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Something on my mind....what would you have done?

Yeah that really sounds like a call to SS is needed:roll:
Put it out of your mind!

Last message from previous page:Yeah that really sounds like a call to SS is needed:roll:Put it out of your mind!

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Eri87law

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Posted on 20-12-2010 at 8.38PM

I very much doubt the atmosphere was due to her not eating a dessert! Maybe she had done something really naughty - hit someone at school or something and they had arranged to meet other people for a meal so they still had to go. Not nice being stern with kids but they do need to be disciplined and learn consequences.
As for calling Social Services that has got to be the biggest over-reaction I have ever seen on Netmums!

I very much doubt the atmosphere was due to her not eating a dessert! Maybe she had done something really naughty - hit someone at school or something and they had arranged to meet other people for a meal so they still had to go. Not nice being stern with kids but they do need to be disciplined and learn consequences.As for calling Social Services that has got to be the biggest over-reaction I have ever seen on Netmums!

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Kat55huw

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 10.45AM

gosh i must say some of the replies on here are a bit rude!
If i did know who they were and had chosen to report to ss then on its own the ss would not have taken any notice. But if they had had other concerns reported from other people as well, e.g. teachers, neighbours etc, then this may have been an additional lever for them to act (in an ideal world). the huge volume of calls to child line etc show that child abuse is not such a rarity as people would like to think, most of it is never ever brought to light (we only hear about the cases where the child ends up dead), most cases i suspect are never even brought to anyones attention, the child just goes on suffering, and gets to adulthood a seriously damaged individual. if we all just ignore anything 'bad' that goes on, then how is child abuse supposed to be detected? only a very very small minority of abusers would do anything in public which would be a very clear cut case, eg physically beat them up in front of everyone.

gosh i must say some of the replies on here are a bit rude!If i did know who they were and had chosen to report to ss then on its own the ss would not have taken any notice. But if they had had other concerns reported from other people as well, e.g. teachers, neighbours etc, then this may have been an additional lever for them to act (in an ideal world). the huge volume of calls to child line etc show that child abuse is not such a rarity as people would like to think, most of it is never ever brought to light (we only hear about the cases where the child ends up dead), most cases i suspect are never even brought to anyones attention, the child just goes on suffering, and gets to adulthood a seriously damaged individual. if we all just ignore anything 'bad' that goes on, then how is child abuse supposed to be detected? only a very very small minority of abusers would do anything in public which would be a very clear cut case, eg physically beat them up in front of everyone.

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Jac03ufo

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 10.50AM

i really dont think there was anything you couldve done really , perhaps the little girl was misbehaving or being difficult , or even asked for the pudding but then didnt want it ,
its hard hearing children being told off especially if the adults are being harsh and i dont think SS wouldve been able to do anything either , im sure the girl is fine

I went to lunch the other day with my sister and witnessed a not very pleasant family situation.On the table next to us were 4 people eating the latter part of the meal. There was a young girl, I'd say about 7 or 8 years old, her Dad, and a couple tho I didnt really get who they were (looked too young to be the grandparents).The little girl didnt want to eat her dessert (not sure why, maybe I missed that bit) but her father was adamant she was going to. Basically the whole table was in silence and the atmosphere was tense. The adults carried on eating and the dad just glared at the daughter with intermittant 'eat your dessert'. the poor girl was obviously upset (i think she may have been crying tho not very obviously/loudly). The other adult male muttered something like 'this was supposed to be a nice christmas meal out' directed at the girl. This carried on for some time until they eventually left (I was having a wee at the time so unsure how things were then). It has been on my mind ever since - should i have said /done something? Even if knew who they were, i wouldnt be confident reporting it to SS (their reputation is not exactly good and anyway who wants to be brought up in a care home?). I feel frustrated and cross......and concerned for the girl....any thoughts pleasex

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i really dont think there was anything you couldve done really , perhaps the little girl was misbehaving or being difficult , or even asked for the pudding but then didnt want it , its hard hearing children being told off especially if the adults are being harsh and i dont think SS wouldve been able to do anything either , im sure the girl is fine

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Eri87law

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 11.10AM

Yes but you can't just go round reporting people because you think they look a bit weird! You should have a valid reason to report otherwise you are just wasting SS time that could be spent investigating actual abuse. I've no idea whether the girl in question is being abused - but nothing you have said would suggest to me that she was. Talking to a child sternly and her not being to happy about it isn't abuse.

gosh i must say some of the replies on here are a bit rude!If i did know who they were and had chosen to report to ss then on its own the ss would not have taken any notice. But if they had had other concerns reported from other people as well, e.g. teachers, neighbours etc, then this may have been an additional lever for them to act (in an ideal world). the huge volume of calls to child line etc show that child abuse is not such a rarity as people would like to think, most of it is never ever brought to light (we only hear about the cases where the child ends up dead), most cases i suspect are never even brought to anyones attention, the child just goes on suffering, and gets to adulthood a seriously damaged individual. if we all just ignore anything 'bad' that goes on, then how is child abuse supposed to be detected? only a very very small minority of abusers would do anything in public which would be a very clear cut case, eg physically beat them up in front of everyone.

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Yes but you can't just go round reporting people because you think they look a bit weird! You should have a valid reason to report otherwise you are just wasting SS time that could be spent investigating actual abuse. I've no idea whether the girl in question is being abused - but nothing you have said would suggest to me that she was. Talking to a child sternly and her not being to happy about it isn't abuse.

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Kat94yvq

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 11.38AM

OP, I have to say I am shocked at your response.
You don't know the family, and little girls are not all made from sugar and spice.
If I take my children out they always assume and insist they have a pudding, but I only allow this if they eat all their main meal.
Unfortunately the portions that are provided are usually massive for my children, so they feel the need to stuff their faces to get a pudding. (now I split a meal between them).
This has often resulted in them being greedy, asking for a pudding, but then being to full to actually want it.
YES, my son and daughter have been reduced to tears, and I have shouted, and things have probably been uncomfortable, but in no way would it have been a SS situation.
This is shocked me into thinking about what goes though people minds!

OP, I have to say I am shocked at your response.

You don't know the family, and little girls are not all made from sugar and spice.

If I take my children out they always assume and insist they have a pudding, but I only allow this if they eat all their main meal.

Unfortunately the portions that are provided are usually massive for my children, so they feel the need to stuff their faces to get a pudding. (now I split a meal between them).

This has often resulted in them being greedy, asking for a pudding, but then being to full to actually want it.

YES, my son and daughter have been reduced to tears, and I have shouted, and things have probably been uncomfortable, but in no way would it have been a SS situation.

This is shocked me into thinking about what goes though people minds!

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Nic95ciq

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 11.46AM

I totally support anyone who reports abuse, because you are right that children shouldn't suffer in silence and that we should never turn our backs to abusive behaviour.
But, seriously, you consider a child not wanting to eat dessert in the same bracket?:shock:
I think 'reporting' such a minor incident is a waste of SS time and a violation of that family. After all, you heard a snippet of a private conversation in a restaurant and made your own assumptions from it. Not a case for SS.

I totally support anyone who reports abuse, because you are right that children shouldn't suffer in silence and that we should never turn our backs to abusive behaviour.But, seriously, you consider a child not wanting to eat dessert in the same bracket?:shock: I think 'reporting' such a minor incident is a waste of SS time and a violation of that family. After all, you heard a snippet of a private conversation in a restaurant and made your own assumptions from it. Not a case for SS.

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 11.52AM

totally argee with you kathryn, this has been us on several occasions, it makes me feel paranoid that people would think about contacting SS! only yesterday while in docs surgery dd was really playing up, running about and it was all muddy and slippery, and she would not sit down, started kicking me so i had to restrain her, as she was nearly getting the old lady sitting next to me too.
i told her if she didnt start behaving she would get a smack, not that i would do this apart from extreme circumstances, but it makes you think, would someone report me?

You don't know the family, and little girls are not all made from sugar and spice.

If I take my children out they always assume and insist they have a pudding, but I only allow this if they eat all their main meal.

Unfortunately the portions that are provided are usually massive for my children, so they feel the need to stuff their faces to get a pudding. (now I split a meal between them).

This has often resulted in them being greedy, asking for a pudding, but then being to full to actually want it.

YES, my son and daughter have been reduced to tears, and I have shouted, and things have probably been uncomfortable, but in no way would it have been a SS situation.

This is shocked me into thinking about what goes though people minds!

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totally argee with you kathryn, this has been us on several occasions, it makes me feel paranoid that people would think about contacting SS! only yesterday while in docs surgery dd was really playing up, running about and it was all muddy and slippery, and she would not sit down, started kicking me so i had to restrain her, as she was nearly getting the old lady sitting next to me too.

i told her if she didnt start behaving she would get a smack, not that i would do this apart from extreme circumstances, but it makes you think, would someone report me?

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Jacqui B(76)

Posted on 21-12-2010 at 12.10PM

Have to say I'm shocked at OP's reaction. I know we can't all speak from your eyes and what you felt but I know from my own experience when I've been out to the shops/coffee shops with our two small children and hubby or granny there have definately been days when I would describe the atmosphere tense! It is normally due to whining for toys or chocolate or ride-on machines in shopping centres. And when you have said &#034;no&#034; and explained why for the hundredth time yes, I'd definately say the atmosphere is tense!!!
Gosh! I thought this was just family life at times and it would never be my first thought to think of social services...:dunno:
Maybe I misread your post!!

Have to say I'm shocked at OP's reaction. I know we can't all speak from your eyes and what you felt but I know from my own experience when I've been out to the shops/coffee shops with our two small children and hubby or granny there have definately been days when I would describe the atmosphere tense! It is normally due to whining for toys or chocolate or ride-on machines in shopping centres. And when you have said "no" and explained why for the hundredth time yes, I'd definately say the atmosphere is tense!!!Gosh! I thought this was just family life at times and it would never be my first thought to think of social services...:dunno:Maybe I misread your post!!

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DJ

Posted on 21-12-2010 at 12.24PM

Look at it the other way though - if you did report it to social services, they would have to investigate, taking valuable resources away from more deserving cases. Not saying this litle girl was or wasnt being abused but the circumstances described here hardly warrant a report to social services.
Yes lots of children are sadly abused but if we reported every single child we saw getting a row or crying etc social services would have no time to deal with the real cases of abuse which would lead to a lot more tragedy. Its a fine line - no one wants to ignore a child who is being genuinely abused but parents need to be allowed to disipline (within reason of course) their children in public without the fear that people will report them to social services for any old reason.

gosh i must say some of the replies on here are a bit rude!If i did know who they were and had chosen to report to ss then on its own the ss would not have taken any notice. But if they had had other concerns reported from other people as well, e.g. teachers, neighbours etc, then this may have been an additional lever for them to act (in an ideal world). the huge volume of calls to child line etc show that child abuse is not such a rarity as people would like to think, most of it is never ever brought to light (we only hear about the cases where the child ends up dead), most cases i suspect are never even brought to anyones attention, the child just goes on suffering, and gets to adulthood a seriously damaged individual. if we all just ignore anything 'bad' that goes on, then how is child abuse supposed to be detected? only a very very small minority of abusers would do anything in public which would be a very clear cut case, eg physically beat them up in front of everyone.

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Look at it the other way though - if you did report it to social services, they would have to investigate, taking valuable resources away from more deserving cases. Not saying this litle girl was or wasnt being abused but the circumstances described here hardly warrant a report to social services.

Yes lots of children are sadly abused but if we reported every single child we saw getting a row or crying etc social services would have no time to deal with the real cases of abuse which would lead to a lot more tragedy. Its a fine line - no one wants to ignore a child who is being genuinely abused but parents need to be allowed to disipline (within reason of course) their children in public without the fear that people will report them to social services for any old reason.

I totally support anyone who reports abuse, because you are right that children shouldn't suffer in silence and that we should never turn our backs to abusive behaviour.But, seriously, you consider a child not wanting to eat dessert in the same bracket?:shock: I think 'reporting' such a minor incident is a waste of SS time and a violation of that family. After all, you heard a snippet of a private conversation in a restaurant and made your own assumptions from it. Not a case for SS.

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Totally agree.

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Kay89cpt

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 1.06PM

I think a few people are missing the point of what the OP is saying. No need for rude comments whatsoever!
I've been in situations similar, where there is something 'wrong' and you can just sense it, it is awful and I think as Mothers we have an instinct whereby we can pick up on any ill feelings.
I don't think it's about the dessert, it's about the tone of voice and the glaring I think that would make someone feel uneasy.
:hug: OP, it's difficult when you have a feeling but not enough of a 'story' to report on :(

I think a few people are missing the point of what the OP is saying. No need for rude comments whatsoever!

I've been in situations similar, where there is something 'wrong' and you can just sense it, it is awful and I think as Mothers we have an instinct whereby we can pick up on any ill feelings.

I don't think it's about the dessert, it's about the tone of voice and the glaring I think that would make someone feel uneasy.

OP, it's difficult when you have a feeling but not enough of a 'story' to report on

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Kat94yvq

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 1.14PM

To think that something like this is likened to child abuse is absured!!
Heaven forbid that an adult upsets a child, and in public!
Come on!
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not one for screaming and shouting, or smacking either. BUT I do like my children to understand when they have done wrong.
It wouldn't usually bother me where I am, if they need to be taught a lesson, then so be it.
As for this though, I expect to have to look around in case someone is keeping an eye on me!

To think that something like this is likened to child abuse is absured!!

Heaven forbid that an adult upsets a child, and in public!

Come on!

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not one for screaming and shouting, or smacking either. BUT I do like my children to understand when they have done wrong. It wouldn't usually bother me where I am, if they need to be taught a lesson, then so be it.

As for this though, I expect to have to look around in case someone is keeping an eye on me!

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Kat94yvq

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 1.20PM

I'm sorry but I couldn't justify reporting anyone on a 'feeling'.
This is peoples families, and lives we are talking about.
The stigma that a family gets when social services are involved can be very difficult to cope with.
Also even if a family is just struggling, or has a few cracks intervention by SS can cause a LOT of problems which may never have been an issue.
I have worked with children, and many people play the SS card, saying they 'think' there is a problem, and would rather do something than nothing, it's those sort of accusations that cause the problems.

I think a few people are missing the point of what the OP is saying. No need for rude comments whatsoever!

I've been in situations similar, where there is something 'wrong' and you can just sense it, it is awful and I think as Mothers we have an instinct whereby we can pick up on any ill feelings.

I don't think it's about the dessert, it's about the tone of voice and the glaring I think that would make someone feel uneasy.

OP, it's difficult when you have a feeling but not enough of a 'story' to report on

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I'm sorry but I couldn't justify reporting anyone on a 'feeling'.

This is peoples families, and lives we are talking about.The stigma that a family gets when social services are involved can be very difficult to cope with.Also even if a family is just struggling, or has a few cracks intervention by SS can cause a LOT of problems which may never have been an issue.

I have worked with children, and many people play the SS card, saying they 'think' there is a problem, and would rather do something than nothing, it's those sort of accusations that cause the problems.

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Marie M(10)

Posted on 21-12-2010 at 2.20PM

How many threads have there been on netmums where a parent has been upset because they were having a difficult time out with their child and a stranger felt they had a right to pass comment. They may have had a feeling but it was unfounded.
I do think if there is agression involved or if a child is in danger then anyone who witnesses has a responsibility to intervene, but there has to be more to act on than just a feeling.

I think a few people are missing the point of what the OP is saying. No need for rude comments whatsoever!

I've been in situations similar, where there is something 'wrong' and you can just sense it, it is awful and I think as Mothers we have an instinct whereby we can pick up on any ill feelings.

I don't think it's about the dessert, it's about the tone of voice and the glaring I think that would make someone feel uneasy.

OP, it's difficult when you have a feeling but not enough of a 'story' to report on

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How many threads have there been on netmums where a parent has been upset because they were having a difficult time out with their child and a stranger felt they had a right to pass comment. They may have had a feeling but it was unfounded.I do think if there is agression involved or if a child is in danger then anyone who witnesses has a responsibility to intervene, but there has to be more to act on than just a feeling.

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Kay89cpt

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 2.41PM

That's what I basically said in my last sentence.
Lots of threads. However this is a distinct difference between having a bad time whilst out with your child and dealing with it, and the problem being pretty obvious to others. And feeling something is 'not right'.
I know what I mean and I hope the OP does too. Everytime I go out I hear parents shouting and it doesn't bother me- but there is something deeper when a parent sits and glares at a child and uses the described tone of voice.
In my opinion anyway.

How many threads have there been on netmums where a parent has been upset because they were having a difficult time out with their child and a stranger felt they had a right to pass comment. They may have had a feeling but it was unfounded.I do think if there is agression involved or if a child is in danger then anyone who witnesses has a responsibility to intervene, but there has to be more to act on than just a feeling.

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That's what I basically said in my last sentence.

Lots of threads. However this is a distinct difference between having a bad time whilst out with your child and dealing with it, and the problem being pretty obvious to others. And feeling something is 'not right'.

I know what I mean and I hope the OP does too. Everytime I go out I hear parents shouting and it doesn't bother me- but there is something deeper when a parent sits and glares at a child and uses the described tone of voice.

In my opinion anyway.

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Marie M(10)

Posted on 21-12-2010 at 2.48PM

I don't really understand your distinction. People see things in different ways. To me this could be someone trying to stay calm, which is surely a good thing.

I know what I mean and I hope the OP does too. Everytime I go out I hear parents shouting and it doesn't bother me- but there is something deeper when a parent sits and glares at a child and uses the described tone of voice.

In my opinion anyway.

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I don't really understand your distinction. People see things in different ways. To me this could be someone trying to stay calm, which is surely a good thing.

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 2.53PM

Hi Kate,
Just wondering if you have a child of that age (7 or 8)?? They can be the most patience-testing darlings that you have ever met! And people tell you that the terrible 2's are bad!!
what i am trying to say is :
1-if you dont have, or have had a 7 or 8 yr old child, you have no idea what its like to parent a stubborn, demanding little sweetheart!
2- we are not all perfect parents 100% of the time, the same as our children are not perfect little darlings that are suitable to be seen out in public all the time.
Really- this isnt sonething to be calling SS about, she wasnt being neglected, abused or horribly treated, her parents were miffed at her and were stern- good for them!
Disiplining our children has become harder and harder due to fear of being reported to SS...and look where its got us...nowhere!

I went to lunch the other day with my sister and witnessed a not very pleasant family situation.On the table next to us were 4 people eating the latter part of the meal. There was a young girl, I'd say about 7 or 8 years old, her Dad, and a couple tho I didnt really get who they were (looked too young to be the grandparents).The little girl didnt want to eat her dessert (not sure why, maybe I missed that bit) but her father was adamant she was going to. Basically the whole table was in silence and the atmosphere was tense. The adults carried on eating and the dad just glared at the daughter with intermittant 'eat your dessert'. the poor girl was obviously upset (i think she may have been crying tho not very obviously/loudly). The other adult male muttered something like 'this was supposed to be a nice christmas meal out' directed at the girl. This carried on for some time until they eventually left (I was having a wee at the time so unsure how things were then). It has been on my mind ever since - should i have said /done something? Even if knew who they were, i wouldnt be confident reporting it to SS (their reputation is not exactly good and anyway who wants to be brought up in a care home?). I feel frustrated and cross......and concerned for the girl....any thoughts pleasex

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Hi Kate,Just wondering if you have a child of that age (7 or 8)?? They can be the most patience-testing darlings that you have ever met! And people tell you that the terrible 2's are bad!!what i am trying to say is :

1-if you dont have, or have had a 7 or 8 yr old child, you have no idea what its like to parent a stubborn, demanding little sweetheart!

2- we are not all perfect parents 100% of the time, the same as our children are not perfect little darlings that are suitable to be seen out in public all the time.

Really- this isnt sonething to be calling SS about, she wasnt being neglected, abused or horribly treated, her parents were miffed at her and were stern- good for them!

Disiplining our children has become harder and harder due to fear of being reported to SS...and look where its got us...nowhere!

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Kay89cpt

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 2.56PM

Exactly, and this is how I see it.
But it's not so much to do with what you see as to how it makes you feel and gut instinct IMO.

But it's not so much to do with what you see as to how it makes you feel and gut instinct IMO.

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Gut instincts may be right sometimes but they are frequently wrong.

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Jac08loe

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Posted on 21-12-2010 at 3.03PM

You dont know what the girl had done beforehand. I have been in restaurants with my son and I have been excatly like that. Telling him to eat his dinner and giving him the &#034;evils&#034; doesn't mean my son is being abused just means he has been a complete nightmare and I am at my wits end with him. And to be honset if a complete stranger came up to me in the street or anywhere and said anything to me about my son I would be tearing strips of them! Its none of their business! Ok before anyone jumps on me if I am beating my son up and down the street then obviously I need to be reported but if I am telling my son off or trying to get him to behave then I have the right to do that.

You dont know what the girl had done beforehand. I have been in restaurants with my son and I have been excatly like that. Telling him to eat his dinner and giving him the "evils" doesn't mean my son is being abused just means he has been a complete nightmare and I am at my wits end with him. And to be honset if a complete stranger came up to me in the street or anywhere and said anything to me about my son I would be tearing strips of them! Its none of their business! Ok before anyone jumps on me if I am beating my son up and down the street then obviously I need to be reported but if I am telling my son off or trying to get him to behave then I have the right to do that.