86 Comments:

If today's theme of localism is going to mean anything in the new polics, an EU referendum is needed to "re-localise" a whole range of powers handed to the unelected Brussels regime. Chances are slim. Cameron's no sceptic.

However, one promise seems to be in the process of being delivered - ID cards are apparently off the table. I hope this isn't a rare crumb being thrown to the electorate to keep us happy.

The Condemists are still going to spend hundreds of billions of OUR money on tackling a climate problem that doesn't exist though. I don't see them piling up any kind of fuel to set fire to the quangoes which cost us in the region of 90 billion a year I believe. So, about those ways and means of bringing the defecit under crontol. Where the f*** are they?

If they are approaching a black hole then maybe they'll become "spaghettified" as they approach the event horizon of their own stupidity and venality. Shortly after that can we expect to see the singularity of their arrogance tear them apart at the quantum level? Will we see the birth of new quasi-particles - Cleggons and Camerons? Maybe a few sub particles such as Toryons and Demons?

Sarkozy is right because every European political leader feels small when set against the US President and has grandiose dreams.

The only feasible model for a United Europe was the one Hitler implemented whereby one "Volk" superseded the nation-state as an Ethnic Group and looted the surrounding states.

The EU Construction means the weaker states now loot the stronger ones in a sort of parasitic relationship. It is first necessary to dull the senses of the stronger because no nation is strong enough to dominate in modern Europe without making the stronger partner pliable and supine.

Sarkozy is right. It is Britain and its obsession with supra-national bodies - it created most of them in the world - and its desperate need to belong to the one the French created

DC & NC are not eurosceptic by any standard.The only test of any real and genuine "scepticism" would be to remove the UK instantly from the EU - without any further 'ifs or buts'.That is the ONLY test.

To illustrate, if you are locked in a room inside a house which is on fire, you don't spend time discussing the furniture. You get OUT pronto by whatever means you can. Dave is for staying in and hoping the fire won't get beyond the front hall.

I have a copy of the Order of Service held at Westminster Abbey to mark the 60th anniversary of the Schuman Declaration held on Sunday 9 May 2010.

The European Union’s flag was indeed presented to the Dean at the Lantern Altar. It was borne by young representatives from a number of EU countries: no representative from this country.

What they (the EU) mean by ‘opposition seculaire’ is the historical enmity between France and Germany.

The Service used Psalm 67 which has such words as ‘nations’ and ‘peoples’. But the EU project is about erasing nations such as Great Britain and Northern Ireland; France; Germany, Italy, Ireland etc., because it seeks to establish a European people (a demos): that is its democratic deficit. There is no such entity as a European people.

The Choir sang a Bulgarian folksong which sounds odd in the context of a religious service:

A kaval flute is playing up and down through the village.If it is a boy from our village playing,I will love him only until lunchtime.If it is a stranger,I will love him forever.

The Congregation then sang in French, English and German the hymn ‘Thine be the glory’! Apparently not only is there no European demos: there is no European language!

And yes: they completed the Service by standing for the anthem of the EU, Beethoven’s ‘Ode to Joy’.

His Grace was going to dissect the Order of Service today, but when he faced it, he could not be bothered. The theological implications of some aspects of this Euro-liturgy are not only idolatrous but blasphemous.

He would very much like to know why the Union Flag was not presented at the altar of Westminster Abbey on the 300th anniversary of the creation of the United Kingdom.

He would like to know why the document refers to a subject of Her Majesty as a 'British citizen'.

He would like to know what the Book of Revelation has to do with European Union (don't go there).

He would like to know what one is supposed to infer from the juxtaposition of the 'New Jerusalem' with the EU.

Sarkozy should brush up on his recent history. Thatcher was far more eurosceptic at the end of her term than when she won office (e.g. Bruges speech). Blair started out fanatically pro-EU, then failed to sign Britain up for the single currency and ended up "shedding blood" in support of the special relationship. Hardly a Damascene conversion to the European ideal.

The jurisprudential values of EU legislation are extinguishing Judaeo-Christian values.

The EU is aware that a religious vacuum must not be permitted to exist: there must be a unifying value system that binds the peoples of Europe together in the Imperial EU; the Caesars drew the same conclusion.

The French sociologist, Emile Durkheim (1858-1917):

The concluding chapter of Durkheim's The Elementary Forms of Religious Life reveals an underlying metaphysics comparable to that of supernatural religion, with Society replacing God.

True, Gnostic - and there's not much sense behind those smarmy faces; or, I'm sure, among the well-paid hench-youth they'll foist on us. It is a nauseating business.

Your long-standing idea of storming the place (and mine of taking back education) are beginning to look like the only serious options. Co-incidentally, the other day I asked a young man why he wore "Remember, Remember, the 5th of November" on his T-shirt, in May. He was American and commemorating the date of Obama's inauguration. [Sigh].

I think you might have touched on something with Durkhiem regarding this 'rule'. Durkheim refined the sociological positivism originally set forth by Auguste Comte.

From wikipedia:-

"Comte offers an account of social evolution (not dissimilar, in its reasoning, to those great systems offered by Marx and Freud) proposing that society undergoes three phases in its quest for the truth according to a general 'law of three stages'. These are (1) the theological, (2) the metaphysical, and (3) the positive.[8] The theological phase of man was based on whole-hearted belief in all things with reference to God. God, Comte says, had reigned supreme over human existence pre-Enlightenment. Humanity's place in society was governed by its association with the divine presences and with the church. The theological phase deals with humankind's accepting the doctrines of the church (or place of worship) rather than relying on its rational powers to explore basic questions about existence. It dealt with the restrictions put in place by the religious organization at the time and the total acceptance of any “fact” adduced for society to believe.[9] Comte describes the metaphysical phase of humanity as the time since the Enlightenment, a time steeped in logical rationalism, to the time right after the French Revolution. This second phase states that the universal rights of humanity are most important. The central idea is that humanity is invested with certain rights that must be respected. In this phase, democracies and dictators rose and fell in attempts to maintain the innate rights of humanity.[10]

The final stage of the trilogy of Comte’s universal law is the scientific, or positive, stage. The central idea of this phase is that individual rights are more important than the rule of any one person. Comte stated that the idea of humanity's ability to govern itself makes this stage innately different from the rest. There is no higher power governing the masses and the intrigue of any one person can achieve anything based on that individual's free will and authority. The third principle is most important in the positive stage.[11] Comte calls these three phases the universal >>rule<<< in relation to society and its development. Neither the second nor the third phase can be reached without the completion and understanding of the preceding stage. All stages must be completed in progress.

It's a bit like riding a bicycle. Distinguishing 'knowing that' from 'knowing how', ie, Michael Polanyi articulates a case for the epistemological relevance of both forms of knowledge; using the example of the act of balance involved in riding a bicycle, he suggests that the theoretical knowledge of the physics involved in maintaining a state of balance cannot substitute for the practical knowledge of how to ride, and that it is important to understand how both are established and grounded.

The EU really is interested in ‘taking over’ churches. Here is the January newsletter of an organisation (I believe funded by the EU):

‘A Soul for Europe

‘Dear friends and colleagues,

‘After the Lisbon Treaty entered into force on the 1st December 2009, we Europeans find ourselves in the midst of a new situation: new institutional rule, extended powers of the European Parliament and Citizens’ rights in the Union.

‘In accordance with our mission statement, ‘A Soul for Europe’ will continue to strengthen the cultural component of Europe – one of its most important features of identity! - in the European integration process.

‘In this regard, the focus of our activities in 2010 will increasingly be on ‘citizenship’ and active participation by civil society in the construction of Europe beyond the classical meaning of ‘representation’.

‘We hope you will join us on this journey and look forward to cooperating with those interested in the quest to find out what ‘citizenship’ really is.

Your Grace, your core competency (to use modern parlance) is the Break from Rome. As it was in 1536, so it must be again in 2010. You must henceforth devote your energies to freeing the country from the shackles of the Treaty of Rome, as amended.

You will not be alone in your struggle. Note that the Spanish PM describes his country with deliberate irony as an EU 'protectorate'. The humble electors of North-Rhine Westphalia have made their displeasure with Frau Merkin and the Greek bail-out known by destroying her coalition. Your communicant understands that German public opinion has just swung through 180 degrees with regard to the EU. After years of bailing out the Ossies following Helmut Kohl's over-generous re-union terms with the DDR, the German people are incensed to find that as the only truly frugal Europeans they now have to bail-out Club Med.

Perhaps Your Grace should consider a suitably Lutheran gesture of revolt within the EU. Clad in full vestments and archepiscopal regalia, one can imagine you nailing a modern version of the 95 Theses to the door of the EU Commission building in Brussels. On second thoughts, sellotape might be safer, the door is probably made of glass.

no nonny, education needs taking back. Back to the sixties. Back to the time that took kids from deprived and working class backgrounds and gave them one of the finest educations in the world, equal to private education. A time when innate intelligence and merit bore ripe fruit and those not so academically blessed, but with a solid grounding in the basics, could train to be vital tradesmen (ever met a poor plumber?) or at least equipped with the knowledge to earn a living and think for themselves.

A one size fits all education (with no losers and too many questionable winners) benefits no one. It gets you dumbed down subjects and plummeting standards.

But then, I'm preaching to the converted. I suspect we are both of an age to have experienced these things. :0)

The stage seems to be set for the emergence of a global political system (the EU), a global economic system (the Euro), and a global religious system (the ecumenical movement). The EU would seem to fulfil many of the prophesies of the fourth kingdom that is to come, from which will arise the Antichrist of the end-times.

This seems inevitable.

All true followers of Yeshua can do is proclaim the truth about Yeshua and His path to salvation , and denounce the satanic counterfeit religions that have their roots in Babylon.

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Mr Singh,Peter and John were ‘uneducated, common men’ — yet they were bold (Acts 4:13). They were brought before the great council of Israel, a distinguished body that included Annas the high priest and Caiaphas. The two young disciples of Jesus were going to have to answer for the incredible healing of a man who had been lame from birth.

The miracle had occurred at the Temple and many witnessed the event, which eventually attracted the religious authorities. Peter had the boldness to preach Christ before these most respected leaders, proclaim that ‘there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved’ (Acts 4:12).

And Peter was talking about a man whose death by crucifixion these very leaders had, only a short time before, arranged!

Slightly off the original subject, but an interesting scenario may be developing. Consider:DC's 'marriage' vows may last, for the sake of argument, a full five years (though doubtful), but the alliance itself may prove to be an insuperable problem between now and then for him. When the next election comes then it will not be an "alliance" calling for votes, but a strange group called the "conservative" party will jog fading memories.By that time, who will know what a Conservative party looks like? If the poison from the Clegg factor worms its way even more deeply into what is left of true Toryism in the party then what will be left after two - three - five years? Electors memories are notoriously short. The "brand", for what its worth, will have gone.Conservatives? Oh, yes, I think I remember them - was that the lot which promised a referendum? ? ...........

Take for example a beach stone lying in the sand. For all the light which illuminates it at the speed of light, the rock has to exist from moment to moment at what speed? It's absolute existence is solid yet flux. How fast does it move through time from one moment to the next? Its solidity is seemingly instantaneous to the eye, but this is only the reflection of light which has its own speed.

God is the architect of everything, and our five senses are the gift of perception at a level which allows us to appreciate and interact on a mortal level only.

How fast did Jesus ascend into heaven? Light is both particle and wave and travels at a measurable velocity, what of soul?

Jesus entered our space and time. When exactly, and at what point in reality? We measure moments by the Sun and the Moon, but God is instantaneous.

Sorry about all these comments Your Grace, but D.Singh seems to get away with it, and I am locked into a world of mundacity this week.

The only (what?), the only good thing that will come out of this squalid coalition is that the liberal puke fest known as the LibDem party will now have to remove its yellow tinted glasses and look the world square in the eye.

All its fantasy world policies will melt in the heat of the moment as it now has to deal with reality. Maybe God has this in mind for us, the removal of a very large stumbling block. They are now locked into a world of coalition with some of the country's biggest bastards, surely some of the bastardness will rub off and we will all be the better off for it.

Heaven forbid that the bastards get liberalised - holy mother, thank God we do not live for ever.

Mr Graham Wood @ 20.38, I fear you are right on the money. As His Grace has said its a generational change. Note that almost the entire cabinet is made up of Generation 'Xers" in their thirties or forties. There are two superannuants of greater age who are beyond being a threat to the ambitions of the young, Ken Clarke (70 yo) and Vince Cable (67 yo). Dave's move is a bit like Benedict's move on the CofE, he needs a transfusion of new blood to transform and modernise the institution. The baby boomer cohort of Conservative MPs with traditional views has been largely side-lined. Mission accomplished.

Wonderful posts today! I am thankful for Your Grace and all Communicants. Does it help to remember this nugget from the vision of Chaucer's Arcite in the Palace of Mars? ...

And al above, depeynted in a tourSaugh I Conquest, sittynge in greet honour,With the sharp swerd over his heed,Hangynge by a soutil twines threed. ( The Knight's Tale 2016-20)

As Chaucer also attested throughout his work, the 'Prime Mover' set all this up; and of course all out corruptibility relates to 'The Fall': to the limitation of our senses and vision that Mr. Gaites mentions.

Truly, Len : "The EU would seem to fulfil many of the prophesies of the fourth kingdom that is to come, from which will arise the Antichrist of the end-times." - and now we needs must see those Marxists who reveal one truth: they are at least the branches of AntiChrist. I think Mr. Singh's post on their 2010 thing manifests their confidence in, and reliance on, their power to corrupt through 'nurture' (hah) rather than nature. Oh yes, it is deliberate; and did not Marx and Freud admit that they had developed their theories after their readings in literature, etc?

...cont'd [I hope you'll all forgive so many posts, but also that we might enjoy the following, while His Grace re-groups]

Yes Gnostic, you're right on all counts. I thank God for the grace of my conversion, experience, and age :). So I love to think, with David and our own warrior King, Alfred (the first to translate the Psalms into English, and who later required Guthrum and his Danes to convert):"Yea, though I walk through Death's dark vale, yet will I fear no ill" [...] "My table [He hath] furnished, in presence of my foes,"**

I would wish a new generation to know such beauty, and also this:

Lead, kindly Light, amid th'encircling gloom, lead Thou me on!The night is dark, and I am far from home; lead Thou me on!Keep Thou my feet; I do not ask to seeThe distant scene; one step enough for me.

I was not e'er thus, nor prayed that Thou shouldst lead me on;I loved to choose and see my path; but now lead Thou me on!I loved the garish day, and, spite of fears,Pride ruled my will. Remember not past years!

So long Thy power hath blest me, sure it still will lead me on.O'er moor and fen, o'er crag and torrent, till the night is gone,And with the morn those angel faces smile, which IHave loved long since, and lost awhile!***

I doubt your grace will have missed asscension day .One of the things I love about our CofE is that a calendar of events and story telling is its structure , although notibly being washed away by more of feeling that living in the freeze frame of the pentecost is safer .I took a friend to a high Anglican service where psalms are still sung , the King James is still read and those strange embellishments of mass adhered to.He didnt much like it , he thought it too formal and needed some pop music . I tried to explain that it was a more challenging to what concepts of living a godly life were about .

I am lucky a bell is still manually rung to call to service , the creed is still recited and that invitation to seek god , despite its many frustarations and joys , is still written into words that call upon indivdual commital and enduring its responsibilities .

I do hope that that the traditional service is not lost , there are some great ministers who value it , despite it seeming to speak unto a ancient congregation .The embellishments are difficult for some to understand , but i have found they have meant more to me as time goes on and are perhaps about reflecting on my tone as I try and kneel before the altar .

It is not a case of letting the new hold sway by trivialising what our parents did .

I am sure that some top CofE people read your blogg and i am not wanting to create a museum , but it would be good in these days of struggling congregations if , congrgations from outlying churches could come to a main church or cathedral for a proper high church service , it could only be once every two months , a good sermon on scripture , but a cahnce once more to discover our long worked at anglican faith and tending of its foundations built in more socially important times .

Perhaps then we will have more godly people less attached to the 24/7 calendar of madernity (appropiate typo) much better equiped to listen to god and interpret the times ,with robust values that we once more try and live in a godly nation .

Mr Voyager @ 0930 said 'The only feasible model for a United Europe was the one Hitler implemented whereby one "Volk" superseded the nation-state as an Ethnic Group and looted the surrounding states.'

In the context of which you may be shocked and appalled to read an article by the Italian journalist Francisco Sisci who writes for La Stampa. Sisci posits that the solution to Europe is to recreate the German Empire, implicitly as replacement for the failure of the federalist dreams of the EU. Communicants with knowledge and experience of federal constitutional structures will understand that they can be easily expanded, or if need be, contracted. For example, the USA created new states in Hawaii and Alaska. During the formation of the Commonwealth of Australia in the early 20th century, the Dominion of New Zealand attended as a dialogue partner but elected not to become two Australasian states. More recently the Federal Republic of Germany tacked on the Lander of the former DDR. So why stop there?

The kingdom of Bohemia, aka the Czech Republic, is a natural fit, as is Austria. And if Austria joins one can scarcely leave out Hungary. Poland is another matter, as the old German saying goes, 'Asia begins at the Polish border'. Particularly true following the loss of Pomerania and Silesia, to say nothing of Konigsberg. Work in progress?

But enough of Ostpolitik, to the west lies the fractured state of Belgium. Perhaps the Duchy of Flanders could be induced to provide access to the southern North Sea via the port of Antwerp.

In short, it is not impossible for a skilled statesperson to peacefully assemble a vastly expanded Federal Republic during these economically challenging times.

This is why the European Union cannot be democratic. ‘Demos’ means ‘a people’. Bernard Connolly, citing the German judge Paul Kirchof (in his essay ‘The Circle of Barbed Wire’) explains:

‘The question of Franco-German relations within "Europe" immediately points to a second extremely important difference: there is no European demos in the way that there identifiably was a German demos in Bismarck's time. The absence of a demos was cited by the German Constitutional Court when it reluctantly accepted in 1993, under extreme political pressure from Kohl, the constitutionality of the Maastricht treaty, and expressed its skepticism about the possibility of a democratization of the European Union. The judge generally reputed to have drafted the relevant sections of the Court's judgment, Paul Kirchhof, wrote in his standard text on German constitutional and administrative law,

‘"The development of a cultural unity in Europe is out of the question, since nine [at the time Kirchhof was writing the handbook] national languages are spoken within the Community. ... The linguistic image of the assenting Staatsvolk having a "constitution-giving-authority" cannot adequately encompass the emergence of a European state. It does not explain why the formation of a new state in its different constitution should bind the citizens who are not part of the electorate now but will subsequently have the right to vote. It does not justify why the emerging state - the Community of the Twelve [as it then was], let us say, should be allowed to exclude other states [Turkey no doubt being the example most relevant to this reasoning] and thereby bring about deep changes in their European beginnings. Above all, however, it is not able to support its own premise, namely the common ground of a European Staatsvolk which belongs together: a minimum of homogeneity in basic constitutional attitudes, a legal language accessible to all, economic and cultural similarities or at least some forces of approximation, the possibility of political exchange through media, which reach the whole of Europe, a leadership which is known in Europe and parties active across Europe. ... A Europeanization without a prior European consciousness and therefore without a European people with a concrete capability and readiness for common statehood would be, in terms of the history of thought, un-European."’

Are you stunned, Cranny, as I am, by the shameless power grab and the outrageous constitutional swindle that is being perpertrated before our eyes?

Blair was like an infant with a complicated toy, as he pulled bits out of our constitution without having the foggiest idea what he was doing, or what would accrue. The Scottish Parliament (as Billy Connolly calls it, the 'wee pretendy parliament'), the Welsh Assembly, the evisceration of the House of Lords, the abolition of the Lord Chancellor, the Supreme Court, etc.

But even Blair didn't have the breathtaking chutzpah to take away the House of Commons's ability to dissolve itself on a simple majority motion of no confidence. 55 percent! Five-year fixed term! What will these things do to the parliamentary system we thought we knew?

Where now the need to get 326 seats for a majority? For a majority is no longer to be a majority of one.

The Cleggerons have found something else -- some lever or knob -- sticking out of their new toy, and couldn't wait to see what happened if they broke it off or pulled it out.

The expenses scandal will be as nothing compared to the potential for corruption and tyranny that this is likely to bring about. We will have suddenly become powerless to dismiss our government, and the House of Commons will have lost its ability to call the executive to account. So what further use is it?

It makes me despair of the inegrity of any politician, and I am seriously thinking of withdrawing from any furhter thinking about these matters and joining Peter Hitchens as he goes off to keep bees.

"I've seen horrors … horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that … but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face … and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us, and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember … I … I … I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized … like I was shot … like I was shot with a diamond … a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God … the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men … trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love … but they had the strength … the strength … to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, then our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral … and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling … without passion … without judgment … without judgment. Because it's judgment that defeats us."

Your Grace, D Singh @ 13.02 suggests that we are witnessing the Belganisation of British parliamentary politics; hard to disagree. Put another way, British politics is becoming geographical defined. Les Cons won a single seat north of the Tweed, and the SNP have yet to field a candidate in the Home Counties. Only Labour and the Lib-Dems have a national appeal, something Dave may have noticed in striking his Faustian bargain with Cleggstra.

What we are seeing all over Europe is a political class that believes it exists for its own interests. This process is propelled by the elites of the European Union and facilitated by the Federal Constitution (the Lisbon Treaty).

I am convinced that what we are seeing is the prophecy in the Book of Daniel unfolding. After the imperial power of Rome (indicated by the metal iron in the statute that featured in the vison) expires (as the prophecy seems to indicate; in the ‘Last Days’) an imperial power resembling it seems to arise:

"Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay.

"And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile.

"As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.”

It may be that the iron represents the EU’s political elite: whilst we the people are the men of clay.

Mr Singh, I seriously wonder where you get your eschatological speculations from.

The fourth part of the statue predicted in Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream corresponds most closely to the Roman Empire.

The context was all about the oppression of God's people, Israel, and their eventual deliverance by the 'stone cut out without hands' which was to grow until it became a mountain filling the whole earth. That little stone is the kingdom of Christ, which, by contrast with the Gentile world empires it replaced, was established without violence and from a tiny, apparently unpromising origin.

Tempting and fashionable as it may be, it is inappropriate to decontextualise and dehistoricise prophetic passages, and to press them into use for our own particular situations. It is amazing how definitely the books of Daniel and Revelation were held to be describing the rise of Mohammed, of Napoleon, of Kaiser Wilhelm and of the USSR.

I agree there is a fourth kingdom: imperial Rome. But that, in my view in the ‘End Times, emerges (the iron ’slips’ into the feet of iron and clay) as the EU (see verse 41 below).

36"This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation. 37You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold.

39 Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you,

and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.

40And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these.

41And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.

I think somebody once said on this blog that when Jesus returns the world will be like as when He left it.

Yes, Mr Singh, I am well aware of the composition of the fourth kingdom -- iron, leading to an admixture of iron and clay. However, this simply means that the fourth kingdom was to become unstable and fragile (as, indeed, the Roman Empire proved to be).

It is entirely arbitrary to ascribe this to the EU, much as we may share our loathing of that institution. We cannot simply rip passages of scripture from their original place and purpose in this way.

The purpose of the prophecy was to reassure Israel of the ultimate demise of its enemies, no matter how strong they might appear, and of God's eventual return to Zion. There is nothing about it that brings it into our modern age.

We have to use our intelligence and reason to understand the provenance and relevance of texts, and not impose on them sopmething which has no connection whatsoever with anything their writers envisaged.

As I mentioned in a previous post, this together with other apocalyptic visions has been taken over centuries to apply to a variety of manifestations that seemed to those at the time to be compelling fulfilments of the vision. I didn't mention mediaeval Catholicism, but could have done so. Nor the Stuart dynasty, whose overthrown explicitly in these terms was the agenda of the 'fifth monarchy men'.

The fact is, Mr Singh, that OT prophecy was all fulfilled in Christ, and he made that clear to his disciples after his resurrection, calling them fools and slow of heart for their failure to recognise it (Luke 24:25-27, 44-47).

What you call knowledge and wisdom appears to me to be more like imagination and wishful thinking. Sorry to appear harsh; I don't mean to be. But I have seen this sort of thing at close quarters for nearly 5 decades, and I find it very depressing.

I missed your third rejoinder. Yes; it has all been fulfilled in Christ. He is the stone cut out without hands. He is the mountain filling the whole earth. He is the Yea and Amen -- the telos of all prophecy.

Very Good posts Anabaptist - and theologically speaking I agree 100% with your perspective:" OT prophecy was all fulfilled in Christ, and he made that clear to his disciples after his resurrection, calling them fools and slow of heart for their failure to recognise it (Luke 24:25-27, 44-47)."

You would, no doubt greatly appreciate the same approach in a book by Adrio Konig, entitled'THE ECLIPSE of Christ in Eschatology".Yes, ALL the Older Testament points forward to him, as you say, particularly as Jesus explains in Luke 24. What about so called "end times"?

"If the Gospel is about him (Christ), so too is the Bible's message about the "end". If he is the one around whom the whole New Testament revolves, then he is the one too,around whom God's plans for the world revolve"The book of Daniel does not IMO have reference to any 20/21st century events/nations etc, but illustrates God's total sovereignty over all Gentile nations, (for all time), and especially those within Daniel's immediate historical context - mainly Babylon, Medo-Persian, but possibly Greece and Roman empires. But would not be dogmatic about extent of his prophecies - the principle of God's total sovereignty is more important to establish IMO

A Bible prophecy foretells that a confederation of ten nations or groups of nations, with historical links to the ancient Holy Roman Empire, will arise in Europe just before the return of Jesus Christ (Daniel 2:40-43). On December 1, 2009, fireworks, music, and official speeches welcomed the new European Constitution in Lisbon. Jo Leinen, a senior German Social Democrat Member of European Parliament, called December 1 a "day of joy" for those who wanted to build a federal United States of Europe. This confederation of nations will surrender their sovereignty to a strong political leader called "the beast," or Antichrist. (Revelation 17:12-13). He is described as "having fierce features, who understands sinister schemes... Through his cunning He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule..." (Daniel 8:23,25) [NKJV]

The Antichrist will come to power with the help of a global religious leader, the false prophet. The false prophet will deceive the world with miracles (Revelation 13:13). He will use interfaith activities in an effort to reassemble the fragmented "Christian" churches under his authority (Revelation 13: 11-12). The Parliament of the World's Religions 2009 met in Melbourne from December 3rd through December 10th, 2009. It was a gathering of approximately 5,000 religious leaders representing every major faith around the world, including Shintoism, Hinduism, Jainism, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Paganism, Sikhism, Buddhism and the Australian Aboriginal community to promote "peace, diversity and sustainability."

We are living at a time when the fulfillment of end-time prophecies is accelerating. Minute details of what we see happening to individuals, cities and nations prove to have been foretold thousands of years in advance. This gives us a solid reason to put our faith in the God of the Bible. Jesus said, "And now I have told you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe." (John 14:29)[NKJV] We are entering a dark time in human history, a time of great deception. While many live in fear of the "end of the world," we have "the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place..." (2 Peter 2:19) [NKJV] The study of Bible prophecy prepares us for what is coming and protects us from deception. Every world system is set up to prevent us from understanding what God is doing, immediately preceding the return of Christ, "but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. And those of the people who understand shall instruct many." (Daniel 11:32-33)[NKJV]

About His Grace:

Archbishop Cranmer takes as his inspiration the words of Sir Humphrey Appleby: ‘It’s interesting,’ he observes, ‘that nowadays politicians want to talk about moral issues, and bishops want to talk politics.’ It is the fusion of the two in public life, and the necessity for a wider understanding of their complex symbiosis, which leads His Grace to write on these very sensitive issues.

Cranmer's Law:

"It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a liberal is advanced, the probability of being accused of ‘bigotry’, ‘hatred’ or ‘intolerance’ approaches 1 (100%).”

Follow His Grace on

The cost of His Grace's conviction:

His Grace's bottom line:

Freedom of speech must be tolerated, and everyone living in the United Kingdom must accept that they may be insulted about their own beliefs, or indeed be offended, and that is something which they must simply endure, not least because some suffer fates far worse. Comments on articles are therefore unmoderated, but do not necessarily reflect the views of Cranmer. Comments that are off-topic, gratuitously offensive, libelous, or otherwise irritating, may be summarily deleted. However, the fact that particular comments remain on any thread does not constitute their endorsement by Cranmer; it may simply be that he considers them to be intelligent and erudite contributions to religio-political discourse...or not.

The Anglican Communion has no peculiar thought, practice, creed or confession of its own. It has only the Catholic Faith of the ancient Catholic Church, as preserved in the Catholic Creeds and maintained in the Catholic and Apostolic constitution of Christ's Church from the beginning.Dr Geoffrey Fisher, Archbishop of Canterbury, 1945-1961

British Conservatism's greatest:

The epithet of 'great' can be applied only to those who were defining leaders who successfully articulated and embodied the Conservatism of their age. They combined in their personal styles, priorities and policies, as Edmund Burke would say, 'a disposition to preserve' with an 'ability to improve'.

I am in politics because of the conflict between good and evil, and I believe that in the end good will triumph.Margaret Thatcher, Baroness Thatcher LG, OM, PC, FRS.(Prime Minister 1979-1990)

We have not overthrown the divine right of kings to fall down for the divine right of experts.Harold Macmillan, 1st Earl of Stockton, OM, PC.(Prime Minister 1957-1963)

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.Sir Winston Churchill, KG, OM, CH, TD, FRS, PC (Can).(Prime Minister 1940-1945, 1951-1955)

I am not struck so much by the diversity of testimony as by the many-sidedness of truth.Stanley Baldwin, 1st Earl Baldwin of Bewdley, KG, PC.(Prime Minister 1923-1924, 1924-1929, 1935-1937)

If you believe the doctors, nothing is wholesome; if you believe the theologians, nothing is innocent; if you believe the military, nothing is safe.Robert Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury, KG, GCVO, PC.(Prime Minister 1885-1886, 1886-1892, 1895-1902)

I am a Conservative to preserve all that is good in our constitution, a Radical to remove all that is bad. I seek to preserve property and to respect order, and I equally decry the appeal to the passions of the many or the prejudices of the few.Benjamin Disraeli KG, PC, FRS, Earl of Beaconsfield.(Prime Minister 1868, 1874-1880)

Public opinion is a compound of folly, weakness, prejudice, wrong feeling, right feeling, obstinacy, and newspaper paragraphs.Sir Robert Peel, Bt.(Prime Minister 1834-1835, 1841-1846)

I consider the right of election as a public trust, granted not for the benefit of the individual, but for the public good.Robert Jenkinson, 2nd Earl of Liverpool.(Prime Minister 1812-1827)

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.The Rt Hon. William Pitt, the Younger.(Prime Minister 1783-1801, 1804-1806)