I get the idea from Malakeith's dialogue, the guy who would know. The dialogue in the movie was very specific about Kurse not being able to be killed. He then demonstrated he was different from those guys in the prologue by taking an Asgardian weapon through the chest and not giving one single crap. I understand they have a similar power source, but... so? Speaking of, Thor also got right back up after his fight with Hulk. Thor's a resilient guy, go fig.

The Kursed in the prologue took a few swords through them without giving a crap as well but were taken down eventually, it seems they can take a lot of punishment but can be put down. Malekith, from what I remember said that no Asgardians would be able to beat Kurse, but its obvious Odin could have, hence them not meeting in the movie. Its a shame though, it would have been a nice little scene for Odin to take a punch from Kurse and then give a bigger one back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

The idea that Hulk can get up to black hole crushing levels is preposterous. His punches would have to be able to crush the atoms of air as he punched. The area would get dark because he would be hitting hard enough to pull the light in the area towards his fist. That just sounds dumb to me. And even if he could, because he's just sooooo mad, there's no reason to think that he could do so before Kurse does him like Abomination almost did if not for Betty being about to die. This is a guy who had half his body crushed by a black hole and was still fighting it, fully conscious. You can't 'knock him out' like he's some kind of street thug. If Hulk can't kill him, Hulk can't win.

Think we got our wires crossed here, I wasnt saying Hulk's strength could get upto black hole levels, I was saying rather that I dont think a black hole is the only thing that would kill Kurse or stop him, I think Hulk would eventually get up enough strength to beat Kurse, he would take a pummelling 1st of course, but I think he would come back.

Also you are forgetting something as well, Hulk himself cant be killed from what we have seen in the movies so far, Banner even mentions this a lot in TA. So even without Betty, I think Hulk would have defeated Abom in TIH, Betty just gave him the drive at that moment to get angrier and stronger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon sexton

I never got the "can't be killed" thing, from that line. I assumed the opposite. Algrim being "Kursed" was like the bullet in Renard's head from The World is Not Enough: he was becoming less and less noticeable of pain and bodily damage until at which point the "Kurse" was going to consume him.

Yeah agreed, Malekith does say eventually the power he wields will consume him. And as I said above, I dont think a black hole is the only way to defeat Kurse.

Kurse is 4 times as strong as Thor is! Kurse would overwhelm Hulk before Hulk got mad enough to match Strength with him.

__________________August 11 480 BC Greek Patriots fought and died to defend freedom against foreign oppression March 25 1821 Greek Patriots rose up to throw off the yoke of foreign oppression! Happy Independence day to ALL Hellenes! ZITO ELLADAS!!!!!

He put a bullet in his mouth and came out fine. He wrecked a chitauri ship the size of a skyscraper with a single direct punch. Kurse was basically unstoppable, but it's not like the Hulk was ever once close to death either, he was just humanized more. Since you're being so technical with Asgardian spear, a situation we've never seen Hulk in, we can compare it to Mjonir. Thor's hammer was shown to be much more effective and devastating than a spear and he took a direct blow to the face.

Yeah in the comics the Hulk isn't indestructible, but in the movies when have you seen anything, and I mean anything, penetrate his skin or make him bleed? By all means it's an even fight.

In TIH, Abomination stabbed Hulk in the pec with his exposed bone on his arm. He also had blood coming from his mouth.

__________________Throw the rules out of the window, odds are you'll go that way to.

Kurse would lose simply because he would be unable to fathom a mortal being with Hulk's power. He would beat Hulk down, only to turn around a few seconds later any see Hulk standing, healing, and ready to go again. This would repeat itself several times until Kurse becomes confused, sloppy, and incredulous. A frenzied Hulk eventually overwhelms Kurse.

__________________Topher (toe-phur), verb (used with object) : to spoil; decay: Several of the foods served at the feast were tophered by bacteria, and the guests vomited on the carpet.

Think we got our wires crossed here, I wasnt saying Hulk's strength could get upto black hole levels, I was saying rather that I dont think a black hole is the only thing that would kill Kurse or stop him, I think Hulk would eventually get up enough strength to beat Kurse, he would take a pummelling 1st of course, but I think he would come back.

Also you are forgetting something as well, Hulk himself cant be killed from what we have seen in the movies so far, Banner even mentions this a lot in TA. So even without Betty, I think Hulk would have defeated Abom in TIH, Betty just gave him the drive at that moment to get angrier and stronger.

Yeah agreed, Malekith does say eventually the power he wields will consume him. And as I said above, I dont think a black hole is the only way to defeat Kurse.

I mean, we can guess that lower amounts of force can defeat Kurse, but then we're just kinda making stuff about Kurse up. Same with Hulk, you think he could have defeated Abom, that Abom would not have ever finished destroying him, or that Hulk would heal faster than Abom could destroy him, or whatever, but there's no basis for that. You're just hoping, thinking whatever you feel like thinking because you like it.

Banner never said "Hulk can't die" in Avengers. He mentioned that he couldn't kill himself with a bullet... but we're far past bullets. The reason I stick with black hole so much is that he seemed to be resisiting or fighting against the black hole. That suggests an amount of durability that is staggering, and much higher than we can reasonably estimate the Hulk reaching.

One thing I don't get is the fact that so many people bring up the fact that Thor was able to stagger Hulk with Mjolnir or the fact that Kurse swatted Mjolnir.

So? While Kurse didn't even budge from several strikes (well, except for maybe when he was retreating from Asgard and Mjolnir gave him a less than satisfying trajectory off of the balcony), it's not like Hulk on the other hand got his ass handed to him because of Mjolnir. He got launched into a plane, but immediately got back up and was angrier. Also, I get the impression that Mjolnir's trajectory can be disrupted with enough force. It's enchantment isn't one of weight, but one of not being able to be wielded by one not worthy. Thor looked like he was going for launching Hulk across the room again, but instead Hulk caught the hammer and both immediately went to the ground to satisfy Odin's enchantment which may not have been what Thor intended.

So with that, I'm not even very impressed with Kurse's swatting of the hammer. Any force strong enough can do that it seems, so all it really does it ensure that Hulk's strength is on par with Kurse's. Give or take a couple tons, but Hulk shouldn't need too much time to catch up strength wise, especially after getting pummeled for the first few rounds.

Later in the fight, Thor was getting ragdolled by Hulk, and was completely unable to do anything until the pilot showed up. Replace Hulk with Kurse and the pilot with Loki and you basically have the same scenario. Thor and Mjolnir are virtually non factors in both fights, and thus shouldn't be used a a judging factor.

Instead compare Hulk and Kurse's feats that are independent of exact interaction with the Thunder God. Which is more interesting than "well x took y from Thor better than z". Like, I hadn't really noticed that Kurse was still kicking despite being sucked into a black hole. That's a worthy durability feat against Hulk and I'm glad it got brought up in this thread. Much more of that please. Like, can we see Hulk recovering from an Asgardian sword? Or lifting the same rock and throwing it the same distance? Or surviving Kurse's face melt thing?

The line was very specific about no one being able to defeat him in combat. It did not allow for an opposite interpretation of that. It did include the fact that eventually he would burn out and die that way. So, perhaps Hulk, if Hulk somehow was not killed before he reached Kurse's strength level he could outlast Kurse, which might take weeks, who knows?

Ya, those cursed soldiers in the prologue were not the same as what Kurse eventually was. I remember Malekith specifically talking about it.

So with that, I'm not even very impressed with Kurse's swatting of the hammer. Any force strong enough can do that it seems

You're crazy. Nowhere has it been established "any force strong enough" could do that. That's what makes the act so powerful He freakin' swatted away an immovable object. Remember, nobody is supposed to be able to grab it or move it ...... whether stationary or airborne.

One thing I don't get is the fact that so many people bring up the fact that Thor was able to stagger Hulk with Mjolnir or the fact that Kurse swatted Mjolnir.

So? While Kurse didn't even budge from several strikes (well, except for maybe when he was retreating from Asgard and Mjolnir gave him a less than satisfying trajectory off of the balcony), it's not like Hulk on the other hand got his ass handed to him because of Mjolnir.

and it's not like the Thor/Hulk mini slug fest was one sided either

Quote:

He got launched into a plane, but immediately got back up and was angrier. Also, I get the impression that Mjolnir's trajectory can be disrupted with enough force.

I don't doubt that, but the only one to do what Kurse did to Mjolnir is Kurse that said I bet Odin and Thanos could accomplish the same feat, until we see Hulk accomplish such a feat I'm not going to say that MCU Hulk can

Quote:

It's enchantment isn't one of weight, but one of not being able to be wielded by one not worthy. Thor looked like he was going for launching Hulk across the room again, but instead Hulk caught the hammer and both immediately went to the ground to satisfy Odin's enchantment which may not have been what Thor intended.

we can't know what Thor intended but when he kneed Hulk it had an impact, when he punched Hulk it had an impact, Mjolnir had an even more sizable impact, none of these things had too much impact on Kurse though(to be fair Kurse was never kneed or kicked)

Quote:

So with that, I'm not even very impressed with Kurse's swatting of the hammer. Any force strong enough can do that it seems, so all it really does it ensure that Hulk's strength is on par with Kurse's. Give or take a couple tons, but Hulk shouldn't need too much time to catch up strength wise, especially after getting pummeled for the first few rounds.

Kurse did that one handed, without even looking at the hammer as if it was a mosquito like pest, an after thought, and didnt merely stop mjolnir's kinetic energy Kurse sent the hammer flying in the opposite direction! It's a much more major feat then you let on

Quote:

Later in the fight, Thor was getting ragdolled by Hulk, and was completely unable to do anything until the pilot showed up. Replace Hulk with Kurse and the pilot with Loki and you basically have the same scenario.

Not really, Hulk was mad while fighting Thor and Thor was holding back to avoid damaging the Hellicarrier, Thor still managed a good showing, Thor was mad at Kurse, wanted vengeance and didn't have to worry about killing hundreds or thousands of people but got totally emasculated

Quote:

Thor and Mjolnir are virtually non factors in both fights, and thus shouldn't be used a a judging factor.

Instead compare Hulk and Kurse's feats that are independent of exact interaction with the Thunder God. Which is more interesting than "well x took y from Thor better than z". Like, I hadn't really noticed that Kurse was still kicking despite being sucked into a black hole. That's a worthy durability feat against Hulk and I'm glad it got brought up in this thread. Much more of that please. Like, can we see Hulk recovering from an Asgardian sword?

Eventually hulk would have recovered thx to the healing factor

Quote:

Or lifting the same rock and throwing it the same distance?

What would that prove? Kurse only needed to hit Thor with that boulder it was never about the distance of the throw

Eh, to each his own I guess. I see Thor's throw of Mjolnir at Hulk to be one that should go across the hangar, even if a regular person caught it, it wouldn't care and would either take their entire body for a ride, or detach their hand. Sure we can't really tell what he intended, but the body language to me says it's no granny toss so to speak. That toss was meant to hurt and go much farther even, but Hulk interfered by grabbing it. When Hulk catches it, it's trajectory changes to the ground to avoid being technically wielded by a being capable of resisting its trajectory.

I believe the same principle applies to Kurse. He's strong enough to bat it away, which I'll concede is still impressive, and without looking first to boot. But so is actually catching it and forcing it to abort mission. (and that was one handed too btw)

This has been discussed quite a lot already through various threads about the Hulk vs Thor scene, but I agree with the idea that after Thor realizes Hulk can hit hard and summons his hammer, he's letting loose a bit. Sure he didn't do something with lightning that would level the entire Helicarrier, but he didn't do that with Kurse either. And your first and second quotes of my post explain my stance on the impact that Mjolnir had on Hulk. Sure, Hulk feels the impact whereas Kurse did not, Hulk can handle that level of impact. He comes back, he gets angrier, and hits back harder.

Like I said, Thor in both fights gets put in a very similar situation. To me he is not a good judging factor for Hulk vs Kurse. The only thing his outings with them prove is that they both fit in the "able to beat the crap out of Thor" camp.

As for the healing factor, we haven't seen MCU Hulk have to recover from anything like that, in fact, I'm not entirely sure we've seen him heal quickly from anything. But the only thing we've ever seen him need to heal from was Abomination's spikes. Everything else that's hit him hasn't even left a bruise, let alone the huge gaping hole an Asgardian spear might make.

Maybe we'll see Ultron manage to do that kind of damage in AoU.

I don't understand what you mean about the rock. I'm talking about if Hulk is capable of the same feat. So yes, it is about the distance of the throw. It's not even about what Hulk is throwing it at, it could be a training dummy for all I care. What I care about is if he can lift an object that size, and throw it as far, if not even farther, than Kurse did. That'd be a strength feat that would contribute to our debate of Hulk vs Kurse.

And you really don't remember the face melting? He killed the first two guards in the dungeon with it, as well as an entire hall of guards. Just lifts them by the face and burns them. I'm not sure he does it outside of the Asgard invasion sequence but it would have been interesting to see him try to use it on Thor.

I don't understand what you mean about the rock. I'm talking about if Hulk is capable of the same feat. So yes, it is about the distance of the throw. It's not even about what Hulk is throwing it at, it could be a training dummy for all I care. What I care about is if he can lift an object that size, and throw it as far, if not even farther, than Kurse did. That'd be a strength feat that would contribute to our debate of Hulk vs Kurse.

I'm taking for granted that Hulk could grab the rock and throw it the same distance(or further) but I don't consider the rock toss a high end feat for Kurse(or Hulk) since he wasn't going for some kind of maximum distance record the only goal was to hit Thor with it

Quote:

And you really don't remember the face melting? He killed the first two guards in the dungeon with it, as well as an entire hall of guards. Just lifts them by the face and burns them. I'm not sure he does it outside of the Asgard invasion sequence but it would have been interesting to see him try to use it on Thor.

Hmmm I recall Kurse lifting up asgardians like nothing and killing them like nothing and punching the maruders jail cell force fields but a clear image of faces melting eludes me I'll absolutely take your word for it

True, but I do still consider the distance to Thor to be impressive for something that large. Gravity was tugging at the rock like nobody's business lol so it was one thing for Kurse to be able to shoulder that thing, but another thing to make sure it reached Thor. Didn't need to be some maximum distance record to impress me I guess. *shrugs*

MCU Hulk hasn't had any great lifting feats (struggles with humvee, but tears metal sculpture like nothing, and tearing off plane wing in Avengers) but I suppose with his striking feats we can assume he can shoulder a great deal of weight. I'm probably just gonna take that for granted too.

Haha thanks for the trust. No really. I suppose face melting isn't the most accurate description, but there was face/throat grabbing involved (he clear lifted the asgardians like nothing as you say), followed by fire from Kurse's hands, which resulted in a horrific death that reminded me of Ghost Rider's penance stare.