I love how certain fans are writing off a 21 year old kid b/c he doesn't have plate discipline. Plate discipline can be developed (I'm not saying he will, but stating he won't like it's a fact is asinine.)

I am not sure we are writing him off. But he has terrible not poor plate discipline for a AAA player. He is also a below average AAA fielder. He is a good AAA DH. So to project him to a ML player, even at 21, is a real stretch right now.

I'm trying to figure out why we're so pessimistic. Kid is a .276 hitter without walking. That means he knows how to make contact. Someone will teach him discipline, and then he can explode as a hitter.

In a full season you can slot him in with a 35 home runs- that's pretty damn good.

OBVIOUSLY, they are different players, and I am not saying it's ok how Alexei walks so little... but as we have all seen, Alexei is a decent offensive player, and has consistently shown for the past 3 years that he can be effective at the major league level. Just last year, Alexei had 49 walks. He obviously was trying to walk more in 2009, and I would assume he got help from somebody, somewhere. The difference between these two players? Viciedo isn't very good at defense, but he is also a very powerful hitter.

Any power hitter is going to get more garbage than a slappy hitter, especially when he already hit the cover off a ball during a game or series. He is young enough to learn to lay of breaking stuff, and he has already shown he can hit major league hitting. I think, given an offseason and maybe a half-a-year, he can learn to lay of the breaking stuff, which will result in more walks as well. I don't think it will happen automatically, but he's going to need to work with somebody, hopefully his focus from now on is hitting, and not 3B.

He is progressing no where near as fast as I thought he would, but he is still VERY young (21), and if it takes until he is 23-24 to come up and bat .280 with just a .335 OBP, but still hit the cover off the ball, I don't think he will be a bust. He's making a lot of money, but any time now, something could snap and we could have an All-Star ready to come out of our system. I'm not giving up hope like many people here seem to be, his problems are minor tweeks, it's not like we're talking about somebody who just flat-out can't hit.

I'm trying to figure out why we're so pessimistic. Kid is a .276 hitter without walking. That means he knows how to make contact. Someone will teach him discipline, and then he can explode as a hitter.

In a full season you can slot him in with a 35 home runs- that's pretty damn good.

How well did the trying to outhit the opponent philosophy work out throughout the 90's?

OBVIOUSLY, they are different players, and I am not saying it's ok how Alexei walks so little... but as we have all seen, Alexei is a decent offensive player, and has consistently shown for the past 3 years that he can be effective at the major league level. Just last year, Alexei had 49 walks. He obviously was trying to walk more in 2009, and I would assume he got help from somebody, somewhere. The difference between these two players? Viciedo isn't very good at defense, but he is also a very powerful hitter.

Any power hitter is going to get more garbage than a slappy hitter, especially when he already hit the cover off a ball during a game or series. He is young enough to learn to lay of breaking stuff, and he has already shown he can hit major league hitting. I think, given an offseason and maybe a half-a-year, he can learn to lay of the breaking stuff, which will result in more walks as well. I don't think it will happen automatically, but he's going to need to work with somebody, hopefully his focus from now on is hitting, and not 3B.

He is progressing no where near as fast as I thought he would, but he is still VERY young (21), and if it takes until he is 23-24 to come up and bat .280 with just a .335 OBP, but still hit the cover off the ball, I don't think he will be a bust. He's making a lot of money, but any time now, something could snap and we could have an All-Star ready to come out of our system. I'm not giving up hope like many people here seem to be, his problems are minor tweeks, it's not like we're talking about somebody who just flat-out can't hit.

What are you trying to show with these numbers here? Last year Dayan had a BB% of 4.3% and this year in the minors it's at 2.7%

I'm not sure he's going to bust, but I don't think he's close to becoming an all-star.

I'd recommend you look up what a marginal first baseman produces at the plate. Hint: it's likely better than Viciedo's ceiling, given his plate discipline issues.

If he continues to have plate discipline issues, he's not going to be very good, but he is still young and has a few years to get things together. He can still be as young as most of the prospects that start coming to the majors (with a year or two more of work).

If he can put together the kind of average and OBP Alexei can get (walks were similar with the stats I showed), then he can end up a decent player, with the potential to have All-Star numbers. This year wasn't a step in the right direction, but it might have something to do with working multiple positions and moving up to the majors, I don't know. I'll still give him a year before I start to think he will be a "bust", because his issue that needs to be fixed isn't a mechanical or physical one... just a mental one. (may be a good, or bad thing). Like all prospects, we need to give him some time to develop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtySox

I did read your post, and have no idea what you are accomplishing by comparing Alexei's 2010 walk total with Dayan's 2009 walk total.
They aren't even remotely similar players and you have no concise point in your ramblings.

I didn't say they were similar, I said they both have problems with walking, and Alexei is still effective. I also said Viciedo still needs work. Alexei is an example of a player that was okay to good offensively, yet walked only about 20 times. There is no doubt Viciedo is going to need to lay of the breaking stuff more, but it's not going to take a huge revamping of his approach for him to be successful in the majors.