Plus when I saw which players were attending and were speaking on behalf of the players, I knew this was fvcked from the beginning. They represent the players who are not exactly the "rank and file" of the PA.

Plus when I saw which players were attending and were speaking on behalf of the players, I knew this was fvcked from the beginning. They represent the players who are not exactly the "rank and file" of the PA.

. Well, they made their bed. They may be arrogant to think there won't be serious long-term damage, but there will be this time around. It should be interesting to watch both sides beg for our forgiveness (again) after they eventually reach a deal, because I really think there are serious hockey fans that may not come back. Some people will have just had enough, and I really can't blame them.

I was angry at the owners before. Now, I'm furious at the players. It was pretty much acknowledged by everyone that the owners' 50/50 offer was close to their end-game, and that offering it so early in the process was meant to be a launching point that both sides could use towards ending the lockout without too much damage being done. In my opinion, the players committed a major faux pas today by essentially biting off the hand which was holding a nice juicy steak for them. It's ridiculous and it shows blatant disregard by the PA towards the fans of the sport, and of the sport itself. If the players care so much about their money that they are unwilling to see sense and try to work with the owners after they made a goodwill gesture, then I'm not too sure I want to keep supporting them.

They did, but any reasonable observer should conclude that they were trying to do that, which makes a person think about their motives all along. The players didn't win a PR battle in baseball, did they? Absolutely not - but they avoided a salary cap and made a lot more $.

I'd find it amusing (if it weren't so frustrating) that the players are so stuck up about losing 7 percent of money this year, they're going to lose 100 percent of it and have a smaller pie to fight about in 2013 when and if they come back. Bisonette and the other players better shut off their twitter for the next twelve months or so.

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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

Fehr didn't make billions of dollars for baseball players by caring about the sport or conceding on anything. And obviously hockey players want to extract vengeance for the last CBA.

That's all fine and dandy, but the fact remains that the most recent NHL offer will probably be the best they put forth. If the PA doesn't accept it or at least negotiate with it as a guideline, they will ultimately get less

Edit- unless sponsors pressure the league to get a deal done, which may be what the players are holding out hope for

I was angry at the owners before. Now, I'm furious at the players. It was pretty much acknowledged by everyone that the owners' 50/50 offer was close to their end-game, and that offering it so early in the process was a means to end the lockout without too much damage being done. In my opinion, the players committed a major faux pas today by essentially biting off the hand which was holding a nice juicy steak for them. It's ridiculous and it shows blatant disregard by the PA towards the fans of the sport, and of the sport itself. If the players care so much about their money that they are unwilling to see sense and try to work with the owners after they made a goodwill gesture, then I'm not too sure I want to keep supporting them.

So early in the process? It's mid-October. Early in the process would've been September.

You're asking people who rarely hear the word no off the rink take paycuts when the NHL is at record revenues. Neither side was ever truly serious about an 82 game season, but the owners certainly weren't. Saying this latest offer is close to end-game assumes the owners think they have nothing to lose by canceling a season, and I'm not sure I buy that.

. Well, they made their bed. They may be arrogant to think there won't be serious long-term damage, but there will be this time around. It should be interesting to watch both sides beg for our forgiveness (again) after they eventually reach a deal, because I really think there are serious hockey fans that may not come back. Some people will have just had enough, and I really can't blame them.

I might be one of them that cancels season tickets if we miss an entire season. I'm tired of this bullsh!t.

the nhl has the PR upper hand right now - the NHLPA has to release their offers to show their side and then it'll go right back to them.

that anyone thinks the owners' proposal was "fair" means that you're just not paying attention and are taking the "you're playing a game for a living for more money that most people make in their careers. you players work for me, the fan" standpoint.

players know they're taking a haircut and their's nothing they can do about it. they're trying to limit how much of their existing contracts get cut and giving them an opportunity to make more when their contracts are done. the previous analogy i gave with kovalchuk and larsson still holds, so the larsson's of the league have a voice. but the merril's have none and the players will sell those guys up the river to help themselves.

_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
-
"I guess I just miss my friend" (#28)

So early in the process? It's mid-October. Early in the process would've been September.

You're asking people who rarely hear the word no off the rink take paycuts when the NHL is at record revenues. Neither side was ever truly serious about an 82 game season, but the owners certainly weren't. Saying this latest offer is close to end-game assumes the owners think they have nothing to lose by canceling a season, and I'm not sure I buy that.

I don't think anyone expected there to be absolutely no days lost, so saying September would have been early is a little unrealistic. When we can still salvage an 82 game season, I call that early. In the last lockout, these sorts of offers weren't made for another 6 months.

And your second statement about asking players who rarely hear no to take paycuts when the NHL is at record revenues just shows how out of touch the players are with reality. The owners aren't lying when they say that most teams can't make money and that the current system is unsustainable. By offering the 50/50 deal, the owners put a lot of their cards out on the table, and I think they expected the same from the players. The 50/50 offer was in no way great for the players, but it was a legitimate starting point for serious negotiations. For the players to essentially spit on that shows a lack of willingness from the players to settle on a reasonable deal that can work for both sides. That's not how you do negotiations when something really matters to you (ie, your fans and the sport you play).

I was on the PA's side but they clearly don't care to really get a deal done.. Screw the players

You're entitled to your opinion. I would just advise against filming yourself urinating on your jersey like some other gentleman who likes to post here did with his Parise jersey.

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I collect spores, molds and fungus.Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

NHLPA seems to be acting petulantly in this process. The NHLPA refused to give an offer, forcing the NHL to counter their own offer, then the NHLPA has apparently presented 3 offers that don't have anything do with what the NHL has been offering. It doesn't seem to me that the NHLPA is seriously negotiating towards a solution if my outside impression matches what's happening.

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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind

Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

NHLPA seems to be acting petulantly in this process. The NHLPA refused to give an offer, forcing the NHL to counter their own offer, then the NHLPA has apparently presented 3 offers that don't have anything do with what the NHL has been offering. It doesn't seem to me that the NHLPA is seriously negotiating towards a solution if my outside impression matches what's happening.

But just remember, the PA backers will just use their usual battle cry of "its just a PR war by the NHL!!"

Calculated or not, the NHL did indeed make the last offer and stepped to the plate with something that could at least be a starting point for further negotiations. The NHLPA however could care less.

Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind

Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.