So my friend wants me to build him a gaming rig for about $730 and he needs a monitor to go with it. This is what I've got so far. (He doesn't need a dvd drive and getting a SSD is not really going to be practical for this build because of price constraints)

If the budget is very tight perhaps you could downgrade to a Radeon 7850. It can couple with quite a lot at 1920x1080 & med-high settings in new games. But the Geforce 660 is a very understandable choice.

It is unfortunate that so much of the budget must go to the GPU. You're friend is in a bit of a bind. If your friend stays into gaming for long enough to want to replace that GTX 660 2 GB that you've specified, the rest of the system will be woefully underpowered to support whatever replaces the GTX 660 2 GB.

I suggest you might consider a cheaper GPU and a better CPU since it is likely that the CPU will outlive the GPU in any probable scenario. You could get a Radeon HD 7850 for $170 and try to stretch for an i5 3570. You might even consider a GTX 650 Ti that can be had for around $140. Shoot, after you hear the rest of what I have to say, you might want to select an HD 7770 for around $115.

Also, 4 GB of RAM is - to use the term woefully again - woefully inadequate, and extremely so. You're going to want 8 GB. 4 GB is not enough, 8 GB is definitely enough to get by with and will provide a much better experience.

Doesn't your friend already have a hard drive that he/she can use for the time being? That would save you another $60 to put toward RAM and CPU. If you can use an old hard drive for the time being, that would be great, and then after a few months of saving, your friend can upgrade to an SSD (I suggest the Intel SSD 335 240 GB or something similar).

You're putting a beast of a CPU in this machine and it's going to be starved for RAM and when your friend next considers upgrading the GPU the whole system will be underpowered for whatever the next GPU would be. I think you're making some mistakes in order to get a monster GPU. I'm not sure how Kuzzia can call this system "well-balanced".

Think of it this way: the components that are least likely to be upgraded in a system are the motherboard, case, PSU, CPU. Oh, and the monitor - those tend to get kept for a long time. I think your choice of PSU is a good one, the case is fine, but the motherboard and CPU aren't good long term choices, and the 4 GB of RAM is hardly enough for anything at all, much less gaming. The GPU is way overpowered for the rest of the system. Again, you might even consider a Radeon HD 7770 just so you can pick some more appropriate components elsewhere.

I think I've repeated myself several times in saying the GPU is too much for the rest of the system, but I just want to drive the point home. Of course, the other way to look at it is that this whole system is intentionally a throw-away build that's going to get replaced along with the next GPU. In that case, yeah, stick with what you've got except you're still going to want more than 4 GB of RAM. And I still don't like the B75 mobo and think you should find an H77 mobo.

Oh, and I don't see the cost for a Windows license? Yar?

Don't forget to install Macrium Reflect Free and get a proper system image routine in place.

I'd choose this PSU over the Silverstone PSU. It costs the same, it's modular, and it's a reliable brand too.

Did you just imply that SILVERSTONE is not a reliable PSU brand? Did you just imply that CORSAIR is a more reliable brand than SILVERSTONE?

GET OUT.

flip-mode wrote:

(a bunch of stuff I don't agree with)

Your current loadout you picked is fine enough, as long as he doesn't want to upgrade the system later. Just a few nitpicks, most of which flip-mode covered:

flip-mode wrote:

Also, 4 GB of RAM is - to use the term woefully again - woefully inadequate, and extremely so. You're going to want 8 GB. 4 GB is not enough, 8 GB is definitely enough to get by with and will provide a much better experience.

4GB is okay for right now, but 8GB is trivially more expensive and ultimately will make a better system. Just make sure to buy in matched pairs.

flip-mode wrote:

If you can use an old hard drive for the time being, that would be great, and then after a few months of saving, your friend can upgrade to an SSD (I suggest the Intel SSD 335 240 GB or something similar).

I'd strongly recommend an SSD right now. Skip the HDD, pick up a cheap 60-120GB SSD and use that. It's plenty of space for games (as long as you disable hibernation and trim your pagefile to a reasonable size), and so, so much faster. Mechanical drives are just terrible in comparison; as a semi-professional consultant and systems integrator, I can't recommend a single mechanical drive as the single drive in any system at this juncture.

flip-mode wrote:

I also think your choice of motherboard is a mistake. Why the B75 chipset? H77 chipset would be a better option, and something with 4 DIMM slots instead of just 2. Something like this:

B75 is fine. It makes almost no difference -- unless you're implying he needs RAID support? H77 is more expensive and not necessary -- see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1155. I do agree about 4 DIMM slots, mostly, but it's not a big deal, especially if he's not too concerned about upgrading the machine later. I can't see 8GB of RAM being insufficient anytime soon.

flip-mode wrote:

I'm not sure how Kuzzia can call this system "well-balanced".

Because it IS well-balanced. Core i3 is a nice mid-range CPU with great gaming performance, and the GTX660 is a nice mid-range GPU. They go together well. I wouldn't call a Core i3 a "monster" CPU, nor would I call the GTX660 a "monster" GPU. It's barely faster than my old GF104 parts.

flip-mode wrote:

(a bunch of stuff about upgrading)

Again, you're assuming he wants the machine to be upgradeable. This looks a lot more like a "set it and forget it" type of build.

flip-mode wrote:

Oh, and I don't see the cost for a Windows license? :o Yar? :(

What are you implying? Not everybody runs Windows. Not everybody who does pays for it, or pays full price. There are numerous legitimate ways to get Windows at a hefty discount, including 100%.

Last edited by auxy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Feel free to listen to auxy. Her, um, graciously shared opinion is as valid as anyone's :shrug: auxy is setting you up with a fast SSD hard drive, and those are fantastic, I have one. But, they won't make games play any faster and they'll suck up a bunch of your budget so you'll have to cut back elsewhere. SSDs are a drop in upgrade that can be done at any point in time. If you have access to a free hard drive to get you by for a little while, you can put more money into a good foundation for the build. You know what they say about building on a weak foundation. Speaking of which, as for B75, whatev, just aim for four DIMM slots. Other than that, I've repeated myself enough already.

Feel free to listen to auxy. Her, um, graciously shared opinion is as valid as anyone's

Thanks! You make some good points too. It's all opinion after all! :D

flip-mode wrote:

auxy is setting you up with a fast SSD hard drive, and those are fantastic, I have one. But, they won't make games play any faster

This is highly dependent on the game. Games using UnrealEngine3 and games like Rage, which stream in textures, can see a massive performance improvement from an SSD. Blacklight: Retribution, my game du jour, even includes a storage benchmark and has an option to enable special caching for SSDs.

flip-mode wrote:

and they'll suck up a bunch of your budget so you'll have to cut back elsewhere. SSDs are a drop in upgrade that can be done at any point in time. If you have access to a free hard drive to get you by for a little while, you can put more money into a good foundation for the build.

guilmon14 wrote:

getting a SSD is not really going to be practical for this build because of price constraints

This kind of viewpoint is totally understandable; we're all conditioned to need 500+GB of storage in our machines or else it's inadequate. Consider this, though -- how many games do you really need installed at once?

If we assume 20GB for a Windows install -- perfectly reasonable, since my system disk, with numerous other applications installed, has about 22GB used -- that leaves about 85GB on a 120GB SSD. Assuming a generous average size of 9GB for a game -- most of the games I play the most frequently are a few hundred megabytes -- you've got room for eight games before you even begin to get too close to filling up the disk. Eight games? And how many hours have you spent playing Modern Warfare, World of Warcraft, or Torchlight? How many times have you sat down to play games and your mouse cursor goes directly to the title you're playing lately? Hmm? (─‿‿─)

Maybe your friend is the type to play six different games every night, and maybe he really does need to install his whole steam library at once. Still, I think the performance benefits from a solid-state disk -- even if they do come with some aggravation in the form of having to shuffle games around occasionally -- are totally worth it.

What are you implying? Not everybody runs Windows. Not everybody who does pays for it, or pays full price. There are numerous legitimate ways to get Windows at a hefty discount, including 100%.[/quote]

Avast, a one hundred percent discount! Grab it ye scurvy landlubbers!

I hope that's not what you're implying...

Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one. -Bill Gates

2x4 GiB of PC3-12800 or PC3-14900/15000 memory would be best for Ivy Bridge, if we can squeeze it into the budget. If not, the single 4 GiB DIMM would leave a path for a cheap upgrade.$53 -11 combo 2x4 GiB PC3-12800 G.Skill F3-1600C9D-8GAB (DDR3-1600, CAS 9, 1.5 V)or$43 -12 combo 2x4 GiB PC3-10600 Patriot PGD38G1333ELK (DDR3-1333, CAS 9, 1.5 V)or$58 -12 combo 2x4 GiB PC3-14900 G.Skill F3-14900CL9D-8GBSR (DDR3-1866, CAS 9, 1.5 V)Note that while you can have multiple combination discounts per order, you can only count each item one time, so the CPU cannot be used in combos with both motherboard and RAM.

You're spending a large chunk of your budget on the GeForce GTX660. Dial it back to a Radeon HD7850 to save $64 or $39.$170 HIS Radeon HD7850 1GB H785QN1G2Mor$200 -15MIRor$195 Gigabyte Radeon HD7850 2GB GV-R785OC-2GD

If the budget is really constrained, we might save $60 by giving up hyper-threading with a Pentium G860 or Pentium G2020.

I must speak up to recommend against this. In games that use more than two cores, Hyper-Threading helps make up a lot of the difference between the Pentiums and the Core i5, bringing the Core i3 much closer to the latter than the former.

You're spending a large chunk of your budget on the GeForce GTX660. Dial it back to a Radeon HD7850 to save $64 or $24.$170 HIS Radeon HD7850 1GB H785QN1G2Mor $200 -15MIR or $195 Gigabyte Radeon HD7850 2GB GV-R785OC-2GD

Not sure why people are recommending wasting $$$ on SSD... As much as I like my Crucial 512GB SSD, if a person has a strict budget limit for a gaming-oriented build, I'd say spending more $$$ on better GPU and/or CPU would be much more beneficial... Having an SSD will shave off a few seconds when loading a new map or changing "instanced" areas in MMO games, but won't give you any performance benefits if you, for example, participating in large PvP battle with 100's of people nearby

As much as I like my Crucial 512GB SSD, if a person has a strict budget limit for a gaming-oriented build, I'd say spending more $$$ on better GPU and/or CPU would be much more beneficial

Absolutely! I'd never recommend reducing budgeting for CPU or GPU in favor of getting an SSD. That said...

JohnC wrote:

Having an SSD will shave off a few seconds when loading a new map or changing "instanced" areas in MMO games, but won't give you any performance benefits if you, for example, participating in large PvP battle with 100's of people nearby

This is false! (ﾟДﾟ)ﾉ SSDs help immensely with game performance before everything is cached into RAM! In a do-or-die situation, that 500ms lag while your mechanical disk fetches a texture from the opposite side of the platter can be killer.

As much as I like my Crucial 512GB SSD, if a person has a strict budget limit for a gaming-oriented build, I'd say spending more $$$ on better GPU and/or CPU would be much more beneficial

Absolutely! I'd never recommend reducing budgeting for CPU or GPU in favor of getting an SSD. That said...

JohnC wrote:

Having an SSD will shave off a few seconds when loading a new map or changing "instanced" areas in MMO games, but won't give you any performance benefits if you, for example, participating in large PvP battle with 100's of people nearby

This is false! (ﾟДﾟ)ﾉ SSDs help immensely with game performance before everything is cached into RAM! In a do-or-die situation, that 500ms lag while your mechanical disk fetches a texture from the opposite side of the platter can be killer.

SSD may help, but not "immensely" so At least in practice. When I used to play GW2 I was still getting terrible performance drops even with SSD during large battles in WvW areas... Only thing that slightly improved the situation was decreasing some in-game settings.

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When I used to play GW2 I was still getting terrible performance drops even with SSD during large battles in WvW areas... Only thing that slightly improved the situation was decreasing some in-game settings.

JohnC is right. An SSD on this budget is a bad move. $730 to do a complete gaming system build *including a monitor* *and Linux yar har har* is an extremely frugal budget. There's no room for an SSD and an SSD will just mean cheaping out even more on the fundamental components. If the guy/gal can find a spare hard drive to use for a couple months and then throw an SSD in after saving up for one, the final result will be a *much* better system.

When I used to play GW2 I was still getting terrible performance drops even with SSD during large battles in WvW areas... Only thing that slightly improved the situation was decreasing some in-game settings.

Well, that's because GW2 is a bad-ly optimized game. Ｏ(≧▽≦)Ｏ

It's just very CPU-intensive

My subscription allows you people to exist on this site and makes me a better human being than you'll ever be

On-topic, I build a lot of sub-$400 systems with SSDs. I don't really know how you can say there's no room for an SSD. 「(°ヘ°)

By caring about the other components. OK, I have to ask: you are noticing that I'm only suggesting delaying the SSD so that a better set of core components can be purchased first, right? You know I'm not saying "don't ever get an SSD", right?

It's a decent build. I think a better mobo could be found and money saved at the same time, and I'd personally not be happy with the CPU but it's probably fine for the OP's purposes. Amazingly, going with that build even allows enough for a $120 monitor. I supposed you could swap the 1 TB drive for a 64 GB SSD and not affect the budget, but if it were my build I'd rather grab the 1 TB drive for now and then 3-4 months from now after saving up put a 240 GB Intel SSD 335 in there and then use the 1 TB as the backup / large file store drive.

I think the Econobox skimps on the GPU at the cost of, of all things, the motherboard. The alternative GPU is worth the step up in money. You can save a few bucks by going with a B75 motherboard - and I can't even tell the difference. What is the difference between H77 and B75? Gigabyte's new boards have what is widely regarded as a decent UEFI implementation, it's got 4 DIMM slots, and it's $75. As long as you're not planning on Crossfire (as it's x16/x4 for the PCIe slots), you're not giving up anything else. Still has 2x SATA 3.0 slots, still has native USB 3.0, has a header for the front of the case, so on and so forth. This system absolutely does not need a 600W PSU, either. I second the recommendation on the 430W Corsair with modular cabling. And get 8GB of RAM, as JAE said. 4GB is just not going to cut it - especially since there's no SSD; there will be lots of paging to slow mechanical storage.

I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do.

It is, it is. I was just teasing, don't ban me! ＼( ｀∀´)／ There's an unwritten rule that TERA players have to hate on GW2 and vice versa.

On-topic, I build a lot of sub-$400 systems with SSDs. I don't really know how you can say there's no room for an SSD. 「(°ヘ°)

TERA is TERAble failure of a game, both in Korea and in USA

On-topic, like I implied, it depends on your priorities... If you are concerned about gaming performance above all else (or if you, for example, like to do a lot of video transcoding for, well, "personal backup purposes" ) - you will gain more benefits from maximizing your CPU/GPU power. For mainly "general purpose" tasks (like impressing your simple-minded friends with your PC's boot-up speed ) the SSD might be a better compromise in a budget-limited system.

My subscription allows you people to exist on this site and makes me a better human being than you'll ever be

By caring about the other components. OK, I have to ask: you are noticing that I'm only suggesting delaying the SSD so that a better set of core components can be purchased first, right? You know I'm not saying "don't ever get an SSD", right?

JohnC wrote:

If you are concerned about gaming performance above all else you will gain more benefits from maximizing your CPU/GPU power.

I agreed with this too, though, you know? Both of you are arguing against a point I never made or supported (the idea of reducing expenditure on CPU/GPU to get an SSD.) (・_・ヾ

derFunkenstein (who did not read the thread) wrote:

What is the difference between H77 and B75?

See here - the link I posted earlier. Not much. Really just RAID is all you lose out on over H77 (and good SLI/Crossfire vs. Z-series chipsets).

I think the Econobox skimps on the GPU at the cost of, of all things, the motherboard. The alternative GPU is worth the step up in money. You can save a few bucks by going with a B75 motherboard - and I can't even tell the difference. What is the difference between H77 and B75? Gigabyte's new boards have what is widely regarded as a decent UEFI implementation, it's got 4 DIMM slots, and it's $75. As long as you're not planning on Crossfire (as it's x16/x4 for the PCIe slots), you're not giving up anything else. Still has 2x SATA 3.0 slots, still has native USB 3.0, has a header for the front of the case, so on and so forth. This system absolutely does not need a 600W PSU, either. I second the recommendation on the 430W Corsair with modular cabling. And get 8GB of RAM, as JAE said. 4GB is just not going to cut it - especially since there's no SSD; there will be lots of paging to slow mechanical storage.

I agree with most of what you said, but I think everyone needs should give ASRock a look. I've used them a few times lately and have been pleased with the results. The UEFI implementation is decent, the boards are stable (out of 4 boards my only problem has been one board had one bad SATA port, and their webside is agonizingly slow to download updates from). Dunno, just my two cents. Asus is still king but there's a price to be paid. I definitely agree that 8 GB is not just a good idea, but mandatory - I'd rather have 8 GB and an HDD than 4 GB and an SSD (then again maybe I've lost perspective there since 8 GB isn't enough for me to do what I want). And the 430W Corsair is a good call.

By caring about the other components. OK, I have to ask: you are noticing that I'm only suggesting delaying the SSD so that a better set of core components can be purchased first, right? You know I'm not saying "don't ever get an SSD", right?

JohnC wrote:

If you are concerned about gaming performance above all else you will gain more benefits from maximizing your CPU/GPU power.

I agreed with this too, though, you know? Both of you are arguing against a point I never made or supported (the idea of reducing expenditure on CPU/GPU to get an SSD.) (・_・ヾ

Well, you (as well as some others) did recommend getting an SSD like, "right nao!", which is basically the same...

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