Good and bad are actual properties (i.e. forces)

No, there isn't. There would be if there was any factual evidence to back up this spew you keep throwing out there - but, unfortunately for you (and fortunately for the educated world) there isn't. The evidence actually contradicts you at every turn. You cannot "will" yourself to be happy over the long term; at best, you can will yourself to be content, but that is about it. Being rich with material possessions does not ensure happiness, much like being poor does not ensure sadness; just look at the indigenous tribes for proof of this.

The number of individual factors that go into someones psychological profile are many, and your attempts to distill them down to "a simple truth" are as foolish as they are disturbing - you are, in essence, peddling snake oil; dangerous snake oil that is as liable to cause one suffering depression, sitting on that knifes edge, to lean away from the help they so desperately need and deserve and to take their own life.

You are, quite frankly, despicable for even suggesting such things; your apparent lack of compassion and empathy notwithstanding, you have solidly placed yourself in the same level as that horrible girl who pushed her boyfriend to commit suicide via text message by egging him on and telling him he wasn't brave enough to do it.

Then, on the opposite side of things, you have things like bipolar disorder, which can be treated and, with a little work, those who afflicted with it can often lead normal, productive lives.

Emotions are not the crux of humanity, despite what you might wish.

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First off, that example I gave of the rich person was just an example. I said nothing in regards to the idea that people can will themselves to feel positive emotions anytime they want to. That has nothing to do with my theory. My theory was simply that positive emotions allow us to experience the good qualities of life to make our lives matter to us in good ways. You say that emotions are not the crux of humanity, but I am just not so sure on this. I had a discussion with someone who, in fact, said they were absolutely necessary. He was a highly intelligent skeptic. As a matter of fact, many highly intelligent people think like him and they also claim to have much evidence on their side as well. So, maybe this whole issue is controversial rather than a definite conclusion that you are making it out to be or I am making it out to be. But here is his reply though:

I have heard you mention someone who said that living a life without emotions can still be a good quality life. I disagree. That person fails to understand that we are literally not capable of changing our outlook when we are in a state of anhedonia, when we lack Biochemical Emotions. His advice is as valid as saying to a blind man, "Just will yourself to see." Once you get to a place where your neurochemicals begin to function properly, only then does it become possible to change your outlook. Your brain requires a jumpstart first.

When your Biochemical Emotions are dysfunctional, no Emotional Viewpoint will convince you that your life has value. That's not how our brains work, and this portion of your theory is correct. Even if your BEs are minimally functional, that would put you in a state of being able to form an EVP (Emotional Viewpoint)...it would be enough of a state for you to bootstrap yourself into fully functioning Biochemical Emotions, and a normal and healthy emotional cycle of both BE and EVP. But you are correct in saying that functional BE are a requirement.

Remember that most people responding to you have never suffered from true clinical depression; they don't know what it's like to experience anhedonia, and their judgments are coming from brains that have always had functioning Biochemical Emotions. You and I know all too well that it's impossible to understand this living Hell unless you've experienced it.

So, you admit that value judgments alone are no way to live without the positive emotions.

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Of course! You can still make value judgments (make an Emotional Viewpoint), but they will be meaningless. For example, if you are in a state of anhedonia, you are capable of thinking, "I know that eating a properly balanced diet has good value for my life," and knowing that your value judgment is correct. But without Biochemical Emotions, you don't care. You have no motivation to follow that Emotional Viewpoint, because it is the Biochemical Emotions that provide the motivation.

By this, you are implying that value judgments themselves do not allow us to perceive value and that it is instead the emotions that do.

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No, I'm not. The Emotional Viewpoint allows us to perceive good value, but by itself, it is insufficient to allow us to experience that good value. Let me break it down:
Emotional Viewpoint allows us to perceive good value, but not experience good value. The EVP is the rational analysis of value, simply the logical voice that integrates information about a person, object, idea, or event, then quantifies its value as good, bad, or neutral.

Biochemical Emotions allow us to both perceive good value and experience good value. The BEs are the visceral feelings of value, the sensory apparatus by which we interact with a person, object, idea, or even, then quantify its value as good, bad, or neutral.

Does that make sense? This is why either one by itself cannot provide true happiness. Simply thinking, "This has good value," does not allow you to experience its good value. At the same time, experiencing what the BEs decide is good value (without the EVP) can be dangerous to us. We need both "voices."

Our BEs are precious, priceless, and irreplaceable. They are what makes us human.

I don't read any bad intentions. I see this poster saying that positive emotions are healing and beneficial as well as further motivator for life. that is true.

emotions may not be the crux of humanity as in absolutely necessary (can exist in neutral state) but 'negative' emotions aren't beneficial to one's life, if one can't bypass it to a neutral or positive state. this is why some do resort to suicide because they can't handle the pain anymore. So why the hostility?

The issue with emotions is that you can't completely rely on it to ascertain reality though. one can experience euphoria, say, from harmful drugs that will ultimately do harm.

This is why you have to pair reason with emotions to correctly evaluate the causes and effect.

How one defines or identifies 'positive' emotions can vary too. One can be happy for stupid, harmful or dysfunctional reasons. So 'positive' has other variables involved. Some people experience happiness (or what the individual identifies as positive emotions) from harming others, for example. But in reality, it can be from dysfunctional coping mechanism.

So what makes one happy immediately, may not actually be positive or can even be relied on. It can also be due to illusory reasons. As long as that bubble doesn't burst, it may be harmless but if it does, then your emotions will deflate. Sometimes, this can be quite effective, such as a faith that can't be proven/disproven and beneficial, depending on what it is.

Very few things in life are lasting and if you don't want to be constantly on that seesaw of trying to find happiness through others who can fail you or in materialism that loses it's luster etc then that is why...most people learn the wisdom eventually that lasting happiness is derived from within yourself, however you can muster it. Connection with the cosmos, divine, universal love etc or whatever idea that floats your boat. Usually a concept that is larger and more constant (at least in theory) than the vagaries of mundane life, death and fallible 'others'.

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There is a big difference between personal definitions and qualities. Just because you define your own happiness does not mean that it is actually there. That does not somehow magically make a real quality of happiness appear for you. I think our positive emotions can only be those biochemical induced euphoric states. It's no different than if there was an empty glass and you defined a quality of water to be inside that glass. That would not make a quality of water appear inside that glass. The only way to have real water inside that glass would be if you poured water inside it just as how the only real way to have happiness (positive emotions) is through your euphoric states.

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The only way to have real water inside that glass would be if you poured water inside it just as how the only real way to have happiness (positive emotions) is through your euphoric states.

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Not necessarily. a belief alone can induce an emotional state. if one were to pull a prank on another that they won the lottery, if the victim believes it to be true, the happy (euphoric) state would still be real, even if the truth is they didn't win the lottery. of course, they will find out the truth eventually and that emotional state will change but that doesn't necessarily mean that change will result in a perpetual negative emotional state, just back to whatever emotional state they were in before.

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Not necessarily. a belief alone can induce an emotional state. if one were to pull a prank on another that they won the lottery, if the victim believes it to be true, the happy (euphoric) state would still be real, even if the truth is they didn't win the lottery.

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I am talking about a situation where you had no emotions whatsoever and you could not induce any emotional state no matter what you did.

First off, that example I gave of the rich person was just an example. I said nothing in regards to the idea that people can will themselves to feel positive emotions anytime they want to. That has nothing to do with my theory. My theory was simply that positive emotions allow us to experience the good qualities of life to make our lives matter to us in good ways.

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So now you are backpedaling - now you don't want to claim that someone who is depressed cannot experience or contribute anything good?

So now you are backpedaling - now you don't want to claim that someone who is depressed cannot experience or contribute anything good?

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I never said this either. I never back peddled on my theory. These depressed people can contribute something good, but they cannot experience anything good to make things matter to them in good ways. This is a world changing theory that would enlighten and awaken humanity to their positive emotions which are the only light to our lives and artistic endeavors. I am fed up with my inner light (positive emotions) being thrown out and dismissed as something trivial. It is time I spoke my mind to the point where my arguments are plausible. I think I have finally achieved that goal. This theory of mine is to be preached to the world since, like I said, I am fed up and it is time I spoke my mind.

I never said this either. I never back peddled on my theory. These depressed people can contribute something good, but they cannot experience anything good to make things matter to them in good ways. This is a world changing theory that would enlighten and awaken humanity to their positive emotions which are the only light to our lives and artistic endeavors. I am fed up with my inner light (positive emotions) being thrown out and dismissed as something trivial. It is time I spoke my mind to the point where my arguments are plausible. I think I have finally achieved that goal. This theory of mine is to be preached to the world since, like I said, I am fed up and it is time I spoke my mind.

while our negative emotions are literally a force of badness flowing through us. It's, in a way, no different than a positive or negative charge. Therefore, all famous artists and composers who have used their depression and misery as an inspiration for their art weren't living any sort of good life at all.

I have, in fact, taken into consideration the fact that depressed people cannot make themselves feel positive emotions due to their faulty brains. However, my theory still stands. So, even if you were someone depressed who could not feel positive emotions no matter what, it would still make no difference. As long as you live a life that is devoid of positive emotions, then your life wouldn't be anything good and worth living. You would not be able to experience the good qualities of life.

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You are not in fact claiming that someone who is depressed is not, as you said "anything good and worth living"? By your own words, you are saying someone who is not happy is incapable of contributing anything positive to the world.

Sorry Matt... whatever you think you have recovered from, it is obvious that empathy is not something you gained from it.

You are not in fact claiming that someone who is depressed is not, as you said "anything good and worth living"? By your own words, you are saying someone who is not happy is incapable of contributing anything positive to the world.

Sorry Matt... whatever you think you have recovered from, it is obvious that empathy is not something you gained from it.

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When I said that a miserable person's life cannot be good and worth living, then what I meant by this was that these miserable people cannot experience anything good to make their lives matter to them in good and worthwhile ways. I did not say that they were incapable of contributing anything good. Also, I have recovered from a 10 year hellish struggle. It was the most miserable struggle of my life induced by obsessive negative thoughts and emotionally traumatic life events. This theory is my own personal insight gained from this struggle and now it is time I shared it.

You are not in fact claiming that someone who is depressed is not, as you said "anything good and worth living"? By your own words, you are saying someone who is not happy is incapable of contributing anything positive to the world.

Sorry Matt... whatever you think you have recovered from, it is obvious that empathy is not something you gained from it.

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you are not getting where he is coming from, not that he is perfectly expressing his idea though. he means emotions regarding self-fulfillment, not how others judge their worth or contribution. it's pretty basic, just because a person fills a role in society doesn't necessarily mean they are personally happy with it. others may see them as okay but are they happy? maybe they hate their job but they are contributing. does that mean their inner happiness does not matter?

are they being true to themselves and their own calling? societal conformity is another matter.

When I said that a miserable person's life cannot be good and worth living, then what I meant by this was that these miserable people cannot experience anything good to make their lives matter to them in good and worthwhile ways. I did not say that they were incapable of contributing anything good. Also, I have recovered from a 10 year hellish struggle. It was the most miserable struggle of my life induced by obsessive negative thoughts and emotionally traumatic life events. This theory is my own personal insight gained from this struggle and now it is time I shared it.

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Before you share this theory with anyone, I would highly recommend you get a good editor... because the way it is worded now, you aren't likely to help anyone who isn't already "happy" with what you are saying, even if that is what you are attempting to do.

yes, but this is an impetus or should be a temporary state that one passes through to positive or neutral (safe) state. if you are chased by a bear and all that fear and adrenaline is pumping through your system which is necessary for you to start running, doesn't mean you want to be in that state of being chased by a bear and running for your life forever.

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So then it does all boil down to the simple notion that we should avoid a permanency, or default state, of negative emotions.
Well, whodathunkit!

What it all comes down to here is, can a person experience the good and bad qualities of life without his/her emotions? Remember, thinking that you are in a state of joy, beauty, or suffering does not make it so since there is a big difference between what you think as opposed to if you really are experiencing goodness, joy, beauty, badness, and suffering.

That example all goes back to what I explained in regards to emotions. Emotions allow us to experience these qualities while our value judgments alone in the absence of our emotions do not. They only allow us to perceive, but not experience these qualities. Experiencing would be that literal force of light (sheer goodness) or force of darkness (sheer badness) which were metaphorical descriptions I have ascribed to our emotions.

Therefore, if you want your life to be something in the absence of your emotions, then you need the force of light or darkness through your mindset and outlook alone. If it can't be there, which my theory says it can't, then your life will amount to nothing. These experienced values are what I call the consciousness based values in my other packets.

This is a world changing theory that would enlighten and awaken humanity to their positive emotions which are the only light to our lives and artistic endeavors. I am fed up with my inner light (positive emotions) being thrown out and dismissed as something trivial. It is time I spoke my mind to the point where my arguments are plausible. I think I have finally achieved that goal. This theory of mine is to be preached to the world since, like I said, I am fed up and it is time I spoke my mind. All the horrible misery in my life would also be dismissed as nothing more than a state of mind and a matter of me judging it as something horrible when it never was. Denying the light and darkness in my life really gets to me and angers me.

That is why I wish to preach this theory. I know what my positive emotions are like for me and I know what my misery and hopelessness is like for me. They truly are states of goodness, beauty, joy, and hell. Also, I have recovered from a 10 year hellish struggle. It was the most miserable struggle of my life induced by obsessive negative thoughts and emotionally traumatic life events. This theory is my own personal insight gained from this struggle and now it is time I shared it. Lastly, when I say things such as that depressed people's lives can't be anything good and worth living without their positive emotions, then I don't mean that they can't contribute something good to the world. I simply mean that they can't experience anything good to make their lives matter to them in good ways.

I just want people to take me seriously here because, as long as they treat me in the opposite manner, then they don't care about me as a human being or my human needs. They just dismiss the light and darkness in my life and it is these types of people that my theory speaks up against. I might not have evidence, but my theory should be enough to take me and my situation seriously.

I might not have evidence, but my theory should be enough to take me and my situation seriously.

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Then what you are looking for is Facebook, or perhaps LiveJournal. This is a site where evidence is everything. If you want to be taken seriously in anything resembling a scientific endeavor, you will require tangible evidence, ideally of the kind you can readily reproduce when re-testing to ensure the results are consistent.

What you have is not a theory - it is an idea, and an unsupported one at that. There is nothing wrong with that, as most theories started as simple ideas - however, claiming it to be a universal truth on its own merit... well, that's where you will run afoul of folks. To make a theory, you have to come up with a plan, test it, and reinforce it. Then you have to be able to hold in the face of questioning and examination. Flukes or one offs are not theories.

Mental illness isn't a good perspective from which to determine truth.
For one thing, goodness and badness are relative to the individual. Negative emotions are often extremely useful and vital to a functioning person, not something to be purged. Likewise, some things a person might think are positive could be highly detrimental to themselves or society.