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Btw, so far Canvas (1-10) has been pretty good. The plot has been fairly fast paced, they avoided having every single female drooling over the male lead, the male lead is a student teacher as opposed to a student and both female leads were rejected.

i didn't really like da capo the first season. but everyone's talking about the second season so i was wondering if it was better than the first season or not. will someone please fill me in? what happen in the second season?

Well, if you want a really short description:

Think of it as a Coda, where you get reoccuring main theme(s).

Spoiler for Short Summary:

- Apparently, right after DC, Nemu disappeared to nursing school
- Junichi goes into withdrawal, and Kotori + gang have been nursing him for 2 years.
- Nobody's really 'moved on', and they still like Junichi

I have seen the first 16 episodes of DCSS and I would have to say I prefer the first season.

The central theme of magic is supposed to make everyone happy v. magic can't do everything and love beats magic don't make up for some problems in the second season.
The first season's fanservice and comedy was witty and/or advanced the plot. When Juunichi had that dream about Nemu in episode 2. It was just fanservice, it showed that Juunichi had some pretty "unbrotherly" feelings toward Nemu. Moe's bra joke was funny in a witty way. The joke would have been pretty pointless if you didn't know an ostrich's egg is huge. For the second season we have Moe getting her top pulled off by a monkey and about 4 thinly veiled bondage scenes.

What I have liked - Nemu and Juunichi, if Juunichi ended up with anyone else it would have been a slap in the face of the first season. Moreover, it would have made Juunichi, the scumbag that dumped Nemu for working toward her dream.
The idea of moving on as illustrated through Kotori.

I'll still watch the series as long as its subbed since the series still isn't that bad but the first series was good (not great).

Btw, so far Canvas (1-10) has been pretty good. The plot has been fairly fast paced, they avoided having every single female drooling over the male lead, the male lead is a student teacher as opposed to a student and both female leads were rejected.

Shuffle really improved after episode 11. Although, I didn't like ep. 11 it was nice that they decided to have the teacher and Mayumi share one episode as opposed to wasting time by giving each minor character their own episode (DCSS).

I agree. These arguments were pretty much the same things I said a little higher up in the thread. Regardless of whether I 'get' DC's 2nd season, to me the series will always suffer from a dumbed down script and way too many girls (the manga girl, acrobat, Moe, and miko have barely been used at all). After watching episode 17, Asakura's transformation from witty comedic hero to lazy slob seems complete, and the focus on Aisia remains relentlessly strong.

i didn't really like da capo the first season. but everyone's talking about the second season so i was wondering if it was better than the first season or not. will someone please fill me in? what happen in the second season?

I guess it depends on what you didn't like about Da Capo. Some features of DCSS, I feel, are superior, but some (noticeably the comedy) are lacking somewhat. DCSS makes a nice companion to DC, but if you didn't enjoy the first series (in particular if you didn't enjoy the last five or so episodes of the first season), then you probably won't like DCSS either.
There's nothing wrong with that, certain characters always resonate better from some examples of genres than others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dojikyo

The first season's fanservice and comedy was witty and/or advanced the plot. When Juunichi had that dream about Nemu in episode 2. It was just fanservice, it showed that Juunichi had some pretty "unbrotherly" feelings toward Nemu. Moe's bra joke was funny in a witty way. The joke would have been pretty pointless if you didn't know an ostrich's egg is huge. For the second season we have Moe getting her top pulled off by a monkey and about 4 thinly veiled bondage scenes.

As for the "plot holes" in DCSS, I don't find them to be any larger or more detracting than other examples from anime genres. (I mean, really, the first season featured a nekomimi maid for no other reason than it could). I find it hard to consider any fanservice "witty" (except for cameos which are really more referential than witty). My son knew by age five that ostriches lay giant eggs (though he probably had no idea what a bra was used for at the time), so I find it hard to consider that "sophisticated" (which I believe was the word you intended to use), and really, the fanservice-y part of that scene in the first season was Moe wandering around "bouncing" everywhere, not the ostrich eggs she was carrying in her bra.
I think DCSS has suffered in that it hasn't shown off the range the first season had. The first season started with about 10-15 basically funny episodes before switching to high drama mode. The funny moments seem funnier because of the dramatic moments that happen later, and the dramatic moments seem more dramatic because of the comedic moments earlier in the season. DCSS doesn't really have the comedic range to offset the drama. Shuffle and Canvas have both managed that range much better than DCSS (I've been watching on raws, so I'm on episode 25).
It's pacing is slow, but that's not necessarily bad, just different, and mostly personal preference (I vastly prefer Lamune to a lot of shows, and it is like the definition of slow paced). I think it would be less of a problem with the pacing being slow if they had just spaced out the later episodes a little bit (after 18 where things start to happen really fast) and cut the three episodes about the PC girls. Then it would have been paced about like Da Capo was (but still would have lacked a lot of the comedy).
I do agree that there were a few too many characters to keep track of, but I thought that was part of the fanservice-y bits (I also can't remember the manga girl's name after 25 episodes). I think they probably could have just rewritten their parts with characters from the first season.
However, as a companion series, I think DCSS does well enough on it's own merits. But, again, you pretty much had to enjoy the first season in order to enjoy the second.

Happy Holidays!

EDIT: It also doesn't help that it is an "after" series. It's hard to get excited about what happens "after" because it's usually not as interesting as what happened "During". "Before" can be interesting, depending on how a series started, but suffers from the fact that you already know how it's turning out.

EDIT EDIT: It also suffered from a serious lack of my favorite character, Moe. Between her voice actress, her love for nabe (which I think only gets mentioned like twice this season), and her tendency to fall asleep all the time (just like my wife!), she was pretty much my favorite character from the first season.

EDIT EDIT EDIT (hours later): After re-reading my post, I realized that I should point out that I really enjoy DCSS a lot. Not quite as much as DC, but still a whole lot.

I think DCSS has suffered in that it hasn't shown off the range the first season had. The first season started with about 10-15 basically funny episodes before switching to high drama mode. The funny moments seem funnier because of the dramatic moments that happen later, and the dramatic moments seem more dramatic because of the comedic moments earlier in the season. DCSS doesn't really have the comedic range to offset the drama. Shuffle and Canvas have both managed that range much better than DCSS (I've been watching on raws, so I'm on episode 25).
It's pacing is slow, but that's not necessarily bad, just different, and mostly personal preference (I vastly prefer Lamune to a lot of shows, and it is like the definition of slow paced). I think it would be less of a problem with the pacing being slow if they had just spaced out the later episodes a little bit (after 18 where things start to happen really fast) and cut the three episodes about the PC girls. Then it would have been paced about like Da Capo was (but still would have lacked a lot of the comedy).
I do agree that there were a few too many characters to keep track of, but I thought that was part of the fanservice-y bits (I also can't remember the manga girl's name after 25 episodes). I think they probably could have just rewritten their parts with characters from the first season.
However, as a companion series, I think DCSS does well enough on it's own merits. But, again, you pretty much had to enjoy the first season in order to enjoy the second.

Yeah, that I can agree with. I think the "problem" here is that the producers took a very "one-track" approach to the storytelling this time. This is almost in complete opposition to season one, which had not only two distinct "sections" (along with two recap episodes), but completely unrelated side story mini-episodes as well. Variety, in season one, was apparently in style. This time, though, they seem to have felt that every episode, even the ones that could be considered sidestories, had to still tie to the main theme (the whole "using magic to make people happy" debate). Because of the nature of the debate, it meant that even happy moments weren't without irony or sadness if you look deeply enough. In truth, there were very few truly "happy moments" in the show, because that drove home the reality of life for these characters. So, definitely, the comedy was muted, and the lack of contrast and slower pacing didn't cause the drama to "stick out" as much as it did in season one. But, then again, as you mention rooboy666, this is a companion piece, not a replacement/substitute.

The addition of the P.S. girls served to complicate the overall situation (more girls in romantic limbo gave credence to Aisia's argument), which isn't completely useless, but admittably not incredibly important either. I mean, obviously Nanako, Tamaki, Alice, and Kudo had to make an appearance - they're a part of the D.C. universe now, and this is probably this generation's last chance at being animated. Could have lived without them I suppose, but I still enjoyed their presense nonetheless. They were certainly "and also" characters (even in Aisia's own listings) - but then again, they were never part of the original game either. To compare and contrast, it looks like D.C. II will have a relatively large cast right from the get-go. We'll see how that turns out.

P.S. Never ceases to amaze me how impossibly fast things hit the 'Net (I'm still waiting for Amazon to ship the actual disc... ), but the Dolce 2 album is coming out on Friday and on it you can find the sad but excellent second ED "Memory's Love Letter" featured in episodes 24 and 25 (with a surprising electric lead in the second half), and all the other image songs you've heard so far (plus Nemu, Sakura, and Kotori's image songs resung - though I think I like the ones sung by the VAs better for the personal/in-character factor). Props as always to the music producers on this show; if there's one thing they undoubtably did right with Second Season, the music would have to be it, as far as I'm concerned. These singers are as much a part of Da Capo as the "ever-blooming" cherry tree, if you ask me.

I got annoyed thought I can appricate the storyline. So I bought the game so I can let kotori have her happy ending. Then I realized probably a lot of other people might have done this too.

It hurts so much to see kotori lose because I identify with Kotori as well. I think we share the same personality type. However, what's shocking is that what happened to me in real life I see kinda happening with Kotori and her fans.

Know this... even if every Kotori fan were to somehow jump into the dimension of Da Capo and help her out she would still not win.

Hahaha - only every single one of us here, I think. Well said; I think that's exactly the sad truth of this show. The fact that D.C. tends to attract fans who share Kotori's personality type (like you and I, and probably most of the people in this thread) only helps drive home the harsh reality of this truth. Indeed, Kotori's happy end in the game made me very happy too. Of note...

Spoiler for D.C. Game (incredibly minor spoiler):

I mentioned this in the thread a long time ago, but it's since been wiped. In the game, on Nemu's route, there's a decision point right near the end where you can "change your mind" and go for Kotori instead. Of course, this is a "fake ending" - no credits, no epilogue, just (a somewhat longer version of) "I'm so happy!" and then cut to black - in other words, "Game Over". Of course they couldn't do something similar in D.C.S.S. And in spite of what some people were hoping (for Kotori's sake), D.C.S.S. isn't a show about moving on, it's a show to teach Aisia (and the viewers) a harsh lesson about love.

She likes a boy that doesn't like her, at some level don't we all identify with Kotori?

Except for the rather vague part about her wanting to make people happy (something I'm sure we all identify with in our minds, even if others wouldn't agree with us ), I think they purposefully don't develop her personality a whole lot to make it easier to identify with her. Junichi's a slob, Nemu gets crazy jealous, but we don't really see any of Kotori's faults (and before anyone says anything, yes, she must have them, everyone does). She's a little on the shy side (as if that doesn't play into 90% of otaku-dom). I would go so far as to say that Kotori's purpose in the anime is for you to identify with her (I can't really speak for the game as I've never played it, but I've always sort of vaguely hoped that they actually gave her more of a personality than the anime).

I mentioned this in the thread a long time ago, but it's since been wiped. In the game, on Nemu's route, there's a decision point right near the end where you can "change your mind" and go for Kotori instead. Of course, this is a "fake ending" - no credits, no epilogue, just (a somewhat longer version of) "I'm so happy!" and then cut to black - in other words, "Game Over".

Spoiler:

Mm, sorta. What I remember best is that Jyunichi's dialogue during that CG sucked, super angsty or what . I dunno if I'd call it a longer version of her season 1 ending though, since she actually got accepted then (although for the wrong reasons), but their relationship wasn't gonna last anyway, most likely.

And actually, even if Kotori's my favourite character, I liked Alice's route best. Kanae's was really fun as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooboy666

She likes a boy that doesn't like her, at some level don't we all identify with Kotori?

Except for the rather vague part about her wanting to make people happy (something I'm sure we all identify with in our minds, even if others wouldn't agree with us ), I think they purposefully don't develop her personality a whole lot to make it easier to identify with her. Junichi's a slob, Nemu gets crazy jealous, but we don't really see any of Kotori's faults (and before anyone says anything, yes, she must have them, everyone does). She's a little on the shy side (as if that doesn't play into 90% of otaku-dom). I would go so far as to say that Kotori's purpose in the anime is for you to identify with her (I can't really speak for the game as I've never played it, but I've always sort of vaguely hoped that they actually gave her more of a personality than the anime).

Of course she has her faults. But she's a very likable character despite them. To understand her character better people would have to play the game. One of the things that isn't really shown in the anime is that despite the whole "idol" status, Kotori is a more normal girl than most people think, and she's quite insecure and naive at times.

And the whole being selfless thing, well...she's only human, but yes, she tries really hard to be nice, and I think many of us can identify with that, or at least really appreciate it.

Of course she has her faults. But she's a very likable character despite them. To understand her character better people would have to play the game. One of the things that isn't really shown in the anime is that despite the whole "idol" status, Kotori is a more normal girl than most people think, and she's quite insecure and naive at times.

And the whole being selfless thing, well...she's only human, but yes, she tries really hard to be nice, and I think many of us can identify with that, or at least really appreciate it.

Has Kotori ever been displayed with faults? I'm not trying to start a war or anything, but I can't ever remember seeing one. Being nice isn't a fault, neither is being normal. Being insecure and naive would also not be considered faults within the genre, that would be considered cute. And she's not as shy, insecure or naive as the nekomimi maid from the first season anyway.

I have never, in the entire series, seen Kotori displayed with a single fault, except she's "too nice", and that's not even really a flaw. Don't get me wrong, I believe the producers did this on purpose to make her likeable. Kotori was written as the perfect girl next door (except she doesn't actually live next door), there's nothing wrong with her character in that way (it's a lot like Nanami from Lamune actually). But I have yet to hear a single person name a single flaw she has that they didn't make up in their own head. Part of the point of the show is that despite the fact that Kotori is "perfect" (Well, as perfect as a human is likely to get), that doesn't make her perfect for Junichi.

Suzuka spoiler if you haven't watched it

Spoiler:

A theme that's shared in Suzuka, despite the fact that Honoka is generally portrayed as the ideal girlfriend, that doesn't make her ideal for Yamato

Again, everyone's different and everyone's loveable, and that means we are too!

Personally, I like Moe because she's a ditz and an airhead, has a tendency to fall asleep at the wrong times and in general seems to suffer from a bad case of ADD, as well as her kind and generous nature, all of which reminds me of my wife.

Has Kotori ever been displayed with faults? I'm not trying to start a war or anything, but I can't ever remember seeing one. Being nice isn't a fault, neither is being normal. Being insecure and naive would also not be considered faults within the genre, that would be considered cute. And she's not as shy, insecure or naive as the nekomimi maid from the first season anyway.

I have never, in the entire series, seen Kotori displayed with a single fault, except she's "too nice", and that's not even really a flaw. Don't get me wrong, I believe the producers did this on purpose to make her likeable. Kotori was written as the perfect girl next door (except she doesn't actually live next door), there's nothing wrong with her character in that way (it's a lot like Nanami from Lamune actually). But I have yet to hear a single person name a single flaw she has that they didn't make up in their own head. Part of the point of the show is that despite the fact that Kotori is "perfect" (Well, as perfect as a human is likely to get), that doesn't make her perfect for Junichi.

Being insecure and dishonest with her feelings are two things I'd call flaws (I suppose my phrasing made it look like I meant that being normal is a flaw, but I didn't mean that, I was just saying that she's a lot more normal than her idol status would make you think, but I put it in the wrong place ). Just because she's not being mean, or these flaws are not "evil" (please bear with my English - it sucks) or anything it doesn't mean she's "perfect", she has them.

I agree that it's not really shown in the anime though, I'm talking about stuff from the game. You find a lot more about her there.

Oh and I know you're not trying to start a war, don't worry. I'm just telling you my opinion. You're spot on about the show, though.

PS: Moe is behind Kotori and Alice and tied with Sakura for me, she's one of my favourites.

Being insecure and dishonest with her feelings are two things I'd call flaws. I suppose my phrasing made it look like I meant that being normal is a flaw, but it isn't. Just because she's not being mean, or these flaws are not "evil" (please bear with my English - it sucks) or anything it doesn't mean she's "perfect", she has them.
I agree that it's not really shown in the anime though, I'm talking about stuff from the game. You find a lot more about her there.
Oh and I know you're not trying to start a war, don't worry. I'm just telling you my opinion. You're spot on about the show, though.

Oh, again, I don't know anything about the game (which is really separate from the anime anyway).

But to clarify my point, being insecure is not a flaw when everyone in the series is equally insecure. She's always seemed honest enough in the fact that she liked Junichi (at least as honest as everyone else is). These are all standard characteristics of the genre. Nemu is just as insecure and dishonest with her feelings as Kotori is, so is Mako. It can't really be a flaw if all the characters share it, or at least, it can't be a distinguishing flaw. At that point it's an idiosyncracy of either the genre or the writer (In this case the genre, as all shows like this feature characters with those same two flaws, or else a variation of them). And I didn't mean the flaws had to be evil or mean, that's why I listed Moe's character flaws.

P.S. Still under the impression this season suffered from a serious lack of Moe. Very depressed that they couldn't show her and Mako discussing nabe on the roof occasionally like in the first season. There was also a serious lack of Mako trying to kill Suginami but failing miserably. And, of course, I have to agree with Anime on My Mind that the downgrade from Yoriko to Aisia is probably the worst first season to second season downgrade ever. Still loved DCSS as a companion piece though, especially the miko and the manga girl.

Moe is the most shafted character in season 1 as well. Her personality is portrayed accurrately, but they say -nothing- about her story, which is quite interesting and explains a lot of things.

Realllly? I never even considered that Moe had much of a backstory. Hrm.

Da Capo was a Dreamcast game wasn't it? And there's a PC version too, correct? I might have to see if I can hunt down a copy on amazon.jp just to find out what the heck is going on with her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvatarST

And I meant dishonest with things that bother her. She often bottles all her problems in not to bother other people, telling herself that "it'll be fine", and that causes more problems than it solves.

I think we're just disagreeing here. She doesn't seem any more dishonest than anyone else in this sense either. That's the beautiful thing about interpretation, everyone brings their own pack of cards to the game.

Realllly? I never even considered that Moe had much of a backstory. Hrm.

Da Capo was a Dreamcast game wasn't it? And there's a PC version too, correct? I might have to see if I can hunt down a copy on amazon.jp just to find out what the heck is going on with her.

I'd recommend the DCPS version for PS2 or DCPC for PC. The latter has adult content though, even if it's not much and in no way sick stuff. The PS2 version is basically like DCPC (in fact, DCPS came out first), but DCPC has a few new things apart from the h-scenes. I'm not sure but I think that Kotori's "ending" in Nemu's path isn't in the PS2 version, and there's a new branch for Miharu's story as well.

I think you should get this version because Tamaki, Alice, Nanako, Murasaki (the pink bear), Kasumi (new character too, doesn't show up in the anime) and, uhm...well, let's just call her Kanae because otherwise it'd be a spoiler are in. The original game doesn't have these characters.

And yeah, I guess we disagree there. If you do play the game though, and Kotori's route, make sure you post here later and tell me if your opinion has changed or it's still the same. And yes, I love different interpretations and debating, when people are civil, like for example in this topic. I do hope I didn't sound rude at any point though, if I do, mind you it's just my broken English (my first language is Spanish), so I apologize if that's the case.

Moe does indeed have an interesting past, and her development in her route is cool as well. I'm not telling you anything though, not even in spoiler tags, as I know those can be tempting, just that her route is one of my favourites along with Kotori's, Alice's and Kanae's, though that's probably more because of Moe herself, since she's a really good character.

Funnily enough I never got the original but a friend of mine kept rambling about it, before I was a DC fan.

I have DCPS, DCPC and DCSV. I've played DCWS but I don't own it. You're not missing anything if you buy just one either of DCPS/PC, and then the White Season and Summer Vacation games, except for the new things in DCFS...

I recommend getting DCPC/PS and DCFS which was released not long ago. From what I've seen DCFS is a combination between DCSV and DCWS, although quite a few things changed. More routes for other characters were added (DCWS was based on the original DC, so no Tamaki, Alice, etc.; and DCSV only had routes for Nemu, Sakura, Tamaki, Kotori, Kanae and Alice). As for the characters who already had routes, they seem to be the same from either the original DCSV or DCWS games, except for Kotori who seems to have a new route altogether.

Oh, DCSV has a few extras, under the name of SS IIRC , but I think it stands for Short Stories there. They're fun, but well, short. There's one for every character though, unlike in the main game.

I dunno, your call. Like I said, I think you'd be fine with either DCPC or DCPS and DCFS. You'd be missing a few things, but you'd miss the least things possible and you won't have to spend -that- much.

I really liked SV personally. You get to know Kotori, Alice and Kanae a lot better, discover more about their personalities, and things like that, and I enjoy those sort of lighthearted stories. Plus Kotori and her friends Tomo-chan and Mik-kun, and Alice, are awesome.

Moe is the most shafted character in season 1 as well. Her personality is portrayed accurrately, but they say -nothing- about her story, which is quite interesting and explains a lot of things.

I agree with you completely on how Moe's story did not receive the attention it deserved. I have not played the game myself, but I have read a good synopsis of the backstory for each character. Can't give you a concrete reason why, but Moe's story touched me in a way that none of the others did. And if they needed an example of "be careful what you wish for because you just might get it", Moe certainly fit the bill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Hahaha - only every single one of us here, I think. Well said; I think that's exactly the sad truth of this show. The fact that D.C. tends to attract fans who share Kotori's personality type (like you and I, and probably most of the people in this thread) only helps drive home the harsh reality of this truth. ...

Well, if you all promise to be gentle, I'll take a big risk and admit that I liked Nemu in both seasons of D.C. - faults and all. She always gets a lot of flak from people for being jealous, but with all the beautiful girls paying attention to Junichi I find it hard to blame her too much for that. And I got the impression early on that she does the "Evil Nemu" routine mostly because she has learned that a lot of times that is the only way to really make him realize how he is treating her. And the reunion scene with Sakura in D.C.S.S. was a beautiful moment - if I hadn't liked her already, I would have after that episode.

As for Kotori: she is a wonderful character, and I felt they did a pretty satisfactory job in the first season of resolving her feelings for Junichi. I thought the post-confession scene of her skipping school was one of the more wonderful moments of the first season. But the writers really and truly did Kotori wrong in the second season by re-opening up the possibility of a romantic relationship for her and Junichi. It was a no-win situation from the start. If Junichi had dumped Nemu for Kotori in D.C.S.S. it would have been unfair to Nemu, but even worse it would match Kotori up with someone who had just proven by his lack of faithfulness that he did not deserve her. <heavy sigh> Yeah, I'm not very happy at all with how Kotori's arc has played out. I just wish so many people didn't feel that it was all Nemu's fault.