Taught By

Pedro Lasch

Nato Thompson

Transcript

The first question I have for you is about solidarity in Artworks, right? You've written about this and talk about it in relation to different social rules [INAUDIBLE]. Can you tell us a bit more about the concept, and how it works? >> Sure, so the idea of the solidarity economy as a movement globally, is that we can see that another world is not only possible, but that it already exists. So the way people who think about solidarity economy, which is sometimes called the new economy, talk about it is, imagine economic practices of democracy in the workplace, of economic justice, of ecological sustainability, and the kind of social justice that we hope we see in the world. And rather than making a new blueprint or model that everyone has to follow, we can link up the small initiatives that are already brewing everywhere and work together to recognize that this network of initiatives is a movement. And that's the solidary economy. So the idea is, how do we apply this to the so-called captial A Artworld? And my hope is that, for example, the rise of collective practice, as something that's recognized more and more, is one step. And on top of that, if that's the way we produce our work, we can think about compensating ourselves and people we work with through slide and scale pricing or barter. And then we can sell that work and redistribute it in a way that is aligned with our principles. So through some kind of cooperative market or by giving it away freely. And then we imagine where the surplus goes. So hopefully, it goes back into the movement that we're part of and it doesn't just then dissipate or get extracted for a few people to benefit. >> Right. And we were talking about markets, and economies in ways, but generally, we're focusing on this model like how artists work with social structures, that we encounter in the every day. So your work has dealt with dwelling structures, housing, not just markets, right, of course housing, you said is a market. So how do you move from this role of artists where you care about, you've created a swing for the subway, you care about how things look and the objects of art. But you also care about these higher social structures. How do you balance a concern for both? >> Sure, yeah. It's a constant tension and I think one of the issues with working as an organizer is that when I'm often understood as an organizer and working with groups that don't concern themselves directly with the arts. There's a need for speed and not reflection that often makes it hard to utilize some of the history and legacies that I am attached to as an artist. I guess one way to think about it is that I see myself in relationship with this here conceptual art. So in conceptual art, we acknowledge that the medium and the form overdetermines the content. So there is a way that, as a conceptual artist, I'm interested at looking at a museum plaque and how the plaque, as a form itself, already conveys meaning before I put anything on it. And similarly, when we object with the subway, we can mimic the vernacular structures that exist in order to cross borders and slip into atmosphere that might otherwise be hostile toward us. So I guess I follow this history of interventionist work, and conceptual art, that looks at how, as an artist, I can nimbly appropriate the norms, and the roles, and rules, and the aesthetic vocabulary of any given situation in order to pass. But today, what is incredibly pressing is the need to find some kind of financing for the community land trust. Because we live in this moment where so many public structures have been privatized. So with a group of people including Segal who works for something like 596 Acres and Mark Scott who organizes Black Land Matters, and Risa Shoup from [INAUDIBLE]. We have been putting together a group of people who are interested in pooling money and political power. Which is a very neoliberal mechanism called a real estate investment cooperative. And we wish that we didn't need to pool our money in order to convince the city to transfer vacant properties to us, but unfortunately at this moment, it's the way we've been able to capture the attention of elected officials, so- >> [INAUDIBLE] That's like [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGH] >> So but yeah, the way that it works is that you give $10 and you get one vote, and you can make more investments that get a return, but you don't get extra votes. So you don't have extra control over the cooperative because you put in more money. You do receive a return because it is an investment cooperative. And this money is used to renovate or finance securing permanently affordable space and would be put in a community land trust. So a community land trust is just a way to protect space from the market into the future and have a mechanism for community oversight. So it's not your typical cooperative housing or commercial space where, if I'm on the board and everyone else is on the board and we're in a crisis, we can just sell. >> Right. >> This can not happen because there's people on the board who are from neighboring communities and who have a commitment that they've shown over the years to keeping space affordable. So we will not flip. >> Yeah. >> It can't be undone.

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