In anticipation of a raid, they filed a temporary restraining order against the ATF, stopping them from confiscating their property, Karras said. The ATF has a certain amount of time to respond. If the two parties do not reach a compromise, they will be in court for a preliminary hearing March 20.

Sounds like he is doing things through the court what exactly is the problem?

In anticipation of a raid, they filed a temporary restraining order against the ATF, stopping them from confiscating their property, Karras said. The ATF has a certain amount of time to respond. If the two parties do not reach a compromise, they will be in court for a preliminary hearing March 20.

Sounds like he is doing things through the court what exactly is the problem?

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I don't know. Feel free to show me where I commented on anything other than OP lawyer wanna bes and my general disdain for gun nuts. I said "if" he broke a law he should comply. That's all I said.

Pro Tip: If the ATF comes to your door the chances are that they have a legal reason and have a basic understanding that what they are asking for is within their rights. It's no guarantee, but assuming they are inept is just as dangerous and stupid as assuming otherwise.

Telling them that you Googled and read a Koneg post so you know your rights is prolly not the way to go. Call a real lawyer, not someone who plays one on the OP.

They wanted to regulate rocketry and we knew they were full of shit, why should we have backed down just because they are a government agency, wrong is wrong. We didn't need a lawyer to know APCP wasn't an explosive, it is simple science so we weren't about to be intimidated by people who didn't know what they were talking about just because they had badges.

HAHAHAHAHAH This store owner is culpable. And you can tell he is because he is fighting this after the realization that he was helping people skirt the law.

I hope he goes to jail for obstruction, rico, and terrorism.

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if 80% lowers are that bad, then why are they not going after the multitude of companies that make the metal ones, and not just the company that is making polymer ones?

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From the article it looked like these were specifically designed to be turned into something illegal. Like the only market for it is the market of people who want to do something they couldn't sell directly.

I'm not anti gun at all, but you have that battle in the courts and legislature. Not by intentionally enabling an illegal alteration on a product sold expressly for that purpose.

Making your own gun is not illegal. Of course if you are prohibited from buying a gun (felon), you can't make one either.

If the ATF came with a warrant with specific information they were looking for, that's one thing. A name, description of the person, the credit card used, or something. Wanting a list of every customer so they can go on a fishing expedition is something completely different.

Should the ATF be able to walk into a 7-11 and demand the security tapes and register receipts for every person that bought a pack of smokes in the last year? I think not.

Pro Tip: If the ATF comes to your door the chances are that they have a legal reason and have a basic understanding that what they are asking for is within their rights. It's no guarantee, but assuming they are inept is just as dangerous and stupid as assuming otherwise.

Telling them that you Googled and read a Koneg post so you know your rights is prolly not the way to go. Call a real lawyer, not someone who plays one on the OP.

Wigger please. You'd bend over and take it like any other internet big mouth. You're not even fooling yourself.

Bonzo your example isn't the same thing. I used to work with a lot of hazardous chemicals and with classification and tarriffs. Often we called in legal representation.

In this case it would be like they showing up at your place saying you had this substance and they were going to take it. Despite your bluster you'd be stupid not to consult with a lawyer. My point has been all along that when dealing with the Federal Govt being an internet expert isn't going to help. It's not just the issue at hand, it's a matter of all the laws and policies and everything associated with it.

Wigger please. You'd bend over and take it like any other internet big mouth. You're not even fooling yourself.

Bonzo your example isn't the same thing. I used to work with a lot of hazardous chemicals and with classification and tarriffs. Often we called in legal representation.

In this case it would be like they showing up at your place saying you had this substance and they were going to take it. Despite your bluster you'd be stupid not to consult with a lawyer. My point has been all along that when dealing with the Federal Govt being an internet expert isn't going to help. It's not just the issue at hand, it's a matter of all the laws and policies and everything associated with it.

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they DID consult a lawyer when they found out the ATF was going to raid them. that lawyer went to a judge, presented the shops' position, and the judge then issued a restraining order on the ATF.

recap- the company was producing polymer 80% lower receivers for AR15s, witch the ATF had already said were legal. some asshat in the ATF didn't like it. they started to bluster and threaten the shop. before the ATF could raid them, the shop owners saw what was coming, talked to a lawyer, and got a restraining order to prevent the AFT from ruining their PERFECTLY LEGAL business. much tears from the ATF.

The point of the businesses selling those parts is that those parts aren't legally guns and so don't need to be registered. This is an example of skirting the spirit of the law without skirting the letter. I wouldn't put much stock in the ATF being on the winning side of this kind of court battle. But enough noise and fear mongering might lead to future legislation attempting to address this type of skirting - and if so, another way will be found as the NRA and like supporters have plenty of folks involved in writing the legislation.

I don't care what they're going to do with it. They don't have any reasonable need to demand the list in the first place... so fuck them. If they can prove they need it, get a gawd damn warrant for it.

I don't care what they're going to do with it. They don't have any reasonable need to demand the list in the first place... so fuck them. If they can prove they need it, get a gawd damn warrant for it.

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/facekonegmirror

Cops doing what they always do, they insinuate consequences to get the 'suspect' to give in. The fact is, they asked for a list (probably because they have a reasonable need to see it - clue in thread), the guy refused, and now they'll go get a warrant if they really want it. Or try to find something this guy is doing illegally (if anything) and shut him down.

And all you pantie wetters are getting soaked over it, because OMG gun rights.

Cops doing what they always do, they insinuate consequences to get the 'suspect' to give in. The fact is, they asked for a list (probably because they have a reasonable need to see it - clue in thread), the guy refused, and now they'll go get a warrant if they really want it. Or try to find something this guy is doing illegally (if anything) and shut him down.

And all you pantie wetters are getting soaked over it, because OMG gun rights.

Cops doing what they always do, they insinuate consequences to get the 'suspect' to give in. The fact is, they asked for a list (probably because they have a reasonable need to see it - clue in thread), the guy refused, and now they'll go get a warrant if they really want it. Or try to find something this guy is doing illegally (if anything) and shut him down.

And all you pantie wetters are getting soaked over it, because OMG gun rights.

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ZOMG Free speech rights! Right on brutha!

ZOMG free press rights! Right on brutha!

ZOMG free association rights! Right on brutha!

ZOMG free assembly rights! Right on brutha!

ZOMG free religion/gun rights! FUCK YOU BRUTHA!

You're the perfect Democrat.

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Except I'm not a democrat, and i consider none of those rights absolute. You shouldn't either.

SAN DIEGO – With a search warrant in hand, federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives confiscated computers, customer lists and the questionable polymer 80 percent lower receivers from four Ares Armor store locations throughout San Diego County over the weekend.

“There were women and children inside our retail establishment when the (ATF) agents came in with guns drawn,” said Ares Armor Executive Officer Dimitrios Karras. “They came into our firearms manufacturing facility saying, ‘Arms up!’ like they were invading Iraq.”

The raid happened three days after Ares owner was granted a temporary restraining by a judge to stop ATF agents from searching their stores.

Funny how Obama's government thinks they can just take what they want without the need for warrants.

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Isn't this based on the shortcuts Bush put in place? Where were your complaints and concerns for everyone's Freedom when the rules were being bypassed and re-written based on the OMG THE TERRORISTS defense?

Where was the concern by all the conservatives over the erosion of these rights then? I'll tell you. Nowhere. Not a peep. In fact most argued for it. Now?

OMG ARGLEBARGLE HE'S A DICTATOR! What does he think he is? A King? So...he's a power mad socialist despot. AND the weakest President, AND the worst President, AND the one who continued all of Bush's policies...

The restraining order was to stop them when they didn't have a search warrant. So they went and got one. That makes the restraining order kinda moot, depending on the specific verbiage of the order itself.

I really hope they keep following this story and we find out whether there was no cause for the ATF to suspect this place, or we find out whether shady shit was going on there.