The Pope has been celebrating Mass in the ancient city of Ephesus in western Turkey, on the second day of his landmark visit to the country.

A shrine marks what is said to be the final resting place of the Virgin Mary.

Pope Benedict XVI is then due to meet the Greek Orthodox Patriarch in Istanbul, aiming to heal an old rift between Churches.

The Pope's four-day visit to Turkey has been overshadowed by comments made in September about Islam.

Wednesday's agenda will centre on the meeting with Patriarch Bartholomew I, which was the original reason for Benedict's decision to travel to the country.

Pilgrimage

The Ephesus service was the only open-air Mass Pope Benedict will say in Turkey, for a congregation of some 500 Catholics brought to the shrine by special invitation.

The Pope has visited the small stone house set in the lush green hillside where the Virgin Mary is thought to have spent her last days.

It is visited every year by tens of thousands of pilgrims.

He also honoured the memory of a Roman Catholic priest who was killed amid Muslim anger over the publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

"Let us sing joyfully, even when we're tested by difficulties and dangers, as we have learned from the fine witness given by the Roman priest John Andrea Santoro, whom I am pleased to recall in this celebration," he is quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

There is only a tiny Catholic community left in Turkey and many in the congregation were foreigners who live in the country and some had travelled from the Mediterranean coast for the occasion, says the BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Ephesus.

From there, the Pope will travel to Istanbul, once - as Constantinople - the centre of the Byzantine empire, but now the largest city in a secular but largely Muslim Turkish republic.

In Istanbul he will be the guest of the Orthodox Patriarch, who heads a community of 250 million Christians around the world.

While in Istanbul the Pope will meet faith leaders and visit the city's famous Blue Mosque.

Benedict is scheduled to lead Mass in an Istanbul cathedral before he departs.

Call for dialogue

On his first day in Turkey - and his first in a mainly Muslim country as Pope - Benedict called for an "authentic dialogue" between Christians and Muslims in a speech at Turkey's directorate of religious affairs.

He said the exchange must be "based on truth and inspired by a sincere wish to know one another better".

The visit has been overshadowed by angry protests by Turkish Muslims.

Tens of thousands of people protested on the streets of Istanbul at the weekend, calling on the Pope to stay away or apologise for comments he made about Islam in a speech in September.

Speaking to an academic audience in Germany, the Pope quoted a Byzantine emperor who characterised Islam as a violent religion.

While the Pope insisted the remarks did not reflect his own views, the speech was widely reported and caused anger across the Islamic world.

In Ankara, the Pope began his trip with a visit to the hilltop mausoleum of modern Turkey's founder Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.

Pope Benedict XVI, spiritual leader of the world's Catholics, is to meet Patriarch Bartholomew - "first among equals" of the leaders of the Orthodox Christian churches - in the Turkish city of Istanbul.

The Pope's visit to overwhelmingly Muslim Turkey has already provoked controversy - with some nationalist and Islamist groups insisting he is not welcome.

However, the Catholic-Orthodox relationship has also been fraught with difficulty, even before the two churches split nearly 1,000 years ago.

On the same day as he meets Patriarch Bartholomew, Benedict XVI will also visit one of the world's architectural marvels.

Built nearly 1,500 years ago by the East Roman (Byzantine) Emperor Justinian, it was known as the Haghia Sofia - or Church of Holy Wisdom.

A lost symbol

Converted into a mosque by the conquering Turks in 1453, it became a museum in the 1920s.

For many Orthodox Christians, it remains the lost symbol of their faith.

Some Muslim groups would like it to be a mosque once more.

If Benedict XVI offers a prayer here, the result could be religious dynamite.

The history of Istanbul - once known as Constantinople - exemplifies the clash of religions, politics and brute power.

Catholicism and Orthodoxy were once twin aspects of the same officially approved version of Christianity, established under the Roman Empire after its conversion in the 4th Century.

Catholicism was dominant in the "Latin" West; Orthodoxy in the Greek-speaking East.

Over the centuries, political, cultural and theological differences widened to the point where the two Churches formally split in 1054.

In 1204, Catholic Crusaders sacked Constantinople.

Reconciliation

Though roundly condemned by the Pope of the day, the sack is still seen by many Orthodox as an act of "Latin treachery" - and continues to mobilise anti-Catholic sentiment in traditionally Orthodox countries like Greece and Russia.

It took until 1964 for a Pope, Paul VI, to meet an Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople, Athenagoras, on neutral ground, in Jerusalem.

Recent Popes and Patriarchs have pledged to work for reconciliation and greater unity.

But significant obstacles remain.

One is the status of the Pope - seen by Catholics as the final arbiter of theological and moral truth.

For the Orthodox churches, such authority derives from the first Seven Councils of the Church - the last of which occurred in 787 AD - whose rulings cannot be altered or added to.

Unfair treatment

Other differences concern issues like the nature of Holy Trinity; the relationship between science and Faith; whether God can ever be fully understood; or the existence - or otherwise - of Purgatory.

There are also tensions between the various Orthodox churches - with some, like the Russian Orthodox Church, traditionally vying for the "number one" position; and some suggesting that the Patriarch of Constantinople may be too keen on his links with Rome.

One subject which may well come up during Benedict XVI's trip to Turkey is the allegation that Christians are not treated fairly.

In the 1920s, when the Turkish Republic was established on the ruins of the Ottoman Empire, there were 200,000 Orthodox ethnic Greeks in Istanbul.

Today there are 5000.

Istanbul's Orthodox Christian school of theology was closed by the authorities in 1971 - and remains so, despite appeals from the European Union.

- Kosovo is an overwhelmingly Muslim province of Serbia, pushing for independence- In Lviv and other western parts of Ukraine, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church predominates - a church that follows Eastern rites but vows allegiance to Rome- Republika Srpska is the Serb part of Bosnia- Cyprus is divided between the Greek, Orthodox south and the breakaway Turkish, Muslim north

For the Orthodox churches, such authority derives from the first Seven Councils of the Church - the last of which occurred in 787 AD - whose rulings cannot be altered or added to.

I see at least three major errors in this sentence. Perhaps someone should e-mail this reporter with a brief enough explanation of the actual nature of authority, dogma, Ecumenical Councils and canon law in the Orthodox tradition that she can use it in a graph or two in future articles. Any takers? (Cough...ozgeorge?)

Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

I see at least three major errors in this sentence. Perhaps someone should e-mail this reporter with a brief enough explanation of the actual nature of authority, dogma, Ecumenical Councils and canon law in the Orthodox tradition that she can use it in a graph or two in future articles. Any takers? (Cough...ozgeorge?)

You'd be wasting your breath. The article's from the BBC and after somewhere in the region of 20 complaints to them that they had errors in previous articles about Orthodoxy, I've given up trying. By all means have a go, though, just don't be surprised when they ignore you, fail to correct the errors and don't even acknowledge receipt of your comment.

James

Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

With a few hundred elementary school students distracting the personnel, we were able to chant "Save O Lord" in Greek in the Great Church... a completely moving experience. Of course, if we were heard we would have been kicked out and maybe even arrested, not to mention becoming the target of wrath from the same Turks who seem to love Il Papa so much.

Secretly chanting? That's straight out of some Russian-style underground worship services. Incredible that such things still go on today. Religion of peace really living up to their self-proclaimed title!

I'm watching the meeting between Benedict and Bartholomew now live on EWTN. Quite a beautiful scene---Pope and Patriarch at the head of two columns of Orthodox and Catholic prelates lined up down the nave, a chorus chanting beautifully nearby.

The big group of Catholic and Orthodox prelates, along with Benedict and Bartholomew, have all now entered a new room, all but arm-in-arm. The mutual affection is palpable.

Now the video feed is only showing the exterior of the residence, so it looks like the private meeting has begun. Raymond Arroyo and a Catholic monsignor are discussing the prospects and challenges of reunion.

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Well, now the live coverage is concluded. They say tomorrow Benedict is to attend a Divine Liturgy at the Church of St. George, and afterwards Benedict and Bartholomew will sign a joint declaration. It will be interesting to find out what that declaration will say.

Right now I'm at work as well sneaking a peak at Video Broadcast of EWTN. I'm Glad to see no one here is enthusiastic about the Dialogue and the Prayer Services. No one here is who is Orthodox on this board is really jumping with Glee about it. I had my reservations as well but the when the chips fall on the floor, the press will not recoginize the Patriarchs of The Eastern Churches and the political status's they have know. Which is fine because Schisms takes 500-700 years to heal and thats when Iran becomes a superpower is supported by Turkey to reestablish an Islamic Republic.

Archbishop Demitrios speaks for the Orthodox and his opening comments are fantastic. One thing I find ironic is that the intro start off saying who is at the press conference and telling everyone the official language for the press conference is English in a multitude of languages and then Archbishop Demitrios speaking on the power of language without talking about the power of the English language even though that is the choice of the press conference.

Istanbul is also Greek. It means "in the city." When the Turks invated the City the Greeks were shouting "The Turks are in the City, the Turks are in the City..." (ÃŽÂ¿ÃŽÂ¹ ÃŽÂ¤ÃŽÂ¿Ãâ€¦ÃÂÃŽÂºÃŽÂ¿ÃŽÂ¹ 'ÃŽÂ½ÃŽÂ±ÃŽÂ¹ ÃÆ’Ãâ€žÃŽÂ·ÃŽÂ½ ÃŽÂ ÃÅ’ÃŽÂ»ÃŽÂ·) and the Turks picked it up and called the city Instabul.

Istanbul is also Greek. It means "in the city." When the Turks invated the City the Greeks were shouting "The Turks are in the City, the Turks are in the City..." (ÃŽÂ¿ÃŽÂ¹ ÃŽÂ¤ÃŽÂ¿Ãâ€¦ÃÂÃŽÂºÃŽÂ¿ÃŽÂ¹ 'ÃŽÂ½ÃŽÂ±ÃŽÂ¹ ÃÆ’Ãâ€žÃŽÂ·ÃŽÂ½ ÃŽÂ ÃÅ’ÃŽÂ»ÃŽÂ·) and the Turks picked it up and called the city Instabul.

While this story has been going around for a while, many consider it folk etymology. For what it's worth, as the Turks had already held already the land surrounding Constantinople for quite some time, they would have had contact with its citizens and already had a name for it in Turkish. The day of invasion was not the first time they ever heard of the place.

I see at least three major errors in this sentence. Perhaps someone should e-mail this reporter with a brief enough explanation of the actual nature of authority, dogma, Ecumenical Councils and canon law in the Orthodox tradition that she can use it in a graph or two in future articles. Any takers? (Cough...ozgeorge?)

I suppose we should be grateful that we are even getting a mention in the BBC!

Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

While this story has been going around for a while, many consider it folk etymology. For what it's worth, as the Turks had already held already the land surrounding Constantinople for quite some time, they would have had contact with its citizens and already had a name for it in Turkish. The day of invasion was not the first time they ever heard of the place.

While all this may be true, the offical name of the city was the Greek "Constantinople" until the 18th century (or 19th, I don't recall), when it was changed to Constantin**** (whatever the Turkish equivelant of "Ople" is), and it was only changed to "Istambul" when Ataturk finished his atrocities, er, reforms.

While this story has been going around for a while, many consider it folk etymology. For what it's worth, as the Turks had already held already the land surrounding Constantinople for quite some time, they would have had contact with its citizens and already had a name for it in Turkish. The day of invasion was not the first time they ever heard of the place.

My intend was to justify the Archbishop by providing a positive lens by which to view his statement and avoid the spirit of criticism.

While all this may be true, the offical name of the city was the Greek "Constantinople" until the 18th century (or 19th, I don't recall), when it was changed to Constantin**** (whatever the Turkish equivelant of "Ople" is), and it was only changed to "Istambul" when Ataturk finished his atrocities, er, reforms.

Actually, "Istanbul" dates back to the Ottoman conquest of the City. And in the 19th century, the highest civil magistrate in Constantinople was called the "Istanbul Effendisi". And there is evidence that other Turkish place names have a phonetic origin similar to that claimed for Istanbul, such as the Turkish name "Ã„Â°stankÃƒÂ¶y" for the Island of Kos ("ÃŽÂµÃ¡Â¼Â°Ãâ€š Ãâ€žÃ¡Â½Â´ÃŽÂ½ ÃŽÅ¡ÃÅ’"), and "Izmit" was originally "Ã„Â°znikmit" ("ÃŽÂµÃ¡Â¼Â°Ãâ€š ÃŽÂÃŽÂ¹ÃŽÂºÃŽÂ¿ÃŽÂ¼ÃŽÂ®ÃŽÂ´ÃŽÂµÃŽÂ¹ÃŽÂ±").

Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

No, Catholic. But in college I was a member of the Orthodox Christian Fellowship, and my mentor in the history department was Prof. Florin Curta, who is Romanian Orthodox. I often went to Divine Liturgy and Bible study at St. Elizabeth's (the only Orthodox church in the area) on Sundays. I also attended mass at St. Augustine's on Sunday evenings.

I have a question for the canon lawyers and Greek theologians among us...Why wasn't the OCA mentioned in the remembrances for the autocephalous jurisdictions in the translation offered by Fr. Dr. Chryssavagis (sp?) on EWTN or on the http://www.patriarchate.org/ website? Does the EP not recognize our autocepahly or are we considered under the MP?

Ugh, please don't make this a complicated affair - I'd like it to be a clean and simple response. But knowing OC.net, that's probably not going to happen...

I have a question for the canon lawyers and Greek theologians among us...Why wasn't the OCA mentioned in the remembrances for the autocephalous jurisdictions in the translation offered by Fr. Dr. Chryssavagis (sp?) on EWTN or on the http://www.patriarchate.org/ website? Does the EP not recognize our autocepahly or are we considered under the MP?

Ugh, please don't make this a complicated affair - I'd like it to be a clean and simple response. But knowing OC.net, that's probably not going to happen...

Thanks.

From what I understand (someone else correct me if I'm wrong), Constantinople does not recognize the autocephaly of the OCA, though Moscow does.

From what I understand (someone else correct me if I'm wrong), Constantinople does not recognize the autocephaly of the OCA, though Moscow does.

You are correct to the best of my knowledge.

James

Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

At last, Communion. I've always been fascinated by the Orthodox way of distributing the Eucharist, passing the spoon holding both species into the mouth of the communicant.

The pope is standing as the Communion line passes by him. As they pass, many people are bowing to Benedict. I saw one woman make the Sign of the Cross to him. One adorable little boy left the Communion line and went up to Benedict to bow and shake his hand! You should have seen the look on Benedict's face.

I love the reverence of the communicants as they put their chins on the cloth and open their mouths like babes to receive their medicine on the spoon.

The liturgy was concluded with messages by Bartholomew and then Benedict, both eloquent, learned, and gracious (Benedict, by the way, personally extended the previously offered invitation to discuss with the East a re-envisioning of the Petrine office to reflect the reality of the first millennium). Following that was the exchanging of gifts (Benedict received the Gospels, Bartholomew a chalice).

Then both offered the Sign of the Cross to all around before leaving in procession.

They proceeded up to a balcony, where Benedict blessed the crowd in Latin and Bartholomew in Greek, upon which the crowd erupted into applause. Then there were cheers as Bartholomew and Benedict clasped hands and shook them above their heads before heading inside.

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I thought it was touching at the times during the Divine Liturgy when Bartholomew gestured or whispered to Benedict to guide him along.

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I'm sure Turkey is none too happy with this. The government received the Pope with the highest dignity and honor, yet they treat Bartholomew like a petty, pesky local bishop or worse. The Pope, in turn, is publicly treating Bartholomew as the ancient and venerable Patriarch of New Rome.

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It was a beautiful Divine Liturgy. Yes, we remain separated, but it is a wonderful thing to see the warmth, charity, mutual recognition of good faith, and brotherly affection shared by the leaders of our two Churches. It gives one hope and spurs one to pray ever fervently that God will bring us together in full Communion someday. It will take the grace and mercy of our Lord to do it, but with God all is possible.