"China Will Not Hesitate To Protect Iran Even With A Third World War"

Fast forward to 2:08: "It is puzzling to some that Major General Zhang Zhaozhong, a professor from the Chinese National Defense University, said China will not hesitate to protect Iran even with a third World War... Professor Xia Ming: "Zhang Zhaozhong said that not hesitating to fight a third world war would be entirely for domestic political needs...." And don't forget Russia, which recently said it is preparing to retaliate against NATO and has put radar stations on combat alert: "Russia is another ally of Iran, with similar policy to that of China. Toward Iran." Watch, and please forward the entire video, for an explanation of how China is approaching the situation not only in Iran, but a perspective of how they view the western "threat", as well as what tensions they face domestically.

In a concrete reinforced bunker about Mid America, no less than 500 miles West of the Mississippi but no further than Oklahoma / Colorado.

No less than 90 days of food and water, geo thermal HVAC and drill a well at least 30 feet for toilet use. Hydrogen generator all inclusive, you can find them online. You can run a small antenna for VHF signal to ground level and make sure your ventalation system has a 4 stage scrubber. Problem is, do you really want to live through a Thermo Nuke? What kinda of bug out warning do you think your going to get? Will your BFF and Family members be there on time before the door is locked? Finally, what would the scenery look like when you finally emerge? Stay top side and enjoy the show, SPF 200,000 sugested.

Playing cards, Medical kit, liquor, barter, guns, AM / FM with shortwave or HAM radio suggested, PM's and everything you would need to re introduce yourself to the new world once your supplies run out.

What would Jesus do? Lemmi hit him up on Facebook and ask.

Cons of surviving fallout:

Can't plant seeds. Can't eat the animals you may bag. Can't drink the water supply and NetFlix will most certainatly be down. Watch week by week how many teeth you loose as you gravel to a FEMA official begging for decontamination and a room in an internment camp.

There was a newspaper article a few days ago describing how the Syrian's had killed something like 250 young girls. Then there was the Syrian who shot people in Turkey today. Once Syria's invaded, it's on with Iran.

OK, before hyperventilation kicks into screaming gear, this guy is a PROFESSOR in the defense univ. He's part of a small crew of people with military background -- mostly professors, but a few in non-combat services closer to the real military -- that are allowed to speak in public. He's an intriguing figure. He's a loose canon, with some shit widely discredited. But his public appearances are obviously ok'd by the higher-ups, and he's shown no embarrassment whatsoever for his widely discredited shit. A common assumption is that he's part of a misinformation campaign. Regardless, he's anything but an official mouthpiece. He might be used as a conduit for some test balloon, but nothing more.

And, no, China willl not fight a war with US over Iran, no mor ethan US fighting a war with China over Taiwan. Its weight is drastically different on the scales of China and US.

Ummm... I don't think they let generals make public statements which have not been vetted. The statement may not be policy but it serves a purpose or it would not have been made. Even in China, you don't make General by mouthing off.

Russia is considering the use of bases in Cuba for its nuclear bombers, in a move that revives memories of the 1962 Cuban missile crisis, according to reports in a Russian newspaper. Russian military sources said that Moscow is contemplating using Cuba as a refuelling base for its nuclear-bomb carrying aircraft. The move would be in retaliation for the Bush administration's plan to site a missile defence shield in Europe.

Yes, and where were you when Bush signed an agreement with Canada that will allow the Canadians,and American Troops the right to pass back and forth in the same scenarios........................Is there any REAL difference in the Governments?.

Canada, and Mexico owe YOU & ME, a lot of billlions in taxes over the years for fotting their military defense bills.

Look, if MF Global shit can go unheeded, I all but guaranty that Hugo's getting salted tungsten bars with less than a micron of gold plating.

So when he bitches about the world not having any fucking gold, TPTB will just say:- we'll look into it- appoint Louis Freeh and Hank Paulson to head the investigation who shall deligate the work to 3 blind, deaf and dumb quadraplegics who shall mysteriously die in the Neveda desert upon completion of the results which disappear having been erased by Rose Mary Woods- will say, oh no, Hugo. It's youse gots no gold. We's gots all of ours.

It was only a matter of time before some kind of card showing would come from China. I would like to have a better understanding how this would fit into any future strategy against the Anglo-Saxon axis since their $1 trillion holdings should make for an awkward conversation.

As for Russia, it seems that they need to show some face now that their naval base in Tartus, Syria, is under threat by NATO, which puts their plans for transferring their Black Sea fleet and re-establishing their pre Soviet Union Mediterranean navy presence, under serious threat, especially after Assad agreed to convert the port into a permanent Middle East base for Russia’s nuclear-armed warships, with Russia's money of course.

I think that's also the reason that the US foreign policy granted so much authority to Turkey, which I'm guessing that they hope it will somehow align all the "Arab Spring" renewed governments under a controlled proxy, which will in turn be controlled by US money, something which I see as nothing but a pipe dream.

Again, that's they reason that Russia is trying so hard to gain some presence in the Mediterranean, by acquiring two gas fields in Cyprus' offshore acreage, along with its continuous and substantial investment in the area, but also with the support it shows to Greece, vis-a-vis proposals for strategic defensive alliance, now that Greece is shunned as the convenient scapegoat by the European axis. Not a completely far fetched scenario after seeing how the Greek and Russian marines were marching together during Greece's "OXI" parade, after the Russian landing craft Tsesar Kunikof, dropped anchor in the port of Alexandroupolis.

I don't know if the reason that Iran's all but imminent attack rhetoric by Israel is just a reason for the US to corner Russian dominance and diminish its influence around what's left of its former Soviet satellites, along with gaining control of the areas natural resources, or because the Anglo-Saxon banking cartel wants to take over the area's Islamic financial sector, as it would seem as a maiden or still untapped source of wealth growth generated by the massive emerging Muslim urbanity.

I can't tell for sure what's going on, since the intertwined oil and banking interests are becoming too complicated for my liking and I'd be interested in any analysis regarding SinoRussian alliances along with the forhcoming role of India and Pakistan or even Iran - Hezbollah.

It's all talk and saber rattling BS designed to scare you. The Soviets used to do the same thing, then once the reporters left the room, break out the vodka and have a drink with you. You better believe they would not risk nuclear annihilation over some mullahs in Iran.

Interesting. I do google search for info about china/iran and 2nd item on list is this zerohedge article. Under the heading is the ability to block all zerohedge.com results. None of the other links offered the ability to be blocked..........odd.

the usa mic has been spoiling for a fight all over the world lately. russia, pakistan, iran, afghanistan… so far nobody wants to give it a go. an all out nuclear-chemical-biological war would kill half the people on earth. the chinese, russian, etc., leadership have healthy cushy lives, an all-out war fcks that up big time. fear mongering and brinksmanship is just talk meant to distract the chinese, russian, whatever, peasants from the reality of their shitty lives. if i’m wrong, we’re all dead, either way I call bullshit. When you have to shoot, shoot, don’t talk. [/Tuco]

Coolant pool is a problem that 40% of US nuclear facilities share. That's what you should be panicking about (oh, and the fact that Bec****, a private company are now in charge of ALL YOUR NUKES). Hint: About 8 months ago, I printed links to who was running your decomn / nuke stuff after the Bush apparatus stripped it from real hard working scientists. You're worrying about the wrong thing, and as such, are an asset to the twats in charge.

Go decontaminate and get a clue, and come back annoyed about where you're really being fucked.

And check this out. "The result of their effort? The largest body of public knowledge about thousands of miles of tunnels dug by the Second Artillery Corps, a secretive branch of the Chinese military in charge of protecting and deploying its ballistic missiles and nuclear warheads."

Back to reality: Israel has circa 80 nukes (according to EU / IAEA), although there's been some interest in how those are held (i.e. it lacks the geographical space to seed them in classical MAD spread to prevent first strike removing them all - there's chatter that some are not held on Israeli territory as a precaution / retributive strike), India and Pakistan have similar numbers, in differing payloads and without ICBM platforms. The USA & Russia still clock up over 20k+ each. UK have about 200, China about 300 and so on.

Geopolitics: Russia is pissed off at NATO over the missile shield (yes, that NATO who took 6+ months to oust a dictator who didn't even use half the weapons we'd supplied him with); China is pissed off with / likes everyone in equal measures, India is pissed off at Pakistan (still asking about Mumbai), Pakistan is pissed off at India (because, just because), USA and Pakistan are pissed off at each other (lover scorned & all that jazz - Americans wondering why buying a whore doesn't buy loyalty), Israel is pissed off at everybody (oi, vey). Saudi & Bahrain are pissed at Egypt, NATO and Syria for ruining shit. Everyone in Dubai is pissed because the nice little racket is coming undone, and it'd be such a shame if that bastion of freedom, emotional well-being and decency that is a beacon to Capitalists everywhere got turned into glass. Syria is pissed off because no-one noticed (barring the first few weeks) that someone fucking RPG'd the president of Oman (or was it? God knows, some shitty little state down there without oil) and forced him out, and no-one has covered the story since the CIA team left for Syria, and his wife is REALLY not happy with a downgrade in shopping, and he's only killed as many people as the Saudis have (well... there's a difference between public shootings and "disappearances"). Oh, and Pakistan is supplying most of the hard-core troops to the ME arabs, which is a nice little earner, and let's not say any more about it please.

Oh, and Iran. Who doesn't have nukes. Not even an iddy-biddy little one. Most pertinent comment I've seen for a while: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is kept in power because the Americans & Western press know who he is, and report on him; if they didn't, he'd have disappeared long ago. i.e. He's only there being a crazy fool because he makes the West listen.

Oh, and Iraq? Still fucked, totally. Death toll is about 1,000,000 and no-one gives a shit because, you know, there's RISK to play.

Snark - to be honest. At this point, after 60 years of total bullshit from the region, wouldn't everyone just like some piece and quiet? For about... 2,000 years or so.

Charles Quixote Choi. (Tilting at windmills, providing illumination to all). Poynter Institute: Nelson Poynter, the owner and chairman of the St. Petersburg Times and Times Publishing Company, announced that he planned to start a small journalism school called the Modern Media Institute. (The name of the school was changed to the Poynter Institute almost a decade later.).

Get the snark?! He's an ethnically Chinese man paid by the Americans educated in a place that references the bastion of Russian Europeanism. Get it? China - USA - Russia... all in the same boat. Or as we used to say Oceania, Eurasia, Eastasia.

Why are you concerned with 1,000,000 Iraqui dead and in the same statement promote turning another sovereign nation into "glass". Those particles of glass would be partially comprised of the DNA of small children and babies!

All political leaders just want to stay in power and get rich and not lose their heads. Their well-connected friends want the same things. Makes no difference where you live or what the slogans of the regime are.

The Pentagon and their contractors need justification for their programs and costs. The sale of arms to foreign nations is a huge US export business. We send them second or third generation technology, which requires us to develop better bombs and delivery systems.

Don't get distracted by all of this. We have hot wars with lead. We have cold wars via market and currency manipulation. We have warfare by the government against the people. Isn't financial fraud an instrument of war, to enrich the few and enslave the many.

Protect yourselves with zero debt and bullion and other means to insure the survial of your family.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that there are Chinese Food Places in every little city and town all across the USA, the usual pipeline for intergrating Chinese Immigrants from the old Country to the USA.

right up until the missiles start flying and the bombs start dropping and the draft kicks in.

what do you suppose this NDAA bill is really meant for?

the sociopaths in charge don't value human life... at all, that should be apparent by now, but they do have an agenda and if millions, hundreds of millions or even billions of useless breeders die in the process of implementing that agenda, all the better from their point of view.

don't believe for a moment that the PTB's wouldn't kill us all in envisioning their Brave New World.

and war is a most effective tool for shaping the course of human events in the way one might desire...

Yes, and with the fourth largest American airline going into receivership this week:

How the fuck are you getting them there? Unicorns? Via Alaska? (Which requires invading Russia first, good luck with that one if you're wanting to avoid a nuke fest). Boats? (given the comparative strengths of navies) is one of those "Korea invades Japan" type deals.

Wish I could snap my fingers and give you 50 IQ points to at least reach the median amount in the US.

Go back to John Wayne films, your ignorance of modern geopolitics is shamefully adolescent.

Use of Weapons, you are obviously a smart fellow and have much to contribute, but being a pompous ass shaves many many points off your otherwise superior intellect. Perhaps a personal exercise program would be a good thing for you?

China has all of the US nuke weapon technology and more. Acquired during the Clinton presidency. They also have newer technology to wipe all the US carriers off the face of the ocean. The US is now dependent on China thanks to the politicians and corporations selling out technology to China. The US will and must back down if China becomes aggressive. End of story!

You mean to tell me that the Clinton Administration sold U. S. military technology to China in exchange for 1996 campaign cash!? Next, you're gonna tell me that patriot John Glenn blocked a senate investigation of that treasonous act. To quote a great president, patriot and former American now globalist, "how dare you!?"

"You mean to tell me that the Clinton Administration sold U. S. military technology to China in exchange for 1996 campaign cash!?"

If I recall, Bubba transfered authority to share the technology in question from the Defense Department to the Commerce Department which then allowed Loral Space to sell it to the Chi-Coms. Then his Commerce Secretary (Ron Brown) had an "unfortunate accident".

Or maybe, perhaps, Loral's purpose was served and no longer needed. Sometimes I think its a better use of our time (when reading the entrails of the beast) to just call it that...the guts...and be happy with its passing.

If that happens, you can pretty much kiss anything riding on telestar good bye.

In the good old days we had towers across the land that will take over when space is filled with falling junk. But now even those have been retired.

Come to think of it. One telephone exchange at the right spot, taken out; will cause half the USA to fail to connect. The other half will simply pick up the phone at once to ask WTF and create a total failure nationwide.

Wrong. Strong hint: Fibre optic can carry phone calls. You know, that thing where you get broadband, and its a.... phone line connection. Or plain copper lines, with poles. Which still exist precisely to stop this possibility. It is called "redundancy within critical systems", you muppet.

You're doing an amazing show and tell tonight darling - post after post after post of unmitigated bullshit. At this point, I'm shooting fish in a barrel, but you're just so fucking hilarious, I keep on having to answer. You're like a moreish pistachio nut of the stupid.

Explain how fibre optic.... being underground... precludes landline calls. Hint: it doesn't... it works like... a much better version of landlines, it being underground and not being metallic it is immune to EMP nukes. If you have fibre optic, you have a x1000 times as fast landline than any ancient copper phones. You also have piped internet access and so on.

Oh, and if your point is that "without power" we're fucked, then you don't know enough about access points: you can use optic to send a 911 without any power at all.

Hint: science. You need some educmacation.

Your IQ is making me feel bad for smashing the shit out of juvenile seals. Can you not at least attempt to make a decent point. I'll be kind, because so far, I feel like I'm kicking disabled children for fun.

Telephone lines make a circuit with the exchange (when you connect something). You can actually steal electricity from them if you wish, although this is illegal (at least in the UK). So you are correct in that you dont need an external power source to run a telephone.

But electrons down fiber optic? Excuse me for being an ex-particle physicist, but AFAIK phtons travel down fiberoptic cable not electrons. So to use any energy coming from the exchange down a fiber optic cable you need a device which converts the photons to electric current (a CCD) and then run a device from this current. The device would need to then convert back to light to communicate with the exhange. This is not impossible, but it would be inefficient and much more complicated. So if what you say is true there should be a significant excess energy margin in the light coming down the fibre. Interesting if true.

Any connection over fibre optics requires that an emergency call can be made through it, at all times, with loss of power to sender. The same reason applies to why carrier signals have to be dual purpose.

If you want me to point out how it is done, then I will. But don't treat me like the mushrooms above. I know how it is done, and yes, it is a global requirement.

You have just been screaming at everyone that they dont understand science, but you have not given a clear explanation of how the power is delivered down a fibre optic device such that a device at the end of it can use that power to send a call. I suggested one way. Maybe another is 'a mirror'. I am genuinely interested so I dont see the need to get defensive.

#1 if you're connecting to a fibre optic channel you already have power. TROLOLOL. (durrr.. obvious science - if your input isn't providing power, then...) [This was the irony]. If you don't have that, then... do what African nationals do. Get signal on your phone [and if you need a recharge, pedal a bit]. This is neither new nor fun.

#2 Look above: it was obvious irony. "Electrons down a fibre optic cable are the same as copper". FFS. Read the above statements of insanity over reality. Please... read the statements about "12 carriers being destroyed". Please. Then get a fucking clue.

#3 You can actually convert this to powered, but it would rely on the chemical / battery of the device you're using. Yes, it'd be a bit kinky, but you're ignoring that the person receiving this would most likely be using a battery driven construct. It is possible, but it requires a small convertor on your part.

#4 A hand driven torch (available: everywhere) would provide you with enough energy to get a fibre optic cable link going. Yep, one of those cool torches. Conversion: your problem (but obviously a battery between torch <-> computer). Fibre takes that little energy. Wait... powering up said computer takes energy? OH> LOLOLOL. (On the off side, you can power a phone to a fibre connection to text without any hassles at all).

Oh, and really? Tell me how fibre optic links between businesses work then please? Esp. African ones. Hint: They POWER DA COMPUTA. OR THEY JUST POWA DA CONNECTION.

Hint: Not everyone goes to pieces when their power goes "out". I was mocking the idiocy of the poster so enamoured of their civilisation that they were unable to make sensible choices.

"OH NOES - THE STATE DOES NOT PROVIDE FREE CONNECTION BUT I HATE IT ALL THE TIME AND I WANT IT GONE".

It was a critique of stupid libertarians, nothing more. I'm well able to provide solutions that doesn't require a nation state. Hint: about 1 billion people are using mobile phones without this "first world problem" stopping them communicating.

Why the hell are we conversing with this rude idiot troll... No electricity and fiber optic and copper lines still work WTF... "if your hooked up you must have power or pedal your african bike" Use of weapons does not include brain cells, epic fail, retard, lead paint eating moron..

You sir are an infantile egomaniac, and your inability to engage in civil discourse is only eclipsed by your arrogance. Do you feel so poorly about yourself that you feel it necessary to try and make others feel worse? How sad. You're the guy at a party that everyone talks about and later asks, "who was that asshole?"

It is called a battery. Cheap, solar powered, economically viable and able to power a hand set coupled to a fibre optic channel. Every home has them, and every device (phone) attached to a fibre optic channel has them (by law) and the small current (AA x2) they provide is enough to power a call to the relevant emergency services.

We can delve into 'nuclear batteries' *that exist, and cause problems in the ex-USSR" or we could just leave it here.

I enjoy your input. Even if I've chewed you out once. We'll not go into battery (purely physical "wind up" conversion of energy into stored elec) allowing me to power a small array in the wilds of no-where, since I just chewed out two people who should know better about it. See earlier - I was trolling people so that the obvious answer would make them aware of how tenuous their connectivity is/

The argument was over whether "without power" [state supplied] would necessarily mean that the transition from analog [copper wire phones] to digital [fibre optic without power] would result in being "fucked" if an emergency happened and the State supplied power grid went out. Batteries are important.

Now, yes - if this was universal, then a whole lot of stuff would go out. But satellites would not: that's the point of them. Cell towers aren't powered (hmm - most aren't hardened the linch pin ones are though, they're hard-wired, and there's a sub-set that are nuclear powered).

So, humm, If shit came to fan, I know that with a decent battery and antenna I could hit a geosynchronous sat. from another country. I also know that there's about 50+ militarised sats up there from 1950's onwards, whose only purpose is to fuck up the global communications. Bottom line: as ever, if humans really wanted to shit things up..... they could. That's why they spent $500,000,000 doing so.

p.s.

Don't be a pussy and delete comments: stand up for what you think. Eh. Kinda sad you deleted all that stuff about towers and all... and I wasn't even going to chew you over.

Nope, it wouldn't empy our prison system. It would just create MORE incentive to lock people up. Building weapons of war with the free labor of inmates is only one step from what you're proposing, and guess what, we are already doing that. Ergo, make more laws, get more people in prison. If you are chosen to go to war, you will be "free"... of tertiary expenses to the government.

I have a feeling that debt is probably preferable to war. Especially if we retrained ourselves to not use debt as life support.

It's stupid for Chinese to threaten publically, seems like a loose cannon. If China waits a little longer the US will be further weakened economically. China should be well aware,the way to win a war with a super power is to take away their super power status and reduce their importance. Once the US is weakened enough China can control the US.

...and if you ask people if they thought we were on the verge of WWIII, the vast majority would say 'what'? Maybe even say, 'are you drinking'?

Imperial monetarism is running amok as it is failing.

Impeach Obama

Glass-Steagall

American Credit System

Those three things will allow us to avoid WWIII AND a new dark age.

It says alot when Russia is sending the strongest of it's navy to Syria.

It says alot when we bomb for 1-2 hours, with them radioing us, and it's clearly marked on all U.S. maps, two Pakistani outposts whose constituency just finished some war games with the Chinese earlier in the day.

We still are playing the Keynesian vs Austrian debate, instead of questioning monetarism as a whole. Since both (and others) are merely schools OF MONETARISM, an oligarchical principle.

People need to wake up. All of this is unneeded and keeping us from engaging in the projects that will ensure the human race survives. Instead of even doing those things, we're needlessly pushing both economic and thermonuclear Armageddon.

This shit ain't hard, once you peel back the bullshit....and the above marks only a FEW of the obvious events pointing to both nuclear war, and an economic breakdown crisis worse than anything in the history of the world. Including the economic mess preceding the bubonic plague in Europe (and why it hit so hard). Like a person with AIDS, when your body is weak, any otherwise minor disease can kill you.

The depopulation idiots are perhaps about to get their wish, except they will be included in the culling. Completely unnecessary, and only idiots spouting mindless sophistry believe otherwise.

existential threat justifies all manner of
stealing and enslavement. even morons can get the better
of wisemen this way, just by summoning the fear card.
one must be fearless to survive today.
it must be as old as dirt, this technique. the " banker
and quisling security act " it should be called! s 1867.
wiki
"Quisling (Norwegian pronunciation: [?k??s?l??]; English: /?kw?zl??/) is a term used in reference to fascist and collaborationist political parties and military and paramilitary forces in occupied Allied countries which collaborated with Axis occupiers in World War II, as well as for their members and other collaborators."
.
g. null interview with christopher anders
notice minute 30 also. general explains policy coup.
ushering in the death of this country from within. pnac.
Wednesday November 30 12:00pmhttp://archive.wbai.org/
.
The McCain-Levin End of America Act
Chris Anders on military custody for terrorism suspects
Training the Next Generation of Imperialists
Steve Horn, Allen Ruff on the war party at the university
US Still Backs Despotism in Middle East
John Glaser on Hillary's Yemen and Bahrain
.
Scott Horton Interviews Christopher Anders
Scott Horton, November 29, 2011http://antiwar.com/radio/2011/11/29/christopher-anders-3/
.

The "thermonuclear age" began on 1 November 1952 when the U.S. exploded the first thermonuclear bomb at Eniwetok atoll in the Pacific. Codenamed 'Mike', this bomb was 500 times more powerful than the 'Trinity' test and had an estimated yield of 10.4 megatons. As for the other thermonuclear states: the Soviet Union tested its first thermonuclear bomb on 22 November 1955; China on 17 June 1967; Britain on 8 November 1957 and; France on 24 August 1968.

The U.S. has carried out 1,030 nuclear weapons tests (the last and final test on 23 September 1993). The Soviet Union: 715 tests (the last on 25 October 1990 -- Russia has not exploded any nuclear weapons). France: 210 tests (the last and final test on 27 January 1996). Britain: 45 tests (the last and final on 26 November 1991). China: 43 tests (with some four more tests reportedly planned for 1996-1997).

The average pace of nuclear weapons testing is remarkable: Since 16 July 1945 there have been 2,044 tests worldwide, the equivalent of one test occurring somewhere in the world every nine days for the last fifty years.

The nuclear winter concept is to do with the effect of detonation of many multi-megaton warheads nearly simultaneuously. But, fair point, even the 50MT Tsar bomba did not cause a nuclear winter.

More disturbing however would be the effect of these detonations in cities. You dont have to knock out many major cities to cripple a country and send it back several hundred years. A declassified report from the 80's estimated that london plus 10-20% of the UK urban centres would cause the effective disintegration of all meaningful means of government. Many on ZH might rejoice at that idea, but joking aside, the prospect is not pretty.

Watch the excellent 'Threads' on you tube to be reminded how terrfying nuclear weapons and their effects on soft targets (and not just deserted military testing ranges) really is.

Post-Script: However due it is massive yield the Tsar bomba was detonated at high altitude to minimise fall out (and hence atmospheric ash). According to wikipedia it was actually one of the cleanest detonations ever. But the picture would be different if it had been a ground burst. Also, in general nuclear tests a designed to limit fallout and debris. Hence they also minimise the radioactive ash that would cause a nuclear winter. If used in anger they could be much more dirty and cause a greater atmospheric disturbance.

But there is no way that is even a repudiation let alone a thorough one. For a start it is not a scientific paper, its a cultural theory meta analysis of pre-existing science. Immediately I down grade it for this (anyone who says meta-narrative needs a sharp lesson in not being a douche as far as I am concerned). Therefore all this can ever do is argue and review. Secondly the straight denails of the science are journalistic quotes from scientitsts. Some of whom (eg. Dick Feynmann) seem to distance themselves from the comment after the fact. Not great evidence. And my final objection is the main one and of greater generality than this issue. Because the nuclear winter model is in some senses wrong (they are listed in the paper, eg. its one dimensional) people think that the whole thing should be ignored (its the same in climate modelling). But the fact is that all models are wrong. Models are not there to be right. They are there to be useful. One way in which they are useful (as distinct from being useful in the sense of predicting the flight path of a satillite) is to make us quantitatively explore a hypothesis. Asking if nukes could kick up enough ash so as to increase the albedo of the earth (as volcanoes can do) is not unreasonable.

I am not a member of the 'peace lobby' as the paper laughingly puts it. Nor am I a proponent of nuclear winter theory. But this paper refutes nothing. It reads more like a meme assasination attempt by someone with a motive to make nukes seem less apocalyptically horrendous than they really are.