If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

He said "should" and "usually" I don't see an "always" in there. If he said you "should always question" then you'd be correct.

How do you know which absolute statements have exceptions unless you question them all? How do you know which guns are loaded unless you check them all? I was simply following his advice and questioning his absolute statement.

No I was not. You are a liar and a bad person.

What was the condition you were referring to and what was the cure you were referring to? Simply calling me a liar isn’t defending your position at all.

Apples and oranges. Driving is necessary for many. Killing people isnt. Also, driving does not serve the purpose of killing people whereas execution does.

Driving isn’t necessary at all, many people don’t drive. So you are saying it is ok to risk the lives of innocent people so you can drive a car but God forbid you execute someone who was convicted by a court of law of a capital crime? That doesn’t make a wink of sense. Not only this, but do you not support having a prison system at all because we may lock an innocent person up for the rest of their life? I think you’re the one who is inconsistent on this issue; I will always stand up for innocent life.

I must have missed it. Can you perhaps post the link that says that?

“n a typical ectopic pregnancy, the embryo adheres to the lining of the fallopian tube and burrows into the tubal lining. Most commonly this invades vessels and will cause bleeding. This intratubal bleeding hematosalpinx expels the implantation out of the tubal end as a tubal abortion. Tubal abortion is a common type of miscarriage.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy

Also, can you tell me what you think should be done about an ectopic pregnancy that has not miscarried and is at the point in it's development where it is threatening to burst the fallopian tube?

Let the pregnancy take its natural course, there have been cases of both mother and baby surviving the ectopic pregnancy. It’s not a doctor’s job, nor should it ever be, to start deciding to definitely end one person’s life in order to possibly save another’s. We should be spending all of our time and effort searching for ways to prevent these sorts of pregnancies.

Total DepravityUnconditional ElectionLimited AtonementIrresistible GracePerseverance of the Saints

“n a typical ectopic pregnancy, the embryo adheres to the lining of the fallopian tube and burrows into the tubal lining. Most commonly this invades vessels and will cause bleeding. This intratubal bleeding hematosalpinx expels the implantation out of the tubal end as a tubal abortion. Tubal abortion is a common type of miscarriage.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy

Let the pregnancy take its natural course, there have been cases of both mother and baby surviving the ectopic pregnancy. It’s not a doctor’s job, nor should it ever be, to start deciding to definitely end one person’s life in order to possibly save another’s. We should be spending all of our time and effort searching for ways to prevent these sorts of pregnancies.

I am sorry but this statement is preposterous.
You obviously don't fully appreciate what an ectopic pregnancy is.

It essentially is any pregnancy that isn't in the Uterus.
97% of the time the ectopic pregnancy is the fallopian tube which is smaller than a drinking straw. How do anticipate this pregnancy working?
Yes there are a few report FEW reports of this happening outside the uterus but in the abdominal cavity where a baby survived.

In some stable cases(or ones where they don't know where it is) they watch it and pray that the fetus terminates itself. No one in their right mind expects the fetus to be carried to term.

So you are telling me that if your wife or sister all of a sudden came up with vaginal bleeding and abdominal pain was rushed to the ER found to have an ectopic pregnancy in the fallopian tube.
Given the option of life saving surgery vs. the high possibility of tubal rupture and death(where the fetus has only an infinitesimal chance to survive anyway). You guys would walk out?

“n a typical ectopic pregnancy, the embryo adheres to the lining of the fallopian tube and burrows into the tubal lining. Most commonly this invades vessels and will cause bleeding. This intratubal bleeding hematosalpinx expels the implantation out of the tubal end as a tubal abortion. Tubal abortion is a common type of miscarriage.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy

That does not mean most ectopic pregnancies are resolved that way, which is the way you phrased it earlier. Nice try though.

Let the pregnancy take its natural course, there have been cases of both mother and baby surviving the ectopic pregnancy. It’s not a doctor’s job, nor should it ever be, to start deciding to definitely end one person’s life in order to possibly save another’s. We should be spending all of our time and effort searching for ways to prevent these sorts of pregnancies.

Which means allowing a fetus to grow until it rips open the fallopian tube. At that point you do what?

So you are telling me that if your wife or sister all of a sudden came up with vaginal bleeding and abdominal pain was rushed to the ER found to have an ectopic pregnancy in the fallopian tube.

Given the option of life saving surgery vs. the high possibility of tubal rupture and death(where the fetus has only an infinitesimal chance to survive anyway). You guys would walk out?

Really?!?!?!

Yes of course, there’s a chance they both could survive and that’s the decision that has to be made. If someone came up to you and said, “Here’s the situation, your wife might die, she might not, but if we kill your baby, she still has a chance of dying but she probably won’t die, but your baby definitely will die.” You’d seriously kill your baby in that situation? You’d be crazy! You have to choose the only option that gives them both a chance to live and that’s what I said I’d choose.

That does not mean most ectopic pregnancies are resolved that way, which is the way you phrased it earlier. Nice try though.

You highlighted the wrong part of the quote, you missed the part where it said that most of these types of pregnancies cause bleeding, and this bleeding results in a natural abortion. Nice try though.

Which means allowing a fetus to grow until it rips open the fallopian tube. At that point you do what?

Take whatever surgical measures give both the baby and the mother a chance to live, performing an abortion doesn’t give the baby a chance to live so that is not an option, why do you put the life of the mother above the life of the baby? That makes no sense at all. We need to develop methods of preventing these types of pregnancies; unfortunately allowing abortions makes that not a priority anymore because there’s no longer a need for it.

You highlighted the wrong part of the quote, you missed the part where it said that most of these types of pregnancies cause bleeding, and this bleeding results in a natural abortion. Nice try though.

The article clearly says half of ectopic pregnancies resolve without treatment. The other half end with surgery, meaning an abortion, to prevent catastrophic bleeding and death.

Nowhere is there an option where the pregnancy comes to term. Either the body resolves it or the fetus continues to grow until it rips open the fallopian tube, at which point it is still too undeveloped to survive in an incubator.

In other words, the baby always dies. Whether the body does it or a doctor does it before it rips open the fallopian tube or after it does, the result is the same.

Take whatever surgical measures give both the baby and the mother a chance to live, performing an abortion doesn’t give the baby a chance to live so that is not an option, why do you put the life of the mother above the life of the baby? That makes no sense at all. We need to develop methods of preventing these types of pregnancies; unfortunately allowing abortions makes that not a priority anymore because there’s no longer a need for it.

There is no chance for the baby to live. The cases of babies surviving tubal pregnancies are completely unheard of, which given that these pregnancies are not exactly rare, is really saying something. It is not putting the life of the mother above the baby, it is deciding whether the mother will live at all. You think her life should be put in grave danger for no reason.

I actually agree more research money should be put into this. I am, in fact, generally against abortion. But these are fairly easy exceptions only an absolutist without any common sense could take issue with. That's why I chose it.

Listen to me I will repeat this as simply as I can because either you mistook my post or you are simply being difficult or blinded by your faith whatever.
I am not an Ob/gyn but I am a licensed board certified physician.

If a loved one has an ectopic pregnancy in the fallopian tube(where 97% of them are).
The odds that the fetus survives are zero to.0000001%. I will refrain from saying it has never happened because I don't have proof of that, but it is about as close to never as I can get.

Fetal survival in that situation is not even considered. The cases of fetal survival are extremely rare and exclusively outside the fallopian tube. Perhaps one case every 5 years.

If untreated and simply allowed to rupture the odds of a major complication to your loved one is very high. The specific odds of death would depend on when you would choose to seek medical attention.
If you don't seek medical attention then the mortality risk is probably very high 90%. People simply don't survive untreated massive internal bleeding.

So if treated the odds of maternal survival are very good.
If untreated then the odds of maternal survival are very very low.

Listen to me I will repeat this as simply as I can because either you mistook my post or you are simply being difficult or blinded by your faith whatever.
I am not an Ob/gyn but I am a licensed board certified physician.

If a loved one has an ectopic pregnancy in the fallopian tube(where 97% of them are).
The odds that the fetus survives are zero to.0000001%. I will refrain from saying it has never happened because I don't have proof of that, but it is about as close to never as I can get.

Fetal survival in that situation is not even considered. The cases of fetal survival are extremely rare and exclusively outside the fallopian tube. Perhaps one case every 5 years.

If untreated and simply allowed to rupture the odds of a major complication to your loved one is very high. The specific odds of death would depend on when you would choose to seek medical attention.
If you don't seek medical attention then the mortality risk is probably very high 90%. People simply don't survive untreated massive internal bleeding.

So if treated the odds of maternal survival are very good.
If untreated then the odds of maternal survival are very very low.

The fetus is not going to survive this regardless.

Is Statler seriously arguing medicine with an actual MD...?

If I could take your pain and frame it, and hang it on my wall,
maybe you would never have to hurt again...