From what I've been told, Weihenstephan has had a good relationship with Sierra Nevada for a while.
I really like the bottle art. Hopefully they will be readily available. For some reason the Pils and the Kristall Weizenbock only made it to a handful of stores out my way.

Recently got to try a new local Pilsner from a brewery I didn't know existed until last week, and is pretty close to home: Prairie Krafts. Place brews mostly top-fermented styles, but they have a few German-style bottom-fermented beers. The Pilsner isn't quite Nouveau and isn't quite traditional; modern Nobel Hops without being overdone, and crackery malt that holds up well. Will be looking for other styles from them.

Also found some more Lakefront Maibock closer than a Wisconsin run -- a very delicious take on the style these days. And Capital's Dark Doppelbock from their one month release back in November -- which is holding up terrifically well. This Doppel is as good as most imports and better than some others.

Recently got to try a new local Pilsner from a brewery I didn't know existed until last week, and is pretty close to home: Prairie Krafts. Place brews mostly top-fermented styles, but they have a few German-style bottom-fermented beers. The Pilsner isn't quite Nouveau and isn't quite traditional; modern Nobel Hops without being overdone, and crackery malt that holds up well. Will be looking for other styles from them.

Also found some more Lakefront Maibock closer than a Wisconsin run -- a very delicious take on the style these days. And Capital's Dark Doppelbock from their one month release back in November -- which is holding up terrifically well. This Doppel is as good as most imports and better than some others.

Yes, I looked Saphir up, and the parent hops were just numbers from the Hüll breeding stock.

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My info is from BSG Craft Brewing, so I have no solid confirmation on their accuracy, but they report Saphir was developed to have Noble hop characters and good cultivation properties. Probably can't pinpoint Noble heritage, but they were trying to cultivate something similar.

My info is from BSG Craft Brewing, so I have no solid confirmation on their accuracy, but they report Saphir was developed to have Noble hop characters and good cultivation properties. Probably can't pinpoint Noble heritage, but they were trying to cultivate something similar.

And the German male hop 75/5/3?

As said, not exactly "new," but still of newer Noble lineage.

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Agranomics comes first is hop breeding. The farmer has to make money growing the hop variety. Many of these were developed to give an alternative to HM, which is susceptible to wilt.

The ones like Mandarina Bavaria, Hüll Melon, and Hallertau Blanc were developed to compete with the new fruity American hops. The Germans saw what was going on in the US, and wanted part of that market.

The ones like Mandarina Bavaria, Hüll Melon, and Hallertau Blanc were developed to compete with the new fruity American hops. The Germans saw what was going on in the US, and wanted part of that market.

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Right -- these are the ones that tend to stunt my palate (mentioned previously) and what I refer to as the "modern" nobles.

Someone told me they feel Polaris tastes like ice blue hard candies. Now I can't escape that. Luckily it's not too strong. I don't know about Polaris being used in anything German, but it works in saisons. Funkwerks made a single-hop saison with polaris that I really enjoyed.

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Also found some more Lakefront Maibock closer than a Wisconsin run -- a very delicious take on the style these days.

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I saw this at my local store but was hesitant since I had never had anything from Lakefront before. Decided to buy a six-pack based on your recommendation and I am really impressed by the beer. American maibocks can be hit or miss; this one is definitely a hit. So, thanks!

Decided to buy a six-pack based on your recommendation and I am really impressed by the beer.

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FWIW -- I went back and updated my 2016 review, when this beer first came out, and bumped the score up a little. I think they were still tweaking the recipe back then, but now they seem to have it down. I just bought my third six-pack of the Lakefront last week.

I recently managed to get a hold of a bottle of Palor, and quite fresh at that, which is not a matter of course in Germany... It's an (English) Pale Ale brewed with Polaris and Cascade hops. The Polaris hops really seem to take center stage though, with a strong herbal presence that is reminiscent of alpine herbs. I quite enjoyed it for its uniqueness and actually kinda wish more brewers would use Polaris, as I quite like the herbal note. I wrote a full review, but have no idea how to link to it directly.

has anyone seen bottles of "Braupakt" a hefeweizen collaboration of Weihenstephan and Sierra Nevada?

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I found a case of it yesterday in a tiny beer place. The box has a label with the date 14 2 18. It looks like a typical white beer in the glass, cloudy with a tall, very white head. I did not detect any yeast at the end of the pour. Typical, medium mouth feel for a Weihenstephan. I find it to be more bitter and less sweet than Hopfenweisse. A decent beer and good to see experimentation with a wheat.

Next weekend is Springtoberfest at Sierra Nevada in NC. I'm hoping they have it on draft. It's not on now.

So, finally had a chance to try the Braupakt... with all due respect to both breweries that I admire, this collaboration was not necessary. Overly bittered Weissbier is not a good thing, the long lingering aftertaste reminded me of poor American attempts at this style. Will never drink again.

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So, finally had a chance to try the Braupakt... with all due respect to both breweries that I admire, this collaboration was not necessary. Overly bittered Weissbier is not a good thing, the long lingering aftertaste reminded me of poor American attempts at this style. Will never drink again.

Sorry - wanted to like it. Tasted like a pale ale with cara malts fermented with wheat beer yeast. Had dozens of these during the craft beer boom years from craft brewers wanting to also do a wheat beer and it tasted like it. My apologies to all offended but this was a poor execution IMO.

Had dozens of these during the craft beer boom years from craft brewers wanting to also do a wheat beer and it tasted like it.

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Only "wheat" beers I had during the Boom® had no resemblance to a Bavarian Wheat. I find this one really does. I honestly like the way SN & Weihenstephan balanced the Weizen yeast character with Pac Northwest hops without going overboard. I honestly expected what you say you tasted, but was pleasantly surprised.

Ah well, different strokes.

BTW (to all) -- since this beer was brewed in Germany, I put a link to my review over in the Bayernbiere Bought and Drunk thread.

I'd prefer a straight up Weizen, but I enjoy what they did here. Not overly bitter/hoppy, Hefe yeast character smelled great up front. Tasted like a Hefeweizen with a hoppy finish that lingers for a while.

It's well done, but the hoppy finish is unwarranted in my opinion. Just a personal preference. The hops didn't interfere with the banana/clove notes at all. But they still felt slightly out of place, and a TAD too bitter and hoppy.

That being said, looking forward to having my other two bottles I picked up. For no other reason than that I don't get to have a "Weihenstephan" Hefeweizen this fresh very often.

Finally, @steveh, Summerfest is out. Having my first of the season, bottled 3/26. Less than a month old! And damn...

I guess I jumped into this beer expecting something a little different from the usual Hefeweizen -- and I was surprised that it wasn't over-done in the usual "innovative" way -- at least to my palate. I was also surprised at how well the fruitiness of the hops balanced with the Weizen yeast. Just pretty tasty to me.

Now, would I exchange it for a traditional Hefeweizen if that's what I was craving? A definite no there. Still like true Bavarian Hefeweizen better, but I was impressed with the Braupakt.

Finally, @steveh, Summerfest is out. Having my first of the season, bottled 3/26. Less than a month old! And damn...

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Saw it here a week-and-a-half back -- picked some up last Thursday and been enjoying a few over the weekend. As good as it ever was.

I guess I jumped into this beer expecting something a little different from the usual Hefeweizen -- and I was surprised that it wasn't over-done in the usual "innovative" way -- at least to my palate.

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Ha, yes, I sort of contradicted myself there didn't I?

I more or less meant exactly what you wrote above. That it wasn't overdone in the usual "innovative" way.

But I still felt it was a tad too hoppy. The hops lingered a bit too long in the finish, and showed up too quickly. As in, I got the typical Hefeweizen flavors, but those were quickly displaced by bitter and fruity notes. But it was far from an American hoppy wheat beer (for example, Lagunitas Lil' Sumpin'). And well done overall.

But I have only had one bottle, and didn't really take notes, going off of memory. I have two more to try. For what it's worth, I don't recall liking Hopfenweisse in the past.

Braupakt just showed up here today. I'm going in with an open mind, but don't expect miracles. It took me years to warm up to Hopfenweisse and I wasn't a huge fan of their kristall weizenbock. Still, every now and then something like this can be good. New Glarus made some hoppy weizens that I enjoyed. I still wish they'd just send us Tradition instead. It annoys me how few dunkels make it stateside.

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Braupakt just showed up here today. I'm going in with an open mind, but don't expect miracles.

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Chris, my prediction is that you will enjoy drinking Braupakt. This beer tastes more like a traditional Hefeweizen than a 'hopped up' Hefeweizen IMO. Yes, there are aspects of the American aroma hops there but IMO the brewers made judicious use of them so the hop aromas/flavors very much compliment the yeast derived flavors (i.e., banana & clove).