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Thomann have changed the availability of the VPC-1 again. They had previously stated expected delivery of the next batch from Kawai as end of July. It's now changed to "expected delivery date is unfortunately unknown". I've been waiting 7 weeks for delivery of my order...so far.

I will be emailing Thomann later to see what happened to the end of July shipment. I seem to remember a few members are also waiting in Thomann for their Kawai VPC delivery. I will post the reply. Don't think I have waited this long for any piece of musical equipment before. Would appreciate any info regarding shipping dates from Kawai James.

Oh don't worry. The Japanese Seven Dwarfs are working hard to get your order out. It's worth waiting for. If you want, Kawai can send Snow White over to keep you company while you're waiting. She's lonely with the Dwarfs working so much overtime. Poor James is supposed to know shipping dates? Gee... You think you've been waiting long. I've been waiting longer on my Godzilla Metronome.

I'm actually interested in chatting to anyone who has imported a VPC1 into Australia. They aren't available here, and I'm trying to gauge a suitable on-line seller and to hear other's experiences. It really irritates me that Kawai doesn't import all the models into the country, even as a special order.

Hi STNG, you might be better off importing from Asia. I have scoured European online music retailers for a stock VPC-1, no one as any real clue when they will get any stock. Most retailers first response is 2-3 days, then they back off when questioned.

Thanks for the advice, Eggman. I've been reading about latency issues with computer based pianos, and that's making me nervous. I basically want a great action coupled to great sounds, but noticeable latency would make all that pointless. I can't seem to get a sense that latency is good enough to make the VPC1 something I'd buy sight unseen. Can anyone chip in with personal experience?

Hi stng, I think it does depend on the type of computer you are trying to run a piano off. I have a 2009 27" i5 iMac and I can run kontakt and a large Imperfect Samples Faziolli grand piano without a feeling of lag. On the other hand I spent most of the early 2000's battling to get low latency on various windows PC and soundcards and never quite achieved a satisfactory result. I believe it is now possible but like I say I moved to a Mac back in 09. What I did learn at the end was it was mostly about the quality of the sound driver supplied with your audio card or external audio module. One thing for sure is the VPC-1 will not make the latency on your setup any worse so it is completely possible to test out running a software piano with your current set up and and without a VPC-1 to see if you can feel a lag.

Thanks for the advice, Eggman. I've been reading about latency issues with computer based pianos, and that's making me nervous. I basically want a great action coupled to great sounds, but noticeable latency would make all that pointless. I can't seem to get a sense that latency is good enough to make the VPC1 something I'd buy sight unseen. Can anyone chip in with personal experience?

My personal experience is that I did jump in with both feet and have never had a latency problem.

Now, having said that ... I purchased the recommended equipment (and then some).... a fast computer with a fast internal hard drive and a reasonably good audio interface. If you do that, I don't see a problem for you.

On the other hand, if you try to get by on the cheap ... you may run in to some issues that you have to work out ... meaning buy better equipment.

Some of the computer gurus on this site can tell you they are running and OLD COMPUTER from the early 60's with this and that attached and it works fine. Well, that may be ... but I wanted to avoid headaches. So, I got good stuff and never had a problem.

Note: An inexpensive way to get started with things is to download the demo version of Pianoteq and try it out with your present digital piano attached to the computer via MIDI and see how it goes. You do not need the VPC1 to see if your computer system is going to be good enough.

Hello Eggman,Ok! it is true that we had a lot of luck ... Qbert thank you again;) and if the can help you: the VPC1 well worth that one patient.

A musician friend came to see me this Sunday (he owns a beautiful upright piano (130 cm H, I think) he had to pay it € 15,000) and despite everything, he was completely overwhelmed by the quality the VPC1 touch ...

Something else, I reported in another post I had this sensation of feeling the vibrations of the strings and the impact of hammers... well I confirm what I already knew: I 'm not crazy and this feeling (quite extraordinary I admit) is quite real.

What i mean by this, is that if i want to buy an instrument, i send this man to try it before... and this is the first time I bought a "big" thing without trying ... and you know what: I made a great purchase, and if I had to wait 2/3 months to get it, think it's worth the wait ...

Imagine that you will meet one of the great love of your life ... after a long wait: you'll like it even more

Thanks for the guidance, guys. I didn't think of testing it with my current piano. That would really reassure me. I'll do that first and report back on my experience for others who might be in the same boat.

A musician friend came to see me this Sunday (he owns a beautiful upright piano (130 cm H, I think) he had to pay it € 15,000) and despite everything, he was completely overwhelmed by the quality the VPC1 touch ...

There never has been any doubt, at least in my mind, about the quality of the keyboard touch in the VPC1. After all, it is a Kawai. That is one of their main claims to fame, at least in the digital area.

The only question, for me, is whether I can find a way to get a quality sound out of what I attach that VPC1 to. I have tried many of the software products and have yet to find one that I would be willing to keep as my one and only sound.

There are many possible reasons for that and my sound chain from generation to AIR is probably flawed. But, in any event, if I had to rely solely on software for sound, I am afraid I would not be a happy camper.

But, if you can, then ... absolutely ... the VPC1 is a winner for you. And, hopefully ... the software sounds should be improving with each new generation of sounds. You can just sit back with your VPC1 and enjoy the ride.

However, I encourage you to remain patient while the back-orders are filled. As noted previously, production has been ramped-up significantly, however it takes a while for things to filter through the system.

Your VPC1 is out there somewhere - either at the factory being assembled, or inside a shipping container bound for Europe - and once you receive it, I'm confident the lengthy wait will be thoroughly worthwhile.

Well, I said I'd report back on the experience of trying a software piano, and so I am.

I connected my Yamaha P-85 through a USB-MIDI interface to my iMac (3.2Ghz i5, 16GB DDR3 RAM, Fusion drive). I installed Pianoteq4 and used the default piano. I fed the output through (a) the computer's internal speakers, (b) a pair of Beyerdynamic DT880 headphones and (c) via Airplay to an AppleTV and from there to a Linn Majik DSI driving a pair of Martin Logan Theos Electrostatics.

In all cases, I used a sample rate of 96KHz, an audiobuffer size of 128 samples (1.3ms) and a maximum polyphony of 256.

To test the CPU load, I held the sustain down and ran right along the key board. I got a polyphony of about 200, without any appreciable CPU load. I was attempting to see whether I could overload the CPU, introducing any artefacts.

In cases (a) and (b), there was no perceptible latency. I figure that the expected latency from a real piano to my ears would be approximately 1/700th of a second, or about 1.4ms. The only latency I detected was in case (c), and that was to do with the Airplay feed to the AppleTV.

The sound was a big step up from my P-85 internal sound. I also tested the sound by downloading some midi files from midiworld.com (Chopin and Beethoven samples), and the sound through my speakers (c) was fantastic. It felt like I had a piano in the room, although it wasn't perhaps as loud a real piano might have been.

All in all, a successful test.

I expect that the quality of the sound I'm hearing is impacted by the audio engine in the iMac (including the DAC) and the USB link. If I fed bit perfect data out to my amp, which has a much better DAC, it would probably sound better.

I'm not sure whether I'd get the same performance from a sample based software package (such as Ivory II), and I'm not sure whether the it would sound better either. But Pianoteq certainly works well.

Which all means that the VPC1 looks like a viable option. Now I only have to figure out what powered speakers I should use and how to get bit perfect data out of the iMac.

According to the Kraft Music website in the US (as of just now), the VPC1 is in stock. They also offer free shipping. The other US source, Sweetwater, doesn't have it in stock yet. They also don't offer free shipping on the pianos they don't have.

To test the CPU load, I held the sustain down and ran right along the key board. I got a polyphony of about 200, without any appreciable CPU load. I was attempting to see whether I could overload the CPU, introducing any artefacts.

Originally Posted By: stng

In cases (a) and (b), there was no perceptible latency. I figure that the expected latency from a real piano to my ears would be approximately 1/700th of a second, or about 1.4ms.

From piano to the ears takes much more than 1.4 msec. The strings-to-ear transit might be around that figure. But the hammer transit time is a good deal more. The total exceeds 10 msec, if memory serves. (There was a reference here, some time ago, to a scholarly paper on the subject. Worth a look.)

Originally Posted By: stng

The sound was a big step up from my P-85 internal sound.

It's probably a big step up from ANY digital piano, bar none.

Originally Posted By: stng

I'm not sure whether I'd get the same performance from a sample based software package (such as Ivory II), and I'm not sure whether the it would sound better either. But Pianoteq certainly works well.

I think Pianoteq is okay, but I prefer the sampled pianos. You should give them a try. I like the sound of the Galaxy series pianos. And they don't overload my computer. (I've not tried the Ivory II.)

Hi Eggman, you seem such a pain and I would like to help you. I've just called Merula, where both imyself and I bought our VPC1. Salesman says that other one or two keyboards might arrive around the end of July. He will call me when they become available. I let you know.

I'm afraid that we are not planning to release the VPC1 in Australia, because the demand here has been very low. On the other hand, I would recommend that you consider the MP10 - it is essentially the same board, with the addition of a very powerful sound engine, audio inputs and outputs, pitch bend/mod wheel - and it's only a few hundred dollars more than the VPC1 would have been (RRP was estimated at AUS$2,895 [(US$2700)] )

The cheapest street price for an MP10 I have found is AUS$3150 (US$2950). The VPC-1 street price would probably mid $2K.

Can anyone offer advice on those of us in Australia lusting after the VPC-1? (or a cheaper MP10?)

If they are not going to release the VPC , the high end MP is indeed the most similar board. However , the MP10 has the somewhat older RM keybed without a third sensor. Also the extended touch curves and touch curve editor are not available for the MP10. If you're not in a hurry, I'd sit this one out and wait for the next generation of MP boards somewhere in the future. Otherwise a CA-15 cabinet piano has the same keybed as the VPC1. So if that is available in Australia, it could be an alternative. Again without dedicated touchcurves for software piano's , which is a VPC specific feature, but with added bonus of build-in speakers and internal sounds.

Thomann will ship to Australia for a flat rate of €50. They are selling the vpc1 for €1325 so the total to Australia would be €1375, 1857.35 US dollars, which according to my calculator is 1983.50 Australian dollars.

It is 29.5kg which is just within the 30kg limit for this cheap fifty euro flat shipping rate....sounds like a very good deal to me.

Kawai Australia kind of stinks. Sorry, man. They are also presumably the ones who set the price points. If it makes you feel better I've got some complaints about Kawai US as well (no CA-15 or CA-13, for example).

Unfortunately the autonomy/flexibility given these distributors/subsidiaries hurts the end user, but there's nothing we can do about it.

I am so up for that, but Thomann is out of stock until November and I can't wait that long.

It's certainly pushing brand loyalty. Kawai probably makes the VPC1's just north of here in Indonesia but to get one it has to go on a trip round the world.

I've set my heart on a Kawai until now as my sister has one of their beautiful acoustic grands, but what's with this Australian "sucker born every minute" pricing? If the ES7 can be on par with the US and Europe why does the rest of the range attract a 50% loading?

Here's my theory, for what it's worth. Kawai Australia's business model is set up to distribute high value, low turnover, very heavy APs imported in bulk by container ship and which spend years depreciating in dealerships before they are sold. The lighter DPs/portables parasitise AP sales. To keep the slow moving APs in stores the DPs must cross-subsidise them. DPs could be imported by air individually without great expense from a single just-in-time plant, but the AP business would wither. The amount of cross-subsidy is dependent on the demand for APs. Australia is a small AP market requiring higher subsidy. So the company does everything it can to stop customers in highly subsidised markets from importing a keyboard from a lower one. The solution ought to be that APs are priced to reflect the cost of their capital sitting around in a warehouse, or to reduce inventories and put up with months-long delivery times from the factory.

The Canadian market is served by Kawai America, so it should be possible to purchase this model. However, I'm afraid I do not know if dealers will have the board available to play-test on the shop floor - it's a specialist product that requires additional hardware and software in order to demo effectively.

My recommendation would be to contact Kawai America in order to double-check the VPC1 pricing and availability in Canada.

What Kawai James said - I don't think you will find a store that will setup a demo. The one chain in Vancouver that sells Kawai digitals never got back to me as to whether they are going to carry the VPC1. My guess is that they will probably never carry them.

I ordered from Streetwater to get mine. That will probably be your best bet but not the solution if you want to try it first.

Well, I finally did it. I ordered the VPC1 and at a 15% discount. But I'm not ecstatic about it. Why not? I still doubt the VCP1's availability and that I will see one for at least another three months. Why?

I did it through Guitar Center and on the day I saw the ad at their site it read "available October 11." When the store manager looked it up at the store, his system said "available October 18" and, in red, "1". He informed me that this one wasn't certain to have my name on it, as someone might have done a transaction before mine and I wouldn't know until the 18th when I would get an email from GC,if and only if, I was the lucky recipient.

If I didn't get the email, I'd have to come in and talk to them about the status of the next shipment from Kawai. "It could be 2 weeks, it could be 6 months." In the meantime, my money would be frozen but I would be assured the discount whenever it came. Or I could cancel the order any time and have my money unfrozen.

I'm pretty sure I didn't win the lottery, and I've been checking GC's vcp1 ad every day and every day the date moves up by one day for when the new supply can be expected.

Any ideas, Kawai James, as to what's going on at GC and what I should expect?

Any ideas, Kawai James, as to what's going on at GC and what I should expect?

Starr Keys, I'm afraid I don't have a great deal of information regarding instrument availability in the US. After double-check with Guitar Centre staff, the best people to ask would be Kawai America directly, via the following means:

I've set my heart on a Kawai until now as my sister has one of their beautiful acoustic grands, but what's with this Australian "sucker born every minute" pricing? If the ES7 can be on par with the US and Europe why does the rest of the range attract a 50% loading?

Here's my theory, for what it's worth. Kawai Australia's business model is set up to distribute high value, low turnover, very heavy APs imported in bulk by container ship and which spend years depreciating in dealerships before they are sold. The lighter DPs/portables parasitise AP sales. To keep the slow moving APs in stores the DPs must cross-subsidise them. DPs could be imported by air individually without great expense from a single just-in-time plant, but the AP business would wither. The amount of cross-subsidy is dependent on the demand for APs. Australia is a small AP market requiring higher subsidy. So the company does everything it can to stop customers in highly subsidised markets from importing a keyboard from a lower one. The solution ought to be that APs are priced to reflect the cost of their capital sitting around in a warehouse, or to reduce inventories and put up with months-long delivery times from the factory.

The Australian "sucker born every minute" pricing is prevalent across all retail products, not just pianos, but yeah, it's obscene how we have the highest prices anywhere in the world. If they offer even Japanese retail prices + shipping for ANY product in the range, with the proviso we have to wait for it to be delivered in the next shipment, I will gladly wait.

Don't get me wrong, I reckon Kawai Japan make some of the best pianos, DP and AP, I'm just not at all impressed with Kawai Australia. Personally, if I can save thousands of dollars by importing, even after paying for freight and insurance and GST, I can afford to pay for any problems that may crop up (especially given that Kawai products are usually of great quality from the factory anyway). And as some other forum members can attest, it's not like Kawai Australia bend over backwards to deal with warranty issues anyway (in fact quite the contrary).

Any ideas, Kawai James, as to what's going on at GC and what I should expect?

Starr Keys, I'm afraid I don't have a great deal of information regarding instrument availability in the US. After double-check with Guitar Centre staff, the best people to ask would be Kawai America directly, via the following means:

Thanks, James, I will, but after reading the last post, waiting a few months at the price GC is offering doesn't seem quite as bad. It's their deceptive advertising that bothers me. I checked their ad again this morning -- sure enough, the availability date has moved up another day. They must have an automatic timer set on it.

HelloI have just received a notification email from sweetwater saying that the VPC1 is now available (I was looking for availability before I got mine 2 weeks ago but in Europe)Hope GC will also get some as probably a batch has arrived in US.

HelloI have just received a notification email from sweetwater saying that the VPC1 is now available (I was looking for availability before I got mine 2 weeks ago but in Europe)Hope GC will also get some as probably a batch has arrived in US.

Thanks, enzo. I appreciate the heads up and good wishes. I hope you are enjoying your new VPC.

I am a new user to this forum, but have been following comments on the Kawai VPC1 since some time.

Thanks to all for their contributions, and thanks to Kawai for their effort in developing this very sober and minimalistic master keyboard. It seemed to be exactly what I have been looking for, and probably si very close.

I am living in Europe and had made good experience with the mail order store Thomann before. They have excellent service and respond quickly to mails.

To make a long story short, I had a VPC1 on order at Thomann since about 6 weeks and was very happy to receive a notification that mine was shipped two days ago. Today I received it, two weeks in advance with respect to their pessimistic availability estimation of 30/10.

Unfortunately its seems to have been damaged in transit. Only half of the keys (half:distributed in a weird pattern) is working, both over USB and MIDI. Only later did I notice, that the front panel below the keyboard has some traces of an impact, even though the box was in rather acceptable state. I want to believe that this is bad luck, unfortunately its my unit - lets hope that we can get this sorted quickly with Thomann and that I can get hands on a working unit soon!

However, the main reason why I registered, and why I am posting here is some observation on the keyboard itself:

As expected, the unit looks great.

The white keys look nice, the touch feels great, even though a little stickier than real ivory, and even though the wood below seems to be of fairly low density, course grain and a with a finish a little on the rough side. But the touch is very real. There is something that is hard to describe about wooden keys. The distributed mass. The full feel. The good absorption of high frequency components, like a fingernail hitting the keytop. And the way the acceleration is transmitted. And the pin pivots with bushings, instead of the rotary pivots on more common digital pianos. Despite the reportedly short key-length or key- lever, the white keys feel very real. I think I will like it.

This is however in extreme contrast to the sharp keys. The sharp keys have a rough matte appearance instead of a satin finish or dull polished finish as on more modern instruments that immediately struck my eyes. It appears that the sharp keys have plastic keytops. Why? They feel hollow, like on average digital pianos. They do not have the distinguished feel and connectedness that I immediately perceived on the white keys. High frequency components resulting from fingers sliding on the keys or fingernails hitting the black keys are immediately heard and felt. Its still like on any good digital piano, but spoils the overall feel. Yet what is really close to annoying is the fair finish of the transition of the plastic keytops to the wooden key lever below. They are flush on the left and have a rough transition on the right. Its easily felt when depressing the white key in between two sharp keys. Why? Even worse is the alignment of the front of the plastic keytops on the sharp keys. Its just a question of manufacture and quality control with a given design and materials. I hope the fair finish is not the consequence of the apparently unexpected success and demand of this keyboard...? In addition, the sharp keys feel a little on the slim side, but I am by no means an expert. Its to a point, that if I had a working unit - I would consider to re-cap the sharp keys with wood or more decent plastic keytops, if there is any chance to get the mass balance and the regulation of the action right, and if they turn out to be of standard dimension!

So there is a little disappointment of the black keys, that I wanted to share as it was so striking to me. I would really appreciate if Kawai James could comment.

In contrast to others, I found the music stand to be of great design and in good position even though well too small and I would prefer a flat instead of a concave bottom rest.

Three pedals! And they squeal! Not that this is good, but many very fine acoustic grands do that....

Well these are my first impressions, in the meanwhile I hope for a comment by Kawai James and fast replacement by Thomann and many happy hours with the VPC1. I really want to love it.

my88keys, I'm sorry to hear that your VPC1 arrived in damaged condition. I hope you can receive a replacement from Thomann as soon as possible.

Regarding your queries, it is difficult for me to comment as my responsibilities at Kawai are limited to owner's manual creation (although not the VPC1 manual, as it happened) and international marketing.

The vast majority of VPC1 owners find it to be the highest quality and most realistic keyboard action they have ever played in a controller instrument. I am confident that you will have the same opinion upon receiving your undamaged replacement from Thomann.

This is however in extreme contrast to the sharp keys. The sharp keys have a rough matte appearance instead of a satin finish or dull polished finish as on more modern instruments that immediately struck my eyes. It appears that the sharp keys have plastic keytops. Why? They feel hollow, like on average digital pianos. They do not have the distinguished feel and connectedness that I immediately perceived on the white keys. High frequency components resulting from fingers sliding on the keys or fingernails hitting the black keys are immediately heard and felt. Its still like on any good digital piano, but spoils the overall feel. Yet what is really close to annoying is the fair finish of the transition of the plastic keytops to the wooden key lever below. They are flush on the left and have a rough transition on the right. Its easily felt when depressing the white key in between two sharp keys. Why? Even worse is the alignment of the front of the plastic keytops on the sharp keys. Its just a question of manufacture and quality control with a given design and materials. I hope the fair finish is not the consequence of the apparently unexpected success and demand of this keyboard...?

Thank you my88Keys. I had the same worry about them cutting corners to keep up with demand. If it makes you feel any better, I remember some of the recipients of the first batch (before they ran out in the Us and Europe) talked about the black keys being rough at first but then smoothing out after a short period of use. But I don't recall them discussing the difference in the sides or mentioning the problematic alignment at the front. If any of the owners who placed early orders(Vid, I believe is one) read our posts, I hope they will respond and allay our fears (or, if need be, confirm them).

The white keys look nice, the touch feels great, even though a little stickier than real ivory, and even though the wood below seems to be of fairly low density, course grain and a with a finish a little on the rough side.

I would think the low density would be an advantage, as long as rigidity wasn't compromised. You mention rough finish. I find on my unit that the sides of the white keys are a little rough, i.e., not sanded to a furniture finish, though I don't see it as affecting anything. As to coarse grain, the keys seem to be of a plywood consisting of 16 very regular layers of wood laminated together. Maybe you are mistaking the layers for wood grain.

Originally Posted By: my88keys

This is however in extreme contrast to the sharp keys. The sharp keys have a rough matte appearance instead of a satin finish or dull polished finish as on more modern instruments that immediately struck my eyes.

I'm not a skilled player, but my experience is that the roughness of the black keys has helped keep my fingers stable on them.

Originally Posted By: my88keys

It appears that the sharp keys have plastic keytops. Why?

Maybe so the wooden part of the black keys would have the same height dimension as that of the white keys, and not require another 12 layers or so of lamination, just to have most of it machined off from the rear of the key. There might also be a risk that those top laminations under the plastic keycap could break off. Just a guess.

Originally Posted By: my88keys

Yet what is really close to annoying is the fair finish of the transition of the plastic keytops to the wooden key lever below. They are flush on the left and have a rough transition on the right. Its easily felt when depressing the white key in between two sharp keys. Why? Even worse is the alignment of the front of the plastic keytops on the sharp keys.

I don't understand the term "fair finish". Do you mean, "not perfect finish"? As to the front of the black keytops, those on my unit seem to be aligned perfectly. Maybe the unevenness you see is the result of the damage that has your unit not working right.

In any case, too bad about getting a bad one. I hope you get your replacement soon!

I would think the low density would be an advantage, as long as rigidity wasn't compromised. You mention rough finish. I find on my unit that the sides of the white keys are a little rough, i.e., not sanded to a furniture finish, though I don't see it as affecting anything. As to coarse grain, the keys seem to be of a plywood consisting of 16 very regular layers of wood laminated together. Maybe you are mistaking the layers for wood grain.

Well spotted! There I was thinking Kawai had sourced a tree famous for its perfectly even grain but it's ply! At least this guarantees stability and they can still call it wood.

Originally Posted By: joflah

Originally Posted By: my88keys

This is however in extreme contrast to the sharp keys. The sharp keys have a rough matte appearance instead of a satin finish or dull polished finish as on more modern instruments that immediately struck my eyes.

I'm not a skilled player, but my experience is that the roughness of the black keys has helped keep my fingers stable on them.

Is the idea here to simulate ivory and a grainier woodier finish for a fake ebony on the black keys? Both finishes work well to my eyes and fingers.

Quote:

Quote:

It appears that the sharp keys have plastic keytops. Why?

Maybe so the wooden part of the black keys would have the same height dimension as that of the white keys, and not require another 12 layers or so of lamination, just to have most of it machined off from the rear of the key. There might also be a risk that those top laminations under the plastic keycap could break off. Just a guess.

My upright has the same scheme - the entire top of the black key is plastic, just like the vpc1.

Quote:

Quote:

Yet what is really close to annoying is the fair finish of the transition of the plastic keytops to the wooden key lever below. They are flush on the left and have a rough transition on the right. Its easily felt when depressing the white key in between two sharp keys. Why? Even worse is the alignment of the front of the plastic keytops on the sharp keys.

I don't understand the term "fair finish". Do you mean, "not perfect finish"? As to the front of the black keytops, those on my unit seem to be aligned perfectly. Maybe the unevenness you see is the result of the damage that has your unit not working right.

It appears there's a QC issue, maybe some corner-cutting on the production line with the final sanding. My unit is cosmetically well finished, no hairy grain. I'd certainly be troubled by the asymmetry on my88's black key-tops - that's bad news.

It appears there's a QC issue, maybe some corner-cutting on the production line with the final sanding. My unit is cosmetically well finished, no hairy grain. I'd certainly be troubled by the asymmetry on my88's black key-tops - that's bad news.

Thanks Joflah and dire tonic for your responses. If I find these flaws in my unit (if I ever get it), at least having purchased it from GC I can return it without charge to a nearby store. I advise others to make sure they can do the same.

I didn't and still don't notice any such flaws on my unit. The black keys are obviously wood and if there is a plastic cap on them I sure can't tell. It looks to me like the whole key is one piece of wood and that's it.

Sorry that your experience has been marred by these problems. I wonder if the problem stems from a rush to fill orders?

Oh they're teasing me! Those SOB's at Sweetwater. They say: "It's in Stock!" "Available for immediate delivery!" Grumble....Grumble...Grumble... "Due to special circumstances. This item does not qualify for free delivery."

What might those special circumstances be? Shipping straight from Kawai?

Oh they're teasing me! Those SOB's at Sweetwater. They say: "It's in Stock!" "Available for immediate delivery!" Grumble....Grumble...Grumble... "Due to special circumstances. This item does not qualify for free delivery."

What might those special circumstances be? Shipping straight from Kawai?

So the amount they marked it down covers the delivery?

"Special circumstances" - it's VERY heavy!

So, you're softening yourself up for one of these, eh, Ron?

But think about it, with a VPC1, stick a cigar in your mouth and you'll be flying through Joplin's Entertainer, hands ablur.

But think about it, with a VPC1, stick a cigar in your mouth and you'll be flying through Joplin's Entertainer, hands ablur.

I've been lusting for one of these since they announced it. My problem is ... I is a poor boy.

Gee... I need to get the cigars out of my mouth. Seriously... My M8000 is still doing pretty good. I do have to admit that I need to get on cleaning the contacts. Haven't done that yet. Thinking about using Trichloroethane instead of rubbing alcohol. I still have a little of a gallon I took when they banned it. That should eliminate the two day wait on them drying. Right now my dynamic range is...lets say....clumsy.

Oh...and I might get myself a Brown Derby. My father told me several times, whenever we saw that restaurant in LA. He always wanted a Brown Derby but never had the nerve to buy himself one. I might partly in memory of him.

As to coarse grain, the keys seem to be of a plywood consisting of 16 very regular layers of wood laminated together. Maybe you are mistaking the layers for wood grain.

Hi joflah,

good observation, the white keys on mine are indeed of laminated wood. I would tend to consider this a technical advantage actually. It keeps all the good properties of wood, yet makes the keys insensitive or at least less sensitive to bending by moisture.

(I would love to add a picture of the lamination that I just took, but this requires unfortunately having it somewhere online...)

Just received my VPC1 today. Bought it sight-unseen, ordered it Saturday over the internet and it arrived FedEx today.I couldn't be happier. I previously had one of the first-generation MP8's that was OK but I really didn't want all the bells and whistles, so I sold it. I'm using it with Pianoteq. The VPC1 is a big improvement over the MP8, in my opinion.They are available out there, if you look around, or maybe I just lucked out.

Can you elaborate on this? I happen to own a first generation MP8 and am contemplating upgrading. I'd love to hear any more specific comments on the VPC1 or especially specific comparisons between them.

I'm not 100% sure on this one. Are you sure those are laminations? I think it would actually be difficult and expensive to laminate tiny shivs of wood like that. I think that's the natural grain of a solid piece of wood cut with the grain.

My MP8 looks kind of like this but I'm pretty sure it's not laminated.

Laminated wood is an industrial product, very similar to the picture of the key, I don't know if it is expensive, anyway vpc1 is not the cheapest thing I've seen in my life...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plywood EDIT:

gvfarns:Several reasons I like the VPC1 better. For one thing, it's much cleaner, without all the knobs and sliders. I only wanted a good practice piano and not a full-fledged keyboard, the MP8 was all I could get at the time.(I wanted a CA-X but they were no longer available). I was never that happy with the piano sound I got, and I didn't have any interest in the other sounds, or the pitch and mod wheels, etc. Obviously this is personal preference.The action is definitely better and the keytops are nicer. The sound is more realistic with the Pianoteq. I suppose some of the sampled pianos are maybe even better, but Pianoteq is really good.And, the VPC1 is cheaper - I was actually able to get it for what I sold the MP8 for. Downside of course it that you are limited to an external sound generator (wouldn't have to be a computer - I still have a Proteus 2000 that works fine with it). And I know a lot of folks have been disappointed that it didn't have pitch and mod wheels.

Laminated wood is an industrial product, very similar to the picture of the key, I don't know if it is expensive, anyway vpc1 is not the cheapest thing I've seen in my life...

You might be right, and it's probably not more expensive than whole wood. I have had my keys off the piano before and I had the impression that they were straight up chunks of whole wood, but looking very closely they have lines not unlike what I see here. My impression is that it is the grain. I'd have to open it up to get a real good look.

James, do you know if the keys in the VPC1 and other Kawai wood digital actions use laminated wood?

If it is laminated. Bear in mind that anything pressed can be much better than it used to be. That is before the Shuttle blew up. The result of that is they created much better seals. The seals on pistons can up the hydraulic piston to much higher pressures. Resulting in much higher quality of anything pressed. One other example is those fake diamonds. Zircunoias? They are so good now that it isn't easy for an expert to tell the difference.

I don’t have any inside expertise on laminate but I’ve used ply for years in DIY jobs and it can evidently be of very varying quality. From the naked eye I thought the keys were of unusually straight and even grained timber but after joflah’s post a closer look reveals what I’m absolutely certain can only be laminate, albeit probably high grade and maybe even more costly than kiln-dried timber (seasoned these days? I wouldn’t know). The give-away – although I’d be interested if there’s another explanation - is that the direction of the ‘grain’ is unfalteringly parallel to the top of the key, along its entire length. Every key has this property. I doubt there’s a tree in existence that could show this characteristic so consistently. Even with well behaved timber one would expect costlier preparation and considerable wastage when trying to set it up in such a way that milling starts exactly 100% parallel to the grain direction, then only to find that the direction dips or rises a few degrees - as it would naturally, in waves - a short distance down its length.

The benefit of using ply with so many layers (more than a dozen or so here?) is that resistance to warping is guaranteed down to probably a few microns per length.

(not quite as clear as my88's pic, but you see the same entirely parallel chunk)

On mine - lets say the one that used to be mine and no goes back for replacement because of the transport damage- there are two darker more dense looking layers just below the ivory touch keytop on all keys...! So there might be different versions out there...?

In addition maybe some disambiguation:

For me, plywood is cross-lamianted. And comes indeed in very varying qualities.

The keys of my VPC1 were parallel laminated if they were - yet I still think they were. And they looked very even.

Still don't like the black keytops hundred percent though. Are they plastic on all units? Any input?

Hope to get a "new sample" soon! Because in the end I just want to play it.

ok, I was talking so much about the black keys, that I feel I should substantiate my impression with pictures, so everyone can get their own idea - and maybe comment on observations on their VPC1. Without any further judgement, three pictures of the black keys / keytops on the unit that I received:

James, do you know if the keys in the VPC1 and other Kawai wood digital actions use laminated wood?

Yes, all Kawai DPs with wooden keys use laminated wood as the basic material for the key stick.

As others above have mentioned, laminated wood is typically stronger than solid wood, and less susceptible to shrinking, swelling, and warping as a result of moisture and temperature changes. Therefore, it's ideally suited to the keys of a keyboard.

my88keys, I tend to think close-up pictures often make a situation appear worse than it truly is. The images of the example keys you posted above are not terribly good, however I believe the vast majority of wooden key actions have a smoother join between the wooden key base and Ivory Touch key top.

I hope you receive a replacement for the board that was damaged during transit soon.

On mine - lets say the one that used to be mine and no goes back for replacement because of the transport damage- there are two darker more dense looking layers just below the ivory touch keytop on all keys...! So there might be different versions out there...?

In addition maybe some disambiguation:

For me, plywood is cross-lamianted. And comes indeed in very varying qualities.

The keys of my VPC1 were parallel laminated if they were - yet I still think they were. And they looked very even.

Still don't like the black keytops hundred percent though. Are they plastic on all units? Any input?

Hope to get a "new sample" soon! Because in the end I just want to play it.

my88keys

yes, it's a VPC1. I'd expect laminate to be variable in it's composition. Providing there are an 'adequate' number of layers, the thickness of each layer doesn't really matter when the finished key is cut to size anyway. Supposedly, different batches of laminate will have some thicker, some thinner layers.

Point taken about cross-grain. I guess you're right, laminate isn't necessarily alternate sheets with grain at right-angles.

Your black keys don't look quite as bad in the photo as I'd imagined from your description. A bit shoddy on the finish but not drastically out of alignment.

ok, I was talking so much about the black keys, that I feel I should substantiate my impression with pictures, so everyone can get their own idea - and maybe comment on observations on their VPC1. Without any further judgement, three pictures of the black keys / keytops on the unit that I received:

my88keys

I just checked my new CA65 black keys and they are exactly like these ones, some with a better finish, some a bit rougher, but all joints are hidden by the height of the white keys, the line is under the visible level of the keybed. They are only visible when you get very close or when you use aumentation as those close up photos. There is a black material for the top of the key, which is the visible part, and at the bottom there is a black stained wooden part, which is not really visible.

I hadn't even noticed this until I saw your photos, but the touch and sound is as nice with the black keys as with the white ones, which is the most important thing for me.

Sorry to hear about the delivery issue, I hope they will send you a replacement soon. Never tried a VPC-1, and wonder if the RM3 Grand II action is better than the CA series GF.

I think to remember, that there was a long and well documented discussion on the different Kawai actions, and that (your) GF is top of the line. Mainly due to the longer length of the keytop to pivot length. In consequence the force needed for the same hammer acceleration does not vary as much over the useable keylength. I further believe to remember guesses, that the GF would remain reserved for the top of the line models.

I think to remember, that there was a long and well documented discussion on the different Kawai actions, and that (your) GF is top of the line. Mainly due to the longer length of the keytop to pivot length. In consequence the force needed for the same hammer acceleration does not vary as much over the useable keylength. I further believe to remember guesses, that the GF would remain reserved for the top of the line models.

Hi my88keys, Many thanks for the link, I was just wondering because the CA95 and CA65 had the best touch and feel I could find (mind you, I haven't even tried a DP over 4KGBP, but those are completely out of my league anyway). I did try fast repetitions, at least as fast as I could manage, but really still years for me to be able to play very complicated pieces. I was very happy with the response, so I know that it will be able to handle all my playing levels.

Hello,ok, I was talking so much about the black keys, that I feel I should substantiate my impression with pictures, so everyone can get their own idea - and maybe comment on observations on their VPC1. Without any further judgement, three pictures of the black keys / keytops on the unit that I received:my88keys

my88keys, Here is a picture of the black keycap joins on my unit. They do seem a little smoother than those on the unit you received:

Hi JFP,I enjoy seeing others looking critically at their units and reporting, but I would have regrets in bashing Kawai or the VPC1 for this. Its one detail of a complex product. They have done a lot for us by offering this model at this price point. Yet as a constructive message, I personally would probably still buy it if it was 200 Euro more expensive and with real wood keytops on the sharp keys or 100 Euro more if the plastic would either cleanly wrap around the edges of the wooden keysticks or was perfectly flush. And I would surely pay even more if it had all this and was based on the GF action...

I was horrified today when I checked Guitar Center's website for the latest expected VCP1 availability and discovered it was no longer listed at their website. I had ordered it from them on October 11 and was still waiting. The last time I checked the listing for it the date expected was 12/6, but now they weren't listing it in their inventory at all. Then I checked my email and to my astonishment, there was an email dated this morning from GC saying "your order has been shipped."

I may have gotten the last one Kawai shipped to them before GC decided the supply issues were not going to work for them. Or maybe it's a return. Either way, I'm just hoping and praying that it will arrive undamaged, but at least I can return it easily enough if it doesn't.

Starr Keys, I do not know why the VPC1 is no longer listed on the Guitar Center website (this is really a matter for my colleagues at Kawai American), however I expect it is indeed related to limited availability in North America. Guitar Center may have already sold their shipment of VPC1 units for the month, so removed the product listing to prevent further back-orders.

Could very well be exemplary. Perhaps it was a monday morning and some of the people at the assembly line weren't fully awake yet...

I wasn't inventing facts, just guessing what may have happened. Slip in one unit in the production line is what I was pointing at. About the change in production ; see the several question marks that accompanied that...

About the change in production ; see the several question marks that accompanied that...

Yes, I can interpret this to mean unsubstantiated speculation, however another reader may interpret it as fact. That person may then go on to re-post this point elsewhere ("I heard that the production method has changed in order to keep-up with demand"), and the mis-information continues to spread throughout the internet.

This is why I believe it's important to discredit any incorrect information as soon as it is posted.

BTW; any Dutchies (Netherlands, region South&North- Holland) around still shopping for a VPC1? I had one reserved but changed it for a CA. It's now in stock at my music dealer at a fair price. PM me if interested.

Starr Keys, I do not know why the VPC1 is no longer listed on the Guitar Center website (this is really a matter for my colleagues at Kawai American), however I expect it is indeed related to limited availability in North America. Guitar Center may have already sold their shipment of VPC1 units for the month, so removed the product listing to prevent further back-orders.

Without revealing anything secret or even official, has the VPC1 been selling well? I would feel happier if I knew it was a successful product and not likely to be discontinued and become one of those boards that costs way more on the used market than it ever did new.

I believe it's safe to say that VPC1 sales have exceeded expectations.

And not just in the US and Europe either. The product is selling in Japan and other parts of Asia, and we have even shipped a few units to regions that had previously never sold the MP or even ES models.

Congratulations to Kawai, and to you as well, for such a successful product!

Of all the digital boards I've played the VPC1 has been and continues to be the most satisfying in more than one way: Excellent action, just the right functionality (simple operation, selectable curves the one essential feature), great design, and I must add (in Europe) very reasonable price.

To me, emotional attachment has been great, and surprisingly remains great even after months of playing. It is only rivaled by the little red one sitting on top of it .

PS. Please give your colleagues a hint that we are still waiting for a MacOS update of the software...

PS. Please give your colleagues a hint that we are still waiting for a MacOS update of the software...

I don't mind the thought of using my old laptop to set up the velocity curve. Would be nice to do it on my Mac though. I do wonder if the curve will be the same on all Ivory II pianos? Uprights as well as Grands?

Financially, it appears to be working out for a VPC in my near future. Very near. I'm just using restraint for everything to actually happen as expected.

I do wonder if the curve will be the same on all Ivory II pianos? Uprights as well as Grands?

This topic is raised on the Q&A pages of the Kawaivpc.com website:

Quote:

Q: The VPC1 features an 'Ivory II' approved touch curve, however Ivory II includes a family of different pianos (Steinway, Yamaha, Fazioli, Bosendorfer, etc.). Which of these pianos is best suited to the VPC1's touch curve?

A: The VPC1's 'Ivory' approved touch curve has been developed to provide the most realistic playing experience for all of the pianos included in the 'Ivory II' package. As explained by Joe Ierardi, co-founder of Synthogy:

"I checked the VPC1 with the American Concert D and all of our products before signing off on the touch curve, and they all work quite well with the VPC1 Ivory II Touch Curve. The VPC1 touch curve is a great fit for all of our pianos because all of our pianos were developed from the same response model, using the same methodology, with the goal of having all pianos respond uniformly the same from a single given controller.

We developed *our* internal touch curves to respond similarly to Ivory II Grand Pianos, which was our first product and the standard by which we gauge the playability of all of our pianos. We're very methodical in the way we do things, and our goal has always been to produce the same playability in every instrument, so that once a person has chosen a controller that they like, it will play the same on all the pianos."

After some disappointment with my first VPC 1, which arrived damaged, functionally (roughly half of the keys did not respond), and cosmetically (there was damage due to a shock on the housing below the keys), I received the replacement today.

Despite some annoying glitches in the replacement process, I have to thank Thomann and UPS for their prompt response and help in returning the damaged unit. Once the unit was back, replacement was quick.

The new box was again a little torn and worn, and I was already nervous what I would find inside, but after unpacking everything appears to be fine and fully functional.

I had voiced some critics about the finish of the black keys (transition between plastic keytop and wooden keystick). I would like to say here that I was pleasantly surprised, that the finish on this unit is really better. I immediately noticed this. This confirms what several people had said about their units in subsequent comments.

Its too early to say anything more now. But I anyway had decided I want to like it, so I hope to enjoy it as much as many others around here...