Sunday, May 23, 2010

If we do well it's discrimination. But if we're left out we've been outclassed.

Is the system rigged against Anglo-Australian men? Here's some strong evidence that it is.

Back in February it was announced that there were too many Anglo-Australian firemen here in Melbourne. This was declared to be an offence against multiculturalism and unrepresentative of the community. So the fire brigade launched an affirmative action campaign which aimed to recruit fewer Anglo men and more women and non-Anglos:

Wanted: more women, Aborigines and people born overseas

Fireys need a new look

FIREFIGHTING - one of the last bastions of white Anglo-Saxon males - is the target of a new diversity push.

The Metropolitan Fire Brigade is determined to change the "Anglo male" dominance of its ranks with a recruiting drive to encourage more women and people of varying ethnic backgrounds to join.

"We are part of a vibrant multicultural community and I think it's important that organisations such as the MFB, which are established for, and paid for by the community, are more reflective of the community we serve," MFB CEO Ken Latta said.

The MFB has applied for exemption from the Equal Opportunity Act to give preference to Aborigines and ethnic minorities for a new 14- week pre-employment training course to boost their chances of selection as a firefighter.

Next month the MFB will launch a campaign to attract more women.

Note how the Herald Sun has reported this news. When it's a case of Anglo-Australian men having the numbers, it's assumed that there's something wrong and that the situation has to be changed: hence the headline "Fireys need a new look".

It's true that there aren't many female firefighters, just 3% of the total force. But, as Andrew Bolt pointed out, there are reasons for the discrepancy:

The MFB was now raving that only 56 of its more than 1700 firefighters were women - a figure that a healthy person would probably find unremarkable, since firefighting can be a very physical game, involving the kind of derring-do that tends to appeal more to the testosteroned.

Nonetheless the chief of the fire brigade has set a target of 50% women and has appointed a "diversity development officer" to achieve this aim.

As for the idea that the fire brigade has to be representative of the community, Bolt writes,

God, I hope not. I don't look forward to the day when the firefighters sent to my burning home reflect a community in which half of us are fat and 10 per cent at least 70.

Nor were the existing female firefighters overjoyed by the affirmative action proposal. Not only did they feel it would stigmatise their own positions, to their credit they also expressed solidarity with their menfolk. One female firefighter wrote:

I take great offence to the fact that the MFB are requesting an exemption from VCAT to be able to discriminate against white Anglo-Saxon males who happen to be a large majority of my work colleagues who have led, supported, cared, included and helped teach me to be the professional firefighter that I am ...

The diversity development manager complained that the women's response was "quite nasty" and that the fire brigade was "entitled to put in place policies as it sees fit."

Which brings me to Case B. A new selective state school has been established in the south of Melbourne. Entry to the school is highly sought after, as it is free and will inevitably have very high academic standards. The students from this new school, Nossal High, will go on to university educations and the higher professions.

So who gets to go to this school? It has been announced that less than 20% of the student population are Anglo children. In other words, Anglo children will be vastly underrepresented at this important new school, one of only three selective state schools in Melbourne.

How did the Herald Sun report this issue? Did it produce a headline along the lines of "Wanted: more Anglos. School needs a new look." If you've guessed the answer is no, you'd be right. Here's the report:

Enthusiasm stuns new school

Asians outclass Anglos

STUDENTS from non-Anglo Saxon backgrounds have snapped up most places at Melbourne's newest public selective school - and aspiration is the key.

Children from Indian, Sri Lankan and Chinese families dominate classes at Nossal High in Berwick, which has just opened with 200 year 9 students.

Principal Roger Page said more than 80 per cent of the students were from non-Anglo Saxon backgrounds.

"And that's because of the level of aspiration," he told the Herald Sun.

"Some of the Sri Lankan, the Indian, the Asian communities are highly aspirational."

So where's the insistence now that state funded institutions have to be representative of the populations they serve? Where are the "diversity development managers" rushing in to overcome the lack of equal representation at Nossal High?

Instead of a story about overcoming a lack of diversity, we get one celebrating it.

So Anglo males just can't win. If there is some area in life they do well in, they'll be pulled back artificially by affirmative action schemes. But if there's an area they are worse off in, they'll be left to be "outclassed". That's why I say the system is rigged against them.

How should Anglo men respond? Not by giving up on getting a decent education and decent jobs - that remains important. But we should give up our illusions in the anti-discrimination and diversity agenda. It's an agenda that is rigged against us and that we would be foolish to support.

This photo was captioned "Nossal High is nothing if not multicultural". But where are the Anglo students?

"Principal Roger Page said more than 80 per cent of the students were from non-Anglo Saxon backgrounds."

So Australians of Anglo-Celtic descent get less than 20 percent of the slots at Roger Page's school even though they form around 70 per cent of the total population. Talk about underrepresentation! Now we really know which ethnic/racial group is getting shafted in today's Australia.

"And that's because of the level of aspiration," he told the Herald Sun. "Some of the Sri Lankan, the Indian, the Asian communities are highly aspirational."

I would suggest it has more to do with Australia's immigration policies. As Peter Wilkinson noted in his book The Howard Legacy, Australia has become

"... the first ethnic European nation to openly invite in distinct ethnic groups to provide the skills required in today’s knowledge economy. The need arises because governments have not been prepared to provide the necessary finance and motivation to sufficiently educate our own children. They have allowed ideologues in the education system to persuade parents and children that achieving certain skill levels does not matter. Recent arrivals are not fooled, they exploit existing Australian human and physical capital at the expense of the long-standing Australian families in our schools and universities. The intergenerational transfer which has been an integral part of our society has been denied to many long established families without them realising it."

It's like this in the States,too. It sometimes seems like the world leaders held a meeting and said "Ok, white males have to go. We want all the whites out of work,out of the schools and on the streets begging for money,which we,of course,will not give them,since they are patriarchal oppressors.".

The harsh truth is...and I know no one wants to hear this...but it will come down to it...

Anglos in all countries, like the US or Oz or Canada or Britain are going to have to make the decision...

Go the way of the dinosaur or kick these people out of our countries--or In the US's case..secede.

All those kids in that photo can be sent back to their original ethnic countries, they have one foot in one foot out. Yes it sounds Nazi-ish but that's the only way to solve this problem. You can do this by force or you can do it through subtle discrimination. I have 1 asian friend who I think is fully 'white' american, but I have 10 more who aren't. So what to do? Be nice or save myself?

I personally have gotten over my WW2 instilled guilt.

Subtle pro-white discrimination would go along way to edging those children back to their home countries.

If ur a white person don't do business with non-whites, buy the car from the white salesman not the asian salesman. Don't hire them in your own business. Try to create a business and go out of your way to only higher whites.

Don't invite your non-white friends to your wedding, or the white men married to asian women.

I never really understood why any organisation delivering a particular service have to reflect the demography of the population. What has that got to do whether or not they are effective at doing their job?

And if you are going to do if with public sectors workers like fire fighters then why not private sector workers hairdressers or mechanics? Are we trying to say private sector workers are selected on merit but public sector appointments are primarily political?

If the media was doing its job properly it would ask for clear empirical evidence that work forces which reflect community demographics provide superior services to those which don't.

Mark I don' think that you even get to appreciate the significance of the two articles you have listed.

The vast bulk of the governing class that are forcing these stupid laws on society come from the white Anglo- Saxon community. Even in the U.S., where Obama is a hood ornament to racial integration, it is the White Protestant Class that holds nearly all of the important civil service and government positions. The point here is that WASP's have turned their back to traditionalism, in fact, they were liberalism's pioneers.

As for the school issue. Student positions at the school are offered on the basis of competitive examinations. What's apparent that when subjected to fair competition to Anglo-Celts are aren't up to scratch. It's not the Anglo-Celt are stupid, it's just that their doesn't value intellectual achievement despite all the lip service they give to it.

The Vietnamese Comedian Hung Le once described his effort at trying to fit into Australian culture as deliberately trying to be good as sport whilst being dumb at maths. Being mathematically too smart makes one suspect in Anglo Culture. The opprobrium directed towards nerds a classic example. Perhaps the reason there aren't many conservative thinkers in Australia is because Australian culture is hostile to thinking.(This pertains to your last post)

Australia's greatest conservative intellectual was probably that dago wog B.A. Santamaria. He predicted all the shit we're in at the moment but then again he came from outside the WASP "intellectual" tradition.

The problem is that this hostility to intelligence manifests itself as stupidity in action(as evidenced by the fire fighter decision).

Side story, I was at a local soccer game and a serious head collision resulted in a player having an epileptic seizure and serious lacerations.

Paramedics arrived and the female officer wouldn't climb over the waist high fence, her response being, "ladies don't climb fences". So it took half an hour for officials to find a key to open the gate while the male officer stabilized the child.

I'd put it slightly differently to the way you do. The upper middle-class Anglo families put a lot of money and effort into getting their children educated, though mostly at private schools.

In some ways, the upper middle-class Anglo tradition is better than the Asian one, as it does include room for sports, creative pursuits and some free time, rather than spending an entire childhood cramming for exams.

Having said that, my own occupation is teaching working class kids from Anglo and southern European backgrounds. The lack of educational ambition from 80% of these children is enormously frustrating. So, yes, the value put on educational achievement needs to considerably improve.

Islamic fundamentalists aside, the problem we face is not one of the religious or racial groups that are non-WASP. It has often been white men and white women who have been the traitors to embrace self-loathing.

It is really a matter for white Australians to purge the country of the influence of left-liberal whites rather than anything done by the other ethnicities that is of utmost importance.

Social Pathologist do you know what you've just done? You've just blamed your own people (I actually don't think ur one of us but that's just a hunch).

Impersonation of social pathologist:

"Well...it was bound to happen, whites just don't want to learn so well what are u going to do? Whites don't value education yadda yadda yadda"

I hear this bullshit 'whites don't like math' stuff all day and it is not true. Whites don't like engineering cuz of outsourcing and H1-B visas. Whites love math.

I have learned long ago not to trust people that blame their own.

Don't fall into that trap Marc Richardson. Never go against your own.

Sure there are whites in poorer communities that aren't as educated---hell my dad was from a farming community and got his masters degree in computer science when I was born in his mid-thirties. He practically dropped out of school before then, but then he realized he had a gift for programming. A talent, a way of thinking that was unique. Shit like that can't be taught.

At my ALL Asian highschool there was the "blondes" who the asians hated because they were so smart. All of those girls are doing VERY well in life now.

I'm tired of this attitude where we sit around saying 'well the asians have ambition and we don't so there's nothing you can do.'

Just give up now then. Roll over and give up. The asians are obviously smarter according to you people so give up.

I take a different tact towards all of this. I say "Yes, there are whites in farming communities that may not achieve a physics degree" but MY job and MY only job is to protect them from unfair competition. They are my people and it is my job to make sure that they are employed.

I will not replace my people with a foreign hostile ethnic elite. I will not say "Well my people are dumb so whatja goin' to do?"

I will not bemoan my people's shortcomings and hold up Asian Comedian's Stupid Jokes as Biblical Word on my people's intelligence.

Jokes like that are a put down and a form of hostility to Anglos who INVENTED math, science, and engineering. It's a way to intimidate white children into giving up their rightful heritage. Anyone who repeats said jokes are NOT my friends.

I will protect engineering jobs, I will protect math university spaces, and I will save these spaces for MY People.

Because I know, that white people don't give a fuck about SAT scores and entry scores. Whites tend to be bigger picture thinkers and more adventurous and more innovative.

Here's an example..remember Korean friend who married white guy for money and now is a perpetual student in some worthless subject? Well she got a higher SAT score. Of course she took 1000 million weeks of prep classes. I the white person, went to Locke Highschool in Watts, took my SAT, had my SAT thrown out by blacks (it was found no worries), and I took my SAT once with no practice tests at all and not having taken a math class for several years cuz I finished all maths four years early...and I got like 80 points lower on the test.

So am I dumber? Or am I just white and said "Fuck Standardized Testing" as almost every white kid I knew did. (Hey why were all the white kids sent to Watts? I was there with all the smart blondes...still wondering about that after all these years)

The point is....Whites are smart and awesome and sure we may score a few points lower on standardized testing but that's because we actually have a different view towards said tests.

I protect my own, I never go against my own, and I never insult my own, and I never put my own down.

If you start spouting this 'whites aren't into maths' crap then it discourages whites from going into math and it belittles the whites who are in maths.

Whites are into maths, and whites historically are above and beyond the best at maths.

Once you get past calculus, math is 100% concept based. Linear regression algorithms, trust region methods, mean theory probability are all worthless to people who don't have the ability to understand a concept and visualize it. Whites start performing above and beyond asians when you get into this realm.

My white college prof would put the scores by race and ethnicity and the whites were always at the top of these classes.

But we can't discourage our children with bullshit about basic maths and algebra. Math only gets easier for whites past calculus.

The problem with whites I see is that in lower maths they try to think about it instead of just memorizing it. I always tell people "Don't think too hard about math, just memorize it and eventually all the concept stuff will hit you down the road."

"The vast bulk of the governing class that are forcing these stupid laws on society come from the white Anglo- Saxon community. Even in the U.S., where Obama is a hood ornament to racial integration, it is the White Protestant Class that holds nearly all of the important civil service and government positions. The point here is that WASP's have turned their back to traditionalism, in fact, they were liberalism's pioneers."

But do I really need to list the names? Do I have to go there on this blog? I don't want to be a pisser on an Australian blog.

Here's all I'll say...(this is why I don't like you Social Patholigist is cuz you know that most people won't have the guts to disagree with you)....Which university in Australia has the most foreign students? Now google the name of the president of that university and the person who made the decision. I think you'll find something interesting about that person.

I also don't like social patholigist because every sentence of his latest post was basically putting us down.

I saw some footage on TV the other day of the interior of Chartres Cathedral. It was tremendously impressive for something built in the 1200s. Obviously in that part of the world at that time the creation of beautiful churches was considered highly important.

We're living in societies now in which the political class does not consider the preservation of an Anglo or European tradition to be important. What matters to this class is a political ideal of social justice and white males are often identified as the main hindrance or bulwark against the achievement of this ideal. So our demise is considered in some ways a mark of progress.

It's a suicidal world view for the white political class to adopt, but there you have it.

The solution is to get as many Anglos/Europeans as possible to start thinking independently and to once again believe the preservation of their own tradition to be important.

Ok so first social pathologist writes that he agrees with you. "Hey mark, great post, I agree with you. I am your friend."

Then social pathologist goes on to insult the WASPS who btw are no longer the elite in the US, it is in fact the Jews who hold most positions in government as evidenced by the Supreme Court being 1/3 jewish and most of the federal reserve, the Obama administration etc etc. Read Steve Sailer or Pat Buchanan, or just wikipedia names. The WASPS were dethroned from the ruling class by the 1960s and replaced by a Jewish Elite.

Then social pathologist insults Anglo-Celts in the next paragraph.

Then social patholigist ELEVATES a vietnamese comedian above whites, and uses the asian's words as fact of whites lower intelligence and lack of education.

Then Social Pathologist goes on to blame "hostility to intelligence" (which is yet another cut to whites which is unfounded) as reason for these stupid liberal laws. When in fact, it's because whites are so much more anti-ethnic, pro-meritocratic, pro-intellectual, anti-tribal, and individualistic in comparison to other races---as a result of anglos nuclear family structure. (read David Willett's new book)

What is upsetting to me Marc is the fact that you, because Social Pathologist established the "I am your friend Marc I agree with you" comment at the beginning...you went along with his post.

White people are very honest in admitting their shortcomings...far more honest then other ethnicities...whites feel guilty and will readily 'flog' themselves for minor transgressions.

So at the end of your reply to social pathologist you actually ended up putting down your own pupils. You separated yourself from your 'babies' in order to find a commonality, a point of agreement with social pathologist. In effect, you weakened yourself, weakened your argument, and lowered the status of your white students.

There's a shitload of psychology going on in those two posts. Social pathologist totally manipulated you into putting down your own people, while stating blatant falsehoods.

Just because someone agrees with you doesn't mean they are your friend.

"...it is in fact the Jews who hold most positions in government as evidenced by the Supreme Court being 1/3 jewish and most of the federal reserve ... The WASPS were dethroned from the ruling class by the 1960s and replaced by a Jewish Elite".

Ok, probably true in the U.S. but WASPs are still fairly dominant in Australia and other English speaking nations like Canada and New Zealand, and anti-white sentiment in these countries is just as high if not higher.

Politically correctness is a decadent manisfestation of protestant guilt culture and individualism. Instead of rigorous self-criticism over personal actions or weaknesses, todays Protestant westerners criticise themselves and their fellow westerners for not holding fashionably correct social and political values (in a decadent culture its much easier to hold the correct values than act in a correct way (eg, you can cheat on your wife but don't say anything sexist). This is why Lutheran Sweden, which has a powerful guilt culture, is a lot more PC than Catholic Italy.

"Australia and other English speaking nations like Canada and New Zealand, and anti-white sentiment in these countries is just as high if not higher."

From what I know that just seems illogical. NZ nor Oz have a black president and jewish citizens as chief of staff.

You guys politically are moving rightward and the US is just getting worse and worse and worse.

In Arizona, WASP types are in charge and they are moving rightward. But in Washington D.C. non-WASPS are in charge and they are moving leftward. In Texas where they are rewriting history books, the Christian WASP types are fighting back (Read Pat Buchanan's latest article)

Sweden may be very PC, but I don't see them with a black president or being invaded by hostile foreigners.

I just don't see the anti-white fervor in Oz or NZ to the extent that is in the U.S.

Well I guess Mike could be right...considering that the most anti-white fervor I've heard out of Oz has come from Marc himself and social pathologist both bemoaning/agreeing that Anglo school children just aren't up to snuff (which therefore implies that everything we talk about on this blog is a complete waste of time if whites are so uneducated and lacking in accomplishment and desire to achieve)

Oooh so bad so bad so bad....

You can all throw the rotten vegetables at me now that I've got my umbrella open.

Also, you guys all need to spend ALOT of time contemplating why there is an underlying hatred for WASPS in every single one of your guys's posts.

Isn't all of your guys criticisms of WASPS a form of media brainwashing itself?

Where did the endless WASP hatred/criticisms come from?

People like Samuel Eliot Morrison the great WASP war historian, Douglas McArthur etc etc...I really can't see why they are so evil and considered the downfall of society.

I think we should do an excercise in which we actually name elite WASPS and then you guys can tell me why they were so terrible.

The Asian students may well be better academically than a lot of white kids, but the important point was the contrast between these two stories and the spin put on each of them.

Asians are almost certainly more able academically, but so what? The question is why in one area is it bad to have so many white people and in another area it's so good to have so many non-white people? It's a double standard and it sucks.

(Sorry I'm really bored...and I am not the same anonymous who caused problems on another thread)

I agree with what Louis says on one level. The double standard is a big problem. However I think there is a problem with stating that "Asians are better academically."

Starting from this logic:

"Asians are better than Whites Academically"

Then in a purely meritocratic society there would be nothing wrong with having the top universities and the top high schools (such as the one photoed) to have 80% asian students.

However, I contend that this is akin to White Suicide.

In this purely meritocratic society asians would eventually take up all the top posts of the country and rule the country. Eventually, the lesser white majority would be subjected to a hostile asian ethnic elite.

Is this a desirable outcome?

If one is going to have a purely meritocratic society, then you cannot have immigration from people's who score higher on tests and hostile to you at the same time.

That is why if you truly care about preserving Australia White Culture and white people in general...you will tread carefully when you insult the abilities of white australians.

Right now is not time for us to be turning on ourselves---especially our schoolchildren.

White meritocracy has always helped us have dynamic societies that made the greatest contributions to the world. But Meritocracy in our current pro-immigration environment will eventually lead to suicide.

If you guys want to have a meritocratic society then it is imperative that you stop asian immigration ASAP.

If you want to have Asians (and the asians are the elite from asia who are immigrating) live in Australia and yet have whites still remain 'in charge' then you must close ranks, stop insulting white schoolchildren, get rid of standardized testing admission schools, and start acting a bit more like an ethnic entity with a valid interest to survival.

In no way am I being hypocritical in saying that Asians would outperform in a Standardized Testing Based environment, while adhering to the fact that I believe Whites to be superior in overall intelligence, creativity, and life achievements.

The one thing I'll concede is that there is a bit of a gibe in Social Pathologist's comment when he declares the Anglo-Australian tradition to be anti-intellectual.

Of course, the mainstream tradition isn't very intellectual, but that's the same for most countries. Our problem is not that we're lacking an intellectual class, but that the intellectual class we have is almost uniformly liberal.

There's a very basic problem with the argument that we shouldn't criticise faults within the Anglo elite.

It is very definitely the Anglo elite in Australia who have had power and who have created the situation we are now in.

If you look through the leading politicians and media figures in Australia over the past couple of generations, probably at least 80% have been Anglo males.

Why didn't they act to defend their own tradition when they had the power to do so? Because they are committed to a politics in which such an aim is considered either unimportant or immoral.

I think this whole thing that we had going today is the explanation to why at least some of the Anglo elite went against us.

Let's look at the psychology.

Social pathologist says something that is PURE EVIL in a very polite way.

Marc then goes with the politeness, and agrees with him, while at the same time insulting his schoolchildren. (still mad at u over that mate)

Now this is exactly what the elites did....One snotty elite insulted the lower classes, and the other elites didn't have the foresight to disagree with the guy.

Look at how Louis thinks that the problem is the "Double Standard"

I contend that the problem lies in the fact that whites are too easy to turn on their own and put their own down. Even admitting that Asians are smarter IS a Problem in a white society.

Why should whites be respected when we so easily agree with someone who is insulting our people? Why shouldn't there be a double standard when we admit we aren't the best?

Eh...its 1:30AM here I'm done...

Someone take over the line of thinking

In an all-white society this self-criticism, self-loathing, class warfare leads to great progress shockingly enough...but now in the 21st century we're fucked if we don't start becoming a bit supremacist and ethnic.

You know how wives insult their husbands in front of groups of people?

That's essentially what you guys are doing whenever you say stuff like "asians are better at math" "whites are anti-intellectual" etc etc.

Using Louis again....

Given: "Asians are almost certainly more able academically, but so what?"

Equals:All Asian Highschool = Good

Equals:All White Male Firefighters = Bad

Equals:Asian and White Firefighters = Better!

Product:Double Standard

Get it??

If I admit that I'm not as good as someone else...then what is the point of my existence?

I'm not going to get into IQ but Steve Sailer has already clearly shown that asians perform above whites by a few points onnon-conceptual tests, but far below whites on conceptual tests. Reference the vdare.com blog.

There are no "you guys" making comments here about whites being inferior. You are basing a lot on your reading of a single comment in one discussion.

The general argument here is that the white political class has adopted a damaging political world view. I don't see how it's possible to criticise the white political class for this privately rather than publicly.

Are you really suggesting I give Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and Kevin Rudd a pass just because they are my coethnics? That might work if it really were true that they were on my side. But the sobering reality is that they are not. They have a vision of how things should be which excludes the preservation of my/our ethnic tradition.

Politically correctness is a decadent manisfestation of protestant guilt culture and individualism. Instead of rigorous self-criticism over personal actions or weaknesses, todays Protestant westerners criticise themselves and their fellow westerners for not holding fashionably correct social and political values (in a decadent culture its much easier to hold the correct values than act in a correct way (eg, you can cheat on your wife but don't say anything sexist). This is why Lutheran Sweden, which has a powerful guilt culture, is a lot more PC than Catholic Italy.

Mike, you've hit the nail on the head. I don't want to get into a religious flame war, but in some cultures being nice is more important than being good.

Theirin lays the problem, people with that mindset want to be agreeable towards the people they feel guilt towards. The more strident the demands of the aggrieved, the more accommodating the guilty. That's why racism towards self is perfectly justifiable and logically inevitable to these types. That's why their quite happy to discriminate against their own type.

Asians are almost certainly more able academically, but so what?

I'm not so sure about the Louise. I've have opportunity at working with some of the brightest Asians and with all due respect to them, they never struck me as bright as the brightest Europeans. The thing about them though is that they are bright and by working hard, develop their maximum potential. I.Q alone is not enough, I.Q. + Character is what's needed.

Our problem is not that we're lacking an intellectual class, but that the intellectual class we have is almost uniformly liberal.

If we had an intellectual class, it wouldn't be liberal. The fact that we have a liberal "intelligentsia" is proof that we don't have an intelligentsia. The ideas of liberalism have been totally discredited. Five minutes of simple thinking on the subject falsifies nearly every claim the liberals make. And one doesn't have to be religious to take this view. The atheistic HBD and Evo Psyche Movements pretty much rubbish liberalism as well.

On Mark's original post, what's really wrong is that firefighter positions are especially sort after. Their standards are very high and their pay is excellent. You're going to give them out like goodies to anyone it seems. What a left way of thinking. A job is nothing but a benefaction to be handed out.

Those people who adhere to the anti-white male double standard seem to be hoping for an impossible situation. They want Asians to be overrepresented in jobs such as engineering, and women in jobs such as nursing. Then the pool of available workers for less desireable jobs, such as firefighters, will necessarily have more white men. How can they expect women and Asians to make up their "fair share" of firefighters, if they are all nurses, teachers, scientists, and engineers?

The general argument here is that the white political class has adopted a damaging political world view.

The key question is damaging to whom. The white political class is not interested in ethnic solidarity; just the opposite, it wants to use non-whites to crush the white middle and lower classes. It is pointless to argue that they "should" think in terms of their ethnic interests when all they actually care about are their class interests.

The general argument here is that the white political class has adopted a damaging political world view. I don't see how it's possible to criticise the white political class for this privately rather than publicly.

Are you really suggesting I give Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and Kevin Rudd a pass just because they are my coethnics? That might work if it really were true that they were on my side. But the sobering reality is that they are not. They have a vision of how things should be which excludes the preservation of my/our ethnic tradition.

----

Well see that's the thing. I'm starting to feel like our ethnic elites are treating us like we treat ourselves. I have to use real life examples...I can't think any other way...

I know a guy in the army who said upon returning home "I'd rather be around my non-white army buddies then have to live across the street from these worthless white trash types"

One of the reasons why this army guy bugs me so much is because he's kinda the perfect guy to get a head job in government 10 years down the road. And look what he does! He insults his own all the time. He doesn't care about the blue collar whites---he despises them for their lack of achievement.

So we have fostered this attitude where we insult our own people constantly almost to the point where half of you guys don't even know when you do it.

Our elites are us!

How upperclass do you have to be to be an elite? I consider the college-educated crowd to be the worse offenders. They hate the lower 'redneck' classes and that hatred is reflected in our immigration policies. Look at HuffingtonPost...They post "Funniest Redneck Wedding Photos"

Look at Rudd...he's a total asianphile. I probably walks around his house going "Asians students are so much smarter and wanting to achieve more. I love Asian culture in comparison to those low whites"

These people are us!!!

Maybe had Rudd or some of these politicians grown up in an environment where they would have had the shit beat out of them for using the term 'white trash' etc etc they would have a bit more respect for their own people.

So it starts with what we say. We should tread carefully with blanket statements about our own culture.

If you go to Armenian messageboards they make fun of 'hystanci's' or ex-USSR leather jacket wearing armenians...but the attitude/tone is totally different....It's joking and with love, because they are an extended family.

Whites really go after each other on a serious level...."lack of educational ambition" "White trash" "asians are high-achievers and more ambitious"

It's very bad for our survival, and it makes us look weak in the eyes of non-whites.

Instead of rigorous self-criticism over personal actions or weaknesses, todays Protestant westerners criticise themselves and their fellow westerners for not holding fashionably correct social and political values (in a decadent culture its much easier to hold the correct values than act in a correct way

despite the egalitarian idea within liberalism, there is still an elitism in Western societies, but a lazy one based on little more than holding to certain beliefs.

A recent example of this kind of lazy elitism is the argument of English columnist, Patrick West, that Australians are "white trash" because we are "some of the most coarse, racist people on earth".

West's complaint is not only that we lack refinement, but that we fail to measure up to liberal political belief by having too much ethnic loyalty and therefore being "racist" ...

... It is a cheap elitism. To claim it, you don't actually have to be elite in any field or in any aspect of personal character. You simply have to look with disdain on mainstream, working-class culture and hold to liberal, cosmopolitan views.

We won't have a true elite until we return to more demanding, non-ideological forms of seeking distinction.

The post got a reaction from its intended targets over at Larvatus Prodeo which led to this follow up post on the same theme.

The argument has morphed from something I disagree with entirely, namely that we shouldn't blame an Anglo/Euro liberal elite because that would be attacking our own, to one that I mostly agree with, that as a society we've been conditioned to attack the white rank and file as part of a lazy status seeking.

My own brother and sister-in-law do this constantly. They feed their own sense of liberal superiority by sneering at bogans and rednecks who live in the suburbs and countryside.

But we have to be careful not to make the "don't fall into the trap of joining in the liberal attacks on rank and file whites" into too much of an idee fixe.

First, it's only one aspect of how the liberal order maintains itself. Second, there are times when any ethnic group has to be honest about its shortcomings.

The truth is, for instance, that there is a section of the white working class in the UK which is falling behind in terms of education and employment. There is a section of this class as well which is too welfare dependent. It's possible to recognise this truth out of a concern for signs of social decline within your own society rather than as a hostile liberal put down.

"The argument has morphed from something I disagree with entirely, namely that we shouldn't blame an Anglo/Euro liberal elite because that would be attacking our own"

Ok I got upset over social patholigist's General Handed Slander of All People Anglo. Read the post with a snakelike hiss. It's better that way.

I think we both agree that stating shit like that goes hand in hand with asian superiority and a bunch of really bad stuff. And people should think twice before mindlessly agree with posts like that.

Now...let's move on to criticism of Anglo Elites.

I divide this into two categories.

The present Anglo-Elites and the past Anglo-Elites.

Glenn Beck always says that Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive who started all this crap. I think that is historically inaccurate and a falsehood. Teddy Roosevelt helped get the 1924 immigration cutoff law enacted. He was a member of a group that was HORRIFIED that anglos would be displaced. Therefore, I believe that Glenn Beck is beating up on an old dead WASP because his jewish media handlers and their white liberal lackeye's won't let him do anything else. Beating up on an old white dead WASP guy is safe. It's accepted.

Do you see what liberalism has done? It has caged us into only being able to beat up on old dead white guys. We can't be racist against Obama or Martin Luther King, we can't be anti-lesbian to Elena, we can't be anti-semitic....so what is left?? AHHH! We are however allowed to beat up on our WASP white male ancestors.

And that is what I have a problem with.

So this whole "Looking to the our past ancestors and finding the seeds of liberalism in their writings" is a form of LIBERALISM. We do that because it is the ONLY thing we are allowed to do in polite society.

Are we trying to say private sector workers are selected on merit but public sector appointments are primarily political?

No, private sector appointments are also becoming political. There are an increasing number of laws covering appointments to boards of governance, for example, to ensure the "adequate representation" of women.

We do that because it is the ONLY thing we are allowed to do in polite society.

No, if I really believed that something besides liberalism was the underlying problem then I'd criticise it regardless of whether it was considered polite or not to do so.

Look, in Australia most young people are Anglo-Celtic heterosexuals. Traditionalism won't get far if we can't attract them. What holds them back is the whole climate of liberalism they've been brought up in. That's the "block" that has to be removed.

It's no use saying to them that non-Anglo-Celtic-Euro person X believed in open borders, diversity and multiculturalism if they are influenced by liberalism to believe that these are good and moral things. That'll just make person X sound like a good, progressive person.

We have to explain where the belief that open borders, diversity and multiculturalism comes from - that it derives from a specific political philosophy with dubious first principles, which then generate contradictory tenets of belief and which lead on logically to destructive outcomes.

I agree with everything you wrote. I will add though that certain groups of people (be it religious or ethnic or racial) are far more prone to liberalism then others.

I think I just want to just say don't be too trusting. I have developed a red-alert sensor that goes off when people insult my people too much yet at the same time pretend to be one of them. (aka social pathologist...LOL! I'm not letting up on that post..no anglo-celtic christian would have written that first post sorry!....and I'm still mad at the whole 'at my psychology practice you'd be shocked at how many christian wives cheat on their husbands' post from a few weeks/months ago...sorry no anglo-saxon christian would have written that either)

I do truly believe that certain types of people have 'infiltrated' our movements so that's why I'm the way I am.

at my psychology practice you'd be shocked at how many christian wives cheat on their husbands

Why do you take issue with that statement? You arguably would be shocked.

Furthermore, why do you assume that Christians are white? The majority of Christians are no longer white, and the majority of white people are no longer practicing Christians. There's a reason why the West is dying, after all.

Most white people are secular libertines or progressives now. Isn't that the root of the problem? The West wouldn't need to import so many people, if the white population was growing, rather than shrinking. But how else will they keep their welfare states going until they can leech every last bit of prosperity out of their countries before they die?

If you mean the truly devout, then I agree that they have a lower-than-average incidence of divorce, which one could use as a proxy for infidelity. But I think we'd still all be surprised.

There's nothing wrong with a nation wanting to control it's borders, and limit and define who's allowed into it. That's basic national security, and is one of the few legitimate purposes of a federal government (I'm an American).

If, however, the issue is, say mass immigration, I'm afraid I'm more likely to agree with Roissy than the African.

That was what I was asking, thank you for the clarification. It seemed like you were saying white people should side with other white people in everything, even if they're being wicked or just plain ridiculous.

As a black person, I get the same crap from other black people, which is why I was surprised to see a white person say such a thing. It's the old head-in-the-sand trick. It hasn't worked for us, so why should it work for you?

As for Christians all having to be white, I can only assume that you were being facetious. Jesus wasn't white, after all.

Alte2 (are you the same as Alte), I'm not "Anon". I was stating what seemed reasonable, not necessarily what I think Anon meant by her comment. I apologize if my interruption confused things.

As for the faith and race thing, well it's just like faith and family, faith and sex or faith and anything else bodily: Christ unites us all regardless of race, sex or class in spirit and in truth. If something's true, it's true for everyone; if the sun shines, it shines on us all, etc.

But just because every race, nation, sex, class must follow the same moral law on earth and shall one day face the same Judge, doesn't mean that races, nations, the sexes, classes etc. don't exist or have some function in the meantime.

Of course they do. Every father and every mother have specific duties and obligations, but no two mothers or fathers live out those duties or obligations in the same way.

Alte2 wrote, "It seemed like you were saying white people should side with other white people in everything, even if they're being wicked or just plain ridiculous."

No, not at all: that's total nonsense. To say that is tantamount to saying that there is no such thing as the truth at all. I could only say that such and such is something white people have said, not something that is true before white people were here and after we're gone.

But I don't think that's where any of us, including Anon, is coming from.

I'm just wary of being the world's whipping boy. And I don't think any race, Red, Black, Yellow or White should have to put up with that.

I can appreciate your skepticism, Alte2: looking out for one’s own can become plain old nepotism if loyalty becomes more important than the truth. But I don't believe that, and I don't think anyone here believes that either.

I would suggest it has more to do with Australia's immigration policies..

But we're not meant to question immigration policy here in Australia. Instead, we are meant to merely resign ourselves to an ever-increasing number of unassimilable immigrants arriving on our shores every year.

Australia has embarked on a course that will see this country become a predominately Asian nation within the next century without ever having had a proper public debate about whether we wanted to radically change our historic European-based society into an Asian one.

Pauline Hanson warned in the 1990s that Australia was in danger of being swamped by Asians. A decade earlier, Geoffrey Blainey had made a similar warning, albeit in a far more intellectual, restrained and polite manner. Both were shouted down and hounded.

They were merely "scaremongers", their critics claimed. Australia would not be "swamped," we were assured. Our nation's ethnic and cultural makeup would not be radically altered. Australia would not be transformed beyond recogition. Australia as we knew it then was safe. Only "racists" would argue otherwise.

Now, the exact same people are saying that yes, mass non-European immigration in recent decades has changed our nation forever. It’s good, and it’s anyway too late to do anything about it, so get used to it!

It's like exposing a healthy man to a virus (or a multitude of viruses), arguing that his immunity system is strong enough to resist. Then, when the man gets ill and finally dies (which was predictable all the way), they say that it was written in his fate - besides, what is so wrong about death, isn't it natural?

Alte2 is the same as Alte. My Alte posts haven't been showing up, for some reason.

Australia has embarked on a course that will see this country become a predominately Asian nation within the next century without ever having had a proper public debate about whether we wanted to radically change our historic European-based society into an Asian one.

Then make more babies. Seriously. Nature abhors a vacuum. It is darned near impossible to have such prime real estate empty of people and turn into a veritable old-folks home without the poorer, younger neighbors noticing. All European-dominated countries have this same problem.

Either you reproduce or someone else will, and you will be overrun. That is the simple lesson from history.

I'm in Germany right now, and the news and discussion are filled with frustration on this very subject. But they can't even consider getting rid of the foreigners, as long as the native population is halving in size every 50 years. The discussion won't turn until there is a viable alternative present. If not brown babies, than white ones. If white people don't want to have children (and they mostly don't, at least more than one per couple), then what is your alternative to immigration?

I can empathize with the German's frustration, as I am a German citizen and it makes me quite sad to see Germany overrun with foreigners who are unwilling to integrate, as it is changing the culture rapidly. But one must be realistic and understand what one must do to turn things around, otherwise it's just pointless whining.

Without a return to religion and procreation, nothing will change about the situation. Nothing at all. We will face genteel decline.

America still has a chance to turn things around, as does Oz, Ireland, and a few other countries.

But I nearly cried when I arrived at the Munich airport on Friday morning. Everyone here is so old. It's a giant retirement community. Gray hair as far as the eye can see. It's quite shocking when you've been gone for a while.

Germany is lost already, I think. Now it's just about keeping things going for as long as possible. We were out walking yesterday in town, and most of the younger people were brown, and the older people were white. Even many of the German men were with foreign wives, as the German women don't "do babies" anymore. My husband said, "Wow. I've never seen so many head scarves in one place before."