こんにちは、皆さん お久しぶりですね。お元気ですか。I'd like to join the 2kyuu study group.I've been studying for the 2kyuu lately, but the amount of words is... oh... (not to mention the listening part...)I don't think I'll pass 2kyuu first time... but I'll try anyway

Katafei wrote : I wanted to make this sentence,She's the queen, she represents the country, so she can't be impolite.王妃であるからには、国に代表して、失礼してはいけないBut I was wondering if the 2 -te forms would be included in the はいけない?

I'm a bit interrogative about that, as I only find references to からには as implying doing something naturally after have done something (not "being"). It's unclear, I'm afraid, but it means that there are 2 actions, the second one often being of volition or appeal. Maybe some examples will make it clearer :

日本に来たからには、日本のことを徹底的にしりたい。Since I came to Japan, I want to know in depth Japanese matters.

試合に出るからには勝ちたい。Since I take part in the contest, I want to win.

As for the second part of your question, (2 reasons) I would not know, except I can play trial and error, as long as I'll be corrected by more knowledgeable people :試合に出て、よくトレーニングをするからには、勝ちたい。Since I take part in the contest and I train well, I want to win.

As for the second part of your question, (2 reasons) I would not know, except I can play trial and error, as long as I'll be corrected by more knowledgeable people :試合に出て、よくトレーニングをするからには、勝ちたい。Since I take part in the contest and I train well, I want to win.

hmmm, that sounds good! Then my sentence would be like this:She's the queen, she represents the country, so she can't be impolite.王妃であって、国に代表するからには、失礼してはいけない。

Last edited by katafei on Wed 05.14.2008 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I did not say vocabulary per se is boring and certainly not etymology : it's just cramming words for the sake of an exam, learning lists that is beyond what I can stand at this point of time (I might have done worse in the past ).The words I encountered today were a little less "sexy", so to say, than yours.Except this one : 性器、the うつわ（器）part being, considering the genderlessness of the term, something of a puzzle until I remembered 楽器。And this is funnier by far than most of the other unknowns I encountered - or could not remember from a previous encounter, too many of those - today.

********My third bit of grammar :

13．をめぐって、をめぐる

Spoiler:

Debates and conflicts around a certain issue. Often followed by verbs with meaning conflicts in opinion, various debate or struggle.N + をめぐって；をめぐる＋N

a) この規則改正をめぐって、まだ討論が続いている。There is still an ongoing debate about this modification of the regulation.

b) マンション建設をめぐる争い がようやく解決に向かった。The dispute concerning the building of the block of flats has at last come to a conclusion.

c) 教育制度をめぐる諸問題について、話し合いましょう。Let’s discuss the problems about the educational system.

イ．元気なうちに世界旅行をしたいです。I want to travel round the world while I’m healthy. (still in good health)

ロ．日本にいるうちに、ディズニーランドへ行ってみたい。 I want to go to Disneyland while in Japan.

ハ．これはよい本です。問題を解いていくうちに日本人の考え方や感じ（かんじ）方が分かり、日本で起きている最新（さいしん）の話題（わだい）や情報（じょうほう）を知ることができるように構成（こうせい）しています。This is a good book. While you are solving the questions, you will also understand the feelings and thoughts of Japanese people.

ニ. 育ちの良い（そだちのいい）ものを残（ざん）しうちに、梨の木（なしのき）の負担（ふたん）を減ら（げんら）します。While leaving the fruit that has grown well in condition, poor fruit is thinned to lessen the burden on the tree.

********Katafei, interesting analyst of 語彙。 I like how the names of some flowers are introduced.

Suisen 水仙 ＝ DaffodilSui 水 = water sen 仙 = hermit (a person who, usually for religious reasons, lives a very simple life alone and does not meet or talk other people)Hence, 水仙 = hermit who lives in the water

Thank you Uncle Two-Head, I will edit that. Please feel free to correct my mistakes, be it English or Japanese.I know I'm not perfect, but I'm willing to take every opportunity to learn. Even though I don't post sometimes, but reading forum here has become my daily routine, every day I learn something new.

I guess I have lost myself in the cybernet world sometimes, my personal feelings shouldn't enter into this at all. Anyway ..... thank you once again for participating in this thread, that's just simply an encouraging response.

Do you all have an idea how we can practise listening via chat session? We are not getting any corrections here. Do you think there's a need to continue with the study group?I have to admit that I'm not up to the mark of L2, even though I suspect some sentences are incorrect, I have no ability to give a better sentence. If it's a waste of time, let's drop it.