As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.

I'm not going to argue with any of that and it's exactly why I've been on the horns of a dilemma for years. I've always believed, both when desperate to be shot of the mad Frenchman and now when desperate to see the back of the parasitic American, that the only real weapon we fans have, is a financial one. So, year in, year out, I've been in mental turmoil , knowing that I should send a strongly worded letter, telling them where to stick their renewal, but also finding it impossible to sever the ST link that I've had for so long. Maybe it's irrational and I don't intend to sound in any way superior to supporters without a ST, but having one really makes you feel part of the Club. However, truth be told, it's not particularly a Club that I any longer wish to be a part of, but the connection still runs deep and is beyond rationale. I also understand that a ST renewal is in some way an endorsement of how the Club is being run.

You're right that part of it was dreading the idea of giving it up and then seeing Wenger leave almost immediately and a brave new world dawning, with me no longer the owner of a ST. I fully appreciate that managerial change will now only have limited impact, because the scourge of our Club is Stan Kroenke (I can't bring myself to call it his Club, which, whether we like it or not, it fucking well is ), so the fear of missing out on a rejuvenated team and club should be removed from my thinking. However, that was always the smaller part of the matter. The main issue was having to sever a visceral connection. Fuck knows, maybe it's time.

Anyway SK, thanks for fueling my perceptions of myself as a hypocrite !

I fully understand how you feel (ugh sound like a politician with that line).

Maybe I'm at 'stage 5' now and your still 'stage 4', as in I really am at the point of feeling almost no affection for the club because of what it has become, I just want him out whatever the cost now, because I feel even with a best case scenario under KSE we'll only be challenging for 4th place and that really is head in the clouds bs optimism.

From where we're starting, thanks to the mess that SFB was allowed to make, it will take us at least 5 years to get to that point and with the limited budget, with more money still pouring into other PL clubs, I think it is unlikely we'll get there, because even if we do a 'reasonable' job in fixing the issues we have, we're not factoring in the likes of Newcastle and who knows who else being bought out by much more ambitious owners and improving themselves, which is actually happening already whilst we stand still.

I guess as things stand we might as well just buy the best British players we can from the lower leagues and give our own youth a chance, I really can't stand anymore second rate Swiss or German rubbish, and if that also makes me a racist I don't give a f*ck.

You know what Wilko, I rented my ST out for 4 seasons on the trot and each time it was a different taker. No one wanted it for more than one season....that says it all. Couldn’t find anyone to rent it for the season just finished, so resorted to selling individual games. Probably only sold about half and I actually went only once !

If someone had told me 15 years ago that I could end up feeling this detached and almost indifferent to the Arsenal, I’d have told them they were nuts. As Herd says in his post, I’ve been feeling increasingly like this for a good 10 years.

And as DB says, it’s that sense loss, from something that was a part of your very being, that is worst of all.

Look I don't mean to cause offence here but why rent it out?, just give it up, I really don't get it, the demand is dropping off a cliff and soon you will be able to pick one up easy peasy if you really want one, you are just giving KSE money they don't deserve, let it stay empty and unpaid on top.

They've been using fear tactics for years now making out how big the waiting list is etc., it was bs then and it is even more bs now, does anyone really believe people are queuing up round the block to see more Europa league and midtable football?, don't make me laugh!.

I'm not going to argue with any of that and it's exactly why I've been on the horns of a dilemma for years. I've always believed, both when desperate to be shot of the mad Frenchman and now when desperate to see the back of the parasitic American, that the only real weapon we fans have, is a financial one. So, year in, year out, I've been in mental turmoil , knowing that I should send a strongly worded letter, telling them where to stick their renewal, but also finding it impossible to sever the ST link that I've had for so long. Maybe it's irrational and I don't intend to sound in any way superior to supporters without a ST, but having one really makes you feel part of the Club. However, truth be told, it's not particularly a Club that I any longer wish to be a part of, but the connection still runs deep and is beyond rationale. I also understand that a ST renewal is in some way an endorsement of how the Club is being run.

You're right that part of it was dreading the idea of giving it up and then seeing Wenger leave almost immediately and a brave new world dawning, with me no longer the owner of a ST. I fully appreciate that managerial change will now only have limited impact, because the scourge of our Club is Stan Kroenke (I can't bring myself to call it his Club, which, whether we like it or not, it fucking well is ), so the fear of missing out on a rejuvenated team and club should be removed from my thinking. However, that was always the smaller part of the matter. The main issue was having to sever a visceral connection. Fuck knows, maybe it's time.

Anyway SK, thanks for fueling my perceptions of myself as a hypocrite !

Retro i can totally relate to this as i've been through the same dilemma. But the club fucked me off big time some years ago and i gave up my S/T as a result. It was a tough decision but I've no regrets especially as the club has no interest in it's hard core support base. It's like a failed marriage and i'm glad i'm out of it and got my life back.

I'll always support the club but it's on my terms now and not theirs. It's your decision of course but for me giving up my S/T was a cathartic moment and i'm happier for it.

Guessing everyone's seen the video of Giroud on the coach mugging us off. Bellend.

The club is almost unrecognisable from what it used to be when I was a child, both literally in terms of badge and ground but in everything deeper. Bit off topic, but one of the worst things is how many players of ours have gone to domestic rivals. The only one I can remember in the 90s off the top of my head is Petit going to Chelsea, and that was before their Russian money. Obviously ecstatic that Liverpool beat the shit last night, but how many players in the past decade plus have joined a traditional rival and won trophies there?

Cole won trophy after trophy with the plastic club, Fabregas won the league twice and a few other cups at the same Russian small club, van Persie won the league, Nasri won two leagues, Toure won a few trophies, Clichy, Sagna (maybe?), Giroud's now done it. Did Bentley win the league cup with the scum as well? That's on top of Adebayor, Sanchez, Gallas and whoever else played for our rivals. Didn't Stuart Taylor even do it as well? Ramsey was favouring a move to Liverpool as well, if he was to stay in England.

It used to be taboo for a player to join a domestic rival. Could you imagine if one of our 02 double winners or a legend went to Man Utd during that 97-04 era? Everyone would have harped on about the taboo of moving to a rival, media and pundits included. Now, no-one seems to care when a player joins a clubs hated rival because it happens so often.

There were even our own fans congratulating van Persie when he won the league, and backing them over Man City. The same Man Utd who, during our massive rivalry from 97-04, had the media on their side whenever it was Vieira vs Keane, it was good old hard everyman Keane, soft foreigner Vieira and his diving teammates. The same club and manager who used Mike RIley (*word censored*) to fuck up our unbeaten run on game fifty and their *word censored*, glory hunter fans had the audacity to sing "same old Arsenal, always cheating" in the same game? All the pundits seemed to forget all of that and lapped up van Persie joining them when it happened.

Fanatik: #AFC have placed Özil on to-sell list and the last straw was the German telling Unai Emery repeatedly during the Europa League final against Chelsea ‘You are not a coach’https://t.co/Gwq6eAmw4W

Fanatik: #AFC have placed Özil on to-sell list and the last straw was the German telling Unai Emery repeatedly during the Europa League final against Chelsea ‘You are not a coach’https://t.co/Gwq6eAmw4W

IF TRUE, then he shouldn't play another game for the club again - I fully expect him to refuse to leave, or at least play hardball and demand we pay up the remainder of his contract, but I would rather stick up down with the academy teams and keep him aware from the senior squad. If someone like TA6/Bergkamp/PV4 had a pop at emery like that I would respect their opinion and the right to voice it, but that c.unt has not earned the right to question anybody imo

Apologies if this has already been posted, Ozil mouthing off to emery. I'm sure he had a few of th e bench sitting next to him, so he's completely disrespectful. Will send a terrible sign to the rest of the squad if he gets away with this shit. To be honest he already has taken the piss https://www.101greatgoals.com/news/turk ... s-chelsea/

Guessing everyone's seen the video of Giroud on the coach mugging us off. Bellend.

The club is almost unrecognisable from what it used to be when I was a child, both literally in terms of badge and ground but in everything deeper. Bit off topic, but one of the worst things is how many players of ours have gone to domestic rivals. The only one I can remember in the 90s off the top of my head is Petit going to Chelsea, and that was before their Russian money. Obviously ecstatic that Liverpool beat the shit last night, but how many players in the past decade plus have joined a traditional rival and won trophies there?

Cole won trophy after trophy with the plastic club, Fabregas won the league twice and a few other cups at the same Russian small club, van Persie won the league, Nasri won two leagues, Toure won a few trophies, Clichy, Sagna (maybe?), Giroud's now done it. Did Bentley win the league cup with the scum as well? That's on top of Adebayor, Sanchez, Gallas and whoever else played for our rivals. Didn't Stuart Taylor even do it as well? Ramsey was favouring a move to Liverpool as well, if he was to stay in England.

It used to be taboo for a player to join a domestic rival. Could you imagine if one of our 02 double winners or a legend went to Man Utd during that 97-04 era? Everyone would have harped on about the taboo of moving to a rival, media and pundits included. Now, no-one seems to care when a player joins a clubs hated rival because it happens so often.

There were even our own fans congratulating van Persie when he won the league, and backing them over Man City. The same Man Utd who, during our massive rivalry from 97-04, had the media on their side whenever it was Vieira vs Keane, it was good old hard everyman Keane, soft foreigner Vieira and his diving teammates. The same club and manager who used Mike RIley (*word censored*) to fuck up our unbeaten run on game fifty and their *word censored*, glory hunter fans had the audacity to sing "same old Arsenal, always cheating" in the same game? All the pundits seemed to forget all of that and lapped up van Persie joining them when it happened.

In fairness Kennedy went to the Victims from the double side of 71, and Frank Stapleton went to Manure in the early 80s. Club loyaltys gone out of the window so more players swopping teams, our sales have been bad for many years, not solely recently