Ross Douthat ponders the Liberal Marriage Hypothesis

In the 1980s, this would have been a preposterous question. Everyone knew that liberalism stood for sexual license, single motherhood, and disregard for traditional institutions. To ask if liberalism was the salvation of marriage was like asking if smoking cured cancer. But slowly, people started to realize that working-class people, who are most likely to profess traditional values, are increasingly the least likely to actually live them. Meanwhile, the educated upper middle class, after experimenting with divorce and single parenthood in the 70s and 80s, went back to traditional marriage, while continuing to espouse a belief in gender equality and other liberal ideals.

A scary idea began to dawn on conservatives: What if they had marriage entirely backward?

Many optimistic liberals believe...that what needs to be imitated most are the most socially progressive elements of the new upper class’s way of life: delayed marriage preceded by romantic experimentation, more-interchangeable roles for men and women in breadwinning and child rearing, a more emotionally open and egalitarian approach to marriage and parenting.

The core idea here is that working-class men, in particular, need to let go of a particular image of masculinity — the silent, disciplined provider, the churchgoing paterfamilias — that no longer suits the times. Instead, they need to become more comfortable as part-time homemakers, as emotionally available soul mates, and they need to raise their children to be more adaptive and expressive, to prepare them for a knowledge-based, constantly-in-flux economy.

Like most powerful ideas, this argument is founded on real truths. For Americans of every social class, the future of marriage will be more egalitarian, with more shared burdens and blurrier divisions of labor, or it will not be at all. And the broad patterns of upper-class family life do prepare children for knowledge-based work in ways that working-class family life does not. (emphasis mine)

Douthat clearly understands the Liberal Marriage Hypothesis, and he appears to be warming to the idea. As a proponent of the hypothesis, I see this as a very good sign!

But the ship of ideology does not turn on a dime. Like a socialist reluctant to realize that revolution is bad for the workers, Douthat continues to struggle against full acceptance of the LMH:

But the idea that progressive attitudes can save working-class marriages also has some real problems...it underestimates the effective social conservatism of the upper-class model of family life...Notwithstanding their more egalitarian attitudes, for instance, college-educated households still tend to have male primary breadwinners: As the University of Virginia’s Brad Wilcox points out, college-educated husbands and fathers earn about 70 percent of their family’s income on average, about the same percentage as working-class married couples.

The difference, of course, is that under conservative gender roles, the 30% that women earn is an unpleasant necessity. Traditional masculinity tells husbands to be ashamed of that 30% - "What, you can only put 70% of the bread on the table?" I suspect that shame can break apart a marriage, driving a man to leave his wife in order to find his missing masculinity in other activities.

Douthat continues:

Meanwhile, as cohabitation and churchgoing trends suggest, many working-class Americans — men very much included — have gone further in embracing progressive models of identity and behavior than many realize, and reaped relatively little reward for that embrace...

[T]he Johns Hopkins sociologist Andrew Cherlin cites research suggesting that many working-class men, far from being trapped in an antique paradigm of “restricted emotional language,” have actually thrown themselves into therapeutic, “spiritual but not religious” questing, substituting Oprah-esque self-help for more traditional forms of self-conceiving and belonging.

As evidence goes, this is fairly weak. The quantitative evidence presented by Charles Murray in Coming Apart - that working-class people are more likely to espouse traditional values and less likely to live them - is not in imminent danger of being turned on its head by these anecdotes.

Finally, Douthat suggests his alternative to the Liberal Marriage Hypothesis:

We may have a culture in which the working class is encouraged to imitate what are sold as key upper-class values — sexual permissiveness and self-fashioning, spirituality and emotivism — when really the upper class is also held together by a kind of secret traditionalism, without whose binding power family life ends up coming apart even faster.

This would be very convenient for a traditionalist who didn't want to have to change his view of reality very much! But how is this supposed to work? Who is "selling" these values to the working class? And why are the working class falling for the trick, instead of seeing the "secret traditionalism" of the upper class, or figuring it out for themselves (as the upper class presumably did)?

It sort of sounds like a version of what many traditionalist conservatives say when I bring up the LMH. In one form or another, they tell me that liberalism only works for smart people. Not-so-smart people, they tell me, need simple rules and guidelines, and guiding institutions like churches, in order to live safe, clean, successful, moral, industrious lives. You can't just give them total social freedom and license and let them figure it all out for themselves, the traditionalists tell me.

Well, maybe that's true. Or maybe - and here I am being an incorrigible optimist - it just takes the working class a little more time. Maybe the upper class are the first to encounter new social forces, the first to hop on new social trends, and therefore the first to figure out how to adapt those trends to their needs. Maybe the working class is doing now what the educated class did in the 1970s and 1980s - responding to the advent of the service economy by adopting more equal gender roles. Maybe more-equal gender roles always have the initial effect of disrupting marriage. But maybe working-class people will eventually do the same thing educated people did - realize that, gender roles or no, marriage is a better bet than the alternative.

In other words, maybe what conservatives should be doing is not fighting the transition tooth and nail, but helping speed it through its inevitable Act 2, to its ultimate denouement - the reestablishment of marriage in a new, stronger form.

Fortunately, it looks like we've at least begun the process of convincing Ross Douthat.

56 comments:

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This is a very fascinating post. I guess I should read Charles Murray before commenting (which means I should not comment as I will not read Charles Murray). I really have to know which traditional values "working-class people are more likely to espouse ... and less likely to live" in order to comment intelligently, so I will comment stupidly.

I have to admit that I am not convinced by your identification of liberal and upper class. I consider two other hypotheses.

First on births out of wedlock, divorce and generally fathers not ending up in the same house as their children, I think you should deal with the quite different William Julius Wilson hypothesis. Wilson's hypothesis is that if men can't afford to support their children at a reasonable standard of living, then they give up (and may end up feeling glad they got out of the responsibilities). Here the key change is a (small) decline in the incomes of men without university degrees, and a very large decline in their incomes compared to the average income (oh and also job security and such like).

This story starts with economics.

I'd say another key issue is access to reliable contraception. Notably birth control pills require a prescription and lots of young people don't have health insurance. Here lack of access to reliable contraception will out of wedlock births and will tend to encourage cause anti casual sex norms (because of the real actual genuine observed risks).

Both of these hypotheses might be pleasing to liberals, but neither is the liberal marriage hypothesis.

I think the key issue (where my ignorance is key) is what sort of tradtional values are we discussing ? Are they ideas like one shouldn't cohabit without being married ? One shouldn't have children out of wedlock ? One shouldn't have sex before marriage ?(I'm not sure any woman young enough to get pregnant still thinks that but you never know). Or are they traditional gender roles ? (note the first 3 traditional beliefs do not distinguish male and female at all).

Contraception and sex roles are only part of it, and a small one at that. Liberal economics encourages a fairer distribution of income by means of increased regulation in favor of the worker and unionization to give the worker some economic power. The working class is moving away from "traditional" family values, because those values require better paying jobs than our economy can create with our current politics.

Yes. When you (I mean Douthat and looks like the majority of the commenters) have tried something close to, say, Scandinavian social and economic solutions, re-built your unions, raised minimum wages, evened out the wage structure - the whole social-democratic package really; then if you still have a significant problem with specifically working class malaise and dysfunction, including marriage-related issues, then we can talk. Until you do those things, you are just doing the freshman dorm late-night bull session thing. There are real-world cases that pretty much demystify the entire issue.

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"The quantitative evidence presented by Charles Murray in Coming Apart - that working-class people are more likely to espouse traditional values and less likely to live them - is not in imminent danger of being turned on its head by these anecdotes."

I wonder if an artificial definition of "working class" could be producing this paradox - my personal impression, as an european, is that the working class in the classical meaning - the blue-collar industrial workers - never were particularly "conservative"; for example, specially the males were usually much more anti-religious (or at least anti-clerical) than the middle and upper classes; I suspect that many of the measures used to distinguish working class from the middle class (education, income) could be mixing the working class - middle class axis with the rural - urban axis (where rural is indeed more conservative)-

"Meanwhile, the educated upper middle class, after experimenting with divorce and single parenthood in the 70s and 80s, went back to traditional marriage, while continuing to espouse a belief in gender equality and other liberal ideals."

Sounds like something I read about the Kibbutzim movement in Palestine/Israel.

Ross talks as though liberals believe they know how people should live, just as conservatives seem to think they know how people should live. Most liberals and progressives that I know don't think about this kind of stuff. Mainly they just listen to their spouses and respect their feelings and try to treat them with the respect they deserve, which often means shared parenting, homemaking and work. It's just what people tend to gravitate towards when women actually have a say in the issue.

Who reads his stuff and takes it seriously? It sounds like a stunted Dan Quayle trying to bring back the Reagan/Bush era.

Fun ancedote: a friend of mine's sister has a husband who says that if she ever gets a job, he would divorce her. Because It would be too insulting to his masculinity. Gross, right?

So suffice to say I'm all for the LMH. I think the point about women's earnings being an unpleasant necessity is a good one, and I'll add that under traditional gender roles women were forced to overspecialize in domestic work, leaving their earning potential in the labor market sadly lacking. Which meant that whether your husband was the most wonderful man who ever walked the earth or a filthy lying abusive scumbag, women had economic incentive to stay married. You'll forgive me if I do not weep for some of the marriages lost under liberalism. But going forward I think that the greater economic power of women means that women (and men too) are increasingly being choosier about marriage. And they have the economic security to go through periods of being single. That doesn't mean that anyone wants to be married any less; I mean, everybody wants love right? It just means that people are less willing to put up with anything that's actually making their lives worse.

(1) There are inherent differences between the genders, so that women are generally more suited to raising children.

(2) Within a cooperative partnership, each member should do that thing at which they are best.

(3) Ergo, women will typically stay home with children, and men will typically earn the income for the family.

Of course, proposition (2) is just comparative advantage; any economist is going to sign on to that point. The real pickle is (1). I think that, in their heart of hearts, conservatives who believe that men and women should occupy traditional gender roles believe that men and women are fundamentally different and have skills that make them more suited for particular roles. Any other argument floating around for traditional marriage is either needlessly complicated or unsound. This is the argument; it is coherent and, if its premises are true, it's powerful. Douthat would be an example of the latter, where his argument just doesn't follow.

And that, to me, is what society needs to figure out: are women better at raising kids than men, on average? My prior is, no, the distribution of parenting ability for men and women are probably normal with the same mean. But it just seems silly to talk about anything else. If women are not inherently better at child-rearing, there is no reason for traditional gender roles, period.

Women are better suited to breast-feeding infants. That's about it. Mathematically equal maternal and paternal leave does not therefore strike me as a great progressive cause. I assume that public policy should strongly encourage breastfeeding, Claridges be damned.

Generally speaking, the objective should be to let men and women do what they want as they negotiate their relationships, not impose parité of outcome in everything. If the freely negotiated outcome is that women do 66% of the early childrearing, why not. But a lot rides here on "freely".

James,Women are better at breastfeeding, but the advantages of breastfeeding are exaggerated by its proponents, and the disadvantages are muted. (It isn't good for a baby to feed on almost nothing the first week while Mom figures out that the milk isn't coming. Of course, the chief advantage of breastfeeding comes during the first week or month.)And yes, a lot rides on "freely."

While the modern argument goes: men and women are the same in every way; neither is more suited to housework and children than the other; both should go out to earn income and leave the children in the care of other, unrelated ... women.

Have you ever read Christopher Lasch Noah? Ross is more a memeber of his church than he is a catholic. In any case, as I wrote on Twitter the thing that is so odd about this discussion is that the putative believer Douthat seems to believe in religion purely for its instrumental value as the opiate of the masses. Does truth matter at all here?

While the Scriptural institution of marriage at creation had major elements of blessing for both Adam and Eve, its overarching purpose was to propagate a people that loved God and each other and were highly formed in moral capacity. God could've created a fully populated world in an instant, but His ends of love and righteousness would not have been reached, except through family propagation. That said, the primary reason for failing marriages is that at least since pre-WW2, the Divine purpose of marriage ceased to be widely taught and practiced. This left an American people vulnerable during WW2. The war left a major crack in the foundation of marriage purpose as women were at first coaxed into a formerly male work world. The crack increased gradually after the war until women's participation in the formerly male workforce morphed the pricing structure of the economy into a trap. Now, anyone who attempts to facilitate a consistent and loving instructional home environment via a SAHM will face severe economic persecution. This is the reason for marriage breakdown among the "working class".

The Bible also says it's just fine for a man to have as many wives and concubines as he wants. Check out Abraham, Issac, Jacob and that lot. Even Moses had two wives. The whole one man - one woman thing came in with Alexander a thousand years later. The scriptural thing only works if no one actually reads the bible.

By WW2, American women had been moving into the workforce for maybe 70 years as part of the move towards urbanization. There was a push to kick women out of jobs during the 30s to give men more jobs, but it never went very far. Working women were America's ace in the hole as they took over production jobs while millions of men were at war.

Also pretty easy to argue that the "breakdown" of marriage post WWII had a lot more to do with the fact that women, having a larger degree of economic agency and power were finally in a position to stop putting up with crappy husbands that they depended on to eat. But I guess it could be because we weren't following the dictates of your personal sky daddy correctly anymore too.

Agree with elements of both Kaleberg and MaxUtil...But to use Kaleberg's multi-wife example...Suppose polygamy became the common marriage arrangement in the U.S., and most households consisted of 3,4,5 or more earners—two-income households would be driven under a rock financially speaking. This is where single-income households stand today...and also low income households.

I would add...fed policy in regards to credit magnifies the gulf between upper and lower class marriages. The government effectually mandated two-income lending in 1974 with passage of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act—against bank risk aversion. Up until then lending was primarily based on the husband's income alone, even if the wife worked, minimizing loan risk.

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Noah: "As evidence goes, this is fairly weak. The quantitative evidence presented by Charles Murray in Coming Apart - that working-class people are more likely to espouse traditional values and less likely to live them - is not in imminent danger of being turned on its head by these anecdotes."

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>> Maybe the working class is doing now what the educated class did in the 1970s and 1980s - responding to the advent of the service economy by adopting more equal gender roles. Maybe more-equal gender roles always have the initial effect of disrupting marriage. But maybe working-class people will eventually do the same thing educated people did - realize that, gender roles or no, marriage is a better bet than the alternative.<<

Maybe blacks will start voting Republican? Mia Love is a newly elected black woman Republican. And married (to a white guy). I sure hope more Dem dominated culture supports more poor folk getting married before having kids.

After being in relationship with him for 3 years, he broke up with me, I did everything possible to bring him back but all was in vain, I wanted him back so much because of the love I have for him, I begged him with everything, I made promises but he refused. I explained my problem to someone online and she suggested that I should rather contact a spell caster that could help me cast a spell to bring him back but I am the type that never believed in spell, I had no choice than to try it, I mailed the spell caster, and he told me there was no problem that everything will be okay before three days, that my ex will return to me before three days, he cast the spell and surprisingly in the second day, it was around 4pm. My ex called me, I was so surprised, I answered the call and all he said was that he was so sorry for everything that happened, that he wanted me to return to him, that he loves me so much. I was so happy and went to him, that was how we started living together happily again. Since then, I have made promise that anybody I know that have a relationship problem, I would be of help to such person by referring him or her to the only real and powerful spell caster who helped me with my own problem and who is different from all the fake ones out there. Anybody could need the help of the spell caster, his email is DRAISEDIONSPELLCASTER@GMAIL.COM you can email him if you need his assistance in your relationship or any other problem.

My names are joan jane am from USA i want to use thisopportunity to thank my great doctor who really made my life apleasurable one today. This great Doctor brought my husband back tome, i had 3 lovely kids for my husband, about 3 years ago i and myhusband has been into one quarrel or the other until he finally leftme for one lady. i felt my life was over and my kids thought thenwill never see their father again. i tried to be strong just for thekids but i couldn't control the pains that torments my heart, myheart was filled with sorrows and pains because i was really in lovewith my husband. Every day and night i think of him and i always wish hewill come back to me, until one day i met a good friend of mine thatwas also in a situation like me but her problem was her ex-boyfriendwho she had an unwanted pregnancy for and he refused to takeresponsibility and dumped her. she told me that mine was a small caseand that i shouldn't worry about it at all so i asked her what was thesolution to my problems and she gave me this great man phone numberand his email address. i was doubting if this man was the solution, so icontacted this great man and he told me what to do and i deed themall, he told me to wait for just seven days and that my husband will comecrawling on his kneels just for forgiveness so i faithfully deed whatthis great man asked me to do and for sure after four days i heard aknock on the door, in a great surprise i saw him on his kneels and iwas speechless, when he saw me, all he did was crying and asking mefor forgiveness, from that day, all the pains and sorrows in my heartflew away,since then i and my husband and our lovely kids arehappy.that is why i want to say a big thanks to Doctor okogie. Thisgreat man made me to understand that there is know problem on earth thathas no solution so please if you know that you have this same problemor any problem that is similar, i will advise you to come straight tothis great man. you can email him at drokogiespellcaster7@gmail.com

great spell caster My name is alice Mark, Inever thought I will smile again, My husbandleft me with two kids for one year, All effortto bring him back failed I thought I'm notgoing to see him again not until I met a ladycalled Jesse who told me about a spell castercalled Dr.sambola, She gave me his emailaddress I contacted him and he assured methat within 48hours my husband will comeback to me, In less than 48hours my husbandcame back and started begging forforgiveness saying it is the devils work, soI'm still surprise till now about thismiracle,indeed the most powerful spell casterhave ever experienced in life. Am Posting thisto the Forum in case there is anyone whohas similar problem and still looking for away out. To cure HIV/AID or related illness (1)If you want your ex back.(2) you need adivorce in your relationship(3) You want tobe promoted in your office.(4) You wantwomen & amp; men to run after you.(5) Ifyou want a child.(6) You want to be rich.(7)You want to tie your husband & wife to beyours forever.(8) If you need financialassistance.(9) Herbal care(10) if any wantInterested popular in music (11) if anywant Interested popular in football club12Get you marriage to the lover of your choiceif you need any assistance from him you cancontact him via:emailmichaelibhalugholor@gmail.com or +2348073960324

Hello to you all here, i am Kirsten Wilson. and i here to share to you all my testimony about this man called Dr ABULU , last year i got married to my husband Wilson Jefferson and we both have a body so we were both living happily together ever since we got married until early this year when my husband traveled to Australia for business trip and he told me and kid that he will be coming in two months time and he left , it was just 2 weeks when my husband stopped calling me and the kid so i was surprise and i started to wonder what is wrong until i heard that he is with a lady there and he was even planing to marry her and push me and my child out so i reported to his family but they could not stop him this time he has send me message to live the house before he return so i was so confused and do not know what to do so a friend of my mummy directed me to this man DR ABULU of abuluspiritualtemple@gmail.com, for help and solution and i quickly rush to contact him through his mail and he told me what to do and i did it and after two days mu husband called me and started begging me to forgive and forget all that he must have done to be that he was not his self so that is how i manage to save my relationship so with this great work done for me by DR ABULU i promised to share this to the world in-case any one is there with similar problems should contact him as well for solution and i know you must be saved okayemail;abuluspiritualtemple@gmail.comwebsite;abuluspiritualtemple.webs.comKIRSTEN WILSON

No one could have ever made me believe that the letter I'm about to write would actually one day be written. I was the world’s biggest sceptic. I never believed in magic spells or anything like that, but I was told by a reliable source (a very close co-worker) that Dr Marvel is a very dedicated, gifted, and talented person, and after much “cajoling,” she (my co-worker) got me to visit this website http://extremespellhome.webs.com. It was one of the best things I have ever done. My love life was in shambles; I had been through two divorces and was on the brink of a third. I just couldn't face another divorce, and I wanted to try harder to make our relationship work, but my husband didn't seem to care. So, with nothing but my pride to lose, I checked it out. I was flabbergasted. Dr Marvel is for REAL. He did whatever magic he does, and lo and behold – no more than TWO DAYS later, I had my husband back! It was like a miracle! He suddenly wanted to go to marriage counselling, and we’re doing very, very well, on the road to recovery! Love and Many Blessings Back to You! Contact Dr Marvel through his website http://extremespellhome.webs.com or his email on extremespellhome@hotmail.com or extremespellhome@gmail.com.

No one could have ever made me believe that the letter I'm about to write would actually one day be written. I was the world’s biggest sceptic. I never believed in magic spells or anything like that, but I was told by a reliable source (a very close co-worker) that Dr Marvel is a very dedicated, gifted, and talented person, and after much “cajoling,” she (my co-worker) got me to visit this website http://extremespellhome.webs.com. It was one of the best things I have ever done. My love life was in shambles; I had been through two divorces and was on the brink of a third. I just couldn't face another divorce, and I wanted to try harder to make our relationship work, but my husband didn't seem to care. So, with nothing but my pride to lose, I checked it out. I was flabbergasted. Dr Marvel is for REAL. He did whatever magic he does, and lo and behold – no more than TWO DAYS later, I had my husband back! It was like a miracle! He suddenly wanted to go to marriage counselling, and we’re doing very, very well, on the road to recovery! Love and Many Blessings Back to You! Contact Dr Marvel through his website http://extremespellhome.webs.com or his email on extremespellhome@hotmail.com or extremespellhome@gmail.com.

No one could have ever made me believe that the letter I'm about to write would actually one day be written. I was the world’s biggest sceptic. I never believed in magic spells or anything like that, but I was told by a reliable source (a very close co-worker) that Dr Marvel is a very dedicated, gifted, and talented person, and after much “cajoling,” she (my co-worker) got me to visit this website http://extremespellhome.webs.com. It was one of the best things I have ever done. My love life was in shambles; I had been through two divorces and was on the brink of a third. I just couldn't face another divorce, and I wanted to try harder to make our relationship work, but my husband didn't seem to care. So, with nothing but my pride to lose, I checked it out. I was flabbergasted. Dr Marvel is for REAL. He did whatever magic he does, and lo and behold – no more than TWO DAYS later, I had my husband back! It was like a miracle! He suddenly wanted to go to marriage counselling, and we’re doing very, very well, on the road to recovery! Love and Many Blessings Back to You! Contact Dr Marvel through his website http://extremespellhome.webs.com or his email on extremespellhome@hotmail.com or extremespellhome@gmail.com.

Hello to every one out here, am here to share the unexpected miracle that happened to me three days ago, My name is Edwin Wallace i live in United State,and I`m happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she did not love me anymore So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.(drakugbespellhome@gmail.com}, So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day what an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who did not call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster . So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website {drakugbespellhome@gmail.com},i f you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to "bringing your ex back. So thanks to Dr clement for bringing back my wife,and brought great joy to my family once again.(drakugbespellhome@gmail.com }, Thanks..

My name is Finsh from Belgium and i am 33 years old, I must say that since my whole life i have never seen anything that work so fast and so powerful like Dr.Zabaza spell. I used to have problems with my wife and it has never result for her to park out but this very day we just had a little quarrel as usually but i was surprise to see her pack her things and leave the house but just after i contacted Dr.Zabaza through these information +2348182620374, zabaza.logan@yahoo.com or through website at www.zabazalogan.webs.com My wife who has packed things out of my house for over 14 days came back to me and was pleading for me to accept her back

Hello my good people, i want to let you know that there are so many scam in the net, so you have to be careful, with the spell caster you contact okay, My name is Linda Marian from USA I have to give this miraculous testimony, which is still unbelievable to me until now. I had a problem with my husband 4years ago, which lead to our break up. when he broke up with me, I was not my self again, i felt so empty inside me, my love and financial situation became worst, until a close friend of mine called sandy told me about a spell caster who helped her in the same problem, his name is Dr AJACAS. she tell me so much about the Dr that help her, and i all so email Dr AJACAS the spell caster and i told him my problem and i did what he ask me to do, and he told me that i should not worry my self that it will only take one day for he to cast the spell that will bring he back, Before i knew what was happening my husband look for my number and called me and told me that he was coming back to me in 2days and i was so happy to have him back to me. We have two kids together and we are happy. Thanks to Dr AJACAS for saving my relationship and for also saving others own too. continue your good work sir, If you are interested to contact him and testify this blessings like me, the great spell caster email address is (ajacastruelovespell@gmail.com) you are the best among all the spell caster online I hope you see my testimonies and also pray for my family too.(ajacastruelovespell@gmail.com)

Noah, what are you including in your definition of liberal values? It's likely that some values promote traditional marriages and some weaken them. Take the case of premarital sex: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/21/more-sexual-partners-unhappy-marriage_n_5698440.html. Also, see here on the correlation between number of premarital partners and divorce: http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/09/sexual-partner-divorce-risk.html

Had a huge bust up with my partner Bennett, phoned Dr. Grea in tears, he said he could help, I must admit, I was very, very skeptical as didn't really believe he would be back after all he said, but it was just a few days when he phoned and asked to come over to talk, we talked and talked and the silly misunderstanding was all forgiven and we are back together now for good, all thanks to Dr. Grea, I would highly recommend his services, they do really, really work. Get to him via: Re_unifyexlove@outlook.com or visit his website on: http://reunifyexlove.webs.com.

Hello friends, an awesome and amazing testimony about a Great spell caster i really love to share. My name is Wilson Felix from the Canada. Getting my wife back is what i least expected and could never imagine. I and my wife have been married for five years and we have been living happily but all of a sudden she changed completely and turned away from me and i never knew what was going on, i tried to ask her but she refused to tell me what the problem is, and as time went on she sought for a divorce. I was so worried and confused, and i did all my possible best to get her back but it wasn't easy, i thought all hope was lost, and during my search for a way out, a friend of mine who had similar problem told me about a great spell caster called Dr OSAUYI who helped him get back his wife also. I never believe in spell casting in my entire life or a magic because i never thought it will work but i tried to give this man a chance and to my greatest surprise, He cast a spell to bring her back, but today we are back together into a lovely home with three beautiful kids. We are happy together again and i am using this opportunity to tell anyone passing similar situation to contact him on OSAUYILOVESPELL@YAHOO.COM OR YOU CAN CALL HIS CELL PHONE and you will be the next to tell a new testimony

Any time i see the name Dr.Zabaza i always put a smile on my face because my husband parked his things out of the house and choose to stay with his lover which made me so sad to the extend i was no longer thinking straight but when i read some good reviews about Dr.Zabaza then i was able to contact him through these details +2348182620374 or via email: zabaza.logan@yahoo.com And through the help of Dr.Zabaza my husband quit his relationship with his lover and he is now fully back to the house...

Dear friends out there, my name is Berra Christopher from united states i had a problem with my husband 5months ago, which lead to our break up. when he broke up with me, i was not my self again, i felt so empty inside me. until a friend of mine Rebbecca told me about a spell caster who helped her in the same problem too. i emailed Dr uduga the spell caster and i told him my problem and i did what he asked of me, to cut the long story short. before i knew what was happening my husband gave me a call and told me that he was coming back to me in just 2days and was so happy to have him back to me. we had our two kids together for the Xmas and New Year and we are happy with our selves. thanks to Dr uduga for saving my relationship and for also saving others own too thank you very much. continue your good work dr uduga the great spell caster, if help is needed email address : udugatempleofsolution@gmail.com or his cell number +2348153592618

I was married for 8years with out any child,because of this my husband start acting very strange at home,coming home late and not spending time with me any more.So i became very sad and lost in life because my doctor told me there is no way for me to get pregnant this really make life so hard for me and my family.my sister in law told me about Dr. isaac from the Internet,how he has helped people with this similar problem that i am going through so i contacted him and explain to him.he cast a spell and it was a miracle three days later my husband can back to apologize for all he has done and told me he is fully ready to support me in any thing i want,few month later i got pregnant and gave birth to twins (girls) we are happy with ourselves. Thanks to Dr. isaac for saving my relationship and for also saving others too. continue your good work, If you are interested to contact him and testify this blessings like me, the great spell caster email address:drisaachelpcenter@gmail. comMarisa Martin

I'm Davis brown from USA. My wife left me for no reason on 13th of June 2010. She moved in with another man, I felt like killing myself and I've tried so many spell casters but all to no avail. My life was very bitter and sorrowful. Then one day, a friend of mine told me about this spell caster called DR OGBIDI who helped her on her own situation when her husband left her. But at first i didn't believe it because i' have tested so many of them and it didn't work. she begged me further so I decided to try this spell caster called DR OGBIDI . I contacted him and i told him my problems and gave him all the necessary information he required. He just laughed and told me never to worry that my WIFE will call me back in less than two days and i believed, and after he has finished casting the spell my WIFE called me and started begging. She apologized and came back to me crying for a second chance. Today i and my wife and my two lovely kids are living happily like never before. I can really say that this spell caster is powerful because of his work my wife is home again. I'm now a very happy man and ever since she has shown me love like never before. Thank you DR OGBIDI I will forever be grateful to you. You can reach him on his email: drogbidisolutionhome@gmail.com or drogbidisolutionhome@yahoo.co.uk he will solve any problem you are facing now. Just contact him and see his work. once again thank you DR OGBIDI

my name is Annmarie from CANADA, I want to thank the great EFE for what he did for me he brought happiness back into my life. My boyfriend left me and told me is over I was devastated as I loved him so much I decided to contact a spelI caster and I met a friend who told me of a great doctor and I decided to contact him and he told me in three days my boyfriend will call me and beg me to acept him I thought he was joking in three days everything happened as he said I am so happy now.You can also contact him at; hivspelltemple@gmail.com

My name is Andrea Rose, am from England, what a wonderful and a straight forward spell caster that has brought back joy and happiness into my life after i saw a post on how he helped a lady called Cassandra,i decided to contact him for help when i told this God sent man Dr okoror on how my lover left me for 2 years without calling nor texting me,When i shared this my sad experience with Dr okoror he said everything would be okay within 2 days i was like am i sure what this man is saying is real,So i decided to give a try and i what even surprised me the most at first i was also thinking he was a scam i taught he was like other spell caster who come online to add pain to peoples pain not knowing there feelings but to make money,But this great man Dr okoror is never like that his own is for good and make people to be happy with the one they love,Am just so happy,Even before the 3 days i just got a call from a man who has left me for 2 years saying he his sorry and that he wants me back to his life i was so happy,He invited me for a dinner which i meant him there and we bought talked and he said he wants to prove that he would never leave me for any other lady he engaged me and also make me had access to all his account am so happy all thanks goes to this great man Dr okoror a man who has brought back joy to my life,Please friends that needs help i would advice and swear that Dr okoror is the right man and not those fake ones who are online to make money and not to help here is Dr okoror "his private email: okororspell@outlook.com

My name is elizabeth james and am from usa, I had relationship struggles in the past which led to the divorce with my first and truly loved husband. After i and my ex husband got divorced, i had a chance to re-marry again and just 2 years of my second marriage there was another breakup which almost killed me emotionally. I stayed for another one year been unmarried and a single mother. Honestly I wasn't really happy always, there was a time i saw my first husbands photo and i realized how much i loved him and have missed him. I tried to get to him but i was told that he moved to Spain and i may never see him again. I wept bitterly that night thinking i have lost the only man that i have had so much love for. I asked some friends for advise on what to do and a friend of mine gave me prophet odiba of Permanent Spell Casts i consulted him and to his very best with his powerful voodoos he helped me with a love spell and returned my ex husband back to me in 3 days. Am now happily living with my first husband and we are married again. You are a man of your word prophet odiba, thanks and i appreciate all the help you have rendered me. Please contact this powerful spell caster too via email prophetodiba@gmail.com