Like I said before, I don't care so much if I have to spend a decent chunk of change as long as I'm getting quality for my money. I'd really prefer to stay under the $1000 mark as much as possible, though.

Unfortunately, I can't test either pair to see what they sound like. I'm in the middle of nowhere and the closest audio stores don't carry an extensive selection with brands like Beyerdynamic. If the DT 990's highs really are super pronounced, I may be better off with the DT 880 because I unfortunately do have some sensitivity to harsh tones in the higher frequencies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleAngel

I would say to get something that's 250-Ohm, a few have said the 600-Ohm is only slightly better then the 250-Ohm.

If you spend like $350 or more for a nice external headphone amplifier, then the 600-Ohm might be worth it.

Hm. Wow. Considering that's more than the headphones themselves, that's kind of an investment that doesn't necessarily seem worth it at this point. Is the Xonar just not up to the task when it comes to the extremely high impedance sets?

Originally Posted by NamelessPFG
I don't think double-amping is that big of a deal, at least with the Titanium HD's RCA jacks. I mean, technically speaking, every chain that has a dedicated amp with analog input is going to be double-amped regardless.

Also, will we see any gaming-specific reviews for Stax Lambda systems any time soon? Vintage ones aren't nearly as wallet-punishing as the brand new stuff, though the more affordable ones do require speaker amps to drive their bundled transformer boxes. For that matter, what about the Koss ESP/950?

What makes you say that CMSS-3D Headphone is only better for FPS gaming, exactly? Do you think it colors the sound more, but has more precise directional imaging? (If only I had an Astro Mixamp or something so that I could answer this question for myself, because there's no way I'm going by WinDVD and foobar2000 Dolby Headphone functionality...completely irrelevant to gaming.)

And as for that point for not needing a separate headphone amp for a sound card with its own headphone amp...that depends on whether or not you stick with dynamics/orthos. I don't think there's a sound card in existence with an electrostatic amplifier...

I miss spoke, the CMSS-3D is a little better then the Xonars (Dolby Headphone) for FPS.

It's the only "fact" I know that I can say about the Creative cards verses Xonars for FPS gaming.

I can not give any informed opinion about any other advantages the Creative verses Xonar for gaming.

I am biased toward the Xonars.

I should has said the Xonar's Dolby Headphone is great for movies and helps with some games.

Some gamers have said setting the game's audio to "Theater Cinema" (if it has that setting)

helps the best for Xonar cards and to me the term "Theater Cinema" sound close to something to do with Dolby Digital.

Like I said before, I don't care so much if I have to spend a decent chunk of change as long as I'm getting quality for my money. I'd really prefer to stay under the $1000 mark as much as possible, though.

Unfortunately, I can't test either pair to see what they sound like. I'm in the middle of nowhere and the closest audio stores don't carry an extensive selection with brands like Beyerdynamic. If the DT 990's highs really are super pronounced, I may be better off with the DT 880 because I unfortunately do have some sensitivity to harsh tones in the higher frequencies.

Hm. Wow. Considering that's more than the headphones themselves, that's kind of an investment that doesn't necessarily seem worth it at this point. Is the Xonar just not up to the task when it comes to the extremely high impedance sets?

I believe the Xonar Essence STX (& ST) are as good for powering headphones as any main stream sound card, up to the $200 range.

Not sure how many people have used the STX with different models of 600-Ohm headphones, so limited feedback.

Onkyo makes a great sound card for $400 dollars, but I'm sure they do not sell that many.

Most add on sound cards are bought for gaming, most gamers will buy a 32-Ohm $50 headphones for gaming.

Gamers in the 10-20 year old range will not have lots of extra cash for buying gaming gear.

So selling 250-Ohm headphones to gamers is a limited market, 600-Ohms way more limited.

The Xonars really started out as great sound cards for movies on the computer, most if not all DVD movies use Dolby Digital 5.1.

Gaming is more a secondary function for the Xonars as Creative Labs will not license out EAX 5.0 for use on the audio processors that the Xonar's use.

Starting with Windows Vista, it made it easier for game makers to be less dependent on EAX.

The first Xonars did not come with dedicated headphone amplifiers.

The later Xonars came with a TI (Texas Instruments) headphone amplifier rated up to 600-Ohm,

which I've heard is a great and well liked headphone amplifier chip in the audio field.

Anyway

So as I see, 600-Ohm headphones are really for music (stereo 2.0 channel) lovers who will spend $300 to $1000 (or more) on a dedicated external (tube?) headphone amplifier.

Yes, the difference between the different ohm models of the same Beyer headphones is severely blown out of proportion here. The few friends that I know have tested the same headphone models with different ohm ratings have stated that they sound too close to one another and that you should buy one based on functionality instead of going by the typical "OMGZ 600ohm ONLIES PLZ" mentality of head-fi.

For someone who isn't gonna use an external or powerful amp, I'd go with the 250ohms.

Also, to those sensitive to piercing treble, definitely skip the DT990s. They are very sharp. VERY. The DT880s are sharp in the treble too, but not like the 990s. A master blacksmith would be impressed, lol.

Okay. Thanks for the help, guys. I think for now, I'll look into finding myself a pair of DT 880s. Hopefully the treble isn't too overpowering for my ears, because I wouldn't know where to go from there. You have any opinions on the Pro versus Premium versions of the DT 880?

Still trying to figure out the sound card situation, because there are conflicting opinions across the web about which virtual surround is better, which out of the Xonar Essence and Titanium HD actually has the better sound for movies and games (although there actually seems to be pretty strong support for the Titanium HD), etc. Price-wise, the Titanium HD's around $30 less than the cheapest I can find the Xonar Essence. There are a few valid complaints about the Xonar, too, like the driver issues I mentioned earlier, along with things like a slight lack in the ease of usability in the software (having to manually select the number of audio channels for each movie?). You can also upgrade the op amps on either to help change the sound, but that's way beyond my realm of knowledge.

The Pro vs Premium should be identical in sound except that the Pro brings the drivers closer to your ears so you may get an extra amount of bass (subtle), and slightly smaller soundstage. Talking about maybe 5% difference.

Originally Posted by Dillweed
Okay. Thanks for the help, guys. I think for now, I'll look into finding myself a pair of DT 880s. Hopefully the treble isn't too overpowering for my ears, because I wouldn't know where to go from there. You have any opinions on the Pro versus Premium versions of the DT 880?

Still trying to figure out the sound card situation, because there are conflicting opinions across the web about which virtual surround is better, which out of the Xonar Essence and Titanium HD actually has the better sound for movies and games (although there actually seems to be pretty strong support for the Titanium HD), etc. Price-wise, the Titanium HD's around $30 less than the cheapest I can find the Xonar Essence. There are a few valid complaints about the Xonar, too, like the driver issues I mentioned earlier, along with things like a slight lack in the ease of usability in the software (having to manually select the number of audio channels for each movie?). You can also upgrade the op amps on either to help change the sound, but that's way beyond my realm of knowledge.

Sometimes the Titanium HD will go on sale with a mail in rebate, final price is around $100.

Creatives new sound card, the Recon3D (SB1350) PCI-Express sound card just came out three days ago

Comes with a dedicated headphone amplifier.

Priced around $100.

Beyerdynamic Pros have slightly tighter clamping force, better seal for working in a studio.

Premiums have a slightly lighter clamping force, little more comfortable, more expensive then Pros.

Unfortunately, no. It only accepts Dolby tracks. For example, Dolby Lossless would be downconverted to Dolby Digital 5.1. This is something I hope Dolby fixes with Dolby Headphone. That or a new device that can at least accept DTS feeds and convert them.
What I mean is that the Mixamp will convert DTS feeds to some regular stereo and expands it. Its a shame, because almost all Blu Rays use DTS signals, not Dolby, so you won't get the real virtual surround. Meaning, DVDs tend to sound better off the Mixamp than Blurays, due to DVD having Dolby Digital signals.
So in the case of non Dolby signals, I'd turn off the virtual surround button on the Mixamp, unless expanded stereo doesn't bother you. I don't mind, but it does sound quite artificial in comparison to a proper Dolby Headphone signal.Actually, I have to check, but I don't think the Mixamp even accepts DTS. I have my PS3 set to only feed it DD or 2 channel. You may not even get sound off a DTS signal. I'll check when I get home.
In any case, the Mixamp only has an optical input, so you wouldn't get lossless 5.1 anyways.

Just wanted to confirm, the mixamp definitely does not accept DTS signals. You will get no sound at all when feeding the mixamp DTS. It has no trouble passing the signal through however, as I feed my receiver DTS signals passed through the mixamp all the time. I'm referring to the wireless 5.8 mixamp, no idea how the wired version handles this.

Okay, I realize it's probably a bit foolish, unneeded, and likely won't make a huge difference in the sound, but does anybody know what it would actually take to hook up the 600-Ohm DT 880s to something like the X-Fi Titanium HD and still be able to use the CMSS-3D? I'm mainly just curious what extra equipment and cost it would require. If it would basically just mean buying a good amp, I think I could justify the extra cost by knowing that I could re-use it should I decide to upgrade again in the future.

Okay, I realize it's probably a bit foolish, unneeded, and likely won't make a huge difference in the sound, but does anybody know what it would actually take to hook up the 600-Ohm DT 880s to something like the X-Fi Titanium HD and still be able to use the CMSS-3D? I'm mainly just curious what extra equipment and cost it would require. If it would basically just mean buying a good amp, I think I could justify the extra cost by knowing that I could re-use it should I decide to upgrade again in the future.

All you need is an amp. CMSS-3D Headphone works over the RCA outputs, and it probably still works over S/PDIF.

As for which amp, that's not a question I can answer, at least not for a 600-ohm headphone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by googleli

I have just placed order for the Smyth Realiser. When my BHSE comes, my ultimate music / gaming / movie headphone system will be done:

I'm envying your wallet right now...but at least you won't have to upgrade your audio system for a long time, if ever.

The only thing I'd add is an Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD for the sole purpose of being an EAX DSP (I'd opt for a cheaper card if there were any with HDMI), but if you don't play any games that use EAX or hardware-accelerated audio in general, it would be a waste of money and a PCIe slot.

Also, I see I'm not the only one around who's had the Stax + subwoofer idea...but I currently lack the budget to actually execute that idea.