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Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

I just want to thank you folks and whoever conceived this bulletin board, because I'm seeing really nice progress and piecing it all together here!
Here's where we're at this a.m.:[attachment=0:30top0h0]SwampProgress_Sunday.jpg[/attachment:30top0h0]

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

Picture from this a.m., and question.

Sorry if I sound obtuse, but I am getting flak from the pool guy about even asking about CYA "because it's cold, don't need to worry about that" etc. etc. etc. so I do want to make sure I understand (retroactively) why I should have had my CYA level up to 20 ppm when I began (am now adding via sock b/c I backwash too much to add a slurry to filter...slow going with the sock in front of return jet...)

I had called to resked the vacuum because I wanted to follow this board's advice, finish the shocking before adding floc, etc., and updated him on my progress. I may have gotten a little short when he said it was HIS stuff starting to work -- to which I pointed out that FC was ZERO after his pathetic six bags of shock, and that no, I thought it might have more to do with the fact I hauled out 3 more wheelbarrows full of leaves (he was supposed to have done that) and began sustained shocking and filtered 24-7 and backwashed over and over and over again. I then asked him what he had planned to do on Wed. when he got there, ostensibly to vacuum, and had of found it just like it was BEFORE I did all the stuff I did Fri, Sat, Sunday -- what HIS plan had been. His plan had been to vacuum BLIND. I pointed out that with 3 wheelbarrows full of leafs, I didn't think that was an effective strategy.

What I don't get is why these guys are so defensive about it. This guy seemed like a good guy -- I like him personality wise -- and he's been doing this 10+ years. I don't understand why if I can "poogle" (the art of google-ing about pool care ) the solution for a case like this, he can't too. Shouldn't we be partners in this thing?

At any rate, thanks in advance if someone can indulge me so that I'm sure I'm understanding the reasoning and not discombobulating my speed-readings

BTW, here's this a.m.'s pic...she does seem on the road to recovery, so I'd say the proof is in the pudding! Cheers to that![attachment=0ws4elze]swamp_Mon_Apr30.jpg[/attachmentws4elze]

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

Not new money...I had paid straight labor on the first visit, because the condition was too rough to do the opening package. I had also pre-paid a regular opening package. So he "owes" me a vacuum, and some labor still. Since I predict I won't be getting a refund, I'd just as soon have him make a contribution.

He's not actually losing a client per se....his company was the original installer of the pool for the previous owner (before the foreclosed owners); they're well-regarded contractors with knowledge of unusual site conditions, etc., and I'd be inclined to use them on big ticket items like repair and installation/liner replacement etc. in a heartbeat. It's just that I will not give cart blanche in terms of budget , and that I will DIY if I don't get the results I want. I will always be happy to hire in labor for the parts I don't want or have time for -- but I need in essence to be informed enough to direct that process.

My mistake was letting the pool company think I'd just keep writing checks. When someone gives me their word they can do x for $y and then they're WRONG, well, that's where I step in. That said, he was actually invaluable in showing us through the features, steps, what to do, etc. of our equipment and he IS a nice guy -- I just don't think he truly has sufficient experience at remedying this kind of mess ECONOMICALLY. (...Nor the motivation

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

Most pool guy's really don't understand water chemistry. They have been doing the same thing for so long there way is the "Right Way" and questioning them usually results in friction. I work with a bunch of guys who own pool cleaning services on the side and I have asked before about the BBB method and the answers I've gotten are pretty honest and they have said the BBB method works but it is time consuming and I can't make any money once I fix there pool! Upselling shock, algaecide, clarifiers, and flock brings me in allot of money! Peoples laziness is what I want to profit on! Honest but true in many cases! I suggest your pool guy is the same, nice guy but he's sees the end is near and maybe trying to scare you into thinking you can't handle it on your own. Fact is once your pool is balanced correctly, it will require little maintenance! Keep at it, your getting the upper hand YOURSELF!

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

Indeed, I seem to be getting the upper hand. I can now see shadows of silt/debris in the shallow end perhaps opaque was better (just kidding). My test kit hasnt arrived yet, but according to my unreliable spa test strips, I don't appear to have lost any/much FC overnight either. And the pump pressure hasn't risen at all. Mind you, I still have the main drain line closed and can't see bottom of the deepend. On one hand, I'm kind of sorry I canceled the vacuuming Wed. On the other, better to test and be sure. Plus I want to be avail when he does the deep end because I suspect the filter will then need backwash babysitting, once the remaining particulate is stirred up. I also want to make sure I learn to vacuum properly, and what to do if things get clogged or how low I can let the water go when vacuuming to waste. So I'll just treat the previously paid expense as hands on tutorial and labor fee

I suspect I'll have more questions once clean up is finished next week and I am then aiming to stabilize and make the water comfortable. Better go read about borates cheers!

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

It sounds like you are making good progress. There will be a temptation to get very impatient as the last parts of the process often go agonizingly slow. Keep the faith and keep the chlorine in there. I think having the guy vacuum up everything he can get will be a big help.

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

So now that you have the test kit, you should start ignoring the strips and the pool store test results for that matter. Trust your test kit, it is the most accurate method. With that test kit your are now dangerous to those organisms in your pool

Originally Posted by Swampwoman

I do have muriatic acid -- but how will I get ph up while getting TA down?

Since you in the process of shocking, I would not mess with ph (in fact ph measurements are not valid when FC is above 10 ppm).

How much cya did you put in? What was your target? When did you put it in? How much is left in the sock?

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

I put four pounds in a sock in front of the jet by the stairs in the shallow end on sunday to hit an approximate target of 20 for now. Sock does not seem to Have dissolved much more than a quarter or third of that. I've been backwashing 3 times a day even though the pressure is no longer rising... So should I consider putting some cya in the skimmer and skipping the backwash, or just wait til Sunday and see where we're at? I suspect there is some cya in the water, because the chlorine isn't dropping the way it was before (can't tell for sure til am for the overnight FC test).

Thanks in advance or any tips. I'm inclined to agree with your suggestion not to muck with TA or ph at all now until it's all cleaned up -- unless these levels can case some kind of problem - which is the part I don't know about. My principal goal for ths week was to clear it enough to see floor and expedite the breakdown of organic goo. Getting pretty close to that point now.

Sat I will have tine to use leaf gulper in the areas I can see, because I can stick around to babysit/backwash filter. Pool guy vacuums Monday, so had said I would flock Sunday. After that
I suspect it will need a few more vacs, some topping up, etc. So I presume my readings will change accordingly.

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

Sock does not seem to Have dissolved much more than a quarter or third of that.

I usually give my sock a squeeze everytime I go by, it speeds up the process.

Originally Posted by Swampwoman

I've been backwashing 3 times a day even though the pressure is no longer rising.

Only backwash when the pressure goes up 25% from the clean pressure. Sand filters benefit from some debris in the sand to filter more stuff.

Originally Posted by Swampwoman

So should I consider putting some cya in the skimmer and skipping the backwash, or just wait til Sunday and see where we're at? I suspect there is some cya in the water, because the chlorine isn't dropping the way it was before (can't tell for sure til am for the overnight FC test).

If you are able to keep the FC above 10 at all times I would just leave the sock in front of the return for now and give it a an occasional squeeze.

Originally Posted by Swampwoman

I'm inclined to agree with your suggestion not to muck with TA or ph at all now until it's all cleaned up -- unless these levels can case some kind of problem - which is the part I don't know about.

Leave it for now.

Originally Posted by Swampwoman

Sat I will have tine to use leaf gulper in the areas I can see, because I can stick around to babysit/backwash filter.

Get any leaves etc. out a soon as possible, they will just eat up your chlorine that is meant for the algae.

Originally Posted by Swampwoman

Pool guy vacuums Monday, so had said I would flock Sunday.

Flock is pretty much useless until you have killed all the algae. I would not flock at least until your FC and CC pass the shocking criteria (see my sig).

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

Okay, this a.m.,
FC was 10.2 ppm -- from 10.4 ppm last night. The cc is .2.

This means I've passed the ONCL, right?

Also, I CAN SEE THE BOTTOM OF THE DEEPEND WELL ENOUGH TO IDENTIFY A LEAF POLE SOMEONE LOST IN THERE AND CLEARLY SEE MY DRAINS! YAAAAY!

Now what? ; )

My notion of the plan (which may be misguided) is as follow -- please correct me if I'm mistaken:

1. Since neither I nor Pool Guy have an external power vacuum, use Leaf Gulper to pull up the remaining leaves I now see a.s.a.p., but do so when I can be available to backwash frequently.

2. Ok to flock Sunday night for Pool Guy's vacuum Monday

3. Maintain FC levels between now and then at....??? Shock of 10? Lower? Eg, let the level start to drop but keep above 3 ppm? Higher if any CYA starts showing up in tests per the CL to CYA chart???? Somehow I have failed to absorb what to do now...

4. Top up water to get more vacuum-to-waste capacity to keep poolguy working hard on first vacuum

5. Once first major waste vacuum is done, top up water, test, post results, watch cya -- increase cya to 30 - 50 ppm slowly; if needed, reduce TA a bit if still over 180; then aerate, eg. maybe with a fountain, to get PH back up to eventual swim level if the TAs on the high side?

Thanks for any feedback.
For those who like pictures, here's yesterday and today's. Today's was at 6 a.m. b/c I had an early meeting - can't quite see the addl clarity in it but it's there.

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

Originally Posted by Swampwoman

Okay, this a.m.,
FC was 10.2 ppm -- from 10.4 ppm last night. The cc is .2.

This means I've passed the ONCL, right?You've passed the first 2 steps but not the last 1. Last step is "Is the water Crystal Clear"
Also, I CAN SEE THE BOTTOM OF THE DEEPEND WELL ENOUGH TO IDENTIFY A LEAF POLE SOMEONE LOST IN THERE AND CLEARLY SEE MY DRAINS! YAAAAYGet the pole out obviously.
Now what? ; )

My notion of the plan (which may be misguided) is as follow -- please correct me if I'm mistaken:

1. Since neither I nor Pool Guy have an external power vacuum, use Leaf Gulper to pull up the remaining leaves I now see a.s.a.p., but do so when I can be available to backwash frequently.Try to remove with net or Vac. all the debris from the pool.
2. Ok to flock Sunday night for Pool Guy's vacuum MondayI wouldn't waste the money on flock! Your on the home stretch!
3. Maintain FC levels between now and then at....??? Shock of 10? Lower? Eg, let the level start to drop but keep above 3 ppm? Higher if any CYA starts showing up in tests per the CL to CYA chart???? Somehow I have failed to absorb what to do now...
[color=#0000FF]Keep the FC level at shock level until you get Crystal Clear water./color]
4. Top up water to get more vacuum-to-waste capacity to keep poolguy working hard on first vacuum Yes!
5. Once first major waste vacuum is done, top up water, test, post results, watch cya -- increase cya to 30 - 50 ppm slowly; if needed, reduce TA a bit if still over 180; then aerate, eg. maybe with a fountain, to get PH back up to eventual swim level if the TAs on the high side?You got it!
Thanks for any feedback.
For those who like pictures, here's yesterday and today's. Today's was at 6 a.m. b/c I had an early meeting - can't quite see the addl clarity in it but it's there.

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

(Welcome to TFP!)

I would not floc either - you can do this without it.

Here was my pool when we started cleaning it (it only got to this point because it got really warm and I got really sick in February!) and when we finished - the only two things I put in it were CYA and bleach.

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

Cool! I had already bough floc, but I'll save it for next spring or take it back.
The water is clear enough now that I can see detail on the bottom of the deepend. There's a band of silt but not actually many leaves left to get tomorrow.

I fished out my first dead animal today - a mouse who clearly though my water looked lovely and failed to understand shock. My son was flinging frogs out the other night who appear equally fond of the pool. I am thinking that to combo of pool newbie with pool adjacent to forest will be something of an adventure.

To that end, has anyone used the PoolSkim contraption to manage ample debris? And solar blankets -- I lve looking at water, so I don't really want one, but I suspect the gas bill might change my mind about this. Are there worthy alternatives? I'm in Michigan, so we do get wind, which is likely how all those leaves got there in the first place...

Re: Foreclosure swamp and errant pool service?

Good morning. I am on the iPad, so can't upload the pool pic this second, but here are the reading since the big vac, refill, and minor stain brushing/vac last night (pool is really clear now as you will see).

FC 12.6
Cc .6
Ph 7.5
TA 170 ppm (my only guess as to how this got lower was via vacuuming to waste and refills)
Cya -- still at top of tube but is a little cloudy but can still see dot, unless I'm not supposed to be looking so hard. Still a lot of cya in sock I put in front of return a week and three days ago. Four ponds in sock with 20 target.

I plan to keep chlorine high this week to get rid of leaf stains, which have started to disappear with brushing. Did not test last night but added equivalent of 4 ppm chlorine. Will do overnight rest tomorrow.

The ph likely went up due to my having pointed returns upward to see if that plus octagon drove leaf and maple key litter to the skimmer, or if I really might want pool skim and to try liquid cover instead for a spell this summer (realize this is iffy plan, but I am concerned about getting a cover with exceedingly scarce space, odd shape, bad back for lifting and tendency to be the type who will swim when home alone. Aesthetically, I would also love not to have one...but well see just how bad the gas bill is!)

So, what's my best next step -- add the sock to the skimmer to expedite an accurate cya reading in a week, then add another four pounds?

Suggestions welcome.

Also, is it worth attempting to reduce TA, or should I wait and see ph reading at regular chlorine levels?