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This is a website..this is the internet. Its open for ANYONE and everyone to see. Case closed. If you don't want people to know you are HIV positive then remain anonymous. IF you want to reveal yourself by picture or name do it my private message or email. This is the most ridiculous argument I have seen on here. Kudos to all the moderators etc who work so hard trying to make everyone happy and always falling short in some way.

This issue isn't nearly as simple as some members seem to be making it. It's complex, it's human, it demonstrates yet again how HIV impacts people in so many ways.

The only complaint I have about Peter's decision isn't personal. It's something deeper and broader, it can't be dismissed with broadly worded proclamations.

It's the impact it will have on people who have gained so much from the power of these forums.

Doctors, lawyers, teachers, clergy, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, dishwashers, executives, business owners, you name it. Those who felt so overwhelmed by their HIV diagnosis and feared someone finding out, came to these forums for support and information. As they grew more and more comfortable they began to expose more of themselves. That wasn't "naive", it was driven by a real human need for healing as far as I'm concerned. That may be the major unintended consequence of this whole thing. That level of safety has been erased. That's what I fear.

I still think that by taking realistic precautions (not posting your photo anywhere here, not using your name, nickname, saying what town you live in, etc.) that you can get proper support here with no danger of disclosure.

Good greif, this CSI stuff has "virused" out to other parts of this site... Thats what really sucks for me... I for one could care less about the media, in fact I hate even reading about it... But now its in my recovery to?? crap...... Just crap...

I have to agree with Eric. Contaminating other threads has gotten out of hand! Let's try to keep the CSI issue here!

I wanted to share a link about the whole privacy issue which might be of interest to many here. I couldnt' find the exact article I first read, but if you live in Massachusetts you might want to read this article:

Just thought it might be of interest. There are some issues of privacy being breached, and I hear there is some uproar over the deal there, but would like to hear if anyone knows the details. Of course, in this case actual names are being used.

Don't know if this is happening in all states, but know my friend in Boston wasn't happy bout it.

Anyways, I thought it might be beneficial to point out an actual issue rather than a percieved one. Ultimately, people get outed everyday whether CSI gets renewed or not.

I still think that by taking realistic precautions (not posting your photo anywhere here, not using your name, nickname, saying what town you live in, etc.) that you can get proper support here with no danger of disclosure.

THANK YOU, Philly! I applaud your uncomplicated explanation.

It really doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to post about things without blatantly giving away an identity either.

Yeah, it's really no different than the pre-internet days. If you were in the closet and you decided to go make a foray in the gay bookstore or peep show booth, there was the slight chance that you'd run into your 3rd cousin once removed right in front of the place. The same situation exists here, it's just a matter of what degree of risk one wishes to take. I mean *HELLO* why do you think there are always so many "Guests" reading the forums. One you make the decision to register you've committed to and endless amount of choices of how much of yourself to share depending on your personal disclosure situation.

I'm just glad I don't deal with it anymore. But surely, I understand the concerns. I just want people to be honest about where they are with this and what the realities of the internet are. Basically people have an incorrect view of the internet... like because you sit alone in a room at home staring at your screen that it equals some level of privacy. It's very illusory.

Oh, and haven't we all gossiped when drunk?

I am reminded of two things per Philly's post. First, I have had any number of guys who called me when I was doing anonymous (phone only, pre-caller id days) about what if's, 'what if I run into my boss at a gay bar?' including my first boyfriend who worried about running into one of his students. Well, guess what? If you run into your boss you both know something about each other rather than his knowing something only about you.

The huge difference is that disclosure of sexuality is very different from disclosure of being hiv positive and this difference is critical to these forums and we all, perhaps, need to watch and think for each other when reading posts: 'are you sure that you want to post this?' via p.m. being an option.

Second, escorts used to or may still use AOL chatrooms to advertise their services. I could never seem to get across to them that, having seen the transcripts used in court, there were any number of federal agents and local vice squad officers online trying to trip them up, getting them to offer sex for money: prostitution. I could never get them to grasp that you have to assume that the person in the chatroom, the person on the phone is someone you don't want to have this conversation with. And they were frustrated because how do you have a conversation wtihout having it?

I am not equating what goes on here with this, but do see parallels, the challenge being, as stated throughout this thread, how do we have intimate, personal, deep discussions which may at times need to cross into admissions or confessions without which they might have little value? A post, for example, from someone who lives in a state which prosecutes acts of unsafe sex by persons who know that they are hiv positive. Win

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Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems. The last was published in December 2006. He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

I get it. The internet is WIDE OPEN. I will no longer tell anyone here in an open forum where I've been or where I'm going.

BUT BUT BUT- The damage is done. I did not know when I posted about my vacation, that the forums were about to be open to, and an explicit invitation was to be issued to, all the people who watch a TV show BASED IN MY OWN STATE. And I can't go back and take out identifying stuff. No I didn't give out my SS#, or my address, and my e-mail addy is hidden. No lingering face pics. But I used my first name. I stupidly chose an identifying username. Based on the casual mentioning of things, if someone popped in here and knew me, they would be able to identify me.

You didn't have to catch the tiny knowhivaids.com URL at the end of the show to wind up at these forums. JUst go to CBS.com, right there on the opening page, 2 clicks, and you're here. In fact you are so directed here , because there are no other options for clicking at that Zueker guy's page.

Of course I'm not going to do it in the future, but the old stuff is right here. If I was having a personal conversation in a room with you, Philly, I would tell you stuff about me based on who you are that I am talking with. I don't walk into a bar/club, and announce my status to all I meet.

I have also noticed that most of those who have no issue with this CSI stuff, are either already HIV/AIDS activists in one way or another, are home on disability, or retired.

I love the way these things go. Those of us expressing fear and concern are constantly being criticised and belittled by those who don't have the fear/concern.

Wesley, buddy, you should know that feeling first hand from the thread you made about your fear of starting meds. Your fears and expressions of concern about meds were belittled repeatedly.

I have had no issue with this CSI stuff as it is called and I am an activist of no kind unfortunately. This is due to the fact of being an adult full time student, studying and working 2 jobs. I am not on disability nor am I retired obviously. I would never belittle anyone for their feelings. I just always figured that by curiousity or worry that chances are friends/family or even co-workers of mine could always come by this site and therefore I never revealed myself on here because I felt it should be by me when I was ready. My name is very common..there must be tens of thousands of Joes online in New York and I never revealed much about myself personally in a forum unless it related more directly to hiv itself. However I have revealed much more in pms or emails. Again..this is a choice. There is no right or wrong. Just be careful of the choices you make. It has been said a million times..this can be an hiv-anonymous site if you would like it to be or you can choose to "out" yourself on here. It is always best to err on the side of caution no matter what route you choose for yourself.

You didn't have to catch the tiny knowhivaids.com URL at the end of the show to wind up at these forums. JUst go to CBS.com, right there on the opening page, 2 clicks, and you're here. In fact you are so directed here , because there are no other options for clicking at that Zueker guy's page.

Longislander -- just to be clear, the link from the knowhivaids.org Zuiker letter page does not lead "here", as in the Living With forum. It leads directly into the CSI forum. To our knowledge, almost all of those that have entered our forums by hitting the CSI forum first have not ventured (or even found) the other forums. I doubt this will ease your concerns, but I want to offer you and others the facts as we know them.

Also, there are 3 links on the Zuiker page: one to knowhivaids.org home page, one to Kaiser's home page, and the one to our CSI forum.

I'm in the UK and embarassingly,or thankfully, havent seen the CSI you are discussing. I agree with so many of the,(sometimes opposing) posts its difficult to be succinct BUT. I have found this site to be supportive,informative and a great resource. I,like so many others have shared things that are deeply personal and have appreciated all the help,good wishes and love that has been shared with me. (Most of) the people I have talked to have been just awesome,putting up with me whilst I'm trying to get along with living with HIV,my confusion and my whinges!. Yes,I'm a bit protective of my safe haven being exposed but hey, if one person uses a condom because of this,we're winning guys! I'm not trying to preach, I see both sides but frankly if anyone hurts any of the insanely funny,caring and wonderful people on here because of CSI, I'll make sure they need a real forensic team! (JOKE). I don't care who started this site and I'm deeply grateful to whoever did. My worst,maybe, habit on these forums is getting emotional, but I feel passionate about this.On the sorta same lines I'm going on UK BBCTV to talk about my own personal experience,taking a huge risk, but feel that I cant sit on my butt and whine if services are being cut,I'm treated badly and HIV is still so stigmatised if I'm not prepared to TRY to make a difference. I'm not a saint,drama queen,do-gooder or attention seeker, just a 40 year old woman with HIV. Really hope this post isn't too intense, and warned you it was difficult to be succinct! Yours loquatiously(sp) Joh

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I know i'm going to enjoy the party in the afterlife, but do you all mind that I'm going to be VERY late!!!

Also, there are 3 links on the Zuiker page: one to knowhivaids.org home page, one to Kaiser's home page, and the one to our CSI forum.

I get what you're saying Peter, I went back and yes, you can get to the other two sites from Zuikers, as they're underlined in the body of his letter (?). But the only reason people got to that page was because they clicked a link to the Stella /CSI blog forum to participate. Odds are they'll skip the Kaiser foundation site and the knowHIVaids site, so they can get on with the forum blogging stuff.

This issue isn't nearly as simple as some members seem to be making it. It's complex, it's human, it demonstrates yet again how HIV impacts people in so many ways.

The only complaint I have about Peter's decision isn't personal. It's something deeper and broader, it can't be dismissed with broadly worded proclamations.

It's the impact it will have on people who have gained so much from the power of these forums.

Doctors, lawyers, teachers, clergy, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, dishwashers, executives, business owners, you name it. Those who felt so overwhelmed by their HIV diagnosis and feared someone finding out, came to these forums for support and information. As they grew more and more comfortable they began to expose more of themselves. That wasn't "naive", it was driven by a real human need for healing as far as I'm concerned. That may be the major unintended consequence of this whole thing. That level of safety has been erased. That's what I fear.

RAB

Well put, RAB (should I even continue to use people's first names?) I haven't posted much about this topic, although it's bothered me quite a bit. I couldn't quite put my finger on what specifically bothered me. You've nailed exactly why this 'change' bothers me.

I realize that the internet isn't a place of privacy, especially on an open forum. I look at it, in a way, as sitting in a restaurant eating with a friend. I don't expect a lot of privacy in that setting, but I also don't expect somebody to lean over and listen to every word I say ... to draw attention to what I've said even. Common courtesy doesn't seem to be part of the management of these forums. Sometimes, we have really bad days and post info about ourselves that maybe we shouldn't. If we didn't need help and support, most of us wouldn't be here. Why punish us by not allowing us to edit out things that maybe shouldn't have been posted? How about allowing us to PM a moderator, when something needs to be edited for the sake of privacy, and having them do the edit? It's keep us from completely deleting posts and 'sabotaging' the forums. Who knows, maybe these threads will end up published sometime. Wouldn't that reduce the marketability of what we've written?

What is in really poor taste, and quite tacky, is the sudden 'need' to lock posts after 48 hours. I know three posters in this thread specifically will say that I should think about what I write before I post, etc, etc. I do think about what I write prior to posting. That doesn't mean that I get across exactly what I mean, and sometimes days later, in re-reading my post, I see things that are vague, typos, etc and like to correct them. After all, if what I post is going to belong to somebody else, maybe even find its way into some other media, I'd like it to be correctly written.

A while back, there was a somewhat similar to-do about excerpts from posts being on the Poz home page. I remember many members being upset about this. I find it really hard to believe that the powers that be wouldn't think that members would also be upset by the newest 'change'. I'm not sure about the financial benefits to those in charge, but when money is involved, most other concerns seem to go out the window.

More than anything else, I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed in how this CSI thing was handled. I'm disappointed that a sub-domain (or something similar) wasn't used to 'shield' us a bit more. I'm disappointed in how personal info that may have been revealed in a lapse of judgement can't be removed. I'm disappointed that those members who argue a point just for the sake of arguing won't step back and see that people are upset and quit trying to make them feel stupid (like saying the internet's not private, etc.). I'm also disappointed that several members I like and respect won't post much, if at all, due to all the new publicity.

I hope that most of us are wrong and that we get more privacy and security from this, but I doubt it'll happen. Nice move, guys.

ROUND OF APPLAUSE NC. Just what I wanted to say,just tried to be fair. Use a real name,have spilled my guts....who asked my permission to put the site in the spotlight? OK, internet is an open and sometimes invasive place, but this site is my refuge. Where was the consultation? I think this was deliberatley done at short notice by the programme makers

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I know i'm going to enjoy the party in the afterlife, but do you all mind that I'm going to be VERY late!!!

Tigger, have you ever started a group or tried to run one? Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I gotta say it ain't easy and sometimes you have to make difficult decisions for the benefit of everyone on short notice.

Tigger, have you ever started a group or tried to run one? Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I gotta say it ain't easy and sometimes you have to make difficult decisions for the benefit of everyone on short notice.

You're assuming that this benefits us. This is NOT a new website... well, the aidsmeds.com website isn't new. This isn't a 'time out' given to a user for an offensive post. This was not a 'normal' website decision. No, we're talking about a SPECIFIC action of dubious benefit, not something like a software revision that changes how users log in. Sometimes those decisions that seem 'hard' are, and that's because they need to be thought out. Ever had a high-pressure sales pitch thrown you? I generally walk away if I'm not given time to think about the consequences.

Hmmm, let's invite the local news and the general public to our support group? Well, maybe not that, but let's invite them to an AIDS / HIV meeting in the room right next door to our support group and have the meetings run concurrent. Maybe the news and the general public won't see us coming and going from our support group. This is the point that's being made.

When I was first promoted to management, I promised myself that I would never forget about the employees; the heart of the company that actually keeps us in business. In the beginning, that mindset kept me from making the "right" decisions. Afterall, my primary responsibility is the bottom line and the company's p&l. I found out the hard way that sometimes decisions need to be made that may not always be popular with my staff. And that I would possibly lose a good employee or two because of my decision. However, that decision would ultimately wind up benefitting EVERYONE for the long haul.

I still think that by taking realistic precautions (not posting your photo anywhere here, not using your name, nickname, saying what town you live in, etc.) that you can get proper support here with no danger of disclosure.

THANK YOU, Philly! I applaud your uncomplicated explanation.

It really doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to post about things without blatantly giving away an identity either.

Daniel

Thanks for the agreement, yours among many Daniel. My common sense approach was earlier described as being "condescending", an apology for this overly emotional and ungrounded accusation, of course, has so far not appeared to me.

You know, I post on this other board populated by youngish-ist cyber freaks who set up their own board (and it's quite democratically structured as it was a response to another Mac board where the mods were perceived as tyrants) and they have set up certain sections of the forums for "sensitive" subjects (NSFW, P2P stuff) where you must register separately from the normal registration, and thus be a known member of the board for a few months... this weeds out the pigs in the community "in theory. Not sure if that could be done here for the uber-disclosre paranoid but it may be worth consideration.

Please keep in mind, I am EVER EVER so considerate of those that have disclosure issues. I had such (well, of some sort... only family related, not close friends or co-workers as I lived five states away) but I totally understand it. I still go by what I stated though in that the posting pictures of those that wish to remain anonymous was the utmost in naivety but we all make misjudgments.

Anyway, I still think it's all a red herring. SIMPLE PRECAUTIONS as I stated above will eliminate the need to even implement such intricate restructuring as I just offered in this posting. COMMON SENSE FOLKS.

There are 8 million people on Long Island. I'm not sure I'd worry about that one. The other things you mentioned yes.

However, if it makes you more comfortable I bet the mods have ability to change your username without losing your postcount and other stats, as well as link to all previous postings. We can do this on other forums I use.

The important thing is that going forward you feel comfortable until the time comes that you are ready to disclose to your family, friends, etc.

Trust me, I understand your paranoia -- I have been there, and for longer than you probably will end up being.

Ad the very least you could re-register with a different name. Have the mods replied to your requests to take down the photos you put up? I think they should at least do that, considering the sudden change in rules.

You're assuming that this benefits us. This is NOT a new website... well, the aidsmeds.com website isn't new. This isn't a 'time out' given to a user for an offensive post. This was not a 'normal' website decision. No, we're talking about a SPECIFIC action of dubious benefit, not something like a software revision that changes how users log in. Sometimes those decisions that seem 'hard' are, and that's because they need to be thought out. Ever had a high-pressure sales pitch thrown you? I generally walk away if I'm not given time to think about the consequences.

Hmmm, let's invite the local news and the general public to our support group? Well, maybe not that, but let's invite them to an AIDS / HIV meeting in the room right next door to our support group and have the meetings run concurrent. Maybe the news and the general public won't see us coming and going from our support group. This is the point that's being made.

This is so scary.. I have just scanned this debate, I do that from time to time on these forums and just want to say if I wasn't afraid to strike up conversation before now, my goodness, I think that I am terrified. You guys we all have to be true to ourselves first and foremost. On the internet nothing is really private, you do have abilities on some levels to mask who you are, and where you are from. Just so you guys know in the United States there is really no actual right to privacy. In my lowly mindset I was thinking that the CSI story lines would add a little acceptance to our plight, now I am not so sure how I feel. I have to say that ABC with the General Hospital show with the HIV+ doctor has really educated a lot of people. I have not watched the episode, but I will. I usually can not stomach the show due to some of the gore, gives me nightmares, besides I have enough drama in my real life not to have to endure more from the television. Good luck to you guys on this one, it would be nice if some of the money made off of the show would go to help fund some of the HIV/AIDS programs like Ryan White, which our government is cutting seriously. That of course would mean we live in a perfect world. D

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Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. Calvin Coolidge

When I logged on last week to find out this site was being advertised on American TV as a place where viewers of CSI whatever it's called, I was shocked. My first action was to start deleting my posts. The easier way would have been to take down my pic, which I did later.

Why didn't I feel comfortable with people reading my posts? Well, for many of the reasons above. I've posted very personal information about myself, which I was not ready to share with all the world. Yeh, I know it's the Internet. But unless you are looking for information on this topic, I think that most people are not going to hit this site. Perhaps, I shouldn't have posted about the things I did, but I fekt safe.

From easing myself out of the closet, I suddenly felt doors slamming. Part of it was just the shock of the way that it was announced. Maybe if I'd have had more time to think about it, I would have made a different decision, but not being offered any choice, I did what I did.

This website has been an invaluable source of support fr me. It's where I come to unwind. I did not come here to educate people who are not HIV. I came here because I wanted to tell people how I was feeling and get support from other HIV people or sometimes just talk and have a laugh.

This episode has really saddened me. To see people take down their pictures or leaving suddenly because they don't feel safe is depressing. I suddenly don't feel safe in a place that was very special to me.

What next? Do I just walk away and try something else or am I just expected to weather the storm until it is sorted out.

My response today was to change my profile so that my first and last name is now present. I have done so in the hope that it may balance things a bit for some of us, recognising that Peter, Andy and others are able to be present here with pics and full, real names and life goes on. I would not recommend this, because not everyone lives where we do, not everyone works where we do, not everyone has been out as long as we have been out connected to hiv/aids elsewhere anyway, making here just another place. I absolutely understand and support reactions which some have had, to think about leaving, to delete where possible, to use avatars. Unfortunately, as with gay rights, if some of us don't step forward and face outward, progress slows. Best, Win

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Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems. The last was published in December 2006. He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Holy Crap -- I go away on a much needed vacation and all hell breaks loose here!!! I haven't read everything connected with this (I would need another vacation) and have not seen the CSI episode (has it aired?? I'm guessing there will be a few of them with this storyline), but I do have an opinion.

Let's all take a breath and think about this -- I don't think that we are all in danger of being outed here. I have not told anyone in my family and can not even imagine them coming here AND seeing my picture. If that does happen, well then it will happen -- maybe I was supposed to tell them. If I was really worried, I'd remove my picture.

Now, I will agree with Eric -- this "issue" has seemed to take over the forums and that is NOT GOOD. Let's get back to what we are here for and stop worrying about the sky falling -- or at least let's not carry into every thread.