Well, I have heard the AD700...and the HTF600...and the CitiScape Uptown...and a vintage Sansui SS-20. That's about it for "normal" cans. No Sennheisers, Beyerdynamics, AKGs, Denons, or Ultrasones to be found there. You know, the kind of headphones people talk about all the time. Rarely does anyone talk about Stax unless it's the flagship Omega-series models.

I just happened to be in a circumstance where instead of stepping up to AD900s or DT880s like I was originally thinking, I suddenly saw this Stax Lambda setup at a price I could afford, recalled the people in a PC gaming thread praising it for its gaming prowess, and the rest is history. Haven't really felt the need to buy more headphones since, other than sheer curiosity. Curiosity that often left me disappointed, at that.

Most people jump into electrostatics very late in their headphone journey, if they choose to do so at all. I did so very early, and that means I don't have any common frames of reference to compare to the Stax setups I've heard.

I only know what one of those is. I have no clue about the rest, lol. Haha, right. Well, I shall remember that. Lucky you for getting into it so early. How are they for music? Totally understand. Yeah, you really don't. I'll be interested to see how you respond to conventional headphones, lol.

Well, my 2011 mixamp and Annies arrived today. The Pot on the mixamp seems a bit stiff, although that might be due to the below freezing temperature outside. I'm going to let it sit for a minute before I use it. In fact, I think 5 mins after touching it for the first time, it loosened up a bit.

If you really want to audition them then you really just need to try a DH device like a mixamp or tb dss. What you'll get out of the receiver will be better tone controls, absolutely dark noise floor and more power then out of just a mixamp or dss. I recommend the H&K avr-254 or if you have more money to spend then get a Marantz (their lower end receivers don't have DH iirc). I do have a couple issues with the 254 so I have to see if there's a firmware update for it.

I know. There is an update. I'll check out Marantz too I suppose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy

calpis. My problem is that I already have a headphone amp. I wonder if it's safe to hook up an amp to a receiver's hpo. Lol.

In fact, I WANT a receiver now. I'll sell my 5.8 to help fund for one. No reason to have a Mixamp after that. I have the SLYR's mixer for voice chat.

Which one do you have?

Finally, you want one, lol. Wait, so the SLYR mixer does what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy

I don't have a problemn with the SLYR's mixer. And I chat almost never anyways, lol. Literally, maybe once a year. XD

Even using the SLYR, I had chat turned off. I just want DH with a black background.

BTW, those with Q701s...
Might be worth getting the pads, though not sure if it will turn them into Annies without the comfortable headband.

Also, put my 5.8 up for sale.

U must not play games that rely on chat. I want the same thing, but I gotta be able to hear my teammates talking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burritoboy9984

When I used the SLYR's mixer I noticed some strange background noises while dead silent. Also, I would strongly suggest getting a Marantz opposed to HK. I had a 247 with the common HDMI issue (that is how I ended up with the 3600, but it had Harman Headphone and not Dolby Headphone), and from the research I have done it appeared to still be a common issue with the newer 254. Plus IMO D&M Holdings > Harman.

-Erik

Ah, I had no clue. Maybe a firmware upgrade fixes this? What's different with the Marantz as opposed to the HK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by burritoboy9984

Don't spend that much. I picked up a NIB SR5002 off craigslist for $160 about a month ago (guy purchased 2 of them 4 years ago and only used 1). On ebay I've seen a couple go under $150. Go here to see all the ones on ebay, and here you can see how cheap some have gone in the past. You can also look at the SR400x series, they might not have as many HDMI inputs though.

-Erik

NIB?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug

SoAmusing, I have the perfect link for you to test how much you can hear the difference of different compression bitrates, or at least get a general idea. Please check out my new thread next week, I'll post the link to the test on Monday and I would appreciate your testing it out and adding some thoughts.

I prefer my Recon3D's surround processing over SC for just the same reason as you, the reverb feels too unnatural. I was pleased THX TruStudio Pro did surround for me without extra reverb.

Mad, Nameless, Chico, everyone,
I've finally made the beginnings of my guide! I had to take first and second post quickly so that it'll follow the format I'm intending, so it's unfinished right now, but check it out sometime! I'll flesh out the wording, but maybe not tonight as my girlfriend wants me to come over.

You really think I would reply recommending you get the SR5001/2 if it didn't have DH? Come on now, lol... Plus, D&M typically uses better DAC's and their power supplies are MUCH stronger than the competitions.

Quite often the original recording or CD master is so shoddy that a little bit more/less compression would make even less of a difference. Personally I can't tell the difference between FLAC and 320kbps rips from the same source material (or even 192kbps most of the time, depends on genre and the particular recording).

I still rip all my CD to FLAC tho, it's the principle of the thing, plus it just makes sense as a way to future proof my collection. 200 or so CD take up less than 50GB anyway, and I can reconvert the whole shebang at any point without taking a hit in quality.

I do maintain a separate library with the whole thing converted to 192 mp3 so sync'ing is easier, Media Monkey's library and filter tools make it easy to keep it all straight. I still buy CD for artists/bands I really like, tho I've bought less lately (and more mp3 singles).

Amazon's new Autorip deal might spur me to buy more discs tho, since you get the best of both worlds... A disc you can rip to lossless later and the instant gratification of having your music on their cloud which you can easily steam and/or download to anything.
Couldn't you just go from the receiver's RCA out to the amp? Or would the receiver not let you use any headphone modes at that point?

I doubt you'd harm anything going from a receiver's headphone output (which is often mediocre) to the hp amp, you'd just run into the same kind of situation as running a hp amp from a laptop's hp jack etc.

Not very different than going from Mixamp to hp amp, not ideal but ehh...

The receiver's hpo would be better than the Mixamp's, which is what I have always used. My concern is where to place the volume knob on the receiver when attaching my Compass 2. A receiver will have much more power/volume, and I wanna be able to feed the compass 2 the right amount. Basically line level. I can guarantee line level by maxing the receiver out, but I know it wouldn't be necessary.

The good thing is the HE400 and AKGs are immune to output impedances, so I may not need my Compass 2 when gaming.

I can pretty much guarantee that RCA out wont have Dolby Headphone. That would be tied to the headphone jack.

HPO? Headphone orifice? lol. What is all this about impedances? I'm confused. Why is it immune? I 2nd the RCA comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessPFG

So the Marantz SR5001 and SR5002 have DH? Great, that means I can shop for receivers other than the Harmon Kardon AVR 254 and AVR 354 when the time comes!

I actually wouldn't mind seeing an A/V receiver shootout here in this thread. May be a bit overkill for headphone processors, but it's also the only way to get virtual surround out of HDMI sources short of the Smyth Realiser (and that only takes LPCM).

Yeah, I'm really glad to know this as well. I'd like to the same. Yup, that last bit is what is important to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicolom

x2

Otherwise how will I know if the receiver is worth it and sounds any better than the mixamp + headphone amp setup!!

I'm curious as well!

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicolom

So it's 2013 and there still aren't any devices that take DD 5.1 via optical or HDMI, encode it into DH stereo via a decent DAC, then output it via RCAs at line level, 3.5mm line out, or even via RCA preamp out?

It seems like that would be ideal if you already have an external headphone amp.

Using a full receiver just to encode DH (via the receivers DAC) and get a little cleaner signal out of the HP jack to source to another headphone amp seems silly.

There aren't any tiny receiver like devices that take HDMI (or just optical), encode DH via the DAC, and then output the signal by means of something other than a direct HP jack (RCA or 3.5mm line out)?

Using the reciever's HP jack directly to the headphone makes sense, but I don't know squat about how receivers HP jacks sound. I just know people complain about the high output impedances on them...

So, use the receiver first, then send it out to the amp? I'm thinking 6.33mm adapter to 3.5mm female, then just run a 3.5mm male to male cord? It does seem silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. Thats why id use my external amp, so it can stabilize the frequency response, and feed it to the headphone with its lower output impedance.

I don't understand this. Help?

Quote:

Originally Posted by calpis

LOL... I was off doing some DIY stuff and this happens.

I've connected my mstage to my avr247 before. I set the 247 to -5db to 0db and then adjust the rest on the mstage. When I'm playing purely out of hp jack on the receiver, I have it set from anywhere between -15db to -25db depending on which headphone and if I'm chatting with a mic directly hooked up to the controller. To my knowledge 0db is what sound producers master their audio at, I saw this on a youtube video somewhere.

tbh, I couldn't really tell if there was a difference adding the mstage into the mix. Then again, I wasn't really seriously trying to find any difference but more for schiits and giggles.

Nicee, lol. Glad to hear you didn't really hear a difference, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug

D'aw, this is ridiculously cute. Dunno how I missed it earlier.
I don't know what output impedance problems are supposed to sound like, but I've had squat problems using my Yamaha's headphone-out with with either my Q701 (62 Ohms) or my AD700 (32 Ohms). I'm skeptical. Where did the theory start, because I would BET it started with the cost-compromised receivers bundled in HTIB sets, where almost all the parts are just slapped together and given a somewhat pretty face on the outside.

I will be opening this topic for debate on my thread soon, might be a good chance to see if there is a scientific basis for impedance "synergy" or not

Also, your method of finding the line-out volume sounds logical and could be veeeery helpful to people. Do you mind if I quote your post in a later article? You'd be credited, of course.

I agreeee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathDealer623

Pioneer's Headphone Surround is good too. I've gamed w/ it for past few years as well as DH and I have no problems with it.

FYI... THE GAME CHANGER MAYBE THE NEW DTS HEADPHONE X SHOWN @ CES THIS YEAR. Very good impressions of it and will come out at end of year.

How is it compared to DH? I can't wait till December 2013 though, lol. Interested nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug

That sounds very promising. Especially since the timing comes very close to the impending Steam Box (might be called the Piston?), a small-sized PC built expressly to run games from Valve's Steam store. If the Steam box has headphone surround and people take notice (and it's not too hard to enable in games), it would be a major competitive advantage among all the other stuff PCs do better versus the next-gen consoles. Especially since there is speculation that there won't be too much graphically to set any one console apart from another.

Just.
ONE.
Console.
Has.
To.
Do.
It!

This is very relevant to the current topic on my thread... Just saying.

Also, SoAmusing's post kinda rubs me the wrong way. Seems to misrepresent stuff, very black-and-white. I hope I don't regret saying so in the morning, but maybe... Relax, a little? You may wish you hadn't spent so much money and worry, some day. Remember, they're just first world problems

That seems pretty sweet (the box)! What's up with the specs on the box though? Let me try to rub the other way then, lol. I can see that, but let me explain. I'm just serious about audio. Very serious. I haven't spent much money or worried a lot. It's a hobby of sorts now.

Explanations

2. Silent Cinema - Quite reverby and distorts the sound a bit much for me. Explanation - I've used it myself. Others can attest to this.

3. Thx TruStudio - Can only use 5.1 DD and others have reported the mixamp being better. Explanation - Lossless isn't compressed. Best SQ is a must for me. MLE said the Recond3D was 75% that of the Mixamp.

4. CMSS-3D - N/A - See 8. No explanation Needed

5. Random Company's Surround Sound

6. Sony's Implementation - It's very popular, and if it was the best, everyone would use it. Explanation - It's the truth? It's logic.

7. MyEars - N/A - See 8. Plus I've heard it sounds crap. Explanation - The company never answered my emails, talked about having a console version of this 2 or 3 years ago (never came out), and MLE mentioned it was crap.

9. Smyth Realizer - Just totally unrealistic and too expensive for me. Explanation - I forget the whole setup process, but it's just too much for me. It's wayy expensive. Not trying to bash it. It's amazing, but at what cost? It's still 7.1 in the end.

10. DSS - Mixamp is a better version of this. Explanation - Not my words, MLE's. They're both DH devices.

11. DSS2 - No clue. It only simulates 4 speakers, and if I wanted chat, I'd have to get a Steelseries audio mixer which would introduce hiss on top of whatever the DSS2 is adding and lower overall SQ a little. I'd say other techs are better, plus, I just don't like TB, too mainstream. Explanation - It's the truth again. I say that other techs are better because it's TB. I look at their track record. I've also found, in life, most mainstream products aren't the best. I suppose this is a bit biased. You can get me on this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug

^Why am I getting a sense of déjà vu... did you already write that the Phoebus uses Dolby home theater? Version 4?

I still think the best thing is more samples so people can test out what kind of processing works best for them, and I really want to help in my own small way by producing my own samples. What if Dolby Headphone doesn't turn out to be all that and a box of raisins for you guys? Maybe that's what returns are for, but still... Good length and quality samples would be much easier. I'm not really sure I've ruled out CMSS-3D yet either, I just didn't like the few samples (and I'm treble-scared).

*sigh* this is good discussion, I really wish some of it was on my mini-guide before I post a new topic around Monday. Some day it will reach subscriber critical mass, and it will almost write itself, for now I just gotta be patient. I purposefully started with headphone surround, because people ask about it yet don't usually have much need to add to the explanation, and I think I'll be able to talk to myself for a while. I don't want to steal from this thread (I'm subscribed to a bunch of threads myself), I just want to archive resources. Well, I think I might also miss writing articles, heh

I agree. That would be lovely if you could do that. Hahaha, all that and a box of raisins. Never heard that before. I love it. Then we move on to the next best thing? It sure is. I hope you receive all the fame and fortune u wish :) It'll happen. An all in one thread would be nice.

The DTS Headphone:X experience first requires surround content to be encoded as a DTS-HD bitstream, with the room information embedded in the stream. Next, DTS Headphone:X (embedded on a PC, tablet or phone) calibrates the headphones. Finally, the reference data is decoded and post-processing enhancement is employed to deliver a truly amazing, home theater quality surround sound experience over headphones

interesting

Interesting indeed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug

JHalf,
Can I quote your post in my thread about surround audio?

I'm a little tired, so I'll be brief (For Once!). If you have a Marantz, could you use a graphics card with HDMI out? My motherboard has HDMI. USB dongles can add HDMI. HD my eye.

LOL. A dongle? Just no.. I have the same question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhalf

This is how I understand it too. I was going more along the lines of using the DH from a sound card like a DGX, then just using any old receiver/DAC with an HDMI input to convert it to stereo.

Although I guess what you said would be easier, wonder if the Marantz receiver can output the DH through an RCA out. Then you could have could theoretically have Video card- HDMI out- Marantz receiver- headphone amp (For synergy)- headphone.

It would be interesting to know if the DH sound changes with different inputs into the receiver. (Stereo, or legit 5.1) I still can't find out if DH uses a real 5.1 signal or not, but I would guess that the marantz receiver would tell you its giving you DH regardless of the input you send it.

Ohh, duh, DGX doesn't use DH. I'm sorry. I need to eat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug

Define a "real" 5.1 signal? The Mixamp, turtle beach DSS, and Tritton ax720 unit all function by receiving DDL 5.1 audio sent over optical, inside where the unit processes that 5.1 with DH into stereo with the virtual surround effect, then the unit does DAC, Amp, export through headphone jack. DSS2 and Recon3D also use the 5.1 DDL signal, but use their own processing to produce a similar result. On a receiver hooked up to a DVD player or Blu-Ray disc, the disc player sends the 5.1 or 7.1 channels of audio and video through optical (and whatever video-out) or both through HDMI to the receiver, the receiver uses DH again to convert the multi-channel audio to stereo with the surround effect, DAC, amp, e-jack't the signal. A console --> reciever setup is exacly the same. I don't see why a computer couldn't do the same to a receiver and suddenly DH couldn't "use a real 5.1 signal" and do the rest.

If you want RCA out, couldn't you just use a 3.5mm to RCA cable?

If you don't like the surround processing or amp of a receiver, seems strange to use the receiver at all just for it's DAC.

I know I'm tired, but I just got pretty confused.

I think I get the whole purpose of a DAC now. We can only hear analog? lol. I don't see why not either. That's a good question. Yeah, that would seem to be a waste of money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy

Wow, so I sent the package WITHOUT the HE-400 cable...

In a mad rush, I drove back to the mail service (Pakmail) and told him to get my package. Thank god they hadn't picked it up yet.

Been a long night.

Just curious, why do you use Pakmail? Haha, oh my. Close one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhalf

Okay, so you have confirmed that DH does infact use an encoded 5.1 signal. That was what i was asking, and not sure if true. I have also suspected that if you give the marantz receiver a stereo signal it would try to use dolby pro logic give you a (not as good) DH signal.

The benefit to using the marantz receiver as apposed to a DAC, is that it is the same price as a cheap soundcard + DAC. Plus it gives you options to hook all kinds of other stuff up to it, Bookshelf speakers, whatever.

Its also unique to me because my nice home theater system using an Onkyo 806 receiver is setup in my living room, where my computer rig is also setup. I am currently using a 35' long HDMI cable from my computer to the onkyo receiver for when i want to listen to, or display content on my nice home theater setup. if i then put a Marantz receiver on my desk I could use its HDMI switch to go to both receivers (My 570 GTX only has 1 HDMI out).

Ideally I am trying to find the best solution for my computers headphone setup. it originally involved DGX->DAC->M-Stage->Annies, but the DAC is tricky because there arent any decent AC power, with optical input units I can find in my price range. But if the receiver could give me the DH and DAC through my video cards HDMI, then I could replace those things with it.

Im sure half of what I'm saying doesnt make sense, Im just throwing out random thoughts.

I don't think so. PCM will work with DH I believe. Ask Nameless. Oh my goodness, why sure much in the line? Why not just use a receiver and headphones?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug

Do I make sense? Lol. I should eat something.

If the DGX or similarly priced soundcard has a headphone jack, can I suggest you at least try DGX->M-Stage->Annies before you buy a DAC? I'm only trying to be a friend and save you a few hundred bucks. If you haven't bought an M-Stage yet, yet you desire the option of bookshelf speaker alternatives, I would suggest you instead buy an integrated amp like the Audiogon N22, for example. It's like a receiver without the FM receiver, and more care spent (according to the mfr) on the headphone components than on a typical receiver.

I am again ignoring source switching and stuff from receivers, because in your case you want to connect one source to two outputs... receivers ALSO usually just have one HDMI out.

Mad,
We should sleep. Not together, but probably at the same time. My iPad's onscreen keyboard has begun to appear to have iridescent purple and green hues to it. But first, I must call a lady at a hotel to ask if I can work for her as an audio/video assistant, then I'll make a sandwich. Toasted roast beef with melted Brie cheese. Mmmmh.

I should eat too. Why soundcard and amp? Power? What is the purpose of a DAC? LOL (about you and Mad). That made it weird :P Silly Apple products. Hope you get the job! Sounds delicious though :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by calpis

Okay, info dump time. This is how I have my PC connected to my H&K avr254. First of all, I have 3 different audio outputs connected to my computer: Asus xonar u1 to Matrix Mstage, Onboard stereo jack to Mirage omni directional ipod speaker dock, and GTX550ti to Harman Kardon AVR254. Each setup has a different purpose and I switch between them using this program for windows that stays in the icon tray area.

First here are the wire connections: DVI-1 of my gtx550 to DVI port on my monitor. DVI-2/HDMI-Mini of my gtx550 to HDMI-IN on my receiver. HDMI-OUT of my receiver to HDMI-IN of my monitor.

I have it setup this way so I can still use my PC without having to have my receiver always be on.

Now here's how I have it setup in windows 7:

Enable 2nd extended monitor in the nvidia control panel. Turn on the receiver. Control Panel>Sound and set the receiver as the primary sound device. Make sure under "configure speakers" when you right click on the receiver is set to either 5.1 or 7.1. Boom audio.

If you don't enable the 2nd monitor then the hdcp chain isn't complete and you won't get any audio. When I turn off the receiver, the receiver no longer appears in the sound devices.

Well, then a graphics card will work with a receiver with sound? I always wondered this. That's a nice setup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhalf

Thats awesome, And I will def try the DGX-Mstage-Annies. The M Stage is already bought.

The thought about the receiver is that i could do GTX570 HDMI Out -> marantz receiver < M Stage-> Annies

HDMI Out-> Onkyo Receiver-> Home Theater Content

I like that setup, but will it work (the one with the graphics card)? Why have a receiver and M-Stage?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy

I do not know where my head is at today... though it's probably in my car. It won't start, had to borrow my roomie's for two days. Sigh... anyways, I fixed the issue. The HE-400 is completely on it's way.

Where's your head at? Ever heard that song? You just made me think about it, lol. Lara Croft :P Gonna listen to it nao. It's been so long. This song rocks :D

I don't know what output impedance problems are supposed to sound like, but I've had squat problems using my Yamaha's headphone-out with with either my Q701 (62 Ohms) or my AD700 (32 Ohms). I'm skeptical. Where did the theory start, because I would BET it started with the cost-compromised receivers bundled in HTIB sets, where almost all the parts are just slapped together and given a somewhat pretty face on the outside.

I will be opening this topic for debate on my thread soon, might be a good chance to see if there is a scientific basis for impedance "synergy" or not

A lot of receivers tend to have obnoxiously high output impedance on the headphone out but that doesn't mean they all do tho, and a lot of people with a high output impedance amp and a low impedance headphone may simply not notice or not mind the effect it has (on bass particularly).

It's very much a case of YMMV, but something to be aware of if you're looking to drive a pair of headphones optimally or if you're looking to compare them across different sources/amps.

If the DGX or similarly priced soundcard has a headphone jack, can I suggest you at least try DGX->M-Stage->Annies before you buy a DAC? I'm only trying to be a friend and save you a few hundred bucks. If you haven't bought an M-Stage yet, yet you desire the option of bookshelf speaker alternatives, I would suggest you instead buy an integrated amp like the Audiogon N22, for example. It's like a receiver without the FM receiver, and more care spent (according to the mfr) on the headphone components than on a typical receiver.

I am again ignoring source switching and stuff from receivers, because in your case you want to connect one source to two outputs... receivers ALSO usually just have one HDMI out.

I think trying out the M-stage straight from his Phoebus or a DGX first makes a lot of sense... They have a pretty decent DAC, unless you're spending a few hundred bucks on a discrete DAC you might not reap any benefit from having another device in the chain.

I'm quite happy with my STX, tho I've been eyeing something like the N22 to power a pair of spare Infinity bookshelves I have and simultaneously drive some of my lower impedance headphones (possibly better than the 10 ohm output STX can).

I don't really use my other hp much at my desk tho, the M-80 occasionally if the neighbors are having a party... But that might change if I splurge on the X1 later in the year, been for an alternative to my Beyers, possibly something that would be fun for movie watching.Edited by Impulse - 1/18/13 at 6:27pm