E Rock25 - Chuck - Do you think that the low scores of touring pros is detrimentally to the growth of the sport?

Pros only matter to the growth of the sport internally to some extent to show rec players what's possible plus some help by teaching. The high level Pro competition side of the sport is so far off the public radar (few spectators) that I think any anxiety over artificialities like how far players are under par is misplaced and doesn't matter for now and may never matter. It can be fixed instantly if it's deemed necessary if the big money ever flows into the sport. No spectators not scores way under par is what matters to any future big money sponsors.

Let's get back to the OP topic. Buncrs were mentioned but not the type originally designed to add some challenge around the green. One of the original buncr ideas was to mark an area near the basket (or make it an actual sand/gravel trap) maybe kidney bean shaped like a greenside golf sand trap. It would be maybe 30-50 feet long with one edge around 10-15 from the pin and the back edge around 25-35 feet from the pin. If a disc lands in the buncr, the player moves back from the pin on the line of play to the edge of the buncr. There's no penalty other than a longer putt. It works almost the same way as a ball golf green that has a slope on one side of the hole where the ball can't sit but will roll away if your approach/putt lands in the sloped area.

Chuck I mentioned the BunCR concept during a debate about what to do regarding a troublesome green for a C-tier at Nockamixon...it would have worked wonderfully here....but the pros all looked at me like I was a moron or in outerspace and I couldn't get half way through the explanation before everyone told me to shut up.....I think it's a good idea but it's too foreign a concept to most players and as simple as it is falls into the typical category disc golfers bitch about.......everything. LOL

It was used on the Highbridge Gold course hole 2 during PW2007 and I presume it's still there. So it's not like it's never been used in high level play. It was also used in the original Players Cup but those may have been the drop zone version of buncrs. If you have trouble explaining it at Nocky, just say it's a casual relief area where you have to take it. That's all those buncrs really are is a forced casual relief area which is why buncr is spelled that way.

Another place I've seen it used even though it wasn't called a buncr is steep slopes like some of those around baskets at Renny including 18 in the distance in the picture upthread. The hillside is marked at the top and bottom such that if your disc lands on the slope, you move to the bottom. In some cases, like Renny ,it's OB there. In others like at Stoney Hill, it's no penalty like a buncr.

I will agree the basket in an empty field might be hardest basket to sink the putt on.....I think its due to putting scenarios on such baskets being stretched out further away than the traditional 10-15m green area. Those wide open holes have always left me further away from the basket than I intended due to lack of a viual aiming point and I'm left with that 50-100 feet ft approach/putt grey zone....ok I lied its more like 40-100 ft lol

My thoughts are as follows...
slopes are ok.....the steeper the slope the more relatively safe landing zone is required nearby
OOB is ok...even if a few feet from the water as long as there's a place to lay-up
trees are ok....baskets in tree jail offer chances to straddle around or shape putts in the air
elevated baskets are ok....they add a true risk/reward for longer putts
maintained hedgerows/bushes are great near the basket they make placement & recovery interesting
I also think a wide open green in a windswept field is very underrated

I am not a fan of thorns or schule or high grass or vines or kudzu etc... anywhere near the basket. Getting to the green should be a reward and the bad I lost my disc shots should be reserved for bad fairway drives or shots off the tee and not for missed putts.

Another thing to consider is too many of the above variables on one green is too much.....an elevated basket atop a windswept slope with a deep lake at the base of said hill and a few skinny tall plinko trees near the basket that is surrounded by bushes forcing a longer putt might be ok on a 150 foot hole but other than that it's just too much difficulty and the ratio of skill/luck starts to get compromised. (Fred Salaz and Stan McDaniel might like it)

Everything being considered for me it comes down to making the putting area a combination of these things...beauty, strategy, uniqueness, risk/reward, teste of nerves/skill and perhaps a smidge of luck

My thoughts are as follows...
slopes are ok.....the steeper the slope the more relatively safe landing zone is required nearby
OOB is ok...even if a few feet from the water as long as there's a place to lay-up
trees are ok....baskets in tree jail offer chances to straddle around or shape putts in the air
elevated baskets are ok....they add a true risk/reward for longer putts
maintained hedgerows/bushes are great near the basket they make placement & recovery interesting
I also think a wide open green in a windswept field is very underrated

I am not a fan of thorns or schule or high grass or vines or kudzu etc... anywhere near the basket. Getting to the green should be a reward and the bad I lost my disc shots should be reserved for bad fairway drives or shots off the tee and not for missed putts.

Another thing to consider is too many of the above variables on one green is too much.....an elevated basket atop a windswept slope with a deep lake at the base of said hill and a few skinny tall plinko trees near the basket that is surrounded by bushes forcing a longer putt might be ok on a 150 foot hole but other than that it's just too much difficulty and the ratio of skill/luck starts to get compromised. (Fred Salaz and Stan McDaniel might like it)

Everything being considered for me it comes down to making the putting area a combination of these things...beauty, strategy, uniqueness, risk/reward, teste of nerves/skill and perhaps a smidge of luck