Aye, you're right. But I _need_ that rule because I can't be sure of the height of those captions, so I just make them scrollable.

Suppose I should just live with it until Firefox fixes the bug. Does Mozilla do it, anyone?

Thanks Mark :)

mindlessLemming

09-30-2004, 11:10 PM

Mozilla 1.7: does the bug dance :(

liorean

09-30-2004, 11:24 PM

Moz1.7 and ff0.10 are kept unified, so it has to be a very specific bug for only one of them to exhibit it. Especially when it comes to rendering.

]|V|[agnus

09-30-2004, 11:33 PM

Class names that refer to colors or other visual renderings are bad juju, man...

There is a not-all-that-uncommon bug like this with IE. Perhaps finding some documentation of that well lead to a solution here?

AaronW

10-01-2004, 01:36 PM

Yeah, I noticed my class names yesterday and thought "Wait, what? Those should be .odd and .even." .blue and .beige were just the first things I wrote, and they stuck :S

As for documentation on the bug, I'm not sure exactly what to look for. Sure it's caused when the elements have overflow: auto on, but it's only visible when something's :hover is activated. Will definately try finding something, though I have this feeling their won't be much for a solution. Doesn't really bother me, as Moz and FF users are the type to keep updated, and it's only happening on one page.

(Perhaps this is new-thread-worthy, but why does CSS even have a :hover property? A :focus property? Shouldn't all this be done with the DOM? Not that I'm complaining!)

liorean

10-01-2004, 01:40 PM

Oh, because there are powers in the CSS working group that want to extend it to non-processing behavior instead of just presentation. However, the pseudo elements do fill a niche that was necessary to be able to do all the styling that HTML needed. (Well, some are still missing, notably form controls, but in general...)

AaronW

10-01-2004, 02:35 PM

Yeah, I guess it doesn't really do any processing other than change styles when that event is called. Though I've no idea what IE's 'expression' property is fully capable of.

]|V|[agnus

10-01-2004, 10:17 PM

Heh, you've touched on an interesting topic, Aaron. I really like PPKs article on the subject: Seperating Behavior and Presentation (http://www.digital-web.com/articles/separating_behavior_and_presentation/)

It's an interesting situation because, as PPK points out in that article, CSS makes certain behavioral features very easy with a minimal amount of code so, one almost feels foolish to look away from that. Of course, as you cited, it's a violation of the seperation of those two layers.

Though... I must say, while the "hover" part of :hover obviously implies behavior, what it controls is still the presentation. You're not changing the document structure, you're not manipulating the UI or anything... you're changing a color or showing an element that was hidden, etc. So, I think it's like 75% presentation, 25% behavior... more than acceptable at this point.

As liorean mentioned, there are those that would have CSS containing even more power, processing and such. I have often desired to see such power within' it as well.

So, my thought: merge the two. You take presentation and behavior and you merge them into one layer apart from structure. It seems sound in theory.

AaronW

10-01-2004, 10:52 PM

They already are merged: document.object.style. I guess that's not really merged, but the DOM can access the CSS, and I guess :hover is CSS's way of accessing the DOM?

I don't think they should remove :hover, just found it odd that it's there and not separated. Since it only controls styles during certain events, it's probably even closer to 99% style. It's a selector that lets you select states of the object.

I guess technically if someone were really crazy about the behaviour/presentation/content layer separation, they could very well write their own DOM script to emulate it, and boycott the use of :hover and :active in favour of onmouseover and onfocus, etc.

]|V|[agnus

10-01-2004, 10:55 PM

They already are merged: document.object.style. I guess that's not really merged, but the DOM can access the CSS, and I guess :hover is CSS's way of accessing the DOM?

Hahaha... you just outlined how they are in fact NOT merged: THEY ARE TWO SEPERATE LANGUAGES, separate layers. I understand what you're saying, but it is not applicable to what I was talking about and advocating.

I don't think they should remove :hover

Who does??

gohankid77

10-01-2004, 11:36 PM

For beginning coders (who will have no idea what the DOM is or that it even exists), the presence of the :hover dynamic pseudo-class will almost be a necessity to learn more. I think all of the dynamic pseudo-classes (:hover, :active, and :focus) should remain intact.

ReadMe.txt

10-02-2004, 12:31 AM

Yeah, I noticed my class names yesterday and thought "Wait, what? Those should be .odd and .even." .blue and .beige were just the first things I wrote, and they stuck :S

You what?!? I pointed that out about a month ago! :o

AaronW

10-02-2004, 01:11 AM

I don't remember us discussing that :S

But I did realize it the other day. I'd have changed it had you mentioned it that early on (or had I heard you mention it).