9 riders were kicked out of the Tour de France because of preliminary results from Spanish police "Operación Puerto" investigation. Now 5 of the 9 have been cleared by the Spanish courts, though of course the race is over and the damage is done. Will the other 4 riders be cleared as well (including Basso and Ullrich)?

Actually, 13 riders were kicked out of the Tour since the rest of the Astana team (including Vino) was disqualified. Was this all a big mistake?

There are two very good things that can come out of this....
1: Professional cycling will finally be cleaned up.
2: These witch-hunt tactics will be put to an end, and more equitable methods will be used.

For those of you who like to play Devil's Advocate, I do not have the solution either.

I don't know of a single member of this forum who did not want to see the best riders out there, regardless of the outcome. If Basso and Ullrich are, indeed. proven innocent, the injustice done will far outweigh the risk of letting them compete. The lawsuits will be staggering, deservedly so.

Cheers,

Brian

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“A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence. ”

Any one else surprised that the person responsible (Leblanc) for the whole guilty until proven innocent RETIRED?

I hope there is a huge class action suit against the spanish police and the tour officials. I really feel bad for the riders who have just had their names and possibly their carreers ruined.

+1 I don't know if Vino would have won, but he would definitely have been a factor in the race and given how crazy this year's Tour was a Vino victory cannot be discounted.

This is exactly the worst case scenario I was worried about when they exculded people just before the Tour. Imagine if one or both of Basso & Ullrich get exonerated as well?? That will be a sh*t show and it will mean everytime someone mentions Floyd's win they will say.."...oh yeah, but that was the year they kept Vino, Ullrich & Basso out for no reason..."

Vino would've smashed all of these guys ........ but hey Guilty before innocent ....... great concept ........ consolation prize is ........ well we are sorry that you couldn't participate but you are good to go now. Great thats like winning 5 cents in the lottery.

There is no smoking gun, or documents with the riders names on them yet. But please remember that their Team Manager was seen going to a meeting the Fuentes and the other doctors, carrying 60,000 Euros, he also left that meeting with a suitcase full of banned substances. He has also admitted to planning training schedules for his riders with Fuentes (no doubt to cover his ass if and when documentation comes to light)

Why plan your training schedules with a blood chemist who is masquerading as a gynocologist? And can we believe he was only sitting idly by while other teams are sending thier riders to the same guy for blood doping?

And at the Tour, he has 9 weapons, do you think he would bring them rusty and misaligned, espeically the big Khazak cannon?

C'mon people.

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"You should already be aware that riding with people who steer with their elbows, stick food to the top tube of their frames and ride around in dick togs is not a great idea." -- Classic1

I dunno about the other 4, but I'm convinced Allan davis is innocent.....only because, out of all the riders named, he's the only one that has come out & said "Do a DNA test on me now"...or any other test you want, if it will prove my innocence,then I can get back to racing. A complete contrast to Der kaiser who says "why should I have to prove my innocence?"

Hitchy - that doesn't prove anything. He may have known for sure that there was none of his blood left at Fuentes clinic.

I get what you're saying....but the opposite may also be true...theres no blood because he wasn't involved....somewhere, somehow, when there absolutely no evidence of anything, or evidence to suggest anything (ie: superhuman performance) then you can't be found guilty of anything.......I'd suggest that if the others were as sure of lack of evidence as Davis, that they too take 'any test, anytime, anywhere'...but you're right, it proves nothing...but how is it possible to prove a negative?

There is no smoking gun, or documents with the riders names on them yet. But please remember

I have to agree with you. From what I understand, the Op Puerto investigation is far from over. It's likely that the Spanish court has found that there is insufficient evidence as of now to justify sanctions. I hope these guys really are clean, but we'll just have to see how this plays out.

__________________Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

Doping is not illegal in spain, only crimes against public health. So the riders have no charges to face, in Spain....

Their National Federations will be expected to make some sort of ruling etc.. but it's simply passing the buck in a way.

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"You should already be aware that riding with people who steer with their elbows, stick food to the top tube of their frames and ride around in dick togs is not a great idea." -- Classic1

VN: What about the status of the Astana riders who were cleared of implication in Operación Puerto by the court in Madrid, and those from Communidad Valencia?

RG: I am not so sure they (are cleared). Just because the court says this doesn't meant the UCI says so. In the case of Allan Davis, for example, we got a letter from the court sent to us from Neil Stephens (an Astana director). He sent it to the UCI and CA (Cycling Australia) saying the court would not be prosecuting Allan Davis. Our answer to CA was: "Okay, we accept that, but we are not interested in what the courts say. We are doing our investigation and whatever comes out, comes out."

We would like to think he is okay. And I hope he is. But the UCI will ride this all the way through. We will not back off and will pay the price. The price we hope we pay is to clean the sport for guys like the Michael Rogers, the Cadel Evans and Stuart O'Gradys who have to sit there and watch what is going on and pay the price for these other monkeys."

Presumably because he's Australian (not Austrailian) and was talking with another Australian (the interviewer) when discussing the Tour. Unsurprisingly, we're generally happy at having two top 10 finishes and the green jersey - our best ever Tour.

It was a good interview I thought, not least because Godkin brought home just how many people Landis has cheated - not only so many other riders that might have won it, but also so many cycling and Tour administrators who poured their lives into the Tour to have its reputation wrecked.