I think they will just leave the podium the same and declare no winner for those years. it makes no sense to promote the others up. Jan has already said he is proud of his second places and he knows who crossed the line first. He is the boss tho, love that guy.

I read that Outside article last night, meh....it did not persuade me in any way. Besides the Androstenedione he reportedly found, there is nothing there....or am I missing something? He says that LA was going to finance a bike shop for him, but has absolutely no contract or even the reportedly email it was spelled out in.... He says he was cold to his wife when he left her.... He brought a bunch of cash home from Europe that he did not disclose..... That he said "I hate this chit" while doing a benefit? What am I missing?

If it is, "He didn't fulfill the promise to finance the bike shop." We don't even know he said he would do that and it is one mans word against another's. So if it is the, coming after him like a pit viper, when he says that he sues.....that seems reasonable. Non-disclosure contracts are a dime a dozen with this type of stuff, personal assistants, nannies ect.....asking him to sign one doesn't seem unreasonable.....

I guess maybe I missed something, but this could just as easily be a disgruntled fired employee making stuff up on the fly. In the end, we just don't know.

Lance may have been a cheater and he may be a big douche, but he sure did reel me into cycling during his run....and I still like what I know about the guy. Maybe that is why the Outside Article seemed like nothing to me?

That Outside article wasn't really about doping more Lances character. The points you make are pretty valid in isolation but there is A LOT of people LA has vindictively stomped over the years. (Betsy Adeu, Greg Lemond, Bassons, Simone + Others I forget). I read a funny quote the other day from a guy who met someone from Austin, Texas. He was a big cycling fan and asked what people of Texas thought of LA, he replied, 50% love him 50% hate him. ORL, why to 50% hate him? Answer: they have met him. Haha.

It was reported on French Tv last night that USADA retested some samples and got positives. Twitter twits saying 04/05 TDF Samples for CERA (EPO mark 2). If that is true then that is a big problem because CERA was only in clinical trials at that time, you can get in big trouble for having that type of stuff before it is released open market, more than just "doping" trouble. The French sure have no love for LA so who knows. Can't wait for the USADA case to be presented to UCI, happening next week apparently.

The full case file that USADA officials handed over to the UCI on Wednesday totals more than 1,000 pages and, according to Tygart, includes “sworn testimony from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the U.S. Postal Service Team and its participants’ doping activities. The evidence also includes direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding.”

Armstrong’s representatives did not immediately return a request for comment.

USADA for the first time made public the 11 U.S. Postal riders that provided testimony in the investigation. Those riders are: Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie, Floyd Landis, Levi Leipheimer, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie. Tygart confirmed that each of the active riders had been suspended and called on the UCI to pursue a truth and reconciliation program for riders willing to come forward with information regarding their previous doping activities.

Yes they were all cheating but It was not an even playing field. LA was protected and could charge with immunity, others had to be careful. Also EPO helps some riders a lot more than others, It improves those with naturally low hemocrit a lot and those with higher hemocrit only a little. Also tends to help the classics style rider climb in the mountains which is not possible naturally, so it really tips the GC race in favour of the rouler and against the climber. Long and short of it the whole era is ****ed and its impossible to tell who would have been the champ if they were all were clean. Certainly wouldn't have been Lance IMO. Plus he is a nasty douche so he fails at life as well.

Have already noticed a subtle shift in position among the lance fanboys -- it used to be "it's a bunch of lies," and now it's "he had to to level the playing field." Even the defenders have a real hard time seeing USADA's evidence and concluding that it's all BS.

The question really now is how long will he continue to deny what nearly everyone else in the world knows? Watching the dismantling of the long and well-crafted public image is fascinating (to me at least) in a sad and tragic way. The image was built on a false foundation and it was only a matter of time. The time, is now.

Will Lance go the way of Pete Rose, denying for 25+ years and maybe someday fessing up when it's too late, he's no longer redeemable and no one cares? Or, will Lance finally fess up, be honest with himself and the rest of us and with the possibility of forgiveness and redemption? People and the public are almost always willing to forgive someone who is honest, admits their wrong-doing and tries hard right their wrongs/mistakes. Lance's steadfastness will be the real cause of his undoing.

Think about it: Lance could completely change his tact and eventually save public face and potentially regain a favorable public persona. He would have to be completely honest and admit that until now he has not been. He could explain the pressures he faced and why he ended down this path (ie. Tyler Hamilton). People could at least understand that. He could be a champion of starting a new era in cycling and sport, admonishing the old era. It would take a while, no question. But, it could be done. The current path however... well, again, think of Pete Rose.

Andy I agree with you 100% the thing I hated about Floyd Landis was the whole dog and pony show after he got caught. The 2 Million dollar law suit he filed and all the donations people gave to support his case. If he would have just come clean people would have forgave and moved on. Iím surprised at how many pros don't take a lesson from those that have been caught got their hand slapped and then moved on. The pro cycling field has to be filled with over 1/2 of people that at one time or another have had to serve some type of penalty or sit out because of drug use. The thing about this is the persisting drugies that are getting hauled out of the closet. In baseball "To the public" it looks like they had a few dirty years and then they got cleaned up. But with cycling it seems that every year there is more and more

Andy I agree with you 100% the thing I hated about Floyd Landis was the whole dog and pony show after he got caught. The 2 Million dollar law suit he filed and all the donations people gave to support his case. If he would have just come clean people would have forgave and moved on. Iím surprised at how many pros don't take a lesson from those that have been caught got their hand slapped and then moved on. The pro cycling field has to be filled with over 1/2 of people that at one time or another have had to serve some type of penalty or sit out because of drug use. The thing about this is the persisting drugies that are getting hauled out of the closet. In baseball "To the public" it looks like they had a few dirty years and then they got cleaned up. But with cycling it seems that every year there is more and more

It seems the difference between Floyd and Lance is that Lance was really really really smart about it (he never did test + after all), and that Floyd, an amish farmboy, is a bit of a dumbass. Lance was on a whole 'nother level from Floyd in his approach. Which I can appreciate in a Dr. Evil / Godfather kind of way. He's like the king of the cheaters. The best.

Also agree that we should let USADA test baseball, football and basketball. Put those guys on the same protocols that Lance was subjected to. I'd bet we'd have at least 50% suspended in the first week.

My post wasn't really about how to get cycling clean. Realistically, that's not too likely. There will always be aggressive competitors looking for any way possible to get an advantage, including breaking the doping rules.

The point was, how Lance might handle himself in a way that leaves him with some dignity and results in something similar to what he was pursuing in the first place.

Lance is going on Oprah next week. Lol. Sad. Hope it's better than the poor me bs that Marion Jones put on when she was on in 09. Best tweet so far from Race radio: When lance cries about being forced to dope Oprah will understand. She was forced to eat 2 dozen Krispy Kreme for breakfast

Armstrong was in the doping era of cycling, can't say I'm not disappointed, but not really shocked. But what really knocked him off the pedestal for me after reading the testimonies, court docs etc, is holy crap that guy is a dick!

Armstrong was in the doping era of cycling, can't say I'm not disappointed, but not really shocked. But what really knocked him off the pedestal for me after reading the testimonies, court docs etc, is holy crap that guy is a dick!

Yeah sorta makes me wonder how much the existence and persistence of the "doping era" owed to Lance. He certainly took it to a whole new level.

ON FREAKIN OPRAH!!!! You know, that show where all major atheletes come and make announcements. ! What a chicken****, loser. Wonder if he will now make cool black rubber wrist bands that say "Live Fraud" on them.

ON FREAKIN OPRAH!!!! You know, that show where all major atheletes come and make announcements. ! What a chicken****, loser. Wonder if he will now make cool black rubber wrist bands that say "Live Fraud" on them.

I wonder if Lance will apologize to those he slammed, defamed, sued, etc. that made claims regarding his doping. Looking back at some of the things he said and did to people, for that reason, the guys is a total douche, imo.

That was part of the Twisted Web lance has to UN tangle. One Sponcer with held a 5 million dollar bouns because of drug use. Lance sued them and won 12 million for with holding the $5mill. Now these people want their money back!!!

IMO Nike, Trek, Giro, Oakley all want to put the ARMSTRONG Money making Train back on track, If lance was to come clean and start up in Triathalon, He could promote all 3 sports Running Swimming Cycling, This could be a huge pay day for all invested in Team Lance.

I look at it this way. How many people have the American Public forgave? It seems like every celeb has done some pretty stupid stuff. Drugs. Booze, Hookers, Spouse Abuse, Running from the cop's, Gun's You name it they have done it and we have all FORGIVEN them, How long ago was Robert Downey Jr in and out of Rehab and Jail. And look at him now! I can see if lance comes clean he can Still un do the damage and make things right. Only time will tell He still has alot of support and all the right reasons to re-invent himself. I hope the Interview and follow up interviews can Start to put this to bed and start over.

^How so? Do triathletes get to dope? The "ARMSTRONG money making Train" is permanently derailed.

Lance is currently banned from the big triathlons. Many of hosting bodies follow the same guidelines. He can do smaller races where the hosting body in not a member of the USAT (United States Triathlon) or the World Triathlon Corporation (WTC) they do the Ironman branded races, but pretty much all of the sanctioning bodies follow the same banned substance list and eligibility rules.

The "ARMSTRONG money making Train" is permanently derailed. Jeremy you could be right. but only time will tell. IMO depending on how he comes off he might be able to re gain the public's trust. I think about the many Pro riders that doped And denied the charges only later to admit they did it and then served a suspension and then came back to be respected again.

G have you read the USADA report? Lots and lots of riders doped. Lance REQUIRED his team to dope and busted riders who didn't. Lance isn't just a product of the doping era, he's a lot of the reason for the doping era...

Im pretty sure cycling and drugs have been hand in hand long before Lance even rode a bike. So the "Doping era" IMO stretches way further back then LA. Lance is going to have to Answer for everything he has ever done. Then the American public will decide if they forgive or not.

Lance has "donated" hardly any money though he has gotten tons of schumcks to donate their own money which he then uses to get jetted around the world "raising awareness" about cancer. They (Livestrong) don't donate a dime to research...

Have you read the USADA report? Can you please cite to me one single other cyclist (or athlete) who so consistently bragged about how clean he was and then later had basically every teammate he'd ever ridden or played with give their own individual testimony of how he cheated and how he used intimidation to force them to cheat too? Seriously, this guy is like a crime boss, not some poor guy who got caught in a speed trap that everyone else was flying through too.

Shawn; I'm pretty sure Slipstream (Garmin Chipotle) built and entire team boasting Drug free riders. They had riders just as dirty as LA. The Entire T-Mobile team was disbanded because of drug use. Cycling has had drug use for years. They IMO have been more vocal about it then most sports and that's why we hear about it so much. I'm not trying to say its ok in any way to do drug to cheat but if people can find a edge to win they are gonna take it. It happens in every sport.

Cycling is some what unique. Riders are asked to do almost super human feat's with Little to no rest.
Now a days the cycling season runs almost all year long. The riders get almost no recovery with all the tours that they have to do.

Take a Top US pro. Throw him in the TDF. 30 days racing around France at 100+ miles per day would CRUSH most any pro. The guys on the Uci world tour do that and then 2 or 3 weeks later start the Tour of Spain

G I have no illusions that lance being revealed for what he is will magically change the human desire to win at all costs. The best we can hope for, I think, is that it puts those people back on the periphery where they belong, and that organized systemic cheating on the order that Lance accomplished won't happen again.

Heh, I'm pretty sure you've pinned a number on in the NCNCA, right G? Even among masters racers who do it as a hobby there have been doping cheats. There probably always will be.

Andy: I guess my point was, When the bar is raised so high (constant high level compition) people "almost" need the drugs to recover. The old school rumor was that the Drug company's urged the tour directors to make the races so hard that riders would be forced to buy drug's (Asprin at the time) to compete. I know that's a silly rumor. The tour has been going on since the 1900's and I would guess riders were doing some sort of drugs way back then to compete.

BTW Cyclest back in the day used to think that Smoking opend up your lungs. Here is a pic of them passing a cig. Who knows what else they used to pass around

Two. Like every other sport in the world. More than likely others cheated... doping in cycling has been around long before Lance.

Three. Its cycling. Who cares?

What about the money he won a few years ago in a lawsuit against a publisher he claimed fabricated a story about him doping? I think he was awarded 800 thousand dollars or so. He also threatened publishers with lawsuits that had stories that mentioned him and doping.

I don't even care about Lance's doping. I just want to know if and what he'll do to make amends to all the people he insulted, defamed, sued, etc. The guy was and is still a total douche bag. He owes a lot of huge apologies to those people that were telling the truth that he called liars - and money to any he sued.

Watched both shows. He has some serious issues and bridges to try and re-build. I hope for everyone's sake he will try and make things right with the people he sued and slandered in trying to protect his lie. I think we should judge lance on how he makes a wrong a right with the people he hammered. If the people he named. Floyd, LeMond, Franky and His wife, Tyler, and all the others can forgive then that's a true Start. It was hard to believe him when they went back and showed tape of him defending the lie. His body language and tone looked exactly the same in this interview.

Bottom line I still love and respect the sport weather ur a lance fan or not makes no difference it's all about just getting out riding .

Lances place in the sport is not really the point, his place in humanity is the real issue for me. I can not reconcile somebody who does good globally but ****s on people closest to him. IMO, how you treat the few people close to you is much more important that how you treat the unknown masses but that is just me and i guess unfashionable in the hero culture of fame.

He was still lying about key parts of the story: uci complicity, 09 clean come back, trying to bribe usada, using political connections to shut down the feds. Not coming clean about the hospital room: unforgivable.

Ummm so he gave money to help some people... So if Ken Lay gave a crapload of money to help people he should be forgiven for the crap he pulled too? It's ok to defraud millions as long as you give a chunk of it to worthy causes?

The guy was obviously doping in a sport that you cannot succeed in without doping, and the professionals at catching dopers couldn't catch him. They probably aren't catching others as well. I really don't care what he did good or bad in such an overwhelmingly corrupt sport. I don't like him because he is a jerk in public. I saw him be a douche to some people in public once and that's all I needed to see. He trains in my folks neighborhood on occasion, and if my brother didn't point him out I wouldn't have even noticed or cared. The guy is an asshat regardless of bike racing success\failure.