A subtle factor in the Favre divorce?

Here is a question: what role did Aaron Rodgers’ high football IQ play in the Brett Favre divorce process? At one point I believe in 2007, McCarthy said that the offense under Favre had only learned 1/4 of his total playbook. McCarthy didn’t say this as a crack on Favre – more as a matter of fact. Was Favre reluctant to learn the other 3/4 of the playbook? It’s well documented that Favre has a narrowed preference for all things West Coast and that learning new plays especially later in his career was not something he was much interested in. Did MM ever feel like the true potential of his offensive ideas could only be realized with a potentially more cerebral (or at least more willing-to-learn) QB like Rodgers? Again, I’m not saying Favre is dumb, I don’t think he is, and I know there were lots of other factors in the divorce – but I wonder if this was even a small part of the discussion.

This year, my guess is that we’ll see Rodgers run a huge variety of plays – leaving defenses often guessing and fans once again praising McCarthy’s creativity. While there were times last year when the playcalling was poor/predictable, that seemed to me to be toward the beginning of the year when I think MM was trying to make it easy for Rodgers. But starting with the last 4-5 games of last year through this preseason especially, it seems Rodgers has grown more comfortable calling a greater variety of plays. Perhaps he’s now tapped into the other 3/4 of MM’s ideas.

27 Responses to “A subtle factor in the Favre divorce?”

Subtlety has nothing to do with your query. Just another reason to trash Favre.

How dismissive of the former QB can you get? He gave you everything he had and you are still finding ways to belittle his career. I’m so tired of hearing how smart Rodgers the Rhodes Scholar is…blah-blah-blah. His vaunted superior intellect and video game stats amounted to 6 wins last season and a woeful inability to grab games in the closing minutes. And I will continue to have that opinion until he wins an important game.

Thompson has handed AR a young, brilliant supporting cast, something he denied Favre in his final GB years when he deliberately neglected to upgrade the team. Well this year’s edition with the world’s smartest QB should win their division and then some.

The Packers dumped Favre. Ergo, Causa Finita..but in the midst of a sparkling pre-season, you take time out to once again
diminish #4.

Are you kidding? Are you saying that Thompson was INTENTIONALLY making the team worse so that Favre would leave (never mind that this would also threaten his own job), or that he instructed the “young, brilliant supporting cast” to simply play poorly as long as Favre was still around? What was 2007 then? Was there not a “young, brilliant supporting cast” in place then? Cause if that is what you are suggesting that is far and away the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard of in this long and sordid tale.

Campbell, I wouldn’t call it trashing Favre. Considering what he wrote, I really don’t consider it trashing Favre. Everything Packers mention in regards to Favre now-a-days are taken as an insult of some kind, which yes lots tend to be, but stuff like this is not.

McCarthy’s first season with the Packers likely only had Favre learn a small chunk from the playbook. And it worked, so imagine if they had the entire playbook going. Listen, Favre knows himself, that all the dirty work is not really something he likes doing, so don’t pretend you don’t know yourself. Training camp, OTA’s, and studying and learning more and more playbook. Favre likes sundays, period. If your going to be so ignorant on that fact, just keep your mouth shut.

Favre is a winner, of course. But Favre doesn’t need an entire playbook to be successful. Favre IS smart, and no one said he wasn’t. He is very smart, being in the league for almost 2 decades, he knows his stuff. He knows his reads, he knows the game inside out. Thats why Favre can make 1/4 or 1/2 of a playbook work. Anyone who is successful as a QB in the NFL is smart, no question about it. And anyone who is as successful as Favre flat out knows their stuff.

Bottom line, many Packer fans or lots of people don’t really understand the story with Favre. The media ramped it up to something it wasn’t. Yeah we don’t like the back and forth year after year and all the drama, but other than that its not as bad as it sounds.

Favre told the Packers in march (I think in march) he was done, and Packers understood and gave him time. They came back to him in a couple months after letting him really think about it and asked if he was sure. They wanted to know, because they know he flip flops (yes we aren’t a fan of all that flip flopping) and if he was going to flip flop they would take him back. They knew Favre had potential, so keeping Favre was something they wanted to do.

But Favre insisted he’s staying retired, for now anyways. As it turns out in June, he really is considering coming back. He gets on the phone and starts talking to the Packers and letting them know he has a change of heart. Problem here? Favre wants back after Green Bay has completely moved on and changed their entire direction. Aaron Rodgers is now the guy, the offence may of changed a bit. Everything has been put together for Rodgers now, not Favre. They have been tailoring everything to Rodgers, not Favre.

Green Bay knew of Rodgers capability. Obviously the one thing Rodgers had trouble with was his finishing games, but thats something you find out after you give him the starting job. And injuries were also an issue, but you have to roll the dice and see how well dice fall. But they were right about Rodgers. He has sat behind Favre for how long? 3 years. Favre taught Rodgers everything, and now its his time to play. His time to take all that work to the field and show what he can do now. Green Bay were aware the Rodgers could play. He had the arm, the smarts, the competetiveness etc. They weren’t doubting Rodgers, and they didn’t want to lose him. I mean he had a very good season, and hopefully with a season under his belt as a starter, he will be able to win those close games. 4000 yards in your first season as a starter isn’t a gift, not every quarterback can do that. 28 tds/13 ints fared well too as those are excellent numbers.

Favre isn’t going to be around 10 more years. Rodgers, on the other hand could very well possibly be. Once you decide to move onto the future and have changed things to be ready for it, you can’t scrap that and go back to the past. Rodgers would be devastated. Sitting 3 years and then being slapped in the face? Green Bay can’t risk losing him because he is their future. Very few young QB’s have the chance to stay behind Favre for 3 years. And I’m sure Rodgers wanted to play sooner but after the 3 years has ended, I’m sure he’s greatful for the countless things he’s learned in that span.

You may think that the Packers slapped Favre in the face instead. Well not really. I mean the season is approaching, and the work they’ve done is in the opposite direction of Favre. To go all the way back and be ready for the season is a stretch. And Favre’s health I guarantee played a factor. We all would of loved to see #4 still with us. But the way it played out, it was a bad scenario. Favre put the Packers in a bad spot. But he wanted to play, bottom line. If Green Bay won’t take me back, let me play for someone else, and thats what was in his mind. But Favre plays to win, and he saw an opportunity in Minnesota that couldn’t be better. Yes it betrays loyal fans, but you still have to understand him. Instead he was traded to the Jets. And so forth you know the story.

Favre comes back to play each year, because he wants to play. The guy loves the game, and can’t leave the game. Football is his life. Favre will be remembered for that. We don’t like all that flip flopping but he thinks he’s done, but when he’s gone from the game a couple months, he knows its not the time to throw the towel in yet. Bottom line is the years spent with Green Bay can’t be forgotten. Yes now he’s a Viking, but he did the world to us in Green Bay. How many players like Favre make the game so exciting when you watch. Watching Favre was fun, it was exciting. We all love Favre, and were just a bit upset he still wasn’t here, and now is a Viking. But its the man we all loved, the man who just wanted to play football and if a team is set to win, he’ll play for them. But never forget, he did give the team he’s spent his life with, the first chance to take him back. It was just too late for them to make the change back to him.

And last thing, in regards to the playbook. Rodgers probably did not know much more of the playbook last year than Favre. But our offence clearly was more predictable. When Favre was here, the difference was, was Favre knew how to beat the defence. He was able to read the defence and figure out how the play can work. Thats a talent Favre has, thats what has made him so good. But now that Rodgers has likely learned more and more of the playbook this season (and with him doing a ton of work this offsesaon by constantly spending hours in the film room) it will definately help Rodgers. Defences will have a tougher time knowing whats coming, and as Rodgers gets more experience he may have that ability like Favre to know how to make the plays work and being able to beat the defence even with a small number of plays. But currently thats a gift Favre has that Rodgers doesn’t.

Campbell, I wasn’t writing that to trash Favre and I expressly stated that I don’t think Favre is dumb. He’s not. And, I agree with Travis – in fact, part of Favre’s football genius is his ability to execute at such a high level tapping into a relatively small number of possible plays. And, I even believe it’s somewhat natural for a veteran QB to not want to put the time in to learning new plays or learning new offensive systems. And on the flip side, it’s natural for a young QB to be eager to do that.

I’m not trashing Favre. I’m just wondering if Rodgers apparent game smarts and willingness to grow with McCarthy’s system were a factor in MM/TT feeling less anxious re moving on without Favre.

I disagree with that. If he wanted to play he wouldn’t dither around so much. And he certainly wouldn’t have waited until three weeks into training camp to come back this year. Wanting to playing, and loving the game, means you want to do your best and that means putting in all of the work outside of the games. It doesn’t mean showing up when you feel like it.

It is sort of obvious to say but if MM and TT did not feel Rodgers was going to be an outstanding QB I think they would have welcomed Favre back in June or July. All along I have said MM and TT were making a football decision. They simply felt that they had a better chance at winning a championship with Rodgers over the next 5+ years then with a semi-committed Favre for one more year. It was a gutsy and courageous call considering the team was just short of a Super Bowl. A lot of people disagreed with me that it was a ‘football decision’ and instead felt TT ran Favre out of town for other reasons. Regardless, we can argue about if that was a good football decision or not. With Favre physically breaking down last season and Rodgers seeming to have the skills to be a very effective NFL QB it seems like they have made the right decision. This year will probably be the final test of that decision and as Packer fans we can all hope they made the right decision. It’s definitely not the way we would have wanted the Favre era to end but lets hope Favre’s year ends on IR and Rodgers starts the pro-bowl or better yet is named the Super Bowl MVP!

andy, and most bloggers (not commenters), have been extremely careful not to go overboard with their favre criticism. that’s probably wise, and it is therefore up to us to be brash and dismissive and overly-harsh with ‘those who trespass against us.’

i’m sorry, but Thompson “neglected to upgrade the team.” ??? If by upgrade, you mean sign Randy Moss, or Lavar Arrington, — then you’re right. who knows if Moss in Green Bay would have worked, and if so – for how long? and i think i saw arrington working at Midas the other day. i think of charles woodson as an upgrade. i think of ryan pickett as an upgrade. i think of nick collins as an upgrade. i think of greg jennings, jason spitz, james jones, jordy nelson, jermichael finley, brandon chillar, ryan grant – as upgrades. they’re young and talented, and they don’t cause problems. they’ll be around for more than a year or two, and they won’t cost the packers an arm and a leg. and we get to coach them how we want in our system.

and i think of aaron rodgers as an upgrade. yes, the season will tell. but it was EXACTLY the right time to make the switch. i consider a quarterback who wants to be a part of the team and of team functions and of learning the playbook an upgrade. if i were ted, i’d have been pushing brett out the door unless he signed a contract that said he’d work as hard as he did before the 2007 season, be in great shape, and hey, how about show up to training camp? when he half-asses the off-season, he slumps halfway through.

is ted a p.r. guru? no. he’s not perfect either. and neither is rodgers. but the packers seem to have a knack the past few years for getting rid of players just before their decline on the field (and off in one case). ahman green, darren sharper, corey williams, brent favre.

Packerbelle I don’t think you really understand that statement. Favre does come back because in the end, he just wants to play. If you look at the situation, you see Favre a starter for years finally retired. Each month after his decision he’s been at home, sitting there, thinking about football. He loves the game and misses it too much to actually retire. After a tiresome season and dealing with the battle wounds and injuries like his shoulder and stuff, he really thinks “ya know this is it, I think I’ve had enough.”

What does Favre have to prove to anyone.. I mean he’s accomplished more than enough, he knows that. He’s said I don’t have nothing else to prove. He’s only still playing because he loves the game and wants to play. Anybody who knows Favre knows what Favre is about. His passion for this game. Favre is amongst the top of a list of the players who love the game the most. When you watch Favre play the game, you instantly can tell. Easier to notice back in the day but I’m sure there is still evidence of it. Anyone remember the Raiders game when his father died. Perfect example. He loved the game and did what his father wanted him to do.

All in all, at the end of a season he’s beat up, tired and especially if he needs a surgery, he thinks he’s done. As football season starts heating up and getting closer, that itch becomes a rash. And that rash spreads. And eventually he gives in and comes back. And you think Favre is excited about coming back so he can attend Training Camp, OTA’s, etc. Hell no. Not at all, he hates those, but does understand he needs some sort of participation in the off season. Favre has publicly said that he plays to play on Sunday. That is what brings him back.

But if all you want to do is the fun stuff (i.e. play on Sundays) then you don’t really love playing. Because you don’t want to put the work in to ensure that you perform your best.

I play clarinet and while I don’t do it professionally I do play in community bands and pit orchestras. I’d much prefer to just show up for concerts and play. It’s a lot more fun than individual practicing and two hour rehearsals. But I know that if I do that I’m not doing my best. And I love playing enough to want to play my best and that means putting in the extra work.

To me, this is the difference between loving something and enjoying something. Loving something you want to excel and you want to do everything you can to achieve that goal. Enjoying something, you have fun but you balk at the work that is required to actually excel. Favre enjoys playing football, but I don’t think he loves it anymore.

campbell wrote that thompson “deliberately neglected to upgrade the team.” seriously? it’s not just factually wrong (see joshywoshy), but defies logic. thompson only keeps his job if the team improves and wins. to suggest that he deliberately refused to upgrade the team is to suggest that he didn’t care if he kept his job. so he would give up his spot atop the NFL’s most storied franchise to win a personal dispute with brett favre? not buying.

andy, great post. i think this is one of the key reasons they felt comfortable with rodgers. especially this year (yes, yes — all the caveats about preseason apply) i’ve been blown away by his understanding of defenses (however vanilla) and his decisionmaking. after enduring everything he went through last year, almost entirely without public complaint, the guy produces at a pro-bowl level. sure, i want him to win big games, too. but i think his talent — and especially his smarts — will matter. and we’ll win.

remember, this from someone who was hopefully skeptical about rodgers.

I’ve stated this theory before, but I think it bears repetition: I think Brett doesn’t really know what to do with his life other than play football, and to that extent he’s got the emotional maturity of a sixteen-year-old.

He’s a coach’s son. Pretty much his entire life has revolved around the pigskin, Deanna and the kids notwithstanding. Yes, I hear he likes golf and would be perfectly happy puttering around in his yard in Kiln – but I don’t believe it. If it were true, he’d already be there and stay there.

IMO, he’s the Peter Pan of quarterbacks: he doesn’t want to grow up, face growing old, and admit that his glory days are behind him.

Guys, I’m sick of this Rodgers can’t win the big game crap. In virtually every close game that we lost last year Rodgers drove us down the field to tie or take the lead only to have a field goal missed, special teams allow a big play, or the defense fall apart in the final two minutes. I suppose you could make the arguement that if if he played better then we wouldn’t be in those close games to start with. Well that reasoning appies to the whole team. If our defense had showed up last year and had been able to stop anybody our record would have been drastically different & the games not so close. Guess what guys? Looks like it might show up this year.

Also it seems to me I remember a long conversation between Favre & Mcarthey where even after they had supposedly made the commitment to Rodgers in which Mike asked Brett if he was going to be the same QB as last year i.e., studying films, last man to leave, etc. At the next press conference Mike said Favre had indicated he was not that guy & MM repotedly said Brett was in a “tough spot” right now. He was clearly given a chance to remain a Packer & chose not to. EGO..

Favre gave 16 good years to the Packers & brought us out of about 30 years of mediocrity albeit, not by himself. I will agree that he set all those records without the benfit of a Randy Moss or Jerry Rice but hey, Sterling Sharpe, Donald Driver, Chumura, –that ain’t exactly chicken feed. Personally I think he owns a lot of those records not only because of phenomenal talent but also because he was blessed with a body with a remarkable ability to heal. Hard to set records from the sideline which fortunately, he never had to.

Regarding Favre’s intelligence I find it hard to think anyone could think him anything but brilliant. He’s been able to bilk 12,000,000 from the Jets, now the Vikes. And how about throwing out that rumor about the cracked rib yesteday. Brilliant. Deviant–but brilliant.

Oh and Campbell, BTW, I am so sorry you found my little link to the Hitler parody sooooo offensive. Take a pill dude.

Packerbelle, your still not getting it fully. I agree with what you said but I might not of been clear myself.

Favre goes and plans to retire after a rigorous season on his body. I mean the body is getting older, and pain comes more easily and stays alot longer. So obviously with his age, his body takes a much bigger toll after a season is finished. So he says he’s done, and now is left thinking about football over and over. As the season approaches he really thinks, am I truly done? I really don’t want to stop playing, I still want to play.

Your right Ebongreen, he can’t give up the game. It’s his life. But he isn’t childish. His flip flopping yes annoys us, but it is what he’s thinking. A guy Favre’s age with nothing to prove at the end of the season makes perfect sense to stop playing. A guy like Favre who loves the game makes perfect sense for him to say, No, I’m not done football, I still want to play if my body lets me.

And lastly about putting in the extra time. I mentioned he doesn’t like it, obviously he has more reason than anybody to not like it. It’s just more and more work his body needs to deal with. But I mentioned that Favre knows he has to put in some effort and participate in the off season so he will be ready and in synch with the team. He may be a bit behind, but as soon as he gets with a team and is unretired, he’s in there.

It’s like the season is over. He’s done. OTAs and off season workouts are going on and Favre still doesn’t have a big enough urge to come out of retirement. Training camp approaches and he must be able to smell the tailgating grills for the opening weekend kickoff and can’t convince himself to stay retired. It’s not like he goes and unretires a week before the season after all the grunt work is over. Thats not really the case.

And another note is he works out with the highschool even before he’s unretired. So he keeps his arm in shape.

Travis, my point is that if you truly loved the game the physical and mental toll shouldn’t matter because it would be outweighed by the love of the game. It isn’t like this is the first time he’s had to deal with pain and/or fatigue in the offseason. If you truly love to do something you don’t let that stuff deter you. If you enjoy something, you do.

As for his flip-flopping not being childish, yes it is. An adult knows that actions have consequences for you and for people around you. Favre retired from the Packers and then a) couldn’t stick with his decision and b) got mad when he couldn’t act like he never made the decision. That’s childish. He didn’t care that the Packers couldn’t wait until June or July to see if he actually wanted to stay retired but had to move on. He changed his mind and so they should let him do whatever he wanted. Screw the effect it has on the team and how unfair it is to his teammates who actually did show up for all of the off-season.

And working out with a high school team isn’t keeping in shape. For one thing, high school’s don’t start working out until the summer whereas pro OTAs and such start in the spring so you are missing a lot of time there. January to June is a long time to not be keeping up endurance, flexibility and strength. Remember, before teh 2007 season he had a trainer live with him during the off-season. That’s the dedication of someone who loves to play football.

Favre wants to play, but doesn’t want to put in the work. That’s why he claimed he physically wasn’t up to a season in the end of July but miraculously was just fine three weeks later once the Vikings were no longer living in dorms for training camp. That isn’t loving the game.

packerbelle and Travis, I happen to agree with both of you (I don’t think your ppoints are mutually exclusive) and the discussion brings to mind something that a young packer (jennings?) attributed to favre a few years back. I am too lazy to find it on-line right now, but the story was to the effect that favre told this young player- You don’t get paid to play on Sundays, that part is fun and you’d do it for free. You get *paid* to prepare and practice and put in the work that makes Sunday successful.

A well-expressed thought, but I wonder how well Favre measures up to his own standard now. I thought Favre looked terrible on Monday night. Well, maybe not terrible, but he looked worse than Schaub and T. Jackson. He didn’t move well and he didn’t look down the field at all. It reminded me of a sunday night game a few years ago when the Ravens played the Steelers and an aged Steve McNair danced in the pocket and made every checkdown pass he could. I know Favre can still throw the ball with velocity, but I think his accuracy is way off and he doesn’t feel comfortable throwing downfield much anymore. Might not matter, since A. Peterson will be a threat to rush for 2k yards every healthy year from now until he retires, but I think Favre will have trouble being much more than a Chad Pennington-type caretaker for that offense.

And I thank everyone else for their responses/thoughts and reactions, even the snide ones. I’d also like to thank awhayes for Packergeeks. From the beginning of the Favre saga, the vile, nauseating comments of the Favre-haters on all other boards have been execrable.

On this site there is at least a semblance of dignity no matter your feelings towards Favre.

I differ on the opinion that Thompson upgraded the team during Favre’s tenure. He upgraded for the foreseeable future, not the immediate future. Favre played with a young, inexperienced team during the 4-12 season, and it seemed to me that he was the only one who tried on the field, and I don’t think he was awarded the same “pass” that Rodgers was given for 6-10.

2009 looks like a fabulous year, with a probable MVP candidate in Rodgers being the leader of an offence that might rival Air Coryell or those great St. Louis/Warner teams, and I hear more and more of the media jumping on the GB bandwagon.

I wish all of you Packergeeks exciting and successful Lambeau football..I’ll be watching the old man in Minnesota. Love/hate him, no-one plays this wonderful game with the same unbridled joy and enthusiasm.

56 coop on target re AR and close games. 2 Crosby makes instead of misses and we are 8-8. AR gave us what should have been the final score of the game 3-4 times only to have a defensive collapse. Just as 13-3 the year before could have been 9-7, last year could have been 10-6. Every year perhaps 1/2 the games can go either way with 5 minutes left in the game. A break, a bad call, a player error changes the outcome. How many times in his last 3-4 years did BF cough it up, get picked at the end of the game resulting in a loss. I am now an AR fan and predict he will get the final score, a winning score, with frequency this year now that we have a better defense.

campbell, get a life! Rodgers is not the bad guy in this. In fact the only bad guy is Favre. WE GAVE Favre everything he has! Not the other way around. WE took a chance on a poor sport backup from Atlanta! Many other teams shied away because they knew how he was. Favre strikes me as the guy who always wants to do it his own way, regardless of the disastrous consequences. Oh and how tired is your comment that we went 6-10 last year with Rodgers! Are you really trying to say Favre would have done better? What a joke? Where were you when Favre took us to 4-12 not so long ago. Grow up or get a new team. You are a cancer like Favre!

gbpackattack,
neither campbell nor favre is a cancer. favre is a jackass, but does not multiply, and has not yet to date killed millions of people in any single calendar year. cancer does both of those things. therefore, brent is not a cancer.

campbell has an opinion. cancer cannot have an opinion. therefore, campbell is not cancer.

i understand that even assholes are welcome on this blog, if they temper their fervor and negative emotions whenever possible. therefore, i can deduce (but not command) that you are welcome here. you have opinions, and that is important.

Opinions are like thumbs. Most people have at least 2. Ditto on Joshy’s post. I like the fact that a person can come here & put out whatever it is they have to put out & in most cases spark legitimate debates with good points on both sides. Not much of the adolescent name calling, smack talk BS found on so many other sites although some of the “debates” can go on & on & on even when it’s obvious that the opinions expressed by one party are not going to be swayed or changed. Kinda like the ridiculous bipartisan crap going on in our political system.

Debates can sometimes get “heated” which is one of the good things about the debating process. I like this site because in general all people are welcome and there are a lot of passionate knowledgeable Packer fans here.

56Coop…Alas and alack, my last name is bereft of academic acronyms. Just teaching nuns who encouraged us to look up a difficult/unusual word every day and use it and it’s synonyms in a short story. Then as a chaser, use the word’s antonyms in another short story.