"The 33"-Road Bike RacingWe set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Caisse d'Epargne says they're going with two leaders (just as T-Mobile used to do with Ullrich toward the end), Pereiro and Valverde at this year's TDF. I think it's a huge mistake as you lose chances to push one guy into the lead since you fear using up the other guy and then having the first falter, but I don't have evidence of this other than what I observed from t-mobile. Does anyone know of any teams that won the TDF doing this?

I'd say Caisse d'Epargne and Pereiro both know he doesn't really have a chance of repeating last year's performance. It's just PR to brag about how strong their team is. If Valverde does blow up, I could see them riding for Karpets before Pereiro.

I'd say Caisse d'Epargne and Pereiro both know he doesn't really have a chance of repeating last year's performance. It's just PR to brag about how strong their team is. If Valverde does blow up, I could see them riding for Karpets before Pereiro.

I think you're right. But, none of the other teams are going to let Pereiro get away again. He'll be a marked man, and Caisse d/Epargne can use that to their advantage. Any break he's in will be shut down. Takes pressure off Valverde, and the rest of the team.

Caisse d'Epargne says they're going with two leaders (just as T-Mobile used to do with Ullrich toward the end), Pereiro and Valverde at this year's TDF. I think it's a huge mistake as you lose chances to push one guy into the lead since you fear using up the other guy and then having the first falter, but I don't have evidence of this other than what I observed from t-mobile. Does anyone know of any teams that won the TDF doing this?

Pereiro is a team leader in name only. He was the beneficiary of some very bad tactics by other teams in the TDF last year, and is only being given an honorary nod as team leader in recognition of his 2nd or 1st or whatever it was. The most recent dual team leadership was probably Gerolsteiner with Leipheimer and Totschnig, who both finished top ten. The next year they announced a dual team leadership in the Tour, but Totschnig came into the Tour sick, so it never really worked out. Dual team leadership can be a very effective tactic if you have two riders who are a real threat. Teams are required to watch and follow both riders, which forces them to spread their resources thinner.

I think it's better to have one GC man so the team all works together for one rider instead of splitting the team as happened in '86 with Hinault/Lemond. Having Ullrich, Kloden, and Vinokourov on the same team didn't help them; they all sat around waiting for each other to go.

Not having a definite GC rider didn't help Disco last year; when nobody seemed to do well in the Pyrenees the team just drifted.

The other weird thing is Kloden actually should be the favorite to win the whole thing. he's the only one to place on the podium twice (2nd and third) and he even placed 2nd when all the drug users were still there. But for some reason he doesn't seem to want to be a leader. When he went to Astana, everyone originally thought it was for more money but it turns out he was offered the same money AND T-Mobile was also offering to make him the outright team leader. So the question is, did he leave t-mobile because he was afraid of having the responsibility of being the leader or because of their new anti-doping plan?

The other weird thing is Kloden actually should be the favorite to win the whole thing. he's the only one to place on the podium twice (2nd and third) and he even placed 2nd when all the drug users were still there. But for some reason he doesn't seem to want to be a leader. When he went to Astana, everyone originally thought it was for more money but it turns out he was offered the same money AND T-Mobile was also offering to make him the outright team leader. So the question is, did he leave t-mobile because he was afraid of having the responsibility of being the leader or because of their new anti-doping plan?

T-Mobile was more serious about cracking down on doping than Astana (my view). Also, Astana exists primarily because Vinokourov had connections with the wealthy Khazak who is now their sponsor - so him being the team leader is rather a given. I'd be completely talking out my butt to say this had anything to do with Kloden's riding with Astana (it could just have been that he and Godefroot are pals), but for those of us who aren't insiders, it does cause some pondering.