So I was at Babalu'u on Wednesday and was, as usual, reminded of my few pet peeves of salsa dancing. I thought I would share my pet peeve and see what all your pet peeves are mainly as a way to let new dancers know the dos and don't of dancing.

My #1 Pet Peeve - People standing in the middle of the dance floor in a club or walking right into you when passing back and forth.

I tried to think back to when I was a beginner to see if I had done the same and I don't think I ever stood in the middle of the dance floor. I was always to the side watching. It can be dangerous standing in the middle as well as take up the precious little space that dancers have in the club. As for walking through and bumping into people, I have bumped into people a few times - I try to be patient and wait and I always apologize if I do bump. Most people just plow right through and can really injure the dancers.

My number one pet peeve is when people dance in the club like they're the only ones there. Men doing crazy turn patterns on women that they end up almost "flying" to the other side of the dance floor. People really need to realize that the space is limited in most clubs and that it's very annoying and distracting when they bump into other people dancing.

What's the deal, salsa people? Been a while since I've done a post on the message board but I'm having so much fun being a helper and not to mention work and the gym but just another day in paradise. My big time peeve is when a group of people go to a club and do some ridiculous movements on the dance floor when salsa is playing and they think they look cool doing it. Plaza Flamingo and Lula Lounge are prime examples of this peeve. Another big time peeve is when two or three guys go to salsa club just to pick up women but they don't even know how to do a two-step. The last but not least big time peeve is partners who are so stiff than when you try to do a simple right turn, it's like trying to unscrew a lugnutt from a wheel using a small wrench: it just ain't happening! By the way, I'm not a dude who likes to do too many crazy turns. I dare say most partners(especially the women) are not fond of too many turns(unless it's Emely). I usually mix it up with shines,some stying, and some basic footwork. Everyone's different but I try to make it as easy and enjoyable as possible. Holla back at ya boy!

People's lack of curtesy is definately annoying. But my biggest pet peeve is the "blame game". I go out dancing because it's fun and it really takes the fun out of dancing when your partner nick picks at every mistake you've made or they've made. I find it a real turn off when I dance with someone and they stop in the middle of a move because they messed up, or because I've messed up. We're all human and sometimes we make mistakes. Some have even gone as far to say "you should have done this instead of that"... It totally takes the fun out of dancing when you nick pick or blame one another when you goof up. The best partners I've danced with are those who can laugh off their silly mishaps... I know I usually do, even when someone dropped me on my ass _________________Katie Y.
Events Coordinator
events@torontodancesalsa.ca

What's the deal, salsa people? I totally agree with KT. It's best to laugh at any mistake that was made and keep going. Don't worry, KT. Next time we dance, I'll definitely won't drop you on your posterior.
Another peeve I have is when you're dancing and you accidentally bump into someone and that person gives you the evil eye, especially if it's someone who's doing some crazy turn patterns or hogging the dance floor! Last time I checked, this wasn't a contest to see who's got the biggest private parts. Holla back at ya boy!_________________You knooow!

I'd have to say a pet peeve of mine is people who dance too big and don't guage the space first before attempting complicated turns and dips. Dips are not appropriate in a busy club.

Another thing...this isn't a pet peeve, but a tip that makes dancing more enjoyable....try to connect with your partner and have some fun. There's nothing more boring than a dancer who AVOIDS eye contact and doesn't play around with the music a little bit no matter how good the dance moves are.

What drives me CRAZY the most is when people are bumping into each other or stepping on your feet with stiletto heels. I think a good leader will always watch the back of a follower. Even as the follower I personally try to watch the back of my partner.
The other things that bother me are crowded clubs, people on the dance floor with drinks in their hands, and the partners that do not dance WITH you, but rather showing off their own skills and no eye contact.

People in North America dance salsa by taking a lot of place (really big cross body leads) and dance far apart. If you dance far apart, you can't see behind your partner. Dance closer, smaller steps, move your hips, play with the basic step. The dancefloor is not a stage. You are there to enjoy the music and have fun. It is not a performance.

I am somewhat agree with the first pet peeve. There are many who will enter your personal space without any regard for other people and what they are doing. But in my experience, there aren't that many people like this out there.

But on the other hand, there are people who put their huge cross body lead rectangle in front of the washroom or entrances to the kitchen or the front door. They block the main pathways of circulation in the nightclub. Aren't you allowed to enter their rectangle (which usually measures half the size of the dancefloor) ? Shouldn't the waiters be allowed to work ? You can't dance the same way you dance in the dance studio as in a night club.

It is a nightclub. There are stupid people darting in and out, not to mention waiters trying to do their job. You have to be able to change how you dance in a nightclub. This is not ballroom, where the dancefloor is divided into perfect rectangles and people dance aligning their rectangle of cross body leads to yours. Shouldn't you look behind your partner and try to save your partner from hitting someone? Do spins have to be so out of control and hard ? Shouldn't you be able to modify your cross body leads or spins to avoid someone ? The funny thing I saw was one guy (an advanced dancer) dancing with a girl and there were people in the way of his rectangle for his cross body leads. So, he stopped dancing !! And he positioned his cross body lead 90 degrees to other people so he could continue dancing. The reason why it was so funny was that he couldn't modify the size of his steps or swing his cross body lead without stopping dancing. Talk about robotic dancing !!

Joined: 26 Nov 2006Posts: 49Location: The centre of the Universe, so far :)

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: Pet Peeve

timbero1 wrote:

The dancefloor is not a stage. You are there to enjoy the music and have fun. It is not a performance.

Hmm...you'll see you contradict yourself at the end of your message.

Quote:

[...]They block the main pathways of circulation in the nightclub. Aren't you allowed to enter their rectangle (which usually measures half the size of the dancefloor) ? Shouldn't the waiters be allowed to work ? You can't dance the same way you dance in the dance studio as in a night club.

Some nightclubs were not designed properly for social dancing. Normally, all the pathways shouldn't be part of the dance floor. It's no one's fault that the dance floor is not delimited and the entrance is part of it.

Quote:

This is not ballroom, where the dancefloor is divided into perfect rectangles and people dance aligning their rectangle of cross body leads to yours. Shouldn't you look behind your partner and try to save your partner from hitting someone?

If a ballroom floor is crowded you have the same issue of getting in some other couples' paths. Not to mention the case of travelling dances, where you have to navigate and avoid slower couples. So if you imply that a ballroom dancer doesn't care about other couples on the dance floor you're wrong.

Quote:

The funny thing I saw was one guy (an advanced dancer) dancing with a girl and there were people in the way of his rectangle for his cross body leads. So, he stopped dancing !! And he positioned his cross body lead 90 degrees to other people so he could continue dancing. The reason why it was so funny was that he couldn't modify the size of his steps or swing his cross body lead without stopping dancing. Talk about robotic dancing !!

Didn't you say "You are there to enjoy the music and have fun. It is not a performance." ? Why are you judging someone's dance as a performance when their intention was not to do a performance? I don't get it - the guy did the right thing by changing his direction, who cares whether he stopped or did a 578 degrees pirouette?

Funny to hear we all talk about the same peeves. My minor ones include:
- Poor ventillation in the clubs. I would like to sometimes not sweat like a pig while dancing. It isn't to sexy when I look like I've just jumped out of the shower after just doing a few basics.
- Pylons. Yes, I too am bothered when people stand in the middle of the precious dancefloor space either just being a pylon.

I really just have one major peeve, and has been metioned here a few times. I basically can't understand guys/leads who execute patterns or steps that are simply not appropriate for the surroundings. I've seen guys execute a neck drop in the middle of a crowded and dark dancefloor! No matter how cool it might look, that's just dangerous. Sometimes I wonder whether some leads throw girls around because they think they can use them as a weapon to clear a space for themselves. You've all seen it right? I would rarely blame a girl for stepping on me in her heels no matter how painful it is, fact of the matter is that she's just following the lead who should be watching out for people.

Anyway, I try to not let these peeves prevent me from enjoying a night out. It is certainly more enjoyable when those on the dancefloor have an awareness that they are not the only one's on the dancefloor.

Let's just say that each person has their own pet peeves, based on the experiences they've had dancing.

Hopefully we're just mentioning our pet peeves with the intention to promote a better dancefloor for everyone and not making fun of beginners who might not yet have learned their P's&Q's of the dancefloor. At least this is a forum where we can feel comfortable sharing our dance experiences and help educate others about some basic dancefloor do's and don'ts.

As always...focus on the positive aspects of improving your own methods of dancing and try to pass along a pleasant experience for others rather than trying to pin point every single thing you hate.

My biggest peeve are leaders and followers who do not or cannot adjust their dance to the conditions. A dance floor is a dance floor, not a mosh pit. I've taken elbows to the back, elbows right between the eyes, a stiletto heel glided down my leg, slid by my instep, bottomed out in my shoe and glided out - not a scratch - all within about three beats. Had I moved my leg, I would have swept that follower right off here feet - from behind. I don't even think she knew where her foot went, even with the squishy bottoming out. Unless I am performing, I wear heavy shoes so when (not if) I'm stepped on I won't get a broken foot or a slashed ankle.

I've had so many people invade my space, I sometimes have to 'push' back a bit to keep being danced right off the floor. I have used a free hand to literally fend them off as I'm executing a pattern.

So much for the war stories. Moving on to the why of my peeve.

Style has a lot to do with it. Many people do CBL-turn, CBL-turn, or turn-CBL. Nothing wrong with that, but they don't know how to cut the CBL short at 90 degrees or even run it through 270 or a full 360 to keep their partner from hitting someone, there is a problem. They cannot adapt to a crowded environment. That is something their instructors should be working on as they learn their patterns. Teach them a little casino to get them used to working close and small. Get them in the habit.

A lot of them do not know how to lead and follow short leads. The Cubans have a saying about 'staying on your square' or 'dancing on your tile'. And that tile can be pretty small. While few people dance 'Cuban' these days, the principles are the same. Arms length shortens to maybe a hand width's distance. A good lead and follow should be able to execute all of their patterns within a 4 foot box or rectangle - including the follower's solo travelling turns that are very popular these days too. The key is adapting the moves you have learned to the space available. If dancing close is not your thing, then salsa in the nightclubs may not be for you, stay in the studio or learn swing.

Regarding the yakkers and the drinksters standing on the floor, that is often ignorance as they are not dancers themselves. Start dancing a little closer to them and usually they back up a bit. Floorcraft 101 I guess.

I'm guilty of not gazing into my partner's eyes, a bit of eye contact yes, but prolonged no... I'm too busy looking behind her to keep her from being trampled by the couple doing sweeping studio turns and I'm looking over my own shoulder waiting for a space to open up to move her into it without bouncing her off anyong.

Have to cross a crowded dance floor to ... get a drink, change your shirt, go to the washroom, powder your nose? Dance across it - move to the beat, show off a bit with a travelling shine, watch the couples and slide by them as they move away from you... don't look for a straight line across, just look for a clear path.

Ask the 'new' Acrobat owners about ventilation. They spent over $35,000 to upgrade what was there. Most of the salsa places were not designed to dissipate the heat from several hundred people burning calories off the same way runners do (and yes Virginia, salsa burns off a lot of calories and generates a whole lot of body heat). Some clubs try by keeping their temperature really cold at the beginning of the evening to dissipate heat later. That's why they feel like refrigerators at 9:00pm.

Other venues such as Dovercourt have no air conditioning. A slow seniors waltz does generate heat like Salsa does. And they will take your $100,000 to install air - anytime. All we can do is grin, sweat and bear it. Wear summer clothes in the winter and bring another shirt.

Valentin,
With all due respect, I don't see the contradiction. I know all nightclubs are not all designed for dancing. But I think if you are dancing in the pathway to the washroom or the doorway in Babalus, you should dance accordingly and not get upset if people walk close to you.

I never implied that Ballroom dancers don't care about other dancers on a crowded dancefloor. I actually think the opposite is true. Most ballroom dancing is geared to competitions, not really social salsa dancing. Are you saying you should dance the same way in a ballroom competition or ballroom lesson as you do in a nightclub?

If a person stops dancing during a song because another person is three meters away and potentially blocking his large cross body lead to reset his cross body lead, I can safely say he is not enjoying the song.

I think I can't change your mind and won't change my mind. And the particular bent your arguments have seem very anti-Cuban style. And you are probably very involved with the Ballroom or North American salsa styles. I am sorry If I hurt you, but try not to get so personally offended or try to attack because you hate people like me.