I read Bill Buck's 'announcement' and I got a feeling of unease, like when you
eat week old salami. Obviously Buck must be feeling upset that the company he
bankrolled hired
killers as guards and incompetent clowns in the hope of 'amiga' cred. Unfortunatly
this does not excuse his arrogance and his plain deluded statements. . Let's take
a look-rant shall we.

About ANN
>The trolls have persisted and frankly it makes everyone (both sides) look
bad. Just look at >the >trash that is here now -- blue, red, blue, red,
etc. Crazy! There is no accountability >and there is >often a gross lack
of responsibility.

Buck forgets the fact that he is as responsible for creating this environment
as anyone, from posting business associates personal emails to abusing people
to insane rants. I find it pretty disrespectfully that he can insult Christian's
site like this when obviously he has got a lot of publicity and developers from
it.

About MOS and the community
>We have a real product now. After trying to work with the "Amiga Community".
>The people that are interested in MorphOS are involved

How easily he dismisses the Amiga kkkommunity when it has served it's purpose,
but he makes a fundamental mistake, he thinks that all his tireless work on
ann playing peg pong has convinced all the ones that can be saved. After all
marketing works all the time right? Buck conveniently forgets the hundreds of
users still waiting for a morphos for their classic amigas, or the thousands
of former amigas who want to run morphos on their macs or maybe their existing
ppc set top boxes. Obviously the pegasos 2 has not set the world on fire, (hey
it didn't even rate a mention on slashdot) and buck is sweating. Why don't amigans
wanna buy his ppc machine. ? It must be all the ann trolls fault.. ! Apart from
the Amigaworld lunatics most people are content to wait and see instead of rushing
out and buying an underpowered ppc motherboard.

About those 'developers'
>We have over 450 registered developers on the MorphOS Developer Connection.

YES Amiga inc had 3000... Where is the software buck? Where is the Java for
mos by alan havenmose? Where is news about rebol? Where is Motionstudio, according
to my local reseller site in Australia it is still being developed and one of
the reasons I should buy a peg. it seems that genesi are getting as bad a record
as amiga inc for hyperbole.

About the value of people

>We just do not have the time to lose on people that yield limited returns
and require too much >attention.
Good to see buck regards people in terms of financial returns. If you get involved
in cults then don't complain about the insane. ;)

Conclusion

This shouldn't be taken the wrong way, apart from aros, morphos seems the best
solution and if bplan/genesi are still around in a year or mos is released for
mac then i will consider buying it, but buck really needs to shut up. The problem
with managers in the amiga market clown is that they don't stay humble but go
on delusional ego trips.
Computer revolution today, millions of units about to be shipped.
bankrupcy and fraud tommorow.

First off, I've not been motivated to go and look up CheesGrate's past comments. So I have no flaming idea if he is in favour of one or other solutions.

Onto the point that was emotionally pushed about BBRV hiring killers. I doubt very much that BBRV had connections with the lower order hiring and firing, and you better think carefully before you start misguided rubbish like that. I have my own doubts about Pretory, and its issues, but they are a million miles from the issues surrounding Peg and the kkkkkkkkkkkkkommunity.

If I were going to run a security company, I myself would consider the harder cases in our society for the job. But thats just my point of view on that particular line of critique.

As to using and abusing the amiga community, I don't give a monkey's about that, and nor should and smart company management. You've been presented with a nice system, at not to horrific a price, with a new OS and the guy has paid for it. If you can't take whats on offer, then fine, but don't bitch about betrayal. Thats fecking garbage.

I think that you been offered a fair response on the promises. It might not be everything you always wanted, but for a small company to make it this far, I think some credit is due. You're bemoaning the kommunity line is just pathetic. Grow up. What part of your life is afflicted by community here? Do you contribute the same, less or more than BBRV and his team? In fact, what do you bring to the table at all?

As to BBRV, or Raquel, and Pretory, that is a different issue, and its not going to be resolved here. The matter lies with other authorities, and investigators and they will decide the merit or none merit of any punishment - if any. Why don't you let the issue lie, at least until the parties involved complete whatever it is they are doing. I might add that until they do, you really don't know the facts and should not bring emotive nonsense and smearing here, as there is already too much of that in these parts.

Finnish parlament is filled with criminals. And the one who are not criminals are incompetent celebrities. Same seems to be also in other countries. My sympathy to Pretory, good staff is hard to find these days.

Obviously Bill Buck get nervous with his debts to ex-employees going up daily and many soon start lawsuit. Also I heard of already run lawsuits against him and he now searched per Europol list for stealing from the French government.

I told you Genesi was just a hardware company and not the 'savior' of the Amiga that you smurfs thought it would be.

Now Bill Buck is turning away from the Amiga after USING you to help start up his company. Do you really think he is going to sink his money into devloping something as unprofitable as a FREE MorphOS for every Peg owner anylonger? No. Of course not. All he wants to do is sell his Motherboards and he certainly won't waste anytime in this market, just like no other Motherboard manufacturer would.

The ride is over. Come back to the Real Amiga and get yourself a Professional Machine like my A2500!

In reply to Comment 3 (AdmV):> First off, I've not been motivated to go and look up CheesGrate's past
> comments. So I have no flaming idea if he is in favour of one or other
> solutions.

Actually he used to proudly be the biggest blue troll if I remember correctly:-)

But seriously whether BB intended to sound this way or not, he did sound like he was essentially saying F-U ANN & AO! BB has never been known to sugar coat his feelings so the reactions to it should not be surprising. I'm kind of surprised at the backlash to a pretty mild 'rant' by cheesgrate. Camp Blue shold be careful not to seem as militants they accuse the red side of being:)

Me personally I don't care for the politics and arguing too much anymore. I'll keep enjoying my Peggy, and may give OS4 a spin one day.

In reply to Comment 11 (DoomMaster):> I told you Genesi was just a hardware company and not the 'savior' of the Amiga

Of course, there is NO and there WILL be NO savior of the Amiga. The Amiga is dead, forever and at the best there would be SMALL companies doing SMALL steps, but as there will NEVER be an enough big Amiga market to make a viable business with it, there will NEVER have durable companies growing and living of the Amiga.

People believing that it's possible that there will be a savior, are SIMPLY dreaming.

"But the tribunal which ordered the company’s liquidation heard that, in a rush to recruit guards, it had taken on disco bouncers, dog handlers, nightwatchmen, and other staff with little or no experience of arms or safety procedures."

Umm... these are the people that generally have the MOST expierence with arms and safety proceedures.

Personally, i think this is nothing more than an ego trip. BBRV *wants* to be the center of attention, and by making such a statement he got yet again, attention.

Personally, i'm glad i won't have to read any more of his peg pong posts and other (alcohol induced?)^idiotic posts. The witch is dead, long live the witch.

One might also think that this would be a manouvre in the hopes of getting more people going onto those 2 MOS sites (don't remember wich ones, i don't read/post/care about those), and generating more traffic there, but this could easilly backfire, if the "red trolls" follow him there.

I say, let'm sit in his island, good riddence, and if he posts something intelligent, it'll end up on ann.lu & a.org.

Life goes on folks, get over it.

Cheers

PS: As most of you know, i'm not to fond of BBRV, and my posts are about BBRV only, not about the pegasos, MOS, or the people behind it (except BBRV).

In reply to Comment 6 (well informed):Posted by well informed (66.98.170.90) on 05-Jan-2004 18:28:56
Obviously Bill Buck get nervous with his debts to ex-employees going up daily and many soon start lawsuit. Also I heard of already run lawsuits against him and he now searched per Europol list for stealing from the French government.

In reply to Comment 30 (brotheris):I care about ann.lu & the amiga community, i'm indifferent about MOS & pegasos.
I see the post BBRV made as nothing more then him stirring up shit in the community (yet again).

I thought that Buck's announcement about certain things was a bit too clinical, which maybe made it sound heartless. It would have been nice to have thanked ANN, for Genesi has undoubtedly gained more than they've lost from sites such as this and amiga.org.

>Buck forgets the fact that he is as responsible for creating this environment
>as anyone, from posting business associates personal emails to abusing people
>to insane rants. I find it pretty disrespectfully that he can insult
>Christian's site like this when obviously he has got a lot of publicity and
>developers from it.

I don't think he created this environment - it was around long before Genesi showed up on the scene. Remember - before Bill Buck, it was Ralph Schmidt that was the target of this pro-name sentiment. The target has just changed but the animosity was always there. I've only seen him name and shame people on a few times, but by all accounts it was generally True Amigans that had been hounding him. Not that that makes it okay, but I know I'd soon get pissed off if I was being stalked by a group of obsessive fanatics with no powers of reasoning (in fact, of those goldfish specimens does seem to be stalking me).

>Good to see buck regards people in terms of financial returns. If you get
>involved in cults then don't complain about the insane. ;)

I think he was talking about his ex-employees. But as far as users go - it always amazed me that he'd spend so much time pandering to obvious True Amigans who wouldn't ever lose their hatred. He just made these lunatics seem important by giving them a voice.

I was hoping that Genesi would be aiming to keep MOS as part of the wider Amiga community, however perhaps he sees MOS going its own way. I don't think him not contributing to ANN and amiga.org any more makes much difference; MOS users are mostly ex-(Commodore) Amiga users so there will always be a link and MOS users will still use neutral sites, and we'll still see MOS news on them.

Even new users MOS from outside the Amiga community will find their way to ANN and amiga.org. I suspect that these two moderate & neutral sites will remain the centre of the wider Amiga community (with MOS included in that).

In reply to Comment 7 (Gregg):Turning this thread into a personal attack is only gonna make you look like an idiot and a trol, Gregg. If you have an opinion different than his state it, otherwise shut up.

In reply to Comment 32 (smithy):The root of the split can be found in the WarpUP vs PowerUP days, had Haage & Partner & Laire come to an agreement in the early days, this whole mess would probably never have come to be.

In reply to Comment 36 (Amon_Re):@Amon_re
>The root of the split can be found in the WarpUP vs PowerUP days, had Haage &
>Partner & Laire come to an agreement in the early days, this whole mess would
>probably never have come to be.

I think MOS would have been created irrespective of whether H&P and phase 5 had co-operated on software. And I think MOS's existance (or any other "rival" to anything named Amiga) would also stir up the same amount of animosity.

The remains of the vultured picked amiga community is very very small in comparison to where all the PPC hardware might be marketed to.

I see no problem in a company addressing a larger market and in doing so find they have less time for this fractured and disfunctional remains of a once thriving community.

I think that in the event the hardware sales increases to a point of respectful business figures that are self supportive and a bit more, then many here might then look back on when Bill spent time here in boast.

So much seems to be as a matter of convienence, regarding what people say.

If Genesi taks a blow from the former business assiociation that handicaps its, then be releaved that there is still AROS. Which can be an assit to helping move people from the x86 to the PPC of Genesi.... allowing a more careful one step at a time crossing.

Its the hardware that is important, not the salesperson. Its the hardware that will either prove to be good enough to near sell itself, or require alot of hard work from a salesperson. But so far IBM at least recognizes it...

I support AROS but I don't discount PPC hardware. I think its over for Amiga, only thing left is the actual planting of the headstone (court ordered bankruptcy)..

AROS is not going to die and if it can run on PPC hardware and if there is good hardware to run it on.... That is good..

In reply to Comment 41 (DoomMaster):I happen to know *a lot* more than you about the MorphOS development...
You cannot tell me what is being and what is not being developed...
I know what is going on... MorphOS has ***NOT*** been abandoned...

In reply to Comment 43 (DoomMaster):No i do not care about two overpriced piece of shit boards and shitty antiqudated operating systems which are not worth spitting on, if Genesi ditches MorphOS then good i really hope he does and Hyperion should ditch OS4 and the Amiga market.

All these POS failing solutions should all just die off, for a platform i used to love i wish it would just die off peacefully.

In reply to Comment 43 (DoomMaster):>Do you not care that Genesi has now dropped support for MorphOS? No more new
>versions of MorphOS to be included with Peg boards anymore! Doesn't that
>bother you?

>They used all you blue clowns!

What are you on about?

How did they "use" anyone? They have offered an upgrade path from the (Commodore) Amiga. A new OS and especially designed hardware. So Amiga users could either continue as they are with nothing, or upgrade. How is that using anyone?

In reply to Comment 44 (DoomMaster):That will happen the day MorphOS goes commercial. You WILL have to pay for it
at some point in the future, when it has reached a really mature stage.
It won't stay in the "comes free with the Pegasos" form forever.

Genesi needed money to devolope a PPC machine. Who could they get to waste money to fund the developement? They choose Amiga users, promising the future for Amiga users. Not that they have their board developed and refined they are dropping us for bigger markets.

Their whole plan was to go for bigger markets and just dump us Amiga users after we paid for the developement.