Summerlander wrote:It's natural that you feel this way at the beginning as do many novices.

Summerlander wrote:OMG you guys are so wrong in so many ways I don't know where to start. Feel free to email me and I'll be happy to give all of you lessons on these matters...Educate yourself...please!!

Is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?

Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

That, and he spams every post there with this form of rhetoric that it becomes overwhelming and completely unbearable to participate.

Like what you do with the site that you moderate, Ryan?

I'm sorry, everyone but Ryan has no manners and he is bitter about me exposing some of his ideas as rather lame on certain occasions. He cannot stand any type of criticism even if it is constructive. If you look at this link here, you will see that he hasn't even bothered to read SOBT. Moreover, he claims that Raduga preaches theories when I have told him a thousand times that it is all about what is practical and what is seen to work.

http://forum.obe4u.com/index.php?topic=1025.0

Anyway, if he wishes to ignore me, let him. I don't mind. at the end of the day he is a vindictive character whose only motive to join obe4u.com was to try to convince Michael Raduga to have me banned. That is exactly what he did in Astral Viewers as he's got his dear friend Bedeekin who supports his empty theories. Bedeekin, by the way, is an Admin there who claims to be able to change physical reality from the phase state.

"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

Peter wrote:This hits the spot as I describe the related experiances, LD, OBE and so on as states of mind rather than places

Waking life too?

I believe so, yes.

I see this physical reality as merely a more stable astral reality. It's a consensus astral reality of those consciousnesses which inhabit it.

I wrote a post on my forum about it last summer, I'll see if I can find it:

A realization hit me this week. It’s the realization that “awareness” is a property of consciousness and not a result of the reality you’re experiencing!

There are a lot of people who see all the different experiences (dreams, lucid dreams and astral projection/obes) as being all separate and different experiences. Well, “awareness” is a property of consciousness… and we can directly view it in relation to our physical reality as well as when we’re non-physical.

Some people believe that dreams, lucid dreams and ap/obes are different. They give the reason that they’re different because they “feel” completely different. Let’s compare our varying levels of awareness in this physical reality? Why don’t you take a look at your “awareness” when you first wake up in the morning? It feels groggy, drowsey and unclear. Now compare that to how your awareness is after your first coffee? And then again a couple hours later? They’re all varying levels of awareness within our physical reality… and the key point is that they all FEEL very different. They all feel like UNIQUE experiences. However, nobody really pays much attention to it because they KNOW better, right? We KNOW when we wake up it’s the physical reality… and throughout the day, we KNOW what is going on.

Well, all of those varying levels of conscious awareness take place in the SAME reality. I experience these same varying levels of consciousness awareness in the non-physical as well. Everything from the “Groggy, drowsy” (dream awareness) feeling, to the “just had a coffee” (lucid awareness) feeling to the “wide awake” (astral awareness) feeling. This tells me that “Awareness” is a Property of Consciousness and NOT a result of the reality you find yourself in.

You make me think In the dream world I am still learning how to intergrate all the levels of awareness into a state that is continious so for now it seems fractured until I gain more experiance and can make seemless transitions at will between say and OBE or a LD, this may not be possible but for the moment all the states are are not entered fluidly and at will.

In waking life we are used to waking up, letting the awareness seep in without making it a act of intent that requires a lot of skill and so on through out the day. I use the example of finding keys, I place them somewhere and say to myself that I have just placed my keys (on the table) and when I need my keys the thought just appears in my mind. All this is seemless in a lot of ways, I dont have that skill in the dream world as for a start the states need to be experianced enought to make them familar, they need to be called up on demand and so it goes on unitil we can at will and with ease just be there (the state of mind not a place)

This tends to make daily life or waking reality less of a state and more of a place. In saying this lucid dreaming and full awareness just keeps getting more abstract the more I practice and I mantain that I live in two worlds.

Not sure I made this any clearer

Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

Ryan wrote:I see this physical reality as merely a more stable astral reality. It's a consensus astral reality of those consciousnesses which inhabit it.

I agree. I believe that our physical reality is a consensus reality, created collectively by the conscious beings that inhabit it. As in other realities, there is an agreement among the participants and certain rules that govern it.

My belief is that when we're done here, we'll get togther with other like-minded conscious beings and pool our abilities to make whatever experiential realities we feel like making. Pull out the stops. I've seen some of this in dreams and it's amazing.

Another reason that the physical world is more stable is that it's slowed down, almost like frozen. If you compare the speeds things move at our level of physical reality to light-speed objects, it's really in another world altogether. Dreams are at a higher frequency or some would say "vibrational level" which is the same thing really. The closer you look at details in a dream the faster things move and I've seen it where it really looks like they are vibrating and glowing.

Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus