Posted:12th Jun 2001I have never made a certain routine to a piece of music or event and i can't seem to find a reason to. for some reason it seems to take a little bit of the fun and adventure out of the performance. u know like when u u suddenly pull off a wierd but cool move/transition that u didnt think was possible. well maybe this has only happened to me, but what are the real advantages of making a routine other than just going out and free styling it so every preformance (or just sppinning at practice or a party or whatever) is different?

Posted:12th Jun 2001So the venue I perform in more often than not is a Ren Faire. Routines are almost mandatory there since1) I want to know where my body and my poi are going to be at all times. The stage area is small and the audience is close. 2) It is daylight and there is no music. I need to KNOW I look good and not hope and pray. This also helps with timing since there is no musical beat for me.3) We do doubles, he with staff and I with poi. Routines take they guess work out of who will be where and when so no one gets hurt.4) These particular venues feel more comfortable watching you rehearse. Through a routine you are garunteed a level of consistancy that isn't always there when freestyling.5) There is an amazing flow to a well planned routine that just seems to move from one place to the next without a thought or concern.6) At faire we can not close our eyes and zone out, we can't stop for a break. We have to banter, to talk with the audience, to make eye contact.Planned routines allow us to do plot all of these things instead of being lost in a spin.7) Sometimes when I freestyle I forget to do what the audeinces like for what I want to do. With a routine I can be certain to incorporate everything I know the crowds respond to.There is a problem with always routining it ... it is easy to get comfortable with routines and "forget" how to smoothly freestyle, which is something I have been working on.Also with routines it is easier for your safeties to spot for you as well as watch the audience for problems, it is easier for camera people to film you and for the venue to know you won't catch anything on fire.In freestyling people will zone and meld with the music and the poi, which can be very detrimental in a performance since it is easy to lose touch with the things and people around you. Also with a receptive audience there is the tendancy to want to "show off" and to want to push the edge of move difficulty, wanting to hear those "oohs" and "aahs" coupled with nervous energy can lead to bad mistakes. Routines help to curb that. Lastly, when freestyling and you come up with that new move or transition you can stop and say, "cool, I gotta do that again and work on it", when performing you are lucky if you remember what you did when you are done!I think there is a time and a place for both and that both forms of spinning really yield fantastic results.Now, people, before you start jumping in and saying I am wrong, remember this is from my perspective from Ren Faires and stuff. I have also performed at parties freestyle and done both very well and very badly. I just know the venues I perform in feel more comfortable with routines, and truthfully at them, so do I.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted:12th Jun 2001emptyset,Routines can be real cool with multiple ppl pulling 'unison transitions and moves. Some friends and I were doing a class on fire dancing/choreography and just doing butterfly moves with 'one each way' transitions looked fantastic with everyone in time. This plus everything Pele listed above are good reasons to do it.BUT on the flip side, the girl who took the above class is a member of a fire performance troup and one of the other members mentioned that always doing gigs and 'working' ment that she felt she was loosing that whole 'play' aspect. She said she'd just like to freestyle sometimes but having weekly gigs sometimes inhibited her from just 'having a spin'.I guess what ever you want to work towards? I'd love to get a routine down with a group but still love just showing off and having fun with others who show off too Non-Https Image Link

Posted:12th Jun 2001Actually, Pele, I thought that was a very good description of some of the benefits (and a few of the drawbacks) of a set routine.Also, of course, if you're doing a multi-person performance with a set routine, you can interact with your partners in various ways that are nearly impossible in a freestyle (I'm thinking things like deliberately wrapping a poi around a staff, for example.)

Posted:13th Jun 2001While I haven't worked up a routine, and I've only been dipping my toes into pro gigs so far, I will say this:For a paying gig, I think you need to be more in control. That means not cutting loose, not opening yourself up to new transitions that just occur to you but might not work, etc. So, while I don't have a routine, I do try to make sure that I'm performing to music I know really well, where I've got a vague idea of how my performance might flow. There's some room for spontaneity, and if I make a mistake I don't struggly to get my routine back in synch.Funny thing: I had a paid gig on Saturday, and was definitely doing a buttoned-down set. I felt I put on a good show, but I was not letting go. Went to a friend's fire party after that, where I really did let go--a little too much. My fourth set was one set too many that night. Got pretty sloppy.Ultimately I'd like to be so good that I could afford to cut loose more, but until then, I'll keep a lid on it.

Posted:12th Jun 2001my problem is that whenever i try to plan a routine, i have problems remembering what i have to do next! When i free style, i seem to remember almost everything i need to do! weird huh! Non-Https Image Link anyone care to help with how to remember a routine well?------------------My World is a world of one, and in being one they Rave! My World is a Godly World and I am its master!

My World is a world of one, and in being one they Rave! My World is a Godly World and I am its master!

Posted:13th Jun 2001To remember your moves all you have to do is write them down . Then practise each little section , chunk it down , until each bit is solid.I often rehearse with my eyes shut so my muscles 'learn' the sequence.If you are using music you can use particular noises as aural cues/reminders.There is no substitute for practice, practice and practice (including practicing enjoying yourself Non-Https Image LinkAxis.'The meaning of your communication is the response you get'

Posted:13th Jun 2001just read on a dance site that you can get sets of cards (or make them) which have your movements on them, you draw cards at random to make different combinations to set up a practice routine that you might not otherwise had thought of. an interesting idea to try out maybe?Pere

Posted:13th Jun 2001As long as we're chatting music... I haven't had much expereince but I have been a bit disappointed so far with people matching the music to their poi. As an intermediate swing dancer it's ALL about hitting the breaks in the music and doing the "cool move" during the right breaks. Techno/Trance has SUCH an easy structure to follow I'm surprised that people that I have seen (those who are technically FAR superior) haven't used breaks and such. It does look cool to bust out and flow from one cool move to another as fast as you can but it would also be cool to wait for the music to take you there... Just a thought.

Posted:13th Jun 2001For me it depends on the song, whether or not it si highly intenesive or slow and dramatic, how many my body can handle. It also depends on the contract with the venue. However many they will pay for, I will perform. Same goes with all my fire stuff.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted:14th Jun 2001Jessy--In the performances I've been doing, I've been chaining light-ups with another firedancer, so as soon as one person's wicks start going out, the other comes on. If we keep this up and do 2 light-ups each, say, that's 15-20 minutes.I'm not sure what the optimum set length is, and I'm sure it varies depending on the audience, the material, etc. So far the audiences haven't been getting bored, though.

Posted:14th Jun 2001Plazma,I break the music down into the various sections and timings and then work out the moves from there. For each song that I perform to, I have listened to the music and written down the breaks and how long each section goes for (usually in seconds), and then reconstruct it as a whole. This means I can build up quite a few routines for different types of music.This is useful not only for performing, but for practicing in general. There was another thread recently about writing down all your moves and putting them together into a pattern or list of moves for practicing which might also help....A deconstructionist reconconstructionist poier - ade Non-Https Image Link[This message has been edited by Ade (edited 14 June 2001).]

Posted:16th Jun 2001Thanx Ade, and everyone else for their help. Non-Https Image Link I've followed everyones instructions and have a basic routine down, not really for any performance, but more or less just so I have the experience of making one. I used the split beats for my big moves and "sub-routine" section finishers/starters. I also feel more in control of the strings when I have the routine b/c i know where they're supposed to go next! Non-Https Image Link Thanx everyone again! Non-Https Image Link ------------------My World is a world of one, and in being one they Rave! My World is a Godly World and I am its master!

My World is a world of one, and in being one they Rave! My World is a Godly World and I am its master!