Taped interview with Melita (transcript)

Melita C: Warren 2006?
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I met Melita at Outspoken spoken word event in the fall of 2013. She had just had an eye-opening week as a substitute teacher at Emma Donnan, currently run by Charter Schools USA due to the state takeover. She also subbed at Arlington, run by EdPower. As a child, she attended township schools before IPS 96, 60 and Emma Donnan, plus middle and high schools in Warren. (Foxhill in Washington Township; possibly Harcourt School in Pike?) She recorded 9/23/13 at Glendale Library.
JB: You told me you went to IPS. Was that the first place you ever went to school? [Kindergarten was 1992 for Melita]
No. My first place, I believe, was…I want to say Foxhill Elementary or it was either Harcourt Elementary out West off of Michigan Road [I can’t find a school with this name; from location it could be Pike Township]. And so we went in between school. Elementary I started off, I believe, Foxhill and then—
JB: Do you think that’s in township?
That’s in a township.
JB: I’m not that knowledgeable about the West yet. But you’re still living in Indianapolis. Were you outside the beltway? Or you’re too young to notice! (laughs)
(laughs) Too young to notice. I have no clue. (laughs)
JB: So you went to Foxhill…
Foxhill and then Harcourt. Foxhill, Harcourt, and then we stayed out North. I guess Northwest. And then after that…that was like Kindergarten elementary. It was Kindergarten. And so then after that, we went to School 96. I went there…I want to say…first through fifth grade. I believe. Miss Callahan. I love Miss Callahan. I don’t know. She was so mean.
JB: So mean?
She was mean. But she was like real strict. I was used to that, ‘cause that’s how my family is. And so she was strict. And anytime Miss Callahan would wear this—I remember this still to this day—this leopard-print cheetah…it had a whole bunch of animals on it, but she would wear it and we just knew on that day, we did not mess Miss Callahan. Like at all. Like it was that particular outfit.
JB: I wonder how the outfit got connected with, “This is the tough day.”
I don’t know if she told us that or we just knew that. I think she wore it like once a week, thought. I really think so.
JB: Or did it look foreboding? The cheetah outfit, did it look a little…
It did. It did. It kinda did. Yeah, it was like a cheetah. It was a two-piece set. It was a skirt. And it was a shirt, short sleeve. And it had these cheetahs all over it. It was the weirdest thing to me. But we just knew that day not to mess with her.
JB: What grade was she?
What grade was I? I think I want to say, it had to be fourth or fifth grade.
JB: Oh, was she the teacher or the principal? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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She was the principal. Miss Callahan was the principal.
JB: You liked her. You smiled when you said that [she was tough]. You said that at home they had the same attitude.
Yeah. She did. She just kind of reminded me of my grandmother, ‘cause my grandmother was really strict and stern. But yeah. I even got paddled, I think, by Mrs. Callahan and so (laughs). That was when corporal punishment was still in the schools. [This was late nineties]. I believe I got paddled by her. I was always in her office. Always. And so, but we kind of built a relationship, I guess.
JB: When you said you were always in her office, I got to know why. Whatever you can tell me. What would get you sent to the office? I’m assuming you were sent; you didn’t just stop to say, Hi.
Yeah, I was sent. And I think because…Not I think. I know. I was very disruptive. I was very disruptive. I was always talking, like I was the class clown, I’m guessing. And it followed me all the way up. I was very…out of control, in a way, you know. And so I always got sent to her office. Like, they was just tired of me.
JB: A teacher would be tired. When you say “out of control”—I’m interested in all facets of being a child and going to school—so when you say you’re out of control, are you talking with other kids? Or is there something else going on? Is that enough to make a teacher mad?
I think…now that I’m a substitute…that is enough.
JB: (laughs)
‘Cause when you have 25 of them and you got this one that keeps doing all of this, back and forth, back and forth. And you got the rest 24 that’s trying to keep up with that one going back and forth. I guess, that is enough. When you’re out of control…I wouldn’t say like I was standing on a desk, like what they do now, but it’s just like…to them I was out of control, because it was a lot of us to keep up with. Now that I’m older…
JB: What did you want to talk about [in school]? Do you remember?
I don’t know. It could have been anything. I guess I was bored, too. I guess, too, I didn’t really understand what was going on in school and so I kind of like really distracted myself, trying to keep myself engaged and stuff. And so sometimes, I would be asking like, what is this or what is that? Or, you know, just asking questions. But it was just kind of out of turn. Because I didn’t raise my hand. I didn’t ask the teacher. Sometimes either I was bored or I just didn’t know. So, it was just like a lot of [books], trying to ask the question or not knowing. And she wasn’t getting to me fast enough probably. You know, so…
JB: Down in Callahan’s, what would happen there?
(pause) I’m trying to remember. I think one time, I went down there and she just talked to me like I just ate my lunch in her room. I think…that’s what I remember. I do remember being paddled by her. But…I didn’t think nothing of it, because I was getting paddled and stuff at home. I wasn’t too much scared about it all.
JB: When people bring up being punished, I wonder what the reaction is. IT doesn’t sound like it was making a big impression on you.
No.
JB: There’s not an emotion around. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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It always made me angry. Being hit on does not change the child from doing something. It just creates fear in them. They still have that desire to do it and occasionally, we still do it. Because the pain, it went away and the thought of getting a whooping, we just don’t care. Like at that point in time of me doing something like, Yeah, I know, it will go away. But it still doesn’t change my desire.
JB: It’s a temporary thing [the whooping].
Yeah, it’s a temporary thing. And so, it made me angry. It made me rebel in a lot of areas. ‘Cause I just always felt like, that’s not what I need. I need this.
JB: I wonder what you did need.
I did. Now that I’m older, I notice what I needed was not for you to whoop me, but I needed you to instruct me. Like…discipline me because I need it in some way, but with the discipline give me instruction. Give me why it is. Just tell me why. Like I’ve always been a very curious child. Like, just tell me why. Like, that’s all I need. If you tell me why I shouldn’t be doing this, then I’ll be fine.
JB: Like maybe you could have understood why is it such a big deal that I’m chatting.
Yeah.
JB: As a teacher today, you get it. As the kid, you didn’t get it.
I did not get that at all. (laughs) Didn’t get it at all. But, yeah. Just tell me. I think that’s what I was needing. But also, don’t just tell me like, tell me with love though. Don’t just tell me with, “’Cause I want you to.” That’s kind of the mentality of the old days. You do it because I said so. You know? That wasn’t enough for me. I don’t care what you say. Just tell me like why? That’s all I wanted was a “why?” ‘Cause nobody told me, ‘cause they felt like you didn’t need an explanation, because you were a child. And so, a lot of that mentality still exists today. And so…but that’s not helpful. It doesn’t get anybody anywhere.
So…through [School] 96, I believe I went to school…some point I went to School 60 off on the by Meridian.
JB: 34th and Meridian, near Shortridge?
Near Shortridge, yeah.
JB: What happened? What was the change, time for middle school or you moved?
We moved. Yeah, we moved a lot.
JB: It sounded like you said that you might have had a move in the middle of Kindergarten. You went to 96 for first through fifth grade. But maybe there was moving going on?
Yeah. Moving in there, too.
JB: And for sixth grade, is that when you went to School 60?
No. School 60 had to come in between like third. It had to come in between 96, because of the fact that I went to School 60 and that was an elementary school. I think I could have gone to school 60 for fifth grade. Yeah, this is a mixture of stuff. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: I understand. When you’re moving and you’re young, you’re not necessarily keeping track of things. Let me go back to how old you are, so we can put it on a time line. If you don’t mind sharing your birth year or the year you would have gone to Kindergarten, that’s your birth year plus five.
It would have been ’92.
JB: Kindergarten ’92. Do you have any memories of Kindergarten?
I got a lot of bad memories. I don’t have anything really good. I got one good memory. I think it was Kindergarten. I had to think. Because when we read the whole book, The Green Eggs and Ham, and we made the green eggs. I think…that was pretty awesome. But I cheated on my spelling test and I remember the word, which was “red.” And I would never forget it. And I had my paper out. This was random…however.
JB: It’s good. It’s interesting.
I had the paper out and I got caught cheating on the word “red.” It’s funny, ‘cause now the color red is my favorite color. (laughs) So, but…let me see.
JB: You had a spelling test in Kindergarten?
Yeah, it had to be Kindergarten, because I was allowed to fix…
JB: We didn’t have spelling in my Kindergarten. When you first said, “Oh, Kindergarten. I have a lot of bad memories and a couple of good.” So the eggs. You got to make the eggs. You read the book and then you got to make the eggs.
Yeah, we made them in class.
JB: did you add dye?
I think we did.
JB: Now, the bad…for me bad/good, I’m neutral to it. But if you say something is bad then I’m wondering, gee, what was it? Was it something about school that you wanted to share? What was bad for you? (after pause) The red, getting caught?
Yeah, that was terrible. I guess ‘cause of the way she did it. She was real loud about it and I guess I was embarrassed about it. Because she called me and like she made a real big scene about it. And I really believe that’s the reason I remember, is because she made a huge scene about it.
JB: Were you looking at someone’s paper?
No. You know how the desks were made, like they still have them, where you put all your stuff and so, I pulled the paper out a little bit. And of course, she was looking at me, so…she seen me. She was real loud. I just remember it like it was yesterday. She was real loud. I just remember her calling my name real louds. She made a real big to do about it. What else? That was pretty terrible.
JB: You were terrible?
No, I was told I was terrible.
JB: This was all in Kindergarten. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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This is just through life. That I was terrible. Oh! It was something else. Oh, I got into a fight. I was in Kindergarten. We used to always fight on the bus stop. Always. And it was these people next door, who lived next door to us. And so, we was fighting on the bus stop and I just remember wearing a denim Oshkosh dress. It was a dark denim Oshkosh dress and I had on white stockings and these black shoes, black dress shoes. And this girl said—her name was Velita—it was her. Her brother was special ed. But she had another brother, so it was three of them and it was three of us. And I believe it was more kids than that for them next door. I remember her saying something about my mama and I just remember it was raining outside and I remember being on top of her. And I just remember getting up and I wasn’t dirty. And so, I’m just like [sighs], oh. I just remember and getting up and I wasn’t dirty. I was okay. I’m just like, man. If I was dirty I was going to go home and get in trouble ‘cause my stockings is dirty and all of that. I just remember then going to the school and they pulling me and my brother aside, come to the front. They told us that because we were fighting so much on the bus stop that we were going to get in trouble, get suspended, whatever. So they talked to us about the whole big fight that went on at the bus stop. But I remember that. That had to be in Kindergarten or first grade, somewhere along that line. But we rode the bus together and stuff. I was going to school with my older siblings, so it had to be in like first grade or somewhere. I just know that the girl was in fourth grade, so…
JB: Oh, my. She’s a lot older than you.
She was.
JB: And she said something hurtful.
Yeah, she said something…but they always were saying something.
JB: I appreciate you sharing all that stuff, ‘cause I just think it still goes on. Peoples’ feelings get hurt, they get into fights and we’re always trying to figure out---well, I hope we’re trying to figure out how to make it nicer for the kids. You were reprimanded, you and your brother. Did the other kids get reprimanded?
Yeah, I think. I want to remember. I believe they were with us, like they pulled everybody together, ‘cause we always stood on the bus stop together. So, I believe everybody got pulled together. I just remember vaguely like me and my brother being there. But I don’t remember if they were there. I know we were. Because we were mad at my sister, because she didn’t have to come with us, because she wasn’t in the fight. She wouldn’t help us. We were mad at her. We still are mad at her. (laughs) She wouldn’t help us.
JB: You were saying that you moved a couple of times, so you went to a township school. You think you went to 96 next?
It was 96 next.
JB: This is still 1-2, something like that. You went to 60 in maybe third grade, a family move?
Yeah. The family moved.
JB: Did you walk to 96?
No I didn’t. We rode the bus.
JB: How about when you went to 60? Are you able to walk or are you taking the bus?
We walked, ‘cause we lived on New Jersey. And so we walked to school then. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: Did you notice any differences about going to School 60. Walking, that’s a difference. Anything else? [she pauses] Or were you there long enough to have impressions?
No, it was still ran the same, I believe. It always seemed as if my reputation followed me. You know, like…it could just have been me though. Because I was always treated I was at the school before. And it just always seemed like it followed me. I was always in…like now that I’m talking to you about this…this is crazy, but I always was in trouble. I was always, always in trouble. And so…but it was nothing ever anything good established at all. So to me, it was always the same. And so…I was walking home, I remember, from School 60, like I was bullied a lot in school. We stayed at that time—probably still is until they do the whole renovation of that area, but like, it was a rough neighborhood, School 60. I mean, New Jersey and stuff like that. I remember one time walking home and like it was a group of kids who didn’t like me and my brother, so like those group of kids—and they lived in our neighborhood as well—walking home and they was just throwing…I believe it was rocks. Yeah, they was throwing rocks at me. Like I was walking with another friend of mine, but for some odd reason, she went another direction, but I kept going the direction I went to. But they was just throwing rocks and stuff like that. This was terrible. I just remember crying like all the way home. And so…yeah. That’s what…I remember what outfit I had on and everything. That was terrible. I just remember like I got put out…I was fourth grade… I think it was fourth or fifth grade, because I remember saying, “Mama, I’m only 11.” I was screaming and crying because I came home from school and my mother was talking about taking me to Girls School, ‘cause I got in trouble and she didn’t want to have any part or whatever. I was just screaming and crying, crying and screaming. Like, “Take me to my grandma! Take me to my grandma!” And I remember leaving my colorful book bag. I loved that book bad. And I left it outside one the street and when we came back home, it wasn’t there anymore. And so, like I was hurt. Even when I talk about it now, like I loved that book bag. And it was gone. I was just screaming and crying.
JB: Was it still the day when you had rocks being thrown at you.
No, this was a separate day. I’m mixing it together.
JB: there are a lot of things running through that, you’re mom saying you should go to Girls School. What is Girls School?
It’s a prison.
JB: That’s what I thought.
(laughs)
JB: What did you think when she said that?
I was hurt. I was hurt. Because I’m just like nothing I could have done…I knew then that you only went to Girls School when you got locked up or something. And so, I didn’t get locked up, so I kept trying to figure out, like why am I going to Girls School? I even told her while I was screaming, “I’m too young to go to Girls School!” I kept saying, “Take me to my grandma! Take me to my grandma!” (laughs) That was a foolish day.
JB: Did you go to your grandma’s?
No, I don’t know where we went.
JB: I was just transcribing a story where a man talked about Boys School and here you are 11. It sounds like one of those things parents might say, like “We’re going to have to send you to…” We used to call it military school. [My husband had a friend in suburban Chicago whose family finally did send him to military school as a teen.] Melita C: Warren 2006?
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But this is the step after military school, getting locked up. It sounds like she was just saying it like, “What am I going to do?” Kind of throwing up her hands?
Yeah.
JB: As an 11 year old, it feels real.
It felt real real. I’m just like…I mean, you’re sitting in the back seat. You don’t have no control over that steering wheel at all. And so, wherever she took you, that’s where you ended up.
One of the things I wanted to get back to was School 96. When I was talking…like my reputation always followed me. I always, in first grade I remember I had my high and my low points. And so I could have been a really good kid if I really wanted to, if I was really focused, all of that. In my moments that I wanted to be good, my bad over-rode, it over-rode my good. And so, it was just like…it just seemed as if people were stuck on that one part of me, you know? I just remember this like very, very strong. I think it was first grade, had to be first or second grade. And I remember this girl had this—at this time these pencils were really, really popular. They were shaped into something, you know, like it could have been a penguin or a flamingo, whatever. You know, back in the day, these pencils were really popular. And so this girl had this pink flamingo pencil. It was shaped like a flamingo and the eraser was orange or yellow. And so, she...it was laying on her desk. I know this little boy broke it. I looked at him, he was swinging on her desk and he was holding on to her pencil as he was swinging on her desk and he cracked it. And he broke it in half. And so, they blamed it on me.
I was always being the one to get blamed for something and I would be nowhere near it. And so, because of my reputation, they just automatically assumed it was me. And it’s always been like that. And so, they blamed it on me. And the teacher believed them, because I was already “terrible.” And so she believed them. I was begging her. I was crying. I remember because I was so hurt. ‘Cause I knew I didn’t do it. I knew that and I kept telling her. I said, “I did not do that. I didn’t do it.” And eventually I just gave up…I just took it, because she wouldn’t believe me anyways. I just said, okay, I did it. But I know in my heart—I am 27 years old. (laughs) I can remember. Sometimes I think about it like man, I didn’t do that. And I just did not do that.
And so…it’s just always been like that. They knew me from middle school…by the time I went to Creston, they knew me. And my siblings, my oldest sibling is three years older than me. She was already in high school by the time I got to middle school. And so when I got to middle school she was in high school. And so, they just knew me. (laughs) By the time I went to middle school to high school…they be, “Oh, man.” Like they didn’t even give me a chance, you know, to even like, hey, I’m a different person or whatever.
JB: I wonder about that, when you said that your reputation preceded you—the way they acted. So, one of the things you gave me a good example of: They assumed when something went wrong, you had something to do with it. They were kind of assuming, “Must be Melita.” And when you went to middle school, where did you go?
I went to Creston. We moved. That’s German Church, like—
JB: Oh, that’s East. I’m a sad person. I get my east and west mixed up. You had told me Warren, but my head was still out west. So, Creston [in Warren Township]. You had been living in the city, going to 60—that’s more like third grade. Did you go 96, 60, 96 again?
No, 96, then 60.
JB: Where was Callahan?
Callahan was 96. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: Okay, then I got the years wrong. 96 was more like your early elementary years. That’s why her name came to you when we first started talking. So, third grade you were at 60.
I think it was third, fourth and fifth at 60.
JB: And then…around that the time you went to middle school there’s a family move to [East Side]. Your sister had already gone there.
I think she went to 108 [Gambold on the West Side.]
JB: When you went to Creston Middle School what was that like?
It was like the same thing, like I was in trouble all the time.
JB: Did you still feel like—you said this earlier, I don’t want to put words in your mouth—like there was the “good-behaving” you and the “bad-behaving” you. Were there still two you’s?
Yeah. (laughs) It was still two me’s.
JB: What was the good you? What were you interesting in, what made you want to “behave”? or what kind of behaving did you want to do?
I wanted to do what they asked, like sit still, be quiet, raise your hand when you have a question. You know, like all of the basics and routine stuff. I wanted to. And sometimes—now that I’m older, that was just me, like that was my personality. Even now, I can’t take positions where I’m sitting still all day. Like I have to be up walking around doing something or...‘Cause I’m a people person. That’s just what I do. I feel like that was just my personality, looking back. But of course my personality didn’t match what it is that they wanted. So…
JB: The classroom dynamic. You were supposed to be chatting…
And then, now that I’m older…it’s just that a lot of stuff wasn’t engaging. It didn’t keep, not even just my attention but it just didn’t keep me feeling like I am a part of the classroom. I felt like sometimes that…like sometimes when they gave me stuff to do, like pass out papers or do something, I felt like I was a part of the classroom. I was doing something. I felt like I succeeded at those things well. But when it came to the other stuff, like “sit down, be quiet.” And lecture. It’s like, “Oh, God.” I got bored.
JB: Classroom could mean lecturing, the teachers telling you information. You need to sit and listen. And that just did not work.
Plus I didn’t retain the information. I didn’t retain it anyways, ‘cause I’m sitting here listening to you and you’re going on and on and on, but I learned—not a week ago—that I learn [by] doing. And so I felt like I always had to do something.
JB: Did you say that you just learned this recently?
I learned recently that I’m a kinesthetic learner and so, if I would have known that when I was younger—or the teachers would have known that—I would know a lot more now than I do.
JB: The system didn’t work for you.
It didn’t. It’s just like…yeah. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: That’s a long time to be doing something and it’s not working for you.
Yeah. It’s a long time.
JB: All those elementary and now into middle school. Is anything different about middle school or that you wanted to…a vivid memory or important…
No. I got kicked out my seventh grade year and I went to 72. I went to Emma Donnan. I went to 72 for a whole year. And so, I went to seventh to eighth grade.
When you got kicked out, you were at Creston? [yeah] ‘Cause they’re in two different school districts. That’s interesting to me. I don’t know how it works. They literally kicked you out. It wasn’t, “We’re suspending you for a few days.” It was: You’re out of the building. We can’t have you here.
Yeah.
JB: How then did you get into Emma Donnan--if you’re kicked out of one school, how do you get into another?
I got sent over to Emma Donnan, ‘cause I wanted to go live with my grandmother. And so, I finally got to live with her. And that was tragic. I went to go live with her. [pause] yeah, so I went to 72. 72 was terrible. It was terrible. It was just like…like the kids was everywhere at 72. It was a lot different from Creston. The kids were just able to do whatever they wanted to, like run in the halls, selling candy, throwing paper in the classroom. I got in trouble so much at Emma Donnan, it was ridiculous. But I went to in-school suspension, the man there was teaching me how to play chess in in-school suspension. That was pretty cool. I love chess. And I’m still working on learning now. However, I don’t have the time. I loved it. That was my first introduction to chess. And I absolutely love chess. I absolutely love it. It was amazing.
JB: What do you love about chess? To me, chess is a mystery, just a complete mystery.
What do I love about it? It’s challenging. And it’s also like strategic. It’s strategizing. It’s like, if this don’t work, then what? I just like…I even do critical thinking puzzles, stuff like that, on my own. I just like thinking, critically. I think that’s what I like about it. And it’s a game. You know, the best of both worlds to me.
JB: do you like other games, too?
I like chess. I like Monopoly. I like Candyland for the kids. (laughs)
JB: I think, there are—like I’m not a very good game person. I admire people who play chess, because to me, it takes a brain that I don’t have. That’s why I ask. I forgot to ask you: What gets a person kicked out of Creston?
I kept getting referrals after referrals. I got to the point where like each referral I brought down would be like two days. And then each referral, I got another one. It would be three days. It would just keep adding up.
JB: So a referral means…you’re referred to go downstairs, out of the classroom.
Yeah.
JB: Is that basically in-school suspension, too? Or do they refer you home?
They just refer me to the office. That got me home or it got me afterschool detention or it had got me in-school suspension. But had Creston, they didn’t do in-school suspension. It was either suspension or afterschool detention. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: Suspension means staying home for a while. [yes] What would get you a referral?
What I would do in the classroom, like if I was talking and I wasn’t supposed to, if I was playing and I wasn’t supposed to. Like playing with other people, not sitting in my seat. What else? Just doing a whole bunch of random stuff that got me sent down. But at Creston, they didn’t give you chance after chance.
JB: How long did it take?
It took like one time. (laughs)
JB: So you’d get referred and referred. Were you kicked out by the middle of the year? The end?
I think it was the middle of the year. It could have been like the beginning. ‘Cause I went to Emma Donnan the whole seventh grade, so it had to have been like the beginning of the seventh grade, or something like that.
JB: I may be very naïve, but it sounds very weird that a school could kick you out for doing anything less than….I think it’s interesting.
That’s why I say, like the sixth grade and the seventh grade. The sixth grade, they just knew me. Like I was always down in the office. I was always…I had a good rapport with the guy, Mr. R, who suspended you. And so he knew me. I was always down there. Always. And so, by seventh grade, it was a wrap. It was like, “Yeah. We’re not doing this.” And so…
JB: How did you get classwork done? Did you get any classwork done?
No.
JB: You’re eyebrows are raising at me like, What?
No. (laughs)
JB: If you’re kicked out---and this is the other thing: We’re there any ways they tried to figure out, Why won’t Melita…What is not working for Melita here? Is what I want to say. Is there a point at which somebody refers you to counseling? Is there something?
No. Not in middle school. But like, I believe, I was at school 60 and I think they referred for me to talk to a counselor, or whatever. But I remember going to like one session in her office, I think. That was it. From that time on up, it was nothing.
JB: Do you understand that I’m asking, because this doesn’t seem like it’s working for you either?
Yeah.
JB: I would wish as a parent that there would be help; what would work for you? But you don’t recall any attempts to find out what would work for Melita.
No. The only thing they did in elementary; they did, they tried, they put me on Ritalin. But…I think I remember being like…I was calm. But I was still me. Like, it didn’t take parts away from me. And I think honestly, I did that because my sister was on Ritalin. But I just really wanted to take it just to see.
JB: It didn’t make a difference in how you felt, being in the classroom and doing what was asked of you. Did it help you do what was asked of you? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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I mean, it did in a way, because it does what the medicine does, which is make people calm. And turn them into zombies and all of that. I just don’t understand that whole medicine thing. But…it makes you do it, because that’s what it makes you feel. You can’t do anything else, because you feel like you’re…not even tired. You’re just there. Like, you’re almost in a trance, almost. Because you’re just like, “Uh.”
JB: Were you able to listen to a teacher like lecturing you? Could you listen better or were you just quieter?
I was just quieter. (laughs) I still wasn’t paying no more attention than I was…the day before. I was just quieter.
JB: How did it come to be that you were on Ritalin? Was it a teacher? Or did your mom say, “Oh, your sister is on it; maybe you need it”?
If I could remember I think it was my mom. Just because what she was hearing from the teachers. She was thinking that maybe—we did talk to my doctor, ‘cause we had the same doctor since we were born, and so--all the way up ‘til we were 18. So she talked to her. And so, she was just like, “Oh, yeah. We’ll try her out.” And so, I was on it. It just made you feel like you were just existing, like nothing to contribute to the classroom. You were just there. As long as you were quiet, you know, had all this good mentality: Kids should be seen and not heard. And so, as long as you were seeing and you had all your fingers and all your toes, all your limbs were functioning, at least externally, properly, then you fine. So.
JB: Did you stay on it?
I just stopped taking it. After a while. I think after that year. I don’t remember being on it longer than that.
JB: Something…I think I mentioned at the beginning, I usually ask about family and how they related to school. Sometimes it can be, they related by…some of these difficulties bring the parent in for meetings. It can be volunteering. It can be a strong relationship of some kind. What would you say—is it your mom that’s the primary caretaker? What was her relationship to your schools?
She never really volunteered. Like the teachers knew that if they called her, then something would be done. Like, she had that relationship with them.
JB: yeah, she would respond to them.
To the issue. Other than that, that was it, ‘cause she always had either two or three jobs. So, she was never there physically.
JB: I can appreciate that. May I ask what your mom did?
She was a CNA. [Certified Nurse Assistant] That’s what she did.
JB: when she had two to three jobs, was that all as a Certified Nurse Assistant?
Yeah. Different places. Like she would do private duty and then she would go to the nursing home, like she would work at the nursing home, but also do private duty on the side.
JB: That’s a lot of hours, sounds like. I know you said you moved a lot; did you have a sense of community at your schools?
Nmm nmm [no]. It was nothing like that at our schools. No. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: There was no way that I’m a part of…I think you said that one time, sometimes you feel a part of something. I think that’s what community means. You feel like your school’s a part of something.
No, it was just go to school, go home.
JB: How did it go for you…I didn’t ask you this: your mom, did she ever express what she wanted for you…from your education? Two things I look at is: What did she want for your education? And what did she expect of you at school? One is, what are they going to do for you and the other is what did she want you to do at school?
The first that comes to my mind with that question is, she just wanted us to graduate. And that was it. That was it. It was nothing else, no type of knowledge to be acquired or anything like that. She just wanted us to graduate.
JB: There wasn’t a certain mission she had, like This is why we go to school.
Yeah.
JB: It was: We go to school and you have to graduate.
Graduate. That’s it. So, what she expected from us is not to get any phone calls and for her not to have to leaver her job. For us to act like we’ve got some sense. That’s all she would say.
JB: I’d love to hear how it went in high school. And anything else you remember.
High school was about the same.
JB: By the way, Emma Donnan, you were living with your grandma. Did you stay there for eighth grade.
No, I went back to Creston. I went back to Creston in eighth grade. And thank God. Somehow or another, they lost my record in between seventh grade and eighth grade. Because when I went back to eighth grade at Creston, they tried to put me back in seventh grade, but I was already a year behind. That was the problem, too. I re-did first grade, because of the fact that they said I was a low reader. And so, I re-did first grade. That could be the mix-up right there. So, they tried to hold me back in seventh grade, but they couldn’t do it, because they couldn’t find my folder, my file, so they had to put me in my right grade, which was eighth grade. And so, that’s how I ended up in eighth grade.
JB: I think you said that was a good thing.
That was a good thing.
JB: Because.
It was a good thing they lost my file.
JB: So you could stay in your grade. How was eighth grade?
Eighth grade…what did I do in eighth grade? It was okay. I think I began…no, I didn’t in eighth grade. Eighth grade was just the same. I calmed down a lot, like I changed a lot, because I went to Emma Donnan and I seen that…I started to appreciate Creston because of the fact that I went to Emma Donnan and the kids were wild. They weren’t learning anything, like the teacher couldn’t say anything. Like, they were just existing in the classroom and they weren’t learning anything. They just roamed the hallways all the time. So, when I went back to Creston, I’m just like, “I should appreciate this.” And so, it was a drastic change. It was a huge difference. And so, when I went back it was totally different for me. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: I’m guessing that changed your behavior. [yes] In what ways?
It changed me, because like I wasn’t doing a lot like I used to…like I was. I wasn’t talking and laying and all of that. It changed me in that way. Because I did not want to go back to Emma Donnan. Because it was terrible. Because I was going to Creston in sixth grade; it was such a difference as far as the behavior of the kids, and even the teachers…acting like they care and stuff like that.
JB: So even the teachers seemed different at Creston compared to Emma Donnan.
Yeah. It’s just like the teachers at Emma Donnan seemed like they were so overwhelmed and I’m quite sure they was now that I’m a teacher. (laughs) I mean, there was just a lot going on. The teachers couldn’t even instruct or give lessons ever. Because they was too busy trying to deal with their behavior. And so…It was terrible at Emma Donnan.
JB: I wonder how the class work or learning went, because there had been so many suspensions and changes, then Emma Donnan just sounds like a lost year. In eighth grade, are you doing work?
I was doing work. I believe I was doing average. I’ve always been an average student. I was doing like C work. But to me, I just say, “Hey, C is passing.” (laughs) Like I always built that mentality, like as long as I’m passing and just doing enough, I’m good.
JB: That was a real change for you. When it was time to go to high school I wonder how you know where to go next. Are you living in a township, so you go to that high school? Or is there a choice?
No there’s not a choice. Once we left Creston, we just knew that we were going to Warren [High School]. And so, like I went to Warren and Warren was…it was a huge difference for me, like a drastic change. But…I guess because the building was bigger and then you had a lot more teachers. And then, you had a lot more students. My first year, it was me. It was all of us together at Creston.
JB: The family? [yes] The older sister and the brother?
Yeah. And so, all of us there. That was pretty cool, ‘cause we got to go to school together.
JB: Was there a bus to take you?
Yeah, the bus.
JB: How did you handle the bigness? You mentioned how big it was and how different it was. I'm wondering what the impact is on you. How are you doing at Warren?
I mention the size, because I’m more of an intimate type person. And so, it’s just like…at Creston, that’s where I got the whole community feel, was at Creston. Because I was able to really connect with my teachers and like when I first started writing poetry, I showed my teacher—the one teacher that didn’t like me at all and I didn’t like her. Mrs. Culpepper. But she was my English teacher. I fell in love with Mrs. Culpepper. She fell in love with me and she seen the person that I was trying to be, but just couldn’t get there. And she kind of fostered that person. She kind of motivated me to be that person.
JB: How did you come to share your poetry with her? Was it for school?
No, I just wrote a poem.
JB: had you been writing poetry before that? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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No, that was my first one and I shared it with her. It came to be because, like my sister, she journaled a lot. And so, I just started ‘cause I’m the youngest. Monkey see, monkey do. And so I just started to journal with her. And then she said something one day about poetry. Then like she was saying she wrote a poem or whatever. I was listening to her, so then I tried it out. I wrote my first poem called “Tears.” And I went to my teacher Mrs. Culpepper and showed her the poem. And I let her listen to it. It was just like maybe six or seven lines of poetry. But she seen like more than just my poetry, you know, than what I put on words, what I put on paper. And so, she began to foster that part of me that I didn’t show but to her. Just to show it to her—and I didn’t like her- and she didn’t like me, it was just…I still don’t even know to this day why I did it, but I’m glad that I did. Now, Mrs. Culpepper, I had a show, my first feature ever, and she came out. I was able to find her, called the school that she worked…she worked at Holy Angels. And so, she retired from there…she went to church there. I just kind of did, you know, my whole little investigating.
JB: What was your first show?
It was at this place called All That Jazz Kitchen and Café.
JB: Spoken Word?
Yeah, spoken word and I was the feature of the show. And so, I was asked. But yeah, ‘cause I wanted her to come out, because I wanted to pay homage to her because it was because of her I became on this journey. And I’m still on it, obviously. Yeah, so…ever since then…like life began to brighten. I was still bad, but (laughs)…
JB: It doesn’t always click all…it’s not a sharp right turn. So, that’s where you started to feel some community. And Mrs. Culpepper, even though you didn’t like each other, you opened up and shared poetry and she responded by letting you know, this is you. Any sense of this that continued through the year?
I believe that was in my eighth grade year and like I was able to dance, like I did a liturgical dance at my eighth grade dance. It was an eighth grade school dance and I talked to the lady who puts together the dance and I asked her, could I dance at our thing and so I did a gospel pantomime to Yolanda Adams’ “Open My Heart.” And so, I did that. It was at our dance. So they stopped the music. Everybody was dressed up and everything. So they stopped the music and I was in full attire and I danced to the music [?].
JB: How was that received?
Very well. And like everybody, “Oh, I didn’t know you could do that! I didn’t know.”
JB: When did you start dancing?
I had to be like in sixth grade. Like I would just do different stuff in my room, ‘cause I was always in there.
JB: You were telling me you were kinesthetic. So, you started dancing in your room, you said.
And dancing in…my grandmother had her own church. She was a minister and still is. And so, for 10 years. We used to dance down at the church, you know, the youth performances. But mainly, I did it on my own, in my room. And then I played the saxophone, sixth through eighth grade, but I missed a year when I went to Emma Donnan. So I played the sax in the band. I wish I had kept up with it. I would have been really good.
JB: The band was at Creston? [yes] Was it like an afterschool thing or a class?
It was a class. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: So these are other parts of yourself besides all the negative stuff you felt around school, or negative behaviors—what was perceived as negative. There’s music and then the dance. You shared that with your school. They didn’t ask you, it wasn’t that they taught you in any way, but you shared it with them at the dance. And you learned that yourself. Did anybody teach you at the church or was church the place to perform?
Church was the place to perform. I taught myself and I don’t even know the first time I seen it. But I taught myself. And so…yeah.
JB: Did any of those seeds that were being planted [press in] when you went to Warren [High School]? I know you said it wasn’t perfect right away. Did some of those changes keep coming at Warren?
Yeah, they kept coming at Warren. I had my major ups and downs at Warren. But the water kept going over the seed and kept watering the seed that was within me. ‘cause that flower, I’m telling you, was bound to spring forth. It took a while. It wasn’t until I…Miss Baylan, who was my English teacher at Warren, I believe she was either my freshman or sophomore, but she kind of like kept me out a lot. ‘Cause I would stay after school sometimes with her in her class. We would just talk and talk and talk and talk. She would give me these expensive chocolates that she would have. And so, like we would just talk. That was helpful for me gaining knowledge just about life, in general. Just having somebody that took that time, you know. And I think that’s the only thing I really needed was somebody just to give me their time, like, alone. You know? And so, that helped a lot. It became like…about the time my junior year came, I was coming into like a person that was a for real class clown, but I know how to turn it off. Like when it’s time to work. You know? So, I was going into that my end of my sophomore, beginning of my junior year, because I knew the type of person that I was becoming and the type of person that I wanted people to remember me as. And so, I did not want to like flunk out of school or anything like that. Because I knew school was my…by the time I got to high school, school was my safe haven. I just wanted to get away from everything that was going on at home and so, I just knew that if I messed up school, where would I go? You know? Yeah. That’s kind of where that went into.
But then like I started to perform, like I started going to public performance poetry. I started to perform, so a lot of people started to know me by that. And so, my junior year, I wrote a poem called, “Are You Listening?”, that has been number one since I wrote it, so that’s how a lot of people remember me. And so, then like, I performed it at my school, through a talent show. I was in a lot of talent shows that they had there. A lot of people started to see me differently. “That’s that poet. She did good.” And all of that. Mr. Burchette, the day that I was suspended or the day I was supposed to get suspended or something like that, from Warren. He actually…I was in the office, but he called me to his office and the main principal, Mr. Burchette, he bought me a ticket to Maya Angelou, that performed at Clowes Hall. And so, he bought me the ticket. It was expensive, but me and my mother were trying to figure out how we were going to pay for it. And so, he took me. He’s like, “Melita, I’m giving you this ticket.” And he printed it off at TicketMaster. And so, I was able to go and see Maya Angelou and it was amazing. So, actually she’s coming here this Tuesday and I’m going to that. But anyway, so it was, ahhh. That was the best thing in the world. I felt like I won a million dollars. And so I went to see her. And like the ticket, the backstage, it was a VIP or whatever. I seen one of my old friends at Clowes Hall that I haven’t seen in years and he was just like, “I don’t have a ticket to go back here.” I said, “I do.” I didn’t even know if I had the ticket for real. Like I don’t know if he bought me a VIP ticket. It wasn’t. It was just a regular ticket. I said, “Man, I’m getting in there. I don’t care what you say.” He said, “But you don’t have the ticket.” I said, “I do have the ticket.” And so, I just went back…there was a lady with like a bar code thing and she scanned my ticket and it dinged. And I went right in. I said, “I told you I had that ticket.” And so I was able to go back and talk to her and meet her. I think that was a life-changing experience for me.
JB: What did it mean to meet her? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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It…[she lets out a breath with a “huh”] It meant the world. Like it was like—I hate to say—it was like meeting Jesus. It was not like that, but it was just like—huhh—it was amazing. It was relief... like, to see somebody that…I’ve read her books, I’ve read her poems, like kind of almost like stalked her a little bit via the internet. (laughs) You know. It was…I don’t know…even know to even answer that. I’m speechless. Words can’t explain how I really felt to be back there. Like, “Oh, man. I deserve this. I’ve been through so much.” Like I wrote her a letter. I was able to give her my letter…and stuff and so.
Those were those experiences like through high school. I was really sad, because Mrs. Woodgrim, she didn’t like me. I was the class clown in her class, I know. But I always did my work. She always had to talk to me. This was my senior year English teacher and she always had to talk to me. She always sent me out of the classroom. She said I broke—here’s another thing. She said I broke the glass in the door, but…you know, that glass that's inside the doors in the classrooms? But I told her, “I didn’t break that glass.” You know, somebody would have to really hit that glass with force. And I told her I didn’t do it. But she swears up and down I did it. I said, “Mrs. Woodgrim, I didn’t do that to that door.” This is exactly what I said. But she writes me up, so I go down to the office and they said that I broke the door, whatever. I didn’t have to pay for it, whatever, but I did get in-school—I always hate in-school suspension. But I did in-school suspension for several days.
JB: In-school suspension means you don’t go to class.
Right, you just sit in this room.
JB: And you really hated it because…
Nobody to talk to. (laughs) But then I do like my quiet time, too, because I’m able to work on poetry. I’m able to think by myself--but long periods of that? It’s boring. It’s a long time. It was days. So, it was prison. That’s how I know I could never go to prison, ‘cause in-school suspension, I couldn’t do that. And so, I had in-school suspension, she really didn’t like me and so when I really…everybody knew that I could speak, everybody knew that I did performance poetry and like that and so I wanted to speak for our senior commencement. And so, I wanted to speak for our senior commencement. And they had try-outs and I was the only one--and I was the only one. It was like me and three other people, but they were like on student council and stuff like that. I never went for student council because one) my grades were always average and they always wanted people to be like three point oh and above and all of that. I’m just like, “Yeah, I’m never going to get into student council.” But I always wanted to do student council, but I never could do it. And so, we did the whole commencement thing and I didn’t get it. And my speech, I know by far was the best speech out of everybody that tried out. Even teachers told me, after I was done—it was teachers that came up to me and told me that my speech was the best one. And the reason why I didn’t get it was because Woodgrim didn’t want me to have it. She fought for me not to get the commencement speech. I said, “Man, ain’t that about something?” But then, that also made me like keep in my mind that your reputation is going always to be before you, but also like…your past does kind of hold you back from what it is you want to do. So, that’s what kind of me keep—like okay, I’m not going to ever go to jail ‘cause then I’m not ever going to be able to get a good job and stuff like that. So, it’s just like, whenever I want to do something, I can’t, because of my background, you know. That kind of helped me a lot. It was a lesson learned. However, I know that my speech was the best speech. However, I’m grateful because I did learn a lesson from that. Also, one door shut, you know, several open, you know. So I was able to go back--what’s this? Thirteen--last year and I spoke at Warren, at my alma mater, and I was able to speak for the Black Expo, Miss Indiana Teen Pageant. And so I was able to speak there. It was just…It’s been…everything’s been a full circle. I’m just like, huh, you know.
JB: I want to ask two things before I lose them. I wonder where you got to perform. I remember that you discovered poetry with your sister’s example and you had that teacher that encouraged you. I’m hoping that in Melita C: Warren 2006?
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high school you also had exposure. Did classes expose you to more poetry or are you continuing this journey on your own, outside of school?
Out of school.
JB: Is school fostering it at all.
No, not really. Only thing…I’m just going to say no. Not in school at all. It was more outside.
JB: I really wonder, “How?” There’s you, all by yourself. You can write. How are you connecting with these places to perform?
I just went out, not really seeking at all. Opportunities just begin to come my way. Like they were just, people would call me and ask would I perform here and every place I perform like another opportunity came and after I’d perform there, another opportunity. Like it just…
JB: You told me that poem, it was your number one poem.
“Are You Listening?”
JB: How did that become number one? Number one in your repertoire or in some other way? Your favorite?
It’s not necessarily my favorite, but it’s people’s favorite.
JB: When you perform. So, who would invite you to perform? A student, a coffeeshop? Somebody invites you?
Somebody invites me, like who has community events. And so, like large community events, they would come and ask me.
JB: Like…an example of a community event. Black Expo’s really big. You probably didn’t start with that first.
No, I didn’t; it kind of led up to that. Where did I go? I’m trying to remember the first. There’s been so many. Like the Youth Leadership Initiative Camp with United Way.
JB: So, they knew you through somebody else?
Yeah. I went through…after I graduated high school, I went through… I went to school and I came back, because my back went out. But I just couldn’t sit and not do anything, so I went through the Urban League Program downtown and so I spoke through…anytime they asked us to do an assignment, I would do a poetry piece. And so when like I did a poetry piece, they knew I could do more, just from that poetry piece. And so, I would perform. So, from my performance, they were just like, “Okay, I want you to come and speak at our event.” So, I spoke for the Urban League. Then one of our teachers, who came meaning to do instruction with us about leadership or whatever, she sits on the United Way; she’s a director of the Youth as Resources grant through United Way. And so, she asked me to come and speak for the youth. It was just like..it kept going on from there.
JB: You were also performing out in high school.
Yes. More in high school it’s more at churches and community events and stuff like that. I didn’t really get up until like in the [?] until later. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: I wanted to know…part of it is that I wish, personally, that high school had done some of the helping you along. But it sounds like you were recognized in another sphere, outside of high school. but it seemed to support you through high school, because you found this part of yourself.
Yeah.
JB: I also wondered why you wanted to be in student council, what they did that you thought you’d like to do.
It just always seemed like they got to do stuff, like they got to do more, like the teachers respected them. I guess that was it too. Teachers respected them and put them…it always seemed like we were down—like I was and people on my level were down here and they were up here. They got to do all type of stuff and I just couldn’t figure out how to get on that committee. Like what did I have to do? I never knew what I had to do.
JB: Did they get to make decisions of any kind?
Yeah. They got to make decisions.
JB: I always wonder about student council; did they get to throw pep rallies or are they actually sitting around making decisions, voting for something.
That’s what they did. Now that I’m older, I feel like now I understood what they were doing. They were like making decisions about, like what are we going to do for Wacky Day, like Spirit Week, like dances and stuff. They actually were running like the school pretty much. But you had to be, like I said, 3.3 all of that. But I really wanted to be on it. I just couldn’t figure out how to get there, like and stay there. (laughs)
JB: Thank you. I always think, I wonder what they do and you cared about it. How did you transition out of high school? Did you know what you were doing next?
Not really. Like sixth through eighth grade, I was with 21st Century Scholars and so they did a lot of programs with IUPUI, so downtown and stuff. I was always recruited for stuff.
JB: So you would go…were you learning about colleges because you were a 21st Century Scholar?
Yeah. And so I was learning. I didn’t really know. I had an idea, like I thought I wanted to be a social worker, go to Ball State and that was it. I always wanted to be a foster parent. Other than that…that was it. Then after I got out of school, I’m just like, “Mmm, maybe not.” I didn’t go to Ball State because I didn’t get my 21st Century Scholarship, ‘cause when I graduated high school—I told you now—I was bad and I really wasn’t paying attention. So, I graduated from high school with a 1.9. So, you needed a 2.0 to get your scholarship. And so, I was close. If I probably would have gotten a B somewhere, I probably would have had it. But, yeah. SO, I didn’t get my 21st century scholarship. So I just thought, okay, I didn’t have any money and all of that. I ended up making a decision at the last minute and going to Vincennes. And I went with my brother, ‘cause that’s where my brother was going. I just really wanted to get out of the house. So, but like my whole plan and social work went down the drain. And so, I went down there and came back home; that’s how I get linked up with the Urban League.
JB: You hurt your back?
I hurt my back down there. In Vincennes, they had like a little bonfire thing. I went. Like you could sledge hammer the…car. And so, when I was in like third grade, third or fourth grade—it was at School 60—I was diagnosed with scoliosis. And so, it was my first time doing it and I threw my back out. And so, I had to come home, because Vincennes didn’t have the stuff to transport me to class. And so, on campus. I had to withdraw. I Melita C: Warren 2006?
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had just got down in August and I came back in October. And so, I was out. And I came back and went through the program at the urban league.
JB: Is that some kind of a tradition, bashing cars?
Yeah, like what they do at the bonfire. It was a Christian bonfire. They had one where you could smash the car. It was just for fun.
JB: I can picture it, but I’ve never done it. It was a youth fun thing, not a way to get into trouble. Now, what is the Urban League? [I meant: What is the urban league program mentioned earlier?]
The program was like..it was a job readiness program. They taught you like your resume. They gave you a stipend while you were in class. Like, they found jobs, showed you how to look for jobs on a computer. It was like a six-week intensive course, like you had to be there Monday through Thursday. You couldn’t be late, and all of that. I went through that, because my sister went through it, too. She was the first one that went and that’s how I found out about it. I went through it and I completed it. And then I went through their GRADES [If I heard Melita right, she means Group for Renewal, Accountability and Development of Excellence in Schools] program and stuff like that. And so, I did a lot through the Urban League. That’s how…see, it was through that program that I found my AmeriCorps position. Like where I was doing the AmeriCorps. And I’m glad that I found AmeriCorps, but…
JB: Can you tell me about AmeriCorps?
AmeriCorps national service program is like where pretty much as much as you make, you are volunteering your time. (laughs) You just enroll in the program like you’re going to enroll in one of the service programs.
JB: Okay, like one of the armed forces.
Yeah, armed services.
JB: You get paid in some way?
You do, but it averages out to about three dollars an hour.
JB: Like a writer, I get it.
(laughs) So you might as well say you volunteer. But it was a really, really good experience. And so, but it’s a lot of programs under AmeriCorps because anybody can create a nonprofit and enlist AmeriCorps money. And so then your program would be under AmeriCorps, and so then you can go out and hire people to work for you in your program. Anybody can be an AmeriCorps-funded program.
JB: And get people like you to work for them.
…under their cause. But you can only do AmeriCorps two years. You can only get the American Seal Education Grant. ‘Cause you do get, after your two years—one year of full-time service, you get almost $6,000 towards education. So, I did two years and so…I just had to log on today to figure out what I can do. And you only got seven years to spend your money. And I think I’ve still got $7,000 left and this is my seventh year, so I need to figure out what I’m going to do.
JB: So you haven’t gone back to school yet. But there’s this money that would enable you. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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I’m in school now, attending the University of Indianapolis. I’m doing the bachelor’s of organizational leadership. I think I’m going to go ahead and do the minor, which is only like two more classes than what I’m already doing. And so, it’s a minor of business admin. I think I’m just going to go ahead and do it, get the minor.
JB: What would you like to do with the degree?
My goal is that I’d like to have my own nonprofit which would be working with inner-city youth to take them global. That is my goal. That’s my whole…
JB: Take them global in what way?
Take them to different countries. Like I want to take them…anywhere they desire. However, they will have to do a whole year working with me, learning how to fundraise, learning how to volunteer within your own community first. Like, they would have to volunteer throughout the city for a year. And so, we would all link up and go to this one particular place. Of course, I’ll have it all set up. They will have to volunteer for a year. Grades. Behavior. Everything. And so, but…then we will work together, like do shows, do things throughout the year, so we can have money raised. Of course, I’ll do the back-end fundraising, but they will work, too. Just to show them, you know, just how to fundraise and how to be steadfast positively to reach a goal. You know? That would be the whole focus on that. I kind of spoke to Mr. Woodridge, where I’m substituting, about starting it at Arlington. But we will see. (laughs) I would like to get a jumpstart just to work out the kinks. Like I said, we will see.
JB: Do you need a break? ‘cause I’d like to ask you about substitute teaching. [we pause] Before we talk about substitute teaching: I like to ask people, when they look back on their education, how do they think it served them?
[pauses 30 seconds] That’s a good question, because…I’m thinking about it and I’m thinking like, education would have served me well, if I was paying attention. But since I wasn’t, it’s kind of my fault that it didn’t serve me well. Because there’s a lot of things I don’t know, when it comes to education-wise. I have knowledge because…I guess, more like street knowledge, picked up along the way. I don’t think that…there was something else I was thinking…then I was thinking out if they had figured out how I learned, like the best ways that I learn. You know? Then maybe I would have learned a lot more than I know now, you know? ‘cause I was sitting in my class at University of Indianapolis and I was just thinking, like, the way that she teaches the math—and I’m just getting it like that [clicks]. All my life I felt…I dreaded this math class at U of I. And I said, I do not…I tried to figure every way possible to get out of this math class and I couldn’t. But they said, like, “Melita, you have to take this math.” But I said, “you all just don’t understand.” And they was like, “Oh, no, you’ll be fine, you’ll be fine.” But she teaches it in all the different ways that everybody learns. Like we do a lot of the hands on. We do a lot of hands on, it makes you feel like you’re in elementary, because of the fact that you feel like, “Oh, we should have done…we don’t do this in college.”
JB: Can you give me an example?
The other day, we used toothpicks. She gave us physical toothpicks, because one of the questions was how can you make a box out of these nine toothpicks. They’re will set up in three one-inch--six …so, you had to move them to make three boxes. Normally you would have just had to look at a paper and keep scratching off, re-doing the boxes over and over and keep scratching off, but she actually gave us the physical toothpicks and we could build the boxes and then take them away, and then re-build them, take them away. And so, but…and then she gave us…when we were working on intersections and stuff like that, she gave us all these different shapes that had three different colors in them, three sets of colors, of shapes. And so, if A and B was intersected, you would need a yellow triangle with a red triangle and so because they were the same shapes that were in two Melita C: Warren 2006?
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separate size--I’m able to explain to you because I did it. I took finite math at Vincennes University and the same thing we were working on in class, I didn’t get it, ‘cause the only thing I had was a book and a sheet of paper. And I wasn’t really being taught...like if I was to physically do it, put something in these two, then I will be able to get it. At Vincennes, I ended up dropping the class, ‘cause I just could not get it. (laughs) Like my brain was not getting it. But now at U of I we’re learning the same things, but I’m getting it because we’re actually using things--taking things away, putting them in. We’re actually coloring—what is this, what is that like? It’s just different and I just think that education has served me well in certain areas. But I just feel like it’s my experiences with education that didn’t serve me. I think I’m asking your questions right.
JB: Yeah. Part of it has to do with, are you taking what people are giving? But another part is are they giving it in a way that you can take it? Can you comprehend it? Picking up the toothpicks, I would not have thought how different that was. But it is. To pick it up rather than do it with lines [on the page]. I bet you’re thinking a lot about education as you’re substituting. How did you start becoming a substitute? Is this a new experience?
Subbing for this district is, but I subbed—it was last year, the year before that—for Decatur. I subbed for Decatur Township for a semester. That was different. Even the kids are different, between districts.
JB: In Decatur, How would you describe that difference there?
I’m trying to find the right words. It’s different because, I guess they’re way of thinking is different. Because in Decatur the students are, they’re focus…I guess it’s more like the culture too, because it changes by district. Because at Arlington it’s this, it’s like…like pretty much like, “Get rich or die trying.” The kids, the mentality of them is just like, it’s the basic. Then over here at Decatur, it was just like the kids are more about school. And even if they’re playing, it’s a different type of play. It’s kind of hard for me to describe, but it’s like a different type of play at Decatur. Like if you say one thing to them [clicks], it was just like that immediately. But then over here, it just takes them so long just to get together. You constantly, constantly have to keep repeating yourself. Constantly, over and over. But in Decatur, it wasn’t even like that. You say one thing and they together.
JB: Like as a teacher giving instruction…to be honest, as a substitute are you carrying on the curriculum of the missing teacher?
Yeah.
JB: Are you there for one, two day or for weeks.
Sometimes it can be one day. Now, I’m at a two-week assignment at Arlington.
JB: Do you carry on their curriculum. I’m so curious. What are you doing?
Sometimes the teacher would leave like a folder. They would leave a substitute folder and say, okay, this is what we’re doing and would leave instructions. “They can’t leave the room. Please strictly enforce that.” They would leave specific instructions.
JB: So you know the rules of that classroom.
That’s exactly what I’m doing. Whatever they say to do, that’s exactly what I’m doing.
JB: You were saying, in Decatur, if you say something…might you say something like, “The teacher says you’re supposed to be working on chapter so and so. Everybody get out your books and read chapter so and so.”
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JB: And then they…
Do it.
JB: And then what happens at a different school.
They would be like, “Man…” They try to pull it on you like, “Oh, we aint’ got to do that…” But ‘cause you don’t know really, you don’t know. The only thing you have to go by is this piece of paper she done left and it doesn’t say anything that they talking about. They be trying, like “Well, we ain’t got to do that “ and “I ain’t doing it.” All of that, and plus too they know that you can’t really, you can’t as a sub--you can write somebody up definitely if they’re being very, very disruptive and disrespectful, but they know that you really can’t, because you really don’t have that power as a teacher, like a main teacher, so they’re try to pull that what on you, too. They try to do all of what they can. You know, so they won’t have to do their work. It was just…and then at Decatur, you can engage in conversation, like after they done with their work. You can engage in like…life conversations, you know? Like ask them questions and just have a discussion.
JB: Like you said earlier, somebody said something and you didn’t know what that was. I don’t know if that was at Arlington or Decatur. You’re realizing that you’re 27, but you’re not in with the “youth” culture anymore. What was something that you didn’t know what it meant—or can you say?
(laughs) Like if somebody said…these kids say so much. (laughs) What do they say? Like one of the ways that stood out to me was the other day was when they was like…no, this morning. One of them said, “Right on.” And to me, that would have been…he said, “I’m about to use the telephone.” And he used the telephone. The class telephone. But instead of saying thank you, he said, “right on.” To me, I automatically knew, okay, that meant thank you. And because I said to him, because he didn’t ask, I said, “You’re welcome.” He said, “Right on, man.” I’m just like, okay, that means thank you. I’m not that far. Cause somebody else would have been, “Right on what?” (laughs) I automatically knew what that was. Thank you. I still, in my head thinking like back to old school, like you could have said thank you.
JB: As an instructor you might have said, “You know, you could have said thank you.” You knew he meant it.
Just by him saying right on. Man, substitute teaching is stressful. It’s stressing my entire life and like in this classroom, because we are there for the amount of the time of the assignment, the length of the assignment. And you see what you can contribute to make the room better, like to make the education better for them so they can really learn, you know? So, the whole dynamic of the room. And you can change it, but you’re only there for this short period of time, and so it’s just kind of like, you don’t want to sit and do nothing, because you see these are lives and time is passing and they’re not doing anything. But you don’t want to jump in and do something because they’re used to doing nothing. It’s just like, what are you doing? Even today, I’m just like, okay, I’ve been here a week. I’m just like….and it’s still the same thing going on.
JB: The same thing going on is the pushing back—“Oh, we don’t have to do that”—is that what you mean?
Yeah.
JB: And you’re thinking, this could be better for your life if you get this knowledge. Kind of like you said, knowledge you don’t have because you were there [pushing back against the teacher].
Yeah and It’s the same thing with them…like just sitting around and not doing anything all day for eight hours, except on their cell phones. On the computer. And they’re able to get away with this because of the fact that there’s nobody that’s coming in and telling them to do anything different. And so when I say, “Put your cell phones up,” they look at me like, “Man, Mr. B allow us to have our cell phones out.” So, then when I’m saying Melita C: Warren 2006?
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something that is different from what they’re used to, that’s when a lot of the pushback come. You know? And then I just feel like, leave your cell phone out, because who am I to tell you to put it up? You’re used to doing this. But then when somebody else comes into the room—could be another teacher, the main guy over the special education department, he come into the room, and he makes it look like that I’m not doing my job, because he or she has their cell phone out. But I’ve told them over and over again to put it up. It’s just like—and they keep saying, “Well, Mr. B says we can have it out.” So, they leave it out. I mean, who am I? to tell them to put it up?
JB: You’re in a tough situation, unless he or she has written down, the teacher had said, “No, cell phones, no leaving the room.” And even when it’s on the paper, they still find a way to push back.
Yeah. But even then, too, it’s like there is no permanent teacher for this room. There’s no real teacher. And so the teacher who’s in this room is a paraprofessional. And so, he don’t even know what he doing. And so, there’s no real teacher in this room. This is his second year in this position, working with these students, but he’s only there as the assistant. He’s not there as the main teacher.
JB: Is there a main teacher?
There is no permanent teacher. The permanent teacher they had quit. And he went to Washington Township. So there is no main teacher. And all this time is passing and they’re just sitting here.
JB: And you’re saying this is special education
It’s a special education class. And they’re just sitting here. There’s nobody to come—I finally seen the man today who came in. He got two students out, like one at a time. He pulled them out of the classroom. I don’t even know what he does, ‘cause I looked at his little thing like I have on him and it didn’t say what he does. It just says he was coming in as a visitor. And then he brought him back to a room and that was it. A lot of these students, I realized today, are on probation. A lot of them are on probation, so they just sit in this room. And they keep seeing---one of the guys even said out loud, “Well, Mr. B, he said this homework ain’t this. The work ain’t this. Like the work we’re doing ain’t this.” He’s like, “Mr. B, he said, this is BS. So we just sitting here until, until whenever we can get out of here.” ‘cause he gets out on November 26, he get off of probation. So, November 26.
JB: So, the teacher is telling him, the system, this whole class is just BS.
Yeah, like even the work. We’re just in here for behavior. Like he even said that. The dude said that. And the little boy even said last week—‘cause he’s from all over, Chicago, Milwaukee, Gary—and so, he was just like, “This is almost like Cook County in here.” ‘Cause he’s been to the Boys School. He’s just like, “Man, y’all, we’re sitting here like we’re in Cook County Detention Center.” He said, “We just sit in here. That’s what we used to do in Cook County. We just sit all day. We don’t even do nothing. We just sit.” That’s what we used to do in Cook County. They have work, but the thing is they can’t read. And so some of them can’t even add. And so they sitting in this room. And so when he gives them packets and packets of work and expects them to do it, but they can’t even read. They can’t even add. It took one little boy 20 minutes to get through something that looked like this. And he 19 years old and he’s a senior. And he does have some special disability, but he’s not even getting help with his disability.
JB: He has a disability, but he’s---I’m really confused, because it’s called special ed, but you’re also saying it’s a kind of probationary room.
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JB: So, it’s like they were doing something wrong, but are identified as special education and the person who is leading the class is not a special education teacher.
Right. They label them emotional disability, emotionally disabled because of the fact that they “can’t” [her quotes] be amongst their peers or whatever. They can’t control their emotions, so we just going to label them emotionally disabled. But that’s not…I just think all of that’s a bunch of BS. Because that’s based on my history. I would have been emotionally disabled.
JB: I wondered what you thought about it. I guess, I wonder the same thing, hearing your story. What could they have done differently to make it work for you? I’m not saying it’s easy, but putting them all in a room and having a paraprofessional…
And it’s not even…legally, what I’m learning about the teacher Mr. B and all of that. He said, I’m not even supposed to be in this room, because of the fact that I’m not a licensed teacher. And he said that’s against the law for them, to even let me be in this room and unlicensed. And they’re on a hiring freeze. So they’re not even trying to hire new teachers. He just told me today, before I left—that’s why I was a little late is ‘cause I was talking to him. He was saying that his cousins, two of his cousins interviewed for the teachers position and they didn’t get it. And he says now they’re on a hiring freeze.
JB: Is Mr. B the one—
That’s in the room.
JB: You talk to him…you’re substituting for him, I thought.
No, it’s supposed to be two teachers. It has to be two teachers at all times.
JB: Mr. B is present, but he is the lead teacher even though he isn’t a teacher.
Yeah. He’s the lead teacher. He didn’t even know until—‘cause he went to a funeral, his aunt’s funeral, last Thursday and Friday. So, I was in there by myself. And so, when he came back today I told him what Mrs. Woodford told me—she’s next door. I told him that she said there was a hiring freeze and that nobody else was coming in. ‘cause I wanted to see how I could stay in the school for the rest of the school year or whatever. He said, “What?!” I said, “Yeah, it’s a hiring freeze.” He said, “Oh, no. They going to have to give me more money. If I’m going to be in here like that.” So, he told the kids this evening, too, that he has an interview Wednesday in Bellwood, Illinois, and if he gets the position, he’s leaving. So, he told the kids that today, too. Now, you about to have a huge mess because: one, you all not hiring; two, nobody wants to work there. Nobody wants to work for EdPower.
JB: Why do you say that? I wonder why they don’t?
Because of the way EdPower is set up. And the way it is designed that they don’t want…what I’ve been hearing from other teachers is they don’t want to work with people. And like he was saying that the teacher that was there last year, he did really well, Mr. Andrews. And he showed the students’ progress and what he was doing that was working. But he needed a raise. He documented everything, like the successes and everything like that. They told him like, “Oh, we don’t do raises.” And so he quit and he went to Pike. Ed Power, they just don’t want to work with them. They even took out all the programs. There’s nothing in the school but gym and band. They done took out all the programs. There’s no home ec, there’s nothing.
JB: When you say no programs, okay, like home ec. That a long time ago was very traditional, but some buildings don’t have it. They’re bringing it back to Washington. When you say no programs, no afterschool programs? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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Yeah. There’s only like…of course, there’s your traditional, like track and all the sports and stuff like that.
JB: They have track?
I think they have track. I know that they have basketball, but like what Mr. B was telling me today—when I worked at Arlington from ’06 to ’08 during my two years of service, they had a lot going on. That’s when Dr. Greenwood was there. So, they had a lot going on, like people from the community can come in and volunteer. And there was a Christian organization—I can’t remember what they were called, but they used to be all into the school. They had a lot of stuff going on for the kids. And the community and stuff like that. Since EdPowers came in, can’t nobody come in no more. All the different programmers and programs that was in the afternoon, they don’t let nobody around. They’re not allowing anybody into these schools at all. And so that’s what Mr. B was telling me today. He was telling me about the program I already knew of, but telling me that this was around and now it’s not anymore. He said he believes they’re not letting them in because they don’t want them to see what is going on, which is one of the--which is this classroom, the emotionally handicapped classroom. Because they don’t want nobody to see what they’re doing. Like he called it…I’m guessing not just him, a lot of people are calling it “poverty pimping,” like where they hold these kids for so long and then in February they get the money and they just start kicking them out. He said that’s what they do every year. They hold them and then kick them out. And then wait ‘til they come back next year.
I believe that Emma Donnan is by Ed Power, too. [It is run by Charter Schools USA out of Florida.] They holding them. They holding them long enough, count the numbers. And my first or second day there a couple of weeks ago, they was just coming in, counting them and leave. Counting them and leave. Count them and leave.
JB: What do you mean, count them and leave?
They would count them: one, two, three…
JB: Coming in the building?
In my class, in the emotionally handicapped room.
JB: OH, you mentioned that when I met you. They would come in and do a head count. Everybody here. And then go. Then what was your job as a substitute?
To make sure they didn’t kill each other.
JB: Was it another special education class or a math class.
It was another special education class; it was the same class, the one that I been in the past two weeks. It was the same class…at Arlington. Are you asking what I did at Emma Donnan?
JB: Yeah, what did you do there?
I was, what position was she?
JB: That was Charter Schools USA [Emma Donnan and Manual are managed by this company, not EdPower]. What was your experience, that’s what I want to know?
My experience at Emma Donnan was heartbreaking, ‘cause like I said, I went there.
JB: It was out of control then. I think the opposite is happening now. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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The opposite is happening now.
JB: You told me Saturday night: it’s a prison.
Yeah, it’s a prison. I was like, yeah, we used to run around and all of that, but we were still looked at as humans. Now, it’s not like that no more. It’s just like they’re going from room to room. As soon as they hit the hallways, it’s: “Get out of the hallways! Get out of the hallways!” It’s just like there’s a cop that stands at one end of the hall; there’s a cop officer that sits at one end of the hallway and so he just sits/stands out in the hallway. They have to wear their lanyards around their neck [with IDs attached] and they walk around with these little portable things and so if the kid does anything, they can scan their badge, print their receipt and they give it to them. (laughs) It’s just like…
JB: So they have this technology, so if a kid’s breaking a rule, they scan their…
Their badge.
JB: That freaks me out. So they scan the badge and print a ticket?
Yup, it’s like a portable scanner and a portable printer, and they just keep it on their hip and they just print. They print a receipt and give it to them.
JB: What do the kids get tickets for?
They get them for, I want to say, detention.
JB: What are the offenses?
Maybe, probably being disruptive, disorderly conduct and all of that. Probably talking, talking out of turn, anything probably that they could push in that little thing, in their portable scanners and they can write for it. I just think it’s crazy. And like they sit one side, the cafeteria, everybody has to sit on one side.
JB: Oh, you told me the students…is it like the cafeterias I’ve seen in IPS. It’s a table like this, a rectangular table and there’s like a picnic bench [seat].
Yeah, on both sides.
JB: But what they do there.
On one side.
JB: I’m sitting on one side of the picnic bench, but you’re not there.
No, I’m on your side.
JB: Do they just fold up the other side.
No, they just leave it down.
JB: So, it’s [the bench opposite is] down [but empty]. And we’re all in a row, facing the same way. What do I see when I’m looking?
The other person’s back. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: Row after row and benches half-filled.
Half-filled. And you’re teacher is sitting at the foot of your table. And so, there’s supposed to be a teacher per table…or every two tables there’s a teacher supposedly.
JB: This is lunch. Can they talk?
They can talk, but it has to be like really low and it can only be between you and the people that are next to you.
JB: Do they file in or can they sit wherever they want? You weren’t there that long.
No, that was a two-day assignment. They have to file in and they can only sit with their class that they came with. They can’t sit with anybody.
JB: It’s not a true social hour.
No, you have to sit with your last period class.
JB: Are these middle school [kids]?
Middle school.
JB: When you saw them do that you felt like…was that another feeling of prison.
Yeah, ‘cause it’s not social at all. Even people in prison probably get more social time than that. Not even just time—I don’t know for real. But that’s not real, right there. They can only talk to whoever’s to the side of them. You know? What if I don’t want to talk to this person? What if I don’t like this person sitting next to me? So, you telling me all day the only time I really have technically free, I’m sitting next to somebody I don’t like. Or that I can’t even relate to and like I don’t even want to talk to.
JB: How were the kids there when you were substituting?
They was unruly. Like the kids at Arlington. The kids at Arlington, they were (laughs)…they weren’t as tough as the kids I’m dealing with now, but they’re there. And like they were all…you can tell per class. Like you started with your first-period class and it was somewhat alright. And like the higher your class went, the more disabilities you deal with, and so, IEPs. Fourth, fifth and sixth period had disabilities. You could tell how they grouped them together, because of the fact that one—they had a teacher. They had a teacher that followed these classes around all day. They call them instructional aides there and so that teacher follows that class all day, because groups of students in that class has IEPs, so they need help re-directing them and stuff like that. That’s why they need to have a second teacher in the room with them, and so…
JB: They need help with re-directing and to me, again, that’s a behavioral issue. Did you see any help that had to do with academic supports?
They needed academic support. The teachers just did it for them.
JB: Were you telling me [when we first met] something about reading? Would you mind repeating it?
I don’t mind. The teacher fourth period class, fourth or fifth class, instead of asking the students, do they want to read, she just said, “I’ll read it for you.” But the instructions, like I told you, the teacher left instructions, well the instructions that she gave me said: Allow the students to read alone. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: There’s a piece of paper with maybe a paragraph on it? [yeah] And it’s like, have the students read the paragraph and--
Answer the questions on the back.
JB: And so the person who is…
The instructional aide.
JB: She said, “I’ll read that for you.”
Because she felt like…the students primarily, to me, are lazy. They don’t ever want to do anything. They just want everybody to do it for them. That’s what it is, because they have been so used to the teachers just doing it for them, because of their disability, that’s what they ride on now. That’s how they have adjusted themselves. They have become accustomed to people doing it for them. And so that’s what she said, that’s why she was just like, “Well, I’ll read it and we can just answer the questions together.” She’s like, “I’ll just read it and you guys can follow along.” One of the young boys said, “Can I read?” She’s like, “Oh, sure! Yeah, you can read.” She’s like, “Yeah, okay.” And then the other guy’s like, “Can I read?” She’s like, “You can just read after him.” That’s when they started the whole reading like that. Like I told you, I was just thinking, why didn’t you just let them read in the first place?
JB: Interesting that you observed that. It didn’t ring right for you. If these kids are capable of reading, why are you doing it?
Yeah. And then even when it came to them answering the questions—the questions were basic. When was Langston Hughes born? “I don’t know. I don’t know.” You do know when he was born. You want me to tell you. The only thing I did was turn the paper over and I kind of put parentheses around the paragraph and said, “Go look for it.” I’m not about to do it for you. I will guide you. However, I’m not doing it for you, ‘cause you are very intelligent and I know that you can find when Langston Hughes was born. Some of that was okay, but the way she did it, she read through the question and she turned it over and she found the answer for them. Then the only thing they had to do was just regurgitate what she said. And then write it down. That’s not, that’s not helping them at all. (laughs) You already told them the answer. You know? It was just kind of like that, that was going on. It’s just sad. The expectations of the students is not high, it’s not high at all. It’s just do enough so you can still be here and I can continue to keep being paid. That’s pretty much where it’s at. To me, that’s how I feel. They’re not learning much.
JB: The thing you said about Arlington--get rich or die--was that what you said?
I’ve been around these kids too long. Get rich or die trying.
JB: Why does that come to your mind? Does somebody say that kind of thing? What does that come from?
It actually came from a movie. It was 50 Cent Movie. It’s what I say, because it’s all the kids on the cell phones, blasting music about getting rich and making money. One little boy that’s in the class, he talking about all his family that been murderers and got 130 years, 200 years. “My cousin just got locked up.” And all of that. He’s talking about, “I’m getting money, I’m getting money. I’m going to stash and invest it.” That’s what I told him the other day. I told him, “You got two options.” And I was just talking to him. “You either got the cradle or the grave.” He said, “Nope. I got three options.” And I said, “Three?” I’m really shocked by this time. He said, “Yeah, I got three options. The cradle, the grave or I can just get rich.” And that’s when I said, “Or die trying.” He said, “No, no. I ain’t going to die, ain’t going to die.” And so, I’ve just been talking to Tim, like he got in a real fight. Like real big fight, feud, like last week. And his face, it was swollen and it wrist was swollen. It’s just crazy. It’s Melita C: Warren 2006?
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just like, how do you get to the educational piece if hourly they’re experiencing these things and they come into the classroom and you tell him to sit down to do 2k +7? You know? Algebraic expressions and all of that. That boy, last week, I couldn’t even…I just left him alone, because he was beaten up so bad. I even asked him, “Why did you even come to school?” “I don’t know. I don’t know, Miss C. I don’t know.” But I’ve been talking to Tim; I even gave him a free ticket to the feature that I had last week, ‘cause I really wanted him to come. He’s into music and stuff like that. I know slowly but surely, I’m getting to him, but…these kids, it’s going to take a lot more work than just being in there for the past two weeks. He leaves November 26, so….
JB: The teacher?
No, Tim, the young boy I’m talking about. He’s off of probation, so his dad might let him go back to his mother back in Milwaukee, which he calls Kilwaukee now. Tim calls it that, ‘cause they doing all that killing up there. But they think…I guess, their religion…’cause when I was talking to Tim last week, I said, “Tim. How can we get you out?” I was really talking to him. I said, “What can I give you, like how much do you want?” He’s like, “Oh, I can’t get out, Miss C. I can’t get out.” I said, “Why not?” He was just like, “it’s in me. It’s in me. And ain’t no getting out. It’s in me.” I was talking to him before I went to lunch. And so when I went to my car and I said to myself, like what does he mean, “it’s in me, it’s in me”? I kept searching my soul. What does he mean by that? So, then it hit me. He meant that it’s in him, because of the fact that he was born into that, like his father is what they call an OG. You know, he was saying how his father has groomed him for this lifestyle. So it’s just like…pretty much his god is his father. And that’s when it hit me. That’s what he means, “it’s in him.” They do all type of stuff, like if you was to go to church, your every Sunday ritual, but they have an everyday ritual. It’s just, that’s what he mean by it’s in him. Oh, I got that. Got it. It’s sad. Every day you’re dealing with trying to get them to read, but every day, they dealing with stuff that takes place outside that. And even if you wanted to get out, would his father allow him to get out? Would that be a dishonor to your family? I told him, you didn’t even have a chance to choose. Now, you’re getting older; now you have a chance to choose ‘cause you older. You have a choice, you know? It’s just a lot.
But I would like—last week, I was working with them. There’s some of them that’s hungry for knowledge, but like I said, it’s like how do you get them to take a test so you can figure out what type of learner they are. You have to really learn by observation. And so, I’ve been learning. Okay, Keenan, he learns this way, he learns by doing. Trinity, she learns by hearing, so it’s just like, how do you…these kids aren’t going to take no test, ‘cause they’ve always had a choice. It’s never like, okay, “You have to do this.” Because I believe you have to make a kid do something until they’re able to make the right decision, to choose what’s right. These kids, they ain’t been made to do nothing. Every day, they can wake up and choose to whether they going to school or not. Since four or five years old. How do you choose to go to school at four? That’s not a choice. So they never were even able…for someone to make the right decision for them, until they were old enough to make the right decision for themselves. You know? It’s just…it’s a lot that goes on in that classroom every day.
I think, too, it’s the administration, ‘cause if I tell them to do something and they get sent to the office, administration ain’t going to do nothing but slap them on their wrists and then they going to come back and cause more problems, because nobody’s doing anything. Nobody is saying, “Okay, this is not right.” They’re just allowing them to do whatever they want. If I’m saying no, and then you’re saying yes as a parent, it’s going to always be imbalanced. Me and Mr. Bernstein, we in this room and we teammates. You saying yes and I’m saying no and they mad at both of us, ‘cause I’m mad at them. You know what I’m saying? (laughs) It’s a mess. You can’t make them do their work, ‘cause they’re so used to not doing it. They just throw the paper on the floor. And then, you can’t make them do it, ‘cause they can’t do it. If you can’t read it, then why are you going to do it? Then there isn’t anything else for you to do, so what do you do? You go around a room and you torture everybody. Everybody and everybody got these emotional disabilities, so everybody’s going to be in an uproar. So that’s pretty much what it is. Everybody’s in an uproar. And so now, you got to calm this kid down, calm this Melita C: Warren 2006?
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kid down, tell this kid to sit down, do your work, but you can’t do your work, because you can’t read it. I don’t have the time to explain to you how to do it, because you missing the other foundational parts to even lead you up to this point. So, I can’t tell you to do something that you don’t even know the formal [?].
It’s pretty much like Tim said the other day. He said, “Man, y’all babysitting.” I couldn’t tell you that you’re right. Then you’ll know that you right. And then you’ll tell somebody else that I said we babysitting. That’s just what we doing. We babysitting. And then we try to look like we working, ‘cause we tell them to do their work. Like last Thursday and Friday when Mr. B wasn’t there, I had them working. I had them working. I created a little math game for them and stuff like that. They was running to the board, figuring out problems. And then Thursday, they took a test and if they took the test right, whatever one that they got wrong, they got a minute knocked off of their 15 minutes—15 minutes of the computer. That’s their main thing, the computer. There’s only four computers and there 17 students and that never works out. And so, every 15 minutes, they’re supposed to rotate.
JB: What do they do on the computer?
You-Tube. You-Tube all day. Blasting Young Soulja Slim or whoever the boy name and Trill Mob and all this rap music. It’s all day, constant, all day. “Turn the music down. Turn the music down. Turn the music down.” And it’s all day, all day. Some of the boys like, on their phones, they be watching pornos, all day. And then you can’t tell them to put the phones up, because if you tell them…it will cause a massive, massive…they’ll put it up for a little bit and then you tell them to do their work, but they can’t. They don’t understand the work. They don’t know how to act, they don’t know how to multiply. You are really, really starting from scratch. And it’s 7-12th grade in this room, so they all are at different levels, so you can’t start with two plus two, what JB need to be learning, ‘cause he don’t even know how to add or he don’t know how to read, so you’s doing two plus two over here, but Trinity who’s 14, she can be on algebra and she don’t even need this. So she’s bored. So she’s going to start acting a fool, because…it’s terrible. (laughs) It’s beyond terrible in this classroom. So, I can see why nobody wants to work in it. What you really need like maybe three teachers. One teacher could take one group, one teacher could take another group, one teacher take another group and kind of do it like that. It’s almost trying to find a needle in a haystack. Some days it’s good, some days it’s bad. Some days you just really let them do what they want, because that’s the only way to keep peace. Like if you quiet, alright then. Ain’t nobody going to come in here and check on you anyways, ‘cause they don’t. Just sit down, just be still and be quiet. If you want to get on the computer, get on the computer. Whatever’s going to keep you quiet ‘til three o’clock. It just makes me sad, ‘cause they come in every day and leave out with nothing new, knowledgeable. Nothing. They have gangs. Even just in life, like some of the boys stink so bad. Like, do you know how to wash up, literally? For real. Do you know how to wash up? ‘Cause some of them stink so bad that it’s just like, come on. Even learning a life skill. Like learn anything. They come in here, eight hours and they go. They haven’t learned anything. And you’re coming to school. It makes me sad, because I don’t even think some of the parents know what’s going on. If I knew that my son, who is especially handicapped or emotionally disabled and he’s coming to school just to sit in a classroom? Oh. And he’s not getting the help that he needs. Unh huh. No, no. I couldn’t do that. I really believe if some of these parents knew, their kids would not be going there.
I think there’s been a lot of stuff that’s been fabricated on paper and then the parents don’t know. The kid could probably go home and say, “Mom, I been sitting in this room all day.” “Now boy, you go to school.” You know how some people think. You at school; you supposed to be learning--that kid is lying. “Oh, no! You at school boy. You better be learning.” No. ‘Cause my mom was the same way. I could tell her my teacher hit me in the face with a book. “Ahhh! No she didn’t, no she didn’t.” I’m like, alright. Of course, they going to believe the adults, because it’s an adult over a kid. I don’t even think these parents know and that’s the sad part. These kids are losing out daily that they don’t learn nothing. I always tell them, I just want y’all to learn one thing. That’s it. Whatever you take away from here, I don’t want you sitting eight hours and not knowing nothing. Thursday and Melita C: Warren 2006?
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Friday was very successful. Very, very successful. I let them do whatever they want all day. I said, give me one hour. So, at the end of the day, that’s when we went over the math and we did a math game at the end. And they really, really enjoyed that. Just trying to find things to keep them engaged. I always think about situations like that. I think about them like myself. As you can see, I was that kid. Like I had to be engaged, I had to be a part of the class. I guess, nowadays they give them medicine, but then they also label them, so they don’t have to be in the immediate classroom. They can separate them. So that those kids…that bad apple don’t spoil the rest. And so, they just separate them.
JB: Is that bad apple getting any help?
No. no. They’re just there. They just [want] their numbers. It’s a tragic, tragic, tragic situation. And I go in every day and I go, “What can I do differently?” But then it’s such a huge problem. This one thing, it’s not going to impact the whole thing, but then I tell myself, it’s just this one little thing. It doesn’t matter how small it is. I just know that I did it. I don’t know. It’s tragic. ‘cause they not getting what they need. I guess a lot of people feel, “oh, well they older. They grow up and out of the system.” Tim even said today, “We don’t get no report card out of here. Do we get a report card?” And Mr. B, I don’t even know what he said. He know he don’t get no report card. They don’t get no report card. It seems like they catching on. They catching on to this…what Tim call it, this BS. Of course, he said the real thing. They catching on to it and they getting mad, because they ain’t no results. But we keep telling them daily to do work and the only thing Mr. B does is he piles it up on the projector. He just allows them to turn it in. He don’t check it. He just allows them to put what they want on the paper. And it’s me that’s going back and be like, “That ain’t right, that ain’t right.” Like I told one little boy today, “I said, man you did your paper.” He said, “I did do my paper, Miss C!” I said, “You did it, but you didn’t do it right.” He said, “Mr. B, he don’t care. He just want us to turn it in.” I said, “What? How? What is it to have the paper turned it, but it ain’t done right? You don’t even know what you’re doing.” This is what I’m telling him and he’s like, “It’s done, it’s done.” I said, “Bring me your packet, Robert.” I checked his packet. A lot of it is done right. However, some of it isn’t done right at all.” I said, “What is a variable?” He said, “What is a variable?” I said, “That means you didn’t do the packet right.” Uhhh. It’s just stuff like that every day, ‘cause my expectations for them is very high. I know what they capable of if they sit down and we figure out how they learn and teach it to them like that. They are very capable of a lot; it’s just all they life, they’re expectations have been down here. Instead of up here. And they haven’t been held accountable for anything. They don’t have any accountability and no responsibility. So, they don’t do nothing. Anybody that comes in and tries to do something different, that person ain’t right. That person is looked at, as like they said to me, “Why are you being so mean today, Miss C?” I’m like, “I’m not. I’m just trying to get you all to understand. This isn’t how life works.” So, now Mr. B comes in at the end of class and he says…he gets them all together and he says, “I’ve done a terrible disservice to you all by allowing you all to do whatever it that you all want, because of your circumstances and your disabilities and stuff like that. But from here on out I’m going to hold you all accountable to what you all doing. I’m going to give you all three re-directives and if you all don’t do it in those three times, you all getting wrote up and you all getting sent out.” All at the same time, saying, “Well, I got an interview Wednesday and I’m leaving if I get the position.” What? Now, you want to put the clamps on them tighter. But then in the same breath, you leaving on Wednesday. That makes no sense, man. (laughs) You should have been and said that. You know? I feel sorry for them kids. ‘cause they just been like…what’s that…a shifter…a strainer. They been in a strainer and the water’s just been running on them, running through the holes. They just been passing up everything, nothing’s hitting them because of their situation. They’re missing the valuable parts of life. It always makes me wonder, like, if stuff was different, how would these kids actually turn out? Who would they really be if they actually had people to—even their parents—to pour into them? I know a lot of the stuff do start at home. Not even just about education; it comes down to family life. What if their family was properly educated and brought up right? Would this generational curse that they say, would this end? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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There’s another little boy, 16, got a set of twins. It’s just like, he just had them a week ago. And I talk to Mike all the time. I’m like, “Mike?” He just thinks it’s cute; he just think it’s funny. I’m just like, man. What do you tell a kid who’s a father? He does look like he’s 30. But what do you tell him? I asked him, are you going to get into any programs? He’s like, “I’m not about to…I’m going to try to do something. I’m not about to do that though.”
JB: What programs?
Like Fathers and Families, anything. Job Corps, to get out of here. He’s 16. It would take his mother to enroll him in some of this stuff and his mother doesn’t even know he’s got twins. He don’t want to tell her. All of that. I’m just like…I just sit back sometimes, just thinking. What can we do? It’s a massive problem all across the board, from life to school and all of that.
JB: Thank you for sharing.
You’re welcome.
JB: There’s nothing I can say. It’s hard. I appreciate that you went in there. You could be one, but that’s up to you.
I don’t know what to do.
JB: I there anything else? You’ve helped me a lot. Is there anything else you want to say? It’s been a lot and it’s been great. I’m only saying it, because I’ve got a lot to think about, but I didn’t want to cut you short. You’ve definitely said a lot.
I guess, it’s my last thing and then I’ll stop talking. One of the things, what happened last week when Mrs. Woodford was in the classroom—she’s an older lady. She has to be in her sixties. And so, she was working with a group of kids. I don’t never have problems out of these kids like the way that she says. It’s almost like what I told you, when I was younger, like because there’s so much going on in the room, like if one kid wants to do something it distracts the whole thing? That’s what happens with her, because she’s older, and so if the kids are talking or something like that. And she like, “Boy, I told you to be quiet! I told you to be quiet! Didn’t I say to be quiet?!” I’m like, if she just keeps going on and on and on. But the kids, its’ like, “Ma’am, calm down.” She’s getting on them, but she’s yelling at them. It’s just like, if you give respect—older people think that they don’t…well, I grew up, they feel like they don’t have to give respect to kids. They feel like, it’s earned and you’re a child, I can disrespect you all day. They don’t never understand—I’m guessing they understand now—you can only beat the dog for so long before it retaliates, you know. You have to give respect in order to get respect. Just because he’s a child or we are children, that don’t mean nothing. You still have to respect them. I’m just looking…I mean, she’s just yelling like blood vessels and everything’s popping. I’m just like, “Ma’am.” And then she’s mad because they are coming back at her. But you don’t have to do it like that. You know what I’m saying? People have to change with the change. You can’t stay the same as you once were and think you’re going to get the same results. Because these kids aren’t like 1945 and all of that. These are a different breed of kids. You have to come at them with respect in order to get it. It was just so sad for me to see her like that. I mean, she was yelling and everything. I’m just like, “Ma’am, calm down.” I wanted to tell her. (laughs) Calm down. I’m standing in front of her. And she’s like, “See what I’m talking about?! These boys, they so disrespectful.” She’s like, “I know you. You don’t deal with them like that, do you?” I’m just like, no. I don’t have the same problems like you either. It’s just crazy because a lot of them, like they yelling and yelling and getting all hyped. They don’t take all that. They have to know that you respect them and they going to give you the respect. I promise you they are. She just tripping me out with that. But that’s just the older generation, you know, the older teachers. You have to change with the times, because if you don’t, you’re going to have to deal with that. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: It’s not working. She’s yelling and there’s just more yelling. It didn’t have the result that she might have liked. That’s my test: If it’s not working…
Yeah. But then she’ll say, “But they being disrespectful. They being loud.” But I’m like, “It’s how you are approaching them.” I can tell a group of kids, “Hey, can you all please calm down.” “Alright, Miss C.” And I’ll say, “Hey, can you sit down?” “Alright, Miss C. I’ll sit down.” You ain’t have to stand up on the table and say, “Sit down! I said sit down!!” Like, I didn’t have to do all that. I just, “Can you just sit down, please?” Or I’ll say, “Mr. Beech, can you sit down, please.” See then, I didn’t disrespect them, so they can’t disrespect me. You know what I mean. I didn’t give them any room to do that. They just got to learn. Look, I’m not even talking about the kids. The teachers got to learn. They got to learn…quick.
JB: Sounds like you’re learning.
I’m learning and my experience makes me know already. I can see because I’ve been there. I can see the behavior, because I was that kid. I was that person. I see it. That’s the only way that I’m able to tap in. ‘cause I been there. But I’m done.
[This was the end but Melita mentioned more about her AmeriCorps’ work at Arlington. She created or helped create The First Arlington Community, Career and Health Expo the school year before the state takeover would take effect. It included arts in the gym. Also, she started a Student Council where all students where anybody can get in; admittance is not based on grades.]
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Melita C: Warren 2006?
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I met Melita at Outspoken spoken word event in the fall of 2013. She had just had an eye-opening week as a substitute teacher at Emma Donnan, currently run by Charter Schools USA due to the state takeover. She also subbed at Arlington, run by EdPower. As a child, she attended township schools before IPS 96, 60 and Emma Donnan, plus middle and high schools in Warren. (Foxhill in Washington Township; possibly Harcourt School in Pike?) She recorded 9/23/13 at Glendale Library.
JB: You told me you went to IPS. Was that the first place you ever went to school? [Kindergarten was 1992 for Melita]
No. My first place, I believe, was…I want to say Foxhill Elementary or it was either Harcourt Elementary out West off of Michigan Road [I can’t find a school with this name; from location it could be Pike Township]. And so we went in between school. Elementary I started off, I believe, Foxhill and then—
JB: Do you think that’s in township?
That’s in a township.
JB: I’m not that knowledgeable about the West yet. But you’re still living in Indianapolis. Were you outside the beltway? Or you’re too young to notice! (laughs)
(laughs) Too young to notice. I have no clue. (laughs)
JB: So you went to Foxhill…
Foxhill and then Harcourt. Foxhill, Harcourt, and then we stayed out North. I guess Northwest. And then after that…that was like Kindergarten elementary. It was Kindergarten. And so then after that, we went to School 96. I went there…I want to say…first through fifth grade. I believe. Miss Callahan. I love Miss Callahan. I don’t know. She was so mean.
JB: So mean?
She was mean. But she was like real strict. I was used to that, ‘cause that’s how my family is. And so she was strict. And anytime Miss Callahan would wear this—I remember this still to this day—this leopard-print cheetah…it had a whole bunch of animals on it, but she would wear it and we just knew on that day, we did not mess Miss Callahan. Like at all. Like it was that particular outfit.
JB: I wonder how the outfit got connected with, “This is the tough day.”
I don’t know if she told us that or we just knew that. I think she wore it like once a week, thought. I really think so.
JB: Or did it look foreboding? The cheetah outfit, did it look a little…
It did. It did. It kinda did. Yeah, it was like a cheetah. It was a two-piece set. It was a skirt. And it was a shirt, short sleeve. And it had these cheetahs all over it. It was the weirdest thing to me. But we just knew that day not to mess with her.
JB: What grade was she?
What grade was I? I think I want to say, it had to be fourth or fifth grade.
JB: Oh, was she the teacher or the principal? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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She was the principal. Miss Callahan was the principal.
JB: You liked her. You smiled when you said that [she was tough]. You said that at home they had the same attitude.
Yeah. She did. She just kind of reminded me of my grandmother, ‘cause my grandmother was really strict and stern. But yeah. I even got paddled, I think, by Mrs. Callahan and so (laughs). That was when corporal punishment was still in the schools. [This was late nineties]. I believe I got paddled by her. I was always in her office. Always. And so, but we kind of built a relationship, I guess.
JB: When you said you were always in her office, I got to know why. Whatever you can tell me. What would get you sent to the office? I’m assuming you were sent; you didn’t just stop to say, Hi.
Yeah, I was sent. And I think because…Not I think. I know. I was very disruptive. I was very disruptive. I was always talking, like I was the class clown, I’m guessing. And it followed me all the way up. I was very…out of control, in a way, you know. And so I always got sent to her office. Like, they was just tired of me.
JB: A teacher would be tired. When you say “out of control”—I’m interested in all facets of being a child and going to school—so when you say you’re out of control, are you talking with other kids? Or is there something else going on? Is that enough to make a teacher mad?
I think…now that I’m a substitute…that is enough.
JB: (laughs)
‘Cause when you have 25 of them and you got this one that keeps doing all of this, back and forth, back and forth. And you got the rest 24 that’s trying to keep up with that one going back and forth. I guess, that is enough. When you’re out of control…I wouldn’t say like I was standing on a desk, like what they do now, but it’s just like…to them I was out of control, because it was a lot of us to keep up with. Now that I’m older…
JB: What did you want to talk about [in school]? Do you remember?
I don’t know. It could have been anything. I guess I was bored, too. I guess, too, I didn’t really understand what was going on in school and so I kind of like really distracted myself, trying to keep myself engaged and stuff. And so sometimes, I would be asking like, what is this or what is that? Or, you know, just asking questions. But it was just kind of out of turn. Because I didn’t raise my hand. I didn’t ask the teacher. Sometimes either I was bored or I just didn’t know. So, it was just like a lot of [books], trying to ask the question or not knowing. And she wasn’t getting to me fast enough probably. You know, so…
JB: Down in Callahan’s, what would happen there?
(pause) I’m trying to remember. I think one time, I went down there and she just talked to me like I just ate my lunch in her room. I think…that’s what I remember. I do remember being paddled by her. But…I didn’t think nothing of it, because I was getting paddled and stuff at home. I wasn’t too much scared about it all.
JB: When people bring up being punished, I wonder what the reaction is. IT doesn’t sound like it was making a big impression on you.
No.
JB: There’s not an emotion around. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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It always made me angry. Being hit on does not change the child from doing something. It just creates fear in them. They still have that desire to do it and occasionally, we still do it. Because the pain, it went away and the thought of getting a whooping, we just don’t care. Like at that point in time of me doing something like, Yeah, I know, it will go away. But it still doesn’t change my desire.
JB: It’s a temporary thing [the whooping].
Yeah, it’s a temporary thing. And so, it made me angry. It made me rebel in a lot of areas. ‘Cause I just always felt like, that’s not what I need. I need this.
JB: I wonder what you did need.
I did. Now that I’m older, I notice what I needed was not for you to whoop me, but I needed you to instruct me. Like…discipline me because I need it in some way, but with the discipline give me instruction. Give me why it is. Just tell me why. Like I’ve always been a very curious child. Like, just tell me why. Like, that’s all I need. If you tell me why I shouldn’t be doing this, then I’ll be fine.
JB: Like maybe you could have understood why is it such a big deal that I’m chatting.
Yeah.
JB: As a teacher today, you get it. As the kid, you didn’t get it.
I did not get that at all. (laughs) Didn’t get it at all. But, yeah. Just tell me. I think that’s what I was needing. But also, don’t just tell me like, tell me with love though. Don’t just tell me with, “’Cause I want you to.” That’s kind of the mentality of the old days. You do it because I said so. You know? That wasn’t enough for me. I don’t care what you say. Just tell me like why? That’s all I wanted was a “why?” ‘Cause nobody told me, ‘cause they felt like you didn’t need an explanation, because you were a child. And so, a lot of that mentality still exists today. And so…but that’s not helpful. It doesn’t get anybody anywhere.
So…through [School] 96, I believe I went to school…some point I went to School 60 off on the by Meridian.
JB: 34th and Meridian, near Shortridge?
Near Shortridge, yeah.
JB: What happened? What was the change, time for middle school or you moved?
We moved. Yeah, we moved a lot.
JB: It sounded like you said that you might have had a move in the middle of Kindergarten. You went to 96 for first through fifth grade. But maybe there was moving going on?
Yeah. Moving in there, too.
JB: And for sixth grade, is that when you went to School 60?
No. School 60 had to come in between like third. It had to come in between 96, because of the fact that I went to School 60 and that was an elementary school. I think I could have gone to school 60 for fifth grade. Yeah, this is a mixture of stuff. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: I understand. When you’re moving and you’re young, you’re not necessarily keeping track of things. Let me go back to how old you are, so we can put it on a time line. If you don’t mind sharing your birth year or the year you would have gone to Kindergarten, that’s your birth year plus five.
It would have been ’92.
JB: Kindergarten ’92. Do you have any memories of Kindergarten?
I got a lot of bad memories. I don’t have anything really good. I got one good memory. I think it was Kindergarten. I had to think. Because when we read the whole book, The Green Eggs and Ham, and we made the green eggs. I think…that was pretty awesome. But I cheated on my spelling test and I remember the word, which was “red.” And I would never forget it. And I had my paper out. This was random…however.
JB: It’s good. It’s interesting.
I had the paper out and I got caught cheating on the word “red.” It’s funny, ‘cause now the color red is my favorite color. (laughs) So, but…let me see.
JB: You had a spelling test in Kindergarten?
Yeah, it had to be Kindergarten, because I was allowed to fix…
JB: We didn’t have spelling in my Kindergarten. When you first said, “Oh, Kindergarten. I have a lot of bad memories and a couple of good.” So the eggs. You got to make the eggs. You read the book and then you got to make the eggs.
Yeah, we made them in class.
JB: did you add dye?
I think we did.
JB: Now, the bad…for me bad/good, I’m neutral to it. But if you say something is bad then I’m wondering, gee, what was it? Was it something about school that you wanted to share? What was bad for you? (after pause) The red, getting caught?
Yeah, that was terrible. I guess ‘cause of the way she did it. She was real loud about it and I guess I was embarrassed about it. Because she called me and like she made a real big scene about it. And I really believe that’s the reason I remember, is because she made a huge scene about it.
JB: Were you looking at someone’s paper?
No. You know how the desks were made, like they still have them, where you put all your stuff and so, I pulled the paper out a little bit. And of course, she was looking at me, so…she seen me. She was real loud. I just remember it like it was yesterday. She was real loud. I just remember her calling my name real louds. She made a real big to do about it. What else? That was pretty terrible.
JB: You were terrible?
No, I was told I was terrible.
JB: This was all in Kindergarten. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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This is just through life. That I was terrible. Oh! It was something else. Oh, I got into a fight. I was in Kindergarten. We used to always fight on the bus stop. Always. And it was these people next door, who lived next door to us. And so, we was fighting on the bus stop and I just remember wearing a denim Oshkosh dress. It was a dark denim Oshkosh dress and I had on white stockings and these black shoes, black dress shoes. And this girl said—her name was Velita—it was her. Her brother was special ed. But she had another brother, so it was three of them and it was three of us. And I believe it was more kids than that for them next door. I remember her saying something about my mama and I just remember it was raining outside and I remember being on top of her. And I just remember getting up and I wasn’t dirty. And so, I’m just like [sighs], oh. I just remember and getting up and I wasn’t dirty. I was okay. I’m just like, man. If I was dirty I was going to go home and get in trouble ‘cause my stockings is dirty and all of that. I just remember then going to the school and they pulling me and my brother aside, come to the front. They told us that because we were fighting so much on the bus stop that we were going to get in trouble, get suspended, whatever. So they talked to us about the whole big fight that went on at the bus stop. But I remember that. That had to be in Kindergarten or first grade, somewhere along that line. But we rode the bus together and stuff. I was going to school with my older siblings, so it had to be in like first grade or somewhere. I just know that the girl was in fourth grade, so…
JB: Oh, my. She’s a lot older than you.
She was.
JB: And she said something hurtful.
Yeah, she said something…but they always were saying something.
JB: I appreciate you sharing all that stuff, ‘cause I just think it still goes on. Peoples’ feelings get hurt, they get into fights and we’re always trying to figure out---well, I hope we’re trying to figure out how to make it nicer for the kids. You were reprimanded, you and your brother. Did the other kids get reprimanded?
Yeah, I think. I want to remember. I believe they were with us, like they pulled everybody together, ‘cause we always stood on the bus stop together. So, I believe everybody got pulled together. I just remember vaguely like me and my brother being there. But I don’t remember if they were there. I know we were. Because we were mad at my sister, because she didn’t have to come with us, because she wasn’t in the fight. She wouldn’t help us. We were mad at her. We still are mad at her. (laughs) She wouldn’t help us.
JB: You were saying that you moved a couple of times, so you went to a township school. You think you went to 96 next?
It was 96 next.
JB: This is still 1-2, something like that. You went to 60 in maybe third grade, a family move?
Yeah. The family moved.
JB: Did you walk to 96?
No I didn’t. We rode the bus.
JB: How about when you went to 60? Are you able to walk or are you taking the bus?
We walked, ‘cause we lived on New Jersey. And so we walked to school then. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: Did you notice any differences about going to School 60. Walking, that’s a difference. Anything else? [she pauses] Or were you there long enough to have impressions?
No, it was still ran the same, I believe. It always seemed as if my reputation followed me. You know, like…it could just have been me though. Because I was always treated I was at the school before. And it just always seemed like it followed me. I was always in…like now that I’m talking to you about this…this is crazy, but I always was in trouble. I was always, always in trouble. And so…but it was nothing ever anything good established at all. So to me, it was always the same. And so…I was walking home, I remember, from School 60, like I was bullied a lot in school. We stayed at that time—probably still is until they do the whole renovation of that area, but like, it was a rough neighborhood, School 60. I mean, New Jersey and stuff like that. I remember one time walking home and like it was a group of kids who didn’t like me and my brother, so like those group of kids—and they lived in our neighborhood as well—walking home and they was just throwing…I believe it was rocks. Yeah, they was throwing rocks at me. Like I was walking with another friend of mine, but for some odd reason, she went another direction, but I kept going the direction I went to. But they was just throwing rocks and stuff like that. This was terrible. I just remember crying like all the way home. And so…yeah. That’s what…I remember what outfit I had on and everything. That was terrible. I just remember like I got put out…I was fourth grade… I think it was fourth or fifth grade, because I remember saying, “Mama, I’m only 11.” I was screaming and crying because I came home from school and my mother was talking about taking me to Girls School, ‘cause I got in trouble and she didn’t want to have any part or whatever. I was just screaming and crying, crying and screaming. Like, “Take me to my grandma! Take me to my grandma!” And I remember leaving my colorful book bag. I loved that book bad. And I left it outside one the street and when we came back home, it wasn’t there anymore. And so, like I was hurt. Even when I talk about it now, like I loved that book bag. And it was gone. I was just screaming and crying.
JB: Was it still the day when you had rocks being thrown at you.
No, this was a separate day. I’m mixing it together.
JB: there are a lot of things running through that, you’re mom saying you should go to Girls School. What is Girls School?
It’s a prison.
JB: That’s what I thought.
(laughs)
JB: What did you think when she said that?
I was hurt. I was hurt. Because I’m just like nothing I could have done…I knew then that you only went to Girls School when you got locked up or something. And so, I didn’t get locked up, so I kept trying to figure out, like why am I going to Girls School? I even told her while I was screaming, “I’m too young to go to Girls School!” I kept saying, “Take me to my grandma! Take me to my grandma!” (laughs) That was a foolish day.
JB: Did you go to your grandma’s?
No, I don’t know where we went.
JB: I was just transcribing a story where a man talked about Boys School and here you are 11. It sounds like one of those things parents might say, like “We’re going to have to send you to…” We used to call it military school. [My husband had a friend in suburban Chicago whose family finally did send him to military school as a teen.] Melita C: Warren 2006?
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But this is the step after military school, getting locked up. It sounds like she was just saying it like, “What am I going to do?” Kind of throwing up her hands?
Yeah.
JB: As an 11 year old, it feels real.
It felt real real. I’m just like…I mean, you’re sitting in the back seat. You don’t have no control over that steering wheel at all. And so, wherever she took you, that’s where you ended up.
One of the things I wanted to get back to was School 96. When I was talking…like my reputation always followed me. I always, in first grade I remember I had my high and my low points. And so I could have been a really good kid if I really wanted to, if I was really focused, all of that. In my moments that I wanted to be good, my bad over-rode, it over-rode my good. And so, it was just like…it just seemed as if people were stuck on that one part of me, you know? I just remember this like very, very strong. I think it was first grade, had to be first or second grade. And I remember this girl had this—at this time these pencils were really, really popular. They were shaped into something, you know, like it could have been a penguin or a flamingo, whatever. You know, back in the day, these pencils were really popular. And so this girl had this pink flamingo pencil. It was shaped like a flamingo and the eraser was orange or yellow. And so, she...it was laying on her desk. I know this little boy broke it. I looked at him, he was swinging on her desk and he was holding on to her pencil as he was swinging on her desk and he cracked it. And he broke it in half. And so, they blamed it on me.
I was always being the one to get blamed for something and I would be nowhere near it. And so, because of my reputation, they just automatically assumed it was me. And it’s always been like that. And so, they blamed it on me. And the teacher believed them, because I was already “terrible.” And so she believed them. I was begging her. I was crying. I remember because I was so hurt. ‘Cause I knew I didn’t do it. I knew that and I kept telling her. I said, “I did not do that. I didn’t do it.” And eventually I just gave up…I just took it, because she wouldn’t believe me anyways. I just said, okay, I did it. But I know in my heart—I am 27 years old. (laughs) I can remember. Sometimes I think about it like man, I didn’t do that. And I just did not do that.
And so…it’s just always been like that. They knew me from middle school…by the time I went to Creston, they knew me. And my siblings, my oldest sibling is three years older than me. She was already in high school by the time I got to middle school. And so when I got to middle school she was in high school. And so, they just knew me. (laughs) By the time I went to middle school to high school…they be, “Oh, man.” Like they didn’t even give me a chance, you know, to even like, hey, I’m a different person or whatever.
JB: I wonder about that, when you said that your reputation preceded you—the way they acted. So, one of the things you gave me a good example of: They assumed when something went wrong, you had something to do with it. They were kind of assuming, “Must be Melita.” And when you went to middle school, where did you go?
I went to Creston. We moved. That’s German Church, like—
JB: Oh, that’s East. I’m a sad person. I get my east and west mixed up. You had told me Warren, but my head was still out west. So, Creston [in Warren Township]. You had been living in the city, going to 60—that’s more like third grade. Did you go 96, 60, 96 again?
No, 96, then 60.
JB: Where was Callahan?
Callahan was 96. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: Okay, then I got the years wrong. 96 was more like your early elementary years. That’s why her name came to you when we first started talking. So, third grade you were at 60.
I think it was third, fourth and fifth at 60.
JB: And then…around that the time you went to middle school there’s a family move to [East Side]. Your sister had already gone there.
I think she went to 108 [Gambold on the West Side.]
JB: When you went to Creston Middle School what was that like?
It was like the same thing, like I was in trouble all the time.
JB: Did you still feel like—you said this earlier, I don’t want to put words in your mouth—like there was the “good-behaving” you and the “bad-behaving” you. Were there still two you’s?
Yeah. (laughs) It was still two me’s.
JB: What was the good you? What were you interesting in, what made you want to “behave”? or what kind of behaving did you want to do?
I wanted to do what they asked, like sit still, be quiet, raise your hand when you have a question. You know, like all of the basics and routine stuff. I wanted to. And sometimes—now that I’m older, that was just me, like that was my personality. Even now, I can’t take positions where I’m sitting still all day. Like I have to be up walking around doing something or...‘Cause I’m a people person. That’s just what I do. I feel like that was just my personality, looking back. But of course my personality didn’t match what it is that they wanted. So…
JB: The classroom dynamic. You were supposed to be chatting…
And then, now that I’m older…it’s just that a lot of stuff wasn’t engaging. It didn’t keep, not even just my attention but it just didn’t keep me feeling like I am a part of the classroom. I felt like sometimes that…like sometimes when they gave me stuff to do, like pass out papers or do something, I felt like I was a part of the classroom. I was doing something. I felt like I succeeded at those things well. But when it came to the other stuff, like “sit down, be quiet.” And lecture. It’s like, “Oh, God.” I got bored.
JB: Classroom could mean lecturing, the teachers telling you information. You need to sit and listen. And that just did not work.
Plus I didn’t retain the information. I didn’t retain it anyways, ‘cause I’m sitting here listening to you and you’re going on and on and on, but I learned—not a week ago—that I learn [by] doing. And so I felt like I always had to do something.
JB: Did you say that you just learned this recently?
I learned recently that I’m a kinesthetic learner and so, if I would have known that when I was younger—or the teachers would have known that—I would know a lot more now than I do.
JB: The system didn’t work for you.
It didn’t. It’s just like…yeah. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: That’s a long time to be doing something and it’s not working for you.
Yeah. It’s a long time.
JB: All those elementary and now into middle school. Is anything different about middle school or that you wanted to…a vivid memory or important…
No. I got kicked out my seventh grade year and I went to 72. I went to Emma Donnan. I went to 72 for a whole year. And so, I went to seventh to eighth grade.
When you got kicked out, you were at Creston? [yeah] ‘Cause they’re in two different school districts. That’s interesting to me. I don’t know how it works. They literally kicked you out. It wasn’t, “We’re suspending you for a few days.” It was: You’re out of the building. We can’t have you here.
Yeah.
JB: How then did you get into Emma Donnan--if you’re kicked out of one school, how do you get into another?
I got sent over to Emma Donnan, ‘cause I wanted to go live with my grandmother. And so, I finally got to live with her. And that was tragic. I went to go live with her. [pause] yeah, so I went to 72. 72 was terrible. It was terrible. It was just like…like the kids was everywhere at 72. It was a lot different from Creston. The kids were just able to do whatever they wanted to, like run in the halls, selling candy, throwing paper in the classroom. I got in trouble so much at Emma Donnan, it was ridiculous. But I went to in-school suspension, the man there was teaching me how to play chess in in-school suspension. That was pretty cool. I love chess. And I’m still working on learning now. However, I don’t have the time. I loved it. That was my first introduction to chess. And I absolutely love chess. I absolutely love it. It was amazing.
JB: What do you love about chess? To me, chess is a mystery, just a complete mystery.
What do I love about it? It’s challenging. And it’s also like strategic. It’s strategizing. It’s like, if this don’t work, then what? I just like…I even do critical thinking puzzles, stuff like that, on my own. I just like thinking, critically. I think that’s what I like about it. And it’s a game. You know, the best of both worlds to me.
JB: do you like other games, too?
I like chess. I like Monopoly. I like Candyland for the kids. (laughs)
JB: I think, there are—like I’m not a very good game person. I admire people who play chess, because to me, it takes a brain that I don’t have. That’s why I ask. I forgot to ask you: What gets a person kicked out of Creston?
I kept getting referrals after referrals. I got to the point where like each referral I brought down would be like two days. And then each referral, I got another one. It would be three days. It would just keep adding up.
JB: So a referral means…you’re referred to go downstairs, out of the classroom.
Yeah.
JB: Is that basically in-school suspension, too? Or do they refer you home?
They just refer me to the office. That got me home or it got me afterschool detention or it had got me in-school suspension. But had Creston, they didn’t do in-school suspension. It was either suspension or afterschool detention. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: Suspension means staying home for a while. [yes] What would get you a referral?
What I would do in the classroom, like if I was talking and I wasn’t supposed to, if I was playing and I wasn’t supposed to. Like playing with other people, not sitting in my seat. What else? Just doing a whole bunch of random stuff that got me sent down. But at Creston, they didn’t give you chance after chance.
JB: How long did it take?
It took like one time. (laughs)
JB: So you’d get referred and referred. Were you kicked out by the middle of the year? The end?
I think it was the middle of the year. It could have been like the beginning. ‘Cause I went to Emma Donnan the whole seventh grade, so it had to have been like the beginning of the seventh grade, or something like that.
JB: I may be very naïve, but it sounds very weird that a school could kick you out for doing anything less than….I think it’s interesting.
That’s why I say, like the sixth grade and the seventh grade. The sixth grade, they just knew me. Like I was always down in the office. I was always…I had a good rapport with the guy, Mr. R, who suspended you. And so he knew me. I was always down there. Always. And so, by seventh grade, it was a wrap. It was like, “Yeah. We’re not doing this.” And so…
JB: How did you get classwork done? Did you get any classwork done?
No.
JB: You’re eyebrows are raising at me like, What?
No. (laughs)
JB: If you’re kicked out---and this is the other thing: We’re there any ways they tried to figure out, Why won’t Melita…What is not working for Melita here? Is what I want to say. Is there a point at which somebody refers you to counseling? Is there something?
No. Not in middle school. But like, I believe, I was at school 60 and I think they referred for me to talk to a counselor, or whatever. But I remember going to like one session in her office, I think. That was it. From that time on up, it was nothing.
JB: Do you understand that I’m asking, because this doesn’t seem like it’s working for you either?
Yeah.
JB: I would wish as a parent that there would be help; what would work for you? But you don’t recall any attempts to find out what would work for Melita.
No. The only thing they did in elementary; they did, they tried, they put me on Ritalin. But…I think I remember being like…I was calm. But I was still me. Like, it didn’t take parts away from me. And I think honestly, I did that because my sister was on Ritalin. But I just really wanted to take it just to see.
JB: It didn’t make a difference in how you felt, being in the classroom and doing what was asked of you. Did it help you do what was asked of you? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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I mean, it did in a way, because it does what the medicine does, which is make people calm. And turn them into zombies and all of that. I just don’t understand that whole medicine thing. But…it makes you do it, because that’s what it makes you feel. You can’t do anything else, because you feel like you’re…not even tired. You’re just there. Like, you’re almost in a trance, almost. Because you’re just like, “Uh.”
JB: Were you able to listen to a teacher like lecturing you? Could you listen better or were you just quieter?
I was just quieter. (laughs) I still wasn’t paying no more attention than I was…the day before. I was just quieter.
JB: How did it come to be that you were on Ritalin? Was it a teacher? Or did your mom say, “Oh, your sister is on it; maybe you need it”?
If I could remember I think it was my mom. Just because what she was hearing from the teachers. She was thinking that maybe—we did talk to my doctor, ‘cause we had the same doctor since we were born, and so--all the way up ‘til we were 18. So she talked to her. And so, she was just like, “Oh, yeah. We’ll try her out.” And so, I was on it. It just made you feel like you were just existing, like nothing to contribute to the classroom. You were just there. As long as you were quiet, you know, had all this good mentality: Kids should be seen and not heard. And so, as long as you were seeing and you had all your fingers and all your toes, all your limbs were functioning, at least externally, properly, then you fine. So.
JB: Did you stay on it?
I just stopped taking it. After a while. I think after that year. I don’t remember being on it longer than that.
JB: Something…I think I mentioned at the beginning, I usually ask about family and how they related to school. Sometimes it can be, they related by…some of these difficulties bring the parent in for meetings. It can be volunteering. It can be a strong relationship of some kind. What would you say—is it your mom that’s the primary caretaker? What was her relationship to your schools?
She never really volunteered. Like the teachers knew that if they called her, then something would be done. Like, she had that relationship with them.
JB: yeah, she would respond to them.
To the issue. Other than that, that was it, ‘cause she always had either two or three jobs. So, she was never there physically.
JB: I can appreciate that. May I ask what your mom did?
She was a CNA. [Certified Nurse Assistant] That’s what she did.
JB: when she had two to three jobs, was that all as a Certified Nurse Assistant?
Yeah. Different places. Like she would do private duty and then she would go to the nursing home, like she would work at the nursing home, but also do private duty on the side.
JB: That’s a lot of hours, sounds like. I know you said you moved a lot; did you have a sense of community at your schools?
Nmm nmm [no]. It was nothing like that at our schools. No. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: There was no way that I’m a part of…I think you said that one time, sometimes you feel a part of something. I think that’s what community means. You feel like your school’s a part of something.
No, it was just go to school, go home.
JB: How did it go for you…I didn’t ask you this: your mom, did she ever express what she wanted for you…from your education? Two things I look at is: What did she want for your education? And what did she expect of you at school? One is, what are they going to do for you and the other is what did she want you to do at school?
The first that comes to my mind with that question is, she just wanted us to graduate. And that was it. That was it. It was nothing else, no type of knowledge to be acquired or anything like that. She just wanted us to graduate.
JB: There wasn’t a certain mission she had, like This is why we go to school.
Yeah.
JB: It was: We go to school and you have to graduate.
Graduate. That’s it. So, what she expected from us is not to get any phone calls and for her not to have to leaver her job. For us to act like we’ve got some sense. That’s all she would say.
JB: I’d love to hear how it went in high school. And anything else you remember.
High school was about the same.
JB: By the way, Emma Donnan, you were living with your grandma. Did you stay there for eighth grade.
No, I went back to Creston. I went back to Creston in eighth grade. And thank God. Somehow or another, they lost my record in between seventh grade and eighth grade. Because when I went back to eighth grade at Creston, they tried to put me back in seventh grade, but I was already a year behind. That was the problem, too. I re-did first grade, because of the fact that they said I was a low reader. And so, I re-did first grade. That could be the mix-up right there. So, they tried to hold me back in seventh grade, but they couldn’t do it, because they couldn’t find my folder, my file, so they had to put me in my right grade, which was eighth grade. And so, that’s how I ended up in eighth grade.
JB: I think you said that was a good thing.
That was a good thing.
JB: Because.
It was a good thing they lost my file.
JB: So you could stay in your grade. How was eighth grade?
Eighth grade…what did I do in eighth grade? It was okay. I think I began…no, I didn’t in eighth grade. Eighth grade was just the same. I calmed down a lot, like I changed a lot, because I went to Emma Donnan and I seen that…I started to appreciate Creston because of the fact that I went to Emma Donnan and the kids were wild. They weren’t learning anything, like the teacher couldn’t say anything. Like, they were just existing in the classroom and they weren’t learning anything. They just roamed the hallways all the time. So, when I went back to Creston, I’m just like, “I should appreciate this.” And so, it was a drastic change. It was a huge difference. And so, when I went back it was totally different for me. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: I’m guessing that changed your behavior. [yes] In what ways?
It changed me, because like I wasn’t doing a lot like I used to…like I was. I wasn’t talking and laying and all of that. It changed me in that way. Because I did not want to go back to Emma Donnan. Because it was terrible. Because I was going to Creston in sixth grade; it was such a difference as far as the behavior of the kids, and even the teachers…acting like they care and stuff like that.
JB: So even the teachers seemed different at Creston compared to Emma Donnan.
Yeah. It’s just like the teachers at Emma Donnan seemed like they were so overwhelmed and I’m quite sure they was now that I’m a teacher. (laughs) I mean, there was just a lot going on. The teachers couldn’t even instruct or give lessons ever. Because they was too busy trying to deal with their behavior. And so…It was terrible at Emma Donnan.
JB: I wonder how the class work or learning went, because there had been so many suspensions and changes, then Emma Donnan just sounds like a lost year. In eighth grade, are you doing work?
I was doing work. I believe I was doing average. I’ve always been an average student. I was doing like C work. But to me, I just say, “Hey, C is passing.” (laughs) Like I always built that mentality, like as long as I’m passing and just doing enough, I’m good.
JB: That was a real change for you. When it was time to go to high school I wonder how you know where to go next. Are you living in a township, so you go to that high school? Or is there a choice?
No there’s not a choice. Once we left Creston, we just knew that we were going to Warren [High School]. And so, like I went to Warren and Warren was…it was a huge difference for me, like a drastic change. But…I guess because the building was bigger and then you had a lot more teachers. And then, you had a lot more students. My first year, it was me. It was all of us together at Creston.
JB: The family? [yes] The older sister and the brother?
Yeah. And so, all of us there. That was pretty cool, ‘cause we got to go to school together.
JB: Was there a bus to take you?
Yeah, the bus.
JB: How did you handle the bigness? You mentioned how big it was and how different it was. I'm wondering what the impact is on you. How are you doing at Warren?
I mention the size, because I’m more of an intimate type person. And so, it’s just like…at Creston, that’s where I got the whole community feel, was at Creston. Because I was able to really connect with my teachers and like when I first started writing poetry, I showed my teacher—the one teacher that didn’t like me at all and I didn’t like her. Mrs. Culpepper. But she was my English teacher. I fell in love with Mrs. Culpepper. She fell in love with me and she seen the person that I was trying to be, but just couldn’t get there. And she kind of fostered that person. She kind of motivated me to be that person.
JB: How did you come to share your poetry with her? Was it for school?
No, I just wrote a poem.
JB: had you been writing poetry before that? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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No, that was my first one and I shared it with her. It came to be because, like my sister, she journaled a lot. And so, I just started ‘cause I’m the youngest. Monkey see, monkey do. And so I just started to journal with her. And then she said something one day about poetry. Then like she was saying she wrote a poem or whatever. I was listening to her, so then I tried it out. I wrote my first poem called “Tears.” And I went to my teacher Mrs. Culpepper and showed her the poem. And I let her listen to it. It was just like maybe six or seven lines of poetry. But she seen like more than just my poetry, you know, than what I put on words, what I put on paper. And so, she began to foster that part of me that I didn’t show but to her. Just to show it to her—and I didn’t like her- and she didn’t like me, it was just…I still don’t even know to this day why I did it, but I’m glad that I did. Now, Mrs. Culpepper, I had a show, my first feature ever, and she came out. I was able to find her, called the school that she worked…she worked at Holy Angels. And so, she retired from there…she went to church there. I just kind of did, you know, my whole little investigating.
JB: What was your first show?
It was at this place called All That Jazz Kitchen and Café.
JB: Spoken Word?
Yeah, spoken word and I was the feature of the show. And so, I was asked. But yeah, ‘cause I wanted her to come out, because I wanted to pay homage to her because it was because of her I became on this journey. And I’m still on it, obviously. Yeah, so…ever since then…like life began to brighten. I was still bad, but (laughs)…
JB: It doesn’t always click all…it’s not a sharp right turn. So, that’s where you started to feel some community. And Mrs. Culpepper, even though you didn’t like each other, you opened up and shared poetry and she responded by letting you know, this is you. Any sense of this that continued through the year?
I believe that was in my eighth grade year and like I was able to dance, like I did a liturgical dance at my eighth grade dance. It was an eighth grade school dance and I talked to the lady who puts together the dance and I asked her, could I dance at our thing and so I did a gospel pantomime to Yolanda Adams’ “Open My Heart.” And so, I did that. It was at our dance. So they stopped the music. Everybody was dressed up and everything. So they stopped the music and I was in full attire and I danced to the music [?].
JB: How was that received?
Very well. And like everybody, “Oh, I didn’t know you could do that! I didn’t know.”
JB: When did you start dancing?
I had to be like in sixth grade. Like I would just do different stuff in my room, ‘cause I was always in there.
JB: You were telling me you were kinesthetic. So, you started dancing in your room, you said.
And dancing in…my grandmother had her own church. She was a minister and still is. And so, for 10 years. We used to dance down at the church, you know, the youth performances. But mainly, I did it on my own, in my room. And then I played the saxophone, sixth through eighth grade, but I missed a year when I went to Emma Donnan. So I played the sax in the band. I wish I had kept up with it. I would have been really good.
JB: The band was at Creston? [yes] Was it like an afterschool thing or a class?
It was a class. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: So these are other parts of yourself besides all the negative stuff you felt around school, or negative behaviors—what was perceived as negative. There’s music and then the dance. You shared that with your school. They didn’t ask you, it wasn’t that they taught you in any way, but you shared it with them at the dance. And you learned that yourself. Did anybody teach you at the church or was church the place to perform?
Church was the place to perform. I taught myself and I don’t even know the first time I seen it. But I taught myself. And so…yeah.
JB: Did any of those seeds that were being planted [press in] when you went to Warren [High School]? I know you said it wasn’t perfect right away. Did some of those changes keep coming at Warren?
Yeah, they kept coming at Warren. I had my major ups and downs at Warren. But the water kept going over the seed and kept watering the seed that was within me. ‘cause that flower, I’m telling you, was bound to spring forth. It took a while. It wasn’t until I…Miss Baylan, who was my English teacher at Warren, I believe she was either my freshman or sophomore, but she kind of like kept me out a lot. ‘Cause I would stay after school sometimes with her in her class. We would just talk and talk and talk and talk. She would give me these expensive chocolates that she would have. And so, like we would just talk. That was helpful for me gaining knowledge just about life, in general. Just having somebody that took that time, you know. And I think that’s the only thing I really needed was somebody just to give me their time, like, alone. You know? And so, that helped a lot. It became like…about the time my junior year came, I was coming into like a person that was a for real class clown, but I know how to turn it off. Like when it’s time to work. You know? So, I was going into that my end of my sophomore, beginning of my junior year, because I knew the type of person that I was becoming and the type of person that I wanted people to remember me as. And so, I did not want to like flunk out of school or anything like that. Because I knew school was my…by the time I got to high school, school was my safe haven. I just wanted to get away from everything that was going on at home and so, I just knew that if I messed up school, where would I go? You know? Yeah. That’s kind of where that went into.
But then like I started to perform, like I started going to public performance poetry. I started to perform, so a lot of people started to know me by that. And so, my junior year, I wrote a poem called, “Are You Listening?”, that has been number one since I wrote it, so that’s how a lot of people remember me. And so, then like, I performed it at my school, through a talent show. I was in a lot of talent shows that they had there. A lot of people started to see me differently. “That’s that poet. She did good.” And all of that. Mr. Burchette, the day that I was suspended or the day I was supposed to get suspended or something like that, from Warren. He actually…I was in the office, but he called me to his office and the main principal, Mr. Burchette, he bought me a ticket to Maya Angelou, that performed at Clowes Hall. And so, he bought me the ticket. It was expensive, but me and my mother were trying to figure out how we were going to pay for it. And so, he took me. He’s like, “Melita, I’m giving you this ticket.” And he printed it off at TicketMaster. And so, I was able to go and see Maya Angelou and it was amazing. So, actually she’s coming here this Tuesday and I’m going to that. But anyway, so it was, ahhh. That was the best thing in the world. I felt like I won a million dollars. And so I went to see her. And like the ticket, the backstage, it was a VIP or whatever. I seen one of my old friends at Clowes Hall that I haven’t seen in years and he was just like, “I don’t have a ticket to go back here.” I said, “I do.” I didn’t even know if I had the ticket for real. Like I don’t know if he bought me a VIP ticket. It wasn’t. It was just a regular ticket. I said, “Man, I’m getting in there. I don’t care what you say.” He said, “But you don’t have the ticket.” I said, “I do have the ticket.” And so, I just went back…there was a lady with like a bar code thing and she scanned my ticket and it dinged. And I went right in. I said, “I told you I had that ticket.” And so I was able to go back and talk to her and meet her. I think that was a life-changing experience for me.
JB: What did it mean to meet her? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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It…[she lets out a breath with a “huh”] It meant the world. Like it was like—I hate to say—it was like meeting Jesus. It was not like that, but it was just like—huhh—it was amazing. It was relief... like, to see somebody that…I’ve read her books, I’ve read her poems, like kind of almost like stalked her a little bit via the internet. (laughs) You know. It was…I don’t know…even know to even answer that. I’m speechless. Words can’t explain how I really felt to be back there. Like, “Oh, man. I deserve this. I’ve been through so much.” Like I wrote her a letter. I was able to give her my letter…and stuff and so.
Those were those experiences like through high school. I was really sad, because Mrs. Woodgrim, she didn’t like me. I was the class clown in her class, I know. But I always did my work. She always had to talk to me. This was my senior year English teacher and she always had to talk to me. She always sent me out of the classroom. She said I broke—here’s another thing. She said I broke the glass in the door, but…you know, that glass that's inside the doors in the classrooms? But I told her, “I didn’t break that glass.” You know, somebody would have to really hit that glass with force. And I told her I didn’t do it. But she swears up and down I did it. I said, “Mrs. Woodgrim, I didn’t do that to that door.” This is exactly what I said. But she writes me up, so I go down to the office and they said that I broke the door, whatever. I didn’t have to pay for it, whatever, but I did get in-school—I always hate in-school suspension. But I did in-school suspension for several days.
JB: In-school suspension means you don’t go to class.
Right, you just sit in this room.
JB: And you really hated it because…
Nobody to talk to. (laughs) But then I do like my quiet time, too, because I’m able to work on poetry. I’m able to think by myself--but long periods of that? It’s boring. It’s a long time. It was days. So, it was prison. That’s how I know I could never go to prison, ‘cause in-school suspension, I couldn’t do that. And so, I had in-school suspension, she really didn’t like me and so when I really…everybody knew that I could speak, everybody knew that I did performance poetry and like that and so I wanted to speak for our senior commencement. And so, I wanted to speak for our senior commencement. And they had try-outs and I was the only one--and I was the only one. It was like me and three other people, but they were like on student council and stuff like that. I never went for student council because one) my grades were always average and they always wanted people to be like three point oh and above and all of that. I’m just like, “Yeah, I’m never going to get into student council.” But I always wanted to do student council, but I never could do it. And so, we did the whole commencement thing and I didn’t get it. And my speech, I know by far was the best speech out of everybody that tried out. Even teachers told me, after I was done—it was teachers that came up to me and told me that my speech was the best one. And the reason why I didn’t get it was because Woodgrim didn’t want me to have it. She fought for me not to get the commencement speech. I said, “Man, ain’t that about something?” But then, that also made me like keep in my mind that your reputation is going always to be before you, but also like…your past does kind of hold you back from what it is you want to do. So, that’s what kind of me keep—like okay, I’m not going to ever go to jail ‘cause then I’m not ever going to be able to get a good job and stuff like that. So, it’s just like, whenever I want to do something, I can’t, because of my background, you know. That kind of helped me a lot. It was a lesson learned. However, I know that my speech was the best speech. However, I’m grateful because I did learn a lesson from that. Also, one door shut, you know, several open, you know. So I was able to go back--what’s this? Thirteen--last year and I spoke at Warren, at my alma mater, and I was able to speak for the Black Expo, Miss Indiana Teen Pageant. And so I was able to speak there. It was just…It’s been…everything’s been a full circle. I’m just like, huh, you know.
JB: I want to ask two things before I lose them. I wonder where you got to perform. I remember that you discovered poetry with your sister’s example and you had that teacher that encouraged you. I’m hoping that in Melita C: Warren 2006?
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high school you also had exposure. Did classes expose you to more poetry or are you continuing this journey on your own, outside of school?
Out of school.
JB: Is school fostering it at all.
No, not really. Only thing…I’m just going to say no. Not in school at all. It was more outside.
JB: I really wonder, “How?” There’s you, all by yourself. You can write. How are you connecting with these places to perform?
I just went out, not really seeking at all. Opportunities just begin to come my way. Like they were just, people would call me and ask would I perform here and every place I perform like another opportunity came and after I’d perform there, another opportunity. Like it just…
JB: You told me that poem, it was your number one poem.
“Are You Listening?”
JB: How did that become number one? Number one in your repertoire or in some other way? Your favorite?
It’s not necessarily my favorite, but it’s people’s favorite.
JB: When you perform. So, who would invite you to perform? A student, a coffeeshop? Somebody invites you?
Somebody invites me, like who has community events. And so, like large community events, they would come and ask me.
JB: Like…an example of a community event. Black Expo’s really big. You probably didn’t start with that first.
No, I didn’t; it kind of led up to that. Where did I go? I’m trying to remember the first. There’s been so many. Like the Youth Leadership Initiative Camp with United Way.
JB: So, they knew you through somebody else?
Yeah. I went through…after I graduated high school, I went through… I went to school and I came back, because my back went out. But I just couldn’t sit and not do anything, so I went through the Urban League Program downtown and so I spoke through…anytime they asked us to do an assignment, I would do a poetry piece. And so when like I did a poetry piece, they knew I could do more, just from that poetry piece. And so, I would perform. So, from my performance, they were just like, “Okay, I want you to come and speak at our event.” So, I spoke for the Urban League. Then one of our teachers, who came meaning to do instruction with us about leadership or whatever, she sits on the United Way; she’s a director of the Youth as Resources grant through United Way. And so, she asked me to come and speak for the youth. It was just like..it kept going on from there.
JB: You were also performing out in high school.
Yes. More in high school it’s more at churches and community events and stuff like that. I didn’t really get up until like in the [?] until later. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: I wanted to know…part of it is that I wish, personally, that high school had done some of the helping you along. But it sounds like you were recognized in another sphere, outside of high school. but it seemed to support you through high school, because you found this part of yourself.
Yeah.
JB: I also wondered why you wanted to be in student council, what they did that you thought you’d like to do.
It just always seemed like they got to do stuff, like they got to do more, like the teachers respected them. I guess that was it too. Teachers respected them and put them…it always seemed like we were down—like I was and people on my level were down here and they were up here. They got to do all type of stuff and I just couldn’t figure out how to get on that committee. Like what did I have to do? I never knew what I had to do.
JB: Did they get to make decisions of any kind?
Yeah. They got to make decisions.
JB: I always wonder about student council; did they get to throw pep rallies or are they actually sitting around making decisions, voting for something.
That’s what they did. Now that I’m older, I feel like now I understood what they were doing. They were like making decisions about, like what are we going to do for Wacky Day, like Spirit Week, like dances and stuff. They actually were running like the school pretty much. But you had to be, like I said, 3.3 all of that. But I really wanted to be on it. I just couldn’t figure out how to get there, like and stay there. (laughs)
JB: Thank you. I always think, I wonder what they do and you cared about it. How did you transition out of high school? Did you know what you were doing next?
Not really. Like sixth through eighth grade, I was with 21st Century Scholars and so they did a lot of programs with IUPUI, so downtown and stuff. I was always recruited for stuff.
JB: So you would go…were you learning about colleges because you were a 21st Century Scholar?
Yeah. And so I was learning. I didn’t really know. I had an idea, like I thought I wanted to be a social worker, go to Ball State and that was it. I always wanted to be a foster parent. Other than that…that was it. Then after I got out of school, I’m just like, “Mmm, maybe not.” I didn’t go to Ball State because I didn’t get my 21st Century Scholarship, ‘cause when I graduated high school—I told you now—I was bad and I really wasn’t paying attention. So, I graduated from high school with a 1.9. So, you needed a 2.0 to get your scholarship. And so, I was close. If I probably would have gotten a B somewhere, I probably would have had it. But, yeah. SO, I didn’t get my 21st century scholarship. So I just thought, okay, I didn’t have any money and all of that. I ended up making a decision at the last minute and going to Vincennes. And I went with my brother, ‘cause that’s where my brother was going. I just really wanted to get out of the house. So, but like my whole plan and social work went down the drain. And so, I went down there and came back home; that’s how I get linked up with the Urban League.
JB: You hurt your back?
I hurt my back down there. In Vincennes, they had like a little bonfire thing. I went. Like you could sledge hammer the…car. And so, when I was in like third grade, third or fourth grade—it was at School 60—I was diagnosed with scoliosis. And so, it was my first time doing it and I threw my back out. And so, I had to come home, because Vincennes didn’t have the stuff to transport me to class. And so, on campus. I had to withdraw. I Melita C: Warren 2006?
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had just got down in August and I came back in October. And so, I was out. And I came back and went through the program at the urban league.
JB: Is that some kind of a tradition, bashing cars?
Yeah, like what they do at the bonfire. It was a Christian bonfire. They had one where you could smash the car. It was just for fun.
JB: I can picture it, but I’ve never done it. It was a youth fun thing, not a way to get into trouble. Now, what is the Urban League? [I meant: What is the urban league program mentioned earlier?]
The program was like..it was a job readiness program. They taught you like your resume. They gave you a stipend while you were in class. Like, they found jobs, showed you how to look for jobs on a computer. It was like a six-week intensive course, like you had to be there Monday through Thursday. You couldn’t be late, and all of that. I went through that, because my sister went through it, too. She was the first one that went and that’s how I found out about it. I went through it and I completed it. And then I went through their GRADES [If I heard Melita right, she means Group for Renewal, Accountability and Development of Excellence in Schools] program and stuff like that. And so, I did a lot through the Urban League. That’s how…see, it was through that program that I found my AmeriCorps position. Like where I was doing the AmeriCorps. And I’m glad that I found AmeriCorps, but…
JB: Can you tell me about AmeriCorps?
AmeriCorps national service program is like where pretty much as much as you make, you are volunteering your time. (laughs) You just enroll in the program like you’re going to enroll in one of the service programs.
JB: Okay, like one of the armed forces.
Yeah, armed services.
JB: You get paid in some way?
You do, but it averages out to about three dollars an hour.
JB: Like a writer, I get it.
(laughs) So you might as well say you volunteer. But it was a really, really good experience. And so, but it’s a lot of programs under AmeriCorps because anybody can create a nonprofit and enlist AmeriCorps money. And so then your program would be under AmeriCorps, and so then you can go out and hire people to work for you in your program. Anybody can be an AmeriCorps-funded program.
JB: And get people like you to work for them.
…under their cause. But you can only do AmeriCorps two years. You can only get the American Seal Education Grant. ‘Cause you do get, after your two years—one year of full-time service, you get almost $6,000 towards education. So, I did two years and so…I just had to log on today to figure out what I can do. And you only got seven years to spend your money. And I think I’ve still got $7,000 left and this is my seventh year, so I need to figure out what I’m going to do.
JB: So you haven’t gone back to school yet. But there’s this money that would enable you. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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I’m in school now, attending the University of Indianapolis. I’m doing the bachelor’s of organizational leadership. I think I’m going to go ahead and do the minor, which is only like two more classes than what I’m already doing. And so, it’s a minor of business admin. I think I’m just going to go ahead and do it, get the minor.
JB: What would you like to do with the degree?
My goal is that I’d like to have my own nonprofit which would be working with inner-city youth to take them global. That is my goal. That’s my whole…
JB: Take them global in what way?
Take them to different countries. Like I want to take them…anywhere they desire. However, they will have to do a whole year working with me, learning how to fundraise, learning how to volunteer within your own community first. Like, they would have to volunteer throughout the city for a year. And so, we would all link up and go to this one particular place. Of course, I’ll have it all set up. They will have to volunteer for a year. Grades. Behavior. Everything. And so, but…then we will work together, like do shows, do things throughout the year, so we can have money raised. Of course, I’ll do the back-end fundraising, but they will work, too. Just to show them, you know, just how to fundraise and how to be steadfast positively to reach a goal. You know? That would be the whole focus on that. I kind of spoke to Mr. Woodridge, where I’m substituting, about starting it at Arlington. But we will see. (laughs) I would like to get a jumpstart just to work out the kinks. Like I said, we will see.
JB: Do you need a break? ‘cause I’d like to ask you about substitute teaching. [we pause] Before we talk about substitute teaching: I like to ask people, when they look back on their education, how do they think it served them?
[pauses 30 seconds] That’s a good question, because…I’m thinking about it and I’m thinking like, education would have served me well, if I was paying attention. But since I wasn’t, it’s kind of my fault that it didn’t serve me well. Because there’s a lot of things I don’t know, when it comes to education-wise. I have knowledge because…I guess, more like street knowledge, picked up along the way. I don’t think that…there was something else I was thinking…then I was thinking out if they had figured out how I learned, like the best ways that I learn. You know? Then maybe I would have learned a lot more than I know now, you know? ‘cause I was sitting in my class at University of Indianapolis and I was just thinking, like, the way that she teaches the math—and I’m just getting it like that [clicks]. All my life I felt…I dreaded this math class at U of I. And I said, I do not…I tried to figure every way possible to get out of this math class and I couldn’t. But they said, like, “Melita, you have to take this math.” But I said, “you all just don’t understand.” And they was like, “Oh, no, you’ll be fine, you’ll be fine.” But she teaches it in all the different ways that everybody learns. Like we do a lot of the hands on. We do a lot of hands on, it makes you feel like you’re in elementary, because of the fact that you feel like, “Oh, we should have done…we don’t do this in college.”
JB: Can you give me an example?
The other day, we used toothpicks. She gave us physical toothpicks, because one of the questions was how can you make a box out of these nine toothpicks. They’re will set up in three one-inch--six …so, you had to move them to make three boxes. Normally you would have just had to look at a paper and keep scratching off, re-doing the boxes over and over and keep scratching off, but she actually gave us the physical toothpicks and we could build the boxes and then take them away, and then re-build them, take them away. And so, but…and then she gave us…when we were working on intersections and stuff like that, she gave us all these different shapes that had three different colors in them, three sets of colors, of shapes. And so, if A and B was intersected, you would need a yellow triangle with a red triangle and so because they were the same shapes that were in two Melita C: Warren 2006?
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separate size--I’m able to explain to you because I did it. I took finite math at Vincennes University and the same thing we were working on in class, I didn’t get it, ‘cause the only thing I had was a book and a sheet of paper. And I wasn’t really being taught...like if I was to physically do it, put something in these two, then I will be able to get it. At Vincennes, I ended up dropping the class, ‘cause I just could not get it. (laughs) Like my brain was not getting it. But now at U of I we’re learning the same things, but I’m getting it because we’re actually using things--taking things away, putting them in. We’re actually coloring—what is this, what is that like? It’s just different and I just think that education has served me well in certain areas. But I just feel like it’s my experiences with education that didn’t serve me. I think I’m asking your questions right.
JB: Yeah. Part of it has to do with, are you taking what people are giving? But another part is are they giving it in a way that you can take it? Can you comprehend it? Picking up the toothpicks, I would not have thought how different that was. But it is. To pick it up rather than do it with lines [on the page]. I bet you’re thinking a lot about education as you’re substituting. How did you start becoming a substitute? Is this a new experience?
Subbing for this district is, but I subbed—it was last year, the year before that—for Decatur. I subbed for Decatur Township for a semester. That was different. Even the kids are different, between districts.
JB: In Decatur, How would you describe that difference there?
I’m trying to find the right words. It’s different because, I guess they’re way of thinking is different. Because in Decatur the students are, they’re focus…I guess it’s more like the culture too, because it changes by district. Because at Arlington it’s this, it’s like…like pretty much like, “Get rich or die trying.” The kids, the mentality of them is just like, it’s the basic. Then over here at Decatur, it was just like the kids are more about school. And even if they’re playing, it’s a different type of play. It’s kind of hard for me to describe, but it’s like a different type of play at Decatur. Like if you say one thing to them [clicks], it was just like that immediately. But then over here, it just takes them so long just to get together. You constantly, constantly have to keep repeating yourself. Constantly, over and over. But in Decatur, it wasn’t even like that. You say one thing and they together.
JB: Like as a teacher giving instruction…to be honest, as a substitute are you carrying on the curriculum of the missing teacher?
Yeah.
JB: Are you there for one, two day or for weeks.
Sometimes it can be one day. Now, I’m at a two-week assignment at Arlington.
JB: Do you carry on their curriculum. I’m so curious. What are you doing?
Sometimes the teacher would leave like a folder. They would leave a substitute folder and say, okay, this is what we’re doing and would leave instructions. “They can’t leave the room. Please strictly enforce that.” They would leave specific instructions.
JB: So you know the rules of that classroom.
That’s exactly what I’m doing. Whatever they say to do, that’s exactly what I’m doing.
JB: You were saying, in Decatur, if you say something…might you say something like, “The teacher says you’re supposed to be working on chapter so and so. Everybody get out your books and read chapter so and so.”
Yeah. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: And then they…
Do it.
JB: And then what happens at a different school.
They would be like, “Man…” They try to pull it on you like, “Oh, we aint’ got to do that…” But ‘cause you don’t know really, you don’t know. The only thing you have to go by is this piece of paper she done left and it doesn’t say anything that they talking about. They be trying, like “Well, we ain’t got to do that “ and “I ain’t doing it.” All of that, and plus too they know that you can’t really, you can’t as a sub--you can write somebody up definitely if they’re being very, very disruptive and disrespectful, but they know that you really can’t, because you really don’t have that power as a teacher, like a main teacher, so they’re try to pull that what on you, too. They try to do all of what they can. You know, so they won’t have to do their work. It was just…and then at Decatur, you can engage in conversation, like after they done with their work. You can engage in like…life conversations, you know? Like ask them questions and just have a discussion.
JB: Like you said earlier, somebody said something and you didn’t know what that was. I don’t know if that was at Arlington or Decatur. You’re realizing that you’re 27, but you’re not in with the “youth” culture anymore. What was something that you didn’t know what it meant—or can you say?
(laughs) Like if somebody said…these kids say so much. (laughs) What do they say? Like one of the ways that stood out to me was the other day was when they was like…no, this morning. One of them said, “Right on.” And to me, that would have been…he said, “I’m about to use the telephone.” And he used the telephone. The class telephone. But instead of saying thank you, he said, “right on.” To me, I automatically knew, okay, that meant thank you. And because I said to him, because he didn’t ask, I said, “You’re welcome.” He said, “Right on, man.” I’m just like, okay, that means thank you. I’m not that far. Cause somebody else would have been, “Right on what?” (laughs) I automatically knew what that was. Thank you. I still, in my head thinking like back to old school, like you could have said thank you.
JB: As an instructor you might have said, “You know, you could have said thank you.” You knew he meant it.
Just by him saying right on. Man, substitute teaching is stressful. It’s stressing my entire life and like in this classroom, because we are there for the amount of the time of the assignment, the length of the assignment. And you see what you can contribute to make the room better, like to make the education better for them so they can really learn, you know? So, the whole dynamic of the room. And you can change it, but you’re only there for this short period of time, and so it’s just kind of like, you don’t want to sit and do nothing, because you see these are lives and time is passing and they’re not doing anything. But you don’t want to jump in and do something because they’re used to doing nothing. It’s just like, what are you doing? Even today, I’m just like, okay, I’ve been here a week. I’m just like….and it’s still the same thing going on.
JB: The same thing going on is the pushing back—“Oh, we don’t have to do that”—is that what you mean?
Yeah.
JB: And you’re thinking, this could be better for your life if you get this knowledge. Kind of like you said, knowledge you don’t have because you were there [pushing back against the teacher].
Yeah and It’s the same thing with them…like just sitting around and not doing anything all day for eight hours, except on their cell phones. On the computer. And they’re able to get away with this because of the fact that there’s nobody that’s coming in and telling them to do anything different. And so when I say, “Put your cell phones up,” they look at me like, “Man, Mr. B allow us to have our cell phones out.” So, then when I’m saying Melita C: Warren 2006?
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something that is different from what they’re used to, that’s when a lot of the pushback come. You know? And then I just feel like, leave your cell phone out, because who am I to tell you to put it up? You’re used to doing this. But then when somebody else comes into the room—could be another teacher, the main guy over the special education department, he come into the room, and he makes it look like that I’m not doing my job, because he or she has their cell phone out. But I’ve told them over and over again to put it up. It’s just like—and they keep saying, “Well, Mr. B says we can have it out.” So, they leave it out. I mean, who am I? to tell them to put it up?
JB: You’re in a tough situation, unless he or she has written down, the teacher had said, “No, cell phones, no leaving the room.” And even when it’s on the paper, they still find a way to push back.
Yeah. But even then, too, it’s like there is no permanent teacher for this room. There’s no real teacher. And so the teacher who’s in this room is a paraprofessional. And so, he don’t even know what he doing. And so, there’s no real teacher in this room. This is his second year in this position, working with these students, but he’s only there as the assistant. He’s not there as the main teacher.
JB: Is there a main teacher?
There is no permanent teacher. The permanent teacher they had quit. And he went to Washington Township. So there is no main teacher. And all this time is passing and they’re just sitting here.
JB: And you’re saying this is special education
It’s a special education class. And they’re just sitting here. There’s nobody to come—I finally seen the man today who came in. He got two students out, like one at a time. He pulled them out of the classroom. I don’t even know what he does, ‘cause I looked at his little thing like I have on him and it didn’t say what he does. It just says he was coming in as a visitor. And then he brought him back to a room and that was it. A lot of these students, I realized today, are on probation. A lot of them are on probation, so they just sit in this room. And they keep seeing---one of the guys even said out loud, “Well, Mr. B, he said this homework ain’t this. The work ain’t this. Like the work we’re doing ain’t this.” He’s like, “Mr. B, he said, this is BS. So we just sitting here until, until whenever we can get out of here.” ‘cause he gets out on November 26, he get off of probation. So, November 26.
JB: So, the teacher is telling him, the system, this whole class is just BS.
Yeah, like even the work. We’re just in here for behavior. Like he even said that. The dude said that. And the little boy even said last week—‘cause he’s from all over, Chicago, Milwaukee, Gary—and so, he was just like, “This is almost like Cook County in here.” ‘Cause he’s been to the Boys School. He’s just like, “Man, y’all, we’re sitting here like we’re in Cook County Detention Center.” He said, “We just sit in here. That’s what we used to do in Cook County. We just sit all day. We don’t even do nothing. We just sit.” That’s what we used to do in Cook County. They have work, but the thing is they can’t read. And so some of them can’t even add. And so they sitting in this room. And so when he gives them packets and packets of work and expects them to do it, but they can’t even read. They can’t even add. It took one little boy 20 minutes to get through something that looked like this. And he 19 years old and he’s a senior. And he does have some special disability, but he’s not even getting help with his disability.
JB: He has a disability, but he’s---I’m really confused, because it’s called special ed, but you’re also saying it’s a kind of probationary room.
Yep. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: So, it’s like they were doing something wrong, but are identified as special education and the person who is leading the class is not a special education teacher.
Right. They label them emotional disability, emotionally disabled because of the fact that they “can’t” [her quotes] be amongst their peers or whatever. They can’t control their emotions, so we just going to label them emotionally disabled. But that’s not…I just think all of that’s a bunch of BS. Because that’s based on my history. I would have been emotionally disabled.
JB: I wondered what you thought about it. I guess, I wonder the same thing, hearing your story. What could they have done differently to make it work for you? I’m not saying it’s easy, but putting them all in a room and having a paraprofessional…
And it’s not even…legally, what I’m learning about the teacher Mr. B and all of that. He said, I’m not even supposed to be in this room, because of the fact that I’m not a licensed teacher. And he said that’s against the law for them, to even let me be in this room and unlicensed. And they’re on a hiring freeze. So they’re not even trying to hire new teachers. He just told me today, before I left—that’s why I was a little late is ‘cause I was talking to him. He was saying that his cousins, two of his cousins interviewed for the teachers position and they didn’t get it. And he says now they’re on a hiring freeze.
JB: Is Mr. B the one—
That’s in the room.
JB: You talk to him…you’re substituting for him, I thought.
No, it’s supposed to be two teachers. It has to be two teachers at all times.
JB: Mr. B is present, but he is the lead teacher even though he isn’t a teacher.
Yeah. He’s the lead teacher. He didn’t even know until—‘cause he went to a funeral, his aunt’s funeral, last Thursday and Friday. So, I was in there by myself. And so, when he came back today I told him what Mrs. Woodford told me—she’s next door. I told him that she said there was a hiring freeze and that nobody else was coming in. ‘cause I wanted to see how I could stay in the school for the rest of the school year or whatever. He said, “What?!” I said, “Yeah, it’s a hiring freeze.” He said, “Oh, no. They going to have to give me more money. If I’m going to be in here like that.” So, he told the kids this evening, too, that he has an interview Wednesday in Bellwood, Illinois, and if he gets the position, he’s leaving. So, he told the kids that today, too. Now, you about to have a huge mess because: one, you all not hiring; two, nobody wants to work there. Nobody wants to work for EdPower.
JB: Why do you say that? I wonder why they don’t?
Because of the way EdPower is set up. And the way it is designed that they don’t want…what I’ve been hearing from other teachers is they don’t want to work with people. And like he was saying that the teacher that was there last year, he did really well, Mr. Andrews. And he showed the students’ progress and what he was doing that was working. But he needed a raise. He documented everything, like the successes and everything like that. They told him like, “Oh, we don’t do raises.” And so he quit and he went to Pike. Ed Power, they just don’t want to work with them. They even took out all the programs. There’s nothing in the school but gym and band. They done took out all the programs. There’s no home ec, there’s nothing.
JB: When you say no programs, okay, like home ec. That a long time ago was very traditional, but some buildings don’t have it. They’re bringing it back to Washington. When you say no programs, no afterschool programs? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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Yeah. There’s only like…of course, there’s your traditional, like track and all the sports and stuff like that.
JB: They have track?
I think they have track. I know that they have basketball, but like what Mr. B was telling me today—when I worked at Arlington from ’06 to ’08 during my two years of service, they had a lot going on. That’s when Dr. Greenwood was there. So, they had a lot going on, like people from the community can come in and volunteer. And there was a Christian organization—I can’t remember what they were called, but they used to be all into the school. They had a lot of stuff going on for the kids. And the community and stuff like that. Since EdPowers came in, can’t nobody come in no more. All the different programmers and programs that was in the afternoon, they don’t let nobody around. They’re not allowing anybody into these schools at all. And so that’s what Mr. B was telling me today. He was telling me about the program I already knew of, but telling me that this was around and now it’s not anymore. He said he believes they’re not letting them in because they don’t want them to see what is going on, which is one of the--which is this classroom, the emotionally handicapped classroom. Because they don’t want nobody to see what they’re doing. Like he called it…I’m guessing not just him, a lot of people are calling it “poverty pimping,” like where they hold these kids for so long and then in February they get the money and they just start kicking them out. He said that’s what they do every year. They hold them and then kick them out. And then wait ‘til they come back next year.
I believe that Emma Donnan is by Ed Power, too. [It is run by Charter Schools USA out of Florida.] They holding them. They holding them long enough, count the numbers. And my first or second day there a couple of weeks ago, they was just coming in, counting them and leave. Counting them and leave. Count them and leave.
JB: What do you mean, count them and leave?
They would count them: one, two, three…
JB: Coming in the building?
In my class, in the emotionally handicapped room.
JB: OH, you mentioned that when I met you. They would come in and do a head count. Everybody here. And then go. Then what was your job as a substitute?
To make sure they didn’t kill each other.
JB: Was it another special education class or a math class.
It was another special education class; it was the same class, the one that I been in the past two weeks. It was the same class…at Arlington. Are you asking what I did at Emma Donnan?
JB: Yeah, what did you do there?
I was, what position was she?
JB: That was Charter Schools USA [Emma Donnan and Manual are managed by this company, not EdPower]. What was your experience, that’s what I want to know?
My experience at Emma Donnan was heartbreaking, ‘cause like I said, I went there.
JB: It was out of control then. I think the opposite is happening now. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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The opposite is happening now.
JB: You told me Saturday night: it’s a prison.
Yeah, it’s a prison. I was like, yeah, we used to run around and all of that, but we were still looked at as humans. Now, it’s not like that no more. It’s just like they’re going from room to room. As soon as they hit the hallways, it’s: “Get out of the hallways! Get out of the hallways!” It’s just like there’s a cop that stands at one end of the hall; there’s a cop officer that sits at one end of the hallway and so he just sits/stands out in the hallway. They have to wear their lanyards around their neck [with IDs attached] and they walk around with these little portable things and so if the kid does anything, they can scan their badge, print their receipt and they give it to them. (laughs) It’s just like…
JB: So they have this technology, so if a kid’s breaking a rule, they scan their…
Their badge.
JB: That freaks me out. So they scan the badge and print a ticket?
Yup, it’s like a portable scanner and a portable printer, and they just keep it on their hip and they just print. They print a receipt and give it to them.
JB: What do the kids get tickets for?
They get them for, I want to say, detention.
JB: What are the offenses?
Maybe, probably being disruptive, disorderly conduct and all of that. Probably talking, talking out of turn, anything probably that they could push in that little thing, in their portable scanners and they can write for it. I just think it’s crazy. And like they sit one side, the cafeteria, everybody has to sit on one side.
JB: Oh, you told me the students…is it like the cafeterias I’ve seen in IPS. It’s a table like this, a rectangular table and there’s like a picnic bench [seat].
Yeah, on both sides.
JB: But what they do there.
On one side.
JB: I’m sitting on one side of the picnic bench, but you’re not there.
No, I’m on your side.
JB: Do they just fold up the other side.
No, they just leave it down.
JB: So, it’s [the bench opposite is] down [but empty]. And we’re all in a row, facing the same way. What do I see when I’m looking?
The other person’s back. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: Row after row and benches half-filled.
Half-filled. And you’re teacher is sitting at the foot of your table. And so, there’s supposed to be a teacher per table…or every two tables there’s a teacher supposedly.
JB: This is lunch. Can they talk?
They can talk, but it has to be like really low and it can only be between you and the people that are next to you.
JB: Do they file in or can they sit wherever they want? You weren’t there that long.
No, that was a two-day assignment. They have to file in and they can only sit with their class that they came with. They can’t sit with anybody.
JB: It’s not a true social hour.
No, you have to sit with your last period class.
JB: Are these middle school [kids]?
Middle school.
JB: When you saw them do that you felt like…was that another feeling of prison.
Yeah, ‘cause it’s not social at all. Even people in prison probably get more social time than that. Not even just time—I don’t know for real. But that’s not real, right there. They can only talk to whoever’s to the side of them. You know? What if I don’t want to talk to this person? What if I don’t like this person sitting next to me? So, you telling me all day the only time I really have technically free, I’m sitting next to somebody I don’t like. Or that I can’t even relate to and like I don’t even want to talk to.
JB: How were the kids there when you were substituting?
They was unruly. Like the kids at Arlington. The kids at Arlington, they were (laughs)…they weren’t as tough as the kids I’m dealing with now, but they’re there. And like they were all…you can tell per class. Like you started with your first-period class and it was somewhat alright. And like the higher your class went, the more disabilities you deal with, and so, IEPs. Fourth, fifth and sixth period had disabilities. You could tell how they grouped them together, because of the fact that one—they had a teacher. They had a teacher that followed these classes around all day. They call them instructional aides there and so that teacher follows that class all day, because groups of students in that class has IEPs, so they need help re-directing them and stuff like that. That’s why they need to have a second teacher in the room with them, and so…
JB: They need help with re-directing and to me, again, that’s a behavioral issue. Did you see any help that had to do with academic supports?
They needed academic support. The teachers just did it for them.
JB: Were you telling me [when we first met] something about reading? Would you mind repeating it?
I don’t mind. The teacher fourth period class, fourth or fifth class, instead of asking the students, do they want to read, she just said, “I’ll read it for you.” But the instructions, like I told you, the teacher left instructions, well the instructions that she gave me said: Allow the students to read alone. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: There’s a piece of paper with maybe a paragraph on it? [yeah] And it’s like, have the students read the paragraph and--
Answer the questions on the back.
JB: And so the person who is…
The instructional aide.
JB: She said, “I’ll read that for you.”
Because she felt like…the students primarily, to me, are lazy. They don’t ever want to do anything. They just want everybody to do it for them. That’s what it is, because they have been so used to the teachers just doing it for them, because of their disability, that’s what they ride on now. That’s how they have adjusted themselves. They have become accustomed to people doing it for them. And so that’s what she said, that’s why she was just like, “Well, I’ll read it and we can just answer the questions together.” She’s like, “I’ll just read it and you guys can follow along.” One of the young boys said, “Can I read?” She’s like, “Oh, sure! Yeah, you can read.” She’s like, “Yeah, okay.” And then the other guy’s like, “Can I read?” She’s like, “You can just read after him.” That’s when they started the whole reading like that. Like I told you, I was just thinking, why didn’t you just let them read in the first place?
JB: Interesting that you observed that. It didn’t ring right for you. If these kids are capable of reading, why are you doing it?
Yeah. And then even when it came to them answering the questions—the questions were basic. When was Langston Hughes born? “I don’t know. I don’t know.” You do know when he was born. You want me to tell you. The only thing I did was turn the paper over and I kind of put parentheses around the paragraph and said, “Go look for it.” I’m not about to do it for you. I will guide you. However, I’m not doing it for you, ‘cause you are very intelligent and I know that you can find when Langston Hughes was born. Some of that was okay, but the way she did it, she read through the question and she turned it over and she found the answer for them. Then the only thing they had to do was just regurgitate what she said. And then write it down. That’s not, that’s not helping them at all. (laughs) You already told them the answer. You know? It was just kind of like that, that was going on. It’s just sad. The expectations of the students is not high, it’s not high at all. It’s just do enough so you can still be here and I can continue to keep being paid. That’s pretty much where it’s at. To me, that’s how I feel. They’re not learning much.
JB: The thing you said about Arlington--get rich or die--was that what you said?
I’ve been around these kids too long. Get rich or die trying.
JB: Why does that come to your mind? Does somebody say that kind of thing? What does that come from?
It actually came from a movie. It was 50 Cent Movie. It’s what I say, because it’s all the kids on the cell phones, blasting music about getting rich and making money. One little boy that’s in the class, he talking about all his family that been murderers and got 130 years, 200 years. “My cousin just got locked up.” And all of that. He’s talking about, “I’m getting money, I’m getting money. I’m going to stash and invest it.” That’s what I told him the other day. I told him, “You got two options.” And I was just talking to him. “You either got the cradle or the grave.” He said, “Nope. I got three options.” And I said, “Three?” I’m really shocked by this time. He said, “Yeah, I got three options. The cradle, the grave or I can just get rich.” And that’s when I said, “Or die trying.” He said, “No, no. I ain’t going to die, ain’t going to die.” And so, I’ve just been talking to Tim, like he got in a real fight. Like real big fight, feud, like last week. And his face, it was swollen and it wrist was swollen. It’s just crazy. It’s Melita C: Warren 2006?
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just like, how do you get to the educational piece if hourly they’re experiencing these things and they come into the classroom and you tell him to sit down to do 2k +7? You know? Algebraic expressions and all of that. That boy, last week, I couldn’t even…I just left him alone, because he was beaten up so bad. I even asked him, “Why did you even come to school?” “I don’t know. I don’t know, Miss C. I don’t know.” But I’ve been talking to Tim; I even gave him a free ticket to the feature that I had last week, ‘cause I really wanted him to come. He’s into music and stuff like that. I know slowly but surely, I’m getting to him, but…these kids, it’s going to take a lot more work than just being in there for the past two weeks. He leaves November 26, so….
JB: The teacher?
No, Tim, the young boy I’m talking about. He’s off of probation, so his dad might let him go back to his mother back in Milwaukee, which he calls Kilwaukee now. Tim calls it that, ‘cause they doing all that killing up there. But they think…I guess, their religion…’cause when I was talking to Tim last week, I said, “Tim. How can we get you out?” I was really talking to him. I said, “What can I give you, like how much do you want?” He’s like, “Oh, I can’t get out, Miss C. I can’t get out.” I said, “Why not?” He was just like, “it’s in me. It’s in me. And ain’t no getting out. It’s in me.” I was talking to him before I went to lunch. And so when I went to my car and I said to myself, like what does he mean, “it’s in me, it’s in me”? I kept searching my soul. What does he mean by that? So, then it hit me. He meant that it’s in him, because of the fact that he was born into that, like his father is what they call an OG. You know, he was saying how his father has groomed him for this lifestyle. So it’s just like…pretty much his god is his father. And that’s when it hit me. That’s what he means, “it’s in him.” They do all type of stuff, like if you was to go to church, your every Sunday ritual, but they have an everyday ritual. It’s just, that’s what he mean by it’s in him. Oh, I got that. Got it. It’s sad. Every day you’re dealing with trying to get them to read, but every day, they dealing with stuff that takes place outside that. And even if you wanted to get out, would his father allow him to get out? Would that be a dishonor to your family? I told him, you didn’t even have a chance to choose. Now, you’re getting older; now you have a chance to choose ‘cause you older. You have a choice, you know? It’s just a lot.
But I would like—last week, I was working with them. There’s some of them that’s hungry for knowledge, but like I said, it’s like how do you get them to take a test so you can figure out what type of learner they are. You have to really learn by observation. And so, I’ve been learning. Okay, Keenan, he learns this way, he learns by doing. Trinity, she learns by hearing, so it’s just like, how do you…these kids aren’t going to take no test, ‘cause they’ve always had a choice. It’s never like, okay, “You have to do this.” Because I believe you have to make a kid do something until they’re able to make the right decision, to choose what’s right. These kids, they ain’t been made to do nothing. Every day, they can wake up and choose to whether they going to school or not. Since four or five years old. How do you choose to go to school at four? That’s not a choice. So they never were even able…for someone to make the right decision for them, until they were old enough to make the right decision for themselves. You know? It’s just…it’s a lot that goes on in that classroom every day.
I think, too, it’s the administration, ‘cause if I tell them to do something and they get sent to the office, administration ain’t going to do nothing but slap them on their wrists and then they going to come back and cause more problems, because nobody’s doing anything. Nobody is saying, “Okay, this is not right.” They’re just allowing them to do whatever they want. If I’m saying no, and then you’re saying yes as a parent, it’s going to always be imbalanced. Me and Mr. Bernstein, we in this room and we teammates. You saying yes and I’m saying no and they mad at both of us, ‘cause I’m mad at them. You know what I’m saying? (laughs) It’s a mess. You can’t make them do their work, ‘cause they’re so used to not doing it. They just throw the paper on the floor. And then, you can’t make them do it, ‘cause they can’t do it. If you can’t read it, then why are you going to do it? Then there isn’t anything else for you to do, so what do you do? You go around a room and you torture everybody. Everybody and everybody got these emotional disabilities, so everybody’s going to be in an uproar. So that’s pretty much what it is. Everybody’s in an uproar. And so now, you got to calm this kid down, calm this Melita C: Warren 2006?
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kid down, tell this kid to sit down, do your work, but you can’t do your work, because you can’t read it. I don’t have the time to explain to you how to do it, because you missing the other foundational parts to even lead you up to this point. So, I can’t tell you to do something that you don’t even know the formal [?].
It’s pretty much like Tim said the other day. He said, “Man, y’all babysitting.” I couldn’t tell you that you’re right. Then you’ll know that you right. And then you’ll tell somebody else that I said we babysitting. That’s just what we doing. We babysitting. And then we try to look like we working, ‘cause we tell them to do their work. Like last Thursday and Friday when Mr. B wasn’t there, I had them working. I had them working. I created a little math game for them and stuff like that. They was running to the board, figuring out problems. And then Thursday, they took a test and if they took the test right, whatever one that they got wrong, they got a minute knocked off of their 15 minutes—15 minutes of the computer. That’s their main thing, the computer. There’s only four computers and there 17 students and that never works out. And so, every 15 minutes, they’re supposed to rotate.
JB: What do they do on the computer?
You-Tube. You-Tube all day. Blasting Young Soulja Slim or whoever the boy name and Trill Mob and all this rap music. It’s all day, constant, all day. “Turn the music down. Turn the music down. Turn the music down.” And it’s all day, all day. Some of the boys like, on their phones, they be watching pornos, all day. And then you can’t tell them to put the phones up, because if you tell them…it will cause a massive, massive…they’ll put it up for a little bit and then you tell them to do their work, but they can’t. They don’t understand the work. They don’t know how to act, they don’t know how to multiply. You are really, really starting from scratch. And it’s 7-12th grade in this room, so they all are at different levels, so you can’t start with two plus two, what JB need to be learning, ‘cause he don’t even know how to add or he don’t know how to read, so you’s doing two plus two over here, but Trinity who’s 14, she can be on algebra and she don’t even need this. So she’s bored. So she’s going to start acting a fool, because…it’s terrible. (laughs) It’s beyond terrible in this classroom. So, I can see why nobody wants to work in it. What you really need like maybe three teachers. One teacher could take one group, one teacher could take another group, one teacher take another group and kind of do it like that. It’s almost trying to find a needle in a haystack. Some days it’s good, some days it’s bad. Some days you just really let them do what they want, because that’s the only way to keep peace. Like if you quiet, alright then. Ain’t nobody going to come in here and check on you anyways, ‘cause they don’t. Just sit down, just be still and be quiet. If you want to get on the computer, get on the computer. Whatever’s going to keep you quiet ‘til three o’clock. It just makes me sad, ‘cause they come in every day and leave out with nothing new, knowledgeable. Nothing. They have gangs. Even just in life, like some of the boys stink so bad. Like, do you know how to wash up, literally? For real. Do you know how to wash up? ‘Cause some of them stink so bad that it’s just like, come on. Even learning a life skill. Like learn anything. They come in here, eight hours and they go. They haven’t learned anything. And you’re coming to school. It makes me sad, because I don’t even think some of the parents know what’s going on. If I knew that my son, who is especially handicapped or emotionally disabled and he’s coming to school just to sit in a classroom? Oh. And he’s not getting the help that he needs. Unh huh. No, no. I couldn’t do that. I really believe if some of these parents knew, their kids would not be going there.
I think there’s been a lot of stuff that’s been fabricated on paper and then the parents don’t know. The kid could probably go home and say, “Mom, I been sitting in this room all day.” “Now boy, you go to school.” You know how some people think. You at school; you supposed to be learning--that kid is lying. “Oh, no! You at school boy. You better be learning.” No. ‘Cause my mom was the same way. I could tell her my teacher hit me in the face with a book. “Ahhh! No she didn’t, no she didn’t.” I’m like, alright. Of course, they going to believe the adults, because it’s an adult over a kid. I don’t even think these parents know and that’s the sad part. These kids are losing out daily that they don’t learn nothing. I always tell them, I just want y’all to learn one thing. That’s it. Whatever you take away from here, I don’t want you sitting eight hours and not knowing nothing. Thursday and Melita C: Warren 2006?
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Friday was very successful. Very, very successful. I let them do whatever they want all day. I said, give me one hour. So, at the end of the day, that’s when we went over the math and we did a math game at the end. And they really, really enjoyed that. Just trying to find things to keep them engaged. I always think about situations like that. I think about them like myself. As you can see, I was that kid. Like I had to be engaged, I had to be a part of the class. I guess, nowadays they give them medicine, but then they also label them, so they don’t have to be in the immediate classroom. They can separate them. So that those kids…that bad apple don’t spoil the rest. And so, they just separate them.
JB: Is that bad apple getting any help?
No. no. They’re just there. They just [want] their numbers. It’s a tragic, tragic, tragic situation. And I go in every day and I go, “What can I do differently?” But then it’s such a huge problem. This one thing, it’s not going to impact the whole thing, but then I tell myself, it’s just this one little thing. It doesn’t matter how small it is. I just know that I did it. I don’t know. It’s tragic. ‘cause they not getting what they need. I guess a lot of people feel, “oh, well they older. They grow up and out of the system.” Tim even said today, “We don’t get no report card out of here. Do we get a report card?” And Mr. B, I don’t even know what he said. He know he don’t get no report card. They don’t get no report card. It seems like they catching on. They catching on to this…what Tim call it, this BS. Of course, he said the real thing. They catching on to it and they getting mad, because they ain’t no results. But we keep telling them daily to do work and the only thing Mr. B does is he piles it up on the projector. He just allows them to turn it in. He don’t check it. He just allows them to put what they want on the paper. And it’s me that’s going back and be like, “That ain’t right, that ain’t right.” Like I told one little boy today, “I said, man you did your paper.” He said, “I did do my paper, Miss C!” I said, “You did it, but you didn’t do it right.” He said, “Mr. B, he don’t care. He just want us to turn it in.” I said, “What? How? What is it to have the paper turned it, but it ain’t done right? You don’t even know what you’re doing.” This is what I’m telling him and he’s like, “It’s done, it’s done.” I said, “Bring me your packet, Robert.” I checked his packet. A lot of it is done right. However, some of it isn’t done right at all.” I said, “What is a variable?” He said, “What is a variable?” I said, “That means you didn’t do the packet right.” Uhhh. It’s just stuff like that every day, ‘cause my expectations for them is very high. I know what they capable of if they sit down and we figure out how they learn and teach it to them like that. They are very capable of a lot; it’s just all they life, they’re expectations have been down here. Instead of up here. And they haven’t been held accountable for anything. They don’t have any accountability and no responsibility. So, they don’t do nothing. Anybody that comes in and tries to do something different, that person ain’t right. That person is looked at, as like they said to me, “Why are you being so mean today, Miss C?” I’m like, “I’m not. I’m just trying to get you all to understand. This isn’t how life works.” So, now Mr. B comes in at the end of class and he says…he gets them all together and he says, “I’ve done a terrible disservice to you all by allowing you all to do whatever it that you all want, because of your circumstances and your disabilities and stuff like that. But from here on out I’m going to hold you all accountable to what you all doing. I’m going to give you all three re-directives and if you all don’t do it in those three times, you all getting wrote up and you all getting sent out.” All at the same time, saying, “Well, I got an interview Wednesday and I’m leaving if I get the position.” What? Now, you want to put the clamps on them tighter. But then in the same breath, you leaving on Wednesday. That makes no sense, man. (laughs) You should have been and said that. You know? I feel sorry for them kids. ‘cause they just been like…what’s that…a shifter…a strainer. They been in a strainer and the water’s just been running on them, running through the holes. They just been passing up everything, nothing’s hitting them because of their situation. They’re missing the valuable parts of life. It always makes me wonder, like, if stuff was different, how would these kids actually turn out? Who would they really be if they actually had people to—even their parents—to pour into them? I know a lot of the stuff do start at home. Not even just about education; it comes down to family life. What if their family was properly educated and brought up right? Would this generational curse that they say, would this end? Melita C: Warren 2006?
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There’s another little boy, 16, got a set of twins. It’s just like, he just had them a week ago. And I talk to Mike all the time. I’m like, “Mike?” He just thinks it’s cute; he just think it’s funny. I’m just like, man. What do you tell a kid who’s a father? He does look like he’s 30. But what do you tell him? I asked him, are you going to get into any programs? He’s like, “I’m not about to…I’m going to try to do something. I’m not about to do that though.”
JB: What programs?
Like Fathers and Families, anything. Job Corps, to get out of here. He’s 16. It would take his mother to enroll him in some of this stuff and his mother doesn’t even know he’s got twins. He don’t want to tell her. All of that. I’m just like…I just sit back sometimes, just thinking. What can we do? It’s a massive problem all across the board, from life to school and all of that.
JB: Thank you for sharing.
You’re welcome.
JB: There’s nothing I can say. It’s hard. I appreciate that you went in there. You could be one, but that’s up to you.
I don’t know what to do.
JB: I there anything else? You’ve helped me a lot. Is there anything else you want to say? It’s been a lot and it’s been great. I’m only saying it, because I’ve got a lot to think about, but I didn’t want to cut you short. You’ve definitely said a lot.
I guess, it’s my last thing and then I’ll stop talking. One of the things, what happened last week when Mrs. Woodford was in the classroom—she’s an older lady. She has to be in her sixties. And so, she was working with a group of kids. I don’t never have problems out of these kids like the way that she says. It’s almost like what I told you, when I was younger, like because there’s so much going on in the room, like if one kid wants to do something it distracts the whole thing? That’s what happens with her, because she’s older, and so if the kids are talking or something like that. And she like, “Boy, I told you to be quiet! I told you to be quiet! Didn’t I say to be quiet?!” I’m like, if she just keeps going on and on and on. But the kids, its’ like, “Ma’am, calm down.” She’s getting on them, but she’s yelling at them. It’s just like, if you give respect—older people think that they don’t…well, I grew up, they feel like they don’t have to give respect to kids. They feel like, it’s earned and you’re a child, I can disrespect you all day. They don’t never understand—I’m guessing they understand now—you can only beat the dog for so long before it retaliates, you know. You have to give respect in order to get respect. Just because he’s a child or we are children, that don’t mean nothing. You still have to respect them. I’m just looking…I mean, she’s just yelling like blood vessels and everything’s popping. I’m just like, “Ma’am.” And then she’s mad because they are coming back at her. But you don’t have to do it like that. You know what I’m saying? People have to change with the change. You can’t stay the same as you once were and think you’re going to get the same results. Because these kids aren’t like 1945 and all of that. These are a different breed of kids. You have to come at them with respect in order to get it. It was just so sad for me to see her like that. I mean, she was yelling and everything. I’m just like, “Ma’am, calm down.” I wanted to tell her. (laughs) Calm down. I’m standing in front of her. And she’s like, “See what I’m talking about?! These boys, they so disrespectful.” She’s like, “I know you. You don’t deal with them like that, do you?” I’m just like, no. I don’t have the same problems like you either. It’s just crazy because a lot of them, like they yelling and yelling and getting all hyped. They don’t take all that. They have to know that you respect them and they going to give you the respect. I promise you they are. She just tripping me out with that. But that’s just the older generation, you know, the older teachers. You have to change with the times, because if you don’t, you’re going to have to deal with that. Melita C: Warren 2006?
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JB: It’s not working. She’s yelling and there’s just more yelling. It didn’t have the result that she might have liked. That’s my test: If it’s not working…
Yeah. But then she’ll say, “But they being disrespectful. They being loud.” But I’m like, “It’s how you are approaching them.” I can tell a group of kids, “Hey, can you all please calm down.” “Alright, Miss C.” And I’ll say, “Hey, can you sit down?” “Alright, Miss C. I’ll sit down.” You ain’t have to stand up on the table and say, “Sit down! I said sit down!!” Like, I didn’t have to do all that. I just, “Can you just sit down, please?” Or I’ll say, “Mr. Beech, can you sit down, please.” See then, I didn’t disrespect them, so they can’t disrespect me. You know what I mean. I didn’t give them any room to do that. They just got to learn. Look, I’m not even talking about the kids. The teachers got to learn. They got to learn…quick.
JB: Sounds like you’re learning.
I’m learning and my experience makes me know already. I can see because I’ve been there. I can see the behavior, because I was that kid. I was that person. I see it. That’s the only way that I’m able to tap in. ‘cause I been there. But I’m done.
[This was the end but Melita mentioned more about her AmeriCorps’ work at Arlington. She created or helped create The First Arlington Community, Career and Health Expo the school year before the state takeover would take effect. It included arts in the gym. Also, she started a Student Council where all students where anybody can get in; admittance is not based on grades.]
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