The demonization of China

And to think this is the same country that is just waiting to pay us above market rates for tar sands gunk, go figure.

Spare a moment to consider the effects of sharing your opinions in China itself. Your sanctimonious moaning about Canada as the Eeevil Empire misses the salient fact that you can moan here to your heart's content without the threat of joining a million odd Uyghers in a 're-education' camp.

You use all the benefits of Western civilisation to bemoan its perceived failure. China weaponises globalisation in order to extend its totalitarian reach and you support it.

Pure ignorant comment! Straight back to spreading BS about communist China to prop up the imperialist western regimes.

You must be one of those Imperialist China tools that condemn any criticism of The Party or its insidious weaponisation of globalisation. Are you the obnoxious Chinese ambassador by chance?

I notice that you decry China and want the RCMP to forcefully remove indigenous people from their territories so the oil and gas corporations can plunder what remains of their homeland. Your concern for the Uyghurs is belied by your hatred of all aboriginal protestors and advocates.

Martin everyone once in a while you go all nasty on us . So in keeping with your mood today, fuck off you fascist sycophant.

What makes you guys think Chinese peoples are not allowed to voice their opinions?

The fact that the Chinese government routinely scrubs social media of any references to things they don't like people to talk about, including Tiananmen Square, or Winnie the Pooh.

Is this honestly the first you've heard of this??

Do you have a WeChat account? Log in and call Xi a "Side Show Circus Freak" and let us know if anything comes of it.

I remember Michael Moriarity saying something along the lines about the Great fire wall of China blocking all kinds of shit. When I was in China last fall, I regularly read rabble articles. So much for icm bullshit hey?

I’m actually a little disappointed, ridiculing someone’s appearance is really in bad taste and would have some merit in being censored.

I remember you debating with another poster hear before for calling Rob Ford a pig. You really didn’t like that other poster doing that. And I actually agree! It’s in bad taste to ridicule someone appearance.

I remember Michael Moriarity saying something along the lines about the Great fire wall of China blocking all kinds of shit. When I was in China last fall, I regularly read rabble articles. So much for icm bullshit hey?

Well, I, a resident of Korea, can read English-language articles from, say, Canada, proclaiming that the DPRK is a wonderful place and Kim Jong Un the greatest leader in the world. Doesn't change the fact that someone starting a pro-DPRK website in South Korea, written in Korean, is likely going to have his site blocked by the authorities, and his personage subject to state investigation. Even English-language sites written by pro-DPRK people in Japan sometimes get blocked here.

But even if you have no wish to, personally, would you agree that a Chinese citizen should have the right to if they wish to? You claim that right here in Canada, and seem to enjoy insulting and ridiculing our own PM -- surely you don't think that a right that you take delight in should only be for non-Chinese people?

Quote:

Pornography is illegal in China and a lot of these bs scare stories stem from that. Hence fb and youtube not being allowed

Add to that the National Post, the Toronto Star, and Huffington Post, among other pornography sites. Can't be too careful about that porn!

Since about the same time as you have been posting for CSIS. You seldom have anything to add to a thread except a cheap shot that is personal and unrelated to any topic. Of course only left of social democratic posters get your "special" treatment. You and Magoo do you have the same paymaster?

I have rebuttals to much of what WWWTT is saying, but I also know that using some of the examples I have from my experiences or others may come at some cost. He’s not worth it.

But I have to ask - Do you actually find his assertions that there is no censorship in China or that the Hong Kong protests aren’t happening (or the protestors aren’t protesting the thing they say they are) credible?

PS - It’s not about being left of social democracy that I have an issue with. It’s when somebody pisses on my leg and tells me it’s raining.

I source and fact check for a living. We have some posters on this board who make some pretty wild claims, and WWWTT is one of them. If you’re okay with the aroma of horseshit, more power to you, but I’m disinclined to join you in that.

And to think this is the same country that is just waiting to pay us above market rates for tar sands gunk, go figure.

Spare a moment to consider the effects of sharing your opinions in China itself. Your sanctimonious moaning about Canada as the Eeevil Empire misses the salient fact that you can moan here to your heart's content without the threat of joining a million odd Uyghers in a 're-education' camp.

You use all the benefits of Western civilisation to bemoan its perceived failure. China weaponises globalisation in order to extend its totalitarian reach and you support it.

Pure ignorant comment! Straight back to spreading BS about communist China to prop up the imperialist western regimes.

You must be one of those Imperialist China tools that condemn any criticism of The Party or its insidious weaponisation of globalisation. Are you the obnoxious Chinese ambassador by chance?

I notice that you decry China and want the RCMP to forcefully remove indigenous people from their territories so the oil and gas corporations can plunder what remains of their homeland. Your concern for the Uyghurs is belied by your hatred of all aboriginal protestors and advocates.

Martin everyone once in a while you go all nasty on us . So in keeping with your mood today, fuck off you fascist sycophant.

I notice you make up your quibbles on the go without much regard for accuracy. Is this a function of ideology or are you unable to relate to the reality of the world around you?

I realize that there is a certain shock when self-righteousness runs into reality but is the apoplectic fury worth the price. Oscar Wilde once said: "A cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".

If I may, I suggest that the self-righteous know the answer to everything but the cost of nothing because their concern only extends to the half of the equation that supports righteousness while ignoring the half that requires assuming responsibility for how their decisions affect others .

The Chinese state is a totalitarian nightmare that not only has no concept of human rights but a disregard for human life itself.

I'm not nasty, I'm honest - you should try it sometime - very liberating.

Probably would have been better to say something like "Gee, WWWTT, have you considered hiring yourself out to the 50 Cent Army? Your material is just the kind of stuff they're looking for." Which would have indicated his posts are pretty much what you'd expect from a paid spammer, without actually making claims that he is one.

Re 150,000 on the streets in Hong Kong - more like a million people, 1/7th of the population. The media (icm if you like) is systematicaly playing down the numbers and significance of these protests. Autonomists in Hong Kong are being demonized.

Probably would have been better to say something like "Gee, WWWTT, have you considered hiring yourself out to the 50 Cent Army? Your material is just the kind of stuff they're looking for." Which would have indicated his posts are pretty much what you'd expect from a paid spammer, without actually making claims that he is one.

A paid spammer or an operative of a foreign government? The new normal is a reality that foreign governments create these destabilizing operations to influence Western policy decisions in their favour.

Social media is only one facet among many in the new reality challenging the world order.

Probably would have been better to say something like "Gee, WWWTT, have you considered hiring yourself out to the 50 Cent Army? Your material is just the kind of stuff they're looking for." Which would have indicated his posts are pretty much what you'd expect from a paid spammer, without actually making claims that he is one.

You’re right, I should have considered the death of irony before posting. However, it does bear repeating that his posts are not be much different from what you would expect from that source.

Probably would have been better to say something like "Gee, WWWTT, have you considered hiring yourself out to the 50 Cent Army? Your material is just the kind of stuff they're looking for." Which would have indicated his posts are pretty much what you'd expect from a paid spammer, without actually making claims that he is one.

A paid spammer or an operative of a foreign government? The new normal is a reality that foreign governments create these destabilizing operations to influence Western policy decisions in their favour.

Sure, and western governments, and indeed governments all over the place, do the same thing.

The point is, you can't prove if someone is actually in the pay of a foreign government, or if, as usually seems more likely, they're just parroting the talking-points of said government 'cuz that's the only way they know how to debate. So it's best just to draw attention to their parroting, and leave everypme else free to draw their own conclusions about motivation.

I have rebuttals to much of what WWWTT is saying, but I also know that using some of the examples I have from my experiences or others may come at some cost. He’s not worth it.

But I have to ask - Do you actually find his assertions that there is no censorship in China or that the Hong Kong protests aren’t happening (or the protestors aren’t protesting the thing they say they are) credible?

Never claimed that there's no censorship in China. In fact, I stated that pornography is illegal! This suggests that censorship in communist China is more strict severe. But you either ignore or missed that part. Either way, it's convenient for your rant.

Neither am I denying protests occuring in Hong Kong.

I remember some protests there a few years ago (not sure how long ago, but it was the last wave that made headlines in the west). And I know for a fact from several people in ShenZhen and my wife that most of those protesters where furious over immigrants from the mainland working for lower wages. Not what the western ICM was reporting! I'm suggesting that this issue of immigrants from the mainland working for lower wages is continuing, and probably needs to be addressed.

Do you really believe I'm making this up???

And as a side note, notice that people from Macao, are not protesting? When I first visited 澳门 in 2010 the predominant dialect was Cantonese 广东话 followed by Mandarin 普通话 English then Portuguese. The last time I was In Macao, Mandarin was clearly the dominant dialect! And mainland immigrants were clearly visible everywhere! Working everywhere! Beijing even gave the Macao regional government extra land to build on because Macao is very small and expensive (most expensive city to live in the world) and has no room to expand.

I believe the relationship between the Portuguese and Chinese politicians after the carnation revolution became very close, so tensions and distrust between the Macanees and mainlanders washed away long ago.

What makes you guys think Chinese peoples are not allowed to voice their opinions? If the Chinese people’s do not voice their concerns about any random issue does not mean that they are being suppressed, it means that such an issue is probably not much of a concern for most.

So first there's a denial that there's any problem at all.

The other point is that the icm overrates overvalues freedom of speech in the west by making the false claim that freedom of speech is not allowed in some countries. But other rights such as the right to work and the right to rest is conveniently pried right of the picture.

Then we move on to freedom of speech not being it's all cracked up to be anyway, possibly even an invention of the west, so it's okay there's suppression that isn't happening.

Pornography is illegal in China and a lot of these bs scare stories stem from that. Hence fb and youtube not being allowed

And now we've got suppression, but it's for everyone's own good and probably for the best - and it's the pornographers' fault, so who'd want to side with them?

Neither am I denying protests occuring in Hong Kong.

I remember some protests there a few years ago (not sure how long ago, but it was the last wave that made headlines in the west). And I know for a fact from several people in ShenZhen and my wife that most of those protesters where furious over immigrants from the mainland working for lower wages. Not what the western ICM was reporting! I'm suggesting that this issue of immigrants from the mainland working for lower wages is continuing, and probably needs to be addressed.

Do you really believe I'm making this up???

That people taking to the streets to protest mainlanders, not the issue that the protesters are actually saying they're protesting? Yes, I do think you're making that up. Because anything that would be remotely negative about the PRC government cannot just be what it is when it comes to your posts. Deflect, move goal posts, contradict, invent.

That link you provided North Report is loaded with icm garbage! Here’s a couple gems.

Websites of The Washington Post and the Guardian appear to now be blocked in China

Fantastic, the Washington post and the guardian are getting blocked! Is there anyone brave enough want to explain why banning a couple wide mouth ICM broadcasters is a bad thing? Canada should be banning these two ICM players as well. Unfortunately, Canada and the ICM have something in common, same owners.

Heres another freekin joke comment

Outlets such as Bloomberg, the New York Times, Reuters and the Wall Street Journal have been blocked for years.

Ya I’m sure the Chinese people are crying because the New York Times is blocked. Who cares?

And another

International business lobbies, media freedom groups and Western government officials — including U.S. trade negotiators — say the Great Firewall amounts to not only a restriction on speech but also fair practice.

I guess these imperialists that have raped millions and doomed even more into a lifetime of slavery and misery are now so ridilled with guilt for their crimes, they decided to help out the Chinese people’s by exposing their government. Thanks for helping us out big business, give yourselves a big pat on the back, you deserve it!

And another

The extensive censorship software now blocks more than 10,000 Web domains and is powered by artificial intelligence algorithms that tirelessly sharpen its ability to sniff out VPNs.

How much you want to bet 8,000 of those site are porno sites?

And finally a comment that actually makes sense

Chinese authorities have said their censorship practices are a matter of the country’s “Internet sovereignty” and not negotiable with foreign governments.

When is Canada going to do something like this to protect its sovereignty?

Blocking nearly all media sources that aren’t controlled by your government is not a positive, whether you agree with their opinion pages or not. This is a hallmark of an authoritarian state.

Its not just pornography that’s blocked. That claim is utterly absurd and you’ve clearly pulled it out of your ass - which is why I suspect 3/4 of what you post is either fantasy or purposeful misinformation.

Thats funny, you claim I’m making shit up, and at the same time write the Chinese government blocks almost all news sources they don’t control? Last year I regularly visited rabble babble when I was in China. Also other western news sites.

Upthread I posted a link debunking Mr Magoo’s bs ICM claim that Winnie the Pooh’s is censored in China.

Lots of bs floating around about the “evil” Chinese communist government

You just listed off a large number of news sites. Rabble is more opinion than news, is very small and so far hasn’t had a lot to say about China. I guarantee that if they were more critical, you’d see less.

So a very high proportion of these journalistic outlets are banned. My comment still stands. This is authoritarian playbook stuff - anybody who publishes anything negative is banned. Keep your population isolated. Control the message. Dampen dissent.

"...Once again, Democratic Party figures such as Martin Lee are prominent in the current protests against the extradition law. They are aligned with sections of Hong Kong's corporate elites that have opposed the legislation that could undermine the courts and Hong Kong's attractiveness as a base for investment in China. Lee and his allies are also promoting the dangerous illusion that the United States can be entrusted to fight for democratic rights in Hong Kong.

Last month Lee led a delegation to Washington which met with, among others, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo as well as the US Congressional Executive Commission on China. The Trump administration has not the slightest concern for 'human rights' in Hong Kong or anywhere else for that matter, but will seek to exploit the movement as part of its escalating confrontation and war drive against Beijing.

Hong Kong is one of the most socially polarised cities in the world and is becoming more unequal every year. The economy is dominated by a handful of multi-billionaires, while the majority of the population struggle even to put a roof over their heads..."

The issue of whether Hong Kongers are biased against mainlanders is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether China should be able to extradite people from Hong Kong. Unless anybody thinks Canada should respond to domestic Islamophobia by signing an extradition treaty with Saudi Arabia and returning Rahaf Mohammed.

The issue of whether Hong Kongers are biased against mainlanders is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether China should be able to extradite people from Hong Kong. Unless anybody thinks Canada should respond to domestic Islamophobia by signing an extradition treaty with Saudi Arabia and returning Rahaf Mohammed.

No that’s not the point I’m making. The people in Hong Kong protesting (what percentage I’m not sure but it’s there) are driven by xenophobia against mainlanders.

The proposed extradition laws from what I have read so far have something to do with a Taiwanese murdering a Hong Kong woman.

The murder you reference is being used as a rationale for the new law. That law leaves the door open for extradition from Hong Kong to mainland China. This means political dissenters who are protected under current laws can be charged and extradited for speaking out.

The protests are not about xenophobia. The protesters have been very clear what they’re protesting.

PS - It’s not about being left of social democracy that I have an issue with. It’s when somebody pisses on my leg and tells me it’s raining.

I source and fact check for a living. We have some posters on this board who make some pretty wild claims, and WWWTT is one of them. If you’re okay with the aroma of horseshit, more power to you, but I’m disinclined to join you in that.

I find all your source checking to be very imperial. I am not really enamored of the aroma around here sometimes which is why a commented on your steaming pile of shit post.

But I have to ask - Do you actually find his assertions that there is no censorship in China or that the Hong Kong protests aren’t happening (or the protestors aren’t protesting the thing they say they are) credible?

I didn't read him saying any of that. You are reading into other peoples posts.

But I have to ask - Do you actually find his assertions that there is no censorship in China or that the Hong Kong protests aren’t happening (or the protestors aren’t protesting the thing they say they are) credible?

I didn't read him saying any of that. You are reading into other peoples posts.

I really don't want to get into this conversation, but I read WWWTT as saying about the same things as Timebandit suggests he did. In general I read him as minimizing any possible wrongdoing by the Chinese Communist Party, to what I think is an unreasonable degree.

Okay, what about the assertion that a million or so Hong Kong residents are protesting out of xenophobia and not the introduction of an extradition law like they say they are? This is credible to you?

“Imperial” is an epithet that gets thrown around a lot without much substance behind it. What it means is you don’t like this narrative. Sorry the facts -so far as we can determine - aren’t to your satisfaction, krop. But you know damn well he’s making this nonsense up, and you’re ignoring a bunch of what’s passed since to make your case.

Strangely enough this is a Hong Kong Legislative Council initiative presented by Chief Executive Carrie Lam. Se was elected wasn't she? Please do not start a lecture on how the electoral process is rigged to keep the dominant powers in power. We all know it but frankly WTF do you think we have in Canada? You love the facade and refuse to look ar the real politic. I can ask the Duck or any other search engine anything I want about the world and it will regurgitate page after page of Western biased fake news coverage. We have the freedom to consume anything the corporate world will produce including its false narratives that are leading to the destruction of the planet.

This is a multi-faceted issue not a knee jerk democracy issue. It would appear to me that the people have spoken but the question is how do you deal with a real problem of criminals committing crimes that we in Canada extradite people for all the time but because it is Taiwan it can't be done. Denying there is no problem at all is imperialist propaganda ignoring the people in the streets is tyranny.

The bill was introduced following a case last year when a local man allegedly killed his pregnant girlfriend while on holiday in Taiwan, but could not be extradited as Taipei and Hong Kong do not share an extradition agreement.

The bill, however, has become a diplomatic quagmire as Hong Kong and Beijing both consider Taiwan, a self-ruling island, to be part of greater China.

Taiwanese officials have spoken out against the agreement, which some fear could be used to coerce it into acknowledging Beijing's sovereignty, DPA news agency reported citing the South China Morning Post.

So what did you think of the Chinese leader who said he was going to work on ensuring that Scheer doesn't get elected in October. Oops my bad that was an American defender of democracy talking about a socialist Brit.

Kropotkin, Lam was elected, but half the legislative positions in Hong Kong are appointed by the PRC. You’re ignoring or maybe just don’t know some of the larger context and pressures that come into play.

I was at an umbrella protest site in Hong Kong. I’ve actually talked to people who live there. What WWWTT is claiming about that protest and this one misrepresents both - and in a way you’d condemn if it came from a source you’re less inclined to sympathize with.

Timebandit you started this shit storm by saying he worked for the 50 Cent Army not by debating his points which you claim to be able to demolish in a heart beat except it would be beneath you. Indeed that attitude is fairly common place on this board. I read crap here all the time that is poorly worded and ill thought out. I like WWWTT posts because he isn't stuck in the narrow paradigm of many of our posters.