Yes, I actually think it’s cute. Not cute in a “yay bigotry” way but because she’s willing to admit that God isn’t all that and her family might actually be more tolerant than they seem, and *that’s okay*. Joyce at the beginning of DOA would’ve shrieked about the Bible.

Ah crap. I’d forgotten about the whole taking the car without informing the parents. If Joyce were a good liar she coulda said her phone ran out of battery and thus would be unable to contact anyone. Unfortunately she’s not a good liar.

I can understand why none of them contacted the parents — they all have reasons to avoid them — but from the Brown parents’ PoV, unless there’s been back-channel stuff from Jocelyn or Jon about that lunch meeting, their daughter, her best friend, and their car have been missing since dawn with no word.

You’d think a text asking “Hey, did you take the car?” or >something< would've come in. That no simple, drama-preventing communication has been shown suggests to me stuff is being saved up…

Yup, especially when combined with Carol arguing so strenuously for her being sequestered and removed from college. That there isn’t a single “what the fuck” call or text or a single “did you take the car” or even a single “you made us so worried” means that when they get home, it’s going to be genuinely awful and abusive.

And all the calmness and peace of this moment will give way to panic and fear again. Because that’s what Carol is best at.

Actually now that I think about it, has Willis stated how Jocelyn rolls, sexual attraction wise? I know she said she wasn’t gay when she met ethan, but was it ever clarified if she meant from a closeted or non closeted perspective?

He’s mentioned that Joss likes dudes. (I don’t remember if he specified ‘only’, but she’s definitely not a lesbian.) It’s fairly deep in his Tumblr at this point, so I can’t find the specific post, unfortunately.

But also, characters have (for the most part) their canon sexualities from the Walkyverse. Carla may be a slight exception because she’s a trans female human, instead of a trans-chasis homoromantic robot, but I’d assume the closest counterpart to that is that she’s romantically into women in this comic.

I’m a heteroflexible panromatic poly transman who used to be all sorts of confused as to why I was primarily attracted to women but also repulsed by the idea of having lesbian sex. Sexuality can be confusing as all hell!
Nowadays my sexuality just confuses everyone else.

The wording heavily suggested (to me) that she was into dudes only, but that she wasn’t gay (because, you know, woman.)
It was something like “despite what people think I’m not actually gay”, I believe. Which suggests that people think she’s a gay man, rather than any other sexuality.

So- I think she’s straight? But I will wait for it to be stated explicitly.

Wow, no, I was well off the mark there. But that was how I read it, that she’s not gay despite only being into dudes. I don’t know why my brain put in a whole ‘nother line that does not exist and hasn’t anywhere ever.

She said “I’m not gay” to someone who, she knew, saw her as a man. She could expect him to interpret this as “I’m not attracted to men.”

Given that Willis has said that Joss likes dudes, then she apparently was not choosing her words to convey the most accurate information possible about herself given what Ethan knew. Instead, she was probably describing herself from her own point of view.

Of course, if she eventually plans to present as female, then she might expect that a gay man would be less physically attracted to her… so she might have been telling a white lie so as not to get his hopes up.

This. And being a straight trans woman, she’s probably gone through the gauntlet of people going “why don’t you just be gay” and potential partners with masculinity issues thinking that dating a trans woman somehow makes them gay.

I kind of doubt she has. I doubt she’s far enough out of the closet anywhere to even consider dating as a woman. Or willing to open up to anyone she’s not already sure won’t give her the “why don’t you just be gay” routine.

Maybe not. Maybe she’s got more of a secret life than I think. It would surprise me though.

We know she’s at least out online and it’s been implied that she’s out to her college friends (the ones she left to hang out with during Parent’s weekend). I’m suspecting she may have been slightly out in college but terrified of making any big steps because parents (knew so many of those types of kids when I volunteered as a trans mentor for a college campus).

“Amazing how they haven’t entertained the notion that maybe Joss is gay (even though it’s more complicated than that)… babby steps FTW”

Statistically, though, it’s more likely that he “knows a gay guy.”

On a more human level, it’s probably just harder entertaining the notion that someone who you ostensibly know so well is actually different in such a significant way from what you imagined, rather than entertaining the notion that the person simply “knows a gay guy.”

Though it should probably be a bit easier for both Becky and Joyce, since Becky has experienced hiding that sort of thing, and Joyce has already been on the “getting new information” end of this equation *at least* once: With Becky. Actually, probably *twice,* because Ethan is gay….or *three* times, with Dina, whatever her specific situation is. That’s not even counting the fact that she had to revise her views after learning that Dorothy’s an atheist.

It’s mildly surprising that Joyce isn’t freaking out more than she is. She’s had her entire worldview flipped on its head, in so many ways, in the last, what, month and a half? It only seems gradual to us because, depending on when we started reading, it’s been up to five and a half years. But Joyce has gone through all this character development, not to mention the drugging/attempted rape and dealing with the gun-wielding father of her best friend on campus (and subsequent car/motorbike chase).

It’s the reason why she’s been super inside her head of late. She’s changed a lot really fast and has learned the truth about a lot of people she was raised to hate and is still reeling from all she is experiencing all at once.

Considering Jocelyne’s interaction with Ethan back on Parent Day, I would guess that Jocelyne likes girls still. So technically I guess she is gay, but not according to Joyce who still sees her as her brother (due to a lack of information).

You’d be astounded at how dense people can be when it comes to coming out. I’ve had people who I *told* claim that there’s no way they could have known. Those straight/cis goggles can be strapped on mighty tight at times.

When I teach chemistry, I’m fond of saying the transition metals are the genderfluid elements, cause you gotta ask for their current charge pronouns before you can proceed forward in naming and balancing.

But does Joyce know that Jocelyne knows that Ethan is gay? They did meet pre Ethan telling Joyce he’s gay, right? Jocelyne knows, obviously, because Ethan basically told her (and was flirting with her). But at least on ‘screen’, as it were, Joyce and Jocelyne haven’t had the ‘oh btw, Ethan is totes gay’ convo, right?

Yeah… I remember that hope. And I also remember having that hope tempered by so much fear because taking that risk had gone so poorly for me in the past.

And I remember wanting so badly to be out with a potentially sympathetic employer, but having too much riding on my employment to take that risk (my last boss, who was an absolute sweetheart, but was also a devoted catholic and so I did my job deep in the closet and stewing in dysphoria, because I couldn’t take the risk that she’d turn on me like the job before that did.

Story for what? They went out to eat, hung out a bit, then went home. If something happened to a window in Becky’s home, it doesn’t have anything to do with them needing the information Becky has a legal right to access.

well, yea if they did it the legal way. since they broke a window to enter and ros is the homeowner, he technically could charge all three of them with breaking and entering, yes, even his own daughter

Oh my god, Jocelyn’s expression when she looks at Joyce just breaks my heart. She wants so badly to tell her who she really is, she looks sort of hopeful, and vulnerable, and worried. And proud, I think, of who Joyce is turning out to be. I really hope she gets to have this ‘chat’ with her soon, I think it’ll help her to know she has a family member who knows who she is and loves her.

Weirdly enough, Marvel recently introduced a female Deadpool equivalent named Gwenpool who emigrated from a different universe and is an adorably cheerful firecracker with blonde hair and a suspiciously triangular grin.

Spider-Gwen came first, but last June Marvel released a ton of Variant Covers for their books in which every hero was Gwen Stacy.

The Deadpool one was so popular that they decided to make her an actual character. Sorta.

Gwenpool is NOT Gwen Stacy. She is actually a girl named Gwen Poole who comes from OUR universe and was somehow transported into the Marvel Universe. Because she was a comic book fan, she knows the secret identities of everyone, and realizes that she’s in a comic book.

She also comes to the conclusion that because the universe she’s in is fictional, she can’t really die because nobody ever stays dead forever in comic books. And that the best way to get in touch with her own universe is to become a super-person, because then she’ll get her own comic book, and the people back home will read it and learn of her situation.

So she gets a costume and starts having adventures, despite having no powers and no combat training, just an absolute recklessness because she thinks she’s invincible and that anyone she kills is just a fictional character anyway so she can go on rampages and it doesn’t matter.

It’s nuts. It’s also written by the guy who does Dr. McNinja. I kind of love it.

Jocelyne’s face in panel 4 just went straight to my heart somehow. She loves her sister SO MUCH and she wants to tell her everything, but knows now is not the right time. But eventually she will. Stay strong Joceylne bb <3

Every so often I forget that the none of the characters sans Ethan know that Jocelyne’s a woman, and then moments like these happen and I’m like “oh, yeah, dramatic irony’s a thing.”

Man, Becky and Joyce probably don’t even know that much about trans stuff at all, do they? I mean, just a couple of days ago Becky didn’t believe bisexuality was a thing. I hope they learn more about the T in LGBTQ+ before Jocelyne comes out to them.

That said, I’m gonna suspect that with the trans storylines in parallel here, and Leslie having a class on gender roles last class, that we might be entering the part of Gender Studies that talks about gender identity and trans issues.

I’m glad for Joyce and her brother helping Becky the way they have. I hope she gets to talk with Joycelyn now.
So when do the parents land on Joyce and will Becky get away before it happens or stay around to try to support Joyce. May make it worse if so.

So, this brings up a question I had, that it probably dumb, but I’m going to ask anyway: what’s the etiquette regarding pronouns for someone who is still “closeted”? I mean, my ideal solution would be to just ask them, but if that isn’t possible, then my gut feeling is to go with what they are publically presenting as, unless we are in private with those that we know would absolutely support them. I just feel that using the “right” pronouns, if they aren’t claiming them, could be taken as pressure on them to come out when they aren’t ready. Maybe I’m overthinking things, and anyway, it isn’t necessarily relevant to how we refer to Joycelyn.

I’m *guessing* that since we the semi-omniscient readers know that Jocelyne is a woman, and our actions do not endanger her on any way, it is most accurate for us to refer to Jocelyne using feminine forms.

In her universe, however, if we are privileged to Jocelyne’s trans nature, it would be most respectful to reference Jocelyne to others using the masculine forms that confirm to her gender expression, even if it is not accurate to her gender identity. For example, if they ever speak together alone, Ethan would call her “Jocelyne”; however, Ethan shouldn’t go up to Joyce at this point and ask, “How is your sister doing? You know, the one I met during Freshman Family Weekend?”

Yup, though I’ve gotten in the habit of writing without pronouns when reporting on my trans kids that aren’t out and using their (dead) name more instead. Most people don’t notice that kind of thing if you can make it sound natural and not forced.

Joyce’s final comment is also interesting given that meeting Ethan and learning he’s gay has had a major effect on her attitudes towards gay people. Suddenly she was confronted with the fact that they’re human beings with actual personalities and lives, and not just an abstract concept.

So Jocelyne isn’t ready to come out yet, but she’s obviously feeling more hopeful about the possible results when she does. I suspect that, with the way Joyce’s character arc is going, she’ll mostly be shocked and very confused at first as she tries to wrap her head around the concept.

Joyce has probably heard of trans people, but has a very warped view of it and little understanding of what it actually means. She’s had her worldview expanded so much within the past few weeks (it’s been less than two months in-comic since she started school, right?) that at the very least she’s going to want to hear Jocelyne out and her mind will be open to the idea that her church was wrong about this, too. It might take some time, but Jocelyne’s still going to have her little sister in the end.

Sorry Joshua or Jocelyne or whatever, you’re still my brother or sister or whatever and I love you, but I seem to have another critical system update to install before we discuss this. Please make sure I’m plugged in and reboot me. Thanks.

After 22 windows updates, followed by 5 more after the first restart, I’m so done with Windows, … Then I saw your comment and spewed morning coffee on the iPad. Now you’ve made me grumpy. Yur brilliance is too bright for 6:50am.

Growing up, I was taught that trans people are- and I quote- “gay men who want to be women so they can date other men”. Yyyyup. No religion in the mix and it’s not like my parents were extremely conservative (although I guess in some ways they kind of are?) but when it came to gender issues that was what I was taught.
Learning all about gender identity happened when I moved in with someone who identified as one gender but lived as another, and all the pieces fell into place. A few years later I started my own transition.
My parents were kind of dicks about it.

MY POINT IS (there actually is a point here) I would guess that would be Joyce’s initial reaction/teachings, potentially sprinkled with “and they’re going to hell for refusing to conform to rigid gender roles”- although I imagine she’s already moved past that last bit.

Yeah, Joyce has probably grown up thinking of trans people (when she thinks of them at all) as extra-gay people. She is highly unlikely to have any idea that gender identity and sexual orientation are separate things.

Joyce has already proven herself to be more loyal to the people she loves than the rigid definition of the bible she was taught, so she’ll probably be accepting of her sister. Not without some slip-ups as she tries to wrap her head around the idea, I’m sure, but she’ll try. Jocelyne is going to have at least one family member on her side.

That moment when Becky and Joyce finally learn how to read the tags:
“Jocelyn? Who’s that? I didn’t name the car Jocelyn.”
“Cute name. Maybe she’s…maybe she’s in the truck! Quick, Joyce, check the trunk! We might have a kidnap victim in the car!”
*after a few panicked moments*
“…oh. Nobody’s here. That’s a relief.”

And now we jump from Carla rubbing her existence in a fundamentalist’s face through lasers and pie to Jocelyne having to hide herself for her survival while still trying to give support to someone else struggling with their identity in a community that was quite supportive of the abusive father who literally tried to kidnap her with a gun to probably drag her off to some kind of reparative therapy.

Like Carla has been through ever loving hell being an out trans girl, but her family’s got her back and she has no reason to doubt that they always will. Hell, they’re sending her R&D tech just for pranks against bigots, so the only fear she faces being out is the same fear of being murdered that all trans women have.

But Jocelyne? Jocelyne knows that her family will choose their God over her and that when she comes out, she is saying goodbye to the majority of her family and support network. When she faces bigotry and fear of death, she’ll be alone (except for Joyce) and so the trepidation is much more regarding coming out.

Do we know what Carla has been through in her coming out process? I mean, childish name-calling is something that anyone of any nature–sexual or gender identity or gender expression or otherwise, normative or non-normative–can be subject to. Mary is thus far the only person we’ve seen being hateful to Carla, and Mary is hateful to everyone, regardless of any identify of any kind. So far we’ve seen three people (Sal, Ruth, and Billie) who know about Carla’s trans status, who accept her for who she is, seemingly even without having to go through accelerated emotional growth to do so.

I know how exceedingly unlikely it is that Carla’s life has always been sunshine and rainbows, but we haven’t seen any ever-loving hell.

Well, there’s been some clues. First up we know she grew up in central Indiana which is not… friendly to out trans kids. Additionally, we know that she has a long history of being considered an “acceptable loss” for authority figures and this has led to her not even considering the involvement of authorities worth her time despite facing hate speech and bigotry and despite laws ostensibly being in her favor in theory.

We know she deliberately keeps weird times where she minimizes interactions with other students and deliberately showers earlier than anyone else, which seems an odd habit to adopt unless you’re trying to minimize the amount of Mary incidents.

We also know in her interactions with Amber that she’s had experience repairing her own wounds all by herself and is incredibly sympathetic towards what transparently looks like an assault victim all by themselves not saying what caused the injury and trying to quietly fix it themselves. Now, it’s possible that that is just from self-reliance and a love of reckless sports, but I think a more likely explanation is experience suffering physical assault and bullying and having to self-care because school nurses and officials didn’t do anything about it.

We also know that her presentation of super chill jerk is very much a pose and that she is very empathetic, though a bit of a wiseass and tryhard. She also tries to downplay negative experiences when asked about it, which suggests strongly that she’s learned that being seen as a jerk is safer than being a victim.

On top of that, we know that she responded very quickly to the dick drawn on her door that that was a hate crime at first which suggests that this is not her first time receiving something like that as an intended message of hate and bullying.

So we don’t have any definite flashback scenes, but we do have enough pieces to reasonably assume that it was not much better than the typical trans teenager in central Indiana.

It’s also worth noting that the people who have her back have direct experience being outsiders in their respective raising locations and belong to marginalized identities (Sal with being black and being perceived negatively because of her criminal record, Billie with being mixed race in a racist school and home environment and having to carefully hide a lot of her complex emotions about that and her neglect, as well as being queer, Ruth with being queer and growing up Canadian in an American school system and raised by a potentially abusive grandfather (if that was the “sir” on the other end of the phone call that drove her to drink).

Additionally all have direct experience with queer individuals (Ruth and Billie by being queer, Sal by knowing Marcie who’s queer).

We also know that Carla is very wary of their support and resists joining activities she would consider fun (like roller derby) despite a direct invitation, citing her own transgender status as the reason. This strongly suggests that she’s been betrayed before by people who seemed initially supportive and thus is not really all that keen on jumping right in to trusting people at their word.

It’s all perspective. Joyce knows a gay guy, and has some knowledge and is chill about it. Josh must be the same. Like, if he was gay, which he clearly isn’t, he would have said something by now, right?

I normally use it for asides. I tend to type as if I’m speaking, so while I may spellcheck, I rarely remove something one I put it down. I’m curious if I can nest abbreviations, hopeful not, for I fear going mad with power.

Panel 2: Oh man, that line by Jocelyne. Not “take care”, not “farewell”, but “be strong”. Jocelyne knows how hard that trip to her home was for Becky, knows how hard it must be to deal with Jocelyne’s homophobic parents (or at least her homophobic mom), knows that Becky’s just holding it with her teeth. Be strong, ride out the weekend, it’s the advice Jocelyne would give to herself, has probably given to herself, though maybe not what Becky most needs to hear.

Though that second part very much is more what Becky needs to hear. That she’s got another person in her corner, one who actually knows how to navigate the adult world and help her figure out all the confusing paperwork and bureaucracy she was carefully excised from to keep her caged.

And Becky here, I think she is genuine. Yeah, home was rough for her, but Jocelyne’s the first person of Joyce’s family who’s actually welcomed her as a sister and has been willing to fill that older mentor role for her. Becky is good, for now. She has some of her paperwork, she has a sister, but more importantly she has hope that she can push through her past to her future.

She never has to go back to that vile hell that was her old home. She has enough paperwork to know where to go from here and can put together the remaining pieces to get herself a job, get herself enrolled in school, start anew and wash away all the gunk of this town and what it tried to do to her.

She’s not out of the woods, but she has a compass and a map and the worst is officially behind her (until the Law of Willis rears its ugly head).

Panel 3: And Joyce. How long has it been since Joyce has been able to do that soft smile? Like, her parents are going to destroy that. There’s no possible way her mom is going to react to her taking the car on an all-day joyride with a lesbian with any form of grace and she is still at threat for being pulled out of school for good, but for now, in this moment?

She’s not angry. She’s content and with a family that is genuinely loving and caring and doesn’t expect her to just gloss over her own victimization and the victimization of those close to her. And when everything burns down to the ground, if her and Jocelyne just have this little gang of three, that’ll be okay cause they’ll get each other through what they gotta get each other through and they’ll support each other as best they can while they do it.

And it shows what Sarah doesn’t realize. That Joyce did not die, did not lose her central personality. She’s just found a reason to be angry beyond all reason and is losing her faith and belief that the worst parts of her family are the best.

But she just needed someone to tell her it was okay to be angry, okay to smash, okay to feel this unbridled rage. And it’s sad, because this little oasis of contentment is so going to be ruined in the day of comics to follow.

Panel 4 top: That’s the look of a woman so close to the edge of taking that giant plunge. She wants so badly to tell her sister who she is. To reach out and be seen and trust that this little oasis of caring will extend to her and not just blow up in her face with her family.

But… at the same time, it’s a look with a lot of sadness and fear. Because even if her sister were to support her like she so desperately craves, Joyce can’t lie to authority figures to save her life. Telling her would be pulling that ripcord and sailing off into the unknown to sink into the dark waves or land safely upon the shore of a new world.

And a look of pure love. Cause Jocelyne feels it too, the magic that Becky and Joyce are feeling. That this little trio will get each other’s back when everything else burns to the ground and that will be okay.

Panel 4 below: Jocelyne on the cliff face, looking down, not knowing if the fog is hiding sharp rocks or a calm bay that she can truly build herself in. Things are “hectic”, because she’s not yet ready to make that leap off into the unknown and face what may, because she doesn’t fully believe that she’s pulled all the things she needs to together, because it takes a lot of reckless abandon to sever that safety net once and for all and accept what may come. And especially when she may not fully know if she can survive on her own. After all, the numbers aren’t good for trans folks:

The opportunities are limited and in Indiana it would be perfectly legal for her landlord to evict her because she was trans or for a job to fire her. And freelance is a terrifying thing at first because one’s funds are so chaotic and unreliable.

But she wants to. She needs to come out to a family member, someone who can potentially understand and see her as she actually is. And I think that chat, that phone call is much sooner than it may have been at the beginning of the day, because for the first time, Jocelyne has hope… but she knows too well that that hope, that that kindness can dry up in an instant in the scorching rays of the transphobia that Joyce was carefully taught.

And I would not be surprised if Jocelyne lay awake in her bed tonight debating on what to do and when and taking inventory on what exactly she has left to do to feel safe taking that plunge and taking a genuine risk.

And I think that’s another part of why she suggested a break-in of Becky’s house. Not just because it was necessary and a bonding experience, but because it was risky and scary and Jocelyne has played it safe for so long. She’s ready and desperate to take the big risks and the break-in was partially her practice run for far scarier acts than breaking and entering.

Panel 5: Soft smiles all around. Jocelyne is not the only one who hopes.

Awww. It looks to me like at some point in this whole mess Jocelyne identified Joyce as a safe family member to come out to, even if she’s approaching matters with her usual (and well-warranted) caution and thoughtfulness. Joyce has had a rough day and been through a lot – however much she loves her sister (and will continue to love her once she knows Jocelyne’s her sister) it would be too much to add to the pile today.

All things considered, it’s been a good day for Jocelyne, I bet. Two little sisters, both of whom love her and will certainly continue to do so no matter what kind of drama bubbles up and around.

#Jocelyne Noir
– Cowritten by Bagge and Nightsbridge (three second to last paragraphs)

Those who say that the rain falls on the good and bad alike seem to have forgotten the kind of umbrellas bad money can afford. I’m not so sure of good or bad, but I know for a fact that when the rain comes, I’m the one getting wet.

We left the house in a hurry. Between us, the chipmunks and the dingdong bandit, someone might take a notice and call in uniform. We wouldn’t want to mingle with the wrong kind of people, now would we?

We walked down the pouring street in silence. We had gotten what we came for, we had gotten answers, but even more questions. What was the connection between The Toe and the Cook? What was the vigilante’s angle? And most importantly, who would drop by to give me shit about tonight’s escapade?

After you’ve been around the block long enough, you learn to stop expecting things to go your way. When you need the world to turn right, it’ll rip the wheel left to spite you. Hope is a sucker’s game, one I thought I’d gotten past, but I guess in the end I’m an easy mark.

My world was gonna spin apart at the seams. I made peace with that a long time ago. And when it was done I wouldn’t have anything left. But, could be there’s something I’ll be able to keep, when everything else is gone under my feet.

But it wouldn’t be today. Today, there was ramen in the fridge that wasn’t going to eat itself. And that was a challenge I was glad to meet.

My name is Jocelyne. I am a liar. Some people call it writer but I know who I am. Very few people do.

I’ll probably write a chapter or two more just to get it out of my head, and I will do it bonus-stip style, so throw a few characters on me who you want Hard Boiled Detective Jocelyne to interact with.

Also, that line about her being a liar reminds me a lot of Lito from Sense8 talking with Wolfgang about how he can help because he’s a fantastic liar (owing to being an actor and also having to pretend to be straight publicly for that career).

Sense8 is something I unconditionally adore. It’s the first non-indie media to depict a trans woman, played by a trans woman, written by a trans woman, and who doesn’t serve as a mass of weird hyperfemme stereotypes instead of something like someone I might personally know.

And I think it completely changed the game on whether or not trans people should accept the bare minimum simply to see “some” representation.

I completely agree! I’ve watched the entire first season 9 times now. The show completely blew my mind when I first saw it. The sheer diversity of characters, ethnictiy, nationality, class, sexual orientation, gender expression, fuck, it’s all there. The indetificaton factor is off the charts. Like you with Nomi. Or me, I’m a bisexual German woman with mental health issues and I can literally see all these identities represented on the show! And none of it is treated like a gimmick or a joke, everything is smart and well-written and it just hits you like a ton of bricks that you’re watching something REVOLUTIONARY.
It’s easily my favorite piece of media of the last ten years.

And fuck yes, Nomi, she’s a totally glorious badass and I love her and all her other selves SO MUCH. Gahhhhhh. BEST. SHOW. EVER.

Panel 6: Oof, that last panel. Cause yeah, they don’t know her secret and don’t even really have the perspective to even guess. And it reminds us all that Jocelyne for all she connected with the both of them tonight is still kept alone at a distance. In that first panel, she could want to invite them in, show them around, offer them a drink of juice… but she can’t because her apartment is where she is beginning to build her self and likely has all the pieces of that strewn around where any could see (which may be another reason why Jocelyne only meets with family on neutral grounds and lets them no further than the curb in front).

And that misgendering, innocent and unknowing because they have no clue that that’s their sister, is jarring. Because it is so easy to forget in the ease of their relationship that Joyce and Becky know almost nothing about the real Jocelyne, because Jocelyne has so desperately kept up the horrible front her family has demanded of her.

And it’s a jarring reminder that Becky may desperately want Joyce’s family to take her in, but never expected that any would be anything but hostile or confused to her identity. Jocelyne being cool on “gay stuff” without needing to soul search and grapple with it, but instead jumping so fully on board. Jocelyne’s acceptance is the thing that’s cut through all her wackiness bravado and allowed her to finally relax for the first time today (we’ll see how long that lasts when she gets home and Carol literally accuses her of stealing her baby girl away to a lesbian cult).

Becky doesn’t know why, but she appreciates it. And Joyce, equally in the dark, assumes that Jocelyne is more like her than Becky, someone who had someone dear come out to them rather than knowing the pain and suffering of growing up queer in fundieland directly.

And it serves as a dark joke. That when Jocelyne comes out, if Leslie doesn’t cover trans issues in class or Joyce doesn’t have to come to terms with Carla’s identity, Joyce will be easily tempted to view her simply as a gay man rather than who she really is.

After all, the sect she belongs to sees those two things as one and the same and with Ethan has already showed her concern and worry that “proper gender identity”* and queerness are two sides of one full see-saw.

But, as Joyce has proved, her love for those close to her means an incredible amount of growth. And even if she is caught off guard, she will try and understand for her sister, as best she can. And she may say fucked things, but in the end, it’ll be Joyce, Becky, and Jocelyne, sitting on Jocelyne’s couch, petting Jocelyne’s cat, and being the only family that truly matters.

And that has a special place in my heart, because the piece of my family I still have. That one group that has had my back since the start, that has educated themselves on my behalf and never once made me defend or argue for my humanity. Is everything to me. And I want Jocelyne to have that too. And no longer have to wear the dysphoric rags of a son who never was.

Amen to you, Cerberus, and without checking you might have surpassed yourself when it comes to analysis wordcount!

Yes, we are in for something rough when Joyce finally decides to cross that bridge, but there are gleams of light as well. Joyce has not ONLY decided to be OK with gay – she has also taken Dorothy’s lesson to heart of believing in people of her choosing. She has chosen Becky. She will undoubtedly chose Jocelyne as well. Whoever she is.

Also, Carla has made DARNED SURE no one on the floor will need to be ignorant about trans people again. THAT stunt and it’s motivation will travel far on the grapewine.

I just wish Joyce could learn that she already has the sister she always wanted.

Technically, Carla’s stunt wasn’t witnessed by anyone. The only people we know actually know about Carla’s transgendered status are Ruth (who probably had to know as part of her job), Sal, Billie, and Mary. I’m sure others have probably put it together but we have not seen that to be absolutely sure.

I’m really terrified that this is going to blow up in Jocelyne’s face. Becky already showed disdain at the idea of bisexuals existing- I can’t imagine she’ll take finding out about Jocelyne’s trans status with grace. Joyce is already as on edge as it gets, their mother will explode, and their dad… I have no idea. He and Joyce are wild cards here, as far as I can tell.

The eldest brother is going to be an asshole, no question. I’m so afraid for her. =(

Becky seems to have settled into a “everything I was taught was wrong, so maybe I should just accept people at their word” style at the moment, plus she major heroine-worships Jocelyne, so I can see her taking it in stride pretty quickly. I can also see Joyce being a fierce advocate for her sister, but I can also see her being painfully brutally ignorant for a bit as she simply adjusts to the concept.

you have a point about Becky and what she said about bisexuality, but in her defense she’s been pretty open to ideas that conflict with what she was taught. If she gets a good explanation she’d probably be open to the reality of trans identities. Joyce may have trouble at first, but she won’t shun her sister. They may have to be strategic and wait before they let anyone else in the family know. They have seen their mom and brother’s reactions to Becky being gay, even rationalizing that the man pointed a gun at Joyce was in the right. But I hold out hope for Becky and Joyce, and maybe even their Dad to make an effort to be understanding.

I think it’s a forgone conclusion that Joyce will ultimately accept Jocelyne as Jocelyne, more than accepting of the big sister she always wanted, but it occurs to me that it actually might be *easier* at this point for her to accept a trans stranger who was similarly an ally for Becky. It’d be easier for her to process her feelings if she had less skin in the game.

Yeah, shortly after reacting with disdain to it at first, she came around. I forget her exact words, but when Ethan was at the questioning event Becky said something along the lines of, “Yeah, apparently liking both is a thing. I mean, it’s not for me but whatever floats your boat!”

Yeah, I hope so too. From speaking with a couple of bisexual people I know, they tell me they often experience a surprising amount of disdain or prejudice from gay people, with the latter often believing that bisexuals are “just gay people who don’t have the courage to fully come out of the closet”, or that bisexual people don’t have it as bad as gay/trans people and therefore don’t deserve to be grouped under the same umbrella or need the same protections.

As to Jocelyne, I have faith that Joyce will accept her for what she is in time, but the initial transition period may be difficult. She’ll certainly take a news a lot better than the rest of the family.

That shit makes me so fucking pissed. Gosh, did a bi woman break your heart once? Maybe it had more to do with you being biphobic as fuck than “secret man longings”. Like do these fuckers not realize that Pride itself wouldn’t exist without bi women?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Howard

Firstly, that is terrible. And as you said, it’s made worse by it happening in supposed safe places, as well as coming from people you can pretty reasonably assume should know better.

Slight sidetrack: I’ve always been mystified by the “barsexual” thing. Is it actually something straight women do with any regularity or is it mostly just an urban legend? I can’t say I’ve done a ton of bar-picking-upping or whatever, but two women making out would send me a pretty clear signal that there’s no room there for me what with me being a man-shaped person with all the wrong bits. It really just seems like a way to make sure you’re only approached by the most obnoxious dudes in the place who didn’t get the message, and that seems counter-productive?

In my experience, the very few people I’ve known who have stated they have done this have all come out several years after that as either bi, pan, or lesbian and said point blank that that while that was the excuse they gave at the time, it was really about exploring what kissing a girl was like in a heterosexual society approved way.

And I think if the biphobic bigots were to be honest, they’d have to admit that that makes much more sense and is way more common than some totally 100% honest straight girls doing something that supposedly grosses them out out of no other reason than to get the attention of straight guys.

Honestly, a lot of biphobic bullshit I hear in the queer community tends to actually be sour grapes about a closet case that someone was with in school who wasn’t ready to come out when they were ready to come out and so bailed on a developing relationship when that came to a head.

Which doesn’t have anything to do with bi people at all, it has to do with the fear that a homophobic society places on kids struggling with their identity. But hey, any excuse to justify punching down on someone with less social power, right?

This has happened to me a couple of times. People will tell me that it’s just a phases or say “Tell me how that works out for you.” Usually they would ask me my sexual orientation, implying that they were interested in me, then would suddenly start paying less attention.
I feel like I should have more experiences with this as a queer person, but all of my current friends are bisexual or pansexual, and I don’t really talk to people outside of my friend group.

I don’t think Joyce will be a complete backfire. It might take her a while to come around, but consistently, when her upbringing clashes with people she cares about, she sides with the people she cares about.

Plus, she’s done a lot of growing up – she knows her upbringing has left her deeply ignorant about many things, now, and increasingly her first reaction on finding something that clashes with her upbringing is to try to shelve her reactionary outrage and learn more about it.

I think Jocelyne’s faith in Joyce is going to end up well-placed.

That said, do I think Joyce will react perfectly? Nope. Joyce is gonna Joyce it up with O___O type facial expressions and kind of have a “critical error does not compute” type of moment for a while as she gets the Trans Issues v1.01 patch installed.

But I do think, and I think this is what Jocelyne expects, that when (not if) it becomes a choice of childhood beliefs or family & friends, family & friends wins out for Joyce every single time.

I sort of do think she realizes that, at least on some level. She has correctly identified that the problem was in her upbringing and I don’t really think she believes she’ll change her parent’s mind, at least not without a massive conflict.

It’s definately not going to be easy on her though, but from everything we’ve seen I would say she’s well aware of that as well.

(As for your own situation; I hope it works out and doesn’t become too cataclysmic. Best of luck.)

Yup, I think this is the reason for the freakout and angryface contemplation she’s been doing a lot of lately. She realizes that there’s no happy medium where she can still view her mom and John as good nonbigoted people and hold on to this interpretation of her religion and continue doing actual good for those she cares about and she’s trying to deal with what that will mean for what her life will look like from here on out.

And personally, I can say, the urge to try and save your family and take them with you is a strong one and it’s hard to just leave the chips on the table and walk away for good.

Also, in favour of the whole “Joyce will deal” side of things is the fact that she’s always wanted a sister. (I don’t mean this so much in regards to the notion that people will adopt a worldview that gets them what they want, rather that writers will plan ahead, and serialised webcomic writers specifically will plan ahead for good final panel lines that sum up complex arcs.)

Actually, I think the very moment when their parents start attacking Jocelyne, that’s when Joyce will set everything aside and protect her sister. She might not comprehend the concept at first, but she’s seen enough bigotry by now, that part she’ll understand, and it will make her ANGRY.

Yeah. Might be the best way, as far as Joyce’s reaction is concerned. If it’s in a quiet moment, she’ll be all awkward and weird and say all kinds of painful, if well meaning things.
If it’s in a heated argument and the parents are attacking, she’ll click without hesitation into “I will fight for her” mode.

Huh. I was convinced they were going to be confronted by the cops while leaving Becky’s house, Joyce freaking out, and then finding out her parents filed a missing person’s report on her at the start of the day.

Just saying, unless foul play is involved/suspected most police departments won’t consider an adult to be a missing person until at least 24 hours have passed — and since all of the DoA cast (with specific exceptions like Faz and Riley) are assumed to be 18 or older they are all legally adults.

Now, if they had reported the CAR as stolen, that’s something else again….

So, if I understood the stupid, needless complexity of the US legal system (which seems to be beaten only by the stupid, needless complexity of the US electoral system), congratulations are in order?

The 4th circuit court of appeals (there’s another three circles? for appeals? eh?) seems to have ruled that transgenderism is now a protected class under Title IX (eh?), setting legal precedent (ok, THIS I know it’s a big deal) for transpeople to use whatever restroom corresponds to the gender they identify with.

Therefore, congratulations to Carla and Jocelyne, and Cerberus and all the other transfolk (acknowledged or not) in the commentariat. At this rate, you’ll have full rights in the US by… 2050? Pity you have to rely on small victories 8(

Provided, of course, you all survive 4 years of Tantrump’s presidency.

It’s actually better than you think. Same-sex marriage wasn’t protected by a Circuit Court until 2012. If transgender rights follow a similar trend, it might just be a scant few years before we see a Supreme Court case recognize transgender people as a protected class.

Circuits, in a US courts context, refer to groupings of federal court districts (of which there are 1-4 per state). There are 11 numbered circuits, plus a non-numbered one just for Washington DC, plus another one whose jurisdiction is for specific subject matters rather than geography. The 4th circuit covers Maryland, the Carolinas, Virginia, and West Virginia. Indiana is in the 7th circuit.

Yup, this and the Obama Administration DOJ notice are really good signs, but there’s a lot of motion to bump this up to the Supreme Court and a Trump appointment for Scalia has the potential to fuck us pretty badly.

But hey, not that’ll matter when I’m hanging with my muslim friends in The Trump Internment Camps.

Definitely good signs. As for the SC, even with a Trump appointment the Court’s not going to be worse, practically speaking than it has been. A Trump appointee is likely to be evil and/or crazy, but can’t actually rule any worse than Scalia. Kennedy would remain the swing vote. He’d be deciding any such case.
OTOH, a Clinton appointment (or Obama’s nominee), however moderate, is going to be left of Kennedy – moving the swing from from Kennedy to the new Justice or better yet, one of the current liberal Justices. It’s hard to overemphasize how important replacing Scalia is and how much of a difference it’ll make.
Which is why the Republicans in the Senate are willing to shoot themselves in the foot holding up Garland’s nomination.

And as I said below in a post that was supposed to be a reply to JBento’s, Trump’s a long shot. Anything can happen in politics, but all the fundamentals are against him and he’s not showing any signs of a general election strategy.

I suspect Our Neighbor to the North will, … Wait for it, ….
Build a wall along the border to keep the folks who elected Trump (and all the rest of the US Citizenry) out. I’m not sure Canada has the resources to deal with such an boatload of I’mamigrant(s).

That mostly has to do with a prolonged pissing contest the Supreme Court and the 9th district have had with each other surrounding prisoner rights. The 9th circuit keeps sending cases up to it that it knows the Supreme Court will overturn as a sort of symbolic fuck you to that interpretation of the law.

If I’m following the case correctly, a 3 judge panel on that court made that ruling in April. The full court has now declined to rehear the case, meaning the earlier panel ruling stands.
Title IX is a 1972 law barring sex discrimination in education that gets federal money.
There are, IIRC, 12 circuit courts of appeal, but they’re not different levels, they cover different regions of the country. That ruling officially only applies in Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina, though unofficially other lower courts will often consider such rulings. Unless another circuit court rules differently. In that case, the Supreme Court will usually take the case. Though they could anyway, but they almost always do when there are conflicting appeals court rulings.

Notably though, this doesn’t actually overturn any state laws or establish any protections. Unless there’s a broader ruling on Constitutional grounds, that’s a matter for state law. This does support the Justice department’s threat to pull funding from NC schools until and unless they’re able to stop discriminating. It would have no effect outside federally funded education. It is a big deal though. One of the few weapons the feds can influence the situation.

And Trump isn’t winning, barring some unlikely happenings. He’s got no money. He’s got no organization. Demographics are horribly against him. He’s got no ability to reign himself in to avoid scaring off more moderate voters. He’s ignoring states he could lose and trying to compete in places he can’t win. The general election is a different beast from the primaries and he’s flailing already. Frankly, I expect a blowout.

That, and if his general election opponent was anyone other than Hillary Clinton he would get blown out. Clinton actually could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Because we are likely to have her as the Democratic nominee, there is a very real possibility we will have a President Trump.

There’s a strong minority opinion that Hillary is horrible for some unspecified reason. Whether horrible for the country or just going to be unelectable.

She’s basically won the primary in a walk. Much farther ahead of Bernie in terms of both pledged delegates and votes than Obama was ahead of her in 2008.
Trump’s got his bounce from becoming presumptive nominee. Clinton will get hers. They’ll both get convention bounces. She’s ahead now. She’ll get more ahead.

Trump could win. He could win whoever the Democrats put up. Weird things happen in politics. But this is still set up for a bigger blow out than we’ve seen in years. Trump is going to be a horrible general election candidate. He’s got nothing but hate and bombast. That works great in a Republican primary, since they’ve been revving up the hate for decades now and a good chunk of the base is excited to finally get a candidate who says it out loud instead of dog whistling. But you can’t win the general election on the hard core Republican base. That’s just going to turn off the moderates he still needs. And he can’t pivot to the center because he’s not capable of self-control. He’s going to rant and he’s going to lie and he’s going to attack the media when he gets called on it. The base eats it up, but the rest of the electorate won’t.

He could turn it around. But he’d need to actually build a real organization, which he hasn’t and shows no interest in. He’d need to do all the work of a modern campaign, which he isn’t doing and doesn’t have the money for. He’s expecting the RNC to handle the data, but they don’t have the money or the setup either.
Clinton’s been building that organization for a year. Ground game wins elections.

Plus the Democratic candidate currently has a built in advantage in the electoral college. Far more votes are in solid & likely blue states than in solid of likely red states. Trump would need to win nearly all the swing states. Clinton needs only a few.

It also depends on who goes out to vote AND who they vote for. I know many Republicans who refuse to vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is. I know several Democrats who, for whatever reason, think Hilary would be the worst thing to happen to this country (as if Trump wouldn’t be??). It depends on whether those moderate republicans abstain from voting or vote for a third party candidate OR vote Republican because the establishment is more important than their views. The same goes for Democrats.

I wonder when we’re gonna get light onto the ‘Jordan situation’ her parents mentioned earlier that day when they were arguing. I’m a little nervous to hear about it because what if Jordan’s story was just that he was more flexible and liberal with his beliefs. Still a straight, Christian male that just so happens to see the members of the queer and trams community as actual people. Or maybe just understanding there are different views and lifestyles outside of his own and he just learned to accept it all in general. If that’s all that happened then Jocy-baby is screwed to hell and back. Most likely literally knowing her family sans Joyce and possibly Jordan if we ever see them in comic. Sigh I love Jocelyne to death. She’s my favorite in this whole comic but fuck me she deserves more and here’s to hoping Joyce and Becky deliver.

Speaking of Becky, goddamn do I hope that girl helps herself in the future cause the past few days are sure to leave psychological wounds that’ll heal into mental illnesses which is the last thing she needs.

There are so many possibilities with Jordan, ranging from him having gone in a very liberal direction with his Christianity to joining a sect even Ross would think are too extreme. Of course it would be equally interesting if he had married someone and converted to her non-Christian religion. I doubt he’s an atheist, or it would have come up when Joyce found out Dorothy is one, or when Joyce’s parents visited.

Yeah, there’s not much to go on about Jordan, but the fact that her parents are reliably seeing “so much” Jordan in her is a really bad thing for her and her safety, given how Jordan is being used as a black sheep boogieman.

But this is pretty common among that sect of Christianity. My best friend is the black sheep boogieman of his family and is frequently brought up in his parents’ conversations with his sister as a warning for her not to “disappoint the family”. And while he is queer, a bit trans, and non-Christian, they also don’t know any of that and only know that he’s not as enamored with their particular interpretation of Jesus as they are and that he personally knows some queer folks and is unwilling to disown and shun them.

So yeah, super scared for both Joyce and Jocelyne and I’m expecting shit to hit the motherfucking fan the second they get back to her parents’ house.

Also, I have no doubt that Becky is going to get the majority of the blame for this and Joyce’s mom at least will make a strong case for pulling Joyce out because “look how this family-hating harlot is corrupting our innocent daughter to defy her parents”, and etc…

Jocelyn is a woman and uses she/her pronouns. Also, I don’t think we know if she’s in a relationship, but if she is, and if the person she’s dating is a guy, I think that he most likely wouldn’t identify as gay.