Rick Warren speaks up on compassion, politics, 'big' churches

When mega-pastor and best-selling author Rick Warren goes into "the writing cave" to do a book, he goes "dark."

No interviews. No disruptions. No public political forums or TV appearances or hot-issue quotes to rile the blogosphere.

But Warren came out of hibernation for a phone and email interview Friday to talk about real hope when things are "really bad," to explain his newest book, his views on pastor-politics, on health care for illegal immigrants and compassion -- and to contest my news story last week about the nation's largest churches.

Warren has no plans to burst back into politically-fired headlines, however. When politicians call him, he says,

I never get involved in policy. Never. But I'll talk to guys (like Barack Obama and Sen. John McCain and a host more) about their family, their stress and stuff like that....

Most people don't realize, I really have no faith in politics. I'm not a politician. If I thought you could change human hearts by laws, I would but I don't. Law is downstream from culture. By the time you make a law about something, you're reacting, not acting. I'd rather shape the culture.

This has always been Warren's stance, however it hasn't kept him out of hot water. Friday, he took a moment to clarify some of last winter's headline moments.

In December's interview with Steven Waldman of Beliefnet, did he really mean to equate gay marriage with pedophilia and incest? No, he says, he simply blew the question, and the followup, too. He has no such views of gay couples, he just wants to reserve the word "marriage" for the Biblical one-man-one-woman model.

Did he really campaign against gay marriage during the lead up to the Proposition 8 vote that overturned its legalization in California? That would depend, evidently on how you define "campaign." He preached against it to his congregation, but in Warren's opinion that's not campaigning, that's just a pastor sharing Scripture with his flock, even if his comments went worldwide on line.

(This professed lack of awareness of the Internet's impact seems odd for someone who also boasts of 38,000 Twitter followers and 1,000 new ones a month).

I asked about today's hot topic, health care reform, and whether illegal immigrants could or should get government subsidized insurance coverage. Warren says, as a Christian, he must care about people who need care. He's just not sure it's the government's job to do it.

I get hit a lot from different sides. I don't fit. My primary allegiance is to a kingdom not of this world. I happen to agree with many of the liberal emphasis on compassion, justice and equality. I just disagree that it's the government's role to provide everything.

The role of the church and the government are fundamentally different. The church must always show compassion, always. In Psalm 72, Solomon prays for power and fame but he says the purpose of influence is to speak up for others and one is the immigrant. He doesn't delineate between legal and illegal.

I'm supposed to help people. A good Samaritan doesn't stop and ask the injured person. 'Are you legal or illegal?'

Warren will have his first major book, The Hope You Need, (in stores Nov. 17) since the 7-year-old stunner The Purpose-Driven Life, a simplified handbook to the Bible.

The idea for the book, dissecting the Lord's Prayer, came when he gave the invocation at Obama's inaugration. As he led the prayer, he heard the murmur of countless thousands on the Capitol steps praying along.

In my research, it had never been prayed at an inauguration. And I deeply believe it's a prayer with the answer to all our basic needs and concerns. Loneliness. Guilt. Resentment. Worry. Fear. Meaning. Purpose. Hope... If there were something more important, Jesus would have put that in there, too.

I see more people in more pain today than at any time in the 30 years I've been a pastor. I've taught this prayer many times but never have people needed it more. You're looking at 10% to 12% of California out of work. In Michigan it's 15%. I see white collar folks coming to our Food Pantry. People are in real need of encouragement."

West says optimism is pretending things are better than they really are. Hope doesn't deny reality. Hope says, 'Yep. It's bad, it's really bad now, but there is a vision for the future.' Hope is theological. Optimism is psychological. It's pretending. Hope is real.

In a follow up note to our conversation. Warren jumped all over my story last week on the nation's largest churches. Outreach magazine currently lists Saddleback Community Church at No. 6 on the top 100 churches, based on weekend worship totals tallied by LifeWay Research.

Warren doesn't like the way "largest" is defined. To him, Saddleback's 22,418 weekend worship attendance total is ...

...one of the least important factors in judging church vitality. As we frequently say around here, 'A crowd is not a church!' The church is meant to be so much more than just filling seats for attendance.

When the story came out, Warren called on staff for the latest Bible study and small group statistics. The Saddleback tally: 4,647 small groups, including 38,530 individuals meeting for Bible study last week in 138 California cities. Says Warren:

This is a real strength. If I were to drop dead right now, Saddleback would keep growing because it is decentralized around 4,500 cells instead of centralized around a weekend preacher.

And, as aways, Warren is a font of statistics, big ones. Warren by the numbers:

--Saddleback has baptized over 27,000 adult converts, including 2,000 this year, and one day he says he personally spent five hours in the baptismal pool bringing more than 800 people into the church.

-- His plan is to make Saddleback...

The first local church in Christian history to send members as missionaries to literally every nation.... We have 58 nations left to go to and already have the 2,000 more who've volunteered to go to those before the end of 2010.

-- He's trained nearly half a million pastors in 162 countries.

Imagine if each buys two copies of Warren's new book and so do all his 38,000 Twitter followers. Small wonder publisher Zondervan's first press run starts at a million.

DO YOU THINK... Warren has gotten an unfair shake in the media? That his good works haven't gotten their due? Will this new book be the book you need?

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About Cathy Lynn Grossman

Cathy Lynn Grossman is too fidgety to meditate. But talking about visions and values, faith and ethics lights her up. Join in at Faith & Reason. More about Cathy.