Immediately following the interview, both Kirwan and Ryan had a few things to say about the Bucs, specifically about the Bucs’ tight end situation.

Both seem to be concerned that the Bucs have not addressed the tight end position, aside from acquiring Packers backup Tom Crabtree, who left Ryan rather flat.

Tim Ryan: Pat at one point the Bucs were 6-5 and I did the Carolina game where [Josh] Freeman led them down the end with some great drives and terrific dimes, throws to Vincent Jackson and Dallas Clark for the win. Then they lose four of their next five games. I still think – it sounds like Dallas Clark is ready to hang it up and go into retirement – I guess Tom Crabtree has the skill sets. I guess, but to me he is more of a blocker than a receiving tight end. I don’t believe they have that guy on the roster as I see it.

Pat Kirwan: I don’t either. That is why I asked if they were still in the hunt for somebody. I mean, they are not going to show their hand to us which is totally understandable but I agree with you. I think you have to go get a tight tend. Maybe in the back of their minds they think Clark may come back and you can get him late for the short term. For Bucs fans, go look at who drafted tight ends. Is there a veteran one of those teams who may be threatened and therefore, expendable? Go at it that way and see if you can come up with a name no one is thinking about now.

Kirwan brings up a good point. Who drafted tight ends? That is likely where you will see a tight end cut.

Now Joe is told the Bucs have high hopes for Crabtree. No, he didn’t show a lot of offense, but the Bucs believe he has the skills to go down the middle to haul in passes. It’s just that he had little opportunity stuck behind Jermichael Finley on the depth chart.

Now Joe also spoke with someone who was with Josh Freeman out in public a week or so ago. One fan went up to Freeman and asked if the Bucs were going to draft a tight end. Freeman shrugged and said, in so many words, don’t bank on it because in Mike Sullivan’s offense, the tight end is not utilized often.

This would explain why Dominik has not made a splash in getting a tight end. What’s the point of getting a stud tight end if he isn’t used in the Bucs offense?

So go ahead and take the Kirwan test. What tight end is vulnerable to getting cut because his team drafted a tight end? And could said tight end be in play for the Bucs?

60 Responses to “The Bucs And A Tight End”

If Dominik & Schiano feel comfortable with Stocker and Crabtree in that role then I support their decision. They certainly know more about the Bucs needs than some analyst. But yes, it’s still possible they’ll add another guy to the mix before the season starts.

I find it silly of that you believe that your guess is as good as Doms or Schianos when it comes to what the Bucs needs are or what fits best for the Bucs tight ends or any other position for that matter! Their “guess” as you call it is based off of hours upon hours of film study on players. Not to mention you don’t know what fits their scheme as well as they do. Unless you are on the coaching staff and are only here to mingle with fans. Try are paid professionals and we are not. So something tells me their “guess” is betters than yours.

I dont understand this sentiment among some fans. Our opinions simply do not match those running things at One Buc. We may REALLY like or love football but these guys (Dom, Schiano, etc) live, eat, and breath football 24/7. The people running this team were not chosen at random and they just happen to be there at the right time. Their full time job is evaluating/coaching players and it has been for the majority of their lives. There is simply no comparison.

“The only difference is they are paid members calling the shots for the Bucs”

That and a couple decades of experience in football related work.

It is as if you are saying the opinions a corporate CEO has for his huge corporation hold as much weight as ours. That’s just not how it works. The worst GM in the league still could run this team about ten times better than anybody posting here based on experience alone.

Sometimes it just amazes me that some people think all it takes to be a GM is signing certain guys. Click a button and *poof* he is on the roster. Never taking into account the actual language that goes into each contract and whether said player even wants to be here for various reasons? (Maybe a Panther/Saints fan growing up? haha) Never taking future salary cap into account. Never thinking of the opportunity that is taken away from a younger player with upside by signing an aging vet. There are so many factors but some people here just see “X” player is available and we have money, Dom must suck because he isn’t here.

On a serious note, do Dom and Schiano have a crystal ball to see what TEs will be made availalbe between now and the roster cut down to 53, no…

So, a lot can happen, and you have hear Dom say, “We always look at improving the competition on this team”. So, anything is possible.

The beauty of this country is to have the freedom of speach, and the freedom to be heard. I read these posts every day, excited to see what other Buc fans are thinking, and a lot of fans make great points.

Don’t devalue an opinion of another just because they are not the Bucs GM or head coach.

What is the point of having a dicussion board, if the only people who “know anything” are Dom/Schiano.

They run a tight ship, and it is exciting to speculate about the well-being of our beloved Bucs.

West Coast says: “The worst GM in the league still could run this team about ten times better than anybody posting here based on experience alone.”

Maybe? Who knows? “anybody posting here” is a pretty broad term.

I was called a “Matt Millen” like for the truth I shed on Tavon Austin, and I will continue to add my point of view.

After all, it is really fun to speculate about which direction the team will go in. I am hoping for 2013: winning recor, playoffs, and an established Buc QB.

West Coast says: “There are so many factors but some people here just see “X” player is available and we have money, Dom must suck because he isn’t here. ”

Yeah, I sure do. I was bellowing for Revis, and Tavon Austin > Eifert, and 2012-not drafting Mo Claibourne.

Until I see the next Sapp, Brooks, Lynch, and Barber out on D, I will have my questions. It may be unfair, but we have won the super bowl before, and I would love to see my team have a taste for the NFL crown, again.

The only options I see, going by Kirwans logic, is Brent Celek and Jason Witten. Both players have new rookie TEs who are supposed to be top notch TEs. I dont see the Bucs trading to get either one of these players nor do I see either one of the teams giving up these players, this year. With that said I think Crabtree is very underrated, I have seen this guy make a lot of plays for GB when given the opportunity. The main thing I like about him is that he can block. Bucs are going to pound the ball this year and a blocking TE is more beneficial to us right now. We have plenty of weapons and I am sorry but if Freeman cannot succeed in this offense, maybe one of the most stacked offenses the Bucs have ever had, he needs to be canned!!!

Stevek’s viewpoints are emblematic of what is wrong with a certain percentage of the Bucs fan base. They actually believe, and I know this is hilarious, that their opinion is just as “valuable” as that of an NFL head coach or GM. If this wasn’t so sad it would be unbearably funny.

The delusion of self-importance someone must suffer to believe like that is amazing. It’s the equivalent of me walking into a doctor’s office and telling him, with a straight face, that because I used to watch the television show E.R. every week that my opinion of how he should treat his patients is just as important as his own. This despite the fact that he went to four years of college, four years of medical school, at least two years of residency and however many years since then of treating patients in real life. I would be laughed out of there and rightfully so.

These coaches and GM’s have spent their entire adult lives around the game of football being coached, played and managed at the highest levels. It’s all they do and it’s all they’ve ever done. They have access to the very best information, analysis and resources. This is who they are and what they do, day in and day out. To come into the conversation as a “fan” who watches television or goes to games, or reads online resources, etc, and think you’re on the same playing field as these guys is not only delusional it’s downright disrespectful.

Yeah, I think it is safe to have fan opinions being weighed in, just as severlal UDFAs come here to try out. They come here to try and prove they are better than a draft selection by the so called “experts”.

If Ozzie Newsome was our GM, then I would sit back in awe, because we would win, win, and win some more.

Until we have a winner, all opinions and ideas should be heard, because 24-40 is just not winning football

Did I devalue your opinion? Sorry if I hurt your feelings. You make statements that your guess is as good as Doms or Schianos is like me saying I saw an X-ray of RG3s knee and thinking I know better than Dr. Andrews. Which would be silly for me to think. I read the message boards for the articles and to I retract with other fans. From now on I will agree with everything you say.

“Stevek’s viewpoints are emblematic of what is wrong with a certain percentage of the Bucs fan base. They actually believe, and I know this is hilarious, that their opinion is just as “valuable” as that of an NFL head coach or GM. If this wasn’t so sad it would be unbearably funny”

^^ Incorrect, but it is SILLY, FOOLISH, and LIMITING on your own part to sit back and digest losing.

I know my thoughts, opinions, and view points may not coincide with yours, Dom’s, or Schiano’s, and who cares?

As far as your Dr.’s office comparison, you are missing the point. I am not a genius, GM, or Head Coach of an NFL team, but I love Buccaneer football, and I will have my opinions until we start winning.

The head coaches and GMs have a career in football, true. Do they have a winning career? Yeah, not so far…

Vern, FL boy in Cowboy Land, and San Francisco Buc Fan are three of Dominik’s favorite lotion boys so they will rip anything you say about the alleged “rock star”, no matter how much proof you throw at them about his ineptness.

It’s one thing to have an opinion. We all have them. But to say that an NFL franchise should start taking public votes on how to run their organization and get public permission prior to making personnel decisions is ludicrous.

Just because I don’t back such silly delusional ideas doesn’t mean I accept losing. Dominik & Schiano have this team heading in the right direction and they will improve every year. I think most of the fan base agrees with that. They are on the uptrend, not on the downtrend as they were under Rah.

Stop judging them on what they used to be and start looking at the direction they’re moving in. It’s exciting times to be a Bucs fan again just like back in the late 90’s.

Is your “proof” the win/loss record? That seems to be the only argument left and it really is a non-argument. Half of Dom’s seasons were with first year head coaches. It is very rare to have a winning season in a coaches first year. Harbaugh in San Francisco and Gruden are the exceptions, not the rule.

What is your “proof”? Are you going bring up three year old transactions (or non-transactions, Haynesworth) as your proof? Give me a break.

I really think you are missing what people are saying about your post. Nobody is criticizing you for having an opinion. They are criticizing you for saying that your “guess” is as good as the Bucs front office. Nothing else, just that statement.

You couldn’t be more wrong. Do I agree with everything Dom does? No! But I also don’t believe I know more about football operations and scheme than him. It’s what he does for a living! As I stated before to think I know better than him is ridiculous. I do think Dom has done better the last couple of years. And want him to be the best GM in the NFL. Call it what you will. I call it being a Bucs fan.

If we are cherry picking which seasons to remove then why not his first season? Why not his third? His record looks considerably better when you remove either of those.

@Vern

Same here. If you point out someones flaws in their logic and it happens to be about Dom then you are a Dom lover. No way around it because these are the same people with the flawed logic to begin with.

If there is a chance at a significant upgrade, the Bucs will pull the trigger in a heartbeat. BUT, if you think for a second that we’ll go with a pure receiving TE, you’ve been doing some serious couch time with Tanard.
Blockiing is not undervalued in our scheme. We do have DMart after all. Besides, I’m convinced we can create coverage mismatches throwing from a two TE set. Both Stocker and Crabtree have adeqate hands for this Flashy? Nope. Move the chains? Yup.

Every time someone criticizes the “rock star”, his lovers accuse us of thinking we know more than him. That’s so stupid. I realize he knows more about football than me. Unfortunately, I DON”T think he knows more about football than the majority of the other GM’s in the NFL, and therein lies the problem. Quit with the crap that we think we know more.

Jason Witten and Jermaine Gresham’s cap hits would be too big, and the Eagles don’t need the money that they’d cut Brent Celek, and I don’t see any way the 49ers ditch Davis, he’s too important. None of the other names excite me…

stevek specifically said his guess was as good as the GMs. No one is coming out of left field accusing people of claiming to know more than Dom.

Also, where is the “proof” of this ineptness you speak of. I genuinely want to know because the only thing I hear people complain about is the win/loss record. A terrible argument for several reasons. Either that or people pointing to REALLY OLD transactions as “proof”. I am sure you can only offer the same so you probably wont provide any “proof” because there simply isn’t enough bad to “prove” the bad out weighs the good.

Maybe Dom & Schiano haven’t gone to great lengths to sign Dallas Clark or any other vet TE because they’re pretty much content with what’s on the roster and confident that groups’ capabilities of handling the demands of playing TE in Sullivan’s system. Maybe we’ll be seeing more 3-WR sets, which could cut into the amount of reps a TE can get, or maybe Luke Stocker is the answer and we’ve yet to see him after another year of development. Stocker’s performance against ATL got his foot in the door, hopefully with time and development he can be that Swiss-army TE we need.

Obviously you don’t read all the comments. No one accused anyone of saying anything that they didn’t write. He specifically said that his guess was as good as Doms and Schianos. Read all the comments then you can tell us what you think about what we say.

Broy3434 Says:
May 7th, 2013 at 2:29 pm
So Stevek you’re saying you won’t be satisfied until we have a HOF lb cb safety and dt? Then u might wanna just give up on football. Defenses don’t come around like that very often

Steve said his guess is as good as theirs, not that he thinks he know more about football than Dom.

Dom began his ineptness with his very first move as a GM – trading up to “reach” for Josh Freeman in the first round. That pick was widely criticized at the time – that isn’t something I’m saying 4 years later now that we’ve seen Freeman play. It was a big reach. And if you are going to blame that on Raheem, then don’t give Dom credit for the first 3 picks last year. Either he takes responsibility for all or none of the picks.

His accumulation of talent, or lack thereof, in the secondary last year, more specifically with cornerbacks, was dreadful. That alone cost the Bucs 3-4 games last year. He put all his eggs in Eric Wright’s basket and it didn’t work.

These are a few examples, along with his awful winning percentage. What proof are you able to provide that he isn’t inept? All teams make good draft picks, sign free agents, swing a few trades. Good GMs put out an entire 53 man roster that WINS – and wins consistently!

May 7th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
I wish Stevek and lightningbuc were the GMs of the Saints and Falcons.

Vern4499 Says:

May 7th, 2013 at 3:55 pm
Buc Wiley,

Great post. Haha

^^^^ So funny! About as funny as 24-40, losing streaks, no playoffs, and a QB that looks color blind for 25% chunks of the season at a time.

You all can laugh and rest easy knowing your Bucs are an underachieving team, but I take it personally. I go to work, and expect to be entertained, enthralled, and seeing the best possible football on TV. We haven’t have good football in Tampa for a while. It is time.

Stevek I understand your conviction, but dude you’re repeating the same thing over and over as if it will change anything. We know that his record is 24-40 and you have made that statement clear. Let’s all agree to disagree and move on, because no one is convincing anyone different. Can’t we all just wait to see what happens in training camp please.

Not sure how you feel about Freeman but he is at least a top fifteen quarterback. By no means a superstar but there are a lot of teams that would kill for a QB even of Freeman’s caliber. (However good or bad that is.)

He certainly made a mistake with the secondary last year. I am sure he will be a better GM because of it.

“All teams make good draft picks, sign free agents, swing a few trades. Good GMs put out an entire 53 man roster that WINS – and wins consistently!”

If all teams make good draft picks, sign free agents, swing a few trades then why doesn’t another team have Nicks, Jackson, Goldson, Martin, David, Barron, and Revis?

Money, right?

All players take the most money. (Just like Haynesworth way back when the Bucs outbid the Redskins but he chose them anyway.)

Also, Raheem and Dom both said at the time that Raheem was much more heavily involved in the selection of Freeman than a normal head coach would be. Dom gets less than usual credit for Freeman (good or bad) because of this. (But full credit for all draft picks following that pick.) And yes, he gets 100% of the credit for last years first three picks. There is no way you can convince me that a head coach could have ANY sort of an impact on a draft only weeks after he was hired, that is just asinine. (Especially when he said so himself.) This isn’t speculation, these are facts.

Proof he is at least a decent, middle-of-the-pack GM? He trades ONE first round pick and a third for the best corner in the game. Then promptly signs him to an incredibly team friendly, non-guaranteed contract. (No easy task, just ask the Jets.) This of course happens after acquiring a top five free safety coming off a Super Bowl appearance. The year before he acquires one of the best guards AND wide receivers in the league. (In their prime no less.)

I don’t think Dom is awesome or even great. If you look at his tenure as a whole, however, he has progressed and gotten better every year. Less Derrick Wards and more Vincent Jacksons. He hasn’t arrived yet. Still much work to be done but he has certainly showed an uncanny ability to cut his losses on a bad decision (except MyLew, ugh) and (more importantly) LEARN from his mistakes. Which is really all you can ask for.

You don’t judge a GM on win/loss. All the talent in the world can lose consistently. Look at the 49ers before Harbaugh? They didn’t magically add a bunch talent when Harbaugh showed up. Good coaching brought out the best in their already talented team. We have a real coach now. One that can actually work with the talent we have here. The team showed tremendous progress for a first year coach. That is only going to get better with the added talent and a second year of consistent, quality coaching.

I’ll be watching landi, though he may not make the team, he’s an excellent pass catcher, probably better than anyone else we have in that department. He could be useful in 3rd and long situations where running the ball is not likely.

Maybe check the name calling in his two prior posts before commenting on my “WEAKNESS”.

I would like to end this stevek. I never attacked your right to an opinion. Never. My only issue was your comment, “Schiano and Dominick have an idea of what the “team needs” are, but their guess is as good as ours. ”

That is it. That is the only thing I have a problem with. I am not asking you to be a fan of another team or calling you a Buc hater or trying to insult you. We need people with your passion rooting for this team. I just don’t think you realized what your words actually implied.

When the Buccaneer staff start asking for fans’ input on personnel decisions, then what the fans think will truly matter. The only authority a fan has in this situation is whether he/she spends money on tickets/merchandise or by watching the games on television. Even those factors are offset by revenue sharing.

“I was referring to the “guess is as good as ours” in terms of what is available at the TE position.”

I don’t even agree with that. I think Dom has the ability to look over rosters and talk with other GMs about who is likely to come available. (Thus making his “guess” better than ours.) It is over though if you really feel that your guess is as good as a GM’s.

No one is assaulting your allegiance or intelligence in here. I never said you were a moron. I especially never said that losing is even marginally acceptable. It most certainly is NOT. Ever. I just believe that our losing seasons were not a direct (or indirect) result of Dominik’s personnel decisions. The problems were with coaching and bad luck injuries. That is open for debate though.

Ballard had an exciting name last offseason when the Pats swiped from the Giants after they attempted to put him on IR. Wouldn’t mind seeing him brought in. The Pats have enough tight ends anyway. They need to share.