A lot of people have complained, but what tiny fraction of ALL iPhone 4 users are they?

The question is the magnitude of the problem. If its a massive killer failure affecting a huge % of users, denied and covered up by evil villains in a tower somewhere (as people make it out to be) then thats one thing. Maybe that will turn out to be the case.

If, on the other hand, its a more minor problem, then all the enraged shrieking by people who are NOT personally affected is a little silly. (People who are in the situation where this kills calls have every right to complainand we should thank them for it, because thats how improvements can happen.)

read my last post, allegedly...
As a note to the USB power adapter recall, there was nothign wrong with the one i had, i could have let it go, but since they were nice enough to provide a free replacement (as i noted the same cost as the bumpers) then i was obliged.

Notice that all the phones the article talks about were delivered before or on release day.

I received my iPhone from Best Buy on Wednesday of this week. No issue. I was out in the country yesterday where I had 2-3 bars of service. I tried to kill it with the touch of death...still no issue.

I don't believe the problem is a design issue at all, but most likely a manufacturing one. When I think about it, I can't imagine the engineers not wondering what would happen if someone crossed the streams But, I can imagine Foxconn looking at the manufacturing plans that might have called for dipping the antenna is a protective coating for 10 seconds and only doing it say for 5 seconds in order to get the 1st and 2nd batches out the door on time.

Also, a friend of mine got his on release day and has the issue. Another friend got his on Monday from Best Buy...no issue.

A lot of people have complained, but what tiny fraction of ALL iPhone 4 users are they?

The question is the magnitude of the problem. If its a massive killer failure affecting a huge % of users, denied and covered up by evil villains in a tower somewhere (as people make it out to be) then thats one thing. Maybe that will turn out to be the case.

If, on the other hand, its a more minor problem, then all the enraged shrieking by people who are NOT personally affected is a little silly. (People who are in the situation where this kills calls have every right to complainand we should thank them for it, because thats how improvements can happen.)

You're right that the magnitude is still to be determined. But it should be obvious by now hat the it is a non-trivial percentage, with the definition of "non-trivial" up to debate. And yes, i'm familiar with the long history of real and fake controversies, everything from battery fires to cube hairline cracks.

Also, it seems counter-productive to harp on "enraged shrieking". There are crazy people on all sides of this discussion. Apple is a lightning rod for this type of bickering. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of any particular point of view. Wackos are on all sides of this topic.

Rest assured, this is a real problem and smart, level-headed people are posting incontrovertible video evidence. Like we've said, the only question at this point is the exact percentage of people or phones that are affected.

The blatant lying from Apple that the vast majority of people who have experienced the issue knows, because you don't have to TIGHTLY grip the phone to see reception significantly drop, is making Apple look like of bunch of assholes. I'm hugely disappointed and insulted by them. They have lost my trust as a company and that's no small thing.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

I am on hold with an Apple Tech. Wanted to have record of my issue if it doesn't get fixed so I can call at a later time. Anyway, I asked him if he has had a lot of calls about the proximity sensor. He laughed when he said, "uh, a good amount". you could here in his voice that it was a butt load. Seems that they are getting lots and lots of calls about the sensor and reception.

To all those that are hating me on here:

I have been a pretty hardcore Apply Fanboy Loyalist. I have taken flack for it for years and years and years. But, I have never had issues with any Apple product until now. I have spent loads and loads of money on Apple Products because they DO work better. This is the first product that the people that give me flack actually have ground to stand on. It is frustrating to finally find a product that might be flawed from a company that I have stuck with for so long. But, for those that say "take it back, yada, yada, yada" I was once one of you. I used to say, Apple didn't make you buy it. That would be fine and dandy for a product that isn't locked down by contract ect. A lot of people that are on AT&T are only there for the iPhone. I know I am. So, since I sold all of my 3Gs's (like I have with all of my previous iPhones to get the new ones) I can't just "take it back" and get a different type of phone with AT&T. That would defeat the purpose of me defecting from Verizon for the iPhone.

Lesson learned, yes. Being on the "I finally have a problem" side of Apple products makes you realize how much Fanboys can be assholes instead of listening to the problem.

Just went through this thread and had to throw in my two c in. Apple does have good (not great) customer care, they just replaced my Macbook Pro's logic board 1.5 years out of warranty... But I think what's funny about this situation is Apple's continued stuck-upedness. It's almost an insult to end a would-be apology letter with "just so you know, you can get a refund." Uh you better believe I will be getting a refund if this issue isn't fixed. This is America, bitch. The letter they posted on their website fails to own up to the true problem - the "grounding of the antenna" with your skin (which is the exact phrase an Apple rep used when I called AppleCare) The other iPhones didn't do this because the antenna was properly encased inside the phone. Yeah, every phone might lose some reception when you hold it, but dropping the signal completely? I would post my speed test screenshots as proof, but it's pretty pointless... Phone on desk = working. Phone in hand = nothing. Apple is just too big for thier little britches and won't admit that thier "groundbreaking" antenna design was majorly flawed. I don't know if this has consipracy written all over it, but it definately has "run for the money" tatooed on Apple's forehead. Something went wrong somewhere... obviously. Do I just have a defective unit? (rhetorical question)

Some have even suggested that Apple may give away bumpers to address the issue

That's preposterous!

At a retail price of $30 each, these must cost Apple something like $15 each to manufacture. I mean really. Considering that they are effectively colorful rubber bands with holes in them... think about how much a rubber band costs. They're like $10 each, right? I think I saw a bag of 100 rubber bands on sale for like $930.

Apple would lose millions, perhaps billions in manufacturing costs if they started giving these away en masse.

At a retail price of $30 each, these must cost Apple something like $15 each to manufacture. I mean really. Considering that they are effectively colorful rubber bands with holes in them... think about how much a rubber band costs. They're like $10 each, right? I think I saw a bag of 100 rubber bands on sale for like $930.

Apple would lose millions, perhaps billions in manufacturing costs if they started giving these away en masse.

please tell me you're joking, and that you've read all the last 30 or so posts on this forum before you decided to post this? (especially #46)

It does hold water, if his experience is different from reviewers because he lives in a different area from them. Cell reception varies widely, so people will experience all kinds of things. There isnt one single reception experience that all phone users share.

Maybe he did mean it anecdotally, but I read it as a general statement about the iPhone 4 v. all previous iPhones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlituna

If you set up using a back up then in fact it may be a fix. The theory as to why it works is a bad setting/preference from the back up

Restore in progress...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

Uhhhh, good move Apple. Those bumpers cost less than $1 to manufacture.

Regardless of cost, this is a workaround, not a fix, so this could easily be more costly in the long run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nagromme

Dont feel too bad for Apple.

They never said a software fix could solve the signal loss. Thats not what the software fix doesthis was made clear.

And one Apple rep doing one thing in one case is not the same they who made the official announcement.

Apples nightmare is simple: the media will jump on anything, make a stink and sell ads, and if it has Apple or iPhone in the story, thats worth extra And that is a great nightmare: it helps Apple far more than it hurts them. We could say its not fair that Nokia isnt getting equal press for pretending their phone doesnt suffer similar issues, when their own manual states otherwise. But Nokias also not getting their name dropped every 4 seconds, building mindshare. Apple just has to take the rough with the smooth.

QFT. Apple's PR said exactly what they had to say. I have to think that Jobs emails will be stopping now to unknown recipients, at least for awhile (hopefully forever).

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfiler

I've been quite critical of apple and think that Apple needs to address the reception problems in a public statement. Perhaps they should even offer free bumpers if the problem can't be fixed via software.

However those bumpers certainly cost more than $1 to produce. I've got one on my phone (which thankfully fixed the reception problem) and I've got to say that the bumper is much more complex than it looks on the Apple website.

It is comprised of quite a few intricate pieces. There are three captive buttons with chrome finish. The equator of the bumper is hard plastic while the outer rings are rubber.

Sure, it isn't expensive in raw material, but it is one of the most complex cases to manufacture. It actually involves assembly, not just dropping plastic out of a mold.

Free bumpers aren't good enough. I'd get your money back and demand more from a company like Apple. They messed up big time here.

People can get their money back; they just have to be willing to part with the phone. How many people who actually suffer the problem will do that? If it was me, I'd rather just have the free bumper than give up the phone entirely.

People can get their money back; they just have to be willing to part with the phone. How many people who actually suffer the problem will do that? If it was me, I'd rather just have the free bumper than give up the phone entirely.

They still sell 3G S iPhones. iPhone is the issue, iPhone 4 is the issue. People have a chance here to do something that will make a difference, but no, they'll keep the phone and give Apple even more control over them.

Also, it seems counter-productive to harp on "enraged shrieking". There are crazy people on all sides of this discussion. Apple is a lightning rod for this type of bickering. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of any particular point of view. Wackos are on all sides of this topic.

Note that I also said we should thank people who have these problems and report them. Those aren’t the shriekers, nor is any particular party in this thread But there IS definite exaggeration going on by some parties.

Nobody can say the problem is widespread. And nobody can say it isn’t. Not without numbers.

I can say that it very much SEEMS not to be widespread. People noticing something: a minority. People actually affected by it to the extent that it’s a big, frequent problem for them: an even tinier minority. I call it as I see it, and await more information.

But we don’t have numbers—yet. The ones that are shocked that Apple isn’t giving away bumpers to everyone have to be assuming that the numbers are insanely high. Those I might lump in with the shriekers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ireland

They still sell 3G S iPhones. iPhone is the issue, iPhone 4 is the issue. People have a chance here to do something that will make a difference, but no, they'll keep the phone and give Apple even more control over them.

Mass boycott over an amazingly great product with one small flaw (and what product doesn’t have any?) is asking too much of people. If that’s “giving Apple control” then so is buying any product from any company—because this flaw is not out of line with things that happen every day from any vendor. Be aware of such issues when making decisions—but taking it to the extreme of mass boycott doesn’t make sense in this instance.

What is more? Your money back, your contract dissolved AND a settlement for emotional distress.

More: as in more respect and better design. By not buying this product it forces them to changed their tune in the future by treating their customers with a little more respect and by having them look at antenna design differently. I don't expect you to understand. That's not a flame, I seriously doubt you'll get it.

More: as in more respect and better design. By not buying this product it forces them to changed their tune in the future by treating their customers with a little more respect and by having them look at antenna design differently. I don't expect you to understand. That's not a flame, I seriously doubt you'll get it.

Yes, because basic business concepts escape me, but are so clear to you¡ You aren't acting as crazy as you were last week, but you have yet to act rationally and logically about the situation.

You need to realize that is a product is bad people won't buy. With the iPhone, over every other product Apple sells, you can use it for up to 30 days completely risk free. Are you still claiming this isn't in the case? If the product doesn't suit ones needs, then they will return it or they won't by another. That's how the market works. No one is forced to buy anything. I returned by iPad because it didn't work for my needs, but I didn't throw a tantrum for week (and I actually owned the product, have you yet even seen an iPhone 4 in the person or touched its 3G-Spot?).

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Mass boycott over an amazingly great product with one small flaw (and what product doesn’t have any?) is asking too much of people.

Small flaw? It's Apple we're talking about, and it's a mobile photo with data capabilities. Behind the scenes Steve is howling like a wolf. I guarantee it. It's not a small flaw. It's a major flaw. But yes, even that is asking too much.

I just recorded a video accessing 3G data on my iPhone 4 before and after holding it in my left hand. Instead of just looking at the reception indicator, I used speed test apps to see if the 3G signal is affected. It completely lost all 3G reception.

They still sell 3G S iPhones. iPhone is the issue, iPhone 4 is the issue. People have a chance here to do something that will make a difference, but no, they'll keep the phone and give Apple even more control over them.

God forbid people still like the phone in spite of its flaws!
Yes, the 3GS is still available, but that doesn't mean it's as good as the 4. I have a 3GS, but if I could get the iPhone 4 without having to pay $500 (still under contract), I would even knowing of its severe but avoidable flaw. Show me a phone as well-made as the iPhone without any of its flaws but all of its benefits though, and I'll happily convert.

The Apple store manager I was working with to fix my 4G phone did that exact same thing to my phone. My reply was that so now I have a sub standard Edge phone that was advertised as 3G?
He switched it back........

However, if you switch to Edge - at least you have a useable phone until something better comes along. For me, this work-around (a work-around is NOT intended as a permanent solution!!) at least allows me to use my phone in poor coverage areas without dropping phone calls.

I suspect that Apple, being a Computer Company, told the firmware to place a higher priority on data transmission than on voice communications. That's why 3G downloads may stall and calls get dropped.

However, if you disable 3G (Work-around); you get reasonable Edge speeds and a cell phone that works as a cell phone. When you get in an area with good reception - turn the 3G back on.

Small flaw? It's Apple we're talking about, and it's a mobile photo with data capabilities. Behind the scenes Steve is howling like a wolf. I guarantee it. It's not a small flaw. It's a major flaw. But yes, even that is asking too much.

I'll toss this at you ... it's seeming to be ignored on this thread.

I have a iPhone 4, and work in an area that has poor reception. Yesterday, I dropped 6 calls in 15 minutes. Frustrating does not begin to express my feelings.

Co-worker did an experiment with his 3G iPhone. Jailbroke it, set the display to show antenna dB instead of bars and did some comparisons. With 3G disabled, he got several dB better reception in the same area, than with it enabled. He's been doing this for a year; curious as to why the iPHone would attenuate the cell reception with 3G enabled.

I disabled my 3G, and where I could not run the download test due to stalling out - I now get 181 kbps down and 14 kbps up and this is repeatable with Edge. I can now surf (slow) and although it's slower than 3G - it's rock solid!!

Conversely, I've made several phone calls and have not dropped a single call, in the same area with the same call.

I disabled my 3G, and where I could not run the download test due to stalling out - I now get 181 kbps down and 14 kbps up and this is repeatable with Edge. I can now surf (slow) and although it's slower than 3G - it's rock solid!!

This makes me think this could be a problem with the new TriQuint UMTS chip being used (at worst) or a SW/driver issue fix (at best). Either way, the "few weeks" for this update tells me they are reasonably sure they can resolve it in SW and they are doing a lot more than changing the signal strength indicator bars.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

This makes me think this could be a problem with the new TriQuint UMTS chip being used (at worst) or a SW/driver issue fix (at best). Either way, the "few weeks" for this update tells me they are reasonably sure they can resolve it in SW and they are doing a lot more than changing the signal strength indicator bars.

He-he. 730 EUR white thing for fashionistas is delayed due to supply issues, while a 30 EUR garter is right here on the day one. He-he. Apple is entering silicone business.

Never mind, Apple. Real technophiles --- umm, I mean who are sure that 10" of antenna length add more to its quality, than removing 2 mm of plastic case covering it; oh, putain! --- do know, how innovations are born.

No guts no glory. We still love your solutions, Apple, and we pay...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

This makes me think this could be a problem with the new TriQuint UMTS chip being used (at worst) or a SW/driver issue fix (at best). Either way, the "few weeks" for this update tells me they are reasonably sure they can resolve it in SW and they are doing a lot more than changing the signal strength indicator bars.

Yeah, when was the last time Apple released a software update to address exactly one issue?

I just recorded a video accessing 3G data on my iPhone 4 before and after holding it in my left hand. Instead of just looking at the reception indicator, I used speed test apps to see if the 3G signal is affected. It completely lost all 3G reception.

Thanks for making the video. That's the best one I've seen yet. I've had the exact same thing but I get "call failed" too, unfortunately.

I've tried two cases and where I tested them they prevented going to "no network" from 5 bars like my bare hand did, instead the signal held steady at 3 bars. I've since tried using an old incase though from my 3G, it fits very badly and because of that it keeps my hand further away from the phone, and I've tried it for about four hours and have virtually no signal loss at all.

Edit: These tests were all on Vodafone's slower non 3G network.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

People have a chance here to do something that will make a difference, but no, they'll keep the phone and give Apple even more control over them.

I agree. Given the statement to iPhone 4 owners by Apple I should take my phone back and end my contract, it's that insulting. I really like it though, other than the issues, so I don't think I could do it. Pathetic I know, I'm not proud of it. I've already told my brother to hold off getting one though.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

I agree. Given the statement to iPhone 4 owners by Apple I should take my phone back and end my contract, it's that insulting. I really like it though, other than the issues, so I don't think I could do it. Pathetic I know, I'm not proud of it. I've already told my brother to hold off getting one though.

So everyone should return it even if it's working perfectly for them and worlds above any previous iPhone or any other smartphone on the market just because a ninny who trolled for a week can't come to terms with the way he was acting?

Personally, I'll side with reasonable and respected sites, like Consumer Reports, over a hysterical forum poster with no engineering background who claims its a design flaw within minutes of the first YouTube video being posted. But, hey, that's just me.

I do not know what the truth is or who to believe on this subject.
Here is what I do know for my iPhone 4.
When I grip my iPhone 4 as described in all these articles on this subject, my iPhone 4 does go from a standard 5 bars to one bar.
I just completed installing the Bodyguardz scratch-proof transparent film to my iPhone 4 which covers the area in questioned. Now I can grip the phone as described without any lost of signal bars. I repeat; after installing Bodyguardz to my iPhone 4 which covers the problem area, I experience no lost of signal bars.
Bodyguardz can be found at www.nluproducts.com.