Heribert
I

Count of Vermandois, 896-900×6.
Count of Soissons and lay-abbot of Saint-Crépin, before
898-900×6.

Heribert first appears in 877, when he and his brother Pépin
were among those sent by emperor Charles the Bald to prepare for
a meeting between the pope and emperor ["Quapropter
praemisit Odacrum secundi scrinii notarium, Goiramnum comitem et
Pippinum atque Heribertum, ad procuranda ipsius papae servitia."
Ann. Bertin., s.a. 877, 136]. In 893, he and Pépin are
found with Charles the Simple upon his elevation as king ["Odone
rege in Aquitania commemorata, Francorum principes ex permaxima
parte ab eo deficiunt, et agnetibus Folcone episcopo, Heriberto
et Pippino comitibus, in Remorum civitate Carolus filius
Hludowici, ex Adalheide regina, ut supra meminimus, natus, in
regnum elevatur." Regino, s.a. 892 (misdated), MGH SS
1: 605]. In 896, Heribert killed Raoul, brother of count Baldwin
II [Ann. Vedast., s.a., 896, 78], who had been expelled
earlier that year from the countship of Vermandois, and it is
probably in this year that Heribert became count of Vermandois
and lay-abbot of Saint-Quentin. Heribert last appears in 900 (the
year that Annales Vedastini end), and he was killed not
long afterward by a follower of Baldwin II of Flanders.

Date of Birth: Unknown.Place of
Birth: Unknown.

Date of Death: 900×906.
Regino of Prüm, writing ca. 906, in comments added to the
obituary of king Bernard of Italy under the year 818, mentions
that Bernard's grandson Heribert had killed count Rodulf, son of
Baldwin, in Regino's own time, and that Heribert was killed not
long after by a supporter (also named Baldwin) of Rodulf's
brother Baldwin [II] of Flanders ["qui Heribertus
Rodulfum comitem, filium Balduini interfecit nostris temporibus,
et non multum post occisus est a Balduino, satellite Balduini,
fratris Rodulfi, qui Balduinus hucusque in Flandris ducatum
tenet." Regino, s.a. 818, MGH SS 1: 567]Place of Death: Unknown.

Mother:Unknown.The conjecture that she was a member of the
"Nibelungen" family (descendants of Childebrand, son of
Charles Martel) is based on the fact that Heribert I's
predecessors in some of his possessions belonged to that family,
and on the presence of the name Heribert in that family [see
Werner (1960), 101-6].

Spouses: Unknown.See the Commentary section.

Children (very
probable):
It is rather surprising to see the extent to which modern
scholars have glossed over the lack of direct documentation for
the relationship between Heribert I and Heribert II. In fact, I
did not notice this gap in documentation until the question of
documentation for the parentage of Heribert II was raised on the
soc.genealogy.medieval/GEN-MEDIEVAL internet newsgroup/mailing
list on 13 September 2005 by Steve Barnhoorn, and soon after
discussed in more detail by Peter Stewart. Indeed, in his
detailed critical study of this family, Karl Ferdinand Werner
started his paper by indicating that the Carolingian descent was
well documented ["Im Gegnsatz zu den meisten andern
westfränkischen Fürstengeschlechtern stellt das Haus Vermandois
der Forschung nicht das heikle Problem der Herkunft - zumindest
nicht in Mannesstamm. Der karolingische Ursprung ist sicher
bezeugt." Werner (1960), 87], followed by a footnote which
did in fact document the descent of Heribert I from Charlemagne,
but then just stated that Heribert II was a son of Heribert I,
without offering any direct documentation there or elsewhere in
the paper. Brandenburg (1964) and Settipani (1993), both of them
sources which should state such documentation (or at least
mention the lack thereof), state the link without documentation
or further comment.

The earliest source which would appear (at least at first
glance) to offer such documentation is an eleventh century
Angevin genealogical table, in which Adèle de Troyes, wife of
count Geoffroy Grisegonelle of Anjou,
is called a daughter of Robert, son of Heribert, son of another
Heribert. [Poupardin (1900), 207; see also the page of Heribert's
great-granddaughter Adèle, which
shows the table] Unfortunately, there is a serious error which
undermines this source (which is, of course, not contemporary
anyway). In this table, it is the elder Heribert who is stated to
be the captor of king Charles the Simple, whereas that deed was
actually performed by Heribert II. Because Heribert II did have a
son named Heribert, the exact nature of the error remains unclear
(is Robert being erroneously assigned as son of his own brother,
or was the captor of Charles simply misidentified in an otherwise
correct genealogy?), and this source is therefore not good
evidence for the parentage of Heribert II.

The strongest piece of indirect evidence for Heribert II's
parentage is that he is found in possession of the lands which
were also held by his namesake Heribert I, e.g. Soissons,
Vermandois. Also of note is the statement of the annalist
Flodoard that Heribert had a cousin (consobrinus) named
Bernard ["..., et Heribertus comes Bernardum,
consobrinum suum, cum aliis legatis consilium quod per illos
agebatur, ut fertur, ignorantibus, ad Karolum dirigit."
Flodoard, Annales, s.a. 923, 15]. Since Heribert I had a
brother named Bernard, this also gives good onomastic evidence.
Thus, despite the lack of direct documentation for the
relationship, it is very probable that Heribert II was the son
and successor of Heribert I. (In the unlikely event that Heribert
II was not a son of Heribert I, he would in that case almost
certainly be a son of either Bernard or Pépin, brothers of
Heribert I.)

Heribert II, b. say 880, d. 23 February 943, count of Meaux,
Soissons, and Vermandois, and abbot of Saint-Crépin and
Saint-Médard (Soissons), 900×7-943; m. before 907, Adèle,
daughter of Robert of
Neustria (later Robert I, king of France).

NN, m. Udo, count of
Wetterau.An entry in Flodoard's annals for the year 946 shows that
Udo (identified as a brother of Hermann) had married an amita
of bishop Hugues, also mentioning Arnulf, who had married the
bishop's sister ["Videns autem praesul Hugo obsidionem
se tolerare non posse, neque tantae resistere multitudini,
locutus est cum quibusdam principibus qui videbantur sibi esse
amici, videlicet cum Arnulfo, qui ejus sororem, et Uddone, qui
amitam ipsius habebat uxorem, sed et cum Hermanno, Uddonis
fratre, quaesivit ab eis, quid sibi foret agendum."
Flodoard, Annales, s.a. 946, 102]. Since Hugues was a
son of Heribert II and Arnulf (I of Flanders) was married to a
daughter of Heribert II, Udo's wife would be a sister of
Heribert, assuming that amita is to be interpreted in
the usual sense as paternal aunt. The suggestion that her name
was Cunégonde is an unverified conjecture [See Settipani (1993),
222-3; Jackman (1997), 36, 38]. For the implausible attempt to
identify Udo's wife with Béatrix, wife of Robert I of France
[Vajay (1980), 770-1], see the page of Béatrix.

Commentary

Falsely attributed wife
(fictional):

Berthe, daughter
of Guerri (Wedricus),
count of Morvois, and his wife Eva.

From this starting point, the "logic"
on which this false claim is based is easy enough to see. It has
been assumed by some authors that the sibling relationship
between Ybert and Heribert is at least partly correct, i.e.,
through their mother. If this argument is accepted, then Ybert's
mother Berthe becomes the wife of Heribert I [e.g.,
Chaume, 1: 543 (table VIII)]. However, the account of Historia Walciodorensis Monasterii is
legendary, and attempts to deduce genealogical truths from such
legends are not valid. Indeed, for a very different genealogical
scenario based on the same legends, see the page of Wigeric, d. 916×9, count of Bidgau, where more details are
included.

Falsely attributed
daughter:

Béatrix, m. Robert
I, d. 923, king of France.
The claim that Robert married a sister of Heribert II appears
occasionally from the twelfth century on [e.g., "Habebat
enim idem Robertus sororem istius Herberti in conjugio; de qua
ortus est Hugo Magnus." Historia Francorum
Senonensis, MGH SS 9: 366; "..., a Herberto comite,
cuius sororem predictus Robertus habebat in uxorem, ..."
Ex Stephanni Normannico Dracone, i, 24, MGH SS 26: 157]. However,
since contemporary sources verify that Heribert II was married to
Robert's daughter, these later accounts are more likely to be
confused accounts of Heribert's marriage. Robert did have a wife
named Béatrix, but she was not a daughter of Heribert [see the
page of Béatrix for more details]. For the implausible attempt
to identify Béatrix with Udo's wife [Vajay (1980), 770-1], see
the page of Béatrix.

Conjectured daughter (existence
doubtful):

Adèle, m. Gebhard,
count of Ulfgau.
[Jackman (1990), 134-5, 178; Jackman (1997), 36, 38] The
existence of this supposed daughter is based on a chain of
arguments which will only be outlined here. It is closely related
to the question of the parentage of Heribert, count of Kinziggau
(d. 992) [for whom a page on this website is planned, but as yet
unwritten]. In what might be called the "orthodox"
account of Heribert's parentage, he is a son of the above
marriage of count Udo with a daughter of Heribert I, and there is
no need to hypothesize another daughter as a wife of Gerhard (a
first cousin of Udo). In what might be called the
"alternate" account of Heribert's parentage (proposed
notably by Armin Wolf and Donald Jackman), Heribert was a member
of another branch of the Konradiner dynasty, a son of Konrad, son
of Gebhard of Ulfgau. In this second case, another daughter of
Heribert I is hypothesized (and identified with an Adela
who appears on a Reichenau memorial list) in order to explain the
appearance of the name Heribert in this branch of the Konradiner
dynasty. Thus, in order to accept the existence of this daughter,
one must first accept the "alternate" scenario of
Heribert's parentage, and even then it is still no more than a
conjecture.