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That list is built of user reviews however it is almost all high gravity beer. Beer 6.0%+ is not normal, yet most of the list is built of that.

High gravity beer is more flavorful that normal beer. Doesn't mean the flavors are better.

High gravity beer buzzes you faster than regular beer. The early buzz after a few sips of high gravity beer is the best alcohol buzz there is IMO. Doesn't hurt when you are reviewing beer.

High gravity beer is more expensive than regular beer typically. People naturally think that more expensive = better and it is a hard mentality to break. I catch myself overrating very expensive beers moreso than I should.

I guess though I'm kinda in a phase where I am rediscovering enjoying hops and kinda shunning high gravity beers a bit. I love very well done simple beers.

I do like Russian River beers though. My Bro had his wedding on the coast up there by the Russian River, we rented out a bunch of awesome houses overlooking the ocean (Bodega Bay), the night before he got about 25 growlers in an assortment of all their varieties from their brewpub and had a big house party for all the wedding guests. Awesome, awesome beer.

I'll have 2 reviews (at least) later tonight. I discovered 2! new favorites last night, something that rarely happens. I find a new fave once every 3-6 months or so, two in one night is crazy.

Garde Dog - Love it. Never had the style (Bier de Garde) before but this beer rules. Has a very long and sustained aftertaste of Walnuts. Very drinkable and enjoyable.

Red Brick Brown Ale - I've always had high hopes for the style but always have been disappointed. I finally found what I thought Brown Ale had the potential to be. Wow, what a good beer. The flavors of a Porter in a lighter offering._________________

The problem with threads like these is that they get over-run with posts from guys who know nothing more than getting drunk. They don't realize that there is an art to making beer, and of course, it costs more to brew a higher quality. Instead of enjoying a high quality work of art, they'd rather spend $5 on a 6-pack of garbage, because "it gets the job done".

So instead of making posts about how Coors Light is the best because it's cheap, learn about good beer. Learn about what the different scents and tastes are. Learn what the different styles are. Learn what a lager actually is, and what it takes to make it, instead of believing it's what Bud is because it's on the can. You wouldn't go into a wine tasting room and tell everybody the boxed stuff is the best because it's cheap, so why do it here?_________________

to each his own, the beers on that list that i've had are awesome imo and are properly ranked.

Waldo wrote:

That list is built of user reviews however it is almost all high gravity beer. Beer 6.0%+ is not normal, yet most of the list is built of that.

if you looked at the bottom of the list it says how it was calculated (weighted averages), most of the beers in the top 10 had over 300 reviews, mostly by beer aficionados, why would you consider that a bad thing and what would you think a better way to go about it would be (in terms of ranking beers)?_________________
RaiderX with the assist^^

to each his own, the beers on that list that i've had are awesome imo and are properly ranked.

Waldo wrote:

That list is built of user reviews however it is almost all high gravity beer. Beer 6.0%+ is not normal, yet most of the list is built of that.

if you looked at the bottom of the list it says how it was calculated (weighted averages), most of the beers in the top 10 had over 300 reviews, mostly by beer aficionados, why would you consider that a bad thing and what would you think a better way to go about it would be (in terms of ranking beers)?

Most of the highest rated beers are a special batch, and those will always have the high alcohol %. All the beer review sites I've seen have the beers in the top 100, or top 50, with just a couple exceptions. It's the nature of the beast. Most are going to be Imperial/Double Stouts, Porters, or IPA's. A lot are going to be "oak aged" too. Some of them are going to have a two year fermentation period, which is going to add to the alcohol %. Another reason they're so expensive too. I know of a couple brewers that quit making theirs, because of the money they were losing by having one of their fermenters taken up for a couple years.

The Imperials/Doubles have the most flavor, which usually gets them rated higher. I don't always agree, but it's how it usually works. There are the times a 12oz bottle is going to cost you $15-$20, and it'll be 22%, but worth the treat. Those are a lot of the beers on that list._________________

to each his own, the beers on that list that i've had are awesome imo and are properly ranked.

Waldo wrote:

That list is built of user reviews however it is almost all high gravity beer. Beer 6.0%+ is not normal, yet most of the list is built of that.

if you looked at the bottom of the list it says how it was calculated (weighted averages), most of the beers in the top 10 had over 300 reviews, mostly by beer aficionados, why would you consider that a bad thing and what would you think a better way to go about it would be (in terms of ranking beers)?

Each style has it's merits and qualities, borne from centuries of work. I really do not think that any style is inherently better than any other. I've had knockout great beers in just about every style imaginable. But none of the very best beers that I've had have been high gravity.

I don't think a crowd is a very good way to rank things. For example, fans vote every year for who the best football players are. It is pretty much agreed that that system is crap.

Beer aficianados also tend to gravitate to particular styles, Trappist Ales for example, but high gravity beers in general. You won't find many beer snobs glowing over a Pilsner, yet the % of people in the world that would prefer that Pilsner over that which the beer snob is drinking is huge. Pilsners are crazy drinkable, and it is possible to get a great Pilsner. They are so closely associated with the megabrews that beer snobs turn their nose to them.

It is much more difficult to make a great simple beer than make a great high gravity beer. The margin of error is so slight.

All of the very best beers I've had have been homebrewed or from a brewpub. I've never really had a store bought bottle that was in the league of the greats that I've had. But I've also never had a high gravity beer that I considered great. I've had very, very good. But it is possible to have a truly great beer in practically any style.

Beer IMO should be more similar to a dog show. Each one judged on it's merits among the style guidelines, then the best of the best of those judged against each other. All that list say to me is that beer snobs like IPA's more than anything else.

To brew a beer judged to be great (for 5 gal), add 12 lb's of Muntons light, 1 oz of hops each at 90, 60, 45, 15, and 5 minutes, and add a pound of chocolate and a pound of crytsal malt, then use a belgian trappist yeast. Whallah, way too much of everything, age it for a year bottle conditioned, and you've made something great. Doesn't really matter how good you do it, the flavor power is so ridiculous it'll mask many of the slight taints that you may introduce.

Whereas true greatness is the one that can make an exceptional beer out of 5 lb of light malt, 3/4 oz of hops, and roughly a half pound each of chocolate and crystal malt, 1/16th of a pound of roasted barley, and a clean ale yeast. Not only can that beer be every bit as good as the strong beer, far more people will enjoy it and you can sit around all night and put them down. Great beer is a product of attention to all of the little things._________________

Beer from the Atlanta Brewing company is readily available around town here, but I'm not sure how far away it's distribution is. I picked up one of their multi packs so I have two more to go after this. Their Brown Ale is what I knew Brown Ale could be. Brown Ale (like Red Ale and Scotch Ale) is a style that is much more popular among homebrewers than domestic microbrews. A Brown Ale is a lighter beer with low hops that has a small amount of chocolate malt added for color and flavor. Chocolate malt it the flavor of Porter, and a good Brown Ale tastes of it, but it is light enough that other flavors come to the forefront as well. This beer uses a fruity yeast and is fairly highly hopped for a Brown Ale, mostly bittering hops. The chocolate malt is strong and distinct, yet so is the lighter malt, the yeast, and the hops, the finish is the lingering coffee/chocolate flavor of chocolate malt.

What I like most, this is a complex yet very drinkable beer. The chocolate malt stands out and is the featured flavor, yet it is complimented well by the other flavors.

What I like least, it's hard to see much in the way of faults. It might be a bit too strongly hopped, but this is really nitpicky, I can't think of anything else.

Overall I knew that a Brown Ale was capable of this, but never have had one store bought before. I had to wait a night to review it to try it again a second day, to make sure my taste buds were not screwed up. This is exceptional beer.

Gotta agree with you on the Pilsner thing Waldo. Most "beer snobs" will turn away from anything that is light colored. Even Ambers get a bad rap from the big beer drinkers. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them, everything is just opinion.

You really have to think about how you buy your beer. You probably wouldn't think twice about spending $5-$15 per bottle of a great Stout, Porter, or IPA. That price for even the best Pilsner, Kolsch, Golden/Copper, or even an Amber just seems ridiculous, and I'm a fan of all of those styles.

Waldo wrote:

It is much more difficult to make a great simple beer than make a great high gravity beer. The margin of error is so slight.

This is very true, but there's another side. It's a lot harder to brew a good high gravity beer than it is to brew a good simple beer. During my homebrew adventures I've screwed up a few Stouts, Porters, and IPA's, but I've hit the mark on every Kolsch, Hefe, and light ale I've brewed. Granted, they weren't what I considered "great", but they were all very good._________________

This is very true, but there's another side. It's a lot harder to brew a good high gravity beer than it is to brew a good simple beer. During my homebrew adventures I've screwed up a few Stouts, Porters, and IPA's, but I've hit the mark on every Kolsch, Hefe, and light ale I've brewed. Granted, they weren't what I considered "great", but they were all very good.

Really? I had a much harder time with the light ones than the strong ones. I always thought the strong ones were easy. The light ones OTOH, were so hard to get just right, as the whole just throw in more mentality didn't work, it took absolute precision with everything (really I didn't get good at the light ones until I went all grain), otherwise they had some weird off flavor, which was simple to mask with too much of everything.

One thing that I always did for the strong ones, I made a yeast starter out of a bottle of a bottle conditioned imperial stout (I forget which one, Old Rasputin possibly?, it's been more than 10 years), then made a batch of beer from it that was extremely strong. I have a 2.5 gallon third fermenter that I'll leave strong ones in for a year or longer (I'll bottle half and age half in the 3rd fermenter, often with boiled oak chips). Then I bottled that stuff. I've got a case and a half that I've been slowly drinking for the last 8 years, I've still got about a dozen. It is at least 11% ABV. The yeast in it makes a very good starter for a new batch of a very strong beer, as the yeast that is still living can survive in a very high alcohol environment. I think that I've made 4 batches using the yeast in the bottle as a starter for a new batch of a strong one. When I was in school we always shared yeasts from batch to batch, and we had a good strong one yeast we passed back and forth (though I lost contact with it when I graduated and had to do the Bottle Conditioned Imperial Stout thing).

Evolution at it's finest.

There are so many little things though that you can do to weaker beers that just have no effect on a strong one. One of the best stout's I've had was pretty weak, but it used really high iron well water, and used a portion of light malt that was cooked in a well oiled iron skillet with a little bit of peat, covered, until it was burned, as a replacement for some of the roasted barley. It had an iron-like/slightly smokey flavor, which pairs well with the usual stout flavors. Little things like that just can't be done high gravity, the excess of flavor would ruin it._________________

My Review
The most refreshing beer I've personally ever had. A nice clear golden color, with a smaller short lasting head. It actually has a lot of flavor for the style, and more hops than most too. It has a scent of citrus in the hops, and some in the taste too. There is a presence of the malts in the flavor, but the best way I can describe it is that it has a clean taste. This is another one that gets bad reviews from a lot of people because it's not a big beer. Perfect for a hot summer day, or mowing the lawn.

in terms of the getting drunk effects it's equal. In terms of taste, Killian's is 1,000,000 times better than any of those 5 you listed. Killian's is an average beer, probably a 6.0-6.5 IMO. I would love to see the reviews by Waldo of the following bigger beer providers:

My Review:
Pours a red/copper color with a finger tall, white head. Has the aroma of light wheat, plus cherry candy. I know they say they use real cherries in the brewing process, but it has a very candy taste. Very sweet initially, with a light bitter after taste. The presence of the wheat, and the hops, are there, but both are light. This is a love or hate beer, and I really like it every once in awhile. I'll grab a 6 pack every ow and then, especially when it's hot. It's a beer for certain occasions, very hard to pair with food. Nice for sitting on the back porch in the summer, doing nothing. Not a great beer, but sometimes the perfect beer for the day.

My Review:
Pours a bright yellow, with a small white head. Aromas of malted wheat, some berries, and hint of hops. A very sweet smell. More wheat taste than the Sam Adams. Sweet to start, with a balanced taste of the pomegranate. Finishes with a tart flavor, and light hops. Another beer that's perfect for the right occasion, but otherwise not the best. Again it's a hard one to pair with food. Perfect for the hot summer day.