On one level that's true, but as a "biological input" it can have a distinct impact on body, which can have an impact on mind.

We know for example, that certain times and level of food intake are conducive to meditation whereas others aren't, so I'm certainly not discounting the possibility of scents being detected by the brain, and triggering some biological response, which may have either a positive or negative impact in terms of one's spiritual endeavours. In Annabel's excellent post, she gave examples of what biological responses might be evoked by certain smells.

From yet another perspective, I experience Seasonal Affective Disorder which is generally attributed to lack of light within certain frequencies. Again, regarding light, "its just sensory data" from a vipassana/satipatthana perspective but I know it has certain physiological impacts, the consequences of which can be actually be hindrances to mental cultivation.

Metta,Retro.

It will be interesting what the peer-reviewed academic literature, particularly in the realm of cognitive and consciousness research, says on the subject. But as far as assisting one on the Path, I am not yet convinced.metta

Ben

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.

Just like loud obnoxious noises make it difficult to become absorbed in meditation I think powerful stench would do the same. Just like the sound of trees blowing in the wind, a bubbling stream or the ocean make it easier to become absorbed in meditation I think soft and pleasant smells like pine trees, moss, or ocean mist help in a similar manner. This all applies to absorption or "samata" not necessarily insight where the smell of rotting flesh might have a positive effect at the right time.

Metta

Gabe

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

I'm not so sure Gabe.I acknowledge that the phrase Noise is a thorn to Jhana appears in the commentaries (and perhaps even in the suttas), I have not yet seen any reference to odours and smells on meditative practice within the ancient literature. If it did have a deliterious or positive effect, then I am sure, like noise, it would have been mentioned.kind regards

Ben

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.

Ben wrote:I'm not so sure Gabe.I acknowledge that the phrase Noise is a thorn to Jhana appears in the commentaries (and perhaps even in the suttas), I have not yet seen any reference to odours and smells on meditative practice within the ancient literature. If it did have a deliterious or positive effect, then I am sure, like noise, it would have been mentioned.kind regards

Ben

Well its been my experience anyway. At least at the level of being able to settle down and engage with practice. I recall many wonderful periods of meditation next to a stream allowing the soothing smells and sounds to usher me into absorption. Of course anecdotal evidence is not scientific and I am usually engaged in a very full meditation schedule during the times I recall.

Metta

Gabe

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

On one level that's true, but as a "biological input" it can have a distinct impact on body, which can have an impact on mind.

We know for example, that certain times and level of food intake are conducive to meditation whereas others aren't, so I'm certainly not discounting the possibility of scents being detected by the brain, and triggering some biological response, which may have either a positive or negative impact in terms of one's spiritual endeavours. In Annabel's excellent post, she gave examples of what biological responses might be evoked by certain smells.

From yet another perspective, I experience Seasonal Affective Disorder which is generally attributed to lack of light within certain frequencies. Again, regarding light, "its just sensory data" from a vipassana/satipatthana perspective but I know it has certain physiological impacts, the consequences of which can be actually be hindrances to mental cultivation.

Metta,Retro.

Thank you, Retro, I'm glad my post made sense to you.

Your analogy to sunlight is excellent, since it is also a non tactible phenomenon, yet with distinct effect on all life.

In a way, everything is "frequency" and "vibration". Sound, light, and even the atoms in our bodies and everything around us have a their very own specific " vibe".

"Nada Brahma, the world is sound." (is a book by a German university professor that I have...)

Those frequencies can be in sync with ours, or out of sync with ours, and cause us to feel uncomfortable.

You mention the affective disorder you are susceptible to, due to a lack of light.

It is a not uncommon state where I live, we are in deepest winter right now, had lots of snow, and quite a few people are suffering from a lack of certain hormones in the brain which are triggered by strong sunlight.

I too feel unmotivated and tired these days. I want to sleep a lot, but can't. (Work)

Since you asked for an oil to use...

orange oil is used for winter depression, both in an aroma lamp, and as a fruit to eat.

I never eat oranges or drink orange juice in the summer, but in the winter I literally crave it.

Food instinct? We know from experience, that goats and cows who can roam freely in the Alpine mountains seek out certain herbs to cure themselves when they are ill.

It is a well known known empirical fact amongst mountain farmers, only scientists from the city don't believe this, since they have never seen it, and need double blind studies to recapture what is our very own natural possession and knowledge if we stay in touch with nature.

As Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Shakespeare both said:"There is more between heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your 'school wisdom'".

Best wishes and hope you enjoy orange oil. I like blood orange best.

Annabel

Last edited by Annapurna on Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

hi Annabelwhen I trained in body therapy, there was a product specially for people with weight problems with peppermint oil in.it tricked the area it was applied to into thinking it was cold and a shiver reaction happened which aided in burning fat (so to speak), it was a fabrication of the senses, not an actual cooling.

hi Gabe,I know someone who finds the sound of flowing water, a babbling brook or waterfall very stressful since they nearly drowned, it would seam that sounds are only relaxing or conductive if you provide that worth to the sound.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

Manapa wrote:hi Annabelwhen I trained in body therapy, there was a product specially for people with weight problems with peppermint oil in.it tricked the area it was applied to into thinking it was cold and a shiver reaction happened which aided in burning fat (so to speak), it was a fabrication of the senses, not an actual cooling.

hi Gabe,I know someone who finds the sound of flowing water, a babbling brook or waterfall very stressful since they nearly drowned, it would seam that sounds are only relaxing or conductive if you provide that worth to the sound.

Hi Manapa,

Dont you think this is true of just about anything? Still there are overriding trends which I think we can be aware of.

Metta

Gabe

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

Manapa wrote:hi Annabelwhen I trained in body therapy, there was a product specially for people with weight problems with peppermint oil in.it tricked the area it was applied to into thinking it was cold and a shiver reaction happened which aided in burning fat (so to speak), it was a fabrication of the senses, not an actual cooling.

hi Gabe,I know someone who finds the sound of flowing water, a babbling brook or waterfall very stressful since they nearly drowned, it would seam that sounds are only relaxing or conductive if you provide that worth to the sound.

Hi Manapa,

Dont you think this is true of just about anything? Still there are overriding trends which I think we can be aware of.

Metta

Gabe

Definitely, but these trends aren't always appropriately dealt with by using sounds, smells, or something else.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

Manapa wrote:hi Annabelwhen I trained in body therapy, there was a product specially for people with weight problems with peppermint oil in.it tricked the area it was applied to into thinking it was cold and a shiver reaction happened which aided in burning fat (so to speak), it was a fabrication of the senses, not an actual cooling.

Which type of body therapy?

(Did you also learn about Ayurveda?

It's very interesting, because it helps people to handle hot or cold weather better through eating certain food.

They're called cooling and warming foods, therefore. It has nothing to do with the temperature the food has, but with which effect it has upon our body.

An easily understood example would be a hot chili which makes you sweat and feel uncomfortable on hot days.

Rice however, cooked with zucchini, accompanied by a green lettuce, would be a cooling meal, and would help people suffering from hot moist weather.

It's highly fascinating, and I tried it. It really works.)

Sorry for the OT, just wanted to know about body therapy...

Last edited by Annapurna on Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Manapa wrote:hi Annabelwhen I trained in body therapy, there was a product specially for people with weight problems with peppermint oil in.it tricked the area it was applied to into thinking it was cold and a shiver reaction happened which aided in burning fat (so to speak), it was a fabrication of the senses, not an actual cooling.

hi Gabe,I know someone who finds the sound of flowing water, a babbling brook or waterfall very stressful since they nearly drowned, it would seam that sounds are only relaxing or conductive if you provide that worth to the sound.

Hi Manapa,

Dont you think this is true of just about anything? Still there are overriding trends which I think we can be aware of.

Metta

Gabe

Definitely, but these trends aren't always appropriately dealt with by using sounds, smells, or something else.

Please explain

Thanks

Gabe

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

Manapa wrote:Definitely, but these trends aren't always appropriately dealt with by using sounds, smells, or something else.

Please explain

Thanks

Gabe

here is a story I was told a couple of years ago, how true it is I don't know.

a number of years ago there was a meditation teacher who ha a pet cat, this cat every day would come into the meditation hall and pester the monks for attention, or sit on their laps distracting them in different ways, so the master ordered that the cat be put in a cage during the meditation times to stop it pestering the monks.a few years later the master died and they carried on putting the cat into the cage during the meditation times up until it died.they then got another cat who wasn't really interested in pestering the monks for attention while they sat, but none the less they put the cat into a cage, after a few years a visiting monk came and asked why they caged the cat, the temple monks replied because it helps us to meditate.

I have heard several versions one set in Japan others Thailand or Burma and tibet, and sometimes it was a dog

essentially the trend of someone isn't always going to be the same, but habits set in, rituals and supports, based on the successful application or pleasantness, these sensory extras have a danger of being over used, as being a crutch for people, sure in certain circumstances they can be useful, and can effect us by causing certain reactions which make it easier to calm the fabrications and set aside covetousness and melancholy towards the world, but is it affecting us in a way which is only conductive, or are they leading another way? this is why these are essentially a 'coffee' they bring on fabrications which are useful but not all the time.

does that clear up what I mean?

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."