I want to know more about Abraham Lincoln and his views on God
and religion. I have read quotes of his and those of his family and friends
that claim he was not a Christian, and that he did sometimes border on
atheism. How can I know that these claims are true? I have a hard time
believing that our forefathers were agnostics or atheists. Is there any
way you can prove to me that Abraham Lincoln was not a Christian and/or
not even a theist? These are honest questions as I genuinely want to know
more about Lincoln.

I look forward to your response. Please include any references
that might help me.

Why would it be so bad for them to have been atheists? Does atheism
equal wickedness? Does faith itself make one good? or is there more?

The biography by Lincoln's close associate, William Herndon, should
remove most doubt about Lincoln's infidelity. Also, Robert Ingersoll, John
E. Remsberg, and Joseph Lewis have compiled some thorough studies on Lincoln's
lack of religious belief (links below). Follow these arguments and compare
how the same thing happened to Paine and others (and is now happening to
Jefferson of all people) and you will see that certain people live in their
own world and follow no rules when it comes to historical inquiry -- they
will claim any hero that it is convenient for them to claim and that they
can get away with.

When the country has a genuine hero, the tendency among all citizens
is to claim that hero as their own. Thus, whoever you are, Lincoln was
just like you. Also, if one's system involves a method that alleges to
make people moral (or worse, that one cannot be moral without that method),
advocates of that method will naturally claim national heroes as their
own. And since Christianity began to flourish shortly after the time of
Lincoln, the myths of his piety flourished along with the factual accounts
of his heroism.

While it feels good to know that Lincoln, along with Jefferson, Adams,
Washington, Paine, and many other American heroes were either flat-out
atheists or bordered on atheism or would have been atheists had Darwin
lived back then, we are not claiming that atheism is superior or that
all moral people are motivated by their lack of faith, etc. (Though some
do make this claim, most of us teach that you're on your own and must make
your own life. Some of us do, however, claim that faith impairs morality;
I do not teach this as it simply is not true.)

Sure, I'd like to think JFK or MLK or Gandhi were in our camp, but all
were devout theists (a argument can be made for Gandhi's eventual atheism,
but this is almost impossible to establish). The type of atheism we advocate
relegates one's religious beliefs as incidental to one's character. The
only time religious dogma really plays a role is, I think, when one becomes a
hero within the religion (such as a missionary or a preacher -- someone
who stumps specifically for the faith).

Thank you for your response. I have not finished checking out
the links you supplied, but I do appreciate you sending them.

As for your very first comment:

"Why would it be so bad for them to have been atheists?
Does atheism equal wickedness? Does faith itself make one good? or is there
more?"

I do not at all think it would have been bad for any of our forefathers
to have been atheists. Not at all do I think that. I just have my doubts
as to how much people questioned the existence of God at that time. With
the scientific knowledge that we know today, I can see more easily why
some would question the existence of God and even claim that God does not
exist.

But, did our forefathers have enough knowledge and evidence that
would make them question God? I am just skeptical as to how likely it really
was for people to question God at that time because (as far as I know--and
I very well may be wrong) that belief was still a strong part of their
understanding of the world.

In any case, I will read the links you sent me, and if I have
any questions I will be sure to come back and ask you again.

My question tried to point out the indignity heaped upon atheists throughout
history -- especially in America today. This aspect is guaranteed to get
me riled, as I have suffered from this stigma since childhood.

As for atheism being an untenable position during the Revolutionary
period, Richard Dawkins concurs with you, as do I, but Dawkins explained it
the most nobly:

An atheist before Darwin could have said, following
Hume: "I have no explanation for complex biological design. All I know
is that God isn't a good explanation, so we must wait and hope that somebody
comes up with a better one." I can't help feeling that such a position,
though logically sound, would have left one feeling pretty unsatisfied,
and that although atheism might have been logically tenable before
Darwin, Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist.
-- The Blind Watchmaker, p. 6

Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists, as were most intellectuals
in America during the Revolutionary era. After Darwin they became Freethinkers
or Ingersoll-esque agnostics (though Ingersoll more resembled an atheist
of the dogmatic variety than any who would call themselves agnostics or
even atheists today; Ingersoll's are hard core even amongst atheists).
Only relatively recently, amidst the stigma of being an atheist, have scientists
begun to say they are pantheistic, but this variety of pantheism
is atheistic as well. It's like that old joke:

Q: What's the difference between an atheist and an agnostic?
A: The agnostic gets invited to dinner.

The same can be said for the atheistic pantheist, the Unitarian, and any number of "in the closet" terms we use to describe ourselves.

Abraham Lincoln, though, knew about evolution, having been elected to
the presidency a little over a year after the publication of Origin
of Species. By then, speculation on evolution had been making the rounds
within Freethought circles for years, and one of Lincoln's favorite activities,
according to Herndon, was to argue Freethought issues with his rough-and-tumble
Freethought buddies.

Is that the Lincoln we learned about in Sunday School? or even Public
School?

Oh, and Washington used to duck out of Church whenever the Communion
ritual was about to commence. He also is known to have forsworn the mealtime
prayer at home.

And Adams and Jefferson: Recently, American Atheists published book
covers for students to counter the Christian Nation book covers being distributed
in Texas and elsewhere. The schools initially tried to ban the book covers
as "hate literature" because they contained anti-Christian quotations
from John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. We have a thorough collection of
these quotations in our Big List of
Quotations, and just yesterday completed a separate Jefferson
file, probably the biggest collection of Jefferson's quotes on religion
on the entire Web -- and it's just a drop in the bucket. John Adams was outspoken
as well, but he was not as adamant as Jefferson, speaking only to Jefferson
and a few others, and only later in life.

Paine was so outspoken that his anti-Christian sentiments have cost
him his rightful place in the cultural-historical memory of America. But it was he who coined the phrase "The United States of America,"
it was he who sparked the Revolution with is "Common Sense" series
of pamphlets, and it was he who kept the Revolution going by glomming millions
from Louis XVI and by publishing his "The Crisis" series to strengthen
morale.

Call them rogues if you wish, but don't call them Christians. They may
have had vague sentiments of a god, out there, somewhere, but they were
not devout by any means.

And they were the rule rather than the exception for the post-Enlightenment
colonies. Church membership had died off to a mere five percent during
the Revolution. Church membership peaked a little during the Civil war,
but didn't get that high until during the anti-Communist hysteria of the
1950s, and it peaked again during the Reagan administration. Today, though,
the fundamentalists Christians consist mostly of the elderly and the poor;
the under-30 crowd is least likely to believe, for example, in young-earth
creationism or the immanent return of Christ within our lifetimes. And
in Europe, Christianity is passe as to not warrant any notice; atheists
in Europe have little or no work to do these days.