here's some words from Justin Trudeau about the Boston bombing, who wants to be the future prime minister of Canada.

“Now, we don’t know now if it was terrorism or a single crazy or a domestic issue or a foreign issue,” he said. “But there is no question that this happened because there is someone who feels completely excluded. Completely at war with innocents. At war with a society. And our approach has to be, where do those tensions come from?

“Yes, there’s a need for security and response,” Trudeau added. “But we also need to make sure that as we go forward, that we don’t emphasize a culture of fear and mistrust. Because that ends up marginalizing even further those who already are feeling like they are enemies of society.”

“Any attempt to draw a connection between Chechnya and Tsarnaevs—if they are guilty—is futile. They were raised in the United States, and their attitudes and beliefs were formed there. It is necessary to seek the roots of this evil in America. The whole world must struggle against terrorism—that we know better than anyone else. We hope for the recovery of all the victims, and we mourn with the Americans.”

Phoenix

here's some words from Justin Trudeau about the Boston bombing, who wants to be the future prime minister of Canada.

“Now, we don’t know now if it was terrorism or a single crazy or a domestic issue or a foreign issue,” he said. “But there is no question that this happened because there is someone who feels completely excluded. Completely at war with innocents. At war with a society. And our approach has to be, where do those tensions come from?

“Yes, there’s a need for security and response,” Trudeau added. “But we also need to make sure that as we go forward, that we don’t emphasize a culture of fear and mistrust. Because that ends up marginalizing even further those who already are feeling like they are enemies of society.”

For him the terrorists could be considered as victims.

They are victims. Before that interview I had always dismissed Trudeau, but lots of what he said (including what you quoted) really encouraged me about him. Although I'm sure Tom Mulcaire of the official opposition feels exactly the same way about terrorism, but just can't say so because then he'd be labeled a socialist again (and just this weekend his party officially gave up that term).

Poor ol' victims. They have every right to go around blowing people up. My heart goes out to them. Maiming and killing others is every victim's right. It would take a Trudeau to see the obvious, wouldn't it?

Phoenix

How can liberalism cause terrorism if there's no such thing as terrorism? Over a hundred thousand people die everyday, most of it preventable. Government cuts, government spending, buying a nintendo for yourself, voting for the wrong party, all of these things kill people, just not in overt ways. If people are simply ignorant, does it take them off the hook? These two bombers believed most likely in some ideology or philosophy or suffered from a psychological affliction, but what about corrupt government officials or big business executives, who often kill more people with open-eyed deliberateness merely out of personal greed?

Why focus on these two bombers? To find scapegoats, to cling to one's sense of patriotism, as an act of mental evasion to ignore the larger reality? The larger reality used to upset me, but I dealt with it, I don't let anger and fear control my life. I realized that everyone, not just bombers and murderers, suffer from psychological afflictions, which does not bring them happiness. I didn't want that.

Are you suggesting that if people fail to gain something from their actions, then they are victims??? Do you suffer from an inability to focus? Two guys deliberately murder and maim people they have no connection to. That is the subject. The subject is not what is wrong with everybody else. But I realize you do not, can not, and will not be able to see this. Which is why I decline to debate with most people. People generally seem to suck. These two sucked way more than most. End of story.

What more could anyone have done for these 2 shitheads? If anything they are victims of being treated like victims. Paradoxically there is a certain aspect of being a man that despises an "easy life" and thrives in the wild under hardship. These guys were only victims in the sense that they were not in an environment that agreed with them. These guys belonged in the rugged hills of Chechnya living a sort of quasi-ascetic Muslim life. They would have been happier there. If I remember right Osama bin-Laden went to Oxford? It seems like these guys get a taste of actual civilization and hate how "soft" it is. I guarantee trying to sit down with these guys and talk about their psychological afflictions would only enrage them further.

See, there are two kinds of people here: 1: Those who view society as what it is, and shape themselves to accommodate it. 2: Those who view society as something that should shape itself to them so that they are accommodated by it.

There is no possibility that the two types can ever communicate with each other. Because their starting-points give them radically opposed perspectives.

I would suggest, that people were forced to convert to buddhism or some other religion, and let them live in humble self owned houses with only the bedroom part built in double brick wall and isolated well, and the rest of the small houses made like a barn.

They should grow a lot of vegetables and have goats and rabbits, while the more starchy crops should be grown in a guild of the village.

All the uneccecary things of modern society should be illegal to produce.

Because we got the wonderful tractor and other technological things, the peasants should work only one day in the field, and the rest of the time spend on religion, musical endeavours or sports etc.

The fundamental difference between such a feudal-theocractic model with the priestly and millitary nobles as leaders and the communist model lies mostly in that the former is centered around culture as it is defined and carried on mostly by the aristocracy. Both models manages things in a social way, but communism is driven from bureaucracy and with all together different values.

Phoenix

I'm not suggesting people are victims if they fail to gain anything from their actions.

Crow, you asked if they had the 'right' to do what they did. I asked if they gained anything from their actions in response to that. My point is, do they have the right to gain nothing? Do they have the right to be ignorant? Do they have the right to completely fuck up? What is a 'right'?

If crisis like this really brings out a society's true colors, then I don't see much in society that's worth protecting. It comes as no surprise.

People talk about life being sacred, about cherishing life, while they don't even cherish their own, instead stuck in a narcissistic death grip of fear of losing what they have, fear of losing their non-lived life.