Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

As I have said repeatedly, I am not an expert on much of anything. But, extensive Googling on the Olmecs vs. the Aztecs, it seems to me that trying to find ancestors by facial appearance doesn't work too well.

Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

hi
maybe it came from all the underground tunnels?
I heard about them for over 30 years.
from many difference sources. and study it a lot, but always in the back of my head.
I never really though it was truth.
that is until now. (read this)
Click here: Massive, Sophisticated Bosnian Pyramids Hold Ancient Mysteries | Conscious Life News

I now do believe it real.
and they would had found tons of gold in doing this.!!!

Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

Part of local legend where I live is that tunnels exist, running long distances between ancient sites, including the one they called the Tomb of Moctezuma.

The problem is, these hills or mountains are made of travertine marble. Travertine I am told is not a true marble, which comes from igneous rocks. Hope I spelled that right, that means heated. True marble is a product of heat and pressure.

Travertine comes from the action of water on limestone. Under certain conditions it dissolves again and again until it is a very fine marble.

These hills are full of water. If that were not the case, there would be no travertine.

They even drill wells a short distance from the tops of mountains and there is water there.

Any tunnels, especially in some of the locations they rumor has them would really not be empty of water very long. I suppose there might have been some miracle process by which they could create a drainage system. But, where it would have to run across the bottom of a valley or gulch? Where would it drain to?

Now as far as the corn being transported by birds over thousands of years. Not wishing to offend, but that does not compute to me.

On another thread here, I just posted that Pelican Lake in Minnesota, a glacial lake, produced a female skeleton which had a conch shell from the Gulf of Mexico. It has been estimated as coming from 11,000 years ago. It was not carried there by birds. There were obviously traders who went the full length of the current US.

So, personally, not knowing very much about it, I am guessing it was carried very rapidly by traders to all parts of the western hemisphere.

Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

On that corn cob shown in a photo above, that is fresh. Under any conditions I have ever seen, being raised on a corn farm the first 22 years of my life, corn cobs under almost any natural condition visually age over a short period of time. If nothing else they become dusty very fast. If sun hits them, they change color. If they get wet, they turn to crud.

it is possible if you shell out a cob, wrap it in plastic, and put it in a drawer in the dark, it might stay fresh,but this cob does not seem to meet those conditions. At a glance to a farm kid, that is a fresh cob, no more than a few months old at best.

Of course, I am well aware of my ability to make mistakes. If someone else can recount corn cobs placed in protected places that look fresh after a long time, I would not be able to dispute it. I am only recounting my own experience with it. In bone dry places with no rain for years, who knows?

Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

Originally Posted by piegrande

On that corn cob shown in a photo above, that is fresh. Under any conditions I have ever seen, being raised on a corn farm the first 22 years of my life, corn cobs under almost any natural condition visually age over a short period of time. If nothing else they become dusty very fast. If sun hits them, they change color. If they get wet, they turn to crud.

it is possible if you shell out a cob, wrap it in plastic, and put it in a drawer in the dark, it might stay fresh,but this cob does not seem to meet those conditions. At a glance to a farm kid, that is a fresh cob, no more than a few months old at best.

Of course, I am well aware of my ability to make mistakes. If someone else can recount corn cobs placed in protected places that look fresh after a long time, I would not be able to dispute it. I am only recounting my own experience with it. In bone dry places with no rain for years, who knows?

Big foot,
If you are the adventurous type ...
I invite you out to see for yourself that hole in the cliff.
and the corncobb in question.
If you are a farm kid (which at this point I question)
strange stuff isn't new to you.

Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

I think I made it clear in my posting that I might be wrong when I said that cob was fresh. I even stated conditions which I had not experienced, such as dry country, in which a corn cob might remain new looking for a very long time. I have never seen that, and I have seen corn cobs in many different environments, in my younger days we burned them in the kitchen stove, even in house attics where squirrels carried them. And, they were dusty.

I have also seen old cobs in dry caves, secreted in niches, also almost certainly taken by wild animals of one kind or another, and they were covered with dust.

In my entire life old corn cobs either looked old and decomposed because they got wet, or they had dust on them, no exceptions, even in abandoned houses that we tight against the weather. I note you agreed you had no idea when that cob was dropped there. I must say I do.

Let me add there are in most places insects which will also do minor things to corn cobs. I have no idea what insects live there where you are.

The problem is any place that type of corn has enough water to grow is not going to be that bone dry -- unless there is a complex irrigation system, I suppose.

Also, I don't think you have explained why you think it is anything but fresh. Did you see it there a long time ago, and it is still there? If you say so, unlike you, I would have to take your word for it, instead of calling you a liar as you did to me for saying I lived on a corn farm for the first 22 years of my life.

Yet, I am not aware that you have stated that you lived on a farm and had personal knowledge of corn cobs as I did. Again, I will accept whatever you tell me. But, until you do, anyone who sees that picture and does not realize it is fresh would not seem to have been around corn cobs much.

I do resent being called a liar, which is what you did. And, due to that, I would not walk across my street to see it. Nor, probably, would it be a good idea.

The attached photo is a corn cob I just obtained from an uncle who lives at the corner of our property. Note the white color of the olote, or cob. Also, note the size.

That cob in your photo is not easy to scale, because there are no objects of known size in the picture. Except the little places where the kernels were. Corn kernels tend to fit a modest size range, except some popcorn. Based on the normal range of kernel size, that cob is of medium size.

Any corn farmer knows that as corn is inbred, the cobs and plants get smaller and smaller.

That red cob is a cross, based on its size.

I cannot say no primitive people ever knew to cross corn to get renewed vigor, but odds are they did what my uncle does. Each year he takes the largest ears, and uses the biggest kernels from each ear to seed the next time. This means that cob in my picture is extremely inbred.

They do sell hybrid seed corn here, but this corn, which may or may not, have come down through the ages, grows well in dry earth. They do get rain here, but sometimes not for weeks, so survival in dry earth is of primary importance. In other places where water from deep wells is available, they may well be able to use modern hybrids.

I don't know everything about corn that I'd like to know. For example, why are some cobs red and others white? Ancestry, of course, but does it tell us anything? On our farm, all the "field corn" was red, the sweet corn was white. And, except for guessing it is ancestry, I cannot tell you why.

If I am wrong on this, I'd sure like to know. I like to learn new things, and I do not like to be wrong. But, if I am wrong, I'd like to know, rather than calling those who disagree with me, liars, and you have given no data at all to show why that cob is not a fresh cob.

Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

By coincidence, my wife asked me to drive her across the Valley to buy some honey for her sister, who came from Mexico City to visit. This honey is really strange stuff. It is very yellow, and caramelizes almost instantly. It has a very unusual taste, and is made from a plant that mostly only grows in this part of Mexico.

The woman (her husband flies legally to Canada to work as foreman at a large flower greenhouse) had several bushels of corn on her concrete pad. They put up boards, like 2X8's to make shallow boxes, and the corn is stored in them. This is the dry season.

Since we have been discussing corn, I took a look, and out of all those ears, were a few, maybe 6 or 8, red cobs.

When I asked my wife said red cobs are linked to red kernels. But, I found an ear with yellow kernels that had a red cob. So, it seems to be genetic.

Here is a photo of the new cobs. Then, a traditional Mexican canteen, made of a large squash with a corn cob stopper. If you want to scale it, those tiles on the concrete table are 8 X 11 inches, the size of a piece of print paper.

Let me say here I had no intent to offend anyone with my comment on the corn cob. I stated why I thought it was fresh, and welcomed any evidence that would explain it being older than I thought. I still do, and also have no objection if anyone feels it is old, even without evidence. As Dr. Laura says, this is not the hill I want to die on. I am not one of those people who stopped learning when I was 50.

Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

My best suggestion is to research the Anasazi in Colorado. this is their playground.
Not only do we find the cobs all the time but occasionally whole ears. with viable seeds.
many other things can be found as well that I choose not to be the custodian of.
Occasionally we even find the places where they grew this corn,
and the straggling stalks that still seem to come up in the odd years are surprising to see.

Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

Here is a picture of what is believed to be an ancient corn cob. It is pretty much what I would expect an ancient corn cob to look like, both in size and condition, IF it were in a well protected place. I would say also in color, but I really do not know what to think about color, since it seems to be a genetic variable. But, other pictures also showed the color which is called white here in Mexico.

Since the Aztecs did not know how to separate Metals from ores.the gold artifacts they made came from placer gold.and the region rich enough to supply the Aztec empire is situatedto the South East of Mexico City.I actually recovered a small nugget from a stream.Hystory tells us that when the Spaniards came to this region they were presented with Jicaras (squash bowls) full of gold.the placers are still rich in gold since they were exploited using rudimentary methods.even the hills around this region have gold in quartz veins.I might try to exploite some of it in the future.right now it's not safe enough.

My reading also indicated SE of Mexico City, perhaps in the Izucar de Matamoros general area, but more than a small area.

The use of metallurgy by the Aztecs is a controversial topic. Somewhere on here is an ancient drawing of what looks like a bellows system used on gold by Aztec workers. This has been a year or two so my memory is not perfect.

A man I know told me in that general area local indigenous folks were still mining gold in the early 20th Century. He said they used that black rock as wedges, obsidian? And, it will break the somewhat soft rock. He told me where they get obsidian, I forget, isn't that volcanic?

Travertine marble is common in that part of Mexico, though I have not been to that exact location. Travertine can be very hard and brittle, or it can be soft. He also told me there is a plant or herb which can be placed on stone to soften it up, but I know no details.

Of course, modern quarrying in that general part of Mexico uses nitrogen fertilizer and fuel oil, excited by small quantities of dynamite. It makes a lovely thump when it goes off. (N is slow, so it is more of a thump than a BANG. At least, that is what it sounds like to me, though I do not have a strong musical skill.)

The Aztecs also received gold as tribute from conquered tribes.

I do not understand about safety now. Do you mean close to Popo and safety issues resulting from eruptions?

Or, do you mean Zetas? They do not usually roam the hills looking for people digging in the ground. Nor do druggies have a strong presence in that area. In fact, an educated man told me they put their families in that part of Mexico, to keep them safe from the violence.

In truly rural areas in that part of Mexico, you have two problems. A lot of that land is ejido, or communal land, and the people who belong to the ejidos are somewhat aggressive about running intruders off. If you go there, you can be sure someone is watching you, even if you don't see them.

Likewise, some of the land where gold was found by digging into rocks is now Federally protected archeological zone. Think Federal prison, hint, hint.

Of course it depends up exactly where you mean. I don't tell where I live, except that local legends insist that Moctezuma's treasure was buried here. Which helps you not at all, heh, heh. So, I don't expect you to tell where you wish to dig.