Quite a bit actually.But i dont see why you would bother using the 2 prot pieces.Best "should" be 2p ret t13 + 2p prot t12 for most dmg (last time i checked 2p prot outperformed 2p ret from t12)Problem with 2P ret t13 is that you have soo much holy power!Its hard getting into the rotation with so much tbh ^^Id estimate about 10%? more dps as prot? IF rotation is done right, takes practice tho.

Just be aware that the PvP gloves are misleading; the effective increase to your WoL CS damage is only 1%, not 5%. Which is likely only an increase of ~0.3% overall, or ~75-80 DPS. You can do almost as well with several other items, including the valor gloves and heroic Fireskin Gauntlets from T12. I've put in DPS stat weights that comparison, so the "Score" is the DPS value of each item based on those stat weights. As you can see, all of the alternatives beat the PvP gloves in raw stats by up to ~36 DPS, so the net gain by going to the PvP gloves is only about 40 DPS. You might see a larger gain by using heroic T13 gloves (reforge dodge->exp) if it lets you use a hit/exp item in another slot where you'd otherwise couldn't.

Thx for the warning about the pvp gloves, would of hated to put myself and a friend through a load of arena tonight only to of found that out afterwards.I'm at 27 exp and 4% hit atm, so I'll probably have to wait for normal mode tier drops to make running with 2p ret viable.Thx againDaish

Daishan"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett

Are you telling me that 2 replacing my 2 parts T12 HC Ret by 2 parts T13 HC Ret would make me loose dps? My personal thoughts on this were that the dps gain granted by the bonus were roughly the same but that the strengh increase on T13 HC would make the difference. So were is truth?

Cema wrote:Are you telling me that 2 replacing my 2 parts T12 HC Ret by 2 parts T13 HC Ret would make me loose dps? My personal thoughts on this were that the dps gain granted by the bonus were roughly the same but that the strengh increase on T13 HC would make the difference. So were is truth?

Yes, stick with T12 HC Ret.

Why: The DPS gain granted by 2T12 Ret is smaller than 2T13 Ret, for Retribution. Remember that they cast CS less than us (33% less, roughly), have a longer 0->3 HP ramp-up time (13.5s for 3 CS's rather than 9s for us, which is often lower thanks to Grand Crusader), and TV represents a much larger damage increase than SotR. Ret DPS is very heavily dependent on HPG, so getting HP from Judgement is a very large DPS for them.

Because we cast more Crusader Strikes, and because CS makes up more of our damage (30% or more, usually), the DPS gain from 2T12 is uncommonly large. Similarly, at high hit/exp, our rotation ends up having very few empty GCDs. Remember that SotR hits (not crits) for roughly the same as J or AS. So we don't gain as much by casting more SotR's, especially because it generally means we have fewer Sacred Duty procs to make them auto-crits.

As a result, the simulations I've run show that while T13 Ret 2-piece is roughly 1000 DPS at low hit, it drops to around 400 DPS at hit/exp cap (and less yet if the boss can't parry, like Ultrax).

You can estimate the gain from strength easily enough. You're probably using T12H ret gloves/legs in your Ultraxion setup, but let's do a best-case scenario where you're considering upgrading the helm/chest instead. You gain 89 STR from the helm slot, and around 129 from the chest (it's actually a little less effective than this, since you can use a hit/str gem in the T12 chest for extra DPS). That's 218 Strength, at around 1.4 DPS per point (strength is a weak stat for us), or around 300 DPS.

So you sacrifice a 1k+ DPS proc from 2T12H Ret to gain a 400 DPS proc from 2T13H Ret (and possibly less - again, Ultrax doesn't parry, so it's likely less than 300 DPS) plus around 300 DPS worth of STR, at most. Still a net loss.

Another thing to consider is to start skipping prot gear entirely. You really don't need to be block-capped for Ultraxion, as his melees aren't all that bad. You could drop 5-10% CTC and still survive pretty well with permanent Holy Shield and high-uptime Divine Protection. That strategy might let you swap out a mastery trinket for another DPS trinket, for example. It's all a matter of how much your healers are willing to put up with.

Ok so I smashed a bit more tonight and nearly broke 30k (29k9) but died something like 12 seconds before the boss. In fact I was sitting at 31k1. I had to sacrifice my block cap and while the boss played it fair and square during 4minutes he just raped me for 240k before dying (I had the +100% damage debuff and the other tank had a 3 seconds debuff ... so there were no other option ... )

I oftenly use stam flask because stam is not so much under strengh on fights like this when you spend your time with 100% vengeance after the first minute. And btw with no block cap, stamina is most welcome. If I was able to have my block cap I believe I would go for strengh flask yes

Licence to slay and Essence of the Eternal Flame are ok but not as much as heart of Rage on a tank&spank fight. But yes I'd like to replace my heart of Rage by the Creche of the Final Dragon HC (won't be able to get the normal mode one since I don't do normal mode)

I didn't take into account the fact that you use some of them more in combination with avenging wrath than others but if you look closely it wouldn't change the fact that Heart of Rage is really ahead LtS and EotEF