CAMP TAJI, Iraq  At the start of May, Iraqi Army recruits at the Regional Training Center here began receiving new M-16 and M-4 rifles.

The Iraqi government made the decision to crossover from standard AK-47 assault rifles to the American rifles as part of the reshaping of their military and security forces.

Under the program, Coalition Military Assistance Training Teams issue enlisted IA troops the M-16A4, while officers receive the M-4. With 200 basic training recruits per rotation, CMATT officials estimate that 1600 IA soldiers will receive the new weapons by the end of May.

According to Lt. Col. Walter Easter, Military Transition Team commander and senior advisor to the RTC, the exchange is as much a symbol of the new IA as it is an upgrade to the individual soldiers capabilities.

The M-16 has long been considered the worlds best rifle, Easter said. Theres a high percentage of [Iraqi Army recruits] who can shoot more accurately than we expected just because of the better weapon system that they have.

The weapon exchange is just the first step in a five-day program of instruction for the Iraqis. However, new rifles are not handed out in a one-for-one swap. Coalition Forces assign each IA recruit a weapon using a high-tech, biometric issue system.

Verified against a master list and having tuned in his old rifle, the IA soldier and his new M-16 continue on to one of ten biometric stations, where he is finger printed, undergoes a digital retinal scan and is photographed with the M16s serial number. Officials then transfer the information to a database in Baghdad, to ensure accountability and to prevent the weapon from ending up in the wrong hands.

We are very excited about it, said a 9th Iraqi Army Division second lieutenant, whose name is withheld to protect his identity. We have been hearing about getting the new weapons for some time and finally they are here.

It does a number of things for the basic IA soldier, said George Conrad, an assistant team leader providing the primary marksmanship instruction. The better weapon system puts the IA forces in sync with coalition troops and it builds their confidence.

Conrad said they have all seen change and new equipment at the higher echelons, but now, the soldier in the dirt has something new, something tangible, in his hands.

Its a sign of hope that things are changing, he said. Its something that needed to be done.

Easter said that training at the Taji RTC would continue at the company-size level, with program augmentation at Besimaya Range later this summer for IA battalions.

Probably the most telling thing about the M-16 is the fact that Commie Viet Nam has about 200,000 of them still on their hands after all these years.

Like all commie countries, they are hurting for hard currency ... but nobody wants those rifles, at any price. It's not the ammo, Russia sell .223 as as cheap as the AK-47 round. Just nobody wants them.

And after that maintenance unit got hit in Gulf War Two, can ya blame them?

5
posted on 05/11/2007 6:58:46 PM PDT
by investigateworld
(The BP guys will do more Prison Time than the Worst Jap POW camp commander,thanks W)

I believe the American military has become the model for the new Iraqi Army and anything they can do to copy or imitate our military adds to their confidence and professionalism. Weapons are just part of the package. I would doubt that pressure by the US alone would be enough to make the Iraqis switch from the familiar and widely accepted AK-47.

Depends on one's POV. For the US manufactures and their employees, great. There no risk to current technology being lost to an enemy.

But if I were an Iraqi unit commander, ya, I'd object.

Care of equipment and weapons isn't a acceptable Third World concept. (While under the influence of Oklahoma Thinking juice, a couple of buddies and myself actually buried a MAK 90 in the backyard, where sprinklers went on once a day. After a month we dug it up and drove to Lyle Creek. A quick swab with a rag and it was good to go)

9
posted on 05/11/2007 7:08:12 PM PDT
by investigateworld
(The BP guys will do more Prison Time than the Worst Jap POW camp commander,thanks W)

After the surrender they had something like 700,000 of them. That’s why you see Palestinians, latino revolutionaries, and African terrorists, etc, carrying them. Half a million of them spread out all over the world, and not to the good guys.

I’ve never seen a Latin American thug with one, but I recall seeing Mexicans in one of the rebelling southern provinces with STEN Mark 3’s. I think we gave the Pali’s about 5,000 in one of our attempts to give the Palestinian Authority some kind of respectability.

14
posted on 05/11/2007 7:16:17 PM PDT
by investigateworld
(The BP guys will do more Prison Time than the Worst Jap POW camp commander,thanks W)

I hope that works better than the Valmet M-76 I used to own.The .223 seems to be a poor choice in an AK variant,the extractor would tear the heads of the cartridges if the chamber was a bit dirty.And that was with a chrome chamber,I think an AK prefers a larger cartrige head and a shorter case length.

What government really would want a bunch of worn out M16’s from the 60’s? M16’s can be a very effective weapon, providing they’re well maintained and not worn out, but I’d bet any M16’s in VN’s armories are neither. I handled plenty of old jammomatic M16A1’s back in the 80’s and I hated them, but when they gave us new M16A2’s I had to change my opinion of them. The new rifles were both reliable and accurate.

As an owner of both (civilan versions) I can say I prefer the M-16. Take a 15K acre state park, fence it in, give me a cabin and him a cabin and give both of us supplies. Then say one of us gets an AK and the other an M-16 and that I get to pick first, I’ll pick the M-16. I know it’s limitations but if I see him at 200 yds, the game is over.

I see your point but we're talking about a Third World nation using them. So based on my experience with various types of people, I would be inclined to go with what they can handle in the day to day world.

A properly trained soldier always takes care of his 'stuff', who knows maybe our Army there will perform a miracle?

21
posted on 05/11/2007 7:33:49 PM PDT
by investigateworld
(The BP guys will do more Prison Time than the Worst Jap POW camp commander,thanks W)

We are very excited about it, said a 9th Iraqi Army Division second lieutenant, whose name is withheld to protect his identity. We have been hearing about getting the new weapons for some time and finally they are here.

As an owner of both (civilan versions) I can say I prefer the M-16. Take a 15K acre state park, fence it in, give me a cabin and him a cabin and give both of us supplies. Then say one of us gets an AK and the other an M-16 and that I get to pick first, Ill pick the M-16. I know its limitations but if I see him at 200 yds, the game is over.

That really depends on the AK in question. I haven't seen any chambered in 7.62x39 that could hold a candle to the AR for accuracy, but the ones in other calibers, (particularly the 5.56), often do quite well. I've got two in 5.56 that will shoot 2 MOA and one in .308 that will do 3. My old Mak90 on the other hand was lucky to shoot 6 MOA.

I shoot literally thousands of rounds through AR-15/M-16 variants a year. The Russian COPPER FMJ is my round of choice for target shooting; it is reliable and very clean. There was some Russians steel jacketed stuff that was very hot and caused excessive barrel wear - stopped using that.

If you’re measuring barrel erosion, I take it your a serious shooter. I have some friends coming from the UK this summer so I got a case of Golden Tiger for S & Gs. Not bad stuff, but my Winchester- Western is for me.

31
posted on 05/11/2007 8:07:10 PM PDT
by investigateworld
(The BP guys will do more Prison Time than the Worst Jap POW camp commander,thanks W)

Since this thread has a bunch of ‘keyboard kommandos’, I was wondering if I could get a straight answer to a question.

Does anyone know the standard accuracy of an AK-47? Now, I’m not talking about a cherry-picked, accurized AK. Nor am I talking about one with match ammo. I’m talking about a Third World-issued AK with Warsaw Pact ammo. One concession, maybe, with a milled receiver and not a cruddy AKM stamped receiver. I’m just curious what our Spec Forces people run across when it comes to accuracy.

Well, originally, Vietnam had almost a million of them. They sold or gave much of them away as military aid to their fellow Marxists, especially to Latin America. For example, did you know that Vietnamese ‘16s were used by the El Salvadorian FMLN, the Guatemalan URNG, the Colombian and Honduran anti-government forces, the FPMR of Chile and the Nicaraguan Sandinista govenment?

Does anyone know the standard accuracy of an AK-47? Now, Im not talking about a cherry-picked, accurized AK. Nor am I talking about one with match ammo. Im talking about a Third World-issued AK with Warsaw Pact ammo. One concession, maybe, with a milled receiver and not a cruddy AKM stamped receiver. Im just curious what our Spec Forces people run across when it comes to accuracy.

In my experience it was about 6 MOA, using a Chinese MAK90, (which, except for the stock, are considered to be decent AK's). A particularly good one like a Valmet would probably perform somewhat better. The problem seems to be mostly related to the cartridge. I have read that even AR's chambered in 7.62x39 tend to have disappointing accuracy.

If you go over to AR15.com and click on the AK47 tab you can find many threads on this subject. The consensus seems to be that AK's in 7.62x39 are capable of somewhere between 4 and 8 MOA depending on the gun in question and who you ask. AK's in other calibers do much better, but they don't seem to have the potential to be made truly accurate.

That’s because most of the 7.62X39 shot in them is cheap Russian Wolf and old surplus ammo. Accurate it ain’t The 7.62X39 ain’t no slouch itself. Various bolt-gun makers chamber it with good results. Heck the 6mmPPC widely regarded as one of the most naturally accurate cartridges ever made is a kissing cousin in design to the “Russian Short”. Also Ak’s aren’t accurate because of their designed loose tolerances. The good side of this is it allows for their legendary reliability.

No, the FAL is a symbol of the free world, in fact it was called “The Right arm of the Free world” and for good reason. Heck of a gun and if it was picked over the M14 our military would have used it for many years.

Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.