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Indeed It is absolutely inevitable that discussion of a particular topic on a forum such as this will go off on at least one and often several different tangents.I am as "guilty" of tangential discussion as anyone. There is a fine balance between "going with the flow" of such discussion and attempting to curtail it.I should have responded to Latvian's question by locating my "essay" on Wilfred Josephs in a separate thread.

What I don't want to start doing is chiding members for "irrelevance"

My own copies of the Ina Boyle and the Stanford concertos arrived today and I shall report back once I have listened to them.

For the avoidance of doubt, no criticism was intended Colin. Ina Boyle's Sea Poem has some striking and dramatic moments. I think this is a CD I am likely to return to.

I look forward to hearing Colin's view on the Stanford early concertos. As I very rarely listen to Stanford's later concertos I decided to skip purchasing this CD although I was, momentarily, tempted by it.

Back to Dutton! My copy of the Ina Boyle CD dropped through the letter box today. I have ripped it, uploaded the track list to iTunes and am listening to it for the second time. Accomplished scores of attractive lyrical music mostly pastoral in mood. The Violin Concerto we've heard before but the other music also proves worth listening to.

Back to Dutton! My copy of the Ina Boyle CD dropped through the letter box today. I have ripped it, uploaded the track list to iTunes and am listening to it for the second time. Accomplished scores of attractive lyrical music mostly pastoral in mood. The Violin Concerto we've heard before but the other music also proves worth listening to.

Did you manage to rip the final track on the disc, Colin Clout?

Sadly no. Neither my CD player nor my PC can read the SACD Bonus Track. Both show 18 (not 19) tracks. I have not, however, tried to search the internet for a fix. It is possible there may be one. A pity, as the CD is really very good and I would have liked to hear Colin Clout.

Same for me, I'm afraid. I'm rather cross about it and have written to Dutton to say I think it is a rotten practice - a bit of a cheat really. Why should this one track be available only to people with SACD players (or other means of playing SACD tracks? Maybe we should all write so they can appreciate what a poor marketing practice this is. I was looking forward to hearing "Colin Clout".

Totally agree GrandNorm and patmos.beje as I too have the same issues.

I have also written to Dutton (via the link that says "any questions about this CD" when you go onto the page describing the Ina Boyle CD). I think some folk from The Other Place have also done the same, and the more of us that complain, the more chance is that they will do something about it.

They could at least give a link to download the extra track. My concern is that this will become standard practice for them, as the same issue arises on their recent Elgar CD (which I didn't buy).

It is clear that Dutton have made a major blunder. It is not good practice for a small company to upset its loyal customers!

And that is a real pity because the issue of the bonus track which so far remains unheard is, quite understandably, detracting from the welcome the music certainly deserves. Ina Boyle was not a major composer but she writes beautifully in the rich vein of pastoralism which so vividly evokes the countryside she knew and loved. The influence of her teacher, RVW, is very considerable but none the worse for that

As for the Stanford concertos....? Well they certainly will not scare the horses They are works of Stanford's youth, very much in the Mendelssohn and Schumann tradition. Evidently the composer had no great interest in attempting to dust them off during his lifetime. He went on to write far better and more interesting music. Do they deserve a cd recording? Well obviously some people think so.....but I can think of more deserving causes! Not a cd I am likely to play often but my sense of "duty" to the cause of British music etc etc.

Re the Stanford (I've ordered all four new discs, and hope they are on the way to Japan), I've been a bit of a collector of Stanford concerti and concertante works for a while now, and was delighted when Violin Concerto no "2" was recorded. I think the only things left to be heard are the Concertino for Violin and Cello and the Variations for Violin and Orchestra. I of course don't expect the newly recorded works to be up to the standard of the mature ones, but I'm looking forward to them very much.

I just read one of the replies to one of the letters to Dutton,at the "other forum". I have not bought one of these cd's;but I was quite shocked at the tone. Interestingly,I was watching an episode of Fawlty Towers the other night! As the satirical,periodical,Private Eye might say;"I wonder if by chance they could be related?"!! I remember the Chandos cd of Cyril Scott Chamber Works had a track,that wouldn't fit on the issued cd;but Chandos,very graciously, allowed you to download an Mp3 of the track from their website. (I must admit,I never did! ).

The reply (if reply it can be called) that I received from Offensive Oliver at Dutton was (verbatim) the same as the two posted on the other forum, so clearly having crafted his waspish defence, he saw no need to tailor it to each person emailing, but simply sent the same one to everyone. It betokens a signal lack of respect for a very loyal customer base, and one which, in these economically and commercially challenging times, may well backfire.

I agree totally with the views expressed about offering the chance to download the 'extra' track, but that does not seem to be an avenue Dutton want to offer.

Here you are, Dundonnell. Oliver at Dutton, first - responding to my initial complaint; then my response to that, to which I have not yet received an answer.

Hello,

Thank you for your e-mail. However, the bonus track (no. 19) on the Ina Boyle disc is clearly billed as an "SACD bonus track," which indicates that that is exactly what it is - a bonus track that will play only on SACD (as opposed to standard) CD players.

The maximum running time of a standard (PCM) CD is 79m 57, whereas on an SACD it's up to 110 minutes - hence the inclusion in this case of the extra track on the SACD layer, which otherwise wouldn't have appeared had this been a standard PCM CD.

While we very much appreciate your support of and interest in our releases, we had hoped that you would have welcomed the inclusion of additional SACD material (at no extra cost) rather than bemoaning the fact that it can't be played on a standard CD player, despite its "SACD bonus track" billing.

Kind regards,

Oliver.Vocalion Ltd/Dutton Epoch Retail & Export Team

Dear Oliver,

Thank you for your response. You suggest that I should be grateful for the, for me, unplayable bonus track and not "bemoan" its inclusion. Relatively few listeners have SACD players - none of my acquaintance - so there is no advantage to us at all in having a track which we can't play! Nor in knowing that there is an additional work by this interesting and neglected composer on the CD which we can't hear! It is of no consequence that it is "at no extra cost" since it is something I cannot enjoy, without purchasing an SACD player, so I wouldn't expect to be charged for it.

Had you provided a link from which the track could have been downloaded in, say, MP3 format, that would, indeed, have been a valuable bonus, for which I would have been extremely grateful.

Your response does nothing to mitigate my pique, and I sincerely hope Dutton will discontinue this practice in future - unless, as I suggest above, a link to an MP3 download is provided for those of us who cannot play SACD tracks.

Yours sorrowfully,

Gareth Vaughan

I know Lewis Foreman slightly - and he knows me as someone who has programmed works by unsung British composers in concerts I have organised. Please give him my best wishes.

Interesting psychological reaction from people (one, I hasten to add, which I fully share), people get very p***ed off when some people get something which they don't. In this case the 'reward' for having an SACD player is bonus track, which is not available as a download: 'To them which have shall be given, to those who have not shall not be given'.