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Don't know why exactly if you watch him, thinking about all the inevitable moves on offense that are coming in the offseason, what he's already shown on field despite probably the least talented offense in the NFL outside of Allen, an upcoming 2nd year in the same offensive system under Dabol, and the fact that over the last 2 years there have been 3 2nd year QBs who have themselves turned into legit NFL MVP candidates after rookie struggles or absences altogether.

But suit yourself, you've made it known you think Allen is a multi-year project.

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Don't know why exactly if you watch him, thinking about all the inevitable moves on offense that are coming in the offseason, what he's already shown on field despite probably the least talented offense in the NFL outside of Allen, an upcoming 2nd year in the same offensive system under Dabol, and the fact that over the last 2 years there have been 3 2nd year QBs who have themselves turned into legit NFL MVP candidates after rookie struggles or absences altogether.

But suit yourself, you've made it known you think Allen is a multi-year project.

I think most, at this point, can see that's not the case.

I've watched.

You're just guessing that he's going to double his production from year 1 to year 2.

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You're just guessing that he's going to double his production from year 1 to year 2.

That seems fairly far fetched.

Only because you're clinging to your "he's a raw, multi-year project at QB" narrative, rather than what he really is, which is a pretty typical top 10 rookie QB.

He's had some similar struggles to any other top 10 rookie QB over the years and, in some cases, much more success.

And with probably the least amount of talent in the NFL on offense--and even you have acknowledged that fact, multiple times.

Do you think Beane and McDermott are planning on being frugal this offseason and not spending that $90 million we have freed?

Pretty sure each team is required to spend their CAP money.

Do you think Beane and McDermott are planning on putting that money anywhere but offense?

That seems unlikely considering how dominant our Defense has been this year and they seem to criticize our WRs and OL when it comes to Allen's "struggles" this season as often--if not more--than pinning it directly on Josh.

Do you think Dabol will be gone and so Allen will somehow struggle because he's in a new system?

Seems incredibly unlikely Dabol isn't here, so Allen will have a full offseason in the same system to gain chemistry with his WRs and OL, something he didn't have the opportunity to do this past Summer as he stupidly was forced to share #1 reps with Peterman and McCarron for the entirety of the Summer.

Do you just think he's somehow massively inferior to Jared Goff, Carson Wentz and Patrick Mahomes as far as prospects from college to rookie season?

If you're clinging to stats alone, I guess you can make that argument. But if you're watching Allen play and saw Goff and Wentz play their rookie seasons, I think it's pretty clear the way those guys looked in their rookie years is similar to how Allen looks, though Allen's obviously added the superior aspect of the running threat in there.

Goff and Wentz had stats that generally resembled Allen this year but with better supporting casts on offense, especially Wentz.

Massive bumps in their 2nd years.

Hell, even Trubisky has taken a pretty massive jump in year 2. No, not NFL MVP conversation type jump, but still significant. And I guess this is just my opinion, but Trubisky is inferior talent-wise to Allen.

With multiple examples of pretty big 2nd year bumps, I don't know why the idea is so far-fetched to you, other than just needing to cling to a certain narrative that's being largely debunked as the season progresses.

1 hour ago, Hebert19 said:

Hes got potential to be in the conversation if we get weapons around him. Not because he will light up the world with stats but because of what he will do in order for us to get wins.

Yep, and I think this is going to be a pretty massive offseason in terms of offensive acquisitions.

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Do you think Beane and McDermott are planning on being frugal this offseason and not spending that $90 million we have freed?

Pretty sure each team is required to spend their CAP money.

Do you think Beane and McDermott are planning on putting that money anywhere but offense?

﻿

That seems unlikely considering how dominant our Defense has been this year and they seem to criticize our WRs and OL when it comes to Allen's "struggles" this season as often--if not more--than pinning it directly on Josh.

good questions here:

As for spending to the cap, it is not a requirement. McBeane has tried to keep $4-8mm around at start of camp for late reinforcements in their first two years. As for amount that must be spent:

The NFL's collective bargaining agreement allows teams to carry over unused cap space from one year to the next. It also establishes a spending floor. Every four years, teams must spend at least 89 percent of their cap space in cash to avoid a CBA violation.

IMHO OBD will not spend all the $$ on offense as Bills have real needs at Edge/DE pass rusher, DT and CB. DE/Edge and CB are expensive FAs so could see some taken in the draft in RDs 1 through 4. WR, LT couild be picks in early rounds as well as can be expensive in FA. I really see C, OG, SAM LB, RT and RB possibly coming via FA.

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I will predict that next year Josh Allen will be a high 50's completion percentage passer with nearly 8 yards per pass attempt, with around 235 yards passing per game, 28 TD's and 15 int's. With around 550 yards Rushing and 6 Rushing TD's for the year.

Most importantly lead us to a 10-6 record where we barely eek out the Patriots for the division title.

Sean McDermott: Josh Allen is the Bills' leader on offense

"Josh is the leader," McDermott said Wednesday before practice as the Bills prepare to host the Detroit Lions on Sunday. "That's a little bit different for a rookie to be the leader, but the position that he plays and the way that he's played and earned their respect, he's the leader on the offense."

...

"You become the leader by earning the respect of your teammates," McDermott said. "Overall we've got a young offense, and that's been well-documented. It's partly because of that but also because of the way Josh has developed."

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"People are going to knock this guy for his accuracy? Are they watching film and checking out his completion percentage and his adjusted completion percentage? Who's even grading that? Is it some guy who's ever played football? Or is it some guy who's eating popcorn in his parents basement? "

LMAO!!!

For all of the morons that cannot get the f... off of that completion percentage b.s. - this exactly sums them up. Completion percentage - talk about a dead horse. But just keep on kicking it.

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Only because you're clinging to your "he's a raw, multi-year project at QB" narrative, rather than what he really is, which is a pretty typical top 10 rookie QB.

He's had some similar struggles to any other top 10 rookie QB over the years and, in some cases, much more success.

And with probably the least amount of talent in the NFL on offense--and even you have acknowledged that fact, multiple times.

Do you think Beane and McDermott are planning on being frugal this offseason and not spending that $90 million we have freed?

Pretty sure each team is required to spend their CAP money.

Do you think Beane and McDermott are planning on putting that money anywhere but offense?

That seems unlikely considering how dominant our Defense has been this year and they seem to criticize our WRs and OL when it comes to Allen's "struggles" this season as often--if not more--than pinning it directly on Josh.

Do you think Dabol will be gone and so Allen will somehow struggle because he's in a new system?

Seems incredibly unlikely Dabol isn't here, so Allen will have a full offseason in the same system to gain chemistry with his WRs and OL, something he didn't have the opportunity to do this past Summer as he stupidly was forced to share #1 reps with Peterman and McCarron for the entirety of the Summer.

Do you just think he's somehow massively inferior to Jared Goff, Carson Wentz and Patrick Mahomes as far as prospects from college to rookie season?

If you're clinging to stats alone, I guess you can make that argument. But if you're watching Allen play and saw Goff and Wentz play their rookie seasons, I think it's pretty clear the way those guys looked in their rookie years is similar to how Allen looks, though Allen's obviously added the superior aspect of the running threat in there.

Goff and Wentz had stats that generally resembled Allen this year but with better supporting casts on offense, especially Wentz.

Massive bumps in their 2nd years.

Hell, even Trubisky has taken a pretty massive jump in year 2. No, not NFL MVP conversation type jump, but still significant. And I guess this is just my opinion, but Trubisky is inferior talent-wise to Allen.

With multiple examples of pretty big 2nd year bumps, I don't know why the idea is so far-fetched to you, other than just needing to cling to a certain narrative that's being largely debunked as the season progresses.

Yep, and I think this is going to be a pretty massive offseason in terms of offensive acquisitions.

I think there are a ton of teams across the NFL with tons of cap space who we're going to have to compete with for free agents.

The WR market sucks, and the OL market will look very different once guys get franchise tagged. There will be some decent players, but a lot of teams will want them. We'll bring in some upgrades, but expecting a massive influx of talent through free agency doesn't make much sense.

There are two guys recently who saw big jumps their second year, and a ton of guys who didn't improve. You're assuming Allen gets a lot better, which is a terrible assumption when you go back 30 years looking at young NFL QBs. Some get better, but most don't. There's a reason the bust rate for 1st round QBs is so high.

Allen might get a lot better, but he might not. Suggesting you know he's going to put up MVP calibre numbers while depending on a new supporting cast that you don't even know what it will look like seems crazy.

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I think there are a ton of teams across the NFL with tons of cap space who we're going to have to compete with for free agents.

Actually, only 11 teams are projected to have more than $50 million in Cap space, only 8 teams are projected to have more than $60 million and only 4 are projected to have more than $80 million.

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

The WR market sucks, and the OL market will look very different once guys get franchise tagged. There will be some decent players, but a lot of teams will want them. We'll bring in some upgrades, but expecting a massive influx of talent through free agency doesn't make much sense.

WR market might not be great, but WR isn't all we need.

We need OL.

We need TE.

But I could still see us bringing in a guy like Golden Tate or Randall Cobb, both of whom are better than what we already have.

But I could see us going after a guy like Kalil or Iupati or both to bolster our interior OL and more.

At TE maybe Eifert? James? Cook?

I think we'll get at least 4 relatively high profile offensive players.

Plus, the draft.

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

There are two guys recently who saw big jumps their second year, and a ton of guys who didn't improve. You're assuming Allen gets a lot better, which is a terrible assumption when you go back 30 years looking at young NFL QBs. Some get better, but most don't. There's a reason the bust rate for 1st round QBs is so high.

Allen might get a lot better, but he might not. Suggesting you know he's going to put up MVP calibre numbers while depending on a new supporting cast that you don't even know what it will look like seems crazy.

Going back 30 years to prove a current point in the NFL is just foolish considering how much the NFL has changed in the last 30 years.

Look no further than me. I tried to use the last 30-40 years of history to prove why we shouldn't draft Allen in April.

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Actually, only 11 teams are projected to have more than $50 million in Cap space, only 8 teams are projected to have more than $60 million and only 4 are projected to have more than $80 million.

WR market might not be great, but WR isn't all we need.

We need OL.

We need TE.

But I could still see us bringing in a guy like Golden Tate or Randall Cobb, both of whom are better than what we already have.

But I could see us going after a guy like Kalil or Iupati or both to bolster our interior OL and more.

At TE maybe Eifert? James? Cook?

I think we'll get at least 4 relatively high profile offensive players.

Plus, the draft.

Going back 30 years to prove a current point in the NFL is just foolish considering how much the NFL has changed in the last 30 years.

Look no further than me. I tried to use the last 30-40 years of history to prove why we shouldn't draft Allen in April.

And I sure look like I was wrong.

Haha I didn't see any history proving raw project Quarterbacks could have as good a start to host career as he's shown post injury ever. EJ Manuel, JaMarcus Russell, who.. like Hackenberg those recent big arm Quarterbacks with that "has potential but needs time to learn Quarterback at the highest level since he hasn't shown it in college" billing seems like it always busts.

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I have enjoyed watching Allen this season, since the elbow injury I think he has come back and stepped up, maybe watching on the sideline helped slow the game down a bit. I am all for seeing Allen being in the MVP talks, I think with some better protection up front, and some better skill players around him he will show a lot of improvement next year.

With everything Allen has done on the field this season, I just can't realistically see him putting up Mahome type numbers, but if I'm wrong then I will gladly eat those words. Of all the rookie QBs from 2018 draft, Allen may be in a better position since he will have another year under Daboll, depending on how things go in Baltimore this season Allen may be the only one with the same HC/OC that he started with.

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Its hard to believe the OP as this is the same guy that thought a Peterman led team would be a playoff team this season. If anything the rookie QB from this season I see making an MVP run would be Mayfield. IMO he looks so far to be the best QB of the bunch and is far ahead of Allen.

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Its hard to believe the OP as this is the same guy that thought a Peterman led team would be a playoff team this season. If anything the rookie QB from this season I see making an MVP run would be Mayfield. IMO he looks so far to be the best QB of the bunch and is far ahead of Allen.

I started that playoff thread specifically saying I didn't think Peterman was good at all, but that I had confidence McDermott would quickly pull the plug on him if needed.

Which he did.

What I didn't account for was Allen getting hurt.

That put a damper on things.

My playoff thoughts actually brewed over the Summer when I assumed our HC would do the smart thing and start Allen from week 1.

And I think if McDermott weren't so damn blindly loyal to Peterman and gave Allen 1st team reps over the Summer, yes, I think we'd be vying very much for that 6 seed now.

Hell, if Allen didn't get hurt and miss more than a month, I think we're still vying for that 6 seed.

I was wrong on that prognosis because, basically, I put more faith in McDermott than I should have. And I like McDermott.

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I have enjoyed watching Allen this season, since the elbow injury I think he has come back and stepped up, maybe watching on the sideline helped slow the game down a bit. I am all for seeing Allen being in the MVP talks, I think with some better protection up front, and some better skill players around him he will show a lot of improvement next year.

With everything Allen has done on the field this season, I just can't realistically see him putting up Mahome type numbers, but if I'm wrong then I will gladly eat those words. Of all the rookie QBs from 2018 draft, Allen may be in a better position since he will have another year under Daboll, depending on how things go in Baltimore this season Allen may be the only one with the same HC/OC that he started with.

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It makes sense but people also said the same think when the Titans keep Mularkey for Mariota and Dirk for Winston. I don’t think Daboll is a dynamic OC and we could do much better. But we’ll see I guess.