Redefine the term "rehabilitation" in context of prison

The way I understand it, prisons are established for three reasons. 1. Deterrance: fear of getting caught keeps people from committing crime. 2) segregation: Keep people who have harmed others from doing it again. 3) Rehabilitation: the idea that the criminal will change in some way so to not break the law again.

I think the idea of deterrance is good. I also believe deparating criminals is a good idea, but ONLY if they endanger others. I do not believe the current prison system is concerned with rehabilitation. The term needs to be dropped, redefined, or removed. If anything, the prison does worse than rehabilitate.

Feb 14 2014:
Actual rehabilitation requires the following:
1. Practical and scientific understanding of what causes THAT criminal to engage in THAT criminal act.
2. Using #1 to figure out how to prevent THAT criminal from being in THAT situation again while doing the least necessary damage to the criminal in the process.
3. The will and resources to do what is necessary to enact #2.

It is that simple.

The first problem is that dogmatics and dimwits do not want #1, ever, under any circumstances. They want their dogmas to be accepted without question. Note that "dogmatics and dimwits" is not synonymous with "liberal", "conservative", or any other specific political cult's name. It refers to anyone who uses a Cartesian approach to the question instead of a Baconian one.

The second problem is that bureaucrats and pencil-heads do not want to do the work for #2, under any circumstances. They want cookie-cutter procedures that require no thought or responsibility on their parts.

The third problem is that tightwads, along with dogmatics and dimwits, either want NO resources to be expended or they only want methods that agree with their little cult beliefs to be used.

Feb 27 2014:
Looks to me very rational and reasonable analysis of the issue, as it should be. One thing important to remember when trying to rehabilitate criminals is that the rehabilitation process should not cause anyhow any risk or harm to the surrounding society and particularly to the criminals' victims. I know some cases from the news where I live when such rehabilitation trials had caused real and irreversible damage to innocent people, including a murder of a 16 years old girl in street by a criminal who was on a vacation from his prison in the name of such rehabilitation ideals.

Comment deleted

Feb 27 2014:
It is the best redesign plan for the prison system I have heard. The guards would not have guns or tazers? No yelling, cursing, or hate speech? Would there be solitary confinement, and if yes, would that be punishment?

Feb 27 2014:
That would be an interesting transition to observe Carolyn!

It reminds me of a tiny thing I did when interacting with incarcerated offenders. I make aroma therapy "stuff" from garden herbs....usually starting with a base of mint and lavender infusions, then add other herbs as the spirit moves me:>)

The facilities are dark, drab and smelly, so I started bringing a very small plastic spray container filled with aromas, which I sprayed on all permeable surfaces on the way to the sessions and in the room.

At first the guys made fun of it, noticing that I had "perfumed" the room. I told them what it was, and that sometimes it just makes us feel better. They continued to joke about it and I continued to do it.

After a couple times, they started commenting about how good it smelled, and soon they were asking me to spray their papers and notebooks so they could bring the scent back to their cells. A couple times I forgot to bring it, and they started playfully chastising me for forgetting it. It was interesting and enjoyable to observe the transition:>)

We each bring an aroma with our presence and attitudes... usually starting with a base of this and that infusion, then other 'herbs' as the spirit moves us ::>) I hold that you comment can be generalized and abstracted into a wonderful process:

We each bringing about a spray container filled with aromas, which we spray on all permeable and impermeable surfaces on the way we pass to the intersessions and in the rooms. At first other may make fun of it, noticing that we have "perfumed" the room. (some may even say we stank up the place) Tell them what it be, and how that sometimes it just makes us feel better. They may continue to joke about it in disbelief and we may continued to do it in belief.

After a couple times, those in disbelief may start commenting about how good certain beliefs smell/feel/look, and soon each may ask to spray the papers and notebooks so each can bring the scent back to their cells. when someone forgets to bring the soothing sent , others can start to playfully chastising them to remember and bring it on. It can be interesting and enjoyable to observe the transitions taking place here and elsewhere.

Feb 19 2014:
If the system really wants to rehabilitate people, they should be offered an immediate aptitude test and then basic training in some necessary skill that would enable them to find a job upon release. A son in law of mine learned welding while in prison. He not only makes a living now, he has become a serious and sober parent who is attempting to keep his own children from going down the drug path. Not everybody can go to college but wouldn't it be cheaper and more effective in the long run if these, the most hapless of our citizens, could emerge as effective providers for their families?

Feb 19 2014:
It makes you wonder why schools still only teach subjects and not skills such as welding, plumbing, electrician, mechanics, etc... Every child should leave school with at least one of these abilities.

Feb 22 2014:
Great point - even though children may be unable to handle some professions fully (some do demand heavy work) but schools shall INTRODUCE kids to different professions not only by describing these by words... However, this practicing might be pricy for schools - in terms of obtaining some equipment and paying new teachers.

Non-profit organizations can make a great change practically supporting education in this direction.

Feb 23 2014:
I know many upper classes and middle classes in these job roles. And I am not just talking about the skills mentioned in my previous post. I am talking about skills across the board from mechanics and plummering to journalsm, party politics and leadership. Surely learning journalism or forensic psychology would be far more beneficial to learning English or chemistry Respectively as a broad subject that leaves you clueless to your career options?

We leave 13 years of education and all we are employable for is a checkout assistant or customer service role (if we decide not to go onto further education). 13 years!!!! There is something either completely flawed about the education system or it's a deliberation to keep those who don't feed into the further education system in the lowest paid jobs. I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly had the Intelectual capacity to learn my university education whilst at high school. It would save time and money to educate all kids from 14 years onwards in the fields they are interested in. The average person will never need to know algebra or logarithms to be successful in their prevered field of study. I have never used half the subjects In my adult life that I was taught at school.

I would also like to say That those who are not born with a silver spoon in their mouth often have more aspirations and abilities than those who are. This may however be the problem. The rich are used to buying their position in society whereas the poorer have to work for it, but t the end of the day if the poorer kids were educated in the right field of study (manual labour or proffessional) they would certainly prevail as they also have something called life skills.

Mar 10 2014:
The keys is education - but also the people have to ask what does the term "criminal" really mean. "If you deface property with graffiti you can be charged with willful damage which is punishable with 5 years in prison." quoted from the Queensland, Australia, legal website. Whereas hooning (qld term for reckless driving) attracts a maximum of 6 months jail.

A system that enforces such laws is definitely incapable to design meaningful rehabilitation programmes. Such a system is beyond reform and I can understand that many youngsters have no respect for perverse justice system of this sort.

Feb 19 2014:
Absolutely Joan....it would be wonderful if incarcerated people could emerge as effective providers for their families. Thanks for the story about your son in law. It sounds like a very good outcome:>)

Feb 21 2014:
Joan, Your story gives an inspirational example for Everyone - showing it is possible to learn under very difficult circumstances and even Use the troubling situation of any sort and turn it into something rewarding, mentally and practically.

Mar 9 2014:
Without having read any responses, I'd like to express my first thoughts on the subject. Prisons seem to be an attempt at a 'one size fits all' fix. To me this seems grossly unintelligent and like Andy Johnson, I feel it does more harm than good in a lot of cases. In order to rehabilitate, you can't mix everyone together. As it stands, prison looks like somewhere you have to 'survive'... not learn a lesson or get better.

in my mind, offenders should be locked up with similar offenders... And the staff on hand should be trained in the rehabilitation of their specific issues.

Feb 20 2014:
The problem with all these ideas is that to change someone (which is what rehabilitation is), the person really, really, really has to want to be changed... and even then is likely to fail to change their habits.

How do we make people want to change?

What do you do with people that fall back into old, destructive habits?

I was going to state how what you said be at the core of the issue, and how it's even useful within dialogues where individuals choose to hold embrace cultivate certain ideas and how in exploring/resolving the issue of me thinks x---, you thinks y----, and moving to think about z--- (using angles radiuses rather than orthogonal 'moves' ) seemed reasonable .... until I realized an alternative, that has to do with disregarding wants and focusing on doing what ought to be done... learning and enjoying it

You ask : How do we make people want to change?
Simple answer : We invite them to ... enjoy ... suffer ... do what ought to be done. In other words they will learn and do what ought to be done one way or another sooner or latter willingly or not.

You ask : What do you do with people that fall back into old, destructive habits?
Simple answer: encapsulate them within a protective shield to keep them from harming others, stuff, themselves.

I realize that my first paragraph is highly condensed and codified, if need be will help anyone interested in decoding it and understanding what I meant to convey by it. For the record, I think that to change, an individual just hast to change.In fact its bound to happen sooner or latter with or without the willing consent of the rider; for the ride process will take place "the rite of passage" will happen --- might as well have the proper attitude and move forward rather than backwards... of course it helps to move forward if one holds the appropriate habits, skills disposition and does what ought to be done, as it ought to be done, when it ought to be done..

Know how to do it
want to do it
be able to do it
accomplis the deed
savor the ramifications (or suffer the consequences)

Thank's your words and inquires made me thing of somethings and wonder about it...

Feb 20 2014:
You are absolutely right Darrell...for someone to change, s/he really, really, really has to WANT to change, and if s/he really wants to change it might be more successful.

We CANNOT change people, and we CANNOT make people want to change. We can offer some ideas (tools) which might facilitate change.

Offer something different in a way that might entice them to want to learn more about it. In the cognitive self change sessions I co-facilitated, we stressed the idea of choices. People who repeat the same patterns over and over again causing challenges for themselves, have usually forgotten that they have choices regarding their behaviors. We usually started the sessions by talking about choices. As children, many of them did not have choices, so they repeated learned behaviors. As intelligent adults, they DO have choices.

As children, EACH of them had choices; they just didn't know all of the actual choices they had!
As adults, each one does has choices; some which are known, and some which are unknown.

Its true that if s/he really, really, really WANTS to change, a change might be more successful... of course its also true that some changes will happen wether one wants them or not... at most one can choose and influence a bit how the changes moves.

Feb 20 2014:
Esteban....many of them did not have choices. When someone forces a child into being used sexually, OR get beat up, that is not a valid choice. Awareness and information sometimes helps people make choices which they themselves are in control of.

Even when forced into some situations each has choices regarding what to think/say/do ... Please note the empowering fundamental notion behind this statement... Also please realize that this seeks to short-circuit the blame game... I realize that many 'victims' get entangled in the blame game... rather than reporting factual objective observations, considering the options, and taking action.

In other words recognize what happened (or what be happening) and move on to effectively deal with it.

Again they did have choices and Awareness with information about the possibilities they had could had facilitated making different choices for themselves ... lets recognize what happened and move on to effectively deal with it.

Yea some things are within our control and some things are outside of our control...
Like the serenity prayer
"serenity to accept the things we cannot change,
Courage to change the things we can,
And wisdom to know the difference."

Feb 21 2014:
Esteban,
My comment is..."As children, many of them did not have choices, so they repeated learned behaviors. As intelligent adults, they DO have choices."

Very young children do not have the mental stability or knowledge to make informed choices. A 2 year old who is being sexually molested by male relatives, including his father has very few emotional or physical resources to be able to make different choices. It might help to familiarize yourself with some of the stories of those incarcerated, so you can speak about the situation with more knowledge.

Feb 21 2014:
Colleen, I agree. When somebody wants to change it's a a moral obligation of the society in which he lives, provide him/her with the best tools, the best means to achieve this.
A society does not benefit itself disregarding the person who really wants to improve, in the first place, because it's not moral disregards their need for real support, and secondly because if the person who wants to integrate can't do so by lack of means, society will again suffer the consequences of their conduct.

As you sort of stated
it is in the best interests of the society and the individual to procure and provide the best tools, the best means to achieve positive changes for everyone.

regarding the person who really wants to improve, AND the one who doesn't
each will 'benefit' from the consequences of individual conducts thus it is in one's own benefit to benefit others and help them to do the same... disregarding if some want the help or not and also disregarding if some want to help or not... it's a a moral obligation and even a selfish act to help each to be helpful . As Colleen stated "it is helpful to be engaged with the process... taking care of ... the underlying issues with individuals or society". Now days someone business ... is everyones business.

If you want to profess and insist that story-line rather than an alternate story-line so be it...
as I see it you are basically stating:
- an individual does not have the mental stability or knowledge to make informed choices
. then an individual does have have the mental stability or knowledge

the alternative story-line I am putting forth
- Even when forced into some situations each has choices

Of course that alternative story-line may just be a delusional notion because in reality individuals have no choice in the matter, some just think that they do have a choice and some just think that they do not have a choice...

Basically individuals either have a choice or don't :
1- having a choice, thinking one has a choice and choosing the better ways leads to the optimal state
2- having a choice, thinking one has no choice leads to suboptimal state
3- having no choice... well that says it ... a choice-less state

IN the case that 'one has no choice ' I am not sure which is better --- recognizing what be or thinking one has a choice --- ultimately in this case it matters not; for in such a case one has no choice in the matters.

Thinking one has choice, can be because one has no choice or because one does
either way one proceeds as if one has a choice ...

Personally I prefer to assume that everyone has a choice, though I do recognize the possibility/reality that some proceed under the influence of 'stuff that strips away any choices ... resulting in choice-less states'. Personally I prefer to assume that everyone has a choice even in the choice-less states because thinking one has a choice and choosing the better ways may leads to the optimal state.

Just imagine the tragic humorous irony imprisoned by their beliefs, thoughts, ideas of being imprisoned... individuals could choose a better option they just choose not to choose it, while thinking that's better ...

Feb 21 2014:
Esteban,
My statement is clear...here AGAIN is my comment....
"As children, many of them did not have choices, so they repeated learned behaviors. As intelligent adults, they DO have choices."

"Very young children do not have the mental stability or knowledge to make informed choices. A 2 year old who is being sexually molested by male relatives, including his father has very few emotional or physical resources to be able to make different choices. It might help to familiarize yourself with some of the stories of those incarcerated, so you can speak about the situation with more knowledge."

You apparently taken the statement "Just imagine the tragic humorous irony imprisoned by their beliefs, thoughts, ideas of being imprisoned... individuals could choose a better option they just choose not to choose it, while thinking that's better ... " and found a particular subjective interpretation YOU deem worthy of cultivating and which evidently you projected for everyone who reads this to contemplate, think, experience... I noted how you chosen to create something and project it into words, capitalize words... I find what you have chosen to do and post to be an atrocious association that needs to be recognized for what it be.

Yes your statement is clear and it advocates the story-line : "many of them did not have choices, so they repeated learned behaviors"... It is clear to me that you do not see how you are repeating your learned behaviors that disempower the fact individuals do have a choice. I realize that it may be the case that you do see how you are repeating your learned behavior and consciously choosing to repeat such way. It is just that I choose to prefer to think that you don't see it and thus act the way you do; for considering that you do see it and still choose to act the way you do to advocate that disempowering story-line rather than choosing to cultivate an empowering story-line seems to me quite atrocious...

Originally I was going to agree with the notion that "HERE IS NOTHING HUMOROUS ABOUT THEIR STORIES" regardless of the fact it completely shifted the focus to a quite a different context... I was going to agree that indeed there isn't anything humorous about their stories... Then I realized that somewhere within their histories there be humorous things ... So is it a fact that there is nothing humorous to the situation or is it just that some individuals have chosen to see only certain stuff in a certain way?

AGAIN I prefer to assume that everyone has a choice, you seem to prefer something else.

I repeat...
"As children, many of them did not have choices, so they repeated learned behaviors. As intelligent adults, they DO have choices."

"Very young children do not have the mental stability or knowledge to make informed choices. A 2 year old who is being sexually molested by male relatives, including his father has very few emotional or physical resources to be able to make different choices. It might help to familiarize yourself with some of the stories of those incarcerated, so you can speak about the situation with more knowledge."

the story-line I putting forth:
- Even when forced into some situations each has choices
At each moment each has choices.

The words each 'employs' reveal what each thinks and that reflects back on what it is each chooses to cultivate... some observe their thoughts /feelings /actions reflect on where these lead consider the alternatives and decide the direction to follow.... some just keep repeating what they have learned...

Little children often do not have choices, and there are many wounded children in our world, who grow up and continue the cycle of wounding others. Many of those who are incarcerated are wounded, and that is why Robin Casarjian wrote the book...."Houses of Healing"..."A Prisoner's Guide to Inner Power And Freedom". Wounded people generally do not function as well in our world.

As adults, their is an opportunity to evaluate thoughts, feelings, actions and reactions to determine what choices they will make, which is what the Cognitive SELF Change program sessions are about.....providing the tools (ideas) that might help break the cycle.

I find the ideas in your first few line almost overwhelming and would prefer that you focused on actually providing positive ideas.

Do you realize what it is you are feeding and cultivating with the notions:
- 'they' do not have choices -
- 'they' continue the cycle of wounding others-
- incarcerate wound do not function as well?

Why is it that you insists on invoking 'the negativity' rather than 'the cycle of healing others'?

It seems to me that you want to keep the cycles you mention rather than embrace better ones. Now please focus on positive contributions. Lets make a definitive once and for all transformation that moves each and everyone towards a much better state where individuals appreciate and value positive ideas as they ought to do.

Let's realize what it is we are feeding and cultivating with the notions/thought/feelings/actions/words/intentions we invoke :
- 'Everyone' has choices - let each choose the better alternatives and help others do the same
- Each can initiate, establish and maintain beneficial habilitating cycles of healing and enrichment
- Lets confine and encapsulate what ought to be confined and encapsulated while promoting and liberating what ought to be promoted and liberated to function as well as possible and even better.

That is insists on invoking 'the positivity' and bring about 'the cycles of healing'.

In life there is always an opportunity to evaluate thoughts, feelings, actions and reactions to determine what choices will make better choices, as we improve ourselves, and our surroundings including others there...providing the tools (ideas) that bring about help and ensuring adequate implementation.

Keep in mind the imagery of what it is actually desirable-sustainable-congruent with the ways of life.

I am focusing on the topic question while I am also addressing you:
- insists on invoking 'the positivity' and bring about 'the cycles of healing'.
- Lets confine and encapsulate what ought to be confined and encapsulated while promoting and liberating what ought to be promoted and liberated to function as well as possible and even better.
- Each can initiate, establish and maintain beneficial habilitating cycles of healing and enrichment
- let each choose the better alternatives and help others do the same

In life there is always an opportunity to evaluate thoughts, feelings, actions and reactions to determine what choices will make better choices, as we improve ourselves, and our surroundings including others there...providing the tools (ideas) that bring about help and ensuring adequate implementation.

Keep in mind the imagery of what it is actually desirable-sustainable-congruent with the ways of life.

Feb 22 2014:
Esteban,
You are focusing on preaching to me, rather than addressing the topic question.

I am in favor of learning, growing and evolving in every single moment of the life experience, and I do it with good, beneficial energy for myself and those I interact with. That being said, there is always room for improvement in all of us.

I also encourage and support choice in people who are ready, willing and able to make choices for themselves. Little children often do not have the ability or opportunity to make choices for themselves.

the underlying challenges we are dealing with here and everywhere have to do with what individuals choose to cultivate and do (and not do)... and what it takes to get changes to take place for/in/with the individuals, the circumstances, the groups, the institutions, the systems and a bunch of other locations. We each chosen to partake in this conversation seeking to address certain points and hopefully help figure out better ways which will spillover into actual specific actions through society that individuals take.

I have chosen to propose and expose certain story-lines put here in a way that I consider individuals will find helpful and which will 'force' them to move and embrace changes in a better way.

I see you tint and paint what you perceive I am doing... with your assessment that I am focusing on preaching.
If we wanted we could delve deeper into the matter to see if in fact your assessment of what I be focusing accurately corresponds with your assessment ... or if the truth of be something else. Personally I have more interest in exploring more relevant matters and focusing on other topics related to this conversation...

BTW I now that I find that resorting to such preachiness comment as a justification to dismiss out of hand without much introspection the notions expressed... I also observe how the claim "I also encourage and support choice in people..." is contradicted by the claim "they did not have choices".

Little children do have the ability and opportunity to make choices for themselves... investigate the research... I recently saw an article about it... which said that even six months old choose the nice bunnies - I think i saw it on cnn and had the title : Do babies know right from wrong?

Yes the children featured had choices, some choices where better than others... of course it would be much better if everyone had much better choices and even just access to only good choices...

Feb 22 2014:
You cannot "force" individuals to change Esteban, and I do not agree with even trying that method. I understand from our very first conversation however, that is what you would like to do.

Children often do not have choices Esteban. Yes, of course a six month old will choose a "nice bunny", as you say. Will that child choose to be raped? Can that little child do anything about it if someone chooses to rape him/her? No.

If you actually watched that video and still believe that little children have choices, there is something missing in the information you choose to accept.

I said 'force' within apostrophes for a reason... I realize that for individual true change to happen the individuals need to choose it ... what I would like to do is find a method where each and everyone actually chooses to embrace the better method regardless of the fact that they may want a less desirable one... in other words how do we redefine the rehabilitation process to ensure everyone there gets out of there and even serves to prevent others from getting into there...

You insist with the story-line that 'Children often do not have choices' Why is that?
I am sure you can find examples to justify your argument that they don't
Can you find examples to justify the argument that they do?

I can see how "there is something missing in the information you choose to accept" in fact I think you made that statement to me as a reflection of something you need to see and consider yourself... please followthrough and make the appropriate actions...

Based on factual observations its clear to me that each and everyone has choices and possibilities regardless of the fact some (like you) claim otherwise. IF what you said was true, was true THEN you would be right in saying it was true.

How do you reconcile the claim:
"I also encourage and support choice in people..." given you claim "they did not have choices"... Maybe it is that you do not practice recognizing children as people...

I also wonder how you reconcile the statement:
"I am in favor of learning, growing and evolving in every single moment of the life experience, and I do it with good, beneficial energy for myself and those I interact with". with "That is ridiculous! Stop preaching ".

The reason I ask is that actually a bit of an exploration related to this conversational topic. Imagine if it's so difficult for us to reach shared consensus on such a matter as "each and everyone has choices and possibilities"... even you have expressed the claim "I also encourage and support choice in people who are ready, willing and able to make choices for themselves." then how much more difficult it will be to attain such shared consensus with others... I suppose that given the factual observations... either you are not ready, are unwilling, are unable to make choices for yourself or a combination of those happens...

Please note that I may choose to stop responding to your comments because I reached a point that I consider you will maintain unchanged your behavior.

Feb 23 2014:
Esteban,
Based on factual observations while volunteering in a family center, shelter for women and children, and the dept. of corrections for several years, and simply observing and exploring the life processes, with many people, it is clear that there are many possibilities for change with people who have the cognitive abilities to evaluate the situation and make informed choices.

I am NOT "claiming otherwise" and it does you no good to continue to twist my words. You only discredit yourself.

I have said over and over again, that little children often DO NOT have the cognitive ability and/or the freedom to make informed choices for themselves. That fact is backed up with psychological research Esteban, and if you really care about it, you can do your own exploration.

Again.....often little children do not have the cognitive abilities or the freedom to make informed choices for themselves. Adults DO often have cognitive abilities and freedom to make informed choices for themselves. There is nothing to "reconcile" with those statements, and if you do not understand the statements, it is ok.....there is no useful purpose in twisting my words to try to justify your argument.

While many of those incarcerated were abused and sexually assaulted as children, when they did not have choices, they DO have choices regarding their behavior as adults, and the "cognitive SELF change" sessions I co-facilitated, helped those who did not have choices as children, to learn that as adults, with exploration of "self", they DO have choices.

You continue to twist my words and use statements out of context, Stay on topic Esteban. This conversation is NOT about analyzing me. The topic question is..."Redefine the term "rehabilitation" in context of prison". Please note....I would be grateful if you stopped harassing me with your off topic twisted comments.....that would be a gift to me...thank you.

Indeed " it is clear that there are many possibilities for change"
- with people who have the cognitive abilities to evaluate the situation and make informed choices
- with people who lack the cognitive abilities to evaluate the situation and make informed choices
- with people who still have to acquire abilities to better handle the situation and make better choices
- even with people who have it all.

Based on factual observations of what you just posted... and a couple of notions...
it does you, me and others no good to continue to discredit yourself (and others) by saying one thing and then the opposite. Yes you insist and continue to proclaim that in essence little children often DO NOT have the freedom to make choices for themselves when in fact each and everyone has such freedom (to some extent)... I put them words in parenthesis for you, to ease the acceptance of that last statement.

I have done my own exploration and found that psychological research and other research results do validate the fact that individuals have choices. I realize that those under the influence of stuff can be impaired from following certain choices unless the impairment is resolved and they are under the influence of different stuff. Which in a way redefines the terms and abilities each holds, employs, uses, supports, practices.

There is something to "reconcile" with those statements (you just don't see it; or see it and choose not to see it), if you actually understood the statements, and ramifications you would act differently. There is a useful purpose in twisting, dancing and interacting between us and others... I hope you come to see it...

I too would be grateful if you stopped harassing me with your discrediting comments... I would appreciate if each and everyone would seek to appreciate and value the gifts each brings into the conversation... even if / when they don't understand it...

Feb 20 2014:
I have been locked up and learning is a huge part of being locked up. I learned more about being a criminal during my time i spent there. i met new people inside that after my release furthered, and raised the bar (so to say) of my wrong doing's. it's safe to say that i received a degree for criminal knowledge while my time locked down. I also have associates that are older men now that have never worked a 9 to 5 job a day in there life. they also have started with mediocre crimes in there past, and after a few different incarcerations have gained a wealth of knowledge of many different activities. what i'm trying to say is if you don't get "scared straight" you usually end up just going to school for criminal knowledge. Now with that being said I have decided throughout this past year (starting a new family) to put away my old ways and turn over a new leaf. it is the right thing for me to do so i decided to do the right thing. However as far as REHABILITATION go's THAT'S A JOKE. it is purely a cash in hand business for the men and women who run it. the inmates are lowered to animal instinct's and treated like such. so why should they not hold a grudge at the system during and after there time spent there.

Feb 24 2014:
These is a great personal story Michael, thank you for sharing these observations. It is not difficult to read between the lines here; you are someone that has made a great effort to reclaim your life and that is not only noteworthy, it warrants our support.
I'm curious though, you have not included much about how you managed to accomplish all that you have. Perhaps I can encourage you to write a little more about this part.

Feb 14 2014:
Rehabilitation has definately been removed from our Justice system. The main culprit is the Private Prison System where convicts are not rehabilitated. Instead they are trained to be repeat customers. Isnt' Capitalism wonderful? Other causes are the Rich, who can buy Justice (Affluenza, anyone?); the War on Drugs which makes criminals out of otherwise law-abiding people; and the emerging Police State.

Any Rehabilitation program is a Soft Science. That means lots of money, poor results and recitivism. Will we pay for it? Will we accept the failures?

A Line must be drawn somewhere, beyond which you are 'not redeemable.' After that line a criminals only use to society is as a bad example. All rights should be revoked. Execution should be swift, public and gruesome. That would make a better deterrant than 'Life in Prison' aka '20+ years on Death Row at a cost of $75k/year then a quiet and dignified painless death.' All money saved should be used to pay for education thru college for the victims family. That might break the cycle a bit.

The problem is that the Draconan measures needed will never be taken. Some of the solutions would be worse that what we have. For example, if Scientists found a 'crime gene' or developed a drug which erased bad thought processes the use would destroy more of society than it saved. Besides, such a 'crime gene' is actually important for the human race - all forms of deviant behavior have a purpose when looked at from the standpoint of Humanity's growth. (But that's a WHOLE 'nuther subject entirely.)

Rehabilitation does need to be the goal. But we have choosen Retribution and Profits instead. Whatever happend to 'Paying your debt to Society?'

Feb 15 2014:
Crime gene? Not exactly, but 80% of prisoners have education issues. 60% have reading disabilities and the majority of them are know to be dyslexic. One person in five in the population is dyslexic to some degree. With rare exception, public education is devoid of the programs capable of teaching dyslexics. Bring these programs to prisons and public education and the possiblility exists to reduce the prison population by half. For the other half, some could be trained in new skills, some cured of mental disease and for some a painless death might be deemed less cruel.

"When a criminal stands in front of the judge’s bench today, the legal system wants to know whether he is blameworthy. Was it his fault, or his biology’s fault?

I submit that this is the wrong question to be asking. The choices we make are inseparably yoked to our neural circuitry, and therefore we have no meaningful way to tease the two apart. The more we learn, the more the seemingly simple concept of blameworthiness becomes complicated, and the more the foundations of our legal system are strained."

"Today courts rarely admit brain scans as evidence at trial for both legalistic and scientific reasons. As neuroscience matures, however, judges may increasingly see such scans as relevant to arguments about a defendant’s mental state or a witness’s credibility.
The greatest influence of brain science on the law may eventually come from deeper understanding of the neurological causes of antisocial, illegal behaviors. Future discoveries could lay the foundation for new types of criminal defenses, for example."

I have the idea that there exists an intricate body-thought-spirit interrelationship... which complicates matters a bit more... especially when individuals interact within and across circumstances and systems... nature, nurture, individual choices and a couple of other factor all play their parts.

Fortunately the point here centers on what to do with the situation ... how to redefine the term related to rehabilitation ... or if need be related to habilitation ... from a theoretical stand point I agree lets do away with the death penalty ... in other words ensure everyone lives and learns to live appropriately... How do we do that with someone bent on their and others death?

Feb 24 2014:
For starters, the so called "war on drugs" put people in jail ruining their chances of education jobs and housing.http://newjimcrow.com/
Let's change that. Prison make these peoples lives unredeemable.

Secondly, we have the right to a defense, as long as you have the money for a lawyer and your not a person of color.
"William Stuntz was the popular and well-respected Henry J. Friendly Professor of Law at Harvard University. He finished his manuscript of The Collapse of American Criminal Justice shortly before his untimely death earlier this year. The book is eminently readable and merits careful attention because it accurately describes the twin problems that pervade American criminal justice today—its overall severity and its disparate treatment of African-Americans."http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/nov/10/our-broken-system-criminal-justice/?pagination=false

I think that prison is just a symptom of a much deeper disease... related to the 'addicts' ways... and the present system to treat individuals 'possessed' and under the influence of all kinds of stuff, physical, emotional, cognitive, spiritual, circumstantial , systemic etc... of natural and unnatural origin. Similarly the so called "war on drugs", it is also a symptom of a much deeper disease...

How do we rescue and restore someone bent on their and others death? what to do to remediate the situation ... how do we redefine the term related to rehabilitation ... or if need be related to habilitation ... from a theoretical stand point I agree lets do away with the prisons ... while ensuring everyone lives and learns to live appropriately... Maybe some level of segregation, 'sequestering' and encapsulation be required... to contain the disease and to protect the healthy public... of course ideally with the processes to advance from one level to the next ... It seems to me that this conversation here centers on precisely figuring out these processes and methods...

Drugs and addictions can make peoples lives unredeemable just as make peoples lives bearable... Good addictions aka habits can ensure wellbeing... BTW I just noticed how you planted the story line:
- ruined your chances of education jobs and housing
In actuality that story line is a seductive lie (which was likely unintentional stated) here is a much better true alternative story-line
- the so called "war on drugs" can put people in jail and complicate individuals lives including their access or opportunities to procurer education jobs and housing. Of course rather than get those things individuals can create them or the conditions to attain them things for themselves. Which is what rehab is about...

Feb 24 2014:
Good article Fritzie, which also mentions how crime impacts families, our societies, and speaks of a "broken" system.

I believe there are several broken systems that are all intertwined and adversely impact families and society. As a volunteer in a shelter, family center, and with the dept. of corrections, as well as a case reviewer for awhile with SRS (state agency which oversees children in state custody), we saw the same families going through all of these systems generation after generation. There are a lot of people falling through the cracks of systems that are supposed to be helping them.

I observed some folks going through the motions with jobs in these systems, and not really paying attention to the people, and the reality of their lives.

Feb 24 2014:
America’s justice system suffers from a mismatch of individual rights and criminal justice machinery, between legal ideals and political institutions. When politicians both define crimes and prosecute criminal cases, one might reasonably fear that those two sets of elected officials—state legislators and local district attorneys—will work together to achieve their common political goals. Legislators will define crimes too broadly and sentences too severely in order to make it easy for prosecutors to extract guilty pleas, which in turn permits prosecutors to punish criminal defendants on the cheap, and thereby spares legislators the need to spend more tax dollars on criminal law enforcement."
William Sturz

New order to rehabilitate the prisons we must rehabilitate the systems that fills them.

The other day, I asked someone what it would take to change what individuals did and change the system
They said to do that we must change the system that incentives them to act in such a way
AND they said that the system isn't going go change so individuals aren't going to change.

their response was a bit of a chicken and an egg conundrum... maybe we need to talk to the rooster

I believe that seeking to change 'them' will be futile, we need to present a better alternative that catalyzes and brings them to change.

Yes I listened, read and considered some of your resources. Why is it that you choose to feel frustrated rather than choose a different 'thing'? Why is it that you choose what you did choose rather than some other alternative? For example I think you could have been curious about the matter at hand...

Why did you choose to consider that I ignored the resources rather than chose to focus attention on something I find a bit more pertinent to this conversation?

Yes we must change ourselves first if we ought to change ...

BTW
Allowing you to jump of the cliff does not make me responsible for you jumping off the cliff
even when you do it in my name ... it does not make me responsible for what you choose to do
Please reconsider carefully what it is you want to do and what you choose to do.

The ones that do these things ... need to reconsider what it is they do...

Now I again have that urge to blurt a notion : With this I fulfill all of my debts as previously agreed.
THIS IS A WAKE UP CALL :-)

Of course now we can choose to move on and focus on what to do next...

Feb 24 2014:
Esteban,
This discussion may be a wake up call for you regarding this topic, and some of us have been addressing these issues for years. It might be beneficial for you to listen to information that is already well known.

Considering the notion that free will is a very limited proposition will make for this dialogue to be very limited in scope. Yes I hold and presented a 'free will' stance and way of thinking. Far from arguing from opinion, I am presenting statements for your (and others) consideration. If you care to dialogue, converse and explore them statements then great let's do that. If you want me to argue and convince you of the veracity of the statements then I will pass... been there done that too many times... besides having fulfilled all of my debts as previously agreed... it's now a matter of our individual choices.

Considering the notion that free will is a very broad proposition will make for this dialogue to be very broad in scope. Let me know through this medium if you would like to delve into and jointly explore certain matters.

Colleen from what I been observing here you may be addressing these issues for eons to come until a redefinitioal singularity point just happens... and the present wake up call is recognized and accepted... take all the time you need... if it was me I would heed and choose to embrace the present wake up call ... right now. Let me know through this medium if you would like to delve into and jointly explore some matters.

Feb 21 2014:
Prisons can create violent criminals, because some prisons are really rough inside and inmates have to defend themselves. If non-violent crimes are committed people should be ordered to pay stiff penalties or commnity service if they cannot afford to pay, there is plenty trash to be picked up off of highways, streets swept, parks cleaned, our prisons would not be so filled and tax payers would not have to pay $40,000.00 a year to house one inmate. Mandatory education in the prison system would be the way to go not just counseling..Educating. Make productive individuals not lifetme criminals. If the aim is to truly to rehabilitate run like a Military camp.

Feb 20 2014:
I suppose we also have to remember that not all criminals are from socially deprived backgrounds. In fact there is an equal spread of criminality across all social classes if we exclude Petit crimes and robberies (which may be directly related to social class inequalities).
The crimes which people really do require rehabilitation for are those which are violent and tormenting in nature. Tax dodgers and supermarket theifs don't bother me too much and should not even be locked up in the first place. If we start using the prison only for those that really need to be there/need to be rehabilitated then better rehabilitation programme can be concentrated on.

That is why I like the programs that focus on diversion, repair, education and community involvement. That is why I also like the idea of a self-sustaining village as a correctional facility.

Putting people who are involved in misdemeanors, in with felons, simply gives the first time offenders more information about crime, and the atmosphere of a prison is not a good place to try to change the habits and behaviors that got them there!

It seems to me that two things need to happen for a better redefinition of the term "rehabilitation" in context of prison.
1- A shift from punishing them for what they have done to getting them to learn what they ought had done
2- An institutionalization of a programs that focus on effectively 'directing', repairing, remediating and educating participants for enriching beneficial community involvements.

Lets imagine a 'stratification complex' which be like a self-sustaining village of volunteers (be it by their choice or by the choice of others) where individuals can check-in and stay-in till they can manage to be self-sustaining 'productive' members of society.

I would like to see a place that will take those needing habilitation and help them along the path of becoming better individuals that is optative for anyone while being a required for some. I think many just don't know better ways to follow to better themselves... Kind of like what someone mentioned regarding good behaving children who seek attention and their counterparts who resort to 'misbehaving'... In their mind I am sure it's something along the lines of whatever works thats what I will employ. Maybe there is a way of bootstrapping and get some traction for betterment which includes an open door to anyone who desires to partake in the initiative.

I read that some 'criminals' commit a crime to go back to the way they know ... it would be nice if they could just go there to get genuine help... Ideally paying their-way through their participation.