Lightroom: Keywords don't sync between CC and Classic

Keywords do not sync correctly: When added on the mobile app (iOS), they do not appear in LR classic and not in LR Web (I deleted the new LR CC immediately, this version does not make sense to me). Same problem into the other direction: Keywords from LR classic do not appear on the mobile app. Attention: At this stage the whole keywording within the iOS app should not be used!

If it would be a "limitation", then we would have two different sets of keywords. We do not have two different sets of captions (they are synced) or copyrights (are synced too).This can not be intentionally, so it must be a bug.

Keywords sync from LR Classic to LR Mobile, but not from LR Mobile to LR Classic. Star ratings sync in both direction. Changes in picture sync in both directions. For me this missing keyword sync is a bug. And Adobe will fix it.

That's not right Peter. I would phrase it like this - and advise you to read carefully "Keywords sync from LR Classic to LR Mobile if the keywords have been saved directly into the image itself (not xmp sidecar) when the image is first uploaded, but not from LR Mobile to LR Classic"

Correct. So if you upload from a raw file the keywords will not sync. If you upload from a TIFF or JPEG and you've written the metadata to the file itself, they will sync, but only once. If you make any changes, those changes will not sync.

In response to Johan it has been my experience that it doesn't matter what file type you upload (RAW, DNG, TIF, JPG and even virtual copies) it will only sync the keywords one time from Classic to CC. I only use sidecar files for a specific something else so I can't speak to that here. All I do is type them into the keywords box before the original upload and they get synced even if they are for a RAW file. Most of what I sync is Nikon RAW. Yes I know I am digging up a 3 month old post but it is SUPER aggravating that this is still a thing.

This is appalling. I have a 50k image database that has been keyworded painstakingly over ten years and I use the keywords to find images. When I try to use Lightroom CC mobile I cannot see the keywords. That makes the product virtually useless in my view. It is like selling a car that has no lights. Yes, you can drive it but only in the daytime!!

Patrick can't use the filter function since he entered those keywords in Classic and Lightroom CC will not know about them since keywords don't sync from Classic to CC except for very limited circumstances (xmp files were written and it is the first sync)

For Patrick to use his Lightroom Classic CC keywords in the Lightroom CC ecosystem, he would have to perform a one-time catalog migration from Classic to CC - Desktop App. In the Migration process, the keyword hierarchy (if any) in Classic would be flattened in Lightroom CC. Keyword Synonyms would also be lost in the process.

Thanks for your suggestions but I spent the afternoon talking to Adobe and they have confirmed that they cannot show keywords that were generated in LR Classic in the CC mobile version. I get the impression that there is some fundamental architectural reason for this. The only way I have so far found to do what I want is to export images as jpgs into the same folder as the original raw files and simultaneously add back in to the LR Classic catalogue. The keywords are then embedded in the jpg so all versions of LR then see the keywords. I have spent the last ten years using the Classic version of LR so am reluctant to change and have not yet looked at the desktop version of CC. That may be the answer. Further investigation required.......

That is what this thread is all about. There are reasons but they are not completely insurmountable technically.If you have used Classic for that long you will be deeply disappointed by Lightroom CC on the desktop. It misses most of the essential features of Classic. You can't print, you can't easily publish images to social media, you can't export to anything but sRGB jpeg, you can't do smart collections, keywords are flat, and on and on. The only things CC can do that Classic can't are the uploading of full raw images to the cloud (which Classic can't do for no real reason) and it has an artificial intelligence built in (only when you are internet connected) that allows you to search for visual elements that the AI can detect. That's it. I think the best use case for Lightroom CC is as a mobile companion to Classic. I will sometimes travel with just an iPad and import images to it and do small edits. The images will show up fully edited when I get back on my Classic machine. Same with raw images shot on my phone using the CC app. They just show up in Classic neatly filed in my filing hierarchy (an option you have to enable). Lightroom CC on the computer is really just a port of the mobile Lightroom to the desktop. It is similarly limited. If you are an iPhone shooter or have limited number of images and have limited needs (you never print for example) then it is really neat that everything syncs across platforms seamlessly. As soon as you do anything more complex with your images, you need Classic.

Stil do not get also why you cannot upload full raw on classic (at least linked to your catalog). I will never subscribe to CC for that, but I would subscribe to the 1To plan tomorrow if this is allowed. To sync smart previews between phone and computer the 20Go is enough.
I really do not understand this keyword limitation. Does not really make sens and the technical explanation is BS.

1) Keywords in CC are flat, not hierarchical as they are in Classic. Okay, Keywords in a JPG file are flat as well and LR seems to be able to bridge that gap OK. On export, LR keywords are flattened. On import JPG keywords already present in Classic are just used on the image wherever they are in the hierarchy and any new KW's in the JPG are added to the KW list at the the root level of the hierarchy. So, they already have the algorithm to do this

2) Adobe would like to minimize the use of KW's in CC (IMHO) and have people rely on their AI (Sensei) engine. So, other than not wanting to expend resources on Keywords, is not a technical reason preventing the sync of KW's.

3) Users may not want all their Keywords from Classic to migrate to the cloud. This is a true statement. But, right now, in many situations when you add an image to a synced collection at already copies Classic KW's to the cloud. And, just adding a 4th check box to on keyword's in Classic called "Sync this Keyword in Adobe Cloud" to decide whether or not to copy and sync each keyword with the cloud.

4) Keyword sync is too complex for the skill level of the programmers at Adobe. Well, this is all we are left with as a "technical" reason not to sync keywords but is absolute nonsense. If they can figure out how to sync all the complexities of image edits, doing the same thing with Keywords is trivial.

So, no matter what they say about "technical reasons" - what they mean is "we don't want to spend any significant money on improving Classic as it will divert resources from CC development and we are trying to get people off of Classic and on to CC so why would be do something that would encourage people to stay on Classic?

And even: at first, they said it was a technical reason. No one believed it and now it is "by design" and "Classic will not get any new sync feature" and "switch to LR CC if you want more sync capabilities".

Your statement

what they mean is "we don't want to spend any significant money on
improving Classic as it will divert resources from CC development and we
are trying to get people off of Classic and on to CC so why would be do
something that would encourage people to stay on Classic?

is exacly right. I would also add: "Adobe wants the users to switch to cloud also because it's more difficult to migrat to another solution afterwards!"

What I do not get is the attitude of Adobe, there is industrial secrets involved here. They can say something like “we want to bring all the (keys) possibilities of LR classic to CC little by little to this modern platform so nobody will need classic anymore. Therefore our focus is on making this a reality as soon as possible. The sync between classic and CC is more based on best effort.”
It would be clear for everybody.
The subscribion sheme imply a trusted partnership between us, clients and adobe.

What they say is that Lightroom Classic is the desktop oriented app and Lightroom CC is the cloud oriented app. They could have (and maybe they should have) removed all sync features from Lightroom Classic, to make it perfectly clear where this app stands. I’m glad that they didn’t do that, but the result is that people keep having expectations for new or improved sync features that will not arrive.

If Adobe develops something new it should make sense to its users, right? That is my expectation and it is not being fulfilled at all. What sense does it make to have two independet solutions, if one could support the other? Everybody is talking about workflow and what does Adobe deliver? Workflowinteruptions! Sorry for being a bit emotional here, but it is true not "only" in this instance but also cannot sync libraries from LR CC cloudversion with Adobe Portfolio both ways, neither export file names into Adobe PF. So each single one a beautifully made app but they do not function together.

It is still possible to buy Lightroom 6 perpetual licence here in the UK but I have heard rumours that may well be the last version. Sylvain, have you seen an official Adobe announcement that the non-CC version of Lightroom will be discontinued or are you just assuming that will happen?

Thanks Sylvain. That is very helpful. Do you know if there is a document anywhere which describes the features in LR Classic that do not exist in the desktop CC implementation? I have only just started to test the desktop CC version and there seem to be a huge number of things missing.

@Karl. Thanks for your posts. I only started using this forum a couple of days ago so still getting used to how it works. The reason why I am interested in the future of standalone Lightroom is that I am working out ways to manage my workflow and one possibility (which would not involve losing keywords) is to use standalone Lightroom on both desktop and laptop and sync them by installing a shared catalog in the cloud (eg in Dropbox). Since LR6 is now a dead end that is probably not a very good solution! Thanks to everyone for their help on this.

Yes, I agree with everything mentioned. I am highly content with the capabilities of LR Classic. The only drawback is that you need a notebook if you want to catalogue and edit photos while travelling. And I was real happy after Adobe announced a LR mobile. For me the main reason to work with LR CC (mobile) would be as a companion to LR Classic while travelling light. And I would gladly upgrade my Adobe plan to 1TB cloud storage if keywords entered in LR CC (mobile) would synchronize with LR Classic (if there is just a flat keyword hierarchy available in LR CC mobile, so be it for the time being) AND if there is a decent and acceptable way to add keywords in LR CC mobile (which is definitely not the case right now, what is offered is a cruel joke).

Without the above-mentioned features there is absolutely no reason for me to upgrade my Adobe plan. I have all of my photos of the last 45 years catalogued in LR Classic and there is absolutely no need to access them from every device (MacBook’s, iPads, iPhones etc.) I own. But if it comes to the couple of actual photographic projects I am working at a time access from a variety of devices would be of great help.

In my humble opinion Adobe is missing on a great business opportunity. The only reason for staying with Adobe right now is that there is no real alternative in the market (meaning: nobody offers a decent environment where you can catalogue and edit your pictures on an iPad while travelling and have all data synchronized to a Laptop afterwards). If this would change in the future Adobe might rethink their position .....

And please remember: this is written by someone who loves his Adobe products!

"Do you know if there is a document anywhere which describes the features in LR Classic that do not exist in the desktop CC implementation?"

Last updated November 5, 2018 so pretty current and informative. Keep in mind this is a moving target and it's expected Adobe will add more features currently in LR Classic to CC Desktop, Mobile, and Web apps.

You say "I'm not so sure if this is true because they are continuously adding new features to Classic. "

Most all the significant features they add to Classic are in the develop module. The fact that these get added to classic is because they are part of ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) which is the code base used by Photoshop as well as LR Classic on the standard computer side and LR CC and Photoshop Mobile on the portable side. In other words they only have to code it once and it becomes available in all the systems. then for each platform they just need to add the slider or button to invoke to the code.

John and Johan, looks like you have insider information. Ok, then the whole keyword sync is useless. Shame on Adobe Software Engineering :-)
I am an Engineer by myself and know how difficult such a sync mechanismn is. Let us hope the best that they change their minds and implement it later.

Have tested the sync of caption/subtitle and it working fine. You can change it in Web, LR Mobile or LR Classic and sync is done in each direction.
This gives me hope that Adobe is fixing the Keyword Sync. No Engineer is implementing caption sync and not keyword sync. Anyway, caption sync is working for me because I am doing all my keyword tagging with Photo Mechanics and fill caption field automatically with name of picture folder and keywords.

If you consider it, caption sync is easier for the engineer - it's just reading/writing a photo's text entry. Each keyword is a separate entity, so syncing would need to loop through the keyword structure looking for matching items (note hierarchy is an issue) and then apply those keywords to the photo. So more difficult, but not rocket science - if the will is there.

PhotoMechanic, like Bridge, just uses xmp to store tags and other metadata, and LR simply reads that.

Yes, it is easier, but Engineers love a challenge. But could be they were stopped by Marketing or Finance.
I am using Photo Mechanics for some years, because PM does not have a catalog. In LR Classic you can create a Smart Collection to find all picture with changed metadata by third party apps and then you can read all these updated meta data. This is useful if you do all your tagging in PM and want to have this info synced to LR mobile. Currently I am using Mylio for that, but my hope was to have all in LR. I am not giving up hope.

As everything else is synchronised between LR Classic and Lightroom CC, It seems very surprising that there is no connection in both direction for keywords. I really hope that this problem will be solved very soon. It seems that many people are, as I am, waiting for that !Many thanks , Olivier

Right, according to Victoria Bampton (Lightroom Queen), who is pretty well-plugged-in to Adobe, "no new sync functionality will be added to Classic (so keywords and collection hierarchy won’t sync)." Of course, they might change this decision if they get enough feedback from customers.

This thread is quite confusing. Is there an Adobe document someplace that explains this in all its permutations?

However, this may explain why some of my keyworded images from LR Classic show Keywords in LR/CC and some do not. And, that explanation - according to this thread - is that some of my synced images have metadata written back to the image file and some don't - which is entirely possible.

I just took one of my CR2 RAW files which did not show any keywords in LR/CC and saved the metadata to an XMP file in LR Classic. Indeed, the keywords did not appear in LR/CC desktop or LR Web. However, an DNG image with saved metadata does show Keywords in both LR/CC Desktop and LR/CC Web but changes made to keywords in classic do not migrate to the cloud.

I think I need another computer to help me understand this logic which is quite inconsistent. Given Adobe's justification of no folders being "why should you care what folder something is in as long as you can find it:" - I'm surprised that they would give us a situation where you have to know the underlying file type in order to know how the system will work. I'm hoping that is a bug and not a design feature.

Leading questions! Though I have (strong) opinions on all this, I recommend reading Bampton's recent blog posts: https://www.lightroomqueen.com/blog/. In my own opinion, Adobe has for several years pared back investment in desktop LR, putting in the bare minimum to maintain desktop LR's revenue stream. I don't see that changing.

It is disappointing to learn that keyword syncing with Lightroom Mobile only works with the less feature-rich Lightroom CC and not with Lightroom Classic CC. I hope Adobe reconsiders and adds that functionality to Classic. It should've been added at introduction of Mobile.

I understand one of the main reasons for this is that Adobe changed to a flat keyword hierarchy in Lightroom CC while Lightroom Classic has nested keywords (you know like Europe -> Iceland -> Reykjavik -> opera house). Lightroom CC cannot do any of that and likely will never gain this capability as apparently it is too hard for the typical user to use. Most of my keywords are hierarchical and I can't see a flat hierarchy working well for me.

I have wasted many hours keywording images on Lightroom CC, only to find that they haven't synced back to Lightroom Classic CC. I was excited about Lightroom CC, as I thought it would be really useful for when I'm out on the road I would be able to do all my processing on my laptop, then sync everything back to my main editing machine when I got home. It sort of half works, which is disappointing.

Really? You need to ask? Lightroom CC has almost none of the functionality needed to replace Lightroom Classic and it mandates use of the cloud for the RAW images, something that is impossible for most because of bandwidth constraints - I have the fastest internet connection available in the street where I live, to upload a single RAW image takes minutes (and they aren’t that big). My mobile plan is expensive and is capped at 200 MB/month - any mobile use of original RAW images is out of the question.

But for those asking here the killer of the new dumbed down Lightroom CC would be the lack of hierarchical keywords!

I was answering your question more genericly, I myself didn’t spent as much time on keywords in LR on my mobile device in the end (unlike the guy you responded to). Still I was pissed that I have spent time on a lost cause, LR CC has a bug if it even allows keyword entry for images where it knows not to sync them back!

I do use a combination of hierarchical and non hierarchical keywords, so even to have those non hierarchical ones sync back would have been helpful for me. But it’s a major bug to even give the impression that you can keyword for smart previews originating from LR Classic. I am a software developer myself and if I were to be given the task to implement a feature like that then I would have to make it work for all input data or at the very least prevent it’s use when it’s not feasible to work.

And the sorry excuse of “LR CC users don’t understand hierarchical keywords” doesn’t work, if LR CC is ever to get to replace LR Classic then it must provide these as well!

I do agree that Adobe's communication on the lack of keyword sync with Classic has left a lot to be desired, and I think we'll see more of these issues crop up as the gap starts to widen, with more features being added to the mobile apps without being synced back to Classic.

In Adobe's mind, the LRCC mobile apps are intended to sync with the LRCC desktop apps from this time on. They didn't remove the existing sync functionality from Classic, but they didn't add new keyword sync functionality to Classic either. They are trying to separate the two different mindsets (desktop based vs cloud sync), because trying to shoehorn cloud sync into a desktop-focused app just doesn't work well. I'm not going to comment on the rights or wrongs of those decisions, but that's what they're thinking.

I think some things they have done are indefensible. Like the impression that you can enter keywords for smart previews in LR CC. LR CC knows these are originating from Lightroom Classic! If I were a photographer that makes money off his photos then I would have sent an invoice for the time wasted on keywording in LR CC!

For me - and many others - the cloud is only a supplement to the desktop version and there simply isn’t a way to make the cloud version viable, not today, not ever. I am often photographing in remote areas where I will not even have cell phone reception - and even if I had then having to manage battery charges due to the large draw of a mobile data connection would prohibit the use of the cloud anyway!

Somehow I think the “cloud is everything” developers seem to sit on high bandwidth backbone connections. Maybe Adobe should send their LR CC developers to the suburbs of smaller towns where there are more realistic bandwidth or even make them use mobile Edge connections (because they are commonly encountered as soon as you leave the urban environment) to see how well their apps scale...

> you can enter keywords for smart previews in LR CC. LR CC knows these are originating from Lightroom Classic!

That would certainly be a good way of distinguishing them, although I imagine some people would still try to add keywords to originals added directly to the mobile apps and wonder why the keywords aren't appearing in Classic.

If I were a photographer that makes money off his photos then I would
have sent an invoice for the time wasted on keywording in LR CC!

My Syncomatic plugin could recover some of that wasted time. Using LRCC, they could export copies of the images they were misled into keywording in Mobile or LRCC, then use the plugin in Lightroom "Classic" to sync the keywords from these temporary copies to the originals.

I sincerely wish I didn't have to suggest this workaround, and wish Adobe had put effort into implementing a proper mobile keywording solution.

The features I'd miss from moving over to Lightroom CC full time are mainly around import and export:

Applying import preset

Applying metadata presets

Creating a second copy

Push collections

Export presets

KEYWORDING

That's before I get onto how much it would cost to have my whole archive in the cloud!

My way of working is that when I am on the road, I want to get my images processed, keyworded and uploaded as soon as possible. Then when I get back to base, I want them added into my main catalog.

When Lightroom CC was announced I was one of the few photographers who felt positive towards it - I thought I would be able to do away with my clunky workflow of creating and importing new catalogs each trip. However Adobe were ever so slightly off target - what could have been really helpful turns out to be not much use at all.

On my laptop I've got both CC to access the important pictures from my archive and Classic CC, to use my clunky workflow for new images.

I fully agree with Kaffeesegler. I have been using Lightroom since LR1 and I am really fond of this software. Lightroom CC seems to me a huge step forward and I try to use it on my laptop for more than 2 months. However key-words are a serious issue. Compared to Lightroom Classic Lightroom CC handles key words very poorly and above all sync between LR Classic and LR CC doesn't really work for key words. For me this is a huge drawback and prevents me tu use LR CC efficiently on my laptop. I hope that Adobe will change his mind and reconsider key words in LR CC.

Good evening!Should not keywords be synchronized between Lightroom Classic CC and Lightroom Mobile?Those that I insert in the Mobile version should end in the Classic version and vice versa ...I am wrong?

I think Adobe is clear in how it looks at both. You and I may not like it, but their point of view is simple and clear. Lightroom Classic is the version for local use, not cloud synching. Yes, it does have a few synching options from the time that Lightroom CC was not yet around, and Adobe won't REMOVE those options now that Lightroom CC is available, but Lightroom Classic is not meant for cloud synching, period. If cloud synching is important to you, they want you to use Lightroom CC. As said, I don't like it either and I'm not defending it, just explaining why you can continue this thread forever without anything changing.

Too bad LR Cc is does not respond to many photographers needs.
People will continue to request this feature because there is no reason for Adobe not to finish their work. It is clearly a marketing decision and not a technical limitation.

It's probably both technical and marketing. Lightroom CC only knows 'flat' keywords, Lightroom Classic has hierarchical keywords (meaning you could have two identical keywords in different hierarchies). That means that you can't simply sync them right now. Of course it should be possible to find a solution, so it's probably a marketing decision not to spend time and money on that.

We can understand the logic. One is for standalone, the other is for cloud.But how the hell because that if we want the cloud, we need to leave all what perfectly make Lightroom functionalities be Lightroom.I think LR CC is now a 24 month old program development and such basic feature are not implemented!They have to hire some Indians cheap and competent team and we will have all this feature in months.

Have converted / filled my keywords to others fields which are synched, but the VERY BAD thing is that without an online connection I cannot search for pictures in LR CC mobile. Imagine you want to show pictures to friends and you cannot find , because Adobe are not allowing and offline search. Very disappointing. And I pay monthly for this software.

I tried using the new LR CC on my desktop, together with LR Classic CC. I found the latter to be similar to CC for Web, with some additions. Syncing worked fine if, for instance, I added a star rating to one of my photos, removed it from an album, or stopped syncing a specific album. Right away, the changes would propagate to LR CC and CC for Web.

However, the same could not be said for keywords (which, of course, are only relevant to LR CC, but not CC for Web). First off, I discovered that LR CC was only picking up keywords that had been written as metadata to disk. That means that before syncing a collection from LR Classic, I needed to save metadata to file. If I had already synced the collection and then saved the metadata, the changes were not picked up by LR CC. Even if I quit and restarted the program, the metadata was not reloaded. And that's despite the fact that LR Classic would immediately sync the file anew whenever I saved the metadata to file.

The only way I could get LR CC to re-read the metadata was to first stop syncing the collection from within LR Classic, then to delete all the individual photos from the "All Photos" view within LR CC, and then to sync the collection again.

(Incidentally, related to this is the issue of how to control which keywords are written to file. I had indicated not to export certain keywords, yet those were still saved as metadata and picked up by LR CC. And even this behavior was not consistent. Certain higher-level keywords appear to have been applied to some photos but not others within the same album.)

Another issue is that there doesn't seem to be a way to edit keywords. At some point, I had corrected the spelling for someone's name keyword on LR Classic. The earlier spelling seems to have been saved to metadata, because when I synced a photo of the person, LR CC had a keyword for each spelling. I could remove the incorrect keyword from the individual photo, but there didn't seem to be a way to do this across the whole system.

Unfortunately, the forum software makes merging of the associated comments very painful. If you see particular comments you want visible here, I suggest copying them here under your own name (with attribution).

> I could remove the incorrect keyword from the individual photo, but there didn't seem to be a way to do this across the whole system.

There's a trick on the desktop LR CC app. Select All Photos, then the Refine button. Filter to show the photos with the "incorrect" keyword, then select all. Then in the Keywords panel, it'll show the incorrect keyword, and clicking on it will delete it from all of the selected photos.

Update: In the meanwhile there seems to start some kind of caption sync between LR classic and LR mobile, although I did not check that with hierarchical keywords.But I am happy that captions which I added "on the road" are no longer lost but show up in LR classic

Workflow Question - on syncing metadata. I am a new Lightroom user. Through lots of trial and error, I realized I needed BOTH Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic which I now have. As many have discussed, and I have learned through painful experiences, both versions don't always play nicely with one another and are a bit of a disaster.

For those using both Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic, can you share the most effective workflow that you use?

Here is what I have figured out so far. 1 - Download new photos to Lightroom CC ( I heard in a training, that if you upload to Lightroom Classic they will not sync with Lightroom CC).2 - In Lightroom CC - rate all photos with stars and checkmarks, etc.3 - In Lightroom CC - Add Keywords (After doing this in CC with 2,000 photos, and syncing with classic, I found out the keywords don't upload to Classic.) If I do this in Lightroom CC will the keywords be added to the metadata on the web? OR do keywords need to be done in Lightroom Classic, or do I have to do it in both places?4 - Should I add the Title and Caption for my photos in Lightroom CC or in Lightroom Classic and why?5 - Then Switch to Lightroom Classic and sync the photo's and then add the metadata, creator data, and location to all of my photos as this feature ISN'T available in CC and is only available in Lightroom Classic.6 - Then add my watermark to all of my photos in Lightroom Classic, as this feature is also NOT AVAILABLE in Lightroom CC.7 - Image hardening? What do you use for additional protection of your photos?

From this point, what is the best way to get all of my images uploaded onto my website? Do I try and do it from Lightroom Classic OR Lightroom CC. Which keywords and metadata will the crawlers on google pick up when trying to index the images? Will it pick up the keywords in Lightroom CC OR Lightroom Classic?Should I even bother putting keywords into Lightroom Classic? Does anyone know these questions?

Is there anything in my workflow you would suggest doing differently or add anything?Has anyone on here used the Plug-ins suggested above to sync their keywords or other data? I think it is called the Photographers Toolbox?

Any other things you would suggest as a newer user to Lightroom? Did I forget anything?

My advice is not to bother with Lightroom CC, it isn’t fit for use by serious photographers.

I do everything in Lightroom Classic and forego the syncing.

What platform is your website on? I use Portfolio, so have a collection for that. I also use WordPress and use their Lightroom plug in to export straight from Lightroom Classic - another thing you can’t do on CC. It is worth searching for your website platform plus Lightroom to see if anyone has already made a plug in.

Same as Lewis if you are a pro and run a website do not bother with CC. CC is a fun addition to Classic at best to do some minor editing on a mobile device from the couch and to shoot raw on your phone and have them sync automatically to your desktop in Classic. It is not a full-fledged solution. It might turn into one in the far future but isn't near one yet. It is only near if you only live online and have only very minor online sharing needs.

To answer 1 by 1:1 - they told you wrong in your training. You can sync from Classic to CC. The only limitation is that it only syncs smart previews and not the full raw files. The smart previews are more than enough to edit and caption/title on your mobile device. Moreover, the advantage of this is that this allows you to selectively sync as in Classic you have to mark what you want to sync. CC cannot selectively sync. It always syncs everything. With the Classic syncing method, you can even after the fact upload the same raw files in CC and they will get automatically linked giving you the full raw online.

2 and 3 - stars sync back and forth to Classic as you found. Keywords don't. CC has a flat keyword hierarchy and Classic supports nested hierarchies (e.g. California -> San Francisco -> Bay Bridge). I prefer the nested variant to be able to distinguish Crater Lake Oregon from Crater Lake Colorado. That is not possible in CC. There is a way to sync keywords from Classic to CC if you have already fully keyworded in Classic before you set the image to sync with CC. Best advice -> don't bother keywording in CC.

4 - titles and captions sync so it doesn't matter where you do this.

5 - This is exactly why you should always import in Classic as it can be setup to automatically add all your identifying metadata to all your images on import with a metadata preset. An essential feature not available in CC.

6 - It is possible to export simple watermarks on images from CC, but only from the mobile version. Indeed watermarking is full fledged on Classic and virtually non-existent in CC.

7 - Make sure you have embedded metadata with your copyright and use watermarks on exported images is basically the only thing you can do. These are both possible on Classic and not possible or very hard in CC.

website: Don't bother with CC. it is only useful for using with the lightroom web stuff which is easy but not scalable and not useful for anybody doing pro work. If you do anything else for web services (smug mug, zenfolio, etc.) you are lightyears better off with Classic and using publish services. It is possible to make it work but not without jumping through many hoops.

The bottom line is that CC is fun and OK as a companion to Classic to do some light edits on a tablet or to ingest images on the road that then automatically sync down to your main catalog. It is actually quite great for this. Keywording is not well done so don't bother trying to do that in CC. I would advice anybody wanting to do more than share one or two images online to use Classic as their main platform. CC is just still extremely far from being a realistic solution for even moderate photographic needs. Editing images is great and full-fledged. It's great that it syncs everywhere but just misses basically every other feature.

Bravo! Over my 50 years in computer system development, marketing, and sales I've seen this happen numerous times! It's a hallmark shift from Engineering focused product development to a fully Marketing driven model.

The current Classic & CC product models target two different groups (experienced desktop and casual mobile users). In my opinion there's no way to satisfy both groups with the one CC product. By allowing the "compatibility gap" to widen between Classic and CC Adobe are burning the bridge to maintaining pro and serious user market share. It's a paradigm shift toward focus on easier to use "creativeproducts" with Ai and mobile focused GUI.

I understand Adobe's desire to capture the untapped mobile user market. However, throwing the baby out with the bathwater is totally unnecessary in my opinion. It's not too late for Adobe to "fix" this situation. I fact if Adobe had taken additional steps to maintain compatibility between the two products this wouldn't even be necessary. Unfortunately, Adobe has stated no new mobile features will be added to LR Classic so the direction is pretty clear!

@Jao van de Lagemaat, thank you for the detailed breakdown, it is so helpful! I really appreciate it, this helps clarify things so much! Can you explain further your statement in #1 - " With the Classic syncing method, you can even after the fact upload the same raw files in CC and they will get automatically linked giving you the full raw online." If I want to back up all my photos online through Lightroom CC at full resolution, and I mainly use Lightroom Classic, what is the best way to do that?

@Lewis Craik thank you for your input and for the info on the plug-in for Lightroom all of these tips will make the process so much easier! Todd Shaner thank you as well.

First and fastest even though it is more steps is to import through Classic setting the new imports to sync. This will upload smart previews of the images to the cloud. If this is done, then open up Lightroom CC on your desktop and import the same images. Lightroom CC will sync the full raw images to the cloud and link them to the smart previews already there so you won't get duplication doing this.

Simplest but by far the slowest is to ONLY import the images in Lightroom CC. They will sync up to the cloud and then download to Lightroom Classic. The advantage of this method is that it is simple. The disadvantage is that it is really slow as you have to upload the images to the cloud first and then download them (that's all automatic of course but still will take a while even on fast connections) before you can start using them in Classic. That is why method 1 is best.

This is certainly a disappointing limitation. But what's especially disappointing is that it's entirely unexpected (since all other fields are synchronized), and there's no communication in the product that this field won't be synchronized.

At minimum, I'd recommend adding a warning to the user the first time they try to edit keywords on a collection synchronized with Lightroom Classic; that would avoid a lot of frustration and confusion as users attempt to troubleshoot why keywords aren't synchronizing (even though everything else is).

I agree that it's a huge omission, and I want to see it rectified, but while they look like strings in the UI, I believe the internal implementation is much more complex (in order to support hierarchies and global keyword renaming, etc.).

For me one of the most valuable cloud integrations would be synchronized keywords between the Lightroom Classic CC infrastructure and Lightroom CC - because I like to use my tablet at home on the garden deck or sofa to surf the web and then, when I feel like it, I would like to use it to add keywords to images that still didn't get any. So I am forced to sit in a stuffy edge of my workspace which I have set up to have little outside light (so that I get the benefit of correct image display on my main screen) and work on those tags. It really should have been there years ago.

Oh, and I would like to be able to search through my synchronized collections in Lightroom CC - I sometimes do in promptu presentations of some of my images, I would really like to be able to get all my images of say a specific butterfly to show the best of them to someone who asked - currently I have to remember in which collection and approximately where in that collection I may have one of these images.

The lack of these keyword functions currently is one of the biggest omissions in the whole of the Adobe Cloud...

Hallo Karl Günter, the missing keyword sync from LR Classic to LR Mobile is one issue, but a much bigger issue is that you cannot search existing keywords when there is no internet connection. Imagine you sit in a beer garden and want to show pictures and it is not possible. Or sitting in the airplane and want to search a picture, again, not possible. OK, the new advanced autodetect scenes need internet, but there are still normal keywords and descriptions. In addition of that, the preview of pictures has issues in offline mode as well. You see only a black preview for many pictures. As son the internet connection is back all these black previews appear immediately. LR Mobile is no longer usable in such situations. OK, Adobe is adding more an more features and I love to see that, but I need the offline functionality as well.Let us hope the bestPeter

@Peter: It may be worth creating a new feature request for offline search to cover that scenario. There is another post regarding search capabilities, but it doesn't seem specific to the offline scenario.

I too naively assumed that Keywords entered in Lightroom on my iPad would sync back to theClassic version on my Mac. Having done so for many hundreds of photos on my last trip I now find I have to do the work all over again. Frankly the split of Lightroom into various iterations is confusing and not helped by Adobe failing to make the limitation clear in anything easily accessible to the normal user.

You haven’t been naive assuming the keywords should sync. Everything editable in LR should sync. And there isn’t even a warning text box!
There is absolutely no excuse for such a huge bug.
The “technical” explanations consisting of keywords type is totall bullshit.

Please, Adobe, implement keyword sync between Classic and Mobile: this is a critical feature for searching and selecting images in Mobile. Sensei search is great, but it cannot cover abstract keywords that describe all sorts of non-visual aspects in images.

As mentioned in the original topic, Adobe has indicated there were will be no more feature enhancements to sync with LR Classic, so in particular, they have no plans to sync keywords. But if enough people complain, maybe they'll change their mind before the next ice age.

I think you need to differentiate between files that are imported into Lightroom CC and then keyworded - those keywords do sync back AFAIK, keywords added in Lightroom CC to files from synchronized Lightroom Classic CC collections though do not propagate either way...

Karl, you might be thinking of somewhat different special case: When a photo in LR Classic is first synced with LR CC, any keywords previously assigned in LR Classic get copied into LR CC, ﻿provided﻿ ﻿﻿that the keywords had been written into the file's metadata (using the LR Classic command Metadata > Save Metadata To File or the option Catalog Settings > Automatically Write Changes Into XMP).

But in general, once a photo has been initially synced between LR CC and LR Classic, any subsequent changes to keywords in LR CC don't get synced to LR Classic, and vice versa.

That makes the break even worse - keywording is one of the things I really like to be able to do in Lightroom CC as is searching for images with a certain keyword to present them or select among similar images. For serious editing Lightroom CC is all but useless on mobile devices like an iPad for me...

providedthat the keywords had been written into the
file's metadata (using the LR Classic command Metadata > Save
Metadata To File or the option Catalog Settings > Automatically Write
Changes Into XMP).

and provided that you have not generated smart previews for those photos before saving metadata to file. This is because the sync process always tries to upload any existing smart preview rather than generate a new one, so if you generate them before saving metadata to file they won't have the keywords baked in. So it's a "special case" with numerous caveats.

I think many of us feel let down by Adobe's failure to implement some kind of mobile keywording that can be used with Classic.

Not syncing keywords is probably the most silly decision in Lightroom CC that Adobe has made. CC is perfect for taking you Classic Catalogue Pictures with you on the road on a smaller device, so that you can cull through photos (which works fine) and tag them (which is not possible at all if you want to continue in Classic later).Please Adobe have mercy on everybody an sync keywords across these platforms! And if you decide to do so, please include the Sensei-Data as well (I recently found out that they are included in the Sync-Protocoll which can be downloaded in Lightroom Classic), so it should not be that difficult).

From what I understand, it is deliberate for a technical reason. Lightroom Classic has hierarchical keywords, meaning you can have the same keyword appear in more than one hierarchy. Take 'Los Angeles' for example. Most people would only think about the city in California, but there are many cities with that name around the world. That is where syncing becomes a big mess. When the keyword 'Los Angeles' comes in, how is Lightroom to know which one it is? This is also why Lightroom CC does have keywords, but not hierarchical.

Of course it should be possible to find a solution for this, but apparently that took so much work that they decided not to do it. Furthermore, Lightroom Classic is not meant to be part of Lightroom CC in the first place. Its syncing capabilities are more or less left-overs from the time that Lightroom Mobile existed but Lightroom CC did not. I'm sure that now that Lightroom CC for the desktop exists, Adobe would rather terminate any syncing in Lightroom Classic than enhance it.

There is also a point that you all miss here : Lr CC relies on AI to describe the contents of the pictures. IMHO, Adobe wants to put all the efforts in this area, and not cope anymore with classical - and let's be honest - outdated tasks like keywording.

Then Adobe needs to have a poll of what their users expect. I expect never to be able to use such an AI because I need to be precise in my keywords - I need to be able to find a "Bläuling" butterfly (meaning a group of butterflies that are predominantly blue) even though it is a butterfly of a suborder of that group that is metallic red...

Gilles, I don’t think that any generic AI will ever be able to solve the more complicated issues. I have images of gendermixes (don’t know the correct english name for such a phenomenon) where an individual butterfly exhibits traits of both male and female forms but you only can tell if you correlate the species that are known to exist in that area with other information. It’s serious research to be able to keyword that image correctly. And don’t get me started on the orchid hybrids. Sometimes you are only able to identify the hybrid by knowing which species are adjacent, which insects pollinate said orchids, which flowering times are overlapping in the area (for example in more northern areas Orchis militaris and Orchis anthropophora have non overlapping flowering times, thus hybrids are highly unlikely to be created - just 700km further south the two species share flowering times and hybrids are plentiful. Only a highly specific AI would be able to determine the elder species - and that’s just a very narrow field.

IMHO no AI will be ever (at least in my hopefully not too short lifetime) able to replace the sort of keywording I need...

The real fact is that Lr Classic and Lr CC are two different work environments, for different users, and you should understand it, as Adobe has always been totally clear with that. You are simply not supposed to use both programs.Syncing complex keywords hierarchy is difficult, and Lr Classic is not up to that task. Just to understand, look at the many problems when you simply sync collections to the cloud : slow sync, stuck files, etc. I believe that Adobe tried to balance the user needs (and requests) and the technical risks, and this balance was not achievable.

The real fact Gilles is 1) we have understand 2)it is not because we understand we are not allowed to complain.

It is unbelievable everything is synching perfectly, I have to admit this is a real performance and can understand how difficult it is to do, really.

It just seems the last step was not achieve for political reasons. By design as previously mentionned.

We too understand hierarchy in keyword add complexity to the complexity. I personally do not use this. My keywords are very specific (technical/legal. I'm not able to sync a full 2 way.But keyword is just the tip of the iceberg.

It is ok, Classic and CC are 2 different offer for different users an so on,

CC is just a pre-alpha software with too much limitation to enter in a real production environnement.

Maybe we are not supposed to use both software BUT I've never see on there advert.

And if we use both it is not by nostalgia but because the switch is just not feasible because once again CC weakness.

We can share so much about those points... but let focus about the keyword sync.

In a strict technical terms, I can't understand why it is so complex to sync a keyword which can simply be embedded in the photo??? Everything is embedded and/or sync but the keyword.

What's the point? Adobe is kidding us. That's the real fact.

Adobe have to listen to our customer.

If customer want a real keyword management it is because users need it in CC.If customer asks a real sync it is because Adobe is not able to provide an real keyword management in CC and we need to use Classic.If customer ask a non case sensitive or a list of already keyword it is because it is far more efficient and logic.You can't deny or forget you and adobe earn money thanks to your valued customers.

Olivier, don't get me wrong : I perfectly understand your needs and your concerns. I have no clue if this situation will change - I doubt - but I'm pretty sure that Lr CC will get autotag features one day, which will be a huge step forward. I think the problem we are all facing is that we are at a turning point and it is never easy.

You are right Gilles, I do really appreciate LR CC, this turning point is critical but mandatoryMaybe autotag will be efficient enough in some days, but I wish I can keep things in control and search offline.

@gilles, as I explained autotagging is a total gimmick to me. For me it's vital to be able to search for keywords and change them when being offline and they need to synchronize to my office system - and the Lightroom CC cloud infrastructure (excluding the synchronized Lightroom Classic CC smart previews) is simply not ever going to cut the mustard. I couldn't even use it to manage the images of one day - because then my mobile data cap for the month would be hit within a few days, or sometimes even a few hours.

Autotag does not mean you can not add your own tags. I don't see why the two cold not exist in parallel. Let AI generate keywords, and us add our ours. The search function could only be better with this :) (even with a toggle for the AI keywords... 'cause you never know...)

Like you said, AI could recognize an orchid but certainly not a hybrid :)And when you add a butterfly on it...

I really don't think that this specific issue is a "mandatory" necessity

LR CC will not be a usable alternative for some of us as long as there's the requirement to upload everything via cloud/internet.

However, extending the workflow e.g. by being able to edit changes especially to meta information via cloud/mobile is a nice thing. They did it with a lot of data already and - from a technological perspective - there's no reason to omit keywording.

In addition, I concur with those people who already explained why AI cannot be a replacement for existing keywording. I regard auto-tagging the same way as LR Classic's face recognition: it's a handy thing to speed up my workflow but it needs supervision and correction (e.g. turned heads) and I will never be able to rely solely on its capabilites.

Also: I like and do use hierarchical keywords. Pity they didn't bother to add this proven feature as base system in LR CC. Again: it's not too hard to implement from a technical point of view and people who prefer flat lists are free to use them.

Agreed Antoine, we need to keep the possibility to add tags manually - which is the case in Lr CC, even the mobile and the web versions. Only autotag is missing.However, I wouldn't bet about identifying or not an hybrid or a butterfly on it. We are not there yet, but it will be possible one day, an probably faster than we can thought.As an example, Google Photos is able to recognize dog breeds and using their AI through the AnyVision plugin for Lr, it was able to identify and tag a Mercedes300 SL ;-)

@Gilles, sorry, nature is so diverse - I have photos of net winged insects that look to all intents and purposes like butterflies (in German their name also alludes to that fact, they are called "Schmetterlinghaft" which translates to "butterfly like"). I wouldn't trust any AI to correctly identify that. And I have photos of butterflies that look like hornets or wasps - including the translucent wings. I don't believe that any general purpose AI (and that's what we are talking about with regard to the keywording AI in Lightroom CC) will ever be able to cope with specialist fields of expertise.

Happy to see some really constructive criticism about tag, tag management and autotag. Sometime I'm afraid to be alone with this sort of problem or workflow

To summarize, we want a real tag management ( for exemple a special menu same as date filter but with autofill function etc) in conjunction with autotag.To fulfill the request smart folder based on Manuel tag would be a must :)))))

We do not want just autotag and a poor tag management (No autofill, no search offline etc etc) just because we are part of another audience.

Is someone (Gilles in instance :) ) can forward our wishes in Adobe dev' team ?

A roadmap is even too much to ask, so I don't excpect any change of mindset, at least as long as the cash is flowing. Is it aslo a deliberate decision NOT to tell what the plans are ("we know it better") or does it mean there is no roadmap at all (which I strongly doubt!) ?I don't want to be of bad omen, but if/when a competitor comes out with a comparable product, many people will grab for popcorn and watch :)

Antoine,Like most users in this forum you think that answering your questions or not is only the result of a marketing (business) choice.Did you know that it's legal obligation for big companies under the rules of the Stock Exchange market not to give misleading information to shareholders? Suppose you are woking for one such company and responsible for answering publicly to the customers: I bet you'll be severely trained about what you are allowed to say or not. It's even true for people outside Adobe which can get pieces of information under NDA (non-disclosure agreement). There are hundreds of posts here and in other Adobe forums to confirm that it's useless to ask precisely when the ACR version for your newly bought DSLR raw version will be ready. You have to wait until it's really ready.

Now, betwen us, we do know that, as we say in French:

"Un train peut en cacher un autre"

"Inutile de jouer la mouche du coche."

"Plus un singe monte au cocotier..."

﻿Just joking, nothing personal. In this forum it's important to add your opinion and vote for useful suggestions; more users should do it. Don't you feel that some users in this forum have a tendency to use it as their personal blog?

Antonine, I think you should create your own thread where you can discuss development policy to your heart's content. This one IMHO should stay on track of the single issue of keywords not synchronizing!

Michel, I totally understand the legal obligations. But I'm not convinced a roadmap cannot be communicated for those reasons. Many camera manufacturers, for example, communicate on their lens roadmap. How is that different? Why could a software company nota roadmap?

Karl, as there is no other explanation as "this is technically impossible" or "this is by design"; don't blame us for speculation about reason behind those explanations.

Furthermore, maybe the number of replies to this thread will change the "answered" status of this thread.

Antoine,The general roadmap is disclosed in official statements that everybody can read and comment. My quote about "a train possibly hiding another"means that legal obligations may be handy to hide marketing preferences or decisions...I agree with Karl Günter that it would be better to discuss the matter in another discussion. However, your question is not only why Adobe does not communicate better, it's about the future of the CC and Classic versions and a critical issue in the present stage: sharing keywords.To be blunt, Adobe is not hiding anything. They are ready to change direction depending on many factors, including the ability of their teams to solve the keywords aspect. The roadmap probably has several options. Nobody will comment about this prematurely, especially in this technical forum.

If we stay on the keywords topic, I am very interested even though I don't user either LR version (only Elements) for my personal needs, Adobe gives me the suscription only to help Elements users to compare and choose the best solution. Today, there is no possible direct connection between Elements and Photoshop CC. You need to convert catalogs via the Classic version. You can't sync your catalogs, you can't use PSE as an external editor. The 1TB subscription offer for CC would seem interesting, but syncing and organizing features of the organizer are missing.

What is striking is that the current version of the organizer already offers user friendly and advanced features both in text search or visual recognition. You can create a visual multicriteria search combining keywords, people, places, albums, substrings in captions and much more. Just like a Google search. And its new smart tagging to search by any work like 'tree', 'automn', 'guitar'... those are features people are expecting to be still faster within a Cloud service than locally in a 'consumer grade' app like PSE.

My personal opinion is that the final course followed by Adobe will highly depend on the ability to solve the technical keywords syncing issues discussed here. They may have a 'Plan B'.