Why Socialism will never work...

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

3 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose

We all know they are not a communist country and I never said they were, I said communism forced them (and the other Scandinavian countries) to be very Socialist the threat and popularity of communism forced the Governments to offer strong social programs to appease the masses. The threat and growing popularity of Russian backed communist parties were growing at an alarming rate to stay in power concessions had to be made. BS I know you are just playin silly bugger you took this up in HS, as for the other two posters well you know, one is trolling the other is trying to get out of a closet Lol

Yes they are a founding member of NATO mostly due to the threat of Russia either by invasion or by putting a puppet ruler in place.

I have no idea what this means: "you took this up in HS." As for the rest of your post you clearly state that "Russia forced all northern nations into socialism" There is really very little evidence for that. The socialist movement in Europe was strong long before the communists took over Russia.

Most helpful post: The members here have rated this post as best reply.

pgs

Free Thinker

+1

#62

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

3 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister

Irrelevant as usual.

Very relevant . No tickee no laundry .

Twin_Moose

Conservative

+1

#63

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister

I have no idea what this means: "you took this up in HS." As for the rest of your post you clearly state that "Russia forced all northern nations into socialism" There is really very little evidence for that. The socialist movement in Europe was strong long before the communists took over Russia.

High School, and back in the day everyone in HS took up how popular Marxism was, and how influential it was around the world. I provided 2 posts to show how it influenced Norway.

Twin_Moose

Conservative

#64

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid

However they came to socialism they arrived and they have made it work.
We should have it so good.

Yes the populace accepted the current system over the alternative to the East, the best of Marxism with the freedom of democracy, at the cost of only 1/2 their money instead of all their money. If we were under the same pressure I'm sure most of us would agree that 1/2 is better than none, for the freedom to live life.

EagleSmack

+1

#65

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

'Lunch shaming' ban puts Washington state school district $21,000 in debt

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

I hope the parents don't pay their bill it's discriminating, racist, bigoted, against the parents that don't qualify for the free lunch program To top it off a single mother who can't afford her children claiming the program is a god send that's hilarious

Hoid

#67

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose

Yes the populace accepted the current system over the alternative to the East, the best of Marxism with the freedom of democracy, at the cost of only 1/2 their money instead of all their money. If we were under the same pressure I'm sure most of us would agree that 1/2 is better than none, for the freedom to live life.

It is a shame we are not as well run as Norway.

Their oil industry provides cradle to grave healthcare, schooling and much more.

Our provides **** all.

Bar Sinister

No Party Affiliation

#68

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose

High School, and back in the day everyone in HS took up how popular Marxism was, and how influential it was around the world. I provided 2 posts to show how it influenced Norway.

Two posts? I must have missed them. And did you study the evolution of democratic socialism, a movement that began in Europe before Marx wrote anything about communism? If you study the democratic socialist movement you would realize that it was in competition with communism, not an offshoot. There were definite connections between Western European communism and the USSR, an connection most Norwegians rejected.

Socialism in Scandinavia is referred to as the Nordic Model. Here is an article explaining it.

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

The resourcefulness and sheer toughness of the Finns was crucial in overcoming the communist threat. The Social Democrats (unlike in eastern Europe) were quite effective in infiltrating the communist ranks and in actively opposing communist policies.
The Constitution of 1919 enabled the president and parliament to block extreme cabinet policies and even allowed the president to dismiss cabinet members. The communists were soon voted out and removed (if they refused to leave) from the cabinet. The State Police were disbanded at this time, removing a considerable threat even though the army and the regular police were beyond communist influence.
Also, the communists were weakened by leadership rights while the trade unions grew increasingly anti-communist. From this evidence it seems highly unlikely that the communists could have won without full-scale intervention by the Soviet military - a price the Soviets were apparently unwilling to pay in light of the reparations, trade benefits and commitment to neutrality offered by the Finnish democrats. <9>
It was the greatly embellished independence resulting from the democratic victory that probably enabled the Finns to negotiate a favorable Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance (or FCMA). In fact, the Finns actually wrote most of it themselves. <10>

By the 1920s, social democracy and communism had become the two dominant political tendencies within the international socialist movement.[36] By this time, socialism emerged as "the most influential secular movement of the twentieth century, worldwide. It is a political ideology (or world view), a wide and divided political movement"[37] and while the emergence of the Soviet Union as the world's first nominally socialist state led to socialism's widespread association with the Soviet economic model, some economists and intellectuals argued that in practice the model functioned as a form of state capitalism[38][39][40] or a non-planned administrative or command economy.[41][42] Socialist parties and ideas remain a political force with varying degrees of power and influence on all continents, heading national governments in many countries around the world. Today, some socialists have also adopted the causes of other social movements, such as environmentalism, feminism and progressivism.[43]

Quote:

The modern definition and usage of "socialism" settled by the 1860s, becoming the predominant term among the group of words "co-operative", "mutualist" and "associationist", which had previously been used as synonyms. The term "communism" also fell out of use during this period, despite earlier distinctions between socialism and communism from the 1840s.[50] An early distinction between socialism and communism was that the former aimed to only socialise production while the latter aimed to socialise both production and consumption (in the form of free access to final goods).[51] However, Marxists employed the term "socialism" in place of "communism" by 1888, which had come to be considered an old-fashion synonym for socialism. It was not until 1917 after the Bolshevik Revolution that "socialism" came to refer to a distinct stage between capitalism and communism, introduced by Vladimir Lenin as a means to defend the Bolshevik seizure of power against traditional Marxist criticisms that Russia's productive forces were not sufficiently developed for socialist revolution.[52]

Quote:

A distinction between "communist" and "socialist" as descriptors of political ideologies arose in 1918 after the Russian Social-Democratic Labour Party renamed itself to the All-Russian Communist Party, where communist came to specifically mean socialists who supported the politics and theories of Leninism, Bolshevism and later Marxism–Leninism,[53] although communist parties continued to describe themselves as socialists dedicated to socialism.[54]

Quote:

Second International
As the ideas of Marx and Engels took on flesh, particularly in central Europe, socialists sought to unite in an international organisation. In 1889 (the centennial of the French Revolution of 1789), the Second International was founded, with 384 delegates from twenty countries representing about 300 labour and socialist organisations

Quote:

By 1917, the patriotism of World War I changed into political radicalism in most of Europe, the United States and Australia. Other socialist parties from around the world who were beginning to gain importance in their national politics in the early 20th century included the Italian Socialist Party, the French Section of the Workers' International, the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party, the Swedish Social Democratic Party, the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party, the Socialist Party of America in the United States, the Argentinian Socialist Party and the Chilean Partido Obrero Socialista.

Quote:

The Nordic model is the economic and social models of the Nordic countries (Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Finland). During most of the post-war era, Sweden was governed by the Swedish Social Democratic Party largely in cooperation with trade unions and industry.[151] In Sweden, the Social Democratic Party held power from 1936 to 1976, 1982 to 1991, 1994 to 2006 and 2014 to present. Tage Erlander was the leader of the Swedish Social Democratic Party and led the government from 1946 to 1969, an uninterrupted tenure of twenty-three years, one of the longest in any democracy. From 1945 to 1962, the Norwegian Labour Party held an absolute majority in the parliament led by Einar Gerhardsen who was Prime Minister with seventeen years in office. This particular adaptation of the mixed market economy is characterised by more generous welfare states (relative to other developed countries), which are aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy, ensuring the universal provision of basic human rights and stabilising the economy. It is distinguished from other welfare states with similar goals by its emphasis on maximising labour force participation, promoting gender equality, egalitarian and extensive benefit levels, large magnitude of redistribution and expansionary fiscal policy.[152]

So you can see the Nordic Model is certainly heavily influenced by communism and Russia the Labor party is an offshoot of the communist party.

Last edited by Twin_Moose; 2 weeks ago at 11:44 AM..

Jinentonix

No Party Affiliation

+2

#70

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid

It is a shame we are not as well run as Norway.
Their oil industry provides cradle to grave healthcare, schooling and much more.

Oh, so you're pro-oil now?
Yep, oil is evil horrible stuff, unless you're Norway. Then your oil industry gets a free pass from the ALT-leftards because it provides cradle to grave health care, schooling and oh so much more. Hmmmm I wonder if their oil industry requires the lighting of tiki torches and "White natty" chants to keep the oil flowing. Moron

Well gosh Sport-o, how well do you think they're going to fair when oil is ultimately phased out as you keep saying it will be?

Bar Sinister

No Party Affiliation

#71

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose

Yep and the Nordic model was heavily influenced by Communism especially under Russian threats but watered down to mean mix of capitalism meeting socialism (welfare state anyone)

So you can see the Nordic Model is certainly heavily influenced by communism and Russia the Labor party is an offshoot of the communist party.

No I don't see. There is nothing in anything that you posted to suggest that Norway was intimidated into being socialist. You might as well claim that the CCF in Canada was created due to Russian influence.

Bar Sinister

No Party Affiliation

#72

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Jinentonix

Oh, so you're pro-oil now?
Yep, oil is evil horrible stuff, unless you're Norway. Then your oil industry gets a free pass from the ALT-leftards because it provides cradle to grave health care, schooling and oh so much more. Hmmmm I wonder if their oil industry requires the lighting of tiki torches and "White natty" chants to keep the oil flowing. Moron

Well gosh Sport-o, how well do you think they're going to fair when oil is ultimately phased out as you keep saying it will be?

Actually Norway will do fine. Unlike most oil rich nations it has banked almost all of its oil revenue due to the assumption that the oil riches would eventually run out. As a result it has an enormous oil fund of about one trillion dollars. Alberta could have chosen to do something similar, but its political leaders were not quite so far-sighted.

Twin_Moose

Conservative

#73

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister

No I don't see. There is nothing in anything that you posted to suggest that Norway was intimidated into being socialist. You might as well claim that the CCF in Canada was created due to Russian influence.

And they weren't communist influenced which were inspired by the appearance of success in the USSR?

From the link posted in # 49

Quote:

Marxist–Leninist communist party in Norway.
It was formed in 1923, following a split in the Norwegian Labour Party. The party was pro-Stalinist from its establishment and as such supported the Soviet Union and its government, while opposing Trotskyism. During the Second World War, the party initially opposed active resistance, due to the non-aggression pact between the Soviet Union and Germany. After Germany terminated the pact and entered into war with the Soviet Union, the Communist Party of Norway engaged in resistance to the German occupation, and the party experienced a brief period of political popularity in some segments of society in the years immediately after the war.

Last edited by Twin_Moose; 2 weeks ago at 10:31 AM..

pgs

Free Thinker

+1

#74

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose

And they weren't communist influenced which were inspired by the appearance of success in the USSR?

From the link posted in # 49

Communism was a very popular concept here in Canada in the 1920 and 1930ís . World War Two cooled that off .

Twin_Moose

Conservative

#75

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Like BS pointed out that the CCF were a glaring example of it, Tommy Douglas is post WWII by a decade or 2 and he almost succeeded in Sask. He was successful in influencing Socialism in Canada as well.

MHz

#76

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by pgs

Communism was a very popular concept here in Canada in the 1920 and 1930ís . World War Two cooled that off .

WWII was a Rothschild program rather than it being communist values at work. That is common knowledge these days so why is it news to you??

DaSleeper

+1

#77

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

It's always the Joos with you...Take your pills FOOL!

MHz

#78

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose

Like BS pointed out that the CCF were a glaring example of it, Tommy Douglas is post WWII by a decade or 2 and he almost succeeded in Sask. He was successful in influencing Socialism in Canada as well.

Do you know how the Social Credit Party got into power for about 20 years straight 'where they could do no wrong'?? Hint they paid off all private debt. Natural resources was how the money was paid back to the banks and they made a killing on the deal and still are so the 'bribe' killed Alberta's 'independence via oil', pennies on the dollar through deceptive practices.
Not my idea of a role model for anything but what shouldn't be done to the 'masses'.

Twin_Moose

Conservative

#79

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Yep I live here and apart of the generation that broke the NDP hold on the province, how about you?

MHz

#80

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

You're too big of an asshole to have your roots in the west. An import keeps the traits they have when they ass arrives here.
I like this guy but he isn't 'from the west'.

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose

And they weren't communist influenced which were inspired by the appearance of success in the USSR?

From the link posted in # 49

Read your own source. "Communist Party of Norway engaged in resistance to the German occupation, and the party experienced a brief period of political popularity in some segments of society in the years immediately after the war."

That hardly sounds like Norway was forced to become socialist. In fact how do you force a democracy to move one way or the other when there is a free vote? I suspect you may be confusing Norway with Finland, which was forced more or less at gunpoint, to become a Soviet ally up until the collapse of the USSR.

Twin_Moose

Conservative

#82

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

The Labour party was an offshoot of the communist party read the links

Hoid

#83

Re: Why Socialism will never work...

2 weeks ago

Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose

Like BS pointed out that the CCF were a glaring example of it, Tommy Douglas is post WWII by a decade or 2 and he almost succeeded in Sask. He was successful in influencing Socialism in Canada as well.