While MAF was about 1000 times better last night, it bears mentioning that the Pens looked a lot more committed to playing actual defense last night instead of standing and watching. It wasn't until the 2nd half of the 3rd period where the Flyers were able to generate consistent offense and zone time at even-strength.

Pens15 wrote:This isn't really a "told you so" situation. He still stunk early in the series, that still happened. He's still inconsistent and still kind of a headcase.

Yeah, and a lot of goalies are headcases

MAF sucked earlier in the series and in the 1st period last night also, but he definitely played a major role in extending the series Friday night with some stellar goaltending in the 2nd/3rd. I don't care if he sucks during a 20min period if he can rebound and the team win. He's proven he can be good enough to be an impact goaltender and play a large part in winning the SC and that's about all you can expect.

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

He swept 1 puck into his own net, and hasn't been mangling simple shots. He's been facing excellent scoring chances with traffic around and in front of him...mostly short-handed.

But keep hatin'.

Reality isn't "hatin'" and the reality is that MAF has given up several soff goals this series and looked bad in the 1st last night. The MAFpologists always come out in force when faced with the fact that MAF sometimes blows. It happens to all goaltenders and MAF is certainly no exception.

I don't think the Pens need to worry about acquiring another #1 goaltender when you already have a guy who has proven he's a champion and can go all the way through a grueling SC playoff season and emerge victorious. That doesn't mean that he gets a free pass when he sucks. Pointing out the damn obvious doesn't make people MAF haters either.

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

He swept 1 puck into his own net, and hasn't been mangling simple shots. He's been facing excellent scoring chances with traffic around and in front of him...mostly short-handed.

But keep hatin'.

MAF's been giving up goals on a lot of stoppable shots that he handled in the regular season. One really good game doesn't erase the fact he was a shaky train wreck for 3.5 games.

How was he bad in game 1? The breakaway tucked under the bar? The 1-time deflection from the slot? The puck that trickled through your top defenseman, who was standing in the blue paint, to an uncovered Flyer?

How was he bad in game 4? The screened shot that he's got to contend with Briere, known for his overwhelming physical presence, in his blue paint? The 5v3 backdoor pass that's allowed to get thru...that still had to be buried under the bar because he'd gotten over?

The team was a shaky train wreck in games 2 and 3. MAF wasn't good, but his effort wasn't as bad as the defensive effort in front of him.

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

He swept 1 puck into his own net, and hasn't been mangling simple shots. He's been facing excellent scoring chances with traffic around and in front of him...mostly short-handed.

But keep hatin'.

Reality isn't "hatin'" and the reality is that MAF has given up several soff goals this series and looked bad in the 1st last night. The MAFpologists always come out in force when faced with the fact that MAF sometimes blows. It happens to all goaltenders and MAF is certainly no exception.

I don't think the Pens need to worry about acquiring another #1 goaltender when you already have a guy who has proven he's a champion and can go all the way through a grueling SC playoff season and emerge victorious. That doesn't mean that he gets a free pass when he sucks. Pointing out the damn obvious doesn't make people MAF haters either.

Your 'damn obvious' is what I have a problem with. Not every goal is his fault. Not every shot that squeaks through, or goes in off the bar, or is perfectly placed should be described as a soff goal. Games 2 and 3 were the low point of the season (maybe the last 2-3 years) for this team...and Fleury had a hand in those losses for sure...but so did every other Pens skater.

BTW, trying to point out that a goal is not always solely the blame of the goaltender, and can sometimes be attributed to his defense or *gasp* the talent of his opponents doesn't make someone a 'MAFpologist' either.

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

But keep hatin'.

Ugh. Theres that word. Fleury was magnificiant last night, and we all support him. But don't act like anyone pointing out how horrid he was in the first 3 1/3 games is only doing it cuz "we all haters." God do I hate that word. He was awful. But we're all behind him, and he came through. Just don't act like the other things didnt exist.

malkinshair wrote:Your 'damn obvious' is what I have a problem with. Not every goal is his fault. Not every shot that squeaks through, or goes in off the bar, or is perfectly placed should be described as a soff goal. Games 2 and 3 were the low point of the season (maybe the last 2-3 years) for this team...and Fleury had a hand in those losses for sure...but so did every other Pens skater.

BTW, trying to point out that a goal is not always solely the blame of the goaltender, and can sometimes be attributed to his defense or *gasp* the talent of his opponents doesn't make someone a 'MAFpologist' either.

Who said every goal is MAF's fault? Wasn't me. I already stated last nigh in the GDT that Hartnell beating him on the 5-on-3 was simply a good shot by Hartnell that a lot of NHLers fail to lift. The fact that a lot of Flyers' goals this series are nice displays of talent and also at times Penguin ineptitude doesn't mean that MAF hasn't let in some terrible goals, one of which was drifting WAY out of position last night in the 1st period and letting a weak wrister from the point beat him.

I don't see anyone blaming MAF solely for the first 3 games when everyone rightly pointed out how poorly the Pens played team D in all of those games, but MAF deserves his share of blame and hasn't performed well this series up until the 2nd/3rd periods of last night's game. Matter of fact, he pretty much sucked. How is that some kind of revelation or hating on MAF?

As I have already stated, Pens have no need to replace MAF because he's shown he's a SC champion. That doesn't mean he's immune from criticism when he sucks and he has indeed not been good in this series until last night after the 1st period. That's not hating, that's reality, and it should be damn obvious.

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

But keep hatin'.

Ugh. Theres that word. Fleury was magnificiant last night, and we all support him. But don't act like anyone pointing out how horrid he was in the first 3 1/3 games is only doing it cuz "we all haters." God do I hate that word. He was awful. But we're all behind him, and he came through. Just don't act like the other things didnt exist.

Ugh. There's another person saying he was horrid for 3 1/2 games. Was he horrid in game 1? When? Was he horrid in game 4? When? That's why I used the word hatin'. When you take a valid point of criticism (say games 2 and 3), expand it for dramatic effect to solidify your point (referring to it as 3 1/2 games of putridity), you're obviously doing it for some reason...right?

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

But keep hatin'.

Ugh. Theres that word. Fleury was magnificiant last night, and we all support him. But don't act like anyone pointing out how horrid he was in the first 3 1/3 games is only doing it cuz "we all haters." God do I hate that word. He was awful. But we're all behind him, and he came through. Just don't act like the other things didnt exist.

Ugh. There's another person saying he was horrid for 3 1/2 games. Was he horrid in game 1? When? Was he horrid in game 4? When? That's why I used the word hatin'. When you take a valid point of criticism (say games 2 and 3), expand it for dramatic effect to solidify your point (referring to it as 3 1/2 games of putridity), you're obviously doing it for some reason...right?

Good God, so you admit games 2 and 3 are valid criticism but I just hatin' the other times? Game 3 with a 1-0 lead he WHIFFED, on covering the puck in the crease and let it roll in the net. IT WAS AWFUL. He has been kicking rebounds out for miles, and he has knocked even more harmless pucks into his own net and I cannot believe after a night like last night I'm letting someone like you on a message board goad me into bashing him again on the eve of another elmination game. YOU WIN. Seriously you win. Can never point out a players faults. Ever. Because then you automatically hate them.

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

He swept 1 puck into his own net, and hasn't been mangling simple shots. He's been facing excellent scoring chances with traffic around and in front of him...mostly short-handed.

But keep hatin'.

MAF's been giving up goals on a lot of stoppable shots that he handled in the regular season. One really good game doesn't erase the fact he was a shaky train wreck for 3.5 games.

How was he bad in game 1? The breakaway tucked under the bar? The 1-time deflection from the slot? The puck that trickled through your top defenseman, who was standing in the blue paint, to an uncovered Flyer?

How was he bad in game 4? The screened shot that he's got to contend with Briere, known for his overwhelming physical presence, in his blue paint? The 5v3 backdoor pass that's allowed to get thru...that still had to be buried under the bar because he'd gotten over?

The team was a shaky train wreck in games 2 and 3. MAF wasn't good, but his effort wasn't as bad as the defensive effort in front of him.

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

He swept 1 puck into his own net, and hasn't been mangling simple shots. He's been facing excellent scoring chances with traffic around and in front of him...mostly short-handed.

But keep hatin'.

MAF's been giving up goals on a lot of stoppable shots that he handled in the regular season. One really good game doesn't erase the fact he was a shaky train wreck for 3.5 games.

How was he bad in game 1? The breakaway tucked under the bar? The 1-time deflection from the slot? The puck that trickled through your top defenseman, who was standing in the blue paint, to an uncovered Flyer?

How was he bad in game 4? The screened shot that he's got to contend with Briere, known for his overwhelming physical presence, in his blue paint? The 5v3 backdoor pass that's allowed to get thru...that still had to be buried under the bar because he'd gotten over?

The team was a shaky train wreck in games 2 and 3. MAF wasn't good, but his effort wasn't as bad as the defensive effort in front of him.

Thats the thing. EVERYONE admits how bad the defense was. Everyone knows it. But Fleury was bad. Only difference is the people with an actual brain who can admit Fleury was bad doesn't rush to D's um, defense. They all played a part. LET IT GO

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

He swept 1 puck into his own net, and hasn't been mangling simple shots. He's been facing excellent scoring chances with traffic around and in front of him...mostly short-handed.

But keep hatin'.

MAF's been giving up goals on a lot of stoppable shots that he handled in the regular season. One really good game doesn't erase the fact he was a shaky train wreck for 3.5 games.

How was he bad in game 1? The breakaway tucked under the bar? The 1-time deflection from the slot? The puck that trickled through your top defenseman, who was standing in the blue paint, to an uncovered Flyer?

How was he bad in game 4? The screened shot that he's got to contend with Briere, known for his overwhelming physical presence, in his blue paint? The 5v3 backdoor pass that's allowed to get thru...that still had to be buried under the bar because he'd gotten over?

The team was a shaky train wreck in games 2 and 3. MAF wasn't good, but his effort wasn't as bad as the defensive effort in front of him.

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

He swept 1 puck into his own net, and hasn't been mangling simple shots. He's been facing excellent scoring chances with traffic around and in front of him...mostly short-handed.

But keep hatin'.

MAF's been giving up goals on a lot of stoppable shots that he handled in the regular season. One really good game doesn't erase the fact he was a shaky train wreck for 3.5 games.

How was he bad in game 1? The breakaway tucked under the bar? The 1-time deflection from the slot? The puck that trickled through your top defenseman, who was standing in the blue paint, to an uncovered Flyer?

How was he bad in game 4? The screened shot that he's got to contend with Briere, known for his overwhelming physical presence, in his blue paint? The 5v3 backdoor pass that's allowed to get thru...that still had to be buried under the bar because he'd gotten over?

The team was a shaky train wreck in games 2 and 3. MAF wasn't good, but his effort wasn't as bad as the defensive effort in front of him.

Rocco wrote:You can't really blame the D when MAF is sweeping pucks into his own net or mangling simple shots on goal.

He swept 1 puck into his own net, and hasn't been mangling simple shots. He's been facing excellent scoring chances with traffic around and in front of him...mostly short-handed.

But keep hatin'.

MAF's been giving up goals on a lot of stoppable shots that he handled in the regular season. One really good game doesn't erase the fact he was a shaky train wreck for 3.5 games.

How was he bad in game 1? The breakaway tucked under the bar? The 1-time deflection from the slot? The puck that trickled through your top defenseman, who was standing in the blue paint, to an uncovered Flyer?

How was he bad in game 4? The screened shot that he's got to contend with Briere, known for his overwhelming physical presence, in his blue paint? The 5v3 backdoor pass that's allowed to get thru...that still had to be buried under the bar because he'd gotten over?

The team was a shaky train wreck in games 2 and 3. MAF wasn't good, but his effort wasn't as bad as the defensive effort in front of him.

Thats the thing. EVERYONE admits how bad the defense was. Everyone knows it. But Fleury was bad. Only difference is the people with an actual brain who can admit Fleury was bad doesn't rush to D's um, defense. They all played a part. LET IT GO

Fleury was bad in games 2 and 3...when did I say he wasn't? Fleury wasn't bad in games 1 and 4, and was spectacular in game 5...yet some people (not you, DudeMan) keep trying to turn him into some sort of scapegoat for the team being down 3-2 by placing more blame on him for the losses than the team as a whole.