Please vote if you think the MOA should have a more proactive stance with BMW NA

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View Poll Results: Should the MOA have a proactive roll in presenting its members concerns to BMW NA?

Voters

146. You may not vote on this poll

I would LIKE the MOA to be an advocate for its members concerning possible manufacture defects.

5839.73%

I would NOT like the MOA to be an advocate for its members concerning possible manufacture defects

Would it be possible to use what "finally" happens here as a model for my interactions with: American Honda, Harley Davidson, Walmart, GM, Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears, Yamaha, my dentist, Kroger's, my urologist, local movie theater, Tire Barn, Macy's, Fred's Bait Shop, IRS, NSA, NASA,...and this list goes on....who have not handled specific situations, as I thought proper, at one time or another in the past? I need a "large" group of people to pressure these folks and others to resolve issues in a more favorable manner, to my benefit. Heck, I'd even pay extra to get this "group" machine up and running.

My first compliant would be against the local movie theater whose popcorn is way too salty....AND THEY KNOW IT! I've asked for numbers on how many people have complained about this, but they will not share it...I know they keep track. At $6.00 a "pop" this isn't right.

.............. I can see any number of problems with people looking to get their out of warranty bike fixed for free because they feel something should not have broken in the first place. "Yes, my bike is 14 years old, but it only has 3,400 miles on it and I should be compensated." ...............

Would it be possible to use what "finally" happens here as a model for my interactions with: American Honda, Harley Davidson, Walmart, GM, Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears, Yamaha, my dentist, Kroger's, my urologist, local movie theater, Tire Barn, Macy's, Fred's Bait Shop, IRS, NSA, NASA,...and this list goes on....who have not handled specific situations, as I thought proper, at one time or another in the past? I need a "large" group of people to pressure these folks and others to resolve issues in a more favorable manner, to my benefit. Heck, I'd even pay extra to get this "group" machine up and running.

My first compliant would be against the local movie theater whose popcorn is way too salty....AND THEY KNOW IT! I've asked for numbers on how many people have complained about this, but they will not share it...I know they keep track. At $6.00 a "pop" this isn't right.

Advocacy implies an adversary and there is no reason to make BMW NA an adversary.

I do not admire European firm culture re quality. Germans are great pre planners and engineers but crappy and slow reactors to things that don't go according to plan, unlike Americans or Japanese, for example. But that's no reason to set up an adversary relationship.

However, MOA is too pollyannaish for my taste, especially compared to BMW CCA, the car equivalent. (Whose members wasted few words when they found certain M3 bodies split simply when putting track tires on a car for play, for example. Too few spot welds in the unibody, long ago fixed by BMW)

As I said elsewhere, I suggest an annual issue of ON with a section on reliability and reported defects for existing models. Sort of like Consumer Reports. Data could be from forum or member survey.

Both members and BMW NA would then be free to do with the info as they wish. Draw any or no conclusions, take corrective or no action, etc etc. No legal pressures, just facts...

I'd like to see MOA perceived as the authoritative source of consumer oriented info on BMW bikes but its publications contain little such info with the exception of tech articles by Glaves. Parkhouse, etc. Even decent reviews of new models don't happen- what ON calls a review is mostly a parroted press release and not at all worthy of what ought to be an expert comparison by brand experts. The forum is the place where such details get discussed, sometimes..

Advocacy implies an adversary and there is no reason to make BMW NA an adversary.

I do not admire European firm culture re quality. Germans are great pre planners and engineers but crappy and slow reactors to things that don't go according to plan, unlike Americans or Japanese, for example. But that's no reason to set up an adversary relationship..........

100% correct. Have you ever asked NA why they choose to be adversarial?

Great suggestion racer7. Kantuckid is calling for an Ombudsman position.

Originally Posted by racer7

Advocacy implies an adversary and there is no reason to make BMW NA an adversary.

I do not admire European firm culture re quality. Germans are great pre planners and engineers but crappy and slow reactors to things that don't go according to plan, unlike Americans or Japanese, for example. But that's no reason to set up an adversary relationship.

However, MOA is too pollyannaish for my taste, especially compared to BMW CCA, the car equivalent. (Whose members wasted few words when they found certain M3 bodies split simply when putting track tires on a car for play, for example. Too few spot welds in the unibody, long ago fixed by BMW)

As I said elsewhere, I suggest an annual issue of ON with a section on reliability and reported defects for existing models. Sort of like Consumer Reports. Data could be from forum or member survey.

Both members and BMW NA would then be free to do with the info as they wish. Draw any or no conclusions, take corrective or no action, etc etc. No legal pressures, just facts...

I'd like to see MOA perceived as the authoritative source of consumer oriented info on BMW bikes but its publications contain little such info with the exception of tech articles by Glaves. Parkhouse, etc. Even decent reviews of new models don't happen- what ON calls a review is mostly a parroted press release and not at all worthy of what ought to be an expert comparison by brand experts. The forum is the place where such details get discussed, sometimes..

I have been asking for the MOA to set up a forum page that will act as a clearinghouse for all this information. That would include service bulletins, recalls and a place for members to post repeated problems with their bike. The ombudsman could compile this information and be aware of possible defects or repairs that need to be addressed. List the information by models so it will be easy to access.

I also suggest have a page with all the BMW NA corporate contact information so we can quickly bypass the 1-800 customer service reps if we are not getting satisfaction from them.

If I wound have had the direct contact information to BMW NA then I would not have wasted 3 years dealing with customer service reps.

I am going to call the MOA office this morning and see if I can find out if the bikes for the raffle are donated to the MOA by BMW NA. If that is the case then it makes sense why no one wants ruffle any feathers at BMW NA because you "Don't bite the hand that feeds you".

If the bike are donated then I applaud the MOA leadership for getting the bikes for free to help raise money for the foundation. If that is true then you will not see a push from the MOA to create a ombudsman or advocate position for obvious reasons.

I want to make sure that I point this out. From my 25 minute conversation with Greg I found him to be a very nice, honorable and capable leader and I appreciate him taking the time to speak with me. So don't jump on me for asking if the bikes are donated by BMW NA and if that influences the MOA relationship with BMW NA.

Thanks again to Greg and all the moderators for the time consuming work. The MOA and forum would not work with out you.

So you won't back me in my battle with the popcorn salters? Gee I thought you'd be first in line....so much for this "association".

P.S. I did do better....I voted 'NO'!

LOL, there's a local restaurant that, to this day, my wife refuses to return to. When our oldest kids were 5 and 8, back in the late 80's, we went to this little local bar restaurant. They had FREE popcorn! Yea! The kids lapped up that salty goodness like it was...free, because it was. What was NOT free, however, were soft drink refills. We were too naive to realize this until we got the tab. The kindly waitress would just keep coming back and filling the kids' glasses..and ringing them up.

So, yeah, I'll join you in your fight, dang it, crap like this is STILL going on after all these years!