spc wrote:Not surprised that you cant understand my point so I will bolden it for you...Try to stay with me:

Volunteer soldiers do not volunteer to die to save the legacy of a failed President!

So these men & woman that are enlisting & re-enlisting beyond DOD goals are what, delusional?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/447463/defense_department_recruiting_reenlistment.htmlThis link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

Devil5052 wrote:DOD goals have been drasticaly reduced just so they can report meeting/exceeding them, recruit standards have been reduced to the point that they are recruiting criminals right out of jail & DOD is paying huge $$$$$$$ "Incdentives" (bribes) to keep GI's in the service.Wake up man, & turn off Fox News every so often!

I'll try again. So these men & woman that are enlisting & re-enlisting beyond DOD goals are what, delusional?

OK....I'm a little calmer now so here is your answer:

Since DOD's goal last month was to recruit TWO new soldiers & they actualy got THREE ( Bob, Larry & Scott) , I will conceed that they "exceeded" their goals! (what motivations Bob & Larry had are unknown, but I will guess that they were somewhat enticed by the $50,000.00 cash bonus to pay for last year's heating charges & Scott will report for duty as soon as he gets out of the county jail)

Devil5052 wrote:Since DOD's goal last month was to recruit TWO new soldiers & they actualy got THREE ( Bob, Larry & Scott) , I will conceed that they "exceeded" their goals! (what motivations Bob & Larry had are unknown, but I will guess that they were somewhat enticed by the $50,000.00 cash bonus to pay for last year's heating charges & Scott will report for duty as soon as he gets out of the county jail)

The Army is exceeding retention goals. That means soldiers that have done a tour in Iraq are volunteering to go back. To embolden the enemy is to stick a knife in the backs of our service men & woman. It's funny, the enemy knows the only way to win this war is to crush the spirit of the American people. Sad to say, but it seems to be working. All I can say is God bless our military.

spc wrote:Not surprised that you cant understand my point so I will bolden it for you...Try to stay with me:

Volunteer soldiers do not volunteer to die to save the legacy of a failed President!

So these men & woman that are enlisting & re-enlisting beyond DOD goals are what, delusional?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/447463/defense_department_recruiting_reenlistment.htmlThis link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

DOD goals have been drasticaly reduced just so they can report meeting/exceeding them, recruit standards have been reduced to the point that they are recruiting criminals right out of jail & DOD is paying huge $$$$$$$ "Incdentives" (bribes) to keep GI's in the service.Wake up man, & turn off Fox News every so often![/quote]

That's offensive. I recieved small SRBs in the beginning of my career. Those SRBs were excessively small compared to what 1st and 2nd termers were getting just before and after 9/11. In 1984 the USMC offered me a signing bonus. The Navy did not. I thought 1980's base pay was low but you should hear the pay stories of the service members that served in the 70's, 60's, 50's. Personally I don't think younger service members started getting paid what they deserved until the 2000's. Base pay increases yearly a small percentage. Allowances for younger, unmarried service members started becoming available I believe in early 2000 or 2001 (Icould be wrong with those dates). Huge $$$$$ incentives (bribes)????? IF this is true and not just an opinion...then I say GOD BLESS it is about time!!!!!

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

It begins with the oath.

I re-read my last post and I don't think I was clear about the offense. It's NOT all about the money. The bonus is truly an incentive. The last bonus I accepted was $8000 ($4000 upon re-enlistment the rest divide over the years in annual installments. I was ready to get out because I did not care for some of the things that were going on in Washington and other personal things. My wife and I struggled over this decision and it came down to having a great wife that kept me in. Today, I am very proud of that decision and I am very proud of her. She never spent a day in the military but that does not mean that she did not serve her country by keeping me in. She is a true patriot. Believe me...it's not all about the money that keeps people in!

My neighbor's two boys re-enlisted too... They are not idiots with wool pulled over their eyes... They went back, into 'harm's way' to continue the work in Iraq...because they see what is really happening over there, and the good being done.

I can't see any greater testimony to what we are doing in Iraq other than the reinlistment rates of the soldiers who have actually been there.. I DO NOT believe our leftist media.. There is too much GOOD happening that is ignored because it doesn't fit the liberal media's agenda against the war...

Like I've said before,, if even a fraction of the GOOD that was happening in Iraq was reported, then the whole flavor of the war would be different.

spc wrote:Not surprised that you cant understand my point so I will bolden it for you...Try to stay with me:

Volunteer soldiers do not volunteer to die to save the legacy of a failed President!

So these men & woman that are enlisting & re-enlisting beyond DOD goals are what, delusional?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/447463/defense_department_recruiting_reenlistment.htmlThis link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

DOD goals have been drasticaly reduced just so they can report meeting/exceeding them, recruit standards have been reduced to the point that they are recruiting criminals right out of jail & DOD is paying huge $$$$$$$ "Incdentives" (bribes) to keep GI's in the service.Wake up man, & turn off Fox News every so often!

That's offensive. I recieved small SRBs in the beginning of my career. Those SRBs were excessively small compared to what 1st and 2nd termers were getting just before and after 9/11. In 1984 the USMC offered me a signing bonus. The Navy did not. I thought 1980's base pay was low but you should hear the pay stories of the service members that served in the 70's, 60's, 50's. Personally I don't think younger service members started getting paid what they deserved until the 2000's. Base pay increases yearly a small percentage. Allowances for younger, unmarried service members started becoming available I believe in early 2000 or 2001 (Icould be wrong with those dates). Huge $$$$$ incentives (bribes)????? IF this is true and not just an opinion...then I say GOD BLESS it is about time!!!!![/quote]

I seem to be pissing everyone off today!!I meant no offense to the GI's taking the incentives...As a former federal employee, I also would never turn down any money my Uncle Sam cared to offer me. What I was trying to get across, inarticulatley, & what I find offensive is that, in order to reach their reduced recruitment/retention monthly goals, this government has raised monetary "incentives" to levels never seen before but required now since our military services have been reduced to the breaking point, according to many top generals.

Devil5052 wrote: I seem to be *censored* everyone off today!!I meant no offense to the GI's taking the incentives...As a former federal employee, I also would never turn down any money my Uncle Sam cared to offer me. What I was trying to get across, inarticulatley, & what I find offensive is that, in order to reach their reduced recruitment/retention monthly goals, this government has raised monetary "incentives" to levels never seen before but required now since our military services have been reduced to the breaking point, according to many top generals.

Just so everyone knows I am not pissed off! If I find a quote offensive to a point that it pisses me off I'll PM you. Richard... I just want to express my opinion that the bonuses should be looked at as "awards" for "a job well done and a thank you for continuing to serve", I believe every service member right now deserves that. In the Navy the bonuses were not the same for everyone. If your particular job is over manned your bonus is going to be low. If your job was severely under manned or what we called "critical rating" your bonus was to say the least "B E A U tiful"

Example...The bonuses for first time re-enlistees in highly technical jobs (serious schooling) normally were high...basically so the Navy can get a few more years out of your training. If there are any Nuclear power guys around on this forum...they are probably smiling right now....

In candidate McCain's absence, all I can say is, "Whew! Sure is good to know there are more than enough enlistees to fight all the fronts I've got in mind to win the 'War on Terror.' "

On Greg's point, GI sentiment is hardly uniform (pun intended). In fact, I was making calls for Obama shortly before the Feb 5 primary in NY and happened to speak to the grandfather of a GI who came home in a box last summer. Far from being concerned that withdrawal would be the equivalent of "waving the white flag of surrender," or that his grandson's death would thereby have been "in vain," this man (himself a Korean vet) spoke of his grandson having been lied to by the recruiters and not wanting to go back after his last visit home, I think for the '06 Xmas holiday. He was much less sure of which Democrat he wanted to see elected than he was about making sure more of our boys aren't sacrificed over there. Put bluntly, he thought his grandson's loss was a waste.

I know nobody likes Micheal Moore here, but it's not easy to forget the GI mother in "Fahrenheit 9/11" who was transformed from being proud soldier's parent into anti-war protester by her son's death in Iraq. So, from my point of view, I'd rather see or hear the war support statistics of families whose loved ones have made the ultimate sacrifice over there than the naturally patriotic and hopeful sentiments of the families of GI's who are still, um, "vertical."