5k times going in the wrong direction

I need some advice, getting frustrated with my 5k times. In May, I ran a rather hilly 5k just under 26 minutes. Today, I had to really work to get just under 27 minutes on a rolling but easier course.

I run 3 or 4 times per week, was averaging 25 miles a weeks from July-October prior to a half marathon. I was not doing any specific speedwork, would through some sprints on the end of some runs, do some fartlek runs, etc.

Last year, most of my 5ks were in the high 25 to mid 26 range. Same local area. Aside from the race in May, my 5k times have been slower than last year.

I know when I use the McMillan calculator, my 10k and half times are slower (or significantly slower) than the predictions. Does this mean I lack endurance?

On the positive side, I did improve my 10k time from 56:1X in April to 55:0X in September. And today's 5k, while disappointing, I had as close to even mile splits as I ever have (between 8:46 and 8:53 for each mile and 6:32 for the last .1) By comparison, the 5k in May had splits of 7:55, 8:56, 8:46 and last .1 at 7:53.

I know more miles. But what about quality runs?

My immediate goal is to run a 5k under 25 minutes. I thought I would have done it by now.

What do your 3-4 runs per week look like - are they always the same distance and pace? It sounds to me like you may have hit a plateau, and the best way to get beyond that would be to shake up your training by doing a bunch of different types of running.

And would say that yes, if your 10k and half times drop off a lot on the McMillan calculator, then you lack endurance,. How long are your long runs?

During the work week 4 to 5.5 miles. Was doing a long run of about 10 miles and longer run of about 7 during the half training. In the spring, I I was doing 1/4 mile repeats as part of the 10k training plan I sort of followed. By sort of, I added in a 2nd longer run (I think for that I was doing a 6 or 7 miler and a 8-9 miler)

Looking at my old calendars, looks like last year I was doing some type of interval workout weekly in the fall; either 2 minutes hard/2 minutes easy (worked out to about 1/4 miles) or 5 minutes hard/3 minutes easy (was usually a few 100ths short of 1k).

Since you do most of your training on Hilly courses... have you gone anywhere where the terrain is basically totally flat ? Just to see what your times would be? Because I think I would agree with Cecil58 your body has hit a sort of a Plateau on those Hilly courses? It sound like you have been doing a lot of different types of workouts to speed up... Hum? maybe going out and just running for relaxation... don't worry so much about checking your time or seeing how fast you can run, so go for some runs with out the use of the gadgits the watch, the GPS / and whatever you use? Sometimes it's all "Mental" the more we mentally push our selves to keep getting to that magic # in our racing times... Our bodies do tend to fall back on our expectations. Take a few days rest do no running...then do a run and see how it go's... ?

Why are you running only 3-4 times per week? I'd bring that up to at least 5 days/wk, better yet 6.

You have been running long enough that a 3-5 mile easy run put between harder days of 8-10 milers will feel almost like a rest day. Additional 30-45 minute run(s) don't sound like much, but adding just one would increase your overall mileage by 10-20%.

People tend to forget that run frequency, along with duration and intensity, is one of the 3 types of stress that cause the body to adapt, and become more conditioned. Those short, easy and recovery runs make the harder workouts and longer runs easier to handle, and train your body to recover faster.

In some cases, I was following a fast running, good looking, seductively clad woman. In others, I was making a half-hearted attempt to do speed work, despite my absolute hatred of it. In any case, the following results are intended for entertainment purposes only, not because I'm trying to be the next Speed Racer of running.

In the beginning you see a lot of improvement from just running more and running consistently. And it's easy to kind of get into a routine with running and get used to sort of coasting along at an easy pace. But if you want to run faster, you need to add some faster running to your training aka speedwork.

Why are you running only 3-4 times per week? I'd bring that up to at least 5 days/wk, better yet 6.

You have been running long enough that a 3-5 mile easy run put between harder days of 8-10 milers will feel almost like a rest day. Additional 30-45 minute run(s) don't sound like much, but adding just one would increase your overall mileage by 10-20%.

People tend to forget that run frequency, along with duration and intensity, is one of the 3 types of stress that cause the body to adapt, and become more conditioned. Those short, easy and recovery runs make the harder workouts and longer runs easier to handle, and train your body to recover faster.

I do strength training 2 or 3 days per week. I have had some hip & back issues that nag me less when I strength train.

People tend to forget that run frequency, along with duration and intensity, is one of the 3 types of stress that cause the body to adapt, and become more conditioned. Those short, easy and recovery runs make the harder workouts and longer runs easier to handle, and train your body to recover faster.

I tend to go on the side of caution with this ^above. You have to remember that not everyone can run more than 3 or 4 times a week at the most, due to family, job's or their physical abilities. Not everyones body will adapt to running 5 or 6 x week? ( I know I can't)

Half-Crazy0920 I think that is great that you take time during your week to strength train... Keep it up, if your having back or hip issues you need to work on strengthening those muscles in those areas. if doing those keeps your running pain free, keep doing them. I would not add anymore days to your week until you feel confident that your weekly running /strength training is helping you and you feel confident to add another day? and to do so with out pain issues in your hips and back.

I know, I"m going through similar issues right now, I actually had to stop running altogether in order to just stength train and work on strengthening some weaker muscular areas for me it's every where between my lower back into my piriformus,muscldes in the gluts and sacrum area, hips, hams and quads, my left knee. So I know the last thing I need is to add more days to my running. I'm doing Body Pump and a combo of Physical Therapy (the therapist said I can continue to do Body pump, they were more conserned that if I was still running that I would need to stop? But I told them I'm not doing any running now but will start back up in January.

I can tell you what worked for me when I wanted to run sub 20 minute 5 Ks. Focus on running a mile for time once a week. I mean-- give it 95%. Once you get the mile down to your satisfaction try and run 2 within the same workout. If your goal is a 5k, run more short and fast workouts. You'll need to run more consistent mile to get down near 20 minutes, probably more than you are running now.

If you've got weight to lose, then lose it. Weight loss is the best way to get faster.

Flat courses are few and far between, unless I want to deal with the downtown/close to water areas of downtown Baltimore. I tend to avoid those races due to a lack of parking or crazy high parking prices in the downtown area. I did 2 5ks in May that were mostly flat. One was at a horse track, so I wouldn't really count that cause running through wet sand is just painful. I spent the better part of that one wondering why people pay way more money to do mud runs, cause that was not fun. The other was a crash and burn, I started too fast trying to weave through too many people who lined up wrong (really, when running with a 3 or 4 year old, starting in the front is just wrong). My PR 5k is sort of on the course I ran today, this course was changed from past years. I personally preferred the new course.

I didn't mention it in the earlier post, but some of the strength training is for shoulder issues. If I slack on it, my shoulder gets tweaked from running. I have lots of DVDs, from what I have read, I think some are a similar format to Body Pump.

I try to do 3 as a bare minimum, most weeks I can do 4. There are some weeks that life just gets in the way. Right now, I am trying to get used to running in the dark. I have never done that. I think during the week, anything fast is out, cause the sidewalks I am running on are anything but even.

I disagree with those that simply say add mileage. You need quality mileage. Try running fartleks at least once a week. I incorporate them during each mile. You will find your base pace will quicken as a result. I even fartlek during races…I just blame it on someone else.

I am debating heading over to the high school track during the week. I think the one school would be reasonably safe since it is along the road. Too many tracks near me are isolated. As a female, not somewhere I want to be in the dark

Flat courses are few and far between, unless I want to deal with the downtown/close to water areas of downtown Baltimore. I tend to avoid those races due to a lack of parking or crazy high parking prices in the downtown area. I did 2 5ks in May that were mostly flat. One was at a horse track, so I wouldn't really count that cause running through wet sand is just painful. I spent the better part of that one wondering why people pay way more money to do mud runs, cause that was not fun. The other was a crash and burn, I started too fast trying to weave through too many people who lined up wrong (really, when running with a 3 or 4 year old, starting in the front is just wrong). My PR 5k is sort of on the course I ran today, this course was changed from past years. I personally preferred the new course.

I didn't mention it in the earlier post, but some of the strength training is for shoulder issues. If I slack on it, my shoulder gets tweaked from running. I have lots of DVDs, from what I have read, I think some are a similar format to Body Pump.

I try to do 3 as a bare minimum, most weeks I can do 4. There are some weeks that life just gets in the way. Right now, I am trying to get used to running in the dark. I have never done that. I think during the week, anything fast is out, cause the sidewalks I am running on are anything but even.

I just got a headlamp. Total geek city but it allowed me to run in the dark at the same pace I would run in the light. I got a Rayovak headlamp at Home Depot and it has exceptional illumination. Doesn't feel great on my head but I just have to play with the strap a bit. Now I can incorporate some speedwork into my runs rather than take a special day for just that. Running hills also made me faster. My home is situated in area where hills come at the beginning and the end of my run.

I am debating heading over to the high school track during the week. I think the one school would be reasonably safe since it is along the road. Too many tracks near me are isolated. As a female, not somewhere I want to be in the dark

If not, I'll do speed over the weekend.

I totally understand where you coming from in running alone especially at night. There is nothing wrong with running 3 x week... just make one day a easy day, one a speed or faster paced day and one your long slow run day. That's what I usually do (mostly based on Jeff Galloway's recomendations for my running)

Is there any running Clubs in Baltimore area? Check them out and see if you can find some Group runs? www.rrca.org I checked there are at least 4 in your town. If you can find some Groups of runners that run in safe areas that would be a good way to go, even if if you have to drive/ or public transit across town to meet up some groups... if not, just be safe, wear reflective gear, lights, pepper spray or mace, and your Cell phone, Try not to use your IPod or other music devices, sometimes that can attrack someone to bother/follow in the dark, because they might think your not aware of your suroundings.

Best work out for 5K training, well for me....hill sprints. Find a good hill, 1.5 mile warm up run, then; depending on the hill, .5 to 1 mile of intervals sprints up, rest on the way down, then 1.5 mile cool down. You can substitute this for your track or speed workout.

@Pegruns/walks2 I have on reflective strips, bright tops and knuckelights. There are some group runs, but they aren't convenient for my schedule. I get home around 4:30, often the group runs start at 6:30. By 6:30, I'm cooking dinner. Plus, I am an anti-social runner. I am sticking with the sub division by me, it is almost entirely closely spaced single family homes. I saw a number of people out walking dogs or just getting home, so felt fairly safe. I have never used music, so not an issue. I carry my cell phone, but keep it in a spi belt under my shirt.

@Aluneau I think that is the route I am going to take and see what happens. The route I did today was about 4.75 miles with 430 feet of elevation gain. So I have lots of hills I can use, and they are all in the areas I feel safe in. I had measured out a one mile loop that has about a half mile hill, so I can do a few laps and be done.

I have to keep telling myself this is short term. After Thanksgiving, the neighborhoods should be brighter cause there are lots of people around here who turn their yards into a landing strip for Christmas. After December 21, the days start getting longer again.