Things hotting up with Turkey

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LE

Just seen some footage from at or near the Turkish/Greek border, jeez, all these people with basically nothing to do all day, yet the camp they live in is an absolute shitheap. Can’t they keep the place clean and tidy?
I mean, they doing fùck all else!

LE

Eventually most of these refugees will have to return home. The subject has just become too toxic in Europe with parties like the AFD growing all the time. The whole subject of refugees, undocumented migrants, etc has been allowed to drift for the last twenty years.

When they arrived in Italy, the Italiens didn't bother as the refugees didn't want to stay in Italy and were pointed to the border with France (with free train tickets provided by the Italiens) The French weren't bothered as they wanted to go to England and pointed them in the direction of Calais.

Since 2015 positions have hardened and it is electorial sucide for any country to welcome refugees or economic migrants from third world countries. Even Sweden the so called Human Rights superpower. The EU elite are in a state of inertia, they can see what is happening, but don't have the moral courage to take the decisions necesssary.

Victor Orban, like it or not, saved Merkels Arrse when he built his wall in 2015. Walls wont stop them the lefties cried.
Well it stoped 99% of them. Now countries on the outer edges of the EU empire like Italy or Greece are stuck with the ones they have got. Other countries are not going to take them. Turkey is going to be in the same position.

LE

Old-Salt

Eventually most of these refugees will have to return home. The subject has just become too toxic in Europe with parties like the AFD growing all the time. The whole subject of refugees, undocumented migrants, etc has been allowed to drift for the last twenty years.

When they arrived in Italy, the Italiens didn't bother as the refugees didn't want to stay in Italy and were pointed to the border with France (with free train tickets provided by the Italiens) The French weren't bothered as they wanted to go to England and pointed them in the direction of Calais.

Since 2015 positions have hardened and it is electorial sucide for any country to welcome refugees or economic migrants from third world countries. Even Sweden the so called Human Rights superpower. The EU elite are in a state of inertia, they can see what is happening, but don't have the moral courage to take the decisions necesssary.

Victor Orban, like it or not, saved Merkels Arrse when he built his wall in 2015. Walls wont stop them the lefties cried.
Well it stoped 99% of them. Now countries on the outer edges of the EU empire like Italy or Greece are stuck with the ones they have got. Other countries are not going to take them. Turkey is going to be in the same position.

For a start, refugeees are humans- running away from a war usually- as would you. So let's leave them out of it- and look at who is causing them to leave their homes with nothing but the clothes on their back?

Economic migrants are different but so what? What would you do? Stay in a shit-hole or travel thousands of miles being ripped off by traffickers, left to drown, beaten by Italian coast-guards....

It's tough, because letting thousands of non-white Muslim immigrants changes our culture....yet we sell the weapons that destroyed their houses, or we found it politically convenient to rob their countries of resources....none of it is fair...

It's not "Leftie" to have compassion. It's normal. Yes there is a huge cultural divide and we can't just open the borders. What we CAN do is stop the wars and war crimes that make these people risk death just to get to Italy....

"undocumented migrants"? What documents would you like them to remember to dig out of the rubble of their house? Their last gas bill?

You'd do the same, so don't blame them..... if anything it's quite an extraordinary NAVEX they embark on.

Oh and Turkey has used the threat of unleashing refugees on the EU for years- while they massacre our allies.

England is a shithole and these poor people are told it's paradise....

Old-Salt

A good post, I'd like to add to if I may...
What Turkey calls "refugees" are in fact ethnic minority groups who have no recognised state but are within Turkey's borders. Turkey is as good as gone from NATO after the purchase of the Rus air def system and saying "**** you" to Trump over the F35. So Turkey will form part of a regional power run by Moscow, encompassing Syria, northern Iraq and other bits of contested war-torn sites of human rights violations and crimes against humanity (chemichal weapons use)...

So really Turkey is full of shit- it's like Dorset saying there are 300 Cornish refugees living there... and the ones who are fleeing for their lives from Russian bombs or Syrian chlorine are just people like you and me. Using them as political threats is disgusting. Erdogan wants the Kurds wiped out, the ones who helped us FIVE times in the last twenty years against ISIS, Hussain...Juhadis... and we leave them to be massacred by Turkish tanks.

F*ck turkey. Savages- all the journalists are in jail, the coup was staged as a pretext for total power... backed by guess who? Putin and the FSB.

What a mess. The first time that chlorine hit the deck, NATO should have mobilised to re-draw the red line. Now every c*nt with a bit of gas knows the West is weak. Whatever- it sure isn't the fault of the refugees.

LE

Hahahahahahahahahahaha........................................no; it was it was an illegitimate and very amateurist power-grab by disaffected Kemalist Army Officers (Erdogan had made it clear that he was going to sack 1400 Colonels in August 2016) and by Entryist Gulenists who had penetrated the system and placed Islamists in positions of responsibility. Of course, until about 2013 Fetullah Gulen and Erdogan were best political buddies until he uncovered previous evidence of coup attempts such as 'Sledgehammer' (2010).

The Russians, the Americans and everybody else was shocked by the sudden and brutal events of 15/16 July 2016.

LE

Was watching live footage yesterday on one channel, they were scanning the waves of fighting age males for a good 30 seconds until they saw one dude holding a child, ran over and stuck the camera in it's face. He probably stole it off some future Big Issue seller just so he could jump the queue.

Old-Salt

Hahahahahahahahahahaha........................................no; it was it was an illegitimate and very amateurist power-grab by disaffected Kemalist Army Officers (Erdogan had made it clear that he was going to sack 1400 Colonels in August 2016) and by Entryist Gulenists who had penetrated the system and placed Islamists in positions of responsibility. Of course, until about 2013 Fetullah Gulen and Erdogan were best political buddies until he uncovered previous evidence of coup attempts such as 'Sledgehammer' (2010).

The Russians, the Americans and everybody else was shocked by the sudden and brutal events of 15/16 July 2016.

It was set up- "Entryist Gulenists who had penetrated the system and placed Islamists in positions of responsibility"?
Where did you get that from? Erdogan is ruthless and geo-politically has chosen to move into Russia's sphere of influence, while trying to act as a broker between the EU, the USA and Moscow... and the wider Middle East.

You say it was an amateur power grab- funny then, that the response from Erdogan has been so brutal and is now de-facto dictator. Always ask- who benefitted? The answer to that is usually the same as "who started it?"

LE

It was set up- "Entryist Gulenists who had penetrated the system and placed Islamists in positions of responsibility"?
Where did you get that from? Erdogan is ruthless and geo-politically has chosen to move into Russia's sphere of influence, while trying to act as a broker between the EU, the USA and Moscow... and the wider Middle East.

You say it was an amateur power grab- funny then, that the response from Erdogan has been so brutal and is now de-facto dictator. Always ask- who benefitted? The answer to that is usually the same as "who started it?"

I was in a role for a number of years that covered the region - and Turkey - very closely until the end of 2016. I made this assessment based on hard facts and observations from colleagues in our Embassy in Ankara (including a stream of near-real time material from a well-known ex Arrser) as well as daily discussions with like-minded Allies in-country, so please excuse me for not believing your bat-$h!t crazy theories. Where are they derived from? Pravda? Greek-Cypriot newspapers?*

As I have pointed out before, Erdogn is not a dictator (don't worry, I'm no fan of his) but he has been successively democratically elected since being Mayor of Istanbul in the late 1990s. The run-up to General and Presidential elections hasn't always been even-handed, but he has brought prosperity to the working class across Turkey (his own background) rather than being the typical, secular, Western-oriented elite who have ruled since the days of Ataturk in the 1920s. However, as the last lot of elections have showed, his ruling AKP has lost most metropolitan and coastal areas to the CHP (Republican Peoples' Party) who have, unfortunately, yet to field a suitable presidential candidate.

*you forgot to add a common conspiracy theory at the time that 'England' had 20,000 troops pre-positions in Cyprus to seize key points and avenge the defeat of Gallipoli...

The State Department clarifies its special envoy's remarks that the United States would be supplying ammunition to Turkey — which has been engaged in battle in Idlib, Syria — saying only that the United States is considering Turkish requests for assistance.

www.al-monitor.com

Well it seems like DC is doing it's best to cut those strings as quickly as possible.

LE

Ok, described to me the mechanism to expel an ally from the Alliance - an ally that controls entry to the Black Sea and to two other NATO allies - Romania and Bulgaria, and regularly used the UK (see last year's programme on HMS Duncan in the Black Sea).