One of the regular callers to my local weekday radio show has been telling me for years the answer to my countrys woes is secession. He makes liberals foam at the mouth but if you take a moment to read a few more paragraphs youll see Rick from Lewes may be ahead of the curve.

Syria being the possible exception this has been a great week for totalitarians. In Washington and elsewhere across the United States the liberals claim theyve been vindicated and are planning to chair John Roberts across Capitol Hill. When I was a teenager my Grandmother Colley handed me an old worn book. A History of Pyrrhus was the title and it was a surprisingly good read. Its also why, unlike the lefties I dont need to look up the meaning of Pyrrhic Victory.

While Remember Obamacare may not have the same ring as some historic rallying cries I see tremendous opportunity for liberty loving people and the candidates seeking their votes. Every candidate for House, Senate and President opposed to the march of big government can now attach Obamacare to a weak economy and thats the positive side of todays ruling. Theres also a darker outcome increasingly on the horizon and its secession.

I think youre going to be hearing more people in polite society raising the possibility of going our own way. Do you think there are now more fellow American citizens in Arizona this week considering the meaning of sovereignty?

Some months ago I was watching MSDNC (for research purposes) and Eugene Marvin the Martian Robinson of the Washington Post was telling his host the question of state sovereignty had been answered during the Civil War. Really? The war didnt end when one side raised the white flag and admitted the other had a more valid constitutional argument. It ended when one hungry side grew weary of bleeding. One member of my radio audience this week explained liberals traditionally support the secession of portions of states. West Virginia split from a larger unit during the Civil War and when the shooting stopped and the smoke cleared it never re-entered Richmonds orbit.

There are a great many more reasons the word secession will gain more currency in political conversation. One of Eugene Robinsons fellow columnists at the Post is writing about an economic stagnation lasting for generations. Robert Samuelson is neither conservative nor liberal according to his colleagues. He writes simply about dollars and cents and Monday argued the world and its competing nations must blaze a new economic path because as weve learned domestically consumer spending as an engine of growth has limits. Such as when indebted consumers can no longer spend.

Samuelson didnt offer a solution for an obvious diagnosis. He isnt an alarmist but you dont need to be a PhD in economics to imagine life could become a serious struggle even for the traditionally comfortable of the Western World. A couple of summers ago the economist Robert Prechter writing a guest commentary for the New York Times predicted the worst economic downturn in three hundred years. Months later I saw him on television and he backed away from his warning. Then this past spring he came full circle, predicting a deflationary implosion that would rattle the globe.

Even the most brain-addled liberal understands governments cant coerce without revenue. See Greece, Spain and California. Eventually the police and jailers dont get paid and they join the looting and burning. Obamacare isnt going to break the bank. It was broken a long time ago. The weight of Obamacare and other government programs supported by borrowing and taxing are going to implode the United States. Taxpayers in some states are going to rebel when told they need to pay for bad governance in the Northeast and California. Throughout the Southwest this will be coupled with anger at supporting Central and South Americans running roughshod across borders. When Texas and the Rocky Mountain States secede the federal government wont have the resources to stamp out the rebellion.

Rick from Lewes isnt just a guy off the streets. He was an assistant at the U.S. Justice Department. Rick worked for Robert Bork. Rick argues the liberals will rejoice as the red states go their own way. It means the left can consolidate power in the remaining Decrepit States of America. Eventually the leftist empire will collapse and the walls will fall and there will be a new dawn for a liberty loving USA. But for a Justice Bork this week.

I remember reading just a few years ago about some political analyst's in the USSR predicting we would eventually split up into 5 separate countries. I was aghast at the time. Now I wonder how they could know so far ahead.

"Rick argues the liberals will rejoice as the red states go their own way. It means the left can consolidate power in the remaining Decrepit States of America. Eventually the leftist empire will collapse and the walls will fall and there will be a new dawn for a liberty loving USA."

There is a part of me that would like to put conditions on the re-entry of said states. Unfortunately, in some cases, they won't be repentant, only seeking some relief while all the time scheming to re-institute their misery on those who are more prosperous.

Conditions would be: 1. Political leaders of said states would be imprisoned for life without possibility of parole, subject to a review of their activities in political office, and would be barred from future political office, engagement in the legal arena, or associations with government. Recidivists would invite prosecution of a capitol offense. 2. Members of the media in those states, who have engaged in blatant propaganda (knowingly or unknowingly) in support of said governments shall be banned from any future association with media activities. Recidivists and their enablers would be jailed similar to item 1. 3. Public school curricula would be reconstructed, subject to a review of subject matter. Educators would be evaluated on their history in the classroom as to whether they could continue in their careers. 4. Businesses that have been in partnership with said governments, and shown to have received favorable treatment (read:cronyism) shall have their corporate officers under review and those found to have been engaged in fraud shall be treated similar to the politicians in item 1. 5. Upon acceptance into union with the successful states, any and all laws that do not comport with the US Constitution will be null and void, and those arrested under said laws will have their cases reviewed for potential commutation of sentence or pardon.

I could think of more, but I no longer have any good will towards lefties. None.

Well I would like to see us try a Constitutional Convention to reestablish limited government with the Republic intact. That being said the writing is on the wall and people that want to live free had better be prepared to take the gloves off now, not at some hypothetical breaking point later.

I live in Texas and I can actually see the citizens possibly considering secession. Yes, they are that angry and they want to be free. If we don't win in November PLUS keep the republicans on track to repeal Obama care then the wheels will begin to turn. I can see Texas having Perry say something to the effect of Obama care stops at the Texas border, no taxes, no penalties, no exchanges, no IRS agents. Accept it or you will be down to 49 states and counting. It sounds crazy but Obama and Roberts have put us on a path to disintegration.

Let's not kid ourselves-the seeds of secession have been getting sown for several years now.

First, you have the "Sanctuary Cities." Then there is Arizona attempting to control its foreign border because the elites in Washington won't do so. Now we have states talking about opting out of Obamacare.

I have been straining to figure out how the U.S. will collapse. I concluded that secession will be the mechanism. When more and more states defy Washington, how can the federal government pay for armies to suppress them?

The list would be a really good restart, although I would be just as happy to see them destitute, broke as the Ten Commandments first and begging for us to save them from those mean ol Nova Scotians and British Columbians.

Being a native Texan, I don’t need to say where I stand.

11
posted on 07/02/2012 6:50:24 PM PDT
by X-spurt
(It is truly time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)

My conditions would be much simpler: You made your bed, now lie on it.

LIBs have been the cause of all the problems we face - loss of jobs, wastrful spending, illegals preferential treatmnet, no energy policy, disregard for the Constitution, etc. Once gone, close and bolt the door.

12
posted on 07/02/2012 6:54:58 PM PDT
by NTHockey
(Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)

Possible, but I don’t think it likely in the case of a reasonably peaceable parting of the ways. I actually think that the left would be delighted to see some of the red states go it on their own. While I don’t consider myself a secesher, thanks to our scotus its well on its way to becoming a strategy openly discussed in polite company.

14
posted on 07/02/2012 7:12:45 PM PDT
by RKBA Democrat
(The political game is rigged.)

Great point. Then to top it off, when Putin was sworn in on May 7, 2012 - he said that Russia was NOW a “Democracy”!
That’s Not MY kind of Democracy- or Yours! How dare he! A Two faced jerk-monster! Now THAT makes me boil!
We have the best Western - Out-standing Democracy: a Constitutional Republic. All other countries want it; our valiant military men are fighting - and have laid down their lives for it. We won’t let them down.

Yes, you are right - I also read the same thing about dividing up the world. - We are one tough country! We will turn into a fire-breathing DRAGON if that ever happens! We have power! We have history of standing strong for our country! No one is going to split us up!
So...look out UN - NATO: Don’t even think of coming into our country! We will always stay SOVEREIGN! That’s it! That’s the end of it! Period, Exclaimation Mark!
Have a FANTASTIC-SUPER 4th of July!

15
posted on 07/02/2012 7:25:29 PM PDT
by wormhunter
(We will never let down our military!)

I live in Texas and I can actually see the citizens possibly considering secession...

Whenever the subject of secession comes up, my first thought is of Texas, a state with the resources to go it alone. But here's the question: aren't there too many Hispanics in that state that would not go along? I don't think of them as being steeped in and/or revolutionary on the matter of the principles of U.S. Constitution.

Your thoughts, please.

16
posted on 07/02/2012 7:26:55 PM PDT
by OldPossum
( "it's" is the contraction of either "it is" or "it has"; "its" is the possessive pronoun)

You raise valid points that are still irritants within reunited Germany. After a point, the mentality and philosophies just do not mesh anymore - of course, that is the premise behind dissolution in the first place.

17
posted on 07/02/2012 7:27:54 PM PDT
by Psalm 144
(Government HealthControl. Uniting the compassion of HMOs and the diligence of bureaucracy.)

We will never get back the power Washington steals seemingly on a weekly basis now. The Feds will always choose what's best for the Feds. It's not just Democrats who do it, so do Republicans. Secession is the only logical response but, be forewarned, there's no turning back.

A free Republic of Texas with it's own ports, own power grid and own sources of energy could protect their own borders, establish their own financial and government centers, institute a flat tax and run economic circles around the United States if it holds fast to principles of individual rights and freedoms over the power of an overintrusive government.

In fact, Texas has the medical facilities now to be the doctors of choice to all those who want to flee ObamaCare and the Canadian Health Care system as soon as they cut ties.

All we need are enough people with the vision and the courage to make it happen.

” - - - America is in a financial death spiral caused by two Presidents who destroyed 4,000 BILLION dollars each. By any reasonable estimate, this is a US Federal Government-caused disaster.

So, my FR friend, are you saying: Better the disaster we know than the disaster we dont know? Seems like all the frogs in that pot of very warm water are probably thinking that very same thought.

BTW, Article V was designed by our founders to allow citizens to Escape From Captive Government. Each State shall hold its own Constitutional Convention.

It will take many years to reach the required majority, 32 States. During that time, those who desire the European Style Feudal System, today called Socialism, will be put on notice that their parasitic days are numbered.

37 posted on October 3, 2011 5:18:38 PM CDT by Graewoulf ( obama”care” violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.)”

____________

BTW, note the date of the above FR quote.

FDR began the Forced European Socialism of America with his now bankrupt Social Security System. For almost 80 years the Keynesian “dogma of debt” has ruined the economy of America. Obama”care” is the Death Knell for the finances of America, and the end of the Forced European Socialism Movement.

Bolsheviks Dodd, Franks, Obama and Traitor John Roberts have made the splitting of of the former USA inevitable, each in their own way with no check and balance coming from either political party.

Without an effective check and balance system, the Federal Government quickly shifts into the despotism that has made Europe so popular with Dictators, a point not lost on our Dictator Obama.

Article V Constitutional Conventions are an excellent method to avoid the bloodshed that we had with our Civil War.

I favor multi-State Republics with shared economic interests such as one that includes the States that the XL Pipeline will eventually be built through. Another Republic would be all of the States that the Mississippi River flows through. Atlantic and Pacific Republics are obvious, as is a Republic for the Rocky Mountain States.

In this manner people could vote with their feet and choose the amount of personal Liberty that they desire.

For me it will be the region based the Free Market “Invisible Hand” of Adam Smith, with NO Government safety nets!

If succession ever does occur any sitting president has the Lincoln Playbook right at hand and with the rise of PC tin soldiers to control the armed forces and the gayification of the services and the enshrinement of PC values of diversity as the most important thing to the armed services the regular armed forces will behave in a predictably Stalinist fashion towards any state or states attempting to defect from the USSA.

There seems to be this conventional wisdom that a secession effort on the part of a state would result in war. I’m not seeing why. There are several historical examples where that has not been the case, e.g. the split of the Czech and Slovak republics. There is a good way to avoid violence; don’t initiate it. And in any case, there are plenty of other political avenues besides secession that have yet to be tried. It may well come to that for some states, but its not the only strategy out there.

29
posted on 07/02/2012 10:11:49 PM PDT
by RKBA Democrat
(The political game is rigged)

The reason any secession attempt will be resisted with force is that the US government has an unstated but clearly known doctrine that ‘secession is illegal’ pure and simple. Any attempt to break away will be violently resisted by any sitting president and he or she will have a lot bigger armed forces to do it with than A. Lincoln did in April 1861. How such an effort will end is another matter.

The crack in your argument that I see is that the splits that led us to where we are now are fundamentally cultural, with ethnic tensions added by the left to divide and conquer the country as a whole. Just as Attorneys General from 26 states banded together to take Obamacare to the Supreme Court, so it will be with secession.

Where Texas goes, so Arizona goes, and Oklahoma, Mississippi, probably Lousiana, Alabama for sure, Georgia and on and on. The problem the Left has is that culturally, the Red states, especially in the South, have a much stronger culture with respect to family, education, work and productivity, and obviously tax revenue generation than bankrupt Blue states like California, Michigan, NY and NJ. The blue states have a much higher percentage of unions, parasites and suck much more of fed revenues than the red ones.

The discussion of secession is not one the Left would want to engage. Their whole existence is dependent on dependents. Look at our own American Revolution to see how the power of the will for freedom and self-determination by the productive class overcomes overwhelming adversities. The dependent class is not suited for such a fight. No discipline, no culture, just pitiable dependency.

I disagree. There's no appetite for war, particularly on the part of the Left after Iraq. The thought of shooting or bombing "fellow Americans" would be untenable, particularly if done during the term of a wimpish Republican such as Mitt Romney.

If the action is non-violent in the "we want a divorce" mode met with a Texan resolve of "we're just not going to sit here and obey Washington's dictates any more", I think freedom can be won because then neither the Left nor the Right would support Romney in a military response.

The trick would be to erect border fences (on the states) and print currency so that a secession action can begin establishing itself as a new country from the beginning. If you have borders, money and strong leadership with a plan to execute, the new nation can start operations before DC knows what happened.

I think it can be won without firing a shot. The new nation would have to be willing to negotiate with DC on various federal operations on Texas soil (military bases, etc.) and Texas will have to pay for some of their freedoms but if you explain it like a business that divests one of their assets in order to raise funds to keep the other businesses afloat, a capitalist like Romney can even see some sense for the US to let Texas go their own way.

Simply have Texas' governor announce "effective today, we will no longer obey the orders of Washington DC nor send them our tax revenue. We are forming our own nation with our own Constitution and our own currency. We will begin today to establish sovereign foreign relations with any country that wishes to recognize us and commence doing trade with then. We come in peace and do not wish any form of violent confrontation. No citizen of Texas will be held against their will if they wish to leave but if they do leave, we reserve the right to control our borders and those leaving may not automatically be allowed to return..."

"Whenever the subject of secession comes up, my first thought is of Texas, a state with the resources to go it alone. But here's the question: aren't there too many Hispanics in that state that would not go along? I don't think of them as being steeped in and/or revolutionary on the matter of the principles of U.S. Constitution. Your thoughts, please."

You are correct. There are a lot of Hispanics here but in general I don't sense they have the "activist" mentality that you see in other states. They have a more "along for the ride" type approach. Texans have treated them fairly well and they seem to return the favor. Sure we have some of the protester types but I don't think we have near the numbers of them here. So in short I don't think they would voice much of an opinion at all.

While I'm not a native Texan I have now lived here for 30 years. At this point I can't imagine living anywhere else. I really hope we can turn this thing around in November but I seriously have my doubts. Sending a bunch of new Republicans to DC with the idea that as soon as they get there they will vote to give themselves considerably less power and influence seems like an unlikely event. And that's assuming we keep the house, then take the Senate and the Presidency.

For the record. I favor a Constitutional Convention to reestablish limited Government. This can be done without the breakup of the Republic. A CC is really just a way for the states to amend the constitution and limit the federal government when the federal government refuses to do it themselves. This is the very day the framers had in mind when the option to amend the Constitution by convention was added.

Below is the secession map the Left proposed when John Kerry was defeated in 2004. We are two culturally different peoples, and our cultures are not compatible. A friendly divorce will be best for everyone.

The states calling for the constitutional convention can limit the agenda at the convention in the enabling legislation. For example a preset list of proposed amendments would only be considered. For that we would need a certain amount of pre-planning and coordination among the probably Republican controlled legislatures calling for the convention.

Unfortunately the left does have a big appetite for violence if they can get someone like BATF thugs to perpetrate it. A visit to various leftist web sites including DU is quite an educational experience. The left literally has a visceral generalized hatred of middle class white Red state voters. They would certainly like to kill a lot of them and destroy as much of middle class America as possible. There are plenty of people who have an ‘orders are orders’ mentality in the military and there are quite a few leftist statists among the minority officers. I have heard black USAF officers describe how they would like to air raid and bomb Columbia SC when the SC government kept flying the CSA battle flag from the Statehouse. A major unstated, but to me obvious, reason for ending DADT, demands for women to be integrated into combat units and the USAF purge of openly evangelical faith is to create a more PC military that will consist of a lot of dependent class types and various fringe characters with a generalized dislike for America that will be willing to follow careerists conscienceless leaders to turn their weapons on the American people.

Texas would have the best change of an independent existence. It has oil to back up any currency and a strong sense of cultural and political identity. However, this is likely to be the last election the GOP will win easily in Texas. The advance of Hispanic identity politics casts a pall over that state. Witness Perry stupid remarks on immigration. Also note the type of people who are the mayors of cities such as Dallas and Houston. The liberal rot is spreading within every state with any significant ‘diversity’ population.

The real lesson of the Civil War seems to be lost on everyone. The real lesson to learn from the Civil War is that 11 states completed disassociated from the Federal Govt. and created a new central govt. in 4 weeks, from scratch. This was done during the age of the telegraph while being invaded at the same time. FedGov power is an illusion and paper thin.

47
posted on 07/03/2012 7:27:30 AM PDT
by central_va
( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)

Your view of the Hispanics in Texas is along the lines that I, a non-Texan, see them, pretty much a passive section of the population not prone to do anything along the lines of really activating what our Founders had in mind when they inserted the 10th Amendment to the Constitution.

It’s just that I see them as an impediment to those in Texas who believe in States rights, which I agree with you can now only come about by a Constitutional Convention. I see Texas as leading the way with such a convention.

Like you, I hope that we can settle this situation by the democratic process, i.e., vote out the Democrats and vote in activist Republicans who can restore the kind of government we once enjoyed.

Yes, I know that “activist” and “Republican” is a strange combination of words in the same sentence but miracles do happen.

49
posted on 07/03/2012 7:36:28 AM PDT
by OldPossum
( "it's" is the contraction of either "it is" or "it has"; "its" is the possessive pronoun)

For me the issue is what is happening at the state level. States will have to decide what is best for their futures. Many states suffer from unfunded mandates and already find the federal tax buden is unsustainable. High-employment states, like those in the South are carrying the load for more liberal states.

Taking the producing states and their tax revenues away only worsen the burden for the more dependent states. It forces the other states to make very big decisions to go Left or Right.

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