I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.

I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.

But to be more helpful, Rulebook Page 10 tells you what you need to know:

"Any monster may be spawned out of any spawning point, regardless of how the spawning point is named or themed."

So, yes, whelps can spawn from the warrens. And ironscales can spawn from an egg clutch, and so on. The official Errata/FAQ that was later released clarifies that this happens even if all spawning points for one set of creatures are destroyed:

"Q: When a spawning point is destroyed do you reduce the amount of monsters in your pool to match what’s on your cards or do the monsters you start with stay eligible the whole game? A: The pool of monsters you start the game with stay eligible to spawn the entire game from any remaining spawning point, regardless of type."

From what I can tell Minions tend to be more intelligent types of monsters that work well together to take down heroes. Their spawning points (so far) come in pairs.Denizens are more wild types of monsters that are fearsome on their own. Their spawning points (so far) come as singles.

I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.

I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.

Jon_meadowbrook wrote:

What is the list of monsters on the spawn point card for?

It tells you what monsters are available. If you're playing a five-Hero game, using just the base game, the Consul will have access to all the minions, denizens, and bosses in the box.

But if you're playing with three Heroes, you take one of the Kobold cards and the Drake card, and you use the minions and denizens listed. (So, for example, you'd only have one Dragon Priest -- not two.)

If you're playing with two Heroes, you only take one Kobold card, and you only have minions in the listed quantities.

And if you go beyond the base game, of course, you could mix and match your Consul factions...

Page 7 of the original edition."Some spawning points only come in pairs of two, so if you select one, you have to select a second. When this is the case, the stat card will list the monsters you may field for both spawning points combined."

Page 7 of the original edition."Some spawning points only come in pairs of two, so if you select one, you have to select a second. When this is the case, the stat card will list the monsters you may field for both spawning points combined."

Terrific find! This is also consistent in the second printing.

Page 10 has the info explaining how monsters can spawn from any spawn point regardless of the theme or type of spawn point.

My heroes had a MUCH harder time last night then they should have. This probably explains why a 8bit game took 3 hours...

Can you quote the rulebook pages for all that? I can't find anything about being forced to pick Denizens based on your boss.If you're playing an 8-bit game then that renders the expansion packs moot. I can't think of a reason why I shouldn't be able to use two Egg Clutches or Lava Whirls.Or once Glaurdoom Moor is released I might like to run five different Denizen spawns.

I removed my previous post, it wasn't worded well. I stated that the choice of boss dictates which denizen spawn point you choose, and the remainder of the spawn points are chosen from ones that give minions, but this isn't stated in the rules.

But I think it may be intended that your choice of boss does dictate which Denizen spawn point you take that matches that boss.

There isn't anything in the rules about being forced to pick a spawn point with Denizens based on the boss monster. Which is sort of a shame, it sort of makes sense. Although in the base game, when you play 16 bit or Super games and choose a boss, since you only get the choice of 2 spawn point types, the game only comes with 1 Egg Clutch, and you have to take Kobold Warrens in pairs (it says so on the card, it comes with 2), you are forced to take a set combination of spawn points that includes the Egg Clutch and the Drake Denizens that match Starfire. (1 egg clutch, and 2 or 4 Kobold Warrens).

It only mentions that Denizens are closely aligned with the boss monster, it doesn't say you have to take them.

Page 7 has all the rules for choosing a boss monster, then minibosses, then spawn points.

So technically, since the game only comes with 1 Egg Clutch and set of Drake Denizens, if you had three copies of the game it seems you could theoretically choose 3 Egg Clutches in a 3 hero game for example.

However, Starfire's timeout effect includes a summon of 2 Wyrmlings, 2 Whelps and 2 Hatchlings, and these models are only available if you choose the Egg Clutch (it gives you exactly these models). It wouldn't make sense to get these models if you hadn't chosen the spawn point for them and don't have these models in your pool. If you don't choose the Egg Clutch, would the timeout not give you any monsters? Maybe this is the way the game 'encourages' you to take an aligned spawn point to give you the correct denizens?

So I wonder if there will be errata to cover this?

Otherwise, the Denizens and Minions are different types, so it's possible in future that certain abilities will only affect denizens or minions, or denizens of a certain type.

I'm waiting on the full release of Roxor still but I'd assume you could do something like take four Kobold Warrens, a Lava Whirl, and Starfire. That way when you hit the Time Out you could drop the Egg Clutch mobs on the board. They'd never get respawned mind you.

I'm waiting on the full release of Roxor still but I'd assume you could do something like take four Kobold Warrens, a Lava Whirl, and Starfire. That way when you hit the Time Out you could drop the Egg Clutch mobs on the board. They'd never get respawned mind you.

And this is where the rules are vague... A common problem with this game it seems!

The rules for spawning points and spawning monsters from spawn points say that each spawn point adds a limited number of models to the models available to you, and if you run out of the models that the spawn points grant you, you can't spawn any more of those monsters.

The rules for spawning monsters on a boss for a timeout don't say if they adhere to these rules or not. But it does say on page 29 if these models are already on the board, they are moved to the new location, which does seem to imply these monsters are not 'additional' to the ones the spawn points give you, they are from the consul's pool of models granted by the spawn points.

If you were allowed to spawn the Starfire timeout monsters without choosing the Egg Clutch, then this would technically allow a consul player to potentially field more monsters than their spawn points allow. Which seems a little bit unfair to the players. This scenario would mean a player choosing Starfire as the boss would be better off not chosing the Egg Clutch, as the boss timeout would always result in a spawn rather than just moving monsters already on the board.

So I'd imagine if you didn't choose an Egg Clutch, the monsters aren't in your pool and can't be spawned by the boss timeout.

Once the boss monster enters play, if there are any spawn points left the consul can't spawn monsters from them any more anyway (p28).

According to the SPM forum, if you don't choose the Egg Clutch, you do still get the Drake Denizens in the timeout, even though these models weren't provided by the spawn points:

SPM_Deke wrote:

xris wrote:

At the start of the game the Consul selects Starfire as the boss but decides to not use the Drake Denizens (he decides to use Fireflow Denizens instead).

During the Timeout, do 6 Drake Denizens suddenly appear from nowhere? Does the Consul suddenly obtain an additional 8 Skull points worth of monsters? Or are the Fireflow Denizens removed from play to be replaced by the Drake Denizens?

6 Drakes suddenly appear! Starfire loves his little'uns. No other models are removed. The timeout summoning is effectively a free spawning of monsters. It doesn't really matter if they were used during the game or not since during the boss fight spawning points no longer generate monsters.

The 'timeout' monsters are intended as a 'free' spawn for the Consul (and as a way to give the Heroes a breather and a chance to smash a few weaker monsters to pick up a few more hearts and potions and a bit more loot), and aren't tied to the monsters granted by the spawn points in any way. The rule for moving monsters applies if the Consul can't spawn a monster because they don't have enough miniatures that aren't on the board in their collection, ie the minis they have are already on the game board.

So eg, if the Consul fielded 1 Egg Clutch, but has a 2nd Egg Clutch and Drake Denizens set availaible in their collection, the timeout will spawn ALL the monsters, even if some/all Drake Denizens from the spawn point are still on the dungeon map.

SPM_Deke wrote:

First and probably most important is spawning points are not tied to bosses in any way. Therefore you are free to take whatever spawning points you want with each boss. The timeout monsters are entirely separate from the spawning points available.

The rule for moving existing monsters was implemented so that you could have the timeout effect even if you did not have extra monsters available. A situation which we knew most people would be in until we could build a larger catalog of units. A Consul who has the extra models can have a more powerful timeout effect since they can get all new monsters, whereas another Consul may only get a free spawn of a few.

1) Neither way is wrong.2) Timeout monsters were always meant to be an entirely new and free spawning of gribblies for the Heroes to fight. The "pull monsters from other areas of the dungeon" is the fix for allowing the core of the effect to happen given real world limitations on people's collections.3) If you're interested in discussions of "intent" They are there to mirror video game boss fights to provide Heroes a source of weaker models to beat up and potentially get much needed hearts, potions, or loot. Typically by that stage of the game Heroes are well equipped and the summoned monsters are little true threat. They are in many ways a timeout more for the Heroes than for the Boss. Which was intentional. Because of this we have no problem with using extra models if you have the correct ones in your collection -- we do.4) On our end clarification or a total refinement of that scenario in future rules is definitely on the list (along with many others for future editions).