Minister of Fire2.

NULL

There have been emissions controls on automobiles wince the enactment of the first lcean air act.... But i have yet to see an EPA swat team show up at a car show to confiscate 57 Chevy's.

Building codes have required tight insulation ofr years, but no EPA buldozer squad has shown up on my lawn to demolish my house.

I can go on.. but you get the idea. There are more important things in life to stress about... you'll drive yourself into the nuthouse if you get so worked up and paranoid over ever news headline.

Click to expand...

It means more than my '57 chevy,more stuff and regs with my business.Here's an example, OSHA inspection back in the 80's resulted in some $900.00 in fines. Was OSHA correct in finding us noncompliant,yes. here is the rub ,the major fines were for unguarded flywheels. The machines in question are Boston cementers,their flywheels are 1" and 2"and run with elastic bands, a two day old couldn't hurt themselves..Gov't regs out of control 30 years ago!Whose to say they may not inspect our burrnes and say "no,no too much soot"Don't worry I'll still sleep.

Minister of Fire2.

NULL

It would make at lot more sense if they made the spec at grams per 10,000 BTU input rather than a total number.
It is as silly as the EPA rules for cars and trucks using parts per million. You can have an 8 liter SUV putting out the same PPM as a little econo box with a 2 liter at the same PPM as the SUV but the SUV puts out 4 times the smog..

2 of the greatest kids in the world
Avalon Pendleton 790 1.3 cu. ft.
3 ex wives all enjoying my retirement
a shop full of manufacturing equipment being taxed to death

Minister of Fire2.

NULL

It would make at lot more sense if they made the spec at grams per 10,000 BTU input rather than a total number.
It is as silly as the EPA rules for cars and trucks using parts per million. You can have an 8 liter SUV putting out the same PPM as a little econo box with a 2 liter at the same PPM as the SUV but the SUV puts out 4 times the smog..

Click to expand...

Your right that SUVs get a big break... For a long time they had their own separate set of standards for both emissions and fuel economy. But the knee jerk reason of "no regulations ever" is no answer.

Minister of Fire2.

NULL

Could be like in California in the vallies or whereever where the is the "smoke police" who ride around and if they see smoke coming out of a chimney you get a ticket

High Valley Model 2500
Vogelzang Highlander (at the farm house)

Sooteater chimney cleaning system with 18ft of flexi rods

Forester: Clemson Graduate with a BS in Forestry in 04 and MFR in 06

1980 Chevy K10
1990 Ranger 2wd
Stihl MS390 (new aftermarket muffler with modd July 2013)
Husqvarna 445 (free, with a busted wrap handle)
One busted 6lb maul, one 8lb with head about to come off (All fiberglass mauls are now busted)
Hand me down wood maul (handle with some wear on it!! July 2013)
16x12 woodshed, i built!

Minister of Fire2.

NULL

Just imagine what would happen if they went after the trucking industry! Highways would be blocked and there would be heck to pay!

Click to expand...

I work for a major Diesel Engine Manufacturer and we constantly are coming up with new designs to meet higher and higher standards. For those of you not familiar with the heavy duty truck engines they now have to have an after treatment system and when you go to fill up with fuel you also need to fill up with liquid urea thats used to clean the after treatment system. So while your driving down the interstate high way your truck could be starting a clean cycle in your after treatment system injecting urea and cleaning the system out.

So I dont think the Heavy duty trucking Industry has gotten the easy path either.

Minister of Fire2.

NULL

Could be like in California in the vallies or whereever where the is the "smoke police" who ride around and if they see smoke coming out of a chimney you get a ticket

Click to expand...

Guess one would have to get a BKK and load it up late at night once each 24hrs... no smoke to be seen when they are driving around as no reloads in daylight?

Woodstock Progress Hybrid (2012) - Just getting warmed up...
Woodstock Fireview (2009) - Sold to a good friend
New to wood burning fall 2008, learning as fast as I can to recognize my mistakes earlier and earlier...

Minister of Fire2.

NULL

For those of you not familiar with the heavy duty truck engines they now have to have an after treatment system and when you go to fill up with fuel you also need to fill up with liquid urea thats used to clean the after treatment system.

Click to expand...

Um... is that urea what I think it is?

Woodstock Progress Hybrid (2012) - Just getting warmed up...
Woodstock Fireview (2009) - Sold to a good friend
New to wood burning fall 2008, learning as fast as I can to recognize my mistakes earlier and earlier...

Minister of Fire2.

NULL

Well its a refined product ,clear liquid doesnt have all that much smell. Dont know if its synthetic or natural product.

I am sure its related to the urea fertilizer sold as its just white small pellets.

I can ask and see where it comes from.

Okay they say it does have an ammonia smell.
And it is like the urea fertilizer but liquid.
I was intially wrong it actually is slowly injected into the exhaust path at a slow rate to help the exhaust burn cleaner.
As you can tell this isnt my department.

Minister of Fire2.

NULL

HAHA no its DEF or deisel exhaust fluid. I know its "urea" but its not urine.

High Valley Model 2500
Vogelzang Highlander (at the farm house)

Sooteater chimney cleaning system with 18ft of flexi rods

Forester: Clemson Graduate with a BS in Forestry in 04 and MFR in 06

1980 Chevy K10
1990 Ranger 2wd
Stihl MS390 (new aftermarket muffler with modd July 2013)
Husqvarna 445 (free, with a busted wrap handle)
One busted 6lb maul, one 8lb with head about to come off (All fiberglass mauls are now busted)
Hand me down wood maul (handle with some wear on it!! July 2013)
16x12 woodshed, i built!

Minister of Fire2.

NULL

Urea injection is also used in some automobile engine... I think the Mercedes bluetec system was one of the early ones if not the first. But its not recharged at every fuel fill up... more like once a year or every second oil change...

Member2.

NULL

Urea injection is also used in some automobile engine... I think the Mercedes bluetec system was one of the early ones if not the first. But its not recharged at every fuel fill up... more like once a year or every second oil change...

Member2.

NULL

I work for a major Diesel Engine Manufacturer and we constantly are coming up with new designs to meet higher and higher standards. For those of you not familiar with the heavy duty truck engines they now have to have an after treatment system and when you go to fill up with fuel you also need to fill up with liquid urea thats used to clean the after treatment system. So while your driving down the interstate high way your truck could be starting a clean cycle in your after treatment system injecting urea and cleaning the system out.

So I dont think the Heavy duty trucking Industry has gotten the easy path either.

Click to expand...

The problem I have with the new engines is that yes they are "cleaner" but they don't seem to be as fuel efficient as the older engines.
I read a great article in Progressive Farmer a couple years ago about Tier IV compliant tractors. They said the good news was they were going to be cleaner the so so news they won't be any more fuel efficient or slightly worse than the Tier III tractors.

I traded a mid size old blue tractor in on a new Tier III tractor. Three more HP than the old one and uses way more fuel than the old one. The same tractor had to be Tier IV compliant this year. I hate to think what that is like.

Minister of Fire2.

NULL

Your right that SUVs get a big break... For a long time they had their own separate set of standards for both emissions and fuel economy. But the knee jerk reason of "no regulations ever" is no answer.

Click to expand...

Never suggested none but a lets use our head and measure the real impact with units that make sense.
dave

2 of the greatest kids in the world
Avalon Pendleton 790 1.3 cu. ft.
3 ex wives all enjoying my retirement
a shop full of manufacturing equipment being taxed to death

Guest2.

NULL

Last year I was doing some reasearch for my father in law because he wanted a OWB and I found him the "Greenwood" boiler which claims that "model XXX is the only wood boiler certified in Washington state. My question is can they be used in a Stage 2 burn ban? I sent them an email and received no replies.

Click to expand...

Currently we are experiencing an inversion right now in the PNW. That means that warm air is trapping cold air under it and smoke gets trapped in the lower air layers. As a result WA state has issued burn bans at different levels in several different areas.

A WA state Stage 1 burn ban is in effect in 8 counties right now, mostly in eastern and southern WA. A Stage 1 burn ban limits burning to indoor certified wood burning devices only. All outdoor burning - including residential, agricultural and forest burning - is prohibited. Certified being WA state certified wood and pellet burning stoves, inserts, etc. Burning in uncertified devices is prohibited, with the one exception being if it's a homeowner's only source of heat. And to answer your question more specifically: A WA state Stage 2 burn ban is in effect for 4 counties in the Puget Sound area right now, including Seattle and Tacoma. Under the stage 2 burn ban, all wood (and pellet) burning indoors or outdoors is prohibited, with the one exception being if it's a homeowner's only source of heat. Violators can face fines up to $1,000.

So the Greenwood IWB is just another certified wood burning device in WA. As such, with the one exception that it is the only heating device in the house, you cannot use it (or any other wood or pellet burning device) in a Stage 2 burn ban.

Mooderator2.

NULL

Staff Member

I can see it now a tremendous growth in the private sector to build new boilers, engines, and stoves,sure .Growthin jobs at the epa, probably.I'll be honest ,a nobel cause is clean air but at a tremendous cost in the economy.Unilateral adjustments continue to make us more and more less competitive on the world market. Try slapping tariffs on products made in china or any asian country that doesn't follow these new regs and see what happens. I have no answer here but alone we are using a tsp to lower sea levels.

Click to expand...

Quite to the contrary. Selling dirty vehicles, stoves, engines hurts us in the global marketplace. Developing nations, in particular, China and India want cleaner solutions. Europe is also looking for them. We are more competitive when the products we make for the domestic market are equally marketable globally. It's another reason why we should convert off the Imperial system to metric. Only Liberia and Burma remain on this archaic standard.

PE Alderlea T6 - the gentle giant and a Jotul 602, the little stove that could“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it.” - Mark Twain -
"A poor worker always blames his tools." - Dad

Mooderator2.

NULL

Staff Member

Currently we are experiencing an inversion right now in the PNW. That means that warm air is trapping cold air under it and smoke gets trapped in the lower air layers. As a result WA state has issued burn bans at different levels in several different areas.

A WA state Stage 1 burn ban is in effect in 8 counties right now, mostly in eastern and southern WA. A Stage 1 burn ban limits burning to indoor certified wood burning devices only. All outdoor burning - including residential, agricultural and forest burning - is prohibited. Certified being WA state certified wood and pellet burning stoves, inserts, etc. Burning in uncertified devices is prohibited, with the one exception being if it's a homeowner's only source of heat. And to answer your question more specifically: A WA state Stage 2 burn ban is in effect for 4 counties in the Puget Sound area right now, including Seattle and Tacoma. Under the stage 2 burn ban, all wood (and pellet) burning indoors or outdoors is prohibited, with the one exception being if it's a homeowner's only source of heat. Violators can face fines up to $1,000.

So the Greenwood IWB is just another certified wood burning device in WA. As such, with the one exception that it is the only heating device in the house, you cannot use it (or any other wood or pellet burning device) in a Stage 2 burn ban.

Click to expand...

FYI - They lifted the stage 2 burn ban for us at 1pm yesterday. There is no burn ban for King and Kitsap. Pierce and Snohomish counties are at stage 1 currently.

PE Alderlea T6 - the gentle giant and a Jotul 602, the little stove that could“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it.” - Mark Twain -
"A poor worker always blames his tools." - Dad