From gwolf@gwolf.org Fri Mar 10 07:16:02 2006
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:16:02 -0600
From: Gunnar Wolf
To: Agnieszka pixelgirl Czajkowska ,
Ofelia Iszaevich
Cc: Gabriela Manjarrez ,
Andreas Schuldei
Subject: T-shirts for Debconf
Message-ID: <20060310131602.GA2941@gwolf.org>
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Hi all,
We are getting closer to Debconf. One month from now I expect this to
be a living hell, so we'd better hurry while we can. I want to start
printing the T-shirts as soon as possible.
Of course, in order to do it, we need a design. Agnieszka, as you are
our graphics designer, I hope you can cope with our ideas.
We (Nadezhda and I) want the T-shirts not to be just something
reminding people of Debconf, but something that has some Mexican
culture in it. We have had some ideas.
On one hand, we could include the shape of the Iztaccíhuatl and
Popocatépetl volcanos, which overlook several central Mexican valleys,
and are part of our cultural identity. Here is a photo taken from
Oaxtepec and a sample logo:
http://www.gwolf.org/index.php?photos/album/13/photo/574
http://iztapopo.conanp.gob.mx/
Now, on the other hand, we would like something tied to our
prehispanic cultures. As I told you before, I think their glyphs can
be very different and attractive to foreigners - That's the main
reason I am including my mother, Ofelia Iszaevich, as a recipient of
this mail. She is a painter, and has studied quite thoroughly the
prehispanic codexes - I asked her to scan or invent some ideas, and to
explain some of the basic glyph concepts we could use.
I found a couple of images that might be useful to explain what our
codexes are like:
http://www.artehistoria.com/historia/obras/10351.htm
The New Fire ceremony, Borbon codex
http://www.uaq.mx/ingenieria/publicaciones/calendarios/calazt.html
Aztec-Gregorian calendar converter. Debconf starts at the Chicome
Tochtli year, Hueytozozli month, Ce Cuetspallin day, and lasts until
the Chiconahui Malinalli day in the same month.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9449/s17fgon1.htm
Mesoamerican calendars
...And many others. I have to leave now, but you might remember my
suggestion of using the "word" or "talking" sign, which can bear
resemlance to the Debian logo:
http://www.geocities.com/ululalula/palabra.jpg
...I am sure my mother will be able to provide better examples, but I
didn't want to leave home without sending this mail.
Greetings,
--
Gunnar Wolf - gwolf@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244
PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF
From gwolf@gwolf.org Mon Mar 13 09:51:46 2006
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:51:46 -0600
From: Gunnar Wolf
To: Agnieszka pixelgirl Czajkowska
Subject: Re: T-shirts for Debconf
Message-ID: <20060313155146.GA14647@gwolf.org>
References: <20060310131602.GA2941@gwolf.org> <20060310162455.GB4643@gwolf.org> <20060310164403.GC4643@gwolf.org>
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Agnieszka pixelgirl Czajkowska dijo [Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 03:52:14PM +0100]:
> Hi Gunnar,
>
> I would like to talk over the things about T-shirts on IRC if
> possible. When can I reach you?
Hi!
I try to be online during the day (GMT-6, of course). This week I will
be quite busy... But if you don't find me, try reaching Nadezhda, she
is also there often.
I am usually logged in but not online in any channels - Just
/msg gwolf and I'll join #debconf-team or whatever channel.
Greetings,
--
Gunnar Wolf - gwolf@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244
PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF
From gwolf@gwolf.org Sat Mar 25 08:44:49 2006
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:44:49 -0600
From: Gunnar Wolf
To: Agnieszka pixelgirl Czajkowska
Cc: Antonio Ognio ,
Andreas Schuldei
Subject: Re: Did you receive the texts?
Message-ID: <20060325144449.GA22735@gwolf.org>
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Agnieszka pixelgirl Czajkowska dijo [Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 02:04:58PM +0100]:
> >He thinks if they were a wider and less tall in relation to the
> >width people would get them correctly as mexican hats.
>
> Ok, I can change that. I will also do some research about Mexico so I
> can get a few more ideas. I will upload all results when I finnished
> them all at once. However, thanx very much for your feedback Antonio. :)
> Is it possible to talk to one of you on Skype? Things can be
> explained better when I can make corrections on the fly and not
> switch to type on IRC.
Hi,
Ok, so here I go again ;-) I am still not completely happy, because of
one thing: The "hot and spicy" theme is fine with me... But I want our
T-shirts (and proceedings, lets not forget about them!) to reflect the
place you will visit, its culture, its identity, its past... Not just
the most popular cliche of it. I hope you understand why I am so
stubborn about this.
I know I should have sent a proposal of my own, or Nadezhda could have
done it as well... We are both as busy as we can be. We asked at a
local-local-localteam meeting yesterday to send ideas drawn by
somebody with better graphic education than myself reflecting what we
want. We agreed to have something ready one week from now.
I will be uploading the images my mother sent me (and I sent you) to
the Debconf website (of course, not linked to the site itself, just to
send the reference to some people). I hope something we all agree on
comes out of this.
Greetings,
--
Gunnar Wolf - gwolf@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244
PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF
From andreas@schuldei.org Sat Mar 25 10:30:57 2006
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 19:38:33 +0100
To: Gunnar Wolf
Cc: Agnieszka pixelgirl Czajkowska ,
Antonio Ognio ,
Andreas Schuldei
Subject: Re: Did you receive the texts?
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On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 08:44:49AM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> Agnieszka pixelgirl Czajkowska dijo [Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 02:04:58PM +0100]:
> > >He thinks if they were a wider and less tall in relation to the
> > >width people would get them correctly as mexican hats.
> >
> > Ok, I can change that. I will also do some research about Mexico so I
> > can get a few more ideas. I will upload all results when I finnished
> > them all at once. However, thanx very much for your feedback Antonio. :)
> > Is it possible to talk to one of you on Skype? Things can be
> > explained better when I can make corrections on the fly and not
> > switch to type on IRC.
>
> Hi,
>
> Ok, so here I go again ;-) I am still not completely happy, because of
> one thing: The "hot and spicy" theme is fine with me... But I want our
> T-shirts (and proceedings, lets not forget about them!) to reflect the
> place you will visit, its culture, its identity, its past... Not just
> the most popular cliche of it. I hope you understand why I am so
> stubborn about this.
>
> I know I should have sent a proposal of my own, or Nadezhda could have
> done it as well... We are both as busy as we can be. We asked at a
> local-local-localteam meeting yesterday to send ideas drawn by
> somebody with better graphic education than myself reflecting what we
> want. We agreed to have something ready one week from now.
>
> I will be uploading the images my mother sent me (and I sent you) to
> the Debconf website (of course, not linked to the site itself, just to
> send the reference to some people). I hope something we all agree on
> comes out of this.
I am standing in the middel here: on the one hand i think a
"defaced" aztec pice of art would make a great
tshirt/proceeding/whatnot decoration. One could even take a whole
lot of different art pices (sculptures, pictures, or symbols like
the sun stone) and have the defacement as a the theme. I am a
real fan of that and also of aztec or maya art, so I would be
almost disappointed if it did not happen, at least partly.
but then i cant really see the suitability or the great ideas or
perhaps even funniness (?) behind the pictures that gunnar
provided. they might carry a great depth of meaning and historic
importance, but are rather unknown outside mexico, i guess. I
never saw them (conciously, at least) before and without the
text/background info i would not understand them. defacing them
is not really an option (as far as i can tell) since they are not
beautyfull, are drawn with thin lines (unsuitable for tshits) and
have an awkward format (no wonder, coming out of a role).
The wealth of details in e.g. the sun stone is not a real hinder,
in my opinion. It is rather a challange and means additional work
to simplify or interprete the stuctures and patterns. But then i
was never able to do great things without (hard) work. Looking
back it was usually laziness that cept me from transforming a good
idea into a good result.
The tshirt suggestions so far lack the spirit and funnyness of
the tortillia role with ethernet and usb cables and are to me not
really interesting or exciting.
From gwolf@gwolf.org Fri Mar 10 10:44:03 2006
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:44:03 -0600
From: Gunnar Wolf
To: Agnieszka pixelgirl Czajkowska
Cc: Gabriela Manjarrez ,
Andreas Schuldei
Subject: Re: T-shirts for Debconf
Message-ID: <20060310164403.GC4643@gwolf.org>
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But of course, if I don't attach the images, you will probably not
enjoy them :)
[ NOTE: This message was modified since it was sent. I deleted the
refered file, but as this mbox belongs in the shirt_ideas directory
our SVN tree, I think they will be much more easily accessible
in the codex_samples directory. ]
--
Gunnar Wolf - gwolf@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244
PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
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From gwolf@gwolf.org Fri Mar 10 10:24:55 2006
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:24:55 -0600
From: Gunnar Wolf
To: Agnieszka pixelgirl Czajkowska
Cc: Gabriela Manjarrez ,
Andreas Schuldei
Subject: Re: T-shirts for Debconf
Message-ID: <20060310162455.GB4643@gwolf.org>
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Ok, here are some samples my mother sent me that can be used for our
ideas. You will note some writings over the codexes - The spaniards
wrote over them so they could explain them to others:
- calmecac.jpg: Calmecac and Cuicacalli were the two kinds of schools
in the Aztec empire, Calmecac for noble kids and Cuicacalli for
learning to work (IIRC)
- patolli.jpg: The game of the ball. The red swirly signs coming from
two of the players are their words.
- great_tenochtitlan.jpg: Description of the foundation of the Great
Tenochtitlan, which became Mexico City. The Aztecs migrated from
Aztlan (see 'peregrination_scroll' below) until they found the sign
from the gods: An eagle standing over a cactus eating a snake. That
is today's Mexico coat of arms.
- knowledge_translation.jpg: How was knowledge translated/transmitted
to the conquerors. Read right to left, of course - An old Aztec
explained his knowledge to Aztec scribans, which wrote it and
translated it for the Catholic priest.
- peregrination_scroll.jpg: A detail from the scroll where the
peregrination from Aztlan to Mexico-Tenochtitlan was told. Here we
see they left the eight houses (on top, each of the emblems
symbolizes what that house was), prepared and ate food (bottom left)
and cried (bottom right).
- peregrination_scroll_large.jpg: A larger page from the peregrination
scroll. It shows they arrived to a place they thought it was the
chosen one: A broken tree that didn't fall down. That leads to what
I just described above ;-)
- oaxtepec.jpg: The glyph for Oaxtepec
I also found another site with some nice illustrations, some from
codexes that look perfectly prehispanic and some I would not bet on
their origin - But has a lot of explanation:
http://nyupress.org/sisterstories/index.html
I got there looking for details on cuicacalli, which led me here:
http://nyupress.org/sisterstories/cuicacalli/cuicacalli.html
And probably the best known prehispanic figure: The Aztec calendar:
http://www.earthmatrix.com/serie02/cuad02-1.htm
Greetings,
--
Gunnar Wolf - gwolf@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244
PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF