Opera 15 preview with Chromium engine released

“Countless hours of hard work, hectoliters of coffee, tons of improvements, two version numbers skipped, and here it is: the all-new Opera for desktop is now out as an Opera Next version, Opera’s channel for what used to be called beta. Made from scratch, this version is available for Windows and Mac and brings a new, elegant design and a bunch of new features that will make your browsing experience sleeker and easier than ever.” The first version using something called ‘Chromium’s engine’ – I guess they can’t call it WebKit anymore, but they can’t call it Blink yet either. It’s looking great, but the bookmark functionality seems to not have been implemented yet in this preview

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The reason to call it “Chromium’s engine” and not just Blink or WebKit, is that this is really far more than just Blink of WebKit. This is also v8, Chromium’s GPU command buffer, Chromium’s networking stack, etc.

Opera’s claims to contribute to Chromium are ridiculous. The whole reason for Blink is that Google found that not even Apple’s contributions to WebKit were enough to offset the hassle of dealing with a shared browser engine. So there is no reason to expect that Google will be interested in the contributions of another company that is much smaller than Apple.

As someone who never really used Opera I was under the impression that it was the innovative features (many of which was later implemented in other browsers) which set it apart, not the rendering engine.

The whole reason for Blink is that Google found that not even Apple’s contributions to WebKit were enough to offset the hassle of dealing with a shared browser engine. So there is no reason to expect that Google will be interested in the contributions of another company that is much smaller than Apple.

Not quiet. Google was using Webkit1, while Apple was moving to Webkit2, and Google had no intention to moving from Webkit1 to Webkit2, since the main difference between the two is that Webkit2 uses several processes for rendering, while Webkit1 is single process. And Chrome uses a different multiprocess approach, and they had no attention of changing it. So in effect, Google was working on Webkit1, and Apple on Webkit2, and Google figured that it would be easier to just rename Webkit1 blink and not depend on Apple’s webkit infrastructure.

Opera’s claims to contribute to Chromium are ridiculous. The whole reason for Blink is that Google found that not even Apple’s contributions to WebKit were enough to offset the hassle of dealing with a shared browser engine. So there is no reason to expect that Google will be interested in the contributions of another company that is much smaller than Apple.

Pure nonsense. Not only has Opera already contributed to Chromium, but Google welcomed them with open arms. They even mentioned Opera specifically in their Blink announcement!

I seriously hope they reinstitute Z-order for tab switching in later betas, rather than simplistic left to right.

Also, mouse button navigation isn’t working.

Those two things are probably the biggest quirks that keep me on Opera, and this doesn’t have them.

Same here. I’ve been using Opera for many years now, I think since somewhere around version 5. I did always like the work Opera developers have been putting into delivering a user-friendly interface which emphasized excellent integration of mouse and keyboard. Mouse gestures and keyboard shortcuts made simple things easy. It felt like they had “invested brain power” to make things work smoothly. Maybe I’m just stupid, but I found competitors (Firefox, Safari, Chrome) not as “fast and easy” as Opera… yes I know, there are extensions, add-ins, add-ons and who knows what to enable “Opera-like” functions in those browsers, but Opera had them out of the box. 🙂

Within the last years, I’ve been observing a significant decline in program functionality. The features of the file dialog (prefix to change directory, automatic appending of file extensions, editable directory hierarchy dropdown) and the printer generator, as well as (for some versions) the unneccessary coupling to CUPS (I don’t have it, I don’t need it, my printer speaks PS, thank you). And prior to using Opera, I had to configure more and more things.

I’m interested in seeing if the new “inner bowels” of the browser are able to provide a fast and modern browsing experience with the known and reliable “outer interface” many Opera users love so much (me included). Sadly, my OS is not on the list yet. 🙂

There’s still time before it’s actually released to, you know, (hopefully) improve it.

I’m not running Windows or Mac and I don’t want to try Wine (which works half-ass, if at all, most of the time), so I’ll just wait and see. Hopefully they can fully Opera-ify it. Opera *was* a really good browser.

Edit: From the article:

“…two version numbers skipped, …”

Uhh… I really hope this is just a one-time thing and not a hint that they’re going to pull the same version-jumping game that the Google and Mozilla are playing, bumping the major version number every time they take a shit to see who can count to 100 fastest…

Uhh… I really hope this is just a one-time thing and not a hint that they’re going to pull the same version-jumping game that the Google and Mozilla are playing, bumping the major version number every time they take a shit to see who can count to 100 fastest…

It has been six years since Chrome went to a rapid release cycle and you still haven’t managed to get informed about it?

It has been six years since Chrome went to a rapid release cycle and you still haven’t managed to get informed about it?

The fact that Chrome’s closer to 100 and Mozilla just decided to be a Chrome wannabe shortly after its original release and popularity says it all. Let’s see who hits 100 first and realizes that their versioning scheme is unsustainable, and has to switch to something new. Should be entertaining to see who has the bigger… eh, version numbers.

It has been six years since Chrome went to a rapid release cycle and you still haven’t managed to get informed about it?

The fact that Chrome’s closer to 100 and Mozilla just decided to be a Chrome wannabe shortly after its original release and popularity says it all. Let’s see who hits 100 first and realizes that their versioning scheme is unsustainable, and has to switch to something new. Should be entertaining to see who has the bigger… eh, version numbers.

Don’t worry. If things get too rough for them, they’ll just be little babies and cry to the EU like they did the last time. I wonder if, this time, the EU will have enough sense to tell them where to put it.

Don’t worry. If things get too rough for them, they’ll just be little babies and cry to the EU like they did the last time. I wonder if, this time, the EU will have enough sense to tell them where to put it.

So if you report a crime, you are a crybaby? Because that’s what was done: Microsoft broke the law, and someone reported that to the authorities.

By the way, are Google, Mozilla, Adobe, etc. crybabies as well, since they joined the EC complaint?

The fact is that Microsoft was found in violation. So that tells YOU where to put it.

…I guess this means that even opera think ther browser was finished. How many users of browsers bother to change their browser’s skin? Or even know or care what a “skin” is?

Opera’s problem was that they concentrated too much on features for nerds and never advertised their browser enough… then firefox came a long – that was really the first nails going into opera’s coffin.

Chrome has gotten worse and worse for me, with weird lags and strange behavior, and dropping support for older Linux distributions at a rather disturbing rate. I trust Opera further than I trust Google to make a browser with an eye for the end-user. Certainly that is closer to their main motivation than it is to Googles.

Chrome has gotten worse and worse for me, with weird lags and strange behavior, and dropping support for older Linux distributions at a rather disturbing rate. I trust Opera further than I trust Google to make a browser with an eye for the end-user. Certainly that is closer to their main motivation than it is to Googles.

I clearly prefer Chrome, but me too have seen sudden lags and CPU peaks that wasn’t there before. Hope they fix it.

I hope they don’t ruin Opera Mini any time soon, it’s an absolute blessing on the mobiles!

I don’t see what’s been ruined in Opera 15. It’s unsatisfactory (to many) because it’s still at preview stage. I think your worries come too early.

Personally, I don’t care what engine Opera wants to use, as long as the Turbo/Off-Road feature will still do its job well. Turbo/Off-Road is the only reason I still use Opera sometimes, but only when high-speed connection is unavailable. Firefox/Iceweasel for serious browsing and W3m in TTY for recreational browsing are usually more than enough, at least for me.

actually I liked a lot the responsiveness of the browsing area itself but also missed a lot of features from very simple and not too useful (for example, the slider bar in the right bottom to change the zoom of the page) to very useful and important (bookmarks, Opera Link or things like that).

Actually I thought they were to change just the rendering engine and let everything as is, but we all know that that was not the point.

So, let’s wait after the Opera 15 release to see if the Opera guys start to put into the browser all the things that made Opera different from the others.

Actually, after using Opera 15 for some hours, I like it; it is pretty fast, a lot of pages look far better than in Opera 12.15. Yes, a lot of things are missing but I really hope the Opera guys will add them gradually into their browser.

I’ve used Opera back in version 4-5 days. This just feels like an old engineering veteran is being recruited in a businessman position for a company founded by some 12-year old kid, whos dad was the owner of a TV station, so he could promote the kid over the whole country.

Yes, it is the end of an era, but the beginning of other one. Let’s no blame Opera until we will see what they will bring us in the future.

We all can see what their plan is. Base your browser on Chromium so you have a fast browser without any risk. Add a few features that make you browser ‘unique’. They will of course lose most Opera 12 users that went with Opera because of the innovative features. They will gain Chrome users that like the new features they implement.

Overall a low risk solution for Opera.

I wonder how much Opera will still be a player in building the internet like they did with CSS.

It looks like the “doom mongers” were right about Opera’s new direction. It used to be the most highly customisable “power user” browser around, with a lot of unique features to set it apart. Now it’s becoming a stripped down mobile browser that just happens to have a desktop version. I see no indication that this is going to change between preview and full release.

I guess that explains why so many of Opera’s advanced features haven’t been updated (or even bug fixed) in recent versions. There wasn’t much point in improving them when they were going to be removed from the browser completely.

Opera was the one browser I could tweak and customise to meet my preferences near perfectly. There’s still nothing on the market on a par with classic Opera for management of multiple tabs, and along with features like the Notes panel, that often made Opera a significantly superior research tool. For me, any other browser I switch to will be a downgrade.

Obviously its desktop niche was too small and they’re trying a different direction, but as someone who’s used Opera since version 2 I’m really going to miss the browser.

Now it’s becoming a stripped down mobile browser that just happens to have a desktop version. I see no indication that this is going to change between preview and full release.

You are missing the point. They rewrite the UI from scratch. This is just the first step. They’re not going to stop adding features.

Opera 15 is the foundation. It isn’t becoming stripped down. It is stripped down now because it’s physically impossible to add tons of features in such a short amount of time. But it will be less stripped down as it matures.

You are missing the point. They rewrite the UI from scratch. This is just the first step. They’re not going to stop adding features.

I’m sure they’re going to add to it, just like Microsoft will be adding extra features to Modern UI, but that doesn’t mean that all the classic UI features and customisability will ever be reimplemented.

I’d be less worried if some of Opera’s niche features hadn’t been broken/abandoned even before this rewrite. To me it seems to be following a trend where Opera are copying the simplicity of Chrome, rather than providing a flexible browser for users who value a lot of advanced features.

The depressing thing is that Opera staff who’ve commented don’t even seem to get what people are complaining about…

I’m sure they’re going to add to it, just like Microsoft will be adding extra features to Modern UI, but that doesn’t mean that all the classic UI features and customisability will ever be reimplemented.

I’d be less worried if some of Opera’s niche features hadn’t been broken/abandoned even before this rewrite. To me it seems to be following a trend where Opera are copying the simplicity of Chrome, rather than providing a flexible browser for users who value a lot of advanced features.

Again: You are missing the point. They rewrite the UI from scratch. This is just the first step. They’re not going to stop adding features.

You just ignored what I wrote about this just being the first version, and that the first version obviously isn’t going to have tons of features.

They need to get the basics right before they start adding all sorts of stuff.

The depressing thing is that Opera staff who’ve commented don’t even seem to get what people are complaining about…

You just ignored what I wrote about this just being the first version, and that the first version obviously isn’t going to have tons of features.

That comment’s ironic considering the fact that you’ve completely ignored what I wrote. My point was that the trend towards Opera becoming less customisable and abandoning features started before this rewrite. That doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence that the full Opera UI will return.

When people have brought up niche features, such as MDI abilities like tiling tabs, I’ve seen Opera staff question how important they are and talk about “streamlining” the browser’s features to those that people “really use”.

Opera 15 is the first version of Opera not to allow complete customisation of the browser’s layout, as well as all menus and keyboard shortcuts. Again, I’ve seen the popularity and importance of this questioned, which doesn’t make it sound like Opera 15 will regain that high level of customisability.

Considering their limited resources, it would make sense for Opera to focus on the most popular features and abandon development of things that relatively few people care about. But for me some of those features are among the main reasons why I started using Opera over 15 years ago.

Would you bet that all the niche features that made Opera unique will ever return in future versions?

That doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence that the full Opera UI will return.

I sure hope it won’t. It was far too complex, causing all kinds of weird regressions. Fixing something in one spot would break something somewhere else because the UI was insanely complex and flexible, and everything tied tightly together.

That shit just doesn’t scale. And it was only getting worse.

When people have brought up niche features, such as MDI abilities like tiling tabs, I’ve seen Opera staff question how important they are and talk about “streamlining” the browser’s features to those that people “really use”.

So? That doesn’t mean they don’t understand what people are complaining about. It simply means that they disagree with them. And Opera has actual data on what people are using the browser for, remember.

Would you bet that all the niche features that made Opera unique will ever return in future versions?

They shouldn’t. Opera should focus on adding quality features. Quality over quantity.

I sure hope it won’t. It was far too complex, causing all kinds of weird regressions. Fixing something in one spot would break something somewhere else because the UI was insanely complex and flexible, and everything tied tightly together.

Even if that’s true (which, if it is, doesn’t say much about the abilities of Opera devs, considering how much more complicated many other applications’ UIs are), it’s irrelevant to anything I’ve said.

I’m just speaking about myself, my preferences, and how I feel about Opera’s changes. Try to read and comprehend that.

I haven’t been saying what Opera should do. I haven’t been commenting that they’re making a mistake from a business perspective. I’m just pointing out that Opera is becoming less feature rich and customisable (something that you now seem to be agreeing with me about), and commenting that I’m going to miss the browser that Opera used to be.

They shouldn’t. Opera should focus on adding quality features. Quality over quantity.

My idea of a “quality” feature will probably be different from yours, or that of the current Opera developers.

Quantity (and customisability) has a quality all of its own, allowing for choice and individual preference in a way that a small selection of “quality” features does not. If I wanted to use a stripped down browser with a limited selection of features then I’d already be using one.

Personally, I use Opera because I can customise it to meet my preferences, heavily tweaking the layout of the browser so that it’s extremely minimalist and just has the features I use. When researching a subject, or even just shopping online and reading reviews, I find certain unique Opera features like MDI/tiling to be extremely useful. If I can’t do these things in Opera then I’ll switch to something like Firefox, and take the extra selection of useful extensions as a consolation.

No, I’m not saying that Opera devs should care about my preferences, or whether one long term user abandons the browser. I’m just speaking from my perspective as someone who loves Opera’s current features and will be sad to have to use something that’s inferior for my needs.

Like I said in the post title, from my perspective it’s unsurprising, but still depressing.

Alpha or not, I’m not going anymore with any Opera Diluted release. Since desktop version 12 Opera hangs on certain sites (don’t know if it’s the extensions that breaks things or not) but Opera still claims everything is fine while hundreds of users scream at them that : NO, definitively NO, not everything is perfect. Far from.

In desktop version 11 that introduced, pardon me… pushed down users’ throat the new “visual mouse gesture” with a new algorithm that made things really lame. There was a huge uproar on the forum and they release 3 versions before correcting this issue, always rejecting faults on users for their lack of adaptedness. Come on…

Sure they tweaked their Presto engine to run the Acid3 test first, but some site still renders strangely, and rejecting fault on webmasters is the easy path. The user don’t give a f–k whose at fault, he just want to access the Internet flawlessly.

And now this : good they are using a more robust rendering engine (stop praising Presto, in the end it haven’t impressed much otherwise Opera would have got much market share) but their are still experimenting with UI. Do we really need everything to change at each incarnation ?

Opera proudly introduced WebGL in late desktop version 11 betas and early 12 alphas, but it still can render only very simple WebGL. Their introduce things but not complete them afterward. So I’m getting really fed up of using long lasting alpha released as stable.

And don’t get me on speaking about the M2 mail client that often breaks (on power outage) due to temporary files not being correctly flushed and original files corruption. Ability to recover from mail database corruption ? Almost none, not automated wizardry to recover mail files into accounts and resync everything, all what you have is an import file-by-file facility. Seriously…

Since desktop version 12 Opera hangs on certain sites (don’t know if it’s the extensions that breaks things or not) but Opera still claims everything is fine while hundreds of users scream at them that

Really? Proof, please. I want some specific examples of this.

There was a huge uproar on the forum and they release 3 versions before correcting this issue, always rejecting faults on users for their lack of adaptedness. Come on…

Really? They blamed the users? Proof, please. Otherwise one will have conclude that you are a liar.

Sure they tweaked their Presto engine to run the Acid3 test first, but some site still renders strangely, and rejecting fault on webmasters is the easy path. The user don’t give a f–k whose at fault, he just want to access the Internet flawlessly.

This is a blatant lie. Opera doesn’t blame the webmasters. They made Presto from scratch to be as compatible as possible. I don’t know what your agenda is, lying about Opera like this, so maybe you could explain.

Why are you lying about Opera blaming other people?

but their are still experimenting with UI. Do we really need everything to change at each incarnation ?

Ok, now you are getting annoying. Do you not understand the concept of creating a UI from scratch? Are you so ignorant of software development that you don’t understand that you can’t implement a hundred features in a few days?

Hmmm, the Opera forum is full of proofs, I won’t waste my time pointing them out to you, the last time I did the opponent, obviously moved and unable to come with counter argument just ditched the proofs away.

I liked Opera up to version 12, but things really came downhill since version 10.

You can call me liar all you want, you can praise Opera from making Presto from ground up, compliant, whatever, nonetheless it remains bad at rendering several sites. And no, I won’t list them either.

Why do they have to reinvent the UI ? UI here, UI there, it’s getting really ridiculous. All because Microsoft started its Modern UI stuff everybody follows like sheeps ? Google made it for Android, Apple make it for iOS 7, etc…

Nope, I discovered Opera at version 6, and growing to version 9 to 10, it was almost miraculous : news features added without almost anything breaking for one version to another. Version 10 was almost at the top, then things started to break, little by little.

It’s hard to make an exhaustive listing of what happened, but while Opera improved in many areas, there was certain features that gone bad and obviously Opera wasn’t very eager to correct them, if not to support them anymore.

Now they have done “a new UI from scratch”. First, it’s just an UI, it’s not a complete rendering engine. Second, they already had an UI, one of the best that made me choose Opera above many opponents (that copied Opera step by step). So why, instead to improve the original experience, they decided to abandon it altogether ?

Here we are : Opera had a very good UI, a pretty nice rendering engine. Now they decided to use a very good engine and are just messing with a new UI like newbies with no previous experience. Reinventing the wheel is not a good option some days. See Microsoft’s attempt with Modern UI, could Opera bear to experience the same fiasco ?

Hmmm, the Opera forum is full of proofs, I won’t waste my time pointing them out to you, the last time I did the opponent, obviously moved and unable to come with counter argument just ditched the proofs away.

In other words, you have no proof. You only have the lies you made up.

If you had actual proof that Opera claims everything is fine and blamed the users, you would have posted it. But you don’t, so that’s proof that you lied.

You can call me liar all you want, you can praise Opera from making Presto from ground up, compliant, whatever, nonetheless it remains bad at rendering several sites. And no, I won’t list them either.

That’s not the question. You claimed that Opera only blamed sites, and I wanted proof. Because if you read official blogs they keep talking about how they’re working on making Opera more compatible with the web, and they have said numerous times that Presto was designed to be compatible with real sites.

And again, I pointed web sites that actually renders badly under Opera, and whooops, you just “forgot” them Tiresome…

And you expect me to point you “proofs” to be “forgotten” as well ? I won’t waste my time, you’re just this kind of rose-tainted glass people that cannot cope with criticism. There’s really no use arguing with you, you’ll always elude the evidence, telling… shouting how much a liar liar LIAAAAAR I am.

Be a man, live with it, Opera failed. They had a pretty honest success for their niche, but if they had to go Chrominium/Blink/whatever, then they must have concluded that the Presto way wasn’t worth.

BTW you seems very impressed by articles. Yet, while Opera pretend to have made such an “entirely new and expansive foundation”, they could just have configured the UI with all the features of the old one (including M2). And there is also UI frameworks available, is that really necessary to produce another incarnation/fragmentation ?

And again, I pointed web sites that actually renders badly under Opera, and whooops, you just “forgot” them Tiresome…

That wasn’t what I asked you about. Site problems is one of the reason they are switching in the first place.

What YOU need to prove is that they are blaming the sites.

BTW you seems very impressed by articles. Yet, while Opera pretend to have made such an “entirely new and expansive foundation”, they could just have configured the UI with all the features of the old one (including M2).

No they couldn’t. You are incredibly ignorant.

But back to the topic: You lied about Opera blaming the users, and you lied about Opera only blaming sites.

I told you that several web sites renders improperly under Opera, I provide proofs, and you’re told me I’m a liar, that Presto is fabulous and compliant. I provide proofs, and you ditch them with a “That wasn’t what I asked you about” ? Come on…

What YOU need to prove is that they are blaming the sites.

I said : come on… Whenever I’ll proove you my words (and I know they’re true) you’ll quickly jump to another subject, like you just done. I pointed you the forum in which Opera developers claims users’ fault. Of course it’s not on the main page and the headlines. Learn to use the search option of the forum.

No they couldn’t. You are incredibly ignorant.

They… couldn’t ? Really ? That’s one of a surprising answer. You mean, the less functional UI was able to, but the new shiny and expansive framwork cannot ? And I’m the one ignorant here ?

But back to the topic: You lied about Opera blaming the users, and you lied about Opera only blaming sites.

Nope, you’re obviously the one jumping to conclusion twisting the reality, just show above. I never said “ONLY” blaming sites, some sites have their part at fault. But well, go as you wish, dices were already thrown, we’ll see if Opera wins in the end…

Having more rendering engines make it harder for web developers, but really it is the fault of the rendering engine developers. Thus it keeps everybody on there tows to make sure there implementations work as per certain standards.

Now if Opera didn’t have the resources to keep working on their rendering engine and new Opera features, why not simply open source the rendering engine. That would have been much less work than what they did now.