At 01:22 AM 1/25/98 EST, you wrote:
>Dan
>
>I aint old (16) but heres my 2 cents.
>There are many statistics that can play a factor when buying an automobile,
>even the shear age of the person can play a factor.
>If its a in mint condition I would ask 2000 give or take.
>If its in rodding shape start round 3500
>Check the engine out first it may look good but cracks can be smaller then a
>hair.
>When you go to negotiate be Firm, you might be better off doing it offer the
>phone, (so you can counsult with someone else). Or if you do it in person
>bring your local mechanic especially if hes got a car 2, they can help you out
>a lot. If you start high they well jump on you. If you start low you and
>they dont except, you might collapse, then they well take major advantage of
>you.
>
> Anyway Good luck
>Ethan

Wow, great advice. Just to add a bit, never pay more than you want to.
When I worked excavating a wise old geezer who worked with us was bargaining
with somebody and when told the asking price, he said,

"Well, for that price you don't want to SELL it, sounds like for that price
you want to KEEP it!"

Remember, they WANT to sell it. Start from where you think you'd be getting
a bargain. Be prepared, grudgingly, to go up to somewhere below what you
think is the fair price. Don't pay any more.

I saw a 67 mercury pickup once I tried to persuade a guy to part with but he
wouldn't budge. (Lucky for me, I found a better one, but anyway) It had a
FACTORY bucket seat setup, in black vinyl with a bit of a center console.
It looked more like the style of a back seat out of a muscle car, with the
two seats bucketed and a small center raised section. This was the coolest
seat I've ever seen for a pickup. Guy swore it was as stock as the day it
was bought (and it looked it) so maybe someone with knowledge of what they
came with can tell me I'm either a "highboy" or it's true?

At 12:11 AM 1/25/98 EST, BADFORD4x4 wrote:
>the 30 splines are only in the dana 60-2. Its is a half ton axle housing.
>SEMI-FLOATING. Also in the mid 70's ford had a change in bearing for the 9
>inch.

I'm gonna have to check my references on this one. I know the 16-spline
are the oldest ones, and usually get their axle shafts replaced by the
serious 'wheelers. I think my '74 Dodge W-200 has the 30-spline unit (the
local Spicer depot called it a 'light duty' when I gave them the numbers
off the axle) and this thing is a 3/4 ton extended cab with an 8000 lb GVWR
so I seriously doubt it has semi-floating axles. All the 60F units are
35-spline AFAIK.

[for those of you who missed last week, I'm restoring a 67 mercury m100 body
and putting it on restored 71 f250 4x4 running gear powered by a built 410
mercury].

Neil, the bodyman, had to stay home so as to avoid a divorce. Wish I had
his problems sometimes, I must hang out in the wrong places, meeting the
wrong women, bla, bla, (ok ok sorry).

Anyway, most things went smoothly. The truck is even cleaner than I
thought. NO rust in the cab corners, original paint under the carpets not
cracked, even the wing nuts for the jack clips under the seat were as shiny
as the day they were installed.

I learned the hard way how many nuts hold on the dash pad (there's a lot of
them) but thankfully this dash was cracked already. I'll have to be more
careful with the parts truck. The harness is easy to remove, you start from
the headlight holes and work backwards to the firewall, disconnecting stuff.
You have to take out the battery tray to clear the headlight plug as you
pull it out. All the clips for the wires just pop out with a light tap
from under the inner fenders.

It helps to have a tool to take all the switches and stuff out, but it isn't
critical. A pair of needle-nosed pliers does the job.

I took the radio out. It appeared to be dealer-installed, as it was a
vacuum tube model with a cast metal front plate. It was a ford product,
made by Phillips I think. I may not re-install it. I think that my vacuum
and oil pressure gauges would look pretty darn good there. Anybody know if
Ford made some kind of cover plate for the radio hole?

I was surprised that the whole heater assembly is only held to the firewall
by 3 bolts, with tin nuts on the other end. I may decide to install this
more securely somehow, probably using solid nuts.

There were no tricks at all to stripping the cab. I'm trying to think of
anything complicated today, but really, it was just a lot of unscrewing
stuff and bagging/boxing it. The headliner rail is screwed and clipped in.
When you remove the chrome strip from the dash, the clips tend to slide out.

Randy did say one thing, that the rain gutter trim is very hard to remove
properly, and I shud leave that to him, as just prying on it will muck it
up. At least I THINK that's what he said....

Oh yeah, the hardest part of the day was removing the darn vent on the
drivers' side.

Next weekend is the final work: inner fenders, rad support, door glass and
latches. Then to the acid bath!

Today's highlight was that Dave, the owner of the 65 Mercury (!) Econoline
which is being restored by Neil, came in today to work on his rearend. He
had a story to tell about how he bought it.

The original van had a puny (170?) 6 cyl in it. The driveshaft looked as
thick as a vacuum cleaner pipe. The rearend was also tiny. But Dave bought
himself a 65 Ford "econoline heavy duty" parts van, which some guy started
to restore before he was forced (by you know who) to sell it. Turns out the
guy rebuilt the (240?, definitely not a 300 I think but bigger than Dave's)
six in that one, and the 9" rearend, and the whole front end. Re-arced
springs, rebuilt kingpins & steering box, the works. Guy had $4500 in
bills, Dave paid $900. Apparently the guy stood at the end of his driveway
when Dave towed it away and watched it all the way till it disappeared....

So we removed the rearend to install the new 9". Bit of wrestling with the
old one.

Dave also had his bumpers both rechromed and some name plates. An excellent
use of $200 in my opinion. Looked absolutely new! (Made me decide for sure
to rechrome the Mercury lettering from the hood of my truck, and the
"ranger" script from the box.) BTW the van is this amazing Champagne color,
not really gold but lighter. I think Stu Varner's pickup may be the same
color. If it is, Stu please post the name of the color. The van needs a
paint job. If somebody else knows which color, please also post.

Randy, the guy who looks like Ozzy Ozzbourne, was working on the 9" rearend
in his Bronco last weekend. Well, he's been working on it all week. He
started with nothing then rebuilt his entire rearend, brakes, sandblasted
and painted the springs (Eastwood cast-iron grey, apparently awesome paint),
and put it all together today. So I decided today he would do my transfer
case for sure! What a guy to have around!

I just wish I could take a couple of days off to get some serious work done!
This weekend warrior stuff is killing me with anticipation.

Has anybody ever heard of Standox paints? Apparently they're the same paints
used by Porsche and Mercedes. They're not a base/clear system, but a
one-coat system. This, I'm told by my bodyman, is more durable in the long
run for me. It is cheaper for sure.

I'd be interested to hear any advice about type of paint to use. I'm going
Wimbledon White.

>
> I'm gonna have to check my references on this one. I know the 16-spline
> are the oldest ones, and usually get their axle shafts replaced by the
> serious 'wheelers. I think my '74 Dodge W-200 has the 30-spline unit (the
> local Spicer depot called it a 'light duty' when I gave them the numbers
> off the axle) and this thing is a 3/4 ton extended cab with an 8000 lb GVWR
> so I seriously doubt it has semi-floating axles. All the 60F units are
> 35-spline AFAIK.
>

A year ago I had my rear end rebuilt at that time I needed the carrier, gears,
side gears etc. That's when I found out that 16 spline side gears were in short
supply and no one could tell me what year Ford trucks had the same length 30 or
35 spline axles. I did find out that in 73 or 74 Ford switched to the 30
something splines but they are a few inches wider. I finally found new gears,
carrier, side gears etc. to rebuild it stock. ( That ruled out the limited slip
rear though!!! :-( )
My Dana 60 is "Full Floating" and has a 5200 lb capacity ( GVW = 7500 lbs )

I went to the shop at 10:00 am the jerk ( oh I mean manager ) informed me that
there were 6 cars in front of mine and they would only be getting to it at about
2:00 pm. Great that gives me NO time to get the "right" parts in the event the
hub was the incorrect one. so in the mean time I went to Ford dealer #1 "no way
can you get that hub new" and he couldn't even give me any info on hub options!

On to Ford dealer #2 ( Ford Of Orange ) They never laugh at me when I go in and
ask about 1970 parts. Well as it turns out there are 5 available in the US (
they have been discontinued but there may be more available from Dana ) $ 215.00
or so. I think I will stick with a used one!!! At the Ford dealer I did learn
that there is only one hub specified for the mid 69 to 72, all use the same
bearings, seals etc. Also the HD brakes and standard brakes use the same hub
etc.

I went to a parts store and sure enough they confirmed that the bearings are the
same for 69 to mid/late 70 ish.

So how could the hub I brought to the brake shop be the wrong one???

I went back to the shop at 2:00 as told after sitting there for 2.5 hours the
idiot told me to go out and pick up the other hub with the small bearings. This
is where I go ballistic!!!!

Before the idiot checks anything out he tells me to spend non refundable money
on a part that I know I am not going to need. After I explain the situation to
him again, he goes in the back and brings out the bearings that they were trying
to use, I go and get the hub and bearings that I bought and he grinning and with
some cocky remark drops the race into the hub and sure enough it falls right
through!!! I pick up the race and with the same cocky look I set the race in the
bearing and as if by magic it was too small for the bearing. Gee I think I had
suggested that's what may have happened last Tuesday!!!:-) ( D #n, I love it
when I am right ) All of a sudden the idiot changed his tune a little. He still
wanted to see if the replacement hub was the same but his techs were busy so I
instructed him on how to remove the axle, hub etc.( half way through he
disappeared for 15 minutes to talk on the phone, so I finished the removal
process. It turns out they don't even have the correct "2 and whatever" inch
socket that is needed to remove the axle nuts, so I had to use a chisel!
GREAT!!! Off the hub came and as if by magic they even had the same casting
numbers inside. He was about to remove the inner seal when I stopped him to
point out that if he didn't have the correct parts in his shop he wouldn't be
able to get me back on the road today ( 4:45pm at this point ) I finally
convinced him that the hubs were the same but it look another 20 minutes to
convince him that they made a mistake.

The last thing I want is for these bozos to do any more harm, I mean work, on my
truck so I made him an offer.
Credit me the new studs, the seals, the bearings that were never installed, the
$30.00 that they charged ( was supposed to be $50.00 but the wrote the original
quote wrong ) just to remove the hubs in the first place, the labor to do the
bearing / seal stuff and 20% off the bill for my "Hassle Factor" and I would go
away!

WELL you would think I was asking for his right arm. I ended up with a $134.00
credit out of a $384.00 job ( no 20% )and now I have to redo most of what they
did in the first place. ( I do have a warrantee though :-) )

Guess what I am doing next weekend?

I already have the Bureau of Automotive Repair's number (( 800 ) 952-5210 in
California )and the Corporate HQ of Winston Tire ( oops I didn't mean to type
that ) Monday should be interesting!!!!!

I do have Lifetime balance on all four tires there, I wonder how many times a
week I could get my tires balanced for free????? ;-)

Part 4 coming soon!!!!

Dana

If I might plagiarize: ------NUKE Winston Tire-------( oops I didn't mean to
type that )

But, but, but Sam loves us! He only cares that we're safe! He puts a baby in
a tire for Christ sakes!!! :)

Way to go Dana! You got charges taken off the bill? You most be one of
those angry Boy Scout types! :)Those of us in So. Cal. Thank you for showing
us where not to take our trucks for brakes. It's bad enough what they did to
you, thanks to you they won't get any more of us!!!
What kind of tires do you have? I need to get wheels and tires for my
'76 F350 in the next couple of weeks and I'm looking for suggestions.

BTW, What was that factor you were talking about at first? I need to stay
away from it in the future also! :)

Ack, ack ack, ACK ACK ACK, ack ack! Sorry it's a line from Mars attack. We
come in peace. Do not run. We are your friends! :)
Later!

Deacon Blues deconblu....

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