I think you are nuts. Hoke has done respectably well at 2 smaller colleges that weren't exactly the dream locations for a high school seniors to play their college ball at.

Hoke did well at each locations with the plan B recruits. I think he can do great at Michigan where he can be in the running for the plan A recruits.

January 5th, 2011, 10:28 am

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3126

Re: RR Gone?

The reason I'm against Brady Hoke is because his number 1 qualification for the job is that he was Carr's Dline coach, and I don't consider that a qualification at all. If Saban were to leave Alabama for the NFL, do you think Bama would consider Brady Hoke? Of course not. Anyways, it doesn't look like Hoke will be the coach now, so I'm done arguing the point. I've said all I need to.

I am completely mystified that DB is starting a coaching search on Jan 5. We will not have a recruiting class at all next year. That is mind boggling. Wow, stunned.

The reason I'm against Brady Hoke is because his number 1 qualification for the job is that he was Carr's Dline coach, and I don't consider that a qualification at all. If Saban were to leave Alabama for the NFL, do you think Bama would consider Brady Hoke? Of course not. Anyways, it doesn't look like Hoke will be the coach now, so I'm done arguing the point. I've said all I need to.

I am completely mystified that DB is starting a coaching search on Jan 5. We will not have a recruiting class at all next year. That is mind boggling. Wow, stunned.

I think DB is thinking long term, very long term so maybe he is willing to sacrafice the 2011 season to get the right guy to right the ship. I haven't seen anything yet ruling out Hoke so I'm not sure where you are getting that info from?

_________________"When you eat crow, if you put barbecue on it, it's not so bad."-Brady Hoke

January 5th, 2011, 3:50 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: RR Gone?

BillySims wrote:

Hoke did well at each locations with the plan B recruits. I think he can do great at Michigan where he can be in the running for the plan A recruits.

Where have I heard that logic before...

January 5th, 2011, 4:41 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3126

Re: RR Gone?

Quote:

I think DB is thinking long term, very long term so maybe he is willing to sacrafice the 2011 season to get the right guy to right the ship. I haven't seen anything yet ruling out Hoke so I'm not sure where you are getting that info from?

I'm inferring that from a few things. DB said UM should be willing to shill out the big bucks. Hoke wouldn't get, nor does he deserve, a substantial amount of money. Further, if Hoke was the choice, he would probably already be the coach. His conversion with DB would be about thirty seconds long. "You want the job? Yes. Here's my offer: $X for X years. Sounds good"

If Hoke ends up the coach, he'd be the consolation hire if the search turns ugly.

January 5th, 2011, 6:07 pm

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5097Location: WSU

Re: RR Gone?

Blueskies wrote:

Quote:

I think DB is thinking long term, very long term so maybe he is willing to sacrafice the 2011 season to get the right guy to right the ship. I haven't seen anything yet ruling out Hoke so I'm not sure where you are getting that info from?

I'm inferring that from a few things. DB said UM should be willing to shill out the big bucks. Hoke wouldn't get, nor does he deserve, a substantial amount of money. Further, if Hoke was the choice, he would probably already be the coach. His conversion with DB would be about thirty seconds long. "You want the job? Yes. Here's my offer: $X for X years. Sounds good"

If Hoke ends up the coach, he'd be the consolation hire if the search turns ugly.

I agree with you on this and inferred the same thing from Brandon s comments. UM is going to try and hire someone away from another program ie Les Miles or possibly a darkhorse NFL candidate maybe Jon Gruden or someone similar. If they dont get them then they have Hoke in their back pocket. If Hoke didnt exist though they may not have fired RR bc they may not have that insurance policy.

January 5th, 2011, 7:26 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3126

Re: RR Gone?

As I said before, I had pretty reliable sources tell me a few weeks ago that Harbaugh wanted the job, but wanted to wait until after the Orange Bowl. I think DB was under the same impression, which is why he delayed the firing of Rich Rod. However, for whatever reason, Harbaugh appears to have changed his mind. Thus, DB got burned. I would've rather rode it out with RR for another season or two while the AD tried to find its Jim Tressel, rather than switch to Hoke, but we'll see.

January 5th, 2011, 7:53 pm

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5097Location: WSU

Re: RR Gone?

I dont care about your sources, everything about Harbaugh's personality and history said that he was not going to be an easy hire.

Keeping Richrod was never an option and would have been the worst thing to do. When someone repeatedly fails they have to go, you cannot keep making the same mistake. For example Joey Harrington was a bad qb but the Lions made it worse by keeping him around for 4 seasons. RichRod improved the record but not until after he destroyed a proud program and while the record started to improve he really only developed a few good players and the defense got worse. while he had top recruiting classes in february he lost a few in each class by august before their freshman season.

On Sirius NFL Radio today, they said that Les Miles has not been contacted for the job as of yet.

January 6th, 2011, 12:11 am

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3126

Re: RR Gone?

Quote:

Keeping Richrod was never an option and would have been the worst thing to do. When someone repeatedly fails they have to go, you cannot keep making the same mistake. For example Joey Harrington was a bad qb but the Lions made it worse by keeping him around for 4 seasons. RichRod improved the record but not until after he destroyed a proud program and while the record started to improve he really only developed a few good players and the defense got worse. while he had top recruiting classes in february he lost a few in each class by august before their freshman season.

Regardless of your belief on how RR would've done long-term, he still would've (more than likely) gotten 7-9 wins next season and a bowl appearance. That's a lot better than the state the program is in now.

Assuming that DB isn't lying about the coaching search (as in he doesn't already has a coach lined up) something must not have clicked, because, as I said before, only a complete and utter moron would start a coaching search two weeks before signing day and I don't think DB is that stupid. You're going to install a pro-style coach for the 2011 season without a single recruiting class? You thought the 08' season was bad? Just wait...

You could've kept RR and spent the next 10 months scouring the back channels looking for replacements, so that if you did fire RR, you could do it mid-to-late 11' season and have the replacement in early. Or you could've strong armed RR into replacing his DC with someone who could maybe take over the HC reigns in the future.

If you wanted RR gone, you have to admit that this was about the absolute worst way to let him go. This is like an NFL team firing their HC the day before opening Sunday or their GM 24 hours before the draft. You just don't do it, its completely idiotic.

Lastly, RR didn't destroy a proud program. Take off the Maize and Blue glasses. Theres a reason one of Lloyd's coordinators didn't take his place. The program was in decline long before RR got there. OSU had long surpassed us, and Lloyd's last few recruiting classes were far from steller. There's a reason why the university took such a gamble and hired RR in the first place, because a proud program had already been destroyed. They hired RR because they thought making a radical change could restore the program. They struck out. But don't go back and reinterpret history.

January 6th, 2011, 4:31 am

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2876

Re: RR Gone?

Blueskies wrote:

Quote:

Keeping Richrod was never an option and would have been the worst thing to do. When someone repeatedly fails they have to go, you cannot keep making the same mistake. For example Joey Harrington was a bad qb but the Lions made it worse by keeping him around for 4 seasons. RichRod improved the record but not until after he destroyed a proud program and while the record started to improve he really only developed a few good players and the defense got worse. while he had top recruiting classes in february he lost a few in each class by august before their freshman season.

Regardless of your belief on how RR would've done long-term, he still would've (more than likely) gotten 7-9 wins next season and a bowl appearance. That's a lot better than the state the program is in now.

Assuming that DB isn't lying about the coaching search (as in he doesn't already has a coach lined up) something must not have clicked, because, as I said before, only a complete and utter moron would start a coaching search two weeks before signing day and I don't think DB is that stupid. You're going to install a pro-style coach for the 2011 season without a single recruiting class? You thought the 08' season was bad? Just wait...

You could've kept RR and spent the next 10 months scouring the back channels looking for replacements, so that if you did fire RR, you could do it mid-to-late 11' season and have the replacement in early. Or you could've strong armed RR into replacing his DC with someone who could maybe take over the HC reigns in the future.

If you wanted RR gone, you have to admit that this was about the absolute worst way to let him go. This is like an NFL team firing their HC the day before opening Sunday or their GM 24 hours before the draft. You just don't do it, its completely idiotic.

Lastly, RR didn't destroy a proud program. Take off the Maize and Blue glasses. Theres a reason one of Lloyd's coordinators didn't take his place. The program was in decline long before RR got there. OSU had long surpassed us, and Lloyd's last few recruiting classes were far from steller. There's a reason why the university took such a gamble and hired RR in the first place, because a proud program had already been destroyed. They hired RR because they thought making a radical change could restore the program. They struck out. But don't go back and reinterpret history.

Could the delay be because he's looking at NFL guys? I don't think it's time for full-on panic mode, which is my impression of the RichRod hiring.

Let's look at the facts. This is a storied program. A couple years of RichRod and maybe some substandard years at the end of Carr's reign are not going to overturn decades and decades of tradition. DB said in his press conference that whoever they choose they're going to 'pay the man'. This is an amazing opportunity for any coach, and UofM should conduct the search as such.

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell

I'm a bit conflicted on DB, he either doesn't know what he is doing or he has a very methodical plan in place. I still think he is willing to sacrafice the 2011 season, at least in regards to recruiting, to get the right guy in there for the long haul. Be it a thorough search of candidates either at the college or NFL level I believe he is going to do his homework. It will not be a flash in the pan hire and like others have stated, if all else falls through, Hoke is always there, maybe not an ace in the hole but a good card nonetheless. The 2011 schedule is very favorable and eight or nine wins with the current roster is not outside the realm to accomplish, the 2012 schedule is brutal however and that is the year the program needs to be showing enormous progress.

_________________"When you eat crow, if you put barbecue on it, it's not so bad."-Brady Hoke

January 6th, 2011, 9:17 am

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5097Location: WSU

Re: RR Gone?

Quote:

Lastly, RR didn't destroy a proud program. Take off the Maize and Blue glasses. Theres a reason one of Lloyd's coordinators didn't take his place. The program was in decline long before RR got there. OSU had long surpassed us, and Lloyd's last few recruiting classes were far from steller. There's a reason why the university took such a gamble and hired RR in the first place, because a proud program had already been destroyed. They hired RR because they thought making a radical change could restore the program. They struck out. But don't go back and reinterpret history.

RR absolutely destroyed UM football. Lloyd had one questionable recruiting class in the year prior but thats it. Lets not forget the 11-2 season the season before Carr ended it. Otherwise they lost some quality players to the NFL that likely would have stayed and a couple big time transfers Mallet, Boren among others. The net effect of the recruiting since has been abyssmal, highly ranked classes but in the summer kids are either not getting in or deciding to leave.

January 6th, 2011, 9:49 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: RR Gone?

The Legend wrote:

Quote:

Lastly, RR didn't destroy a proud program. Take off the Maize and Blue glasses. Theres a reason one of Lloyd's coordinators didn't take his place. The program was in decline long before RR got there. OSU had long surpassed us, and Lloyd's last few recruiting classes were far from steller. There's a reason why the university took such a gamble and hired RR in the first place, because a proud program had already been destroyed. They hired RR because they thought making a radical change could restore the program. They struck out. But don't go back and reinterpret history.

RR absolutely destroyed UM football. Lloyd had one questionable recruiting class in the year prior but thats it. Lets not forget the 11-2 season the season before Carr ended it. Otherwise they lost some quality players to the NFL that likely would have stayed and a couple big time transfers Mallet, Boren among others. The net effect of the recruiting since has been abyssmal, highly ranked classes but in the summer kids are either not getting in or deciding to leave.

RR didn't destroy the program. Bill Martin destroyed the program. Bill Martin screwed up the Les Miles hire by letting the info leak to LSU before their bowl game, and forcing Les Miles to sign an extension to coach the National Title game. Bill Martin also conducted a poor initial interview with Rich Rod, didn't give him any guidance on the program, the traditions, or where to go. Bill Martin GAVE Rich Rod the blank slate that EVERYONE hated. That wasn't Rich Rod's fault, that was Bill Martin's fault.

Ryan Mallet was going to leave the program regardless as to who was coming to Michigan to coach. He was an egotistical problem child, and the players knew it as well as Carr. He was going to leave if Carr was the coach, and we had NO Qb to take his place. Carr knew that and it was one of the reasons that he wanted out, and one of the reasons that all of the junior and senior WRs wanted out. The Jr. and Sr. Wrs didn't want to be in their final years of college with a freshman Qb that couldn't showcase their talents. What we were left with was an offense that had a freshman Qb, and no senior Wrs. Pretty tough combination. You can disagree with me on a number of these things, but I will tell you firsthand that you are wrong. I don't often claim to have inside information, but I have a TON of "insiders" at UofM. This isn't some wild speculation by my part, it is accepted truth around inner circles at the football facility. RR did run Jason Boren out of town, but it had more to do with being worked too hard, feeling "entitled" not to do so, and insubordination with the new HC.

David "Bobble Head" Brandon, doesn't seem much better. I literally had to close my eyes and listen to the press conference because I was getting a headache watching his head bobble all around. He made some ridiculous statements, and he should have had the ball in order BEFORE this fiasco.

If UofM football is going to be restored to what it once was, whomever leaked the information to Fox News yesterday should be fired. It was that very same type of leak that cost us Les Miles the first time, and these leaks make the program look unstable, loosely managed, and chaotic. That's not a good foundation for any business, and we already have recruits jumping ship, or considering jumping ship because of this mess. The LAST thing that UofM needs is less talent...

January 6th, 2011, 11:42 am

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3126

Re: RR Gone?

Quote:

I'm a bit conflicted on DB, he either doesn't know what he is doing or he has a very methodical plan in place. I still think he is willing to sacrafice the 2011 season, at least in regards to recruiting, to get the right guy in there for the long haul. Be it a thorough search of candidates either at the college or NFL level I believe he is going to do his homework. It will not be a flash in the pan hire and like others have stated, if all else falls through, Hoke is always there, maybe not an ace in the hole but a good card nonetheless. The 2011 schedule is very favorable and eight or nine wins with the current roster is not outside the realm to accomplish, the 2012 schedule is brutal however and that is the year the program needs to be showing enormous progress.

He said he wanted to go back to smash mouth football. The only way the team got 7 wins this year was through RR's offense. If you put a guy in there that can't utilize those offensive players as well RR could, there's no way the team gets 7 wins, especially because several players will probably transfer anyway.

The problem with hiring Hoke now is that it shows the program is rather pathetic. You could've easily gotten Hoke back in November and wouldn't have to put yourself in this situation.

Quote:

RR absolutely destroyed UM football. Lloyd had one questionable recruiting class in the year prior but thats it. Lets not forget the 11-2 season the season before Carr ended it. Otherwise they lost some quality players to the NFL that likely would have stayed and a couple big time transfers Mallet, Boren among others. The net effect of the recruiting since has been abyssmal, highly ranked classes but in the summer kids are either not getting in or deciding to leave.

RR did the best he could. He wasn't a good fit, the players he recruited didn't fit with the school. It looked like he was trying to change his ways, but it would've probably taken him several more years, and thats more than most UM fans would be willing to wait. But that's not really his fault, he was put into a poor circumstance.

As for Lloyd: neither the 06 or 07 classes were very good. As noted, Mallet was going to transfer before RR got there, and many key players were leaving for the NFL. Even if Carr had stayed for the 08 season, its unlikely that UM would've put up more than 6 or 7 wins--the talent just wasn't there. I don't really blame Bill Martin that much either--I think BM was hired to facilitate UM's stadium expansion--not hire the next football coach. Carr should've alerted the university a year or two before he planned on retirement, so that a suitable replacement could've been selected in advance, or forced himself to keep coaching for another year so that they didn't have to scramble to find a coach in a month. Its also pretty well known that Carr was instrumental in preventing Les Miles from coming here, who while I don't fully support on account of craziness, probably would've been a better fit than RR.