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Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Most of the stuff the guy said about his conversation is true...the only, only thing up for debate with Ray's dealings with him is if he sent Ray the Antler stuff and if Ray sprayed it. They did talk and Ray did ask the guy to send him a package.

It is not unreasonable to think Ray may have used the spray based on what he and the guy said. It sounds like in the end it doesn't mean anything because the stuff may not have had it at all.

Ray did admit talking to the guy. So that removes a lot of the speculation about "whether it was really him on the phone." At least in one instance, he did. And he admitted asking for something from them. And I agree it's not unreasonable to assume that (a) the antler stuff was included, and (b) that he actually took it.

I'd say both (a) and (b) are more likely than not true.

Where that leaves us is still questionable, but certainly as I said earlier, if this spray was actually banned at the time of the order being placed then he likely had every intent to violate the policy -- and probably did.

The unknown is really whether the spray had the banned ingredient in it, or had enough of it, to violate the league's drug policy.

Certainly it wouldn't shock me if these dudes just sent sugar pills in a bottle and called it anything to make a buck. I see no reason so far to conclude that the pills actually contained enough IGH-1 or whatever its called to violate the drug policy. Have any of the articles shown an analysis of this product? Has it been tested?

Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

Not sure I quite understand. Here you have a bunch of players and a coach, publicly touting this on a website and in videos.

How could they all be so stupid if it was banned?

Seems to me, they must not have thought it was.

So in responding to them, it seems to me the logical thing for the NFL to say is"this deer antler stuff is a banned substance, do not take it, do not endorse it." Why tell them not to endorse, but stop short of saying not to take it?

It's one sentence to add to a letter, FFS. It's not a lot of effort to type that one sentence. Again as lawyered up as the NFL is, the tendency is to remind, explicitly, then remind them that you reminded them. To remove all doubt (and of course, liability to the NFL, in the event this stuff turns out to shrink testicles in 20 years).

Again, if this was a clearly banned substance, the NFL would have said so. Until I see otherwise, that's what this is telling me.

I guess my point is that IGF-1 is the banned substance. That info. is available to the players. Its on them not to put that into their body. If they eat some of their dogs dog treats on a dare, and it happens to have that in there, well they have taken a banned substance. They cant plea ignorance, and say that the NFL didnt tell them that beggin strips contained something that was on the banned substance list. Its on the players to make sure they are not taking banned substances. Maybe the NFL knew that the company was a little shady and that players should stay away from it. But they shouldnt have to list every product on the market that contains every banned substance in it.

Fwiw on the body building forum I frequent the consensus on this deer antler extract is that it's bs like most supplements. People didn't experience any positive effects from it as far as strength or muscle gain.

Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Fwiw on the body building forum I frequent the consensus on this deer antler extract is that it's bs like most supplements. People didn't experience any positive effects from it as far as strength or muscle gain.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

when the first story came out a couple years ago, I ordered a bottle (by the way that's what they're after this time too). Never felt anything, never noticed any improvements, nothing. Tastes like shit too

when the first story came out a couple years ago, I ordered a bottle (by the way that's what they're after this time too). Never felt anything, never noticed any improvements, nothing. Tastes like shit too

I was tempted to get some lol they were selling out of it when that story first broke years ago

Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

Where did he specifically deny using deer antler velvet? He just said he has never tested positive

The only denial I've seen is that he reportedly told the team he didn't take the stuff. But I have not seen a denial from him.

And that statement he made makes me nervous. In my line of work that kind of statement is a HUGE red flag.

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