SQLServerCentral.com / Article Discussions / Article Discussions by Author / Discuss content posted by Janki Patel / Database Snapshot / Latest PostsInstantForum.NET v2.9.0SQLServerCentral.comhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/notifications@sqlservercentral.comTue, 31 Mar 2015 15:00:54 GMT20RE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxI choose the "None of the above" option too for same reason I haven't seen mentioned yet: snapshots are an Enterprise/Developer edition only feature. More it was never said what type of SQL Server was concerned 2000, 2005, 2008 or even SQL 7 ?Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:19:26 GMTjfgoudeRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxThanks for the question.Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:45:44 GMTSQLRNNRRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxI choose the "None of the above" option for a reason I haven't seen mentioned yet: snapshots are an Enterprise/Developer edition only feature. Therefore, on lower versions of SQL Server, no recovery model supports them.Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:42:46 GMTshaun.stuartRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxThis was a good question, with a clearly correct answer.All the suggestions that "none of the above" is the correct answer surprised me, and the absolutely illogical arguments supporting that position surprised me even more. It seems to me that people fell into an obvious error, and did itsolely because they were looking for a non-existent trick in the question: multivalued logics are far better than two valued logics in many circumstances, but you have to decide what the values other than "true" and "false" mean and if you don't have meanings for those values you don't have a meaningful multivalued logic - and it seems quite clear from the arguments presented that there was no attempt to assign any particular meaning to any truth value that was "none of the above".It might be arguable that because the recovery model has nothing to do with supporting database snapshots the correct answer should be "false" because it is not the recovery model that actually supports it but something else, but it is absolute nonsense to conclude that because there are some databases which don't permit database snapshot the correct answer is neither "true" nor "false".Mon, 15 Nov 2010 05:50:02 GMTTomThomsonRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxfor more info :http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms189940.aspxThu, 11 Nov 2010 02:25:54 GMTpravin waghRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxI agree that the question is good, and TRUE is the correct answer. The question is "All Recovery Models support Database Snapshots." which is true, as they do. However not all [b]databases[/b] support database snapshots.The question wasn't "You can create a database snapshot of any database regardless of the recovery model." or "All Databases support Database Snapshots."Wed, 10 Nov 2010 09:48:20 GMTUMG DeveloperRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxThere is no grey area on this.As far as recovery models are concerned the are all supported by DB snapshot.This IS a question on the MS SQL DBA exam and you would have missed it if you marked it anything other than True.Get a grip Travis and stop trying to confuse others into making mistakes on simple easy answers. :satisfied:Wed, 10 Nov 2010 08:16:04 GMTSanDroidRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]SanDroid (11/10/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]TravisDBA (11/10/2010)[/b][hr][quote]So peope will take careful pause the next time they post a question taken right from BOL, as we all have to do, and realize that just because something is posted literally in BOL at one point in the article does not automatically mean that it is always 100% correct, applicable, or suitable for the QOTD as stated in BOL. [/quote]Travis? really? Do you beat you children with that whip also?Nice way to treat the new guy. Can't wait till your next QOTD. I think I can see the flames from here already....:crazy:[/quote]You're missing the point. My point is don't take individual single BOL statements literally. You have to read the whole article first and take the entire article in context before posting a possible misleading and confusing question to QOTD. That applies to everyone, not just one person, regardless of number of posts a person has. :-DWed, 10 Nov 2010 08:07:18 GMTTravisDBARE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]TravisDBA (11/10/2010)[/b][hr][quote]So peope will take careful pause the next time they post a question taken right from BOL, as we all have to do, and realize that just because something is posted literally in BOL at one point in the article does not automatically mean that it is always 100% correct, applicable, or suitable for the QOTD as stated in BOL. [/quote]Travis? really? Do you beat you children with that whip also?Nice way to treat the new guy. Can't wait till your next QOTD. I think I can see the flames from here already....:crazy:Wed, 10 Nov 2010 07:15:21 GMTSanDroidRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]janki_2886 (11/10/2010)[/b][hr]@OLD Hand: My Only intention, was to post a easy question(which , according to u was a dumb question),so that everyone can answer that. Not all of them are as genius as you. Apart From this I did provided resource to refer too. This was my very first post and i don't think i have choose a wrong question or bad answer options.Sometimes, Knowing So much makes a easy question, most difficult one.What if the same question was asked in any of the certifications exams??There is No Such Rule: To Put a hard question or not to put any question directly from BOL. If it would have been they would have not publish question or just rejected this question when i posted it.[/quote]Just a side mark:old hand is not the person's nickname. It is a status derived from the number of points the person has on this website (points for answering QotD + points for forum posts). Your status for example is Valued Member, for the moment. If you refer to Old Hand, we have no idea to who you are actually referring to.The actual nickname is above this status, or if there is a picture, above the picture, displayed in bold. Thus, the real nickname of "Old Hand" is TravisDBA.Wed, 10 Nov 2010 06:31:12 GMTKoen VerbeeckRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx@OLD Hand: My Only intention, was to post a easy question(which , according to u was a dumb question),so that everyone can answer that. Not all of them are as genius as you. Apart From this I did provided resource to refer too. This was my very first post and i don't think i have choose a wrong question or bad answer options.Sometimes, Knowing So much makes a easy question, most difficult one.What if the same question was asked in any of the certifications exams??There is No Such Rule: To Put a hard question or not to put any question directly from BOL. If it would have been they would have not publish question or just rejected this question when i posted it.Wed, 10 Nov 2010 05:40:30 GMTjankiRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]janki_2886 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]@OLD Hand : If its a dumb question, then why are you wasting your precious time , in the discussion[/quote]So peope will take careful pause the next time they post a question taken right from BOL, as we all have to do, and realize that just because something is posted literally in BOL at one point in the article does not automatically mean that it is always 100% correct, applicable, or suitable for the QOTD as stated in BOL. This is where a little research and forethought comes in handy beforehand. For example, the statement you provided from BOL does say that in a NOTE early in the article. However, if you would have read a little further down, that earlier note has a caveat to it with this statement "Snapshots of the model, master, and tempdb databases are prohibited. " BOL now amends this earlier note with this exception regardless of the recovery model. BOL does this kind of stuff all the time. IMHO, what BOL should have accurately stated in that earlier note was "All recovery models for [b]all user and the msdb[/b] databases support database snapshots." This is why it is so important that the entire article be taken in to context when reading or quoting BOL. :-DWed, 10 Nov 2010 00:13:31 GMTTravisDBARE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]janki_2886 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]This was Question Direct from BOL, I have used same sentence as in BOL, Do you still think, its a grammer mistake.[/quote]There are hundreds of statements you could cut and paste from BOL, that doesn't make them a good QotD.Also, please don't start a grammar debate. :rolleyes:But either way, i thank the author and those that posted comments as i learned something today, i was not aware that you can't take a snapshot of a system database. (Not knowing that helped me click true :-) )Tue, 09 Nov 2010 21:47:02 GMTlukus_gRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx@OLD Hand : If its a dumb question, then why are you wasting your precious time , in the discussionTue, 09 Nov 2010 13:42:23 GMTjankiRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]SanDroid (11/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]TravisDBA (11/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote]Well, let's try this logic, BOL never has put out confusing or erroneous information in the past? :-D[/quote]More Science Logic: Since you and cengland0 do not like this simple question or it's elegant answer then you must be the ones writing the real trick QOTD's with bad un-executable code and grammer errors that have more than one right answer.I doubt that is a true statement. Must be None of the above.... :crazy:[/quote]Yeah right, that makes sense.:-PTue, 09 Nov 2010 11:56:49 GMTTravisDBARE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]TravisDBA (11/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote]Well, let's try this logic, BOL never has put out confusing or erroneous information in the past? :-D[/quote]More Science Logic: Since you and cengland0 do not like this simple question or it's elegant answer then you must be the ones writing the real trick QOTD's with bad un-executable code and grammer errors that have more than one right answer.I doubt that is a true statement. Must be None of the above.... :crazy:Tue, 09 Nov 2010 11:50:50 GMTSanDroidRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]SanDroid (11/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]cengland0 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote] I'm saying that the answer is neither True nor False but you have selected True as the only correct answer. [/quote]Lets try this logic on DB Backups...If I create a database and set it to Simple recovery I can Back it up. I can not backup the TemDB database. So I guess none of my database backups are working? The questions and the answer are a cut and paste from the books online.The only original part of this question is the incorrect answer of "None of the above".I salute the author for making a simple question exciting.[/quote]Well, let's try this logic, BOL never has put out confusing or erroneous information in the past? :-DTue, 09 Nov 2010 11:37:44 GMTTravisDBARE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]cengland0 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote] I'm saying that the answer is neither True nor False but you have selected True as the only correct answer. [/quote]Lets try this logic on DB Backups...If I create a database and set it to Simple recovery I can Back it up. I can not backup the TemDB database. So I guess none of my database backups are working? The questions and the answer are a cut and paste from the books online.The only original part of this question is the incorrect answer of "None of the above".I salute the author for making a simple question exciting.Tue, 09 Nov 2010 11:32:41 GMTSanDroidRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]cengland0 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Hugo Kornelis (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]Nice, easy question.I was wondering about the inclusion of the "none of the above" option. Was this just a joke from the question author, or will people actually choose this answer? (at this time, none have - 56% True, 44% False, 0% None of the above).[/quote]I'm one of those that selected None of the Above. That was because it has nothing to do with recovery models. The model, master, and tempdb databases are prohibited from having snapshots. That, in my opinion, means that "True" cannot be the correct answer to this question and I already know that "False" was wrong. The only other option was "None of the Above" which I thought would mean "It depends on which database."[/quote]I agree cengland0, database snapshots really have nothing to do with just the relation of the Recovery model, because all of the current recovery models support them.So, it's a moot point really. However, using database snapahots is very dependent on whether the source database is a user database versus a system database, that is relevant. The question is either a little tricky, or so obvious it's like asking what denominations of currency currently printed by the federal governmant can banks support? Well duh, all of them. Dumb question as stated IMHO :-DTue, 09 Nov 2010 11:00:40 GMTTravisDBARE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxThanks for the question.Tue, 09 Nov 2010 10:59:07 GMTUMG DeveloperRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]cengland0 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]janki_2886 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]This was Question Direct from BOL, I have used same sentence as in BOL, Do you still think, its a grammer mistake.[/quote]Not saying it's a grammar mistake. I'm saying that the answer is neither True nor False but you have selected True as the only correct answer. The correct answer should be marked as "Depends" because there are some databases that you cannot take snapshots of regardless of the recovery model.To prove my point, try to make a snapshot of the tempdb database. It's in the simple recovery model. If you can take that snapshot, then I will agree that True is the correct answer. Unfortunately you will not be able to so that's why I'm saying the "None of the Above" should be the correct answer (given the only three possible selections).[/quote]That's faulty logic. The question was about whether the simple recovery mode supports database snapshots. Can you create a user database in simple mode that then has a database snapshot? You can? Then the recovery model supports it. Just because there is a different category that does not support it doesn't invalidate the logic. System databases do not support snapshots, and those are accidentally simple recovery mode. What you are saying is that ALL simple mode databases must support snapshots for it to valid to say that "simple recovery mode supports snapshots." Far too exclusionary a restriction. There are exactly four (or five depending upon how you count) databases, none made by a user, that don't support snapshots. All others, however many you come up with, are candidates.If the QotD has become THIS picky to make people THIS paranoid on answering, then maybe it's gotten a bit over the top. The natural interpretation is the best and is an answer of "True".Tue, 09 Nov 2010 10:34:38 GMTjeff.masonRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]cengland0 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]janki_2886 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]This was Question Direct from BOL, I have used same sentence as in BOL, Do you still think, its a grammer mistake.[/quote]Not saying it's a grammar mistake. I'm saying that the answer is neither True nor False but you have selected True as the only correct answer. The correct answer should be marked as "Depends" because there are some databases that you cannot take snapshots of regardless of the recovery model.To prove my point, try to make a snapshot of the tempdb database. It's in the simple recovery model. If you can take that snapshot, then I will agree that True is the correct answer. Unfortunately you will not be able to so that's why I'm saying the "None of the Above" should be the correct answer (given the only three possible selections).[/quote]Create a database called "TestDB" with the simple recovery model. You can take a snapshot from this database. What is your point? The question was about snapshots vs recovery models, not about snapshots vs system databases.Tue, 09 Nov 2010 10:32:10 GMTKoen VerbeeckRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]janki_2886 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]This was Question Direct from BOL, I have used same sentence as in BOL, Do you still think, its a grammer mistake.[/quote]Not saying it's a grammar mistake. I'm saying that the answer is neither True nor False but you have selected True as the only correct answer. The correct answer should be marked as "Depends" because there are some databases that you cannot take snapshots of regardless of the recovery model.To prove my point, try to make a snapshot of the tempdb database. It's in the simple recovery model. If you can take that snapshot, then I will agree that True is the correct answer. Unfortunately you will not be able to so that's why I'm saying the "None of the Above" should be the correct answer (given the only three possible selections).Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:42:10 GMTcengland0RE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxThis was Question Direct from BOL, I have used same sentence as in BOL, Do you still think, its a grammer mistake.Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:27:27 GMTjankiRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxI almost forgot!I give this question fife stars for knot havings any type o's and shows correct referance meaterials and knowledge of feartures.I give it an extra star for the inclusion of the "None Of the Above" selection.Genious! :smooooth:Tue, 09 Nov 2010 08:49:25 GMTSanDroidRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]cengland0 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr][quote] That, in my opinion, means that "True" cannot be the correct answer to this question and I already know that "False" was wrong. The only other option was "None of the Above" which I thought would mean "It depends on which database."[/quote]This is why the ESP of the day was ruining the Question of the Day. Now people are selecting the wrong answer for an easy question because they are looking for the grammer mistake or the "trick". BTW: I read the books online and the exact same sentance is there that is in the question.[quote]Note All recovery models support database snapshots.[/quote] Tue, 09 Nov 2010 08:39:48 GMTSanDroidRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]Hugo Kornelis (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]Nice, easy question.I was wondering about the inclusion of the "none of the above" option. Was this just a joke from the question author, or will people actually choose this answer? (at this time, none have - 56% True, 44% False, 0% None of the above).[/quote]Hugo, 24 out of 600 (4%) replies did choose none of the above option.So, putting this option is now justified.Tue, 09 Nov 2010 08:25:47 GMTSanjayAttrayRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]steve block (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]I too chose None of the Above (interpreting that it meant ("it depends") because system databases are excluded from Database Snapshots. If you follow the logic that all Simple recovery model databases can have a Database Snapshot, you would infer that Master, Model and Msdb can have a Database Snapshot, which they cannot.Steve[/quote]Thanks Steve. I suppose my beef is that too many of these QOTD's are trick questions and you have to think of every possibility and this time I did it properly and selected the None of the Above and got it wrong. I think that was unfair because the answer I selected, for the same reason you mentioned, is a better answer than just selecting "True" because you cannot snapshot the system databases.Tue, 09 Nov 2010 07:32:50 GMTcengland0RE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxI too chose None of the Above (interpreting that it meant ("it depends") because system databases are excluded from Database Snapshots. If you follow the logic that all Simple recovery model databases can have a Database Snapshot, you would infer that Master, Model and Msdb can have a Database Snapshot, which they cannot.SteveTue, 09 Nov 2010 07:28:04 GMTsteve blockRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxNice & Easy question.Tue, 09 Nov 2010 07:27:48 GMTHardy21RE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxSir,There Were People Who Selected, "None Of the above" Option.Thinking, putting third option was a joke, is a joke itself.(':w00t:');At least I Tried !!Tue, 09 Nov 2010 05:23:58 GMTjankiRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]Sourav-657741 (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]I do agree with "england0".The system databases are excluded from Database snapshot. Question doesn't to look like correct..![/quote]The question asked what the relation was between database snapshots and recovery models.The question did not ask the relation between database snapshots and (system) databases.Tue, 09 Nov 2010 04:23:53 GMTKoen VerbeeckRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxI do agree with "england0".The system databases are excluded from Database snapshot. Question doesn't to look like correct..!Tue, 09 Nov 2010 03:30:45 GMTSQL-DBA-01RE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]Hugo Kornelis (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]Nice, easy question.I was wondering about the inclusion of the "none of the above" option. Was this just a joke from the question author, or will people actually choose this answer? (at this time, none have - 56% True, 44% False, 0% None of the above).[/quote]I'm one of those that selected None of the Above. That was because it has nothing to do with recovery models. The model, master, and tempdb databases are prohibited from having snapshots. That, in my opinion, means that "True" cannot be the correct answer to this question and I already know that "False" was wrong. The only other option was "None of the Above" which I thought would mean "It depends on which database."Tue, 09 Nov 2010 03:25:42 GMTcengland0RE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxI can't believe people have actually clicked on "None of the above" :-DTue, 09 Nov 2010 03:03:36 GMTRichardDouglasRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxNice question! It made me do some reading-up on a feauture I've never used so far.Allways good to refresh those areas once in a while.Really like the "none of the above" answer, and will chck back to see if someone actually checked that at the end of the day. :-)Tue, 09 Nov 2010 02:52:49 GMTPeter RijsRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote]Maybe an attempt to introduce trinary logic? Or should the third option have been NULL? ;-)[/quote]Please, do not start a discussion about NULLs. :-DTue, 09 Nov 2010 02:03:37 GMTCarlo RomagnanoRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]Hugo Kornelis (11/9/2010)[/b]I was wondering about the inclusion of the "none of the above" option. Was this just a joke from the question author, or will people actually choose this answer? (at this time, none have - 56% True, 44% False, 0% None of the above).[/quote]Maybe an attempt to introduce trinary logic? Or should the third option have been NULL? ;-)Tue, 09 Nov 2010 01:48:43 GMTpaul.knibbsRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspxit is all recovery models support database snapshotTue, 09 Nov 2010 01:45:41 GMTnaresh.tallaRE: Database Snapshothttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1017577-2832-1.aspx[quote][b]Hugo Kornelis (11/9/2010)[/b][hr]Nice, easy question.I was wondering about the inclusion of the "none of the above" option. Was this just a joke from the question author, or will people actually choose this answer? (at this time, none have - 56% True, 44% False, 0% None of the above).[/quote]You should wait the end of day! :-D:-DTue, 09 Nov 2010 01:33:47 GMTCarlo Romagnano