GregBeast,
How do you feel about the possibility of the NCAA taking away the moto-grip on face offs?

I don't know about the Beast, but I think it is the dumbest recommendation they have made. The motogrip does not necessarily create an advantage; it is something of a personal preference.
Personally, I like using the motogrip because I that's how I did it in hockey. When I picked up lax, it was more comfortable, natural, and easy for me to continue doing the same. That does not mean that I cannot take faceoffs using a normal grip (in either sport), because I can and have. In fact, there are some situations where I have better luck with that. Though I think my reaction time is better in the moto.
For some reason the rules committee seems to hate faceoffs. Since their attempts to eliminate or reduce face offs continually get rebuffed, they are finding other ways to decrease their significance. To me, face offs are one of the most exciting aspects of the game. Two men fighting for the ball, working to give their team possession, contributes to the sport's uniqueness. It also brings to mind images of traditional Native American lacrosse where it was more than a mere game.

GregBeast,
How do you feel about the possibility of the NCAA taking away the moto-grip on face offs?

Well Greg uses mostly traditional so I don't think it will make a huge difference to him, maybe make him more dominant because everyone else will be out of their comfort zone in traditional haha I didn't get to see the Jerry vs Greg showdown but I'm sure it was great

Top Strings Lacrosse Stringing ~ Stringings, Coconut Mesh, Wood Shafts... we do it all.Check out my Website ~ Like my Facebook Page PLEASE SIGN THIS EVEN IF YOUR NOT A FOGO I WOULD APPRECIATE IT

Like I said in the article, as someone who has used both for years my theory is that eliminating moto would make the draw faster in general. Not BECAUSE MOTOS ARE BIGGER CHEATERS like Pete Vlahakis ranted before slandering my name on the comments section (still shocked by that). The reason is simple, because the glove gets in the way, the opposing player must fight harder to get around the glove (hence why guys are stuck spinning in circles for a minute straight). Now this is based on my experience and is just my opinion.

That being said, I don't care much because fogos can, have and always will adapt. The sad thing is that the common denominator amongst those who seem to be the most furious about the change is that these men all seem to have a bit of a selfish reason for opposing the change. They run expensive camps/clinics that teach the moto and if it's taken away they will take a serious financial hit. Their motives simply aren't about the speed/benefit of the game but purely financial and that to me (if true) is very sad.

I still stand by my simple comment that I've always thought that down....set....whistle with hands off of the plastic and sticks off of the line and straight up/down is perfect. The issue is that every referee calls the game different. That is where the error comes in. Could you imagine if baseball changed the strike zone every year? Instead they accept that every umpire sees the strike zone differently. And because of that pitchers and hitters adjust accordingly. But referees are the ones who should be held accountable not the players.

Cavs thanks for the words and hopefully we can right the ship and come together in Boston. It's one special season for me and my team and I'd love to finally reach the top of the mountain after such a terrible 2011.

Like I said in the article, as someone who has used both for years my theory is that eliminating moto would make the draw faster in general. Not BECAUSE MOTOS ARE BIGGER CHEATERS like Pete Vlahakis ranted before slandering my name on the comments section (still shocked by that). The reason is simple, because the glove gets in the way, the opposing player must fight harder to get around the glove (hence why guys are stuck spinning in circles for a minute straight). Now this is based on my experience and is just my opinion.

That being said, I don't care much because fogos can, have and always will adapt. The sad thing is that the common denominator amongst those who seem to be the most furious about the change is that these men all seem to have a bit of a selfish reason for opposing the change. They run expensive camps/clinics that teach the moto and if it's taken away they will take a serious financial hit. Their motives simply aren't about the speed/benefit of the game but purely financial and that to me (if true) is very sad.

I still stand by my simple comment that I've always thought that down....set....whistle with hands off of the plastic and sticks off of the line and straight up/down is perfect. The issue is that every referee calls the game different. That is where the error comes in. Could you imagine if baseball changed the strike zone every year? Instead they accept that every umpire sees the strike zone differently. And because of that pitchers and hitters adjust accordingly. But referees are the ones who should be held accountable not the players.

Cavs thanks for the words and hopefully we can right the ship and come together in Boston. It's one special season for me and my team and I'd love to finally reach the top of the mountain after such a terrible 2011.

Well by that logic,
a uses moto, b uses flip (vice versa)
with same speed, a wins (vice versa)

a uses moto, b uses moto
with the same speed, long match up (which is possible)

a uses flip, b uses flip
with the same speed, long match up (which is possible)

So why are there long battles with regardless of grip, and quick wins regardless of grip.

Because one person is quicker, got lucky, or is better that the other. There are long battles in the MLL when you have used flipgrip against someone with moto (ie Smith). I believe it is because everyone is at such a high level of skill at that point it is about speed, and the quality and level of skill in faceoffs, in the NCAA has increased dramatically since the 2000s.

I might be wrong, I might be right, under the right assumptions, this would make a GREAT statistical research paper with such a large potential sample size, at the division 1, 2, and 3 levels. If anyone has the time to do so, I think it would be great project for both sides of the argument.

I do agree referees need to have the same cadence, at least within the game, to test reaction off the whistle, not who can jump and get away with it.

With that said, I will hopefully enjoy watching you (I hate how it the MLL is only on CBS Sports...) I really wished I could have seen more MLL action this year.

And thanks, Our Semi-final game vs Denver will be at 1pm on Aug 25th on ESPN2

Championship game on Sunday at 3pm also on ESPN2

Originally Posted by Hawk30

Well by that logic,
a uses moto, b uses flip (vice versa)
with same speed, a wins (vice versa)

a uses moto, b uses moto
with the same speed, long match up (which is possible)

a uses flip, b uses flip
with the same speed, long match up (which is possible)

So why are there long battles with regardless of grip, and quick wins regardless of grip.

Because one person is quicker, got lucky, or is better that the other. There are long battles in the MLL when you have used flipgrip against someone with moto (ie Smith). I believe it is because everyone is at such a high level of skill at that point it is about speed, and the quality and level of skill in faceoffs, in the NCAA has increased dramatically since the 2000s.

I might be wrong, I might be right, under the right assumptions, this would make a GREAT statistical research paper with such a large potential sample size, at the division 1, 2, and 3 levels. If anyone has the time to do so, I think it would be great project for both sides of the argument.

I do agree referees need to have the same cadence, at least within the game, to test reaction off the whistle, not who can jump and get away with it.

With that said, I will hopefully enjoy watching you (I hate how it the MLL is only on CBS Sports...) I really wished I could have seen more MLL action this year.

On the topic of NCAA rule changes, I would just like to share that (apparently) more fogo's were showing up with injuries when they used moto grip. The most common situation being when the opposing player jams the player using moto on the wrist, causing a variety of injuries.

Another comment, do you think the new rules will create more or less opportunities for players like C.J. Costabile to thrive as a draw man in the NCAA? I mean the guy was a ground ball machine, but just scrummed every face off. Would that be easier/harder to do with the elimination of moto?

Obviously there are many others here with more faceoff experience then me, so I just wanted to share my findings.

To Greg, keep doing what you're doing, you're a real roll model to the lacrosse community.

You can't jam an opponents wrist anymore so your point about the injuries and Moto are completely irrelevant EHS.

Arguments sake: I have a Fogo I play with fairly frequently. He's a talented Fogo and normally the faces last at least 10 seconds ... In preparation to the new rules, we both took a couple against each other in flip grip... Face-offs were not any shorter; in fact it lasted longer and my wrist still hurts from nearly hyperextending it.

|My attitude is that if you push me towards something that you think |

|is a weakness, then I will turn that perceived weakness into a strength.|

Kind of random Greg, but for all the big men in the MLL does Warrior/Brine offer arm protection in XL or XXL, the retail L's seem way too snug on all models. And best of luck this weekend, Dominate man!

your youtube videos helped turn on a former college bball player with an interest in lax into an aspiring face off specialist. I started playing in april after reffing and Im trying out for the Rutgers Club lax team. So far I'm 7 for 8 on face offs so hopefully I can keep it going and earn a spot. Keep beasting bro.

Re: Greg Gurenlian is the man megathread!

I'm actually not looking to sign with anyone nor has anyone approached me. To be honest the idea of committing to one company and losing my freedom to wear whatever I want for a couple thousand bucks doesn't really entice me. And I wouldn't be too excited about the gear expansion either if I were a fan. The MLL has made it so impossibly expensive to buy in (strictly for the rights of pads, gloves and sticks) that no other companies really seem too interested. Even nike for example who's biggest seller is their cleats in this sport, wouldn't be able to join because footwear is excluded. It's a tough sell.

Re: Greg Gurenlian is the man megathread!

Hey Greg, whats your feelings on moto vs. traditional grip? I've been using traditional for a while, but I'm starting high school this year and I figured if I'm going to change it, nows the time. I see a lot of guys using moto. Is it more powerful/quicker? I feel like I have more room to move with traditional. Is it worth the switch, in your opinion?

Re: Greg Gurenlian is the man megathread!

Hey Greg I have some questions related to lifting. While I do water polo, Im not sure of how I should be lifting, doing a 3x5 program with squats, power cleans, deadlifts, and press per day before I started water polo. I weigh 155lbs roughly. Also, I feel like my hand speed is slower than it had been previous to my noticing of it. How can I increase my hand speed if there is a method outside of chopping and practicing the motions?

Re: Greg Gurenlian is the man megathread!

Beast, I would love to hear your thoughts on the (alleged) name change from "Long Island" to "New York" Lizards, the (alleged) new logo and updated color scheme.
As a Lizards fan, the logo is decent and the color change looks minor league. But I hate hate hate changing from LI to NY. It doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely, it discredits the importance of LI to lacrosse, and it takes some identity from the Lizards.

Re: Greg Gurenlian is the man megathread!

Aetraxx,
Let me preface my statement by saying that I am a huge lizards fan. As much as I love LI, the MLL NEEDS to market it self for a larger audience and make itself more of a 'Big Boy' league if it wants to survive. Keeping ties to the small/college towns isn't going to do that. It is FAR easier to market a team in 'New York' than long island. Same with the Bayhawks, sooner or later they will get tied to Baltimore (again as memory serves). IT just makes the marketing easier. There would have been no chance for the Machine in Chicago if they would have been the 'Bridgeview Machine'.

YMMV

Watching television is like taking black spray paint to your third eye.--Bill Hicks 1961–1994

Re: Greg Gurenlian is the man megathread!

Originally Posted by WI_LAX_COACH

Aetraxx,
Let me preface my statement by saying that I am a huge lizards fan. As much as I love LI, the MLL NEEDS to market it self for a larger audience and make itself more of a 'Big Boy' league if it wants to survive. Keeping ties to the small/college towns isn't going to do that. It is FAR easier to market a team in 'New York' than long island. Same with the Bayhawks, sooner or later they will get tied to Baltimore (again as memory serves). IT just makes the marketing easier. There would have been no chance for the Machine in Chicago if they would have been the 'Bridgeview Machine'.

YMMV

Oh, I understand that was the motivation behind it immediately. There is no doubt that New York says "major league" more than "Long Island" does. Despite playing in Nassau since day 1 (until their planned move to Brooklyn), the Islanders have always used New York. As did the Cosmos in every location they played in. The Giants, Jets, and Red Bulls all chose to use NY over NJ for the same reasons.
My real distaste for the change comes down to a simple personal issue: I hate New York teams. I have never cheered for a "New York" team; being Long Island got the Lizards around the issue. Sure it's petty, but isn't that what being a sports fan is all about?

Re: Greg Gurenlian is the man megathread!

I'm not really a fan of the name change from LI to New York since I'm from Philly and not a fan of New York teams. Also, it just sounded better too. Little disappointed about the name change itself too since i just got a long island lizards shirt in the mail quite recently and im going to need to get another one when they have it.

Re: Greg Gurenlian is the man megathread!

Hey guys, sorry it's been a while since I last answered some questions. I am an ENORMOUS advocate of being named the NEW YORK Lizards. And with the color/jersey change.

1) Yes, it got really annoying having this exchange with people on the street:

me: Yes, I still play lacrosse.
Dude: Oh? What team?
me: The Long Island Lizards.
Dude: .........is that like semi-pro?

New York sounds way better.

2) As a born and raised philadelphian, and now being a transplanted New Yorker, I don't care at all about my Jersey saying NY over LI. I wasn't raised in either place so who cares.

3) The owners, even though they wanted the New York name and brand to increase the footprint of fans, still wanted to pay homage to the Lizards name since we were one of the original 6.

4) Please, the people claiming "you can't take lacrosse away from LI, it's a hotbed!" A lacrosse hotbed doesn't gaurentee attendance. If the answer to attendance was literally just "drop a team in a hotbed" Then philly would still have a squad and we wouldn't of been second to last in attendance.

5) Pushing pro lacrosse into New York City by starting with a few games could be something that changes the game for the MLL. Our new marketing team is legit and their plan is to create a big fan base inside of the largest city in the country. Pretty smart. And also, we want to start marketing this league to Adults not just the kids. The other pro sports don't hope and pray that there is a lax tournament going on the same day as their home games. Adults WANT to be there just as bad as the kids.

6) The color scheme is based on a simple model:
Oregon ducks went with cool new colors (i.e. volt) and a few years later they're a legit football powerhouse and they sell a ton of merchandise. Seattle seahawks (neon Green) same thing. So the idea was to continue the futuristic trend in sports and go with baller looking colors. As Lax Playground had said, Basically we're the Seahawks jerseys but we have black instead of dark blue. I love that.

I'm exhausted from writing this. Have a goodnight, I'll be on here checking back more often I promise. Off season training is in full swing and I'm extremely pumped at what's in store for the NY Lizards.

Re: Greg Gurenlian is the man megathread!

Hey guys, sorry it's been a while since I last answered some questions. I am an ENORMOUS advocate of being named the NEW YORK Lizards. And with the color/jersey change.

1) Yes, it got really annoying having this exchange with people on the street:

me: Yes, I still play lacrosse.
Dude: Oh? What team?
me: The Long Island Lizards.
Dude: .........is that like semi-pro?

New York sounds way better.

2) As a born and raised philadelphian, and now being a transplanted New Yorker, I don't care at all about my Jersey saying NY over LI. I wasn't raised in either place so who cares.

3) The owners, even though they wanted the New York name and brand to increase the footprint of fans, still wanted to pay homage to the Lizards name since we were one of the original 6.

4) Please, the people claiming "you can't take lacrosse away from LI, it's a hotbed!" A lacrosse hotbed doesn't gaurentee attendance. If the answer to attendance was literally just "drop a team in a hotbed" Then philly would still have a squad and we wouldn't of been second to last in attendance.

5) Pushing pro lacrosse into New York City by starting with a few games could be something that changes the game for the MLL. Our new marketing team is legit and their plan is to create a big fan base inside of the largest city in the country. Pretty smart. And also, we want to start marketing this league to Adults not just the kids. The other pro sports don't hope and pray that there is a lax tournament going on the same day as their home games. Adults WANT to be there just as bad as the kids.

6) The color scheme is based on a simple model:
Oregon ducks went with cool new colors (i.e. volt) and a few years later they're a legit football powerhouse and they sell a ton of merchandise. Seattle seahawks (neon Green) same thing. So the idea was to continue the futuristic trend in sports and go with baller looking colors. As Lax Playground had said, Basically we're the Seahawks jerseys but we have black instead of dark blue. I love that.

I'm exhausted from writing this. Have a goodnight, I'll be on here checking back more often I promise. Off season training is in full swing and I'm extremely pumped at what's in store for the NY Lizards.

Great points and I appreciate your insight, as always. I agree with everything you said.
Looks like I will have to suck it up and accept the fact that I cheer for a "New York" team now... The crappy part is that I have a few items of LI fan apparel that are now obsolete...

Re: Greg Gurenlian is the man megathread!

Greg,

I just want to say that I think it's great that you've been responding to posts in this thread. It's a great way to give back to the lacrosse community. With that said, I'm glad to see the LI Lizards are changing their name to the NY Lizards. I'm originally a Boston guy (Patriots/Red Sox), but I'll be rooting for you guys in the MLL. I'll see you guys when you play at Icahn Stadium.