Spirituality

How did this wacked out religion get so big, and powerful ? It makes Christianity look tame in it's strange beliefs. Here is this guy Joseph Smith, and he has this acid trip of an experience, and he gains followers that seem to think it all makes total sense. I can't imagine the same thing happening today with a new revelation coming through some farm boy in Iowa. He would be locked up for being insane.

Originally posted by buckkyHow did this wacked out religion get so big, and powerful ? It makes Christianity look tame in it's strange beliefs. Here is this guy Joseph Smith, and he has this acid trip of an experience, and he gains followers that seem to think it all makes total sense. I can't imagine the same thing happening today with a new revelation coming through some farm boy in Iowa. He would be locked up for being insane.

Originally posted by buckkyHow did this wacked out religion get so big, and powerful ? It makes Christianity look tame in it's strange beliefs. Here is this guy Joseph Smith, and he has this acid trip of an experience, and he gains followers that seem to think it all makes total sense. I can't imagine the same thing happening today with a new revelation coming through some farm boy in Iowa. He would be locked up for being insane.

Originally posted by buckkyHow did this wacked out religion get so big, and powerful ? It makes Christianity look tame in it's strange beliefs. Here is this guy Joseph Smith, and he has this acid trip of an experience, and he gains followers that seem to think it all makes total sense. I can't imagine the same thing happening today with a new revelation coming through some farm boy in Iowa. He would be locked up for being insane.

What Joseph Smith experienced is the same as Joan D'Arc and countless others have experienced and misinterpreted as being "God" or some other "Divine Being".
They are mistaken.
It usually occurs when in meditation, prayer or any trancelike state. Contemplation of the metaphysical or the divine is the vehicle.
One is usually searching for an answer to questions which no answer can be found within the persons' knowledge or understanding.
When the person begins to receive "answers" to questions, the standard procedure is to immediately interpret these thru the individuals' own already established beliefs. This is the error.
Thus, many "Prophets of God" in widely varying belief systems.

Originally posted by caissad4What Joseph Smith experienced is the same as Joan D'Arc and countless others have experienced and misinterpreted as being "God" or some other "Divine Being".
They are mistaken.
It usually occurs when in meditation, prayer or any trancelike state. Contemplation of the metaphysical or the divine is the vehicle.
One is usually searching for an answer to que ...[text shortened]... any "Prophets of God" in widely varying belief systems.

We humans are a silly lot.

But you were not there, so how can you possibly know what Joseph Smith experienced?

Originally posted by stepnkevBut you were not there, so how can you possibly know what Joseph Smith experienced?

I have read of the experiences of many of these supposed "Godly" visions and found similarities to all and to my own experiences. Simple logic suggested either there were multiple divine beings or human misinterpretation was at work here. I do not know what this truly is, only what it is not.

Originally posted by caissad4I have read of the experiences of many of these supposed "Godly" visions and found similarities to all and to my own experiences. Simple logic suggested either there were multiple divine beings or human misinterpretation was at work here. I do not know what this truly is, only what it is not.

Simple logic suggests since you were not there at any of these experiences, you cannot know what they were or what they were not. All you can do is make assumptions but you can not "know" anything about them.

Originally posted by stepnkevSimple logic suggests since you were not there at any of these experiences, you cannot know what they were or what they were not. All you can do is make assumptions but you can not "know" anything about them.

You are using the logic of "Absolutes".
No one can truly claim to "know" anything within your logic.
The existence of anything cannot be absolutely proven.
I never claimed to know the exact nature or origin of these events but since I have experienced this I understand what it is not.
Perhaps in much the same way when things around us were slowly discovered to not be "God",i.e. the sun, planets, diseases, nature. etc. etc.

As far as I know, no one bore witness to the visions of Joan of arc, or Joseph Smith, so I agree that any of their miraculous contacts are harder to prove. But there are instances where witnesses WERE on hand (the visions of the children of Fatima, for example)--how does one explain those away?

Originally posted by caissad4You are using the logic of "Absolutes".
No one can truly claim to "know" anything within your logic.
The existence of anything cannot be absolutely proven.
I never claimed to know the exact nature or origin of these events but since I have experienced this I understand what it is not.
Perhaps in much the same way when things around us were slowly discovered to not be "God",i.e. the sun, planets, diseases, nature. etc. etc.

Because you made "absolute" statements without giving sufficient evidence to support them.

Originally posted by buckkyHow did this wacked out religion get so big, and powerful ? It makes Christianity look tame in it's strange beliefs. Here is this guy Joseph Smith, and he has this acid trip of an experience, and he gains followers that seem to think it all makes total sense. I can't imagine the same thing happening today with a new revelation coming through some farm boy in Iowa. He would be locked up for being insane.

You'd have to understand the American Primitivism movement of the late 1700's and early 1800's. Mormonism wasn't the only 'odd' Christian belief to propagate from this movement, which if I recall correctly was very hot in the New England area at the time. A lot of Christian beliefs came from that - Jehovah Witnesses, Millerites, Quakers, Shakers, etc.

An interesting piece of history (or not; if you don't think so then move on to interesting reading): Joseph Smith and his brother were killed by a mob and then some political fallout happens in the church. You see, the Mormons are highly patriarchal and the role of prophet and the head of the church was to fall on Joseph Smith's son, Joseph Smith Jr. Problem was, Junior was only about 13 when his dad died. Brigham Young noodled around for a couple of years and then decided that politics and power were more important than following the direction of the prophet, so he thusly decides that there's no reason for him not to be prophet and he took the majority of the followers out to Utah.

After about 20 years, Joseph Smith Jr. felt he was old enough and ready to lead those who stayed behind and were no doubt in a loose conferderation under his mother, Emma. In 1864 he began leading the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and his descendants headed that church until the 1990's, when Wallace B. Smith decided that there was nothing magical about his name and patriarchy, and allowed for non-Smiths to head the church. That church is known these days as the Community of Christ.

Originally posted by PinkFloydAs far as I know, no one bore witness to the visions of Joan of arc, or Joseph Smith, so I agree that any of their miraculous contacts are harder to prove. But there are instances where witnesses WERE on hand (the visions of the children of Fatima, for example)--how does one explain those away?

There is sworn testimony by several people that they saw the plates given to Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni. You can read it at mormon.org. I would also recommend you read the Book of Helaman at the same site.