Argentina promises more public harassment on Falklands: “you wait and see”

Argentine ambassador in London Alicia Castro who on Monday surprised and embarrassed (‘ambushed’, according to the UK media) Foreign Secretary William Hague asking him at a public meeting on talks on the disputed Falkland Islands future, has promised more of the same stuff.

Ambassador Alicia Castro; “are you ready for dialogue?”

Foreign Secretary William Hague: “You can count on us, always, to stand by self determination”

According to a report from The Daily Telegraph with great echo in the Argentine media, the incident took place during the launching by Foreign Secretary Hague of Britain’s annual world review of human rights at a ceremony attended by diplomats, journalists and rights activists in the opulent surroundings of Lancaster House in London.

”Seeing that the United Nations and the international community and a large group of Nobel Prize winners urge both countries to (start) negotiations in order to find a pacific and permanent resolution, my question is: Are you ready for dialogue? Are we going to give peace a chance? she asked as Hague took questions from the audience.

A flustered Mr Hague, sensing that Ms Castro was about to make a long statement, interrupted her several times, pressing her to ask a question before cutting her short with: Thank you. That's enough. Stop.

Following the presentation and asked by the media if she intended to make a habit of appearing at Hague's public events to ask him about the Falklands, Castro laughed and said: You wait and see.

The incident continued with Hague answering Ambassador Castro that self-determination is a basic political right of the people of the Falkland Islands ... You can count on us always, permanently, to stand by that right.

Ambassador Castro later said Foreign Secretary Hague had not answered her question.

You cannot say that you are so good at human rights and democracy if you are not open for dialogue, she said.

Self-determination did not apply to the Falkland islanders, she said. Self-determination is not a right that every country has or every population has. A province in my country cannot decide if they want to belong to China, she said.

Ms Castro, formerly Argentina's ambassador to Venezuela, took up her post in London in March, just as tensions escalated between Britain and Argentina 30 years after the Argentine invasion of the Falkland Islands that led to the 74 days South Atlantic conflict, which ended with the unconditional surrender of the Argentine forces to a Task Force sent by then PM Margaret Thatcher to recover them.

Ms Castro's appointment to a post left vacant since 2008 is part of a drive by Buenos Aires to push the Falklands issue back up the international agenda. President Cristina Fernandez has launched a wide-ranging diplomatic offensive to assert Argentina's claims to the Islands, accusing Britain of maintaining colonial enclaves” and calling on London to open sovereignty talks.

Britain that looks after foreign affairs and defense of the self-governing, self sufficient Islands has always stated that it will agree to talks only if the 3.000 Islanders want them – something they have repeatedly shown no sign of doing.

Ms Castro met a junior British foreign minister, Jeremy Browne, last week and handed over notes requesting talks with Britain on air links with the Falklands and cooperation on South Atlantic fisheries.

The Falkland Islands elected members of the Legislative Assembly have said that they are very happy with the current commercial air link through Chile served by Lan Chile once a week, but are willing to consider cooperation in fisheries.

The government of Cristina Fernandez wants the air links to the Falklands from Buenos Aires and with the flag carrier Aerolineas Argentinas, which Islanders refuse point blank, not only because of the war, but also given very non commendable experiences such as the Argentine/UK 1971/72 communications agreement.

However regarding fisheries cooperation the government of the Falklands has long requested the resumption of the agreed scientific exchanges and joint cruises which were dropped unilaterally by the government of President Nestor Kirchner.

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I bet she gets 'frozen out' of the diplomatic circle pretty quick. The British are good at that.
How come she was a 'trolly dolly'.She is much too ugly for that. I thought Argie women were supposed to be good looking.

Do Argentine's really believe that pestering will be the route to success? I have no idea if it works in Latin culture but when an Anglo Saxon has a dog yapping at his heels he eventually kicks it. No doggy treats will be on offer.

”Self-determination did not apply to the Falkland islanders, she said. ”Self-determination is not a right that every country has or every population has. A province in my country cannot decide if they want to belong to China,“ she said.

A rather typical illogical argument from an Argentine politician.

This brings a lot of shame on Argentina when their ambassadors are lowered to the level of heckling foreign governments, its all rather pathetic.

As pointed out all that will happen now is she will be banned from any further events, if isolation was her aim, she's achieved it.

1.The receiving State may at any time and without having to explain its decision, notify the sending State that the head of the mission or any member of the diplomatic staff of the mission is persona non grata or that any other member of the staff of the mission is not acceptable. In any such case, the sending State shall, as appropriate, either recall the person concerned or terminate his functions with the mission. A person may be declared non grata or not acceptable before arriving in the territory of the receiving State. 

If cheap nuisance making like ambush diplomacy is what the UK can expect then she will either be PNG-ed (probably with a request to send a proper diplomat rather than a political appointee, especially as the UK can PNG people before they even leave Argentina) or she will be left in post but wouldn't get invited to the opening of a paper bag, never mind any official functions.

Looking at the posting times it seems perfectly reasonable times for UK posters. I realise Argentines do not like to rise early but it is perfectly usual here. Also, I have quite a few friends in Argentina and Chile that post at 1 or 2 am their time.

@Max
That doesn't matter, friend, I'm in Denmark, time being 10:43, but as we all make personal statements (some of us personal offences as statements), it really doesn't matter where we are in the world...

I wouldn't want to get into a heckling match with Hague. Whatever else you think about him, he is one of the most astute debaters in the world arena.

I'm quite intrigued to find out now how we are expected to enter into dialogue with the changing of the constitution. Before hand this was an open avenue as the Argentinean constitution did not have sovereignty enshrined. Now that is does, it allows no room for negotiation unless the Argentinean government is willing to break the constitution to allow for shared sovereignty. Can someone answer how negotiation is supposed to take place (as with negotiation, you must be willing to move from your position).

You do know that the UK only uses GMT for half the year, we've been on British Summer Time (BST=GMT+1) for about a month or so.
So, 06:32 GMT is actually half past seven in the morning, which if you start work at nine is a reasonable time.

Ms Castro should look up the meaning of the word Diplomat before attending any more public functions.She has made a laughing stock of her country and has embarrassed herself.

Are the British ready for dialogue? Yes, the British are always open for dialogue when the outcome of the discussion is not pre-determined by the constitution of one of the parties to that dialogue. Otherwise it becomes a monologue.
Are we willing to give peace a chance? Yes- the Falkland Islands are just about the most peaceful place on Earth. It's only the noisy neighbours who are trying to disturb that peace and it is only their threats and past and present agitation that causes any defensive capability to be placed there. (Don't forget why the alleged 'militarisation' is there in the first place- before 1982 there was a small Royal Marines garrison and a few FIDF volunteers. The Argentine action was the cause of placing defence forces in the South Atlantic and it still is).

@32 It's true though, look at USA :)
Regarding the Malvinas, if you quote the whole sentance, you'd realize why she thinks it doen't apply. But as usual, you take things out of their context and make it your own truth...

@31
Harassment? To want to start a dialogue based on peace? I can understand that is harassment for an invasive nation though....

@35 The rest of the sentence reads A province in my country cannot decide if they want to belong to China
We're not talking about a province in Argentina, we're talking about a self-governing territory being annexed against it's wishes (see Argentinian constitution).

Believe me, he is formidable but this is not the right forum. Hague knows that and knows that to issue a sharp cutting put down would also not be appropriate in this situation. There is a forum for this kind of thing and effectively heckling a foreign minister is not appropriate for a diplomat. In fact, other diplomats have incurred censure for much less.

With regards to harassment, yes, one could argue that in the normal course of action this is not harassment; however, she is a diplomat and is the representative of her country. Under diplomatic rules, this is a form of harassment as she has not gone through the appropriate channels. Do you see that the standards expected from a diplomat are higher than your average person? This is not an Anglo-centric thing, it is convention worldwide.

@38 Ni Sir, a sharp cutting put down is just another sign of British arrogance, and a sad excuse in order to not answer a fully valid question.
I know your government likes to discuss hot issues behind their voters backs, and lie to them if need be (Iraq, for example), and that grassroot-democracy is a word they don't appreciate. Appropiate channels means just that, a forum where they can say things their voters are not supposed to hear.

It would appear this woman is living up to what was expected of her. Rather than act like a proper dipolmat she has set her stall out as a somewhat stupid heckler. Her comments are extemely laughable and the repercussions will follow.
William Hague is a respected politician on both sides of the house and a formidable opponent.
Censure of this idiotic woman is sure to follow.

I saw a clip of this 'confrontation ' on La Nacion and this sweet little Hispanic voice is twittering on and Hague looks as though he is about to pee himself laughing until he has had enough and then Stop !

“a “sharp cutting put down” is just another sign of British arrogance.”

No it isn't it is what people do when debating. I saw Cristina do something very similar in Congress when someone heckled her and shouted “Chavista” at her. However, this wasn't a debate and so Hague is not going to resort to those tactics.

I know your government likes to discuss hot issues behind their voters backs, and lie to them if need be

I don't need to mention the lying about inflation figures here as it would seem that your government is guilty of exactly the same thing that you are accusing my government of. And before you say that they are different, the concept of barefaced lying is exactly the same.

Appropriate channels” means just that, a forum where they can say things their voters are not supposed to hear.

No it doesn't, as I said, she is a diplomat and needs to respect diplomatic custom. As I also said, this is not Anglo-centric, it is global. Any diplomat in Argentina would be expected to behave according to this custom. If she wants to she can relinquish her role as a diplomat and go to press conferences and heckle all she wants to, I am fine with this but as a diplomat she should respect custom. Our diplomats are expected to behave in a certain way in your country and they do. They are expected to show respect for your ministers and your institutions and they do. Why it is one rule for the Argentinean diplomat in the UK and a different rule for every other diplomat worldwide?

#46
Diplomats are expected to act in a dignified way and in accordance with high standards of personal behaviour, politeness etc. Heckling is NOT diplomatic behaviour. When diplomats fail to follow these unwritten rules, they make themselves objects of derision and this always reflects badly on the country they represent. Just think of Kruschev banging his shoe on the table at the UN. Now I know he was not a diplomat, but the same principle applies.

As stated it is convention and a convention by which every other country abides. I am surprised that you think this is perfectly fine as most Argentineans I know have exemplary manners and pride themselves on this fact. Yes, these are unwritten rules but you know that, as a diplomat, it isn't correct to behave in this way; to pretend otherwise is just fooling yourself. If it was my diplomat heckling a minister of yours in BA I would be embarrassed. Embarrassed that my diplomat doesn't know how to behave in accordance with the high office to which he/she has been appointed and also because, in the eyes of others, my diplomat represents my country and, vicariously, me. I wouldn't want someone seeing this and saying that diplomats from Argentina are encouraged to behave like pikeys when appointed to their diplomatic post. If you do and you are comfortable that your government is also happy for them to behave in this way then fine, it's your call. No doubt if she continues to act in this way and the British government ask for her to be replaced, Cristina will be up in arms saying that she has done nothing wrong.

the former air hostess Alicia Castro become in Ambassador ( 1st to the Dictator Chavez´Court and now to the UK) only did a lacklustre performance to the Argentine media with the usual style that the chauvinist & populist polititians ( the 95 % of the whole Argentine polititian spectrum ) ...But with her acttitude surely she got the pressidentinal & Campora´s members friendliness!

Our governments are representing the people, that is the very reason we are nationalising our natural resources, increasing our common wealth and having a go at illiteracy and poverty, the REASON there is little hope (for you) is that you fail to understand this fact :)

@57
Well, disagreeing is not always a bad thing, but I can't understand is people that are full of manners when they talk, full of manners in the public, are the same people that invades a country and steals its natural resources and dignity. If you ask me, instead of having your manners on your lips and out, try having them on your lips and in...

To be honest Greek, I don't feel anyone needs to do anything when they are just using words since they have done such a superb job of disgracing themselves at just about every level on the world stage.

This heckling is just another embarrassment to Argentina, pretending to be someone else, breaking diplomatic code and acting in a unbecoming manner of an ambassador shows how low Argentina has gone.

Argentina is rapidly becoming the next Venezuela.

I do actually and truthfully think it is a shame though, if Argentina had a modern progressive government it could become very rich indeed with its abundance of natural resources and educated people. Instead it has rampant inflation, massive internal problems and trade problems and is slipping into the abyss.

”You cannot say that you are so good at human rights and democracy if you are not open for dialogue,“ she said.
What rot! all the dialogue she is interested in is the stuff that takes away their rights and democracy.

I have to say that it is funny in its own way. I can imagine the conversation that Cristina had with Castro before she was posted.

CFK: Look, we were expecting the brits to have capitulated by now but things don't seem to be going to plan.
Castro: Right, ok then, what do you think we should do.
CFK: Well, I'm going to send you around, a little like that guy in Trigger Happy TV, and you're going to turn up in public places make statements and see he they capitulate that way. If we make loads of noise then they are bound to give them up.
Casto: OK, so we sort of do what we've already been doing but wit a surprise element of slap-stick.
CFK: Brilliant, you've got it.
Maximo: Oh, and if you get the chance, try and call him a poo-head, that will really upset him...They won't know what has hit them

Arg Amb Castro could be PNG'ed but might be also useful to mobilize veterans and Falkland Islands clubs resident in London to show up wherever HE Castro takes her anti-Falklands dog and pony show and do a little street-theatre improvisation challenging her version of events?

This is the same reason RGs are blacklisted from US State and Prez. They conduct their diplomacy like high school children and don't know when to shut up.

If she becomes a problem UK can always throw her out.

When we throw out diplomats here, the secret service goes to the Ambassadors house at 2-3am let's t each family member pack 1 bag and puts them on a plane. It is embarrassing for them and hilarious for us.

To be honest, I think it may be advantageous to leave her where she is rather than send her home after how inept she obviously is at her job.

The more Argentina's government embarrasses itself the easier the job at diplomatically protecting the Falkland Island's. The UK holds all of the power but still needs a rearguard action has to take place when Argentina seeks to attack the UK/Falklands using diplomacy.

@73 This lady clearly knows no embarrassment. Otherwise she'd have the mental acuity to know that peaceful harassment is oxymoron. Clearly they've just offered up some dead-beat to make a nuisance of herself to get into the papers.

Oi! You up there, on the rostrum, yes, you, the bloke with the bald head; you're a Foreign Secretary aren't you? When are you going to answer my bleedin' diplomatic questions? I'm an ambassador, I am

This is why the UK government has been so vigilant and strict about importing foreign cows into the country. Occasionally, cows infected with Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE), commonly known as mad-cow disease, end up in London making a smelly mess.

@54 Do you want to stick with that? Are you sure? You see, by definition, a diplomat is appointed by a state. And an ambassador is a government representative. So if your London ambassador isn't appointed by the state and doesn't represent the argie government, she has no place here. And could be declared PNG without a second thought!

Thought WH dealt with her quite well. She appears to be, according to the video on the nation website to be trying to make a statement rateher than asking a question. Soon put in her place though. Well done WH.

@82 I'd kind of expect a good excuse for a politician. But it's argtardia, so I'd expect someone mercurial or bipolar with absolutely no social skills, a complete disregard for decorum or diplomacy, and hypocritical illogic just flowing out of their mouths like foam from a rabid dog.

Timmerman is worse, but they are all stupid and arrogant. They think themselves as funny and productive. You can see the same thing here on the boards ridiculously stupid people who think they are smart.

#87 Thanks for posting the link.
I was just joking about her being a mad cow, but perhaps she has been infected by the disease after-all. How embarrassing for any country to have someone like that to be appointed to the Court of St. James.

Flight Attendant: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah on and on and on and on and on and on.
WH: Self determination is a basic political right of the people of the falkland islands. And the UK will always stand by that right. It is their right under the UN Charter. And so , the UK is very much committed to that right. You can count on us, always, permanently to stand by that right”

I cannot see what's wrong with any of that. He even stated that it's their right under the UN charter, which again, is quite right.

”Seeing that the United Nations and the international community and a large group of Nobel prize winners urge both countries to (start) negotiations in order to find a pacific and permanent resolution, my question is: Are you ready for dialogue? Are we going to give peace a chance?“ she asked as Hague took questions from the audience.

A flustered Hague attempted to interrupt her several times, before cutting her off with ”Thank you. That's enough. Stop.” Ohh poor baby :-)))

So a retired trolley dolly of definite chav political persuasions feels it is appropriate to heckle in a serious meeting?

And, of course, conveniently omits to mention who it was that started a war in 1982 and who it was that closed down any possibility of a meaningful dialogue by inserting a ridiculous clause into their constitution.

To be honest and on reflection I'm now starting to warm to this sort of thing from Argentina. Every time one of their politicians stands up in an international forum you cant wait too hear what they have to say.

Fascinating stuff.

Can you imagine them in the UN warbling on about the Falklands every day of the week? It'll be like children pestering their parents give me that toy, give me that toy, give me that toy, give me that toy.

What the watching world is making of all of this children trying to act like politicians is anyone's guess.

Argentina promises to embarrass itself further on the world stage over the Falklands.

Nice ring to it.

This incident will have done huge damage to Argentina's international image, and many countries around the world will watching their RG ambassador closely, no doubt to boot them out at the first sign of trouble.

Argentina has shown that it has nothing but contempt for international law, diplomacy and good old fashioned common sense.

I just noticed ipredict is offering a contract for Alicia Castro being declared persona non grata with the UK citing issues related to the Falklands before 1/6/2013. Last trade was $0.1775 for a $1 return on the event occurring. I think this is an open prediction exchange that anybody can join in...if I'm wrong the numbers are still interesting.

Now I'm not a betting man...nor would I encourage anybody else to be...and let's face it betting on anybody's career can be considered distasteful. However those odds would seem fairly attractive if they were talking about 2012 let alone 2013.

This is basically saying there is only an 18% chance of her being declared persona non grata by June 2013...anyone think this is a fair estimate?

Well, why is there an ambassador in London in the first place. I've always wondered why Argentina even keeps an embassy and viceversa. There is nothing the two countries have to talk about (at the government level).

Looking back on this story now I have to admit I’m finding in funnier than I first did. I contains elements of farce which you don't normally see and I can see Cristina's hand in all of this. I started off quite keen on her and her policies. They may not work here and they are very Argentina specific but that is not the say that they are inherently bad for Argentina. I think that it is because these were the policies of Nestor and he was nothing if not a very shrew political operator. He was able to tread the line between isolationism but also keeping the international community on side enough to get what he wanted for this country.

Politically Cristina is very much lost without him (in terms of treading this line). She has fallen into the trap of surrounding herself completely with yes men and seems hell bent on policies which will actually damage her country. It seems that main qualification you need to be on her side is loyalty to the point of sycophancy and a willingness never to question her (very much like Thatcher in her last days). Her continual haranguing is also very Thatcherite and her decisions are increasingly made on the hoof rather than a part on a well thought out policy.

If it is correct that the provinces have effectively run out of US$s, and that the yield required for them to issue debt is now at prohibitive levels then we could be witnessing a spectacular political implosion in the coming months.

JAJAJAJA First the Kirshners own Argentina, now Chavez :)
You fail to realize that ALL the SA countries except of Colombia are together in this, pushing an empire from side to side, until it crumbles :) :)

Marcos / Guzzle : Watch the film again .
When Hague says  Yes ambassador , that is quite enough questions
the whole room bursts out laughing at her , a room full of journalists and the rest of the world's diplomats . She really is pitiful .
Very good theatre for you campora kids , but it does not impress the grown ups .
If this is the best you've got , God help Argentina.

Stop acting like spoilt children, blaming everyone else for your problems, and start acting like sensible grown ups. You might then find that you actually come to earn the respect of others, something you obviously yearn for.

The respect of the EU or USA means nothing to me. I actually quite serious. If we have it good, if not, well that sucks but life goes on.

The EU and USA policies are a big catalyzer of Argentina's problems, but the realization of those problems are internal policies.

I make the analogy of the dust/pollen and your allergies. The dust/pollen may be the cause of the allergy, but the realization of the symptoms is you as a person not dusting your house/bed or using an air purifier.

Only that you can't. We all live in the real world, and no country can cut itself off from outside conditions and hope to thrive. Look at the awful examples of countries which have tried this: Myanmar, North Korea, Zimbabwe spring to mind. Do you really want argentina to emulate these?

I don't want Argentina to become them, but if that is the result then at least we won't have to look far for the culprits. The reality is the USA and EU have for decades spoused nefarious policies and then you wonder why they are extremely disliked around the world.

That is not making excuses for our failings, it simply states how wrong it was to have relations with you.

Just for the record, since I said two weeks ago that sadly the British diet had come down to this. And i've been proven right.

World's largest McDonalds and SAM missiles on civilian flats' roofs. That's what the Olympics have come down to. Then you wonder why most Argies don't give a darn about such a corrupt event that pushes obesity, forces people to live like a war zone, and still doesn't PAY the athletes for being the stars of the show.

Your country is a wretched utter shambles from top to bottom. you have no idea of how to behave in front of a watching world and are an arrogant and ignorant people who has no concept of the rule of law.

It is frankly pathetic to watch your so called politicians and groups like La Campora in action.

I'm wondering how much lower your country can go? A lot further I imagine.

Why notjust face up to the fact that Argentina's future is in its own hands, and stop blaming the rest of the world? No one owes you a living, but equally no one is trying to constantly destroy you country, as you seem to believe.

@124 well, to be honest my favourite part of the whole thing was when she got out of her wobbly car and the door fell off, then she navigated the room in her big red shoes and sprayed Mr Hague with a water jet from her flower.

Look, bottom line you guys don't like when countries do not bow down and fawn at you. Which is why you hate countries like Argentina.

The EU/USA must have the adulation of the world, and be told they are the greatest invention since atmospheric oxygen. Whichever countries say f-all to that, you consider rogue.

Yet when the EU/USA do the same it is called defending democracy. No one buys it anymore, and the more you deny it the more disliked and isolated your nations are becoming in the 21st century, where European civilization is taking a back seat to Asian, Middle Eastern, etc...

As I suggested above, an imbecile is a genius when he runs an irrevelant office, which the ambassadors of the UK and ARG in each other nations are. We don't talk, we don't trade, we don't want anything to do with each other. So, heck, they could put an armadillo in the embassy.... HE would still do the job just as adequatly, since there is nothing to do.

@137 no, you said ”We send you what you deserve :)”. 'We' being argtardia, and making you being an artard.

@135 So the messaging you want to send out to the international community is that your ambassadorial staff have very very bad english and also a tendency to rant on at inappropriate moments, outlining some kind of endemic cognitive issues. That's nice.

tobias you have this ability to deflect attention from the issue at hand, either through pig ignorance or through a need to try and forget your country's main issues.

People do not dislike Argentina because you do not fawn over the Us or UK, they dislike your country, specifically its government, because your political tactics are frankly appalling.

your harassment and stupidity over the Falklands is now comical, it has gone way beyond any sort of credible campaign and organisations such as La Campora frankly sicken people, who liken your current politics to that of Nazi Germany.

you continually insult people, re-write history, deny people basic human rights and are so transparent in your childish rewriting of facts, figures and history which leave you wide open to ridicule.

the company you keep eg Iran, syria, cuba and Venezuela remind everyone of the rubbish currently trying to influence world affairs and you can expect little respect from the sane world.

You had the biggest default in history, which you refuse to repay, you have a nutter in charge of your country and your economics is rubble, with constant lies and a rehashing of your indicators such as inflation.

Cronyism and corruption are rife.

you prosecute people who dare to put forward alternative economic figures, defraud your bond holders from the correct interest they should receive on their investments and then steal private companies belonging to other countries without compensation.

We play by the rules - you dont - and you re-write your constitution to make it fit, using it as justification for your appalling politics.

You, the Argentines, are to blame for the ills that effect your country - no one else. you have no excuses.

your politicans are absolutely woeful. your Ambassador to the Uk is the latest demonstration of your utter ineptitude.

You have been sussed by every rational country around the world. In short, Argentina is a laughing stock.

@140 I'd agree on both parts. Tobias does spend most of his time trying to divert people onto other topics, but let's be fair, so do other La Campora operatives like Marcos. Secondly, their politics is laughable. They seem utterly utterly incompetent and completely mercurial to say the least.

@80 Of course you would. You're a prick! A short, droopy one.
@97 So many pricks (short, droopy ones) and c**ts (huge, slack ones) in argieland.
@113 Nothing crumbling, Guzzler, not until the Tridents land!
@116 God isn't going to help Argentina. Argieland and its occupants is from the other place.
@120 Don't look at your back. Look up.
@134 You poor Spanish feckwit.
@137 So you sent a whore. No, sorry, that's your president.
@139 Doesn't matter how you play it now. You are dead meat!

@143
We had our disagreements with Argentina yes, the papeleras mainly, and latest it was the import restrictions that (obviously) affected our nation a lot, as we are very dependent on our export to Argentina.
But Pepe went to BA, had a chat with Cristina, and Argentina made an exception for Uruguay.
We have still not sorted the issue with the papelera efficiently (i think that is what you refer to when you say the OAS), but that doesn't mean we will support british arrogance, just like our president told you :)

Guzz, do not think for one moment that the average UK citizen does not recognise the ignorance and arrogance of our government at times. We are well capable of making up our own minds and reminding our government when they get it wrong ie Iraq. They are now trying the same tactic with Iran.

In essence though I have spoken to no Uk citizen that wishes any ill will of the people of South america, in fact it is a continent that the Uk should have and should be forging better relations with.

however from my point of view some of you south americans have a huge chip on your shoulder regarding the gringos and you just cant see past it. your governments communique are littered with the words colonialists, imperialists, Pirates” and such terms and you really need to forget about it, move on and stop wallowing in your past.

your self pity is disgusting.

It is, in short, high time that the south american countries found democracy, stopped the rampant corruption and started to act like grown up, mature nations.

@141

i would hope that when they get older tobias and Marcos will look back and reflect on being paid by La Campora to hassle people on forum like this and realise how much they have let themselves down.

what they are resorting to is a form of slavery for La Campora, taking money to do their bidding.

Like you had to ask that question!!! We all know why she is a complete fruit bat. If the wind was in the right direction I bet I could have heard the laughter and cat-calls from Port Stanley. Un-intentionally she may have been a comedy riot. You know? in the ilk of Ali G. Bookings for the Edinburgh festival are bound to follow.

As for everything else. The best that can be said about it was that it was a publicity stunt that backfired. Rather than remembering the discussion on the Falklands, I think we will all be remembering the strange bag lady that almost got Wills a little flustered.

You got to give the RGs some slack, they're hungry and cold w/everyday getting a little poorer. Food went up 2.5% THIS MONTH, All the utilities, transport, healthcare went up too but alas not their pay, The peso is down again today as it will be tomorrow and the next day until the big devaluation happens. ( which is close very very close)

I think this whole 'inferiority' position is something the government in Argentina plays up. It makes an easy target for them to blame 'superior' countries for their own blatant mistakes and inability to govern. It is a nonsense.

I always find it amusing when Argentines refer to the 'arrogant' and 'superior' UK when they are the exact words used by people in other SoAm countries to describe Argentines.

the problem for Argentina is that they have now way out of this mess as any economist with any credibility has long since been dispensed with and so its left to political cronies with no concept of economics or politics to undertake the serious business of government.

Peronism has, is and will continue to kill argentina until they wake up and change course.

the problem for the country is that they have no real opposition because it has been bought off, the military are useless as they have been deliberately underfunded to stop any coup and the general population is too indoctrinated to do anything about it.

I see no brightness on the horizon for them, in fact, if they let china in to save them it will ultimately kill them.

the fact is that when they say that the US, UK and EU has a superiority complex, what they really mean is that like all of south America Argentina has an inferiority complex.

they just cant shake of who they are or where they came from because ultimately they are an implanted people on the wrong continent.

After years of China like growth estimates are that 22% of the population still lives in poverty AND NOW THEY”RE IN A TAILSPIN into a recession and probably a depression with hyperinflation. Does that mean it will be 50% within a year? Or are the Chinese going to bail them out?
Who's to say....

How about American poverty at 17% highest in 39 years since the 73 oil shock.

1 in 4 kids in the US is poor.

Home ownership lowest in 20 years.

30% of properties in the USA have negative net worth.

Economy slowing fast (after what... three months of growth?)

So five years of recession (since 2007), and all you can get is a good trimester, and things are slowing again. LOL. Yeah you are the big bad USA hahaha, but rememeber life is about what have you done for me today...

Is this like the behaviour of the escort frigates to the Belgrano? One ship gets hit, the 2 escorts bugger off leaving the crew of the Belgrano to their fate, despite HMS Conquerer radioing them and assuring them they wouldn't be fired upon, during the recovery/rescue of the sailors?

I'm sure all the people's of South America are lining up to fight Argentina's battles for them. I'm sure you and the rest of the Malvanista are willing to the last drop of their blood.

You talk big for a little man.

@158 Tobias, even during it's worst economic recession the USA is doing better than Argentina, and they don't have to lie to their people about just how dire the economic situation is.

But time will tell whose economic policies are the best, the USA or Argentina's. My money is on the US economy weathering this economic storm, Argentina is bailing fast as the waters rise but it on the brink of sinking.

Toby, Even with slow economic growth we grew out MORE THAN ARGENTINA”S WHOLE GDP LAST YEAR. I've told you many times you are are going to look very foolish comparing the USA to Argentina. Compare yourself to Venezuela or Zimbabwe it is much easier.
If we had 30% inflation with only 2% growth I would be concerned. We have basically no inflation and growth it could be better and as soon as we get a new Prez it will be. I'm not worried.

Nice to know it's the same 15 names posting crap in these threads. You aren't in any way whatsoever representative for Britain, a fact you will appreciate tomorrow.
Rattle with your guns all you want, we know even more than yourselves that you are full of it...

162 - How do you know that British views on this site are not representive??? have you done a poll yourself. The only aggression being displayed is by th RG government, it serves as a great divertion to Argentinas economic collapse, lack of world standing and humiliation at losing a war 30 years ago. Give peace a chance and stop bullying the 3000 Falkland Islanders..simple. But every regime / dicatatorship needs a nemisis. The humiliation for Argentina will ease in time.

There is no such thing as RELATIVE property. That is the biggest lie you can tell youselves.

Poverty is measured by societal pressure. This can be easily demonstrated in a study done in Argentina in the mid 2000s...

Children that are middle class being sent to private schools, either because their parents made the sacrifice to pay or due to scholarship... schools attended by upper class people and sons and daughters of diplomats.

Over 70% of those children reported feeling depressed and less in worth, because they could not keep up with classmates that sported new shoes every week, or having to attend birthdays and seeing the homes some of their classmates lived in. Similar studies were then conducted in other countries corroborating this phenomenon. Yet they were otherwise children that did not suffer any want and lived in typical middle class homes.

If a poor person in the USA makes 17,000 a year, he could care less about the comparison to the poor of Zimbabwe or India... he cares only how he is doing in relation to those around him. And that is what creates psychological poverty, which is far more devastating than relative poverty across nations.

Why? Psychological poverty leads to depression, or to hostility or addictions. Which reinforces the process. It is in such ”poverty' milieu that all kinds of societal ills occur. The actual money amount is irrelevant, what matters is the environment.

Which is why you see drugs, abuse, and violence in the poor of the richest nations as much as in those in poorer nations.

Further proof of this is countries like Bolivia, Cuba, Malawi... there, people are universally poor, and their crime rates are much lower than the USA and most of Europe. Why? Because the social stigma of being at the bottom of the latter has been removed. The same applies to wealthy nations with egalitarian tendencies (Norway, UAE).

Being poor in the USA, Argentina, Honduras or Somalia is exactly the same: a state of mind.

I can only reach the conclusion that you are the product of generations living on an island without access of new fresh blood to your genes. Add that to the fact that EU avI can only reach the conclusion that you are the product of generations living on an island without access of new fresh blood to your genes. Add that to the fact that EU average is 15 cm, and I truly understand your need for rattling with guns...erage is 15 cm, and I truly understand your need for rattling with guns...

I can only reach the conclusion that you are the product of generations living on an island without access of new fresh blood to your genes. Add that to the fact that EU average is 15 cm, and I truly understand your need for rattling with guns... There, now even you can read it...

@167 You just stole 2 minutes of my life reading the crap you just wrote. Poverty is relative because what a British person calls poverty equates to eating chicken kievs all day and watching sky tv in a council house. What an argentinian calls poverty is having no food.

What I wrote is scientific studies. You are poor only if you think you are poor (we are not talking about starvation here, which is phsyical distress due to want). Just material perception of poverty.

And material perception of poverty is completely psychological. If you live in a town of millionaires with 20 room mansions and tennis courts, there is a good chance that your 4 bedroom home with a small patio and your 50k salary will have you feel miserable. Fact.

No one in Argentina calls poverty as having no food. You are just a hurt little man who has to lie and exagerate to the point of being a fool.

All we are interested in is the following,
If the UK government does not wish to be accosted and laugh at, every time it opens the bloody door in the morning, as sees this silly child sitting on the doorstep, then we want to know this,,,
Can the British government send this silly women home, and an undesirable person,
If we can then send her back.
If not then ignore her and snub her,
/////////////////////////
But the million dollar question IS will the British government do anything about her,
Yes or no.

Depression and Poverty ar different concepts or am I missing something you know RG logic gets me quiet confused.
Riddle me this Toby, why are there SA doctors cleaning pools and working as janitors in the USA if poverty is the same everywhere?

dear me, here it comes, making it up again. So Tobias people are now leaving europe and the us in droves and taking up life in Rg Land? I somehow doubt that but please dont let the truth get in the way of your little fantasy.

178. They went because they have U$ and it WAS cheap.
I lived like rock star in 2001 but I came back to the USA when inflation started creeping up (10-12% yr) and it started to get dangerous.
Do you think anyone will be left now that it is 30% and tourists are getting stabbed in the parks?
Even USA tourists are shunning BA now you're left with other SAs that have no $ to spend.

No need for that. Girls in London are actually quite allright, perhaps because they are underrated so expectations are lowered. Happens with Paris for example everyone always hears wonders about it and then you go and end up dissapointed. Same happens with many tourists going to Brazil expecting every girl to be a knockout and end up sorely dissapointed.

It is so bad there is even a syndrome associated with Paris let-down.

Japanese get fed at home such a utopian image of Paris that when they get there and deal with the dirtyness, traffic, roughness outside the tourist areas, and the parisians themselves, they go into psychological distress.

Which brings my point back... psychology plays a HUGE part in everything in life, including the perceptions of material poverty (NOT famine)!

I wonder if the young people he is talking about are Gap Year students? We encourage our young people to spend a year travelling and getting a wider perspective of life between the end of formal schooling at 18 and starting university. Many head to cheaper countries in South America and SE Asia to experience a new culture. They often suppliment their budget with teaching languages and casual work. Many more volunteer in the poorer countries.

Travel broadens the mind, promotes tolerance and removes prejudices. It is great fun too.

Did you know that ARGENTINES have a higher per capita income in EVERY NATION OF THE AMERICAS, then the citizens of those countries themselves??

There are Argentines in all nations of Central America, South America. Usually they are in the news business, television, sports players, modelling, hospitality and food, or are some sort of professional. In all countries they are much wealthier than the average citizen. I can provide you with a bunch of articles over the years on this, articles by media outlets in those countries (not argy).

And yes... in the United States, argies make more money than the average American. Proof? US CENSUS! Look it up.

Xect
I'm not your average troll, I just dislike being told that I will get shot at by one of your non-trolling posters. You can't take a normal discussion without starting abusing, and when people abuse you back, it's only because they are trolls... Tell you what, be arrogant, feel you have the right to abuse and play the victim when getting abused at. I don't care.

All I do care of, is the numbers, and they are saying you are facing 20 years of relative poverty, while we are going upwards and upwards. And yes, INCLUDING Argentina

194. That statement has nothing to do with what we are talking about and I am not sure what point you are trying to get across.
You could replace EU, UK, USA with ARGENTINES and it would also be true.
The US Census wouldn't have good data on what illegal RGs make in the USA most of them don't fill out the form. Are you for real?
Most the RGs I know of in the USA are strippers, bartenders and waiters.

@190 I tend to see a different reaction in the UK. Most come back with fantastic stories, great experiences and friends for life all over the world. Also, a taste for travel which, with a British passport is a privilege not everyone can experience. They also possess a greater understanding and tolerance of people from other cultures.

It is also true that they understand how blooming lucky they are to live in a developed country, don't take it for granted anymore and have a greater appreciation of the standard of living they enjoy. I think that is a good lesson for a young adult to learn.

The truth is we are all very similar in that most of us want the same basic things and more than anything my overwhelming experience of travel is the kindness of strangers.

Personally, I have never met anyone in South America as toxic as some of the posters on here.

Xect
I agree I was being rude yesterday, but only after Chicureo, Elaine and Yanqui started attacking my person, doing silly profiling. Again today I tried to be civilized, only to get Conqueror saying he was going to shoot (???) me...

I think trolling is deliberately entering a debate and trying to cause problems.

All of those people you mentioned with the exception of Conqueror are generally quite peaceful and respectful but after your previous posts they were obviously annoyed and decided to (successfully) run you down.

Conqueror is actually a very knowledgeable guy but his response to any form of aggression is a lot more extreme than a lot of other UK/British/Falklander's.

Even I was deliberately winding you up because of the things you had previously posted and I don't usually engage in those antics.

I'm willing to give people a chance as long as they are adding value and not being moronic. People like Marcos, Danny (now Dany after his first account was banned) & co have always been moronic and probably always will be, hence they get zero respect from other posters with their rather obvious one-trick pony trolling.

Xect
How can I put this... I beg to differ, mayhap...?
What you are trying to tell me is that all those who thinks differently are moronic by nature, and not because they (also) readposts that they understood as offensive? Telling a man that he will get shot is not moronic, it's nothing but a slight overreaction? Scroll back and check for yourself when I started acting moronic. Tell me it was before I got all these posts telling me where I come from and making assumptions on my state of mind.
How come you have the right to post moronic post only to wind people up, and in the same sentance you tell me I have to be serious in order to be taken seriously? You sincerely think you guys are the only ones with the right to get annoyed when reading moronic posts?
Treat others as you want to be treated yourself, otherwise it is nothing but double morals.

@214 - I agree with you. While Mrs Castro stays as Argentina's Ambassador and continues to perform these pathetic and desperate acts, Argentina will have Zero credibility on the international stage.

@213 - Fermin the only people not willing to give 'peace a chance' is the government of Argentina. The people of Falkland Islands already have peace, but it is occasionally interrupted by the childish, rude but impotent neighbours called Argentina.

Argentina will only be respected on the world stage when you start respecting others. However, Mrs Castro was talking to the wrong person about the sovereignty issue. She needs to talk to the government of the Falkland Islands, but she won't do that, 'cos then she'd have to recognise them.

So the reason there are no talks, whatsoever, is because of Argentina's intransigence. You can't ask to negotiate when you have it written into the constitution that Soveignty is non-negotiable. Negotiation by it's definition means both parties give and take until they come to an amicable solution. All Argentina wants to do is take: take away the freedoms of the Falklanders, take away their homes and property, take away their culture, steal their resources, perhaps even take away their lives too.

He stopped her because we had heard it all before, and, it true diplomatic style, she had asked a question that she already knew the answer too. She ought to be thanking William Hague for stopping her before she made even more of a fool of herself.

For more reasons why, just read post 215 LEPRecon to why. The Argentinian government can not be trusted.

By all means keep silly Mrs Castro as ambassador.
Shes certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed.
lts just like keeping Cristina as pres.
She stops the Argentine military from ever being a threat to us.
When the oil starts to flow & we are rolling in it, perhaps we should put both of them on the government payroll!

Just for my edification , I have emailed the Argentinian Embassy in London asking for information as to what the discussions should be about between Ms Castro and the UK govt, considering the fact that the Argentine has enshrined its claim to sovereignty in its Constitution. I also pointed out that the UK does not recognise the claim and retains its sovereignty in the shape of the Falkland Islands Legislature.
My final line was........what can there be to discuss ?
If I am favoured with a reply, I will post it here.
It seemed a better idea to question the organ grinder rather than some of her monkeys who post here.

the problem for Argentina is that they have now way out of this mess as any economist with any credibility has long since been dispensed with and so its left to political cronies with no concept of economics or politics to undertake the serious business of government.
AHAHAHAHAHAH,cestrian..a pirate country uk talking about law....Stuoid cestrian
Who cares,anyways uk is finishedwww.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Z3awCv1hQ&feature=relmfu

I also pointed out that the UK does not recognise the claim and retains its sovereignty in the shape of the Falkland Islands Legislature
UNGA says there is a sovereignity dispute an uk IGNORED!
Soo long for this law breaking rogue nation.....18 century garbage!

A documentary about Nazi Argentina, on a discussion group the Argentine posters were quote disapointed that Argentina was still a military dicatorship. However you people are still fanatical nationalists with ambitions to add the entire South Atlantic and Antartica to your territorial aquisitions. next step will be Chile and Uraguay and they know it. Which is why we have so much support from the people of those nations.

#3 So you think freezing out is a good thing? You really are a disgrace to Britain accentuating the negative like that. And I think Alicia would have made a great air hostess in her younger days, she's still got a bit of that sparkle even now that she's older, and her visible keen intellect still keeps her pretty at least in the eyes of those of us who apreciate such things

#54 & 56 Well put =)

#112 Or there could be another possibility, that with the government's policies moving left those who are with Cristina, as I would myself if in such a situation, are showing a bit of solidarity (rather than sycophancy) and moving in the same direction. Question is what side are you on, Cristina or the powerful reactionary forces that are out to unseat her and stop all social advance

If Falklanders do not want to be Argentinians....I am all for that. Argentina is bullying, and forceful.
We must show respect to all war dead, from whichever country, this git did not do this.
Ban his entry into the UK.

bann them from the olympics,
and make CFK give all the bits of argentina that has been taken from other parts of south america, back to the rightfull owners,
then split what is left into UN provences .
end of .

Misiones and Formosa Provinces are provinces of Argentina that were seized and annaxed by Argentina from Paraguay this page is dedicated to address Argentine hyporcacy and ensuring their return to Paraguay.

If you use her logic then the Falklands does have the right. The separate provinces of the UK are England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. As Scotland now has a SNP goverment they are planning to hold a referendum in 2014 to see if the populous wish to leave the UK.

If Scotland have that right the Falklands (that totally governs itself apart from foreign affairs and defence) has the right of self-determination.

Or would Ms. Castro say the Scots do not have the lawful right to control their own destiny?

Don't understand the mentality here behind Argentinas thinking. They assume that an island hundreds of miles away from their coastline must be argentine! Can Britain also assume the same? If so, should we invade the Faroe islands? Their whole argument seems to focus on a very weak historical paper! This relates to 1833! To put this in context I request Argentina to be assimilated back into the Spanish empire! And America succum to British rule. The point I'm making here is Argentina and the USA did not want to be Spanish or British they wanted independence. The people of the falkland islands want to be British. The Argentinian president has now moved the Falklands much closer to the uk than ever. Friendly relations with Britain would have cleared the way for the uk to gently persuade the islanders that Argentina is not a third rate country and may after a few generations have convinced them that Argentina was the future. Just at a time when the British were looking at the Falklands war as a distant memory, Argentina rekindles the injustice and stupidity of a country struggling to distract their people from a failed government. Argentinas claim about britain militarising the south atlantic just makes them look ridiculous to the rest of the world when they invaded an island that doesnt want them only thirty years before! Argentina needs to accept that many parts of the world has changed governance in the last few hundred years. Argentina being one of them!

@236Muttley,
The people of the Falklands don't just not want to be part of Argentina, they vehemently oppose ever becoming under their rule.
Argentina is a failed rogue state, that just over 30 years ago, brutally murdered AT LEAST 30,000 of their own citizens.
What guarantees have we that that could never happen again?
Argentina wants to expand at the expense of their neighbours.
lndeed they believe that its their right to do so.!
Why would ANY sane person want to give up a stable, prosperous democracy like the Falklands & be submerged in the teeming millions of a corrupt mercurial unstable dictatorship like Argentina?
Forget their ridiculous claims.
Their claims are utter bullshit as any research will prove.
lf Argentina was a peaceful, prosperous democracy, that respected its citizens, then its possible that we would want join them.
At the way things are at the moment, that is lightyears away.
The biggest problem is the mentality of the Argentine people when dealing with the Falklands.
Such arrogance.
l, personaly cannot see it ever happening.

#237 Argentina is a failed rogue state, that just over 30 years ago, brutally murdered AT LEAST 30,000 of their own citizens.
What guarantees have we that that could never happen again?

The success of Cristina's democratic leftist government is the best possible guarantee. Negotiations would contribute to that success. Making Argentines and Islanders both safer and better off under the protection of my benevolent peaceful beautiful Queen

In my opinion, the main point of the argument is often overlooked. Especially by the argentine people and government. Does an island with no recent history or common purpose with Argentina want to be ruled by that nation? The answer is a definite NO. This is not a British standpoint, it's one which the population of the islands stand by. This is no different than the Faroe islands wanting to be independent from Denmark. Without being rude to the islanders here, I can say that the average Brit cares little for an island which sits 8,000 miles away. For Argentina to even suggest Britain is a colonialist power is ludicrous. As far as I know there are no British sovereign territories which are being forced to remain under British rule. There are some which Britain would be more than happy to part ways with but as long as the people of those territories want to be British then it's their choice. Assume a scenario where Britain simply hands the islands over to Argentina! What would happen? The biggest single factor in argentinian claims for the falkland were lost when argentina invaded the islands in 1982 and As I stated earlier, the Argentinian government of recent years has made the chances of taking over the falkland islands 'at best' a distant dream with their amateur diplomacy skills and silly claims about British pirates. Quite honestly it looks to the rest of the world like a chimps tea party except the chimps are better looking and a dem sight cleverer!

Argentina is a product of colonialism, conquered by the sword, most of the natives killed and infected by disease, their land taken from them and worked by imported African slaves, oversean by imported European colonials. The African's who made up 50% of the population would themselves completely disapear from Argentina between 1850-1900 in what could have been a chilling fore runner to the disareances of the Dirty War in the 1970's when an estimated 30,000 Argentines were raped, tortured and murdered, many more were held illegally in detention camps and tortured. The true figure for the dead could be as high as 100,000, no one knows because there is little official documentation and most bodies were dumped in the sea.

Argentina took land from its neighbours in numberous wars , civil wars and land grabs - Paraguay, Uraguay, Chile. Today Argentina despite the changed political landscape is still a nation characterised by uber nationalism. The claim to the Falklands was surendered in 1850 but reserected in 1941 by a fascist junta, which inc Peron, they thought their friends the Nazi were going to win the war, the Falklands looked easy picking.

In 1982 Argentina was under the latest succession of a series of fascism military junta's. Their hold on power was looking precarious, in deperation they sort a war, Chile looked like a good victim, they already claimed lots of land and were ignoring the international tribunals that had ruled in Chile's favor. But then they changed their mind and invaded the Falklands. Today the war is romanticized by a nation ruled by a kind of cross between a Neo-Nazi uber nationalist and a Charvesta Revolutionary uber Marxist. The only thing missing is the land reform. Maybe that's for later? But as few natives remain, maybe they'll just ignore their rights... God knows they always have. An entire culture replaced by a European one. Entire languages destroyed.

Ambassador Alicia Castro you make every Argentine proud and I am sure that many Argentine's can sleep better at night knowing that you care for our needs as well as the needs of the next generation, my hat if off for you.

#243 Well as long as someone like her, with the right policies and a good heart, takes over, someone like Timmeran, Alicia Castro, Kicillof or more likely someone we haven't heard of yet as it should be a long time hence (or maybe Florencia, why does it have to be the boy who's expected to keep the dynasty going?) and the robust good health of Argentine democracy which she has nourished continues to be defended, then the Islanders and Argentines alike should fear not for a return to the bad old days. All this would be easier if the British granted negotiations now, but thats probably one of the reasons they don't want to, as Cameron's neoliberal imperialist government would WANT a return to the bad old days of subservient neoliberal regimes in Latin America

The trouble is she has made herself look ridiculous to the rest of the world. If the argentine people do love her (I have no reason to doubt your word) then make her a queen then you could vote for a politician to negotiate on behalf of the argentine people. What also seems to be interesting is that almost every argentine believes that Britain is some imperialist state acting like pirates and suppressing the poor minorities for personal gain. If you've ever been to the UK you'd know that no one here cares. If you were to ask anyone here to name British overseas territories I'd be surprised if they could name more than two. Before 1982 (when Argentina successfully destroyed any hopes of the Falklands ever becoming an argentine overseas teritory) no Brit knew of the falkland islands! By your 'queen' spouting off every single day with ridiculous statements about Britain. She's slowly but surely annoying everyone here and destroying ANY chance of friendship with Argentina. It seems to most people outside of Argentina that she is very good at using the falkland islands as a distraction from domestic problems.

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