Ngmoco CEO Neil Young says the "PSP is done and the NGP is dead on arrival" and he places the blame squarely at the feet of the iPhone.

The portable gaming arena is an interesting place these days. The Nintendo 3DS is rolling out and Sony's NGP isn't too far behind, yet all eyes seem to be turned toward the iPhone and its Android-based cousins, and more to the point their app stores, which are overflowing with literally hundreds of thousands of apps, many free or very close to it. If you've played around with an iPhone in recent months, you know it brings some pretty serious gaming power to the party and Young, who founded ngmoco in 2008, thinks there's big trouble ahead for conventional handheld makers.

"I think they are hurt; I think they're clearly hurt. I think PSP is done and the new [NGP] is dead on arrival," he told IndustryGamers. "It's really difficult to compete with an app store that has hundreds of thousands of applications and a wide range of options where the average price paid is around $1.20 and there are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of free applications that are really high quality. So I just don't think Sony's going to be able to compete with that."

He denied that the PSP or its successor recreate a "PS3 quality experience" and said the broad range of functionality available on the iPod Touch and iPhone trumps the pure processing power of Sony's devices. Nintendo is a little better off, he added, thanks to its library of hugely popular games and characters.

"I think Nintendo will likely be competitive," he said. "Nintendo has great franchises and there are tens of millions of people who want to participate in those franchises, so that always helps... But the real question is the degree to which there's a third-party community."

As a publisher of iPhone and Android games, it's fair to assume that Young is a little biased in this matter, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong. Calling the NGP "dead on arrival" may be a bit extreme but handheld gaming has an inherently greater appeal to the mass market simply because of its reach. You buy a DS or a PSP because you want to play certain games on it; you buy an iPhone because, hey, you need a phone. Once that happens, and the floodgates of the app store open up on you, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the odds of picking up a dedicated handheld are significantly reduced.

I dont want to go the rest of my portable gaming life playing adapted flash games where theres a risk of being interupted by some douche friend who wants to chat for 5 mins. I want to play at least decent full games that will keep me interested during my time on the train and bus or when I have time to kill and cannot access or dont feel like using my consoles or laptop.

And no i dont care about what way north is, if theres something shiny underneath the ground or where someone might have stashed something. The only utility a handheld absolutely needs is the ability to tell the time.

manythings:I'm calling soundbyte, press release bullshit on this. He would be saying the exact same thing if the NGP gave blowjobs.

Except, if the NGP DID do that, it would be all the more awesome to catch him using it. Just imagine if he repeated this the day of the NGP's release, then caught later that night on video getting said blowjob from it?

Well, for the Flash games. HTML5 is gaining ground fast, I personally know many coders who are messing with it.

Though, the PSP2, NGP, whateverthefuck it's called is most definitely not dead on arrival, it has many versatile ways to play games and will play 'Actual' games, not Angry Birds.If it fails, I will blame Sony's extremely weak entrance with it.

Until he shows me a cell phone that doesn't cost me a crazy amount of money each month for the calling plan and the data plan that you HAVE to have because it's a smart phone, he can take his app store and shove it.

So what I got from that is some jack off who makes games for the iphone is a moron. His comments make about as much sense as somebody from zynga saying that PC gaming is going to fail because of facebook games. The kind of people who are willing to drop $200+ on a NGP are not doing it for the type of games you can find on an iphone. I honestly dont even think this guy knows what a PSP or the NGP actually is.

I agree with the NGP being doa. The first thing I thought when I bought my PSP back in 2005 was: "This thing really needs a touch screen."

Sony has this weird thing they do where they believe there product can't fail because it says Sony on it and fanboys will buy it just because of that. So now they decided that a 3D screen isn't necessary, just like the thought the rumble feature in their first PS3 controller wasn't necessary. Then a couple of years later, they make a Wii clone remote.

Good analysis/conclusion, Andy. Certainly not done for, but the conventional handhel market is in for the toughest ride yet. Especially since they vehemently refuse to implement support for mobile broadbands, and the prospect of online multiplayer is one of the major appeals of Android and iPhone.

gigastar:I dont want to go the rest of my portable gaming life playing adapted flash games where theres a risk of being interupted by some douche friend who wants to chat for 5 mins. I want to play at least decent full games that will keep me interested during my time on the train and bus or when I have time to kill and cannot access or dont feel like using my consoles or laptop.

Worgen:ehh the problem with phone and pad stuff is that its really hard to get past simple flash games, most of which you can play for free on a site like newgrounds or kongregate

This. The main problem with mobile gaming is that it's all basically flash-based games similar to those lame ones on Facebook.

On Android, there is even a real-time, twitch-based, cockpit view space simulation MMO, that is also available for Mac, Linux and Windows. And just about every other genre at one point deemed "impossible to port to or develop for mobile devices". In fact, there is not a single game genre that is not present and working very well on iOS/Android/Windows Mobile 7 devices. And all above-mentioned games play GREAT, without being hampered by control or screen issues.

You had better point me in the direction of these flash games of similar quality, for I will never have to purchase another game again ;-)

Seeing as almost every argument against Android, Windows Mobile and iOS as gaming platforms is either irrational ("Android games are ported flash games") or based on a lack of experience ("it is impossible to play beat em ups on a touch screen"), I'm starting to believe that the true fuel for the anti-touch screen gaming crowd is the age-old fanboy my console versus your console sentiment.

Meh, I'm personally looking forward to the NGP, and I'm not going to let some guy from a company I've honestly never heard of, change my mind. Aside from that, of course he thinks the Iphone and Ipad are the way of the future, his company makes games for those platforms so of course, he's going to say that the other platforms suck and are going to fail.

ChillShark:I agree with the NGP being doa. The first thing I thought when I bought my PSP back in 2005 was: "This thing really needs a touch screen."

Sony has this weird thing they do where they believe there product can't fail because it says Sony on it and fanboys will buy it just because of that. So now they decided that a 3D screen isn't necessary, just like the thought the rumble feature in their first PS3 controller wasn't necessary. Then a couple of years later, they make a Wii clone remote.

When are they going to make it so that the PS# can play flv. vids?

OR, and I know this is a major, major thing, OR possibly that is your opinion (and a rather biased one based on what you said, ironic you mention fanboism).

I think that's a little extreme. He does have a point. Most people who want a portable console don't really want to be playing a 'proper' game when they're out and about, casual games are much more popular to just pass the time on the bus. For that, an iTouch or something is a lot better than what Sony is offering. But I think if there are enough people who want 'proper' portable gaming then it could do well.

That said, as a recent recipient of an iPhone, you can't beat Worms Armageddon 2.

ChillShark:I agree with the NGP being doa. The first thing I thought when I bought my PSP back in 2005 was: "This thing really needs a touch screen."

Sony has this weird thing they do where they believe there product can't fail because it says Sony on it and fanboys will buy it just because of that. So now they decided that a 3D screen isn't necessary, just like the thought the rumble feature in their first PS3 controller wasn't necessary. Then a couple of years later, they make a Wii clone remote.

When are they going to make it so that the PS# can play flv. vids?

lol @ implying that the only people buying NGP must be Sony fanboys, you sir must be a unique individual for being free of Sony's wicked mind control powers.

Ok, I've tried to play emulators on my Android, and the controls are messy as all hell. The touch screen controls not only block a third of the screen (the most important parts too, the left and right....) but the physical keyboard on my phone is much to awkward to use unless you buy a third party add-on that you have to stick in your pocket as well. I've found action games difficult, and fighters physically impossible to play. The only type that works are games like Pokemon, which are great fun, but I still find times when I bumble around with the controls because with the huge number of buttons on my slide out keyboard I accidentally hit the wrong one.

What I think is that phone based touch screen games will be is what the already are. Mostly more casual simple games. We have 3 different types of platforms. Consoles/Pc, Hand helds, and Mobile phones.

The only games that Iphone/Android phones (except the new Sony phone with dedicated buttons) can play well are either simple things like angry birds (which I admit I loved as a mindless time waster) Or very slow, possibly turn based games like rpgs.

TLDR: Touch screen smart phones have infuriating controls and will never beat traditional hand helds at the games currently being released for them (except possibly the Xperia Play)

Ayjona:Good analysis/conclusion, Andy. Certainly not done for, but the conventional handhel market is in for the toughest ride yet. Especially since they vehemently refuse to implement support for mobile broadbands, and the prospect of online multiplayer is one of the major appeals of Android and iPhone.

gigastar:I dont want to go the rest of my portable gaming life playing adapted flash games where theres a risk of being interupted by some douche friend who wants to chat for 5 mins. I want to play at least decent full games that will keep me interested during my time on the train and bus or when I have time to kill and cannot access or dont feel like using my consoles or laptop.

Worgen:ehh the problem with phone and pad stuff is that its really hard to get past simple flash games, most of which you can play for free on a site like newgrounds or kongregate

This. The main problem with mobile gaming is that it's all basically flash-based games similar to those lame ones on Facebook.

On Android, there is even a real-time, twitch-based, cockpit view space simulation MMO, that is also available for Mac, Linux and Windows. And just about every other genre at one point deemed "impossible to port to or develop for mobile devices". In fact, there is not a single game genre that is not present and working very well on iOS/Android/Windows Mobile 7 devices. And all above-mentioned games play GREAT, without being hampered by control or screen issues.

You had better point me in the direction of these flash games of similar quality, for I will never have to purchase another game again ;-)

The people are making here are that the games the guy is referring to are the most popular games on the 'handheld'. Angry Birds, cut the rope etc.. are the games most downloaded and played. Why Get the IPod touch to try and play Street Fighter, and other 'hardcore games' when the PSP and Ds do it better? The NGP and 3DS are actual gaming systems, the Ipods and such just imitate them.

Andy Chalk:"It's really difficult to compete with an app store that has hundreds of thousands of applications and a wide range of options where the average price paid is around $1.20 and there are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of free applications that are really high quality. So I just don't think Sony's going to be able to compete with that."

OK!, that might be true, but Sony is not trying to compete with that, Sony is trying to open a new market, something people seem to overlook, i mean, come on!, how many 1.20 games you have to sell to reach a single game of the PSP, (leaving the NGP to the side)

i bet he is butt hurt because he will never be able to produce a game like... Metal Gear Ac!d or somethig like that.

"I think Nintendo will likely be competitive," he said. "Nintendo has great franchises and there are tens of millions of people who want to participate in those franchises, so that always helps... But the real question is the degree to which there's a third-party community."

third-party community!? hahaha, he cant possibly say that the third party community is not interested in the brand new shiny toy NINTENDO, the MEGA BUCKS CORPORATION is taking out of its shining arse, come ON, how stuckup can you get to even think people wont want a piece of the nintendo action????, hell, the only reason there are so many frikken apps out there for the android and Iphone is because they are washed down flash games that you can play on your phone, and everyone and its dog can make one of those (hell even a little kid made one)

quantity is not better than quality, hasnt he noticed that??, oh well, who cares what this wacko thinks, now i“m starting to think he is more scared than butthurt because people might realize that all his games are versions of other FREE games you can play on any website.

As a publisher of iPhone and Android games, it's fair to assume that Young is a little biased in this matter

a little?? i would say he is balantly blinded or obviously saying this things withouth really knowing what he is talking about, the Iphone/android plataform can never compete with the NGP or the 3DS because THEY ARE FOR DIFFERENT MARKETS!, its like saying that Valve“s Half Life Episode 3 will never succede in the PC because Zynga made 500 games this year for the PC market and they are all 1 buck each!

Jesus, this guy must be trolling, i cant believe he can be that stupid not to realize what he is saying, after all, the corporation that put portable gameing devices in the spotlight was Nintendo.

Look, the iPhone cannot compete with game quality for the NGP, 3DS, or even in some rare cases, original GameBoy. There are no buttons! Virtual joysticks don't work well, and a solitary touch screen can only get you so far. As an iPhone 4 owner, there are maybe 10 games actually of legitimate interest to a "gamer," and the majority of which aren't even as complex as certain mini-games peppered throughout mainstream RPGs. I mean FFS, Angry Birds is the "best game ever" on the device and it's based on a sort of catapult+physics base that 20 flash games came up with for the web in the mid 90's!

I remember hearing about how regular consoles were "doomed" when the net peaked. Why would people pay $200 for a console and then $60 for a game when someone can just play a flash game on a hundred different websites! And look what happened there. A computer is more versatile and more transportable (if you have a laptop) than a console and yet the PC gaming market is dying. Why? Because (and don't shoot me PC people) often times consoles do it better; make it easier. I don't need to go out and spend $300 (the cost of an entire console) on a graphics card every five minutes, etc. etc.

The only reason I personally wouldn't buy the NGP is because as an adult with a "real job" I don't want to carry around some additional device in my pocket, nor can I surreptitiously use it during meetings or presentations. On that front iPhone is king. The raw multifarious functionality outweighs its lacking hardware for true gaming, but that being said, you can't therefore discount the place for an NGP in the market. As long as it offers something significantly unique and well executed, there will be buyers. Period. Whether or not it breaks even or flourishes will be based on 3rd party development.

Nah, he is off base completely. People who play handheld games usually want dedicated hardware for it. It's like saying TV is dead because you can stream it to your smartphone, hardly the case at all. I think the NGP is going to have problems like the PSP did. But DOA, I think not. Gaming on your phone is something you do to kill time when your waiting for a meeting to start or something. A good handheld experience is different. Sometimes I sit on my bed and play my PSP or DS for hours on end. That new Dissidia game coming later this month on the PSP wouldn't be playable on a smartphone, simply because on screen controls are clunky at best.

Also, you can't compare companies dedicated making games for dedicated system to Joe Shmoe who built this phone app he sells for $1. I bought one program for my phone that I use all the time, The Handy Construction Calculator. It's a good tool. I also use my phone at work to listen to the radio and music. Another handy use of my smartphone. All but one of these are free, and while handy, not necessary.

You can say all you want, but just because people think it's a good idea to put angry birds on game consoles, doesn't mean that logic applies in reverse.

Edit: Sure the iPhone is more technically advanced than the PSP or DS, but systems are made to be dedicated to get a predetermined life span out of the. There is a new iPhone every six months. I bought a PSP years ago (PSP1000), but I can still play games the come out on it. I bought a Droid last February, and there have been games released that my Droid cannot play. When I purchased a PSP, a little while after it came out, I spent $200. An iPhone4 with a two year contract, $300. And a new one will be out next year by this time. Handheld gaming is dedicated, smartphones are not. New phones come out every few months, new systems every 5-6 years. Unless all the consumers are going to be running into large amounts of money, or prices on phones are going to drop significantly, I don't see handhelds having any problem at all. Notice how Nintendo and Sony are worried about each other, but not iPhone or Android phones. That pretty much says it all.

Ayjona:Good analysis/conclusion, Andy. Certainly not done for, but the conventional handhel market is in for the toughest ride yet. Especially since they vehemently refuse to implement support for mobile broadbands, and the prospect of online multiplayer is one of the major appeals of Android and iPhone.

gigastar:I dont want to go the rest of my portable gaming life playing adapted flash games where theres a risk of being interupted by some douche friend who wants to chat for 5 mins. I want to play at least decent full games that will keep me interested during my time on the train and bus or when I have time to kill and cannot access or dont feel like using my consoles or laptop.

Worgen:ehh the problem with phone and pad stuff is that its really hard to get past simple flash games, most of which you can play for free on a site like newgrounds or kongregate

This. The main problem with mobile gaming is that it's all basically flash-based games similar to those lame ones on Facebook.

Ok, then, let's do this ;)

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You had better point me in the direction of these flash games of similar quality, for I will never have to purchase another game again ;-)

You only get all of that because the current iPhone is a full generation ahead of the current portable consoles. Dont get me wrong, as a utility platform the iPhone is unmatched, but as a portable gaming platform, i laugh at it.

Im also very much aware that the handheld markets are pretty much stagnated as both platforms are from Japan and as such most developers for them dont feel that their games will do well across the pond. Right now the number of games id like to own for my PSP is none. This is because the only game that i do want (Monster Hunter Portable 3rd, likely coming to us as Monster Hunter Freedom 3) that stands a chance of coming out in Europe before the PSP2 isnt likely to get a release date prior to it.

The only real reason developers and publishers are moving to smart phones for gaming is to attempt to suck more cash from the ever growing ignorant horde of casual gamers that never heard of the N-Gage. Thats fine by me bacause i know enough to not fall into that pitfall.

You do not need a phone and immediately settle on the iPhone unless you're both lazy and have ridiculous amounts of money to throw around. The iPhone can set you back £600 in the UK. I recently bought a new 32Gb iPod Touch for £188. The £400 saving is substantial enough to overlook that it doesn't have 3G or make calls, and despite it having half the RAM I have yet to contend with any lag. As for the quality of apps and app store games, lets just say there is a lot to be desired, even if only light gaming works for you. Angry birds is hardly a revolution.

The 3DS and NGP are necessary to make proper and hardcore gaming available portably, while providing a powerful platform for development in other areas and multimedia / internet access. The iPhone covers the last two conditions well enough, but at the entry cost or awful and in America just abusively expensive plans (that no one seems to question, especially the frankly creepy dependency of AT&T and Verizon, the companies that both had a bid a privatizing the internet) doesn't provide these services reasonably.

If Sony let the NGP be open to Android, they are certainly in a stronger position, and if anyone really needs iOS, as long as the NGP isn't locked down, I'm sure you'd find a way of getting it.

The iPod Touch for me just fulfilled the necessities of being an impressive piece of hardware that was readily broken into and allowed me to play with homebrewing software on the device, and the screen is frankly a marvel of technology on the consumer market. That however cost me £188, not £600, and I didn't buy it to play Tiny Wings in 960 x 480 either...

Can someone at least acknowledge the HTC Desire?! A much more impressive and open device than the iPhone with a burgeoning app community thanks to android, and it's much much cheaper!

Ayjona:Good analysis/conclusion, Andy. Certainly not done for, but the conventional handhel market is in for the toughest ride yet. Especially since they vehemently refuse to implement support for mobile broadbands, and the prospect of online multiplayer is one of the major appeals of Android and iPhone.

gigastar:I dont want to go the rest of my portable gaming life playing adapted flash games where theres a risk of being interupted by some douche friend who wants to chat for 5 mins. I want to play at least decent full games that will keep me interested during my time on the train and bus or when I have time to kill and cannot access or dont feel like using my consoles or laptop.

Worgen:ehh the problem with phone and pad stuff is that its really hard to get past simple flash games, most of which you can play for free on a site like newgrounds or kongregate

This. The main problem with mobile gaming is that it's all basically flash-based games similar to those lame ones on Facebook.

On Android, there is even a real-time, twitch-based, cockpit view space simulation MMO, that is also available for Mac, Linux and Windows. And just about every other genre at one point deemed "impossible to port to or develop for mobile devices". In fact, there is not a single game genre that is not present and working very well on iOS/Android/Windows Mobile 7 devices. And all above-mentioned games play GREAT, without being hampered by control or screen issues.

You had better point me in the direction of these flash games of similar quality, for I will never have to purchase another game again ;-)

Seeing as almost every argument against Android, Windows Mobile and iOS as gaming platforms is either irrational ("Android games are ported flash games") or based on a lack of experience ("it is impossible to play beat em ups on a touch screen"), I'm starting to believe that the true fuel for the anti-touch screen gaming crowd is the age-old fanboy my console versus your console sentiment.

The Xperia Play will solve the problems of people who want to game on thier phones and use a dedicated game pad and buttons. As for all the games on iOS and Android being simple flash games, well Spectral Souls Infinity Blade and any number of emulators (PSX N64 etc) are all VERY far from being simple flash games.

As to the point of phones being a legitimate threat to more conventional gaming. It is. Sorry but it is and I think in the months/years to come it will be a bigger threat than most people want to think about. Gaming on your phone has evolved light years from the days of N-Gage and anyone who would make those comparisons now is simply spouting nonsense.

I also think the NGP IS pretty much DOA. However, Nintendo will find it's customers in hardcore gamers and children. Most adults that just want to game casually are more than happy to do so on their phones and pay a few bucks, if anything at all, for games rather than spend the added 250 dollars or more on a second device and upwards of 40 dollars or more per game.

Then you look at the versatility of your typical Android/iOS phone vs a handheld device. I know my phone (HTC Incredible), is just as, if not more versatile than my laptop. It does HD Video Recording, MP3s, video playback, internet browsing WITH Flash (Take that iOS), Email, GPS, and so on and so on depending on what apps I may be using at any given time.

Furthermore, this is only going to get worse as time goes on. The hardware being used right now for Android phones at least is moving forward at a crazy pace and in the not so distant future it will be able to go toe to toe with the likes of the NGP and the 3DS.

Bottom line is while handheld gaming in it's traditional form won't be dying off anytime soon it will surely feel the sting from the likes of people that simply choose to use their smartphone. I think at the end of the day handheld gaming on an actual handheld gaming device will become an extremely niche market made up of very hardcore gamers and children while the rest are content to save the extra money and simply use our phones.

almost all games suffer if you have to cover up part of the screen to make a touch interface

your fat finger will never be as precise as a thumbstick cursor, though stylus controls make up for that

---------

and I laugh whenever anyone claims 3rd parties matter to nintendo. They only care about their first party output, and pay lip service to 3rd parties when it suits them. It is sony and MS, who don't have 25 years of franchise backing them up, who need to cater to 3rd parties.

Ayjona:Good analysis/conclusion, Andy. Certainly not done for, but the conventional handhel market is in for the toughest ride yet. Especially since they vehemently refuse to implement support for mobile broadbands, and the prospect of online multiplayer is one of the major appeals of Android and iPhone.

gigastar:I dont want to go the rest of my portable gaming life playing adapted flash games where theres a risk of being interupted by some douche friend who wants to chat for 5 mins. I want to play at least decent full games that will keep me interested during my time on the train and bus or when I have time to kill and cannot access or dont feel like using my consoles or laptop.

Worgen:ehh the problem with phone and pad stuff is that its really hard to get past simple flash games, most of which you can play for free on a site like newgrounds or kongregate

This. The main problem with mobile gaming is that it's all basically flash-based games similar to those lame ones on Facebook.

On Android, there is even a real-time, twitch-based, cockpit view space simulation MMO, that is also available for Mac, Linux and Windows. And just about every other genre at one point deemed "impossible to port to or develop for mobile devices". In fact, there is not a single game genre that is not present and working very well on iOS/Android/Windows Mobile 7 devices. And all above-mentioned games play GREAT, without being hampered by control or screen issues.

You had better point me in the direction of these flash games of similar quality, for I will never have to purchase another game again ;-)

Seeing as almost every argument against Android, Windows Mobile and iOS as gaming platforms is either irrational ("Android games are ported flash games") or based on a lack of experience ("it is impossible to play beat em ups on a touch screen"), I'm starting to believe that the true fuel for the anti-touch screen gaming crowd is the age-old fanboy my console versus your console sentiment.

The lack of experience argument is a little amusing considering we already had a full generation of touchscreens with the DS. I have not found a single instance where my game experience was improved by covering up part of the screen to use imaginary controls that gave no tactile feedback whatsoever. Is it possible to play the types of games you are talking about without dedicated controls? Sure. Is it optimal to do so? Not in the least.

This isn't a console vs console issue. We're comparing an orange and an apple with an orange rind taped to it.

Scars Unseen:The lack of experience argument is a little amusing considering we already had a full generation of touchscreens with the DS. I have not found a single instance where my game experience was improved by covering up part of the screen to use imaginary controls that gave no tactile feedback whatsoever. Is it possible to play the types of games you are talking about without dedicated controls? Sure. Is it optimal to do so? Not in the least.

This isn't a console vs console issue. We're comparing an orange and an apple with an orange rind taped to it.

The Xperia Play will be coming soon and that will be a top end smart phone with a slide out controller in place of a keyboard. I think this phone is going to be a far more popular offering from Sony than the NGP.

As I said previously gaming via your smartphone is an immensely more attractive option to a good many people. Probably more than most people would believe. Now obviously here on a website dedicated to gaming you are going to see far more people embracing the purer options like the 3DS and the NGP. However, I fully expect that on-the-go gaming via devices like the 3DS or NGP are going to begin to boil down to more of a niche market of hardcore gamers and children.

Scars Unseen:I have not found a single instance where my game experience was improved by covering up part of the screen to use imaginary controls that gave no tactile feedback whatsoever. Is it possible to play the types of games you are talking about without dedicated controls? Sure. Is it optimal to do so? Not in the least.

This isn't a console vs console issue. We're comparing an orange and an apple with an orange rind taped to it.

No, I was not comparing at all. I was responding to the sentiment that mobile games are glorified flash games. The button discussion is all yers ;-)