WWI Digest 1185
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Spad thingies
by Bill Bacon
2) "Kills"
by Bill Bacon
3) Turk Nieuport 17
by Martin Ryan
4) Re: FMP books (was Re: Spad thingies)
by Bob Pearson
5) Which datafile to buy?
by "D. Anderson" <2814823733@home.com>
6) Re: Which datafile to buy?
by Bob Pearson
7) von Kissenberth's Camel
by REwing@aol.com
8) Re: von Kissenberth's Camel
by Bob Pearson
9) Re: von Kissenberth's Camel
by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
10) Re: Which datafile to buy?
by Mike Dicianna
11) Re: Which datafile to buy?
by "Sandy Adam"
12) Roll Models (was Which datafile to buy?)
by TPTPUMPER@aol.com
13) Re: Hello and looking for 1/72nd kits
by mgoodwin@ricochet.net
14) Re: Roll Models (was Which datafile to buy?)
by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D."
15) Hey Sandy...!
by "D. Anderson" <2814823733@home.com>
16) Re: Which datafile to buy?
by mgoodwin@ricochet.net
17) Re: Spad thingies
by KarrArt@aol.com
18) Sandy's Pup
by "Steven M. Perry"
19) Re: Pensacola MOH (was Spad thingies)
by "Bill Ciciora"
20) RE: Sandy's Pup
by "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador"
21) Wanted: One Ballon Killer
by Bob Pearson
22) Austin Show
by "Richard Eaton"
23) Re: Hey Sandy...!
by mbittner@juno.com
24) I'm back
by Pedro e Francisca Soares
25) Re: Pensacola MOH (was Spad thingies)
by Bill Bacon
26) Re: Wanted: One Ballon Killer
by Bill Bacon
27) Sandy's Pup
by Pedro e Francisca Soares
28) Re: Sandy's Pup
by Alberto Rada
29) New Trivia and Guillows kits wanted.
by "Leonard Endy"
30) Sandy's Pup
by Bill Bacon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:17:39 -0500
From: Bill Bacon
To: wwi
Subject: Spad thingies
Message-ID: <35E8A833.338C@netjava.net>
Luke's unmarked Spad was S7984, an Adolphe Bernard built machine. "26"
was a Bleriot built machine S/N S15203.
Cheers,
Bill B.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:45:48 -0500
From: Bill Bacon
To: wwi
Subject: "Kills"
Message-ID: <35E8AECC.6EC6@netjava.net>
Have I missed something? It is my impression that we are comparing
apples and oranges when discussing "kills". Were not the "scores"
termed Aerial Victories? Citations refer to A/C shot down and not
"kills". An Aerial Victory is not of necessity a kill. The logic is
similar to "If 10% of the women in the world are pregnant the all women
are 10% pregnant". Granted there were excess claims on both sides but
if "scores" were limited to "kills" all "scores" would be diminished by
considerable.
My 2 cents worth,
Cheers,
Bill B,
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:11:18 -0700
From: Martin Ryan
To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu"
Subject: Turk Nieuport 17
Message-ID: <35E8B4C6.2D515BA8@ix.netcom.com>
Greetings,
Being a new member of the list and primarily a "treadhead", I won't know
if this has ever been answered:
Saw the color profile of a Turk Nieuport 17 in No.76 AIREnthusiast and
was wondering if the aircraft would have retained it's original machine
guns or would they be replaced? Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:23:19 -0700
From: Bob Pearson
To: WW1 Mailing list
Subject: Re: FMP books (was Re: Spad thingies)
Message-ID: <03231971709286@KAIEN.COM>
David,
According to the FMP the Pfalz volume
should be out around Christmas (I know what you want ! ! ! )
regards,
Bob Pearson
----------
> From: DavidL1217@aol.com
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Re: FMP books (was Re: Spad thingies)
> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:43:45 -0400
>
> What is the anticipated release date.
>
> I am relieved that the profile issues have been resolved!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:51:39 -0600
From: "D. Anderson" <2814823733@home.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Which datafile to buy?
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980829215139.007224a4@mail>
Dear List:
I've just been to the Roll Models site (finally updated!) and have been
looking over the datafiles. I notice the reprinted SE5a is available, but
there is also a special available, which is about twice the price of the
others. So, what is in the special that warrants the price? Is an adequate
amount of information contained in the regular datafile, say if one just
wants some info. to build a model?
DA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:12:52 -0700
From: Bob Pearson
To: WW1 Mailing list
Subject: Re: Which datafile to buy?
Message-ID: <04125242209332@KAIEN.COM>
Dane,
The original DF has 28 pages (32 if you count covers) and 3 profiles. the
special has 44 (48) pages with 12 profiles and colour photos of the RAF
Museums F938. Both are excellent value and I have made extensive use of
them. One other SE5/5a book I recommend is the SE5a File by Air-Britain.
regards,
Bob Pearson
----------
> From: "D. Anderson" <2814823733@home.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Which datafile to buy?
> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:59:26 -0400
>
> Dear List:
>
> I've just been to the Roll Models site (finally updated!) and have been
> looking over the datafiles. I notice the reprinted SE5a is available, but
> there is also a special available, which is about twice the price of the
> others. So, what is in the special that warrants the price? Is an adequate
> amount of information contained in the regular datafile, say if one just
> wants some info. to build a model?
>
> DA
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:59:16 EDT
From: REwing@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: von Kissenberth's Camel
Message-ID: <8735439.35e8dc24@aol.com>>
Hello Everyone!!
I've heard about this Camel that von Kissenberth flew, but have never
seen any pictures. Is there any books or drawings out there that illustrates
this machine? It would be a very unique example to do. TIA,
-Rick-
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:21:14 -0700
From: Bob Pearson
To: WW1 Mailing list
Subject: Re: von Kissenberth's Camel
Message-ID: <05211409009414@KAIEN.COM>
Rick,
There is a profile of it in Windosck 7/6, and a photo in Camel: King of
Combat. It was an ex 3(N) RNAS machine and as such has their markings of a
blue nose and the RNAS Eagle on the fuselage side. The tail was done in the
Js23B markings of black/white. I can send you a copy of my old profile of it
- I have to update it sometime to the new computer ones.
Research by Andy Kemp and myself has failed to resolve just what Camel this
was - it definately is not B7230 as stated in many source (including an
earlier posting by me)
Regards,
Bob
----------
> From: REwing@aol.com
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: von Kissenberth's Camel
> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 01:02:23 -0400
>
>
> Hello Everyone!!
>
> I've heard about this Camel that von Kissenberth flew, but have never
> seen any pictures. Is there any books or drawings out there that
illustrates
> this machine? It would be a very unique example to do. TIA,
>
> -Rick-
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:19:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: von Kissenberth's Camel
Message-ID: <199808300519.WAA18930@ednet1.orednet.org>
Rick writes:
>Hello Everyone!!
>
> I've heard about this Camel that von Kissenberth flew, but have never
>seen any pictures. Is there any books or drawings out there that illustrates
>this machine? It would be a very unique example to do. TIA,
There is no "von" in Otto's name.
I've seen a couple of photos of this Camel - none of which, alas, are
shot from an angle which allows one to ascertain any of the markings
or details.
Cheers and all,
--
Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org
"Look, strange women lying on their backs in ponds handing out swords - that's
no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a
mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:36:33 +0000
From: Mike Dicianna
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Which datafile to buy?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980829233633.00677754@proaxis.com>
At 11:59 PM 8/29/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear List:
>
>I've just been to the Roll Models site (finally updated!) and have been
>looking over the datafiles. I notice the reprinted SE5a is available, but
>there is also a special available, which is about twice the price of the
>others. So, what is in the special that warrants the price? Is an adequate
>amount of information contained in the regular datafile, say if one just
>wants some info. to build a model?
>
>DA
>
>Maybe others have not had a problem with Roll Models, but the two times I have
attempted to order from them it took MANY weeks. I finally received a Eduard
Sopwith Triplane after waiting six weeks. And just recently, after waiting for
the Windsock MvR Flying Circus Special for 5 full weeks for them to send me
a letter cancelling the order due to them not being able to "FILL" my order.
I hope I will have better luck with Sopwith Hobbies. They have a great catalog,
well worth sending away for.
My two cents worth....other results may vary...
md
>
Mikedc
"Der Rote Modellflugzeugbauer"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:44:41 -0700
From: "Sandy Adam"
To:
Subject: Re: Which datafile to buy?
Message-ID: <199808300946.KAA10609@beryl.sol.co.uk>
As Bob says, consider the Air-Britain SE5 File, as well as - or instead of
the Datafile/Special. It costs little more than the special but contains
many, many more pages of colour profiles, plans and zillions of pictures.
As well as a potted history of every plane built, where possible.
See the Air-Britain web page for details - haven't got the URL but Yahoo
should find it for you.
Sandy
----------
> From: D. Anderson <2814823733@home.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Which datafile to buy?
> Date: 29 August 1998 20:59
>
> Dear List:
>
> I've just been to the Roll Models site (finally updated!) and have been
> looking over the datafiles. I notice the reprinted SE5a is available, but
> there is also a special available, which is about twice the price of the
> others. So, what is in the special that warrants the price? Is an
adequate
> amount of information contained in the regular datafile, say if one just
> wants some info. to build a model?
>
> DA
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:29:08 EDT
From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Roll Models (was Which datafile to buy?)
Message-ID: >
Hi Mike!
I also had a "slow order experience" ordering Datafiles from Roll, a year
ago. I hope they have ironed out their problems. I have heard a lot of good
about Sopwith, but I haven't ordered from them myself. But let's not forget
about our own Barry and his Rosemont Hobbies. He doesn't carry Datafiles (or
does he?), but his service is excellent, period. There are cheaper mail
order places, but none better in service than Rosemont. FWIW, I am just a
happy customer, and not affiliated with Rosemont. (But Barry, make out the
check to . . . ;^) )
Have Fun!!
IRA
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:20:10 -0700
From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Hello and looking for 1/72nd kits
Message-ID: <35E97BBA.422D@ricochet.net>
Patrick Wilson wrote:
> Any information regarding WWI kits (manufacturers, price, where
> available, etc.)
> would be very much appreciated.
Patrick, I just stumbled upon part of an estate sale snapped up by a
local shop owner. He has a number of kits, Including Revell Nie. 17,
28, SE5a, Fokker D.VII and Dr.I (Triplane) Albatros D.III, and Camels.
There're a few Airfix kits as well, including the Roland C.II and
Fokker Dr.I. His name, address & phone # are:
Charles (or Robert) Allen
3703 Portola Drive
Santa Cruz, CA
(831) 475-7755
AFAIK, He's open 10am-5pm PST. I'm letting you have a chance at these
before the rest of the list; please let me know after you've gotten in
touch with Mr. Allen or if you're not interested, so I can let the list
know about the remaining kits.
Welcome to the list,
Riordan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:51:01 -0700
From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D."
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Roll Models (was Which datafile to buy?)
Message-ID:
At 12:34 PM 8/30/98 -0400, Ira wrote:
>
> I also had a "slow order experience" ordering Datafiles from Roll, a year
>ago. I hope they have ironed out their problems.
>
I put in an e-mail order to Roll Models for Datafiles and a package of
"Strutz" on 10 August 98 which was confirmed the following day via e-mail.
The package arrived on 27 August minus the "Strutz" but with a note saying
that the item was "not in stock".
Fernando Lamas
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:00:45 -0600
From: "D. Anderson" <2814823733@home.com>
To: wwi
Subject: Hey Sandy...!
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980830110045.006a72f8@mail>
Hey Sandy!
Just had look at your Pup at the WW I page. Very nice!
Dane
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:05:28 -0700
From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Which datafile to buy?
Message-ID: <35E98658.2D0A@ricochet.net>
D. Anderson wrote:
>
> Dear List:
>
> I've just been to the Roll Models site (finally updated!) and have been
> looking over the datafiles. I notice the reprinted SE5a is available, but
> there is also a special available, which is about twice the price of the
> others. So, what is in the special that warrants the price? Is an adequate
> amount of information contained in the regular datafile, say if one just
> wants some info. to build a model?
IMHO, if you just want to build a model (and not necessarily learn
minutae like the service history and fate of every SE5 that ever flew)
you can get by with just the datafile reprint.
If you're interested, I have some info on squadron markings, which are
not extensively covered in the datafile.
FWIW,
Riordan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:18:51 EDT
From: KarrArt@aol.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Spad thingies
Message-ID: <49003ab7.35e9978b@aol.com>>
In a message dated 98-08-29 21:20:20 EDT, you write:
<< Luke's unmarked Spad was S7984, an Adolphe Bernard built machine. "26"
was a Bleriot built machine S/N S15203.>>
When I built the big Revell, I used 15155- I got this number from a C&C US
edition that had a large listing of known Spads, and who flew them. Reading
accounts of Luke, one gets the idea that he ran through alot of airplanes.
Robert K.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:23:16 -0400
From: "Steven M. Perry"
To: wwi
Subject: Sandy's Pup
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980830142316.0071f980@pop.mindspring.com>
Sandy:
Beautiful Pup. Sure is a well executed color scheme. Nobody is going to
accuse you of looking at the world through PC-10 colored glasses. :)
Thanks for sharing it,
sp
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:37:28 -0500
From: "Bill Ciciora"
To:
Subject: Re: Pensacola MOH (was Spad thingies)
Message-ID:
Bill Bacon writes:
>> The two additions were Navy: One in Italy and one at Pensacola, FL and
both to enlisted men (Other ranks to some others). Hope it has piqued the
interest of many list members. <<
The Pensacola MOH has certainly piqued my interest. How did such enlisted
man display " ... conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity or risk of life,
above and beyond the call of duty, in action involving actual conflict with
an opposing armed force" ? I didn't think the Germans had submarines off
the Florida coast in WWI.
Bill Ciciora
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:49:42 -0500
From: "Dr. Phillip Anz-Meador"
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'"
Subject: RE: Sandy's Pup
Message-ID: <01BDD41D.0B14E220.panz-meador@vsti.com>
at last sandy has done something in lozenge (to apply the original heraldic meaning...)!
phillip
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven M. Perry [SMTP:smperry@mindspring.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 1:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Sandy's Pup
Sandy:
Beautiful Pup. Sure is a well executed color scheme. Nobody is going to
accuse you of looking at the world through PC-10 colored glasses. :)
Thanks for sharing it,
sp
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:08:45 -0700
From: Bob Pearson
To: WW1 Mailing list
Subject: Wanted: One Ballon Killer
Message-ID: <19084523410069@KAIEN.COM>
Greetings all,
Have you heard about the 50 story Canadian weather balloon that got away and
refuses to be shot down? It is presently somewhere over the Atlantic after
drifting from the Praires, and then to Iceland. The CAF tried to shot it
down, but it didn't help. Where are the Zep-strafers when you need them?
Regards,
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:09:48 -0500
From: "Richard Eaton"
To: wwi
Subject: Austin Show
Message-ID: <35E9A37C.AAD4E555@dsccc.com>
Just a brief note on the IPMS show in Austin this weekend. Started
out slow but had quite a few entries come in just prior to
judging. Of WWI note:
1/48 4 entires (Nice MS L)
1/72 3 entries
1/32 (I think) Scratch Albatros D Va that was very nice.
All other categories had entries in the tens and more.
I could not stay till the announcements. John? Did You?
The usual large croud of venders with very little wwi kits.
I managed to pick up an airfix HP 400 for next to nothing because
of the tired box. The plastic is good though!
All in all a good show. Nice way to get out of the 102 temps.
Regards,
Richard
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:38:42 -0500
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Hey Sandy...!
Message-ID: <19980830.143957.-253991.1.mbittner@juno.com>
On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:09:06 -0400 "D. Anderson" <2814823733@home.com>
writes:
>Just had look at your Pup at the WW I page. Very nice!
I agree. Excellent job!
Matt Bittner
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:35:25 +0200
From: Pedro e Francisca Soares
To: "WW1 Modeling List (E-mail)"
Subject: I'm back
Message-ID: <01BDD458.7EAFC160@fei1-p15.telepac.pt>
Hi gang,
Back from sunny Barcelona and the South of Spain. Nothing aeronautical =
to report except a book that might interest some of you (Scott, Alberto, =
Matt) called Cronica de la Aviacion Espanola, with some pictures of =
farmans, nieuports, brisfits but nothing really exceptional.=20
So, Hi again, glad to be back with you all.
Um abraco
Pedro
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:18:29 -0500
From: Bill Bacon
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Pensacola MOH (was Spad thingies)
Message-ID: <35E9B395.1686@netjava.net>
Bill Ciciora wrote:
>
> Bill Bacon writes:
>
> >> The two additions were Navy: One in Italy and one at Pensacola, FL and
> both to enlisted men (Other ranks to some others). Hope it has piqued the
> interest of many list members. <<
>
> The Pensacola MOH has certainly piqued my interest. How did such enlisted
> man display " ... conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity or risk of life,
> above and beyond the call of duty, in action involving actual conflict with
> an opposing armed force" ? I didn't think the Germans had submarines off
> the Florida coast in WWI.
>
> Bill Ciciora
A fact that many don't know is that the Navy provided for the Meadal Of
Honor for peace time or actions not involving the enemy. In fact there
were two Navy MoH. A gold plated silver cross patee for actions
involving the enemy and the bronze five pointed star for actionsnot
involving the enemy. All changed in 1939 and the five pointed star and
acition involving the enemy became thr requirement. The Pensicola MoH
was awarde for rescue in an A/C crash at sea. Details in the FMP book.
Cheers
Bill B.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:21:54 -0500
From: Bill Bacon
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Wanted: One Ballon Killer
Message-ID: <35E9B462.5325@netjava.net>
Bob Pearson wrote:
>
> Greetings all,
>
> Have you heard about the 50 story Canadian weather balloon that got away and
> refuses to be shot down? It is presently somewhere over the Atlantic after
> drifting from the Praires, and then to Iceland. The CAF tried to shot it
> down, but it didn't help. Where are the Zep-strafers when you need them?
>
> Regards,
> Bob
One of the disadvantages of using Helium. It doesn't burn and to
deflate it would take a bloody big hole. A contact fuzed missile might
do it but gunfire won't
Cheers,
Bill B.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:02:17 +0200
From: Pedro e Francisca Soares
To: "WW1 Modeling List (E-mail)"
Subject: Sandy's Pup
Message-ID: <01BDD45A.218A5160@fei1-p15.telepac.pt>
Hi Sandy
Great Job. beautiful Model. let us see more of your PC10 things please.=20
Last year I bought the "Colourful Pup" sheet from blue rider and now =
that I've seen how great it looks, I'll definitively will have to build =
another Pup some time in the future.=20
Please, show us some more work. It's really a pleasure for one's eyes.
Um abraco
Pedro
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:34:06 -0400
From: Alberto Rada
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Sandy's Pup
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980830193406.00a3f2c0@argonaut.net>
Sandy
FELICITACIONES
Beautiful piece of work,
WE WANT MORE MORE MORE
saludos
Alberto
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:05:43 GMT
From: "Leonard Endy"
To: wwi
Subject: New Trivia and Guillows kits wanted.
Message-ID: <35e9e83a.11443475@legend.firstsaga.com>
Yipes, I haven't been to look at Sandy's Pup yet, but I will as soon
as I'm done.
Added a new Trivia Pic to the Swap'N'Shop pages and a request from a
modeler looking for some Guillows kits who has Aurora/K&Bs to swap.
Its on the misc page.
Len
Visit the Swap'N' Shop pages...
http://www2.firstsaga.com/lfendy/fof_site.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:22:29 -0500
From: Bill Bacon
To: wwi
Subject: Sandy's Pup
Message-ID: <35E9ECC5.4AFE@netjava.net>
WOW!!!! WOW!!!! Great stuff but it's a damned funny looking PC-10
. Sandy we want more.
Cheers,
Bill B.
------------------------------
End of WWI Digest 1185
**********************