I assume because she is Korean and thus it is impossible for her to show learning, compassion, understanding or self-reflection? Or are you going to change the record and blame it on her being a woman?

I am NOT a fan of driving/driving styles here in Korea. It is one of my biggest pet peeves with living here.

That being said, I could have sworn that I just read some stats showing how Korea has halved (?) traffic fatalities in the last 15 or so years, and that they are now on par with places like the US.

newb wrote:

Captain Corea wrote:

newb wrote:

Korea has different crosswalk law then in the US.

In the US, driver has the 100% burden or responsiblity because pedestrians have the right of the way when crossing the cross walk. The drivers MUST stop when a pedestrian steps into the crosswalk. But in Korea, car has the right of the way and pedestrian shares the responsibility to look the both way before stepping into the crosswalk to cross. So be very careful and never think you have the right of the way when crossing the crosswalk in Korea.

I'm curious - where are you getting this from?

For those of us that have been here for a while, you may remember the "crack down" of 2004 (?) for drivers stopping before the line - didn't last all that long.

I got this from a Korean TV program where they showed various situations and accidents and a lawyer explained each cases as to who bares what percentage of responsibility. I should clarify that what I said only applies to crosswalks without the pedestrian traffic light.

What bothers me is cars that stop (get stuck) half way across a crosswalk / intersection. That inevitably means the pedestrians using the crosswalk half to pass behind the stopped cars and endure their exhaust fumes.

Ive been living here for four years so Ive experienced everything the topic starter mentioned.
One other thing I dislike is how ambulances are treated. Back in the states, ambulance have the right of way at all times if their sirens are on. Cops can give you a ticket if you get in the way. But never in Korea! People wont pull over to the side or slow down or stop if they hear an ambulance. People dont seem to care or acknowledge its an emergency while every second counts. If their loved ones in that ambulance maybe they will care. No point of sirens

What bothers me is cars that stop (get stuck) half way across a crosswalk / intersection. That inevitably means the pedestrians using the crosswalk half to pass behind the stopped cars and endure their exhaust fumes.

Part of this is a consequence of having a "right turn on red" driving policy. As someone who grew up back home with 'right on red', this was pretty common.

No excuses for people in the left turn and straight lanes however.

Another difficulty, at least for me, is when in an unfamiliar area I am completely befuddled as to where I have to go and am relying on a Navigation system that can be confusing at times, slow to notify, unclear, and worst of all for an American- uses the metric system, therefore at times I have to edge out in front in order to merge over, because sadly in Korea, getting people to let you in can be a chore, especially with something like a concrete post rapidly coming up because your lane is ending.

Quote:

Autobahns were conceived and begun in the 1920s, well before the Nazi party had influence. And, Nazi Germany had 'nice traffic', huh? Exactly what resources show how 'nice' the traffic was in Nazi Germany?

I'm willing to bet in a militarized and regimentalized society like Nazi Germany, yes, traffic was fine.

Quote:

India's Independence Movement was largely political, not a reflection on refining traffic and road safety. Of course politics is intertwined with culture but you're citing a political movement as if it were a cultural movement.

So traffic is linked to culture but politics isn't?

So, by that logic any country with bad traffic should be a murderous barbarous society and a country with good respect for traffic laws should be free of things like soccer riots and drive by shootings.

Oh wait, people in "good traffic" cultures also trample people to death and beat each other over 22 people chasing a ball.

Steelerails, what is your explanation for the highly mannerless way that Koreans drive (and park)? How is it any less mannerless than spitting on the street, cutting in line, bumping into people, pushing onto elevators before people have exited, littering, slamming their apartment doors, etc?And how to you figure that mannerless behavior "A" and mannerless behavior "B" are unconected. I don't slam my doors, cut in line, bump into people or park my car on crosswalks. My not doing any of these things are definitely connected to a belief that common courtesy and decency are important as we interact with others in society. It's a values thing - but apparently not when we're talking about Koreans. Anyway, please try to keep your answer under two pages and, if possible, limit your references to those 22 men chasing a football to two.

Steelerails, what is your explanation for the highly mannerless way that Koreans drive (and park)? How is it any less mannerless than spitting on the street, cutting in line, bumping into people, pushing onto elevators before people have exited, littering, slamming their apartment doors, etc?And how to you figure that mannerless behavior "A" and mannerless behavior "B" are unconected. I don't slam my doors, cut in line, bump into people or park my car on crosswalks. My not doing any of these things are definitely connected to a belief that common courtesy and decency are important as we interact with others in society. It's a values thing -

It was explained to me while I was in Beijing by a local; "if we waited at every red light, didn't push onto elevators, didn't drive our car up on the sidewalk, we would never get anywhere!!!". There's just too many darn people. The Chinese view is "to not use the free space is incredibly stupid". No offense is meant to some random stranger.

If you were born in China you would think the way the Chinese think, that or you would die on the streets as a passive loser while everyone trampled you. So you can't really say it is values and your values are better, it's just a different environment and people adapt to survive in that environment.

KR is sorta between CH and US as far as lawlessness. I like it, civilized but not so civilized things become dull.

Steelerails, what is your explanation for the highly mannerless way that Koreans drive (and park)? How is it any less mannerless than spitting on the street, cutting in line, bumping into people, pushing onto elevators before people have exited, littering, slamming their apartment doors, etc?And how to you figure that mannerless behavior "A" and mannerless behavior "B" are unconected. I don't slam my doors, cut in line, bump into people or park my car on crosswalks. My not doing any of these things are definitely connected to a belief that common courtesy and decency are important as we interact with others in society. It's a values thing - but apparently not when we're talking about Koreans. Anyway, please try to keep your answer under two pages and, if possible, limit your references to those 22 men chasing a football to two.

Where did you learn your manners, and do you think manners are universal?

I'm willing to bet in a militarized and regimentalized society like Nazi Germany, yes, traffic was fine.

I'm willing to bet you know as little about how 'nice' traffic was in Nazi Germany as you do about when the autobahns were built. Fair assumption? Or you could just continue proving my point.

Steelrails wrote:

So traffic is linked to culture but politics isn't?

So, by that logic any country with bad traffic should be a murderous barbarous society and a country with good respect for traffic laws should be free of things like soccer riots and drive by shootings.

Oh wait, people in "good traffic" cultures also trample people to death and beat each other over 22 people chasing a ball.

Hmmm, maybe traffic isn't a good indicator of culture.

Here's something you might like to try: Read the posts which you quote and respond to. If you actually read my reply you would have noticed that I explicitly said that politics is intertwined with culture.

But don't take my word for the driving thing. I posted two sources. How about you argue against the evidence posted there instead of making up your own brand of 'logic' in concluding that countries with bad traffic must also have murderous societies. You pull and twist things the way you like, don't you. Happens every time.

Steelrails wrote:

You can tell a lot about a person based upon the off-the-wall criteria they use to try and judge criteria and how well they think it through.

Steelerails, what is your explanation for the highly mannerless way that Koreans drive (and park)? How is it any less mannerless than spitting on the street, cutting in line, bumping into people, pushing onto elevators before people have exited, littering, slamming their apartment doors, etc?And how to you figure that mannerless behavior "A" and mannerless behavior "B" are unconected. I don't slam my doors, cut in line, bump into people or park my car on crosswalks. My not doing any of these things are definitely connected to a belief that common courtesy and decency are important as we interact with others in society. It's a values thing - but apparently not when we're talking about Koreans. Anyway, please try to keep your answer under two pages and, if possible, limit your references to those 22 men chasing a football to two.

Interesting but like the captain said, why do you think manners are in any way universal?

Same thing with values, those are not universal at all.

This can make for an interesting discussion however....

Let's take the bumping into others issue for example. Why would you consider that rude? Isn't it highly context-dependant? Don't different cultures/societies react differently based on customs, population density?

What bothers me is cars that stop (get stuck) half way across a crosswalk / intersection. That inevitably means the pedestrians using the crosswalk half to pass behind the stopped cars and endure their exhaust fumes.

Part of this is a consequence of having a "right turn on red" driving policy. As someone who grew up back home with 'right on red', this was pretty common.

A very, very small part of it. You are trying to justify such actions by putting them down to structural factors over which the driver has no control. That's not the case. It's far too widespread a phenomenon here to be simply put down to the "right turn on red" factor.

Steelerails, what is your explanation for the highly mannerless way that Koreans drive (and park)? How is it any less mannerless than spitting on the street, cutting in line, bumping into people, pushing onto elevators before people have exited, littering, slamming their apartment doors, etc?And how to you figure that mannerless behavior "A" and mannerless behavior "B" are unconected. I don't slam my doors, cut in line, bump into people or park my car on crosswalks. My not doing any of these things are definitely connected to a belief that common courtesy and decency are important as we interact with others in society. It's a values thing - but apparently not when we're talking about Koreans. Anyway, please try to keep your answer under two pages and, if possible, limit your references to those 22 men chasing a football to two.

Interesting but like the captain said, why do you think manners are in any way universal?

Same thing with values, those are not universal at all.

This can make for an interesting discussion however....

Let's take the bumping into others issue for example. Why would you consider that rude? Isn't it highly context-dependant? Don't different cultures/societies react differently based on customs, population density?

Population density has nothing to do with it. Look at England and Japan more populated than Korea but they have their manners.