Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. Every crazy, weird and wacky quote is straight from the pens of Armstrongite leaders or members who think they possess some insight into God and the Bible. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!

Wednesday, November 9, 2016

Has there ever been a more fractured church group on earth that has had more leaders claiming God personally speaks to them than in the Churches of God? After God made that first fatal phone call to Herbert Armstrong and revealed things lost for 1,900 years we have advanced to the various current lairs in the church...Thiel, Malm, Pack, Weinland, Flurry, Meredith, et al. Nothing any of these little men has ever predicted has ever come to pass. That leads us to out latest COG liar, Alton Bilingsley.Billingsley wrote in the July/August Philadelphia Remant Magazine the following about Hillary Clinton:

The Next President—By studying prophecy in view of the news, God has made known to me who will be the new president. He also has made known how much time is left before the Great Tribulation and the demise of this nation and the nations of Israel. If you are interested in knowing whether I am right or wrong, please read my article, entitled “Historical Duality Reveals the Future”

In September I posted about how Bilingsley also made it known his god told him that Hillary Clinton would be shot while in office, during her second term.

Church of God Faithful Flock“What Are Your Plans for the Next Six Years?” asks CGFF Pastor Don Billingsley, a Church of God elder since the 1950s, in Historical Reality Reveals the Future - as he shows (?) that Biblical history and prophecy point to President Hillary Clinton being executed in 2023, when God’s Elect will flee to the Place of Safety and the Great Tribulation will then begin.

This will all happen soon after the remnant Church of God folk trot off to Petra for 3 1/2 years of domestic unified bliss.

Just before famine and the diseases reaches {sic} their most severe point in 2023, Hillary’s sixth year, God’s elect will flee to the first part of their departure to the Place of Safety (cf. Revelation 18:4-5; Jeremiah 51:50). (Billingsley A. Historical Duality Reveals the Future. Philadelphia Remnant, July-August 2016, p. 13)

All of these Church of God false prophets and liars need to drop the word "God" from their church title and call themselves what they actually are, The Church of Liars.

God speaks only through the Bible. If he speaks at all it would be revelation and scripture. Since the bible itself says you can't add to it and since Christ is the end of prophets/apostles there is no more prophecy or revelation.These men are insane and phony.As it says, in times past God spoke to us in sundry ways like prophets, etc but in the latter times he spoke through Jesus Christ. That is it.

It may be that Deuteronomy may sanction burning at the stake, since there are no specifics to "the false prophet shall be put to death" and while stoning is given for most offenses, one or two involve burning.

Nevertheless, these Armstrongists are so worthless that perhaps we should just let it go, since according to Revelation, they will be burned up in the Lake of Fire.

In any event, these useless pastards go right on with their obnoxious stupidity because they don't seem to be suffering any consequences for breaking God's Law, leaving us to believe that undercover they are actually unbelievers who are atheists.

It must be nice to be able to break God's Law with no consequences, but then, they have established themselves as Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets (when they are nothing of the sort -- making them liars and deceivers in the pattern of Satan the Devil, transforming themselves into angels of light -- while actually bringing black thick darkness from the well of the depths of their corrupt souls).

Senior Citizen, today, Christians in just about every denomination experience God communicating to them by means of the holy spirit. Christ's death means everyone has direct access to God in prayer, including the making of petitions.Back to the drawing board and your mis interpretation of the bible for you.

Prophecies in the form of imminent disaster has been one of the core marketing tools of the COGs. It's made to look justified by misinterpretation of the instruction to "watch". And watch certainly doesn't mean "watch the Germans" and watch doesn't mean speculate.

The problem for people who drink the Kool Aid of a philosophy, and feel compelled to prophesy in accordance with that philosophy, is that what they offer stands or falls based on the merits of the philosophy itself. In the case of Armstrongism, the philosophy is so rigid as to demand prescribed opinions, and to be inflexible in accommodating unforeseen change or deviation. Hence, in many cases, it can only appear as ridiculous. Unfortunately, that never seems to make certain ones pump the brake pedal when the yellow or red lights are obviously on.

Hoss, imminent disasters have been much more than a marketing tool. They were and are used to beat members down by terrorizing them. The result was members tolerating appalling mistreatment at the hands of ministers. These ministers deserve to be strung up by the nearest lamp posts. Then and only then should they be forgiven to appease Dennis 'the forgiver' Diehl.

6.33PM. the Catholic typically burnt people after putting them to death first. But if the really offended the church, they were burnt whilst still alive. Revelation doesn't say whether people will be dead or alive when they are thrown into the lake of fire. I assume they will be dead already.

That was my point. Parables such as the Ten Virgins were about being prepared because you don't know when these things will happen. It seems to have been turned on its head and effort put into speculating when the end would come.

That fits in with observations of members in my WCG days. I don't think I was with a bad crowd, but it seemed like some wanted to know when something became a sin, almost as if they wanted to come as close as possible to a sinful activity yet not sin. Then some COGleaders believe they're above the law, so it doesn't matter what they do.

Anon 9:17 Yes, a pity. The I think that was the only Hollywood role that suited him. I hope he was 'watching' and not looking for Germans.

Anon 9:31 Of course! Fear in any form is a powerful motivator for all manners of ills...

Don't these people have any sense of shame? It is presumptuous to state that God told you something, when in fact, He didn't. Getting a thought in your head does not mean that God is telling you something. He may very well be doing so, but it is highly unlikely. One should watch for concrete proof rather than jumping high and yelling that God is speaking to you.

It is obvious that these are not testing the spirits. Just how much egg on the face does someone need before they come to their senses? Don't they know that they are looking like fools? Don't they know that they are driving others away by their foolish yapping?

I know that the economy is bad, but do you need to create a church in order to obtain an income? Can't you think of a honest way of making a living? Don't you realize that Elohim is real and that you will suffer eventually for your actions?

Sshhhussh. We have people here who believe that God confirms through thoughts during their prayers that British Israelism is right, and that the economies of the English-speaking melting pot nations will soon collapse, and the citizens enslaved.

4.16 AM Christians are led by the holy spirit. So yes, God speaks to people. Do you think God lacks the power to do so? This is what happens when people wont put away their drugs, and refuse to keep it in their pants. The result is that God doesn't answer their prayers, and they then begin to accuse those whose prayers are being answered of having 'egg on their face' or 'foolish yapping.' God does not play favorites. Do the right thing and God will answer.If God refuses to answer, well as they say, 'if you play, you pay.'

Yes BB, you have it spot on. It will shortly come to pass. Repeating the truth in your own words:

"Sshhhussh. We have people here who believe that God confirms through thoughts during their prayers that British Israelism is right, and that the economies of the English-speaking melting pot nations will soon collapse, and the citizens enslaved."

PS, I'II say it now rather than in the future:TOLD YOU SO.PSS I'II say it again when it happens as well.

Good luck with that, 8:29. I once felt that 1972, 1975 and the Germans had been similarly confirmed, but that turned out to be a bad case of Armstrongian sleight of hand, subversionary or diversionary thinking caused by falsely prophetic brainwashing. Based my whole existence on it. Powerful stuff! I've since learned that verifiable action, physical results are the answer to prayer, not warm fuzzy feelings. But, go ahead and believe whatever you need to. Life and time ultimately end up correcting each and every one of us. It's just sad to realize that someone else's life is being spoiled by delusion, 40 years after the "fact".

"Time is Running Out—Based on what is made known by the news media, coupled with the end-time prophecies, it should be realized the handwriting is on the wallfor this nation, and the end of it is now very close as it was for Belshazzar King of Babylon (Daniel 5:1-31)! Prophecy reveals super-power America will be conquered by the Revived Holy Roman Empire, as was the impregnable Babylonian Empire by the Medio-Persian Empire. Once Queen Athaliah becomes the new president, little precious time will be left, probably no more than six short years, as it was for that evil queen (II Kings 11:1-3)."

So not only will Hillary Clinton be elected as President of the United States, she will be in the spirit of Queen Athaliah.

Oh, darn.

I was hoping he'd call her Jezebel.

Well, there isn't much of a chance for Athaliah to become President now, is there?

BB you seem to have fused Armstrongism and God in your mind. They are two separate things. God in all His majesty is there irreguardless of what any humans do. Many people were greatly harmed by Herbies (not from God) 1975 date setting. That's a separate and complex issue. But I believe that the majority who gave up on God after that fiasco, did so because of the reality that Christianity is a marathon and not a sprint. It takes decades of hard effort to build the mind of God. Just a few years a church attendance doesn't cut it.There's no getting rich quick financially or spiritually. That's basic reality 101. That is why most have stumbled, and continue to stumble spiritually.

Herbie has probably robbed some or many of their eternal lives with his 1975 (not from God) game playing.

God had nothing to do with Herbie and his conspiracy theory-based religion, 7:07. As a false prophet, HWA was the human equivalent of excrement. HWA and his toxic myrmidons created more atheists and agnostics than any other religious "teachers" that I'm aware of.

Fortunately, about ten years ago, as a result of Jesus Christ rescuing my son from being a hopeless career criminal, I was forced to re-examine my unbelief, and believe me, it wasn't a pretty process. I studied numerous versions of the Bible, cover to cover, read the works of Josephus, Eusebius, and the Antenicene Fathers, Bob George's "Classic Christianity", books by N.T. Wright, Dr. Charles Stanley, Joel Osteen, and others, and came to a completely different understanding of law and grace, New Covenant vs Old Covenant, and the fruits that Christianity produces.

I don't preach here like I did a number of years ago, because it steels peoples' minds against God, and can actually set them back. I keep it light, and humorous where possible. But, I am a studying and praying, practicing Christian, a business owner who runs his business by the Golden Rule, and maintain a personal ministry that involves free repair of the equipment that mainstream Christian churches use to publish the gospel.

God does not validate the failed false prophecies of the Armstrongs during your personal prayers. While it sounds "spiritual", that is not consistent with His character or methodology. Only your imagination and wishful thinking does that. You can read your own Bible which actually disproves British Israelism (see the excellent papers on that topic at Painful Truth and in the archives at Silenced).

I do agree that decades of Christian living builds Godly character, but we also know that God often allows his children to learn from a lifestyle of their own carnal experiences and then to make a U-turn (parable of the prodigal son) and He pays the same wage to those who are hired late in the day as He does to those who began at daybreak (parable of the workers). As humans, we struggle inescapably against our emotions and wrong appetites our entire lifetimes as St. Paul outlined until we are transformed upon resurrection, receiving the mind of Father God and Jesus Christ. Our minds are fallible until that time. It is possible to teach and practice the first of the Two Great Commandments of the Lord to the extreme exemplified by the Pharisees, and in a way that blinds, blocks, and invalidates the keeping of the second of the Two Great Commandments of the Lord. Jesus taught his followers to keep both of those commandments, in a balanced way, a way in which they compliment each other.

One more thought. We Christians who were once part of Armstrongism, and might have also logged some cleansing time as agnostics or atheists can't even discuss God without mentioning and differenting between the Armstrong teachings and our new understanding. When I discuss matters of faith with other Christians, I may mention having been raised in a toxic cult if that's appropriate to the discussion, but usually What HWA taught us is so counter to Christianity and even Judaism, that I just leave sleeping dogs lie. Just like I would never list Embarrassing College on my resume {;-)~

Byker Bob writes, "HWA and his toxic myrmidons created more atheists and agnostics than any other religious "teachers" that I'm aware of."

Bob, that viewpoint seems a bit myopic to me.Clearly, you hate armstrongism, as if evidenced by your self-described ABA(anything but armstrongism) approach.

Does your viewpoint stem from the fact that you're still unable to forgive your parents?

Just to name one of MANY kooky religions who have had people leave of their own accord- and now their ex-members are sometimes "atheists and agnostics".... 'the Mormons'.

There are many others, too, Bob.

I have no qualms with anyone- including Gary, Gavin, Pam and others- who have focused on showing that what HWA taught was detrimental to the best interests of his church's members.

However, when I see someone contend that the WCG was the 'very worst of the worst' within the whole wild world of religion, it makes me think that some personal issues are afoot.

I remember you stating that not only did the WCG cause some people to become atheists, but that they were the VERY WORST type of atheists.I can't help but think that viewpoint derives from your unresolved internal anger and issues, and is contingent on your current state of beliefs.

BB I believe God used Herbie to warn of a coming WW3. He was a modern day Balaam, which is why I call him Herbert Balsam Armstrong. And like Balaam, he was lawless.God once showed me a out of focus glimpse of a vast horde of Americas being herded up into slavery. They were all closely packed together like cattle. It was like something out of a apocalyptic movie. Part of the glimpse and miracle was the knowledge that they were being rounded up in to slavery, in case you were wandering. So Herbie did have some things right.If you read the account of the prodigal son, the father tells the faithful son that all the fathers possessions belong to him. So the fathers third goes to the 'good' son. Meaning, people who persevere longer, get a better reward in the judgment. This is everyday life anyway. The same wage you refer to only applies to the gift of eternal life.

I have no internal anger. Calm as a cucumber. I forgave my parents years ago, and hope they have forgiven me, because I, too did some offensive and mean spirited things. But there is something vital you are missing that makes all the difference in the world. Forgiving, and having a close personal relationship with people are two completely different things. It's not a matter of "if A, then B" And it is especially complicated when relatives still believe in and practice the thing that caused all of the problems in the first place. You are kidding yourself if you believe that you can have a close or familial type relationship with ACOG members without actually returning to being an ACOG member yourself, in fact not just an ACOG member, but a member in good standing in their specific splinter. Read all of the testimonies here and at ESN from the people who regularly leave the church, and are dismayed and horrified that none of their "friends" will talk to them!

Yes, I am ABA! Yes, I do believe that Armstrongism is just as bad as radical Islam, which is why many of us worry and comment about a future Jonestown-like meltdown. And, yes, although there are some fine, reasonable Science-atheists in the general population, rabidity is not present because they did not become atheists following spiritual rape. I've encountered quite a number of rabid evangelical antitheists during my years on the dissident internet.

If you believe these statements that I've just made are false, don't stone the reporter, prove me wrong! Problem is, you can't, because evidence to the contrary is constantly present, and the topic of ongoing discussion.

Christian, atheist, whatever. You've got to use common sense, get out away from the fringe extremes, and find equilibrium somewhere near the balance point between the opposing poles.

Who needed Herbie to warn of WW-III? So long as there are humans composing nations who have counter-purposes, and rogue nations who savagly reject civilized behavior, war is inevitable.

Herbie didn't warn the world about WW-III so much as he exploited that concept to scare people into his church ostensibly for protection, then he trapped and exploited them while living like royalty. Not terribly magnanimous! More like all about self. If God had actually used him as an end times Elijah, WW-III would have happened in 1972, as HWA et al had caused so many of us to grow up believing. I envy the people who were only lied to as children about Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. No nightmares.

One more thing. Leave the Mormons off your list of bad religions that cause atheism. I'm not LDS, but will be once again enjoying Thanksgiving dinner with a Mormon bishop and wife and extended family. Some of his kids are no longer part of the LDS church, but they will all be present. We always have a great time together!

I don't know if I'm responding to one Anonymous or more. But, I understand from the parable of the talents that your reward is based on how effective a steward you are with the blessings and talents that God gives you. The prodigal son, by the way, ended getting more than his third, because he squandered the first third. The lesson of the parable of the workers is that it's up to God how He decides to reward people. Sometimes the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

BB The father of the prodigal son told the faithful son in Luke 15.31, 'all that I have is thine.' So it cannot be that much over a third since the faithful son gets all the fathers inheritance on his death. Bad choices have consequences. If you play, you pay.

We all extract things that are highly personalized from what we read and experience. A parable doesn't necessarily have to be one same black and white message for every person that reads it. What you have gleaned from the story or parable is most likely what you need for the nourishment of your soul, and as such, is totally valid. Personally, size of reward or inheritance is not something I've ever really been overly concerned about for myself. I never aspired to be a king or priest, or even a wealthy individual. Being functional, and ethical, and having a reserve of strength from which to help others would be higher on my list of priorities. That often carries its own deeply fulfilling rewards right here and right now.

As a general rule, when you come on here to inform everyone that God has confirmed some detail of Armstrongism through your personal prayers, you automatically place yourself in the same category as Bob Thiel, David Pack, Gerald Flurry, or Rod Meredith. Though they are consistently wrong, I am sure that they also probably have what they feel is confirmation of what they think or preach. Yet because of persistent error over years or decades, that cannot be true. They are either mistaking confirmation bias for confirmation, or there is a deeper underlying problem that it may not be too good to think about.

BB, size of reward is everything. Society would stop going forward if people didn't want more. I like the fact for instance, of smart phones getting better and cheaper. Christ said 'I come that you may have life and have is more abundantly,' God wants us to thrive, not just settle on some level. When two of Christs disciples wanted the two top positions in the kingdom, Christ did not condemn them for that desire. We all want more, it is in our DNA. So I find your claim questionable. You have on many occasions told of personal experiences on this blog. If others express their experiences, which confirms Gods existence and certain truths, you accuse them of being some sliver leader. That's a cheap shot. Answered prayer is a common experience of Christians in many different (including non Armstrong) denominations. The coming destruction of the Anglo Saxons is hardly a Armstrong 'detail.' Obviously God confirmed this to keep me motivated in my Christian life. You should value people who challenge the sometimes group think on this site. Truth isn't determined by majority vote.

I'm going to stop responding after this. You can have the opportunity for the last input, and the other readers and participants (jury) can make their various evaluations. Obviously different things motivate you than tend to motivate me.

What has motivated me throughout my lifetime has been being able to apply my intuitions and talents to keeping the electro-mechanical devices which people use to create the wealth which feeds themselves, their families, and their employees repaired and running. Ever-evolving technology has provided a highly stimulating and never-ending challenge. I bring order to chaotic production situations, and impart job skills which allow people to be productive and fulfilled. My motivations are in no way related to a superstition that others will eventually suffer and die because of their racial or genetic heretage. Such a scenario is something that I would actively be working to prevent. My machines assist people of all backgrounds, colors, and creeds and improve their quality of life across the board. Personal anticipation of a reward that involves ruling over and/or manipulating others does not inspire or motivate me in any way. My reward has always simply been a job well done. In fact, it would not bother me in the least if there were no life after the physical lives which we are currently living. But, since there is, I would hope to be doing the things which I've learned to do in this life, only on an enhanced level, and without the glitches and strife that tend to detract. For most well intentioned, logically thinking people, motivations such as punishment and reward are unneccessary. Attaining and sustaining functionality is a sufficient primary.

"But, I am a studying and praying, practicing Christian, a business owner who runs his business by the Golden Rule, and maintain a personal ministry that involves free repair of the equipment that mainstream Christian churches use to publish the gospel."

It's total bullshit for anyone to claim that anyone should "Leave the Mormons off your list of bad religions that cause atheism."

There's a myriad of examples of people who were once 'believers', and are now atheist due to their Mormon experiences.

There are MANY more of them than those who were once in the WCG.

But I'll add that that there were always some nice people in the WCG, just as there are also nice Mormons today.

But I wonder how nicely things would go with your dinner, Byker Bob, if you brought up even one of the MANY of Joseph Smith's lies and deceptions during dinner.

Heck, even the Beach Boys had dinner with Charlie Manson, and ended up liking him and recording songs he wrote. Those cult-types (like Manson) can be both talented and charming, just like Mormons can be at the dinner table.

My sister-in-law is actually now dealing with "smooth salesmanship" Mormons selling their crap, and their parents and kids are trying to influence her high school kids.

BB, I hope you have a good time with your Mormon friends.But are they just a thin layer away from rejecting you? Maybe not very different than if you sat down with your parents for dinner?

(Of course, I realize there's less baggage to deal with when you're dealing with the Mormons, as opposed to dealing with your parents.)

There are apparently numerous gay sons and daughters of LDS members who are officially ostracized by their church and families, but that's done in a lot of churches. A Christian lady I dated for a while threw her daughter and daughter's best friend out of the house because she heard them getting each other off in the middle of the night. As we know, kicking them out did not and could not change the orientation they were born with.

Also, there is the Fundamentalist LDS Church (Warren Jeffs' group), polygamists, totally illegal and non-mainstream, in which a lot of really bad stuff happens. But, those are not your typical every day Mormon people. You have to remember, Mormons are the people who are so concerned for fellow man that they research genealogies and get baptized by proxy for other people. And, most of them don't wear their religion on their shirt sleeves. One customer and I used to stream and listen to "Coast to Coast" (George Noory) while I repaired his equipment. Try to do that with some ACOG brethren, and you'd most likely get a lecture on demons!

I have no plans to become Mormon, but I greatly respect the ones I've gotten to know. Same with Seventh Day Adventists. You may not believe this, but religious beliefs can be a very positive aspect to peoples' lives. We've just been exposed to some really nasty and toxic fanaticism through Armstrongism.

Oh, by the way. Charlie also threatened and scared Dennis, and one of the cult members demolished one of his exotic sportscars. Also there was a really bad dose of the clap infecting pretty much the entire family. On a night out on the Sunset Strip, Charlie pretty much caused the Whisky to be evacuated due to his weird and spooky dancing. Apparently he was mercurial, very personable on some occasions, and real scary on others. You can't compare a Mormon family with the Manson family.

Byker Bob, I agree that being a Mormon would be better than being a member of the Manson Family!

You wrote, "...most of them[Mormons] don't wear their religion on their shirt sleeves."

Since nearly all Mormon member youths- in their late teens or early 20's- become missionaries of the Mormon Church for two years in the effort of converting others to Mormonism, that's clearly wearing "their religion on their shirt sleeves"

What they encounter gives them insight and helps tweak their approach to a milder and more effective approach as they grow older.

Drawing someone into a cult requires some finesse, and seasoned Mormons have lessons learned under their belt from their days as missionaries (and beyond) in their continuance of reaching that goal.

Do I worry that they'll "convert" you? No.Do I think that trying to "convert" you is on their minds? Absolutely.

They'll use every trick up their sleeves, including humor, love bombing, instances of what Mormonism has done to improve their lives, playing to your ego, use of false comparisons, use of anecdotes, use of Biblical scriptures if/when appropriate, etc etc.

I agree that "religious beliefs can be a very positive aspect to peoples' lives", because I've seen how both conversion to Islam and conversion to Christianity within prison populations have had a positive effect on prisoners, including your son.

Hello Byker Bob,I forgot to include this relevant information in my previous post-My brother-in-law "found" and eventually joined the WCG because of a WCG prison outreach program while he was incarcerated for vehicular homicide.

Apparently, there are "ministries" who take advantage of people at their lives' "low points", going to prisons and such, in the hope of gaining new members for their cults.