I didn't know NW was in such bad shape. But what happens to the striking workers now? Can NW just fire them upder Ch 11 or are they protected somehow? I hope NW doensn't misuse the Ch 11 filing just to resolve the strike.

This, frankly, is not a surprise to me. I think had NW gotten wage concessions earlier on in the game, rather that waiting they may have been in better shape. Ultimately, this will probably end up getting them the cost savings they need a lot easier.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 5):Since they will be keeping the replacements, I assume the strikers will be let go.

Actually, the strikers continue to strike. From what I understand they just remain on strike, however they can come back to work, however only if there are positions available. Since the replacement workers are now permanent, and NW said they only intend to keep 1080 mechanic jobs, I would assume very few would be able to come back at this point.

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 7):I wonder if the powers that be (GE) would want to merge the two bankrupt carriers once they shed some of their debt and union contracts.

That was a rumor I heard around NW. I stress rumor, with nothing credible behind it. I heard several versions from DL would file Ch.7 and take over the whole company, then file Ch.11. to NW and DL filing, then pulling an HP / US thing.

Now that it looks like they will both file on the same day, makes me thing something might be in the works...

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 7):I wonder if the powers that be (GE) would want to merge the two bankrupt carriers once they shed some of their debt and union contracts.

I was thinking the same thing. Since we know that GE will be financing DL's bankruptcy, and that (based on recent history), it is quite possible that they might also be financing NW's, I don't think it outside the realm of possibility at all that GE might want to merge the two into a single company.

On a somewhat related note: if DL and NW were to merge -- which I think would create an excellent network but makes little to no sense -- I'd bet that NW will restart JFK-NRT quickly. Combining DL feed and market presence in New York would probably make the route a success once again, at least IMO.

Quoting Braniff727 (Reply 8):Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 7):
I wonder if the powers that be (GE) would want to merge the two bankrupt carriers once they shed some of their debt and union contracts.

That was a rumor I heard around NW. I stress rumor, with nothing credible behind it. I heard several versions from DL would file Ch.7 and take over the whole company, then file Ch.11. to NW and DL filing, then pulling an HP / US thing.

Now that it looks like they will both file on the same day, makes me thing something might be in the works...

That would be real intersting to watch fallout from - as has been pointed out in the numerous DL/NW threads, a DL/NW merger has significant issues to overcome (see the many numerous threads themselves for details).

Given today's harsh economic environment, a trip to bankruptcy court now appears more like hanging out inside the country club. The tragic flip side is that many of the stronger airlines are left outside in the real world to take the full force of this financial monsoon...a storm that is made more fierce by the artificial forces protecting competitors, competitors that market forces have already clearly demonstrated should no longer exist. Whatever happened to the capitalistic notion that "the strongest survive"? The system wasn't never intended to be a convalescent home for the weak.

This isn't a judgment call on the weakened carriers, it's simply an observation. There have been some tremendous forces at work for the past several years, any of which could have caused the demise of a great air carrier. Is there any way to stop this cancerous spread and instead allow market forces to do their work?

Quoting Commavia (Reply 9):if DL and NW were to merge -- which I think would create an excellent network but makes little to no sense

A DL/NW merger would make a sweet international route structure, but the domestic routes and the fleet would need some serious revamping. The company would have large amounts of Airbuses, Boeings, and of course our cherished MD products. A lot of planes would need to be dumped and seats would definitely be removed from the market, which is exactly what the industry needs. GE would be happy financing some new planes after things are worked out. Might we see a 787 and 747Adv in Delta colors?

Quoting Commavia (Reply 9):On a somewhat related note: if DL and NW were to merge -- which I think would create an excellent network but makes little to no sense -- I'd bet that NW will restart JFK-NRT quickly. Combining DL feed and market presence in New York would probably make the route a success once again, at least IMO.

Even if DL did merge with NWA the combined company would still be behind CO, AA and B6 in the NYC market. Also remember DL operated JFK-NRT and dropped the route, their "larger" presence in the NY market and feeder flights at JFK were not enough.

Quoting AAgent (Reply 12):Given today's harsh economic environment, a trip to bankruptcy court now appears more like hanging out inside the country club. The tragic flip side is that many of the stronger airlines are left outside in the real world to take the full force of this financial monsoon...a storm that is made more fierce by the artificial forces protecting competitors, competitors that market forces have already clearly demonstrated should no longer exist. Whatever happened to the capitalistic notion that "the strongest survive"? The system wasn't never intended to be a convalescent home for the weak.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 19):If its like the strike, NWAC might be taken a calculated step. UAL has become leaner & meaner while being protected & they´re the biggest competitor

Now...imagine how much 'leaner and meaner' NWA might be had UAL not been afforded the "protection" of bankruptcy court? Imagine how AA would be a world beater had they not had to compete with a bankrupt US and UAL?

I'm a big SWA fan, but when they don't fly where I am going, then I'll book on AA - even if it is a few dollars more. It's the principle of the thing...I'll give my business to any company who finds a way to compete WITHOUT screwing so many people in the process via the bankruptcy courts.

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 20):I'll give my business to any company who finds a way to compete WITHOUT screwing so many people in the process via the bankruptcy courts.

Well, I think DL should at least be given some credit for struggling so darn hard to stay out of BK court. When Grinstein was making the rounds with Congress to petition for pension relief, many officials point blank asked him "Why don't you just file for Ch.11?". Even today, when everyone is already betting that DL will file for CH. 11 in the next few days, DL comes up with a rather anti-climatic official statement "Bankruptcy remains a possibility": http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/050913/1163482.html?.v=3

How long will it be before Independence Air files too?
I know that some on these boards are drooling and having orgasims over the possibility of NW and DL going into Ch. 11 BK for their own selfish and foolish reasons.
Only bad things can come from more airlines filing for bankruptcy. You will end up with less competition and thus more expensive fares. No more '$99' fares on cross-country trips. How many companies under pressure to cut costs reduce travel even further than they have? Higher prices combined with economic weakness also means a wide range of people not flying, business or pleasure. Less service from food to baggage (if it can get less). Less frequency of service, especially from certain cities and regions that are already in decline. More "Jungle Jets" and fewer full size jets (737's on up). A lot fewer jobs in the USA for MX, and if they could get away with it, as to pilots, FA's, etc. More contract workers instead of direct employees, getting paid very cheap and with no benefits. How long will it be before AA, CO, and even (very remotely) WN will have to consider BK if competitive pressures, labor costs, continuing high fuel prices and if a decline in the USA economy?

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 23):How long will it be before AA, CO, and even (very remotely) WN will have to consider BK if competitive pressures, labor costs, continuing high fuel prices and if a decline in the USA economy?

Good question LTBEWR. IMO not long. Even WN will have to adjust their business model if most of their competition is operating under Ch 11 protection. IT seems as though NW and DL can't wait to dump their pension obligations and outsource. With AA and CO, it'll just take a little longer....

"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".

25 Pope
: Why. All they've done is ensured that the people that invested in them get even less money. They've destroyed countless billions of dollar of shareho

26 Positiverate
: Unfortunately, my guess is that DL will file at 4:01PM tomorrow in NYC. As bankruptcy lawyer who is a friedn of mine tells me that the NYC venue has b

27 Ken777
: I have a feeling that NW looked at their costs - especially fuel - and decided that Ch 11 would be in their future at some point. A decision to go bef

28 Flightopsguy
: One of the biz journals is reporting another NW payment to their pension fund due Thursday. If they miss the payment, a lien will be placed against th

29 Warszawa
: Wow - VERY Well Said (Added you to RU list) - Fully agree!

30 Ckfred
: I heard Mike Boyd of the Boyd Group on CNBC yesterday. He said in 1979, when deregulation was enacted, that only 3 or 4 large carriers would be left i

31 Dougloid
: Not entirely sure that large commercial enterprises like NW fared badly under the bankryuptcy reform bill.....not like consumers....I do not see any