The Wall Street Journal Trots Out a Former Chief Scientist for BP to Argue Against Action on Climate Change

As hundreds of thousands of people demonstrate across the world to demand action on the growing threat of climate change, the Wall Street Journal trots out the former chief scientist of BP, one of the world’s top fossil fuel producers, to say Climate Science Is Not Settled.

And the argument boils down to this: roll over and go back to sleep, everyone.

Any serious discussion of the changing climate must begin by acknowledging not only the scientific certainties but also the uncertainties, especially in projecting the future. Recognizing those limits, rather than ignoring them, will lead to a more sober and ultimately more productive discussion of climate change and climate policies. To do otherwise is a great disservice to climate science itself.

Did I mention that the person described by the Wall Street Journal as “leading scientist Steven E. Koonin” was previously the “leading scientist” for BP — the company responsible for one of the worst oil spill disasters in history? I did?

Dr. Koonin was undersecretary for science in the Energy Department during President Barack Obama’s first term and is currently director of the Center for Urban Science and Progress at New York University. His previous positions include professor of theoretical physics and provost at Caltech, as well as chief scientist of BP, where his work focused on renewable and low-carbon energy technologies.

Well, you should also know that Koonin is not a climate scientist. He’s a computational physicist. And this “do nothing” strategy is just the latest in a long line of conservative chicanery.

If there were 97%+ consensus that trickle-down economics was great, and that banning abortion was great, and ending the minimum wage was great, conservative hacks would be shouting that shit from the rooftops.

But because combating climate change means that rich fucks will necessarily have to make less money and/or their preferred pollutants will virtually need to go out of business…nope, that +/- 3% or so, man, we’ve got to make sure those opinions are given the same thoughtful, concerned, reasoned weight as that loud, obnoxious 97%.

These people literally do not give a single fuck about anyone but themselves and their wallets.

You really don’t need to know climatology to deconstruct Koonin’s editorial, though knowing a bit about earth science makes reading his editorial all the more painful.

If you look carefully you can see some standard tactics here, even used by creationists. Note how carefully Koonin substitutes ambiguous words compared to the climate summaries written by climatologists.

Bottom line is that Koonin is pulling a Lomborg here. He gives lip service to being concerned, but then argues that since we don’t know enough we ought not really do what needs to be done.

Hopefully someone will be able to publish a point by point refutal, though getting something printed by the WSJ or other outlets is the hard part, not deconstructing his piece.

Koonin is counting on most readers not really being able to know, for instance, where to find actual sea-level rise data for the 20th century.

He is also counting on people not being able to follow a shell game (as in street magic.) He mentions the variability in surface temperature rise as something that ought to dissuade from taking any action regarding climate change, but that is very subtly mixing two different questions. He also knows most readers don’t understand what is and what is not to be learned about natural variability.

And so on.

The problem here is that the professional obfuscator can accomplish his task in far fewer words than someone who is actually informing on the subject will take, given the complexity of the subject.

Sometimes you have to notice the silences. Where has Dr. Steve Koonin, Under Secretary for Science at the US Department of Energy, been since the Gulf disaster happened?

Koonin was intimately acquainted with the very technologies that have failed so spectacularly on the Deepwater Horizon rig in his former job as BP’s chief scientist. While his current employer, Barack Obama is trying to figure out ‘whose ass to kick’ over the spill, he might find it instructive to zip back to a presentation by Koonin at MIT in 2005, in which we see Koonin-as-oilman boasting of his company’s technological prowess in taking oil exploration and production into the ultra deep waters of the gulf.

In particular, he says that $50 million to bore a hole in the gulf’s seabed will yield a million barrels a day, describing the technical challenges of depth and pressure. A small note on the bottom of his slide reads ‘marine environment creates integrity challenges’ - engineering-speak for ‘accidents likely’.

Hopefully someone will be able to publish a point by point refutal, though getting something printed by the WSJ or other outlets is the hard part, not deconstructing his piece.

Koonin is counting on most readers not really being able to know, for instance, where to find actual sea-level rise data for the 20th century.

He is also counting on people not being able to follow a shell game (as in street magic.) He mentions the variability in surface temperature rise as something that ought to dissuade from taking any action regarding climate change, but that is very subtly mixing two different questions. He also knows most readers don’t understand what is and what is not to be learned about natural variability.

And so on.

The problem here is that the professional obfuscator can accomplish his task in far fewer words than someone who is actually informing on the subject will take, given the complexity of the subject.

Share prices are variable, so it’s not a good idea to invest in the stock market.

Spencer is a signatory to An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming,[30][31] which states that “Earth and its ecosystems - created by God’s intelligent design and infinite power and sustained by His faithful providence - are robust, resilient, self-regulating, and self-correcting”

Well, this fellows piece might make up for it. Normally, I wouldn’t post a link to an article by an anti-fracking activist, but when it comes to BP Martin Porter did his homework. I’ve got to link to the Google Cache, because the direct link isn’t working. I’ll quote the most initally relevant section:
Bad Capitalism: BP

Greenwash

In 1997 John Browne, the dapper CEO of British Petroleum, as it then was, made a speech at Stanford University in which he acknowledged that Climate Change “cannot be discounted”.

Today you’d expect him to go on to suggest that the Pope may very well be Catholic and that bears use the trees for their ablutions, but in 1997 this was big news coming from an oil man.

In the rush to crown Browne as the new Sun King most people ignored the fact he went on to say that “dramatic, sudden” action that “sought, at a stroke, drastically to restrict carbon emissions” would be “wrong”.

For many, it was enough that he had even mentioned Global Warming.

Browne knew what he was doing making that speech, or at least he thought he did. If governments wanted to do something about Climate Change the easiest and simplest thing was to phase out coal fired power stations and replace them with gas. And where would they get their gas from? BP of course.

Three years later Browne spent millions of pounds rebranding BP as “Beyond Petroleum”. He spent rather less money on a factory making solar panels. It was located in California, so the panels it made were too expensive to be commercially viable, but it was conveniently located for photo calls with ‘Governator’ Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Any serious discussion of ISIL must begin by acknowledging not only the scientific certainties but also the uncertainties, especially in projecting the future. Recognizing those limits, rather than ignoring them, will lead to a more sober and ultimately more productive discussion of foreign policy. To do otherwise is a great disservice to the residents of the region.

They’d rather focus on the papier mache than the fact that people are really worried that we’re screwing up the environment beyond the point of no return.

That’s so much easier than accepting that climate change is happening. Let alone doing something about it.

It’s not even clear that doing something about it will actually reduce economic growth since expenditures will be expanding in other places/fields, and the worst that might happen is that we get cleaner air and better infrastructure capable of handling severe weather events in the bargain?

Howard-Browne told “Trunews” host Rick Wiles that America today is no different than Germany under Nazi rule: “We’ve been taken over. We are living in occupied territory. It’s like Nazi Germany in 1933 right now in America. People say, ‘That’s just crazy.’ But no it’s not, it’s fact.”

Howard-Browne claimed that the U.S. government is now building concentration camps and gas chambers “right before our eyes,” including one gas chamber that is currently under construction in Kentucky, as a result of a United Nations/Agenda 21 plot to pave the way for a “one world government” and “the rise of the Antichrist.”
…

Remember, this is the same televangelist who organized a month-long conservative prayer gathering in Washington this year and led a 2012 Republican National Convention prayer rally, both of which drew top GOP and Religious Right figures.

If there were 97%+ consensus that trickle-down economics was great, and that banning abortion was great, and ending the minimum wage was great, conservative hacks would be shouting that shit from the rooftops.

But because combating climate change means that rich fucks will necessarily have to make less money and/or their preferred pollutants will virtually need to go out of business…nope, that +/- 3% or so, man, we’ve got to make sure those opinions are given the same thoughtful, concerned, reasoned weight as that loud, obnoxious 97%.

These people literally do not give a single fuck about anyone but themselves and their wallets.

Your last sentence should be troubling to everyone that is a denier. Caring about your wallet right now is one thing, Not caring about anyone else also must mean not caring for extended family, relatives, future family , etc.

Because if it is going to screw up earth for humans, then it is going to screw up earth for ALL humans…meaning you and yours.

That is some mega denial.

And how does it all fit in with traditional conservative thought? Let’s take defense for example…one of the areas conservatives are willing to spend to protect themselves and the country.

What could be a better defense than to be proactive about sciences and future threats they point out?

Ronnie Raygun spent trillions to bury a future threat, Russia, by spending them into collapse. Why wouldn’t they want to take on climate change as a defense?

A quick look at tomorrow’s headlines has more confirmation that the ‘Better Together’ camps last-minute devolution promises are falling to pieces already. A lot of ‘no’ voters starting to realise they were fooled:

I never been to NYC. I have a lot of friends that live there, they’ve been pestering me for years to get me to visit. I always say “It’s not like I don’t see you” as most, if not all of them visit every winter to go skiing.

re: #45 Aye Pod
Perhaps there will be enough time for detailed investigation of facts necessary to answer the NO voters concerns. One of the first thoughts I had when first hearing about the separation was can the Scotch really support them without outside help.

The worst thing about this is that Koonin actually worked himself into a high position in the federal government with this BS. And people wonder why we’re in deep shit.

One of the major results of the gigantic incestuous (private-media-gov’t) monster called “The Beltway” is that nothing really significant gets done in government without the prior approval of the vested parties. Vested parties meaning those with all the money.

Jimmy Carter installed 32 solar panels on the White House roof when he was president in the late 1970s. When Ronald Reagan took office in 1981, one of his first actions as president was to have the panels, which his chief-of-staff allegedly said Reagan felt were “just a joke,” removed.

Jimmy Carter installed 32 solar panels on the White House roof when he was president in the late 1970s. When Ronald Reagan took office in 1981, one of his first actions as president was to have the panels, which his chief-of-staff allegedly said Reagan felt were “just a joke,” removed.

He orders the White House be turned into the Green House and installs solar, wind, geothermal and all kinds of other technologies as they come on board in every square inch of space of property all the way out to the Mall and makes the whole shebang self sufficient and enough power to generate the Capitol and the entire Washington Mall all the way to lighting Lincoln!

Now that would send a bunch of messages and turn heads into explodey things.

He orders the White House be turned into the Green House and installs solar, wind, geothermal and all kinds of other technologies as they come on board in every square inch of space of property all the way out to the Mall and makes the whole shebang self sufficient and enough power to generate the Capitol and the entire Washington Mall all the way to lighting Lincoln!

Now that would send a bunch of messages and turn heads into explodey things.

Thing is, a bunch of that was already done…by W:

But as famous as the Carter installation — and subsequent Reagan removal — was, it was George W. Bush administration that installed the first active solar electric system at the White House (Carter’s panels were largely symbolic, though they were used for heating water). In 2002, multiple solar grids were installed on the White House grounds. The installation was done quietly, with far less fanfare than Carter’s, but the panels provided energy to several White House operations. According to a New York Times article from 2003, “a grid of 167 solar panels on the roof of a maintenance shed has been delivering electricity to the White House grounds. Another solar installation has been helping to provide hot water. Yet another has been keeping the water warm in the presidential pool.”

I never knew about this; I wonder if the main reason it was done to little fanfare was so that the Big Oil wing of the party wouldn’t give him major shit about it.

I wonder what American socio-political thought will be like in 50 years.

50 years ago, 1964, public life was churning over civil rights, especially of blacks but in general. Pop music was making the turn toward counter-culture. Political parties were in the process of trading their bases.

Now 50 years later we are still arguing over civil rights but with more experience. Nevertheless, progress has been made even with the throwbacks trying to undo that.

50 years from now will the politics of, say, climate change look like today?

If I were to simply guess I’d say we’ll be in an even more reactionary mood than we were immediately post-9/11.

He orders the White House be turned into the Green House and installs solar, wind, geothermal and all kinds of other technologies as they come on board in every square inch of space of property all the way out to the Mall and makes the whole shebang self sufficient and enough power to generate the Capitol and the entire Washington Mall all the way to lighting Lincoln!

Now that would send a bunch of messages and turn heads into explodey things.

Baby steps—Actually, George W. Bush administration installed the first active solar electric system at the White House. In 2002, multiple solar grids were installed on the White House grounds. The panels provided energy to several White House operations.

The Obama administration announced in Oct. 2010 that it would install 20 to 50 solar panels on the residence after a campaign headed by 350.org and solar company Sungevity urged the president, along with other world leaders, to add solar panels to government buildings…

the White House official said the panels will help which will help “demonstrate that historic buildings can incorporate solar energy and energy efficiency upgrades,” and that the panels are estimated to pay for themselves in energy savings within eight years.

My feelings on it are, as I’ve stated many times before: Even you are a Christian the Bible makes clear that God expects us to be good stewards of the Earth. Also Jesus speaks at length about loving others and not doing them harm.

Also, throw out the discussion about WHAT is causing the climate change. Just accept that it’s happening and we can ALL do something about it.

On the “According to rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court, is a public school teacher permitted to read from the Bible as an example of literature, or not?” (correct answer, yes)
26% white evangelicals; 21% white mainline protestants

On the “According to rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court, is a public school teacher permitted to read from the Bible as an example of literature, or not?” (correct answer, yes)
26% white evangelicals; 21% white mainline protestants

As I said, so many have convinced themselves that the Supreme Court bans the Bible. They also believe you can’t pray in a public school. Obviously, they never have heard of Algebra pop quizzes.

Oh no doubt about it. Whether it’s claiming allowing same sex couples to marry will result in concentration camps for conservative Christians or flat out lying about the effects of abortion, the RR’s whole playbook is nothing but fear and lies. Always has been going way back.

So, I have a new toy — a set-top box that gives me hundreds of TV channels from all over the world through my Internet connection. Cost me 900 yuan (About $145) including the first year subscription to premium channels. My Internet at the uni is free, and my connection speed more than ample.

If there were 97%+ consensus that trickle-down economics was great, and that banning abortion was great, and ending the minimum wage was great, conservative hacks would be shouting that shit from the rooftops.

But because combating climate change means that rich fucks will necessarily have to make less money and/or their preferred pollutants will virtually need to go out of business…nope, that +/- 3% or so, man, we’ve got to make sure those opinions are given the same thoughtful, concerned, reasoned weight as that loud, obnoxious 97%.

These people literally do not give a single fuck about anyone but themselves and their wallets.

Sadly, it’s worse than that. Combating climate change does not mean that the rich will have to make less money. What’s bad for the climate is bad for everyone, and vice versa. There’s money to be made in wind, solar, nuclear, efficiency, and even adaptation.

There’s less money to be made in shelling out insurance compensation for hundred-year floods that seem to come every 40 years. Or more often.

Sadly, it’s worse than that. Combating climate change does not mean that the rich will have to make less money. What’s bad for the climate is bad for everyone, and vice versa. There’s money to be made in wind, solar, nuclear, efficiency, and even adaptation.

There’s less money to be made in shelling out insurance compensation for hundred-year floods that seem to come every 40 years. Or more often.

If there were no money in solar energy, the Chinese would not be making PV panels and rooftop water heaters by the thousands.

Sadly, it’s worse than that. Combating climate change does not mean that the rich will have to make less money. What’s bad for the climate is bad for everyone, and vice versa. There’s money to be made in wind, solar, nuclear, efficiency, and even adaptation.

There’s less money to be made in shelling out insurance compensation for hundred-year floods that seem to come every 40 years. Or more often.

There is a pervasive attitude that our wealth and prosperity are reflected directly in the amount of resources we consume, not in the quality of life we derive from them.

And conservationists are portrayed as “environmental whackos” who hug trees, live in lean-tos and wipe their butts with toilet paper.

I just want to see a system in which the true costs of extracting and using a particular form of energy are reflected in the cost, and not hidden by subsidies, secured through military intervention or overlooked by lax regulation.

I was watching my local owned-and-operated Fox affiliate for their nightly news last night and they had video of some security consultant or commentator, presumably from Fox News Channel, saying (more or less) Obama should take his security more serious have the Secret Service blow away anyone that violates security barriers.

Yeah, because the reason Obama has more security threats that Bush has nothing to do with the right-wing media ginning up hatred for a black guy.

Any can you imagine the OUTRAGE!!1! if the Secret Service had killed a mentally ill military veteran on the White House lawn?

First World problems: Spending several minutes writing a long rebuttal to a Randian post on a BBS, only for your power to die to the sound of a muffled boom from down the street just as you prepare to hit the “send” button.

I was watching my local owned-and-operated Fox affiliate for their nightly news last night and they had video of some security consultant or commentator, presumably from Fox News Channel, saying (more or less) Obama should take his security more serious have the Secret Service blow away anyone that violates security barriers.

Yeah, because the reason Obama has more security threats that Bush has nothing to do with the right-wing media ginning up hatred for a black guy.

Any can you imagine the OUTRAGE!!1! if the Secret Service had killed a mentally ill military veteran on the White House lawn?

It’s a safe bet that, had Secret Service shot the guy dead on the White House lawn, the crowd presently portraying Michael Brown as a raging homicidal maniac would have gone apeshit over a soldier being shot dead and demanded the President answer for it.

First World problems: Spending several minutes writing a long rebuttal to a Randian post on a BBS, only for your power to die to the sound of a muffled boom from down the street just as you prepare to hit the “send” button.

Thanks, Dominion Power./////

If you’re in Virginia, I could say: It could be worse, you could have Rappahannock Electric Cooperative.

If you’re in Virginia, I could say: It could be worse, you could have Rappahannock Electric Cooperative.

This is the second time in two weeks that the power has died mid-morning to the sound of something blowing its top down the street, only to come back within half an hour. Of course, it’s only affecting my street, as the streets on either side remained online, so I get the feeling it’s an equipment issue that just doesn’t rate high enough to do more than fix the faults when they cause service to fail.

The Back to the Future films used to be my favorite movies growing up as a kid. Watching them now, I just feel old looking at what the 80s thought the future would look like. It’s a bit like people in the 50s thinking that we’d have moon colonies in the 1990s but people would still dress in suits and ties for everyday events.

It’s interesting how the Russian far-right have been divided by the Ukrainian question. E.g. in this poll, where about 13000 people have voted, the plurality support the “Slavic unity” against the “chauvinist vatniks”, where “vatniks” are those who support the bandits in DNR-LNR. That is, the plurality of the right nationalists are against Putin’s war, which is very surprising.

Cheney: Propaganda! That picture is really of the Baghdad climate march! ///

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Now how can that be? I was sure that the Iraqi people were looking for us to come and save them from ISIS. Are you saying they’d rather we didn’t start sending thousands of US troops back to Iraq to do the fighting for them?!

Now how can that be? I was sure that the Iraqi people were looking for us to come and save them from ISIS. Are you saying they’d rather we didn’t start sending thousands of US troops back to Iraq to do the fighting for them?!

Of course, you can be sure that if the US media does touch on such protests in Iraq itself, they’ll either be granted a split-second mention as “concerns” or instead spun as “extremists” who don’t speak for the majority of Iraqis who desperately want the US to come back. God forbid they actually report that the guy on the street in Baghdad was happy when we left and isn’t looking for the President to undo his “mistake.”

I’m not against IDs in theory, but if the politicians have allowed elections to be held without such IDs all this time, they can’t start demanding them now, all of a sudden. If they want the IDs, they should specify a long period - say 15 years - during which every voter should get a completely free ID. Only then will they be able to demand them without it being disenfranchisement.

The Back to the Future films used to be my favorite movies growing up as a kid. Watching them now, I just feel old looking at what the 80s thought the future would look like. It’s a bit like people in the 50s thinking that we’d have moon colonies in the 1990s but people would still dress in suits and ties for everyday events.

A vote for the Gingrich Hegemony is a vote for Nineties-era moonbase activation.

I’m not against IDs in theory, but if the politicians have allowed elections to be held without such IDs all this time, they can’t start demanding them now, all of a sudden. If they want the IDs, they should specify a long period - say 15 years - during which every voter should get a completely free ID. Only then will they be able to demand them without it being disenfranchisement.

I would be in favor of a (free of charge) ID for every US citizen (for voting purposes) and all legally registered aliens residing there (for purposes of registering a car, using social services, schools, etc.).

It would make things considerably easier for preventing voter fraud and in controlling the flow undocumented immigrants

I’m pissed at Best Buy. I bought a dishwasher from them on Aug 31. The first installation had to be rescheduled because we had a power outage, but then they randomly rescheduled TWICE. I just called the hotline and said “We have the installation scheduled for TODAY and that means I want it delivered and washing dishes TODAY! Do not randomly reschedule without even asking what is convenient for ME.”

Wow so much Teh Stupids in this meme.
You can get a chicken sandwich at a lot of places that are not Chick Fil-A
Most gasoline by the time it has been refined and taken to the pump, is no longer identifiable by country of origin.
However Marathon, Valero & Citgo sell mostly Venezuelan gas

The idea that we (ie democracies) ought to make ID specifically for authentication of one’s vote even works just on the level of political awareness. Bestowing the sacred right to vote with a symbol as functional as a card is a great way to introduce a citizen to the political process and kind of create the opportunity for someone to develop an idea of their own personal political identity, outside of the group mentality. I really think a physical reminder that one has a duty to the state of the nation would help with motivation. Plus, obviously, it would eliminate the potential of voter fraud to actually influence the outcome of an election; whether by actual fraud or enacting legislation to restrict voting rights under the pretense that fraud is actually occurring.

Can you imagine the rollout for such a project, though? End-Timers would be so a-froth.

This is what happens when you let your fantasy militia activities roll over into college football season.

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Those wingnuts idea of ‘defense of the border’ failed as badly as the Panthers’ defense did last night. Though I’d wager the Border Patrol might be easier on the wingnuts than the Steelers were on the Panthers.

Thanks. Are IDs expensive or hard to get in Texas? The article doesn’t say.

From the article:

About 80 Texas counties have no DPS driver’s license office, which could make it difficult for Texans without a driver’s license to get a Voter ID card. Low income neighborhoods in metro areas also have few DPS offices.

The idea that we (ie democracies) ought to make ID specifically for authentication of one’s vote even works just on the level of political awareness. Bestowing the sacred right to vote with a symbol as functional as a card is a great way to introduce a citizen to the political process and kind of create the opportunity for someone to develop an idea of their own personal political identity, outside of the group mentality. I really think a physical reminder that one has a duty to the state of the nation would help with motivation. Plus, obviously, it would eliminate the potential of voter fraud to actually influence the outcome of an election; whether by actual fraud or enacting legislation to restrict voting rights under the pretense that fraud is actually occurring.

Can you imagine the rollout for such a project, though? End-Timers would be so a-froth.

Oh, but it would be so much fun to program the serial number to be 666+SSN … :D

So I’m rewatching BtF II, and the newspaper there mentions Queen Diana. That’s why we can’t have nice flying cars.

Coincidentally, I just watched The Queen on my spiffy new Internet TV set up. The film showed a snippet of an interview Diana did in which she said she doubted she would ever be Queen, because the “establishment” — meaning the Royals* — would never allow it.

Got 14/15 for Team Atheist. Amazingly, the one got wrong was not the Great Awakening question, but the Sabbath one. I’m still kicking myself over that, because I had one of those “I think it’s this, but I’ll bectha it’s that” moments.

It’s only certain strains of Christianity. I don’t remember much babble about it when I was growing up Catholic.

Weird. I grew up Catholic as well, and I was aware of it. However, it’s entirely possible I first learned about it when the first Omen movie came out in ‘77 or so. Our devoutness as Catholics was barely a notch above “Paying lip service”.

What is somewhat analogous are various numerological beliefs, but they’re usually positive or neutral, not “panicky”, like the 666 belief. I mean various things like finding the number 19 in the Koran, Jewish gematria and so on.

Weird. I grew up Catholic as well, and I was aware of it. However, it’s entirely possible I first learned about it when the first Omen movie came out in ‘77 or so. Our devoutness as Catholics was barely a notch above “Paying lip service”.

I’m sure I heard about it, but I don’t remember the priests making a big deal about it at Mass, or much talk about it in Sunday school.

And my devoutness as a Catholic went from me being highly literal and wanting to be a priest as a kid to being a notch above lip service by the time I was a freshman in high school. By the time I graduated I was done.

We can only hypothesize what 666 meant, but the usual hypotheses about Nero being the Beast are plausible.

The rest of the imagery is so consistent with being about Nero’s Rome that I personally consider it obvious. But Christianity has been infected with it’s eschatological foolishness since probably even before the Romans tied him up to a cross. I say before as there was the earlier strains of it in Jewish thought brought back from Babylon that can still be seen in Daniel for example (which then gets twisted even further by the nuts looking to support their ideas of Revelations, wash, rinse, repeat, ad nausum…)

What is somewhat analogous are various numerological beliefs, but they’re usually positive or neutral, not “panicky”, like the 666 belief. I mean various things like finding the number 19 in the Koran, Jewish gematria and so on.

The number ‘19’ also has special significance in the card game of Cribbage.

(It’s the only hand score under 24 that can’t be made. So it’s often used as a ‘joke’ claimed score for a zero hand or crib score.)

The rest of the imagery is so consistent with being about Nero’s Rome that I personally consider it obvious. But Christianity has been infected with it’s eschatological foolishness since probably even before the Romans tied him up to a cross. I say before as there was the earlier strains of it in Jewish thought brought back from Babylon that can still be seen in Daniel for example (which then gets twisted even further by the nuts looking to support their ideas of Revelations, wash, rinse, repeat, ad nausum…)

Dualism is the ultimate curse behind this.

One of the first big differences I found between Islam and what I understood from my (nominally) Catholic upbringing was that while there’s a Satan in Islam, he’s not portrayed as anywhere near as powerful as God.

The rest of the imagery is so consistent with being about Nero’s Rome that I personally consider it obvious. But Christianity has been infected with it’s eschatological foolishness since probably even before the Romans tied him up to a cross. I say before as there was the earlier strains of it in Jewish thought brought back from Babylon that can still be seen in Daniel for example (which then gets twisted even further by the nuts looking to support their ideas of Revelations, wash, rinse, repeat, ad nausum…)

Dualism is the ultimate curse behind this.

Oh yeah, Daniel is another example of the very same phenomenon. For the messianic prophecies there actually describe the 2nd century situation, the Maccabean times. With the Anointed One (christos/moschiach) actually being the high priest Onias.

What is somewhat analogous are various numerological beliefs, but they’re usually positive or neutral, not “panicky”, like the 666 belief. I mean various things like finding the number 19 in the Koran, Jewish gematria and so on.

The idea that we (ie democracies) ought to make ID specifically for authentication of one’s vote even works just on the level of political awareness. Bestowing the sacred right to vote with a symbol as functional as a card is a great way to introduce a citizen to the political process and kind of create the opportunity for someone to develop an idea of their own personal political identity, outside of the group mentality. I really think a physical reminder that one has a duty to the state of the nation would help with motivation. Plus, obviously, it would eliminate the potential of voter fraud to actually influence the outcome of an election; whether by actual fraud or enacting legislation to restrict voting rights under the pretense that fraud is actually occurring.

Can you imagine the rollout for such a project, though? End-Timers would be so a-froth.

Then how many people would be disenfranchised because they lost their ID? If the purpose of this was really to combat voter fraud, it could be done an old-fashioned way, ink a finger of each voter with indelible ink so they can only vote once, or a high-tech way, take a digital photograph of each person as they vote. “Problem” solved, and no voters disenfranchised.

Then how many people would be disenfranchised because they lost their ID? If the purpose of this was really to combat voter fraud, it could be done an old-fashioned way, ink a finger of each voter with indelible ink so they can only vote once, or a high-tech way, take a digital photograph of each person as they vote. “Problem” solved, and no voters disenfranchised.

I could see that digital photos would be a non-starter, given the recent news that the FBI has super-duper facial recognition software. Even Google and Facebook have systems that are pretty darn scary. Voting is supposed to be anonymous, and naysayers could make a reasonable argument that the photos could be correlated to a given result.

Inking the fingers is better, cheaper and already used in many countries, such as India, IIRC.

Inking the fingers is better, cheaper and already used in many countries, such as India, IIRC.

Or, people could accept that the actual incidence of voter fraud is vanishingly small, especially when compared to election fraud of the “boxes of uncounted votes found in Georgia church basement” variety.

I’m not really up on the voter ID issue. Is it that hard to get an ID in some states?

The new rules in Alabama are considered ‘mild’ compared to other ALEC-driven state laws. We are working hard at fitting our GOTV to them, and there is definitely going to be a suppressive effect. For instance,interpretations of the application for a ‘free’ voter ID inform people that requesting ID when you have one of the acceptable photo IDs is finable, or even a Class C felony. The burden will certainly fall on the aged, poor, and rural citizens, as well as those bound to jobs and some religious minorities.

Ironically for AL, the law is useless to the TPGOP in most regions—they dominate the voter rolls completely. It might also flash back on them. Some of the minorities it suppressed (the aged) are part of their base.

Or, people could accept that the actual incidence of voter fraud is vanishingly small, especially when compared to election fraud of the “boxes of uncounted votes found in Georgia church basement” variety.

We’re just very concerned about the possibility of voter fraud because it would defraud us of are vote!!!1

Well, then you know more than you need about the AL law. Bottom line—so far 1800 ‘free’ IDs have been issued statewide.

Another obstacle is the requirement that women get a new card when changing their name through marriage or divorce. The state doesn’t seem to understand its own rules about invalidating the card when moving in or out of state.

Florida’s a nightmare at that time of year (in terms of tickets). That might just be your best price. Several people I know from your neck of the woods just drive it. Miami’s additionally painful though.

(1) A person commits the crime of bribing a witness if he intentionally or knowingly offers, confers or agrees to confer any benefit upon a witness or a person he believes will be called as a witness in any official proceeding with intent to:

(a) Influence the testimony of that person;

(b) Induce that person to avoid legal process summoning him to testify; or

(c) Induce that person to absent himself from an official proceeding to which he has been legally summoned.

Why do I suspect that Chuck’s defense is going to be that he might have promised payment - but never made it.
:p

He’s still screwed.

(1) A person commits the crime of bribing a witness if he intentionally or knowingly offers, confers or agrees to confer any benefit upon a witness or a person he believes will be called as a witness in any official proceeding with intent to:

Just making the offer is a felony in and of itself. No payment required.

It’s always hilarious to watch the party of “small government” talk up its attempts to regulate abortion clinics out of business.

Or “let the market decide”. Convince enough women not to get abortions and the market will cause the clinics to close. But they know they won’t be able to do that in sufficient numbers, so the small government needs to mandate it.

Kayak will help compare rates, including multi-city. Consider JetBlue separately. Once you see the list on Kayak, I’d go direct through the site of the airline chosen, since that might give you added benefits.

Other things to keep in mind - if you’ve got a loyalty card, you might get additional benefits like priority boarding/free first checked bag, etc.

Not all the airlines break out their fees the same way, so that adds to the complexity of trying to do any kind of search.

Also, you might find savings by having a stopover somewhere, even for a couple of hours, might save you a bunch of money but if you want to avoid potential flight delays due to weather, the stopover may be a bad idea.

Then I got angry tweet from wingnut saying “Do your homework libtard!” with a link to fake quote site.

Last time I tried to trace the alleged quote here at LGF a few weeks or months ago, the earliest source I could find was Neal Boortz’s 1998 book, which not only repeated this alleged quote without the quotation marks, but also did not provide any alleged source.

Last time I tried to trace the alleged quote here at LGF a few weeks or months ago, the earliest source I could find was Neal Boortz’s 1998 book, which not only repeated this alleged quote without the quotation marks, but also did not provide any alleged source.

One of the first big differences I found between Islam and what I understood from my (nominally) Catholic upbringing was that while there’s a Satan in Islam, he’s not portrayed as anywhere near as powerful as God.

I hope you’re not suggesting that Boortz is not a credible source!!1!1

It has nothing to do with credibility. It could have been a famed scholar, but if he doesn’t provide his source, the quote is useless. What I find interesting is that Boortz did not use quotation marks, which indicates paraphrasing at best. Which might mean that the alleged quote started with him.

I’ve commented on the TRAP laws in the past, and how ambulatory surgical centers where outpatient surgeries are performed don’t get scrutinized even though the death rates there are many times higher for the patients who go there than the abortion clinics that have a low complication rate, let alone death rate for the women receiving the procedures.

Instead, Perry gives away the game showing just how nonsensical their position truly is. Texas and many other states ignore what goes on in these ambulatory surgical centers, even though complications are much more frequent, and the mortality rates for the patients is far higher than in abortion clinics. But no one is clamoring to shut down these clinics because they don’t actually care about patient safety. They only want to put the abortion clinics out of business - and that means targeting abortion clinics with the TRAP laws.

Another Republican showing their ignorance in how medical procedures are done. And in the process showing just how much of a double standard they have for abortion providers via the TRAP laws that are supposedly for patient safety but are designed to put clinics out of business.

“Committed journalism in CA”. Except that he hasn’t. He paid a person to lie, and then posted about the lie as though it was fact.

That’s misrepresentation. It’s malfeasance, and it ought to be investigated. He doesn’t respond to the subpoena, then he’ll soon learn the inside of a courtroom isn’t a pleasant place to be as a criminal defendant.

“Committed journalism in CA”. Except that he hasn’t. He paid a person to lie, and then posted about the lie as though it was fact.

That’s misrepresentation. It’s malfeasance, and it ought to be investigated. He doesn’t respond to the subpoena, then he’ll soon learn the inside of a courtroom isn’t a pleasant place to be as a criminal defendant.

If he doesn’t respond to the subpoena, can’t the court issue a warrant for his arrest?

At this rate Rick Perry should be bowing out of the race for the GOP nomination around mid-2015.

The GOP presidential field for next year is shaping up to be hilarious. The “moderates” are all either under investigation or already indicted, while the rest of the field is like watching inmates campaign to see who will run the asylum.

Failure by any person, without adequate excuse, to obey a subpoena served upon him may be subject to the penalties provided in Miss. Code Ann. § 11-9-115. Those penalties are minor, but he could be held in contempt of court.

Notwithstanding the Muslim president’s traitorous acts furthering the planned Islamic caliphate over the last six years, Bush and company sowed the seeds that Obama then exploited to further the insidious plans of his Middle Eastern Muslim brothers to again enslave Jews and now Christians to a world where Shariah law rules the school under the devilish hand of their god, Allah.

So the time has come to return to the strategy of President Truman and face reality. If we really want to destroy ISIS and set an example for other radical Muslims and the Putins of the world to fear us and leave us in peace, we must use the tools that can do this. Put simply, we should employ tactical nuclear weapons to wipe out the enemy. We cannot worry that Islamic civilians will be killed in the process. In the end this strategy, as was true of the Japanese in World War II, saves not just American but Muslim lives as well.

Then how many people would be disenfranchised because they lost their ID? If the purpose of this was really to combat voter fraud, it could be done an old-fashioned way, ink a finger of each voter with indelible ink so they can only vote once, or a high-tech way, take a digital photograph of each person as they vote. “Problem” solved, and no voters disenfranchised.

Agreed.

I have no problem with requiring an ID for voting. It’s the limitation of the allowable ID that is the problem. A gun license ID is good but a student ID or utility bill is not. All the current ID bullshit is solely to reduce the number of undesirable voters (meaning those who won’t vote the way they want).

A lot of sociologists and psychologists have been for the past 5-ish years asserting that for-real, no-shit, clinically-significant narcissism is becoming an epidemic in American society, and I’m pretty much convinced they’re right.

I have no problem with requiring an ID for voting. It’s the limitation of the allowable ID that is the problem. A gun license ID is good but a student ID or utility bill is not. All the current ID bullshit is solely to reduce the number of undesirable voters (meaning those who won’t vote the way they want).

Semi-upding. The point is that, if you make it clear that voting twice or otherwise committing voter fraud is a serious crime, and you have at least some credible way of checking who’s voted (by crossing people off a list), then it’s been shown many times that the incidence of such fraud is really, really small. The problem in the US is getting people to vote at all, forget about them voting twice or pretending to be someone else in order to vote.

It’s a non-existent problem in search of a right-wing talking point and vote suppression strategy.

“Committed journalism in CA”. Except that he hasn’t. He paid a person to lie, and then posted about the lie as though it was fact.

That’s misrepresentation. It’s malfeasance, and it ought to be investigated. He doesn’t respond to the subpoena, then he’ll soon learn the inside of a courtroom isn’t a pleasant place to be as a criminal defendant.

He’s referring to a long discredited denialist talking point that any warming trend is due to fluctuations in solar intensity. This has, of course, been shown to be false multiple times over the course of decades of research.

He’s referring to a long discredited denialist talking point that any warming trend is due to fluctuations in solar intensity. This has, of course, been shown to be false multiple times over the course of decades of research.

Decades of research by liberal scientists trolling for research funds!

Try to imagine being that guy’s great-grandson. You’re sitting with the love of your life, looking through old photos and other relics of the past with which you have almost no connection. You come across the few stupid articles he wrote, way back when, that your grandparents saw fit to preserve.

You read a few passages aloud to the person sitting with you. The offensive stupidity of it is breathtaking, but yet somehow comical. It’s very much the product of its time, but still conveys the basic and lamentable ugliness of the person who wrote it. If the writer were alive today, you’d feel compelled to help him find his way back to the care center from which he has obviously wandered off.

You sigh. This person is your ancestor, and while you bear no responsibility for his assholism, you understand genetics and heredity well enough to know that some tiny portion of that fool is a part of you.

Failure by any person, without adequate excuse, to obey a subpoena served upon him may be subject to the penalties provided in Miss. Code Ann. § 11-9-115. Those penalties are minor, but he could be held in contempt of court.

Spirit I totally understand, but why not Southwest? I always had a good experience flying them. American is my airline of choice, especially out of DTW, since they only have a few gates. It’s usually easy-peasy to go out of the north terminal vs. the one Delta lives at.

You sigh. This person is your ancestor, and while you bear no responsibility for his assholism, you understand genetics and heredity well enough to know that some tiny portion of that fool is a part of you.

It’s the human condition. I have only to look at my siblings. Not so tiny of a portion. Can’t claim to be the adopted one when we all look alike.

Try to imagine being that guy’s great-grandson. You’re sitting with the love of your life, looking through old photos and other relics of the past with which you have almost no connection. You come across the few stupid articles he wrote, way back when, that your grandparents saw fit to preserve.

You read a few passages aloud to the person sitting with you. The offensive stupidity of it is breathtaking, but yet somehow comical. It’s very much the product of its time, but still conveys the basic and lamentable ugliness of the person who wrote it. If the writer were alive today, you’d feel compelled to help him find his way back to the care center from which he has obviously wandered off.

You sigh. This person is your ancestor, and while you bear no responsibility for his assholism, you understand genetics and heredity well enough to know that some tiny portion of that fool is a part of you.

Can’t choose your ancestors I guess but what one can hope for is that Ben’s descendants aren’t as boneheaded as he.

After more than a thousand migrant workers have died on the job, tens of thousands more treated like crap and live in virtual indentured servitude in building soccer facilities in Qatar, the FIFA folks that awarded Qatar the 2022 games is finally realizing that it was a bad idea to have them host it in the summer time when temperatures soar well past 100 degrees for weeks at a time?

So, they’ll have built the facilities and the lives are lost - and for what? A sporting venue that may never get used at all, let alone not be used past the events for which they were designed and built in the first place.

Yet the GOP is poised to take over both houses of Congress. This is why I have no faith in American voters.

We can’t lay the entire issue at the feet of the voters. When you’re constantly lied to and journalists like Todd don’t believe that their job is to inform the public, we’re totally and completely screwed. People like us keep up on all things political, the majority of voters do not. They see lies in a barrage of advertisements prior to elections and they are scared out of their wits because of it.

You sigh. This person is your ancestor, and while you bear no responsibility for his assholism, you understand genetics and heredity well enough to know that some tiny portion of that fool is a part of you.

In the case of my recently deceased father I don’t even need to go back that far.

We can’t lay the entire issue at the feet of the voters. When you’re constantly lied to and journalists like Todd don’t believe that their job is to inform the public, we’re totally and completely screwed. People like us keep up on all things political, the majority of voters do not. They see lies in a barrage of advertisements prior to elections and they are scared out of their wits because of it.

Yes, there is that too but I do blame the voters to some degree. They are the ones who claim to be dissatisfied with the Republicans in Congress yet as Matt says, there’s a good chance that come November that the GOP could have a majority in both houses.

After more than a thousand migrant workers have died on the job, tens of thousands more treated like crap and live in virtual indentured servitude in building soccer facilities in Qatar, the FIFA folks that awarded Qatar the 2022 games is finally realizing that it was a bad idea to have them host it in the summer time when temperatures soar well past 100 degrees for weeks at a time?

So, they’ll have built the facilities and the lives are lost - and for what? A sporting venue that will likely not be used past the events for which they were spent in the first place.

Yes, there is that too but I do blame the voters to some degree. They are the ones who claim to be dissatisfied with the Republicans in Congress yet as Matt says, there’s a good chance that come November that the GOP could have a majority in both houses.

I agree. People don’t take responsibility enough (look at 3% turnout in the primary). The problem is that elected officials is becoming more of a popularity contest than anything else. Since when do we want the average guy (Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin) drafting laws? Since when was it a good thing to vote in a complete moron who can barely follow laws let alone write them?

Name recognition is celebrity. Celebrities do not follow normal reason. And then there’s what I call the FDR factor. Would someone who couldn’t walk well or in a wheelchair be elected POTUS today? I doubt it. Imagine FDR, a Dem, in today’s political arena. He would not be a manly man…he can’t even do the Easter egg hunt! He isn’t healthy enough to be POTUS. He’s too old. He’s too…too…too…Democrap.

I agree. People don’t take responsibility enough (look at 3% turnout in the primary). The problem is that elected officials is becoming more of a popularity contest than anything else. Since when do we want the average guy (Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin) drafting laws? Since when was it a good thing to vote in a complete moron who can barely follow laws let alone write them?

Name recognition is celebrity. Celebrities do not follow normal reason. And then there’s what I call the FDR factor. Would someone who couldn’t walk well or in a wheelchair be elected POTUS today? I doubt it. Imagine FDR, a Dem, in today’s political arena. He would not be a manly man…he can’t even do the Easter egg hunt! He isn’t healthy enough to be POTUS. He’s too old. He’s too…too…too…Democrap.

I believe that the media of those days made great effort to not show FDR in a wheel chair.

And FDR and his staff took steps to avoid it. He was capable (at least in the 1930’s) of standing and walking a few steps on his own since that was specifically done at one of the party conventions at that time.

Beyond that it was mainly controlling access and having FDR already seated at a desk when the visitors arrived.

And FDR and his staff took steps to avoid it. He was capable (at least in the 1930’s) of standing and walking a few steps on his own since that was specifically done at one of the party conventions at that time.

Beyond that it was mainly controlling access and having FDR already seated at a desk when the visitors arrived.

They’ve covered that in the Burns documentary. It would have been a lot harder if not impossible to get away with it now. I’ve come away watching the Burns documentary having even more admiration for Roosevelt than before. I’ve always been an admirer and he played a big role in why my family on both sides became Democrats but the Burns documentary convinced me especially about his leadership in the years leading up to WWII that he belongs in the top 3 of presidents easily.

Don’t really follow UK politics, but with the Scottish vote and all the promises made to them I have been trying to pay a bit more attention.

If the hard-core nationalists who are against giving Scotland more say over their own affairs win out, Scotland is going to have another vote and they will wind up wining freedom because of all the things iceweasal has touched on. And from what has been said, giving Scotland more autonomy is something the UK Parliament doesn’t want…its not going to end the way the UK wants.