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Re: Dragon vs melee party

Originally Posted by tuggyne

Ordinary kobolds ... aren't. They're distantly related, sure, but they have a different type and no particular subtype advantages. It's only DWKs that are dragons at all.

being the lowest common denominator of a plethora of species can change one's type (Mongrelfolk are what happens when every half human interbreeds far enough, to the point that they no longer have the type of outsider or humanoid, but monsterous humanoid)

Re: Dragon vs melee party

It's all in the setup. Have the party meet a gnome with a newfangled quick-loading catapult in a heavy-duty fireproof (or acidproof, or whatever) cart, and when they're out and about have the dragon attack. Then it's a running battle as the party rides on a runaway cart with the gnome at the wheel (as it were) with the dragon performing strafing attacks (for whatever reason you see fit). Then when the party runs out of ammo they can fling themselves at the dragon, assuming you treat the aerial assaults as uber-charges for lots of damage.

Re: Dragon vs melee party

Originally Posted by Biotroll

I'm thinking of giving them nets and some NPC party support at this fight, with some time to prepare too.

Whatever you do, do not "give" them an über-powerful DMPC who saves the day. Doing so takes away any sense of accomplishment if they win. They should not feel like spectators in the game of DM's dragon vs. DM's NPC.

"remember: no matter where you go... there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai

Re: Dragon vs melee party

Originally Posted by Allanimal

Whatever you do, do not "give" them an über-powerful DMPC who saves the day. Doing so takes away any sense of accomplishment if they win. They should not feel like spectators in the game of DM's dragon vs. DM's NPC.

Or alternatively, give them an uber powerful NPC, who gives them tactical advice, teaches them how to fight dragons, whittles down its hitpoints a bit and then gets eaten (not swallowed whole, chewed up and then swallowed)

Re: Dragon vs melee party

Originally Posted by only1doug

Or alternatively, give them an uber powerful NPC, who gives them tactical advice, teaches them how to fight dragons, whittles down its hitpoints a bit and then gets eaten (not swallowed whole, chewed up and then swallowed)

This is flat-out bad advice. It feels contrived and makes the PCs feel worthless. If you do it badly, it'll break verisimilitude. If you're trying for any sort of seriousness at all, please, for the love of PunPun, don't do this.

Re: Dragon vs melee party

give them a NPC marshal 1 level lower than the party buffing accuracy and will saves and a squad of 2nd lv mooks, have them be competent in tactics but lack any sort of indivual asskickery, they'll provide some archery support and possibly correct some of the stupider tactics but will really need the pc's to carry the encounter or will die horribly leaving the pc's to pick up the slack.

Re: Dragon vs melee party

I think I'll settle with announced white dragon and NPCs for now. I was thinking of introducing rival party of NPCs anyway, so my PCs have some competition. Not going to do DMPCs of them for sure. I'm thinking of druid for some resists and heals, barbarian for net tossing and trying to hold the dragon down and ranger to help barbarian and throwing tanglefoot bag or two at dragon. Party should do the rest and should they get hurt badly, I'll let the dragon escape (most likely going to be badly wounded too) so they can track him down a bit latter and face him with a new strategy.

So the last question is: What music do you recommend for dragon slaying action?

And as bonus (if you are bored), names for the three NPCs? Probably going to make druid a female half-elf, ranger is going to be human male and barbarian is going to be dwarf male.

Re: Dragon vs melee party

Originally Posted by Biotroll

So the last question is: What music do you recommend for dragon slaying action?

The Okami soundtrack might be good for this. My internet is slow as crap for the moment so I can't give links, but go to Youtube and look up the "Okami OST" followed by "Twin Devils Moshirechik and Kotanechik's Extermination" and "Demon Lord Nine-Tail's Extermination."

Re: Dragon vs melee party

Originally Posted by Rubik

The Okami soundtrack might be good for this. My internet is slow as crap for the moment so I can't give links, but go to Youtube and look up the "Okami OST" followed by "Twin Devils Moshirechik and Kotanechik's Extermination" and "Demon Lord Nine-Tail's Extermination."

This is really great, thanks for tip.

Also thanks to everyone for replies. This thread can now be closed I guess.

Re: Dragon vs melee party

How to make a non-flying dragon:
1. Mineral warrior template.
2. Rattelyr don't have a wings. And chole dragon have tentacles for wings.

How to make a non-casting dragon:
1. The Nameless template takes away spellcasting and SLA.
2. Make it too young or dimwitted dragon.
3. Planar dragons don't have spellcasting at all.

The last thing - if you have a melee party, give them a "melee" dragon For example, dragon-war hulk or frenzy berserker...

If you want to make encounter a bit easy to them without under-CR dragon, you can give something which, while heightening the CR, doesn't do much for actual power. Such as NPC class levels or stacked half-dragon templates...