One of the best dissertation on the importance of this election. A must read! written by Mathew Manweller... Central Washington University political science professor...

"In that this will be my last column before the presidential election, there will be no sarcasm, no attempts at witty repartee. The topic is too serious, and the stakes are too high.

This November we will vote in the only election during our lifetime that will truly matter. Because America is at a once-in-a-generation crossroads, more than an election hangs in the balance. Down one path lies retreat, abdication and a reign of ambivalence. Down the other lies a nation that is aware of its past and accepts the daunting obligation its future demands. If we choose poorly, the consequences will echo through the next 50 years of history. If we, in a spasm of frustration, turn out the current occupant of the White House, the message to the world and ourselves will be two-fold.

First, we will reject the notion that America can do big things.

Once a nation that tamed a frontier, stood down the Nazis and stood upon the moon, we will announce to the world that bringing democracy to the Middle East is too big of a task for us. But more significantly, we will signal to future presidents that as voters, we are unwilling to tackle difficult challenges, preferring caution to boldness, embracing the mediocrity that has characterized other civilizations. The defeat of President Bush will send a chilling message to future presidents who may need to make difficult, yet unpopular decisions. America has always been a nation that rises to the demands of history regardless of the costs or appeal. If we turn away from that legacy, we turn away from who we are.

Second, we inform every terrorist organization on the globe that the lesson of Somalia was well learned. In Somalia we showed terrorists that you don't need to defeat America on the battlefield when you can defeat them in the newsroom. They learned that a wounded America can become a defeated America.

Twenty-four-hour news stations and daily tracing polls will do the heavy lifting, turning a cut into a fatal blow. Except that Iraq is Somalia times 10. The election of John Kerry will serve notice to every terrorist in every cave that the soft underbelly of American power is the timidity of American voters. Terrorists will know that a steady stream of grizzly photos for CNN is all you need to break the will of the American people. Our own self-doubt will take it from there. Bin Laden will recognize that he can topple any American administration without setting foot on the homeland.

It is said that America's W.W.II generation is its 'greatest generation'. But my greatest fear is that it will become known as America's 'last generation.' Born in the bleakness of the Great Depression and hardened in the fire of WW II, they may be the last American generation that understands the meaning of duty, honor and sacrifice. It is difficult to admit, but I know these terms are spoken with only hollow detachment by many (but not all) in my generation. Too many citizens today mistake 'living in America' as 'being an American.' But America has always been more of an idea than a place. When you sign on, you do more than buy real estate. You accept a set of values and responsibilities.

This November, my generation, which has been absent too long, must grasp the obligation that comes with being an American, or fade into the oblivion they may deserve.

I believe that 100 years from now historians will look back at the election of 2004 and see it as the decisive election of our century. Depending on the outcome, they will describe it as the moment America joined the ranks of ordinary nations; or they will describe it as the moment the prodigal sons and daughters of the greatest generation accepted their burden as caretakers of the City on the Hill."

***Once a nation that tamed a frontier, stood down the Nazis and stood upon the moon, we will announce to the world that bringing democracy to the Middle East is too big of a task for us. But more significantly, we will signal to future presidents that as voters, we are unwilling to tackle difficult challenges, preferring caution to boldness, embracing the mediocrity that has characterized other civilizations. The defeat of President Bush will send a chilling message to future presidents who may need to make difficult, yet unpopular decisions. America has always been a nation that rises to the demands of history regardless of the costs or appeal. If we turn away from that legacy, we turn away from who we are.***

Yes! If we don't stand now, the next time we have to defend ourselves, the enemy will have more resolve to fight.

If sKerry slims his way into the WH, look for the American Civil War part two to begin unfolding.

My fahter's been saying that since the 1970's, he figured it would have happened from 1985 to 1990, well he's at least half a generation off but htere are times I wonder if he was on to something. Back then, it was considered "tin foil hat" territory. Even the DUmmies over at Democratic Underground are talking about it. There are times I wonder if we have reached a point of irreconcilable differences and it is over but the fighting or peaceful breakup or whatever. I know I'm talking about this more and more and I still feel uncomfortable about it, but I cannot help these thoughts. Has the United States as we've known her "jumped the shark?" I know if that phrase existed in the 1970's, my father would have used it. Before I get slammer for saying "jumped the shark," I mean not for us, most of us here do believe in the old Republic and what it stood/stands for, maybe not as strong in some areas as in others and vice versa, let's face it, we are all different but we do believe that we need a good country with traditional policies and a strong defense and we cannot go wobbly.

I found this site, John Titor.com about a time traveller from 2036 who outfitted a 1967 Camaro (from the interior I thought it was a 1968 Pontiac LeMans, we had one, it reminded of that car) and went back to 1975 and 2000/2001. Even if you don't believe the time travel story, myswelf, I feel anything is possible but must be tested, still the story he tells about a possible civil war in the future. Myself, "John Titor" could be someone of a Conservative/Judeo-Christian/Traditionalist/Libertarian (tough to pin it down, there are elements of all in there) who is trying to get that message out in the story.

I feel it too, families and friend splitting up and so on. When I bring it up, many do think I'm just a Rambo wannabe. Not true, frankly, I'm scared to think about it. We are losing the country we believe it and many of us here hate to see that. FrankenKerry, if he gets in, we are screwed to put it in a nutshell. I could almost weep as I type this.

A don't know what the future holds, but I think if we keep President Bush in office, we stand a good chance of preserving what we have. Of course, the DUmmies might go ape, but at least we would have the upper hand.

For fifty years, the left in this country has worked day and night through the media, courts, schools, universities, and government at all levels to destroy American Nationalism in the foolish belief that this would be the only way to bring on the "New World Order". In fact what they have actually accomplished is the fall of Western Civilisation and the possible beginning of the next Dark Age. Western Europe is already finished. By the end of this century it will be completely Islamitized. Civil War II will be the opening drama in what will come to be know as the Great Downfall. It may very well indeed come down to the outcome of this next election.

Why don't people get this? Why are there so many that hate Bush with an inexplicable intensity? We didn't hate Clinton the way they hate Bush!

Well, the way I see it is the only way they might be happy is if President Bush would nail himself to a cross, then again maybe that wouldn't be too good for them. I didn't wish that on Clinton at all, as long as he was out of office, I'd be happy.

For fifty years, the left in this country has worked day and night through the media, courts, schools, universities, and government at all levels to destroy American Nationalism in the foolish belief that this would be the only way to bring on the "New World Order". In fact what they have actually accomplished is the fall of Western Civilisation and the possible beginning of the next Dark Age. Western Europe is already finished. By the end of this century it will be completely Islamitized. Civil War II will be the opening drama in what will come to be know as the Great Downfall. It may very well indeed come down to the outcome of this next election.

Playing future historian, I can forsee when Western Europe is Islamic, there could be a two front war for the Russians, Eastern Europe, and the rest of the former USSR. They will have to face troops to the south AND west. Red China, I always felt they would be our next enemy in a cold war but if the Islamists do gain a foothold, they are just as fearful of them as we are so we might have an ally there, only time will tell if it is just for convenience or actually true. You might have a Russian/Red Chinese Bloc in Eurasia. The Indians will be a part of this too so they could be the third major player in Eurasia.

Civil War II or no, you might see a mass exodus of Europeans to the United States, more so if we incur any population losses, there will be more open land. I'm sure there are many Europeans just as miffed as we are at all of this but the PC crowd has taken a foothold in their countries, they are silenced through fear and so on.

The United States and Canada, well, depending what happens, you might have a weaken "rump USA" (or if we managed to hold together, USA) join with Russia/Red China/India/et al in the war against Islamo-Fascism. The Islamo-Fascists with the nuclear arsenals of the French and UK, God knows, they might build more, might launch a nuclear strike on the four major powers against them, and their allies, we fire back, and boom!

Well, just an abstract on some thoughts here. Timetable, I can't say, maybe 2010 onward. It's kind of iffy though, you cannot really assign a "when" although the "if" is more clear.

I think I got my scenario for my Morrow Project role playing game, too bad it could happen. B-P

No, they are not cowards. They are socialists/communists who know that their years of planning and manipulation of media, government, education, entertainment and religion can become a reality in a little over three weeks. John Kerry and others have been implanted in our government waiting for their moment to rise up and this is it. Kerry is no accident.

No, they are not cowards. They are socialists/communists who know that their years of planning and manipulation of media, government, education, entertainment and religion can become a reality in a little over three weeks. John Kerry and others have been implanted in our government waiting for their moment to rise up and this is it. Kerry is no accident.

I've noticed this to. I even noticed that one imbecile had enough brain cells left to point out the fact that it's the right that has all the guns. He seemed deeply depressed by this prospect.

I saw that too, if we went toe to toe, I think most DUmmies in the fight would have a "life expectancy of a pizza in a college dorm room." Believe me, I used to deliver pizza, I know all about that. B-) At least he had enough brain cells left to notice that truth. I think mosto f the military would be on our side too. I work in a photo lab in a drug store while looking for better employment (aqt least I'm not sitting on my butt waiting for FrankenKerry to bring manna from Heaven), I work with a 20 year old lady who is married to a tank driver in the Army who might be sent to Iraq as soon as he's out of training. She and her husband are deathly scared of FrankenKerry getting in.

No, they are not cowards. They are socialists/communists who know that their years of planning and manipulation of media, government, education, entertainment and religion can become a reality in a little over three weeks. John Kerry and others have been implanted in our government waiting for their moment to rise up and this is it. Kerry is no accident.

I think Joe McCarthy was right, maybe a generation or two off, but as each day goes on, I'm convinced more and more that he was right.

If sKerry gets elected, look for a subtle or maybe not so subtle shift in the makeup of the armed forces. You saw some of the shape of things to come under the Klintoon administration. The Libs do indeed fear the current military.

Civil War II... I have also been thinking a lot about this lately. As of now, I'm not sure this war is coming. But it certainly could.

I've also been thinking about what Sir Tyler wrote 200 years ago:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can exist only until voters discover that they can vote themselves largesses from the public treasury. From that time on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

"The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage."

To me this seems almost prophetic. I'm thinking we're in the "complacency to apathy" stage.

Three (3) count'em, trois, tres, drei SUPREME COURTS JUSTICES. Did I mention that THREE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES are at stake. This is Thermopylae and where are we gonna find 300 Spartans. Armageddon. Boys and girls were playing for the future, nay the existence of WESTERN CIVILIZATION. Any questions? Go Bush!

I agree, if we can't stand firm now, as we are under President Bush, and elect weaklings that are intimidated by the whore media, that acquiesce to Political Correctness and popularity ratings then we send a message of defeat to all our enemies. That horrific event would show the world that America will bow to opinion rather than uphold principle. sKerry must not win!

I think with the way the country is divided, anything is possible. I would lean more toward the left beginning an armed conflict, but if Kerry won under dubious circumstances I think a major revolt on the right would take place. I think we have already started down the path to a second civil war.

You asked if I would personally get involved in an armed conflict. If it meant protecting American citizens and my family or defending the Government then yes I would. Without question.

37
posted on 10/12/2004 2:13:01 PM PDT
by Shaun_MD
(Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - In times of War the Law will Fall Silent - Cicero)

We've been in the war a long time. What will come, will come gradually. Just look at the last two years: Anti-sodomy laws struck down, gay marriage, even the most modest of restrictions on abortion consistently struck down with no Constitutional basis, the Ten Commandments removed from a courthouse in the South.

Possible future developments based on our current trajectory:

* Revocation of tax-exempt status for churches. * Fines and punishment for speaking publicly against leaders. * Fines and punishment for speaking publicly against protected constituent groups, incl. sermons referencing abortion and homosexuality. * Pledge of Allegience removed from all classrooms. * Federally-maintained list of suspicious "insurgents", known to hold beliefs at odds with the government and an impediment to the international vision. * Federal usurping of large chunks of industry, for our "protection".

* Removal of our guns.

Much of this has been and can be effected through taxation patterns, as we've seen in the last decade with so-called "sin taxes".

I don't rule out an all-out civil war, which is why I say again, arm yourselves for your own protection.

Civil War II or no, you might see a mass exodus of Europeans to the United States

No thanks, we don't want them. They're the folks that are responsible for Western Europe being flushed down the crapper in the first place. Its like NYC residents fleeing to NJ - and now look at what has happened to NJ over the last 20 years, its become a carbon copy of NYC in many ways.

You're generalizing. European nations are generally a democracy. It's the majority that have elected socialists to power over and over that are to blame. There are still many there we DO want here. They would be an asset.

After reading a few of the other's posts, I'm not at all shocked, Lexinom.

Ever since we came to Northern Kentucky, and it's been long explained to me, that those states that are a Common Wealth and a few other states have in the past made vocal, their opinions and feelings about a separation. There are quite a few states here along the East Coast and in the MidEast America that would rather be governed like a CommonWealth than a Federation.

When I first heard this, I was like: "Great!" No More Clinton! LOL

Now I feel, while a separation seems like a good idea, it's not going to solve the ongoing hatred Americans share with each other, and the other nations!

Remember Ghost Busters... the scene in NYC, where everyone sang with love and harmony....That was a short cry of reality there as to what this country really needs!

Love and Understanding is more like it! But we've long awaited this unimaginative war... Holy War?? Or War of Nations? Or War of Power? or War of Money??? What will it be?

46
posted on 10/12/2004 4:52:57 PM PDT
by CourtneyLeigh
(Why can't all of America be Commonwealth?)

After careful consideration I'd have to go with E) Brass tacks. When my government forces me to disobey the Law of God, that is when I say, "enough." For example, suppose my wife were pregnant and our government had set a limit on the number of children women could bear. We had met that threshold. The law demanded she have an abortion. That is a hypothetical that must be fought, and hard.

Now we're not there yet, but we're getting there. We're coming to a point wherein the Left assumes a priori the truth of its beliefs to the point they thoughtlessly attempt to apply them to us all. Dissenters who don't see things their way are "irrational", not guided by "reason". Yet they all the time deny any absolute basis for reason and arrogate to themselves a fraudulent victory.

In the War Between the States, or Civil War, or War of Northern Agression (depending on your viewpoint), the South fought for state sovereignty. The North fought for national unity. Slavery was an ideological issue that ostsensibly divided brother against brother, but in reality the slave trade was never widely held in high regard even in the Old South. The despicable practice could have come to an end without a war. Contingent on the subsequent end of slavery and segregation in the South, we may have been better off as two or more nations. We'll never know.

Point is, our hope as humans is for peace not war, as illustrated in your Ghost Busters example, Marshmellow Man notwithstanding. But if we must take up arms, it will be for our fundamental rights to worship and live as we deem necessary without federal intrusion, without Big Gubmint extorting our tax dollars to indoctrinate our children with ideas we repudiate, and not the other lofty ideals. Practical, every day things. Brass tacks.

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