Ukraine crisis: US and Russia set for Paris talks :Lavrov Sets out Ukraine as a neautral State as a

Well this is exactly what we all expected. Russia demands Ukraine stay out of NATO
and remain Neutral as prerequisite to the negotiations between Lavrov and John Kerry.

I think the Russians will just about get the nod on this, but also I am
pretty sure that NATO countries will not forgive or forget
and beef up their presence around the rest of the European borders.

The bear has growled.. but it is time to return to the cave.

If the West decide that Ukraine is going to be in NATO I think we can
expect a fight.

We wait and see the result of the talks.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has set out demands for a neutral and federal Ukraine, ahead of crisis talks with his US counterpart in
Paris. Sunday evening's meeting with Secretary of State John Kerry was hastily arranged after President Vladimir Putin phoned Barack Obama on
Friday. Russia has annexed Crimea and there are reports of thousands of Russian troops massed close to Ukraine's borders. Mr Lavrov has
categorically denied any plans for an invasion. But he has stressed Moscow will protect the rights of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers, after
pro-EU protests in Kiev led to the ousting of Ukraine's President Viktor Yanukovych. He had faced months of protests after pulling out of an
association deal with Brussels.

Hard to say what sort of talks will happen ..Kerry is a buffoon imo and doesn't consider or know enough about near time history to be in a position
to be taken seriously ...I would like to see the present Washington Nazi regime taken out of power and the opposition leader before the coup to make
up the interim Govt .Oh and the Gold returned to the Ukraine . All of the deals that were made in haste by all parties including Crimea to reset .
Then to have a legitimate vote on all sides to see what the people want ...If they decide to elect the Nazi's in then so be it . If they want to join
the EU or Russia or remain independent then so be it ....NATO cannot be brought into that region because of the immediate threat to Russia and every
one knows this and it makes sense ......peace

On a deeper thought, its actually very difficult for the US to agree to Russias demands. Yes it will avert an invasion but it will make the US appear
weak. The Ukrainian gov is very dependant on the US, they will feel abandoned.

You may see it as Ukraine being abandoned by the US but I look at it like US using Ukraine .Don't you find it strange that the Ukraine's Gold was
rushed off to the US for safe keeping ? Is Ukraine not capable of protecting their own Gold reserves ? I see it as the Fox watching the hen house
....peace ETA ..So you think it's normal for someone who doesn't live in your neighborhood to except or reject who your neighbors should be . Is
Ukraine not independent enough to make their own decisions without needing the US to tell them what is or is not acceptable ?

asen_y2k
On a deeper thought, its actually very difficult for the US to agree to Russias demands. Yes it will avert an invasion but it will make the US appear
weak. The Ukrainian gov is very dependant on the US, they will feel abandoned.

Any idea when the talks end?

edit on 30/3/14 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

I don't know... Ukraine has a dispute with Russia and that alone
excludes its membership to NATO.. I'm pretty sure that's one of the cards that is being played here.

Part of the problem I think you're going to have here, and I think you'll see it all throughout the former Soviet Bloc countries, is that there are
a lot of ethnic and cultural Russians living in the Ukraine. If I remember correctly, the Soviets intentionally mixed up the populations of their Bloc
countries by forcibly moving out and/or otherwise removing large segments of the population and replacing them with "colonies" of Russians.

It's similar to the strategy the Romans used to use - move in colonies of Roman citizens to Romanize conquered territories.

It hasn't been long enough for those Russians to forget their motherland, and it hasn't been long enough for the "host" populations to forget it,
either. I imagine assimilation has been difficult as much as many of these countries suffered at the hands of the Soviets.

Right now, it's providing Putin with a ready excuse to move in, and it's also providing a large voting block in favor of rejoining Russia in every
one of those countries.

Eric Margolis has a new piece up and it's is a good read ...."Soviet chairman Mikhail Gorbachev had agreed to let rebellious East Germany escape
Soviet control – but in exchange for NATO’s vow not to push east in previously Soviet dominated areas of Eastern Europe and the Caucasus. The US
and NATO agreed, then quickly broke their pledge.

NATO’s advance into Eastern Europe, the Baltic and the Caucasus – not to mention former Soviet Central Asia – that brought the US-led alliance
right up to Russia’s borders. US anti- missile systems were scheduled to go into Poland, close to Russian territory. New US bases were set up in
Bulgaria, Rumania and Central Asia.
'
Unsubtle US efforts to bring ex-Russian Ukraine and the vital Sevastopol naval base in Crimea under NATO control – no doubt to punish Russia for
supporting Syria and Iran – proved the last straw for the Kremlin." www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Pepe Escobar wrote back on the 12th "All aboard the Finland station
The US State Department has practically agreed to a federal and in fact Finlandized Ukraine [1] which, by the way, is the solution being proposed by
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov right from the start, as this Russian white paper attests. US Secretary of State John Kerry - as when Moscow
saved the "red line" Obama administration from bombing Syria - will go on overdrive to steal all the credit from the Russians. US corporate media will
duly buy it, but not independents such as Moon of Alabama. [2]

This - sensible - road map implies, among other crucial points; strong autonomous regions; Russian reinstated as an official language, alongside
Ukrainian; and most of all political/military neutrality, that is, Finlandization. To get there will be the mission of a support group - once again,
proposed by Moscow from the start - with the US, EU and Russia as members.

All that finally sanctified by a UN Security Council resolution (true, it could go spectacularly wrong, and most of all sabotaged by the "West".) And
all that, as well, without Moscow having to officially recognize the regime changers in Kiev. In a nutshell; Moscow called Washington's bluff - and
won." This may be what the meeting is going to have in it ....peace

Also, I will say this - For a bunch of countries about to erupt into war, all of them have been working overtime to conclude regulatory and licensing
deals and agreements with my husband's place of work which means they still foresee a long-term trade relationship going forward at this time (this
includes Russia and Ukraine both). Of course, German business interests have always been known to be pragmatic, but in this case, we are talking about
product manufactured in the US.

Don't think that either Russia nor the US has the right to determine where Ukraine's future lays

Ukraine has the right to request to join NATO after this aggression from Russia

Russia new full well that Ukraine's majority wanted this and this set about to annex historic region and threatened to grab the East also, Russia can
continue throwing its toys out it's not going to stop the inevitable happening

Absolutely not... Only Ukraine can determine their future, which includes who they choose to ally with. Even more so with all the other BS Putin has
going on in the East / South Ukraine and well as Moldova and the latest comments about Finland. Telling Ukraine they cant join NATO while there are
60-80 thousand Russian troops on the border is, again, a choice with a gun held to their head.

I think the NATO issue is coming up because it will throw his time table off. As a member of NATO Putin will have to do whatever it is he is going to
do prior to the join date.

I say bring Ukraine into NATO immediately and deploy troops to Ukraine to protect against further Russian aggression.

asen_y2k
On a deeper thought, its actually very difficult for the US to agree to Russias demands. Yes it will avert an invasion but it will make the US appear
weak. The Ukrainian gov is very dependant on the US, they will feel abandoned.

Any idea when the talks end?

edit on 30/3/14 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

The Ukrainian government should stop dreaming and focus on reality and priorities for survival of its country:
- not to jeopardize gas deals with Russia,
- not to loose Russia as a main trade partner,
without those 2 things they are done.
They should not focus on what some buffoon from White House has in his mind, just in order to get closer to Russian borders and dream about having
free access to natural resources of Russia.

asen_y2k
The timing cannot be better, these talks will decide the future of Ukraine. If US agrees then I think Russia will back down. If not then an invasion
is imminent.

I doubt an invasion is imminent. the USA is a long way away to get involved and all European nations would be stomped one by one. No one is going to
invade even if the talks turn sour, no ones stupid enough to risk war over Crimea, especially when Crimea wants to be Russian and used to be Russian.

Xcathdra
Putin / Russia started this mess. They are the ones who need to deescalate, not the west.

Unless one day down the road we learn that this entire crisis including Svoboda and the Right Sector was artificially incited, supported and guided
from the outside, by western intelligence agencies via NGOs and dubious operations such as NATOs GLADIO.

I'm telling you once more, Xcathdra, I'm not taking sides here. Both parties have violated international law. None has the moral highground to point
fingers.

Xcathdra
Putin / Russia started this mess. They are the ones who need to deescalate, not the west.

Unless one day down the road we learn that this entire crisis including Svoboda and the Right Sector was artificially incited, supported and guided
from the outside, by western intelligence agencies via NGOs and dubious operations such as NATOs GLADIO.

I'm telling you once more, Xcathdra, I'm not taking sides here. Both parties have violated international law. None has the moral highground to point
fingers.

edit on 31-3-2014 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)

And for some to constantly blame the west while ignoring Russian actions is a problem. Russia invaded Ukraine and that is not in doubt. Ukraine is
not a NATO country and does not station NATO troops on its territory. Ukraine did not mass it troops on the border with Russia.

all of those actions were Russian, not Ukrainian and not western. Again if the situation needs to be brought down a few notches, that falls squarely
on Russias shoulders and no one elses.

The problem Russia just made for itself is the number of countries now looking at possible NATO membership. If I were in Ukraine, after seeing what
Russia has done, I would be pushing for NATO membership to ensure Russia made no further moves into my country.

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