The Dodgers season ending in dramatic failure. No one expected to see them lose to the Cardinals this year after spending bags of money putting together essentially an all-star team. Yes, they had problem areas, the bullpen being a stand out issue, but with their starting pitching, this was supposed to be their year. They had chemistry, and a lot of fun in the clubhouse.

After seeing many games this year and witnessing the mishandling of the pitching staff, I have drawn the conclusion that Don Mattingly is largely to blame for the Dodgers failures. Consider the following:

The Dodgers were either leading or tied in every NLDS game against the Cardinals after 6 innings, but still lost 3-1. Every single pitching change Don Mattingly made when removing his starter, failed. Every single one.

In game 1, Kershaw, pitching a 2-hitter through six in 100 degree heat all day, came out for the 7th and gave up three straight singles. Bases now loaded, nobody out. And the bases were loaded because PUIG picked up that third single. NO one tries to run on Puig's arm, if they're smart. Any manager worth his weight in salt makes a mound visit under these circumstances, if for no other reason, to change the flow, to break the rally. Something. But let's stay focused and follow standard baseball procedures: Why not see if your PITCHER is OK? No one was getting up to warm up in the bullpen. No "visit" to the mound by Mattingly. Don Mattingly just sat there on his thumbs.

Kershaw gave up two more hits. Now, with the lead at 6-4 and only one out, Mattingly finally makes the trek to the mound. He asks Kersh how he's feeling, and gets the status quo response, so he leaves him in. Bang. BANG. Two more hits, the last one devastating as it clears the bases. Dodgers now losing 7-6, so Mattingly comes out and removes Kershaw.

What presence, Don. What leadership. A pro-active machine, steering the ship!

He then injects a Rookie into the game who promptly blows any chance the Dodgers have by giving up a three-run bomb, extending the Cardinals lead to 10-6. EIGHT runs scored in the inning. How in the WORLD does a manager worth his weight in salt allow this kind of an implosion by his team?? AGAINST his team!!?

Dodgers lose, 10-9.

Game 2: Greinke is pitching a no-hitter through 4. He finally gives up a double, but snuffs out any threat. He takes his tremendous game into the 7th where the Cardinals announce a left handed pinch hitter to start the inning. Greinke, who just walked out to the mound, is instantly removed by Don Mattingly to a standing ovation, and a cumulative sound of 55,000 swallowing hard and then holding their breaths. In comes Don's choice, J.P. Howell, fresh off two recent implosions. J.P. immediately gives up a lead off hit, then a devastating 2-run bomb by the Dodger killer Matt Carpenter. Greinke's tremendous shut out is vaporized as quickly as a lit match dropped in water. Matt Kemp would come through and hit a home run in the 8th, giving the Dodgers their only win of the series, but the screaming mishandling of the pitching staff, now exposed in all it's glory, is painfully evident to anyone breathing. Dandy Don has mastered the disrobing, perfecting himself as the master exhibitionist of the Dodgers shortcomings.

But perhaps the final blow would just smear dirt frosting on anyone's cake. Kershaw, on three days rest, is called to pitch a must-win game 4. In typical Kershaw greatness, he would pitch another 6 innings of winning perfection in a must win game 4, only to be pants'ed again by Donny baseball who let him start off the 7th with two straight singles, and again, do nothing. Anyone still conscious probably uttered the same "here we go again" concerns and likely thought "don't repeat the debacle, Don...get off your butt and at least go TALK to Clayton".

Nothing.

Up comes Matt Adams. I murmur to myself and friends as we watch the game, "This guy is dangerous, maybe it's time to call time out and discuss the approach on how to pitch this situation?"

Nothing. Clayton throws a curveball. A pitch no lefty has clobbered off him all year.

BANG. Gone.

On three days rest, Clayton is tired. You see, he is human. Made of flesh and blood. He is not a GOD. He is not a robot. He is a human. And he was, once again, left alone to die on the vine.

And he has feelings. And they are now destroyed. Something Mattingly is also exceptional at. He is, as my wife puts it, "The GREAT Destroyer". He can demolish anything he puts his touch on. In no time, too.

And if all is right in baseball....Mattingly's managerial career: FINISHED.

But possibly more important, more devastating in regards to the Dodgers future, Clayton Kershaw now has a horse collar of "Complete post-season LOSER" to wear for the rest of his life. And WHY? Because he's not that great of a pitcher?

He's one of the best in the game. Many argue THE best. So how is this possible? What happened? Who is to blame for this debacle, this "double failure" by an ACE on a strong Dodger team with nothing more than weakness in the bullpen?

Don Mattingly. I say not most, not some...but ALL his fault. He mismanaged the Dodgers pitching staff to perfection. You HAVE to TRY to be THAT bad. The Cardinals are not as good as the Dodgers made them look. As Don Mattingly made them look.

Of all the things Don Mattingly is, a complete hideous disgraceful coward is not something that would not jump out, even to us Mattingly critics. But that's exactly what he is. He has apparently stooped so low in an effort to deflect responsibility of the Dodgers failing to win in the post season this year onto the back of one of the teams star players, in an effort to keep his job.

Mattingly did the same thing last year. He handed over game one of the NLCS to the Cardinals and continued to mis-manage the team, primarily the pitching staff, and lose. Year 2, De ja vu. He benched Puig opening day for showing up late to the park 15 minutes, enraging the Dodger fans. (4-starting outfield players problem solved...for one day. Coward.)

Then he sits Puig in a must-win game? Puig, the strongest most accurate arm in ALL of major league baseball, a guy who will KEEP runners from taking that extra base, and more importantly, from making that attempt TO SCORE, out of the most important game of the year? Why, because he's striking out a bit more than desired? He hit a TRIPE the game before, scoring the Dodgers ONLY RUN in a 3-1 loss, so BENCH HIM? He is ALWAYS only one swing away from a HOME RUN, so, BENCH HIM? But that's Don Mattingly's M.O. Every player who had a great game during the year, could COUNT on being on the bench the following day. You see, Don is also a fireman. He extinguishes every "fire" presented before him. Only problem is, the fires he extinguishes are always on the Dodgers. He's such a dysfunctional manager, he fans the fires of our opponents.

This article spells out just how low of a human being Don Mattingly is, just how low he'll stoop to keep his job, a job I might add he has NO right having. In an effort to justify his benching of Puig in a must-win game, he comes up in the aftermath of his 2nd-year-in-a-row managerial failure with these meaningless examples of how "Puig didn't give full effort"??? Unbelievable. These two examples are shameful, one having NO IMPACT on the game (his "lack of hustle" to get to a ball Hanley ran down. CARL CRAWFORD was CLOSER to the ball and made as POOR if not LESS of an effort to get to the ball than Puig did), and the other a strike out?? EVERY player strikes out! How is that a LACK OF EFFORT when he SWUNG at the PITCH??

I have been a season ticket holder at Dodger Stadium these past two seasons, and I have told anybody who will listen to reason that this Dodger team, no matter WHO is on the roster, will never win ANYTHING with Don Mattingly managing it. He is a complete failure in regards to having a feel for the game. He doesn't know how to motivate, to rally the troops, but ironically instead is a career destroyer. He destroyed Andre Ethier's, and now possibly Clayton Kershaw's due to his lack of effort to MANAGE when MANAGING was called for. I fully expect the intelligent ownership of this Dodgers team, after careful review of the season, the players, the management, and what went wrong, to follow the arrows pointing to where the real problems are and act accordingly. The bullpen will be addressed.

And I am confident the Dodgers will start the 2015 season with a real manager.

Dusty Baker. Someone who actually WON something as a player. Someone who knows how to win. A Dodger at heart. But most importantly, a winner and World Champion.

Don Mattingly MUST be fired. He is incompetent. He never won anything as a player, and certainly will never win anything as a manager. It's clear to anyone paying attention that he's already proved that.

"Of all the things Don Mattingly is, a complete hideous disgraceful coward is not something that would not jump out"

...should read:

Of all the things Don Mattingly is, a complete hideous disgraceful coward is not something that would jump out

There is no edit feature so I am correcting it here, my apologies.

Chris

slab0meat

10-13-2014, 12:24 PM

Don Mattingly is largely to blame for the Dodgers failures.

Don Mattingly. I say not most, not some...but ALL his fault.

Sooo.... largely to blame or totally?

He is incompetent. He never won anything as a player, and certainly will never win anything as a manager. It's clear to anyone paying attention that he's already proved that.

I can't count how many times I heard this about Francona with the Phillies. But hey, if you say he certainly won't, who am I to disagree?

Roady

10-13-2014, 08:12 PM

Too bad Mattingly didn't pick up a bat and put himself in the lineup. He probably could out hit most of the lineup in the last half of the season.

ShaimOnYou

10-13-2014, 10:58 PM

Sooo.... largely to blame or totally?

I can't count how many times I heard this about Francona with the Phillies. But hey, if you say he certainly won't, who am I to disagree?

Hi meatslab,

The Dodgers failures as a team are largely his fault because of his failures (motivate, lead, educate, direct, choose line-ups, prepare, atc.) as the manager of the team.

The play-off losses.....are TOTALLY his fault, directly tied to his failed managerial moves, buffoon decisions, and lack of cerebral matter. This man simply doesn't have the IQ for the position. Nor is he in tune with the game, his pitchers, the time and place for a sound managerial decision, or how to MAKE ONE when one is needed. Which, I might add, when done is almost always too late. He just stands down low on the Dodger dug-out steps peering out onto the field in that empty "DOH-DE-DOH" manner hoping all the problems will just go away. Pathetic. This Dodger team deserves better. The Dodger ownership must expect better, and us fans DEMAND better!

onlyalbert

10-14-2014, 09:25 AM

As they say hindsight is 20/20. If Kershaw has gotten the outs and he left Grienke in and he got outs you would all be saying how smart DM is. Bottom line is the players must execute. They are highly paid to do this. Also, sometimes it seems a team just has your teams number. Maybe God is a Cardinal fan, but in any case.....you guys may pay Kershaw......but the Cardinals OWN him.

helf35

10-14-2014, 11:31 AM

It is all a game of what if's. What if Mattingly makes the move to the pen for Kershaw and the bullpen emplodes for 8 runs then you would be pissed for not leaving him in. Puig had struck out 8 times in 12 at bats he obviosly wasnt right so why not try and switch it up with a man who is paid 15 million a year to play the outfield in Either. If you want to blame someone blame the gm for overpaying for Either. What will they do with Pederson now. Are they going to run a 5 man outfield rotation again. Just because they have the highest payroll doesnt mean they were the most talented team on the field. The cardinals have owned Kershaw in the playoffs for whatever reason maybe you should just chalk it up to that. There is a reason the Cardinals and Giants have been in the past 5 NLCS. They are good teams too with a smaller payroll.

scootmagroot

10-14-2014, 01:49 PM

I wanna read this...but all I see is "wah wah waaaaaah wah waaah waahha sniffle waaahh wahhha waaaaaaaaaah." Then another rant about how the Doyers should be handed the world series ring because they paid for it.

Too bad this is baseball and the Cardinals were and are the better TEAM. Not to mention, if they did get past the Cardinals, the Giants are still a better TEAM.

When that final game ended, I personally could not contain my laughter because I knew I'd see or hear something like this.

And no, I'm not a Cards or a Giants fan....I unfortunately am a Padres fan (another reason why I couldn't contain my laughter)

Make excuses but, Kershaw doesn't look like a playoff pitcher up to this point. His post season record proves it (or playing against the Cardinals skews his numbers).

Puig? Too many K's. That's not Mattingly's fault. I think it took guts to bench him.

As far as Dusty Baker, he can't manage a pitching staff any better than Mattingly. Ask any Cubs or Reds fan. If being a winner as a player means anything, the Dodgers should have kept Bill Russell.

The "Cardinal Way" trumped the "Corporate Way" once again. Too bad the Dodgers don't play on paper 'cause they sure look good on it.

ShaimOnYou

10-14-2014, 10:04 PM

That's alot of blame to heap on one person.

That a LOT of LOSSES from managerial decisions for one team.

ShaimOnYou

10-14-2014, 10:11 PM

Make excuses but, Kershaw doesn't look like a playoff pitcher up to this point. His post season record proves it.

I see.

I'm just curious, did you read ANYTHING I posted to start this thread? Sometimes players and teams need to be MANAGED.

And that would be IN A MANNER TO WIN. Not to destroy someones career, post season or not. Have you ever thrown over 100 pitches in 100 degree heat to professional batters? At some point it does take a little toll on you. It's the manager's responsibility to MANAGE the situation when it's screaming obvious there is a PROBLEM, HOUSTON. Mattingly is incapable. Nothing is more obvious than that. We have two consecutive years of play-off PROOF to back that up.

ShaimOnYou

10-14-2014, 10:16 PM

Puig? Too many K's. That's not Mattingly's fault. I think it took guts to bench him.

And it will take guts to fire Mattingly, but the new President of operations was hired to do just that. Watch.

Mattingly removed the best defensive outfielder in a must-win game. Brilliance on display. Dodgers brass just can't be this asleep at the wheel. Mattingly will be gone soon. And it can't be soon enough.

ShaimOnYou

10-14-2014, 10:21 PM

The "Cardinal Way" trumped the "Corporate Way" once again. Too bad the Dodgers don't play on paper 'cause they sure look good on it.

And why is that?

I ask you, HOW could such a great team "on paper" blow 3 out of 4 games they were either WINNING or TIED while going into the 7th inning?

Maybe because the guy in charge of what happens on the field is a buffoon?

onlyalbert

10-14-2014, 11:09 PM

And why is that?

I ask you, HOW could such a great team "on paper" blow 3 out of 4 games they were either WINNING or TIED while going into the 7th inning?

Maybe because the guy in charge of what happens on the field is a buffoon?

Or maybe the Cardinals are just a better team?

R. C. Walker

10-15-2014, 12:21 AM

And why is that?

I ask you, HOW could such a great team "on paper" blow 3 out of 4 games they were either WINNING or TIED while going into the 7th inning?

Boston dumped salary on the Dodgers, not great players, and went on to win the World Series last year (Good riddance to Adrian Gonzalez. San Diego has done just as well without you. He proved he was a whiner in Boston). I had to chuckle when I saw him try and bully Yadier Molina.

LA plays in an awful division lead by my Padres. The only competition, the Giants, are still in the playoffs capitalizing on a couple Cardinals mistakes.

The "Corporate Way" is to blame and complain when things don't go their way ie. PUIG and his temper tantrums. I would venture a guess and say, St Louis wouldn't put up with his antics no matter his "potential". Or better yet, he does not fit the Cardinals mold of a player and they would have no interest in him.

The "Cardinal Way" is followed by those left in the Playoffs. No Superstars or Prima donnas. Just good solid baseball players. If that's not proof enough, we'd see the Yankees and Dodgers in the World Series annually.

One last prospective. My Padres have been in more World Series' than the Dodgers in twenty five some odd years. . . . . ONE.

F'in Mattingly.:D

ShaimOnYou

10-15-2014, 07:53 PM

I'm starting to see the light.

Puig is out of line for getting pissed for being drilled by pitchers on a regular basis.

Adrian Gonzalez, the MLB RBI leader, is a no good chump and the Padres suck just as well as they sucked when Adrian was crying there...just with a few less runs.

The Dodgers are blessed because they're fortunate to be stuck in a weak division with that soon-to-be three time World Series champion weak-arse Giants loser team dynasty thing going on there, but are cursed because they whine themselves out of their entitled corporate victories while Don Mattingly, the Joe Torre clone, looks handsome on the bottom step of the dugout while doing nothing as he watches a real team like the Cardinals groove off a tired pitcher for a half-an-hour straight.

Your points are well taken. I am now a soccer fan because I see I don't understand baseball. I can't thank you enough.

ShaimOnYou

10-17-2014, 06:38 PM

As they say hindsight is 20/20. If Kershaw has gotten the outs and he left Grienke in and he got outs you would all be saying how smart DM is. Bottom line is the players must execute. They are highly paid to do this. Also, sometimes it seems a team just has your teams number. Maybe God is a Cardinal fan, but in any case.....you guys may pay Kershaw......but the Cardinals OWN him.

I was just re-reading your post, and being a Dodger fan, I have to say the Cardinals definitely have our number.

But just as the 2004 Red Sox proved, streaks and curses and "predictable results" can be changed when someone with greatness takes the reigns and steers the troops in the right direction.

All I'm saying is, Mattingly can't even lead a horse to water. In fact, Mattingly is so inept, he misses the horse completely, jumps on a "cargo-haling" mule, and proceeds to wound the beast to death with his spurs when the donkey won't move.

Then in the news conference, he's questioned:

"But Don, when looking at the gut of the animal you were steering, couldn't you see it was bleeding profusely? Why didn't you jump off and pick another animal to ride?"

"DAAHhh, to heck with THAT! The saddle I was on was EXPENSIVE and comfy as all get up, and quite frankly I've ridden those other beasts. I'm still plucking splinters out of my hind end from jumping on those, so I kicked and kicked that darn expensive mule, and the sum beach up and died on me. Not my fault."

"Um...OK Don. I guess you have many friends in the Dodger org which is why you're still allowing us the opp to ask questions. So we'll move on. So Don, in a MUST-win game, why would you bench your human high-lite reel center fielder who would certainly keep runners at bay if the situation arose?"

"WHO? Andre? I played him, what are you..."

"NO...Don. NO.

PUIG....Don. YASIEL PUIG. You know, DON? Arguably the BEST defensive outfielder in the game today?? The player who single-handedly saved your job last year, DON. The player who, unlike you, actually LIT A FIRE under the team, resulting in he and his teammates going on a record setting 42-8 run, DON...which ironically made an argument for you to (amazingly) be AWARDED a three-year EXTENSION during an obvious moment of confusion on the Dodgers ownership's part?"

(In a level monotone, expression blank, no signs of life, no firing electrons in the nervous system) "I'm not going to get into that. I did what gave us the best chance to win. I picked what I thought was the line-up that gave us....the best chance to win."

The press, embarrassed over the empty response to their obvious inquiry directly shining on Mattingly's failures, sat speechless. What more was there to say? And in the stifling silence, there sat Don, eyes empty, glased-over with a blank numbskull look of stupidity. Finally, mercifully taking on the task of ending the bewildered crowd who painstakingly listened to the buffoonisms coming from a man obviously misplaced in his profession, a press member spoke up.

"Yes, Don, you did.

And how did that work out for you and the Dodgers, Don?"

ShaimOnYou

10-17-2014, 08:29 PM

So Andrew Friedman had his big day in front of the media while announcing how happy he is to be a part of the Dodger organization.

The FIRST QUESTION from the reporters was "Will Don Mattingly be the manager of the Dodgers next season?"

I would argue the fact that this, being the FIRST question asked of Mr. Friedman in his new position for the Dodgers as President of Baseball Operations, was a statement in and of itself. It tells me the baseball world is aware of the Dodgers biggest problem going forward.

It makes more of a statement than Andrew Friedman's answer.

Mattingly will stay, at least for 2015. So the Dodgers brass have obviously supported their first financial blunder (Mattingly's 3-year extension after showing he knows how to lose last year) with another, adding a layer between ownership and DON. Is that maybe because Don showed even more convincingly he REALLY knows how to lose this year, so next year when the Dodgers are SURE to be under-performing again, blowing games here and there with line-up juggling, mismanagement of the pitching staff, not base-stealing attempting pinch runners, handing outs to the other teams from sacrifice bunts when the situation doesn't call for them, or whatever else Don's little pea-pod can muster up, that they'll have a guy on board to perform the overdue firing?

Here's one soon-to-be ex-season ticket holder anxious to find out.

But no longer caring. Adios, Dodgers.

Skizzick

10-18-2014, 12:02 AM

Is there some deeper layer to your beef with Mattingly? Did he not sign an autograph for you when you were a kid? Did he accidentally run over your dog?

ShaimOnYou

10-18-2014, 07:50 AM

Is there some deeper layer to your beef with Mattingly? Did he not sign an autograph for you when you were a kid? Did he accidentally run over your dog?

Nope.

I've been a die-hard Dodger fan all my life. Since Tommy Lasorda retired (as a manager), it's been a painful run, now 26 years, for us Dodger fans. One loser after the other managing the team. And that "loser" list includes Joe Torre. You take away his great Yankee run, when ANYONE could have won with that team, and Joe was a miserable manager too. But at least Joe has personality, is a class act, and could handle the "personalities" in baseball, so he had some measurable success.

My problem with Mattingly is that I see nothing. I see blank darkness when I look into his eyes. I don't know what team or sport you follow, but baseball is not an easy game. You need a cerebral thinker at the controls. One that knows when to act, and more importantly how to not muck things up. Mattingly, in my view, is a complete waste of time. He is too much a "players manager" and therefore he can't make necessary decisions when they need to me made. He won't pull a player when they should be pulled. He benches players who are on fire! He mishandles the Dodgers pitching staff to perfection.

I guess it's not so easy to see if you don't follow the Dodgers on a regular basis. I have nothing against Donnie personally. But I know baseball enough to guarantee you this: The only ways the Dodgers ever win another World Series is if they go find a manager with an understanding for the flow and intricate details of the game. Mattingly manages by the book. He is vacant, without consciousness, asleep at the wheel. Ask ANY serious Dodger fan, and you'll get a similar response. We know were doomed with this guy, and that's my beef. It's frustrating as hell. The Dodgers should have won the National League West by the beginning of September. We all watched Mattingly lose game after game with stupid decisions all season long. And the Dodgers had to wait until the last few days of the season to lock up the Division.

Then...Mattingly struck again. Destroyed Kershaw's two great pitching performance, evaporated Greinke's great shutout, and pulled Ryu too soon in what could have and should have been a Dodger SWEEP of the Cardinals, while he hovered at the bottom step of the dugout each time with that stupid expression of his. So the Dodgers are playing golf as we prepare to all watch the Giants in the World Series AGAIN.

It's the futility of his existence in Dodger blue. I can't understand why ownership can't see it, as all us season ticket holder fans can. The Dodgers will have to put together a team like the late 90's Yankees to have any chance of winning a World Series with this buffoon running the team. And even then, they'll have to win DESPITE Mattingly, not BECAUSE of him.

slab0meat

10-18-2014, 02:04 PM

Keep posting about it, while no longer caring. Makes a lot of sense.

beachpetrol

10-18-2014, 02:25 PM

I found out why you are so mad now....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvSmfyRc3pM

Phil316

10-18-2014, 02:33 PM

awesome video

jbsportstuff

10-18-2014, 09:47 PM

That video was fantastic. I've seen people have a beef with someone, but this thing goes DEEEEEP. Wow.

ShaimOnYou

10-19-2014, 01:38 PM

Yep, that video was just fabulous. Don Mattingly is the man. Some small minded trivialization via comedy relief is just what was needed here.

I'll try to hold back my expectations of worthwhile content before I post again. I see beachpatrol and meatslab have a tad of an issue with my comments regarding Donnie Einstein. My apologies. Didn't mean to step on your boy.

And meatslab, you're right. I shouldn't post if I don't care. So I guess I still do. It's called being passionate about something. And since I'm passionate about my Dodgers, I guess the proper thing to do would be for me to continue throwing away my money and keep my season tickets so I can watch the Dodgers stumble through another season, but ultimately winning the Division in the last week of the season, only to watch Division rival WILD CARD San Francisco go to their 4th World Series in 6 years.

Can't wait!!!

Just THINK of all the great pictures we'll be able to add to THESE GEMS!?

dougiedshow

10-19-2014, 02:10 PM

Heading into the postseason and seeing HOF caliber managers like Showalter and Bochy... It kind of felt like the Cardinals brought a knife to a gun fight. I feel your pain, I'm sure Matheny uses a magic 8 ball to make decisions sometimes. Oh well, many teams find a way to win with poor coaches or managers.

On a side note, don mattingly looks more like Bill Murray everyday.

r_phelps

10-19-2014, 10:04 PM

As a manager I may agree but as a player nothing's better than Donnie baseball. Just saying.

ShaimOnYou

10-19-2014, 11:04 PM

As a manager I may agree but as a player nothing's better than Donnie baseball. Just saying.

Yeah? Ask Andre Ethier how he feels about Donnie baseball.

I understand a players goal is just to play, but shouldn't winning championships figure in the equation?

Ask the fans who pay the bills how they feel? I know I'm not about paying $12.00 and up for a beer at a game JUST so players can be over-payed exponentially to play golf in October. The ONLY goal that matters to us is winning. And in Dodgerland, that ain't gonna happen with Donnie Doh-Doh calling the shots.

The funny thing is, I guess Dodger ownership hired this Friedman guy (while neutering Colletti) to improve the Dodger roster. If he does a good enough job, even a Donnie Doh-Doh move may work out because the personnel won't matter if they're all great players.

Assuming Andrew fixes the "Donnie move" debacles, that's only half the problem. That still doesn't get us past the Donnie that WON'T make a move when he should. Knowing when to do that is part of being a good manager. When that half fails like the previous two years have shown us all it will, that will be on the Dodgers for NOT making the right move when THEY should have.

I still have nightmares of Donnie calling for Juan Uribe to bunt a runner to second in an effort to TIE the game. It was the 8th inning of the NLDS in 2013 against Atlanta at home, and Donnie can't get his head wrapped around going for a big inning. Small minded small-ball Donnie.

Juan squared around and fouled off two pitches, the crowd wincing all the while at the fact Doh-Doh Don essentially took the bat out of his hands while he represented the winning run.

I always wake up in a cold sweat as Juan connects on the very next pitch and sends it deep into the stands as he clinches the NLDS with that home run. The nightmare ends as I wake up when McGwire is explaining to Donnie what just happened.

xpress34

10-20-2014, 02:20 PM

We have two consecutive years of play-off PROOF to back that up.

This statement just cracks me up.

So he MANAGED the team for 162 games to get them INTO THE PLAYOFFS, but because they haven't won it all yet, he should be fired.

Makes perfect sense.

SMFH.

Roady

10-20-2014, 04:34 PM

Let's compare the revered Tommy Lasorda's first 4 years to the beleaguered Don Mattingly.

Wonder if Dodger fans called for Lasorda to be fired in 1980? Just think the Dodgers may have not won it all in 1981 if Lasorda had been fired. Who knows.

Roady

10-20-2014, 04:39 PM

2014 should have been 94-68 not 94-78.

ShaimOnYou

10-20-2014, 08:35 PM

This statement just cracks me up.

So he MANAGED the team for 162 games to get them INTO THE PLAYOFFS, but because they haven't won it all yet, he should be fired.

Makes perfect sense.

SMFH.

No, Smitty, I'm just SMFH. The Dodgers are LOADED with talent. THAT'S why they've been in the play-offs the last two seasons. If you watched the Dodgers on a daily basis, you'd be SYFH at the loses we suffered as a direct result of Mattingly BAD decisions. The team was STILL good enough to win their division. The reason why the Dodgers haven't won it all is because MATTINGLY is LEADING THEM, and his weaknesses are quickly exposed on that stage.

I have explained until my fingertips are bloody this guys snafu's as manager. His complete and utter lack of understanding how to handle a pitching staff, his line-up changes with no rhyme or reason as he PUNISHES the guys performing with "RIDING PINE" on a regular basis, his dismal decision-making process or lack there of, and the results. Oh GOD, those RESULTS! And you would stick with him, because, WHY exactly? Because he reached into a kid's POPCORN container in a cute video years ago???

He's a BUFFOON. Just when the Dodgers needed a guy with some baseball sense, Mattingly stepped deep in it and the Dodgers LOST faster than you could blink an eye. It's happened TWO years in a ROW.

Ever HEAR the old saying "FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU...FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME? How many FOOL ME'S do we Dodger fans have to live through?

Why not LOOK at how the Dodgers lost instead of "SM(Y)FH"? Ask ANYBODY in BASEBALL what the expected finish of a PLAYOFF game would be when Kershaw is taking a 6-2 lead, on a TWO-HITTER to that point no less, into the 7th. I can tell you this much, NO ONE would ever answer

"I think the manager will FALL ASLEEP and allow Kershaw, tired from 6 full highly pressured innings in 100 degree heat, to implode, NOT get anybody up in the pen in the process, and not even call time OUT to give him a blow until the stink was DEEP. Then, after deciding to leave him in when he was obviously DONE, the Dodger skipper watched Kershaw DIE ON THE VINE, continually PUMMELED until he lost his own lead (now 7-6), THEN is quickly removed! But Donnie wasn't DONE yet with his KEEN baseball insight. Oh HELL NO! He THEN essentially ENDS the Dodgers chances of winning game one by handing the Dodgers SEASON off to a ROOKIE who immediately dishes up a factory ordered 3-run BOMB." Now THERE'S a "SMFH" if there ever was one!! And I won't even REPEAT what he did to GREINKE, or RYU...or the WHOLE DODGER TEAM'S CHANCES!!

I really don't understand how you can't get the concept that he doesn't know what he's doing? Do I need to walk us all through GAME ONE of last years NLCH against the Cardinals, who by the way SUCK. We just MAKE them look FABULOUS! What, do we just let him FAIL over and OVER again until he stumbles over his own mistakes and WINS ONE?

Not me. Fire him. He's a LOSER. And I'm SMH (no "F", admin, please take note!) that you can't make sense of that. Other than to see you're a Colorado fan.....now THAT makes perfect sense to me why you'd like to see him STAY. :rolleyes:

ShaimOnYou

10-20-2014, 11:52 PM

2014 should have been 94-68 not 94-78.

...and the Dodgers may have won in 2013 and 2014 if Mattingly had never been hired.

Your turn. :cool:

xpress34

10-21-2014, 12:54 AM

...and the Dodgers may have won in 2013 and 2014 if Mattingly had never been hired.

Your turn. :cool:

MAY is the Operative word here. For all you know, maybe Colletti was pulling the strings for Mattingly just like the way the Rockies get managed. It's not the Manager, it's the Owner's and the GM's who are making the calls.

Case in point? The way the Rockies went south after their WS appearance in 2007. Was it really all Clint Hurdle's fault? Many fans sounded just like you do about Mattingly and eventually the Rockies did fire him and no Manager since him has done any better as the hired puppet.

That said, look at Hurdle now. He gets another team with small market payroll and he is making them into Post Season contenders - obviously he wasn't the problem here in CO (other than the fact he wasn't going to be the owner's dancing monkey).

Roady

10-21-2014, 06:01 AM

...and the Dodgers may have won in 2013 and 2014 if Mattingly had never been hired.

Your turn. :cool:

I was just making a comparison of the most revered Dodger manager in history's record his first 4 years to Mattingly's record.
There is no "Your turn. :cool: ".
I thought it was a good comparison. I didn't mean it to be a knock on the chip on your shoulder.

coxfan

10-21-2014, 12:44 PM

I have no opinion on Mattingly, but I want to make a general point. When I became a fan in 1957, there were just 16 mlb clubs. All that was required to make the World Series was to beat out 4-5 clubs during the regular season, since several clubs ( Phillies, A's, etc.) were rarely competitive. Thus, making the World Series was the equivalent of winning a division today, or even less because there were no inter-division games. Thus, a club played only seven other clubs all season.

Now there are 30 MLB clubs and multiple rounds of playoffs. It's much harder to get from a division title to the World Series than it ever was in those past decades. Yet many fans keep applying the same standards to postseason success as were the case in the 1950's. It's a different world now, and a world championship is, in my view, correspondingly more difficult and thus meaningful as a result of expanded competition.

ShaimOnYou

10-21-2014, 03:09 PM

MAY is the Operative word here. For all you know, maybe Colletti was pulling the strings for Mattingly just like the way the Rockies get managed. It's not the Manager, it's the Owner's and the GM's who are making the calls.

Case in point? The way the Rockies went south after their WS appearance in 2007. Was it really all Clint Hurdle's fault? Many fans sounded just like you do about Mattingly and eventually the Rockies did fire him and no Manager since him has done any better as the hired puppet.

That said, look at Hurdle now. He gets another team with small market payroll and he is making them into Post Season contenders - obviously he wasn't the problem here in CO (other than the fact he wasn't going to be the owner's dancing monkey).

Smitty,

Points well taken.

In fact, I wish the Dodgers would listen to you and send Donnie-the-dancing-Donkey on his way to another team where he can begin his fantasticly successful managerial career!

In all seriousness, I appreciate your comments and I welcome all differing views. Roady's comparison was interesting, but in my opinion, not relevant (but still welcomed and appreciated). A dynamic manager can take any given team any given year to a Championship. The other years in between? Looking at just the win/lost record doesn't tell the story. Injuries, trades, issues off the field, etc., can all play a big part in the reflected win/loss totals. But in any given year, they can win it all.

I just don't see that with Donnie. He doesn't have the ability or brain activity to "lead and inspire". He's nothing more than a spectator.

I think someone in the Dodgers front office needs to sit down with Donnie, hold him by the hands, look him in his eyes and say "DONNIE...it's been brought to our attention you need some clarification on a few things. First and foremost, the "LA" on your cap.....DOESN'T stand for LOST AGAIN".

ShaimOnYou

10-21-2014, 03:19 PM

I was just making a comparison of the most revered Dodger manager in history's record his first 4 years to Mattingly's record.
There is no "Your turn. :cool: ".
I thought it was a good comparison. I didn't mean it to be a knock on the chip on your shoulder.

Roady,

No chip on my shoulder, just living through the pain of being a Dodger fan.

Curious: Who's your team? Short of you being a Cubs fan, or maybe an Orioles fan (they've been starving for success for awhile now too), maybe you can sympathize it's been 26 years since the Dodgers have held up the trophy. Add to that we all feel we have a team that could and should be there at the end, and someone has to start looking at the reasons why we're failing.

I simply believe that the most obvious reason is our manager. I've witnessed his sheer stupidity on numerous occasions. There's just no getting around it.

Roady

10-21-2014, 03:40 PM

Roady,

No chip on my shoulder, just living through the pain of being a Dodger fan.

Curious: Who's your team? Short of you being a Cubs fan, or maybe an Orioles fan (they've been starving for success for awhile now too), maybe you can sympathize it's been 26 years since the Dodgers have held up the trophy. Add to that we all feel we have a team that could and should be there at the end, and someone has to start looking at the reasons why we're failing.

I simply believe that the most obvious reason is our manager. I've witnessed his sheer stupidity on numerous occasions. There's just no getting around it.
I am a Braves fan. Trust me I feel your pain.
I have just learned over the years that the Braves will disappoint me.

earlywynnfan

10-21-2014, 05:04 PM

Roady,

No chip on my shoulder, just living through the pain of being a Dodger fan.

Curious: Who's your team? Short of you being a Cubs fan, or maybe an Orioles fan (they've been starving for success for awhile now too), maybe you can sympathize it's been 26 years since the Dodgers have held up the trophy. Add to that we all feel we have a team that could and should be there at the end, and someone has to start looking at the reasons why we're failing.

I simply believe that the most obvious reason is our manager. I've witnessed his sheer stupidity on numerous occasions. There's just no getting around it.

Uh, HELLOOOO!! Indians fan here, I wish I'd seen a trophy hoisted 26 years ago.
You guys are making me feel better about the Braves. :D

helf35

10-21-2014, 06:20 PM

I have a question I would like to hear some opinions on. I'm a White Sox fan and I would like to know if the game relies on the manager so much how the hell did the sox win in 2005? Was Ozzie a good manager for a year and then just unbelievably bad the rest of his career?

Roady

10-21-2014, 07:09 PM

I have a question I would like to hear some opinions on. I'm a White Sox fan and I would like to know if the game relies on the manager so much how the hell did the sox win in 2005? Was Ozzie a good manager for a year and then just unbelievably bad the rest of his career?
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. :D

coxfan

10-22-2014, 08:30 AM

These discussions remind me of what someone said of Casey Stengel: "I knew Casey both before and after he was a genius." Stengel was a consistently unsuccessful manager before being hired by the Yankees.

Mark17

10-22-2014, 11:56 PM

These discussions remind me of what someone said of Casey Stengel: "I knew Casey both before and after he was a genius." Stengel was a consistently unsuccessful manager before being hired by the Yankees.

And then he finished with four 10th place finishes with the Mets. So call me crazy but I think Mantle, Berra, Ford and that bunch had something to do with Stengel being in the Hall as a manager.

coxfan

10-23-2014, 09:27 AM

Some of Stengel's Yankee players have been critical of him in various ways. And when Stengel managed the Boston Braves in 1943, he was hit by a car at the start of the season. As a result he missed the first few weeks before he recovered enough to return to the dugout. One Boston writer rudely recommended the car's driver for Boston's "Sportsman of the Year".

When Stengel testified before Congress during his Yankee years, his Stengelese was incomprehensible to the solons. So when Mantle said " My opinions are the same as Casey's" a congressman replied: " Thank you, Mr. Mantle. Would you be so good as to explain what Casey's opinions are?"

But at least your team has played in TWO more recently than my Dodgers. Just saying. But yeah, I hear ya. It sucks.

ShaimOnYou

10-23-2014, 06:53 PM

And then he finished with four 10th place finishes with the Mets. So call me crazy but I think Mantle, Berra, Ford and that bunch had something to do with Stengel being in the Hall as a manager.

BINGO.

This is exactly my point. You can put together SUCH a good team, that it's bound to win. MANY championships. It's the manager's job to just not get in the way of the winning when that happens. Other times, the team needs a strong leader to navigate them through a tough run. The managers that have that ability usually carry their teams.

Donnie throws marbles under the Dodgers feet. Clayton may never be able to get up from the mat after this post season, wearing TWO Don Mattingly play-off losses around his neck for life. Poor Kersh, he pitched two gems, and lost them both because he was asked to be super human, to not be susceptible to elements, to have an endless pitch count. It's lead by observation, react after disaster, and explain losses via "damage control" in post game interviews.

But walk away laughing because you got a three year extension after losing to the Cardinals last year. What ever happened to earning it?

ShaimOnYou

10-23-2014, 07:04 PM

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. :D

But Don wouldn't know what to do with it.

Sportskansascity

10-23-2014, 11:10 PM

You can't blame everything on the manager. A big league manager should not have to motivate grown men to win. Look at all of the teams who made it to the ALCS and NLCS. Each team have multiple leaders

You have to have great veteran leadership on a team and that's what the Dodgers lack. They have all of the talent in the world but besides kershaw there's no one who leads and brings people together. I'm sorry a manager shouldn't have to do that. Someone in the locker room needs to step up.

I am not attacking you just arguing your view. I'm a royals fan (grew up and live in KC) so I know what it's like to second guess managers lol

jbsportstuff

10-24-2014, 09:46 AM

If I was Don Mattingly, I would have issue a restraining order. WOW.

rdeversole

10-24-2014, 10:28 AM

If I was a Moderator,, I would really consider the necessity of this user (ShaimOnYou) and his contributions or lack thereof to this forum.

ShaimOnYou

10-24-2014, 10:38 AM

If I was a Moderator,, I would really consider the necessity of this user (ShaimOnYou) and his contributions or lack thereof to this forum.

How poignant.

So you have a problem with "General Sports Discussion" and a little humor?

Many of you members seem to be so uptight here. Why is that?

rdeversole, how would you feel if you found out I've forgotten more about the sports memorabilia hobby than you've even known? How can you make such a silly comment when you don't even know me?

chisox1967

10-24-2014, 11:15 AM

Unsure if this is relevant; but let's take a look at the Atlanta Braves from 1991 to 2005.

There will likely be a total of FIVE Hall of Famers from those Braves' teams:
Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Chipper Jones, Bobby Cox and John Smoltz.

The Braves went to the playoff 14 times during 1991 - 2005.
The Braves went to the World Series 5 times during those years.
The Braves won only 1 World Series Title during that time.

And, Bobby Cox is a HOF'er .............

ShaimOnYou

10-24-2014, 11:16 AM

You can't blame everything on the manager. A big league manager should not have to motivate grown men to win. Look at all of the teams who made it to the ALCS and NLCS. Each team have multiple leaders

You have to have great veteran leadership on a team and that's what the Dodgers lack. They have all of the talent in the world but besides kershaw there's no one who leads and brings people together. I'm sorry a manager shouldn't have to do that. Someone in the locker room needs to step up.

I am not attacking you just arguing your view. I'm a royals fan (grew up and live in KC) so I know what it's like to second guess managers lol

Sportskansascity,

Your comments are very welcome and I appreciate them.

I understand where you're coming from, and to a point I totally agree that a team should have a strong leader ON THE TEAM. But who would that be if there isn't a clear cut player stepping forward in a group of superstars?

The manager. After all, isn't he the one in charge? He needs to step up and motivate. If there is nothing to "motivation", then why all these great scenes in sports movies? Why was Jim Belushi's speech in "Animal House" so popular? Why are there all these people making a living as motivational speakers? Chris Farley's "motivational speaker" on Saturday night live stands as one of their all-time best skit themes. Motivation is important, even to guys who shouldn't need any. If done properly (see "Tommy Lasorda"), it can bond a group of egos together for a common goal.

I was thinking about this very subject earlier in the season, and the two obvious choices (besides Kershaw) to me would have been Matt Kemp or Adrian Gonzales. I gave the nod to the ladder because Kemp still had something to prove coming off two seasons of devastating injuries.

I actually felt the Dodgers NEEDED to name a captain for the very reason you mention. The team NEEDED a leader, and for me Adrian was the logical choice. He is bi-lingual, the teams 3rd of 4th (or 5th) hitter (depending on Mattingly's menstrual cycle) and was the RBI leader of the team (and ultimately as it turned out, MLB).

But it didn't happen. And guess who I blame for that?

I mean, does ANYTHING that should happen ever materialize on this ballclub? DOH!

NOPE. Instead, we get THIS:

ShaimOnYou

10-24-2014, 11:32 AM

Unsure if this is relevant; but let's take a look at the Atlanta Braves from 1991 to 2005.

There will likely be a total of FIVE Hall of Famers from those Braves' teams:
Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Chipper Jones, Bobby Cox and John Smoltz.

The Braves went to the playoff 14 times during 1991 - 2005.
The Braves went to the World Series 5 times during those years.
The Braves won only 1 World Series Title during that time.

And, Bobby Cox is a HOF'er .............

chisox1967,

All baseball fans agree, the Atlanta run was incredible, but in the end they underachieved having only won one World Series during the "great run". But they did it with superb pitching. NOt gazillions of dollars with star position players (even though they had their share of great ones, Chipper being a certain HOF).

They also did it without spending the kind of money the Dodgers laid out, and they didn't have the expectations the Dodger ownership do.

This is why I am pouring out my soul as a Dodger fan here. I want to support ownership by letting them know, on a PUBLIC FORUM, that we Dodger fans (yes, I speak for many) just don't believe Mattingly is the man for this job. Sweet GEEZUZ, all one has to do is look at the two-year running play-off debacle he's performed and it doesn't take long to realize all we can expect is more of the same.

At the end of the day, look at your own argument. Yes, you only won ONE championship in all those years.

But you MADE IT to 5 WORLD SERIES. That's an accomplishment in and of itself.

ShaimOnYou

10-24-2014, 11:56 AM

OMG,

my heart is racing.

I JUST HEARD that Joe Maddon OPTIONED OUT of his contract with the RAYS!!!!!!!!!!!

I was thinking about this very subject earlier in the season, and the two obvious choices (besides Kershaw) to me would have been Matt Kemp or Adrian Gonzales. I gave the nod to the ladder because Kemp still had something to prove coming off two seasons of devastating injuries.

I actually felt the Dodgers NEEDED to name a captain for the very reason you mention. The team NEEDED a leader, and for me Adrian was the logical choice. He is bi-lingual, the teams 3rd of 4th (or 5th) hitter (depending on Mattingly's menstrual cycle) and was the RBI leader of the team (and ultimately as it turned out, MLB).

I ask you, HOW could such a great team "on paper" blow 3 out of 4 games they were either WINNING or TIED while going into the 7th inning?

Maybe because the guy in charge of what happens on the field is a buffoon?

I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about the Dodgers or Mattingly, but correct me if I'm wrong on this statement.

The players still have to pitch, hit, and play the field. Despite a manager's decision, players can overcome it by doing their job.

Last time I checked, these players are grown men who are paid handsomely to play baseball. Don Mattingly or any manager for that matter, aren't going to suddenly make a player hit, pitch, or field better. Its up to the player to play and get the job done.

While Mattingly may be a problem, the players inability to get the job done in the playoffs is ultimately the problem at hand.

Really, meatslab? My typo's are more important to you than the content of my post? I'm at work so I type fast. Sometimes the fingers work faster than the mind. No edit feature here. Oh well. I get over it, hope you will soon.

In regards to the rest:

What's the relevance of a player's batting average during one series in the play-offs in regards to him being the team captain?

And can we please compare apples to apples? Donnie's win average doesn't compare to Adrian's batting average in the series. And, Mattingly's "1" in your 1-for-4 example was nothing more than a "Get well soon" card from Kemp. Short of that, the Dodgers were swept after winning or being tied after 6 in ALL of the NLDS games. I'm really sorry if you find that acceptable. We Dodgers fans don't. Especially how it went down. Both times it was this team's manager who blew game one, shooting his players in the foot out of the gate. Two years running. Then he continued to shoot them as they laid on the floor holding their bloody feet. The should-have-been results were altered by bad decisions. Relentlessly, until there were no more opportunities to make mistakes. Just golf reservations.

But that's just my opinion. I don't know what yours is. Can't tell from those barbed-wire posts of yours. Maybe you care to state your position on Donnie and his Dodgers and actually join in on the discussion?

ShaimOnYou

10-24-2014, 05:32 PM

I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about the Dodgers or Mattingly, but correct me if I'm wrong on this statement.

The players still have to pitch, hit, and play the field. Despite a manager's decision, players can overcome it by doing their job.

Last time I checked, these players are grown men who are paid handsomely to play baseball. Don Mattingly or any manager for that matter, aren't going to suddenly make a player hit, pitch, or field better. Its up to the player to play and get the job done.

While Mattingly may be a problem, the players inability to get the job done in the playoffs is ultimately the problem at hand.

BUC,

First off, thanks for the comment.

Let me ask you your opinion on this scenario:

-You're the Dodgers manager in the NLDS and you are playing at home.
-You have a 6-2 at the end of 6.
-Your starting pitcher has pitched 6 grueling innings in 100 degree heat.
-He comes out to start the seventh and gives up three straight singles.
-The bases are loaded now (the last single not scoring a run because it was hit to Puig in center field, and running on THAT gun ain't a good idea!).

What do you do?

A) Turn to your pitching coach and say "Got any more Cracked Pepper Spitz?"
B) Peruse the stands for a small boy holding a container of popcorn?
C) Gaze at the bullpen and start to chuckle uncontrollably?
D) Continue to watch while doing nothing, hoping "SWEET GEEZUZ" will stop the pain soon?
E) Get off your thumbs and take a walk to the mound to give your pitcher a break, some support, and check to see if he's OK, not DONE from a long day in the heat?

Mark17

10-24-2014, 05:50 PM

What do you do?

A) Turn to your pitching coach and say "Got any more Cracked Pepper Spitz?"
B) Peruse the stands for a small boy holding a container of popcorn?
C) Gaze at the bullpen and start to chuckle uncontrollably?
D) Continue to watch while doing nothing, hoping "SWEET GEEZUZ" will stop the pain soon?
E) Get off your thumbs and take a walk to the mound to give your pitcher a break, some support, and check to see if he's OK, not DONE from a long day in the heat?

I go for the popcorn. :)

ShaimOnYou

10-24-2014, 07:17 PM

I go for the popcorn. :)

LMAO.

Unfortunately, that just may be what Donnie did too.

What he DIDN'T do was what any REAL manager would have done. GO TALK TO HIS PITCHER.....GIVE HIM A BLOW while BREAKING the other teams RHYTHM!! My GOD, is this so difficult to figure out?

He had NO ONE up in the bullpen. Worse yet, he didn't get anyone UP in the bullpen. He just left Kershaw out there....withering in the heat. It was a complete HORROR movie playing out right before our eyes.

And it was a SEQUEL from Doh!-nnie's hit movie released in October 2013!!!

What he should have done was go out there and ask Clayton how he felt. After receiving the status quo answer, Don Flatulencly should have left him in, given him a swap on the rump and said "Go get em", then walked back to the dug-out, his visit vaporizingly enhanced in Kershaw's memory with every step...."prfffft....prffft....prfffft".

And on the VERY NEXT HIT, Don should have gone out there and PULLED HIM.

PERIOD.

THAT'S WHAT A MANAGER DOES.

HE MANAGES.

But when you're a complete GOOF, and you don't know what you're DOING, you mess up like this. You leave your ace vulnerable because you don't have anyone warm in the pen. You leave yourself no choice but to watch your ace DIE. It DEMORALIZES THE TEAM. Kershaw was SPENT. He had DONE HIS JOB! He had a 6-2 LEAD!! It's not Clayton's job to CHOOSE WHEN he should be RELIEVED!! It's the MANAGERS.

And Doh-head DON left him in to get PUMMELED, relentlessly, until he coughed up the lead. My LORD are you kidding ME??? THEN Doh!-nnie treks out to the mound (PFFFFFFT...PFFFFFT...PFFFFFT) and PULLS HIM(???), too little, too late, and smelling a little more. AFTER the game is thoroughly DESTROYED, debris all over the field, then he seals the deal by handing the ball to a ROOKIE who in short order gives up a hit, then a 3-RUN BOMB??? An 8-RUN 7th INNING in the home opener of the NLDS when we were WINNING 6-2 !?!?!???!! KERSHAW DIDN'T DESERVE THIS FATE. Neither did this Dodger team.

This is what Don Mattingly does. He wasn't having a "bad day". He didn't "make a wrong choice" at one weak moment. He DOES THIS on a REGULAR BASIS. Anyone can win with a GREAT team. It's what a manager does with one that has issues, how he manages the PROBLEMS, that separates the good managers from the bad. This team wasn't BOUGHT and built so that we could all sit around while Donnie Doh-Doh LEARNS on our time...and DIME...how to BECOME a manager. We need a real manager NOW. Go learn in, I don't know, Houston!

Or better yet. MIAMI. That recently vacated of a MANAGER team! :cool:

I don't want to rehash it all again. I could go on for hours about Mattingly mistakes, but why? This tragic situation the Dodgers are in needs to be fixed as soon as possible, because it's not going to change by itself. FIRE HIM FRIEDMAN. At least do YOUR job right!!

Unfortunately, it sounds like the Cubs are the favorite to land Maddon.

slab0meat

10-24-2014, 09:54 PM

I think the real question is why YOU aren't in the running to replace Mattingly. Sounds like you'd have made every correct move in every game.

Sportskansascity

10-24-2014, 10:43 PM

Sportskansascity,

Your comments are very welcome and I appreciate them.

I understand where you're coming from, and to a point I totally agree that a team should have a strong leader ON THE TEAM. But who would that be if there isn't a clear cut player stepping forward in a group of superstars?

The manager. After all, isn't he the one in charge? He needs to step up and motivate. If there is nothing to "motivation", then why all these great scenes in sports movies? Why was Jim Belushi's speech in "Animal House" so popular? Why are there all these people making a living as motivational speakers? Chris Farley's "motivational speaker" on Saturday night live stands as one of their all-time best skit themes. Motivation is important, even to guys who shouldn't need any. If done properly (see "Tommy Lasorda"), it can bond a group of egos together for a common goal.

I was thinking about this very subject earlier in the season, and the two obvious choices (besides Kershaw) to me would have been Matt Kemp or Adrian Gonzales. I gave the nod to the ladder because Kemp still had something to prove coming off two seasons of devastating injuries.

I actually felt the Dodgers NEEDED to name a captain for the very reason you mention. The team NEEDED a leader, and for me Adrian was the logical choice. He is bi-lingual, the teams 3rd of 4th (or 5th) hitter (depending on Mattingly's menstrual cycle) and was the RBI leader of the team (and ultimately as it turned out, MLB).

But it didn't happen. And guess who I blame for that?

I mean, does ANYTHING that should happen ever materialize on this ballclub? DOH!

NOPE. Instead, we get THIS:

I completely disagree that MLB players need a manager to motivate them. I'm not a big Lasorda fan as I believe his "motivation" was fake. Motivation is great for high school and college athletes, but these are grown men (many with families) who have to do well in order to provide for their families and continue their career. I have no clue what you do for a living, but I'm sure your boss doesn't have to get you fired up to go out and do what you do. You have bills to pay and that is your motivation. It is the players job to be a leader in clubhouse and on field. You shouldn't have to name a captain in order for someone to be a leader. Did Larussa motivate? Weaver? (Besides him getting ejected lol), torre, cox? NO! They had leaders and you don't need a "C" on your chest in order to lead people. Talent only gets you so far (as evident of Torre's time in LA). Yes they have more talent now than ever but they need a couple of veterans from within to Step-up and take the team to the next level. I'm sorry but the same will continue to happen regardless of manager if no leadership is shown. Clayton Kershaw is an unbelievable leader but you have to have multiple guys step up who everyone respects and trusts.

PS: I have no clue what an SNL skit has to do with the Dodgers lmao!

Mark17

10-25-2014, 02:04 PM

I completely disagree that MLB players need a manager to motivate them.

I think I disagree. There are good managers and bad managers, and the good ones get the most out of their players.

A lot of Twins players, for instance, give Billy Martin credit for motivating them. Zoilo Versalles, forn instance, was moody and had problems with manager Sam Mele in spring training, 1965, but Martin, a coach, worked with Zoilo (especially his head) and he had a MVP season. As manager, Martin got the most out of Rod Carew in 1969, teaching him how to steal home, which he did 7 times, and created stress on the defense every time he got to third base.

In theory, players at the major league level are already properly motivated, but there are a lot of guys who are moody, temperamental, insecure, lack confidence or have too much confidence, and the good managers know how to get the most out of each player. Ballplayers are professionals but not machines.

Sportskansascity

10-25-2014, 11:33 PM

I think I disagree. There are good managers and bad managers, and the good ones get the most out of their players.

A lot of Twins players, for instance, give Billy Martin credit for motivating them. Zoilo Versalles, forn instance, was moody and had problems with manager Sam Mele in spring training, 1965, but Martin, a coach, worked with Zoilo (especially his head) and he had a MVP season. As manager, Martin got the most out of Rod Carew in 1969, teaching him how to steal home, which he did 7 times, and created stress on the defense every time he got to third base.

In theory, players at the major league level are already properly motivated, but there are a lot of guys who are moody, temperamental, insecure, lack confidence or have too much confidence, and the good managers know how to get the most out of each player. Ballplayers are professionals but not machines.

I agree with your quote about how the role managers can play. I think your version of "motivation" differs from the original authors. He talks about motivational speakers and such and you talk more about learning (in the case of Rod Carew) and helping players get their mind right. The original guy who started the thread makes it sound like it's the managers job to get players fired up and wanting to win. Once again, this is just my opinion so I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, just like in not saying whoever started the thread is right or wrong. Your stories of zoilo and Carew were interesting and I appreciate you sharing them

ShaimOnYou

10-30-2014, 09:04 AM

Congrats to the San Francisco Giants and their fine manager, future Hall of Famer Bruce Bochy, for winning their third World Series championship in 5 years. And they did it this year as a WILD CARD team. I believe even his son will get a ring. How exciting for the Bochy family.

I hope this sticks deep in the craw of Dodger brass. This was our year to win, our championship to lose. And that's exactly what Mattingly did.

I think the thing that will stick out most in my memory of this World Series is the sense of urgency shown by each manager when their pitchers started to falter. Almost without exception, when a pitcher on either team either gave up two hits in a row or walked one batter, the manager, catcher, or pitching coach was making a trip to the mound. Talking. Showing concern. MANAGING the situation. Two winning organizations with sound, solid managers.

And then there's that BumGODner guy. His name's not just stuck up there with Christy Mathewson. It's above it. Three wins in one world series. Yeah, you see that often. Dominance.

This San Francisco team can now be called a dynasty. They earned it.

ShaimOnYou

10-30-2014, 09:24 AM

Coxfan just posted on another thread that Bumgarner was credited by the media incorrectly as being the game three winner. Affeldt was the pitcher of record when the game winning RBI scored.

Bum gets the save. I guess it just seemed like a win because he pitched in 5 innings, the majority of the game. That was one hell of a save.

ShaimOnYou

10-31-2014, 02:27 PM

Wow, the Cubs just fired Rick Renteria. I guess Joe Maddon is going to join the Cubs organization.

Simply horrible news for the Dodgers, IMO. They had a chance to become a championship organization again, and blew it.

No, Smitty, I'm just SMFH. The Dodgers are LOADED with talent. THAT'S why they've been in the play-offs the last two seasons. If you watched the Dodgers on a daily basis, you'd be SYFH at the loses we suffered as a direct result of Mattingly BAD decisions. The team was STILL good enough to win their division. The reason why the Dodgers haven't won it all is because MATTINGLY is LEADING THEM, and his weaknesses are quickly exposed on that stage.

Okay, now you are contradicting yourself.

So the TALENT is what got them to the Playoffs, NOT the Manager, but the TALENT couldn't get them through the playoffs?

If they were good enough TALENT wise to overcome your perceived shortcomings of Don Mattingly to WIN the Division and make the Playoffs, then the TALENT should have been good enough to go all the way regardless of Mattingly.

You can't call it both ways.

That's like the BS that goes on here at Coors Field - Hitters get downplayed for hitting at altitude, but Pitchers aren't given any leeway for pitching at the same altitude.

It has to cut both ways or it's a bogus argument.

Obviously you aren't happy with Mattingly, but - either you have to give him credit for Managing the team to the playoffs, OR you have to give the Talent on the team just as much of the blame for sucking it up in the playoffs.

Just my .02

xpress34

11-06-2014, 09:46 AM

Yes, you only won ONE championship in all those years.

But you MADE IT to 5 WORLD SERIES. That's an accomplishment in and of itself.

Again, you make it hard to take your position seriously.

You say here that the Braves made it to 5 WS and Won 1 in 14 years and that's an accomplishment, but Mattingly has only been at the helm for 4 years and has taken the Dodgers from 3rd to 2nd to consecutive 1st Place finishes and you're ready the destroy him already.

How about giving him 14 years like Cox and THEN talking about who accomplished what.

The more I read your comments, the more you come off as a spoiled child who didn't get their way and when you applaud things like the 14 year totals for Bobby Cox and the Braves while berating Mattingly on a 4 year curve, it sounds more like you truly have a deeper personal issue and dislike for Mattingly as a person.

Attacking him as a Manager is just convenient.

Again, just my .02 based on what you have posted.

3arod13

11-06-2014, 11:32 AM

How about giving him 14 years like Cox and THEN talking about who accomplished what.

I agree! It sometimes takes more time and the many pieces to come together, before the magic can happen.

ShaimOnYou

11-06-2014, 02:48 PM

Smitty (& 3arod13),

You are mixing together bits and pieces of what I clearly stated as separate points into a nice mincemeat pie to state your disagreement with my disdain for Mattingly as a manager. You are certainly entitled and welcome to speak your minds, but please don't tell me I can't have it "both ways" when you are completely redefining the meaning of what I said by combining pieces to illustrate your points. That's simply not true. I'm not having anything both ways nor do I want to.

Yes, the talent of the Dodgers won their Division, DESPITE Don Mattingly. But look who won the World Series AGAIN! The well-managed San Francisco WILD CARD Giants. Why? Because, it is my position, the Dodgers fell asleep in critical situations in the NLDS when a REAL MANAGER needed to make some tough calls. So they lost. Mattingly doesn't understand what managerial skills are needed in the play-offs, where 162 games won't help to spread out and "mask" mistakes. All the talent in the world doesn't work when your manager can't manage in short do-or-die series. Remember, these "players" aren't robots, they're human. Sometimes they run out of gas and need to be removed from action. Without the right guy performing that task, it's DOOMSVILLE.

Next, comparing Mattingly to Cox is a joke, IMO. Bobby Cox didn't have the SAME PLAYERS for the 14 year period we were all discussing. He won with different rosters. Bobby Cox is a Hall of Fame manager. His consistency in winning was unmatched by anyone in his era.

He only won 1 World Championship because the Atlanta Braves ownership never supplied him with an "open checkbook" to buy players like the Dodgers have with Mattingly. But furthermore, and what's getting lost in this discussion, is that Bobby Cox never made decisions during the heat of battle that grossly caused the Braves to LOSE a game. And FAILING to act as a manager is the same thing as acting but under bad choices. Both can cause a team to FAIL.

Don Mattingly has been given a tremendous team of talent. He has shown he can't "manage" it to win the big one. Not even enough semi big ones! I know, because I have watched him "mismanage" this team of talent on several occasions from the Left Field Pavilion at Dodger Stadium, up close and PERSONAL.

I will state again for the record that the ONLY CHANCE the Dodgers have of winning a World Series here in Los Angeles over the course of the next few years (enter your own amount of years, I don't care. But I am basically referring to the roster of talent they have here and now in my discussion), is to FIRE him and hire someone who actually has electrode activity sparking between the ears. He will not win a World Championship as a manager here in Los Angeles, PERIOD. He doesn't possess the ability to lead, motivate, or make the tough decisions a REAL MANAGER needs to. Any team can have a popular-with-the-players "buddy-buddy" manager with his players. That won't win CHAMPIONSHIPS, however.

And if you guys don't agree with me that the two losses Clayton Kershaw suffered in the post season this year aren't a direct reflection of Mattingly's failure to act, his incompetence as a manager to "handle the urgency and moment", then I certainly won't ever convince you otherwise. We simply see things differently.

I just know that what I saw in the 2014 World Series was two SOLID managers MANAGING the pitching to a TEE. As soon as one pitcher showed ANY sign of lost control, as soon as a pitcher walked ONE batter, there was a trip to the mound, and activity in the bullpen. There was "MANAGING" going on. Great, solid, competent, urgency-filled MANAGING for all to witness. And it was a great World Series that went 7 because of it.

It is my contention those things aren't present with Dandy-Donnie, hovering at the bottom step of the dugout. Just fizzled wires and smoke coming from the collar. And walks of disgust to the mound to remove a pitcher long after he should have, after the damage was done. And the "disgust" I'm referring to is from the Dodger FANS, not Don. He's not conscious enough to understand what just happened.

I'm standing by my prediction, and it's really not hard to do. When a buffoon is driving, a crash is soon to follow. The Dodgers are crashing every year. It's painful for Dodger fans to know before it happens that we're doomed to lose year after year with Don at the helm. Winning the Division because the team is so loaded over the course of 162 games is inevitable. But even THAT is in jeopardy with Don (seeing as it took until the last three games of the year to lock it up). If he steps deeper in it next year and actually loses the Division, then I would expect his immediate firing.

But even if we keep winning our Division, I'm not going to back away from my position. I predict this thread will relive itself year after year, with colorful pictures of Don's pathetic post-game interviews while he tries to explain why the Dodgers lost again. (Remember Donnie's "pout-fest" post season interview while sitting uncomfortably far away with arms crossed from Ned Colletti as they stumbled through Mattingly's unhappiness that he wasn't under contract?) The only chance to fix this if for Dodger brass to acknowledge their HUGE mistake of handing Mattingly an extension after he blew the National League Championship Series in 2013 to the Cardinals , and just FIRE HIM ALREADY. If they hadn't given him that gift after he HANDED away game one, arguably changing the WHOLE atmosphere of the series, we would have been able to sign Joe Maddon. Wow, what could have been. Probably three World Championships over the next 4 years. But now we'll never know.

3arod13

11-06-2014, 04:06 PM

Smitty (& 3arod13),

You are mixing together bits and pieces of what I clearly stated as separate points into a nice mincemeat pie to state your disagreement with my disdain for Mattingly as a manager. You are certainly entitled and welcome to speak your minds, but please don't tell me I can't have it "both ways" when you are completely redefining the meaning of what I said by combining pieces to illustrate your points. That's simply not true. I'm not having anything both ways nor do I want to.

Yes, the talent of the Dodgers won their Division, DESPITE Don Mattingly. But look who won the World Series AGAIN! The well-managed San Francisco WILD CARD Giants. Why? Because, it is my position, the Dodgers fell asleep in critical situations in the NLDS when a REAL MANAGER needed to make some tough calls. So they lost. Mattingly doesn't understand what managerial skills are needed in the play-offs, where 162 games won't help to spread out and "mask" mistakes. All the talent in the world doesn't work when your manager can't manage in short do-or-die series. Remember, these "players" aren't robots, they're human. Sometimes they run out of gas and need to be removed from action. Without the right guy performing that task, it's DOOMSVILLE.

Next, comparing Mattingly to Cox is a joke, IMO. Bobby Cox didn't have the SAME PLAYERS for the 14 year period we were all discussing. He won with different rosters. Bobby Cox is a Hall of Fame manager. His consistency in winning was unmatched by anyone in his era.

He only won 1 World Championship because the Atlanta Braves ownership never supplied him with an "open checkbook" to buy players like the Dodgers have with Mattingly. But furthermore, and what's getting lost in this discussion, is that Bobby Cox never made decisions during the heat of battle that grossly caused the Braves to LOSE a game. And FAILING to act as a manager is the same thing as acting but under bad choices. Both can cause a team to FAIL.

Don Mattingly has been given a tremendous team of talent. He has shown he can't "manage" it to win the big one. Not even enough semi big ones! I know, because I have watched him "mismanage" this team of talent on several occasions from the Left Field Pavilion at Dodger Stadium, up close and PERSONAL.

I will state again for the record that the ONLY CHANCE the Dodgers have of winning a World Series here in Los Angeles over the course of the next few years (enter your own amount of years, I don't care. But I am basically referring to the roster of talent they have here and now in my discussion), is to FIRE him and hire someone who actually has electrode activity sparking between the ears. He will not win a World Championship as a manager here in Los Angeles, PERIOD. He doesn't possess the ability to lead, motivate, or make the tough decisions a REAL MANAGER needs to. Any team can have a popular-with-the-players "buddy-buddy" manager with his players. That won't win CHAMPIONSHIPS, however.

And if you guys don't agree with me that the two losses Clayton Kershaw suffered in the post season this year aren't a direct reflection of Mattingly's failure to act, his incompetence as a manager to "handle the urgency and moment", then I certainly won't ever convince you otherwise. We simply see things differently.

I just know that what I saw in the 2014 World Series was two SOLID managers MANAGING the pitching to a TEE. As soon as one pitcher showed ANY sign of lost control, as soon as a pitcher walked ONE batter, there was a trip to the mound, and activity in the bullpen. There was "MANAGING" going on. Great, solid, competent, urgency-filled MANAGING for all to witness. And it was a great World Series that went 7 because of it.

It is my contention those things aren't present with Dandy-Donnie, hovering at the bottom step of the dugout. Just fizzled wires and smoke coming from the collar. And walks of disgust to the mound to remove a pitcher long after he should have, after the damage was done. And the "disgust" I'm referring to is from the Dodger FANS, not Don. He's not conscious enough to understand what just happened.

I'm standing by my prediction, and it's really not hard to do. When a buffoon is driving, a crash is soon to follow. The Dodgers are crashing every year. It's painful for Dodger fans to know before it happens that we're doomed to lose year after year with Don at the helm. Winning the Division because the team is so loaded over the course of 162 games is inevitable. But even THAT is in jeopardy with Don (seeing as it took until the last three games of the year to lock it up). If he steps deeper in it next year and actually loses the Division, then I would expect his immediate firing.

But even if we keep winning our Division, I'm not going to back away from my position. I predict this thread will relive itself year after year, with colorful pictures of Don's pathetic post-game interviews while he tries to explain why the Dodgers lost again. (Remember Donnie's "pout-fest" post season interview while sitting uncomfortably far away with arms crossed from Ned Colletti as they stumbled through Mattingly's unhappiness that he wasn't under contract?) The only chance to fix this if for Dodger brass to acknowledge their HUGE mistake of handing Mattingly an extension after he blew the National League Championship Series in 2013 to the Cardinals , and just FIRE HIM ALREADY. If they hadn't given him that gift after he HANDED away game one, arguably changing the WHOLE atmosphere of the series, we would have been able to sign Joe Maddon. Wow, what could have been. Probably three World Championships over the next 4 years. But now we'll never know.

I'm not sure how you took my comment as if I was questioning and or attacking what you have been saying. I only quoted his one comment, which I agree with in general. Not related to your specific situation. However, sorry if I came across in that way.

ShaimOnYou

11-06-2014, 11:13 PM

I'm not sure how you took my comment as if I was questioning and or attacking what you have been saying. I only quoted his one comment, which I agree with in general. Not related to your specific situation. However, sorry if I came across in that way.

Tony,

No apology necessary. I just saw you were agreeing with Smitty's Cox time table, so I included you in the mix. It's all good. I like opinions that differ from mine. It makes the discussion fun. But I would hope fabrication of what I was saying by combining bits and pieces wasn't coming into play.

All I'm saying is, if Don Mattingly is still coaching the Dodgers for the next 10 years, then our "Last World Championship win" will be at 36 years. Ain't gonna happen with this clown!!

xpress34

11-07-2014, 11:50 AM

I would hope fabrication of what I was saying by combining bits and pieces wasn't coming into play.

How is 'QUOTING' - verbatim I might add - what you wrote, a fabrication?

I did not change any of your words or statements, but you have IN FACT given ALL of the credit to the TALENT on the team and ALL of the blame to Mattingly.

That is an INDISPUTABLE FACT. Just because all of your statements weren't in the same post on this thread doesn't change the fact that they all came from YOU.

Regardless of your dislike, hatred or whatever term you want to use for Mattingly, the old idiom remains:

You win as a TEAM and you lose as a TEAM. So all of the success and all of the failure can be equally shared by both Mattingly and the Talent.

I know you'll never see it that way - and there's no guarantee that a different Manager is going to get anything different out of this team.

On another note, as a fan of baseball in general - and a collector of memorabilia and autographs, I can tell you that both the Dodgers and the Giants are two of the top teams of Prima Donnas out there.

Your boy Matt Kemp was personally responsible for changing how we can or cannot get autographs at Coors Field by filing a grievance with MLBPA because it bothered him that he was dropped at the gate and had to walk to the clubhouse and possibly be bothered by people asking for autographs, so now the cabs and all drive right past right up to the fenced in backside of the stadium. And it's not the walking that's the issues, it's the fans.

How do I know this? Because this same jackwad walks out after games (ignoring everyone) and walks 15 blocks back to the hotel.

Last time I saw him treat fans nice was at Spring Training when his film crew as there doing a documentary. When the cameras were rolling, he was smiling and hanging out with fans. As soon as they went off - forget about it.

Either, Kershaw, etc.... all the same way. Only nice guys I've met from the Dodgers are Mattingly, McGwire, Lopes and Scott Van Slyke.

Sorry to get off track, but just wanted to share that about your team - part of why I rather enjoyed watching them go down in flames in the playoffs. But I digress.

The point of the last few paragraphs is that there is no 'team chemistry', just a bunch of highly paid athletes who only care about themselves out there just like so many other teams.

ShaimOnYou

11-07-2014, 01:34 PM

How is 'QUOTING' - verbatim I might add - what you wrote, a fabrication?

I did not change any of your words or statements, but you have IN FACT given ALL of the credit to the TALENT on the team and ALL of the blame to Mattingly.

That is exactly what I am saying Donnie Baseball HAMSTRINGED the Dodgers with his handling of the pitching staff, in particular the handling of the STARTERS.

That is an INDISPUTABLE FACT. Just because all of your statements weren't in the same post on this thread doesn't change the fact that they all came from YOU.

Regardless of your dislike, hatred or whatever term you want to use for Mattingly, the old idiom remains:

You win as a TEAM and you lose as a TEAM. So all of the success and all of the failure can be equally shared by both Mattingly and the Talent.

TOTALLY disagree. The Dodgers were WINNING or TIED in EVERY game in that series. It was MATTINGLY'S ACTIONS that caused the outcome.

I know you'll never see it that way - and there's no guarantee that a different Manager is going to get anything different out of this team.

A different manager will ABSOLUTELY get something different out of this team: WINS in the POST SEASON. Because they won't HAMSTRING the team with ridiculous PITCHING SNAFU'S like Mattingly does on a regular BASIS, It's IMPOSSIBLE to be more INEPT at it than DONNIE is.

On another note, as a fan of baseball in general - and a collector of memorabilia and autographs, I can tell you that both the Dodgers and the Giants are two of the top teams of Prima Donnas out there.

You can pretty much say that about any professional sports team or athlete these days. There are always exceptions. Probably best to leave this to another discussion.

Your boy Matt Kemp was personally responsible for changing how we can or cannot get autographs at Coors Field by filing a grievance with MLBPA because it bothered him that he was dropped at the gate and had to walk to the clubhouse and possibly be bothered by people asking for autographs, so now the cabs and all drive right past right up to the fenced in backside of the stadium. And it's not the walking that's the issues, it's the fans.

How do I know this? Because this same jackwad walks out after games (ignoring everyone) and walks 15 blocks back to the hotel.

Last time I saw him treat fans nice was at Spring Training when his film crew as there doing a documentary. When the cameras were rolling, he was smiling and hanging out with fans. As soon as they went off - forget about it.

Either, Kershaw, etc.... all the same way. Only nice guys I've met from the Dodgers are Mattingly, McGwire, Lopes and Scott Van Slyke.

Scott Van Slyke IS one hell of a guy, isn't he? And Davey Lopes has always been one of my favorites. Mark McGwire? Where would he be if at this point in history he WASN'T nice to fans? Think about that one...

Sorry to get off track, but just wanted to share that about your team - part of why I rather enjoyed watching them go down in flames in the playoffs. But I digress.

Understood. I like to see the guys/teams I don't like (for numerous reasons) crash and burn too.

The point of the last few paragraphs is that there is no 'team chemistry', just a bunch of highly paid athletes who only care about themselves out there just like so many other teams.

Chris

ShaimOnYou

11-07-2014, 01:53 PM

Smitty,

I read through both our comments again, and I'll highlight the major points (as I see it) again. I am in NO way having it both ways. I thought I stated it very clearly, but here it is in simple terms.

Don Mattingly's enormous mishandling of the team substitutions and pitching staff CANNOT be hidden in a best-of-5 or best-of-7 play-off atmosphere.

Over 162 games, SURE! The Dodger talent is good enough to overcome "Donnie Baseball" ineptness and still win their division.

But in the play-offs? We're doomed. That's it. Dodger brass will just have to learn what all us Dodger fans already KNOW over the course of one or two more LOST seasons, and that's a shame.

I'll add this, Smitty. Don Mattingly may very well be one of the nicest guys in baseball. In life in general. But does that mean he should be President of the United States?

He shouldn't be the manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers either. He should be tending to his farm in Indiana. It's hard to mishandle corn stalks.

ShaimOnYou

11-13-2014, 08:28 PM

OK, so Clayton Kershaw dominates this season, wins his third Cy Young in 4 years, then takes home the NL MVP hardware, the first pitcher to do so since Bob Gibson in '68. A mere 46 years in the making for that feat to be accomplished.

But he can't win a lowly play-off game against the Cardinals after leading both games into the seventh? REALLY?

He went 21-3 this year. And the Dodgers get a clump of coal in a burlap sack for Christmas when he appears in the "money games"?

OK, so Clayton Kershaw dominates this season, wins his third Cy Young in 4 years, then takes home the NL MVP hardware, the first pitcher to do so since Bob Gibson in '68. A mere 46 years in the making for that feat to be accomplished.

But he can't win a lowly play-off game against the Cardinals after leading both games into the seventh? REALLY?

He went 21-3 this year. And the Dodgers get a clump of coal in a burlap sack for Christmas when he appears in the "money games"?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............................

WAKE UP DODGER BRASS........FIGURE IT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.
..
...
....
.....
.....
......
Just proof that, like Verlander and his MVP season, Kershaw racked up wins against inferior competition during the season and failed against tougher competition in the playoffs.

ShaimOnYou

11-13-2014, 11:58 PM

Just proof that, like Verlander and his MVP season, Kershaw racked up wins against inferior competition during the season and failed against tougher competition in the playoffs.

Roady,

ROFLMAO!!!!! That's a great one, thanks for the laughs!!

But in case you were being serious, please check out Kershaw's game logs this 2014 season:

Of those three, the Dodgers ending up winning the games against the Angels and Cardinals, lost the one to the Giants.

His three losses this year came against:

Arizona
Cincinnati
Milwaukee

All three of his LOSSES came against NON PLAY-OFF TEAMS.

He was DEAD NUTS GOLDEN against the GOOD TEAMS, winning 100% of his decisions against them ALL.

Pure unadulterated dominance. And Mattingly single-handedly destroyed him in game one's 105 degree heat by letting him die on the mound, and again on three days rest in game four once he showed signs of tiring and his pitches became elevated. KERSHAW DID HIS JOB. HE HAD BOTH GAMES WON. But BUFFOON DON is calling the shots!! Or NOT when he should!!

Downright shameful at the major league level. How the Dodger suits are allowing this to transpire on their clock, and DIME, is absolutely beyond explanation. L.A.'s fan base is disenchanted. I guess we'll have to live through one more disappointing LOSING season in 2015 before they fire the doof.

And we could have had Joe Maddon. This is demoralizing.

Roady

11-14-2014, 03:38 PM

Roady,

ROFLMAO!!!!! That's a great one, thanks for the laughs!!

But in case you were being serious, please check out Kershaw's game logs this 2014 season:

Of those three, the Dodgers ending up winning the games against the Angels and Cardinals, lost the one to the Giants.

His three losses this year came against:

Arizona
Cincinnati
Milwaukee

All three of his LOSSES came against NON PLAY-OFF TEAMS.

He was DEAD NUTS GOLDEN against the GOOD TEAMS, winning 100% of his decisions against them ALL.

Pure unadulterated dominance. And Mattingly single-handedly destroyed him in game one's 105 degree heat by letting him die on the mound, and again on three days rest in game four once he showed signs of tiring and his pitches became elevated. KERSHAW DID HIS JOB. HE HAD BOTH GAMES WON. But BUFFOON DON is calling the shots!! Or NOT when he should!!

Downright shameful at the major league level. How the Dodger suits are allowing this to transpire on their clock, and DIME, is absolutely beyond explanation. L.A.'s fan base is disenchanted. I guess we'll have to live through one more disappointing LOSING season in 2015 before they fire the doof.

And we could have had Joe Maddon. This is demoralizing.

Yawn

xpress34

11-14-2014, 06:44 PM

Yawn

+1

ShaimOnYou

11-14-2014, 08:26 PM

Hey guys,

I welcome the disagreement, really.

But the real yawner here is the fact the Dodgers never had a better chance in history to win a World Series as they did THIS YEAR.

They could have easily beat the Cardinals if their manager had half a baseball brain. He doesn't, so they lost.

They OWNED San Francisco in 2014, and Puig always gets under Bumgarner's skin. The Dodgers would have beat the Giants handily. The opportunity never came because their manager had already led them off the cliff.

And let's just be real: The Kansas City fairy tale went on way longer than it should have. The American League was weak this year.

The table was set. This was the Dodger's year to win it ALL. They just had to GET there.

Enter "DOH"n Mattingly. GOOD NIGHT.

And to the yawners, sweet dreams.

rdeversole

11-14-2014, 09:04 PM

Yawn

+1 Yikes. #nuts

ShaimOnYou

11-15-2014, 05:48 PM

+1 Yikes. #nuts

I get the yawn agreement, but what does "#nuts" mean?

I guess some here think a pitcher can dominate during the regular season, then completely suck when he gets into postseason and that makes sense? If it were true that Kershaw only won all season long vs. inferior teams, I wouldn't have ever started this thread.

Kershaw dominated everyone, all season long.

You guys really think a pitcher who is winning a post-season game 6-2 should be left in after giving up four straight frozen-rope base hits in the 7th inning after pitching 100 pitches in 105 degree heat? I don't know, you think maybe something at that point might give a baseball guy the impression that, something is amiss? Like maybe the stud who had done his JOB....WAS TIRED???

After reviewing the events that led to Kershaw's crooked numbers in postseason play, as I've done here, I am simply arguing the obvious. The whole Dodgers post season experience was "crooked".

In simply pointing out the errors in Roady's statement that Kershaw's dominance was against only "inferior" competition, a statement that was completely inaccurate, I apparently made some of you drowsy. I do apologize. I'm just a Dodger fan sick of watching a great team LOSE directly because of the actions of their ill-equipped manager. Saying "They just didn't perform", or "They just didn't get it done", or "They lost to a better team" doesn't appear to be factual. For the last time (I promise), they were winning or tied in EVERY one of the 4 games they played against the Cardinals through 6 innings. Their starters were awesome. The decisions on how to handle the starters, stunk to high hell.

Chris (not opinionated, just calling out the obvious)

Roady

11-15-2014, 06:31 PM

I get the yawn agreement, but what does "#nuts" mean?

I guess some here think a pitcher can dominate during the regular season, then completely suck when he gets into postseason and that makes sense?

Let's ask Justin Verlander. He says yes.

ShaimOnYou

11-15-2014, 07:44 PM

Let's ask Justin Verlander. He says yes.

I think that was a different situation. I really believe he was injured, and has never been the same.

Roady

11-15-2014, 08:36 PM

I think that was a different situation. I really believe he was injured, and has never been the same.
I will be glad to look at your medical report if you have it.

onlyalbert

11-16-2014, 12:02 AM

Again I say the Cards have his and the Dodgers number! Did you not watch the 2011 WS? Again I say the Dodgers might pay Kershaw, but the Cards OWN him! They brought in the reliever and we spanked him too. Will do it again next year........

ShaimOnYou

11-16-2014, 12:44 PM

Again I say the Cards have his and the Dodgers number! Did you not watch the 2011 WS? Again I say the Dodgers might pay Kershaw, but the Cards OWN him! They brought in the reliever and we spanked him too. Will do it again next year........

onlyalbert,

I watched the entire 2011 World Series. It was one of the best W.S. ever.

I don't remember seeing Kershaw in the 2011 World Series, however. As far as 2014 goes, Kershaw had pinned down your Red Bird's wings with a 2-hitter going into the 7th, leading 6-2. I'd say that was a spanking all by itself. When the WHOLE WORLD (save Dandie-Don) saw Clayton had finally run out gas, the Dodger buffoon manager left him on the vine to die. No mound visit after three straight singles, and no one up in the pen. All game, 105 degree heat. The decision to leave him in until he was pummeled, relentlessly, to the point of losing the lead (on the way to an 8-run 7th), was nothing short of confirmation that this idiot running the troops was deaf, dumb, and blind. Confirmation that his stupidity from the 2013 play-offs was, indeed, all Don was capable of!! As it was, your birds barely hung on to win 10-9, even after that buffoon-for-ages mishandling of our pitching staff. It fries my soul Mattingly wasn't fired following that GAME, let alone the SERIES.

So the Cardinals own Clayton Kershaw, really? A strong manager takes that game for the Dodgers. Hell, I could have managed the Dodgers to a WIN that game. The Cardinals are a sound organization, one of baseball's pride and joy elite franchises, but the Dodgers should have handed them an exit this year. You know it, and I know it, your fanhood aside. You guys got lucky that we have a complete GOOF for a manager.

And I agree with you 100%. With Mattingly driving the ship, you guys will no doubt do it again next year.

Roady

11-16-2014, 01:00 PM

Pretty sad when the best pitcher in MLB, as many believe, can't go past 7 innings in the heat in the playoffs.

Warren Spahn says to tell Kershaw to man up.

slab0meat

11-17-2014, 04:28 PM

I've done a 180 and now really love that this thread stays alive and can be used as evidence one day.

Mark17

12-23-2014, 01:28 PM

Pretty sad when the best pitcher in MLB, as many believe, can't go past 7 innings in the heat in the playoffs.

Warren Spahn says to tell Kershaw to man up.

Right. Mattingly probably thought his best pitcher was man enough to do his job.

I remember 1991, Game 7, Jack Morris taking the mound in the tenth inning. If the manager had tried to take him out of the game, there would've been a physical altercation. And Morris wasn't protecting a huge 6-2 lead either, he was pitching his guts out in a 0-0 tie.

Then there's the famous story of Bob Gibson getting in a little trouble and his catcher, Tim McCarver, starting to go out to talk to him. "Get back there where you belong, the only thing you know about pitching is that it's hard to hit!" Gibson shouted.

Guys like Morris and Gibson loved the pressure. They did their jobs and thrived in tough spots. Instead of blaming Mattingly for Kershaw's failings, maybe Mattingly was just mistaken thinking he had a thoroughbred on the mound who could get his act together.

But apparently, after giving up three straight hits, Kershaw needed a hug that Donnie didn't provide. That might make Donnie a poor parental figure in the dugout, for his more insecure players, but going with your ace, holding a 4 run lead, doesn't sound so dumb to me.

onlyalbert

12-23-2014, 09:52 PM

Ohhhhhh boy here we go! Hahaha

BaseballNutz

12-24-2014, 05:20 PM

Right. Mattingly probably thought his best pitcher was man enough to do his job.

I remember 1991, Game 7, Jack Morris taking the mound in the tenth inning. If the manager had tried to take him out of the game, there would've been a physical altercation. And Morris wasn't protecting a huge 6-2 lead either, he was pitching his guts out in a 0-0 tie.

Then there's the famous story of Bob Gibson getting in a little trouble and his catcher, Tim McCarver, starting to go out to talk to him. "Get back there where you belong, the only thing you know about pitching is that it's hard to hit!" Gibson shouted.

Guys like Morris and Gibson loved the pressure. They did their jobs and thrived in tough spots. Instead of blaming Mattingly for Kershaw's failings, maybe Mattingly was just mistaken thinking he had a thoroughbred on the mound who could get his act together.

But apparently, after giving up three straight hits, Kershaw needed a hug that Donnie didn't provide. That might make Donnie a poor parental figure in the dugout, for his more insecure players, but going with your ace, holding a 4 run lead, doesn't sound so dumb to me.

Never heard that Gibson story before, and I'm still laughing.

I highlighted two comments you made above and would like to share my thoughts as an outside disinterested 3rd party. I'm not taking sides here (although being a Giants fan I will admit I enjoyed it :) ), but I can sympathize with the frustration of the original poster, and Dodger fans in general.

Kershaw in the end did fail for sure. But Mattingly is the manager. And if he can't figure our when his ace needs to be relieved, then who?

Anyone can criticize Kershaw for losing, tell him he's not a clutch player, even personally insult him if they so desire, but at the end of the game it's the team that suffers the loss. Is it Kershaw's fault they lost because he's not Bob Gibson or Jack Morris? Mattingly wasn't managing Bob Gibson or Jack Morris. And Mattingly failed to act on a situation that was out of control.

I think anyone would agree that going with your ace with a 4 run lead is the safe way to play it. But to watch him give up multiple hits until the lead was relinquished? Again, is that Kershaw's fault? Or the manager's, the guy in charge?

I would also add that starting off a play-off series that way is extremely damaging to the team. It's hard to get up off the mat after taking a punch like that. Apparently the Dodgers owners don't feel it was their managers fault. He's still there. 2015 should shed some answers.

Dave

Mark17

12-24-2014, 06:22 PM

Kershaw in the end did fail for sure. But Mattingly is the manager. And if he can't figure our when his ace needs to be relieved, then who?

If Kershaw composes himself and gets the next couple of batters out, he gets credit for being a tough, gritty competitor, and Mattingly gets credit for staying calm and showing faith in his ace.

If Kershaw fails, as he did, then Mattingly is blamed for, basically, not being able to see into the future.

Here in Minnesota, Tom Kelly, who won the Series in both 1987 and 1991, is considered the best manager we've ever had, largely because he had a calming influence on his teams. When asked why he stuck with Jack Morris through 10 innings of Game 7 of the 1991 World Series, he shrugged his shoulders and said, "Why not, it's only a game."

I'll take the manager who stays calm and has confidence in his superstar players to be the leaders they are being paid to be, over the managers who panic and think it's their job to personally win games by putting reliever after reliever into the game like chess pieces.

Gene Mauch, one of my least favorite managers of all time, was the latter. He considered it HIS job to win games, and over-managed his way through a very long, pennantless career. When you have good players, sit back and let THEM win the game for you.

Again, if I've got a 4 run lead and my ace on the hill, I let him take care of business (unless of course he gets injured or the pitching coach tells me he detects something wrong with his motion.)

BaseballNutz

12-24-2014, 09:17 PM

Mark17,

Let me see if I understand where you're coming from.

-The key to winning is never relieve your ace.

-A manager with no foresight will still win world championships as long as he stays calm.

-Those 3-time Cy Young no-stamina MVP ace slackers who rattle easily need not worry when they fail because their calm manager can always reach into their bucket and pull out the plentiful Magic Puckett Ride-a-Long Shoulder to win (those things are simply amazing!)

Finally, when playing chess, don't use any of your pieces. Just let the king win for you on his own. And if he fails, bah, it was just a game.

How'd I do? ;)

Mark17

12-25-2014, 06:19 PM

Mark17,

Let me see if I understand where you're coming from.

How'd I do? ;)

Nutz, You did pretty well. A direct hit would've been something like:

"Mark, you're amusing yourself by keeping the discussion going, playing devil's advocate, just to see if you can get a reaction out of Shaim or someone else..."

;)

Roady

12-25-2014, 10:07 PM

If you are looking for Shaimonyou to respond it isn't going to happen.
It says "banned" under his name. The last post I saw from him before it disappeared was about auction houses bidding practices.

suicide_squeeze

03-14-2015, 02:36 PM

Even Will Ferrell hates Don Mattingly, who can't stand to allow some good fun to continue in the name of charity.

Poor Will doesn't know that Don's M.O., to pull a pitcher while he's having a perfect outing.

So here we are....another year, another early exit for the team with the largest payroll in MLB.

Mattingly is once again on the "hot seat". And rightfully so. As most of you saw, the Dodgers, leading the Mets 2-1 with deGrom pretty much wobbling on the mat, made one of the most unforgivable mental blunders in the history of post season baseball. It was the 4th inning. Daniel Murphy singled in his at-bat, leaving him 2-for-2 in the game. So...on first with one out, Duda stepped into the box.

Someone in the Dodger organization, presumably Mattingly, called for the now infamous "shift" with Duda batting. I say presumably because I can't imagine the guy has enough firing electrodes upstairs to come up with that on his own. But the stupidity of it would fit, so I'm not sure who was behind it. I'm assuming it was a team effort led by the little Sabermetrics clowns that Dodger brass bought into somewhere along the line. This group of number pushing idiots likely influenced the decision to adopt this great shift strategy (SMH).:rolleyes: So over to shallow right field our third baseman Justin Turner went, in his designed position between A-Gone and Howie Kendrick. Corey Seager, our rookie shortstop called up just a month prior, slid over closer to second. Dead pull hitter set-up. Nice call Friedman, or Mattingly, or whoever!!

Greinke was a bit too careful with Duda, a guy who during this series couldn't hit sand if he fell off a camel in the middle of the Sahara...and Greinke walked him.

Rendering the shift a complete waste of time. Do you think the Sabermetrics geniuses crunched numbers on what happened next? The "shift", in all it's futility in practice, quickly became a more momentous play in the series than the "slide".

As Murphy jogged to second, and Duda started his trot to first, the Dodgers went comatose, making absolutely no effort to get back to their normal positions while the Mets runners took their bases. Time out had not been called. The world watched as Murphy, a guy who had been killing the Dodgers physically the entire series, now showed them just how mentally unprepared skipper Mattingly had the "West Coast finest". He hit second in stride and sprinted on to an unmanned third base, easily setting himself up to NOW be scored on a simple fly ball.

Which is of course, like a horror movie us Dodger fans keep having replayed for us over and over the past three seasons, exactly what happened. Mattingly's brain failures as manager led to the perfect presentation of "Murphy's Law".

And that brings up a whole other can of stink. The next batter, d'Arnaud, hit a lazy fly ball down the right field line...in FOUL TERRITORY, yet deep enough to maybe score the run. Without as little as a glance at home plate, Andre Ethier ran over...and CAUGHT IT. :eek: In foul territory! The tying run scored, with no throw to home. Instead, the throw went to second to hold the runner on first. In catching that ball, the baseball world saw that the Dodgers had evidently been trained to TRADE an OUT for a RUN. Good, right? Err....maybe if you were leading by 4 or 5 runs!!!!

In game 5 of a 5 game series, facing no tomorrow should they lose, consciously deciding to make a catch that scores a run while standing in foul territory....is an absolute disaster. If you guys are all going to jump at me with "Andre made that decision on his OWN. HOW is that MATTINGLY'S fault!??"

Here's how...

A month ago, I was attending a game between my Dodgers and the Angels at Anaheim Stadium. Chris Heisey, one of our young power-hitting outfielders who was called up a few times during the season and at roster expansion time, was playing left. It just so happens the exact same scenario played out that game. With one out, men on first and third, a fairly deep fly ball was hit down (this time) the left field line. Chris ran it down, but did a very smart thing. As he approached the ball, he realized it was deep enough to score a run. So he stepped aside and let it bounce in foul territory and into the stands. He consciously chose to not let that run score. As he turned to jog back to his position, he gestured with his hands back at the dugout in a manner of asking "Did I do the right thing? Is that what you guys want from me in a situation like that?" Obviously, he made that choice on his own. He wanted confirmation he did what was expected of his team. It was also obvious that that scenario hadn't been a topic discussed during work-outs or practice since Heisey was brought to L.A. HE had to make his own decision.

The interesting part is not what happened next in the Angels game. The interesting part is that Mattingly and his coaching staff had been introduced to this exact type of play, at a time less serious, and gave them an opportunity to devise a team philosophy on how to handle that exact scenario should it ever arise again. Like...maybe at a critical time in the POSTSEASON!?

And what do you know?

Back at game 5, when Andre caught the ball, and threw it in to second, I noticed something that stuck in my mind. Something very telling. He jutted out his left hand in front of himself with his index finger and pinkie extended, signaling two outs. But he did so in a manner that made it seem like he himself disagreed with having to make that catch, so he emphasized the fact in disgust that yeah, we got two stupid outs now, but the score was tied! A great pitching duel, tight and for all the beans...and we just gave them a free run to tie the game?

Andre should have never had to make his own decision, and apparently didn't based on his actions. If body language means anything, he acted on instruction, even though it ate at his very soul.

I don't think Andre makes that catch unless he was instructed to. I think that had something to do with that well-televised rant at his manager in the dugout during the game. I'm not saying the rant was directly because of that play, but I do believe it added to Andre's frustration as to how the team is being managed. You can just SEE the players are done with him. Kershaw sure is. He has gotten into it with Don several times this season. When the players don't respect their own manager, you have a problem. When the players can see their chances of winning are being hurt....well, you have a disaster.

The Dodgers had an opportunity to teach their players what to do in that exact scenario. If Andre lets that ball drop, apparently as they would have done in Cincinnati (Heisey came from the Reds), then the Dodgers would still have runners on first and third, and a shot at a double play, which would negate the run from scoring should they get it. In Cincinnati, they aren't giving anyone a free run, by God.

More importantly, if the mental snafu doesn't happen on the shift, the fly ball is caught. If Murphy tags to third, no run has scored yet. The next batter, Conforto, grounded out to short. We gave them a run for nothing. And if Andre hadn't caught that foul fly ball, maybe we get the double-play ball to get out of the inning even AFTER the mental snafu.

Isn't trying to keep the other team from tying the game, better than absolutely MAKING SURE they tie the game??

But there are no efforts to win, no sense of urgency being shown by Mattingly in his managerial style. Just "Lefty vs. Righty" brainless sabermetrics managing, no matter who's calling the shots. Let's CHANGE the LINE-UP on a daily basis, sitting some of our hottest players in the process! Let's treat em ALL like a group of second stringers!! If I'm a manager for a big market team, and I'm being controlled by strings attached to my arms and legs by a Friedman-run GM group who thinks they know better on paper how to manage a live baseball team, then I have no self respect anyway. I should just move on and let this experiment crash short of a Championship as it has perpetually done in the past. Whichever way you cut the cake...Mattingly must go.

These are the kinds of things that end seasons. The lack of BASIC preparedness and lack of leadership, the failure to plan and play out every scenario so your players know what to do when faced with every play possible on a baseball field!....rests souly on the shoulders of Don Mattingly the manager. These issues and how they are dealt with is what separates the good managers from the bad. The winners from the losers. Don Mattingly...is a loser. He doesn't possess the skills or ability to prepare a team to win, and certainly doesn't have the basic intelligence to manage a team of the Dodgers stature...a team that is EXPECTED to win.

I'll go one step further. So now we're in the sixth. Still a 2-2 tie. Murphy is up with one out. This guy has been pounding the Dodgers the whole series. He already has an RBI double in the first, a single in the 4th, and both balls he hit off Greinke were scorched. Greinke isn't fooling him at ALL. He's owned the Dodgers to this point, already having hit two home runs off of Kershaw. So what does a good manager do in a tight game like this, facing this scenario? Continue to PITCH to him while sticking your head in the sand and hoping when you come up for air, everything will be smelling like roses??

We all know how that worked out. 3-2, Mets.

How about get up off your butt and yell out to your catcher, "HEY GRANDY!" When he looks over at you, you hold up four fingers and point to first! You TAKE the m'er f'ing BAT OUT OF HIS HANDS. At LEAST go talk to your pitcher, tell him "Everything low and outside, try to get him to chase. If you walk him, you WALK HIM, but this SON-OF-A-B&#@H is NOT GOING TO BEAT US." You show the team that your brain cells are firing, that you support them, that you are ON IT and want to WIN. You actually MAKE A MOVE to HELP THE TEAM. Then pitch the next two batters who you have been getting out all series long (save one home run by Cespedes off a lessor pitcher) in a manner to illicit a double play ball, or strike outs which is exactly what Greinke did again to both.

But back in Donnie Baseball's reality, Murphy is now 3-for-3 and one triple away from a cycle, and your team is down 3-2. These kinds of snafu's, oversights, and missed opportunities to help the team win can escape scutiny during a 162 game season. But when you're in the play-offs....in a short 5-game series no less, there's nowhere to hide when you don't know what you're doing.

It's time, Dodgers. Fire Mattingly. And while you're at it, take a good long look at your "GM" team. This Sabermetrics crap isn't all that. It's a TOOL, and should be considered, but to make it the whole basis of running a large market team??

slab0meat

10-19-2015, 08:28 AM

I was looking forward to this thread's revival.

:rolleyes:

d2ray13

10-19-2015, 10:14 AM

suicide_squeeze; well written, nail on the head.

+1

suicide_squeeze

10-19-2015, 03:12 PM

I was looking forward to this thread's revival.

:rolleyes:

What's wrong meatslab...didn't find the "evidence" you were looking for this year?

You never will. Mattingly should have been fired last year. But the Dodgers organization isn't made up from good baseball guys. It's made up from rich dudes who just want to be relevant, a couple of Sabermetrics geeks, and a basketball player for a front man. That's not exactly a recipe for success.

So another year wasted. Let's see if the Dodgers finally get it. My guess...is not. I'm starting to think it's just a losing organization. Hope I'm wrong.

earlywynnfan

10-20-2015, 06:14 AM

so Squeeze and Shaim are the same person?

coxfan

10-20-2015, 07:45 AM

The sac fly ball looked clearly fair, but started to drift significantly foul while Ethier was looking up. In this world where fans regularly interfere with balls near the stands, it seems some of the Dodger fans there could have helped Ethier out by yelling that it was drifting foul.

I detest the shift, and would favor outlawing it. I hate to think baseball might go the way of football in the 60's, in which position names had to be revised, and revised again, before assuming generic names like 'wide receiver" and "running back" because players moved around too much for old terms like "halfback" to remain meaningful. But if you criticize one manager for using the shift, you'll need to criticize a bunch of them.

slab0meat

10-20-2015, 08:24 AM

What's wrong meatslab...didn't find the "evidence" you were looking for this year?

You never will. Mattingly should have been fired last year. But the Dodgers organization isn't made up from good baseball guys. It's made up from rich dudes who just want to be relevant, a couple of Sabermetrics geeks, and a basketball player for a front man. That's not exactly a recipe for success.

So another year wasted. Let's see if the Dodgers finally get it. My guess...is not. I'm starting to think it's just a losing organization. Hope I'm wrong.

I'm not looking for anything. I don't care. You care. The "evidence" mentioned previously was only in reference to the inevitable trial.

so Squeeze and Shaim are the same person?

Both coincidentally referred to me as "meatslab" ... hmmm? Both are ready to kill over the same "issues". You be the judge.

suicide_squeeze

10-21-2015, 12:09 AM

so Squeeze and Shaim are the same person?

Not any more. I have made peace with the GUU clan.

It's just me and my original name. :)

suicide_squeeze

10-22-2015, 08:22 AM

With mutual kisses and hugs all around, the Dodgers are parting with Don Mattingly (to be announced later today).

That's a start. But I am still wondering how much "free reign" the new manager of the Dodgers will have with the GM team in charge.

Maybe they should just stick a uni on Andrew Friedman and place him in the dugout. He seems to be the one calling the shots.

Lot's of question marks for us Dodger fans, but definitely a good day. At least we've eliminated the obvious problems. Good luck to Don in whatever future endeavor he takes on.

Here's to hoping it doesn't take the Dodgers another three years to recognize needed changes that may actually lead them to the World Series. We were one mental snafu away from playing the Cubs, and they were steamrolled by the team the Dodgers laid the red carpet out for. Another disgusting off season for us to contemplate what could have been.

I see news items saying that the Dodgers are considering Gabe Kapler for the job. Any Dodger fans have feelings about that, good or bad?

Dave Miedema

KGoldin

10-24-2015, 05:37 PM

He was really able to whip those sweathogs into shape, and look at what a star Travolta turned out to be
think Gabe Kapler would be an amazing choice

metsbats

10-24-2015, 06:56 PM

He was really able to whip those sweathogs into shape, and look at what a star Travolta turned out to be
think Gabe Kapler would be an amazing choice

I agree!

slab0meat

10-25-2015, 04:37 PM

LOLz

sox83cubs84

10-29-2015, 09:50 PM

It looks like Donnie Baseball just got hired by the Marlins. Any thoughts or comments from our Marlins fans/collectors?

Dave M.

admin_old

10-30-2015, 05:40 AM

I see news items saying that the Dodgers are considering Gabe Kapler for the job. Any Dodger fans have feelings about that, good or bad?

Dave Miedema

Should we just start the thread now?

Gabe Kapler's Disgrace

sox83cubs84

11-01-2015, 10:30 PM

The latest reports indicate that the Dodgers are now considering Darin Erstad.

Dave M.

suicide_squeeze

11-02-2015, 08:12 PM

Should we just start the thread now?

Gabe Kapler's Disgrace

Now THAT'S funny!!! :)

suicide_squeeze

11-02-2015, 08:43 PM

The latest reports indicate that the Dodgers are now considering Darin Erstad.

Dave M.

Hi Dave,

Sorry your Cubs didn't get to and WIN the World Series. Maybe we'll have to go back in time and fix that.

Anyway, in regards to the Dodgers, Andrew Friedman came out and stated they would be interviewing a LOT of prospects for the job. So a parade of prospects could have been predicted. I wouldn't read anything into any one interview at this point. This may go on for awhile.

There's another aspect that I would like to hit on. And...(drumroll please)....it may actually blow your minds that it supports Don Mattingly, albeit ever so slightly. The Dodgers have "bought in" to this this new theory of placing a LOT of importance on Sabermetrics when putting together a roster. I always thought it was a way to find the "undervalued" players who, while not being superstars, still put up pretty darn good numbers under the radar.

Now it seems to be a way of life for the Dodgers. So it raises the question...How much control of the reigns did Donnie really have over the Dodgers? I addressed this on my instagram account as to why I think the Dodgers have additional problems ahead.

I don't want to get into all over again here, but I am convinced Donnie was to some degree a puppet for Andrew Friedman and Farhad Zaidi who were the ones calling the shots on the daily line-up changes. They also no doubt made the call on the "shift" in the NLDS that was responsible...due to the fact Donnie didn't have the Dodgers prepared on how to handle it once the play was over...for ultimately ending the Dodger season.

That right there is reason to worry that whoever the Dodgers ultimately hire as manager, no matter how good of one they end up with, that alone may not fix all the problems. And I'm not talking about personnel problems....yes, they need a new starter, they need to resign Greinke, they need bullpen help...I'm talking about the fact they will need to find a guy willing to be "puppet #2".

I wouldn't take that job. If i'm managing the team, I want control. I don't want some number-crunching geek who has worked out all possible outcomes of lefties vs. righties on a 2-2 count in the bottom of the 6th with RISP and one out. Nope, I want to put a consistent group of guys out there who have been hand picked because of something those numbers can't measure. Heart. Desire to win. Competitive spirit. If a number cruncher is going to trump me in my job, and tell me what to do, they can SHOVE that job in no uncertain terms.

Donnie was just that kind of softy. He made a wonderful puppet. He just couldn't manage worth a darn. So maybe the guy showed he still has a little self-respect by leaving. I know I respect him more for it. He wasn't the right fit (which is a nice way of saying...he sucked). Right now he sports a fairly decent winning record as an MLB manager. Enter the 4-year contract with Miami.

You can kiss that goodbye now, Donnie. You've got one great pitcher over there, a speedster who developed a bat you can reunite with, and one hell of a monster home run masher.

And that's it. Time to live in mediocrity. But good luck to you anyway.

But back to the Dodgers. If these two numbers guys are the wave of the future for the Dodgers, then I don't expect the results to improve anytime soon. And that's unfortunate. Hope I'm wrong. Maybe...ownership will spend the money they need to to win.

xpress34

11-17-2015, 01:46 PM

He was really able to whip those sweathogs into shape, and look at what a star Travolta turned out to be
think Gabe Kapler would be an amazing choice
Ken -

only problem is that was Gabe Kaplan, not Kapler.

- Smitty

ChrisCavalier

11-17-2015, 02:40 PM

Ken -

only problem is that was Gabe Kaplan, not Kapler.

- Smitty
Hey Smitty,

I have a sneaking suspicion that Ken was aware of that fact.

On a related note, your post reminded me of the character in the series '30 Rock' that wasn't able to recognize sarcasm. If I remember correctly, they said it was because he was from Canada. Did anyone see those episodes? They were pretty funny :)

-Chris

cjw

11-18-2015, 11:02 AM

Hey Smitty,

I have a sneaking suspicion that Ken was aware of that fact.

On a related note, your post reminded me of the character in the series '30 Rock' that wasn't able to recognize sarcasm. If I remember correctly, they said it was because he was from Canada. Did anyone see those episodes? They were pretty funny :)

-Chris

Chris, I am a Canadian...and I don't compute ????? :)

sox83cubs84

11-18-2015, 02:52 PM

The Sporting News reported that the Dodgers job is down to 2 people: Gabe Kapler and Dave Roberts. Bud Black apparently pulled out of the running after he received what he considered a lowball offer from Dodgers management.

Dave M.

suicide_squeeze

11-26-2015, 12:53 AM

Anyone here believe Dave Roberts will actually have control of making the Dodgers line-ups, pinch-hitting decisions, and pitching changes during the game? I believe that if he does, the Dodgers can only get better.

But something's telling me the orders will be coming in from the executive box upstairs, which is why they threw an insulting offer to Bud Black. They really didn't want a "real" manager. They wanted a guy who would just be happy with the position.

I hope I'm wrong. But something just ain't sitting well with me. If you are trying to find a good manager, and it's down to Bud Black, Dave Roberts, or that guy from Welcome Back Kotter....how in the word do you let Bud Black escape?

admin_old

11-27-2015, 08:53 AM

Erstad was the other person in the final four. Two of the final four self select out? Something in the process is turning people off.

KGoldin

11-29-2015, 05:29 PM

This is the thread that keeps on giving
No doubt it will be active until at least the end of next postseason

suicide_squeeze

12-01-2015, 12:52 AM

I'm kind of scratching my head over this one...

There is a rumor (substantiated so it's now fact) that the Dodgers were discussing a straight up trade with the Braves....Joc Pederson for pitcher Shelby Miller. Both All-Stars this past year.

But that was based on the first half. Miller ended up 6-17. Joc couldn't hit a dead mosquito on the sidewalk with a swatter after the All-Star break. One "headache" tossed out for another?

Only problem is...Joc is talented and has unlimited upside once they re-tweak his swing. He's also a pretty dang good center fielder. Shelby Miller is a good solid pitcher, and would reverse that record with the Dodger line-up scoring him some runs...something Atlanta never did for him. He would help the Dodgers, especially in light of the fact Dodger ownership appears to have sold out us Dodger fans by not taking care of biz...which is to add another star-caliber starter to the rotation.

But Joc is supposed to be one of the Dodgers future stars, part of their equation of "getting younger". He came up to the bigs as their #1 prospect. The only thing certain to have gotten younger in the Dodger org...is the clowns in the front office playing "GM Team". I'm not liking it.

I don't believe this trade will take place. It's probably "a back-up plan" should everything else they're working on, fail. There's still Price and Cueto available.