition of “violence”?
Excuse me IF that is the problem.
Here is the definition:

Does that help?
Or do you have some other theories and obsfucation you would like to test?

j2t2 wrote: IMHO you guys are falsely setting liberals and dems up for persecution in the coming years.

Ha ha!

“H”ubmle?
“Falsely setting up”?

First of all, we are not making the news and these videos, of which there has been an up-tick of mob-like behavior since 2016.

Secondly, these violent and nasty Trump (and Trump Supporter) haters do not need our help, because they are doing a great job all by themselves.
Especially IF it is ALL really fake news by the right-wing propaganda machine, without a shred of evidence.

Google and Facebook and Twitter are about the closest thing to fascism in this country right now. They are attempting to be America’s and the world’s conscience. They think they can write an algorithm for morality and decency. They have delusions of grandeur.

Don’t think fascism isn’t established in this country, kctim. It is. Perhaps you forget fascism is a cooperation between government and corporations. Which one is the tail and which one is the dog at the moment?

j2t2 says a man taking a microphone out of a poor defenseless woman’s hand is an attack, but turns around and says someone punching another person in the face is an argument.

Weary, what I am saying is you guys exaggerate to such a degree it’s laughable. Not only is the exaggeration laughable so is the total lack of recall when it comes to right wing violence the past 3 decades. Real violence where people are killed not where they get their hat knocked off their head.

D. here is one for you as you seem unable to comprehend.
Exaggeration-
1
: to enlarge beyond bounds or the truth : overstate
a friend exaggerates a man’s virtues
— Joseph Addison

D. the pity party for conservatives seems well attended, the problem is the same people attending your pity party are the same people who for years have been doing the same thing to the other side of the aisle. You guys have no credibility with your double standards.

I am well aware of what fascism is, Weary, and it has not been “established” in this country.
While our government may over regulate and the “cooperation between our government and corporations” has at times been abused by both, we are not living under ‘severe economic regimentation’ implemented by government.

Does socialism always lead to fascism and communism? Of course. But so far our Constitution is holding up.

I really hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but there’s not going to be a Reichstag moment any time soon.

I sure hope you are right kctim. Lets face it neither of us want that outcome. With minority rule though we can’t count it out. Our representative democracy is in shambles now that we have so much dark money in politics. We have seen extreme gerrymandering and voter suppression, even today in Georgia the Secretary of state is culling voters who may not vote for him to be governor. Authoritarianism…Fascism whatever you want to call it.

We have nothing in common with 1930s Germany.

You keep saying this yet more and more we find out we have many similarities with the people of Germany in the late ‘20’s and early 30’s kctim.

There was no coup of the SCOTUS.

But we did kctim. The Senate sat for almost a year on the Garland nomination, which was unconstitutional IMHO.

Those are nothing but baseless talking-points designed to inject fear and get some votes.

Only to those who deny the reality of the situation. I hope one day soon you and others who now blindly acquiesce to the propaganda will see the truth in these “talking points”.

If any of those were true, you would be able to make a valid argument for it, instead of always having to deflect with “conservative propaganda.”

Conservative propaganda plays a big part in it kctim. And if you would look at the links I have provided you will see I have in fact made a valid argument for the similarities between the 30’s and today.
The voter suppression and extreme gerrymandering cases have been made on many occasions by many different people, your refusal to accept the truth doesn’t mean there isn’t a valid argument.
As far as the Reichstag moment time will tell. You guys seem to be setting it up with all the hoopla about the violence of the left. Why else would so many conservative propaganda outlets make mountains out of molehills? Why would they deny the violence on the right for years and suddenly group liberals and dems with the antifa and use kids fighting at school as proof of left wing violence?

j2t2 wrote: D. the pity party for conservatives seems well attended, the problem is the same people attending your pity party are the same people who for years have been doing the same thing to the other side of the aisle. You guys have no credibility with your double standards.

Ha ha!?!

Pity party?

j2t2, don’t you mean “pity party for conservatives Democrats” ?
For example:

j2t2, And do you think that the following makes you credible?, when you:

are calling, and/or comparing people (that disagree with you) Nazis and Facists?

quoting Adolf Hitler; and your obsession with Facists?

condoning mob-like behavior?

j2t2 wrote: Why would the same people who insulted and lied about Obama for 8 years think they deserve respect now that Trump is president?

embracing “Guilty until proven innocent”?

ignoring the increased in mob-like behavior by the left since 2016?

ignoring evidence, and calling it ALL right-wing propaganda?

j2t2 wrote: Yet you will have me believe MSNBC is not head over heels better at reporting facts and actual news than Faux and the conservative media!

whining about the electoral college (despite Democrats having an electoral advantage)?

are unable to admit a mistakes, or that someone else may be correct?

exaggerating about the cost of a border wall and now being concerned about debt, when the cost ($13-to-$25 Billion) is miniscule compared to almost $2 Billion per day of interest on the national debt of $21.5 Trillion? And it was under Obama that the National Debt doubled?

accusing others here as being part of the right-wing propaganda machine?

kctim, who pays who when the government decides your grass is too long? Does the government “suggest” your lawn be mowed, or do they arbitrarily decide it’s too long for their liking and hire the local lawn service to mow it for you?

How about who gets the call when there is an accident or a traffic violation on the road? Is it the mayor’s brother, or uncle who owns a tow truck?

How many corporations are kept in business by laws demanding every intersection be equipped with wheelchair accessible curbs and textured sidewalks for the blind, even in the remotest of areas where there are no blind people or wheelchair dependents? How often do you notice the standards changing and the “old” standard is replaced with the “new”. Who benefits when government changes these specific standards and makes them obsolete? Isn’t it the corporations hired to implement those new changes?

How many times has a corporation insisted the court decide if it can establish a competing business in a vulnerable area when the people oppose it?

The fact that banks can ban businesses from selling product they don’t approve of is fascism on it’s face! People at Google and Facebook believe they can deny your ability to converse with your family because you posted something they disagrees with. That’s fascism.

Fascism doesn’t have to be an established party competing in the public square and voted into power. Fascism bypasses the election process and goes directly to using money, influence, and/or force to get it’s way.

The auto industry is fraught with instances where they have bought out competing ideas for the sole purpose of eliminating the competition.

Whole industries are made vulnerable by the short sided laws with short sided benefits written by government at the behest of those same industries. Take the banking industry for instance. Government and banks coordinated to provide homes to people who couldn’t afford them. Short term gain, long term disaster.

Government is operating on the idea that laws must be written to protect existing industries that are considered (by the government) to be too big to fail. That is fascism.

The reason fascism is established in this country is because we don’t recognize it as fascism. We see it as standard operating procedure. It’s considered normal. We mistakenly call it freedom. What is so free about having our choices eliminated in favor of a corporation’s “right” to exist? Why has Walmart been allowed to destroy every Mom and Pop store in communities across this nation? Why has government decided to ignore the anti-trust violations that have given so few so much control over our lives? The very few corporations who own the vast majority of media outlets at the national level is a perfect example of fascism at work.

No, sir. Fascism is alive and well in the U.S. It simply isn’t recognized as such. Perhaps I am guilty of using a term mistakenly. If so, please define fascism as you see it and let’s see if we are on the same page.

J2,
Both sides always predict domestic false flags (Reichstag moments) when they are out of power. They have yet to be proven right.

Being a proponent of free speech, I have no problem with political ads. If you want to change how it’s done, go for it.

I’m not a fan of gerrymandering either. Perhaps the first step in fixing it is to use only numbers, not ethnic, racial, linguistic, religious, or class groups?

Voter ID and personal responsibility are not ‘Authoritarianism…Fascism whatever you want to call it.’ We must ensure that the process allows citizens to vote AND guarantee their vote is protected. If you have a better way of guaranteeing that no citizens vote is negated, let’s hear it.

“more and more we find out we have many similarities with the people of Germany in the late ‘20’s and early 30’s”

We heard the exact same thing throughout Obama’s term, J2. People cried when they heard him speak. They chanted their support. They marched and danced in his honor. They praised him in public schools. He had the vast majority of media on his side. His supporters attacked those who dare disagree with him with screams of racist, sexist, xenophobe, bigot, unpatriotic, and murderer.
Neither fascism or nazi’s took over.

“The Senate sat for almost a year on the Garland nomination, which was unconstitutional IMHO.”

Yes, they used the process to their advantage, just like the democrats did with the ACA. It’s not unconstitutional, not a coup, it’s nothing more than sour grapes.

“Only to those who deny the reality of the situation.”

Facts are reality, J2, not partisan opinions and hypothetical guesswork.

I try to always look at the links provided, J2. I don’t automatically discount them, most of the time I try to compare them to non-biased reports of the topic at hand.

“You guys seem to be setting it up with all the hoopla about the violence of the left. Why else would so many conservative propaganda outlets make mountains out of molehills?”

I don’t care or even know what’s going on with these outlets you talk about. The facts show that thousands of leftists have flooded our streets, destroyed property and attacked those who disagree with them. Their numbers are growing and their actions become more brazen. That is not a molehill, J2.

“Why would they deny the violence on the right for years”

The ‘violence on the right’ is almost always an individual effort, not an organized group effort. It is also not a daily/weekly occurrence as it is with these leftists. When it does happen, those on the right condemn it and expect punishment to the fullest extent of the law.

“and suddenly group liberals and dems with the antifa and use kids fighting at school as proof of left wing violence?”

First, liberals and democrats are not condemning groups like antifa, blm, bamn, worker world party etc… as they should be.
Second, that fight example was given as part of a list that shows a pattern of violence aimed at those with differing political beliefs.
These aren’t sporadic incidences of an idiot yelling at somebody for wearing an Obama or PR shirt, they are daily/weekly assaults on Americans because of their politics.

Facism is a form of radical authoritarian ultra-nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible and violent and strong regimentation of society and of the economy.

The U.S.A. is a long way from that, and the constitution helps make it less likely (not impossible, but there are many more stages to become a facist nation).

Ironically, what we are seeing today, since year 2016, is and increase in forcible and violent suppression of opposition by some on the left, and some Democrats within government, who are also encouraging mob-like behavior.

J2t2’s claims are a prime example of the “pot calling the kettle black” (i.e. a person who is guilty of the very thing of which they accuse others of being; an example of psychological projection).

j2t2 is constantly accusing others and people on the right of facism (which is: forcible and violent suppression of opposition), but it is actually mostly the left and some Democrats in government who are also encouraging violence and mob-like behavior, which is a characteristic of facism.

However, it is unlikely that there will be enough people and organization on the left (or right) in the U.S.A. (not anytime soon, anyway) to successfully use forcible and violent suppression of opposition to turn the U.S.A. into a facist nation.

But, since 2016, the left and some Democrats in government are most guilty of forcible and violent suppression of opposition (a characteristic of facism), such as THIS?:

And, I think that the majority of voters in the next election are going to make it clear that what some on the left and what some Democrats in government are doing, is not acceptable, and will not regain the power they so badly want.

d.a.n I hope you mentioned the IRS in that list. The IRS uses forcible and violent suppression of opposition every day. So does the Dept. of the Interior, the Department of Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, ect. the list of alphabet agencies all use forcible and violent suppression of opposition. Facebook and Google are using forcible and violent suppression of opposition openly and aggressively.

Fascist behavior isn’t exclusive to this decade or century. Joe Kennedy was a supporter of Hitler. Fascist behavior goes back to the dawn of the progressive era when the people in this country were so prosperous and happy they didn’t care what the federal government did. It didn’t affect them at that time. It took decades for the fascist behavior of today to manifest itself. We are the frog in the pot and the water has been boiling for quite a while!

Yes, there is some facism, but fortunately, the U.S.A. has not yet descended into rampant, widespread facism.

There is no doubt that the federal government has grown to nightmare proportions.
There is no doubt that there are still many abuses by the federal government.
It would fill volumes to document all of the abuses by our governments.

But, hopefully, the majority of voters are always struggling against these abuses, every day.
That is what is necessary.
And we have a Constitution and laws for guidance (though some laws have been perverted).

Voters, through elections, and representative government, have allowed some things to exist (i.e. taxation).
The IRS, EPA, DOI, DOE, and many other government agencies often abuse their power.
Unfortunately, cheaters are attracted to power, and power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Nobodby likes taxes, but some taxation is necessary for the national defense.
And, most people don’t mind taxation for welfare for the truly needy.
Also, most people don’t mind taxation for the education of our children (which can benefit our nation, if done correctly).
But, too much government is not a solution.

Often the voters push back when the government gets too out-of-control (such as some on the left and some Democrats in government are doing since 2016).
But for that to be successful, enough voters must have enough virtue and a moral compass to know what is fair, and what is not fair.
It takes time; sometimes it takes years, decadces, and centuries.
Sometimes, it even results in civil war (when the cheaters and unfair-minded people grow too powerful and too numerous).
It is the job of the virtuous citizens to continually fight against true facism and totalitarianism (forcible and violent suppression of opposition); not to be confused with the enforcement of just and fair laws. Force is justified to enforce laws necessary to protect the innocent.

The job is never done, and never-ending. It is a life-long struggle.
Recently, it was ruled that the IRS discriminated against conservatives.
The courts often overturn EPA rulings, and rulings of other courts and departments.

Unfortunately, there are always some cheaters, and some are master-cheaters, and master-parasites.
It is not realistic to expect there to never be some level of facism and oppression.
It is the job of the citizens to educate themselves to recognize cheaters, and continually struggle against opproession by the cheaters.

What some on the left, and some Democrats in government are doing today, through mob-like behavior, is actually forcible and violent suppression of opposition”, which is a characteristic of facism, and it is thugish, mob-like, and unacceptable.
It is no longer only few incidents; it is a problem that getting increasingly worse, to the point that many people are afraid to wear “Make America Great Again” hats, or T-Shirts; so bad, John Quinones (ABC News Correspondent) produced a 1 hour TV show about the growing problem:

Voters, most likely, in the next 06-NOV-2018 election, will make it clear to everyone that mob-like behavior (i.e. forcible and violent suppression of opposition), is unacceptable.

So, some facism exists.
But fortunately, the U.S.A. has not yet descended into rampant, widespread facism.

Here is a simple formula I created, which must account for human nature.
We need sufficient levels of these 5 elements (power, virtue, eductions, transparancy, and accountability) for “Responsible” government:

D. you are grasping at straws and have resorted to using very bold wording as if you are yelling. Unfortunately that still doesn’t make you right… just right wing. Once again after years, decades, of right wing violence you find what you think is a few examples of violence on the left and it is they that are the fascist! Do you realize how silly that sounds?

As long as you guys allow you team to suppress the vote, to use extreme gerrymandering and prohibit free and fair elections in this country you don’t have a leg to stand on.

The Hitler quotes in my previous comments demonstrate the ideological views of the conservative movement leaders. They seem to be using the same exact plan to destroy our representative democracy. You guys that vote conservative seem to be unaware of this but you support it by defending their actions and repeating their lies.

The SCOTUS coup was one example of this. The Citizens United decision is one reason we are moving away from a representative democracy to an oligarchy. With a repub controlled government how long do you think it will be before voting will be illegal? The political operatives on the SCOTUS will not protect us from it if fact they make it more in line with the original constitution.

You have spent a lot of time and effort to tie all this statistically nonexistent violence on the left to the mid term election. Yet you are ignoring the violence of the past 3 decades from the right. I provided a chart that showed the right wing violence was so much more prevalent in this country you have been unable to disprove this fact so you ignored it. But it still remains a fact. It spoils your myth so all you can do is continue with the big lie.

It seems you cannot run on the Trump/repub record and are very desperate to make the “violence on the left” myth a reality. Just like you guys did with the millions of illegals voting myth. All I see is a bunch of brownshirts running around spreading lies, and it saddens me.

It is this type of repeating the big lie over and over again that causes people to think of what the Fascist did when they gained control in Europe almost a century ago.

“Look at [this] chorus of entitled white men justifying a serial rapist’s arrogated entitlement,” Fair wrote in the tweet on September 29. “All of them deserve miserable deaths while feminists laugh as they take their last gasps. Bonus: we castrate their corpses and feed them to swine? Yes.”

When not calling Trump supporters “Nazis” as a means to dehumanize us, the establishment media like to whine about the lack of civility in American politics, even as they cover up, ignore, downplay, or straight-up approve of the wave of violence and public harassment we are seeing against supporters of President Trump.

j2t2 wrote: D. such an intelligent well thought out rebuttal. It seems obvious you choose to shill for the repubs no matter what lies you have to use.

Thanks!

After all, insanity is defined as “doing the same thing, repeatedly, and expecting a different result”.

Therefore, it is insane to engage in additional repetitious debate, and expecting logic, reason, and reality to have any effect, whatsoever, to persuade a person who is so thoroughly and completely brain-washed, and obstinately obdurate, despite overwhelming and contrary evidence; and prefers to wallow in circular, partisan warfare to such a degree, that it matters not how twisted and immature that person’s pretzel-like logic becomes.

Like I previously wrote, this nation still allows people to think whatever they want, no matter how far it is from reality.

IF someone tells you that 2 + 2 = 4, will you dispute that too?

I shill for no party. I shill for what I think is just. I am neither Democrat or Republican. I have voted for both Democrats and Republicans in the past.
What are you?

However, this year, I am voting Republican, because Democrats want open borders, another shamnesty like the one in 1989, higher taxes, and more and more government and control, which is already beyond nightmare proportions.

But, here’s an idea that may be more pleasing to you.
Create another ghost-writer for yourself on this blog, and you two can argue with each other. :)