SkinsJock wrote:really - I am admittedly optimistic but I don't see my optimism as being extreme ...

I would say you tend towards extremely optimistic...

SkinsJock wrote:we are nowhere near as bad as we looked last season - the reasons for that will not be a part of this franchise this season

We might have been better than 3-13, but in all honesty I don't think we were much better than that record. For that reason, I sort of agree with some of what RayNAustin is saying (and you as well). There were more than a few weak links on the team last year that I'm eager to see replaced.

to clarify a little - I'm wrong in saying we're not as bad as our record - that's a fact

because of some key players here, with a few changes (and I expect a huge turnover) this franchise will see a much better product on the field this season - Jay Gruden and Jim Haslett would win more than 3 games with the same roster as last year is what I'm getting at

Nobody really expects the Redskins to do well - 8 wins is a winning season with Dan Snyder Since 1999, 19 seasons 132-171-1 - this is an average of less than 7 wins per season

chiefhog44 wrote:I would love to pick up Chris Clemons and Tarrel Brown on the cheap. This free agency confirms IMO that Snyder is completely OUT of the picture. Finished. We are finally building this correctly.

It's WAY too early to say that we are building "correctly." By all accounts we were really interested in Mitchell but didn't get him, so who knows if this was our plan all along or if we've just failed to execute our plan. Besides, I don't think that there is any magical formula for building a team "correctly."

I think his point that "Snyder is completely OUT of the picture" is why he is saying we are building this correctly. No argument from me there.

Regarding Mitchell, I don't see how his signing with Pittsburgh would mean we didn't execute our plan correctly. We can be interested in and want to sign any player we want. But if that guy wants too much money or - in this case - just prefers to play in Pittsburgh (and who can freaking blame him?) I think executing the plan correctly means that you don't push the panic button and chase/overpay that guy. You move on to the next player.

Nobody outside of Snyder, Bruce, and handful of people at Redskins Park know what Snyder's roll is. It's absurd to say that he is completely out of the picture, let alone to base that opinion off of one day of free agency.

And I never said that Mitchell signing with Pittsburgh means we didn't execute our plan correctly. My point is that as fans we have no idea what their plan is, and as far as we know they could be executing their plan (good or bad) perfectly or failing miserably. I used Mitchell as an example because he was widely rumored to be one of our main targets and he signed a reasonable deal with Pittsburgh.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Nobody outside of Snyder, Bruce, and handful of people at Redskins Park know what Snyder's roll is. It's absurd to say that he is completely out of the picture, let alone to base that opinion off of one day of free agency.

True. I think it's safe to say that he's not out of control anymore. I'd think it's also safe to say that through Bruce, the opinions of the experts is now heard and given weight.

Disclaimer: RANT INCOMING

I said this a page or so ago, maybe not in this thread. And I heard ey say it on the radio. FYI, this isn't aimed at anyone in particular.

MIKE MITCHELL WANTED TO PLAY FOR PITTSBURGH. MIKE WANTED TO PLAY IN PITT. HE WANTED TO PLAY FOR THAT DEFENSE.

It was NOT due to any deficiency on our FO's part that he was not signed.

SHOCKING REVELATION INCOMING NFL free agency is not indentured servitude, nor is it a slave auction where people go to the highest bidder. Players care about things other than money. Players have thoughts. Players who emotions. They choose. They drink. They breathe air. Just because we didn't land someone doesn't mean we're incompetent or didn't try.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Nobody outside of Snyder, Bruce, and handful of people at Redskins Park know what Snyder's roll is. It's absurd to say that he is completely out of the picture, let alone to base that opinion off of one day of free agency.

True. I think it's safe to say that he's not out of control anymore. I'd think it's also safe to say that through Bruce, the opinions of the experts is now heard and given weight.

Disclaimer: RANT INCOMING

I said this a page or so ago, maybe not in this thread. And I heard ey say it on the radio. FYI, this isn't aimed at anyone in particular.

MIKE MITCHELL WANTED TO PLAY FOR PITTSBURGH. MIKE WANTED TO PLAY IN PITT. HE WANTED TO PLAY FOR THAT DEFENSE.

It was NOT due to any deficiency on our FO's part that he was not signed.

SHOCKING REVELATION INCOMING NFL free agency is not indentured servitude, nor is it a slave auction where people go to the highest bidder. Players care about things other than money. Players have thoughts. Players who emotions. They choose. They drink. They breathe air. Just because we didn't land someone doesn't mean we're incompetent or didn't try.

That's a perfectly legitimate excuse for one player ... how about the other dozen safeties and corners? Same thing?

RayNAustin wrote:That's a perfectly legitimate excuse for one player ... how about the other dozen safeties and corners? Same thing?

Why would it only be a legitimate "excuse" for one player? You can accept that Mitchell is a player and "Players care about things other than money. Players have thoughts. Players who emotions. They choose. They drink. They breathe air." but that same thing doesn't apply to any of the other free agents out there?

I'm not sure its really an "excuse" for anything anyway, its just a fact of life. Free agent football players get to choose where they play. It shouldn't be surprising that we're missing out on some guys who want to go play for perceived contenders like the Broncos, Patriots, Saints or even the Steelers.

If we're not going to be every free agent's lottery ticket/payday, we gotta be honest that we're not the most attractive destination for top free agents right now.

I get your frustration though, man. Not hitting on ANYBODY at safety yet is killing me.

RayNAustin wrote:That's a perfectly legitimate excuse for one player ... how about the other dozen safeties and corners? Same thing?

Why would it only be a legitimate "excuse" for one player? You can accept that Mitchell is a player and "Players care about things other than money. Players have thoughts. Players who emotions. They choose. They drink. They breathe air." but that same thing doesn't apply to any of the other free agents out there?

I'm not sure its really an "excuse" for anything anyway, its just a fact of life. Free agent football players get to choose where they play. It shouldn't be surprising that we're missing out on some guys who want to go play for perceived contenders like the Broncos, Patriots, Saints or even the Steelers.

If we're not going to be every free agent's lottery ticket/payday, we gotta be honest that we're not the most attractive destination for top free agents right now.

I get your frustration though, man. Not hitting on ANYBODY at safety yet is killing me.

I'm with you on that, and that's the source of my frustration ... failing to land a safety needed so badly, with half a dozen available!

But I'm not buying the idea that the Redskins are perceived as a struggling franchise, not far removed from a dysfunctional Raider team. Last year aside, the Redskins won the NFC East, and were on the verge of blowing out Seattle in the playoffs before RG3 came up lame. And aside his struggles last year, I think it's safe to say he is still perceived as, and expected to be a top tier talent in the league, with most of the pieces in place to have a resurgence this year under the guidance of Gruden.

Everybody knows that it was the defense last year that collapsed, taking the team down with it ... a lame duck staff on it's way out, and a team forced to field incompetent players in the defensive backfield because of a crippling cap penalty.

The reality is, if any team might be expected to bounce back, that could surely be applied to the Redskins, and especially given the status of it's division opponents, with only the Eagles being a threat. The Cowboys are toast, and the Giants not far behind.

There are many ifs here ... if Robert can return to rookie form ... if the defense can figure it out ... if the new staff has some magic up their sleeve ... but the biggest if could have been transformed from being our biggest liability to a position of strength had the FO been more successful/aggressive in addressing the secondary holes.

That's particularly true given the Hatcher signing which upgraded an already decent defensive front 7. Signing a guy like Byrd would have fixed the most glarring deficiency on this defense. A game changing player at free safety can transform a handful of close losses into wins, especially in this new NFL and it's pass happy new face.

There are no unimportant positions on the field, but a few critical ones that sub par talent cannot be fixed with schemes ... QB on offense ... a dominant wide receiver ... a pass rushing beast, and your last line of defense ... free safety. These are impact positions that can neutralize an opponent's strengths and advantage, and change the outcome of games. It can be the difference between 8-8 or 12-4.

Give me a break - let's give the guys in charge here (and the coaching staff) more credit ... the FO and coaching staff do have a clue about what they're doing and they have a plan to get it done that may not suit a bunch of fans and it is worth discussing but it's way too early to think that they have done a bad job in not signing some players we all think they should have

it's going to take time - we no longer add the BPA - we are OBVIOUSLY trying to add those that these guys think will 'fit'

more evidence that Dan Snyder is not involved with anything to do with the coaching or players or what goes on 'on the field'

Nobody really expects the Redskins to do well - 8 wins is a winning season with Dan Snyder Since 1999, 19 seasons 132-171-1 - this is an average of less than 7 wins per season

Where should we spend Dans money? I wish he would take care of my debt but seeing as I don't think that will ever happen I think they have done the best they could so far filling as many wholes as possible. It will take time guys. I am as tired as hearing that as you are but truth is truth.

PAPDOG67 wrote:RayNaustin, I am with you. We desperately need a FS and/or secondary help. I don't know if over paying for Byrd was the answer, but there were other safety options out there, and we seemed to be asleep at the wheel.

SkinsJock wrote:it seems that the guys in charge are not going to spend money on free agents like the Redskins used to ...

we have a lot of needs but these guys seem to be making sure that if they really find a player that they want they'll have the money to go get him

It looks like restraint and sanity, both of which are good things. I think its also smart to admit that we're not like "one good player" away from being good. It might make sense for the Broncos or Saints to drop $56m on a Jairus Byrd to put their team over the top. Definitely not the case in Washington.