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And I agree with that. My folks are part of the good side. However, we are arguing christianity with AT'ers and therefor I don't think one needs to always imply that there comments are not to be considered blanket statements. We all know each other here, and we know who our target audience is. And I would assume that most of us when arguing against christianity we mean the christian right and creationists.

If you are going to argue with what your idea of what Christians believe instead of the actual Christians here arguing then you are by definition offering a straw man argument,

You broad brushed Christians in the way an extremist from either side does. I have numerous friends and professional peers that are good scientists and followers of Christ and they also use discernment when incorporating any message from a minister into their belief system.

The bible is the absolute word of God to be followed by Christians, correct? Thus, expecting that Christians follow the bible as it is written is not a mis-representation of the faith or painting anybody with an undue brush. Now, understandably there are probably Christians who do believe in evolution, who don't believe a man could live in the belly of a whale or that hundreds of thousands of animals could all live for a year comfortably on a boat much smaller than most modern cruise ships that are not capable of the same. But technically, these people are outliers of the faith if they don't support the governing doctrine. It's not a straw man to claim that Christians believe that God created man through spoken word alone as that's what it states in the bible. It's not a position one is modifying to make it easier to refute, that's direct from scripture on which the argument is based.

This broad-brush argument is the same argument often made against Muslims (often by Christians) who claim that Muslim is a religion of peace. The argument states that if the Quran instructs Muslims to convert or kill non-Muslims, therefor the religion itself is not one of peace even though the majority of Muslims are themselves peaceful.

The bible is the absolute word of God to be followed by Christians, correct? Thus, expecting that Christians follow the bible as it is written is not a mis-representation of the faith or painting anybody with an undue brush. Now, understandably there are probably Christians who do believe in evolution, who don't believe a man could live in the belly of a whale or that hundreds of thousands of animals could all live for a year comfortably on a boat much smaller than most modern cruise ships that are not capable of the same. But technically, these people are outliers of the faith if they don't support the governing doctrine. It's not a straw man to claim that Christians believe that God created man through spoken word alone as that's what it states in the bible. It's not a position one is modifying to make it easier to refute, that's direct from scripture on which the argument is based.

This broad-brush argument is the same argument often made against Muslims (often by Christians) who claim that Muslim is a religion of peace. The argument states that if the Quran instructs Muslims to convert or kill non-Muslims, therefor the religion itself is not one of peace even though the majority of Muslims are themselves peaceful.

You are arguing against what you think Christians should believe and not what we actually believe while avoiding addressing what you actually say you believe honestly.

Are you trying to make a deductive argument? If you are you need to work on it some more.

They are called a questions. You're probably not familiar with the concept from Bible-School, since there is only one answer for everything there.

Seriously, why are you such a coward? So afraid to answer questions and always with the dodging.

I'll re-write the questions without numbers since that seems to spook you.

Does the bible state that God created man in his own image?
Does the bible state that Jonah was able to live in the belly of a whale?
Does the bible state that Noah put a pair of each animal on an ark, in which they survived a year long flood?

They are called a questions. You're probably not familiar with the concept from Bible-School, since there is only one answer for everything there.

Seriously, why are you such a coward? So afraid to answer questions and always with the dodging.

I'll re-write the questions without numbers since that seems to spook you.

Does the bible state that God created man in his own image?
Does the bible state that Jonah was able to live in the belly of a whale?
Does the bible state that Noah put a pair of each animal on an ark, in which they survived a year long flood?

Apparently my point is that you are afraid to answer very simple questions.

Anybody else, who is not afraid to answer random questions from a stranger on the Internet out of some fear that it is all some kind of trick, want to give it a shot? Yes or No will work ...or you can elaborate.

I seriously wonder how some people make it through a day of potential questions they might be asked.

The modern evolutionary synthesis as well as all evolutionary biologists (including Futuyma) recognize that macroevolution operates by mechanisms that include mutation, recombination, & natural selection.
Anybody claiming there is no known mechanism by which macroevolution operates is a liar.

Apparently my point is that you are afraid to answer very simple questions.

Anybody else, who is not afraid to answer random questions from a stranger on the Internet out of some fear that it is all some kind of trick, want to give it a shot? Yes or No will work ...or you can elaborate.

I seriously wonder how some people make it through a day of potential questions they might be asked.

Does anyone actually succumb to your manipulations?

What happened to the evolution discussion? Did you finally see the light?

They are called a questions. You're probably not familiar with the concept from Bible-School, since there is only one answer for everything there.

Seriously, why are you such a coward? So afraid to answer questions and always with the dodging.

I'll re-write the questions without numbers since that seems to spook you.

Does the bible state that God created man in his own image?
Does the bible state that Jonah was able to live in the belly of a whale?
Does the bible state that Noah put a pair of each animal on an ark, in which they survived a year long flood?

ill bite before Jim has a stroke

1.Yes, Adam and Eve were created in God's image although a new man is being formed in Christ. We aren't the same as Adam and eve.

2.yes. Jonah was in the belly of a "katos" or key-tos which means sea monster/ whale/ big fish. He was in the belly of a whale or fish but we don't exactly know it was a whale that we know of today.

3. Last question is two in one so..
Yes Noah was on the ark with 2 of every kind.
And 2nd part. Not sure if he ate them, never thought about it although I'm going to study it now. Thanks
It would make sense that he had to eat.. But I try not to lean on my own human short lived understanding..
Try it sometime Jim

You think that you are being manipulated if you answer questions? No wonder you need Jesus, your paranoia will chase real people away.

Do you find it odd that there isn't any yes or no question that you could possibly ask me to make me afraid I'm being manipulated? Why do you suppose that is?
Sorry, more questions ...don't want to worsen your anxiety.
I will pray for your insecurity

You think that you are being manipulated if you answer questions? No wonder you need Jesus, your paranoia will chase real people away.

Do you find it odd that there isn't any yes or no question that you could possibly ask me to make me afraid I'm being manipulated? Why do you suppose that is?
Sorry, more questions ...don't want to worsen your anxiety.
I will pray for your insecurity

1.Yes, Adam and Eve were created in God's image although a new man is being formed in Christ. We aren't the same as Adam and eve.

2.yes. Jonah was in the belly of a "katos" or key-tos which means sea monster/ whale/ big fish. He was in the belly of a whale or fish but we don't exactly know it was a whale that we know of today.

3. Last question is two in one so..
Yes Noah was on the ark with 2 of every kind.
And 2nd part. Not sure if he ate them, never thought about it although I'm going to study it now. Thanks
It would make sense that he had to eat.. But I try not to lean on my own human short lived understanding..

I'm not sure where you thought I asked you if Noah ate the animals as I never asked that question. Honestly I assumed that he must have had an ample stock of fruits and vegetables (since he likely had to both feed the animals and had to replant all the vegetation that didn't survive the flood, I would imagine).

But thanks for answering; I was curious if you (as a Christian) believed the events had unfolded as I summarized. Based on your answers you seem to agree this interpretation is more or less supported by the bible. That is correct, right? I'm not tricking you, am I? Do you feel manipulated? If you do and you're getting scared, please let me know and I will stop asking simple questions.

Do you think that other Christians who read the bible would agree with your answers above, or are you interpreting the bible to fit a belief outside of the Christian faith?

3.) yes noah was on an ark with 2 of each animal in which they survived for about a year.

you have to understand the tone of A&E.. i'm sure you do better than i. sometimes people ask questions to get an answer then a slam comes with the answering of the question. i'm not scared to answer questions but i try to stay aware.
Jesus actually spoke to people in a similar manner. he would ask a question or make a statement of which either he already knew the answer or might have been making the statement or asking the question to allow the other individual to realize something about themselves.
are you doing this?

yes i believe that most believers and followers of Jesus would agree with my answers. i dont believe i am interpreting the bible to fit something outside of Christianity.

I got that, I was just busting your chops because while others were afraid to even answer you were answering questions not even being asked.

Originally Posted by secretagentmann

i'm not scared to answer questions but i try to stay aware.
Jesus actually spoke to people in a similar manner. he would ask a question or make a statement of which either he already knew the answer or might have been making the statement or asking the question to allow the other individual to realize something about themselves.
are you doing this?

Yes, they're questions I already presume to know the answer to as they're pretty clear in the bible and thus all Christians who believe the bible to be correct would surely have the same answers. I asked the question to illustrate the point that one can easily and accurately determine beliefs of Christians without themselves being Christian since the beliefs are readily accessible. Thus stating a belief from the bible and applying it to Christians is not a straw man argument (as was claimed) anymore than stating a piece of American History out of a history book is a straw man argument.

I can state that Christians (in a broad sense) believe that Jonah lived in the belly of a whale (or other sea creature) for 3 days (based on the agreement that it is accounted as such in the bible) and I can argue that such is impossible based on science (without even observing the "historical science" directly) . I can give a list of reasons why it would be impossible, and no-doubt somebody is going to bring up the tale of James Bartley and there would probably be 100 pages of debate. But we can certainly agree that it is no straw man in play. I am not making-up or changing the account in the bible to serve my purpose and certainly it is something believed by Christians ...so I wonder why some Christians are so defensive?

Originally Posted by ZenBubba

If you are going to argue with what your idea of what Christians believe instead of the actual Christians here arguing then you are by definition offering a straw man argument

Why pre-preemptively state that any argument I am about to make must be a straw man that doesn't represent a belief and then subsequently refusing to answering any questions as to one's actual belief ...if not out of fear?

Originally Posted by secretagentmann

then again, maybe i'm looking too hard. however, i am curious. what is the purpose of your 3 questions.

Like I stated earlier, it's interesting to me as I'm not afraid to answer any simple yes/no questions as I'm quite secure in my own beliefs. I don't fear I will be "tricked" as it would be impossible to trick me with an answer to which I already know. I find those who are afraid to answer simple questions to be distrustful. That's why I asked. Quite simply it's fun to watch the dodge.

gotta get some entertainment somewhere right? i mean, with no hope of anything past this existence. the idea that once you die thats it. that has to be at the least, depressing. at least thats what comes first to my mind so that might not be your thoughts.
i dont know what i'd do without Jesus. as i believe, he is the only way to God after this existence, which is so temporary. even if you live over 100 years, compared to eternity 100 years is nothing. i cant prove Jesus is the way, not unless you could see through my eyes for a bit.
do you have any hope of anything past the little 100 years (if lived that long) ? or maybe your hope is in things here on this earth. things that eventually rot, rust, are destroyed. (unless your preserve them, spray em with wd40 and attempt to dodge the destroy part but i dont have a spray for that one)
sometimes tone is hard to see in texts unless you really know a person- and we dont know each other but i'm not being sarcastic or sly right now-

what gives you hope through your life, and joy in it now? do you feel any kind of security after 80 yrs? 90 yrs? 100 yrs? (aside from a retirement plan)