Re: Manumaleuna impresses Martz

I may be in my own little world but I'm not wearing rose colored glasses. I understand your loyalty to the Rams but I think it's very faulty. Your defense of a player or coach just because he's a Ram just doesn't hold water.

You've accused me of having some kind of agenda based on my neglecting certain questions yet you have more than once decided that "it's just not worth it" when I've presented you with questions that you don't seem to want to address.

My signature is a direct quote. I don't know how cut and dried it could be. That's what Marc Bulger said. End of story. Whatever it was he actually meant is irrelevant. What he actually said is the point. Why is that so hard for some people to cope with? If he's your favorite player you just have to deal with it. I know I've had to grin and bear it with PLENTY of things that Kurt Warner has said. He's my favorite player and I understand he's not perfect. I praise him for some of the things he does and regret some of the other things.

I think it's important that I actually take a side and admit it. I'm not trying to play both sides of the fence or lobbying to be considered altruistic and just looking out for the good of the world with my opinions. I have a position. I have come to that position for certain reasons and I defend it when necessary and even change it when the opportunity presents itself. I think it's somewhat arrogant of you to think that you're defending the sanctity of the Rams when in actuality you're defending your own beliefs and then hiding behind a shroud of altruism.

You portray yourself as an agent of good, tirelessly struggling to educate me in the "truth". Gimme a break. You think you're right and I think I'm right, but I don't try and kid myself into thinking that my opinion is the only one out there. I don't act all exhausted from debating with you like you're some crazy person that out of the generosity of my heart , I've decided to donate my invaluable time.

Own up to your opinions, speak for yourself and don't interpret what I mean, listen to what I say.

Re: Manumaleuna impresses Martz

While I'm abiding by Ferter's request that we simply agree to disagree without taking petty shots at one another, I did want to reply to some key statements to better clarify my position and try to respond to some of Mok's accusations.

Originally Posted by moklerman

You've accused me of having some kind of agenda based on my neglecting certain questions yet you have more than once decided that "it's just not worth it" when I've presented you with questions that you don't seem to want to address.

I try my best to quote and respond to every point someone makes in a debate so that I'm not accused of neglecting to answer something. I'm sorry if you feel I've not addressed certain things you've brought up, but I've really made it a priority to try and respond to every question someone poses to me. I know in past debates, I've stated things along the lines of "it's just not worth it" not to dodge questions, but rather to end what's been a lengthy debate that I perceive isn't going anywhere. I'm sorry if you feel like I've purposely ignored things. I'll make a stronger attempt in the future to address every question you post.

Originally Posted by moklerman

I think it's somewhat arrogant of you to think that you're defending the sanctity of the Rams when in actuality you're defending your own beliefs and then hiding behind a shroud of altruism.

You think you're right and I think I'm right, but I don't try and kid myself into thinking that my opinion is the only one out there.

I apoligize if what you perceive is arrogance. That's not what I'm trying to portray. But just like you, I feel very strongly about what I feel and will debate as such. I don't pretend that my opinion is the only one out there, but when I feel strongly about something and have supporting information to strengthen that position, I will debate and support it as if it's the right opinion. I'm sorry if that bothers you.

Originally Posted by moklerman

I don't act all exhausted from debating with you like you're some crazy person that out of the generosity of my heart , I've decided to donate my invaluable time.

If I act exhausted from debating with you, it's because I really am. It takes me a significant amount of time during the day to respond to some of these lengthy debates, sometimes an hour depending on how many points there are to respond to, and after a number of days of doing so, I'm simply tired of the entire ordeal and have other things that I need to devote that time to.

It's not because I think you're crazy and I'm doing you a favor by giving you my opinion on the matter -- if that's what you think of me, then it sounds as if you've really misread me, which could be my fault as much as anything.

It's simply because I'm recognizing that we have two different points of view, and since neither of us are budging from our respective positions, the idea of spending hours continuing to debate the issue isn't appealing or I suppose doesn't seem worth it anymore.

When I enter a debate, it's because I want to both express my opinions as well as hear the opinions of others. If it becomes obvious after a few days that all we're going to do is butt heads and make no progress, then I'd prefer to bow out and move on to other things.

Hopefully that clears some things up. I'd hate to think there's someone on this board that views me as this close-minded arrogant person, so I'll take what you've said into consideration for all of my future posts.