I think I misunderstood your question until I read GardenArtists reply. She is absolutely correct in saying POA and dealing with a trust are two separate issues. Only a named Trustee can deal with a trust - a seperate POA has no authority there. Grandpa may or may not be the trustee - I am trustee for my sons trust. If grandpa is the trustee your POA for grandpa still does not matter. If grandpa is unable or unwilling to deal with his trust - if he is indeed the trustee - you will need to see a lawyer to have a different trustee named.

You ask " there is no form to change the original decree?" A decree is a court finding and decision. Was the court involved in setting things up the way they are? If so, the only way to change anything would be to obtain another court order. You will need an elder law attorney for that and you need to consult withone anyway because of the changes you are talking about. If that attorney determines that grandpa lacks capacity to underatand the proposed changes then the way things are setup now will stand.

..person to sign away their home in order to stay at rehab (watched the process of the rehab staff trying to force disoriented drugged patients to sign a bunch of papers in order to create a liability. I get it, they want to be paid, but still... . As stated above -- get legal advice, preferably with grandfather present. Good lawyers are much happier seeing the family dynamics. A really good lawyer may also talk to you each alone at the same visit.

Since it sounds like everything is coopertive, maybe some assets (ie house, major bank account) could be accessible only with your counter-signature. I dont' know how to deal with the scenario where a nursing home tries to force the elderly per

As POA you are usually able to make decisions for your Grandfather on his behalf . On some occasions (depending on the document) a bank will want to see papers declaring the person incompetent. Don't panic. That is not always the case. Take grandpa to the bank so that they clearly understand his wishes and let the POA stand. I would strongly advise not selling or renting property without your grandfathers knowledge or participation if he is competent. There are laws that state that a persons property, etc. needs to be in someone elses name for XX number of years so it is no longer considered an asset should he need to be placed in a nursing home. Each state may have how long prior that is but a tleast 3 years for it to no longer be considered his asset. He needs to take care of the trust is he is still capable. A trust attorney would advise you best. It is an expense that will save you a lot of headache and cash in the end. Be above board. There is nothing wrong with him putting you on the deed to the house now. It is done all the time to lower assets. Get legal advice.

Sheryl, some things you wrote don't make sense in the manner in which these authorities are typically created.

A Living Trust identifies a Trustee who handles financial, legal and other matters after the maker of the trust dies. Typically the maker is the Trustee, and Successor Trustee(s) are named to act after his death.

A Durable Power of Attorney is a separate document, identifying individual(s) who can act either with a declaration of mental inability of the maker, or can act absent such a declaration. The appointed individuals act while the maker is still alive.

I've never heard of bridging the authority by creating a power of attorney in a trust, especially since the trust has its own creation mechanisms.

What troubles me though is your statement that

"also, we need to actually turn over control of the trust so it appears he has no access to the assets. not going to say why."

You're walking on thin ice here. If your father created the trust, he's the settlor and has control over it, as well as any changes or disposition of any assets.

You have no control over the Trust.

If you feel he's not being prudent in managing his financial assets, then you act under the DPOA, NOT the Living Trust. Even if you are named as Successor Trustee to act on his death, you can't act under the Trust while he's living.

Yes, you can just do it - seems weird at first. I don't think this changes from state to state but at least in Oregon there is no form to activate things.I don't know anything on how to handle the trust - there are so mNy different types of trusts and I suspose trustees would be involved. I would caution you on trying to make things "appear" different then they really are for any reason. Things like that always have a way of coming out - and especially if you are dealing with the hovetnment - they know every trick in the book and they will find out - not only could you lose your POA standing you could wind up facing charges.

we intend to either rent out his house or sell it can I just "do" that? seems it would need written permission from him to act in those capacities. also, we need to actually turn over control of the trust so it appears he has no access to the assets. not going to say why.

thanks you. so there is no form to change the original decree? I am already a signature on his checking account. will get name on checks. always intend to honor his wishes, even when he cant tell me anymore :D

You just do it. If it's a matter of opening accounts with yours and grandpas name - take the POA papers and preferably grandpa into the bank. It makes check writing easier with both names on the checks with "POA" printed next to yours. I just started in - doing things but I always had a copy of the POA on me. If grandpa is still competent he needs to be in agreement with everything you do on his behalf - if you take action on something and he challenges it you could find yourself in trouble legally.

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