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I think the mafia boards make it pretty clear that we were playing our own little vanilla phalla game until night 7 when our world imploded and we couldn't ever really get back on top of what was playing out around us.

Figgy, you were kind of right about me; I think killing me was a waste. I was not a very useful gene.

This game had interesting mechanics but I definitely think having incorrect host information about the brood was a mistake. I liked the idea that the neutral genes had to make an effort to get converted. Dying blue meant failing your win condition but dying green/purple meant you could still win in your team won. Before I was changed I was hoping to be in cahoots with the mafia purely to stay alive, since I didn't think the brood would convert me when my identity was compromised.

Nope, your gene was needed to create some of the more powerful dragons. You and kime were super important genes for transformations.

Also smoove I can't believe you didn't tie the vote to vote out obi, why wouldn't you do that as mafia. Alegis might have died but you would have killed the cult leader, you might have actually had a shot at winning.

This + your other post about vigging genes is what I "thought" would/might happen, thus the extra day. But Obi's group did a decent job in convincing the mafia that they could leave the game victorious and then the mafia win afterward, so I think thats why they did what they did.

I haven't done the math, but I'm not really seeing a win solution for the village or mafia the day before it ended, especially since everyone knew who the important people were. The vote going last was definitely a detriment to the village (and the mafia at the end too)

At the start, yes, in a mechanical sense. I think it's fair to assume that survivor neutrals typically align with the village in trying to kill mafia, so I sort of counted them as village in the original tally (making it more like 70%). If that's a point of contention, fair enough, but the core mechanic doesn't really work any other way, so without drastically changing the game, not a lot of other options.

Except you really can't count them like that. Like was said earlier, survival neutrals want to get in with the mafia, since they have the most kills. Even if you're charitable and say that ryu had converted a person every day to the end, that's still barely a village majority, and since the vote is theoretically the village's main power....

So yeah, I was the seer, and with the host confirming that brood were village aligned, and being unable to seer the teepo faction (they resulted as if they were neutralish), I don't know what I was supposed to do. I knew obi lied to me about his hp, but the only thing I could think was that he needed to maybe kill ryu or something not completely cultish.

My other option was to out myyself as the seer to everyone and possibly kill a village special in the same swoop.

So

One thing I would point at is that you clearly didn't trust them! You said so yourself in PMs to me

Even so, I definitely screwed up the wording in that clarification. My goal with that clarification was actually NOT to tell the village they were allied with the brood, just to clarify that villagers were NOT brood themselves, but I took it too far, and then was in kind of an awkward position.

Figgy, you were kind of right about me; I think killing me was a waste. I was not a very useful gene.

This game had interesting mechanics but I definitely think having incorrect host information about the brood was a mistake. I liked the idea that the neutral genes had to make an effort to get converted. Dying blue meant failing your win condition but dying green/purple meant you could still win in your team won. Before I was changed I was hoping to be in cahoots with the mafia purely to stay alive, since I didn't think the brood would convert me when my identity was compromised.

Nope, your gene was needed to create some of the more powerful dragons. You and kime were super important genes for transformations.

Yeah, Infinity and Failure (and Thorn) had the most HP of all genes, and were involved in the best transformations.

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

Figgy, you were kind of right about me; I think killing me was a waste. I was not a very useful gene.

This game had interesting mechanics but I definitely think having incorrect host information about the brood was a mistake. I liked the idea that the neutral genes had to make an effort to get converted. Dying blue meant failing your win condition but dying green/purple meant you could still win in your team won. Before I was changed I was hoping to be in cahoots with the mafia purely to stay alive, since I didn't think the brood would convert me when my identity was compromised.

Nope, your gene was needed to create some of the more powerful dragons. You and kime were super important genes for transformations.

Are you sure? According the PM I got, I couldn't be used in combination with other genes and I gave the dragon a roleblock ability. It didn't seem all that impressive to me.

Akimbo I had fun, thanks for running.
Looking over the roles, my role felt a bit under-powered. If I'm reading correctly, Ryu and Teepo were able to confirm 2-3 people a night?
And Langly was able to confirm one a night?
Looks like there were quite a few people who would take me multiple nights to kill. I'm not sure how viable that is.

First time I was a serial killer, and I thought I did okay with it. I feel really bad I forgot that vote comes last and forgot my last kill.

Figgy, you were kind of right about me; I think killing me was a waste. I was not a very useful gene.

This game had interesting mechanics but I definitely think having incorrect host information about the brood was a mistake. I liked the idea that the neutral genes had to make an effort to get converted. Dying blue meant failing your win condition but dying green/purple meant you could still win in your team won. Before I was changed I was hoping to be in cahoots with the mafia purely to stay alive, since I didn't think the brood would convert me when my identity was compromised.

Nope, your gene was needed to create some of the more powerful dragons. You and kime were super important genes for transformations.

Are you sure? According the PM I got, I couldn't be used in combination with other genes and I gave the dragon a roleblock ability. It didn't seem all that impressive to me.

So yeah, I was the seer, and with the host confirming that brood were village aligned, and being unable to seer the teepo faction (they resulted as if they were neutralish), I don't know what I was supposed to do. I knew obi lied to me about his hp, but the only thing I could think was that he needed to maybe kill ryu or something not completely cultish.

My other option was to out myyself as the seer to everyone and possibly kill a village special in the same swoop.

So

One thing I would point at is that you clearly didn't trust them! You said so yourself in PMs to me

Even so, I definitely screwed up the wording in that clarification. My goal with that clarification was actually NOT to tell the village they were allied with the brood, just to clarify that villagers were NOT brood themselves, but I took it too far, and then was in kind of an awkward position.

I didn't trust them, and in fact wasted two nights seering each one, but had no mechanical agency to do anything about it other than something that was, to me, potentially damming to the village.

I still don't understand the decision to make their alignment unseerable, not just obi's but all teepo faction. How was the village ever supposed to know they were evil?

Hahahaha this was by far the most fun I have ever had in a phalla seriously the day 7 shenanigan planning was pretty intense we thought for sure it was all going to blow up in our face and it came so close to doing just that. Thanks akimbo it was great.

Hahahaha this was by far the most fun I have ever had in a phalla seriously the day 7 shenanigan planning was pretty intense we thought for sure it was all going to blow up in our face and it came so close to doing just that. Thanks akimbo it was great.

Yeah, for future reference. a couple minutes before vote close is perfectly fine to pull something like that.

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

We could only use the genes we had already converted. So the only confirmation we got was after we tried to claim them, which happened after the vote.

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

We could only use the genes we had already converted. So the only confirmation we got was after we tried to claim them, which happened after the vote.

Converted how? Basically what I'm saying is there was a way to confirm people's roles each night outside of a seer ability.

Also smoove I can't believe you didn't tie the vote to vote out obi, why wouldn't you do that as mafia. Alegis might have died but you would have killed the cult leader, you might have actually had a shot at winning.

This + your other post about vigging genes is what I "thought" would/might happen, thus the extra day. But Obi's group did a decent job in convincing the mafia that they could leave the game victorious and then the mafia win afterward, so I think thats why they did what they did.

I haven't done the math, but I'm not really seeing a win solution for the village or mafia the day before it ended, especially since everyone knew who the important people were. The vote going last was definitely a detriment to the village (and the mafia at the end too)

At the start, yes, in a mechanical sense. I think it's fair to assume that survivor neutrals typically align with the village in trying to kill mafia, so I sort of counted them as village in the original tally (making it more like 70%). If that's a point of contention, fair enough, but the core mechanic doesn't really work any other way, so without drastically changing the game, not a lot of other options.

Except you really can't count them like that. Like was said earlier, survival neutrals want to get in with the mafia, since they have the most kills. Even if you're charitable and say that ryu had converted a person every day to the end, that's still barely a village majority, and since the vote is theoretically the village's main power....

I would argue the vote wasn't their best power this game, but even still, the uninformed nature of survivor neutrals, I still think, means they vote along with the network (if one exists), or at the very least they act like villagers in analysis, so at least for a little while, the vote is still under village control.

The village were (I think) the strongest faction on paper. Teepo and Ryu were basically the same (Teepo's fusion could (only) target dead people and he had 2 more HP, but Ryu's claims triggered first), plus a 5 HP seer, 5 HP heal/guardian (who also self healed for 1, starting day 3), a non-elemental vig and an any elemental vig, all of whom had an elemental resist, and a series of specials with 4 or 5 HP (Jono/corvidae also had an additional ability to inform the dragons about possible combinations).

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

I didn't know anything about that dragon transformation stuff. It was like "you're a failure gene. You give a roleblock. You negate other genes." and I thought well it's a good thing the mafia is going to kill me today anyway because I'm useless.

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

We could only use the genes we had already converted. So the only confirmation we got was after we tried to claim them, which happened after the vote.

Converted how? Basically what I'm saying is there was a way to confirm people's roles each night outside of a seer ability.

We could "claim" one player a night and had to submit who we wanted to try to claim before the vote, but the claiming happens after the vote. If they were an unactivated gene, they got our wincon and we could use them the next night to form dragons. We couldn't use the same gene two nights in a row, though, and if they died we lost access to their power.

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

Not when the host confirms that his faction is village aligned.

He said the brood are village aligned. Kime lied. He was a gene.

Was he unseerable or was he guarded when you tried to seer him?

yeah, a gene tied to a dragon. A dragon which was host confirmed to be village aligned.

I had fun guys. Grats to my Teepo brethren, I will say that I was cursing when you're votes were coming in late. I knew the forum time was off from previous phallas and I wanted to yell at you so much.

Glad I was able to (maybe?) confuse people with my list of characters by listing all the Brood as village aligned. I'm surprised no one ever brought up that Team Teepo died not-green.

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

Not when the host confirms that his faction is village aligned.

He said the brood are village aligned. Kime lied. He was a gene.

Was he unseerable or was he guarded when you tried to seer him?

yeah, a gene tied to a dragon. A dragon which was host confirmed to be village aligned.

kime didn't lie about anything, by the way. He said he was a gene. He said it was host confirmed that the brood were village aligned. That was true.

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

Not when the host confirms that his faction is village aligned.

He said the brood are village aligned. Kime lied. He was a gene.

Was he unseerable or was he guarded when you tried to seer him?

In my defense, I actually said the village are aligned with the brood, not the brood are aligned with the village. I guess you could argue its semantics, but there are different implications (in my mind).

But I still recognize that as being poor phrasing, which had way too much of an effect on the game. You guys can stop talking about it now

All in all, I had a lot of fun. I will say my night shift was pretty hectic when I stole away to the break room and checked my phone to see kime had outed me. Bastard! Later on in the night, someone came up to me and said, "Are you fighting with your wife or something? You've been back here on your phone a lot."

My only problem with the mechanics, from my end, was the use of gene conversion as a form of seering. Anyone who approached kime as a seer/brood could be easily confirmed that night an hour before vote close by trying to make a dragon with them, right? Then, the actual seer power could be saved for mafia hunting.

And Langly, man, when you seer kime and it comes back blocked, you keeeeeel him.

Not when the host confirms that his faction is village aligned.

He said the brood are village aligned. Kime lied. He was a gene.

Was he unseerable or was he guarded when you tried to seer him?

In my defense, I actually said the village are aligned with the brood, not the brood are aligned with the village. I guess you could argue it's semantics, but there are different implications (in my mind).

But I still recognize that as being poor phrasing, which had way too much of an effect on the game. You guys can stop talking about it now