I hate to be the one to break it to you, but I'm not sure anything outside of a T3-4 is going to work for you unless you raise that GPA up to something close to a 3.0 and get an LSAT of 170 or above. Only then will T1-T2 be a possibility.

Your ugrad institution doesn't matter. I also hate to be the one to break that to you... You only get a mild boost if you attend HYPS, which you don't.

I'd take the next year to raise that GPA as much as possible, aim for a 170, and apply after a gap year with work experience.

Uschoolqb10 wrote:Also, I have been reading around a little bit and have come to the conclusion that it doesn't necessarily matter what Undergraduate institution you attend? How does that make sense? I have many friends from back home (South Florida) who go to schools like FAU and FIU and they have 3.6 GPAs and such, but they're idiots and have multiple choice scantron tests as a final exam. I have 4 15 to 20 page papers and 1 or 2 fill in the blank/true or false/essay style tests. How are the GPAs considered equivalent? If I took the same classes my friends take back home, I would EASILY have a 4.0 GPA, with minimal amounts of studying as well. It just seems unrealistic and unfair to students attending more difficult schools who have to compare to kids attending these easy colleges and the GPAs are weighed the same way.

That's my vent for the day. Sorry if I bothered anyone! And, maybe someone has an explanation for me as well?

Those are some strong assumptions you're making without ever having taken a class at these schools.

Also, the physics major down the hall thinks your middling LAC degree is shit and he thinks you had it easy in college. See how this works?

jrose5 wrote:I hate to be the one to break it to you, but I'm not sure anything outside of a T3-4 is going to work for you unless you raise that GPA up to something close to a 3.0 and get an LSAT of 170 or above. Only then will T1-T2 be a possibility.

Your ugrad institution doesn't matter. I also hate to be the one to break that to you... You only get a mild boost if you attend HYPS, which you don't.

I'd take the next year to raise that GPA as much as possible, aim for a 170, and apply after a gap year with work experience.

Awesomely horrifying advice. Stop giving it.

I attend a school ranked in the 50s with a 2.33 UGPA (in history, from a good state school) and a 166 LSAT. I got into schools ranked higher than the one I attend now. My resume was not particularly special and I had a downward trend. I was admitted with the last shown semester of college coming out to a 1.1 GPA.

jrose5 wrote:I hate to be the one to break it to you, but I'm not sure anything outside of a T3-4 is going to work for you unless you raise that GPA up to something close to a 3.0 and get an LSAT of 170 or above. Only then will T1-T2 be a possibility.

Your ugrad institution doesn't matter. I also hate to be the one to break that to you... You only get a mild boost if you attend HYPS, which you don't.

I'd take the next year to raise that GPA as much as possible, aim for a 170, and apply after a gap year with work experience.

Awesomely horrifying advice. Stop giving it.

I attend a school ranked in the 50s with a 2.33 UGPA (in history, from a good state school) and a 166 LSAT. I got into schools ranked higher than the one I attend now. My resume was not particularly special and I had a downward trend. I was admitted with the last shown semester of college coming out to a 1.1 GPA.

Oops, my mistake. I actually thought T2s were more competitive than that.

jrose5 wrote:I hate to be the one to break it to you, but I'm not sure anything outside of a T3-4 is going to work for you unless you raise that GPA up to something close to a 3.0 and get an LSAT of 170 or above. Only then will T1-T2 be a possibility.

Your ugrad institution doesn't matter. I also hate to be the one to break that to you... You only get a mild boost if you attend HYPS, which you don't.

I'd take the next year to raise that GPA as much as possible, aim for a 170, and apply after a gap year with work experience.

Awesomely horrifying advice. Stop giving it.

I attend a school ranked in the 50s with a 2.33 UGPA (in history, from a good state school) and a 166 LSAT. I got into schools ranked higher than the one I attend now. My resume was not particularly special and I had a downward trend. I was admitted with the last shown semester of college coming out to a 1.1 GPA.

Oops, my mistake. I actually thought T2s were more competitive than that.

They are competitive, but so is a good LSAT. It's the single biggest factor and mine was 4 points above the 75% cutoff. That puts me likely in the top 10% of LSAT takers to enroll in a given year. Without a good LSAT score, you'd obviously be sunk with a sub-3.00 GPA.

Moral of the story, OP, is to work your tail off and get 165+ on the LSAT. I ended up scoring 173 on my retake (after I'd gotten into a couple of places with the 166), and I was in the ~155 range on a cold diagnostic. You can pump that score up 10 points if you put in the time.

Uschoolqb10 wrote:Well, I have taken summer classes at FAU and BY FAR, the classes I took are much easier than some of the easiest courses at my school. Not badmouthing state schools, I just thinking it isn't fair to students like me who have a much more rigorous curriculum. I have seen my buddies' tests, homework assignments, syllabus, etc., and I am sure there is a big difference in difficulty of work.

Anyway, I want to apply this fall and go straight into law school and I have my areas I am thinking of applying to, I just don't know what ranking of school is realistic. I am thinking of South Florida (east coast), Los Angeles, San Diego, Northern CA, NC and the Northeast, just because of the amount of schools. Could you all give me some schools in these areas that would be a realistic attempt for admission with a 2.55 GPA/160 LSAT? And then possibly a 2.7 GPA/165 LSAT (I believe after a prep course, I can definittely bring it up 5 or so points).

Again, I appreciate the help and thanks for the quick responses. Quite shocking actually!

at the continued insistence from a liberal arts major that his UGPA was the result of "rigorous" curriculum.

jrose5 wrote:I hate to be the one to break it to you, but I'm not sure anything outside of a T3-4 is going to work for you unless you raise that GPA up to something close to a 3.0 and get an LSAT of 170 or above. Only then will T1-T2 be a possibility.

Your ugrad institution doesn't matter. I also hate to be the one to break that to you... You only get a mild boost if you attend HYPS, which you don't.

I'd take the next year to raise that GPA as much as possible, aim for a 170, and apply after a gap year with work experience.

Awesomely horrifying advice. Stop giving it.

I attend a school ranked in the 50s with a 2.33 UGPA (in history, from a good state school) and a 166 LSAT. I got into schools ranked higher than the one I attend now. My resume was not particularly special and I had a downward trend. I was admitted with the last shown semester of college coming out to a 1.1 GPA.

Oops, my mistake. I actually thought T2s were more competitive than that.

They are competitive, but so is a good LSAT. It's the single biggest factor and mine was 4 points above the 75% cutoff. That puts me likely in the top 10% of LSAT takers to enroll in a given year. Without a good LSAT score, you'd obviously be sunk with a sub-3.00 GPA.

Moral of the story, OP, is to work your tail off and get 165+ on the LSAT. I ended up scoring 173 on my retake (after I'd gotten into a couple of places with the 166), and I was in the ~155 range on a cold diagnostic. You can pump that score up 10 points if you put in the time.

The actual moral of the story is to get a 170+ and raise that GPA above a 3.0 and aim for a T14 school or WUSTTTL with $$.

First, OP is - of course - right that some schools have much more rigorous and demanding standards than others, but let's not generalize. I worked as the TA for a humanities course in the honors college at a well-known state school: those kids were smart and the professor made them work very hard for their grades (multiple papers, etc - I had to grade them). On the other hand, a close friend of mine works at a small state school you haven't heard of: almost all the assessment involves scantron sheets - the kids complain if they are assigned one paper in a humanities course.

Also, OP: there is a whole forum on LSAT prep. Take a diagnostic test, buy the Powerscore Bibles for whatever sections you struggle with, and, once you have completed those, work through practice tests until your fingers bleed.

My friend goes to a USF which is a state school and I am sure he would laugh at your supposed hard courses. I doubt they touch his Engineering courses.

Honestly unless you have some type of science/engineering background the quality of your undergrad really isn't going to make a difference. Liberal arts are all much easier then hard sciences. (this coming from someone with a Bachelor's in Psychology and a Master's in social studies education)

As someone about to graduate magna cum laude with a bachelor of science, I'm just gonna tell you straight up that law schools tend to be GPA/LSAT whores (excuse the language). My acceptances reflect that I got no boost - I got into schools with medians around or below my LSAT and GPA. Except UMich maybe - I hear they don't really accept people w/o a Why UMich essay and I got in without one...

I think the only thing I got a boost in was schollies, and even then it wasn't HUGE, just noticeable...

Also, I go to a top 20 university and I have a some softs (research-related), so I don't really think there was anything that was hurting my app... I simply just did not get a boost from my science major.

Hey, Most of this advice has been really bad. Yes GPA matters, and no they won't care how hard your school is. MUCH MORE IMPORTANT: (1) the LSAT counts for far more than your GPA and (2) a 160 without studying is very good. I scored below that and broke 170+ in one month of hard studying. You should work your ass off. Search this site for good study guides to the LSAT. Numerous high scorers have posted about their routines and given advice. Generally, it seems that with a good routine you can improve from your diagnostic about 12 or 13 points, however some (a lot here) have done much more. Good luck.

Flanker1067 wrote:Hey, Most of this advice has been really bad. Yes GPA matters, and no they won't care how hard your school is. MUCH MORE IMPORTANT: (1) the LSAT counts for far more than your GPA and (2) a 160 without studying is very good. I scored below that and broke 170+ in one month of hard studying. You should work your ass off. Search this site for good study guides to the LSAT. Numerous high scorers have posted about their routines and given advice. Generally, it seems that with a good routine you can improve from your diagnostic about 12 or 13 points, however some (a lot here) have done much more. Good luck.

Actually, I thought JamMaster's advice was pretty good.

OP isn't shut out from tier 2 or even some of the lower tier 1 schools... provided that he score well above 170, as I believe has already been mention on this thread.

1) Get 165 or above for $$ at T2, acceptance off WL at a T1 or two. Get 170 or above and get into lower T1 with $, T2 with $$$$, or upper T1 without schollies (but not T10, I think your GPA is unrealistic for that barring nobel prize).2) Work your butt off for improved grades next semester... it will give you something to send in an LOCI.3) I recommend Powerscore. They saved my life. Also, go to the threads on this on TLS.4) Stop being an elitist jerk about your UG institution. Law schools don't care, and I don't care other than it bothers me that you somehow think you are superior just because your "tests are harder" or some BS like that. If that wasn't what you meant, it is sure what you sounded like. And, yeah, it is unfair. So is most of life.

Also, Number one assumes you are NOT URM. If you are things will change for the better.

Uschoolqb10 wrote:I'm a Cuban-American. But that makes sense that Mexicans and Puerto Ricans receive the most assistance.

This can be used to make outstanding diversity statements, however. You can use that to your advantage and make it more likely for them to take a second look despite your GPA.

Also, before you take our word on it I would look into whether or not Cuban descent makes a difference re: URM. I don't think it does, but it doesn't hurt to check.

ETA: Also consider a strong regional T3 (not one in a market with other real competition) if you get 165-170. You might get a full ride scholarship. Provided it is the only school in the area and you would be graduating debt free, this is definitely worth considering.