SDHawk wrote:I would also point to Doug Baldwin's presser from today in which he said he had to learn to take a break in the offseason. He said he tried to push himself too hard to compete and that lead to him physically peaking early in the season and inviting injury.

I might have been skeptical if we were talking migraines. But a torn labrum is something that is difficult to fake and isn't an excuse that one would use to skip out on a few practices.

Well especially when the team itself said it was torn on the mri. So you cant really fake a tear.

Right, my comment was directed at the Vikings fan that came over to stir the pot by suggesting that this was all ploy by Harvin to get out of practices. I don't buy that crap for a second.

I am certain the FO did their homework. They vetted Harvin with Pete, Bevell, Rice, etc etc.

To me, it's clear that this is one of those "freak" injuries and suggestions that this is somehow a consequence of Percy's attitude towards practice is just ridiculous. No one is saying anything negative about Harvin, on the contrary, there have been no shortage of reports that Harvin is a workout warrior and is excited to be with the Hawks.

1. I didn't come to "stir the pot", but it's clear that many Seahawks fans here aren't aware of some of Percy's issues in the past. Maybe it will be a problem in Seattle, maybe not. I'm only adding my 2 cents after following his entire NFL career to this point very, very closely.

2. I never said Harvin was faking an injury (although I am skeptical if it is really that serious). I am suspicious that he chose this course of action. On day #1 of training camp. Against team doctors recommendations. After a long history in Minnesota of being a practice-skipper for every possible health issue.

I understand your view, but here in Merica, the only reporters who ask tough questions are Bob Costas and Jerry Grey, and they really are c**ts. (and midgets) Local reporters don't have to ask tough questions, because La Canfora and Schefter will just make up two opposite answers to all the tough questions that went unasked.

Every journalist should be prepared to ask tough questions.

I really couldn't give two hoots about how Tarvaris Jackson looked on day one, or how "exciting" it was to see James Carpenter back, or whether Robert Turbin's role will be (insert overly complicated X's and O's spiel to try and sound clever). I wanted to know what the hell was going on with Percy.

That press conference yesterday was a waste of time and Tom Pelissero - with as far as I'm aware zero connections to Seattle or the Seahawks - managed to get better quotes from Pete Carroll just hours later. Probably with a bit of probing.

A lot of the hand wringing of the last 24 hours would've been avoided had the answers Pelissero managed to get been drained yesterday.

1. I didn't come to "stir the pot", but it's clear that many Seahawks fans here aren't aware of some of Percy's issues in the past. Maybe it will be a problem in Seattle, maybe not. I'm only adding my 2 cents after following his entire NFL career to this point very, very closely.

2. I never said Harvin was faking an injury (although I am skeptical if it is really that serious). I am suspicious that he chose this course of action. On day #1 of training camp. Against team doctors recommendations. After a long history in Minnesota of being a practice-skipper for every possible health issue.[/quote]

Percy Harvin's history has been well documented on this site, we are all well aware of it.

I really can't understand the panic given nobody has enough information to come to an informed conclusion. If he misses a few practices big whoop as long as he gets 2-3 in and is able to play in Green Bay all this drama amounts to exactly nothing. Even then unless we are talking surgery it isn't like we don't have the exact same offensive personnel and likely better depth at our weaker spots (except backup TE) then last year without Percy. Plus a franchise quarterback going into his second year (the year NFL players make their largest jump almost always) .

Bigpumpkin wrote:Oh well....he's not the first athlete to be as fragile as glass. Can't say that we didn't see this coming...then again, some believe in a miracle change in behavior with a new team.

It would hardly be a "miracle" if a veteran wr went to a new team, a team as strong as Seattle and a team that is dedicated to not only winning but also to getting this wr the ball as often as possible, and suddenly the wr's interest in practice and preparation increases as a result of the new situation. Happens all the time.

SDHawk wrote:I would also point to Doug Baldwin's presser from today in which he said he had to learn to take a break in the offseason. He said he tried to push himself too hard to compete and that lead to him physically peaking early in the season and inviting injury.

I might have been skeptical if we were talking migraines. But a torn labrum is something that is difficult to fake and isn't an excuse that one would use to skip out on a few practices.

Well especially when the team itself said it was torn on the mri. So you cant really fake a tear.

Right, my comment was directed at the Vikings fan that came over to stir the pot by suggesting that this was all ploy by Harvin to get out of practices. I don't buy that crap for a second.

I am certain the FO did their homework. They vetted Harvin with Pete, Bevell, Rice, etc etc.

To me, it's clear that this is one of those "freak" injuries and suggestions that this is somehow a consequence of Percy's attitude towards practice is just ridiculous. No one is saying anything negative about Harvin, on the contrary, there have been no shortage of reports that Harvin is a workout warrior and is excited to be with the Hawks.

1. I didn't come to "stir the pot", but it's clear that many Seahawks fans here aren't aware of some of Percy's issues in the past. Maybe it will be a problem in Seattle, maybe not. I'm only adding my 2 cents after following his entire NFL career to this point very, very closely.

2. I never said Harvin was faking an injury (although I am skeptical if it is really that serious). I am suspicious that he chose this course of action. On day #1 of training camp. Against team doctors recommendations. After a long history in Minnesota of being a practice-skipper for every possible health issue.[/quote]

Thanks for the input AKV, of course we don't want to believe it but it did cross my mind as well. It's not like there isn't a track record and part of me even hopes that's the case for obvious reasons.

Thanks for the input though, I didn't read it as if you were trolling like many Niners with comments like "defenders will be targeting his hip and he will end up on IR". A big difference between your post and wishful thinking.

By the way, it's very refreshing to see a Vikings fan who doesn't seem to just hate us for obvious reasons. Welcome to the board. Stick around, hopefully you will be able to enjoy Harvin having a great year along with the rest of us.

Count me in the concerned, but not panicking group. Obviously it would be great (at least short term) if he doesn't need surgery. It wouldn't even bother me if he didn't see a single snap during preseason. I'm prepared to see Harvin on the regular season PUP list. As long he's on the active squad sometime between Week 7 and 11 then I'll be happy. When we acquired Harvin most people were describing it as "icing on the cake". We'll be in the playoffs with or without him in the regular season. As long as we have him for the end of the regular season and the playoffs I'll be content.

Otherwise, it's season-ending surgery and IR. That's the only scenario that I would be really upset with. But, we won't know much more until Tuesday at the earliest so I'm going to enjoy the weekend and relax. With that said, if they say on Tuesday or thereafter that surgery is the way to go and it will be season-ending, then it'll be chill-pill time. Go Hawks!

I have read on this thread that there is reason to believe that our team medical staff believe he can rehab and play through this injury and that the second opinion is to back up that? Where is this info coming from? It would be something if he could at least back up Tate and Baldwin in limited fashion.

also worth noting that I've yet to see a single post or reply on any thread or article about this from a vikes fan that doesn't believe Harvin suits up game 1. I hope they are correct.

In case anybody didn't understand how the rule read in regards to the PUP list, here ya go. Even though this article by Sando is in regards to Crabtree, it applies to Harvin as well.

DISCLAIMER:

The trash talking that I do occasionally this week is strictly for gamesmanship between opposing fanbases as a result of our upcoming matchup this week on SNF. It by no means should be taken personally.

The concerning thing is the number of media outlets reporting that the Seahawks docs say he can play. Harvin's people would never leak that, so there's only one way that can be leaked - by Seahawks folks. They want the public pressure on him to play. They want him feeling like everyone expects him to play. If the Seahawks thought he shouldn't play, and they needed to "protect their investment," every leak would be "Seahawks doctors adamant that Harvin needs surgery and risks worsening injury/delaying recovery by practicing/playing."

LawHawk wrote:The concerning thing is the number of media outlets reporting that the Seahawks docs say he can play. Harvin's people would never leak that, so there's only one way that can be leaked - by Seahawks folks. They want the public pressure on him to play. They want him feeling like everyone expects him to play. If the Seahawks thought he shouldn't play, and they needed to "protect their investment," every leak would be "Seahawks doctors adamant that Harvin needs surgery and risks worsening injury/delaying recovery by practicing/playing."

LawHawk wrote:The concerning thing is the number of media outlets reporting that the Seahawks docs say he can play. Harvin's people would never leak that, so there's only one way that can be leaked - by Seahawks folks. They want the public pressure on him to play. They want him feeling like everyone expects him to play. If the Seahawks thought he shouldn't play, and they needed to "protect their investment," every leak would be "Seahawks doctors adamant that Harvin needs surgery and risks worsening injury/delaying recovery by practicing/playing."

Unless...

That's exactly what they WANT you to think...

Have you been engaging in battles of wit with Sicilians again?

Talent can get you to the playoffs.It takes character to win when you get there.SUPER BOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS

oasis wrote:Dunno if this was posted before on this thread, but Peter King says Kam Chancellor played through a similar injury. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5197/percy-harvinI don't know about you guys but that doesn't sound promising to me. Kam seemed pretty hampered.

Although on the other side, playing SS can be more taxing than a receiver who can go in and out of rotation.

Kam seemed fine to me...

hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??

oasis wrote:Dunno if this was posted before on this thread, but Peter King says Kam Chancellor played through a similar injury. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5197/percy-harvinI don't know about you guys but that doesn't sound promising to me. Kam seemed pretty hampered.

Although on the other side, playing SS can be more taxing than a receiver who can go in and out of rotation.

Kam seemed fine to me...

Kam himself said it DID affect his play. It would affect Percy even more.

LawHawk wrote:The concerning thing is the number of media outlets reporting that the Seahawks docs say he can play. Harvin's people would never leak that, so there's only one way that can be leaked - by Seahawks folks. They want the public pressure on him to play. They want him feeling like everyone expects him to play. If the Seahawks thought he shouldn't play, and they needed to "protect their investment," every leak would be "Seahawks doctors adamant that Harvin needs surgery and risks worsening injury/delaying recovery by practicing/playing."

Unless...

That's exactly what they WANT you to think...

Have you been engaging in battles of wit with Sicilians again?

HA! You must have suspected I would know about Percy's injury, so I can clearly not choose the labrum in front of me.

Largent80 wrote:What I do not understand is why it will take almost a full week to get this second opinion.

Evidently money can NOT speed up procedure.

Because he is seeing the top doctor in this field in NY. Star Athletes arent the only one with money when dealing with the top expert. They cant just push the other rich guys out of there appointment slots so easily. They found out Wed in Seattle, and had a booked appointment with the guy for 5 days later. Thats still pretty impressive.

hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??

oasis wrote:Dunno if this was posted before on this thread, but Peter King says Kam Chancellor played through a similar injury. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5197/percy-harvinI don't know about you guys but that doesn't sound promising to me. Kam seemed pretty hampered.

Although on the other side, playing SS can be more taxing than a receiver who can go in and out of rotation.

Kam seemed fine to me...

Pete Carroll in his presser also mentioned that Kam had something similar last year.

When you say " they found out" are you referring to the Hawks or are you referring to Harvin and his people? Who asked for the second opinion and just as importantly what exactly was the first opinion?

There is a lot we don't know here. What we do know is that some one knew something BEfore Wednesday because by league rule a player can't be placed on PUP if he has practiced at all OR if it is a non football related injury.

This suggests what ever injury Harvin has came with him from Minnesota and should have been vetted before now.

brimsalabim wrote:When you say " they found out" are you referring to the Hawks or are you referring to Harvin and his people? Who asked for the second opinion and just as importantly what exactly was the first opinion?

There is a lot we don't know here. What we do know is that some one knew something BEfore Wednesday because by league rule a player can't be placed on PUP if he has practiced at all OR if it is a non football related injury.

This suggests what ever injury Harvin has came with him from Minnesota and should have been vetted before now.

Or that all this is precautionary.

They cant practice in Training camp to be placed on pup. Which started on Thursday. The team had physicals on Wed and Harvin complained of pain in his hip which then was MRI'd at the facility that Wed. He was placed on the PUP as a result of the findings. From what sources are saying, the team did not suggest surgery. Its not known who requested the second opinion.

Regardless, he was placed on the PUP officially as of thursday morning before the first team practice. So the ailment wasnt necessarily known prior.

hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??

Pretty sure Percy is up to his usual bullshit. I don't really care, so long as he plays hard when he does play, and doesn't serve as a distraction to the rest of the team.

Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

Seaswab wrote:Did kam have any procedure done to fix his hip or did it just heal on its own?

Kam didn't have a hip issue.

Sorry sir, but you are incorrect. Kam did have a hip issue....something similar to Harvin just last season and played through it. Pete Carroll has said so in a few different interviews. I'll go with Pete.

Hasselbeck wrote:Matt Flynn should be our starter. Wilson is nothing more than a backup and will never amount to anything in this league.

So you are going with the ailment wasn't known by anyone until the team physical picked it up? The team might not have been aware but Harvin had to have been aware. How did he have a football related injury before camp? I have read that the hip injury being described is either the result of an impact or of an arthritic hip. when did he last have a football related impact? I hope the guy wants to play football.

he apparently tweaked it working out on his own about 8-10 days ago. Sounds like it was sore but he didn't think it was a big deal.

Then when camp was about to start and it was still sore he probably mentioned it to the team; and they are very quick and cautious b ecuase they don't want him to go out and start practicing because that keeps him from being able to go on pre-season PUP.

My guess is it's minor and he will play through it, with the best case scenario being it's a minor enough issue that it's healed up pretty good by week 2.

Hip injuries can be very tricky. Sometimes they heal on their own and the doctors only issue crutches to lessen the stress. Othertimes, it's a surgery that requires a long recover... if they ever fully recover. Surely it's not that or he woulda already had surgery.

Jackson's career ended because of a dislocated hip, similar to what Ravens TE Dennis Pitta just suffered yesterday. Harvin's injury is much less severe, though it could potentially become more serious if not treated correctly. I don't blame Harvin for wanting to be careful.

No one has to explain his situation to Bryan Walters, a former option quarterback at Kirkland’s Juanita High School who is trying to make it with the Seahawks as a wide receiver. Walters is smart enough to know that he needs to make the most of any and every opportunity that comes his way.

And that’s exactly what he did today, when Walters produced first downs on three of his five receptions.

“Got to capitalize on the opportunities, especially when you’re in a spot like me,” Walters said.

And that spot would be playing behind starters Sidney Rice and Golden Tate, as well as slot receiver Doug Baldwin, at a position where the team has 12 receivers when only five or six will be carried on the 53-man roster with another one or two being signed to the practice squad.

Shadowhawk wrote:Jackson's career ended because of a dislocated hip, similar to what Ravens TE Dennis Pitta just suffered yesterday. Harvin's injury is much less severe, though it could potentially become more serious if not treated correctly. I don't blame Harvin for wanting to be careful.

Jackon's injury was more freakish than that. He actually ripped the joint out of his hip which cut off the blood supply to the bone and caused Avascular necrosis. He had to get his hip replaced.

Shadowhawk wrote:Jackson's career ended because of a dislocated hip, similar to what Ravens TE Dennis Pitta just suffered yesterday. Harvin's injury is much less severe, though it could potentially become more serious if not treated correctly. I don't blame Harvin for wanting to be careful.

Jackon's injury was more freakish than that. He actually ripped the joint out of his hip which cut off the blood supply to the bone and caused Avascular necrosis. He had to get his hip replaced.

That injury was actually a testament to how freakishly strong Bo Jackson actually was. They said anyone else would have just been tackled, but Bo's other leg was so strong and the defender had such a good grip on his foot, that the weakest point was actually Bo's hip socket.

Shadowhawk wrote:Jackson's career ended because of a dislocated hip, similar to what Ravens TE Dennis Pitta just suffered yesterday. Harvin's injury is much less severe, though it could potentially become more serious if not treated correctly. I don't blame Harvin for wanting to be careful.

Jackon's injury was more freakish than that. He actually ripped the joint out of his hip which cut off the blood supply to the bone and caused Avascular necrosis. He had to get his hip replaced.

That injury was actually a testament to how freakishly strong Bo Jackson actually was. They said anyone else would have just been tackled, but Bo's other leg was so strong and the defender had such a good grip on his foot, that the weakest point was actually Bo's hip socket.

So gross. I get the willies just thinking about it...

I think we saw the same thing on 30 for 30. For those interested in just how crazy the Bo injury was go to the 1 hour mark:

I recall a story where Bo went bow fishing with one of the Milwaukee Brewer pitchers (no, not Catfish Hunter, lol). Can't recall the guy's name but he said Bo shot 11 times and shot 11 fish.

I'd also heard that the Olympic archery team wanted Bo on the team but he sorta' had some other stuff going on.

Whether or not he was the greatest athlete of our time is debatable, but he was definitely my favorite...even when wearing that *silver and black.

*The Bo running over the Boz tale was incredibly unfair to the Boz and severely blown out of proportion. In that situation, I don't believe there's a man alive that would have prevented Jackson from scoring on that play. Boz just happened to be in the wrong spot at the wrong time. It was either whiff...or get ran over.

But on topic: I am counting the hrs now. There has been rumor that Harvin "might be playing games" (!?). With the doctor /patient privacy stuff, if he is, how will we know? I believe we can win it all without Harvin...but, IMO, winning it all with him is more likely.