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Re: [Round 1 - Team 7 vs Team 9 Singles 2] Hiyoshi vs Matsudaira

From what I've seen, flower seem to completely dominate National! Shiraishi. He can't get a point off flower until he takes off his gauntlet, which push him to another level. I view Shiraishi as a much much stronger player than Hiyoshi. As such, I don't think Hiyoshi can break flower serve at all. Moreover, flower doesn't seem to have any drawback on its usage. Matsudaira will probably take this.

Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

Re: [Round 1 - Team 7 vs Team 9 Singles 2] Hiyoshi vs Matsudaira

Hiyoshi was able to return Tanhuessier serve or w/e from Atobe, a serve that dominated Echizen for most of their match. I think he would be able to return his serves eventually. Other than his serve-- Flower man has not really shown much else, other than losing to Hakamada in singles.
Hiyoshi is sorta being hyped up as the next hyotei captain parallel to Kaidoh, so maybe they are around a similar level, with Kaidoh prolly above him.

At this point it is still tough to decide who would win.

Also-- Hiyoshi did go through the mountain training too-- so he has prolly improved quite a bit since then.

Re: [Round 1 - Team 7 vs Team 9 Singles 2] Hiyoshi vs Matsudaira

I'd say it's a very close match when you pit Matsudaira against Hiyoshi.

Matsudaira's serve Flower dominated Akaya and Nationals!Shiraishi which is definitely saying something. Matsudaira has above average stats everywhere, with a 5 in Speed and 4s in Power and Stamina. His Technique and Mental are at 3s, which isn't bad (although certainly not a strength.)

On the other hand, Hiyoshi is set to be Hyotei's next captain. His match against Atobe at the beginning of Shin has allowed him to overcome his weakness of direct combat. It says that he used to only guard against attack but he now attacks directly. His Enbu Tennis is also his natural style of playing (I dunno, I feel playing naturally and not having to force learn your technique makes it easier for you) and he also went to the mountain training. I'm quite sure he will return Flower at some point during the match after a few games.

As I said, it's a close match, but in the end Matsudaira will take the match 6-4 or 7-6. Hiyoshi has improved enough that he will be able to keep up with Matsudaira after a few games. However, it will take him more than one game to return Flower and in the end , that's what is going to cost him the match.

Re: [Round 1 - Team 7 vs Team 9 Singles 2] Hiyoshi vs Matsudaira

Originally Posted by FrostyMouse

We just haven't seen such abilities, Letal. Sure, you can prophesy forward, but that's completely unknown territory. Based on what we do know, Matsu wins easily.

Not necessarily. Hiyoshi needed some kind of rising shot to return Tannhauser, and unless his racket gets blown away, that might very well render Flower useless. And even lower tiered MSers like Hiyoshi shouldn't get dominated in stats by 3rd court players at this point anymore.

Re: [Round 1 - Team 7 vs Team 9 Singles 2] Hiyoshi vs Matsudaira

Originally Posted by Kaoz

Not necessarily. Hiyoshi needed some kind of rising shot to return Tannhauser, and unless his racket gets blown away, that might very well render Flower useless. And even lower tiered MSers like Hiyoshi shouldn't get dominated in stats by 3rd court players at this point anymore.

Hiyoshi gets the front foot hop thing, but you do have to remember that he'd seen Atobe hit THS hundreds of times in practice. Plus, that's specifically designed to nullify a ground hovering shot, whereas Flower operates like a normal serve without any of that ground business. I know that Matsu's quick, but he lacks mental strength. I just don't think Hiyoshi can do enough to damage Matsu's mental.

We've yet to see that FFH is useful agaiinst anything other than THS, and by extension other ground hovering shots such as Houou Gaeshi and Cool Drive.

The core of Hiyoshi's game, that Enbu Tennis, really isn't very strong. Yes, Hiyoshi has leveled up to some degree, but he's still pretty weak. Ignoring that pointless hype about him being the next Captain of Hyoutei, Hiyoshi is limited. Even though he gains a boost to his stats when he uses Enbu Tennis, Matsu is quick and won't be outfought by it. Hiyoshi lacks any kind of serve to hurt Matsu with (and doesn't have even a worthwhile flat serve), so Matsu could take initiative through the service return.

You have to remember that while the 3rd Court players didn't have amazing stats in the grand scheme of things, players like Hiyoshi were so far below their level that he'd need a significant boost to come up to their level. I don't see Elimination Matches!Hiyoshi being able to do much against Nakagauchi, whereas I think Momo could. Sure, Momo has leveled up drastically since his loss to Oni, but even before then, players at Momo's level had less far to go than Hiyoshi did.

Re: [Round 1 - Team 7 vs Team 9 Singles 2] Hiyoshi vs Matsudaira

Originally Posted by FrostyMouse

Hiyoshi gets the front foot hop thing, but you do have to remember that he'd seen Atobe hit THS hundreds of times in practice. Plus, that's specifically designed to nullify a ground hovering shot, whereas Flower operates like a normal serve without any of that ground business. I know that Matsu's quick, but he lacks mental strength. I just don't think Hiyoshi can do enough to damage Matsu's mental.

We've yet to see that FFH is useful agaiinst anything other than THS, and by extension other ground hovering shots such as Houou Gaeshi and Cool Drive.

You have to hit both right after they touch the ground, the principle is exactly the same. There's no reason why it shouldn't work against Flower. Give him a game for adaption if you want, but I doubt he'll be overwhelmed by it for the whole match.

Originally Posted by FrostyMouse

The core of Hiyoshi's game, that Enbu Tennis, really isn't very strong. Yes, Hiyoshi has leveled up to some degree, but he's still pretty weak. Ignoring that pointless hype about him being the next Captain of Hyoutei, Hiyoshi is limited. Even though he gains a boost to his stats when he uses Enbu Tennis, Matsu is quick and won't be outfought by it. Hiyoshi lacks any kind of serve to hurt Matsu with (and doesn't have even a worthwhile flat serve), so Matsu could take initiative through the service return.

It's true that Matsu's fast, but Enbu Tennis is an usual style and not necessarily something he's seen before. As such, he can probably be thrown off balance with it which partly negates the high speed. And when you say Hiyoshi doesn't have anything else, Matsu doesn't really have anything outside of Flower either, something that shouldn't last him the whole match.

Originally Posted by FrostyMouse

You have to remember that while the 3rd Court players didn't have amazing stats in the grand scheme of things, players like Hiyoshi were so far below their level that he'd need a significant boost to come up to their level. I don't see Elimination Matches!Hiyoshi being able to do much against Nakagauchi, whereas I think Momo could. Sure, Momo has leveled up drastically since his loss to Oni, but even before then, players at Momo's level had less far to go than Hiyoshi did.

What kind of stats would you give Elimination!Hiyoshi, Shuffle!Hiyoshi and G10!Hiyoshi then?

Re: [Round 1 - Team 7 vs Team 9 Singles 2] Hiyoshi vs Matsudaira

@Kaoz,

Fayte and FrostyMouse are right in that Hiyoshi hasn't shown he can be at that level.
Unfortunately for him he was paired with Mukahi, so I won't be judging him too much on the Natonals Quarterfinals match.

But against Atobe, it was stated Atobe wasn't playing seriously and just wanted to make it a long game.
I mean, he used his 2-Part smash ONCE lol.
He never used anything else besides THS which Hiyoshi should know very well.

He's still good though, but after we saw Matsudaira do damage against Kirihara and Shiraishi like that, I mean... What chance should Hiyoshi really have?
And why on earth should we assume G10!Hiyoshi is different from Shuffle!Hiyoshi?

Not everybody was making big improvements from Mountain training as we already discussed many times before.
If Kenya, Marui, Gin, Oishi, Shiraishi*, Kirihara* haven't shown significant improvement since Nationals, why should Hiyoshi show a big jump?

*Shiraishi only removed a weight.
*Angel Mode is Doubles with Shiraishi only according to Pair Puri

All in all, based on what we have seen, Enbu Tennis shouldnt stun somebody who stunned Nationals!Kirihara and Nationals!Shiraishi. Individuals who are levels above Hiyoshi.