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The BMW E60 M5 in stock form is stronger than the new twin turbo 550 models from Mercedes and its strength really is the top end. Well, the new Twin Turbo motors are changing the game as this video shows as with a tune the M278 V8 is not only on par with an S85 V10 but one that also is tuned. Turbos definitely make that possible. In stock form the M278 puts out about 40 less wheel horsepower than the BMW S85 V10 which is in the 420 wheel horsepower range stock.

With a tune however, Renntech has shown the M278 can get up to the 480 wheel range. This is just a bit more than the S85 V10 can hit with just a tune. The end result is two tune only cars that are fairly evenly matched as the video below shows. The M278 definitely is an impressive motor.

2. So are you saying that the M5 is MORE traction limited than an E63, REALLY?

No I'm saying the stat is traction limited as a whole, it's pretty much useless these days.

Originally Posted by mramg1

Come on Joe, on #1 is E85 and other things really tuned only? I have a friend on another board that ran 11.78 with an E55 TUNE only. Okay sticky tires, but NO pulley, HE, race gas, etc, etc.

I'm just saying the twin turbo BMW's are quite strong. Obviously the 335i is not an M car and is positioned beneath them but the fact it can run with an E55's depending on on the mods and then some is pretty impressive. So not sure what you mean by BMW needs to up their game, their current forced induction offerings are just fine and stronger than Mercedes'.

Originally Posted by mramg1

3. Sorry, I have, and ALWAYS will be a BIG believer in FI, just like my AOL name suggests, LOL

I like FI I just like forced induction with a motor that is efficient without boost as well. Like a supercharger on an M3 for example, like my car.

Originally Posted by mramg1

Anyway not busting your stones my friend, but I am VERY impressed with the new MB, and THANK you BMW for finally seeing the light with FI, IMHO.

Don't think you are busting my balls at all, just a discussion. IMO these moves are for MPG and for lowering costs across the board.

Come on Joe, on #1 is E85 and other things really tuned only? I have a friend on another board that ran 11.78 with an E55 TUNE only. Okay sticky tires, but NO pulley, HE, race gas, etc, etc.

So it ran 11.80 with sticky tires and a tune? I've seen w211 e55's run 12.0 bone stock. Tires and tune didnt really do that much it seems...Whereas with an N54 car, its possible that you can go from being a low 13 second car to around a 12.1 car with just tune and e85. There was a guy a while ago that went 12.0 @ 115 with just a tune and gas, street tires. This was on the old jb3 tune too. Some of these tune+e85 N54 cars are putting out 415whp, which is more or less the same power e55's put down stock, with about 400-500 pounds less weight. Meth/intake filter/tune cars were doing the same thing and same times 2 years ago.

Originally Posted by mramg1

Anyway not busting your stones my friend, but I am VERY impressed with the new MB, and THANK you BMW for finally seeing the light with FI, IMHO.