This is a discussion on Table talk; where is your limit? within the online poker forums, in the General Poker section; I am curious what is your opinion and experience? When do you think it's fun and when does it become bullying? Is there a difference

I am curious what is your opinion and experience? When do you think it's fun and when does it become bullying? Is there a difference in playing online or in real live? Do you report some table talk and what is your boundary?

I mostly play online on Pokerstars and there are times that the language of some players is atrocious. Sometimes it's just childish, a bit silly or naive. Those times I just laugh in my head. When the language becomes racist, sexist or threatening, I report it to the moderator.

In my experience, people are seldom banned. The moderator just does his scripted talk; something like: "May I remind you to keep the chat friendly and fair. Thank you and good luck to all players" It seems that the moderator does not even look at what has been said, even when the talk is ultra racist or when death threats are made. Some players don't know when and where to stop.

In my opinion, the organiser of the game should stick to his rules and apply some kind of penalties after a warning. When a player keeps on being extremely rude, I think it's fair that he is being banned from chatting or even get a ban from playing for ex. a month.

I don't know if many of you follow the big live tournaments like WSOP or EPTLive. There you see that some players like talking and some of them don't say a word. In the latter case, it could be pretty boring to watch. I love hearing players like Daniel Negreanu. He is so funny and for me it's interesting to see how he tries to read his opponents in trying to talk with them.

That being said, there is one player, William Kassouf, that really gets on my nerves. Probably it is just my personal preference or in this case aversion, but when I hear him I feel real compassion for the other players at his table. Last WSOP a penalty was handed out to Kassouf for his table-talk 'taunting'. I don't want to say he deserved the penalty. I'm not sure. I just wonder what your opinion is.

If you didn't see it, you can find some highlights here:

The Will Kassouf Show at the WSOP 2016 Main Event...

or just the moment (before final table) when he got the penalty

Was the WSOP penalty fair? (Hand between William...

.

Anyhow, apart from Kassouf, I'm curious on all of your opions and experiences concerning table talk. Also: do you do it? Do you share your hand afterwards? Can you get a read on chat online?

#2

9th November 2016, 11:12 PM

Dunc8b [660]

Game: Holdem

When I started playing online, not so long ago, I left the Chat on. Then after one game where it was like watching some hormonal teenagers taunting each other I switched it off. It's been switched off ever since on any site i play on.

The one exception is the CC league games I play in and rail. It is now week 6 and with playing the within the same group of players for a while it's now nice to chat while playing. I can encourage my team mates and they do they same for me.

#3

9th November 2016, 11:25 PM

Jason Yocham [11]

I keep my chat turned off when playing online. I don't find it valuable to have dialogue online. In live games, I enjoy talking enough to be conversational but I don't go out of my way to talk.

How far is too far when it comes to trying to get into someone's head?

#4

10th November 2016, 3:04 AM

BigJamo [2,090]

Online Poker at: Poker Stars

Game: Hold'em/RAZZ

I dont talk while playing on-line unless its in the cardschat league events, were the player are worth talking too.

Live is a big social thing anyway and you cant change what peeps are gunns do, just have a good sense of humor is the best way.

#5

10th November 2016, 2:52 PM

Moonchild [132]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Mostly I don't talk online either, except when we get in the final stages of the game (MTT). F.ex. when 3 tables are left in a field of more than 3000 players. Even then it depends. It should not distract me.

But I wonder ... does anyone of you know William Kassouf?

#6

10th November 2016, 3:29 PM

shinedown.45 [5,236]

Online Poker at: pokerstars

Game: hold-em

As for you thinking that reporting doesn't work, I can tell you PS does it's job on this.
I have in fact been banned from chat for 24 hrs one time, I was angry and drunk and called a brazilian player an inbred wetback.
I have behaved ever since.

#7

10th November 2016, 6:40 PM

Sourtubbie [158]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: holdem

re: Poker & Table talk; where is your limit?

When it comes to banter directed at me I can take it all day long and often flip it back on the person attempting to get under my skin. But I do take offense to people picking on players that are obviously not of that ilk or new to the poker in general. So I often redirect the banter my way and that sorts things out but I often have chat closed if in is more then 5 players at a table. Just nothing interesting to be gained after that amount usually for me.

#8

10th November 2016, 8:52 PM

Moonchild [132]

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Originally Posted by shinedown.45

As for you thinking that reporting doesn't work, I can tell you PS does it's job on this.
I have in fact been banned from chat for 24 hrs one time, I was angry and drunk and called a brazilian player an inbred wetback.
I have behaved ever since.

I am so glad to hear that: that it works and you became a good boy!

#9

10th November 2016, 10:22 PM

vassiriki [135]

Poker at: pokerstars

i guess it might be a bit disturbing when it's really getting beyond limits. i, myself, do not talk that much when live or online, doesn't matter. however, i also got to know very kind people during conversations at a poker table. i've never been a fan of thrash talk though...

#10

10th November 2016, 11:06 PM

Amanda A [617]

Online Poker at: ACR

Game: holdem

I like focusing on the game when I'm playing but I can't say I've ever been offended by table talk either online or off. I am an Aussie though, so it probably takes a bit to offend me.

#11

10th November 2016, 11:10 PM

dbchristy [646]

Poker at: BOL ACR

Game: Holdem

I mostly block chat..ppl are meanies..lol

#12

10th November 2016, 11:33 PM

onondaga [2,273]

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Game: holdem

Thats not bad to discuss something when u are playing live games and not to easy to do it when online (cant chat when tea or coffee in one hand and playing by other one)/imo. About Kassouf, nice guy and play smart in own way

#13

10th November 2016, 11:46 PM

studaddy420 [241]

Poker at: ACR, BCP,

Game: holdem

if i'm playing live, i will usually limit my talking to the players left and right and directly across from me in between hands. i don't normally use talking to gain info if i'm in a hand and where i play, nobody else does either unless they're getting ready to fold.

#14

11th November 2016, 2:57 AM

roddypra [134]

Online Poker at: pokerstars

Game: Holdem

re: Poker & Table talk; where is your limit?

I try to keep some conversations with the online tables, however many do not like to talk. I think if u can extract the maximum information of the player is valid. And also helps to ease the tensions. In the live tables, sure a good dialogue. It helps a lot in all aspects.

#15

11th November 2016, 4:33 PM

Moonchild [132]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Thank you all for reacting, but I would like to go back to my original post. Do you sometimes report some table talk to the moderator and when/why do you do it. Mostly my reports don't have anything to do with chat directed to me, but to other players. Sometimes I am really startled/shoqued by what some people say and wish upon others. Some things I hear are just illegal in real life. For me, chatting with real people, is real life. You might call me naive, considering everything being said on f.ex. social media. But I'd rather stay naive and keep my values than accepting disgusting behavior.

#16

16th November 2016, 12:31 AM

quick [907]

Online Poker at: Bovada

Game: NLHE

Online is pretty brutal talk. Insults, name calling, rants, etc. I think I may switch it off in most cases but i have occasionally had good conversation in the chat boxes before. It's a lot easier to berate someone online than live of course and even I have fallen victim to saying some not so nice things online which I am working on because it's bad for poker, bad for me, and just bad in general!

Live, I usually say hi when a new player sits, esp next to me. Most respond. I'm not super chatty live, but I will jump into a conversation if it's something interesting and obviously not just between the two or three conversing. Sometimes players next to me like to chat and poke fun at other players (usually when everyone seems to have ID'd the fish or the reckless aggro guy). And if someone opens a conversation with me I'm not going to ignore them unless I'm in a hand OR their in the hand with me fishing for info.

Some players give away a little too much info or borderline cross what many would consider to be proper table rules. For example: I had a player the other night on multiple occasions show me his cards and smile and laugh (I wasn't in the hand and it was against the guy we had all figured out was on reckless aggro tilt). I didn't respond to this until the hand was over, I didn't want to 1.) accidentally reveal an expression or something and give away his hand or 2.) worse be accused of some sort of collusion. Wait until the hand is over and dead if you want to show your cards! I also think it's poor taste and against the rules in many rooms to discuss what you had before the hand is over.

I think it's ok for other players live to talk about another player, I think it's a bit of a head game though. Clearly the other player may notice this. As long as it's not vulgar or personally insulting I think it's ok if you're discussing or joking about misplayed hands or something. Some may disagree.

The only time I felt a line was truly crossed was live a few months ago. Guy next to me was a reg, somewhat aggro and kept getting called down over and over by some drunk guy who said it was his birthday. Well Birthday boy couldn't keep his mouth shut and kept poking the guy verbally with things like "well yeah I'm calling you down with 104o with my paired 4 even though there's two aces, 3 hearts, and a K, because you keep trying to bluff me, all day I'm taking your money." The line was crossed when he took a third buy in from the reg and the reg quietly said to me and the guy on other side of him "unbelievable, i mean really" or something. Birthday boy proudly showed his cards, collected the pot, THEN after the hand was dead looks directly at the guy laughs and goes "I think it's so great that I took yet another stack off you" and went on for about 30 seconds about how "fitting" and "satisfying" it was to take "your money in particular." He clearly targeted the guy over and over and IMO crossed the line with this berating after he beat him, took his money, and continued to brag.

The table agreed and multiple players told the guy to slow it down. Someone called clock on birthday boy once or twice, floor started keeping closer eye on him. He eventually took his birthday win and left. But really, don't personally target and rub it in like that. Not cool. That kind of stuff will get you finding people waiting outside to have a few words with you in some places. Speak with your chips and play fair.

#17

16th November 2016, 2:55 AM

teepack [2,066]

Poker at: ACR

Game: holdem

I like to chat online but only friendly stuff. However if I think a player is being rude or abusive to another player I will start talkIng smack to the bully. we need bad players to win every once in a while or they will quit coming back. If they feel bullied they may stop playing.

#18

16th November 2016, 8:11 AM

fly2tsky [184]

Online Poker at: pokerstars

Kassouf is one of my rare example that went beyond my insulting standard but still gaining my interests. Because he's a lawyer. Thats what lawyer usually do, they dig in to get more informations & manipulate mindset. I think it depends. I usually consider someone not by their appearance or tone, but education background, mood, and such.

#19

16th November 2016, 8:59 AM

marakhovskii [513]

I heard curses and threats many times at all limits but I always smile

#20

16th November 2016, 9:14 AM

fletchdad [8,156]

Online Poker at: Weddings

Game: holdem

This is all about online playing:

I usually report chat if it goes over a line. It does not matter if it is at me or not. Sometimes I have too many tables open, but I always try to report excessive chat if I don't lose my focus in my games.

I love table talk, and banter. Honestly, sometimes I can go kind of over the line without realizing it. But I really don't like when no one's talking, live or online. It's a bigger problem online, usually.

#22

16th November 2016, 6:35 PM

roddypra [134]

Online Poker at: pokerstars

Game: Holdem

It's good to talk to people, but online you'll find many people cursing you when you beat his hand. I have made friends and I have them until today interacting in the online mode. I even started to create a group and play with each other. When there is respect, you have everything to do well in the game. But the interaction, besides gathering information about the adversary, is a great way to spend time in the game.

#23

16th November 2016, 6:37 PM

ds276 [250]

There is nothing bad to communicate at a table. But very often one-two inadequate persons who the aggression and weak-mindedness crosses out all desire to communicate in a chat come across. Such people minority, but they meet. When the pleasant atmosphere at a table - communication is possible. If it becomes intolerable, then I disconnect a chat or I ignore the player. I wish all pleasant interlocutors, strong hands and victories.

#24

17th November 2016, 7:53 PM

Vonick [219]

Game: holdem

I personally avoid talking at a table.its rude for the other player too!

#25

18th November 2016, 4:38 PM

Moonchild [132]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Originally Posted by Vonick

I personally avoid talking at a table.its rude for the other player too!

Why do you think it is rude talk to at the table? Put some people together on a table and you have a social activity, so I think it's normal and even more pleasant when there's some talking. Better for poker and for humanity. To be clear, it can be different when playing online. It's also there where I see the most trash talk. In that case it's rude and there should be consequences for it. IMO.

That being said: some ettiquette is essential. Ofcourse there are some things that are forbidden, like talking about the cards during the hand. Doh! Sometimes I even see it go wrong here online. Sadly! But if you're not criticizing players before, during, or after a hand table talk within the rules is just fine by me. Sometimes it is boring or distracting, but most of the times it is interesting and entertaining, especially in live poker. Also for those watching.

#26

18th November 2016, 5:18 PM

Nintendo [284]

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Game: Holdem

I like to talk a bit live. Not much online unless I feel lik expressing frustration at times.

#27

21st November 2016, 6:38 PM

Zokac71 [34]

I do not turn off the chat, but sometimes it annoys me so much that I just have to turn it off, because some people have no borders, and it distracts you from the game.

#28

21st November 2016, 8:28 PM

antonis32123 [1,758]

Online Poker at: pokerstars

Game: holdem

re: Poker & Table talk; where is your limit?

What Will Kassuf was doing , he was obviously using psycological warfare tactics and language on his opponents , all the package , his moves ,his voice tone , the irritating speech , if he had the right he would revile/call names on other players , especially the women I guess ,all these way too much out of line ,all this is abuse of his and all the others players' rights so it's unacceptable . When I play and I dont want anybody to bully on me I because the game is so important (it's a final table or sth like that ) I switch off the chat , and I think this is the most appropriate method to deal with guys who try to bully you and make you lose your temper .Even on cardschat games you can see that sometimes , I was playing final and sb was calling me donkey and fish (you know , with the images/icons/smileys the pokerstars software has) all the time ,I didn't swhitch off the chat then unfortunatelly and he affected me cause I was very nervous and this is my charachter . There were sometimes I lost a pot to donkeys and I called them donkey or fish on pokerschool league . Is this right or wrong ?? I guess it's poker , sometimes , from agression you might say sth more than you should , but generally this has to be controlled , you must behave yourself , you should not overdo it with repeated annoyance , there is difference between sb who calls you once sth and sb who does it all the time , sb who call you sth that all use like fish and sb who says sth for your sexuality or family. Of course then you switch off the chat or you sue him cause pokerstars mods don't do anything I assure you , that is checked ,if they ban from chat for 1 day or 2 days , sure , big deal....

#29

21st November 2016, 8:47 PM

dutch_nick53 [5]

Poker at: 888

Game: holdem

table talk

it's fine by me most people just dig their own holes to crawl into as long as it stays within the given rules not stating who passed what cards ect is all fair in love and poker. Will Kassuf haha what a guy just uses his aura to put people on tilt 10/10

#30

21st November 2016, 9:14 PM

TiReX [75]

Game: NL Holdem

Why would you disable chat?Many poker rooms have the ability to disable messages for a specific person(if he wrote all.....).I chat is not turned off,and indeed there is much not written,in very rare cases.And the "crying" we are not paying attention.Occasionally I may write something would stop whining)

#31

29th November 2016, 11:40 PM

Moonchild [132]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Dunc8b (https://www.cardschat.com/members/dunc8b/)The one exception is the CC league games I play in and rail. It is now week 6 and with playing the within the same group of players for a while it's now nice to chat while playing. I can encourage my team mates and they do they same for me.
I agree, mostly. I did got the feeling that the chat on Ccgames is nice, sometimes very funny and friendly. But I don't want to be an ass here sometimes I think it's a bit too friendly. Don't understand me wrong. I hate it when chat becomes vulgar, aggressive or just childish, but I have noticed that on Ccgames, some people tend to make felicitations about so many hands. Many times they loose their hand to another one, they say: NH, even when the hand wasn't that nice or special or Of course I rather have this then hate talk, but sometimes it doesn't feel real for me. Not really sincere or necessary do you understand what I mean? To me it sometimes looks as if we have to be 100% politically correct, because we're all friends of CC. In the end we just stay rivals. Everyone wants to win, no? Again, I think it's great that someone gets congratulated if he/she makes a great move, but it bothers me a bit when I hear it all the time like we're in a competition of friendliness instead of poker. When you're railing for someone it's another thing, but in the game I think it's weird to keep on encouraging the opponents.

Jason Yocham (https://www.cardschat.com/members/jason-yocham/) How far is too far when it comes to trying to get into someone's head?
There are 2 things I want to say about that. To be clear I'll speak about online poker, 'cause that's what I do. One: there are things that are just forbidden, but what I see sometimes in online poker: f.ex. Talking about the hand while the hand is still in action or announcing chip dumping. And two: etiquette: talking in other languages, racist, obscene or extremely insulting talk, Pokerstars even has in its rules that things like that are strictly forbidden. It's 'cause of that why I started this thread. I wasn't speaking about my own feelings, but more about rules and when you report violations.

BigJamo (https://www.cardschat.com/members/bigjamo/) Live is a big social thing anyway and you cant change what peeps are gunns do, just have a good sense of humor is the best way.
I do agree with that last part. But I'm not sure that you're right with saying one cannot change what 'peeps or guns do'. I presume you mean that some people shoot ugly language as guns? In that case, I think there can be something done. It's not that I let it influence my game, but I think I can keep my cool and humor on the one hand and be disgusted by the language at the same time. When the lines are really crossed (for me), f.ex. When death threats are made, disgusting racist talk, I feel an intern obligation to report it. For me it's the same thing in real life. F.ex. When I hear my neighbor saying real offensive things to his wife, I gently intervene com'on guy, that's not necessary. That must hurt her. Peace! Something like that. Maybe it helps that I'm a girl, so the aggressiveness doesn't turn to me. I always was like that. Bullying will never stop if no one does anything about it or just laugh it away. And I am not talking about the person that is being bullied, but about the witnesses.

quick: Online is pretty brutal talk. Insults, name calling, rants, etc. I think I may switch it off in most cases but i have occasionally had good conversation in the chat boxes before. It's a lot easier to berate someone online than live of course and even I have fallen victim to saying some not so nice things online which I am working on because it's bad for poker, bad for me, and just bad in general!
Good one! I totally agree.

Some players give away a little too much info or borderline cross what many would consider to be proper table rules. For example: I had a player the other night on multiple occasions show me his cards and smile and laugh (I wasn't in the hand and it was against the guy we had all figured out was on reckless aggro tilt). I didn't respond to this until the hand was over, I didn't want to 1.) accidentally reveal an expression or something and give away his hand or 2.) worse be accused of some sort of collusion. Wait until the hand is over and dead if you want to show your cards! I also think it's poor taste and against the rules in many rooms to discuss what you had before the hand is over.
So true. Like I said above, this is why I started this thread and I was especially interested in when someone intevenes, f.ex. by reporting the table talk. Sadly, not to many people did the voting or explained when they do so. Like so often, people seem to read one sentence and just react quickly.
I think it's ok for other players live to talk about another player, I think it's a bit of a head game though. Clearly the other player may notice this. As long as it's not vulgar or personally insulting I think it's ok if you're discussing or joking about misplayed hands or something. Some may disagree.
I do agree that that is a part of the game. Mentally challenging the others, but as you said as long as it's not vulgar or personally insulting.

Speak with your chips and play fairVery nicely said, sir!

#32

30th November 2016, 12:11 AM

Erpherk [161]

Online Poker at: Bet Online

Game: NL Holdem

i sometimes say dumb things when i'm bored and ready for action. i say things like "Please stop calling my bluffs it hurts my feelings" Just dumb stuff like that, sometimes the players will say something funny in response. If other players are chatting or in a argument, I just watch and laugh to myself. This 1 guy on BoL spammed the chat and i think he got banned.. he just vanished from tourney, i checked the tourney list to see if he got moved to another table, but his name was not on the list anywhere. I never saw someone get banned in the middle of a tourney like that, was crazy.

#33

30th November 2016, 12:27 AM

Moonchild [132]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Originally Posted by Erpherk

i sometimes say dumb things when i'm bored and ready for action. i say things like "Please stop calling my bluffs it hurts my feelings" Just dumb stuff like that, sometimes the players will say something funny in response. If other players are chatting or in a argument, I just watch and laugh to myself. This 1 guy on BoL spammed the chat and i think he got banned.. he just vanished from tourney, i checked the tourney list to see if he got moved to another table, but his name was not on the list anywhere. I never saw someone get banned in the middle of a tourney like that, was crazy.

You: Funny! I think it's relaxing when people start to talk like that. It makes the online gaming more 'personal'. Do you understand what I mean? That's it' not only you, your pc and some weird names on a table. For me that kind of table talk makes the game more enjoyable for me.

The other guy (The 1 on Bol)-> karma! Maybe he talked himself into a heart attack, fell on his keyboard, logged out that way and died ... alone.