(quote) Andy-896770 said: Well, one thing that I have a big problem with, Patrick, is that how can I like someone romantically without being friends first. I find I'm usually attracted to girls I know and am comfortable with. For me, friends are VERY attractive and I just can't see why being friends first is not normal. In fact, I can honestly say that I've been attracted to a good number of my female friends. I guess, when I was younger I dreamed about marrying a childhood sweetheart, though I never had one. So, I could ask out a random girl I don't know, but I probably will have a really hard time opening up and I probably will have to try to overlook the fact that I'm not sure if I'm interested in her. Now, Catholic Match makes it much easier to talk to girls I don't know right off the bat since I can read her profile and see if I'm interested. Unfortunately though, it's not always possible to ask out a girl on CM due to the distance factor. I've seen a few girls on here within driving distance but I'm not really interested in any of them- it's mainly been long-distance girls I've been interested in. On CM you can send messages back and forth and get to know one another but is it really dating? I mean when I think of real dating I think of that as actually meeting up and going out. Maybe I need a friend to set me up for a blind date or something.

(quote) Katie-822269 said: Please don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way, Andy, but perhaps the problem is that you are thinking in terms of "friendzoning". Put yourself in the place of the women you have pursued. Perhaps they were aware of your interest, but more than likely not. She has trusted you as she would trust a friend and placed confidences in your care, not thinking you were evaluating her as a potential partner.

If and when you meet someone who is interested in YOU, you don't have to be overly-forward but be honest in your actions and your intentions that you ARE interested "that way". That way it eases the pain of the asking and being rejected, because it will come out sooner what you are truly "after" (you won't find yourself in the 5-years-long-quasi-relationship situation) and the women you are interested in won't be as taken aback or feel as betrayed.

In the meantime, I would encourage you to enjoy the friendships with women God is blessing you with! How I appreciate the qualities of my male friends! Their strength has been a great comfort in times of distress, and I trust their opinion in who I am dating, sometimes more than my female friends, since they don't seem to be as caught up in the "romance" of a courtship. There are great things you can learn from your female friends to prepare you for the beautiful spouse God is simultaneously preparing for YOU as we speak!

I have a slight bone to pick with this. The friend zone phenomenon originates from differences in how males and females approach the beginnings of relationships. Guys can - and should - circumvent the issue by setting things on the dating course earlier on. However, things aren't going to always follow this pattern. Guys (and the younger they are, the more likely it is) are going to drag things out into the friend territory. Others (and it's definitely more likely for guys than girls) are going to be blindsided down the line that girls they've known for a while actually hold romantic interest for them.

Girls can do guys (and other girls - for whom those now-bumbling guys will one day make good spouses) a big favor by not reacting to an unexpected romantic overture from a guy friend as some sort of betrayal. Sure, he may have had feelings for a for a while and not acted on them soon enough. You may look on that as a sort of misrepresentation. In some sense it certainly is (friendship between the sexes can surely only truly exist if there really are no romantic feelings lurking in the background), but it never does good to assume the worst about anyone. Take it as that which it almost certainly was - an unintentional confusion by a guy who has some growing up to do. Girls in this situation probably have some growing up to do yet as well, and since this is a vulnerable time for the guy concerned as well, can do their guy friends the tremendous favor of not overreacting and acting as if the guy's romantic interest is somehow inappropriate. He may have approached it poorly, but those feelings he has are normal and completely healthy. They are what one day will allow him to enter a fulfilling relationship with one of your sisters in Christ, and if you lovingly but clearly inform him of your lack of interest, he probably won't have too much trouble moving on to find her.

Calmly dealing with his unwanted revelation can build him up tremendously. Overreacting can put him in a negative spiral of confusion and doubt. Certainly, these sorts of things come up suddenly, and it requires great self-mastery on the part of the young lady concerned, but if she handles it well, she will have done a great service - and may well get to enjoy her friendship with the bumbling young man long into the future, and he with her.

(quote) Andy-896770 said: hmmm... you all have some really good points. I think I need to find a good singles group in my area. The trouble is that I'm already in so many young adult catholic groups in which I know everybody and there are a lot of couples in these groups. I have yet to find an actual SINGLES only group for my age range. If anyone has any information, I'd really appreciate your input.

And for the record, I do not feel called to the religious life in the slightest. The idea of marriage is just way too awesome.

Enh, prolly not :)

I don't think there are any, and I doubt it would make any sense to start one. There's umpteen ways to meet new people. Just cast the net a bit wider. Over time, people come and go a lot; the turnover in young adult type groups is amazing - and only works to your benefit in the longer term.

Andy, I live not too far from you. At the risk of sounding like another middle-aged mom-type offering advice and comments here I go. There are lots of Theology on Tap meetings in the area. I don't know your mass preference but we have a lot of great parishes. Ann Arbor is just brimming with choices.. Old St Patrick's (Extraordinary Form Mass once a month), and other masses are very traditional, St Thomas the Apostle. urban, diverse. solid and oozing the faith (and lots of activities for all ages), Christ the King- Charismatic. Plymouth.. Our Lady of Good Counsel and Fr John Riccardo who exhorts all men to be authentic Catholic Men. Detroit- wow- message me and I can start a list for you.

You never know where you (or anyone) will find "the one." Don't be afraid to ask someone out for some one on one time. I agree with all that I have read. I am almost 52 and would thoroughly enjoy being asked out for coffee (by an age appropriate man!), or some Panera's time, a walk through Ann Arbor, or Plymouth, or Northville. Sadly, not so much in Dearborn anymore, but the Henry Ford- anytime!

You may also find that if you start doing this with some of the gals that you currently find "attractive" your opinion of what or whom you find attractive may change. There may be an image or ideal in your head that is not really practical or right for you. You will never know unless you ask some of these gals out and figure it out for yourself. A "date" means nothing more than that. It is an event. You are taking a gal out. If you continue to see her then it becomes "dating."

I say "carpe diem" and get on with having some fun and take some risks!

If you're this frustrated with the site, It's probably because you do much better in real life. Once the pinkys black-ball you in their private room you should just seek out that "special someone" elsewhere. I know, there are a lot of good Catholic ladies on this site. But at this point they probably think they're better than you or are guided by a handful of off-their-rocker hags who weaseled their way in as a surrogate matriarch.

thank you for posting this. I think there are several aspects to your question: I've observed some patterns, that somehow add up:

1-From the way you express yourself, you might be an introvert. Although introverts are not well seen by society(since they make up only a quarter of the world's population), especially by women, in reality introverts are a great thing. In general terms, they don't like to chit chat alot, something that is unfortunately almost always required when courting a woman. Introverts get tired pretty quick by too much social interaction. Most introverts are highly sensitive, so they get annoyed by too much external stimuli. People with this personality have a very rich inner world, they are highly idealistic, creative and very intelligent, because they're usually more focused. They tend to want to be more alone to reflect and recharge their batteries. Take J.R.R. Tolkien for example. The man ws highly introverted, but had the mind of a genius. He created a whole mythology, and he had a great wife: Edith, who even supported his writing. So if you feel you are like that or you share some of those aspects, just reflect upon it. It doesn't make a person more or less, you just have to deal with ignorance. That's life.

2- As a way to increase the difficulty level for being "awkward" , as some may say, the media increases this. You have people who are virgins in Highschool and college and later on to be weird, while those who do not wait are seen by heroes. This behaviour, and the macho in general is done by many men, in part due because most women promote that behaviour, despite the feminist movement. Nowadays you have the "nice guy syndrome", the direct effect of extreme feminism, and the macho way combined. IF you couple that with an increased divorce rate, people not wanting to wait before marriage anymore, the baby pill, people overworking to gain more material things and status, which leaves their children, not knowing how to be masculine and feminine, and enviromental destruction(hormones in waterways), this problem only becomes more acute. Nowadays, women become masculinized and men feminized. I mean that as a general thing. It is for us all the more confusing to know our role in society and within a family.

3- Regarding the media again. Many of you may criticize me for not being very favourable towards self-help books. I ask you this my fellow CM'ers: what has this type of literature really taught us? Many of the information there is against Christian values, and geared more towards moral deconstructivism. That was and still remains a pillar for communism and other venues. Many vouch for more self esteem and "confidence". That'S nothing more than pumping your own ego. It goes against the teachings of Christ, about humility and about placing trust towards God, and not on our own force. There's another concept, namely being "cool". In my opinion that's one of the worst concepts our humanity has come up with. It is related to political correctness, being eloquent, calculating. All of that diminishes individuality in a person, to a point where if you stray but just one bit from that line, you're a called a geek, nerd, dweep, what else? I don't know, the way I see society nowadays reminds me of George Orwell's 1984 book about Big Brother and it's teachings.

So to wrap this up, understand Andy, that the friend's zone and all that are just human rules. If we people started really living like Christians, and not worrying about status quo, then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. If I seek a woman, I not only want her to share my faith, but it is important for me that she can be herself, that she doesn't live by a script written by some professional in a book, rather that she can think for herself and bind herself to God. You should keep going. If I may add some advice(hopefuly you're not fed up with advices), make your own path, and just be attentive if someone crosses it and wants to accompany you. Don't believe the self-help culture, because that's not guided by the Holy Spirit. Seek God and his wisdom. The teachings of the Church provide the weapon of truth, with which we can live towards changing this world and pavving the way for God's kingdom, and His Justice.

Andy, You made a rude and low-blow about the "pinky room" and I must call you out on it.

First, there are no "old hags" in the pink room. I drop in there at least every other day. There are only LADIES that have a lot of love, a lot of life and a lot of encouragement for their fellow sisters in Christ. It's a great place to shed a tear (we are women), get a hug, have someone help us sort out our hearts and heads (that's emotion and logic), and let out the loneliness and frustration of being single in a "coupled" world, all the while doing our best to be authentic Catholic women. We want to be faithful daughters of the King, sisters of Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit.

Never once have I read anyone black-balling or running down a man in the "Pink Room."

We get frustrated with "poofers"-- the fellows that just disappear without a reason or reply.

We get frustrated with fellows that want endless emails, but won't or don't want to move on to phone dialogue (written text only goes so far with communication).

We get frustrated with men that want more pictures and more "full length" pictures. We don't want to be objectified.

We are women. We have been through difficult marriages, painful divorces, tedious annulments, the illnesses of passed husbands and the loss of husbands due to death. We also have beautiful and never married women who yearn to be good wives. We have a rich spirituality, are not not defined, but "refined" by the experiences and pains in our lives.

We know that we aren't perfect, and we aren't looking for perfect men. We are looking for the the one man that God wants for us, one that is willing to open his heart, and to be our authentic Catholic husband. We want chaste courting relationships, men that will pray with us and for us, attend mass with us on Sundays, and love us for who we are.

I don't know where your bitterness comes from. I suggest that you take it to the "boys room" and figure out what is troubling your heart. You have my forgiveness for your comments because I won't have it any other way. I will also keep you in prayer this evening.