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T O P I C R E V I E W

Wooly Rupert

Posted - 24 Oct 2008 : 00:51:50 Well, Krash asked for it, so...

Well met

This being a collective scroll of any questions the Scribes and visitors of Candlekeep wish to put to author and master contributor for all-things-Impiltur, George "Krash" Krashos.

Present your questions herein and check back to see what news may also come forth from the quill of this author.

25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)

Gary Dallison

Posted - 02 Mar 2019 : 08:36:58 Somewhat unsettling news.

Wotc has abandoned this realms reality for their own less interesting creation(best thing they ever did in my opinion), and in the absence of their misguided steer, us realms fans have looked to others (You, Eric, and ed) to provide the expansions to lore we so desperately desire. And you have generously complied, for which we are infinitely grateful.

Canon is no longer official wotc approved sourcebooks, it is forum posts from the chambers of the sages, it is Twitter posts, it is articles like layla maurshanta, yahdi el alamat, the zulkirate of thay, the impiltur timeline, Lord of the end of everything, and sourcebooks like illefarn anew.

Until now there has been no conflict and use obsessed enthusiasts have catalogued everything and use it as much as any other official sourcebook.

If you and Eric have different views on Jergal then please attempt to reconcile them into a single vision. Eric's own approach is never to ignore a source and your article is now a source. Revise it, amend it, such things happened often in past sourcebooks, but please don't ignore it. I think Steven said that there are no mistakes, only opportunities for good Storytelling.

I don't know if you have ever considered it or intended for it to happen but I (and I expect many in the community) regard you and Eric and ed as the keepers of canon for the 14th century DR. And although I doubt any of you intended for that to happen by generously providing your time and skills, but it is the state of things at the present.

On a more personal note I loved the Lord of the end of everything and regard it as an excellent explanation of one of the most mysterious deities in faerun. It is made even better because it closely mirrors my own approach, that gods do not directly affect the material plane, instead you made Jergal a real being with a colourful history and later catapulted him into an unwanted divinity, explaining many of the legends and tales about him. I hope we see a revised version later that works with Eric's vision as well, often the best lore comes from reconciling different works that seems incompatible.

And please don't take this as an attack or anything disparaging, I'm just trying to explain how i think many of us here feel about your articles and I would have for Lord of the end of everything to slide into obscurity and would instead like to see it reborn anew like an old adventure brought back to life, but I'm sure you and Eric are doing that already anyway.

Gary

George Krashos

Posted - 02 Mar 2019 : 00:41:10 Ahh shucks. I can't claim all the credit. The article had its roots in work Eric Boyd and I were doing a few years ago and have now returned to. The Jergal/spellweaver connection came from him as did much of the early history and I then riffed in terms of Jergal's machinations over the Nether Scrolls, travels over Faerūn and concluding Netheril foray. Dazzlerdal notes most of the lore connections that brought it together (Ed's Border Kingdom mention of Godswalk Keep, the Underdark product noting a phaerimm presence in Imaskar, etc.).

I should point out to you that Eric had and has a different take on Jergal which is likely to be showcased in his next product Crown of Eaerlann if we ever finish it! When that happens, mine will quietly slide into somnolence and remain what it always was and is: fan musing.

Oh, and just so you know, given recent e-mail exchanges between Eric and I on adjunct topics, I think I would have to revamp the article a little bit in any event.

I turned the sstar gems into chardalyn, the ritual at ascore into the origin of the netherese sharn that contained the phaerimm, the spellweaver colony into a wide ranging network of colonies with its node in azulduth. He gave an origin to jergals appearance in that keep in the border kingdoms, a reason for phaerimm involvement in Netheril and imaskar, an origin story for bhaal, an origin for the nether scrolls, an explanation of ascore

And after discovering it was influenced by paizos ecology of the spellweaver there is more you can weave in with their magic cocoons and rebirth process.

I'd still be expanding this lore now if I wasn't waiting to see what other Netheril related goodies he comes up with. A truly excellent article, one of his best.

Gelcur

Posted - 01 Mar 2019 : 20:29:33 As I was going through material trying to think up questions I stumbled on your fan lore "Lord of the End of Everything", somehow I had made a copy of it locally intending to read it and never did more than skim it, tragic. Well I remedied that, I must say it is fantastic. I understand it isn't canon, but it ties so well into so many things throughout FR history. I am canonizing it in my personal Realms. I find it is especially good at conveying how one empire flows into the next.

I couldn't find anyone specifically asking questions about it, so apologies if these have already been answered. With so much lore in that article it is hard to tell what ideas you created to connect everything? I think I remember reading Jergal was non-human in the past. I don't specifically remember the Imaskari having anything to do with the Nether Scrolls? I don't know of any references to Spell Weavers in FR. Really any sort of incite in your process of writing this piece would be welcomed. Hopefully learning about your process will help me write my own Realms material for my home game.

Aez

Posted - 05 Feb 2019 : 04:36:34

quote:Originally posted by George KrashosAs for fort locations, they were scattered all over, with most clustered along the river line and the two "Waters" but also some in the flat lands and along the Earthspurs. If I ever managed to do an Impiltur product for the DMs Guild, I'd get someone talented to do a big map with all sorts of stuff on there. I was working toward something like that with Markus Tay but he's moved on to other projects.

Thanks for the help - I figured that the two "Waters" would be a hotspot for these fortifications due to all the conflicts with the Giantspurs hobgoblins.

I'm working on a (garbage) map as part of my work, but I do not fit the bill as a talented mapmaker. If you do ever put that together, I'd be thrilled to dig into it.

Asharak

Posted - 04 Feb 2019 : 17:03:04 Thank you very much !

George Krashos

Posted - 03 Feb 2019 : 01:59:04 Well firstly, my Jergal work is not official and likely never will be, but you have to understand that there are many Imaskaracana. In fact, I think the term must simply mean "created powerful magic item" in Roushoum.

The -3891 DR date for the creation of the Imaskarcana is repeated in GHotR and so remains canon, whatever Ed Bonny might say. I've got his original chapter turnover for LEoF and that's the date he put in the timeline provided. Of course Travis Stout did the magic items chapter which explains the differing dates, but the errors were not picked up in editing.

So what's the solution? (If one is needed at all) I think it is a simple one. As Imaskarcana have to be items of great power crafted by the Artificers of the Imaskari, it is clear that they can create many - see Dragon #281 for other versions as well as GHotR (p.31) for mention of the False Imaskarcana.

So I see there being many Imaskarcana - with sages, historians and loremasters giving them fanciful groupings like "the First" or "the Seven", In all likelihood there were a boatload of Imaskarcana and from my point of view, some of them may have been transformed Nether Scrolls.

And of course, many moons ago, the esteemed Steven Schend had this to say about the "Seven Imaskarcana":

"The mention of the Imaskarcana on the old WotC FR frontpage is throwaway stuff to add flavor and depth to the setting, as we can't possibly detail everything of importance across all times in the Realms. After all, we can't easily name every piece of regalia for the crown of England across 933 years thanks to Cromwell's melting down of much of it; now why should we be able to identify and catalogue every important item across hundreds of realms, all long since fallen? Anyway, that's the rationale for dropping in legendary items - they are sometimes among the few tidbits we've got on various people and places.

As for who/what the Seven Imaskarcana were/are, here are my theories and obfuscations:While their contents and forms are much disputed, the Seven Imaskarcana are inarguably seven great stores of knowledge about magic, thus the name.

Some contend that the arcana collectively contain the knowledge of the Imaskari/Raurinese sorcerer-kings (or whatever their title may be, for each sage coins titles anew with each writing).Many have theorized that the Seven Imaskarcana provide total understanding and much lost lore on each school of magic save Necromancy. While this supposes the existence of an eighth or further Imaskarcana, the few who entered the Plains of Purple Dust to prove this theory have never returned to add to the lore.

Many others have supposed that they each held the history of an age of Raurin, and the end of the Seventh Imaskari Age led to its destruction and the birth of the Old Empires.Still others suppose that each of the Seven holds innumerable secrets of magic, though they correspond to the humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, dragons, and a seemingly lost race of aquatic creatures.

All of these theories above suggest that the Imaskarcana were massive great-tomes bound in slate covers lined with blue dragon's skin, though the makeup of the pages was said to be vellum, the skin of humans or elves or even tanar'ri, or even crystal that was given the flexibility of paper without the weaknesses. Only a few sages think of these artifacts otherwise, though there are an isolated few from Thay who so dare.

The strangest suggestion, made by one Thamaultadh of Tyraturos, implies that the Seven Imaskarcana are not items or storehouses of lore so much as they are great menhirs of stone embedded with great magics and now lost in the Great Desert of Raurin. His theories, contained only in his notebooks (now safely ensconsed in Candlekeep after 480 years), suggest that the Imaskarcana projected a magical barrier around the Imaskari lands, protecting it from invasion by magical forces. He further supposed this was why the genies of Calim and Memnon settled Calimshan rather than the Inner Sea. The Seven lay in the western sands of the desert and were all that remained of a series of 28 menhirs that bordered the Imaskari's claimed lands.Thamaultadh's own apprentice and seventh son refuted his father's strange theory with one equally bizarre: The Seven Imaskarcana are neither books nor menhirs, though they could conceivably be both stores of knowledge and magical defenses of the Imaskar lands. Synnaros of the Twelve Tomes proposed that the Seven Imaskarcana were, in fact, seven massive but identical statues placed in various places now buried within the borders of the Raurin Desert. These golem-like statues appeared as sages sitting with an open tome upon their laps. Should folk uncover or find one of the Imaskarcana, they could ask questions of it, and it would provide any knowledge that it held.

Elminster's surprisingly close-mouthed about the truth of the matter, so he either doesn't know the answer or simply enjoys dribbling enough lore to whet the appetite without fully sating it. He did smirk about Synnaros' theory, and said

"I have seen one of these giant stone sages of Imaskar, aye. Whether it be one of Seven or an Imaskarcana at all is for someone of more rarified interest than mine own. Of course, ye can only get answers out of it if ye know the tongue of the Imaskari, for it only recognizes that tongue. There be only one Faerunian living or dead who might teach it to ye, and he's hardly one to welcome ye for a lesson while he wanders about the Underhalls......"

Is that sufficient for peoples' curiosities on these stray references? We'll probably never know more officially until we turn our attentions to that corner of Faerun again.....sometime in the distant future......"

But I for one appreciate the digression.

-- George Krashos

Asharak

Posted - 02 Feb 2019 : 20:34:51 Hi,From your excellent Lord of the End of Everything article, after "the historical period known as Shartra (or darkness in the Imaskari tongue)", imaskari "conquerors recovered the Golden Skins of the World Serpent that Jergal had discarded and over time and with much trial and loss, bent this artifact to their will, forming the fabled Seven Imarskana." This happened in the Late Period of the Imaskar Civilisation.

But from LEoF :"First Imaskarcana: Crafted by an ancient Lord Artificer in Inupras more than nine thousand years ago..." and "Fifht Imaskarcana: Forged some eight thousand five hundred years ago.. the fifht Imaskarcana contains the entire military history of Imaskar from -7500 DR onward"

And Ed Bonny reply : The date in the line reading "-3891 Under orders from Emperor Omanond, Imaskari artificers create seven tomes that record the empires immense magical lore for all eternity. These later become known as the Imaskarcana." should actually say -7891 DR. - Ed

This suggest the first imaskarcana was crafted in -7891 DR and the fifth imaskarcana circa -7500 DR.

So,-3891 : this is the False Imaskarcana imaskari forged after discovered the Golden Skins of the World Serpent...or-7891 : imaskari find the Golden Skins of the World Serpent whithout disturbing Jergal's sleep... nor discovering his presence... Jergal awake in -4370, discover the theft of the Golden Skins of the World Serpent and unleash "a plague on the unsuspecting Imaskari, which lead to the historical period known as Shartra"...

Just some digression...

George Krashos

Posted - 26 Jan 2019 : 03:39:35

quote:Originally posted by AezYour answer piqued my curiosity since I'm also working on filling in more of the blanks that I find in Impiltur's map. I've been using Markustay's map (http://candlekeep.com/images/sitegfx/mt_impiltur.jpg) as a reference, though it also seems to have sourced the incorrect locations from the Dragon #346 map.

Do you have any further descriptions or context for why the Grimjaws Seminary or Towers of Lamentation (or the Halls of Loyalty) are placed where they are?

No profound reasons. I just decided to put them there.

I think your conception for the Grimjaws Seminary works just fine.

As for fort locations, they were scattered all over, with most clustered along the river line and the two "Waters" but also some in the flat lands and along the Earthspurs. If I ever managed to do an Impiltur product for the DMs Guild, I'd get someone talented to do a big map with all sorts of stuff on there. I was working toward something like that with Markus Tay but he's moved on to other projects.

-- George Krashos

sleyvas

Posted - 24 Jan 2019 : 12:13:36

quote:Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:Originally posted by sleyvas

George,

How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could use the weave?

Like how I did that? Caught you unawares didn't I?

Is he using the spell Theover's Cutting Axe? That would greatly increase the rate of his woodchuckery.

Of course he is, he is after all Theover the Wizarding Woodchuck, creator of the Theover's Wizarding Hands Cantrip which temporarily allows him to cast spells with somatic components. Ah, such great scholarship, but of course you would know of him with your own interests. After all, he is known to live if Rashemen where he helps a small colony of dire beavers maintain several large damns which are also home to a colony of miniature giant space hamsters said to be "the grandchildren of the great and mighty Boo".

Barastir

Posted - 24 Jan 2019 : 11:03:05

quote:Originally posted by George KrashosWell it just so happens that when I visited Ed in August I took a few snaps of some of the original map pages sent to TSR. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you the JPEGs. (...)

-- George Krashos

Hey, Mr. Krashos, could you send me these pictures, too?

Wooly Rupert

Posted - 24 Jan 2019 : 01:51:03

quote:Originally posted by sleyvas

George,

How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could use the weave?

Like how I did that? Caught you unawares didn't I?

Is he using the spell Theover's Cutting Axe? That would greatly increase the rate of his woodchuckery.

sleyvas

Posted - 24 Jan 2019 : 00:45:52 George,

How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could use the weave?

Like how I did that? Caught you unawares didn't I?

Dravian

Posted - 22 Jan 2019 : 01:05:05

quote:Originally posted by George KrashosWell it just so happens that when I visited Ed in August I took a few snaps of some of the original map pages sent to TSR. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you the JPEGs. Btw, your re-done Fonstad maps look stunning. Do you do this for fun, work or a bit of both?

-- George Krashos

Wow, thanks so much! PM sent.

I dabble in Photoshop as a hobby. I made my own high-resolution scans of the Fonstad maps to work from, and have been meticulously editing them in my free time for the past several months. At first it was just to clean up the text, but then I got carried away. I can pass along the completed maps to you when I (eventually) finish.

*Edit* At least I thought I sent you a PM, but nothing is showing in my PM outbox, so it's possible I did something wrong. Let me know if you didn't receive it.

I've taken up a personal quest to compile a version of the Realms that's as close to Ed's original home Realms as possible. As part of that, I've been editing the Fonstad maps to conform to everything I know about Ed's home Realms.

Since you were recently lucky enough to see Ed's original Realms maps, I was wondering if you could look over my edits to the regions of the "Bloodstone Lands" and the Moonshae Isles, and let me know how warm I am. I based a lot of my edits to the "Bloodstone" region on information you shared earlier in this thread.

Well it just so happens that when I visited Ed in August I took a few snaps of some of the original map pages sent to TSR. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you the JPEGs. Btw, your re-done Fonstad maps look stunning. Do you do this for fun, work or a bit of both?

I've taken up a personal quest to compile a version of the Realms that's as close to Ed's original home Realms as possible. As part of that, I've been editing the Fonstad maps to conform to everything I know about Ed's home Realms.

Since you were recently lucky enough to see Ed's original Realms maps, I was wondering if you could look over my edits to the regions of the "Bloodstone Lands" and the Moonshae Isles, and let me know how warm I am. I based a lot of my edits to the "Bloodstone" region on information you shared earlier in this thread.

quote:Originally posted by George KrashosSo to your prime query, the original article had locations semi-specified for the Grimjaws Seminary and Towers of Lamentation but they didn't survive editing. The Grimjaws Seminary is found on the southern shore of the Bluefang Water (on your map, where the "d" in Uplands is) and the Towers of Lamentation are southwest of the Fortress of Mal, hard up against the Earthspur slopes (near where you have the Crowned King, just a bit southeast of that landmark - in fact the 'road' up to that landmark begins at the Towers).

Your answer piqued my curiosity since I'm also working on filling in more of the blanks that I find in Impiltur's map. I've been using Markustay's map (http://candlekeep.com/images/sitegfx/mt_impiltur.jpg) as a reference, though it also seems to have sourced the incorrect locations from the Dragon #346 map.

Do you have any further descriptions or context for why the Grimjaws Seminary or Towers of Lamentation (or the Halls of Loyalty) are placed where they are?

sleyvas

Posted - 27 Dec 2018 : 17:34:13 sidebar... thank you George for mentioning the other name of the Conjurer's tower (Dun Orthass) . that was racking my head earlier this morning

The Masked Mage

Posted - 27 Dec 2018 : 15:44:07 From my understanding of such things, "the Abyss" is basically the catch-all zone of the planes. The infinite planes that do not fit anywhere else find themselves there. Eltab's layer WAS and Is in the Abyss and pieces of it were pulled out of it with magic.

Being in the Abyss is sort of like being locked in the basement where no one can see you. Even very powerful demons need to be called out of it. Being a power on the Prime allows you to travel anywhere with relative ease. This is the most appealing thing for Eltab if you ask me.

George Krashos

Posted - 27 Dec 2018 : 11:25:51

quote:Originally posted by MisereorHi George,

From the Obyrith Shard/Blood War Cosmology stories, I got the distinct impression that when something like that happens, the corrupted plane in question either is cast or slips into the Abyss, resulting in the creation of a new layer (being how the Abyss was originally created and why the layers are so varied).

Is it because I am dead wrong, is it because Eltab doesn't have the above information, or is there be something else at work?

/BR

Okay, confession time: I don't follow Planescape, core D&D lore on the planes , etc. etc. I don't agree with core rules/lore subsuming or altering Realmslore. So what you point out may be true (I know nothing about the Obyrith Shard/Blood War cosmology stories and don't know whether what you are referring to is hard info, or in game stories or both) but has no bearing on the issue in question. Eltab is on the Prime. Parts of his Abyssal layer are on the prime. He seeks to transfer all of his layer to the Prime if he can wangle it. That's pretty much it in Realms terms. Whether it is possible, is something I don't know. Whether this will cause something to happen to the Abyss is something I don't know either (and don't really care to, truth be told). So basically, I don't have any answers to your query unfortunately. The real answer is, whatever suits you or seems the best fit for you. I throw a lot of balls into the air and don;t always catch them when they come down!

-- George Krashos

George Krashos

Posted - 27 Dec 2018 : 11:24:12

quote:Originally posted by MisereorHi George,

From the Obyrith Shard/Blood War Cosmology stories, I got the distinct impression that when something like that happens, the corrupted plane in question either is cast or slips into the Abyss, resulting in the creation of a new layer (being how the Abyss was originally created and why the layers are so varied).

Is it because I am dead wrong, is it because Eltab doesn't have the above information, or is there be something else at work?

/BR

Okay, confession time: I don't follow Planescape, core D&D lore on the planes , etc. etc. I don't agree with core rules/lore subsuming or altering Realmslore. So what you point out may be true (I know nothing about the Obyrith Shard/Blood War cosmology stories and don't know whether what you are referring to is hard info, or in game stories or both) but has no bearing on the issue in question. Eltab is on the Prime. Parts of his Abyssal layer are on the Prime. He seeks to transfer all of his layer to the Prime if he can wangle it. That's pretty much it in Realms terms. Whether it is possible, is something I don't know. Whether this will cause something to happen to the Abyss is something I don't know either (and don't really care to, truth be told). So basically, I don't have any answers to your query unfortunately. The real answer is, whatever suits you or seems the best fit for you. I throw a lot of balls into the air and don't always catch them when they come down!

-- George Krashos

Misereor

Posted - 27 Dec 2018 : 10:17:27

quote:Originally posted by George KrashosUnbeknownst to Fraz-Urb'luu, after his initial rage at being summoned and bound by the Narfelli, Eltab realised that he could seek to escape his controllers and create his own realm on the Prime, far away from the chaos, danger, treachery and intrigue of the Abyss. The fact that his summoning involved the bringing to the Prime of parts of his Abyssal layer made Eltab believe that with the passing of millennia he could seek to transfer his entire layer over, subsuming the Prime and ruling his own world in that regard.

Hi George,

From the Obyrith Shard/Blood War Cosmology stories, I got the distinct impression that when something like that happens, the corrupted plane in question either is cast or slips into the Abyss, resulting in the creation of a new layer (being how the Abyss was originally created and why the layers are so varied).

Is it because I am dead wrong, is it because Eltab doesn't have the above information, or is there be something else at work?

In your musings, have you ever considered what abyssal "portfolio" Eltab may have held? Hordes of the Abyss mentioned the abyssal equivalents of calling water "wet" so was hoping you might have bounced around some ideas that have a bit more flavour - especially if they are inspired by the title Lord of the Hidden Layer.

The 3E sourcebook Fiendish Codex - Hordes of the Abyss gives "hatred, retribution" as Eltab's areas of "concern" as well as confirming that his layer is 248.

I had mused a long while ago (and left a little Easter Egg in GHotR) that the last Nentyarch of Narfell, Rheligaun the Horned was a half-fiend son of Fraz'Urb-luu rather than Orcus. It was he who demanded the summoning and binding of Eltab at Dun Orthass (the Citadel of Conjurers) through assistance provided by his father - specifically information as to Eltab's truename so as to facilitate his binding.

So why Eltab? In noting his areas of "concern" it struck me that Eltab may have functioned as an Abyssal assassin for hire, used by anyone who could meet his price to eliminate rivals or key allies/underlings of various demon lords and princes. His layer was known as the Hidden Layer because access to it was very difficult - which is why despite his absence it has remained pretty much inviolate - and what access could be had was only to a very limited area. Eltab worked mainly through intermediaries re contacting and "hiring" him, the most powerful of which was the balor Ndulu, and was essentially a stone cold killer, enjoying the chaos caused by his nefarious slayings.

Given this role, Eltab had few if any Abyssal allies as he was feared by all. As such, his prospects of conquering layers of the Abyss to show his power and influence ala Graz'zt was impossible. As soon as he "came out in the open" he would have been targeted and slain in a rare demonic alliance.

Fraz-Urb'luu engineered his exile from the Abyss in revenge for Eltab's activities where he was tasked with and accomplished the slaying of at least a handful of the rakshasa known as the Hollow Rajahs, Fraz's most powerful servants, at the instigation of Orcus. Unbeknownst to Fraz-Urb'luu, after his initial rage at being summoned and bound by the Narfelli, Eltab realised that he could seek to escape his controllers and create his own realm on the Prime, far away from the chaos, danger, treachery and intrigue of the Abyss. The fact that his summoning involved the bringing to the Prime of parts of his Abyssal layer made Eltab believe that with the passing of millennia he could seek to transfer his entire layer over, subsuming the Prime and ruling his own world in that regard (Eltab is not the smartest demon lord going around, but certainly one of the most arrogant).

So, those are my thoughts on Eltab. Feel free to use any or none of that as you wish.

-- George Krashos

Derulbaskul

Posted - 14 Dec 2018 : 05:54:03 Hi George,

In your musings, have you ever considered what abyssal "portfolio" Eltab may have held? Hordes of the Abyss mentioned the abyssal equivalents of calling water "wet" so was hoping you might have bounced around some ideas that have a bit more flavour - especially if they are inspired by the title Lord of the Hidden Layer.