I still disagree. I know from the zoom out of Northrend's map it looks like it's only half covered with snow but if you actually fly through or even checkout the screenshots on wowhead, there is more than the map indicates. Still this has gotten further away from my point.

Even if just half the continent is covered in snow that's still far less creative than Tbc's area design. Covering 50% of your terrain with white is not interesting.

I barely even remember what the map looks like. :S I spent a lot of time in both Wrath and Cataclysm in Northrend (plus I just leveled my monk through there). I'm very familiar with how the actual areas look.

While I do agree that there's a lot less variance in Northrend (or Pandaria) compared to Outland, "different" is not necessarily "better". You get some really nice zones like Zangarmarsh, Netherstorm, and Shadowmoon Valley, and some really awful ones like Hellfire Peninsula and Blade's Edge Mountains. At least with Northrend and Pandaria pretty much the entire continents look good. (And as far as Pandaria goes, the differences between zones are far more apparent on the ground than they are from the air.)

I was agreeing with you bro. lol. Valve is not an evil company out just to make $$$, they are smart businessmen. Unlike Blizzard.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 08:47 PM ----------

Yet people choose to buy it because they WANT to play them? You arent making any sense now Kangdo!

Actually he is making sense. It's the impulse logic that retail stores use, put the cheap stuff right near the check out so when you are waiting in line you pickup 2 or 3 more things that you actually didn't need but end up buying. And you call that good business but WOW putting in more content (although which you don't personally prefer) into their game and still only charge the same monthly amount you say they are a greedy company.

It's the same, both companies are trying to max profits. Sorry if you prefer one model over the other but both companies are trying to milk you for as much as they reasonably can. One does it monthly and with optional micro transactions, the other by tempting you to spend more than you intended. Also how much advertising does Valve put out on Stream. Every time you log in there are games available to be purchased.

While I do agree that there's a lot less variance in Northrend (or Pandaria) compared to Outland, "different" is not necessarily "better". You get some really nice zones like Zangarmarsh, Netherstorm, and Shadowmoon Valley, and some really awful ones like Hellfire Peninsula and Blade's Edge Mountains. At least with Northrend and Pandaria pretty much the entire continents look good. (And as far as Pandaria goes, the differences between zones are far more apparent on the ground than they are from the air.)

This is basically the point I was making.

Seriously, look at Hellfire. (Yes, I know I keep going on about it :S)
You talked about covering the land in white for Northrend. Hellfire is just covered in orange. Same texture over and over, exactly the same as the snow.

Seriously, look at Hellfire. (Yes, I know I keep going on about it :S)
You talked about covering the land in white for Northrend. Hellfire is just covered in orange. Same texture over and over, exactly the same as the snow.

Anyway, this is kind of Off Topic, isn't it? ^^

Although I really love BC's raids but imo Outland is the worst leveling world ever. I freaking hate HF.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 08:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Lomak

Valve has never sacrificed any part of their games in order to be "more appealing". They make a game, polish it, and do a damn good job.

Now look at wow. The developers would , at the drop of a hat, completely change something (regardless of how it works gameplay wise) if it meant pleasing people and increasing profit margins.

The difference is that Valve does not sacrifice its integrity for profit.

Meanwhile every other month you got wow dev's trying to sell you a digital cat for 20 bucks. LOL integrity.

What Blizzard did sacrifice? Could you be more specific? and what's wrong with selling cosmetic shit? If I remember right Valve does that too.... You could argue that Blizzard put even more effort into their games like making super high quality cinematics which were freaking expensive. All those cinematics are arguably a waste of resource.

Seriously, look at Hellfire. (Yes, I know I keep going on about it :S)
You talked about covering the land in white for Northrend. Hellfire is just covered in orange. Same texture over and over, exactly the same as the snow.

Anyway, this is kind of Off Topic, isn't it? ^^

Its just your biased opinion that hellfire is a bad zone. I quite enjoy leveling through the zone, as it is lore intensive. Its a nicely designed zone too. Its got that stark reddish landscape that really makes it feel alien and near to space. The sky looks amazing there too.

Blades edge isnt a bad zone either. It is varied and each little pocket is a new area with different and interesting quests. I admit, it was a pain to level through it during TBC when you didnt have flying until 70, but now that you can fly at 60, it makes the zone super fun. Try leveling there next time you are level 65ish, its not bad at all.

Valve has never sacrificed any part of their games in order to be "more appealing". They make a game, polish it, and do a damn good job.

Now look at wow. The developers would , at the drop of a hat, completely change something (regardless of how it works gameplay wise) if it meant pleasing people and increasing profit margins.

The difference is that Valve does not sacrifice its integrity for profit.

Meanwhile every other month you got wow dev's trying to sell you a digital cat for 20 bucks. LOL integrity.

Valve isn't making an MMO that needs to keep the customer interested month to month. Valve makes games that you play through once. They don't change the games (much) due to customer feedback because they don't need to keep your attention after the first purchase.

That is the differnce, for Valve to make money, they need to make a product people will enjoy enough to pay for once, WoW has to get people to continue paying for as long as they can. They do that by making changes that they feel the population will enjoy. It's not evil to try and keep your costumer base happy so that you will make money, it's a business.

If you're going to post at least TRY to offer something to the thread, instead of sarcastically increasing your post count while being incredibly rude.

Anyways, when I said Valve I wasn't talking about Steam. I was talking about the fact that they make a quality, finished game. (Still waiting for that PvP, Diablo)

Originally Posted by Lighto73

Valve isn't making an MMO that needs to keep the customer interested month to month. Valve makes games that you play through once. They don't change the games (much) due to customer feedback because they don't need to keep your attention after the first purchase.

That is the differnce, for Valve to make money, they need to make a product people will enjoy enough to pay for once, WoW has to get people to continue paying for as long as they can. They do that by making changes that they feel the population will enjoy. It's not evil to try and keep your costumer base happy so that you will make money, it's a business.

You couldn't be more wrong. Team Fortress 2, a FTP Valve game, has updates adding new content at a fairly regular pace. They even made a level editor for Portal 2.

Although I really love BC's raids but imo Outland is the worst leveling world ever. I freaking hate HF.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 08:57 PM ----------

What Blizzard did sacrifice? Could you be more specific?

Oh, how about every single boss encounter they have created in the past few years for starters.

Here you have a group of people who probably spend the majority of time at blizz HQ developing, testing, and polishing fights specifically to be a challenge to a specific tier / gear set for that period of fleeting time in the games life.

It could be the most beautifully designed boss fight ever created in a game ever, in the HISTORY of foreverness that would forever be unmatched. The kind of boss you kill the first time and waves of euphoria wash over you because it was so fucking well tuned that before this moment your group has only managed to get him down to the last remaining %'s of his health before everyone just ran out of fuel and got wiped.

All that would be pushed aside the next week because blizzard has graph's and pie chart's that show only xx% of people have seen xx% encounter and only xx% of people have beaten it.

So take all that hard work, all that good polish, all that good GAMEPLAY, (all that integrity) and flush it down the shitter...because we need at least yy% of people to beat this boss before we meet our arbitrary quota.

Blizzard has been balancing this game like a forumla, with graph's and chart's and how many people beat what, instead of balancing the game on the merits of what is capable with the mechanics

Its just your biased opinion that hellfire is a bad zone. I quite enjoy leveling through the zone, as it is lore intensive. Its a nicely designed zone too. Its got that stark reddish landscape that really makes it feel alien and near to space. The sky looks amazing there too.

Blades edge isnt a bad zone either. It is varied and each little pocket is a new area with different and interesting quests. I admit, it was a pain to level through it during TBC when you didnt have flying until 70, but now that you can fly at 60, it makes the zone super fun. Try leveling there next time you are level 65ish, its not bad at all.