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Wednesday, January 30, 2013

A Line In The Sand?

The case of Nathan Haddad should boil the blood of any good American. A twelve-year veteran of the Army, with four deployments, is a decorated combat veteran and now, probably, a felon. His crime: possession of five empty 30-round magazines for an AR-15. The magazines were stowed in the trunk of his car at the time of a traffic stop.

This is why, even though one is a law-abiding citizen, never talk to police officers and never give them permission to search your vehicle without a warrant describing in detail the area to be searched and the things to be seized. As Haddad found out, assuming that he did give permission to search his vehicle, thinking himself to be innocent of any crimes, now faces up to 35 years in prison, 7 years for each magazine.

In legalese, they will probably give him something like 30 days if he pleads guilty to a felony, after which he will not be able to legally own a weapon, or even have access to a weapon for the rest of his life. This is called manufacturing a felony and the only reason to do so is to disarm as many people as possible by trumping up charges and pumping up sentences to frighten them into pleading to something that should be thrown out of court the minute the charges are brought. In the old days, when disarmament was not the goal, these things were always plead down, not up, for first time offenders.

I had a few minutes to speak with Michael Haddad, Nathan's brother, who has started a legal defense fund. I have promised to contribute as much as I can afford and to encourage others to contribute. Michael, like his brother, is a good person just trying to help out. He stressed, however, to wait until after February 20th before doing anything other than contributing to the legal defense of this disabled veteran. The reason is to see if the legal system will take a no-nonsense approach to this issue. If they do not, we need to be prepared to unleash the hounds. I know that William Jacobson of Legal Insurrection has offered his services to aid Nathan's attorney should the state prefer to go the wrong way in this case. Kudos to Mr. Jacobson.

Nathan, like most of us, just want to get the charges dropped or reduced at this time. But, Upstate New Yorkers need to be taking heed of this case. The object right now is to let the legal system correct itself and do the right thing. There is an "or else" side to it that must be reigned in for the time being.

While I believe this is a line in the sand that will test the resolve of the patriot/liberty movement in days to come, we need to keep our powder dry and send a few bucks to the legal defense fund set up by Michael Haddad.

There has been a lot discussed on this blog about good cops and bad, Oathkeepers and oathbreakers. Inevitably the issue of who is good and who is bad and how can the good cops help out without sacrificing their pensions and jobs. I am sympathetic to their point of view as I am not willing to throw my life down the drain for some unseen, unheard of sacrifice that inspires no one but the bad cops to get worse.

But here is a classic example. Had the cop not looked in the trunk. Had the cop done his job and written the ticket instead of pushing for more and more access to search the vehicle, this would not be an issue today. If the cop had found the magazines, recognized that they were not loaded and warned Nathan that it was illegal to own them, but that as a good cop, perhaps an Oathkeeper, he would look the other way in the interest of his Constitutional obligation, this would not be an issue and Nathan would not be fighting for his freedom.

Instead, we have a twelve-year decorated war veteran thrust before the legal system of New York, with no money to pay for the type of legal counsel provided to David Gregory, who violated the same law after being informed by the D.A. that it was illegal to have such a magazine in the District of Columbia and that the law was clear. David Gregory got nothing. The D.A. refused to bring charges.

Let's see if Nathan Haddad is afforded the same type of justice that a white, rich, liberal with a television news program can expect. If anything Gregory should have had the book thrown at him because he had inquired of the D.A.'s office and they told him it would be a violation of the law. That, friends is corruption, open and brazen.

I have been asked by Michael Haddad to add this paragraph to the end of this post. But, please do not stop donating as there is still a little way to go to fill up the fund and excess money might be used to help out other vets who run afoul of gun laws.

Thank you every one for your support of my brother. With everything going so wrong in America. You all have restored my faith in her and in the kindness of complete strangers from those who donate to those who shed light on this travesty with their websites to the lawyers who have wished to represent my brother for free. Words cannot tell how I feel. I count you all as friends and brothers and sisters. It's true we live is a great nation.Michael HADDAD

NOBODY will do anything. Go back to your lives. The game is OVER.In normal times this case would produce a blowback of biblical proportions but today you all hope that he gets 30 days suspended.The game is over.

Absolutely this is the perfect example of the bad cop. The kind I despised then and now.These are the MFers who give all cops a bad name and the kind who will one day find themselves on the wrong side of "the law" if this keeps going the wrong way. I hope there are sane jurors or a sane DA in the picture. The majority of cops are good men who just want to do a hard and thankless job and make it home to their families at the end of the dayand are unfairly saddled with the stigma these bad LEOs bring to the force as a whole.

If the "majority" were such good guys, how come there are so many shitheads in the profession? Why is it that the "good cops" in the "majority" never seem to weed out the "few bad apples"? If this Jefferson County Sheriff's office is full of "good guys who just want to do the right thing, then the arresting officer(s) would have been seeking other employment by the end of the day, as well as going home with a few lumps if not broken bones.

I know there are good guy cops out there. I have known a few. I do NOT believe they are in the majority or even close to it.

For the record, I am not anti-cop. I want a peaceful community and justice based on the rights of Life Liberty and Property. I am very much pro Peace Officer. I am, however, anti-bullying and anti-thuggery. Everything I have seen in my lifetime of cops and their culture shows me plainly that MOST, but not all, are opportunists and thugs who truly believe that what ever they have done, it was the right thing to do BECAUSE it was them what dunnit. I would point to the murders of Eric Scott and Jose Guerena as recent examples.

The Good Guy cops and the oath keepers are NOT the majority. Get used to that idea now. It will be less painful to confront the reality later.

Hey LB I surely know where you're coming from and agree with your sentiments.

Here is a post of mine to a local forum regarding last evening's events:

I was really surprised...pleasantly surprised

It's no secret I prefer as police officers, Peace Officers rather than Law Enforcement Officers.

On my way home in the snow last night I came over a rise and the car started to drift, I let up on the accelerator, turned the wheel in the direction of the drift, and there was no effect. In seconds I did a 180 and was in the ditch. Fortunately there was no harm to person or the vehicle. Just stuck in the mud.

While awaiting a triple A wrecker to pull me out I had my fingers crossed in the hope no cops would appear, and surely issue a citation.

Several vehicles stopped to ask if I was OK, did I need help, a ride?

Then the inevitable, a car slowed, blue lights started to flash. State Trooper. Asked if I was OK, did I have help coming, did a walk-around the car with mag-light checking for damage. Never asked to see ID or other documentation. We chatted a bit about what happened, he said it's slippery-be careful, I thanked him, wished him well and he left the scene.

Still awaiting the wrecker, several more good samaritans stopped, including two plows.

Then a SUV slowed and blue and red lights started flashing. CCSO Deputy K-9 unit this time. Oh crap, I figured I'd used my evening's quota of good fortune. Not so. Pretty much the same deal as with the Trooper. As the officer departed, he said if the wrecker-man needed help with traffic control, give the CCSO a shout.

In both instances I ended up a bit embarrassed and ashamed about the anger I felt each time the flashing lights appeared...fully expecting being ticketed.

Both officers' behavior was professional and most surprisingly...compassionate. Would have been easy for either to issue a citation for failure to control, as that surely was the case. Possibly the treatment accorded me also had to do with my avoiding of any 'attitude'.

There is advice out there to "refuse to talk to police under any circumstances" and the like. I understand it...to a degree. On the other hand one-size-fits-all solutions may not be appropriate or work in all situations. Obviously there was nothing to be gained by my acting that way last evening, and as with past encounters with police, any 'attitude' on my part has always been as a reaction to 'LE attitude' initiated by the particular officer. There was never a hint of 'attitude' by either party other than acting as gentlemen.

These guys-cops-are sort of in the middle, between an out-of-control government and the people, many of whom have about taken their limit of authoritarian abuse. We should keep in mind that they didn't enact the legislation that are sometimes extremely silly and stupid laws they are tasked to 'enforce'. And they, in turn should keep in mind that their true duty-and oath-is to the Constitution, including the Bill of Rights, certainly not to obey every command regardless of justness and common sense, or to enforce laws that are counter to American Liberty.

We, and the cops too, may soon have to make some difficult decisions, a choosing of sides. I like to think officers such as the two I encountered last night, will align themselves with the 'good guys'. I hate to think that good cops might get caught in the crossfire, simply because of their uniform...

Let our consciences we were created with be our guides through the likely troubling times ahead...

There is no such thing as a "good cop." Toss that crap in the tank and get smarter. For your own sake too. They enforce illegal laws routinely and violate our rights by doing so all the f----g time. Don't tell me these are oath-keepers at all when they're not. They're dangerous to you and me, my family, your family, all of us who are real patriots. Real patriots with any sense would never become an LEO in today's America and those that have, with idealist tendencies to do "good" have only become part of the problem and criminals. As far as I'm concerned, as well as more patriots who are realizing the truth on this stuff, these cops are enemies of the Constitution & their days are numbered.

I am only honoring the requests of Nathan and Michael Haddad. While I am willing to go to town over this, they are not and I don't want to do anything they don't want. They did acknowledge that there might be a time when that would be necessary.

It's bad enough when the gun grabbers use false terminology when discussing their desires to grab guns, there's no excuse for knowledgeable folks to adapt their terminology. It just adds credibility to the gun grabbers arguments.

Clips are strips of metal which organize cartridges to assist in loading of magazines. Depending on the caliber, stripper clips hold anywhere from 4 to 10 rounds on average (some vary). Magazines are the items which hold the rounds for actual firing in the rifle.

Mr. Haddad had in his possession 5 30 round magazines, not clips. It may seem picky to bring this up, but I hate to see the gun grabbers score even minor victories by having knowledgeable folks submitting to their terminology.

Understand fully TL. I really enjoy your work and insights -- including this article -- and normally wouldn't comment. But like you, I'm older and kinda set in stubborn ways so I oft times find myself speaking out when I should probably shut up!

Keep up the great work, my friend. Our time is growing short as the elites are continually lighting minor fuses around the country. Sooner or later one of those fuses will ignite something none of us want, but are resigned to happening.

Now that we have that settled maybe you nitpickers can leave TL alone and actually contribute something that furthers the conversation?Like maybe something important and non gramatical?Sometimes this community is like a bunch of cats with ADD

It's not that magazines in general are illegal, it's the capacity of the mags. New York law now states that it is illegal to possess a magazine capable of holding more than 7 rounds, but even before the new law NY's laws stated no one could own a magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds.

NYS Penal Law § 265.02(6) makes it a class D felony to possess "a large capacity ammunition feeding device," which is defined in Penal Law § 265.00(23) as "a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after [September 13, 1994], that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition." Possession of unmarked "large capacity" magazines made after the sunset of the federal ban thus subject New Yorkers to felony charges. Police and prosecutors may be able to determine actual manufacture dates of seized magazines from information not generally available to consumers, such as the dates of magazine design changes and parts assembly numbers. The New York ban thus leaves possessors of unmarked post-ban magazines at risk of felony charges since they may not know the magazines were manufactured post-sunset and not pre-ban. However, the prosecution must be able to prove that the subject in possession of the magazine had knowledge that it was in fact a post-ban magazine.

The Fed ban hit sunset in 2004, but the NY law had no such provision and remained in effect.

Except that the law is against the law. There is no provision in the Second Amendment for limitation. "Shall not be infringed" is pretty hefty language for any law to get past (though I know they have).

No state is allowed to pass restrictive gun laws that would "infringe" the Second Amendment. To agree with that is to agree that some states might be able to violate the Thirteenth Amendment and have some ability to own slaves.

The Tenth Amendment allows states to regulate issues that are not given to the federal government, but the Constitution is given to the federal government to enforce as are all subsequent amendments. This is also, in my mind, why moonshining should not be illegal, except that so many moonshiners would just as well it stay illegal for the cache of it. But, notice that is not the states that regulate moonshining, but counties and that gets back to the Sheriff issue as the chief law enforcement officer in the county able to enforce laws passed by the county.

I agree with you 100% -- the law is an illegal law according to the plain English of the Constitution. Now, if we can just get the State of New York, in this case, to understand plain everyday English, Mr. Haddad's problems are over.

Like sheeple awaiting shearing we have sat back for decades allowing a steady encroachment of our rights and limitations put on our liberties while assuring ourselves that just a little bit more won't hurt, it can't get worse...now there's very little left to give up, and I hope we don't have a society so indoctrinated in the concept of a benevolent, infallible government that we'll end up losing what little is left.

All I have on that is it is in Jefferson County and the guy was a Deputy Sheriff. I think I could get it from public records if I had to. Right now, I just want to get people to put money into the defense fund and I have talked about making it a Liberty Defense Fund after Nathan's bills are paid.

T.L. Liberty defense fund is a great idea! If they have to fight us in court everytime they may grow tired of this stupid game. And we may keep honest folks from doing time (Illegal)time. I would support it!ChinaIII

CAN'T LET THIS STAND,CONTINUOUS INCREMENTAL REMOVAL OF OUR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS MUST STOP, AND THIS IS A GREAT PLACE TO DRAW THAT LINE IN THE SAND.THIS MAN HAS SACRIFICED 12 YEARS OF HIS LIFE FOR THIS COUNTRY AND IS A HERO-THIS IS HOW HE IS TREATED?I DON'T FIND THAT ACCEPTABLE.

I don't see how fighting this within a corrupt system of laws that are gamed by our opposition will get us anywhere. No sir. This Cop needs a good "talking to" so others understand There will be consequences to enforcing unconstitutional laws. The other side will gladly kill you if they catch you with an AR. These are the criminals we are facing...You want to use the courts. Really? They are all corrupt and immoral. I hate to say this but we need a REAL show that we are serious and this IS a line in the sand. If honest men do nothing in the face of tyranny it will only serve to embolden them. Rock and a hard place...

I don't know who you are talking to, I don't want to go through the courts, I am only respecting Nathan's choice and decisions with his attorney. Don't ask me what I want to do, cause that would be an entirely different answer.

I get that TL. Wasn't addressing you. I have an idea where you stand on the matter. Just general venting. Most of us understand that the ENTIRE system is broken now. We have one last recourse to reset liberty and the Constitution. I'm not happy about it. I'm scared for my family and my children but they will have no future if men of honor do nothing. I took the oath and served and i'm making my own plans. Bad times.

I feel we have to be ready with both defenses, the legal defense fund and the showing up at the DA's office to "have a chat".This is a clear line in the sand. It's beautiful in it's evilness. You take liberal, Statist NY law and take it to a conservative, patriotic area of the state where you know you are going to find a "target rich environment" and voila', you now have an example to be made of.SOmething stinks here, though. How did this cop pick out this car for a search? Out of a million cars, how did this Oathbreaker pick this single car. Something don't add up.We need to know this intrepid Sheriff's Deputy's name and do some research and find out if there may be a history here that he would know this one car would suddenly have 3 "illegal" magazines tucked in his trunk.

I'm sure all Sheriff Deputies go to the bar once in awhile. What if a group of patriots gathered in that bar and had a nice conversation with him. Talk to him about the 2A. Set his mind straight. I'm not advocating violence, just a nice group chat..

I agree with the substance of your article in its entirety. However, if we are going to be fighting for gun rights it's important that we know what we're talking about and use the correct terminology: they are called magazines, not clips. There is a difference.

As my son's, ( Nathan's) story gains momentum, and moves from blog to blog, or website to website there is opportunity for the facts to be skewed or misrepresented. Please be careful about what you post as we don't want his case to be compromised. Please understand that in order to maintain the integrity of his case, we cannot answer all your questions right now. PLEASE keep him and our family ...in prayer above all. Also please wait until his court date to do anything other than pray or donate to his defense fund. We don't want to go off half cocked (how do you like that for a play on words?) and jeopardize his case. If this does not go in his favor, this mama bear will come out with all she has and welcome anyone who wants to join her.

Pete used the word "horror;" no doubt. The tougher question for the rest of us, though, is this..."Is this acceptable?" After all, we're the employers. According to the story, "Police did not say what led them to Pantaleon's residence." Gee, that sounds kinda relevant.

For all the criticism I replaced "clips" with "magazine" to quell the readership and allow them to focus on this issue. When I was in the military we used a slang, after Vietnam, as clips, short for banana clips, which I believed came from their shape. I may be mistaken where the term came from, but not that we used it.

I also use the term "guns" for handguns and rifles, but in history the only use of "gun" was a cannon. For those sticklers out there I might just start referring to guns as pistols or rifles or muskets to keep from offending sensibilities.

Melinda Roney, NEC’s Logistics Branch chief and Haddad’s supervisor, said she fully understands what kind of asset the former Soldier is to the Army.“Nathan is the type of employee that supervisors wish they had a dozen of,” Roney said. “He consistently works hard, is good-humored and always goes above and beyond without thinking twice. “Giving 100 percent of himself comes naturally to Nate,” she added.

The "assault weapon" pulled from the trunk of his car was a tactical shotgun with optional pistol grip. That is where the confusion came from. A Bushmaster was recovered in the school with Lanza's body. The video showing them pulling a "tactical style gun" from the trunk was correct, but it was a shotgun. Still no legitimate to stigmatized modern sporting rifles...

Although reported as a Russian made Izhmash Canta-12 shotgun, it is sold in the US market as a Saiga -12 Semi-Automatic Shotgun with optional tactical pistol grip.

Link to State Police Report: http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284

I appreciate the fact that this is T.L. Davis’s blog, and his rules and wishes ought to be abided by visitors.

However, I sincerely feel that this dangerous situation has developed beyond Staff Sgt. Nathan Haddad. We’re all in this crap now, sooner or later – in fact it’s has been going on for decades, while we’ve been rolled over.

I’m all for donating to SSGT. Hadda’s defense fund (I donated $100), and assisting in every way I can.

There is precious little I agree with bad-ass Mosby, especially after his endorsement of a federal felon’s scam. That said, his comment on the Nathan Haddad's case is spot on (as was Rawles’ post the other day). I’ve been thinking about the same situation since 2008.

I won’t comply, nor do I go to prison.

I’ve never generated even a parking ticket. I’m as law-abiding citizen as they come. Should the government and, especially the LEOs want to alter that, they are the only ones (pun intended) triggering the unintended outcome of a future ‘contact.’

“Reduction of ammunition magazine capacity. The new law enacts reductions in the maximum capacity of gun magazines. We believe based on our years of law enforcement experience that this will not reduce gun violence. The new law will unfairly limit the ability of law‐abiding citizens to purchase firearms in New York. It bears repeating that it is our belief that the reduction of magazine capacity will not make New Yorkers or our communities safer.”

I think the law-abiding gun-owners of NY ought to have a discussion with the deputy(ies) about the Second Amendment in friendly manner and send flowers to his (their) lovely wife(s).

Larry Thorne

P.S. $9,630.00 by ONLY 241 people. If only 10,000 gun owners of the ~80 to 100,000,000 would donate a $10 ...

Agreed,there may come a day for that! But lets remember we are the good guys,do not intimidate their family's . If you want a one on one with said bad officer go for it,but leave the wives and kids out of it!

China,I fear in this sort of situation, there ARE no "good guys." I for one VOLUNTEER to be the "bad guy" in such encounters; then I can be villified by all of you, and you walk away scott-free. It hinges on, "Do they want war?" If so, I will channel General Sherman, and "march to the sea," and god help anyone or anything that crosses my path. The "line in the sand" was crossed almost 30 years ago - and that's on THIS ISSUE, not the founcational issues (currency, banks, corporate personhood, illegal/uncsontitutional laws, etc.) We could find instigating events as far back as 1791, maybe earlier.

The system has been "fixed." We're dealing with a magician, who will guess which card we drew from an unopened deck. Doesn't matter who pulls wich card - it's the Ace of Spades! Amazing! that's because there are 54 "ace of spades" cards in the deck we're allowed to draw from.

I'd also point out: Our families ARE in the crosshairs already. I don't have any any more. So I am freer than most, can pick up and leave to some extent. But you (plural, not specific) are limited by having a family you need to care for and protect, and when you are "terry frisked" coming home from work, and "they" detain you, call your family to come out of the house, and then ransack your home in search of (whatever), maybe they even find something that wasn't there?

In other words (repeating), YOU AND YOUR FAMILY ARE ALREADY AT RISK. So when TSHTF, all targets are viable. There ARE NO GOOD GUYS. Just bad and worse. At the very least, ensure that defective "herd mentality" and "bully" DNA does NOT get pushed into the next generation.

So you get the full picture, I'm white, born and raised Catholic from Irish-Italian stock, I've got a few speeding tickets but nothing more (and no parking tickets ;-) ), I'm just fed up with "good people doing nothing" - and thereby "allow evil to flourish." Sort of ...Book: I've been out of the Abbey two days. I've beaten a law man senseless, fallen in with criminals, I watched the captain shoot the man I swore to protect. I'm not even sure if I think it was wrong. (From Firefly / Season 1 Ep 1). I bolded the most relevant part, which should stand even without the context.

"We" have been on the retreat for 30+ years.Maybe it's time to stop running with our tails between our legs. Only a lunatic or a fool WANTS war - but they will keep pushing until they get it. Oklahoma City; Joe Stack; Ruby Ridge, Waco; The Revolution was fought over FAR FEWER abuses. And there was a LOT less surveillance then. This will be VERY ugly, no matter who "wins." And it'll be a pyhrric victory at best.

Delaying will make it WORSE at this point. Do we wait until "they" outlaw pointy sticks, as the "last step in ridding our streets of violence?" Swords, knives, umbrellas, saws, forks, flares, alcohol all illegal - but criminals would still have guns, so we citizens must make ONE MORE sacrifice for "liberty," to be "free from the oppression of criminal elements" or some such BS.

Maybe you are completely wrong. Maybe we should TARGET the "soft targets."

There are ways for a man to walk, and yet be dead. Maybe the evil men need a wakeup call. (and women, too, don't want to be sexist now, do we?)

We are ALREADY all on "the list(s)." Our families are "collaterol damage." We cannot engage ANY enemy from the "moral high ground" unless we willingly throw away our people. Drones aremd with missiles, or kamikaze drones (used in Afghanistan, coming soon to the Tri-State Area! Blows up a sedan by impacting with it! Keeps America SAFE!!! (tm) ) allow a cowardly force to assassinate "us", we "crazy gun nuts," and "bitter clingers."

We MUST STOP PLAYING THEIR GAME. WE must define the field of engagement. And when they retaliate - because they WILL, whether we stand in the (bought) courts, or face them down on Lexington Green again - THEY will be killing (as at Waco, Ruby Ridge) with impunity, AND moral sanction. They'll sleep QUITE WELL at night, knowing they did their DUTY to the US, fighting those dangerous domestic terrorists.They'll die for it, too, without a thought.

We will need to help them meet that end, ultimately. At that point, all bets are off anyway: why PRETEND to cling to "morals" the enemy refuses to even consider? Are you willing to accept a 10:1 kill ratio, they kill 10 of "us" for every 1 we kill? Not like we can afford to take prisoners - where do we house them, how do we feed them, who guards them?

And since they WILL kill our families to get to us, why should we bind ourselves with moral righteousness, and ultimately LOSE? Firebombing Dresden was bad, maybe even evil; it worked. Nuking Japan worked. (caveat: I have read it wasn't necessary, and that the real reason was to dissuade the Soviet Union from future conflict. Vile. Also history, and done. )

I see the concern, acknowledge it - and discard it as incorrect, impossible to perform, and detrimental ONLY to us. I would appreciate any good rebuttals, but if it's more than a Morality or Ethics rebuttal - Save your time. I concede morality. I refuse to lose, though, in the conflict they have been inciting, and are preparing for. We wait, we get arrested and "detained." We fight, we get killed. Lousy choice. Agreed.

Do you WANT to live in a soceity where a cop can pull you over on the side of road, do whatever they want up to and including kill you, and then just walk away? There won't even be an investigation? Anyone who asks questions gets similar treatment? And "terrorist attacks" will STILL occur, whether planned and executed by FBI (the last several "foiled attempts"?), or by patriots who actually ARE fed up (Joe Stack, IIRC)?

We have moved BEYOND Good and Evil - someplace we shouldn't have to be, but here we are. These people are teaching your children to inform on you; teaching them about homosexuality in kindergarten - but can't mention God (now yahweh, Jesus, Jehovah) - but Allah, and forcing students to dress and live as Muslims? That's A-OK! bear in mind: A "convert" in Islam doesn't need to even KNOW they said the magic words, doesn't need to intend to convert, and cannot recant if they've said the magic words and are later told the meaning - they are then an Apostate, subject to death.

Our culture (country, too) is being changed, by demographic shifts (Mexican, Latino, Hispanic illegals; Asian, including Indian, immgrants legal or no), by indoctrination (Public schools, subsidised by our tax dollars, teaching the WRONG information, with books subject to review by CAIR - you can't make this sh!t up), most municipalities and states and the feds can't make a budget - but they will eventually run out of our money, like.. Now. WHEN do we say enough? And this is only what we KNOW about.

Looney conspiracies, like "Obama's coming for your guns"... Wait, that's happening in CA, NY, CO, IL, DC, CT, and NJ. So, if that "conspiracy" is true, maybe some others aren't moonbattery, either. (Chemtrails, for example, or immunization problems, or flouridation of water having negative effects. That stuff that is so far "out there" it can't be TRUE...)

We live in a very pro-gun western state but own a place in Jefferson County where we spend our summers. When we retire and spend most of the year there, I fully intend to bring our shotgun for our self-defense, since we are in a rather remote area. I don't intend to comply with any NY State gun control law--and I am a native New Yorker (from NYC, no less).

Yes, you are quite right, but I plan only on staying there long enough to qualify the place as our legal residence so that we can sell it with no tax consequences afterward. Then it's back to the wild, wild west.

“There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."--Ayn Rand

No sir, I think that unlike you we are not so afraid to die that we would allow government stooges to fondle our children and grandmothers while we stand idly by with our suitcase in our hands and shrug our pathetic shoulders.

Sending flowers? That's why we should be flash-banged and shot? What a good little Nazi you are.

Those fools are criminals. These are not lawful abiding people we're talking about either. These are criminals who work under the cover of the "law" which is not the same rule of law that our Constitution is about. You take some time to think about it puke. Nazi lovers like you are what make this country so distasteful sometimes but then again, if it weren't for your types and the police here, it would be boring.

The only thing tyrants & their agents who enforce their tyranny (the police, agents of the govt, etc) will be bullets, things that blow up and other assorted tools of war to get their attention and our use of force to remove them, one at a time or many at a time. Either way, when the fight really does start I'll be ready to go & I'm not going to hold back anymore like I do now.