Heimskringla thread

this is a separate thread for sharing page references
in the heimskringla of Snorri
who was a nominally christian Icelander born in 1177

the Heimskringla is a long book with many chapters
one chapter for each of the kings of Norway (or rulers in case
of no norwegian king)

because it is long, it is hard to find the good parts
and this is why one needs a thread to exchange information
about how to find the good parts

by good parts is meant something very special

as when the queen of Sweden had so many suitors who wanted to marry her that she asked them all to gather in a certain church and then burned it down
and then she said "this will teach kinglets not to come wooing me"

also a good part is where the sons of Bue were all sitting side by side on a log waiting to have their heads chopped off and their conversation was remembered in detail

but before that there was the drinking party in Denmark where bue said what he would do when they invaded norway, and then all the others felt they should say what they would do-----these conversations are also recorded in considerable detail

and then there was the time Earl Hakon had to hide in the pigsty

and the time that someone I forget who put the priests off the boat
(the Danish king had given him priests and told him to take them back to norway with him-----he did not put them off the boat right away butwaited until he had a good wind and then dropped them off: this shows Snorri's appreciation of detail)

the thing about Snorri is, in part, that he belongs to an Icelandic tradition of factual storytelling. there were two recognized kinds of Sagas----the fairytale kind where supernatural stuff happens and the factual historical kind where you try to get everything sober and truthful. there are in existence about on the order of 100 historical sagas from several centuries and they corroborate each other

people in that time listened to each other carefully and recounted actions precisely and could tell years afterwards what someone said and did.
Iceland was settled by a small number of families who watched each other and knew quarrels and marriages and lawsuits and stuff, and who had time in the winter to recall and talk about it.

So back in norway they would welcome guests from Iceland and the Icelanders became like historians---even back in Norway, where they used to go a lot---and Snorri was like a specialist in norwegian history

and he lived at a time when people had learned how to write so he wrote the stories down

and a lot of it would probably not interest most of us
especially at the beginning i do not like it because it deals in a somewhat perfunctory way with gods and stuff like that

you have to get into it further on and then it gets convincingly factual
with very little that is supernatural (besides people sometimes having premonitions in their dreams, and well Finns-----Finns, as opposed to normal people, do traffic some in sorcery so you have to watch out for them)

the problem with Heimskringla is that it is a big book. so if anyone reads it they should please post here which chapters have good parts

I own the translation by shucks who is he, his name begins with H.
and he is a really good translator. I will get the book and find out.
this is a book that when you lend it you dont get it back unless you bug the person

Staff: Mentor

marcus said:

I own the translation by shucks who is he, his name begins with H.
and he is a really good translator. I will get the book and find out.
this is a book that when you lend it you dont get it back unless you bug the person

Please let me know, I'd like to buy it.

I found this link to the Heimskringla and this is what I have started reading.

marcus, if you have a few minutes, can you look at some of it and let me know if the translation is good or if I should wait for the version you have?

I agree with you that how the original text is translated can make a very big difference.

Well, have a good reading both of you!
Personally, I absolutely adore Snorri's style, and can't really help you picking out "good parts" (since I love all of it!)

If you get through Snorri, you might try Saxo Grammaticus, a Danish historian writing a generation prior to Snorri.
His style is abominable (to say the least), but there's quite a few good parts in between (for example, the original story about Hamlet)

Evo look at this and weep. His profile says he has a masters in fluid mechanics which means I guess an engineer. do I know an american engineer who likes chaucer?

arildno said:

Well, have a good reading both of you!
Personally, I absolutely adore Snorri's style, and can't really help you picking out "good parts" (since I love all of it!)

If you get through Snorri, you might try Saxo Grammaticus, a Danish historian writing a generation prior to Snorri.
His style is abominable (to say the least), but there's quite a few good parts in between (for example, the original story about Hamlet)

No I dont know an american engineer who likes chaucer, not with such zest anyway

the trouble with Earl hakon was he was a womanizer, he was an OK earl except for that.

it was his mistress who put him up in her pigsty when there was that uprising of the farmers (and the king had just come from ireland).

BTW I was wrong about the extent of superstition. Now on re-reading Snorri I see supernatural prescience in dreams and a widespread belief that people (even ordinary, not just Finns) can do sorcery.

so I was wrong, there was more credulity than I remembered. but maybe there is still an idea there

Hollander calls the farmers of the Trondheim district "farmers" and not serfs or bondsmen or peasants etc. I think he got that right. they act like
rather independent freehold farmers. so there are little nuances that differ in the translation but it is not a big deal

I am very glad you found this online Snorri

heimskringla means (world-circle) sort of ....what?
it is the first word in the original, so the book is named after its first word

not an uncommon experience when sharing a book
your interest got me to fetch that one off the
shelf, and led to considerable pleasure

I'm thinking that a lot of Medieval literature must
be online

eg many icelandic sagas
dante
medieval germans like Walther von der Vogelweide
early secular lyric poets/songwriters like William of Aquitaine
(who was the grandfather of Eleanor---she has a bit more
name-recognition)

people must do this, I mean co-read medieval classics online
for amusement and comment on some kind of
message board

what languages do you read in.
I read a bit of french italian mittelhochdeutsch, but only
in some cases with the help of a pony
that is, I tend to enjoy a passage of Inferno only
after having looked at an english version so I know
what it's about already

Well, have a good reading both of you!
Personally, I absolutely adore Snorri's style, and can't really help you picking out "good parts" (since I love all of it!)

If you get through Snorri, you might try Saxo Grammaticus, a Danish historian writing a generation prior to Snorri.
His style is abominable (to say the least), but there's quite a few good parts in between (for example, the original story about Hamlet)

Happy Birthday Arildno
hope you had a good 33rd trip around the sun
(the board says it's Arildno's birthday today)

why dont you join us for some medieval pleasure-reading
which will help to keep everything regular
see Canto V of the inferno, F and P would have been saved
considerable inconvenience if there had been a third member of their book club.

maybe, for all I know, the good thing about Saxo Grammaticus (besides the name) is just what you mentioned: his abominable style

can you find Saxo in english online? will the translator be able to
achieve the proper pitch of abomination

another medieval writer I love is Procopius
does anyone know his Secret History of the empress theodora
hoo wah!

Staff: Mentor

your interest got me to fetch that one off the
shelf, and led to considerable pleasure

Who was the author?

marcus said:

I'm thinking that a lot of Medieval literature must
be online

Yes, I'm finding quite a bit online, which is really nice. Now I just wish I had more time to read!

marcus said:

early secular lyric poets/songwriters like William of Aquitaine
(who was the grandfather of Eleanor---she has a bit more
name-recognition)

She was a remarkable woman. Have you read Eleanor of Aquitane & the Four Kings by Amy Kelly?

marcus said:

people must do this, I mean co-read medieval classics online
for amusement and comment on some kind of
message board

I have seen some historical literature review sites, but mainly it was just posting a book review. Hmmm, I should do a search.

marcus said:

what languages do you read in.
I read a bit of french italian mittelhochdeutsch, but only
in some cases with the help of a pony
that is, I tend to enjoy a passage of Inferno only
after having looked at an english version so I know
what it's about already

Only English fluently. I used to be able to read French when I was younger, but due to lack of use, I struggle now.

Staff: Mentor

marcus said:

Happy Birthday Arildno
hope you had a good 33rd trip around the sun
(the board says it's Arildno's birthday today)

Happy birthday Arildno!!

marcus said:

why dont you join us for some medieval pleasure-reading
which will help to keep everything regular
see Canto V of the inferno, F and P would have been saved
considerable inconvenience if there had been a third member of their book club.

Arildno, you must join in. I am afraid I am bit too lowbrow for someone with the level of knowledge marcus has. Although marcus would never come out and say so.

marcus said:

maybe, for all I know, the good thing about Saxo Grammaticus (besides the name) is just what you mentioned: his abominable style

can you find Saxo in english online? will the translator be able to
achieve the proper pitch of abomination

The same place I found the Heimskringla, the University of Berkeley Online Medieval & Classical Library has it.

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/DanishHistory/ [Broken]

marcus said:

another medieval writer I love is Procopius
does anyone know his Secret History of the empress theodora
hoo wah!

Slaves to whom the duty was entrusted would then scatter grains of barley from above into the calyx of this passion flower, whence geese, trained for the purpose, would next pick the grains one by one with their bills and eat.

is it not well-translated? the "whence geese"...

the outrage of procopius is akin to love for the lady
(it reaches that height)

I can do without Saxo Grammaticus for the while,
however anyone wanting to see the story of Amleth
the son Gorwendil who feigned madness and took
revenge on his uncle Feng can look in book III
about 3/5 of the way down the page. It continues on
into book IV. Saxo is long-winded

Long-winded??
That's the worst understatement I've ever heard!!
He is tedious, repetitious, fond of saying the same more than once, going about in circles, writing long sentences witout content, paraphrasing himself over and over again..