posted 09-11-2001 05:39 PM
This is so unreal. It's like a goddamned Clancy book, or some stupid movie. It's just not registering on me that this is real. I'm very glad I don't live in Afghanistan. I get the feeling it may not be there much longer.

BTW Dark_Herakurosu, how would you like to say that to several hundred families tonight?

- - - - -So "a" can be any value?-a guy in my Calculus class, on the nature of variables

posted 09-11-2001 05:44 PM
The one plane crashed in Somerset, PA, about 75 miles away from Pittsburgh, and about 10 miles from my house. The local news said that the plane was headed toward Camp David in Maryland.

posted 09-11-2001 05:46 PM
Scary thought:"Taliban Rules Out Bin Laden in U.S. Attacks: Afghanistan's ruling movement says the terrorist leader "does not have the capability" for such an attack"If not him (we have no PROOF of who, don't go name calling),

It isn't generally name calling to pin an attack like this on Bin Laden. He's a fucking loon, and has well announced terrorist intentions.

But why not take credit?

Because this is huge in terms of terrorism. If someone takes credit, the country they are in that gives them shelter could quickly find themselves at war. Would innocents die in such a war?

The war-minded American will point out that innocents already have died.

Everybody pretty much assumes that this is an attack from Islamic fundamentalists (a poor term, given the fundamentals of Islam). That's a fair guess, honestly.

who has the resources to pull this out?

Well, any given government, to start with, along with a bunch of well funded terrorists.

My gut feeling is that this is in house. Before we start blaming those outside the US, look in the US.

Well, we glanced around for a few seconds, and no one took credit. We'll run through all the scenarios right now:

1- Bin Laden. Likely, obvious. Probably the case2- US terrorist. In this case, the terrorist would probably take credit, knowing that that wouldn't make him easier to find. Unless he had a reason for having the US suspect someone else (for instance, the actual organizational goal is to get the US to attack a terrorist), some organization would credibly take responsibility- one with no known operational base. The only thing going for this are the three known targets- The WTC and the Pentagon are strong symbols of the world economy and the federal government. If I were an anti-government wacko (well, I might be construed as that anyway: if I were a violent and murderous wacko) I would be hard pressed to come up with better targets.3- Other international, direct. The more powerful you are the less popular you are politically. The US is far from a neutral nation, having opinions and back dealings in many areas: sometimes our stances will even deviate from our supposed moral (inconsistent). Our actions aren't the ones of saints, and we could easily have provided motivation for someone to do this (note that that in no way makes it excusable or right).4- Other international, indirect. Only included for completeness, this case is something like "Jewish fundamentalists / Israel did it to get us to attack the Arabs". This is almost laughably ridiculous, and doesn't deserve serious consideration right now.

This attack was very coordinated, damn well executed... scary.If we start retaliating (and blaming) without evidence, we are just as bad as those that did this.

Not really.

Killing known terrorists in cold blood is different than flying planes into civillian buildings in peacetime, period. Don't try to argue otherwise.

All that being said, there *will* be enough evidence to figure out what's going on- it isn't as if the US is just going to roll out the troops or something (we'd be much more likely to resort to airstrikes, even if we did know who did it).

Also note that those any atom bombs dropped on Japan saved way more Japanese lives than they lost- especially since the Japanese government had plans to turn women and children out onto the battlefield to repel the invasion. They knew they couldn't stop us- their idea was to demoralize us and make the victory too costly.

To say nothing at all of US lives.

Which isn't to say that Oppenheimer's actual plan of demonstrating the bomb to Japanese observers wasn't the better plan. It might not have worked (in fact, given that they were still fighting after Hiroshima, it wouldn't have), but it would still have been a better call.

posted 09-11-2001 05:47 PM
Anthrax: Most people seem to think the reason that the second crash occured a few minutes after the first was so that the media could broadcast it.

Actually, I think it was to kill more people. The second struck just when the crews started helping. That's the reason most victims were Police, Firemen, etc.

- - - - -There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs, huge erections, and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.

I first recieved word in my third period class... we spent all of 5th period listening to the radio. It was kinda scary, having a plane crash close to you(I'm near Pittsburgh, the crash was probably 70 miles away.)

4 of the world trade center buildings are down. Pentagon is on fire. Crater by a resort in PA. Its nuts.

I'm amazed at the sheer brilliance of the plan. Only 1 of the 4 planes missed its target. With such precision, skill, stealth... whoever was behind it had some very smart people helping out. (Note: I'm not approving the bombing, mearly saying how brilliant the plan must have been. I personally think Hitler's plan was sheer genius, even if he was evil and terrible and stuff).

My original thoughts before I learned anything, was it was China. Kamikaze seems to be their bag. Then, I thought to Iraq and other middle east countries. Now I'm leaning towards that Bin Ladin guy. Or Canada. I'm still not sure.

posted 09-11-2001 06:34 PM
Wow... I thought the people at school were over-reacting. I was hoping Azure'd at least be level headed about it.

We're not going to war just yet. It was a single act of terrorism and it hasn't been confirmed who's responsible for it. (At the moment everything I've heard accusing Osama Bin Laden has only been speculation, and the U.S. isn't going to attack an entire country on speculation of a single group within their borders.)

I've stopped watching the news for a while since, as cruel as it sounds, I don't care anymore. I've heard what's happened and I'm sad that such an event could happen, but I don't want to have to listen to all the rumors the news channels will be spreading as facts for the next couple of days.

I heard, though, that one of the women who was on the plane that crashed into the Pentagon called her husband and told him that the hijackers forced all the passengers and pilots to the back of the plane using knives and box-cutters. There must be at least two hijackers (referring to them) and they didn't work for the air port otherwise she wouldn't have mentioned the pilots being forced to the back.

Considering how grand scale this was, I don't think it would have been a problem to get all the hijackers in. It's possible they staggered their enterances so as not to raise alarm.

Some girl at my school said a fourth plane hit Camp David and that today was the anniversary of the signing of the Camp David Accords... I don't know where the fuck she came up with that.

The Pentagon was on fire for a long time. I thought that they would have been more prepared for something like that, but considering it's the largest government building having under 100 fatalities isn't horrible. They mentioned none of the senior officers were killed which is important since they'll probably be advising the president on his upcoming decisions concerning war, etc.

On that note, as much as most of you despise George Bush, right now he's going to be under a lot more pressure to make the right decisions. As incompetent as he seems (or may be), he's got the best minds in the U.S. advising him and the lives of millions depending on him making the right decision. He's not going to do something stupid.

posted 09-11-2001 06:39 PM
That fellow Dark_Heracosaw, or whatever should be fucking smart enough to know drafting laws were abolished in the 70's, common sense you lack.More than likely "Embargo" will take place.
From: Rolkensland | Registered: Sep 2000
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daj
unregistered

posted 09-11-2001 06:45 PM

quote:On that note, as much as most of you despise George Bush, right now he's going to be under a lot more pressure to make the right decisions. As incompetent as he seems (or may be), he's got the best minds in the U.S. advising him and the lives of millions depending on him making the right decision. He's not going to do something stupid.

posted 09-11-2001 06:51 PM
MewtwoSama: "In the City of God there will be a great thunder...

I don't think NYC has ever been described as "the city of God".

I am actually surprised something this big hasn't happened before. If you are willing to die for a cause, you can accomplish just about anything. Most of the world is built with the assumption that people are not going to be that fucking crazy.

Amazing.

You have to figure that whomever did this thinks they're just as justified as we were when we A-bombed Japan. I have to figure that they made their point (whatever that is), but that the US is about to use unreasonable force against them and anyone harboring them.

Good.

I know this is the wrong time to mention this and all, but this kinda highlights how stupid the Star Wars plan is...there are so many simpler ways to cause equivalent destruction...

posted 09-11-2001 07:31 PM
meh Iam from NewYorkcity and I live in Manhatten near Lexington st near the F train station. I can see the smoke in the sky even now. This is horrible cause Ive been inside the north tower of the main WTC 2 buildings, I just can't fucking belive that the World Trade Center buildings are now gone, I still have meories going into them...

First of all, this is the land of the free? Want to go live in one of those third world countries and get raped on a daily basis? Be my guest. The draft isn't even operational! We already have enough volenteurs there is no need for a draft, and, even if there was the need to draft, that is just the small price to pay for BEING free. Plus, the army wouldn't want me anyway, I'm in college, plus, I'd be a horrible soldier, but, back to what I was saying...

This is the land of the free. Anyone who says otherwise needs their ass kicked.

EDIT: The only way this will become a war is if the guys who attacked us either

A: Keep trying to attack us.B: Attack other people.

Remember Operation Desert Fox? Not Storm, but Fox. It was during President Clinton's term after the Monica Blewinski thing... anyway, America starting bombinb Iraq (or one of those stupid countries) and, that didn't lead to a war, it's just like saying, hey, leave us alone or we'll REALLY hurt you.

Yeah, this COULD lead to war, but, I feel that just dropping a bunch of bombs and sending a bunch of missles to cause damage to whoever is responsible will be enough to keep us satisfied.

And yes, about 20 minutes as of this post the Prez will talk on TV, and, eh, I'm kinda in a not so good mood, screw all of you who were mean to me above

I just now went to fill up 4 of my families cars because we talked to the cashiers at the gas station and it's going to go from $1.29 to close to $5 later tonight. I was lucky enough to get it for $1.40 right now since the prices are changing by the minute. But I don't think it's going to go that high IMO, but you should see the amount of people there are right now on the streets. It's insane out here and this is only Texas; I'm pretty sure it's even crazier in like Cali and other states. It's damn hard to manuver around 30+ cars in one gas station.

posted 09-11-2001 08:13 PM
I doubt war will break out, its a terrorist faction, not a ation,,but if it is it wont be very hard. this was an act of desperation, heres something i posted on another furm:

we havent been the most ideal people either We've sided with israel on the crisis over there, we've constantly bombed Iraq, and we've acted like the world authority. No the US hasnt been good, you just dont hear about how families overseas are gettin rushed out of their houses, and how children are going hungry, and women are becoming prostitutes so that they can get by. why? because of the destruction we have casued to the poor countries. granted two wrongs arent right, but this gives america the taste of the horror that some many people must endure because of us.

posted 09-11-2001 08:23 PM
I watched the whole damn thing during school.Seeing that plane crash in the Twin Tower was fucking jaw dropping. Then, I was in shock when the Twin Towers fell.

Strange day. Yesterday was my birthday.

These terrorists seem to have a pretty good idea of what they're doing - even though they probably failed in doing a few things. Any pilot, from what I hear, is instructed that, if the plane is hijacked, to immediately down the plane. That's prolly what happend with the PA incident.

I imagine the hijackers killed the pilots of the other planes so to get rid of any resistance.

But why didn't they bomb the White House? It's more of a symbol to us than the Twin Towers.

posted 09-11-2001 08:30 PM
Something I don't understand. Whoever did this must know that blood-thirsty America will seek them out and wipe them out. They must either be a: sure they will never be found out, b: severly underestimate Americas military and sense of self-righteous justice (and given the sophistication of the attack, this is unlickly), c: not care that they will be obliterated. Whatever Laden may be, he does not seem stupid. Even if Laden is not the guilty one, it will still be a good thing if he is killed.

posted 09-11-2001 08:54 PM
These people don't CARE if they die. I mean, they have their own men hijack planes and run em into buildings KNOWING that they will die with the plane. I mean, I don't think I could go through with a Kamakazi Mission, but, these guys sure did.

Maybe they didn't strike the White House because it is probably too well protected maybe? Like they would see a plane coming, etc...

One thing you have to realize, is these foreign jackasses are all symbolic in their work (seriously)

Like, today is September 11, or 9/11. 911 could have been why they struck today.

They use American Flights to strike America, also possibly symbolic.

They are just a bunch of nuts and well, I hope we blast them. I mean, 1000s died today! THOUSANDS! That is just not right!

More interesting news on the Middle East front (although I'm sure it concerns me more than anyone else). Israel is declaring a day of mourning today and tomorrow. Everything is shutting down with the exception of religious institutions that will be sending their prayers. The arab nations took this opportunity to say that the US should rethink their foreign policy.

On a much more morbid note, I think this is something we've seen in gaming before. Who else got to blow up international landmarks in Red Alert 2? I never played Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six, but I've been told it's all about terrorism and counter-terrorism. And CS, well, TeeJay got the point across pretty well. I think I'm going to have trouble levelling buildings next time I play any RTS games.

Also, a very subtle Simpsons reference in mourning of the great destruction of the Twin Towers.

posted 09-11-2001 10:10 PM
I'm guessing that war could and quite possibly will break out if that is all we can do. It's a terrorist attack, sure, but mess with the U.S. and you are going to get caught eventually. Sooner or later something will get uncovered that gives them away and they WILL get death, I guarantee. This does seem like a movie or novel. I live far away from there, but this could(although I doubt it) be nuclear war, and if gas hits $5 or $8 or any other astronomical estimate, it's bull. We aren't out yet, and we can get our oil somewhere else. If not, and there is a war, my bet is that it lasts 3 weeks at most. We had everyone in school watching this at 1 time or another, and grounding the airlines is 1 more victory for the terrorists. Gas prices shoot up and people end up broke is just another victory for terrorists. We don't need nuclear war or anything. A possible idea: Put a multi-billion dollar reward up for the guy who did it(probably Bin Laden but if not, we get them anyway), and his own men would turn him in. Everyone thinks: U.S.: just nuke them when you find them, but we don't need to.

- - - - -"If you put that post in 00bersig, you owe every post ever made by MK a 6-foot monument made of platinum." -StarCaliber"I'm pretty sure it says in there somewhere that Iron Tailing Mewtwos are half price." -UiruThis message will selfdestruct in 10 seconds.
From: Nowhere on a normal map | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged

posted 09-11-2001 10:19 PM
First off, I doubt we're going to war. Like numerous people have said, it was a terrorist's group, not a state. Bush said in his speech that he'd kick any state's (nation-state) ass, if they harbor terrorist's. All the countries we'd attack are in a sad state, and the war would last about 10 minutes. I doubt we're going to bomb any of these places like Iraq, because we're not trying to create moral unrest witht the leader. I'm too tired to say anything else, but this might be the biggest event that ever happens on US soil in our life times...remeber that.

posted 09-11-2001 10:48 PM
I don't live in the US. I don't intend to make out that I even understand or can fathom what has gone on.

There are going to be repurcussions of this. There have already been missiles on Afghanistan, and the American Military have denied their involvement in that.

This event is the most perfect smokescreen for a military operation this side of the new century. There are countries all over the world denying any involvement in the attack, and economies and governments all around the world literally on high alert, listening into the news from America.

posted 09-11-2001 11:09 PM
I've come to this thread late, but I still have some comments to add of my own...

To whoever that asshole said that he was afraid of being selected for the draft, what the hell is wrong with you??? I must say that I agree with President George W. Bush here in saying that not only were our buildings attacked, but our FREEDOM was attacked too. We are <I>the</I> country of the free, and we stand for all that is free...

We must stand up for ourselves! We cannot simply let anyone come here and blow us to bits. There is a reason that we are the only superpower in the world, and it <I>isn't</I> because we are pushovers. Whoever did this will pay.

I am NOT however responding to this with violence. I'm not saying that we just immediately go over and nuke up the entire Middle East. Then we would be no better to them. However, once we know who it is, and who has EVER helped them, then I WILL respond with violence. If they come foward, then I say, launch a full assault upon them, and whatever country they are in. Decalre WWIII, WWIV, WWV AND WWVI for all I care. Just get them off of the face of this earth.

I do not appologize for ANYTHING I have said, and if it offends you, then you can kindly kiss my ass. After you do so, then you may prcede to fuck yourself up the ass, then I will finally allow you to beg me to chop of whatever is left of you penis.