GIANTS NOTES: The parade, the three thousand-million dollar deal, and “Tiny Tim”

Wednesday’s parade put a cherry on top of another strong season for the Giants front office, and for a day, the Giants were content to simply celebrate. Soon, however, general manager Brian Sabean and his brain trust will snap back into action.

The Giants have nine free agents, several of whom were key members of the World Series run. Leadoff hitter Angel Pagan and No. 2 hitter Marco Scutaro both are free agents and are at the top of the offseason to-do list for Sabean and his staff. The Giants have indicated that bringing Pagan and Scutaro back is a top priority, but it could be difficult, especially with Pagan. The 31-year-old center fielder broke through in 2012, hitting .288 with 95 runs scored, 61 extra-base hits and 29 stolen bases.

Pagan said he loves San Francisco and the organization and hopes to come back, but when asked about his contract situation, said, “Now is a time for celebrating.” By Thursday it will be time to start negotiating. Players can start signing with other clubs on Nov. 3.

Scutaro joked that he already knows what he’s looking for in a new deal.

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“I want 15 years, three thousand-million dollars,” he said, smiling. “How do you like me now?”
The Giants like him plenty. Scutaro’s approach at the plate rubbed off on the rest of the lineup and he hit .362 after being acquired from the Colorado Rockies at the trade deadline. Scutaro carried that success into the postseason and was the MVP of the National League Championship Series.

After winning his first title, Scutaro, 37, said he would like to return to San Francisco.

“Of course I want to come back,” he said. “Sometimes there are things you can’t control. I don’t know what they’re thinking or what other teams are thinking. I just have to wait. The only thing I can say is that I hope everything works out, because I want to come back.”

Bringing Pagan and Scutaro back would keep the lineup intact, and the Giants have all five starting pitchers locked up. The bullpen is all but set, too, but Jeremy Affeldt is a free agent and could be one of the hottest names on the market after a strong regular season and scoreless postseason.

Affeldt, who just had his third son, is looking for a multi-year deal.

“Hopefully we can work something out,” he said. “This team has brought me a lot of joy for the last four years, and I can’t complain one bit about anybody. (But) I’ve got a family. When you have a family and you have an opportunity, a one-year deal is definitely not something I’m going to do.”

— The Giants will buy out Aubrey Huff’s contract for $2 million rather than pick up his $10 million option, making Huff a free agent. The team’s other free agents are outfielders Melky Cabrera and Xavier Nady, infielders Freddy Sanchez and Ryan Theriot, and relief pitchers Guillermo Mota and Brad Penny.

— Outfielder Hunter Pence is eligible for one final season of arbitration but said he would like to try and reach a long-term with the club.

“Absolutely – absolutely I want to stay,” Pence said. “I love it here. Hopefully we can find something that works for both sides. I love the city and I love playing for this team. I love the way the fans treat us here.”

It turns out that the bat he used for the double in Game 4 is named Happen. You all know Zeak and Nikko, of course, but those bats didn’t actually contribute much in games. The two hits in Game 3 came from Soar, and the famous Fryer came up with the triple-double against the Cardinals. (Fryer shattered).

Tiny Tim is the bat that was given to the Hall of Fame. Pence’s locker is two down from Tim Lincecum’s, so you’d think there’s a connection there. Nope.

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“It was a bad piece of wood,” Pence said of Tiny Tim. “But I knew that somehow he was going to get the job done.”

— Theriot, who scored the World Series-winning run, was the only Giant missing from the parade. He had to tend to a family emergency.

— Bench coach Ron Wotus said he has not been contacted by the Colorado Rockies, who are searching for a new manager. As many times as we see managers make ridiculous decisions in this game, it’s strange that Wotus — Bochy’s right-hand man during this streak of near-perfect decision making in the 2010 and 2012 postseasons — has not gotten an opportunity. Somebody would be getting a real good one in Wotus, and many in the organization are hopeful that he’ll get a shot. If it doesn’t work out, though, the Giants would be very happy to have him back.

— I was going to write a whole parade blog, but I already wrote a parade story and I’m weirdly tired and hungry after a whole day of standing around those crowds. San Francisco, man.

You can buy White Castle in the freezer section of your local Safeway!

brabon99

some real interesting tweets between the giants wives.

this team has a real family vibe.

may not help with the current fa’s, but definitely will with the kids who are coming up through the org.

brabon99

scoots plate approach is perfect for a guy who has pablo behind him

wonder if they will offer a minor league contract to freddie

ClutchUp

Here is a quick shoutout to “Jerry” Theriot. Hopefully his family emergency was taken care of. Great job by the Riot.

JD

Looking at Cot’s Contract, a rough (very rough) estimate of next season’s budget will be around $150M. This assumed that they’ll resign Pagan Scutaro, Affeldt, $2M to Huff for buyout and raises for various arbitration players (Posey and Romo will probably be the two most expensive).

So yeah, no big name free agent most likely. Which is fine by me.

Foothills Ryan

Sounds like a contact high for dear Alex. Fun!

brabon99

zito and romo on tonite show tomorrow

spartacus38

Great party today with a lot of emotion.Wonderful season.

Mario

Love Romo’s shirt. They still don’t wanna see us in the media. They wanna pretend we’re not here but WE’RE HERE AND HERE TO STAY BABY!!!

extra inning

I love Posey’s speech best as in 2010! The guy is so poised.

brabon99

mario

latins or mexican americans?

cuz mlb is now a latin mecca

shirt was funny and a black leather covered fist moment at the same time

romo gets the media…like most giants

most media savvy org in the pro game

Mr. Randy Watson

ugh… the Romo shirt is such a shame. My overwhelming initial reaction was ‘who cares, I dont… I dont want to care, but gosh I know people are going to care.’ But, I knew I was going to hear and see comments about it, and be sucked into the conversation. The reaction initiates my reaction. So who’s really to blame, Romo? Or the thin-skinned reactionaries?

He comes from a border town. He’s young. He’s obviously enjoying the fame. He’s into it. The way he hopped around outside the car, disobeying the rules. He’s embracing this role as the rebel closer. He’s worked hard, he succeeded. Good for him.

But damn it Romo, we all love you. Regardless of our political views. Even if I agree with you.. I wish you wouldn’t of worn that shirt. Not because I don’t agree with it, but because of the garb we’re going to have to read/hear about it now.

SurfCity

Romo’s shirt was great.

Kevin

Re: Wotus
Sabean had the chance twice (2003, 2007) to promote Wotus to manager and chose to go in a different direction. I wonder if other teams see that and think “what do the Giants know that we don’t?” why would another team be inclined to give him a chance when the organization that knows him better than anyone has passed him over multiple times?

ClutchUp

Ok here we go. I disagree with Paul @ 2. I don’t think Romos shirt was stupid nor do I think being young has anything to do with it. He toes the line every thurs morning on kNBR. Wilson and Torres left their vehicles in 2010. No rules were broken then or today. 2010 had the thong. Today we had Vogeys, you’re going to jail comment and Hunters revelations and Romos tee shirt. I did miss Jeery Theriot though. Eli’s tee shirt rocked the house also. Romos tee shirt was cool. All of Brawley was proud. This is a guy Fox interviwed in game FOREVER!

SurfCity

In the comments section on sfgate, the comments praising Romo’s shirt have overwhelming amounts of thumbs up while the thumbs down are in single digits.

It’s cool that the Giants won the World Series and all, but these communist inspired shinanigans from our closer have completely ruined my views of this team and the season.
Look Romo, this isn’t Vietnam…we have rules during our World Series parades that we all expect EVERYONE to follow. Rule #1 is to keep all body parts inside the vehicle at all times. Under no circumstance is a player to exit the vehicle while on the parade route.
I expect a very hefty fine to be issued to Romo. But the Giants must make a clear statement that they take their World Series Parade rules serious. I see no other option but for the Giants to issue Sergio Romo his outright release. If they don’t make their penalty severe enough just imagine what may take place during future parades! Since the late 80′s, when I became a serious Giants fan I had always envisioned a World Series Parade where ALL team members rode in their respective vehicles, calmly waving, politely smiling and

sfgate SurfCity.. as much as we hope everyone saw it our way, the rest of the country does not.

ClutchUp

THE GIANT NUT you are in rare form!

Marissa

Hey Randy Watson for someone who doesn’t care about it at all, you’ve written way more about it than anyone.

My gawd what a bed wetter you are. Another term would be concern troll

Just because you want minorities to be seen and not heard, in order to placate “the rest of the country,” don’t expect the rest of us to go along with your little puritan dicktates.

Marissa

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Giant Nut is right.

OH THE HUMANITY!

Mr. Randy Watson

See Surf? for all of GiantNut’s sarcasm, there ARE people who think like that!! That’s why it’s funny. And that’s why I’m not looking forward to the national coverage of Romo’s t-shirt on FoxNews tomorrow.

Mr. Randy Watson

I do everything for the children Marissa… you must not know my origins

Oh if only you were around to counsel Martin Luther King Jr. You could have averted that whole darn civil rights mess and nipped it right in the bud.

Mr. Randy Watson

Marissa? I didn’t think it would have to come to this obvious of most obviouses, or obvioussses, obviouss’s, whatever…

my point is this is sports. It was a world series parade. this argument should never of happened. I played devil’s advocate. and look who bought in… you.

My point proven.

brabon99

Mr. Randy Watson

if fox and the rest of the wingnuttery in this country make an issue of the shirt…the owner of the company will be ecstatic

he sold 100 today

romo is a one man stimulus package

extra inning

Romo ruined it. Instead of celebrating and enjoying the beautiful moment, people start to fight on ugly politics.

extra inning

This blog is reserved for sports. Please stop posting political comments here.

ClutchUp

Go back to the Bleacher report RW. Without your histrionics it would not be news. I think Mrs. Watson once tried correcting Alex on how he authored his blog. Said you once worked for the A’s. And what about some of your past potty mouth rants? Wow.

Lefty

Mr. R.W.: Catching up and just saw your analysis on the previous thread about Affeldt. I think you nailed it. Brandon League got closer money from the Dodgers. In my opinion, they overpaid him, but that’s what these new-look Dodgers do these days. League blew eight saves by May and was demoted from closer by the MARINERS before he was traded. Kenley Jansen is a better closer, in my opinion, so if the Dodgers want to overpay and miscast League, then good for the rest of the NL West.

Anyway, back to Affeldt. Most likely he’s had the success he’s had with the Giants BECAUSE of the way Bochy used him these last couple years. And as you pointed out, there have been times in his Giants’ career that he’s been unreliable–pretty much the whole 2010 season, for example. We forget that his stellar two innings of early relief in Game 6 of the NLCS in Philly was about his only good performance that whole year.

But he had a good year and an excellent postseason, and he wants to cash in. Growing family–can’t blame him. Wants the money; wants the stability. I wouldn’t object to signing him for 2-3 years (maybe two + option) for close to what they’ve paid him the last couple years. But if he wants closer money–well, he’s not a closer, and the Giants have not one but two closers returning next year, each of whom was on the mound when the Giants won a World Series.

So Affeldt may go elsewhere, and it may be surprise on him and especially his new team if he can’t live up to the expectations of a bigger contract and a more prominent role. I guess for him, whatever–he’ll have what he needs for his family. And the contract will be someone else’s problem, not ours.

Marissa? I didn’t think it would have to come to this obvious of most obviouses, or obvioussses, obviouss’s, whatever…

my point is this is sports. It was a world series parade. this argument should never of happened. I played devil’s advocate. and look who bought in… you.

My point proven.

Mr. Randy Watson

“So Affeldt may go elsewhere, and it may be surprise on him and especially his new team if he can’t live up to the expectations of a bigger contract and a more prominent role. I guess for him, whatever–he’ll have what he needs for his family. And the contract will be someone else’s problem, not ours.”

As usual, Lefty nails it.

Mr. Randy Watson

oh god I’ve been hacked

Mr. Randy Watson

See Marissa? Even Lefty agrees with me.

Can’t believe you fell for my fake comments about Romo. I did a double plus ungood jinx in my penultimate comment – and look who fell for it: you.

I’m right again.

Mr. Randy Watson

OR.. me and Foothills Ryan have been merged into the biggest uber-beast of sports blogs machines.. on a hell-ridden mission to take over the world, one beat writer at a time…

Mr. Randy Watson

And I love being merged with FootHills Ryan I must say.

Great Job Alex – one of the best columns ever written ever.

Mr. Randy Watson

I guess I should invest in an avatar? good job troll. but I never capitalize the H in Foothills. duh

Nameless Bob

Regarding Afeldt, the Tigers could sure use a good lefty in the pen.

I’m thinking our blog host got hooked on White Castle during his say in Detroit. I am from Detroit and always get a bunch of them when I go back to visit.

Get the cheeseburger White Castles frozen at Safeway. Follow the instructions which is to open one end of the plastic wrapper then nuke on high for one minute then let sit about 45 seconds. They are reminiscent of the true White Castle burger but not quite the same. No pickle. The bun is obviously not the same as a fresh one and the onions arent the same texture. But it is in the ballpark. It will tide you over until you are east of the Mississippi again.

Mr. Randy Watson

yes! look at that hot piece of shaved… I don’t know what that is. somebody help me

Mavo

Another great parade to cap off ANOTHER magical ride to a World Championship!!! A part of my illness makes me very emotional … and I had a hard time keeping a dry eye during the whole day … but maybe it would have been hard without my illness. Two World Championships in 3 years after waiting so long … and on my 60th birthday to boot … it is almost too much for this old “Seamhead” to handle!!!

San Francisco sure knows how to throw a party don’t we! I loved the whole show and it was so fantastic to hear and see Tony belt out “I Left My Heart in San Francisco” at his age! Do you realize that song was produced in 1962 … 50 years ago … when we had our FIRST World Series in The City!

Thank you to all of you who posted on this blog and enhanced my enjoyment of a fantastic season … you know who you are without me naming handles.

And finally, Thanks Alex! I was worried when we lost Baggs to CSN. But you proved to be just as fantastic and dedicated to this blog. Thanks for all your hard work all season! Good luck finding those White Castles … although I have to admit that craving is a mystery to me!!

San Francisco Giants 2012 World Champions of Baseball !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.bestmilliondollarbill.com Million Dollar

your information is very informative for me .Thanks for providing the information .

Foothills Ryan

Are we here for baseball? Or talking T-shirts. Randy, you’ve got to do better than engage with that troll. This is a persistent one. The blog has had a few but this one has been around. “Andrea the Astrologer”, Marissa, many different names. This one found my avatar image and uses it from time to time. I may change up my avatar soon to keeps things fresh. In the mean time, ignore that pathetic thing.

dgg

Thanks, Alex! Enjoyed your blog and the parade story. Now I know which one of Hunter’s bats was given to the Hall of Fame. I hope things get worked out between the Giants and Affeldt, Scutaro, and Pagan, and all 3 stay.

fergie348

Shirt? Whatever, it’s a free country, etc. About Scutaro and Pagan – much as I love those guys they shouldn’t get more than 2 year deals from this org. Brown and Panik are our best prospects – should be in the lineup by 2014, perhaps along with Peguero.

http://Contracostatimes PerSpeier35

Wow, what a different world guys like Affeldt live in. He’s concerned about cashing in big time for “his family” when he has already earned, and will continue to earn many more multiples of how much nearly everyone else in the country will earn in the entire lifetimes. I’m not jealous, just can’t relate to the greed that sets in for these guys. The Giants should avoid overpaying him at the expense of being able fill other needs. He ‘s a non-closing reliever, Sabean is pretty good at filling those roles.

As for Romo’s shirt – pretty dumb for the victory parade. By itself I think it is funny, just not the right time to wear it. Also, with that beard, he really doesn’t look like anyone else (other than Brian Wilson). Most illegals that I know are clean shaven or cloe to it.

Foothills Ryan

Here’s a very doable roster for just under 140 mil – don’t bother factoring buyouts into opening day roster – that’s a sunk cost from 2 years ago. I agree that Affeldt is too pricey. He was already too pricey. This bullpen features 3 guys who could close in Romo, Casilla and a strong Wilson. Heath Hembree working on his act in AAA. I’ve put Scott Feldman in there also for 5 mil, basically taking Affeldt’s money. His 9+ mil contract was declined but I think the bay area product would make a very good and valuable swing man for a rotation with no depth. Angel Pagan keeps getting more expensive every hour that passes which Sabean has not had him sign on the dotted line. I think this represents an overpay, but so is every sought after free agent. Perhaps it take 3/33 with an option and buyout to get it done even though there’s probably a 5/50 deal out there for. If he takes that, maybe a big deal for Upton is to be considered , or not. Conor Gillaspie you ask. Left handed bat off the bench for cheap.

I would not call Angel Pagans year a “breakout year”. He hit to his card.

He has been in the majors for 7 years and a starter of 3 or 4 of those years.

He it 288 with an OBP of 338 and slugging of 440.
His career average is 281, 333 and 424.
Slightly better than average and far from breakout in any of the categories

His BA this year ranks 3rd highest for any year.
It ranks 3rd in highest average over the past 4 years.
That is not breakout but actually below average of the past 4 years as a starter.

His OBP was also 3rd over the past 4 years. And his 4th best over 7 years.
His stolen bases were the 3rd most in 7 years.

His K to PA was over 14% as is his career stats.

Not to denigrate anything he accomplished, but it was not a breakout year.

Basically his year states what I stated earlier this year, If Pagan hits to his card , he will be fine for centerfield.

He hit to his card which is fine and quite serviceable but not breakout

Lefty

To be fair, the quotes I’ve heard from Affeldt have focused on him wanting a multiple-year deal, less so on the money. He says that because he has a family, he doesn’t want to bounce around on one-year deals. That’s understandable. He did reference League’s new contract, but that may have been in response to a question.

Affeldt does a lot of work for charity–he’s been the Giants’ finalist for the Roberto Clemente Award a couple of times–and I assume he gives a fair amount away. He doesn’t strike me as especially money-grubbing.

However, despite his four years with the Giants, I don’t know that the family has deep ties with the team or in the area. They live in Spokane. Some of the wives have really bonded with each other (I’ve seen a number of photos on Twitter of Windy Pagan, Nicole Vogelsong, Ali Bumgarner, and Haylee Belt together at home and on the road). But maybe Mrs. A. has been too busy with three babies in five years to hang out with the girls.

Anyway, Mrs. A. said loud and clear in the parade: “I’m done.” No more lucky World Series babies!

Dirty Al

After a season of individual magical performances, the euphoria should be tempered regarding future personnel.

Who doesn’t remember the interest in bringing back Huff after 2010.

What currently just happened doesn’t automatically transfer to the following season, which begins just a few months from now. It always strikes me how quickly things, players can change.

Pagan, Blanco, Affeldt, Vogey, and even Scutaro could be quite different. There is an understandably normal sense of wanting to retain everybody who just won. It seldom happens. That’s why it’s so hard to repeat, and why 2 out of 3 is so special.

I was struck by how different the roster was in 2011 from 2010, and how different it was still in 2012 from those two years.

There will be different players next year, and guys that had poor years this year may have better ones next. And vice-versa.

Spring training fever sets in soon, and the rabid discussions will begin anew.

For now, it’s time to revel in the spoils of sweet victory. Savor it for all it’s worth.

Kyle Perizi

Dearest Alex,

Thank you for sleuthing out the mystery of Nikko and Zeak’s WS where a bouts. I was very emotionally invested in Nikko and was disappointed that he did not see any WS action.

Ill be very interested to see if Arias’s new found offensive pop will resume next year, if it does, he’ll be quite a weapon next year.

2holehitting

Brian Wilson should not get $5M untill you know what you are going to get. He is what 32 now and a second Tommy John. I think you go and offer him a 1 year $1Million incentive laden contract with an option year at 5Million.

Wilson is out of a closer role. Romo was consistent and solid. He did not create the torture that Wilson did with his walks.

I agree Afeldt is likely moving on unless he wants 2 years at $5Million. Mijares is a more than adequate replacement and they have Runzler and Surkamp as potential lefties if a third is needed.

Hunter Pence is an unkown. He certainly did not establish himself as a $12M player in the 2+ months. Yes he was a cog and had a couple key hits thorugh that time but anyone given that much time would have that as well. Would you rather have Pence at 270 and 20+ homers of Melkey at 300 with 12-15 homers and $8-10M?

Blanco is cheap and a great glove but was inconstent as well. He is serviceable.

I still believe that while Belt has shown inconsistent promiss he could be upgraded if they want to bump to $150M. The question is who could you get for the upgrade?

LR

I think Romo’s shirt is great. Unlike Paul at #2, I think Romo is completely grown up and has managed to stay a human being while playing professional sports. That’s as big an accomplishment as his 9th inning performance in game 4.

Lefty

Interesting analysis, 2holehitting. Blanco and Vogey are under team control, so they’re not in the same category as the others.

I’m not convinced that Mijares or Runzler are adequate replacements for Affeldt, but given his possible price tag, they may be deep enough to get by without him.

I share your hesitation about Pence and his value for the price, but don’t hold your breath about Melky. I think that ship has sailed and (unlike Bengie Molina) will not sail back.

As for Belt, I know you’ve never been a fan, but he’s not going anywhere. He’s young and cheap and they need to spend their money on outfielders, on Scutaro, and on an extension for Buster. If Belt doesn’t develop into more of a producer in the next 1-2 years, you may see some changes, but I’m sure they feel he did well enough this year to go forward with him for now.

Also, as you noted, the free agent market for first basemen is not appealing at all. Here’s an article on the “top 10 free agent 1Bs,” just published yesterday. It is not an impressive list, and here’s the short version: All ten of them had lower batting averages in 2012 than Belt did. Only three of them had more home runs: LaRoche (who wants to stay with the Nats and turned the Giants down twice before 2010), Carlos Pena (19 HRs but only hit .197 and is 34), and Ty Wiggington (11 HRs for the Phils but hit .235 and had fewer RBI than Belt–also is a terrible defender).

When you look at this list, you can appreciate Belt, especially at his tender age and low salary.

I think it’s more likely that the Giants trade or release Gillaspie than that he’s on the roster come April. He’s got Pablo and Arias ahead of him, Chris Dominguez behind him (playing 3B in the AFL right now–current batting average .357 with 3 HRs and OPS of 1.150), and even Adam Duvall in San Jose (led the whole org with 30 HRs). I think Gillaspie’s day has come and gone.

Also not quite sure why you’d want Nady, even for $1 mil. I get that they were desperate after Melky was suspended, but I’m not sure he showed enough to bring him back. I’d rather fill in the 4th-5th outfield with Peguero or Kieschnick (or even Brown or Perez, depending how fast they come along). Peguero gives you athleticism and good defense, and Kieschnick gives you (potential) left-handed pop.

I’m wondering about the other backup infield spots. Let’s assume they retain Scutaro. So you have Pablo, Crawford, Scutaro, and Belt as your starters and Arias as a capable backup for 2B, 3B, and SS. But they had two backup infielders this year (Theriot & Arias) and always a backup 1B. I’d love to have Theriot back, but would he want a job where he’s only rarely playing?

Does Brett Pill get another shot? Chris Dominguez? Nick Noonan?

brabon99

Lefty

windy and ali had some very interesting tweets last nite, showing how much they had bonded. however, windy also noted that she would feel really sad if angel didnt resign with the giants….in other words, like all baseball wives, she understands the biz end…its not about bonding…its about the bottom line

brabon99

chris is back to 3rd? very interesting

i was sure they wanted him in left as a result of pablo

channelclemente

If there is an emblematic word for this season, it ought to be PATIENCE. We ALL should have learned that this year, if we learned nothing else, right, fellow peanut gallery members.

As to Wotus moving to another club, he may be rather hesitant to jump to another team. IMO, his approach is based on the expectation he has a GM and front office in front of him like that of the Giants. That me be hard to find. Even the best of managers struggle with front office stupidity that sabotages their efforts in spite of what they’re capable of, witness Bochy in San Diego and Melvin in Oakland. God forbid Epstein in Chicago takes a liking to Wotus.

Expat

I wish the players weren’t giving a mic, except maybe for Posey, Lopez, Pagan and Zito. It was like finishing a great meal and eating an after dinner piece of lint.

What was that ridiculous thing Vogelsong did at the end of his speech? He went from class to a** in a flash. Romo is a good natured guy but he behaved like a teenager “that’s what’s up!” The whole thing reminded me of a high school graduation with an open mic and an open bar.

Keep’n It Real

@2holehitting

I’m all for giving Wilson an incentive laden contract, but I’m not sure $1M will cut it. I do agree that the Giants have to see what they have there.

Personally…assuming Wilson is healthy, he is my closer. Romo is a jewel, but he won’t last a full season as a closer. Part of the reason for Wilson’s physical problems are because of how much he was used in the post-season of 2010…added to the 2010 regular season work. Romo benefited from having others close during the 2012 regular season, so he was very fresh in the post-season.

You mentioned Pence and Blanco. Personally, I think the Giants OF will be the #1 challenge for this team in the off-season. Pence and Blanco will be on the team, but who will be the “starting” CF and LF? That’s where Sabean will earn his stripes this off-season. Not worried about Scutaro, he’ll be on the Giants.

brabon99

Expat

were you paying any attention at all to this season or the playoffs? know anything about the makeup of this team?

no one forced you to listen or watch the speeches

this aint your daddy’s giants…these guys are for the new gen..and i saw a ton of kids at the parade

brabon99

how have people forgotten romo’s trick knee and his shoulder issues?

and hembree has been looking good in the afl. his velocity is back up and his stuff has life

pen should be fine, if the giants can find a lefty to replace jeremy….cuz no way will the giants give him more than 2 years

Foothills Ryan

Dear Lefty,

My roster projections are not necessarily a reflection of what I “want”. There is a mixture of speculation, budget balancing and flight of fancy.

I think Conor Gillaspie was a wasted draft as he had no power and no position. However, I’ve included him in my make believe roster so as to have a left handed and a right handed pinch hitter for cheap on the bench.

Chris Dominguez has a lot development to go for him to sniff the big leagues. Adam Duvall as well.

If money was no object, I might float a roster with BJ Upton in center and Cody Ross in left. But that’s not what I want either.

Noonan is good depth and may make Theriot expendable. Kieschnick could be the left handed bat. Bring back Nate Schierholtz ! Wait, Kieschnick probably is Schierholtz.

Anyhow, look for the next roster iteration – including your inputs. I push the next one over 140 million which is the line I had been balancing under.

channelclemente

It’s come up several times about the availability of Japanese players. Bradley Woodrum at Fangraphs has developed some rules of thumb that suggests how their skills would translate into MLB performance.

Well put, channel! Perfect point in theory, but I find myself being impatient no matter how often I do my Zito-like zen mantra as I watch the boys…

I was at the parade with my family, and had the best time ever. The logistics went fine, and we were on the rail midway down the route. omo jumped out and slapped hands with my wife and others, then did a ” dance” with Hector… And we all loved it. Yes, we saw the shirt and loved it! This is a right-leaning family who totally appreciated the nuanced and blatant references across the board… Why do we care at all what the national media will say? First, we complain of lacking coverage, then we complain about them picking against us, now we complain that we will be scorned or ridiculed? SO WHAT! You, know, I do watch Fox. And, as an intelligent adult, I still filter what I see and make a reasoned decision. As do many if not most.

But, the parade… Other than some shameless marketing by both sponsors and some oddball Carnivale based show with a butt-exposed dancer, it was glorious…the history (I was screaming “Rigberto!!!!” For my Tito, and ” JUAN ANTNIO MARICHAL SANCHEZ!!!!” For my MAN!) followed by the entirety of the operation, and then the players. Wow. There were so many personal moments, when Christian and I began our ” Marco Scutaro ” chant, ” MVP” chant for Buster, and on & on… A great day.

Outfield
Pence in right
Pagan in Center
Blanco – Brown (it’s time for him) – Kiechneck (He will be the everyday left fielder)

Rotation
Cain
MadBum
Volgie
Timmy Zito

GIANTS NEED ANOTHER STARTER OR TWO. A lot of innings for their rotation and it is going to catch up with them sooner or later. Go out and sign a veteran or two. To me this is their biggest need. Someone is going to get hurt next year. You can almost sense it.

RELIEVERS
Wilson at a discount
Romo – cannot be closer.
Maybe Timmy? He really blossomed in this role.
Jeremy will be gone cause he is expensive.
Lopez
Kantos
Hembree will be the new closer by years end.
Runzler – do not trust this guy.
Casilla – should be good to go.

I feel the Giants need more starting pitching to be able to repeat. I’m not worried about the outfield and the infield is rock solid.

Nate’sFanMom

I’m late to the blog, but my first reaction: Romo’s teeshirt is really funny.

The toughest guys to re-sign are going to Affeldt and Pagan. Angel’s still young, but at 31 he really can’t wait for a big payday. This is his time.

Same for Affeldt except he’s not that young and this is his last chance for a rich multi-year contract.

Both guys will most likely test the FA market and are smart to do so. Angel especially is really coveted by quite a few teams, and a bidding war is not out of the question.

Should he leave, then Blanco should get the first shot as an everyday player. He’s shown that when he doesn’t swing for the fences, he’s an excellent on-base guy.

channelclemente

Pacman’s guesses are a good point of departure for a discussion. Panil will ride the pine if he’s here. Let’s not forget Arias is a ML 2B, not a SS. Brown, having learned his craft at Fresno, won’t hit ML pitching (like Belt) for 2 years. As to Lincecum, starting him for a look see is an obvious move, but he hasn’t gotten through 2 cycles of LU clean in a year, there aren’t any 3 inning starters. Hembree isn’t going to close anything in MLB until he’s pitched middle relief for a year, unless it’s an emergency, with Bochy. IMO, if he comes out of ST healthy and effective, Wilson will close and Romo will be settup (why, because it’s a much stronger BP that way). With Zito and Lincecum in LU, long relief is going to be a must. Folks, hero worship isn’t going to change reality.

Woj

@Mario said – Love Romo’s “I just look illegal” shirt. They still don’t wanna see us in the media. They wanna pretend we’re not here but WE’RE HERE AND HERE TO STAY BABY!!!

LOL! You sound like the current occupier of the Oval Office inveting big bad strawmen on your own, then knocking them down with idle threats and bigoted shirts. LOL! I’ll just rationalize this as it’s San Francisco, Nancy Pelosi was in the house (why was SHE there anyways) – enough said – common sense goes out the window.

channelclemente

Maybe Romo was going to Mexico to visit his family via Arizona. He is a closer now.

Amen! See my post yesterday. Romo blew it with the race based shirt = not funny. This reminded me of the folks in the 2010′s Parade crowd that disgracefully booed the sitting governor of CA (Arnold) when he came to honor the Giants becasue he was a different party than them. Never inject race AND politics into yesterday b/c plenty are on both sides of that aisle. This event was sanctioned by MLB – and I saw 90+% of the players wearing the Parade clothing. It looked great. Even Timmy and Pagan looked classy. Only Wilson and Romo dressed like different each trying to make an ill advised statement.

Matthew

Woj, so you know, of the entire procession along the route, the ONLY person who was roundly booed was Pelosi.

I think all sides realized her inclusion was ridiculous and misplaced.

But, I would like to say that one of the absolute and true beauties of sports is the melding of persuasions. Sergio may well have thought that the shirt may spur comments and may spur unintended disagreement… But it’s up to us to be mature enough to understand.

Foothills Ryan

I do like pacman’s roster. I like bringing everybody back.

CC,

BJ Upton had 21 bombs in the second half. Same lousy OBP, but he projects as the right handed power the team could use – that we’re not sure if Pence can make contact enough to supply. Put it this way, Upton would be a better run producer and defender than Pence, but would cost more and have a worse attitude and esprit de corps. Sucks getting labeled as a bad attitude player, but it is what it is.

UncleJeff

I found the t-shirt amusing.
Let Romo be Romo!

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Are illegals really coming here with beards like that? Heck, if anyone were to be harassed near the border, it’d be Wilson. Who knows how many Taliban may be hiding in his beard.

Any anger over the shirt cracks me up. Is there no issue? Does the main stream care about that side of the issue? or only when politicians argue about it? If a person can’t raise the issue in a simple manner like Romo did, not preaching when he got on a microphone, without people being upset, I have to question why the issue bothered them.

Oh, people can wear pink to raise breast cancer awareness during a game, but a shirt raising an issue that effects a segment of baseball community and their families during a parade is going too far?

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Romo ruined it, or the racist reactionaries?

Lefty

Foothills: Re Gillaspie/Dominguez–

I just have the sense that Gillaspie’s star has fallen (or sun has set) and Dominguez’s is on the rise. Reasons:

–Dominguez was promoted to Fresno in May and is playing (well) in the AFL
–They’ve had him play several positions (1B, 3B, OF)–seems like they like his bat & want to find a spot for him
–Gillaspie was up in Sept. 2011 and May 2012 but not impressive (especially with the glove) and was NOT called up in Sept. 2012–even though almost the whole 40-man roster was in SF.

Anyway, as Anti would say, YMMV!

channelclemente

Foothills,

power bat is an archaic term driven more by bandbox parks than reality. LD hitters win WS is a lesson I’ve learned. I would recommend Upton to the Dodgers, he’s a fit there. If you’re going to believe Upton has merit due to his stats, then you have to accept Pence’s as well, apples to apples.

Pence: .285/.339/.475/.813, OPS+ 117

BJ Upton: .255/.336/.422/.758, OPS+ 105

I like Pence, and IMO, he’s twice the ‘ballplayer’ that Upton is.

ClutchUp

Poor Ervin Santana…now he gets to pitch for KC and Dayton Moore…

channelclemente

CU,

it’s rumored he loves BBQ and sweet tea.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

And seriously, “Romo ruined it” when the extent of pot smoke was as ridiculous as has been noted? I don’t mind being near someone sparking up (and I’d probably linger ), but you don’t fire up aroud kids. It was a baseball parade, not lollapalooza.

But people are mad about a shirt? There’s priorities . . .

Surf City

Pacman’s roster is a good place to start. What I like about it over other proposed rosters here is that it injects youth into the 25 man roster. Don’t forget, last year at the end of Spring Training we were all thrilled when the Giants made several key decisions that took a gamble on youth – and made a commitment to playing youth. And that paid off handsomely.

That’s why I like Pac’s idea of young farm hands coming up to the roster for the outfield. Agree with Lefty that Nady was more late season insurance. Nothing against the guy but I want to see the same commitment to youth again, with new players that show promise. Gilaspie is not really one of those.

Strong pitching, some journeyman and good vets on offense, and some young players with potential are what got it done in 2012. The same formula should be used for 2013

ClutchUp

Looks like the NoFunLeague wishes they had a bye week rule regarding wearing other organizations gear. Kudos to Harbaugh and Alex Smith, not so much to whover forgot to put gas in the Rolls 8) Also sounds like Pablos car overheated big time. KUDOS to Matthew on his post and eye witness account. Posters individual opinions on the tee shirt being a poor choice should remain supportive of the plight of the guy who wore it. Have we forgotten that Detroit papers said a lot of the G players “looked illegal” ?

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

ESPN rumor central has a blurb on Bourn getting 100 mil, noting his agent in Boras. This screams Pagan is gone. Bourn was .274/.348/.391 with 42 steals at age 32. Pagan is not in that league, but with the bar set that high, and Pagan not that far behind, ouch.

BJ Upton may be more likely than Pagan, and I don’t see Upton happening.

The best bet, at least until ownership leaks an approximate roster spending cap, is that Blanco is the CF to start next season.

Surf City

In my opinion, Pagan is more valuable to a team with strong pitching than a team relying on power offense. He fits into the “good’ category. Another team paying millions for him and expecting him to carry an offense on a team with only adequate pitching will be disappointed, imo.

channelclemente

Surf,

Pagan’s value and problem is that he proved he pretty much performs as a leadoff hitter only.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Surf, Pagan’s defense came a long way, but I don’t think his D is that strong still (I don’t see myself forgetting how lucky he got on the charged ball he gloved on a short hop with his head turned away – that would have been an insider the park HR had it not found his glove).

He will be overpaid by someone, expecting better offense AND defense.

Anti-Lasorda

Pac has a some good points, some of which I have echo’ed.

But, if it’s me, I think you have to bring Affeldt back, even if you have to over pay a little or give him the third year as an option. He is a very important piece down there that will relieve pressure on multiple roles because he can do it all. I do not know if I would Brandon League overpay him, but even if you went to $6.5M per year on a 2 year with an option for a third. I think it would be money well spent.

Wilson should not be counted on to be the closer. Look at what happened to Nathan coming off his Tommy John. He’s not going to be the same guy until the second half next year, if at all. Second Tommy Johns are never a sure thing. The club could decide to go Romo in the first half as a stop gap, similar to the way the club used up Casillia, and tired him out but if you do you loose a huge weapon in the bullpen during the second half and I do not think that is a good move.

I think Bochy, Raghetti, Gardner and the brain trust planned all along to get the job to Romo by the playoffs but all had concerns about him being able to do it for the 150 games and therefore went with the system they did, and did not hand the job to Sergio until they need it most for October. Remember, for about 3 weeks to a month this year Romo was pitching not on one knee brace; but 2. Romo is awesome, but he’s not going to hold up to 162 games in the role and is best used for about 65 innings. You need to count on 80 from a front line guy like Wilson used to be or Rivera.

Wilson, to me, if he comes back is going to be a set-up guy who could become in an be Wheezy in the second 1/2 if your lucky. He could take over for Romo is you are forced to go that route; but I think that would be a mistake to plan that out of the gate. To me Wilson if resigned should be considered for Casillia’s role and should try to be retained for his compensation level as the baseline for an incentive based deal. Casillia’s 25 saves will probably get him a handsome bump up from his $2.3M to somewher close to $3.5 – 4M.

If the clubs brings everyone back, I would think you would see alot of match up still being played with Romo gettting the last out or two a lot, not not exclusively.

I agree with Channel, that Timmy is the ideal solution for the closer even if they’re going to give him 5 to 10 starts in the season to see if he can get through the lineup twice. The best part is if both Tim and the club are honest with themselves of the situation is that he could be a Goose Gossage style closer that could get 6 or even 9 outs if the situation called for it. It’s not worth the $22M he is scheduled to make next year, but solve oodles of problem and give Timmy a second career and a longer one at that. I would even venture to say, if his playoff performace is any indication it could also very easily give him his third Cy Young. Let’s face it, if he was a free agent right now, Lincecum wouldn’t command much more than the $13M that Papelbon is getting after his 2012 performance. I think he is more than capable of setting the bar as a closer if he went that way and could earn himself a $15M a year deal in that role. Especially if he’s a 6 out+ guy; and he would be. If he would agree to that change right now, before spring training, the club doesn’t need Affeldt and could gamble on Runzler. Heck, you don’t need Wilson, might be able to even make a harder decision on Casillia and could save $13M on the books plus get a $13M+ closer. That’s saving money folks, and it would work for all parties.

Zito is Zito. One hell of a #5 starter, and adequate 4th but will be brilliant one outing and a nervous ride the next depending on whether or not he gets the curve ball over for called strikes; and that’s a tricky thing with how much break it has and how difficult it makes calling balls and strikes on the umpire.

Vogelsong will be 36, and about an 180-190 inning guy and by definition makes him the best, most reliable, #3 in the league.

Cain and Bumgarner showed huge signs of fatigue at the end of the year. Bumgarner’s ‘mechanics’ went down hill as he was adding more body turn trying to compensate for a tired arm. Cain was struggling to get finish on his breaking pitches and hung more sliders in the playoffs than I have seen from him since 2008. There are concerns that a short offseason will only magnify.

If the club frees up funding, whether deciding to not resign Pagan for example or by eshewing the rainy day fund, a starter or two would be a good investment. Fresno has nothing but #5 fill ins (this is where it would be nice to have Wheeler down there), and you to have someone to fill in once you potentially move Timmy or one of the Southern Boys finally wears out or Vogey’s back needs a break.

Does that mean chasing Grienke, or Sanchez or Haren (who looks less likely to become available after the Santana trade?) I dunno. I would like to think so. If this club is serious about making the commitment to winning and pitching first they need another starter. Someone to potentially bridge the gap and easy the strain on the staff. I just don’t know if it makes any sort of sense given the contracts we are seeing for Free Agent pitchers. Grienke is asking for $125M, and sure the club could do that and I would like to do that, but what does that do to the 2015 budget and Posey’s NEXT extension starts looking at $20M per? Lefty’s beau Sanchez, already a member of team Venezuela might make the most sense since I don’t think he’s going to get much over $85M, but that’s still an awful lot to spend on what is essentially you’re #4 starter. Trying to maximize value it might make more sense for the clubs to look at Kyle Lohse on a three year perhaps or even Edwin Jackson. There will be options farther down in the bin.

To me thou, as we saw in the post season, it comes down to starting with Timmy in the pen, and for ego an vanity and his potential free agent salary that means he closes. It’s good for him, it good for the club.

~YMMV…

Sam

ClutchUp says:
November 1st, 2012 at 10:10 am
Looks like the NoFunLeague wishes they had a bye week rule regarding wearing other organizations gear. Kudos to Harbaugh and Alex Smith, not so much to whover forgot to put gas in the Rolls Also sounds like Pablos car overheated big time. KUDOS to Matthew on his post and eye witness account. Posters individual opinions on the tee shirt being a poor choice should remain supportive of the plight of the guy who wore it. Have we forgotten that Detroit papers said a lot of the G players “looked illegal” ?

—————
The rule is for 90 minutes after the game players are not permitted to conduct interviews while wearing clothing with visible logos of non-NFL licensed apparel.

Anti-Lasorda

Cow,

Upton wants Crawford money, count him out. He is younger and has more power than both Pagan and Bourn.

Bourn and Pagan are both +4.8 WAR players, they will set the market for each other. If that is going to translate to $100M we need to identify the RH compliment to Blanco for CF.

Pac may get his wish with Keisnick in LF, but Brown will start the year in Fresno.

fergie348

No sense overpaying at either CF or 2B when the long term answers are only another year or so away. Of the two, seems like Scutaro might be the one more amenable to a 2 year deal in the neighborhood of $16MM. That’s essentially Freddie Sanchez money and that’s probably what Scoots is worth on the open market. If we have to start the season with Blanco at leadoff, that won’t kill me.

Foothills Ryan

RE: Chris Dominguez

in 178 PA in AAA, he K’dover 26%, walked about 1 % and had a .626 OPS.

He does have 2 HRs in AFL though and I think the avg was over .300 in a SSS.

His mileage may not go very far. He’s a big strapping lad though.

fergie348

If Blanco struggles early and Brown heats up at Fresno, you can be sure another June call up for the Diamond Bar Flash will be in order..

channelclemente

Me,

I’d go see what KC wants for Alex Gordon, if Pagan rabbits, and move Blanco to CF.

channelclemente

Fergie,

there just isn’t any heat at Fresno, none at all. Numbers there don’t mean anything at all.

Anti-Lasorda

Drayton Moore has lost Sabeans phone number and blocked his calls after the Sanchez for Cabrera swap……

I like Gordon, but I think I have a better chance of being in People’s 50 most beautiful more than Gordon has patrolling AT&T in the home creams.

channelclemente

Just a philosophical aside….with the ‘roids’ out of the game, for the most part, are we headed back to a 1967 era with pitching superdominant.

fergie348

CC, that’s just an absurd statement. Numbers mean something regardless of where they’re achieved. You may have to adjust some for park and league effects, but to say that there’s no correlation to big league numbers is just a stupid comment.

Anti-Lasorda

Jobu tells me Dominguez’s bat is much like Pill’s bat:

no like curve ball, the bats are afraid.

He needs an offering of cigars, and rum…..

channelclemente

Anti,

maybe, put Moore has permanent Romnesia, it seems to me.

fergie348

Pitching and defense – that’s where it’s at, especially in our yard. Speed, defensive ability, ability to get on base, ability to work counts and see good pitches to hit. Yup – we just disqualified Chris Dominguez from our short list.. Bangers need not apply.

Anti-Lasorda

Channel @ 106

Your premise is flawed…. roids are not out of the game, just different ones are being used and the players are being much more careful about being caught; except a certain free agent left fielder.

There is just too much damn money involved and if cycling and the Olympics shows us anything is that athletes will always be looking for the edge. Cabrera maybe the warning case on how careful you must be, but with $60, $80, $100M waiting for these guys in free agency it is a competitve and financial gamble that more and more are willing to take.

~YMMV

channelclemente

fergie,

if you’re the hero of the PCL maybe, but not at the plate in MLB. Just a complete waste of time to plan on the basis of Fresno numbers. If anything, they’re counterproductive. Now maybe the Giants/Sabean has private metrics that are useful, but nothing you and I can get our hands on predicts anything coming out of there better than a coin flip could.

Keep’n It Real

If Pagan is gone…and Bourn and Upton aren’t happening…then it’s Blanco in CF (he needs major coaching to be an every day leadoff)…and you go after Ludwick or Cody. Keisnick is not the answer in LF, if you have to go Pagan-less in CF.

Foothills Ryan

This blog is like cloud-sourcing. There are a lot of good ideas. Let’s say we let the kids play, add a starting pitcher with Lincecum going to pen say goodbye to Pagand & Affledt and bring in a Major Leaguer to anchor the corner opposite Pence’s :

It’s a team that’s all about pitching and defense with ample ability to put up runs. It’s one of the best teams in all of baseball.

channelclemente

Anti,

that’s a cynics POV, the performance of hitters at the plate suggest otherwise. I think the biggest camouflage of how poor hitters are becoming is bandbox parks. Park factors vary from about .5-.6 all the way up to 1.5-1.6. That’s just absurd.

channelclemente

Foothills,

there are several options, but that one would work, IMO. I think that’s a next year LU though, competitive, but not NLCS or WS quality.

Keep’n It Real

People need to lighten up about the t-shirt.

If you’ve listened to any interviews from Romo, you’ll know that he’s a fun loving guy. There is zero doubt in my mind that he thought it was funny…as did I.

Other t-shirts that would have been funny…

Flannery: I am Fabio’s Twin

Sabean: Moneyballoney

Bochy: Grab a Beer

Pagan: I’m Too Sexy for My Shirt

Belt: Geoffrey Rocks!

Buster: I Own a Gun (My Arm)

Pablo: NutriSystems

Pence: I Drink Decaf

Theriot: DAVID Sunflower Seeds

Whiteside: Just for Men

Cain

Theresa

Thanks Alex and Dan for a great season! I read the blog every day, only commented sometimes. It was a great ride this season and am so proud of our 2012 SF Giants World Series Champions! The parade was great, so energetic, and nice to see a club and a city that embraces all players! Can’t wait for Spring Training!

Not completely sold on Roger Kieschnick, but convinced he should get the same kinda shot as does Peguero. Each of them brings something to the equation, Peguero as the well-rounded OFer and Kieschnick the extra pop. Chris Dominguez will be on the trading block at some point. He strikes me as AL all the way, probably to some team like the Royals, or maybe the Astros. He would not bring much by himself, but might be a nice addition to a package deal.

Mr. Sarcastic

The message on Romo’s shirt doesn’t bother me, but I find it ironic that after all of his passionate “We are a TEAM, we’re in this TOGETHER, there are no individuals” interviews, he chose to be the only person (along with Wilson) to not wear the team’s “official” parade t-shirts. Looks like he wants to stand out after all.

That being said… Who cares? They won the World Series!

Anti-Lasorda

Channel,

I don’t thinks it’s a cynics POV, I think it’s reality. You’re assumption is only hitters are taking performance enhancers when the Mitchell Report and Clemmens case clearly shows pitchers are just as involved if not more so. For me, that’s why Barry is getting a bad wrap. Yes, he juiced, but he wasn’t alone, and how many pitchers were juicing when you have evidence pitcher as prominent as Clemmen and as minor as Jason Grilli were using just as much. Most studies tend to suggest relief pitchers benefit most from the use of steroids to aide in recovery time and allow them to come back and pitch on night after night.

It also might explain the recent surges in Tommy John numbers, particular for closers entering their Arb 3, Arb 4 and free agent years.

~YMMV…

Pacman 68

I think the Melky ship has flown but signing him to a discount instead of giving Rowand Money to Pagan is a deal I like.

Giants need another starter. Who do you guys like besides Greinke?

Chupacabra

Jonathan Sanchez is a FA

channelclemente

Anti,

I don’t doubt ‘roids are being used, but nowhere to the degree they were in the ’90s and 00′s. They are also being caught. Just look at League wide batting.hitting stats and you can see somethings changed. One can go full black helo or just believe the data you’re seeing. I’m just not big on conspiracies.

My point was I don’t think you can assume a dip in hitting numbers is caused because players (presumably hitters) have stopped using steroids. I think that is a narrow view.

I could argue, it may mean that pitchers are using more, feeling the need to be better, recover faster and some how try to keep all these Goliaths in these itty-bitty parks.

I do find it interesting though, in 2004 when MLB first starting testing for steriods, the average MLB fastball dropped over 2 mph, and it has been steadily climbing every year since….

Hmmmm….

I don’t think batting statistics tell you anything by themselves with regards to PED use.

You can say I’m a in the Black Helo set, fine, but I just think the perponderance of the evidence from other sports suggests that athletes will cheat to win. The bigger the stakes, the more the athlete is willing to cheat, and the more prevelant it becomes. 2011 was a record year for free agents. You do the math….

And yes, baseball is not alone with that problem, the Olympics are still filled with cheaters, as is cycling, the NBA, the NFL all of them. If you doubt it, go read the breifs on the Armstrong case and know there are hundreds of Dr. Ferrari’s around professional athletes at all levels more than willing to be the guide down the dark road….

It doesn’t make what those athletes any less spectacular, or what they achieve any less remarkable or less enjoyable to watch. Even if they are just the best of the “cheaters”.

Look at the Armstrong case, the Tour de France has no idea on what to do with his 7 titles because everyone on the Podium during his 7 wins was also busted for doping. Since he’s retired 3 of the last 6 winners have been striped of the title for steroids and a 4th leader of the race was DQ’d 3 days before he was to win. The ‘winner’ of that race won the race again 3 years later and was disqualified after the fact for guess what, doping…. this is in a sport that has a known doping epidemic since 1998. A sport that tests much more frequently and to a much higher standard than baseball and where the average salary is less than 3/4ters the MLB minimum.

If you want to live in polyanna, fine. No arguements. I appreciate the game for what happens on the field. I know there are plenty of devils off of it.

South City Jim

I remember Perez throwing some great games for the Braves and the Expos. What a shame. RIP.

Anti-Lasorda

BTW: if you want to take the moral high ground and support and watch sports that are clean, you might have to stay isolated to kids athletics. Thou, with the size of some of these brutes (with whats in the chicken and the milk) you may have an argument there too……

channelclemente

Anti,

calm yourself. My point is just there is no proof baseball players are using widely. As to black helo’s, I was describing my own proclivities, not yours.

no one can keep a wide spread secret like wide spread peds use anymore for obvious reasons.

channelclemente

Anti,

BTW, thanks for calling me a Pollyanna, that’s the nicest thing I’ve had said to me today….so far.

http://nada paul in p.v.

Mr. Sarcastic:
“The message on Romo’s shirt doesn’t bother me, but I find it ironic that after all of his passionate “We are a TEAM, we’re in this TOGETHER, there are no individuals” interviews, he chose to be the only person (along with Wilson) to not wear the team’s “official” parade t-shirts. Looks like he wants to stand out after all.”

I’m more worried about whether Blanco is our starting LF and if Wilson is worth his $9M-ish when we have Romo (and Hembree/Bochy soon-ish). I might get heat for this here, but is Belt our 1B until Posey moves over, Sandoval moves over, Duvall is ready, or Oropesa is ready?

Shed some weight in the system, the likes of Adrianza, Gillaspie, Runzler, arms like Dunning or Fleet or Machi or Correa. Add Belt and/or C. Dominguez and/or Clay Hensley and/or Peguero. See if a package of those can net the #4 draft pick (RHP Ryne Stanek) from MIN and the #5 pick (OF Austin Wilson) from CLE to replenish our system with top prospects. It’s a weak 2013 draft class and top picks will be worth tons more than our low #27.

I like the idea of Pence hitting 6th, he’s strong there, but at 5th might be a bit much for him. Brown would flip the line-up so well in the 8-spot until he learns MLB pitching enough to earn the lead-off. Panik is elite in having more BB than SO in the last 2 yrs of pro ball.

I think a CRUCIAL factor of 2013 will be the AL East games vs. the Giants. If we can go 11-6 in the 17 games we’ll play against the AL, that will be HUGE. A strong bat off the bench will help. Noonan and Kieschnick should be up. No-brainer Arias and Blanco should be kept up too.

which shows 15-20 players at the podium all wearing Giants parade T’s except for Wilson and Romo. I foolishly assumed that there may have been some sort of organized plan behind it. How embarrasing for them that they all showed up to the event wearing the same thing on accident! I retract my comment about Romo trying to stand out, as that obviously was not that case at all.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

I’m not sure what happened

We clinched in four games closing it out in Detroit on Monday night. After the Giants beat Cincy and then SL and were assured of going to the WS … many long time fans and regular Giant Extra Board regulars were effusive in letting their raw emotions of exhilaration and gratitude out of their pores and hearts and souls some saying no matter what This Team was a special Grouping of Great Character (not necessarily characters as in team clowns).

As the victories mounted over Detroit at ATT and then game three in Detroit, some of us were obviously moved and THEN when they clinched the day before Verlander was going to get another start – some of us could not contain ourselves, letting our deepest emotions wash over us.

Many of us came on here and bared our souls in gratitude and some of us were even at a loss for words we were so choked up
(Mavo and MANY others).

THEN came the parade – and – the same players with high moral character were allowed to let their collective hair down and BE those characters that we knew were always locked away inside and they had showed us along the way.

I’m embarrassed.

Many of “us” then REVERTED back to the same version of “us” that we had become in July through September of 2010, most of 2011 and for many months during 2012 – becoming highly critical of individual behavior of some of those during the parade and chiding each other yesterday and here today saying “you” or “you” don’t know what they’re talking about or this player or that player is a jerk or ruined it all. Even some of the comments of what the Giants front office must do has an all too familiar ring to it. All us experts here have a better answer.

For Wisdom Cow, Matthew, Paul in PV (and many others) who supported the obvious = Thank You all. For others who again are already out of their gourd concerning individual player parade behavior and choice of tee shirts — AND — are already semi-demanding-predicting as to who the FO must keep —- I think it’s best to relax and enjoy what just happened.

Don’t get me wrong, some of the 2013 roster rhetoric is healthy but there are also others who have reverted back to knowing more than Sabean Evans Siegle and Bochy as to who to sign and who to let wander. Me personally – there is NO room for two more starting pitchers. The same 5 will go to ST as the front runners. When Jeff Suppan decided NOT to go to Fresno in 2011 but Vogey did – the Vogelsong Legend was born when Zito sprained his foot. The biggest difference in the rotation from 2010 to 2012 was Vogey for Sanchie. Regarding the OF – it will all work out, but NO young infielder or outfielder is going to HIT major league pitching any differently than Belt and Crawford did.

And I donated a pint of blood to the local vampires in the blood mobile. So feeling rough and raw today. Who want’s some of this ?

2holehitting

I like Pagan and would not mind them pursuing them. However his year was not career but rather to his card.

So what do you pay for a 31 year old CF that hists 288+/- with a 338 OBP? Do you go 5 years and have him be 36/7 in his final year? If so do you go 15Mill a year?

If you compare him to other CF that had 250+ at bats this year he is around 14th in average and around 10th for OBP.

He has speed but he has trouble going back on balls and circles some of those liners that Blanco grabbed. His chest high snatch grab really makes me cringe.

So does some team cough up $75M for 5 years or is he closer to $50M for 4 to 5?

Foothills Ryan

Clutch,

as I said, I’m kind of excited for the next shoe to drop. Can’t help it.

Whatever direction the front office takes, I…

trust the process

100%.

8)

Foothills Ryan

2 hole,

closer to 3/36 or 4/40. But someone will probably pay up to 5/60.

It’s a crazy world out there. Best to acquire and develop prospects.

pacman68

ClutchUp

Giants need another starter next year for these reasons.

– What if Timmy doesn’t recover?
– What if Cain and Madbum hit a wall? Which they did this year.
– Someone is going to get hurt. This pitching staff is living on borrowed time.

The Parade is over. Back to work and let’s win another World Series. And I for one can’t wait to moan about Bochy all next year in hopes he shoves the pie right back in my face.

As for what shirt someone wears. I wish Sabean wore a ” I’m With Stupid Shirt” when he is sitting next to Bochy. I kid!!! I kid!!!!

I LOVE YOU ALL NOW LET’S TALK ABOUT NEXT YEAR.

Mario2

Foothill, the trade Belt stuff is just stupid. Belt is not only a good firstbaseman with lots of potential, if you read Lefty’s post only a couple of the top 10 free agents at that position even batterd better than him. He’s very affordable and he would have to be terrible for a team to trade him away. He’s not terrible and if he were, then you could not receive anything decent in trade.

The Giants are not going to trade Belt for Draft Pics. Just put that out of your mind once and for all. Spend your time on something else that’s less complicated.

======

Watson/Foothills (or whatever you name of the day is) and other posters complaining that Romo was the only one out of uniform and who was the only one you were complaing about – time to look your prejudice in the mirror.

That none of you complained about Wilson’s attire is quite telling.

PBryan

Great parade, great energy.

Loved Romo’s shirt.

Have hated all along the “Duck Fetroit” and “Tuck the Figers” signs, showing up all over the national media and still conspicuous yesterday at the parade. Completely classless, and hopefully not representing most of SF. Clever and funny…in the early 1970s or so. In 2012, embarassing.

Foothills Ryan

Mario/Marissa,

Whatever your troll name is, take a hike.

Foothills Ryan

“– What if Timmy doesn’t recover?
– What if Cain and Madbum hit a wall? Which they did this year.
– Someone is going to get hurt. This pitching staff is living on borrowed time. ”

Pacman gets it. Let’s see if Sabes & Co are on the same page.

The next pitchers in line; Heston, Kickham and Surkamp have seasoning/recovering to do. Need insurance.

I advocate for Dallas Braden and/or Scott Feldman for low cost moves.

The Oracle

They’re not going to trade Belt – period.

channelclemente

Viva Greinke! Heh, I’m not entirely rational about Greinke, what can I say.

ClutchUp

Regular Season Innings Pitched + Final Totals

Cain season: 219 + Cin5/Cin5+ / SL6+ SL5+ /WS 7 = 249.1

Bum season: 208 + Cin4+ SL3+ / WS 7 = 214.1

Vog season: 189 + Cin5 /SL 7/SL 7/ WS 5+ = 214+1

Tim season: 186 + Cin2/Cin4+ /SL2/SL4+ /WS2+ WS2+=203.2

Zito season: 184 + Cin2+ /SL7.2/ WS 5.2=200.1

choyboy0724

The San Francisco Giants are World Champions!. Who cares about next season. They’ll make the right moves because they always do.

CB the DodgerH8ter

>Giants need another starter. Who do you guys like besides Greinke?

I wouldn’t mind seeing a 6th starter type coming from the farm. Crick, Blackburn, Heston, Stratton. I think we might see at least some of these names next season in that role. Another guy I like is that Japanese player from the Mariners last year, Iwakuma. Someone that will make 1-2 million a year and can fill the long relief spot start role.

vamos_SFG!

Between Heston, Fitzgerald, or Gloor, I think you could fill 6-10 starts without much trouble.

You don’t carry 6 top-line starters “just in case”. If a starter went out for the season, you might look for a trade. A very strong mid-rotation arm like Edwin Jackson or Shaun Marcum would be examples I’d think of.

channelclemente

Bochy’s simple formula. Pitching and defense, in a game where bat are unreliable (come and go).

Way I see it, they need three OFs, two IFs (2B and utility), and three relief pitchers. And one starter for insurance would be highly reocmmended.

ClutchUp

Lower case pacman68 + Pacman 68 + MrsPacman74

They NEED another starter for protection but it will come from within the ranks or a Very Veteran Pitcher like they found with original Giant Vogey …. someone like the former ST invite Suppan. That COULD come in the form of a FA with many many miles on him or (doubtful) it could come from the rookie cookie jar or Boof Bonser or Brian Burress.

I go to a lot of SJ Giants games and in 2010 this guy hit a ball that cleared the center field wall by 20 feet. Without a doubt the farthest ball I have ever personally seen hit here and talking with long time season ticket holders, furthest they ever seen anyone hit the ball.

Matthew

CU, You ex-catchers are quite the hot ticket! With Redmond taking over the Marlins, what is the current count now??

So hey, Aubrey Huff, it was a GREAT run! Good luck to you in everything you do in the future! Take good care of the money and make it last, and enjoy yourself!

He wasn’t perfect, but he was right in the middle of things as the Giants broke through and got championship #1.

The Oracle

Casilla is not as expendable as some might think. He’s an integral late inning guy and part of the Giants strong setup to the closer.

–

Skweez – don’t have many complaints about Huff. My gripe, is any, is that Bochy was way too slow to recognize how much his skills had deteriorated.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio

Viva Woj !

http://nada paul in p.v.

Gawd Snorkel is such an egomaniac for a cat – is that redundant? He keeps prodding me to remind everyone that, at the start of Game 1, he predicted the Giants would win the W/S if Zeets got out of the 1st inning unscathed. I have to remind him that he did NOT predict the sweep.

I am still delirious with joy. )

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

This has replaced all the Brady Anderson Posters in one neighborhood in SF’s Eureka Valley in San Francisco, California.

Ditto, Skweez – I was a huge Huff fan, and felt terrible seeing him up there so sad.

Lefty

Godspeed, Aubrey Huff. Enjoy your beautiful family and your two World Series rings, and see you at the reunions! I for one will cheer like mad for you. Thanks for one of the coolest, happiest memories of my whole life: The very first Giants’ world championship in my lifetime. I can still tear up thinking how happy I was that day, and I’m not ashamed to say so.

primetimedonna

Paul

Think Huff’s demeanor was probably more introspective and bittersweet…tough to see a career you care about end. Sure he would have liked to have done something to contribute more in the playoffs/series. Far cry from 2010 contributions. But, all in all, 13 years in the majors with some decent numbers and 2 WS Rings not a bad thing. Heard when interviewed yesterday on one of the stations he was gracious and said he was happy for Zito and Vogelsong.

Good news, Baubi and he appear to have mended fences and she and the kids have been at park and were in the parade with him. As Skweez said, wish him (and them) the best on this next phase of their lives.

I don’t want to get too long winded and be told by Clutch I’m talking about the wrong stuff…. heaven forbid.

Lefty

Chris Dominguez: I merely brought him up as a comparison to Conor Gillaspie. I’m not convinced that either is major league ready (or ever will be), but I do think the signs suggest the Giants think more of Dominguez than they do of Gillaspie right now.

Starting pitchers: I’ve said this before, but the Giants were seriously lucky that one of their five didn’t go down the whole season. They had no one at all for insurance. They got lucky again that the starters somehow found a second wind just in time in the playoffs because they sure looked gassed in September and the first half of the postseason.

For next year, I think they need to plan ahead and have the starters pitch fewer innings during the regular season. That means either having a swing man who can do long relief and spot start and/or a very deep bullpen that can take you from the 7th or even the 6th inning on most days so that the starters don’t have to go so long every time.

Foothills Ryan

Aubrey Huff signed for 3 million dollars in 2010 !

Talk about lightning in a bottle. It really doesn’t get any better than that. Thanks for 2010. Good luck with your family.

Huff should also be commended for getting back in the dugout and being a teammate.

Foothills Ryan

Scott Feldman : swing man candidate.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

No worries Anti, the Cleveland Bus Driver item was covered by by Bochy’s Thunderskull yesterday

I’m not the one concerned with talking about anything wrong – I was just concerned about those here who had relished the two feats of the DS and CS + the World Series who had decided to criticize tee shirt choices and other players who were not dressed alike. The 2013 stuff is cool … I guess, I do know you are really good at the budget and teaching little Anti that nasty off speed stuff since the natural velo dna is already there! 8)

dgg

First I read the SI article on the Giants declining option on Huff, which of course was expected. Then I read Baggs blog. What the heck? I’m not going to even repeat his first sentence. It was unkind and unnecessary.
(and that’s the kindest thing I can say about that first sentence.)

My wish was for Huff to have at least one spectacular hit as DH in 2012 postseason. But it was not to be. Huff was a generous and supportive teammate in 2012. Best wishes to Huff and his family for wherever they go and whatever’s next.

Lefty

Check out this Tweet just from Jeremy Affeldt:

“Those who think security is always in Terms of money are Pretty shallow to think that. Stability is also security.”

Discuss!

Lefty

dgg: Ugh, you’re right about that first sentence. Not really a moment to be flip or funny, in my opinion.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

Discuss something that originated from Twitter? Nah….. (j/k)

How about Baggs getting in one last low blow regarding Huff?

Andrew Baggarly Nothing official, but Giants will decline $10 million option on Aubrey Huff and choose $2 mil buyout. They didn’t get THAT drunk last night.

Baggs little cute remark that guys from Stanford (Flemming) can’t dance was funny and surely made many remember Tiger trying to dance when he was at Stanford (Stanfurd)

With Tweets or Texts isn’t it difficult without Voice Inflection and eye contact to get to the very root of some peoples intentions?

Hasn’t everyone said at one point in time “How many millions is enough” and yet there is always a disconnect between the fan and the player regarding how much money athletes and entertainers make.

Discuss 8)

dgg

Lefty,

It really troubled me. Huff deserves more respect than that.

These are my thoughts about Jeremy’s very interesting tweet:
(thanks for finding and posting it)

I think what matters more than money to Affeldt is a multi-year contract. He said yesterday that he doesn’t want to be “bouncing around” with his family. Kids need stablity and not to be changing schools every year. Jeremy doesn’t seem to be a “Show-me-the-money” kind of guy.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

I agree with dgg and Lefty. This was deplorable. He and Aubrey obviously had a private conversation about the thong staying in house in 2010 and then when AB possibly approached AH about doing the anxiety article Aubrey must have smirked and said Henry was writing it. Vendetta’s are so easy to detect.

Question, didn’t Jackson mis-play a ball in game three that was going to score a Giant from third base but it allowed Crawford to go to 2base?

Pagan dives and catches that same ball in my estimation?

Bapah

CU, no kidding, Snot Rocket has a twin.

Foothills Ryan

NFM,

RE: Peguero

How do 20 game hit streaks strike your fancy?

Anti-Lasorda

Jemery wants year three guarenteed. It’s not the $7.1M per he’s after.

3 for $18-20M and it’s done. No options.

I think Pagan is 4 for $48M to 5 for $60M territory myself.

Foothills Ryan

Also NFM,

it sounds like you are pronouncing it Angel Pa-gone.

Not sure if that’s the consensus, but that’s my feeling too.

South City Jim

Huff has nothing to be ashamed of. Great contribtions in 2010 and a great teammate in both 2010 through 2012, despite difficult year both professionally and personally in 2012. Case in point, Giants don’t win the series this year without Zito’s contributions during the regular season and in the postseason. I’ll never forget the comment Huff made after that game 4 shut out win in Colorado when he said he’d never been happier squeezing a final out than when he squeezed the final out of Zito’s shutout and went on to talk about the haters. Took a lot of grief on this site for those comments. No telling how much those comments meant to Zito, but I’m sure they meant alot. And I’m sure there were other less publicized words of encouragement through out the year to other teammates, including Brandon Belt. In the words of Kruk and Kuip, Huff will always be remembered as a “good Giant”.

and if pagan leaves because some team offers him rowand contract and money (and there is little to no way the giants are getting stuck in another one of those contracts) no one will blame him

i heard jenkins discuss with gary about why players should prefer to be in a positive environment with less money than a negative one with more. please. when one has a limited window in which to earn millions….you take it…even if it means spending 7 months with a bobby valentine

i am personally bothered by fans attacking players for making money. its a biz. they have a skill most dont have. they are being paid for their skills and their ability to put butts into seats.

you have to admit…the current giants org is very entertaining

Matthew

Oh my goodness, Moskowitz’s is getting weirder by the day… What a new ‘do!

Can’t wait to watch the replay of the parade tonight, but please tell me that I don’t get stuck with Rob Schneider in studio?

Matthew

I am with all of you on the Huff love… He was integral in bringing the first ever championship to this city.

Whereas Renteria paid for his contract at the last minute, Huff had to wait to be rewarded after the fact… And I have no issue with that. Sure, he was overpaid. But one of us know the details of the man’s life other than public comments that should have been private, and reports that may have been prejudiced by personal opinion.

My best Huff memory, besides the impressive inside-the-park HR to introduce himself to us, was his HR in Texas as a DH .. One that he somewhat predicted. His presence, his goofball version of leadership, his drive to win it in 2010, will never be forgotten.

ClutchUp

Where was Mychal Urban during the WS?

South City Jim

Now that the season’s over, we will find out what the deal was with Buster not catching Timmy?

Lefty

South City Jim: Yeah, where’s the day after press conference where Bochy & Sabean call out one of the players in public?

2010: Panda: lose weight or go to Fresno
2011: Huff: pull it together before next season

I figured this year’s would be about Timmy. It might have been Panda again, but it’s hard to give someone a spanking when he just won World Series MVP four days ago!

South City Jim

Lefty, yeah, that’s what I was thinking. If not publicly, you can bet they’ll be developing an off-season conditioning program for Timmy.

Matthew

Lefty, tough to do that to Timmy as well… All reports indicate he embraced the post season role, and he certainly succeeded at it. Plus, he seemed to work hard this year.

I still say Pablo, and it can be much kindler and gentler… But he’s still… Ummm…..full figured

ClutchUp

Help me understand. If 28 had caught either 55 or 75 instead off Cain Bum or Vogey, wouldn’t there have then been many of us asking what’s going on with Buster not catching a Cain a Bum or a Vogey. Just saying…. the conspiracy word was a tad strong, no?

ClutchUp

Matthew: Jenner and Mosko=same choice of surgeon…..

South City Jim

Despite his girth, Pablo might be the best bad ball hitter in MLB history. I don’t think Verlander ever recovered mentally in game 1 after Pablo tamahawked that high 94 mph FB over the centerfield fence. MAYBE Hamilton could have done that…emphasis on MAYBE.

South City Jim

Hank Schulman was on with Radnich the morning Zito pitched the game 5 gem against the Cards and said what I’ve been saying all along. There was never an issue with Zito and Buster. Zito pitched to Hector because it made sense to give Buster a “day off” from catching each rotation and since Zito and Hector had a good thing going the previous year in Zito’s rehab starts it made perfect sense to have Hector catch him. The Lincecum thing was completely different, as Schuman put it, “apples and oranges”. No big deal on Lincecum/Posey, sorry I brought it up.

Matthew

Oh, Pablo…. Mijo… What are we to do with this man child?

His hot streak was so extremely important to this World Series Championship… And SCJ is right on, as Verlander never recovered. Not only that, it set the tone for the entire series, and the TIGERS never recovered.

And he (Pablo) still scares the hell out of me. I have two kids. Both are wonderful, and loving, and caring. Yet one is, shall we say, a bit more adventurous, and is so charming and fun that this specific child tends to get away with more. This child also tends to make you root for them. They have such a big heart, and love life, and make you laugh, and enjoy life more.

And then… Some dumb decision makes you go “Come ON!!!! THINK!!!!!!!”

Mijo. Oy. Pablo…….

Lefty

I wasn’t being serious. I don’t agree with press conferences where players get called out like that. If it’s a problem, you deal with it privately.

I loved how BOTH Pablo and Timmy came up huge in the playoffs after rough seasons. So many “redemption” stories on this team…Vogey…Buster’s comeback…ZITO.

Clutch: I don’t think there was a “conspiracy” regarding Zito/Timmy/Buster. Obviously Buster caught both of Zito’s great starts in the postseason (Hector caught the bad one.) And Buster caught all but one of Timmy’s great relief outings. So whatever “it” was, it was put aside when the time came to do so.

I still think there is something there–at least as to Timmy and Buster. We may never know. And it doesn’t much matter now, does it? But I bet when Timmy takes his first 2013 start, Buster will be behind the plate. Book it.

You know what else you can book? Sergio Romo, unless he’s injured, is finally going to be an All-Star next year. And it’s a least a year overdue, in my opinion. Maybe two.

woj

That’s it wisdom cow. Romo plays the race card with his imbecile not funny shirt. Then he gets the reactions and you call racism on the reactionaries. Harry edwards. taught you well at the Berkeley school of propaganda. Your beloved bears deserve 3 more years of tedfraud led bad football.

Matthew

Lefty, missed your joke because it’s too close to reality!

ClutchUp

There was a ton of chatter boardering on what’s going on during the reg season with Buster/SANCHEZ and TL and BZ. To me two of the famous 5 where gonna be caught by Hector. Had Bum Cain or Vogey had a couple of poor to bad starts w/Hector behind the dish….this board would have been hoppin’ 8)

i honestly believe that the strength shown by this little girl had an effect on romo and a few of the other players and helped them during their run for the title….she is one of us

please pray for her

13 year old kids should not be dying of cancer

Bapah

I just wrote a long response to Woj’s idiocy, but I decided to erase it and just skip over his comments like I do with most right wing, racist insanity I come across. Some folks will never get it and have no sense of irony or humor. As long as I skip Fux TV News, I can live with its presence. Just stay out of my face with stupidity and close-mindedness, which Woj’s comments seem to be wrapped with, and if I can skip them, I can live with their presence too.

brabon99

romo’s shirt designed and marketed by a socal company owned by an asian american who said this shirt meant nothing…just meant to be funny

art is about perception…and those that wish to perceive it as anything but a joke…may

that includes immigration activists and wingnut white supremacists, who think little mexican boys who had to work summers in the fields should keep their mouths shut

now please play for ariel

thank you

ClutchUp

Ariels plight is well documented here. Our HS teams visited Ronald McDonald House at Stanford and that trip made a devasting impact on our coaches and players. Very sad for any child to suffer like that.

Lefty

Brabon99: Thanks for the reminder to pray for Ariel and her family. Done.

Just for fun am re-watching Game 1 of the World Series. On the pregame show right now. Fox/MLB guys are all gush, gush, gush about Verlander–”he’s a presence,” blah, blah, blah.

They were talking about how Scutaro said winning the pennant was “a dream.” Then they said it was going to turn into “a nightmare” because of his 5-for-25 history against Verlander.

Now they’re all gush, gush, gush about Cabrera–gotta be the MVP, “most feared hitter in the game,” blah, blah, blah.

Oooooh. Now they’re on Prince Fielder. Did the Giants even play in this game?!

Hahahahahaha. It’s even MORE fun watching this knowing how it turns out.

They never scared me. I just pretended it was 2010 and pretended Verlander was Cliff Lee and Cabrera was Guerrero and Prince was Josh Hamilton.

SurfCity

Regarding Huff: I think much of the anger that some have felt for Huff in the past was misdirected. (most but not all).

As far as the big contract, I don’t hold it against him. Just like I’ve never held Zito’s big contract against him. Anger over those contracts, if placed anywhere, should be at the team management people who inked those contracts. The Zito contract was a mistake the day it was signed. It took longer to realize that for Huff’s contract. But again, I do not hold that against him or anyone who cashes in while they can.

Huff was phenomenal in 2010 – he just had a great year. In 2011, many have speculated and Huff has confirmed that he came into the season not in the best of shape. That is the one thing I held Huff responsible for – he should have reported in shape. But by now, I’m over that.

By 2012, being in shape was no longer an issues. It was just an unfortunate fact that by that point, Huff’s skills had already diminished. I don’t fault him for that either. I fault Bochy for not recognizing it sooner in 2012. Loyalty to vets is one of Bochy’s great qualities and we’ve heard players speak well of that quality of his. Once in awhile it ends up coming back to bite him, as it did in the case of Huff in 2012.

Now that Huff is leaving the Giants, it’s important to reflect on the totality of what he gave to the Giants, whether it was with his bat and with his play in 2010, or with his charisma and general likability and his encouraging of other players in the last 2 years.

I also wanted Huff to have one more big moment for the Giants in 2012, but it didn’t quite happen. I’ll be rooting for Aubrey to make the roster of another team, if that’s what he wants. Otherwise I will wish him well in retirement.

So long Aubrey!

brabon99

know what’s interesting? nobody has made a single road to the ws vid yet

lurie is delusional. thinks a 3 year 27 will get it done for pagan

brabon99

im sure huff is gonna retire

facts are facts. he was battling his disorder for a long time and thanks to the baseball culture, was able to hide it by pretending he drank to deal with his awful employment situations.

he made enough in the past 2 seasons, that if he has the right investment adviser, he should live comfortably. maybe get into a small biz.

no reason to get back into the grind

Lefty

Agreed. Angel is 31. He’s going to want a minimum of four years plus an option and maybe someone will give him five.

Aargh. I loved a lot of things about what Angel did this year. I love his energy and enthusiasm and intensity. I love how he and his wife embraced SF and its fans.

Do I love it enough for 4-5 years? He had a good solid year. Not an All-Star year. Definitely valuable. Not perfect. There was the slow start and the very long cold streak in June/July–and it was really long and really cold. There was the defense, especially earlier in the season, that made some of us long for Torres (or Blanco) in CF.

Could Blanco, with some patience and work, be as good as Pagan? He has the defensive skills–better ones. He’s just as fast and a better base runner. Overall, he may have better leadoff skills. He doesn’t have the same pop as Angel to rake doubles and triples, but we did see some from him in the postseason. What if Blanco could be a pretty close replacement–but for $8-10 mil. less?

And what about Gary Brown? In 2014 or 2015, might he be as good as or better than Pagan as leadoff/CF?

Next year, 2013, Angel’s the best choice, hands-down. 4-5 years from now? I just don’t know.

Oh, and as for Bourn–he was a lesser version of Pagan this year. He’s a better base stealer and two years younger.

vamos_SFG!

I just read the Giants are INTERESTED in Bourn.

I’m thinking IF Bourn maybe played CF and Gary Brown were roaming RF (with his stronger arm).
Think: Pence in LF, or Shin-Soo Choo, or Jeff Francoeur, or Ryan Ludwick?

Maybe the Giants offer something like $14.5M per 6 yrs ($87M).
Explain to him & his agent, that a 6-yr contract is optimal so he can go into his new contract as a 36 year old to double up on big contracts, rather than as an aging 37 or 38 year old. And a chance to win some serious SF WS bling too.

If we trade B-Weezy this could fit (just barely) under $130M team salary for 2013, I think. Yes, with Affeldt and Lincecum staying here.

Toss in a $3M signing bonus and you’ve got a $90M contract and a chance for him to have a second payday thereafter. Maybe?

Anyone here like the idea?

brabon99

i think bourn goes back to the atl

the giants will not tie themselves down to a contract longer than 3…even with a guy like pagan who brings it everyday

same with pence

both are the anti rowand and pagan is torres with more of an attitude and no adhd…but the powers that be have seen what long terms do to a teams ability to sign other fa’s and increase payroll for home grown

im sure that all contracts will have a max at 3 plus an option…

im also sure that as much as they would like to extend pence, they have to be a bit worried about how out of sorts he got during the second half…wasnt the same pence we saw with houston or philly

so its possible they go with arbitration, unless they are worried that will affect negotiations for 2014

hope sabes and evans got a bit of sleep…cuz they wont be getting much over the next few months

and does anyone know what the winter ball situation is? i know pablo insisted he is still gonna play for venezuela and the org wanted hector to go to work on his swing…but i cant see this happening with the extra month of work

Sam

Huff has plenty to be ashamed of. He got paid and essentially quit. Came back in 2011 out of shape and unmotivated. Lets be honest, the best thing to happen to Belt was Huff coming down with anxiety and injuring his knee twice this year.

Lefty

Zito hitting against Verlander, 4th inning, Game 1. Joe Buck:

“This may be the biggest mismatch you’ll see in this entire World Series.”

Zito hits RBI single to left.

Hahahahahaha.

I had Fox muted for nearly the whole Series in favor of KNBR. This is extremely entertaining.

McCarver just said his “Barry Manilow” line, too.

Good times.

Sam

B-Weezy is not going to be traded. If somebody trades for him, they would have to go to arbitration where he would be guaranteed around 6 mil. If somebody wants him, they wait for the giants to non tender him and sign him as a FA.

Lefty

I read yesterday that Pablo plans to play 15 games of winter ball in December and will return to AZ in early January to resume his workout regimen. Also hopes to play for Venezuela in the World Baseball Classic in March.

I’m gonna be sick to death of this stuff by January, but man, I forgot how much I loved the scuttlebutt, rumors, slanders, lies, hyperbole and general silliness of the hot stove season. And it hasn’t truly begun until you start hearing things about Scott Boras clients, be it stuff from Boras himself or from people who are speculating about what his clients are demanding.

Up next: Michael Bourn, who CSN Philly’s Jim Salisbury has heard is seeking a contract of around $100 million.

Before you say anything, let’s remember something about how offseasons work. (1) people sign big contracts; (2) everyone mocks the contracts as silly and crazy and oh my god they’re going to bust the team; and (3) within a couple of years most of them don’t look too terribly bad and even the real clunkers end up being more annoying than team-killing. Hell, even Barry Zito got some redemption this year. Add into that the fact that so many teams have so much more money now due to the big TV deals dropping and you’ll quickly realize that we’re entering a different world.

With that large caveat aside, if Bourn does get $100 million, we certainly are entering a much different financial world than the one we currently know. He’s a good player. Great on defense, can steal some bases and is in the lineup every day. But he sported a 274/.348/.391 batting line in his walk year and that’s better than his career line. He’s a 90 OPS+ guy. Dave Roberts without the legendary playoff steal.

Which is really nice, actually. But that skill set has not previously garnered anyone $100 million, and it’s hard to see how it might now, even in this brave new world.

Bill from Santa Rosa

Alex – “Band of MisFits II”…???

brabon99

ricky o, hembree and brown all chosen as rising stars in afl

thats huge

love the direction the org is taking

dont care about dynasty bs…want continuity….i want those kids at the parade yesterday, to have a team they can watch win for the next 20 years

ClutchUp

Bourne has an arm like Juan Pierre, Johnny Damon or Nijer (I just got released) Morgan. NO to Bourne. Also Pagan with his length off stride is just as fast from home to 3rd or from 1st to home as Blanco.

Lefty

Pagan can fly, no doubt. Blanco is a better base stealer, percentage-wise, but Angel’s just as fast. In fact, I think he makes up for bad jumps on balls in the outfield with his speed sometimes.

I’d like to have Angel and Blanco both. But if Angel prices himself out of reasonable range…is he really worth $8-10 mil. more than Blanco? Is he? You could buy another bat…or another pitcher.

WWBD? What Would Billy Do? Beane, I mean. (Ducking as you all throw tomatoes at me.)

ClutchUp

Renel while showing off her 2010 ring at intros yesterday…thanked and acknowledged Comcast while never a mention of KNBR. Lee Hammer who drove Pablos car and had it over heat driving at 1 mph, apparently none to happy. Doesn’t Renel use a script?

brabon99

Sam

i think you are a bit low on the wilson arbitration number

ClutchUp

Beanster is bringing everyone back but Gomes. Coco had his issues but should remain. Steven Drew? Did he test the waters? Billy and Sabes are polar opps as GM’s. Speaking of GM’s where did Kenny Williams go? New title?

http://nada paul in p.v.

Lefty – gracias for the Game 1 faux blah-blah – revenge is sweet. As for our F/As – there is not one who should expect more than 3 years – if somebody else coughs up Rowand $$ – well, good luck hombres.

Sam

Brabon: I estimated around 6. Looking it up he made 8.5 mil in 2012. For arbitration the minimum a team can offer is 80 percent of the previous years salary, so the least he gets in arbitration is 6.8 mil.

Obrother

Romo’s T-shirt. No big deal as far as I’m concerned. Was it politically statement he was trying to make about racism. Maybe, maybe not. I like Romo and he did grow up 30 miles from the Mexican border. Did he ever get profiled? I don’t know. My point is that none of us have lived in his shoes and if he felt the need to wear the shirt it doesn’t bother me or think any less or more of Romo. I realize that’s there’s a lot of s*ht going on in this country that I think s more important than Romo’s T-Shirt. I’m more focused on the fact the Giants won the WS and the escape it affords from the economy, 2 wars, crime, etc.

ClutchUp

God Bless those affected by storm Sandy. Lots of deaths in Staten Island….

vamos_SFG!

The more I think about our leadoff/CF situation, the more I’d lean towards Pagan.
He won’t cost a draft pick. 3-4 years likely could sign Pagan, Bourn would likely require 6-7 years. I have always thought Upton is way over-hyped and now someone will over pay for him.

Oh yeah, Bourn or Upton the Giants are bidding against the world. Pagan we have exclusivity for 16 more hours.

Maybe Pagan signs a $9M per guaranteed with a max ceiling of somewhere near $15M per w/ incentives?

I keep thinking of Bumgarner’s contract, and how smart that 2-way contract looks.
Bum does good pre-arb. His Super-Two is gonna escalate his contract already. It also ‘reads’ (to me) as a statement of his confidence and work ethic. Like “I don’t need max guaranteed money so I can be lazy or fail.” It’s like he’s saying “I’ll make more this way- and heck, I’ll earn it.” And yes, with his outstanding performance continuing, the Giants will be HAPPY to pay up.

Kinda like Timmy. He’s probably done even better for himself- financially- by not signing a long deal two or three years ago. And I think he’s seen Zito from a very close vantage point and wants no part of that feeling either.

If we can’t sign Pagan, I say make the qualifying offer. Just have some BIG dudes in the room when you explain this to him. If you ACCEPT our $13.3M we will trade you to Cleveland, even if we have to pay your salary for them to take you. We’ll take the draft pick, we understand each other?

Sam

Interesting story out today that Rick Ankiel may give pitching another try since there isn’t any demand as an OF. That would be the ultimate Disney movie if he was able to do it.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Romo should have just worn a Scause.

dgg

The only place I could find (so far) predicting Bourn will end up with the Giants is in a blog by a Red Sox fan named Evan Brunell. Are there other sources for this story?

Sam

vamos_SFG! says:
November 1st, 2012 at 10:11 pm
If we can’t sign Pagan, I say make the qualifying offer. Just have some BIG dudes in the room when you explain this to him. If you ACCEPT our $13.3M we will trade you to Cleveland, even if we have to pay your salary for them to take you. We’ll take the draft pick, we understand each other?
—————–
This might be the dumbest thing I have heard on this blog. So if Pagan takes the offer, you pay Cleveland 13.3 mil to take him. How does this make any sense whatsoever for SF. If you trade him you get no draft picks. Also, by putting the qualifying offer on him, a team forfeits a draft pick in order to sign Pagan, theoretically making it difficult to get more teams involved in a bidding process. How does any of this benefit Pagan?

Foothills Ryan

Koyaanisaqatsi, Day After Tomorrow, Zombie Apocalypse…

Thank God there’s baseball and the San Francisco Giants. I feel bad for the human condition and I feel glad for the human experience. Baseball just happens to mankind’s greatest achievement.

What will the Giants do??????

I would hope they make Pa-gone a qualifying offer, with the anticipation that he will go elsewhere. Give him a take it or leave it, 1 yr. 13.3 million dollar deal.

Since they aren’t likely to recross or rebuild Melky’s bridge, Sabean should go after another buy low OF, Shane Victorino.

Offer a Rowand contract to BJ Upton, who stands a very good chance of being a lot better than Rowand, better than Pagan and better than Pence over the next 5. Tough decision.

Scott Hairston or Cody Ross in left. Maybe Ichiro as a late add. There’s options out there. Why wouldn’t free agents want to play for a champion in the City by the Bay?

brabon99

re sandy…i think bloomberg is screwing the pooch by having the marathon run on sunday…if i was the prez, i would be on the phone with him now, urging a postponement

they are still pulling bodies out…thousands without heat or power…all er need to be used for the aftermath

what i know about romo is that he spent summers with his family going up the coast doing farm work….thats why idiot mccrappy said he was raised in salinas….here is someone who hasnt forgotten his roots…therefore, he gets a pass for almost anything….he cried when he signed his first real contract…want a disney movie…he is it

fact is, 3/4 of this team could be turned into a movie…its like baer was in control of drafting and development…every player has a story

thats how the giants have sold it

bourn isnt coming here

nor is timmy gonna be traded this offseason….that opp died when they traded wheeler

nor is the team gonna strong arm anyone to sign

if they offer pagan 3 27…he is gonna test the waters…would be stupid not to…and it wont sour negotiations….however, sabean wont allow himself to be used to make deals better from other parties

i like that jeremy said if he couldnt resign, he wouldnt say anything bad about the org….nice dig at carlos and a couple others

I have full trust of sabean taking care of free agents. Not repeat the huff mistake again. Players deserve big contract after ws win. Other teams can pay.

michael

dgg

Agree on Baggs comments on Huff. Get over it Baggs….he’s gone, can’t you just be gracious. Have lost much respect for Baggs over the past year……makes me appreciate that Alex has class!!

Mavo

For all of you older folk on here, I found a real gem tonight that I just have to share. I love old historic stuff … radio … TV … baseball etc. I was surfing around the excellent Bay Area Radio Museum site and found a gem! You have to have Real Player to play this. Go to this link:

and click on the link for “Casey at the Mike” under the heading of 1962. You older folks are in for a treat if you can play this. First, KEWB, the forerunner to KNEW, was my favorite music station as a kid. Then I did not even remember that Casey Kasem, of Top 40 Countdown fame, was ever at KEWB. But what sealed the deal for me and why this is posted here … is the date of this old broadcast … Oct 2, 1962. Being a baseball historian with an excellent memory for dates, I realized this broadcast was during the famous Giants vs Dodgers playoff series in 1962! And sure enough at the 4 minute mark or so they give a sports report! Take a listen. Then further on they had the corny baseball song by Danny Kaye called “The D-O-D-G-E-R-S Song” about a game between the Giants and Dodgers. The listeners had picked it as the 6th requested song that evening. I even had this 45 RPM record as a kid and played it all the time!

The old jingle for KEWB also brought back a flood of memories for this old codger!! lol

Even you younger people on here might enjoy a look back at how Bay Area radio sounded 50 years ago!!

Enjoy!!

Foothills Ryan

Cool Mavo. Time Machine. Would you go back if you could?

HeHuffnPuff

Good riddance to the chain smoking beer drinking alcoholic and his wonderful life coach examples on how to ruin a marriage and a career. That late night philandering and party attitudes and missy come hither should not ever be tolerated by a team or a spouse. To go with the thong he probably has some velvet hand cuffs and leather garments whips balls and chains showcased by Mr. Wilson and the Machine. Most likely, he was the Machines alien love slave after too many brewskies.

The guy wasted himself and his career and destroyed his marriage. His deterioration started in the second half of 2012. The fall was wind aided by Giants brass that failed to recognize the falloff and assisted by giving him tons of money to play and them jerking him around for 2 years trying to let unproven rookies play. The Giants and Bochey were directly responsible for his meltdown. What was he doing at second anyways when Brett Pill who practiced at second was available to play second.

Good riddance MR. Huff. Thank you for freeing up $11M in payroll.

Foothills Ryan

Warning, I may become increasingly bullish on BJ Upton.

I saw reports that Michael Bourn may be in line for 5 years and 80 million with the Nationals as an early favorite. The same John Heyman report suggests the Phillies are a leading candidate to land Upton – to the tune of 5/60.

Do these contract estimates sound right? Check out the wisdom of the cloud:

Personally, I think they are underestimating the market which some flush with cash and inflation to boot.

Upton at 5/65 seems plausible. Is he worth 13 million a year? The OBP is not good, but this looks like a guy coming into his power. A career high 28 plus 31 SB. Guys with power find a way of taking walks when they learn pitchers don’t want to pitch to them. That price tag almost sounds like a bargain. He’s easily averaged over 3 WAR per season and as a player younger than Pagan and Bourn is less likely to see age regression in the middle of a contract. Think of a WAR as worth 5-6 million on the market. As for the “personality” issue, how much of this is made up? Who really knows the guy? How would you like playing in Tampa? Maybe he’s an NL player.

Wouldn’t it be better to get a bargain on a potential ‘star’ than watch the Phillies snag him for ‘cheap’?

a storyline to keep tabs on as Pagan sets sail – or does Pagan ink up today and make all of this moot?

Obrother

If I remember correctly after the Giants won the WS in 2010 almost everyone on this blog wanted Huff back and were very happy that the Giants signed him. He was a big part of why the Giants won the WS that year. 2011 and 2012 he wasn’t the player we all thought he’d be. I don’t fault Huff or Sabean for the signing. We’ve all seen baseball players have a great year and take a nose dive the next year. It happens and will happen again and that’s probably one of the hardest parts of Sabeans job- predicting when a player will lose production. The players know it to and that’s why a player in his early thirties wants a 4 or 5 year deal. I mean look at Alex Rodriquez. The guys still got mega millions owed to him and he’s not the same player he was. Sabean won’t fall into that trap.

Foothills Ryan

You never know, in 2 years, this crowd could be harping on Marco Scutaro’s 2/15 contract as Huff/Freddy Sanchez-esque.

Scoots4u

Marco is a quality player. Do not expect him to hit 340 or 500. If he gives you 280-290 that would be very good. Anything above 300 would be huge. Set expectations properly as a second baseman with limited power and a 280 average.

Matthew

One other, I wanted to give you a healthy level of CU sponsored ++++++++’s for your comments on Romo’s shirt that you posted late last night.

I hate for us to get political on here, but with what he wore, it was/is inevitable. I have mentioned often that I am right-leaning but am also thankful for growing up in Cali so I have a broad perspective on diversity, and a healthy dose of understanding.

I had the same exact thoughts as you, one of which was that none of us know if a kid like Romo has ever been profiled, and wether or not that played a role. Who knows? I appreciate the young man’s enthusiasm, humility and drive. ( I will warn that his joy on parade day nearly crossed into Pablo-level immaturity and Wilson-level absurdity… But the joy and relief he must have felt certainly explains that).

I also feel a deep sympathy for Huff. now, I know several on here have said he deserves no sympathy, and that he stole money from this team. Easy for us to say. The demons and stress the man has been living with is only his to understand. He brought me, and us, a championship largely on his shoulders – if not specifically for his play, as there were many who played key roles, but certainly for his unique leadership down the final stretch. The look in his eyes when he drove past us was so very introspective, and his look on stage was similar. The man knows his long career is likely over, and I’m sure he blames himself. He is still a young man chronologically, and this uncertainty can’t be an easy thing. Sure, he has money. Yes, that eases this concern. But I suggest folks take off their selfish narrow blinders and think of the chaos he must be experiencing.

Finally, as a critic of Bochy in season, I give him huge props. His post season managing crushes his counterparts. His speech was heartfelt and meaningful. He loves his ” sons” and , like any parent, struggles with his decisions to support the greater good while enhancing the individual. Bravo on the job you did this year.

channelclemente

I’ve stopped in at baseball sites in different cities all over the AL and NL during the season. I don’t know if anyone measures site activity and compares it, but this blog has to be the busiest or among the top 2 or 3 in the US. That’s a testament to the wisdom of the blogs design (no response to comments within a thread in the form of a reply function = minimizes trolling distraction because the comments role on) and the number/quality of Giants fans world wide. IMO, SF is the center of the baseball universe right now.

Anti-Lasorda

Upton for less than Ethier money 5 for $85M would be a good deal. If you’re seeing 5 for $65M I would be in that fight.

GG caliber defense, speed, some pop. All the tools… I think the G’s clubhouse and organization could work with him on the rest.

I don’t see it happeneing though. AZ cleared out Chris Young, and his brother is already in RF. You do the Math…..

channelclemente

Matthew,

for the most part, who could disagree. As fans, we would all be better served, IMO, to adopt more of the player’s perspective to this team and it’s coaches and develop a bit more patience.

Sam

Arizona already had one under achieving Upton that they explored moving last season, why would they want another one?

The Oracle

The Giants are going to continue to follow their plan. I doubt Pagan will be back, because the Giants will not be willing to go as high as the market likely will, in dollars or years. Forget about Greinke or any other big money starter. It’s not happening. BJ Upton? He’s probably also too expensive, but the team will absolutely NOT take on any potential locker room problems. They would have to be convinced that Upton would be a solid citizen to even consider it.

A lot of minor leaguers are being discussed, but most of them will never be productive big league performers. Hopefully one or two will make it, but who knows if it will be next season? I expect Sabean to solve these problems the way he has recently, with some smart, reasonably priced acquisitions.

I’m glad there’s really no off season for this blog, although reading about ridiculous proposed trades does drive me crazy. Belt for draft picks? This isn’t the NFL and, like like imposter Oracle said, Belt isn’t going anywhere. He raised his avg. 46 points this season and was among the NL’s top ten hitters over the last 2 months. There is likely more improvement to come. Finally, any time Brian Wilson is discussed, the IF should be capitalized. What he may be able to do next season is a complete guess. He’ll be a FA because the Giants aren’t going to guarantee such a question mark $6 million or more.

I think the 5/65 for Upton is still low in this market. Like you said , A-L:

” GG caliber defense, speed, some pop. All the tools… I think the G’s clubhouse and organization could work with him on the rest.”

Upwards of 80 million might be what it takes. Don’t see Arizona making that move. Kubel in left, Justin in right and Parra/Eaton in center. Heck , they might move Justin. Plus they’re playing the desert version of moneyball over there.

e-pip

One year wonders are what they are: one year wonders.
Pagan, Scutaro, Huff (2010), Ross (2010), Rowand (2007), Benitez, Alfonso, Thompson — go for a “body of work” NOT a one-off year especially when dealing with 30+ year olds!

Foothills Ryan

Oracle, I think we’re being trolled by that Vamos__Giants that was making those ludicrous proposals.

Can anybody cite an instance or two of BJ Upton and character issues? Are black athletes under the microscope in MLB? Why don’t the Giants have any on the roster? Do Caribbean players count?

All I’m saying is that perhaps it’s time for some RBI on the roster. Giants have Mays and McCovey as living legends and active members of the organization. They’ve got Jr. Giants serving a large black demographic in the bay area – bring Upton aboard. Draft some black athletes next June. Walk the walk.

Don’t know why I’m playing the race card, but there you have it.

channelclemente

Foothills,

there isn’t a racial component at any level I can see in the Giants, a Darwinian one yes, but not racial. It’s been a demographic fact for years that the participation of black athletes in baseball has been on the decline since it maxed in the mid 80′s if I recall.

e-pip

Upton: 250 and 20 hr’s?
13-15M/year for that?
Surely you gest!

2holehitting

Outside of home grown talent or a sure fire 28 year old stud, I do not see SF giving more than 3 years at $10m for anyone. Remember Sabean got in trouble for release Rowand with a year + left. They were not about to release Huff at $11M after that. They may do 2 at $11 or $12 for someone, but I do not think after the past and how this year played out, long term contracts are for any position player outside of their own home growns. In fact most of their longer contracts as of late have been to lock up their younger stars for the duration of their indentured servitude before free-agency. That puts Posey as the only internal home grown that would be offered 5 years. Belt, will have to prove out over the next 2 years and so will Crawford.

Sabean looks for the card. he will take a 275 track record at a discount or a player with limited track record with improvment over a 1 or 2 year jump on the scene stud for twice as much and twice as long.

In general most large long term contracts have never lived up to the hype. Even A-Rod at his peak was always burdened byt he $25M/year and now is breaking down. The Howard at first from Philly people are unhappy with him as well.

Keep’n It Real

I don’t know if anyone heard Baer’s interview with Tolbert yesterday, but a couple things stood out for me:

1. When Tolbert tried to pin him down about Melky possibly being re-signed he danced around the question, but said “yes” they were not pleased with the way things happened…and any discussion about Melky will happen during FA discussions between Sabean’s crew (and others).

My $0.02: In Baer’s mind, I think he’s moved on and there was nothing in his words that sounded like Melky was a possibility. That said, if he’s still out there and they are losing out on OF FAs (and a trade cannot be made), I think they consider it.

2. He discussed Pagan, Scutaro, and Affeldt. He wants them all back, but threw out the usual, “But can we afford all of them?”.

My $0.02: I’m not in favor of overspending, because we’ve seen how that can handcuff this organization. This said, if smart signings are out there on players that will fit in and can be a contributing part of this team for a few years, I don’t want to hear about any f-in “rainy day fund”. This organization raked in $$$ and will contine to do so during the off-season with merchandise sales, etc. Heck, they may even raise ticket proces too.

3. Baer also mentioned that Sabean asked him to go into a large conference room to say a few words to the scouts. Baer walked in the room and said he was blown away that these guys had been working for hours on potential FA moves, trades, etc. He said these guys are getting ready…

My $0.02: So many thoughts, but I’m hoping that the “chip” Sabean is carrying (re: WS win lack of respect) will make this team receive an A+ grade in any off-season grading articles. This doesn’t mean they have to go out and spend like the Angels (look how that worked), but they are smart and provide players that will help this t-e-a-m be in the thick of it for years.

I am just hopeful that these guys have learned from lessons past, so they can make smart deals…but aren’t being looked at as “retreads are us” either.

Anti-Lasorda

More to Footy’s point…..

One might argue that Sandoval is a clubhouse problem with his conditioning issues and that little thing in Santa Cruz….

Didn’t seem to stop the team…..

That and he gets a media pass because he has a cute nickname and presents himself as happy-go-lucky and talks to the scribes….

Bonds got ridiculed by many for his clubhouse presence, but many in the G’s clubhouse said he was a great teammate if you could get over the 3 lockers and Barc-a-Lounger treatment he felt he was entitled to.

The Jeff Kents of the world got rubbed the wrong way with it though… but we should remember the whole truck washing fiasco as contributing friction their too because it pissed off #25 something fierce that he would jeopardize his ability to help the team to hot dog on a motorbike in the parking lot.

The current club is a lot more JK in personality than BB by a long shot, but remember even the Wilson’s and Timmy’s who we embrace because of their media presence have their detractors as well.

Leonard Bonilla

Don’t misunderstand me, I love Scutaro but we have to realize he played way above his life time averages he is Life time BA 278 OBP 340, The most RBi’s he ever had prior to 2012 was 79 his combined Rbi’s for 2012 are 158.

Pagan played right at his life time averages but he played way better defense and had more triples and doubles then he ever did and that is mainly due to the Park he played in, AT&T.

I want to keep them both but we may have unrealistic expectations for Scutaro.

Affeldt on the other hand I believe should be a priority over the other two.

Anti-Lasorda

I guess my point is… the media perception of guys and their actual impact in the clubhouse is a very different thing. I don’t hear much griping from Upton’s teammates on him being a distraction….

Of course I don’t keep up with the comings and goings in Tampa that much, so I maybe wrong.

ClutchUp

@653 HeHP’s post was distasteful concerning Aubrey. Obrtother, Primetimedonna, Lefty and Matthew covered it perfectly. He has nothing for which to be ashamed about. Blogging hurtful after the fact stuff is irrelevent and lacking class.

channelclemente

Anti,

and many said Bonds was a narcissistic arse as well.

My $0.02 worth, watch what they do and not what they say. When has Sabean et.al. ever telegraphed a move? These guys sit on their cards, much less hold them close to their vest. I can see no evidence that Giants management is going to deviate into big dollar, long term contracts ever again, unless it’s proven pitching talent. The formula, struggle to the playoffs if you must and clean house when you get there with pitching.

South City Jim

Romo and Zito did a nice job on Leno last night. Showed a lot of class, sure the org is pleased. Only drawback was putting up with Jamie Lee beforehand.

Foothills Ryan

KIR,

I never anticipate anything meaningful coming out of Baer’ mouth, but the comment about the diligent scouts was cool. His olé on the Melky question was pathetic. Dude, learn how to answer a question with diplomacy rather than avoid it. You’re the big hoss, you should have learned by now. Take some notes from Sabes.

Anyhow…. Pagan, Scutaro and Affeldt are looking like guaranteed overpays. Which you have to do sometimes because of marginal win values and filling specific needs. But Pagan’s assumed price tag seems a guaranteed overpay because what you saw is most likely his ceiling. He’s a buy high candidate at a position where our best prospect is perhaps ready within a year. Pagan does not profile as a corner outfielder towards end of potential contract – where someone like Upton does. Upton could also supplant Pence after next year to make room for Brown.

And to 2holes comment – in general contracts don’t live up to the hype. That’s just not true. There are probably just as many contracts where the player produces to expectations than those that bust. This requires homework.

Foothills Ryan

And if the Giants want to hold on to their money, then anticipate an outfield of Pence in right, Blanco in Center, someone like Scott Hairston in left with Peguero and Kieschnick backing them up.

Sound good?

Keep’n It Real

Foothills,

I would want Ludwick instead of Hairston, but your suggestion may be more $ friendly to Sabean; which has been his history.

I would love to repeat, so the Dodgers can go in to “tilt” mode and the Giants can rival what the 70′s A’s and the Big Red Machine did.

It blows my mind that I waited all my life for a WS win…and we get 2 in 3 years. My kids are so spoiled

2holehitting

Foothils

if you are going to contradict what I said, please use what I said which was

“In general most large long term contracts have never lived up to the hype.”

Outside of Bonds, who was signed in his prime for 10 years and by the end of the 10 years he was underpaid I do not recall a long term contract 5 to 10 years for a major star panning out. Can you name 3?

OK I will give yah Reggie Jackson but compared to todays contracts and prices he should not count, CC Sabathia but he is a pticher. And A-Rod has been good but with the burden of his contract, those are the exceptions.

channelclemente

KIR,

you are a hoot. My son was an A’s fan, and the Giants reformed him.

2holehitting

Here is a study that tracked 1 year contracts vs mutli year contracts for performance. In this it found little variation into the contributions/productivity of the players on average that received a single year vw 4-7 year contracts.

I will leave out work in progress and agree Texiera in the short porch stadium may hold up. Helton has been off and on 260 then 300 then 260 and missing so many games over the last 5 years, he is a no in my books.

Outside of Pujoles St. Louis, Manny Ramiez in Boston and Jeter most have not lived up to their contracts or are likely will not live up to the contracts by the end of them.

channelclemente

Foothills,

I would first interrogate the premise, exactly what do you mean by help. Take a guy with an oWAR of 1.0 and a dWAR of 2.0, who does he help? He might be a perfect Giant but a terrible Red Sox, or an irrelevant Cardinal. So much of your argument depends on context, goals of the team, role on the team.

channelclemente

Foothills,

as to GMs learning. Arod is still playing, Ortiz still swings a bat, and Ryan Howard is essentially irrelevant. GMs as a group are, in the words of my dear departed GrandPa, dumber than pounded owl sh*t.

If someone wants to call me a “troll”, that’s just plain stupid. And yes, that is only my opinion. To say you disagree with my opinions would be fine. It doesn’t mean I’m “wrong” or a troll. You can’t invalidate my valid FACTS and my personal OPINIONS or IDEAS.

Giants system includes starting arms that could play late 2104 or more likely 2015. Pick three: Crick, Blackburn, Stratton, Fitzgerald, Heston, Gloor, etc. Reliever arms include Hembree and Bochy among others. But the 2015 projection for position play isn’t as strong. Especially when factoring in players ‘blocked’ in their respective positions. Adding one or two top draft picks could help with future payroll control. That payroll control would help allow a market rate Posey, Sandoval, Crawford, Bumgarner, and Romo to all stay long-term if wanted.

6 years of Cron under team control vs. Belt’s rising salary each year. Tell me in three years who has performed better from 2012 to 2013 to 2014. My money is on Cron. And less salary draw to boot.

Wilson might not have enough value for the Giants to keep him for 2013. Getting Cron back would be the greatest value I could imagine. That trickles over to Belt being available to move. In 2015 when about 65% of the team is at full market value, a young Ryne Stanek or Austin Wilson could prove invaluable. You don’t lose now, you don’t lose later.

With the 2nd WC spot, there’s more of a premium to win your division. This is helping to create about 8 or 9 “super-teams”. TEX, WAS, LAA, LAD, CIN, DET, STL. Figure BOS, NYY, ATL, PHI may be close. SFG can’t figure to have Pence, Belt, Blanco, Crawford, Pitcher’s Spot and be an elite contender, in my opinion.

* Just saw the Tonight Show videos (2 parts) with Romo and Zito. They did represent themselves and the organization very well.

* The Giants won’t be a $130M payroll team next year. That was the number for this past year, correct? 2013 payroll will be (and should be) higher than that with the post-season revenue they experienced.

South City Jim

Wow, if one uses the following formula to determine value:

Value = (WS Rings / Contract $$$) x Games Played (x5 for SP)

Zito’s not doing too bad.

Anti-Lasorda

I have a potential non-tender reclaimation project or two for consideration for finding Timsurance on the cheap.

ATL pitcher – Jair Jurrjens…. likely non-tender after horrid 2012 but liketime ERA is under 4.00 and is just 26 yo

ANA pitcher – Jerome “Big Kahuna” Williams…. Angles might not pick him up and would be a nice coming home story like Vogey. Still just 30, WHIP was under 1.3

OAK pitcher – Dallas Braden.. coming off surgery is already a F/A and might be had on the cheap. Is already Wheezy’s travelling BFF and lives with his mom in the 209. The club could keep the bro love in the house. Might be a whole new angle for Baer and the marketing department to explore and open up more season ticket holders in certain districts in the City…..

Of course Wilson himself is on this list.

Usually a club will take a gamble on one or two situations like this.. who is your favorite or nominate another.

ClutchUp

vamos_SFG! I’m sure most of us do not consider you a troll. Somebody with that similar handle/board name has been around for awhile. My only issues are if you mention somebody like “cron” from another team you might want to expand upon his upside.

Sabean coached baseball when he first started, then went into scouting. Sabeans methods are based on manhours spent drafting or draft and follow HS and College players. Lifers like Doug Matson would bolt if players like Belt were moved. BB9 is going nowhere.

Anti-Lasorda

vamos = former Beltran love slave IMO…..

He has a roster with 4 guys who won’t even be in MLB in 2013 barring a place crash. I have no room to discuss facts with the absurd.

Keep’n It Real

ESPN Tweet: Tigers are 2013 WS favorites

What-ev-ver

channelclemente

Anti,

at the very least, I’d invite Braden to camp for a shake down cruise. He is a warrior. Very Vogelsong in his approach to the game, but a lot more verbal.

The Oracle

So…the heretofore unknown CJ Cron, as I see, had a very good year in A ball. If he’s truly an excellent prospect, why would the Angels ever think of trading him for a guy coming off his second Tommy John surgery???? If they really wanted Brian Wilson, they will likely be able to sign him as a free agent, because I doubt they’re going to guarantee him $6 million plus without having any idea if he can really pitch. This idea wins the award for the most, um, let’s say interesting trade proposal. If the Angels were really willing to make that trade, how about Wilson and Blanco for Mike Trout?

Anti-Lasorda

Panik might start at AAA, but most likely in Richmond next season and finish off in Fresno. The only way that changes is if Scutaro signs elsewhere, Theriot signs elsewhere and Arias (who would be by default your starting 2B, gets hit by a bus during the spring.) Then, maybe then after the club calls Freddy Sanchez to see if he might make a go, and inquiries about Mike Fontenot’s whereabouts (he’s a free agent by the way who still hit RHs well last season .289/.343/.340….) then, maybe then Panik gets a shot.

Brown will play in Fresno, push Keishnick and Pegeuro. He only gets called up if there is an injury or he’s hitting near .400, Pagan has signed elsewhere and Blanco is hitting under .240.

Pegeuro is probably a 50/50 to make the club out of the spring pending a Pagan signing and Blancos role. Pegeuro may get his chance to even platoon partner with Blanco if he impresses in the spring.

Keisnick is a suuuuuuupa long shot (I’m talking like neededing to hit .500 with 10 bombs in the spring type of longshot) and will be in Fresno. I think he will get some limited ABs in 2013 for an injury call-up at best and needs to make up for all the ABs lost to injuries in 2012.

Roger, and Gary should look for September callups at a minimum depending on their performance and injuries with the big club. Thats where I see them…. Outside chance of Pegeuro, they will not make the Opening Day roster.

~YMMV…

ClutchUp

Personally still think this was remarkable. Applaud the Giants and especially Barry Zito for all he does for the Troops.

You’re right. You’re putting in too much work to simply be out trolling.

So long as you put an end to trading for draft picks, you’re doing all right.

And you are entitle to your opinion about Brandon Belt and CJ Cron.

We’ll see if Cron appears in the top 100 prospects. Nice homerun total for an older player in the Cal League. Doesn’t look like he’s taking too many walks. A more powerful Brett Pill ?

Foothills Ryan

CC,

I think Dave Cameron would pick BJ Upton or Nick Swisher for the Giants. He likes Ichiro to the Giants also.

Anti-Lasorda

BTW: Cow has commented last week during the WS that he still didn’t like the way Crawdad occasional backed up to play a hop. Something that we all commented on and noticed during his error streak in April. And, why I too don’t like it, I figured out why it happens.

He plays SS like a 2B and has an absolute cannon to allow him to do it. It’s a bad habit he still gets away with because his arm is just so ridiculous… it also means, over the long run he will play 2B when the arm fades…

I would love to see Crawford on a radar gun, and compare him to a 1990 Shawon Dunston to see who could win a game of burn out.

Anti-Lasorda

I’m on Swish if Pagan goes Sayonara….

South City Jim

Anti, you’re right on the money. Crawford backs up on balls because he can. Not saying it’s right, but his cannon allows him go get away with it.

channelclemente

Foothills,

Cameron figuratively speaking only, hates the Giants approach. In 2010 and again this year, he had to write a “I’m FOS apology” because of his Giants POV pre playoffs. What he would love to do, is make the Giants conform to HIS model. So be a careful consumer of his recommendations, IMO.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

Anti/SCJim: Agree on Craw. He played that way at Foothill HS and UCLA especially since over 3/4 of the batter runners in HS/College are high-high 4.7′s+ out of the box. I don’t see him really going to second base though ChannelClemente dreams of Crawls35 becoming one of his idols as in Ryan Sandberg

Anti: It may have been Mavo who has been the Crawls-back-up-too-much critic though? Wotus works with him alot + I think this back up method was taught too much in HS/College with Brandon growing up due to over half the surfaces being synthetic now in HS and College. The Giants brass asked Shawon to work with him and his quote was Why? – he’s already better than I was which was nice of Shawon because that’s not literally the case. Mark Grace DID say that the seats behind first base were never comfortable anytime a ball was hit to SS.

2holehitting

Having seen Dunston in his prime and the way that the fans dove out of the way of his incoming and eratic missiles on occasion, I will take Crawfords dives into the dirt over the airmail that was Dunston.

But boy did Dunston have bounce in those legs.

http://nada paul in p.v.

You guys crack me up criticizing Crawford’s fielding! ;o)

Anti-Lasorda

Question for the class..

Who would you most like to see pitch an inning in a blow out…

Brandon Crawford
Brandon Belt

Pick a Brandon…

I’m on Team Crawford. Belt had his chance with the sips…. and there’s film out there.

Foothills Ryan

Back to 2holes original comment.

I do agree that for the most part , the mega contracts are a disaster waiting to happen. There may be a break even point around 4 or 5 years on contracts where there’s just as many good ones as bad one. I do think the scales tip in favor of bad in that 5 + area. 6 get mostly bad and anything over 7 years is just asking for it.

So it’s a good strategy to keep FA contracts around 4 years, unless you’re talking about entrenching Buster Posey into the organization. Or Matt Cain. We’ll see how that deal looks in a couple of years. His playoff performance doesn’t give you the utmost confidence. But he’ll be back.

Foothills Ryan

Belt from a low 3/4 would be hell on Lefties.

channelclemente

Really nice analysis of Romo’s effort in the WS. He only threw 47 pitches total.

I would pick Crawford, but I would like to write-in Pence. Who knows what the heck that guy would do on the mound

channelclemente

CU,

even Crawford dreams of being Ryan Sandberg.

South City Jim

I’m not criticizing his defense, simply making a point that he stays back on balls that others would charge. Bottom line is making the plays and he makes ‘em. No one would teach the basket catch but who was a better CF than Willy Mays?

Anti-Lasorda

SCJ

+++

Crawford should have to register for a carry permit for that cannon….

Anti-Lasorda

SCJ,

minus 50 points for mis-spelling Willie Mays….

Anti-Lasorda

I’m a typo a minute guy, but you don’t get to mis-spell the Say Hey Kid…..

South City Jim

That’s funny…Willy…sorry ’bout that.

Keep’n It Real

Mark McGwire has informed the Cardinals that he has accepted the job as the LA Dodgers hitting coach. (source: ESPM tweet)

Affeldt makes a ton of sense for the Phils… the need another LH in the pen and he can certainly handle the 8th.

Anti-Lasorda

It is why last season I was big on getting Lopez done quickly. I am the same way about Affeldt this season.

Keep’n It Real

@A-L

Here’s more…

*Ruben Amaro said they do have financial flexibilty but does not have budget at this time but he believes payroll will be similar to last yr.

* I asked Amaro if they could afford to sign Upton/Bourn, Youkilis & Peralta to solve 3 biggest needs…he said not sure he could do all of it

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

Anti-Lasorda says: November 2nd, 2012 at 1:16 pm 318..Question for the class..Who would you most like to see pitch an inning in a blow out…
Brandon Crawford Brandon Belt Pick a Brandon…I’m on Team Crawford. Belt had his chance with the sips…. and there’s film out there.

AL: I think I’ll have to change it up and go with experience: Belt at his Juco/UT – and then let 35 close-up shop throwing gas. Lefty starter and a ched throwing righty. To bring some real levity into the mix anybody growing up around Red Morton Park, Baylands Athletic Center or McKelvy park in Mountain View probably remembers Crawls throwing some pitches in his youth.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

South City Jim says: November 2nd, 2012 at 1:24 pm 331..I’m not criticizing his defense, simply making a point that he stays back on balls that others would charge. Bottom line is making the plays and he makes ‘em. No one would teach the basket catch but who was a better CF than Willy Mays?

*Yep just ask Coco*

Crawford will break the habit but only on occassion. Augie Garrido once said at a Clinic that the pro infielders play behind the ball better than college kids who sometimes overcharge balls into an error. Crawford played X amount of games on turf rather than grass. That’s a factor.

South City Jim

Clutch,

If I had to choose between the two Brandon’s to throw an inning in a blowout, I’d go with Buster.

Foothills Ryan

How about Brandon Loux ?

Anti-Lasorda

Does Shane Loux have a son I don’t know about…. I know he gets a ring and a partial WS share….

ClutchUp

The only GOOD part about this episode is the awesome FUNGO golf at the beginning (Ugh: Listening to OCab talk = Rolf)

If he only looks “a little” (his gesture over and over again) bit illegal then WTF is he doing in the shirt?

I really like Romo but that was simply ridiculous.

DoggieBag

Btw, I could give two poops what the shirt said…

It could have said “I’m a prostitute” which according to his little bit gestures could be considered more truthful than his looking “illegal”…

There wasn’t a single other player or staff member doing anything even close to that.

Mavo

Thanks Foothills! I thought it was cool to hear that old radio stuff from way back. Don’t know if I would want to go back that far … to 10 years old! How about 21 and knowing what I know now? LOL We ALL wish we could do THAT!!!

I thought I’d repost my find from late late last night for those that may have missed it… I hope you enjoy this one!
=========================================

For all of you older folk on here, I found a real gem tonight that I just have to share. I love old historic stuff … radio … TV … baseball etc. I was surfing around the excellent Bay Area Radio Museum site and found a gem! You have to have Real Player to play this. Go to this link:

and click on the link for “Casey at the Mike” under the heading of 1962. You older folks are in for a treat if you can play this. First, KEWB, the forerunner to KNEW, was my favorite music station as a kid. Then I did not even remember that Casey Kasem, of Top 40 Countdown fame, was ever at KEWB. But what sealed the deal for me and why this is posted here … is the date of this old broadcast … Oct 2, 1962. Being a baseball historian with an excellent memory for dates, I realized this broadcast was during the famous Giants vs Dodgers playoff series in 1962! And sure enough at the 4 minute mark or so they give a sports report! Take a listen. Then further on they had the corny baseball song by Danny Kaye called “The D-O-D-G-E-R-S Song” about a game between the Giants and Dodgers. The listeners had picked it as the 6th requested song that evening. I even had this 45 RPM record as a kid and played it all the time!

The old jingle for KEWB also brought back a flood of memories for this old codger!! lol

Even you younger people on here might enjoy a look back at how Bay Area radio sounded 50 years ago!!

Enjoy!!

Lefty

Clutch: Thanks for the Chomsky/Atlantic link.

Which Brandon pitching? Neither, please. Didn’t someone (Canseco?) blow out his arm screwing around like that in some lopsided game? Same reason I don’t like pitchers pinch-running OR batting from the “wrong” side (talking to YOU, Tim Lincecum and MadBum).

I loved Romo & Zito on Leno last night. I thought Zito was sweet talking about his dad, the musician, studying Tom Seaver’s book so he could help young Barry learn to pitch. I thought Romo was great, too–you worry that he could get too caught up in his popularity and being a goofball (that’s happened to one of our recent closers, IMO), but he was articulate, genuine, and sincere. And he didn’t do any “Romobombing” until Leno ASKED him to!

South City Jim

I finally saw the entire replay last night. What’s the inside joke regarding Vogey’s “yur going to jail” comment? I don’t get it.

Bapah

I found this very interesting, given my feelings about Woj-types on the blog.

Wow, CU, that was a bit disturbing! Maybe I’m a bit too out of touch, but that’s kind of a rough rallying point, no?

South City Jim

Thanks Clutch. I like Vogey but bad judgment on this one.

Matthew

Agree, SCJ.. I wasn’t sure if it were his, or the full teams? Either way, I’m not sure we should be let in on that one…. Should have stayed within the confines like the Rally Thong

ClutchUp

I think the ultra-chip-on-his shoulder and very christian player, husband and father must have had an out of body experience to pull that out of nowhere …. especially when he added the bent arm elbow item for full effect. I’ve watched it twice now and Vogey looked like he felt he needed to break out of character, but why? When Posey and Cain followed they looked at him and said, wow, thanks how do you follow that? One can only gather that these players, especially on the road pick up some very RANDOM stuff on the internet. Ironically unless we are living under a rock it happens to be the bus driver who’s heading off to jail, no?

Romo’s tee shirt pales compared to Vogey’s story telling. I BET we hear something from him regarding that after Nicole works him over

That and Timmy’s stupid, sophomoric “now I know how chicks feel” remark from the WS celebration. Unnecessary comes to mind.

South City Jim

Yeah, if it’s internal rallying cry, that’s fine…don’t need to share. Maybe others on the team put him up to it, but still not the time or place given the underlying video we just saw.

Matthew

Wow… Really bummed by that…

Jumped over to MLB Network to watch the 2010 World Series video… Interesting to watch now so soon after this glorious season… I will never ever forget that 2010 year… But this 2012 team sure is extremely talented and balanced

ClutchUp

I think the ultra-chip-on-his shoulder and very Christian player, husband and father must have had an out of body experience to pull that out of nowhere, especially when he added the bent arm elbow item for full effect. I’ve watched it twice now and Vogey looked like he felt he needed to break out of character, but why? Not good thru my eyes.

When Posey and Cain followed they looked at him and said, wow, thanks how do you follow that? One can only gather that these players, especially on the road pick up some very RANDOM stuff on the internet. Ironically unless we are living under a rock it happens to be the bus driver who’s heading off to jail, no?

Romo’s tee shirt pales compared to Vogey’s story telling. I BET we hear something from him regarding that after Nicole has a chat with him.

That and Timmy’s stupid, sophomoric (now I know how chicks feel remark) from the WS celebration. Unnecessary comes to mind.

South City Jim

2012 was a better team. More speed, better defense, and Vogey over Sanchez. Only drawback was Timmy but he came up HUGE in the postseason. I see them making another run next year if they can re-sign the FAs.

vamos_SFG!

Upside on C.J. Cron:
We got all kinds of lefty bats in our system, and a large RF wall. One RH bat a la Ross, Burrell, Uribe hitting at 5th or 6th would be huge. I love how it could get Posey up in the 1st inning (batting 3rd) and Sandoval protecting Posey. Cron is a top prospect, has a legit shot at a 30HR/season career as a Giant, takes walks well, doesn’t strikeout like many power hitters. Oh yeah, he’s still pre-arb with his clock not started.

There are hardly EVER any power 1B bats available, so get him EARLY. I can hardly explain how much better a solid power hitter would make Posey and Sandoval and Pence. Ichiro had a resurgence when getting into a deep Yankee lineup. Look at Adam LaRoche or Jeff Francoeur while on good teams vs. poor teams. Torii Hunter clearly got career stats in 2012 sandwiched between Trout and Pujols. Cron would make our lineup stronger and deeper. I just don’t feel Belt does that, my opinion.

When I see the strikeouts for Oropesa, I worry how well he can trim those K’s as he climbs up the system. IF (I’m not saying anything is certain) Wilson is going anyways… Well, tell me what better we could look for than Cron? A power LF bat or a lead-off or (possibly a major bat at 1B)? Or a quality arm? Nowhere else should we look when Brown, Panik, Duvall, and Susac should be up by 2014-ish.

Yes, it’s questionable adding 2B Panik and CF Brown to the 2013 lineup. But let’s remember, Belt and Crawford did exactly this in 2011. We even had Huff coming off a career year COMPETING w/ Belt at ST and Tejada w/ Crawford, respectively.

This year, it MIGHT be a Schumacher or Barmes type 1-year deal at 2B. Somehow the Giants front office gives little respect to this position. Let’s remember the carousel that has been Burriss, Lewis, Winn, Bowker, Downs, Hill, Keppinger, Fontenot, Theriot, Sanchez, Scutaro.

If you really listened to Sabean around trade deadline 2012, it sounded like they seriously considered calling up either Panik and/or Brown right then. Sabean’s statements were very “open” rather than the definitive “not happening”s we heard in 2011 and Spring 2012. They’ve clearly been pushing Brown and Panik to get innings and at-bats, also with winter ball etc. Maybe they aren’t ready to break camp and start 2013. But I’ll take my chance with them over a reclamation project or big contract. And I want to see Brown batting 8th, w/o pressure, learning how to take pitches & walks before putting him in the lead-off.

Affeldt is irreplaceable, sign him. Pagan has so much value at AT&T: switch hitter, gap power, base running speed, outfield coverage/defense, and we know he already “fits” in the clubhouse. Can’t say that last one for Upton or Bourn or Juan-Pierre or Choo or Ludwick or Francoeur, and certainly not for Victorino either.

Kyle Perizi

If Scoots wants more security than the Gs can provide, Arias, I think deserves a good opportunity to earn that job, especially if he can hit in the 270-276 range. His offensive production really became a force the last 7 weeks of the season. He has played 4 games at 2b, he’s started in 2.

Everything worked out similarly to 2010 but there are some huge close examplesas Keepin It Real mentioned and then there is the fact that the 2012 TEAM clinched with so much time remaining. “If” I had been BB15 and BSabean I would have TRIED to TORTURE us fan base a little longer by resting 28 and 19 down that particular stretch and perhaps win by 5-8 games. But alas, the credit goes to BB15 and Wo and Flann, Roberto and Hensley (the coach not the player) because the recipe that I tossed out above is NO relativity to the actual moment because one can’t “dial-up” some on paper formula.

I just heard from one of Greg Elliott’s grounds-crew who walked the 2010 route and again this year and I was surprised that they said that 2010 was better. However I can wrap my head around that because it had been the first time in 50++ years that the 1958 parade was replicated.

By the way, on the Scutaro headfirst slide, I still think that the first base Ump got it correct. (especially since Scoots showed zero emotion)

I am extremely suprised the club didn’t make a qualifying offer to Pagan.

I know it’s beause they club is saying he’s not worth $13.3M per season, but I don’t think Pagan wants to go year-to-year and would reject the offer. That would mean the club would get draft pick compensation.

It would be easy to explain to his agent, or in negotiations that the AAV goes down as the length get longer. He’s going to be at LEAST 4 for $40M and I think that’s low by the time it’s all said and done

The Braves Front office understood that, and qualified for Bourn. We should have done the same for Pagan.

It was great to see young Crick and Blackburn on that list. I think Chris Heston was dissed, though. He led the Eastern League in ERA and was named Eastern League Pitcher of the Year–and Zack Wheeler spent most of his season in the Eastern League. Heston had a better year than Wheeler did.

I know Wheeler is considered a top prospect, and I’m not saying Heston should be up there in the top five with him–but you’d think he could at least crack the top FIFTY.

Die Hard Giants Fan

If you guys can Google a sports article: Josh Hamilton, Zack Greinke lead free-agent class of players looking to cash in big — this is not good for the Giants.

$13.4 million is what it would have cost the Giants to tender a one year offer to Marco, Pagen or Affeldt. That’s why they didn’t. So now they are free agents in a market ripe with cash. The spending by the Dodgers was not a fluke. Watch for other teams to spend this winter. Forget about landing Lohse or Sanchez. Both turned down $13.4 million. Forget about Bourne as well. Bourn, Soriano, Lohse, Ryan Madson and Jose Valverde are all represented by Scott Boras.

I think I can see why they locked up Cain and MadBum earlier this year. It may be that the best the Giants do is spend whatever cash they have to lock in Sandoval, Posey, Belt, Crawford, etc… for the long term. And build a team around home grown talent, like those I just mentioned, and get lucky with more Scutero’s and Pagan’s.

And if other teams “buy” a world series, so be it. What a ride the last three years. Two world championships and oh so close last year. I believe in 2013 still – until the last out is recorded, it’s yearto repeat.

Foothills Ryan

Lefty,

Those prospect lists are all about ceilings and guys like Heston & Kickham don’t project high ceilings. They may be very good #4 or #5 starters someday. Same goes for Surkamp. Crick and Blackburn are legit though. Exciting stuff.

DHGF,

You may be right. But you may also be a bit overboard. We’ll see what the Dodgers do and the Yankees and the Red Sox. I don’t see either of East Beasts going crazy. But we shall see.

In the meantime, Sabean can dumpster dive and the Giants will still be good next year. Perhaps Sabean does have a deal on the table for Pagan which is under serious consideration. That move really sets the tone for the offseason. If not, an offseason of Scott Hairston, Marco Scutaro and Jeremy Affeldt wouldn’t be the end of the world. Throw in a guy like Scott Feldman and go compete like they do.

Gigantes15

There’s tons of cash in MLB right now, and every team starting next season gets an extra 25-28 per year to spend. Even the A’s and Royals and Rays.
Sabean mentioned they’ve done their budget for 2013 on 95.7 but you’d think with all the merchandise and stuff sold here lately they’d have money for Pagan Scutaro and Affeldt unless they are offered extremely out of this world contracts.
Pagan it seems wants every dollar he can get but who can blame him he’s already in his 30′s and this is his big chance to set up his great great grandchildren and feed families into the year 2113.
It will be sad though if they lose their lead off and no. 2 hitter. Because they do have money.

brabon99

issue with pagan and jeremy is not amount…its length

jeremy wants a long term and no way do the giants give a 35 yr old pitcher more than a 1 and 1

pagan is going for a rowand contract….giants love angel, they will balk at a rowand contract…because of the length

they would happily give him 3 for 27 and an option…wont keep him here

Lionel Boyd Johnson

The 25 Best – and Five Worst – Free Agent Values is a pretty good read when planning acquisitions.

37 straight tweets from BCraw35 in the last hour. Guess he’s been too busy of late.

http://alepesant@yahoo.com casey

All these comments about a T-shirt? Either side of that supposed statement need to get a life. It is T-shirt.I would be more concerned about if the boys had enough sunflower seeds to do the dugout celebration on the stage of the City Hall platform.I think you bring Melky back in left, you let Pence go find other speaking engagements and re-sign Pagan and the rest of the free agents.You put Melky in right give him a 2 year 12 million dollar deal with a club option for a third year.Blanco has proven he can handle left field and we save about 12-15 million by lettting Pence go.He is not a 14-16 million dollar outfielder.

Foothills Ryan

Sounds good Casey, but I just don’t see the Giants dumping Pence – when in reality they probably should. It’s a risky proposition, can this guy hit with an OPS over .700 ever again? Can he hit better than Nate Schierholtz? And Melky Cabrera? It sure feels like they burnt that bridge, or Melky did for himself, but who knows, maybe both sides remain on amicable terms.

—

Hey, does anyone have ESPN insider?

Can you copy and paste Keith Law’s top 50, please? That would be interesting to see. I don’t know why anyone should have to pay to read what he writes. Let’s see how his list stacks up to Tim Dierkes list and Dave Cameron’s. BTW, I think the crowd sourced contracts at fangraphs have underestimated the contracts significantly. BJ Upton 4/52? We wish. Nick Swiserh at 4/56? Heck yeah Sabean should jump at those prices, even if it means forfeiting a first round draft pick. I think both those dudes end up around 70 million guaranteed.

Foothills Ryan

Here’s a guy not on anybody’s Top Free Agent Lists:

Scott Hairston

20 HRs as a Met last year. 11 @ home which is a tough yard to crank in. He beat up on lefties and he absolutely kills the Giants every year. Enough, get him on our side. Platoon him with Blanco, he’s not a centerfielder, but he’s played all 3 positions. Right handed bat with pop, still athletic at age 32. He’s probably on the juice but knows how to avoid the test. Give him a 2yr deal probably around 10 mil.

Sam

I think the Giants sign Pence to a 1 yr deal, since he is only arbitration eligible. See how the season plays out and decide how to proceed. If he plays well they can sign him long term. If he is what he was this season, they can make him one year qualifying offer for 2014 or get a draft pick.

Lefty

Bruce Jenkins’ column in the Chron today challenged the assumption that there will be a huge bidding war over Angel Pagan, pointing out others in the same market: Hamilton, Upton, Torii Hunter, Bourn, and Victorino. He also didn’t mention Swisher or Melky. His view was that Angel should consider the perfect fit he has in SF and make a good deal while he can.

As for Scutaro, he referred to some top-10 list of free agent 2Bs. Scutaro was #1. Jeff Keppinger & Freddy Sanchez are #2-3, and Theriot and Fontenot are also on the list! Wow, I guess that shows 2B really has been a revolving door the last 1.5 years in SF.

Anyway…shudder. Hope they sign Scutaro quickly, because if they lose him…shudder. I guess there’s still Arias, but…

ClutchUp

Pence isn’t going any where nor should he. He’s not an OPS guy. Sabean is not a fan of one and done guys. Sam is right. Hunter will be back.

Foothills Ryan

“He’s not an OPS guy.”

Yikes! What is he then?

Foothills Ryan

Giants don’t have to let Scutaro hold them over a barrel. They can just as easily bring back Ryan Theriot on a 1ish mil deal, and go with Arias. They’ve got Noonan and Bonds for emergency back up at Fresno. And Panik in the pipeline. Not to mention Sabean knows how to dumpster dive for these types of necessary pieces. He’s got his own version of Moneyball, don’t kid yourselves.

So maybe it’s good that he’s going to take a little time, stand back and properly evaluate the market. I don’t see of any contracts signed by the deadline. They are all free agents now.

channelclemente

Lefty,

as to ranking Scutaro as #1, where was he ranked at CO? We should all remember the concept of ‘regression to the mean’ in our post season euphoria.

Lefty, did you get the Chomsky/language link way back at the threads beginning?

channelclemente

Foothills,

maybe they could post Law’s Giants evaluation pre post season as well.

ClutchUp

He’ss Pedro Cerano but in this case can’t hit the away slider..RBI with “hella” charisma. 8)

Matthew

Since you guys LOVE this stuff…. haren is back on the market… The Vubs pulled the deal off the table, and the Angels declined his $15 million option

channelclemente

CU,

what’s killing Pence isn’t so much the slider, although he had a problem this year, it’s his zone management. His SZ contact rate is down almost a full 10%. He’s missing balls that are strikes for some reason. Nobody hits sliders, for the most part, that’s why they throw it. What they hit is hanging sliders, quite a different animal.

Fuddy

Footy, I note that you use the number .95 M for Bumgarner in 2013. I have been trying to find the source for that number and have not succeeded. I did find a slightly different number, .75M, that has no real impact to your total. But I did learn Bumgarner’s contract was impacted.

If he doesn’t qualify for arbitration, Bumgarner gets $750,000 in 2013, $3.75 million in 2014, $6.75 million in 2015, $9.75 million in 2016 and $11.5 million in 2017.”
===============
With Super Two at 2 yrs 139 days and Bumgarner at 1.127 Apr ’12, it seems that Bumgarner will make .75 in 2012. So missing Super Two cost Bumgarner $5 M!

ClutchUp

Foothills, scutaros value goes way deeper than pure offensive stats, imo. He was THE piece that solidified the batting order, the clubhouse tenor and at second base. He’s wearing Rags number….he has to come back

Matthew

I want Scutaro back. For all the points CU pointed out.. He is very good player and , by all appearances, a better teammate and leader.

A warning for the bloggers here: do NOT go Huff on him if he doesn’t replicate his amazing finish to 2012. He will likely get more money than many of you are comfortable with, in part as a bonus for his dramatic contributions this season. Because of that, many here will have no patience for him, and expect ridiculous, unsustainable production.

A guy like Scutaro, who was such a late bloomer, and who will get rewarded very late in his career arc, he will likely put a lot of pressure on himself. We don’t need to add to that.

Good luck to Scoots, and I hope WE get his amazing set of talents

channelclemente

CU,

I’d pay Scutaro extra as a batting coach. If he could get Sandoval to that contact rate, we’d have the next DiMaggio.

SurfCity

Clutch-up, I agree with you strongly regarding Scutaro. He’s not a guy you replace by dumpster-diving, or just another part you replace, as some people are asserting. That’s one of the problems with only looking at stats – people think you can just swap players in and out based on stats. I think he adds intangibles to the team, things that rub off on others. That’s why, I believe, that Sabean made him one of his high-priority signings.

Now even given all that, that doesn’t mean they sign him at ridiculous prices, and that doesn’t mean they can’t move on without him. But I don’t see him holding out for ridiculous money, but just wanting to establish the market price. And I can see the Giants making a very attractive offer to Scutaro that will make him very happy.

SurfCity

Matthew, I hear where you’re coming from, but one of the main reasons that I think blog commenters won’t “go all Huff” on Scutaro is that Scutaro himself won’t “go all Huff” on the Giants. The chances of Scutaro coming back in 2013 the way Huff did in 2011 – out of shape and not ready to play – are very small.

Now diminishing skills is another thing. If at some point during Scutaro’s contract, it becomes apparent that Scutaro is just not the same player anymore, that’s different. And if he’s still giving his all, that’s all you can ask for from a player.

Another key will be team management being able to recognize that a player’s skills have changed, and not over-play him like Bochy did with Huff. Admittedly not an easy task, especially for a manager with the loyalty to vets that Bochy has, but an important one.

Jstreet

Scutaro is the player who makes this team better not just because of his play, but equally important, because of the way he makes his teamates better. Witness Crawford’s improvement both at the plate and in the field, after Scutaro became a regular. Hitters especially benefited from his patience with the bat (Panda). And just his overall desire, and determination to get there. You could see it especially as the goal became closer. Yes, the Giants should keep this man.

Jstreet

“Panik in the Pipeline.” Good song title. Ryan, now that the season is over, you could write that one on your new Fender. Maybe unveil it opening day at Chukchansi Park, Or record it for walk-up music when he hits the big time! That will give you something constructive to do over the next 3-4 months. Warm up those tubes in the Mesa.

Foothills Ryan

There are many here who would represent Marco Scutaro well and ensure him a handsome contract. Think he’ll take 2/12 or are you thinking 2/15?

cc: Yep, I accidentally thanked Clutch instead of you (much to his astonishment)! Anyway–thanks! Love Chomsky. And the Atlantic!

Die Hard Giants Fan

David Ortiz, same age as Scutero, just signed for two years, $30 million. What’s Scutero worth? Ortiz, 23 home runs in 1/2 year before he got. Attitude, complete opposite of Scutero. If a 30 home run hitter who can DH and has an attitude problem be worth $15 mil a year what is Scutero worth? I would say around $12 million. Would the Giants swallow another Huff-esq type contract – 2 yrs $24 million for Marco? I don’t think so. Plus Marco is the premier 2nd baseman this year on the market. He will get lots of green. So the Giants can pay or play Theriot, a rookie, or make a play for Freddie Sanchez and pray.

Pence is a safe bet. Arb. One year. See how he does. He did drive home the runs and that is what this team lacked. An RBI man. So let him see what he can do next year. Pagan? He scares me on anything more than 2 years. Scutero is a proven solid 270-280 hitter when he gets the at bats. Pagan is not. I suspect we will lose him to the teams with money unless he “loves” it here. Giants will save money by signing Melky (saves $5-$7 million a years vs. signing Pagan) and they give CF to Blanco. Saves big money. And I think they sign Affeldt for 3 years. Have to be careful. What does Wilson want and what is he worth? He made $8 million last year.

Foothills Ryan

Mike Scott won the Cy Young in 1986. So yeah, he was the staff ace in the same rotation as Nolan Ryan. Over 300K’s for Scott, over 270 IP. 18-10, 2.22 ERA.

Not too shabby.

DG

Love Romo.

channelclemente

DHGF,

I hope you’re not intimating that Ortiz and Scutaro are comps. If so, maybe you should peruse the numbers for both men.

I don’t recall for sure, but Ryan may have been in Texas in ’86. I’m too lazy to check.

Lefty

Scutaro is #1 priority, in my opinion. He won’t be that hard to fit into the budget. He’s 37, so a two-year deal should be perfect. Maybe a third-year team option if that makes everyone happy. He was making $6 mil. this year, and so was Freddy Sanchez to not play at all for the Giants. So I think we can even afford a bit of raise. I’d go anywhere from $6-8 million/year for two years.

I don’t expect him to be as on-fire as he was this year, but there’s no reason not to expect him to still be good. He finished 8th in the NL in batting average and 3rd in hits! In September of 2011, he was the only guy on that awful Red Sox team playing well–hit .367 that month with 21 RBI!

Anyone who doubts how much the Giants need Scutaro should think back to the period of time between when Freddy Sanchez was injured in June 2011 and when Scutaro was acquired in late July 2012. Here’s who played 2B for the Giants:

Of that list, the only ones I’d want anywhere near our lineup are Theriot and Arias. Keppinger can be a decent hitter, but he’s horrible on defense. Theriot did a good job for the couple months he held down the position, but there’s no comparison between him and what Scutaro did. Arias was a fantastic super-sub, but is anyone convinced yet that he’s an everyday player?

I repeat: Scutaro was 3rd in the NL in hits and 8th in batting average–and he held down the position capably. He works well with Crawford and is a bridge to Panik. Get it done! More important than Pagan or Affeldt. There are other possibilities for those positions.

Richard in Winnipeg

For all you arm chair off season Gm’s
Here is you contract source for all clubs and players along with going forward projections:

Oh, I forgot: Aubrey Huff also played an inning at 2B. (How could I forget that?!)

Die Hard Giants Fan

CC, just saying both are the same age. One is a DH, the other a 2nd baseman. One hits for power and some average, the other for average. One can be a cancer in the locker room, the other is a team player. If Ortiz is worth $15 million how much is Scutero worth? I think it would be a bargain if we got him for $8 million a year. Given that he is the top 2nd baseman on the market I see him getting closer to $12 million a year. Plus, if you the Dodgers, Nats, Reds, or Cards, what is the best way to overcome the Giants? You kill two birds with one stone, you sign Scutero and make the Giants find a replacement for him. Again, how much is Scutero worth? He is worth what the market will pay him.

channelclemente

On a very serious note, looking at the Fangraphs comparables, does anyone think Ortiz might be juicing.

from a worth perspective, I’d agree a 4-7 million a year for a 3 year, maybe 8 million for a 2 year. I just refuse to get married after a weekend in Vegas.

SurfCity

I agree Lefty, with you and so many others. Scutaro does so much for this team. Those who think he can be replaced like a part are making a serious miscalculation. Those who think they can low-ball him in order to “win” a negotiation are IMO, winning the wrong game.

channelclemente

DHGF,

‘worth’ is a funny concept. What the market dictates, as we learned in 2008 in the economy, is a dubious yardstick of worth.

SurfCity

I can also see the side of those who don’t want to give up Huff-type money for Scutaro with the fear of history repeating itself. I don’t think the Giants top line for Scutaro should be limitless, but I think they have to make him an attractive offer.

Die Hard Giants Fan

Personally in this market I can see the Giants giving Scutero a two year contract for $20 million. I don’t think he will sign for less than that in this market. Would I pay Huff numbers – 2 years, $24 million? No. At some point you have to bite the bullet, pay Posey, Sandoval, Romo, and the other young kids in order to have them here long term like MadBum and Cain. If we lose Scutero I would go with Theriot for one year and start grooming Panik for the future. Same with the OF, use the money to lock in the core, and if you lose Pagan, start grooming Brown for the job. Blanco for one, Brown in two years. Same with the relievers. If Wilson walks you have Hembree. It’s tough. It hurts. But its a business.

Jstreet

“Worth” is not the same thing as “salary.”. Some folks confuse how much a player is getting paid with a players worth. Witness Aubrey Huff, and I do love Huff. But the market, while it does dictate salary, doesn’t determine value. For that, the player needs to show up a fit in to a team’s system. Witness Marco Scutaro.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

Die Hard Giants Fan says: November 3rd, 2012 at 11:55 am
David Ortiz, same age as Scutero … Attitude, complete opposite of Scutero.

DHGF: I’m giving Big Papi a pass. He is a good teammate and a bulldog and warrior within the concept of the Redsox and all things American League. When Johnny Pesky’s funeral was held on a Redsox day off – David Ortiz attended and many of his teammates blew it off. When asked why he attended – he said – because it’s Johnny Pesky’s FUNERAL and because of what the man meant to him and Redsox Nation.

Valentine recently threw Papi directly under the bus and drove forward, put it into reverse and backed up over him.

I’m siding with David Ortiz over this one. I don’t think he’s an attitude guy personally.

cc: If you get MLBN, the AFL Rising Stars Game starts at 5 p.m.–Gary Brown, Ricky Oropesa, & Heath Hembree are on the team.

Kyle Perizi

C’mon Lefty,

You talk about Arias like he’s chopped liver, or Eddie Redmayne , or some other pedestrian player. The guy’s offense really came on at a time when the Gs were still battling it out with the dorgres, sheesh.

Scoots would make an excellent hitting coach when his playing days are through, no disrespect to Sir Bam.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

Lefty says: November 3rd, 2012 at 12:04 pm Oh, I forgot: Aubrey Huff also played an inning at 2B. (How could I forget that?!)

That reminds me

Aubrey Huff III – anybody who had his dad shot and killed at age 6 and whose mom bought a batting cage at same age to keep out of trouble and is named III is always going to have quite a legacy, some good, some not so good.

In 2010 he carried the club before Posey, Burrell, Ross, Lopez and Ramirez were part of the roster. He had help. Torres had a career year.

What Aubrey brought was a much needed swagger that was infectious. He had field and locker room cred. That cred disappeared when he could not/would not replicate his 2010 successes in ’11 and ’12 – but those teammates that remained from 2010 thru 2012 were and still are aware of what it is he did exactly. Posters went crazy with references to their workplace not allowing what he did. How obvious is that. There is nothing humanly similar to what most fans do to what most ball players do. Deal with it so to speak.

Not so sure that Aubrey played second that day or that second unfairly played him (Or Bochy due to the fact that Theriot was unavailable; Huff was told it was gonna be him) Nevertheless, knowing to do something and doing it was two separate items. Every other major league defensive repetition had been at 3rd/1st or a corner outfield spot. In the HUGE scheme of things since it happened in ’12 – that particular game did not hurt them at all.

He was involved in the Buster/Cousins game offensive rally comeback.

Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 7:15PM AT&T Park Lopez took the ball with a 9th inning 3-2 deficit and melted down a tad finally giving up a Two run Dble to Stanton to make it 6-2. Trailing 6-2: going to the G’s half of the 9th – Nate singles, Burris F9, Miggy 2b, Nate to third, Mujica in to face pinch hitter Burrell; Passed ball Nate scores (6-3) Miggy to 3rd. Andres K’s. Freddy doubles, Burrell l to 3rd. HUFF singles home Burrell and Freddy. Posey singles/Huff to second. CRoss Deep F7 out. Tejada and Burrell had RISP in the B10th. Game finally lost in the fateful Cousins/Posey 12th although Nate almost tied it with a solo in the B12th to deep CF.

No, I think Arias was terrific this year. Can he be an everyday player? Defensively, absolutely. Offensively–hard to say. He wasn’t that great when he was playing everyday (when Pablo had the hand surgery). But he hit a lot better later in the season when he was platooning with Crawford. I know he killed lefties in August and hit a couple of nice drives in Cincinnati off righties. Then, after the NLDS, he disappeared into a black hole.

Possibly an answer. Jury’s out at this stage. Worth remembering that Texas chose him over Robinson Cano in the Arod trade…Yankees usually know what they’re doing with their prospects.

Lefty

Tell you what…if they miss out on Scutaro and try out Arias as the everyday 2B–what if he could hit enough to stay in the lineup and got comfortable working with Crawford? That could be a seriously slick DP combination–great speed and range–for YEARS.

Hmmmm….

Lefty

In other Bay Area sports news…

Poor Brandon Rush. Poor Warriors. Guess the NBA isn’t going to do anything to the Memphis goon who went all Metta on him and karate-chopped him from the back.

ClutchUp

Beltran was a silent contributor to Panda’s September success constantly driving outside pitches safely to LF while Pablo batted lefthanded having them hit 5-10 feet fair inside the chalk/paint. Scutaro has rubbed shoulders with other players while playing for the Mets, A’s, Jays, Red Sox, Rockies and now the Giants.

What Marco has always had is a simple professional approach. Walter Guest once said the term that so and so is a professional hitter – drove him crazy because at glance “everyone” is a professional hitter. The big difference is experience. Scutaro has almost probably hit off every american league and national hitter that has a name. The early career Marco had not the same breadth of at bats for him to be who he is today. Relaxation = comfort zone. When he first got here he admitted where am I gonna live and when can I go back and get my things and bring them to SF. When Bochy used him at 3b – he had some issues fielding which affected his at bats. Bochy and all of us KNEW that he had not played there since 2008. Gradually talent finds its own level. Major league players who have played for six teams with a BA of .276, 75 career HR’s, 478 career Rbi’s and @ 1200 hits are not considered remarkable in and of itself.

What is remarkable is that almost every teammate he has had on those five clubs has said he is a stud teammate capable of having stretches that he showed for SF. Jim Tracy said he is fine ball player, a real gentleman and a hitter who he had never seen have so many linedrives caught….

Maybe we got the “Best Of” Marco Scutaro. Going forward if/when he signs with SF – he and SF will have to monitor his amount of games played because the TOTAL overall grind of a ML schedule is brutal for both very young and not use to it – as well as the veteran who needs to keep his body rested and his skills honed.

Arias is better suited as an UberSuperSub but I agree he does provide an interesting alternative. Scutaro is a second baseman supreme, an average adequate thirdbaseman who is NOT a SS. Arias can provide innings at all three spots.

Don’t be surprised that Freddy Sanchez stays in baseball (SF) 2013.

ClutchUp

*every american/national league Pitcher*

channelclemente

Lefty,

I’ll look. Very thoughtful, I need to ween myself from the 2+ game a day habit. Although he would be a great addition at the right $$, Arias will make us forget about Scutaro, like Uribe or Rentaria. The river moves on, and the Giants adapt and improve. The age of Sabean, so to speak, has arrived.

Foothills Ryan

Ohhh dear, just saw the video of the Brandon Rush injury.

Poor guy.

ClutchUp

Not sure who will enjoy this more: CC or Foothills concerning stats

Former Major Leaguer Toby Harrah said that Statistics and Bikinis show a lot, but not everything.

I have fun with this kind of thing, so bear with me. What if the guy in the war room don’t like committing to any of Scutaro, Pagan, Pence, Affeldt or Wilson? So they move and put risk on a different set of players. Pence could be traded or non-tendered if nobody wants him.

I’ve used Cot’s and crowd sourced estimates to come up with some of the numbers. My team of monkeys has selected BJ Upton on a 5 year deal. Scott Hairston on a 2 year deal and Ichiro on a 1 year deal. They’ve selected Scott Feldman to be swingman.

That looks like a competitive team to me. If they need to add a big arm or bat at the deadline, they’ve got cap room. If they need money for extending contracts they got that. If they need to sweeten some deals, no problem. And if my team of monkeys had selected Josh Hamilton instead of BJ Upton, then the payroll is still under 150 million which is so doable for San Francisco in today’s market.

Foothills Ryan

sorry should read: “what if the guys and gals in the war room”

baseball should have more gals in the war room. like Kim “buy me a vowel” Ng.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/bwxxa ClutchUp

THE MARK APPEL STORY

Boros (IMO) is jeopardizing Mark Appells future financial security by trying to ‘beat’ the CBA. The slot money was $7.2 and he was offered $6.0M. A 35% overall tax rate and a 5% agency payment back to Dictator Boras – the net difference is about 0.7M. Boras is such a deplorable so called ambassador of agents – it’s unfair to let Appell forego a net compensation of approx 3.6M which would have been an incredible way to “start life” and huge insurance in case he doesn’t make it big time, which statistically speaking could happen to this young man. Going back to Stanford/Education etc is nice but he loses a year in the Pro System – with little to gain in the MLB landscape by returning to the Farm.

Boras and guys like the Aces Levinson’s are not winning over or back any fans at any level of baseball.

KezarMike

I look for the Giants to give priority to a Scutaro signing and for that to happen in the next few days (though we should realize that with Theriot and Arias, there ARE other ways to go, and if Freddy is healthy, he is also a helluva hitter and very good defensive second baseman too).

My take on Angel is that he doesn’t WANT to leave the Giants, but will see if there is a team that will offer him a 40 – 60 mill contract and if there is, he will take that (totally understandable). If not, then he will probably accept a 3 yr contract with Giants.

Torri Hunter for LF? (even if Angel signs)

Foothills Ryan

Some Fangraphsian analysis :

Marco Scutaro was a 2.5 WAR player in 2012. If he can repeat that, then at 5mil/WAR, he should be worth 12.5 for 2013, and some regression in 2014 so he’d be worth a about ten. So 2 years and 22 million dollars is not out of the question for Scutaro.

Joaquin Arias accumulated 1.0 WAR in half as many plate appearances as Scutaro. Let’s assume he could be a 2 WAR second baseman. For any regression in offense, the consistency of playing one position should help his defensive value. I think two is a safe bet.

By moving Arias out of the utility role, the bench loses his 1 WAR. Theriot was a 0.0 WAR player in 2012 – definition of a replacement player. Noonan would be about the same. By losing the Scutaro, the Giants woudn’t have to replace his whole 2.5 WAR, they would have to pick up the potential half WAR difference between he and Arias, plus the WAR lost by the back up infielders – or 1.5 WAR.

1.5 WAR would be about 7.5 million (perhaps more).

Looking at it this way, a 2/15 year deal for Marco Scutaro could be justified. You just have to be convinced that he is going to be a 2.5 WAR player in 2013.

If Notre Dame wins, they should be extremely humble. Seahawks level referee mistake… Doesn’t that figure? It’s yet another example why much of the country hates that football program. If you haven’t seen the fourth down and four interference call, you will.

Way too bad for Rush. Stern will do nothing. Randolph is a pig, plain and simple, and always will be . The NBA is a joke. Plain and simple

you know (at least if you accept the concept of regression to the mean) Scutaro himself won’t replace his 2.5 WAR next year.

Foothills Ryan

Nice Clutch. Absolutely correct. WAR does not take situational hitting into account.

And Scutaro’s compact stroke is so versatile that you can safely assume it does all of those way better than a replacement player and significantly better than an average player.

I think you can argue that Marco Scutaro is worth 10 million a year. Let’s just hope the Giants can get him at 2/15.

Matthew

On the ND game, the refs did their work, but the Pitt coach is making some Ron Washington level bad moves down the stretch as well.

Hope Pitt pulls it out

channelclemente

Foothills,

no one in his right mind is going to pay a 37 year old Tori Hunter 10 million dollars to play CF, much less ride the bench. %K’s up, %BB down, and ISO down 3 years running. It’s not only started but in progress, his career ending.

Sorry to keep on this ND thing…. Fortune favors the bold in football, and the Pitt coach is a six week old kitten.

channelclemente

Foothills,

looking at Scutaro this year vs his prime years say, 5 years ago, he has done one VERY big thing. He has raised his average over 100 points to RF. His average to LF and CF has stayed about flat. He used to pull everything, he just takes what the pitcher gives him now and has reclaimed the outside pitch as his property too. Listening Mr. Sandoval and Mr. Pence. His hotzone, suggests a motivation to go get Marmol if you want to try to disarm the top of the Giants order a bit.

Ok Scutaro had a 5.2 WAR in 2009 and signed a 2 yr deal with Boston for 11 mil. Last year he had to sign a 1 yr deal for 6mil. There is no way he gets 12 mil a season. He is a decent player, but he never hit .300 in his life until this past season, so he doesn’t even come within 50 points of hitting .362 next season. I wouldn’t mind seeing a Sanchez/Arias/Theriot situation if Scutaro is more than 2 yr 12 mil total.

Sam

Hunter will definitely get 10 mil next season. He can play all 3 OF positions and DH. Yanks, Rangers, will be in play for a 1 yr deal.

Foothills, thanks for mentioning me. Hamilton in LF? Hey, who wouldn’t love that? Up to Giants how much they want to spend of course. While I am clueless as to how much guys like Torii Hunter will really get, I have to say I am somewhat stunned when I see figures like 12 MILLION dollars being mentioned for pitchers with losing records and ERAs above 4. Should be a very interesting next few weeks. BJ Upton is a nice player, but TWENTY mill a year??? Wow. Teams once only paid top dollar for superstars. Guess those days are over. Giants though becoming one of the smarter organizations in figuring out who to pay the huge bucks to in this brave new world of sports and increasing broadcast money.

pacman68

I see that Foothills is in next season form with his trades and pick ups. Love it but Footy is losing his mind if the Giants are thinking about Tori Hunter. NO THANKS. Now Josh Hamilton … maybe.

Die Hard Giants Fan

Interesting war room scenarios. Hmmm. Team chemistry. Destroyed by replacing all three outfield positions and 2nd base. You have to keep Pagan and Scutero. Overpay if you have to. $12 mill for Marco, $12 mill for Pence. I would say goodbye to Wilson and his $8.5 million. And to Affeldt’s $5 mil, then use that money to get Hamilton. Now you got Pagan, Scoots, Hamilton, Posey, Panda, Pence, Belt, Crawford plus the starting five. And a bullpen with Romo, Casillas, Lopez, Kontos, Mijares, Hembree and Runzler???? The numbers work. You might lose Arias if the money is tight.

Foothills Ryan

pacman,

Yes! I’m not really thinking the Giants are thinking Torii Hunter, or Josh Hamilton. I just really hope they’re thinking with their heads. This is going to be a very exciting postseason because they should have some money to spend. As Kezar Mike suggests, this is the time for the Giants to prove they are one of the smartest and best run organizations in baseball. They can, with chance, orchestrate a dynasty that began in 2010 and runs though most of this decade. How would you like them apples?

I’ll bet Lefty is watching the SC game. As Brandon Crawford and I would say: Go Ducks!

Foothills Ryan

The SC v. Oregon game is one heckuva tilt.

Lefty

I am watching the SC/Oregon game. Great game–real shoot-out.

The horrible boy who broke Lefty Jr’s heart is now a freshman at Oregon, so I HATE Oregon now. Regardless of what happens to the Trojans, I wish nothing but harm to the Ducks. Go Stanford! Win the Pac 12 North!

Sam

DHGF:

You suggest overpaying Scutaro 12 mil if necessary and signing Hamilton and saving money by cutting Arias who will get about 500,000 next year.

Is this a joke or are you being serious? Your going to give Hamilton what 100 mil and try to save 500,000 on Arias to make all this work. Glad you are not a GM.

Does that make the A’s morally inferior?? or do they just see Colon as a player that was stupid, paid the price and now can help the team in 2013.

I hope this helps soften the Giant’s position on Melky. I just do not get the whole we’re not going to resign Melky. He’s paid his price for being stupid.. and now the only question is IF he can help the team in 2013.

Angel Pagan’s wife tweeted: “We really want to stay in SF but I don’t know if it will work out ”

I’m sure Sabean and Angel’s agent just LOVE that kind of stuff on Twitter. #notreally

Nice road win for the Warriors…

ClutchUp

I use to not like twitter but now I dispise it. Lol.

408svl

the three free agent that all has been talking about will go for the money if they can’t get what they asked for. i can assure everybody’s curiosity if any of them signed somewhere they wont have much love like what they experienced with SF Giants. juan uribe is a lesson that we saw and never was any good afterwards. it could very well happen to pagan, scutaro and affeldt. my hope is that the three will come back.

giants could have a pitcher that is expandable. outfield is where the need is. they need somebody who could bat behind posey. if pagan is not coming back blanco will play one of the outfield.scutaro will be back. just like what they did with freddy sanches. two years plus option. the rest is HOT STOVE topic.

brabon99

re pagan and others who will choose to sign elsewhere.

while fans may wish for players to resign for less just because of the perception that they love the environment, its still a biz and the athlete knows, that unless they have a no cut, no trade contract, the team will cut or trade them without a second thought…cuz its a biz

as long as pagan doesnt choose miami or the dodgers…he will be fine

and i like that his wife is honest. she really bonded with the other wives…but she gets it

Foothills Ryan

Good morning. These lists are kind of fun. Any ESPN Insiders willing to copy and paste Keith Law’s list. I’ll trade you Ken Davidoff’s list…

Awesome win by the Warriors. This bay area TEAM thing looks infectious. No Bogut, no problem. I’m impressed with Festivus Ezeli. And Carl Landry. And the other rook, the one taken with 7th pick , Harrison Barnes. Those refs just loved sending Paul to the line. No problem, Warriors overcame that also.

Lefty

In my line of work, one doesn’t get offered these kinds of deals. But objectively speaking, if I knew everything about a place and loved it, and they offered me enough money for me and my kids and grandkids to have everything they could ever need or want–I’d take it. Let’s say the comparison is between $80 million in SF or $100 million in Philadelphia. Now, $20 million more is a lot of money, I guess. To someone like me, it’s Monopoly money. I could get by on $80 million.

But…SF vs. Philadelphia? Please. Fans who adore you or fans who will turn on you and boo you when you’re writhing on the ground with a terrible injury and throw things at you? Bruce Bochy or Charlie Manuel? Really? (This is just hypothetical. I know Philly needs a CF and Angel’s name has come up on their shopping lists.)

I’ve had opportunities in my career to go elsewhere. But even though there have been job prospects that appealed to me more than the ones I’ve had, the total package of getting to live in Northern California has always won out.

It’s interesting to contemplate how a player and his wife might do this math.

Also, history shows that Brian Sabean will move on. Just ask Cody Ross and Carlos Beltran, both of whom claimed that they wanted to come back, held out for a longer/better deal, and ended up with deals that were no better than they could have had with the Giants. That could very well happen to Angel Pagan, too.

Foothills Ryan

Monopoly Money and the Bay Area is Park Avenue/Boardwalk!

Good take Lefty.

Ballplayers are itinerant creatures. Where does Pagan live during the season? And where does he really live? Does he go back to Puerto Rico in the winter or does he have a home in Florida or Arizona?

Some speculation about BJ Upton considers his offseason home in Tampa. The Phillies spring training facility is in Clearwater, not far from Upton’s home. Upton also grew up in Virginia. Therefore, Upton to Phillies for 5 years 70 million dollars. It’s an exact science, so cross Upton off the list.

Which is fine. Perhaps the Giants way this offseason makes retention of the first round draft pick priority #1. This precludes the short list of players receiving qualifying offers. So no Upton, Bourn, Hamilton, or Swisher. No problem, there is still a bevy of outfielders to choose from.

I think Sabean is in a good position to fill the outfield. Pence and Blanco are on the roster. Blanco can play center. The farm offers Pequero and Kieschnick as viable backup options (one bats L, the other R, Peguero can play center). The organizations top prospect plays center and may get the call up before September.

And there are options that do not require forfeiting the first round draft pick.

Some decent options and no need to go all in on Pagan is the moral of the story.

oj mayo

smart money: Melky for 8 million.

oj mayo

melky will want a one year deal anyways to prove his year wasn’t an hgh induced fluke so that he can then sign a bigger multiyear deal. can’t imagine the bridge was burned so badly that the team will resent having a 300+ hitter in the lineup next year…

resign pagan at up to 12/yr for 4 yrs, scoots at 8/yr for 2. let wilson and affeldt walk. if pence takes a multiyear deal at 10/yr, sign him. if not, go to arbitration and if he figures out how to hit at att, try to work something out during the season next year.

under this scenario, the giants could be a better team next year in the following ways:

1. further development/production from belt (most likely)
2. positive regression from lincecum/pence (they can’t both be as bad as they were in 2012, right?)
3. a full year of the melk man (roidless melky should still be better than el tiburon)
4. a healthier pablo (if he doesn’t party to much in venezuela)

most likely ways we could be worse:
1. scutaro turns out to have caught fire for

oj mayo

… clicked submit by accident. to continue…

most likely ways we could be worse:
1. scutaro turns out to have caught fire for 4 months and is actually over the hill and not cut out to play everyday
2. bullpen is unreliable
3. zito and lincecum are both terrible, leaving us with only 3 decent starters.

that’s pretty damn solid i think. damn solid. if timmy becomes a solid #3/4 starter (rather than one of the worst starters in the majors), we r looking pretty good.

oj mayo

Hamilton is a definite stay away. I liked Bourn until I read about his high strike out rate… a terrible trait for a non-power/speed guy about to enter his 30′s to have. also a stay away.

of all the big money guys, i like upton the best, though not at 20/yr.

the two biggest questions for this organization are when do you sign buster long term and for how much (if the mauer deal is the precedent, it seems like the cost will be too high for such an injury prone position) and the other is what do you with lincecum after this year?

OJ, your recipe may win the contest. It lands pretty much right on top of what you’d expect the payroll target to be. I think a legitimate swing man would be worth 5 million, so I’ve included “that guy”. But they could still bring back Affeldt and Wilson and run a 150 million dollar payroll.

Lefty

I’d be surprised if the Giants went for a FA who would cost them a draft pick. That means no Hamilton, Bourn, or Upton. They’re all going to be overpriced, anyway. I read that Hamilton wants 7 years/$175 million! Can you imagine?!

Mr. Sabean: Don’t overpay for Pagan. Figure out what he’s worth to you and stick to it. If it works out, great. If not, put Blanco in CF to hold down the fort for Brown and find a capable hitter for LF, either via FA or trade. Sign Scutaro, figure out whether to keep Affeldt or get a swingman (or both), decide what to do with Wilson, give Buster an extension. Then go eat your Thanksgiving dinner and play golf until February.

channelclemente

Anyone who thinks Ichiro is going to leave that Rf fence at Yankee Stadium, probably thinks Ross is going to walk away from the Green Monster in Boston. Neither have a career left if they move away from those Park advantages.

Somebody had to win this World Series, and it was the San Francisco Giants. But in doing so, this team did some extensive damage to my wall of cynicism. Now, examining the evidence with a cold, analytical eye, I’m forced to admit that there might have been something special going on, something deeper than one team peaking at the right time while other teams crumbled at the wrong time. For starters, the component parts are not impressive. These are the Garage Sale All-Stars. Go back to the early part of the season and you see just about every Giant sitting in the driveway, somebody’s damaged goods, marked down for a quick sale.

Examples:
* Brandon Belt: Still a kid, but in the eyes of many, quickly losing luster. Would he ever establish a plate presence?
* Marco Scutaro: At 36, joining his fifth team (Colorado), Scutaro was your classic garage-sale item. How would this look in the rumpus room? I don’t know, it’s kinda chipped, see if they’ll take 50 cents.
* Pablo Sandoval: Performance and maturity, trending down; weight, trending up; Giants losing patience.
* Brandon Crawford: Great glove, questionable hitting, and now he’s starting to kick the ball around? Uh-oh.
* Gregor Blanco: Journeyman last-hoper. Barely made the club. Just a bench guy who might plug a hole, steal a bag, disappear into the night.
* Angel Pagan: Hey, somebody’s got to play center. Maybe he’ll hit .270 and keep the position warm for Gary Brown or another future star.
*Buster Posey: Not your typical garage-sale item, but damaged goods, nonetheless. Can’t expect much from Buster as he recovers. Really, would he ever be the same?
* Sergio Romo: Really nice piece of the bullpen, but for God’s sake, don’t even dream of making this Frisbee-flinging pipsqueak your closer.
* Ryan Vogelsong: He already had his dream season. Now maybe the Giants would get a serviceable year from him, move him aside and let the studs take over in the playoffs.
* Tim Lincecum: Two starts into the season, the question was, “Where can we hide this guy?”
* Barry Zito: If this is a garage sale, Zeets doesn’t even make the card table. He goes straight into the dumpster.
Look, garage sale items can be cool and fun to spice up your decor, but do you want to furnish the entire house with this junk?

That’s what the Giants were faced with. Something happened. Everything fell into place. Full credit to Brian Sabean and his boys for knowing how to find gems buried under old tools and eight-track tapes, but there was also a chemical reaction taking place.

The various players seemed to inspire one another. It’s possible that the chemistry happened because these guys liked, and needed each other.
There was heart on this team. Zito, boos ringing in his ears, visited wounded soldiers. Tim Flannery spent his spare time singing to raise money for Bryan Stow. Lincecum, career spiraling downward, never ducked the media or the world.

Romo, whose parents picked your salad, carried the banner for his Mexican-American brothers and sisters. His parade T-shirt: “I JUST LOOK ILLEGAL.” And so on.

Now, back to the dugout silliness: The pregame seed-shower thing grew out of Hunter Pence’s pep talks. Those talks came about because Scutaro went to Pence and told him the team needed something. So without Scutaro, the Right Reverend Pence never comes into existence. How did newcomer Scutaro know that Pence, a newcomer who hit .219 with the Giants, would be perfect for this odd leadership role?

If you saw Pence work the Market Street parade, you saw what Scutaro saw. There might not be two guys in baseball other than Scutaro and Pence who could have created that crazy act. Pence’s pre-gamers morphed into the seed-shower thing, which as I understand it, was Sandoval’s baby. It has Panda’s silly, joyful, child-like fingerprints all over it.

And Posey. Buster Ballgame is the team leader. Surely he can be one of the guys at times, but the demeanor Posey presents to the world is that of a chaperone at a high-school dance. The goofy dugout ritual – is this any way to prepare for a crucial game? – does not take place without Posey’s tacit approval and enthusiastic participation.

It also does not take place under just any manager. There can be no doubt that Bruce Bochy’s easy-going, wise, patient and accepting style made the whole chemical reaction possible. Somebody’s got to win, but sometimes there’s a reason.

Uncle. During every winning team’s celebration, you get out your invisible checklist.

Oh, the adversity we overcame! Check. Nobody believed in us. Check.
This just shows their great character. Check.

South City Jim

Clutch,

Have I got this right in terms of Giants SF record in elimination games:

I’m may be off a little, but not much. Pretty amazing what they accomplished in 2012!

http://yahoo Baldheadslick1

Just got out of rehab for the past week, withdrawals were horrible, no baseball to watch or listen to for months. I really don’t care who leaves or stay because its out of my control and out of your control to. I root for the SF Giants regardless of who the players are. It hurts when your favorite player leaves for greener pastures so I taught myself not to care so much, this way I won’t be hurt. Go warriors.

South City Jim

Brandon Rush out for season – the Robert Parish Curse continues.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

SCityJim: That looks correct to me but others may have more data.

How about another type of sad day at the Stick? In 1972 the field was converted from grass to Astroturf.

What were they… or anybody thinking

South City Jim

Thank goodness they went back to grass. Niners probably don’t beat Dallas in 1982 on a slick surface.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

If ANYBODY does the scrapbook thing for themselves or their kids

You have to weed through the religious filler ….

Enjoy = SF Scorecards for all 2012 Post Season Games (not all the Cincy games)

I may expire with no baseball, and the election over. Maybe I’ll develop an interest in Israeli politics, or some other contact sport.

Out of boredom, I anticipate I’ll be tempted to pillage the odd trollfool. Argh! Where is that crazy SOB Sarge when you need him.

channelclemente

Alex,

drop the drumstick, and set the damn blog clock.

Stan

Last I heard he had started another Giant site. Nothing about that on the net. He really wants to re-do his baseball “expertise”. Better to get out the blogging bizz.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

CC, last time I “talked” with Pavs, he said he was heading “out” for about one week … I remember this time @ 2010 and 2011 there was NO corporate participation

Roster: Arizona Fall League Rising Stars Game

The following umpires have been assigned to officiate the AZ Fall League Rising Stars Game, showcasing MiLB prospects from all 30 MLB franchises. Hosted by the Salt River Fields at Talking Stick, Scottsdale, Arizona. Assigned umpires are all Triple-A (PCL = Pacific Coast League; IL = International League).

HP: Chad Whitson
1B: Ben May
2B: Chris Segal
3B: Sean Barber

Notable Play: You Make the Call/Video: Angels prospect Kaleb Cowart catches, tumbles into stands. Top 1st inning: With 1 out & R2, B1′s foul fly ball is caught by F5, who leans and subsequently falls into the stands. R2 tags from second base and scores a run. Should umpires allow the score or send R2 back to third base under the auspices of Rule 7.04(c)? Call on the field: In play, R2 scores.

That person whose name shall not be mentioned, or persons, ran into JoBu recently. It was not a happy ending for “S”. Maybe Bangkok WG will get gritty once again and try calling you by one of the pole gals names? What was it — Chanel #9 ?

channelclemente

Maybe Bangkok can give Sarge the Clap, and live happily ever after. I’m so desperate, I’m over at the Phillies site kibitzing. They’re going to rebuild in the Giants model, except change nothing except add a pitcher, Greinke they hope. I’m beginning to realize that Least Coast baseball is in shock about what just happened to them and has no idea about how to analyze it.

channelclemente

Stan,

if there were ‘blogging bizz’ to take, don’t you think Baggarly would have taken it. If you can’t migrate these bloggers you read here everyday, you trying to farce tuck a turtle.

Stan

lol,I found that Eric Shackleford has given up on his Giant blogging. Another of history’s Milt Kahns…

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

CC, despite people hating on Charlie Manual, his guys DO love him as much as BB15′s guys play hard for him. Of course there are always detractors (How ya doing, Matthew) Just kidding.

This below should make TWC grimace. The quote is from Willie Brown.

“I couldn’t help but rib Giants chief Larry Baer and his wife, Pam, about the Matier and Ross item reporting that he’s being talked up as a possible future mayor. “I’ll even volunteer for the campaign,” I said.

At which point Pam chimed in, “If you do, it will be with his second wife.”

Lefty

SC Jim: The 2002 Giants won at least two elimination games–Games 4-5 of the NLDS against the Braves. They had gone down 1-2 and somehow won Games 4-5 on the road against the Braves, who were the #1 seed (Giants were the wild card). You could also say that Game 162 was an elimination game because they won the wild card on the last day. In fact, they had to win out their final eight games to get into the playoffs!

Of course, we all remember the elimination game they did lose. Too bad, because the ’02 Giants were almost as good of a “never say die” story as the ’12 Giants.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

ChannelClemente – boredom is severe because its the 49ers bye week.

If you get really bored you might try to help this poor gal who is fed up with the way her City/County Fathers have decided to put up their deer crossing signs.

cc: I was on philly.com this morning, too (commented as “DrLefty”). That article was hilarious: The plan is to rebuild the Phils by buying a bunch of former Giants (in addition to the ones they already have, Frandsen & Schierholtz): Melky, Angel, Scutaro (to play third!), and Cody Ross.

It was almost as funny as the Bleacher Report piece someone linked here a few days ago that was a position-by-position comparison of the 2012 Phils & Giants that “proved” the Phils are better (actual RESULTS being irrelevant, of course). Of course, they used Emmanuel Burriss vs. Chase Utley as comparison points at 2B.

channelclemente

CU,

Manuel’s big problem, unlike Bochy, is Ruben Amare, the Phillies GM. We are just beginning to realize the quality of job Sabean has done here. I’m not sure he can keep it up, but let’s hope he can.

CC, Lefty et al: How banged up is Uttley every season? Seems funny that both Uttley and Descalso live in San Francisco during the off season.

channelclemente

Lefty,

they have a choice to make back east, build baseball parks or bandboxes. They have twistedd baseball, and accentuated marginal and older players value to such a degree it’s going to depress the game and blur any lines between cost and value where it’ll threaten the game. You’re right though, that article was sophomoric, to be kind.

CU,

I grew up in Texas and lived football from the age of 5, this version of WWE with cleats and PEDs just bores me silly, it’s not football. I gave up foolsball in 1974 at a Dolphins-Oilers game when I realized they had called a TV timeout for a commercial.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

I guess when Mr. Randy Watson got all flustered by “our” support over Romo’s tee shirt vs. his out-rage, and when he got hacked and chose to finally obtain an avatar – that the avatar would “attach it self” to every other board name he’s logged in under.

Hamilton wants 7/175. Following him will be the story of the off-season. What team will risk that?

His upside is terrific. But he has an addictive personality. He is one binge away from being completely worthless.

HelloHelloClutch Up

Stan, did not know that about RWatson? Does he spread his wings on other sites? Hey everyone, some doubted Andrew Lucks pro capabilities vs somebody like RGriffin? Chortle.!

Matthew

Clutch… Thanks for the call out! BB15 did a WHOLE BUNCH to win me over… Obviously! I tried to be a bit balanced about him, but my frustrations came out during the season… But his “set lineup” down the stretch and especially in the post season was FABOO!!!!

My beef was that I wanted him to always go defense first and felt he often didn’t making the same pitchers pay the price (Tim) …

But, you are so right… The boys play HARD for him, and they all gave him props. Which made me introspective at the end… What the heck do I know?! They WON THE SERIES!

So..I’m good. Thanks!

ClutchUp

Matthew I was just messin. Bochy IS a frustrrating skipper to try to think along with for sure. I even think he knowingly plays certaiin guys early in the season at the sake of losing losing some games. He knows he has a built in 62-68 games to mess with on the Loss side of the slate. Must be MADDENING to many

ClutchUp

for critics of BamBam, he will miss most of spring training 2013

Walter Guest

There’s a good argument for non-tendering Pence.

He’s been about replacement level in over 300 PA’s with the Giants (including playoffs). People point to his RBI’s, the only positive in his batting line. But he vultured them by hitting behind 3 of the top hitters in the majors while he was here (Pagan, Scutero and Posey plus Pablo).

If I understand the process correctly, he will get 12 or 13 mil out of arbitration. That kind of money, maybe a little more, would get Nick Swisher who is a much better all-round player. Another option would be Melky to play right for 6 to 8 mil. Off meds, he is comparable to Pence when you include fielding.

Another factor is the risk of Pence not getting any better than he has been with the Giants. Bochy, with his derangement, has already made up his mind that Pence will play every day next season no matter how he performs. And Pence hit worse in 2012 than Huff did in 2011.

Non-tendering pence would save Bochy from himself.

Hunters Fan Mom

Wow, we guess(t) that could be the first off season salvo. For somebody who doest suffer fools or respond to trolls you are a tad long in the tooth dept. Non tender Hunter? Its Sabean NOT Bochy who is bringing Hunter back. Pence is a winning type player with intangibles. Not as good as Swisher? Please. Vujared the RBI’s hahaha, okay have heard everything now. What about his rbi’s in Houston and Philly? Who did he vuljarize there?

Walter Guest

Clutchup reminds me of Ralph the dog in the old “Pogo” cartoon. Every time Ralph appeared he would launch into long speeches in praise of dogs, so emotional he would wind up weeping. Clutchup often does the same thing in praise of Bochy, probably winding up weeping onto his keyboard.

The trouble is, Clutchup is a one dimensional commentator. I have read his stuff for years and cannot remember a single criticism of Bochy and the Giants. Once, when Bochy made a horrible screw-up, I called him on it saying even Helen Keller could see that. Clutchup refused to concede, saying only he wasn’t watching the game.

For Clutchup and others here, the Giants are a religion and Bochy is the prophet.

channelclemente

Sir Walter,

weren’t you more comfortable in the can, Raleigh you were. You just don’t understand Bochy, maybe they could let clean spittoons and urinals in the clubhouse to acclimate to your comfort zone.

Mr. Guest: “Once, when Bochy made a horrible screw-up, I called him on it saying even Helen Keller could see that. Clutchup refused to concede, saying only he wasn’t watching the game.”… Doesn’t reflect well on you, dood.

And btw, OF COURSE the Giants are a religion.!!!

vamos_SFG!

I think I got the “best” deal figured out. This (like any suggested idea I have) isn’t about not liking a player (B-Weeezy or Belt, for example). It’s about what “fits” best overall.

Brian Wilson for Corey Hart straight up trade. Anybody like this?

Wilson has 1 yr left at about $8M. Corey Hart has 1 yr left on contract at $10M. MIL has a team ERA of 4.22 with 29 blown saves in 2012. Amazingly, they are in a good number of games (late). If I figure, w/o Hart they lose some offense and some save opportunities (maybe 8-10?). But they get Wilson who only blows about 12-14 saves for the year.

That would still be a “real-world wins above replacement” of maybe 5 to 10. Great outlook for the Brewers?

We get excellent depth in our lineup, options with what to do with Belt. Could more comfortably try Panik at the 2-spot, Posey 3rd, Hart 4th, Sandoval 5th, Pence 6th. A power right-hand bat could be an awesome threat to help strengthen everyone from 3rd to 7th in the line-up.

Our starting rotation is still a bit stronger, and they still have no bullpen.

ClutchUp

Corey Hart is a known commodity. Wilso with two career Tommy Johm surgerys is an unknown. Brewers are smarter than that! Belt is Sabes Bochys firstbaseman. Romo is not a regular season type closer. He’s 5’9 @ 155lbs.

overton j’anthony mayo

Vamos, thats a terrible trade for the brewers. For all anyone knows, Wilson is done for good. And as a shell of his former self, he’s far more valuable to the Giants, whose clubhouse and fans love the guy than he is to any other team.

Lefty

No idea if the Brewers would move Corey Hart, but with one year left on the deal, maybe. Brewers are small market and usually don’t keep their FAs–traded Greinke because they knew they’d lose him.

I agree with Clutch that they wouldn’t do this for Wilson, but what about Casilla? He had 25 saves this year for the Giants and has great stuff. He’s in his second year arb and about to get too pricey for the Giants as a 7th inning guy, so now might be a good time to move him. They have his cheaper replacement (Kontos) already.

Plus, let’s be honest–Casilla makes us all nervous, doesn’t he? I don’t know if Corey Hart’s the deal, but Casilla has value, and trading him for something else we need might not be a bad idea. Even a good prospect or two.

I love the idea of keeping a guy like Casilla, hard throwing heat, devasting breaking pitches; for late inning relief. But he punishes our catchers with his balls in the dirt- especially if any runners are on. I think it is a factor like Lincecum needing to learn to hold runners better. It can’t be overlooked.

BTW, Hembree’s fast ball looked really “heavy” in the Futures game. I can imagine lots of broken bats in the future. Very promising, if he can continue to work on his control as we all know is his only hurdle left before joining The Show.

If Casilla’s value is high enough to net Corey Hart in a straight trade, or even if we “only” had to throw in a B prospect like Gillaspie or Adrianza I’d want it done. The fact is, for any team with massive fails in blown saves, there is basically NO FA market for closers this year.

And you’re gonna have to compete with AT LEAST LAA, DET and NYY for any closer (in trading or in FA signing). I’m not even including BOS, STL, or MIA (each with 22 BLSV in 2012).

I’d bet some team is willing to take a “one-year flier” on B-Weezy, if they can handle what our team’s “ask” is. Even if Wilson can’t throw/close until May, he could help any team he is on- yes I am including the Giants as well.

overton j’anthony mayo

thinking about it, i dunno if this postseason sets up well for the giants. the two free agents who we need to be replaced happen to be probably the most valuable players at their positions about to hit the market–pagan and scutaro.

pagan especially… all the other good of’s on this market are gonna be overpriced–hamilton, upton, bourne. pagan will be pursued heavily by the smart teams. add to that the fact that another good value guy–melky–is someone who the giants (foolishly in my opinion) probably don’t want, and it doesn’t look good.

ideally, the guys who’ll be providing value as signings come from other teams and join yours. for us, we’re gonna have to fight to keep these guys, and if we can’t we’ll have to go out and get some of the higher risk or higher cost guys to replace them.

of the two, i feel like scutaro is more likely to accept a below market value deal to stay in a good situation where he has the chance to continue winning. pagan is in a position to go out and get his, as he should.

i wonder, if pence was non-tendered, what would he get on the open market? however, i think that because offering him arbitration would only commit us to one year, we’re likely to offer it to him. i hope that sabean doesn’t decide to sign him long term to justify trading a prospect for him.

ClutchUp

Scutaro is a LOCK to return. He’s really not a starter on too many other teams in MLB. His 162 game grind needs monitoring. He Is A GIANT!

vamos_SFG!

I think Pence will bounce back towards his career average in 2013. I think the “largeness” of the moment sometimes got to him a bit in 2012. Let’s remember he spent most of his young career in losing Houston. The half season of 2011 in PHI, he did very well in the small yard. Maybe when the reality hit, that he was protecting Posey… And the Giants were tempting fate to go deep into the playoffs, he tried too hard.

That big RF Willie Mays Wall might’ve been in his head a bit at first too.

He should get $9M-ish in arb. If he can trust his abilities that got him this far, knowing he helped earn a ring… If he realizes how his gap power can play in his home AT&T Park, he could go .285 avg, 35 2B, 12 3B, 15-18 HR next year. If he’s trying to go for a 30 HR season in his walk year, he might be terrible in 2012.

vamos_SFG!

I still can hardly believe that PHI let Pence go after what they spent to get him. INSANE when I think about Cozart and Singleton BOTH being in that trade package for Pence. That was pretty lopsided from the start, but Pence’s of 2.5 years of service seemed to balance it.

We traded Schierholtz (who I will always hope does well, he was a great Giant). Jospeh is blocked by Hector Sanchez and I really, really like Susac’s receiving skills already. His arm might be just a tad stronger than Posey’s. But his plate discipline is still a work in progress.

I’d like the Giants front office to recognize the situation with some of our other prospects. They are blocked. And some are simply not likely enough to develop into an everyday MLB player. Packaging a couple of these prospects together can net one of the very few key pieces we need moving forward.

Giants finally cut ties w/ Hinshaw, and guys like Bowker and Frandsen. What about Burriss and Runzler, maybe Surkamp? Gillaspie, Chris Dominguez, Aldred? Others just simply slide away, like Max Ramirez, Edgar Gonzalez, and Osiris Matos, and I’ll never understand why we let that happen, without any return on investment.

ClutchUp

Hector is still a bonifide trade chip. When Sabean answers his phone he gets asked aboit Bum and Sanchez.

vamos_SFG!

Seattle really wanted Belt at the 2012 trade deadline.

ClutchUp

No chance of belt being dealt at 2012 deadline or future. Super lefthanded firstbaseman who became a pro in 2009. He was invested by scout man hours. He had big hit(s) in the post season. He’s the present and future.

Na

Walter can’t post any more today.

He called me a poon-Nazi.

So…

NO POON FOR HIM!!

Foothills Ryan

Vamos_SFG!,

You are a real hoot. Trading for draft picks. Trading Belt & picking up some guy who had a good year in A ball. Trading Wilson for Corey Hart. No, make that Casilla for Hart. Top it off by trading a collection minor prospects and non-prospects for somebody useful.

I like that kind of spirit in a Giants fan!

Lefty

If you like this kind of thing, here is Ashkon’s 2012 Giants anthem. I enjoyed it:

On free agents, it’s a head-scratcher to me why the Giants did make a qualifying offer to Pagan. I get that $13.3 million for a year would be a big overpay, but since Angel wants and will certainly get a multi-year deal, he would have turned it down.

So not only will the Giants not get a draft pick if he signs elsewhere, but Angel may have jumped to the top of a lot of lists in that Hamilton, Bourn, Upton, and Swisher will all cost draft picks for any team that signs them. If you had to choose between Angel and Bourn, for example–very similar games–Angel is more attractive because of the draft pick situation.

So not giving Angel the qualifying offer may ensure that there will be a bidding war and the Giants will let him walk. I can live with that, I guess, but if they really wanted to keep him, I’m not following the strategy.

Lefty

Sorry–did NOT make a qualifying offer to Pagan!

Foothills Ryan

What were they thinking?? (not making a QO to Pagan?)

They must’ve been thinking something. Maybe they have a framework laid out, which while winning the World Series, they didn’t have a long enough window to get the deal hammered out.

Maybe Pagan and Scutaro forego the free market and sign by the end of the week

As for Hunter Pence… I wonder if there are voices of dissent in the room that say NO – this guy has lost the ability to hit – let’s not throw away 12 million dollars. Ultimately, the back of baseball card, winning vibe, money lies in RBI’s crowd will prevail.

Foothills Ryan

Alex,

New thread just say “Hello” and start a new thread. Don’t mean to tell you what to do, just a suggestion for the box ;0)

Lefty

Foothills: The only theory we came up with on Pagan was that NOT giving him the QO was an act of good faith: “We appreciate you, we want you back, but we’re not going to put an obstacle in your way of checking out the market.”

I know this whole QO thing is new and that the Giants had less time than anyone to prepare for it, but I can’t believe Sabean’s office would just screw that up. There must have been a reason.

On Pence: Yeah, I bet there are some people struggling with that one. As a fan, I know I am On the one side you have Pence’s track record over six seasons, his 104 RBI, and his undeniable influence on team chemistry in the postseason. On the other you have his abysmal hitting record in the last couple months and his inability to protect Posey, especially in the NLCS. (By the time Pence did start hitting at the end of the NLCS and the World Series, Buster had gone ice cold–though he did wake up just in time in Game 4, didn’t he?)

I think Pence could be a fine complementary piece, a terrific six hitter. But someone else–Sandoval, a new guy, maybe even Belt–should hit behind Posey. And $12-14 million is a lot to pay for a “complementary piece.” So you have Pence’s legitimate upside versus his cost basis. Tough call.

Given Sabean’s high opinion of Pence, his and Bochy’s value of team chemistry, and the players traded to obtain Pence, he’ll be back. Nontender is not a possibility, in my opinion.

channelclemente

Lefty,

you wonder what some folks are thinking, they don’t have a WS trophy without Pence’s defense and timely offense.

ClutchUp

Footy: Alex on well deserved week off. 2010-2011 were the same way. Silence. Let it be, no?

600

600th!

channelclemente

600,

now maybe the impact of uncertainty is more clear to you.

stickman

When we consider adding to the outfield equation we should not overlook the fact that the Twins had a horrendous record this past season, mainly due to the fact that they were absolutely jonesing for pitching, both starting and relief. Last winter they picked up Josh Willingham who was an offensive monster for them with a pile of home runs and piles of RBIs. AND he bats right-handed.

If we’re talking trading off Casilla, how bout him and Crick and possibly another pitching prospect (B level) for that righthanded outfielder bat. Willingham would bolster the lineup precisely where it needs the boost. Twins budget is already fairly high, their attendance is sagging, they non-tendered their erstwhile closer and their ears should be open. Minnesota would take a hit offensively without Willingham, but they are presently deep in the baseball wilderness. Casilla would likely be their best closer option and Crick would possibly give them a serviceable starter in another two years.

Anti-Lasorda

Stickman,

Trading your top rated pitching prospect for a 33+ plus year old bat is ALWAYS a bad idea.

We missed out chance on Willingham last year. Time to move on.

Rumor Central

From someone who knows these things: Josh Hamilton’s asking price is 7 years and $175M. #Rangers #MLB
— John Perrotto (@jperrotto) November 2, 2012

Let’s go ahead and pass on him…..

stickman

Anti: Some may, but i would not rate Crick as our top starter prospect. He is not as good as either Blackburn or Heston, imho, as command and control are still works in progress. Perhaps he will develop them, maybe he won’t. Meanwhile, Blackburn and Heston both are well advanced along those lines and it shows in their ERA’s and various peripherals. Giants seem to have no problem in scouting and developing good pitchers.

channelclemente

Willingham is ‘powerless at AT&T and is a defensive disaster. How many runs did Blanco save with his defense.

If folks want to suggest options, it might be sensible to pick options that parallel a team built on speed, defense, and pitching with timely hitting. With Willingham, we start to resemble a Least Coast Bandbox denizen, and not the Giants team that just won a WS. Just my opinion.

channelclemente

IMO,

the only sensible upgrade for Blanco might be Alex Gordon with KC. I know he’s an unlikely acquisition, but he’s the most sensible nonetheless. I would speculate that after the way Blanco hit in Sept/Oct, and the post season, LF is Blanco’s until Bochy finds someone better.

Stan

channel..dont be a boob again. This is a blog. And-I’m not even sure what you meant. Sounds like you had a few before posting.

channelclemente

Stan,

that’s high praise from boob central.

ClutchUp

CC’s correct. The fences are not coming in @ ATT. HR’s hit there are on mistake location pitches + guys with good bat speed who “guess” correctly. The parks DNA makes guys like Blanco, Cabrera, Pence…Pegs, and yes Nate valuable. GBrown will be around the corner. The Maybins, Fowlers, and Uptons love playin D @ ATT.

Foothills Ryan

Save the trades for the July 31st deadline. Keep the farm in tact.

Stock up with available free agents that won’t cost a draft pick. Build the farm.

Steer clear of defensive liabilities. Support the pitchers.

This limits the pool to …

Pagan, Cabrera, Hairston, Ross, Ichiro. Who else am I missing?

Foothills Ryan

Pool for outfielders. Scutaro should be a lock.

stickman

Anti: “Willingham is powerless at ATT”. First off, why the H. do you call it ATT? That’s corporate line all the way. We should call it Willie Mays Field and starting soonest while he is still with us. Eff all the corporate kissups. Broadcasting talking heads need to toe the party line and that’s ok with me, but we fans should do it right. Enron Field, anyone?

Powerless in our park is pretty much an ex-cathedra pronouncement. What’s your logic, here? He’s a righthanded bat, pretty much a pull hitter.If he batted lefthanded, there would be a huge problem. Granted, he has no speed and is somewhat defensively challenged. So the scenario would be he gets the first two or three AB’s, depending on matchups, and then its shutdown time with El Tiburon Blanco taking over.
ONE water-buffalo playing LF and starting the majority of games, particularly on Eastern jaunts in bandboxes, should be seen as a plus. In Blanco starts, he would be a major threat off the bench and in AL park DH situations he would be the go to guy.

channelclemente

Foothills,

did you just have 4 straws? Hairston is the only guy on that list is even likely to be considered, and then as a bench sub.

Anti-Lasorda

Blanco is your starting CF folks. Pagan’s wife tweeted all but a thnaks for the memories last week…

I hope I am wrong. I like Pagan’s game and think he is tailor made to the park (even if he should be in RF with Blancdo in CF and Pence in LF) but I don’t think so….

Sabean and Evans have a brass pair, and are trying to wait the early market out with Angel as Jenkins noted there are PLENTY of OF options and Blanco is more than capable defensively of not losing the defense.

I have a question for the class… and this is the hard debate in the front office right now, how much are you willing to overpay, not to have to talk to Cabrera. And that’s the real issue, here.

Larry Baer has done everthing possible except piss on Melky’s uniform to let his preference be known he wouldn’t like to have Melkmen in the OF and try to distance himself from the PED taint of 2001 – 2004. The simple economic fact that Sabean and Evans know is the best bang for the buck OF is Cabrera, Blanco, Pence. Cabrera is going to have to take a 1 year prove it contract, he’ll be lucky if it much more than the $6.5M he earned last year. I would argue that OF is better than Blanco, Pagan, Pence and will be $6M cheaper next year AND not block Brown for 2014 and not have another 3 years of obligation to Pagan at around $30M.

So Larry, you want to walk the walk? Open the checkbook big guy and pay Angel or stop being a hypocrite and let Sabean sign Melky.

Or better yet, do both. And let Melky potentially be a redemption story for 2013.

~YMMV.

Anti-Lasorda

Stick, You should direct your anti-coporate vitrol at channel. I just said you can’t play GM in the past.

2011 offseason is gone. Sabean seemed to do quite well passing on Willingham. He won the World Series.

Go fig.

channelclemente

Foothills,

thought you might be interested for comparisons sake. The Dodger payroll details.

..and here I thought you were a subtle, ‘nice’ guy. You’re right, sometimes ripping the bandaid off the obvious truth can be liberating to someone who wants to ship a ‘station to station’ LF zombie onto a speed club.

Anti-Lasorda

From Hardball talk posted on Comcast….

23. Angel Pagan (OF Giants — Age 31): The Mets were considering non-tendering Pagan a year ago before trading him to the Giants. Now he may well be in line for a three-year deal after hitting .288/.338/.440 with 29 steals in 605 at-bats as the center fielder and leadoff hitter for the world champions. The Giants figure to have the big edge in re-signing him, though given the depth in center field available this winter, they could always move on if he asks for too much. $21 million-$24 million for three years might work.

…

29. Marco Scutaro (2B Giants — Age 37): The legend of Scutaro almost failed to materialize; he went just 3-for-20 in the NLDS against the Reds. Of course, he reeled off 16 hits in the eight games afterwards, capturing NLCS MVP honors along the way. It’s hard to imagine the Giants letting him go after the boost he provided in the second half and in the postseason, even if it might mean giving a three-year contract to a 37-year-old. Scutaro probably isn’t a realistic option as a shortstop any longer, but as a second baseman, he’s looking at a couple of more years as a solid regular.

…

33. Jeremy Affeldt (LHP Giants — Age 33): Spending $9.25 million on a pair of lefty relievers worked out pretty darn well for the Giants last season. It might take even more to maintain the pairing next year with Affeldt eligible for free agency and Javier Lopez still on the books for another $4.25 million. Affeldt is the top lefty available after finishing with a 2.70 ERA in 63 1/3 innings in the regular season and another 10 1/3 scoreless innings in the postseason. He figures to command at least a two-year, $12 million deal, and it’s quite possible he’ll get offers for three years.

…

43. Melky Cabrera (OF Giants — Age 28): Given the chance to bring Cabrera back from his 50-game PED suspension for the NLCS and World Series, the Giants declined and then ended up going all of the way with Gregor Blanco in left field. It’s ludicrous to think that steroids turned Cabrera from a fourth outfielder into a .346 hitter — if they worked that well, everyone would still be trying to beat the system — but then Cabrera never figured to remain a .346 hitter anyway. The team that signs him will probably be hoping that he turns in a season like his 2011, when he hit .305/.339/.470 for the Royals. Still, recent speculation suggests that no one is going to be up to gambling $8- to $10-million on it.

channelclemente

What is likely to be Willinghams fate in the NL West? His hotzone analysis.

If Brown had torn up AA, Giants might feel more secure eventually handing the keys to him.

Anti-Lasorda

That is some ugly budget in LA… $212M and not enough starting pitching. Ned’s going to be busy….. of Gruber, Kasten, Magic & Co have to be looking at $250M…

That payroll number makes the Yankees blush, as Cashman is reported looking to lean-up and prepare life for No Mo and maybe No Cap’n….

Anti-Lasorda

Footy,

Brown’s July and August were purty darn good after his slow start. I still see them planning on giving the keys to the young man. He just needs one last session of Driver Ed before he get the Ferrari….

channelclemente

Anti,

I would be happy as a clam if they stood pat, and developed these guys. Although a Lincecum-Zito duet for 162 games may be a bridge too far. After this years innings load, IMO, they are going to have to have some starter help to skip a few turns in the rotation, or it’s likely to be another dead arm August. At the very least innings are going to have to be watched very closely, which implies some long relief help/or development.

Anti-Lasorda

Just for Footy and PacMan….

This from Jerry Crasnick @ ESPN.

Two respondents characterized the Giants as a prime “darkhorse” candidate for Hamilton, given that Angel Pagan is a free agent, Melky Cabrera won’t return, and the Giants could opt to non-tender Hunter Pence rather than pay him $12 million-plus in salary arbitration.

That should really be for Lefty. She smitten. But I think she’s really smitten for Pagan. I hope her husband is wise enough to never take her to Puerto Rico.

I know it though. Giant have all sorts of options. What fun for Sabean and brass.

—

As for starter help: throw a bone to guys like Scott Feldman and Kevin Correia. They’ve both started, they’ve both relieved. Perfect swing man candidates. Sabean will dumpster dive also. There’s bound to be some Hacker’s and Petit’s out there, or a Travis Blackley. Maybe a Ryan Vogelsong.

Anti-Lasorda

How bad must Haren’s medical be for the Cubs to back out on THAT deal?

Maybe Edwin Jackson for that help channel?

Keep’n It Real

My $0.02

* I think they sign Pence to a 3 year deal to make him more budget friendly. Sabean has coveted him to long to let him go.

* No QO on Pagan? I like Lefty’s theory, but I just don’t think THEY think he’s worth the $$$ that Pagan/agent feel he is. Pagan was floundering in NY and the Giants bring him in here and make him a Champion. Hopefully there’s a lot of postering going on (including his wife’s tweet) and an amicle deal comes out of this. I think he wants to play CF…and he is the #3 CF in FA…so hopefully a few corner fielding offers gets him back to SF.

* Scutaro = done.

* Affeldt = he tweeted something about security not being about just money, so give him a multi-year and let’s keep the bullpen intact.

pps. Is it a fact that Haren’s injured – or was it Marmol’s trade restrictions that shut that down? He is 32, and one year past a string of solid seasons with the A’s-Snakes-Angels – could be a solid 5th starter for a couple more years.

channelclemente

Anti,

you know the funny thing, his windfall was created because Bochy put him at leadoff and he played in front of SF fans. Some other goofus manager will dump in the 2,3,or5 hole and Angel will grow horns and be the whining pain in the arse he was with the Mets, especially if the boo birds come out. I wonder if Pagan is introspective enough to know where his stars lay?

Keep’n It Real

I know someone brought this up already, but how about Dallas Braden? He could take Mota’s long relief role, while he works back to become a starter. It would add insurance if Timmy/Vogey/Zito somehow leave or get hurt.

I would think working with Righetti and staying in the bay area would be enticing. the price would probably be right too.

Matthew

Footy, Footy, Footy…. Feldman and Correia are fire starters…. Step away from the K Mart bargain bin of used up pitchers.

I am lock step with KIR… The interesting thing will be whether Mr. And Mrs. pagan have a quiet conversation about how good it is in SF. sure, he can get some more money elsewhere, but he has NEVER approached this kind of success and popularity, and won’t elsewhwere either. now, he may well decide to go elsewhere in the end, but he would be sadly slapped with reality, methinks.

Foothills Ryan

Definitely throw Dallas Braden a bone.

Seems like speculation on Haren’s injury. I recall speculating on Bumgarner having an injury to account for his velocity loss.

What do I know? What do they know?

Anti-Lasorda

Channel,

That’s not a bet I am willing to make. In the sports world… too often money is the guiding principle….

Every now aqnd then you get a suprise, like Weaver or Kirk Reuter back in the day. I just wouldn’t bank or plan on it.

Anti-Lasorda

Braden would make a lot of sense too given the fact they will give Timm-eh at least 5 starts to right the ship. If you stretch it to 10 that could give Braden just the right time frame to be ready.

Blackley would have been perfect given what we saw in Oakland, but I don’t even think Raghetti completely understood what he had found. Of course Travis gets a WS ring for the effort. He should wear that in THAT clubhouse. Now that Billy has his hooks into him, and to make Sabean rue trying to sneak Travis by on waivers, there is ZERO chance Billy let’s Travis go.

Anti-Lasorda

Only downside to a Braden signing is if you bring Wheezy back they’ll demanding a Thai Masseuese and then who knows what happens in the training room……

Foothills Ryan

When they say a player was released, it will have a whole ‘nother meaning.

Foothills Ryan

Matthew

You’ve been watching too many classic Drew Barrymore movies.

Didn’t you see the Ryan Vogelsong story on Lifetime?

Keep’n It Real

“Only downside to a Braden signing is if you bring Wheezy back they’ll demanding a Thai Masseuese and then who knows what happens in the training room……”

Am I missing something? I saw a mention of Braden and Wilson in the past, but I have no read anything to understand the “inside joke” that I seem to be missing.

Matthew

.. Mo of a John Barrymore guy, I think? Doesn’t she sell ProActiv these days?

ClutchUp

Keep’n It Real says: Am I missing something? I saw a mention of Braden and Wilson in the past, but I have no read anything to understand the “inside joke” that I seem to be missing.

I don’t think the Giants mind giving Hunter 12 mil for 1 yr to 90-110RBI’s. this is the same team who gave Rowand 15mil to leave in 2011 and 2012.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

stickman says: November 5th, 2012 at 9:56 am 612..Anti: “Willingham is powerless at ATT”. First off, why the H. do you call it ATT? That’s corporate line all the way. We should call it Willie Mays Field and starting soonest while he is still with us. Eff all the corporate kissups. Broadcasting talking heads need to toe the party line and that’s ok with me, but we fans should do it right. Enron Field, anyone?

* Ted Robinson calls it Pac Bell Park because that’s what it was called when it Opened and PacBell is who helped get it off the ground along with Ralphie Barbieri

* I’ve written letters to Staci Slaughter about retiring #22′s number and also naming the field WMField especially BEFORE he “leaves” us.

* Both suggestions were met with return emails but here we still stand. Will’s not in the HOF which is SFGiants current criteria. An exception needs to be made, and its not an exception in my eyes or Anti’s. Bonds’ Built Pac Bell but Say Hey is his godfather and I bet he would be thrilled.

Foothills Ryan

AT&T still sounds a heck of a lot better than BALCO Field Station.

Anti-Lasorda

KIR,

Post 2010, Wheezy and Braden were travelling Buddies through Thailand. Wheezy told the story on George Lopez back then. The two are ‘close friends’. Braden famously lives with his mother in Stockton. Niether has had any public ‘belle’ to their balls….

Not to go all T.O., but if it smells like a duck….

Personally I don’t gives a rat booty. Braden would be a great swingman (instrictly a baseball snese) to replace what Blackley was supposed to be. Wheezy, if he is willing to work on the contract into the $3-4M range + incentives is a good risk for bullpen help. I wouldn’t count on Wilson being mush more than in Casillia’s role for now, but if he is Wheezy of old what a problem to have.

Afterall… ~YMMV.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

The photo of the guy throwing the barricade threw the windshield is clear as day. Alcohol and other substances do many things to many people. That particular moronic clown is toast.

Yeah, thanks Clutch, I forgot the two even roomed together during ST in 2011….

Keep’n It Real

@A-L

I’ve seen pictures of Wilson with good looking ladies. Actually there were rumors of him and the blonde gal on ESPN (now with FOX) in 2010.

Anyway…from a baseball standpoint, Braden wouldn’t be a bad risk.

Keep’n It Real

ClutchUp-

I was thinking…is there an award named after #24? I couldn’t think of any and it seems weird that Aaron has one (Buster and Cabrera won this year) and Willie Mays doesn’t. Re-naming the field is one thing, but what has MLB done to honor the greatest of all time??

The reason Pagan was not given a qualifying offer is that the player has 7 days to accept of decline the offer. This gives the player the ability to quickly find out what his market is. Maybe the Giants knew his market isn’t what the experts think it is , and didn’t want to give Pagan 13.3 mil when they view him as a 7-9 mil a year player, and have Pagan accept the QO.

channelclemente

I think Sam has about the right take on the plan in the Giants front office, negotiation 101, establish value first.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

Keep’n It Real says: November 5th, 2012 at 12:59 pm 655..ClutchUp-I was thinking…is there an award named after #24? I couldn’t think of any and it seems weird that Aaron has one (Buster and Cabrera won this year) and Willie Mays doesn’t. Re-naming the field is one thing, but what has MLB done to honor the greatest of all time??

KIR: You may be on to something. There is an Aaron and Clemente award but doubtful that 24 has one. A long long long time ago Bowie Kuhn decided punish 24 and 7 for working for casinos and he banned both from baseball…

Baseball has this weird old school belief that the opinions of one person or in the HOF’s case -many- Hall of Famers already in – should determine the future entrance of the PED guys or Rose etc. Those oldtimers said they’d stay away from the luncheon. Okay, stay away.

The HOF is a museum that houses many with sketchy backgrounds: Commission Mountain Landis was a racist and way back in the day many thought Cobb had killed somebody that had jumped him (but nobody died) Also this will be the same HOF that AH Bud Selig will enter. Enough said.

Nothing like chemistry, synergy, one rope 25 guys or at one point in time 37 guys, one heartbeat, No 25 cabs. The 2012 T.E.A.M. hung out with each other as much as the 2010 guys did. 2010 brought us #17 who booted the very first ground ball in ST 2010 which all the scribes wrote about. He had the thong to break out of his personal slump in Sept of ’10 and the predicted 20 wins (20-10) came true. Early in 2010 before Burrell, Ross, Guillen (cough) Lopez, Ramirez and Renteria getting healthy -17- did his thing. Then came the unexplainable magic with Ross and Rento being various series MVP’s. 2012 brought equivalent magic. Posey’s GSalami off the Latos name on the facade, with the Cincy catcher doing the BEST “oh no” body language …. Zito, Vogey, Cain, Bum and Timmy – Scoots CS MVP and KungFooPanda doing the MVP honors for the WS.

Remember the 7 hours spent on the tarmac thinking they were headed to DC, having ONLY enough gas for DC and then returned home in the wee hours only to lay an egg vs. the Cards? Then…Lance Lynn thought he was at the County Fair throwing baseballs off of a base rather then into his SS’s glove and so on and so on.

Many, many of you were right. “Can’t Right this Stuff”….there WILL be new books written – wonder what the various book titles will be?

13.3 for a year of Pagan sounds pretty good to me. Buying another year for Brown’s development without getting saddled with the back end of a deal for a guy that could seriously regress in years 3&4.

And that part about assuming the player will figure out his market value in a week is iffy also.

The market is capricious right now. Some baseball people say Pagan will get 5/60. Some say 3/24. Split it down the middle. 3/30 with an option and buyout.

Coco Crisp will be making 8 mil this year. Chris Young @ 10.2. These factor into the equation.

Some dominoes should start to fall pretty soon. Big Papi inked. Peralta with the Rays.

Foothills Ryan

All the lists are pretty consistent about Pagan and Scutaro resigning.

KezarMike

Except for just a couple or so ballparks, pretty much every team takes advantage of selling their stadium name for corporate bucks. When the new park was being built, I thought how cool it would be to name it after San Francisco’s two greatest baseball legends “Mays-Dimaggio Park.” In today’s environment though, I don’t begrudge the team getting as much moolah as they can to compete for the players we all want them to sign.

channelclemente

Not baseball, but a video from the Bay Area of 24 hrs in timelapse from Mt. Tam in Marin County. There aren’t many places where people live that are that beautiful. The video, is reported to have gone viral.

No one would have ever seen Prince in Motwon for example, or Albert in Anahiem or Beltran in St. Louis.

At this point last year, Albert was goin to be a Cardinal, Prince a Cub and Beltran a Red Sox.

Anti-Lasorda

Oh I I forgot, Cepedes was going to Miami….

Foothills Ryan

So you’re saying Hamilton will be a Giant !

channelclemente

Foothills,

I think that he’s 6’2″ is as far as I’d take that hypothesis.

Foothills Ryan

Pagan & Scutaro to the Dodgers !!

Keep’n It Real

@Foothills

You just got placed in the Giants Extra “penalty box” for that last one

Anti-Lasorda

Channel it’s been a year.

Rays need OF have nice pitching.

We like pitching…

Hellickson for Belt straight up?

And just for fun….

Shields for Panda?

Inquiring minds want to know.

vamos_SFG!

Every time I read of the possibility that Josh Hamilton may be a Giant I cringe. Any Giants follower knows this can’t and won’t be. Ever.

Much like I could foresee Prince Fielder and Manny Ramirez would not be considered for acquisitions. They do not fit the clubhouse, and are top rivals. Well, I’ll concede somehow Mota became a Giant. And a pretty good one. Huh.

But let’s not forget, Hamilton’s obsessive complaining about how AT&T Park could allow people to openly ‘smoke’ in the OF bleachers and he could smell the “trees”. And the incident he claimed his wife was spat upon by a Giants fan.

Oh yeah, there’s his health, and medical/personal record. And him wanting $175M. His 2012 season sure didn’t do much to help his contract numbers.

No way the Giants want to sign him. And no way does Hamilton want to sign with the Giants. Not happening. That’s my opinion anyways.

If Alex Gordon could get got, we should. But, hey, if Giancarlo Stanton or Jose Bautista could we should too. If it would take Lincecum to get one of them? Gosh, I don’t know. I do NOT want Tim gone, but IF he expresses to the Giants that he won’t re-sign and wants to test free-agency after 2013, you just might have to think about it.

Foothills Ryan

(from the penalty box)

I like this Vamos cat! Great spirit. Fun ideas. Makes a great sub while I’m in the box. Hopefully I don’t get Wally Pipped.

Foothills Ryan

Yankees claim Whitey. Not Ford or Herzog.

John Heyman says Giants will tender Pence. But you should read the twitter comments.

All the Yankees need now is Orlando Cabrera and Miguel Tejada, and they can trot out the 2011 Giants!

Good luck to Eli Whitehair!

channelclemente

Anti,

as I’m sure you know, it all depends on which Sandoval shows up. Hellickson would simply not be enough, IMO..

channelclemente

Foothills,

now you know who posts over at Baggarly’s joint. From what I hear, Heyman should look a little closer at the Giants’ moneyball credentials.

channelclemente

Alex Gordon would be a perfect fit here, IMO. KC will never be able to hold him, and they know it.

Lefty

Wow, the Yankees have Eli AND Stewart. And Russell Martin is a free agent. How wild would it be if the mighty Yankees rolled out the same catching duo we had in 2011 AFTER Buster was injured?!

Won’t happen–Yanks will re-sign Martin or get someone new. Whitey and Stew will be fighting for the backup job. If they pick Whitey, can we have Stew back? Trade Hector and make Stew Lincecum’s personal catcher again!

I don’t think the Giants will go after Hamilton, nor do I really want them to. It’s fun to daydream about him batting third ahead of Buster (two MVPs to go with our two Cy Youngs!), but I agree with everyone else about the risk, the money, the chemistry, etc., etc.

Most of all, it’s just not the Giants’ Way to do that, and 2012, if nothing else, proved that the Giants’ Way can be pretty darn successful.

Foothills Ryan

Dayton Moore loves doing business with Sabean.

channelclemente

Dayton Moore can’t tie his shoes.

Foothills Ryan

CC,

so who are you trading to get Gordon? Bumgarner?

http://nada paul in p.v.

Poor Stewart – must be wondering what he has to do to keep a job…

Anti-Lasorda

I wouldn’t mind Stew coming back to caddy for Timmy next season. Then you can trade Hector Sanchez for Alex Gordon…..throw in Nick Noonan too so everyone on this board can stop mentioning having an MLB future.

39. Melky Cabrera, OF. As time goes by, perhaps the shenanigans will be less remembered. Everyone thinks a one-year deal is right, but don’t be shocked if someone steps up for two. Expert: $6 million, 1 year. Me: $8 million, 1 year

CB the DodgerH8ter

Whiteside and Stewart had trouble catching the breaking ball in 2011. Sanchez is a huge upgrade over either of them.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

Foothills Ryan says: November 5th, 2012 at 3:01 pm 676..(from the penalty box) I like this Vamos cat! Great spirit. Fun ideas. Makes a great sub while I’m in the box. Hopefully I don’t get Wally Pipped.

You mean after you called him out for trolling?

channelclemente

Foothills,

Brown from AAA maybe and Affeldt for Gordon.

http://www.jobuoutdoors.com/ ClutchUp

Anti-Lasorda says: November 5th, 2012 at 2:45 pm 640..Channel it’s been a year.Rays need OF have nice pitching. We like pitching…
Hellickson for Belt straight up? And just for fun…. Shields for Panda?
Inquiring minds want to know.

Anti! WoW that would mean Evans is getting ready to replace Sabes and Decker/Wotus for BB15. I’m giving you the Hot Stove Award for intrigue. Evan Longoria stays at one corner at 48 moves to the first corner and BB9 gets to play for Joe Maddon.

I’m now aware that the scrape you got at the game that day is completely healed and that Little Anti is throwing the crud out of his three finger change up grip!

Well done!

Foothills Ryan

Is that a sign and trade on Affeldt? It’s all about the cap space.

But I’d trade Brown for a controllable known quality.

channelclemente

Foothills,

what’s the term that’s appropriate…New York Minute. Yep on Affeldt to establish value.

Foothills Ryan

Belt for Hellickson.

Gary Brown and Kyle Crick for Alex Gordon.

Lincecum and Sandoval for Kyle Seager and James Paxton.

Posey to 1st base.

Sign Josh Hamilton and BJ Upton.

Facelift ! Lift – off !! Woot – woot !!!

Big

Sabean’s or his own?

stickman

All this talk about starter acquisitions may become moot with the development of Chris Heston and his standout record at Richmond this just past season. Book is that he projects as a middle of rotation ML starter. No power pitcher, he does have four pitches all of which he controls extremely well, as a quick look at his BB/IP record will tell you.

With a rejuvenated Barry Zito around to act as somewhat of a role model and fond memories of Woody throwing puffballs successfully more often than not; we could be looking at the promotion of Heston at some date in May if Timmy’s volte face from ace starter to anywhere, any time Uber reliever continues through his first 5-10 starts next season. Heston could also get an early call to start out gradually as a swingman.

With the PCL looking more and more like the elephant’s graveyard for washed up or never quite could make it ML starters, the AA Eastern League has more and more become the proving grounds for upcoming hurlers. Much like Eric Surkamp the year before, Heston was one of the top starters in that pitching-rich league.

It would be nice to get some input on how Surkamp is coming along after his season-ending surgery. With a pair of well better than average soft-tossing rotation prospects, one of them would project as prime trade-bait. I see trades and internal development as a more sure road to success than F.A. signings, particularly on some highly disruptive force such as Hamilton or even a two years too late type like Bourn.

channelclemente

Foothills,

quit sniffing the ACN.

channelclemente

Stick,

those are some very interesting musings. Any data (FIP, xFIP, WHIP, etc. data)

Anti-Lasorda

Channel,

That’s a reversal… last season we had no problems with a Hellickson for Belt swap, now you want more.

Is that because your evaluation of Belt is higher OR your evaluation of Hellickson has declined?

Both still have 4 years of team control, and look like potenial All-Stars.

Just trying to get your lay of the land.

I would STRONGLY consider the Panda for Shields angle. I know it has aboslutely no chance in Hades of happening (I don’t think the marketing department could stop all the MVP Panda hats they are ordering of course they could throw them in the deal for Tampa for an extra low level prospect) but I don’t think Panda is going to ever be 2011 guy we want him to be ever again. Shields is very high quality, durable, low cost starter to cover Timmy’s transition and solidifies the rotation back to ROCK solid for the next two seasons.

I hope I am wrong, I hope Panda doesn’t eat his wieght to three Bills before he hits the gym in January. To me we still have the long term problem we all discussed last offseason. Belt is becoming a ball player. He will break out in 2012 IMO. Posey is the MVP. Eventually Panda, with age or girth or both will be unable to field 3B. All three would logically like to be 1B. I think Posey, the face of the franchise, could do and should do 3B long term allowing Belt to stay at 1B. But then where does the Kung Fu go? Out on the Road like Kane?

I’m just trying to think out of the box….a little..

Clutch. It’s not a both situation. You either trade Panda for Shields or Belt for Hellickson. Channel wants Hellickson and another prospect… I’ll have to do my Rays homework but it’ll be a low level arm. They have tons and I’m sure Tidrow is eyeing a few with envy….

channelclemente

Foothills others,

what makes Gordon so damn valuable is his plate coverage. He could dominate in the NL. He’s Scutaro with power.

Belt is on the cusp or moving to the next level, last year he was a question mark.. Besides, I’ve looked at the Rays minor league system, they don’t need Hellickson, they do need Belt.

vamos_SFG!

I wouldn’t be too surprised if the Yankees go after AJ Piersyncsykcsrky(sp?) as their front backstop. A Giants trifecta!

Penalty box references… LOL. During the 2012 WS, I couldn’t help thinking about the NHL player, who was it? Bobby Orr? The “____ hat trick” of one goal, one assist, one fighting major. I want to coin the baseball term “Sandoval Cycle”. Three homers in 3 AB’s. Or, more fitting for a 4-AB “cycle” in baseball, 3 HR’s and a 1.000 AVG/OBP for 4 AB’s.

WHAT?? Seriously? Why do all the pundits and experts and analysts claim Pence will make a $3M+ raise in arbitration in his worst career season? I’ve gotta figure it comes down to what number the Giants write if they go to arb. It is one of the two numbers, it isn’t a negotiation.

If the Giants write a number like $8.4M (which is BARELY above the -20% margin), Pence probably gets HIS number. But a salary like $9.8M to $11.2M oughtta get approved by the arbitration board. Right?

Curious who our 3rd catcher will be for 2013. Jackson Williams just doesn’t seem right in my eyes. In an emergency, are they sending a message Susac could be called upon?

I don’t understand why all the talking heads give more respect to Upton than Pagan. Upton is always described as “he’s just about to break-through”. Pagan, for the 2012 season, absolutely got it done. Period. What happened to the value of a WS Champion’s “experience” being a worthwhile “intangible”?

Yeah, Alex Gordon, that would be sick. I keep thinking if we can re-sign Pagan (and obviously keep Blanco as our 4th OF), once Brown is up we’d have 3 CF’ers available. IF Panik comes up in 2013, with Crawford, we’d have 2 SS’s and a third in Arias available. I love this depth. But Gordon would be an amazing fit here in SF, I agree.

It makes me sick to think back to spring 2011, when we signed Miggy and had no backup plan at shortstop and no backup plan at 2B with Freddy there. That killed us. Depth and bench moving forward looks great.

Somehow, I think Scutaro may not re-sign. Let’s remember, it “seems” the Giants front office lacks respect for this middle infield spot. Uh, can I remind: Winn, Lewis, Frandsen, Downs, Burriss, Bowker, Hall, Fontenot, Theriot, DeRosa. This past history of off-handed-ness helps convince me Panik will get a shot to open the season at 2B. Unless a 2-yr deal for around $8M/$6.5M signs Scutaro w/a 3rd year option of maybe $4M-ish AND he WANTS to retire as a Giant.

channelclemente

Anti, on Shields, they have to move him anyway, he’s on schedule to get expensive in 2014.

Anti-Lasorda

Gordie How Hat Trick…

A Fight, A goal and an assit…

Hell, easy to forget, only played in the NHL from 1948 to 1971 years.

Only scored 801 goals #2 all time behind Gretzky.

Would be like calling Lou Gehrig the Iron Mule, or something like that….

Anti-Lasorda

Damn, it’s Gordie Howe. I hat this damn phone!

ClutchUp

VamosSFG!

They had a plan, Crawford was ready defensively, just ask the pitchers and Keppinger came over once Freddy was def. done. Keppinger wowed so many on here as well as nutzo Salty in Clovis aka Baltimore Dave that they wanted him back this year EVEN to play the Leftside of the infiedl gasp. Kepp found six weeks where he hit every 0-0 up the middle for a single but had less range than a now 40 yr old Jeff Kent. Once the league figured Kepp out he finished something like 6 for 65. Crawford’s starting pitchers told Kuip that 35 should play SS regularly but we had to tap the Miggy and Ocab gasoline fuel reserves. Thank god Tejada revolted when Flannery gave him that “who me” sacrifice sign. Ocab’s lucky charm of playing with 5-6 playoff teams in a row could not be juju’d into once again and Rowand thank god started chirping too much while standing at the railing.

Scutaro signs for sure. Then Pagan but can’t prove it. Affeldt may go somewhere else, maybe Seattle. Joe Panik is not ready. The Riot and Scoots will fort down the hold until JP is ready. I like the other 2bman in their system also Ryan Cavan.

CC@703: I’m not much on depth research, data mining, etc. So if you feel a need for further info on Heston and Surkamp, you’ve got a bit of research ahead of you. All i know for sure is that both of these guys were dominant in a pitching dominant league, one drawn up in the main from top prospects
of the Eastern divisions of both leagues. Scouting reports on these two from other organizations would make for intriguing reads.

Foothills Ryan

If I’m sniffing ACN,

would that be Acetonitrile? It’s in the lab, but corked.

Anything but the Cl2 that ripped me apart.

—

Why can’t Gordon hit pitches down the middle as well as he does the corner pitches? What’s wrong with him

Anti-Lasorda

Affeldt still lives outside Denver….. just sayin’….

vamos_SFG!

Sorry, yeah Gordie Howe Hat Trick. Haven’t followed hockey for a few years now.

I want to see if Romo can bring a curveball with him to spring training 2013. If he gets this pitch from Zito and Affeldt, wow… Just imagine that. We thought Wilson’s new toy, the two-seamer was nasty in 2011… Or Lincecum picking up Cain’s cutter just in time to re-vamp his 2010 season (in August 2010) and make for a post-season/WS run…

Heston and Surkamp project as 4th 5th guys. Not much trade value until they put it together in the bigs. Kind of Tommy Milone-ish. Can be packaged. Too bad they waited so long on Surkamps surgery. Valuable time lost. Maybe 2014.

ClutchUp

Lets see …. 48 gets to pie Ms. Sire after/during an interview and during the WS celebration gets to spray Mrs. Vogey.

I thought I had read they lived in CO from his Rockies Days but I must have been cornfoosed. Maybe that was Scoots…

ClutchUp

vamos_SFG! says: I want to see if Romo can bring a curveball with him to spring training 2013.

VamosSFG: Tough to throw a curve from Romo’s release point without telling the hitter “Here it Comes”. Different pressure point on the baseball seams. He’s gotta be a 2/4 seamer FB guy along with his main course slider.

vamos_SFG!

I’ve always been curious on this one thing.

Didn’t Lincecum have a knuckleball in college and when he was drafted? I wonder if he’s ever thrown a single one in MLB. Would be interested to know if he’s ever played with it in the past few years. Maybe a question for a beat writer or SF Giants media type?

2holehitting

If you guys want an outfielder package something for Giancarlo Stanton. That guy is a legit 30 + home runs anywhere.

2holehitting

In fact I would try to package something like sandoval sanchez a minor leaguer or 2 and Timmy with some salary thrown in for Longoria and Stanton

vamos_SFG!

We can dream about Stanton in orange & black, but I don’t know how this trade could ever be accomplished. Crick, Hembree, Duvall? Ouch. Brown, Duvall, Heston, and Hector Sanchez? Ouch.

But hey, Stanton could possibly record a splash hit into McCovey Cove…
From a game played in Colorado. Dude has more power than the sun.

Sam

Stanton would cost you Bum and 3 prospects minimum. The Giants don’t have those prospects to deal.

Myth Romeney

twoholehitting wow lets inquire if miami wants to trade their franchise stuff a guy who they say actually hit the glove at aTT @ 501. Then maybe the another team like the rayes will send us their own franchise guy in evan longoria….wow one nl team and an al team. then we”ll trade the 2012 WS mvp a two time Cy young winner, the best backup catcher in the NL – two or four minor leaguers and sabean will be all set. All set to be released from his current job by the investors. Giants dugout stores could back up the dumpsters for eeerything Panda and Lincecum – At least Sonia H would be happy.

Who could be a “more realistic Giants’ trade acquisition” (uh, in context, although neither is really realistic)?

Braun or Stanton?

vamos_SFG!

McCutchen won NL outstanding player of the year voted on by the players. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 3.

Yeah well, J-Roll and CarGo won gold gloves. I still can’t get over this. I finally have come to the conclusion that MLB managers must spend all of about 1.75 minutes filling out their Gold Glove survey forms.

Players voting for Cutch? Huh. Maybe this is the case of “hey, at least a Pirates player can win SOMETHING”. We should go after him, and help let the Pirates press the “reset” button once again.

2holehitting

Just sayin, Longoria had leg injury this year, Stanton is a blue chipper that they could get a trade for a 300+ hitter with 25-30HR power and an All-Star and an MVP if the WS. They get the catcher of the future they need for the pitching staff they are building and a 1 year risk on Lincicum + 1 minor leaguer. Who was that people were raving about with HR power in the minors?

Do not count anything out, Stanton is a free Agent in come 2017 and Arb eligible in 2014 , Longoria has option excersizes for what 15 and 16.

Footy got his wish. The Prodigal Son Alex(ander) Pavlovic stopped by with an action packed new thread.

Bapah

I have a Canadian $10 bill signed by Gordy Howe in 1972. We were sitting in the CN Tower in Calgary playing Backgammon and he sat down with us at the bar for over 2 hrs. Even played a couple of games. You’d never know he was that famous.

The Oracle

I’m tired of the off season already. I think Vamos and Foothills may be twins separated at birth. Hamilton isn’t going to happen, nor is anything else overly dramatic. Belt isn’t going anywhere. He’s cheap and has a big upside. They aren’t trading their top pitching prospects. Pence will be back. Sabean will make some moderate pickups. The only prominent Giant who might get traded is Sanchez, but only for a deal Sabean loves. They’re the WS champs and are going to stick to their plan, as they should.

vamos_SFG!

Stanton won’t hit an eight-figure salary until probably 2016.
He’s not even arb-eligible until 2014.

Braun is at $9.5M, $11M, and $13M the next three seasons.
Bautista is getting $14M per for 2013, 2014, and 2015.

Maybe after JoeyBats’ performance in 2012 (.241 AVG, “only” 14 2B and 27 HR in 92 games), Toronto gets the feeling that climbing back up from being last in the AL East will take 2-3 more years of re-building. And could shop JoeyBats?

We’d probably have to give up every nearly-ready MLB arm we have in our system to get Bautista, so I’d pass. Not worth Heston, Stratton, Fitzgerald, and Hembree.

But if you could send Runzler and/or Hensley instead of one. Two of the likes of Surkamp or Machi, Fleet, Dunning, Correa, etc instead of one. Well, then, yeah- just MAYBE.

I don’t want to see Brown traded for another OF’er. Our farm simply doesn’t have anyone else that projects high enough to be a front-line starter in my opinion. Not Peguero, not Parker, not Kieschnick, not Blanco. AFAIK, we’ll still need to field three in the outfield each game through 2013 and onward.

But, imagine in a late-inning defensive switch you could move Blanco into LF and Bautista from OF to 3B, that has some added value. And more available bench moves too (like Posey to 1B so H. Sanchez could pinch-hit, Arias/Blanco could pinch-run, Sandoval could be a DH in AL games).

Jose Bautista for (something like):
Runzler, Marlowe, Blackburn

and ONE position player like:
Dominguez/Adrianza/Gillaspie/Peguero.

Yeah, that would work for me. Don’t know it would work for either Sabean or AA on the other side.

vamos_SFG!

Best line-up think I can come up with that MIGHT be realistic involves yet another trade with Dayton Moore, yes for Alex Gordon. I think payroll could push him out of KC, if we offer great trade pieces. 51 doubles in KC? Gee, that would equate to like what, two-thousand million 2B’s in AT&T, right?

Gotta re-sign Pagan for CF and lead-off. Takes pressure off Brown starting the year, so he can develop until ready in Richmond. With Pagan lead-off and #3-8 so strong, I think Panik could easily see enough good pitches in the 2-spot to succeed in 2013.

You know the talking heads were calling the StL line-up “an American League type of line-up”. Yeah, well? Every off-season Sabean seems to make a ‘surprise’ move. Maybe this year it will be a young, power corner outfield bat like Gordon? One can wish anyways, one can wish.

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