For those beginning to consider "some sort of compromise" with Trump and

his crew: STOP! Can you even IMAGINE how extreme he will be if we roll over and he can crow about it to the knuckle draggers?

The die is about to be cast. Let it ride.

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customerserviceguy (18,495 posts)

5. So, what's the endgame?

Two more years of shutdown, lifted only when a Democratic president takes office on January 20, 2021?

I don't think it will go on that long, but if the case preserving DACA (for now) makes it to the SCOTUS, and there's a 5-4 decision that what one president can do with an executive order, another president can undo at will, then he'll have an even stronger negotiating position.

Something has to come about where both sides can save face, or we will have two more years of extreme damage from this wrecking ball of a presidency.

let it burn...

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Thu Jan 10, 2019, 01:54 PMgratuitous (63,573 posts)

8. We're going to have two more years of extreme damage any way you slice it

Giving in to Trump's terrorist demand to light $5 billion on fire will do nothing to ameliorate that one way or the other, from what I can see. This is the first big test for oversight and accountability for Trump under a new regime. The Republican majorities in the House and Senate failed miserably at their responsibility, and that's how we got where we are now. If we're going to change the direction of things, the House Democrats must hold their position and force Trump to back down. If he prevails on this, there will be no stopping him. Any new demand will use this as the template to force a Democratic capitulation, and Trump will go further and further each time.

The Democrats have several advantages: First, public opinion is solidly in their corner. Second, Democratic voters went to the polls in record numbers just two months ago demanding a change. We got that change, and it's up to us to hold onto it by having the backs of our party's leaders. Third, even the Republicans are beginning to voice second thoughts about supporting Trump no matter what. No fewer than four Republican Senators have called for an end to the shutdown, and Trump is increasingly isolated in his position. Even some in the media are beginning to affix blame without the standard "both sides" dodge.

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Star Member annabanana (52,763 posts)

29. Just how long do you think federal employees can hold on?

There will BE NO GOVERNMENT LEFT if it goes on that long. I expect that is just exactly what Putin wants.

edit: This is Miller & Bannon's "deconstruction of the administrative state" in action people.

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PubliusEnigma (818 posts)

39. Trump will declare a National Emergency and still no wall will be built. That's the Endgame.

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Thu Jan 10, 2019, 02:45 PMCaliman73 (4,037 posts)

23. Tantamount to giving a hostage taker what he wants.

The wall, as others have said, is completely pointless. It is not a waste of 5 billion dollars it is a waste of at least 25 billion dollars to build and billions upon billions for maintenance.

Trump is trying to sell America a timeshare and no one is talking about it. They are focused on 5 billion dollars which is a lot of money, but relatively little within the budget process. The problem is that it ISN'T only 5 billion dollars. 5 billion is to START the wall. Estimates have been made of 20 billion dollars on the low end and up to 100 billion for the completion of the wall itself. There were also estimates of an additional 35 billion dollars for maintenance over the first 7 years. Cost of maintenance would certainly go up as the wall ages as well. It is a boondogle which would serve no purpose in stemming undocumented immigration.

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Mr.Bill (5,704 posts)

46. Any negotiating about anything

is a waste of time. Trump is a pathological liar who doesn't even honor his end of a deal anyway.

Pelosi and Schumer should say so every time they get in front of a microphone and should never meet with him again for any reason whatsoever.

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Star Member SCVDem (3,652 posts)

57. Is anyone else thinking of

Neville Chamberlain?

The lesson?

Never appease a dictator!

Never!

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Star Member calimary (51,073 posts)

65. Not an inch do you give, Dems! Consider that an order. From YOUR EMPLOYERS.

Your employers are the U.S. taxpayers.

And donald, you may have SAID you’re not taking your yearly salary... (which is 400-grand. PLUS a 50-thousand dollar expense account, a $100,000 non-taxable travel account, and another 19-thousand dollars for entertainment. I looked it up) ...but you lie so damn often that nobody can seriously believe ANYTHING you’ve said or declared or offered - or promised! (Unless they’re among the willfully stupid, in denial, or just don’t care! OR they just haven’t personally felt any pain yet.)

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CozyMystery (367 posts)

77. I agree. No compromising with a terroristic prez.

My family is impacted by the shutdown. We have been waiting for payment since before Thanksgiving, and the agency that pays us ran out of money by mid-December. Just before Thanksgiving, we lost all our frozen food (2 large freezers) due to a power outage that lasted nearly a week. In 2 weeks, when my turn at the food bank comes up, I'm going there. We have enough food to last until then. We are making it by borrowing, but our adult children's money has now run out.

The only working phone is my cell phone b/c my daughter paid the bill. The business landlines and cell phones have been shut off for 2 weeks due to nonpayment.

Our emergency fund is also gone.

So I'm not talking as something who has it made. My opinion is solely based on the fact that Trump is a terrorist and on what I think will be best for the people of this country.

I have more opinions, but I would probably get kicked off of DU if I expressed them. I am furious that we, as a nation, are being held hostage by an illegally elected president.

wait... what part of the government ran out of money in mid November?

Logged

The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

The wall, as others have said, is completely pointless. It is not a waste of 5 billion dollars it is a waste of at least 25 billion dollars to build and billions upon billions for maintenance.

Trump is trying to sell America a timeshare and no one is talking about it. They are focused on 5 billion dollars which is a lot of money, but relatively little within the budget process. The problem is that it ISN'T only 5 billion dollars. 5 billion is to START the wall. Estimates have been made of 20 billion dollars on the low end and up to 100 billion for the completion of the wall itself. There were also estimates of an additional 35 billion dollars for maintenance over the first 7 years. Cost of maintenance would certainly go up as the wall ages as well. It is a boondogle which would serve no purpose in stemming undocumented immigration.

Wow ... sounds like Trump is creating yet more jobs! Long term, well paying, government jobs, and DUmiies are upset? Obama couldn’t do that WITH the money he was give for ‘shovel ready’ jobs, if I remember right.

KC

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Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

The longer The Ds stonewall, the more people learn about their previous votes in favor of barriers, the more their gum-flapping calling border security a crisis are rediscovered and heard. IOW. more Americans will see and hear proof that the Ds are putting their hatred of Trump above the good of the nation. The MSM are full shill ahead, but they no longer have their information monopoly of 30 years ago.

The longer The Ds stonewall, the more people learn about their previous votes in favor of barriers, the more their gum-flapping calling border security a crisis are rediscovered and heard. IOW. more Americans will see and hear proof that the Ds are putting their hatred of Trump above the good of the nation. The MSM are full shill ahead, but they no longer have their information monopoly of 30 years ago.

Heck we could put the furloughed workers back to work immediately with back pay ..........helping build the wall. I expect that will give them a greater appreciation of how lucky they truly are to be on paid vacation.

My mole/sock puppet, Ocasio-Cortez, wants a 42-trillion dollar budget for her windmill powered buses and her "single"-payer medical. That's, like, you know, 8,400 times as much as a puny wall would cost.

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"The main purpose of the Democrat Party and the Left is to destroy the United States, transform Western Civilization to a tribal-based dystopia, and to ultimately kill all conservatives and non progressives."- Jonah Kyle