Currently, Mormons believe baptism is necessary for an individual to exit from "Spirit Prison" - a place akin to purgatory in the Catholic Church. Anyone outside the Mormon faith enters Spirit Prison at the time of their death.

Lionel Mandrake:Currently, Mormons believe baptism is necessary for an individual to exit from "Spirit Prison" - a place akin to purgatory in the Catholic Church. Anyone outside the Mormon faith enters Spirit Prison at the time of their death.

Lionel Mandrake:Currently, Mormons believe baptism is necessary for an individual to exit from "Spirit Prison" - a place akin to purgatory in the Catholic Church. Anyone outside the Mormon faith enters Spirit Prison at the time of their death.

Matticus:Lionel Mandrake: Currently, Mormons believe baptism is necessary for an individual to exit from "Spirit Prison" - a place akin to purgatory in the Catholic Church. Anyone outside the Mormon faith enters Spirit Prison at the time of their death.

Matticus:Lionel Mandrake: Currently, Mormons believe baptism is necessary for an individual to exit from "Spirit Prison" - a place akin to purgatory in the Catholic Church. Anyone outside the Mormon faith enters Spirit Prison at the time of their death.

Lionel Mandrake:Matticus: Lionel Mandrake: Currently, Mormons believe baptism is necessary for an individual to exit from "Spirit Prison" - a place akin to purgatory in the Catholic Church. Anyone outside the Mormon faith enters Spirit Prison at the time of their death.

Matticus:Lionel Mandrake: Matticus: Lionel Mandrake: Currently, Mormons believe baptism is necessary for an individual to exit from "Spirit Prison" - a place akin to purgatory in the Catholic Church. Anyone outside the Mormon faith enters Spirit Prison at the time of their death.

Krymson Tyde:Matticus: Lionel Mandrake: Currently, Mormons believe baptism is necessary for an individual to exit from "Spirit Prison" - a place akin to purgatory in the Catholic Church. Anyone outside the Mormon faith enters Spirit Prison at the time of their death.

Even Jesus?

I guess they've probably baptized Him by now.

wasn't jesus already baptized?

Sure, but he wasn't Mormon baptized and so was locked out of Heaven.

Must be like when you get home at 3 AM, stumbling drunk, and remember that your keys are inside the house.

This "Spirit Prison" sounds a lot like the "Iron Prison" of Philip K. Dick's post-psychotic period (as seen in his later novels). Maybe he wasn't in contact with the Roman Catholic Church in Exile or aliens, but with Mormon Jesus.

Ha! Take that Scott Orson Card!

I've got The Exegesis of Philip K. Dick on my Kindle. It is interesting to see him trying to explain his experience (dreams, hallucinations, etc.) while waivering between the Christianity of his deceased friend, Southern California mysticism and (science fictiony) science. The interplay between his work and his real life is interesting in itself, but here is an intelligent man trying to come to grips with religion, mythology, politics, and psychosis. Truly a Man in tune with the Zeitgheist of SoCal in the time of Nixon and Reagan. Crazy, Man, crazy. But not stupid.

People told Dick that the world was turning into the paranoid Gnostic world of his novels. Perhaps this was his greatest fear. Perhaps they were right in some ways.

Krymson Tyde:Matticus: Lionel Mandrake: Currently, Mormons believe baptism is necessary for an individual to exit from "Spirit Prison" - a place akin to purgatory in the Catholic Church. Anyone outside the Mormon faith enters Spirit Prison at the time of their death.

I don't think much of baptizing dead people--seems unnecessary--they can choose their fate on Judgment Day even in the eschatology of many more conventional religious denominations and sects, but I do find their genealogical research extremely useful. I have run across allusions to ancestors being "sealed" to so-and-so, presumably the Mormon "sponsor". I am glad that they are not forcing Mormonism and salvation on the dead. This would be presumptuous and I can see why atheists, Jews and others get very upset even at a free-will type of situation.

Still, it is better than the idea of converting people at sword point like so many Christians and Muslims have done, not to mention extorting belief in exchange for food and other necessities as some of the more aggressive missionaries have been accused of doing (most likely correctly in many cases).

I just remove the "seal" information from my files--I don't need it and the Mormon Church is sure as Hades not going to lose it unless a terrorist gets into every genealogy centre and Temple in the world and their giant nuclear-bomb proof mountain in Utah. I'd love to see the inside of that baby and to see what kind of family tree they could put together for me from their files. I have topped 25,000 names myself, but a lot of them are people I know aren't related to me but who would become a problem if I just ignored them. I have a surfeit of some families around my "brick walls" because I haven't totally figured out which one is the right one and proven it beyond a doubt.

I found a marriage certificate for a very likely candidate as sister of my hardest brick wall. She is the daughter, according to a death certificate and other trees, of the very man I have been convinced is No. 1 Candidate for the missing father of my man. Dectective work is fun, but it isn't proven yet and may never be proven. Nonetheless, taking all the clues together, I am over 90% certain I have broken through a brick wall that nobody has yet pierced and found parents which few if any researchers have even considered.

Another brick wall of mine was demolished to my satisfaction a few days earlier. My proof relies on circumstantail evidence but I am even more certain I am right because the circumstantial evidence is quite plentiful and good. Say 95% certainty. I could be wrong, but you have to take chances once in a while and this might be one of those stories where the detective has to bluff to get a confession out of the suspect--or possibly another suspect.

brantgoose:I don't think much of baptizing dead people--seems unnecessary--they can choose their fate on Judgment Day even in the eschatology of many more conventional religious denominations and sects, but I do find their genealogical research extremely useful. I have run across allusions to ancestors being "sealed" to so-and-so, presumably the Mormon "sponsor". I am glad that they are not forcing Mormonism and salvation on the dead. This would be presumptuous and I can see why atheists, Jews and others get very upset even at a free-will type of situation.

Still, it is better than the idea of converting people at sword point like so many Christians and Muslims have done, not to mention extorting belief in exchange for food and other necessities as some of the more aggressive missionaries have been accused of doing (most likely correctly in many cases).

I just remove the "seal" information from my files--I don't need it and the Mormon Church is sure as Hades not going to lose it unless a terrorist gets into every genealogy centre and Temple in the world and their giant nuclear-bomb proof mountain in Utah. I'd love to see the inside of that baby and to see what kind of family tree they could put together for me from their files. I have topped 25,000 names myself, but a lot of them are people I know aren't related to me but who would become a problem if I just ignored them. I have a surfeit of some families around my "brick walls" because I haven't totally figured out which one is the right one and proven it beyond a doubt.

I found a marriage certificate for a very likely candidate as sister of my hardest brick wall. She is the daughter, according to a death certificate and other trees, of the very man I have been convinced is No. 1 Candidate for the missing father of my man. Dectective work is fun, but it isn't proven yet and may never be proven. Nonetheless, taking all the clues together, I am over 90% certain I have broken through a brick wall that nobody has yet pierced and found parents which few if any researchers have even considered.

Another brick wall of mine was demolished to my satisfaction a few days earlier. My proof relies on circumstantail evidence but I am even more certain I am right because the circumstantial evidence is quite plentiful and good. Say 95% certainty. I could be wrong, but you have to take chances once in a while and this might be one of those stories where the detective has to bluff to get a confession out of the suspect--or possibly another suspect.

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor:If God wouldn't allow Vlad out of Purgatory for his heroic defense against the Ottoman hordes then he is not God and we needn't worry.

Precisely. Not only was Vlad Drakulya properly baptised anyhow into the True Faith of the Church of Rome, but he spent much of his lifetime torturing and killing the Infidel. Heck, if Mother Church hadn't become so namby-pamby in the last century, we'd have old Vlad on the short list for canonisation.

The Pope has amended a Vatican pronouncement that the Roman Catholic Church was the "only way to salvation", saying that Heaven is open to all as long as they are good. He said at an audience that "all of the just on Earth, including those who ignore Christ and his Church" were "called upon to build the kingdom of God."

VATICAN CITY, DEC. 6, 2000 (ZENIT.org).- Every person is called to "collaborate" with the coming of the Kingdom of God, John Paul II said, in an urgent appeal for cooperation between believers and nonbelievers. In today's general audience address, the Pope said: "All the righteous on earth, even those who do not know Christ and his Church and who, under the influence of grace, seek God with a sincere heart, are ... called to build the Kingdom of God, cooperating with the Lord who is the first and decisive architect."

phrawgh:The Pope has amended a Vatican pronouncement that the Roman Catholic Church was the "only way to salvation", saying that Heaven is open to all as long as they are good. He said at an audience that "all of the just on Earth, including those who ignore Christ and his Church" were "called upon to build the kingdom of God."

VATICAN CITY, DEC. 6, 2000 (ZENIT.org).- Every person is called to "collaborate" with the coming of the Kingdom of God, John Paul II said, in an urgent appeal for cooperation between believers and nonbelievers. In today's general audience address, the Pope said: "All the righteous on earth, even those who do not know Christ and his Church and who, under the influence of grace, seek God with a sincere heart, are ... called to build the Kingdom of God, cooperating with the Lord who is the first and decisive architect."

"Perhaps now would be a good time to consider praying to your impotent god. Followed by a course of pissing yourself...."

I prefer the abridged Alucard.

Hellsing: Vampire. Your land lies in ruins. Castles plundered, servants destroyed, villages razed, all to end the hellfire with which you sought to cover the world. What do you have to say for yourself?

Krymson Tyde:Matticus: Lionel Mandrake: Currently, Mormons believe baptism is necessary for an individual to exit from "Spirit Prison" - a place akin to purgatory in the Catholic Church. Anyone outside the Mormon faith enters Spirit Prison at the time of their death.

Even Jesus?

I guess they've probably baptized Him by now.

wasn't jesus already baptized?

Sure, but he wasn't Mormon baptized and so was locked out of Heaven.

He must have been pretty annoyed waiting 1800 years for Mormons to come along.

I am glad that they are not forcing Mormonism and salvation on the dead. This would be presumptuous and I can see why atheists, Jews and others get very upset even at a free-will type of situation.

Most people that get worked up miss the free-will part. Mormons feel those rites are essential for every person, including those that never met a mormon, so they make the rites available by proxy. It is critical to their doctrine that the person being baptized can still accept or not accept, and still would have to qualify for their heaven to get in, etc.

It's an unusual practice, but compared to other religions, it's hardly all that weird. It's just a baptism, except the priest says, "I baptize you on behalf of ... " or something like that.

It was a natural evolution of thought. Someone asked Joseph Smith what about those that never were baptized by his priests, since he said it was essential for salvation, and he said, "Huh ... I should come up with something for that." (Though Mormons describe it as divine revelation, of course.)

/ former mormon// it was a long time ago/// no, I never knocked on your door ... so at least there's that.