It is not god that offends it is the belief that everyone on this earth believes the way you do...

The holidays you celebrate are not looked at by all as holidays...

I have seen disent here about schools being closed on Jewish holidays, but if someone were to complain about the celebration of christian holidays by our school systems they would be shot! I am a pagan and proud of it... my holidays are never celebrated by the current government and probibly never will be... do you see me bitchin?

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I support the separation of church and hate!

IMAGINATION - the freest and largest nation in the world!

One can not profess to be of "GOD" and show intolerence and prejudice towards the beliefs of others.

Am fear nach gleidh na h–airm san t–sith, cha bhi iad aige ’n am a’ chogaidh.He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

"We're all in this together , in the parking lot between faith and fear" ... O.C.M.S.

“Beasts feed; man eats; only the man of intellect knows how to eat well.”

"Without food we are nothing, without history we are lost." - SHADOWS

Is iomadh duine laghach a mhill an Creideamh.Religion has spoiled many a good man.

It is not god that offends it is the belief that everyone on this earth believes the way you do...

The holidays you celebrate are not looked at by all as holidays...

I have seen disent here about schools being closed on Jewish holidays, but if someone were to complain about the celebration of christian holidays by our school systems they would be shot! I am a pagan and proud of it... my holidays are never celebrated by the current government and probibly never will be... do you see me bitchin?

The Holidays celebrated in the US have ALWAYS been celebrated. They've always been celebrated. Aknowledge them as Christian and some don't. But they've become a tradition. If you don't wish to celebrate them during their time then don't. You're not required to. In Japan they celebrate Christmas but they don't aknowledge it as Christian.

Exactly, my son never got out of school for Sundance! All or none I say.

No one said you could pull your son out of school for the time of SUndance.

I mean no one said you couldn't pull your son out of school for Sundance. Hey this is a free country and this country was built on the traditions of Christmas and other holidays that are Christian. As a matter of fact this nation was built on Christian ideas. So if that offends you well no one is holding you back from leaving. Also, no one is stopping you from celebrating sundance.

I DO celebrate Sundance, and MY people were here first, so feel free to leave!

Hey Dog, as you know, I always appreciate your posts even when we disagree.

What does whether one was first or not have anything to do with this discussion? Not all Native Americans hold to the traditional ways. In fact, the majority of medicine people I speak with out here say their day is past. That's not my assessment, but theirs. Not all Europeans are Christians. And not all Tribes respected the beliefs of Tribes they warred against (Navajo-Hopi, Comanche- Tonkawa, etc).

I absolutely believe in the right of anyone to believe what they choose. I encourage Native speaking and singing in the churches I am involved with. I am sure I would disagree with some of your belief system, but I will fight for your right to believe whatever you choose. Not interested in a state run church. So, if it's all the same to you, I think I'll stay.

By the way, did your Tribe uproot a Tribe that had previously occupied what you now claim as ancestral land? Just curious.

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Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. -- John Quincy Adams

Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less - Robert E. Lee

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved - Romans 10:13 (KJV)

The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble, and he knoweth them that trust in him - Nahum 1:7 (KJV)

Oki Haynes, Actually it was the prior poster inviting ME to leave. And here in the north there is a very large return to the traditional ways, but then the northern plains have always been very conservative. I have no interest in a state religion either, but SOME seem to think that christianity IS the state religion of the U.S. And as far as tradition goes, we did not move anyone out, but we DID take over some lands that the Shoshone vacated after smallpox decimated them and they withdrew to the south and west.

I DO celebrate Sundance, and MY people were here first, so feel free to leave!

Well like I said, nobody said you can't practice Sundance. Your obviously native American. That's cool! Also you seem to have clan Gordon roots. As far as what I said before if it offended you I'm sorry. But you are free to do what you want here in the USA in practicing other faiths. I know very well it hasn't always been that way. But we've grown up since then. I'm a Christian and if someone hears about Christianity but does't choose to embrace that belief, I'm not going to force it on them or throw it in their face. I never have and never will. But just remember which thread you are in. Kirk and Chaple. If you don't want to hear about it here or have it preached to you, your in the wrong thread.

You coming in here only tells me that even though you're a pagen, deep down your Spirit is crying out for the truth and it thurst for the God of Abrham, and of Issac and Jacob, in other words, weather you like it or not or know it or not, your Gods child and he wants you. But God loves you and is a sort of like a gentleman, he only waits till he is invited. This is all I have to say. Now if you don't want to hear this then I'd stay out of the Kirk and Chaple. This is a place where Christians can share with one another there faith in Jesus and hopefully not get critizied for it. But the door is open for those who want to learn about God/Jesus.

Oki Haynes, Actually it was the prior poster inviting ME to leave. And here in the north there is a very large return to the traditional ways, but then the northern plains have always been very conservative. I have no interest in a state religion either, but SOME seem to think that christianity IS the state religion of the U.S. And as far as tradition goes, we did not move anyone out, but we DID take over some lands that the Shoshone vacated after smallpox decimated them and they withdrew to the south and west.

I certainly don't want to see state religion either. That was the original meaning of the seperation of Church and state was to protect the Church and allow Christians of all denominations and non-denominations practice equally. Now that ammendment is being abused and used by fundimental to try to bring down Christianity.