CHARLOTTE, N.C. — Despite hours of impassioned opposition in community testimony, city council members in Charlotte, North Carolina voted Monday night to approve a move that would permit men who identify as women and vice versa to use the restroom that correlates with their “gender identity.”

Over 21,000 area residents had signed a petition in opposition of the proposed expansion of the city’s non-discrimination ordinance, and scores signed up to provide testimony about why city council should reject the proposal.

Pastors, community leaders and others part of a coalition opposed to the changes known as “Don’t Do It Charlotte” also rallied outside prior the meeting.

Council members heard three hours of testimony from an estimated 140 area residents before voting on the matter, with many Christians coming forth to declare Scripture and explain why restroom usage rules should not be changed in Charlotte.

“By what standards are you considering this ordinance tonight? God’s word or man’s flawed reasoning? Will we be like Adam and Eve in the garden and decide morality for ourselves, or will we obey God?” asked Sean Brinza. “Psalm 2 says, “Be wise, you kings. Be instructed, you judges of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear and rejoice with trembling.’ … I plead with you to repent and turn to Jesus.”

“We as the faith community know and understand well our duty to to love our LGBT neighbors, and we will continue to do our best—flawed as it may be—to show kindness to them,” said Mark Metzger. “However, it will always be with tough love that speaks the truth that the Bible clearly condemns the LGBT lifestyle.”

“Tough love means speaking the inconvenient truth that we don’t get to be who we want to be. We must be who God made us to be,” he declared. “It is God’s word that warns us that our hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked, and that following our heart is dangerous and destructive.”

Resident Bethany Chandler made similar comments as she presented a direct appeal to the transgenders present to find freedom from sin in Christ.

“I know your hearts are filled with turmoil, friends, but peace will never be found by pursuing your heart,” she said. “True freedom is only found in surrender to Jesus. It’s the most beautiful paradox. I urge you, find peace in Him and His forgiveness. Jesus was nailed to a cross to offer you this freedom. Please take it, friends.”

However, despite hours of testimony largely in opposition of the proposal, the council voted 7-4 to expand the city’s non-discrimination ordinance to add provisions for homosexuals and those who identify as the opposite sex.

Council members Al Austin, John Autry, Patsy Kinsey, Julie Eiselt, James Mitchell, LaWana Mayfield and Mayor Pro Tem Lyles voted in favor of the ordinance. Council members Ed Driggs, Claire Fallon, Greg Phipps, and Kenny Smith voted against the measure.

“I’m pleased that Charlotte has sent a signal that we will treat people with dignity and respect, even when we disagree,” Charlotte Mayor Jennifer Roberts commented following the vote.

However, North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory has warned that state legislators will likely move to overturn the law.

“It is not only the citizens of Charlotte that will be impacted by changing basic restroom and locker room norms but also citizens from across our state and nation who visit and work in Charlotte,” he said in an email on Sunday. “[T]his action of allowing a person with male anatomy, for example, to use a female restroom or locker room will most likely cause immediate state legislative intervention which I would support as governor.”

House Speaker Tim Moore vowed to do just that on Tuesday.

“The Charlotte City Council has gone against all common sense and has created a major public safety issue by opening all bathrooms and changing rooms to the general public,” he told the Charlotte Observer. “This ordinance is impossible to regulate as intended, and creates undue regulatory burdens on private businesses. I join my conservative colleagues and Gov. McCrory in exploring legislative intervention.”

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Emmanuel

Seattle did the same and some lowlife perv was caught changing in the girls locker room and he used their law to justify his perversion. I will not be traveling to Charlotte ever.

Guest

The ‘lowlife perv’ was someone on the pro-discrimination side of the issue trying to make a point. He didn’t identify as transgender, quite loudly doing so from the reports, and was escorted to as private changing area.

He is an example of the hate coming from the anti- side of this issue.

Emmanuel

You think we hate the transgender? Nope, the opposite. I let everyone be whatever they want to be. The point here is that there are folks out there that will abuse this law for their own pleasure gain. Why not make an open bathroom for everyone? Still have the men and women’s and then add a third. Discrimination? no, it’s providing everyone with a bathroom that makes everyone feel good. Can’t compare this to drinking faucets or buses, no one civil rights are being violated because of skin color or culture.

Guest

And as this current example shows abuses can be dealt even with the law point of fact the law in Washington is 10 years old the only new thing is the rabble rousing being done by the publishing of rules how it will be handled generally.

All sexes have been sharing restrooms and locker rooms with people of different sexual orientations and gender identities all their lives. Now it is just about what a person does and not about the group they belong to, like the story of the Samaritan.

afchief

Why even take the chance to have an 8 year old girl be exposed to a pervert or worse raped. The repercussions can last a lifetime.

Enough with the madness!!!

Guest

Both things that can happen without these laws. Christians don’t live their lives in fear

afchief

The chances are greater allowing perverts into opposite sex bathrooms.

Enough with the insanity!!!

Guest

Perverts aren’t allowed. Again the vast majority of Trans people look like their identified gender, they’d be a bigger disruption in the wrong gender restroom.

afchief

Deviancy, sodomy and buggery are no more a “lifestyle choice” than anorexia and bulimia are “diet and exercise plans”.

Are we going to put a person who is born a male and thinks he is a female in with female prisoners?

The “transgendered” lie is a response to the recognition that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. Therefore, to normalize it, the homosexuals try to insist that heterosexuality is also a choice, which is a lie. The human species reproduces heterosexually, period. Our biology is our destiny, at least in that regard. No amount of lies and word games can change reality.

Guest

You are living in a fantasy – transgender has existed as long as mankind, God designed us with the possibility of it. He could have totally separated the sexual dimorphic genetic information as He did in other animals – He chose not to do so.

AIS exists just as God designed it and so does transgenderism.

afchief

I’ll use this article (truth) again!!!

November 7, 2015
There Is No Such Thing as ‘Transgendered’
By Tom Trinko

Conservatives win when people have the truth, because modern liberal causes are always built on lies.

When conservatives buy into the lie, we lose. For example, gay marriage is culturally accepted, in part, because for 30 years conservatives have been unwilling, out of misplaced sympathy, to correctly describe the gay lifestyle.

Sexually active gays are essentially never monogamous, die young due to diseases they get from their promiscuous lifestyle, are depressed and despondent, are likely to use drugs, and are fixated on sex, not love. Being a sexually active gay is worse for one’s health than being a smoker.

Yet conservatives generally haven’t objected to the lie that gays are just like heterosexuals. But once one agrees to that, it’s really hard to explain to low-information voters why gays don’t make great parents and shouldn’t be allowed to marry. On the other hand, conservatives have been constantly pointing out the lies of the climate alarmists, and as a result, the average American couldn’t care less about climate change. Given the truth, the vast majority of people will pick the conservative position most of the time.

The latest round in liberals’ assault on Judeo-Christian morality is their demented desire to normalize insanity – namely that one’s sex is merely a matter of what one wants it to be. As usual, their position is based on the totally false claim that a person’s sex is not biological, but psychological.

Christians, whom liberals constantly label as “anti-science,” have no problem realizing that DNA defines our biological identity but not who we are. Yet modern liberals reject settled science and claim that someone with a woman’s DNA can really be biologically male.

The reality is that the only time a man is trapped in a woman’s body is before he’s born. Similarly, a man can no more will himself to be a woman than he can will himself to be Napoleon – a side-effect of this thing called reality.

Now, men and women can suffer from gender identity confusion, but while we should strive to help those who think they’re something they’re not, the right way to do so is not to enable their delusions. If an Elvis impersonator suddenly declared that he was Elvis, no sane person would think that the loving response would be to start calling him The King.

Showing true love to people who identify as transgendered is helping them love who they really are, not telling them that they have to change because they’re not good as they are.

Sadly, there are signs that some conservatives are buying into the liberals’ false narrative. You might have seen conservative sites that said that the Houston “anti-discrimination” law didn’t pass. This is a bit of terminology that buys into the transgender lie. Letting biological men who simply say they think they’re women into women’s restrooms is not anti-discrimination; it’s pro-discrimination against women. Does the phrase “sexual harassment” ring a bell?

Similarly, conservatives use the term LGBT as though it were a valid description of biological diversity rather than a purely psychological construct, developed by psychiatrists who tend to self-identify as members of the LGBT “community.”

Like all other groups, the “transgendered” are viewed by liberals in terms of how they can be used to further the expansion of liberal power and control. If liberals really cared about the “transgendered,” they’d be helping those suffering from gender identity confusion accept who they truly are. Instead, liberals support the “transgender” cause because it’s a direct repudiation of the Judeo-Christian view that men are not gods and that men and women have a biological identity they can’t change. Additionally, by supporting the “transgender” cause, liberals attack the Judeo-Christian view that sex is about more than recreation and is intended to be between a man and a woman.

Some conservatives feel bad about condemning the “transgender” lifestyle because they think that’s not compassionate. That’s a result of another liberal lie: the lie that saying that a person’s lifestyle isn’t good for him is an attack on the person. Liberals clearly don’t believe that, since they have no problem attacking smokers’ and overweight people’s lifestyles. However, it’s a convenient bit of intellectual octopus ink to muddy the waters and deflect the train of thought of people who aren’t very analytical.

The reality is that it’s not cruel or unloving to point out the reality of the “transgendered” any more than it’s uncaring to describe the disaster that is the gay lifestyle. What kind person would purposely lie to a smoker about the health consequences of smoking? Yet if we lie about what being “transgendered” or gay really means, we’re lying to people confused about their sexuality about the consequences of their choices.

Even worse, by buying into the “transgender” lie, we’re directly supporting discrimination against sane people. When a man wants to be in a women’s locker room because he claims he thinks he’s a woman, one of two things is true:

• He’s lying, because he’s a pervert who’s pretending. This may be more common among teens than one might think, since saying one identifies as a woman does not require one to dress or act like a woman, much less mutilate oneself.

In the former case, supporting the “transgender” cause is synonymous with supporting sexual harassment. It’s amazing that the same women who decry “micro-aggressions” by men and who say that a woman can decide days after having sex with a man that she was raped believe that making a teenage girl shower with a boy is just fine.

In the latter case, allowing a testosterone-powered boy to compete with women in sports is unfair to women. Additionally, many young girls will be emotionally disturbed by the fact that even though this guy claims to be a gal, it’s visually obvious that he isn’t when he looks at them in the shower.

While liberals claim to worship at the altar of the nonexistent “privacy” clause found in the penumbra of the emanations of the Constitution, in this context, they appear to believe that young women have no right to privacy at all – unless, of course, they want to kill their unborn daughters.

Once one strips away the liberal lies, the reality is that to properly live the love and compassion that comes so naturally to most Americans, one should not follow unscientific and disproven liberal dogma that one can changes one’s sex merely by willing it. Rather, one should help people suffering from delusions about what they are to become comfortable with reality.

Once we get voters in general to realize that just as the most loving thing to do for a smoker is tell him that smoking is bad, the most loving thing to do for the “transgendered” is to point out that they can never become the other sex and that they are wonderful just the way they are. Then we’ll be able to block liberals’ attempts to force acceptance of the “transgendered” on Americans.

Russ, although this might be emotionally satisfying to read, it just shows it is about them and not facts.

The clearest stand out is Tom talking about ‘woman’s DNA’. There is no such thing, every single one of us, males included, have all the chromosomes a woman does. There is only one chromosome that is sex exclusive, the Y chromosome and it only takes one gene – named SRY – there to create a male appearance externally and neurologically. There are people with no Y chromosome that have a SRY similar gene and are male, as I mentioned there are those with a Y chromosome that are resistant to the effects of SRY and develop as the rest of the genes default – with feminine characteristics.

I know this is of no interest to you but whether you like it or not the world God designed has many other possibilities other than the two you would like to be the only choices.

afchief

Ahhh yes, more proof that truth is the enemy of liberals and homos!!! Every time a website uses the term “transgendered” or “gay marriage”, it is buying into premises based on delusion. It legitimizes perversion of the natural order and natural law and gives it a place in the culture. Thirty years ago, the idea of gays getting married was laughable on its face. Even 10 years ago, it was a dubious proposition. Honoring psychically damaged and confused men who like to dress up as women and humoring them by referring to them as “she” and “her” even 5 years ago and calling them heroes would likewise have been unthinkable. But, here we are.

And yet we are to believe the same culture that has enabled these perversions to become not just legitimized but protected by the imprimatur of the State will somehow draw a line and go no further into polygamy, incest, lowered age of consent, and all the rest of it that has befallen other great cultures in the history of the world.

We are Rome in 400 AD and the return of Christ is VERY soon!!!

Guest

So when your emotional ‘proof’ fails you go on a rant. You are going to believe what ever you want Russ, and I honestly don’t care what you belief – your sins are between you and God.

afchief

Hmmmmm………homos claim that they were born that way and nothing can be done to change them. Any attempt to argue otherwise is treated as blasphemy.

On the other hand, transgender individuals claim that they were not born with the correct gender and that every effort should be made to correct this cruel twist of fate.

What you see in both arguments is the absolute failure of experimentation against reality.

Maybe the simple explanation is that they have a mental disorder! Yes, the truth is ALWAYS the enemy of liberals and homos!!!!!

Guest

You’ve already established you have no understanding of the biology involved in these issues, now you punctuate that fact.

Oh well.

afchief

Yes, more proof that truth is the enemy of liberals and homos!!!

Guest

What it ‘proves’ is you just want the answer you want because of emotions, not reason. That makes discussion with you both impossible and pointless.

afchief

Let’s make it really simple for the mentally challenged;

New sign for bathrooms. “Balls” and “No Balls”.

LOL!!!

Guest

So castrated men would be using restrooms with women? And you think that would be funny?

afchief

Ok! Let’s make it more simple for the mentally challenged!!!

New sign for bathrooms; “Prostates” and “uterus”

LOL!!!

Guest

Yes, you laughing at those without either is exactly what I’ve come to expect.

afchief

LOL!!!! Men pretending to be women and women pretending to be men are pathetic. But those who would force the rest us to pretend with them are criminal.

I refuse!!! And ALWAYS WILL!!!!

Bob Johnson

Nor does he show any humanity.

Jolanda Tiellemans

Oh surprise, a homophobe.

Angel Jabbins

God never designed people to be transgendered. The bible says he created us male and female and He said the two should be joined together and the family unit was created. You are believing in a God of your own making…one you can be comfortable with, but he is not the God who made mankind.

Guest

what I know is you don’t know what God’s entire design is, neither you nor I were there when he laid the foundations of the world.

I do know there is no male or female, marry or marriage in the next world where Christians walk even today. Fretting about this is like worrying about two fibered cloth.

You don’t think you should be transgender then don’t be, problem solved.

Angel Jabbins

There is no fretting. It is all about believing and following what God has ordained for mankind on this earth.
And we DO know what God’s design is. He laid it all out in the Bible. He created us male and female and said that a man should leave his mother and father and be joined to his wife and the two should become one. That was His design from the very beginning. And it is also very evident from the way men and women compliment each other and are made to fit together like hand in glove….by divine design. As evident as the nose on one’s face, even if we didn’t have the Bible to inform us. But we do have it and God gave us His commandments…not suggestions… for how we are to live. He created the genders and he only created two: male and female and they are made for each other.

Just because we will neither marry or be given in marriage in heaven does not mean we are not bound by what God ordained for us in this life as He laid it out in the Bible.

Will we be genderless in heaven? Matthew 22:30 speaks of people after the resurrection not participating in marriage–they become “like the angels.” However, this does not mean people are genderless. The masculine, not neuter, pronoun is used many times to describe angels (and HE was like…HIS appearance was like, etc.). So there is no real indication that the angels are genderless beings.

Although it is not explicitly taught in the Bible, it seems most likely that people retain their gender after death. Our genders are a part of who we are. Gender is more than physical–it is part of our very nature and part of the way we relate to God. Therefore, it seems that gender will be perfected and glorified in eternity. It is also noteworthy that Jesus retained His gender after His death and resurrection.

Yes, the institution of marriage will be done away with in heaven because, as the Church (all true Christians), we are the bride of Christ. Marriage, the model relationship between a man and a woman in this life, is a picture of Christ and the church. The church is the bride and Christ is the groom (Ephesians 5:25-32) We, the Church, will be united in Him for eternity and there will be no need of the kind of marriage we knew on earth. We will have something much better….spiritual union with Christ our Savior.

Guest

I am interested how you make so many assumptions about God and His plan beyond what we were told.

I know God didn’t intend for all men to be with women, Jesus explained that. I know that there is no male or female for those that walk in the next world, those in the body of Christ. And this is punctuated by Jesus telling us there will be no marry and marriage in the next world, we will all be as the angels in heaven, i.e. the same which makes sexes meaningless.

Marriage is a thing if this world, and as all things only of this world irrelevant to those that walk in the next. Yes it was said men and women of the church today will be as the bride of Christ, or as the angels in heaven.

Will we have genders? I don’t know – there is no gender quality unique to a particular sex in this world let alone the next so I don’t think it’s anything to fret about and doesn’t change our commitment to what we as Christians are commanded to do – love and forgive.

But you do as you think you were instructed and I will as I – these ‘of this world’ differences are no more important than what meats to eat or what holidays to celebrate. We will all eat and celebrate the same in the next world regardless for no ones understanding is perfect or need be to accept the Spirit and God’s undeserved gift of Grace.

Angel Jabbins

I am not making assumptions beyond what ‘we are told’. You are the one making assumptions because you not thinking biblically or do not take the bible seriously in what it teaches. God’s word is perfectly clear on these matters. Yes, certainly not all men are not intended to marry, but that does not mean gender is not important. Paul chose not to marry to devote himself to the work God gave him to do. (He still expressed his maleness in other ways though he did not marry.) Singleness is not a sin. But men having sex with men, women having sex with women is a sin.
Jesus never said gender does not matter. He was Himself the Creator who made us male and female. Gender was His idea and He called it ‘good’. Gender roles in this life are important for the nurturing and raising of children. They need both a mother and a father…it was God’s design from the start.

Yes, there will be male and female in Heaven. We will still retain our physical genders. However, there will not be procreation, nor will we be married to our spouses anymore. We understand this because of the resurrection of Christ.

“He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything,” (Colossians 1:18).

We see from this verse that Jesus is the “firstborn from the dead.” This means He is the first one to be raised from the dead in a glorified, resurrected body. This is explained in the following verses.

“So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body,” (1 Cor. 15:42-44).

So, we can conclude that we will follow in our resurrected bodies in the same way Jesus rose with His. We see that He retained His crucifixion wounds AND His gender.

“After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, ‘Peace be with you.’ 27 Then He said to Thomas, ‘Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing,'” (John 20:26-27).

It was Jesus who appeared to Thomas. Jesus is a MAN, and Thomas recognized Him. Therefore, Jesus retained His gender after His resurrection. Furthermore, Jesus retained His crucifixion wounds that further demonstrated He retained His physical characteristics.

So, we conclude that we will retain our gender when we are resurrected in our new glorified bodies and go to Heaven. But, we will not be married nor will we have any need of procreation.

Yes, the Bible says . . .

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus,” (Galatians 3:28).

But, this verse is not saying that there will not be male and female genders in Heaven. It is saying that “in Christ” there is neither male nor female. “In Christ” designates representation and salvation. Gal. 3:28 is saying that when it comes to salvation, gender does not matter. In addition, the phrase, “in Christ,” designates a doctrine known as federal headship where the male represents the descendants. This is why we have verses such as . . .

“for as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive,” (1 Corinthians 15:22).

“In Adam” and “in Christ” are terms of representation. Adam represented all humanity, and Christ represented His people.

You misunderstand what the Bible says and your conclusions are therefore erroneous.

Guest

I I see you are the one misinterpreting.

Adam represents Adam, we know all were never supposed to be like Adam per God in His talk about eunuchs. We know that all in the body Christ there is no male or female, it isn’t just about salvation, several of the saints in the Valentine history were martyred because they were marrying people between classes justified by the same passage.

As such people marry with God’s blessing regardless of male or female just fine, and the marital bed is undefiled.

And if there is no marry or marriage in the next world and all are as the Angels we are either are all the same sex or sexless semantic difference. We will all be as siblings.

And since there is no gender quality unique to any sex in a world without marriage or marry that again is s difference that is no difference at all.

You are of course free to disagree but since marriage is an ‘of this world only’ issue I am glad to let you have your opinion, it has nothing to do with our Christian mandate to love and forgive my brother doesn’t eat pork or shrimp but that will neither get him salvation or deny it to him and I love him regardless. I’ll love the people I can and you will yours and there should be enough love to go around.

Angel Jabbins

This isn’t a shrimp or pork eating issue at all. It is a CORE issue since homosexuality is condemned many times in the Bible. You are the one misrepresenting the truth….twisting scriptures to make them mean something that was never intended.

Leviticus 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”1

Leviticus 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them.”

Romans 1:26-28, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”

So, homosexuality is not a minor issue as you falsely believe but clearly condemned in the Bible.

And, homosexuality has a heavy judgment administered by God Himself upon those who commit it and support it.

“For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error,” (Romans 1:26-27).

As a result of being “given over,” they can no longer see the error of what they are doing, will not seek forgiveness, and will not repent. They will then die in their sins and face God’s righteous condemnation. We, as Christians, should not want this judgment to fall upon anyone.
Because you see no problem with it, I have reason to doubt your claim to salvation. You certainly do not give much weight to what the bible teaches. And, you are deceived about what real love is. Love means telling someone the truth (even when it hurts) so he can understand he is in sin, seek repentance, receive the Savior , be forgiven, and inherit eternal life.

Guest

There are not ‘core’ issues to the Old Covenant, we were told by Moses, Jesus and James, for those under it not keeping even the tiniest part is the same as not keeping it all. Fortunately the old Law is passed, Christians are under the New. And there are precious few mentions of homosexual behavior in the Bible.

There is only one instance where a specific people are punished that is about same sex behavior. all the other mentions are in situations where heterosexual behavior is just as wrong.

1 Corinthians is talking about all the exceptions to marital fidelity the Romans had, and since there was no one term in Greek that clearly covered them all Paul listed them, prostitutes – male and female, adultery, and male adultery. I completely agree that adultery goes against our mandate to love God, others and ourselves but that’s what it refers to we see that in Timothy where the old 10 commandments are reconstructed under the New Covenant and again both female and male adultery are mentioned together.

Romans you make the same mistake and leave out the reason this group of people were ‘turned over’ to passions against their natures:

Because, knowing God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but fell into folly in their thoughts, and their heart without understanding was darkened: professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into [the] likeness of an image of corruptible man and of birds and quadrupeds and reptiles. Wherefore God gave them up [also] in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into falsehood, and honoured and served the creature more than him who had created [it], who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them up…

And this is like a guard giving up his prisoner, i.e. those so treated had no choice.

This was a condemnation of lust and polysexual excesses as many of the other popular egyptian- and greek-origin ‘new age’ religions practiced. Married couples don’t lust for one another, it has nothing to do with married Christian couples.

You are confusing the why they are doing something with what they are doing, and a punishment of going against their natures as relating to other than these people. A modern example of this would have been the Facebook meme where girls were posting pictures of themselves kissing other girls for nothing more than fame and vanity.

Sin is a violation of the Law, and under the New Covenant all we must do flows from the commands to love God, each other, and ourselves and to forgive other’s transgressions as we ask God to forgive ours. A married Christian couple can accept the Spirit and the undeserved gift of Grace regardless of their sexes.

You have are trying to use an odd mix of too much Old Covenant and not enough of the New. Married Christians, whatever their sexes and genders, can do all that God has asked of us.

Angel Jabbins

“There are not ‘core issues’ to the Old Covenant…..fortunately the old Law is passed.” Again, I have to tell you kindly…you do not understand Scripture and are relying on secondary sources who teaching heresy.

The only part of the old Law that has passed away is that pertaining to the ceremonial and sacrificial systems that God put in place for the Jewish people. Those laws were specifically for them and them alone. Instructions…such as no eating shellfish…were not given to the rest of the nations. In Leviticus, every time an instruction was for the Jewish people only, it is preceded by the words: “Speak to the sons of Israel saying…”Just a few examples are:

Lev. 4:2, atonement for unintentional sins

Lev. 7:23, don’t eat fat from ox, sheep, or goat

Lev. 7:29, procedures for peace offering to the Lord

However, there are abominations that did not apply just to Israel but to everyone else also:

Lev. 18:22-30, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. 23 Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion. 24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled 25 ‘For the land has become defiled, therefore I have visited its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants. 26 But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you 27 (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled); 28 so that the land may not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you. 29 ‘For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their people. 30 ‘Thus you are to keep My charge, that you do not practice any of the abominable customs which have been practiced before you, so as not to defile yourselves with them; I am the Lord your God.’”

What abominations is Lev. 18:22-30 speaking of? Contextually, chapter 17 is about blood atonement procedures so that is for Israel, not for everyone. In Chapter 18, God says to Israel, “You shall not do what is done in the land of Egypt where you lived, nor are you to do what is done in the land of Canaan where I am bringing you,” (Lev. 18:3). So, now instead of it applying only to Israel, God mentions things that are done by Egypt and the land of Canaan. What were the things those nations did? The chapter contains the following.

Lev. 18:6-18, don’t uncover the nakedness of various relation

Lev. 18:20, don’t have intercourse with your neighbor’s wife

Lev. 18:21, don’t offer children to Molech

Lev. 18:22, don’t lie with a male as with a female

Lev. 18:23 don’t have intercourse with animals

So, there are requirements in Leviticus that are only for the Israelites, and there are lists of abominations spoken of that were for the non-Israelites as well. It is in the latter group that homosexuality is listed. It is a mistake for people to mix topics intended only for Israel with topics that included the non-Israelites. Furthermore, when we see that the New Testament condemns the idea of homosexuality in Romans 1:26-27, we could see the continuity between Old Testament moral law and New Testament moral law. It is the moral law we are concerned with in the question of homosexuality.

A common mistake made by homosexual proponents when discussing the Old Testament, in particular Leviticus, is the failure to understand the three main divisions of the Law: civil, ceremonial, and moral. This is important because the civil and ceremonial law are no longer in effect now, but the moral law is. The civil law ended with the demise of the Jewish civil government at the Captivity and the ceremonial law ended with the fulfillment of the priestly work of Christ, making the sacrificial system no longer necessary. If, as some argue, we are not under the Law and, therefore, we can dismiss Leviticus along with its clear condemnation of homosexuality, then shouldn’t we also dismiss Levitical teachings that warn against lying (Lev. 19:11), stealing (Lev 19:13), hating your fellow man (Lev. 19:17), exacting vengeance (Lev. 19:18), avoiding unjust balances (Lev. 19:36), sacrificing children (Lev. 20:1-5), committing adultery (Lev. 20:10), committing incest (Lev. 20:11-14), and the practice of bestiality (Lev. 20:15-16)? Of course not!

Are we to dismiss Leviticus along with the idea of being holy, of loving our neighbor and that God will walk among us in the person of Jesus? Of course not. To do so by saying we are not under the Law displays deep theological ignorance and exegetical prejudice. There are certainly aspects of Leviticus which are no longer applicable to us today (civil and ceremonial), but there are other parts that still are as is stated above in the moral aspect of the Law that was intended as admonitions not just against Israel but the other nations as well.

Finally, when we see that the New Testament also condemns homosexuality, it is clear that we cannot just dismiss Leviticus as a whole along with its moral regulations on sexual activity. Homosexuality is clearly condemned in Leviticus, and its condemnation cannot be dismissed by saying that we are no longer under Old Testament Law.

This is getting too long so I will not try to respond point by point to the rest of your comment. Only to say that no where in the Old Testament or the New is homosexual relations (or ‘marriage’) ever encouraged, or considered a blessed union like the male-female union God Himself initiated in the Garden at the time of creation. The only references to homosexual relations are negative ones. There isn’t even one homosexual ‘marriage’ listed anywhere in scripture. Even polygamy, which God allowed, but did not approve of, is in scripture. There is no mention of a single homosexual ‘marriage’.

Guest

Yes it was too long. You can’t subdivide the old Law to suit your choosing. It’s all in force or none of it is, as per God. Saying otherwise is the heresy.

Now that does not mean many mentioned things are not also against the New Covenant, Timothy’s reconstruction of what are called the 10 commandments demonstrates that, but that is because the violate the commands to love and forgive.

And though I think you are mistaken about many things none of them are what matters. Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? Have accepted the Holy Spirit and God’s undeserved gift of Grace? If so we are done, your fate is in God’s hands not mine.

Angel Jabbins

‘the vast majority of Trans people look like their identified gender’

Huh? You must mean outwardly…by wearing clothes of the sex they ‘feel’ they are? But it is what is under the clothes we are concerned about. We don’t want to be exposed to it nor have our children exposed to it. They may look like a woman or a man due to make-up and clothing, but when the clothes come off…..well…there it is for all to see, unfortunately.

Isn’t it sad we are even having this ridiculous discussion? I am not against Trans people having a bathroom or a place to change that they are comfortable with. The compromise that takes the freedom and rights of ALL people into consideration is for them to use their own uni-sex bathroom/changing area. What is so terrible about that?

Balerion

So how would you go about that? Force people to present their genitals for inspection before being allowed to use the restroom?

I swear, you people are f—-n creepy.

Angel Jabbins

What a ridiculous statement! It will become very apparent what sex the person is once they start doing their thing in the bathroom or locker room. And I don’t want to be exposed to male private parts in the female bathroom. Why is that sooooo hard to understand! Don’t I have rights too?

This is how have we done things for years….eons in fact…in human history. Anatomy has always been the deciding factor in the use of restrooms and nobody had to stand at the door to make sure you had the proper parts…did they? Why the big societal change now all of a sudden especially when we are talking about a tiny minority of people here. How did these Trans folks go to the bathroom all these many years….hmmm?

Balerion

Last I checked restrooms are for people to do their business and then leave; you’re not supposed to be viewing other people’s genitals or showing your own. Now, being a guy I’m not exactly privy to exactly what goes on in the ladies’ room, but I would imagine that the stalls would have doors that close and lock for privacy, and so once inside nobody should be seeing just what one has between their legs.

As for showers and changing rooms, I should think that most people with “non-standard” genitalia aren’t going to wish to be advertising that fact, and would wish to keep those parts hidden from view. (Same with non-transgendered people with genital deformities of some sort). And in the case of a post-operative transgendered person you’re not going to be noticing the difference unless you actually bothered to look closely enough – which would be rather creepy in itself.

Angel Jabbins

No matter what you THINK these people will do, you can not say for sure what they will do. It is just common sense that you don’t put two sexes together in a bathroom or locker/showering room to even chance that someone, especially children, would view private parts of the opposite sex. Can you not understand that most women (probably men as well) are not comfortable with a person with opposite sex genitalia being in the same bathroom/showering room? Don’t they have rights of privacy that need to be respected? Men use urinals that are right out in the open….no doors. If some of them are uncomfortable with a female in walking by them….they have no right of privacy? It is lunacy and you know it.

acontraryview

“well…there it is for all to see, unfortunately.”

You don’t have to look, Angel.

Angel Jabbins

Yeah, sure. I guess we will have to start wearing blinders in the bathrooms/locker rooms now. Pretty hard to do when you are showering. And young children being exposed to the genitalia of the opposite sex is perfectly fine with you? Where is your mothering instinct? Listen to yourself. You sound ridiculous! This whole conversation is ridiculous.

acontraryview

Where would you be showering that you would need blinders as a result of this ordinance?

How does this ordinance result in young children being exposed to the genitalia of the opposite sex?

Angel Jabbins

How do you keep them from seeing the male genitalia of the boy (who feels like a girl) who is showering next to them….at the gym, public pool locker room where people change in the open, in school?

You are so biased in one direction…on the supposed rights of a tiny minority…that you have completely no empathy for the concerns of others who may not ‘feel’ as you do. Everything is based on feelings today not on logic or what is best for the majority. Uni-sex shower rooms and bathrooms have existed for a long time and can be used by anyone….straight or trans…and nobody knows the difference in the people who go in, do their thing and come out. No one is made to feel uncomfortable and the trans person has full access to the facilities just like everyone else. Now that makes sense, but common sense if foreign to people today as is obvious with the ridiculous remarks I am reading here.

acontraryview

“at the gym, public pool locker room where people change in the open, in school?”

The ordinance does not apply to schools.

I have never been to a gym or a public pool where showers were not private. Are you aware of any?

As far as changing clothes goes, I find it highly unlikely that a male, who identifies as a woman, is going to strip naked in front of other people in a woman’s locker room. However, if they do, what is the big deal? Are you concerned that a woman will see a penis? Really?

“No one is made to feel uncomfortable”

You can’t make someone feel uncomfortable. Feeling uncomfortable is a choice.

“Uni-sex shower rooms and bathrooms have existed for a long time and can be used by anyone….straight or trans…and nobody knows the difference in the people who go in, do their thing and come out. No one is made to feel uncomfortable and the trans person has full access to the facilities just like everyone else. Now that makes sense”

Then it’s not an issue, is it?

Balerion

So would you prefer to have someone who looks like a man, dresses like a man, and presents as a man but under his clothes has female body parts follow your daughter or granddaughter into the women’s restroom? Because if one was required by law to use the facilities that corresponded to their gender (assignment) at birth. Although what would actually happen in practice is that he wouldn’t be able to use any public restrooms at all, save for single-occupancy unisex restrooms, as he legally wouldn’t be allowed to use the men’s room, and I don’t think that this person using the women’s restroom would go over that well.

What conservative opposition to people using facilities that correspond to their gender identity (and more importantly, their appearance) is is nothing more than a campaign to dehumanize transgendered individuals. It would force such people (who might otherwise be able to pass) to out themselves as being transgendered simply to be able to use a public restroom; and in doing so quite possibly expose themselves to a potentially dangerous situation.

Angel Jabbins

They may ‘pass themselves off’ as the opposite gender, but their genitals do not lie and neither does their DNA. They are free to use a uni-sex bathroom as they always have been and nobody will know one way or the other what is in their pants… and the privacy rights of others will bereserved amd respected. Problem solved.

But it is not about really solving the problem, is it? It is about transgenderism being accepted as normal by society…forcing it on everyone else and running roughshod over the rights of others. That is what the LGBT movement is all about.

Balerion

So let me get this straight – you are flat out saying that transgendered people should not be allowed to use gender-specific restrooms for either gender, and that if there isn’t a unisex restroom available that they should have to hold it in until they get home?

Or in other words, that they ought to be treated like second class citizens?

Angel Jabbins

Well, tell me….where have they been going to the bathroom all these many years before it was ever an issue. Hmmm?

Yes, uni-bathrooms will now HAVE to be made available in schools, stores, companies where people work…everywhere…by law. That is the only way the rights and feelings of ALL people can be respected.

acontraryview

“Pretty hard to do when you are showering. ”

Where would you be showering that would be affected by this ordinance?

“And young children being exposed to the genitalia of the opposite sex is perfectly fine with you?”

In what situations would this ordinance result in young children being exposed to the genitalia of the opposite sex?

Not true, but keep trolling to insist on untruths. Your lies have no affect on the Christian readers here. Their spirit is not easily swayed when it is guided by the Holy spirit. I pray others dont get offended with your propaganda , and speak the truth in love to you, so that you may see our peace as evidence that God is real.

Hastur

why do you idiots hate science so munch?

Guest

As a Christian I don’t fret about such things – I am secure in the God’s shepherding and His guidance on this. Christians aren’t afraid all the time other than of not doing as God has commanded – love Him, love others, love ourselves. That’s a full time job and worrying that someone somewhere might sin is pointless because we all fall far below God’s standards, and all can accept the undeserved gift of His Grace.

I pray that those who foster hate and fear rather than love someday accept the Spirit, then these issues wouldn’t require secular laws to begin with.

Let’s put a different twist on the words that cause such a negative reaction in people. “Fear of the lord is the beginning of all knowledge and understanding.”

“God hates sin.” Oh, that was a double whammy. Hate and sin in the same sentence. There is such a thing as sin. Until a human comes to that humble conclusion about themselves, they can’t partake of the fellowship with the spirit of God.

Guest

Of course God hates sin and under the New Covenant sin comes from not loving, not forgiving. Fear of being less than what God asks of us is a good thing, but I don’t see how that ties into transgender people using the restroom that’s best for them.

Any Christian exhibiting virtually any of the fruits of the Spirit would want them to use the one most comfortable with them and there can be no error in doing so – “for against such things there is no Law.”

You are lost. I’m sorry. How is it then, unloving of my 13 year old daughter to not be comfortable with a man in her restroom? You are what many would call a false prophet.

Guest

Not lost at all, that she is uncomfortable is your teaching opportunity to give her the Christian lesson that we are all supposed to love and help others, that usually when we are uncomfortable it is about something in ourselves and not the other person. I would suggest the story of the good Samaritan or Jesus’s many ministries to people such as leapers and the insane.

But please do point out what I have said that is false? What is sin for those under the New Covenant? That showing transgendered people compassion, kindness, charity, humility is a Christian thing to do, that there is no possibility that when before the Throne we will be told we were too compassionate, too kind, too charitable for against these things there is no Law?

If there is anything you think that I have said that is in error, please do share it specifically since in my Church everything I told you is Christianity 101.

Read your bible on sexual iniquity. Or better yet, read in Revelation the words of Jesus in the letters to the churches. See, the thing is, Jesus doesn’t care what seminary school you went to, or what denomination gave you your credentials, if you do not have the word of God as your foundation you are still lost. There is a grave warning in Revelation about those that would take away or add to the words of God.

Guest

Sex within marriage isn’t sexual iniquity, but you should know that. And you do realize that Revelation is about Roman persecution in the 1st century, right? That the ‘number of the Beast’ is the numerical summation of the time of the Initialism of Nero’s royal title? Revelation isn’t in the future, its in the past.

And I’m not sure what that has to do with Transgender anyway since that is about gender and not sex at all.

You were warned…… God and the heavenly court is not a democracy. I will not contend with a false prophet.

Guest

Thank you for the warning and I will point out to you that those who are focused on other than love and forgiveness aren’t doing what God asked of us and in my experience don’t exhibit the fruits of the Spirit, seeming more concerned with pointing fingers and saying ‘Lord Lord’ a lot. For your sake and everyone else’s beware of them.

So to be clear. If a Transgender adult is uncomfortable using the restroom his or her equipment dictates we should move heaven and earth to alter the world so that they don’t have to deal with any discomfit. However, if a little girl is uncomfortable with a grown man in the bathroom with her it’s her problem and we need to teach her that her discomfit is not natural or loving but a sign of something wrong in her from us? Got that right?

How is it not showing care or compassion to ask that people go as they have always done in the space provided for their actual gender, the one which they are outfitted for? What is inherently hateful to ask of them the same that we all do?

Guest

A little girl? why would they be uncomfortable? and what about the little boy in the next bathroom ‘uncomfortable’ because now the person in a dress with breasts is in the men’s room? or the child upset because the black person is in their restroom? or the bald lady? or the man with long hair?

Children are uncomfortable about the things their parents have taught them to be uncomfortable about. How about we let the people go to the gender bathroom they feel most comfortable with and the rest of us show them the same leave of consideration we would expect ourselves?

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatever ye desire that men should do to you, thus do *ye* also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

Kevin

How do they keep perverts out? How do they stop straight teen boys from using the girl’s lockerroom? As to the issue of the actual danger, I’m a man and our restrooms are loaded with lines of open urinals. Some only have a trough and we all stand side by side and use the trough, making as much room as possible. That is where Jerry Seinfeld got his”eyes front” bit, stay focused on the wall.

Even in the girls’ room there are often poorly kept stalls and missing doors. And mirrors are ubiquitous. One could easily steal peaks at others if so inclined or open the stall door before putting everything away while some little girl is at the sink. Scenarios abound.

Guest

Hmmmm, you arrest the ones doing inappropriate things, just like they always have. And you realized that trans people use stalls almost exclusively, right? And that there are people who are actually attracted to the same sex standing with you at those urinals and troughs and always have been, right?

Again, the more you talk the more your position sounds far more just mean spirited rather than based in any actual need.

Kevin

A.) I addressed your issue in my original post. That being that you want to make changes to the way things have always been in the name of making one select group of people more comfortable. But when faced with the discomfiture of another group, specifically my example of a young girl, you respond that they should just deal with it because you can’t make changes to make such bigots comfortable. So you make changes to fit the argument.
B.) My point about threat was an aside and a response to the ridiculous notion that no danger is at all possible. Of course it is. But you miss my broader concern. I will lay it out like this. I have a little girl. I don’t want her to know what a penis is yet. Aside from abuse, which is its own issue, I don’t let her see mine, she is not allowed to see her brother’s and I will keep her innocent as long as I can. So if, by accident, someone opens a stall too soon, or the restroom is not well kept or lacks stall doors as many do, and she comes out and asks me about the thing between the other person’s legs that she happened to see. We have issues. She is too young to be seeing the opposite gender’s organs, period.

So, if you are transgendered and you have gone through with all of the medical changes, as I stated before, if you have the proper equipment go right ahead. But until you do, follow the same rules we all do. When I was 15 and all I wanted was to see a naked girl I could not go into the women’s locker-room. I still cannot because I am a man, this movement has been to create a right (the right of restroom choice) for one small group that no one else has. Its not an equal right is an extra right. And to immediately, upon its passage, act as though it is unconscionable to have questions about it is disingenuous in the extreme. No one is inventing some new way to torture people who have always been allowed in the restroom of their choice. No one is taking away any kind of right from a select group that is broadly enjoyed by everyone else. No one is seeking to be mean spirited. People are simply saying, what was so wrong with the way it was before, when you quietly went to the restroom your equipment dictated until you were able to get that altered? And when weighed against some people’s concerns about safety (which I pointed out it is not sufficient to merely scoff at them as Neanderthals without a real concern) and about the general innocence of children when no harm is intended the creation of a new and unique right just to appease some activist view of what should be may not be as strong a case you think.

Sorry about the delay, I don’t check this often.

Angel Jabbins

“All sexes have been sharing restrooms and locker rooms with people of different sexual orientations and gender identities all their lives.”

Really?! I guess I must have missed something then because I have never experienced having to ‘share’ restrooms with men in all my 68 years on this planet.

Maybe the kind of rest room or locker room you are referring to is where only one person enters and locks the door behind them. Called Uni-sex because it can be used by EITHER male or female.. But, in that situation, you don’t have people of different sexes in the bathroom or locker room at the same time… so there is no danger of anyone being exposed to the private parts of the opposite sex. You lock the door behind you.

You are just being ridiculous trying to prove and justify something that makes no sense at all and could very well endanger women and children.

afchief

These homos, try as they may, will never have a true female experience. They’ll never carry a baby or nurse a baby. They’ll never hook themselves up to a breastpump at work in between meetings. They’ll never have their hearts ripped out when they hand that baby over for the day so that they can go back to the job they wish they didn’t have. They’ll never understand the heart struggle of watching their husbands make a decision they disagree with but will stand by, due their biblical beliefs. They’ll never understand what it’s like to see your teenaged body changing into a woman when you still wish you were tree climbing and frog catching. They’ll never know what it’s like to have your young heart broken by a pimple faced boy whose only interest is in what you can do for him. They’ll never have a period and they’ll never teach their daughters about what it’s like to have it every month.

acontraryview

“They’ll never carry a baby or nurse a baby. They’ll never hook themselves up to a breastpump at work in between meetings. They’ll never have their hearts ripped out when they hand that baby over for the day so that they can go back to the job they wish they didn’t have.”

You seem obsessed with male homosexuals. There are female versions as well, Russ. They do carry and nurse babies. They do hook themselves up to a breast pump at work in between meetings. And all people who love their babies find it difficult to separate from them.

“They’ll never understand what it’s like to see your teenaged body changing into a woman when you still wish you were tree climbing and frog catching. They’ll never know what it’s like to have your young heart broken by a pimple faced boy whose only interest is in what you can do for him. They’ll never have a period and they’ll never teach their daughters about what it’s like to have it every month.”

Yes, they will.

afchief

Ahhh yes, more proof that YOU are a LIAR!!!

Hastur

tell you truths that you refuse to accept doesn’t make us liars, it makes you ignorant

acontraryview

I see that his comments have been deleted. Perhaps too much use of all caps and exclamation points.

Jolanda Tiellemans

Maybe he is banned, because all his comments to me on the boards have been deleted.

acontraryview

I’m thinking so.

acontraryview

What do you believe I lied about, Russ. Please be specific.

Jolanda Tiellemans

And here is where the conversation stops, cause he can’t tell you. Man that guy is sooooooo predictable.

Emmanuel

Which story specifically? And you are right, I might of been in a locker room with gay men or transgender men, but we were all genetically men. But how does this show hate by the church or Christians?

Peter Leh

“The ‘lowlife perv’ was someone on the pro-discrimination side”

wait, the low life perv was one of US?

That is like a SBC pastor/deacon raping a white girl and blaming it on a nigger. That would NEVER happen, right?

afchief

If it has a Y chromosome… its a guy. PERIOD!!!!

Hastur

explain intersex people then?

afchief

Let me repeat if for you; If it has a Y chromosome… its a guy. PERIOD!!!!

Hastur

explain intersex people then?

afchief

Until they menstruate, give birth, have PMS, menopause and are truly “born this way”…they AREN’T WOMEN! They are perverts!!!!

Hastur

there are plenty of women who are born with out the ability to do any of those things, does that means they aren’t really women?

afchief

Bye liar!

Hastur

just because you’re ignorant doesn’t make me liar

afchief

The defining characteristic of liberals and homos is lying. I see it 100% of the time!!!!

Hastur

you’re confusing us with conservatives, they’re the liars and we have the evidence to back it up

Jolanda Tiellemans

You can actually find that info on the net. But I know you won’t look it up.

Jolanda Tiellemans

He can’t.

Guest

You need to learn a it more about genetics and sexual dimorphism. Y chromosome carriers with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome that develop with either total or partial feminine characteristics could account for the incidence of M2F transgenderism alone.

Every single human being has all the genetic information for feminization or masculinization, the only gene on the Y that usually triggers masculinization is the single SRY gene and even with it masculinization can be absent or partial both in gross morphology and neurologically.

Love is not an outward emotional response. Love is truth. It is patient, just, and not proud. Love endures, and I pray all of those that have that homosexual conversation with you will be patient, and suffer through your confused mind so that you may see the truth, and the love behind opponents of this disastorous law. I hope you see the love behind the husbands that wish to protect their wives, and mothers, and the parent’s that wish to protect their children.

Hastur

I don’t see any love coming form you, just fear and hate

afchief

Let me help you; If it has a Y chromosome… its a guy. PERIOD!!!!

Hastur

and intersex people?

afchief

Just wait, pretty soon there will be a bisexual transgender and we should accept him, her, it to use any bathroom. It is insanity!!!!

You and I as Christians know what is happening. Soon and very soon!!!!

Emmanuel

Yup, soon

acontraryview

I imagine the citizens of Charlotte are pleased with your decision.

Emmanuel

I’m sure they don’t care. But the dumb ones will travel there and put their daughters and sons at risk.

acontraryview

In what way will their daughters and sons be at risk?

Emmanuel

take your kids over there and find out

Susan Mallaun Gilleland

Do you realize that many of the trans citizens that need protecting *are children? Ordinances like this keep them safe.

acontraryview

So you are unable to cite how they would be at risk. Got it. Thanks.

Emmanuel

How about a man walking in and seeing a young lady changing? A woman seduce a boy. Do you want me to keep going?

acontraryview

So your concern is that a man, who identifies as a woman, is going to see a young lady changing clothes. And the risk involved to that young lady would be?

“A woman to seduce a boy”

How does this ordinance increase the likelihood that a woman would seduce a boy? I belong to a gym. I have never seen a “boy” there. Only adults. Are you suggesting that by allowing a woman, who identifies as a man, to use a locker room at a gym, that there is greater risk that person will be able to seduce a male at that gym? Do you have any instances of that happening in places that have had such laws in place for quite some time?

Emmanuel

I work for a prison. Want to hear the stories?

acontraryview

Since your working at a prison is not relevant to the topic at hand, no, I do not.

I’ll ask again:

How does this ordinance increase the likelihood that a woman would seduce a boy? I belong to a gym. I have never seen a “boy” there. Only adults. Are you suggesting that by allowing a woman, who identifies as a man, to use a locker room at a gym, that there is greater risk that person will be able to seduce a male at that gym? Do you have any instances of that happening in places that have had such laws in place for quite some time?

Emmanuel

Here’s my point; I work with PC 290 criminals. We know how they act and how they do their business. These are the ones we arrested while millions more go undetected. There’s probably a few at your gym, church and block. This law gives them easier access.
Bury your head in the sand and pretend the world around you is great but I live in reality. You might want to call your local PD and ask if they have pc290s in your area.

acontraryview

“but I live in reality.”

Great. Then, tell me, in reality, have there been any instances in cities or states that have had such laws in place for quite some time, any cases of abuse that have arisen as a result of laws of this nature?

Emmanuel

Nope they are all new. But, in studying perps, the access has been given and we might see more abuse. Do you want to play with fire?

acontraryview

“new” is relative, but such laws have been in place for up to 8 years. So, again I’ll ask: in reality, have there been any instances in cities or states that have had such laws in place for quite some time, any cases of abuse that have arisen as a result of laws of this nature?

Ax2root

This City Council must hate tourism

bill@19D

it should be noted that the legislation goes beyond the restroom component and was opposed by the same people and groups even when that component was removed. so even while that is the point of obsession the opposition clearly goes beyond that. a productive conversation would be how to pass these protections in the best way possible but unfortunately a large portion of the opposition will oppose the protections no matter how they are done.

it’s always nice to see conservatives show their true fascist anti-democratic nature.

acontraryview

He has his head somewhere, that’s for sure.

Carlos

Kowtowing to the sickest people is not good.

Hastur

that’s why we ignore conservative whiners

Cady555

During Jim Crow, blacks were not permitted in restrooms used by whites. If there was no restroom for blacks, like at most gas stations, they just had to hold it or go in the bushes on the side if the road. This system was established and enforced by Christians.

The same dehumanizing tactics are used over and over by those Christians who need a group of people to despise and humiliate in order to feel normal.

It’s time to grow up. Transgendered people are no more a threat to your safety or purity than the blacks in the segregated South who also just needed to pee.

afchief

It’s another word for homosexual. They are perverts!

Cady555

Whatever, they are no threat to you. Mind your own business and let them be.

afchief

No, I never will! I do not want perverts in the same bathroom as my daughter, period!

Ambulance Chaser

Well, no one is suggesting letting any perverts in bathrooms, so you’re all set.

afchief

Can you assure me 100% that some guy who puts a wig and a dress on and enters a girls bathroom is not a pervert?

Hastur

no but I can assure you that transgenders aren’t

afchief

You are a liar!

Hastur

prove it. I can provide plenty of examples that prove Conservative nuts like you are a bigger danger to women than transgenders

Ambulance Chaser

I can’t assure you of anything. First of all, I don’t know how you define “pervert.”

Secondly, I can’t assure anyone that any policy is 100% foolproof. A married, churchgoing male baseball coach of a boys’ team could be a child molester. I have no idea.

I can say that there is no reason to think a transwoman is any MORE likely to be in a bathroom for nefarious purposes than any other person, yes. In fact, the instances of that happening are zero, so I don’t know how much more assurance you could possibly get.

afchief

Pervert = transsexual = homosexual

Let’s see the result when the first chick with a you know what wanders into a girls bathroom in one of our urban Muslim ghettos.

Exactly! That is my response to the “transgender” person that feels unsafe going into the restroom of the sex hey are biologically. “Get over it. They are men, just like you and pose no threat to you.”

afchief

They are homosexual perverts, period!!!

Hastur

the number of transgender that have been assaulted by “loving” Christians such for yourself says the opposite.

Brad F

The race card.

How original.

Cady555

Nope. You completely missed the point. It’s just good old fashioned tribalism. Dehumanize those “others” to reinforce unity in “our” group. “Other” can be based on religion, race, sexuality, or just about anything. It’s human nature, but that doesn’t make it right.

Gary Whiteman

Right, tribalism. What a horrible tribe, thinking that men should use the men’s restroom.

They are a threat. They have taken advantage of the churches’ charity. They know Christians are admonished to love one another, and that the American tradition is to avoid conflict at all costs. But, conflict helps people grow healthier in a relationship with another person if handled properly. I will not avoid conflict for fear of being called hateful because I want to protect my daughters and sons.

Hastur

you idiots have lost, just accept it

acontraryview

“I will not avoid conflict for fear of being called hateful because I want to protect my daughters and sons.”

How does opposing this ordinance result in protecting your daughters and sons?

How have we gone from laws that can prosecute someone for using the restroom outside as a sex offender, to literally opening the door to people who want to use the restroom of the opposite sex? If you are a man and decide to go and undress in front of my daughter, I will hurt you. Period. Since this ordinance has been approved, I will not visit Charlotte.

acontraryview

Very few people use the bathroom to undress.

No doubt the city of Charlotte will miss you.

Becky

Pure madness isn’t it? Just give ‘em their own bathroom…the men that think they’re women and the women that think they’re men…they should all be able to get along in there.

Ambulance Chaser

At whose expense?

Becky

I’m jesting, of course. No one would want to pay for that. They should get nothing really. They should continue using the appropriate facilities as they have been their entire lives. It makes no sense that for the confused few, the majority must endure fear and danger. Sadly, common sense is being replaced with folly.

Ambulance Chaser

Fear is on you. What “danger?”

Becky

Fear is what any parent, girl, or woman may have towards the confused fella that walks into their bathroom/locker room. Those public facilities are vulnerable places to be in to begin with, especially for girls and women. Yet, they want to allow mentally twisted men/teens free reign in there. That’s madness!

Once again, the weak-minded want to allow the twisted to rule the land.

Ambulance Chaser

You keep saying “confused.” No transgender person is confused. They know what gender they are: the one their body doesn’t present.

There is also zero precedent for straight men pretending to be Trans to rape women in bathrooms.

Becky

There’s no evidence to back your…analysis.

I believe there has been. I’m not sure if it was in the United States.

TheKingOfRhye

I guess it would just be too much to ask that everyone just use the bathroom, mind their own business, and not worry about if the person in the next stall has the right equipment, so to speak….

Or look at it this way, even…..wouldn’t it cause a lot more discomfort or disruption or whatever if, for example, a trans woman is forced to use the men’s room? (which I suppose is what the ‘impassioned opposition’ in this story would prefer) People would either think that a woman’s
trying to use the men’s room, or it would be like she was wearing a sign on her head saying “I’m transgender”.

Anyway….how it would work, if there was a law saying you have to have the right anatomy for whatever restroom you intend to use? How on earth would that even be enforceable?

afchief

The inmates are running the asylum!

Hastur

no that stopped with Obergefell v. Hodges

Nidalap

…and when the inmates run the asylum, only the sane will be called crazy…

Hastur

and how do you know you’re the sane one here?

Nidalap

Well, for one thing, the inmates keep insisting that I’m crazy! 🙂

Hastur

and what makes you so sure you’re not the inmate? you’re the one with the imaginary friend after all

Nidalap

And you’re the one compelled to travel to a website specifically dedicated to those of a more Christian view. What would a psychologist say? 🙂

Hastur

there’s nothing worse than conservative under the delusion that they’re correct, I feel it’s my moral obligation to dispel that delusion

Nidalap

Ha! Sure it is! 🙂

Hastur

why don’t you stop trying to deny right to minorities? every time an LGBT youth kill themselves, their blood is on your and everyone who shares tour vile hateful views

Hastur

they would call you delusional. region is a form of mental illness

Nidalap

Ummm…which region is that exactly? The South? Upper Midwest? 🙂

Hastur

religion is a form of mental illness. now piss of. loser

Nidalap

You have a nice night too! 🙂

Hastur

religion is a form of mental illness. now piss of. loser

Nidalap

You have a nice night too! (^_^)

Hastur

religion is a form of mental illness. now piss of. loser

Nidalap

Hmm…name calling…repetitive speech patterns… 🙂

afchief

The new “homo” has arrived, and we’ve suddenly forgot all about them, and moved to a new level of freak.

Hastur

how does it feel to once again be on the losing side?

afchief

When you have Christ, you are never on the losing side! Without him you will lose……for eternity.

Hastur

and what makes you so sure he’s on your side? have you met him? have you talked to him?

afchief

I talk to Him everyday and He lives within me!.

1 John 4:4-6 (NASB) You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Hastur

so no, and what’s your proof that any of that is the actual word of god?

afchief

The bible has existed for thousands of years. Why don’t you put the bible to the test and see if it is true?

Hastur

I did and that’s why I’m an atheist, and in those thousand of years the bible has be re-written and translated hundreds of times, how can you be sure that anything in it is the word of god and something some ruler added or the result of a botched translation?

afchief

John 8:47 (NASB) He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

Hastur

and your point? when Constantine had the thing written he didn’t included every story that Christians told about Jesus, he just picked the ones he thought he could use politically.

acontraryview

“I talk to Him everyday and He lives within me!.”

What does he tell you about your constant bearing of false witness against others?

afchief

Matthew 7:20 (NASB) So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Your fruit is lying!!! I see it ALL the time!!!

acontraryview

“Your fruit is lying!!! I see it ALL the time!!!”

Then why have you been unable to cite anything that I have said that is a lie?

afchief

I have! Numerous times!

Chip01

Does he talk back? Do you hear voices?

Pointing to a passage in that book … Isn’t any more talking to Christ than pointing to a recipe in a French cook book written this year and saying you and J Child talk together.

afchief

This is a sickness! It is perversion. It is deviant. It is sin!!! From Charisma;

A concerned mom from Washington shared this with me about her local YMCA: “Just two weeks ago a boy around the age of 13 walked right into the girls’ side of the women’s locker room. All he did was sit down and scroll through his phone. Little girls where surprised when they came in from showering with their towels wrapped around them to see him sitting there. My daughter was one of those girls. This policy opens the door to those who have malicious intent.”

City Council members, why on earth would you bring this to Charlotte? Is this what you want for your spouses and kids?

In 2012, also in Washington, female high-school students sharing a college campus swimming pool were shocked to see a 45-year-old male student who identifies as “Colleen” sitting naked in their sauna. (The police report stated that “she” was exposing “her male genitalia.”)

The girls were traumatized and the parents outraged, but college officials said they could not do a thing because of state policies against gender-identity discrimination.

n California in 2013, “A man dressed up like a woman was arrested after entering a Macy’s women’s restroom in order to videotape women. He spent two hours in the restroom before his camera was noticed by a customer.”

In Oregon, in 2011, a man who had prior sex offenses against 5 to 9-year-old girls was arrested after he entered a women’s locker room dressed in a bikini and started talking to girls in the hot tub.

And your policy opens up the door to heterosexual predators – or are you prepared to tell us how you can distinguish between a male who identifies as a woman and a heterosexual male voyeur who dresses as a woman?

Why are we even discussing this madness? And how can you vote for a bill that claims that if a man simply perceives himself to be a woman then he is a woman. Last year, one supporter of this bill told me that if I believe I’m a horse, I can use the stable, since I’m not hurting anyone, while another protestor told me if I believe I’m black, then I’m black. To repeat: This is social madness.

Nope!!! The fundamentally undeniable genome is that no woman has a “Y” chromosome. You can dress it up and put lipstick on it. You can even mutilate the flesh (alter the genitalia) enclosing it, but you can’t change it.

Diaris

Chalk this up to so many Yankees moving south and bringing their fruitcake leftism with them.

FoJC_Forever

If I owned a business in a state or city with this type of law, I would have single person restrooms only. One person, one at a time, then no one is made to feel “uncomfortable”.

Then children will be more safe from potential perverts.

Follow Jesus, find Wisdom.

Reason2012

So they violate the privacy and rights of 99+% of the population to cater to those who need mental help.

“I’m pleased that Charlotte has sent a signal that we will treat people with dignity and respect, even when we disagree,”

Notice how they falsely claim to be about “dignity and respect” while mocking the “dignity and respect” of all women who want to be able to use the bathroom without someone with male genitals walking in on them.

Get active, people – the anti-America, anti-Christian, anti-normal activists are destroying this country one piece at a time in the name of “dignity and respect” while violating the “dignity and respect” of everyone else.

Guest

The obsession with genitals, exactly where in a bathroom do you see other people’s genitals without making an effort to do so? I go to public restrooms and can use them never ever seeing anyone’s genitals other than my own.

Reason2012

The obsession with genitals, exactly where in a bathroom do you see other people’s genitals without making an effort to do so? I go to public restrooms and can use them never ever seeing anyone’s genitals other than my own.

So you really have no idea why there are restrooms for women and separate ones for men?

Guest

Actually its more tradition. I know at the local beer festival there are many women would come in the men’s room and use the facilities, even those of this world are nonplussed by it.

Again, no one sees someone else’s genitals in a public restroom without making the effort to do so.

acontraryview

“of all women who want to be able to use the bathroom without someone with male genitals walking in on them.”

What type of woman’s restroom allows for any person – male or female – to talk in on a woman using the restroom? Every woman’s restroom I’ve seen has individual stalls with doors that close and secure.

Don Karns

I would hope that the mayor and city council members are elected ( unlike the SCOTUS), and therefore the residents might impeach or by voting against sin and ungodliness vote these wicked leaders out of a position of authority, If in fact they will act and not just speak against evil. Time will tell. We have seen that the transgender and the lbgt community never give up and go away; I hope the same will be said of those who are opposed to that which God is opposed to, and even those who are opposed to elected officials representing only the minority and disregarding what many hardworking citizens have spoken against.

Ambulance Chaser

And if they aren’t voted out? Are you prepared to admit that this measure is now law and leave it alone?

Don Karns

If the citizens who are opposed to this law don’t act according to their conscience, they will have demonstrated they are all talk yet are not willing to take a stand against what they know is wrong or evil. Therefore they will be without excuse when they stand before the just Judge of all the earth. And He will do right. I acknowledge this law exists in the state of North Carolina, but laws are written and enacted by representatives of the citizens there, therefore citizens are complicit in the enforcement of the law by their silence. For example, after WW2 had ended, and numerous Nazi leaders executed, US president Eisenhower demanded that every German citizen be found guilty of their silence during the holocaust even if they had not engaged in combat. All of mankind is made in the image of God, rational creatures with sense and reasoning, so that we know right from wrong-regardless how we feel emotionally; not like beasts to blindly follow our instincts. God has created us male or female, and no matter how a person feels emotionally, or dresses, or which hormone injections they use or abuse, or surgery they undergo, they are created with a code. The 23rd Chromosome pair is XX for male, and XY for female. On this one issue the feminist Germaine Greer was correct. A man could never “know” what it is like to be a woman. And I submit that a woman can never “know” what it is like to be a man. The conclusion is that men and women are opposed to the will of God, live in enmity with God, and rebel at every opportunity . The solution is Jesus Christ, His sinless life, His bloody death on a cross and His resurrection from the dead , so that Having made peace through the blood of His cross, He might reconcile all things to Himself, things on earth and things in heaven. And God commands all men and women everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day, in which He will judge the world in righteousness by the man He has ordained, and has given assurance to all men, in that He has raised Him from the dead. Repent therefore and be converted so that your sins would be blotted out, and you would have seasons of refreshing, made at peace with God. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Ambulance Chaser

So, “yes” then?

acontraryview

Don’t women’s restrooms have individual stalls with doors?

Nidalap

Indeed! Shouldn’t ANY man be allowed to enter at will? They DO have stalls after all. And with doors to boot! 🙂

acontraryview

I’m glad we agree.

Nidalap

I know, right? Where do these women get off thinking they should be able to stop men coming in on them whenever they please? This ordinance should teach them their place, don’t you think? 🙂

Carlos

You should know.

acontraryview

What is it I should know?

Chip01

This is great news, and from Charlotte NC too.

I understand fear drives people to bigotry and hatred, but education can drive ya back. Don’t be afraid of dignity and equality.

WWJD – he would love us and treat us equally

201821208 :)

“This present age is so flippant that if a man loves the Savior he’s a fanatic, and if he hates the powers of evil he’s a bigot!” — Charles Spurgeon

“male and female created He them” Gen. 1:27
“And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female” Matthew 19:4
See “Can a person be born with the wrong gender?” at gotquestions dot org

Nidalap

Kind of inconsistent. They tell us that there’s a “rape culture” out there, our women are in constant danger from the evil, predatory men. Then they FORCE them, over any objections they may have, to allow men into their restrooms and locker rooms.

In a way, they are effectively raping them themselves…

WorldGoneCrazy

Liberals are all about rape, Nidalap: their unholy sanctuaries – abortion mills – are the rapist’s best ally, the place he goes to get the “evidence” of his crime destroyed.

Ax2root

This Charlotte City N.C. is now officially a weird place that allows and protects perversion.

I feel sorry for all the normal , sane thinkers who will be tourist- hurt by this decision

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