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Well Smith is also a 3-4 end, but he is certainly better than Wilfork.

Originally Posted by ZHawk1123

Its a bad thread for sure... He's not gonna win DPOY, but he is probably the best DT in the league...

He doesn't get the credit he deserves is what it comes down to

Geno Atkins is in another level relative to Wilfork and any other DT out there. And then you got guys like Kyle Williams, Melton, Suh (really turned up the second half of this season), Fairley, McCoy and Mosley.

Well Smith is also a 3-4 end, but he is certainly better than Wilfork.

Geno Atkins is in another level relative to Wilfork and any other DT out there. And then you got guys like Kyle Williams, Melton, Suh (really turned up the second half of this season), Fairley, McCoy and Mosley.

Those are all good DT's, but if you watch Wilfork on a game to game basis, your opinion would change. He doesn't get the pretty sack stats, much like Richard Seymour never did. He changes the run game like no other, the dude is a straight bulldozer as well as a great athlete for his size. Not saying he's the best by any means because I do believe Geno Atkins is a straight up beast. But to say Smith is certainly better than Wilfork is ignorance at its finest. Watch some more Patriots games and you'll see. I'd put Wilfork as a top 3 DT which he always has been.

Another week, another win for the Patriots, and another dominant performance from nose tackle Vince Wilfork.

The heart and soul of the Patriots' defensive line was nearly unblockable against the Texans on Monday night, standing tall to collect four tackles (including one for a loss), a sack and a forced fumble.

He led the charge for a defensive line that coordinator Matt Patricia said stood out in the team's 42-14 thrashing of the AFC's top team.

"You've really got to give credit to those guys up front. They did a heckuva job playing really good fundamental disciplined football," Patricia said.

"Vince obviously leads the charge and is a tremendous player for us in the front. He obviously demands a lot of attention from the opponents, which in other cases can free up teammates and stuff that we talked about earlier in the year on some plays that present themselves where he's obviously such a force in there. He gets those plays every once in a while where he is singled up, or has a chance or opportunity to make a good play, which he did quite a bit last night."

Between the work he does in freeing up space for linebackers, taking on blockers, stuffing the run, collapsing the pocket as a pass rusher, and providing standout leadership on defense, the value of Wilfork is difficulty to quantify, according to Patricia.

"I think it's really difficult to kind of say," he said. "Obviously the biggest stat we're concerned with is winning and I think you could definitely say that Vince helps us win every week. That's really what we're trying to do, and that's what we're trying to work for as a defense, is to get better. That's the stat we're looking for, so it's hard, like you said, there's not a real stat for it. We're just trying to win and do what we can to win, and I think obviously for us it's just a key component."

Well Smith is also a 3-4 end, but he is certainly better than Wilfork.

Geno Atkins is in another level relative to Wilfork and any other DT out there. And then you got guys like Kyle Williams, Melton, Suh (really turned up the second half of this season), Fairley, McCoy and Mosley.

Smith plays a different position completely, so saying he is better doesn't really hold any merit or relevance to what was being said.

A traditional nose tackle in a 34 defense might hold more importance than any other position outside of quarterback in the NFL, and there is nobody who plays it better than Wilfork. His value to his defense is arguably second to none.

Those are all good DT's, but if you watch Wilfork on a game to game basis, your opinion would change. He doesn't get the pretty sack stats, much like Richard Seymour never did. He changes the run game like no other, the dude is a straight bulldozer as well as a great athlete for his size. Not saying he's the best by any means because I do believe Geno Atkins is a straight up beast. But to say Smith is certainly better than Wilfork is ignorance at its finest. Watch some more Patriots games and you'll see. I'd put Wilfork as a top 3 DT which he always has been.

I can't remember a single player disrupting and causing havok against the Texans run game and o-line like Wilfork did last night.

Those are all good DT's, but if you watch Wilfork on a game to game basis, your opinion would change. He doesn't get the pretty sack stats, much like Richard Seymour never did. He changes the run game like no other, the dude is a straight bulldozer as well as a great athlete for his size. Not saying he's the best by any means because I do believe Geno Atkins is a straight up beast. But to say Smith is certainly better than Wilfork is ignorance at its finest. Watch some more Patriots games and you'll see. I'd put Wilfork as a top 3 DT which he always has been.

I wouldn't and the scouting stats (i.e. PFF) agrees with me.

I watch Pats games as I watch Niners games given that I make it a prerogative to know elite teams as well as I can. Wilfork is a fantastic player, but Smith is currently one of the top D lineman in the NFL and is one of the key reasons for Niner's D ridiculous dominance.

Originally Posted by ricky recon

Smith plays a different position completely, so saying he is better doesn't really hold any merit or relevance to what was being said.

A traditional nose tackle in a 34 defense might hold more importance than any other position outside of quarterback in the NFL, and there is nobody who plays it better than Wilfork. His value to his defense is arguably second to none.

They both play DL; they aren't as different players as you try to paint.

And no, there are many other positions on defense than can hold as much value to NT if not likely more, especially in today's game. Pass rushers undoubtedly hold more value than a NT. As do elite playmakers like Revis, Reed, Washington, Polamalu, Earl Thomas, Sherman, Willis, Bowman, etc.

Wilfork's value is second to none on a very average defense. As an overall defensive player, his value wouldn't cut the top 10 in the NFL and his position is in no way the most valuable. He is what he is, a a very good player, but trying to convince that a traditional NT in today's NFL still holds the most valuable is a flat out lie. That title goes to pass rushers and then probably elite playmakers. NTs generally hold great value against the run which is what Wilfork obviously excels in. HOWEVER, as already mentioned, given the love for passing these days, NT does not hold near the value it once did.

I watch Pats games as I watch Niners games given that I make it a prerogative to know elite teams as well as I can. Wilfork is a fantastic player, but Smith is currently one of the top D lineman in the NFL and is one of the key reasons for Niner's D ridiculous dominance.

They both play DL; they aren't as different players as you try to paint.

And no, there are many other positions on defense than can hold as much value to NT if not likely more, especially in today's game. Pass rushers undoubtedly hold more value than a NT. As do elite playmakers like Revis, Reed, Washington, Polamalu, Earl Thomas, Sherman, Willis, Bowman, etc.

Wilfork's value is second to none on a very average defense. As an overall defensive player, his value wouldn't cut the top 10 in the NFL and his position is in no way the most valuable. He is what he is, a a very good player, but trying to convince that a traditional NT in today's NFL still holds the most valuable is a flat out lie. That title goes to pass rushers and then probably elite playmakers. NTs generally hold great value against the run which is what Wilfork obviously excels in. HOWEVER, as already mentioned, given the love for passing these days, NT does not hold near the value it once did.

You're acting like Smith is far and away better than Wilfork.. You have no strong evidence to prove it, you might like Justin Smith more, I like him too. But he also has a completely stacked defense playing with him so it's easier to look a lot better when you have Aldon Smith who's having a record breaking season lining up next to you. Vince Wilfork has been the only thing the Patriots defense has been able to rely on the past years. Even in a pass heavy league, the dude gets doubled teamed every play which frees up other people to get sacks.

You say that you try to keep up with elite teams. Did you even watch the AFC championship game last year? Or any primetime game with the Patriots playing? Vince Wilfork is certainly way above a top 10 DT.... I feel like I'm arguing with either a biased fan who has a woody Justin Smith who also doesn't watch Wilfork enough, or a child.

You're acting like Smith is far and away better than Wilfork.. You have no strong evidence to prove it, you might like Justin Smith more, I like him too. But he also has a completely stacked defense playing with him so it's easier to look a lot better when you have Aldon Smith who's having a record breaking season lining up next to you. Vince Wilfork has been the only thing the Patriots defense has been able to rely on the past years. Even in a pass heavy league, the dude gets doubled teamed every play which frees up other people to get sacks.

First of all, I'm not. If anything, my original post was in response to a Pats fan who said "everyone" would take Wilfork over Smith.

You say that you try to keep up with elite teams. Did you even watch the AFC championship game last year? Or any primetime game with the Patriots playing? Vince Wilfork is certainly way above a top 10 DT.... I feel like I'm arguing with either a biased fan who has a woody Justin Smith who also doesn't watch Wilfork enough, or a child.

Only children resort to insults. If you want to debate, that's fine, otherwise don't bother.

Anyway, yes, I've watched plenty of Wilfork. And it's fantastic that he shows up for big games. But you have to show up for ALL games. This season he started off VERY slow. Hell, I'm not the only one who has said this in this very thread. He's a top 10 DT, but I can think of 7-8 who have a case over Wilfork. As it stands, THIS season, Atkins is in his own league, followed by McCoy, Kyle Williams, and Fairley in the next category. Then you got your Suh, WILFORK, Melton and a few others. Again, this is the body of work for this season. I don't care what happened in previous seasons.

First of all, I'm not. If anything, my original post was in response to a Pats fan who said "everyone" would take Wilfork over Smith.

Only children resort to insults. If you want to debate, that's fine, otherwise don't bother.

Anyway, yes, I've watched plenty of Wilfork. And it's fantastic that he shows up for big games. But you have to show up for ALL games. This season he started off VERY slow. Hell, I'm not the only one who has said this in this very thread. He's a top 10 DT, but I can think of 7-8 who have a case over Wilfork. As it stands, THIS season, Atkins is in his own league, followed by McCoy, Kyle Williams, and Fairley in the next category. Then you got your Suh, WILFORK, Melton and a few others. Again, this is the body of work for this season. I don't care what happened in previous seasons.

I'm debating with a dude that ONLY watches the big games. That's the reason I brought up the games in primetime along with the AFC championship. Unless you watch every Patriots game which I doubt you do because then you'd realize how much of an impact Wilfork has. He did start off fairly slow as the Patriots as a team did as well. But I still wouldn't fault him for that because as of right now he's playing like an all-pro. To be honest I can't really argue too much about it, because all I can do is show you game tape.

You're putting Fairley and Suh ahead of Wilfork, who gave up 2 td's and 100 yard rushing to Arian Foster, while just last night Wilfork completely shut him down every time Foster came close to him. On 15 carries Foster only had 46 yards. The Texans were playing down for most of the game but if you watched, they couldn't do much at all with the run game.

You're really only saying that getting pressure on the quarterback is what makes a DT valuable, which is simple-minded and makes you look like a child.