Fedor or the winner of Brock/Carwin?

Fedor

Brock/Carwin

When I think Fedor Vs. Carwin I think back to Arlofski's boxing and how it gave Fedor fits until he landed a single knockout punch. Carwin's style could do the same types of things to Fedor, only Carwin has enough power to knockout anybody, even Fedor. Legacies do not double as chin protectors.

When it comes to a Fedor Vs. Brock rumble I again go with the UFC guy. Fedor would have a puncher's chance at knocking Brock out, but after watching Lesnar clown Mir at UFC 100 I don't think anybody can objectively say that Lesanr couldn't neutralize Fedor on the ground. Fedor may have better technique, so did Mir, but wrestling Lesnar is like wrestling your older brother. You just don't win...

Then there is the fact that Fedor hasn't fought a real quality heavyweight since December of 2004. Whoever wins on July 3rd will have faced the kind of competition Fedor hasn't seen in years...

Fedor is a joke. i hate the fedor dick riders who just don't get it. he hasn't fucking fought anybody....in their prime.

lets take a look at his last few fights.

• Coleman, who at the time was two months short of his 42nd birthday;
• Mark Hunt, a massive kick boxer with a sub-.500 record;
• Matt Lindland, who has spent most of his career as a middleweight and is still competing at 185 pounds;
• Hong Man Choi, who is 7-feet-2 and more of a curiosity than a real fighter. He’s most notable for having fought Jose Canseco;
• Sylvia, who in his fight after losing to Emelianenko was beaten by 48-year-old boxer Ray Mercer, who himself was making his MMA debut;
•Arlovski, who lost his next two after losing to Emelianenko;
• And Brett Rogers, who only months before meeting Emelianenko had given up a job changing tires at Sam’s Club to train MMA full-time.

fight somebody fedor. you haven't fought fuck of anybody. and you hide behind your managers. dana white offered you the most lucrative contract in UFC history and you passed on it. bitch.

Let's see; if he hasn't fought anyone worthy lately, how would you know how he'd do? Fights are far from predictable.

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because champions should epicly dominate scrubs. fedor doesn't wipe the floor with them. most of his matches are even, if not losing, then gets a knockout punch. he hasn't fought any finishers. lesnar and carwin are both big enough and strong enough to finish him off.

The only dominate champion really is probably Silva; he actually "played" with many opponents along with a pretty long mma career.

Being big and strong does not always mean you'll win; plenty of examples of this. Also, what are you to say if he wins all of his fights that way? What if, Lesnar is beating his ass, and then Fedor happens to catch Lesnar in a armbar or something? What if he's able to do this time after time?

Also, if you want to look at records; Mir's list of opponents along with Lesnar's can be scrutinized as much as Fedor's. Someone always makes excuses and form opinions as fact. Fact is, you do not know who would win until it happens; it's not as cut and dry as everyone puts it out to be.

brock lesnar has dominated all of his fights. without a doubt. he got caught with a rookie mistake by mir and lost the fight. and that can be debated that the fight could have been stopped due to brock pounding his face in.

i think that all of ufc's elite hw's are too strong to get caught in an arm bar or other manipulative submission.

i think most people would agree with me, if you want top competition, you must be in the UFC. if you want top pay, you must be in the UFC. if you want to pad your record, go to other promotions.

Fedor is a joke. i hate the fedor dick riders who just don't get it. he hasn't fucking fought anybody....in their prime.

lets take a look at his last few fights.

• Coleman, who at the time was two months short of his 42nd birthday;
• Mark Hunt, a massive kick boxer with a sub-.500 record;
• Matt Lindland, who has spent most of his career as a middleweight and is still competing at 185 pounds;
• Hong Man Choi, who is 7-feet-2 and more of a curiosity than a real fighter. He’s most notable for having fought Jose Canseco;
• Sylvia, who in his fight after losing to Emelianenko was beaten by 48-year-old boxer Ray Mercer, who himself was making his MMA debut;
•Arlovski, who lost his next two after losing to Emelianenko;
• And Brett Rogers, who only months before meeting Emelianenko had given up a job changing tires at Sam’s Club to train MMA full-time.

fight somebody fedor. you haven't fought fuck of anybody. and you hide behind your managers. dana white offered you the most lucrative contract in UFC history and you passed on it. bitch.

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While I agree about Fedor, using MMA Math doesn't work 99% of the time so I steer clear of that...

because champions should epicly dominate scrubs. fedor doesn't wipe the floor with them. most of his matches are even, if not losing, then gets a knockout punch. he hasn't fought any finishers. lesnar and carwin are both big enough and strong enough to finish him off.

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Although I boarded the Lesnar train long before he came into the UFC and I was one of a few that predicted his dominance, I wouldn't call Lesnar a fight finisher. He destroyed Heath Herrings orbital bone and knocked him on his ass, but could not earn the KO. Lesnar's wrestling is top notch but its along the lines of GSP's wrestling. He takes people down at will, gets on top and smothers them. Yes, he inflicts damage and the after fight pictures are not pretty but no, he doesn't generally KO his opponents.

I would pick both Lesnar and Carwin over Fedor. I think I'd also pick Alistair Overeem and Frank Mir over Fedor.

Fedor is smart and methodically and meticulously works through his fights (a la Randy Couture, Kenny Florian, GSP, and other "thinking" fighters). I was impressed how he picked his moment with Arvolski. That sort of timing would normally seem to be a fluke instance, but if you look at at Fedor's career - he's turned enough fights around that such instances can't be chalked up as dumb luck. Even with those credentials, I think that guys as big and athletic as Mir, Overeem, Carwin, and Lesnar would put holes in Fedor's head before he could side step them and catch them in a moment of glory. (Watch Fedor's brother - he plays possom and fights very similarly in many of his fights.)

As for Lesnar vs Carwin - I think that the fight comes down to who gets caught on the chin cleanly. I think Carwin will have a much better such given his more proficient boxing on his feet. However, I don't think Carwin has ever been hit by someone like Lesnar - so that if he does get a shot through, we'll see how solid Carwin is at this point. Same logic can be applied to Lesnar - I don't think he's been rocked by a comparable opponent at this point. I have a feeling that Carwin is going to be the first guy to ring his bell and he's not going to like the outcome.

I agree that Carwin will be Brock's biggest challenge to date but I don't see where u put Brock down for the Herring fight. His gameplan was to stay in the Octagon as long as possible and gain experience. He knew Herring posed no threat to him so he used the opportunity to gain experience. He has three other wins besides that one: Couture (TKO, stopped on the ground), Mir (TKO, stopped on the ground), and that nobody he fought (Submission, due to strikes, on the ground)

Lesnar has 4 wins: one by decision and three via a finish on the ground... exactly how does Lesnar not generally KO his opponents if half his victories are currently by TKO, and a third would have been if his opponent hadn't pussed out?

I agree that Carwin will be Brock's biggest challenge to date but I don't see where u put Brock down for the Herring fight. His gameplan was to stay in the Octagon as long as possible and gain experience. He knew Herring posed no threat to him so he used the opportunity to gain experience. He has three other wins besides that one: Couture (TKO, stopped on the ground), Mir (TKO, stopped on the ground), and that nobody he fought (Submission, due to strikes, on the ground)

Lesnar has 4 wins: one by decision and three via a finish on the ground... exactly how does Lesnar not generally KO his opponents if half his victories are currently by TKO, and a third would have been if his opponent hadn't pussed out?

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Quite honestly refs stop fights early for Brock because he gains a dominate position and smothers his opponents. The stoppages are more of pity stoppages by the refs.

With Lesnar's weight and strength, no one will ever be able to push him off of them. You'll have to be able to literally roll your way out of the position like Mir did when he subbed him with the knee bar. The fight basically becomes a clinic in wrestling spin drills when Lesnar gets on top. (I think you wrestled, so you should get the reference. His fights are basically like sudden death OT in wrestling where you win the match by riding the bottom guy out.)

Have you seen Lesnar KO anyone yet? Now have you seen Carwin KO anyone yet? That's the difference between the two fighters. Brocks dominates position and inflicts some damage, Carwin knocks his opponents unconscious.

Think of a GSP strategy versus a Chuck Liddell strategy. GSP goes for the win on the judge's scorecards. Liddell looks for the knockout so that the fight doesn't go to the scorecards.

Lesnar looks for the KO, but hasn't been able to manage one yet even though he goes out there with every intention of ending the fight early.

The Mir fight should have ended in the first 1 minute after Lesnar knocked him on his ass.
The Herring fight should have ended when he broke Herring's orbital bone.
Couture is 40+, Lesnar should have been able to lights out him.

To bring the conversation full circle, Lesnar's intentions WERE NOT to gain more experience in the octagon against Herring. He simply couldn't finish him. Lesnar is the type of guy that would like to end the fight in 30 seconds but just hasn't been able to due to his lack of expertise. If he had better hands and foot work that allowed him to slide a clean blow through to someone's chin - they'd be dead. Carwin is an example of what happens when a guy that size catches you on the chin.

now you are just arguing semantics, you would have been better off saying "oh wow, Lesnar does finish fights, good point"

KO, TKO, same diff. If the ref stops the fight the fight due to a KO of some type it's a KO. Lensar's finishes look different from Carwin's because Carwin's occur in the standing position that it's. Carwin gets cleaner knockouts because he has focused on boxing during his MMA training. Lesnar get's "hulk smash" style knockouts because he has focused on his ground game and is not concerned with being as accurate a striker. But Lesnar does far more damage, as I will show in a minute...

The fact that you think that refs stop Lesnar's fights out of sympathy shows (again) that you don't know what you are talking about. Lesnar was giving Couture love taps when the ref pulled him off but that was out of respect to Couture who Lesnar had already dropped with a straight right. Lesnar has always liked Randy and in fact the old man is helping Brock prepare for Carwin. One look at Lesnar/Mir 2 and you know exactly what Lesnar could have done to Couture had he been so inclined.

That said the idea that somehow Carwin can cause more damage is absurd...

here is Mir after UFC 100 (brock)

And here he is after fighting Carwin

Lesnar has not tried to end a fight in 30 seconds since his loss against Mir. Each of his fights have went into the second round or later, showing far more composure then we saw in his UFC debut...

I train to fight. I'm pretty sure I have a good idea of what I'm talking about. I'll rephrase what I said initially to more accurately articulate my point - Lesnar has FINISHED fights via TKO but is not a fighter that I would consider a KO artist/"a stop guys dead in their track" fighter. He's a "obtain dominate position, inflict whatever damage I can" fighter.

1) There's a huge difference between a KO and a TKO.

2) There's a clear difference in the crispness of Carwin's strikes versus those of Lesnar. Lesnar is a stronger individual yet he hasn't earned a single KO because he is simply raw power and aggression. While Carwin is still a monster, he is not as strong as Brock. However, Carwin is much more refined, allowing him to have well placed punches that knock people out cold.

3) Lesnar has attempted to end every fight early. Watch all of his fights again. You're proving my point. He has TRIED to end fights early but hasn't been able to end them at will. Watching him fight is like watching a smash and grab robbery. He has a clear physical and athletic advantage over his opponents that allows him to win - but I think when you put him in the ring with Carwin, I think there's a high likelihood that as long as Carwin can fend off the bull rush, that he could knock Lesnar out.

-Your pictures prove my point. Lesnar has literally tried to smash every opponents face in - resulting in bruises, blood and damage, but not KOs.

To quote myself from earlier in this thread;
"Yes, he inflicts damage and the after fight pictures are not pretty but no, he doesn't generally KO his opponents."

Mir doesn't look like a mess after Carwin, because a single well placed shot on the chin knocked him out cold. You're not going to see the same blood, bruising, etc with a chin shot. The worst you'll see is swelling from a broken jaw but that is far less noticeable than a broken orbital bone, smashed up nose, etc. Because his opponents are bloody, doesn't mean anything regarding his KO ability. It speaks to the point that he's not dishing out KOs but rather TKOs. Watch any of Mike Tyson's victims from when he was in his prime - the typical after fight photos are not of opponents that are bloodied messes.

If you think bruising and blood prove a point that Lesnar is a fight finisher, I bring you this;
That's damage inflicted by a 145lber. That fight went the full five rounds.

edited -
After photos of another fight that went to decision. Again - lighter weight fighters. 170lbs.

Everything I've said makes perfect sense, you're just too wrapped around what you have to say that you prefer not to open your eyes or ears to another person's opinion.

I've said the whole time that I'm a Lesnar fan and I defended the guy before he came to the UFC. The fact remains that he has not shown himself to be a knock out artist. You can call him a fight finisher because he's earned TKOs. I question all of the TKOs with the exception of the second Mir fight.

Couture is 40+ and a 205lber not a heavyweight. Min-Soo Kim is just a spectacle and not a fighter - he tapped to strikes. GTFO. Heath Herring is a nobody - not even a top 10 contender. If Lesnar lights out Carwin, I may change my opinion - depending on the circumstances of the victory.

Carwin gets cleaner knockouts because he has focused on boxing during his MMA training. Lesnar get's "hulk smash" style knockouts because he has focused on his ground game and is not concerned with being as accurate a striker.

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You have that right. Lesnar has a "hulk smash" style because he still doesn't know how to strike. Would I want to stand there and strike with him? Hell no, the man is a mountain, but he is still a one dimensional fighter. If someone could teach him foot work and how to throw a punch, he has the size and athleticism to knock anyone out.

At this point he hasn't shown that ability. For Carwin's sake, I hope that Lesnar doesn't develop that ability. The key to beating Lesnar is to use a Chuck Liddel style game plan. If anyone veers from that game plan and gets within Lesnar's reach, its game over. You can't reasonably believe that you'll be able to overpower someone of his stature, the only thing you can use to escape at that point is perfect technique.