It's a minority but it can be EA-if there's physical distance between them and/or the BS gets involved early. No guarantee even with above.

I read a book about diff affairs and there was one (which fits my H) that sex would actually end the illusion so it's not consummated.

Your ex wanting to be friends is like asking a kidnapper to stay in touch when they let you go.

The type of fierce loyalty that I possess made me incapable of comprehending the level of disloyalty that he possessed

Posts: 1766 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Charlotte, NC

circlingthedrain♂ MemberMember # 25733

Posted: 5:12 AM, July 1st (Thursday), 2010

Everything that I have seen suggests that EAs either go physical or die. Long term EAs are few and far between. Usually an ongoing EA is a PA that has not been consumated yet due to logistics.

BH (me), 53
FWW (Her) 55
DD18, DS15
D-Day 12/23/2007
R going well

Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then --- Bob Seger

Posts: 332 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: East Coast

Star727♀ MemberMember # 22026

Posted: 10:59 AM, July 1st (Thursday), 2010

I believe in the early years of his affair with OW, it was PA. But 5 years ago he had prostate cancer surgery so that just about took care of the PA.

What really upset me - once D-Day #1 happened, he was determined to keep contact with her and it didnt matter how upset he was I was about it.

That is something that I dont think I will ever get over. We have had 3 D-Days over this one woman.

If she is so great and he is so willing to keep sneaking around with her and obviously she is that important to him, why didnt he just leave after D-Day? I gave him an out. I told him if he really would rather be with her, I would bow out of this 3 way because I don't share men and since his mind is on her, I'd rather be with a man whose mind is on me. But he wouldnt leave. For 3 D-Days, I've invited him to go to her if that is what makes him happy.

On the last D-Day, I told him if he doesnt leave and stays because he wants to stay married to me and I find out he's still in contact with her - he's going to need a police escort or ambulance out of our house. And I mean it. I'm not playing around anymore with this crazy shit.

He's acting better than he has in years except for the continued lack of affection from him. I just told him last weekend that I've had it with that. I told him either he has a problem within himself that he needs to address with a counselor, or he's still seeing OW. He didnt answer, but he started giving me more affection than normal.

I dont want to MAKE HIM show affection or love me. He doesnt have to if he really isnt feeling me. And, if thats the case, I really need him to just leave. I'll be fine. The kids will be fine without him with us.

Now back when D-Day #1 happened (2 years ago), he excused his behavior as it being an "ego thing" and he knew his boundaries and would never have sex with her. I asked him had he discussed our marriage with her and gave a resounding NO! Well, I'm having such a problem believing anything he says because what else could they talk about 5-7 times a day, 7 days a week???

He says they discussed what was going on at work. Well they are in different departments, their jobs have nothing to do with each other. They talked about politics, news current events. He claimed she never discussed her personal life with him. So if he didnt talk about his personal life and she didnt talk about her personal life, what the hell were they talking about so much, so many times.

He's just lying his ass off to me over and over again.

I have enjoyed being married to him. He's an extremely nice looking man, built really nice and the ladies think he's absolutely gorgeous and he knows this and he knows what the women think and say about him and he's eating it up.

But if I find another secret prepaid cell phone - all hell is gonna break out. I've given his 3 times to walk away from this marriage because of it - 3 times!!!! Finding another phone means he paid no attention and didnt take anything I said seriously and he will pay dearly for that.

He will find out how vindictive, destructive, evil, and dangerous an angry mad Black woman can be.

Well my WH told me that if I hadn't confronted him when I did the EA would have probably gone PA, because the OW was pushing for it. That little tidbit of info actually contradicted everything he had told me up to that point. He had always said it was strictly business, or he was just a shoulder to cry on or that he just enjoyed their conversations.

I can tell you with absolute and 100% certainty that my WS has been embroiled in a long-term EA and it has never gone to a PA. I know this because I proceeded to investigate my ass off when I initially became suspicious something was up. I immediatley researched and purchased a top notch VAR and also got my hands on all of both his and her text messages. Nothing there but some ego stroking and blatant flirting, as well as conversations that were way off limits because it invaded our marital boundaries. None the less this EA is just as painful as any other affair. So, truly for me he may has well have gone ahead and banged her. In my mind what was violated was the most intimate part of us and sometimes I do wonder will we ever be able to get there again and have that back?!

Hope this answers your questions,

Jeanne

BW:46
WH: 49
Married 28 years
3 Wonderful Boys 21, 25 & 26
LT EA OW #1 was a former BFF
10/24/2010 WS got on Facebook and found former best friend from 30+ years ago & now in an EA.

Posts: 204 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Wisconsin

dayatatime♀ MemberMember # 17090

Posted: 9:56 PM, July 21st (Wednesday), 2010

Likewise, I know WH's A was an EA only as I hacked into his email and found messages to his best friend about how he really should "hit it" and had sex with her so I would have something to be angry about. He felt I had no right to be angry about an EA, particularly with the way he rewrote marital history.

Believe me, if he had had sex with OW he would have been bragging about that. Instead he bragged to his best friend about what a great guy he was for not having sex when OW was offering it daily at work.

He confessed to me as he said he was unable to resist the urge to have sex with her. It was my job to help him keep his pants on despite his undying luuuuuvvve for OW and his hatred for everything I'd ever done wrong in this M.

I think he wanted me to kick him out so he could be free to have sex with her. Or he wanted to eat cake and enjoy her adoration without losing his family. Or maybe sex wasn't part of the deal... adoration was. She wasn't all that attractive ... good body but very masculine looking face and very desperate, aggressive demeanor. His previous girlfriends and I are totally opposite of this ... she is not his type.

WH said as messed up as he was at the time he knew turning the EA to PA would have made R impossible for us. He reasoned that an EA was no big deal.

So yes EAs only can happen but they suck.

BS 49
WH 52
Son 10
Dday 9.24.07

BS 52
WH 55
son 13
ddays 9/27/07 and 9/1/10

Posts: 776 | Registered: Nov 2007

Paper Roses♀ MemberMember # 19336

Posted: 1:54 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010

I am finally beginning to believe that my husband's E/a was at least mostly E/A well there you go! Mostly. He has said, "I am glad I did not consumate our love!" Which was supposed to make me feel better because he did not go that far? Who knows really? I think they did od things but perhaps not intercourse he drew a line there or something. He fell in love which is worse fo me any way.

Me-50-FBW-
He-45-FWh- sober 4 years

Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?

Posts: 623 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Los Angeles

Trying2Survive2♀ MemberMember # 25758

Posted: 5:23 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010

I'm a member of this group.
It will be 2 yrs in Jan that i found out about the "EA" online only. Second DDAY was 2 weeks ago. My husband admitted to a PA at the local fleabag hotel. I suffered in R for about a year, and was just starting to feel a bit better, when WAM, We are back to square one. What a nightmare. I'm so angry that I have to go back to the beginning, and I'm hurting so bad. My husband is 100 percent devoted to R, and during the first year, we really have reconnected and started to work on so many things that were wrong in our marriage. I'm so angry a lot of the time, but there is a small part of me that realizes that if we had not taken this year to reconnect, I would have probably walked out immediately knowing what I know now. I think the hardest thing right now is those never ending movies of the dirty deed. I've not gotten all the exact details of it, but will have to eventually before this is over. I'm hanging in there, but going through all of the stages of garbage just on another level this time. I honestly think it would be easier to walk, but have decided that is not what i want. I love my husband, and hope we can make it through this.
There's not a single person in the real world that I talk to about this, and would welcome discussions with other BS women to talk with.

Faithful Wife ME 52
FWH 47
DDAY #1 1/11/09 EA Online ONLY (NC)
DDAY #2 6/2010 Admitted PA with the same PIG(12/08)
"Anything may be betrayed, anyone may be forgiven, but not those who lack the courage of their own greatness"

Posts: 1376 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: USA

authenticnow♀ ModeratorMember # 16024

Posted: 6:57 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010

I had an EA that never turned PA. It was long distance and through IM chat and phone calls. We never met in person.
What stopped us? The emotional pull was sustaining the fantasy, for sure. And meeting in person would have certainly ruined the 'we are just friends' justification of the A that kept us going as long as we did.

Trust is earned when actions meet words. ---Chris Butler

Posts: 44212 | Registered: Sep 2007

Trying2Survive2♀ MemberMember # 25758

Posted: 7:18 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010

The emotional pull was sustaining the fantasy, for sure. And meeting in person would have certainly ruined the 'we are just friends' justification of the A that kept us going as long as we did.

hmm interesting, because that is exactly what my WH says happened once the EA turned to a PA it was DONE.

Faithful Wife ME 52
FWH 47
DDAY #1 1/11/09 EA Online ONLY (NC)
DDAY #2 6/2010 Admitted PA with the same PIG(12/08)
"Anything may be betrayed, anyone may be forgiven, but not those who lack the courage of their own greatness"

Posts: 1376 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: USA

torn2bits♀ MemberMember # 28376

Posted: 3:11 PM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010

My WHs EA is killing me more than the PA. I also just found out that he has yet another online profile to look for partners. I have an acct where I can go check to see what social networks his private email acct is attached to. I am just lost like the rest. We were fine up until his MLC started about a year ago. He is also a SA in total denial. I am exhausted and will probably not continue in the M.

He is showing no effort. His EA has made me believe he doesn't care for me any longer. He says "love ya" when we get off the phone. Horrible!

My FWW's EA was so close becoming a PA when I discovered it. Based on the correspondence I read, I have no doubt it would have become a PA if I had found out later.

In some ways, I thank my lucky stars.

However, in her pursuit of making it a PA, she wrote him messages that still haunt me to this day (over a year) and makes me wonder what was exchanged on the phone.

Me: BS
Her: FWW

Posts: 779 | Registered: Dec 2009

LostDad1974♂ New MemberMember # 29245

Posted: 3:47 PM, August 5th (Thursday), 2010

I am sad to say I am a card holding member of this club. My W and I have been married for 11 years – together for 6 years prior to that. We have been through a lot together: financial issues, a child with special needs and the death of her mother last year.

In April, we spent a week at the beach for her sister’s wedding. Throughout the week I started to see a different side of her. It almost seemed like she did not want me around. She wanted to send me to get the kids to bed so she could party with other friends – would not dance with me at the reception – you know, little things. I expressed to her how much this hurt me, and she did say that she did not realize she was doing it and it was never her intention to hurt me.

When we returned from the beach, the odd behavior started. Her cell phone was on her hip like a holster. She’d sleep with it and hide it when she would take a shower. She would often slam her laptop shut whenever I walked by. Her email and Facebook passwords were changed. Before I started to dig deep, I approached her and told her that I was scared that something was going on - that I knew things between us weren’t great – and that I wanted to change that. I questioned her about the odd behavior and she said it was because I was being over-bearing and she didn’t feel like she had any privacy. I didn’t think I was, but took her word for it. In a sense, I actually felt guilty for accusing her of something. She said I was crazy.

I made a strong effort to spend more time together – having a date night and spending time alone away from the kids. Sexual relations between us is very rare – she never seems to be interested. But when it does happen, it is pretty good. Unfortunately, the odd behavior did not end. So I felt it was time to dig deep. I am pretty savvy with computers and was able to install a program on her computer to monitor her use.
I found out that she had a private email account she was using for a profile she set up on an adult chat website. Oddly enough, I did not freak out right away. The profile was not an accurate account of who she was and where she lived, so I chalked it up to her having fantasy chat with random men across the country. What I did find that disturbed me, were private chat sessions she was having with the best friend – and also Best Man – of my BIL. She was the Maid of Honor at the wedding I spoke about above. Convenient, huh? The chat I found was somewhat innocent, talking about random stuff. I still gave her the benefit of the doubt – and figured I’d do some more investigating.

D-day started like any other day. I worked, we ate dinner and decided we would have physical relations – which was great! Less than an hour after that, I was working in my office and felt compelled to log onto her Facebook account. She was in the midst of a chat session with the best friend of my BIL. I was sickened by what I saw: a heated sexual conversation about how they wish they could be together. Not only that, she brought ME into the mix – stating that they didn’t want to get caught – not because it was wrong – but because “my husband is a girl and is overly-dramatic.” Two floors upstairs, less than an hour after having sex with her husband, and here she was saying all of the these things to this POS!! I flipped. I called her downstairs, told her I knew what was going on, that I was sick about the whole thing. And, yes, I was a bit dramatic – but who wouldn’t be?

At first, she was defensive because she knew she was caught and I invaded her privacy. She said it was purely fantasy and nothing did – and nothing would - ever happen physically. I told her I didn’t believe her and she has two options – end it and let’s fix our situation, or let me walk away. She said it meant nothing and she would end it. By the way, did I mention this was Father’s Day weekend?? Happy Father’s Day! I even started to chat with him THAT NIGHT and told him to stop being a HW and stop talking to my wife. He told me to man up. That didn't help my anger - so in retrospect, I should not have reached out to him. But my emotions took over and I was fuming!

The next day, we talked more. I told her that if she really wants a chance at working things out, she should take him off of Facebook, send him a message that it is over and, for God’s sake, tell this guy I am a good husband, hard worker and good father – not the girl she made me out to believe. But don’t do it because I am holding a gun to your head – do it because YOU feel it is the right thing to do. Don’t do it to appease me. I told her that I did not believe her that it would not have turned into a PA, because the guy is local and the chat logs tell a different story – that if they could have, they would have. She insisted it was still fantasy. She said she did find him attractive, but she was not in love with him and that he just made her feel attractive. I asked her if she texted him via cell phone. She said sometimes. I asked her how she kept it from me. She said it was under one of her girlfriend’s names. She showed me her phone and said I could check all of her contacts to ensure he was gone from her phone. Stupid me.

The next night (Father’s Day) her phone received a text late at night. She refused to let me see who it was and erased the message before either of us could see it. She said it was a friend from work. I knew who it was. To confirm, I got online and checked our bill – and sure enough – it was the POS Best Man. All she did was changed his name in the contacts from one friend to another. And the amount of texts between the two of them in this 2 month period was almost 900 tests!! Some full days worth – from the time I left for work to the time I got home. Texting and chatting was even going on with me in her presense!
The next morning, I told her I was leaving. I am not going to stay around and get hurt anymore. I took off my wedding ring and started packing my suitcase. She said she did not want me to go. That she was writing a letter that morning to send to the OG . Which she did. It was a actually really well-written. Stating she knows she was wrong, wanted to fix her marriage and that it was over between them. It almost kept me from leaving – until I went back on her computer and found that she had written him a second letter stating that I forced her to write the letter – that I am forcing her to delete him from Facebook – that I was forcing her to tell him I am not a girl. She told him to ignore it and cool off on the texting for awhile because I am checking it. That was enough for me. She was called every name in the book. I was sickened. Like I was living someone else’s life. I could not believe that after all of these years, it was like I didn’t even know who she was anymore.
That night, I left. Driving around aimlessly, not knowing what to do or where to go. Thinking that my life was over. My family is my life. All I would have left is my job. But what good is that if I have no one to share it with? She begged me to come home, so I did. When I got home, it was the first time throughout the weekend that I saw true emotions from her. Not this zombie that acted like she did nothing wrong. I told her I am really contemplating a divorce. She said she didn’t want that. I wasn’t, and am still not sure, if she wants to stay together for the kid’s sake and our financial sake – or if it’s because she still loves me. I still get the feeling I was in love with her more than she was with me. That I was attracted to her more than she was with me. To this date, I still don’t know.
It has been roughly a month and a half since D-Day. We are currently in the early stages of couple therapy and we are trying to work it out. It seems like a breakthrough for her because she doesn’t believe in therapy – but it was her idea. I still suffer every day. I am still in a very overly-obsessive state of mind. Wanting to know every detail. I find myself wanting to harm the POS OG – and I am not a violent person. I know these things are not good for the healing process, but it is how I feel.

I find myself extremely jealous, wanting the all day texts to be with me - wanting the online fun to be with me - trying to fill that void in her life. But it hasn't happened yet, which is making it hard for me to heal. She wanted it with him and not with me? WTF?

Based on her conversations with the OG, I know they did not meet … yet. I am not sure if this would have stayed an EA or would have turned into a PA. Either way, it hurts like hell. I still love her deeply. She is a good mother and I know it has been a rough year. I really hope and pray that we will come through this stronger, but it is going to be a long, hard process. My heart goes out to anyone in this position and hope I can find some support here from those in similar situations.

Lost Dad-i hear you and these EAs are disgustingly common-I hope you are posting in Just Found Out, etc for support.

Your ex wanting to be friends is like asking a kidnapper to stay in touch when they let you go.

The type of fierce loyalty that I possess made me incapable of comprehending the level of disloyalty that he possessed

Posts: 1766 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Charlotte, NC

survivorman♂ MemberMember # 29515

Posted: 3:56 PM, September 3rd (Friday), 2010

My WW's EA never became a PA, in part because it appeared mostly to be a fantasy on her part. OM was an xBF who she reconnected with online. Over the course of a month-plus of secret messaging/email, they got very intimate, but not in a romantic or sexual fashion. She and I were in a precarious situation ourselves, so even after I discovered their correspondence, I didn't insist on NC, figuring she'd just go underground again. (They were supposedly working out issues from a bad breakup. I know -- retch city.)

Fast forward a month, and she blindsides me with the announcement that she thinks that this MOM is open to a relationship, and that she'd like to "explore" it. Cue D-Day music. They never met -- he lives in another state -- and only ever talked twice on the phone, once VERY briefly.

Still, for two months, she pines after him, scours the Internet for "messages" that she thinks he's leaving her (he's wisely ended their email contact) and insists that she's leaving me. It doesn't end until I finally call OMW, learn that she knows all about the contact and that she thinks my WW is a stalker. OM issues an NC letter to WW and me, and two days later WW is seized by a horrible paranoia in which she believes that OM and his friends/colleagues/mob buddies are spying on and stalking her both online and even in person. The plus side: It pulls her out of the fog. I provide the best TLC I can, her paranoia gradually eases, and we begin the hard work of reconnecting.

Which generally seemed to be going well until she told me a week ago that she plans to move out as quickly as possible and get a divorce. But that's a story for another post.

After what you did I can't stay on
And I'll probably feel a whole lot better
When you're gone

Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: survivorman

Linzie4♀ New MemberMember # 29038

Posted: 10:37 PM, September 3rd (Friday), 2010

My husband had EA 25 years ago, with a woman in our church that he was giving voice lessons to (she asked him to give her free lessons since she couldn't afford them and wanted to prepare better for going on the mission field. (!) I think it lasted about a year, or less, before she and her husband left the church and moved out of the city. I only found out in Nov. 09. He swears they never had sex, but kissed, hugged, held hands, cuddled, and talked about her sex life with her husband (she told my husband she cried when she had sex with her husband...so my 'hero husband' offered her some suggestions !...Then the next week she told him she 'went wild' and wished she could share it with him. He 'says' he told her, that even if she would, he wouldn't let her. And he told me that the reason he said that to her was that he had her on a 'purity pedestal' and that would have destroyed it. I guess that if they had had sex, it would have ended the affair. I'm too old to start over...but I am having a problem making a decision to leave him; he says he never loved her, that it was just a 'crush' and a 'sexual fantasy' and now says her actions were those of a slut or whore. He is not blaming her for the affair, just has begun to realize how much she pursued him (he sat down one night and wrote, on his own, the various things that went on and were said, and came to his own conclusion that she was really the one who initiated the thing, with her flirting, and compliments to him, and then pursued him with lots of phone calls to his office, and a couple, at least, of gifts.) I really think this is corect, although, I am not excusing him at all, but she told me herself over the phone when I found out, that she just wanted my husband's time and attention because her husband was in graduate school and didn't have time for her... (My husband admits that he did tell her he loved her at the time, but realized later that it was him trying to get an ego boost from a younger woman, and that he never intended to have an affair, and never even thought about or considered getting a divorce.'

Any advice from anyone???

[This message edited by Linzie4 at 11:52 AM, October 4th (Monday)]

Posts: 14 | Registered: Jul 2010

Crazymama♀ MemberMember # 24957

Posted: 12:59 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010

(((Linzie4))) OMG. I am so sorry. My wh has been trying to find his long lost for 40 years now (all kept secret from me). She was a girlfriend in high school who ditched him, married his brother and then divorced him. I never realized anything about his feelings until I googled his name and a post came up with him looking for his long lost love. I don't know what advice I can offer you, but I don't know if I can get over this. It makes me feel like our whole married life was a sham. Take one day at a time right now. Most important is to take care of yourself and your sons. Does the ow's husband know about all this?

Me BS 57 DH WS 59 several ea's and search for long lost love
Married 38 yrs
D Day 07/08/09

Posts: 61 | Registered: Jul 2009

Linzie4♀ New MemberMember # 29038

Posted: 10:16 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010

I don't know for sure, but I don't think the OW's husband knows yet. I am struggling every day with trying to feel that I have been loved in my marriage but it is hard. Did your husband 'search' all through your marriage for his 'lost love' or just recently? Maybe it's just a 'phase' he's going through, and maybe counseling would help? Your story sounds more like mine that most I have read. I will keep you in my thoughts, and hope your husband comes to his senses.