Giants must make arbitration decisions on Torres, Keppinger, Ramirez, others

The Giants have a whopping 13 players eligible for salary arbitration and they have until Monday to decide whether to tender contracts to each of them.

But realistically, the deadline is now. If they don’t plan to go through the process with Jeff Keppinger, Andres Torres, Ramon Ramirez or others, it’s to the club’s advantage to shop them now on the trade market and maybe get a trinket for them.

The Giants don’t have much leverage in this process, though. For instance, if they don’t believe Keppinger is worth a forecasted arbitration award of $3-4 million, it’s doubtful another club does, either. If you’re the Astros, say, and you’d like Keppinger back, better to wait for the non-tender date when he’ll be a free agent and can be signed for whatever the market may bear.

Based on what I’ve been told, it’s a fairly easy call for the Giants to non-tender Keppinger. He isn’t a utility infielder and his value is rather narrow. There’s a reason he hasn’t played much if any shortstop since 2008 with the Reds. He looked pretty wooden at second base, too. The only reason the Giants would hesitate is because they must have insurance for oft-injured Freddy Sanchez. But perhaps Mike Fontenot and Emmanuel Burriss (two other arbitration players, by the way) could suffice, as GM Brian Sabean proposed yesterday.

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The decisions are tougher on Torres and Ramirez, but the Giants appear to have a plan. If you put together separate reports from ESPN’s Buster Olney and CBS Sports’ Danny Knobler, Sabean will either trade or non-tender Torres. As of yesterday, Sabean said the jury was still out on whether Torres has a place on the roster as a fourth outfielder — an important role, given Aubrey Huff will need a defensive replacement often in left field.

Here’s what you should expect: The Giants will see if Torres can bring anything of value while they also look to upgrade their outfield in other deals. If the outside world offers few attractive alternatives, they could revisit re-signing Torres. But not through arbitration. Most likely, they’d submit a take-it-or-leave-it offer before the tender date — almost certainly for less than the $2.2 million Torres made last season. That’s what happened with Fontenot last winter, when he took a $1 million offer.

As for Ramirez, the Giants want him back but regard him as more fungible than Jeremy Affeldt, whose name also has come up in trade discussions. So they wouldn’t mind getting something in return for Ramirez and saving the $2 million or so he’d make in arbitration.

Whiteside is an almost certain non-tender, but the rest of this group is coming back, and not cheaply in some cases. Lincecum should get at least $18 million. Sandoval will get something in the neighborhood of $3.5 million. Vogelsong and Cabrera could command nearly $10 million between the two of them. (Sources tell me the Giants expect to work out a multiyear contract with Vogelsong, by the way.)

No wonder GM Brian Sabean is saying he lacks the bullets to go after even moderate free agents. The team already has roughly $81 million committed to eight players (including the released Aaron Rowand). That leaves $50 million under a $130 million budget, and like a plate of Rice Krispie treats in the back of the press box, it disappears fast. If the Giants were to tender offers to all 13 arbitration players, it would cost them roughly $45 million. Maybe $7-8 million less if you subtract Keppinger, Torres and Ramirez.

Not enough remaining for any big splashes.

(Standard disclaimer: It’s well within your rights to wail that the Giants should be spending more than $130 million on player payroll. But Sabean has to operate with the resources allocated to him.)

Andrew Baggarly

Andrew Baggarly has witnessed and documented the most eventful era in San Francisco Giants baseball history, having covered the team since 2004 for th​ree major media outlets including the San Jose Mercury News and the Oakland Tribune​. This will be his 20th season as a baseball writer.
​Baggarly is the author of the bestselling book, A Band of Misfits: Tales of the 2010 San Francisco Giants. A second title, Giant Splash, is due to be published by Triumph Books in April 2015.
Baggarly’s other notable life accomplishments include running as the Bratwurst in the Milwaukee Sausage Race and becoming a three-time Jeopardy! champion.

and many many other that i am sure i’m missing. I don’t count Zito, since that was Magowan’s fault.

Garret in Sac

ZITO WAS NOT SABEANS DECISION!!! Let it go already!

Garret in Sac

Benard and Tucker were not bad signings they were supposed to be complimentary players but asked to do more in Bonds injury years…

pacman68

I really love how the Marlins were screaming poverty last year and now they are throwing money around like Pacman Jones at a strip bar.

Baseball owners are the biggest liars.

Randy Focas

Yes, a strong argument could be made for raising payroll above the $130 million ceiling. A stronger argument should be made for holding Sabean & Company to the mark given the number of outrageous contracts handed out in previous years (Zito, Rowand, etc.). Take away those contracts and the Giants could sign the types of bats needed to make their run at dominance, given the pitching staff. Remember, the target is 4 runs per game. Give this staff a lineup that will produce four runs per game and the postseason will once again be reality. Full season of Posey, Panda, Sanchez, Cabrera, etc. should produce the four runs. Another upgrade, small as it might be, would all but guarantee the run support.

Out of Left Field

Agree with poster 8, Sabaen didn’t sign Zito. Peter Magowan did, just like he personally signed another guy named Barry.

Hansjawn

I believe the Giants should be approaching this spring (even last spring) similar to the Marlins. We need to spend the money while the time is right to get more world championships. If it takes another 10-20 million to bolster this hitting lineup while we have the incredible pitching, by goodness we should be doing it! I’m almost rooting for the Marlins because they’ve got the guts knowing they’re going to bring in lots of funds with the new stadium. We are simply cheapskates, at best.

hansjawn

Foothills Ryan

Here’s a Sabean hit destined to really hurt by late next year or 2014:

Zach Wheeler for 2 months Carlos Beltran w/o draft comps.

Is Jeff Keppinger a Futility Infielder ?

Keith W.

Keep Torres. Drop Keppinger. Ramirez depends on what’s available in a trade for him.

Joaquin

Is that Rice Krispie reference a jab at Schulman

ClutchUp

fungible – I like it ….

ClutchUp

pacman68

Honest to gods truth = Zito was entirely Peter McGowan’s doings. He was hell bent crossing over from Barry 25 to Barry 75. He made no bones about telling people that he wanted/signed Zito.

Jason

Foothills Ryan, thats if Zack Wheeler doesn’t become like most “future aces”… a complete dud. Giants evaluate amateur pitchers as good as anybody. Whatever you think of the trade, the Giants working with him everyday didn’t view him as untouchable. People who read BA top 10 lists do.

Anti-Lasorda

Between Hank and Ratto, I’m sure Andy only gets crumbs on those treats….

Sledge

If Sabes hadn’t signed Shinjo, we would have never heard the classic Lon Simmoms call setting the outfield “Shinjo, playing deep, any deeper and he’d be back in Japan”

Anti-Lasorda

Give Sabean the benefit on Wheeler…

example : Tim Alderson…

where is he now.

I’m just looking for Sabes to get the stones he first had when he took the job and did M.Williams for J.Kent, J.Tavares, J. Vizcaino, J. Roa….

That took some stones.

And trading Timm-eh next year will be the same.

I hope he still has them and his wife didn’t loose them in their closet.

The Wisdom Cow

BS, A-L,

Wheeler was a valued prospect that could have gotten a better return than a non-arb injury prone Beltran that displaced Nate and ruined club chemistry with O-Cab.

At the time of the deal, Wheeler’s apparent value is what mattered, and other clubs valued the kid. He was poorly spent.

No Longer Long Suffering Giants Fan

Let’s not forget, MacGowan was also the one who insisted on losing a 1st round pick to sign Tucker. Hasn’t anyone noticed how much smarter Sabean has gotten since MacGowan is gone.

Why is anyone surprised that the Marlins are no longer crying poverty? They have a new ballpark and in their old park there was zero income from both luxury boxes and signage. That alone makes a huge difference, not to mention the old park was a football stadium without a roof in a climate where it rains every day. New stadium has a roof.

hibcbcbc

Funny…not a single one of you has ANY DATA WHATSOEVER TO PROVE ZITO WAS NOT SABEAN’S DECISION.

NADA.

Sabean was the GM when Zito was signed. He signed off on it. He put the deal together.

It’s on him. Period. If he thought Zito was going to be an awful signing, he shouldn’t have done the deal.

PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD.

hibcbcbc

@No Longer Long Suffering Giants Fan,

Are you kidding me. Sabean’s smarter since McGowan left?

Um, how bout Aubrey Huff for 2 years and $22 million.

Same Sabean. Worst GM in the game with regards to signing free agents and making trades.

Sabean signed Zito. Sabean signed Rowand.

Stop making excuses for the guy.

The Wisdom Cow

Funny, not a single one of you has ANY DATA WHATSOEVER TO PROVE ZITO IS NOT REALLY A THANKSGIVING ALIEN HERE TO ENSURE STUFFING REMAINS IN OUR YEARLY DIET . . .

http://www.westcoastbias.com Pat

The problem is Sabean should have signed some of these guys (Lincecum, Sandoval) to long-term deals early in their careers when it looked like they were going to be studs. This could have bought a few free-agent years, and is a strategy a few other teams have used. Even Schierholtz would have been a good signing to a long-term deal, because we knew early on he was going to be a good defensive player for several years, no matter what he does with the bat.

hibcbcbc

WISDOM,

Sorry, time to shut down the Sabean apologists.

It’s a tired act. Dude got lucky for 90 days in the fall of 2010.

But he is a bottom tier GM who has a few scouts who can evaluate pitching.

The Wisdom Cow

I’m no apologist, but we actually have quotes from Magowan, Sabean, and others within the ownership group regarding Zito being Magowan’s infatuation/decision. Should Sabean have quit because his boss wanted to spend on Zito?

CB

I think Giants should bring back Ross. If Huff flails out in LF, Ross can take over there and at worst Ross can play all three outfield spots and serve as a platoon in LF with Huff and RF Schierholtz. He makes more sense bringing back on a two year deal rather than bringing Torres back. Fontenot, I’d love to have back to be our middle infield backup at SS and 2B rather than a more expensive Keppinger who is limited to one position at 2B as a backup. Other than that, if not Ross or Beltran. Lets get Ryan Ludwick. He swings a mean bat and change of scenery and a return to the NL West might be good for him.

http://channelclemente channelclemente

TWC,

you’ve climbed mount sanquine. Sometimes you fight, sometimes you go with the flow.

ClutchUp

CB:

Ross and agent has high-balled SF. They say they want a three yr deal and some how he feels he deserves to be an every day starter

I like Ludwick, plays hard!

pete from PP

Wisdom cow-

When wheeler was traded the Giants were 3 games up in the west and it seemed that adding beltran gave us depth into the playoffs

It was a good trade at the time- when viewed against the team collapse, injury, and yet to be determined wheeler performance- we will see.

Another poster is another thread made the most insightful criticism of Sabean/Giants-

They don’t seem to understand where the team is positioned- IE 2010 was a surprise even to the management, they don’t know if they are rebuilding or peaking etc.

They seem to spend money when they should be allocating for the future and they allocate for the future when they should be spending.

In general I think the overall philosophy of the Giants boils down to:

“a competitive product in a really nice stadium ”

There is no drive or urgency to win championships- they really only care to be competitive, and this has worked for years and shows no signs of changing.

Jared

Trade Lincecum for Hanley straight up. Think about it! It makes perfect sense for both clubs.

http://channelclemente channelclemente

CB,

if they can’t find a LF between Huff, Belt, and Melky, they need to give it up. Besides, if Reed Johnson is available, he can actually hit dependably.

ClutchUp

Jeremy Ainsworth was supposed to be a star…

Anti-Lasorda

Luwick is done….

look at his last three years and note he’s 33…..

Declines in avg/obp/slug in each of the last three seasons.

No thanks, I’lll pass…..

Makes him a perfect Sabean signing BTW….

Angry Dan

This stat seems to bear repeating over and over here. Giants runs scored in the past 7 YEARS! The data doesn’t lie. Sabean has no clue in how to build a competitive offense.

2005: 29th out of 30
2006: 24th out of 30
2007: 29th out of 30
2008: 29th out of 30
2009: 26th out of 30
2010: 17th out of 30
2011: 29th out of 30

Bapah

CC-Philosopher King
Jared-Are you nuts? Hanley is a plague AND a buffoon.

The Wisdom Cow

Pete, adding Beltran was a plus, but Sabean overpaid significantly, Wheeler’s subjective value could have been better. That was my position when it happened, and nothing has changed my mind about it.

I totally agree that they have little clue as to the position of their team. The worst part being that Bochy is given the reigns when all feel the development of at least some youth is needed, which is not his forte.

Anti-Lasorda

Lincecum for Gabby Sanchez, Emilio Bonfacio and Logan Morrisson might be more likely…..

orangeandblack

Keep Keppinger and Torees. Kep was one of the Giants’ best hitters – a consistent ball in play guy. His D is good enough. We don’t want to be flat like at short last year if Freddy goes down, and Kepp will help keep Freddy fresh. Torres is probably our best fielding outfielder, and would be a good late inning defensive replacement for Cabrera. Besides, he’d probably take a million and be glad.

Hey by fungible does Bags mean fungo-able?

Darren

I’m getting tired of all the bashing of Sabes and Boch. If you want to knock them for what they are responsible for, cool. But if you want to get pissed about the lack of activity, take it out on the A-holes who deserve it. Not too mention they’re also responsible for Neukom getting canned. They completely take for granted that the ballpark is always full and that they have good fans. This front office sucks!

SFGiants25

the ballpark generated a ton of money for the ball club last year. its time they sign a big bat to help the pitching staff. trading wheeler for beltran hurts of course, but it was a risk that might have payed out if the Giants made the playoffs. with the pitching staff they have they might have been able to go deep in the playoffs.

willieD

Beltran was a tough call, but look at the options: Pence, for whom stros wanted a lot more than wheeler, and bourn, strictly a leadoff guy who was going to need someone to drive him in if he got on. Beltran got hurt, didn’t play OF well, rebounded too late.
As to your post on another thread about drafting pitching and then trading it for bats, you have to admit SF has been very astute in acquiring likes of Cain, Lince, Bum and wilson. You can also factor in Sabean picking up Lopez, Ramirez and Affeldt. Giants have been better at this than anyone, and the deal to acquire Freddy Sanchez worked out well 2010. He was having a great season last year til he got hurt, something you can’t blame Sabes for. But there isn’t anyone to deal now to pick up a middle order bat.
As Baggs admitted today in the live chat, there isn’t anyone to replace the current Big 3 among SP prospects. That makes them untradeable, because the alternatives are Zito and Surkamp behind Vogs, whom I don’t think will near duplicate 2011. Trade one of Big 3 and the above make 90 plus starts. No thx.

BigJanks

You all need to relax. Too much crying going on. We roughly had the same team going in to Spring Training last year and everyone was excited. We were a great team up until early August when injuries finally caught up to us.

If Freddy and Posey come back healthy, then we’ll be fine. If Huff can regain 2010 form, we’ll be fine. Yes- these are big IF’s…..but we have no other choice than to move forward with what we have and hope that these 3 players can rekindle what they had in 2010 or early 2011.

Not the sexiest lineup, but it has the potential to be a middle of the pack offense.

THAT’S ALL WE NEED WITH THIS PITCHING STAFF.

Everyone needs to settle down with these complaints about throwing ridiculous contracts to other hitters. We need to take care of the guys that won us a WS in 2010. Our young core that other teams would kill to have. Timmy, Cain, Posey, Pablo, Bumgarnder, Belt……These are guys that you build dynasties around. The other pieces will fall in to place. Take care of these guys first and then bring in the outside bats/arms. If we do that now- we will lose these young guys when it’s time to resign them.

Our SP and Bullpen is top 3 in the majors. If we field a strong defensive SS and defensive RF along with the core of Posey, Pablo, Belt, Freddy, Huff and Cabrera then I don’t see what all the fuss is about.

We have a playoff caliber team. We just need to get in to the playoffs and then let the real MVPs take over: Timmy, Cain, Bumgardner

Stop fretting guys. We will be fine!

livefree

So the Giants did not truly eat Rowands contract, clearly

http://www.brewedforthought.com Mario

I love reading the comments section. Everyone is so up in arms over a team that barely missed the playoffs despite losing two all-star caliber players for the majority of the year and are 1 year removed from a World Series ring.

Settle down. If the Giants do exactly what they did last year minus the injuries to Posey and Sanchez, would that be so horrible?

The anger you hear about Sabean would make you think this was a Cubs board, or a Royals board? How many fans out there wish their team could make 2 World Series appearances in the last 10 years and actually come away with a victory in one of them? Should A’s fans be the Bay Area fans up in arms over their team?

ClutchUp

BigJanks says: December 6th, 2011 at 1:07 pm 47..

*Superb =+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *

pete from PP

Wisdom-

I dont know if Wheeler was an overpay- will find out.

But my general take is leverage everything while you have 2 of the best pitchers in the game. The Giants window is closing, they need an outfield bat, a SS, and realistically a 2B.

Now is the time, the chance for a championship is now-

One year or one injury away for half a decade of .500 ball

pete from PP

should say

One year or one injury away from a half decade of .500 ball

http://channelclemente channelclemente

BigJanks,

Ditto, in extremous. Without last years injuries, we walk away with the NL West and then toss the dice in the post season.

Frenchy

Sabean didn’t sign Shinjo, he traded Shawn Estes to the Mets for Shinjo and Desi Relaford. He then turned Desi into David Bell. It wasn’t a bad deal at all, especially since the Mets had to pay Estes 6 mil that year. If you’re going to complain, at least know the facts.

primetimedonna

Bravo Big Janks!!!

Jstreet

Sorry, time for some of you to start following different team, or maybe a different sport. The Atletics have some good seats available.

All of the nay- saying nincompoops are like a stuck record. All hat, no cattle.

You talk like you consider yourselves experts, like it’s your own money. All you have to do to alleviate your suffering is to stop following the team. Easy. Some of you come off like a bunch of opinionated, conceited children. Lighten up, already.

“Don’t look back, something could be gaining on you.” Satchel Paige

Or, put another way, “Hey, you get off of my cloud.” Keith Richard

Let’s try to be a little more reasonable around here. Too much stink.

Coopdawg

I’m in agreement with a lot of the posters on here that it’s certainly not panic mode time. The Giants still finished with a winning record, but simply got outplayed by a motivated and talented Diamondback team. Injuries aside we still had the roster to win the division last season. Keppinger and Sanchez post very similar numbers. Beltran replaced Posey’s numbers. The drop in production came from the people who suffered from championship hangover. They came to spring training unprepared, out of shape, and/or unable to produce like they did in 2010. I’m looking at Torres and Huff when I say this. Ross takes a lot of heat, but I always felt the expectations were too high for him after the strong postseason.

I think that Torres and Huff will come back more motivated to compete after letting down the team last season. Ross shouldn’t be brought back because there’s not really a place for him with Belt in LF. I would rather see us just stick to Belt if we’re gonna use him. Stop the yo-yo-ing so we can see if he’s actually an MLB caliber LFer. Schierholtz and Torres are guaranteed to have at least 1 DL stint this next season. So, we need some depth in case they both go down. We’ll need to pick up one more OF or give Brown/Peguero a chance should the double injury occurs.

Coopdawg

Also, in regards to Hanley…even the Marlins DO trade him because of his immaturity to accept Reyes is a better SS than he is. You certainly will not pay high for him. You buy low because the player is forcing the GMs hand. You can get him at a lower price than you could normally. If the GM doesn’t trade Hanley then he has a disgruntled 3B player and a locker room cancer. Besides with all the big contracts Miami is picking up they would probably go for Prospects over 20 million dollar pitchers.

Angry Dan

It’s clear that a middle of the road offense, with this pitching staff, will make this team a World Series contender. I will gladly stop being a naysaying nimcompoop if I believed for one second that this team can score 100 more runs than last season to become a middle of the road offense. For the life of me, I don’t understand how a lot of you guys believe that Huff can be a big factor in helping out with those extra 100 runs. He’s 35 years old now and he’s only had 4 great months in his last 3 seasons. The Giants have a pitching staff that can help this team be World Series contenders year in and year out. It’s a shame that ownership, while selling out the stadium and charging upwards of $75 for view box left field seats to some games last year, won’t add to the payroll and bring in a difference-maker to the offense when you have the pitching staff to go for it now. The pitching staff is only getting older as each year passes.

By the way, for the record, the Giants didn’t “barely” miss the playoffs last year. They finished 4 back of the wild card, 8 back of Arizona, and were outscored by 8 runs for the whole season.

napacat

I don’t mind if the Giants non-tender Torres only to re-sign him for a lower price. But if they let him go entirely? It had better be only for someone who has some _wheels_. Torres hit .221 last year, and Ryan Ludwick hit .237 (per the MLB player pages as of this morning.). Sacrificing Torres’ excellent defense for that makes no sense at all.

It was bad enough last year watching Timmy try to contain his frustration when balls that Nate would have caught fell in front of Beltran for hits. Unless Sabes expects our pitching staff to have to strike everyone out, defense has to be considered. Whoever comes in for Huff in late innings needs to be a stopper with the glove. Torres is that.

Yes, it would be nice if our 4th/5th outfielder was a more consistent hitter than Andres was last year. But only if the overall package was actually a significant upgrade. And I don’t see the Giants getting that for the dollar savings they claim to be seeking.

Coopdawg

Angry Dan: Huff is on a very short leash this season with the Giants management. If he doesn’t play well again then they will need to use someone else at 1B. However, this will test the depth of the Giants! If they move Belt to first then who plays LF? You will rob from Peter to pay Paul.

Even when the Zito, Rowand, and Huff contracts are off the books there’s no sense in discussing serious upgrades to the offense. Rowand and Huff are off the books after this season, and Zito after two more. By then it’ll be time to pay Madison Bumgarner his arbitration, Lincecum will have his huge contract, and so will Cain. Panda and Wilson aren’t going to get any cheaper. What the Giants need to continue to do is draft and develop our farm system. Our minor league players are dramatically better than they were 3-4 years ago, but there’s still a long ways to go for us to catch up to the other clubs. Sabean historically hasn’t done a good job of developing position players, but with the addition of Evans and Barr we’ve turned that around. Now we see Posey, Belt, Brown, Peguero, Joseph, etc throughout the system. I think the patient approach is the good one for improving our team. Save the money for keeping our own talent we develop.

Angry Dan

Coopdawg, I was all for the patient approach from 2005-2010 when they didn’t really have the tools to win. Instead, the Giants kept spending their money on old veterans instead of playing and developing their young players in those years while handcuffing the future (cough Rowand cough Zito cough cough cough). Now, it’s time to win. Lincecum and Cain are in their prime years. The pitching staff is ready to win now. When you have a pitching staff that is this good, you have to go for it. Pitching is such a fragile commodity. One day you have it, the next day, someone’s elbow or shoulder can blow out. Who knows if Cain and Lincecum and Bumgarner will continue to be healthy and effective a few years down the road? Who knows if Lincecum even wants to stay here once he becomes a free agent? Do you want the Giants sinking 8 years $200 million on Timmy if he chooses to go year by year for the next two years and hit free agency after 2013? They should be going all in now for 2012 and 2013 while they know they still have this pitching staff intact.

EZANO

Ah, it’s good to be back on the old Extra Baggs comment forum. Consider this:
Bill Neukom takes over Giants, his sole focus is winning baseball games. In less than two years, his team wins the World Series. Less than a year later, he’s kicked out b/c the investors want to line their pockets with the extra revenue earned by said championship, whereas Neukom would’ve reinvested the extra cash back into the team with the sole intent of WINNING MORE BASEBALL GAMES. Moreover, the result is we don’t have enough money to compete with the likes of Michael Cuddyer; not even a top tier free agent.

I love this organization, but its leadership is robbing the fan base blind and using our money to buy themselves new yachts instead of paying to compete in MLB. It’s sad and disgusting.

Angry Dan

And before anyone jumps on me by including 2010 in the last statement, I meant going into 2010, when most people didn’t think they had enough to win it all.

Sabean has been great in putting together a team that many of you fail to recognize: Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Wilson, Romo, Posey, Sandoval, Belt. If it were up to any of you complainers, one or more of them would have been traded (and not well, as the Rios deal would have been up there with George Foster in bad trades). Lets see how your glass houses would hold up if we applied your same standards to your own recommendations that the Giants should do.

He deserved the Championship that they won for the great job he did in putting together this great young core of players, despite Magowan’s twin anchors of Zito and Rowand (keep up boys, Baggerly reported a couple of months ago that Magowan was the one behind those two moves), which basically made a $120M payroll into an $88M payroll. He got a well deserved two year extension.

Anyone complaining about the Giants $130M payroll forget that as one of the larger revenue generators, they have to pay a huge amount into revenue sharing (which basically goes straight to the A’s in the process), even more starting in 2011 because they amortized the stadium under a 10 year plan with regards to revenue sharing, so the money they had to pay went up even more starting in 2011. On top of that, they also have to pay another $20M for the ballpark debt, and they get less and less tax writeoff because they are paying more principal than interest by now. They also have to pay for the upkeep of the stadium, another expense that other teams don’t have, though hopefully the other events help to offset for that, though I would doubt there are enough events to do that.

Lance Newberry

“Barry Zito is owed $19 million in 2012, $20 million in ’13 and there’s a $7 million (!!) buyout on an $18 million club option for ’14″

I realize that the Giants didn’t have to give him that money and that it’s a signed contract and too bad and all, but MAN, I just really look for a moment at those numbers and I have to wonder how Zito sleeps at night.

He’s stealing that money, contract or not.

And it may well be true that it was McGowan who made that epically foolish deal, but Sabean was also right there, standing next to him the whole time. Did he have no voice to speak? He couldn’t convince a smart guy like McGowan what a moronic deal that was? Were there late-night screaming matches where Sabean RAILED at his boss to see the monstrous stupidity of it all?

I just can’t believe that if Sabean had taken a hard professional stand and EMPHATICALLY worked his boss over on that deal – truth to power and all that – that McGowan would have told him to just shut up.

No matter whose idea it was, Sabean must also be held accountable for the Zito deal. Arguably the worst free agent deal of ALL TIME, a deal that is KILLING the Giants at the most important point in their long history, was made on Sabean’s watch, and at his elite level of position and power he doesn’t get to just duck out and say it wasn’t his fault.

http://channelclemente channelclemente

Lance,

every Don Quixote needs a windmill.

stickman

Very good post, BigJanks. You said much of what i planned on covering, so less to say on my part. This blog tends to draw in a number of comments from guys who are Jonesing for baseball and currently are deeply focussed on the Winter Meetings and prime Free Agent season and hoping for a big splash for a middle of the order slugger. Ain’t gonna happen this go-round. Not one out there who fits the Giants needs. Giants could use a Carlos Quentin type. He’s being shopped actively by the ChiSox. Team could also use a utility I.F.er who can play a decent SS. Both needs might come by way of the trade route.

Just in case the team doesn’t make any big moves any time soon, not to fret. Best overall pitching staff in the game. Posey and Sanchez coming back. With Belt at 1B and Buster behind the plate we are looking at a near world-class infield to back up that staff. Belt, Buster and Pablo are all Gold Glove candidates, at least so far as applied talent goes. Anyone recall the magic play Freddy turned in during the W.S. last year, particularly in Game Four? Crawford may never hit lefties, but defensively he is slick. Outfield is still a work in progress with Huff in the mix and that’s why i think Sabean will pull off something to tighten up things in that department.

Offensively, the team could well score a hundred more runs than they did last season. Posey is a smart, solid hitter, capable of both decent pop and going the other way. Belt has a classic swing and if he doesn’t get jacked around like this past season he could readily go .280, 20, 80. Melky had a breakthrough season with K.C. and shouldn’t take too long to adapt to the N.L. West. His numbers may go down because of the division ~ but they will not take a swan dive. Approaching his late 20′s he’s coming into his peak years. Freddy, though without much pop, can deliver doubles, take walks and go the other way. He did win a batting title with the Pirates, after all. Before getting injured, Nate was coming into his own last year. He’s never likely to develop much of a power-stroke, but can hit the gaps. Huff may or may not recover some of his Championship luster. He should, though, improve over last year.

Left out a couple of hitters who are likely to start. Though he needs a complement at SS who can hit lefties even a bit, Crawford did display occasional pop last year and in his second full year is not unlikely to hit what you expect from a slick SS ~ somewhere in the .240-.250 range. Finally we come to Pablo. His shoulder is okay. He continues to work on weight and conditioning. His bad eye got fixed. I expect a monster breakout year from the Panda. If Pablo hits .325, with 35 dingers and 105 RBI’s, i will not be the most shocked and surprised of all known Giants fans. Sandoval has Triple Crown potential. Unless another injury happens, he could well be in competition for league MVP ~ and in the process help carry the Giants into the Playoffs once again.

cadan

Per Baggs Twitter…..Giants trade proposal believed to be Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez to the Mets for Angel Pagan. Not definite, but promising.

That would be a great trade! Pagan would be a huge upgrade over torres and your only giving ramirez to do it

PaulHeally

My GOODness, we just traded Andres Torres for……Andres Torres!!!! Andres Torres is Angel Pagan and Angel Pagan is Andres Torres–AND we threw Ramon Ramirez in to boot!!!!!! About the only positives is Pagan is two-years younger and can hit right handed!!!! I HOPE this isn’t The Blockbuster!!!!

BigJanks

@stickman

I’m in total agreement. Perfect post.

Need to look for the updated blog to post thoughts about Pagan. Initial reaction…..LOVE IT

TheWillies

Well, now The Giants have 12 players that are arbitration eligible. The Pagan acquisition means that Cody Ross is gone. I don’t like the idea of The Giants putting all their eggs in the Freddy Sanchez basket. And Emmanuel Burris as his backup? Give me a break!