NBA basketball has surpassed (IMO) international soccer in the "gamesmanship" category. All of the whining and flopping has gotten beyond ridiculous. They need to start dishing out heavy punishments for that nonsense if they want to get rid of it.

Well that is a bit over the top. Football (that is what soccer is called internationally) can still give the NBA a masterclass in diving and whining. I actually watch NBA because I can't stand the diving and whining in football anymore.

LeBron will now be 2-3 in his 5 finals appearances. Jordan? 5-0 in his first 5...

Can we stop the comparisons now?

That is just about the silliest statement and shows that most people on here are simply just haters and not truly looking at the big picture. How many titles did MJ win before Phil showed up..................I'm still waiting.......oh that's right the Pistons and the Celtics were dump trucking them and they never made it to the finals. MJ has NEVER won a title when he was on an inferior team. Jordan scored a lot of points but didn't have anything to show for it until Phil showed up and put it all together.

Bill Russell is 11-1 in the finals but I guess Jordan is still better because Russell lost in the finals one time? See how silly that sounds. I bet you can't even name 5 players on the Cleveland team that LeBron lead to the finals and I'll spot you three ( LBJ, Mo Williams, Ilgauskis). What if LBJ goes 7-3 in the finals in his career and ends up with more titles than Jordan....I can just hear it now....oh it doesn't matter how many titles he won because he lost 3 times.

I'm not even a Heat fan but the hatred for this dude is ridiculous. Especially in a golf forum where everyone wants to diss Tiger for cheating on his wife and turn around and celebrate the guy who Tiger ran with. That seems pretty hypocritical to me because anyone watching LBJ play can't deny he is the best player and his off court like looks like a choir boy compared to Jordan's vices.

Tell me you guys are kidding about Russell being the greatest.... Isn't this similar to our golf debate about whether Jack's 18 is more impressive than Tiger's 14? Most of us agreed that due to advances and deeper fields and better athletes as a whole, Tiger's is more impressive. Wouldn't the same logic apply to state that Jordan was by far a much more well-rounded player and a better athlete that could most likely dominate in any era that he would be inserted into? I don't think Russell would be that dominant in today's game, I'm sorry. Historically, as the league changed and lane sizes and rules were changed, his PPG dropped dramatically and he became less and less dominant as a whole.

Russell was a defensive monster but there were fewer teams, fewer playoff rounds, fewer "great" competitors and even byes that let Russell advance past the first round of the playoffs like 4-5 times. I'm not diminishing the "awe" of his championships, but there are some things to consider.

No doubt he's one of the all-time greats obviously and I'm not trying to minimize his legend, but he's definitely not the greatest of all time. That team was also stacked with legends and it's not like he did all of the work alone. What he was on defense was amazing, what he was on offense was nothing amazing. Good, for sure, but not exceptional.

I thought mostly everybody on here agreed that rings/championships do not dictate who the greatest athletes are?

In closing and in order to stay somewhat on topic, I hope the Heat lose. There!

On one hand people are arguing that in golf Majors are the only criteria for GOAT, not total wins or driving accuracy or putting or scoring average or GIR or any other individual stat. Then on the other hand they say, MJ is the GOAT even though he didn't score the most points all time or have the most rebounds or win the most NBA Championships or actually hold the record in any NBA individual stat except points per game. Points per game is not enough for me.

For me, it is the most Championships in the NBA. Jordan scored over 60 points in a playoff game once, and lost to the Celtics. Today's NBA is far more diluted with too many teams and players who would not have made the NBA back then. IMO, which is set up with my criteria, Russell is the greatest overall player because he did nothing but win. Jordan was great, but did not quite win as much.

Russell isn't even the best center ever. Golf is an individual sport basketball is a team sport so you can't compare the 2. Besides im not one who thinks majors are the criteria for best golfer Tiger is the GOAT IMO so is MHM.

How many titles did Phil win without the GOAT, Shaq in his prime, or Kobe in his prime?

Zero as a coach in the NBA.....He did coach the Albany Patroons of the CBA to a championship though. He started coaching the Bulls in 1989 or 5 years after Jordan had been in the league and two years later had them running off 6 titles in 7 years.