I think.....Steam almost single-handedly saved PC gaming. There's other players now, but they wouldn't be what they are without Steam paving the way. Most of us are spoiled at this point, and probably forget how much work it used to be. I've got close to 130 games in my Steam library right now. With the size of modern games, we're looking at easily 190+ discs that I'd have to sit and shovel in while going through the prompts. That's DAYS of work. Even worse is trying to get your games patched and running the current version. For that, you have to go to the website for each game, and do a chinese fire drill treasure hunt (while the Benny Hill song plays) to find the hidden link to the most recent patches (which often have to be installed sequentially) assuming they've actually been posted and have a working link.

Once you've experienced all of that pure bliss, you get the further joy of trying to play against a friend who's running a different version because they haven't patched yet. YES!! Wait, you also get to use 13 different kinds of DRM, and are forced to put a in the disc in the tray each time you play. YES!!!! That's so much better than copying over your backed-up Steamapps folder and walking away. Also way better than having all of your games automatically update for you and all your friends.

Heck, nearly all paid applications have some form of DRM (or a subscription model) these days; they mainly vary in the degree of intrusiveness/inconvenience. You've basically got three (legal) options:

1. Put up with it.

2. Vote with your wallet and buy only from vendors who use less draconian forms of DRM.

3. Run Open Source software instead, in those cases where there's an Open Source alternative available.

Oh, and I agree Steam probably saved PC gaming. With the rise of consoles and the heated competition for retail shelf space and mindshare (both developers and users) which ensued, something had to give.

1.) Sit down at PC in Somewheretown, USA, for a rousing online FPS battle following the dinner hour. Discover you can't play the game on any server because an important patch or update has been released. Nuts, should have been following the gamer websites a little more closely.2.) Try to connect to any of several popular gaming websites to figure out what you need. Get nonstop timeouts due to server overload.3.) After pinging different websites for an hour, finally get enough response to determine what the official update filename should be.4.) Enter filename into AltaVista search (later, Google) and hope to find a couple obscure update mirrors that aren't completely hosed. Open results in 15+ discrete browser windows.5.) A few minutes later, shut down all but the six browser sessions that didn't time out. It's roughly 0200 hours local time (plus or minus a couple) in various parts of Europe right now, so let's try a download each from the UK, Germany, Sweden, and Poland. These will be very slow, but hopefully at least one complete copy will finish overnight.6.) Wake up next morning with fingers still crossed, check download status. Two of the download attempts failed partway. But success! One of the copies finished. Another one of them still has an hour to go and is presumably unneeded, but the cruel hand of experience says we should leave that one alone, just in case.7.) Launch updater. "Error: The archive within FavoriteGameUpdate.exe is corrupted. Cannot continue." Crap. Wait another hour for the other download to finish.8.) Success! The second patch is clean. Complete the update.9.) Launch GameSpy. Oops, half of your Favorites list haven't finished running the server-side update yet. Well, how about these over here? 3/32 players...huh, apparently the other 20-25 who would typically be there are still trying to get the update. Join anyway for the chatbox conversation, because there won't be much gameplay until at least that evening, possibly not even until sometime the next day.

The cloud model, notably because of Steam, did away with this nonsense. Good riddance to the bad old way and welcome to Steam, ronch!

ronch wrote:What are your thoughts? Do you hate Steam too and are just putting up with it?

Steam is awesome.

Let me give you just one example... Last year my gaming system died - hard crash, no recovery. I got my new system up and running, and then I installed Steam and logged into my machine. Every game I owned that was associated with Steam appeared in my library, whether I had bought them on Steam or installed via DVD/CD and then connected to Steam. All I had to do was right-click and select "Install" the ones I wanted to install, went out for a while, and when I came back all my games are there. No fumbling with discs, no looking for CD keys - they just download.

Games are always kept up to date. And in most cases, the time you have to wait for a patch to finish is far less than when you had to do that manually.

Of course, you can disable the automatic patching and whatever, but really unless you are worried about hitting a data limit with your ISP there is no point.

Aside from that, there are TONS of really good deals on Steam; it's not uncommon to see games at 30% or 40% off what they're selling for in stores on DVD; and in some cases even better. There are lots of demos available so that you can try games before you buy them. There is a huge selection, including a lot of independent games.

ronch wrote:Where I live our internet connection is approximately 5 bits per second.

That is very unfortunate, but I'm sure you can do something about it - move to some other location, petition your local government for better internet access, get a satellite broadband (from Exede or some other company), etc. You also have a choice of NOT downloading any updates, but I'm sure you'd rather prefer playing the game with lower amount of bugs/glitches (which is what updates fix)? You can also bring your laptop (if this is what you use to play the games on) to a nearby location with good Wi-Fi or wired broadband access, download all updates, put Steam in "offline" mode and then enjoy the game at your own place. And if you don't care about updates at all - get any of the recent gaming consoles, after initial system software update you can just buy the disks with games, insert them into console and start playing the single-player games without the need for any downloads, including such stuff like "latest video drivers" or any silliness like this All options are better than wasting time on forums complaining about an issue which doesn't actually affect most of the people with good broadband connections.

My subscription allows you people to exist on this site and makes me a better human being than you'll ever be

ronch wrote:This is the first and last game I get that needs Steam, I swear. I wanted to pay for this game, I really did. Now I somewhat feel I should've rebelled instead and got it through torrent!

Yeah, well even if you did you'd still have to download the update anyway.

Anyone can play Steam games in offline mode anywhere they want as long as the system is already validated with steam guard. If the game itself requires a permanent internet connection then that was a decision made by the game devs so assign the blame to them, not Steam.

Frankly I love Steam. Reinstalled my OS and I didn't have to reinstall a single game, Steam and my entire Steam library are housed on its own SSD. Just made a shortcut to the root steam.exe and it works just like I was using the old OS, didn't even have to reinstall Steam or validate the system. And since Steam stores game profiles with the actual games, most games retained their settings. But say I wanted to delete games to make space then download them again whenever I felt like another play through of say Half-Life, then l I can do so since there's no limitation on the number of times people can download the game. It's also convenient to have access to my entire game library regardless of where I may be or whose system I may be using.

Valve sure isn't a saint, but on the flipside even as a Windows user I will gladly give them credit for pushing hard to revive the linux gaming scene. And while they do sell some games laden with DRM, they do discourage it as a policy and will even remove it from the installer if the publisher later recants.

slowriot wrote:IMO.... OPs problems are primarily due to the lack of familiarity with Steam. It behaved as expected. It definitely prompts you if you want to install after you've added a key, sounds to me OP clicked OK/Yes on dialog boxes without fully reading them.

Nope. It was my first time running Steam so I was kinda careful. It may have asked me about proceeding with the installation but I was never asked whether I wanted to install from the discs. I'm sure it would be nice to download the latest build, but as I've said, our internet connection sucks. And it's relatively expensive. Local ISPs here have been screwing us.

Plus, I've noticed that Steam doesn't seem to work all that well. The game placed an icon on my desktop. While Steam is downloading (presumably) the last 2% of the game, I quit Steam and tried to launch the game using the icon. Windows opened a new window saying Steam is being updated but it didn't continue doing so. Restarted the system, clicked on the icon again, and I'm back to the screen which says files for Thief are being downloaded. Don't know if the message earlier about Steam itself needing to be updated was wrong or Steam was already done updating. Weird. I know a lot of you guys swear by Steam because you've all gotten used to its weirdness, but it'll take me a while to get used to it, admittedly. As it is, I'd still try to stay away from such crazy gimmicks as soon as I finish Thief.Are

As you get older, you don't lose your friends.. you just find out who the real ones are.

Kougar wrote:Anyone can play Steam games in offline mode anywhere they want as long as the system is already validated with steam guard. If the game itself requires a permanent internet connection then that was a decision made by the game devs so assign the blame to them, not Steam.

^This, Gawd dang, THIS!

There is so much FUD about playing games offline that I see thrown around the 'net that none of it is true.

Steam has a lot of support with the PC Gaming community, right? My only gripe with it is the occasional price gouging (but Steam Sales make up for this - Those are awesome), and I'm not happy with some games only using Steam as the content delivery service. I'm looking at EA and Ubisoft titles in particular, whereby if you buy their games on Steam it then launches you into Origin / UPlay separately. You end up with several game stores / services running at any one time.

Online games don't have such a good experience as a result. I've got a lot of Steam friends in my list, but then need to manage separate friend lists in UPlay, and then again in Origin with neither having any visibility of the competing platform. IMO, there's a lot to be said for how PSN/Xbox Live manage this, where the game dev is required to integrate with the consoles social/friends platform and not run with their own. Steam surely has a big enough user base to *possibly* impose such a requirement on games to appear in their catalogue. Steam works and the social aspects in steam can't cost much more if anything to include over what a AAA developer paid to the consoles to get the same stuff included.

geekl33tgamer wrote:Steam has a lot of support with the PC Gaming community, right? My only gripe with it is the occasional price gouging (but Steam Sales make up for this - Those are awesome), and 'm not happy with some games only using Steam as the content delivery service. I'm looking at EA and Ubisoft titles in particular, whereby if you buy their games on Steam it then launches you into Origin / UPlay separately. You end up with several game stores / services running at any one time.

Get used to it. In short time all major publishing houses will have their own Steam like system. Next up (I am betting) will be Zenimax to go along with Valve's Steam, Ubisoft's UPlay, EA's Origin, Blizzard's Battlenet. While Uplay and Origin are not as 'full featured' as Steam, they will catch up. All of those features that Steam currently has didn't happen overnight, it's evolved. I remember the launch of Steam, it looked much like how Origin is now.

I expect the eventuality that each publishing house will pull their catalog from Steam and use their own delivery service exclusively. (But maybe not, the infrastructure for this has to be robust. I don't know what Steam's back end/ datacenter is like but it has to be huge)

Personally I would have loved it if Steam was the only one. But I realize the competing nature of the business and hosting other studios' offerings are just Counterintuitive.

While I haven't bought anything from GoG doesn't it too have its own launcher/ Content Delivery System?

ronch wrote:Ok, I just got a copy of Thief (4) on DVD and I must say... Steam SUCKS!!!

Uh, no it doesn't. You just don't know how to use it. Like right clicking on your download to manage it, and delete local files will remove what was downloaded. Not to mention putting the key in first was the wrong way to install from a cd. Activating the key is if you want to download. Anyone who's used steam in the last several years knows this, as key activation is for when you don't have a disc, and only have a key. You even admit understanding the intent of key activation, but loltastically did it wrong anyway. You install directly from the disc if you want to to install from a disc. Every complaint listed here is a pebkac issue that stems from inexperience and not following proper install procedures, and you were able to install from the disc once you figured out how to do it the right way.

I also note that you are a gog.com user. Gog is fairly similar to steam, as they are a digital distribution service. They don't have cd's at all, and you need an account to buy and download games, not to mention gog.com has their own game downloader, which is kinda what steam is. I find it hilarious that you use gog, but are complaining about downloading a game from steam. At least steam lets you install from a dvd. GOG doesn't. Their games are all downloads. Also, steam automatically patches your games and has a game file verifier to check for missing or corrupted files. That's a handy feature. GoG doesn't update unless you use the update service, and it doesn't work very well.

Also, as we are all gaming on windows, we know fresh window installs can require reinstalling software. This isn't necessary if you use steam, as steam backs up your save games in the cloud, and you only need a copy of the steam directory to start running your games, as steam manages game installs automatically, unlike gog or cds which would require manually reinstalling every game in your collection.

Lastly, steam and GOG are not really attempts to curb piracy. They actually are lock-in systems to eliminate the pc resale market. People are allowed to resell licenses, but you aren't allowed to circumvent account based drm. Therefore, the answer to eliminating resale is to tie your license to an encrypted account which doesn't permit account to account transfers. The only way around this, is to sell your entire account, which people who have a big collection won't want to do.

Steam's community services are the best in the industry, so once you get it running and figure out how to use it, I doubt you'll dislike it for long.

ronch wrote:Nope. It was my first time running Steam so I was kinda careful. It may have asked me about proceeding with the installation but I was never asked whether I wanted to install from the discs. I'm sure it would be nice to download the latest build, but as I've said, our internet connection sucks. And it's relatively expensive. Local ISPs here have been screwing us.

It DID ask you if you wanted to install before doing so. No, it likely didn't ask if you wanted to use DVDs because the vast majority of people do not have the discs, they buy and download via Steam. I'm sorry your ISP sucks but Steam doesn't need to cater to everyone in every possible situation. As you stated yourself, Steam didn't prevent you from installing using the DVDs. It simply didn't make it as obvious as you'd like, but you managed to figure it out.

Plus, I've noticed that Steam doesn't seem to work all that well. The game placed an icon on my desktop. While Steam is downloading (presumably) the last 2% of the game, I quit Steam and tried to launch the game using the icon. Windows opened a new window saying Steam is being updated but it didn't continue doing so. Restarted the system, clicked on the icon again, and I'm back to the screen which says files for Thief are being downloaded. Don't know if the message earlier about Steam itself needing to be updated was wrong or Steam was already done updating. Weird. I know a lot of you guys swear by Steam because you've all gotten used to its weirdness, but it'll take me a while to get used to it, admittedly. As it is, I'd still try to stay away from such crazy gimmicks as soon as I finish Thief.Are

This made me throw my hands in the air. I don't understand what you were trying to accomplish. Of course the game wasn't going to launch, there was a portion left to be downloaded. Why in the world did you exit the client with 2% left?

Honestly, I'd think you were trolling given how comical your interactions with Steam have been if I didn't know you were being serious.

slowriot wrote:IMO.... OPs problems are primarily due to the lack of familiarity with Steam. It behaved as expected. It definitely prompts you if you want to install after you've added a key, sounds to me OP clicked OK/Yes on dialog boxes without fully reading them.

Nope. It was my first time running Steam so I was kinda careful. It may have asked me about proceeding with the installation but I was never asked whether I wanted to install from the discs. I'm sure it would be nice to download the latest build, but as I've said, our internet connection sucks. And it's relatively expensive. Local ISPs here have been screwing us.

Plus, I've noticed that Steam doesn't seem to work all that well. The game placed an icon on my desktop. While Steam is downloading (presumably) the last 2% of the game, I quit Steam and tried to launch the game using the icon. Windows opened a new window saying Steam is being updated but it didn't continue doing so. Restarted the system, clicked on the icon again, and I'm back to the screen which says files for Thief are being downloaded. Don't know if the message earlier about Steam itself needing to be updated was wrong or Steam was already done updating. Weird. I know a lot of you guys swear by Steam because you've all gotten used to its weirdness, but it'll take me a while to get used to it, admittedly. As it is, I'd still try to stay away from such crazy gimmicks as soon as I finish Thief.Are

Hence, as slowriot pointed out and you denied, your own unfamiliarity with steam is a factor here.

Steam has a screen that shows you downloads in progress and allows users to adjust the queue as they want. Steam even shows download status at the bottom of the main steam window as well. Also, updates to Steam itself do not require you to wait to download, install, or restart Steam. You can play the game and update Steam later. It's readily apparent that most of your issues you're clearly just bringing upon yourself.

Ryhadar wrote:I've never had steam start immediately downloading a game after putting in a product key. I wonder if they changed something since I've done it last.

It doesn't. There's a prompt right after the "success with key lol" message that defaults to wanting to install, but in this case ronch jammed "next, next, next, next" a little too often/too aggressively.

I buy games from Steam. They do not rent them. I own many many GB of data and right now I have exactly one disc. A Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl disc as it was not possible to roll the steam version back to 1.0004 at that time. It is now and I would just do that, these days.

You seem to believe that you don't own something unless you have a physical thing. That is primitive, hence the knuckle dragging analogy.

PenGun wrote: Well seeing you do not understand even periods, I will explain.

I buy games from Steam. They do not rent them. I own many many GB of data and right now I have exactly one disc. A Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl disc as it was not possible to roll the steam version back to 1.0004 at that time. It is now and I would just do that, these days.

You seem to believe that you don't own something unless you have a physical thing. That is primitive, hence the knuckle dragging analogy.

I see. No, I own the games I purchase on gog because gog can do anything they wish and I will still be able to play them.

Steam on the other hand has the right to remove all your games from you for no reason. If Valve goes under and doesn't provide a patch, you're SOL all you games are gone. If the steam servers are down...well too bad you cannot play your games ATM. In the end, you're just borrowing something from them for as long as they feel like letting you have it.

BTW, next time you want to call someone stupid, you should probably understand the situation before you post so you don't end up looking like a fool.

PenGun wrote: Well seeing you do not understand even periods, I will explain.

I buy games from Steam. They do not rent them. I own many many GB of data and right now I have exactly one disc. A Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl disc as it was not possible to roll the steam version back to 1.0004 at that time. It is now and I would just do that, these days.

You seem to believe that you don't own something unless you have a physical thing. That is primitive, hence the knuckle dragging analogy.

I see. No, I own the games I purchase on gog because gog can do anything they wish and I will still be able to play them.

Steam on the other hand has the right to remove all your games from you for no reason. If Valve goes under and doesn't provide a patch, you're SOL all you games are gone. If the steam servers are down...well too bad you cannot play your games ATM. In the end, you're just borrowing something from them for as long as they feel like letting you have it.

Actually you can just go into offline mode and play most of them whenever you want. As has been mentioned several times already, the only time you NEED to be logged into Steam to play your games, once they've been installed and validated, is if the game developer creates that requirement for a specific game. Just log into Steam (so your credentials are stored in the local cache) and then go into Offline mode.

BTW, next time you want to call someone stupid, you should probably understand the situation before you post so you don't end up looking like a fool.

odizzido wrote:I see. No, I own the games I purchase on gog because gog can do anything they wish and I will still be able to play them.

Steam on the other hand has the right to remove all your games from you for no reason. If Valve goes under and doesn't provide a patch, you're SOL all you games are gone. If the steam servers are down...well too bad you cannot play your games ATM. In the end, you're just borrowing something from them for as long as they feel like letting you have it.

BTW, next time you want to call someone stupid, you should probably understand the situation before you post so you don't end up looking like a fool.

vargis14 wrote:I hate Blizzard with a passion since I cannot play Diablo 3 because the darn Authenticator app on my phone will not give me the correct code to allow me to play!

To reset they want a picture of my driver licence....are they outta their minds, I have yet to call tyhem this happened this past weekend after not playing for months.

I hate just because you do not play something for a while you have to jump through hoops, claps your hands and do cart wheels all at the same time to get them going. Ubisoft is a SOB too. I have been lucky with Origin so far believe it or not.

So.... you opted in to a 2 factor authentication service, now you are complaining that they don't want to give any random joe claiming to be you access to your account?

vargis14 wrote:I hate Blizzard with a passion since I cannot play Diablo 3 because the darn Authenticator app on my phone will not give me the correct code to allow me to play!

To reset they want a picture of my driver licence....are they outta their minds, I have yet to call tyhem this happened this past weekend after not playing for months.

You do know you can reset the Authenticator right? Login to your Bnet account online, you know using us.battle.net. Remove the authenticator attached to your account. Log-in to the desktop launcher as normal, just once, then log back in to your Bnet account re-add the athentcator like your setting it up as new. Hocus pocus.....its now in sync.

Now if you have forgotten your email and password used for you Bnet account then yea, you're going to have to fax /email them a photo of your ID. (really its not that hard. sheesh)

But hey, what do I know, lets just complain about every company that provides a service that does it correctly!