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The Patriot Act was not really Constitutional... the courts just approved it (kinda) because of public opinion. The rule of public opinion is as dangerous as the rule of a mob.Yes but Obama even signed it.
NO amount of legislation (or restriction) is gonna change the attitude of a person's heart (their thinking, feeling, and decision-making). The idea the govt can reduce risk by passing a gazillion laws... well so far the track record of that attitude shows it does not work... Actually it causes more problems than it solves. Folks who believe that BS... deserve what they get from believing that lie. Don't get me wrong, its a fact that laws don't protect people. They only give the Govt reason to arrest and prosecute someone.

We as a nation have lost our moral fiber and focus... we need leadership that will instill this back into society... and it will not feel good to do so. Crime MUST be punished, folks must WORK for a living, and most of all; choices must have predictable consequences.

This 'feel good' without 'consequences' society is destructive to ALL... it needs to be discarded and replaced with a more traditional society of responsibility and consequences.

Morality is one of the few reasons that keep our society civil. Fear of repercussions is another. If people dont fear govt or prison or death, they certainly aren't going to care less about laws and human life.

Originally Posted by corny

We dont have the resources to check out every tom dick and harry who buys this stuff......cause there are a lot of people who buy it.I understand but the Patriot Act wad supposed to allow the Govt to investigate domestic terrorism. Another failed govt program.
They sell "fashionable" body armor for people who want to wear it but dont want to look like they are wearing it......

Large quantities of ammo over the net...... no big deal anymore......swat and tactical items......folks like to buy that stuff...... Lots of people buy it.....

Timmy Mcveigh didnt use a gun...... he bought tons of fertilizer and diesel fuel..... The 911 guys used box cutters......

Nothing we can do will ever stop this stuff from happening...... If this guy couldnt get guns and ammo he probably would have built a bomb....

Just sayin, if i have to sign a form every time I buy sudaphed, and i buy too much, the police are notified. Why are bullets any different? Not saying you shouldn't be allowed to just that to me sends up a red flag.

Well what would you do corny? Would you scurry away like a rat or stand up to the bad guy like a hero and smash a box of pop-corn into his head? Maybe some red-hots if you have them, milk-duds God willing.

Unless you are some kinda Rambo dude, not fair to pick on other guys for wanting to be armed for defense.

"You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

I like having infraction points, it makes me feel like 'one of the guys'.

"I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

Well what would you do corny? Would you scurry away like a rat or stand up to the bad guy like a hero and smash a box of pop-corn into his head? Maybe some red-hots if you have them, milk-duds God willing.

Unless you are some kinda Rambo dude, not fair to pick on other guys for wanting to be armed for defense.

I dont actually know what I would do Toolslinger....... as Ive stated a couple of times.....we can all sit here and say what we would do but the truth is we will never know for sure until we are put in that situation.

Im pretty busted up Toolslinger.....I couldnt even do yard work this weekend because my right leg is in so much pain. I couldnt exactly run if I wanted to... Id probably have to either stand my ground if armed or drop to the ground if not.

Maybe the worm..... but Im not sure if Im limber enough for that.....

But seriously...... We really dont know what we would do..... do we ......

And this isnt about being armed..... I am not against guns....... I like guns though I just have no interest in them anymore...... and Im not against people going armed.....

Im just saying...... till the shtf..... we can theorize all we want on how we are going to handle the situation but we wont know for sure till it happens.

I still believe that were at least some armed folks in there.....and they made the decision to not return fire for whatever reasons.....

It was a crowded movie theater for goodness sakes...... imagine that scene.... dark....people being shot......people running everywhere......smoke...

Not a simple task to find the target and fire off a couple of shots......

I dont actually know what I would do Toolslinger....... as Ive stated a couple of times.....we can all sit here and say what we would do but the truth is we will never know for sure until we are put in that situation.

Im pretty busted up Toolslinger.....I couldnt even do yard work this weekend because my right leg is in so much pain. I couldnt exactly run if I wanted to... Id probably have to either stand my ground if armed or drop to the ground if not.

Maybe the worm..... but Im not sure if Im limber enough for that.....

But seriously...... We really dont know what we would do..... do we ......

And this isnt about being armed..... I am not against guns....... I like guns though I just have no interest in them anymore...... and Im not against people going armed.....

Im just saying...... till the shtf..... we can theorize all we want on how we are going to handle the situation but we wont know for sure till it happens.

I still believe that were at least some armed folks in there.....and they made the decision to not return fire for whatever reasons.....

It was a crowded movie theater for goodness sakes...... imagine that scene.... dark....people being shot......people running everywhere......smoke...

Not a simple task to find the target and fire off a couple of shots......

That was a sick situation, I just want everyone to have a chance to be armed and defend themselves.

I figure either you or I could have been a hero or coward in that situation. No chance on the former without a gun. I advocate distributing guns freely and let the chips fall where they may. I honestly see no advantage of anyplace who has gun control.

"You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

I like having infraction points, it makes me feel like 'one of the guys'.

"I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

That was a sick situation, I just want everyone to have a chance to be armed and defend themselves.

I figure either you or I could have been a hero or coward in that situation. No chance on the former without a gun. I advocate distributing guns freely and let the chips fall where they may. I honestly see no advantage of anyplace who has gun control.

I think some liability ins co's actually do give a small discount for that sign being posted. Amazing as it sounds...

MeThinks this will be the end of that idea... as the theatre chain and their insurance co will probably go broke from the lawsuits.

While we are on the subject... does anyone know any statistics on this scenario:
Situation with an idiot and a gun; armed and trained guy takes him out; then gets arrested and prosecuted for carrying a gun at a place with a 'no gun' sign? Ever happen?

I think some liability ins co's actually do give a small discount for that sign being posted. Amazing as it sounds...

MeThinks this will be the end of that idea... as the theatre chain and their insurance co will probably go broke from the lawsuits.

While we are on the subject... does anyone know any statistics on this scenario:
Situation with an idiot and a gun; armed and trained guy takes him out; then gets arrested and prosecuted for carrying a gun at a place with a 'no gun' sign? Ever happen?

I seem to remember a case as you describe in Texas- A guy in a restaurant, faces off with an assailant and he gets charged. Something about he wasn't personally threatened or didn't retreat, so he shouldn't have pulled his weapon.

I'll try to find it.

BTW, I've got a friend in insurance. To my understanding the theater doesn't seem to have much exposure according to what I know so far. Basically, no negligence.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.

First off to get it out of the way, We have a ban around here on people buying body armor, it seems the only ones that really want it are the criminals, the low thugs on the totem pole, who want to go cause trouble and have a measure of invincibility from the other bad guys and the cops.

Now as far as stopping this from happening again, be it by disarming everyone or by more people being armed instead, the jacka$$ that decides he wanted to become famous by killing a lot of people will just find another method of doing it or take precautions, like armor, in order to carry out their twisted desire.

There is nothing we can do to stop someone from killing others especially if they do not care if they live to see the next day. And it should be equally obvious having a death penalty is not going to stop them either.

So what can we do? Well we could kill the gaming industry. End the shooting games. Mind you that would just create a black market for them, now that the cat is out of the bag people will need their fix.

Another option is to remove all mention of the shooter's name as some of the news outlets have done. What is it that these people crave more than anything? To be special and famous. It is real hard doing it the usual way, becoming a world class athlete, a rock star, a Bill Gates. It is real easy to load up on guns and ammo and take out a couple dozen people. Heck, get as much practice as you need playing a game or two first.

Take away the infamy and many of the wack jobs will have less reason to do it. Mind you the public has a right to know, right? We need our fix of sensational news as much as the ones making the news.

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. Mark Twain

First off to get it out of the way, We have a ban around here on people buying body armor, it seems the only ones that really want it are the criminals, the low thugs on the totem pole, who want to go cause trouble and have a measure of invincibility from the other bad guys and the cops.

Now as far as stopping this from happening again, be it by disarming everyone or by more people being armed instead, the jacka$$ that decides he wanted to become famous by killing a lot of people will just find another method of doing it or take precautions, like armor, in order to carry out their twisted desire.

There is nothing we can do to stop someone from killing others especially if they do not care if they live to see the next day. And it should be equally obvious having a death penalty is not going to stop them either.

So what can we do? Well we could kill the gaming industry. End the shooting games. Mind you that would just create a black market for them, now that the cat is out of the bag people will need their fix.

Another option is to remove all mention of the shooter's name as some of the news outlets have done. What is it that these people crave more than anything? To be special and famous. It is real hard doing it the usual way, becoming a world class athlete, a rock star, a Bill Gates. It is real easy to load up on guns and ammo and take out a couple dozen people. Heck, get as much practice as you need playing a game or two first.

Take away the infamy and many of the wack jobs will have less reason to do it. Mind you the public has a right to know, right? We need our fix of sensational news as much as the ones making the news.

Printer, you are in outer space,

I am going to play two hours of "call of duty" in honor of your post,

"You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

I like having infraction points, it makes me feel like 'one of the guys'.

"I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

I seem to remember a case as you describe in Texas- A guy in a restaurant, faces off with an assailant and he gets charged. Something about he wasn't personally threatened or didn't retreat, so he shouldn't have pulled his weapon.

I'll try to find it.

not finding it. I'm not sure if I'm remembering it incorrectly or I can't find it.

There's always this, but I suspect most CCW advocates have already seen her before:

you can try and regulate anything and everything, no one is ever going to regulate behavior.

Even some of the Main stream media is beginning to realize that no amount of regulation and control was going to stop a mad man

On top of all the hype, I did hear the nutballs AR-15 with the drum Mag jammed (a common problem with drum mags) and he switched to one of the other weapons he had.

If we include all the explosives he had in his apartment, this nutcase was not going to be denied his reign of terror.

Im going to get flamed for this, but...

as far as all the keyboard hero's on the internet that say they would have drawn there personal carry weapon and ended this quickly......maybe if this happened in a semi-lit or lighted area you would have a small chance of engaging an active shooter, but in a DARK room, with smoke and tear gas (supposedly) with a hundred innocent people running for cover, your better off keeping your weapon holstered and running for cover yourself. You make a mistake and take out an innocent person.....your screwed and there goes your hero status.

Use some common sense. Dark room, smoke, and lots of potential collateral damage and an active shooter. Stay calm, stay down, be a good witness, run for the exit.