Why Nottinghamshire teachers don't need a lesson in how to get tough

I MUST not mess with Michael Gove. I must not mess with Michael Gove. I must not...

You get the picture. One hundred lines for any pupil falling foul of the Education Secretary's plans for a return to traditional classroom discipline. Not only lines but also detention, litter-picking, loss of privileges and running around the playing field.

"The one in three teachers who say they are uncertain about the measures that they can deploy in order to keep order should be reassured by the Government that they have a full range," Mr Gove said on BBC1's The Andrew Marr Show.

"People need to understand that there are consequences if they break the rules."

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But isn't a lot of what Mr Gove is proposing already happening in many schools across the country?

Yes. Anyone who visited the former Greenwood Dale School in Sneinton, for instance, would have seen headmaster Barry Day's zero tolerance approach.

Inappropriate shoes... a skewed necktie... running instead of walking... even the most minor departures were jumped on by keen-eyed staff. There was no let-up on a campus renowned for high behavioural standards.

When Mr Day's team took over the management of Sherwood's failing Hayward School, the corridor leading to the head's study became known as the Green Mile – which in Stephen King's novel and the Tom Hanks movie of that name was the route through Death Row to the electric chair.

Greenwood Dale has become the Nottingham Academy, part of a family of academies run by Mr Day, where the same standards apply.

"The keys to good discipline are, first, clearly stating to children and their parents the standards we are looking for. We have a meeting every July when we make all the rules clear on things like the uniform, haircuts, no logos on coats, using only traditional bags, and so on.

"The second thing is enforcing the rules thoroughly and consistently. And the third thing is offering a good curriculum – kids are more likely to concentrate if their work is appropriate and if their targets are achievable but still stretch them."

"We believe in stressing the consequences of someone's actions, so rather than write out lines we ask pupils to write about what they've done wrong and to write about the consequences."

As for graffiti, the pupils responsible are required to clean it up.

There are litter-picks. And there has been the return of another of the Education Secretary's suggestions: the weekend detention.

"We have a low level of exclusions because we try to deal with our problems internally," says Mr McKeever.

"We can isolate pupils in bungalows, where they have meals away from their mates. There have been cases of people, knowing they were in the bungalows, not coming into school – and the Saturday morning headmaster's detention is for them."

Mr McKeever has known tougher regimes. As a lad he attended a college in the North West where erring pupils were strapped in front of the whole school.

"We don't need corporal punishment – it just makes rebels out of kids," he says. "But the establishment of traditional discipline is what every school needs. Most of what Mr Gove is talking about, good schools already do."

Ivan Wels, representing Notts members of the National Union of Teachers, also believes schools are already applying Michael Gove's disciplinary measures.

"Of course they are," he said. "Teachers are pretty practical people – as far as discipline is concerned, if it works it doesn't really matter."

Mr Wels was critical of the manner of Mr Gove's intervention. "This is education policy by the back door," he said. "There is no discussion, no consultation.

"It's as if he is implying that all these left-inspired namby- pamby teachers are letting things slip and allowing standards to go down – but if anything, pupil behaviour has improved."

Were you punished at school? How? And did it have any effect? E-mail your views to opinion@nottinghampost.com or write to use at Nottingham Post, City Gate, Tollhouse Hill, Nottingham, NG1 5FS.

18 comments

Badger, I was agreeing with what you said even though I doubted your sincerity.
"Vox" what we need is an approach to education which enables children to be numerate and literate at an early stage, as without these skills they are unable to learn the other necessary life skills needed in this modern age. You may scorn learning things by rote but it has stood many millions of people in good stead. I agree that it is not necessary or desirable for children to have to be able to recite the names of kings and queens since 500AD but an appreciation of how this country was formed leads to a better understanding. The need to learn and remember facts is still important, not just the ability to Google for them. The holistic approach you advocate has still left us with many young people lacking in those very basic skills which we need in a modern world. Being able to text and twitter or play with an XBox are not sufficient . Good teaching is about inspiring young people to use the opportunities which are now available and to benefit from them, good teaching, good discipline and good parental support and example can make it happen, politicians can only facilitate.

it means one based on intangible commodities like financial services and data analysis, rather than one based on manufacturing and natural resources, harrystotle. Not so hard to understand if you aren't either (a) thick as the proverbial, or (b) under the delusion that pretending to be as thick as the proverbial makes some kind of inverted-snobbery point.

What Mr Gove fails to appreciate is that in order to enforce tough discipline in schools you must have the support of the parents. The 'good' schools gain that support by selecting the parents I.e. The schools are over subscribed and unsupportive parents risk their child losing their place. This perpetuates the cycle of good schools getting better and the rest continuing to struggle. In those schools where behaviour is an issue, parents are not supportive of the school's behaviour systems and complain when the school tries to discipline their child. The idea that these parents would condone the school making their child pick litter or run around the field is nonsense. Parenting which does not enforce boundaries or encourage self discipline leads to schools becoming the only place where the child hears the word 'no'. Until there is an equal spread of supportive parents across all schools it will be difficult to secure high standards of behaviour for all pupils. As for Sir Barry Day's involvement in Hayward (Haywood) School. Even he could not turn this school around, it ended up in Special Measures and then closed.

"Therefore, we have to have an education system that gives a more holistic learning experience that reflects and information and finance based economy."
What does that even mean ? An information and finance based economy ? Is that like a grass-based football pitch ?

Bill, Michael Gove is an ex-hack who has zero idea of education and the needs of children beyond his own warped prejudice against any kind of learning system that was put in place after 1960. If we wanted children to be able to reel off the names of kings and queens since 500AD then his ideas might work. The thing is, his fantasy educational system only worked when there were manual jobs that less academically inclined people could leave school and prosper in. Those sorts of jobs do not exist anymore. Therefore, we have to have an education system that gives a more holistic learning experience that reflects and information and finance based economy; you simply cannot have one without the other. Gove and his apologists do not seem to understand this, which is a shame, because they could be unwittingly damning a generation to being experts in the history of the British Empire but no idea how to work a computer.

"Good schools have good discipline and good discipline in a bad school will do more than anything else to turn it into a good school." --- EggyEggCup.
While i certainly agree with your first statement, I think that you have to be rather careful over what is cause and what is effect before assuming that imposing discipline is enough to turn around a school. Most teachers, like anybody else, prefer an easier life, which means that they will get themselves a job at the best school that will have them, where teaching would be more enjoyable and less stressful. This means that poor schools will tend to concentrate the weakest teachers (with notable exceptions), and simply changing the disciplinary regime of the school will only change the quality of teaching on a much longer timescale. Certainly not a reason not to do it, but by no means a "magic bullet" for fixing failing schools.

Mr Gove forgot to mention that alongside good classroom discipline there also needs to be good, supportive management. I've watched parents argue with teachers over the behaviour and discipline of their children. Some Headteachers avoid stepping in to support their staff because they don't have the leadership skills and are scared of the parents. No wonder many young teachers leave the profession within five years of qualifying.

Badger I think you speak with tongue in cheek, but would suggest that there are a hard core of very un-supportive parents who need to be left in no doubt that they are damning their children to a life of under achievement. Good teaching can produce amazing results but parental attitude can waste all the public money and hard work that has been devoted to that child. All Mr Gove seems to be doing is suggesting that the proven best practices being used by dedicated teachers is extended to those schools which are, at present, suffering from ill discipline,poor attendance and bullying.