It's not so much the people that don't want healthcare reform as the insurance companies don't want healthcare reform. They've been very clever at
getting the more easily fooled among us to panic and believe in death panels, red tape and all kinds of socialist, communist boogeymen under every
rug.

You gotta respect an opponent that's so successful at getting people to go against their own best interests so vehemently though.

The family has been coming up in the media more frequently. Lets do what is called for, and find out what these "Family" members have in common.

I would bet that they share other memberships in common, and we could start finding the root of this structure. If this is clearly defined, it would
be possible to create a sh**storm behind it and the buzz alone could make them all look bad.

That could create momentum, and make them out to be the bad guys they really are, turning the tides towards health care reform.

But hey, they worship Jesus! But not the one in the bible, and they are not christian. I'm not either. But isn't this blasphemy in itself? Akin to
worshipping an idol of a bull?

All we need to find out is what these family members have in common. It could easily be a gateway into the more powerful group(s), and most likely is!

Just a quick scan, I always start at the bottom of bills, found something quick for my ATS family. I guess the government is going to solve cancer
within the next 30 years

because they wrote it into legislation. What is also funny, is now the government is going to determine what research
to do in medicine and what treatments are going to be used. So much for choices of the patient or the doctor.

Who wants to tell me these people have no intention of taking over everything?

From top link on whatukno post

‘‘(A) shall take into consideration only
11 those projects that show reasonable potential—
12 ‘‘(i) to result in new therapies—
13 ‘‘(I) to treat areas of unmet med
14 ical need, or
15 ‘‘(II) to prevent, detect, or treat
16 chronic or acute diseases and condi
17 tions,
18 ‘‘(ii) to reduce long-term health care
19 costs in the United States, or
20 ‘‘(iii) to significantly advance the goal
21 of curing cancer within the 30-year period
22 beginning on the date the Secretary estab
23 lishes the program under paragraph (1),

edit to fix bad paste
edit to add reply to for the exact thing you said the government will not do
(it took me 3 minutes to scan for this-suggestion, always start at the bottom of laws, that is where they sneak their control in)

I literally said, "pppfffffffffftttttttttttttt" outloud when I read this rant. Why might you ask? Simply because FDA regulations on drugs and
malpractices actually contribute heavily to healthcare costs.

Let's dive into the issue with malpractice. Doctors pay insane amounts to insure against malpractice. This drives up their prices to patients.
Also, to cover malpractice issues doctors order an extreme amount of testing be done to make sure they are not getting a wrong diagnosis. This is not
an easily measurable issue in terms of cost to the consumer.

Pharmacuticals: FDA regulations drive up the cost of drugs due to extremely strict standards. This is why people who live on the border of Mexico
love buying their drugs there. It is far more time consuming and expensive for generics to get approved in the USA.

Many of these issues are why in part we have available the best healthcare in the world. However, it also why we also have one of the most expensive
systems.

I would like to have the choice of:
-Going to a doctor who doesn't have as much malpractice coverage but is cheaper and possibly a bit less safe or, if I can afford it, going to a
doctor who is covered heavily against malpractice and will give the greatest quality of healthcare available for a higher price
-Buying cheap generic drugs that might not have the same standards of quality and may be a bit less safe or, if I can afford it, buying the top notch
name brand drugs that have the FDAs stamp of supreme quality, safety, and approval for a higher price

I already have these choices but I would like to see a larger disparity and more cheaper options.

There is no right wing cult....its simply the AMA(american medical association) that is blocking national healthcare because they don't want price
caps on medication and doctor fees....

National healthcare is good for 200+ nations throughout the world but never good enough for america. Thats the price one pays for living in
ultra-capitalist nation! I see a lot of people frowning on governmental involvement saying "they can't do anything right"....maybe thats because
they get paid to MESS THINGS UP rather than fix anything.

does anyone really think that you have to destroy a system that is 1/6th of our economy to take care of 15% of the population?
add a trillion to the national debt?
and still wind up with 17 million uninsured?

has anyone stopped to think about the unemployment of the insurance workers?
this will mean less money into the system,hence more debt.

has anyone realized that this is the only solvent enterprise left in our country i think obama and his buddies just can't stand passing up that money
or the total control they get by raping this last major bastion of capitalism.

just remember..."i don't want to run a car company". "i don't want to nationalize banks"
"the stimulus is an emergency!"
"healthcare is an emergency,and has to be done riight away!!!"
"we need another stimulus!!!! quick!!"

the only thing missing from these statements is the phrase,"before americans figure out what we're doing!"

All I can say to the left is keep it up. Keep using strawman tactics, the race card and every dirty trick imaginable to try and force your agenda down
people's throats.

Everyone I speak to from every political direction reached the point of saturation on this crap a long time ago. The "big lie" is not a daily method
and using it as such just educates the populace. We've reached the point of the "big turd" method of propaganda as I like to call it.

Want an example? The democrats want to pass this excellent, completely fair and reasonable alteration to the American system of (fill in the blank)
but they cannot because a few evil, racists, extreme right-wing, Nazi chopper riding, Jesus freaks are standing in the way. Yes, we realize that's
only a handful of people but we want to paint everyone with the "freak brush" who stands in our way and for whatever reason the media seems to
really like it and helps push the thing downhill.

I wish the left would learn from the mistakes of the right. Don't support a big pile o crap just because it's "your" parties pile o crap. After
all the noise about Bush I can't believe the left is doing it let alone doing it harder, further and faster.

Pretty much all politicians are evil bastards. It doesn't matter which party they belong to, they all work for the system. They don't call it the
World's second -oldest profession for no reason. Politicians are whores in slightly nicer neighborhoods, full stop.

The eventual health care bill will be fair, affordable and fix every problem just like the Acme slingshot kit helps coyotes catch roadrunners 100% of
the time. Don't go into politics like a 4yr old on cartoon day.

actually hc premiums will go up. you have the thing backwards. the government will handle the same money and more in taxes,rather than free
enterprise.
yes,and according to ron paul,it's unconstitutional.
but when has this admin ever cared about the big C ?

That's right, and after they are done, they will put that up on the net so you can read what they changed as well. Just because a bill goes into a
committee doesn't mean that it all of a sudden is going to be law. We still are a long way to go on this and I assure you that any changes are going
to be looked at critically by people on here as well as people in your favorite news media of choice.

If we instead dump a trillion dollars into Nanotechnology Medical Application research then we could just cure all major diseases within 5-10 years.
We could probably even cure death, and eliminate obesity with such advancements. We are on the cusp of this anyways, so why not?

This doesn't even take into account the ultra advanced technologies that our Military Industrial Complex already has that make our most advanced
public technologies look like antiques...

grover, I'm creeped out by this group, too, as I am over a few other groups.

Anyway, when you have men (mostly), who are put into positions of
power, whose belief is that God wants them to rule, that no matter what they do they are automatically forgiven, that the weak are to be left in a
morass of their own making, it smacks of abusive power.

Gee, who wouldn't want to rule because of "divine right"? Sounds good to me, if you like authoritarianism.

No wonder corporations can take
over. Feed this type of power hungry men a little money (symbol of power) or false illusions of corporate power, why they'll be ready to work closely
with the source of that power.

This is bad power play. We lock up the pervert who exposes himself in public, without realizing we're being exposed to this type of perversion of
power. At least the corner pervert has no vote that affects my day to day life.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
does anyone really think that you have to destroy a system that is 1/6th of our economy to take care of 15% of the population?

add a trillion to the national debt?
and still wind up with 17 million uninsured?

Last time I heard/read about 30% of the american population was uninsured! That means almost 100 MILLION PEOPLE!

And why would we add more debt? Obviously you don't know what you are talking about because the money would be paid directly through taxation and the
government has no reason to borrow funds. Unless of course a republican administration decides to divert national healthcare funds to the
military-industrial complex. They are quite notorious in this regard.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
has anyone stopped to think about the unemployment of the insurance workers?
this will mean less money into the system,hence more debt.

Your wrong again! People who work for private insurance companies are hardly skilled in anything other than public relations. These people can get a
job in just about any non-technical field.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
has anyone realized that this is the only solvent enterprise left in our country i think obama and his buddies just can't stand passing up that money
or the total control they get by raping this last major bastion of capitalism.

A lot of countries are capitalist but that doesn't mean they have to rape the customer with ever increasing insurance premiums. Free enterprise
means insurance companies, hospitals and doctors can charge anything they want, whenever they want.

With a national healthcare plan the government would impose price cap limits so just about anyone could afford that plan. Even if you make a million
dollars per year why would you want to spend it on healthcare and not use that money to go on vacation or buy a new car?

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
just remember..."i don't want to run a car company". "i don't want to nationalize banks"
"the stimulus is an emergency!"
"healthcare is an emergency,and has to be done riight away!!!"
"we need another stimulus!!!! quick!!"

Boy oh boy this is patently false for soooooo manyyyy reasons!

First of all the govermnent SHOULD GET INVOLVED in everyone's affairs including corporations and lobby groups because they SHOULD BE ABOVE EVERYONE!
If I have a few people ABOVE THE GOVERNMENT dictating terms TO THE GOVERNMENT then it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that our
government, or any government for that matter, WOULD BE CORRUPT AS HELL!

Second, they should never have to bail out anyone, ESPECIALLY NOT private banks and corporations. That is not socialism my friend, that right there
is FASCISM...taking money from the working class through taxation and lending it to the banks so they can lend us back OUR MONEY. Don't you see just
how stupid that is?

And then we have national healthcare WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN PASSED A LONG TIME AGO but the same idiots who gave out bail money are the ones blocking
it. These people are pure fascists and don't give a penny about the people. I am sooo furious its not funny at all!!!

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