The benefit of arcade stick over a controller

So I've been looking around for the answer to this question for a while, but can't seem to find anything decisive. If it's already been posted I apologize ( i'm sure it has, just can't seem to find it)

I've used a controller my entire life, I had never played Street fighter in an arcade until SF4, and when I did, well that was an experience.

So very recently, I picked up the TE SSF4 stick that just came out. I've gotten to the point where I can do most moves with a good amount of consistency. But regardless of how good I'm getting with it, it just doesn't feel as comfortable as the controller to me.
It's not the buttons, it's the Stick itself. I like the buttons on the TE stick, they feel nice and having them all right there is a great feeling, but the stick just doesn't feel as good to me as the dpas on my PS3 controller.

So all of that leads me to my question. Is there a real benefit to using a stick VS a controller? Is it possible to be tournament viable with a controller at all ? Or should I just suck it up and "Stick" with it?

"Tournament Viable"... sort of. There are instances of pad players placing high at major tournaments. But many of those eventually transfer over to sticks.

As to why sticks are better than pads... the answer is that your wrist+arms+fingers are much more dextrous than your thumbs. Getting comfortable takes a while, but the overwhelming majority of players achieve a technical competency on an arcade stick far greater than what they could on a pad.

SF4 is the first game I've ever used a stick for, and I'm never going back.

1

Doctrine DarkPutting my Key in the IgnitionJoined: October 2008Posts: 4,173✭✭✭✭✭

Both have their pro's and con's. A stick's con can mainly be for adjustment after being on a pad for so long; so, not many con's there.

I only played on a stick at a friends house, so I'm a primary pad player. I do find it easier to pull off certain moves on a stick, though. Like, playing Guile (In HD Remix) is a lot easier on a stick than on a pad, because it eliminates blisters, which I get from a standard pad; and overall, a stick is better for overall control, in my opinion. I think you should stick with it and practice more; don't give it up so quickly.

I understand that the wrist is more dextrous than the thumb, but it seems to be I can do everything directional wise just fine with the thumb, my biggest problem was only ever doing links and not being able to plink on a controller very effectively was what originally got me to move to a stick in the first place. Is there some kind of fatty Pad+Arcade hybrid ? LOL Like a big ole arcade stick with the buttons but on the left has a grippable dpad ?

I started playing SF4 on a MadCatz fightpad. Then I bought a Marvel TE stick for my 20th birthday and never looked back.

Things that got easier for me were stuff like super jumping, links, moves like Air Tatsu, anything that required a quick move from one side of the stick to the other I could do with more consistency. I think I even got smarter by playing on it. Plus there's enough resources out there for you to customize your stick and make it your own - artwork, button mods, stick mods, etc.

That's not to say pad players aren't legit (see: SmoothViper and Shizza as examples) but if you're willing to practice with it, and have the money, try playing stick.

If you honestly don't like the stick. I suggest you atleast pick up the Madcatz fightpad. I bought one just cos they were dirt cheap and before using this I hadn't played on pad. And suprisingly I was able to do quite a few combos on it easily without much practise. They are really comfortable and having all 6 buttons there is always a plus.

If you honestly don't like the stick. I suggest you atleast pick up the Madcatz fightpad. I bought one just cos they were dirt cheap and before using this I hadn't played on pad. And suprisingly I was able to do quite a few combos on it easily without much practise. They are really comfortable and having all 6 buttons there is always a plus.

The Fightpad is severely underrated. I just hate how easy it breaks, then again, that's MadCatz for you.

If you need alternatives to that, they would be the Hori FC3 pad for PS3 (which is wired and therefore less of a hassle at tournaments) and the EX2 Pad for Xbox 360. And if you're really lucky you can snag a Sega Saturn pad for PS2 - the real one, but it's rare and expensive as hell nowadays.

I actually have a fight pad, but it's got this wierd problem where a direction will stick. Which really causes me problems when I let go of the dpad and continue to walk forward. Also, i was just holding it like a regular controller, are you supposed to do the buttons on a fight pad like you would on a stick ?

You most likely have a faulty controller because that doesn't happen with mine or anyone elses I've seen and honestly the Dpad on that thing is amazing. And you hold it like a regular pad (or however you want really it doesn't matter honestly as long as your comfortable)

Oh and what blinky said about not being able to do super jumps and whatnot that may be the case for him but not everyone. I can do super jump cancels etc fine on pad. In fact I can land most of C.Vipers combos more consistently on pad than stick and I've been playing stick for ages.

A problem with playing on a pad is that you need to be comfortable playing on different types of pad or you might be screwed when you show up to a tournament and aren't familiar with the controller of the console the game is being played on. With a stick this isn't a problem, as your stick skills will carry over to any console you play on.

SF4 has rather lenient motions on purpose so pad players can play and even keyboard:O. But with pad can you do mk hands, pianoing input, i don't play pad(i have played on ps3 controller i assume pad is like 10^10 times better) but if experienced pad players can't do that on a 100/99% level then there's something deficient with the pad imo.

All you need to know is the facts, the joystick on why arcade sticks are awesome. The joystick springs back to neutral really well, and you just are much more in controll than a controller. Big buttons makes it good to do throw/FA and Triple K/P moves, SF4 is catered to many styles with pads being one of them, and in serious play of course sticks are the universal thing. Everything has a learning curve, the stick will take a while to get use to, and then a long while to improve your execution so you can do anything just by knowing the inputs of a complex combo/move.

The question is how does the stick on pads compare to ps3 stock standard controller?

the top reason for me is arcade sticks have been aracade sticks since the beggining of gaming. Controllers are always going to be changing and fucking around, so the real advantage imo is that you can get comfortable with an arcade stick and not have to worry about it changing the next console generation.

I just wanted to chime in here. First of all I used to play SF II on an old beat up SNES back in the day. Once I moved to the PSX i continued using the pad, I was even beating my partners who'd use their sticks. Most folks that I know use the sticks to replicate the arcade "feel". Trying to crossover after playing with a pad has somewhat of a learning curve attached and most get frustrated and return to the pad. I think its a matter of personal preference and skill. I know a kid who plays with 'gief that is a beast with a pad. He claims the pad allows him to hit those 360 and 720 motions easier. In SF IV, I have noticed the game is more forgiving and it seems that using a stick can be easier than with other games (like VF5). So in the end its just about what you feel comfy with, but remember a pad is a pad; and a stick is most definitely a weapon.--peace, love, and soul!! GD357

Learn stick so you don't go "oh, shit" when you have to play on the 360 or in the arcade.

Missing Person - There should be a middle ground. But one side refuses to acknowledge the point that being a gamer, being against misogyny, and being for journalistic professionalism and integrity are NOT mutually exclusive, because to concede that would mean they would have to concede that journalistic integrity should be attained and thus they would have to fess up.

This talk about having different pads on consoles isn't really an issue if you use a Madcatz fightpad. And buying two of those for each console would be cheaper than buying a decent stick for one console. To me that just seems like a pointless argument. The arcade yeah I guess so but do you actually play in the arcade? Are you ever going to seriously? Don't use a stick just because everybody uses one and says it's better. Use what feels comfortable to you. As long as you put in the practise there aren't going to be many benefits of having a stick instead of a pad.

This talk about having different pads on consoles isn't really an issue if you use a Madcatz fightpad. And buying two of those for each console would be cheaper than buying a decent stick for one console. To me that just seems like a pointless argument. The arcade yeah I guess so but do you actually play in the arcade? Are you ever going to seriously? Don't use a stick just because everybody uses one and says it's better. Use what feels comfortable to you. As long as you put in the practise there aren't going to be many benefits of having a stick instead of a pad.

See, I'm getting to the point where I am inclined to follow this logic. But I'm worried. I've been getting really into SF lately and especially with the release of super coming up. I want to start competing. I just don't know if I could handle getting stomped just because I don't use a stick. I know that you can't really piano roll or Plink very well on a pad, but is that going to be a deal breaker in a tourney ? Am i going to show up with my little chun li fight pad and go home crying, just because I can't use a stick effectively?

I mean, I'm honestly trying. I went and bought the 70 dollar madcatz stick first, didn't really dig it too much. Then i got ahold of one of the new SSF4 TE sticks, and It feels alot better. I'm fairly consistent with the moves, but it just feels so different. I've been using it easily 8-12 hours per day for the past week, but I'll be honest, it feels like I'm getting worse as a player, rather than better. When I was using my pad / controller, I could quite regularly win championships in the g2 bracket with very little difficulty. Since I started using the stick, I think I've won maybe 2. And I'm not talking about getting stomped by a better player, I'm talking about scrub ken's and ryu's that spam fireballs and DP's. Again, like I said. I can do my moves just fine, but I feel so much slower, and it's just plain frustrating.

So the root of the question really is. Am I going to screwed as a tourney player just because I can't use a stick ?

See, I'm getting to the point where I am inclined to follow this logic. But I'm worried. I've been getting really into SF lately and especially with the release of super coming up. I want to start competing. I just don't know if I could handle getting stomped just because I don't use a stick. I know that you can't really piano roll or Plink very well on a pad, but is that going to be a deal breaker in a tourney ? Am i going to show up with my little chun li fight pad and go home crying, just because I can't use a stick effectively?

I mean, I'm honestly trying. I went and bought the 70 dollar madcatz stick first, didn't really dig it too much. Then i got ahold of one of the new SSF4 TE sticks, and It feels alot better. I'm fairly consistent with the moves, but it just feels so different. I've been using it easily 8-12 hours per day for the past week, but I'll be honest, it feels like I'm getting worse as a player, rather than better. When I was using my pad / controller, I could quite regularly win championships in the g2 bracket with very little difficulty. Since I started using the stick, I think I've won maybe 2. And I'm not talking about getting stomped by a better player, I'm talking about scrub ken's and ryu's that spam fireballs and DP's. Again, like I said. I can do my moves just fine, but I feel so much slower, and it's just plain frustrating.

So the root of the question really is. Am I going to screwed as a tourney player just because I can't use a stick ?

It will take longer than a week to get used to it. It will take months, but once you get comfortable with it it will feel great. It just feels really awkward at first. I went through the exact same thing, and almost went back to pad, but in the end I am glad I stuck with the stick. Just expect it to take a while.

I just started learning to play competitively with SF4 also, and I've managed to do decent in tournaments ( 4-2 ) or better using a pad. I used a stick for 6 or so months, and I just came to realization anything I wanted to do on a stick, I could do on a pad, except for maybe cr.lp to hhs with Honda, but oh well.

Just go with what you feel like....your going to see more sticks at top spots cause they are higher represented, but if you can do every combo or link your character needs to do on a pad, then no need to feel pressure to change.

This talk about having different pads on consoles isn't really an issue if you use a Madcatz fightpad. And buying two of those for each console would be cheaper than buying a decent stick for one console. To me that just seems like a pointless argument. The arcade yeah I guess so but do you actually play in the arcade? Are you ever going to seriously? Don't use a stick just because everybody uses one and says it's better. Use what feels comfortable to you. As long as you put in the practise there aren't going to be many benefits of having a stick instead of a pad.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention plinking, double tapping, and pianoing being very good joystick benefits.

By the way, I do play on arcade cabinets regularly enough to warrant learning to play on stick. (shout out to Bobby's World!)

Missing Person - There should be a middle ground. But one side refuses to acknowledge the point that being a gamer, being against misogyny, and being for journalistic professionalism and integrity are NOT mutually exclusive, because to concede that would mean they would have to concede that journalistic integrity should be attained and thus they would have to fess up.

not having played a stick yet (should be here any day) I am looking forward to learning a few of the higher end techniques that doing with a controller just seems terrible (kara throw with ken for example. 20% accuracy for me tops on my ps3 control) I am also hoping using a control style ive never used before will help me break a few bad habits (as long as I dont relearn those habits with the stick), such as my tendancy to go for an ex move even when its not really worth wasting the bar.

Not really helping either way toward the topic, but thats my reason for wanting one.

PS: I also cant do charge characters for crap on a dpad. Balrog especially, his moves have such minor differences in execution and the buttons are so sensitive to direction it just seems that i punch randomly when I play him.

i went from pad to stick and I got worlds better. I don't jump on accident, i can fadc more effeciently (read: all the time) i can do every move consistently and the joystick is less of a strain cause i'm not fighting with it.

SSF4/T6/BB:CS/GMOW/GG/SSF2T/3S/MvC2/TvC/VF5/SSB/SF1/VS/MB/KOF/WJ/SFA/
Like I'm good at all that shit, lol.

I use pad. Dont hate me! Iv'e enjoyed the Alphas and been to many local tournaments on arcade machines. At home its always been pad though. Now with SF4 and the fightsticks I still went with the pad. I'm gonna get a fightstick eventually but for now...pad.

See, I'm getting to the point where I am inclined to follow this logic. But I'm worried. I've been getting really into SF lately and especially with the release of super coming up. I want to start competing. I just don't know if I could handle getting stomped just because I don't use a stick. I know that you can't really piano roll or Plink very well on a pad, but is that going to be a deal breaker in a tourney ? Am i going to show up with my little chun li fight pad and go home crying, just because I can't use a stick effectively?

I mean, I'm honestly trying. I went and bought the 70 dollar madcatz stick first, didn't really dig it too much. Then i got ahold of one of the new SSF4 TE sticks, and It feels alot better. I'm fairly consistent with the moves, but it just feels so different. I've been using it easily 8-12 hours per day for the past week, but I'll be honest, it feels like I'm getting worse as a player, rather than better. When I was using my pad / controller, I could quite regularly win championships in the g2 bracket with very little difficulty. Since I started using the stick, I think I've won maybe 2. And I'm not talking about getting stomped by a better player, I'm talking about scrub ken's and ryu's that spam fireballs and DP's. Again, like I said. I can do my moves just fine, but I feel so much slower, and it's just plain frustrating.

So the root of the question really is. Am I going to screwed as a tourney player just because I can't use a stick ?

Well as someone else has already mentioned it's going to take longer than a week to get to the same level you are on with pad. And even though you're practising 8-12 hours (which I think is a bit too much anyway) are you sure you're practising the right things? Cos I can see how during that time you could get bored really easily and just do stuff that isn't really helping. It really isn't about how long you practise but what you practise.

Also the stick does have the benefit of some of the "higher level" techniques like plinking and pianoing (but you can piano on a madcatz fightpad easily if you just slide your thumb) etc. But again what those techniques accomplish you can do that on a pad. My advice would be to keep playing on the stick for a little while longer (maybe another couple of weeks-month?) and if you still don't like it and don't feel comfortable on it go to pad. At least that way you won't have any regrets? And there will be no more "what if"s and "if only"s

There are pros and cons for both, but there are very little cons playing on stick, and many cons on pad in my opinion.

Some pad cons:

Some Kara's are nearly impossible/painful on pad
Ex moves are inherently more difficult. Without 3p 3k
Some combos become very difficult because the timing requires you to move your thumb and not just use a finger.
No double tapping unless you are playing claw style
Combos that use mash inputs are difficult, like honda hands combos, and mk xx hands for Gen, Electricity links for blanka.
Arcade tournaments will be a no go for you.
You'll need a converter for the opposite console.
Plinking is harder/impossible for certain combos, Unless you play claw hand.

Some cons for stick:

Learning curve at the beginning.
The time it takes to input directionals is a little slower for certain inputs.
A little more room for error in execution because of your other fingers.
Sticks can be expensive.
You'll need a converter for the opposite console, Unless you dual mod.

This is just my opinion / experiences, I could be wrong on either and there are probably a lot more cons for both.
I'd say the biggest con for stick and the only thing that should change your mind about getting one is the fact that they are pricey in comparison to pads.

The main problem here is the learning curve for sure. I recently got an arcade just to see how it feels and knowing there are some things, execution wise, that are easier to do and get out with the stick than a pad or controller. But when I first got the stick I just played around with the feeling of holding the stick and buttons in a manner that was comfortable and practical to getting moves out. But as soon as I put SF4 in and went into practice mode it felt like I was starting from square one again. Some of the simpler moves I couldn't get out and would jump for random reasons. Since then I've slowly gotten more used to it and bringing my game higher.

The main thing here is that you need to remember the learning curve and it's not the same as the pad when it comes to the feeling of it. If you're serious about getting used to the stick you really need to practice the small things, the fundamentals. Don't go right into crazy FADC moves, start of with the simple quarter circle motions and such. Once you can get those to come out consistently at any time you want you can move up to some combos and so on. Moving from one controller mode to another takes time to learn and you just need to work you're way back up again. It's obviously going to have a different feeling and possible "uncomfortable" feeling because of the time spent with the pad VS the stick.

I started out as a pad player, like most growing up on old consoles. But I had and would frequently play games like Primal Rage at the local bowling ally, so I became comfortable with a stick but preferred pad. When SF4 came out I could not play on a pad for the life of me, I made the switch to stick and have since stayed with stick. The other day for shits and giggles I was playing with a friend and decided to use the crappy xbox dpad. I did surprisingly well and it felt pretty comfortable (I do main Fei Long). Though I still think I will stay with a stick, even though I surprised myself with how well I was doing with that crappy pad. Either way with the plethora of qcf motions in this game there will always be those characters that work pretty damn well with pad.

Am I the only person in the universe who moved from stick to pad??
I started on sticks in arcade, then later, I found that I liked pad more, Granted, I have bony callous covered thumbs and fingers so blisters are a non-issue but, still.
I have never had problems with unintended jumps on either one... dunno where thats coming from.
I can do both, and despite all these people saying "PADS ARE FER TEH NOOBS!" and "YOU CANT KARA ON PAD!"
I havent found any technique that presents that much difficulty,
I can kara-green hand and kara throw just fine , and standing 360 with no trouble. (cant consistently standing 720 with either controller)
I think there is this huge bias, against pads for a couple reasons:
1.Most pads arent that good. most people assume that every pad is just as awful as the original super nintendo controller.
2.Sticks came first, and arcade players frequently decry pads as inauthentic.

360 PADS ARE TRASH! DO NOT BASE YOUR OPINIONS OF PADS ON THEM! ITS LIKE BASING YOUR OPINION OF JOYSTICKS ON A CRUSTY OLD STICK THAT LEANS TO THE RIGHT, AND ONLY HAS TWO OUT OF SIX WORKING BUTTONS.

I used to play on stick (Stopped for a while because it broke and I couldn't be arsed fixed it) but play pad now.
Pad...on terms of proper, responsive execution...urgh. It also turns Leniency into "Wtf I didn't want that to come out!!!" if you're like me and use a D-pad.

I play charge characters but it really doesn't stop Vega deciding to do a Scarlet terror when I slide from down back to down-forward too quick for a cosmic heel and Bison doing teleport instead of his ultra...both problems I never had on a stick.
I can kara, do moves fine, but occasionally I get blips like the ones I just mentioned.

I tried stick once when I bought a hori EX2 and it frustrated the hell out of me. I went back to pad, I've been using ps2 pad since I've been playing 3s. I wanna learn stick just for the sake of convenience but I don't think I have what it takes to buckle down and learn it.

Also 150 is a lot to waste for something that will frustrate the living fuck out of you. Even the 70 dollar one is a bit on the expensive side.

The most beautiful rose is cultivated in the blood of those who fall before me.
SFV: Vega.
3S:Ibuki, Yang, Ryu
KOF 98:Kyo/Iori/O.Chris
I play to learn, because you can't win if you don't know shit.
July, 16 1991: That's when the beat dropped.
I don't like what Capcom did to Ibuki in Street Fighter V. Fuck you, Capcom.
R.I.P Bankroll Fresh

I'm not calling the stick of waste. I'm saying it's a waste of money if you spend it on something that will frustrate you and drive you insane.

The most beautiful rose is cultivated in the blood of those who fall before me.
SFV: Vega.
3S:Ibuki, Yang, Ryu
KOF 98:Kyo/Iori/O.Chris
I play to learn, because you can't win if you don't know shit.
July, 16 1991: That's when the beat dropped.
I don't like what Capcom did to Ibuki in Street Fighter V. Fuck you, Capcom.
R.I.P Bankroll Fresh

My stick frustrated me for a total of like 2 hours ha. But when I shifted over to a stick I started playing a lot of 3s which I never played before, so I really had no idea what my abilities were in the game so I never got frustrated when I couldn't do something, because there WAS nothing I could do before.

When someone says that using a stick frustrates them, the first question to ask them is how much time did they spend using it?

It will only frustrate you if you go in with the misconception that you will immediately feel the benefits and perform a lot better.

I'll admit that I used it for 3 days and gave up.

The most beautiful rose is cultivated in the blood of those who fall before me.
SFV: Vega.
3S:Ibuki, Yang, Ryu
KOF 98:Kyo/Iori/O.Chris
I play to learn, because you can't win if you don't know shit.
July, 16 1991: That's when the beat dropped.
I don't like what Capcom did to Ibuki in Street Fighter V. Fuck you, Capcom.
R.I.P Bankroll Fresh

0

Flashy NightsPartial to long stories.Joined: November 2009Posts: 4,333✭✭✭

Im getting my stick tomorrow (a SSFIV Black tis the sex stick) but I can tell you my experience with Pad, Im a Dictator main I get out all my moves just fine, (Except for dash ultra & super you just can't do it on a PS3 controller) Hell just today I received a few Msg stating....stuff like

Ryu playa:Your on a stick Huh?

Me:No, Im on Pad.

Ryu playa:Bullshit! you gain charge way to fast! FUCKER!

Sagat Player:you must have worn down your stick or snapped it many time with all that speed chagrin.

Me:No, Im on a PS3 con.

Sagat Player:...........lies.....everything is lies!

Pad is coo nothing wrong with it, but I just feel limited while using it even when I win, I feel like I can't get my moves out fast enough, and I can't get any better with it, I've pushed my thumbs to there limits I can't go any further. I feel like the use of my full hands will give me so much more. No more thumb abuse! But I guess that kind of thinking is due to the fact I use to head out to the arcades with my older brahs and watch em bang buttons and whip ass, and get my ass handed to me.

One thing all pad users will agree on is that it kills your thumb. Those thumb protectors will be put to good use once Super drops.^_^

Oh god yes the pain. I find the super part easy for Bison, though things I find hard you probably find easy and vice versa XD.
I've had so many blisters from playing using the D-pad you would not believe.

From remembering playing on a stick and how I am now, I can charge a lot quicker on a pad because there's less space to have to go back to on a charge.So you can just flick your thumb back.

Though I'm with you on this, ordered a TE stick, can't wait to get cracking on it. It's going to be a long learning curve for me XD

Forgetting about execution for a second, playing stick makes it much easier to switch between platforms. People use the same kind of sticks for ps2, 360, ps3, arcade, you name it. Pads are almost always very different.

zoning took an indefinite hiatus

0

Flashy NightsPartial to long stories.Joined: November 2009Posts: 4,333✭✭✭

One thing all pad users will agree on is that it kills your thumb. Those thumb protectors will be put to good use once Super drops.^_^

I never understood this. I never got blisters. I've been only playing on pad. I've played GG for like 6 hours straight at time. More than once. Nothing. Did 50 matches sessions in ST, 40+ in KOF, 40+ in GG and nothing. How are you guys getting blisters?

Has anyone thanked you today for not setting the whole world on fire?

They
should. I won't. I advocate setting the world on fire. But morons who
actually like it, benefit from society, would do well to thank you and
men like you for not visiting hell upon them.

"You don't know what it's like to hate. To have your entire life become nothing more than an expression of hate. Nothing else matters. Nothing else can compare. Or taste as sweet."

Ok, so now I've got another question, as I'm fairly new to posting on the SRK forums and couldn't seem to find what I was looking for. Are there a group of modders / Stick builders around here that can be commissioned to make custom sticks.
I've got this idea for a arcade / pad hybrid that I think would be phenomenal for my style of play. I am fairly sure that noone makes this yet, as it's pretty much impractical. But, as far as I can tell, the main benefit on the stick comes from the buttons. It's all about having the buttons all right there for you. I'm looking to have a Half pad half arcade controller made. (if it's even possible)

Just imagine it like this .. Right to the left of the buttons on your stick, the thing is pretty much cut in half , and then on that side, like ... the left half of a ps3 controller or madcatz fight pad sticks out. The whole left side of the controller, so you can grip it. It's like a REALLY big madcatz fight pad. It seem silly, but I can imagine doing really well with something like this. Then dual mod it so that it'll work with ps3 and Xbox, and you could use it at tournaments.

Again, i know nothing about modding or if that's even possible or not, but if there are any dedicated modders around or you guys could point me to the right place, that'd be fantastic.