Holy Hindu Cow! What Now?: Sid Harth

ASIA TECHNOLOGY MAY 25, 2011, 5:14 P.M. ET

India’s Outsourcers Face Threat on Visas

Comments (1)

By MEGHA BAHREE And AMOL SHARMA

MUMBAI—India’s technology-outsourcing industry, which has rallied back in recent years from a major accounting scandal and the global recession, now faces a threat to its business model as the U.S. ratchets up scrutiny of the way Indian outsourcing companies use visas.

European Pressphoto Agency Infosys headquarters in Bangalore

U.S. authorities are investigating whether Infosys Technologies Ltd., India’s second-largest outsourcing specialist by revenue, abused a temporary business visa program to get employees into the country for longer-term assignments, according to people familiar with the matter.

The Infosys probe follows enactment of a U.S. law last year that significantly increased fees for skilled-worker visas. The measure was backed by U.S. senators who examined Indian companies’ visa practices and accused them of misusing the U.S. visa program.

Taken together, the moves are forcing Indian firms to re-evaluate the way they do business. Outsourcing firms like Infosys have spent a decade or longer sending personnel to the U.S. to work at client sites, where they help facilitate big offshore projects for banks and insurance companies, among others. Now, industry analysts say, they will have to consider whether they are better off keeping more staff in India.

In a statement Tuesday, Infosys said it received a subpoena from a grand jury in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, and that it intends to cooperate with the investigation. “At this time, we are not able to comment further on this grand jury investigation, but do want to reiterate that we take our legal-compliance obligations very seriously,” the statement said.

Indian companies have been seeking to counter rising antioutsourcing sentiment in the U.S., which has been fueled by high unemployment there. They have highlighted the thousands of jobs they have created at software-development centers in American cities. But their public-relations effort is likely to get tougher as Infosys faces U.S. authorities’ questions about whether it violated U.S. immigration laws.

IT companies in India generate about 60% of their combined $50 billion in annual revenue from U.S. clients. The stakes are high for the Indian companies which mostly rely on H-1B employment visas, given to highly skilled workers for long-term jobs. But those visas are capped at 65,000 a year, and can be hard to get.

The U.S. investigation of Infosys centers on whether it abused B-1 visas, a category the U.S. issues for short-term visits, to get its workers into the U.S. for long-term projects.

Som Mittal, president of Nasscom, an industry trade group, declined to comment on the Infosys probe, but said visas and visa categories were a significant issue. “We have worked very closely with law enforcement in the U.S. to explain our business model,” he said. “There are huge issues in interpretation of various visa categories that exist in the U.S., and this has been acknowledged by the [U.S.] administration as well. …We hope that the administration would work with us on how to interpret the visa rules better.”

The image of India’s technology-outsourcing industry took a beating in 2009 when the chairman of one of the largest companies in the sector, Satyam Computer Services, confessed to a massive accounting fraud. The Indian government stepped in to resolve that crisis, setting up a panel that managed a sale of the company. The tech sector faced more trials during the global economic downturn because of its heavy reliance on hard-hit U.S. and European markets for business, but it emerged from the recession, and has returned to fast growth.

Now the crackdown on visas poses new problems for the sector and could force companies to retool their business models, which have long been predicated on having relatively easy access to work visas, some industry analysts say. It also could potentially tarnish the image of one of India’s most prestigious firms, Infosys, which has earned a reputation for good governance.

“This is definitely a bit of a dent on its [Infosys's] credibility and its corporate brand,” said Chirajeet Sengupta, research director for Everest Group.

Stocks of the three big Indian information-technology companies—Infosys, Tata Consultancy Services and Wipro Ltd.—traded lower Wednesday.

Siddharth Pai, managing director of consulting firm TPI, said Indian companies over time will have to become truly global players, much like Japanese car makers did, to expand their businesses and also fend off political criticism of outsourcing. The tradeoff of hiring outside India, though, is higher costs. “Over the next two to three years we will see some strategic decisions being made by Indian firms,” said Mr. Pai. “Some will decide to truly globalize for growth, and others will specialize for protection of margins.”

Tensions over visas between the U.S. and India have spiked over the past year. Indian outsourcing companies say they feel they are being punished despite having helped American companies greatly cut their costs and improve their profits over the years. But detractors in the U.S. have alleged that companies are hiring cheap labor in countries like India while Americans are left without jobs.

Discuss: There is 1 comment

Sort by:Newest

0 second ago Sid Harth wrote: (your comment)

WSJ? Are you there my good buddy? Why are you doing it to me, of all the people? I have exhausted all my stock of wooly, oops, vile expressions in my several comments. I am high and dry, just like my gun powder. This is what I call regurgitating journalistic trade, not an honorable profession. We, both you and yours truly, have covered all the possible angles, challenged all the concepts, concocted theories, models, modalities and past medals and medallions, just like Taxi medallions screwed to the New York, NY cabs. One very mild reference in this particular piece is the reaction of my good buddy (sic) honorable Som Mittal, president of Nasscom. I could not trust Som Mital if he were president of India. His career, all duly recorded and described, oops, promoted by his co-conspirators, namely India’s outsourcing industry, makes him more of a follower than a leader. He takes orders from his industry bosses not the other way around. A regular peon, I say. His sudden silence on Infosys case is curious. He was the one who riled up, oops, led a direct onslaught on America’s new and improved foreign, oops, outsourcing policy. There were heated discussions where the vested interests and/or their paid or unpaid internet soldiers left nothing for imagination. Calling USA, (my words) Imperialists, free trade demolishing demons, unfair competitors and what-nots. I am ashamed at the display of their jingoistic, pugilistic attitude. However, when it comes to showing their true nature, naturally, we have to assume that they ask, oops, demand their rights to invade America, if and when they feel like. All current laws cannot prevent them from doing just that. Such arrogance and such display of disrespect for USA’s authority to control their own borders from vainglorious vagabonds from India? I have a message for Som, stay cool.

Tata Steel on Wednesday reported a consolidated net profit for the fiscal year ended March versus a loss in the year ago, helped by stronger volumes at its Indian operations and better prices in Europe.

The world's seventh-largest steelmaker by output reported net profit of Rs 89.83 billion ($2 billion) for the year after taxes, minority interest and share of profit of associates, compared with a consolidated net loss of Rs 20.09 billion a year ago.

Net sales for the year were Rs Rs 1.17 trillion, compared with Rs 1.02 trillion in the previous year.

The $500 billion global Steel sector has been caught in a margin squeeze since the middle of 2010, when raw material costs began increasing, but improving demand from the auto sector has helped boost steel prices.

Earlier this month, World No 1 steelmaker ArcelorMittal predicted higher profits in the second quarter, but Asian producers such as POSCO and Baosteel are still suffering depressed margins due to high raw material costs.

Tata Steel's European operations account for two-thirds of its global capacity of about 28 million tonnes, while the booming Indian operations contribute a quarter. It also has units in Thailand and Singapore.

Last week, the company said it will cut about 1,500 jobs in Britain as part of a restructuring of its loss-making long products unit, and cut capacity at a plant in northern England.

Ahead of the results, Tata Steel shares closed 0.9 percent down at Rs 561.20 in a Mumbai market that also fell 0.9 percent.

ET, you suck. When is the big bash, oops, party-hardy gonna start? Oops, it appears from the flowery, celebratory language you have used, it, already, has. Big deal. A mere $b ain't that goofy profit. A drop in an ocean, oops, Asean, oops, Asian, oops, Indian Ocean. Talk as much as you can, oops, you must, as dear sugar daddy of Ratan would fatten, oops, line your pocket books, oops, deep pockets with some of his black gold. Not real gold, if he can help it. Just kidding. I lobe, oops, love, with capital "L" Sir, oops, 'mahodaya,' oops, "mahadeva," Ratan Tata, Ask him. He cannot deny. Some kind of consideration, judgment, simple criteria must be established in the Indian, oops, Hindu dominated India, oops, Bharat. First rule, stop using "crore," as a measure of value. Nobody but Hindu patriots understand that archaic lingo. Second rule, use American system of thousand, hundred thousand, thousand-thousand instead of 'hazar, lakh and crore' That way your hill of beans sort of numbers fall into an understandable international method.My another suggestion, maybe, oops, most certainly, you would not like. Since jingoism in all areas, including but not limited to, financial reporting is so prominent, I wish the government of India imposes a Value Added Tax, 'VAT,' on any and all such balderdash. If and when they do offer this tax and maybe, they can manage to chase every media outlet, oops, portal to collect it, all the deficit would vanish. I take 10% haphta.

The Chinese economy is coming in for some sort of landing, and everyone is speculating whether it will be hard or soft. After HSBC on Monday released a purchasing managers index barely in positive territory, Goldman Sachs yesterday lowered its growth forecast for the year to 9.4% from 10%. But the determining factor in the hard vs. soft debate, and one reason global markets have fallen out of bed this week, is that Chinese inflation continues to accelerate. Goldman predicts an annual rate of 5.6% in June, up from 5.3% in April.

If you believe the government and some independent analysts, this isn’t a big deal because inflation will peak this quarter. A couple more hikes in bank reserve ratios and perhaps one more quarter-point rise in lending rates and prices will stabilize.

AFP/Getty Images Rising food prices are causing discontent in China.

Maybe that will prove true, and the world will breathe a sigh of relief. Yet it’s also worth considering the possibility that Beijing has backed itself into a monetary corner. The central bank has already used up most of its ammunition for fighting inflation, yet money continues to pour in on both the current and capital accounts. As a result, a chunk of the People’s Bank of China’s intervention in the forex markets to keep the yuan’s value stable is unsterilized, meaning it goes straight into the money supply. The fact that real interest rates remain negative shows that for all its alleged tightening, monetary policy remains loose.

When the economy is growing quickly, that’s not such a problem, as the new money has increasing amounts of goods to buy. But slowing output leaves more money chasing fewer goods, the classic cause of inflation. The conventional wisdom that governments stop overheating by constraining growth is turned on its head here.

The fragility of the global economy only adds to the angst. Asia-Pacific nations especially have become dependent on China for much of their growth. The last time China’s growth slowed significantly, in the late 1990s, its trade was still too small to exert much of an impact beyond its shores. Now it is the world’s second-largest economy and second-largest trader.

This means the world must pay close attention to Chinese fundamentals, including the stability of its banking system. Beijing will no doubt continue to insist on the principle of noninterference in its internal affairs, but there is a pressing need for greater transparency. As the Journal reports, China is the biggest player in the global steel market, yet nobody has a clear picture of how much it produces and consumes. The financial system is even more opaque, as official data are suspect and information that would be public elsewhere is still considered a state secret.

Officially, the large state-owned banks have reduced their nonperforming loans dramatically, to 300 billion yuan ($44 billion) in 2010 from more than one trillion yuan in 2005. But the government spurred the banks to lend 1.4 trillion yuan in 2009, and even the optimists concede that some portion of these loans are starting to go south. There are many ways to disguise this fact, as Japanese bankers can testify, and so the question is whether investors can trust the balance sheets of banks that are simultaneously arms of the state and listed companies.

Beijing may engineer another growth spurt by calling on the banks again to spur lending. But it’s clear that China’s growth model is reaching the limit of its usefulness. Sooner or later the central bank will have to halt its accumulation of reserves and the expansion of the money supply. That will deal a shock to the economy, but it will be better than continuing down this road toward a bigger crisis and recession.

Discuss: There are 7 comments

Sort by: Newest

15 seconds ago Sid Harth wrote: (your comment)

My dear WSJ,

Hope we are still friends. Now that you forced your terms of engagement upon me. The terrible terms required lil’ ol” Sid to subscribe the print edition, oh, that rag stinks, high heavens. Whereas, I accepted these, enforced terms and received my first genuinely gilded copy in my mail box, I may take you by your chin. Just one left zinger, coupled with a ringing right hook under your hoity-toity, capitalist chin-chin-chin.

Are we showing off my dear WSJ? Or is it some kind of junior High School, in Poughkipsie, oops, Pough kipsy, oops, Pokeepsy, NY, I could never learn to spell it correctly, sorry? Why not mention Das Kapital, Henry Miller, oops, Henery the eighth, oops, John Wayne, oops, John the Baptist, oops, John Adams, the 2nd president of these United States of America, circa 1797-180? Just kidding.

If, as you put it so strongly with flashing lights, horns and symbols, oops, cybal and ringing bells as accompaniment, that inflation must be a point of order, oops, discussion. What inflation? India has about three times bigger inflation and India is bouncing, like a ball, rolling like rug, falling like an asteroid on steroid, hoping to fall somewhere in Africa, even as we speak.

Be real, WSJ, these are the best of times and the.. you know the rest, a la Charles Dickens, may his sole, oops, soul rest in peace, preferably, in Paris, France and not in a dungeon of London, that foggy bottom disreputable little one sqare mile town, oops, that is Washington, DC.

Write that bites, not caresses. That my good buddy, WSJ, is the trend of the day. Have fun. What else is there?

…and I am Sid Harth

http://sidileak.com/

0 Recommendations

1 hour ago Chris Georgandellis wrote:

Oh yes, the speculation of a “soft landing.” I remember how this ends.

Where’s my parachute?

9 hours ago John Mcrae wrote:

“Beijing has backed itself into a monetary corner” ….and inflation in China has a peculiar historical connotation.

Through millennium, whenever Beijing unifies and becomes powerful, and the farmers and merchants of the south of China become prosperous, revolt occurs. Inflation will strike at the prosperity in the south of China, and Beijing will be forced to revise the economy.

11 hours ago Octavio Lima wrote:

And there is also a big problem with the creation of this big middle class. That class wants to consume and require more freedom that the government will never give. And when the government tightens the noose there will be a large resentment increasing the pressure for economic and political freedom. That is my belief. 1 Recommendation

13 hours ago Don Hefernann wrote:

I have made this argument before when people go all Tom Friedman on China – does anyone really believe that the Chinese leaders and bureaucrats have figured out how to eliminate business cycles or is there tremendous growth the result of starting from a tiny base and eliminating just enough restrictions on personal freedoms to allow market forces to do their magic.

ON THE second day of his testimony in the 26/11 attack trial in Chicago, David Coleman Headley said Sajid Mir -one of his Pakistani handlers -did not talk of fighting till death as part of the Mumbai attack strategy.

The “stronghold option” -holing up in a building and fighting off forces till the end -was decided upon after the option of abandoning the mission if there was a challenge was dropped. “If the fighters thought that they would leave, then they will not be able to fight properly. So they decided to opt for the stronghold option -fighting till the end,” Headley said in court, recalling his conversation with Sajid Mir in September 2008.

US prosecutors also produced as evidence in court a handwritten diary of Headley, establishing his links with the ISI and Jamaat-udDawa. The diary contains telephone numbers of two Major-rank officers of the Pakistan Army, besides some others who handled the 26/11 attackers.

The diary mentions the names and Pakistani phone numbers of Major Iqbal and one Major `SM’ (apparently a code name for Sajid Mir). The diary also has the names of key JuD operatives like Abdur Rahman Makki, the deputy of the outfit’s chief Hafiz Saeed.

Portions of the diary -`Government Exhibit -DCH-5′ were presented as part of evidence by federal prosecutors before Chicago court Judge Harry D Leinenweber, who is hearing the case in the ongoing trial of 26/11 accused Tahawwur Rana.

Headley’s diary also has the name and phone number of Wasi, who had figured as one of the Pakistan-based handlers directing the 10 Pakistani terrorists who struck in Mumbai on November 26, 2008.

There are a number of other names like Jehangir, Inam, Tehseen, Izaz M, Tahir, Manzoor and Khalid. Besides, there are abbreviated mentions like `A.R’, `M.H’, `M.B’ and `C.B’.

Most of the phone numbers mentioned are Pakistani. There are also two Dubai phone numbers.

During the first hour of the testimony on the second day, federal prosecutors were trying to prove that Headley had direct communication with Rana and his handlers in Pakistan -Major Iqbal, Sajid and Pasha. He was asked about several emails he sent to all of them.

According to Headley, he began laying the groundwork two years before the attack, with US $25,000 from Major Iqbal. LeT chief Hafiz Saeed, the mastermind behind the 26/11 attacks, motivated him to carry out the “jihad”, he said. Saeed told him that the satisfaction of one second of “jihad” is equal to “100 years of worship”. `IQBAL UPSET AIRPORT NOT TARGET’ In June 2008, he said, he had gone to Pakistan and met Major Iqbal and Sajid. Headley said he had discussions with Sajid, who wanted him to go back to India by end of June and was given a list of targets for surveillance in Mumbai -the Taj, Chabad House, Maharashtra state police headquarters and the Naval head station. He said Iqbal told him that Chabad House was the front office of Mossad.

Prior to going to Mumbai, he again had a meeting with Iqbal. The latter seemed to be upset that the Mumbai airport was not included as target.

Headley also met Zaki-urRehman (LeT operations comman der). “He just wished me luck. For all the actions taken against the Muslims, this would be a revenge for that -this is what he meant,” Headley said.

Headley said he returned to Mumbai at the end of June and in the beginning of July, started working on the surveillance. In July, Headley returned to Pakistan, met Iqbal and gave him the briefing.

Headley said he discussed about the attackers coming to Mumbai on boat. “Sajid and I talked about the safe house that Lashkar (cadres) and I had used in the past… He confirmed the landing sites, provided the videos, photos and GPS,” he said.

Headley testified that Sajid was training the fighters. “He told me that they were training at a training facility right outside Muzzaffarbad. There were 12 people being trained in explosives, fighting in a built-up area.”

THE BOAT ROUTE “In September, Sajid asked me to perform an additional task. Wanted me to go to Wagah Border.” Headley said Sajid told him each of the attackers would be given “Indian phone” so that they could keep in touch. He also told Headley the Pakistanis were training the attackers at sea.

Iqbal told him the attackers would go on an Indian fishing boat since a Pakistani boat would not go that far without being detected. In October 2008, Headley said, he had another meeting with Iqbal and Sajid in Lahore. Sajid said they had they lost a boat and were planning to get another. RETURN TO US Headley said he returned from Pakistan to the US in December 2008 and talked to Rana about the Mumbai attack. “I told Rana that I have been used for all these locations… I was furious what was happening.”

SENA AS TARGET Headley said he had also scouted India’s key atomic installation BARC and had visited the Shiv Sena headquarters in Mumbai. According to Headley, Iqbal, Sajid Mir and Pasha as well as Rana and him shared a hatred towards the Sena and thought it was a terrorist outfit. He testified there was a plot to assassinate Sena supremo Bal Thackeray, with an email sent to Sajid saying “Bala” would be travelling to the US and could be assassinated “over there”.

In testimony so painstaking that the judge and some jurors seemed to nod off at the mundane details, Headley described how he changed his name and used his American passport to portray himself alternately as a tourist or a businessman. He spoke so softly that the judge asked several times for him to keep his voice up. His answers often seemed more coached than spontaneous. And he became testy with prosecutors in a way that sometimes made it hard to tell which side he was on.

Headley told the judge that the ISI provided the Lashkar-e-Toiba financial, military and moral support. He assumed they worked under the same umbrella.

Prosecutor Sarah Streicker told the judge Rana knew all along what Headley was doing and “moved his business for Headley’s terror and plotting of attacks”.

On the other hand, Rana’s lawyer Charlie Swift said that Headley was “manipulative”, leading multiple lives including maintaining three wives. Swift had incidentally successfully represented Osama bin Laden’s driver in the landmark Supreme Court case that struck down the military commissions President George W Bush had established to try Guantanamo Bay detainees.

Swift also played a telephonic call between Abdur Rehman Pasha and Headley in which he made fun of Rana. PTI, WITH NYT

THE Maharashtra government is reluctant to foot a Rs 10-crore bill sent by the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) for providing protection to Pakistani terrorist Ajmal Kasab, who is lodged at the Arthur Road jail since 2009. The state government has argued that guarding 26/11 terror convict Kasab was a national issue and the state government should not be charged for it. A Home department official said that they were going to write to the Centre to waive off the charges.

Home Minister R R Patil said that the ITBP had sent a bill for the services provided by its officers. However, it was not an issue concerning the state alone, it was in the interest of the nation, he said.

“It is not surprising.

Whenever such deployment is made, a bill is sent to the concerned authorities,” said an official.

Replying to questions regarding the bill, CM Prithviraj Chavan said that he would discuss the issue with Home Minister R R Patil and take a decision.

THE BJP on Tu esday echoed the widespread concerns being expressed about the security of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons following the Ta liban attack on the Karachi naval base and said the world should now take action to de-nuclearise that country.

The main Opposition party said there was an urgent need to “sanitise” Pakistan for world peace and argued that the internal security situation in that country was alarming.

Having taken a somewhat hawkish stand by criticising the UPA government’s moves to hold dialogue with Pakistan, the BJP may in the coming days also point to the worsening security scenario in the neighbouring country to oppose New Delhi engaging with Islamabad in any way.

BJP spokesperson Rajiv Pratap Rudy said the Mehran nuclear base was considered safe but despite that Taliban could penetrate and wreak havoc, and that too especially at a time when the country was said to be on high alert after Osama bin Laden’s killing. In the last two years, there had been a spate of attacks on military installations.

“Pakistan is said to have the fourth largest arsenal of nuclear weapons…. We know that the Taliban has been targeting military facilities and they will try to lay their hands on nuclear weapons to make a dirty bomb. Therefore, Pakistan’s nuclear weapons are vulnerable,” Rudy said.

He said it was known that there was also a full-fledged “jihadisation” of the Pakistan army, which was a matter of concern for India and Southeast Asia.

Rudy said the question that now arose is how Pakistan is going to protect itself. “Pakistan has become the hotbed and epicentre of terror. Moreover, it has the rare mobile nuclear capability,” Rudy said.

Referring to the reported court statements of 26/11 attack accused David Coleman Headley in Chicago, Rudy said it has been proven beyond doubt that ISI perpetrates terror against India.

A DAY after nine Chhattisgarh police men, including an Additional SP, were killed by Naxalites near the Sunabeda wildlife sanctuary in Orissa’s south-western Nuapara district, local authorities were grappling with several puzzling questions surrounding the incident.

Crucial to the investigation is the disappearance of constable Hola Ram Sahu, who was supposed to be part of the 10-member team led by ASP Rajesh Pawar which had gone to Orissa on the trail of a Naxal leader. The search teams that were sent this morning recovered nine bodies from the site while Hola Ram was missing.

“Our team searched the area thoroughly, but we could not find him,” Raipur Inspector General of Police Mukesh Gupta told The Indian Express. The disappearance of the constable has led to speculation about whether he was a Naxal informer but Gupta quashed the reports. “A ll evidence points to a chance ambush. The police party was attacked only because their vehicle had broken down and it took time for them to arrange for a tractor. That, unfortunately, was long enough time for the Naxalites to launch the attack,” he said. Crucially, even the tractor which is said to have been towing the police vehicle, a Ta ta Sumo, when the attack happened, has not been traced.

The nine bodies were airlifted to Raipur where a postmortem was conducted. Police sources said the post-mortem report revealed gunshot wounds on the head and chest of the policemen.

They denied reports that the bodies had been mutilated or dismembered.

It has also now emerged that the ill-fated team was not on an operation but on a “verification mission” following information that a prominent Naxal leader was camping around that area. The information had come from a Naxalite-turned police informer, Gaurav, who was part of the 10-member team and was killed. The team was to be received by Nuapara SP Rajesh Pandit before deciding on the next course of action.

Pandit, who went to the spot Tuesday morning, said that in all probability Maoists of Mainpur division were responsible. Over the last two years, this division has led several attacks inside the wildlife sanctuary, terrorising the forest staff and killing a forester in April last year.

Though all the cops were in civilian clothes, they were traveling in an easily identifiable police vehicle. All police vehicles in Chhattisgarh have the same series of registration numbers starting with `CH03′ and these are not used during anti-Naxal operations.

After killing the policemen, a group of Maoists apparently waited to attack the search teams. “When our team advanced into the forests, we came under fire,” said a senior Orissa official.

Between May 4 and 23, 29 policemen have been killed in four ambushes in Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Maharashtra and Orissa.

WHILE the Joint Parliamentary Committee looking into the 2G spectrum scam is set to meet half-a-dozen times by June 30, its members are not sure whether it would be able to submit its report by the next session of Parliament. Members have been asked to prepare their lists of witnesses that the committee should summon. One of the members said his list contains 38 names “so far”. The committee has decided to call the Comptroller & Auditor General at its next meeting on May 30 and the CBI Director on June 7. Besides, four other meetings have been scheduled between June 8 and 30. “At this stage, it looks like a year long project at least,” quipped a member.

A PROMINENT chaatwala from West Delhi has apparently caught the fancy of UPA and Congress leaders, and his mouthwatering treats have virtually become a must at all major political functions. Invitees to the dinner hosted by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at his 7, RCR residence on Sunday to celebrate the completion of two years of his government gorged on the spicy chaat delicacies that were laid out. The grapevine has it that the services of the same chaatwala was also used by Ahmed Patel, political secretary to Congress president Sonia Gandhi, during the reception and marriage of his son Faisal recently. Also, prominent ministers, including Kapil Sibal and Ambika Soni, had apparently served chaat delicacies from the same vendor to their guests at parties they had thrown sometime back.

THE newly-formed Medical Council of India seems to be playing its cards safely. While the earlier board led by Dr S K Sarin did things in its own way without involving the Health Ministry in many of its proposals, new MCI chief Dr KK Talwar seems to have decided to take the government into confidence. In fact, the new MCI members had a meeting with the Health Minister on Monday. The idea, it appears, was to get to know his mind before the board starts meeting formally every week. The buzz is also that the new MCI may well revive an old proposal for launching a Bachelor’s of Rural Medicine course, which Health Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad had approved and publicised heavily.

WHEN Union Minister for New and Renewable Energy Farooq Abdullah landed at a five-star hotel where DMK chief M Karunanidhi was staying, the rumour mills worked overtime with some suggesting that he had gone there to placate the fellow UPA ally. The story, however, turned out to be quite different. One gets to hear that Abdullah had taken some guests to the fivestar hotel for lunch and when some TV reporters asked him if he had come to meet Karunanidhi, he thought he should call on the ailing leader. After his lunch, Abdullah went to Karunanidhi’s room and inquired about his health. “No politics was discussed,” he later stated.

THE Supreme Court on Tuesday sought response from the Chhattisgarh government on a bail petition by Piyush Guha alias Bubun, an associate of doctor-activist Binayak Sen.

While issuing a notice, a Bench of Justices G S Singhvi and C K Prasad asked the state government to respond to Guha’s petition by May 31.

Guha, a Kolkata businessman, was convicted of acting as a courier carrying letters written by top Maoist ideologue Narayan Sanyal, charged in many cases, including the October 2003 attack on the then Andhra Pradesh chief minister N Chandrababu Naidu and the November 2005 jail break in Bihar’s Jehanabad. The letters were allegedly given to him by Sen.

Convicted under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967, for being involved in conspiracy to commit sedition, providing assistance to banned Maoist outfit Communist Party of India-Maoist and its leaders and other provision of the IPC, Guha’s plea for bail, along with that of Sen, was rejected by the Chhattisgarh High Court on February 10, 2011.

Challenging the order of the High Court, advocate Prashant Bhushan, appearing for him, pleaded with the court to grant bail, saying he had already spent four years in jail. He also pointed out that the apex court recently granted bail to Sen.

The apex court had on April 15 granted bail to 61year-old Sen while questioning his conviction and life sentence for sedition saying he could be a sympathiser of Naxalites and nothing beyond that.

“No case of sedition is made out,” the apex court had said. “He may be a sympathiser (of Naxalites) but it did not make him guilty of sedition.”

NRHM PIO refuses to entertain application because it is not addressed to him REALISING that she will have to pay sev eral lakhs for the information about 72 lakh beneficiaries of Janani Suraksha Yojana, which she has sought under the Right to Information Act, state Congress president Rita Bahuguna Joshi on Tuesday sought the information in “electronic format”. But the Public Information Officer, NRHM, Lucknow, refused to entertain her application because it was not addressed to him.

The Indian Express on May 23 reported how details of the information sought by Joshi about beneficiaries of the Janani Suraksha Yojna in the past five years could run into lakhs of pages and that state officials were busy collecting the details.

On Tuesday, Joshi wanted to submit the application under Section 7(5) of RTI Act 2005, which gives an applicant the option to seek the information in “printed” or “electronic format”.

Under Section 5(a) of RTI Regulation of Fee and Cost Rules, an applicant has to pay Rs 50 as fee to get information on “diskette or floppy”. On the other hand, the charges of printed information are Rs 2 per page.

Since the information Joshi has sought runs into lakhs of pages, the charges for getting the information in printed form will also run into lakhs.

In the afternoon, a team of Congressmen, led by UPCC RTI cell chairman S S Makker, went to Public Information Officer, NRHM, Anil Kumar Mishra’s office to submit Joshi’s application. But Mishra, who had accepted Joshi’s initial application on April 27, refused to accept this one since it was addressed to “Public Infor mation Officer, Ministry of Medical, Health and Family Welfare, Government of Uttar Pradesh”.

Makker argued that Mishra had accepted the initial application which was similarly addressed, but Mishra said he may have made a mistake the first time, but he won’t do it again.

After about one hour of discussion, Makker and the others left Mishra’s office.

“We will pursue the matter on Wednesday,” said Makker. Later, they sent the application to Mishra’s office by Speed Post.

Accompanied by Rahul Gandhi, Joshi had gone to Mishra’s office on April 27 and submitted two applications under RTI. While one of the applications sought in formation about funds received and spent under NRHM in the last five years, the other sought details of all beneficiaries of the Janani Suraksha Yojna.

Since then, officials across the state have been busy collecting details of more than 72 lakh beneficiaries of the Janani Suraksha Yojna.

The 30-day deadline for submitting the information ends on Thursday.

Since the work of compiling the information is still on, no estimate of the number of pages is yet available.

Congress spokesperson Subodh Srivastava said they wanted the information on CD “because it is environment friendly and will save lots of paper, and thereby many trees”.

CHIEF Ministers of three states will not attend the Planning Commission’s regional meeting of five states to be held in Patna to discuss the draft approach to the 12th Five-Year Plan.

So far, only Orissa CM Naveen Patnaik has confirmed his participation in the two-day meeting, to be held in Bihar for the first time, on May 30 and 31.

The CMs of Chhattisgarh, Orissa, Jharkhand and West Bengal -apart from that of the host state -were supposed to attend the meeting, which is held every five years.

Chhattisgarh CM Raman Singh has already made it clear that he would not attend any meet of a panel that has social activist Binayak Sen -facing sedition charges in the state -as a member. Sen was recently appointed member of Planning Commission’s steering committee on health.

Jharkhand CM Arjun Munda will not attend the meeting as he is leaving for the US on May 28 for the treatment of his two sons.

West Bengal CM Mamata Banerjee will not at tend because of her preoccupation with her new job. Sources said Planning and Development Minister Manish Gupta will represent Bengal.

Bihar CM Nitish Kumar had tried hard to get “friend” Mamata to attend. He refrained from commenting on the Chhattisgarh CM’s stand.

Bihar Planning and Development Principal Secretary Vijay Prakash said: “We have so far got confirmation only from the Orissa CM. We have no details on CMs or other ministers or government officials representing Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand and West Bengal.”

Asked if Binayak Sen would be part of the plan panel team attending the Patna meet, Prakash said: “No. It is a general meeting of the plan panel where five states will discuss their priorities and press for demands.”

Munda’s personal secretary Sanjay Basu said: “The CM will leave Ranchi on May 28 and return on June 10. He is accompanying his sons, suffering from sickle cell anemia, a genetic disorder.”

Cong reaches out to Karuna, says all is well EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE NEW DELHI, MAY 24

ITH the Congress going all out to mollify DMK patriarch M Karunanidhi, sending many senior leaders to call on him during his two-day stay in Delhi, the two parties appeared to have decided to paper over their differences and unease over Kanimozhi’s arrest in connection with the 2G spectrum scam.

Meanwhile, Karunanidhi returned to Chennai on Tu esday without meeting Congress president Sonia Gandhi. Senior DMK leader T R Baalu said that Karunanidhi was “very busy” in Delhi and therefore, could not meet Sonia.

“It is absolutely wrong (to talk about a rift). There is no problem. He (Karunanidhi) had no time. He had to meet three-four lawyers. He was very busy. We are fighting a legal battle and at the end of the day we will emerge victorious,” Baalu told The Indian Express.

Home Minister P Chidambaram, AICC general secretary in charge of the state Ghulam Nabi Azad, Union Minister V Narayansamy and party MP Jayanthi Natarajan called on the DMK patriarch over the past two days.

Emerging from his meeting with Karunanidhi on Tu esday, Azad said, “Sonia Gandhi is concerned because Kanimozhi being a woman is in jail.

The fact is that one cannot do anything. All these have no effect on DMK-Congress alliance.

Karunanidhi is a man of political standing and also a man of political understanding. He knows well that the Supreme Court is monitoring the case and a special court is looking into it. He also knows the opinion of the Government of India, as it is not interfering in any of the cases, including the Kalmadi case. I am happy Karunanidhi understands it all. The Congress has no role to play here.” Jayanthi Natarajan said that Karunanidhi had told her that Kanimozhi was fine and she is prepared to fight the case legally.

“One thing needs to be clearly understood. We are extremely sensitive on the issue of assassination of our leader. There should be no attempt to politicise such a dastardly incident.

People should refrain from trying to politicise a tragedy of proportions which are undefinable,” said Congress spokesman Manish Te wari.

Asked about Karunanidhi’s decision not to meet the Congress president, he said, “Karunanidhi is also a father apart from being a political leader and the pain of a father in such circumstances needs to be appreciated and understood by all…Only the former Ta mil Nadu CM or his representative can give a reply on what his programme was in Delhi.”

2G accused Kanimozhi’s half-brother M K Stalin and mother Rajathi Ammal met her in court on Tuesday. Delhi High Court issued notices to the CBI on her plea for bail.

NEW DELHI: The Delhi High Court on Tu esday sought responses from the CBI on the bail pleas of DMK MP Kanimozhi and Kalaignar TV MD Sharad Kumar in the 2G spectrum case.

Issuing notice to the CBI for May 30, Justice Ajit Bharihoke also asked it to file a status report detailing the stage of investigation and the judicial proceedings in the case on the next date of hearing.

Kanimozhi and Kumar had approached the High Court on Monday with their bail applications after the Special CBI Court had refused the relief to them and ordered their arrest on May 20.

Meanwhile, Kanimozhi met her half brother M K Stalin when she appeared in the court of O P Saini at Patiala House Court complex here. Kanimozhi smiled at her husband Aravindan. As Stalin saw her walking near his seat, he asked “how are you doing?” Her answer was just a smile and all three stood for a while before taking their seats. Litigation and the judicial proceedings in the case on the next date of hearing.

Kanimozhi and Kumar had approached the High Court on Monday with their bail appli cations after the Special CBI Court had refused the relief to them and ordered their arrest on May 20.

Meanwhile, Kanimozhi met her half brother M K Stalin when she appeared in the court of O P Saini at Patiala House Court complex here. Kanimozhi smiled at her husband Aravindan. As Stalin saw her walking near his seat, he asked “how are you doing?” Her answer was just a smile and all three stood for a while before taking their seats. ENS/PTI

NEW DELHI: Swan Telecom promoter Shahid Usman Balwa, an accused in 2G spectrum allocation scam, was on Tuesday refused bail by a Delhi court which said he had failed to “make out a case” for his release from jail in view of the apprehension that witnesses could be influenced. Special CBI Judge O P Saini, exclusively dealing with the 2G case, also dismissed the bail pleas of Balwa’s cousin Asif Balwa and Rajeev Aggarwal, accused of facilitating Rs 200 crore bribe to Kalaignar TV.

Asif Balwa and Aggarwal are directors of Kusegaon Fruits and Ve getables Pvt Ltd in which Shahid Balwa also holds a stake.

The court said the allegation against the three accused are “grave” and there are supporting evidence on record against them.

Fugitive underworld don Dawood Ibrahim has postponed the wedding reception of his son, Moin, next week. MUMBAI: Fugitive underworld don Dawood Ibrahim has postponed the wedding reception of his son, Moin, next week. Dawood is busy trying to protect himself in Pakistan and trace the person who fired outside his brother’s house in Mumbai last week.

Sources close to the Dawood family in Mumbai said he has been going through a tough time since al-Qaida’s former chief Osama bin Laden’s death.

While India has demanded that Dawood Ibrahim be handed over to them, a shootout outside the house of his younger brother, Iqbal Kaskar, has left the don puzzled. Kaskar was not present when the firing occurred but his bodyguard, Arif Bael, was killed in the attack.

“We have learnt that the nikah will take place as per the schedule on May 27, a Friday,” a source close to the Dawood family in Mumbai said. “The wedding reception was to be held on May 28. However, due to the ongoing difficulties, Dawood has postponed the reception and a new date has not been fixed yet.”

PRAJA (BENGAL) 23 hrs ago (04:55 PM) he is scared of his own people ISI and CO. Agree (8)Disagree (1)Recommend (1) Jamawat (India) 23 hrs ago (04:44 PM) Fatiiiiiiiiiii Agree (5) Sid (Sydney) 24 May, 2011 10:08 AM For all his Street smartness, Dawood, has been Out – Foxed by US with their Navy Seal raid! He has still a has a strong Card to hold the reception as planned – if he invites President & PM of Pakistan. Their presence will take care of all Security issues! Agree (16)Recommend (5) Sunil Kaboo (NOIDA) 24 May, 2011 08:49 AM It appears that US is now feared by terror crime combine after successful elimination of Osama. A decisive action is always welcome. Dawood should be finding his own medicine of crime somewhat tasting bitter. Agree (9)Recommend (3) Piyush (Kolkata) 24 May, 2011 12:21 AM If India were USA, Dawood would have been under custody long back. It is the sheer unwillingness of the congress government for it’s vote bank politics and Dawood’s friendship with few of the congress leaders which is allowing Dawood a free life. We should not blame Pakistan only knowing that evil is always there to inflict injury on India. Agree (30)Disagree (2)Recommend (9) SUNIL (mumbai) replies to Piyush 5 hrs ago (10:50 AM) What about kasab ,afsalguru & many more.Nothing has been done,what if they bring dawood to INDIA, he will be more safe here.Instead we should keep that issue aside & concentrate on the MONEY which is kept in SWISS BANK. Agree (3)Recommend (1) winter-wine (India) 23 May, 2011 10:02 PM People who do wrong will always live in fear. Agree (13)Recommend (5) sts (India) replies to winter-wine 24 May, 2011 11:35 AM Now a days People who does good also lives in fear because of the corrupt and rowdys occupied world. Agree (9)Recommend (3) Nirmal (England) 23 May, 2011 08:20 PM Remember Dawood was defecto cheif minister of Maharashtra ruling the state during his strict control of the state, its police and its politicians? Even now being away from Mumbai and Maharashtra his influence power is no less beacause he has his men police and politicians serving him with full obedience. Agree (24)Disagree (2)Recommend (6) choks (Pune) 23 May, 2011 07:45 PM Dawood can fill the shoes of Osama and America will need another 10 years to kill him …… but then what is the Pakistan doing to help him with atleast his son’s wedding reception ? Pakistan ki to adat hai …. jiska khao usi ko maaro …. Dawood should better find safer place. Agree (4)Disagree (3) G.Ramachandran (MUMBAI) 23 May, 2011 06:14 PM All those who feel enamoured about the glamour of Mr.Dawood Ibrahim, should realise that his is nothing but a dog’s life. He lives in greater fear than which he is supposedly to be casting on others. Agree (13)Recommend (5) CHOTA RAJAN (INDIA) 23 May, 2011 05:53 PM CHOTA RAJAN Agree (4)Disagree (4)Recommend (1) GONDO (MOON) 23 May, 2011 05:50 PM Easy Game take his Family Hostage who lives in Mumbay, then tell him to surrender or every Hour one of them get executed. Agree (11)Disagree (2)Recommend (7) Ghengiz (Mum) 23 May, 2011 05:16 PM da_WOOD is aBIG Paper Tiger ! He is a petty criminal who ran out of India like a rat..and made money by smuggling financed by dubai local businessmen. Now with money he plays dirty..media has made a big paper tiger out of him… Agree (16)Disagree (3)Recommend (6) Vipul (canada) 23 May, 2011 05:06 PM Dawood come back to inldia… Sharad pawar and co. will protect you…look Kasab and afzal are enjoying in jails of india… Ha, Ha, ha…… Agree (7)Disagree (1)Recommend (1) Raaj (Bangalore) 23 May, 2011 04:54 PM Dawood is being given the taste of the dish which he used to give others forcibly. God once again proved that no matter how strong and how wealthy (earned thru wrong means) a day comes when u will have to go thru the same. can he call himself a Don when he cant even celebrate his sons wedding. His condition is worse than the condition of a slum dweller..Atleast a slum dweller doesnt live at the mercy of others… Shame on you dawood.. What Bhai… khel khatam…. Agree (17)Recommend (9) PV Menon (Kochi) 23 May, 2011 04:38 PM Hope Dawood doesnt get married again in Pakistan to ease his tensions. At this rate he is likely to forget his son. All such criminals do. Dawood, celebrate your son’s wedding in India if you are a man.

chotta (houston) 23 May, 2011 04:07 PM dawood ke fathe gayi Agree (14)Disagree (1)Recommend (9) Ramneek Sharma (Sydney) 23 May, 2011 04:00 PM dont worry Dawood ,why you are scared ? Our Prime minister Mauni Baba assure all terrorist Bhai s that India is not like America we will never cross border and Bhai you have Sharad Pawar number three in cabinet when he was CM Maharastra you grow from slums to Big King> Agree (2)Recommend (1) pradeep bijlwan (Ft. Lauderdale) 23 May, 2011 04:00 PM I am sure we all need to know how we can help public in India and Pakistan without being trouble by people like Dawood (practically he had not done anything great to Pakistan and what he had done in past in India cannot be forgive) …let pray God for the judgement .. Disagree (2)Recommend (1) J.Chandrasekhar (Bangalore) 23 May, 2011 03:25 PM Poor Dawood! He would have been safer in India!

John (Mumbai) 23 May, 2011 03:21 PM What is Dawood worried about?? Dubai is his second home, and our Government is so corrupt that if Dawood pays the right price, he can host the Party right in New Delhi. Agree (2)Recommend (2) Ravi Narayan (Chennai) 23 May, 2011 03:18 PM Run Dawood, Run. Agree (8)Disagree (1)Recommend (6) Man from Boiled Beans City (Bangalore) 23 May, 2011 03:09 PM Best way to get him is to Kidnap Salman Khan and in return ask Pak to handover him to us….Simple…

anil dharurkar (delhi) 23 May, 2011 02:16 PM i dont think dawood is worried for a reception in pak, he is able to organize reception or wedding in india without knowing home ministry. Recommend (1) Sumit (Chennai) 23 May, 2011 02:16 PM I wish DAWOOD attacks on US and US GOVT kill him, that the only way we can kill him otherwise he can attact any no of times to india and nothing will happen, india will keep crying infornt of US , “Dekho Dekho pakistan ne maara”… GOD help only those who help themself Agree (1) jayaraj (kolkata) 23 May, 2011 02:03 PM Dawood,you and your likes survive by inducing fear among the most innocent civilians and any organised force of any civilized country find it difficult to blow your den because they care for their citizens safety . But you think it is your heroism- DON. Why are you running away like a Chooah(rat). Be bold .Walk on the streets of Mumbai.It is nobler to surrender and get arrested now ,than to die nasty. Recommend (1) Raja (Mumbai) 23 May, 2011 01:52 PM Dawood is just a COWARD, hiding Pakistan. Jaisa karega waisa hi bharega. Teri bhi maut najdik hai.Ye jeena bhi kya jeena usese atcha hai tu suicide kar le. Recommend (1) indian (dubai) 23 May, 2011 01:49 PM i stay in dubai…i know 1 dawood nephew sajid….he owns a company known as AL WASEEF building materials in dubai hardware market….many times i have given complain in indian embassey regarding d black money of dawood in this company….once even i saw chota shakeel there….yet still no action is taken….tel no of this company is 009714-2224242 Agree (27)Disagree (2)Recommend (20) jennybay (heaven) replies to indian 23 May, 2011 03:17 PM Dawood’s brother is free in India, whats wrong in Dawoods nephew having a business in Dubai,if you don’t like it, come back to India Agree (4)Disagree (2)Recommend (1) Raadha.J (Bangalore) replies to indian 23 May, 2011 02:11 PM Though you did not reveal your identity, your statement gets the automatic credibility as we have such useless Govt which could not even execute the SC orders on the terrorist like Afzal Guru who is enjoying at the tax payers’ money! Agree (24)Disagree (4)Recommend (16) bmk (HYD) 23 May, 2011 01:38 PM With law makers like Kalmadi, A Raja, Kani …, I think Dawood is better-off shifting back to India. It would be very easy for him to buys off our parliamentarians and stay coolly in Tihar in 5-star comfort. From Tihar, he can run his business and enjoy all his family functions too without any issues. I think track record of Indian Police & CBI is better when it comes to protecting important people like Dawood, Hasan Ali, Kalmadi, etc. Agree (25)Disagree (1)Recommend (17) tony (australia) 23 May, 2011 01:35 PM Dawood like Osama will one fine day meet his fate but the sad part is that he will never be able to get into the clutches of indian authorities and the happy news is that if ever he is taken by the indians – then he will face a few thousand counts of cases and will die peacefully in some jail. So why worry . Such is life in the subcontinent of India and Pak Agree (23)Disagree (1)Recommend (17) Bops (Bombay) 23 May, 2011 01:33 PM Dawood tu bi marega.. Its a matter of time. Agree (29)Disagree (1)Recommend (16) Subbu (Bangalore) 23 May, 2011 01:27 PM Looks like Dawood is trying to trick India by saying that the wedding reception is put on hold. Dal mein kuch to kala hai… I didn’t understand one thing. Dawood is in the wanted list. His brother is having a house in Mumbai and I am hearing about the shooting that happened recently. How can his brother own a house in Mumbai and leave peacefully whilst Dawood is in India’s wanted list…hmmm…quite confusing…

INDIAN (Chennai) 23 May, 2011 01:24 PM Even Indian GOVT will know the place, time, Venue, and every other detail about him, still nothing is gonna happen, becoz our GOVT is least bothered abt this, PAK will again say “he is not in pakistan” and guess what in next few months INDIA will invite PAK for a TEA. Shameless GOV. i have no hope from this GOVT, if they can invite PAK after 26/11 attack they can do anythg. i think time is near wen our PM will bend and offer his *** to PAK Agree (18)Disagree (2)Recommend (5) KAMALENDU ROY ROY (Kolkata) replies to INDIAN 23 May, 2011 01:39 PM What India needs is a PM named Mr. Narendra Modi. He do possess the ability to deal with Pakistan in the right way. Agree (20)Disagree (9)Recommend (13) AH (Patna) replies to KAMALENDU ROY ROY 23 May, 2011 05:32 PM Mr Kamalendu ! anomalous Modi is unfit for the post, you have suggested. Because of Modi, we will generate thousands of Dawood, with our own hands in India itself, then we will have no chance to controle and establish peace in our country. Modi is also propagating terror in gujrat like Dawood in Mumbai. So, we need a PM of good character like Mahatma Gandhi, who can unite all the indians and fill the hearts of every Indian with Justice, Love, Peace and Prosperity. Jai Hind !!! Agree (1)Disagree (3)Recommend (2) vins (delhi) replies to KAMALENDU ROY ROY 23 May, 2011 02:12 PM kamdhenu roy,this is just imagination narendra modi will do this,what big work of gujrat riots modi done same is done by congress ministers also in 84 sikh riots,that if become PM,same was there before BJP came to power in the past,what it did when it was in power same strategy for indo-pak relations nothing was change ,modi shouts now ,cause he is aspiring to be PM,if he become PM he will realise its not say to do then say,lots of consideration,diplomacy,world politics,india dont have much options,he will also do same what most of goverment is doing or done just think and tell what could indian govt do,should it attack pak or war with it,is that solution or act diplomatically and with some patient as is working now and bring true face of pak to world Agree (1)Disagree (1)Recommend (1) INDIAN replies to KAMALENDU ROY ROY 23 May, 2011 02:01 PM 100% agreed bro, Hs is the last hope for our nation, i am not saying that he is saint but he is just bad among all worst politicians Agree (7)Disagree (6)Recommend (4) koke (chennai) replies to INDIAN 23 May, 2011 02:32 PM At the least he has the spine to stand erect for issues that he believes in…essential for a country’s security. He has also proven his mettle in economically growing Gujarat in a big way. A person who is fearless in taking the “most privileged” family and their stooges..!As for the so-called fundamentalism, Congress is no better since they have all along followed appeasement politics which are just a different shade of communalism.On any day will vote and support for Modi..Jai HO! Agree (6)Recommend (6) sanat (Pune) 23 May, 2011 01:11 PM I really do not understand why the hell the family members of Dawood Ibrahim are roaming freely in INDIAN. Put all of them behind bars. They are allowed to attend the wedding ceremony in Dubai.. That is simply “Ridiculous”. Indian Government does not have the guts send the people to Dubai and arrest Dawood. And look at his brother..who is he and why he is having bodyguards. Is he a VIP or any Prominent personality. Put all these Bastrerds behind Jail, but again INDIAN GOVT. does not have guts to do this , because most of the politicians have link with “DAWOOD BHAI”.

Timir Chatterjee (DCM Ramgarh) 23 May, 2011 12:26 PM We wonder that Dawood is till absconding, and living in disguise in Pakshitan, He is real coward to face the notorious challenges thrown to India. Days are not so far to fix his destiny by Indians. Agree (20)Disagree (2)Recommend (9) raj (india) 23 May, 2011 12:16 PM Many dawoods are in india….. Kalmadi and all corrupted politions are dawoods hands. All corrupted money goes to Him. SO better start doing encounter of all these politions, celebrities and industrialist who are directly or indirectly liked to him. Later will be easy to kick him out of dda world.. Agree (1)Recommend (1) HK Mohanty (Orissa) 23 May, 2011 11:41 AM Govt. of India should immediately arrange the security of Dawood and his family members.Friends,dont you think Pakistan is a bolder country than India? And their intelligence agency ISI is far more ahead of all our agencies?See their guts and intelligence.They cauase havoc to us.They protect and pamper our most-wanted fugitives.Whereas our premier agency can not prepare a list fugitives,can not crack simple cases like Arushi’s murder….and not to talk of out govt.They bow down before Pakistan and are intimidated by them.Shame on these eunuchs!

aman (delhi) 23 May, 2011 11:34 AM put as much rdx into him as he had used for killing innocents in mumbai. Agree (26)Disagree (1)Recommend (17) ajay (Pune) 23 May, 2011 11:28 AM Our Govt is sleeping……I think every indian should stop paying taxes which are used for polititcian purpose. Being everyone know about dawood’s movement still nobady dares to arrest this fellow. Something is drastically wrong with out govt. Agree (26)Disagree (3)Recommend (11) KAMALENDU ROY ROY (Kolkata) replies to ajay 23 May, 2011 01:41 PM When a bunch among all Indian politicians are money suckers and illiterate, I don’t expect much from them. Agree (4)Disagree (1)Recommend (2) jennybay (heaven) replies to KAMALENDU ROY ROY 23 May, 2011 03:21 PM The Bongs are one of the biggest cowards on the face of earth, they are even scared of their wives I have heard Agree (1)Disagree (2) Monawar Alam (Saudia) replies to ajay 23 May, 2011 01:10 PM Dawood is not a terrorists, because it was reaction of communal riots and his properties was destroyed. So it was only a reaction, main cause was Shiv Sena, who were involved in communal riots but TADA COURT followed the instructions of Shiv Sena and marked Dawood as terrorists. So it is the dishonesty of TADA court with the country for punishment of Dawood as terrorists only because he is muslim. But there is no punishment for Raj Thackery and Bal. Thackery when they killed large number of North Indians. What role TADA played for the safety of North Indians. So such types of happening with minorities generally in India. Agree (1)Disagree (2)Recommend (1) BB (Phx) 23 May, 2011 11:25 AM Journalist gathered lot of information… then why can’t he/she share the info where the reception was being planned and whereabouts of Dawood? Agree (20)Recommend (7) INDIAN (Chennai) replies to BB 23 May, 2011 12:07 PM Even Indian GOVT will know the place, time, Venue, and every other detail about him, still nothing is gonna happen, becoz our GOVT is least bothered abt this, PAK will again say “he is not in pakistan” and guess what in next few months INDIA will invite PAK for a TEA. Shameless GOV. i have no hope from this GOVT, if they can invite PAK after 26/11 attack they can do anythg. i think time is near wen our PM will bend and offer his *** to PAK Agree (22)Disagree (2)Recommend (10) SID (kol) replies to INDIAN 23 May, 2011 01:49 PM There was a joke which goes like this ……. India has the best intelligence and police department in the world. Where Intelligence and police dept all over the world takes few hours, few days and few years to solve cases, in india we knew details even before the crime have happened. We help to facilitate crime then help crimial to go out of india then make hue and cry that they are outside india and by mistake if someone got caught we spends crores of income tax money of citizen to protect them, feel shy to punish them, wait so that someday something like kadhar happen and they get relieved. We can not hang two criminals for last 10 years and we want PAK to hand them 50. what are you gonna going to do with them.Min spending will be close to 5000 crores…..don’t you think they are better not being in india….. Agree (2)Recommend (1) sreayu (Bengaluru) 23 May, 2011 11:23 AM Joo Durta hain woh bilkul don nahi hain….:P Agree (18)Disagree (1)Recommend (10) Karthik (Bangalore) 23 May, 2011 11:16 AM Why is Dawood family still in Mumbai? Throw them all out! Guilty until proven innocent should be the norm for such families. His main financial gains are still coming from his businesses in India. How can that be unless his family is actively involved?! Our government should grow a spine, and our judiciary should grow some common sense. Agree (16)Disagree (1)Recommend (12) raj (Indi) replies to Karthik 23 May, 2011 12:19 PM Becuz he has a good relation with Senapati of shiv sena and other banglots of mumbai…… Agree (1)Disagree (4)Recommend (1) HK Mohanty (Bhubaneswar) replies to Karthik 23 May, 2011 11:44 AM Govt. of India should immediately arrange the security of Dawood and his family members.Friends,dont you think Pakistan is a bolder country than India? And their intelligence agency ISI is far more ahead of all our agencies?See their guts and intelligence.They cauase havoc to us.They protect and pamper our most-wanted fugitives.Whereas our premier agency can not prepare a list fugitives,can not crack simple cases like Arushi’s murder….and not to talk of out govt.They bow down before Pakistan and are intimidated by them.Shame on these eunuchs! Agree (10)Disagree (4)Recommend (8) Rahul N (Mumbai) 23 May, 2011 11:15 AM “Worried Dawood Ibrahim puts off son’s wedding reception”.. he could have it in China! They’ve befriended a terrorist nation .. so he has terrorist immunity! Agree (14)Disagree (2)Recommend (12) appavoo s Mallikondar (Hobart) 23 May, 2011 11:09 AM This spineless hunter has now become the hunted,wonder who cah lay claim on this beast of the underworld.Fancy that Agree (3)Recommend (3) killemall (countdowntoextinction) 23 May, 2011 11:02 AM your end is near…hide Agree (9)Disagree (1)Recommend (5) Raj (delhi) 23 May, 2011 10:44 AM I cant understand why TOI guys are making him a hero by calling him a DON rather all of the world has declared him as a Terrorist but these guys still call him a don seems that the writer of the article gets some favour for glorifying the terrorist Agree (18)Disagree (6)Recommend (13) Decoy (india) 23 May, 2011 10:43 AM cant understand how and why the enemy of the nation and his family still lives under security protection in our country… that too with political support! it happens only in india… seems like everyone is okay with it? instead our politicians are still asking for Dwd to be sent back to india! if it was me, he and his khandan would have been sent out into the desert he so loves that too without any water. seems like our own politicians are protecting him. starting with Pawar… Agree (16)Disagree (2)Recommend (9) Rahul (Pune) 23 May, 2011 10:41 AM Good Job Chota Rajan ! smoke out this coward Don out of Karachi Agree (13)Disagree (2)Recommend (6) BadaRajan (Malaysia) replies to Rahul 23 May, 2011 11:15 AM Unfortunately chota rajan happens to be a dalit so enjoys no support from mainline hindu politicians and hence dawood is being glorified by a certain political party to appease their vote banks Agree (1)Disagree (1)Recommend (1) Prithviraj Gopal (India) 23 May, 2011 10:37 AM Don has nothing to fear in India! He has the backing of powerful politicians, bolloywood glittery and even Mumbai police. See how the state government as well as the central Government protect his properties which are supposed to be confiscated and on the auction block. Even police is afraid to occupy those buildings. What will our PM and HM do if Pakistan obliges and extradites him? Put him in five star comforts in Arthur road jail pending trial for many years and then let him off because enough evidence could not be gathered for any of his nefarious activities including Mumbai blast. After releasing him they will also release all properties back to him. Later the Government may honour him with Padma award for his glorious and long services to Bollywood as producer, hero-heroin selector and many other unspeakable services. Dawood’s fears are unfounded. He has to fear only other gangsters. Agree (13)Disagree (2)Recommend (8) Chandrasekar (chennai) replies to Prithviraj Gopal 23 May, 2011 11:18 AM Thats why they dont want to bring him, Agree (1)Recommend (1) Javed (Dubai) 23 May, 2011 10:34 AM All that has been to done is to hire a company of mercanaries like blackwater to go after Dawood in Pakisthan. That way the government does not have to be constrained by international laws and courts. Agree (14)Recommend (8) Indians for harmony (India) 23 May, 2011 10:23 AM Killing – it is a fun. Other’s pain? It is a joke !!! But death comes in front of them……..RUN !!!!!!! Agree (10)Disagree (1)Recommend (7) Indi (Asia) 23 May, 2011 10:17 AM Dawood Ibrahim has always been a good muslim. Disagree (18) India (India) replies to Indi 23 May, 2011 11:20 AM Just like Osama Bin laden. Muslims like u r mentally sick. People with such mentality are a burden to this planet. Agree (14)Recommend (8) James Bond (US) 23 May, 2011 10:15 AM Big Achievement. Congress and UPA-2 cannot accomplish anything greater than this. Jammu and Kashmir is still occupied after 7 years of UPA Raj and nothing will be done besides timepass talks in remaining 3 years. Dawood bhai is alive, no problem, Dawood bhai is thriving, good for Congress and Sharad Pawar, Dawood bhai is in Pakistan, the list is wrong and screwed up, Dawood bhai’s sons wedding is postponed, canceled or rescheduled, YES…..big achievement for Mandmohan and he must be having champagne with Sonia Maino Gandhi. Yee…..ees……what an accomplishment for Indian voters and public. Hail Maino Gandhis…Mind blowing….great…. Agree (7)Recommend (4) mo (inida) replies to James Bond 23 May, 2011 12:13 PM The real Dawood (Sharad Power)is in India itself. This bloody as ho le has to be kicked first. Then the Dawood will surrender himself. If we want to be clean then we have to clear our house first. We are not doing. With Anna’s one blow Sharad Power fall on his feet, how many scandals he is holding 2G, Tomatoes, POTATOs, BCCI, … list will go on and on and on . . . now licking Sonia’s feet and everything. . . .Once went out of Congress becaz of her. If India wants really go clean, Sonia should first look up her collation partners. . . Mr. Karu family hold Malaysian telecom where does he got this money .. . one head ach has reduced great thanks to the people of Tamil Nadu . . . Now is Andhra is one more head ach … . the biggest head ach country facing is the Congress . . . Scams Government … . India should build special jails with latest high class facilities in Rajasthan deserts and put all these corrupt ones with all their relativeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s and family members how want to join him with LOOTED but without water (purifying agent as they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t reauired) Agree (3)Recommend (1) Shubhchintak (India) 23 May, 2011 10:15 AM Now, why do you need proof Central govt that dogwood is not in porkistan? The Indian govt should seal his residence in mumbai and also clean off all the porkis who support dogwood. Agree (14)Disagree (1)Recommend (10) Col. Abdur Razak (kabul/ Karachi) 23 May, 2011 10:08 AM No one can keep him alive beyond few days. The “shot” is close to his forehead. Agree (16)Disagree (1)Recommend (14) FkofNaveed (pakistan) 23 May, 2011 10:05 AM he looks like goglu moglu pasha Agree (15)Disagree (1)Recommend (7) MOUTHPIECE (odisha puri) 23 May, 2011 10:05 AM D-company is most furious for global peace. there needs to be another Abatabad strike by O-company in Pak to finish him. MM-company has no guts due to being a puppet PM Agree (4)Recommend (3) nicholas88p (mumbai) 23 May, 2011 09:51 AM The great DON is afraid …. . as you sow, you shall reap. I would like to hear ram gopal verma’s take on this. For he is the one who loves glamourising the ugly. Agree (14)Disagree (1)Recommend (7) Sohrab Ahmed (Rawalpindi) 23 May, 2011 09:50 AM I am a pakistani mohajir and I can tell you these people treat me and my family like shit. Indian muslims are better off. Thank your grand fathers for staying there. Agree (32)Disagree (2)Recommend (22) Abdul (New Delhi) replies to Sohrab Ahmed 23 May, 2011 10:12 AM Its a fake post with a fake name. Muslims are in a condition they have chosen for them selves, if they have taken education and opened their minds they are in good position. My cousins in PAK are in high ranking GOVT jobs, so am I here in India with a Big MNC. Agree (1)Disagree (12)Recommend (2) Sohrab Ahmed (Rawalpindi) replies to Abdul 23 May, 2011 11:02 AM shubhaan Allah. It’s very easy to say what you have when you have it. Look at fellow Mohajirs in Rawalpindi and what do they have apart from insults from punjabis? We don’t have 5 millions to get a govt job. Agree (14)Disagree (1)Recommend (8) true indian (india) 23 May, 2011 09:45 AM i dont know why is he putting himself in danger zone as pakistan became now, its is high time he should comeback in india, indian jail are as good as his karanchi mansion and present govt will be glad to serve him. good food complete immunity from attack and our own yuvaraj will be PM soon, his mentor diggi raja will also be there, then what to be affraid of. lets come, all bomb blast that u r accused of might hav been done by home grown safrron terrorist. pls come back Agree (16)Disagree (7)Recommend (11) br.v (Bangalore) 23 May, 2011 09:41 AM So much crystal clear news about this devil. This A***H*** is right under Papistan’s A*** and yet Papistan cant smell it. And the reason is very obvious. Agree (16)Disagree (3)Recommend (8) Vibhu Bansal (New Delhi) 23 May, 2011 09:38 AM Who needs Dawood with Sonia and Manmohan around. They are bigger threats to our country. Agree (3)Disagree (1)Recommend (3) Naveed (USa) 23 May, 2011 09:27 AM Pakistan should handover Dawood and in return ask for Colonel Purhoit and Swami Aseemanad. Agree (9)Disagree (26)Recommend (5) Shaheed (USA) replies to Naveed 23 May, 2011 11:13 AM Oh! the old shamelessPakistaniDog is back again on INDIAN forums. Poor chap, beggars dont have forums back in disgraced lumpen failed nation Terroristan come to Indian forums again and again despite repeated humiliations. PakiPigs like MullahNaveed of course does not mind as they love toLickIndian boots and wash their feet to earn some dollars and tame their pathetic empty stomach. Beggar Terroristan cannot afford to offer the same for the beggars and so they come here to do the same…ha ha Agree (8)Recommend (6) Raj (Bangalore) replies to Naveed 23 May, 2011 10:36 AM How Dawood’s activities are related to that of Purohit and Assemanand?Other than that India spends crores to treat Kasab in Jail. I doubt Pakistan president’s monthly expenditure will not be equal to that of Kasab’s. No way a begger country like Pakistan can afford that kind of treament to our nationals. Agree (8)Recommend (4) Naveed replies to Raj 24 May, 2011 04:35 AM India will never punish Colonel Purhoit and Swami Aseemanad. They will never be brought to trial. India has never in its history Punished a Hindu who has committed crimes against minorities whether they are Sikh, Muslim, Christian or the Tribal People. India’s record of punishing any Hindu is pathetic. For your information please share the name of any Indian Hindu who has been punished for the Genocide of Sikhs in 1984? Please name one! 20,000 Sikhs were brutally murdered. Has Justice been delivered to the Sikhs? Disagree (1) jotendra (India) replies to Naveed 23 May, 2011 09:59 AM Dear Sir, Your analysis is brilliant and none can think like you. Dawood did crime on Indian soil and fled to Pakistan and hence needs to be sent back. Purohit and Aseemanand, did crime on Indian soil and are facing the law and are in custody isnt it. So please advise me sir, if my analysis is right as you are staying in USA. Agree (5)Recommend (5) Bush (Tora Bora) replies to Naveed 23 May, 2011 09:53 AM You should ask for Obama. He went into your home and killed your dearest Osama and you could do nothing. So sad …ghar me ghus ke bachche ko maar diya aur tum hilate reh gaye…. Agree (17)Disagree (1)Recommend (14) Vikram (Bangalore) replies to Naveed 23 May, 2011 09:42 AM Purohith and Aseemanand did not bomb any Pakistan city with the help of Indian intelligence. They are Not being kept in a safe house in a military compound like Dawood but are in jail and being investigated. Don’t make stupid comparisons. Agree (21)Recommend (13) Ne Rt Rt (Delhi) replies to Naveed 23 May, 2011 09:41 AM India is not interested in Dawood .. they are interested in his SON/DAUGHTER .. and of course Pakistan can take son/daughter of Purhoit/Aseemand Agree (2)Disagree (10) Raj (California,USA) replies to Naveed 23 May, 2011 09:38 AM What have they done to Pakistan? Agree (4)Recommend (4) Suresh (Mumbai) 23 May, 2011 09:11 AM In Karachi and Pak, muslims are more of a danger to other Muslims than any one else. They are attacking the navy base now. Dawood should be aware of fellow muslims. If he comes back to India, Rahul and Sonia, MMS and Diggy will garland him and feed him kabobs for the rest of his life. Agree (22)Disagree (8)Recommend (15) sbk (Sydney) 23 May, 2011 09:09 AM May be cong Soniyaji & MMohanji should make representation in the wedding receiption .. personally they don’t take any action on the terrorists who r in india like kasab – DI & others on abroad….. and Chidabaram speaks like a college professor than a home minister… and cong party don’t have the g…ts to do any thing against these people because of vote & money to the Party Agree (27)Disagree (13)Recommend (14) smr (UAE) replies to sbk 23 May, 2011 01:28 PM Nor does BJP… they too were busy shaking hands with Parvez Musharraf. Only know how to shout like opposition from outside. Once they are in power, they are hardly any different than congress.

F Hell (Tu ki laina …) 23 May, 2011 08:57 AM It means that M Fker didnt recieve IPL money yet, all matches were fixed and Indian lost their precious money on betting. Agree (16)Disagree (3)Recommend (3) Dinesh N Patel (Los Angeles, Ca.) 23 May, 2011 08:55 AM Your days are numbered not from present Indian government, but upcoming Nrendra Modi administrations. Agree (2)Recommend (2) JACK (AJMER) 23 May, 2011 08:44 AM PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DAWOOD JUST TOUCH ONE AND ONLY SINGLE AMERICAN AND WAIT AND WATCH THE SHOW…… YOU WILL BE NEXT TARGET FOR OBAMA. EVEN IF YOU GO AND HIDE WHERE YOU CAME FROM. HE WILL PULL YOU OUT AND SEND YOU WHERE YOU BELONG TO……. YOU MOTHER EFKER Agree (25)Disagree (4)Recommend (14) panju_janpati (delhi) 23 May, 2011 08:42 AM imagine if a US newspaper had said, ‘Worried Osama puts off son’s wedding reception’. It would never happen because Osama would have been dead the very next day. So is Dawood really worried about his life? Yes, maybe, but only because of the US or his host Pakistan, but the answer is a definite no, if the reason is India. Agree (9)Disagree (2)Recommend (5) patrick (singapore) 23 May, 2011 08:36 AM Most Indians glorify thugs like Dawood and that is why they thrive. Only when the glorification of criminal abates, will its appeal be lost on young people. Agree (18)Disagree (4)Recommend (9) indian (india) 23 May, 2011 08:30 AM dawood shud be eliminated just like bin laden was eliminated… Agree (3)Recommend (2) K.G (Chennai) 23 May, 2011 08:29 AM haha. Son of a btcih does what he knows best …… Run away and hide. Why is this fugitive called as the Don anyway? He is more of a Moron. Agree (26)Disagree (1)Recommend (18) Abu Ibrahim (Dubai) 23 May, 2011 08:21 AM Has anybody noticed: the media still show pics of Dawood Ibrahim from the 1980′s! That is a good 30 years ago… By showing a young Dawood Ibrahim, media wants to create fear into the hearts of the people…like he is still active. Pretty sure, by now he must have grown weak and all set to kick the bucket somewhere. Or better still: has already done that! Agree (29)Disagree (3)Recommend (16) Vikram (Bangalore) replies to Abu Ibrahim 23 May, 2011 08:54 AM It doesn’t matter if he is about to die. Justice should be done by killing him. Same like Osama. Agree (15)Recommend (8) Ramesh Manghirmalani (Paris) 23 May, 2011 08:15 AM Dawood, You cannot foll all the people all the time

Natarajan (Chennai) 23 May, 2011 08:15 AM If just firing at Kaskar can have such a huge impact I am sure there are ways to pressurize Dawood to surrender himself to India. Catch Kaskar and make life hell for him.

Rahul (Mumbai) 23 May, 2011 08:10 AM I don’t understand why Dawood is in Pakistan.. USA may shoot him down any time. Best option for him is to come back to Mumbai where his friends Sharad Pawar and Sonai Gandhi, Digvijay Singh, Rahul etc. would give him z security cover claiming that his life is under threat from ‘Hindu radicals’. He can get antipicatory bail from obliging SC and stay happy forever. He can direct all terror attacks in India from Mumbai itself as long as he supports UPA and assures muslim votes for ‘secular’ parties. Like in Kerala and Assam once muslims become 20% they can have their own parties MPs/MLAs and become part of UPA and rule as Maharastra CM. In such situation why is he suffering in Pak? Hope kind PM MMS invites him to settle in Mumbai and invest in India itself for terrorism. Agree (33)Disagree (8)Recommend (22) Monawwar Alam (Saudia) replies to Rahul 23 May, 2011 01:47 PM Dawood Ibrahim is neither terrorists not dishonest with the country, Shiv Sena had done Bomb Blast 1993. Now Shiv Sena is killing North Indians since last three years, even though they are not terrorists. Actually, only minorities and 30% Hindus are honest with the country and 70% Hindus are totally dishonest with the nation. If Hindus are not dishonset with nation, then why they kept the countries funds in their personal account in foreign countries. 70% Hindus are ” Bahrupia”. Hindu had divided the country in 1947, Hindu had killed Mahatma Gandhi. So there are lots of examples of dishonesty of Hindus with the nation. For India, Hindus are danger than Britishers. But only 30% Hindus are honest and most of them are farmers. Agree (1)Disagree (3)Recommend (1) Krishna Kumar (Tellicherry) replies to Rahul 23 May, 2011 10:10 AM In any case the Congress will not send a Central minister as escort and help terrorists escape as the BJP did when they sent the great Jaswant Singh in a plane with an undisclosed ransom amount to Afghanistan. Comment by all means. But do not forget that the BJP was worse when they were in power. Why do you have to bring in Sonia and Rahul unnecessarily? Agree (6)Disagree (10)Recommend (2) mo (india) replies to Krishna Kumar 23 May, 2011 12:35 PM Congress dont required to send Becaz they themself are the OWNERS of D-Company Agree (3)Recommend (3) R K Bhat (Delhi) replies to Krishna Kumar 23 May, 2011 11:43 AM If God forbid this type of hijacking again takes place,Congress party will take same action which BJP took at that time but with difference. This time not S M Krishana will escort terriorsts but it will be PM Manmohan SinghW with huge ammount of money as ransom . Agree (3)Disagree (1)Recommend (2) R L Sas (Delhi) replies to Krishna Kumar 23 May, 2011 11:01 AM And if you were in the hijacted plane, your comments would not have been like this. Instead you would have praised the action taken by the then Govt. Agree (6)Disagree (1)Recommend (5) Raj (usa) replies to Rahul 23 May, 2011 08:20 AM YOu are absulutely correct. They all created him and would not be surprised if they are still in touch with him, especially Pawar. Agree (14)Disagree (4)Recommend (11) West Towel Towel (not near gslv launchpad) 23 May, 2011 08:04 AM manmohans foreign visit plan changed Agree (20)Disagree (6)Recommend (5) Indian (Reading (UK)) 23 May, 2011 07:51 AM It is such a sad state of affairs that this man’s family still lives in Mumbai and in full public and media glare. The other day I saw a TV clipping where Mr. kaskar was waving his hands like a politician from him home window, as if some respected national figure would have after surviving the assassination attempt. And I think.. God what is the hope for our country where close relatives of mass murderers like Dawood can live with such elan. God save our country. Agree (33)Disagree (1)Recommend (24) indian (india) replies to Indian 23 May, 2011 08:29 AM who do u think such people vote for? Agree (8)Recommend (2) Chinni (mumbai) replies to Indian 23 May, 2011 08:29 AM The Italians were leading such lives in the Mafia in Sicily and then USA. The family was always protected by the DON. Similarly, we have it in India. We have also imported an Italian expert, Madam Sonia to advise us on how it is done in Italy. Agree (4)Disagree (1)Recommend (4) Indian Muslims asking (USA) replies to Indian 23 May, 2011 08:11 AM If mass maderer Bal Thackeray can live in India then why not Iqbal Kaskar or Dowd Ibrahim?

vgeejay (Chennai) 23 May, 2011 07:43 AM Finally the heat is on and Dawood is writhing in pain. This is reaping time of what he sowed. India also should think different strategy in the case of all these criminals. If Pakistan honours our request for extradition it is okay otherwise go after the killer with all your might stealthily, if not being done already. It may be called unconventional and Human Rights Activists will die to defend these criminals without realizing or discharging their duties towards victims-long time no see Arundati Roy. After annihilation of the target play innocent and do not boast success and vehemently deny involvement. In fact BJP can give a helping hand in this. They may advice Hindutva activists to go against these known enemies living outside sheltered instead of killing our own citizens. They will have time for our citizens as these would not go anywhere. They can come back for them at leisure after they completely wipe out the criminals outside. But it would not fetch them ill-founded wealth votes and seat of power. This Sadhvis, ____Anandjis with some Lt Cols thrown in can take up this job. Additionally VHP International Secretaries, Universal Secretaries and space secretaries, particularly Tokhadia can go on this crusade. Agree (11)Disagree (5)Recommend (6) Pavithran (India) replies to vgeejay 23 May, 2011 03:03 PM What you are talking stupidity man, no work?????? wasting time write something practicable Agree (1) diggu (kerala) replies to vgeejay 23 May, 2011 01:06 PM hey man, you are recommending a national calamity, beware Disagree (1) vgeejay replies to diggu 23 May, 2011 02:45 PM Which Nation, If it is Indian Nation I shall pay undevided attention an if it Pak Nation ?!??!

Indian Muslims asking (USA) replies to vgeejay 23 May, 2011 08:14 AM Why Dowd Ibrahim is a criminal and mass maderer Bal thackeray is NOT a criminal? Disagree (1) Indian (USA) 23 May, 2011 07:40 AM hahaha .. phat gayeeee :) Agree (18)Disagree (3)Recommend (13) raja marthandam (chennai) 23 May, 2011 07:33 AM This fear of being hunted down and the eventual gory death he will have to face is real good punishment for him. for once he is scared down to his …. He has no guts to move around leave alone presiding over cricket matches in Dubai. Now Now who is there to challenge..??? come on Government of India hunt him and kill him slowly so that others will have a taste of what is forth coming. Agree (13)Recommend (5) Harikan (Lebanon) 23 May, 2011 07:24 AM Dear dawood, don’t worry, till Sonia’s UPA is firmly rooted in Delhi, nothing will happen to you or any of those terrorists belonging to your faith. The shoot out in Mumbai is a people initiative and the culprits were promptly handed over to CBI and police to ensure that all the details of their plans are unearthed. This will ensure that no such attempts will be made against your folk in future even by private iniatives. Agree (20)Disagree (5)Recommend (10) kishore (Hyderabad, India) 23 May, 2011 07:23 AM I am sure half the Bollywood industry would be there, dancing and “entertaining” Dawood. Impotent Indians deserve every bit of misery that comes their way because they are the ones who can’t get enough of politics, Bollywood heroes and heroines and cricket. Agree (22)Disagree (1)Recommend (12) jennybay (heaven) replies to kishore 23 May, 2011 03:31 PM You are one of the impotent’s,, Agree (1) Sree (Karachi) 23 May, 2011 07:21 AM Indian Military should shoot down the planes carrying him or his relatives out of Pakistan and to Dubai. Be bold like US. Agree (18)Disagree (4)Recommend (9) shyaam.madkholkar (trinidad) 23 May, 2011 07:19 AM Bring him home? and do what? treat him like a state guest? D Mafia is little danger till he is abroad, make efforts to rid the I Mafia, that is operating from within! Agree (13)Recommend (6) Chota Rajan (Bangkok) 23 May, 2011 07:17 AM Dawood Bhai is running with the hare and hunting with the hound…heady days coming to an end…. Agree (14)Recommend (6) Indian (USA) 23 May, 2011 07:16 AM this is ridiculous , TOI and Media have converted a gangster and terrorist like dawood into a bolywood celecerity. what do you mean by “sources clse to Dawoods family”. he is afreaking terrosrist and in hiding. stop giving that guy so much publicity Agree (16)Disagree (1)Recommend (6) goyal.ritu95 (NY) replies to Indian 23 May, 2011 07:32 AM Sir, This is Media’s job. Agree (1)Disagree (8)Recommend (1) Chota Rajan (Bangkok) 23 May, 2011 07:15 AM Dawood is now running with the hare and hunting with the hound….on the run heady days coming to an end… Agree (1)Recommend (1) Mao (Chennai) 23 May, 2011 07:12 AM Better Pakis pay for his food than Indian government serving him biryani. As for a raid, our cowardly leader and the traitor who owns him like a poodle will never have guts to do anything like that…where are the pictures of all our film stars standing in a private box with him during sharjah matches? Agree (11)Recommend (5) MAHESH (HYD) replies to Mao 23 May, 2011 12:26 PM LET HIM BE UNDER TENSION TILL HIS END IN PAKI Recommend (1) Avi (USA) 23 May, 2011 07:08 AM Hi Times Of India (TOI) I was the regular reader of your web based news paper “WAS” because of the annoying advertisements popping every time I open article to read. led me to search the news elsewhere. kindly do somthin of that irritating staff.. Thanx Agree (10)Recommend (5) Ramesh Manghirmalani (Paris) 23 May, 2011 07:08 AM India should send intelligence who will be at wedding in Canada and Pakistan and ask Canadian Govt to see which crooks come to wedding they might be part of Al Qeeda Agree (4)Recommend (1) Ashish (USA) 23 May, 2011 07:07 AM he has more firends in India among politcians, bureaucrats adn police than in Pakistan Agree (16)Disagree (1)Recommend (2) Sampath (USA) 23 May, 2011 06:59 AM There is no question that Dawood will be shot to death. The only question is by who – rival gang, Indian commandos, or others ? Agree (9)Recommend (2) Vineet (US) 23 May, 2011 06:55 AM I think Abottabad can be repeated again on May 28th as dawood will be there for sure .. may be in a burqa but will be there for sure. So I just pray for one more Abottabad on 28th of may in pakistan. Agree (15)Disagree (1)Recommend (7) Nasthik (Delhi) replies to Vineet 23 May, 2011 07:08 AM Yes we need to do that. At the same time, it needs to be repeated for Bal Thackeray also who is responsible for the reprisal from Dawood, as Bal Thackeray killed 3000 innocent Muslims, raped numerous women, burned thousands of houses. I think same goes for Modi and also the supporters of Dawood Ibrahim. We should not show any partiality if we want to succeed. If we have double standards, we will not get support from the 23crore Muslims of India. If we want to have a United India… then we need should not show any mercy either to Dawood Ibrahm, Bal Thackeray, Tiger Memom, Chota Rajan and Modi. Jai Hind! Vande Mataram! Agree (15)Disagree (22)Recommend (9) Correction (Nagarcoil) replies to Nasthik 23 May, 2011 09:36 AM F^ck the muslims and their support. They asked for a separate state and they got one. They should have left for pakistan. They still have that option now. But those who are staying here, should show that they give a flying F^ck for pakistan. Let the muslims show first and then the rest of India will respond. Thats the way to go. The muslims still think that saudis and the pakis will accept them with open arms. Bal Thackeray zindabad. Narendra Modi zindabad. BJP f^ck all ( they accompanied the terrorist on the plane ) Congress most f^ck all. Agree (12)Disagree (7)Recommend (7) indica (india) replies to Nasthik 23 May, 2011 07:47 AM Atleast Modi and Thackrey do not support another country Agree (15)Disagree (8)Recommend (7) indica (India) replies to Nasthik 23 May, 2011 07:42 AM Don’t talk nonsense…India is not Saudi Arabia.India is for Hindus. Agree (18)Disagree (13)Recommend (9) Vineet replies to Nasthik 23 May, 2011 07:23 AM First thing India has only 16 crore muslims so don’t speak digvijay singh or ajam khan’s language. second thing Bal thakrey or the GUJRAT KING NARENDRA MODI never ever supoorted pakistan so don’t even try to compare them with a terrorist dawood ibrahim.. I wish and pray 24/7 then all the properties and people who are associated to dawood die with blood cancer and aids. Agree (13)Disagree (6)Recommend (5) Gujju (India) replies to Nasthik 23 May, 2011 07:19 AM Dont talk crap!! You want to compare the likes of Dawood Ibrahim, the enemy of India, the cause of the mumbai bomb blasts, the 26/11 attacks, the killer of so many innocents with a cheif minister who has proven the best development that any state couldnt have?? Which warped world are you living in man?? Pseudo Secularists like you have been the reason why the likes of Dawood and his political Conress masters survive! Agree (14)Disagree (7)Recommend (7) Pakistani (New York) 23 May, 2011 06:35 AM Just a suggestion, now govt is trying to get Dawood. Why don’t they arrest his family here in India, put them jail, even have a fake encounter of his brother and see what happens, put his crony business partners behind the bar, arrest Mahesh Bhatt and his family, or send Pooja Bhatt to service Dawood. That would do the trick. Agree (35)Disagree (3)Recommend (22) India (USA) replies to Pakistani 23 May, 2011 07:00 AM Are you joking? India’s PM, Sonia and Rahulbaba could be on his payroll. If that is the case, do you expect Sonia & Co. to get a warrant issued and have this holy trinity put in jail? Agree (15)Disagree (6)Recommend (8) Manoj (Raipur) replies to India 23 May, 2011 09:17 AM funny that BJP 5 years in power couldn’t do much either. easy to blame everything on MMS/Sonia, isn’t it?? Agree (6)Disagree (13)Recommend (4) Indian replies to Manoj 23 May, 2011 09:46 AM Yes, current ruling party is responsible for what goes on now. MMS perhaps should not be blamed as he is kept on leash by the Italian and he barks only when ordered to. Agree (4)Recommend (5) P Patil (Mumbai) replies to Pakistani 23 May, 2011 06:48 AM DAWOOD CRONIES behind bar? Many of them will be political leaders of Mumbai and getting them will result in UPA Govt falling. MMS the PM, has openly stated that he doesn’t want that to happen. MMS remaining PM is more important than the NATION Agree (16)Disagree (3)Recommend (5) Radha.J (Bangalore) replies to Pakistani 23 May, 2011 06:44 AM Your idea is good, but we have several friends of D like Pawar and Ahmed Patel and Diggy etc, who would get heart attack for any inconvenience to their friend! Agree (25)Disagree (2)Recommend (11) Ravi (USA) 23 May, 2011 06:34 AM I agree with you Raadha J., I think he will turn out to be another Kasab, enjoying Indian food and wasting our money. better keep him outside only. Agree (17)Disagree (2)Recommend (10) Yogesh (Japan) replies to Ravi 23 May, 2011 06:46 AM no Ravi/Radhaa ji Dawood is more famous celebrity so he will be given more royal treatment than what Kasab received or is receiving…so every common in India do not want Dawood to be indian jail…instead encounter like Osama’s in Pakistan would be best option… Agree (15)Recommend (9) Raadha.J (Bangalore) 23 May, 2011 06:19 AM I am against the Govt plea for deportation of Dawood to India. I don’t want the taxes paid by me to be used for different biryanis in his 5 star stay in the so called jail Agree (27)Recommend (15) Dinesh (USA) 23 May, 2011 05:33 AM Bhaag Dawood, CHHOTA RAJAN is Coming. Agree (13)Disagree (1)Recommend (5) Jay (India) 23 May, 2011 05:25 AM Look at the information the world has for this man including our goverment. They still do nothing about it. Agree (4)Recommend (1) JJ (INDIA) 23 May, 2011 05:19 AM bhag bonshadi ke aandhi aayi ;) Agree (31)Disagree (1)Recommend (23) Dinesh (USA) replies to JJ 23 May, 2011 05:32 AM And that Aandhi is CHHOTA RAJAN. Agree (8)Recommend (3) Indian (India) 23 May, 2011 05:02 AM So Dawood’s brother living in India and running his brother’s business and our government was aware about that but was able to fool 1.2 billion Indians for 18 years…its high time now…there is a need of revolution like Libya and Egypt….bring all corrupt politicians to public justice and purify the country. Agree (14)Recommend (9) commonaadmi (Andheri Nagari) 23 May, 2011 04:42 AM * Correction – Since Dawood has postponed the reception, Respectable Sir Digvijay Singh can now invite him to have the reception in this house. Because Dawood is the only person who will *Not have Black money, as he prints only Fake Money. Agree (47)Disagree (3)Recommend (31) commonaadmi (Andheri Nagari) 23 May, 2011 04:17 AM Since Dawood has postponed the reception, Respectable Sir Digvijay Singh can now invite him to have the reception in this house. Because Dawood is the only person who will have Black money, as he prints only Fake Money. Agree (31)Disagree (5)Recommend (12) MARIAM (AUSTRALIA) replies to commonaadmi 23 May, 2011 05:26 AM OH SORRY THEY JUST FORGOT TO INVITE THE CONGRESS PARTY THATS WHY ITS WAS POSPONED, CURRUPTION HAS TO HAVE ITS SHARE, Agree (12)Disagree (1)Recommend (8) azhar (france) 23 May, 2011 03:19 AM Osama Bin Laden 100 Saal Tak Jee Leta. AGAR. AGAR Woh Kasab k saat Mumbai Aaaya Hota………… Agree (79)Disagree (7)Recommend (51) DB (Hyderabad) replies to azhar 23 May, 2011 06:38 AM Sad, but unfortunately true… humare logon ko maar ke, hamare hi paise (tax payers money) se suqoon aur aishon-aaraam ki zindagi jeete :( Agree (11)Recommend (5) Sashidhar (United States) replies to azhar 23 May, 2011 06:25 AM wah…. wah Agree (4)Recommend (2) Tam (Canada) replies to azhar 23 May, 2011 05:27 AM Aur barhiya barhiya khaana pakwaan milta. Agree (26)Disagree (1)Recommend (12) KC (NY) replies to azhar 23 May, 2011 04:20 AM Very rightly said. It’s effective with Dawood too as India dosen’t have the guts due to vote bank compulsions. Agree (7)Recommend (2) AKBAR KASSAM (New-York City, United States.) 23 May, 2011 03:13 AM CORRUPTION in INDIA. ****************************** Political and bureaucratic corruption in India are major concerns. Transparency international in India found that more than 15% of Indians and first-hand experience of paying bribes or influence pedding to successfully complete jobs in public office. Taxes and bribes are a fact of daily life and common between state boarders. Transparency international estimates that truckers pay United States $$$$$ 5 billion in bribes annually. In 2010 India was ranked 87th out of 178 countries in Transparency international’s corruption Perception index. Agree (7)Recommend (3) Tom (USA) replies to AKBAR KASSAM 23 May, 2011 07:33 AM You are absolutely right. We have a systemic problem. You cannot expect this to change overnight. Fortunately this is changing fast. Thanks to our PM who hold high integrity in politics. Unfortunately our illiterate masses do not understand that. Many fools are blaming Dr MM Singh, because he is not in a denial mode like BJP leaders. Corruption is not suprising in a couunty like ours in its infancy of democracy. But, thing will change when people are educated and start using their own brain keeping aside cows, temples, mosques and terrorism. The best thing people can do is the streanthen the hands of honest leaders like Dr MM Singhs, Mamtha Banajrees, AK Antonys and Nitish Kumars when they go to polling station next time. Agree (5)Disagree (5)Recommend (3) Kenny Chahal (canada) replies to AKBAR KASSAM 23 May, 2011 07:17 AM i agree bribes are a fact of life in india but if u r talking about borders , how come U.S.A cant control the borders south in mexico &north in canada. get any type of illigal drugs in america inspite of being so called champions of spy technology.or maybe the dealers pay their bribes too over there. Agree (8)Recommend (3) babu singh (delhi) 23 May, 2011 02:36 AM Why should dawood worry ..he can keep the reception in Delhi .. and it is safest as Indian governement and agencies will not even know that it happened …they are busy minting money for themselves.. and who really cares …So i suggest dawood to keep it in India ..i bet nothing will happen to him Agree (10)Disagree (1)Recommend (6) Ne Rt Rt (Delhi) replies to babu singh 23 May, 2011 09:38 AM Sharad Pawar will protect him Agree (8)Disagree (1)Recommend (5) Roger (Toronto) 23 May, 2011 02:32 AM Now India has a chance to send its Navy SEALS to kill its enemy and dump his deadbody in sea. Indian army seems to be capable of it but its leader Singh too timid to protecvt honour of the country and fulfill desire of its citizen. Agree (9)Disagree (4)Recommend (6) Tom (USA) replies to Roger 23 May, 2011 07:39 AM It’s not easy as you think, particularly when you have a nuclear enemy. Mr. Singh is holding a responsible position. He cannot act foolish as some BJP folks think. After all it’s the NDA government’s foolish act that made Pak a nuclear power. Vajpayee’s advisor’s failed to realize that there are no winners in a nuclear war! We lost our military supremacy over Pakistan when they became a nuclear power. That’s the reason, we need leaders like Dr MM Singh who get things done brain rather than fools like Advani who bark like a dog for unnecessary controversies. Agree (8)Disagree (8)Recommend (6) Joy (Bangalore) replies to Tom 23 May, 2011 12:55 PM Oh wow! Suddenly u realize that thr isn’t a winner in nuclear war. Y dont u lead by example and start destroying ur own nuclear bombs? Afterall “YOU” led all of us into its production phase. And seriously, i must congratulate u on ur statement that NDA govt made Pak a nuclear power. I mean, r u really so ill-informed or u r mentally unstable? Do u think any country can produce and test the nuclear bombs so fast and quickly? Atleast thank Vajpayee that he exposed Pak’s nuclear assests. Its wat u call a “MASTERSTROKE”. Agree (1)Recommend (1) Sudarshan (Toronto) replies to Tom 23 May, 2011 10:29 AM Do you think any country, howsoever mighty it is, can make a nuclear bomb in 15 days. You should be obliged to NDA govt. that it made India nuclear power officially and sustained world pressure and sanctions. Pakistan was already nuclear power. Pakistan is ahead of India due to Chinese and US support. In any case, I do not support drone attacks in Pakistan. Let us find out our internal enemies first and then look for outside enemies. If Indians become strong then no power can destablize India. Incompetencies and Corruption is so deep that a cop will not do his routine checking if you pay him some money and then you can carry out all your activities. Take the example of the fugitives list handed over to Pakistan. We are trying to build pressure on Pakistan based on a list that is not correct. How incompetent our home minister is. Agree (6)Recommend (5) Krishna Kumar (Tellicherry) replies to Tom 23 May, 2011 10:29 AM Well said Sir. We have quite a few people who wear their so called ” national pride ” on their sleeves and equate Hindu pride with national pride. They forget that the majority of Indians are patriotic irrespective of caste and community. And usually very quiet. They are not comfortable penning obscenities in public forums and blogs. The organised shouting brigade of the BJP spew dirty words and allegations like the proverbial deluge because normal people do not even like to get enmeshed in such forums. The same shouting brigade insult any person who dares to contradict their point of view. TOI and Rediff are full of such people. They sure will respond by calling me names. To them I have only one response: The words you express mirror your stock. Jai Hind!! Agree (3)Disagree (4)Recommend (2)

Americas

Now we’re even with India, said a ‘pleased’ Headleyhttp://www.hindustantimes.com/Now-we-re-even-with-India-said-a-pleased-Headley/H1-Article1-702021.aspxYashwant Raj, Hindustan TimesWashington, May 25, 2011

David Headley, the man who set up the Mumbai targets for the 10 Lashkar-e-Tayyeba terrorists, stared impassively when asked how he felt about the attacks, and said, "I was pleased". Into the second day of the widely-awaited deposition, Headley revealed little that he hasn't already told Indian investigators during the seven days of questioning last June.

Headley is deposing as a state witness in the trial of Tahawwur Rana, charged with providing him with cover under which he surveyed the 26/11 targets.

He testified that when he met Rana in Chicago on his return to the US on December 8, 2008, they discussed the attacks. "I said to him, ‘Now we're even with India'," Headley said. Rana said "'They deserved it'," Headley testified.

Headley is not saying anything about his past as an agent of the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) of the US. Recruited to penetrate Al Qaeda, he is believed to have gone rogue and crossed over to the jihadists.

But how much did his DEA handlers know of the Mumbai plot? The US had warned India of attacks, with some specific details. But had it got them from Headley? And how much did he tell them?

It was later discovered that his wives had told the US authorities about Headley's Lashkar links. The tips were apparently ignored.

Headley is singing as a prosecution witness now having got himself a deal — assuring him immunity from being tried abroad (read India) — in a plea bargain.

His ongoing deposition, however, is his first public statement on the attacks.

But none of Headley's revelations have shocked or impressed India. "There is nothing new in his statement," said an Indian official.

The surprise will be Headley's statement on his DEA days. An email to his lawyer Charles Swift asking if he planned to question Headley on his days as a US agent went unanswered.

Showing 1 comments

Sid Harth34 comments 24 likes received

Sid Harth 0 minutes ago I see this whole trial as a CIA shenanigans. If, as they say, David Headley was a DEA agent in the employ of CIA, why is he allowed to sing, in the first place? My take on this charade is that CIA is protecting him. The lesser evil, namely, Tahawwur Rana, has become a sacrificial lamb. David Headley's ISI connections are being shaken off for the same reasons. David Headley is reading a CIA written script, albeit in scrambled form. He named a certain person, Major Iqbal, in ISI as his mentor, a handler. The story goes around in the grape vines says that it is ridiculous. It is like the said contact Iqbal, major or minor person in the ISI hierarchy tantamounts to, oops, almost calling him a John Doe or Mr Smith. Thousands of such names in your telephone books and in the hospital's mortuary records. You can't tell one from the other. Nice job CIA.

...and I am Sid Harth

Headley wrote will post-26/11http://www.hindustantimes.com/Headley-wrote-will-post-26-11/Article1-701810.aspxPress Trust Of India

Apprehending arrest during his India visit after the Mumbai attacks, David Coleman Headley wrote a will and emailed it to his friend and co-accused Tahawwur Rana, with specific instruction about his wives and children in the event of his death or arrest. "I am travelling and things are so bad thesedays, I would like to leave a few instructions with you in case of my death or if I am anticipated for some reason," Headley wrote to Rana on March 3, 2009 in an email.

Headley said he was afraid of going back to India because of increased surveillance. "Because I have been coming in and out of India before the (Mumbai) attacks, conducted the surveillance, (so I) was concerned about being apprehended in India..."

On his wife and sonsHe identifies his two wives as M1 and M2. "First of all M2. Please get her to Canada as soon as possible. Till that time comes, send her $350 a month through Pasha. Communicate with her through him and don't give her your numbers, even if you call her.... When she does get the visa, give her Canadian dollar 6,000 and ticket and instructions," Headley said.

"Regarding M1, sit with her and decide whether she should return home immediately, or after a year, or two. We will play this by ear if I am incapacitated, if I die then use your best judgment," he wrote.

"I would like my sons to get into Aicthison after their Hifz, if you can swing it, great, and if not then whatever is the next best option," he said.

On his assetsHeadley also revealed the details of his assets to Rana.

"I have 2 shops in Dubai completely paid up. The larger one has two more years on the lease. The rent is fixed at 23,780 dirham quarterly....The smaller one has one year on its lease....”The mail goes on with specific instruction about the shops.

"The last thing is Abba's house, 60% of it is owned by me. Abba's share comes to about 21 marlas. I want my sons to keep that house at all costs. Once again Solat has all the necessary details pertaining to this house. I want this issue settled as soon as possible as I fear the other heirs ... may have a change of niyyat (intentions) after my departure....”

Headley dishes the dirt on 26/11http://www.hindustantimes.com/headley-dishes-the-dirt-on-26-11/article1-701346.aspxIndo-Asian News Service

From how to pray without leaving the forehead indurated, to the language of the train announcements at the Victoria Terminus station, the Pakistani planners of the Mumbai terror attacks paid meticulous attention to every detail, key plotter David Coleman Headley testified in Chicago. The 50 year old

Pakistani American, who has pleaded guilty to all 12 charges of his involvement in planning the attacks, on Monday offered a rare and extraordinary look inside the behind-the-scenes planning of an operation that left the Indian state practically paralysed for three days starting Nov 26, 2008.

Under a plea bargain deal that requires him to cooperate fully with the federal prosecutors, Headley was expected to disclose all that he knows about the planning of the attack and he lived up to that obligation, as Assistant US Attorney Daniel Collins carefully walked him through all major and minor details of the plot.

Headley’s attorney John Theis sat in the front row, as his client answered questions in somewhat muffled tones, even while disclosing remarkable details.

At one point, as he discussed the kind of conversations he had had with his Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) handler Sajid Mir, Headley said he was even told how to pray in order to avoid “mihrab”, the dark spot that devout Muslim men have on their foreheads because of the regular friction with the floor while praying.

The significance of this particular detail being that since Headley was to travel to Mumbai as a white American on a US passport, a mark like that on his forehead may arouse suspicion. As a result, he was advised to pray without touching his forehead to the ground.

Another seemingly minor, but crucial detail, that came to light during his four hour long testimony concerned the train arrival and departure announcements at Mumbai’s Victoria Terminus or Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus.

Headley told the court that he pointed out to both Sajid Mir and Major Iqbal, a shadowy figure reportedly belonging to Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), that the announcements were made in English and Marathi. If the attackers did not know English, they could run into difficulty trying to find out when trains were arriving.

The overriding theme of prosecutor Collins’ questioning was to establish how closely the LeT, as represented by Sajid Mir, and the ISI, as represented by Major Iqbal were involved every step of the way, directing Headley what to do, when, where and how. So much so that Mir and Headley even discussed which Islamic denomination the latter’s fellow accused Tahawwur Hussain Rana belonged to, as well as, the need to win him over to the Salafi side of Islam.

Salafi adherents treat the companions of the Prophet Mohammed and the two immediate generations of Muslims that followed as their role model. Headley said LeT believes being a Salafi “is a prerequisite to jihad”. He said he was told by Mir that only when Rana, a Pakistani military physician turned businessman at whose trial Headley testified, was made a Salafi can the real agenda be pushed.

Headley and Rana even debated who should declare jihad, whether a head of an Islamic state, as Rana believed, or someone else. Headley explained to Rana that a head of state was necessary only if it was to be “offensive” jihad but for “defensive” jihad of the kind currently underway it was not necessary.

Another striking disclosure that Headley made relates to the 2002 Muslim massacre in Gujarat in the aftermath of the killings of 50 Hindu pilgrims at Godhra. In fact, he cited that massacre as one of the triggers for him personally to get involved in the Mumbai attacks.

He said between 2002 and 2007 the LeT had received hundreds of letters from Muslims in Gujarat to help them. He even referred to an undercover video recording of a Hindu activist called Babu Bajrangi who had bragged about personally killing many Muslims.

The broad focus of his testimony was also on the number of times he met Major Iqbal and Sajid Mir to finetune plans for the Mumbai attacks as well as watch many video surveillance tapes of the city that Headley personally shot during his visits prior to the attack.

From discussing landing sites to the schedule of a major conference of defence industry which was to be organised at the Taj Mahal Hotel and from how to transfer attackers from a Pakistani boat to an Indian vessel to determining the nearest taxi stand, the three men discussed everything in great detail.

US Citizen 1 hour ago So Muslims in Gujrat were sending 100's of letter to this terrorist Headley, so he can come and mascare Hindus. Wake up India.

Guest 6 hours ago To all the readers -- Headley will continue to dish out dirt, but trust me nothing is going to come out of it in terms of India's benefit.

Dcbhambhu 7 hours ago if he were in india, he would have been granted bail so far, and the final decision of the court would be "he is acquitted for lack of evidence"

Tina Hal 9 hours ago Why not bring him to India and have a trial here in India court. He is guilty of Indian people. http://www.ekhichdi.com/India-...

Mmkr 1 day ago Enough information is at hand for India to act -- to get rid of terrorist bases, to capture the terror masterminds. Pakistan is already on the borderline of anarchy and lost sovereignty due to routine wars between Islamic fanatics' groups. India's diplomacy with it will be fruitless. 2 people liked this.

Chimpu 1 day ago Did Rahul Bhatt son of Mahesh Bhatt help David Headley in conducting recce of Mumbai city where Rahul was born and brought up? This needs serious investigation. Let him not go away lightly like Sanjay Dutt, custodian of 93 RDX. 1 person liked this.

Chimpu 1 day ago Role of Mahesh Bhatt's son Rahul Bhatt needs serious investigation. He may be hiding a few things like Sanjay Dutt, mastermind of 93 blast and store keeper of RDX. 3 people liked this.

Khalid (Saudi Arabia) 1 day ago We treat Pakistanis as second class Muslims. We check them thoroughly when they arrive at Jeddah airport. Their beggar prime minister comes 5 times a year to visit us. No one goes to receive him at the airport. We give him some free oil and make him sit back to Islamabad. We Saudis have a great honor for the Indians. When your prime minister Dr. Manmohan came here, our whole ministry went to the airport to receive him. That s how we differentiate Indians from Pakistanis. 14 people liked this.

Chimpu 1 day ago in reply to Khalid bin Makhdoom (Saudi)We are very proud of your royal highness close friendship with Dr Manmohan Singh. I know Pakistani civilian govt is very jealous of India now. Ever since Zardari became close to Iran, your royal highness King Abdullah has taken a very noble step to increase trade and relationship with India.4 people liked this.

Chimpu 1 day ago in reply to Khalid bin Makhdoom (Saudi)Thanks to charismatic leadership of King Abdullah and his vision, Indians and Saudis have come very close now since past 6 months when Dr MS Singh visited your holy kingdom.3 people liked this.

Khalid bin Makhdoom (Saudi) 1 day agoWe treat Pakistanis as second class Muslims. We check them thoroughly whenthey arrive at Jeddah airport. Their beggar prime minister comes 5times a year to visit us. No one goes to receive him at the airport. Wegive him some free oil and make him sit back to Islamabad. We Saudishave a great honor for the Indians. When your prime minister Dr.Manmohan came here, our whole ministry went to the airport to receivehim. That s how we differentiate Indians from Pakistanis.3 people liked this. alok 1 day agoIts true that the current Indian Goverment is good for nothing and it is largely because of them that the 26\11 Mumbai terror attack could take place . Our country urgently needs to reform its defence mechanisms urgently to be able to cope with the terror attacks that may take place in the future3 people liked this.

Venkyonline 1 day agoThe problem dosent lie with pakistan, Our Intelligence Units or anything from outside. The Biggest plague and illness that our country is suffering from is owr very own " CORRUPT POLITICIANS AND THE GOVERNMENT" which is correctly ruling our lives. The Pakistanis and who ever hates India are doing excatly what they have to do, So no one can complain of their intemtions. Everybody in the world knows How much pakistan lives with the only ambition of being a trouble for India. It is our very own elected representatives who are killing us, selling the blood of indians and helping the enemies to the full. I cant help but express my utter disgrace and hatred for how the govt of india is functioning. No body from the govt is bothered how an ordinary citizan suffers.

To the practically relevant, The politicians of our country are the biggest enemies of the country.17 people liked this.

GuestX 1 day agoIndians are truly pathetic.

Headley made multiple trips to India and stayed in 5 star hotels ...we could do nothing about it.

10 pakistanis came to mumbai across the sea and slaughtered 164 people and despite the presence of thousands of police , security personnel , commandos etc we could do nothing to prevent the massacre.

Now we are at the Mercy of the Americans and are hoping they bring the masterminds of the mumbai terror attack to justice.20 people liked this.

anil 1 day agoIf it were India this would have taken 30 years to bring Headly to court, by which time he would be dead anyway.23 people liked this.

John 1 day agoThis comment was ged for review.

kta 1 day ago wll said ajay 1 person liked this.

David Hawkes 1 day ago Every body in this world is a lier except ISI, Bin Laden is its Proof, although Pakistan ISI has been made naked before the world by US in Abbota bad operation, I think the terrorist out fits of Bin Laden and like minded will teach a good lesson to ISI and the whole world will see but even then ISI will not accept, this Karachi attack is one example, see the full film in future. there is no place of ISI, in democracy, the politicians of Pakistan should finish ISI, if they wants their country to be democratic, which is a tough subject for politicians, see how many Top Politicians has been killed or hanged by ISI, though army is not supposed to have any right to interfere, like in India, China, US, USSR, UK and what not. 6 people liked this.

Sonnymohini 1 day ago Would PM still want to share a common destiny with Pak. 8 people liked this.

ADVANI 1 day ago in reply to Sonnymohini This comment was ged for review.

Abhimanyu 1 day ago in reply to ADVANI Why don't you go Trolling somewhere else.. Congress has been the bottle neck for this country all this time. The progress NDA govt. had done in 5 years was way ahead of what UPA (or Congress) has been doing all these years. MMS may be good, but he hardly has the power to do something on his own. If visiting China is a sin, then extending the hand of friendship to Pakistan too should be a sin.. isn't it?

A key plotter of the Mumbai terror attack, Pakistani American David Coleman Headley, has told a court that he joined Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terror group as he hated India for "dismembering" Pakistan in 1971. Implicating Pakistani spy agency Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) for providing supp

ort to LeT in carrying out the 2008 terror attack, Headley told a Chicago federal court Monday: "They coordinated with each other."

"ISI provided assistance to Lashkar through military and financial assistance and moral support," said Headley, who has pleaded guilty to taking part in planning the rampage to escape the death penalty, at the trial of his one time friend, Pakistan-born Canadian Tahawwur Rana. http://www.hindustantimes.com/Images/HTEditImages/Images/24_05_11_pg01new.jpg

Prosecution's star witness Headley testified that in 2004, after meeting with top LeT leaders, he proposed that it sue the US government to challenge its designation as a terrorist organisation.

But top leaders in the group told Headley, son of a Pakistani father and an American mother, who changed his given name of Daood Gilani in 2006 to scout targets for the attack without arousing suspicion, that they would need to consult with the ISI if they were to try to sue the US.

Headley discussed how he attended several training camps with the group and how he was trained with weapons and in Koranic studies when he returned to Pakistan from the US after the Sep 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Eventually in 2004, Headley attended a leadership course with about 200 LeT terrorists, he said, adding that he had wanted to fight against Indian troops in Kashmir.

But LeT leaders told him they wanted to use him in other operations because he had been born in the US and may not raise suspicion.

In December 2005, he discussed with his Lashkar handler, Sajid Mir, plans to go into India. Headley was introduced to a retired Pakistani military officer named Abdur Rehman Hashim Syed aka "Pasha".

The following year, Pasha and Headley tried to meet with a drug smuggler Headley knew to possibly smuggle weapons into India for an attack, he told the jury.

But they were arrested in northern Pakistan by Pakistani authorities. Headley admitted he had been training with LeT and was introduced to an ISI official named Major Ali.

Headley testified that he told Major Ali about his plans to go to India and plans to change his name and get a US passport.

Major Ali was "very pleased" and then wanted to introduce him to another ISI officer known as Major Iqbal, Headley said.

Acknowledging his work for the ISI, Headley told the coort: "During my trip to Chicago, I told [Rana] about my meetings with Sajid and others in Lashkar.

"I also told him about my meetings with Major Iqbal, and told him how I had been asked to perform espionage work for ISI. I even told him some of the espionage stories that Major Iqbal had told me."

Headley's testimony may take several days, with the trial itself expected to last four to five weeks.

Federal prosecutors on Monday argued that Rana supported and even laughed about plotting terror with his co-conspirator.

"You will hear the defendant in his own voice laughing as they discussed targets of attack," assistant US attorney Sarah Streicker said.

"The plots we are going to describe are atrocious, the attacks terrible."

RAMESH 50 minutes ago YES WE DO KNOW PAKISTANI I.S.I PLANNED THE BOMBAY ATTACK. BUT WHO GAVE I.S.I THE TARGES.IT IS OUR OWN CORRUPT CONGRESS PARTY,THEY ACTUALLY WANTED TO DISCREDIT HINDU TERRORIST GROUPS((WHICH IS THE FIGMENT OF CONGRESS IMAGINATION)) ,HAD THESE PAKISTANIS BE ABLE TO ESCAPE OR ALL OF THEM DIED.BUT THEIR SCHEME FAILED AND ONE WAS ARRESTED.WHEN WE KNOW NOW THAT PAKI I.S.I WAS BEHIND THE ATTACKS AND AMERICANS WERE ACTUALLY KILLED AND THEY CAPTURED ROGUES LIKE RANA NAD HEDLEY ,INDIA HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO SING THE SAME SONG.WHEN THE WORLD AT LARGE HAS SUCH FILTHY IMPRESSION AND PAKISTAN IS ON THE VERGE OF BEING ISOLATED ,INDIA ONCE AGAIN CAME TO ITS RESCUE BY STARTING DIALOGUES ON ALL ISSUES TO GIVE SOME CREDIT TO THE LEGITIMACY TO PAKI GOVERNMENT.CONGRESS PARTY IS HAND IN GLOVES WITH PAKISTANI I.S.I. IT WAS THE CONGRESS WHO GAVE HINDU LEADERS SUCH AS BAL THACKERY ,AND MODI AS THE TARGETS TO PAKI I.S.I. ALONG WITH HINDU PRESTIGIOUS TEMPLES SUCH AS SIDHI VINAYAK , HANUMAN MANDIR IN BANARAS, AS PAKISTAN WAS CRYING HINDU TERRORISTS SO CONGRESS ALSO STARTED HINDU (SAFFRON) GROUPS,WHEN NONE ACTUALLY EXISTS.IT SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED HOW MUCH MONEY CONGRESS IS GIVING TO BANKRUPT I.S.I. TO KEEP TERROR ALIVE IN INDIA.

Budha 7 hours ago Now that the case is opened in US, US Prosecutors are divulging all info they had recorded long before 26/11 attacks. Even though US & India are partners and signed agreements to fight terrorism jointly, however, in their limited interests in Afganistan, USA may not have specifically cautioned India. Had they done so, many precious lives includinng Americans would have been saved. Budha

vijayan kilikolloor 7 hours ago why?It is a truth thatlearned from the medias of the world that the land of Pakistan is a haven of terrorists and also their training land.Why do they get more technical perfection in operation than any other anti-social gags of the world?It must be because these terrorists are trained by some highly technically perfected people.Why do they have no intelligence failure in their operation?It may be either they buy information from a highly perfect agency or they have a free access to some secret agency.Any way it is not good in the 21st century.Those who do evil deeds will perish themselves in their deeds.What do these terrorists earn by killing the innocent people of the world. 1 person liked this.

Jp 15 hours ago Pakistani ISI is to terrorism, like McDonalds is to Heart disease. Both deny it, but are directly linked to it. 6 people liked this.

Narine 1 day ago Here is incontrovertible evidence that the ISI is the principal terrorist organization in the world and in all of history. Here is an agency, which while posing as a credible and legitimate institution whose purpose is the protection of the security of the country – Pakistan -and its institutions, is itself a terrorist organization, which establish, train, fund, protect, defend, equip, guide, and among many other nefarious deeds, also plot terror attacks against its neighbors, and even its own country. Here is an organization that has hijacked the dreams and vision of Pakistan and sets the agenda of a whole country, bringing shame on it as it has been doing since the day of inception, more so today than in former years, and yet with the tacit support of the real rulers of country – the Army whose kleptocratic rule is the real driving force in what is presented to the world as a “democracy”. What is being revealed today in Chicago by Headley and Rana, and what is yet to come in the next 5-6 weeks before a judge and jury in an American court, as anticipated, is that the ISI is the principal terrorist organization in the world today, and its dirty hand and black heart is behind the killings of Afghans, American and NATO troops in Afghanistan, the thousands killed in the numerous attacks in India, the 9/11 attacks on the US, and the numerous attacks in Africa, and worst of all their filthy hand in protecting the likes of Osama bin Laden, the murderer and gangster Dawood Ibrahim, Saeed, Lahkvi, etc., some within spitting distance from a premier military training camp and among retired security and military officers. Was this the reason that Muslims wanted their own country, Pakistan? How have they by these deeds and international fame or more likely infamy, that Pakistan is accomplishing its dream? Is its dream to be home to the greatest terror organization in history and in the world, and does it enjoy the world courts placing in trial the ISI, under the names of Rana and Headley? I wish to submit that the whole world is not now preparing to surrender to Pakistan or to even disappear in the face to the ISI terror campaign, in the wolf in sheep’s clothing approach to international diplomacy and foreign relations. The intuitive logic is as evident as the blue sky: the whole world is not going to commit suicide or surrender to Pakistan; rather, it is easier to see that Pakistan if it so chooses will be the sacrifice if it continues to stand in the way of global peace. 1 person liked this.

Rajesh 1 day ago ok now if india wants to do some thing, they can start by arresting all movie stars headly was sleeping with. They will give more information as whom he was meeting. If they dig deep into movie industry, half of these pakistani, dubai, saudi terrorists are caught. 3 people liked this.

Guest 1 day ago Indian, American and rest of the allied forces should now carry out operations inside Pakistan, and they should capture entire ISI jihadi brass and get them convicted. These osama-bin-bastar* look likes should be sent to Guantamamo for ever. We have Ajanta and Taj Mahal, but these stone age country Pakistan has pathatic looking big beard brigade which looks so pathatic in front of our monuments. I miss Indira Gandhi,because she would have sent our forces inside Pakistan to teach them a lesson. She was the only Iron person we ever had. 8 people liked this.

raghavendra r pawar 1 day ago Apart from this confession what kind of dossier or evidence required by counterpart country to punish terrorist took shelter on its soil that list has been given long back by India. Recent retaliate attack on its naval base by LET to take avenge against death of its leader Bin Landen. Pakistan must act stringently against militants and their groups in such manner that would tough find their marks on its soil to prove its commitment toward eradication of terrorism from this planet. International forum must put pressure on Pakistan to take all possible steps to push out terror camps active in different part of the country and cleanse up its spy agency from possible link between terror groups to avoid further embarrassment and humiliation in eyes of international media and leaders. UN has to pass an resolution that ensure Pakistan government must control over its inteligency agency to monitor its alleged link with terror group taken advantnage of its privileage to hide and use other nation key ares to target. 1 person liked this.

Aiyina A 1 day ago It is a well known fact that Pakistan is a sponsor of terror. The funds for this sponsorship is diverted from the aid provided by the US. Hence it follows that US funded, Pakistan sponsored terrorists killed around 260 people including 5 Americans in the Mumbai attack. With the billions of dollars of US aid still flowing into Pakistan it looks as if many more (including Americans) will be will be butchered by terrorists before the Us learns a lesson.

Ex Muslim 1 day ago This comment was ged for review.

shekhu 1 day ago in reply to Ex Muslim For your government's failure you can't abuse a religion. Vote for congress, who used intelligence agencies of creating fake CDs for Bhushans, taping phone calls of political rivals. Who cares for national security??? If any congress might not have won in Kerala and Assam. Indians are getting what they have opted for. 2 people liked this.

Jagan5191 1 day ago Hindus of Kerala and Assam (to hell with the illegal Muslim immigration from Bangladesh) have voted for Rahul' Congress who confided to the US envoy that Hindu terror is more dangerous than the LeT.Thank you shameless Hindus ! Keep voting for the Vatican agent headed corrupt Congress ! 3 people liked this.

shekhu 1 day ago in reply to Jagan5191 No use, India is a corrupt nation. Not only congress, Indian voters are corrupt too. That's why they vote for corrupt criminals. This will continue happening to India as they opted and deserve. 2 people liked this.

Subramanium 1 day ago India should give fitting reply to Pakistan in same fashion rather than sending dossiers which is thrown by Pak officials in waste basket.They will never behave properly which is evident in last 63 yrs.Pak is handing over Pak occupied Indian territory to China for military purposes but Congress govt is mute spectator.That day is not far when Pak will be in control of terrorists which will seriously endanger India.The recent attack in Karachi is eye opener.The nuke stockpile of Pak is only 15Kms from Air Force base which speaks about gravity of situation.Indian politicians are fighting among themselves to loot country rsources as evident in Karnataka while no corrupt politicians of Karnataka or Delhi are thinking about serious hardships of people of state who are facing since two years.What we expect from such brazen,corrupt & unscrupulous politicians who are thinking for themselves? From Sonia to state level politicians are interested in spreading their empire by looting public of country.The rampant corruption has totally eroded very political base of Congress & BJP who are sailing in same boat while regional parties are taking full advantage in capturing power.Congress is doing blunders by shielding corrupts of country like Laloo.Maulyam,Mayawati,Karunanidhi,Jagan etc. These very corrupt people are sealing fate of Congress which is not visualised by corrupt leaders of Congress which has lost ground in almost all states leading to humiliating defeat in Tamil Nadu,Bihar & other places.Congress leaders should think for people of country by taking stern measures against rampant corruption & recovery of black money by imposing death penalty for culprits as no other steps will be effective in controlling both menaces as referred above.The recent examples of Raja & Kalmadi are eye opener for people of country in which CBI miserably failed to unearth illegal money stashed in foreign banks by both culprits as Indian invetigating are incapable in doing so which is a fact.So death penalty can only curb rampant corruption & black money.Lok Pal committe must recommend death penalty for high profile cases. 3 people liked this.

Mano_rpa 1 day ago I at least expect US and other strong countries to take action on behalf of India and other suffering nations. we all know very well that India cannot take such a action becuase all our leaders are really busy in making money and corruption and other scams. Mr. Manmohan, what is your call now? we can not wait anymore. Elimination of Osama and Mulla omar is the indication of fight against terror. Every country has to unite and eliminate the entire terror group in pakistan. 4 people liked this.

shekhu 1 day ago in reply to Mano_rpa Even the god helps the one, who helps himself. Please go on and vote for congress as all did in Kerala and Assam. Nothing going to happen to India. Indians will rely of America for their security and vote corrupt congress. India is a corrupt nation well represented by Congress.

size 1 day ago There was never any doubt about the complicity of ISI and Let in the 26/11 attacks.Its just that today we hear of a testimony by Headley in a US Court verifying the same.Pak is going to dismiss this as fabricated and Headley"s figment of imagination and that even those who carried out the carnage arnt Pakis in the very first place.So lets not get too excited about this stuff its all too stale and thats it.Now to read blogs that seek to cast aspertions on people of other faiths by a good number of Indians is plain despicable.Why is every such oppurtunity were actions of Pakistan or the US used to demonise people as Islamists or Missionaries.If at all we must first come clean on our own past.Have we not seen so many people who just dont ask why a fair trail must not be done on Gujrat 2002 and why the killing went on for days and why the man we call the Man friday of India did nothing.Why Dara Singh the accused and then convicted in Stains burning case was given a ticket by Nationalists as they call themselves.What will be the reaction if Afzal Guru were to be given a Ticket to contest by a NATIONAL party.The standards of bias are getting way too low for any healthy debate.As Indians we want US to get Pak to act which is quite true as we have been victims of Pak terror.Why is that we dont apply the same in the cases made out by me.If you have double standards on Facts ,the enemy has also the very same to adopt as well.The Americans will apply the same we do,if you can just ignore such abuses of human rights in your own backyard be it 84 or 2002 the very same can be adopted by us in our own interest.Every single occassion unrelated to is sought to be used to express intolerance and propogate hate 2 people liked this.

Yarajvi Libran 1 day ago in reply to size of course the standard of bias has gone way too low for any healthy debate. When afzal guru's sentence cannot be carried out, the entire community stands up against the batla house encounter, when the ruling party uses its entire machinery to appease a particular community and when PM himself declares that a particular community has more right to the resources of the nation; where killing of security forces is a mark of jejhad and when anyone attacking secutiy forces is killed it leads to more violent protests and more killings but where killings of innocents people by terrorists goes unnoticed, not even a single voice of condolence or solidarity from the entire community which forced lakhs of people from their home and the govt. does not have time for these displaced people because they are not so called minority, the open declaration of rewards by leaders of the community for murder of those who do not believe in their religion, do we still have a reason for debate?? 1 person liked this.

Kumar 1 day ago It is immaterial now...we lost the battle once dossiers sent by Chidram were being used as toilet paper by Pak. Till date chidram has not been able to take concrete steps , except those customary press briefings while MMS is talking of cricket matches. The song hadley is singing has been on for quite some tine now.

Only US judicary may give us some respite. Kassab is still around, will never be hanged as there will be loss of votes for congress. 13 people liked this.

007 Bond 1 day ago One Second of Jihad = 100 years of worship.....lol...all Madarsa goers please remember this line but again Madrsa goers can't visit HT site 11 people liked this.

Manman 1 day ago Petition to declare ISI a terrorist outfit! Someone, please start an online signature petition to declare ISI a terrorist organization and to request the Civilized World's attention towards it. The site is the following: please put a dot after each word: www petitiononline com 14 people liked this.

NSG 1 day ago Was there any doubt of the ISI's invovlement in 26/11 ? Either you have to be deaf, dumb and blind or have an IQ of a newborn baby.. 2 people liked this.

danny1964 1 day ago Dr. MMS and party please open your eyes and stop kissing Gilani's backside. It is high time you learned to get tough. What do you want? Pakistan to play some more games before you take action? It is high time our armed forces gets away from the grip of politicians. Pakistan is a fifth rate nation not to be trusted at all. 7 people liked this.

Marathaindian 1 day ago in reply to danny1964 You are asking MMS to stop breathing.The man's aim in life is to kiss Pakistani arse. He himself said that a while ago. 7 people liked this.

Noindian 1 day ago in reply to Marathaindian MMS was just following the footstep of great Indian Impotent leader MR. A.B. Bajpaee, what this person done in his 5 year tenure as PM 3 people liked this.

NSG 1 day ago in reply to Noindian You are the reason India is corrupt.. BJP ruled India for probably 8 years out of 60 years of independance... what has the congress done in 52 years that they have been in power in India?

swamy 1 day ago headly now is eating american food and loyal to pakistan it is very strange.recently a muslim soldier from america refused to fight in afghanistan stating that he will not fight against muslims,this means to say that he is loyal to the religion not to the country which pays him for living.all these instances are the examples are evidence enough for others how their religious books and mullahs brainwashed them.indian culture says the place where you live is more than the heaven 7 people liked this.

jhaat omer 1 day ago Even if you nail ISI, can you get Major Iqbal arrested and extradited??? How does this help India? Hafeez Saeed can work from Pakistani jails as well. 3 people liked this.

Sewah 1 day ago What people suspected all along is now beginning to be shown to be true. If proven true such evil tactics will back-fire on those involved. Truth crushed to the ground always rise again. 2 people liked this.

Khussein 1 day ago This testimony, if accepted in court in the USA is actually a call for action by India. 6 US citizens were murdered in Mumbai. They were our honoured guests and had not done any harm to any one. What action USA takes is their problem. We have to punish Pakistan for murdering our citizens as well as all other Nationalities. 12 people liked this.

Doesnotmatter 1 day ago in reply to Khussein Lol keep us updated about how you have punished Pakistan.

5 people liked this.

Khussein 1 day ago in reply to Doesnotmatter Dear doesnotmatter, Please change your name. It does matter. Remember 1971, we did punish Pakistan. Never in the history of mankind or of modern warfare has a country lost as much of its territory and surrendered 94000 of its soldiers as quickly as did Pakistan. Even the battle for Falkland Islands lasted 10 times as long. My country, and I am a very proud Indian, can punish its enemies. We do however, seldom do it. 2 people liked this.

Doesnotmatter 1 day ago Aww :( is my beloved country really full of only spiteful angry men, totally drained of any love and affection, as the all comments other than mine suggest !

Personally I really love our PM for the way he handled things related to 26/11. Probably any other PM would have buckled under the pressure of people who love to apply pressure (the angry spiteful men as usual).

dalit 1 day ago in reply to Doesnotmatter Go give your love and affection to mullah omar or gilani. If you cannot make war atleast pay for some pakistanis to kill person responsible for terror. Even a cat is lot better than some indians. If cornered it fights even a man. 6 people liked this.

Orion1 1 day ago in reply to dalit I accept with this statement. How many persons died due to terror attacks. There is no action taken against them. Still making statements of peace with the religious devils(Pakistanis)

NSG 1 day ago in reply to dalit Couldnt have said it better........ 1 person liked this.

Nandakumar V 1 day ago LET & ISI being together is not a new revelation. But what is a better revelation is HT's language skills which are sub-primary school standard! "LET & ISI ...both coordinated with each other". This is height is tautology. BOTH, COORDINATED & EACH OTHER - one of the three should suffice.

Doesnotmatter 1 day ago in reply to Nandakumar V I could not understand you English. Please elaborate :

". This is height is tautology. BOTH, COORDINATED & EACH OTHER - one of the three should suffice."

One of the problems is I cant find "three"

Tarun 1 day ago Mr Manmohan whats your call now. Dont say - WE WILL TAKE STRICT ACTION SOON. US Whats your call? NO WONDER US WILL be somewhat similar PAKISTAN one day. Remember - As you sow so shall you reap 4 people liked this.

Doesnotmatter 1 day ago in reply to Tarun Lol I love when someone says "As you sow so shall you reap" .. Would you be implying that 26/11 were fruits on India's own actions ? 1 person liked this.

dalit 1 day ago in reply to Doesnotmatter yes they are fruits of indian police lack of intelligence gathering ability. 3 people liked this.

NSG 1 day ago in reply to dalit I certainly agree with you

Ivan 1 day ago In which mansion is Maj Iqbal put up?

Shiva_loveyou 1 day ago I really do not know why India is still considering any sort of relationship with Pakistan or US. It is all because of the selfish minded politicians who do not want to lead this country. When you know that a country's military and intelligence is planning and attacking your fellow citizens, why would you have any communication. Guard your border. Ban everything from there or never send anything there. Even if Buddha or Gandhi is born again, he cannot change the minds of Pakistanis who are so deeply convicted in the jihadic form of Islam. They feel non-violence is the only means of spreading islam. As such, Quran itself is interpreted incorrectly. I believe Quran says, live with toleration. Tolerance to other religions and practices is primary as per Quran. Pakistan is setting a wrong example to this world. Hope God does something for the welfare of the peaceful world and the ever peace monging India. JaiHind. 1 person liked this.

Sid 1 day ago Hadley's confession is Good Wake up call for Raul Vinci, who otherwise loses Sleep Only Over "Grave" Hindu Saffron Terror! Why Did Hadley NOT speak about his Important meeting with One Diggy Singh Ahmed in Mumbai arranged by Rahul Bhatt S/O Film Producer Mahesh Bhatt? Any way, before long Diigy Bhai, who can't Keep Quiet for more than 48 hrs at a stretch - will come out with his Next Gem statement" I have telephone record of Hadley attending a Top Secret RSS meeting in Nagpur in 2008 to Kill Osama Bin Laden & Maharashtra ATS Chief Karve and I will release the recordings very soon to world media"! 1 person liked this.

Doesnotmatter 1 day ago in reply to Sid 48 hrs at a stretch is too long for anyone.

dalit 1 day ago in reply to Doesnotmatter come to india where we will show people who were mute for years, practicing austerities.

Indian#1 1 day ago Headley has zero creditability. He has been USA agent for 15 years. Only naive Hindu_Indians believe in his testimony simply because these extremists want to believe that is anti Pakistan, actually anything that undermines Muslims. 1 person liked this.

TrueINDIAN 1 day ago in reply to Indian#1 I guess for u, the only credible man is zakir naik. For u, he may be a youth icon and his anti Indian testimony makes u happy without any credibility and u r not naive as well. there is nothing abt muslim or any other religion.....if u dont believe Indians then at least have a look what world is saying... 3 people liked this.

Ravi 1 day ago in reply to Indian#1 they wont do anything which affects the vote bank.

CrossWired 1 day ago Anyone surprised? Except our sleeping "leader" Mr Singh? Expect him to come out with some senile statement like "oh, this is a development we have to consider considering seriously, some time in the next six thousand years". 1 person liked this.

What to Say!! 1 day ago INDIA ...SARDARJI...MADAM...CHIDDUSAAB...ANTOBHAI...ab what are you waiting for!!! Still want to be friends with this useless, shameless, dangerous , backstabbing, liar, criminal ...country called PAKISTAN!!!! 17 people liked this.

Guest 1 day ago Ok we have a confession.. whats next now? is anyone going to take any action or do we just see these ocassional headlines in the news and everyone just sits back without any action being taken against the culprits. 3 people liked this.

Sainibhagwati86 1 day ago it's stupid man

Psradhakrishnanmannadiar 1 day ago Hope that the HM and THE DM are following the case in Chicago. They have to accept the reality and confront the PAK with that- for that they should have the political will first and UPA backing for that. The PAK is involved in stockpiling much more nuclear weapons than what they can manage. With the type of security system we are aware of in PAK, one does't think that they can prevent it from falling into the hands of the terrorists and their first target will certainly be India. Are we preparing for such an eventuality- donot think so, considering the method of our functioning , like cricket politics (external) and corruption (internal). We do not have a system to fix accountability (look at the HM who says he does't owe an appology for the blunders in the list of fugitives handed over to the PAK). PAK is always threatening India with atom bombs it has and allowed its soil for terror attacks in India. Despite knowing all these we have not shown them that we have ways and means to deal with that threat. 8 people liked this.

Monkeybrand 1 day ago The world knows about the ISI involvement in india attacks. But the Pakis deny it, and America believes them. Manmohan singh is a very good man but he has demonstrated that he cannot lead India anymore. 3 people liked this.

Harjap Aujla 1 day ago Not too long ago the word of Pakistan's intelligence agency ISI had equal value against India's word. But after the Osama episode and the revelations by persons like David Coleman Headley, no civilized nation will trust the word given by Pakistan or its notorious child ISI to the individual or community of nations. That is why they say "Every cloud has a silver lining". 5 people liked this.

size 1 day ago ISI behind 26/11 was never in doubt, 8 people liked this.

Yarajvi Libran 1 day ago Sorry Mr. Verma but I have to disagree with you. There are any number of places in the world in much worse condition that most of the Islamic states. The main reason lies in the religion itself. Is there another religion in the world which teaches and glorifies murder of innocents just because they dont follow that particular religion. May be not every muslim is extremist who believes in killing people of other faiths but even if they are not directly murdering people most muslims refuse to protest the killings of innocents by their more fundamentalist brethern and approve such actions by their silence. Have you ever seen the reaction of these moderate muslims when another muslim is arrested for terrorism??? Even the so called muslim intelligentia and educated muslim class decide their reactions based on the religious factors. We dont have to go very far. We all know how the Vice-Chancellor of Jamia Milia and the entire educated segment of muslim society reacted after Batla House Encounter. And we do have pseudo secularists and self proclaimed secularists, ie, modern day Jai Chands, in our politicians like Digvijay Singh and Amar Singh who cannot think beyond Muslim Votes. Better get your facts right before trying to explain away things with figment of your imagination. 17 people liked this.

NSG 1 day ago in reply to Yarajvi Libran Great post mate...

budd 1 day ago terrorists attacks on India sponsored by the pakis is a known fact and what does the indian govt do ask the pakis for justice what a joke the government of india is brainless and stupid 10 people liked this.

pillaipmg10 1 day ago dear on line editor,David coleman Headley versin at the Chicago court must be considered genuine and Indian security forces must learn a lesseonfrom this.There is very close relationship between Lasahkare e Taiba ISI and the Islamic teriristsWith out support with directions and weapons these terrorist can not carry out such large scale attack in India of course the logistic support is always availableIndia securiy forces must be filly ALERT to meet any eventualities daedTuesday May 24th 2011 time 0512HRS IST AM 3 people liked this.

Jcverma21 1 day ago Real cause of terrorism is fundamentalism, religious bigatory, injustice, mass poverty, ignorance, disease, gap between rich and poor, and many more. Remove the basic tenets of terrorism, there will be peace, harmony, espirit-de-corps amongst various communities, religion and races.And wiping out of terrorism is key to progress. 3 people liked this.

Indian_Abroad 1 day ago in reply to Jcverma21 Somne people in this world choose to multiply like mosquitoes and pigs.

And rest have to keep them out of poverty!!!???

Otherwise they will turn terrorists :)

Hahaahhhaaa What a Joke! 7 people liked this.

Iqbal Chand, Sukkur Sind 1 day ago I think the only solution to for ending the misery of Pakistan today is for the citizens of Pakistan to abandon the Arabic Religion and return to a dharmic religion as their forefathers where...Sikhism, Budhism, Hinduism or even Ahmediayya....look at the misfortune of Afghanistan and Pakistan...what has the Arabic Religion given them except death and poverty? On top of that, they can never go to heven as that is reserved for people who speak Arabic as God's language is Arabic. 24 people liked this.

Prits_spl 1 day ago Mr. Riaz,

Everybody was given a chance at the 1947 partition to chose one they like, Sikhs, Hindu mostly migrated to India, but muslims and kashmiris choose to stay in India, so they can ask for another Pakistan in coming time. I don't blame you, you guys don't want world to live peacefully, because you are best and other religions have no rights, right??

what you think what kashmir jihadis/freedom fighters did to Kashmiri Pandits and Sikhs in Kashmir was right? you are living in Kashmir with huge subsidies provided by Indian govt. and what Pandits are getting, sepration from their home land!

and what is your opinion about Azad Kashmir part, do you think it has been converted to Paris after sepration?

15 people liked this.

Abhinav 1 day ago in reply to Prits_spl There is no point of arguing with people with such ideology .It's much better to wipe them out or keeping arguing and see more innocent people are being killed by terrorists . 8 people liked this.

riaz kashmiri 1 day ago This comment was ged for review.

Jcverma21 1 day ago in reply to riaz kashmiri Dear Friend, India is a secular country.So dont' talk of in terms of Muslim, Hindus, Sikh or Christian .Many Muslims have been ocuupying top positions (political as well as administrative) in India. Even now many Muslims e.g. to quote few: Chairman of Rajya Sabha and many ministers in the Central/States are holding key portfolios.Since 1947, Muslim has been CM of Kashmir.Art.370 is there to give special status to J&K .In games,too, Muslims are participating . Muslim are more in number in India than compared to Pakistan as a whole . No Common Civil Code has been made for Muslims despite SC judgement. Muslims are backward because of illitracy, having more children than they can feed. If I start scanning the pages of history, I would say Muslims have been invaders before English people occupied India. It will be in bad taste. Past is gone and dead. We should talk of present. O.K. Can you tell me what is the base of terrotorism? It is fundamentalism.May be in Hindus, Muslims , Sikhs or Christians. Why in most parts of the world, terrorists are mostly muslims? It is because, they are poor, illiterate and having more children than they can feed. In most of the world, gap between rich and poor is more than Muslim world(community) and that is why Muslims terrorists have outnumbered in most part of the world. Peace is the key to prosperity. Punjab used to be at No.1 in India and now it has been relegated to 6 or 7 position.It happened when terrotorism started in Punjab. Even Kashmir has not progressed despite best efforts of the Govt. It is also result of prevailing terrorism in J&K. O.K. what is happening in Pak. It has been independent since 1947. So simply attaining freedom by any country or community cannot wipe out terrorism but it is spread of literacy, employment, population control , injustice and many other methods/steps of which you are well aware. 5 people liked this.

prasad 1 day ago in reply to riaz kashmiri No. It all started about 1400 years ago. 7 people liked this.

Deep 1 day ago Presumably the Indian Goverment has known this from day one. And yet, our clueless PM insists on appeasing his country of birth. The citizens of India deserve better. 11 people liked this.

AMS 1 day ago Pakistan is a Terrorist & Failed State...

It's hatred and jealousy at India's progress will consume it... How much they are jealous of India..how much...is seen by their frustration that ultimately it it is taking them backward to stone age... Good ! 9 people liked this.

Kiruba Harris de Unda 1 day ago This comment was ged for review.

Ganesh_gando 1 day ago in reply to Kiruba Harris de Unda This comment was ged for review.

field marshall 1 day ago in reply to Ganesh_gando B hons idi!!

Ramesh 1 day ago IN A COUNTRY WHERE EACH PAKISTANI IS A TERRORIST, THESE PAKISTANIS WHO ARE LIVING IN CANADA MOSTLY IN ONTARIO AND THAT ALSO IN MISSISSAUGA ARE CERTAINLY A VERY LARGE THREAT TO THE CANADIAN SECURITY.THOUSANDS OF THESE ARE ENTERING INTO CANADA MOSTLY IN ONTARIO CLAIM TO BE A REGUGEE SEEKING A SAFE REFUGE IN MISSISSAUGA,RANA WAS ALSO ONE SUCH PAKISTANI ,WITH LITTLE OR NO EDUCATION HE TOOK UP VARIOUS CAUSES TO SPREAD A FEELING OF INSECURITY BY CREATING ANTI INDIA RALLIES, KASHMIRI MOVEMENT STRUGGLE. NO WONDER HE WAS PICKED BY I.S.I. A LARGE NUMBER OF SUCH PAKISTANIS ON CANADIAN PASSPORTS HAVE BEEN LIVING IN INDIA NOW/. 7 people liked this.

Vvgoalkeeper 1 day ago CARPET BOMB I.S.I. 3 people liked this.

Ramu 1 day ago Probably the best proof of ISI being a Jehadi outfit, masterminding all the terror plots of recent years.

Question: What is India going to do about it? Can we do anything? Or wail that the "world" should do something - coz' we can't.

And the Spineless Sardar will be ever so willing to cosy up to the Pakis....?

geo 1 day ago in reply to Ramu Last sentence is universal truth. See history, see present and see future.. just a coward nation. 6 people liked this.

Pishabh Badmaash 1 day ago Osama kept small euro in pants, but Rahul keep 2 lakh $ in his pyjama and gots to be India leader 13 people liked this.

Sunil 1 day ago We have a lack of leadership but instead we have a cult following of Nerhu/Gandhi family. A leader would lead a nation not base their "right to lead" on family connections, which are dubious for this family. Even if it true what can India do? Nothing because we have no one with guts to stand up to anyone. Best that we the puppy dogs keep quite and put our ow house in order, with a billion unintelligent people God help us, it's going to be very difficult. 6 people liked this.

True Voice 2 days ago What Headley and Rana say is not going to help India. America needs Pakistan so all will be forgiven. Only thing India can do is to standby and keep away from Pakistan for next 3 years. Within this time Pakistan will either make or break. No dialogues are needed because whatever is agreed will be meaningless. At present Army and ISI decide the foreign policy in Pakistan and they can't sit in any meetings with India. India should just secure her borders and shoot on sight. In any case India has a lot to do to sort out their own CBI,IB and other agencies who at present are very unprofessional. I am not even sure if our chief of staff is up to the job? 30 people liked this.

Raj Kumar Daruwala 1 day ago in reply to True Voice India should not keep on standby. . .but increase its defense capability including the nuclear capability. If Taliban came in power than India has no alternative but to face it. 10 people liked this.

American Shenanigans: Sid Harth

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates reiterated Wednesday his plea for an end to the release of information about the raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound, arguing that the disclosure would compromise future missions.

He quickly got backup from Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

“We are close to jeopardizing this precious capability that we have, and we can’t afford to do that,” Mullen said. “From my perspective it is time to stop talking. We have talked far too much about this. . . . We need to move on.”

It was not the first time that Gates has worried publicly about the extensive and detailed coverage of the raid. A week earlier he told Marines at Camp Lejeune, N.C., that top administration officials watching the raid in the White House Situation Room had all agreed to stay silent on the details of the mission.

“That all fell apart on Monday, the next day,” Gates said.

At a Pentagon news conference Wednesday, Gates was asked if he felt that the White House, which conducted an extensive on-the-record briefing of the raid on May 2, had in its excitement said too much. The defense secretary refused to single anyone out for blame.

“My concern is that there were too many people in too many places talking too much about this operation,” he told reporters. “We want to retain the capability to carry out these kinds of operations in the future, and when so much detail is available it makes that both more difficult and riskier.”

Mullen added that government officials were not the only ones spilling the beans about the mission.

“We’ve had far too many retired people who’ve spoken up,” he said.

Gates said that the SEALs from the raid, whose names are classified, “did express concern, not so much for themselves but for their families,” when he met with them a few days after the raid. The defense secretary suggested that the Pentagon was exploring how best to protect their loved ones from reprisal attacks by terrorists.

“All I will say is that we have been taking a close look at that, and we will do whatever is necessary,” Gates said.

Now, ain’t that just fine! That was a very famous line coming from Oliver Hardy of Stan Laurel-Oliver Hardy pair. As if I am dumb, oops, deaf and dumb, oops, deaf, dumb and a blind monkey to believe what honorable Bill Gates, oops, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and the former prime minister, MacMillan, oops, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff jointly and most willing sad to each other, oops, to the White House. From the day one, Conflicting handouts were discreetly, oops, indiscreetly and most brazenly circulated to the eager media. Not only the submissive, Yes Sir, Mr President, Sir, will do, kind of US media but media in general. Anyone who could spread the holy word from the White House was corralled into a big, oops, big and bad propaganda mill, churning newer and newer versions of the raid at Abbottabad residence of World’s Most Wanted terrorist, oops, al Qaeda terrorist. May Allah be praised, he is dead and not having all this fun and frolic games played about his real or concocted death. Yes, there is a rumor that his death was a play acting. He might be, even as we speak, having a nice, comfortable living in an underground cell at the Farm. Why am I so sinical, oops, sinful in proclaiming a great spin doctoring on the part of American government? Because the truth has been hidden, even from the White House. Nothing that was said and done was above board. Nothing can be undone. Nothing shall change. That is my story. I dare you to publish it. Sue me, sue me, put a bullet though me but I love you, Uncle Sam. There I said it. Over and out.

…and I am Sid Harth

http://sidileak.com/

Today 5/22/2011 6:55:13 PM EDT

alaskan2 Ever since the Sunday night announcement, everyone has been clamoring for more information. Some said they needed to see the pictures and others said we need more info on how it went down. Very few said OK, glad you got him finally and left it alone. Instead there has been nothing but talk. I don’t doubt there were some miscommunication about how the incursion took place. Anytime you have a telling a person or two off the actual participants you can expect errors. The main source of the info at first was the helmet cams which give a distorted view as each one is separate and has to all be merged together by the human brain watching. By the time the Seals were actually debriefed and their s made it to Washington, the story that was already out in the news may have had some wrong info. But I don’t doubt that we got him and I don’t need to see the pictures. I have seen people who have been shot and I am not going looking for more. It is enough for me that those who have seen the pictures, Republicans and Democrats alike, have all said they have no doubt. Bin Laden is dead and buried at sea to keep from having a shrine to him on land. Makes sense to me. . 5/19/2011 7:10:08 PM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

daniel48 It’s wonderful that you’re content, trusting and don’t want any more information. But that really is no defense of requiring those who do want to know from being shut out. I’ve worked in the military and in government for a total 37 years, and from the inside I’ve observed a profoundly unhealthy amount of secrecy. Remember WMDs… the Gulf of Tonkin… Dresden… s of U-boat attacks in the North Atlantic…? People need to wise up. The truth ain’t in the majority of national leaders anymore. For every concise and truthful of events another one is created to distort the truth (with misinformation or disinformation) anytime the government feels that not doing so may interfere with it’s agenda. Wise up before they obliterate the whole planet. 5/19/2011 11:23:14 PM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

OldUncleTom Secretary Gates and Adm Mullen are correct. If you are “not authorized to speak”, then SHUT UP! If you are retired, RETIRE. Your thoughts are no longer valid on the subject. ers, stop pulling anonymous sources out of your assets!

Half the “information” we are receiving is fiction anyway. 5/19/2011 6:41:16 PM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

alance The disinformation released looks like it was created in the basement of Comedy Central. We have more faked video about OBL. First the compound had no satellite dish. Then after a fake photo of him watching sat TV and suddenly the compound has a sat dish. Which federal agency created his porn collection?

Watcher1 They bungled the story right from the beginning. Then each time they retold it they changed the story. First there was a firefight, then only one guy shot at them, then bin Laden had a gun, then he didn’t, then he hid behind one of this wives, then he didn’t. Osama bin Laden died in December of 2001 according to funeral invitations sent out at that time by Al Jazeera. The whole story smells like a dead fish. If they could “build an entire compound” exactly like the compound they raided they could also build the compound they raided ten cliks outside of Pakistan then there would be complete befuddlement by the Paki forces and their intel people as to how we could get both in and out without being detected. The Paki’s aren’t our friends but they aren’t stupid either and they have a fairly sophisticated intelligence network due to their many years of hostile engagements with their neighbor, India, much like Israel has. It would be next to impossible to get in and out after a “fire fight” without being observed. Oh yeah, and get rid of whatever body they got at sea, geesh. Now the statement “Stop asking, we’ve told you everything we wanted you to know so shuddup”, and everything else is secret, sort of like not being able to try anyone at Guantanimo in a real court because “there’s secrets”…. 5/19/2011 6:27:39 PM EDT

vulgarisvir Regardless of your thinking I do believe that OBL is dead. I also believe that too much information has been released even if some of it was tainted by a lack of knowledge by those (Obama) releasing such information. The execution of covert operations should remain covert. Any details released concerning such operations only tend to jeapordize future operations and add fuel to an anti American fire. As far as pictures of OBL are concerned I also believe that these should be kept from public view. It is apparent that you have never seen a dead person who has shot in the head with a high powered rifle or even photo’s of such an event. If Bin Laden is still alive you can bet he would have been on TV telling the world that we missed. Grow up and get a real life. 5/21/2011 1:34:19 PM EDT

Desertdiva1 I’d settle for the media ing the news impartially and then moving on to other topics. Today the stories are repeated and rewritten daily with trivial details reviewed ad nauseum. The raid was two weeks ago so let’s move on to something more relevant and not rehash this story. 5/19/2011 11:34:30 AM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

Jamus1 Nary a day goes by where I feel that the American press needs to suppress its insatiable appetite for being the first to release potentially harmful information. Whether it be “deep throat” or Seal Team 6, lust for the sensational overwhelms common sense in the context of public information. I do not believe that we are a better, more enriched civilization because so much information is available. Instead, I believe that western culture has become desensitized to essential community values, reserve that is requisite to morale. Sorry to see Bob Gates depart; he was a beacon of intelligence in the adrift society we call America. 5/19/2011 10:12:59 AM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

kitchendragon50 I believe that Joe Biden is credited with publically congratulating the SEALS Team Six. Now, Disney wants to trademark the name. 5/19/2011 9:41:01 AM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

jeadpt The idoiocy of leaking this type of information has been a problem in every administration. People just can’t keep their mouths shut. 5/19/2011 9:22:04 AM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

strategiesinter As President Obama himself has said “leakers must be punished”, therefore he must lead by example and punish the leakers who violated the agreement not to discuss details.

President Obama, we will be anxioulsy waiting for your news conference announcing the identification of the leakers and their punishment…. 5/19/2011 9:06:12 AM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

vgk1 I think the Navy wants it both ways here. They want the notoriety of the Seals for recruitment, funding, etc but now they realize there’s a down side to this. If it had been released to the media as a JSOC operation conducted by JSOC personnel, this would be a moot point. 5/19/2011 9:02:40 AM EDT

tilly123 it is true that we have given widest range of publications of the death of laden due to these publications after his death he is living in the heart of people and in print and electronic medias. politicians and officials discussions also a lived him. no doubt it was a hit news of today’s but repeated news shown your concerned more. we have talked detailed about him and his activities. how, why , when, where, who,what are the questions and answers. in my article i suggested that that leave the topic like love get and forget. in this way we have shown our worries, concerned and how strong he was so we have pour our energy dedicate to him. if you are not a god we will make you a god. so we did and adopted these means . we enhanced his popularity and after his death he became toppest news secured person. we have exposed every things and given opportunities to pak and other supporters to remain safe. i may be wrong but true facts i have narrated and it is just like mirage or shadow . if you will want to catch the shadow you will follow it will go away and you be stand by it will be no where. 5/19/2011 6:55:19 AM EDT

realtimer Unfortunately, we have a ‘Ship of UNintelligent Fools’, whose Ego’s trump Reason. But above all don’t forget there are bigger fools in the enabling press, including the WASHPO and , especially, the New York Times. You might also remember the Author, “Anonymous”, who was allowed to publish by his CIA boss while ON THE JOB!! As I said ‘Fools’ one and all!! 5/19/2011 6:14:49 AM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

Auburninbp Reelection means more to this WH than governing the country. How Obama stays as high in polls as he does mystifies me. Unless the GOP run Daffy Duck for president, Obama or any Demo can’t count on my vote. 5/19/2011 4:53:15 AM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

brwing We should have released precious little on the raid and have already loosed to much valuable tactical information and most likely have lost the element of surprise making much of the captured information obsolete. What idiots. I would not want to be a SEAL having to operate in this porous environment. The Government is totally irresponsible. Between Wikileaks and our press and our Government who wants to be an ally? Were I the Joint Chiefs I would be all over this. 5/19/2011 2:20:19 AM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

RickJohnson621 I said this the day after Obama’s announcement. The Obama speech should have been the final word. Instead every journalist felt they had to write a story on the raid and every Obama official from Obama himself down to the last cook in on the operation felt a need to discuss the raid. Al Qaeda are not stupid. They are more computer savvy than most people in this country. Thanks to the big mouths, they have all taken measures to evade any intelligence that we got from the raid.

I am willing to bet you next time the houses and measures to prevent these kind of raids will be put in place by Al Qaeda. There is a very dangerous “irrational exuberance” on the part of the Obama administration that will not only make future operations more difficult, but also put the lives of our troops in danger now. Just shut up! 5/18/2011 10:30:46 PM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

glenn113 Way too much info. had gotten leaked out in the first or second day. 5/18/2011 10:19:12 PM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

dmscontractor I agree with Dr. Gates. This falls under the “Need to Know”. Those seeking information must have proper clearance, and justify the need to know information in the performance of their assigned duties. This obviously excludes those who seek fame, fortune, recognition, status or other non social redeeming values, unless they can show it would be in the interest of the public good. 5/18/2011 9:25:44 PM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

daniel48 People who cling to that “need to know” mantra — the military hawks, the government agents, etc. — need to understand that they are given clearance by a system of self-governed people who’s tolerance is coming to an end. People who act on other’s behalf, who are unwilling to have their actions and communications scrutinized (within reason) by those others, shouldn’t be trusted. 5/18/2011 10:13:42 PM EDT

jmochungo Each time I read about or hear these disclosures on TV or radio, I ask myself, whose interests are being served? Gloating by this administration? Time a lid was put on those mouths! 5/18/2011 9:20:46 PM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

JFB34 Seems Americans could care less about divulging sensitive information. Some reason I assumed we were at war and that applied to everyone. Most honest,patriotic Americans would never say a word about things going on under the circumstances. Just remember a very old saying,”Loose lips sink ships!” Guess we are sinking,huh? Its one thing to invoke freedom of the press but another thing to print everything about operations and our troops in the papers. Used to be we were Americans. Guess we are for sale to anyone with the money or anyone who will love sensitive information and the ers get lots of recognition and prestige. God have mercy on America. 5/18/2011 9:01:08 PM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

FlyDiesel Operational details should not have been revealed in the first place. “We got him” is more than enough. 5/18/2011 8:55:46 PM EDT

Recommended by 5 readers

glenn113 Agree! 5/18/2011 10:18:07 PM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

tototiti In “We got him”, what proof is there about that “him” ? Obama says there is no doubt “him” is Bin Laden, but what about those who *have* doubts ? What sort of “Justice is done” is this, without trial, prof, body, nothing ? What proof did *Obama* see that it was “him” ? Remember those WMD in Iraq ?

No proof, no corps, no photo, no film, no dead terrorist. This all stinks of a CIA coup. 5/19/2011 6:54:38 AM EDT

indi2

What on earth the benefits we can get from disclosing the raid details? It is pure stupidity. We kill ourselves in the name of free info, free talk, free press, free care, free whatever including freedom to be stupid. What caused 911? Stupidity. 5/18/2011 8:48:53 PM EDT

Recommended by 6 readers

giedgar The truth of the matter is, in my opinion, the president said too much to start with. Details were entirely unneccessary, all the public had to know is that Osama was dead via a military operation. There was no need for him to say it was at his order to have the individual ‘taken out’. That was stupid, in my opinion, it made the president of the United States sound like a hood ordering a hit on a rival gang member. He did not win my vote with his comments. And after all is said and done isn’t that what it was all about, pumping his chest saying ‘See what I did’ to gather a vote or two? 5/18/2011 8:46:30 PM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

Watcher1 Isn’t that exactly what it was? A hood ordering a hit on a rival gang member? Not much difference here. If the SEALS were ordered to kill on sight even if the guy surrendered it makes them a “hit” squad no different than the “hit squads” of all the South American and other dictators we’ve heard about and whom we’ve held in contempt. We’re supposed to be a nation of laws not “Hit squads”. 5/19/2011 9:37:07 AM EDT

azereta Lol….I was hoping that pictures of his underwear would be posted. 5/18/2011 8:38:53 PM EDT Recommend

elfraed Look for it on The Daily Show w/Jon Stewart 5/19/2011 4:05:29 AM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

daniel48 This is the administration that ran on transparency. The people have a right to know what has been done. The burden of proof to show why this action should not be fully disclosed (except for soldiers identities of course) should be on Gates and Obama. How convenient though to be able to say that even talking about why it’s risky to talk about it is too risky. Utter sophistry! 5/18/2011 8:35:16 PM EDT

x32792 As we approach the 2012 elections, the final revised version will have Bambo leading the Seal team in the actual assault …This is all he’s got and he will continue to milk it for all it’s worth and then some. 5/18/2011 8:33:18 PM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

larrypoke I’ll just bet they want everyone to shut up about this incident because they have hidden far more than they have revealed. There are still some Americans who have legitimate questions to which we all have a right to ask and have answered. The whole story has huge holes in it which need to be filled. Sorry Sec. Gates and Adm. Mullen we won’t shut up until we’re satisfied that what we have been told is the real truth. 5/18/2011 8:30:49 PM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

giedgar When will everyone be satisfied? What fantasy world are you living in? Haven’t you ever heard the saying ‘You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time but you can’t please all of the people all of the time’. And no, you don’t need to know everything. Do you know everything about everyone in your family? 5/18/2011 8:51:46 PM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

glenn113 have you every heard of loose lips sink ships….We should get very basic what happened and that is it…Having the public know all the details is not worth jepordizing killing more of the bad guys that want to do us. harm. 5/19/2011 12:42:57 AM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

Bubbette1 Guess he better talk to Odumbo who seems to want to make a career of spiking the ball on this issue. Of course given the lack of any positives from this administration to talk about it is understandable. 5/18/2011 8:10:08 PM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

glenn113 You’re rooting for the enemy? 5/18/2011 10:22:41 PM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

Paaa The reason so many people are talking about this is that Obama and the White House want to get as much credit as possible. Note that Obama spent a whole day in NYC talking a victory lap: (1) he “honored” a tree that survived the 9/11 attack, (2) gave a speech at Ground Zero, (3) had lunch (but didn’t eat the shrimp and scallops) at a fire house, (4) went to a police department to “thank” the police, (5) spoke to the family of 9/11 victims. Then a day later he went to Fort Campbell to thank the SEALs (which was OK) but then he gave a TELEVISED speech to soldiers who had nothing to do with the raid. Man, he’s running for RE-ELECTION. The man is shameless in using the military for his own political purpose. 5/19/2011 8:23:28 AM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

Paaa Hey glenn113. Criticizing Obama does NOT mean that one is rooting for the enemy. It’s called Freedom of Speech, an American ideal guaranteed by the constitution. 5/19/2011 8:30:36 AM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

Paaa Hey glenn113. Criticizing Obama does NOT mean that one is rooting for the enemy. It’s called Freedom of Speech, an American ideal guaranteed by the constitution. 5/19/2011 8:30:36 AM EDT

American Shenanigans: Sid Harth

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates reiterated Wednesday his plea for an end to the release of information about the raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound, arguing that the disclosure would compromise future missions.

He quickly got backup from Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

“We are close to jeopardizing this precious capability that we have, and we can’t afford to do that,” Mullen said. “From my perspective it is time to stop talking. We have talked far too much about this. . . . We need to move on.”

It was not the first time that Gates has worried publicly about the extensive and detailed coverage of the raid. A week earlier he told Marines at Camp Lejeune, N.C., that top administration officials watching the raid in the White House Situation Room had all agreed to stay silent on the details of the mission.

“That all fell apart on Monday, the next day,” Gates said.

At a Pentagon news conference Wednesday, Gates was asked if he felt that the White House, which conducted an extensive on-the-record briefing of the raid on May 2, had in its excitement said too much. The defense secretary refused to single anyone out for blame.

“My concern is that there were too many people in too many places talking too much about this operation,” he told reporters. “We want to retain the capability to carry out these kinds of operations in the future, and when so much detail is available it makes that both more difficult and riskier.”

Mullen added that government officials were not the only ones spilling the beans about the mission.

“We’ve had far too many retired people who’ve spoken up,” he said.

Gates said that the SEALs from the raid, whose names are classified, “did express concern, not so much for themselves but for their families,” when he met with them a few days after the raid. The defense secretary suggested that the Pentagon was exploring how best to protect their loved ones from reprisal attacks by terrorists.

“All I will say is that we have been taking a close look at that, and we will do whatever is necessary,” Gates said.

Now, ain’t that just fine! That was a very famous line coming from Oliver Hardy of Stan Laurel-Oliver Hardy pair. As if I am dumb, oops, deaf and dumb, oops, deaf, dumb and a blind monkey to believe what honorable Bill Gates, oops, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and the former prime minister, MacMillan, oops, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff jointly and most willing sad to each other, oops, to the White House. From the day one, Conflicting handouts were discreetly, oops, indiscreetly and most brazenly circulated to the eager media. Not only the submissive, Yes Sir, Mr President, Sir, will do, kind of US media but media in general. Anyone who could spread the holy word from the White House was corralled into a big, oops, big and bad propaganda mill, churning newer and newer versions of the raid at Abbottabad residence of World’s Most Wanted terrorist, oops, al Qaeda terrorist. May Allah be praised, he is dead and not having all this fun and frolic games played about his real or concocted death. Yes, there is a rumor that his death was a play acting. He might be, even as we speak, having a nice, comfortable living in an underground cell at the Farm. Why am I so sinical, oops, sinful in proclaiming a great spin doctoring on the part of American government? Because the truth has been hidden, even from the White House. Nothing that was said and done was above board. Nothing can be undone. Nothing shall change. That is my story. I dare you to publish it. Sue me, sue me, put a bullet though me but I love you, Uncle Sam. There I said it. Over and out.

…and I am Sid Harth

http://sidileak.com/

Today 5/22/2011 6:55:13 PM EDT

alaskan2 Ever since the Sunday night announcement, everyone has been clamoring for more information. Some said they needed to see the pictures and others said we need more info on how it went down. Very few said OK, glad you got him finally and left it alone. Instead there has been nothing but talk. I don’t doubt there were some miscommunication about how the incursion took place. Anytime you have a telling a person or two off the actual participants you can expect errors. The main source of the info at first was the helmet cams which give a distorted view as each one is separate and has to all be merged together by the human brain watching. By the time the Seals were actually debriefed and their s made it to Washington, the story that was already out in the news may have had some wrong info. But I don’t doubt that we got him and I don’t need to see the pictures. I have seen people who have been shot and I am not going looking for more. It is enough for me that those who have seen the pictures, Republicans and Democrats alike, have all said they have no doubt. Bin Laden is dead and buried at sea to keep from having a shrine to him on land. Makes sense to me. . 5/19/2011 7:10:08 PM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

daniel48 It’s wonderful that you’re content, trusting and don’t want any more information. But that really is no defense of requiring those who do want to know from being shut out. I’ve worked in the military and in government for a total 37 years, and from the inside I’ve observed a profoundly unhealthy amount of secrecy. Remember WMDs… the Gulf of Tonkin… Dresden… s of U-boat attacks in the North Atlantic…? People need to wise up. The truth ain’t in the majority of national leaders anymore. For every concise and truthful of events another one is created to distort the truth (with misinformation or disinformation) anytime the government feels that not doing so may interfere with it’s agenda. Wise up before they obliterate the whole planet. 5/19/2011 11:23:14 PM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

OldUncleTom Secretary Gates and Adm Mullen are correct. If you are “not authorized to speak”, then SHUT UP! If you are retired, RETIRE. Your thoughts are no longer valid on the subject. ers, stop pulling anonymous sources out of your assets!

Half the “information” we are receiving is fiction anyway. 5/19/2011 6:41:16 PM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

alance The disinformation released looks like it was created in the basement of Comedy Central. We have more faked video about OBL. First the compound had no satellite dish. Then after a fake photo of him watching sat TV and suddenly the compound has a sat dish. Which federal agency created his porn collection?

Watcher1 They bungled the story right from the beginning. Then each time they retold it they changed the story. First there was a firefight, then only one guy shot at them, then bin Laden had a gun, then he didn’t, then he hid behind one of this wives, then he didn’t. Osama bin Laden died in December of 2001 according to funeral invitations sent out at that time by Al Jazeera. The whole story smells like a dead fish. If they could “build an entire compound” exactly like the compound they raided they could also build the compound they raided ten cliks outside of Pakistan then there would be complete befuddlement by the Paki forces and their intel people as to how we could get both in and out without being detected. The Paki’s aren’t our friends but they aren’t stupid either and they have a fairly sophisticated intelligence network due to their many years of hostile engagements with their neighbor, India, much like Israel has. It would be next to impossible to get in and out after a “fire fight” without being observed. Oh yeah, and get rid of whatever body they got at sea, geesh. Now the statement “Stop asking, we’ve told you everything we wanted you to know so shuddup”, and everything else is secret, sort of like not being able to try anyone at Guantanimo in a real court because “there’s secrets”…. 5/19/2011 6:27:39 PM EDT

vulgarisvir Regardless of your thinking I do believe that OBL is dead. I also believe that too much information has been released even if some of it was tainted by a lack of knowledge by those (Obama) releasing such information. The execution of covert operations should remain covert. Any details released concerning such operations only tend to jeapordize future operations and add fuel to an anti American fire. As far as pictures of OBL are concerned I also believe that these should be kept from public view. It is apparent that you have never seen a dead person who has shot in the head with a high powered rifle or even photo’s of such an event. If Bin Laden is still alive you can bet he would have been on TV telling the world that we missed. Grow up and get a real life. 5/21/2011 1:34:19 PM EDT

Desertdiva1 I’d settle for the media ing the news impartially and then moving on to other topics. Today the stories are repeated and rewritten daily with trivial details reviewed ad nauseum. The raid was two weeks ago so let’s move on to something more relevant and not rehash this story. 5/19/2011 11:34:30 AM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

Jamus1 Nary a day goes by where I feel that the American press needs to suppress its insatiable appetite for being the first to release potentially harmful information. Whether it be “deep throat” or Seal Team 6, lust for the sensational overwhelms common sense in the context of public information. I do not believe that we are a better, more enriched civilization because so much information is available. Instead, I believe that western culture has become desensitized to essential community values, reserve that is requisite to morale. Sorry to see Bob Gates depart; he was a beacon of intelligence in the adrift society we call America. 5/19/2011 10:12:59 AM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

kitchendragon50 I believe that Joe Biden is credited with publically congratulating the SEALS Team Six. Now, Disney wants to trademark the name. 5/19/2011 9:41:01 AM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

jeadpt The idoiocy of leaking this type of information has been a problem in every administration. People just can’t keep their mouths shut. 5/19/2011 9:22:04 AM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

strategiesinter As President Obama himself has said “leakers must be punished”, therefore he must lead by example and punish the leakers who violated the agreement not to discuss details.

President Obama, we will be anxioulsy waiting for your news conference announcing the identification of the leakers and their punishment…. 5/19/2011 9:06:12 AM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

vgk1 I think the Navy wants it both ways here. They want the notoriety of the Seals for recruitment, funding, etc but now they realize there’s a down side to this. If it had been released to the media as a JSOC operation conducted by JSOC personnel, this would be a moot point. 5/19/2011 9:02:40 AM EDT

tilly123 it is true that we have given widest range of publications of the death of laden due to these publications after his death he is living in the heart of people and in print and electronic medias. politicians and officials discussions also a lived him. no doubt it was a hit news of today’s but repeated news shown your concerned more. we have talked detailed about him and his activities. how, why , when, where, who,what are the questions and answers. in my article i suggested that that leave the topic like love get and forget. in this way we have shown our worries, concerned and how strong he was so we have pour our energy dedicate to him. if you are not a god we will make you a god. so we did and adopted these means . we enhanced his popularity and after his death he became toppest news secured person. we have exposed every things and given opportunities to pak and other supporters to remain safe. i may be wrong but true facts i have narrated and it is just like mirage or shadow . if you will want to catch the shadow you will follow it will go away and you be stand by it will be no where. 5/19/2011 6:55:19 AM EDT

realtimer Unfortunately, we have a ‘Ship of UNintelligent Fools’, whose Ego’s trump Reason. But above all don’t forget there are bigger fools in the enabling press, including the WASHPO and , especially, the New York Times. You might also remember the Author, “Anonymous”, who was allowed to publish by his CIA boss while ON THE JOB!! As I said ‘Fools’ one and all!! 5/19/2011 6:14:49 AM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

Auburninbp Reelection means more to this WH than governing the country. How Obama stays as high in polls as he does mystifies me. Unless the GOP run Daffy Duck for president, Obama or any Demo can’t count on my vote. 5/19/2011 4:53:15 AM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

brwing We should have released precious little on the raid and have already loosed to much valuable tactical information and most likely have lost the element of surprise making much of the captured information obsolete. What idiots. I would not want to be a SEAL having to operate in this porous environment. The Government is totally irresponsible. Between Wikileaks and our press and our Government who wants to be an ally? Were I the Joint Chiefs I would be all over this. 5/19/2011 2:20:19 AM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

RickJohnson621 I said this the day after Obama’s announcement. The Obama speech should have been the final word. Instead every journalist felt they had to write a story on the raid and every Obama official from Obama himself down to the last cook in on the operation felt a need to discuss the raid. Al Qaeda are not stupid. They are more computer savvy than most people in this country. Thanks to the big mouths, they have all taken measures to evade any intelligence that we got from the raid.

I am willing to bet you next time the houses and measures to prevent these kind of raids will be put in place by Al Qaeda. There is a very dangerous “irrational exuberance” on the part of the Obama administration that will not only make future operations more difficult, but also put the lives of our troops in danger now. Just shut up! 5/18/2011 10:30:46 PM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

glenn113 Way too much info. had gotten leaked out in the first or second day. 5/18/2011 10:19:12 PM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

dmscontractor I agree with Dr. Gates. This falls under the “Need to Know”. Those seeking information must have proper clearance, and justify the need to know information in the performance of their assigned duties. This obviously excludes those who seek fame, fortune, recognition, status or other non social redeeming values, unless they can show it would be in the interest of the public good. 5/18/2011 9:25:44 PM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

daniel48 People who cling to that “need to know” mantra — the military hawks, the government agents, etc. — need to understand that they are given clearance by a system of self-governed people who’s tolerance is coming to an end. People who act on other’s behalf, who are unwilling to have their actions and communications scrutinized (within reason) by those others, shouldn’t be trusted. 5/18/2011 10:13:42 PM EDT

jmochungo Each time I read about or hear these disclosures on TV or radio, I ask myself, whose interests are being served? Gloating by this administration? Time a lid was put on those mouths! 5/18/2011 9:20:46 PM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

JFB34 Seems Americans could care less about divulging sensitive information. Some reason I assumed we were at war and that applied to everyone. Most honest,patriotic Americans would never say a word about things going on under the circumstances. Just remember a very old saying,”Loose lips sink ships!” Guess we are sinking,huh? Its one thing to invoke freedom of the press but another thing to print everything about operations and our troops in the papers. Used to be we were Americans. Guess we are for sale to anyone with the money or anyone who will love sensitive information and the ers get lots of recognition and prestige. God have mercy on America. 5/18/2011 9:01:08 PM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

FlyDiesel Operational details should not have been revealed in the first place. “We got him” is more than enough. 5/18/2011 8:55:46 PM EDT

Recommended by 5 readers

glenn113 Agree! 5/18/2011 10:18:07 PM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

tototiti In “We got him”, what proof is there about that “him” ? Obama says there is no doubt “him” is Bin Laden, but what about those who *have* doubts ? What sort of “Justice is done” is this, without trial, prof, body, nothing ? What proof did *Obama* see that it was “him” ? Remember those WMD in Iraq ?

No proof, no corps, no photo, no film, no dead terrorist. This all stinks of a CIA coup. 5/19/2011 6:54:38 AM EDT

indi2

What on earth the benefits we can get from disclosing the raid details? It is pure stupidity. We kill ourselves in the name of free info, free talk, free press, free care, free whatever including freedom to be stupid. What caused 911? Stupidity. 5/18/2011 8:48:53 PM EDT

Recommended by 6 readers

giedgar The truth of the matter is, in my opinion, the president said too much to start with. Details were entirely unneccessary, all the public had to know is that Osama was dead via a military operation. There was no need for him to say it was at his order to have the individual ‘taken out’. That was stupid, in my opinion, it made the president of the United States sound like a hood ordering a hit on a rival gang member. He did not win my vote with his comments. And after all is said and done isn’t that what it was all about, pumping his chest saying ‘See what I did’ to gather a vote or two? 5/18/2011 8:46:30 PM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

Watcher1 Isn’t that exactly what it was? A hood ordering a hit on a rival gang member? Not much difference here. If the SEALS were ordered to kill on sight even if the guy surrendered it makes them a “hit” squad no different than the “hit squads” of all the South American and other dictators we’ve heard about and whom we’ve held in contempt. We’re supposed to be a nation of laws not “Hit squads”. 5/19/2011 9:37:07 AM EDT

azereta Lol….I was hoping that pictures of his underwear would be posted. 5/18/2011 8:38:53 PM EDT Recommend

elfraed Look for it on The Daily Show w/Jon Stewart 5/19/2011 4:05:29 AM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

daniel48 This is the administration that ran on transparency. The people have a right to know what has been done. The burden of proof to show why this action should not be fully disclosed (except for soldiers identities of course) should be on Gates and Obama. How convenient though to be able to say that even talking about why it’s risky to talk about it is too risky. Utter sophistry! 5/18/2011 8:35:16 PM EDT

x32792 As we approach the 2012 elections, the final revised version will have Bambo leading the Seal team in the actual assault …This is all he’s got and he will continue to milk it for all it’s worth and then some. 5/18/2011 8:33:18 PM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

larrypoke I’ll just bet they want everyone to shut up about this incident because they have hidden far more than they have revealed. There are still some Americans who have legitimate questions to which we all have a right to ask and have answered. The whole story has huge holes in it which need to be filled. Sorry Sec. Gates and Adm. Mullen we won’t shut up until we’re satisfied that what we have been told is the real truth. 5/18/2011 8:30:49 PM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

giedgar When will everyone be satisfied? What fantasy world are you living in? Haven’t you ever heard the saying ‘You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time but you can’t please all of the people all of the time’. And no, you don’t need to know everything. Do you know everything about everyone in your family? 5/18/2011 8:51:46 PM EDT

Recommended by 1 reader

glenn113 have you every heard of loose lips sink ships….We should get very basic what happened and that is it…Having the public know all the details is not worth jepordizing killing more of the bad guys that want to do us. harm. 5/19/2011 12:42:57 AM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

Bubbette1 Guess he better talk to Odumbo who seems to want to make a career of spiking the ball on this issue. Of course given the lack of any positives from this administration to talk about it is understandable. 5/18/2011 8:10:08 PM EDT

Recommended by 3 readers

glenn113 You’re rooting for the enemy? 5/18/2011 10:22:41 PM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

Paaa The reason so many people are talking about this is that Obama and the White House want to get as much credit as possible. Note that Obama spent a whole day in NYC talking a victory lap: (1) he “honored” a tree that survived the 9/11 attack, (2) gave a speech at Ground Zero, (3) had lunch (but didn’t eat the shrimp and scallops) at a fire house, (4) went to a police department to “thank” the police, (5) spoke to the family of 9/11 victims. Then a day later he went to Fort Campbell to thank the SEALs (which was OK) but then he gave a TELEVISED speech to soldiers who had nothing to do with the raid. Man, he’s running for RE-ELECTION. The man is shameless in using the military for his own political purpose. 5/19/2011 8:23:28 AM EDT

Recommended by 2 readers

Paaa Hey glenn113. Criticizing Obama does NOT mean that one is rooting for the enemy. It’s called Freedom of Speech, an American ideal guaranteed by the constitution. 5/19/2011 8:30:36 AM EDT

Recommended by 4 readers

Paaa Hey glenn113. Criticizing Obama does NOT mean that one is rooting for the enemy. It’s called Freedom of Speech, an American ideal guaranteed by the constitution. 5/19/2011 8:30:36 AM EDT

The World is my Oyster: Sid Harth

Most of the attention around the outcome of the assembly elections last week has been on the dramatic defeat of the Communists in West Bengal and the DMK in Tamil Nadu, and the compelling stories of the two political leaders behind it. The narrative on Kerala has centered on an unusually close verdict triggered by an incumbent Chief Minister who, at times, ran more in opposition to his own government and his party than the Congress-led United Democratic Front.

Dan Istitene/Getty Images Although Kerala is India’s most literate state, unemployment remains a major concern.

As the focus now shifts to governance though, the story of Kerala becomes significant, perhaps even more so than that of West Bengal and Tamil Nadu. What is at stake in Kerala is the effectiveness of coalition governance in an era of fragmented electoral politics, and, of even more importance, the sustainability of the only real inclusive development model that has succeeded in post-independence India.

Unlike the rest of the country, Kerala has had a deeply entrenched coalition structure since the late 1970s. With rare exceptions, the coalition partners have stuck to the alliance through elections and revolving stints in the government and opposition. For the first time since the 1970s, however, the arithmetic of victory is narrow enough for the Congress’s main partners in the UDF, the Indian Union Muslim League and the Kerala Congress, to exert considerable sway on the direction of the new government. India’s electoral politics over the next few years, and especially at the Centre, is more likely to resemble the coalition structure and narrow margins of victory in Kerala than the sweeping mandates for single parties seen in West Bengal and Tamil Nadu. And, therefore, how Oommen Chandy, the leader of the new government who took office this week, negotiates competing interests and priorities to craft an effective agenda for the state will surely provide lessons for the Congress, the BJP and their allies.

The need for such an agenda is even more significant because the very viability of Kerala’s inclusive path of development is in question.

For 40 years since independence, Kerala showcased a unique development trajectory in India where consistent and dramatic improvements in social welfare happened despite slow economic growth. Across every indicator of social development today, Kerala outshines the wealthiest and fastest growing states in the country: highest literacy rate in the country; a life expectancy of 75 years that is more at par with that of South Korea and Japan than that of high-income Indian states like Maharashtra and Gujarat; a low infant mortality rate of 12 in 1,000 that is substantially better than China at 17 in 1,000; and, as the latest census results show, the only state with a sex ratio that is skewed in favor of women. For India, this is a remarkable model of post-independence success, where the benefits of development have been truly inclusive and not limited to a minority.

Till the state started posting near-double digit economic growth in recent years, much of the debate centered on what was responsible for this paradox between slow economic growth and dramatic improvements in human welfare. One school of thought attributed the improvements to the aggressive redistribution efforts of the Left, starting with land reforms in the 1950s and continuing with a dominant role for the state in education and healthcare backed by mobilization of civic organizations. A competing explanation attributes Kerala’s success to delayed benefits reaped by a long history of progressive policies in princely states which targeted universal education, aided by a matriarchal social structure where women were the decision makers and inheritors of family wealth.

Irrespective of the explanations for Kerala’s past success, the reality of the state today is that a development path dependent on public spending is no longer sustainable. With fiscal deficit exceeding 30 percent of the state GDP and a total debt of more than 700 billion rupees, the state no longer has the ability to finance the system it has created. And the outstanding achievements in expanding access to education and healthcare create an imperative now to reorient attention from improving access to improving quality and affordability.

At the same time, these achievements mask other critical challenges. Kerala’s violent crime rate is nearly twice the national average; the state has the highest suicide rate in the country; there is a steep uptick in the incidence of chronic diseases; while Kerala ranks among the top in the country in terms of proportion of people completing tertiary education, study after study has pointed to the steep decline in the quality of graduates; and an environmental eco-system that has shown severe deterioration in the last two decades. Underlining the difficulties is an average unemployment rate as high as 25%.

As an American Enterprise Institute study pointed out last year, the relevant question then becomes a very different one. Why is a state that is strategically located with a population whose talent is fueling the economies of other states and the Middle East, not achieving a lot more in its own backyard? The AEI study attributed it to excessive intervention from the state and a business climate that is hostile to private investments. The labor laws and norms in the state reward union membership more than they do productive labor. The result has been an economy which, while it has grown above the national average recently, has been really powered by remittances from outside the state, resulting in lop-sided growth in the service sector, including in real estate.

So, what’s next for Kerala? It has two starkly different choices: either it can attempt to spur job growth inside the state through attracting new private investments, or it can double down as a genuine retirement destination that exports highly skilled talent and creates an environment and social structure that welcomes retirees with high disposal income. In either of these two choices, the immediate reform agenda is remarkably similar: the need to re-define the role of the state, the urgent need to improve the quality of secondary and tertiary education, the need to make healthcare more affordable and reoriented towards an aging population, ramp-up of investment in basic utility services, and a thoughtful program to undo damage to an environment that is so central to the state’s well being and raison d’être.

This reform agenda, though, is a non-starter until the UDF government directly confronts the two pillars of the Left movement in Kerala: its eagerness to mobilize its cadre to take its opposition to the streets, and its monopoly of the development narrative over the last few decades. In the first, the UDF government will find a challenge similar to what the Trinamool is likely to face in West Bengal. The assembly elections by no means herald the end of the leftist forces in either state, and the electoral defeats will only spur the wounded comrades to an unapologetically confrontational posture in the opposition.

But it is in the second pillar that the newly elected Chief Minister will find the opportunity of a generation. Spurred on by its early successes, especially in land reforms, the Left has controlled and shaped the narrative of the state for two generations. But it is a narrative that has, over the years, become one not of affirmation of anything in particular but one of outright rejection of every modernist and progressive influence from the world. It is a narrative that opposes private investment even as the Communist party builds its own network of private enterprises. And it is an inward-looking narrative that is at conflict with the instincts of a people that have a long history of confident engagement with the world outside.

Kerala is a state that embraced a world that turned up on its coasts, the world that came not as marauding invaders through the Hindu Kush but as pilgrims and explorers and traders from the east and the west. It is a state whose entrepreneurs have created thriving enterprises outside its boundaries, whose emigrants have built roads and airports and factories in the middle of desert sands and whose progeny have cut stones and healed diseases in far away continents. This is not the state of the Left’s imagination.

The challenge for the new Chief Minister then is to start building an agenda rooted in a compelling new narrative that can replace the jaded narrative of the Left Front. The willingness of voters to accept a new path and narrative for the state will also be largely dependent on the government’s ability to convince them that the new policies are fair, not subservient to any interest group, and stand the test of integrity every single day. In his ability to do this will rest both the future of India’s only successful experiment to date in inclusive development, and the contours of his own political legacy.

Based in New Delhi, Ajit Mohan has worked with private and public institutions around the world. His work in public policy has covered urban renewal, education and public health, and more recently, he led the work and co-authored McKinsey Global Institute’s “India’s Urban Awakening: Building inclusive cities, sustaining economic growth” published in 2010. Prior to the elections in Kerala, he advised the Kerala Pradesh Congress Committee’s Economic Policy and Planning Wing though the views expressed here are his own.

Comments (7)

Newest

6:15 pm May 19, 2011 Sid Harth wrote:

Love ya my buddy. All that background, oops, baggage of yours could frighten a mouse, oops, a red faced monkey, not I. Your very long and very fanciful rendition would be remembered, oops, quickly forgotten by current and future politicians of any variety, say entrenched Commies, disenfranchised secular Congies, bunch of machete wielding Hindutva brigaads and, naturally, their Muslim counterpart, Muslim Jehadis. If I were a gambler, which, for my avid readers on WSJ, I am not, I will bet my dollar on the old, tried and trusted model. “Spend da money.” It works fine for the Democrats, oops, Demonic Rats in the good old USA. Why not the tree hugging, oops, community hugging local political warlords? Kerala, as you so elegantly put, delivers her the best to other states, mostly to Bombay, oops, Maharashtra and New Delhi as civil service product. Kerala also provides to Indian diaspora, mostly in the middle east, where their Drachmas, oops, Dirhams keep the homes and hearths in Kerala warm. Kerala is also supplying its top-notch professionals to the USA. That mighty, oops, almighty dollar pipeline keeps Kerala churning more doctors, more Engineers, more professors, more scientists, more gas station attendants and perhaps, to a lesser extent “chatai” weavers. Just kidding. Among my friends, I find Keralites to be more adaptive, more progressive and more worldly-wise. Bless all those Malayalam souls. If the government gives special tax breaks to the SEZ developers for manufacturing and exporting their products made in India, they ought to treat Kerala as a big, fat, all inclusive SEZ. Give them a break. Export of goods and merchandise can be also extended to the export of talented coolies and professionals. You know what? I bet you don’t. Kerala also exports their Nuns to most European countries. Don’t be shocked to find one in the Vatican. As a matter of fact I wasn’t when I greeted one very smart babe, oops, beautiful lassie, oops, most humble servant of God right in the St Peters. Take it easy my good buddy, Ajit Mohan, I too am blamed for pontification. What else is there? More the merrier. Have a nice day in Rome, oops, Washington, DC.

…and I am Sid Harth

http://cogitoergosumworld.com/

4:34 pm May 19, 2011 Anup wrote:

“One school of thought attributed the improvements to the aggressive redistribution efforts of the Left, starting with land reforms in the 1950s and continuing with a dominant role for the state in education and healthcare backed by mobilization of civic organizations. A competing explanation attributes Kerala’s success to delayed benefits reaped by a long history of progressive policies in princely states which targeted universal education, aided by a matriarchal social structure where women were the decision makers and inheritors of family wealth.”

WSJ – why don’t you just give credit to the Left where it is due, rather than try to dilute it by bringing up princely states & matriarchal structures. The fact is if it were not for the Left, you would not have seen the inclusive progress in Kerala. BTW I not sure why WSJ is batting for the UDF, whose economic policies are technically socialist! OK they do give land to big industries for free.

3:50 pm May 19, 2011 Prashanth K.P. wrote:

A good article to read. Reality is otherwise. Kerala is a state begotten by religious/caste/area/political considerations in that order. Politics coming a distant third in priority and religion coming first, the state is doomed to perish from its democratic zone in the near future. This heavy polarization will give birth to another Kashmir in the not too distant future. While LDF has been checked in their polarized activities, UDF is shamefully immersed in it. It goes like how many seats Muslims get, how many seats Christians get so on and so forth. Therefore, to give a positive pat to the State is beyond comprehension now.

11:21 am May 19, 2011 Deepak wrote:

Although the article is far from what can be called a balanced view, good to see many important issues being raised. Especially, the need to be private-investment friendly – in the context of neighboring states that are vying for private investment and are willing to trade-off anything for it.

>>but one of outright rejection of every modernist and progressive influence from the world.

Not very sure this aligns with contemporary understanding of the term “progressivism”. Infact, I suspect that a minimal state (which is what the article seems to try to advocate, by generously encouraging private investment) is opposite to what is usually called “progressive”. But, no point in getting bogged down with terminology

10:25 am May 19, 2011 vishnu wrote:

“Prejudices are what fools use for reason”

10:17 am May 19, 2011 vishnu wrote:

Communist movements favor the working class(or what else is communism). Kerala and WB remains the last bastions of communism and marxism. It is true that communist movement in the state has fueled a sort of militant trade unionism. Yet it is just a corollary of empowerment of the working class You find bad eggs (greedy beyond imagination) among capitalists. Their greed bring down economies . Create unemployment and instability world over every other decade. Likewise there have been sections among the left movement that has brought itself discredit. Left led governments in Kerala & Bengal,the last ones, have been genuinely pro-industry Both had excellent ministers at the helm of key portfolios -Finance and Industry. Where the left faltered was in the 80s and 90s when India for the first time started seeing genuine industrialists unlike the crony capitalists of the past decades. Instead of welcoming “enterprise” it saw the changes through the old dogmatic lens which presented them with vignettes of exploitation of the past. It certainly has made correctives in last decade. Congress with it unprincipled(pray what does it stand for),communal(please go through the profile of UDF MLAs of Kerala) and corrupt(nothing to explain here) agenda has nothing to offer for Kerala.

9:40 am May 19, 2011 S. Appunni wrote:

Now that the Commies have been kicked out of power. The immediate thing to do next is take up projects to improve the welfare of the people.

NEW DELHI: Under fire for carrying an expired arrest warrant to Denmark that botched up the extradition of Kim Davy, the main accused in the 1995 Purulia arms drop case , the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) Thursday said its documents have been put “in order” now.

Terming the goof-up as an “oversight”, a CBI official told media that the agency has sought revalidation of the warrant, which will be extended till Aug 20. The warrant that a CBI team took to a Danish court had expired in January.

The agency got the fresh warrant from the special CBI court and a scanned copy was sent immediately to the team in Copenhagen.

The original copy of the warrant has also been sent to Copenhagen for the court hearing in Denmark that resumed Thursday.

The CBI came in for strong criticism from opposition parties for botching up the extradition of Davy, accused of dropping a cache of arms in West Bengal’s Purulia district from an An-26 aircraft Dec 17, 1995.

Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leader Sushma Swaraj slammed the government for what she termed as a “big embarrassment”.

“Here is another blunder. CBI reached Copenhagen with an expired warrant for Kim Davy. Big embarrassment for the country. Is anybody accountable in this government,” she wrote on Twitter.

She said “oversight” had become the “all time excuse” for the government, referring to the government’s response to the goof-up of India’s list of 50 most wanted fugitives given to Pakistan, the controversial appointment of the Central Vigilance Commissioner P.J. Thomas.

“They say expired warrant is an ‘oversight’. Oversight in CVC papers. Oversight in India’s Most Wanted List. It is an all-time excuse.”

Communist Party of India-Marxist (CPI-M) leader Sitaram Yechury, criticising the CBI, said it has had a “lackadaisical approach” in seeking Davy’s extradition.

“CBI must immediately change its lackadaisical approach. They must correct it in the interest of the country. It is a very serious matter considering internal security,” Yechury told IANS.

The CBI, Yechury said, “must ensure Davy’s extradition in the interest of the country”.

The government sent a two-member team – a CBI officer and a lawyer – to Denmark seeking Davy’s extradition. The team left for Denmark May 16.

Davy had earlier alleged that Indian intelligence agencies had a role in the arms drop case.

In an interview to Times Now TV channel, Davy alleged that the then P.V. Narasimha Rao government had plotted the operation to destabilise the West Bengal government by arming locals in the Left-ruled state.

He claimed that India’s external intelligence agency Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) planned the operation with the help of its British counterpart MI-5.

Readers’ Opinions (1)

Sid Harth Harth (USA)

This item shows, very clearly, as to what extent the Congress led alliance, UPA-II would go to postpone that much delayed extradition of the alleged accused, Kim Davy. Congress is disgraced by these shameless shenanigans. The worry, on the part of CBI deputies is that they may succeed in his extradition, bring him hand-cuffed to hold him in CBI interrogation cell. Let us assume the likely scenario. I am illustrating that eventful day in CBI’s new highly computerized headquarters recently opened by, none other than our prime minister, Dr Manmohan Singh. Act one, Scene one, Day one: Please allow me: “abe chutiya, kim ko khich kar lao, jaldi, jaldi. bahg shaitan. kya mera hukum nahi sunata?” the station attendat cliks his shes smartly without looking at the face of his lord and master station chief and replies.. “han ji huzur. abhi gaya aur abhi aya. ” makes about turn and marches on with ceremonial Russian goose steps towards the cell. ” abe chutiya, murde, khol teri kothari. mujhe bilkul taim nahi. huzursahib kim ko phansi par chadhane chahate hain. jaldi-jaldi.” The sleepy, and much inebriated guard opens the cell doors and scans the interior with a flash light. To his surprise, he finds only a small mouse rushing to his abode in the wall. turning to our brave jamadar and stutters. ” huzursahib, woh chuha bhag gaya” Jamadar yells, ” kaun chuha?” the attendant replies “kim kutta, oops, kim chuha. Ha.”. and holding his stomach rolls over on the floor.

Who today in India is making the most vociferous case to let the markets function and for the government to play facilitator rather than bully?

I’d argue it’s not any bureaucrat, policy wonk or columnist in Delhi, but a group of farmers protesting in nearby Uttar Pradesh against their government’s approach to land acquisition for the Yamuna Expressway project. The project, when completed, will create a six-lane, 165-kilometer freeway that will cut travel time from New Delhi to Agra to two hours from at least four. Last week, as protests flared, at least four people, including two policemen, died in the violence.

This is the next chapter in an ongoing saga, punctuated by the arrest of Rahul Gandhi, a Member of Parliament and office bearer of the Indian National Congress who last year had promised to be the farmers’ “soldier in Delhi”. Mr. Gandhi has been released on bail.

Last September, in the wake of violent protests over the same project, the Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Mayawati announced a new land acquisition policy which would raise the amount per square meter each farmer would receive, although crucially this would remain set by the government.

So what do the farmers want and does it make sense? And can their actions be construed as anti-development?

Unlike in some other disputes such as the Vedanta bauxite mining project in Orissa that the government rejected, the issue here is not principally about farmers or tribals not wanting to sell their land. The farmers’ objection is that the government’s approach of fixing the price grossly undervalues their land, which will presumably jump exponentially in value when converted from agricultural to commercial use.

What is more, according to news reports, the farmers, in particular the Federation of Indian Farmers Organizations, would prefer that the state stop acting as “property dealers and brokers” and allow the farmers to negotiate directly with the private sector developers.

Far from being anti-development, the U.P. farmers’ position makes good economic sense in at least two ways.

First, the farmers are right that it’s arbitrary and unfair for the government to stipulate a fixed price per hectare of land in advance of negotiations. In a normal market with many buyers and many sellers and a homogenous good, the price is determined where demand equals supply. But in this situation, the land only attains its full value after the sale is consummated and the property developed.

In a market-based land acquisition scenario, striking a deal is much closer to what economists call “bilateral bargaining,” where two parties are haggling and the final terms reflect each side’s relative bargaining power. But in the U.P. case, for the government or anyone else to set a fixed price in advance of negotiations between the two principal parties short circuits this normal bargaining process and prevents the market from functioning. Hence the farmers’ dissatisfaction.

In this light, the farmers’ agitation can be understood not as obstructing a development project but, by ratcheting up the pressure, turning the bargain in their favor. Even claiming that they would refuse to sell their land at any price, as a few farmers have said, is a great bargaining strategy. It’s no different from a labor union threatening to go on strike to get a better wage from an employer.

Second, those farmers who favor direct negotiation with developers as the most efficient way of reaching a deal also have sound economics on their side. This approach would cut out the middleman, in this case the state government. Under the current U.P. program, the government pays a low price to the farmers, charges a high price to the developers, and thereby extracts most of the gravy, to say nothing of creating opportunities for corruption.

The farmers’ belief in their own savvy as negotiators would seem to belie the commonly heard argument that the government needs to be involved to prevent them from being exploited or intimidated by large private-sector players. Rather, the current system, led by the government, seems to be fleecing the farmers.

The current system would also seem to work more in favor of the developers than the farmers because it’s simpler to deal with one actor, the government, than negotiate individually with small groups. In economic terms, it solves the coordination problem of one buyer having to negotiate individually with many sellers but does so by transferring most of the gains to the government at the expense of both parties. The developers, too, should therefore prefer negotiating directly with a group of farmers.

Here’s the dilemma. If the government stays out, it’s possible that small sellers will fail to coordinate in negotiating with the large buyer, which may result in the deal falling through or of the small seller getting ripped off. But if the government acts as broker and uses its coercive power to force a deal, farmers also could get the short end of the stick.

In practice, there will be ongoing and messy three-way negotiations, with the government involved whether anyone likes it or not. Some politicians will find it expedient to side with the farmers, who in turn have an interest in publicizing their cause. The issue has already become highly politicized, with so far more heat than light, and little of concrete benefit for the farmers.

The ideal solution would therefore involve the government acting purely as facilitator and coordinator between buyers and sellers, rather than its current role as rent extractor and price-setter. A suitably crafted land acquisition bill, or an interim ordinance, could achieve this, and ensure that the bulk of the gains accrue to the buyers and sellers, not the government. Transparent rules of the game are key as they create trust among all parties that the final outcome is fair. We need to end the License Raj in land acquisition.

The bottom line is that there’s nothing irrational about what the farmers in U.P. are doing and no inherent challenge to India’s development model. Our desire to have a fast route from Delhi to Agra has to be weighed against appropriate compensation for the farmers who’re going to lose their land and livelihood.

It’s not a question of growth versus equity, but growth with equity. Our farmers seem to understand that better than our politicians and policy wonks. They just want a piece of the action, like we all do.

My dear Rupa Subramanya Dehejia, I love you Stop My “Little Old Lady,” has put Hex on me Stop According to her Law Stop No woman live or dead Stop can be named atfter the end of my sentence, “I love,” Stop That is not mine Stop Namely my wife Stop Just kidding. You are a Spring chicken, oops, a Spring of fresh, undiluted water, oops clear as a montain spring water. I am allowed to say that according to my “LOL’s LAW.” Kidding aside, not if WSJ Community permits so. I am serious. Advocacy has become a new, oops, freshly new BuzzWord in India. Supreme Court is lauded, as well as eulogized from the Country Capitol, oops, Capital, to the back yard Hooch vendor’s “adda,” Hindi for shop. Although, the Right Wing Fundamentalists Hindu outfits, too many to name here, have used whips to ward off advocacy in the past. These advocates, oops, advocacy individuals were called names. For instance, “Commies.” Arundhati Roy et al were taken to court for assassinating their private and patented “Hindu,” religion.” It is all water under the bridge. The same outfits are getting into fits. Usually their kind get into fisticuffs. Farmers’ demands, be it for a fair compensations of their farm lands, their rehabilitations, oops, guaranteed rehabilations or their bank loans being forgiven, are real and need to be addressed at the highest levelas. Just two short years ago Maharashtra faced almost a deluge of farmers’ suicides on account of banks forclosing on their mortgages. Sonia Gandhi had to interfere to staunch that mass bleeding of the village farming community. One homely poor farmer’s wife, Kalavati, became an instant celebrity, with a little help from Rahul Gandhi. Times are tough for growing India. Growing like a dandelion weed. Every which way you look, you see smoke stacks belching chimneys producing, not corn, not wheat, not rice. not bajra or lentils. The essential ingredients of Indians. Flying ash dumps are not heaps anymore. They are mountains. Pollutions in such areas is so big and so ugly that young fillies wear Muslim terrorists’ “rumal,” Hindi for a scarf, covering their beautiful faces all except their sun goggles covered eyes. Howzzat for the beginning salvo? Have a nice day.

…and I am Sid Harth

http://cogitoergosumworld.com/

10:34 pm May 17, 2011 SAMAR TYAGI wrote:

you know the actual problem is not the intermediary of the govt. but the real cause lies in the fundamental. suppose a farmer who has 2 hectares of land is sold to govt. at much lower prices than the market ones.he is going to be poorer day by day. as he would not have any other continuous source of income. in reality land is not taken but he is forcibly driven from his living. he is compelled to change his econimic wher he has no expertise. 11:30 am May 17, 2011 Anirban wrote:

Nice article….it should be growth with equity and not growth vs equity. 11:03 pm May 16, 2011 Siddhartha Gupta wrote:

If government doesn’t “coordinate” will it be possible to convince all the small landowners? Ultimately some of them will be coerced. 9:45 pm May 16, 2011 Chacko George wrote:

Nice article. Reminds me of The Greater Common Good by A Roy. But the best part is this article doesnt take any side. Hard fact is that somebody is paying for the development that we take for granted. 11:48 am May 16, 2011 Mahboob wrote:

Can we have some data please?

I saw a report in a TV channel where they said that the farmers sold the land to the government at Rs 45 lakh per acre, and when the government sold it at Rs 90 lakh per acre, they got wild.

If this is true, then the state exchequer gained. The farmers already got a fair value at *that* point in time when they sold. To take the streets to show to be on the side of farmers is politically correct and an election gimmick.

– Mahboob @mahboob_h 10:47 am May 16, 2011 Keith Wroblewski MD wrote:

Thanks for your insightful comments. In my home state of Pensylvania,USA, the government typically fixes the price for the homes or land and while it may not be fair initially, the Kantian utilitarian argument of the expressway’s good for the economic good of that sector probably supercedes the good for the isolated few farmer’s. The real question is what efforts the Inidian government will make to help those farmer’s reacquire land in another region and at what cost to those farmers.

NEW DELHI — India spends more on programs for the poor than most developing countries, but it has failed to eradicate poverty because of widespread corruption and faulty government administration, the World Bank said Wednesday.

“India is not getting the ‘bang for the rupee’ that its significant expenditure would seem to warrant, and the needs of important population groups remain only party addressed,” John D. Blomquist, lead economist at the World Bank, wrote in a nearly 400-page study released Wednesday.

India spent 2 percent of its gross domestic product, or $28.6 billion last year, on social programs to alleviate and prevent poverty, the World Bank said, a higher percentage than any other country in Asia and about three times China’s spending.

The programs, central to the Congress party’s platform, include food distribution and health insurance initiatives that are supposed to reach hundreds of millions of households. The report was written at the “request of the government of India” and with full participation from various government bodies, the report said.

The World Bank on Wednesday recommended a radical overhaul of India’s social programs. “Marginal changes alone may not deliver the kind of safety net which a changing India needs for its poor and for its economy,” Mr. Blomquist wrote.

One of the primary problems, the World Bank said, was “leakages” — an often-used term in development circles that refers to government administrators and middle men stealing money, food and benefits. The bank said that 59 percent of the grain allotted for public distribution to the poor does not reach those households.

Instead of distributing food, the government might be better off giving out food stamps or cash transfers that can be easily traced through technology, the World Bank said.

India, the world’s the second-fastest growing major economy, after China, has had an economic boom in recent years that is transforming urban areas and creating a new class of extremely wealthy people. But social problems, including poverty, disease and illiteracy, remain widespread.

About 455 million Indian citizens live on less than $1.25 a day, the World Bank’s poverty line. A United Nations study released last year found more people living below the poverty threshold in eight states in India than in all of sub- Saharan Africa.

Letter From India

<a href=”http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/world/asia/12iht-letter12.html?_r=1&ref=terrorism”>Bin Laden’s Killing as Seen From India</a> By MANU JOSEPH Published: May 11, 2011

NEW DELHI — As the news of Osama bin Laden’s death spread around the world, the jubilation in India had as much to do with where he was found as the fact he had been dispatched.

The headline in The Times of India read: “US Kills Osama, Blows Pak Cover.” Mail Today announced: “Osama Killed, Pak Wounded.” India Today described Pakistan on its cover as “Terroristan.”

Many Indians relished the fact that Bin Laden was found in Pakistan, in a large mansion, in the company of a wife U.S. officials described as “young.”

That he maintained such a life in a garrison town two hours from the Pakistani capital appeared to confirm India’s official position that it is in Pakistan’s nature to protect terrorists. In the world according to Indians, the myth of Pakistan as an ally in the war against terror died that night with Bin Laden. The chalk outlines on the floor of the Abbottabad mansion would include, besides the contours of Bin Laden’s last pose, the map of Pakistan.

Bin Laden’s death in Pakistan was particularly satisfying for those Indians who have resented what they took to be the world’s propensity to lump India and Pakistan together.

Modern India, despite its horrible flaws, they would say, is a product of democracy, new capitalism and the unambiguous moral values of Hinduism, which does not define humanity as Hindus and so could not be bothered to call anybody infidels or try to convert them. (There are zealots among Hindus, but their numbers are comparatively few, and their influence has been diminished by the Indian preoccupation with prosperity, whose currency is peace.)

By contrast, they would point out, in Pakistan this year, a woman was sentenced to death for blasphemy. A liberal who protested the country’s blasphemy law was killed and the killer greeted by his supporters with rose petals.

The attacks in the United States on Sept. 11, 2001, did suggest crucial cultural and political differences between India and Pakistan, but in the Indian view, America’s circumstances led it to reward Pakistan. With both the United States and China wooing Pakistan and heavily arming it in their own interests, Indians could only watch as their neighbor reaped the benefits.

Bin Laden’s death in Abbottabad need not mean that the United States will distance itself from Pakistan, or that India would want that. But many here believe that at least now, the outside world is viewing Pakistan’s chaotic political and military leadership and its intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, much the way Indians have long viewed them. That is why they relish Bin Laden’s death.

When Pakistan’s former president and military chief, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, appeared on Indian television, his interviewer, Karan Thapar, told him that the fact that the C.I.A. did not share the intelligence about Bin Laden with Pakistan was “a slap on the face of Pakistan.” General Musharraf nodded reluctantly.

Mr. Thapar then said Pakistan had been “caught with its pants down.” General Musharraf, who had once led Pakistan to war against India, wryly responded, “Well, aren’t you enjoying using these terms?”

Mr. Thapar then insisted that the Bin Laden episode was not an embarrassment, but a “humiliation” for Pakistan. General Musharraf let out a sad chuckle.

Setbacks are nothing new for Pakistan’s military. It fought three disastrous wars with India. According to India, its neighbor has since the 1980s sought vengeance by unleashing terrorists on Indian soil. Pakistan has consistently denied this and accuses India of killing its own civilians through terror.

When Mr. Thapar asked General Musharraf why the Pakistani military could not detect U.S. choppers as they flew in from the west and remained in the country’s airspace for more than two hours, General Musharraf said, matter-of-factly, that most of Pakistan’s radars “are focused more towards your side.”

On the streets of Pakistan, among ordinary people, India provides less cause for concern.

Mohammed Hanif, a Pakistani journalist and the author of the novel “A Case of Exploding Mangoes,” a satire of Pakistan’s military, said in an interview: “People of Pakistan don’t wake up in the morning fearing an Indian attack. They wake up fearing a bomb going off in a mosque or a bazaar. But Pakistan’s army’s reason for existence is India. Even after fighting its own Muslim brothers on its own turf for 10 years, and losing more soldiers than it ever has in a confrontation with India, Pakistan’s army remains India-centric.”

The Indian government understands the complexities of Pakistan, but the average Indian sees no distinction between those who control Pakistan and its people. He imagines a nation that blasts Indians to bits. That is unfortunate, because Indians who travel there are struck by the aspiration of ordinary Pakistanis to be warm to Indians. And Pakistan is a vastly different country from what most Indians imagine.

For instance, most Indians might find it hard to believe that there are Hindu temples in Pakistan and that they are not apologetic shrines where persecuted minorities hide and pray. They are as vibrant as temples in India and are sustained by Hindus who have prospered in Pakistan. In fact, outside one temple in Karachi, a man stood at the door and refused to let in Muslims who had begged him for a quick peek. He was unmoved, but he let me in because I was Indian.

Manu Joseph is editor of the Indian newsweekly Open and author of the novel “Serious Men.”

WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said on Wednesday that while he surmised that “somebody” inside Pakistan was aware that Osama bin Laden was hiding in a compound in the Pakistani garrison town of Abbottabad, there was no evidence so far that anyone in the country’s senior leadership was in on the secret.

“My supposition is, somebody knew,” Mr. Gates said at a Pentagon news conference with Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Beyond that, he said, the Obama administration, which has repeatedly said that Bin Laden seemed to have a “support network” in hiding, had little information.

“We don’t know whether it was retired people, whether it was low level — pure supposition on our part,” Mr. Gates said. “It’s hard to go to them with an accusation when we have no proof that anybody knew.”

Mr. Gates said that his supposition, shared by many other Obama administration officials, did not extend to Pakistan’s top political and military officials. “I have seen no evidence at all that the senior leadership knew,” Mr. Gates said. “In fact, I’ve seen some evidence to the contrary.”

Mr. Gates, a former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, did not elaborate on that evidence. But hundreds of intelligence analysts continue to pore over the large trove of computer files — described as a volume of data comparable to a small college library — which Navy Seals recovered after they killed Bin Laden on May 1 in a raid on his Abbottabad compound, a short distance from an elite military academy that is Pakistan’s West Point.

Asked if the Pakistani senior leadership should pay a price for apparently not knowing that Bin Laden was there, Mr. Gates replied swiftly. “If I were in Pakistani shoes, I would say I’ve already paid a price — I’ve been humiliated, I’ve been shown that the Americans can come in here and do this with impunity.”

Admiral Mullen echoed Mr. Gates. “I don’t think that we should underestimate the humbling experience that this is, and in fact the internal soul-searching that’s going on inside the Pakistani military right now,” he said.

At the same news conference, Mr. Gates and Admiral Mullen each said that there had been too much public discussion about the details of the raid and that there were concerns about security for the families of the Navy Seals who carried it out.

Mr. Gates, who met privately with the Seals four days after the raid, said that the Seals, whose names are classified, “did express concern, not so much for themselves but for their families.” Mr. Gates suggested that there might be security measures taken as precaution against potential retaliation by terrorists.

“All I will say is that we have been taking a close look at that, and we will do whatever is necessary,” Mr. Gates said.

In comments last week at Camp Lejeune, N.C., Mr. Gates said that top administration officials in the White House Situation Room who monitored the raid as it was happening had agreed not to release operational details. “That all fell apart on Monday, the next day,” Mr. Gates said at Camp Lejeune.

Although Mr. Gates appeared to be referring to an extensive May 2 White House briefing on the raid , he said at Wednesday’s Pentagon briefing that he was not singling anyone out.

Admiral Mullen said simply that “it is time to stop talking.”

<a href=”http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/world/asia/15headley.html?ref=terrorism&pagewanted=all”>Chicago Trial May Unmask Pakistan’s Links to Militants</a> By GINGER THOMPSON and DAVID ROHDE Published: May 14, 2011

WASHINGTON — Two years before terrorists struck the Indian port city of Mumbai, a Pakistani-American man named David Coleman Headley began laying the groundwork for the attack, financed, he claims, by $25,000 from an officer in Pakistan’s powerful intelligence service.

Mr. Headley told Indian investigators that the officer, known only as Major Iqbal, “listened to my entire plan to attack India.” Another officer with the intelligence service, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, “assured me of the financial help,” Mr. Headley said.

As the United States presses Pakistan for answers about whether the ISI played a role in harboring Osama bin Laden, Mr. Headley is set to recount his story of the Mumbai attack in a federal courthouse in Chicago. What he discloses could deepen suspicions that Pakistani spies are connected to terrorists and could potentially worsen relations between Washington and Islamabad.

India, the site of the November 2008 attacks, will be monitoring the trial for evidence of the ISI’s duplicity. Pakistan will also be listening to — and is likely to deny — Mr. Headley’s every word. Islamabad has been dismissing his accusations against the ISI as little more than a desperate performance by a man hoping to avoid the death penalty.

An American official who spoke on the condition of anonymity said that the United States government’s view of Mr. Headley — like the debate that has raged in Washington about the ISI for the last decade — was bitterly divided. No agreement exists in Washington on whether the ISI guided Mr. Headley and the attacks on Mumbai.

“It’s not very clear,” the official said. “A lot of this is going to come out of the trial. His claim could just be his claim.”

Still, the very fact that the government is presenting Mr. Headley as a prosecution witness suggests that at least some in the government believe he is telling the truth. And the authorities said they expected the government to present e-mails and tapes of telephone conversations to support his story.

Any new evidence of ISI malfeasance that emerges from the trial will reverberate in Washington, with the relationship between the United States and Pakistan at its most tenuous in years.

A growing chorus on Capitol Hill argues that the discovery of Bin Laden’s hideout and the evidence in Mr. Headley’s case leave no doubt that the ISI and its Pakistani military overseers have played a cynical double game with the United States. Pakistan has received $20 billion in military and development assistance since 2001, and its military, they say, has sheltered Bin Laden, supported Afghan Taliban who kill American troops and guided the militants who attacked Mumbai.

Mr. Headley himself is not on trial. But he will be the main witness against Tahawwur Hussain Rana, a Chicago businessman who is accused of providing financial and logistical support for the 2008 siege in Mumbai. The attack, a barrage of gunfire and grenades, killed at least 163 people, including six Americans. Mr. Rana’s defense is that he agreed to support Mr. Headley’s activities in India because he was led to believe he was working for the ISI, and therefore the Pakistani government.

Bruce O. Riedel, a terrorism expert at the Brookings Institution and former Central Intelligence Agency officer, predicted that the trial would be “the next nail in the coffin of U.S.-Pakistan relations, as the ISI’s role in the murder of six Americans is revealed in graphic detail.”

American authorities have kept much of the evidence secret. Citing national security concerns, they have successfully moved to quash the defense lawyers’ subpoenas for State Department cables and records held by the F.B.I. that discuss Pakistan’s links with militants.

And though the government has charged four other men, including the officer known as Major Iqbal, with aiding and abetting the murder of American citizens, the indictment refers to them either as commanders or associates of the militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, not as having links to the ISI.

In interviews in recent days, American military and intelligence officials who have served in Pakistan argued that the ISI’s story is complex. Some of them portray it as an unwieldy bureaucracy that even Pakistani generals struggle to control. The United States should try to reform the ISI, they argue, not abandon it.

“I think we’re at an extremely critical juncture,” said James Helmly, a retired general who served as the senior American military representative in Pakistan from 2006-8. “We need to mature the relationship.”

Arguably the most feared institution in Pakistan, the ISI has a mythic reputation among Pakistanis as a shadow government with a hand in virtually every major development in the country. Human rights and democracy activists say the agency is out of control and accuse it of carrying out hundreds of disappearances, systematically rigging elections and harassing civilians who support peace with India.

They say the American raid that killed Bin Laden has created a rare moment when the ISI’s judgment and effectiveness is being challenged. Whether the ISI was sheltering Bin Laden or was unaware of his presence, it must be revamped, they say.

In a series of unusual developments in a country long dominated by its powerful military, the ISI chief twice offered to resign last week. News commentators are criticizing the agency, and political parties are demanding that the ISI be reined in.

“It depends on the caliber and the grit of the political leadership,” Rasul Baksh Rais, a leading Pakistani political scientist, said in an interview. “How they can use this opportunity to restructure the civilian-military relationship and bring the military under civilian control.”

American and Pakistani officials said the ISI was still dominated by military officers wedded to an outdated, paranoid and dangerous mindset that the C.I.A. helped create during the 1980s anti-Soviet conflict in Afghanistan. More ultranationalists than jihadists, the ISI’s officers consider themselves to be Pakistan’s true guardians. They see the United States as a feckless and immoral power that is in deep decline, India as Pakistan’s main threat and militants as proxies they can control.

A former American intelligence official said the C.I.A. funneled vast amounts of covert aid to more cooperative sections of the ISI in an effort to strengthen them. Former American officials said they did the same with the Pakistani Army. But progress has been slow.

American critics of the ISI say it will never be reformed or weakened by Pakistan’s civilian leadership. They say that proponents of continued American aid to the ISI are naïve and “apologists” for an agency that has repeatedly double-crossed the United States.

The man who is suddenly an important figure in the relationship between Pakistan and the United States, Mr. Headley, may not be the most reliable witness, despite evidence that he has worked closely with intelligence and drug agencies here and abroad. His adult life is a blur of deceit, involving multiple marriages, illegal business deals and numerous turns in and out of jail.

Mr. Rana’s defense will succeed or fail on his lawyers’ ability to discredit Mr. Headley, who, according to court records, has a history of alcohol and drug abuse. Under threat of prosecution for drug trafficking, he became an informant in Pakistan for the Drug Enforcement Administration.

The defense lawyers are expected to show that Mr. Headley has a long history of deceiving American law enforcement authorities. One anticipated piece of evidence is an informant agreement that would provide the most conclusive evidence yet that Mr. Headley was under contract with the D.E.A. when he began training with terrorists.

Authorities with knowledge of the case say the lawyers are also considering summoning one of Mr. Headley’s ex-wives, a New York woman who works at a department store makeup counter. The lawyers may want the woman to describe how she warned the F.B.I. that her husband was plotting with terrorists, and how the government failed to thoroughly investigate her accusations because Mr. Headley persuaded them that she was lying.

The case is a microcosm of the missteps, distrust and confusion that has marked the American efforts in Pakistan since 2001, according to current and former American officials. Former American officials who have served in Pakistan argued that whatever evidence the trial produces, it would be a mistake to cut off all American aid to the ISI or the Pakistani military.

Marty Martin, a retired C.I.A. official who oversaw the hunt for Bin Laden from 2002 to 2004, said cutting assistance would further isolate Pakistani officers who cooperated with the United States and embolden the powerful militant groups that span Pakistan.

“There is no option except to continue working with them,” Mr. Martin said. “Why? This is not over.”

A version of this article appeared in print on May 15, 2011, on page A6 of the New York edition with the headline: Chicago Trial May Push Pakistan Spy Agency Out of the Shadows.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — In an unusual, and apparently heated, closed-door session of Parliament, Pakistan’s spy chief issued a rousing denunciation of the United States on Friday for its raid that killed Osama bin Laden and denied that Pakistan maintained any links with militant groups, according to lawmakers.

Rather, the spy chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, blamed an intelligence failure for the presence of Bin Laden in the city of Abbottabad, where a top military academy is located and where the leader of Al Qaeda was killed in an American raid on May 2.

General Pasha said he had offered his resignation twice to the leader of the army, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. As his presence before Parliament made clear, it was not accepted.

The two generals were called before the extraordinary 11-hour session to answer to the failures of the military and the intelligence agency that allowed a team of American commandos to enter and leave Pakistan in a stealth helicopter operation undetected.

Unusually vibrant criticism by some politicians and the Pakistani press after the raid compelled them to try to repair the reputation of the military and the intelligence agency, which the army controls.

But after recognizing the lapse, General Pasha rallied Parliament behind him, several legislators said, with strong criticisms of the United States that elicited thumps of approval from the chamber, including leading members of the Pakistan Peoples Party, the major partner in the coalition that the Obama administration supports.

At the end of the session, the leader of the opposition party, Pakistan Muslim League-N, Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan, who has been one of the most severe critics of the military since the raid, closed ranks behind the military. The session was organized so that “a positive message should go out to the masses,” Mr. Khan said.

A resolution that was passed at the session said Pakistan would revisit its relationship with the United States “with the view to ensuring Pakistan’s national interests were fully respected.”

In that vein, Pakistan’s chief spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, or ISI, will not allow the Central Intelligence Agency to conduct operations in Pakistan without the full knowledge of the ISI, General Pasha said.

The spy chief did the talking. General Kayani attended the session, along with the heads of the air force and the navy, but did not speak, apparently to be spared the humiliation. Senior military officials, considered to be above civilian law and a power unto themselves, rarely appear before Parliament, or even its defense committees.

General Pasha told Parliament he had a “shouting match” with the C.I.A. director, Leon E. Panetta, over C.I.A. activities in Pakistan when they met recently in Washington, several lawmakers who attended the session said.

Reviewing the history of American relations with Pakistan, General Pasha declared that the United States, which has provided Pakistan with about $20 billion in aid over the last decade, had let Pakistan down at every turn since the 1960s, including imposing sanctions on the country in the 1990s.

“And now they have conducted a sting operation on us,” General Pasha said, according to one lawmaker. The intelligence chief was referring to the fact that the Obama administration had decided not to inform Pakistan in advance of the raid because of fears that the Pakistanis could not be trusted.

Before answering questions from the more than 400 members of Parliament from both chambers, the military gave a PowerPoint presentation that included photographs of Qaeda militants captured or killed by the ISI since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

General Pasha then explained that Pakistan should be given credit for dismantling Al Qaeda even before the United States killed Bin Laden, according to the accounts from lawmakers after the session.

In a direct assault on statements by American officials that the ISI supports jihadist militant groups, including the Haqqani network in North Waziristan, General Pasha said there was no such policy. “We have nothing to do with the Haqqani network,” he was quoted as saying.

American officials have long maintained suspicion that the Haqqani group, along with the Taliban, has been sheltered and sponsored by Pakistan, which uses them to push Pakistani interests in Afghanistan, where the insurgents attack NATO forces.

Some of the legislators asked for explanations of why the Pakistani Air Force did not detect the American helicopters that ferried the team of Navy Seal commandos into Abbottabad and out again.

The deputy chief of Air Staff Operations, Air Marshal Muhammad Hassan, said the American helicopters were equipped with stealth technology that enabled them to evade radar.

By the time the air force learned about the raid from ground reports at Abbottabad and launched fighter jets, the helicopters had completed their mission and flown out of Pakistan, he said.

But the air marshal, in answer to a question, said that the F-16 jet fighters provided by the United States to Pakistan were capable of shooting down the drones that the C.I.A. flies over the tribal areas to attack militants. The drone campaign has become increasingly unpopular among Pakistan’s politicians even as the Obama administration insists that it has no intention of halting the flights.

For the first time, according to one lawmaker, Air Marshal Hassan acknowledged that Pakistan allowed the United States to fly the drones out of Shamsi Air Base in Baluchistan.

The Pakistani government has always maintained in public that it does not condone the drone campaign, while in private it has given permission for the flights.

Salman Masood contributed reporting.

A version of this article appeared in print on May 14, 2011, on page A7 of the New York edition with the headline: Denying Links to Militants, Pakistan’s Spy Chief Denounces U.S. Before Parliament.

Like most Americans, we have long despaired at the cynicism of Pakistan’s leaders, who accept American “counterterrorist” aid while also sheltering and enabling some of the worst anti-American extremists. But we never imagined that Osama bin Laden would be found hiding in plain sight, a stone’s throw from Pakistan’s leading military academy and an hour’s drive from Islamabad. Pakistan’s behavior since then has only added to the outrage.

Instead of vowing to find out which officials were behind the scheme, Pakistan’s leaders — military and civilian — have tried to deflect all blame and stoke more anti-Americanism. Some members of Congress are asking why the United States should continue to provide billions of dollars in aid to such a faithless ally. For now, at least, an aid cutoff would be self-defeating.

There should be no illusions. We see no sign that Pakistan is ready to stop playing all sides, or will ever figure out that the fight against extremists isn’t a favor to the United States but essential to its own survival.

The equally hard truth is that the United States never would have gotten Bin Laden if it did not have the large military and Central Intelligence Agency presence on the ground that Pakistan has permitted — and American aid has paid for — since 9/11.

There are many more extremists hiding in Pakistan. While Pakistani leaders publicly rail against American drone strikes, they privately tolerate them. Washington needs Islamabad’s cooperation to supply troops in Afghanistan. The best hope for getting out of Afghanistan is some political deal with the Taliban. Pakistan can help facilitate such a deal or undermine it.

There is one other chilling point to consider: the stability of Pakistan’s government — and its nuclear arsenal. Pakistan’s Army might be able to stave off a militant takeover, without American military backing, but we wouldn’t want to bet on it.

President Obama needs to leverage this moment. Many Pakistanis are furious about the raid on their territory. Parliament held an unusual session on Friday, demanding answers from the spy chief who accused Washington of conducting a “sting operation on us.” But many are also outraged by the fact that Bin Laden managed to hide in their country for so long. “Could the self-appointed custodians of the national interest themselves be the greatest threat to national security?” wrote Cyril Almeida of the Dawn newspaper. The television journalist Kamran Khan declared, “We have become the biggest haven of terrorism in the world.”

Parliament adopted a resolution condemning the unilateral attack on Bin Laden as a violation of sovereignty and threatened to close American military supply routes to Afghanistan if drone strikes are not halted. It was not a helpful gesture.

Pakistani leaders are nervous about what more may come out. The trove of computer files seized by the Americans may provide some welcome bargaining power.

The Obama administration also needs to take a harder look at military aid to Pakistan to determine what is vital for counterterrorism and what might be tied to specific benchmarks, like apprehending the Taliban chief, Mullah Muhammad Omar, and members of the Haqqani network.

In its fury, this country should also not lose sight of the fact Pakistan has the potential to be a far greater nightmare than Afghanistan under the Taliban. Economic aid is the best long-term hope of changing the country’s political culture. The five-year, $7.5 billion package for schools, energy and other projects hasn’t gotten off the ground. Congress must approve trade legislation, which is the best way to develop an outward-looking middle class.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton should go ahead with her visit to Pakistan. President Obama should delay setting a date for his trip. Pakistan’s leaders have very tough decisions to make. They need to realize that the days of Washington’s unconditional support are over.

A version of this editorial appeared in print on May 14, 2011, on page A18 of the New York edition with the headline: Pakistan After Bin Laden: The killing shows why the U.S. can’t trust Pakistan, and why it can’t just walk away.

Readers’ Comments

Pakistan After Bin LadenBack to Article »

The killing of Osama bin Laden shows why the U.S. can’t trust Pakistan, and why it can’t just walk away.

6 of 154 Readers’ Comments

Highlights

26.

Brian Delroy Adelaide, Australia May 14th, 2011 8:46 am Pakistan appears to be both fighting against an insurgency, which has cost the lives of thousands of Pakistanis, and providing support to insurgents. I appreciate the argument that insurgents act as proxy warriors against Indian interests in Kashmir, but surely the price Pakistan is paying for this support is too high? I don’t understand this. Recommended by 21 Readers

51.

J-Positive Canada May 14th, 2011 8:53 am Being from Pakistan, I can say that Pakistanis are much angrier with their military and its backed government than they are with America; mainly because they became a part of the US great game in the region. Instead of providing civic amenities and facilities to its people, the corrupt Generals and politicians were serving US interests in the region, fighting its war either against communism or against so-called terrorism and getting paid for it all along the way. Let us make ourselves clear: US paid money to some generals to fight its war against communism. They created people like Osama and Haqqani using funds and training from US and its allies. When the Frankensteinian monsters turned against their very own creators, our generals were again ready to play the game for their partners and in the processes got paid too. This money (so many billions of dollars) was not going to ordinary Pakistanis; they were being dished out by the successive US administrations to those generals who gulped down a major part of it and threw some bones to their corrupt political servants in the country. Therefore it hurts when someone says that Pakistanis are cheats and liars and have stolen money that belonged to the US. No sir, US gave this money to a few generals to do its dirty work. Ordinary Pakistanis only got bomb explosions, death, crime, illiteracy, ignorance fuelled by an equally ignorant media and hatred of ordinary world citizens. They are honest hardworking people who are trying to survive in a land that is being made more and more dangerous for them to live. They get scared when they get threats of destruction from the world; and with hostile neighbours like India and Afghanistan, who never actually swallowed its existence, this fear is now converted into a self-fulfilling paranoia. Now Pakistani people just want one thing from their generals: kick out all the terrorists from our country and kick out US and its agents as well. They have both devastated us, given us death, destruction and darkness and we don’t want them to ruin us any more. Both of them don’t respect our sovereignty and freely raid and kill our people (like the CIA agent Raymond Davis who killed innocent Pakistanis and was swiftly released by our agencies because they couldn’t withstand US pressure). We want electricity, education for our children, health facilities and law and order. We don’t want any aid because we can survive without it. We want to be able to make our own decisions ourselves. We just want out army to give our country back to us. But the question is: will the US allow this? Recommended by 39 Readers

56.

jag rao washington May 14th, 2011 9:00 am More than three decades of economic aid has resulted in very limited economic or social benefits. Why do you think it will be different in future? Recommended by 15 Readers

58.

Zakir Hussain Abu Dhabi May 14th, 2011 9:00 am There is no doubt that the presence of Osama in Pakistan was a big embarrassment both for the military, ISI and the people of Pakistan. Osama had declared war against Pakistan and thousands of Pakistani citizens have been killed and the attacks are still going on. ISI captured hundreds of Al Qaida operatives and handed them over to US. Even without the support of ISI and Pakistan army US would have never succeeded in killing Osama. In this scenario the US claim that elements in Pakistani military establishment are supporting Al Qaida & Talaban looks not more than a blame game. Al Qaeda and Talibans are following the same agenda ( attack US and its allies). It must be recalled that all these unwanted guests (Al Qaeda + Talaban) were brought to Pakistan by the Americans to fight against the USSR in 1980s. After the end of the war US left the region without disposing off its wastes. In this way they made Afghanistan their sanctuary. US awakened only when its own security was attacked. They attacked Afghanistan with massive force which resulted in the spill over of these former friends of Washington to rugged fragile administrative regions of Pakistan. Pakistan does not posses the power and technology as the NATO forces in Afghanistan. Therefore Al Qaeda and Talaban considered Pakistan soft target and inflicted huge lose on them. On the other hand US is following its agenda to eliminate anti American elements even at the expense of the integrity of Pakistan. They know very well that it is beyond the capacity of Pakistan to eliminate terrorism on its soil as 90% of the terror force is coming from Afghanistan. NATO could not succeed in Afghanistan despite it massive strength and expecting Pakistan to do the job alone while some terrorist groups in Pakistan enjoy the support of CIA and RAW. So for as the aid given by the US to Pakistan is concerned, it is far less as compared to the price Pakistan has been paying for being US ally. Pakistan can survive without that if it comes out of the so called war on terror led by US, and evolve strategy to coupe with the militant element in its soil. There is complete unity among the people of Pakistan that terrorists and militants must be eliminated from its soil and all foreigner entering the country illegally must be dealt with according to the law. All this not easy job, Pakistan has India on its Eastern border, Americans on its Western borders to exploit the situation. But once Pakistan pulls out of the American led war on terror, 50% of its threats will reduce as the people of Pakistan have become fed up with Friendship of United States. Recent surveys show that more than 80% of Pakistan do not trust US. Recommended by 8 Readers

67.

Austin Texas May 14th, 2011 1:22 pm In a very thankful way, the killing of bin Laden *in Pakistan* has gone a long way towards establishing clarity and honesty in the relationship.

We can now trust them to be duplicitous, so to speak. In kind, they now know that we know beyond any shadow of a doubt just who and what they are.

They are the peoples that had more concern over the failure of their military to interdict the Americans much more-so than the capture and killing of the world’s most infamous terrorist on their own soil. That’s a pretty clear set of intentions, and they are now set out in the open for all to see.

Clarity has arrived. It’s now incumbent upon us to stay the course, relationship-wise, until the Pakistanis learn that duplicity and harboring violent intentions toward us will not pay off in the long run.

We are not their enemy. We are and shall be their teacher. As necessary, the kind of teacher that isn’t adverse to a sharp rap across the knuckles with a hefty ruler whenever things get to be just completely unacceptable. Recommended by 1 Reader

93.

ElliottB Harvard MA May 14th, 2011 1:33 pm What scares me is that Pakistan has probably 100+ nuclear bombs. Where has Pakistan gotten the money to finance one of the larger nuclear arsenals in the world? From us. Recommended by 8 Readers

The World is my Oyster: Sid Harth

MUMBAI: The Mumbai police on Wednesday said the slain bodyguard of Dawood Ibrahim’s younger brother, Iqbal Kaskar, was the target of Tuesday’s attack outside Kaskar’s home on the city’s Pakmodia Street. But authorities did not rule out the possibility of a rival gang’s involvement to send a message to gangland’s first family.

A local court remanded the killers of Kaskar’s bodyguard-cum-driver Arif Abu Bakr Sayyed aka Bael in police custody till May 26. Bilal Mustafa Ali Sayyed (29) is from Mumbra and Indralal Bahadur Khatri (28) is from Nepal. Khatri shot Bael outside Mahajabeen building, where Kaskar lives, on Tuesday. Bael was reportedly alone then while Kaskar was inside the four-storey building, either on the first or fourth floor. The police are hunting for four more suspects.

A police officer said, “Kaskar was not (there). Only his driver was present at the spot,” said Rajkumar Vhatkar, deputy commissioner of police (operations).

Himanshu Roy, joint commissioner of police (crime), said, “We have identified the gang behind the shooting. Until we arrest the remaining accused it would not be proper to disclose the details as it will hamper the investigation.”

There is a possibility that the rival gang didn’t want to kill Kaskar. It’s likely they wanted to send a strong message that they could operate even in Dawood’s heartland, Pakmodia Street, said Roy.

Police sources suggested Kaskar and not his slain bodyguard could have been the target.

Maharashtra home minister R R Patil said, “Interrogation of suspects revealed their target was Kaskar’s driver.” Patil said there are no gangs in Mumbai. Police though were worried that Dawood’s lieutenant Chhota Shakeel would retaliate and revive gangland killings in the city. Shakeel, reportedly based in Karachi, used Voice Over Internet Protocol to ask close family members about Kaskar.

During interrogations the accused told police they planned to kill only Bael, said a source. They said they didn’t know about Kaskar until they were arrested.

Police said shooters could have killed Bael anywhere else, as he lives in Jogeshwari and travels daily to Pakmodia Street by train. “Why did they choose this place knowing it is Dawood’s backyard, overcrowded and hard to escape from,” said an officer.

Imported weapons were recovered from the accused. “Why would two small-time shooters use sophisticated weapons when they could have done the same with a country-made weapon. The cost of each imported weapon could be more than Rs 2.5 lakh, while a country-made gun costs Rs 5,000 to 10,000,” said an officer.

Two fully-loaded pistols were seized from Khatri, the more experienced marksman of the two.

Readers’ opinions (1)

Sid Harth Harth (USA) 0 min ago (06:35 AM)

“asslam aleikum Bhai S Ahmed Ali & Mateen Hafeez,” Not bad job. Could be better, if not the Pulitzer Prize material, Numero uno. If by your own news interpretation, most obvious in this piece, Maharashtra’s Home Minister, R R (Aaba) Patil says that there ain’t no terrorists, oops, Mafia trouble makers in Bombay, oops, “aamchi mumbai,” there ain’t. Moreover, you two ain’t got what my good Bhai, oops brother, Aaba has. A keen and supremely reliable intel. You merely collect the jetsam-flotsam of gutter gossip from Iqbal Kaskar’s hometown, oops, home street, Pakmodia Street. Iqbal wasn’t born yesterday. Neither was his big brother, Dawood Ibrahim (Kaskar) originally born and brought, oops,a native of Kallvan, District Nashik. I have at least two authentic boyhood friends of his to testify my claim. One is XXXX Attari and the other, XXX2 Attari. The third one not to be named because of his much closer boyhood association, perhaps reaching further than a boyhood stage, perhaps his next door neighbor, told me amazing stories about this much maligned Kaskar family. More later. Just don’t make a mistake again. Knowledge is supreme in life as well as journalism. Take my advise, go into Real Estate. the profession where secrets can be found more easily lying on the sidewalks. You don’t have to be a fortune teller. Your opinions laced with assumptions, presumptions, adoration, and street gossip stink. Learn Marathi, if you want to know about Dawood Kaskar. Fini.

Who today in India is making the most vociferous case to let the markets function and for the government to play facilitator rather than bully?

I’d argue it’s not any bureaucrat, policy wonk or columnist in Delhi, but a group of farmers protesting in nearby Uttar Pradesh against their government’s approach to land acquisition for the Yamuna Expressway project. The project, when completed, will create a six-lane, 165-kilometer freeway that will cut travel time from New Delhi to Agra to two hours from at least four. Last week, as protests flared, at least four people, including two policemen, died in the violence.

This is the next chapter in an ongoing saga, punctuated by the arrest of Rahul Gandhi, a Member of Parliament and office bearer of the Indian National Congress who last year had promised to be the farmers’ “soldier in Delhi”. Mr. Gandhi has been released on bail.

Last September, in the wake of violent protests over the same project, the Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Mayawati announced a new land acquisition policy which would raise the amount per square meter each farmer would receive, although crucially this would remain set by the government.

So what do the farmers want and does it make sense? And can their actions be construed as anti-development?

Unlike in some other disputes such as the Vedanta bauxite mining project in Orissa that the government rejected, the issue here is not principally about farmers or tribals not wanting to sell their land. The farmers’ objection is that the government’s approach of fixing the price grossly undervalues their land, which will presumably jump exponentially in value when converted from agricultural to commercial use.

What is more, according to news reports, the farmers, in particular the Federation of Indian Farmers Organizations, would prefer that the state stop acting as “property dealers and brokers” and allow the farmers to negotiate directly with the private sector developers.

Far from being anti-development, the U.P. farmers’ position makes good economic sense in at least two ways.

First, the farmers are right that it’s arbitrary and unfair for the government to stipulate a fixed price per hectare of land in advance of negotiations. In a normal market with many buyers and many sellers and a homogenous good, the price is determined where demand equals supply. But in this situation, the land only attains its full value after the sale is consummated and the property developed.

In a market-based land acquisition scenario, striking a deal is much closer to what economists call “bilateral bargaining,” where two parties are haggling and the final terms reflect each side’s relative bargaining power. But in the U.P. case, for the government or anyone else to set a fixed price in advance of negotiations between the two principal parties short circuits this normal bargaining process and prevents the market from functioning. Hence the farmers’ dissatisfaction.

In this light, the farmers’ agitation can be understood not as obstructing a development project but, by ratcheting up the pressure, turning the bargain in their favor. Even claiming that they would refuse to sell their land at any price, as a few farmers have said, is a great bargaining strategy. It’s no different from a labor union threatening to go on strike to get a better wage from an employer.

Second, those farmers who favor direct negotiation with developers as the most efficient way of reaching a deal also have sound economics on their side. This approach would cut out the middleman, in this case the state government. Under the current U.P. program, the government pays a low price to the farmers, charges a high price to the developers, and thereby extracts most of the gravy, to say nothing of creating opportunities for corruption.

The farmers’ belief in their own savvy as negotiators would seem to belie the commonly heard argument that the government needs to be involved to prevent them from being exploited or intimidated by large private-sector players. Rather, the current system, led by the government, seems to be fleecing the farmers.

The current system would also seem to work more in favor of the developers than the farmers because it’s simpler to deal with one actor, the government, than negotiate individually with small groups. In economic terms, it solves the coordination problem of one buyer having to negotiate individually with many sellers but does so by transferring most of the gains to the government at the expense of both parties. The developers, too, should therefore prefer negotiating directly with a group of farmers.

Here’s the dilemma. If the government stays out, it’s possible that small sellers will fail to coordinate in negotiating with the large buyer, which may result in the deal falling through or of the small seller getting ripped off. But if the government acts as broker and uses its coercive power to force a deal, farmers also could get the short end of the stick.

In practice, there will be ongoing and messy three-way negotiations, with the government involved whether anyone likes it or not. Some politicians will find it expedient to side with the farmers, who in turn have an interest in publicizing their cause. The issue has already become highly politicized, with so far more heat than light, and little of concrete benefit for the farmers.

The ideal solution would therefore involve the government acting purely as facilitator and coordinator between buyers and sellers, rather than its current role as rent extractor and price-setter. A suitably crafted land acquisition bill, or an interim ordinance, could achieve this, and ensure that the bulk of the gains accrue to the buyers and sellers, not the government. Transparent rules of the game are key as they create trust among all parties that the final outcome is fair. We need to end the License Raj in land acquisition.

The bottom line is that there’s nothing irrational about what the farmers in U.P. are doing and no inherent challenge to India’s development model. Our desire to have a fast route from Delhi to Agra has to be weighed against appropriate compensation for the farmers who’re going to lose their land and livelihood.

It’s not a question of growth versus equity, but growth with equity. Our farmers seem to understand that better than our politicians and policy wonks. They just want a piece of the action, like we all do.

My dear Rupa Subramanya Dehejia, I love you Stop My “Little Old Lady,” has put Hex on me Stop According to her Law Stop No woman live or dead Stop can be named after the end of my sentence, “I love,” Stop That is not mine Stop Namely my wife Stop Just kidding. You are a Spring chicken, oops, a Spring of fresh, undiluted water, oops clear as a mountain spring water. I am allowed to say that according to my “LOL’s LAW.” Kidding aside, not if WSJ Community permits so. I am serious. Advocacy has become a new, oops, freshly new Buzz-Word in India. Supreme Court is lauded, as well as eulogized from the Country Capitol, oops, Capital, to the back yard Hooch vendor’s “adda,” Hindi for shop. Although, the Right Wing Fundamentalists Hindu outfits, too many to name here, have used whips to ward off advocacy in the past. These advocates, oops, advocacy individuals were called names. For instance, “Commies.” Arundhati Roy et al were taken to court for assassinating their private and patented “Hindu,” religion.” It is all water under the bridge. The same outfits are getting into fits. Usually their kind get into fisticuffs. Farmers’ demands, be it for a fair compensations of their farm lands, their rehabilitation, oops, guaranteed rehabilitation or their bank loans being forgiven, are real and need to be addressed at the highest levels. Just two short years ago Maharashtra faced almost a deluge of farmers’ suicides on account of banks foreclosing on their mortgages. Sonia Gandhi had to interfere to staunch that mass bleeding of the village farming community. One homely poor farmer’s wife, Kalavati, became an instant celebrity, with a little help from Rahul Gandhi. Times are tough for growing India. Growing like a dandelion weed. Every which way you look, you see smoke stacks belching chimneys producing, not corn, not wheat, not rice. not bajra or lentils. The essential ingredients of Indians. Flying ash dumps are not heaps anymore. They are mountains. Pollutions in such areas is so big and so ugly that young fillies wear Muslim terrorists’ “rumal,” Hindi for a scarf, covering their beautiful faces all except their sun goggles covered eyes. Howzzat for the beginning salvo? Have a nice day.

…and I am Sid Harth

http://cogitoergosumworld.com/

10:34 pm May 17, 2011 SAMAR TYAGI wrote:

you know the actual problem is not the intermediary of the govt. but the real cause lies in the fundamental. suppose a farmer who has 2 hectares of land is sold to govt. at much lower prices than the market ones.he is going to be poorer day by day. as he would not have any other continuous source of income. in reality land is not taken but he is forcibly driven from his living. he is compelled to change his econimic wher he has no expertise.

11:30 am May 17, 2011 Anirban wrote:

Nice article….it should be growth with equity and not growth vs equity. 11:03 pm May 16, 2011 Siddhartha Gupta wrote:

If government doesn’t “coordinate” will it be possible to convince all the small landowners? Ultimately some of them will be coerced. 9:45 pm May 16, 2011 Chacko George wrote:

Nice article. Reminds me of The Greater Common Good by A Roy. But the best part is this article doesnt take any side. Hard fact is that somebody is paying for the development that we take for granted. 11:48 am May 16, 2011 Mahboob wrote:

Can we have some data please?

I saw a report in a TV channel where they said that the farmers sold the land to the government at Rs 45 lakh per acre, and when the government sold it at Rs 90 lakh per acre, they got wild.

If this is true, then the state exchequer gained. The farmers already got a fair value at *that* point in time when they sold. To take the streets to show to be on the side of farmers is politically correct and an election gimmick.

– Mahboob @mahboob_h

10:47 am May 16, 2011 Keith Wroblewski MD wrote:

Thanks for your insightful comments. In my home state of Pensylvania,USA, the government typically fixes the price for the homes or land and while it may not be fair initially, the Kantian utilitarian argument of the expressway’s good for the economic good of that sector probably supercedes the good for the isolated few farmer’s. The real question is what efforts the Inidian government will make to help those farmer’s reacquire land in another region and at what cost to those farmers.

He added that Modi was informed about the threat to former Congress MP Ahsan Jafri’s life but did nothing to save him.

Justice G T Nanavati questioned Bhatt on Monday about why it took him nine years to speak out and what had provoked him to collect phone call records of Godhra town of February 26-27, 2002. Bhatt told the commission that his oath of secrecy forbade him to reveal anything unless asked by a competent authority under law.

The former intelligence officer suggested the commission call for an internal documentation by him titled, ‘Godhra incident 2002: An intelligence analysis’ along with other papers to answer questions on why he collected the phone call records. He said his affidavit pending before the Supreme Court prevented him from elaborating on this.

In his cross-examination by rights group Jan Sangharsh Manch lawyer Mukul Sinha, Bhatt said Modi called a high-level meeting of IAS and IPS officers at his residence after the killing of kar sevaks at Godhra on February 27, 2002. Bhatt said he went to Modi’s meeting with then DGP K Chakravarthi where the CM said the situation warranted that Muslims be taught a lesson and that Hindus be allowed to vent their anger.

On February 28, 2002, Modi had two meetings and Bhatt told the CM at the second one about the threat to Ahsan Jafri’s life when a violent mob surrounded Gulbarg Society, but Modi did nothing about it. Jafri was one of the 69 people killed in Gulbarg Society. Bhatt’s affidavit before the Supreme Court is the first direct evidence on what Modi said at the February 27, 2002 meeting, but the apex court is yet to take it on record.

Bhatt was then a deputy commissioner of intelligence and said he attended the meeting on Chakravarthi’s instructions because his boss, the then state intelligence chief G C Raiger, was on leave. Chakravarthi later denied Bhatt attended the meeting. However, Bhatt recounted details like how Chakravarthi and Pande tried to tell Modi that the BJP’s support to VHP’s bandh call on February 28, 2002 would look like the state government supporting it and how they vehemently opposed plans to bring Godhra victims’ bodies to Ahmedabad.

‘Modi did nothing to save Jafri’

Comments (6)

Recommended (2)

My, my! TOI is outsourcing their job of moderation. Must be to some New Delhi or Nagpur outfit. Could that be Mohan Bhagwat, oops, Nitin Gadkari? I am sure that is why my comment disappered. OOps, Toi is alive and kicking some Brahmi-Bania ass.

Sid Harth Harth (USA) 2 mins ago (12:53 PM)

Gujarat IPS officer Sanjiv Bhatt has become the conscience of Gujarati culture. Known for their Bania part of RSS’ Brahmin-Bania cartel. Formerly, a secret Brahmin (only) society, founded by K B Hedgevar, a former volunteer in the then Mahatma Gandhi, oops, Bania Mahatma Gandhi led Congress, in 1925. Hedgevar was angry, for sure. Perhaps, not angry at Matatma Gandhi usurping the power but surely Gandhi’s flirting with Muslims. That is a definite Know, oops, No, No to Brahmin controlled Hindu society. Even in Mughal empire, Brahmins were left alone by their Kaji, magistrate. Mughals accepted the importance of Brahmins and did not mess with them. Hindus also believe in Brahmin supremacy. It is said that Brahmins, commit no crime. The harshest punishment given to Brahmins could be as mild as shaving guilty Brahmin’s head, oops half of his head and half of his moustaches. Merely a token but humiliating slap on the wrist. That was no punishment at all. Most Brahmins, at that time used to shave their heads with a little tuft of hair remaining at the back. That tuft identified Brahmin from all others. When two brothers, Chapekar by name, were hung by, the then, District Collector, Jackson in Nashik, a Brahmin town, V D Savarkar’s Brahmin secret Society. “Abhinav Barat” member Kanhere shot him dead in Vijayanand theater using Savarkar’s pistol. For this crime British sentenced Savarkar a lifetime in Andaman. Terrorism is part of Brahmins, if not Banias. Fini. …and I am Sid Harth

VIKAS GHATE (SURAT) 1 hr ago (11:08 AM)

There are many such type of actions and movements by such people when someone wants to do good work. Gujarat is peaceful state and on path of Growth and prosperity. Other states are also following Gujarat Model. I feel such type of movements to destabilise any govenment should be discouraged by Media , Common man and Judiciary. Agree (4)Disagree (3)Recommend (4)

Open ID (Delhi) replies to VIKAS GHATE 37 mins ago (12:11 PM)

Dear Vikas, Growth and development is fine. But we cannot allow a murderer of innocent lives to hide behind this so called activities of growth. It is like a criminal coming into politics and then doing lot of good work to save himself from his past acts. Our society should not allow such things. It will send a wrong precedent to the entire world. Mr Modi was in full control of the administration at the time of riots. Had he wanted, he could have saved so many lives. But he chose to not only remain silent but also actively support the rioters. The biggest evidence of Modi’s involvement in riots is that the riots continued for 3 days. Had is continued for some hours, it was understandable. If you are unbiased and unpolarized, it will not take a huge amount of common sense to come to the conclusion that the gujarat riots were state sponsored. This is unpardonable in any human society. Why do u think people hate Hitler, Saddam. They were all murderers of innocent humans while they were in power. I am sure, Modi will also meet the same fate as other murderers in history have met. If he escapes Indian Judicial System, nature will not forgive him and take its own course. Why cant our Judicial system deal with such people and bring justice immediately. Take the example of Kahn in US. He was handcuffed like a petty criminal even though he is head of IMF. Whereas, Mr Modi is still at large going gaga over his developmntal work. R we a civilized society ? I wonder!!! Agree (2)Disagree (2)

vikas replies to Open ID 27 mins ago (12:21 PM)

When you are posting comments you should not be afraid of writing your name i expect you to write name. Gujarat is on the path of Growth and we dont want to go in past and dig out heart burns because we know communial voilence gives equal pains to both community. so please dont look back and please participate in nation building along with all others. Keep faith and respect law of land. Agree (1)Disagree (3)

Open ID replies to vikas 2 mins ago (12:46 PM)

Vikas, You dont want to go in past because you dont want to see Modi being punished of his henious crimes. What has this comment to do with my name….Please take a survey that almost 90% of commentators have an alternate id to be used in public….Why are u getting into such frivilous matters…..Dont you have a better argument? I suggest that you kindly introspect and try to find an answer as to why do u support a criminal like Modi! Just because your and Modi’s religion are same ? If that is the answer, there is no point in debating further. We are debating on the issue of humanity. I condemn the killing of karsevaks in no uncertain terms. But only those persons should be punished. Other innocent muslims should not be. And what was the logic in raping the innocent women on the streets of gujarat ? Any answer to that ? You might not have bcoz u r not a victim nor do you have any sympathy for such victims. Probably, that is because you are filled with hatred for muslims. And where there is hatred, there is no humanity. If u were a victim of this atrocities or if you had any sympathy to the plight of these victims, you might have a different view!

Andaman (India) 1 hr ago (10:53 AM)

Nothing happens to Hindus in India. The judiciary is biased. In case of doubts, please check the history. Agree (2)Disagree (6)Recommend (2)

vikas (surat) replies to Andaman 1 hr ago (11:15 AM)

I disagree with what you said now judiciary is punishing whoever is wrong. Please dont bring community specific issues because now people are awaken and they want growth and prosperity rather than involving themselves in such unecessary issues. Agree (3)

NEW DELHI: Congress on Friday attacked Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi for orchestrating the 2002 Godhra riots and the submission of police officer Sanjiv Bhatt in his affidavit in the Supreme Court was a well-known fact for the last nine years.

AICC spokesman Manish Tiwari told reporters, “It is an open fact that what happened in Gujarat in 2002 were not riots but state-sponsored massacre of minorities. It was slaughter of humanity. If IPS Bhatt has said so, then we expect the Supreme Court would look into it.”

Congress did not demand Modi’s resignation because Tiwari said it was pointless to expect morality from BJP. “If it wanted, it would have asked Modi to step down as chief minister in the June 2002 party executive in Goa,” he said.

The party further slammed BJP’s charge that Congress was behind the police officer’s affidavit. “BJP thinks it can speak a lie hundred times and turn it into truth. If it had any morality, it would have sacked Modi in 2002 and submitted him to the court of law. It is the shamelessness of the lead Opposition party that it is backing a chief minister who ordered a massacre in his state,” Tiwari said.

At the same time, Congress took potshots at non-political sections of society which have praised Narendra Modi’s regime in Gujarat. The remark seemed targeted as much at Anna Hazare, who recently came under fire for lauding Modi government’s work on rural development, as at Amitabh Bachchan, who became state’s brand ambassador attracting hostility from the ruling party.

Tiwari said, “There are many social workers, actors and industrialists who have praised Modi over the years. They should seriously study the affidavit and introspect on what they would want to say to the families of the riot victims.”

Congress slams Narendra Modi

Comments (21)

Recommended (8)

Vipul Patel (USA) 28 Apr, 2011 01:31 AM

I have heard Manish Tiwari on You Tube. He does not make sense, He is one track mind and full of lies. It appears that he is a mouthpiece for Sonia and rahul. Probably he is getting paid by congress for all his statements. Otherwise how any one can talk so stupid? Agree (1)Recommend (1)

LetsLol (USA) replies to Vipul Patel 01 May, 2011 03:00 PM

Vipul you are the Mouthpiece of a murderer who uses his governance Bhiksha of votes to use the Law enforcement to perform cold blooded murders of thousands. Modi will be freed by the courts of this world but I want o say Oh Modi remember “SHARON” he is still not dead.

LetsLol (USA) 24 Apr, 2011 02:35 PM

“State-sponsored massacre of minorities” Is this appropriate to say? Answer it is not inappropriate either.Why? What is the oath a CM, PM take? “safeguard”. Modi did not do anything in the riots? No but Yes who was governing then? Modi. What was he doing? As a prelude to the rioting he induced laxity on the part of Law enforcement towards everything that is going to happen for a few days. Modi is ruling today? Yes so what is his role? His role is to deny what was done thinking we are naive just passed out of school and try to turn our heads towards some development which he thinks he did. LOL. We Gujjus are enterprising we did not need Modi to prove that he made us enterprising. Go to any part of the world we have proved ourselves as enterprising. Some development this man is talking and some denial this man is making about no involvement in the massacre. I think the train was a sequence of his plot as an opening scene to what was to follow. Remember we are talking about a hungry no no power hungry Politician. Modi if you are a man step down fight the charges don’t interfere with evidence then we will see what you developed if you did. Agree (1)Disagree (1)

durga (baroda) 23 Apr, 2011 11:26 PM

HOW COME THE CONGRESS IS FORGETING THAT IT HAD KILLED THOUSANDS OF SIKHS IN THE 1984 RIOTS? IF ONE FINGER IS POINTING AT BJP, THREE FINGERS ARE POINTING AT CONGRESS.

MOUTHPIECE (puri odisha) 23 Apr, 2011 09:49 PM

they so-called gandhibadis have killed hundred and thousand of innocent people in india. they are killing an innocent MM not like killing 5k innocent MMs during 84 delhi riot. shameless talk by Manish. Agree (4)Disagree (2)Recommend (3)

LetsLol (USA) replies to MOUTHPIECE 24 Apr, 2011 02:50 PM

Is this a reply or justification to what Modi did? What Congress did was what Modi did. Congress did it with Sikhs because Indira Gandhi was assassinated what Modi did was based on??? I will answer he was thinking of ethnic cleansing as BJP is racist party and lots of infighting all of them want to be PM. Their wives complain that all of them drool when they hear the word “PM” and their pillows get wet. What congress did or what Modi did is the same.Modi started the riots he had an action plan so that he can be considered a godman of the majority. We Gujaratis see that this was eyewash to keep the gaddi. Now the Cm seat is getting hard and haemorrhoid are troubling so he is looking for the softer PM’s seat to remove all charges and everyone should say what a Statesman? Development in Gujarat even Naidu of TDP did a great job. Bangalore also has something to show off? Bombay has so much to show as development? He has a publicity done by some paid stooges about his so called development of something which already existed. Even the poorest of the poor state gets a few MNCs, a few manufacturing plants will look developed so do we attribute that to a ruler? No it is the economy turn in our country which started with BPO’s. As a matter of fact our state was last in the race. Hyderabad, Bombay, Bangalore, Delhi when they where developing we where brandished as a state of communal clashes with vibrant racist leader called MO(O)DI Agree (2)

SHAKTI (MILWAUKEE, USA) replies to LetsLol 01 May, 2011 10:08 AM

There was a massacre of 3,000 Bangladeshi Muslims in the village of Nelli, Nowgong District of Assam, in Feb. 1983 when the Congress was in power! To date, no one has been found guilty, or indicted. The English media always keeps mum on religious massacres when the Congress is involved.

LetsLol replies to SHAKTI 01 May, 2011 02:55 PM

So Sikhs in 1984, Bangla Deshis in Neilli so Modi said I should not be left behind Muslims in Godhra one more to go Modi to be equated with Congress Agree (1)

MOUTHPIECE (puri) 23 Apr, 2011 09:20 PM

mr manish, did you forget that you people had killed thousands of MMs in 84-delhi. probably u were not in politcs then. study your histroy and look self on the mirror before u say. Agree (5)Recommend (3)

Yogesh (Bhilai) 23 Apr, 2011 08:05 PM

Congress talking of morality. LOL! It’s a big joke! Congress is using inflation, price rise, unemployement and corruption to kill common men daily and slowly

Ali Bangladeshi (Bangladesh) 23 Apr, 2011 04:16 PM

People in the neighboring countries suspected/ knew the 2002 Indian genocide as Gujarat STATE SPONSORED GENOCIDE for ethnic cleansing of Muslims. Brutal Pagans of India still living in Shit. Grow up India, just look at the religious harmony in Bangladesh. Agree (1)Disagree (6)Recommend (1)

Roshan (Mum) replies to Ali Bangladeshi 24 Apr, 2011 05:02 PM

You call these Muslims Innocent????? Shame on you people…… !! To become a Muslim one must kill at least one none Muslims. One can’t be a Muslim without being a killer(JIHADI). Muhammad also was. What Indians did in Gujrat was just a retaliatory measure against those who killed innocent Indians in Godhra train carnage and I appreciate that. It was a long due lesson for the enemies of our nation. There are 200 million more traitors Mr. Modi…… Please pay attention to that. Roshan Agree (1)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)

Well said Manish Tewari….the senile social worker or the jaded actor are no longer faces of the saner Indian populace…it’s a pity any & every woe of theirs is blamed on the Congress Party or its leaders. The indutrial growth in Gujarat is actually a drain on the government in control…debt by paying 18% or more which is not peanuts but could contribute to sustainable growth preached by the senile Gandhian. Way to go…Manish. Agree (2)Disagree (3)Recommend (1)

Ravi (USA) 23 Apr, 2011 04:38 AM

Mr. Tiwari—You say BJP has no morality. Do you honestly believe that Congress has ? You are referring to the affidavit by a police officer in the Modi case. Again tell me honestly what is the credibility of police officers in India, most of whom buy their jobs. I am neither supporter of BJP nor Modi but feel ashamed that leaders in my country spend most of their energy in slinging mud on political opponents instead of creative work for the nation. If you look at news items, this is what you all are busy with. When do you work for what you are elected. I would not say–God save India. Days are not far that people of India will throw the corrupt parties from power. Jay Hindustan. Jay Bharat. Agree (9)Disagree (4)Recommend (6)

vilas ravat (kollhapur) 23 Apr, 2011 02:39 AM

What the great congress has done on sikh riots 1983 in delhi Agree (11)Disagree (4)Recommend (4)

sg (delhi) replies to vilas ravat 23 Apr, 2011 02:45 PM

The same they did in 47 riots Agree (2)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)

Satv (Delhi 58) replies to vilas ravat 23 Apr, 2011 07:21 AM

84 riots were not done by congress it was a revenge by the emotionally hurt people.Those people were experience brutal killing of their own mother.You can also use emotional support behind Gujrat but then Modi could be seen engineering the plot instead of providing protection to the public while he is a CM.You may pull in Sajjan and Bhagat but source in 84 were limited to pass on into entire metropolitan scale in seconds everywhere in the same time that’s why they may have survived from the court action. Agree (4)Disagree (1)Recommend (2)

Srikanta Dash (Puri) replies to vilas ravat 23 Apr, 2011 03:04 AM

Now kongress has no missile to counter act the 2G,CWG, Lokpal except the Anti-Modi missile. Agree (8)Disagree (3)Recommend (3)

AHMEDABAD: The affidavit filed by Sanjiv Bhatt exposes how the supreme court appointed special investigation team was not only leaking information to the government but was also intimidating witnesses.

He says that after he gave preliminary evidence to the SIT in November 2009, a top Gujarat government official had tried to brief him before he was record his formal testimony, in March this year. Bhatt gave original floppy discs containing cell phone records of Godhra town for February 26 and 27, 2002, as well as the original print-outs of call records of certain high-ranking functionaries of the state for February 27-28.

Bhatt who was privy to many goings-on that year as intelligence officer, has said in his affidavit to the SC that the SIT appointed to probe the larger conspiracy in the Gujarat riots, was not doing a fair job.

He says that the SIT contacted him first in November 2009 asking him to meet its DIG AK Malhotra on a particular date. “In the meantime, despite my having maintained complete confidentiality regarding the telephonic summons received from SIT, I was approached by a very high level functionary in the government of Gujarat and was sought to be appropriately briefed prior to my scheduled interaction with SIT”, says Bhatt’s affidavit, a copy of which is with TOI.

When Bhatt gave names of witnesses who could substantiate the fact that he attended the February 27 meeting, the SIT chose to intimidate certain witnesses and coerce them from revealing facts

“My apprehensions were substantiated when one of the witnesses I had named, Shri K.D. Panth, (Assistant Intelligence Officer with the State Intelligence Bureau in 2002) informed me that he had been called before the SIT 5.4.2011 and was virtually treated like an accused and was threatened with arrest and other dire consequences”, says Bhatt.

On March 18, he wrote to chairman RK Raghavan to dissociate all employees of Gujarat government in the SIT, from the job of handling his evidence. He also said that he was ready to record his statement under section 164 of CrPC.

Bhatt says that his fears were confirmed when the contents of his signed deposition and the details of his interaction with Malhotra and Paramveer Singh, who later quit the SIT, were available to the highest echelons of the government of Gujarat. “As a result and consequence of the said breach of confidentiality, I was visited and continue to be visited with unpleasant consequences”.

Bhatt fears for his life : Gujarat cadre IPS officer Sanjiv Bhatt has written in his affidavit that in view of his fears, he wanted protection for his family and himself. “I requested the government of Gujarat to provide me and my family members with adequate and fool-proof security cover. Unfortunately, the government of Gujarat has chosen not only to disregard my repeated requests, but has time and again, sought to jeopardize my security by withdrawing even the existing make-shift and minimal security arrangement, worked out from within the meagre resources at my disposal”, he says in the affidavit before SC.

SIT threatened witnesses, ignored evidence: Bhatt

Comments (39)

Recommended (20)

amar (kamptee) 23 Apr, 2011 07:21 PM

Nothing is an offence which is done by a person who, at the time of doing it, is, by reason of intoxication, incapable of knowing the nature of the act, or that he is doing what is either wrong, or contrary to law: provided that the thing which intoxicated him was administered to him without his knowledge or against his will. OR In cases where an act done is not an offence unless done with a particular knowledge or intent, a person who does the act in a state of intoxication shall be liable to be dealt with as if he had the same knowledge as he would have had if he had not been intoxicated, unless the thing which intoxicated him was administered to him without his knowledge or against his will

Mohan (Bina) 23 Apr, 2011 06:47 PM

Modi might have brought about a lot of deveopment and prosperity to Gujrat,but that does not absolve him of his deliberate inaction in not saving the lives of thousands of innocents killed in 2002 riots. As head of Govt it was his primary responsibilty to safeguard lives of each and every person in the state. It was much discussed in Media in 2002.Even then PM had to remind Modi of his Raj Dharma.

Kill people and say sorry that is Britishers. In India kill people and not even say sorry, forget it and Do not remind that happened. Destroy all evidence so that the trace of it should not remain even the people who are witness to the crime against humanity…

Ananda Murti (Visakhapatnam) 23 Apr, 2011 03:29 PM

1).Why did this officer, proclaiming himself to be honest, remain silent all these nine years when he knew about events he thought illegal? 2). if he is so conscientious an officer, why did he not oppose his boss’s instructions then and there and alert the government of India and the Supreme Court then? 3). Why did he not depose what he knew before a number of investigating agencies? If he has no Ã¢â‚¬ËœfaithÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ in the SIT, why did he not say it then? If he has no faith in the Supreme Court appointed agency, why should the Supreme Court believe his belated affidavit.? 4). If he were an honest officer, as he is trying to pose now, what effort had he made individually, to save the so called riot victims? Most certainly, the chief minister or anybody else might not have physically obstructed him from saving the ‘victims!’ 5). He should come out candidly, what has inspired him suddenly to take the role of an accuser after nine years? Has the Congress party won him over for a consideration? If he cannot answer these questions satisfactorily, he should forthwith retract his lies immediately and feel penitent for the grave injustice he has done to the people of Gujarat and their Chief Minister. Agree (9)Disagree (2)Recommend (1)

M.V.BHASKAR (TAMIL NADU) 23 Apr, 2011 11:38 AM

This is a first cla ss motivated thing by the Congress. The Congress govt at the Centre has been blamed daily by the Supreme Court, in almost all the steps taking by the Congress govt. So Congress wants to divert the attention of the public. Now there is no other issue to be talked, till the next session of Parliament starts. So the UPA is a big producer of a film, and the Screen play – Digvijay singh, Story- Kapil sibal, Dialogues, Directions- Sonia Gandhi & Manmohan singh, Agree (12)Disagree (9)Recommend (3)

sr sankaran (paris) replies to M.V.BHASKAR 23 Apr, 2011 06:19 PM

It is the latest ploy by the congress to paint black the popular and successful CM of Gujarat. Maybe Bhatt is looking to enter politics thru the congress which will be delighted to have one more joker to supplement Sibals, Digs, Tiwaris and Singhvis. All this is to divert public attention from several scams in which top notch leaders of congress party have been allegedly benefitted; afterall the jokers are assigned to protect and save its leader at the cost of the country.

Anu (Kochi) 23 Apr, 2011 09:38 AM

Impotent India. If you want independent enquiry then call some international agency. Its not possible to get justice in India. Agree (22)Disagree (5)Recommend (5)

We Indians seem to create Gods to overcome our own irrational inhabitions. Politically – for example – Failed attempts on Indira Gandhi, albeit succesful attempt on Ambedkar – now recently the POster boy of Gujarat. Are we saying that goernemnt sponsered killing of our own citizens is Ok?- If a patriotic popular developer God is involved? Will Gujaratis be proud to state openly they developed Gujarat by acts of ethenic cleaning and by subverting Indian constitution by every means possible? Why support a set of fundamentalist murderers – for quick personal development- if you can not openly state the same proudly? Agree (16)Disagree (10)Recommend (3)

MRK (Dubai) replies to ASA 23 Apr, 2011 10:33 AM

Dear ASA, The development is the coverup (indirect corruption)to avoid support for legal proceedings to the wrong doing. This type of corruption to the entire state needs to be understood by the Indian citizen/ government & Mr. Anna Hazare to include in the Lokpal bill.

Nasthik (Delhi) replies to ASA 23 Apr, 2011 09:46 AM

Very good analysis ASA.We need people like you to take our country from Corruption, Nepotism, Communalism. If we can isolate communal elements no matter to which they belong, we can build bridges between different communities. Agree (6)Disagree (3)

ASA replies to Nasthik 25 Apr, 2011 03:56 PM

In words, truth can not contain any little amount of lie. The difference between truth and peace is Human History. If we allow ourselves to be distracted by untrue interpretations a little, the perpetutors have us in their command- our ego will not let us own our shortcomings easily.

doc 73 (Ludhiana) 23 Apr, 2011 06:50 AM

If u really want the true story to emerge in any scam/inquiry in INDIA today, the only way is to give it to and independent international investigative agency like FBI etc with full powers. The moral and character of most of us Indians has fallen to unseen lows Agree (21)Disagree (2)Recommend (8)

Prof S N Bengeri (N J USA) 23 Apr, 2011 03:50 AM

Stop the faecical Investigation. Is this very very Important Issue which will solve “Roti kapada naukari & makan”?How long u would like to dig the Graves of the unfortunate victims of Train Carnage? Why not talk about the victims of Train Carnage? Were they not Human Beingsto desereve H R ‘s attention? Why not 1984 Riots are debated? Agree (11)Disagree (12)Recommend (6)

It seems that you don’t that the people responsible for Godhra has been punished while people for Riots are roaming free and ruling the governments. Its time that they get justice too. Agree (12)Disagree (4)Recommend (5)

tikam nariani (mumbai) 23 Apr, 2011 03:48 AM

what mr sajeev bhatt was doing till today since 2002, so that now he is disclosing. even though our supreme court will definitely give his chance but ultimately at the end of day he himself will not be able to prove because all these things has been originated to defame the ASMITA OF GUJARAT Agree (7)Disagree (11)Recommend (4)

MADDYWALA (SURAT) 23 Apr, 2011 03:07 AM

-SIT Chairman Raghavan notes: The inquiry clearly established that a meeting was in fact held at the chief ministers residence on the night of 27.02.02 after the chief ministers return to Ahmedabad following his visit to Godhra earlier in the day. (Page 3 of chairmans comments) -According to SIT report before Supreme Court the meeting lasted for about half an hour. There were eight confirmed participants: -SIT has concluded on page 149 of his report, Ã¢â‚¬Å“Since Bhatts presence at the meeting is not proved his statement has to be ignored. -The SIT has stated that, Ã¢â‚¬Å“Bhatt is considered an unreliable witness, especially because no official, who is known to have definitely attended the meeting has spoken of his presence there. Also he was considered too junior to have been invited to such a high-level meeting. Agree (6)Disagree (10)Recommend (3)

i suggest all non gujaratis not to comment without knowing facts. even Vstanavi , Anna & others praised Gujarat Devlopment Model. SC will decide what to do with Modi but being a gujarati i know what our CM is doing for us. this is 2011 , i request all to move forward. forget past and let us join hands to take India Forward. Agree (19)Disagree (21)Recommend (5)

All of us know the Gujarati business man are the one who control about 90% of blackmoney and they are the practioners of it. BJP election source of income is coming from Gujarat…So no moral values and they can kill anyone for survival Agree (6)Disagree (5)Recommend (3)

ibr (Toronto) replies to Gaurav 23 Apr, 2011 03:06 AM

Sure, how many of your loved ones were killed in riots? Ask those who lost their loved ones, if they want to forget it. What about justice to them? You can’t hide the fact behind development that the butcher was primarily responsible for the carnage. Agree (23)Disagree (15)Recommend (9)

Mekhala (Moscow) replies to ibr 23 Apr, 2011 07:46 AM

Why not govt. showing same zeal for 1984 riots where 3000 people were killed???? Agree (8)Disagree (2)Recommend (3)

Nikhit (India) replies to ibr 23 Apr, 2011 03:36 AM

and what bout the sabmarati express??dont forget that…a flame is needed for a fire to burn..and what bout the thousands being killed by jihadi terrorists? and the kashmiri pandits being targeted by muslim radicals? Agree (16)Disagree (13)Recommend (3)

gurbhajan singh (Delhi) replies to Mekhala 23 Apr, 2011 10:12 AM

Because Ninety nine percent of those Butchered by Congress goons were dalit Sikhs.Silence of congress and upper caste Akalis is the proof of this. Agree (3)Disagree (2)Recommend (1)

ibr (toronto) replies to Nikhit 23 Apr, 2011 07:39 AM

What for Sabarmati express? Didn’t 11 got death penalty for that? Now let me ask you – how many got death penalty for killing 2000 ? It is about justice – not one sided but equally applied. If you want to know the other side of the Sabarmati Express – just visit tehelka.com and search for it. Agree (4)Disagree (4)Recommend (2)

Good Indian (India) replies to Nikhit 23 Apr, 2011 07:31 AM

Hi Nikhit, I dont think any civil person will support what happened to Sabarmati Express. But whoever were responsible for that act should be punished and its again the job of the govt in power to do that. Instead of finding the culprit for that act allowing riots to go on where other innocents are killed can not be justfied in any way in a civilised society Agree (4)Disagree (2)Recommend (1)

Is this one justice for unjustice in some other place, by fulfilling just with others,The Creator is watching all they do The Punishment is very near not far for the opressor

maverick (delhi) replies to Nikhit 23 Apr, 2011 04:11 AM

is this ur defence for modi? Agree (9)Disagree (3)Recommend (1)

Ash (USA) replies to Nikhit 23 Apr, 2011 04:05 AM

Totally agree with Nikhit, then why dont you go find them and punish them not the innocents in the name of religion, if some one does that to you and your family will you justify the same way, offcurse not Agree (8)Disagree (4)

Ashwini (UK) 23 Apr, 2011 02:40 AM

This is why we need lokpal independent of politicians. Neither BJP did anything to Sonia on bofors nor congress will do anything to modi. And we will keep reading articles like this … Agree (21)Disagree (1)Recommend (7)

gompiepie (new york) 23 Apr, 2011 02:02 AM

Given the total police failure in controlling the post-Godhra mob, it will be interesting to know if SIT had uncovered something on Bhatt’s role in this fiasco. Agree (17)Disagree (2)Recommend (5)

free_verse (delhi) 23 Apr, 2011 01:56 AM

The SIT (1) got convictions for Godhra train carnage and (2) submitted a report exonerating Modi for riots (a report which mysteriously got leaked and landed in hands of Tehelka) – - – - This entire episode concerning IPS Sanjiv Bhatt is a DELIBERATE EXERCISE in DISCREDITING THE SIT because (1) the appeal from the Godhra death penalties will be heard soon and (2) the SC was set to hear the SIT on 24th April. Agree (18)Disagree (7)Recommend (6)

edris (dallas) 23 Apr, 2011 01:52 AM

Why are there no comments from BJP followers and media baised readers.where are so hyped personalities who till today calls Modi as a able CM ,how long media and others vested people around him cover up for his misdoing,why cant he openly come out and admitt his mistakes.If this are criteria for able CM,all the CM of India should follow him. Agree (2)Disagree (4)Recommend (2)

Vivek Burse (Mumbai) replies to edris 23 Apr, 2011 04:54 PM

Mr. Modi is not coming because he knows that Media who supports congress a lot will not publish what he will say, so better to keep silence and come with proofs to make these allegation false….. and by the way why this IPS officer keep silence for this much period and suddenly broke silence? I think big negotiation must be going on in between him and Congress to speak against Congress and divert attention of Public from Corruption and Lokapal like big issues…. Agree (1)Disagree (1)

jahir (kuwait) replies to Vivek Burse 24 Apr, 2011 10:35 AM

what kind of non-sense blindness in your following of modi’s principles? If you read the report properly, with proper sense, Police officer says the details presented by him during SIT investigation was leaked by that Supreme court(!!!) appointed team. what can he do for that? Modi gang has infected so many people from govt. to everywhere. Can’t you see that??

cskumar (india) 23 Apr, 2011 01:51 AM

now people will teach a lesson to mr.modi. Agree (4)Disagree (6)Recommend (2)

NEW DELHI: Brushing aside Gujarat IPS officer Sanjeev Bhatt’s affidavit on CM Narendra Modi’s alleged role in the 2002 riots, BJP on Friday said some people in the state were involved in the “exercise of discovering falsehood”.

As Congress attacked Modi with renewed vigour in the light of Bhatt’s allegations, BJP took the line that no attempt should be made to undermine the existing institutions as the matter was already being probed by SIT under the eyes of the Supreme Court.

“In an affidavit filed by a police officer there can’t be a presumption that it is truthful. Some people in the state are involved in the exercise of discovering falsehood. Let the judicial mechanism look into it,” said senior leader Arun Jaitley in his reaction to the Bhatt’s affidavit before the Supreme Court. “You and I cannot be judge of what truthfully happened. Judicial mechanism is looking into it…let us leave it to that mechanism,” he said. Bhatt, however, has said that he has no faith in the SIT.

Party spokesperson Nirmala Sitharaman, too, said the party had full faith in the Supreme Court. “SIT probe into Gujarat riots is being monitored by the Supreme Court. It is important that we do not undermine established institutions,” she said.

Naming Modi in the affidavit, Bhatt is said to have alleged that the chief minister asked government officials to allow Hindus to give vent to their anger over the Godhra incident. Modi allegedly told senior police officers that this was the time to teach Muslims a lesson.

Readers’ opinions (5)

Recommended (2)

kk (bengaluru) 23 Apr, 2011 08:31 PM

true. bhatt does not have faith in “SIT. he would not have faith in supreme court if it does not endorse his views. pseudo secularists do not have faith in any one who may speak in favour of or in praise of modi. consider hazare as an example and sarabhai’s reaction. why not declare dictatorship in india, ban all opposition parties except those who are secular like muslim league and do away with the farce of democracy. we have decided that modi and bjp are guilty of murder and no court, no evidence, no fact, no truth can convince us against that. we are the ultimate truth, ultimate deciders. we have decided. let others not even think of contradicting us. long live justice, if it is in our favour otherwise let it perish.

Hacky (Gujrat) 23 Apr, 2011 12:55 PM

Congessiez and there croonies had to come up with something quickly after they have been caught pants down by Hazare. So they have got there stooge officer to maker false statements. Another of those old tricks by corrupt politicians. Reminds me of those bollywood movies.

Satv (Delhi 58) 23 Apr, 2011 07:33 AM

The BJP camp don’t understand that there are two different case SIT is taking care of one and Mr. Bhatt has file a different one.There answer regarding the merging scenario is childish.They had combined the latest of Bhatt into the past of SIT.As political party they are allowed to issue any statement but the court will decide on Bhatt’s affidavit not on statement by Congress or Bjp.In conclusion:Modi is in for free ride to plice station then court. Agree (4)Disagree (9)Recommend (1)

Dr. O. P. Sudrania (Mumbai/Siliguri) 23 Apr, 2011 03:00 AM

How can Congress justify since they may be themselves the agents behind this culpable officer after this long period. Further this officer could not have been expected during that meeting since he was too junior at that time. Hence it is not believable this officer is speaking truth. Secondly I have serious doubts in his competency as he is posted as a principal in a police academy. This may be regarded as a shunting in his placement and may be exploited by Modi’s detractors. Difficult to concieve the veracity and truthfulness after this long lapse. Anyway SC is monitoring the issue and we must wait till their final verdict comes out. Until that time, media will keep building their TRPs. God bless Agree (14)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)

edris (dallas) 23 Apr, 2011 02:04 AM

Were BJP leaders present there what Modi said to Police officers during riots,how can BJP leaders sitting in Delhi pass any judgement in favor of Modi,It was well known fact from begining when Guj,Govt.officers were inculuded in SIT,that there will be no fair investigation,and it had come out truth,if any one speaks in favor of Modi its fine,the moment any one speak against him is called motivated mischievioius,etc thats the only game played by BJP so far.Let the truth come out and let there be thorough enquiry about SIT members also who wants to cover up Modi for what price? Agree (4)Disagree (17)

NEW DELHI: Police records of the Gujarat riots, which were claimed to have been destroyed in the routine course, have suddenly surfaced after nine years. In a curious but potentially far-reaching development, PC Pande, who was commissioner of Ahmedabad during the 2002 carnage, is learnt to have submitted over 3,000 pages of scanned copies of those records before the Supreme Court-appointed special investigation team (SIT).

This change followed the Supreme Court’s order on March 15 directing the SIT, headed by former CBI director RK Raghavan, to conduct a further probe on the alleged complicity of the Narendra Modi administration in the riots because of a mismatch between its findings and inferences.

One such mismatch was that the SIT did not recommend that any of the high-ups be booked for destruction of evidence even after it had acknowledged the charge made by the complainants, Zakia Jafri and Teesta Setalvad, that vital records pertaining to the riots had been destroyed to shield the culprits.

Pande’s belated submission of scanned copies came to light on April 11 as the SIT official probing the complaint alleging larger conspiracy, AK Malhotra, informed Setalvad about it while recording her statement. Malhotra stopped Setalvad from dwelling on the charge of destruction of evidence saying that, thanks to Pande’s unexpected move, a lot of records were now available, even if they were only scanned copies in a CD.

Though this disclosure could change the complexion of the case, Setalvad, in a letter to Malhotra on April 20, urged the SIT to exercise caution in dealing with the evidence produced by Pande, who, after his stint as commissioner of Ahmedabad in 2002, went on to become DGP of Gujarat and is now, after his retirement from IPS, chairman of the state police housing corporation.

Pande, like other officials, had earlier maintained before the SIT that many of the police records were unavailable as they had ostensibly been destroyed due to the passage of time. The officials could never give a plausible explanation for not preserving the documents that could have a vital bearing on the criminal investigations, trial proceedings and judicial inquiries related to the 2002 violence.

For all its significance, the resurrection of records through Pande’s CD of scanned pages raises questions about whether he had a change of heart or it was a covert attempt to save his skin or it was part of a fresh strategy adopted by the Modi government.

“I have nothing to say,” Pande asserted, when TOI asked him about his CD to SIT. Raghavan did not respond to an email sent on Friday morning asking him about the nature of the records revealed by Pande and their impact on the SIT’s probe on the conspiracy behind the post-Godhra riots.

‘Destroyed’ Guj riots records suddenly resurface

Comments (32)

Recommended (17)

Sunita (Kolkata) 23 Apr, 2011 10:21 AM

This is the Congress’s ploy to again defame the Modi, & divert the attention towards this, from currption of congress govt. at all levels. So, this is the again one IPS officer, sold his soul for some gain, & the beneficiary is Congress. When congress feels isolated, then they play this sort of things to tarnish the images of BJP/RSS

Jayesh (Rajkot) 23 Apr, 2011 10:05 AM

waha Andher Nahi, ye baat ek bar phir ubhar ke samne aa gayi hai, ultimatly Shaitan’s Ten years is just at the completion and he will be fully exposed in the light of New evidence, even their own peoples ( So called ) will not remain with him, will keep distance with him in his all wrong doings, including Advani and jatly, sorry Jetly Agree (7)Disagree (3)Recommend (3)

Naresh (Delhi) 23 Apr, 2011 08:48 AM

Can we trust a person who for convience of Modi first acted in partisian manner than concealed and destroyed records,now say that he has a CD of those records as moch of 3000 pages, are not tempered/doctered. When he still enjoy larges of Modi. I ask civil society if a corrupt is expexted to resigne as soon as his corruption is reported, even before investigation is throughly completed ,should a murderer be allowed to remain in CM’s chair. Why? Should we give weightage to opinion of RSS/BJP wallas, who are wearing doble spectacle to see? Agree (9)Disagree (10)Recommend (3)

Instead of praising Modi, Anna should start an hunger strike in Gandhunagar. Then Anna will learn the hard way like Medha Patkar, what is real Modi!

M.P. Prabhakaran (New York City) 23 Apr, 2011 08:29 AM

Let’s be patient. The truth will eventually out. All culprits invnolved in this will have to do a lot of explaining. Agree (19)Disagree (1)Recommend (5)

PRADEEP.UR FRIEND (Haryana) 23 Apr, 2011 08:09 AM

Being a sympathiser of RSS/BJP does not imply that somebody is anti-Muslim/Christian.Don’t forget that our left and right secular parties always ganged upon against BJP/RSS.Anyway,if anybody however remotely connected with any annihilation programmes should be dealt with severely. No mercy/leniency should be shown. At the same time,it should be ensured that the person/individual undergoing trial/punishment is the real culprit.Never approach with prejudices. Agree (16)Disagree (1)Recommend (4)

Richie Singh (Toronto) 23 Apr, 2011 08:05 AM

Everyone Should know that these politicians : BJP, RSS and CONG ,others. DO NO CARE ABOUT HINDU OR MUSLIM OR SIKH OR CHRISTIANS….. They are just Gundaa’s [Criminals] and they will make any deals / kill any number of people it takes to retain their position of power. SO do not favor those bastards, they deserve no respect and are just violent, corrupt and manipulating perverts. SO lets hope that SC decided to hang him {in my dreams..}…… but at least something to needs to change. We the people who votes can make the difference. Lets vote on the Merits of the person and party not based on religion or other choices. Jai Hind. Agree (16)Disagree (4)Recommend (7)

mmeshh (Toronto) 23 Apr, 2011 07:56 AM

WHO KNOWS Mr BHATT MAY HAVE BEEN THREATENED BY DAWOOD AND BELIEVE IT NOT BUT ITS TRUE THAT NO HINDU ORGANISATION CAN PROTECT ANY HINDU SO HE(BHATT) CHOSE TO DEFECT FOR PROTECTION. IT IS WEL KNOWN IN MUMBAI WHERE BHAI LOG THAT RUNS THESE BUSSINESS OF COLLECTION AND MURDER HAIL FROM MUSLIM DIASPHORA AND A GAME OF DEFECTION IS VERY WEL PLAYED HERE. Agree (11)Disagree (14)Recommend (1)

Nafeh (KSA) replies to mmeshh 23 Apr, 2011 10:01 AM

How do u know all these? Means u are among them and manipulating all. These kind of act mostly done by some fanatic Indian sitting out of country like u, and working on instruction of foreign Intelligence agencies,i.e. CIA.

Are you saying a criminal and murderer needs to be protected ? Agree (6)Disagree (6)Recommend (1)

satv (delhi 58) 23 Apr, 2011 07:44 AM

Keep on bringing more evidence,Modi is in for free ride to police station and court.He will end up waking in Tihar Central,The final destination as a reward to his intentions. Mr.Modi,The End. Agree (7)Disagree (5)Recommend (3)

enlightenedworldcitizen (India) 23 Apr, 2011 07:34 AM

What kind of documents resurfaced? Were these documents ‘selective’, to favour one over the other? Agree (6)Disagree (1)

Dave (Canada) 23 Apr, 2011 05:26 AM

What a great contrast. In one article which TOI has put as their main news for last 24 hours has Mr.bhatt barking after 8 years and trying to defame Modi. Mind you, no question on his claims made. He has only spoken out not submitted any evidence. And over here, another senior officers claims and scans are coming into questions. Clearly, TOI is being Bias. ( Congress ka raj hain bapu). Agree (9)Disagree (10)Recommend (3)

Satv (Delhi 58) replies to Dave 23 Apr, 2011 07:53 AM

You may know that in your area residence Ajaib Singh Bagri got acquitted in Air India bombings after 31 year.You may also know that law does not depend on the length of case,The law is depend on when and where the evidence and witness become available.So please take a lesson and stop yelling at your failure attempts. Agree (2)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)

don’t read selectively. bhatt has clarified that he was under oath (official secrecy) not to speak on the matter unless asked by a legally binding order. funny that such a large number of people have no sympathy for the killed and have blind love for someone accused of murder. Is it the begininng of Bin-Ladenism in India. If so, India’s future is similar to Pakistan’s. Agree (9)Disagree (7)Recommend (3)

Dave replies to venkatpathy 23 Apr, 2011 06:29 AM

On what bases you’re accusing Modi? do you have any proof? I guess its obvious who is blind. And you idiot, if he was bound to legal secrecy, does that mean that such legal secrecy allows let people die even when you know what’s going to happen? You are as dumb as Mr.Bhatt. One more thing, If Modi is proven guilty, then believe me i would want him to be punished as much as any other responsible person. Atleast i am not an idiot like you. Agree (6)Disagree (6)Recommend (2)

On what basis are you blindly supporting Modi ? Agree (4)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)

swati kandhari (Delhi) replies to Dave 23 Apr, 2011 06:59 AM

If go by TOI and other Media giving too much importance to this Setalvad whose NGO`s credentials are not known and have been projecting her as investigator,enforcer even higher than Administrative officers,this design and surfacing of Bhatt Affidavit of April,14 on April,22 after Congress fiasco of Defaming Civil Soc.Committee members went against congress.The congress is trying to move public attention away from Corruption issues. Agree (6)Disagree (7)Recommend (3)

Roy (Nagpur) 23 Apr, 2011 04:55 AM

This Raghavan is a right wing empathizer in the garb of an independent investigator…he panders to the wider Hindu extreme right wing & sends contradictory messages to the Supreme Court about absolving the Hindu’s who took the decision to turn a blind eye on the persona non grata idol of the BJP. The elements, the dregs of Hindu populace who comment in these columns simply do not have an idea of real issue….like thier upbringing blabber blabber & certainly their views are not of the wider Indian Hindu populace. Agree (5)Disagree (4)Recommend (2)

vv (usa) 23 Apr, 2011 03:35 AM

Let us kill some christians and bring BJP back to power. Long live devils. Agree (10)Disagree (9)Recommend (6)

JOHN DAHODI (USA) 23 Apr, 2011 03:29 AM

CAN SC TAKE ACTION AGAINST MODI, NOW? If the SC is still remaining quiet and go on wasting time in SIT probes and continuing the sufferings of the riot victims, it will be the death of democracy in this Country. We have witnessed that the Congress has no guts to raise eye brows to Modi or any Sangh Parivar member only because they do not want to make weak their Hindu vote bank. Modi has been proved anti-Muslim and anti-Islam since he joined RSS and BJP. Modi, Tavadia and several other militants must be brought to the Court for justice and punishment if they are found guilty. The SC is shouting day and nights for the corruption and bribery and foreign bank account holders, we hope, it should take a serious steps in standing up to the communal elements and politicians, who are equally eroding national unity making India weaker converting 20% minority as second class citizen. Agree (3)Disagree (3)Recommend (1)

edris (dallas) 23 Apr, 2011 03:13 AM

SIT Raghavan needs to say more on this matter,it was he who said fair investigation had been there,what kind of fair investigation Mr. Raghavan there had been suspicious about his role in covering Modi. Agree (1)Recommend (1)

meeta (earth) 23 Apr, 2011 03:11 AM

computer and internet files can never be destroyed. Similarly phone calls especially cell phone records can always be retreived for a price from communication satellite sources. unless powerful hackers hack into those sources and corrupt them. But then they would become international criminals

Ashwini (UK) 23 Apr, 2011 02:30 AM

Sonia aunty CD collection is very good every time she releases one whole country starts dancing. Agree (20)Disagree (15)Recommend (9)

singhisking (India) 23 Apr, 2011 02:11 AM

Focus on Corruption Anna Hazare and this is what is congress. Divide and rule Bloody they learnt this from Bristish… After Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her Sikh bodyguards in November of the same year, thousands of Sikhs across India were massacred by organized mobs of criminals. In Delhi, local politicians directed these mobs to Sikh-owned businesses and homes, where innocent Sikhs were subsequently caught hold of, beaten unmercifully, doused with gasoline, and burned alive. To this day, no more than a dozen people have even been charged with the murder of an estimated 10000 Sikhs. The organizers of these pogroms, prominent politicians and city bosses, remain free men while absolutely no justice has been done to Sikhs. The people responsible for this should not be forgiven. Agree (27)Disagree (15)Recommend (12)

Srikanta Dash (Puri) replies to singhisking 23 Apr, 2011 02:57 AM

Sikhs are less important than muslims….Becz they got tax free votes from them Agree (15)Disagree (10)Recommend (6)

Dev (NY) replies to Srikanta Dash 23 Apr, 2011 08:18 AM

Don’t forget sikhs were killed in 1984 by Hindu fanatics, it doesn’t matter what party they belog to. Agree (2)Disagree (1)

gompiepie (new york) 23 Apr, 2011 02:05 AM

This surfaced on April 11 and Setalvad even wrote a letter about it on April 20. Why is ToI reporting this today? Rubbish “news”. Agree (20)Disagree (13)Recommend (7)

Naraboji (Delhi) replies to gompiepie 23 Apr, 2011 04:50 AM

It is because now only the congress managers have decided the amount of money they will pay to the publishing houses. Agree (9)Disagree (5)Recommend (2)

NEW DELHI: Karnataka chief minister BS Yeddyurappa will parade legislators supporting his government before President Pratibha Devisingh Patil on Tuesday.

Yeddyurappa arrived here on Monday night along with 121 MLAs. He is also expected to demand the recall of Governor H R Bhardwaj.

“Governor of Karnataka has been trying to destabilise our government right from beginning. We request President and Prime Minister to save Karnataka, to save democracy by recalling the Governor,” Yeddyurappa told reporters.

Yeddyurappa had on Sunday shot off a protest letter to President Patil, Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh and Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram against the Governor Bhardwaj’s move to recommend President’s rule in Karnataka.

He appealed to them to prevent a constitutional crisis in Karnataka.

The report from Bhardwaj comes in the wake of Supreme Court reversing the Karnataka high court decision of disqualifying 11 BJP rebel MLAs and five independents ahead of the October 10, 2010 floor test in the Assembly.

A rebellion by some lawmakers last year had reduced the Yeddyurappa ministry to a minority in the 225-member Assembly, leading Bhardwaj to order the chief minister to seek a trust vote.

Bhardwaj ordered another trust vote, which Yeddyurappa won on October 14 with 106 votes in favour and 100 against.

Of the 11 BJP rebels who had won back their membership, 10 again expressed their support to Yeddyurappa on Monday, while the 11th refused to do so.

Karnataka crisis: Yeddyurappa to parade MLAs before President

Comments (19)

Recommended (7)

jatin (Ahmedabad) 5 mins ago (12:56 PM)

Congress ( Sonia ) is once more exposed ! A Congress Governor is always a” Chamcha” of High Command, and his recommendations are naturally dictated by Soniaji. Now Congress is in a Fix ! if Yedurappa is not dismissed, it is embarassment and shame for Congress and if he is dismissed, Congress faces Defamation, Agitation and of course Court Trial ! Jeisi Karni, Veisi Bharni. Agree (1)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)

BhideVijay (SHAMELESS SONIA dirty dozens) 7 mins ago (12:54 PM)

None of the press in India except a few aided and abatted by Congress cherts have even criticsed and demanded the recall from governership and been booted out from the party.Sonia and the corrupts only want this type of corruptrs to perpatuate cprruption in the CountrThis SOB still has corrupt judges in the Apex Court as well at all other levels.Mostly all alkrishnan! Agree (1)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)

Asfanji, agape1980 (Saharsa, Bihar) 18 mins ago (12:43 PM)

It is not a great deal for a corrupt to buy few more genetically born corrupts. BJP and Congress both are genetically corrupt. They both nurture corruption coherently. One in the name of pseudo Hinduism another Pseudo Secularism. To clean Indian politics you need to kill these leaches or finally they both will kill all of us one by one. Agree (3)Disagree (4)Recommend (1)

fact (bengaluru) 21 mins ago (12:40 PM)

Last October, when the rebel BJP MLAs had rebelled against BSY, Bhardwaj had sent a similar recommendation on the advice of Home Minister P Chidambaram. But the PM and other Congress leaders refused to play ball. This time, BhardwajÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s motive appears to be more than just please the Congress high command. He wants to return as a Union minister back in New Delhi. Bhardwaj is Ã¢â‚¬Å“sickÃ¢â‚¬Â of Ã¢â‚¬Å“rustingÃ¢â‚¬Â in BangaloreÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Raj Bhavan. Those close to Bhardwaj claim that the PM is ready to make him the law minister again. But Sonia Gandhi is not keen. She had denied him a renewal of his Rajya Sabha term, and sent him as governor after his private claims about having saved the Gandhi family from the Bofors saga reached her ears. But, having created a fresh furore, Bhardwaj might even put in his papers if the Centre rejects his recommendation, say his former aides. Agree (3)Disagree (2)Recommend (1)

fact (Bengaluru) replies to fact 3 mins ago (12:58 PM)

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and the Congress have again refused to accept Karnataka governor H R Bhardwaj’s recommendation to dismiss the B S Yeddyurappa government. They have conveyed to senior BJP leaders that they don’t buy his argument that Karnataka is a fit case for imposition of PresidentÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s rule. Though Bhardwaj sought to convey the impression that he had the backing of the PM (because he had a meeting with him) in sending the recommendation, senior Congress leaders who went into a huddle concluded that any political adventure would end benefitting the BJP and BSY. We are not going to fall into the trap, said a senior aide to External Affairs Minister S M Krishna, who also hails from Karnataka. Krishna conveyed to other Congress leaders that it would be foolish to give a fresh lease of life to BSY when his government was bound to lose ground by June 2013 when the next assembly polls were due. Instead, preparing ourselves to fight the BJP politically on the ground, we would be committing a political blunder, Krishna is said to have opined. His view was shared by other senior leaders including Sonia Gandhi Pranab Mukherjee, A K Antony, and the PM.

vivek kumar (Patna) 21 mins ago (12:40 PM)

This guy is in same category of politicians Raja, pawar and karunanidhi. If you love BJP bring any other less corrupt politician who will do something for people but not only hypes, showoffs and controversies. Agree (3)Disagree (4)Recommend (2)

ThinkingDimaag (India) 28 mins ago (12:33 PM)

Another reason why we need to abandon Parliamentary form of democracy and work for a Presidential system of governance. The current system ensures that the elected representatives, irrespective of party affiliations, are only pre-occupied with saving their chair by all means possible rather than working for people’s welfare. Agree (5)Disagree (3)Recommend (3)

raghu (mysore) 35 mins ago (12:26 PM)

Another yudi drama to get sympathy!!! Agree (6)Disagree (6)Recommend (3)

pantuvarali (Bangalore) replies to raghu 15 mins ago (12:46 PM)

Yaake..nenne baidhidhu innu thalege hogilla…ninna.. Its ok if he does drama than the third rated congress party who are corrupted Agree (3)Disagree (2)Recommend (2)

syed irfan (bangalore) replies to raghu 23 mins ago (12:38 PM)

But he is gaining much more than expected, Now BJP is much more united than ever and one way it is kood for Karnataka devolopment. Hope he will change himself and Use this support from all MLS to do a better work in Karnataka. Agree (2)Disagree (3)Recommend (1)

raghu (mysore) replies to syed irfan 9 mins ago (12:52 PM)

yeah more united to loot state! even reddy bro and 50 dissident supporters also supporting yudi at the moment, otherwise they will lose complete power. Once this controversy over they will back same business-in flight and loot. Who know what kind of promise BJP made to 16 disqualified MLAs. There are more enemy within BJP than outsider. These drama artist very good at blaming other (media, opposition party, governor, lokayuth, court, and people) as if everything alright witin party. Read local news, BJP state president another corrupt eshwarappa don’t like yudi, north karnakata leader shetter waiting for CM post, Goofy looking Ananth Kumar have own camp, Reddy bro with his money and rapist renuka will switch group anytime he want! Are you so blind don’t know anything about BJP party? Disagree (1)

kumud (bangalore) 40 mins ago (12:21 PM)

I guess better option would have been that CM would himself volunteered to prove majority in the house. And get rid of all these controversies. Agree (3)Disagree (5)Recommend (1)

Brij (Thane) 41 mins ago (12:20 PM)

Congress is trying to do everything to destablise BJP govt. Congress cannot digest growth of BJP and trying every unetical manner to sack BJP Govt. It is high time that BJP should learn to hit back, Start attacking directly Sonia and Manmohan and congress, Let people of Karnatka know how corrupt congress is. None can beat Congress in corruption and Pseudo Secularism. Agree (7)Disagree (6)Recommend (5)

Democrat (INDIA) 44 mins ago (12:17 PM)

People of Karnataka should not wait for the Centre to decide. Please handle these rogues on the road and show them the way out other wise democracy is facing death warrant in this country. Agree (6)Disagree (4)Recommend (2)

syed irfan (bangalore) replies to Democrat 19 mins ago (12:42 PM)

Cong is destroying some part, BJP is destroying some part, JD is destroying 3rd quarter and you are telling let us destroy the remaining quarter so that entier 100% of karnataka will be destroyed. Agree (1)

Subba Naidu (Bangalore) replies to Democrat 26 mins ago (12:35 PM)

Dear Democrat You cannot be a democrat. Firstly, you have no courage to reveal your true identity. Secondly, you are giving a call for violence on the road and street fights. Only BJP sympathisers think on such lines. Agree (2)Disagree (2)Recommend (1)

raghu (mysore) replies to Democrat 31 mins ago (12:30 PM)

we all know BJP don’t believe in any LAW! Bloody supporter want India to be like taliban Agree (3)Disagree (6)

Shreyas (Bangalore.) replies to raghu 15 mins ago (12:46 PM)

please mind your language. Agree (1)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)

Lakshmi (India) replies to raghu 15 mins ago (12:46 PM)

Apparently Raghu comes from the so-called secular stables of the congress and consequently has brains similar to that of animals that live in stables.What law is there in the country? The Governor acts like a Congress stooge, the PM is blind to corruption all around him and you talk of law. Funny fellow. Agree (2)Disagree (1)Recommend (2)

NEW DELHI—The U.S. ambassador to New Delhi said Tuesday that India needs to consider whether it is delivering on its side of the new close alliance with the U.S. and do more to tackle graft and encourage foreign investment or the nation’s economic expansion risks losing steam.

“India needs to be asking itself: Is it delivering on the global partnership?” Timothy Roemer said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal as he prepares to leave the post next month and return to the U.S. “The international business community that was pouring money and investment potential into India last year and the year before is now pausing and saying: ‘Where is India heading in terms of investment opportunities, the corruption challenge and inflation?’”

If this perception doesn’t change, he added, India could see downward revisions of as much as two percentage points to estimates for growth this year, considering the impact of higher oil prices and high inflation. Earlier this month, C. Rangarajan, chairman of the Prime Minister’s Economic Advisory Council, forecast Gross Domestic Product growth in the year ending March 31, 2012, of 8.5%, below the government’s forecast of 9%, as a series of interest rate rises to combat high inflation crimps growth. A spokesman for the Prime Minister’s Office had no immediate comment.

Foreign direct investment in India, after rising steadily for years, totaled $18.4 billion from April 2010 to February, down 25% from a year earlier, according to Indian government data, amid a series of corruption scandals that have paralyzed the government and a lack of progress on economic reforms that would make the market more attractive for foreign firms.

Mr. Roemer’s warning comes after two years – his tenure in New Delhi — in which the U.S. and India have, in many respects, dramatically expanded their cooperation and partnership on issues ranging from counter-terrorism to environmentally-friendly technology to coordination over regional policy in Afghanistan.

For decades since India’s independence in 1947, the U.S. viewed India warily as the Indian government maintained strong ties with the former Soviet Union. But relations have warmed in the last decade, in part because the U.S. and India – the world’s richest and largest democracies, respectively – see China as both a rising market and a rising threat. And the two nations have a mutual interest in combating violent Islamist extremism in the wake of the 2001 attacks on the U.S. and the 2008 terror attack on Mumbai.

Both countries have gone to some lengths to showcase the new alliance. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was the guest for the first official state dinner of the Obama presidency in 2009. President Barack Obama addressed a joint session of the Indian parliament – and pledged support for India’s efforts to gain a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council – during a visit here in November. “We’ve made tremendous progress in elevating this to a global partnership,” Mr. Roemer said.

But several areas of friction remain. A high-profile deal on civilian nuclear technology that was years in the making was stymied by an Indian law that puts liability for nuclear accidents on equipment suppliers rather than channeling all liability to operators, which U.S. officials say is the international standard. The U.S. also has been pushing India to open its markets further in areas such as banking, insurance and retail – reforms that have long been discussed in New Delhi but never implemented.

“There’s no doubt this needs to be a two-way street,” Mr. Roemer said, adding it was “frustrating at times to be awaiting the next ‘Finance Minister Singh move’ to open up the markets as happened in 1991″ – a reference to Mr. Singh’s landmark reforms, when he served as finance minister two decades ago, to liberalize India’s economy and ditch its centrally-planned socialist model.

“These steps would help America and American business truly help India and Indian consumers,” Mr. Roemer said. “But India needs to step forward and do this not for American interests but for India and India’s interests.”

Among the biggest frustrations for the U.S. was India’s recent decision not to shortlist two U.S.-made medium-range fighter jets in the global bid process for a contract estimated at about $10 billion. Instead, India’s defense ministry selected two European-made jets as finalists. “We’re going to continue to have a strategic defense relationship with India — one deal won’t make or break it – but to not have one of the U.S. companies make it to the final two or three is puzzling,” Mr. Roemer said.

He added, however, that he expected an announcement in the next few weeks that the U.S., as reported, would win a roughly $4 billion contract for Boeing C-17 military transport aircraft, a deal that he said would support thousands of U.S. jobs. A spokesman for the Indian Air Force confirmed the deal is expected to happen soon.

Mr. Roemer, 54 years old, said he will leave the post early next month and expects his replacement to be named shortly. In his resignation statement, he said he was leaving for personal reasons. He also has been reported to be one of the candidates being considered to replace Commerce Secretary Gary Locke, who was chosen by Mr. Obama as the next ambassador to Beijing. Mr. Roemer declined to comment on that. He also noted that with two kids heading to college before long “the private sector certainly is an attractive potential path.” Mr. Roemer was formerly a Congressman from Indiana.

Write to Paul Beckett at paul.beckett@wsj.com

INDIA NEWS MAY 17, 2011, 6:49 A.M. ET

Roemer: India Must Reform or Risks Slowdown

Comments (1)

Recommend a comment by clicking

0 second ago Sid Harth wrote: (your comment)

I ain’t writing to no Pail Bucket, oops, Paul Becket. I am writing to the Boss. Honorable Timothy Roemer. Here we go again. My dear Timmy, oops, his excellency, the Ambassador to India, Are you gone bonkers? Simply stated, you are spilling the state secrets. I thought that it was Julian Assange’s territory. Oh, well. Now that the cat is out of the bag, it wouldn’t hurt to call it a cat, oops, a dog, oops, a barking capitalist dog. You are barking at the wrong tree, my good buddy, oops, a wrong fire hydrant. India, a country of, culture, oops, an ancient culture, does not take hints, moderate suggestions, milder rebukes, major critical analysis, not even threats, if I am not mistaken, from Imperialist America. India seeks no help and if offered, would repel it, as a lotus leaf repels water. Take your charity somewhere else, dear Tommy boy, oops, Timmy the tool-man, oops, fool-man.

Timothy Roemer last week took a landmark trip of sorts: He visited Gujarat.

Agence France-Presse/Getty Images Timothy Roemer, centre, at the Gandhi Ashram in Ahmedabad, during his visit last week.

In the past two years, the U.S. ambassador to New Delhi has crisscrossed the country and frequently speaks of his travels and the people he meets there. But Gujarat is one state that has been off-limits for U.S. envoys in India for a decade after the horrendous violence that chiefly targeted Muslims in 2002. Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi also has been denied a visa to travel to the U.S.

But Mr. Roemer, who leaves the post next month, visited Gujarat “to explore business to business and people to people” ties, he said in an interview Tuesday. He noted that 20% of Indian Americans hail from the western state and that it has proven to be a magnet for international and Indian business despite Mr. Modi and the allegations against him that he was complicit in the violence against Muslims. Mr. Modi has denied the accusations.

“There are opportunities for business to succeed outside Delhi and Mumbai,” Mr. Roemer said.

He added: “In India, states like Gujarat, Rajasthan, Orissa provide opportunities and despite Mr. Modi having human rights concerns – as expressed by our government – we found a way to engage the businesses and people of Gujarat.”

Was the U.S. Ambassador Right to Visit Gujarat? (Poll)

Result: Tuesday MAY 17, 2011, 7:50 AM EST

YES: 71 Votes/83.5% NO: 14 Votes/16.5%

Comments (4 of 4)

5:10 pm May 17, 2011 Piyush Bhatt wrote:

Why not? why even a question of right or wrong. Gujarat is state within India not in Iran or Pakistan, and US has largest population of Gujarati people.

Are you being paid for such news items? Because no-one would ask this question genuinely. only the anti-modi campaigners would raise such unnecessary questions. Are you really a Paul? or someone like David Headley using American names? 5:05 pm May 17, 2011 APandya wrote:

I am no fan of Modi when it comes to his despicable handling of the 2002 riots. However, it has been ten years and the media seems to be stuck in 2002 when it comes to Gujarat. This is unfortunate because Modi has been reelected three times since ’02 not by whipping up anti-Muslim frenzy but by delivering in terms of good governance. He has created a business friendly environment, and implemented programs that have made a positive difference in the ordinary person’s life. 5:03 pm May 17, 2011 Ash Kumar wrote:

US denied Modi a US Visa because its Indian ambassador had sent notes regarding Modi’s alleged involvement in the riots.. How they verified the facts is best known to them.. But the fact is that Gujrat remains a model Indian state as far as all parameters of social and economic growth is concerned..

Pseudo-secularists, like DMK in Tamil Nadu believed that gifting free rations and free TV’s would blind the voter to their immense corruption in public life, but they failed. Modi on the other hand has been winning the state elections three times in a row purely based on his personal credibility and governance records.

So why is anybody visiting Gujarat being made into such a polarized issue by the media? Where is that enthusiasm to castrate those pseudo-secularists whose uncontrolled greed in looting the national/state treasury leads to countless innocents dying DAILY due to poverty and sickness?? How much lives would a Rs. 1000 Crore bribe money save in India? Is that not Pogrom dressed in Versachi??

The media should come over such obsolete obsessions and help to get things moving forward.. 4:32 pm May 17, 2011 James Williams wrote:

What is wrong in US Ambassador, Mr Tomothy Roemer visiting a sovereign country of Gajarat? Oops, GujaRat? For all practical purposes, Narendra Modi, the emperor of Hindutva dynasty, oops, a nasty-feisty dynasty, is running his state, oops, the country with his won design, oops, shady and shadowy designs. The law, oops, The Law can be translated as Narendra Modi. He is the Law incarnate. He makes rain, yes, he does make rain. Perhaps rain of mayhem, massacre, burning and terrorizing the hapless Muslims of his sovereign domain, namely Gujarat. He also makes the witnesses to the after Godhra massacre vanish, criminals and terrorists of Muslim vanish, pepers, notes, diaries and secret orders vanish. He is Da man, Da Main Man.

A senior police officer's affidavit in the Supreme Court revives memories of the Gujarat carnage.

AJIT SOLANKI/AP

CHIEF MINISTER NARENDRA Modi. The affidavit has the potential to hurt his aspirations to national leadership. Here, he addresses the media after appearing before the SIT in March 2010.

ON April 22, 2011, the ladies' wing of the Southern Gujarat Chamber of Commerce and Industry organised a women entrepreneurs' exhibition in Surat, where Hindi film actor Sherlyn Chopra was one of the guests. Speaking on the sidelines of the programme, the actor gushed that Chief Minister “Narendra Modi is the most dynamic person” she had “ever met”, and “given a chance” she “would like to be his personal assistant”. Sherlyn Chopra went on to add that Modi spoke with style and confidence and that he spoke all the time about progress and a shining India.

Other Modi fans, including many in the blogosphere, picked up the actor's statement to come up with laudatory comments highlighting how a range of personalities from different strata of society, from anti-corruption activist Anna Hazare to actor Sherlyn Chopra, were endorsing Modi, his politics and his style of functioning. The thematic premise of all this commendation was “Modi's commitment to progress and development”.

However, news that emerged that evening from New Delhi once again drew attention to certain areas of Modi's political personality that go beyond “commitment to progress and development”. The news was about the affidavit filed by a senior Gujarat police officer, Sanjiv Rajendra Bhatt, in the Supreme Court, accusing Modi of instigating Hindus in 2002 to “teach a lesson” to Muslims. This instigation, the affidavit asserted, preceded the genocide of Muslims in the State. Naturally, this served to bring down the excitement Chopra's praise generated.

SIDDHARTH DARSHAN KUMAR/AP

MOBS ON THE rampage in a street in Ahmedabad on February 28, 2002.

This sequence of events, which unfolded over a period of around eight hours, signified a roller coaster of sorts for the Modi image. This is not the first time Modi has found himself in such a situation. Time and again, the Gujarat Chief Minister and his supporters have sought to underplay or even obliterate his association with the 2002 carnage and present him as the “leader who created a new, progress-oriented Gujarat, which is waiting to be replicated at the national level under his consummate leadership”. Such has been the force of the campaign that it packs sustained assertions that even large sections of the Muslim minority community are now Modi supporters on account of his development initiatives.

It is not as though this campaign has not had its successes. It has indeed spread far and wide, particularly among a section of the urban middle class. Despite all that, Modi's role in the 2002 carnage has come back to haunt him and his Hindutva-oriented political organisation repeatedly in one forum or the other. The unambiguous message from each of these episodes has been that Modi and his party will find it impossible to live down the Gujarat carnage however much they may try.

In fact, references to the carnage have come up most forcefully when Modi and his supporters have sought to advance the “development man” image aggressively. The BJP's National Executive meeting held in Patna in June 2010 is a case in point. A number of his close supporters had earmarked this conclave as the starting point of an aggressive campaign to project him as the prime ministerial candidate of the BJP-led National Democratic Alliance (NDA). As part of this campaign, advertisements were placed in several newspapers in Bihar extolling Modi's governance skills and personal virtues. These hailed him as a model administrator whose record in Gujarat was worthy of emulation in Bihar and the rest of the country. The message was clear: here is your future Prime Minister.

One advertisement made a special reference to Gujarat's contribution towards relief work for the victims of the floods in the Kosi river and went on to suggest that Modi had taken care to wipe Bihar's tears too when the State suffered.

Another full page advertisement had the picture of Muslim girls in burqas working on computers and the slogan that the Muslim community in Gujarat was advancing much faster than in other parts of India. Barely a day after the publication of the advertisement, it was revealed that the picture was actually taken from a college in Azamgarh in Uttar Pradesh. In others words, it was a blatant trick.

INDRANIL MUKHERJEE/AFP

IN A REFUGEE camp at Bapu Nagar in Ahmedabad in March 2002.

Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar made his displeasure clear at what was going on. He perceived the advertisement relating to the Kosi floods as a direct affront and a challenge to his own administrative skills. As regards the advertisement with the picture of Muslim girls, he lampooned it as a third-rate gimmick. The Janata Dal (United) leader even went to the extent of cancelling the dinner he had planned in honour of his NDA ally's leadership. A couple of days later Nitish Kumar also returned to the Gujarat government the Rs.5 crore grant it had given for flood relief.

Nitish Kumar followed this up with instructions that Modi should not come to campaign in Bihar during the Assembly elections, which were held in October-November 2010. His contention was that Modi's presence would alienate the considerable Muslim support base that the JD(U) had in the State. He also highlighted the advertisement trick using a photograph of Muslim girls to buttress his argument. Ultimately, Modi and the BJP were forced to comply with this direction.

Modi's anti-minority image once again came into sharp focus during the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) inquiry into the Sohrabuddin Sheikh Murder case and particularly after the July 2010 arrest of Amit Shah, his trusted associate and the then Minister of State for Home. Shah was the first Minister to be arrested in the country in a case of fake encounter.

Revelations that a senior Minister of Modi's Cabinet had allegedly taken part in organising an encounter killing of a small-time criminal and his wife, who had no role in any crime, brought back memories of the 2002 carnage and Modi's alleged complicity in it.

All these developments, which signified the return of the 2002 carnage as a major point of discussion in the polity, did cause problems and place impediments in the assiduous image-building exercise that Modi and his associates undertook.

RANJEET KUMAR

BIHAR CHIEF MINISTER Nitish Kumar.

In 2010, during the run-up to the Assembly elections, he made clear his displeasure at the Modi camp's attempts to project the Gujarat Chief Minister's performance as worthy of emulation in Bihar. He ensured that Modi did not campaign in the State.

The latest in this series, Sanjiv Bhatt's affidavit, delineates Modi's alleged complicity in the 2002 carnage in concrete terms. Social activists who have tried to bring justice to the victims and survivors of the carnage over the past nine years believe that Bhatt's affidavit will impart greater strength to the legal points against Modi with regard to his alleged involvement in the carnage.

Call of conscience

Social activist Teesta Setalvad, who has been in the forefront of efforts to bring justice to the riot victims and survivors, points out that from time to time conscientious people have decided to end their silence on the carnage and come out with what they know. “Bhatt's action also needs to be seen in this light, she told Frontline (see interview).

At a broader level, the revelations that have harked back to the 2002 carnage have also underlined the general anti-Muslim thrust of the politics and policies of Narendra Modi and his government. Bhatt's affidavit has brought into sharp focus this thrust. An important point of discussion has been a recent study on “Relative Development of Gujarat and Socio-Religious Differentials” carried out by Dr Abusaleh Shariff, Chief Economist of the National Council of Applied Economic Research (NCAER) and member-secretary of the Sachar Committee, which prepared a comprehensive report on the state of Muslims in the country.

Shariff's study points out that Gujarat's Muslims fare badly on parameters of poverty, hunger, education and vulnerability on security issues. According to the study, levels of hunger are as high in Gujarat as they are in Orissa and Bihar. It also points out that the poverty of Gujarat's Muslims is eight times more than that of high-caste Hindus and 50 per cent more than that of Other Backward Class (OBC) communities. Twelve per cent of the Muslims have bank accounts, but only 2.6 per cent get bank loans.

Discrimination

The study also states that Muslims in Gujarat face high levels of discrimination, even in their enrolment for the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS). In the context of this study, questions have also been raised about Gujarat's claims about vibrant growth in other areas such as infrastructure development and industrialisation.

VIJAY VERMA/PTI

AMIT SHAH, MINISTER of State for Home in the Narendra Modi government who was arrested in 2010 in the Sohrabuddin Sheikh fake encounter case.

In the midst of all this, Modi and his associates have sought to launch a strong counter-attack against Bhatt, highlighting the senior police officer's alleged misdemeanours in service. Central to this counter-attack are certain official proceedings against Sanjiv Bhatt, which allege a recruitment scam while he was chairman of a district police recruitment board.

It is pointed out that Bhatt was charge-sheeted on December 12, 2010, as part of a departmental inquiry into police recruitment that took place in May 1996. It is also pointed out that through a “Confidential” Memorandum, the Home Department had served a show-cause notice on Bhatt on December 29, 2010. A case that came up against him in Rajasthan is also highlighted as part of the counter-attack. It involves allegations by a section of lawyers of Rajasthan that Bhatt had falsely implicated one of their colleagues in a narcotics case in 1996. Bhatt was charge-sheeted in this case by the Rajasthan Police's Crime Branch before a trial court in Jodhpur on April 13, 2000. The IPS officer's appeal against the charges is pending before the Supreme Court.

The argument of the BJP leadership, as also Modi's supporters, is that Bhatt has sought to implicate Modi in the 2002 carnage only to cover up his own culpability in many cases and escape punishment. “In any case, an officer who has been thus implicated and charge-sheeted has no moral authority to raise charges against the Chief Minister. We are sure that his affidavit will not stand up to a good judicial scrutiny,” Prakash Javadekar, BJP spokesperson, told Frontline.

Notwithstanding such assertions, the fact remains that the return of the ghost of the 2002 Gujarat carnage signifies yet another round of political battles and legal wrangling for the BJP, and particularly for Narendra Modi, who continues to cherish an elevation to the top leadership in national politics before the 2014 Lok Sabha elections.

COVER STORY

‘Finally, the truth is getting out'

AJOY ASHIRWAD MAHAPRASHASTA

Interview with Teesta Setalvad of Citizens for Justice and Peace, which is fighting for justice for the victims of the 2002 riots.

TEESTA SETALVAD is the co-editor of Communalism Combat and has been in the forefront of the fight against communal forces and in defence of human rights. Through her organisation Citizens for Justice and Peace (CJP), she continues to fight a lonely legal battle against the Narendra Modi government in connection with the communal riots of 2002. In the context of police officer Sanjiv Bhatt's affidavit alleging that Modi, in a meeting, instructed the policemen not to stop the rioting Hindu mobs, Teesta Setalvad spoke, in this interview, about the pressure tactics of the Modi government and suggested that the Special Investigation Team's (SIT) role in investigating the cases had been below expectations. Excerpts:

What was your immediate reaction to Sanjiv Bhatt's revelations regarding Narendra Modi's role in the riots of 2002?

The first reaction was that finally the truth is getting out. But that was not the first time we heard of this meeting. Policemen, journalists, the political class who were in Gujarat in the first week after Godhra, all knew that such a meeting had happened. I reported about this meeting in Communalism Combat.

The Concerned Citizens Tribunal, headed by Justice V.R. Krishna Iyer and including Justice P.B. Sawant, Justice Hosbet Suresh and K.G. Kannabiran as members, set out guidelines that it would talk about this meeting only if there was sufficient corroboration. I tried to get official corroboration as a convener of the tribunal. In 18 days, the tribunal heard over 16,000 testimonies from all classes. Finally, the official confirmation of this meeting came from Haren Pandya [former Gujarat Minister who was killed in 2003 in suspicious circumstances]. He appeared before the tribunal in mid-May 2002. The ‘words spoken' have not changed in any of the versions since 2002. So Sanjiv Bhatt's revelations are a final direct piece of evidence against Modi because he was present at the meeting. What Haren Pandya said was indirect evidence.

In 2005, when [R.B.] Sreekumar [Additional Director General of Police when the riots took place] filed his fourth affidavit before the Nanavati Commission, he referred to a conversation between him and DGP K. Chakravarthi, in which Chakravarthi said the Chief Minister had done this [the riots]. But all these pieces of evidence were indirect. Bhatt's affidavit is direct evidence, which the Supreme Court cannot ignore. They will, at least, have to examine it.

What are the commonalities in the versions of Sanjiv Bhatt and Haren Pandya?

I can't tell you much because both my statement and that of the SIT are with the judges. So I can't commit any impropriety. But in August 2009, when the SIT chief, R.K. Raghavan, assigned the case to a special inquiry officer, A.K. Malhotra [a non-Gujarat police officer], one of the SIT teams recorded the statements of Justice P.B. Sawant and Justice Hosbet Suresh in Mumbai. These statements are before the High Court and record what Haren Pandya told the Citizens Tribunal. They are pretty much what Sanjiv Bhatt has said in his affidavit. These commonalities will be used, hopefully, by an independent agency to get to the truth.

You need corroboration. We have been saying that the Intelligence Bureau keeps vehicle logs of all government officials. In Bhatt's case, his driver [that day] has confirmed that he had gone to the Chief Minister's house on February 27, 2002, unlike what many Gujarat officials have said. [Some officials denied Bhatt's presence at the meeting and some said they did not remember.] So, all these facts need to be connected to get to the truth.

This is important. There had been incidents of communal violence in this country before 2002, but in just three days in 19 districts of Gujarat 2,500 people were killed. This kind of mayhem had never happened before. So, it has shocked people to hear these kinds of utterances from the Chief Minister himself. Pandya was a member of the RSS [Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh], but even he felt the need to speak. People do find different ways of resistance. Sreekumar did it in a certain way, Rahul Sharma [a police officer who produced a compact disc having phone records that point to connivance of the administration and the rioters in the pogrom] and Haren Pandya did it in their own ways.

Sanjiv Bhatt has also accused the SIT of ignoring his statements for no proper reasons.

As co-petitioners, this is the most painful part of the process. We have full faith in the system and the Supreme Court of India. We expect an agency appointed by the Supreme Court to do a fair and independent job. Unfortunately, the agency, which is investigating many other cases, is found to have huge lacunae. We brought this out in a very sober fashion from October 2009 onwards. We brought out factual issues in front of the Supreme Court.

Narendra Modi won two elections after the Gujarat pogrom. The agency has to realise that Modi is facing severe criminal charges. He commands the State machinery, the administration and the police. He has full access to all the records. If the investigative agency does not insulate itself from the police and the administration, there are chances that evidence can be manipulated or destroyed.

More importantly, as Bhatt also said, people in the police would get to know who is deposing in court at what point of time. Bhatt had to depose before the SIT in 2009 on a specific date, which was later changed. In between the first date and the second one, there were police officers who went and told him what to say and what not to say. This is pretty much what happened with Sreekumar when he deposed before the Nanavati Commission.

The timing of Sanjiv Bhatt's affidavit has been questioned. Why was it that he came up with the affidavit after nine years?

I can only give my understanding of how civil servants work. How people work in certain situations. Bhatt responded in 2009 first, in front of the SIT. The first legal opportunity he got, he did speak.

I think there are different kinds of civil servants. The likes of Sreekumar and Rahul Sharma cannot stomach the illegalities. They took a radical step, which cost them a lot. It cost Sreekumar a promotion. Sharma has also been sidelined. The vast majority would choose a safe option and speak when they get a chance. His defence is also valid. He is an I.B. officer and I.B. officers are not allowed to speak in the public domain unless there is a legal inquiry.

There is another, wider, reason also. There is a certain disbelief as to whether perpetrators of communal violence will ever get punished. Even after the SIT was constituted, people felt that Modi was never going to be punished. All these things add up for a person like Bhatt to take such a stand.

What is your view on the SIT investigation and its handling of evidence? Some of the cases you have spoken about in public were dismissed by the SIT, especially the Kausar Bano episode. The SIT report accused you of “cooking up macabre tales of killing” and tutoring witnesses. A few activists from your organisation, the CJP, have accused you of doing the same.

It was a testimony about the Naroda Patiya massacre. There are 13 witnesses who have deposed on oath, who said that Kausar Bano's womb was split and the foetus was cut into pieces. The judgments are still to come. So how can the SIT say that an incident never happened and that I manufactured it?

The point is that this is a discourse created by the Gujarat government and some members of the SIT to make me and my organisation a target because, eventually, we are the only group that is supporting the victims even today. It is an attempt to discredit me. We told the Gujarat Police that we are available for any legal investigation. But the real aim is not to discredit Teesta but to demoralise the witnesses so that there are acquittals rather than convictions in these cases.

The Hindu, Deccan Herald and Indian Express had carried the Kausar Bano story even before I reached Gujarat. How can you say that Teesta Setalvad manufactured the story? Let it go through a proper legal process and it will automatically get testified. Why is the SIT prejudging the cases like this? If 16 witnesses tell an agency that this man is an accused, you have to record the name and then the court will decide. Does the SIT believe that the Supreme Court has given it the power to judge the accused before the charge sheet is filed? The job of the SIT is to record, and it should do so on the basis of the witnesses.

Teesta tutoring witnesses is not the point. But if 18 witnesses are saying something and the SIT accuses them of filing false affidavits, then the SIT is not convinced about the gravity of the crime and is also pushing the case towards acquittals as an investigative agency. The quality of the statements of witnesses have to be judged and [there is need to] see whether they have withstood the cross-examination in the court first before declaring them false.

Rais Khan and Himanshu Kumar [both of them were members of the CJP before they left it and made allegations against Teesta Setalvad of tutoring witnesses], while making these allegations when the cases are in court because they want to disrupt the trials, are actually committing contempt of court.

Could you tell us a bit about the state of affairs of the victims at present? Their present lives, survival mechanisms and their losses. How have you managed to keep up their tempo when they must be under tremendous pressure not to speak?

That's the question the media should ask first rather than whether I doctored witnesses. What does it take for a victim of mass violence to sustain the story? The Supreme Court ordered a transfer of investigation six years after we made the plea in May 2002. The court appointed Dr R.K. Raghavan in March 2008. The Supreme Court and lawyer Harish Salve delayed the matter till then despite the fact that our lawyers kept bringing it up.

You can sustain the witnesses for this long only by sticking to the truth. Whether it was Zahira Sheikh (chief witness in the Best Bakery case, who kept turning hostile) or anyone else, the core version of their statements has remained the same. That is our biggest strength. Sixteen people have named BJP [Bharatiya Janata Party] Minister Maya Kodnani and VHP [Vishwa Hindu Parishad] leader Jaydeep Patel to the Gujarat Police. Sixteen people have named Atul Vaid of the VHP in the Gulberg Society case. They have talked about P.C. Pande and M.K. Tandon. The test of the victim is whether his or her core version remains the same or not. Our contribution to the cause of these victims has been to sustain these survivors legally, to ensure that they get legal assistance.

The fight for the direct victims, who happen to be minorities, becomes a very lonely one because the community members also sort of move ahead. However, I think one of the biggest things that have happened is the bonding of these people, which is beyond the successes and failures of the cases. Over 650 survivors have become human rights activists. They will not be misled anymore. Such consciousness is seen among the victims.

The narrative of the Gujarat carnage, thanks to the media, has remained in the subterranean realm and not been forgotten like other carnages, be it the 1993 Bombay [now Mumbai] riots or the 1984 killings of Sikhs. Post-2007, corporate influence in the media has made them sway towards the development model of Modi, but still at one level the media have kept the issue alive. Media was victim as well, you know. We have managed to convince the victims that the legal process takes long in this country. They have understood the politics of it. Our biggest victory is that despite the same government ruling the State even now, they have deposed fearlessly in Gujarat.

The economies of many people were demolished. Today, more than 23,000 people continue to live in transit camps. They are not even relief camps. Our organisation has also filed a PIL [public interest litigation] petition on the issue of compensation. Some compensation was given but even today victims of gender violence have not been given any reparation. People who lost their homes worth lakhs were given compensation of Rs.10,000 or Rs.15,000. We are trying to get them a compensation of Rs.2.5 lakh.

Sanjiv Rajendra Bhatt, Principal of the State Reserve Police Training Centre, Junagadh. He said in his affidavit that he could not have disclosed the sensitive information earlier unless he had been called upon to do so under a binding legal obligation.

THE affidavit filed by Sanjiv Rajendra Bhatt, Principal of the State Reserve Police Training Centre, Junagadh, Gujarat, on April 14 in the Supreme Court raises questions about its legal significance and relevance in nailing Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi's alleged connivance in the carnage against Muslims in the aftermath of the Sabarmati Express train tragedy in Godhra on February 27, 2002. Bhatt has brought on record certain aspects of the investigation done by the Special Investigation Team (SIT) appointed by the court to probe some of the allegations regarding the carnage. He claimed that he could not have disclosed the sensitive information earlier unless he had been called upon to do so under a binding legal obligation.

An affidavit is an important document and the consequences of a false affidavit are serious. An affidavit can be sworn by a party to the suit or application, or by his authorised agent, or, in their absence, by any other person having knowledge of the facts in question. In cases against the state or any other public body, an officer dealing with the matter or having access to the relevant records may do so.

The author of a false affidavit is punishable under Sections 199 and 200 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC). Under Section 199, whoever, in any declaration made or subscribed by him, which declaration any court of justice is authorised to receive as evidence of any fact, makes any statement which is false, and which he either knows or believes to be false, shall be punished in the same manner as if he gave false evidence. Under Section 200, whoever corruptly uses or attempts to use as true any such declaration, knowing the same to be false in any material point, shall be punished in the same manner as if he gave false evidence. Section 193 of the IPC prescribes as punishment a prison term of a maximum of seven years and a fine for such a person.

A court may, at any time, for sufficient reason, order that any particular fact or facts may be proved by affidavit or that the affidavit of any witness may be read at the hearing on such conditions as the court thinks reasonable. Therefore, observers say it is unlikely that a serving police officer will take a huge risk by filing a false affidavit in the apex court.

Bhatt has filed his affidavit in Zakia Ahsan Jafri vs State of Gujarat. Zakia Jafri, wife of the slain Congress leader Ehsan Jafri (who was killed in the Gulberg Society massacre), had made 32 specific allegations against Narendra Modi and functionaries of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and civil servants and police officers. The most serious allegation was that Modi had convened a meeting at his bungalow in Gandhinagar on February 27, 2002, in which he instructed the Director General of Police (DGP), the Chief Secretary, and other senior officials to allow Hindus to vent their anger at Muslims for the Sabarmati train tragedy. The allegation, if proved, could form part of a criminal conspiracy charge against Modi in protecting rioters during the carnage.

The SIT, which is investigating this complaint, has, according to a report in the media, found that the Chief Minister had held such a meeting at his residence after he returned from Godhra that day.

Officials' response

Among the officials of that time, Director General of Police K. Chakravarthi, Secretary (Home) K. Nityanandam, Ahmedabad Commissioner of Police P.C. Pande and Principal Secretary to the Chief Minister P.K. Mishra denied that the Chief Minister gave such an instruction at the meeting. Acting Chief Secretary Swarna Kanta Verma and Additional Chief Secretary (Home) Ashok Narayan pleaded loss of memory owing to passage of time. Secretary to the Chief Minister Anil Mukim denied that he attended the meeting.

According to a story in Tehelka, which scooped the SIT report, SIT Chairman R.K. Raghavan has observed in the report that P.C. Pande, P.K. Mishra and Ashok Narayan, have been accommodated in post-retirement jobs by the Modi government.

Meanwhile, P.B. Sawant, retired Supreme Court Judge, and Hosbet Suresh, retired judge of the Bombay High Court, who were members of the Concerned Citizens Tribunal that inquired into the carnage, shared with the SIT the deposition before them of former Gujarat Minister of State for Revenue Haren Pandya on May 13, 2002. Pandya had told the Tribunal that he had attended the February 27, 2002, meeting, in which Modi made it clear that the police should not come in the way of a Hindu backlash.

Pandya was killed on March 26, 2003, making it impossible to confirm whether he had referred to the same meeting in which the senior officers had taken part. Curiously, however, the SIT did not consider the retired judges' statements because Pandya's deposition before them had not been recorded. The SIT concluded that it could not establish whether Modi had instructed the senior officials present at that meeting to allow Hindus to vent their anger.

Ironically, the SIT reached this conclusion even though Bhatt had brought to its knowledge that he was present at that meeting and was willing to testify after a criminal case was registered. Curiously, when the SIT examined Modi on March 25, 2010, he knew what Bhatt had told the SIT earlier. Asked by the SIT who all were present at the meeting on February 27, 2002, Modi named seven officers but added, without any prompting, that Bhatt was not present as this was a high-level meeting.

Bhatt was posted as a Deputy Commissioner of Police in the State Intelligence Bureau at that time. Since the State intelligence chief, G.C. Raigar, was on leave, the DGP wanted Bhatt to be present at the meeting to provide the necessary inputs.

Of the seven officers Modi claimed were present at the meeting, P.K. Mishra said he could not recollect if Bhatt was there. While Chakravarthi denied Bhatt's presence, the replies of the other three were vague. Verma and Narayan pleaded loss of memory.

The SIT inquiry officer, A.K. Malhotra, according to the story in Tehelka (February 12, 2011), had concluded: “Since Bhatt's presence at the meeting is not proved his statement has to be ignored.” The Tehelka story suggests that SIT Chairman R.K. Raghavan, too, inexplicably, endorsed Malhotra's conclusion and considered Bhatt an unreliable witness.

“Disquieting aspects”

Put in this context, Bhatt's affidavit raises interesting issues. While submitting the affidavit to the Supreme Court registry, with a copy to Raju Ramachandran, amicus curiae in this case, Bhatt said in his letter that he was not a party to the case but believed his affidavit disclosed facts that could be crucial to the determination of issues before the Supreme Court.

He said he had deposed before the SIT on several occasions and added that he filed the affidavit to bring on record certain disquieting aspects and inadequacies in the manner and approach of the SIT.

He claimed that he had provided the SIT with verifiable details regarding the ongoing cover-up operation, including the contemporaneous efforts made by high officials of the State administration to undermine the proceedings before the Supreme Court. He alleged that the SIT was disinclined to follow up these important leads.

According to him, the SIT does not appear to be living up to the enormous trust reposed in it by the Supreme Court to conduct an impartial and thorough probe into the allegations of a larger conspiracy and administrative complicity behind the Gujarat carnage.

More important, in his affidavit, Bhatt claimed that he gave the SIT, the names of witnesses who could corroborate the fact of his having attended the meeting with the Chief Minister on February 27, 2002. However, he alleged, the SIT chose to intimidate certain witnesses and coerce them into refraining from stating the facts. He requested the Supreme Court to ensure that the SIT followed up on all the leads provided by him in such a manner that even reluctant witnesses felt safe and confident to state the truth. He also appealed to the court to direct the authorities concerned to provide adequate and foolproof security to him and his family.

Bhatt's affidavit has landed the Supreme Court and the SIT in a serious dilemma. According to those familiar with the Supreme Court's procedure, the court must decide whether to take his affidavit on record. The question is whether the Supreme Court should take evidence directly from a witness who has been examined by the SIT.

Once the court, having answered this question, admits the affidavit, it must give the SIT a chance to reply to Bhatt's allegations. The SIT would then have to disprove Bhatt's claim that he was present at the Chief Minister's meeting with the officials on February 27, 2002. This would be a challenging situation, considering the fact that the SIT had dismissed Bhatt's testimony as unreliable. The court would then have to take a call on Bhatt's affidavit.

COVER STORY

‘His report is credible'

T.K. RAJALAKSHMI

Interview with Prakash Karat, general secretary, CPI(M).

VIPIN CHANDRAN

Prakash Karat: “There seems to be reluctance on the part of the SIT to seriously investigate the role of Chief Minister Narendra Modi.”

How significant are the revelations made by the Gujarat IPS officer in his affidavit implicating Chief Minister Narendra Modi, considering that there is a move to discredit the police officer?

The affidavit filed by the IPS officer Sanjiv Bhatt in the Supreme Court is highly revealing. It is well known that for the first 48 hours when the mobs ran amok attacking Muslims all over Gujarat, the police were silent spectators or, in some places, aided and abetted them. The affidavit provides the first concrete instance of why this happened. The Chief Minister, meeting with senior police officers, instructed them to allow Hindus to vent their anger. There is no reason to believe that a police officer would commit perjury and lie about being present at the meeting. His driver has also confirmed that he went to the venue of the meeting.

Apart from everything else, his report is credible because it matches with what really happened. Without instructions from the top, there could not have been inaction by the police all over the place.

We have seen in cases of widespread communal violence where, in some instances, the police act in a partisan manner but not to the extent when the entire state machinery becomes passive or complicit. There can be some individual instances of police inaction, but when it happens all over the State at the same time – that is why what he says appears to be credible.

Do you feel that there has been a cover-up by the SIT as stated by Bhatt in his affidavit?

There seems to be reluctance on the part of the SIT to seriously investigate the role of Chief Minister Narendra Modi. Earlier, too, a senior police officer, R.B. Sreekumar, had provided sufficient information about how the entire operation was managed.

One would expect the SIT to gather all the evidence and make a case on Narendra Modi. The atmosphere in Gujarat is such that police officers and civil servants find it difficult to come out with the truth and take a stand. We have seen how other upright officers have been victimised.

There are some who claim that Bhatt's affidavit implicating the Chief Minister is motivated to discredit the development work done by the Modi government.

We are talking about 2002, which saw the worst pogroms against the minority community. You cannot justify or cover up this crime by touting development as an excuse.

The affidavit directly pinpoints the Chief Minister. Do you think this is reason enough for him to step down? Some political parties have demanded his resignation.

I think that the evidence and the material available merit the filing of a case against Narendra Modi. If that happens, it will be untenable for him to continue as Chief Minister.

COVER STORY

‘State's role will be questioned'

T.K. RAJALAKSHMI

Interview with D. Raja, national secretary, CPI.

C. VENKATACHALAPATH

D. Raja: “The delay cannot be used as a reason to dismiss the issues raised in the affidavit.”

POLITICAL parties, including the Left parties, feel that the affidavit submitted to the Supreme Court by IPS officer Sanjiv Bhatt needs to be given due importance in view of the seriousness of the post-Godhra carnage in 2002 and the context of the discourse around the development of Gujarat under Chief Minister Narendra Modi. Excerpts from an interview with D. Raja, Rajya Sabha member and national secretary, Communist Party of India:

What is the significance of Sanjiv Bhatt's affidavit? What does it say of the SIT in which a lot of confidence was reposed by people.

The IPS officer took a long time to come out and there must be a reason why he did so. The delay cannot be used as a reason to dismiss the issues raised in the affidavit. That an officer in service should come forward gives an amount of credence, and cannot be dismissed that easily. The SIT should take it seriously. The judiciary too should take note of it.

When the Gujarat pogrom took place, the Left parties and others said that such a horrendous crime could not have taken place without the connivance of the State government. It was not a spontaneous act of violence and even the Supreme Court made some comparisons with Emperor Nero. The present revelation shows that there was a conscious attempt to teach Muslims a lesson by the State administration. The question should be the other way around: why was it that honest officers were unable to speak the truth? What were the pressures and the compelling reasons?

Some of his colleagues, including the then Director General of Police, have tried to discredit his testimony.

The police are expected to act objectively and in a situation like the post-Godhra violence, they should have remained non-partisan, non-prejudicial, non-biased and pro-people. Our police forces are politicised and brutalised. We saw it in Mumbai, in the aftermath of the demolition. The findings of the [B.N.] Srikrishna Commission of Inquiry had indicted the police severely.

The constitution of the SIT and the monitoring by the Supreme Court show the need for an objective, independent pursuit of the cases in Gujarat. Not only Muslims in Gujarat but Christians too were targeted during Atal Bihari Vajpayee's tenure at the Centre. Instead of being critical of the State government, he said that conversion needed to be debated. There was no forthright condemnation.

These issues are going to be raised in Gujarat. The only problem is that the Left isn't a strong force. In Gujarat, the Congress, which claims to be a secular force, is hardly seen as a serious force against communalism.

There are some who say that all-round development work has been done by the Modi government and that issues like Bhatt's affidavit have been raised to tarnish the government's image.

Secularism should be accompanied with social justice, equitable economic development. This is what inclusive growth is all about. Gujarat, which has a port area, had the advantage of infrastructure development like all those centres that were declared presidencies by the East India Company. This gave an impetus to growth in the post-Independence period. But there is uneven development, which is a characteristic of capitalistic growth. In the post-1990s, the corporate sector took advantage of the neoliberal policies. So it is not because of Modi but because of many other factors.

The other thing is that people were killed in 2002. No one can deny what happened. There are questions about the role of the State government. Had it been any other government, it would have been seen as a simple collapse of the law and order machinery.

But as Gujarat had been declared the laboratory of the Sangh Parivar, there was an ideological underpinning to the entire violence. The State government was in the hands of a party whose ideology is sectarian and fascist. That is why the role of the state will be continuously questioned as long as the BJP is in power there. Whatever one might say about Ayodhya, there was no doubt in anyone's mind that it was the BJP that had built the movement and created the atmosphere for the demolition of the Babri Masjid. Nobody can exonerate the role of the BJP's top leaders in that movement.

COVER STORY

Marketing a myth

LYLA BAVADAMin Vadodara

Narendra Modi seems to have set aside Hindutva to appease big business while the human development indices of Gujarat keep falling.

PTI

Chief Minister Narendra Modi poses for a group photograph with business delegates during the concluding ceremony of the 5th Vibrant Gujarat Global Investors Summit 2011 in Gandhinagar on January 13.

WHEN Anna Hazare praised Chief Minister Narendra Modi for his achievements in rural development in Gujarat, it resulted in a slew of messages to the veteran Gandhian from outraged non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and activists.

Rohit Prajapati and Trupti Shah, both social activists in Gujarat, said they had spent five days drafting their reply to Annaji but felt it was worth it because it had to be said. They said in their message to Hazare: “The statement of Annaji creates a wrong impression. It endorses Modi's authoritarian, fascist government, which is anti-farmer, anti-women, anti-working class, anti-Dalit, anti-tribal, anti-minorities, anti-environment, and against all the marginalised groups.”

A response also came from social activist and danseuse Mallika Sarabhai, who called Hazare's endorsement “appalling” and threatened to distance herself from the Lokpal movement unless Hazare “irrevocably retracted” his statement. Quick to point out the irony of the situation was the social activist Teesta Setalvad, who said there had been no Lokayukta in Gujarat for almost seven years.

Prajapati and Shah invited Hazare to Gujarat to see the so-called development work of a “Chief Minister who turned his back on scores of farmers who demand their right to farming as in the case of the Mahuva agitation; on tribal people who seek forest land”, and turned a “blind eye to pollution in towns and villages like Ankleshwar, Vapi, Nandesari, Vatva, Saurashtra and Kutch” and “fishing communities being deprived of their livelihood in Kutch”.

Gujarat is a State divided. At one end there is progress: 90 per cent of the village roads are paved; 98 per cent of the villages are electrified, with 80 per cent of them having electrified homes and 18 hours of electricity every day; and 86 per cent have piped water supply and good phone connections, banks, post offices and bus services. But amid all this, there are falling human development and social indices and rising corruption, which is all the more unacceptable because of the clean and progressive image that is being projected of the State.

Three big scams in two years have done little to promote Modi's Vibrant Gujarat. There was the Rs.1,700 crore Sujalam Sufalam scam in 2009: labourers who were to be given wheat in exchange for digging ponds in fields were given rice instead by local fair price traders although they had been paid wheat prices by the government. Many of the ponds were ‘dug' only on paper and large stocks of the rice were sent to Maharashtra and sold there at a profit. Also in 2009 came the Rs.260 crore scam pertaining to the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme: non-existent traders sold boris (sacks) to set up sandbag check dams, non-existent labourers were registered, and NREGA funds were misappropriated. In 2010, it was found that the Fisheries Minister had been awarding contracts for fishing in 58 reservoirs across the State. Reservoir fishing is awarded on the basis of tenders. It was alleged that the irregularity cost the State exchequer Rs.600 crore.

In 2003, Modi initiated the Vibrant Gujarat Summit to attract investors to the State. The first time he attracted proposals worth Rs.69 crore. In 2005, he got Rs.1 lakh crore. Then Rs.4 lakh crore in 2007, Rs.12 lakh crore in 2009 and almost Rs.21 lakh crore in 2011.

So what is it that the investors get in return for this undoubted confidence they have placed in Modi? In a nutshell, they get easy access to land and water wherever they want it. They also get tax exemptions for five years in which they are also exempt from labour laws. In this easy scheme of things, agricultural land is easily turned into non-agricultural land and tribal land is handed over to industries. Companies that have been polluters and have been hauled up by courts and ordered to clean up their act respond by simply moving out to new areas.

Vibrant Gujarat operates on a straightforward principle – roll out the red carpet for big money and ensure that everything is placed at its disposal. Social indices such as health, especially of women and children; education; the status of minorities; the economic health of the middle class and the poor; jobs, livelihoods and environmental concerns are all taking a back seat in what people are beginning to call the race to help the already rich.

Exclusive club

The beneficiaries seem to be a small and exclusive club. Employment generation has not kept up with that in other States. Teesta Setalvad, in an article entitled “Vibrant Gujarat summit – 2011 – Ridiculous show-off of Power”, has compared the investment and employment opportunities of Gujarat, Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu. She concludes that from 2006 to 2010, Maharashtra had Rs.4,20,546 crore in investment and employment opportunities worth Rs.8,63,395; and Tamil Nadu had investments worth Rs.1,63,280 crore and employment opportunities worth Rs.13,09,613, whereas Gujarat had investments worth Rs.5,35,873 crore and employment opportunities worth Rs.6,47,631.

Teesta Setalvad's analysis says: “At the end of the year 2009-10 in Gujarat there were 8,32,000 educated unemployed people. Number of educated unemployed people was 9,64,000 in 2004, 9,00,000 in 2005, 8,30,000 in 2006, 7,78,000 in 2007, 8,25,000 in 2008 and in 2009 also it was 8,25,000. Now if in the year 2003, 2005, 2007 there has been capital investment as per [what the] Chief Minister says, then why there has not been any significant decrease in the number of these unemployed people?”

Prajapati and Shah say that the “growth” in Gujarat is of a “job killing” kind: “The success story of the two-digit growth has masked the several-digit realities of loss of livelihood, land acquisition, displacement and permanent loss of natural resources, which are treated as free goods in this process. The investment figure without the displacement and depletion of natural resources figure, and the employment figure without loss of livelihood does not make sense,” they said in their message to Hazare.

Dr Abusaleh Shariff, Chief Economist, National Council of Applied Economic Research (NCAER) and member-secretary of the Sachar Committee, said: “Gujarat fares better on direct income measures, but this apparent prosperity masks higher poverty levels and a much lower ranking in human development.” According to a study carried out by Shariff, Gujarat's share is only 5 per cent in the Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme, reflecting the State's inadequate commitment to income generation for the poor. He also said levels of hunger in Gujarat were high and comparable to those in Orissa and Bihar. Only Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand and Madhya Pradesh had higher hunger levels, he said.

The easy availability of land and resources is perhaps the biggest challenge before new industry today, and this is what Modi offers. The Mahuva and Orpat Limited cases highlight how people (especially farmers) are ridden roughshod over by the government in the rush to give land to industries. In the Mahuva case, the local Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) legislator objected to a project that Modi had cleared. In 1999, the then Chief Minister, Keshubhai Patel of the BJP, had ordered the building of four CDTRS (check dam cum tidal regulatory structure) at a cost of over Rs.60 crore. Located in a stretch of 40 km, these were supposed to turn thousands of hectares of land arable. Local farmers were delighted, but their joy was short-lived because the land was handed over to a washing soap company that was diversifying into cement. The land perfectly suited the company's purpose because it had the limestone deposits essential for cement production. But the mining of limestone would spell doom for the natural barrier against salinisation of arable lands. Local resistance to the idea was quashed by goons.

The 214-hectare plant coming up at a cost of Rs.1,400 crore will require a mining lease for over 3,200 hectares. This will displace about 5,000 families, that is, over 30,000 people. Agriculture has been the backbone of Mahuva, which is relatively prosperous and dependent on 20 cotton gins and 50 onion dehydration units.

In February 2010, local MLA Dr Kanubhai Kalsariya organised a rally of the people of the dozen affected villages. Modi rejected the petition of the 5,000 Mahuva residents who walked to Gandhinagar to ask him to cancel the land lease for the plant.

In Saurashtra, a similar land acquisition plan was unfolding. As part of the Vibrant Gujarat scheme, Orpat industries was granted 40 ha of land in Wankaner district to construct a tourist resort. Wankaner is in a drought-prone area. Two shocking concessions were made for Orpat. It was given land at Rs.40 per square metre and sole access to the Garida pond, the lone waterbody in the area that was used for drinking water and irrigation. It was walled off by Orpat.

Angry farmers approached the High Court, which stayed all activity on the site and in March this year ordered that water be released into irrigation canals. Local residents have also challenged the all-too-speedy allotment of land and the price at which it was given. The High Court is expected to give its order on both soon.

Fr Lancy Lobo of the Centre for Culture and Development in Vadodara has been studying development and displacement in Gujarat since Independence. His report entitled “Development-Induced Displacement in Gujarat 1947-2004”, co-authored with Shashikant Kumar, shows 4,00,000 households displaced in 57 years of Independence; this means that 5 per cent of the State's population was affected by developmental projects. Lobo says that a study of 80,000 Gazette notifications of the Government of Gujarat and files from Land Acquisition Departments from 25 Collectorates shows that 33,00,000 hectares of land was acquired in this period.

Shadow of 2002 riots

The communal killings of 2002 still haunt Gujarat. Not only were the camps for the riot-affected closed down with unseemly haste but the ghettoisation of the minority community continues because of the general sense of insecurity. Though it is common to hear it being said that “Muslims have moved on”, the scars are still fresh for the community. If they have “moved on”, it is because they have had to, not because they were assisted or encouraged to. There are huge advertisements and posters of Modi's meeting with Muslim leaders, but within the community this is seen for what it is – buying of peace.

In a study titled “Relative Development of Gujarat and Socio-Religious Differentials”, Shariff says, “Empirical evidence suggests that relative to other States and relative to other communities, Muslims in Gujarat are facing high levels of discrimination and deprivation.”

Indeed, the discrimination extends beyond Muslims to all those who opposed Modi at the time of the riots. Serving Indian Police Service (IPS) officer Sanjiv Bhatt, who has brought on record certain crucial aspects relating to cases from 2002, is Modi's latest victim. The special police protection given to him has been withdrawn, presumably because he did not fall in line.

Lobo says that despite all his bravado, 2002 “still haunts” Modi. He believes Modi “has passed from Hindutva to Gujarati asmita (self-respect) to development. He is trying to offset 2002. I'm not saying he has forgotten the past. It is just dormant for the time being because his focus is development, and development for him means industry right now. And so agriculture is suffering. Tribal people are suffering. Sixty per cent of the land that has been acquired for water resources is in tribal areas. Not only is water being taken away from the tribal people, but the places where it is being sent are already prosperous areas. After globalisation this is the dominant paradigm of development. He is laying the foundation for himself in Delhi in 2020.”

Modi is able to steamroll his way in the State because the bureaucracy is scared and the opposition is ineffective. Lobo feels there is “a strange understanding” between Modi and the Congress, and this seems to be helping Modi consolidate his position further.

However, in March, State Congress president Arjun Modhwadia released some telling statistics. Citing figures from the report of the Suresh P. Tendulkar Committee appointed by the Planning Commission, Modhwadia said 31.8 per cent of the State's population lived below the poverty line. This meant that Gujarat had the highest percentage of poor people in the country. Claiming government statistics as his source, Modhwadia announced that 9,829 workers, 5,447 farmers and 919 farm labourers had committed suicide in the State during Narendra Modi's tenure as Chief Minister.

Undercurrents

So, will Modi's one-sided growth alienate large sections of society? Are his actions creating a gulf between him and his assured voters? There seem to be small rumblings, undercurrents that indicate that his hard-core voters are slightly disgruntled.

They are hesitant to consider the Congress because the party quite obviously lacks a presence. Also, the dominant feeling is still that Modi has restored Gujarati asmita. Speaking plainly, this gives validation to the conflict between Hindus and Muslims. Asmita is a thinly veiled term implying that the minority community has been “taught a lesson” and “put in its place”.

Those who are the new victims of Modi's development goals are in a state of confusion. The man they saw as their hero is now creating policies that are affecting them adversely. There is a feeling of being let down and a reluctance to admit it.

In Luna village near Vadodara, farmers who voted for the BJP are still hesitant to speak against the party though they admit that the party's policies are destroying their livelihoods. They see the BJP as a Hindu party and as Hindus they want to support it. In return they expect favourable policies. That this is not happening is causing some turmoil and they are unwilling to express it openly.

The realisation that Modi has set aside his Hindutva plan, albeit temporarily, and is now set on a course that discriminates on economic grounds is an idea that is yet to sink in among Luna's farmers. Once it does, there is every possibility that the tables may be turned, and Modi may need to change his game plan.

COVER STORY

Stink of ‘development'

LYLA BAVADAM

The channel that carries effluents from the Nandesari industrial estate in Vadodara to the sea. The channel's interiors are a shambles, leading to seepage of effluents into bordering fields.

LUNA village is in Vadodara district. The road to Luna runs alongside fields of bajra, drumstick and vegetables. Separating the road and the fields is a channel 2.5 metres deep and 1.5 metres wide. This is the main channel that carries industrial effluents from Nandesari industrial estate in Vadodara to its final destination in the sea, after passing through 24 villages on its 55-kilometre journey. It is lined with brick and plaster, but its walls are in a state of neglect. In effect, it is an unlined channel. The opening is covered with slabs of concrete, which are again broken in places. Children and animals fall in with unfailing regularity and generally suffer skin ailments ranging from chemical burns to rashes, depending on how long it takes to rescue them. The government says the effluents have been fully treated before release.

A distinct chemical odour rises from the deep red liquid in the channel. According to Rohit Prajapati of the Paryavaran Suraksha Samiti (PSS), this mixture of “heavy metals like chromium, lead and nickel as well as persistent organic pollutants flow untreated into the ocean”. It seeps into the adjoining fields through gaps in the broken plasterwork. Sometimes farmers pump it into their fields because they do not want to pay for irrigation water. The harvest is usually good – plump brinjals with not a blemish on them, large cauliflowers with not a single worm. “My wife would be delighted to see such vegetables in the market,” says Kantibhai Mistry, a social activist who assists the PSS. “Except that I would tell her how they have grown. Even the insects know better than to attack these vegetables. They are so full of poison.”

While the “ laal ne peeru ponni” (local residents refer to the polluted water as “red and yellow water”) seems to act as a temporary insecticide, farmers are only too aware of what it does to their soil. Once the liquid evaporates, the heavy metals remain in the soil. Ghanshyam Ramanbhai Patel, a farmer, said: “It makes the soil hard and lifeless. We have to soften the soil with gypsum, add in extra natural fertilizer, but soon this will make no difference.”

The channel is not the only problem that Luna lives with. Worse is the presence of chemical and dye factories in the midst of an area that is so fertile that it is referred to as the “vegetable basket of Gujarat”. Drumsticks, especially, grow prolifically here and have a huge export market.

Luna's problems started in 2004 when chemical factories started getting permission to set up business there. Luna was an attractive destination because of its closeness to Vadodara. The fact that it was largely agricultural land did not dissuade the factory owners who seemed to know that getting it converted for non-agricultural use would not be difficult. It is a disconcerting but common sight to see chemical factories in the midst of fields. It was not possible to verify what the factories did with their effluents, but the presence of polluted groundwater gives credence to the accusations of the villagers that the factories indulge in reverse boring, that is, they dig a dry bore and get rid of the effluents by pumping it underground. Ghanshyam Patel was the first farmer in Luna to be affected by polluted water. In 2004, he switched on the pump of his borewell, which for 40 years had yielded clear water, and a yellow liquid gushed out. That is how it has been ever since. “In fact,” says Patel wryly, “we are even privileged to get different colours. Sometimes we have blue or red water.”

LYLA BAVADAM

A farmer in Luna village takes a sample of the water irrigating his fields.

As the pollution spread underground, other farmers were also affected. Ghanshyam Chhotu Patel's borewell threw out yellow water a month ago. The Collector and the local official of the Gujarat Pollution Control Board held a public hearing in Luna in February. “Hearings are held when a new factory has to open or if an old one wants to increase production. It is just a natak [farce] to get the NOC [no-objection certificate] issued. No one will hold a hearing if I tell them I have suddenly started getting laal ne peeru ponni.”

Water polluted by chemicals is a part of life in Luna now. Villagers try and make light of it by discussing the colour and shade of the day. But there is a more serious side. Ailments like severe skin rashes and constant itching, mouth and stomach ulcers, blood in stools, and miscarriages are common. Even among animals miscarriages have become frequent, especially among buffaloes. Farmer Anil Valand says, “Our cows and buffaloes drink red water. I wonder what will happen to the people who drink this milk over many years.” Luna sells about 2,000 litres of milk every day to private distributors in Vadodara.

Luna has been fighting what it is now resigned to accept as a losing battle. Ghanshyam Ramanbhai Patel said his correspondence and files from 2004 “were enough to fill a well”. He believes that the pollution is being allowed to happen with the connivance of the government. “If an educated IAS [Indian Administrative Service] man is not moved by 50 letters saying the same thing over and over again what does it mean? It means he has no intention of solving the problem.”

The belief that the government is aiding the polluters seems to have some substance. Common effluent treatment plants (CETPs) are meant to be run by industrial estates. In Gujarat, the government has taken these over under the guise of monitoring them effectively. This, clearly, is not happening. There is an impression that Chief Minister Narendra Modi and the industrialists have come to a cosy arrangement.

Yogesh Patel expressed it thus: “Modi must have told the industrialists that he will take over the CETPs so that they do not need to bother with pollution control. They are only too happy because now they can say they are sending the effluents to the CETPs and they do not know what the government is doing with it. And since governments are known to shirk their work, everyone is resigned to accepting that the CETPs will not function. This way Modi allows them to pollute as long as they keep up production. This is the way we have a Vibrant Gujarat.”

POLITICS

Hares and hounds

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN

The rejection of the PAC report on the 2G scam by 11 members raises questions about the UPA's seriousness in dealing with corruption.

SUBHAV SHUKLA /PTI

PAC CHAIRMAN MURLI Manohar Joshi, after the committee's meeting on the 2G spectrum scam in New Delhi on April 28.

THE inquiry by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) of Parliament into the Rs.1.76-lakh crore 2G spectrum scam is turning out to be as unprecedented as the scam itself. The inquiry is also moving into hitherto uncharted territories and generating a high-voltage controversy. The 2G spectrum deals were characterised by violation of norms and rules, deviation from accepted procedures and, above all, political-corporate intrigues. The PAC inquiry too has been characterised by allegations of violations, deviations and skulduggery. In both, the role played by the Congress-led United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government has raised several questions about probity in political and administrative action.

The controversy over the PAC inquiry reached a high point on April 28, when its members met in Parliament with the stated objective of discussing the draft report. However, no discussion took place on the contents of the report. Instead, the meeting ended in chaos on account of the clamour generated by some members over the method adopted to prepare the report. Ultimately, 11 of the 21 members rejected the report. Nine of them belonged to the UPA, and they were “supported” by one Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) member and one Samajwadi Party (S.P.) member. Ten members, belonging to the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), the Janata Dal (United), the All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (AIADMK), the Biju Janata Dal (BJD), and the Communist Party of India (Marxist), gave their assent to the report.

While the UPA members alleged that PAC Chairman Murli Manohar Joshi, who belongs to the principal opposition BJP, had “outsourced” the report and “leaked” it to the media, the S.P. and BSP members stated that they could not agree to its passage as they did not get sufficient time to go through it. The 11 naysayers then went on to elect Saifuddin Soz of the Congress as the new PAC Chairman. Soz immediately took charge of his new role and conveyed the “rejection” of the report to the offices of the Lok Sabha Speaker and Murli Manohar Joshi.

Joshi pointed out that the appointment of the PAC Chairman was a prerogative of the Speaker and that committee members had no right to elect a new Chairman or remove the incumbent. He also added that the parliamentary convention was that PAC reports were adopted with a consensus in the panel.

“According to direction 69(2) of the Speaker's direction, no committee can reject the draft report prepared by a committee. The direction demands paragraph by paragraph consideration of the draft report. If members have disagreement on any portion of the report, they are free to come up with amendments or write dissent notes,” he told Frontline.

At the time of writing, Joshi was expected to submit the report to Speaker Meira Kumar, but the UPA, particularly the Congress and the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (DMK), is of the view that the Speaker will reject it on procedural grounds since it was not passed in the PAC. In a letter to the Speaker, the UPA members expressed loss of confidence in the BJP leader, stating that he had “scuttled democratic process” in the PAC.

SUSHIL KUMAR VERMA

PAC MEMBERS SAIFUDDIN Soz and Naveen Jindal (left) talking to the media outside Parliament House on April 28.

Kalraj Mishra, a BJP member of the committee, told Frontline that a PAC report had never been rejected in the history of the Indian Parliament and that the Congress and its UPA partners had flagrantly violated parliamentary procedure just because the report castigated the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) about the 2G spectrum allocation scam and indicted Home Minister P. Chidambaram and A. Raja, the former Union Minister for Communications and Information Technology, who was removed from office and arrested for involvement in the spectrum allocation.

“One had sensed moves to scuttle this inquiry right from the period PMO officials were summoned to appear before the PAC. The Congress and DMK members raised a hue and cry and literally prevented it. An investigation into the manner in which the S.P. and the BSP members have turned around to support the rejection of the PAC report would also unravel some unseemly political and administrative skulduggery,” he said.

As the allegations fly back and forth, the PAC inquiry and the games behind it have invited greater public attention. The Speaker's role and her adjudication have become crucial to maintaining the sanctity of a time-tested parliamentary institution.

RAMESH SHARMA/BLOOMBERG NEW

PRIME MINISTER MANMOHAN Singh addressing civil servants on Civil Services Day in New Delhi on April 21.

Interestingly, the allegations about scuttling a probe by a parliamentary committee has come at a time when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has been talking about his government's resolve to deal with the issue of corruption. The latest instance was his address to a conclave of civil servants on April 21, when he said “there is a growing feeling in the people that our laws, systems and procedures are not effective in dealing with corruption” and “we must recognise that there is little public tolerance now for the prevailing state of affairs”.

He also pledged greater transparency in administration and in the process of privatisation of state-run utilities and called upon civil servants to stand up boldly against any political pressure aimed at unfair practices. He told the civil servants specifically that they could contribute in many meaningful ways, with renewed energy, to the fight against corruption.

The developments in the following week, which culminated in the imbroglio at the PAC meet, however, showed that despite the high-sounding rhetoric and the message of determination that it sought to convey, the government and the Congress were only adopting half measures with regard to unravelling the truth and punishing the guilty. An analysis of certain proactive steps taken in the recent cases of corruption points to the primacy of political considerations in conducting inquiries.

Apart from the chaos at the PAC, the period was marked by two other developments – the arrest of Congress Member of Parliament and sports administrator Suresh Kalmadi by the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) following its inquiry into the Commonwealth Games (CWG) scam and the inclusion of Kanimozhi, DMK Rajya Sabha member and daughter of Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi, as a co-conspirator in the CBI's supplementary charge sheet on the 2G spectrum scam.

Technically, the arrest of Kalmadi and the naming of Kanimozhi in the charge sheet were unrelated events that happened on the same day as part of two different cases and two distinct investigations. Kalmadi was arrested on April 25 on the charge of causing a loss of Rs.95 crore to the exchequer by awarding illegal contracts to a Swiss firm for the Timing-Scoring-Result (TSR) system for the CWG.

V.V. KRISHNAN

SURESH KALMADI, THE former chairman of the Organising Committee of the Commonwealth Games, being escorted to the Special CBI court in New Delhi on April 26.

Kanimozhi was named in the charge sheet for the diversion of Rs.214 crore from Swan Telecom, a partnership firm of businessman Shahid Balwa, to the Karunanidhi family-owned Kalaignar TV, of which Kanimozhi is an important shareholder.

The two developments generated considerable discussions in political circles in the national capital and outside. The discussions essentially revolved around the equations between the DMK and the Congress in the light of the 2G scam investigation. The DMK leadership's compelling need to keep Kanimozhi and Karunanidhi's wife Dayalu Ammal, who holds 60 per cent stake in Kalaignar TV, out of the ambit of the 2G investigation formed the core of this discussion. The focus on this aspect was so intense that at one point there were suggestions from within the DMK that the party would sever its relations with the Congress and the UPA if Kanimozhi and Dayalu Ammal were named in the charge sheet.

It is in this context that the arrest of Kalmadi and the naming of Kanimozhi in the charge sheet took place. Obviously, the arrest of Kalmadi, who was also the chief of the Indian Olympic Association (IOA) until that day, was perceived as a measure to soften the blow on the Congress. In any case, Kalmadi's arrest in the CWG scam case was long overdue, and this was highlighted by the principal opposition parties.

Leaders of the BJP and the CPI(M) point out that the action against Kalmadi was also aimed at rationalising before the DMK how the government, particularly the Home Ministry, had not been to able exercise any extra influence or pressure on the investigating agencies. Despite these political connotations, the actions against Kalmadi and Kanimozhi have added some value to the ongoing investigations into corruption scandals.

But the UPA has been thoroughly exposed following the manner in which its PAC members reacted to the draft inquiry report on the 2G scam. Obviously, the developments on April 28 do not mark the culmination of the debate on the PAC inquiry or even a final point in the inquiry itself. This is expected to roll on politically and, in the process, embarrass the Prime Minister's seemingly impassioned exhortations to civil servants to fight corruption.

The state of affairs also indicates that the monsoon session of Parliament will be stormy, especially so in the context of the promise of Manmohan Singh and his Ministry to civil society activists led by Anna Hazare that the government would present the Lokpal Bill, which is committed to control corruption in high places. Questions will naturally be asked about the sincerity and commitment of the UPA government on this front when its MPs are perceived to be bent upon obstructing the work of a parliamentary committee that has been assigned the duty and responsibility of probing and exposing corruption.

POLITICS

In a bind

T.S. SUBRAMANIANin Chennai

A beleaguered DMK feels the heat as Kanimozhi, Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi's daughter, is named in a charge sheet.

R SENTHIL KUMAR /PTI

Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi arrives with his daughter Kanimozhi for the party's high-level meeting in Chennai on April 27.

THE Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (DMK) has been facing crisis after crisis ever since the United Progressive Alliance government sought and obtained the resignation of A. Raja, Union Minister for Communications and Information Technology, on November 14, 2010, for his alleged role in the 2G spectrum scam. In the ongoing political battle of attrition over the 2G scam, the Congress, which heads the alliance, is wearing down the DMK, its partner in the UPA and the ruling party in Tamil Nadu.

The relationship between the two allies is strained once again. A beleaguered DMK is feeling the heat with the fallout of the spectrum scam having reached the doorstep of the DMK president and Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi. Cornered on the issue, the DMK has pledged to fight it legally even as the opposition All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (AIADMK), the Desiya Murpokku Dravida Kazhagam (DMDK) and the Communist Party of India (Marxist) stepped up their offensive.

The latest crisis for the DMK developed on April 25 when the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), which is probing the scam, named in a supplementary charge sheet Karunanidhi's daughter and Rajya Sabha member Kanimozhi, Kalaignar TV managing director Sharad Kumar, and three others for “criminal conspiracy and receiving illegal gratification”. Karunanidhi's wife Dayalu Ammal will be one of the witnesses in the case. Special Judge (CBI) O.P. Saini, who took cognisance of the charge sheet, issued summons to Kanimozhi and Sharad Kumar, and the three others named in the charge sheet – Asif Balwa and Rajiv Aggarwal, directors of Kusegaon Fruits and Vegetables Limited, and Karim Morani, director of Cineyug Films – to appear before his court in New Delhi on May 6.

These five persons, along with Raja and DB Realty co-owners Shahid Balwa and Vinod Goenka, have been arraigned for their involvement in transferring Rs.214 crore from the DB Realty Group to Kalaignar TV between December 2008 and August 2009 by “following a circuitous route” through Dynamix Realty, Kusegaon Fruits and Vegetables Limited and Cineyug Films. Raja was arrested on February 2 for his role in the grant of telecom licences and the allocation of 2G spectrum in 2008 in violation of the established guidelines and procedures. Raja and Shahid Balwa, who was also arrested, have been remanded to judicial custody in Tihar Jail in New Delhi.

While Dayalu Ammal has a 60 per cent stake in Kalaignar TV, Kanimozhi and Sharad Kumar hold 20 per cent each.

The CBI questioned Dayalu Ammal and Kanimozhi on March 12 at the office of Kalaignar TV situated in Anna Arivalayam, the DMK headquarters in Chennai. On February 19, the CBI raided the Kalaignar TV office and interrogated Sharad Kumar after it found an alleged transfer of Rs.214 crore from Cineyug Films to Kalaignar TV. The CBI officers said Cineyug Films arranged the money from Shahid Balwa's DB group, the promoter of Etisalat DB and one of the main beneficiaries of the spectrum allocation. A Kalaignar TV official, however, maintained that the Rs.214 crore was a loan obtained from Cineyug Films and the same was returned with an interest of Rs.31 crore after the deal for picking up stakes in Kalaignar TV collapsed over differences in the valuation of shares.

What has hit the DMK hard is the naming of Kanimozhi as a co-conspirator in the case. The party reacted immediately by convening its high-level implementation committee on April 27. However, the DMK's helplessness was evident when the committee merely passed a resolution expressing “surprise” at the inclusion of the names of Kanimozhi and Sharad Kumar in the charge sheet and vowed to fight the issue legally. It blamed “hegemonistic forces” for playing “a game of political chess” since the Comptroller and Auditor General's report spoke of “presumptive loss” to the Centre. The resolution attacked the press and “some political leaders whose culture and way of life is to indulge in corruption” but who saw the allegations in the 2G scam as “a rare opportunity” to “politicise” the issue, dismember the UPA, “rattle” the DMK and remove Karunanidhi from political leadership.

There was little the DMK could do other than fulminate against the media and “some political leaders”. A chastened DMK did not indulge in brinkmanship this time. On March 5, it had threatened to withdraw six DMK Ministers from the UPA government and offer issue-based support because the Congress demanded that it be allotted 63 seats of its choice for the Assembly elections held on April 13. It is not clear whether the election results on May 13 will give the DMK-led alliance, of which the Congress is a partner, a mandate to rule once again. If the DMK pulls out its Ministers from the Union Cabinet and also loses power in the State, it will find itself in a bind. Informed sources said the DMK sent out feelers to the Congress that it was willing to form a coalition government (an idea it was opposed to earlier) in Tamil Nadu if the DMK-led alliance were to capture power again.

SHANKER CHAKRAVARTY

FORMER COMMUNICATIONS MINISTER A. Raja being taken to court by officials from the CBI headquarters in New Delhi on February 17.

Informed DMK sources said Karunanidhi was anguished that the party's image had taken a beating. He explained to the high-level committee that if he personally brought Kanimozhi from her home to the meeting, it was not because he wanted to save her from the situation she was caught in. He saw her as a party worker and said her rise in the party could not be attributed to her being his daughter. He wanted to protect her on behalf of the party because he did not want the party's image to be bruised. It was out of “jealousy” that people were venting their spleen on Kanimozhi, but he would not betray the party for the sake of anybody, he said. Kanimozhi and her mother, Rajathi Ammal, were in a traumatic situation and he himself had not visited them for three days, the Chief Minister said.

Jayalalithaa's demand

AIADMK general secretary and former Chief Minister Jayalalithaa and CPI(M) State secretary G. Ramakrishnan lost no time in attacking the DMK. Both demanded that Kalaignar TV be taken off the air. Jayalalithaa said it was not enough to merely mention Kanimozhi's name in the charge sheet. In a statement on April 25, she said: “The operational licence granted to Kalaignar TV, which was clearly started with graft money, should be withdrawn and the channel should be taken off the air immediately. Kanimozhi, like all others charge-sheeted so far, should be arrested.” She also wanted all the other members of the Karunanidhi family, “who were direct or indirect beneficiaries in the gargantuan scam” to be charge-sheeted and arrested. She insisted that “the money trail” should be “fully traced” and that “the funds that have been taken out of India should be recovered”.

M. KARUNAKARAN

THE OFFICE OF Kalaignar TV in Anna Arivalayam, the DMK headquarters in Chennai.

Jayalalithaa alleged that the supplementary charge sheet indicated that “a clear kick-back link” had been established between some key beneficiaries of the spectrum largesse doled out by Raja and Karunanidhi's family. “This link has been established through the Rs.214 crore payment made to Kalaignar TV through a maze of companies linked to Shahid Balwa, the promoter of Swan Telecom, one of the biggest beneficiaries” in the scam, she said. “There is no justification for Shahid Balwa to pay Rs.214 crore to a newly launched Tamil television channel in which he has no other interest unless he had been asked to do so by Telecom Minister Raja as a quid pro quo for allotment of 2G spectrum licence,” she added. It was surprising, Jayalalithaa said, that while Kanimozhi and Sharad Kumar were named in the charge sheet, Dayalu Ammal was left out.

Ramakrishnan wanted the functioning of Kalaignar TV, which, he alleged, was set up with the scam money as the capital, to be stopped until the court proceedings were completed. Action should be taken under the Indian Penal Code against the five named in the supplementary charge sheet, and it should be similar to the action taken against Raja, he said.

DMDK leader Vijayakant wanted to know why Dayalu Ammal was not included in the charge sheet when she held shares three times the value of shares held by Kanimozhi. “Since the case was being monitored by the Supreme Court, Karunanidhi, on moral grounds, should resign. Or his government should be dismissed for justice to prevail,” he said.

COLUMN

Denying their due

JAYATI GHOSH

The denial of public resources that are mandated under the Special Component Plan for S.Cs amounts to a huge assault on their basic socio-economic rights.

S. SUBRAMANIUM

DALIT WOMEN AT a rally organised by the National Confederation of Dalit Organisations (NACDOR), in New Delhi. A file photograph. The government of Delhi diverted as much as Rs.744 crore over three years to the CWG from funds that were especially earmarked for the Special Component Plans (SCPs) for the Scheduled Castes in Delhi.

THE arrest of Suresh Kalmadi on April 25 marked yet another scene in the prolonged drama surrounding the Commonwealth Games (CWG) held in Delhi in October 2010. Yet the general media focus on Kalmadi may have served to distract attention from the many other acts of omission and commission that mark the sordid history of that extravagantly planned and deeply flawed public show.

There are stories of funds diversion that have a bearing on issues that go beyond probity and corruption, however important those are. They also have direct and indirect effects on the conditions of existence of some of the most deprived and needy segments of the population. One particular story is that of the government of Delhi diverting as much as Rs.744 crore over three years to the CWG from funds that were especially earmarked for the Special Component Plans (SCPs) for the Scheduled Castes in Delhi.

In fact, this matter was raised in Parliament in August last year. At the time the Minister directly in charge of the government of the National Capital Territory of Delhi, P. Chidambaram (the same one who has recently been busy commenting on the quality of administration in different State governments), was called to book on this account. He accepted that this was wrong and went on to promise that the entire amount would be returned in the Budget for the following year. However, the Delhi government's Budget for 2011-12 shows no such increase – in fact the amount allocated has increased by only around Rs.134 crore to a paltry total of Rs.355 crore.

The idea of SCPs for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes was mooted by the Planning Commission in recognition of the fact that standard expenditure practices have not ensured benefits to specially marginalised communities and localities. The amount to be allocated under the SCP for S.Cs in Delhi is 16.93 per cent of the total Plan expenditure (based on the share of S.C. population according to the 2001 Census). The SCP guidelines indicate that only those schemes that ensure direct benefits to individual families, groups and hamlets of S.C. people should be included under the SCP and that priority should be given to providing basic essential services such as primary education, health, safe drinking water, nutrition, housing, electrification, sanitation, drainage, and prevention of submergence of buildings. Expenditure on livelihood promotion schemes and education is also encouraged.

As it happens, the Delhi government has already been systematically underspending on this crucial category. Instead of the required 16.93 per cent, it has spent on average less than 1.6 per cent in the period 2008-09 to 2010-11 – or around one-tenth of the required spending. This amounts to a cumulative denial of nearly Rs.5,000 crore in these three years. The current year is no better: not only is there no indication of any effort to put back the amount it had siphoned off earlier, as promised last year, but the allocation is still less than 3 per cent of the Plan spending, with a shortfall of nearly Rs.2,000 crore.

Why does all this matter? It matters because this is not just a story about state priorities and expenditure allocations. It amounts to the regular and continuing denial of the basic rights of many citizens who also happen to be Dalit residents of Delhi. Many official and unofficial surveys have found that the bulk of the S.C. population in Delhi is living in extremely precarious, unhealthy and poor conditions that are much worse than those of the general population. There is also evidence of significant discrimination against them in terms of access to infrastructure and basic services.

Delhi is regularly presented by national policymakers as the example of a shining and newly prosperous India. Indeed, in the now-common distinction between “the two Indias” – one rich and emerging if not already emerged, the other still poor and backward – Delhi is typically seen as the archetype of the former. And if one goes by the many newly built flyovers and shiny malls filled with happy consumers, it is easy to be impressed in this way.

But Delhi encapsulates India. It probably contains as much disparity as the country as a whole, with extreme poverty and destitution coexisting with the most extreme expressions of affluence. In the narrow bylanes of resettlement colonies or the chaotic congestion of jhuggi encroachments, very different income and consumption standards prevail. It is not just income but even access to the most essential goods and services that is lacking among such populations.

Because several of these are treated as “unauthorised” colonies, quite often human security is also under threat, not just because of petty criminals and gangs but because of the periodic enforcement drives of the state. A sudden and unannounced demolition drive in late March this year that dispossessed more than 800 families living in jhuggis in Gayatri Colony near Patel Nagar exemplifies this tendency. Even when the heavy hand of the state does not actually destroy the homes and livelihood of such people, the need to placate and bribe agents of the state at various levels creates huge insecurity.

For those familiar with the intertwining of social and economic discrimination in India, it should come as no surprise to learn that Dalits are predominant among such poor people. For example, the Mission Convergence Survey of the government of Delhi found that more than 90 per cent of S.Cs in Delhi were living in jhuggi clusters, resettlement colonies, unauthorised localities and construction sites – not exactly what could be called ideal housing. There were also a significant number of homeless Dalits living next to garbage-dumping sites.

A recent survey of conditions of S.C. families in Delhi conducted by the National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights finds even more appalling conditions in a wide range of areas, and poor access to basic needs. The poor condition of infrastructure and civic amenities endured by most of the sample of 2,400 families is particularly noteworthy. All the S.C. settlements were found to have narrow and dingy streets, poor drainage with overflowing sewage and associated stench and swampy conditions, creating many health hazards. Garbage heaps abounded with little or no public collection facilities.

Sanitary conditions are especially dreadful. Nearly a quarter of the survey respondents used open toilets, but it should be noted that this may be healthier for them than using public toilets (19 per cent), which were inevitably found to be stinking and without adequate water and flushing facilities. The issue of minimally adequate sanitation also has a major gender dimension: women and girls face great reproductive health risks as well as threats to their physical security, especially when they are forced to go long distances in search for privacy for such needs.

Many more examples and statistics relating to the appalling conditions of the majority of Dalit families in Delhi could be mentioned: forced to access only very poorly funded and often discriminatory public education and health care services, insecure livelihood and limited employment opportunities, and so on. But that is really not necessary because the main point is that a lot needs to be done and that there are many ways in which public money could usefully be spent to improve their conditions.

So the denial of public resources that are mandated under the SCP for S.Cs amounts to a huge assault on their basic socio-economic rights, as it forces them to continue to live in squalor and degradation. This major crime of omission has to be rectified immediately, but this will only happen if the government actually finds itself to be accountable in this matter. And for that, many more public voices need to be raised.

COLUMN

A case for autonomy

R.K. RAGHAVAN

The arrest of a Congressman and the naming of an influential member of a UPA partner in a charge sheet are proof of what an independent CBI can achieve.

EVENTS of the past few days should warm the hearts of those who have been clamouring for drastic action against dishonesty in high places. The arrest of a ruling party personality and the charge-sheeting of one high profile influential individual from the ranks of an alliance partner, in two separate cases, is proof enough that, given functional independence and overseen only by the Supreme Court, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) can produce impressive results. The whole nation seems gratified by this fearless move by the CBI, and this has greatly enhanced the much maligned organisation's credibility.

By all accounts, investigation in these two cases was methodical, painstaking and strictly lawful. The Supreme Court also seems satisfied with the quality of work. Is there not a case for strengthening the principal investigating agency's autonomy? No one disputes that such autonomy should be without diluting the CBI's accountability to the law. It is not the case of anybody pitching for the CBI that it should be totally free from any audit of its performance or conduct. What is being advocated by those who believe in non-partisan investigation, especially when an alleged crime involves looking into the role of politically influential individuals, is that the CBI should be allowed to proceed against culpable accused on the basis of facts culled out during its investigation and as per law.

This has possibly not been happening all these years because the ruling party or coalition enjoys arm-twisting authority over the CBI to deflect sensitive investigations just to save the former from embarrassment. Vested interests – similar to those who have been unabashedly scuttling the Anna Hazare movement recently – have indulged in deliberate distortions on the subject by circulating misinformation that once the CBI is given total freedom it will be out of control and devoid of accountability. Nothing can be further from truth.

Many politicians are not impressed with the proposal by some that the Supreme Court should monitor all CBI investigations, important or not. Such an arrangement is perceived as being not in tune with democracy. This is again similar to the attacks on Anna Hazare. He is assailed as anti-democratic all because he wants a decisive role for civil society in drafting the Lokpal Bill. The suggestion that prominence for civil society is contra to democracy is ridiculous to say the least. It is in this context that the proposed Lokpal Bill will have to be viewed.

What kind of relationship will the Lokpal forge with the CBI? One suggestion is that the Lokpal should have its own investigating apparatus. It is relevant that at least in one State, namely, Karnataka, the Lokayukta, the State equivalent of the Lokpal, has its own investigating team. The experience there has been reasonably satisfactory whenever it had a proactive chief such as Justice H. Santosh Hegde. This is the rationale behind the move that seeks a Lokpal, which would have an internal investigation body. The point is building such a team takes enormous time and energy. There is no doubt that talent available in the country is enormous. But the Lokpal staff will have to be chosen with great care, keeping in mind the need for utmost honesty on their part. Traditions will necessarily be built over time.

Possibly, a few CBI officers of proven ability and integrity could form the core of the Lokpal's structure initially. It must, however, be remembered that the CBI itself suffers from a staff crunch and it may be extremely reluctant to part with any of its trusted officers. Retired CBI personnel could help, but such numbers will be too small for induction into the Lokpal.

What will be the CBI's role in a situation where the Lokpal has its own investigating body? This will depend on what shape the Lokpal ultimately takes. It is possible that the Bill provides for the Lokpal drawing on CBI resources and skill whenever a particular case demands it. Such a provision will greatly enlarge the Lokpal's capacity to act fast in some important cases. There is the analogy here of some special investigation teams (SIT) appointed by the Supreme Court or the High Courts indenting for officers serving in some States. The lending rules are flexible enough, and the Union Home Ministry has always shown itself willing to help.

Next comes the question of who all will come under the Lokpal's purview. This is a ticklish and contentious subject where unanimity is hardly likely to emerge. Two functionaries are particularly discussed here. These are the Prime Minister and members of the judiciary. While I can understand the justification for leaving out the latter, considering the need for conserving judicial independence, I do not, in the case of the Prime Minister. He is at best the primus inter pares in the Union Council of Ministers. He is a live political animal and takes or fails to take many crucial decisions that have financial implications. A Manmohan Singh comes only once in a while. The fact that he maintains a nearly 100 per cent honesty is no guarantee that his successors would emulate him.

If the Lokpal has to initiate strong action against a Prime Minister, there are always others who can step in to fill the breach. There will be no constitutional crisis in an eventuality where a Prime Minister has to step down following a Lokpal investigation. A Lokpal Bill without jurisdiction over the Prime Minister is like a Hamlet without the Prince of Denmark. I do not, therefore, comprehend the unwillingness of some in authority now to include the Prime Minister among those who could be investigated by the Lokpal, particularly when the law of the land does not make a distinction between him and the others in the Executive.

The argument is, therefore, grounded on political expediency, which ignores the need for deterring top functionaries from lapsing into dishonesty. The 2G spectrum allocation case alone would indicate how the Prime Minister's authority was flouted by a dishonest Minister, and corruption in high places is an accepted reality. The slightest suggestion that the Lokpal is for handling lesser mortals alone would give the impression that we are intent on making a mockery of the whole battle against corruption.

There is one more area that has to be debated while examining the structure of the Lokpal. How will the Central Vigilance Commission (CVC) fit into the scheme of things if and when the Lokpal becomes a reality? I am all for the CVC being subsumed by the Lokpal. I see no practical difficulty in the merger. Retaining the CVC is superfluous and could create confusion in the minds of those who want to lodge a complaint against a public servant. More than anything else, the CVC' performance until now has been nominal. This is not because its members lacked ideas or zeal. The set-up lacked the clout, which alone could make a difference while fighting sinister forces indulging in corruption or supporting it. The analogy of the Independent Commission against Corruption (ICAC) of Hong Kong is not wholly inappropriate here. To shoot it down as impractical because Hong Kong is a small island is being mulish and shows reluctance to try out bold experiments in a difficult situation.

Finally, many of us are appalled at the sinister attempt to discredit the Anna Hazard movement. Spin doctors based in the national capital have been hyperactive throwing confusion over vital issues surrounding the Lokpal. This is reprehensible, and those involved in this insidious game are doing the greatest disservice to posterity. Influential members of the civil society should join together to appeal to these elements to dissociate themselves

Printer Friendly Page Send this Article to a Friend

ESSAY

IDENTITY & POLITICS

K.N. PANIKKAR

The demographic make-up of South Asia has helped reinforce identity politics in each country in the region.

RANJEET KUMAR

A MAHA DALIT rally organised by the Janata Dal (United) in Patna in February 2010, months before the Assembly elections in Bihar. Nitish Kumar's strategy of identifying the poorest of the Dalit sub-castes as "Maha Dalits" and offering them socio-economic packages served him well.

THE influence exercised by identity politics during the last two centuries in South Asia has been a subject of multidisciplinary inquiries. Historians are rather late entrants into this field; they were drawn into it only when History was invoked to legitimise its origin or to justify its contemporary articulation. When history thus became deeply implicated in the pursuit of identity politics, historians were called upon to explain its meaning and to trace its antecedents. Even then the interest of historians, by and large, revolved around the study of communal identity and its implications for national politics. The varieties of other identities, which practically crowded the social and political space, have bypassed their concern. This essay is an attempt not to fill that void by narrating the modes of articulation of identity politics in South Asia, which is a vast and complex subject, but to throw some light on why identity politics emerged as a dominant force in the region.

Religious dilemma of South Asia

Of the several common characteristics that the modern states in the South Asian region shared, their multicultural and multi-religious compositions have been the most conspicuous. They shaped the demographic pattern, influenced the course of social relations, defined the contours of cultural life and, above all, set certain parameters for the mutual relations of different countries in the region.

Given the commonly shared historical experience, particularly of colonial oppression and resistance, the region had the potential to develop a distinct personality in the post-colonial world through cultural solidarity, economic cooperation and political collaboration.

The history of South Asia during the past 60 years, however, did not realise such a possibility. Instead, the relationship between different states was influenced more by recriminations of the past rather than the possibilities of the future, leading to mutual suspicion, distrust and occasional hostility and even armed conflict. Among the many reasons that led to such a situation, an important factor was the compulsions of ‘mutual vigil' undertaken by these states about the condition of the minorities who were the followers of their religion. The official response apart, popular opinion also played a role in exacerbating mutual tensions occasioned by religious oppression or discrimination. The religious condition of each country not only impinged upon its own internal situation but also affected the mutual relations between the countries constituting the region.

What prompted such an interest and consequent vigil was the nature of distribution of the religious population in these countries. The demographic make-up of South Asia has helped reinforce identity politics in each country. For, ‘India' is present in the communal discourse of Pakistan and Bangladesh, so are ‘Pakistan and Bangladesh' in India. The Tamil leaders of India are emotionally involved with the Sinhala-Tamil conflict. Thus the ethnic and religious configurations were major factors in the formation and articulation of identity politics in individual countries. In all of them, however, identity politics has been in conflict with national and secular politics. In India it goes back to the period of the anti-colonial national movement in which an undercurrent of caste and religious identities was present.

The concerns and anxieties of the Muslim minority in India, the Hindu minorities in Pakistan and Bangladesh and the Tamil minority in Sri Lanka were transmitted to their co-religionists in other countries in the region. The Hindus in India believed that they had a responsibility to safeguard the interest of the Hindus of Pakistan or Bangladesh or of Tamils in Sri Lanka. So did Pakistan and Bangladesh in relation to the Muslims who lived in India. Each of these countries looked upon itself as the protector of its co-religionists in the region. This religious positioning had two implications. First, it attributed a religious identity to each country, even in case of a declared secular state like India; and secondly, it overlooked the fact that it amounted to interference in the internal affairs of other countries.

Being the most powerful country in the region, India tended to undertake the task of ‘course correction' in neighbouring countries. The interference in East Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Nepal are examples. India had sent its army to East Pakistan, presumably in defence of democracy, and to Sri Lanka, to help resolve the ethnic conflict. In recent times India evinced undue, and perhaps uncalled for, interest in the internal turmoil in Nepal. Such a self-assumed responsibility, which progressively gained ground after Independence, was an elixir for the politics of identity in individual states; more grievously it generated hostility towards others, leading to disastrous consequences. Several lives, including that of former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, were lost in the process. No country in the region was able to maintain friendly relations with its neighbours, which intensified the tension between different religious communities.

Different categories

The politics of identity has many hues, demarcated by different states of consciousness prevalent in a society. They can be broadly grouped into two categories: the politics of domination and the politics of resistance. The main motivation of the former is the quest for power for which identity is invoked as a means of mobilisation. The latter is the politics of rights in which identity serves as a cohesive force for achieving internal solidarity. The identity politics of the majority religion belongs to the former, whereas the identity politics of minorities, such as Dalits and Adivasis, to the latter. In the last two centuries, South Asian countries witnessed several instances in which religious identity was at the centre of political movements. However, almost all of them were riven by internal contradictions: religion served as a powerful means of mobilisation; at the same time it also imparted to it political unreality.

Several examples of the role of religious identity in political mobilisation in South Asian society can be cited. The movement for the formation of Pakistan and the construction of a Ram mandir at Ayodhya are prime instances. Although religious identity has served as an emotive symbol to elicit instant political support, it has proved insufficient to ensure the continued sustenance of a sovereign state. That is the lesson the developments in Pakistan culminating in the liberation of Bangladesh affords. The majority of citizens in the western and eastern regions of Pakistan shared the same religious faith. Yet, they could not coexist as a nation, possibly because of internal colonialism practised by the ruling elite of West Pakistan. Given the cultural disparity between the east and the west, the cultural neglect was felt as cultural oppression by the intelligentsia. But whether it was the central issue in the separation of Bangladesh is doubtful, even if culture provided inspiration and legitimacy. The formation of Bangladesh was in fact the negation of the identity politics that had given birth to Pakistan.

The formation of Pakistan and the liberation of Bangladesh, in which large-scale death and destruction of property took place, did not deter the progress of the politics of religious identity in India. Instead, it gave greater momentum to it. Until the end of the anti-colonial struggle the Hindu fundamentalist forces represented by the Hindu Mahasabha and the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh were not able to gain much support. The trauma of Partition was effectively used by them to mobilise the support of the displaced Hindu population. In all the areas where the Hindus who migrated from Pakistan had settled, communal politics rooted in religious identity and hostility gained ground. Partition served as a launching pad for a large-scale mobilisation based on Hindu religious identity.

Among the several factors enabling the construction of Hindu identity politics during the post-Partition era, the projection of the ‘outsider' as the ‘enemy' and the Hindu cultural pre-eminence in the past were the most prominent. History became so integral to Hindu identity politics precisely for these reasons. The Hindu history written up as fables by Vinayak Damodar Savarkar and Navaratna Rajaram cast Muslims as barbarian invaders who indulged in the destruction of Hindu culture and civilisation as a religious mission. They argued that the Muslim invasion was not motivated by plunder alone; it was undertaken to achieve the religious objectives of conversion and destruction of temples. In contrast, the cultural and intellectual attainments and political and administrative excellence of Hindus were projected. To prove the point, the philosophical attainments of the Upanishads were quoted; the healing qualities of Ayurveda were referred to; and the political acumen and administrative skills of the Guptas and the Cholas were invoked. Hindu identity politics was anchored on these two interrelated arguments regarding Muslim aggression, on the one hand, and consequent Hindu decline, on the other. In the light of this experience, Hindu identity politics also assumed the task of imbibing self-confidence and pride in the glorious past and rectifying the ‘historical wrongs' committed by Muslims.

The success of Hindu identity politics was primarily because of its ability to communicate and popularise these two ideas through a series of symbolic acts. Almost all political parties either incorporated the logic of Hindu identity in varying degrees or took care to refrain from injuring popular religious feelings. The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) foregrounded Hindu identity as its political platform and experimented within it to arrive at a programme to unite Hindus. The nature of Hindu identity it projected, however, was Brahmanical in conception and content, and inbuilt into it was an attempt at hegemonisation of various castes and sects. The prime example of Hindu identity politics was the movement leading to the destruction of the Babri Masjid. The tortuous path of temple politics demonstrated that mainstream parties took care to ensure that religious identity was not ruffled.

Religion: Two tendencies

Beginning with the accounts of medieval foreign visitors, a popularly held stereotype about South Asia has been the religious character of the people of the region. In fact, there was nothing particular in the religious life of the people to warrant such a characterisation. What led to this impression perhaps was the public performance of rituals and the annual journey undertaken by devotees to a network of pilgrimage centres. In the past there were only very limited number of such centres and the journey was so arduous that few people undertook it. In recent times, however, a visible change has occurred. The development of transport and communication, improvement in infrastructural facilities, the growth of an affluent middle class and state support to pilgrimage tourism have considerably enhanced popular participation in pilgrimages. Not only has the number of devotees who congregate in these centres swelled, but a large number of new centres of pilgrimage have emerged. As a result, religiosity has become so integral to the life of the people that the characterisation by the medieval travellers is more appropriate to modern times.

The two interrelated tendencies, which had a bearing on identity politics, and which developed simultaneously are the religionisation of politics and the commodification of religion. Both these tendencies had their roots in the increase in religiosity among the followers of all religions; religiosity being understood as distinct from belief in religion, and the fast-changing material conditions of life in the region. Although a global phenomenon, the influence of religiosity is particularly marked in South Asia. Working behind this are a variety of forces: unprecedented proliferation of religious institutions; effective marketing of religious ideas by godmen and godwomen; organisation of religious festivals as grand spectacles; investment of capital to improve the infrastructure at pilgrimage centres; and so on. The cumulative effect of these developments is the slow displacement of the secular from the public sphere by religiosity and obscurantist practices.

More importantly, participation in public events reinforced religious commitment and identity, which in turn generated social demarcation based on religious division and consolidation. The consequence of this division is that religious communities in South Asian countries are witnessing internal ‘religious wars', which are both physical and ideological, though not of the same genre as the religious wars in the past. They do not begin and end with physical confrontation; they are essentially ‘ideological and cultural wars', which continuously exist even when there is no physical confrontation. They are waged by all religions and religious groups, either in aggression or in defence. As a consequence, society in South Asian countries has become deeply divided on the basis of religion. In the process, religion has become the most decisive defining factor.

A growing tendency during the last century among the followers of all religions in South Asia has been the emergence of greater internal solidarity induced by the compulsions of self-defence. The cultural and political penetration by the imperialist interests of the West has led to the closing of ranks among Muslims, the virtues of Islamisation being upheld in the process. A large number of splinter groups emerged among Muslims during this period, representing different shades of response. Christian missionary work, devoid of much of its earlier philanthropic content and focussing more on evangelisation, has resurfaced in poorer countries.

AFP

YOUNGSTERS BURN A Pakistani flag at the Intellectuals Memorial in Dhaka on December 14, 2002, to mark Intellectuals Day. Bangladesh honours intellectuals who were killed on this day in 1971, two days before the end of the liberation war.

Hindu fundamentalism has been striving hard for internal consolidation by incorporating Dalits and Adivasis into its fold. It does not limit its activities within the country but promotes long-distance religious nationalism to bring expatriates within the religious fold. Religious organisations, several of them supported by their respective governments, are engaged in spreading religious consciousness and promoting solidarity. These developments are orchestrated by a network of religious organisations and individuals who use religion for promoting their material interests. Religion has therefore spilled over to civic institutions and has become an important factor in public transactions. Consequently, the social and political consciousness developed in South Asian countries during the colonial and post-colonial periods has fairly strong religious overtones. It drew upon ethnic, religious or caste differences, in most cases harking back to their primordial origins. As such they were either religion- or caste-specific.

After their initial involvement with reform, most of them were engaged in community consolidation. The beginning of identity politics can be traced to the activities of such organisations, which campaigned for the rights of the members of their communities. This was primarily because, given the conditions prevailing then, the path to power and representation in administration was envisioned through community pressure. The caste and religious organisations all over the country, therefore, graduated from efforts at reform to demands of social and political rights. Several historians have argued that the colonial system of enumeration had contributed to the self-perception of caste or religious belonging. That may well be, along with several other factors. But the innumerable histories of caste written during the second half of the 19th century were not only a part of an effort to legitimise a hierarchy in the caste structure but also to proclaim their ethnic identity. In the 20th century, caste consciousness, which either already existed or was generated, was invoked for political mobilisation.

Identity politics in South Asia has drawn upon these tendencies occurring within the religious realm. It has a long history going back to the early phase of colonialism. The search for the cultural sources for national awakening in the context of colonial hegemonisation or oppression invariably reached out to religious traditions, among both Hindus and Muslims. As a result, within the anti-colonial movement, political formations inspired by religion and incorporating the followers of specific religions came into being. The formation of the Muslim League in 1906 and of the Hindu Mahasabha in 1914 paved the way for the institutionalisation of identity politics and the incorporation within it of the followers of respective religions. During the post-colonial period, the influence of religiosity in civil society is reinforced by the nexus between the state and religion. In all countries in the region, the state is implicated in religion, either directly or indirectly. Pakistan, after a brief affair with secularism, chose to be an Islamic state. Bangladesh did the same. In Sri Lanka, Buddhism is the state religion. India has remained a secular state, but the deviations by the apparatuses of the state from the ideals of secularism are very many.

Marginalised groups

In contrast to this, the identity politics of marginalised and oppressed groups is rooted in opposition and resistance. Their marginality defines their identity, and the aim of the politics emerging out of it is more often aimed at inclusion and equality. This genre of identity politics is fundamentally different from the politics of Hindu religious identity. While the latter aims at the hegemony over marginalised groups, the main character of the former is resistance.

Until very recently, the identity of such groups was ignored or effaced by either the influence of dominant ideology or social power. For instance, women were confined to the domestic space, subordinated to the power and authority of the patriarchal ideology, which women themselves had internalised. The early autobiographies of women who participated in public life bear testimony to this paradox. The politics of women's emancipation, therefore, was as much a struggle against patriarchy as against the entrenched patriarchal biases of women themselves. Women not only acquiesced to male authority within the family but also fulfilled the role of its defenders and practitioners. That women also surrendered the agency of their emancipation to the care of the male was an indication of the hegemony the male exercised within the family.

Outside the domestic sphere, women had to depend upon the male to gain sufficient space for the articulation of their ideas and demands. As a result, during the initial phase men played the role of catalysts in women's attempts to break out of the traditional order. Notwithstanding the importance of this support, it proved to be an impediment in realising the quest for equality. What the male championed for and conceded to women during the period of the renaissance and freedom movement was rather limited freedom. It was only when women were able to extricate themselves from the control of the male and emerge as independent players that they were able to gain a modicum of equality. This transition, however, has given rise to politics of women as women, often without sensitivity to their social location.

The most powerful articulation of identity politics has occurred among the members of the lower castes, who were traditionally excluded from mainstream life in society. The emergence of Dalit consciousness can be traced to the period of the renaissance, even if the renaissance mainly addressed the problems faced by the upper castes, except in Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu and Kerala. Dalits suffered a double denial, both material and spiritual. They were excluded from common facilities such as the use of wells in villages or public roads or admission of children in schools. They were forced to live in segregated areas in villages. They did not have access to temples and could not conduct rituals at deaths or births, without the participation of Brahmin priests.

Implicit in these forms of exclusion was the possibility of the formation of an identity, in contrast to the Brahmanical order, which exercised ideological hegemony over the subordinate castes. The Dalit identity, however, was highly fractured because of the existence of several castes within the ranks of Dalits. Jyotiba Phule tried to give them an ideological cohesion through the work of the Satya Shodak Samaj, and B.R. Ambedkar sought to imbibe the necessary political content through agitation for social and political rights. The philosophical basis for unity was advocated by Narayana Guru in Kerala and practical programmes for promoting identity by ‘Periyar' E.V. Ramasamy. However, none of them was an advocate of the continued existence or necessity of caste; what they tried to do was to address the then existing caste consciousness to go beyond castes. In fact, inherent in their conception was a denial of caste, as the only caste they envisioned for mankind was that of humanism.

In complete contrast to this past, not only has caste identity powerfully resurfaced in contemporary India but has also managed to be at the centre stage as a major mobilising force in politics. Most political parties now claim the support of one caste or the other. The caste and religious consciousnesses are both complementary and contradictory. They are complementary as caste identity is invariably located within religious identity. At the same time, caste identity also tends to fracture the monolith of religious identity. The success of the politics of either caste or religious identity would depend upon their complementarity. As a consequence, identity politics in India tries to bring together caste and religious identities in order to ensure wider social support. The effort has not succeeded so far because Hindu identity politics tries to incorporate the caste and tribal identities in its fold, which in actual operation amounts to cultural denial and oppression of Dalits and tribal people. One of the reasons for the failure of the politics of Hindu religious identity has been the incompatibility of its aims with the aspirations of Dalits and Adivasis, without whose support Hindu identity politics cannot muster enough support.

The identities other than caste and religion are increasingly gaining political articulation in the region. Some of them exist only in the margins, struggling for social attention and acceptance; some others surface intermittently with a well-formulated agenda. While the identity of sexual minorities is an example of the former, linguistic and tribal identities are of the latter. All these identities are real and socially constructed, but they cannot culminate in politics unless ignited by a sense of deprivation and marginalisation. That is the reason why all social identities do not necessarily generate their own politics. The existence of identity and its articulation in politics do not have a direct relationship.

The transition of identity into politics is an extremely complex phenomenon, mediated by a variety of factors and the conjunction of several historical forces. In South Asia, its origin can be traced to the mediation of colonialism, which legitimised certain social identities through administrative measures and communitarian conception of society. Religion and caste were indeed social realities in South Asia much before colonialism intervened. But the difference is that caste and religion existed, perhaps more cruelly, during the pre-colonial era, but not casteism and communalism of the order witnessed during the colonial or post-colonial period. The origin and spread of identity politics in South Asian countries can therefore be traced respectively to the legacy of colonialism on the one hand and the cultural backwardness and social obscurantism of a large section of the political class, on the other.

Slow process

The emergence of identity politics has not been a sudden and spontaneous phenomenon but a slow process of evolution. Its growth can be traced to the limitations of renaissance and nationalism, which, given the multi-religious and multicultural character of society, was forced to make a series of compromises with primordial identities. As a result, the society which emerged out of anti-colonial struggles continued to bear the burden of casteism and religiosity. It is a paradox that South Asian countries could not achieve ‘organic' development, and as a result remained culturally backward, despite political advancement. It was in this culturally backward social space that identity politics flourished.

THE HINDU ARCHIVES

L.K. ADVANI on his Somnath Ayodhya rath yatra in 1991, which deepened communal chasms in the country.

The 20th century was witness to the slow erosion of liberal politics and its unmistakable replacement by identity politics in South Asian countries. This change has been most conspicuous in India where religious and caste identities have crept into the political practice of almost every party. Many reasons can be attributed to this fundamental discomfiture of democratic politics. Among them two are most pertinent and decisive: the failure of the education system to provide secular socialisation and the inability of liberal and class politics to subsume primordial and ethnic identities.

Initial socialisation

The beginning of socialisation occurs within the precincts of the family as it imbibes its cultural and social perspectives, which in most cases are drawn from the religion, caste and class it belongs to. The initial socialisation, therefore, is not a matter of choice but is inherited by the circumstances of birth. Much before interaction with the outside world is possible, the family imparts an abiding cultural and social identity which, more often than not, is loaded with religious and caste sensibility. This is because the domestic space, in most cases, is governed by rituals prescribed by religious and caste traditions. The impression thus gained through early socialisation generally persists, as the family as an institution reinforces the virtues of conformity and discourages critical engagement.

An opportunity to overcome the influence of primordial identity thus created by the family, and to come to terms with different social conditions, through both experience and conceptualisation, is inherent in secondary socialisation. The most effective agency of secondary socialisation is education, which creates the space for a person to come into contact with a variety of social realities. This helps the engagement with the complexity of the world and to realise the limitations of the experience gained in the domestic space. The exposure to new conditions could be a startling revelation to many, disturbing their complacence and self-assurance and in turn enabling self-critical introspection.

It was such a transition that the advocates of liberal education, from Ram Mohun Roy to Abul Kalam Azad, had in mind when they advocated modern education. But over the years the impact of liberal education has considerably diminished in social consciousness, particularly of the middle class. This is possibly because of two interconnected phenomena: first, a decline in the secular character of education and, secondly, the increasing hold of religious and caste organisations over educational institutions.

Post-independent India pursued a secular path in education under the leadership of Jawaharlal Nehru and Abul Kalam Azad, and so on, in order to create a modern society. When the governance fell into the hands of communal forces, they tried to undermine the secular character of education in order to create an ideological base for a Hindu state. Apart from this, communal organisations owing allegiance to different religions have been engaged for a long time in running educational institutions that promoted obscurantism and orthodoxy and sought to impart a mental training that militated against critical thinking. In India, education always had a communal tinge, arising out of the legacy of the colonial system; but the recent intervention of the state and the involvement of religious organisations have brought into being a middle class with a communal world view. They form the base of identity politics in contemporary South Asia.

Availability of political space

Another factor that facilitated the growth of identity politics is the availability of political space left open by the inadequate mobilisation of overarching identities that could subsume sectarian identities of caste and religion. The relationship between class identity and primordial identity is pertinent in this context. Inherent in the formation of class consciousness is the possibility of overcoming all other forms of consciousnesses. The relationship between primordial identities and class formation is not characterised by mutual inclusion – caste and religion in class and vice versa – but the former being progressively effaced or undermined by class politics and thus ‘the sack of potatoes' realising their commonality. Unlike caste and religious identities, class identity is acquired through struggles, which help overcome primordial identities. The formation of the class, therefore, involves struggles with primordial identities, which exist in varying degrees in situations in which class formation is weak, ineffective and incomplete. A ‘pure' class consciousness and identity would hardly exist in any society, as the ideological and cultural influence of other identities would inevitably be present. In other words, elements of primordial loyalties will continue to exist and cannot be wished away. It, however, does not mean their primacy.

The manifestation of class identity and politics in itself does not lead to the elimination of the already existing primordial identities. The implication of class identity and politics is that primordial identities are brought under the scanner and their unreality is underlined. Class and community are real in the social life of the people, but there is no community in which class is not present, except perhaps in the very primitive stage of human evolution. In contrast, class transcends communitarian loyalties.

The character of identity politics can hardly be read without taking into account class-community relationship. Given that a community is necessarily an ensemble of classes in which the interests of the dominant class prevail, identity politics does not represent the interest of the community as a whole, as is often claimed, but only of a class within it. Identity politics is therefore anti-democratic, as it does not address the interests of the collective which goes by the name of a community of caste or religion.

Text of the keynote address to a seminar on “Identity Politics in South Asia” conducted by Jamia Millia Islamia in New Delhi, on March 21-23, 2011. The author can be reached at knpanikkar@gmail.com

LEGISLATION

Trial by fire

V. VENKATESANin New Delhi

As the joint drafting committee begins work on the Lokpal Bill, its civil society members face challenges from various quarters.

PTI

Social activists and civil society members of the Lokpal Bill drafting committee, (from left) Kiran Bedi, Swami Agnivesh, Anna Hazare, Prashant Bhushan, Shanti Bhushan, Justice Santosh Hegde and Arvind Kejriwal, after a meeting in New Delhi on April 23.

AS the leader of the five-member civil society group within the 10-member joint drafting committee to prepare the new Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare finds himself in an unenviable position. After his successful agitation for equal participation for civil society in the legislative exercise to create the first Lokpal at the Centre, people expect him to set high standards of probity for his team, even though it will have a short tenure (ending on June 30) and a limited agenda. Allegations casting aspersions on civil society members on the committee, even if they relate to the past, make them defensive and distract them from the committee's task.

Anna Hazare himself was prudent enough to ignore the allegation of financial impropriety against him. The Maharashtra government instituted a commission of inquiry under Justice P.B. Sawant in September 2003 to inquire into allegations of corruption and maladministration against a few State Ministers and Anna Hazare, who had led a campaign against them. The commission's report, submitted on February 22, 2005, concluded: “The expenditure of Rs.2.20 lacs from the funds of the Hind Swaraj Trust [a trust which Hazare runs] for the birthday celebrations of Shri Hajare was clearly illegal and amounted to a corrupt practice” (page 365).

Sections of the media highlighted this in the days after Hazare's recent campaign. But his close confidant, Swami Agnivesh, described this in a television programme as a mistake rather than an instance of corrupt practice; some observers considered it too technical to cast aspersions on Hazare's personal integrity. In 2005, Hazare had challenged the State government to take action on the report, but the government chose to ignore it. Hazare did not offer any fresh explanation on the subject after the recent campaign.

The other civil society members on the drafting committee had a harder time. The presence of former Union Law Minister Shanti Bhushan and his son Prashant Bhushan, also an eminent public interest lawyer, on the committee invited sharp criticism. Many observers questioned whether the civil society component of the committee was inclusive at all and whether the inclusion of both the father and the son in the committee pointed to a dearth of legal talent in the country.

The civil society members of the committee have asked the government to include among its nominees a member from the opposition parties and someone representing Dalits to make it more inclusive. But they were unwilling to accept similar advice and let their own side reflect the diversity of views within civil society on an effective Lokpal Bill.

At a press conference in New Delhi, film-maker Mahesh Bhatt, historian K.N. Panikkar and activist Shabnam Hashmi questioned the selection of non-government members on the committee, claiming it was not a true representation of civil society. They said the government had chosen the easy option by succumbing to Hazare's demands. To this, Arvind Kejriwal, a key member of the Hazare team, claimed that both the Bhushans had played a key role in drafting the Jan Lokpal Bill and were tough negotiators. This was the reason, he added, the government tacitly opposed their inclusion in the committee and wanted the smear campaign against them to succeed.

The campaign against the Bhushans has, by far, been the dirtiest. On April 13, some media organisations received from an anonymous source a CD containing a purported telephonic conversation between the erstwhile Samajwadi Party leader Amar Singh and S.P. chief Mulayam Singh Yadav, and between Mulayam Singh Yadav and Shanti Bhushan. The purport of the conversation was to suggest that Shanti Bhushan had told Mulayam Singh Yadav that Prashant Bhushan could “fix” a particular Supreme Court judge for Rs.4 crore.

Bhushans' defence

In his defence, Prashant Bhushan released the reports from two renowned forensic laboratories, the Hyderabad-based Truth Labs and the United States-based Sound Evidence headed by George Papcun. These reports found that most parts of Mulayam Singh Yadav's speech on the CD were copied from a conversation that had taken place between Amar Singh and Mulayam Singh Yadav in 2006. On the basis of spectrograms, the reports established that there were multiple signs of editing and gaps in Shanti Bhushan's purported speech in the conversation. “Words/phrases have clearly been edited/lifted from many different conversations and stitched/spliced together,” the reports found, according to Prashant Bhushan.

Meanwhile, reports suggested that the Central Forensic Science Laboratory (CFSL) in New Delhi found the CD genuine and without breaks in recording. Prashant Bhushan questioned why the CFSL ignored the reports of Truth Labs and Sound Evidence showing the exact positions of editing signatures and some of the gaps in Shanti Bhushan's speech. In any case, he said, both the CFSL report and a so-called report by a government laboratory describing the CD as genuine were not in the public domain and, therefore, beyond scrutiny.

Shanti Bhushan did not deny that the CD carried his voice. But he added that forensic reports showed that bits and pieces from different conversations appeared to have been spliced together to create his speech. Shanti Bhushan also denied that he had met Amar Singh, as Amar Singh claimed on the CD.

In a case before the Supreme Court, Prashant Bhushan is seeking the public disclosure of Amar Singh's 2006 tapes. He has alleged that Amar Singh, by fabricating the CD involving the Bhushans, has aimed to make the Supreme Court judge concerned recuse himself from hearing the 2G scam case, and the Amar Singh tape case. To substantiate this allegation, Shanti Bhushan has filed a criminal contempt petition in the Supreme Court and sought an independent investigation into the conspiracy behind the fabrication of the CD.

Sections of the media also sought to raise the issue of the allotment of farmland in Noida to Shanti Bhushan and his son, Jayant Bhushan, a senior advocate in the Supreme Court, by the Uttar Pradesh government. The Bhushans have claimed that the land was allotted under a regular scheme floated by Noida. It was for farmland plots of 10,000 sq. metres on which a farmhouse of up to 15,000 square feet was allowed to be constructed. It was not specified as to where in Noida the plots would be allotted. The Bhushans applied for the plots in March 2009. In May 2009, the authorities in Noida called them for an interview to verify the means of finance. In January 2010, the Bhushans received a letter from Noida saying a plot in Sector 165 had been reserved for them and that the allotment letter would be issued to them separately. In January this year, they received the allotment letters, giving the rate as Rs.3,500 per sq m.

Media reports on the transaction insinuated that the Bhushans received the allotment because Jayant Bhushan was arguing the Noida park case against the State government in the Supreme Court, and the allotment was aimed to silence him. On December 3, 2010, the Supreme Court held in this case that the Noida park project was not on a forest area but it imposed certain conditions because of its proximity to the Okhla Bird Sanctuary. One of the conditions was that permanent construction in the park area should not exceed 25 per cent of the total land area. Jayant Bhushan had argued the case in favour of the petitioner, who had challenged the construction of the Rs.650-crore park, citing violation of environmental norms. The court had stayed the construction until the delivery of judgment.

The Bhushans admitted that there were no criteria for the allotment of farmland that could be found either in the advertisement or in the subsequent brochure of the scheme. They said that if the allotments were found to be questionable, they would readily surrender their plots. The Bhushans argued that the Noida park case might be the reason for the delay and the poor location of allotment to them.

Meanwhile, another allegation against the Bhushans pertained to evasion of stamp duty payable by them in the valuation of a property in Allahabad. In 1966, Shanti Bhushan entered into an agreement to purchase a house in Allahabad, where he had grown up, for a consideration of Rs.1 lakh. However, the sale deed could not be executed because the 99-year lease granted by the government in favour of the owner had expired and was pending renewal. When the lease deed was renewed and the property was converted into freehold, the Bhushans demanded execution of the sale deed, which was refused by the owner. Thereafter, a compromise was arrived at between the Bhushans and the owner: the owner agreed to sell a major portion of the property to the Bhushans for Rs.1 lakh, provided that the remaining portion of 4,317.78 square yards (one square yard is nine square feet) was left with the owner to sell independently to others. The sale deed was executed in 2010 on the basis of a mutual agreement between the parties.

On September 29, 2010, two months before the execution of the sale deed, the Bhushans filed a copy of the deed and asked the Allahabad Collector to determine what stamp duty would be payable at the time of execution of the sale deed. Since the Collector did not make any such determination, and the sale deed had to be executed by November 29, 2010, the Bhushans paid the higher of the two methods of duty calculation. Meanwhile, the Bhushans received a notice from the authorities fixing April 28 or May 5 for the finalisation of the stamp duty and mentioning Rs.1.33 crore as the approximate stamp duty payable. The Bhushans insist that it was not a notice for evasion of stamp duty, but an invitation by the Collector to help him to determine the appropriate stamp duty payable. The Bhushans have promised to pay the legally applicable stamp duty.

The notice from the Collector to the Bhushans coincided with the expose of this transaction by Congress general secretary Digvijay Singh, who questioned their continuance in the drafting committee. The Bhushans' rivals in the legal profession also sought their exit from the committee as, in their view, these allegations pointed to serious improprieties. However, the Bhushans' friends in civil society vouched for their integrityand urged them to continue on the committee.

The Karnataka Lokayukta and another civil society member of the drafting committee, Santosh Hegde, also came under attack. Digvijay Singh asked why the State Lokayukta had not been effective in curbing corruption at the highest level in Karnataka. Hegde took it as an accusation of defending the corrupt and contemplated quitting the drafting committee, blaming the political class as a whole for its reluctance to enact a strong Lokpal Bill. However, other civil society members on the committee prevailed on him not to quit. Digvijay Singh later denied that he had accused Hegde of defending the ruling party in Karnataka.

Karnataka Lokayukta

While Hegde was well within his rights to protest against Digvijay Singh's remarks, observers were surprised that he contemplated quitting because of them. After all, Hegde took pains to factually challenge Digvijay's claim of ineffectiveness of the Lokayukta. He said that he had not allowed the State government to refer the complaint against the Chief Minister to an inquiry commission, which would have taken it out of the Lokayukta's jurisdiction, and that the inquiry into the complaint was not yet complete.

The ethical standards that should govern the conduct of civil society members continue to be debated. Hegde indicated that if the allegations against the Bhushans had come out before the composition of the committee, they would not have been nominated. While he did not support the demand for the Bhushans' exit, he himself set a higher moral standard for himself by suggesting that he would have quit if he faced similar allegations after nomination to the committee. Others on the committee, however, felt the Bhushans must continue and that the allegations against them could be probed separately by an independent body. They did not think that the Bhushans would compromise their independence of judgment because of these allegations.

The five civil society members appeared to tide over the challenges to their personal integrity after Anna Hazare and Congress president Sonia Gandhi exchanged letters expressing their support for a strong Lokpal Bill and their opposition to any kind of smear campaign against the committee members. The five members, however, were greeted with substantive criticism of the revised Lokpal Bill, which they circulated to facilitate a nationwide consultation before the second meeting of the committee scheduled on May 2.

The consultation organised by the National Campaign for People's Right to Information (NCPRI) cautioned against relying too much on the proposed Lokpal Bill. Instead, it recommended a basket of measures to address problems of governance including grievance redress and corruption. The Lokpal Bill could only be one of those measures aimed at building and strengthening existing institutions and processes, it said.

Another consultation, held under the banner of Citizens for Public Accountability in the capital, brought out the divergence of views on the Lokpal Bill. The participants, who included two former Chief Justices of India, M.N. Venkatachaliah and J.S. Verma, were critical of the draft Jan Lokpal Bill's provision enabling the Lokpal to investigate complaints against judges of the higher judiciary, especially when the latter would be empowered to probe charges against the Lokpal itself. According to them, the proposed Judicial Standards and Accountability Bill must take care of complaints against the higher judiciary. However, the civil society representatives on the committee (except Anna Hazare) feel that the JSA Bill could take care of the professional misconduct of the judges, while the Lokpal could investigate complaints of criminal misconduct against them. The differences on this are far from resolved.

Besides, the revised Jan Lokpal Bill has elicited intense criticism from some experts on some of its major provisions. The openness with which the committee considers these misgivings will determine how the Bill evolves.

LEGISLATION

History of deception

A.G. NOORANI

The 1985 Lokpal Bill destroyed the raison d'etre of the institution of an ombudsman, but all successive governments copied it.

THE HINDU ARCHIVES

Jayaprakash Narayan. The Lokpal Bill was one of the three planks in the movement launched by him to eradicate corruption.

PUBLIC anger was understandably aroused over the gross delay by Parliament in the last 40 years to enact a Lokpal Bill and with the toothless one that the government sponsored. It is not widely known that the delay was aggravated by deception and fraud in 1985. It was, however, emulated by almost all governments that came later. One does not grudge any of those who rushed to Jantar Mantar to grab a few minutes' fame before TV cameras. Tinsel town, predictably, did not go unrepresented. If the cause had stirred them earlier, their disquiet remained their best preserved secret. One cannot expect Anna Hazare to study – or, for that matter, care for – the nitty-gritty of the law. Some of those who could have known ought to have spoken earlier loud and clear.

The Lokpal Bill was one of the three planks in the movement launched by Jayaprakash Narayan 40 years ago to eradicate corruption. The other two were electoral reforms, designed particularly to end the play of money power, and an effective anti-defection law. JP did not jump into the fray all of a sudden, still less did he resort to theatricals. He studied the problems, deliberated on solutions, and consulted a wide range of persons – lawyers, academics, activists, and so on. He consulted, in particular, the Lokayukta of Maharashtra, Justice S.P. Kotval, who was a former Chief Justice of the Bombay High Court.

JP expounded his views in a seminal article entitled “How to check the canker of corruption” in Everyman's, a weekly he founded, in the issue of September 1, 1973. It was edited by the late Ajit Bhattacharjea. He recalled the recommendation of the Santhanam Committee on Corruption that “[if] a formal allegation is made by any 10 members of Parliament or a legislature in writing addressed to the Prime Minister or Chief Minister, through the Speakers and Chairmen, the Prime Minister or Chief Minister should consider himself obliged, by convention, to refer the allegations for immediate investigations by a committee…”.

He recalled also the Tamil Nadu Public Men Inquiry Act, 1973. Its definitions of “public man” included the Chief Minister, but its definition of “criminal misconduct” was confined to bribery or illicit acquisitions by abuse of power. M.G. Ramachandran was a member of the Joint Select Committee that considered the Bill. But, of course, as we all know the law completely succeeded in banishing the evil of corruption from Tamil Nadu for all time to come. Corruption simply does not exist in Tamil Nadu today.

JP dwelt, next, on a document that had set the ball rolling. “The Administrative Reforms Committee had recommended in October 1966 the institution of the office of a Lokpal at the Centre and of Lokayukta in the States with wide statutory powers. For reasons that are not clear, the Government of India took over 18 months to make up its mind; and it was only on the 9th May 1968 that the Lokpal Bill was first introduced in Parliament. It was passed by the Lok Sabha in August 1969, but it made no further progress owing perhaps to the power struggle that was brewing within the Congress then and that burst out into the open in September 1969.…

“It was only after Indiraji's great electoral victory in 1971 that the Lokpal Bill was re-introduced in the new Parliament on 11th August 1971. Many spectacular Acts have been passed since the victory, such as the Constitutional Amendments Acts, but the Lokpal Bill, in its own way more important than the others, has been languishing until today. This and the other delays and omissions… suggest a deplorable lack of any sense of urgency on the part of the Government of India in dealing with a cancerous disease not only of the body politic but of the nation as a whole.”

Unlike some today, JP knew that no Lokpal could wield the magic wand. He wrote: “Let me not create the impression that the appointment of a Lokpal and Lokayuktas will in itself cure the disease of corruption so rampant among Ministers and civil servants. This is not the place to go into the question, but if the Lokpal Bill and the Maharashtra Ayukta Act, which is claimed to be patterned after the former, were carefully scrutinised, it would be discovered that the action of these vital officers is severely limited and hemmed in by restrictive provisions. It is in many ways a case of giving by one hand and taking away by the other… a fertile and well-known source of corruption at the State level, which embraces MLAs, local party functionaries and even Ministers, is the matter of transfers, postings and promotions of subordinate and higher government servants of all departments. Not only is this a source of corruption, but it also occupies most of the time of the Ministers.”

THE FACSIMILE OF an order issued by the Government of Kerala on the "setting up of an Interim Machinery to enquire into allegations against Public Men".

Anna Hazare, in contrast, asserts that the Lokpal Bill “will put the brakes on corruption in the country and help reduce the gap between the poor and the rich” ( The Hindu, April 17). It is a man of such colossal self-assurance and naivety who leads the movement. Kotval's first Annual Report, for the period from October 25, 1972, to October 24, 1973, lists the crippling restrictions on the Lokayukta's powers.

The interim report of the Administrative Reforms Commission (ARC) on “Problems of Redress of Citizens' Grievances” initiated the discussion in the country. The ARC was headed by Morarji Desai. Its emphasis was on the redress of citizens' grievances for maladministration even if there was no breach of the law. This was based on Scandinavia's Ombudsman, who is essentially a parliamentary institution rather like India's Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG). Speaking to the All India Congress Committee (AICC) in Jaipur on November 3, 1963, Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru said that while the ombudsman system fascinated him, he felt that in a big country like India, the introduction of such a system was beset with difficulties. But then, Nehru was never enamoured of inquiries into charges of corruption, anyway.

Paragraph 25 of the ARC's report said: “The following would be the main features of the institutions of Lokpal and Lokayukta: (a) They should be demonstrably independent and impartial. (b) Their investigations and proceedings should be conducted in private and should be informal in character. (c) Their appointment should, as far as possible, be non-political. (d) Their status should compare with the highest judicial functionaries in the country. (e) They should deal with matters in the discretionary field involving acts of injustice, corruption or favouritism. (f) Their proceedings should not be subject to judicial interference and they should have the maximum latitude and powers in obtaining information relevant to their duties. (g) They should not look forward to any benefit or pecuniary advantage from the executive government.”

Appended to the report was a Draft Bill which covered (clause 7) both, “injustice in consequence of maladministration” and favouritism and corruption.

The British Parliamentary Commission Act, 1967, covered maladministration alone [5.5(1)]. The first concrete step for the appointment of an ombudsman institution in India came with the introduction of the Lokpal Bill in the Lok Sabha on May 9, 1968, to implement the recommendations of the ARC. The Bill was referred to a joint committee and was later passed by the Lok Sabha (August 20, 1969). But while it was pending in the Rajya Sabha, the Lok Sabha was dissolved, and the Bill consequently lapsed. The Bill was again introduced in the Lok Sabha on August 11, 1971. It lapsed on the dissolution of that Lok Sabha, the fifth, in 1977.

A Bill on Lokpal was introduced in the sixth Lok Sabha on July 28, 1977. The report of the joint committee, incorporating certain amendments in the Bill, was placed before the Lok Sabha on January 20, 1978. However, before the Bill could be adopted by Parliament, the Lok Sabha was dissolved, in July 1979, and the Bill lapsed. None was considered by the seventh Lok Sabha elected in 1980.

THE HINDU ARCHIVES

THE LOKPAL BILL, first introduced in Parliament in 1968, was reintroduced after Indira Gandhi came to power in 1971. The Bill came up during the tenures of a succession of Prime Ministers, but most governments that came after Rajiv Gandhi's retained the clause that made the intended legislation a caricature of the institution of ombudsman. Here (from left), Indira Gandhi, Morarji Desai, Rajiv Gandhi.

The format of the two Bills of 1971 and 1977 was abandoned and deformities were injected into the Bill introduced in the Lok Sabha on August 26, 1985. It was withdrawn on November 15, 1988, on specious grounds after the Joint Parliamentary Committee (JPC) which debated it had been sent on a merry-go-round in 23 States at government expense “from Shimla to Trivandrum and from Panjim to Port Blair”. But it was this deformed Bill that was adopted as a model by all successive governments with little noise from any of the ones who made noises at Jantar Mantar.

To the Bills of 1971 (based on the first Bill of 1968) and of 1977 we must now turn. The 1971 Bill empowered the Lokpal to inquire into both a “grievance” and an “allegation”. These terms are of crucial importance, for they constitute the raison d'etre of the Lokpal.

A grievance was defined as a claim by a person that he had “sustained injustice or undue hardship in consequences of maladministration”. The term “allegation” was defined to cover not only “corruption or lack of integrity” but also abuse of public office to secure gain or to cause harm or hardship to another. It included, no less, action motivated by “improper” motives. In sum, the Lokpal was empowered to investigate a large variety of improper acts even if they did not constitute corruption under the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1947.

The 1977 Bill altogether omitted from its scope grievances about maladministration since a separate machinery was contemplated to entertain such complaints. However, it widened the area of the Lokpal's jurisdiction in respect of charges of improper behaviour by defining “misconduct” in the widest terms. To the provisions of the 1971 Bill, in respect of abuse of office and conduct actuated by improper motives, it added two more ingredients which bear recalling.

They are: “if he (the public man) directly or indirectly allows his position as such public man to be taken advantage of by any of his relatives or associates and by reason thereof such relative or associate secures any undue gain or favour to himself or to another person or causes harm or undue hardship to another person (Explanation: for the purposes of this clause, associate in relation to a public man includes any person in whom such public man is interested); or if he fails to act in any case otherwise than in accordance with the norms of integrity and conduct which ought to be followed by the class of public men to which he belongs.” The 1971 Bill excluded the Prime Minister; the 1977 Bill included him.

The 1977 Bill was moved by the Janata Party government, in which Shanti Bhushan was the Law Minister. It was sponsored by Home Minister Charan Singh, who had, as Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, got promulgated on October 21, 1967, the Uttar Pradesh Public Men Inquiries Ordinance. It covered “any imputation of misconduct” against a serving or past Minister, legislator and members of local bodies and so on. Under it, the government would have no power to prevent an investigation or inquiry from being held if required by any person; it would have no hand in the selection of judges; and the investigating agency would be completely insulated from the influence of the government.

The scheme provided that any person could make a complaint of misconduct to the Governor against a present or past holder of any of the offices specified. He would be required to file an affidavit in support of the complaint and deposit a security of Rs.1,000. The Governor would then request the Chief Justice of the High Court to nominate a judge to conduct a preliminary scrutiny and eventually order a fuller one by a commission of inquiry. The judge could even order the Chief Investigator to prosecute the offender.

No Bill in recent history has been so badly mauled by the JPC as the Lokpal Bill of 1977 was. It was headed by Shyam Nandan Mishra, who was to win undying fame later as Foreign Minister. The Bill had defined “misconduct” to include, besides corruption, failure to act in any case otherwise than in accordance with the norms of integrity and conduct which ought to be followed by the class of public men to which he belongs”. The JPC considered this to be “too wide and is, therefore, likely to be amenable to different interpretations”.

This was disingenuous. Section 45 of the Army Act of 1950 makes it an offence for any officer, Junior Commissioned Officer or Warrant Officer, to behave “in a manner unbecoming his position and the character expected of him”. Section 35 of the Advocates Act, 1961, renders an advocate liable to disciplinary proceedings if he has been guilty of “professional or other misconduct”. Also, the JPC felt that since MPs “do not exercise any executive powers they should not be treated at par with other public men exercising such powers”. Therefore, the concept of “misconduct” for them should be different. The report had notes of strong dissent. The Bill lapsed on the dissolution of the Lok Sabha in July 1979. Indira Gandhi had no use for any such law when she returned to power in January 1980. Rajiv Gandhi had a go at it. The Bill that his Law Minister, A.K. Sen, a man for all seasons, moved in the Lok Sabha on August 26, 1985, departed radically from the models of 1971 and 1977 and set up, in effect, a parallel quasi-judicial body with its remit confined solely to the criminal offence of bribery under the Indian Penal Code or the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1947.

The Bill introduced in the Lok Sabha by V.P. Singh's government on December 29, 1989, was an exact replica of the Rajiv Gandhi government's Bill except for two changes. The Prime Minister was explicitly covered, and reference to the IPC and the Prevention of Corruption Act of 1947 was replaced by reference to the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1988.

This destroys the raison d'etre of the institution. It is designed to help people who have been badly treated even if no law is breached. It is meant also to cover abuse of power and misdemeanours or misconduct even if they do not constitute offences under the law. Since courts exist to try offences under the IPC and the Prevention of Corruption Act of 1988, why set up a parallel body?

The sinister purpose behind this appeared in clause 24 of the 1985 Bill, which read thus: “Notwithstanding anything contained in any other law for the time being in force, where on an inquiry in respect of a complaint against a public functionary the Lokpal or the competent authority has held that any allegations made in the complaint have not been proved or substantiated, no prosecution shall lie on any complaint, report, information or otherwise and no court shall take cognisance of any offence on the basis of the same or substantially the same allegations as in the complaint.” In other words, a Lokpal probe, skilfully initiated, would bar prosecution in the courts altogether.

No such provision existed either in the 1971 Bill or in the 1977 Bill. However, it was faithfully copied in the V.P. Singh government Bill as clause 23.

The 1971 Bill covered both grievances in respect of maladministration and allegations of misconduct. The 1977 Bill was confined to “misconduct” alone, albeit defined in modest terms to cover abuse of power and improprieties as well as corruption.

The 1985 Bill omitted grievances of maladministration as well as charges of misconduct and restricted the jurisdiction severely to matters which are for the courts to decide – criminal offences as defined in the IPC and the Prevention of Corruption Act.

Having thus restricted the Lokpal's jurisdiction, the 1985 Bill sought to exclude the criminal courts' jurisdiction as well. And not only if the Lokpal exonerated the Minister but also if, disagreeing with his findings, the Prime Minister chose to exonerate his colleague. For, clause 24 referred to the results of an inquiry by “the Lokpal or the competent authority”. And who was this “competent authority”? Clause 2(a) said it “means the Prime Minister”. The whole thing was a fraud.

Nonetheless, each of the succeeding governments, headed by V.P. Singh, H.D. Deve Gowda, Inder Kumar Gujral and Atal Bihari Vajpayee, sponsored and supported in Parliament a Lokpal Bill which it very well knew to be a caricature of the institution of the ombudsman as it is known in the world over and as was known in this country before 1985. A monstrous fraud was perpetrated on the country in 1985 and perpetuated thereafter.

An ombudsman does not preside over a parallel judiciary to try offences under the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1988. The courts of law take care of that. To confer such a jurisdiction on the Lokpal and oust that of the courts is to confer immunity from the law to men in high office. For, unlike the courts, the Lokpal has no power to award punishment at all. It can do no more than report to a designated superior of the delinquent – the Prime Minister vis-a-vis Union Ministers. Worse still is to confine its jurisdiction to trial of offences and exclude from it just those kinds of cases for which the institution of an ombudsman has been devised and set up for decades the world over; namely, acts which do not constitute offences in law and for which the courts can provide no redress. Maladministration and abuse of power are classic instances of such acts.

The Bills of September 10, 1996 (H.D. Deve Gowda regime), of July 23, 1998 (A.B. Vajpayee regime), and of July 9, 2001 (A.B. Vajpayee regime) all studiously copied Rajiv Gandhi's (or A.K. Sen's) Bill of 1985 and confined the Lokpal's remit to corruption as defined in the Prevention of Corruption Act of 1988. In each case an anaemic Lokpal could do no more than report to the Prime Minister, while ousting the court's jurisdiction effectively by a parallel judiciary of sorts. L.K. Advani, needless to mention, was Deputy Prime Minister in the Vajpayee government.

In glaring contrast, a mere executive order of December 20, 1969, made by the Government of Kerala to set up “an Interim Machinery to enquire into allegations against public men” proved effective. It defined “misconduct” to include any act which is actuated “by improper or corrupt motives”. Judges who sat on commissions of inquiry defined the term “azhimathi” to cover a whole range of improprieties. (The Karnataka Lokayukta Act, 1984, also included in the Lokayukta's remit the failure “to act in accordance with the norms of integrity and conduct which ought to be followed by public servants of the class to which he belongs” [S 2 (2) (d)].

Kerala's Order of 1969 was superseded by the Kerala Public Men (Prevention of Corruption) Act, 1983, the Kerala Public Men's Corruption (Investigations and Inquiries) Act 1987, and finally by the Kerala Lok Ayukta Act, 1999. It covers both lack of integrity and “injustice”. This Lokayukta has the power to order public servants, including the Chief Minister, to vacate office (Section 11) and to initiate a prosecution (Section 12).

If a Lokpal is to be worthwhile, the selected person must (1) have jurisdiction in respect of both maladministration and misconduct; (2) be appointed by a procedure that excludes executive influence and control. The Chief Justice of India and the Leader of the Opposition in the Lok Sabha must be on the selection panel along with the Prime Minister; (3) be a former judge of the Supreme Court or a former Chief Justice of a High Court; (4) have jurisdiction over a wide range of “public men” – the Prime Minister, MPs, senior civil servants, heads of public corporations and national universities, and so on; (5) have an independent investigating agency of his own and not be dependent on the Central Bureau of Investigation; (6) have the power to launch prosecutions himself and order vacating of office; (7) be easily accessible; (8) have a juridical personality. It would be best to amend the Constitution to give him constitutional status comparable to that of the CAG.

LEGISLATION

Democratic war

V.R. KRISHNA IYER

The Lokpal must be an independent body accessible to every citizen on any matter of corruption affecting the purity of public life.

IT is well known that corruption is widely prevalent in India. Time and again, acts of corruption have been brought into the public domain. They violate human rights, undermine the rule of law, distort the development process and disempower the Indian state. While there are laws against corruption in India, there exists a wide gap between the law in the books and the law in practice. Therefore, a comprehensive law providing for forfeiture of illegally acquired property, in India and abroad, of public servants is the need of the hour.

The Jan Lokpal should have independence in its functioning. It must have the power to inquire into, decide and forfeit illegally acquired property of public servants, their relatives, associates, name lenders, and so on. For discharging the onerous duties of the Lokpal under the said enactment, that office must be given wide powers, including the power to call even from Swiss banks details of funds deposited by public servants. Power should be conferred on it to attach and confiscate movable and immovable property even before a final decision is taken. There must also be a provision stating that all transfers of illegally acquired property shall be void if such transfer is effected after the issue of notice of forfeiture. The accused public servant should be burdened with the duty to prove that all the assets he possessed are legally acquired wealth.

The Lokpal should be headed by a former judge of the Supreme Court with impeccable integrity. There has to be a provision for appeal to the Supreme Court.

The Lokpal will be an independent body accessible to every citizen on any matter of corruption affecting the purity of public life and will act only according to its chaste conscience. The members of the Lokpal body can act without fear or favour or affection or ill will of anyone in India, be he ever so high. Its jurisdiction will extend to investigate the proceedings of the Prime Minister, the President or other public authority or public body functioning in a manner affecting public interest, public life or work. The Lokpal cannot be changed by the government and can be replaced only by resignation or a unanimous decision of Parliament, Prime Minister and President.

Such a body will be supreme in its operations and its guidance will extend over the executive, legislative and judicative wings of government. The Lokpal and other members of the body will be selected by an independent authority in India and they can be prosecuted or subject to any court's jurisdiction only on a specific motion for that purpose in Parliament or the State Assemblies and approved by a two-thirds majority of each House.

On the other hand, the Lokpal, acting on the basis of a majority, can quash any decision or order of any authority that is found delinquent after a full and fair inquiry.

India has seen many avatars of corruption – the Bofors scandal, the fodder scam, the 2G spectrum allocation scam, the swindle in the Commonwealth Games preparations, and so on. The people of the country strongly believe that toothless pieces of legislation made by legislatures are the reason why corrupt people go scot free. The people also seem to have lost belief in the judicial system, which has been able to bring to justice only a few of the corruption-accused and that too after a minimum of 10 years.

The people have realised that their elected representatives do not do any legislative work and have started pointing to acts of corruption through the strong media. The people's struggle for independence from the British has now turned into a democratic war against corruption.

How can one expect a Prime Minister who does not exercise his franchise to wipe the tears of the aam aadmi who is suffering on account of rampant corruption? Development is now seen to be synonymous with corruption. To make the legislature do its duty, the people, who believe in a system of good governance, have turned to weapons of non-violence, such as satyagraha. For development to happen, India first needs independence from corruption.

Power is tempered with accountability; sans investigation, power is tower. This principle has been accepted in the Bill now introduced. But the supreme functions vested in this new instrument must be free from state control. Or else it becomes another tool of torture in the hands of the executive – a remedy aggravating the malady.

Prashant Bhushan has made a sound critique of the Bill. The larger the power, the more responsible is the accountability, lest the instrument destroy democracy. Today, if the judiciary delivers an authoritarian judgment, there is none to correct it nor is it accountable to any agency or authority. This makes judges a body of dictators.

The appointment of judges and the critique and correction of their fiats are vital. What is provided on this behalf is insignificant. Besides, access to correct the blunders of this arbitrary body, to make its selection democratic and transparent and its performance subject to a democratic organ has not been given due consideration.

Under the guise of control over judicial and other instruments, we cannot create a royalty above all. That is, the choice is between fascism and a self-created authoritarian Grand Jury. The verdict of the jury for misbehaviour of the judiciary and executive authority will make the whole system self-contained and democratic without totalitarian bias.

Judges are not jungle creatures but maintain standards of conduct. During the days when J.S. Verma was the Chief Justice of India, an informal code of conduct was evolved, which commanded the concurrence of the judges of the High Court and the Supreme Court. This code of conduct, to have a binding force, must be incorporated in the Constitution itself and made enforceable. Thus, the standards of conduct of judges abhor corruption, misuse of power or other oblique behaviour. They can be enforced by the Grand Jury. The delinquent conduct not only of the judiciary but of all public authorities must be dealt with by the Grand Jury.

This steering body with final authority must be selected by a commission for appointment and performance. No longer confined to the judiciary but including every instrument that enjoys public power, the Grand Jury will sit for a period of 10 years and can be removed for misconduct only by the paramount power of the two Houses of Parliament. These are matters that have to be refined by the draftsman and presented to Parliament. These are rough ideas and have to be debated by Parliament and approved with a two-thirds majority. The whole process is cumbersome, but when complicated problems face a nation, the process has to be complicated. Fiat Justitia Ruat Caelum (Let justice be done though the heavens fall).

Two fundamentals

Two fundamentals that make the Grand Jury itself accountable may be indicated briefly. Public power becomes a terror unless it is accountable to the nation and makes itself accessible to the littlest Indian who has a grievance of corruption or improper behaviour justifying an inquiry into the conduct of the judges implicated. In principle, access to every citizen and accountability to ‘We, the People of India' is accepted in the Lokpal Bill. I have suggested the creation of a basic authority with supreme powers. If both Houses of Parliament, each with two-thirds majority, have the power to appoint and to dismiss, surely it will be a grand wonder of paramount power.

Modifications and refinements may be necessary in what I have said. A national debate may bring out flaws, and faults and failings may be disclosed and corrected at the final stage. Egregious errors cannot be avoided in advance. Only when the nation debates the issue latent errors will become patent.

It is my conviction, as I have repeated several times, that an appointments commission should be set up with transparency and opportunity for the public to speak up. When this article gains national circulation, new thought will surface and correction may still be possible. A performance commission also may be necessary. Perhaps, it is good to remember Edmund Burke's observations: “Among a people generally corrupt, liberty cannot long exist.”

The Grand Jury I envision will be a powerful body, itself accountable to the people through Parliament, and its processes will be transparent and progressive. Glasnost and Perestroika are principles that apply to all instruments where state power is vested. After all, the greater the power, the more dangerous is the abuse. It is a fact that the former Chief Justice of India has been accused of corruption, and yet the Prime Minister has kept silent. While I have demanded power in Parliament even against the Grand Jury, that is because “in all forms of government people is the legislator”.

The former Chief Justice of India with grave aspersions against him is silent and the Prime Minister and Parliament are keeping guilty silence. But an event of corruption has happened, upon which it is difficult to speak and impossible to be silent. Dear Prime Minister, still I hold you as a statesman and straightforward repository of power. Parliamentarians, remember your duty to the nation. Speak up against corruption. Silence is grave guilt where it is your duty to speak on the side of the nation.

Dear Prime Minister, I still have great hopes from you. Act now and make the judiciary a credible instrument beyond suspicion, beyond delinquency. Manmohan Singh, you are the guardian of democracy for the nonce. Therefore, I cite Swami Vivekananda to impress upon you the basics of democracy and godism:

“Feel, my children, feel; feel for the poor, the ignorant, the downtrodden; feel till the heart stops and the brain reels and you think you will go mad…. I do not believe in a God, who cannot give me bread here, giving me eternal bliss in heaven!”

COLUMN

Public or private?

BHASKAR GHOSE

In the private vs public debate, the joint family system may have lessons to offer in terms of subordinating personal interests to those of the larger unit.

SUSHIL KUMAR VERMA

A DELHI TRANSPORT Corporation bus during rush hour. A file picture.

IN Delhi, as in some of the other cities in the country, the bus service is run, at least in part, by the public authorities. Until about a couple of years ago, the image of the Delhi bus was one of a decrepit, scarred, noisy vehicle, which more often than not was found stationary on the side of a road; usually it was festooned with leaves from a nearby tree, the generally accepted sign – for inexplicable reasons – that it was out of action. Inside the buses that moved, getting to sit was an option one rarely got. It was usual to hang on to the overhead rail, if one could get to it, or to the back of a seat; occasionally, one did get to sit.

Today that image has begun to change. There are still some of the old, rickety, scratched buses – actually built locally on truck chassis – on the roads, but one sees more and more of the low, sleek green or red buses that came in ones and twos before the Commonwealth Games, now seen in large numbers. These buses are easy to get into and out of, and while they can be crowded, one has the option of waiting for the next bus.

And there is, now, the Metro, sleek, air-conditioned, smooth and usually punctual – of late, there have been several instances of trains running late for whatever reason.

Private buses still exist, though. These horrors are the remaining Blue Line buses, which have in their time killed, maimed or otherwise injured thousands of people in their frenzied efforts to pack in as many passengers as possible and put in as many trips as they can even if that meant driving at murderously high speeds. They were, and are, dented, scratched, hard to climb into and dangerous to get off, given their steep and often skewed steps. True mongrels of the streets – flea-bitten, mange-ridden and aggressive.

Behind the difference between the Delhi Transport Corporation (DTC) buses and the Blue Line buses are two entirely different policies that, quite literally, drive them. One seeks to provide, like the Metro, a service to citizens, enabling them to move around the city; perhaps, the Metro has an added motivation, that of earning enough to be able to repay the enormous amounts spent on setting up the system. The Blue Line owners seek to earn as much as they can from bus services they see as an investment of money, with as little spent on overheads as possible. Which is why they are being driven off the streets, which is why they are going to court to stay on the streets. It is simply a matter of being able to earn money.

The new airport in Delhi has been set up with exactly the same intentions: to earn as much money as possible, not just to repay the amounts spent on constructing it but to get the owners handsome profits. But consider what they give the travellers who use it – thousands and thousands of them – both domestic and international: a world-class airport that ranks among the top four in Asia and among the best in the world, toilets that are sparkling clean, clean wide seats in the waiting lounge, spacious passages and corridors up to the departure gates with “travelators” to speed one onwards to those gates and to bring one to the baggage claim areas on the way in.

Compare that with the mess that is the airport in Chennai. It is being built, or rebuilt, forever from the looks of it. For years now, that airport has been under construction. The pace of rebuilding is not just slow but trance-like. Occasionally, one can see a worker dreamily moving something from one point to another. Meanwhile, passengers, especially those arriving with families, have to trudge down an excessively long passage, usually dirty, with splotches of mud on the shiny new surfaces that no one cares to remove, to emerge at a narrow walkway casually covered from the burning sun or from rain, to a chaotic mess of cars and buses which ensures that your arrival in the usually restful city of Chennai begins with a traumatic experience – part physical effort, part exasperation and anger, and part sheer terror.

The Delhi airport has been built in just about three years by a private consortium; the Chennai airport is being rebuilt by the Airports Authority of India (AAI), a public sector organisation. One would logically assume that the motivation behind rebuilding Chennai airport is to provide travellers with better amenities and a less stressful way of starting or ending a journey, especially now that more and more people are travelling by air. That motivation, as in other public sector organisations, is lost in the private ambitions of its officials to get higher posts, higher pay, more amenities, and better perquisites. In fact, they are the ones who would stop work and subject ordinary travellers to frightful ordeals just to get some personal comforts.

How, one wonders, can these two opposed mindsets coexist? There are publicly owned and operated services, such as the bus service and Metro in Delhi, that are modern, practical and provide a service in the true sense of the term, and there are the others such as the AAI, whose messy, disgracefully slow rebuilding of Chennai airport is done without a thought to the ordeal of passengers, passengers who pay for service and do not get anything out of the goodness of the AAI's heart.

Then there are the rapacious, privately owned Blue Line services in Delhi whose private owners are concerned only with what they can make, completely indifferent to the travails of the passengers and to the lives of those they kill while keeping to the schedules that bring in their money.

Two kinds of thinking

Clearly two kinds of thinking work here; or perhaps one should call them ideologies, except that the word has been corrupted by being used in ways it never should have been. In one, private persons form organisations to provide people some kind of service – one has talked about transport, but it could just as easily apply to medical services – and ensure that, in exchange for money, people get service that is fully worth that money. This sits beside the ideology of taking money for a service and then providing a dreadful parody of the service.

On the other side, there are public authorities who believe taxpayers' money must be used to provide people with services that are truly worthwhile, and there are other public authorities who could not care less just so long as they get their salaries and are able to lobby for better postings and also, in some cases, make some money on the side.

Finally, it is a question of people, and while that is obvious enough, what is surprising is that even in the fractious and composite society such as the one we live in, the notion of a society nears a breaking point, where it shatters into individuals looking out for themselves. It is not the systematic destruction of a collective self-esteem that we often blame the former colonial rulers for; this present generation has grown up many years after the colonial rulers left. One can only assume that it is a consequence to the break-up of something that was once a cornerstone of Indian society in all parts of the country, the joint family.

It had its drawbacks, true enough, and many have been the Western-educated scholars and experts and analysts and policymakers who have denigrated it as being antiquated, repressive and everything else that is not postmodern and futuristic. But it was a unit that held persons together, that conditioned persons to subordinate personal interests to those of the larger unit. The notion of a “society” then became something tangible and enduring. And in such a situation personal greed and acquisitiveness found place only rarely and usually under extraordinary circumstances.

But we have let that crumble away; we have placed great emphasis on the “nuclear” family, which is on ourselves, or personal interests. Once that becomes prime, the concept of suddenly subordinating all that to the good of a separate entity called the “public” is alien, inevitably. If we are able to pay the price, then we deserve what we have now and must confront and live with the AAIs and their ways, with the Blue Line services and, also in some cases, with the benefits – Delhi's privately run airport and publicly run bus and Metro services. And we will see “society” develop in that pear-shaped fashion. We deserve no less, nor any better.

Congress, BJP leaders held in U.P.

Atiq Khan

Ban orders re-imposed at Bhatta-Parsaul

LUCKNOW: Several Congress and BJP leaders were arrested in western Uttar Pradesh as the protest against the recent violence in Bhatta-Parsaul villages in Greater Noida intensified on Thursday. Rajnath Singh and Arun Jaitley of the BJP were among them.

Many Congress workers were injured when the police lathicharged them at several places, including in Lucknow, to foil their attempts to block traffic to condemn the arrest on Wednesday night of party general secretary Rahul Gandhi at Bhatta-Parsaul.

The Amethi MP was released at around 1.30 a.m. on Thursday.Lok Janshakti Party leader Ram Vilas Paswan, social activist Medha Patkar and Haryana Chief Minister Bhupinder Singh Hooda's son Dipankar Hooda were among the other leaders arrested as they tried to proceed to Bhatta-Parsaul, where ban orders under Section 144 were re-imposed. Bhartiya Kisan Union leader Mahendra Singh Tikait was detained in Meerut.

The former BJP president and Ghaziabad MP, Rajnath Singh, Leader of the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha Arun Jaitley and senior leader Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi were arrested in Ghaziabad after they staged a dharna at Ambedkar Park. They were released later.

The BJP will stage a dharna in all district headquarters on Friday to protest the alleged exploitation of farmers by the Mayawati regime, and to condemn corruption, party vice-president Vinay Katiyar said at a press conference here.

Special Director-General of Police (Law and Order) Brij Lal said Ms. Patkar had earlier visited Bhatta-Parsaul and was stopped when she tried to visit the villages again on Thursday. Mr. Hooda, bound for Bhatta-Parsaul from Palwal in a cavalcade of 40 vehicles, was stopped on the Gautam Buddha Nagar (Noida)-Aligarh border and asked to return. About 300 Bhartiya Kisan Union workers held a meeting at Achcheyja near the Dankaur railway station in Greater Noida. About half-a-dozen of them went to Bhatta-Parsaul and then returned.

A Home Department spokesman said life was not disrupted as a result of the Congress' ‘chakka jam.' Home Secretary Deepak Kumar said 135 Congress workers, MPs and MLAs were arrested on Thursday. Congress MP from Haryana Virendra Singh and MLA from Delhi Anil Chaudhary were arrested in Ghaziabad, Congress Legislature Party leader Pramod Tiwari in Allahabad, Sanjay Singh, MP, in Sultanpur and legislators Naseeb Pathan and Vinod Chaturvedi in Mainpuri.

In Lucknow, where the Congressmen staged a dharna near the Chief Minister's office, Pradesh Congress Committee president Rita Bahuguna Joshi, Lucknow West MLA Shyam Kishore Shukla and other workers were arrested. The police used force to disperse the agitating workers.

The arrest of Mr. Gandhi came after hectic parleys between Chief Minister Mayawati and her officials and some anxious moments in government circles.

This was evident from the fact that a press conference was addressed by Cabinet Secretary Shashank Shekhar Singh, on behalf of the Chief Minister, midnight on Wednesday after Mr. Gandhi was arrested.

Mr. Singh said the Congress had sought permission for a public meeting at Bhatta-Parsaul for Thursday, but the district administration re-imposed the ban orders in “public interest.”

“When you have constituted HLC, you don't place charge sheet before it. We are surprised”

Charge sheet filed before special judge will be subject to further directions of Supreme Court

New Delhi: The Supreme Court has pulled up the Enforcement Directorate for filing a charge sheet against the Pune-based stud farm owner, Hasan Ali Khan, in a money laundering case without placing it for scrutiny by the High-Level Committee (HLC) constituted by the Centre.

A Bench of Justices B. Sudershan Reddy and S. S. Nijjar faulted the ED also for not informing the court in advance of the filing of the charge sheet in its May 4 status report. Taking a serious view of this lapse, the Bench said any order passed by the special judge, Mumbai, on the charge sheet would be subject to its further directions.

On May 4, the Bench reserved verdict on the petitions filed by the former Union Law Minister, Ram Jethmalani, and others on setting up of a special investigation team (SIT) to track black money cases, even as it was argued that the HLC, set up on April 22, could not be effective.

On Thursday, when Solicitor-General (SG) Gopal Subramaniam gave his written submissions in the case, Justice Reddy asked whether the charge sheet filed against Hasan Ali on May 6 was placed before the HLC. When the SG replied, “certain transactions remained incomplete and that was why it was not mentioned” Justice Reddy said: “We must express our reservations over this. Tell us whether this charge sheet was scrutinised by the HLC appointed by your own government.”

Surprising

When the SG answered in the negative, Justice Reddy said: “We thought that somebody should look into the charge sheet. You don't want us to have a mechanism. When you have constituted a HLC, you don't place the charge sheet before it. We are surprised. You have suggested a mechanism but yet the charge sheet has not been placed before the HLC.”

Justice Reddy told the SG: “We heard the matter on May 4, but there was no mention in the status report that the charge sheet was ready and it was to be filed on May 6. [However] it is obvious that you had the charge sheet on May 4 and chose not to inform us. Why it was not mentioned that the charge sheet is to be filed? Why is it that we were not informed that investigation is complete against Hasan Ali?”

Senior counsel Anil Divan, appearing for the petitioners, said the HLC was not even aware of the charge sheet being filed, and urged the court to suspend the officer concerned for not placing it before the committee.

The SG assured the court that the charge sheet would be scrutinised by the HLC before further orders were passed by the special judge.

Mr. Divan expressed an apprehension that the special judge might not take cognisance of this charge sheet if it was inadequate and sought a direction to restrain him from taking further steps on the charge sheet.

In a brief order, the Bench clarified that the charge sheet filed before the special judge would be subject to further directions issued by this court. The Bench directed that a copy of the 900-page charge sheet be supplied to the petitioner's counsel in 10 days.

Elaborate arrangements made for the process which will decide the fate of 6,679 candidates

NEW DELHI: The Election Commission has made elaborate arrangements for the counting of votes polled in the Assembly elections in Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Assam, West Bengal and the Union Territory of Puducherry, and in the by-elections held for the Kadapa Lok Sabha and Pulivendula Assembly constituencies in Andhra Pradesh. The polls were held between April 4 and May 10.

Within the first few hours of counting, the trend is likely to be out. The process, scheduled to begin at 8 a.m. before the watchful eyes of the Commission's 701 observers and agents of the political parties, will decide the fate of 6,679 candidates who contested in the mini-general elections. About 14.16 crore voters (nearly 20 per cent of the total electors in India) participated in the elections in the four States and Puducherry.

Officials have to count votes recorded on 2,00,157 electronic voting machines. First, they will take up counting of postal ballots cast by services voters.

Commission sources said altogether 43,982 counting personnel will be involved in the job. To ensure that everything goes well and peacefully, a huge posse of security personnel, including 177 companies of the Central police forces, has been deployed.

Altogether, there will be 839 counting halls at 294 places in the four States and Puducherry.

Websites

To enable people to know the trends and results, the Commission will upload the particulars after 8 a.m. on the websites : eciresults.nic.in and eciresults.ap.nic.in

West Bengal has a 294-member Assembly, Tamil Nadu 234, Kerala 140, Assam 126, while in Puducherry the Assembly's strength is 30.

The entire counting process will be videographed and also recorded through web cameras and transmitted to the headquarters online to ensure transparency.

Two additional micro-observers will be deployed along with the Observer. While one micro-observer will watch data entry in the computer, the other will tally the hardcopy (printout) from the computer with the original 17C part B received from the counting table.

The Observer and the Returning Officer have been asked to sign the compiled figures after verification. The results will be declared only after clearance from the Commission.

Allahabad High Court sets aside acquisition of land

ALLAHABAD: In a major embarrassment to the Mayawati government in Uttar Pradesh, the Allahabad High Court on Thursday set aside notifications issued for acquisition of more than 100 hectares of land in Gautam Buddh Nagar district for “planned industrial development” in Greater Noida.

A Division Bench comprising Justice Sunil Ambawani and Justice Kashi Nath Pandey, while allowing several writ petitions filed by residents of Shahberi village in the district, said the entire action of acquiring the land was a “colourable exercise of powers” and ordered return of the land to their owners.

The Bench set aside two notifications issued by the State government on 10.06.2009 and 09.11.2009 for acquiring the land.

In the notification dated 10.06.2009, the State government had proposed “to acquire a total area of 156.93 hectares of land in the village,” while the one dated 09.11.2009, published in the official gazette, had “declared the acquisition of land.”

“The Greater Noida Industrial Development Authority [GNOIDA] was fully aware and was planning to use the land in village Shahberi and neighbouring villages for multi-storey housing complexes to be developed by builders on relaxed conditions.”

The court noted with concern “that on one hand, a request was made for acquiring the land for public purpose for planned industrial development, and on the other hand, a few days before the proposals were put up before the State government for issuing notification [dated 09.11.2009]... the GNOIDA, without informing the State government, held the Board's meeting for converting the land use for residential purposes to lease off the land to builders for housing complexes for earning profits.”

“The land is proposed to be acquired at the rate of about Rs.850 a square metre and to be given, within a month, to the builders at Rs.10,000 per square metre, and that too on payment of 5 per cent of the price, on allotment,” the court said.

Quashing the notifications issued by the government and “all consequential actions taken by GNOIDA,” the court ordered “the respondents will hand over the possession of the land back to the land owners.” — PTI

SIT member seeks protection against departmental action

Manas Dasgupta

He is investigating Ishrat encounter case

AHMEDABAD: Gujarat cadre IPS officer Satish Verma, who is a member of the Special Investigation Team probing the alleged fake encounter killing of Ishrat Jahan, on Wednesday sought court protection against any likely action against him by the State government.

The officer, who allegedly delayed the arrest of a man accused in an old case — the Porbandar RDX case — and apprehensive of a possible departmental inquiry following a recent order of the Gujarat High Court, moved the plea for a review and recall of its earlier order.

Mr. Verma, an officer of the rank of Inspector-General of Police, expressed the apprehension that the government might use the High Court order as a pretext for acting against him. For, he was investigating the high-profile Ishrat case as part of the High Court-appointed SIT. He earlier sought court permission to register a fresh first information report on the ground that the police encounter could possibly be a fake one.

Even as Mr. Verma was investigating the Ishrat case, the Porbandar RDX case was being pursued against him. He and two others — another IPS officer Atul Karval and inspector Sukhdevsinh Zala — were facing allegations that they had let off Sattar Maulana, a key accused in the Gosabara arms landing case, when they were posted in Porbandar in 1993. Part of the RDX consignment, which landed at Gosabara near Porbandar, was later used in the Mumbai serial blasts in 1993.

On April 28, this year, a Bench of Chief Justice S. J. Mukhopadhyaya and Justice J. B. Pardiwala ordered the government to act on the report prepared by Pramod Kumar, Additional Director-General of Police (administration), on the roles of the three police officials in the Gosabara case.

The government entrusted the task to Mr. Kumar following a Public Interest Litigation petition filed by practising advocate Yatin Oza, who is also a former BJP MLA, seeking action against the three officers as they allegedly acted against national integrity and security.

In the plea filed on Wednesday, Mr. Verma urged the court to restrain the government from taking any decision prejudicial to him. He blamed the government also for changing its stand on the issue. The petitioner pointed out that when Mr. Oza filed the plea before the High Court in 2005 and subsequently an appeal in the Supreme Court, the government took a clear stand that the petition was filed not in the public interest but of “personal vengeance.” However, now the state government was silent on the issue.

The petition is likely to come up for hearing on Thursday.

Meanwhile, Additional Chief Secretary (Home) Balwant Singh tendered an “unconditional and unreserved apology” to the court for delay in transferring three police officers who it felt could have influenced the Ishrat case investigation.

A Division Bench of Justices Jayant Patel and Abhilasha Kumari earlier asked him to explain why contempt proceedings should not be initiated against him for not complying with the court order promptly in transferring the three officers, who could have tried to intimidate witnesses.

In his affidavit, Mr. Singh said the delay was mainly because the Home Minister was busy with the budget session of the Assembly as well as his and the Minister's tight schedules in making security arrangements for the World Cup cricket matches held in the State.

Allahabad High Court sets aside acquisition of land

ALLAHABAD: In a major embarrassment to the Mayawati government in Uttar Pradesh, the Allahabad High Court on Thursday set aside notifications issued for acquisition of more than 100 hectares of land in Gautam Buddh Nagar district for “planned industrial development” in Greater Noida.

A Division Bench comprising Justice Sunil Ambawani and Justice Kashi Nath Pandey, while allowing several writ petitions filed by residents of Shahberi village in the district, said the entire action of acquiring the land was a “colourable exercise of powers” and ordered return of the land to their owners.

The Bench set aside two notifications issued by the State government on 10.06.2009 and 09.11.2009 for acquiring the land.

In the notification dated 10.06.2009, the State government had proposed “to acquire a total area of 156.93 hectares of land in the village,” while the one dated 09.11.2009, published in the official gazette, had “declared the acquisition of land.”

“The Greater Noida Industrial Development Authority [GNOIDA] was fully aware and was planning to use the land in village Shahberi and neighbouring villages for multi-storey housing complexes to be developed by builders on relaxed conditions.”

The court noted with concern “that on one hand, a request was made for acquiring the land for public purpose for planned industrial development, and on the other hand, a few days before the proposals were put up before the State government for issuing notification [dated 09.11.2009]... the GNOIDA, without informing the State government, held the Board's meeting for converting the land use for residential purposes to lease off the land to builders for housing complexes for earning profits.”

“The land is proposed to be acquired at the rate of about Rs.850 a square metre and to be given, within a month, to the builders at Rs.10,000 per square metre, and that too on payment of 5 per cent of the price, on allotment,” the court said.

Quashing the notifications issued by the government and “all consequential actions taken by GNOIDA,” the court ordered “the respondents will hand over the possession of the land back to the land owners.” — PTI

It was my voice, but the CDs were doctored, says Amar Singh

Gargi Parsai

NEW DELHI: While claiming that the CDs containing his purported phone conversations with politicians, bureaucrats, Bollywood stars and corporate bigwigs were “doctored,” the former Samajwadi Party leader Amar Singh, however, said he would not initiate any action against Reliance Infocomm — service provider — which tapped his phone for a year on the basis of a forged authorisation letter.

“Why should I act against the phone company? They do not have the wherewithal to investigate. It is the CBI and the government which can investigate. The apex court should have directed the CBI and law enforcing agencies to find out at whose behest the authorisation letter was written,” Mr. Singh said in his reaction to Wednesday's court order lifting the interim gag order on making the tapes public.

The Supreme Court had said Mr. Singh, if so advised, might initiate proceedings against the service provider. Observing that he had “prevaricated” and had not come with “clean hands,” it gave him no relief on his prayer for a judicial enquiry into the matter and guidelines on broadcasting or publishing such conversations.

Addressing a press conference here on Thursday, Mr. Singh said although his voice in the CDs was genuine, “like the plea taken by [lawyers] Shanti [Bhushan] and Prashant Bhushan in the matter of a CD featuring the former, I also say that the CDs of my phone conversations are a spliced, cut and paste job.” Mr. Prashant Bhushan was the amicus curiae in the case.

Mr. Singh claimed he had not approached the court for a gag order. “The then Chief Justice of India Y.K. Sabharwal had on his own, in the interest of privacy of an individual, given an interim order banning the tapes from being published or telecast by the media. Now another Bench has lifted the gag order. Whether that Bench was correct or this, I cannot comment.”

Even as he said he was “happy and satisfied” with the court's order, Mr. Singh criticised the court for its observations that he was not entitled to be heard on the merits of his case as he had “prevaricated”' and taken “inconsistent positions.”

Suspecting that the Congress was behind the phone tapping, Mr. Singh had named party president Sonia Gandhi a respondent (no. 7) in the matter. However, when he learnt that the tapping was done on a “farzi” (fraudulent) authorisation, he withdrew his allegations against her. This is one of the inconsistencies the court frowned on.

On the contents of the CDs featuring him, Mr. Singh said he was a “two-in-one” person — an industrialist and politician. “I can have personal talks with other industrialists on business. As [the then] Chairman of the Uttar Pradesh Development Council I took no decisions. I only advised. I had the power of the tongue but no power to take decisions. Even the Prime Minister has advisory councils which have given suggestions. It is up to the person in a constitutional position to take decisions.”

To pointed questions on specific contents of the CDs, he said he did not remember.

Holy Hindu Cow! What Now: Sid Harth

WASHINGTON—A son of Osama bin Laden released a letter Tuesday accusing the U.S. of violating international law in the military operation that killed the al Qaeda leader.

The letter from Omar bin Laden, purporting to be on behalf of other family members, was reported by the New York Times. It cites the U.S. government’s reports that bin Laden was unarmed but was killed by a team of Navy SEALs during a May 2 raid at a compound in Pakistan. The letter said the U.S. should have arrested bin Laden and put him on trial as was done with Iraq’s Saddam Hussein and Serbia’s Slobodan Milosevic.

“If he has been summarily executed then we question the propriety of such assassination where not only international law has been blatantly violated” but also U.S. laws guaranteeing presumption of innocence anda fair trial, the letter says. “We maintain that arbitrary killing is not a solution to political problems.”

The younger bin Laden couldn’t be reached. The Times said it was provided a copy by Jean Sasson, a U.S. author who wrote a 2009 book with Omar bin Laden. Ms. Sasson didn’t immediately comment.

Omar bin Laden describes himself as the fourth eldest son of the al Qaeda leader and has said in news interviews that he spent time at al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan. In the interviews, he has distanced himself from terror attacks carried out against civilians.

The White House has said the military raid was conducted legally. U.S. officials said Osama bin Laden didn’t try to surrender.

Benjamin Wittes, senior fellow and legal expert at the Brookings Institution, said the U.S.’s explanation of events indicates the killing was carried out legally.

“It is lawful to target the enemy in a war. It is lawful to target the enemy even if he is unarmed,” Mr. Wittes said. “Your only obligation is to protect that person if he completes a surrender. There’s no suggestion that Osama bin Laden even tried to surrender, much less complete a surrender.”

wanna see any of you have guts to call him junior to his face…….all you all do is hide behind this comment board and talk BS about him. U SCARED?????HUH 1 Recommendation

6 minutes ago William Clark replied:

Are you talking about that dick Omar bin Laden? 2 Recommendations

4 minutes ago ABEL HAFIZ replied:

there u go again…..HAHAHAHAHA

2 minutes ago Kiranpal Sohi replied:

this is better than ‘Desperate Housewives’. lol

13 minutes ago Brad Schwardt wrote:

How dare the WSJ print this article. Whose side are they on?

I don’t care if they are just “reporting the news”. This is not worthy of a supposedly elite publication like the WSJ. If I wanted garbage like this in my newspaper I would go someplace else.

Hey Omar, watch Little Nicky. Especially the part where Adam Sandler shows us what Hitler does in hell. 1 Recommendation

10 minutes ago Bill George wrote:

Dear Omar: I would like to give you a piece of good advice. Before you cross the street be very careful to look both ways and walk with extreme care. Accidents do happen, and who can be blamed?

And, another piece of advice, you might want to hire more bodyguards and hire a couple of reliable food tasters. And, maybe you should also hire a good psychiatrist who understands that sometimes raging paranoia is not your irrational response to the hatred spawned by your father and your illogical support of his life’s work.

P.S. Change your name! 2 Recommendations

7 minutes ago Mark Little wrote:

This is just a ploy to get on Dancing with the Stars.

4 minutes ago Gautam De wrote:

WSJ – Why do you print such rubbish? Is killing Americans and Indians legal? Let the beast tell us. Disgusting.

4 minutes ago Windsor Dude wrote:

Bin Laden and his follower thugs are not human. I dont know of any animals that follow religion. As such, the civilized world need not worry about whether an animal’s purported religious rights were respected after it was killed.

1 minute ago Sid Harth wrote: (your comment)

I am amazed, not by what Al Qaeda’s much publisized escapades. Not by Osama’s fourth son’s argument that his father was assassinated without the due process of American and the international laws. He is making famous for fifteen minutes. Don’t we all? The entire hoopla around Osama’s so called dramatic actions, be it the blowing up of the Twin Towers and his subsequent flight from place to place, hiding from the American sleuths like CIA and Pakistani counterpart, ISI are based upon a single source. The White House propaganda mill churning out amazing suppositions, fancy interpretations, wrong conclusions and a bevvy of media reports, discussions, Sunday Political pundity. He was a tyrant, perhaps, according to some opinion moulders, oops, Media hawks, a terrorist of high order. The jury is out on that. Did I say jury? What jury? Not the jury of twelve men/women of Osma’s peers. Carefully screened by prosecuting authority and Osama’s own attorney. America believes in such a well established, well tried and trusted method to find the accused innocent and/or guilty. No such facility was either offered to Osama, The reports based upon White House dictated handouts mention a time period of 40 minutes, total. That includes immediate killings of four people. One among them was a woman. Three were male members of Osama’s household/compound. The pictures released by Pakistani sources, show these unarmed men sprawled on the floor, all bloody without any signs of their Kalashnikovs and or AK-47′s lying around or in their hands. Funny, isn’t it? They had time to take pictures of the bodies but not from a distance where a wide view of the location could show more than what they wanted to photograph. No armors, no bullet proof jackets. No helmets and no side arms, hand grenades, swords, daggers, switch blades or shoulder held missiles to knock down any helicopters, dromes or flying saucers. What kind of protection this Muslim terrorist had? A fat man, A bald man. A woman? I could afford a better team to protect my body and soul. Let us imagine that after all the buzz of howering helicopters, one landing sideways and exploding or at least making terrible noise to awake all the members of Osama’s family. I see no breaking down of doors by brute force, andge=renades or battering rams. That means, the doors were open. Abbottabad in may is usually hot, even in shade. Windows and doors may be wide open. The first encounter takes less than five minutes. The target is Osama himself. One report says he was on the third floor. Another says that he was on the ground floor. Wouldn’t osama run for his Kalashnikov while all this banging, breaking was happening? Couldn’t he make a run for the basement, an attic or the roof top for some additional time to think? His room, as per the video shows a bloody bed. Oops, he cannot be sleeping. He must be arming himself for the final assault. Another scenario shows a diagram, an artist’s sketch whereby, Tall Osama is standing erect with his wife standing in front. She is described as a human shield. how ridiculous is that description? Aneyone could have blown off his head without harming his so called human shield. This news says that he was offered an option. Either surrender or die. In what language? I don’t think he, being an Arab would understand American English. Some reports claim that Navy Seal boys were speaking Pushtun. Where did they learn that? Why would an Arab understand understand that foreign language? In dangerous situations all people resort to their mother tongues, no matter what other languages they speak or understand> he must have replied in Arabic to the demands for his surrender. Did these smart alecs understand Arabic as well? If so what variety? Egyptian, Saudi, Gulf, Qatari, Lebanon, or Pakistani? It gets more muddled further.

…and I am Sid Harth

http://sidileak.com/

26 seconds ago Jason Miller wrote:

Hey Omar,

How’s it feel to have a family member arbitrarily killed?

mier hanson wrote:

Whose side is EVAN PEREZ? Did he deserve any better?

35 minutes ago

Graham N. Dodd wrote:

I spit on your father’s grave Omar. 1 Recommendation

16 minutes ago ABEL HAFIZ replied:

say that to his face…COWARD!!!!!

35 minutes ago

Raksha Tripathi wrote:

Really… is this a joke? 32 minutes ago

tony edwards wrote:

Is this article a joke- IIllegal to kill BIn Laden in cold blood? He certainly didn’t ask the 09/11 victims permission before financing an operation that took down the World Trade Center. Nor did he take them as a prisoners.

27 minutes ago

Michael Mimo wrote:

people read my earlier post, it was setup. once u understand that you can ignore his son.

26 minutes ago

Ernest Contreras wrote:

I am a very liberal minded person.

But for some reason I can’t seem to get to a point where I can care for the rights of a mass murdering terrorist whose very existence means he doesn’t care about the rights of others in the first place. Someone who not only passes swift and irreversible judgements upon totally innocent people but later actually brags about doing so.

I can’t seem to get upset about the death of this person who basically had his own brand of justice enforced upon himself. 1 Recommendation

18 minutes ago Daniel Areshenko replied:

seems like your liberal sensibilities are telling you to cry and moan, but the sensible part of your brain is telling you to get over it and be glad that Osama no longer curses the planet with his presence. What a struggle.

24 minutes ago

ABEL HAFIZ wrote:

SO MUCH HATE. YOU ALL ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN OSAMA BIN LADEN YOU ARE IN THE SAME CATEGORY…. ENJOY THE WRATH…HAHA

20 minutes ago Daniel Areshenko replied:

Great (and by great I mean lousy) response. You made absolutely no explanation of your accusations. Instead you ranted, in all caps no less. God Bless

17 minutes ago ABEL HAFIZ replied:

ok mr know it all

14 minutes ago Fred Higgenbottom replied:

How do you describe the death of this Muslim extremist you sad apologist for mass murdering, terrorists? You spell it J-U-S-T-I-C-E! and pardon me Abel but it smells like, looks like and sounds like “JUBILATION”. How sweet it is!

23 minutes ago

peter wolf wrote:

Guess what Junior?? So was daddy’s murder of thousands of people worldwide. Did you ever bring that up with him??

21 minutes ago

Daniel Areshenko wrote:

Who cares what this guy or girl thinks. Even if everything he said was true (big even if, he has 0 credibility) so what? Illegal to who? There is no entitity that “polices” the US.

21 minutes ago

roxie carr wrote:

I am curious how Bin Laden’s son feels about the ‘arbitrary killings’ of thousands committed by, and ordered by, his father? Does he consider them equally ‘illegal’??? A rather interesting declaration, given his fathers history.

56 minutes ago

Alice Mariano wrote:

True, that, but who cares? What goes around comes around, he who lives by the sword dies by the sword, what arbitrary law did your father live by? Other military leaders are not hiding like snakes in the grass, they are out there in the opening where they can be assassinated at almost anytime, by people who see them as enemies. How many innocent civilians have been killed due your father’s plotting? If he wanted fairness in death, perhaps he should have played by the rules of engagement. 5 Recommendations

56 minutes ago

Michael Mimo wrote:

if we take the assumption that the killing was illegal for arguments sake. we can justify it in one very rational way to end this argument put forth by his son. let’s assume that Bin Laden was seriously ill. as has been suggested by his wives own words. Also, that the OLB did not want to die an old man. Thus he cleverly staged his own supposed heroic but now as his son says illegal death. He intentionally leaked out the courier usage of a cell phone that he new would be tracked. The SEAL team storms his home for 40 minutes. during which, with load explosions that even a twitter could hear from afar, he sits idle in his bed room. he makes no attempt to pick up the weapons that lay at his feet. Only when he is asked to surrender does he go for the Kalashnikov knowing he would be shot dead before reaching it. if this is how it went down, trust me it did go down this way, then you cannot call it illegal if he staged his death. the story i just told you is not urban legend. OLB had a long time to think about how he wanted his death to look like. Only at the last second after 40 minutes he goes to pick up his gun? Remember OLB is a master theatrical artist. This was his last play and he did it his way.

51 minutes ago

DAVID HALL wrote:

Boo-hooey. 2 Recommendations

51 minutes ago

PAUL BALBONI wrote:

“Bin Laden’s Son Says ‘Arbitrary’ Killing of His Father Was Illegal”

So was killing over 2,900 American civilians. Tough s_ _ _. 3 Recommendations

50 minutes ago

Steve Markson wrote:

I quite literally laughed at this headline. The arrogance is absurd. 5 Recommendations

50 minutes ago

Paul Kraly wrote:

Omar:

I think I can safely speak for much of the United States when I say…

“Boo-freaking-hoo.” 2 Recommendations

48 minutes ago

Kevin Horan wrote:

Tell that camel humping brat to go spoon a goose. 2 Recommendations

47 minutes ago

John Kaufman wrote:

who in the hell cares what this clown says. he´s lucky he wasn´t shot, too. 1 Recommendation

43 minutes ago

perry patel wrote:

JR OSAMA YOU ARE CORRECT, IF YOU CARE YOUR DAD HE WOULD HAVE SURRENDER TO US NOT HIDING IN TORABORA OR PAKISTAN IF YOU WOULD HAVE PROVIDED MONEY TO NASA THEN US WOULD HAVE THROWN OUT OF THE EARTH AND WOULD HAVE MADE HIM IN SPACE

42 minutes ago

SANDS EMM wrote:

oh boy… the guy sure is thick skin!

1 hour ago

RICHARD COLLINS wrote:

and just who gives a rat’s rear end about this person’s view? 4 Recommendations

1 hour ago Robert Freeman replied:

Well put.

1 minute ago Charles Kasakophski replied:

Other rats.

1 hour ago

David Longo wrote:

So was stealing our airplanes and flying them into our office buildings, killing thousands of innocent people. Therefore, I really couldn’t care less about what Junior thinks. 3 Recommendations

1 hour ago

PETER HANSEN wrote:

I guess he has to find some way to make himself sound relevant. If I were the son of that dirtbag, I’d change my name and try to distance myself as far as possible from that legacy. 2 Recommendations

1 hour ago

Michael Smith wrote:

We should have sent the Mormons to have coffee with him and convert him to Mormonism before attacking his compound. Maybe a visit from the Pope, too. If that didn’t work, perhaps a modern rendition by Lady Gaga of Bob Marley’s “Don’t Worry, Be Happy,” see http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/05/10/thirty-years-after-his-death-bob-marley-lives/. Shameless plug but no, I am not a shill for the WSJ.

1 hour ago

Jonathan Lyon wrote:

**** him, and the camel he rode in on… 2 Recommendations

1 hour ago

Michael Antebi wrote:

Very clever PR.

Bin Laden sons make a ridiculous statement which gets out to the entire world.

Arabs believe what they say and that what the U.S. did was illegal.

How dare they protect their terrorist father this way instead of distancing themselves from his dastardly deeds.

What happened to Osama happens all the time.

Police (and probably all countries) policy is a person being apprehended should make no sudden moves.

Osama did. And now he’s dead.

Maybe Osama should have been read his Miranda Rights.

1 hour ago

Robert Freeman wrote:

“Arbitrary”

Yeah like it was the seal team was just walking by and said “Hey, lets pop this guy”.

59 minutes ago

EDWARD ENOS wrote:

Any media outlet giving this punk more than the time of day, deserves a slap on the wrist.

Otherwise, this was the most hilarious thing I have read in weeks. I laughed until I cried. This only proves these people are some of the most illiterate human beings walking on the face of this earth. And we are at war with them.

1 Recommendation

59 minutes ago

SATISH SHARMA wrote:

No it wasn’t illegal — it was the ONLY legal thing done barrack hussein so far. 1 Recommendation

58 minutes ago

Brigitte Meier wrote:

Was Bin Laden even given any time before being shot, to surrender? Hardly. When you look at the image of a frail older man whatching TV, then the explanations of the US gov sound incredibly hollow. Did the US spend trillions on wars to catch this frail old man? Or, was Bin Laden just a pretext to start what are essentially neo-colonial wars.

Was the person Bin Laden who presumably was killed really Bin Laden or was he a fake? According to the Taliban, Bin Laden died in 2001 from lung problems. Given his life in Tora Bora, that would sound possible and plausible. The US can’t continue its war on terror for financial reasons and is looking to change its foreign policy. Bin Laden was a liability, since the war on terror was started presumably to kill Bin Laden, the alleged mastermind of terrorism. There are too many coincidences and political turns to convince that the person killed was in fact Bin Laden. That unarmed men were shot and they wouldn’t have been suspicious of helicopters clattering above their house and no escape route existed for them, for a man of Bin Laden’s experience, that doesn’t sound very believable.

As it is and as the US pretends it is, I agree with Omar Bin Laden. The targeted assassination was illegal and an incursion against Pakistani sovereignty. It doesn’t matter what past agreements are now pulled out from under the past to justify the US actions and placate Pakistan. It is obvious to everybody that they are an invention to explain further relations between the US and Pakistan.

54 minutes ago William Glasheen replied:

ZZZZzzzzzz……… 3 Recommendations

48 minutes ago Fred Higgenbottom replied:

It didn’t take this anti-America, pro-Muslim, anti-Israel, anti-US military shill with her (or is it his?) lame conspiracy theories and delusions of grandeur to pop up did it? Just click first on her/his name and then click on her activities for prior comments that are irrefutable proof! What a troll!

1 hour ago

abby lock wrote:

who cares what this mass murderer’s son thinks? 1 Recommendation

1 hour ago

Gary Bonura wrote:

Illegal? You walking around the streets, a free man, as the son of that garbage eating dog Osama Bin Laden should be illegal. I’m glad your father’s dead. The only thing I wish is that he had died slowly, in agony, like those poor people who he murdered on 9/11. You’d better keep your mouth shut junior. You’re much too stupid to survive as long as your father did. 2 Recommendations

1 hour ago

Ed Every wrote:

In order to conclude that taking Osama alive was a reasonable alternative, one would have to assume that he was unlikely to have the will, the means and the inclination to take all the lives in the room when faced with apprehension.

1. On 09/11/01 Osama amply demonstrated the will to kill as many Americans as he could. 2. His military background and his actions have amply demonstrated that he was more than likely to have full access to weapons and explosives and the skill to employ them.

Given these facts it would have been irresponsible for US to require the Seals to gamble that Osama was not armed or no longer a mortal threat.

It is obvious that orders should have been to kill Osama bin Laden on sight. 2 Recommendations

1 hour ago

John Mason wrote:

What so disgusting isn’t so much the son, as disgusting as he is, but the media insects trying trying to work up a drama about how his vermin father was disposed of. Who cares, except the inevitable chorus of left-wing politically correct whiners? 1 Recommendation

1 hour ago Michael McKinnon replied:

John, John, John, I haven’t heard any inevitable chorus of left-wing politically correct whiners. I would not express myself with quite the same words as you righties. The only thing the left and right pretty much disagree upon is who deserves the credit: W. or Obama. Anyone with a lick of sense would realize that W. has been out of office and the loop for almost 2 1/2 years.

1 hour ago Fred Higgenbottom replied:

Remember that in the future as you LEFT wingers shout “its all George W.Bush’s fault”!!!!

1 hour ago

J GALE wrote:

Nuts!

1 hour ago

James Beaty wrote:

If Osama had made any attempt to deny guilt of a capital crime, then maybe we would have considered a trial. Unfortunately for bin Laden, he publicized his guilt for the world, multiple times, saving us the trouble of said trial. 1 Recommendation

1 hour ago

J GALE wrote:

NUTS!

1 hour ago

danny bowen wrote:

There was nothing arbitrary about his killing, Rabid animals are killed then beheaded to check for the disease, in this case he was merely buried at sea to eliminate any possibility of contamination. 1 Recommendation

1 hour ago

JP Congleton wrote:

Should’ve killed him too! Ask him what his father would’ve done.

1 hour ago

John Rogitz wrote:

What has escaped bin Laden fils is that there are around 10,000 sons and daughters of 9/11 victims who believe the mass murders of their parents by Osama likewise was illegal under “international norms”.

The disgusting, revolting double standards insisted upon by the Muslim world will hold them back in the Middle Ages just as much as their disgusting, revolting misogyny and disgusting, revolting religious vacuity. 3 Recommendations

1 hour ago

Christopher Montano wrote:

Several points: 1. Unlike Milosevic and Hussein, Usama bin Laden was NOT a state actor. He was a terrorist and conducted extra-state military actions upon unarmed civilians in multiple countries with no mercy or forewarning. He had demonstrated how grave a threat he was to many peoples in multiple continents. 2. Presumption of innocence is a US judicial point of law. I see no reason why US judicial law applies to declared enemies of the country that are not US citizens. 3. I am glad bin Laden;s son is against summary executions without presumption of innocence and requisite trials by jury. Would that his father had believed the same. If he did, then the summary execution of WTC victims would not have happened nor the videotape fo bin Laden glaoting about it. 6 Recommendations

1 hour ago

Carl Vartian wrote:

Perhaps our press release should have stated that he was arrested, read his Miranda rights and then, as befell Peter Lorre in Casablanca, either committed suicide in his cell or was shot trying to escape.

Of course this is all George Bush’s fault– “I want justice,” Bush said. “And there’s an old poster out West I recall, that said, ‘Wanted, Dead or Alive.’” You called it Mr. President–Hooyah! 3 Recommendations

Killing 3000+ people in NYC in 2001 was illegal. They were noncombatants. By killing them, and then threatening to kill as many more as he could, Bin laden made himself a combatant -armed or not. Im sorry it ruined your day when we killed the monster you call your father. Our day on 9/11 wasn’t a picnic either. 5 Recommendations

1 hour ago

Romesh Chander wrote:

How does Omar know Osama was his father? All he knows, who his mother was. 3 Recommendations

51 minutes ago James Nelson replied:

Maybe. 2 Recommendations

1 hour ago

SOMCHAI SUPAWANICH wrote:

You forget about Sept 11,Daniel Perl and many innocent victims your father killed. 5 Recommendations

The shooting of an ISLAMIC terrorist like Osama Bin Laden who openly declared war on The United States of America and who proudly masterminded the deadly attacks of 9-1-1 which killed THOUSANDS of innocent people (and who didn’t have the common sense to raise his hands in surrender when confronted by Navy SEALS) became a justifiable target for tap tap! 1 Recommendation

1 hour ago ROBERT LANIER replied:

Raising his hands would have made it easier to sight in on his forehead.

1 hour ago

Mark Buck wrote:

What is the legal standing for anything his father supported that involved killing and injury? Surely, you can’t argue that those killed outside of political leaders and military have any justification and that is true by somewhat obscure logic.

I don’t wish death for anybody but bin Laden is one of those who makes me say “if anybody deserves it, it is him.” I just hope that before he got plugged he saw an American flag to let him know who it was coming for him. 1 Recommendation

1 hour ago William Clark replied:

“I just hope that before he got plugged he saw an American flag to let him know who it was coming for him.”

Exactly. And I have been trying to think of what perfect one liner the SEAL would have spoken as he focused the laser above bin Ladens’ eye, lightly puffed on an unfiltered Camel dangling from his lips, and gently squeezed the trigger.

I am going with this one:

“Reach for your weapon. Better yet, reach for the phone and dial 911 you son of a…” POW!

1 Recommendation

1 hour ago

BOB WATSON wrote:

Coming from such a law biding family, I’ll take it for what it’s worth. 7 Recommendations

1 hour ago

William Clark wrote:

His son is a megalomaniac as well apparently. 5 Recommendations

1 hour ago

ROBERT LANIER wrote:

Dear Navy SEALs,

It is not polite to punch someone in the stomach when they are tied up. Would John Wayne do such a cowardly thing? Yes you are upset that they burned your buddies and hung them off a bridge. Yes, we will prosecute you in a court martial. Next time you will know to untie them and hand them a sword (boxing gloves, knife or six gun with holster.) Act like the man you were trained to be.

President Theodore Roosevelt

1 hour ago

Romesh Chander wrote:

Illegal? According to whose laws? Allah’s laws? Who pays attention to Allah’s laws? Even muslims don’t care for Allah’s laws.

Hypocrite muslims. Illogical muslims. No wonder they don’t make any sense to anybody, not even to Allah.

May Wrath of Allah fall on Muslims, hard, I mean really hard.

Why do even US officials and elite pay any attention to these idiots and try to justify their actions. Deed is done Case is closed. Get on with the new business. I wish Omar bin laden was alsom in the compound with his father; see what would happended to him too.

Let them complain to Allah. OBAMA refuses to accept Allah’s summons and appear in Allah’s court.

Baby, this is war.. In War, there are no legal niceties.

Muslims don’t like my comments, well it is intentional. May Wrath of Allah fall on Muslims, hard, I mean really hard.

2 Recommendations

1 hour ago

Joshua Van Buskirk wrote:

‘Bin Laden’s Son Says ‘Arbitrary’ Killing of His Father Was Illegal’

Oh well… the coordination of flying jumbo jets into the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon killing thousands of innocent American civilians was also illegal – so I really don’t care. Justice has been served – deal with it. 3 Recommendations

1 hour ago Romesh Chander replied:

Joshua:

Allah is going to issue arrest warrant for Obama to appear in his court. How can Obama defy Allah? Full Wrath of Allah will fall on him. 3 Recommendations

1 hour ago

Allison Brown wrote:

is he kidding, his father admitted attacking the twin towers and killing thousands of people. He did not care about International Law then so why is it so important now. 3 Recommendations

1 hour ago

bill jung wrote:

Hey Junior, want to join your old man? 4 Recommendations

1 hour ago

Charles Sidwa wrote:

If they put there guns down there would be peace, if our soldiers put there guns down they would be killed. When in Rome do as the Romans do! 4 Recommendations

Omar bin Laden is on record as having denounced the attacks of 9/11. And he is quite western in his appearance and attire.

But obviously a Trojan horse.

Why on earth this jerk weed would seek attention through this letter is incomprehensible.

I hope the backlash is fierce and damaging to the bin laden family businesses. 3 Recommendations

1 hour ago Patrick Doyle replied:

William, it was really a rhetorical question, but thanks for the info. PJD.

9 minutes ago Kiranpal Sohi replied:

this guy is completely delusional

1 hour ago Fred Higgenbottom replied:

Omar simply doesn’t understand that the “go ahead – make my day” shooting of his father by Navy SEALS was “Deliberate” (and with extreme prejudice) rather than “ARBITRARY”! 1 Recommendation

2 hours ago

Romesh Chander wrote:

Illegal? According to whose laws? Allah’s laws? Who pays attention to Allah’s laws? Even muslims don’t care for Allah’s laws.

Hypocrite muslims. Illogical muslims. No wonder they don’t make any sense to anybody, not even to Allah.

May Wrath of Allah fall on Muslims, hard, I mean really hard.

Why do even US officials and elite pay any attention to these idiots and try to justify their actions. Deed is done Case is closed. Get on with the new business. I wish Omar bin laden was alsom in the compound with his father; see what would happended to him too.

Let them complain to Allah. OBAMA refuses to accept Allah’s summons and appear in Allah’s court.

Baby, this is war.. In War, there are no legal niceties. 3 Recommendations

1 hour ago John Rogitz replied:

Romesh, you need not call down the wrath of Allah upon Muslims. They are condemning themselves to eternal backwardness just fine without His help. 3 Recommendations

2 hours ago

KARL GEIGER wrote:

I wonder whether Omar wrote his Dad that killing thousands of innocents and blowing up mosques and cities is illegal? 4 Recommendations

2 hours ago

Ivan Negodki wrote:

It’s typical of Mus lims, who violate international law regularly, to accuse others of such violations. 7 Recommendations

2 hours ago

Michael Cavino wrote:

Gee, what does his son think the slaughter of the Americans who lost their lives on 9/11 constitute under international law? 5 Recommendations

1 hour ago Romesh Chander replied:

Michael:

That was legal. Allah issued a secret and private fatwa to Osama. Allah always guides the muslims; they won’t even go to bathroom without getting permission from Allah. No bath room breaks during prayer times.

Muslims don’t like my comments, well it is intentional. May Wrath of Allah fall on Muslims, hard, I mean really hard.

Baby, this is war.. In War, there are no legal niceties.

1 hour ago

Gregory Yamasaki wrote:

where are the liberals crying to try obama for warcrimes? 1 Recommendation

1 hour ago Joshua Van Buskirk replied:

The Progressive/Liberals are all lost in their own hypocrisy… it’s a war crime to water-board a terrorist, but it’s perfectly acceptable to put a bullet in the head of an unarmed terrorist. Although I personally agree it’s OK for both, the later will prove to be the unwinding of the left’s rhetoric against the foreign policies of Bush. 2 Recommendations

1 hour ago Warren Hall replied:

Code Pink seems to have left the building.

1 hour ago

Tim Dolan wrote:

The sad part is that we have leaders here who will tolerate this stuff. Please note that the Obama justice dept is still going after the CIA interrogators. Cool huh, they double tap an unarmed man (as they should have) but they want to prosecute the guys who got the data that helped get OBL. Typical liberal double standard. 1 Recommendation

1 hour ago James Nelson replied:

…which is the craziest thing you ever heard. It’s a good thing for Holder that he’s not an elected official.

1 hour ago

Warren Markowitz wrote:

Conspiracy to commit murder and the murder of thousands of innocents is illegal; the killing/assassination of a military leader or soldier of a foreign power in a time of war. The presumption of innocence is only granted to those under the authority and protection of the US Constitution. OBL was a sworn enemy of its rights, its principals and its concepts of freedom and individuality since they are in direct conflict with what he considered the highest authority, i.e. The Koran. Therefore he was not entitled to its protections. 1 Recommendation

1 hour ago

Sean Mcguire wrote:

Glad Omar likes to watch American TV. Where else would he come up with this absurdity unless he watches American news. HEY Omar as the NY Fireman said at the Concert for NY all those years ago….”you can kiss my royal irish &^%$#”. Your next Omar.

NEW DELHI: Washington and Islamabad struck a clandestine deal, almost a decade ago, to allow US forces to capture Osama bin Laden, dead or alive, by unilaterally raiding his secret hideout in Pakistan.

The disclosure by British daily, The Guardian, was based on interviews of serving and retired American and Pakistani government officials. The deal was signed in 2001, by then US President George Bush and his Pakistani counterpart Pervez Musharraf after bin Laden managed to evade American forces in the mountains of Tora Bora.

Under the terms of the pact, Pakistan would allow US forces to conduct a unilateral raid inside its territory to look for bin Laden, his deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri and the al-Qaeda No 3. The Pakistanis, it was agreed, would protest strongly against the ‘incursion,’ for public consumption.

Musharraf, however, denied the charge. A private television channel quoted a statement from his office in Dubai: “There was never a verbal or written agreement on this. There is no truth to The Guardian article.”

The British daily spoke to a number of officials from the two countries before going public with its findings. “There was an agreement between Bush and Musharraf that if we knew where Osama was, we were going to come and get him,” it quoted a former senior US official with knowledge of counter-terrorism operations as saying. “The Pakistanis would put up a hue and cry, but they wouldn’t stop us,” he added.

A senior Pakistani official concurred with the assessment, and said the pact had been struck under Musharraf and renewed by the army during the `transition to democracy’ – a six-month period from February 2008 when Musharraf was still Pakistani president, but a civilian government was elected.

Referring to the US Navy Seals assault on bin Laden’s Abbottabad campus, the official added: “As far as our American friends are concerned, they have just implemented the agreement.” The former US official claimed that the Pakistani protests of the past week were the public face of the deal. “We knew they would deny this stuff,” he said.

The deal to liquidate the al-Qaeda founder was in consonance with Pakistan’s unspoken policy towards CIA drone strikes in the tribal belt, which was revealed by WikiLeaks US embassy cables last November. In August, 2008, Gilani reportedly told a US official: “I don’t care if they do it, as long as they get the right people. We’ll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it.” As drone strikes have escalated in the tribal belt over the past year, senior civilian and military officials put up a show of denunciations even as it became clear the Pakistani military was backing the secret deal.

The former US official said that Pakistan had no option but to go along with the American plan. “It didn’t come from Musharraf’s desire. On the Predators, we made it very clear to them that if they weren’t going to prosecute these targets, we were, and there was nothing they could do to stop us taking unilateral action….We told them, over and again.”

My following comment is being sent for the presidential pardon, pardon my French, approval in the White House. “Mr president, please wake up. we have a secret communication from ET” syas the secretary of Stae, Hilary Rodham Clinton in a very well modulated, firm but tender voice. “Damn, damn and damn. Since I ordered those Navy Seal boys to assassinate the devil, oops, Al Qaeda Satan, Osama ben laden, I am losing my motion, oops, locomotion, oops, sleep. That Satan is mocking me from his watery grave. Taunting me, daring me to tell the truth. I can’t tell the truth. What does he think? We, the presidents of America don’t have that dirty word in our dictionary. If it is, it must be them Commies, oops, Muslim Jehadists, oops, terrorists who must have inserted. Shoot. What’s your problem? I can handle it. I am on cloud nine. Fire off.” says, sleepy Obama. “Mr President, this is about one Sid Harth harth (Washington, DC) making us, oops, US look bad.” says Monica, oops, Hilary. “How bad? Like South side of Chicago Bahhhahhha-aD?” says Osama, oops, Obama. “More like badder, oops badest super bad.” Chimes Hilary. “Find him. OOps, locate him and kill that bastard. Pump a dozen bullets thru his uppity nostrils. Just do it.” OK Boss, you are da man.” replies Hilary and exits. “Mr President, who shall find him? CIA took good ten years, those no account ninnies. If assigned to find Sid harth harth right here in the capital, oops, the foggy bottom, they would take tenty years, God willing.” Don’t bother me with details. Who cares? I wouldn’t be here when that happens” replies Obama.

Thank you We appreciate you taking time to post your opinion on this article.You might also like to read what others have to say on this article.

“Musharraf, my main man, King George here, oops, George W. Assalamaleikum.” a voice sounding regal, oops, presidential booms. “waleikumassalam, meine Herr. What a pleasure, “huzur,” sir in Urdu. replies a voice from Islamabad palace, oops, garrison. “Listen, buddy boy, I got some new military toys, sitting right here in Texas that I want to test on humans. I, unfortunately, may not be able to test them in America. Human lives are considered as precious. Moreover, these Democrats, oops, Demonic Rats, oops, dem, oops, damn donkeys would stop me cold with that kind of killing of American citizens. You know that we have a Constitution, Free Speech, Freedom of Religion and Association. Goddamn that filthy piece of shit, oops, parchment paper. Must be burned, buried or bargained away. Where was I?” says the regal voice. “I hear yi el presidente, loud and clear. In Pakistan, we have buried it too. Times are a changing. Who needs those stupid, concocted and outdated concepts of Human Rights? Anything we can do, oops, you can’t do, we can do better. Send the toy-boys. We will spread a red carpet for them. We shall take care of their toys, tankers, missiles, bombs, bimbos, babes. You name it and we shall provide it. Gratis. No charge. Secret handshake over the phone is good enough for me. Howzzat el presidente?” a more accommodating voice says. ” Hotdiggedidogg. May Allah be praised. May Holy Hindu cows come home from heaven. Sound off, oops, over and out. Peace!.

NEW DELHI: Holding that corrupt members of the subordinate judiciary should be “thrown out”, the Supreme Court on Tuesday came down heavily on a woman judge calling her a “super Supreme Court” for defying its order.

“You can’t take the Supreme Court as a joke. People are looking at judges with suspicion. Today, all sort of things like 80 per cent of the subordinate judiciary are corrupt are being said, which is very shameful”, fumed a two-member bench of the apex court comprising Justice Markanday Katju and Justice Gyan Sudha Misra.

The bench directed disciplinary action against Delhi’s Additional District Judge Archana Jain for defying its order and stayed the eviction proceedings against the tenant Udham Singh Jain Charitable Trust, Central Delhi, despite the fact that the Supreme Court in an order on October 6, 2010, had dismissed the tenant’s plea.

“Archana Sinha had no business to defy our order and she has become a super Supreme Court”, the bench said.

The apex court said it was constrained to say that a certain section of the subordinate judiciary in the country is bringing the whole judiciary of India into disrepute by passing orders on extraneous considerations.

“We do not wish to comment on the various allegations which are often made to us about what certain members of the subordinate judiciary are doing but we do want to say that these kind of malpractices have to be totally weeded out.

“Such subordinate judiciary judges are bringing a bad name to the whole institution and must be thrown out of the judiciary,” Jusice Katju, writing the judgement, said.

At one stage, the bench threatened to send the judge to jail and suspend her but after Sinha profusely apologised and pleaded for mercy, after which the apex court decided to refer the matter to the Delhi high court chief justice for necessary action.

“We will send you to jail. We will suspend you,” the bench remarked orally. But later it relented and referred the judge’s case to the chief justice of the high court.

Corrupt members of subordinate judiciary should be thrown out: SC

Comments (24)

Recommended (7)

markandey (delhi) 1 hr ago (12:02 AM)

markandey katju on fire hahaha from references such as a “one-night stand” to wikipedia quotations, his judgments are often sprinkled with morsels of controversy, but they never fail to convey a very forthright and useful opinion. Agree (1)

bb (delhi) 1 hr ago (11:50 PM)

why did’nt the hon’ble bench of the court say the same thing about our ex-CJI, justice balakrishnan? why is justice balakishnan still the head of NHRC, did the head of supreme court judges not hang in shame then? Agree (1)Disagree (2)

it’s really funny to read supreme Court’s comments.there’no doubt about corruption in lower courts,but then what about corruption of Judges in their own backyards – somany of their past judges are confirmed corrupt ! Agree (4)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)

Adanand (UAE) 2 hrs ago (10:42 PM)

OK…All corrupt “subordinates” must be thrown out. What about the higher ones? Is there a separate law for them? Agree (5)Disagree (3)

tamanna (mumbai) replies to Adanand 2 hrs ago (11:00 PM)

No separate Law but protected by the Law. Agree (2)Disagree (3)

Ne Rt Rt (Delhi) 2 hrs ago (10:42 PM)

To make law work Fear of Law must be implanted in every citizen .. When people know law is easy subject to play with this things will happen .. Put guilty inside cage for 40 year / 60 year .. Agree (1)Disagree (3)

Sid Harth Harth (Washington, DC) 2 hrs ago (10:35 PM)

Anna’s Lokpal Bill, oops, Jan Lokpal Bill asks for nothing less than a super tzar status for a single person. Fine and dandy with me. Among all the population of India, I cannot imagine a person to qualify for the job. Everybody thinks that the law would scrap away all the corruption from the Indian society’s midst. The simple example of this tragedy is displayed in this news. The highest court in the land cannot even send a bailiff to serve a summons to the offending local judge to appear in the court. Politics affects all. However no one, it seems, to care about the politics in the judiciary itself. I believe, the total Judicial structure be condemned. As in the USA, let the president, oops, the prime minister appoint the supreme court judges. After careful scrutiny from the Parliamentary sub committee, broadcast in real time to all who care, two chambers, Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha may vote on this appointment. This way, any person can prove to handle the duties and the obligations of the job. His tenure should be lifetime, unless, health issues decides his early retirement. In case of lower courts, the candidates must not only be qualified but be endorsed by the legal experts or their associations. Each citizen, then votes for his candidature. This gives the public a fair chance to weed out known corrupt candidates. Open elections mean debates, meetings, interviews and candidate’s bio available to all. The current system lacks verification. Fini.

…and I am Sid Harth

Agree (2)Disagree (4)

Surya Kiran (delhi) 2 hrs ago (10:33 PM)

the levels of our lower judiciary are pathetic, even worse than pathetic outdated laws. Wonder if Anna Hazare would have to take the responsibility of cleaning Disagree (1)

Anand Kafaltiya Kafaltiya (Bareilly) 2 hrs ago (10:21 PM)

Cleansing the lower judiciary is essential, the subordinate judges are taking bribes for performing their duties and damaging the status of the judicial system. The corrupt judicial officers should be identified by vigilance and be punished on grounds of adverse findings against them. Agree (2)

I agree with you . Judges at district and tehsil level are highly corrupt . Allahabad Highcourt is highly corrupt high court of india Agree (1)

sreeKUMAR (abu dhabi) 2 hrs ago (10:11 PM)

the corrupt in HC and SC should be thrown out first……….cleansing should start at the top….. Agree (5)

raj (usa) 2 hrs ago (10:10 PM)

is it archana jain or archana sinha?

Vilas (India) 3 hrs ago (10:05 PM)

Am I reading it right or is it a misprint? The Sc says corrupt members of subordinate judiciary be thrown out? Does that mean corrupt members of higher judiciary should stay where they are? All our institutions have become arrogant and unanswerable to any one. That includes Govt. parliament, police, and judiciary and to some extent prints media. There is two sets of laws, one for common people and another one for those who are not common. Look at the language used by Judges they are preaching the nation, they think they know all. Think why even one has to say corrupt judges ( or for that matter any govt official) should be thrown out. That should be a norm , that is what Police are paid to investigate and Judges are appointed and paid handsomely( atlas as compared to common man) to deliver justice. It is your job Supreme Court to do what you are shouting about and stop preaching. Do your job and talk less. Or is it like shallow water makes lot of noise?

Monica (New Delhi) 3 hrs ago (10:05 PM)

To make this decision credible, the judges who do not work, who do not issue judgment in a reasonable amount of time, and who are in habit of adjourning court proceedings must also be thrown out of the judiciary.

Dadhichi Devender (Delhi) 3 hrs ago (09:55 PM)

The lower judiciary judges can be punished because they are in the administrative control of the hight courts and judicial control of the high courts and the supreme court both. Every one who is corrupt must not be pardoned. But what can be said about the black sheep in the higher judiciary. None can do anything against them. They are not amenable. They are protected in the constitution. Would the social champions who are busy with making lokpal bill these days remember this fact and make some provisions to ensure a corruption free environment in the so called higher judiciary. It would have been very pleasant ana promising if the supreme court would have said something on the entire corruption in judiciary rather than singling out a vulnerable lower judge. Dadhichi Agree (2)

Ganapathi Hegde (Dharwad) 3 hrs ago (09:44 PM)

A few days back the Chief Justice of India had stated while referring the Indian Higher Judiciary that, ” a clean person under a black gown is rare”. Today a Division the Supreme Court in very strong words declared that, “the corrupt Judges of the subordinate Judiciary should be thrown out”. Supreme Court itself is telling what the publics have to say. We have no further things to add except wishing that the corrupt judges must be shown the doors without any further delay. The disciplinary actions initiated against Justice Dinakaran, Justice Nirmala Yadav, Justice Sen etc., must speedup and they should be punished forthwith which may have some deterrent effect on the serving judges. Something should be done against the retired Chief Justice of India Justice Balakrishnan within the legal parameters who is a proved corrupt. Agree (8)Recommend (1)

mithola singh (USA) 3 hrs ago (09:44 PM)

Judges backing off from firing her dilutes the impact of message to those corrupt judges. Agree (4)

Vilas (India) replies to mithola singh 2 hrs ago (10:15 PM)

The Judge roared, “”We do not wish to comment on the various allegations which are often made to us about what certain members of the subordinate judiciary are doing but we do want to say that these kind of malpractices have to be totally weeded out. ” Now question is whom is he talking and asking to the job? Is Amm Admi has the power to do what Judge roared? It is his job why is he shouting instead of doing his job? Nothing is going to happen in that case as the matter has been referred to High Court. The judge in question will retire when she is supposed to retire and will appointed to some constitutional authority position. The shouting of the Supreme Court is jst a show. Those what barks doest bite. Yeah they might bite Aam admi for contempt. But again who does not bite the aam admi? Agree (1)Recommend (1)

Rajinder Singh (USA) 3 hrs ago (09:40 PM)

If the Judiciary department including lawyers, the law enforcement authroities are honest, sincere, faithful to their responsibilties, demonstrate patriotism, perform their duty withdedication and devotion to their comittments, perhaps India would be the best place in the Glove to live and work. Agree (3)Recommend (1)

sorry for the spelling error. It occured inadvertently, therefore, it is reconciled to read as “GLOBE” Thanks and God Bless Agree (1)

NEAL SANGHVI (MUMBAI) 3 hrs ago (09:31 PM)

NOW IT IS TIME TO MOVE TO THROW CORRUPT POLITICIANS. IT IS HIGH TIME… ONLY JUDICIARY NOT HAVING CORRUPT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. IT TOOK NOT EVEN 10 YEARS TO UNDERSTAND IMPORTANCE OF CLEAN JUDICIARY BUT EVEN AFTER 70 YEARS, WE HAVE NOT UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF CLEAN POLITICS AND FREEDOM???? Agree (2)Disagree (1)Recommend (1)

Gautam (India) 3 hrs ago (09:24 PM)

I hope supreme court shows and acts with same clarity when matters relating to superior judges arise and not give an opportunity to others to comment on it or even give a chance to state legislature and parliament to proceed with impeachment. Agree (5)Recommend (1)

WASHINGTON: US President Barack Obama telephoned Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and discussed the successful American action against Osama bin Laden in Pakistan and the situation in the region.

“President Obama spoke with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to discuss the successful American action against Osama bin Laden,” said a statement issued by White House last night.

However, it did not give further details. This is the first conversation between the two leaders since the killing of bin Laden on May 2 in a covert raid by US Special Forces in the garrison city of Abbotabad .

The statement said the two leaders also reviewed progress in implementing the initiatives launched during Obama’s November 2010 visit to India.

“The two leaders re-affirmed their commitment to building a global, strategic partnership, including defence cooperation, and looked forward to the upcoming meetings of the Strategic Dialogue, the Homeland Security Dialogue, the Joint Space Working Group, and the High-Technology Cooperation Group,” the statement said.

The two leaders also discussed global and regional issues of mutual concern, it said .

Singh had termed bin Laden’s killing as a significant step forward and asked the international community and Pakistan in particular to work comprehensively to end the activities of all terror groups.

The Prime Minister had hoped that bin Laden’s elimination would deal a “decisive blow” to al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups”.

The telephonic talk came on a day when the US President raised questions about the possibility that “some people inside of government” in Pakistan may have been involved in providing support structure for the slain terrorist.

India has told America on many occasions that Pakistan remains a safe haven for terrorists, especially after the 2008 Mumbai attacks, blamed on Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Readers’ opinions (2)

Sid Harth Harth (Washington, DC)

“Hello?” a distinctive, self assured, oops, self assumed big boss’ voice rumbles across the continents, deep oceans, over the mountain tops, deserts, wastelands, no-man’s lands, terrorists’ territories, oops, Muslim terrorists’, oops, Al Qaeda terrorists territories, over the jungles, forests, kitchen gardens, front yards and back porches, mansions, palaces, huts and mountain retreats and lush valleys, between the mighty empire, THE USA to the superpower wannabe, India, oops, Bharat. “namaste, may I direct your call please?” says Dr Manmohan Singh, who has a penchant to redirect oncoming onslaught of charges, accusations, rumors and flying saucers to his GoM underlings. “No my main man. I am the emperor, oops, the president of these United States, the land of milk and honey, home of the brave, oops, brash, bitter, bozos, oops, applie pies. We dig, my dear Bro. Wassup?” says the rumbling voice from Washington, DC,oops, AC/DC. “Pardon my French, your highness, oops, holiness, I thought, for a minute, that you were L K Advani, the BJP bull in a China shop, charging in with the only aim to destroy my family business.” says, Doc. “No shittin’, oops, kiddin’. My main man, have no fear, I shall be there, any time, any day, to kill you, oops, help you from our common enemies, oops, terrorist enemies. The help is on the way, even as we speak. Four helicopters with my Marines, oops, Navy Seals would land in the backyard of the said Hindu terrorist.” Stay cool, OK.

…and I am Sid Harth

Rightheaded (surat)

It appears USA President spoke to our P.M. moe about business for his tycoons then elimination of terorrists, as india has not agreed for US manufactured planes. how is that?

Scenarios: Bin Laden’s secret years; where was he and who knew? By Robert Birsel

ISLAMABAD | Tue May 10, 2011 8:56am EDT

(Reuters) – U.S. investigators are trying to put together the pieces of Osama bin Laden’s secret life in the hope of unearthing details of his global network of Islamist militants bent on attacking the West.

Key to that will be tracing his movements from the weeks after the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States to last week, when U.S. special forces killed him after discovering him hiding in a compound in the Pakistani town of Abbottabad.

Efforts to trace his movements over the decade are likely to shed light on who helped him, and that could prove highly embarrassing to U.S. ally Pakistan which has rejected as absurd accusations it was either incompetent or playing a double game.

Following are some possible explanations for how bin Laden ended up under the noses of the Pakistani authorities, in a compound with high walls topped with barbed wire, a short distance from the country’s top military academy.

HE WAS ON HIS OWN

Pakistan has rejected any suggestion of involvement in bin Laden’s lost years. That would mean he was on his own and managed to slip into Pakistan from Afghanistan in late December 2001 undetected, and remained hidden with a handful of aides and relatives from the eyes of the authorities, including the pervasive security agencies.

Pakistani investigators, questioning bin Laden’s three wives who were found in the compound after the May 2 raid, said the women had told them bin Laden had been hiding in the compound for the past five years, and previously he had spent two-and-a-half years in the nearby village of Chak Shah Mohammad. Reporters could find no trace of bin Laden there.

A move to Abbottabad in 2006 would suggest he felt compelled to leave wherever he had been. It was in January 2006 that the CIA began its campaign of attacks by missile-firing drone aircraft on militants sheltering in lawless Pashtun tribal lands on the Pakistani side of the Afghan border, with a deadly strike on Damadola village, in the Bajaur region.

Another possibility is that bin Laden felt compelled to move after an earthquake in October 2005 killed 73,000 people. The U.S. military and other Western armies sent forces to help with rescue efforts in northern mountains, including the Pakistani part of the Kashmir region where various militant groups operate. Had bin Laden been holed up in the disaster zone, he might have felt it safer to move somewhere like Abbottabad, which was not badly hit and not the focus of foreign attention.

Whatever his movements, the fact he went undetected for at least five years in Pakistan suggests an intelligence failure. Abbottabad is a garrison town where military commanders come and go.

Residents in the neighborhood thought the behavior of the occupants of the bin Laden compound strange, particularly that about 16 children living there were schooled at home and never allowed out on their own. Did such behavior never rouse the curiosity of security agents, especially those responsible for the safety of the top brass on their comings and goings to the nearby military academy?

PAKISTAN KNEW EVERYTHING

Analysts find it hard to believe Pakistani leaders were sheltering the chief of a group whose members were trying to kill them.

Former military leader and president Pervez Musharraf narrowly survived two bomb attacks carried out by al Qaeda-linked militants while his prime minister survived one. Security forces, including the main Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency, have been repeatedly attacked by bin Laden’s followers, losing thousands of men.

It seems inconceivable that there was any formal government decision to shelter bin Laden, especially one made by a civilian government that took power in 2008, or that government leaders had any clue about him.

But in a country that has been ruled by the military for more than half its 64 years of history, such sensitive issues are anyway the exclusive domain of the military/security establishment.

ROGUE OR RETIRED SECURITY AGENTS HELPED HIM

The truth almost undoubtedly lies somewhere in the murky void between the scenario that Pakistan authorities knew nothing and knew everything.

It’s conceivable that in the fraught weeks after the September 11 attacks, the world’s most wanted man slipped across the border from Afghanistan to escape U.S. bombs and someone decided it was in Pakistan’s national interest to hold the “asset”.

Security agents could have set up an independent team outside the chain of command to watch over the al Qaeda leader. That could have given Pakistan’s security establishment the best of both worlds – plausible deniability and an asset of unmatched value.

Or rogue or retired security agents could have decided that in defiance of the country’s official policy to join the United States in the global campaign against militancy, it was in Pakistan’s national interest to hold him. They could have let the al Qaeda leader hide under the noses of the military, and under their watch, in the garrison town.

It was only a chance phone call, intercepted by a Pakistani security team probably with no idea of any link to bin Laden, or to his handlers, and passed on to the United States, that led the CIA on its secret mission to his lair.

WHY?

The answer to why some Pakistanis might have thought it wise to hold the man some of whose followers are battling the Pakistani state could probably be found in the country’s obsessive suspicion of its nuclear-armed rival, India.

Pakistan has no interest in bin Laden’s global holy war but the defense against perceived Indian aggression drives strategic thinking, and militants have regularly been used against India and its influence in the region.

No matter that some al Qaeda followers were battling Pakistan, if others were willing and able to fight India, perhaps it was seen as best to hold their inspirational leader.

Or perhaps some Pakistanis thought bin Laden could have been an ace to offer the United States the next time war with India loomed.

Or perhaps some Pakistanis thought U.S. engagement with Pakistan, its influence with India on Pakistan’s behalf, and its billions of dollars in aid, would end once the Americans had caught their enemy number one. (Editing by John Chalmers)

We welcome comments that advance the story directly or with relevant tangential information. We try to block comments that use offensive language, all capital letters or appear to be spam, and we review comments frequently to ensure they meet our standards. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters.

Comments (2)

Comment successfully submitted.

Your post is pending approval. Published comments can be removed if they do not meet our standards. What’s This?

My dear Robert,

Somehow, I get the impression that you want to say something important but you cannot find the right words. Happens to the best of us. Your foray into, would have, should have, could have, might have, perhaps not, if such and such happened, then, logically, oops, illogically this could have happened or Not. Get a hold of yourself. Did he or didn’t he? Of course, I mean, all the parties whom you suspect of sheltering him for all those long years. You did not bother to either name them or give their mobile numbers, tags or positions in the military intelligence hierarchy. Throw some real names. Any names that come to your mind. It makes no difference whether they are real, fake or imaginary. Public want all the dirt they can get. US is sending their best media professionals, their best spin doctors, including but not limited to president Barack Obama himself, posing as a hero, oops, a fearless exterminator in front of well behaved select audience. Full presidential aura of giant flags hanging behind the lectern, rows of clean shaved Navy Seals boys in attention modes, ready to clap whenever their commander in chief pauses for it. Come on Robert, they are going on a victory parade. In the past, such welcome parades used to be called “Ticker Parades.” This time it may be called “Tinker Bell Parade.” Too much is suspicious. Too much remains to be said. Too many questions cannot find the right answers. Nobody is dead. If so, bring the dead body back. No body, no crime, oops, criminal celebrations. Have a nice day.

…and I am Sid Harth

http://sidileak.com/

jhardin wrote:

duh…i have been traveling in that region for years…the way i see it…if you have money you can do many things in Pakistan. Locals near his compuond were too busy to get involved in strangers business.

May 10, 2011 9:52am EDT — Report as abuse Papaye wrote:

This is the best scenario: “and its billions of dollars in aid, would end once the Americans had caught their enemy number one.”

Read more on »US Foreign Policy|terrorism|Surgical strikes|Pakistan|Osama bin Laden|American Navy Seals Pak perfidy is now the big thing for Indian media, from calls to dump the Mohali spirit and rants against the Pak policy of hunting with the hounds while providing safe burrows for hares to wild hopes that Washington will now declare Pakistan a new enemy. The impact, if any, of this frenzy on Pakistan would be counterproductive : to whip up nationalist fervour and impede internal reform.

Does anyone who wasn’t born yesterday need Osama bin Laden being tracked down to a mansion near Rawalpindi to be convinced of Pakistan’s reliance on terror as an instrument of state policy ? Pakistan recruited, trained and armed the Taliban . Ditto for terrorists targeting India. The Americans handed over to India transcripts of the instructions flowing out of Pakistan to the terrorists who attacked Mumbai in 2008. Who does not know, except for those who choose not to know, like China, of Pakistan’s comfort with the proposition that terror is war by other means?

The question is, what can India realistically do about it? War or surgical strikes or daring raids of the kind American Navy Seals performed to take out bin Laden are not viable options, given the real possibility of such actions’ swift escalation into a nuclear confrontation . What has really changed after bin Laden’s elimination? The most important factor is the serious blow it has delivered to the legitimacy and prestige of the Pak army.

If the Pak army and its intelligence wing knew nothing about Osama having taken shelter in a suburb of Islamabad, and this state of blissful ignorance extended to the incursion of American helicopters into Pak airspace and a 40 minute firefight close to a military installation, then the army’s competence is zilch. If, on the other hand – and this is a more likely contingency – if the Pak army knew what was going on, both when bin Laden found a safe house near Islamabad and when American special forces killed him, it is a treacherous force that cannot be trusted by friend or foe.

Friend can turn foe or a seeming foe actually be a friend. In other words, on account of either trustworthiness or competence, the Pak army is the pits. This loss of credibility has serious implications for the Pak army’s ability to use terror as a means of strategic depth. No terror outfit can any longer swear to love, honour and obey the Pak army as in the past. Depending on the constellation of international pressure and domestic politics , the army could wash its hand of any group it had been supporting, at any point of time.

A dead Osama bin Laden is living testimony to the Pak army’s fickle fidelity. But don’t police informers and double agents work under such perilous patronage all the time? Why should terror outfits alone be put off by such unreliable sponsorship? The difference is in the nature of the motivation. Informers and the like work for money, and accept the risks as they come. Terror groups are driven by ideology, commitment to what they believe to be a calling as high as the heavens. Those who betray such committed soldiers also betray the larger cause and cannot be pardoned.

The irrationality that drives their commitment and cohesion makes terrorists difficult customers when it comes to accommodation within a framework of coldblooded calculus of the kind the Pak army would seem to have employed with regard to bin Laden. The army’s loss of prestige and weakened ability to deploy obedient dogs of war would be the two concrete outcomes of the bin Laden killing that India has to factor in. The continuing movement for democracy in the Arab world is another.

India has good relations with all the regimes that are under threat from their own people. So it is difficult to support movements whose eventual success can only be speculated on, against entrenched governments. Yet, India must throw its lot with the people, not with the governments . Modernity and democracy in the Islamic world will not just make jihad redundant but also make it difficult for Pakistan’s oligarchy to continue the pretend that they have a democracy going over there.

Radical internal reform is Pakistan’s route to emancipation from a national self-definition in hostility to India, and to civilian supremacy over the military establishment. Pak bashing in India only serves to unleash defensive nationalism in that country, hampering internal reform and restoring lost legitimacy to the army. The sensible course for India is to continue to engage the state, such as it is, in Pakistan, while encouraging democracy and reform in the Arab world.

And the latter would be incomplete without an independent state of Palestine at peace with Israel. In return for its cooperation in supporting democracy in the Arab world, India should ask the US to not let Afghanistan relapse into Taliban rule, however distrustful the Taliban might now be, of the Pak army. This would be a constructive response, not high-decibel Pak bashing.

Readers’ opinions (5)

Sid Harth Harth (Washington, DC)

This is a case of twins, oops, Siamese twins, India and Pakistan. Each is attached to the other, at their hips. I wonder why they fight constantly when they cannot exist if the other dies. The fear among the Pakistani Muslims and their counterpart, Indian Muslims is real. The history proves that. Babri Mosque demolition was just one of the major point the radical, fundamentalist Hindus make. They can get away with murder. Subsequent exploitation such as after Godhra mass mayhem and murders prove their point. The point these Muslim hating Hindus make is that it is their country, no matter whether the seculars or radicals are in power. Further on, they keep their radical guns ready and their gun powder dry. Aseemanand, Sunil Joshi, Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, Narendra Modi, Colonel Purohit and other murderers of Sangh Parivar care not for showing their heinous nature. Imagine a situation where two houses in a crowded city with a common wall. One occupied by a radical Hindu and the other by the radical Muslim. When Muslim’s house catches on fire the Hindu adds his own fuel to the fire. Not realizing that the fire does not recognize walls, streets, neighborhoods. Fire consumes all. Destroy Pakistan and get ready for angry mob from all directions. Especially from Afghan Talibans, Pakistan Talibans and Bangladesh Talibans. Not to ignore Kashmir Jehadists. There is no place for these radical Hindus to escape. No power in the world that can send them help. Fini.

…and I am Sid Harth

Sort by:Newest|Oldest|Recommended (0)|Most Discussed Prasenjit (NYC)

I remember during Mr Obama’s India visit he mentioned a very important point..a stable pakistan in the interest of India..i think that make sense.

gurumurti balakrishnan balakrishnan (bangalore)

Even Americans were baffled at Japnese ways of management, down to earth mechanics. So india needs down to earth approach to prop up pakistan. it has to talk less on 26/11 always but it has to see how to help pakistan, that is people of pakistan as they are as good as Indian public. Amity and union is strength. U saw today Arunachal CM died in copter crash but ISRO or any technic really helped but tribals there found the wreckages! be down to earth and be less on pontification technics!

Subhas C Lakhotia (Jakarta, Indonesia)

We have an impression that vested interests in Pakistan provide safe harbour for terrorist activities, at least against India. Finding Osama in Pakistan adds nothing to our conviction. We do not need to humiliate Pakistan just because of actions of few. People across the border are equally peace-loving, cheerful, friendly and share so much in common with us. If we were to do so, just Google who called FREEDOM FIGHTER to Osama. Pakistan did not create Osama. Neighbour-basing does no good. We cannot change our neighbours – we need to grow together to allow both of us to flourish. There is no one-man upmanship. News reporters should refrain from sensationalising news for commercial benefits and for sure, never play with emotions which has long term negative implications. Instigation is a crime as well. Instead we all should channel our energy and efforts to cleanse our society of the many ills that we have. This is not a game where scoring point is the objective.

kristalsoldier (mumbai)

Are you kidding me? You peddle a structuralist-institutional explanation for Pakistan’s adoption of what you refer to as “terror as war by other means”. Your assumption is that this Pakistani strategy is wholly institutionally driven – be it the ISI or the Pakistani Armed Forces. While this may very well be true, your essay does not allow for the possibility of the Pakistani strategy vis-a-vis India being “culturally” driven. In other words, you do not account for the possibililty that the expression of what Pakistani strategists would no doubt describe as “sub-conventional operations” against India as being material manifestations of a “concept” of operations that is culturally determined rather than being a product of the usual game-theoretic calculus.

Read more on »Supreme Court|Ayodhya title suit|Allahabad High Court The Supreme Court has not only stayed the Allahabad High Court judgment on the Ayodhya title suit but also termed it ‘strange’ and leading to ‘a litany of litigation’. This holds out the hope that the Supreme Court would rid the law of the irrationality that had been introduced into it by the Allahabad High Court verdict. It should be clear that the Ayodhya dispute is not amenable to a judicial solution. The legal system can only settle a title dispute. That will not satisfy the losing side, whichever way the court decides. The dispute involves faith, the commitment of the Republic and its institutions to the essential values of a plural, multi-constituent society, recorded history, oral tradition and many other diverse things that hinge on values and core questions as to what constitutes Indian nationhood.

These depend neither on evidence nor on the law. In other words, the dispute is not justiciable. Only political action, based on the will to transcend differences for the sake of the larger nation and its collective good, can find a solution. Yet, the Allahabad High Court tried to clothe a compromise as a form of legal resolution, relying on faith as actionable evidence and doing damage, in the process, to the law and to vital political values. It is necessary and sufficient that the Supreme Court should undo this damage done by the high court. If it can delineate the boundaries of judicial action and leave needed further resolution to the political process, that would be what is required. Given this reality, it is entirely necessary for the political class to work on a viable solution at the political level, even as the court goes about judicial salvage, taking its time.

It is not enough for the politicians to get into the act once the court has delivered its verdict. They must be proactive and come up with a solution, sparing the Supreme Court the possible trauma of being found wanting , ignored or losing respect. Many a politician would welcome, right now, a development that would bring down the Supreme Court’s standing a notch or two. However , by reducing the stature of the court, the political class would not gain; rather, the entire constitutional framework would suffer eroded legitimacy.

Well said, ET. Congress party, from the foundation day, was a party for all the Indians, not just for the Hindus. Congress party galvanized the public opinion under Mahatma Gandhi’s secular leadership. No wonder that people like Mohammad Ali Jinnah and Ali brothers, the leaders, oops, Muslim leaders separated from the then Congress party in a nick of time to have their separate demand of Pakistan. Gandhi, no matter how he manipulated and pressured the right wing Hindu leaders , he could not get a convincing guarantee from any one of them as to the fair play towards the minority. Gandhi was assassinated by these very same radical Hindus. If Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar also believed in a separate voting group of Shudras, as Muslims wanted to have, if they remained in the independent India. At least both were right. Mahatma Gandhi resisted such internal disharmony by fasting. Dr Ambedkar’s Dalit constituency was too poor, too enslaved and too disorganized to be consulted. However, Muslims were not. Their religious structure manages both religious and secular affairs. They have better communication channels which they exploited to the hilt. Ambedkar, on the other hand, had to force himself to accept Mahatma Gandhi’s leadership and abandon his quest for the separate Dalit constituency. He could have aligned with Jinnah but he didn’t. As a result, in frustration, he quit Hindu religion along with all of his followers. Hindus cannot be trusted. Never for justice.

NEW DELHI: The legal tussle over Ayodhya has returned to where it stood 50 years ago, with the Supreme Court reopening the case and staying the Allahabad High Court’s last September order that divided the disputed land among Ram Lalla , Hindus and Muslims.

“There will be a status quo and operation of the HC order will be stayed. It needs to be corrected at this stage. Such a partition decree could not have been passed. When we stay the operation of the HC judgment, the drawing of the decree gets automatically stayed,” said a bench of Justices Aftab Alam and RM Lodha.

This has quashed the hopes of a settlement of the dispute in the immediate future. The litigants in this case will have to begin arguments afresh for establishing their claim over the 2.77 acres of disputed land. The apex court has admitted all petitions that had challenged the HC judgment.

At Ayodhya, puja will be permitted at the makeshift temple that came up after the demolition of the disputed structure. In its order, the bench stayed the September 30 HC verdict dividing the land equally between the idol’s guardian, Sunni Wakf Board and Nirmohi Akhara.

The court also made it clear that there should be no religious activity, either by Hindus or Muslims, on the 67.703 acres of land surrounding the disputed area. The status quo on both 2.77 acres of disputed land as well as the 67.703 acres of surrounding land – acquired by the Centre after the demolition – was agreed to by the Hindu and Muslim organisations that had petitioned the Supreme Court against the HC verdict.

The bench of justices Alam and Lodha was critical of the HC judgment that ordered partition of the disputed 2.77 acres of land. “The fundamental nature of the decree (partition of land) was not sought by any party. The high court has gone on a very new path. This is something very surprising. This is a case where entirely new dimension is given by the high court.”

‘Fundamental error by HC’

Therefore, the HC judgment must be stayed. Further proceedings will also be stayed relating to drawing up of the decree by the HC,” the Supreme Court bench said.

The bench, which allowed Sunni Wakf Board, guardian of the idol, Nirmohi Akhara and Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind to make their submissions, said the HC committed a “fundamental error” in deciding the title suits. “How can decree for partition be passed as the HC has done? Something very strange has been done by the HC on its own when no party had sought such a relief,” the bench said.

A file photo of anti-US protests in Pakistan after tension peaked between the two allies over killings by Raymond Davis. (Reuters photo)

WASHINGTON: The CIA and ISI, respectively US and Pakistani intelligence agencies, which were once joined at the hip during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, are now torn apart from head to heart.

Ties between the two spook outfits have hit an all-time low after Pakistani media outlets leaked the name of the CIA station chief in Islamabad for the second time this year, as reported by Times of India last weekend, even as the two sides wrangled over the Raymond Davis episode.

US officials said on Monday that they were not withdrawing their man in Islamabad as they did on the previous occasion when Pakistan outed the previous Islamabad station chief Jonathan Banks. Pakistan maintained that the leaked name (purportedly a “Mark Carlton”) of his replacement was not the correct moniker.

“If we were going to release the name, we would release the right one,” an unnamed Pakistan official was quoted as saying. Some reports suggested the name was mispelt.

But the damage has been done. US analysts believe the Pakistani move is a shot across the US bow, since Washington had recently asked Islamabad for the names of all the operatives of the ISI’s “S” division, which is said to handle ties with terrorist organization, and which the Obama administration, at the very least, believes may have been aware of bin Laden’s hiding in Abbottabad. Taken together with the Pakistani security establishment’s persistent demand that Washington withdraw CIA personnel inside Pakistan, despite their stellar role in tracking down Osama bin Laden, the episode signals the end of the decades long fraternal dalliance between the two spy agencies that had its best moments during the Soviet presence in Afghanistan.

In those halcyon days, the CIA worked hand-in-glove with ISI (and the ISI, the joke went, worked hand-in-pocket with CIA), as the United States funneled billions of dollars to Pakistan in an effort to oust Soviet troops from Afghanistan. US lawmakers were conducted to the front-lines by the ISI where they posed for pictures with the Afghan mujaheddin – photos which adorned their Capitol Hill offices just before 9/11.

The suspicion in intelligence circles for the latest leak is focused on a senior Pakistani military official, Maj.Gen Athar Abbas, who is in charge of media relations in Islamabad. The alleged name of the CIA station chief was first broadcast on ARY television channel in which the military official’s brother, Mazhar Abbas, is a news director. It was subsequently picked up by the right-wing newspaper, Nation, which is widely seen as a mouthpiece of the Pakistani security establishment.

The same newspaper also printed the name of the previous CIA station chief Jonathan Banks, necessitating his hurried withdrawal from Islamabad. On other occasions, the newspaper has also published the coordinates of US officials and personnel in Pakistan, which Washington sees as endangering their security at a highly volatile time in a country where anti-American sentiments are rampant.

According to intelligence sources, the breakdown in ties began after Pakistan’s army chief Pervez Ashfaq Kiyani, began a review of the civilian government’s policy of acceding to US demand to station a large number of American security experts in Pakistan in the hunt for high-value al-Qaida targets. The US is said to have used the opening to also track other terrorists groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, which were fostered by the ISI, a development that led to the flashpoint involving CIA contractor Raymond Davis.

The Pakistani security establishment is blaming President Zardari and his Washington mandarin Hussain Haqqani for giving visas to some 7000 US personnel. Haqqani has rejected the charges. “7000 figure is incorrect & official records prove hype on subject is totally fabricated. All procedures followed,” Haqqani tweeted on Sunday amid growing tensions within the Pakistani government.

CIA and ISI, once joined at the hip, now daggers drawn

Comments (12)

Recommended (6)

Sid Harth Harth (Washington, DC) 2 mins ago (04:36 AM)

ISI has become CIA’s discarded asset, oops, better half. Yes, ISI is a mile ahead of the intelligence in the Bermuda triangle, oops, China, India and Afghanistan triangle. China, so far, has kept out of Pakistan’s entanglement with CIA. Good business policy on the part of China. Why worry about their sexual, oops, asexual relations? They are to fall apart, naturally or unnaturally. China was a mighty empire even before India (sic). Their culture is full of court intrigues and their bureaucratic foundations. India cannot, now or in future, ever compete with that Dragon. Sleeping Dragon China is not. The only Communist country in the world has shed her foreign policies. They are mighty in the real term. They hold America’s home mortgage and if, things get little rough, they may foreclose. This is not a prediction on my part, just a warning signal to both fighting fools. Both of these idiots have been founded on rebellion. America, with their parent, Great Britain. Pakistan preferred diplomatic means and America with guns. America, in those good times of Nixon administration, wanted China in their camp. As against that of Soviet Union. Pakistan helped. America has a very selective memory. They deny anything that makes them fools that they are. Only an idiot would hide the facts such as Pakistan and America’s shady past, as far as overt and covert ops they sponsored and the secrets they shared. This is a betrayal of trust and moral obligations, Uncle Sam!

…and I am Sid Harth

gompiepie (new york) 1 hr ago (03:34 AM)

Dealing with ISI is CIA’s problem alone. I request American toesucker MMS not to implicate India in their misadventures. Agree (2)Disagree (1)

the shadow of god (=) 1 hr ago (03:18 AM)

It’s time the Chinese realised that Pakistan is nobody’s friend. All the Chinese Intelligence agents monitoring these forums……. TAKE CAUTION…. Soon, Pakistan is gonna bite you too. Agree (10)Disagree (1)Recommend (2)

Black Cat (India) 1 hr ago (03:10 AM)

*** CIA and ISI, which were once joined at the hip… ***…. We always knew that CIA was BEHIND the ISI ALL THE TIME. Koi nayi baat batao yaar… Agree (9)Disagree (1)Recommend (2)

Truth (India) replies to Black Cat 1 hr ago (03:24 AM)

It is also said that the CIA had a hand in the death of Dr. Homi Bhabha in that plane crash. Agree (9)Recommend (2)

ravikanth (Gabon ) 2 hrs ago (02:19 AM)

If we remember the past 10 years back and before 9/11 attacks, Kashmir became a hot issue for throughout the world. By that time India diplomats taken big struggle to prove in UN, it is nothing but a ISI trained terrorist creation. At the same time India has show a lot of evidence to UN. But Sr.Bush administration never and ever consider the voice of India. By that time CIA was in active roll in investigate the actual truth. That also CIA & ISI are moving together shoulder to shoulder. The result was Indian reports became scraped at UN level. Now OBL storey was over, what next ? ? ? Again Kashmir will become hot issue for US as well as Pak. Again CIA & ISI are move together. It is temporary indifference for them. Always pak was benefited by US before OBL , at time of OBL and after OBL. US have a great kind heart towards Pak, coz US cannot give up Pak. Logistically Pak located for their military base. So No one should not worry or suspect about their relations. CIA & ISI are good friends for ever. Agree (11)Recommend (1)

NS (US) 2 hrs ago (01:40 AM)

“If we were going to release the name, we would release the right one,” an unnamed Pakistan official was quoted as saying. Some reports suggested the name was mispelt. –spot the irony in this sentence-lol Agree (11)Disagree (1)Recommend (2)

Mahendra (Mumbai) 3 hrs ago (01:19 AM)

Issue is simple, Paki since its exstance surviving on typical black mailing by women or Drugs or Terrorism.Typical a state itself is engaged in underworld activity. In the name creating enemity with India in the name of Kashmir exploited US and Middle east. Now(Last 10 years) terrorism also is their weapon.Milked idiotic west and US in the name of Al Qaeda.The main survival of that country is blackmailing and getting aid from foreign sources. Agree (20)Disagree (2)Recommend (10)

Arvind (mumbai) replies to Mahendra 2 hrs ago (01:58 AM)

although I’m Indian, and rather patriotic about it – i think this problem has to be seen from an objective point of view something you’re not doing – blaming everything on the one enemy you have is never the way to go, as they say ‘taali eek haath se nahi bajti’ you have to look at both sides of the argument and you sitting on the back of your computer slagging of pakistan or any other country will never understand this, all you’re doing is spreading the hatred – not fitting for the most diverse city in India, its a shame really. Agree (10)Disagree (11)Recommend (2)

kishor (Mumbai) replies to Arvind 26 mins ago (04:12 AM)

Mr ArvindPakistani, Indian not creating any hatred but all Pakistani terrorist gorups creating hatred in Kashmir and all other places. As U.S.(Obama) telling ISI is connected with Bin Laden( terrorists). Big Don Dowd Ibrahim was living in Karachi for long time and financing all the Terrorist activity all over the world. Dowd has relation with Miandad and Pakistani cricket board and doing all the Match fixing deals. He change his location as soon as Bin Laden got killed. He is the next.Better wake up.

WASHINGTON/NEW DELHI: Billionaire Mukesh Ambani-led Reliance Industries, which has been expanding its presence in the US, has surprisingly cut down its expenses for lobbying among the American lawmakers to a record low level.

RIL spent a total of USD 1,20,000 (about Rs 54 lakh) on lobbying in the US during the first quarter of 2011 — making it the lowest amount for a quarter ever since RIL began lobbying for its interests in American power corridors in 2009.

Through its lobbyist Barbour Griffith & Rogers LLC (BGR), RIL spent USD 1,20,000 on lobbying for its interest in the US Senate, the US House of Representatives and the US Department of State in the January-March 2011 quarter, as per the latest lobbying disclosure documents filed with the Senate.

RIL lobbied for its case in domestic and foreign trade areas and BGR provided “strategic counsel on issues related to trade,” as per its lobbying disclosure report for the quarter.

Prior to the latest quarter, RIL has been spending USD 190,000 on lobbying with the US lawmakers during the every quarter ever since the first quarter of 2009.

RIL had filed its lobbying registration report with the Senate in February 2009.

So far, RIL has spent a total of USD 1.64 million (about Rs 7.5 crore) ever since it began lobbying in the US in 2009.

RIL has been expanding its US presence through shale gas asset purchases for its core energy business in recent months.

The first instance of RIL lobbying among the US lawmakers — in the first quarter of 2009 when it paid about Rs one crore to its lobbyist BGR — came at a time when it was facing possible sanctions by the Barack Obama administration for its business ties with Iran.

The first disclosure about RIL’s lobbying expenses in April 2009 came in the midst of the US Senate and the House of Representatives debating new bills to authorise Obama to put strong penalties, including a ban on doing business in the US, against the companies supplying petroleum products to Iran.

RIL, along with five European companies, had been named by the US lawmakers for action for doing business with Iran.

Lobbying is legal in the US and all the lobbyists there are required to file a quarterly report with the Senate, detailing their clients, the departments with whom they were lobbying and the fees charged for the same.

The issue of lobbying has created a big controversy in recent months after leakage of taped conversations a corporate lobbyist had with people from politics, business and media.

The controversy led to talks of government considering to frame regulations for lobbying activities. However, the government and private companies have been officially lobbying in the US for many years to put forward their cases with the American government and lawmakers.

My following comment was posted but, as yet, not published. Must be a case of fear of reprisal from Ambani empire. The Empire strikes back. Between the two of them TOI must receive a major advertising revenue. Dhirubhai Ambani’s death anniversary is celebrated by Mukesh, with a full color, front page, technicolor advertisements. Sometimes, on that day, the entire media, print media, receives preprinted suppliments of many pages to be distributed gratis to the readers. Not just English media but all languages of India. A most Vulgar display of Ambani’s wealth, I say. OOps, TOI is alive. May Allah be praised. Holy Hindu Cow! What Now?

Comments (12)

Recommended (6)

Sid Harth Harth (Washington, DC) 8 mins ago (02:49 AM)

Mukesh and his little, oops, insignificant, brother reminds me old Hindi song. “kaisi yeh jodi banaye mere raam.” I must translate this to the English speaking audience. “What an idiot pair.” The money, oops, moolah, that inherited from daddy, oops, big daddy, oops, big, bad, oops, “badtamiz,” daddy, Dhirubhai Ambani, was made with sheer thuggery. Yes, I love and admire Dhirubhai’s guts and gumption. I even see as a pioneer. He made a little village idiot that he was, a grammar school dropout, into a very courageous entrepreneur. Free enterprise makes such ordinary village idiots into fancy-schpancy leaders of the capitalist clan. So far so good. His soul might stir in the heaven, oops, hell, if he could read my comment. Money earning, money grabbing, money hoarding, money spreading like manure, are all accepted methods by capitalist, cults. Yes, capitalism is a cult of most daring, most corrupt, the most immoral and illegal people. Dhirubhai was a card carrying member of that cult. He was feted by most all Gujaratis and some other business minded Hindus. The fact remains that his rise in the business world was due to his reckless pursuit of money. Money is power and such monies that he acquired during his lifetime is what I call, tainted money, if not blood money. Mukesh and Anil stand tall because of Dhirubahi’s loot. As they say, end is what capitalists aim at. Not means. Politicians and businessmen have one thing in common, power. The bottom line?

…and I am Sid Harth

suhemin (Hyderabad) 8 hrs ago (06:22 PM)

There is rally no difference between mentality of Arab nations and RIL. They just take prode in figures. But where is value addition? Where is basic R&D? Unless these things are there they will not move up in value chain.

The money you guys are talking is worth a PENNY / Cent/ Paise or nothing to the US lobbyists. Ambani is a cheapscape and we talk money in Millions of $$ and not cents like you folks are reporting. People make these $ 120,000 in salaries no jokes. Stop making this as if Amabni is spending a fortune. It is a penny for us and for him. Agree (3)Recommend (1)

Dr.Trivedi (Bangalore) 08 May, 2011 07:54 PM

Mukesh Ambani is not a fool, he is king of business world, and my dear you should realize that ones Ex Senate member of USA Condoliza Rice commented on his business skill the nyse crashed. so i think we should doubt his capabilities. Agree (2)Disagree (5)

Sid Harth Harth (Washington, DC) 08 May, 2011 03:50 PM

My little Bro, oops, ‘bhai,’ Mukesh,, have you lost your mind?, oops, millions? Peanuts, my Bro, ‘cowries,’ if you ask me. Loosen the strings of your purse, oops, ‘batwa.’ You are talking to America, not to Narendra Modi, oops, Neera Radia. You gotta spread your manure, oops, millions on K Street super lawyer, first, before your little kitchen garden can grow. Believe me, been there and done that. I love these young, brave pioneers of India, Inc. They are like America’s answer, oops, India’s answer to American gun toting, rootin’ tootin’ shootin’ highway men of the good old days of American history. Only thing that is different is that ‘mara mukes bhai,’ my brother Mukesh in Gujarati, outsources his job to K street lobbying firms. How silly! Hire VHP goons, give them a ‘carte blanche,’ like Narendra Modi and there shall be rivers of blood on the American State Streets, oops, Senate Street, oops, Congress Street, whatever. Just kidding. You, among all the Indian millionaires, your little contentious brother, Anil do wattcha gotta do to stay alive in the millionaires jungle. Pay your debt to the society by generously donating part of your loot to the charitable organizations, oops, you don’t, according to my good buddy, Warren Buffett of Omaha Nebraska. Take for instance, Bill Gates. He, poor soul, comes to India, goes to the shanty-towns, little hamlets, and distributes vaccine to little babies. What do you do? Distributes peanuts?, oops, ‘Cowries?’ Fini …and I am Sid Harth Agree (6)Disagree (23)Recommend (5)

Sachin (Dubai) replies to Sid Harth Harth 12 hrs ago (02:06 PM)

Hahaha… Sid, I am very happy that you are not in India… Oops! ;-) Agree (3)Recommend (1)

Nav (Shangai) replies to Sid Harth Harth 18 hrs ago (07:52 AM)

WTF are you talking… just go back and read your post. I have heard of people stammering but you seem to stammer while writing RTOF… Oops Agree (10)Recommend (5)

they are not happy with small peanuts, they need billion like arab, who spend billlion in stock,property and lost everything, american system is big gambling,,goto there a becoming hero, but long run,,become zero,,,,bankrupt, Agree (31)Disagree (1)Recommend (10)

Mukesh Ambani, India’s richest man and Chairman of Reliance Industries Ltd. (RIL), received 150 million rupees ($3.4 million) as compensation in the last fiscal year, unchanged for the third straight time.

The salary of the head of India’s biggest company by value remained at 41.6 million rupees, while commissions doubled to 92.4 million rupees, according to Reliance’s annual report for the year ended March 31. Retirement benefits fell to 10 million rupees from 56 million rupees and perquisites and allowances were maintained at 6 million rupees.

In October 2009, Ambani cut his pay to 150 million rupees for the year ended March 31, 2010 from 440.2 million rupees after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh called for austere salaries. Ambani, 54, is the world’s ninth-richest man with an estimated wealth of $27 billion, according to Forbes magazine.

The pay of Reliance Industries Directors Nikhil Meswani and Hital Meswani rose to 110.1 million rupees and 110.3 million rupees respectively from 109.3 million rupees last year, according to Bloomberg calculations from the Mumbai-based company’s annual reports. P.M.S. Prasad, executive director at the explorer, got 23.7 million rupees.

Lakshmi Mittal, 60, chairman of steelmaker ArcelorMittal, is the richest Indian with $31.1 billion and Baidu Inc. CEO Yanhong Li with $9.4 billion is the richest Chinese, according to Forbes.

To contact the reporter on this story: Rakteem Katakey in New Delhi at rkatakey@bloomberg.net.

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Amit Prakash at aprakash1@bloomberg.net.

NEW DELHI: Billionaire industrialist Mukesh Ambani has decided to forego Rs 23.75 crore for the last fiscal from his annual compensation as chief of Reliance Industries while keeping his salary capped at Rs 15 crore for third year in a row.

At the same time, the company’s total remuneration for top management personnel, as also commission paid to non-executive directors, declined during fiscal 2010-11.

In its annual report for the fiscal, the company said that “The Chairman and Managing Director’s compensation has been set at Rs 15 crore as against Rs 38.75 crore that he is elgible as per the shareholders’ approval…”

RIL said the decision was taken to reflect “his desire to continue to set a personal example for moderation in managerial compensation levels.” Ambani’s salary has remained at Rs 15 crore since the fiscal 2008-09.

At a time when there was a raging debate on right-sizing of CEO salaries, RIL had announced in October 2009 that Mukesh Ambani would take a pay cut as a result of which his pay package dropped to Rs Rs 15 crore for 2008-09 fiscal from over Rs 44 crore in 2007-08.

At that time, the company had also decided to adopt the capped structure method of working out executive compensation in RIL, instead of pegging it as a percentage of net profit. In fiscal 2010-11, Mukesh Ambani’s pay included Rs 4.16 crore as salary, Rs 60 lakh as perquisites and allowances, Rs 1 crore as retiral benefits and Rs 9.24 crore as commissions.

While his salary as also perquisites and allowances was unchanged from last fiscal, the retiral benefits fell from Rs 5.6 crore and commission rose from Rs 4.64 crore in 2009-10.

Among top management personnel, Executive Director PMS Prasad’s total remuneration rose to Rs 2.37 crore in fiscal ended March 31, 2011, from Rs 1.53 crore in the previous year. However, remuneration of each of two other directors, Nikhil Meswani and Hital Meswani, declined to Rs 11.05 crore, from Rs 11.14 crore in previous fiscal.

The total remuneration for top management during the period fell to Rs 40.67 crore, from Rs 40.90 crore, while commission to non-executive directors declined to Rs 1.68 crore from Rs 1.75 crore.

A non-executive director is paid sitting fee of Rs 20,000 for every board or committee meeting, besides the annual commission of Rs 21 lakh a year subject to a cap of 1 per cent of the company’s net profit.

My following comment has been forwarded to Mukesh Ambani for moderation by special courier. Latest update (1). Mukesh Ambani household, all there 600 servants have gone to take shower, oops, a dip in the Bay of Bengal, oops, Arabian sea at Chowpati beach. Later, they may or may not use the Municipal facilities called, “Sulabh Sauchalaya,” for additional bodily functions, including a bath. Stay tuned to more recent updates. Oops, ET decided to moderate themselves and the comment appears, LIVE.

Readers’ opinions (1)

Sid Harth Harth (Washington, DC)

Ain’t that cute, oops super cute, oops supper cut in the executive salaries at Reliance Industries. I call such antics as, simply, shenanigans. Perhaps, I am not clear you understand my American language. It is a slang word. Not yet incorporated in any major dictionaries. Try one more expression, “slamming, oops, slumming.” Yeah! That’s what our darling Gujarati Big Boss is doing. Please don’t tell me, let me guess, Mukesh has ordered to demolish ten floors of his ugly mansion and decided to give pink slips to his 600 personal slaves, oops, employees who are taking care of his family of four, oops, forgot Ba Ambani. I am also sure that he ordered all his indoor plumbing. Turn all bath-rooms, oops, bath-halls into prayer halls for the poor, destitute, abandoned and sick of his company, oops, country. Moreover, since there wouldn’t be any running water in his mansion, he would go to “munshipalti sulabh shouchalaya,” at Chowpati, Bombay, oops, “aamchi mumbai” a stone’s throw away form his, now, restructure mansion on the hill, oops, Malabar Hill, oops, hill of beans.” My dear Mukesh, oops, Mukesbhai, do you think that cuts in the salary makes you a hero? No, no and NO. Your head is in the cloud, oops, cloud nine. You do not have any idea as to how poor of Mumbai are. Just look outside of your window, oops, picture window. What do you find? Not up there, down there at the bottom of the hill. People are sleeping on the sidewalks. Throw some loose change to them. Fini.

The Allahabad High Court gave its verdict on Sept 30, 2010 dividing the disputed las between the three parties.

THE DISPUTE:

The centuries-old Babri mosque in Ayodhya, northern India, was demolished on December 6, 1992 by some Hindu mobs, which triggered one of the worst riots that killed about 2,000 people.

The 47-acre (19-hectare) site, one of the tightly guarded places in India, is currently cordoned off with barbed wire and steel fencing.

Hindu organizations represented by the Hindu Mahasabha, Muslims by Babri Masjid Action Committee and another trust by name Nirmohi Akhara are the major litigants in the 60-year-old court case.

Chronology:

Here is a chronology of major events in the dispute ever since the construction of the mosque in the early 16th century.

1528: Babri Masjid built in Ayodhya with blessings from the then Mughal ruler Babar by one of his nobleman Mir Baki. The Hindus say the mosque was built after razing an 11th century temple of Lord Rama in the area which they believe was his birthplace.

1859: Following seven years of communal riots and violence over the site, the British rulers erect fencing to separate Hindu and Muslim worshipping areas.

1949: Idols of Ram, Sita and Laxman found inside the mosque allegedly placed by Hindus on the night of Dec 22-23. The government declares the premises disputed and locks the gates.

1950: Gopal Singh Visharad files the first title suit seeking court permission to offer worship at the disputed site, followed by another by Paramhans Ramchandra Das. Worshipping was allowed but inner gates remain locked.

1959: Nirmohi Akhara, a trust files the third title suit seeking direction to hand over the charge of the disputed site from the receiver, claiming to be its custodian.

1961: Fourth suit was filed by Muslim Central Board of Wakf for declaration and possession of the site.

1984: A group of Hindus form a committee led by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad to ‘liberate’ the birth place of Lord Rama and build a temple there. BJP leader LK Advani begins his campaign.

1986: A district judge orders to open the gates of the disputed area, permitting Hindus to worship there. Muslims set up the Babri Masjid Action Committee in protest.

1989: Another suit is filed for declaration and possession and VHP joins the row.

1990: VHP volunteers partially damage the mosque.

1991: Riding on the popular wave in favor of the construction of Ram temple, BJP comes to power in the state of Uttar Pradesh where the disputed site is located and forms the provincial government.

Dec 6, 1992: Babri Masjid is demolished by ‘kar sevaks’, or those who volunteered to offer services for a religious cause.

1993: Central government steps in and takes over control of the entire 67-acre land in and around the disputed site.

1994: Supreme Court orders status quo on all cases till the title suit is settled.

1998: BJP forms the government at the national level for 13 days.

1999: BJP forms a coalition government at the centre which lasted for 13 months.

2000: The BJP government comes to power again at the Centre and lasted full term.

2002: Allahabad high court bench begins hearing the title suit case.

2009: The Liberhan Commission is set up to investigate the case of mosque’s demolition and submits its report after 17 years.

July 26, 2010: High court special bench completes hearing arguments from both sides, reserves verdict.

Sept 17: The Lucknow bench of Allahabad high court rejects a plea seeking to defer the Sept 24 verdict over the title dispute.

Sept 24: High court’s verdict on the title suit case is postponed.

Sept 28: Supreme Court rejects the petition to defer the Allahabad High Court’s verdict on Ayodhya.

Sept 30: Allahabad Hight gives its verdict, divides the disputed land equally to three major parties — Hindus, Muslims and the trust Nirmohi Akhara. Muslim and Hindu organizations move the Supreme Court.

May 9, 2011: Supreme court stays the verdict of Allahabad high court.

Comments 1

Sid HarthMay 09 2011 at 10:24 AM

Popularly called, ‘Ramjanmabhumi,’ by the right wing fundamentalists, oops, Hindutva fundamentalists, is a barren hill. Atop this hill was a five a 400 hundred years old Mosque, “Babri.” Legend says that it was named after Babur, the first Turkish emperor of the so called “Mughal,” Hindi for Mongol or Mongolian dynasty. Before him the same northern territory of India was ruled by various other, oops, foreign born rulers, including but not limited to, the Aryans. Sher Shah Suri, an Afghan, was defeated by Babur and banished him. Babur occupied some of the north-eastern territory and established himself as a king, oops, a Sultan, oops, ‘shehenshah,’ king of kings. His capital was Lahore, capital city of Punjab state in Pakistan. Babur’s grandson, Akbar expanded his empire further to east and south. It is customary to name Mosques, cities streets in the name of important rulers and/or heroes. I do not believe that Babur constructed that mosque. Perhaps by his deputies or territorial warlords. The Mosque neighborhood changed since and Muslims did not perform any prayers in the dilapidated and neglected Mosque for several years. The trusties, “Waqf Board” of local Muslims wanted to negotiate with the buyers of the land as well as the Mosque. Negotiations were going on for a long time. It must be on the price, nothing else. Definitely not communal. RSS, the fountain head of the fundamentalists and VHP their vigilante branch decided to grab the land and the Mosque with a massive Muslim vilification campaign. The hysteria, thus created and fomented, caused the demolition. There were attempts to investigate the crimes committed by the Hindus, and later, by the Muslims as the after this vagrant vandalism of Hindus, Muslims retaliated in kind. There were vocal protests all over India and in Bombay and there were bloody street fights. When this sad incidence happened, BJP party, a political branch of RSS, was in power. Subsequent administrations did not pursue the case. It took seventeen years for the special commission appointed to find the truth about illegal destruction of Babi Mosque, to submit their findings. Lot of noise was made by BJP, RSS, VHP and others over this report. No action was taken to punish the guilty leaders, including but not limited to, L K Advani, among others, have not spent a single day in prison, where they belong.

NEW YORK: The US has demanded the identities of some of Pakistan’s military-run ISI’s top operatives as it tries to determine whether any of them had contact with Osama bin Laden or his agents in the years before the raid that killed the dreaded terrorist early this week.

Quoting unnamed US officials, the New York Times said members of the US administration have expressed deep frustration with Pakistani military and intelligence officials for their refusal over the years to identify members of the ISI , who were believed to have close ties to the al-Qaeda chief.

“In particular, American officials have demanded information on what is known as the ISI’s directorate, which has worked closely with militants since the days of the fight against the Soviet army in Afghanistan,” the daily said.

“It’s hard to believe that (army chief Ashfaq Parvez) Kayani and (ISI Director General Shuja) Pasha actually knew that bin Laden was there,” a senior administration official was quoted as saying.

But, the official speaking on condition of anonymity, added, “there are degrees of knowing, and it wouldn’t surprise me if we find out that someone close to Pasha knew.”

The Obama administration officials, however, stopped short of accusing Pakistan government — either privately or publicly — of complicity in the hiding of bin Laden in the years after the September 11 attacks.

NYT said one senior US official privately acknowledged that the administration sees its relationship with Pakistan as too crucial to risk a wholesale break, even if it turned out that past or present Pakistani intelligence officials did know about bin Laden’s whereabouts.

Pakistani investigators involved in piecing together bin Laden’s life during the past nine years said this week that he had been living in Pakistan’s urban centres longer than previously believed, the daily said.

My following comment was posted but, as yet, not published. ET nutts are having a debate upon it, I bet. Morons, get a life. Either shit or get off the pot, oops, spoke too soon. ET is alive and shitting, oops, shooting my comment. May Allah be praised!.

Readers’ opinions (1)

Sid Harth (Washington, DC)

Zulu 12:00 Situation Room, White House Leon Panetta: “Boss, we have a problem.” Boss: “Not again, you moron. I am tired of your constant chant, “problem, problem and more problems. Just once in my lifetime, can’t anyone leave me alone to be the president, oops, the Boss. Why is everybody picking on me?” Leon Panetta: “Boss, we do leave you alone to play Big Daddy, oops, Father knows the best, oops, Big Brother is watching, fun and games. Don’t us all? All red necks are putting you, the first black, oops, African-American, on the pedestal, the pedestal as big as the mount Everest. What is your problem, Sir. Ain’t that big enough for you?” Boss: Stop kidding. I am at the top. I know it. I can feel it in my bones, migod, it’s cold in here. Get me some hot java. Hurry up. I am freezing my presidential buns.” Leon Panetta: “Boss, is this a time and a place for such silly talk? We have a problem. Didn’t you hear it the first time I tol’ ya?” Boss: “I can’t hear nuttin’, My ears are full of buzz, oops hoopla, oops, the biggest and baddest jingoistic, oops, moronic, oops, chaotic, oops, frantic, oops, rustic rumbling like a great earth shaking, oops, ground swelling rootin’, tootin’ shootin’ humongous hoopla. It is lonely at the top. Do you hear me, my main man, oops, CIA man?” Leon Panetta: “Yes Boss, I hear you. Loud and clear. What shall we do to these Pakistani (expletive deleted) ISI devil’s disciples?” Boss: “Send the Navy Seals, for godssake. Pronto”

Read more on »white house|Washington|Pentagon|Pakistan|Islamabad|CIA|Al Zawahiri

WASHINGTON: The United States answered Pakistan’s belligerent threat of ”dire consequence” for America in the event of another violation of its sovereignty with another punitive Drone strike on Friday, as Washington’s focus shifted to Mullah Omar, Al Zawahiri and other terrorists it believes are hiding in that country.

In a severe response to the Pakistani military’s effort to draw a line in the sand, including warning that it would stop cooperating with US, Washington continued its pattern of bombing terrorist targets each time Islamabad voiced such defiance. Friday’s strike in the Datta Khel region, which reportedly killed 12 militants, came as US lawmakers and the administration grappled with how to bring its dodgy and confrontational ally to heel.

The big development over the past few weeks is that the American military-intelligence establishment, for long a patron of Pakistan, has turned against its charge, while it is the civilian side that is trying to save Islamabad’s hide. The Pentagon and CIA seem convinced of Pakistan’s double game and hell-bent on exposing it and punishing it despite tactical dependence on its “ally” for the war effort in Afghanistan. Sections of the State Department and the Hill are inclined to give it the benefit of doubt because of what some believe is the country’s strategic importance.

The Raymond Davis saga was being invoked again on Friday when it emerged that the CIA, with human assets on the ground, monitored for several weeks the Abbottabad compound where bin Laden was staying without informing the Pakistanis – because they did not trust them. The surveillance, from a rented house nearby, involved evading Pakistani intelligence which has been trying to disrupt CIA efforts to nail terrorists – a spy vs spy drama that led to the Raymond Davis episode.

While Pakistan’s military-intelligence establishment is demanding the US cut down its footprint and personnel inside Pakistan (fearing its ties to terrorists would be exposed, according to some analysts), it transpires that the intelligence assets CIA created on the ground, since withdrawn after the job was done, is what helped zero in on bin Laden.

Operating from of a safehouse, the surveillance team assembled a ”pattern of life” portrait of the compound using a variety of techniques and technologies to zero in on a tall man they ended up calling the ”pacer” because of the hour long walks he took in the compound. They could never determine with 100 per cent certainty if it was bin Laden, but gathered enough for US President Obama to order a commando operation to identify him with certainty and eliminate him.

There is now pressure on the administration to go after other key terror operators sheltered by Pakistan. ”That Bin Laden was hiding in plain sight demonstrates the complicity of the Pakistan government. Now that he has been eliminated, the question should be: Who is next?” posed Bing West, a former assistant secretary of defence, answering, ”This is not the time for the White House to take a bow and lower the curtain on the stage. Instead, Omar should be the next to be struck down.” Others are demanding US intensify the hunt for Ayman al Zawahiri and other terrorists.

Washington is convinced that Pakistan is sheltering Mullah Omar and his so-called Quetta Shura, not to speak of the Haqqani group, which Pakistan’s army chief Ashfaq Kayani has been heard describing as a ”strategic asset.” The big question is how much time the Americans have to zero in on them in the face of Pakistani demands that they withdraw their assets asap.

My following post was published but yanked out before I could read it. So much for the power of the press. Oops, the censored comment reapeared. It is a miracle. may Baba ET perform more miracles like this. Better than pulling “vibhiti,” sacred ashes, gold watches made in Switzerland or walking on water. Jai ho ET!

US hits Pakistan with another Drone strike as sights shift to Mullah Omar

Comments(1)

Sid Harth Harth (USA) 07 May, 2011 02:26 AM

I have heard more horrible stories about divorces played in the family courts, where both parties, with the help of their lawyers, throw all their weapons to gain whatever they both share. Mostly the custody of their children. Barack Obama, it seems, is taking no chances with his partner in crime, Pakistan, over the family dispute about their children. Yes I said children. The bad boys, in question, Mullah Omar, Al Zawahiri and other terrorists it believes are hiding in that country, Pakistan.Just a minute, I know you are going to ask me as to how these rascals, rogues and ruffians became US and Pakistan’s progeny? As they came from different countries with different heritage. The answer is, one created them, the father, the mighty superpower USA and the doting mother, Pakistan, took care of them, that’s how. If it were not for father Uncle Sam going and invading Muslim countries with flimsy excuses, these so called terrorists would not have been born. If it were not for the father to find faults with his illegitimate offspring, chasing them all over the world to punish them with a big stick, they would have remained in their own territories making noise, just noise. However, Uncle Sam cares very little for those who challenge his power. Well, one little orphan of a kid, Osama Bin Laden, did challenge Uncle Sam’s authority by blowing the Twin Towers. Osama came of age and his siblings rushed to support him. When in trouble, they came to their mother.

…and I am Sid Harth

Video: No parallel can be drawn between 9/11, 26/11: US

Ex-ISI Chief Hamid Gul: CIA “Choreographing” Osama Assassination Hoax

14:06 Alex talks with retired Pakistani Army three star general, Hamid Gul. Gul claims that it is wrong to say that the Pakistani government or the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) had been harbouring Al Qaeda leader and 9/11 mastermind Osama bin Laden.

The Pakistani Intelligence Service (The ISI) is a frigging JOKE 4:46 Added: 2 days ago

From: SirRobottoable Views: 726

All Comments (19)

what the fuck you know about the ISI asshole Bin laden was dead years ago you dumb fuck, they want to invade pakistan to run their pipe line and make Pakistan weaker, keep watching the stupid media and brainwash your﻿ dumb mind, you english people need to educate yourselves before you open your mouth, fuck you from Canada!! shanmirza007 1 day ago

@shanmirza007 You can’t say someone needs to educate themselves and half god awful grammar and spelling. Well, you can because you did, but it makes you look stupid.

What do I know about the ISI, I know they are a joke. If someone can hide less than a mile from the secret﻿ service HQ for 10 years, then, they are, in a word, wank.

SirRobottoable 1 day ago

*have﻿ SirRobottoable 1 day ago

@SirRobottoable i dont know if you know but the media reported that bin laden was dead﻿ 9 times over in the past 10 years, what the fuck you know about him anyways Osama is a rich person and is close to the CIA, its all for money and wars. The US wants to invade Pakistan and need an reason to do so the media will never tell you that! shanmirza007 5 hours ago

@SirRobottoable the British and US government are the biggest jokes!! and 80% of the﻿ world will agree! shanmirza007 5 hours ago

Now you paki fucksticks will pay.No more money from the US no more aid any polititian stupid enough to vote for giving pakistan anything other than the﻿ finger will be voted out on a rail.US needs to help our freinds in India with the cashmere problem. 19thSFGA 1 day ago

ISI is mother fuckers. they are all terrorist. Fuck﻿ them. ghafar1919 2 days ago

Please eradicate ISI, these guys (ISI) are master minded terrorist.﻿ I believe if you don’t destroy ISI the world will never be safe. ghafar1919 2 days ago

sir robottoable﻿ SHUT THE FUCK UP SON OF BITCH……………WE DON’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR COMMENTS. THEY COIN YOU STUPID WHITE MONKEYS… mak9256 2 days ago 4

Napaki scum of world, you will never learn from mistake and develope….same people listed in report have started screwing Pakistan and still you don’t learn. Idiot, stop watching adult show of Zaid Hamid﻿ and Maria B..

PAKISTAN IS IN A BETTER POSITION TO WIPE INDIA OFF THE MAP. AS IT HAS GOT MORE NUCLEAR WEAPONS THAN SHITHOLE INDIA.﻿ SO LISTEN SLUMDOGS IF YOU COW SHIT EATERS MESS WITH PAKISTAN THEN YOU BLACK BASTARDS WILL BE WIPED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH. superking445 6 minutes ago

I Thought Pakistan Was A Nation Full Of problems How Can They Defaet A Country Bigger And Stronger Than Them? Do They Like Lieing To There People﻿ To Make Them Selves Feel Better? Light48 7 minutes ago

pakistan can only bark,nothing more.why it ddnt attack US then?lol.dont mess up with indians,otherwise your future will be futureless.﻿ TheShuryansh 1 hour ago

OO FUCK india UP its ASS!! Indians are fuking dumb! We all have seen Indian media and pussy army blaming every single shit on Pakistan and now﻿ PUSSY indian government have seen the false drama of Ladens death as a good reason to get back at Pakistan. Thats exactly the reason why Pakistan army has grown way stronger over the years and now its serious shit dog! India or America = no tolerance. Dont test our patience… Indian peen de takke redandwhite00 10 hours ago

India should join NATO﻿ =) bloodyhawk989 11 hours ago

We all knew Bin Laden and major Islamic Terror leaders are in Islamic Terrorist State of Pakistan so why stupid U.S and West are so surprised.

Islamic Terrorism and Jihad has been Pakistan’s State Policy for over 40 years to blackmail the U.S and West to give them money and arms which Pakistan want to use against India.

I also blame the U.S and the West for giving aid and arms to Pakistan military and ISI who create, train and support Islamic Terror infrastructure﻿ in Pakistan.

htgajjar 12 hours ago

@htgajjar Only if you really knew as to whats going on in the news, that you wouldnt be shitting everywhere on youtube! Pakistan obtained Indian made artillery from many Talibans over the years. What about that? Pakistan has no reason to support al qaeda when we r fighting them in our tribal areas. But YES India would get the benefit by supporting Al qaeda and﻿ you know why. redandwhite00 10 hours ago

RAYMEND DAVIS CASE……………………U PEOPLE﻿ CAN DO NOTHING SO JUST KEEP POLISHING SHOES OF AMERICANS AND THEY WILL GIVE U MORE DOLLARS..LOL vikramkh07 16 hours ago

Hu Shih, former Ambassador of China to USA said: India conquered And dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having to send a single soldier across her border.﻿ vikramkh07 17 hours ago This has been flagged as spam show vikramkh07 17 hours ago

Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to humans. Charaka, the father of medicine consolidated Ayurveda 2500 years ago.﻿ Today Ayurveda is fast regaining its rightful place in our civilization. vikramkh07 17 hours ago

There are﻿ 3.22 Million Indians in America. 38% of Doctors in America are Indians. 12% of Scientists in America are Indians. 36% of NASA employees are Indians. 34% of MICROSOFT employees are Indians. 28% of IBM employees are Indians. 17% of INTEL employees are Indians. 13% of XEROX employees are Indians. vikramkh07 17 hours ago

PORKIS MUST BE PROUD TO PORKIS BECAUSE THEY﻿ EXPORT MOST NUMBER OF TERRORIST IN WHOLE WORLD AND SMUGGLE MOST LARGER QUANTITIES DRUGS IN THE WORLD…… vikramkh07 18 hours ago WHY I AM PROUD TO BE INDIAN 1 38 % DOCTORS IN USA ARE INDIAN 2 12 % SCIENTIST IN USA ARE INDIAN 3. 34 % MICROSOFT EMPLOYESS ARE INDIAN 4. 28 % EMPLOYESS OF IBM ARE INDIAN 5. 17 % OF INTEL SCIENTIST﻿ ARE INDIAN 6. INDIA INVENTED NUMBER 0 WHICH INDIAN SCIENTIST ARYBHATTA INVENTED. 7 ALGEBRA, TRIGNOMETRY, CALCULUS CAME FROM INDIA 8 CHESS INVENTED IN INDIA 9 ALBERT EINSTIN SAYS ” We owe lot to indians who teach us how to count” 10 SANSKRIT IS MOST SUITABLE LANGUAGE FOR COMPUTER AND THE LIST GOES.ON.. vikramkh07 18 hours ago

U WILL KNOW WHAT IS REALITY OF THIS COUNTRY IS, WHAT GOOGLE THINK , WHAT WORLD THINK vikramkh07 18 hours ago

Pakistan Army backed by our nuclear capability is a gift of God. And we are confident about the surprise it﻿ can give to India or any invasion, any time. We have seen in past wars how Pakistan displayed world records of shooting down Indian planes in shortest time and even shot Israeli planes entering our land. Only difference we are much stronger and more willing to break the web of lies woven by US, Israel and India. ThePerfectLand 19 hours ago

IT IS DEMAND OF EVERY COUNTRY TO UNITED NATIONS TO OFFICIALY DECLARE PAKISTAN A TERRIOST COUNTRY LIKE THEY DECLARED AS FAILED STATE…TO PAKISTAN﻿ vikramkh07 19 hours ago

Please stop talking and make your﻿ move if you dare. Pakistan awaits! 34000 of our innocent citizens you have killed through your valuable terrorist assets TTP by supporting them through US controlled side of Afghanistan. Please let us make this clear… We are waiting! This time our rule will not be for 1000 years but for whole eternity over you. haider2026 19 hours ago

ah India is only ready to strike becuase USA, Israel is backing it now on the sly pussy. India only tries to strike from behind. ﻿ usy444u 19 hours ago

@usy444u and why not, pakistan is friend of china so pakistan must be destroyed, lybia﻿ is friend of china, it must be destroyed, who ever is friend of china it will be destroyed, simple as that udical 19 hours ago

@udical well India needs to be destroyed its a cocksucker to imperialist who were responsible for killing millions Indian people. fuck India who ever is friend of imperialist must be destroyed so bye India you tramp dirty monkey, you have no self respect. i prefer china any day a country that has some balls and knows﻿ it history of what imperialist did to their people. usy444u 19 hours ago

dont know why India is bouncing up and down for, pussy bastard only acts hard when Pakistan is cornered never when﻿ Pakistan is not under pressure fucking colonist cocksukers. usy444u 19 hours ago

India needs to strike Pakistan immediately. Put an﻿ end once and for all to this criminal corrupt, regime in Pakistan. NotEasilyRegimented 20 hours ago 2

@NotEasilyRegimented﻿ – You will have to overcome China for that. Winning from Pakistan alone is a big DOUBT for you already. afnanmir7 20 hours ago

@afnanmir7 WHY ASHOLE WE HAVE TO OVERCOME CHOWMIN CHILLY…………IF WE WANT WE CAN DO IT………AS THERE IS NO SOVERNITY OF UR PORKI COUNTRY………..USA PROVED IT ……………IF WE GET A GO WE WILL DO IT……..REMEMBER﻿ 1997 WHEN 2 MIG 25 WENT OVERHEAD ISLAMABAD……..UPPL WERE SCRAMBLING UR JETS HAHAHA………GO CHECK SOME STATS…….PORKI ASSHOLE……..;-) saptarishi100 20 hours ago

IT IS NOW ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO DECLARE PAKISTAN OFFICIALLY TERRORIST COUNTRY AFTER FINDING OSAMA BIN﻿ LADEN WHO IS LIVING THERE FROM LAST 5-6 YEARS……… vikramkh07 21 hours ago

there is some bullshit﻿ about history going on that once osama bin laden was a friend of america when fighting against ussr what kind of a holy motherfucking shit is this ??????????? fuck you beard growing spectaled muslim clerics with no life and teaching evil to young kids fuck you!!!!!!!!!!!!! munuboluanil 21 hours ago

@munuboluanil

IT IS PROVEN THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN IS PRODUCTION OF CIA﻿ (CENTRAL INVESTIGATING AGENCEY ) OF USA WHICH THEY USED TO SPREAD EXTREMISIM IN FORMER USSR (RUSSIA) THEY SPONSERED HIM BY MONEY , WEAPONS , KNOW HOW EVERYTHING , WHEN THEY ACHIEVED THERE OBJECTIVES THEY THROW HIM, THATS WHAT THE POLICY OF AMERICA IS USE AND THROW …PAKISTAN IS ALSO GOING ON SAME PATH…..THEY HAVE USED IT AND NOW TIME TO THROW…. vikramkh07 21 hours ago

@vikramkh07﻿ blah blah borring udical 19 hours ago

@udical

BORING IS﻿ UR SISTER NOW WHICH I FUCKED HER ALOT NOW BRING UR ANOTHER SISTER LOL…. vikramkh07 19 hours ago

@vikramkh07 u south asians have on average about 70 point s in﻿ intelligence loool udical 18 hours ago

@munuboluanil

DO SOME GOOGLE…… KID THEN COME ON DEBATE﻿ vikramkh07 20 hours ago

Pakistan is the evil on earth i think one day the whole world will go after Pakistan because 70% of Pakistan is already out of control run by motherfucking jihadi out fits which teach youngsters and children to hate India and America instead of educating them and seek good jobs from day one the government is just a show off to the world that everything﻿ is fine but in reality doesnt have any control what so ever well just wait for it when NATO forces invade it and destroy it forever munuboluanil 21 hours ago

IT IS ONLY AMERICA WHO PRODUCE OSAMA TO SPILIT USSR NOW THEY ARE SHOWING HAPPINESS TO KILL HIM….9﻿ 11 IS INSIDE JOB….U KILLED YOUR OWN CIVILIANS U PIECE OF SHIT…….BLACK DOT ON THE FACE OF HUMANITY …. vikramkh07 21 hours ago

PAKISTAN COMES﻿ 2ND vikramkh07 21 hours ago

AMERICAS ARE﻿ MOST TERRORIST COUNTRY IN WORLD …WIKILEAKS vikramkh07 21 hours ago

@vikramkh07 if there were no americans u would all now be in concetracion working camps with jews and niggers, and now u say that, maybe hitler was right, u dirty skin people are﻿ way too stupid udical 19 hours ago

@udical You son of rotten ammi chuth..india has always fucked porkchop land right from the front….where is your sir zaid hamid now….maybe getting ass fucked by mullah omar or maybe poking his gay finger up his butt by thinking of osama….fuck off﻿ you beggar SUDHARSHAN22PRAHAR 19 hours ago Comment removed vikramkh07 21 hours ago

I am East Asian (Hong Kong, China), and I have deep respect for Indians. I believe India will become the next Superpower of Asia, returning to her rightful spot as a﻿ regional and world power, a position held for many centuries for one of the greatest civilizations on Earth. I hope China and India can become good partners, since we have mutual respect for each other, and we have been victims of European barbarism and colonialism. Phead128 21 hours ago

@Phead128

Yeah … i do agree with﻿ you vikramkh07 21 hours ago

@Phead128 if india and china become friends, usa must start III WW in several years and kill all east asians, that would be waaaay too dangerous﻿ for west udical 19 hours ago

@vikramkh07﻿ lool 80% of u people are hungry loooooooooooooooooooooooool go and die, we will derstroy u once for all, ur too stupid to exist, hitler was right udical 19 hours ago

@udical India feeds the world bitch…pakistan cant even handle a fucking flood…and eats 5 million usd from﻿ india in charity…what the fuck are you talking about…you motherfuckers are pretty much done…..your children are eating pig shit because your money has been invested into missiles which with bogus propaganda…your country survives on alms as bhikaris from america and even they have dumped shit on Porki (Paki) leaders. SUDHARSHAN22PRAHAR 19 hours ago

the dot-heads need the towel heads. War between both countries would serve no purpose.﻿ aslamali6 21 hours ago

This﻿ is silly! Both Pakistan and India need one another! A war between Pakistan and India would be suicidal for both countries!

Pakistan﻿ is a ridiculous “country”, and if you say that about me you´re ridiculous, too.Now through some neuclear bombs at yourselves. If you can, but it is probably too difficult. All right, then just use knives – in that field you´re experts. svrljig 1 hour ago

the best was Musharraf!!!He was all like the americans shouldnt have crossed pakistans border,its against the sovereignity of our country!!LOL!! The idiot doesnt have the balls to go back to his own country. hes just sitting in england and having a good time.Hide all u﻿ want Mushi ull b next on the list of most wanted men in the world!! thefpssoap 4 hours ago

OHRABA u from pakistan?? do us a favour and shut up or﻿ youtube will be declared illegal in ur country as well thefpssoap 4 hours ago

LOL!! they’re warning the indians lets see if they can do the﻿ same to the U.S:D

thefpssoap 4 hours ago

i feel sorry for Pakistanis there nationality is enough to make other kick their ass………….after osama bin laden’s death the whole world has cornered Pakistanis and its true colors have come out in the open its nothing but a ruined terrorist country﻿ with the government and civilians fighting for their life’s its existence will be short for sure. i picture bomb raids by NATO forces in the night like in Afghanistan showed live across TV channels especially al jajeera soon very soon…….. munuboluanil 4 hours ago

any small terrorist attack anywhere in the world in the coming days will bring huge bombs rain on the﻿ motherfucking pakistanis……… munuboluanil 5 hours ago

pakistan has nuclear warhead what a holy motherfucking cunt…………………. you will be a big shithead to believe that it has such advanced technology , so much money and that﻿ it actually works hahahaha fuck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pakistan is cheap ass bitch that will eventually get anal fucked one day for sure. munuboluanil 5 hours ago Comment removed munuboluanil 5 hours ago This has been flagged as spam show munuboluanil 5 hours ago

all mouth no action pakistan could not even stop america , now to show ther brawado they r warning india ////////////// sala chutia leaders r fools 40 minutes american in pak but pak were sleeping not to show how big they r , they r threatning india﻿ , just one question to pak ??? did indians came n inveded pakistan???? pakipiglover 9 hours ago

Who knew bin ladens death could usher in a world war..America is going to view pakistans defiance and china’s backing saying something so twisted that they are the ones behind 9/11 and used bin laden..i don’t like this﻿ at all 1988scottcarey 11 hours ago

This is what piss drinking does to a human being it makes you a﻿ Shit eating pig. alihammadshah 11 hours ago

@OHRABA Whole world know what india is capable of.U people always behave like dumbass when it comes 2 india;had u taken india as a competitor than u might have reached to some height;but u stubid people always put ur dirty heads inside the sand like a ostrich and wait for ur god to do something.Hers is my advice﻿ want 2 see the world’s view about pakistan den go and watch the movie “from paris with love”;dont feel ashamed of being a pakistani after the movie coz we might hire u as our slaves :D

vivek41176 12 hours ago This has been flagged as spam show vivek41176 12 hours ago

pakis are pussies US﻿ went in they kept mouthshut and when india came started barking bullshit CarbonDioxide1990 15 hours ago

@CarbonDioxide1990 b/c they get money﻿ from USA not from India dumb shit Umerabbasi 7 hours ago

@Umerabbasi when did﻿ in my statement I said about money dumshit! CarbonDioxide1990 6 hours ago

I just can﻿ not get it, how do they can make military raids inside each others countries? sunearthmoonjupiter 16 hours ago

It’s nonsense…India is not capable of anything other than Killings of Innocents in Kashmir including children as young as 6 months old.

Seems India forgot when pakistan army reached to kargil. Had US not﻿ interfered Kashmir would have been freed from India. India just brags and Pakistan do it!

OHRABA 18 hours ago

@OHRABA Dont’ be that stupid with your comments who you kidding?﻿ ambardarlane 13 hours ago

india are decent .,.pakis are the﻿ true disease of the planet ,, never trust a paki ,, i support india sparticus1able 18 hours ago

Indian Air Force And﻿ Military Are Losing Edge Over Pakistan, Pakistan Is getting Bigger And Much Powerful WATCH THIS

watch?v=L5Mk9TOrBF0 Makaveli175 18 hours ago

Our Army backed by our nuclear capability is a gift of God. And we are confident about the surprise it can give to India or any invasion, any time. We have seen in past wars how Pakistan displayed﻿ world records of shooting down Indian planes in shortest time and even shot Israeli planes entering our land. Only difference we are much stronger and more willing to break the web of lies woven by US, Israel and India. ThePerfectLand 19 hours ago

@ThePerfectLand hey !!! do you remember those 93,700 pants your army left behind? by the way did you people wiped your﻿ asses after fuck by american ? MeMurtad 18 hours ago This has been flagged as spam show MeMurtad 18 hours ago

@ThePerfectLand you may have nukes but dont have the capability to attack america with them, america funds pakistan 1.3 billion dollars a year, you guys dont have the money to wage a war with america, we will cut all supplies going in and out of pakistan you guys are not shit, we went in and﻿ out with binladen before pakistan even knew what happend. your war will be exactly like iraq, a few hundred american soldiers will die but millions of pakis will die and pakistan will be in ruin chris53890 18 hours ago

@ThePerfectLand you may have nukes but dont have the capability to attack america with them, america funds pakistan 1.3 billion dollars a﻿ year, you guys dont have the money to wage a war with america, we will cut all supplies going in and out of pakistan you guys are not shit, we went in and out with binladen before pakistan even knew what happend. your war will be exactly like iraq, a few hundred american soldiers will die but millions of pakis will die and pakistan will be in ruin chris53890 18 hours ago

@ThePerfectLand you sound like iraq and afganastan before we blew them up, pakistan﻿ isnt going to do shit, we went into your country and shit on you guys and all you can do is talk about it chris53890 18 hours ago

@ThePerfectLand you sound like iraq and﻿ afganastan before we blew them up, pakistan isnt going to do shit, we went into your country and shit on you guys and all you can do is talk about it chris53890 18 hours ago

@ThePerfectLand you set off a nuke your whole country﻿ will be rained upon my nukes. pakistan doesnt have the capability to hit america in the heart. you guys dont have enough money to go to war. pakistan will end up like iraq, few hundred american soldeirs killed with thousands of pakis dead and millions homeless..pakistan is not ready to fight with the big dogs chris53890 18 hours ago

@ThePerfectLand hahahahahh!! This﻿ guy is trying to be funny!!HHAHAHAHAH

thefpssoap 4 hours ago

no problem big hard India you tough now cos Pakistan is cornered by full NATO blackmail. typical colonist cocksuckers﻿ why strike on the sly declare right now you want war you desperate piss drinkers. Indians too much daal gas. usy444u 19 hours ago

@rodtorre7 then why do Indians have to give themselves false confidence by running war mongering on news dont say it just do it then we go from there bitch.﻿ now please move your statue gods before i breakem. anyway Gandhi was gay with that German guy dirty naked bastard. usy444u 19 hours ago

@rodtorre7 Fuck sake just come on you just got numbers vs Pakistan you pussy bastards you lot are call centre faggots not fighters. Now just pick up that fone and answer it. oh by the it was china that kicked your ass and even fed﻿ your solders wtf hahhah. now go suck on that fucking cows dick, you PISS DRINKERS. usy444u 1 hour ago

@Nam691 What if we﻿ nuke both India and Pakistan then change the names of both places to the north and south happy lands. BusinessEdgeRadio 18 hours ago

@BusinessEdgeRadio wouldn’t it﻿ b better if we stuffed both ur asses wid grenades and pulled the pins??extremism is the next terrorism.so shut ur cunt and stop crying like a pussy. thefpssoap 4 hours ago

@Nam691 alla allaah…ah ah ah thoo﻿ akbar rodtorre7 4 hours ago

@rodtorre7 gandu ke bache..﻿ Nam691 2 hours ago

It seems Al-Qaida founder Osama Bin Laden would have to wait for a few weeks before he﻿ could get his promised 72 virgins after death, as all the virgins are reported to be on strike since last Monday demanding a hike in salary.

we support india , pakistan has never won a﻿ war , never trust pakistan , mrmickyed 22 hours ago

safe heaven to terrorist automaticaly makes pak loose its argument , terrorist r in pak n goverment﻿ is harbouring jihadis n terrorists , so world can hit pak when ever it can n will happen n pak wont be able to do any thing . only one answer is say no to any terror in ur country . pakipiglover 22 hours ago

Be equally warned. You host people like Bin Laden, and throw away your legitimacy. Is it in the best interest of your﻿ country to host known mass murderers and terrorists? Going on offense is the wrong strategy and only damages your credibility further. The fact is that you DID have bl in your border, and it is NOT credible that it was not known. It is time to divorce yourselves immediately and permanently from the extremists, and exterminate the terrorists. freemanbrook 22 hours ago

Come clean or face action: US to Pak 4:54 Added: 1 day ago

From: newsxlive Views: 1,501

All Comments (37)

or else what, US will Nuke them – RLMAO, I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again, Does the US have what it takes to drop a Nuke to prove a point? Times have changed, Do expect a retaliation. Izreal, India, you are on the List. Like iran and Syria﻿ are on list, so to the both of you are on a list.. Phantasmos 13 hours ago This has been flagged as spam show TheZenzensen 14 hours ago

FUCK Pakistan. Those corrupt motherfuckers are sucking on Uncle Sam’s tit until it turns purple.﻿ Cut the ragheads off at the knees already. The USA is giving those two faced assholes BILLIONS of dollars per year??? For what??? So they could protect and give sanctuary to the most wanted man in the world??? And don’t buy into that “But we didn’t know bin laden was here.” bullshit. THAT’S TOTAL BULLSHIT. FUCK Pakistan. Muzzy337 23 hours ago

@Muzzy337 Amen﻿ brother…Time for the US to stop helping all these bullshit countries and let them eat them self’s alive modellhasnosoul 12 hours ago

Pakistan is done. The USA should cut them off And put them﻿ on the “Terriorist” list.” for harboring Terrorists!! What more proof do you need people? SharkDude1 23 hours ago

@SharkDude1 hahaha Pakistan doesn’t need bribes. Pakistan and Afghanistan and Russia together are a rich aliance. America is the country that’s bankrupt and 14 trillion﻿ in debt.. Iraqgenocide2 22 hours ago

@modellhasnosoul and now nobody will ever help the﻿ US out if it gets in trouble. I know I wouldn’t that would be like handling a poisonous snake Iraqgenocide2 1 hour ago

pak will be next its all﻿ bullshit fu#k the nwo roccotaco10 23 hours ago

Mission accomplished! Time to get all the troops out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc. Bring everyone home and save a trillion dollars per﻿ yer! czubspenx 1 day ago

@czubspenx So libs are for﻿ CAPITAL PUNISHMENT NOW christmas254 1 day ago

@christmas254 The reason we went to Afghanistan 10 years ago was to get Obama. Okay, he’s gone. The spending spree must end because this country,﻿ the USA, is toally broke. Again, mission accomplished. Bring every troop home including those in Korea, Japan, Germany and Italy. czubspenx 1 day ago

@czubspenx We went to Afghanistan to﻿ get obama 10 yrs ago what for to bring him back to be Pres christmas254 23 hours ago

@czubspenx The US never cared about a muslim preacher who had nothing to do with 911 anyway, and Bush said so. Actually the reason the US went to Afghanistan was for Central Asian oil and they had no power in the region. And Afghanistan has a trillion dollars﻿ of mineral resources. Afghanistan’s opium crop is giving the US contractors a huge profit now and the US is trying to be the opium cartel for the world. PanzerBlitz43 23 hours ago

Fuck this racist Bitch﻿ ExChristian999 1 day ago

In among all the mistakes made by the Obama administration, which﻿ are to be expected with this bozo, one facet of this raid hasn’t been talked about much yet. The fact that we left a number of people, many children, there, unharmed. That should impress some that American soldiers don’t go around raping women and killing children indiscriminately like these insane Arabic murderers do.

WE WILL HAVE THE PICTURES RELEASED. They are property of the American people. Not Obama’s personal property. 1Makyo 1 day ago

If anyone needs to come clean, it’s the USA. Does anyone really believe anything anymore put out there﻿ by the government? czubspenx 1 day ago

here we﻿ go…again… Napalmbl00t 1 day ago

Wow who saw that one coming, a corrupt islamic﻿ shithole like pakistan harbering Osama. Brezable 1 day ago 2

••••• Wow, I can’t believe this. The Navy Seal who actually shot Osama Bin Laden has posted a video on Youtube giving details leading up to those last few seconds before he killed Osama. See it here first.﻿ Youtube Search: LEAKED: Navy Seal who shot Osama speaks out. bgarbacz 1 day ago

India is right next door – maybe they could﻿ have helped a little more – whatcha think? 357lenny 1 day ago

Those people were lying.They﻿ had to know there is no way

I believe those people,no way 58fenix 1 day ago

It’s easy﻿ to have “friends” when you are passing out money but real friends stand with you when times get tough. Have a look around America and see who your friends are.

You may be just a little too generous to the wrong bunch. deadfrd 1 day ago

Pakistan is worst country in the world.They should be isolate from whole world.﻿ 27kaden 1 day ago

That coward came into our country and attacked a bunch of innocent civilians. 3000 innocent men, women, and children died on 9/11. I’m pretty sure the only way Osama was coming out of that house was with a hole in his head… whether he was armed or not. Pakistan is acting like a husband who got caught cheating by his﻿ wife. They are mad because they got caught with their pants down and they are embarrassed. They are either cooperating with Al Queda or they have a piss-poor intelligence agency. PechHawk55 1 day ago

@PechHawk55 Totally agree with you dude.. Pakistn has been doing this for years..Milking USA for dollars and at same time sheltering osama..They wanted to have best of both the worlds..now USA must﻿ ensure that they take every penny back from these ppl with ‘intrest’. rattan412 1 day ago

@rattan412 they were underhanded US bribes to Pakistan so sorry, sucker, they don’t get paid back. America’s actually a terrorist state which creates terrorism for profit. It commited mass murder in Iraq which had nothing to do with 911..to steal Iraq’s oil. It tried to do the same with Libya. American government knows full well Bin Laden was no planner of 911, and it protects the saudis who planned it.﻿ What more evidence does anybody need that America’s the world’s biggest terrorist? PanzerBlitz43 1 day ago

@PanzerBlitz43 you seem misinformed. The US did not go against Lybia, it was a joint effort in concert with NATO. So apparently Europe is also a Terrorist state?﻿ Brandonduboff 1 day ago

@Brandonduboff Hillary and Obama were the instigators and the planners. It was the Bush﻿ Clones in Europe that went along with that terrorism, namely Sarkozy and Cameron. They were hoping to steal Libya’s oil but it backfired on them as usual. PanzerBlitz43 1 day ago

@PanzerBlitz43 BUUUUUUL SHIIIIT! Yeah that’s why gas is is $4.15﻿ a gallon!!!! Stupid! It’s time for the US to stop wiping the ass of all these terrorist countries in the Mid East. As for Iraq Saddam broke the ceasefire agreement from the first war and US called his bluff and he got toasted. You play with fire you get burned son. Stop blaming The good ol’ USA and blame the fools in these backward MID EAST countries who live and treat each other like animals. God Bless The USA!!!!! modellhasnosoul 12 hours ago

DUH! What you think Pakistan wanted to help the US? ﻿ Fucking retards. They wanted your free money. Anyway, Just leave the region already and have nothing to do with any of them. YellowYoshiEgg 1 day ago

LOL @ iraqgenocide. Please man if you cowards could take care of the terrorists yourselfs we wouldn’t be over there doing it for you. You’re too busy harboring them and we aren’t afraid to step on some toes in order to get the job done. I don’t care if the closest rifle was 5 miles away from Osama, he still deserved to get shot in the head. Read your post again. The only “fat whiner” here is you. Good luck kicking us out of anything.﻿ PechHawk55 1 day ago

@PechHawk55 I’m american, but I support an alliance of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Russia﻿ against America’s fag government. It’s easy Afghanistan and Pakistan boot out all amerians, stop accepting american bribes and form an economic alliance with Russia and China. America is like a stupid homeless person living in your house trying to rob you, bankrupt, and not to be trusted. PanzerBlitz43 1 day ago

No. Actually, the world is getting﻿ tired of you. Jazzycat47 1 day ago

Pakistan needs to copy China and India in﻿ developing its own economy so it doesn’t rely on handout from the U.S. lustcorp 1 day ago

Shut up American government you’re basically a bunch﻿ of disgusting cowards and terrorists yourselves who murder kids daily, retarded fat whiners. the world is getting tired of you. I support Pakistan kicking out all americans and getting Afghanistan to do the same. Both countries should ally themselves with Russia and tell the US to go piss off. Iraqgenocide2 1 day ago

@Iraqgenocide2 No﻿ doubt “pakistans complicity with al-cia-da, what a joke all this is dryflyguyok 1 day ago

Custody battle over Osama’s youngest wife Amai 2:09 Added: 1 day ago

From: newsxlive Views: 4,112

All Comments (17)

Just shoot the﻿ muslaki bitch!!!!! tod3k 13 minutes ago

Man.The US propaganda machine is a muthufucka.They can just say﻿ whatever the fuck they want to.They just show us a pic of somebody & feed us a story.Last week,the world knew nothing about her.If you’d researched OBL,her name would be nowhere to be found.Now,she’s Osama’s wife,witness to his death & proof that Pakistan betrayed the US.And all without ever opening her mouth.

what a dumb bitch i sure would NOT marry sombody who 1st of all thats a killer 2nd thats﻿ the most wanted man in America, and 3rd why the hell would she have kids with him, dosnt she know that she is putting her own children in risk, which she has already cuz two of her sons are dead, and who knows where her daughters are at now, who knows if she even cares! divascorpio1 11 hours ago

@divascorpio1, imagine that,﻿ she was not even a Blond… Phantasmos 2 hours ago

I wonder when the conspiracy trolls are going to﻿ start accusing this woman of being a c.i.a. agent impersonating osama’s wife? ArmenOfTheNorth 11 hours ago

@modellhasnosoul, she has as much info about Sama as the CIA…. Remember, Osama was made and bred by the﻿ CIA… They even know where his accounts are. Phantasmos 2 hours ago

i can see why﻿ pakistan refused to let the US speak to her, not after what happened to afia sadique. the poor girl, shes suffered so much by mitlitary and CIAs. FuckDaMedia 14 hours ago

The only reason we all know about the raid is because of OBL. A flick of the finger compared to what we don’t see them do EVERY single day. If you﻿ are going to be caught with your pants down, don’t beat yourself up too bad. Your pants were pulled down by the best.

Suck it up and play ball or have your pants pulled over your head next time. MuzicTrax 17 hours ago

Our Army backed by our nuclear capability is a gift of God. And we are confident about the surprise it can give to India or any invasion, any time. We have seen in﻿ past wars how Pakistan displayed world records of shooting down Indian planes in shortest time and even shot Israeli planes entering our land. Only difference we are much stronger and more willing to break the web of lies woven by US, Israel and India. ThePerfectLand 19 hours ago

@ThePerfectLand Well you certainly don’t even know you﻿ had a the world’s number one terrorist in your country and he was right under your army’s nose. There are no US lies going on ..just incompetence of your country. US had to do a job your country was incapable of doing yourself. Clean up your own back yard so the the US doesn’t have to sneak in your country again and do your job again. modellhasnosoul 12 hours ago

Having Alex Jones on as an authority on anything should send up red flags. He's a fucking idiot.﻿ UFCextra 5 hours ago

LOL

So now Alex jones is also a psychic

03:32

SOMETHING﻿ BIG IS GONNA HAPPEN TODAY

Alex what is in the future tell us izaccy 6 hours ago

Alex Jonas is also﻿ a hoax

his part of NWO izaccy 6 hours ago

I have a concern.. do you think that the Osama Hoax & the New Madrid drills are a cover up for what is about to﻿ hit America? More terrorist attacks on coastal US cities scheduled for May 16 to may 20? I say these dates b/c they are the dates for the New Madrid drills. All of our major resources are being employed out to the central midwest including most of our military forces & sepcial ops leaving the US volnerable to attacks. Can anyone ellaborate? RIVERAFILMS 6 hours ago

I finally figured out that I need to stop taking my thorazine to understand what this site﻿ is about……

lukebccb 8 hours ago

OMG i love stupid crazy people about conspiracy stuff, they really dont know when to stop. i﻿ like to see them make fools of themselves but over this matter i will just say FK U!!! tadrolton 9 hours ago

he's my thing. if osama has been dead, why dont al-qadea just say USA is lying and osama has been dead since 2001? let's say, "well, al-qadea wanted the world﻿ to think he was still alive." so, why not have fake bin laden vid that shows he still lives? since we all think osama has been dead, why is al-qadea going in lock step with what washington is saying? it would make more sense that al-qadea do a lil disinfo of their own. omarlives 9 hours ago

@omarlives because they dont even have proof he is alive, he is used in terrorist organziations because rebels are taught to believe they are fighting for allah, but any real muslim knows that islam means to submit like litterally to god. or they beleive that he is a cia agent made up to make islams look bad, trump seems to think this all as to﻿ do with his birth certificate to cover it up since osama a cat dieing 9 times. nobody even knows if he was alive becuase there is no eveidence of him rkarastamatis 8 hours ago

Alex is an idiot. WE KNOW THE PHOTO IS FAKE, THE REAL ONES WERE NOT EVEN RELEASED!!! YOU FAT﻿ SHIT!!! StormyWeather21 9 hours ago

I can't tell, is this guy insane, impersonating Charlie Sheen, or getting﻿ paid to be possibly the biggest troll in history? asteroidrules 10 hours ago

this man knows hes﻿ stuff alex jones is no joke ShanDaMan17 11 hours ago This has been flagged as spam show sixfouimpala 11 hours ago

How many times is this guy gonna say EVERYTHING is fake and staged His job is easy whatever happens.. It was an INSIDE job… How much cash are you making Jones? That is what your show is about…﻿ Do governments lie to the people? duhhhh no shit…They all do, we don`t need this huckster to tell us that.. davgabe 11 hours ago

i love people like this fucker who are half-intelligent. He is﻿ smart enough to question, but not smart enough to think on the matter. YOU DIEE!!!! what a bunch of smooth talking bullshit TTLYCLUTCH 13 hours ago

Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what﻿ I realize? [Takes a bite of steak] Ignorance is bliss. frankhnapier 13 hours ago

May Day﻿ is an ancient holy day for the Druids?

hmmmmmm SubliminalMinded2011 13 hours ago

not for nothing, but… why does Alex talk like he﻿ just smoked a thousand Newports?

his voice is raspy than a muhg. SubliminalMinded2011 13 hours ago

what about﻿ the ufo that is really demons 15heartz 13 hours ago

@Quinofking THAT'S MY﻿ POINT WE WILL NEVER GET ONE !!!!!…….HES BEEN DEAD FOR 10 YEARS !!! BallzYou 14 hours ago

I'm guessing the false flag attack will happen just﻿ when the bankers realize they have robbed us thoroughly and need to make an exit… that of course will be the point you know there is no hope of turning the US around financially so they need to collapse the entire system. Lovely isn't it. They make off with the booty, and everyone else is destroyed. You think the elites give a crap about you? MWdream 14 hours ago

If they had caught bin larden why did they not do what they did with saddam hussain and show him for the world to see,take him to America and put him on trial? Probably cause he was already dead years ago. Also if the story is true and they realy did kill bin larden on﻿ may 1st then us seals have gone into another country,exicuted someone who was unarmed. Dosn't that make them as bad as terrorists? Isn't it against the geniva convention? northerndownpoor 14 hours ago

in other words. alex jones has no proof or evidence that osama bin laden is not﻿ dead. instead he rants for 11 minutes about other conspiracy theories as if that prooves soething…. typical jones… quinofking 16 hours ago

the﻿ mouthpiece of iblis undercover alfurqanmedia 16 hours ago

dont call his death an﻿ assassination because he wasnt a great person rip uncle chris you fucking bastard burn in hell fuck you osama ballinbmac01 18 hours ago

@ballinbmac01 osama was assassinated… it doesnt matter if he was good or bad, an assassination is an﻿ assassination. im happy as hell that he was killed but the truth is when someone hires people for the sole purpose of killing 1 person, it is an assassination. holyslayer95 17 hours ago

@ballinbmac01 How do you know he isn't alive and well? i dont know who to believe but i am sick of people being controlled by﻿ our government, America is a free country!!!!! w35t51d369 15 hours ago

@w35t51d369﻿ well apparently not anymore mower1776 15 hours ago

A year before the elections Obama strikes at the heart of terror. Making him the most popular president in the world since JFK, but he's no JFK. The reason why is he needs your vote. I wonder how many people are going to flock to the voting polls this time? People must really be fooled to think that a year before the elections Osama was found, shot and﻿ killed. The one responsible for his death none other then Obama. This all seems very strange to me…and it should to the rest of the world soulsurcher 18 hours ago

Interesting such power hungry people dump the body at sea, the place they have no control over, with such value on Bin Laden's head they shove it where any old sod with a boat can find it. I honestly don't believe﻿ they could be that stupid. A pathetic story to crown Obama as your God. happydaiz82 18 hours ago

I LOVE ALEX JONES !!!

FINALLY SOMEBODY IS SPEAKING UP!! we deserve to see an actual photo of the deceased as far﻿ too much of our hard earned resources went into finding the character. Not only that but we come to find out that he was living in the middle of Pakistan for what , ten years and no one knew it? BallzYou 18 hours ago

@BallzYou

why? so u can claim its photoshoped? so u can claim its not him? like youve done in the past?﻿ if we ever get one, u fuckers better shut up… quinofking 16 hours ago

why did they release the photos of the other 3 men Dead but not binladen …. untill i see the﻿ One of bin laden i will not belive he is dead. JasperHQ 19 hours ago

@JasperHQ﻿ same. w35t51d369 15 hours ago

alex﻿ jones is nthe real fuckin deal. he is a voice any american needs TheMegaghost85 19 hours ago This has been flagged as spam show hamjee01 20 hours ago

Come on folks go to the streets and protest.Enough with this lies,lies after lies.The struggle for power and money is ridiculous.Collect wealth,money but﻿ not take anything with you when you die and everything﻿ you left behind,was MURDER and WAR.I do not care if you're a Christian,Muslim,Mason,illumin­­ati…you need to see what I see."I have 10 house,5 cars hundreds of billions of dollars"now this is incomprehensible when millions of people have a bad life dinsubpamant 20 hours ago

OBL's body was probly mutilated by automatic weapons fire and / or explosives. the story about it being buried at sea, "within hours" (!), from norther Pakistan is rubbish. the US almost had a disaster with Helo 1 cavitating while lowering SEALS and﻿ floundered into the courtyard where Helo 2 was dispatching troops. could have been another Desert One easily. no wonder the White House just wants to move on without answering any questions.

stybarrow 21 hours ago

who is running our country? why can they blow up the wtc? it wasnt the arabs. the plane that hit the second tower had no windows and a weapon﻿ pod below look closer at the video hvypetals 21 hours ago

Alex, do u know which program (shake,﻿ after effects, adobe premeire, or final cut) they used to create the animated version on CNN and other networks? riccoutube2 21 hours ago

@MrSandmanTv Yes I do watch allot of news and research. But I've been listening and was a fan of this guy for years. I just think it's weird that for years he manages to come up with a different conspiracy every week. I guess he won't stop until they money is dry. You will see 10 yrs from now he'll still be making up a different conspiracy every week along as ppl are buying his books and giving him ratings or maybe he's just schizophrenic or to paranoid.﻿ simonee1000 22 hours ago

@simonee1000 ..r u saying that osama bin laden so called death on 1st may 2011 is not a hoax ? ..I think it's you whose schizophrenic and NOT Alex Jones cause that man tells the﻿ truth. Bilsher007 20 hours ago

People always say your a conspiracy theorist if you disagree﻿ with what is on the media MrSandmanTv 22 hours ago

What a liar and a cash cow. No conspiracies for this﻿ guy= no book sells, no ratings and no money. simonee1000 23 hours ago

@simonee1000 Yea but you can''t﻿ assume its a conspiracy before you do your research. I'm not into all that stuff but u gotta research b4 u say that MrSandmanTv 22 hours ago

and what happened to the idea of doing a march on wall street ? i remember you saying something about this before. getting the loose change people to﻿ help. napalmvoododaddy 23 hours ago

alex, can you make it to ground zero ? i mean barry is going to lay flowers near a tree there. and the news, when they do the "man on the street" interview, they pick people who toe the 9/11 commission report line ! i think if you﻿ went there, along with others in the 9/11 truther movement, it would make a difference ! napalmvoododaddy 23 hours ago This has been flagged as spam show RealNarod28 23 hours ago

This whole story sounds fishy to﻿ me. If anything i smell a deal between Pak-US for end game in AF-PAK. This way US can declare victory and get out. LikableDesi 1 day ago 2

OPERATION GERONIMO? A Letter EXPOSED GEORGE BUSH's GRANDFATHER PRESCOTT BUSH for Digging up GERONIMO's BONES and stealing Skull for the sick SKULL and BONES Secret club. So I Guess IF Saddam was dead from raid, The Body is Stuffed and in a CRAWFORD BASEMENT, next to a stuffed Saddam, a RainBow Trout and a few Deer Heads. We All Know the mailed Anthrax after 911 came from army lab and NOT Al Qaeda, The Terrorists Spraying Crops were really the DEA in columbia, So TRUST the FEDS! Or illuminati﻿ 911sheeple 1 day ago

whats more funny every news place you watch they all show the same place were he got shot what i dont understand is why in the hell would a guy wanted by all hides in the open. all bad boys run and hide from the cops no?? hell even i know that when the coips run﻿ after me i dont just site on my ass in the open like this and what no one with ak 47 protecting laden??? dont get but all i get is f.c.c b.s with the same pics and same video even here in canada we are all seeing the same b.s

6social6misfit6 1 day ago

@6social6misfit6 Damn right, whats more ironic that everthing is set on fire that B L touched before he went﻿ to the sea, Helicopter, dirty villa. The VS knew from pakistani internel affairs(but now other grps in the pakistani goverment deniel it) that he was in that house for about 8 months…, if i am a top criminal i would not stay longer then 1 week at same place… Venomonia 1 day ago

@Venomonia brilliant comment…i also would not have any information with me from old﻿ plans….. Redlocokixx 1 day ago

I have the upmost regard for Alex. However, I find it difficult ot understand how he can doubt the Osama death (I agree with him), yet believe in the resurrection of Jesus – an event for﻿ which the evidence is extremely thin and contradictory in all four books of the gospel. SavageMichael 1 day ago

@SavageMichael Surely Bin Laden didn't Die 6 years ago and the asshole presidents Lied to continue cashing in on the War on Terror. Then the CIA's STUXNET Virus got out of Iran Nuke plants and Melted down JAPANS NUKES and the word got out thanks to some SHEEPLE, and the CIA was in Desperate Need to get some Big Public Support and FAST so a Fake﻿ Capturing Story was Fabricated and it took place on may 1st when illuminati formed in 1776. So there you have it , WHY the FABRICATED STORY! 911sheeple 1 day ago

im from canada. the u.k got hit usa. got hit like we all know whos next here at home 1more move for the n.w.o.﻿ watch and learn we will get hit but when we dont know 6social6misfit6 1 day ago

This guy is making living, the further out there his stuff is the more ppl gobble﻿ it up.. They love a good ghost story other wise their lives are too boring .. Is there lies in government and leaders? DUHHH yes in every place on earth.. This guy knows no more then the guy in the barber shop, he just spouts it into a mic every day davgabe 1 day ago

@davgabe

Troll harder, bro . . . what about Jones' reports/intel are reminiscent of a ghost story? Even if you were right, you used a logical fallacy in assuming that people﻿ watching him to get spooked would have excessively boring lives otherwise. Finally, what "guy in the barber shop" is guaranteed to know as much as, and no less, than Jones about geopolitics, hmmmm?!?!? KoldShadow 19 hours ago

Interesting….Osama dead on﻿ the eve of the Canadian election. Wikileaks bashing Canada with terrorism propaganda. American Gov't: Gosh, we might lose Harper and lose our hold on the NAU plans. Let's see if we can set up a terrorist attack, blame the Canadian border and then we'll have them eating our of our hands. Assange works for the US Gov't.

sumweiroytthair 1 day ago

hell one more j.f.k who done it how and pics funny how the past repeats itself and also funny if there are pics of bin laden there taken a hell of along time mmmmm may be﻿ there maken up fake 1s the the news lets all watch it will come out may be not now but it will like evrything from the goverment take a hell of along time why is that thinkn up shit to say. hitler never shot himself like ppl think. dna said the skull with the hole was a girls not his look it up youtube called hitler's escape 6social6misfit6 1 day ago

Baaaaaahhhhhhh.

﻿ sumweiroytthair 1 day ago This has been flagged as spam show 6social6misfit6 1 day ago

FOR GET O﻿ BUM A ALSO SAID HE WILL STOP PPL, LIKE ALEX JONES AND JESSE V. ALL PPL, WHO ARE INTO conspiracy theoryS like wheres jesse now since he showed the lies hes not to be fpound alex what happen do you still have info or did the c.i.a. say for you 2 guys stop talkn with each other cayk order may be mmmmm look it up all info i just said is out on the internet ppl, 6social6misfit6 1 day ago Comment removed 6social6misfit6 1 day ago

Haha, I think it's a miracle that you're still﻿ alive Alex! Be carefull out there lad :P Tryggis666 1 day ago

How can you put 32 Seals and 2 Leaches﻿ in this tiny Stealth Helicopter ? lies4us 1 day ago

Alex Jones is an﻿ idiot. Why would the people that were there lie? His wives and children say that they watched Osama being shot. No that's ok. Don't answer that because you'll just create a bigger conspiracy. You know better than the people that were there. That's what lunatics do. sweetbrownskin 1 day ago

@sweetbrownskin If you shot someone in the street for their wallet, and then later got caught for it, would you think you would lie to get away with it, because your going to hang for it. Well murderers lie﻿ and fabricate or stage events in order to get away with it…If police can be corrupt and sell out to mafia, they all can, its human nature, and its human nature to trust others if the story they tell sounds good enough, more so if they control the fkn media. SASNIGHTCRAWLER 1 day ago

@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Here you almost make sense except I said wives and children. These people were in fact innocent of any wrongdoing other than living with Osama. And if I accept your﻿ argument then why did they correct the American government who said it was a shoot out. Wives and children state that osama was unarmed. Or don't you read. what you are saying makes no logical sense. There is no convincing you or Alex you are going to believe what you want. Tell me where's Tupac sweetbrownskin 21 hours ago

@sweetbrownskin A monopoly is illegal because it restricts competition and gives one person or company power in more ways than one…now if you do the same thing in politics its ok? now lets say, Democrats were Wallmart and republicans were Texaco oil…and both companies were controlled by McDonalds….and the﻿ republicans win…who really wins? i will tell you, a creepy Clown who hangs about with loads of fat people and kids…you vote in the Evil Clown every time you vote. SASNIGHTCRAWLER 1 day ago

@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Careful your lunacy is showing. Please read this statement. You jump from subject to subject. You having what is called a﻿ flight of ideas. Diagnosis: Paranoia sweetbrownskin 21 hours ago

@sweetbrownskin Na, its called being sick of being fucked up the ass by a wanking rapist murderer with a flag, who tells me i didn't see or hear what i did, because they say so, and if﻿ i continue to tell people what i know or was ordered to do, i will end up in jail or laying dead next to my family. Great paranoia. Wait until you leave the job your in spook guy, will you be a good little bitch, or will you say, fuck you? you sound like a yes man to me, or is it traitor? hmmm lol ;) SASNIGHTCRAWLER 20 hours ago

@SASNIGHTCRAWLER now﻿ the ignorance and racism shows its head. Here we go for the world to see. You can't stand it that president obama actually got him. That African American that you call a spook. So you deny it. OK so You and Alex Jones are just racist. Whatever say it outright then don't hide. I guess that's just like your ancestors hiding behind sheets. But might I suggest that you learn how to express yourself appropriately because the vulgarity makes you look ignorant. sweetbrownskin 16 hours ago

@sweetbrownskin Racism? are you a fucking retard? Oh right, sweetbrown skin, i get it…with a name like that,your more racist that the KKK..why advertise your colour? who is talking about colour appart from you dick head? if i was racist i would of called myself white hero and called you a N***r. What childish views you have, im jelous Obama(a black man) caught Bin Laden? Im as Racist as Buddha you fucking Bell-End!

I suppose Monkey﻿ is now a racist word? what next, Retart is racist? Piss Off SASNIGHTCRAWLER 8 hours ago

@sweetbrownskin BTW….A spook is word for government agent …you are showing that your an expert at twisting a story around when you clearly know what im talking about. Either that, or you walk about thinking every person with skin colour diferent to yours is a fucking Racist, meaning, your paranoid. What is it, cant cope with people talking to you, i bet your an employers fucking nightmare, taking everyone to court, saying that you﻿ were offended by the racism of the black board or some shit. SASNIGHTCRAWLER 8 hours ago

@sweetbrownskin Come to the UK with that attitude, and our Black police officers would arrest you for inciting racism and say, we have no UZI's here lad, you cant blame white man for you being born black here You see,﻿ the British people don't think Films on TV are real. Thing is, we don't give a fuck, Muslim, Indian, Black Africans, Chinese, we have better things to do, than run about in gangs, fighting others different to the skin we wear, its called being Grown up, and not a fucking Idiot. SASNIGHTCRAWLER 8 hours ago

@sweetbrownskin I dont know how much racism you suffer where you live, if you suffer any at all, but maintaining and keeping yourself in some catagory by using the colour of your skin, like its some sort of black pride crap, maintains imature thinking. The moment you﻿ look for words that you think are racist towards you, is the moment you seperate yourself from humanity as a whole and put yourself in some group of abused none whites. Obamas USA, provide weapons to Africans, who kill Africans. SASNIGHTCRAWLER 8 hours ago

@sweetbrownskin And to promote the colour of your skin in your own country, creates division when others didnt even notice it like myself,i didnt or wouldnt﻿ of even known you were black, brown or whatever until you pointed it out today.But even if i would of seen your face,which ive not, colour wouldnt of even entered my mind,only a persons face would of been seen in my eyes. Why make a point rubbing your colour in my face?i have no interest nor does it mean anything to me, and why should it do? SASNIGHTCRAWLER 7 hours ago

@SASNIGHTCRAWLER "Wait until you leave the job your in spook guy, will you be a good little bitch, or﻿ will you say, fuck you?"

Now it would seem to me that you are calling the president a spook. It shows your and Alex Jones true intentions by that statement. There are thousands of Pakistani people protesting against the U.S. for what? A hoax. And yet you brought this discussion to hurling racist insults. Why? because that is your and Alex Jones' true intentions.

@sweetbrownskin Have they got a name at NASA for the planet you live on, because please oh please give me the coordinates to it, so i can tell them to avoid it for future expeditions, i should tell them, we have crazy racist aliens living on some rock, who use paranoid racism chips on their shoulders, in an attempt to make you think you are racist, and thus leave them alone. When﻿ there are no white guy aliens to be racist towards…how do you attack your own kind, age, gender, IQ,or cock size? SASNIGHTCRAWLER 1 hour ago

@sweetbrownskin the thing is, by saying one word that defends corruption, shows your either retarded, but i cant see that, or something else. I see something else. And the thing is,﻿ king monkey said, get out of the tree, your all paranoid, so they leave the tree and are then eaten by the lions, and the king monkey blames the lion, but the lion doesn't eat King monkey, because king monkey trades his kind in exchange for his life or job.. And i don't take drugs monkey… Kind Regards…Mr Lion. SASNIGHTCRAWLER 20 hours ago

@sweetbrownskin Then the moment anyone from any side try to expose the corrupt bullshit the evil clown is behind, you get both parties attacking them, and covering up everything and justifying why they were assassinated, they have no one to use political power to back them up and help them, and if they did help﻿ them, the money they took and the backhanders they took, would be exposed to all and they would be jailed. They could fabricate anything, tax evasion, anything they like, your a slave. SASNIGHTCRAWLER 1 day ago

@sweetbrownskin Most people there in that Town say its Bullshit and don't believe the US propaganda, and his wives and children have not come out﻿ and said that, moron! tfrenn 21 hours ago

coomon dumb﻿ american alex is not dumb ur dumd just eating what ur govt put in front of u wake kuttasachin 1 day ago

That's what it is, they are insulting peoples intelligence, it proves that whatever they are doing, is reducing intelligence in the average person, because if people cant see this is all bullshit, the human race is﻿ finished and has no hope in hell. SASNIGHTCRAWLER 1 day ago This has been flagged as spam show SASNIGHTCRAWLER 1 day ago

We can send thousands or millions of people to Horrors like Nam or Iraq, or watch Saddam hung, legal snuff films….and they wont give out the picture of Osama? we see dead people all over the streets on TV every day. They kill a guy, who has a $25 million bounty on his head, living in a place where they live on a dollar per day, and say no one knew? bullshit. they kill him and throw him in the sea, its insane to﻿ even try and argue with such an insult to intelligence. SASNIGHTCRAWLER 1 day ago This has been flagged as spam show TeslaTechnologyRocks 1 day ago

Didnt you hear? Hitler didnt die! Obama faked Hitler's death because there﻿ are so many good candidates on the right! mrekbass 1 day ago

you know what else was funny? Hitler died on May 1st, and so was the Illuminati Foundation, although﻿ I believe Osama didn't die on that day KromeMedia 1 day ago

I heard that CAKE is also a conspiracy to make us fat, and useless so the Cops can kick our ass. ALEX JONES MY MAN﻿ WHERE YOU GONNA TALK ABOUT DIS?!!~!~!~!!!!!1111111 VisionimagifyTV 1 day ago

AMERICANS is the MOST EASY people to FOOL ,, hahahaha ,﻿ G W BUSH said that BinLaden lived in a cave ,, <>>I HATE JESSIE﻿ VENTURA – THEY’RE ALL LIARS !!! UFCextra 2 days ago

@UFCextra ur lame﻿ dude

hahaha XXX805XXXThuglife 2 days ago

@UFCextra So then it is safe to say you hate truth!!! The names you spelled off are informing the people of what are so called government﻿ is keeping from us. That makes you one of THEM…the DECEIVERS. Either wake up (I believe it is too late for you) or go find another channel to inflict your BS on!! CosmicSchemeofThings 2 days ago

@112bhoy

I﻿ stand corrected.

Thanks for bring it to my attention. maurieer 2 days ago

I’m like a bull, when you threaten me I tend to run﻿ AT you!! let’s get em richardfireone 2 days ago

I hate ALEX JONES for lying﻿ to me…and i hate gerald celente and Jessie Ventura…hate all of them Liars UFCextra 2 days ago

@UFCextra alex jones and jesse ventura gerald celente are telling﻿ the truth WAKE UP AMERICA OBAMA IS FOOLING YOU ALL >USA STATE DEPARTMENT IS PUPET OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER>OBAMA WANTS TO GET RE ELECTED JUST TO BRAIN WASH THE STUPID SHEEP>PLEASE DONT BELIVE THE NEW LIES USA STATE DEPARTMENT IS CAME UP WITH>WAKE UP AMERICA OBAMA IS A LIAR ABOUT OSAMA BIN LADEN IS JUST NOW GOT KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN HAS BEEN DEAD FOR LONG LONG TIME AGO>WAKE UP AMERICA lied2bygov 2 days ago

Randi Rhodes often nails geo-political matters w/ incisive commentary; and, w/ particular charm. WHEN is she going to get around to faithfully servicing TRUTH regarding the foundational BOGUS CLAIMS, based upon BOGUS DOCS—A ‘Bomination! Why would one expect as much from RANDI(?); because, she has ardently corrected glaring information gaps; she embraces﻿ the CONSTITUTION: Randi, kindly PREVAIL: we TRUST you 4thESTATE! pajamasmedia site; SEE: Obama Citizenship: I Invented LogicCheck 2 days ago

Is it possible﻿ to do the same to Justin Bieber’s face??? Vamendozalc 2 days ago

Too bad it isn’t﻿ oBama who is declared dead… virgy45 2 days ago

they are now using OSAMA BIN LADEN AGAIN, TO RE ELECT OBAMA american people you are being lied again . this is an exit strategy get out of the AFGHANISTAN THEY HAVE TO LIE.INDIA AND PAKISTAN AFGHANISTAN AND REST OF THE ASIA WANTS AMERICA OUT AND THE STOP﻿ ALL OF THEIR LIES ALSO.AMERICA HAS AN EVIL AGENDA FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD NOW EVERYBODY KNOWS.AMERICAN CORPORATIONS ARE ALSO EVIL THEY ARE SPREADING MONSANTO SEEDS WORLD KNOWS AMERICA IS RUN BY CORPORATIONS STATE DEPARTMENT IS LIERS INC. lied2bygov 2 days ago

youtube.com/watch?v=2oeYbtc2Cb­Y

Watch﻿ if you believe Bin Ladens death is a hoax

Bin Laden song “Sandals in the bin”

nickadamsm4 2 days ago

ALEX THIS IS VERY ENCOURAGING ,AS SOON AS THEY﻿ ANNOUNCED THIS HOAX I USED MY FACEBOOK AS AMMO AGAINST THESE LIARS. KEEP IT UP! AEXIOB1776 2 days ago

@AEXIOB1776 HELL YEH GET﻿ EM!

TokenPictures111 2 days ago This has been flagged as spam show CaptainAAllen 2 days ago

@TheeUnidentified, ye know, i have been ostracized due to my opinions about reality, and basically i say to others that they are free, and all they respond with is a comment about earlier or their fear of later, the people are abusing themselves in such a way, it is as though the species is splitting into those that want to live, and those that﻿ don’t, oy may all find peace in peace:) salo73 2 days ago

please﻿ watch if you think Bin Laden death is all a hoax

watch?v=2oeYbtc2CbY nickadamsm4 2 days ago

please watch if﻿ you think this is all a hoax

watch?v=2oeYbtc2CbY nickadamsm4 2 days ago

bottom line folks, most of us people are good and honest, and we’ve been giving all of our goodness to the elite instead of each other, so so FUCK﻿ EM, salo73 2 days ago

Keep it﻿ up alex!! danielle1ashley 2 days ago

i like listening to aj, just to see how much shit he comes up with. Hes mostly﻿ right but is funny when its complete crap. keep it up! DeFy18 2 days ago

AJ is just another inside job.

AJ is one of the major stop gaps to give a voice to those that don’t fall for the BS the media spills. Once one feels AJ speaks for them, they have faith that AJ will spread the truth to all…and thus,﻿ they don’t have to do anything else.

Preventing action is their goal. Specifically, their goal is to prevent action just long enough for campaigns to be run (such as the 9/11 false flag operation). TheGoalSetter 2 days ago

@TheGoalSetter I hear﻿ you. I’ve had my doubts on AJ as far as his claims of being a patriot and all his other heroic titles. However the only problem you run into with your theory is that his actions are the same of someone who may very well be a true patriot. Its a similar concept to a situation where someone says they didnt steal somethin and you dont know if to believe because a liar and someone telling the truth would give the same response. You never know AJ could be tellin the truth. kornegay99 2 days ago

PEOPLE SHARE THIS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW AND﻿ DON’T KNOW!! SPREAD IT LIKE BUTTER IN A BAGEL! TokenPictures111 2 days ago 5

this guy is amazing he really has these political gangster by the balls. and obama he’s just the goverments puppet that﻿ is still ran by bush. this is all part of the 9/11 thing which was rigged how is it that a building of that size fall straight down floor by floor when hit on the 90th floor it was all an exuse to start a war in iraq for their oil. which is why they put this shit out. the war in iraq died out so they put this to make terrorist rebel for the exuse that we have to stay in the war Chargerfreak101 2 days ago

The Bin Ladens are part of the global oligarchy. When the entire airline industry was shut down on 9/12/2001, Bush made sure several Bin Laden family members were flown out of the US.

OBL was merely an agent of an elaborate false flag operation. His role was to be the face of the so-called enemy. The intention of the 9/11 false flag was really to﻿ justify the domestication of Islam. So after millions of innocent Muslims have been murdered, they end this grand charade.

I say, well done NWO. TheGoalSetter 2 days ago

Oh major mistake!!!!

Conan music is sacred!!!

It should not be used for anything…especially talk show buffer﻿ music. TheGoalSetter 2 days ago

What the fuck are these people talking about. So what, you killed a member of the terror force, it’s more like killing a maid. He was 57 years old, a broken down man. The US kills their scape goat, what’s next. Gasoline is up again, we better come up with a much stronger terrorist, or people might ask questions. 9/11 and osama bin laden, how do you make that connection, probably the same way Bush did it, mass destruction missiles, I knows hi has them,﻿ trust me, I know what I’m doing. Ryuuken24 3 days ago

Osama is dead!!!! All our problems are solved, I am so glad that all our jobs came back from﻿ overseas and our economy is now the best its been in years……Oh hold on…. none of that happened…..my mistake. thewineisfine 3 days ago 38

@thewineisfine No there not idiot, 1 day there going to attack the white house,﻿ and kill Obama and I GUARENTEE it Anthman46 2 days ago

@Anthman46 just an fyi, you loose all credibility with your guaranteeing claims when you﻿ cannot differentiate between “their” and “there” ivory4646 2 days ago

@thewineisfine man hes working on it give the dude a break when gas is 5.00 a gallon china and us will have an equal currency and you will see people doing shit here real quick ,when you can buy a ton of marbles from china for 100 less than it takes﻿ marble king to produce the same amount ,after they ship half way round the world,real fair trade huh.

realstreetind 2 days ago

@thewineisfine Stop associating Osama being dead with our economy recovering, you’re getting confused. No one is saying the economy is the best its been in years…﻿ but Osama bin Laden being dead is a FACT. Get over yourself and be a free-thinking person – you’re too easily persuaded. TheSWTORMMO 2 days ago

@TheSWTORMMO﻿ your too easily confused “free thinker”. All I said was that in reality Osama being dead fixes nothing.. but thanks for the constructive criticism take care man. thewineisfine 2 days ago

@thewineisfine No, you said﻿ “none of that happened,” referring to Osama being dead. So you’re saying he didn’t die. Of course Osama bin Laden being dead doesn’t “fix” anything, but it certainly brings justice to the 3000+ people he killed on 911. TheSWTORMMO 2 days ago

@TheSWTORMMO No Osama being dead was the completion of one thought and the economic troubles being felt by most citizens in the U.S. was the start of another. I didn’t think I had to﻿ start a new paragraph for you to understand a simple message like that. Sorry I wasn’t clear enough for you I will take the time to be more precise with my youtube musings . By the way Osama didn’t kill those people on 911 our one world government did, so unfortunately there is no justice for them at this time. thewineisfine 1 day ago

@thewineisfine “Our one world government did.” Do you know stupid that sounds? You’re repeating what Alex Jones says, and it’s really﻿ funny to see how easily you’re persuaded. TheSWTORMMO 1 day ago

@TheSWTORMMO The funny thing is that you think people cant find information for themselves. I have been researching the new world order long before I had even﻿ heard of Alex Jones. Your comments just reiterate how narrow your band of thinking is on this subject. Good Luck out there “free thinker” maybe you could try doing just that, it might improve your station in life. Take care thewineisfine 1 day ago

@thewineisfine Good﻿ luck with that. TheSWTORMMO 1 day ago

@thewineisfine love﻿ it

Redlocokixx 2 days ago

I shall exsect and incise and chop and ax and deflower, defile, rape, ravage, pillage, bother, molest and celebrate CHECKPOINT FREEDOM and﻿ CHECKPOINT BONDAGE and CHECKPOINT LIBERTY and CHECKPOINT SANCTITY and CHECKPOINT DOUBLE SCREW…Oooo yeah!!! Abortion is personal, between a mother and her abortionist. FinallyTheNight 2 days ago

@thewineisfine Guess what Osama is a live. Proof is coming soon.﻿ salbal777 2 days ago

Hey Alex I think your a freaking a hole. All you do is make shit up and take things out of context. There’s no way they could keep﻿ things like Usama being dead or frozen for the past several years. Wikileaks is a perfect example how people can’t keep their mouths shut. I think you actually believe your own B.S. cathrasher1974 3 days ago

2:40 Alex refers to the dual stories, as Khalezov also alludes to in his video in﻿ 26 parts (911-truth net, a MUST SEE) … one truth for the patricians, another truth for the Plebeians …

memorizable2020 3 days ago

I think the killing of a poor Osama-duplicate in Pakistan was just connected to the hoax of the Hawaiian “final real birth certificate” for Obama, which many people think to be a fraud. Another smoke screen for the Sheeple in the USA.

Obama traveled a lot as a child. How could he do it without his birth certificate? Mine is now more than 70 years old, almost falling﻿ apart, but real!

Chemtrailsexist 3 days ago

@MsBonSaint I found the video of Bhutto talking about it….I dunno if you’ve seen that but its a video that came out in 2008. She then conveinently died soon after being recorded saying OBL had been killed.﻿ They are bringing it up now because the gov has a 9% approval rating. They need something to boost morale, so that the dummies can have faith in the gov once again face2facechick 3 days ago

How is it I knew Jones would say this stupid shit a day before he said﻿ it!? mrekbass 3 days ago

Lmao this Guy is﻿ a fag Pupps61nine 3 days ago This has been flagged as spam show matttafakt 3 days ago

Obama’s death is meaningless considering how widespread his network is.﻿ If anything, his marterdom will just make things far worse. Typhoonbladefist 3 days ago

I can’t﻿ find the referenced video on youtube… zurnaik 3 days ago

Okay, I know it’s a bit off topic, but Charlie Wilson’s war﻿ does have a scene near the start where Hanks says “whats the budget for black ops in Afghanistan” So they did say they were funding them before that. Just not as much. trollfinger 3 days ago

As soon as the story broke I didn’t jump into the air and say excellent. Where is the actual proof, Autopsy, Photographs, Fingerprints, Dental Records or Pathology Reports and Numerous Blood Tests? ANSWER NO-WHERE ITS TOTALLY FAKE STORY. Kind of funny HOW HIS BODY DUMPED AT SEA BEFORE ANY PROOF COULD﻿ BE VERIFIED.

Just a publicity stunt for Obama to get credibility for his next Presidential Campaign. FAKE VIDEOS, AUDIO TAPES OF OSAMA NOW WE’VE GOT PHOTO’s. BUT PEOPLE CELEBRATE WIDLY ON A LIE Zuel7272 3 days ago

GOT DISTRACTED AGAIN !!!!!!!!!﻿ WHO THE FUCK IS BARRY SOETORO ? matttafakt 3 days ago

@matttafakt obamas real name﻿ broadband01 3 days ago

@broadband01﻿ I KNOW.. ;)

matttafakt 3 days ago This has been flagged as spam show rollsthepaul 3 days ago

That photo has been around for years, and dubbed﻿ a fake. trollfinger 3 days ago

I heard when Alex Jones was born his momma wanted a girl and his daddy wanted a boy and they both got their wish.﻿ thesageofohio 3 days ago

@thesageofohio

LOL﻿ PUASummit 3 days ago

@thesageofohio aww you﻿ couldnt think of anything meaningful to say… i am guessing your parents had the same wish and it also happened pkmuffun 3 days ago

Wait, does Alex Jones really believe Hitler killed himself? I just assumed that was a conspiracy too,﻿ along with… everything else, ever. augustuslxiii 3 days ago

LOL im from cananda and bin ladens death has BULLSHIT writen all over it. i hardly believe that bin laden is even the real “mastermind” behind 911 (this is irrefutable)

but to come out﻿ and say that Bin Laden was killed buried at see for respect for the muslims… muslims do not “bury” dead bodies in the ocean thats the work of the mafia LOL. 20775046 3 days ago 4

@20775046 I know just exactly how stupid is my country? I mean really? Buried at﻿ Sea? And we have America just eating it up. Eat it up fatties. NumeralScientist 3 days ago

The American Government never released the picture! the Whitehouse have advised they have not released any pictures so obviously﻿ its a fake! THIS GUY IS A MORON celticstu 3 days ago This has been flagged as spam show NWO20122012 3 days ago

Alex Jones is the stupidity of intelligence of American people﻿ salama3383 3 days ago 3

Alex jones rants like a loony man so he can discredit the movement. Trust me this man sold out some tme ago. You telling me the government can’t kill this man if they wanted to? Remember the illumanati give every nation and people﻿ their ‘heros’ and use them to indoctrinate the sheep. ps in the second part of this video towards the end mr alex jones throws up the baphomet just like ron paul, they are all in the same basket. red44ever 3 days ago

I’m sick of﻿ this shit I wish I could have a ten minutes slot on tv every week just to show the nieve morons of the western world the truth skyfrog696969 3 days ago

Where is the Lionel Chetwynd video? looking for it﻿ and cannot find it DaGoalieSniper 3 days ago

—->>> first dictator. Obama: Sounds just right to me, but don’t you think the militia patriots will rise up against us? Jew master: I don’t think they will﻿ do that because they are to busy watching the daily show, and american idol sipping on their beer, worshipping black atheletes. Obama: I sure hope so, but I am still worried they might, but what the hell, I am game if yoy guys are. Jew master: Don’t worry we have been planning this new World Order for a long long time, I believe we can win. NWO20122012 3 days ago

I dont ride on every one of Alex Jones crazy coattails but I’m pretty sure he has this one﻿ down pat. I smelled junk as soon as this news aired. DELPHIIII 3 days ago 2

Whoa bro.

Mind﻿ = Blown. CheeryChan1243 3 days ago

Here is Obama and﻿ his jew handlers conversation: Obama: Masters I do not think they bought this fake operation. Jew Master: Well their were alot of gulible that seem to believe it. Obama: But master that is what you said about the birth certificate also. Jew Master: Well to hell with what these dumb goyim think, we will just go to plan three. Obama: You mean carry out the false flag operation and mass murder a few million? Jew master: Right, and then declare martial law, and be america’s —>>> NWO20122012 3 days ago

Well Alex at least you﻿ aint wearing that Joker Make-up today. Anyways, is it true that you love yelling about gold all the time to make a profit from your handlers? TheUSAStates 3 days ago

If Obama releases the video and﻿ the pictures to back his claims of all that occured then we can believe that Osama was actually killed. prajna8 3 days ago

@YosupMofo another brainwashed. You go on ranting that the other religion is evil and go rejoicing around﻿ about it. And you ask if people are sane? Truly blind. josefpanes 3 days ago

I wonder what kind of stats infowars use. He says millions visited the site the last 2 hours. With google analytics (which inforwars use) the stats don’t get updated every hour. So is he lying / bragging about the stats, or﻿ do they monitor it every hour? which would slow their servers down and is unlikely I think. kaasvaag 3 days ago

I keep remembering the 5 megaton warheads that the Air Force found﻿ in a decommissioned cruise missiles and worry that the next false flag attack will be a nuclear strike against the USA by US forces using US nukes and blame Al Queda. They may go after Austin since you’re there. harrymook 3 days ago

@ProfessorTiNfOiL no they can’t…﻿ and it’s so fucken obvious cicatrixta 3 days ago

a rich﻿ man dies from kidney disease? Pffft As if! sprayprayanddie 3 days ago This has been flagged as spam show ireland2day 3 days ago

what happens if these disgusting Obama rats decide to invade , germany? russia? china? Australia? think it wont happen? explain why? where will these globalist parasites with their black boy puppet Obama Stop? they Say terrorist and invade, they dont need a reason to invade and destroy, they do it and murder﻿ 4 oil, so whens it going to stop? When the people say enough and rise up, these parasites will pay for their sins, humanity will never forget their names and what they represent. Evil… skitchem 3 days ago

Im not being conned by parasites and evil scum. and the rest of you shouldnt be conned by these parasites either, Out side America your government are regarded as a bunch of parasites and scum, its unbelievable how Obama stands up there and lies to the world when billions worldwide know bin laden died around 2003. Fuck Off Obama and everything you﻿ stand 4 i spit on. you are filth and a disgrace, the media know the truth yet they spread this propaganda. the worlds awake & karmas a bitch. skitchem 3 days ago

There are too many people living in the US who are very dangerous. And who do we focus on. Some US created boogyman in Pakistan. Very disturbing. The US﻿ needs to stop its domination of the Middle East and they should stop occupying Iraq and Afghanistan. Pull the troops out. elizabethfaraone 3 days ago

Obamas lied to the world and we all witnessed it. this is a disgrace coming from a man who is supposed to serve what is good and right, these guys are nothing more than an evil disgraceful mafia with no Honor. Bin laden died years ago﻿ of liver failure, it was reported on the news so how the fuck could they have killed bimladen in pakistan? it didnt happen i know that for a fact, skitchem 3 days ago

Seems the aim of Alex Jones is to sound like a raving idiot in the hope that it will stop the average brainwashed sheep from taking anything he covers seriously therefore discrediting﻿ anyone else who happens to cover the same stories. Pulsationz 3 days ago

great day for America. I always﻿ knew Obama would do it!!!!Barack is my hero. FUCK ALEX!!!!! who cares anyways? How bout my LAKERS!!!!! TheDirt1970 3 days ago Comment removed Jaahhk 3 days ago

@ihatestupidpeople777 No you are stupid, and ignorant, and it’s not a muslim tradition, they already stated that. What kind of a lie is next? Or what kind of evil are the dirt bags in the whitehouse, CIA, and other agencies up to next? Maybe a flase flag op, and claim Osama’s men did it? You﻿ people are beyond evil, you are the seed of satan no doubt. NWO20122012 3 days ago 3

@NWO20122012 I hope you are a sane person. If you are, You are now rejoicing with the rest of the real people in the world who are nothing less than extatic over the news that the World’s Worst Person Is Dead!

Hurrah! To the Seals who put a merciful end to this Sub-Human’s existence. ﻿ Hurrah! That the EVIL BASTARD IS NOW DEAD!

@YosupMofo Your one of those Americans that prove my point that America is nothing but the world’s biggest hateful force. You guys always need something to call “EVIL”, look at this list: the French, the Native Indians, the Brits, Mexicans, Japanese, Koreans, Communists, black people and brown people are “EVIL” for your society and now you got Muslims to call “evil”, now that Bin Laden is dead, who is it going to be next? How come you never see﻿ the REAL evil yourself and Israel. MrFuhrer2009 2 days ago

@MrFuhrer2009 If you believe Israel is more evil than the muslim nation thats where your wrong. Israeli people do not strap bombs on their children and tell them to bomb other people. You don’t see israeli insurgents﻿ bombing their own synagogues like muslims bomb their own mosques. Your such a hypocrite. romka4567 2 days ago

@romka4567 Uh shut your useless bickering sheeple, “Israeli people dont strap bombs…” Well they dont need to cos they got a legit military, U.S. funded weapons, bomber jets, bomber ships, and nukes. “You dont see Israeli insurgents bombing their own synagogues.” Well I sure hear of them bombing mosques in Palestine, yet that doesn’t count for you.﻿ And do you really think these “muslims” who bomb mosques are really muslims? Hell no, these are really CIA/Mossad agents and thier mission is to… MrFuhrer2009 2 days ago

@romka4567 (continued) demonize Islam to the fullest. These people who “strap﻿ bombs and kill others” are not Muslims they are funded by America and Israel to do these things so fear and loathing is maintained in this planet. Even if they are muslims, they are hypocrites and haven’t read a single verse of the quran in their lives. They will all repent, including America and Israel, this “Bin Laden” figure is a hoax, to begin with he was funded by the CIA, so America has blood on her own hands. MrFuhrer2009 2 days ago

The death of osama bin laden.

Hahaha, the globalists ultimate weapon was a fizzle. Keep debunking the idiots like﻿ RKOwens4, and EdgemanLL2. TheJamesrocket 3 days ago

Bin Goldstein.﻿ Strateg68 3 days ago

alex jona﻿ Snogale12 3 days ago

Blah blah blah Alex shut up the﻿ hell satanisjhvh 3 days ago

when politicians’ actions behind the scenes correspond﻿ to their speeches then……Moderation and balance is the key and thats how creations still kickin, think about it….

TheVLucifer 3 days ago

You may not know that you’re doing a huge favor to those “politicians”. Its clear form the whole thing, that they want to be vague. Confusing is a powerful tool to control and it might be the last resort to control public after the﻿ awakening from the cloudy orientation by the media -previous- since all of those conspiracy theorists are magnifying. Politics these days is layer beneath a layer and getting complicated till we all screwed!! TheVLucifer 3 days ago

the only thing worse than﻿ this fat moron are the morons that listen to this idiot alltiedup217 3 days ago

Fucking﻿ idiot. satanisjhvh 3 days ago

Alex ‘Please buy Gold before the world ends’ Jones﻿ is a gold merchant agent. You can see how fat he’s getting off of his payouts. TheDavidson1932 3 days ago 2

So Prince William and Kate Middleton happen to get marry on the anniversary of Hitler and Eva Braun’s marriage. So what?﻿ Charles and Diana didn’t, the Queen and Philip didn’t, Andrew and Fergie didn’t etc, etc.

Thanks Alex we all know that Osama was killed by Photoshop and media for people it doesn’t matter he is dead or not the most important thing in it is that media and Osama Obama called him﻿ dead :))) maori340 3 days ago

A ‘BAMINATION: ‘laughing BECAUSE his foundational BOGUS Birth Claim FRAUD RATES ANOTHER﻿ SICK PERVERSION of a CONSTITUTIONAL US of A: Thieving NWO Neo-cons have hoodwinked US population for multi-trillions dollars: 1998-USD: NWO hordes (67%; NYC) over 1/3 approximately 5.5 football fields of the world’s estimated 8.25 football fields-worth of GOLD that has ever been mined; accumulated, over the recent 52 months, has been 1/2 of the heist: so ‘ya, the speaker is SICK WITH LAUGHTER! LogicCheck 3 days ago This has been flagged as spam show LogicCheck 3 days ago

Watch my short video. It tells the truth about Osama,﻿ and discusses our government’s history of false flag terror and foreign entanglements.

watch?v=FyT9PTCT6wU mattius83 3 days ago

i hate how in under 1 hour everybody was celebrating, shows how much the media has people by the﻿ balls. Pivotman1 3 days ago 55

@Pivotman1 “They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, and were not sufficiently interested in public events﻿ to notice what was happening.” – George Orwell, 1984

TheeUnidentified 3 days ago 13

HEY WHERE DID YOU﻿ GET THAT QUOTE FROM?

ducejr20 2 days ago

@Pivotman1 Thats because they are sheeple…. The favoured persons﻿ in the elite’s eyes… MrENGLISHBULL 3 days ago

@Pivotman1 Ha, looks like Alex Jones has you and others like you by the balls fuck stick! This guy is a fucking fraud and idiots like you suck his bullshit up like bottom feeders. Alex Jones has never predicted a fucking thing correctly and his theories are the product of a narcissistic, monomaniacal crackpot. That fake Photo was generated by Alex Jones himself and he’s﻿ laughing at you mind clones, all the way to the bank! Chumps! ViolentWhiteBeard 3 days ago

@ViolentWhiteBeard Looks like the main stream media has you by the balls or mabey the VAGINA..﻿ lol matttafakt 3 days ago

@matttafakt At least mainstream media gives us a multiple choice to believe or not to believe and use our own minds. This guy talks only one way! Negative! People who sit around and listen to this fucking gnome lie everyday are idiots. None of his predictions ever come true and his theories don’t hold water either. He makes his living lying﻿ and fear mongering. I watched his Obama Deception vid and it was not only a wsate of time, it was a farce! ViolentWhiteBeard 2 days ago

@Pivotman1﻿ i know its very sickening

pkmuffun 3 days ago

2:13﻿ LOL! mrsalmon1984 3 days ago

@mrsalmon1984 HAHAHA! I thought the first one he said was funny… but when i saw that one i dieddd laughing hahahah﻿ Jaahhk 3 days ago

“I’m getting﻿ chills right now!” MrStylus88 3 days ago

Of course the picture is fake. The government didn’t release the official one yet!﻿ MikeyBoobs11 3 days ago

Really? Ice? wow..

Theirs footage of the mans house﻿ and room covered in blood and citizens of Abbottabad who heard and witnessed the raid.

Also it wasn’t “Corporate Media” that’s responsible for that photo. they’re just responsible for distributing it, whether they were aware it was a fake or not. I know people who can Photoshop better than that, It’s not hard. opydopy 3 days ago

@txhou1833 huh? you look stuff up? ok good for you…..what question am i﻿ supposedto ask? Clearly the DNA was of the highest importance and needed to get done as soon as possible. rob3223 3 days ago

@sk1ller11 | clay? sand? is this a desert thing? i prefer the gothic ‘ashes and dust’﻿ metaphor myself.. dljc1979 3 days ago

HA!!! JONES﻿ THE TEXAN BULL!!!!! dljc1979 3 days ago 2

JONES THE CELTIC BULL!!!!!﻿ dljc1979 3 days ago

I’d really like to know why all these idiots are on my fb celebrating his death like they’re about to throw a party or something. I assumed he was dead long ago. Cause all they’re gonna do is reveal someone who is worse or his protege ﻿ and then when he is dead so on and so forth. selftaughtninja 3 days ago 2

He has such good information, why does it dress it up with bullshit stories about being﻿ pursued and all that? Makes him look like a jackass. No sensible person is just going to take his word on this. ScarTissue111907 3 days ago

ok i knw osama was cia an stuff but you knw the nwo an goverment are loving the fact tht real crazy muslims are goin to be pissed an could do shit now tht there leader is death think bout it its like sum guy shootin a gang leader his gang or fallowers will come after the ones who did it . the﻿ goverment will use this as a tool to take more of our freedom an rights like the gun laws no one seems to see obama passin or drawnin up cuz there to blind over the fake killi of a fake bad guy he was cia brandon38503 3 days ago

The proof is everywhere you don’t need﻿ this goof ball to see the truth, Bin Laden was dead a LONG time ago there are 100s and 100s “conspiracy theorists” or FBI and CIA agents who have come forward and trying to tell us the truth and they have gone missing, died mysteriously and have put on an instant gag order, Benazir Bhutto was assassinated because she said Bin Laden has been murdered and this was just 2 years ago, how did people forget that? MrFuhrer2009 3 days ago

@MrFuhrer2009﻿ Because ppl are docile sheep. I’ve almost given up trying to explain anything to these sheep. It’s useless. No one really thinks for themselves anymore. Except maybe your guys. selftaughtninja 3 days ago 2

When I heard this on the radio﻿ this morning as driving down the road, I couldn’t believe my ears. I wanted to press rewind. Malarkey. lovethe1wolves 3 days ago

good Birther distraction? seem’s this happened when everyone is hammering obama about his birth place﻿ Fordstangfan 3 days ago

someone needs to take his﻿ crazy pills. SirGomez81 3 days ago

How do we know the government isn’t paying this guy do to﻿ what he’s doing??? BrandonHasAChannel 3 days ago

Did they have﻿ any unbiased people examine the body just to make sure. 692ALBANNACH 3 days ago

Alex is still alive because THEY DON’T NEED TO﻿ GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYONE, they have quadrillions of dollars in assets and land, they own EVERYTHING, they can kill anyone at anytime. They LOVE to play their fuckin game because to them we are all CONSUMER MUPPET SLAVES, end of story.

The media said that he was buried in﻿ accordance to Muslim law. Is this true? WJValente 3 days ago

If this﻿ is true how is Alex still alive? TomAdams20 3 days ago

well mr solarstorm, he said a million in the last two hours. Infowars is much more then just osama bin laden articles﻿ too. And in the “scheme” of things your sites so called 17million DAILY views isnt shit compared to the 6 billion+ people on this earth (your logic). I rather see you call him a moron or praise him then come here to brag about a sun site getting 17million view in a day.

JGhipHOP101 3 days ago

@novakhockey24 you raise﻿ no valid point you just called him some names. i might take you serious. JGhipHOP101 3 days ago

Respond to this video… Alert icon Sign In or Sign Up now to post a comment!

►►► Alex, a million or so a day is not that many in the scheme of things when you consider there are some six billion people. Example: My site receives at least17 million views daily, and climbing fast. Goes to show you that more people are concerned about the sun then Osama Bin Laden. Wake up Alex, the sun is a much bigger story as the earth just got﻿ slammed for nearly three days straight. If the CME’s get any stronger, we can lose power world wide for months. ►WAKE UP ALEX◄ SolarStormWarning 3 days ago

you raise no valid point. not﻿ only do you make your self look like a moron, but your a disgrace to our country. Your the biggest piece of crap on this earth. you your self sir are the reason people hate us.

novakhockey24 3 days ago

this guy needs to﻿ get a life… playing the victim in life sucks man. get a job ! hellspit2003 3 days ago

i have been waiting all day to see what alex had﻿ to say…. then i heard he was buried at sea…. cant believe the insanity yay78900 3 days ago

I’m an Anarcho-Communist,﻿ and I listen to Alex Jones. gaaraman082 3 days ago

YES! It is a Hoax/make up! What NEXTT…﻿ GullJaan52 3 days ago

alex﻿ jones is a turd Chitownboy1023 3 days ago

This is real news… It makes﻿ me sick even to hear anything that comes across that bullshit corporate news broadcast SunlitAries1625 3 days ago

I think they should have wrapped him in bacon﻿ before they shoved him overboard. rpbrooksbank1 3 days ago

@rpbrooksbank1 the only thing in that coffin was a brick, 2lbs. of bacon and a picture of Barack in a gimp suit getting railed by Michelle﻿ with a strap on. dasupa666 3 days ago

y the﻿ fuck does this video has twice the likes than views??????? bmattiscool 3 days ago

@bmattiscool …are you drunk dude…??

there are more views than likes/dislike,s…maybe a﻿ glitch..? goonerash 3 days ago

So why are they﻿ calling him “Usama” instead of Osama now? TheRealTrilbyDiamond 3 days ago

Hitler﻿ died on April 30th

Just putting it out there chernobila 3 days ago

What really terrifies me it’s the people believing this lie. Partying in front of White House.

USA is decaying like Antique Rome very fast.

So many years of brainwashing finally are paying for﻿ the elite. TyPaen 3 days ago

@hatestupidpeople777… think no1 should believe the death of him… we need proof!!! a video or a pic which is not edited & muslims﻿ buri people like christians i guess 6ft underground hazedgame 3 days ago

and i did more research and yes i see now that the﻿ only sea burial allowed for muslims are if they died at sea. calm down i wasnt trying to make a stab at muslims. people think way too much of every little piece of information they get. ihatestupidpeople777 3 days ago

@roonoon i wrote that because some idiot called me a creationist catholic because i had a 777 at﻿ the end of my name. people are really stupid ihatestupidpeople777 3 days ago

so many likes, yet﻿ so little views??? joes805 3 days ago

@joes805 so do you belive its a hoax??﻿ dstudentsuccess7 3 days ago

@dstudentsuccess7 why﻿ joes805 3 days ago

@joes805 That was a deal he made with youtube…Remember a couple months back when they were going to shut all of the Alex Jones related channels down? well, his views stop at 303 so he can’t make﻿ any money off his broadcasts. He actually gets millions of views…..per vlog dasupa666 3 days ago

damn illuminati.﻿ dstudentsuccess7 3 days ago

@foxlies247365 i was told about this video from someone who actually believes it and had to look it up to see what an idiot this guy really was. so i watched to see what he had to say and found it to be ignorant and pointless.﻿ you think i really care if he got one more view because i went to the page? ihatestupidpeople777 3 days ago

wow. i put 777 for no reason, you ignorant people think way too much of stuff.﻿ i wanted the name “ihatestupidpeople” but it was taken and youtube suggest “ihatestupidpeople777″ Also, whoever decided to bury him at sea misunderstood islamic tradition. They were told that it was ok, but in fact was only ok if they had died on a ship. ihatestupidpeople777 3 days ago

i love﻿ this guy! He’s hilarious! and I do believe him! TheJspyder136 3 days ago

—=There﻿ is NO MUSLIM BURIAL @ SEA=—

Only LAND BURIAL! maokly1 3 days ago

may day thats right it is a great day , i had a brill one ,, but i know obummer hasnt

right dickheads what you lot going to do about it ,you﻿ got a false president that selling you lot out , isnt even from your country , na you lot will do fuck all, just like when your government did 911 , MtEVALs 3 days ago

01:52 LMAO!!! ROFL!!!!!﻿

YOU DIE!!!! 02:13 TheJspyder136 3 days ago

As a Muslim I can say﻿ there is no such thing as sea burial, we are all made from clay and so shall we return to that form (sand) SMD U.S you cant fool us. sk1ller11 3 days ago 25

If you don’t believe conspiracy than join the next fight against terror and get the hell﻿ out of this country. Let the man with logic help the people in this country not the ignorant fool. chrisbasketball10 3 days ago

If you don’t believe in conspiracy join the next fight against terror on Pakistan and get the hell off this land. I feel sympathy for the Muslims and I’m white. God bless all.﻿ Thank you alex chrisbasketball10 3 days ago

O.K. That’s weird. I just like this video. And it showed there were 678 likes for a video that has had only 303 view… Hello.??? Any MATH PROFESSORS AROUND/﻿ wwymore 3 days ago

this video should get around 60k+ views since﻿ “likes” are usually around .01 percent of views. 1Sentinel1 3 days ago

I was kind of wondering why they dumped Bin Ladens body off an aircraft carrier. Seems like they didnt want the public getting any﻿ CURRENT photos of the corpse to see what really happend and how long ago…..As soon as I heard that I was suspicious. Xcorgi 3 days ago

i hate you﻿ voice so much i kinda wanna punch u in the throat. onelaststand1 3 days ago

you right alex﻿ omegaking1 3 days ago

Alex Jones is an IDIOT. So are everyone else that are uneducated accusing the government for “dumping” his body in the water and etc. We DID do dna testing, AND we went with muslim tradition and buried him at sea which like i﻿ said is MUSLIM TRADITION. People are stupid and ignorant, and so is Alex Jones. ihatestupidpeople777 3 days ago

@ihatestupidpeople777 Hate urself! there is no Muslim tradition regarding sea burial! We come from Earth and We return to it! ONLY LAND BURIAL!

STFU u dont know﻿ what u talking about.

Alex u keep doing your thing! 10/10 maokly1 3 days ago 31

@maokly1 Well said man. It is irritating to hear and read﻿ some people who presume to know something that completely ignore. SoTtOMaN829 3 days ago

@ihatestupidpeople777 yet you continue to watch him…what does﻿ that make you? FoxLies247365 3 days ago

@ihatestupidpeople777 You were with muslim tradition and buried him at sea which like MUSLIM TRADITION says? Really? Excuse me but you don’t know shit about islam.﻿ Islam only recognizes the burial of a corpse on the mainland. If it is true that they have thrown the body into the sea, Islam is completely contrary. The way in which they have treated “the body” is going to cause problems, especially because it will give ammunition to radical groups to doubt the operation. SoTtOMaN829 3 days ago

@SoTtOMaN829 According to some Muslim laws: If it is feared that an enemy may dig up the grave and exhume the dead body and amputate﻿ its ears or nose or other limbs, it should be lowered into the sea, if possible. elizabethfaraone 3 days ago

@elizabethfaraone Yes, but that is a special case, if there is fear of an﻿ enemy attack, and this is not the case right? Because in that case according to muslims the only enemy that could do that are the US. Anyway there is not just ONE single conclusive proof of Bin Laden’s death. They took a DNA test & buried the body at sea. WTF! What is the proof? Liars! SoTtOMaN829 3 days ago

@ihatestupidpeople777 Well then you must really hate yourself because you are a total retard. 777 huh I think that indicates you are just a dumbass Christian and probably a creationist too. People like﻿ you will believe anything that they’re told. If thats how you deal with the world you don’t deserve to have an opinion. DeathBYDesign666 3 days ago

That’s all they want, that the rest of the idiot public buy whatever they told about killing terrorist. I also not born﻿ to become an idiot of all state criminals say. They supposedly kill Bin Laden and bury him at sea? So come on! While people in New York is celebrating as if the Yankees won the championship. WTF! That’s unreal.

SoTtOMaN829 3 days ago

The facts are clear, we do have a conspiracy going on in our own soil. The Death of JFK was the moment Americans should’ve taken action against our own governemnt. Now since september 11, 2001, Bush destroyed the 4 admendment, due to his Patriot Act. Change has been happening, and us as﻿ americans have all just been seing this happen before our eyes. Now with the so called “death of Osama” More problems are going to come. Especially that the photo is photoshoped. America, lets fight for peace! HeRoICLaRRy 3 days ago

Alex Jones needs﻿ to get his facts straight. Hitler wasn’t killed on May Day, he was killed on the 30th of April, but germany announced it on the first. And it’s not like the royals got married on May Day (which is may 1st not 2nd Alex) they got married two days before. If I get married two days before 420 that doesn’t mean that I’m obsessed with weed. callmebirdman21 3 days ago

I wonder how﻿ long it will be before this guy makes the claim that the entire world leadership is composed of extraterrestrials who are bent on turning the galaxy into a giant jelly-bean manufacturing plant. SashaXXY 3 days ago

Yea. Who﻿ knows who all these detractors are but I personally am glad that you were here to give the hard news when most of the others were sitting there with stories that are months old. I also thought you were really cool on Debunking show on History at the Bohemian Grove. Keep up the good work. We can’t please everybody and expecially provauteurs. Love Light Smith Lovelightsmith 3 days ago

HAHAHAHA! The government didn’t kill Kennedy. The mob did.﻿ Kennedy was putting a heavy hammer on organized crime when he was in presidency. There are some conspiracies that make sense. But that one I know wasn’t government related. MafiaMan5437 3 days ago

in the usa ur innocent until proven guilty .. sooo what does that mean to Bin Laden?? they﻿ killed him before his day in court and wow his body was chunked in the sea with out no one seeing his body and DNA exam ..c’mon u dont have to be into what Alex Jones says to smell bullshit txhou1833 3 days ago 3

@txhou1833 A. He opened fired at the seals, if he didn’t he wouldn’t have died.﻿ B. THEY DID DNA TESTING, took photos and video. Seargent363 3 days ago

@Seargent363 how long does it take for a DNA ?? more the hrs thats for sure .. since when does it take 5hrs or less for DNA? photos? u mean the ones that are alll over the net .. yeah u go and believe thats him … ﻿ txhou1833 3 days ago

@txhou1833 dude its the president they probably had a expert dna staff on call waiting for it. couple﻿ hours tops.

not that hard nowadays. you could mail away for dna verification nowadays for christs sake. rob3223 3 days ago

@rob3223 that all good .. u believe what u want and i believe what i want .. i look stuff﻿ up and no not just on youtube and thats what i came up whith .. no big deal if im wrong im wrong if im not thats not any better .. but just ask question dont just say ok to whatever they say .. ask why how and anything else .. txhou1833 3 days ago

The photo is a known FAKE even before Alex Jones opened his mouth I knew it was fake, but that photo was not released by the US government, unless you think it is the CIA covering its ass. Seargent363 3 days ago

@Seargent363 at this point theres no tellin whats what or whos doing what .. they﻿ really havent said anything .. everything everyone knows is whats been going on online … .. all im saying is that theres a fosho reason why its now and not 10 yrs ago look for info on ur own and not just the news .. if im wrong all good i hope i am lol txhou1833 3 days ago

Alex Jones certainly loves to toot his own horn. It’s seems so important to him that﻿ we should know how much of a threat he is considered by the establishment. revaluator 3 days ago

Alex Jones knows it’s all pretend or he wouldn’t be putting﻿ on a fake voice and weird persona while attempting to expose the “truth”. LAPunk1986 3 days ago

again U.S gov fuck it up…

nothing proper about this. it cant be protocol to dispose of evidence (his body)﻿ komaki119 3 days ago

I figured Alex would jump right on this﻿ one first thing Monday morning.. aaaand he didn’t disappoint :) USAdude30 3 days ago

Nothing is real to Alex Jones! Hen the Space Shuttle﻿ launches is it just camera trickery? When a player hits a homerun is it government technology? When I ejaculate is it chem-trails? ReallyRick 3 days ago

@george2648 I’m the sheep? Curious, because you’re the one that is getting so passionate about your great leader ‘Alex Jones.’ I’m an anarchist – that means NO GODS NO MASTERS. I won’t let anyone tell me﻿ what do think, especially nut bags like Alex Jones. juancorrea503 3 days ago 2

Alex Jones is a melodramatic, self-promoting egomaniac. I can’t take him seriously with the theatrics, his fake voice, his attitude of “look how stupid you are and how genius I am to see the truth”. Stop advertising yourself and trying to be cool, and start providing facts without innuendo or comparisons to blockbuster﻿ movies. LAPunk1986 3 days ago

@LAPunk1986 lol﻿ true. runhorun 3 days ago

Alex you’re bang on these﻿ are all occult high holidays. redeem72 3 days ago

Maybe﻿ they trying to put the media attention into Bin Laden instead of putting it into the fact that Ghadafi son and grand children’s where killed by NATO BOmbing SpreadItEverywhere 3 days ago

@SpreadItEverywhere Bingo…..plus the next event(s) they got lined up on their﻿ little list. redeem72 3 days ago

its amazing﻿ how much alex jones resembles cartman. rockfeller11 3 days ago 15

@ilovegnomeland Alex Jones is an actor. He﻿ is trying to make you think that “the people” don’t have any power and we are doomed. For example talking about a photoshopped Birth Certificate, or a fake picture of Bin Laden takes your energy from the issues that really matter. Even if this was honestly a fake, all he is telling us is speculation – we’ll never get answers. But if we vote, organize and build new parties that aren’t affiliated with Republicans or Dems, and support People we will make juancorrea503 3 days ago

I’ll truelly﻿ beleive he’s dead when I see the body. BgbadWulof 3 days ago

As my understand a DNA test takes from 5 to 10 days to﻿ run… how can they have a result now? pteresasilva 3 days ago

@pteresasilva He has been dead for a﻿ week before hand. Seargent363 3 days ago

@Seargent363 but wasn’t the attack﻿ yesterday? pteresasilva 3 days ago

@pteresasilva No, just misinformation, he﻿ was only confirmed dead last night. Seargent363 3 days ago

@Seargent363 if he’s been dead﻿ for a week then it’s a lie that they buried him within 24 hours in accordance with islamic law. p0r110 3 days ago

@p0r110 Once they found out it﻿ was him they did, because without knowing who he was how would one know he was a Muslim????? Seargent363 3 days ago

@ilovegnomeland Some of﻿ the issues are true, and you Alex Jones discusses some of them. But the issue is is where he is leading you. He is putting people into a dangerous arena. The information might not all be wrong, and he points out valid concerns, but those are also concerns that other media outlets are reporting on too, but without conspiracy, without rhetoric, and without brainwashing people. juancorrea503 3 days ago

there you have it, admited by pechenik on april 24 2002 that bim laden was dying, and now they exspect us to belive he was shot and died yesterday, lmao,﻿ next thing they will tell us a submarine saw moby dick eating bin laden. lmao@the goverments and mainstream meadia whores, its a weaker fairy tale than obama birthdaygate. irishgeal1 3 days ago

Hmmm…”Geronimo” maybe the skull and bones﻿ set will keep his skull as a trophy or prank or rite of passage.Maybe it will be offered to Moloch at the next Bohemian Grove ceremony. KilroyWasHere444 3 days ago

You’re so rapped up in “who is the antichrist” and other propaganda, all while Alex Jones﻿ and the rest of the Right Wing nuts are leading you to your grave. See one thing that Alex Jones won’t tell you is American’s still have enough power in the Constitution. You’re sitting at your desk pissing your pants thinking that the government is coming, but you should be out in the streets making sure THE PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER, not corporations, not the Tea Party – you have power. juancorrea503 3 days ago

if this guy has the inside scoop how come﻿ they havent taken him out? mexicanpowerputo 3 days ago

they’re claiming they buried Osama at sea right away because of Islamic tradition.

yeah, right…did they bury the million Muslims they’ve killed in the last ten years in Iraq and Afghanistan within﻿ a day? WhereIsTruth 3 days ago

Hitler died on April 30, not May 1﻿ you dumb, uneducated redneck clown. treehouse722 3 days ago

@treehouse722 yeah, but when they announce his death? dumbass﻿ Ayasdantsi 3 days ago

@ilovegnomeland I’m by no means a support for﻿ current policy. In fact, I moved to Canada because the political arena has become insane. The issue that I take with this is that Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, Rush, etc are funded through the government and tell YOU people what to think. Alex Jones is using a socialist heart to have you vote Republican. And in the mean time, while you’re watching these conspiracies, the same party is killing your civil liberties. juancorrea503 3 days ago

@juancorrea503 That’s not﻿ true. He exposes the 2 party scam. I go on Infowars everday, I don’t buy into everything I hear, but he never endorses anyone but maybe Ron Paul. He acknowledges that Rep/Dem is a “divide and conquer” tactic. ilovegnomeland 3 days ago

Alex Jones is﻿ nuts but he’s fuckin brilliant at the same time.

IMO Osama is dead but the fact they haven’t released photo’s or video has just added to the speculation.

On every other occasion, Che Guevara, Saddam, Saddams sons, Al-Zarqawi, pictures were released along with the official statement….for some reason this time they’ve done things differently.

Either way I don’t really give a shit, Osama is one guy, his ideology will continue to exist. NoriokoTheMagicSkunk 3 days ago

Alex Jones: the only reason why I am on here is because I’m amazed at all the people you are swaying. You are a﻿ fear monger. FU, for making ignorant people think they are smart. juancorrea503 3 days ago

@juancorrea503 And the U.S. government is innocent of﻿ “fear mongering”???? ilovegnomeland 3 days ago

@juancorrea503 FYI: I didn’t need Alex to make me scared. The government, with it’s ability to lie to the populace, engage in illegal wars, destroy the economy, allow illegal aliens into my country, abuse of Executive Orders, install the police state, etc, put fear in me LONG before I ever heard of Alex﻿ Jones. I get what you’re saying, in the respect that he is very dramatic, but he by NO means put that fear in me. The gov’t did that all on their own. ilovegnomeland 3 days ago

much love and respect to you alex jones(you are for me the best journalist in the world) thank you very much for﻿ your professionel and corage works ORANAISEable 3 days ago

so they threw him overboard no burial? what if﻿ he makes a new video? immanuelthe25th 3 days ago

oh.my god alex jones you﻿ a moron!! sepron5 3 days ago

what a wonderful government we have !

what a wonderful puppet we have,﻿ we love you obama !

what a wonderful fellow citizens we are, we gone keep obey!

If you a agree with me press the dislike button TheMasterTori 3 days ago

Can only lol @ all the gullible people that believe everything this guy says, and you guys say everyone is ‘brainwashed’,﻿ irony. DanM1092 3 days ago

303 views, 567﻿ likes??? ilovegnomeland 3 days ago 20

@ilovegnomeland

lol﻿ zuckini007 3 days ago

@ilovegnomeland They did the same thing to﻿ Ron Paul in 2008 jb4rp2012 3 days ago

@ilovegnomeland That is normal for﻿ a viral video. mrdeleted 3 days ago

@ilovegnomeland It’s always like this, it takes couple of hours before you﻿ see all the views AlicelnWonderIand 3 days ago

@ilovegnomeland its﻿ a fucking graphic glitch get over it. onelaststand1 3 days ago

@ilovegnomeland dickheads , so when did this become about views lol bunch of zombies lol fake pictures nowayyyyyyyy lol ffs now tell alex back to japan what happened there , then say right why is obummer still in office even after all this you monkeys﻿ MtEVALs 3 days ago

we have become a﻿ nation of sheep….smh. rarafrom215 3 days ago

there censoring﻿ your channel by fucking up the views thts just plain evil fuck the NWO 100PercentTHCfilms 3 days ago

besides supposedly being behind﻿ 911 what else has he pulled ? ELCHINGODEWILMAS310 3 days ago

What a bunch of paranoid maniacs. Even the only happy moment the country is having in the middle of some of the darkest times, you parasites somehow manage to poison﻿ it with your mindless rubbish, denials and delusions. DrInfidel 3 days ago

You guys know that﻿ the doctored photo that is in this video is like.. years old right? It has been circulating around the internet for a long time now.

I’d like to see an article or video from a major news outlet that actually used the doctored photo.

You guys need to keep your skeptic’s hat on, even when it comes to people whose opinions you agree with. ImOutOfLine 3 days ago

@ImOutOfLine New York Post, The Daily Mail, SkyNews….just to name a few news outlets that used the fake photos﻿ p0r110 3 days ago

Aren’t there﻿ enough action movies for you conspiracy theorists to get your kicks out of? SwedeSamuli 3 days ago

If they can’t show his dead body I won’t believe them. It is set up!..Will never believe Obama, He lies and will not﻿ end with lies. It is funny, they hire Osama and kill him, to me it is 10 years to late. Why wait all this years and make that kind of statement. This stink!….He is not dead. sungmee45 3 days ago

stop with the date conspiracy bullshit please. oh this is the same day hitler died….there are only 365 days in a year!! if something big happens on one of these 365 days we trace it back to something else and go oh wow they planned this. stop…get fuckin﻿ real mrsotko 3 days ago

ALEX JONES A LIVING LEGEND…﻿ cieloworm 3 days ago

548 likes, 303 views lol wtf????? Great show﻿ AJ!!!! whytesapph 3 days ago 3 This has been flagged as spam show Salihovicable 3 days ago

did you know may﻿ first is the Illuminati aniversary!? coincidence? Pope is a saint now, a royal wedding, osama bin laden death, all at the same date…wtf!!! jeckototro 3 days ago

castro&﻿ STATaMelo 3 days ago

the great﻿ fidel casro exposed osama as a CIA agent some time ago STATaMelo 3 days ago This has been flagged as spam show vbear66 3 days ago

@vbear66

Your an idiot. Trump is going to be the biggest YES MAN to the banks we ever had, even more so than Obama. All he gives a shit about is money. If you think he will﻿ do anyhting but start a fuckload of war over oil, then your an absolute retard. Listen to his rhetoric! He obviously has no clue how much he cannot do that until we remove all of the NWO players from congress and senate. Rblotnicky 3 days ago

steven r… steven r… A CHIPMUNK!﻿ titgazer 3 days ago This has been flagged as spam show DeltaNineRnmbr1 3 days ago

Walpurgis Night.﻿ May 1st. Look it up. solidussmith 3 days ago

I wish Alex Jones would refrain from calling it Conspiracy theory when declassified leaked information is fact it is not a theory,﻿ this is how the mainstream media attempts to discredit us. quietman1k 3 days ago

@TekBubs﻿ Not all of us, only the brainwashed muppets and dis info agents who do absolutely no research and believe everything the mainstream media breast feeds them. quietman1k 3 days ago

HI I AM REPORTER DE PAKISTAN, I VIDEO ON MY PHONE WHERE I LIVE, IT IS CHAOS!

/watch?v=KS11g4CG2pU﻿ wallymeldrum 3 days ago

fucking right on ﻿ garrethdavis 3 days ago

if you are taking this as anything more than entertainment then i﻿ feel sorry for your mother (asian woman in menace to society voice)! FORCE1COMBAT 3 days ago

WHAT ABOUT GIVING HIM A FUCKING TRIAL>???> WHO SAYS HE﻿ EVEN DID 9-11? chillyrooster 3 days ago 32

@chillyrooster Yeah and who say the Osama we﻿ knew from tv was even him at all F1brawfa 3 days ago

@chillyrooster He opened fire at them(at least according the government, but that is no a viable excuse)﻿ Seargent363 3 days ago

@chillyrooster If people took the time to do some research of their own, they’ll find the FBI and CIA have already said that there was NEVER a confirmed tie between Iraq, Bin Laden, or even Al Qaeda when it came to 9-11. Even if he took credit for it that doesn’t make it true. Bottom line yes, a trial he should﻿ have, no matter how evil he is. This country sickens me, are we any better than the “terrorists” if we actually CELEBRATE the death of another individual? hunter047 3 days ago

@chillyrooster thank-you -that is a very good statement that proves you are thinking

too many people aren’t thinking for themselves,﻿ and they just accept what is given to them by the mainstream media

I still believe Osama died not long after 9-11

the gov’t lies like a rug about so much…. CattitudeInterlude 3 days ago

@chillyrooster I﻿ believe he did.. He took credit for it.

DJCovell 3 days ago

@chillyrooster um i think he﻿ said he did it didnt he? fumpfy 3 days ago

10 YEARS later, we’re still waiting for the Evidence﻿ that Bin Laden did 9/11.

The FBI’s Most Wanted List never had Bin Laden for 9/11. EMPIREofPUPPETS 3 days ago

@chillyrooster

Obama scam for re election. also to divert attention from a dwindelling american﻿ dollard and economie. God protect us all Mrdukerockefeller 3 days ago 2

Steven Spielberg came up with the Bin Laden﻿ story.

Had to be Spielberg. EMPIREofPUPPETS 3 days ago

@chillyrooster They were never﻿ after him for 9-11, he was wanted for other admitted attacks

mattcliffe1 3 days ago

OK, now that “Osama Bin Laden is dead”, what is the next big thing/excuse the World Government will be using﻿ to kill people? africanbrotha1 3 days ago 3

@africanbrotha1 They will hit Chicago or Oklahoma, another false flag basically. ﻿ garrethdavis 3 days ago

@garrethdavis Prove it﻿ Seargent363 3 days ago

@Seargent363 for Chicago, Rahm Emanuel is the new mayor, he’s a man who sends fish heads to dissenters. Silverstein has revoked﻿ insurance payments on a number of buildings. When was the last time that happened? You know it, 911. I don’t want to be right I wish I was 100% wrong. But I’m just analysing facts and joining the dots. garrethdavis 3 days ago

@garrethdavis Thanks, I will look into those.﻿ Seargent363 3 days ago

@Seargent363 No problem. I appreciate it.﻿ Please do garrethdavis 3 days ago

Barack Obama is a﻿ 32nd degree Prince Hall Freemason member of the Martinist Order which is why many freemasons voted for him and funded him in his 2008 campaign if you had viewed his campaign website. quietman1k 3 days ago

Haha Colin Powell talking about how throwing his body overboard was proper in Muslim burial but wait a sec in the Muslim religion they only allow a body to be Buried at sea when that person﻿ has passed away on a boat raft etc…. But for this to take place the person has to die at sea, he supposedly died on land this is a farce only idiots would believe the media! latinluigi 3 days ago

Isn’t it interesting that they killed Osama, conducted a DNA test﻿ to prove it was him, and then promptly dump his body in the ocean?Why not have his family members from Saudi Arabia confirm it was his body? tinetubes 3 days ago

@tinetubes AS they have said if you believe the official story, they didn’t want the extremists taking the corpse. Since Osama did work for the CIA and probably have fingerprints on OSama. Plus, didn’t he die a week ago and was just announced dead yesterday so maybe they did see the body and the news is just not reporting it or the information has﻿ not been released yet. Seargent363 3 days ago

@Seargent363 Exactly, so why is the mainstream media acting like he died yesterday? When CNN reported this late last night, they didn’t even mention the fact﻿ his body was dumped in the sea, you had to read it on their news feed that appears on the bottom of the screen. Something’s not right here, why be so quick to dispose of the body of the most wanted man in the world? tinetubes 3 days ago

@tinetubes How long would the journey back stateside will be on an aircraft carrier, because maybe they didn’t want him stinking up the place if it took so long or have the ship sunk(But that could still happened anyway) for having the body on board. There is more to the story that hasn’t been released yet and probably will be in time one way or the other, but﻿ there was a raid, that much is true, due to twitter and part of the raid on video. Seargent363 3 days ago

@Seargent363 C’mon, are you serious? This is/was the most wanted man in the world, why be so quick﻿ to dispose of the body before anyone knew what was happening? Something really stinks here, it’s almost as if they didn’t want anyone to look at his body. Now that his body is at the bottom of the ocean, there is no way to confirm if it is him or not. tinetubes 3 days ago

@tinetubes I wouldn’t say waiting a couple weeks is fast, but I am just thinking all the angles. There is still a way to examine the﻿ body, but that would requiring to know where to dive since bones still contain DNA. However, I do agree that it is fishy, but I’m not jumping to conclusions. Seargent363 3 days ago

@tinetubes Yep your right this is very strange the most wanted man in the world number one on america,s top ten list is killed according to Obama but instead to show him to the world like Saddam they dipose him quickly doesn,t the american ppl and the world have the right to see the evidence? Well i hope﻿ they gonna show us some footage and pics of Binladen death body to convince me. Loveisintheair85 3 days ago

The mainstream media was already setting the stage for DHS and the TSA to expand their molesting of children, not just at airports, but everywhere else in America. The mainstream﻿ media aren’t wasting any time to justify taking away our liberties are they? They have no shame, this story was only a couple of hours old, and the mainstream media couldn’t wait to use this story as an opportunity to expand martial law in America. tinetubes 3 days ago

I’m not surprised Infowars has had an influx of activity since this news of Osama’s death was revealed. The mainstream media’s view and opinion on this issue was revealed when they used this event to justify TSA and DHS abuse of the American people. Those of us who are Alex Jones fans couldn’t wait to hear his viewpoint after hearing﻿ what CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of the mainstream media had to say about this news. Thank you Alex and Infowars for telling us the truth about these important issues. tinetubes 3 days ago

The MOST WANTED man in history for the last 10﻿ years and finally (drum roll )………………we kill him, and all of a sudden……………..we respect Muslim rights and he has to be buried in a few hours RIGHT after he’s killed. Now I don’t know about you, but something doesn’t seem right to me. Fuck Muslim rights, people around the world deserve to see the body.

MrAk47nut 3 days ago

@MrAk47nut Well if osama didn’t fire back at them they probably would of been taken alive. Although I never expected Osama to want to be taken alive, since he probably actually believed if he died fighting he would have his “virgins.” And no they killed him a week ago and just pronounced him dead yesterday. I just want to see the official photos and film and with wikileaks around that will be reviled one way or﻿ the other. But that burrying at sea does seem suspicious. Seargent363 3 days ago

303﻿ views, 489 likes. how can that be?? africanbrotha1 3 days ago

@africanbrotha1 it’s just a lag, it happens when a video has alot of﻿ views……check back later and you’ll see it catches up. happens all the time. thorkyll 3 days ago

303 views, 489 likes. how﻿ can that be???? africanbrotha1 3 days ago

One way to﻿ simply back all this up is that the News was calling him Usama, and now they are saying Osama again. eaterofcows 3 days ago

after 10 years ﻿ trojAny7000 3 days ago

Offcourse alex isnt dead yet, they﻿ cant just kill him like that. Has to all be timed and carefully planned as to raise as little suspicion as possible. BDCFTO 3 days ago

Youtube restricting hes views. Facebook blocking and taking down this video if posted. Everything is so carefully﻿ controlled. BDCFTO 3 days ago

@BDCFTO what a load of nonsense. alex jones’ videos are all over youtube﻿ and facebook; it’s absolutely laughable to suggest that he’s being restricted. thorkyll 3 days ago

379th comment﻿ is this one Lasse3030 3 days ago

Amerikkka’s government has a DOCUMENTED/INDISPUTABLE history of FALSE FLAG operations and PSY-OPS aimed at their own people. This is a FACT.

The hasty disposal of the alleged body of Bin Laden is highly﻿ suspicious.

It is reminiscent of the way evidence was destroyed after the destruction of the World Trade Center – debris was literally carted off to CHINA for disposition.

Who handles a CRIME SCENE so frivolously, esp given its magnitude?

Only jingoistic MORONS eat this sh@t up! OuTofJoY 3 days ago

i just knew alex jones would have a big﻿ crazy theory about this……… dude, why don’t you THINK for a few days before spewing out a load of conspiracy guess work? Like that birth certificate, if you’d done a little more research, you’d have seen that’s what happens when you use certain adobe scanning software instead of making an idiot out of yourself to the world. thorkyll 3 days ago

@thorkyll

Lay off﻿ Alex he is OUR idiot.

You keep Obama. donnyab 3 days ago

Hitler﻿ died on the 30th of April. bismuthcadmium 3 days ago

@bismuthcadmium His death was revealed to the world at large on the 1st..which is the correlation, Not day of death..the day it was reported to the﻿ world. PlayingGuitarRules 3 days ago

@bismuthcadmium apparently according to wikpedia﻿ Lasse3030 3 days ago

@bismuthcadmium yea no shit. the﻿ announcment was made the 1st drsta84 3 days ago

@bismuthcadmium Actually Hitler was confirmed dead on May 1,﻿ 1945 not April 30th XxJasonRulesXx 3 days ago

guys! come on /watch?v=ZNYmK19-d0U youtube video…. WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! Spam the fuck on this official﻿ whitehouse video …. its going crazy with comments on there.. Lets get the truth out!!! shaolindreams 3 days ago

I’m too lazy to run.﻿ Man you are epic Alex! Suogrey 3 days ago

Yeah, everything with these guys is a “joke”, not a legitimate threat, but a mere “joke” or a “conspiracy theory”. It’s just lies, deceit, and fraud again and again and again.﻿ WJValente 3 days ago

@ 8:35. Wow, Alex, you straight up lied through your teeth, bro, and actually acting like you were reading that from WMD article. Madeleine Albright did NOT say they had Osama “frozen” and “they would roll him out.” She said she believed Bush knew of his whereabouts and that they would announce his capture at an﻿ opportune moment.

I can’t believe you just straight lied like that. seanlaca 3 days ago

@seanlaca

announce his capture at an opportune moment﻿ = would roll him out, don’t you understand plain english ? donnyab 3 days ago

@donnyab She never said “kept him on ice.” And in what world do you equate the word “capture” with “roll him out dead?” This is the﻿ problem with Alex. He distorts or exaggerates the facts which is why when people check those facts, like I do, he loses credibility. I tend to overlook it because I know most of the things he is saying is true, because, once again, I check the facts myself. But when he distorts some of the facts, the newbs rightly discredit him and what he claims. seanlaca 3 days ago

WOW ,I FEEL ON THIS END, HIGH SPEED, TOOK FOR EVER,﻿ I WAS LUCKY I GOT IN , dadhadit 3 days ago

The reason they buried the body at sea is so nobody can claim the body. Last thing we need is the Osama Bin Laden memorial Mosque built﻿ ontop of his dead body. Then you have the Osama Bin Laden “youth” center next to the Mosque. Kinda obvious what’s coming next. net200910 3 days ago

@net200910 thats against islam to host a mosque on top of a dead﻿ body. so thats why

and they dont even have proof of his body. MUJAHID56787 3 days ago

@net200910 oh of﻿ course-that`s it..lol.. bazz7373 3 days ago

@net200910 you are brain﻿ dead. Islam is against building any form of worship on a grave and those who supposedly follow bin laden are almost wahabi monothiestic and they are so against anything to do with graves….your govt is bullshiting you but hey they know the dumb sheep will believe it. glower125 3 days ago

I bet Osama﻿ is alive, the CIA just cut a deal with him to disappear, he’s probably somewhere on a remote island havin’ a Bud…. tmilatos 3 days ago 7

@tmilatos Funny how Alex suggests that he got a nose job and ear work because that’s all that seems to separate Obama from Osama…. I DON’T REALISTICALLY BELIEVE that they would actually take Osama and make him our president… but just check this 30 sec. video out, It’s on my page and it’s called O_ama.. IT WILL give you goosebumps! No photoshop needed, just a picture of Osama and Obama and you can﻿ do this yourself.. I will post this as a video response also… TheSkyWatchers 3 days ago

@tmilatos They probably killed﻿ him. They most likely voided his contract. They used him all they could and got rid of him. DGMikeBarker 3 days ago

Mad respect, Alex. Props to﻿ the patriots who stand against the NWO. brokor1 3 days ago

how﻿ is this guy not dead yet? guasto47 3 days ago

Anyone find the Conspiracy Zone﻿ episode? redpill0 3 days ago

last nite-killing Osama…..next day,today-appearing on Opera laughing it up–distgusting would sum it﻿ up bazz7373 3 days ago

I’m new to alex jones’ videos, but I was wondering…If the Illuminati, secret services, cia, and whatnot know about alex jones spreading the word about the lies and acts they’ve been doing, then wouldn’t they have killed him by now? And then make up a really dumb cover up story?

But yeah…they killed osama and threw him in the ocean? sounds like a great story (sarcasm) …and﻿ why aren’t the soldiers being pulled out then? ojoox 3 days ago

@ojoox We live in a strange world. Why didn’t the Israelis kill Mordechai Vanunu? Or Norman Finkelstein? Or Jeff Halper? Why isn’t Louis Farrakhan dead? And yet, we know others have certainly been assassinated.﻿ givebirthathome 3 days ago

@ojoox I enjoy listening to Jones talk but I’m impartial to what﻿ he says, I don’t know what to believe and what not to believe but you would think that he’s just another fly and doesn’t matter. Alex Jones doesn’t control the mass media, so no matter how big he gets he will never get big enough to affect the outcome, the illuminati wouldn’t even bother. mackayash 3 days ago

@Seargent363 Maybe I should rephrase my statement I have a bad feeling or my “instincts” tell me﻿ something is going to happen. If nothing does happen that is a good thing and is a very desirable outcome. livetotell100 3 days ago 2

@livetotell100 agreed﻿ Seargent363 3 days ago

The Taliban offered to extradite bin Laden to the US in 2001. Before that, Susan Rice, Obama’s present ambassador to the UN, scotched a deal with Sudan who was going to turn him over.﻿ Celebrating “getting” bin Laden in 2011 after over 5000 deaths, trashing two countries, and a war that cost at least a trillion dollars, is like celebrating our own gullibility, corruption and stupidity. givebirthathome 3 days ago 3

Jup, theres definately﻿ something coming…won’t be joining large public events any time soon. Can’t make this shit up…

stabbed22 3 days ago

but even bhutto﻿ gave an interview and said that osama had been killed in 2007 and 3 months later they blew her brain obarelida 3 days ago

Wooh, he is right, i hadn’t noticed this before, but Kate and William﻿ actually married on the same day as Hitler and Eva Braun. LianesVideos 3 days ago

@LianesVideos Exactly 66 years later i would like to add. And i already was wondering why﻿ they would not rather marry in the summer…. LianesVideos 3 days ago

The Elites want people﻿ to know the truth ASAP. That mistakes are made with some reason. Something is going to happen! RisoBoss 3 days ago

it actually hurts your﻿ head to think about all this stuff MrLukedanger 3 days ago

PressTV is﻿ saying he was killed years ago by Omar Sheik youtube.com/watch?v=S3K783ivyY­8 MadXMax187 3 days ago

19 April – 1st May feast of﻿ the beast StaticStudzy 3 days ago

Wooh who we killed osama and all it took was 10 years, 7,000 soldiers﻿ lives, and billions upon billions of dollars of tax payer money. YA AMERICA!!! THEOWNEROFNOTHING345 3 days ago

Osama didn’t do anything to me or my family. So I don’t care this news but not happy about someone is dead. We﻿ need to be worry about gas and food prices. Let’s see who yall won’t dead now osama who we have no proof did 9/11 or the Government who is raising prices on gas and food that we need everyday. ZurkleEnt 3 days ago

bin laden was body bagged long before mossad and the cia pulled the towers! wake up america…﻿ peacelovingdude 3 days ago

Even if he was alive; why didn’t they put him on trial and provide evidence to convict him of 911? Sadam Hussein was tried and convicted. Oh, right! Because Bin Laden will probably expose them and deny his involvement as he’s done in the past regarding 911. The secrecy never stops! This is no longer the free and open society that JFK﻿ spoke of. jabe55 3 days ago

We should probably be preparing now for the﻿ “supposed terrorist attacks” coming our way because we just “killed” Bin Laden.

I’m just tired of so much BS!! gowdaflow 3 days ago 21

@gowdaflow they can bring it on……..should we be cowards﻿ and not go after bin laden in case it pisses muslims off? last time i checked, they’re already pissed off major league thorkyll 3 days ago

“You are Alex Jones….We are﻿ going to F’ing get you.”

Lionel Chetwynd TheValkyrie700 3 days ago

why﻿ are all of Alex’s views always stuck at 303, this is like the 10th video ive seen like that, they let him get likes and dislikes but no views, they are scared he will always stay on their top viewed page lol ahobson821 3 days ago 2

@ahobson821 the videos are frozen at around 300 to keep﻿ from bots jacking up the view counts (that’s Youtube’s story anyways)… check back in like 5 hours… if view count is still at this number, something fishy is going on MUSLIMSareCHOMOS 3 days ago

@ahobson821 great point! i been﻿ wonderin the same FraisC 3 days ago

I tired from the BS they feed us on the media. I’m tired of the control and manipulations and all the idiotic gossip, the toxic food and the lies.. I’m﻿ tired of changing my channel and seeing Jersey Shore on TV. F*****K!!!!

I’m just freakin’ mad as hell!! gowdaflow 3 days ago

LMFAO…….so ummmmm where’s the body……ohhhh, we﻿ threw it into the ocean…….why?……to respect islamic law……LMFAO!!! Radman916 3 days ago This has been flagged as spam show FreeLionRicky 3 days ago

How are they gonna get out of this hole ?﻿ Keep digging Obama ! 44connected 3 days ago

@44connected BUT﻿ PEOPLE ARE BUYING IT!!!! OR IGNORING WANTING TO BE SHEEEEP FreeLionRicky 3 days ago

@FreeLionRicky for now yes﻿ 44connected 3 days ago

I really appreciate Alex covering this so well. I was so sick at heart when this story first came out. Obama spewing so many lies.﻿ People around the world so stupid to buy this garbage.

Thank you Alex. Good Job. Whorulesnow 3 days ago 3

@Whorulesnow I feel the same way….Thank you Mr. Jones—>>keep﻿ up the good work in exposing the TRUTH!! wyzewrdz 3 days ago

303 views﻿ 399 likes….. kirsty34 3 days ago

@kirsty34 worse with obama, it was 303 and 4500﻿ likes… FreeLionRicky 3 days ago

this will﻿ rally the terror groups hear comes the SH%T right into the fan pvtcpt 3 days ago

How is possible to have 303 views and 397﻿ likes? RisoBoss 3 days ago

Why does the world call him ‘Osama’ when infact his actual name is ‘Usama’?

Could it be as simple as, they don’t want any﻿ negativity arising from ‘USAma’? chekchamon 3 days ago

wow 302 out of the﻿ 303 people that watched this video commented. Better join the band wagon. ICT117 3 days ago

Fuck﻿ Obama, why can’t you just tell me the truth you faggot. rspkk0 3 days ago This comment has received too many negative votes show salmer666 3 days ago

@salmer666 1st of all fuck you…2nd I am a U.S Marine and I﻿ am anti-Obama, there is no freedom from fear here…3rdwatch how many terrorist retaliations there will be Al Queda is still strong and at large….Hes done NOTHING….Last I checked hes in the white house not overseas fighting so get your head out of the mainstream medias ass grandhustle11 3 days ago 24

10.31 not sure﻿ I want to but go on… 099749 3 days ago

@salmer666 The idea that we should be grateful to Obama simply for being in office, while other people did their jobs, and “apologize” to Obama for being free people, and exercising our right to freedom of speech, is unbelievable. You badly need to get over the hero worship and start learning to think and how to free yourself from the “shackles of fear”. As for protecting…does﻿ this killing protect the people of the Gulf from BP, or our Constitution FROM Obama? givebirthathome 3 days ago

@salmer666 not likely gonna happen. As all this info was supposedly garnished by all the means obama criticized 1. info from prisoner at gitmo 2. recd itel thru waterboarding 3. most of the info was developped by last administration. the CIA and military did their jobs all obama did was﻿ sign off on it. i wonder how he feels signing death warrant of a fellow muslim? good job obama you know how to write your name, yes you can go back to important matters like developing your 3pt basketball shot. REFIGUY69 3 days ago

China is proposing dumping two-thirds﻿ of US Treasuries!! MrGer64 3 days ago

@MrGer64 making way for mor﻿ dollar bashing. almost time to bring out the amero REFIGUY69 3 days ago

@MrGer64 making way﻿ for mor dollar bashing. almost time to bring out the amero REFIGUY69 3 days ago

Benazir Bhutto: Bin Laden was Murdered

JUST WATCH﻿ AND BE SHOCKED…THEN LOOK AT THE BBC VERSION…..THEY EDITED OUT THE COMMENT happybdayo 3 days ago

And all those poor idiots that think he’s a messiah. MultiUniv3rsal 3 days ago

@MultiUniv3rsal well i can’t speak fmor anyone else but “I” dont think he’s a messiah……he is jus a regular human being like you and me who is smart enough to know the corrupt game of our government!!! and he CARES ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ENOUGH TO SHARE HIS FINDINGS WITH US!!!!!!! I AM GRATEFUL FOR MR. JONES AND I TAKE HEED TO WHAT HE SAYS (AS﻿ I CONDUCT MY OWN RESEARCH) wyzewrdz 3 days ago

@wyzewrdz I do my own research too. Jones is a﻿ great source of info but we don’t have to accept his conclusions. Smarterthanyouarable 3 days ago

Right around the anniversary of Hitler’s death announcement? This event has “perception management/mind control” written all over it. It’s an old trick – time a current event (OBL) to coincide with a historical event that holds great feelings for large numbers of people﻿ (Hitler’s death). The result? A subtle linkage between the two that sensitizes present-day activities to the positive feelings of the past. Sounds like “Tavistock” themed, “persuasion engineering” to me. TagManpants 3 days ago

kevinstuartfr0st 3 days ago This has been flagged as spam show fredy26lima2007 3 days ago

Osama have come﻿ back from the past. MegaKeikoku 3 days ago

Yeah, i thought it was REALLY shady. It’s like “Hey guys, just FYI,﻿ osama’s dead and don’t worry we already took care of the body it’s at the bottom of the ocean! Questions? NO? OK! well time to talk about how awesome of a president i am for doing this” psychoclown420 3 days ago 36

@psychoclown420 Exactly. Osama was part of 90% of the worlds opium supply. That’s BILLIONS of dollars in pharmaceutical industry, and in illegal drugs. Does anything honestly think these greedy scumbags would leave that money sitting around? Definitely not.

Secondly, the osama death is just something﻿ they can show the public what they are doing is worth time and money, this is a fake accomplishment to show they are not wasting, and actually doing something. It’s two fold. kkev1n 3 days ago

if you dont mind ill be uploadin this on my u tube channel , just let me know if u want﻿ me to delete this video thts on my account MrCheekymonkey1996 3 days ago

they haven’t released the photos yet! So﻿ how the F are the pictures fake! gil050489 3 days ago

@gil050489 The US﻿ Gov has not released photos yet, these are photos released by media sources. cooljj82 3 days ago

@cooljj82 where did the media get them from ? don’t say﻿ the internet, only a fool would believe that 44connected 3 days ago

I wonder if…Alex Jones: “folks, we got the﻿ sources”…means what Vatican Assassins says is Alex’s connection to the Jesuits…..hey, im just sayin…if …”perception is reality”….is the theme today…then why not question Mr. Jones and his “sources”….don’t the Jesuits follow Druid law too? Im just sayin….choosing to believe AJ as absolute Truth is…well….hypocrisy on your part if you do….again, im just sayin, playin a lil Devil’s Advocate if you will…. DodgyDrifter7 3 days ago

Stinks to high heaven, even god﻿ is mad. daviddalbylive 3 days ago

Gadaffi will be blamed for the next terrorist attack. Be informed﻿ and prepared. lorenzo8500 3 days ago

@lorenzo8500 maybe but thats getting old blaming towelheaded-﻿ sheet wearing-camel-fucking folks (afterall it does get cold at nite in the desert).imo their gonna quickly jump to some good ol boys here in usa that are “plotting” vs the govt as food and gas oil prices go up to the stratosphere. lookout bubba’s your next!!!

REFIGUY69 3 days ago

They shouldn’t have buried him at sea. They should have cremated him, and sprinkled his ashes in all the﻿ toilets and urinals of every fire and police department in New York! Go America!

Seriously though, there is something big coming and this is the gateway through which it comes.

SaintPatrick33 3 days ago

@SaintPatrick33 Osama isnt dead… i just bought﻿ a kebab from him from a restaurant in bologna mrmishonka 3 days ago

people are﻿ saying that the government did not release any pictures of him dead and that the one we have all seen was created by conspiracy theorists to create a stir.

anyone know any news sources like CNN or whoever that showed the picture as released by the government? cannyx 3 days ago

Search bin laden Benazir Bhutto: Bin Laden was Murdered﻿ she talked of his assassination openly and the lizard FROST didn’t even pull her up and say WHAT happybdayo 3 days ago

Watch from 4:10 to 4:40, he starts then stops mid-sentence, stares off and then restarts. No way that’s normal behavior, Alex Jones is an﻿ controlled machine, not human 1594615 3 days ago

@1594615 he is a businessman,﻿ analysing his situation to maximise his profits…lol goonerash 3 days ago

right at time when Obama was severely slumping in the polls in his bid for the 2012 Presidency . It happens in the same week he released his phony Long-form B.C. Since when does America care about following strict Islamic law pertaining to burial prep?

These two events are psyops to﻿ get Obama reelected. It will never happen because they don’t have psyops for the declining U.S. dollar, the national debt and the rising prices of commodities TheValkyrie700 3 days ago

Buried at Sea !!!! LolOOooLLLoLlLLOlLLLll Haa aAA HAAAAAAA……..What are they﻿ kidding???? hE’S BEEN DEA SINCE 2001.Wake uP aMERIKA!!! iT WAS IN THE FOREIGN PaPERS..

That’s Lionel Chetwynd if you﻿ want to look him up omarsalem91 3 days ago

Whats﻿ the best way to deny someone proof? Say you dropped it in the ocean!

lesshultz 3 days ago

Amazing that our gov’t can do a DNA test in a matter of HOURS that takes most labs DAYS to compile and verify. ﻿ jmccuen 3 days ago

Did﻿ he died? ParasiteSteve 3 days ago

@ParasiteSteve

A﻿ long time ago! dragnet53 3 days ago

@ParasiteSteve no﻿ it’s a a hoax to get the people minds of the high gas prices. that’s one motive TheStrawbeery 3 days ago

What did we learn from “Leon – The Professional” ?

If you want someone to be identified,﻿ NEVER shoot into the head!

When US government talks about a DNA proof, remember the proven weapons of mass destruction in Iraq….

TheMullerClan 3 days ago

So many inspirational things happening right now. The birther movement having to eat cake, the magnificent royal wedding & now Bin﻿ Laden gets his come uppance. It just gets me so pumped. nosherz 3 days ago

I refuse to be part of the those people that are celebrating in the streets everywhere. It’s fucking insane that people will buy anything that obama says and promises to people even tho he broke most of those promises and continues to lie to everyone!

Its sad when people are brainwashed to the point they can’t think for themselves for one minute and say that the president is a traitor﻿ when they call him the messiah. schwartsbruder 3 days ago 44

@schwartsbruder you﻿ and me both brotha. K20civicsirturbo 3 days ago

I’m from saudi, and I’m happy for the death of Osama, he was﻿ a really devil

:) totab3 3 days ago

I knew this was coming. Of course Alex would think it’s a hoax. I’m sure the sun rising in the east is hoax. The blue sky is a hoax, 4 tires on a automobile are a hoax

The only hoax is Jones spinning his lies and propaganda in order to fill his pockets with﻿ cold hard cash and he’s laughing all the way to the bank rudemood2011 3 days ago