steelfury, I keep explaining it - the Steelers don't want to be an offensive team, they want to remain a defensive team.

The reason the Steelers were successful against the Patriots in 2011 wasn't just about TOP, it was because they attacked a weakness. In the 2010 game against the Patriots, the Steelers did not attack a weakness, they played Marty ball - which resulted in Ben having to throw for close to 400 yards to make the game look closer than it was.

This season, the Steelers played close to the vest football. They wanted to keep the games close. They handcuffed Ben for the majority of the game, leaving the game up for grabs in the end. It was either Ben pulls a miracle out of his ass or the Steelers were screwed. Now, do the Patriots handcuff Brady? Do the Broncos handcuff Manning? Are those two teams constantly fretting over time of possession? Do those teams play Marty ball, or do they attack?

See, you want it both ways. You want Ben to be reduced to a game manager for the first 58 minutes of a game, and you want the Steelers to be a ball-control team. When that doesn't work, you want Ben to bail the Steelers out from their own stupidity every time. Doesn't work like that. Don't bitch about the lack of scoring output when you want the team to play in a shell.

Want more from Ben? Let him try to win the game early. Stop with the predictable play calling (run, run, pass) and stop fretting over time of possession.

I think TOP is coming from Tomlin not from Haley. Haley doesn't strike me as a TOP guy. I do not agree that Haley is handcuffing Ben. Handcuffing is too strong a word first of all and secondly it isn't about Ben.

HALEY IS CALLING THE PLAYS HE THINKS WILL HELP THE STEELERS WIN!

It is not about Ben. It is about what is best for the team. The TOP thing has to be coming from Tomlin because he won't shut up about it.

Haley "handcuffing" Ben in the later games was because he takes something into account Arians did not... the weather.

Ben had 5 years under Arians to prove he could turn the Steelers into a high-scoring offense-first team and he didn't do it. it is over. Deal with it.

Tomlin is the guy who thinks Suisham can make 50+ yard kicks too. So that is on him.

Playing Leftwich with a broken rib is on Tomlin. Batch might not have won the first Ravens game but at least he had a shot.

I would put this season on Tomlin first, ST second, Roethlisberger third.

I will agree that "handcuffing" is likely not the best term to use. I do think that Haley did no one any favors Ben or otherwise by constantly putting us in 2nd , 3rd and long (hell what is long anymore, we couldn't pick up one and two yard short yardage plays in those situations), We could not run on first down and we could not run on obvious run downs. Thing is this has not just been the case this year, this has been going on for some time, at least 3 years or more. Red Zone issues last year were as much because of this as anything Arians or Ben did. I think it will not return to Arians type play calling, but I bet the farm it will not be the same as this year, not if Haley, Tomlin, and Rooney are as smart as I think they are.

I will agree that "handcuffing" is likely not the best term to use. I do think that Haley did no one any favors Ben or otherwise by constantly putting us in 2nd , 3rd and long (hell what is long anymore, we couldn't pick up one and two yard short yardage plays in those situations), We could not run on first down and we could not run on obvious run downs. Thing is this has not just been the case this year, this has been going on for some time, at least 3 years or more. Red Zone issues last year were as much because of this as anything Arians or Ben did. I think it will not return to Arians type play calling, but I bet the farm it will not be the same as this year, not if Haley, Tomlin, and Rooney are as smart as I think they are.

The purpose behind that type of play calling (run, run, pass or run, bubble screen, pass) was to possess the ball. If they want to continue the ball control game, don't expect much change. However, if the emphasis switches to scoring points and not worrying about babysitting the defense, then maybe that will be the case.

They have to stop trying to be like the old Steelers or worrying about who could get hurt and take over games.

Terry just comes off bitter these days! He wouldn't partake in the Immaculate Reception biopic on NFL Network???! What's that about??? Either way, Ben is going to go down as the better QB and hopefully with more rings!!!!

Terry just comes off bitter these days! He wouldn't partake in the Immaculate Reception biopic on NFL Network???! What's that about??? Either way, Ben is going to go down as the better QB and hopefully with more rings!!!!

Ben's not even legitimately in that conversation. There is no question that Bradshaw was at a whole different level than Ben. If Bradshaw had not made the HOF it would have been a gross injustice. There are better QBs playing this week, (some not until next week), than Ben who may not make the HOF.

The purpose behind that type of play calling (run, run, pass or run, bubble screen, pass) was to possess the ball. If they want to continue the ball control game, don't expect much change. However, if the emphasis switches to scoring points and not worrying about babysitting the defense, then maybe that will be the case.

They have to stop trying to be like the old Steelers or worrying about who could get hurt and take over games.

Sandlot style doesn't equate to scoring more points. There's a reason why the highest scoring offenses don't rely on it. They don't give Ben the keys because he isn't capable. He's already lost enough in key situations as much as he's won. I love Ben, I'm happy for what he did - but he won't do more until he buys into something a little bigger than his wonderful skill set that doesn't cut it for an aging QB. The end.

__________________MacReady: Beaver pics - don't think we're in much shape to do anything about this threadChilds: Well, what do we do?MacReady: Why don't we just . . .wait here and post for a little while longer . . . see what happens?

Sandlot style doesn't equate to scoring more points. There's a reason why the highest scoring offenses don't rely on it. They don't give Ben the keys because he isn't capable. He's already lost enough in key situations as much as he's won. I love Ben, I'm happy for what he did - but he won't do more until he buys into something a little bigger than his wonderful skill set that doesn't cut it for an aging QB. The end.

Sorry, but that's just made up.

"Sandlot style" gives the Steelers a better chance than run, run, pass. The Steelers have had to rely on that style because they stubbornly stuck to Marty ball for most games, then needed Ben to bail them out in the end.

"Sandlot style" gives the Steelers a better chance than run, run, pass. The Steelers have had to rely on that style because they stubbornly stuck to Marty ball for most games, then needed Ben to bail them out in the end.

Made up? So is your marty ball theory. See - I can do it too

__________________MacReady: Beaver pics - don't think we're in much shape to do anything about this threadChilds: Well, what do we do?MacReady: Why don't we just . . .wait here and post for a little while longer . . . see what happens?

Well I can't argue that. Marty ball is run, run, pass. Sometimes the Steelers are run, bubble screen, pass. So I guess I twisted the definition of Marty ball a bit.

you did. it's ok

we just disgree, and that's coo - I just think that the TOP offense was an improvement over what Barians wanted to do, and it looked to me that it was shaping up nicely until the injury. Just my two cents.

__________________MacReady: Beaver pics - don't think we're in much shape to do anything about this threadChilds: Well, what do we do?MacReady: Why don't we just . . .wait here and post for a little while longer . . . see what happens?