Related posts:

This entry was posted on Saturday, September 7th, 2013 at 9:00 am and is filed under NZ Politics.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Both comments and pings are currently closed.

This will certainly make it easier to locate the bodies when four 20 stone adults set out to sea in piss poor conditions with a couple of kids in a 10 foot dinghy with no oars, or flares and a 400 year old outboard that has never been maintained.

As usual the idiot journo’s don’t cover the critical facts. Which are, of the boating accident deaths, which of those involved boats that didn’t carry any or enough lifejackets, versus boats where there wasn’t time to put them on?

Because the latter is the only statistic worth considering in this particular measure, and the article talks about a dinghy that capsized, but doesn’t mention whether it was even carrying lifejackets, which one suspects not, given that it’s a simple matter to cling onto the upturned hull and dive underneath to retrieve them.

It’s compulsory to have children in proper child restraints in cars, why should life jackets be any different?

“I will never understand the knee jerk opposition to proposals like this.”

Well you fucking well should because it is exactly this kind of nanny state that undermines personal responsibility and individual independence, and therefore leads to a nation of ninnys.

We do not need fucking regulations imposed by shit for brains MPs of no fucking worth to anyone, we need people to take responsibility for their own actions, and if parliament keeps undermining this need, its no benefit to anyone, kids least of all.

Man I detest these do gooding self serving bastards, and the gormless socialist knuckle draggers who support them.

@ Kowtow,
You are quite right, there is a stupid minority of parents.
But are you saying that kids have no right to be protected from stupid parents?
If you are you could extend the argument to virtually any aspect of child care.

Graeme Edgeler put a good question to Sam Lotu-liga on his twitter feed. Paraphrasing, it was along the lines of: “will the child be required to wear the life jacket when climbing aboard the boat and moving to dive off the side into the water again.”

“Danger, Will Robinson.” It would be very easy to effectively ban some perfectly normal and reasonable recreational pastimes – fun, in other words – through well intended legislation.

I think it’s a good idea.
I think a mandatory boat license would be better, then boaties will have a minimum standard of training and knowledge and be less likely to fuck up in the first place. And have it on the same card as the driving license so if a skipper is done for dic boat they lose the car licene too.
Queensland has both of those and it works fairly well.

As a practicing seagoing boatie I support this measure as until further measures such as licensing all boaties and requiring them to attend classes and pass tests along with penalties for non compliance of simple safety rules we will continue to have the stupid events involving loss of life and countless hours of often volunteer search and rescue.

The point is that boating is no longer a minority activity but all sorts of clowns engage in it and we have the reckless fools with mentalities like Redbaiter who do not bother to spend time learning how to be safe and practice it on the water. So some way of penalising them is needed.

This would be a good first step. A parrellel good thing would be research into lifejackets that are not awkward lumps of flotation obstructing easy movement and catching in ropes rigging etc. While I always wore a lifejacket when using my dingy to get on my yacht it was only in extreme situations did I wear a jacket onbard her but always had a life line attached to the boat.

I also went to polytech to get boatmaster, coastal and ocean going certificates.

As always, this law only applies to those who probably have their kids wear life jackets in all relevant situations anyway. And it probably accidentally catches a whole bunch of situations by accident, once again creating a situation where the law gets ignored and further reducing respect for the law overall.

In short, I’m not sure we need a law for everything. Some things people can work out for themselves.

He’s talking shit. Such platitudes roll easily off the tongue of recently educated brainwashed statists who see bigger government as the solution to every problem, but if you asked him to validate it, he’d be stumped.

Kowtow: “No amount of legislation is going to protect children from stupid parents”

Not sure that is correct. Would school attendance be as great as it is, if schooling wasn’t compulsory? And what about child restraints in cars?

The majority of parents will comply, if they were not already acting responsibly. I agree, though, that there are some parents who are so stupid or irresponsible that nothing will alter their behaviour.

“we have the reckless fools with mentalities like Redbaiter who do not bother to spend time learning how to be safe and practice it on the water.”

That is a an allegation you have no idea of the truth of and you make this smear merely to justify your own sick sad simpleton belief in regulation and big government enforcement as the solution to every perceived problem. A fucking uneducated ignorant of history dumbfuck dragging this country down into the socialist mire with every breath you take, you useless waste of oxygen.

You socialist bastards need to wake up to just how much you’re pissing some people off with your limp dicked crap.

btw, as a tax payer, I also want to be protected from the consequences of avoidable boating tragedies. The cost to the public purse of cleaning up after accidents is huge – 111 services, hospitals, coronial inquests, people left dependent on lifelong benefits etc.

Yes, you can write here with some stupid childish comeback but you can’t address your abjectly unsupported claim that “it works well”. That would require intelligence and resourcefulness. Much easier just to keep spouting distracted rubbish.

Car restraints mandatory,school attendance likewise. Yes and look at the drop kicks of parents who don’t restrain or ensure their children attend school…..that’s my point, a responsible parent will do those without legislation and no amount of legislation will make irresponsible parents do the right thing.

God knows the failing tail in this country is huge despite all the legislation.

The proposal by Sam (et al, because others are behind it), is bullshit.

It is aimed almost exclusively at the Pasifika community, the lower socio economic group. This is the same group that fits second hand, often broken, child restraints in their cars, the same group that does not get a warrant of fitness for the car, or bother to re-register them, or get a driving licence. It is the same group that racks up $150 or $200 fines plus penalties for non-payment.
(Confiscating or impounding cars creates more problems)

Why?

Because they (Pasifikas) have other priorities for their limited discretionary spending. I say “limited discretionary spending” because after they have sent money to the rellies still living on Pacific islands, paid outrageous tithes to their Pacific islands Church (of varying kind), supported, to some extent a plethora of unaffordable children, they have bugger all ,money left to buy things like child life jackets and car seats.

No one can argue against the humane intent of the proposal. But obedience will be last in line. Moreover, if their multi-family savings to buy a “tinnie” have been expended, kid’s life jackets will be a nonstarter. It will otherwise be a case of going to the beach for a swim and search for shell fish…..with no reduction in drownings.

Bah and humbug. I loathe ‘life jackets’ – on two occasions their bulk has nearly killed me when I would have been much safer without them.

Once when a raft on a river collided with a submerged log and I found myself wedged by the jacket I was wearing underwater, another time when tossed into water while yachting and being unable to escape a toppling mast from falling on me.

And on no other occasion have I found useful need for one.

However… I was on the Wahine a week before it’s famous collision, and I imagine that had I been abandoning that sinking ship and possibly ended up for some time in those rough cold waters wearing a life jacket would have been a fine thing.

It’s an odds thing, like most safety equipment, and the use of it a judgement call.

Like cycling helmets I don’t think requiring them for youth is all bad because it engenders social cooperation to protect the vulnerable, but adults can presumably weigh risks and take responsibility for themselves.

It sounds like a good idea, particularly for those with little experience boating or yachting.

As has been pointed out some people like to dive in the water from a boat that is anchored.

I would have no problem with skippers being heavily fined for not having adequate safety gear on board including enough life jackets. Skippers should also be liable for passengers particularly children not wearing life jackets when they obviously should due to weather conditions. I think Sam Lotu-Iiga should give more thought to the wording of his bill.

Every fucking move you make must be scrutinised by 15 layers of bureaucracy, and covered by 3000 pages of legislation and be covered by poorly written laws enforced by legions of half educated jack booted goons.

This proposal doesn’t go far enough. Lifejackets should also be required when children are at the beach, in or around rivers, swimming in swimming pools (where they should also be required to wear a helmet if they’re jumping off the side or off a board), being driven in any vehicle in the vicinity of water, and when in the bath. Remember, a child can drown in as little as an inch of water so a bath can be a death trap!

(I had a conversation with a tourist at Wellington’s Taranaki Street Wharf dive platform last year. If you haven’t seen it, on a sunny day at the weekend it is complete unsupervised anarchy and possibly the most fun going on in the city. Tourist: “Who is in charge here?” DavidP: “No one.” Tourist: “Well someone could get killed.” DavidP: “They need to be careful then.” Long may personal responsibility and fun live!)

Don’t most responsible people put lifejackets on their kids anyway??
By ‘responsible’ I don’t mean the South Aucklanders who load up their leaky tin boats every weekend with four non-swimming adults, six non-swimming kids and a dog (who may or may not be able to swim)..

Davidp: Yes, beware the excesses that can flow from what were originally good intentions. Witness the cost, inconvenience, reduced amenity value, and pure illogicality generated by the pool fencing regime.

I have changed my mind. Obviously not wearing a life jacket is as dangerous as speeding in a car. Lets go ahead and legislate that anyone caught disobeying this law will be fined and all this dangerous behaviour will come to an end. Or am I missing something?

I agree that this law has many positives, as all children under 15 should be wearing a life jacket on boats. However I also agree with duggledog this law would be hard to police. At the end of the day it comes down to common sense and what parents believe is the right thing to do and as Kowtow said enforcing a law like this isn’t necessarily going to change irresponsible parenting.

It probably should be skipper’s call, but any kid on my boat would be required to wear a life jacket. Given that a skipper is (?should be) liable if something goes wrong, it could end up as de-facto law anyway.
Licensing is a good idea.

We need lifejacket police at EVERY boat ramp. Sign here to confirm you have enough on board + one spare for emrgency.
That will be $10 thankyou – Visa, Eftpos or cash?
Sir, you can not use the ramp until you sign and pay

My Brother drowned when the boat he was sailing capsized. He was a good swimmwer but it was cold and he got cramp. He went under just before a rescuer got to him. If he had been wearing a life jacket he would have survived easily. He was 20. Lifejackets should be compulsory for EVERYONE. If you have ever lost anyone to drowning you would not think about disagreeing. Most posts here are arrogant and stupid written by people who have been lucky so far…….