Y'know one thing I remember back in middle and high school in the mid to late 80s was how D&D was that devil-worshiping game that taught you real magic and drove you to suicide. I was lucky that my parents main concern with D&D was that I not waste too much time with it that my grades would suffer. I find it amusing that in the various D&D groups I've been in a decent percentage of the players have been fairly devout followers of a "traditional" religion. (Of course I'm a Catholic so most of the anti-D&D crowd of the 80s already had me pegged as going to hell for that...)

Good grief yes, if you want to cite a pre-Christian example of a god that was slain and rose from from the dead, to become a merciful judge and intercessor for men in the afterlife, you could do much worse than Osiris.

Perhaps because he came here to read about the "thing" we all share, and found something quite different. I suppose proselytizing has its place, but I'd agree with Joseph (if that was his "point") that this isn't it. Some of us who are atheists (like myself, won't speak for all) probably found it distasteful, Jews might feel a little uncomfortable with it or be peeved that there was no Passover mention, non-Catholics ditto, etc. Obviously just my usual trollish 2 cents, but I think religious messages are inappropriate here.

This is funny for me to see this discussion on Osiris / Mithra / Christ here. My dear wife is doing her PhD Thesis on Dupuis, the philosopher who first etablished this theory in 18th century. Currently, she studies in the Vatican's 'secrets' archives about how Catholic authors reacted to his views. Joyeuses Paques à tous et à toutes!

I've made "proselytizing" posts before, at Christmas and on All Souls Day, so this isn't exactly out of character for this blog, nor for me. I'm not sure why the occasional mention of my religious beliefs -- ones broadly shared by both creators of D&D, I might add -- is seen as "distasteful" and "inappropriate." I don't compartmentalize my life and I make no more apology for my faith than I do for disliking the WotC editions of D&D or the Thief class. If anyone sees that as beyond the pale, I'm sorry they feel that way, but it's not going to change.

Given that I have never once criticized a fellow blogger or commenter for their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) or used my posts as a platform for preaching, I'll admit to some bafflement at how anyone could be offended. But I learned long ago that some people seek out offense and nothing I can do will change that. So I'm not going to try.

As a follower of another religion, I can see how some folks might be a little taken aback, and find this kind of post to be out of context within this particular blog.

That said, the original post is in Latin, so if you don’t read Latin, it’s hardly going to constitute proselytism. If you do read Latin, you’ve probably seen a lot of religious materials in it, and this will either be of little note, or hopefully appreciated for its poetry. Further, even though I can’t read the prayer, the general content seems obvious, so if I were uncomfortable with the prospect of reading a religious love-in (no offense) I could easily just not click the comments.

Seems no biggie. Hope you had a happy holy day.

-A ‘Virtuous Pagan’ ;)

Word verification: 'Volor'- a variety of valor found in burrowing mammals.

I guess "proselytizing" was a bad choice of words. I was not particularly offended, just a little dismayed that James was wearing his religiosity on his sleeve in a blog that ostensibly has nothing to do with religion. Some of us feel a bit ostracized on days like Easter in countries where Christianity is the majority faith. I know that for me growing up, gaming was one of my few havens away from having religion crammed down my throat. Sorry if my comment was an overreaction.

Anyone can put in his blog own whatever he wants. No one else has the right to say what's proper or what is not. I think that is a basic freedom. What is very innapropiate is to post a kinda mocking comment in a place where people are sharing their religious celebration. And demand it to stop worser still. Please respect the religiuos freedom of the blogger and it's commentators. I think their attitude was very modest and where not heading for a converting crusade.

I suppose, but on the other hand, since Catholicism teaches that those of us who do not believe are destined to eternal torment in Hell, on some level the original post could be construed as inherently hostile. I don't think anyone demanded that it stop.

In truth, the Church does not teach that anyone is destined for hell, as only willful mortal sin, persistent till the end of one's life is the cause of a soul's descent into it. It's true that unbelief doesn't help one's chances, but, ultimately, the salvation of even believers depends on the mercy of God, so it's not as if anyone is in a position to be smug about the matter.

James is not offering here some kind of public service. He is writing a blog as an individual person, musing about old-school for free, primarily for his own enjoyment. It's not that you bought a module made by him and suddenly in the last two pages you found Christian theology with no relation to the product whatsoever. You can't demand him to stick to a certain subject matter under any kind of ground with regards to the contents of a blog: a private, free of charge venue.

If you feel offended, move on, as James must find offense in many things he sees in the internet and people had the right to freely express.

Sometimes modern atheists seem to engage in the kind of persecution and censorship similar to the ones the so much criticize.

If you want to "construe" something in a way it offends you, that pastime can be better served in other sites with much more explicit content.

What you are doing here is virtual version of breaking into a peaceful religious celebration and attempt to disrupt it. You have been quite successful in fact.

Would you go inside a church, a sinagoge or a buddist temple and start mocking people because of the beliefs just for the fun of it? That is not only an act of intolerance but also sick enjoyment. If you want to make a point about atheism, which you are in all right to do, you have to do it in the proper venue and not disturb people during a peaceful celebration. That is true in the "physical" world as in the internet.

My faith is not "fragile" and I'm not afraid of Joseph's attacks. I am educated in philosophy, history, Latin and Greek. I have read numerous Pagan texts and I know the history of the early Christian Church and the Patristic writings. So I know his fabrications for what they are.

But a lot of people don't. They believe what they read on the internet (as inadvisable as that is) or see on some hack show on Discovery or History.

Joseph may have a right to express himself (though coming into a Christian celebration to do it is disrespectful and shows his lack of character), but I also have the right to call "BS" on his BS. And in fact I have the responsibility to do so, because if I don't then the cost of silence is that someone may be misled.

If Joseph insists on burning in Hell, I can't stop him. But I don't want him to make it any easier for anybody else to go with him.

Now I think I'll go back to celebrating the fact that the infinite God has chosen to show mercy through Jesus Christ to all of us unworthy sinners. Thanks to Him, mercy awaits us if we ask for it. That's the best thing that has ever happened.

Good lord, much ado about nothing. This is James' digital home as it were and we are all guests. If he wants to share his faith, and he does so in a most tasteful way, then we as his guests are richer for it. I am not a Christian, and am neither dismayed or offended. I rather see folks celebrate their faith, than hide in a closet. I can appreciate the sentiment. I know it is late, but a happy Easter to my Christian brothers and sisters.

How do you reconcile the gap between moral/Christian behavior and beliefs (in the real world) with the need of many hack-and-slash games to kill intelligent beings that are called "evil," but really may be more "different"?

As a card-carrying Catholic (and a philosopher before that), I've had a personal distaste for many years for many "old school" conventions of slaying, say, a village of goblins, just because they're evil. Is it considered to be just for "heroes" to slaughter them all? Is it right to never offer quarter to sapient foes, but rather barge into a dungeon room with swords drawn? etc.

Personally, I can really only enjoy hack-n-slash if there's either a strong moral compass for the heroes (requiring those who follow good to offer quarter, not taking lives needlessly, etc.), or if those the heroes act against are by definition irredeemably evil (demons, devils, undead, Cthulhu-esque horrors, etc.). But I admit I'm weird and don't judge other viewpoints... and it's not like I'm consistent in this view. (I don't like heroes killing orcs just because they believe they're evil, but I don't think a player of the Russian side in Axis & Allies is tacitly approving of Stalin's actions.)

That statement is easily as shitty and offensive as anything Joseph said. This is one of the principle reasons so many people take a dim view of christians, and it's precisely the attitude that drove me away from the church.

That's probably for the best though because not having to go to church on easter freed me up to play D&D all day yesterday. We nearly had a TPK, and it was awesome.

Eternity is a long time. If all the molecules in the material cosmos were years, that sum of years would only be the barest beginning of eternity.

I don't know what kind of misery people really suffer in Hell. I pray to God that I never find out. But the most basic commitments in the way that I live my life tell me that going into that misery is a possibility.

So if I think a person is in danger of going there, what kind of a stinking jerk would I have to be not to let them know? I mean, if my worst detractor were standing in the middle of the street and ranting about what a worthless sack of protoplasm that idiot Korgoth is, ranting so loud that he didn't hear the oncoming bus that was about to run him over, I'd warn him to get out of the way. Because, the hot rumblings of my viscera aside, I don't wish that on anybody.

God is pure Being, pure Holiness. We cannot enter into His presence unless we have been made pure. And the consequences of existing outside His presence would strike at the very depths of your existence. I understand that you may not think that this is the case. I do think it is the case. So I'd have to be one cold individual not to bother to let you know.

Can we have these discussions elsewhere? I don't mind spirited discussions if it's pertinent, but I think pertinence is now a distant image in the rear view mirror. With the exception of Steven Marsh's question, which I'll answer in a separate post, most of this is way beside the point.

My sole intention was to make a holiday-related post, since Easter is the high point of my personal calendar. If anyone's offended by that, such is life. I make so few "personal" posts out of the hundreds of others I make each year; it seems silly to get hung up over one. Goodness knows I'd not be bothered by anyone else doing the same on their blog.

So, unless someone else has anything substantive to add, let's just end the comments here.

By all means, James; I never expected my little joke to generate so much heat.

Korgoth and Santiago (and anyone else), I have another blog dedicated to religious matters. Perhaps it would be more seemly to continue the discussion there, if either of you are inclined: http://howlfromthenorth.blogspot.com

I'm always game for a good debate on such topics, but I will naturally respect James' wishes...

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