"The key thing to remember about the dedicated Leftists is they believe themselves to be FOR the people, but not OF the people."

Presumably this is supposed to be clever or insightful.

But, the chant clearly states that the people are united. And, it is the chanters who are united--in their chant, if nothing else. Hence, the chanters are saying that they're united. Therefore, the chanters are saying that they're the people.

Like many here, I share the distrust towards fourth grade teachers. They are idealogues and ruthless in indoctrinating their students in the ways of addition, subtraction, and even long division....It's been said that Christian values in the long run undermined Christian beliefs. Christians felt that reason and truth would never be contrary to the word of God and thus permitted the subversions of Copernicus and Darwin to undermine their faith.....Something similar seems to be going on with fourth grade teachers. Too many people know how to add and subtract. They can see the budget shortfalls and compare the differences in their salaries to those of teachers. Ironically by stressing literacy and numerancy, the teachers have destroyed the very population they need in order to survive.

the chant clearly states that the people are united. And, it is the chanters who are united--in their chant, if nothing else. Hence, the chanters are saying that they're united. Therefore, the chanters are saying that they're the people.

Which is why the public employee unions are doing their best to keep the people divided and stymie the work of the people's elected representatives.

Their best, of course, includes misappropriating populist rhetoric to try to cover up the fact that they're only fighting for the narrow self-interest of their own class against the interests of the people of the state as a whole.

You really don't think that these folks chanting about "the people" being united aren't considering themselves to be part of "the people" who are united?

I think the whole point of them being there, chanting about the people being united, is to say that they are the people, and they are united.

wv: barack Maybe these means that BHO is part of the people. Can a Kenyain, be part of the people?

BTW, maybe, as he's documenting the scene, Meade should carry one of those signs that says 'Obama is a Keynesian.' That would probably elicit funny responses from the some of the protesters. Even a BHO supporter (like me) can see the humor in that.

BTW, maybe, as he's documenting the scene, Meade should carry one of those signs that says 'Obama is a Keynesian.' That would probably elicit funny responses from the some of the protesters. Even a BHO supporter (like me) can see the humor in that.

No, they sometimes switch to "the people united will never be divided" which I find amusing because that is exactly what they are causing with their "occupation" of the Wisconsin statehouse.

@Dose of, I have not felt or witnessed any real hostility at the Capitol all week. I've seen some tempers flare on a few occasions but people have been overwhelmingly gracious and civil. I've been talking to or overhearing more and more people who are from out-of-state, so I suspect the mood may begin to change for the worse. I hope not but, like most people in many of the states I've lived in, Wisconsinites don't seem to appreciate outsiders coming in and telling them how they should live.

My sense tonight was that the protest is just now beginning to lose some steam. Most people this evening appeared to me to be bored though it's possible they were just beer-ed.

The people that go into teaching, can't deny that people have political desires and identities and vested interests in outcomes. So the public school system is a liberal project that is designed to create as many little liberals as possible.

Do conservatives even accept the possibility that someone might go into teaching because they are good at it, or because they think it is a worthwhile profession? Do they honestly believe that the sole reason teachers teach is to promote a liberal political agenda?

I know quite a few teachers who are apolitical, in it only for the good they can do. So I'm happy to see the people of Wisconsin fighting back at the bigotry and demonization that the conservatives have been dishing out for far too long.

Besides, when will conservatives start taking on the police unions? You know... the kind of union that creates circumstances where an employee can be paid to not work for seven years, the kind of union that throws up every possible obstacle when one of its members is being investigated for committing a serious crime.

But you never see a conservative say a bad word about a police officer or their unions. Never. Why not?

It's pretty safe to assume that all those people on that video are public employees, or dependent on one, or dependent upon the Democratic party, that's essentially supported by them.

So all those people's clothes, and shoes, and expensive flashing cameras, and iPhones, and digital music; and the palace-like building in which they're having their tantrum...have all been paid for on the backs of the taxpayers of Wisconsin.

Great bloody chunks of other people's lives have been extracted from them by force of arms for all of this stuff that we see in this shot; so that the recipients can shit on those people.

"the chant clearly states that the people are united. And, it is the chanters who are united--in their chant, if nothing else. Hence, the chanters are saying that they're united. Therefore, the chanters are saying that they're the people."

Ergo, since I am not a chanter, nor am I chanting with them, nor do I support the chanting that they chant, I must not be a people? I chant, therefore I am? But only if I am chanting with a plurality of others who are united in something? Aaargh. Thank God I left that mad-town.

What if both sides, separate though they are in ideology, are each united as people? Will neither therefore be defeated? Will we be doomed to an eternal stalemate?

I think the whole point of them being there, chanting about the people being united, is to say that they are the people, and they are united.

If the demonstrators are the "people" then what are the Wisconsin taxpayers and the voters who elected a Republican governor and legislature who campaigned on doing exactly what is outraging the demonstrators?

If the demonstrators are the "people" then what are the Wisconsin taxpayers and the voters who elected a Republican governor and legislature who campaigned on doing exactly what is outraging the demonstrators?

This fight is absolutely central to our nation's future, but for some reason I find it inexplicably boring. The dishonesty and selfishness is just so low brow and un-nuanced. Like watching monkey's fight to hold on to a banana. There is no mystery, no real irony, no surprises anymore. Just ugly and sad people of low character doing what such people do.

"My sense tonight was that the protest is just now beginning to lose some steam. Most people this evening appeared to me to be bored though it's possible they were just beer-ed."

-----------------------

Its beginning to lose steam because, like the Dems, the teachers WILL have to go back to work. And once they go back, a good portion of the pro-union crowd will go with it.

Some may disagree, but I also believe the fact that the Dems in the Senate arent here has a factor in this. Seems to me that the opponents to this bill would make a bigger stink for longer if the Dems actually put up a fight in Madison instead of phoning in their complaints from Illinois. Its been a horrible PR move, but its been an equally horrible political move. Fitzgerald and the GOP arent going to give the Dems ANY KIND of leeway in any bill with regards to appropriations or amendments for the rest of this session.

Is the "Fox Lies" guy still there? He apparently is an 8th grade social studies teacher in Hartland. I'm not sure what I'd do if I had a child in his class come Monday. I think I'd ask them to switch my kid out of there. That guy was unhinged.

Do conservatives even accept the possibility that someone might go into teaching because they are good at it, or because they think it is a worthwhile profession?

Know what's even funnier? When these stupid motherfuckers bashing public workers have to compete in the job market with a ton of highly educated people fleeing the public sector for the private sector, that are sick of the bullshit.

Know what's even funnier? When these stupid motherfuckers bashing public workers have to compete in the job market with a ton of highly educated people fleeing the public sector for the private sector, that are sick of the bullshit.

You know what's even funnier than that? All the "highly educated" people fleeing the public sector who are unqualified to work in the private sector, and if they are lucky enough to find a job, they'll drop dead of a heart attack the first time someone tells them "No!"

I see Garage is back to the personal insults. He's a real winner. Are the rest of you pro-union folks proud to have him on your side? He's never going to listen to us, but maybe a little tough love from the people whose favor he so obviously wants to curry might build his character a little...

And just to show how "highly educated" public employees are, the IRS processing center here in Kansas City has a "Grammar Corner" to teach its employees how to speak and write correctly in their native language. If that is the competition, I am not afraid in the least.

they'll drop dead of a heart attack the first time someone tells them "No!"

News to you Garage, in the private sector, we college educated types are what is called "exempt employees". we work for a salary, not an hourly wage. And when there is a deadline, we're expected to suck it up and soldier on. I spent most of the day working on a project. actually I have 3 projects this week end to finish. My boss at different times has told me that each is my njumber one priority. irrational? yes, but it's a job, and I want to keep it and I want the firm to grow and keep our staff employed... that's how it works out where people work for a living.

bagoh20: This fight is absolutely central to our nation's future, but for some reason I find it inexplicably boring.

I'm bored, too. I'm bored with Democrats, I'm sick of being pissed at them. I'm supposed to respect the democratic process when they get elected. It sucks having them be able to decide things in ways I think are wrong. I think they are morons and crooks.

But apparently they think they are better than me; only I have to suffer that sort of humiliation and anguish. They have to be in power all the time, they always have to have a veto.

What happens after the next election in Wisconsin if the Democrats pull ahead? Are the Republican legislators going to walk out of the state? Because they should; they should get sworn in and immediately leave.

And if they don't have enough people to shut down the government that way, every Republican in the state should be out in the streets every day on strike. Go onto the campuses and take over the classrooms. Civil disobedience on a massive scale. Clog the prisons, clog the streets; shut down everything, forever.

Why is this necessary? Because if the Democrats succeed in this, then no one in Wisconsin is a free person. Every single one of you might as well be a slave. Your businesses, your houses, the money in your piggy banks, none of it will belong to you; you will have no say because you will only be allowed to make the decisions in ways your masters approve.

The Drill SGT - some of us public sector employees working in education are also "exempt", and deal with the same things.

Except, when economic times are tough we go without raises, pay more for our benefits, contribute more for our 401Ks when the state drops their amount, also get stuck with "furlough days", while we watch our union co-workers not give up a thing.

I'd take the deal the governor of Wisconsin is offering, and be glad to have it frankly.

My boss at different times has told me that each is my njumber one priority. irrational? yes, but it's a job, and I want to keep it and I want the firm to grow and keep our staff employed... that's how it works out where people work for a living.

Right. As if wiping asses all day, or being locked in a room for hours with a bunch of snot nosed brats is the ultimate reward for the education you worked so hard for. I wouldn't do it. Not for the pay they get.

Steven and Julius, indeed. The local police union held the city hostage for about two months last year when the mayor announced a cut on their funding. They basically stopped doing anything other than giving out traffic tickets. It was open and shameless blackmail.

I have never been a fan of police (no offense to any honest officer out there), and this just killed what little faith on them I had left.

"Right. As if wiping asses all day, or being locked in a room for hours with a bunch of snot nosed brats is the ultimate reward for the education you worked so hard for. I wouldn't do it. Not for the pay they get."

---------------------

Wisconsin spends 30% of its education budget on teachers salaries alone. Give me a break. And as if people are handcuffed and shackled into universities to become educators.

One thing is for sure...once Walker's full budget comes out, we are going to find out who is really in it for teaching and who is in it merely for the benefits.

A friend of mine, who is by no means a GOPer, resumed all of this masterfully (in my opinion) yesterday on Facebook. To a WI teacher who told her that the protest was not about the money, but the right to collectively bargain, she replied: "And the bargaining is for the money; therefore, the protest is about the money."

But you never see a conservative say a bad word about a police officer or their unions. Never. Why not?

If I had to guess it's because that profession, like firemen and the military professionals, sacrifice lives in the line of duty. Thus conservatives cut them more slack. Notice that conservatives don't care much for prison guards, even though that can be a risky job as well.

Conservatives believe in rewarding risk. Liberals are generally risk adverse, and believe that everyone should have an equal outcome if they put in their time.

What is evidently clear from all the discussion in this echo chamber is this: public school teachers are evil and hate America. They should also be blamed for and penalized for the fact that Wall Street and the bankers managed to F-up our economy royally. Also, if we could somehow manage to get the gap between rich and poor in this country as large as possible, that would be really great. Anything the government can do to help in this cause, like, e.g., lowering corporate taxes and reducing teachers' and nurses' pay, should be done a.s.a.p. Also, unionized nurses are really, viciously evil too. They should just die poor and alone. Oh man, I forgot, unionized home health nurses should also get paid less, as they have really cushy jobs. Finally, everyone should be paid poorly except those who create all the shitty, low-wage, jobs. That is all.

Give me a break. And as if people are handcuffed and shackled into universities to become educators.

That brings up an interesting point.

Who does get held hostage so to speak by unionized public workers is the public.

In Spain, Paris and London the public transport unions shut down the cities and denied almost everyone the ability to get to their jobs.

Now in Wisconsin the unionists are denying the children of the people who pay their salaries a chance to go to school. Those kids are going to have to go to school till mid June to make it up. Those parents also have to find day care what have you.

They are literally demonstrating day by day why they should not have collective bargaining. They have disproportionate power over the citizens of the state and they are abusing it.

No one likes to have their kids-an area where any parent feels most vulnerable used against them.

Where did I read that all the pubbies have to do is wait out the dem senators? Eventually they have to come home :-) Wisconsin is where their life is.

That sounds like a good plan to me. Let Walker keep going on TV - giving interviews - being calm, gently firm, reasonable and articulate - offering facts about what is being asked of the unions and the state of the budget, creating jobs etc...and, with disciplined patience and good humor wait...

What is evidently clear from all the discussion in this echo chamber is this: public school teachers are evil and hate America.

Here is what concerns me: our kids aren't getting educated!!! Who's job is that? To put it another way: Obama wants to improve the our education system. Why is that necessary? Why aren't our kids able to compete globally? What's wrong with our education system? Where does the rubber meet the road in terms of the teacher/student relationship?

"As long as the police and firefighters and troopers vote for Walker, I'm sure he'll give them whatever they ask for... and maybe a little extra to ensure their political loyalty."-------------------

Only 3 of the over 50 police unions in the state endorsed Walker. The rest endorsed Barrett. Needless to say, those unions arent his friends getting payback.

Simply put...the police and fire paychecks are getting slashed when Walker slashes the aid to local municipalities and schools...which is why the collective bargaining provision is being stripped. Certain communities need a larger police and fire unit than others, which is why Walker is leaving it up to the local communities to cut their police and fire budgets as they see fit. Walker can tackle WEAC and the state unions on his own, because they are statewide at a similar pay scale and rate. Police and fire are not, especially in rural communities.

That's kinda premature considering Walker hasnt even released his budget yet. And if the leaks are accurate, shaving nearly $1 billion in state aid to schools, wanting to raise the retirement age 10 years for state employees and teachers, and proposing to bust up MPS and the UW system are awfully bold ways to help solve the budget crisis.

I'm sorry, did I sound out of character? Pardon my French. It must have been the cocktails.

Either that or hanging out with these violent ruffians is starting to take its toll on you, Chickie.

Anyway, I appreciate Fen's letting us in on the spectacle that forms the root of his hatred toward teachers: He is uneducable to the point of considering the imparting of knowledge to be a form of abuse.

"the striking thing here is that the police didn’t intervene when the union thug was merely destroying property to impede the Tea Partier’s right to speak; they did finally act when the thug progressed to assaulting the Tea Party guy; and they’ve already released the thug, apparently without charges."

Know what's even funnier? When these stupid motherfuckers bashing public workers have to compete in the job market with a ton of highly educated people fleeing the public sector for the private sector, that are sick of the bullshit.

I hate to break this to you, but it is well-known that teachers are drawn from the bottom of the collegiate barrel.

Sure, a lot of them have masters' degrees... in education. That and two weeks training will qualify you as a job pulling espresso shots at Starbucks. :)

What did we hear in 2008? Elections have consequences. Joe Klein of all people said it best

"The Republicans won. In a democracy, there are consequences to elections and no one, not even the public employees unions, are exempt from that. There are no guarantees that labor contracts, including contracts governing the most basic rights of unions, can’t be renegotiated, or terminated for that matter. We hold elections to decide those basic parameters."

Garage and all of the other liberals on here, when you have lost Joe Klein you have officially entered the world of ass clownery.

"The key thing to remember about the dedicated Leftists is they believe themselves to be FOR the people, but not OF the people."

Presumably this is supposed to be clever or insightful.

No, just the truth - and one that's been self-evident certainly since the 60s.

But, then PB&J can't handle the truth.

Kos trolls never can.

Julius said...

Do conservatives even accept the possibility that someone might go into teaching because they are good at it, or because they think it is a worthwhile profession?

No, they go into it because they can't get into anything else. Education majors are consistently the lowest academic performers.

Do they honestly believe that the sole reason teachers teach is to promote a liberal political agenda?

As evidenced by that "distinguished educator", William Ayers.

PS In the early 70s, they used to televise the negotiations between the Philadelphia Board of Education and the teachers' union. After a few years of the people being able to see how those "worthwhile professionals" didn't give a damn about anything but the money or how much off time they got (who ever heard of union teachers striking over better curriculum?),the union demanded closed-door hearings.

Ann, now would be a good time to go out and interview some public school students. 9the and 10th graders. Ask them very basic, non-trick history or geogaphy questions: Where is England? What language do they speak there? when was the Civil War? Who was the president then? What was the Great Depression? When did WWII take place? Why? Name two big rivers in America. Name two big mountains. Name two mountain ranges. How many states are there? Etc...

in the world of blogging there should be a corollary to Godwin's law: whenever a poster criticizes the spelling or grammatical errors of another poster they have lost the battle of ideas--that would be you placeholder.

If the Berkeley of the Midwest can throw off the shackles of union control, then local, state and the federal government can reject the current laws that make our government:of the unions,by the unions, for the unions.

And return it to the people, for whom this country was once formed.

But if it cannot accomplish that here and now, as Jason pointed out, then citizens who are not public employees are merely serfs of the state.

I'm sure it was acoustically interesting. But I just can't help but think: They're shrieking like petulant children in a palace, an actual marble palace, paid for by Wisconsin tax payers.

If we assume an average hourly wage of $30 per hour for private employees, and a 2000 hour workweek, and a productive career of 40 years, I wonder how many people's lives that palace took. It might as well have bodies entombed in the walls, like the Great Wall of China.

And they're chanting for more of these taxpayers' money, to be pried from them at the point of a gun; and the gun paid for with the taxpayers' money too, and the IRS agent holding it is paid by the taxpayer.

1. Stop paying the legislators who are AWOL.2. Begin investigations into the doctors who are writing bogus medical excuses.3. Dock the teachers for everyday they miss work.4. Close the public bathrooms in the capitol building and other nearby state office buildings and turn off all public sources of water for drinking.5. Turn off the heat in the rotunda.6. Lay off all staff of AWOL legislators.

Question - who are the people that routinely carry signs depicting the gov. of Wisconsin as perpetrating crimes against humanity?

Answer - AWOL teachers and their supporters ('useful idiots').

Another question for you libtards - when, in life, is anyone justified to make demands of their fellow neighbor? When?

In the 10 years I've lived in my current home, I have never made a DEMAND of any of my neighbors. Now, I may have had a few friendly REQUESTS along the way, but the teacher's demands we see today are done while hiding behind the union apparatchik.

Garage: "Know what's even funnier? When these stupid motherfuckers bashing public workers have to compete in the job market with a ton of highly educated people fleeing the public sector for the private sector, that are sick of the bullshit."

Garage, thank you for this. This is one of the funniest things I have ever read on the internet. What is even greater is that I believe you believe it.

Why, do you think, it has never been tried? Either it is because the "highly educated" believe they are being fairly paid and treated now. Or, they are too "highly educated" to figure out they could make more in the private sector. Or, they just love serving the public as school administrators figuring out new objects that kids can't carry to school.

"The majority that elected him? That being the most logical place to start is the primary reason it eluded you.

He won by 128k votes. Guarantee he doesn't have the majority anymore."

Really!

I'm sure we would ALL agree that paying MORE for something that is a demonstrable failure is a recipe for success. Right?

Because at the end of the day, thats what the libtards want the rest of us to accept.

Graduation rates and test scores have been tanking for years. Teachers whining about this and that, yet work far less for their money than those in the private sector that do not enjoy union protection.

Suggestion - if you want to protect your own jobs, 1. start by showing up for work, 2. show positive results you're getting from your students, 3. stop acting like the pampered prima donnas you are showing yourselves as, 4. move beyond the role of hostage-takers and get your stinking dem reps back to the capitol to debate the issues. Elections have consequences, have the guts and balls to stand and deliver.

This is a chant used by the left in South America, only difference, there the chant rime:"la gente UNIDA jamás será "VENCIDA (the people united will never be defeated)or one very popular in Cuba: Fidel AMIGO, la gente estan CONTIGO. (Fidel, friend the people are with you)

As soon as folks realize what else is in the bill, they will be united: Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill proposes sweeping changes to the state's Medicaid programs, changes that could affect many of the 1.2 million state residents enrolled in public health programs like BadgerCare, Family Care, and SeniorCare. The provisions would allow the administration to revamp and even gut the programs without following state laws or the normal legislative processes

"a lot of America's education problems can be blamed on teachers, but the root of the problem is mom and dad!"

Agreed.

So why are teachers insisting on 'most favored' status when they are really tools for the whims of the DOE?

My wife is a teacher so I know a bit about the issues and reasons behind the awful performance of many of today's students.

The truth is, many teachers are wearing handcuffs in terms of curriculum and flexibility.

So maybe the teacher's beef really isn't with the people paying the tab - maybe its with the DOE and their culpability with the lagging results.

Teachers can bitch all they want about the criticism they receive for our failing students. The truth is, the results won't allow the teachers to overcome the dreadful optics of teachers carrying Hitler signs and making demands.

Michael observed: "What is even greater is that I believe you believe it."

It's just like his stated belief that just because the government has always made payments on its debt that it will always be able to. It doesn't matter that the data contradicts such a childish notion, it's the liberal's unwavering faith in the unlimited power of government. (And forget about the rather salient point that the government hasn't even touched the principle since around 1957.)

It all sounds remarkably religious when you break it down. The irony being the liberals' disdain for religion and over-reliance on so-called "credentials".

What makes it really funny is that fiscal conservatives who are religious generally turn to religion for personal guidance and moral direction, yet leave the quantifiable (economics) up to logical systems.

The fiscal liberal eschews the moral/ethical component of society while making things like finance and economics an article of faith. This faith might be easily debunked by 5th grade math, which is why they have to mask it in thin terminology like "multiplier" (economics) and "highly educated" (someone who simply had the time and money to get a watered down degree).

I see the problem here. The chanters are confused about who they are. They are the Government.

"The Government, united, will never be defeated."

Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, though.

Ok, not the whole government. The chanters represent the part of the government that is unaccountable to the populace. The portions of the government that are accountable to the people are trying to rein them in, and they shriek.

Either it is because the "highly educated" believe they are being fairly paid and treated now

If it were so easy, and paid so well, I suspect you'd work in the public sector. But I don't think you work in that sector do you. I think you work in the sector that received hundreds of billions of taxpayer money to bail out incompetent criminals. Am I right?

I think Walker will become even more popular. People are sick to death of the corrupt, unaccountable, unsustainable union/democrat machine. Everyone on the right, in the middle, and I submit even some on the left, are sick of it.Only far left proggies hate Walker.As they should.

I could've had a normal professor for ConLaw...one who isn't borderline insane.

I'm sort of shocked at the ignorance here--lots of absurd comments from people who aren't even in Madison and pretty much want to make up their minds about what's "really" going on. Look--there have been multiple polls out the last few days, and people in WI are overwhelmingly against curtailing collective bargaining rights. No, not paying more into pensions, which the unions have conceded they would do, but only limiting the ability to collectively bargain.

People are finally realizing that our "deficit" this year was created by Walker, even though the finance department says we're probably going to finish with a surplus when the annual report comes out at the end of June. You guys love making assumptions, but honestly? You're wrong.

Do conservatives even accept the possibility that someone might go into teaching because they are good at it, or because they think it is a worthwhile profession? Do they honestly believe that the sole reason teachers teach is to promote a liberal political agenda?

Sure you get a spectrum of reasons. Of the teachers I know or have known, politics is not the major reason. Some truly want to teach and about an equal number want a relatively easy, secure, decently paying job with great benefits. This group is essentially lazy and wants as much as they can get for as little effort as possible, thus the need for unions.

Know what's even funnier? When these stupid motherfuckers bashing public workers have to compete in the job market with a ton of highly educated people fleeing the public sector for the private sector, that are sick of the bullshit.

Yes, that will be funny. They can come and try to work for my company in marketing research where you actually have to be smart, work hard all year round, and compete with even more highly educated, more intelligent people.

As educhter said "Education majors are consistently the lowest academic performers." That's been shown plenty of times including at the University of Tennessee when I was a student there. Education majors consistently had the lowest GRE scores, yet managed to have high GPAs. Can you say, "easy curriculum?"

The teachers are desperate for unions because they can't, or don't want to, compete at the same level as most other college graduates, but want to force us to pay them as much as they possibly can.

If your generalization is true, the further irony that Jesus was/is a liberal! And of course the great thing about The Bible it can be interpreted "every which way to Sunday" depending on one's political agenda.

But that's another discussion lol

Did I mention the American voter ain't that bright ...

btw, the religious right are neither!

When I was back there in seminary schoolThere was a person thereWho put forth the propositionThat you can petition the Lord with prayerPetition the lord with prayerPetition the lord with prayerYou cannot petition the lord with prayer!~~~~~

"Look--there have been multiple polls out the last few days, and people in WI are overwhelmingly against curtailing collective bargaining rights."

Well, whether that's really true or not, cannot be determined by a poll.

The fact is, we can't afford the current union model. Collective bargaining with yourself is easy, but it isn't real-world sustainable.

As for the rest of your take, what happens in Wisconsin will no doubt be repeated in other states facing the same choices.

As far as your 'assumptions' about Wisconsin finance, it is telling that you blame Walker for the deficits the state surely faces. You conveniently fail to mention the unfunded mandates imposed upon states by the Feds (Medicare, ObamaKare, etc).

So, unitl you acknowledge ALL of the aspects, your attempt to pin the fiscal woe of Wisconsin on the governor is what is absurd.

I definitely think that polls matter when you want to talk about "the will of the taxpayer." Walker has manufactured a deficit, and now he's trying to put the blame on everyone else. And honestly, it's not like the unions have been unreasonable--agreeing to pay the pension percentage is a huge concession, which they're willing to make.

Garage: I do not work in the public sector and I would not hire someone who had spent a great deal of time in the public sector. Why? The work I do requires that the work get done on timeframes that would not make sense to a public employee. We might have to pull one or two all nighters in a row to get an offering memorandum prepared. Someone used to the public sector would not consider this kind of effort. Second, I believe the "calling in sick" phenomenon is common amongst public employees and thus it was not considered by them to be remarkable during these last days in Madison. This is not the ethic of employees I would consider. Next, anyone who had spent considerable time in the public sector would not have the ambition to make a lot of money that I require of people who work for and with me. Next, I need people who can think for themselves, who can negotiate their own compensation and who can make quick decisions on their own.Finally, I did not receive one fucking penny from the government and I have struggled during these last two years in a way that the slugs in Madison have not. Got that dickhead? Not one mother fucking penny from the government. I should think that putting it that way, in the language you understand, that you might consider that everyone in finance, everyone in banking does not fall into the category that you so easily put them in. You dumb fucking shit.

I have to give Garbage Mahal some credit. As to librul commenters, he is just about the last man standing. Most of the other lib regulars have given up on defending the Prez and the Dems. In fact, most never seem to comment anymore.

The real reason the union is fighting this are the provisions in the bill that allow teachers to choose whether they want to be members of the union, and the requirement to have the union collect its own dues rather than continue with an automatic deduction on the teachers paycheck.Its all about the union power - it doesnt give a damn about the 6000 teachers that will lose their jobs if this bill does NOT pass.

Again, your ignorance of the Wisconsin's financial state is showing. This state had a surplus last year, and we're probably going to have one this year, too. But Walker pushed through $140 million of special interest tax breaks for businesses, corporations and groups who contributed to his campaign after he was elected. If you want to know where the $137 million deficit he's talking about is coming from, look no further.

Walker essentially made a brash decision without thinking it through, and I don't think he anticipated this kind of response. Will this bill eventually go through? Yes, I don't doubt it, but the fights are going to continue on for some time.

"I have to give Garbage Mahal some credit. As to librul commenters, he is just about the last man standing. Most of the other lib regulars have given up on defending the Prez and the Dems. In fact, most never seem to comment anymore."

People are finally realizing that our "deficit" this year was created by Walker, even though the finance department says we're probably going to finish with a surplus when the annual report comes out at the end of June. You guys love making assumptions, but honestly? You're wrong.

shiloh tipped her cards: "If your generalization is true, the further irony that Jesus was/is a liberal! And of course the great thing about The Bible it can be interpreted "every which way to Sunday" depending on one's political agenda."

Golly, and here I didn't mention any religion by name. I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you!

I'm no Christian, but I'm fairly certain that Jesus wasn't preaching that the gubmint had all the answers/was the cure for all evils. But I don't wanna get in the way of a good meme.

"Did I mention the American voter ain't that bright..."

No, but it's clear you have a problem with projecting. Again, I'm shocked."btw, the religious right are neither!"

I was wrong about you. It's not that you have a problem making a cogent point, you just have a problem making sense.

With less than two months left in the term, Gov. Jim Doyle’s administration department released a report showing a $1.5 billion deficit for the next two-year budget cycle. Although that number is official, the agency’s chief -- noting caveats included in the report -- almost immediately began portraying the actual deficit as closer to $2.2 billion.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." ~ H.L. Mencken 1920

So Mencken predicted George W. Bush being (((appointed))) president (80) years before it happened ~ Oh the humanity!

Bush is the perfect example of the Peter Principle ~ "You rise to your level of incompetence!"

>

Did I mention America survives despite itself as The people, united, will never be defeated. is especially amusing knowing Gore got more votes than cheney/bush ...

btw, Nixon got 43.4% of the vote in '68, but did a tad better in '72 as the power of incumbency is frickin' huge! And how pathetic Nixon only getting 43.4% in '68 after getting (49.6%) in '60.

ie he won by default, much like Carter, Reagan, Clinton ...

Hey, 'ya gotta vote for someone and nowadays, if you're a Republican in a close race, hope the turnout is low.

"The clarity is going to hit simultaneously at the level of principle and of practicality. As talk turns to the 'new class war', the concept of a class defined not so much by its net worth or tax bracket as by its economic (and therefore political) dependence on government will sharpen step for step with the reality of this class, which will be hitting home in all its gruesome implications for those outside and inside it.

So already we can see a reactionary confusion setting in on the left. Because Republicans are going after the government class as an idea and a reality, liberals and progressives are under intense pressure to follow Roger Ebert's lead in responding this way:

My dad was right. "The Republican Party is against the working man."

Anyone who responds to the current crisis by anointing unionized employees of the government as the epitome of 'the working man' is placing themselves, and I really do not say this lightly, at the mercy of socialism -- not just as an intellectual theory, but as an emotional promise of happiness. There has never been a viable, durable Labor Party in the US. But neither has the government class ever been so big or faced such an existential threat." --James Poulos (link at Instapundit)

So Roger Ebert says-- 'If you do not work for the government, you are not part of the working class.' Got that? You evil private sector goons.

Bob: But Walker pushed through $140 million of special interest tax breaks for businesses, corporations and groups who contributed to his campaign after he was elected. If you want to know where the $137 million deficit he's talking about is coming from, look no further.

You obviously didn't. From Sofa's Polifact link:

"The tax cuts will cost the state a projected $140 million in tax revenue -- but not until the next two-year budget, from July 2011 to June 2013. The cuts are not even in effect yet, so they cannot be part of the current problem."

Bob, you've been fed with a shovel. Don't you resent that in the least?

Again, a lot of America's education problems can be blamed on teachers, but the root of the problem is mom and dad! and not only does atlas shrug, but China is smilin'.

Note he not only likes the current state of affairs, but roots for America's biggest enemy.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." ~ H.L. Mencken 1920

So Mencken predicted George W. Bush being (((appointed))) president (80) years before it happened ~ Oh the humanity!

Sounds more like Barack Hussein Obama, mmmm mmmm mmmm.

If j is Jeremy without the eloquence, shiloh is j without the intellect.

PS It's the religious right is - single entity. For someone who thinks he's smarter than all the Althouse Hillbillies, shiloh needs to learn some English grammar.

Shiloh (you may want to google the results of Shiloh as a civil war battle)

Warren Gamaliel Harding was much more like bill clinton--popular, handome, presided over an economic boom and fucked everything in sight. got emeshed in teapot dome--and at least never said it depends on what the meaning of is is

You may want to consider Calvin Coolidge who got elected primarily by breaking the boston police strike--rather more like reagan and patco--and didnt shoot his mouth off like Clinton and the current jive talking, shucking and jiving douchenozzel incumbent.

But please carry on--this blog listens to all representatives from the entire spectrum.

Shiloh--actually america has changed very little; technology as you point out has changed, but the American spirit described by Alexis Tocqueville (I left the de out) is still I submit quite relevant.

The comment about the civil war has to do with my personal dislike of the modern penchant for using geographical locations for christian names (eg dakota, cheyenne, savannah and the like), and was inappropriate--apologies.

You still need $$$/name recognition/likability to get elected president, so in that sense, little has changed. Political ideology being totally irrelevant as one party screws up and is replaced by the other party.

Again, for the record, my dad was a Civil War buff(expert) hence, ergo, therefore my nic and interestingly enough Shiloh is one of the few battle sites in PA, OH, VA, WV, MD, TN I haven't visited. User names like most things in life, less is more, the simpler the better. Posting on the net being so much bs notwithstanding.

ie no major social/economic/political problem is ever gonna be solved by political blogging, eh.

Do conservatives even accept the possibility that someone might go into teaching because they are good at it, or because they think it is a worthwhile profession? Do they honestly believe that the sole reason teachers teach is to promote a liberal political agenda?

Well, yes, I certainly USED to believe that most teachers entered the profession because they thought it was worthwhile, and not just to promote a political agenda.

Then this Wisconsin fiasco happened. Now I know that -- in Wisconsin, at least -- teachers rank teaching a distant third behind "lining their own pockets" and "pushing the union's political agenda". The proof being that they've gone AWOL from the third thing to do the first two.

@Placeholder "Pretty good rule, but not when you post illiterate gibberish in a conversation about education. You still can't write a correct sentence!"

The ISSUE, THE ISSUE ... Placeholder.Reading comprehension not taught in your high school? Contribute something, anything to the debate please. If not, I may have to refudiate you. I do have a strategery for said refutiation.