Just want to make sure I got this right. You guys are saying that I'm basically out of luck until the bug is fixed in a "possible" quarterly release of the legacy drivers. That sucks. Looks like I'm stuck in one resolution until that happens. Windows 7 is nice, but had I know this I might have just kept with the old OS. Thanks for all the input. If anyone has anymore ideas, I'll be happy to try them out.

junedog123 wrote:Just want to make sure I got this right. You guys are saying that I'm basically out of luck until the bug is fixed in a "possible" quarterly release of the legacy drivers. That sucks. Looks like I'm stuck in one resolution until that happens. Windows 7 is nice, but had I know this I might have just kept with the old OS. Thanks for all the input. If anyone has anymore ideas, I'll be happy to try them out.

Yes, what you just wrote is correct.AMD has really f--ked up with their ATI drivers for Windows 7.

While the instructions in the initial post worked for me on my DX10 4890 in WIN 7 x64, there is a few issues in some games. For some reason in games like Prey and Quake 4 is causes the mouse to show no movement. What a drag.

WORKAROUND FOR OWNERS OF LEGACY DX9 ATI PRODUCTS:Install the 8.x series Catalyst driver for Windows Vista onto Windows 7.The driver works fine on Windows 7, and the scaling/stretching/aspect-ratio settings actually work correctly in the CCC.

Example:I installed an older Catalyst driver for Vista 64, dated 1/22/2008, version 8.453.0.0 of the actual driver according to Device Manager, version 2008.0122.1519.27310 according to "About..." in the Catalyst Control Center. The scaling/stretching options work fine under Windows 7 x64.

Welch wrote:Hmmm, I wonder if using a previous version for DX10 Mobile users will fix this issue for us... any word on that Code?

I don't know. I don't have a notebook with a DX10 ATI device. But, my desktop machine has a Radeon HD 4890 which is DX10 and uses the new non-legacy driver. I'll try an older driver on it and see if it restores the GPU scaling features there.

But clearly, the results from my notebook with the DX9 device and the older driver proves that this is NOT something that Windows 7 was responsible for breaking, because the older 8.xx Catalyst's scaling/stretching options work fine on Windows 7. There must be a bug in the newer 9.x Catalyst drivers.

c0d3h4x0r wrote:WORKAROUND FOR OWNERS OF LEGACY DX9 ATI PRODUCTS:Install the 8.x series Catalyst driver for Windows Vista onto Windows 7.The driver works fine on Windows 7, and the scaling/stretching/aspect-ratio settings actually work correctly in the CCC.

Example:I installed an older Catalyst driver for Vista 64, dated 1/22/2008, version 8.453.0.0 of the actual driver according to Device Manager, version 2008.0122.1519.27310 according to "About..." in the Catalyst Control Center. The scaling/stretching options work fine under Windows 7 x64.

Did you happen to test 9.1,9.2,9 or 9.3? Also you could probably use a version that wasn't quite that old. Try 8.12 and see if scaling is broken.

I wonder what's going on with this scaling issue then. Both ATI and nVidia are affected and it's been several months now since Windows 7 went RTM. Plus, they broke it for Vista as well

ironically on the Windows 7 RC, I didn't have any of these problems. My games would play no matter what, and I didn't even install the ATI drivers. Now however I'm having so many issues. I'm running Windows 7 on an iMac and I just reinstalled Windows 7 after hearing about apple's new Windows 7 bootcamp 3.1 support. However, I'm still have the same issues with my smaller resolution games getting centered with black bars all around. What pisses me off the most is that it worked in the RC! Please, don't make me go back to Windows XP again. HELP!

bAtER wrote:ironically on the Windows 7 RC, I didn't have any of these problems. My games would play no matter what, and I didn't even install the ATI drivers. Now however I'm having so many issues. I'm running Windows 7 on an iMac and I just reinstalled Windows 7 after hearing about apple's new Windows 7 bootcamp 3.1 support. However, I'm still have the same issues with my smaller resolution games getting centered with black bars all around. What pisses me off the most is that it worked in the RC! Please, don't make me go back to Windows XP again. HELP!

bAtER wrote:Yeah I have. The resolution thing doesn't work for me at all. As soon as I hit apply it just goes back to the centered option that it had before.

Assuming you were using my workaround: the grayed-out option doesn't usually reflect what you chose before when you were in a lesser resolution. For example, I switch to 1440x900 down from 1680x1050 in order to be able to pick aspect-ratio scaling. Then when I go back to 1680x1050, the scaling option is greyed out on "scale to full panel size", even though if I use a lower resolution, it's scaling as intended it to be.

There is a fixed amount of intelligence on the planet, and the population keeps growing :(

I'm still thoroughly confused at what freaking driver I should even be looking for to download for this laptop. From reports by CodeHax about, he says that the Mobility 2600 series is supported by windows 7, and is not apart of the legacy drivers. However if I go to Toshiba's website there is not Win7 drivers for it, and to get drivers for the ATI 2600 mobility I had to say Mobility Radeon (so that it wouldn't lead me back to Toshiba's website) and I instead get a screen for a 9.9 download.... which once you start to download it says "Beta" at the end of it as though its still for the Win 7 RC Beta...... WTF? Damnit, if I were running ATI and knew this **** to be an issue... I would have popped out and made it public on the website "HERES WHAT YOU CAN DO..... HERES WHAT YOU CANT" Its sad to think that they can have some of the best hardware out, but have the worst driver support. Thats one thing i miss about having an Nvidia card, easy drivers.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

Welch wrote: Thats one thing i miss about having an Nvidia card, easy drivers.

Care for what you wish... I had this same exact scaling issue with my 8800GTX and *no* workaround at all. At the time Vista had come out and Nvidia stopped giving a damn about XP users for the better part of a year. So in the end I've seen both manufacturers drop the ball with this. And Nvidia's record with laptop drivers isn't any better or worse. I have here a laptop with a 6200-Go for which I couldn't find any W7 drivers that had acceleration. Had to revert to XP. All in all I consider both ATI and Nvidia just as good/bad with their driver support.

There is a fixed amount of intelligence on the planet, and the population keeps growing :(

Welch wrote:I'm still thoroughly confused at what freaking driver I should even be looking for to download for this laptop. From reports by CodeHax about, he says that the Mobility 2600 series is supported by windows 7, and is not apart of the legacy drivers. However if I go to Toshiba's website there is not Win7 drivers for it, and to get drivers for the ATI 2600 mobility I had to say Mobility Radeon (so that it wouldn't lead me back to Toshiba's website) and I instead get a screen for a 9.9 download.... which once you start to download it says "Beta" at the end of it as though its still for the Win 7 RC Beta...... WTF? Damnit, if I were running ATI and knew this **** to be an issue... I would have popped out and made it public on the website "HERES WHAT YOU CAN DO..... HERES WHAT YOU CANT" Its sad to think that they can have some of the best hardware out, but have the worst driver support. Thats one thing i miss about having an Nvidia card, easy drivers.

Just remember this for mobility drivers:HD2xxx and on - Use Mobility Modder with appropriate Catalyst version for your Windows from AMD GAME site.X1k and below - Use Mobility Modder with appropriate legacy Catalyst version for your Windows (Windows 7 users will need to resort to using Vista versions as AMD does not seem to have any plans to update the legacy drivers for Windows 7 support).

Just ignore OEM VGA drivers; they tend to be outdated and not any different from AMD drivers.

Yeah, its just lame that you have to use the mobility modder to run something... very lame.

Ohh , I didn't mean that Nvidia doesn't have problems with their driver releases and bugs/fixes that need to be made (including this issue). Just that you simple get one of like 2 or 3 drivers, and BAM thats it. No figuring out which version or whether your using a mobile chip, just all unified. Sure the file is larger but who really cares with connections averaging 10mbps and hitting 15 no problem these days. You can download that 100-200 megs in a matter of a minute. I'm assuming that nvidia's drivers are still like this, no need to use Mobile drivers vs desktop parts right? Thats something that with ATI can easily throw off a person when you consider Legacy, non-legacy, still in Beta but "will be supported... eventually" and then non Win7 supported for both mobile and non-mobile and god knows what else... then show drivers and catalyst... uhhh. Still looking forward to a revision on how ATI does their drivers. How about this... go Microsoft style. You download a 1mb little file that automatically detects what card you have EXACTLY and then sends back to the server to download/install the proper driver. Their current drivers you download already look for detection on whether your card matches the driver version your attempting to install.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

Welch wrote:Yeah, its just lame that you have to use the mobility modder to run something... very lame.

Ohh , I didn't mean that Nvidia doesn't have problems with their driver releases and bugs/fixes that need to be made (including this issue). Just that you simple get one of like 2 or 3 drivers, and BAM thats it. No figuring out which version or whether your using a mobile chip, just all unified. Sure the file is larger but who really cares with connections averaging 10mbps and hitting 15 no problem these days. You can download that 100-200 megs in a matter of a minute. I'm assuming that nvidia's drivers are still like this, no need to use Mobile drivers vs desktop parts right?

That's not quite accurate. nVidia has similarly dropped support for older chips in their current drivers. Current drivers support only back to GeForce 6xxx series. If you have an older card, you will have to settle using a driver from 2006 since nVidia simply drops support for old chips entirely from their drivers. AMD at least keeps their older products on this legacy product support cycle, although I can't see them developing a Windows 7 WDDM 1.1 compliant driver since Vista WDDM 1.0 work fine in Windows 7.

On the mobile front, nVidia was on the same boat as AMD up until recently. They too said that mobility product support was done through the OEM and so did not provide any drivers. In fact, ATI was technically the first one to offer mobility drivers for their products as long as your laptop manufacturer was on the supported list of OEMs; nVidia had no such thing. It wasn't until a couple of months ago when nVidia decided to completely ignore OEM restrictions and began providing mobility ForceWare, which is separate from the desktop ForceWare.

I have kind of a problem, i want to scale my resolution to be at native 800 x 600 meaning enabling gpu scaling and using centered image to have black bars in Counter Strike Source, ive tried everything and it doesnt seem to scale... I enabled gpu scaling and selected centered image it worked for my desktop and had black bars all around but ingame it resize it to full screen size instead of giving me black bars, im using Samsung Syncmaster T220, radeon 4850 card. Summary : Scaling doesn't work in css for me, just on desktop...

On another note, for those of us with this issue... hopefully the new 10.3 mobile drivers will finally fix the scaling issue we are having (one can only hope). Or perhaps one of it subsequent monthly drivers will solve the problem.

As for your CS:S issue, I'd venture to say that you will have to setup a specific Launch Option for CS:S to display border, or play it at actual resolution, or perhaps manually in the launch option tell it to play it at the lower 800x600 resolution.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

By the way........ The 10.3 update DOES in fact fix this issue. I just installed a 10.3 leaked driver, the new CCC and all and Borderlands will not play at lower res and stretched. However, I did notice that it will stretch it almost 100% but with certain resolutions that are not the same aspect it will leave a small border around them, which is perfectly fine. I can run 640x480 if I wish on my 1440x900 screen and it will stretch it whereas before it would make it a REALLY small little bordered window. Just thought everyone should know so you don't bother banging your head against a wall, just wait for 10.3

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

Zoomastigophora wrote:It's actually been this way since ATI adopted a unified driver architecture and called it Catalyst.

It's still non-obvious. I've been using the Catalyst drivers for over 3 years and I never realized that was their numbering system.

Zoomastigophora wrote:AMD currently releases drivers monthly for the regular Catalyst. The legacy drivers are on a quarterly update schedule, but AMD hasn't been very consistent with that so far. We'll see if February brings a new driver for legacy.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. My complaint is with the lack of any recent updates for the legacy drivers. AMD has been incredibly lazy and unhelpful for owners of their legacy products who have upgraded to Windows 7 and hit unforgivably obvious blocking-class bugs like this GPU scaling problem.

Zoomastigophora wrote:It's also unreasonable to dictate a release schedule for WHQL certification as WHQL is not just for graphics drivers and is also not the goal of the program (and not every hardware vendor has the resources to develop and test drivers monthly). It's also not mandatory for hardware vendors to participate in it.

There's nothing unreasonable about it. Either WHQL needs to do FAR more thorough testing on a specific driver release before certifying it, or they need to dictate an ongoing frequent release schedule for the drivers until all known issues are fixed. If a device maker wants to get that WHQL certification and be able to advertise it, then their drivers had better damned well work correctly. There's nothing unreasonable about that.

c0d3h4x0r wrote:It's still non-obvious. I've been using the Catalyst drivers for over 3 years and I never realized that was their numbering system.

Yea, I can understand that, especially since there's no explanation about it anywhere.

c0d3h4x0r wrote:You're not telling me anything I don't already know. My complaint is with the lack of any recent updates for the legacy drivers. AMD has been incredibly lazy and unhelpful for owners of their legacy products who have upgraded to Windows 7 and hit unforgivably obvious blocking-class bugs like this GPU scaling problem.

Agreed. Just putting that info out there for other people who don't follow every little change AMD does to their driver support.

c0d3h4x0r wrote:There's nothing unreasonable about it. Either WHQL needs to do FAR more thorough testing on a specific driver release before certifying it, or they need to dictate an ongoing frequent release schedule for the drivers until all known issues are fixed. If a device maker wants to get that WHQL certification and be able to advertise it, then their drivers had better damned well work correctly. There's nothing unreasonable about that.

You're going to have a hard time convincing Microsoft to do that much tracking and testing for every single IHV. If I'm not mistaken, WHQL is also more about drivers conforming to standard Windows practices and ensuring a base minimum of functionality across whichever versions of Windows the IHV gets certified for. Maybe in the future, we'll see a standardized feature support set like we see with audio and the Intel HD Audio standard.

I suppose as a consumer, I understand where you're coming from, but from a software engineering and business standpoint, there are tradeoffs in engineering time and monetary resources that need to be made. The reason that professional GPU lines cost so much is exactly because they do what you ask for. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending ATI for this specific issue because there really is no reason scaling should be broken, but on the whole I understand that they can't fix every single little bug for time/money/manpower reasons while still adding new features.

Am I right in assuming most people here are running laptops? I'm a little confused, since I'm trying to get aspect scaling working on my Win7 desktop box with my X1800, and people are talking about Mobility Modder.

In any case, thanks to the tip-off by c0d3h4x0r, I tried downloading and installing 8.12 Catalyst, but with no luck. Driver simply didn't seem to want to work with my card. But then it occurred to me, the aspect scaling option is part of CCC, not quite dependent on the driver itself. So I tried installing only CCC and running on the Windows WDDM drivers, and voila! You have aspect scaling on your digital panels! =D (An extra bonus is that you can adjust resolution and other monitor settings within CCC again, though I've found you need to use the Windows Screen Resolution settings as well.)

As a matter of fact, you can even "update" to legacy 10.2 drivers. Just go device manager -> Display adapters -> <your gfx card> -> Driver tab -> Update Driver -> Browse Computer -> Pick from list -> Have disk -> Browse -> <path to driver>. In my case, it was something like this: C:\ATI\Support\10-02_legacy_vista32-64_dd_ccc\Packages\Drivers\Display\LH6A_INF. If you wish to fall back to Windows default driver, pick the driver with (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM) in the name from the list of drivers before you click on the Have disk button.

Now of course, there are some problems; why else would ATI/AMD disable Aspect Scaling in the first place? Here are some that I've encountered.All Driver versionsWith only a single monitor enabled, aspect scaling works 100%You need to untick Enable GPU scaling between each time you change the Image Scaling mode. That, or you need to change resolution before the mode change kicks in.Monitor Refresh rate must be 60Hz (or 59Hz for my monitor for some strange reason). This might explain Everize's CSS problem.

10.2 legacyClone mode always resets to Use centered timingsExtended desktop very flaky, monitors may automatically disable themselves when changing resolution or enabling/disabling GPU scaling. Works fine if both monitors are in naitive res tho. If you encounter this problem and you can't get one of your monitors back on, go to Screen Resolution settings in Windows, set Multiple displays to Duplicate desktop -> Apply -> set Multiple displays to Extend desktop -> Apply.

Now, I can't say for sure if it's like this for all computers; it may actually be a problem with DVI/VGA combos, and some of the dual monitor problems I've encountered may go away entirely if both monitors run off DVI. I did manage to get extended desktop running on 10.2 legacy drivers with Aspect Scaling, but it was static, in the sense that if you/other programs changed resolution, it would default back to full screen stretched.

Feel free to experiment, I've found that getting Aspect Scaling working is a complicated, convoluted and downright confusing dance of fiddling with Image Scaling settings, Screen Resolution settings in Windows and Displays Manager in CCC. Good luck!