Sign up today for Post Pro Picks, The Post's free, weekly NFL pick 'em game, where you can win great prizes, form groups to play against your friends, see how you fare against our experts or just play for fun. Register at http://washingtonpost.com/pro-picks

Those 14 teams are definitely worse off than we are, taking the long view, because the Skins have been to five Super Bowls and won thrice. (I just like to repeat that every once in a while to remind us that things have not always sucked as much as they have recently.)

*****

Moving on... then you have the five former SB winners whose most recent titles came before the Redskins' most recent title. As you might guess, my argument is that you can at least make the case that the fans of these franchises have been suffering longer if not harder than the fans of the maroon and burgundy:

F the Cowboys twice, F the Giants, F Kurt Warner, F the Ravens, F the Patriots, F Norv, F Roger Gooddell, F Duke, F the Penguins, F Georgia AND Georgia Tech, F Mark Cuban, F the NFL for not streaming games live on the internet in the US of America, F Dan Snyder, F Vinny Cerrato twice, F Larry Michael, F having been spoiled by winning three titles in nine years... and F not having won a Super Bowl since January freakin' 1992.

Nate, that analysis is quite possibly one of the best posts I have seen. Your point is well-made -- we don't have much to complain about. I have come to that conclusion myself recently. Sure, times have sucked since '91, and I am tired of having a team that wins 6-10 games on a yearly basis. I have come to tell friends that the Redskins are just not good enough to do any damage, and not sorry enough to keep you from getting your hopes up. But getting back on topic, I have come to realize in the 11 years since I have moved away from the DC area that we have it pretty good. I have witnessed the 'Skins win 3 championships in my lifetime. My dad rooted for the team in the 40's through early 70's when the team accomplished squat. Other fans' franchises have not fared so well over the last 30 years and would love to have had our runs. We were just spoiled with one of the greatest eras in NFL history.

Now granted, with the Cards going to the Super Bowl, my patience is beginning to run out. If the Lions make it to the Super Bowl before the 'Skins get back, then I think we will have every right to curse and complain!

"Nate, that analysis is quite possibly one of the best posts I have seen."

Thanks, jwlemons. You're too kind... really.

It HAS been painful watching a series of teams that have stunk in recent memory -- really, really stunk, like the Pats and the Pack and the Colts and the Bucs -- win in the past decade or so. And it really stung to see the nearby Ravens win one. And of course the Gints won, the Niners won, (I remember hating them almost as much as Dallas, not so long ago) and the freakin' Cowboys won three freakin' times since our last title, which hurts the worst of all.

Just helps me cope to remember that there are those nineteen or twenty teams that, by a reasonable measure, are "worse off" than the Skins.

ben, do your numbers account for the difference in cap hits when cutting those dudes before the magical cutoff date (June 1 or whatever), before which you take the full hit on the '09 cap and after which the hit is spread across the '09 and '10 caps?

That cutover usually trips me up when trying to make sense of the possible scenarios... and there's no shortage of scenarios with as many older dudes with backloaded contracts and less than spectacular recent performance on this roster. (*sigh*)

Though I guess it's kind of cruel to cut a respected veteran later because it hamstrings his opportunity to find the best possible alternative...

I awarded myself 100 (C) RI bonus points for getting Cindy's Roman numeral joke in the title of this post... but then subtracted one hundred (C) bonus points for not getting it until about the fifth time I read it. So I came out even.

Ah, Cindy. I was going to make a snarky comment about how dopey/pompous the Super Bowl Roman numerals are, and here you stole my thunder with that sweet, subtle little move.

p1funk, I wholeheartedly agree with the disdain for LeBron. F LeBron, even if he shares my birthday. (Tiger Woods also shares my birthday, but I actually respect him since he's, you know, a champion and all. Unlike LeBron.)

I don't watch as much football on the teevee as I used to, but I remember being really disappointed when Troy and Moose got their teevee gigs and didn't suck. Like, I wanted them to be horrible, and they were better than horrible. Not great by any means, but better than a lot of dudes out there.

Though I concede they're part of the bigger problem of ex-Cowboys proliferating the airwaves.. but it must be said that it's really just sour grapes when we complain about this, because the highest-profile ex-Redskin has been Joey T for a long time, and Riggo has never really broken through... we wish we had a bunch of beloved players from our championship teams on the teevee, but it just ain't so...

I was shocked by the length of Nate`s F list. I can see it from Cork, but Nate? First I was thinking that he`s not getting enough at home, then I remembered that George Bush has been President for 8 years (less one day) and then it seemed like a short F list, and a lot of people are on edge. Tempers are short.

This time next week no one will vow to F anyone. We will all disagree without being disagreeable. Except Cork, or course.

Two former low cost Skins teammates the FO didn't think were worth the money who, unlike the people brought in to replace them with better pay, will have Supa Bowl memories to dog them into retirement.

Ryan Clark left DC with the taste of Sean Taylor's funeral in his mouth and the FO's tight-fisted, money grubbing knife in his back.

The FO felt it could do better with Arch Deluxe--it did, he was an expensive, dumb FA addition who continued to prove that Fantasy Football work's best under the cover of a liberal newspaper's sports' blog.

And now Clark plays alongside the great Troy Palomalu for a championship and gets to thumb his nose at the Wizards of Redskins park the season after Pierce earned his own Super Bowl ring.

Remember: If you pay the young, hungry players you train up, their hard play is the reward for your respect.

Moe, I do miss Ryan Clark and wish he were still with us but Antonio Pierce?? Please!

If I remember correctly, he was undrafted (or drafted in the 6th or 7th round) and never saw the field until Gregg Williams gave him a chance. After one (?) good season with the Skins he gets an offer from us but turns it down to get more $$$ in NYC - unfortunately we could not offer him more due to our neverending salary cap issues. While I understand him going for the $$$$, I don't understand his constant bashing of our team when he would most likely still be bench warming if we had not given him a chance. It worked out well for him with the Giants winning the Super Bowl last season but then the egotistical jerk has to help Plaxico with his firearm problem. He's just stupid - and egotistical.

to boot, the Team made pierce a very reasonable offer to stay, which he turned and brought to the giants and asked them to beat that offer, which they did by 500k, so again, he was given a more than fair offer.

A funeral takes like barbeque does while watching the Cardinals win the NFC Championship game--good, but unsatisfying.

The factual analysis notwithstanding, I have read where several Redskins players have complained that the team treats lost-cost guys like they have the plague and is quick to lavish big contracts on or burn draft picks to get other teams' players.

Please explain where I'm wrong there.

And besides--with the Cardinals now reaching the Big Game, throwing stones at the Wizards of Redskins' Park is going to be Moe's warm up activity in the days before Spring Training.

The prospect of the Cardinals in the Super Bowl is frustrating as the snob in me believes the game's biggest stage should be reserved for the great, historical teams--like the stillers, 'boys, iggles, jints, 'niners, colts, raiders, vikings, bears...

The Cardinals offence played GREAT in the first half and it was a GREAT game plan. If they can put together another plan like that, why then, even the great Pittsburgh Steelers defense will be on their heels for, you know, a play or three. I can see Warner and Fitzgerald making some heroic throws and catches but in the end the Steelers defense will manhandle the Cardinals and as much as I like Kurt Warner, his old bones may not make it through the pounding that the Steelers will put on him. You think Matt Leinhart’s hot tub is popular now, just wait until he plays a quarter in the SB.

Our buddy Mike Freeman of CBS Sports had some choice words for Cardinals receiver Anquan Boldin, based on his behavior during Sunday’s NFC title game.

Freeman points out that, as the FOX cameras demonstrated, Boldin engaged in a fourth-quarter argument with offensive coordinator Todd Haley.

After the game, Boldin still had his panties in a bunch. Per Freeman, he abruptly left the field while his teammates were celebrating the victory, and then he abruptly left the locker room.

“I have to say in nearly 20 years of doing this, I’ve never seen a player more concerned about his arguing with a coach over making a Super Bowl,” Freeman writes. “What Boldin did almost never happens. Congratulations on making history, Anquan.”

It’ll be interesting to see what kind of legs this thing grows over the next two weeks.

And if it was part of Boldin’s plan to get out of town, it just might have worked.

Jansen considers last season to be one of his best, all things considered.

“I think any competitor’s going to look back at their season and say, ‘I wish I had done this or that better,’ ” he said. “But overall, I was extremely happy with how I was able to come in, get an opportunity and never really look back. I think I played as good of football as I have ever played.”

That said, the way things went down with his benching still mystifies him.

Said Jansen: “What happened at the beginning of the season was, and will always be, a question in my mind as to why it happened. But given the opportunity to get back in there again, I wanted to go in and say, ‘I am still the guy, I am still the right tackle and still one of the best that there is.’ And I think I was able to do that.”

taken from profootballweekly

Are you freaking kidding me? one of your best ever? Jon?!?!!? you've lost it, just sail away with a little dignity....

Not everyone was congratulating offensive coordinator Todd Haley on his play calling Sunday.

On the team's game-winning drive, the television broadcast showed receiver Anquan Boldin in a heated exchange with Haley.

Boldin declined comment about it after the game, and Haley called it "a heat of the moment" situation.

"We changed personnel groups out there and I put Steve Breaston in for (Boldin)," Haley said, "and he was upset about it."

Or maybe not --> "Wearing a lime-green shirt, Boldin tried to bolt for the stadium exit before a small group of media caught him. Someone asked if reaching the Super Bowl eases what has happened between him and the franchise.

"That's not an issue," Boldin said. "Like I told you guys at the beginning of the season, my main goal was to do this. I've come through with all of my promises. I fought. I gave my heart to this organization. It's paying off."

Does he want to stay in Arizona?

"Next question."

----------------

Not a big deal, imho; According to most NFL players I've seen/read interviewed on the subject, these things happen frequently in the heat of the game. I wonder how many screaming matches Jack Lambert had with an assistant coach during a game winning (or game losing) drive; or Ken Stabler, or Chuck Foreman, or Dan Pastorini, etc., etc., etc. I'm sure it occurred, but there wasn't the 24/7, microscopic dissection of sports back then that there is today.

The difference today is that cameras are EVERYWHERE, and each little dust-up turns into an opportunity for some writer like Mike Freeman to blow it up into something it isn't. It's all TMZ crap.

Is Boldin a jerk? Selfish? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know, but I wouldn't base my opinion of him solely on the exchange he had with Haley yesterday.

As For TV 'Skins, Mark May and Schlereth are quite astute (well, they're offensive lineman and HOGS to boot), and their analyses are more substantive than the game commentary of the Cowgirls on Sunday.

Once again I have to take aim at Snyderrato for not biting the bullet for a few years (4-12, 3-13) so as to build a long-term winner. They've been patching the dike with chewing gum and fingers for 10-12 years, but the structure has never been fixed. Losing to the teams the 'Skins did makes sense, especially the Ravens and Steelers; better organizations, deeper talent, hungry players. Is Joe Flacco or Ray Lewis 'tight' with the Ravens' owner as Portis and Snyder are 'tight' like that?
For personally selfish reasons I think Jason Campbell may end up somewhere else, simply because he shouldn't be wasting his talent on a team that needs a complete rebuild. This team won't be truly playoff competitive for 2-3 years; I would like to see JC here that long, but he would have 7 years in the league with nothing to show for it relative to his peers.

BG me too. I guess Boldin was always the man there until this year, and the team's success with him playing a lesser role is getting to him.

BG I know you like talking about the draft. From the East-West Shrune game this past week, this dude is on the rise.

Houston OT Sebastian Vollmer

As well as Hoyer performed, Vollmer arguably improved his stock more than any other prospect. He moved his feet well in pass protection and used his long arms to ride pass rushers past the pocket. There's also a lot to like about his potential. At 6-8 and 315 pounds, Vollmer has the frame to develop into a powerful drive blocker. In fact, Vollmer's performance this week could help make him an early second-day pick.

Nate, that analysis is quite possibly one of the best posts I have seen. Your point is well-made -- we don't have much to complain about. I have come to that conclusion myself recently...

Posted by: jwlemons | January 19, 2009 12:02 AM
============================================
We have plenty to complain about, lately. Consider the amount of money spent, the concurrent fan gouging by the franchise, the lack of results, and the current state of the team (about 5-7 good players, most of whom are so overpaid no team would ever dream of trading for them, a large number of older players who don't come close to justifying their current contracts, and a few youngsters we can hope will be stars.

Is it me or does anyone else dislike the new ESPN.com home page? I think I just fear change too much but it makes me feel uncomfortable and creeped out sorta like every time Mark Schlereth opens his mouth or looks into the camera.

I awarded myself 100 (C) RI bonus points for getting Cindy's Roman numeral joke in the title of this post

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 19, 2009 1:53 AM

It was a good start, but she missed the opportunity to really overdo it by putting the point spreads in Roman numerals. I`m picking the Steelers by X points. I hope that the scoreboard will also display the score in this fashion: Pittsburgh XXXI Arizona XXIV.

Not really sure Boldin is playing a "lesser role" for the Cardinals. In 4 fewer games than Fitzgerald, Boldin had only 7 fewer receptions and 1 fewer TD.

There's a big difference between being TO-like delusional and complaining about not being used when 20 passes are thrown in your direction, and Boldin getting upset when his offensive coordinator pulls him out of the game after it looked as though the Cardinals pulled one of the all-time great playoff collapses.

Boldin has done nothing but shut his mouth during the season and leave everything he has on the field. I have no problem with a player being fired up during a game, so long as it doesn't carry over after the game.

Boldin has done nothing but shut his mouth during the season and leave everything he has on the field. I have no problem with a player being fired up during a game, so long as it doesn't carry over after the game.

Posted by: psps23 | January 19, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Agreed, the guy was there before Fitz putting up big numbers, Fitz got there and got big time paid before him despite very comparable numbers. I got no argument that Fitz is one of the best receivers in the league, but Boldin is too, and he feels ignored by the franchise. But he kept his word from last offseason, he hasn't been a problem, he's played his tail off this year and sacrificed for the team and risked his career by coming back so fast from a broken face. After the game he didn't badmouth the OC and just said it was a heat of the moment thing, so what if he was pissed he was in there, that's fine by me, I hope they cut him, he'd be the one big signing I hope we do, I'd even go as far as trying to trade rogers and our 3rd for him. When healthy (not with a gimpy hammy like right now) the guy is a top 5 receiver.

The problem with that is a top five receiver isn't going to help us much when our aging line performs even worse than it did this year. One pick doesn't fix it, and trading Carlos leaves us with another hole to fill.

c.f. He was particularly bothered by a play Sunday night on which his club surrendered a sack against a "two-man rush," with just the ends blitzing. Tight end Chris Cooley was open in the end zone, but Jason Campbell didn't have enough time to execute a decent five-step drop. Zorn said it made him cringe just to recall it.

+++I was shocked by the length of Nate`s F list. I can see it from Cork, but Nate? First I was thinking that he`s not getting enough at home, then I remembered that George Bush has been President for 8 years (less one day) and then it seemed like a short F list, and a lot of people are on edge. Tempers are short.

This time next week no one will vow to F anyone. We will all disagree without being disagreeable. Except Cork, or course.

Posted by: talent_evaluator +++

F you. I don't hate anyone, except ironically. But by God, Bin Laden, Bush, Cheney and the guy who does the voiceovers for the Carl's Jr. commercials come close.

As the Cards head to the Super Bowl I can't help but compare how each team handled the QB situation.. Both teams have young number one draft pick QB's who they think will be the future of their franchise.. Both QB's Leinart and Campbell were hurt last season and their backups Warner and Collins came in and out played them. Here's the difference this season Whisenhurt believed the best players play and had a COMPETITION at QB.. and even though Leinart is maybe their future.. he picked the better player NOW and went with Warner, whereas Zorn said Campbell gets the starting job BEFORE training camp even started. How'd it work out.. the Cards are going to the Super Bowl and the Skins didn't even make the playoffs.. maybe a lesson for next year???

++++You know, if the skins suck so bad, and you're just so generally disgusted by them, and they're so vile in all ways, Go. Root. For. Another. Team.===BEANTOWN GREG

This is just addressed to Greg, and his fellow Redskin undercutters, so ye of faint spirit may choose to look away. It may be my Irish heritage, but I really hate it when people who are part of the problem seek to order me around.

So let me explain this to you real slow, so you can follow. Or you could just look out your window for thee next couple of days.

I didn't stop loving the United States or root for another country when it was run by idiots and morons, because I never gave up hope that someday someone worthy of the country they live in will be in charge.

Same thing goes for the Redskins. Unlike you, who is always so anxious to forgive and forget every. single. mistake. and. screwup. by the current management of the Redskins, I don't place my faith in idiots and morons.

I hold out hope that someday someone worthy of the team they work for will be in charge.

The problem isn't the Media or the critics being negative, the problem is the people giving them SO MANY REASONS to be negative, and their fellow travelers and apologists.

The problem with that is a top five receiver isn't going to help us much when our aging line performs even worse than it did this year. One pick doesn't fix it, and trading Carlos leaves us with another hole to fill.

I've been saying that too, but if the team is determined to trade him the Cardinals loss might be our gain, but I think it would take more to get him than Los and a 3rd, and that's the most I would give up, Boldin is a heck of a player but he's not a spring chicken anymore and until our lines improve he can only help us but so much.

Still it would be awfully nice to finally give JC a legitimate consistent gamebreaker #1 WR that can run the right routes and beat a double team consistently. And if you resign Hall, keep Springs, and Smoot, and can find a decently cheap guy like a Torrence you can get by. Its all a lot of ifs obviously but you gotta believe after the collapse we had we're gonna do something flashy, I for one don't buy the "conservative" cost cutting post JLa put up there, there's just no way Snyder won't use every ounce of cap room he has.

corky, maybe I'd have been better served by writing, "find another place to whine, and kvetch instead of here", instead of what I wrote. I mean honestly, we get it. You don't like Dan, you don't like Vin, and they can do nothing right. Got it. Ad neauseum. But seriously, consider another hobby instead of following this team. May I suggest breath holding competitions....

Is it just me, or do others agree that Cork is mellowing as the inauguration approaches? This new, kinder, understanding, and more mellow Cork is himself caught up in Change! Keep up the good work, Mr. Corcoran!

corky, maybe I'd have been better served by writing, "find another place to whine, and kvetch instead of here", instead of what I wrote. I mean honestly, we get it. You don't like Dan, you don't like Vin, and they can do nothing right. Got it. Ad neauseum. But seriously, consider another hobby instead of following this team. May I suggest breath holding competitions....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 19, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

so than the only acceptable conversation is the wizard of oz "nothing to see here" wait and see everything's fine diatribe we get from you? no thanks.....I appreciate Cork's point of view, and often agree with him, and I think what's sad is you and the others on here who think criticism of a franchise that despite have arguably the most loyal fanbase, is always among the highest payroll teams annually, always has the highest attendance, and consistently the highest or one of the highest revenue producing teams yet has only produced one playoff win and no division crowns in over a decade makes you not a fan is a big part of the problem since Snyder can just count his money whether he produces a winner or not.

I appreciate Cork's point of view, and often agree with him, and I think what's sad is you and the others on here who think criticism of a franchise that despite have arguably the most loyal fanbase, is always among the highest payroll teams annually, always has the highest attendance, and consistently the highest or one of the highest revenue producing teams yet has only produced one playoff win and no division crowns in over a decade makes you not a fan is a big part of the problem since Snyder can just count his money whether he produces a winner or not.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 19, 2009 11:57 AM

Wow. That is the longest single sentence I've tried to read on RI. Nice to see that Jack, too, is caught up in the spirit of Change, and is trying to disagree without being disagreeable.

The early morning b!tching about Clark/Pierce came about because while watching the Cards win, I thought to myself, "Wow, the Skins could sure use Karlos Dansby, and changing Rolle to safety was a geat idea."

Then I remembered that to get where they are, the Cards' FO must've undid all it's historical wackiness and now undertands the value of keeping guys around--which is why they let Johnson go and refused to trade Boldin.

As good as Dansby looks, I bet the Cards slip him a nice contract knowing the value he means to both the defensive scheme/chemistry.

It would be nice to see the Skins' FO make such a skillfull player assessment, particulary now that some very serious talent issues at corner, the o-line, linebacking, special teams, d-ends have to be made.

So if Moe complains about a 'dead issue,' it's because he senses the same crowd that brought us B.Lloyd, Arch, has some other form of wackness up it's sleeve.

So if Moe complains about a 'dead issue,' it's because he senses the same crowd that brought us B.Lloyd, Arch, has some other form of wackness up it's sleeve.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 19, 2009 12:38 PM

That crowd may have whackiness up its sleeve, but it would have to do with NASCAR and the Saints, not the Redskins. Gibbs/Saunders were Lloyd's sponsors. Williams was the one who wanted Archuleta. All that Snyder did was to write the checks.

But rave on, Moe, because as you point out, factual analysis is not your strength so you shouldn't let it stand between you and a good rant.

Kelly's advice might seem odd, considering he did the opposite himself last year.

Even though the NFL Draft Advisory Committee projected Kelly as a second-rounder, Kelly skipped his senior season and entered the draft, where he was taken by the Redskins with the 51st overall pick.

But, according to the source, Kelly faced an unusual circumstance that forced his hand.

"Malcolm's situation was different, as a lot of people have figured out. Malcolm had knee problems. The reason he slipped (in the draft) is because they knew about his knee. There's not a lot of cartilage in there," said the source, referring to a knee injury that kept Kelly inactive for all but five games of his rookie season.

"He's in the process of addressing it now. But had Malcolm been able to play in five games this year at OU, where would he be now? An undrafted free agent. That's why he had to get while the getting was still good."

epilogue to this:
And he found the perfect idiotic front office to take him....

So let me explain this to you real slow, so you can follow. Or you could just look out your window for thee next couple of days.

I didn't stop loving the United States or root for another country when it was run by idiots and morons, because I never gave up hope that someday someone worthy of the country they live in will be in charge.

Funny!? I didn't realize that idiots and morons weren't still running the country? Or did you just mean different ones?

"That crowd may have whackiness up its sleeve, but it would have to do with NASCAR and the Saints, not the Redskins. Gibbs/Saunders were Lloyd's sponsors. Williams was the one who wanted Archuleta. All that Snyder did was to write the checks.

Posted by: talent_evaluator"

Is that a fact?

Are you speaking on this with intimate knowledge of the Redskins dealings that offseason? Were Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato really saying, 'You know, I have no feelings towards this whatsoever. Just give us a Christmas list, and we'll make it happen'?

Come on now, you know better than that. Snyder and Cerrato always had input.

Of course, you could always take the "fresh start" approach and only judge this FO based on the 3 draft picks given up for Jason Taylor and Erasmus James, and a ten player draft that netted one significant rookie contributor. Personally, I think you'll get better reviews if you lump them in with the Gibbsian era.

Doesn't change the fact that when the Redskins play their next meaningful game in September, Dan Snyder will be the owner, Vinny Cerrato will be the VP of Football Ops, and Jim Zorn will be the Head Coach.

I just hope the Skins take the path of least resistence his off-season, and take very simple and logical routes to improving the team's offense.

Add at least 1 touchdown to every game lost this past season, and you get the picture of a team that makes the playoffs.

And Mr. Zorn must realize that some of the issues are scheme related.

He can not be so WCO centered as both the cards and stillers use varying bunch formations, rubs-offs, and speed to get the ball to a particular guy rather than either Warner or Big Ben reading through 2-3 progresses while the o-line crumbles in front of them.

Really zj?? I live 500 miles away from the DC area, I've been to exactly 1 game at Fedex field, in the past 10 years. I've NEVER bought ONE jersey, or any other piece of merchandise representing the team. Care to explain how I'm the type that Snyder loves??

I'm just sick of the constant whining, from you two...."wah, the team stinks", "wah, dan snyder isn't a good owner", "wah, vcerrato stinks"....wah, wah, wah,......

bc you're content to just accept mediocrity for oh since when he bought the team until now. He bought a division champion with a great core, brought in Jeff George to replace a 10 win 4,000 yard passing QB as well as all the other stupid signings that year and most since then. Sure they got a few right since then, but that's just the law of averages, cause when you sign everybody you want to anytime you want to you're bound to get one or two right. But their mistakes far outweigh their successes. (like last year's 10 draft picks) Yet, you continue to ignore and say wait and see despite all evidence to the contrary that Snyder will ever "get" it and years just continue to pile up.

But you may get your wish, cause sadly after being a fan of this team for 30 years I'm down to my last offseason if they spend another year chasing corners, or wide receivers, or QB, or basically anything while ignoring the trenches, and I mean at least 2 legitimate additions to both lines I'm done with caring until Snyder or Cerrato or both are gone, cause its just not worth it when the moron twins are in charge and I'm out of patience.

mack, who am I brown-nosing by chance?? Because I choose NOT to sit here and bring up Jeff George, something that happened 9 years ago, makes me a brown-noser?? Really?? Please with all your wisdom, tell me what can be done about the 2000 season to change it. I'm all ears.

No because your like the little kid that closes his eyes and thinks he's invisible cause he can't see anybody else. Just because your content to trust Snyder and Vinny and wait eternally to see them build a winner doesn't make you right, and other people wrong, or make other people's opinions any less valid than your's and in fact, most all of the available evidence makes your opinion pretty freaking stupid. So stop telling me or anybody else who wants to criticize this FO or this franchise that they can't or that it means their not a fan if they do. Just go back to waiting for Unicorns, and world peace, and the end to homelessness and hunger in the world leave the people who want to talk about a dysfunctional organization to themselves.

I don't get why you even come on here except to be a jerk cause if we all did what you wanted the conversation would be

Bean = "the Redskins are the best team in the world".....

Everybody else= "yes the are"

Bean = "just be patient and everything will be wonderful, cause Snyder and Vinny have just been getting all the other frnachises overconfident with their fake stupidity and now that they are, they will let their true shrewdness take over and build a winner"

Everybody else= "yes they will"

Bean = "Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly will be the best receivers ever and cure cancer just give them time to develop"

moe, love the youks deal, not comparing them, because obviously Tex is a better player, but last year Youk, and Tex had very similar numbers, now Youks needs to do it year in and year out, but I think they got him for short money.

I haven't heard anything on Lowell, nothing really is being reported, but pitchers/catchers are reporting to Fort Myers soon, so it will be out there. Yeah, losing out on Texiera stunk, but I think if Penney, Smoltz, pan out, then you have a pretty solid starting 5.

Greg,
Some believe the past is something we should learn from, in order to avoid making the same mistakes over and over again. Your position seems to be, the past is something we should completely forget. Add to that you kinda give off a "love it or leave it" vibe and you come across as an apologist for the front office. So you're sick of hearing what you think is complaining and we're sick of hearing what sounds like defending.

zj, name ONE time I've ever said any of those things....you can't. So go, get to steppin...Better yet, I'll be like you.

"WAH, Dan Snyder RUINED my 2000 season, WAH. WAH! WAH! If he doesn't start to do what I want, I'm gonna pout, and stop being a fan, cuz I've been a fan for 30 years"....you sound like a spoiled little brat....

moe, a yanks fan, nice. Love it. Close to half a billion dollars this offseason and for third place....such a waste...lol...

Greg, I'm done talking with you, you're even less worth it than waiting for Snyderatto to grow a brain.....to anybody else, I read on PFT that Peppers may get franchised and traded because of his "I want out comments" which means Gross can't get franchised. If you had to pick one (which apparently we do according to Jla) is Gross or Haynesworth?

For me its Gross, and then pick the #1 or #2 prospect at DT or DE versus signing fat Albert and picking the #4 or #5 tackle prospect.

MCGAHEE IS OUT OF THE HOSPITAL, BACK IN BALTIMORE
Posted by Mike Florio on January 19, 2009, 2:30 p.m. EST

The Baltimore Ravens have announced that running back Willis McGahee has been released from a Pittsburgh hospital after spending the night there due to injuries suffered in Sunday’s AFC Championship.

“McGahee was released from Presbyterian Hospital in Pittsburgh early this morning and returned immediately to Baltimore,” said Kevin Byrne, the Ravens’ senior V.P. of public and community relations. “He is resting at his home today. It is expected that Willis will have a complete recovery from the head and neck injuries he suffered last night.”

We reported last night that McGahee suffered a concussion, and that he is expected to be OK.

The veteran tailback, who suffered a nasty knee injury six years ago in the Fiesta Bowl, was flattened by Steelers safety Ryan Clark late in the fourth quarter of the Steelers’ 23-14 victory. Based on the replay angles aired in the wake of the collision, the hit looked clean.

Clark launched himself head first at McGahee, who seemed to instinctively duck his head into the contact. Though the helmet-to-helmet nature might have been inadvertent, the league typically frowns on players launching themselves helmet first at opponents.

Good for McGahee, that was a vicious hit, but I disagree, I though it wasn't intentional helmet to helmet, Clark led with the shoulder, it was just the angle Willis was coming from that their heads happened to be on the same side and hit.

February 26, 1992. Minneapolis, MN. Last Skins SB win.
Was watching Any Given Sunday (kinda underrated, storylines still kinda hold too), and Cameron Diaz the owner, tells Pacino the coach, they are now a second tier team. After looking around the league, Skins aren't even there anymore. Where do we rank though? Any assessments?

"bc you're content to just accept mediocrity for oh since when he bought the team until now. He bought a division champion with a great core, brought in Jeff George to replace a 10 win 4,000 yard passing QB as well as all the other stupid signings that year and most since then"

After looking around the league, Skins aren't even there anymore. Where do we rank though? Any assessments?

Posted by: saltine182 | January 19, 2009 3:06 PM

Hey, I've got the number right here: We've got the 13th pick in the draft. That means that last year 19 teams were better than we were and 11 teams were worse than we were.

Over a longer period -- Dan Snyder's ownership -- we have been about a .500 team. That's the league average. We haven't been anything to brag about nor -- as "Angry Old Man Jack" is threatening (or promising) -- to give up on. Plenty of room for improvement, and still lots of room to slide before we become Detroit, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Oakland, Houston, etc.

zj, I'll play nice. As far as the Gross/Fat Albert choice, I'm taking neither. Gross, as stated previously, will be 29 when camp starts, so no thanks. and Haynesworth, is gonna be too much money. Trade back in the draft, and then trade back some more.

In the power ratings, Skins were in the top 10, possibly top 5, by mid-season.

Second half of the season, they were definitely middle of the pack, something like 20th out of 32.

Realistically, a lot of things have to happen for us to be top tier again. We need to get stronger and younger. Young receivers have to step up(that is a big unknown if they can). Need depth and replacements on OL.

Defense needs to be able to resign Hall, extend CR, get SLB to replace Washington, extend Gholston and Montgomery and Alexander.

zj, I'll play nice. As far as the Gross/Fat Albert choice, I'm taking neither. Gross, as stated previously, will be 29 when camp starts, so no thanks. and Haynesworth, is gonna be too much money. Trade back in the draft, and then trade back some more.

p1funk, I wholeheartedly agree with the disdain for LeBron. F LeBron, even if he shares my birthday. (Tiger Woods also shares my birthday, but I actually respect him since he's, you know, a champion and all. Unlike LeBron.)
______________

I like LeBron. Kinda think it's hard not to. Although his commercials vary from sublime (the pool one with Old LeBron, young LeBron, etc) to "so bad they're actually good a la Saved by the Bell" (e.g., State Farm).

Doesn't matter how you make the money. How did all the others make their money? And, in the spirit of the day, maybe you should change the word "elite" to "once-elite"?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 19, 2009 3:28 PM
==========================================
You are picking and choosing the arguments you want to discuss. "Doesn't matter how you make the money" dodges the sad fact of what Dan Snyder has been done with the money as Redskins owner.

Also, maybe you should change the word "elite" to "once-elite" supports the arguments of Snyder bashers (I'd be more than happy to throw some worn out New Balances at the Owner), and not Snyder defenders.
~

Over a longer period -- Dan Snyder's ownership -- we have been about a .500 team.

76-84 isn't "about .500"

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 19, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

its .475...jeez, talk about splitting hairs...

bottom line is we're an average franchise over the past 15 yrs. the 15 prior, we were Top 3. At least those if us over 30 can remember the glory days. I worry that the next generation might start to slide to B-more or worse another Dallas outbreak in the DC area if we don't fix this soon. Who wants to kidnapp Vinny/Dann?

PSPS--When I hear "hair splitting" I think of the great debates among monastics about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Or among freshmen about if a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound.

I might go along with the kidnapping, but I don't want to be involved with holding them hostage. No one would pay for their release so you'd be stuck with them -- feeding them, caring for them, and worst of all listening to them. In the end, you'd be willing to release them and pay them to go away.

New subject...FA wideouts. We definitely can't afford the picks or contract to go after Boldin, but we need some new blood in the corps. Any thoughts on Reggie Williams (6'4", 220) from Jacksonville? He is going to be a FA, and isn't expected to command a big contract (has been considered a disappointment as a top-10 overall pick, but still could be a very adequate 2nd or 3rd receiver in our system).

He didn't have a great year in '08 (nor did anyone on the Jags team), but he had 10 receiving touchdowns and 16 YPC average in '07, so the potential is definitely there. I just don't think we can count on Kelly being healthy for 16 games, and ARE and Thrash certainly aren't the answers, either. Thoughts?

New subject...FA wideouts. We definitely can't afford the picks or contract to go after Boldin, but we need some new blood in the corps. Any thoughts on Reggie Williams (6'4", 220) from Jacksonville? He is going to be a FA, and isn't expected to command a big contract (has been considered a disappointment as a top-10 overall pick, but still could be a very adequate 2nd or 3rd receiver in our system).

He didn't have a great year in '08 (nor did anyone on the Jags team), but he had 10 receiving touchdowns and 16 YPC average in '07, so the potential is definitely there. I just don't think we can count on Kelly being healthy for 16 games, and ARE and Thrash certainly aren't the answers, either. Thoughts?

Posted by: PDXskin | January 19, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

more Skins fans in Portland?

I've always wondered why Reggie Williams hasn't turned into a beast. I remember some TD catch a couple yrs ago against us where he got absolutely popped by 21 or 30 and he shook his head like "that's all you got??" Perfect size, good hands. If we could convince him to rededicate himself, he could be a fairly low risk, high upside pickup. I do think we either go this route or see what 11 and 12 can do. We cannot afford to go after an elite f/a WR as you noted.

PSPS--When I hear "hair splitting" I think of the great debates among monastics about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Or among freshmen about if a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

-----

Got it. I tend to think of the thousand or so past arguments I've "won" by technicalities, semantics, or anything else of the sort. There's plenty of documentation on this blog.

Hair-splitting -- one of the great weapons in argument. Nothing gets your "opponent" more pissed off. It's almost a sport to me.

Yeah, we have a little West Coast Skins enclave out here in sunny Oregon! I'm not as regular on the blog as the other guys here in town, but I still try to represent with the PDX moniker (ala Nate, the original).

I'm not referring to where we stand as far as power rankings and draft position, strictly based on the on-field performance. I'm referring to where we are as an organization. Still taking into account our record as a team and HOW we play, how we are managed (both on the field and off), how the media views us, our ability to create revenue, our fan morale and opinions of front office, coaching, and players, and of course winning football games. Are we classy as an organization like the Steelers or laughable like the Raiders? Somewhere in the middle for sure, but a lot to consider.

good to hear it PDXskin. like your thoughts on Reggie W...he could be an affordable option. I still believe 11 and/or 12 will be good but I agree that Kelly's knees are a big concern, as is Thomas' attitude. If we could splice their best attributes together we'd have one finest prospect. And if I had $20 million, I'd be rich

Are we classy as an organization like the Steelers or laughable like the Raiders? Somewhere in the middle for sure, but a lot to consider.

Posted by: saltine182 | January 19, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

While the Steelers ownership and FO is classy, I'm not so sure about their fans/players, lots of dirty hits, cheap shots, and injuries happen in Pittsburgh....and their players are rough too. But even still we're much closer to the Raiders than the Steelers right now.

Are we classy as an organization like the Steelers or laughable like the Raiders?

Posted by: saltine182 | January 19, 2009 4:40 PM

My own view is that the media are malleable. Their view of "classy" is flexible and is determined by a team's record. If the Raiders had the Steelers' record, and vice versa, then Al Davis would be the darling of the media and the Steelers the laughing stock.

"Reggie Williams (6'4", 220) from Jacksonville? He is going to be a FA, and isn't expected to command a big contract (has been considered a disappointment as a top-10 overall pick, but still could be a very adequate 2nd or 3rd receiver in our system)."

This appears to make sense. But we weren't prognosticating about Snyder and Cerrato. Snyder wants big names. He would probably be better than ARE.

As for Thrash, unless ARE can replace him on the "specials", doubtful, you will likely see him agian. This something the 2 2nd round picks were supposed to be able to pick up. Unfortunately they failed in that regard as well.

Before Thrash, you get rid of an ARE. Except his contract might preclude that. Thrash is not supposed to be 2nd or 3rd wide out anymore. He was pressed into service because of the dismal results (and injuries) that were associated with the new WR draft picks. And the disappointing performance of ARE.

I expect Thrash to return until some rookie or young FA steps up and does a better job on specials.

No, it sucks that he didn't join the Nationals!!! The guy could have become the face of Washington DC, given the dearth of success relative to everyone's favorite the Redskins.

He could have made more money than Snyder if he had performed as expected and played his cards right. Instead he went to a town chock full of expensive free agents ... enough to add up to a billion dollars.

Did you notice how that kid Hightower got the first down on fourth and inches yesterday? Speed to the outside.

I think Devin Thomas will 'get it' and replace Randle El as the z-receiver, punt returner by next season.

But a speed back--like a Derrick Ward, 'cause the Chargers aren't letting Sproles go anywhere--would be a nice compliment to Portis provided the o-line get improvement at rt and lg during the offseason.

"But a speed back--like a Derrick Ward, 'cause the Chargers aren't letting Sproles go anywhere--would be a nice compliment to Portis provided the o-line get improvement at rt and lg during the offseason.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 19, 2009"

I think you would almost want to draft a back like that. But you are right if you are saying that has been the missing component in Gibbs 2.0 from the beginning. That could certainly have been a difference maker. I'm still uncertain where that would fit in Zorn's scheme. But a back like that coming out on passes makes a very attractive target.

No argument there, Mo - however, I agree with Peri that you look for that type of guy in the later rounds of the draft, rather than FA (Spoles was 4th rnd pick, Ward was 7th rnd). Marcus Thigpen out of Indiana is an undersized speed back who can also catch the ball out of the backfield and has experience as a return man. I'd be happy to use our 5th rounder on him...

If Brian Dawkins plays next year, does he break he get concussed, break his neck, or something worse? Dude leads with his helmet on nearly every tackle. During that game he was launching his head into nearly every tackle.