Agree. It goes well beyond the City's comfort level with density. It would probably be a commercial success if allowed however. It will be a while before the culture in Toronto is ready for density like this.

Agree. It goes well beyond the City's comfort level with density. It would probably be a commercial success if allowed however. I don't think the culture in the city is ready for density like this.

It actually goes way beyond my own comfort level. If it included restoration of the Arts and Letters Club and the two neighbouring Victorian commercial buildings on Yonge Street, I might perhaps be more disposed to approve it. As it is, it just sort of overwhelms the street. Since it is obvious that the City would never sanction it as proposed, one has to assume that what the developer really wants in the end is something in the 40 – 50 storey range and this is just a ploy. Kind of like sending in the shock troops before the battle is joined.

__________________Suffering is not good for the soul, unless it teaches you how to stop suffering. That is its purpose. – Seth

It actually goes way beyond my own comfort level. If it included restoration of the Arts and Letters Club and the two neighbouring Victorian commercial buildings on Yonge Street, I might perhaps be more disposed to approve it. As it is, it just sort of overwhelms the street. Since it is obvious that the City would never sanction it as proposed, one has to assume that what the developer really wants in the end is something in the 40 – 50 storey range and this is just a ploy.

Your discomfort with that level of density is probably quite common. There are other people in Toronto who don't understand the appeal of living downtown. They grew up in a time when downtown was for work but one lived in a house with a yard. My dentist is like that.

Toronto is changing so fast and it's normal there are limits to what a population will accept. That said, the younger generation growing up in this boom likely won't have the same reservations about sky high density that others do.

You might be right that the developer wants 50 floors so asked for 80. A tit for tat game often plays out between interest groups and renovating the heritage properties would surely be on the table. That said, something like this will likely have to wait till the next generation takes power in Toronto.

My comfort level with density is higher than most Torontonians but I have my limits as well. I wouldn't want a 700m building downtown. Not now anyway. Maybe in 20-30 years I'll re-assess that.

Your discomfort with that level of density is probably quite common. There are other people in Toronto who don't understand the appeal of living downtown. They grew up in a time when downtown was for work but one lived in a house with a yard. My dentist is like that.

Toronto is changing so fast and it's normal there are limits to what a population will accept. That said, the younger generation growing up in this boom likely won't have the same reservations about sky high density that others do.

You might be right that the developer wants 50 floors so asked for 80. A tit for tat game often plays out between interest groups and renovating the heritage properties would surely be on the table. That said, something like this will likely have to wait till the next generation takes power in Toronto.

My comfort level with density is higher than most Torontonians but I have my limits as well. I wouldn't want a 700m building downtown. Not now anyway. Maybe in 20-30 years I'll re-assess that.

I live right downtown and have absolutely no problem with sky high density at all, at all, but not density at any cost anywhere. It is quite uncharacteristic of me to be against a development but that doesn't preclude me from objecting when I think it is warranted. This whole proposal doesn't pass the smell test. I would have no objection if they were to propose the same building for the north east corner of Yonge & Gerrard, just not on Elm Street.

__________________Suffering is not good for the soul, unless it teaches you how to stop suffering. That is its purpose. – Seth

I live right downtown and have absolutely no problem with sky high density at all, at all, but not density at any cost anywhere. It is quite uncharacteristic of me to be against a development but that doesn't preclude me from objecting when I think it is warranted. This whole proposal doesn't pass the smell test. I would have no objection if they were to propose the same building for the north east corner of Yonge & Gerrard, just not on Elm Street.

Yes, I assumed your objection was due to the preservation of Elm rather than aversion to density itself. It does make me wonder how this differs from what transpired with Five Condos though. That was built behind old Victorian row houses and their renovation was part of the project. Wouldn't this be in that same vein or is it that people want some streets left entirely unaltered so that the feel of them stays the same?

I understand the interest in that but not sure if it's realistic or even preferable. Cities need to continually re-invent themselves or they'll become functionally obsolete. Even Union Station wasn't immune. As long as preservation is done tastefully and respectfully it should be a win-win proposition.

It does make me wonder how this differs from what transpired with Five Condos though. That was built behind old Victorian row houses and their renovation was part of the project. Wouldn't this be in that same vein or is it that people want some streets left entirely unaltered so that the feel of them stays the same?.

Not sure that Five is an apt comparison. Five maintains not only a respectful distance but also deference to the historical component. 8 Elm treats the historical building like an overbearing master mistreats a skivvy. As for Elm Street itself, it is already shagged to buggery by the Minto Complex and the hotel not to mention the nondescript affordable housing on the south side of the street. Since one third of the street level historical facade will become a garage door for the loading dock, 8 Elm comes off as mere opportunism. It would be kinder to just tear it down but let's not get me started on that!

__________________Suffering is not good for the soul, unless it teaches you how to stop suffering. That is its purpose. – Seth