When CCW bump in a public place

While at a local department store my son and I were were looking at some DVD's when a younger man in fairly hip style clothes bent over to get a lower level DVD I noticed he was "carrying". Looked like a common poly framed something or other style pistol. I got concerned and I told my son that we needed to get some other things and left. This got me thinking.......I actually got concerned for my son....this guy could have had a CCW permit.....or maybe he didnt......I stared to think about the situation and it bothered me and again made me think what if some one had seen me carrying and thought that I was or could be a bad guy about to maybe rob the place....I can look pretty redneck if I dont shave for a few days on the weekend. so I know apperances mean a lot.

So how many of you CCW's have bumped in to someone else carrying and what did you think or do about the situation.....not knowing if the other person was licesned?????

thanks for your input
Rusher

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Matthew Courtney

March 9, 2003, 09:50 PM

Adopt a mindset where you assume any given person is armed unless you know for sure that they are not. Your alertness level will increase and you should begin to focus on relevent behaviors that might communicate threats, rather than carry status, which communicates nothing.

"Doing something" about armed citizens is a ridiculous notion advocated by insecure liberals. Unless and until you witness behavior that plainly indicates intent to victimize innocents, you would be wise to act as though others wish only a peaceable journey, as should you.

Mindset and awareness should remain in gear. Mouth and hands should remain in neutral.

cratz2

March 9, 2003, 10:30 PM

I don't know, I kinda come and go. I went through a period where I evaluated many people that I saw. Any time I see a man not hiking or biking that has a fanny pack, I think 'Gun' and I think the same thing when I see someone wearking a tucked tshirt and an open shirt over it.

Whether or not the person has a license woulnd't affect my judgement of that person. An honest, safe person that carries without a CCW is absolutely no more likely to 'go postal' than a CCW holder that is really down on his luck and having a particularly bad day.

Standing Wolf

March 9, 2003, 10:35 PM

As far as I'm concerned, the more people who pack iron, the better. Whenever I see someone with a slight waist bulge, my assumption is it's another one of us. It could be a criminal, of course, but since I don't hang out where criminals generally hang out, it's unlikely.

Zundfolge

March 9, 2003, 10:46 PM

Jeez, you shoulda seen me today.

I was wearing a pear of somewhat baggy cargo pants, a plaid flanel shirt, a pair of Vans tennis shoes and a black stocking cap and I needed a shave ... and my Kahr MK40 was neatly tucked away in my pants at 4 o'clock.

Many would say I looked like a hood.

:neener:

I would rather live in a world where everyone packed ... criminal and law abiding alike, then the world we have now where most criminals but few law abiding do.

Lone_Gunman

March 9, 2003, 10:48 PM

As long as the gun isnt pointed at me, we don't have a problem.

Matthew Courtney

March 9, 2003, 10:58 PM

I was wearing a pear of somewhat baggy cargo pants, a plaid flanel shirt, a pair of Vans tennis shoes and a black stocking cap and I needed a shave ... and my Kahr MK40 was neatly tucked away in my pants at 4 o'clock.

Zundfolge brings up a very relevant point. Looking like you belong in the "hood" should greatly reduce your chances of being targeted while traversing our more interesting neighborhoods. Some might argue that prudent folks avoid such areas, but I would counter that with prudent does not always equal rich, and there are some services only available in older areas. Try to find a good shoe repair guy anyplace but downtown, or a great tailor. Not getting all dressed up is often the best way to go.

Redlg155

March 9, 2003, 11:06 PM

So long as it is in a holster I can believe the person is legal no matter what he/she looks like. There are Vice cops out there as well as regular CCW permit owners that don't fit the "clean cut" look.

I will have a totally different attitude if I see someone that obviously has a weapon just stuck down their pants.

Good Shooting
RED

Matthew Courtney

March 9, 2003, 11:16 PM

So long as it is in a holster I can believe the person is legal no matter what he/she looks like. There are Vice cops out there as well as regular CCW permit owners that don't fit the "clean cut" look.

Everytime I am watching "COPS" or some other TV cronicle of actual police behavior, I am shocked and dismayed that LEO's routinely take pistols from subjects and just shove 'em in their belt. What's with that?

Tim Currie

March 10, 2003, 06:50 AM

Jeez, you shoulda seen me today.

I was wearing a pear of somewhat baggy cargo pants, a plaid flanel shirt, a pair of Vans tennis shoes and a black stocking cap and I needed a shave ... and my Kahr MK40 was neatly tucked away in my pants at 4 o'clock.

Many would say I looked like a hood.

Exactly why you cant always judge someone by their look.

Heh..... I was thinking about this tonight. After I left work I stopped at Safeway for a snack. Wearing my work clothes, slacks business shirt and tie, and walking down an aisle and a passing customer nods, smiles, and says hello. Yet any other time I might be in my "street clothes" and the same person would not likely acknowledge me like he did. There have been other examples as well. Point is, I'm the same person with my jeans and Molon Labe sweatshirt on as I am in my business atire. Its just funny the way people judge by your look.

So for all you know that younger man (I'm 22) in "fairly hip style clothing" and packing in the department store could be me. Then again, you might see me the next day in suit and tie....and 9mm in the pants. Same person, different picture.

TallPine

March 10, 2003, 11:41 AM

I don't care who is packing as long as they behave themselves.

And it's none of my damn business whether or not they have a "permit"

Part of being a free person involves extending freedom to others.

How come so many people don't get that?

(don't take it personally, tho - it takes time :) )

bogie

March 10, 2003, 11:48 AM

Campers, you gotta be careful when you're packing... Even with licenses, etc., in states that allow CCW.

Why?

There's all sortsa hoplophobes out there. There was one fellow a few years ago, when Misery had CCW on the ballot, who informed me that if he was in a restaurant, and he discovered that someone was carrying concealed, he'd grab a steak knife and stab 'em before they could shoot someone. He just couldn't make the connnection to "peaceful CCW." In his mind, a concealed firearm meant that someone was planning to shoot someone. And I'm sure he ain't alone in the world.

chadintex

March 10, 2003, 12:00 PM

As far as I am concerned, everyone, everywhere is armed. As long as they behave themselves, I'm OK.

TallPine

March 10, 2003, 12:07 PM

if he was in a restaurant, and he discovered that someone was carrying concealed, he'd grab a steak knife and stab 'em before they could shoot someone

That's why we need to have "steak knife control laws"

:neener:

tetchaje1

March 10, 2003, 12:07 PM

There was one fellow a few years ago, when Misery had CCW on the ballot, who informed me that if he was in a restaurant, and he discovered that someone was carrying concealed, he'd grab a steak knife and stab 'em before they could shoot someone.

That person should be locked up in a looney bin. :rolleyes:

You should have told him that you were a gun owner, and that you were voting in favor of CC in Missouri. At least if he would have lunged at you with a pen or something you could've smacked him around a bit, then charged him with assault...

Another thing is to ask, "If you had a gun in your hands right now would you shoot everybody around you?" If they say, "No," then you say "How dare you insinuate that the rest of us normal law-abiding gun owners would do the same." If they say, "Yes," then you say, "Then you should be locked up for psychotic tendencies because the rest of us would never even consider it."

Steve Smith

March 10, 2003, 12:25 PM

Rusher, afraid of folks with guns are we?

bogie

March 10, 2003, 12:52 PM

Nope - the fellow just could not make the connection between a firearm and a good guy... In his world view, the people with firearms are either bad guys or wearing uniforms. Nothing else.

And there's a LOT of folks out there like that.

So let's be careful out there.

Blackhawk

March 10, 2003, 12:52 PM

I'd think, "Good. An ally if some gang bangers show up in here."

Blackhawk

March 10, 2003, 12:54 PM

I'm curious.

Any LEOs have opinions on whether or not criminals tend to wear holsters or carry rigs?

I'd think not since they can't ditch them as fast as they can dump just a gun if they need to.

dav

March 10, 2003, 01:24 PM

from Zundolge:
Many would say I looked like a hood.
from Tim Currie:
Exactly why you cant always judge someone by their look.

You mean I'm not allowed to think Zundfolge is a hood?

Darn!:D

David Row

tetchaje1

March 10, 2003, 01:40 PM

I saw a guy in the bank a few months ago who's cover garment wasn't long enough and the bottom of his holster was poking out. The only thing that I thought was, "If only the rest of the sheeple in line knew what that well-worn leather poking out under his jacket was..." :)

Personally, I think that he was a bit short-sighted in chosing cover that wasn't long enough, but then again, at least he was packing.

I like the comments made above. As long as his/her gun isn't pointed at me, I have no problem with him/her. :)

pale horse

March 10, 2003, 02:11 PM

I was at the bank and a gentleman was infront of me he leaned over to sign his paper and exposed his gun holster well with his holster still poking out from under his vest. I tapped on his shoulder and whispered that his piece was showing and walked off. He quickly adjusted. I think it was a 1911.

In my experience not too many bad guys are wearing holsters nor are they willing to adjust.

A cop I know is an undercover and he looks like a bad guy. So when ever I see someone who looks scraggley and grungie I generally dont think too much of it. Unless I look into their eyes and see that they are a predator then I assume the worst. Its strange how you can tell protectors from predators. I am reminded of a passage I read "The eye of the Lord move to and fro looking for a righteous one." Just keep your eyes open and use your judgement.

MitchSchaft

March 10, 2003, 04:20 PM

I think you should chill out and get a different perspective, Rusher. Maybe you're not used to seeing people carry or something. Actually, I've never seen anybody else carry out in public. But, I don't assume they have bad intentions if I assume someone is carrying. I'm young and don't dress in your casual khaki and golf shirt type of attire either.

Harold Mayo

March 10, 2003, 04:40 PM

Jeez, you shoulda seen me today.

I was wearing a pear of somewhat baggy cargo pants, a plaid flanel shirt, a pair of Vans tennis shoes and a black stocking cap and I needed a shave ... and my Kahr MK40 was neatly tucked away in my pants at 4 o'clock.

Many would say I looked like a hood.

Perhaps they would say that because you DID, Zundfolge, you young punk!

:D

Aikibiker

March 10, 2003, 04:59 PM

Your reaction could have been just being protective of your child. That is relatively normal if a little irrational. As long as you don't start campaigning for Hillary Clinton in 2004 I think we can forgive you.

On styles of dress. In public school I was constant bullied and teased, since I wasn't allowed to fight back (the local school district liked to make examples of trouble makers, those examples generally involved court) one of the strategies I adopted was to dress like a street thug. I am a nice guy, I have shaken the hand of a governor and I volunteer as a citizen observer with my local police department, however I still maintain my defensive camoflage. It must work, I never seem to get into trouble. ^_^

Peetmoss

March 10, 2003, 05:02 PM

As long as the guy wasn't drawing I wouldn't have been concerned at all. Hell the other day I accdently flashed my two backup magazines while putting change in my pocket at the local gas station.

Steve Smith

March 10, 2003, 05:08 PM

I have seen Zundfolge in person. He coudn't pass for a hood on his worst day...epecially in this town! :D

bogie

March 10, 2003, 05:14 PM

Well, I've noticed that one has significantly more "personal space" when riding mass transit if one maintains a constant muttering to oneself...

Zundfolge

March 11, 2003, 12:17 AM

Hey Steve, I said I hadn't shaved ... I look much more hood like when I need a shave :p

STW

March 11, 2003, 12:40 AM

This chatter reminds me of a friend of mine working under cover narcotics. He never looked good and generally looked different any two weeks in a row. Nicest guy you'd ever meet.

He was working one night when the car in which he and others were riding was stopped by the local PD. He was carrying (1911 in small of back) and created just a bit of excitement when he was patted down. He said he got roughed up just a bit between stop and jail but, naturally, couldn't say he was one of the good guys. :scrutiny:

Bravo11

March 11, 2003, 11:59 AM

When I see someone printing or showing some leather I also assume its another ccw. I may be on the minority side of this issue but I think its good to flash a piece of carry like the bottom of a holster or a spare mag carrier--it lets any potential bad guy
know that this is not place to hit. Its like the old addage: "Peace thru superior firepower"

Quartus

March 11, 2003, 12:37 PM

You mean I'm not allowed to think Zundfolge is a hood?

Well, no, that's not exactly right, David. You aren't allowed to think he's a hood because of his appearance, but it's okay to think he's a hood because he is one!

:D

Other than being alert (because BGs DO exist), why would someone else carrying be cause for a change in my behaviour? I support the Second Amendment, so I can't regard any firearms laws as being valid. So, I see someone doing something perfectly legal, I should get upset? :confused:

Nope.

dav

March 11, 2003, 02:25 PM

from Quartus:
it's okay to think he's a hood because he is one!
Thanks for clearing that up for me, Quartus! :D

spacemanspiff

March 11, 2003, 02:32 PM

maybe it has something to do with the location? we're already conditioned up here to open carry. moreso in the bush areas than in the city, but its still no big deal. go into any mom & pop cafe on the seward highway and you'll likely see someone seated with a sidearm on their hip.
i've only seen two people that i figured to be carrying. one was a guy with a fanny pack but still reached into his back pocket for his wallet and the other was a guy wearing a camo jacket that had a bit of a bulge about 4 oclock.

Aahzz

March 11, 2003, 05:20 PM

I have a tendency to go for the "scruffy" look myself, for camo purposes - well, camo and the fact that I prefer my hair long. Long hair, goatee/mustache, usually wearing a Kiss T-shirt with an open shirt over. However, my NRA Life Member Hat or Ceritified Instructor jacket ought to tip off any fellow good guys :) .

I also assume everyone else is armed, so the sight of a holster generall doesn't bother me unlesss the person is acting in some way that would raise further susspicions.

JohnBT

March 11, 2003, 06:05 PM

"...traversing our more interesting neighborhoods..."

Wave when you pass through :neener:

Or stop by if you have time. But knock before you come in ;)

John

seeker_two

March 11, 2003, 06:37 PM

If it ain't pointed at me, I have no problem w/ it...:cool:

Average Guy

March 11, 2003, 10:16 PM

I will have a totally different attitude if I see someone that obviously has a weapon just stuck down their pants.
Don't remember who wrote it, but I once read that "The good guys usually wear holsters."

As for me, I'm big and clean cut and melanin deficient, so I get pegged as a cop no matter what I wear. I'm not, and I ain't even carrying, but whatever works...

sm

March 11, 2003, 10:44 PM

I just figured I'd keep my SA attuned to the fact everyone carried.

Went to chew the fat with my Dr. and personal friend. While there looking at his new toy, some other friends showed up, all of us carrying CCW. And one new gun on his desk. We varied from DR. accountant, nurse, motorcyle hippie look (husband and wife)Me, I'm just a regular guy in jeans. Kinda funny because we then got into holsters and carry methods.

Heck his nurse figures most of his patients carry...they provide a safe place in Exam room for guns, in case you have to put on the robe and go down the hall for tests, Xrays. .. And the personal nurse carries...I took her some ammo for plinkin'.

Quartus

March 11, 2003, 11:42 PM

melanin deficient

:D Well, surprise, surprise! I didn't know PC could be funny!

Zundfolge

March 12, 2003, 01:15 AM

This thread has me thinking.

If the first rule of gun safety is "every gun is loaded" then why not make the first rule of safety in public is "every person is armed".

jrhines

March 12, 2003, 12:18 PM

To put a different spin on the question - What about the situation where you see someone carrying in a state that has no CCW? A few years back, I was sitting in a doctor’s office and noticed a young fellow, maybe mid-20's, with some poly pistol in an IWB rig. I am assuming it was not just tucked into his belt, but I didn't see the holster. He was in jeans, tucked T & overshirt, and flashed when he fished his wallet out of his hip pocket while seated. There ain't any CCW in Maryland, so I noticed bigtime! I figured UC LEO & went about my business.
I recall that I was PO'ed 'cause he was (and I assumed could), and I wasn't (and could not legally).

Quartus

March 12, 2003, 12:57 PM

jr, in response to your question, I'll give you what I said earlier:

Other than being alert (because BGs DO exist), why would someone else carrying be cause for a change in my behaviour? I support the Second Amendment, so I can't regard any firearms laws as being valid. So, I see someone doing something perfectly legal, I should get upset?
Nope.

I can't very well call myself a supporter of the Constitution, and then get upset that someone else exercises a Constitutionally protected right, even if they do it in violation of an UNConstitutional law.

Kharn

March 12, 2003, 01:55 PM

Jrhines: I'm with the "if its not pointed at anyone, there's no problem" crowd on CCW. As long as it stays in its holster, my cellphone wont dialing the po-po.

Kharn

spacemanspiff

March 12, 2003, 01:59 PM

i know of one person that carries without a CCW. all i could do was encourage him to get the permit. but his buddies all carry without, so i'm not too sure if i was persuasive enough. even though he is technically breaking the law, he isnt one of the 'bad guys'.

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