Aside from states like WI, where OC is the only legal option (for now), I'm curious why individuals choose to open carry firearms over carrying them concealed.

While I was waiting for my CHP to arrive I would OC, simply because it was the only legal way for me to carry my firearm. Aside from feeling like everyone was looking at me(they weren't, but it felt like they were) I felt a little uncomfortable/exposed and wondered why someone would choose to carry their firearm in such a manner.

Many LE agencies forbid their officers from open carrying firearms when they are off duty. It makes sense for officers to OC on duty, in uniform, because they must have the absolute quickest access possible to their firearm in case the SHTF. Because everyone knows that police officers carry firearms, I believe they OC them for ease of access, not as a deterrent. Hell, many officers are attacked despite the fact that they are openly displaying...some are even attacked specifically for their firearms.

Due to the tactical disadvantage of carrying a firearm openly, I'm curious why individuals choose to carry in such a manner. I believe if you carry a firearm openly, then you should be more highly alert and prepared for the possibility that anyone could be a criminal as a LEO is/should be.

Open Carry makes sense for law enforcement, because they KNOW they will be dealing with criminals and they must ALWAYS be prepared to do so, but IMO it makes no sense for civilian self defense, because civilians don't necessarily know when they will be dealing with criminals. Even if LEOs weren't openly displaying firearms, it's understood that they are armed. OCing merely provides the quickest access should they need it.

Civilians don't know when they will be dealing with criminals, so OCing makes no sense, because it merely alerts the criminals that the individual is armed...but the civilian isn't alerted that their are criminals afoot. Unless you intend to maintain a state of heightened alertness and to prepare for the possibility that each individual you come across could be a criminal, as a LEO must, then OCing is a poor choice for civilian self defense.

I understand this will probably ruffle some feathers around here, but I am honestly just looking for a civilized discussion. I don't mean to offend anyone. I just cannot think of a logical justification for OC and I would be interested in hearing what others think.

The main reason I value legal OC is because it protects me in the event that my weapon is accidentally exposed.

I am asking this question from a tactical standpoint. For example, some refuse to pay to exercise their rights, so they OC because it doesn't require them to purchase a permit. Some states require fingerprinting in the CC application process. Some disagree with this requirement and choose to OC instead. These types of things are not what I'm interested in.

So, for the sake of discussion, let's assume that OC and CC are both allowed and that neither require a permit, fingerprinting, etc.

Why OC?

-Quicker Draw

HotRoderX

06-29-2011, 00:16

No other reason then if its legal in your area and you want to you can.
There are times and places OC would be more of a benefit then CC.

Best example I can think of off the top of my head is lets say your going fishing/hunting. Strap on your trusty wood gun and get in the truck to head out. Half way to your destination it dawns on you, your out of beef jerky and bait. Will Walmarts right around the corner from your current location. If OC is legal why shouldn't you walk into Walmart with it strapped on do you really want to leave a firearm in a truck when its not your only option.

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 00:20

No other reason then if its legal in your area and you want to you can.
There are times and places OC would be more of a benefit then CC.

Best example I can think of off the top of my head is lets say your going fishing/hunting. Strap on your trusty wood gun and get in the truck to head out. Half way to your destination it dawns on you, your out of beef jerky and bait. Will Walmarts right around the corner from your current location. If OC is legal why shouldn't you walk into Walmart with it strapped on do you really want to leave a firearm in a truck when its not your only option.
Why OC into Walmart instead of CC is my question?

HotRoderX

06-29-2011, 00:23

Why OC into Walmart instead of CC is my question?

If your going out into the woods more then likely your carrying a full size revolver on a hip holster.

Where talking Smith and Wesson 686, Ruger Superblack Hawk or perhaps a 500 Smith and Wesson.

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 00:35

If your going out into the woods more then likely your carrying a full size revolver on a hip holster.

Where talking Smith and Wesson 686, Ruger Superblack Hawk or perhaps a 500 Smith and Wesson.
OK. I was speaking more about OC vs CC for EDC, but I guess everyone's lifestyle is different. That makes sense. It allows you to carry weapons that cannot easily be concealed. You would also want quickest access to your firearm if a wild animal were coming at you. I have to admit, the outdoors/woods is one of the few places I would consider OC prudent.

eb31

06-29-2011, 00:46

I have a Tn HCP. I OC and CC. Depending mostly on my clothing and which one I feel like doing that particular day. Both have pros and cons. Neither are right or wrong.

drew4691

06-29-2011, 01:01

Why OC?

-Quicker Draw

Because I can :tongueout:

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 01:09

I have a Tn HCP. I OC and CC. Depending mostly on my clothing and which one I feel like doing that particular day. Both have pros and cons. Neither are right or wrong.
I was hoping you might mention what you find to be advantageous about OC and why that leads you to choose OC over CC on occasion. Is it not a conscious reasoning? You just feel like it sometimes? You mentioned it depends mostly on what you're wearing.

AA#5

06-29-2011, 01:15

OK. I was speaking more about OC vs CC for EDC, but I guess everyone's lifestyle is different. That makes sense. It allows you to carry weapons that cannot easily be concealed. You would also want quickest access to your firearm if a wild animal were coming at you. I have to admit, the outdoors/woods is one of the few places I would consider OC prudent.

Exactly. People who OC in areas other than the woods/etc. want their firearm to be seen by others who are not accustomed to seeing firearms on people out of uniform because they want to make a statement and they crave attention - which they wouldn't get in the woods.

You also illustrated another point regarding OC by uniformed police officers. The type of holster a uniformed officer wears is NOTHING like the typical CC or OC holsters worn by the above-mentioned attention whores. A police duty holster has three or more hidden retention devices to prevent the gun from being quickly & easily snatched or lost during a physical struggle. The type of holsters worn by OC'ers allows a gun to be easily snatched. Does that really make you feel safe?

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 01:24

Exactly. People who OC in areas other than the woods/etc. want their firearm to be seen by others who are not accustomed to seeing firearms on people out of uniform because they want to make a statement and they crave attention - which they wouldn't get in the woods.

You also illustrated another point regarding OC by uniformed police officers. The type of holster a uniformed officer wears is NOTHING like the typical CC or OC holsters worn by the above-mentioned attention whores. A police duty holster has three or more hidden retention devices to prevent the gun from being quickly & easily snatched or lost during a physical struggle. The type of holsters worn by OC'ers allows a gun to be easily snatched. Does that really make you feel safe?
While it does strike me as odd that someone would choose OC for EDC, I don't assume that because someone OCs that they don't do so responsibly with proper retention holsters. If you OC without a proper holster, you're an idiot in my book.

I don't assume that someone's an idiot or attention whore simply because he/she OCs. Although, I am curious to find out the logic behind it, because I have yet to come up with an advantage that would make doing so prudent.

eb31

06-29-2011, 01:36

While it does strike me as odd that someone would choose OC for EDC, I don't assume that because someone OCs that they don't do so responsibly with proper retention holsters. If you OC without a proper holster, you're an idiot in my book.

Agreed. Like those choads on Youtube that are only pro OC and carry AK-47's and AR-15 into restaurants. Or you see them with a 1911 in some flimsy holster bouncing all around a dress belt.

I wear a Bullhide gun belt, bought specifically as a gun belt and use a Blackhawk Serpa retention holster. Not so much to prevent someone taking my gun as much as it is for overall safety and proper carry.

For CC I use a leather (forget which brand/model) IWB holster that fully covers the trigger guard...again, for safety and to help prevent AD's.

I'm not going to debate OC v CC because I enjoy both. Some prefer one over the other, to each their own. As I said earlier, both have pros and cons. People should learn to choose for themselves and do what they feel most comfortable and safest doing.

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 02:14

Agreed. Like those choads on Youtube that are only pro OC and carry AK-47's and AR-15 into restaurants. Or you see them with a 1911 in some flimsy holster bouncing all around a dress belt.

I wear a Bullhide gun belt, bought specifically as a gun belt and use a Blackhawk Serpa retention holster. Not so much to prevent someone taking my gun as much as it is for overall safety and proper carry.

For CC I use a leather (forget which brand/model) IWB holster that fully covers the trigger guard...again, for safety and to help prevent AD's.

I'm not going to debate OC v CC because I enjoy both. Some prefer one over the other, to each their own. As I said earlier, both have pros and cons. People should learn to choose for themselves and do what they feel most comfortable and safest doing.
That's exactly my goal with this thread. To hear the advantages of OC and why they lead people to choose OC. I have yet to hear any reasoning so far, merely "sometimes I feel like OCing." I'm wondering how people weigh the pros and cons and come to a logical conclusion to OC. Surely, all OCers don't just choose their method of self defense on a whim, because they can, or because they desperately need attention. So, what is it that leads to this decision? There must be some who have reasoned their way to this decision with some logic.

eb31

06-29-2011, 02:52

Actually, it doesn't need to be some huge, logical, planned out reason. I live in an area where OC is quite acceptable and perfectly normal. There are no "looks" or "MWAG calls"...atleast not on me in all the times I've OC'd. Been out to dinner, out to breakfast, gas stations, Walmart, Target, JCPenny, movies (drive-in and indoor theater), Kohls, Kroger food store, liquor store, church, gunshop, gun range and the list goes on. I've had interactions (for other positive reasons) with THP (Tn Highway Patrol), local Deputy's and PD officers while OC'ing. Never a problem. No questions, no asking for my HCP...nothing.

I guess when you're accustomed to it being a problem, you view it as problematic. I've yet to see one goofball OC irresponsibly in my neck of the woods.

But then again...I'm sure every town has atleast one Leonard Embody. So it I may still see it.

And, I will never buy into the largely used scare tactic of ..."Well, if you OC someone will take your gun". Lmao.

1. Use a retention holster to HELP prevent that from happening.
2. If you (in general, not you specifically) walk around with your head so far up your arse that you would allow a perfect stranger that far inside your "space"...you don't need to he carrying a gun anyway. Your SA sucks and you are more of a danger than the BG.

The bottom line is very simple. Do what you are most comfortable with. I, personally, am a very confident person. I'm VERY comfortable with either mode of carry. No, OC'ing is not a form of "Lookie here!" for me. Perhaps for others, but not for me or anyone I know. Carrying, OC/CC, is as natural as putting on my watch and putting my wallet in my pocket.

I've yet to understand why so many are so argumentative/gungho about OC or CC..one or the other. And why people get to he such *********s in their arguments for their selected choice of carry (not directed at the OP). I'm perfectly comfortable with both.

How you choose to carry, provided it's safe and responsible, is none of my concern. And that door swings both ways.

HerrGlock

06-29-2011, 07:16

It's just what you do or it's just what you don't do.

If you don't see a need or benefit to it, don't do it. Simple.

ashecht

06-29-2011, 07:25

I live in Charlotte NC, and do both OC and CC, depending on where I am going and what I am wearing for both clothing and EDC weapon. If I am running to the supermarket to get something and all I have on are shorts and a tank top, I may or may not pull my shirt down. All the folks there know me after 20 years, and my gun doesnt even get a second glance. Besides, I am usually in and out in 15 minutes. Besides, if I have my G26 on my hip, with my hands at my side you can barely see it to begin with. I have been in line with Charlotte PD officers, and they dont even give me a look except occasionally to ask me what kind of gun it is. If I am going out for extended errands or to a mall(if carry is not specially listed as verboten), I will always conceal it, dont need the hassle of people staring or asking stupid questions. If I go to a party, it is always concealed, no need to alarm strangers or perhaps have a drunken person take a grab at my gun. Especially in the summer, it is irrating to have my gun rub against me in the North Carolina heat and humidity, and I'm not wearing two shirts when its 100 degrees and 90% humidity out.

PlasticGuy

06-29-2011, 07:35

Some people open carry because there is no legal alternative in their locality.

The other people open carry handguns for the same reason people get freaky tattoos on their faces. Poor judgement and a desire for attention.

There is no tactical advantage at all, and in fact creates a lot of disadvantages and risks.

hockeyrcks9901

06-29-2011, 07:51

Right now it's not legal in Florida but there are some legislators working on that. But it gets very hot and humid here in the summer months. I'm talking 105*F with 99% humidity. Wearing an extra shirt is out of the question so the holster and gun have to ride against your skin. That's uncomfortable and I would prefer to OC due to comfort.

Another reason is that I can carry a larger caliber or a full size instead of a compact.

It can provide slightly better draw times though I doubt it's a big improvement.

My main reason for wanting it here in Florida is comfort in the summer months and the ability to carry a "better" weapon. My preference would probably still be CC but OC had it's place.

Unistat

06-29-2011, 07:58

3 reasons.

1. In Michigan, if you have a CC permit, you can OC in most gun free zones. Screwy, but true.

2. In Michigan it does not require a license. If someone decides to carry, they can, without the months (2.5 in my case) of waiting that occurs when we apply for a CC permit.

3. In an OC state, I don't worry about accidentaly committing a crime if my shirt rides up or my jacket flaps open.

I CC 98% of the time, but there are situations where I OC.

1811guy

06-29-2011, 07:59

Why OC into Walmart instead of CC is my question?

Because people who OC routinely wear shirts that are impossible to untuck.

Seriously, I am plainclothes and am required to carry concealed. If I come off the range where I was carrying openly, I just untuck my shirt. No biggie. The Walmart scenario has no merit. So is the hot and sweaty FL scenario. I have worn a cotton T-shirt all my life. Any argument for OC I have ever seen has been weak-arsed at best. Are those really the best arguments the OC crowd can throw out there?

bandmasterjf

06-29-2011, 08:15

Actually, it doesn't need to be some huge, logical, planned out reason. I live in an area where OC is quite acceptable and perfectly normal. There are no "looks" or "MWAG calls"...atleast not on me in all the times I've OC'd. Been out to dinner, out to breakfast, gas stations, Walmart, Target, JCPenny, movies (drive-in and indoor theater), Kohls, Kroger food store, liquor store, church, gunshop, gun range and the list goes on. I've had interactions (for other positive reasons) with THP (Tn Highway Patrol), local Deputy's and PD officers while OC'ing. Never a problem. No questions, no asking for my HCP...nothing.

I guess when you're accustomed to it being a problem, you view it as problematic. I've yet to see one goofball OC irresponsibly in my neck of the woods.

But then again...I'm sure every town has at least one Leonard Embody. So it I may still see it.

And, I will never buy into the largely used scare tactic of ..."Well, if you OC someone will take your gun". Lmao.

1. Use a retention holster to HELP prevent that from happening.
2. If you (in general, not you specifically) walk around with your head so far up your arse that you would allow a perfect stranger that far inside your "space"...you don't need to he carrying a gun anyway. Your SA sucks and you are more of a danger than the BG.

The bottom line is very simple. Do what you are most comfortable with. I, personally, am a very confident person. I'm VERY comfortable with either mode of carry. No, OC'ing is not a form of "Lookie here!" for me. Perhaps for others, but not for me or anyone I know. Carrying, OC/CC, is as natural as putting on my watch and putting my wallet in my pocket.

I've yet to understand why so many are so argumentative/gungho about OC or CC..one or the other. And why people get to he such *********s in their arguments for their selected choice of carry (not directed at the OP). I'm perfectly comfortable with both.

How you choose to carry, provided it's safe and responsible, is none of my concern. And that door swings both ways.

I've heard grumblings of carry issues in Memphis, what gives with that?

I only open carry in the woods during hunting season, not legal otherwise. I don't think I would even it was legal. I'm not a very imposing figure and I would rather the BG not knowing I'm carrying, but that's just me. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Gunnut 45/454

06-29-2011, 09:01

OD Green Glock 19
Simple ease of access, NO LOSS of tactical advantage! Deters crimes, Cause I can , it pisses off those that hate OC like you and of course make liberals heads spin! What could be better!:rofl:

poodleplumber

06-29-2011, 09:10

I'm talking 105*F with 99% humidity. Wearing an extra shirt is out of the question so the holster and gun have to ride against your skin.

I live on the east coast of Florida. It seldom goes above 95, but the humidity is often quite high. A T or tank under my outside shirt helps a lot with comfort in the heat, by keeping my outer shirt from sticking to me and providing an insulating layer of air between the shirts. I highly recommend it, especially for CC. Unless you are more concerned with being cool than feeling cool, of course. :-)

hockeyrcks9901

06-29-2011, 09:14

Because people who OC routinely wear shirts that are impossible to untuck.

Seriously, I am plainclothes and am required to carry concealed. If I come off the range where I was carrying openly, I just untuck my shirt. No biggie. The Walmart scenario has no merit. So is the hot and sweaty FL scenario. I have worn a cotton T-shirt all my life. Any argument for OC I have ever seen has been weak-arsed at best. Are those really the best arguments the OC crowd can throw out there?

So you are saying that it is not more comfortable to OC? Or are you just saying that because you can deal with the discomfort, that everyone else should?

hockeyrcks9901

06-29-2011, 09:16

I live on the east coast of Florida. It seldom goes above 95, but the humidity is often quite high. A T or tank under my outside shirt helps a lot with comfort in the heat, by keeping my outer shirt from sticking to me and providing an insulating layer of air between the shirts. I highly recommend it, especially for CC. Unless you are more concerned with being cool than feeling cool, of course. :-)

I sweat too much. I'm not kidding either, I have seriously considered getting botox treatment for some of my sweat glands. Strangely, my armpits don't sweat except in extreme conditions.

For example, this morning I went to the air conditioned gym and didn't work out too hard but my shirt was soaking wet. Wearing two shirts would just mean twice the laundry for me. I do understand that wearing extra clothing can keep the body cooler but it just doesn't work for me. Loosing weight would probably help as well, and I'm working on that, down 25lbs this year.

gommer

06-29-2011, 09:21

I OC for comfort. Pure and simple, no other reason.

I also have a 32" waist, so CC is not easy for me without wearing slouchy clothing.

I only OC on private land, though. CC is preferred just because I want my sidearm to be my business, and mine alone.

boyscout399

06-29-2011, 09:21

OC has the possibility of acting as a deterrent. Concealed Carry offers no deterrent factor. I am skinny and tall, an easy target for a criminal if he doesn't think I'm armed. However, if that criminal notices the firearm, they will probably decide I'm not worth the risk.

A visible firearm makes the risk vs reward factor differently to a sane criminal. In the case of an insane criminal, open or concealed won't matter and I'd rather have the same ease of access advantage that is afforded to the police.

BailRecoveryAgent

06-29-2011, 09:53

I like to be the one that makes the decision how I carry my weapon. I open carry when I'm working most of the time. In my free time, I conceal carry unless in the woods or other outdoor activity, or in an environment that I feel is appropriate for open carry. I don't allow my decision to be based upon the predicted reactions of those who fear or misunderstand guns and those who carry them.

If open carry wasn't legal in my state, I couldn't do it even though I work in bail enforcement and have my cpl along with an armed certification from my states criminal justice training commission. I have to abide by the same carry laws as every other citizen with their cpl or who open carries.

So for me, when working, open carry is very advantageous, when not working, its not most of the time. But I fully support someone's else who makes the decision to open carry if they so choose, and don't do it to be an attention grabber, which isn't the case most of the time even though the anti open carry people would have you believe that it is.

KCinBAMA

06-29-2011, 09:58

As someone who has been looking at this subject for over a year, I am still deciding if open carry is right for me. Below are my thoughts.

Aside from states like WI, where OC is the only legal option (for now), I'm curious why individuals choose to open carry firearms over carrying them concealed.

While I was waiting for my CHP to arrive I would OC, simply because it was the only legal way for me to carry my firearm. Aside from feeling like everyone was looking at me(they weren't, but it felt like they were) I felt a little uncomfortable/exposed and wondered why someone would choose to carry their firearm in such a manner.

Many LE agencies forbid their officers from open carrying firearms when they are off duty. It makes sense for officers to OC on duty, in uniform, because they must have the absolute quickest access possible to their firearm in case the SHTF. Because everyone knows that police officers carry firearms, I believe they OC them for ease of access, not as a deterrent. Hell, many officers are attacked despite the fact that they are openly displaying...some are even attacked specifically for their firearms.

I have seen the claim that "officers have been attacked specifically for their firearms" on many forums, so, it must be true. However, I am not aware of any report or statistics of this claim. Can you provide a source for this claim so I can do my own research?

If open carriers are attacked specifically for their firearms, there would be reports filed and news stories about them. As an unscientific observation, if only 1% of the 25,000 members of the OpenCarry.org forum actually open carry on a daily basis, that would be 250 folks OCing daily, times 365 = 91,000 opportunities for one to be attacked in the past year. As I said earlier, I have been monitoring 'open carry' stories, blogs, etc via a Google Alert for the past year and only a couple have shown up. Perhaps a year is not enough time or perhaps I missed more stories. Again, if you have a source that I can research, I'd like to check it out.

To balance the "open carriers are attacked for their firearms", I am aware that open carriers also claim a 'deterrence' value, however, those would be very hard to quantify. How many criminals report they were going to commit a crime until they saw an open carrier? These non-crimes do not make the news. Except, of course, for the Waffle House incident in Kennesaw, GA.
( http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw)

Due to the tactical disadvantage of carrying a firearm openly,
It seems to me that "quickest access possible" and "ease of access" are advantages - not disadvantages. Also, it allows a larger firearm to be conveniently carried. It would also allow the open carrier to 'show' he is not defenseless to the less observant criminal types without a potential criminal charge of brandishing. As an example, a hidden gun can usually only be legally pulled in a deadly force situation, it may be too late. Before a situation has risen to the level of deadly force, the open carrier can position his strong side toward a potential threat in an attempt to stop the threat level rising without risking a brandishing charge. Mainsail made some very good points several years ago here
( http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/7230-open-carry-argument.html )

I'm curious why individuals choose to carry in such a manner. I believe if you carry a firearm openly, then you should be more highly alert and prepared for the possibility that anyone could be a criminal as a LEO is/should be.

Agreed.

Open Carry makes sense for law enforcement, because they KNOW they will be dealing with criminals and they must ALWAYS be prepared to do so, but IMO it makes no sense for civilian self defense, because civilians don't necessarily know when they will be dealing with criminals. Even if LEOs weren't openly displaying firearms, it's understood that they are armed. OCing merely provides the quickest access should they need it.

Civilians don't know when they will be dealing with criminals, so OCing makes no sense, because it merely alerts the criminals that the individual is armed...but the civilian isn't alerted that their are criminals afoot.

It seems to me that civilians won't have any advance notice of a criminal incident happening to them, whether they are OC ,CC, or NoC and if they do, it will be measured in seconds, not minutes as a police officer called to a scene is likely to have. Having quick and easy access to a larger firearm would be an advantage, not a disadvantage.

Unless you intend to maintain a state of heightened alertness and to prepare for the possibility that each individual you come across could be a criminal, as a LEO must, then OCing is a poor choice for civilian self defense.

Agreed, Condition Yellow.

I understand this will probably ruffle some feathers around here, but I am honestly just looking for a civilized discussion. I don't mean to offend anyone. I just cannot think of a logical justification for OC and I would be interested in hearing what others think.

I believe you are sincere in your questions and concerns, as a result, I have offered my thoughts. FWIW, I have never open carried (for other reasons), however, I have been following this subject for quite a while and my request for a source for the 'officers attacked for their gun' claim is a sincere one.

The main reason I value legal OC is because it protects me in the event that my weapon is accidentally exposed.

I am asking this question from a tactical standpoint. For example, some refuse to pay to exercise their rights, so they OC because it doesn't require them to purchase a permit. Some states require fingerprinting in the CC application process. Some disagree with this requirement and choose to OC instead. These types of things are not what I'm interested in.

So, for the sake of discussion, let's assume that OC and CC are both allowed and that neither require a permit, fingerprinting, etc.

Why OC?

quickest access possible
ease of access
allows for a larger firearm
deterrence (I understand we disagree on this one)

And I will add one more, from a legislative 'tactical' standpoint. I believe that concealed carriers are extremely upstanding individuals who have subjected themselves to training, permit registrations, firearm purchases, etc at considerable costs to themselves for the basic human right of self defense. These individuals are 'in the closet' because their basic self defense tool is invisible to the general population. If the anti-gunners could see all the fine, upstanding folks that carry, then they may not be so inclined to pass all the restrictive laws across this country to 'feel good' (BTW, I love your tag line of the definition of Gun Control!) Anyways, the OPEN CARRIER is 'out of the closet' . He knows he is holding himself up to being scrutinized, harassed, attacked?, and judged by citizens and LEOs alike. However, he is moving the gun conversation out into the open. Just as other groups are coming 'out of the closet' to demand their rights, how are the gun owners going to do it? Of course, we could carry signs and picket or have marches and parades. Or, we could open carry to prove we are not the crazies and nutjobs we are made out to be. Although I have not joined their ranks, I fully support their decision to open carry, in spite of all the consequences.

KC

smokeross

06-29-2011, 10:18

That's exactly my goal with this thread. To hear the advantages of OC and why they lead people to choose OC. I have yet to hear any reasoning so far, merely "sometimes I feel like OCing." I'm wondering how people weigh the pros and cons and come to a logical conclusion to OC. Surely, all OCers don't just choose their method of self defense on a whim, because they can, or because they desperately need attention. So, what is it that leads to this decision? There must be some who have reasoned their way to this decision with some logic.
I don't weigh any 'pros and cons'. I strap the 5" Redhawk on my hip in an Uncle Mikes leather holster and go to town. If it freaks you out, too bad. Sometimes I may carry a Walther, or S&W 686 CC. Depends on what I'm doing.
I've packed my Redhawk like that so much, I'm pretty sure I could get 'the drop' on you. I don't even have to think about it.

sigchaser723

06-29-2011, 10:30

I mostly cc but on occasion oc as well. The bottom line is there is really no advantage but comfort. It also presents some problems such as a loss of tactical advantage and could cause undo attention to be paid to you. It eliminates any options that you have not to act because now you are a threat to the bad guy as well. I frankly don't have an issue with people ocing its legal so whatever floats their boat. My issue comes with the lack of training and improper equipment for oc. If you are going to oc wear a security rig and get some weapon retention training. Most cops are shot with their own weapons it is a fact and they have both those advantages so what makes you think you will survive a gun grab?

AA#5

06-29-2011, 10:41

While it does strike me as odd that someone would choose OC for EDC, I don't assume that because someone OCs that they don't do so responsibly with proper retention holsters. If you OC without a proper holster, you're an idiot in my book.

I don't assume that someone's an idiot or attention whore simply because he/she OCs. Although, I am curious to find out the logic behind it, because I have yet to come up with an advantage that would make doing so prudent.

Well, all you have to do to verify both points is check out some You Tube videos of OC'ers enjoying the attention from the general public as well as from the police (that's why they tape the incidents). They're not "helping gun rights" or "making people aware" or "making people comfortable about firearms;" they're only making people aware that more gun laws need to be passed. Also, note the holsters they're wearing - mostly either friction retention or thumbsnap types meant for CC.

smokeross

06-29-2011, 10:50

I have been trained. Never heard of a 'gun grab' on a private citizen. Officer Watson did get killed with his own gun. He was trained and had a retention holster. Shot in the back by a deranged Forstner. I don't have to go around all day confronting BG's. If I do end up in a confrontation, I won't be trying to cuff them.

dwalker84

06-29-2011, 10:55

I sometimes carry openly, appendix position. I live in Arizona where other then a few odd looks from people visiting the state, no one really cares.

Fast draw - also being appendix carry I have alot more control over my firearm in the rare chance of a gun grab.

It keeps bums, methheads, thugs, etc from approaching me asking for whatever it is that they want - I can't count the number of times some scum would start to walk towards me and instantly turn the other direction as soon as they saw my firearm. I believe this is a tactical advantage, not disadvantage. OC will avoid many situations that CC would have to deal with - that could then lead to an altercation.
A few months ago I was standing in line at a Circle K getting some stuff in the store - 3 guys came in threw the doors, quickly, doing that bouncing monkey thug thing that gangbangers do when they're excited/antsy. They start rushing towards the counter, the guy's eyes in front hit my wasteline, turned his head and said "pig. pig." kinda slapped the guy behind him in the chest as to stop him, turned around, and they quickly slipped out of the store. It was absolutely obvious what they were up to.

It's hot as hell here, I don't like the extra clothing involved and having a sweaty gun up against my skin. During the summer months especially.

I'm a clean cut guy, and always well dressed - I don't look like a scrub when I'm carrying. I've turned on several people to shooting/carrying by simply answering questions. I had a lady come up to me not too long ago asking questions - she had never shot a gun before, knew nothing about them, etc, she had just got a divorce and was worried about her ex-husband hurting her. I gave her directions to the local range, told her what guns to rent, and advised her to take a ccw class. Months later I saw her at the range, with her OWN gun shooting a pretty nice size hole at 10 yards. Tell me how many opportunities you get to do that when you're CCW?

I prefer CCW in most cases, as I do not like to stand out - but OC has it's advantages, and it has it's time and place. Don't simply discredit it without a good reason.

Link some articles that show someone was shot first simply because they were OCing. I see the logic, and I'm sure it could happen, but how likely is it? C'mon.

Rights are like muscles - If you don't use them, you lose them. USE EM!

Gunnut 45/454

06-29-2011, 11:06

Excellant thread maybe now we can put this to bed once and for all! OC is perfectly fine and where legal should be done frequently! If you don't like it don't do it but don't crap on those that do!:supergrin:

dwalker84

06-29-2011, 11:08

Well, all you have to do to verify both points is check out some You Tube videos of OC'ers enjoying the attention from the general public as well as from the police (that's why they tape the incidents). They're not "helping gun rights" or "making people aware" or "making people comfortable about firearms;" they're only making people aware that more gun laws need to be passed. Also, note the holsters they're wearing - mostly either friction retention or thumbsnap types meant for CC.

I'm sure there are people out there that enjoy OC for the attention only. Fine. The logic that someone is seeking attention because they're smart enough to bring a recording device with them is simply ridiculous. If I knew I was going to get harassed by the police, I would be SURE I had a recorder with me - To not do so would be completely stupid on my part. Would you say a black man was an attention whore if he were to bring a recording device with him while he goes about his business in a town where the police are known to be racist, and abuse their authority?

Like I said in the past AA#5, you are projecting.

sigchaser723

06-29-2011, 11:12

I agree don't crap on people quietly and legally ocing they are doing nothing wrong and if trained good for them. The people that should be crapped on are the idiots that walk around with cameras attempting to make a scene they do nothing for gun rights and just crave attention.

AA#5

06-29-2011, 11:12

I have been trained. Never heard of a 'gun grab' on a private citizen. Officer Watson did get killed with his own gun. He was trained and had a retention holster. Shot in the back by a deranged Forstner. I don't have to go around all day confronting BG's. If I do end up in a confrontation, I won't be trying to cuff them.

Exactly. If a police officer with a retention holster and training can still be killed with his own gun, imagine how easy it would be for a typical OC'er without a retention holster & no training.

MrGlock21

06-29-2011, 11:15

Actually, it doesn't need to be some huge, logical, planned out reason. I live in an area where OC is quite acceptable and perfectly normal. There are no "looks" or "MWAG calls"...atleast not on me in all the times I've OC'd. Been out to dinner, out to breakfast, gas stations, Walmart, Target, JCPenny, movies (drive-in and indoor theater), Kohls, Kroger food store, liquor store, church, gunshop, gun range and the list goes on. I've had interactions (for other positive reasons) with THP (Tn Highway Patrol), local Deputy's and PD officers while OC'ing. Never a problem. No questions, no asking for my HCP...nothing.

I guess when you're accustomed to it being a problem, you view it as problematic. I've yet to see one goofball OC irresponsibly in my neck of the woods.

But then again...I'm sure every town has atleast one Leonard Embody. So it I may still see it.

And, I will never buy into the largely used scare tactic of ..."Well, if you OC someone will take your gun". Lmao.

1. Use a retention holster to HELP prevent that from happening.
2. If you (in general, not you specifically) walk around with your head so far up your arse that you would allow a perfect stranger that far inside your "space"...you don't need to he carrying a gun anyway. Your SA sucks and you are more of a danger than the BG.

The bottom line is very simple. Do what you are most comfortable with. I, personally, am a very confident person. I'm VERY comfortable with either mode of carry. No, OC'ing is not a form of "Lookie here!" for me. Perhaps for others, but not for me or anyone I know. Carrying, OC/CC, is as natural as putting on my watch and putting my wallet in my pocket.

I've yet to understand why so many are so argumentative/gungho about OC or CC..one or the other. And why people get to he such *********s in their arguments for their selected choice of carry (not directed at the OP). I'm perfectly comfortable with both.

How you choose to carry, provided it's safe and responsible, is none of my concern. And that door swings both ways.

:goodpost:

AA#5

06-29-2011, 11:18

I have been trained. Never heard of a 'gun grab' on a private citizen. Officer Watson did get killed with his own gun. He was trained and had a retention holster. Shot in the back by a deranged Forstner. I don't have to go around all day confronting BG's. If I do end up in a confrontation, I won't be trying to cuff them.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html

Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint

[Quoted article deleted to comply with GT Copyright Rules]

eb31

06-29-2011, 11:51

I live in Charlotte NC, and do both OC and CC, depending on where I am going and what I am wearing for both clothing and EDC weapon. If I am running to the supermarket to get something and all I have on are shorts and a tank top, I may or may not pull my shirt down. All the folks there know me after 20 years, and my gun doesnt even get a second glance. Besides, I am usually in and out in 15 minutes. Besides, if I have my G26 on my hip, with my hands at my side you can barely see it to begin with. I have been in line with Charlotte PD officers, and they dont even give me a look except occasionally to ask me what kind of gun it is. If I am going out for extended errands or to a mall(if carry is not specially listed as verboten), I will always conceal it, dont need the hassle of people staring or asking stupid questions. If I go to a party, it is always concealed, no need to alarm strangers or perhaps have a drunken person take a grab at my gun. Especially in the summer, it is irrating to have my gun rub against me in the North Carolina heat and humidity, and I'm not wearing two shirts when its 100 degrees and 90% humidity out.

Well said.

smokeross

06-29-2011, 11:57

[QUOTE

The president of Wisconsin Carry, Nik Clark, says 100's of thousands of people open carry and he's never heard of anything like this.

"So it really is a very unusual situation, very unique," Clark said./QUOTE]

eb31

06-29-2011, 11:58

OC has the possibility of acting as a deterrent. Concealed Carry offers no deterrent factor. I am skinny and tall, an easy target for a criminal if he doesn't think I'm armed. However, if that criminal notices the firearm, they will probably decide I'm not worth the risk.

A visible firearm makes the risk vs reward factor differently to a sane criminal. In the case of an insane criminal, open or concealed won't matter and I'd rather have the same ease of access advantage that is afforded to the police.

Thank you for putting that into words the right way. I was thinking it, but it was late and I just didn't have the energy lol

cowboy1964

06-29-2011, 13:49

In an OC state, I don't worry about accidentaly committing a crime if my shirt rides up or my jacket flaps open.

That's not a reason to OC, it's a side benefit of being legally able to.

blackjack

06-29-2011, 14:20

I sometimes carry openly, appendix position. I live in Arizona where other then a few odd looks from people visiting the state, no one really cares.

Fast draw - also being appendix carry I have alot more control over my firearm in the rare chance of a gun grab.

It keeps bums, methheads, thugs, etc from approaching me asking for whatever it is that they want - I can't count the number of times some scum would start to walk towards me and instantly turn the other direction as soon as they saw my firearm. I believe this is a tactical advantage, not disadvantage. OC will avoid many situations that CC would have to deal with - that could then lead to an altercation.
A few months ago I was standing in line at a Circle K getting some stuff in the store - 3 guys came in threw the doors, quickly, doing that bouncing monkey thug thing that gangbangers do when they're excited/antsy. They start rushing towards the counter, the guy's eyes in front hit my wasteline, turned his head and said "pig. pig." kinda slapped the guy behind him in the chest as to stop him, turned around, and they quickly slipped out of the store. It was absolutely obvious what they were up to.

It's hot as hell here, I don't like the extra clothing involved and having a sweaty gun up against my skin. During the summer months especially.

I'm a clean cut guy, and always well dressed - I don't look like a scrub when I'm carrying. I've turned on several people to shooting/carrying by simply answering questions. I had a lady come up to me not too long ago asking questions - she had never shot a gun before, knew nothing about them, etc, she had just got a divorce and was worried about her ex-husband hurting her. I gave her directions to the local range, told her what guns to rent, and advised her to take a ccw class. Months later I saw her at the range, with her OWN gun shooting a pretty nice size hole at 10 yards. Tell me how many opportunities you get to do that when you're CCW?

I prefer CCW in most cases, as I do not like to stand out - but OC has it's advantages, and it has it's time and place. Don't simply discredit it without a good reason.

Link some articles that show someone was shot first simply because they were OCing. I see the logic, and I'm sure it could happen, but how likely is it? C'mon.

:goodpost: ...especially the BOLD sections. It is hotter than 6 acres of Hell here in OK right now, especially with the humidity. I dearly wish we had OC for the comfort factor. As to time/place, sounds like that Circle K was a good time/place -- BTDT and was glad to have a CC firearm on me.

I'm sure there are people out there that enjoy OC for the attention only. Fine. The logic that someone is seeking attention because they're smart enough to bring a recording device with them is simply ridiculous. If I knew I was going to get harassed by the police, I would be SURE I had a recorder with me - To not do so would be completely stupid on my part. Would you say a black man was an attention whore if he were to bring a recording device with him while he goes about his business in a town where the police are known to be racist, and abuse their authority?

Like I said in the past AA#5, you are projecting.

^^^^^ Also an excellent post, especially the "projecting" analysis -- needed to be said!

Gunnut 45/454

06-29-2011, 14:25

AA#5
Perfect example of a person with Zero situational awarness! With no first hand response from the man robbed we have no idea what he was doing to allow the crime to happen! Could he have had his walkman on - emerst in his cell phone texting etc. I see the cell phone zombies walking around and into stuff all day long! Was he stupid walking down a pitch black alley/street? Was he in a high crime area? OC is no gaurantee you will not be a victim of a crime -nothing is! Strap a cop to your back and you still could be robbed!:rofl: Please explain how this would hae been different if he had CC'd?:dunno:

dwalker84

06-29-2011, 15:46

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html

Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint

[Quoted article deleted to comply with GT Copyright Rules]

Hotdamn! 1 recorded gun grab from an OC'er with no situational awareness, and probably zero training. Not exactly proving your point. One time, dang. I think my odds of winning the jackpot lottery 3 times in one day are better than a gun grab OCing in my entire lifetime. :faint:

See if you can find me an article where average joe citizen who was OCing was shot/killed first because they were open carrying. :yawn:

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 17:11

I think some of you may have misjudged me and jumped to the conclusion that I hate OCers and have made this thread as an outlet to put down OC. That's not the case, at all. I respect everyone's right to do as they please. If you choose to OC, that's your business. It's no skin off my back. I try to be as objective as possible about things. I started this thread with genuine interest in what leads so many to choose to OC. I personally do not see the appeal and prefer to CC in most circumstances. However, that does not mean that I let my personal opinion interfere with my reasoning.

I just happened to notice that many LE agencies prohibit their officers from OCing off-duty. It makes a lot of sense to me that this would be the case, because IMO CC is better suited for the needs of civilian carry, while OC makes the most sense for uniformed patrol. I made this thread to see what leads OCers to favor open carry over concealed carry.

I have nothing against OCers simply because we disagree. Similarly, I do not side with CCers simply because we prefer the same method of carry. I am an adult and use logic and reason to form my opinions.

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 17:14

That's not a reason to OC, it's a side benefit of being legally able to.
Thank you. Judging by some of the responses, I believe many have failed to completely read or comprehend my original post.

Mister_Beefy

06-29-2011, 17:28

Exactly. If a police officer with a retention holster and training can still be killed with his own gun, imagine how easy it would be for a typical OC'er without a retention holster & no training.

that is a pretty weak statement.

why open carry? It's your right, and there are people that are actively trying to take it away.

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 17:32

As someone who has been looking at this subject for over a year, I am still deciding if open carry is right for me. Below are my thoughts.

I have seen the claim that "officers have been attacked specifically for their firearms" on many forums, so, it must be true. However, I am not aware of any report or statistics of this claim. Can you provide a source for this claim so I can do my own research?

If open carriers are attacked specifically for their firearms, there would be reports filed and news stories about them. As an unscientific observation, if only 1% of the 25,000 members of the OpenCarry.org forum actually open carry on a daily basis, that would be 250 folks OCing daily, times 365 = 91,000 opportunities for one to be attacked in the past year. As I said earlier, I have been monitoring 'open carry' stories, blogs, etc via a Google Alert for the past year and only a couple have shown up. Perhaps a year is not enough time or perhaps I missed more stories. Again, if you have a source that I can research, I'd like to check it out.

To balance the "open carriers are attacked for their firearms", I am aware that open carriers also claim a 'deterrence' value, however, those would be very hard to quantify. How many criminals report they were going to commit a crime until they saw an open carrier? These non-crimes do not make the news. Except, of course, for the Waffle House incident in Kennesaw, GA.
( http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw)

It seems to me that "quickest access possible" and "ease of access" are advantages - not disadvantages. Also, it allows a larger firearm to be conveniently carried. It would also allow the open carrier to 'show' he is not defenseless to the less observant criminal types without a potential criminal charge of brandishing. As an example, a hidden gun can usually only be legally pulled in a deadly force situation, it may be too late. Before a situation has risen to the level of deadly force, the open carrier can position his strong side toward a potential threat in an attempt to stop the threat level rising without risking a brandishing charge. Mainsail made some very good points several years ago here
( http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/7230-open-carry-argument.html )

Agreed.

It seems to me that civilians won't have any advance notice of a criminal incident happening to them, whether they are OC ,CC, or NoC and if they do, it will be measured in seconds, not minutes as a police officer called to a scene is likely to have. Having quick and easy access to a larger firearm would be an advantage, not a disadvantage.

Agreed, Condition Yellow.

I believe you are sincere in your questions and concerns, as a result, I have offered my thoughts. FWIW, I have never open carried (for other reasons), however, I have been following this subject for quite a while and my request for a source for the 'officers attacked for their gun' claim is a sincere one.

quickest access possible
ease of access
allows for a larger firearm
deterrence (I understand we disagree on this one)

And I will add one more, from a legislative 'tactical' standpoint. I believe that concealed carriers are extremely upstanding individuals who have subjected themselves to training, permit registrations, firearm purchases, etc at considerable costs to themselves for the basic human right of self defense. These individuals are 'in the closet' because their basic self defense tool is invisible to the general population. If the anti-gunners could see all the fine, upstanding folks that carry, then they may not be so inclined to pass all the restrictive laws across this country to 'feel good' (BTW, I love your tag line of the definition of Gun Control!) Anyways, the OPEN CARRIER is 'out of the closet' . He knows he is holding himself up to being scrutinized, harassed, attacked?, and judged by citizens and LEOs alike. However, he is moving the gun conversation out into the open. Just as other groups are coming 'out of the closet' to demand their rights, how are the gun owners going to do it? Of course, we could carry signs and picket or have marches and parades. Or, we could open carry to prove we are not the crazies and nutjobs we are made out to be. Although I have not joined their ranks, I fully support their decision to open carry, in spite of all the consequences.

KC

Thanks for the response. I think the fact that officers are attacked despite them openly carrying firearms speaks volumes about the deterrence factor afforded by OC. I do not have any specific examples of officers being attacked specifically for their weapons. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. In the world we live in, I'm sure it's probably happened a time or two, but I think the point is made regardless. If criminals are bold enough to attack police officers who are openly carrying firearms, I doubt they will be deterred by Joe Schmoe out shopping simply because he has a firearm strapped on his waist. Hell, they may even attack him specifically for it. Who knows? I'm not saying it will happen, but it's possible. It's far less likely with CC. h

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 17:36

As someone who has been looking at this subject for over a year, I am still deciding if open carry is right for me. Below are my thoughts.

I have seen the claim that "officers have been attacked specifically for their firearms" on many forums, so, it must be true. However, I am not aware of any report or statistics of this claim. Can you provide a source for this claim so I can do my own research?

If open carriers are attacked specifically for their firearms, there would be reports filed and news stories about them. As an unscientific observation, if only 1% of the 25,000 members of the OpenCarry.org forum actually open carry on a daily basis, that would be 250 folks OCing daily, times 365 = 91,000 opportunities for one to be attacked in the past year. As I said earlier, I have been monitoring 'open carry' stories, blogs, etc via a Google Alert for the past year and only a couple have shown up. Perhaps a year is not enough time or perhaps I missed more stories. Again, if you have a source that I can research, I'd like to check it out.

To balance the "open carriers are attacked for their firearms", I am aware that open carriers also claim a 'deterrence' value, however, those would be very hard to quantify. How many criminals report they were going to commit a crime until they saw an open carrier? These non-crimes do not make the news. Except, of course, for the Waffle House incident in Kennesaw, GA.
( http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw)

It seems to me that "quickest access possible" and "ease of access" are advantages - not disadvantages. Also, it allows a larger firearm to be conveniently carried. It would also allow the open carrier to 'show' he is not defenseless to the less observant criminal types without a potential criminal charge of brandishing. As an example, a hidden gun can usually only be legally pulled in a deadly force situation, it may be too late. Before a situation has risen to the level of deadly force, the open carrier can position his strong side toward a potential threat in an attempt to stop the threat level rising without risking a brandishing charge. Mainsail made some very good points several years ago here
( http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/7230-open-carry-argument.html )

Agreed.

It seems to me that civilians won't have any advance notice of a criminal incident happening to them, whether they are OC ,CC, or NoC and if they do, it will be measured in seconds, not minutes as a police officer called to a scene is likely to have. Having quick and easy access to a larger firearm would be an advantage, not a disadvantage.

Agreed, Condition Yellow.

I believe you are sincere in your questions and concerns, as a result, I have offered my thoughts. FWIW, I have never open carried (for other reasons), however, I have been following this subject for quite a while and my request for a source for the 'officers attacked for their gun' claim is a sincere one.

quickest access possible
ease of access
allows for a larger firearm
deterrence (I understand we disagree on this one)

And I will add one more, from a legislative 'tactical' standpoint. I believe that concealed carriers are extremely upstanding individuals who have subjected themselves to training, permit registrations, firearm purchases, etc at considerable costs to themselves for the basic human right of self defense. These individuals are 'in the closet' because their basic self defense tool is invisible to the general population. If the anti-gunners could see all the fine, upstanding folks that carry, then they may not be so inclined to pass all the restrictive laws across this country to 'feel good' (BTW, I love your tag line of the definition of Gun Control!) Anyways, the OPEN CARRIER is 'out of the closet' . He knows he is holding himself up to being scrutinized, harassed, attacked?, and judged by citizens and LEOs alike. However, he is moving the gun conversation out into the open. Just as other groups are coming 'out of the closet' to demand their rights, how are the gun owners going to do it? Of course, we could carry signs and picket or have marches and parades. Or, we could open carry to prove we are not the crazies and nutjobs we are made out to be. Although I have not joined their ranks, I fully support their decision to open carry, in spite of all the consequences.

KC

Thanks for the response. I think the fact that officers are attacked despite them openly carrying firearms speaks volumes about the deterrence factor afforded by OC. I do not have any specific examples of officers being attacked specifically for their weapons. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. In the world we live in, I'm sure it's probably happened a time or two, but I think the point is made regardless. If criminals are bold enough to attack police officers who are openly carrying firearms, I doubt they will be deterred by Joe Schmoe out shopping simply because he has a firearm strapped on his waist. Hell, they may even attack him specifically for it. Who knows? I'm not saying it will happen, but it's possible. Crazier things have happened. It's far less likely with CC.

I think the deterrence factor is grossly overstated by OC proponents. Hell, CC proponents argue that CC has a deterrence factor as well, because criminals know that some citizens carry firearms concealed for self defense. The fact that criminals don't know WHO is CCing could deter them from committing crimes. However, I think that criminals being deterred by OC is just about as unlikely as a criminal being deterred by CC. There are a lot of dumb criminals out there.

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 17:50

that is a pretty weak statement.

why open carry? It's your right, and there are people that are actively trying to take it away.
Honestly, I think "OC Advocates" are doing more to take away their own rights than most gun grabbers can manage on their own.

*Not all OCers, the "advocates":upeyes:

Mister_Beefy

06-29-2011, 18:02

Honestly, I think "OC Advocates" are doing more to take away their own rights than most gun grabbers can manage on their own.

*Not all OCers, the "advocates":upeyes:

if you have a right, you better not exercise it, or it will be taken away. :rofl:

drew4691

06-29-2011, 18:10

it might not mean much, and maybe it does... when i CC i do a lot of pocket carry with LCP.

If I OC I'll have a quicker draw. If you CC in the heat of battle you might not be able to draw your weapon fast enough, or it might get caught in your pocket or shirt...

AA#5

06-29-2011, 18:11

Honestly, I think "OC Advocates" are doing more to take away their own rights than most gun grabbers can manage on their own.

*Not all OCers, the "advocates":upeyes:

Ya got that right. It will eventually backfire & there will be more laws passed as a result, but hey.....at least the OC'ers will be able to say, "I was the center of attention while shopping & I got everybody in that market to look at me & talk about me. Some even feared me."

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 18:12

It's just what you do or it's just what you don't do.

If you don't see a need or benefit to it, don't do it. Simple.
I don't, therefore I don't. If it's ok with you I'm curious what led others to choose it. I was simply looking to have a discussion with other enthusiasts.

OD Green Glock 19
Simple ease of access, NO LOSS of tactical advantage! Deters crimes, Cause I can , it pisses off those that hate OC like you and of course make liberals heads spin! What could be better!:rofl:
I put your only valid points in bold.

Oh wait. I forgot about deterrence. That's why cops never get attacked, because their OC'd firearms deterred the criminals...wait...nevermind.

I don't hate OC. I simply believe that in the vast majority of situations it isn't prudent. I do hate OC "activists" though!
I OC for comfort. Pure and simple, no other reason.

I also have a 32" waist, so CC is not easy for me without wearing slouchy clothing.

I only OC on private land, though. CC is preferred just because I want my sidearm to be my business, and mine alone.
What gun are you carrying that you have trouble concealing without oversized clothing? You're doing something wrong. I have a 32" waist also and I can carry a CZ 75 P-01 in a CBST with a white undershirt and khaki shorts and I have never had an issue with printing. The right holster and a good gun belt make a world of difference. It's more comfortable for me to carry my CZ in a CBST than it is to carry my little PPK in a High Noon Split Decision.

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 18:15

if you have a right, you better not exercise it, or it will be taken away. :rofl:
That's clearly what I said!:upeyes:

My point was that all of these "in your face" OC activists do more harm than good for gun owners. I don't mean all OCers or all gun rights proponents. Specifically, the OC "activists"

Nice strawman though!

You have a right to OC. Many do so prudently. However, these jacka**es are going around making spectacles of themselves exercising their rights in ridiculous manners and they won't be happy until people get tired of their BS and change the laws. Then even those who OC prudently won't even be permitted to do so anymore. If these people repulse even gun owners, what effect do you think they have on the fence sitters and anyone else with half a brain?

NMG26

06-29-2011, 18:16

Hotdamn! 1 recorded gun grab from an OC'er with no situational awareness, and probably zero training. Not exactly proving your point. One time, dang. I think my odds of winning the jackpot lottery 3 times in one day are better than a gun grab OCing in my entire lifetime. :faint:

See if you can find me an article where average joe citizen who was OCing was shot/killed first because they were open carrying. :yawn:

There was one here in Albuquerque that made that news this year.

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S1982974.shtml

Mister_Beefy

06-29-2011, 18:44

That's clearly what I said!:upeyes:

My point was that all of these "in your face" OC activists do more harm than good for gun owners. I don't mean all OCers or all gun rights proponents. Specifically, the OC "activists"

Nice strawman though!

You have a right to OC. Many do so prudently. However, these jacka**es are going around making spectacles of themselves exercising their rights in ridiculous manners and they won't be happy until people get tired of their BS and change the laws. Then even those who OC prudently won't even be permitted to do so anymore. If these people repulse even gun owners, what effect do you think they have on the fence sitters and anyone else with half a brain?

and all the brouhaha is solely the fault of those who open carry.

if they would just OC prudently there would be no brouhaha!

it's their own fault.

(reread the above, replacing brouhaha with 'rape', those who open carry with 'women' and OC prudently with 'not go out in public'.)

and remember... the police and their reactions have no bearing on anything that happens in these situations.

everything is the fault of those exercising their rights and not breaking the law, always.

eb31

06-29-2011, 19:04

1 thing I see here.

AA#5 is lumping anyone that OC's into one group. Pretty small minded. Aside from the arrogant tone of his posts..that's a whole other issue.

OD Green gets it. There are those of us who simply choose whichever way suits any of our specific daily needs....and then you have those "morons" who OC and walk around video taping every step they take because they are TRYING to have run ins with LE or sheeple.

Not everyone who OC's is a momma's basement dwelling choad.

DaneA

06-29-2011, 19:12

Because I want to be like this guy when I grow up:
http://lonelymachines.org/images/dark_helmet.jpg

OD Green Glock 19

06-29-2011, 19:14

and all the brouhaha is solely the fault of those who open carry.

if they would just OC prudently there would be no brouhaha!

it's their own fault.

(reread the above, replacing brouhaha with 'rape', those who open carry with 'women' and OC prudently with 'not go out in public'.)

and remember... the police and their reactions have no bearing on anything that happens in these situations.

everything is the fault of those exercising their rights and not breaking the law, always.
Yea yea and there's nothing illegal about pissing into your own frosted flakes instead of using milk, but one is more prudent than the other and leaves a better taste in people's mouths. Could you be more melodramatic?