Thanks Gregg, looks like your questions got to the list before mine...but
they are similar in nature.
Speak away Chuck...you've got my interest piqued... :-)
- Mike
At 11:13 PM 11/3/97 -0600, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:
>Chuck
>
>I'm missing something here. The only way currently to use a graphic as a
>bullet is to *not* use the list constructs (tags) and to just have the
>graphic bullets as small graphic images inserted in front a bunch of
>indented one line paragraphs (or they use line breaks to keep the lines
>closer together). At least that is what people are doing now.
>
>How does Active Accessibility tell you that that is a list?
>
>(If and when you can specify that an image is used as a bullet image then
>you don't need to put alt text in cause there will be not images to put the
>alt text on. If graphics are turned off I would presume the regular
>bullets would appear. Hmmmm would the alt text appear at the top of the
>list where there image specification for the list was placed? --unless of
>course it is in the style sheet.)
>
>By the way, an old question that didn't get answered (at least if it did I
>missed it - too much stuff too late at night). Does HTML 4.0 allow a
>graphic to be specified as the image to be used in a UL ? Can you do
>it with CSS or CSS2?
>
>
>
>You also wrote:
>so if I have a picture of a furry dog as my list
>item graphic, I as an HTML author need to always use "Item" as the ALT
> attribute? Isn't this a misuse of the ALT attribute?
>
>I would say the answer is no. The purpose of ALT is to represent the
>*function* not the look of an item. If all your bullets are fuzzy dogs and
>that is just because you are a pet shop, then "item" would be the function
>of the Dog bullets. If you used dog and cat bullets to indicate dog and
>cat related items then "dog item" or "cat item" would be the proper alt
>text. Unless the fuzzyness of the dog represented some meaning, it would
>not be in the alt tag.
>
>At least that is my reading of the consensus of the list. Anyone else
>read it differently?
>
>
>
>Also, has anyone tested this on any other screen readers? If so let me
>know. I'm going to run some tests here but we don't have all the screen
>reader and browser combinations.
>
>Please just listen to the following lines on your systems and tell me (on
>the list or separately) which ones pause and which do not.
>
>Item. Bananas with period.
>Item, Bananas with comma.
>Item: Bananas with semicolon.
>
>I have also attached an HTML page with the above items on it. Please let
>me know if you get a different result with the HTML page.
>
>
>
>(Need to know results soonest for guidelines)
>
>thx
>
>
>Gregg
>
>
>-- ------------------------------
>Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>Professor - Human Factors
>Dept of Ind. Engr. - U of Wis.
>Director - Trace R & D Center
>gv@trace.wisc.edu http://trace.wisc.edu
>FAX 608/262-8848
>For a list of our listserves send "lists" to listproc@trace.wisc.edu
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles (Chuck) Oppermann [SMTP:chuckop@MICROSOFT.com]
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 1997 8:39 PM
>To: 'po@trace.wisc.edu'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>Subject: RE: ALT-attribute usage (fwd)
>
>I disagree with this - so if I have a picture of a furry dog as my list
>item graphic, I as an HTML author need to always use "Item" as the ALT
>attribute? Isn't this a misuse of the ALT attribute?
>
>Via the HTML object model and Active Accessibility, screen readers will
>know they are talking to a list item already. This guideline only helps
>down level browsers and certain screen readers with the *visual*
>presentation of the list item.
>
>I fear that this kind of guideline only makes adoption less likely by
>being confusing.
>
>Charles Oppermann
>Windows NT User Interface Group, Microsoft Corporation
>mailto:chuckop@microsoft.com http://microsoft.com/enable/
>"A computer on every desk and in every home, usable by everyone!"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregg Vanderheiden [SMTP:po@trace.wisc.edu]
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 1997 1:11 PM
> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: ALT-attribute usage (fwd)
>
> Perfect. Just the feedback we needed.
>
> Unless I hear otherwise the guidelines will recommend
>
> 1) that any graphics used as bullets have the alt text "Item"
>With a
> character to cause a pause after the word.
>
> The two candidates are Comma and Semicolon. Possibly with a
>space
> afterward to keep the word from running into the next word.
>
> Couple of questions to close this one off
>
> - Is there a consensus that there should be "item"? (I thought
>I got one
> but am not sure)
> - Is comma the proper character for a pause. It is longer but
>longer may
> not be better. And Semicolon looks better visually and more
>natural so it
> might get included more. Should we use Semicolon or comma?
> - Is the space needed? Can someone confirm? Is it needed for
>comma? Is
> it needed for Semicolon?
>
>
> Thanks much.
>
> Gregg
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> Guidelines Scribe and Compiler
>
>
>Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\ItemTest.htm"
>
>
>
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