As most of you know, I have been visiting India quite a bit this past year. I thought it would be nice to meet some foreigners in Mumbai who may share the same anxieties of being away from home.

So, I searched on Google, and found BombayExpats group on Yahoo!s User Group product, and thought it would be great to meet its members. However, to my surprise, there was a list of questions that I was asked before being accepted.

At first, I thought it was because it was meant for people who moved to India from outside. But after trading a few messages with the groups creator, Karilyn Owen, I noticed that I was having to explain a lot more about myself simply because I was of Indian origin.

After a few more emails, Karilyn explained that locals Indians were not permitted in the group because they all harass white women. I was disgusted by this comment. This is completely unacceptable, and this felt worse because it was being done against Indians in India. I strongly encourage you to read the following emails that Karilyn and I traded, and you will definitely see how insulting her comments were. Im positive all of you will share my disbelief.

In the spirit of the Honorable Mahatma Gandhi, a group of my friends and I have decided to fight these beliefs and practices by forming a global non-violent Internet campaign for the end of racism against Indians in India.

Specifically we petition for the following actions:

1) Yahoo! as well as other web search, hosting, and/or content companies ban Karilyn Owen's BombayExpat group as well as other user groups that Karilyn Owen is part of or runs from their site(s). In addition, such companies should not tolerate any form of racism against any particular ethnic group, and should immediately remove any groups or content depicting such expressions, or face legal action.

2) Any NGO that Karilyn Owen is employed by or volunteers for in India or outside should immediately discharge her from her duties. No NGO should promote racism by employing or allowing such persons to volunteer.

3) The Government of India should revoke Karilyn Owen's Indian VISA and deport her from the country. Having such people around simply means the Indian government tolerates racism against people of Indian origin.

Please support this petition by signing it.

Thank you,

Sandeep

START OF LETTER CHAIN: PLEASE READ!!!

--- Yahoo! Groups Notification

wrote:

Hello,

The following person would like to join thebombayexpats group:Email address: sandeepweb2004

Comment from user:>Hi all- I'm from Los Angeles and work as a>software engineer. Just> wanted to meet more people who are new to Mumbai> as well. --Sandeep

This membership request requires your approvalbecause the bombayexpats group is restricted, which means youmust approve each new member.

--- Sandeep V wrote:

Hi Karilyn-Wow, you guys are fast. Here's a couple of quickanswers...how long have you been in Mumbai for?

>karilyn owen wrote:>Hi Sandeep,

>Can you tell us more about yourself?What would you like to know? 30, Single, enjoygoing out to Indigo...

>Where were you born/raised?Los Angeles> How long have you been in Mumbai?Commuting between LA and Mumbai for a year now. Wished I heard aboutthis group before

> How long will you be in Mumbai?A long time... :)>What brought you here?Started a software companyin Mumbai

>What area do you live in?Hilton Towers -- flat is being renovated in Pedar Road

> If you are of Indian origin,Yup> Have you been to Mumbai before? India?Yup> Do you have family here?Yup,> Do you speak any Indian languages?Hindi>>What are your expectations from joining this group?I really would like to just meet more people who aregoing through the same issues as me...moving toIndia is really though...I'm sure you would agree

>Also, how did you hear of the group?Google> Thanks,> BombayExpats>

karilyn owen wrote:Hi Sandeep,

I'm not sure how useful you will find this groupas you are of Indian origin, speak Hindi AND havefamily here! This group really is aimed at people whohave no history, knowledge or connection to India and needhelp with mundane things as well as finding similarfunctions as they had back "home".

It is NOT a place to network for business or tomeet "white" women. We have had quite a problem withthis in the past, hence the need to restrict the"admission" process. Initially we allowed allnewbies to Mumbai on the list, but have had such problemsthat now we only accept foreign passport holders andpeople of Indian origin who are born and raised for theirentire lives outside of India. (I know this sounds a bit restrictive,but like I said we have had many problems with this in the past.And its made life uncomfortable for people who havegiven out their phone numbers on the list, addresses,etc and have had to change their numbers due toharrassment. And since its an online group I onlyhave my intial impressions to go off of.)

Do you really feel that you need help withfiguring Mumbai out? I mean you really are at quite anadvantage compared to the rest of us, but if youwant to join, I will accept you.

btw, where in LA were you raised? I'm from texasoriginally but lived my adult life in SF. I havebeen in Mumbai for 3 years now with my partner who hasbeen here for 5.

Karilyn / BombayExpats

--- Sandeep V wrote:

Hey Karilyn,

Everyone seems to have the impression that justbecause you are Indian by heritage, it's easy toadjust to life in India. True, while I'm probablymore at an advantage than a person who is notIndian by blood, it's actually not an easy ride moving toMumbai because my life was exactly like yours inthe US.

So to address your concerns, which frankly most ofus from the US would find fairly insulting andracist - no I'm not trying to "hit" on white women... plenty of white women to meet back in the USand yes, I was born and raised in California and holda US passport. Went to UCLA for school, and live inRedondo Beach.Why did you decide on moving to Mumbai?

In any case, if you feel it's better that I don'tjoin, that's fine...I'll just start-up anotheronline group...I'm sure there would be a bunch ofexpats who would like to join.

Take care,Sandeep

karilyn owen [email protected]> wrote:

wow. you read that email badly. just when i was
getting a good impression of you. did you not read
the last few sentences where i said that if you want to
join, i will accept you!??! after i had jsut said
that all i have are my "email impressions" to go off
of....
anyhow.... in response to your email.

1st - i didn't mean to suggest that its not also a
transition for you to move to India. It is i would
say a great deal easier for you just by the mere fact
that you SPEAK the language and don't stick out like a
sore thumb everywhere you go!! Of course I do realize the
challenges of being Indian and being "foreign" also
bring. We have MANY indian expats on the list and as
good friends. I was just making you aware of what
this list is about - and what its not about.

sorry that you find it racist that we restrict
membership. but most groups (in my opinion, of any
quality) have requirements/restrictions so as to
keep things on task. I am sure you are not aware, but the
reason this list was started was because my Indian
friends were not able to join any of the existing
expat groups as they require anyone of Indian origin
to be 3rd generation at least. Also, this list was
started to allow men to have a forum for meeting
friends, finding information, etc as all of the
other expat groups in existence are for women only. I do
try to be as inclusive as possible, but also in
providing a "safe" place where people feel comfortable meeting
strangers on their own, giving out their phone numbers, etc.

About being racist.. sorry, but that is the life we
(white foreigners) lead in India. We are judged
constantly by the way we look and are treated
accordingly. If you are white you must be rich. If
you are white you must be easy. etc etc etc. This is
somethign that most Indians are not fully aware of,
but spend a day walking around with me and you will
hear and see plenty of "racist" behavior/speech.

Yes, perhaps you have access to plenty of "white"
women, but unfortunately many indian males before
you have joined this list for that purpose and ruined it
for all.

Furthermore, I never insinuated that YOU were trying
to hit on women, i only explained that this has
happened in the past and the need for finding out
more information from all requestees prior to accepting
their request and the need for restricting membership.

Also, there is another group that might be
interesting to you. It is called Foreign Youth Club. It was
created by an expat from Singapore who wanted to
create a group of people who would go out to clubs,
drinks, etc. You can search online to find it. It is
open to anyone who is new to Mumbai - many of our
members also participate in it. They say its for 30
yr old an below, but i think anyone who is interested
in partying is free to participate!

Hope you find the expat group beneficial in helping
you meet friends and get settled. Good luck with your business and future apt.

Karilyn

--- Sandeep V [email protected]> wrote:

okay...i really don't have time for this, but i'd
say a couple of quick things...seems like you are
very distressed about being around local Indians.
If this is the case, you should really leave the
country and return home, no one is twisting your
arms to stick around.

and regarding impressions -- I really don't have a
favorable impression of your group after trading
emails with you. and if the rest of your group
thinks like you, it's really unfortunate for India.

and finally, it's people like you who fuel Indian
resentment towards foreigners and foreign investors.
you should really be aware of the implications of
your comments when you interact with others as you
are someone who represents foreigners on the
Internet. It's really comments from people like you
that cause all those riots against foreigners and
foreign establishments in India.

I don't think you are actually reading my emails.
I have not suggested anywhere under any terms that I
do not like locals or being in India. Perhaps you
misread truth of my experiences as being racist, or
hating indians. I was sexually abused within an hour
of my first arrival in India 3 years ago. I could have
walked right back in the airport and hated this
country, but I did not. I continued to see that as a
one off experience. But it does continue to happen.
but i don't stop doing things or going to places
because of this. nor do i hate india. i see it for
what it is. a developing country with a lot of
positive points and also a lot of negative points.

I am here on my choice. I work for pennies per day
even with a masters degree, live like the locals and
love it. i am not here to make money off of India or
Indians. I am here to help the poorest of the poor -
those who most of India pretend do not exist.

I am here just like you, because I choose to be. But
you need to recognize that foreign women are treated
quite badly sometimes. We are seen as sex objects,
whether you want to agree or not. We are treated
differently because we are white - sometimes it helps
us get what we want but often it is uncomfortable and
inappropriate.

So yes, if you are offended by people discussing the
true realities of this country, working to change
those realities, then this list is not for you. most
people on it work for non profit organizations and see
India for what it is - the bad and the good.

Sorry that you were unable to read what I actually was
writing in the previous emails.
As Big Tex says - good bye and good luck.
k

Karilyn-

First, it was very unfortunate what happened to you when you first arrived in India.

However, suggesting that Indian born males harass white women within your organization and is the basis for why they are allowed in your user group is completely outrageous. You are promoting racial discrimination to the fullest extent.

Do you honestly believe that being a male foreigner immediately suggests that such a person will act appropriately with women in your group? Have you ever visited a Mumbai night club and seen how sometimes even a "noble" foreigner can be spotted harassing an Indian woman. Does this mean that Indian nightclubs should ban all foreigners from entering?

I'm reminded of signs posted at entrances to public buildings in British India: DOGS AND INDIANS NOT ALLOWED. In the age of the Internet, physical spaces have become virtual ones, like the user group on Yahoo! that you have been using. And what you are doing in essence is equivalent to posting those horrific signs.

Your group's policy segments an entire population based on race and ethnicity from participating in a public user group because of a possible action by one. This is a complete outrage to anyone, whether they are Indian or not, because, we as a society, both in the US as well as globally, have worked so hard to eliminate racial prejudices. In this sense, there is really no difference between your user group and those that practiced black segregation, South Apartheid, or even Nazism. If there were a difference, it is simply that you are hosting your disgusting practices and briefs virtually on the Internet.

While it is quite noble that you in your view are helping the poor, it does not give you any right to racially discriminate against any race or ethnicity. You are a guest in India, do not disrespect 1 billion people by thinking that it's entire male population is out to harass white women.

Your conduct and thoughts are totally unacceptable in today's global society. It's sentiments expressed by people like you that make it very difficult for foreign investment and globalization to take place in India because it instills fears of a colonial India once again. It is a known fact that a lack of foreign investment in India hurts everyone in India, poor or rich, and it derides the very mission that your NGO has sent you to India for, to improve India's society.

In the spirit of the Honorable Mahatma Gandhi, a group of my friends and I have decided to fight you as well as others that share your beliefs and practices by forming a global non-violent Internet campaign for the end of racism against Indians in India.

Supporters may support our cause by visiting:
http://www.petitiononline.com/create_petition.html
and petition for the following actions:

1) Yahoo! as well as other web search, hosting, and/or content companies ban Karilyn Owen's BombayExpat group as well as other user groups that Karilyn Owen is part of or runs from their site(s). In addition, such companies should not tolerate any form of racism against any particular ethnic group, and should immediately remove any groups or content depicting such expressions, or face legal action.

2) Any NGO that Karilyn Owen is employed by or volunteers for in India or outside should immediately discharge her from her duties. No NGO should promote racism by employing or allowing such persons to volunteer.

3) The Government of India should revoke Karilyn Owen's Indian VISA and deport her from the country. Having such people around simply means the Indian government tolerates racism against people of Indian origin.

Sandeep

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