So I just read a long article from Killer on why Detroit won't take Smith with the 13th pick. Do you think we should pass and gamble in the second round that he may be there at our pick? I'm thinking maybe we should take a LB in the 1st and back to back worthy CB in the 2nd and 3rd like Ras-Dowling and Chidwa if they're available. Your thoughts??

_________________The REAL "Lion King" and father to Simba

March 1st, 2011, 4:05 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Jimmy Smith Issues

I think Smith is to talented to fall to the Lions in the second round as there are enough teams that need help with the secondary where character doesn't seem to matter as much - think Cincy and Dallas to name a few.

The failed drug test was back in 2007, nearly four years ago now. He decision to skip the senior bowl was not a good one. But it is the football character that will really scare the Lions off with their first round choice.

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Jimmy Smith Issues

After watching the workouts of the CBs today, I think Brandon Harris would be a better pick for the Lions than Jimmy Smith. Harris seems to be more fluid and capable in man to man coverage. Smith seemed to be very stiff in the hips, and took too many extra steps in his turns. He looks fluid when watching him in games, so I don't know what happened. But from what I saw today, Smith would be better off playing in a zone heavy scheme, or moving to safety as a last resort. Harris looked much more smooth, and had a much quicker backpedal.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

Jimmy Smith is one of the most overrated players in the draft. He is billed as some sort of shut down corner, but in his four year career, only once did he crack the All Big-12 team. Fans are just penciling in because they're hot for a cornerback and Prince will likely be gone. How about taking a player that's actually good rather than reaching for a second round prospect in the middle of the first?

Anyone who watched the combine coverage probably caught it, but Deion Sanders made what some thought was a flub, but it could be very telling. He called Jimmy Smith a safety. When Mayock tried to correct him, he clarified. He said with the stiffness he came out of his breaks, that's the position he'd end up playing.

March 2nd, 2011, 10:48 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Jimmy Smith Issues

Strawberries&Chocolat wrote:

Jimmy Smith is one of the most overrated players in the draft. He is billed as some sort of shut down corner, but in his four year career, only once did he crack the All Big-12 team. Fans are just penciling in because they're hot for a cornerback and Prince will likely be gone. How about taking a player that's actually good rather than reaching for a second round prospect in the middle of the first?

I don't know about being over-rated. Some analysts see him as a late round one pick, some a mid round one, and still others see him going in mid round two. Folks have had differing opinions. Watching some of his game films, he seemed to be able to stick to some pretty good receivers down the field, and uses his long arms well to reach in and knock down passes. He looked MUCH stiffer at the Combine workouts. He struggled to flip his hips around, and didn't seem to backpedal particularly well.

It really doesn't matter how many times he's made All Big 12, or All America, or whatever. What does matter is what kind of physical skills he has, and whether those can be translated into success in the NFL. Smith CAN be a shutdown corner, he has the size and speed to do it, but I think he'd have to be in the right defensive scheme, likely a Cover 2. Otherwise, as pointed out, he'd likely become a safety. My issue with Smith being moved to safety is that he lacks a physical nature that is necessary to play safety in the NFL.

In my eyes, after the workouts, Brandon Harris has clearly established himself as the third CB for this draft, and I think would be a minimal reach at #13. He was highly rated after the season, then dropped after his poor first half against Notre Dame. I would even say that Jimmy Smith dropped to the number five or six corner in the draft, with Davon House moving above him, and possibly getting first round consideration now.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

March 2nd, 2011, 11:52 am

Killwill25

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:42 pmPosts: 2312Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Jimmy Smith Issues

I'm a believer in Brandon Harris as well

_________________Matthew Stafford is the only player in NFL history who is allowed to smoke cigarettes in the team huddle. He just chooses not to

March 2nd, 2011, 2:16 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Jimmy Smith Issues

IMO Harris doesn't have great size or great speed, and I'm not impressed with his ball skills. I'm not a big fan of him at #13 to be honest so lets see if I warm up to him more by the time the draft rolls around.

I do think he is a better man coverage fit after watching him yesterday, but still think his value is in the 20's - not 13.

Overall I consider Brandon Harris the second best corner in the draft. Like him better than Amukamara, on film and at the combine. More fluid, aggressive in run support, runs almost as fast, and his ball skills might be better. That being said, I still have reservations about the Lions taking either of these corners at 13. Is either one a true #1 shutdown corner in the future?

March 2nd, 2011, 9:29 pm

Strawberries&Chocolat

National Champion

Joined: April 12th, 2005, 12:35 amPosts: 881Location: Boston, MA

Re: Jimmy Smith Issues

m2karateman wrote:

Strawberries&Chocolat wrote:

Jimmy Smith is one of the most overrated players in the draft. He is billed as some sort of shut down corner, but in his four year career, only once did he crack the All Big-12 team. Fans are just penciling in because they're hot for a cornerback and Prince will likely be gone. How about taking a player that's actually good rather than reaching for a second round prospect in the middle of the first?

I don't know about being over-rated. Some analysts see him as a late round one pick, some a mid round one, and still others see him going in mid round two. Folks have had differing opinions. Watching some of his game films, he seemed to be able to stick to some pretty good receivers down the field, and uses his long arms well to reach in and knock down passes. He looked MUCH stiffer at the Combine workouts. He struggled to flip his hips around, and didn't seem to backpedal particularly well.

It really doesn't matter how many times he's made All Big 12, or All America, or whatever. What does matter is what kind of physical skills he has, and whether those can be translated into success in the NFL. Smith CAN be a shutdown corner, he has the size and speed to do it, but I think he'd have to be in the right defensive scheme, likely a Cover 2. Otherwise, as pointed out, he'd likely become a safety. My issue with Smith being moved to safety is that he lacks a physical nature that is necessary to play safety in the NFL.

In my eyes, after the workouts, Brandon Harris has clearly established himself as the third CB for this draft, and I think would be a minimal reach at #13. He was highly rated after the season, then dropped after his poor first half against Notre Dame. I would even say that Jimmy Smith dropped to the number five or six corner in the draft, with Davon House moving above him, and possibly getting first round consideration now.

Actually, the consistency with which a cornerback wins all conference awards does matter. I have been working on a project that I'm pretty excited about and all-conference awards has emerged as the most predictive factor for cornerback success.

Another thing that irks me about Smith is this claim that he only allowed 11 receptions in his last two years. This was a statistic that was promulgated by the Colorado athletic department and is almost certainly bunk. The coaches vote for the all Big-12 conference teams, and if Smith was such a force that he absolutely shut down one side of the field, don't you think that he would have been first team Big 12? As it was, he didn't even crack the second team. Alright, end of rant.

I'm sorry to harp on a small point, especially because I actually think you're spot on with your assessment of this corner class. My numbers, to at least some extent (and better than Smith), like the same guys you do: Harris and House. If people are interested in the research, I could post some of my preliminary findings. In later rounds, Justin Rogers is definitely the way to go (and it's not just the numbers--he looked really good in the East-West shrine game practices).

I am very interesting in seeing your Numbers. Personally in the First Rd I Like Peterson, Amukamara and Harris. Curious what your #s have to say about them and others further down the list. Please do share.

"I'd say it's 50-50 on the kid," an executive in personnel for an AFC team said of Smith, a player of limitless talent and serious character flaws.

This month, the Journal Sentinel asked 24 personnel people whether they would draft Smith in the first two rounds. Thirteen said they would; 11 said they would not.

"He's as athletically gifted as Asomugha," an NFC personnel director said. "He's got all the ability in the world. He also could be a supreme punk."

The physical parallels between Asomugha, a perennial Pro Bowl cornerback for the Oakland Raiders, and Smith are stunning.

Each stands 6 feet 2 1/2 inches and weighs 210 pounds, their 40-yard dash times were within 0.02 of each other, their scores on the Wonderlic intelligence test were within two points, and their vertical and broad jumps were almost identical.

"I like the comparison," Smith said in February at the combine. "I think I have better ball skills than he does, though."

The dramatic difference in testing was Smith's 24-16 margin in repetitions on the bench press.

"I think Jimmy Smith will be a shutdown corner," said Don Gregory, director of college scouting for the Carolina Panthers. "He's got that Rod Woodson size. He's a press guy. When he wants to play, I think he can be one of the best."

If Smith had no skeletons in his closet, some scouts suggested he might be rated even higher than Patrick Peterson, who led the way in a Journal Sentinel poll to determine the best player in the draft.

"I think (Smith) is going to be an elite corner," said Eric DeCosta, the Baltimore Ravens' director of player personnel.

Talib was an enormous character risk in 2008 when Tampa Bay selected him with the 20th pick. But while Talib has been a fine player, he has repeatedly embarrassed the organization on and off the field with behavior that could get him released soon.

"Jimmy Smith is a carbon copy of Aqib Talib," said an executive who has had dealings with both players. "This guy will be the same way."

Teams are well aware that Smith flunked three drug tests at Colorado, and he told at least one club that one of the three was for misusing codeine.

Smith also told teams of his two alcohol-related violations, the pair of abortions that were paid for by parents of women he impregnated and an arrest for third-degree assault in a restaurant.

It was telling, said one scout, that Southern California and UCLA chose not to recruit Smith out of what he called a "bad, bad, bad" neighborhood just east of Los Angeles. Some of Smith's family members have been in and out of jail.

In January, Smith reportedly turned down an invitation to play at the Senior Bowl. At about the same time, he fired agent Peter Schaeffer and hired Drew Rosenhaus.

"He speaks well," one evaluator said, noting that Smith earned his degree from Colorado. "But when you get into the background stuff, you don't know if he can turn things around."

Talib was one of 12 players with behavioral problems who were ranked among the top 10 cornerbacks in the previous 10 drafts.

As teams ruminate about Smith, they can ponder the track records of this group, all of whom were scrutinized just as Smith is now: Fred Smoot and Will Peterson in 2001, Derek Ross in 2002, Drayton Florence in 2003, Ahmad Carroll and Joey Thomas in 2004, Pac Man Jones in 2005, Jimmy Williams in 2006, Eric Wright in 2007, Vontae Davis in 2009 and Jerome Murphy in 2010.

"Whoever takes him will be a little nervous," another AFC personnel director said. "But this stuff happened three years ago. I really think he's going in the first (round) because he's too talented, but we wouldn't be talking about where he was going to go if he didn't have that stuff."

Other than Asomugha, the only cornerbacks as tall or taller than Smith drafted in the last 15 years were Sean Smith (2009) and Rashard Anderson and Michael Hawthorne, both in 2000.

Even more unusual is the 219 pounds carried by Peterson at LSU's pro day (he was 218 at the combine). The only drafted cornerbacks within five pounds of Peterson in the past 15 years were Williams (215) and Marcus Washington (218), New England's sixth-round pick in 1999. Neither made the grade.

"I don't recall one like that in the modern era," said Thomas Dimitroff, general manager of the Atlanta Falcons. "Some of those big guys from the past, like Emmitt Thomas, played when they were called corner-linebackers, right?

"Peterson will have a heck of a career given his speed and athleticism and ability to make plays on the ball."

In the Journal Sentinel cornerback poll of 22 scouts, Peterson received 19 first-place votes and led with 107 points.

what a bunch of bunk by a hack writer.the only real issue's jimmy had was the 2 arrests and the one failed drug test.this hack writer is just spreading team bullshit.the same thing happened to warren sapp the day before the draft.these news guys looking for a story gets slipped some false info from teams and they spread it like wild fire.