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Aired October 5, 2016 - 21:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:00:34] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And welcome to the second hour of "360".

We have breaking news on Hurricane Matthew, late word on evacuations from Florida, through Georgia, through Carolina. It could come ashore as a category four storm. No one is taking that lightly. We'll bring you the latest throughout the hour and all the major developments.

We again though in Reno, Nevada where just a short time ago, Donald Trump wrapped up a rally, has been losing grounds in the poll there and elsewhere since the first presidential debate. Tonight, how he and Hillary Clinton turn a late groundwork for their next face off this Sunday, which I'll be moderating, along with ABC's Martha Raddatz from St. Louis.

Our Jim Acosta joins us from Reno. What was Trump's message to voters tonight?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, he was talking a little bit about last night's vice presidential debate. He said Mike Pence did a great job. He didn't go on and on as he did earlier today in the Las Vegas area. You know, that what was when Donald Trump basically took credit for the job that Mike Pence said -- did last night, saying that he deserves part of the credit because it was Mike Pence that was one of his first big important decisions as a presidential candidate.

Later on the speech here, he went after ObamaCare, reminding the crowd here that President Bill Clinton earlier this week described the Affordable Care Act as a crazy system.

But Anderson, it was interesting to hear Donald Trump sound like a wonk on the election process. He was talking about early voting dates here in Nevada. He was pointing people in the crowd to volunteers who could talk to them after the rally. It was over to make sure they know where to go -- go to vote. So it sounds like Donald Trump is trying to get into the knitty-gritty of the voting process which is only a little more than a month away.

COOPER: This would certainly be the time to do that. I mean, he is hosting a town hall in New Hampshire tomorrow, similar format, I understand to the one on Sunday's debate, I guess kind of a dry run for Sunday.

ACOSTA: Right. Yeah. And the Trump campaign admits this. This is sort of a practice run for Donald Trump tomorrow night in New Hampshire. He's going to be doing a town hall-style format to get him ready for this town hall event that is going to be taking place. You'll be moderating on Sunday with Martha Raddatz in St. Louis.

And it is -- it's interesting, Anderson, because, earlier, you know, after that or before that first presidential debate, his advisers were trying to lower expectations. Now they're basically raising the bar. Kellyanne Conway, the Trump campaign manager, says the town hall format is something that suits Donald Trump. Tailor made for Donald Trump's skills.

So they're actually doing something that most campaigns don't do at this point. They're raising expectations for their candidate.

And I will tell you, after talking to people inside the Trump campaign, they're pushing back on this notion that Donald Trump was somehow jealous of Mike Pence's performance in the vice presidential debate last night. They say, no, that is not the case. Kellyanne Conway, the campaign manager says that's truly outrageous.

But Donald Trump is going to be getting back into debate prep, a GOP source told me earlier this evening that Reince Priebus, the RNC chair, and New Jersey Governor, Chris Christie, will be a big part of that debate prep process which Donald Trump will be getting into here in the next few days, Anderson.

Hillary Clinton meantime spent the day largely off the stump heading from New York down here to Washington where she held a fund-raiser tonight.

Jeff Zeleny, he's got the latest on that, and the debate preps she's been doing, he joins us. So, what was Clinton's message to supporters at the -- tonight's event?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, she did talk about that vice presidential debate for the first time as well. And she said this about Mike Pence. She said he bobbed and weaved and tried to get out of the way, but defending Trump is the impossible task. But then, she went on to focus on the key event that her campaign is focusing on that showdown in St. Louis. And she told her supporters this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm looking forward to our next debate next Sunday. I thought the first one went pretty well. And just as in that first debate, I feel it's my responsibility not to defend myself against his attacks, because really, been there, done that. I think it's my responsibility to defend everybody else against his attacks. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: And moving forward, I mean, Clinton is planning, I understand, to stay off the campaign trail largely to prep for the debate similar what she did before the last debate.

ZELENY: She is indeed. I mean, practice makes perfect. And her campaign believes practice could actually win debates. They are preparing in the very same way. She was with a small group of her advisers in her home here in Washington for several hours today. She'll be doing the same thing really for the next three days.

[21:05:08] Off the campaign trail, not meeting any voters, she is having some fund-raisers but no actual campaigning until after that debate in St. Louis. They are trying on replicate the process from her first debate because, Anderson, they believe it worked for them and one goal over all here. They want to keep that momentum alive that she thought she won in that first debate.

COOPER: I mean actually the last time she actually did a town hall -- I know Donald Trump we just talked about he's having a town hall tomorrow night, is Clinton doing anything specifically to prepare for the town hall format? I mean, mock debates, do you know?

ZELENY: She will be doing some mock debates for some topics that did not come up in that first debate. So she will be once again working with her mock Donald Trump. That didn't happen today but I'm told it will be over the next couple days. But she also is just going back into the mindset of all those town halls she did early on in the campaign. And some of the more interesting moments she has had have indeed come from town hall meetings, some in New Hampshire, some in Iowa, some here on CNN, some with just regular voters.

So they really believe that, you know, she is able to connect with voters in that respect. But they are taking questions from some staffers and others of what they think may be some of the topics here. Her big challenge is being relatable and likable. And she wants to convey that she can indeed win people's trust, even if they don't necessarily like her right now, Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, thanks very much.

Back with our panel. Joining us this hour, Clinton supporter, Bill Press, and new CNN contributor and "Washington Post" assistant editor, David Swerdlick.

It is interesting, Gloria, that Hillary Clinton is essentially doing what she did before which is going off the campaign trail, you know, doing some fund-raisers, but off the campaign trail, and really prepping for this in a very serious way.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Donald Trump mocked her for it during their first debate and she said, yeah, I was off the trail preparing. Do you know what else I was preparing for? Become president of the United States. I don't think he's going to mock her for it again because he is doing a very public prep session tomorrow late in the day, because he needs to get focused, as well.

And so, I think she is going to do what worked for her the first time around and try and repeat it. I just don't know who's going to play you in the ...

So, David, I mean everything that Hillary Clinton went after Trump on in the first debate, I guess, he will try to practice or be trying to prepare for similar kind of attacks?

DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. He's got to prepare for those same attacks, because they worked the first time. So there's no way that the Clinton campaign is going to let their foot off the gas on Trump. At the same time, though, I really think Clinton has to be prepared equally for some Trump attacks to come back from Trump on Bill Clinton's infidelities, on, let's say, the e-mail scandal, opportunities that Trump missed. And that they're not going to miss again.

COOPER: Corey, do you think Donald Trump should bring up Bill Clinton's past?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Look, I think as it relates to Hillary Clinton attacking the victims, I think it's fair game if she wants to talk about Donald Trump, and Hillary Clinton has a history of attacking the victims of Bill Clinton's sexual, you know, propensities. And if that's the case and Hillary Clinton wants to make that the issue of this campaign, then so be it. But I think the American people at this point want to talk about taxes and jobs and Hillary Clinton's flip-flops on TPP, the fact that she hasn't released her 33,000 e-mails, I think they want to talk about immigration, in fact, that she's for amnesty and open borders. There's a clear difference in this election when it comes to those important issues. I think that's what the American actually care about.

COOPER: Bill, do you think if Donald Trump goes down that road, then Secretary Clinton talks about Donald Trump's past?

BILL PRESS, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I would hope so. Look, I think it is a huge mistake if they really are thinking about going into Bill Clinton's infidelities.

First of all, there's nothing that pisses women of more than to blame the wife or what the husband has played ground.

BORGER: Do you think?

PRESS: Yeah, all right, OK. So I've been told. But also, we've been there before. I mean, remember, Bill Clinton was reelected after this. Hillary was elected senator from New York and reelected senator from New York. This dog don't hunt as they say down south.

I would agree, Corey, stick to jobs, stick to trade, stick to those issues. I would stay away from the infidelities for sure. The other thing I want to say is, I think everybody learned in the first debate, I would hope that preparation matters. And Hillary is doing serious preparation for this debate as well.

You indicated Donald Trump is going to have a practice town hall. But that's not sitting down, really going over the issues, preparing on what you want to bring up and how you're going to get under her skin the way she got under his skin. So I think the lack of preparation will show again Sunday night.

COOPER: Kayleigh, you know, with a lot of his observers said about the first debate is -- that she did a very good job of pivoting to not only get her point across, but to counter attack to Donald Trump. And he did not -- there are number of missed opportunities that he didn't do that, obviously, something you would like to see him do more of. Do you think he -- is that something you think he can learn or has learned?

[21:10:01] KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Definitely. You know what Scott Walker said today that he counseled Mike Pence to do which was, don't take the bait. So that something that's learnable. It's something I'm sure will ...

COOPER: Which Pence did brilliantly, I mean, I thought ...

MACENANY: He did brilliantly and he laid out some of the harshest critics of Hillary Clinton, the Clinton Foundation, the e-mail scandal and so forth. But what he did that I think was almost more important than that, is he managed to make up Kaine look very small. Because Kaine when he was asked about the Syrian refugee crisis, which we all remember that picture of that little boy badly hurt by a bomb, he used that opportunity to go back to Donald Trump's taxes. He did the same thing when asked about Russia. It was just too much.

And Pence looked line he was taking it to the issues and elevating and having a more positive tone and it made Kaine look small. And I think Donald Trump has an opportunity to carry that strategy forward.

COOPER: The flip side of that the -- that knock against Pence obviously was that the candidate he was talking about was not the candidate who is actually running.

MARIA CARDONA, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Exactly. And here's the other thing, and I hate to break to it to Republicans, but the person who's going to show up with this debate ain't going to be Mike Pence, it's going to be Donald Trump. Somebody who does not have a training to pivot, somebody who doesn't have the practice to do those pivots, somebody who interestingly enough, is a decades long Washington based typical politician, right, the kind that Donald Trump rails against.

COOPER: Do you think ...

CARDONA: Yet he is the one that has to have -- they want Donald Trump to imitate in this debate in order to be successful.

SWERDLICK: Part of the strength of Mike Pence in that debate is that he has a core conservative ideology.

CARDONA: That is ...

SWERDLICK: He is a career politician although he was a radio host before that. And so he can assess the question and say this is more of a policy question, this is more of bait that I do or don't want to take. Donald Trump, even if he is boning up this week, doesn't have the years of policy now ...

(CROSSTALK)

MACENANY: I don't think Donald Trump -- I mean I think Donald Trump had a good first debate. Certainly those first 30 minutes, he won.

And I think that what's important for him is not to try to imitate Mike Pence but to be him. Anyone who's met Donald Trump knows how engaging he is, when you meet him knows what -- how personable he is, that person wins a town hall. Hillary Clinton doesn't have that.

COOPER: But can -- I mean, Corey, you know Donald Trump -- can he resist the bait that Hillary Clinton throws at? I mean, which -- I think you can make the argument clearly that in the first debate, you know, she brought up little issues that got under his skin and that he did end up beating time up talking about it and discussing it.

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think in this debate, you have to remember the town hall format.

COOPER: Right. It's different.

LEWANDOWSKI: Very different. So this is not Donald Trump attacking Hillary Clinton or Hillary Clinton attacking Donald Trump, is responding to the people who are asking questions and we don't know what those questions are going to be. The moderator's ability to control those are very limited because the people have concerned and that's what they want to hear from the candidates.

Now, does that mean you can't pivot and talk about your ideology versus her ideology? Of course you can. But I don't think what you're going to see is direct attacks in the same way that you saw the last time. Because in my recommendation to Donald Trump, to talk to the person who has asked you the question, answer their question, make sure you can outline your vision -- you want to do to help that person and fix that problem that they're having and contrast that with what your opponent is doing. Now I think, if you can do that, you can be successful.

BORGER: You know, we're in a situation now, too, where the bar is even lower for Donald Trump than it was at the first debate because of his performance of the first debate, for the last hour of it. Let me say -- Keyleigh, I will give you the first 30 minutes of that debate. I thought he did well.

I think now people are sort of going to say, well if he doesn't trip, he's, you know, he's done well. And I think the challenge for Hillary Clinton here is very different. Hillary Clinton did very well at that debate. She has to show her humanity here. Donald Trump has to show how substantive he is.

COOPER: Bill?

PRESS: Well, I'm just going to say, we haven't seen the two of them in a town hall format. But we've seen Hillary Clinton in a town hall format.

BORGER: Yes.

PRESS: I think comfort has a lot to do with the people that look comfortable in that format. There's no podium. We haven't seen Donald Trump operate without a podium. I think he's real honest on him. She is very comfortable in that situation.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: And she was very relaxed in that first debate and he wasn't and she showed again, she knew how to get under his skin.

CARDONA: Exactly.

PRESS: I think she can do it in the town hall format.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: What Donald Trump said last time when Hillary Clinton got so under his skin is I can be nastier than she is. So let's see how he does at responding to questions from voters ...

COOPER: OK. Corey?

LEWANDOWSKI: To Bill's point, the Commander-in-Chief Forum in NBC held with Matt Lauer as the moderator, there was no podium there, everybody, every poll, everybody saw that's Donald Trump was better there. Hillary Clinton ...

PRESS: Who's sitting?

LEWANDOWSKI: He was seated but there was no podium. He's sitting next to Matt Lauer.

(CROSSTALK)

LEWANDOWSKI: And I think all of the acclaimed came that Donald Trump was well prepared for that. He was focused. He did a very good job there. There was no podium and it's a one-on-one discussion with Matt Lauer. And he's answering audience questions.

COOPER: We're going to take a quick break. There will be plenty more to talk about as the debate prep ramps up, all the way to the face off in St. Louis, Sunday, Washington University, as people reminding me. ABC News's Martha Raddatz and I will be moderating.

[21:15:02] Our CNN live coverage gets underway Sunday afternoon starting at 4:00 p.m. Eastern. I hope you join us for that. More ahead tonight of what's being called Bill Clinton's ObamaCare gaffe, which Donald Trump as you heard is capitalizing out. We'll talk about that as well as President Clinton's larger history and sometimes causing campaign drama with his statements.

We'll also bring you up to today in our Hurricane Matthew which hit Florida with a category of four punch.

(COMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Donald Trump weighing in again tonight of Bill Clinton who we have seen and not just in this campaign can be an asset and a liability on this. Donald Trump -- here's what got him in trouble remarks of the day about the Affordable Care Act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: You've got this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and then the people are out there busting it, sometimes 60 hours a week, wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world.

(END VIDEO-CLIP)

COOPER: The Republicans and Donald Trump down seized on that. Trump talked about it again tonight at a late stop in Reno, Nevada.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Did Bill Clinton blow it. Whoa, did he blow it. We're going to show the whole world that America is back bigger, and better, and stronger than ever before.

The first thing we're going to do is repeal and replace ObamaCare. President Clinton has come out and told the truth about ObamaCare. In all fairness, he told the truth.

[21:20:02] Two days ago, Bill Clinton torched President's Obama's signature legislation. Remember, Hillary Clinton ObamaCare one of the greatest accomplishments of the President, of the Democratic Party and of our country. Except it doesn't work. It's a disaster. It's costing everybody, including our country, a fortune. accept it doesn't work. It is a disaster.

Bill has a different view. Oh, did he suffer? Can you imagine when he walked home to that beautiful home in West Chester and he said, "Hi, Hillary, how was your day?"

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Donald Trump turning the gaffe into a campaign in Reno tonight. Here's how President Clinton try to clean up the damage yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) B. CLINTON: Look, the Affordable Healthcare Act did a world of good. And in the 50-something efforts to repeal it that the Republicans have staged were a terrible mistake. We, for the first time in our history, at least are providing insurance to more than 90 percent of our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, again, this is not the first time the manage job -- the explainer in chief has had to explain something he said during a campaign. More on that tonight from Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

B. CLINTON: I have no confidence in my political field anymore. I've just been out of it a long time.

RANDY KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Former President Bill Clinton in September last year downplaying his skills as a surrogate for his wife, Hillary.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He was cool, calm, collected, he was kind of calibrating himself, and then he dropped a bomb. I don't know anything about politics. I'm out of it. And then he drop another bomb. That kind of Bill Clinton will be a tremendous asset to Hillary Clinton.

KAYE: CNN political commentator, Van Jones, considers Bill Clinton one of the greatest defenders of his wife. Listen to him on CNN with Fareed Zakaria

B. CLINTON: I have never seen so much expanded on so little. The other party doesn't want to run against her. And if they do, they'd like her as mangled up as possible.

JONES: He is a beloved figure, period. He's one of the most popular politicians or political leaders on the planet Earth. You don't put somebody like that in a jar and hope they don't say anything. Will he make mistake? Sure.

KAYE: Mistakes like he made back in 2008? Early that year the former president called then Senator Barack Obama's campaign a fairytale, then had to explain later that he was talking only about Obama's stance on the Iraq war, not Obama's quest to become the first black president.

Bill Clinton also compared Obama South Carolina a primary win to Jesse Jackson's successful campaign in the state years earlier. A comment that angered black voters who thought he was marginalizing Obama. Clinton tried to explain.

B. CLINTON: I think that they played the race card on me. This was used out of contest and twisted for political purposes by the Obama Campaign to try to breed resentment elsewhere.

KAYE: After the interview, the former president thought his mic was off. Then went on to say this.

B. CLINTON: I don't think I can take any shit from anybody on that, do you?

KAYE: When a reporter asked him about his comments, the former president was the one pointing fingers.

B. CLINTON: You always follow me around and play these little games and I'm not going to play your games today. You have mischaracterized it to get another cheap story to divert the American people.

JONES: The reality is the black community forgave him 20 seconds later as soon as Obama won. And since then, he hasn't made those kinds of mistakes.

KAYE: A July CNN/ORC poll shows the public's view of Bill Clinton has changed since he hit the campaign trail. Over the summer, 50 percent of registered voters polled said they had a favorable view of Bill Clinton. That's down 15 points from March of last year. Still, he's always connected well with voters which the campaign hopes, despite a tendency to go rogue, will only help Hillary Clinton.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Back now with our panel which never needs any damage control. Let's start off with Gloria. I mean, it is interesting to see, you know, the problems of Bill Clinton has had on the trail before, we all remember of course when his wife was running against Obama. But -- I mean, he basically did hand the Republicans and Trump a huge gift with his comments on ObamaCare.

BORGER: Yeah, you know, a huge gift. The thing about Bill Clinton that we really don't see very often in politics anymore is that he's candid and he sometimes forgets where he is. And it might be something he'd be saying sort of at the dinner table or to some aid, and say, you know ObamaCare turned out to be a disaster. But he was actually saying it on stage with cameras on him and causing the -- his wife's campaign a lot of grief.

COOPER: I mean, David, we should point out what he was saying in particular was so -- what he was saying was so crazy is that small businesses and their employer and their employees, small business owners and their employees who are working really hard and not above a certain income level have seen their premiums go way up and their coverage drop.

[21:25:01] SWERDLICK: Yeah. ObamaCare has a lot of kinks in it and it remains unpopular program with a lot of people. You can see what President Clinton was trying to do there. He's sort of folksy, you know, I feel your pain, can you believe what these stuffed shirts in Washington sort of stuck you with kind of thing. But it doesn't play the same way for him than it did in 1992 or 1996 or even 2008. And I frankly see him as a little bit of a liability for the Clinton campaign. COOPER: Bill?

CARDONA: I absolutely do not agree with that. And in fact, I don't think that this was such a gaffe at all. I think a couple things. ObamaCare is absolutely transformational and it will go down in history as that when we hear and read what President Obama did for this country. To give coverage to 25 million people who did not have it before is nothing less than transformational. Is it perfect? No.

COOPER: Right. But just in terms gaffe, anything that in these closing days of a campaign ...

CARDONA: Yes, of course.

COOPER: ... you have to spend a couple days talking about takes you off ...

CARDONA: But I also think it gives Hillary an opportunity to say, look, I've never said it was perfect. President Obama has never said it was perfect. And in fact, they could have fixed it by now except for Republican's never want this health opportunity ...

COOPER: Bill?

PRESS: First of all, why should that piece -- my one thought was what fun this will going to be for all of us when he is first lady? We're going to have every day or whatever you call them, every day something to talk about that Bill Clinton has said that -- I disagree a little bit with this.

First of all, I think Bill Clinton was right. ObamaCare is a mess. It's a scam for the insurance company. Bernie Sanders was right. Get rid of the insurance companies that have single payer. Having said that -- but Bill Clinton, he didn't say anything different than Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have been saying all along, which is ObamaCare is not perfect. It needs a fix. Not repeal ...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Kayliegh?

MCENANY: He's obviously saying something different than the Obama Administration when Josh Earnest came out today and said, "Yeah, I wouldn't have said that." He called ObamaCare a crazy thing. And to David's point ...

PRESS: He said he wouldn't have used the word crazy ...

MCENANY: To David's point, a majority of voters in almost every single poll do not like ObamaCare, why? Because they were sold a bill of goods. If you like your doctor, you get to keep it away. No, you don't like to plan ...

PRESS: You know why? Because the House has voted over 50 ...

(CROSSTALK) COOPER: Corey, go ahead.

LEWANDOWSKI: The greatest part, since we're talking about another Bill Clinton mistake. I love -- right, this is greatest the thing. Honestly, I think for the first time what we see in this campaign is someone who actually said the truth on the Democratic side.

MCENANY: Yeah.

LEWANDOWSKI: He went out and just spoke from the heart. He spoken extemporaneously. This is what he truly believes. This is what the American people believe. He understands that.

The fact that you are a small business owner and you are getting destroyed working 60 hours a week and your premiums are going up, and multiple insurance companies now dropping the plan in multiple states because it's just too expensive. Everyone understands this.

Bill Clinton said what everybody already knew but the Obama team and Hillary Clinton -- no, no you got to (inaudible) vote. What we saw today was Bill Clinton trying back track. He doesn't want to backtrack. He wants to say exactly what he said yesterday. That's the real Bill Clinton. That's the real problem.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: But then when you have Donald Trump who says, we're going to repeal and replace, replace with it what? Republicans have not been able to come up with a real plan ...

MCENANY: Yes, they have.

CARDONA: ... that would give the 25 million people or more coverage than they absolutely need. And I also think it really hurts them again with the Obama coalition. ObamaCare gives 20 -- 10 million Latinos covers that didn't have it before, millions of African- Americans, single women who have not been able to sleep at night because they worry about not being able ...

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: ... to take care of their children and ObamaCare gives them that.

MCENANY: That is incorrect to say. That is incorrect to say that Republicans have not come up with a plan. Paul Ryan put out a great plan involved giving tax credits to people to be able to purchase insurance. It is ...

(CROSSTALK)

MCENANY: Eliminating state alliance allowing companies to compete. It is a good plan. One that is a lot better than ObamaCare.

COOPER: Bill? PRESS: No, no, no, let's get to that. Look, Republicans in the House have voted over 50 times to repeal ObamaCare and replace with it nothing. I've read Paul Ryan's plan.

CARDONA: Exactly.

PRESS: It's a joke. Tax credits for whom? And the people who have never been able to afford health insurance ...

CARDONA: Right.

PRESS: ... don't have enough money to -- need a tax credits to buy health insurance. They just need to get the insurance companies out of the way and be able to get in and get a federal subsidy. Paul Ryan does a way with all of that.

But the point is again, I want to come back. Hillary Clinton has always said, don't dump ObamaCare. Let's fix it. And it needs fixing.

COOPER: Well certainly ...

SWERDLIKE: That's not what President Clinton said and that's the problem. ObamaCare hasn't been a big issue in this campaign and now all of a sudden now here we are talking about it.

BORGER: Well, and all of a sudden Hillary Clinton is in a position of trying to explain what her husband really meant and trying to unwind it. And Bill Clinton tried to do that today because he's a smart politician, he understands what that looked like for his wife and he doesn't want to step in it for her. She's going up in the polls right now. He doesn't want to do anything ...

COOPER: It also gives Donald Trump something specific to talk about that is a hammer against Hillary Clinton that's not dealing with his taxes or anything else.

CARDONA: Well, that's why they loved it.

[21:30:00] LEWANDOWSKI: Every time that you're defending something that your spouse said has probably a win for the other side, right? And today Hillary Clinton is suspending something that her husband say, trying to change that. Look, maybe this comes up in the debate on Sunday. We did not discuss health care and ObamaCare in the last debate.

PRESS: I hope it does.

LEWANDOWSKI: This is something that should come up in the upcoming debate because there a lot of people who need a health care system that actually works, not one where the premiums go up and they get dropped from their provider. That doesn't work. So hopefully Hillary Clinton can address this issue on Sunday, does she agree with Bill Clinton, that has been an ought of failure or does she want ...

(CROSSTALK) PRESS: But do you know what? I'd say, still with an occasional malapropism or whatever, Bill Clinton is a huge asset to Hillary Clinton. Absolutely. People love him.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: He has big crowds. He's one of the most popular people on the planet. His foundation is doing immense good around the world. Keep Bill Clinton out there.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: In certain places in the country, I think Bill is right. But Republicans think two for the price of one here. We can attack Bill Clinton. We can attack Hillary Clinton. It works for you guys. That's exactly what Donald Trump was doing today and he kind of teed it up for him and I wouldn't be surprised if it comes up.

CARDONA: But I don't think that works for Donald Trump to grow his appeal, which is what he needs to do.

COOPER: We'll see. We'll see what happens Sunday. A lot to talk about ahead, a lot more news tonight, stay with us.

Just another quick reminder about our CNN coverage ahead. Mike Pence, Tim Kaine, fresh from their debate will both be guest on New Day tomorrow morning. Not talking at the same time.

Showing up tonight in the key swing state of Nevada former Trump supporters tell our Gary Tuchman why they now are planning to vote for Clinton. We'll see what changed their minds.

Also ahead, evacuations begin in Florida and several other south eastern states as Hurricane Matthew heads that way after causing massive destruction. The Caribbean latest forecast when we continue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:35:38] COOPER: A reminder on Sunday night, the presidential candidate's going to face off their second debate. This time in St. Louis, I'll be co-moderating. 84 million people watched the first debate. According to multiple polls, Hillary Clinton got a bounce nationally in several swing states, the biggest shift, Nevada. In a Fox News poll done before the debate, Trump was ahead by four points among likely Nevada voters, 46 to 42 percent. In a Suffolk University Poll done after the debate, Clinton leads Trump by six points among likely Nevada voters, 44 to 38. Now those are the numbers. Here's what voters in Nevada told our Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Robert Klein is a biker, an army veteran and a registered Republican. He says he has never before voted for a Democrat for president. So why is the Nevada resident of a Democratic rally in support of Hillary Clinton? He says the first presidential debate is the reason. Before you watched the debate, who were you going to vote for?

ROBERT KLEIN, NEW CLINTON SUPPORTER: Donald Trump.

TUCHMAN: And the debate ended and what did you think?

KLEIN: Totally convinced, Hillary Clinton.

TUCHMAN: Following the debate, polling indicated a dramatic shift in Nevada, a big swing from Trump to Clinton. One of the biggest turn arounds in the country and that's because of people like Klein now attending his first ever Democratic rally.

Are you disappointed that Donald Trump didn't convince you that he should be president?

KLEIN: Absolutely, absolutely because I've always admired the man.

TUCHMAN: The 55-year-old says it wasn't anything Trump said during the debate that changed his mind.

KLEIN: It's the things he didn't say. You know, he never, ever speaks that he has a plan or he has some idea of what he's really getting into.

TUCHMAN: Shauneece Bonilla is a Nevadan who says she is an independent.

Before this debate, did you know for sure who you were going to vote for president?

BONILLA: He kind of -- instead of answering the direct question, he kind of skirts around it.

TUCHMAN: Thomas Stark is a registered Democrat. But after Bernie Sanders dropped out, it was Clinton facing Trump.

THOMAS STARK, NEW CLINTON SUPPORTER: I wasn't enthusiastic about either one.

TUCHMAN: But after the debate, he also decided, yes for Clinton and no for Trump.

STARK: He reminded me of Richard Nixon. And the reason being is that it just looked like he was hiding too much from the get-go.

TUCHMAN: Donald Trump's Nevada campaign stops on this day are part of the effort to stop Clinton's momentum in the state.

And many Trump supporters here fervently believe the upcoming debates can help do just that.

DAVIS CROUCH, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think it's sometimes about the issues that he'll win Nevada if he goes like the person then, he'll lose.

MICKEY WATSON, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Might have to have faith in humanity and in people and I think they're going to realize that she is crooked.

TUCHMAN: But Robert Klein says his decision is final.

Is it a weird feeling knowing that for the first time you're not going to vote for a Republican for president?

KLEIN: Yes, it is. I feel kind of a betrayal.

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COOPER: And Gary joins me now from Henderson, Nevada where Trump spoke in a rally earlier today. So the people you talk to, did any of them tell you that their family members or friends were surprised or upset that they're now voting for Clinton?

TUCHMAN: That did indeed happen, Anderson. Several people we talked with who have made the decision to vote for Hillary Clinton were afraid to go on camera because they did not want to get family members angry. They did not want to create embarrassment for their families.

One woman we talked to who decided to vote for Hillary Clinton after the debate has a son who works for a Republican politician here in Nevada. She's a good mom and she was concerned if she went camera, her son could lose his job. That we don't know if that could happen but you could see it's a very sensitive issue. Anderson?

COOPER: All right, Gary, thanks very much.

Just ahead, the Justice Department said a top secret intelligence was stolen from the NSA. The government contractor who allegedly took files home with him has been charged. Details ahead.

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[21:43:38] COOPER: Tonight, we're learning about another breach of top secret intelligence at the NSA. Government contractor was arrested back in August. The Justice Department has just now making it public. Our justice correspondent Pamela Brown has the latest details. So what do we know about this and how big of a deal is it?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a big deal according to federal authorities. They say unauthorized disclosure of the top secret documents that Harold Martin allegedly stole from his workplace could cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security of the U.S. and this is a picture of him right here.

And furthermore, Martin worked at Booz Allen Hamilton as a contractor to the National Security Agency, the same contractor, Anderson, that employed Edward Snowden. Among the documents the FBI believes Martin stole were some detail in the hacking tools that the NSA developed to break into computer systems in other countries.

And according to law enforcement officials documents detailing the tools were posted on the internet in recent months and we're told that the FBI and NSA had been suspicious of Martin for some time. And when those tools were released online, the investigation into him intensified. He was arrested in August but that wasn't made public until today, after the "New York Times" reported the story, the arrest. Anderson?

COOPER: So he worked for the same contractor who was working for the NSA that Edward Snowden worked for which I guess is Booz Allen. Do we have any idea what his alleged motivations were? Or who he was trying to give this to with anyone?

[21:45:03] BROWN: So at this point, investigators haven't concluded what his motivation is, Anderson, whether it was political like what we saw with Edward Snowden or profit driven. At this point, sources do say that the FBI does not believe that he was working on behalf of a foreign country. We should note that his attorneys have released a statement and that reads in part that this is yet another blow to the NSA after and -- I'm sorry, the statement isn't on here. But basically the attorney said that he's a good man, that he loves his family, that he loves his country and that these are simply allegations at this point, Anderson.

COOPER: After Snowden, was anything done to prevent future leaks? I'm sure they must have done some sort of security review.

BROWN: Right. And so there was a lot of effort done after the Snowden leaks, Anderson, to try to prevent future insider leaks, future insider threats. And so this is a huge blow to the NSA. The NSA and other national security agencies have been trying to prevent this very type of thing from happening. Not to mention, the NSA has been trying to rebuild its reputation. So this is a blow to the NSA and of course, to Booz Allen as we pointed out the same contractor that employed Edward Snowden, Anderson.

Up next, devastation in Haiti from Hurricane Matthew in Florida along with other parts of the southeast on alert. Evacuations tell you about underway tonight. The latest on the storm's path ahead.

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[21:50:14] COOPER: Welcome back. All of Florida is under a state of emergency with Hurricane Matthew in its sights. Florida Governor Rick Scott briefed the public earlier tonight, making the threat as plain as he could.

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GOV. RICK SCOTT, (R) FLORIDA: Protecting life is the number one priority right now. If Matthew directly impacts Florida, there will be massive destruction that we haven't seen in years. Again, this is a deadly storm approaching our state.

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COOPER: The hurricane has already left at least 10 people dead, caused massive damage in the Caribbean.

Our meteorologist, Jennifer Gray is with us again from the CNN Whether Center. So how far away from Florida is Matthew now and when will we begin to see impacts? When will we begin to see impacts?

JENNIFER GRAY, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, right now, it's about 360 miles southeast of Florida. The Governor is right. He's not being dramatic. This is a serious situation. We haven't had a major storm impact Florida since 2005, so it's been a very long time. With this being a transient state a lot of people are new, maybe never experienced a hurricane. This is going to be -- could be the most powerful storm we've seen impact this portion of the coast since history ever recorded, as far as storms are concerned.

So 115-miles-per-hour winds, 115-miles-per-hour (inaudible) moving to the northwest at 12. And it is starting to get itself back together again. It is going to strengthen a little bit more as it heads to the north and west. And so we could see a category four storm off the coast of Miami Dade, Broward County by Thursday afternoon 2:00 p.m. We'll start to feel the effects several hours before and then by the time we are just off the coast of say Cape Canaveral, the space coast Friday afternoon, category four. Now this could track farther to the west and that's going to have much bigger impacts than if it tracks a little bit farther to the east.

Beyond that it's going to curve back to the north and east and then a lot of uncertainty lies in what's going to happen in the beginning part of the week. We have a lot of time to watch it, so let's just take this one step at a time because this is a monster.

We talk about the models, the forecast models and a lot of times they don't like to agree. They're agreeing on this one. A lot of agreement in where this is going to be central coastal Florida, that space coast, there's the European model. There's the American model almost the exact same spot. So this afternoon, we finally had a lot of agreement and there's the forecast models. But like I said, Anderson, in the last hour, it's going to make a lot of difference.

And let's go to the floor and show you. It's going to make a lot of difference where exactly this is. Even the smallest shifts to the west or to the east is going to make a huge impact because hurricane- force winds extend about 45 miles from the center. And so if this storm tracks a little bit farther to the west, you are going to have those dangerous category four winds onshore. If this tracks a little bit farther to the east, then those winds are going to be offshore and so you will have most likely tropical storm-force winds along the coast but those 120-plus-miles-per-hour winds will most likely stay offshore.

So that's why it is so important that if you are ordered to evacuate, you do so, because with the smallest little shift to the west, it could mean that now you are in that danger zone and you are going to experience those winds 130-plus-miles-per-hour where before you didn't quite think so. And so that's why it's so important to evacuate if you are told to and definitely be on alert. Anderson?

COOPER: Yeah, a lot to watch for. Jennifer Gray, appreciate the update. Now as Jennifer mentioned evacuations are already underway in Florida, in Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina.

Our Sara Sidner joins us from Florida's Daytona Beach with the latest. So are you already starting to feel the effects of Matthew?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We can definitely feel the winds. We can hear the surf. We know that the surf is up. It is expected to go up to eight to 12 feet when this thing gets closer and closer and closer by sometime Friday.

We already see the effects when it comes to the population here. A lot of people have left. They have gone. We also checked into some of the stores and a lot of things are missing from the stores like gas canisters. We can't find those anywhere. Folks worried that the gas is going to run out and so they're going not only filling up their SUVs, their cars, they're also filling up canisters. We also know a lot of the water, the big pallets of water, can't find that anywhere. Generators gone, a lot of people though have evacuated. They are heading these warnings. There is not a mandatory evacuation yet here. But we know that the barrier highlands here that have about 150,000 people, Anderson, they have voluntary evacuations and they are heeding those.

Tomorrow those will be come mandatory and they are warning people again, just as you heard Jennifer Gray say, this is a monster storm. This is no joke. People are not being dramatic.

[21:55:00] Officials are concerned that if people stay behind when they're told to evacuate you are putting people who rescue other like firefighters and the police in danger and they do not want to do that. So they are telling everyone pay attention because obviously these storms can move and shift. But certainly there is a lot of concern here and we can see it in the streets because we're not really seeing anybody in them and normally, you know, it's a spring break town. There usually a lot of tourist here. It's pretty dead tonight. Anderson.

COOPER: Well, we began tonight with new reporting on how Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are preparing for the next presidential debate. Trump's going to be holding a town hall tomorrow in New Hampshire. It's kind of a dry run for the main event. Clinton said to be prepping much the same way she did for the first one. We'll all of course unfold Sunday in St. Louis. I'll be one of the moderators along with Martha Raddatz from ABC. Our coverage gets underway at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time with barely a month to go to Election Day. The stakes, well, they cannot be higher.

[22:00:00] That does it for us. "CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON" starts now. See you tomorrow.