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She is the one Araragi would want to have beside when dying on the battlefield.

So Shinobu is more of a "worthy opponent-turned greatest ally"?
Well, from what I have watched in Nise (just watched 06), their interactions are more suited for a battle fantasy series like Shana or similar things like that (i.e. they sound a bit chuuni when seen in the perspective of a normal person).

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I disagree about Tsubasa, first of all her relationship with Koyomi has developed a lot throughout the series (more than any other characters' even counting in Kissshot and Hitagi). In series one (for which I can have a more definitive opinion), Koyomi worships Tsubasa, but is afraid to make a move and lose his only friend (until Mayoi). On the other hand, Tsubasa appreciates Koyomi, but does not think of him romantically until the end of Kizu, and realizes her feelings with the start of series two (Black Hanekawa, the cat-spirit, figured it out a lot earlier, of course).

I disagree about Tsubasa, first of all her relationship with Koyomi has developed a lot throughout the series (more than any other characters' even counting in Kissshot and Hitagi). In series one (for which I can have a more definitive opinion), Koyomi worships Tsubasa, but is afraid to make a move and lose his only friend (until Mayoi). On the other hand, Tsubasa appreciates Koyomi, but does not think of him romantically until the end of Kizu, and realizes her feelings with the start of series two (Black Hanekawa, the cat-spirit, figured it out a lot earlier, of course).

series one -> Bake/Kizu/Nise/Neko-Kuro
series two -> Neko-Shiro until Koi (which I have not read, but been mildy spoiled about their content)

Ah. Then I will say that Araragi was willing to make a move in Kuro, but it didn't end well because Hanekawa never asked for his help. He didn't know what Hanekawa's feelings were back then, but he was going to make a move. Right after Kuro, Bake started and Senjougahara came around. At this point it was too late for Hanekawa, who got also handicapped by the fact that she had lost her memories at the end of Kuro.

@Shikijin:The problem was Koyomi being too intimidated by her, unlike with Hitagi. With Tsubasa Koyomi always feels inferior, while with Hitagi he pretends to be.

The dialogue with Tsukihi in Neko Kuro proves that Araragi was willing to face his own feelings.

I think that more than being intimidated (which he was), Araragi is socially inept, so he had problems taking the initiative. He had the same issues with Senjougahara, but in that case it was Senjougahara who took the initiative for him.

The dialogue with Tsukihi in Neko Kuro proves that Araragi was willing to face his own feelings.

But eventually failed... it was not the first time too, plus Tsubasa is not making things easier, and with the rest of the Bake- harem forming things got even more complicated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikijin

I think that more than being intimidated (which he was), Araragi is socially inept, so he had problems taking the initiative. He had the same issues with Senjougahara, but in that case it was Senjougahara who took the initiative for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Hanekawa lost because she wasn't aggressive, like Hitagi was. Hanekawa started the race first but Hitagi was faster.
Simple as that...plus Koyomi is a self-proclaimed M from what I've heard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikijin

There are limits even to that. He commented Senjougahara was scary a lot in Bake and in Nise. He seems to like being trampled, but no more than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randrak42

He can't be a very mild M either if he can still love Hitagi whole-heartedly even after her verbal abuses...or should I call them beatdowns? xD

But they both know that at any point Koyomi stops enjoying how obsessed Hitagi is with him, he can stop her (as he did in Nise-)... What I don't like about their relationship is that neither of them was interested in eachother like (Koyomi and Tsubasa), but it was convenient to be together, and requires less effort... of course, they have progressed a lot as a couple as the story proceeded.

I see that Malkuth is pretty pro-Tsubasa, and I can't fault that. Just had to add my two-cents on what was Hanekawa's biggest regret in her life - not taking the lead with Araragai Koyomi.

It seems that Hanekawa was waiting for Araragi to 'sweep her off her feet' like a fantasy prince in her own fairy tail. He was the one with the vampirism and could do all the really cool things - so of course, him asking her out shouldn't be too hard, right? She even had the distinction of helping him during his crisis and has his eternal gratitude. So why didn't anything happen? She forgot that her wanna-be 'Prince Charming' was the same age she was and was very NOT ready to take the lead in a relationship. If only she had called him out on the 'eternal gratitude' thing for a date, but Hanekawa is too nice for that. She didn't want to 'trap' Araragai like that - 'ideal Japanese maiden' that she tried to project herself as.

I see that Malkuth is pretty pro-Tsubasa, and I can't fault that. Just had to add my two-cents on what was Hanekawa's biggest regret in her life - not taking the lead with Araragai Koyomi.

If you don't have read the novels you may not know certain things, but basically Hanekawa made Araragi be appointed vice class representative exactly to stay close to him. Also, Hanekawa was stealthily administering Araragi a "strengthening program". It's not like she wasn't doing anything.

I see that Malkuth is pretty pro-Tsubasa, and I can't fault that. Just had to add my two-cents on what was Hanekawa's biggest regret in her life - not taking the lead with Araragai Koyomi.

It seems that Hanekawa was waiting for Araragi to 'sweep her off her feet' like a fantasy prince in her own fairy tail. He was the one with the vampirism and could do all the really cool things - so of course, him asking her out shouldn't be too hard, right? She even had the distinction of helping him during his crisis and has his eternal gratitude. So why didn't anything happen? She forgot that her wanna-be 'Prince Charming' was the same age she was and was very NOT ready to take the lead in a relationship. If only she had called him out on the 'eternal gratitude' thing for a date, but Hanekawa is too nice for that. She didn't want to 'trap' Araragai like that - 'ideal Japanese maiden' that she tried to project herself as.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikijin

If you don't have read the novels you may not know certain things, but basically Hanekawa made Araragi be appointed vice class representative exactly to stay close to him. Also, Hanekawa was stealthily administering Araragi a "strengthening program". It's not like she wasn't doing anything.

I indeed like Tsubasa (not shipping her to Koyomi, but since he is the protagonist, well ends up working that way)... As for her not trying, she did try... a lot before Hitagi entered their life, it's just that she behaves more as an adult than either Koyomi or Hitagi do... they are more like teenagers understanding themselves through their relationships, while Tsubasa (because of her background) has figured a lot of things, tries to change, but is trapped partly in denial and partly in expectations.

Anyway, on another topic, there was a very spoilerish doujinshi in C83 about Nadeko Medusa another character that tries a lot, but is obsessing over the wrong person