The homeopathic doctor I saw gave me cat's claw. I asked him if it was TOA free and he said no, that TOA free (Samento) is very expensive and his research shows no difference in it's effectiveness. Do those of you that use Samento have good results with it? The homeopathic doctor charged me $125 for the visit in which he didn't even ask about my symptoms - and then $100 more for cat's claw, a multi vitamin, magnesium and vitamin C and zinc - enough for two weeks. That seems expensive and maybe I should just order Cowden's herbs online. What is a good site, and do they work? I am losing faith in everyone. They seem eager to take advantage of sick people with promises that do not work.

I'd be interested in hearing feedback on this one also. In the beginning, I was ready to try anything and everything, regardless of cost and spent hundreds of dollars on different things, including NT Factor supplements and Zhang herbs. However, I've become much more leary of the claims made about these expensive herbs and supplements and now often search for less costly products. I recently bought a Cats Claw tincture that was about $15.00 - obviously not TOA free at that price. I am slowly getting better, especially with the fatigue, but am not sure what to credit that to - abx, supplements, herbs... maybe a combination of all.

In Buhner's book ("Healing Lyme"), he says he doesn't believe the evidence supporting use of TOA-free Cat's Claw is all that great, and he also thinks there is better evidence supporting the use of non-TOA-free Cat's Claw. He tells patients to use regular Cat's Claw, not the TOA version, and says he has seen it work fine. Remember, Cat's Claw doesn't directly kill the Lyme bacteria - it serves to support the immune system and boosts CD57 counts.

I loaned my copy of Buhner's book to someone who never gave it back (even though I asked for it 4 times!). The homeopathic doctor said he believes it is the best source of help for lyme patients wanting herbal treatment. Maybe that is where he did his research although he did not give credit to Buhner. I bought Buhner's herbs (andrographis and reserveratrol) but could not use them. For some wierd reason, I got bladder irritation from them so bad I had to go to the doctor. It was painful. When I quit, it went away - and when I started the herbs again, thinking it was just a coincidence, it started back up again. The cat's claw does not bother me. I broke down this afternoon and ordered Cowden's herbs - Samento (TOA free cat's claw) and two others.I will see if there is a difference. I also got grape seed extract from the health food store. I get a headache a few hours after taking it so maybe that is a good thing. 5 bottles of Cowdens herbs cost me $200 - hopefully they last a couple of months. This is still cheaper than the hdr. I have been treating myself and it is getting me down. . . I have no choice as there is no one for 900 miles that understands this disease. I met someone whose husband has lyme (tested positive at IGENEX) but his doctor is giving him steriods for RA! Very sad.One very nice thing about Dr. Zhang - I returned $440 of his herbs and they called today to say they are sending me a check. But they said normally they do not refund unopened bottles of herbs after 30 days - so you don't want to order too much of their stuff.

You know there is a lizard somewhere in CA whose blood kills Bb. There is no lyme in that area. Get a patent on that lizards blood and go into business. That is not my thing. I am just being annoyed with all of this.

I'm glad someone brought this up. I've heard it speculated that this assertion that Samento with some of the alkalide groups removed as being more effective was started solely by that one manufacturer we all know that markets such a product. Kinda rings true to me.

I tried the TOA free product (both caps and extract) and actually felt it didn't work as well as the conventional (and way less expensive) Cat's Claw I've used since. Now granted that could be b/c I couldn't afford to use nearly as much of it as the whole Cat's Claw, but in the end isn't it just the results we care about? If the TOA free stuff is so much more effective, then the smaller dose should have been more powerful.

Thank you for discussing this, Samento is so expensive - I'll be ordering ordinary cat's claw now & taking a higher dose.housebound in the UK with 'severe M.E./CFs & fibromyalgia' for 21 years - have just found out I actually have had Lyme, micro-cocci & crytostrongylus pulmoni all these years

Interesting discussion. I've had terrible luck with conventional medicine. Lucked into immune system strengthening while trying to deal with my rash that the docs didn't know how to handle. I'm convinced that boosting the immune system is the way to go. Too many moving parts to LD.