I may not believe word for word what any administration says but I generally feel that the overall message is basically truthful. When you see that a particular person is a threat or even has a potential to threaten you, you will be inclined to generate whatever support you can to prevent that person from harming you. If it means stretching and even regrettably fabricating data to increase the support, I guess I'm all for it. I have no idea what motivations, if any, Hussein had that were going to intentionally harm the US. I trust our governnment regardless if it's Clinton or Bush or whoever to deal with it as they deem necessary. If they play by the rules and win, YAY. If they have to distort or twist the rosy colored lenses abit, oh well. The job got done or is getting done and that's all I'm concerned with.

As far as the media only representing one side of the situation over there, well DUH! No one reads the papers or watches CNN for "feel good stories". If they do, it's just for a momentary change of pace.

Nobody never's, and nobody alway's.
Bush is getting bad deal with the media. He's nobody's hero, but regardless of what he does, he's done. He cannot win with the media. If the US troops had found WMD, he would be a hero, and the war in Iraq would be just. If the TRUTH were actually known, I am confident that Sadaam took care of business with the months advance warning we gave him, and stashed his stuff. Unfortunately for truth, justice, and he American way, the media control opinion, but it won't ever be played out like that. The media knows little about truth, just drama.
As you were saying in an earlier post Dmec, you don't approve of hidden agenda's. Our Govt is all about hidden agenda's. IMO that does not make them evil. The American public has become a joke. We care more about American Idol, than the fate of our world. Don't have time to save my world...........gotta' see who's the father of Anna Nicole's kid.

Yea, Yea, Yea, I woke up on the wrong side of the rock

__________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios
thankyou Joe.......“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs

We go to war for 2 main reasons:
1. In retaliation or self-defense. (ex: Pearl Harbor, 09/11/01)
2. To free those living under dictators or corrupt governments.

We go to war for 1 reason: to ensure our domination over the rest of the world. To ensure that we remain the ONLY superpower. We don't go to war for anyone but ourselves -- and that is the way it should be, barring genocide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

I could not take the side of a country who attacks other nations without being attacked first, no matter what economic or social conditions are present in my country.

America attacked Iraq without being attacked first. I think you probably meant to word that differently. I think I understand what you mean.

__________________ To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.

hog1 good post. i am the type of person that would rather hear nothing, then hear a bunch of lies. most of the American public cant handle the truth( sound familiar?) but instead of lying, how about just keeping quiet, not lying and trying to trick people?

__________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan

The link was made between the two its how much they worked together if they did at all is what is not known. WMD's was thought by most major nations, UN, Congress, Bill Clinton, so I guess they all lied to us. I like how the Democrates in congress said the same thing and had access to the same information but now blame it all on the Bush administration.

i think its hysterical that everything that is wrong with America is always, somehow bill Clinton's fault. and the demos had the same info, but the difference is now that they realize they were wrong, they are trying to fix it. not being a cement head, like bush, and refusing to take blame, admitting mistakes, and trying to fix the problem

__________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan

The big issue that isn't being discussed is Israel. That is the primary reason why terrorists hate us. Not because of our way of life -- because we support Israel, and Israel dominates the region.

I think that simplifies the "war on terrorism." A lot of people tend to talk about "the terrorists" as though they are a single entity, with a single set of gripes, and a single strategy. That oversimplification is IMO, well.....simply wrong.

There are certainly terrorists whose main gripe with the U.S. is its support of Israel. There are other terrorists who are upset with other aspects of U.S. foreign policy (e.g., stationing troops in the Middle East).

There are also, however, a great deal of other terrorists who in fact find Western culture demonic. If you listen to a great number of Islamic radicals, they will tell you that democracy is evil because the only law that should govern is the law of the Koran. The American way of life is the epitome of everything that is wrong with democracy - it is hedonistic, materialistic, sexual, etc.

There are other terrorists who actually want to establish a caliphate extending from Spain in the Northeast (which was once ruled by the Moors - Muslims) to all of Africa in the South and much of Southeast Asia (which has large Muslim populations). This single "kingdom" would ruled by ayatollahs who strictly follow the Koran.

My only point is that there are a lot of different terrorist groups. They do not all agree on a single objective or ideology. In fact, that is why you see so many terrorist groups killing one another. So, it's wrong to say that U.S. foreign policy drives all terrorists. U.S. foreign policy may motivate some terrorists, but not all. And while I hate to agree with G.W., he's right when he says that some terrorists "hate us for our way of life."

DISCLAIMER: The vast majority of Muslims are peace-loving and decent. In talking about various "terrorist groups" above, I am obviously only referring to the violent minority.

hog1 good post. i am the type of person that would rather hear nothing, then hear a bunch of lies. most of the American public cant handle the truth( sound familiar?) but instead of lying, how about just keeping quiet, not lying and trying to trick people?

I agree, I don't like being treated like a sheep either, but I cannot deny that Americans have given the Govt reason not to tell us the truth in all circumstances. Maybe nothing is better than something HTTR

__________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios
thankyou Joe.......“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs

It's not like the government "lying" to the people is anything new. Politicians, even well-intentioned ones, have always had to "sell" their policies to the public.

Did Bush "lie" about the WMDs? In my opinion he did not. Just about every intelligence agency around the world agreed that Iraq had them (including the French and Russian intelligence services). Did Bush mislead the American public about how much evidence there was of the WMDs? Yes, but that was not in bad-faith as everyone thought the WMDs were there but the evidence was not solid.

For me, the interesting question about our entry into Iraq was not whether Bush lied about WMDs, it is whether even if Iraq did have WMDs should we have gone into Iraq. IMO we should not have and Bush was simply wrong.

As for what to do today, I think the whole WMD issue is water under the bridge. Everyone knows it was a mistake to go into Iraq, that Bush lied or misled us, and that we cannot undo what has already taken place. The issue today should be, "How are we going to fix this mess?"

1. You can't stop determined people. One of the greatest things about mankind is it's ability to adapt.
2. You can't win a global war. It's absurd that some think the US could win "the global war on terror."
3. If you keep telling people what they can or can't do they'll eventually give you the finger and do as they please.
4. The greatest threat to us isn't from dirty bombs or military hardware but rather from biological weapons. You can't stop people from cooking up a virus in some remote location.
5. If you aren't talking to people then you don't know who and what you are dealing with.
6. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I could never see Iran attacking America without attacking Israel first. IMO, if Iran has aspirations to attack anyone, it will be Israel. They just know that if they do so, America will be bombing their asses into oblivion. But, I do think they are prepared for that. Also, most of their important bases are underneath mountains. I'm not sure if we have bombs that can penetrate mountains. So, I am not sure if we could destroy their most precious military infrastructure without going in on the ground.

__________________ To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.