I haven't upgraded yet, but I understand that you will lose the default 'Maps' app that was built into the OS. However, you will be able to download a free Google Maps app which is much the same thing.

I'm not sure about 'defaults' - in what situations is a default mapping app triggered?

Currently there is no Google Maps app, and it remains an interesting question whether one will ever exist. You can still use a browser to access the Google maps web site, but that isn't quite the same thing.

There is a lot of speculation about the relationship between Apple and Google, and the manner in which Google restricted access to data, and how much money they were paid to license what data they did provide it Apple. In the end Google and Apple are direct competitors in this space, so it isn't exactly a surprise that there was a parting of the ways. It is this competition that makes it unclear whether there will ever be a Google Maps app for iOS.

Currently there is no Google Maps app, and it remains an interesting question whether one will ever exist. You can still use a browser to access the Google maps web site, but that isn't quite the same thing.

There is a lot of speculation about the relationship between Apple and Google, and the manner in which Google restricted access to data, and how much money they were paid to license what data they did provide it Apple. In the end Google and Apple are direct competitors in this space, so it isn't exactly a surprise that there was a parting of the ways. It is this competition that makes it unclear whether there will ever be a Google Maps app for iOS.

Apple could (and should) have waited until their maps were fully baked before forcing the switch. Expecting your customers to beta test a final release is absurd.

Apple could (and should) have waited until their maps were fully baked before forcing the switch. Expecting your customers to beta test a final release is absurd.

Should certainly, again there is some suggestion (about all however, we will probably never know) that the agreements between Apple and Google had reached their end date, and things might have been about to get a lot more complex. So "could" may have been a lot harder for Apple. Google had not updated the Maps App in ages, to the point it was way behind the version for Android, so Apple's patience was probably wearing thin. But there is little doubt that this has not been Apple's finest effort.

We had a discussion about it a few days ago over lunch, and it comes in two parts. The actual Apple app is way better than the Google one. But the data that feeds it is way worse. Loss of Streetview is the other thing, and Apple won't be able to replace that easily, the fake rendered 3D view is no replacement.

1) Apple and Google are both gigantic companies. Both have the resources to make something work if they wanted to. I don't think the desire was there, especially on the Apple side.

Likely true, or more a matter that they simply didn't realise how hard it was going to be. They had job ads out for half a dozen programmers to work on it early last week. As if the penny had finally dropped.

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2) The iOS Maps app prior to iOS 6 was an Apple app, using Google map data. Not Google's responsibility to update it.

I believe a big issue was Google's refusal to provide vector data to Apple. This halted Apples ability to meet the newer app's needs.

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and which is more important? I don't care how nice the app is if the data it uses tells me to walk off of a cliff (absurd example, I know, but my point stands.)

Very true. But the split is still true. Apple got the app right, and dropped the ball on the data. They get the cadastral data from TomTom, so it seems odd the app is getting things so wrong. It is clearly only a beta quality offering. No-one denies that. However how bad it is seems to depend a lot upon where you are.

I believe a big issue was Google's refusal to provide vector data to Apple. This halted Apples ability to meet the newer app's needs.

Shocking that when you publicly announce your intention to go thermonuclear on someone they aren't fully cooperative afterwards. Google has spent a fuckton of money building their map and streetview data, and if it's to be all out war between iOS and Android they'd be idiots not to leverage that data.

Currently there is no Google Maps app, and it remains an interesting question whether one will ever exist. You can still use a browser to access the Google maps web site, but that isn't quite the same thing.

As long as you have location services enabled, setting a home screen link to the Google Maps mobile browser version is almost as good (no Street View though). The problem, of course, is that other apps that formerly used Google Maps now use Apple Crap-o-Maps. E.g. Cyclemeter, a bike GPS speedometer/route tracker that I often use, which formerly showed my tracks overlaid on crisp aerial photography so I could see exactly where I went when offroad, now shows them overlaid on a huge pixellated mass of vaguely green nothingness.

1) Apple and Google are both gigantic companies. Both have the resources to make something work if they wanted to. I don't think the desire was there, especially on the Apple side.

You and I both have no idea if this is true. Their contract came to an end. I know Apple can be dicks but it seems more likely that Google decided not to renew since they are in the phone OS business now. Why would Google have any interest in even beginning to negotiate?

News is that Google submitted a maps ap to Apple yesterday and it is awaiting approval. It'll be interesting to see if that happens. I hope that Apple does approve it, improves their data and wins people over on its merits. As has been mentions, the data is on the server side so it won't require an OS upgrade to fix any issues.

I used the new map feature in my iPhone 5 last night. I think that the UI is modestly superior to the old one. The data is reportedly crap but it's not universally crap. It told me how to get to my destination perfectly. I suspect that you won't have a problem getting where you are going 99.9% of the time as opposed to 99.999% of the time with Google.

This is simply one of those things that Google has the upper hand on. Despite Android getting Jobs' panties all wadded up, it appears Apple had a decision to make. And depending on the real circumstances, the decision may have been a forced one.

Sucks for now, but we'll see how this all shakes out, and how soon Apple can close the HUUUGE gap on mapping the globe. I'm sure Apple never even intended on picking up that gauntlet.

Anyhow, if you're curious as to what Apple's Map app is going for, cruise around the San Francisco area in 3D/Flyover mode. The 3D buildings and such certainly seems to have been meticulously built by hand, with the sides of the buildings projection mapped on the geometry.

I just checked and my iPhone 4 says that an upgrade to iOS 6 will require an additional 2.5 GB of storage?! IOW am I going to lose 2.5GB of free memory for apps, music, videos etc.? Being that I only have the 16GB model, and I use it as my stereo so it always has 13+GB of music on it, I routinely only ever have maybe 1GB of free space (I have to play app roulette sometimes). Other than the map thing, which obviously makes me NOT want to upgrade, am I going to miss much of anything else sticking with iOS 5?

And a follow-up: If you up to iOS 6 is it permanent? Or can I always restore to an iOS 5 backup?

I just checked and my iPhone 4 says that an upgrade to iOS 6 will require an additional 2.5 GB of storage?! IOW am I going to lose 2.5GB of free memory for apps, music, videos etc.? Being that I only have the 16GB model, and I use it as my stereo so it always has 13+GB of music on it, I routinely only ever have maybe 1GB of free space (I have to play app roulette sometimes). Other than the map thing, which obviously makes me NOT want to upgrade, am I going to miss much of anything else sticking with iOS 5?

And a follow-up: If you up to iOS 6 is it permanent? Or can I always restore to an iOS 5 backup?

Well, the obvious thing to do wold be to de-sync your music library, run the update and sync again. Over USB that should take approximately no time at all, and if you use iTunes in the Cloud, it'll take a while to reload the music, but I'd just let it run overnight on wifi.

I think the upgrade is worthy, there's at least a dozen small things I'd hate to give up. Sure, the maps need some help, but the turn by turn is very nice if you're in an area with ok data. Around me seems to be fine.

You can downgrade, but you have to take some fuzzy steps with third party tools to save your 'blobs' BEFORE you upgrade otherwise it will block you from the downgrade.

I just checked and my iPhone 4 says that an upgrade to iOS 6 will require an additional 2.5 GB of storage?! IOW am I going to lose 2.5GB of free memory for apps, music, videos etc.? Being that I only have the 16GB model, and I use it as my stereo so it always has 13+GB of music on it, I routinely only ever have maybe 1GB of free space (I have to play app roulette sometimes). Other than the map thing, which obviously makes me NOT want to upgrade, am I going to miss much of anything else sticking with iOS 5?

And a follow-up: If you up to iOS 6 is it permanent? Or can I always restore to an iOS 5 backup?

No you won't lose storage space (well maybe a little bit, I'm not sure how the size of iOS 6 compares to 5). It only needs that 2.5GB to swap all the stuff around when installing, then you get it back once completed. So just delete some music, update and then resync.

As for going back to iOS 5, I think this is available for a limited time only?

I just checked and my iPhone 4 says that an upgrade to iOS 6 will require an additional 2.5 GB of storage?! IOW am I going to lose 2.5GB of free memory for apps, music, videos etc.? Being that I only have the 16GB model, and I use it as my stereo so it always has 13+GB of music on it, I routinely only ever have maybe 1GB of free space (I have to play app roulette sometimes). Other than the map thing, which obviously makes me NOT want to upgrade, am I going to miss much of anything else sticking with iOS 5?

And a follow-up: If you up to iOS 6 is it permanent? Or can I always restore to an iOS 5 backup?

Huh - I had much less storage space free than that, and I had no problems upgrading without clearing space.

Sorry about the 'google maps app' remark - I was thinking of youtube. Very sorry about that.

Well, the obvious thing to do wold be to de-sync your music library, run the update and sync again. Over USB that should take approximately no time at all, and if you use iTunes in the Cloud, it'll take a while to reload the music, but I'd just let it run overnight on wifi.

Actually, when I first got it and was still figuring out how iTunes sync worked I did have to resync my whole song library a few times, and over USB 13+GB of music takes hours to load (over six to be precise!)

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Originally Posted by Colophon

No you won't lose storage space (well maybe a little bit, I'm not sure how the size of iOS 6 compares to 5). It only needs that 2.5GB to swap all the stuff around when installing, then you get it back once completed. So just delete some music, update and then resync.

As for going back to iOS 5, I think this is available for a limited time only?

Oh, ok. I thought it casually telling me that my 16GB iPhone was now going to be a 13.5GB one was a bit much. I still think I'll wait a bit, just to see others' experiences with iOS 6 on an iPhone 4. And I don't really care too much about Google maps or turn by turn, I still use a dedicated GPS device when I need to, it's just easier. But my phone is my car stereo so I'm more concerned with that. Did iOS 6 make any significant changes to its built-in iPod functionality?

I haven't found any problems with iOS6 on my iPhone 4, other than the maps. The Music app has slightly new UI graphics and looks nicer IMO. It does change the way iTunes Match works, if you use that (less obvious what's stored on the phone and what's in the cloud).

Actually, when I first got it and was still figuring out how iTunes sync worked I did have to resync my whole song library a few times, and over USB 13+GB of music takes hours to load (over six to be precise!)

Oh, ok. I thought it casually telling me that my 16GB iPhone was now going to be a 13.5GB one was a bit much. I still think I'll wait a bit, just to see others' experiences with iOS 6 on an iPhone 4. And I don't really care too much about Google maps or turn by turn, I still use a dedicated GPS device when I need to, it's just easier. But my phone is my car stereo so I'm more concerned with that. Did iOS 6 make any significant changes to its built-in iPod functionality?

iPod: Not really. Looks and behaves pretty much the same as far as I can tell.

Also, finally the ability to go fullscreen in Safari in landscape mode (not sure why it's not there for portrait??), and the Passbook should prove useful for plane boarding passes, movie tickets, coupons, etc.

From what I'm reading here and what I have seen on youtube I see no compelling reason to upgrade. The iPhone 4 does not have Siri or turn by turn directions, the map program seem like a downgrade with loss of street views, which I do occasionally find very useful, and just offers a slightly different 'skin' on some apps, which is nice but not valuable in itself. The do not disturb feature doesn't do anything for me either, though is a good idea to have.

So unless something better comes along or iOS5 loses functionality I think I will just stick with that.