And yet, we have no right to claim that we know why a disaster like the earthquake in Haiti happened at just that place and at just that moment

That depends.

This exhortation from Scripture should give all of us pause about glib, surface, carnal, fleshy judgments of others:

Luke 19:22 (Amplified Bible) 22He said to the servant, I will judge and condemn you out of your own mouth, you wicked slave! You knew [did you] that I was a stern (hard, severe) man, picking up what I did not lay down, and reaping what I did not sow?

This and other Scriptures indicate that our own judgments and our own words will be the standard by which we will be judged. That should be plenty sobering for most of us to put an extra guard on our mouths and fingers.

John 7:24 (Amplified Bible) 24Be honest in your judgment and do not decide at a glance (superficially and by appearances); but judge fairly and righteously.

Some Believers take some Scriptures on judgment as indicating we are not to judge any situation nor any other believer in any way for any reason. The above verse indicates otherwise.

We are to judge RIGHTEOUSLY. How can we do that apart from Holy Spirit within us IN CONTROL of our biases; in control of our criteria; in control of our perceptions?

John 8:15 (Amplified Bible) 15You [set yourselves up to] judge according to the flesh (by what you see). [You condemn by external, human standards.] I do not [set Myself up to] judge or condemn or sentence anyone.

John 8:15 (The Message)

14-18Jesus replied, "You're right that you only have my word. But you can depend on it being true. I know where I've come from and where I go next. You don't know where I'm from or where I'm headed. You decide according to what you can see and touch. I don't make judgments like that. But even if I did, my judgment would be true because I wouldn't make it out of the narrowness of my experience but in the largeness of the One who sent me, the Father. That fulfills the conditions set down in God's Law: that you can count on the testimony of two witnesses. And that is what you have: You have my word and you have the word of the Father who sent me."

I believe this is a very important Scripture re judging. Even ChristEVEN CHRIST asserted that HE HIMSELFCREATORonly joined the Fathers judgment. EVEN HE did not judge according to surface factors and criteria nor even His own bias as though Hed have one of His own.

I think the magnitude of this point is hard for us to wrap our reality around. It is enormously difficult for us to forsake judging according to surface criteria and to, instead, TUNE IN TO HOLY SPIRIT in a matterUNLESS WE HAVE DOGGEDLY PRACTICED IT UNDER HOLY SPIRITS TUTLEDGE A LONG TIME. And even then we can miss it or get all wound up in our undies about a pet bias or issue and get off kilter.

Romans 2 God Is Kind, but Not Soft 1-2 Those people are on a dark spiral downward. But if you think that leaves you on the high ground where you can point your finger at others, think again. Every time you criticize someone, you condemn yourself. It takes one to know one. Judgmental criticism of others is a well-known way of escaping detection in your own crimes and misdemeanors. But God isn't so easily diverted. He sees right through all such smoke screens and holds you to what you've done.

Romans 14:10 (The Message)

10-12So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I'd say it leaves you looking pretty sillyor worse. Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren't going to improve your position there one bit. Read it for yourself in Scripture:

"As I live and breathe," God says, "every knee will bow before me; Every tongue will tell the honest truth that I and only I am God."

So tend to your knitting. You've got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.

Romans 14:13 (The Message)

13-14 Forget about deciding what's right for each other. Here's what you need to be concerned about: that you don't get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. I'm convincedJesus convinced me!that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.

This passage is certainly a sobering one for anyone addicted to passing out flesh driven, ego driven, self-righteous judgments and criticism like candy. It should be plenty sobering even for the person who occasionally gets or feels haughty in this or that pet area of bias.

Certainly we are all prone to sin daily; need confession and forgiveness daily . . . contrition before God daily . . . and in that humility are far less likely to be haughty toward othersparticularly for no cause.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 2:15 (The Message)

14-16 The unspiritual self, just as it is by nature, can't receive the gifts of God's Spirit. There's no capacity for them. They seem like so much silliness. Spirit can be known only by spiritGod's Spirit and our spirits in open communion. Spiritually alive, we have access to everything God's Spirit is doing, and can't be judged by unspiritual critics. Isaiah's question, "Is there anyone around who knows God's Spirit, anyone who knows what he is doing?" has been answered: Christ knows, and we have Christ's Spirit.

This is an interesting passage. Certainly unspiritual pseudo Christians as well as heathen DO judge us, and that harshly. So what does Paul mean?

Perhaps he means they cannot judge remotely accurately nor can they judge with any effective spiritual consequence. Their judgments are chaff.

Christ alone is in charge of judgment. We can tune into Christs assessment of a situation or even a person WHEN HE ALLOWS IT, calls for it; implements it. Then we are called to also have HIS CHRIST-LIKE RESPONSE to the situation Christs Spirit within us had judged in a Christ-like way.

1 Corinthians 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

1 Corinthians 4:3 (The Message)

1 Corinthians 4 1-4 Don't imagine us leaders to be something we aren't. We are servants of Christ, not his masters. We are guides into God's most sublime secrets, not security guards posted to protect them. The requirements for a good guide are reliability and accurate knowledge. It matters very little to me what you think of me, even less where I rank in popular opinion. I don't even rank myself. Comparisons in these matters are pointless. I'm not aware of anything that would disqualify me from being a good guide for you, but that doesn't mean much. The Master makes that judgment.

1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

I think this is a very fascinating Scripture. Judge nothing before the timeuntil the Lord comes. Theres an implication that Gods judgment including the spotlight on all the hearts involvedis the only pure and worthwhile judgment.

Theres anecdotal evidence that at the point of death, Christ stands by facilitating a life review . . . wherein each individual not only recalls what they said and did and felt each second of their life, THEY ALSO FEEL, HEAR, SEE EVERY ASPECT OF EVERYONE ELSES LIFE in RESPONSE TO THEIR OWN WORDS AND ACTIONS.

That certainly sounds like Gods way of doing things. Each of us will know deeply, intimately, experientially and emotionally the motives and every other aspect of the other persons responses to us in vivid and exhaustive, complete detail. Certainly that fits the Scripture about every hidden thing becoming known.

For example, all the fiercer Vatican associated, Roman Catholics et al will know in vivid emotional detail how much I loved and cared for them, or not. And Ill know whether any loved me in return or not. It will be clear if there was any mean-spirited motivations on either side, or not. And Christ will be right there with HIS intense search-light on the whole review.

There will be NO rationalizing or equivocating THEN!

1 Corinthians 4:5 (The Message) 5So don't get ahead of the Master and jump to conclusions with your judgments before all the evidence is in. When he comes, he will bring out in the open and place in evidence all kinds of things we never even dreamed ofinner motives and purposes and prayers. Only then will any one of us get to hear the "Well done!" of God

That Scripture also sounds like it would support such a life review kind of thing.

Certainly in this time/space dimension in our finitenessAPART FROM HOLY SPIRITS INPUT, we cannot have perfect knowledge that would allow anything close to perfect judgment.

1 Corinthians 5:12 (Amplified Bible) 12What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]?

1 Corinthians 5:12 (The Message) 9-13I wrote you in my earlier letter that you shouldn't make yourselves at home among the sexually promiscuous. I didn't mean that you should have nothing at all to do with outsiders of that sort. Or with crooks, whether blue or white-collar. Or with spiritual phonies, for that matter. You'd have to leave the world entirely to do that! But I am saying that you shouldn't act as if everything is just fine when a friend who claims to be a Christian is promiscuous or crooked, is flip with God or rude to friends, gets drunk or becomes greedy and predatory. You can't just go along with this, treating it as acceptable behavior. I'm not responsible for what the outsiders do, but don't we have some responsibility for those within our community of believers? God decides on the outsiders, but we need to decide when our brothers and sisters are out of line and, if necessary, clean house.

Now, here, Paul makes a clear case FOR JUDGING. And being firm and disciplinary in ones judgments. Evidently, there is a Holy Spirit led Godly way to exercise judgment upon fellow believersat least regarding gross sin.

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Here he seems to add the smallest matters. And THE MESSAGE VERSION makes it pretty vividly clear, imho:

1 Corinthians 6:2 (The Message) 1 Corinthians 6 1-4And how dare you take each other to court! When you think you have been wronged, does it make any sense to go before a court that knows nothing of God's ways instead of a family of Christians? The day is coming when the world is going to stand before a jury made up of followers of Jesus. If someday you are going to rule on the world's fate, wouldn't it be a good idea to practice on some of these smaller cases? Why, we're even going to judge angels! So why not these everyday affairs? As these disagreements and wrongs surface, why would you ever entrust them to the judgment of people you don't trust in any other way?

I think many Christians are foolhardy in ignoring the firm exhortation and wisdom of this passage.

My Step-father has lived that way all his Christian adult life. We have suffered a lot because of it in many cases. Yet, somehow, Im convinced that in doing so, he has laid up treasure IN HEAVEN. And, he is known all over the county as a man of his word.

The choice is cleardo things Gods way outside of heathen courts . . . or suffer less than Gods highest blessings in the matter.

Clear also is the exhortation to choose wise, humble, socially lower ranked Believers to judge such matters. We dont do that. Its difficult for me to think of a single case that Ive observed, handled that way.

We ignore Gods Word. Believers tend, instead, to seek out the socially higher ranking folks in the congregation to pass judgment. Thats NOT BIBLICAL. Thats NOT HOLY SPIRITS WISDOM. And we lose Holy Spirits blessing, discernment and wisdom in the situation accordingly.

1 Corinthians 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

That grates on the flesh and on our pride. We want the high status people to take our case. We tend to want their blessing instead of Gods. Thats idolatry.

1 Corinthians 6:4 (The Message) 1 Corinthians 6 1-4And how dare you take each other to court! When you think you have been wronged, does it make any sense to go before a court that knows nothing of God's ways instead of a family of Christians? The day is coming when the world is going to stand before a jury made up of followers of Jesus. If someday you are going to rule on the world's fate, wouldn't it be a good idea to practice on some of these smaller cases? Why, we're even going to judge angels! So why not these everyday affairs? As these disagreements and wrongs surface, why would you ever entrust them to the judgment of people you don't trust in any other way?

INDEED. How dare we trust such matters to heathen whod as soon flush all of us and whos judgment we wouldnt trust about a speeding ticket or even a parking ticket.

We will all learn that doing even this sort of thing Gods way is essential to pleasing God.

1 Corinthians 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

We honor social rank. We honor wealth. We honor positions of power. We honor education. We honor achievement. We honor and even bow down to everything under the sunbut GODLY WISDOM. Whats with that? Have we become that seduced by satans world system and its values? Horrific. And then from those false shallow surface values, we pretend that we can execute perfectly reasonable and Godly judgment! WHAT A FARCE.

1 Corinthians 6:5 (The Message) 5-6I say this as bluntly as I can to wake you up to the stupidity of what you're doing. Is it possible that there isn't one levelheaded person among you who can make fair decisions when disagreements and disputes come up? I don't believe it. And here you are taking each other to court before people who don't even believe in God! How can they render justice if they don't believe in the God of justice?

I think that puts it very clearly and plainly. How can they indeed render justice if they dont believe in the God of justice? We have seen plenty of this with Klintoons and OThugas and other globalists appointments of rank evil globalist judges. God have mercy on us.

1 Corinthians 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

This seems to get into a tricky area, for sure. How do we exercise our liberty in Christ without offending a brother? And who do we allow to judge in such matters. I think the above Scriptures provide some guideline. Let the humble wise old codgers judge in such matters. Insure that those involved in judging are gifted at Holy Spirits discernment in such matters.

I do NOT believe that we are to kowtow to Pharisaical attitudes in such matters. Neither are we to be calloused toward a weaker Believer. Only Holy Spirit can help us navigate those mine fields fittingly, imho.

1 Corinthians 10:29 (The Message) 29-30But, except for these special cases, I'm not going to walk around on eggshells worrying about what small-minded people might say; I'm going to stride free and easy, knowing what our large-minded Master has already said. If I eat what is served to me, grateful to God for what is on the table, how can I worry about what someone will say? I thanked God for it and he blessed it!

INDEED. I think this involves a kind of uncommon-common-sense kind of healthy balanced theology based on the Whole counsel of the Whole of Scripture.

1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

I think this short simple verse is far reaching in its implications. WHEN we judge ourselves and govern our behavior according to Holy Spirits leading in our follow through, then we will leave behind no occasion for a negative judgment from Gods perspectiveregardless of how many Pharisees rant however loudly.

1 Corinthians 11:31 (The Message) 29-32If you give no thought (or worse, don't care) about the broken body of the Master when you eat and drink, you're running the risk of serious consequences. That's why so many of you even now are listless and sick, and others have gone to an early grave. If we get this straight now, we won't have to be straightened out later on. Better to be confronted by the Master now than to face a fiery confrontation later.

I think this gets close to Pastor Henry Wrights interpretation on The Lords Supper and discerning THE BODY OF CHRIST IN ONE ANOTHER ARIGHTLY. We are called to be clear with one another in terms of forgiveness, resentments, bitterness etc. before partaking of The Lords Supper. If we are not clear, then we have demeaned and essentially trashed to some degree The Lords Broken Body amidst one another, comprised of one another.

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

Here we have another exhortation by Paul that Believers ARE TO JUDGE ONE ANOTHERS pronouncements of prophetic messages. BTW, theres no exhortation in these New Testament passages about stoning someone whos spoken less than 100% accurately or fittingly. It seems clear that the goal is to identify those pronouncements which are to be heeded and those which are to be discarded.

Theres no hint in this passage of even any discipline at all for an imperfect pronouncement. The goal is to identify what is from Holy Spirit and to be attended to, to be followed accordingly.

1 Corinthians 14:29 (The Message) 26-33So here's what I want you to do. When you gather for worship, each one of you be prepared with something that will be useful for all: Sing a hymn, teach a lesson, tell a story, lead a prayer, provide an insight. If prayers are offered in tongues, two or three's the limit, and then only if someone is present who can interpret what you're saying. Otherwise, keep it between God and yourself. And no more than two or three speakers at a meeting, with the rest of you listening and taking it to heart. Take your turn, no one person taking over. Then each speaker gets a chance to say something special from God, and you all learn from each other. If you choose to speak, you're also responsible for how and when you speak. When we worship the right way, God doesn't stir us up into confusion; he brings us into harmony. This goes for all the churchesno exceptions.

29So let two or three prophets speak [those inspired to preach or teach], while the rest pay attention and weigh and discern what is said.

AgainGods way doesnt seem to be often heeded even in Pentecostal congregations. Thats to our hurt, for sure.

And, clearly other believers are tasked with JUDGING prophetic pronouncements for the edification and building up of the congregation and individuals in it.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:

Heres confirmation of avoiding kowtowing to a Pharisaical attitude about things we are to be Free in Christ aboutwhile being somewhat careful to cause stumbling of a weaker brother. And, interestingly, we arent to allow carnal pressure games and tactics about which Sabbath to take.

Colossians 2:16 (The Message) 16-17So don't put up with anyone pressuring you in details of diet, worship services, or holy days. All those things are mere shadows cast before what was to come; the substance is Christ.

THE SUBSTANCE IS CHRIST. Insubstantial details are not to be made larger in priority than they are.

James 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

James 2:4 (The Message) James 2 The Royal Rule of Love 1-4My dear friends, don't let public opinion influence how you live out our glorious, Christ-originated faith. If a man enters your church wearing an expensive suit, and a street person wearing rags comes in right after him, and you say to the man in the suit, "Sit here, sir; this is the best seat in the house!" and either ignore the street person or say, "Better sit here in the back row," haven't you segregated God's children and proved that you are judges who can't be trusted?

This kind of preferential JUDGMENT and behavior accordingly, is THOROUGHLY PROSCIRBED throughout Scripture.

Often enough, we see it in forums like this. Social stars; acclaimed experts, personal favorites, . . . can claim stronger or wider acclaim EVEN THOUGH, their perspectives may be full of bias; full of hypocrisy; full of carnality; full of ego and arrogance; even full of evil. That is NOT judging aright nor by Holy Spirits priorities.

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

12-13Talk and act like a person expecting to be judged by the Rule that sets us free. For if you refuse to act kindly, you can hardly expect to be treated kindly. Kind mercy wins over harsh judgment every time.

James 2:11-13 (Amplified Bible) 11For He Who said, You shall not commit adultery, also said, You shall not kill. If you do not commit adultery but do kill, you have become guilty of transgressing the [whole] Law.(A)

12So speak and so act as [people should] who are to be judged under the law of liberty [the moral instruction given by Christ, especially about love].

13For to him who has shown no mercy the judgment [will be] merciless, but mercy [full of glad confidence] exults victoriously over judgment.

I think this is a wonderful and most precious Scripture. MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUSTICE, OVER JUDGMENT.

JUDGE KINDLYACCORDING TO THE LAW OF LIBERTY. This reminds me of the verse about Holy Spirit brings life and liberty and the letter of the law brings death.

Pharisees love to judge according to the letter of the law.

INDEED much wailing, whining, pontificating and dust throwing in 100s of threads on such forums is about this or that letter or even minor punctuation point of the law. This is usually some facet or effort toward some game of GOTCHA; or WINING POINTS or !!!!CONTROL!!!! PHREAQUE theology etc.

All this while the major points of the SPIRIT OF THE LAW are wholesale trashed or ignored. Thats not wisdom. Gods judgment of that sort of thing is not so likely to be exceedingly merciful. Its much more likely that judgment will be applied as the Pharisees judged down their long haughty noses. Theyll wish their haughtiness had been nonexistent when they are faced with the reaping of such sowing.

HOWEVER, when we observe a brother and apply the liberty of Christ with the best benefit of the doubtMERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT. Unity may be enhanced and fellowship deepened. If there is something minor amisstheres a deeper connection from which to influence refinement toward righteousness.

Of course, Paul made clear earlierthis is NOT the approach to take with gross sin.

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

James 4:11 (The Message) 11-12Don't bad-mouth each other, friends. It's God's Word, his Message, his Royal Rule, that takes a beating in that kind of talk. You're supposed to be honoring the Message, not writing graffiti all over it. God is in charge of deciding human destiny. Who do you think you are to meddle in the destiny of others?

James 4:11 (Amplified Bible) 11[My] brethren, do not speak evil about or accuse one another. He that maligns a brother or judges his brother is maligning and criticizing the Law and judging the Law. But if you judge the Law, you are not a practicer of the Law but a censor and judge [of it].

James 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

These are precious Scriptures but often ignored or minimized.

Who do you think you are to meddle in the destiny of others? INDEED. Pronouncing fleshly, harsh, critical judgment from an ignorant haughty arrogant carnal position and perspective tends to do that. Ive been there and done that plenty to great hurt.

A lot of things God does not call us to even comment on. Or, we have no influence nor position given or ordained of God from which to pontificate.

This sort of forum, where the given seems to be that all consider everyone else voluntarily to have mutually agreed to be fair game for whatever flavor of pontifications to be lobbed back and forth in various degrees of good natured exchangesand many not so good natured appears to be a maximum kind of test of the extreme limits of such a principle.

And, considering the Jewish elders at the gate sort of context . . . perhaps this is not that far fetched a similar context for iron sharpening iron.

Trouble is, some seem not so intent on sharpening as on shredding hearts and personhoods.

I think a guiding principle might be that when pride and haughtiness have entered, any mercy or fittingness to the exhortation has probably fled away. That leaves us to be crushed by our own words coming back in reaping judgment or crushed by the letter of the law that weve been so eager to assault the other with.

James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

James 5:9 (The Message) 9Friends, don't complain about each other. A far greater complaint could be lodged against you, you know. The Judge is standing just around the corner.

I think this verse is critical, crucial. GRUDGES AGAINST ONE ANOTHERBITTERNESSRESENTMENTALL SYMPTOMS OF IMPROPER JUDGMENT.

A TON of exhortations and pontifications are whining complaints because we didnt get our way over a brother. So what? Who decreed that it was fitting that we get our way to begin with. Perhaps OUR WAY was grossly MORE wrong but our pride would not allow us to see it!

Another Scripture teaches that we should surrender our cloak when someone asks for our coatgive up both AS UNTO THE LORD. BETTER TO BE WRONGED in the flesh by a fellow humanAND RECEIVE GODS BLESSING for our attitudethan to have a contrary, selfish, arrogant attitude and suffer the reaping of thatin this life and the next.

THEREFORE WHAT VIS A VIS HAITI?

1. Haitiincluding a series of horrific satan worshipping leadershas repeatedly chosen from the top to the lowest ranks to worship satan. Thats abundantly clear.

2. Such satan worship, including child sacrifice, is extremely hostile to God and Gods priorities. God has never taken such lightly and does not do so now.

3. The Dominican Republic is on the other half of the island. Theres little evidence of God having equal hostility toward that half of the same island. The history and behavior of the people and the leaders illustrates fairly clearly why.

4. Judging Haitis satan worship and child sacrifice is a simple matter. It does not require any haughtiness; no hypocrisy; no nuanced minor points of Christian priorities and morality; no debatable issues about minor rights and wrongs. ITS HORRIBLY WRONG FROM BEGINNING TO END. Only idiots totally clueless about satan and God, excuse such practices.

5. Figures of the complicity of the populace in worshiping satan range from 52% up to 95%. The Roman Catholicism is clearly nominal, if ranking even that high as an influence on the culture and individuals in it.

6. GOD IS NOT MOCKED. WHATSOEVER A MAN SOWS, SO SHALL HE REAP. THIS UNIVERSAL LAW HAS BEEN LONG SET IN MOTION. God need not intervene actively for it to apply and execute judgment. However, it appears that God is taking an active hand in these END TIMES in ramping up specific targeted judgments. The Dominican Republic is not full of perfect saints. Yet, just across the line down the middle of the islandit did not receive such judgment. There are reasonssolid reasons for thatspiritual reasonsdaily life and practice of morality reasons by a majority of the Dominican Republics population vs the Haitian populations daily life practices of horrific satan worshiping immorality and child sacrifice.

7. The decades of Abortion genocide in the Western world, including the USA have been likened to burning children on the arms of the idol to Molech in Old Testament times. Many parents evidently did so as much out of convenience motives as influencing Molechs favor motives. Convenience is certainly a prime motivation in the child sacrifices that Americans have been making for decades in infanticide clinics across the land.

8. Many prophetic voices have declared that Gods judgment is going to fall on the Western world accordingly in the not too distant future. I agree.

9. There have been a lot of glib statements about how can Pat Robertson assert with any degree of reason and accuracy that God had anything to do with Haiti.

10. Pat doesnt always seem to choose his words wisely in all such situations. However, I do NOT believe he could have chosen wording which would have satisfied anyone in the MSMnor even some conservatives on FR.

11. There is in the heart of man rebellion against God that wants its own way. To blazes with the details. Sin soaked souls want to do what sin soaked souls want to do WITHOUT ANY CONSEQUENCES. God did NOT set up the universe to support such notions.

12. Such a mentality does NOT want to be called on its evil at all. Such a mentality will always rail at any kind of accounting before Goddirect or indirect. Even the idea that Pat expressed is offensiveregardless of the realityto such mentalities.

13. However, essentially, what Pat asserted was correct. I believe he heard accurately in his spirit what this disaster was about. It was about judgment for sinhorrific child sacrifice level, satan worshiping sin. If there was ever a no brainer in this era on such issuesthis is a no-brainer.

14. However, folks are clueless or ill-informed if they think that Pat Robertson is unkind or uncaring toward the Haitian people. He has been reaching out to Haiti through Operation Blessing for a very long timeand more intensively this last YEAR.

15. Some people see a contradiction between reaching out with aid vs letting Gods judgment stand without lifting a hand to help the suffering people. Except in very rare circumstances, KINDNESS IS ALWAYS A CHRISTIAN VIRTUE THATS IN ORDER. Occasionally in the Old Testament, God directed otherwisevery very rarely, however.

16. In terms of judgmentit did not require a huge intense neon handwriting on the wall message from Holy Spirit for Pat to say what he did. Any Jr High Sunday School student could have discerned the same thing.

17. Even people on FR are overly influenced by the satanic globalist oligarchy created Political Correctness mentality. Hintthat is a GODLESS mentality foisted on our land by satan worshippers diligently working to set up a world government to worshipdrum rollsatan incarnate. Literally. Get a clue folks. Wake up!

18. Haitian leader Aristide reportedly participated in a child sacrifice ritual to help Billdo Klintoon get elected. Officials reported that Shrillery had a CHRISTmas tree in the private quarters decorated with sex and drug paraphernalia. Hello? Wake up, folks!

19. Such things do not require a lot of prayer or discernment. They assault with slaps across the face. It is cowardice, ignorance and Godlessness that FAILS TO JUDGE such as horrific.

20. I believe that Haiti was a clear message from God to the whole planet. I do not believe its an accident that the Dominican Republic on the other half of the SAME ISLAND was spared significant damage. God is going to be drawing a clearer and clearer line between the righteous and the satan worshippers and willfully rebellious.

21. CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY, WHOM WILL YOU SERVE. WILL YOU BE SLAVES TO RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HIS LOVEOR SLAVES TO SIN AND SATAN? Its always our choicewith no apology to Calvin.

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD. BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD. BLESSED BE THE WAYS OF THE LORD. BLESSED BE THE MERCY OF THE LORD. BLESSED BE THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENTS OF THE LORD BLESSED BE THE HEALING, DELIVERANCE AND RESTORATION OF THE LORD. BLESSED BE THE LOVE OF THE LORD. BLESSED BE THOSE WHO HOPE IN THE LORD. BLESSED BE THOSE WHO OBEY THE LORD. BLESSED BE THOSE WHO SHELTER IN THE LORD.

Amen and Amen. It’s really an exciting time for us Christians because we KNOW that every day Jesus is one day closer to removing us from this cesspool, now called the world. Our ONLY job now is to bring as many into the fold and rescue them from the wrath of God as possible. And I still stand on His word that HE will bring in our unsaved or astray loved ones. We should actually be praising the Lord, not griping. CO

4
posted on 01/15/2010 9:57:17 PM PST
by Canadian Outrage
(Conservatism is to a country what medicine is to a wound - HEALING!!)

LOL Notice how few replies the Word of God gets????? THAT is why the country has been taken over. The United States as a country has kicked God out. Being the gentleman that He is, he will leave BUT with that he takes ALL of His Blessings and PROTECTION. America ought to think about that. It’s too late tho. American’s in particular think that they can always turn things around. They do NOT recognize the “season”. CO

5
posted on 01/15/2010 10:01:48 PM PST
by Canadian Outrage
(Conservatism is to a country what medicine is to a wound - HEALING!!)

However,it's far too simple,we need it to be a lot more complicated so we can have great long arguments about it as we water it down to more palatable levels.This would serve many of us well as we could then simply defer to others who know better (after all the mountain smokes and shakes and is not a little humbling)plus we can lose ourselves in all the details and keep some sort of face with the world.

10
posted on 01/15/2010 10:22:08 PM PST
by mitch5501
(Yeah,but is it shatterproof?)

I think it’s the dogmatic certainty of Robertson’s assertion that gives many people pause. Who can know the mind of God on something like this, particularly in light of the new testament? The conventional wisdom of much of the old testament is that temporal blessings and difficulties are immediately dictated by one’s righteousness and it was clearly the conventional wisdom during Jesus’ ministry, which he challenged again and again. Really, this idea is seriously challenged in both the old and the new testaments (the book of Job, the parables of Jesus, the setting apart of Apostles and followers for special sufferings, “who sinned, this man or his parents?”, etc.)

And the specific example that Robertson cites about a pact with the devil is historically uncertain, to say the least! (How does one prove such a thing???!!!) If people have trouble embracing the idea that thousands of children are buried alive in response to the sins of their fathers as a deliberate, retributive act by God, you can hardly blame them. The best minds of Christianity have been struggling with such things since the beginning. That’s why it might be wiser to temper one’s statements about the purposes of God in any particular tragedy, particularly with the bleeding and dying still being removed from the rubble...

I also know that the first hours of a disaster are often the best times to wake people up to the underlying spiritual issues that God may be highlighting.

I can’t be 100% certain of all the details of Haiti’s history vis a vis satan worship. However, in my 63 years of living, I’ve heard enough over the years that there’s far too much smoke to be no fire—in fact, the fires MUST be quite serious given the level of smoke.

That’s just what I’ve heard in the MSM over the decades.

This whitewashing of Haiti and it’s past just doesn’t was with me. There’s too much evidence been in the public domain over the years.

The children who die are in Heaven. They have it great. They got the best deal.

Those alive and suffering are another story and all Christian hearts go out to them.

Christian money and goods are pouring toward them.

SATAN WORSHIP IS A HORROR.

The bad person is not the one pointing out that it’s a horror. The bad is participating in it. The bad is the consequences from it.

I think bogusname’s choice of scripture is to highlight that in the only instance of responding to a comparable assessment to a contemporary tragedy as what we have with Robertson (that I’m aware of off the top of my head, at least), Jesus did not come close to giving them the response they were looking for (”yeah, those guys really got what they deserved”...).

It’s exactly this kind of facile, simplistic way of interpreting events that is targeted in some of the parables...

Certainly Christ sliced katty wumpus across Pharisaical constructions on reality time after time.

I think one has toa be cautious in applying that record about the PHARISEES’ CONSTRUCTIONS ON REALITY

to ALL REALITY.

I do not believe Pat Robertson was operating in a Pharisee type of attitude at all. He has all the compassion in the world for the Haitians as his Operation Blessing’s outreach to them over the last year has well documented.

I believe Pat did tap into the heart of God regarding the satan worship and child sacrifice so horrifically real in Haiti.

Highly interesting if it is true that the more wicked part of Haiti has been seeing more natural disasters and that this doesn’t have some more prosaic explanation (such as worse construction under a faulty government, or geography). We could well look at home: San Freaksicko sits on a fault line and yet it has lucked out... so far.

28
posted on 01/16/2010 12:01:41 AM PST
by HiTech RedNeck
(I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))

BTW this doesn’t have much to do with Haiti, but some random poking around Wikipedia earlier today located an entry for “Abracadabra” which is purported to come from Kabbalistic numerology, a corruption of the Hebrew “arba echad arba” or 4 1 4. In the second century, an amulet containing “Abracadabra” reduced by one letter on succeeding lines was consider to ward off evil. Four having a mystical connotation of the divine and nine having a mystical connotation of evil. It didn’t say what the one is for. None of this matches with the numeric symbology of Revelation so it might just be “old wives tales.” Anyhow, 414 is the area code of a large part of the Milwaukee, Wisconsin area. Take that as you will.

29
posted on 01/16/2010 12:10:06 AM PST
by HiTech RedNeck
(I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))

You are absolutely right, you know - The term “judge not lest ye be judged” has been utterly misconstrued to mean “understand not lest ye understand”.

No doubt there will be those who dissent with what is plainly on the page, and will argue that God is nothing but love... which is true, but that doesn’t mean that there is not retribution. And that doesn’t mean that God will not be true to His Word.

There are some things so awful in Man, that the very land will spit you out - And if a nation cannot see those things being purged from another country, how will that nation see those things in itself?

This is just the beginning of sorrows. Those who refuse to see will have a very hard time ahead. Millions WILL perish. It is written. Jehovah will judge the nations.

Robertson is exactly right - and with precisely the right tone. His was not a judgment against individual persons, but a judgment against a nation. And he made it while helping greatly to pick up the pieces in the aftermath... That is his judgment upon individuals.

Great OP.

30
posted on 01/16/2010 1:39:49 AM PST
by roamer_1
(Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)

1 Corinthians 6 1-4And how dare you take each other to court! When you think you have been wronged, does it make any sense to go before a court that knows nothing of God's ways instead of a family of Christians?

If the USA rule of law is more "righteous" than a pharisaic "christian" religious institutions rules, is it OK to use the Courts? Paul seemed to do this when he appealed to Caesar.

Most definitely. Worship of any other thing beside the One, true God. So much so it is the first commandment. "You shall have no other gods before Me." He must believe it is pretty important to list it first.

A Christian Psych Association Conventioni was once held in Oakland. I remember how hard it was to find a church to worship in on Sunday.

The enemy has succeeded far more than any of our better Founding Fathers would have had a nightmare about—in seducing folks into believing that the pleasures of a moment are the best life has to offer . . . and that there is no death or that death is just a transition to different fun and games a la the “New Age.”

The wake-up will be severe and Scripture indicates that even than many will just curse God and die. Boggles the mind.

Certainly these are but the BEGINNING of sorrows. I think few even awake and prepared Christians have much of an understanding of the severity ahead.

Scripture really means it when God says therein—WORSE THAN EVER HAS BEEN; WORSE THAN EVER WILL BE AGAIN.

The Grapes of Wrath [movie] will look like a delightful picnic by comparison.

I'm assuming that you mean that Haiti is the more wicked part of the island with the DR being the less wicked. There is slavery existing today in the DR, I've seen it. The Slaves are Haitians.

The DR is doing substantially better in large part because of the fortunes made by Dominicans in the cocaine business here in the US. These drugs have destroyed millions of lives and families over the past thirty years but have made thousands of Dominicans wealthy beyond our comprehension.

Crime is so rampant in the DR that our State Department warns tourists against leaving resort areas during the day as well as after dark.

Oh, santeria is not nearly as common in the DR as voodoo is in Haiti but it is deeply ingrained. They are two sides of the same animist coin.

36
posted on 01/16/2010 8:16:46 AM PST
by wtc911
("How you gonna get down that hill?")

God spent enormous energy illustrating what Holy was in the Old Testament.

Folks sometimes seem to believe and act like the NT watered that down with Christ’s GRACE and Mercy triumphing over judgment etc.

Actually, Christ’s standard was tougher. Love your enemies. Do good to those who use [and abuse] you. Love others as yourself to the max. Love wives as Christ loved the Church. Obey the Spirit of the law. Give your coat also to someone who requests your sweater. Give to him who asks. Avoid expecting back from him who borrows.

The Sermon on The Mount set a new standard.

We have rationalized it away as a lofty nice speech to recite parts of at memorable occasions. Christ wasn’t just talking to hear the wind blow.

Those who earnestly attempt by His Blood, Grace and Spirit to live out the Sermon on The Mount’s standards will find new empowerment and authority in these END TIMES that will be unprecedented compared to all of history—including Moses’ era.

God is making leaders to rule and reign with Christ eternally. This boot camp is not just to give us spiritual muscles to preen and prance before mirrors and throngs with.

This Graduation era will be a most dramatic set of Graduation ceremonies.

God will be illustrating for all Creation the consequence of choosing HIM vs the consequences of choosing anyone or anything less than HIM.

The globalists believe the critters even though they know that the critters constantly lie to them. Amazing. They think they’ll snooker God Almighty as though HE were merely another critter.

These managers of the GREAT END TIMES DECEPTION will learn far too late that they have been the most deceived.

I wonder where the San Francisco based “Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence” will be excessing when the quake hits. How grand will their absurdities and costumes be then?

1. Paul was already “in the system” by no action of his own in terms of appealing to the system or choosing to be a participant in the system. He was hauled into the system for doing God’s work.

2. It was more of a Peter “Who would you have us obey—God or man?” kind of situation.

3. It is clear that God intended to get Paul to Ceasar and Rome for God’s purposes.

4. In terms of the courts in our era. No—do not use them between Christians. They are getting worse and worse headed by satanic globalists sitting in far more judges chairs.

5. I believe that MORE OFTEN THAN NOT—probably always or close to it—God would have the authentic Christians suffer loss rather than take each other to a pagan court system.

6. Instead, FIND WHATEVER HUMBLE WISE CHRISTIANS ARE IN THE AREA AND SUBMIT TO THAT CHRISTIAN’S OR A GROUP OF THEM’S JUDGMENT in the matter. God would bless that. He’s not very happy to bless taking each other to a pagan court.

7. Step-Dad has said all my life—GOD IS OUR PAYMASTER. GOD SAYS—HE WOULD THAT WE PROSPER AND BE IN HEALTH EVEN AS OUR SOUL PROSPERS. HE MEANT IT THEN; HE MEANS IT NOW. When we take care of the majors with His help, He takes care of minor things like wealth and property.

8. Take such matters to a humble lower status wise old discerning Spirit-filled Christian in the area. Give the atny’s fees to missions. Then see God bless. If the other believer won’t do that—suffer loss and wait on God to repay. I can’t read the related Scriptures any other way.

9. I’m not arguing that the RELIGIOUS SYSTEMS are always more inherently righteous than the pagan court system. They are NOT. I’m not even talking about such RELIGIOUS SYSTEMS. I’m talking about finding Believers who are wise, mature, experienced, humble, Spirit-led as individuals—submit the matter to them.

Robertson is a moronic, pompous @ss and his own words have just proven that (again). He’s just one of many phony baloney “religious icons” of this world. It’s bad enough that his stupidity and lack of real Christian faith presumes to judge hundreds of thousands of innocents by his words of condemnation...but, since he’s supposed to be a man of God, he also leads others to condemn and judge by example, as well. It just compounds his sin to the nth.

Beware of false prophets.

If God wanted to punish the evil-doers of this world, we’d be having devastating earthquakes everywhere. It’s not quite time for that scenario. The AC hasn’t had his chance to ‘shine’ and impress the world yet.

God have mercy on all who have any heart to know Him at all. May He lead them to Him through whatever it takes.

This is another very important aspect of disaster, which also should not be overlooked... Jehovah also says he disciplines those He loves to bring them back to Him. I am sure, amidst the spoil and debris, Ruach HaKodesh is working overtime. There will have been miracles and healings, and more to come - Opportunity abounds for those Christians who are on-site.

44
posted on 01/16/2010 9:04:53 AM PST
by roamer_1
(Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)

IF the Christians were intent on fully following the will of God as outlined in Scripture, they would have negotiated with the other Christians a suitable recompense—done their best before God and man and independent other Christian mediators . . . and accepted the result; forgiven and blessed as God led.

The secular court system and laws kind of muddies things a bit in requiring such things to enter the justice system when child abuse has been involved. Where possible, I’d still have advocated taking it to Christian mediation.

And kind of relegate them to top or bottom dusty shelves in the libraries of their minds.

THAT’S NOT GOD’S ATTITUDE AT ALL.

When the meek inherit the earth, what laws do they think will be the operant ones?

TOTALLY BIBLICAL LAWS. TOTALLY.

If they count on being around due to their humility, they’re likely already earnestly trying to live by such.

The arrogant are something else.

But they won’t likely be around then.

I do beleive God is going to bring groups of people forward and raise their ‘social footprint’ in even the eyes of the world—LIVING BY SCRIPTURAL STANDARDS AS NEAR TOTALLY AS POSSIBLE—confirmed by signs and wonders accordingly.

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