Yes, BM cameras have the ability to add user data to file ID, but none of the BM recorders have had this feature, including the Hyperdecks. So, not sure this is a feature that can be added in a firmware update?Cheers

Theory : The dumping of URSA v1PL happened about the same time this patent was filed (July-August 2017) I think the first steep URSA sale was in July 2017. B&H no longer have URSA v1 or v2s, Adorama have them in stock and as at the time of typing this, BM amazon page has 1 left in stock. So... It's safe to assume they are in limited quantity. Manufacturing is focused on UMPro (for now). In July, Grant says development is ongoing for the 4.6K turret (welcome news) and extends a special price to original owners of the URSAs - Showing they appreciate their customers. However, they are developing a new modular camera system. With potentially multiple sensors. 3D application... VR/AR.... Something like a movable sensor plane. Which would mean it can take just about any lens on the planet. Can it be they will try put the latest sensor into the new modular system...and retro fit it to work with the URSA turret or skip the 4.6 turret all together? That is the question. This patent shows a new modular design. Which means the "old" URSA bodies might not benefit from this new design. The patent describes say a sensor module, which initially gave me the impression its the only part needed for the URSA.... but then why offer steeply discounted prices on the URSA bodies? (No complain there) But after seeing this new camera in development, even if its 2 years out, URSA is looking less and less likely to getting the 4.6K sensor, and less likely getting this new sensor.

I am certain that my assumptions are gravely inaccurate, however, the dots are getting closer and closer.

true... this is probably something which will be announced 2 years from now. Looking at when they filed the micro cinema cam, and when it was announced.... a couple of months apart. What I am getting at is, will this new sensor be built to fit the URSA?

“It is our next-generation camera system, a ground-up development initiative,” said Sony marketing manager Peter Crithary of the new camera, whose development was first announced last spring at Cine Gear Expo. “We worked in close collaboration with film industry professionals. We also considered the longer-term strategy by designing a user interchangeable sensor that is as quick and simple to swap as removing four screws, and can accommodate different shooting scenarios as the need arises.”

While those of us are still hoping for the 4.6K Turret to come, can BMD at least give the URSA 4K v1 and v2 a chance with a 4.x firmware upgrade that at the very least have 4.x features that does not utilize specific UM/UMP functions? I will be happy if they can add1. LUT support2. False Color and other scope functionalities on the built-in monitor3. Additional codecs and resolution (like 2.5K BMD CC). I miss the Cinema Camera's 2.5K res.Please BMD. Help us keep our investments alive a bit longer or while we await for the 4.6K Turret.

Ellory Yu wrote:While those of us are still hoping for the 4.6K Turret to come, can BMD at least give the URSA 4K v1 and v2 a chance with a 4.x firmware upgrade that at the very least have 4.x features that does not utilize specific UM/UMP functions? I will be happy if they can add1. LUT support2. False Color and other scope functionalities on the built-in monitor3. Additional codecs and resolution (like 2.5K BMD CC). I miss the Cinema Camera's 2.5K res.Please BMD. Help us keep our investments alive a bit longer or while we await for the 4.6K Turret.

I would be satisfied to have the BM4.6K non-global shutter sensor as an optional turret without the bells and whistles so long as I can refit the 4K global sensor turret when global function is needed.

However the data handling of the original big URSA may be specific to the 4K sensor only and require additional processing capability outside of the turret.

If global or even just normal rolling shutter can only be available to 30P in a 4.6K sensor turret, then I can live with that too although I suspect other users may cry in their cups.

With the more time that passes, the likelyhood of any new sensor and its ancilliary circuitry remaining compatable with the generation of electronics in the big URSA body may become less and less to the point of being eventually impossible.

It may be that BM might be playing a waiting game until the generally accepted seven year product support threshold expires. The population of big URSA cams supplanted by the loyalty upgrade scheme may have by then become high enough to eliminate most of the holdouts.

The few remaining big URSA cameras may by then be comprised of secondhand post-upgrade resold units whose new owners will have to suck it up because they will rightly be owed no loyalty upgrade.

That will be fine and legal. The few remaining big URSA original owners might then be told barlees. You left it too late.

Like the SI2K which remains a good but largely unloved system these days, the big URSA may become a derilect unsupported canoe, favoured only by the holdouts like me.

It is rather a pity because it is probably the best crew-friendly production option out there.

robert Hart wrote:I would be satisfied to have the BM4.6K non-global shutter sensor as an optional turret without the bells and whistles so long as I can refit the 4K global sensor turret when global function is needed.

However the data handling of the original big URSA may be specific to the 4K sensor only and require additional processing capability outside of the turret.

If global or even just normal rolling shutter can only be available to 30P in a 4.6K sensor turret, then I can live with that too although I suspect other users may cry in their cups.

With the more time that passes, the likelyhood of any new sensor and its ancilliary circuitry remaining compatable with the generation of electronics in the big URSA body may become less and less to the point of being eventually impossible.

It may be that BM might be playing a waiting game until the generally accepted seven year product support threshold expires. The population of big URSA cams supplanted by the loyalty upgrade scheme may have by then become high enough to eliminate most of the holdouts.

The few remaining big URSA cameras may by then be comprised of secondhand post-upgrade resold units whose new owners will have to suck it up because they will rightly be owed no loyalty upgrade.

That will be fine and legal. The few remaining big URSA original owners might then be told barlees. You left it too late.

Like the SI2K which remains a good but largely unloved system these days, the big URSA may become a derilect unsupported canoe, favoured only by the holdouts like me.

It is rather a pity because it is probably the best crew-friendly production option out there.

The Ursa 4K to Ursa Mini Pro program was implemented for us as a “we know you’ve been waiting for the turret” as a token of appreciation we’ll give you this discount until we complete the turret. They’ve said to us time and again they’re working on it..they also said when they have something they will let us know. Read grant’s message above if you haven’t already. Those written words are the ones I will hold onto instead of speculation.

robert Hart wrote:I would be satisfied to have the BM4.6K non-global shutter sensor as an optional turret without the bells and whistles so long as I can refit the 4K global sensor turret when global function is needed.

However the data handling of the original big URSA may be specific to the 4K sensor only and require additional processing capability outside of the turret.

If global or even just normal rolling shutter can only be available to 30P in a 4.6K sensor turret, then I can live with that too although I suspect other users may cry in their cups.

With the more time that passes, the likelyhood of any new sensor and its ancilliary circuitry remaining compatable with the generation of electronics in the big URSA body may become less and less to the point of being eventually impossible.

It may be that BM might be playing a waiting game until the generally accepted seven year product support threshold expires. The population of big URSA cams supplanted by the loyalty upgrade scheme may have by then become high enough to eliminate most of the holdouts.

The few remaining big URSA cameras may by then be comprised of secondhand post-upgrade resold units whose new owners will have to suck it up because they will rightly be owed no loyalty upgrade.

That will be fine and legal. The few remaining big URSA original owners might then be told barlees. You left it too late.

Like the SI2K which remains a good but largely unloved system these days, the big URSA may become a derilect unsupported canoe, favoured only by the holdouts like me.

It is rather a pity because it is probably the best crew-friendly production option out there.

If someone bought the URSA today, new or used, they are still purchasing a camera that is documented as being an upgradable sensor camera. They are still buying a camera that had the 4.6 turret announced as ready in 2015 and announced several months ago as still being developed to be delivered. I agree with you on the seven year wait which is why I'm not waiting that long. BM will try to drag this out seven years or longer.

I also agree the longer we wait the less likely it becomes feasible the turret will happen. The turret is not a priority with BMD. If it was priority number one it would already be on the market OR they would take the loss and say they made a mistake and it's not going to happen.

Im still personally baffled that a company would announce a product and give a shipping date when they didn't have a working model. That doesn't make any sense to me. It's like going in to do a heart transplant and not having a heart or a surgeon or instruments and thinking "It'll work out".

Anyone who has bought a used big URSA recently has to be a bit naive if they have not researched the camera and become aware of the issue. I know there are innocents and beginners but due diligence is due diligence.

I think there are some realities that big URSA owners may have to confront sooner or later. That reality is that nothing comes from nothing.

To remain in the R and D game at all, BM has to sell product to generate the revenue to pay people to come to work each day, pay their suppliers and at the end of it all, make the shareholders satisfied.

If that means priority towards the URSA Mini camera family and the other product lines, then that is what has to happen. In a retail space, loss leader marketing has to be sustained by other sales or it is game over for an enterprise. No one can really know if the big URSA gained enough customer sales and loyalty to be commercially viable. BM would be unwise to provide the answer.

The industry players who SI/P+S Technik, RED and subsequently BM have disrupted, have after some inertia, themselves adapted. They may be still playing the crippleware game but there is no longer a reputed if not actual informal cartel holding innovation back.

BM is in a seriously competitive environment in which progressing the big URSA may turn out to be an unaffordable luxury. If a major player like ARRI can find itself at risk of being painted into a corner by suppliers of its sensors witholding service, BM is unlikely to be in a more powerful place with its suppliers.

We shall just have to be patient, wait and see and be prepared if the big URSA's upgrade problems cannot be solved in the next three or so years before realistic customary product support expectation runs out of time.

If it comes to that, it will comprehensively suck, but that's life in the real world.

How about BM release 4.6K v1 with current limits as on the UM and UMPro. So no GS, max 2160p60, 1080p120, 6:5 Anamorphic etc. When and/or if they get 4.6K v2 to work, then those who need the higher framerates and GS can opt to buy. Kind of like 4kv1 and v2. At one point, you choose which sensor. Same as UM4K and UM4.6K. Personally, I am happy with the current UM specs. More would be great, but how many times have I shot above 60 on the UM? Maybe 3 times in the 18 or so months. How many times have I done crazy whip pans to need GS? Not shooting anything like that....yet. Release the turret

For a product that has probably been delayed or shelved because of lack of commercial interest, this thread has had more views than pretty much anything else on this forum with the exception of the faqs. 80 000 + views and counting!!!

Patrick Acum wrote:For a product that has probably been delayed or shelved because of lack of commercial interest, this thread has had more views than pretty much anything else on this forum with the exception of the faqs. 80 000 + views and counting!!!

I don't know why the flagship of bmd camera Ursa4 K discontinued or eol!!!,there is no camera in the world with liquid cooled sensor technology and 3 station camera!,picture quality is excellent,in par with arri Alexa,codec is better than red epic dragon,cinema dng raw is having least compression when compared to red epic dragon!;solid build,in India more than seven feature film shot on Ursa4K,now iam also shooting a feature film on this,still lot of people including me are looking for a upgrade to the Ursa4K by a 4.6 K and 15+ dynamic range by replacing the turret by a new turret(as promised by black majic design)

Asok Kumar wrote:I don't know why the flagship of bmd camera Ursa4 K discontinued or eol!!!,there is no camera in the world with liquid cooled sensor technology and 3 station camera!,picture quality is excellent,in par with arri Alexa,codec is better than red epic dragon,cinema dng raw is having least compression when compared to red epic dragon!;solid build,in India more than seven feature film shot on Ursa4K,now iam also shooting a feature film on this,still lot of people including me are looking for a upgrade to the Ursa4K by a 4.6 K and 15+ dynamic range by replacing the turret by a new turret(as promised by black majic design)

Two ways to retain market share one is to make better products at a lower cost the second is to prevent offending products from entering the marketplace. We all know BM could produce turrets if they wanted to but maybe the competition has put a spell on BM to prevent them from releasing the turrets. The Death Star has to be destroyed.

Brian Gulliver wrote:Two ways to retain market share one is to make better products at a lower cost the second is to prevent offending products from entering the marketplace. We all know BM could produce turrets if they wanted to but maybe the imperial emperor at Arri, Red etc. have put a spell on BM to prevent them from releasing the turrets. The death star has to be destroyed.

It's far more likely that BMD is having trouble getting them to work the way that it wants to, since it's BMD's first attempt at a sensor design.

DOES anybody knows about the optical quality of the sony cinalta scl pl6 lens? Is it optically better than cp2/CP3 lens? In par with ultra prime lens? Iam planning to buy it for shooting my feature film

Asok Kumar wrote:DOES anybody knows about the optical quality of the sony cinalta scl pl6 lens? Is it optically better than cp2/CP3 lens? In par with ultra prime lens? Iam planning to buy it for shooting my feature film

There's quite a bit of discussion here, on BMCUser and REDUser devoted to discussing these lenses.

There's also some tests available comparing these lenses to others, and looking at flare, breathing etc.

But I can say with absolute certainty, as an owner of the six lens set, that these lenses are superb. The build quality is excellent, the optics are amazing (sharp across the frame, colour matching, beautiful bokeh, no breathing, nice flare characteristics, minimal CA), genuinely fast T2, and with matching gear positions and front diameters. Every lens is identical in size apart from the 135mm which is longer. They are simply the best value cine lenses on the market.

Only draw backs - 1. They are heavy but comparable to many, including Cooke and Ultra Primes in this regard2. You have to buy the full set of six.

Why? It's a simple question. Hardly anyone uses Black Magic cameras in Hollywood either, does that make the Black Magic cameras not good?

Clearly the answer is no...

The CineAlta lenses are basically Minolta lenses in cinema housings and don't have breathing problems. That plus a review or two should be enough. (Hint: the reviews I've seen have been very positive.)

Asok Kumar wrote:DOES anybody knows about the optical quality of the sony cinalta scl pl6 lens? Is it optically better than cp2/CP3 lens? In par with ultra prime lens? Iam planning to buy it for shooting my feature film

There's quite a bit of discussion here, on BMCUser and REDUser devoted to discussing these lenses.

There's also some tests available comparing these lenses to others, and looking at flare, breathing etc.

But I can say with absolute certainty, as an owner of the six lens set, that these lenses are superb. The build quality is excellent, the optics are amazing (sharp across the frame, colour matching, beautiful bokeh, no breathing, nice flare characteristics, minimal CA), genuinely fast T2, and with matching gear positions and front diameters. Every lens is identical in size apart from the 135mm which is longer. They are simply the best value cine lenses on the market.

Only draw backs - 1. They are heavy but comparable to many, including Cooke and Ultra Primes in this regard2. You have to buy the full set of six.