African Roots of Ireland – Oguejiofo Annu

There are many oblique references to the presence of Black people in ancient Ireland. Ancient Irish mythology refers to the original inhabitants of the island as being a giant, sea-faring people called the Fomorians (Fomors), which means “dark of the sea”. According to the ancient lore, they were a cushitic people from the African continent. Often depicted as demons, they defeated the first few incoming waves of invaders, but could not defeat the Firbolgs, who settled the land and lived side-by-side with the native Fomors.

Those myths may have a factual historical basis. It is proposed that the Formorians were a real people who were in all likelihood sailors from the African continent.

Two more invasions, the first led by the godly Tuatha de Danaan, and the second by the Celtic Milesians, took control of Ireland, mixing together with the Fomorians until they were no more.

There are credible sources for the African association with Ireland. The most likely of these is that they were Phoenicians and/or Egyptians. The Phoenicians were Canaanites, which came from the line of Ham. Ham is the mythological ancestor of the Black nation.

The Phoenicians were also well-known for their sailing skills, and are said to have traveled to the British Isles, which they called the “Tin Islands”. Perhaps, before Ireland was a Celtic domain, which it wasn’t until a few centuries BCE, the Phoenicians colonized it. It is noteworthy that the name Fomorians sounds a bit like Phoenicians.

There is also a legend that an Egyptian princess, Scota, left Egypt with some followers and journeyed to Ireland. Legend has it that Egyptians left many ancient tin mines all over Britain but especially Ireland which was their major source of the valuable metal.

Another idea is that they were Taureg Berbers. The Berber language is Hamitic, and the Berber people live in an area from which travel to Ireland would be easily accessible. The Berbers perhaps set sail from western Morocco, and settled on Ireland before the Celts, making it their new home.

Moorish Science Temple founder Drew Ali teaches that Ireland was once part of a Moorish empire, and that the Irish are a Moorish people. Perhaps there is a common root between the “moor” sound in Fomor and the word Moor?

Selkies and Half-Breeds

Another Irish legend tells of the Selkies, a sort-of “wereseal” that is a seal during day, but a human by nightfall. Sometimes, in an Irish family of fair-skinned, light-haired people, a child is born with dark hair eyes, and skin, and is called a Selkie.

The concept of the Selkies appears to make subliminal reference to the half-breed children that resulted from the extensive miscegenation that occurred between the Celts and the dark skinned original inhabitants that they had met upon their arrival in Ireland.

Many people of Irish descent have distant and recent African roots, and these features can still be seen in the people and in the culture. There are some Irish people with Afros (just like Andre the Giant a late continental EuropeanÂ wrestler with afro-hair). In Southern Ireland, some people, referred to as “Black Irish”, are noted for their strikingly dark features, as opposed to the fair-skinned, light-haired north.

Although many Irish descendants are particularly pale, they do have pronounced Africoid facial features, as well as dark brown eyes, and dark brown hair that is sort-of kinky, especially in moist conditions. A sub race of the Irish called the Bronn are noticeably Mediterranean (read: African) in features especially their hair.

In addition to all of this, Celtic music is distinctly different from the rest of Europe, and easily comparable to African music.

Black, Viking and Irish

Unlike Scotland and England, Ireland was never colonized by the Romans. As a result, Ireland remained relatively isolated.

The Vikings established port cities like Dublin. The Viking texts left stories and descriptions of African soldiers captured in Ireland whom they called blaumen[blue-men].

Most Viking references to ”black” in Norse would have signified having black hair as opposed to skin color but blaumen meant black skinned. Most of these blaumen were captured soliders from Moorish Spain. It was observed that:

“A prominent Viking of the eleventh century was Thorhall, who was aboard the ship that carried the early Vikings to the shores of North America. Thorhall was “the huntsman in summer, and in winter the steward of Eric the Red. He was, it is said, a large man, and strong, black, and like a giant, silent, and foul-mouthed in his speech, and always egged on Eric to the worst; he was a bad Christian.””

“Another Viking, more notable than Thorhall, was Earl Thorfinn, “the most distinguished of all the earls in the Islands.” Thorfinn ruled over nine earldoms in Scotland and Ireland, and died at the age of seventy-five. His widow married the king of Scotland. Thorfinn was described as “one of the largest men in point of stature, and ugly, sharp featured, and somewhat tawny, and the most martial looking man… It has been related that he was the foremost of all his men.””

What about Scotland and Wales?

“Any comprehensive account of the African presence in early Europe should include England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Scandinavia. The history and legends of Scotland confirm the existence of “purely Black people.” We see one of them in the person of Kenneth the Niger. During the tenth century Kenneth the Niger ruled over three provinces in the Scottish Highlands.

The historical and literary traditions of Wales reflect similar beliefs. According to Gwyn Jones (perhaps the world’s leading authority on the subject), to the Welsh chroniclers, “The Danes coming in by way of England and the Norwegians by way of Ireland were pretty well all black: Black Gentiles, Black Norsemen, Black Host.””

Ogu Eji Ofo Annu

Sources:
Ancient And Modern Britons, by David Mac Ritchie
Nature Knows No Color-Line, by J.A. Rogers

468 thoughts on “African Roots of Ireland – Oguejiofo Annu”

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I wonder does Rastalivewire prefer verbal conflict to constructive discussion? It seems so, since both of my last comments have been deleted. If this comment is deleted I will be moving on to a website that values understanding more than conflict, and delete Rastalivewire from my favourites.
Peace.

Liar. None of your post has been deleted. You have been beaten into confusion by reason. Put up or shut up. We have been waiting for your comments but since you have none you want to start yelping like a wounded puppy. Put up or shut up like a real man. We are still waiting for you… No dramas please

And none of malachy’s posts were deleted as well. He is just crying wolf like you. No dramas please.

Liar. Cheap Mrs Drama O’Liar. Noone is deleting your post. You just have nothing to write and nobody on Rasta Livewire deleted any of your posts. I personally confirmed with the Web Master. You are a confused beaten liar. Nobody on Rasta Livewire is afraid of a lil boy who does not know about DNA yet began an argument about DNA. Put up your arguments and stop the melodrama Mrs Dramatics. Put up or shut up! We are waiting…

If your so knowledgable and have a way of contacting the web master then maybe you can find out why ever time I try and make a post containing links it does not appear and if I try and repost it the site tells me it is a duplicit? Now your insulting me and you presume to much. I am have not been beaten yet if i can actually make my post I will gladly continue this little debate and hopefully end it.

You were beaten into confusion intellectually and now you resort to lying like a little boy. No body deleted your posts. You have no logic or reason which any one on this site would be afraid of. We are way ahead of you in this business. This is not a game.

When you come to Rasta Livewire be prepared to back up your point or just shut up and learn.

Insult?, you deserve a kick not an insult, for attempting to pass yourself off as something you are not. Made a mess of yourself with that DNA argument.

Now don’t be a nuisance, put up or shut up like a man…. and go read some MUUR articles from Rasta Livewire!

My posts with links still won’t go through. And 1) how exactly did I muck up the DNA evidence again? 2) what exactly have I claimed to be that I am not? 3) you do realize your not spelling “more” correctly. Right? Does that pass for wit wherever your from? It was cute the first time now it’s just kinda annoying. 4) a kick? Awfully hostile aren’t we. Maybe I touched a nerve there somewhere? 5) in your infinite wisdom did you find out why my post won’t show up or are you too caught up in narcisism to believe that I believe I actually have evidence to show you?

LOL. I guess that is all you have to say now. No MUUR huff n puff. No more grandstanding, after you were crushed by citations from Pliny, Tacitus, Julius Ceasar, MacRitichie, Godfrey Higgins, Massey, Thomas Shore, Shakespare etc.

I have nothing to hostile against a novice whelp like you. I enjoyed roasting your ass dark brown with knowledge. Now go study some MUURS!

Educate yourself… Just remove the spaces. And add the http
www. isogg. org/ tree/ ISOGG_HapgrpR. html
www. irishside. com/ tis/ content/nyt/128. htm
hubpages .com/hub/Irish-Blood-Genetic-Identity
I assume from there you can do your own research from there. Yes Tacitus described them as dark skinned in comparison to the Romans. That does not mean he saw the as being black he would have said they where black. He discribed them in a way that one would discribe someone of Spanish decent today which makes since since they are decended from the Basque. Once again the painting prove nothing. The on from the article was done in 2005 look it up. And even if you can show me one that isn’t a modern creation if it wasn’t made in the subjects life time how can it be an actual representation of the person. A reason the might have been depicted as black is the same reason Christ is sometimes depicted as black for that matter the same reason he is dipcted as white.
You can find MacRichie’s claim about the gypsies on pages 367 and 368 of Ancient and Modern Britons: A Retrospect, Volume 1
Anything else?

Higgins, Godfrey. Celtic Druids: Or, An Attempt to Show, that the Druids were the Priests of Oriental Colonies who Emigrated from India, and were the Introducers of the First or Cadmean System of Letters, and the Builders of Stonehenge, or Carnac, and of Other Cyclopean Works, in Asia and Europe. 1829; rpt. Los Angeles: Philosophical Research Society, 1977.

Massey, Gerald. A Book of the Beginnings: Containing an Attempt to Recover and Reconstitute the Lost Origines of the Myths and Mysteries, Types and Symbols, Religion and Language, with Egypt for the Mouthpiece and Africa as the Birthplace. Volume 1, Egyptian Origines in the British Isles. 1881; rpt. Secaucus: University Books, 1974.

Would you like me to go through those and pick out the ones written by well know Afrocentric writers. Example of why those make bad references? What if I referenced hitler to explain that the Jews are evil? Do you see my point? They have an agenda. A reason to misrepresent the facts and a bias when interpreting them.

A lot of the are also rather outdated. Many wouldn’t stand up very well in light of modern archeological finds, gentics, and other recent discoveries. I also knowticed some myths and such like the The Mabinogion. What could you hope to prove by citing a myth. Isn’t that how this all got started? This article citing the myth of the Fomorians as if it were historical fact?

You asked for citations and authorities. I have given you close to 40 citations by acknowledged scholars covering a time span of 2000 years from Ephorus of Greece to 2012 authoritative citations on genetics. Now you don’t want to hear about authorities. Oh, poor you…. LOL!

I told you I would force feed you with the right and correct knowledge if you pushed me. Now you are feeling sorry for yourself. You are feeling so sore you cannot think Spanish men are blacker than Italian men…LOL!

The only man with melanin on the land of Europa yesterday, today and forever was the Muur, also called Africans, Ethiopians, Celts. The rest of you all are pale skin.

The Latins and the Greeks described Ethiopians as Melaneos (Melanopodes), from Melanin.

The same people described your pale skin tribes as Albinus (absence of melanin).

Do a Google Check if you think I am joking.

Thus when you heard an ancient Roman like Ceasar or Tacitus described a people as Melas, Moros, you know they are talking about the so-called Black people of today. Many of them as I have shown you are indigenous Europeans. African American men today have the so-called Euro-specific R1B Y-DNA.

On another note, here read this and go look at the image of the Black man discovered in Britain:

Dr Hella Eckardt, senior lecturer in Roman Archaeology at the University of Reading, said: “Our analysis of excavated skeletal remains of people living in Roman Britain such as the ‘Ivory Bangle Lady’ and others like her show that multicultural Britain is not just a phenomenon of more modern times.”

By analysing skeletons facial features, skull measurements, the chemical signature of food and drink and burial goods, archaeologists were able to learn more about Roman times and migrants of African descent who came to Britain.

The ‘Ivory Bangle Lady’ was a high status young woman of North African descent who remains were buried in Roman York (Sycamore Terrace).

Dated to the second half of the 4th Century, her grave contained jet and elephant ivory bracelets, earrings, pendants, beads, a blue glass jug and a glass mirror.

Dr Debbie Weekes-Bernard, who is leading the Romans Revealed outreach project, said: “The University of Reading research results showed that people came to Britain from many different parts of the Roman Empire, including North Africa. In some of the larger towns like York and Winchester, up to 20 per cent of the Roman Britain population may be classed as ‘non-local’ or ‘incomers’.

“This research is really important, providing evidence to challenge the current curriculum as taught in schools and highlighting the diversity of Roman Britain.”

According to the National Archives, the official archive for the UK Government, people of African descent have had a presence in Britain for the past 2,000 years.

In Roman times, black troops were sent to the ‘remote and barbaric’ province of Britannia – the ancient term for Great Britain – with many settling permanently even after the Roman legions left.

Actually science says so. Are you rejecting biology as well as genetics? Ok what’s your point? That black people some black people came with the Romans? How does that help you case exactly. It is interesting I will give you that and I have heard that kind of thing before. Also I never denied that black people have been coming to Europe for many years. I denied the fact that Gaels were African and that there was ever a large population of Africans in ancient Europe. Oh and could you show me where you got that bit of entomology?

Go and study the sources I gave you. Ephorus said so in 500 BC, he said that Celts were Ethiopians. Claudius said so, he called them Ethiopians. Tacitus said so, he described them as dark with curly hair. Pliny saw them, he described them as melaneos.

These were the earliest records of the physical description of the Celts of Britain.

Do you have a contemporary description which claimed they were whites, or blonds or albinus? Please provide if you have such source.

As a gift, I am posting for you a link to Saint Aidan another Black Saint of Ireland: Icon of St. Aidan:

Icon of St. Aidan presenting the gospel to King Oswald at the Church of St. Aidan, Bamburgh:

Actually there a massive amount of contemporary discriptions of the Irish as having light skin. Maybe the word you were looking for was classical. I have already given you some. Casear’s and the Greek word for the gauls Galatians meaning something like milk people. I believe there are a few more should I go look for them? It’s really kinda irrelevant at this point since the genetic evidence still stands.

What the hell are you talking about.. The Gauls were Celtic look it up. They were the celts living in France and such. Archeology and roman accounts will tell you that. I believe it was Caesar that said they discribe themselves as keltio. Wow..

I will be MUUR specific if you choose. Celtica was divided into three Celtica, Belgica, and Aquitania. The Belgicas correponding to modern day Belgium and northern Germany were known as Gallatia Beligicas. They were pale skin. Ceasar indicated that they were different from the Celts, in law, religion custom and ancestry. According to Ceasar Beligca Gauls were of Germanica descent. See Julius Ceasar: Commentarii de Bello Gallico (English: Commentaries on the Gallic War) Book 2 Belgica.

The British Celts were described as Ethiopians by other Roman and Greek eye witnesses.

“To take a physical characteristic alone, the more Celtic districts of the British Islands are at present marked by darkness of complexion, hair, etc…” – See the map of comparative nigrescence given in Ripley’s “Races of Europe,” p.318

“In France, however, the Bretons are not a dark race relatively to the reit of the population. They are composed partly of the ancient Gallic peoples …” – Celts in History Chapter 1

Have you ever heard of Tacitus until I brought him to your knowledge? Have you ever studied him?

Have you ever studied Pliny?

Have you ever studied Ephorus?

Have you actually studied MacRitichie or you are just reading some Wikipedia summary?

Do you really believe a Spanish man is darker in skin colour than a Roman as you claimed above? LOL!

Would you ever today describe some so-called “white boy” from today’s Spain as dark skinned?

Is the texture of the hair of a Spanish boy any different from yours or from a so-called white Italian’s?

Was Jesus white? Was he not from Palestine North Africa, one of the hottest parts of the world?

Oh, poor boy. You have been completely miseducated.

Why would Europeans make pictures of so-called Black people and claim them as Irish saints? You initially claimed it was Afrocentrists that were representing Irish saints as black people, do you want to apologise for that lie?

And one last question, what is the name of the Doctor who did the DNA testing of the ancient Silures? Put up or shut up…

Actually yes I have heard of Tacitus. He and cesaer offers valuable looks at the celts of Britain. Which has been useful, when taken with a grain of salt, in my effort to put together the pieces of my faith. Admitably I never bothered with the other classical writers because the don’t mention much about the religion of the celts. I have also heard of MacRichie as well. His theory on the origin of the Faeries is discussed and fairly well debunked in the ‘Fairy-Faith in Celtic countries’ by W. Y. Evans Wentz. Actually I would discribe some Spanish as having a darker complexion then mine as I’m really damn pale. I’m not sure about the hair thing as I’ve never inspected a spainards hair. Was Christ white? Your guess is as good as mine I never saw the man. I would assume based on the area he was reportedly from he would have looked like a middle eastern person. Then again he was supposed to have been a Jew so I guess whatever ethnic Jews look like? Who said Europeans made the modern dipictions of the saints as black? Once again if you can show me evidence that one of those paintings is authentic then we can move from there but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Maybe the Miseducated comment should be dropped. It may be a based on point of view. From where I’m standing your the one who has been miseducated by the ridiculous claims of this website and those like it perhaps you should use your mind.

How would I know what either of the two people’s looked like and yeah since in the pictures you just showed the Spanish king and queen do have a slightly darker complexion than the random “Italians” in the other search.

Jahdey my friend I’m beginning to worry about you. You can tell the difference between a photograph and a drawing can’t you? You understand they are not the same media? How are you going to show me Franco’s complexion through an artists dipictions of him? Wouldn’t it make more since to show me someone of Basque ancestry compared to an Italian? That would be closer genetically speaking to the comparison of a ancient Irishman to a roman wouldn’t you think?

I never claimed they were you either misunderstand or you twisted my words. I said they were darker in complexion. Which doesn’t mean black only darker. Do you only see the world in terms of black and white?

Oh and as to your Silures. I don’t recall having said anyone did. I think I said something along the lines of the Irish, some scots, and some Celtic brits like those decended from the Silures have are closely related to the Basque. Or at least that’s what I meant anyways.

I never claimed to in fact I have stated I’m an Irishmen. You know the blokes from the other island to the west? Actually fun fact the saxon’s (the guys that did invade England after the Romans pulled out) weren’t able to wipe out all of the Celtic British. The did drive most off to the western parts of the island. There what most people call the Welsh now. The rest they just breed with and thats part of the British racial makeup. Oh and on an odd note I’ve heard somewhere that the possible historic king aurther was a Silures. To be fair there isn’t much to go on with that one though. Some say he was roman, some Irish, some Scottish most just say welsh.

Do you want me to link you again to the story on Irish hunting and enslavement? The Saxons hunted down almost all the black Irish, killed them or deported them to United States where many of them are mistakenly called African Americans though they have the R1B Y-DNA to prove their roots, and have the written history of Black Irish to back them up.

The ones the Saxons failed to enslave, they raped them and made into half white breeds, who have been indoctrinated into self hate by a fake educational system.

Maybe you are really some Aryan-Celtic half breed, who has forgotten his other history replaced with self hate and self-negation, believing you are schooled, while you have been had and fooled.

At Rasta Livewire, we show the other half that was not told.

I posted you a link to a Church sanctioned image of a Black Irish Saint and you went suddenly silent. Did you miss it or are you musing…lol!

What the fuck are you talking about? America hadn’t been discovered when the saxons invaded and even I was referring to them conquering britain. How did the hunt down ‘black Irish’ in England? And again the DNA evidence does not lie. Basque is the closest relative not German.

Ok yet again you show me an article that makes claims but doesn’t tell me where it got its information. Granted the English have done some pretty screwed up things to us but I’ve never in my life heard anything like that. Sure there was plantation and foreign rule and stripping away most of our culture but I wouldn’t go so far as to say slavery. And maybe I’m just missing it but what does that have to do with the ancient Irish?

After the Saxon and Germanics invaded the Island in 5th century AD, there came a 1000 year period of non-stop warfare and ethnic cleansing initiated by the Germanics. That led directly to the invasion and occupation of Ireland. It also led to the enslavement of Ireland and Irish people. Ask MacMalachy about it, he is aware.

What is the ancient cause of the was in North Ireland today?

What caused the Irish potatoe famine? English Saxon biological warfare.

Where does that live you? It means you should be more humble when you hear stories about Black Europeans. It means you need to push beyond the limits of the history the English Saxons have fooled you with.

The cause of the wars in the north has to do with the northerners identifiying as British mainly because there Protestant while most people in the Rebulic are Catholic. As to the bit about ethnic cleansing where did you read that?(please gods don’t say another source less article on the web) and I have as I’ve said more times then I care to count that I have shown proof against the “African roots of Ireland” maybe you should look into the Basque roots of Ireland. I have accepted that there are numorious examples of black people in Europe the only thing I have argued these past few days is the claim that the ancient Irish were African which again I have disproven with modern genetic studies plus the fact that archeological evidence does not back up such claims.

On the note of melanin I stand corrected as my wife just reminded me some albinos have no melenin or at least very low amounts of it. That being said its not just a human thing either animals have it. In this I have to bow to her she’s the one who’s a nurse and had to take biology.

Ok enough with the saints already. That one is clearly a very worn depiction and doesn’t mean he was black. Show me the original color and wither or not the artist used a darker color for an artistic reason or for reasons of realism or whatever. Now your just acting desperate.

You still didn’t read my link did you. Yes Africans are part of the same family tree but are a different branch of it. Look at the link that shows the tree for Rb1 and all of its sub clades before you confuse your self. It is a rather confusing system but you will see the western Europeans have a different subclade than the Africans. The two split off and went different ways on west out of Asia eventually to western Europe wear you find the highest instances of it and another into Africa where you find the highest instances of that one. Geneticist can distinguish between the two groups. Read the damn link if you don’t believe me. I won’t bother to repeat this again.

About 30% of African American men have the same clade of the genes as found in Europe. Some Aryanists like you would want to claim that those men are descendants of some slave masters, which is just wishful thinking.

They are the descendants of Black Celtic men, and other European Moors who were ethnically cleansed from Europe.

Pliny spoke of them, Claudius spoke of them, even Tacitus spoke of them.

I showed you their ancient pictures and I show you now their living descendants.

DNA does not lie. It proves Pliny, Claudius, Ceasar and Tacitus spoke the reality which is Ancient Black Britain.

And yes African Americans may very well have the form of Rb1 found in the Irish. I told America is kind of like a big melting pot. And I’m sure the Irish and African Americans could have married. From what I understand they were treated about the same during the earlier years of the USA

I never claimed that was the case see the above comment for my explanation as to how the might have come to carrier that gene. Unless you can show there ancestors had the gene before going to America it would make more since that it came to them from marrying Irish immigrants to America.

So again if a Irishman marries a black women and has a child the boy would have the Irish subclade of Rb1. Which explains how an African American would come to have it regardless of which side of the pond the union that produced said child and his decendents took place. As to your “proof”, one two words source please.

The original Celts did not need to marry black women to become black because they was already black. Pliny told you so Ceasar told you so, even Tacitus told you so. They came to America black. Are you crazy? Did I not show you evidence of Irish slave trade?

Yet again no. We no from the DNA evidence that the Irish are decended from the Basque who have been in Europe since the stone age before the migrated some migrated to Ireland at the end of the last ice age. No one could have been in Ireland before that as it was covered by glaciers.

Dark skinned being the key in Ephorus work not black. I doubt claudius used the term blackmoor as that is not a Latin word. I can not explain Pliny’s statement and will have to research it and view multiple translations but again there discriptions can still be countered by the genetics.

MUUR is a word which came into the modern European languages from Latin. Do a check for the etymology of the word MOOR.

It means Black people, like Mauritanians, country full of MUURS.

Claudius the Roman historian said the Celts were Moors. We gave you a citation and with page number and you are still babbling about being in shock. Ofcourse you ought to be in shock they never taught you the truth in school.

Pliny said the CELTS looked like Ethiopians.

You make a fool of yourself each time you mention DNA. You don’t know that science so just don’t go there.

I will however use this occassion to give you MUUR lessons on the different types of DNA:

Y-DNA genetics do not determine looks or race. That is why R1B is found both in Africans and Europeans. It is a chromosomal DNA.

Archeology is another good proof of my point. If the ancient Irish were of African origin they would have left some evidence of there culture or left some evidence of there ‘Celtic’ culture in the place they came from. As far as I’m aware nothing of the sort has been found.

A still of clothing can’t develope in multiple places. Same argument for the pipes really. And actually I wouldn’t say the pipes are a hallmark the first time there mentioned in the British isles was some time in the 15 hundreds if I recall correctly. Remember my comment on being a fiddle player? I know music pretty well. So sure the scots prob adopted the pipes. They were played all over Europe and yeah in northern Africa. That still doesn’t mean that the were African just cause the wore similar clothing and had similar tastes in odd musical instruments. Sorry I’m not a fan of the bagpipes myself.

Again you link me to another article on this site. Remember what I have already said about that. And again the article has only the source were it got the article not any citation or links to proof of its claims.

For one here is another link. Go learn something. http:// www. britannica. com/ EBchecked/topic/101778/Celtic-languages
Two ok so there are similarities in sentence structure I doubt highly and self respecting modern scholar has made the claim that the Celtic languages are from Africa though. As modern linguistics shows us they are Indo-European. I mean really you don’t even have to look hard to find this information. The link to brittannica was just one of the first that popped up and goes into good detail on the family tree so to speak. I feel like now your just grasping at straws.

Ok, how about languages? Note Tunisia and Algerie and Mauritania were all one country in the past:

“Linguists say a study of Irish and other Celtic languages has produced possible evidence that when the Celts invaded Ireland and Britain there were already Afro-Asiatic speakers here. Celtic languages – Irish, Scots Gaelic and Welsh – incorporate grammatical traits found in Afro-Asiatic tongues that are otherwise unrelated, according to research published last week in Science magazine.

Other Celtic languages that were spoken in continental Europe and have since died out did not have these grammatical quirks. Afro-Asiatic languages are currently spoken in countries across Northern Africa and the Near East. This points to the possibility that there was early contact between Celtic and North African populations in the British Isles.

Orin Gensler, of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany, said the similarities would be explained if, when Afro-Asiatic people learnt Celtic from the new immigrants, they “perpetuated aspects of their own grammar into the new language”. Gensler has studied many grammatical features found in both Celtic and Afro-Asiatic languages. He found many of the shared features were rare in other languages.

Linguists have discovered surprising differences between Celtic languages and related languages such as French, while seeing striking resemblances between Celtic and Afro-Asiatic languages that are spoken in countries including Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria.

Gensler examined features of the languages such as the order of words in a sentence. In Gaelic and Welsh the standard sentence structure is verb subject-object, which is a rare sequence. This is also the case in many Afro-Asiatic languages. Celtic languages that used to be spoken in continental Europe had the verb in the final or middle position.” – The Science Magazine

Where the hell did you find that? Gaelic is a Celtic language which comes from proto-Celtic which in turn is Indo-European in origin. There have been countless studies on that. Do a simple google search. So again wrong.

Your post actually doesn’t even say the celts were black. It hints that there may have been people there that spoke an Afro-Asiatic language. In the case of Ireland we know this is not the case as the Irish are decended from the basque who migrated to Ireland after the last glacial maximum.

Also we know that the Gaelic languages are from the Indo-European language family. You can find more articles on that than I care to post just by doing a quick search. Similar sentence construction does not prove a common origin. Once again your basically trying to say two people can’t come up with the same idea unless they are somehow connected.

You keep restating the same points I have brought up contradicting evidence for our out right debunked. Pulse you keep harping on Africans also having Rb1 which I have explained and offered you links explaining. You can keep making your assertions and all I’m going to do if refer you to my above arguments that you don’t seem to be reading. Some say the diffintion of madness is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different out come.

Fair enough. Here is Tacitus since you were so eager to quote him before.
“But their physical characteristics vary, and their variation is suggestive. The reddish hair and large limbs of the Caledonians proclaim a German origin; the swarthy faces of the Silures, the tendency of their hair to curl, and the fact that Spain lies opposite, all lead one to believe that Spaniards crossed in ancient times and occupied that part of the country. The peoples nearest to the Gauls likewise resemble them. It may be that they still show the effect of a common origin; or perhaps it is the climatic conditions that have produced this physical type in lands that converge so closely from north and south.”
[Agricola II]

Another little bit of interesting evidence. I can do you one better than showing you paintings. How about photographs and the facial reconstruction of an iron age Gael? Ever heard of bog mummies also know as bog bodies. Look up Clonycavan man. Or just follow this link.
http:// humanremainsfromthhdawnofhistory. weebly. com/clonycavan-man .html
to bad his skin didn’t maintain it’s original color or he could settle the debate once in for all. His hair though is pretty important. It’s been examined a good deal. Does his hair seem like that of a black mans?
I’ve already told you the logical way an African American would carrier the irish subclade of Rb1 so I’m not going to repeat myself again.

Admittedly the quote from Tacitus does say they are white but I thought it had some relevant Information to my argument. I will find a reference from classical sources discribing the ancient inhabitants of the British isles as white in a moment and post it if it’s even necessary at this point. You will have to forgive me for taking my time with this as I am looking through my physical books.

Stephen, sure you don’t have a reading comprehension, do you? Tacitus used the word swarthy and curly hair. He contrasted the dark Silures against the pale Germanics and Gauls…exactly like I told you. Where did you read that Silures were “white”?

Remember your task. Find me one acient writer who ever claimed that white Celts lived in Britain. I have shown you 10 ancient writers and 10 modern writers who claimed that Silures were black people.

Actually I don’t recall seeing 10 quotes that said they were black most of what you have shown me says dark skinned which you interpret to mean black. The one I recall claimed they were Ethiopians which I have not been able to find yet to see for myself. Perhaps you can give me the source of that one again?

Look again my friend. He speaks of the Caledonians as having red hair. Hardly a trait you would find in a black man. The caledonians were a tribe from Scotland. He compares them to the Germans who were white. Also he does not say the the Silures were black he uses the term swarthy and compares them to the people of Spain which makes since when you consider the DNA evidence. I see you also ignored poor old Clonycavan man. Nothing to say about him? Maybe you have a ‘reading comprehension’ lol

Sir, please don’t change the question. That would be using the logical fallacy of strawman’s argument.

All I asked you is the following: Show me one quotation from THE ROMAN OR GREEK PERIOD WHERE AN ANCIENT WRITER CLAIMED THAT THE CELTS OF BRITAIN HAD PALE SKIN.

You replied by telling me that the Caledonians were described as red hair.

Is that an admission that you cannot do the impossible?

Find it, before we forcefeed you MUUR European history…. Search the grammar books like you did this morning, search the dictionaries and encyclopadia, ask your grand-dad…go ahead… search today’s newspaper you will not find such a thing.

Are you really from Britain??? The ancients claimed that the CELTS OF BRITAIN were black skinned like the Ethiopians and the Moors. But here you are so pale skinned and straight haired and claiming to be from the ancient British Celts. See Pliny, See Claudius, see Tacitus, etc… above.

And yet you deny that the swarthy so-called Ethiopian (aka African) American Moor of today with his curly hair and R1B Y-DNA could not be a Celt.

No it is a statement that the caladoniaians had red hair and were compared to the white Germans. Therefore, the are being indirectly discribed as white. I trust you can read cant you? I am beginning to doubt it as you keep referring to me as British when I have clearly stated I am Irish. You know the island next to britian. I have also stated I live in Galloway which is in the republic of Ireland which again, is not part of the united kingdom. Once more I will say that with the exception of one almost ever discription of the inhabitants of the British isles you have have discribed most of them as having a darker complexion, not being black. You do realize that there are people with varying different skin tones and not everyone is black or white? So congratulations you have shown that the greeks and Romans saw some as being darker than themselves. Which as I have said before can be explained by taking into account the DNA evidence that says the Irish and some of the other people’s of the British isles are closely related to the Basque. I am still waiting on you comment pertaining to the bog body known as Clonycavan man.

This is really enlightenning and I daresay quite entertaining as I witness the burning of Stephen the Irish. So stubborn yet so feeble when hit with new old facts that has completely destroyed the notions he was socialised to embrace and hold dear. Just above he brings out another of his frantic denialist hilarities:

That Greeks and Romans (who are the DARKEST OF “WHITE” PEOPLE) describe (in contemporary time i.e real/ancient time-not fangled imaginations latter day EUROCENTRIC bigots and sundry rotten peepsqueaks) that the natives of Britanica were dark/swarthy/silures!

This should have given him pause…instead, he knee-jerked in utter panic.

There is no white race darker than the Greeks & Romans so if they have stated that the ancients of Britain were dark-skinned-it means they WERE DARK SKINNED aka BLACK otherwise known as AFRIKANS. They even described their hair and said they were ETHIOPIANS.Period.

Its a major cognitive dissonance that has shattered your smug ignorance.

Even as you reel around in a dazed stupor, find a way of being thankful. At least now you have a real choice to make: Whether are an authentic fool or a manufactured (white miseducated) one.

Before this event in Rastalivewire you did not have this choice as you took it for granted that the universe was all sorted out thanks to your devious universities.

@Jahdey & the team and all here (including little stephen!) asante for the knowledge.

So do you people just distort or ignore ever piece of contradicting evidence or is just a speacial thing on my behalf. I’ve disproven that the preceltic people of Ireland were black with DNA evidence. I’ve now shown you an iron age Celt. And if we want to keep this going I can show you dozens of discriptions from Irish myth referring to the Gaels as fair haired and skinned. I have debunked one of the painting you showed me and if I didn’t feel it would be a massive waste of time I could probably do the same with the others. I’ve explained the difference between dark skinned and black. ( just for healthy measure, I’ve been told the native Americans have dark skin. They must be black huh?) i even found you a bloody refrence from Tacitus describing the caledonian celts of Scotland as white like the Germans but I have somehow been ‘burned’? You seem to be under the impression I’m confused or something. Yes I’m confused as to why I’m arguing on an Internet forum over the skin color of people who’s decendents are in the room with me, next door, in my mirror, and all over my country. But hey if what you say us true guess that means I’m black. Better go tell the wife shes black too and the neighbor as well though I have a feeling he will give me a black eye. On second thought I think I will just stick with reality. Although, if I agree that my ancestors were black does that mean I can call you guys my (insert n-word here pending approval)?

Hahaha… you also debunked Tacitus, then you debunked MacRitichie, after that you debunked Godfrey Higgins, and Massey, and Julius Ceasar, etc on and on and on. Were those authors that you have been busy debunking Afrocentrists?

You have been unable to produce one piece of citation from an ancient writer about pale skin Celts of Britain or Ireland.

You are a sore loser. Go ask the wife, I am sure she will tell you that you are the descendants of Germanic invaders.

You are not related to the dark skinned Silures and the Picti, who were the aboriginal Moors of Britain.

Again, nope. A few years back I had my DNA tested when my father and I where doing some research into our family history. I have the Irish form of Rb1 and my last name is one of those old Gaelic ones I mentioned before. If your argument is true I’m decended from you black celts. How exactly have I lost? Your still ignoring my arguments? The Caledonians were discribed as white, though as I admitted before in directly. And your still ignoring clonycavan man. You can also look up Lindow man if you or any number of the big bodies found across Europe. Some have had DNA testing done and some have had facial reconstruction done.

Jahdey, your interest in the hundreds of tiny details of the Irish race seems excessive, it is very unlikely that you are motivated by great love or respect for the Irish people. What good is there for you in all the effort that you are putting in? “This is not a game” you have said more than once, if not a game then it must be a serious business. Why is Irish identity such a time-consuming business for you?

Jahdey, my guess is you have talent but are currently short of money, and so are obliged to work for a globalist factor. Mr. Kissenger outlined the difficulties the globalist agenda was having with certain European countries, those countries which had the strongest sense of independence and non- dependence on manufactured “culture”.
It would interest you know that the ffCouncil on rrForeign ttRelations have a large annual budget to de-stabilize established European culture, I guess that some of that money is in your pocket.

Thanks for that. Before the internet was even thought about my older brother told me about the great culture of Ethiopia, he told me to take it seriously, that was in the 1960’s, when we had rarely seen any Africans, and no Ethiopians at all. So he was right.

I would far prefer to see Ityopia and the Jah children as the new Jerusalem and Zion, rather than the nuclear armed Zionism that now prevails.

Mcmalaky you are also amazingly petty and obscurantist. What an odd query from someone who is in doubt and totally ignorant! Overwhelmed by the detail presented on the fact of Black priority in Britannica-your stupid eyes glaze over. This is not twitter where you can get by-infact thrive with tHe concentration levels of a gnat! No game.. You are childish and thought this was just for laughs. Now you have turNed resentful on finding that in order to deal you must be humble and with concentrated mind. At the end the day most pedestrian run of the mill racists are just ignorant and ill-educated.
It the cynical nefarious manipulators that continue to bamboozle you and steve Irish upon Galloway that we must expose and set aside.
This is news. This is school. Pay attention or wallow away in a white haze of unsettling contradictions.

Jahrateng, you have no understanding of the meaning of the term “petty and obscurantist”, you use it exactly the opposite to its intended meaning.

Jahdey is the skilled writer, he might give you some night classes on English in current use.

“You are childish and thought this was just for laughs.” No, I did think this was a good humoured discussion site for those interested in understanding the interaction between early Black and early European culture, a dispassionate discussion between informed people.

You say it’s “No game”, so it is a serious business, the business of “cynical nefarious manipulatiors”, – your words. Why would any honest person want to associate with people like you ?

You cant teach me this bloody inglish lingo of yours. Anybody can see that you should not be accusede of being into detail. You suti twitter and facebook. This is not a dumbing-down-the-masses kind of place you see. I just found your moaning about the details unleashed to you and stephen irish amusing and felt moved to point out this to you. What do you really want Mr. scottish? Throwing red herrings about grammar will not hide your cowardly, lazy attitude. Your whole worldview is in question and it IS A DREAD upsetting.

The substantive issue here is BLACK PRIORITY in little Britannica to which evidence and references have been laid out for you to mull over. Not inglish grammar. Twit.

Do you know what you are?

Ultimately you are a peasant-serf, turned factory-slave turned incidental beneficiary of your masters’ nefarious grip on the world economic system living in a bubble of manufactured ignorance:

Everyday your corporate “news” channels feed your stupid lazy eyes with negative images of Africa and black people worldwide in order to keep you grateful for being at least a well-fed (junk food mind you) whitey living in a civilization. It is a well known fact that you people need the “other” to be in conditions of desparation and depravity just for you to feel real. Its difficult to come up with a word or expression that can sum up such a sorry psycopathology. This is why I laugh at liberals who say “I am not racist”. They are just jiving themselves. We watch their actual actions and they reveal themselves every time: Even these nice people need to be doing nice things to people who are down-and when the latter grow wings? Ha!

The fact that you have been here for days albeit with an arrogant posture shows us that your white machine lacks something. Open your heart and blast delusions away.May save you yet.

Perhaps you did not read me well as there appears to be a typo. I meant to say that you are just a cog in the wheels run by your nefarious leaders-many who know exactly what Jahdey is saying but would never reveal it to peepsqueaks like you. How will it serve their purpose of domination, acquisition, easy living without reciprocity if ALL BLACK PEOPLE KNEW THESE FACTS? It may even make the more reasonable hoi polloi of your “civilization” uncomfortable in supporting this sham. Truth is power you see.

Stephen Irish is at least trying though he is quite feeble now after undergoing the first real lessons in British history since he was born. It will take time. He now knows that he has a choice to be an authentic fool (faced with facts and truth, ignores it all) or a real truth seeker. So far, it has been fairly easy to classify you…

You said:”It is a well known fact that you people need the “other” to be in conditions of desparation and depravity just for you to feel real. Its difficult to come up with a word or expression that can sum up such a sorry psycopathology.”

In German the word is Schadenfreude. Meaning, being gleeful over the misfortune of others.

I am very much against all the Kissinger types and the nefarious leaders of the organization “with secrets” that you pointed out to me, (I misunderstood your sentence.). We can both agree on the need to rise above the lies of this cabal.

My resistance to the lies coming from these global bodies is whole-hearted and not in the least bit petty, very many Europeans and others now resist their agenda. Since your agenda is obscure but seems similar, it can seem that you have the same purpose.

The fine detail debated at length between Jahdey and Stephen is of great importance, and I wil study it. It could be supportive of a final conclusion on the debate. If Jahdey’s argument was supported by a clear time frame of when Black people ruled (approximate dates and locations), and by references to indigenous black people in Britain or Ireland by early visitors such as Julius Caesar, or the Norman invaders, or by the Pope, or early missionaries then he would have a strong case. The absence of such a clear time frame or the references by reputedly white authorities (who would definitely comment on a Black nation in Britain) would be harmful to Jahdey’s argument.

I can’t even guess how early association with the ancient British or Irish promotes modern Ethiopian interests or Rastafarian culture. Once the bigger picture is clarified, then all the fine detail can be put in place.

One of the oldest texts composed in Ireland is the Leabhar Gabhla, the Book of Invasions. It tells a semi-mythical history of the waves of people who settled in Ireland in earliest times. It says the first settlers to arrive in Ireland were a small dark people called the Fir Bolg, followed by a magical super-race called the Tuatha de Danaan (the people of the goddess Dana).

The second wave: The Celts were not one people. Keltoi was the name the Greeks and the Romans used to describe a series of barbaric tribes they encountered in Europe. They were different people with different origins. Among them were dark skinned Celts one would describe as Moors or today’s Africans. They settled in Ireland with other types of Celts and Germanic peoples.

The third wave: This was during the period of Christianization of Ireland. The first Christians to successfully settle Ireland came from Ethiopia and Egypt. The established the first fellowships, built the first monasteries, established the now defunct Irish Othordox Church. That is part of why you have so many Black Saints in Irish Christianity.

The fourth wave came with the invasion of Ireland and Wales by the Vikings and the Danes, I believe in the 8th, 9th and 10 century AD. These Vikings and Danes were described as coming in two shades, black Dubhgall, and pale skin the Fingall.

Then the Moors came. Moorish Christians settled on the Island from Spain during the 7th to the 14th century. Some hid out there when their Spanish Empire fell. Recall that in Spain there was Jewish, Muslim and Christian Moors.

Some Normans who immigrated to the Island might have been Black people. At least I know that in Scotland, certain families like the Douglass claim to have migrated from Normandy via England. It is worth noting that the Douglass tribe of Scotland was renowned for their dark skin, i.e. “the black Douglass”.

So far so good that is what I have. I know that by the 14 century the English and Scottish crown were pressuring Irelaand. By the 15 century, they were carrying out land confiscation, slave raiding, slave/serf plantations and slave trading in Ireland. This accelerated in the 16th and 18th century even to the annexation of Ireland.

The 19th century was marked by massive expulsion of the Irish people from the land via the use of biological warfare known today as the Irish famine caused by the Irish potato blight.

All these centuries there was a Germanization policy as well. To bleach out the black Irish, or kill them or slave them, was the basis of various Royal policies. Finally, after years of miscegenation, brainwashing and divide and rule, in the late 19th century the left over Irish was admitted into the so-called “white race” created in the 17th century via racist laws.

With this admission they were given so-called white privileges, like blue collar jobs, police, fire-fighting, factory working in the Americas i.e. Canada and the United States. This supposedly was an improvement from the wretchedness they had known under the British misrule back home.

They were told they had to protect their newly won rights and privileges. Their job was to check the other Moors now known as the so-called black people or Negroes as designated in the Negro Code Slave Laws of the 17 century Americas.

The sad part of the story was that they took this new role too seriously. They barely knew better, after centuries of so much miseducation. They became the most avid defenders of the racist policies of their masters. Their price was a bowl of porridge and some crumbs of bread from the master’s table. While they and their brethren suffer the consequences of their own racist selfish presumptions and self-sabotage. It is now a generational illness.

American president John F Kennedy openly warned the American people about the secret organization ruling and ruining the leading civilized nation of the world, he was the only president to ever do so, it was unheard of for a president to betray this unholy cabal, he was Catholic and not a willing member of the organization “with secrets”. He was working to expose the secret government of America when he was assinated. He was Irish, he actively ended segregation for Blacks. The Irish are very well represented in the flotillas to free Palestinians from Zionist captivity, and in very many other projects to free trapped people all over the world, so plenty of good and plenty of bad.

Your idea that the English government purposely killed nearly a million Irish people by starvation is very interesting, supported by the fact that no significant potatoe famine happened in Britain at the same time. You idea is challenged by the fact that France too had famine at this time, whether potatoes also failed I don’t yet know. Potatoe blight often occurs naturally, but nowadays it doesn’t spread far, due to modern farm sprays.