Here me out. We know that GH causes the intestines to grow and that guys who have huge guts, like Ronnie, Jean-Pierre Fux and Markus Ruhl, all took a lot of GH. But saying that their guts are caused by GH is not plausible for one reason: GH also causes the extremeties to grow, and these men don't have enlarged hands, fingers and cranium. Therefore I believe that it is possible that their huge guts are caused by too much food distanding the stomach walls.

Even in the off-season, the pros eat semi-clean. That means a lot of red meat, eggs, rice, potatoes and so on and so forth. Yes, they eat junk food but it is a minor part of their diet. Contrary to what that imbecile, GH15, says, the pros do not eat all junk food in the off-season. It is impossible to build muscle on nothing but junk foood even if you eat 6,000 calories a day. And here is the thing: 6,000 calories of semi-clean food is a LOT of food. It is perfectly possible that their distended stomach is caused by eating a high volume of food at once which is conditione sine qua non for taking 6,000 calories of semi-clean food a day. I remember that I used to drink a lot of tea and soda and after a few years my stomach was distended, so it possible that their distended guts are caused by food and not drugs.

i only read the title...i will just make sure you all understand the truth behind the gut and then you can go on with the balonie,,

the gut on a bodybuilder come from the INTRODUCTION OF INSULINAAAAAA to the body

insulina take everything you eat and PUSHES IT INTO THE MUSCLE.....no one of us sit and eAT 8000 calories a day ,,the biggest among us eat 4000-4500 and thats on a good day!,,

we use insulina and it PUSHES AND MAKE THE BODY ABSORB RATHER THAN SHITTTTTTT the food we eat,,most of it....

now will insulina work by itself? ABSOLITLY NOT! insulina by itself wil get any one of you FAT,,i dont care how big you think you are,, it is all fat! but ! the magic with insulina happen when you introduced it to the body while the body is saturated with a hormone called H G H ,,

when you have a base intake of hgh....you can eat your mama and papa with not clean food,,you can take any product you want under the sun ...and you will not get fat infact you will get lean ,,most of you sit now infront of your computer and say oh ya ya so how commmme i look blooofy when i eat what i want and take any product i want and any dose i want....,,,the reason you look blooofy is because what made you bloooooofy is WATER RETENTION not fat..you cant get fat on hgh,,you only lose fat...the END

now,,as with everything the higher the doses of other products ...the higher the hgh doses will HAVE TO BE,,inorder to keep eveyrthing in balance,,now! this! is the tricky part...this is where most bodybuilder get the gut growing and growing,, notice the coach ...no gut.. look like local but no gut...look at mindspin in his glory days lol ..do you see gut? nope no gut,,,look at bobbie when he got into pro card...do you see a fuckin gut? hell no you dont see a gut,,look at any bodybuild that is amatuer with out approach to high doses of hgh and insulina...do you see stavip walking around with gut? hell no he doesnt have on..do you see the fella leaf from this board walking around with gut? ummm nope sure dont,,did you see frank zane with a gut? hell no you didnt...even haney weighin 240lb had very little to no gut...

the gut come from ABUSE OF INSULINA not foooood,,,INSULINA ADDED TO HGH ,,ON HGH BYITSELF NO GUT PERIOD,,,WHEN YOU ADD INSULINA AND PUSH ALL THE FOOD INTO THE MUSCLE...YOU ALSO PUSH ALL THE FAT INTO THE MUSCLE,,AND YES HGH GETS YOU LEAN BUT IT DOESNT GET THE ACTUAL MUSCLE FROM WITHINNNNNNNN LEAN ...IT GETS YOU LEAN AS IN BETWEEN MUSCLE AND SKIN ,,, IT REDUCES THE SUB FAT INTO WHERE IT SHOULD BE AND ITS SUB 6 PERCENT,,,

but the insulina causes you to blow up from within and keep the sub bodyfat low.....so wher edoes the fat go? the fat the hgh melts.....it fuckin go to the fuckin muscle you have on you ,,,,so the muscle grow it grow from water from within ,,,from fat from within ,,from aas ,,,from seo with some ,,and....at the same time the abdominal wall grows too same exact way ,,,,

on top of that you have the igf fellas who really really really ruin bodybuilding,,and thats what farah try to make them not do ,,he try to make them NOT use igf....thats why he is a genious... the addition of igf to the insulina and hgh ,,really really grow mostly one and only one thing....see shari kamali ,,that thing is called G U T

thats how it is friends,,

its the insulina and later on igf that causes the growth ,,drinking does not! help....if you have tenency to pot belly its not helping your situation ,,,,

avoid insulina by any means when it comes to high doses,,and completely never ever touch igf ,,,the body need to create its own igf from the hgh in the liver,,you dont give him no igf directly because you will create abnoralities such as palumbos,,those abnormalities stay when you become small later on my friend,, so be careful with that...in general im not worried about igf because most of what you get is bunk ,,but just telling the all bodybuilders who have contact and get the real thing...be very careful ..you saw kai ,,you saw what happened to him,,igf will ruin your physiqe,,insulina will just get you to a point that if you are not freaky in every muscle group ...you will look like a joke aka shari kamali and marus haley and many many many more,,

good luck

gh15 approved

My god, phaggot, why did you have to come ruin my thread? I do not want you here. Fuck off, please. You are a troll with a copy of "The Steroid Bible" or "Anabolic Review" making fun of how gullible many Getbiggers are. STFU. Seriously. Go away, you fucking turd. I am asking you.

Ha ha ha ha...ok, kid. Let me ask you a question: How many blow jobs do you give to your dealer for each vial of finaject he supplies you? You are a kid with a copy of "The Steroid Bible" or "Anabolic Review" taking advantage of how stupid many Getbiggers are. As for 1 inch being one centimeter, that's what you tell yourself to feel better every time you measure your dick with a metric ruler.

Here Hear me out. We know that GH causes the intestines to grow and that guys who have huge guts, like Ronnie, Jean-Pierre Fux and Markus Ruhl, all took a lot of GH. But saying that their guts are caused by GH is not plausible for one reason: GH also causes the extremeties to grow, and these men don't have enlarged hands, fingers and cranium. Therefore I believe that it is possible that their huge guts are caused by too much food distanding the stomach walls.

Even in the off-season, the pros eat semi-clean. That means a lot of red meat, eggs, rice, potatoes and so on and so forth. Yes, they eat junk food but it is a minor part of their diet. Contrary to what that imbecile, GH15, says, the pros do not eat all junk food in the off-season. It is impossible to build muscle on nothing but junk foood even if you eat 6,000 calories a day. And here is the thing: 6,000 calories of semi-clean food is a LOT of food. It is perfectly possible that their distended stomach is caused by eating a high volume of food at once which is conditione sine qua non for taking 6,000 calories of semi-clean food a day. I remember that I used to drink a lot of tea and soda and after a few years my stomach was distended, so it possible that their distended guts are caused by food and not drugs.

"Suck my muscle", you directly attacked him, you knew he would appear. On top of that, he agrees with your insulin(a) assumption. You are basically disagreeing on the subject matter of what kind of calories one eats. I don't have the HGH/insulin/junk food experience, but I do have the Michael Phelps type experience, I just don't agree with the calorie count, at least not the consistency.

Also, the huge gut--this is why I can't stand watching Dorian do his leg presses in the "Blood and Guts" video. Think of it "Guts"-- ha ha. He tries so hard to keep his shirt down and it so alien looking. That big-ass ripped-to-the-bone gut.

It is so fucking wierd.

BTW, do you think he really meant "Blood and GUTS to be construed as HGH/Insulin gut?

j/k

Can you imagine these guys today trying to "vacuum pose?" They would shit their drawers!

milos in a 09 radio interview claimed the mass oral steroids guys taking is causing the gut

Not the gut, the guts we see today, but they can contribute for sure.

Orals can cause distension. As do injectables, maybe not to the same extent as orals but many bodybuilders will testify steroids alone can cause a little distention.

Bodybuilders do have bigger than average organs, I think Milos said in that same interview that every one of us has a big liver (I'm sure he's right)(I think he referred to some bb being alarmed because his liver was "big" in a scan). I'm sure just being obese and overfeeding will lead to a big liver for example, just like those geese in France when they forcefeed them.

Overfeeding, especially with insulin = big gut.

PS. suckmymuscle is a complete retard. This guy not only does not know drugs, he doesn't even know basic training. He if anyone is 100% google "knowledge".

Nowadays many many pros take drol precontest and it gives your torso a weird bloated look.

Had a buddy who ran GH year round and he always looked fantastic, when he added drol suddenly his stomach blew up. He refused to come off though, loved being so strong way too much, and ran it year round. Still does to this day. I'd say he ran Drol a good three years with only small breaks here and there with GH.

Also I recall reading that "roid gut" was common going way back when, I had a muscle magazine from 1994 showing some picture of steroid side effects and roid gut was listed with some pictures. It also mentioned anadrol being the #1 culprit. Given that the magazine was from 1994 (had to be musclemag I think) that means the info and pictures were much older, 1993 or older, and I do not think bodybuilders were all abusing GH slin and drol at that time, but all were messing with Drol and some GH so I think it is that combination that is doing it.

I swear it is not the insulin but rather the anadrol/ GH combo. The slin MI

I don't think insulin causes gut distension at all. I have relatives who are diabetic and take insulin for years and they are very skinny with fat stomachs. GH does cause the gut to grow by increasing the size of the intestines. The guts can only be caused by GH or food, one of the two.

its because of going wild with the insulin gh combo (yes , more than 6i.u. + 20 i.u LOL)

but overeating is the "training" to stimulate the gut growth same as lifting for the muscles

fux is a prime example , he was "eating" such big amount of food, it was redicoulus, im mean 3-4 pizzas in 15 minutes must tens out a gut and stimulate some growth with this gh+slin enviroment around

eating alone doesnt cause a such big gut, because in the 80s some pros were known for eating enormous amount of food to (kawak) and didn t have such a BASE DRUM

Kawak had a barrel torso as well.

Look at Jay, he has kept his guy down and look how hard he eats. Meaning, plain bland food all day all year. Keeps his diet clean and zero surplus calories, the man is in full control year round. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Here me out. We know that GH causes the intestines to grow and that guys who have huge guts, like Ronnie, Jean-Pierre Fux and Markus Ruhl, all took a lot of GH. But saying that their guts are caused by GH is not plausible for one reason: GH also causes the extremeties to grow, and these men don't have enlarged hands, fingers and cranium. Therefore I believe that it is possible that their huge guts are caused by too much food distanding the stomach walls.

Even in the off-season, the pros eat semi-clean. That means a lot of red meat, eggs, rice, potatoes and so on and so forth. Yes, they eat junk food but it is a minor part of their diet. Contrary to what that imbecile, GH15, says, the pros do not eat all junk food in the off-season. It is impossible to build muscle on nothing but junk foood even if you eat 6,000 calories a day. And here is the thing: 6,000 calories of semi-clean food is a LOT of food. It is perfectly possible that their distended stomach is caused by eating a high volume of food at once which is conditione sine qua non for taking 6,000 calories of semi-clean food a day. I remember that I used to drink a lot of tea and soda and after a few years my stomach was distended, so it possible that their distended guts are caused by food and not drugs.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

L0L Y0U REALLY BELIEVE IT'S THE F00D? Y0U ARE CLUELESS. 6,000 CALS A DAY WILL N0T CAUSE A GUT LIKE THAT. THE F00D D0SEN'T STAY IN THE ST0MACH Y0U IDI0T.

The Big Gut: Are Excess GH and Insulin to Blame? Written by Dan Gwartney, M.D. Sunday, 15 February 2009

A lot has already been said over the last two decades about the decline of symmetry and aesthetics in bodybuilding. Traditionally, elite level bodybuilders were graced with Olympian lines, similar to the figures Michelangelo and other classical artists and sculptors carved and drew in places of worship. These visages were gradually replaced in the late 1980ís with more exaggerated physiques, and in some cases big guts!

The Foundation Principles The big gut has not escaped the notice of the leadership of the IFBB who recently posted a mandate dictating a change in judging criteria.1 Recalling the founding principles on which the sport of bodybuilding was created, the IFBB is reaffirming the significance of balance, proportion and classic attributes such as the ďVĒ-taper and a flat, muscular abdomen. The mandate didnít state what pressures may have incited the de facto change in judging criteria, but noted that distended abdomens and distorted muscles negatively impact symmetry and natural aesthetics, detracting from the overall physique.

As the mandate clearly comments on the proliferation of distended abdomens and the distorted muscles that have become the hallmark of contemporary bodybuilders, itís important for competitive bodybuilders to understand the potential causes for this appearance. There have been numerous message board discussions debating the relative contribution of a number of factors, some with merit and others without. Muscle distortion likely refers to the unnatural lumps and bulges appearing in the muscle bellies from the use of inflammatory compounds such as nolotil and synthol.2,3 Injecting these compounds causes the muscle tissue to swell around the area of the injection depot. Done properly, this can lead to significantly enlarged muscle, but poor technique can lead to unsightly lumps, suggesting a golf ball-sized tumor is growing in the deltoid or biceps.

Abdominal distension is a completely separate issue. Younger followers of bodybuilding may not be aware of the classical appearance, which personified the golden era of the sport. Bodybuilders used to appear as heavily muscled athletes, gracefully portraying the images adorning Greek temples or the fantasy artwork of Boris Vallejo.4 During the later half of the 1980ís, changes began to appear in the professional bodybuildersí physique, culminating in the look now dominating the field of competitors. Gone are the days when the waistline of a bodybuilder was waspishly tiny, replaced by abdominal girths equaling the titanic proportions of the chest and upper back. When the trophies are handed out and the champions receive back-slapping hugs from other competitors, it looks more like a tachi-ai charge in a sumo match. Yet, unlike their sumo counterparts, todayís bodybuilders are extremely lean, even more so than their more aesthetic forebears.

Despite the prodigious guts, which look capable of launching a reptilian creature, like a scene from the movie ďAlien,Ē the skin is so thin and subcutaneous fat so low that muscles, veins and tendons are readily apparent. Those in the know are aware of the direct causes of abdominal distension, while others guess. Itís important to dispel irrelevant factors, as they serve only to confuse the issue. The abdominal distension seen in todayís bodybuilders isnít due to intestinal gas, obesity due to overeating or use of powerlifting movements. Todayís bodybuilders are very sophisticated in regard to diet and itís extremely unlikely that any, let alone every pro would be downing grams of maltitol or fiber laxatives immediately before walking on stage. As was stated earlier, the bodybuilders of today have extremely low subcutaneous body fat. The guts arenít due to generalized obesity. In the off-season, many of these athletes relax their standards and tend to accumulate body fat, some to the point of obesity, but this isnít a factor on stage during competition.

Causes for the Big Gut While power movements are still part of the training regimen for many bodybuilders, such moves donít account for the gut. Powerlifters tend to have a more portly appearance, but this is due to higher body fat levels, low aerobic capacity and weakening and/or stretching of the abdominal wall from repeated high intra-abdominal pressure exercises. Powerlifters may also acquire hernias, which can deform the abdominal wall.5 The primary factors leading to the dramatic belly bulging are the abusive levels of GH and insulin use. GH, human growth hormone, was originally provided in very limited supply to dwarf children as it was sourced from the brains of cadavers.6 During the 1970ís, advances in genetic engineering allowed for the relatively unlimited production growth hormone using recombinant technology.7 By the late 1980ís, GH was readily available and being used by athletes in many sports, including football, cycling and bodybuilding.8 GH was found to be effective in promoting connective tissue health, speeding recovery, reducing body fat and enhancing anabolic growth.9

As is the case with most drugs, bodybuilders applied trial and error to determine the optimal dosing schedule of GH for achieving maximum growth. During this time, endorsements and trophies were won by those who achieved the most exaggerated growth. This system of rewards promoted the use of excessively high doses of GH, upward to 36 International Units (IU) per day. Despite the relative benefits of extreme muscular growth, bodybuilders began to develop adverse side effects. For those familiar with the field of endocrinology, the study of hormonesí effects on the body, these side effects were not unexpected. Strange, disfiguring growths of the ears, nose and jaw change facial shape, hands and feet enlarge and the abdomen protrudes being pushed outward by the growth of thoracic (chest) and abdominal (gut) organs.10,11

These features are identical to those experienced by people suffering from the disease acromegaly, which is caused by tumors producing high levels of GH in an unregulated fashion.12 Acromegaly is similar to gigantism, a disease state which begins in childhood, resulting in extreme height and features of acromegaly. The primary difference is the lack of effect of acromegaly on height, as the growth plates of adults are fused, preventing further height changes.

The question might be raised ďWhy use so much GH and could less be used?Ē Itís impossible to say who started using GH, but itís likely the first bodybuilders mimicked the doses used to treat dwarf children who are very short due to GH deficiency. These children are provided weekly with 0.3 milligrams per kilogram (2.2 pounds bodyweight); extrapolating those numbers to massive adult bodybuildersí size results in a daily dose of 15Ė25 IU per day.13

Obviously, some bodybuilders have exceeded even those numbers as the price of GH has dropped with the introduction of Asian imports. The high dose of GH is desirable, or was in the days of size for sizeís sake, because the anabolic effects of GH are dose dependent. The more GH used, the larger the muscles (head, organs, hands and feet) grew.14 However, as has been seen on stage and in the clinical realm, exceeding a reasonable dose of GH can lead to problems.

Studies have shown levels as low as six IU per day can lead to early signs of acromegaly, which include physiological changes (insulin resistance) as well as the disfiguring alterations in appearance.15,16 When GH is low in adults, clinical features are noted, including: central (waist) obesity, weak bones, unhealthy cholesterol and fat levels, reduced muscle, decreased exercise tolerance, depression and anxiety.17,18 These features are resolved with GH replacement therapy, which can be used safely for years if IGF-1 levels are measured to ensure excess hormone isnít being administered.18,19 IGF-1 is a protein growth factor, which is produced in response to GH and is responsible for many of its anabolic effects.

Ironically, though GH provides wonderful benefits up to a point, when itís provided beyond what the body can tolerate, it can induce the disfiguring changes of acromegaly and lead to the development of the metabolic syndrome. The metabolic syndrome is a collection of risk factors relating to poor health and early death.

The Pathway to Ultimate Size The central features of the metabolic syndrome are: obesity (especially intra-abdominal fat), dangerous cholesterol and fat levels in the blood, fatty buildup in the liver, insulin resistance, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes and heart attacks.17 Inflammation has also been suggested to be part of the metabolic syndrome.20 The exceedingly high levels of GH used by some bodybuilders predispose them to symptoms of metabolic syndrome by interfering with the bodyís ability to respond to insulin.19,21 This leads to elevated levels of both insulin and sugar, causing fat cells to grow, making it difficult to break down stored fat and get sugar for energy into the muscle cell. The fat releasing (lipolytic) effect of GH appears to be strong enough to counteract the insulin resistance of fat cells in the subcutaneous layer, but another very important reservoir of fat, the visceral fat surrounding the abdominal organs, grows. As the visceral fat deposit enlarges, physiologic changes occur in the body which make the metabolic syndrome more pronounced, worsen Heart Health and promote cardiovascular disease.22,23

These effects compound the heart-altering effect of anabolic steroids and GH, placing many of these bodybuilders at great risk for a heart attack.24,25

Beyond the gut-bulging effect of GH (acting by increasing heart, liver, spleen and intestine size as well as increasing the visceral fat), thereís also the effect of insulin. Not only do these bodybuilders already have high natural insulin levels due to the GH-induced insulin resistance, but they also administer insulin for its potent anabolic effect.26 Insulin is the primary anabolic hormone of the body, funneling sugar and other nutrients into active tissue and maintaining fat stores for periods of starvation. Though itís less popular now than it was five to 10 years ago, bodybuilders felt taking insulin before meals, along with daily GH injections, was the pathway to ultimate size. In a way, they were right, in that the amount of size put on by these athletes was tremendous. Unfortunately, insulin can lead to a severe hypoglycemic reaction, a potentially fatal drop in blood sugar, which hospitalizes many diabetics every year.27 The use of insulin to induce a fatal hypoglycemic event was implicated in the attempted murder case of tycoon Claus von Bulow, whose wife remains in a coma after 20 years.28 Many others have used insulin as a murder weapon, including serial killer William Archerd of California.29

The size insulin puts on a bodybuilder is not quality size. Muscle growth does occur, especially in the presence of insulin resistance, but fat content is also higher, as is water retention. All fat cells will grow in the presence of insulin, including visceral fat content.30 Bodybuilders can control subcutaneous fat with lipolytic drugs (GH, clenbuterol, etc.) and water retention with diuretics, but visceral fat is very difficult to combat in the setting of insulin resistance. Given the lack of significant additional muscular growth, potential risks and need for additional drugs to counteract the negative effects of insulin, itís falling out of favor.

A big bellyó it has a place in the last trimester of a pregnancy, but not on stage in bodybuilding. The introduction of recombinant human growth hormone and a relative abundance of supply make this the drug of choice to support the anabolic effects of steroids and drop body fat to previously unattainable levels. Unfortunately, the more is better mentality, fueled by the dose-response relationship between GH, IGF-1 and anabolic effects, has lead to an epidemic of as many as three unwanted and dangerous side effects. Chronic overdosing of GH may lead to: 1) growth of the organs of the chest and abdomen causing the ďGH gutĒ look and risking heart failure, 2) facial disfigurement and abnormal growth of the hands, and 3) feet and symptoms of the metabolic syndrome (vascular disease, diabetes and high blood pressure). Adding insulin to the chemical arsenal increases many of these risks, promotes the growth of the visceral (intra-abdominal) fat, increases water retention and exposes bodybuilders to potentially fatal hypoglycemic events.

There really is no place for insulin in a healthy pursuit of bodybuilding. Itís a potent anabolic hormone, but its benefits donít outweigh the risks and the side effect of fat storage and water retention also need to be addressed. GH is being used with great benefit in a broad range of people, including athletes. Many of its benefits can be experienced using much more moderate doses of one to five IU per day, six days per week.9,18,31-33 Itís important to monitor IGF-1 levels to ensure the body isnít being overexposed to GH as each personís need are individualized and may vary over time.32 The benefits of connective tissue healing, fat mobilization and augmenting the anabolic effect of exercise and steroids can be experienced with these lower and more rational doses.9

L0L Y0U REALLY BELIEVE IT'S THE F00D? Y0U ARE CLUELESS. 6,000 CALS A DAY WILL N0T CAUSE A GUT LIKE THAT. THE F00D D0SEN'T STAY IN THE ST0MACH Y0U IDI0T.

Thanks for making a dumbass out of yourself. The food, in very large volumes, dilates the stomach's wall while it is inside it and once dilated it stays that way for a long time. So, the food leaving the stomach makes no difference.

Orals can cause distension. As do injectables, maybe not to the same extent as orals but many bodybuilders will testify steroids alone can cause a little distention.

Bodybuilders do have bigger than average organs, I think Milos said in that same interview that every one of us has a big liver (I'm sure he's right)(I think he referred to some bb being alarmed because his liver was "big" in a scan). I'm sure just being obese and overfeeding will lead to a big liver for example, just like those geese in France when they forcefeed them.

Overfeeding, especially with insulin = big gut.

PS. suckmymuscle is a complete retard. This guy not only does not know drugs, he doesn't even know basic training. He if anyone is 100% google "knowledge".

yup that same interview, think it was heart not liver but regardless he blamed it all on orals

he also said once u come off the organs go back to smaller size

he also said in that interview gh under 10iu a day is a waste for muscle building, he stressed it must be broken into smaller shots thruout the day