Re: Heading To Trauma

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:18 am

I'm tired, so forgive me if I make no sense, I just want to take a crack at it before I head to bed.

The bomb went off and with the results, the scientists here attempt to study the 'time bomb' and eventually leads to the creation of the Time Squad. Later on with more advance tech due to tachyon research, they eventually start sending agents back to help the past and gain more information.

OMG AS I THINK OF THIS, GT the bomb never went off, and therefore there was no need to research its effects, also meaning there was nothing to lead to the creation of the Time Squad, and without that research on tachyons, time travel didn't allow the future to mess with the past.

FUCKING SHIT BR, I'M GONG TO THINKING OF THIS ALL GOD DAMN NIGHT AND DAY TOMORROW, UNTIL I CAN FINALLY GET BACK HERE AND CHECK

Re: Heading To Trauma

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:42 am

What does it mean just for PpGD if the Time Squad doesn't understand the concept of the Linearity Bomb, especially regarding its creation?

To surpass the cosmological constant, you would need more energy than can be generated in what we understand to be the standard plane of reality. Tachyons are particles that by their nature more backwards through time, affecting information by the same principle that allows for the collision of neutrinos on baryonic matter, simply by how fast they move. From a non-subjective (Whovians everywhere are pulling out their "wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey" dictionary) perspective, the interaction still has a progression in one direction, but because of the energy switch, and the requirement of a gravity well (meaning you could have a teeny-tiny linearity bomb for any particulate matter with the complexity to carry its constituents), you have a... singularly notable effect the bomb produces. But we don't see anything on the surface.

The person we experience the disruption with the most obviously is knocked out at the moment of detonation. How can that be? On cue, Tennant "timey-wimey ball" words.

But go back to its creation. You need to think laterally here, which is a cruel answer in some ways, but I can't just. You know. TELL YA.

Re: Heading To Trauma

Re: Heading To Trauma

Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:34 am

Ok so here is what I've gathered so far. It is mostly comprised of my theory on how I think the bomb works and my time squad theory.

Tachyons are the particles that are believed to move at a speed that is faster than the speed of light. As its energy decreases, the speed at which tachyons travel begins to increase. The definition of an explosion is the release of energy in an extreme manner. The bomb that Bell attached to the power source required a large source of power that would result in a large enough explosion that would result in the release of a large amount of tachyons (the gravity well surrounding earth somehow helps the tachyons consume the planet). As the energy from the explosion starts to decrease, the tachyons that are released from the bomb begin to experience an increase in speed. The tachyons begin interacting with other particles and begins emitting Cherenkov radiation (which (according to Wikipedia) can be seen as a brilliant blue (see below for more detailed explaination)):

Wikipedia wrote: Unlike fluorescence or emission spectra that have characteristic spectral peaks, Cherenkov radiation is continuous. Around the visible spectrum, the relative intensity per unit frequency is approximately proportional to the frequency. That is, higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths) are more intense in Cherenkov radiation. This is why visible Cherenkov radiation is observed to be brilliant blue. In fact, most Cherenkov radiation is in the ultraviolet spectrum—it is only with sufficiently accelerated charges that it even becomes visible; the sensitivity of the human eye peaks at green, and is very low in the violet portion of the spectrum

Somehow the gravity well surrounding earth allows for the tachyons to spread throughout the planet. I was reading a discussion on physics forums that explained (sort of) why tachyons were more backwards than forwards. Honestly the conversation was starting to really go over my head, so I won't try to explain it, but I will leave an interesting quote from that forum:

physics forums wrote: The identification of an "emitter" and a "detector" depends on the frame of reference. You can think of the tachyon's presence at the emitter as one space-time event and its presence at the detector as another. The key here is that the space-time interval between these events is space-like, not time-like. That means that while one observer sees the "emission" event occurring before the "detection" event, you can easily find other reference frames in which the "detection" event comes first (and so you could claim that the tachyon moved backwards in time in that frame, although that's arbitrary, since its direction in time is not absolute). There will also be a frame in which they are simultaneous. In that frame the tachyon actually exists at all points along its path simultaneously, which is kind of what you'd expect for events that have space-like separations.

In the page titled "Belly of the Dragon", I noticed that Gir said something about bombing a quantum ___. I did some research, but the only thing that made sense (at least in this situation) were the quantum numbers. I tried looking it up with respect to time travel and the quantum number associated with angular momentum is what came up for some guy's theory on time travel. So maybe bomb messed up the angular momentum of Earth...(I don't know, I'm exhausted at the moment so most of this is coming out as gibberish).

Ok, now on to the Time squad. Here's an explanation of the purpose of the squad (from the wiki):

Wikipedia wrote:According to Larry 3000, an android time cop, "time is like a rope", and, as it is woven at one end, ages and gradually unravels and frays at the other. In the context of the show, this often means that historical figures have made different, and often anachronistic, choices in life (see free will), and as such will not be able to fulfill the role that history says they fulfilled.

From this definition, I presumed that Larry gave this definition with the presumption that time is completely linear (with the added belief that if I fix the past, then the current future will be maintained). However, we already have evidence proving that time is not completely linear in the case of PPGD and GT (or at least there is one flaw to the linear time theory within these two timelines). That flaw's name is Jack. He traveled from Feudal Japan to the Distant Future and then somehow landed in Megaville. His actions have created (at least) two different timelines (GT and PPGD). As Blood Lord said earlier, the future is ever changing.

In theory, one could say that the Time Squad could be changing the history of other timelines to match their own (I think). Even with this interference, however, it isn't guaranteed that the future of that particular timeline will come to the same future as their own. Within the scope of these comics, however, I think that it will mostly focus on the actions of one (Jack) and how his actions proceeded to change the timeline of the two universes.

What I'm thinking is that Jack could have managed to return to Feudal Japan in order to slay Aku, however he somehow ended up in modern day Megaville. I don't know how possible it is,but after thinking about it, I realized that killing Aku in the future, wouldn't change what has already occurred in the past. His defeat of Aku in the past, however, could either create a future without Aku or abolish the Future in which Aku ruled the world. After attempting to add Dr. X into these calculations, the whole thing became even more confusing. My guess would be that Dr X had a hand in whatever caused the time squad to come into existence. I do like Tenshi's suggestion of how the stop gap created here is what ultimately led to the creation of time squad though. I guess that I am agreeing with him since the bomb was made by Dr. X.

I think I found the information you mentioned before in other thread. Page "Let Fear Be Light" (Baccus (sp?) gloating over the Justice league (eventually?) fighting Vexus and the Cluster (plus some new enemy(could this new enemy be the rowdy ruff boys?))).

Now off to get some much needed rest. My apologies in advance for typos and gibberish.

EDIT: What does it mean for the PPGD if even the Time Squad doesn't understand the bomb? That is something I'm going to have to think about later. I think (know) I misinterpreted your question, and will try this again a little later.EDIT2:I couldn't take the glaring errors so I fixed most of them.

Re: Heading To Trauma

Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:29 pm

Imo, the Time Squad in the future don't understand the bomb, so they sent agents to the past, in an attempt to gather more information. I'm going to stop typing because I'm pretty much going to end up repeating what I said at the top.

Re: Heading To Trauma

Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:25 pm

Cerulean wrote:After attempting to add Dr. X into these calculations, the whole thing became even more confusing. My guess would be that Dr X had a hand in whatever caused the time squad to come into existence. I do like Tenshi's suggestion of how the stop gap created here is what ultimately led to the creation of time squad though. I guess that I am agreeing with him since the bomb was made by Dr. X.

:pApparently, I forgot that I did come up with an answer to that question as I was typing all of this earlier (lack of sleep and whatnot).

Re: Heading To Trauma

Re: Heading To Trauma

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:01 pm

It would be interesting if true. It'd also make me question Dr. X's motivation and schemes even more. Curiously enough, as I was reading through the comic pages, Sam said something that struck me as a little odd in page "A Scanner Snarkily." She said that Blossom was "a little idiot" going "arch-nemesis on them fast." I know that it simply means greatest enemy, but it just sticks out to me. It almost sounded as if Sam believed that they are the ones who are working for the greater good (since she believes that the Cluster way is the best way I guess that it was more for her benefit than anything).

Another thing that I forgot to mention, that really isn't that important, is the shape of the linearity bomb. Yes it looks like an hour glass, however it is also shaped like a hyperbola. Which, according to wikipedia, is the shape of the worldline of a tachyon:

Wikipedia wrote: A charged tachyon traveling in a vacuum therefore undergoes a constant proper time acceleration and, by necessity, its worldline forms a hyperbola in space-time. However, as we have seen, reducing a tachyon's energy increases its speed, so that the single hyperbola formed is of two oppositely charged tachyons with opposite momenta (same magnitude, opposite sign) which annihilate each other when they simultaneously reach infinite speed at the same place in space. (At infinite speed the two tachyons have no energy each and finite momentum of opposite direction, so no conservation laws are violated in their mutual annihilation. The time of annihilation is frame dependent.)

It struck me as interesting, I just forgot to add that in.

EDIT:The reason I bring Dr. X into this is because of something BeeAre said in the thread in the other forum:

BeeAre wrote:However, of all the Cluster representatives, Samantha is unique. But in a way that precedes Bell. A failure, to be frank. Dr. X's origins are pretty far-reaching as the means by which the various universes can begin overlapping. He is the Crossroads. It's even in his name.

He also said that the Samurai Jack side story involved at least 2 (maybe 3) other origin stories. I'm probably reaching, but when I read his quote (above) I automatically thought that he somehow made contact with Jack. With him being the Crossroads, he could have also had a hand in whatever caused the two timelines to split.

Last edited by Cerulean on Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Heading To Trauma

Re: Heading To Trauma

Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:45 pm

Unless everyone is in the underworld by-s-have-n't-be the time GT rolls around. Time travel paradox tense terms (huehuehue). Then the only thing in history is a vast singular moment of unrealized quantum states, nothing of value but their own superposition with no relativity to draw a conclusion on but the supposition of the lowest energy state. No relativity because there are no observers. Does anyone not notice how rarely Grim seems to be busy? Hue.

Re: Heading To Trauma

Re: Heading To Trauma

Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:07 am

@Cerulean: Your post has shined a little light on the bomb, but I'm still far from understanding any of it's effects in the story. Blood Lord Brought up some of BR's old posts in the Prediction Thread. Thought I'd bring them here:

Blood Lord wrote:The only thing from him that I found was that it dealt also with gravity wells:

BeeAre wrote:

Wallow Blacklake wrote:I can't help bet feel the explosion has been influenced by a KND episode.

Okay, we are going to have to do some serious Quantum Physics here.We can see in the second panel that the bomb does not seem to affect spaceso it must change the time parameter of reality within itself.

Consider that, indeed, time and space are one thing. I have a theory that time cannot exist without space BUT space could exist without time.If there were only space then nothing would change and we would be stuck in a never-ending momentuntil, somehow, time were to start again. In the real world, if time were to do this, we would never notice it. This is what the bomb may be able to do, stop or destroy time.

So why would Dr X do this? Who knows? He and the council may have found a way to be immune to this.They could set up an empire on Earth in literally "no time" and then start time again, with everyone as slaves.

....Sorry. I'm babbling again, aren't I?

OOOOO I love this. You're SO close. SO Close. nyoro~n ¦:3

but remember that spacetime being one thing means you can't simply create a scenario where one exists and not the other and not have the flipside, it just means you have to stretch how you perceive reality. perhaps the universe is solipsism with every particle passing through one singularity invoking all possibilities in this dimensionless singularity wherein your perspective takes place, and eventually the perspective of all events in reality that we perceive as happening in "other spaces".

fun shit to think about, the whole "there's only one electron in the universe, it's just time-travelling really well" thing.

i can give you a hint.

the bombs rely on gravity wells. i've been doin my quantum physics buffing, and the bombs have to be unique in design and execution. the earth and moon are now being subjected to energy fields that are changing something in their local spacetime.

In the coming chapters, someone will leave the earth. it'll give a big hint as to what is going on, if you're versed in space.

but plz don't like. post in the thread something i can't respond to, tho :X if you're right i can't just say YA! GJ. PM me if you want to really crack at it.

BeeAre wrote:

Valhallen wrote:

BeeAre wrote:the bombs rely on gravity wells. i've been doin my quantum physics buffing, and the bombs have to be unique in design and execution. the earth and moon are now being subjected to energy fields that are changing something in their local spacetime.

So... gridfire?

really thin gridfire, if i am interpreting the idea of it correctly. if not, then. um. no. :x

Re: Heading To Trauma

Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:32 pm

Wow. I never really noticed until I read this thread, just how worked up people are getting about this time bomb. If it is not too late, I have something to say about Jack. I really hope no one else has said this but I started skim reading near the end so I do not know. Jack is constantly trying to kill Aku/find a portal through time. In the future if he gets the chance he will kill Aku. Then try to go back home. But if he finds a time portal first then he will return home. From there he could kill Aku/ Aku could send him through time again assuming this power does not have a limit which is possible/ or Both of those things could happen. Jack could kill Aku but Aku still manages to toss him through time. For now I am only interested in the first outcome. Jack goes back to the past and kills Aku. This will then cause two divergent time paths that begin in feudal japan. A "bad" time line where Aku essentially runs the world but where cities like Townsvill were still created. So Aku went into hiding to recover from his near death or is ruling the world from the shadows. The other option is a "good" timeline where Aku died hundreds of years ago. This would still be possible with outcome 3 except after killing Aku Jack is tossed into the future again but maybe not as far as before. So now with his work done Jack retires and becomes a school teacher. So my theory is that GT exists in one of these timelines where as PPGD exists in the other. And the event that separates them is weather Jack kills Aku in the past or not.

I know that was a mouthful but I do hope someone cares enough to read it. I wish I could make a diagram to explain it more clearly.

Re: Heading To Trauma

Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:01 pm

Don't be so down on yourself ari. Of course you're not too late to share your opinion c: And don't worry about having a "mouthful" to say either, just speak what's on your mind. If what you have to say takes up more space than other posters then so be it.

I'll admit that I do get worked up about the bomb, especially when I feel like I've gotten a lead as to how it works. It takes me a while to decipher everything (especially with how cryptic BeeAre is (no offense) at times) but you won't learn unless you explore (or in this case, posting your opinions even if they've been said before) c:

I took the liberty of making a (very simple) chart explaining what you mentioned. The numbers represent the order of events.

A few pages (I think page 3?) back I also added 2 other charts for 2 other scenarios that could occur. I did mention in passing what you said, but you were more in depth than I was. I'll leave a quote here, just in case c:

Cerulean wrote:In scenario 1 (below), Jack causes the split while still in the Distant Future. After a series of events, he lands in either GT Megaville or PPGD Megaville.

In scenario 2 (below), Jack manages to travel to the past. However he lands in Megaville, instead of Feudal Japan. His actions in Megaville cause the timeline to branch into either GT Megaville or PPGD Megaville.

The third possibility involves Jack doing something while in Feudal Japan to cause the split (Didn't feel like making that one :p).

Personally, I've been leaning towards scenario 2. At least, that is how I've been imagining the story unfolding. However, I started thinking about other possibilities after reading your response.

EDIT:You helped me think about this in a new way ari. Here's my new theory (from prediction thread):

His success/failure in killing Aku is what I believe could have contributed to the Time Squad not existing. If Aku were to survive, then I doubt that he would risk the possibility of humans unlocking the mysteries of time travel. After all, Aku is capable of sending whomever he wishes to whichever point in time that he pleases. If humans were to somehow grasp the concept of time travel, and Jack were to discover it, then he (Jack) could simply go back to the second after he was forced to come to the distant future, and kill Aku while he was at his weakest. It gets confusing, however, when you think about why Jack wouldn't want to kill Aku (if he found a way back to the past). Mercy? Or was it due to outside interference? Or did Aku simply force Jack to go to GT Megaville before the final blow was struck? That's all I have so far. At the very least, it could explain why Clockwork exists in GT timeline, but the Time Squad doesn't exist.