Should it have been her watch, though? Sam, once again, was out on her own, without Jim knowing where she was. It's easy not to take your responsibility, and blame the ones that do take it up.

Both are at fault. Both should have known better. If a learner driver crashes because the instructor went for a break and left them to park the car, the instructor would lose their job. This might not have been a formal training situation, but responsibility is not always handed to you on a piece of paper.

Jim's overreacting here. Sam is at least 14, probably 15. At school we were using electric sanders by that age, and while the class would be supervised that's 1 teacher and occasionally 1 assistant for 25 kids, using various tools once we'd been trained on them. Should Faye have gone to the bathroom leaving her unsupervised? No, especially not the first time using the tool, but the vast majority of kids wouldn't do what Sam did. I mean, In many ages past that's an adult, in many countries right now that's an adult.

Sam got a better level of personal supervision than she'd get in almost any other environment. And Jim should recognise that and be grateful that an adult is trying to teach his kid practical skills. Sam's the one who messed up and broke Faye's trust.

You can't completely wrap up kids or protect them from every danger. Not if you want them to learn those skills and independence.

Jim's overreacting here. Sam is at least 14, probably 15. At school we were using electric sanders by that age, and while the class would be supervised that's 1 teacher and occasionally 1 assistant for 25 kids, using various tools once we'd been trained on them. Should Faye have gone to the bathroom leaving her unsupervised? No, especially not the first time using the tool, but the vast majority of kids wouldn't do what Sam did. I mean, In many ages past that's an adult, in many countries right now that's an adult.

Sam got a better level of personal supervision than she'd get in almost any other environment. And Jim should recognise that and be grateful that an adult is trying to teach his kid practical skills. Sam's the one who messed up and broke Faye's trust.

You can't completely wrap up kids or protect them from every danger. Not if you want them to learn those skills and independence.

I would like to second this. As stated before, I have also used these tools in school at this age, and I'm a bit annoyed with how much blame is put on Faye for this. Although I think, a lot of parents would overreact a bit here, so I can cut Jim 'some' slack for being quite rude.But my more general problem, is that I feel that the comic story line itself seems to acknowledge it as strong 'carelessness' from Faye, which I feel uncomfortable with. She's been more thoughtful and careful than most of my teacher's have been, *and* she's even apologizing.

But my more general problem, is that I feel that the comic story line itself seems to acknowledge it as strong 'carelessness' from Faye, which I feel uncomfortable with.

I have to agree with this. Jeph seems to have started from the base concept of "Sam gets hurt because Faye is careless" and written backwards from there. That isn't a bad way to create narrative but, in this particular case, he doesn't seem to have been quite able to tell the story smoothly. It has the same feeling of being forced and awkward that I got from the Tilly & Hanners arc around the new year.

What makes reading these strips really strange is that even the characters seem to be aware that the plot is a bit forced. They're awkward in delivering their lines and keep on pausing at weird points as if they're saying in their heads: "Who the hell wrote this script?"

Jim's overreacting here. Sam is at least 14, probably 15. At school we were using electric sanders by that age, and while the class would be supervised that's 1 teacher and occasionally 1 assistant for 25 kids, using various tools once we'd been trained on them. Should Faye have gone to the bathroom leaving her unsupervised? No, especially not the first time using the tool, but the vast majority of kids wouldn't do what Sam did. I mean, In many ages past that's an adult, in many countries right now that's an adult.

Sam got a better level of personal supervision than she'd get in almost any other environment. And Jim should recognise that and be grateful that an adult is trying to teach his kid practical skills. Sam's the one who messed up and broke Faye's trust.

You can't completely wrap up kids or protect them from every danger. Not if you want them to learn those skills and independence.

I would like to second this. As stated before, I have also used these tools in school at this age, and I'm a bit annoyed with how much blame is put on Faye for this. Although I think, a lot of parents would overreact a bit here, so I can cut Jim 'some' slack for being quite rude.But my more general problem, is that I feel that the comic story line itself seems to acknowledge it as strong 'carelessness' from Faye, which I feel uncomfortable with. She's been more thoughtful and careful than most of my teacher's have been, *and* she's even apologizing.

But maybe that's a European/American cultural difference here.

yeah, but it's also Sam. She's very immature for being what, 14? 15? at that age, using powertools shouldn't be a problem, and neither should be the concept of 'not hiding a snake in your dad's girlfriends home'. She wasn't hurt because the instructions were unclear, or because the tools or the environment was unsafe - she touched the dremel on purpose. Even if Faye had been right next to her, she probably wouldn't have been able to prevent stupidity from happening.

I hope it doesn't lead to Faye actually wallowing in a drink, but to figuring out that she can't indulge Sam any longer. She's not getting paid for it either, seeing that Sam had to be forced to call Jim to tell him where she was.

In fact, Sam seems to have her head in the clouds. That's not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but combine that with the kind of mind that goes "I wonder what would happen if I pressed my nail to the high speed spinning head of the dremel tool?" and its a dangerous combination. And hopefully this incident will be something of a wake up call for Sam. Yeah, she had an unpleasant and painful experience, but she also had a a lucky escape so maybe it'll teach her to think before acting.

Logged

Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Waxing theological here - If souls are a real thing, AIs in the QCverse must have them given the range of behaviors and introspection we've seen. And if AIs have souls, Bubbles has an old one, probably a very old one, and AIs are a recent form of sentient life. Therefore, AI souls must come from the same place as human's. They ARE people.

Now I'll go back to thinking about how to optimize the Maillard reaction on precooked pork sausages. (It's breakfast time.)

This arc with Sam's injury reminds me of Marigold & Dale's fight about insecurity a few months ago. It's a story of mature (mostly) adults (mostly) trying to get by in the world and do right by each other, making mistakes, and trying again. Good times.

Should it have been her watch, though? Sam, once again, was out on her own, without Jim knowing where she was. It's easy not to take your responsibility, and blame the ones that do take it up.

This assumes Sam can be trusted to tell her dad where she is, or to go or stay where she's told. I get the impression she may have either snuck out of the house to go to the shop, or told Jim she'd be somewhere else. Never underestimate the deviousness of a child, especially as they become teenagers.

Jim's overreacting here. Sam is at least 14, probably 15. At school we were using electric sanders by that age, and while the class would be supervised that's 1 teacher and occasionally 1 assistant for 25 kids, using various tools once we'd been trained on them. Should Faye have gone to the bathroom leaving her unsupervised? No, especially not the first time using the tool, but the vast majority of kids wouldn't do what Sam did. I mean, In many ages past that's an adult, in many countries right now that's an adult.

Sam got a better level of personal supervision than she'd get in almost any other environment. And Jim should recognise that and be grateful that an adult is trying to teach his kid practical skills. Sam's the one who messed up and broke Faye's trust.

You can't completely wrap up kids or protect them from every danger. Not if you want them to learn those skills and independence.

I would like to second this. As stated before, I have also used these tools in school at this age, and I'm a bit annoyed with how much blame is put on Faye for this. Although I think, a lot of parents would overreact a bit here, so I can cut Jim 'some' slack for being quite rude.But my more general problem, is that I feel that the comic story line itself seems to acknowledge it as strong 'carelessness' from Faye, which I feel uncomfortable with. She's been more thoughtful and careful than most of my teacher's have been, *and* she's even apologizing.

But maybe that's a European/American cultural difference here.

I'd agree that the different interpretation/judgment of the situation at hand seems to be mostly a European/American cultural difference.In the US there seems to be a much more pervasive line of thinking that children require to be shielded from as much risk as possible during childhood, with as a result the stereotypical (but very real) helicopter parents and parents generally being a lot more fuzzy about anything that may have the slightest chance of physically hurting their kids, compared to European parents that is..

Not just my own observation (I am Dutch), also something my gf (who grew up in the US) comments on pretty much everytime we visit NL or when seeing Dutch friends living in the US, who of course use their European mindset. In addition, my Dutch friends with kids who have been living in the US for some years now tell me that they sometimes get comments basically telling them to increase their helicoptering...

Of course this is all anecdotal, and may only refer to the typical Northwestern European countries (?). On the other hand, the same Dutch friends get comments from Dutch family/friends basically criticizing them for having their kids in daycare 5 days/week, something nobody in the US bats an eye at...

But my more general problem, is that I feel that the comic story line itself seems to acknowledge it as strong 'carelessness' from Faye, which I feel uncomfortable with.

I have to agree with this. Jeph seems to have started from the base concept of "Sam gets hurt because Faye is careless" and written backwards from there. That isn't a bad way to create narrative but, in this particular case, he doesn't seem to have been quite able to tell the story smoothly. It has the same feeling of being forced and awkward that I got from the Tilly & Hanners arc around the new year.

What makes reading these strips really strange is that even the characters seem to be aware that the plot is a bit forced. They're awkward in delivering their lines and keep on pausing at weird points as if they're saying in their heads: "Who the hell wrote this script?"

Yeah I agree with you here. In fact, the Tilly arc to me did not come across as stilted/forced as the current one.I don't know, a lot of the conversations just don't feel natural at all in how they play out. Maybe it's also due to Jeph being behind on the comics (including bonus comics) and having to rush a bit more?

But my more general problem, is that I feel that the comic story line itself seems to acknowledge it as strong 'carelessness' from Faye, which I feel uncomfortable with.

I have to agree with this. Jeph seems to have started from the base concept of "Sam gets hurt because Faye is careless" and written backwards from there. That isn't a bad way to create narrative but, in this particular case, he doesn't seem to have been quite able to tell the story smoothly. It has the same feeling of being forced and awkward that I got from the Tilly & Hanners arc around the new year.

What makes reading these strips really strange is that even the characters seem to be aware that the plot is a bit forced. They're awkward in delivering their lines and keep on pausing at weird points as if they're saying in their heads: "Who the hell wrote this script?"

Ben, is is the plot or the dialog you're objecting to?

'Cause to me what happened is the natural result of the ingredients reacting with each other. Faye offering Sam a development opportunity, Sam doing something reckless in a workshop -- surprising it hasn't happened before! Jim's reacting like a parent whose kid got injured.

oh good lord ...talk about much ado about nothing ...if you live in a family where people use tools all the time heres how this would go

"kid cuts finger playing with saw hes not supposed to touch"

relative comes over stops bleeding puts bandaid calms kid down tells kid "see that's why ya don't mess with things you don't know how to use" mom says same thing but gives love tap to the back of the head and life goes on

I mean if she got cut in jr/sh shop class hes gonna take her outta class ? note I come from a very long line of mechanics and carpenters ÖÖ...

But my more general problem, is that I feel that the comic story line itself seems to acknowledge it as strong 'carelessness' from Faye, which I feel uncomfortable with.

I have to agree with this. Jeph seems to have started from the base concept of "Sam gets hurt because Faye is careless" and written backwards from there. That isn't a bad way to create narrative but, in this particular case, he doesn't seem to have been quite able to tell the story smoothly. It has the same feeling of being forced and awkward that I got from the Tilly & Hanners arc around the new year.

What makes reading these strips really strange is that even the characters seem to be aware that the plot is a bit forced. They're awkward in delivering their lines and keep on pausing at weird points as if they're saying in their heads: "Who the hell wrote this script?"

Ben, is is the plot or the dialog you're objecting to?

'Cause to me what happened is the natural result of the ingredients reacting with each other. Faye offering Sam a development opportunity, Sam doing something reckless in a workshop -- surprising it hasn't happened before! Jim's reacting like a parent whose kid got injured.

We've seen Jim be a reactive parent in the past. He happens to air on the side of a protective parent. I don't think he's ridiculously protective, but I would consider it slightly problematic...a realistic human flaw that could impede him down the road as a parent as Sam discovers more independence and acts like a typical teen. I don't fault him for that. I've been there myself (though not with injuriesómore with bullying). It's tricky to find a balance.

I don't feel Faye is an irresponsible person in this arc either. She made a very human mistake and learned from it. She even owned up to it on her end by talking Jim afterwards and accepting he was not happy with her. That takes serious 'nads.

Aside from yesterday's strip, I don't find any of this story to be uncomfortable, but maybe that's because my daughter is approaching Sam's age. I've been around a lot of different kids and other parents/teachers at this point, and yeah, I will judge others' choices with children to a degree (if nothing elseóto rethink how I do things), but I'm used to other parents and teachers making very different judgement calls with kids than I would make, and I see that the kids can still turn out to be amazing people who benefited from their relationship with those adults. This includes my own. I try to remember the cool turtle dad from Finding Nemo.

Another cool thing about this story is Jim is trying hard on his end to fight his overprotectiveness, and that also shows growth on his endówhich is pretty cool considering he is a minor character.

To all of those comparing Sam using a power tool in the shop to their own experiences in school, or with mechanically inclined parents-I find the comparison flawed. For those tracking the geographical data, I'm from rural Canada.

If Sam had been enrolled in a mechanical or woodworking class, Jim would have at least been subconsciously prepared for her to be injured in some way. It's a class for learning how to use tools, and Sam is..Sam. He might have been angry or scared, of course, cause it's his kid, but still-he would have likely been expecting it. He might have also have been more receptive if Faye or Sam asked him if she could learn to use power tools under Faye's supervision. (Although I will grant that sometimes it's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission)

But Sam wasn't in a class. Sam was in her adult friend's shop- a friend Jim trusted to keep his child intact. Maybe he should have factored in the siren song of power tools, but he didn't. And Sam got hurt, no matter how minor. Jim is allowed to be angry at the person who should have been watching her. He should also be reasonable about that anger, which he is, as much as possible.

I like this arc. It's a group of people doing the best they can under the circumstances, and everyone is learning. Faye's learning that apprentices can and will do illogical things, Sam's learning actions have consequences, and Jim's learning that his little girl is growing up.

When you go to school and you take woodwork or metalwork or whatever subject involves power tools - you go there to learn. From trained professionals. As in people trained to teach people how to use the tools. They're trained to deal with people who don't have great attention spans and spend some time before going over the basics of safety, control and what to expect, well before they let a student even touch a power tool.

Faye may be a professional metal worker, but she isn't a teacher. What we saw was Sam holding a dremel tool and Faye nearly freaking out because the kid was going to start dremelling without putting the piece into a vise. She let Sam into the deep end and was lucky that Sam only suffered a ripped off nail.

Everyone who has their own experience with using power tools, ask yourself this. Before you got to use them, how many times did you watch someone else use them? Were you told how to use it? What kick to expect from a drill? Maybe the right way to hold and use a heatgun? Because I bet, every single parent or adult figure teaching you made sure that the first time you used something wouldn't be your last.

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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Hmmmmh ... Jim didn't say anything about the Lasers being verboten, did he?

Uh-oh ...

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"Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter" - Rosa Luxemburg"The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you donít know you're a member of the Dunning-Kruger club. People miss that." - David Dunning

I think you have to power up a laser; that makes it a de facto power tool.

Why, yes ... in the same sense that your PC, your fridge, or the ceiling lights in the room you're in are power tools.

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"Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter" - Rosa Luxemburg"The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you donít know you're a member of the Dunning-Kruger club. People miss that." - David Dunning

Everyone who has their own experience with using power tools, ask yourself this. Before you got to use them, how many times did you watch someone else use them? Were you told how to use it? What kick to expect from a drill? Maybe the right way to hold and use a heatgun? Because I bet, every single parent or adult figure teaching you made sure that the first time you used something wouldn't be your last.

If he said, "That's a wicked instrument," he meant, "That thing will kill you if you're don't watch it." I don't ever remember a time I didn't believe him. He had some scars and a fingertip or two missing, so that may have had something to do with is cred. I never really had a serious run-in with a power tool.

(Small kitchen appliances were another matter - a Sunbeam electric mixer tried to eat my left thumb. It didn't break anything or draw blood, but it wasn't for lack of effort. I don't remember if I turned it off or pulled the plug, but I escaped more or less unscathed except for a long bruise the folks didn't notice and I didn't tell them about it. Mom would have freaked and Dad would have been furious because I think that's how he got at least one of those scars. If he's reading QC on the Other Side and sees this he may come back from the dead and whupp my arse.)

For me, this panel is mostly about how Bubbles is as much Faye's support now as Faye is Bubbles support in other ways. Without any real conscious directly, Faye turns to Bubbles for comfort and Bubbles tries to comfort Faye.

That said, panel 4 does seem to suggest that Faye is asking herself: "Is my girlfriend a smartass or is she learning all the wrong lessons from life?"

Oh, and yeah. Bubbles would be over the moon to be considered a beneficial person to be around.

Caveat for this post: Iím not yet a parent (though I hope to be someday)

Jimís treatment of Faye is out of line. So far as we know (or at least that I can remember) he has never spoken to her about what Sam is/isnít allowed to do in the shop. Thatís on him. He seems to at least been aware that she is spending time there in which case he should have spoken with Faye and Bubbles if he is concerned. He canít just assume they will mind read that he never wants his daughter to use power tools.

Meanwhile Faye SHOULD have waited until Sam had shown she was capable of safely handling the dremel before walking away, but itís a dremel, itís not like she left Sam alone with a table saw or angle grinder. And Sam didnít have ďan accidentĒ with a tool because she was inexperienced (like she slipped while using it wrong), she was an idiot and used the tool in a completely dangerous fashion. Thatís not Fayeís fault.

Meanwhile I think Jim is right to ban Sam, at least temporarily, from using power tools because clearly she isnít capable of handling them in a remotely responsible manner. She needs to demonstrate some common sense first. THEN supervised use if she wants to learn.

But yeah, while Jimís reaction might be emotionally understandable I donít think itís fair to Faye and I would love it if he apologizes.

You mean where he agrees with Faye's own words? Because I don't think he would have said anything like that otherwise. In fact, if Faye hadn't asked that question, the conversation would have gone no further.

I thought that his response to Faye's characteristic and unnecessary sass was appropriate and not at all out of line.

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"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." - Sir Joshua Reynolds (paraphrased)

Caveat for this post: Iím not yet a parent (though I hope to be someday)

Jimís treatment of Faye is out of line.

Nah.If anything Jim's reaction was too rational.As you say, you don't have children, and whereas empathy is one thing, experience is another.

Example?My daughter had to go to the dentist.Dentist could not pull a tooth they wanted to.MY daughter was becoming more and more distraught as this 'professional' hauled and hauled and hauled while she was under only a local anaesthetic...

It took every fibre of my being not to haul the incompetent fecker off of her.Even more so when they then shrugged and said... "I can't get it out. We'll just have to leave it in."

My take as a parent?A 'professional' in charge of my child's well-being failed miserably and caused her great pain and anxiety.(A moment which scarred her for a long time and made every dentist trip a feat of logic over sheer dread.)

So, yeah... Jim in NO WAY over-reacted and certainly was NOT out-of-line.

(In a way, I kinda blame Jeph for making the 'accident' too easy. Ripping off a fingernail with a dremel would, I imagine, cause far more pain and distress than Sam showed... Which might explain the little backlash against Jim.Had we seen Sam in a LOT of pain and anguish (as opposed to, what, a frame and a half?) then it might be a different story.... But then, we don't really want comics full of mid-teens in agony, do we!)

Meh. Veronica's called, and been called, much worse in a perfectly friendly conversation with an old and dear friend. One assumes she and Jim have reached a similar level of personal and psychological familiarity by now.

Switch the genders, and just imagine the firestorm.

Hell, there are already people here demanding Jim apologize to Faye for daring to confront her! Geez.

They did change the gender of the insulted person in their example, but you seem not have noticed; and your attempt to stir up a firestorm yourself appears to be failing - but it has attracted the attention of this moderator, so watch it.

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"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."(from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"(from: The Eccentric Family )

Most of my problem with Jim's reaction is that Faye made sure Sam had protection, made sure Same knew what she was doing, and then asked Sam if she could trust her to be safe and do the task while she stepped away for a few minutes at most. Like, how dare Faye encourage one of Sam's interests, make sure the kid had the proper equipment, and then have faith in her. Such a bad influence.

(In a way, I kinda blame Jeph for making the 'accident' too easy. Ripping off a fingernail with a dremel would, I imagine, cause far more pain and distress than Sam showed... Which might explain the little backlash against Jim.

Actually, Jeph chose the wrong tool for the literary job. A Dremel won't tear a fingernail away - it lacks the power. To paraphrase the Dremel manual, "Don't force the tool, let the speed do the work." It would nibble the alpha-keratin material away taking advantage of it's high speed. Next time you go to a podiatrist, take a look at the instrument table. Odds are you'll see a Dremel there. They use them to reduce thick calluses and ||drum roll|| toenails. Sam's injury didn't happen quickly - she was playing with the thing, seeing how thin she could cut it. It broke through and it bit her.

But, a Dremel as a literary device does advance the plot by getting Sam injured without maiming her.

In real life, an alert caregiver would be watching for other evidence of self harm behaviors. Jim may be clueless and it's outside Bubbles' training and experience, but Veronica, having been professionally involved in the BDSM scene, has no doubt encountered more than a couple folks with those kinds of issues. We don't know how severely Sam's abandonment issues around her absent mother affect her, but they ARE THERE to some degree or another, and they might be starting to emerge. Once in a while Jeph takes on the dark stuff, and this arc may be his segue into some.

There's the apparent social isolation. Faye once had to ask something like "Don't you have any friends your own age?".

There's that. And the fact that she seems to be away from school a lot, wandering in the wild.

I think that is what bothers me most, here. Relaxed parenting style or not, Jim might need want to watch that. There might be something going on with Sam, and she clearly keeps things from him. At least UR lets him know where she is. There's more of an issue there, than in a simple accident.

I know, it's not easy for him, either. And the schedule he keeps doesn't help. But he might want to have a good look at himself, but more importantly, a good talk with Sam. She's trying to be reasonable, and I feel he might have gotten somewhat deeper than usual.I may be wrong.