Really? That McVey believed a "tyrannical government is fucking up the country" doesn't stand out and isn't memorable? That for McVey it was, in large part, retribution for the Waco siege and Ruby Ridge that he thought were examples of that tyranny?

I'm not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories but I think it is imperative to point out the inconsistencies and large voids in this story.And this comes from a highly reputable media outlet. I prefer RT to BBC

British_Pharaoh wrote:I'm not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories but I think it is imperative to point out the inconsistencies and large voids in this story.And this comes from a highly reputable media outlet. I prefer RT to BBC

No shit there are voids in the media's knowledge of the story. Shockingly, not EVERYTHING in the case has leaked yet. That doesn't mean it's a conspiracy theory, it just means that there are aspects of the case that the "highly reputable" media outlet isn't aware of yet.

Again, why do people assume that less than 7 days after the attack and less than 72 hrs after the suspects were killed/captured, that the media knows everything already? They're taking the 20% they know and making up the other 80%, and you wonder why things don't add up?? Grow up.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

Yeah the conspiracy of the pictures of them carrying and dropping the bombs. The conspiracy of executing a cop for unknown reasons, car jacking someone, getting into a high speed chase with the cops in which bombs are tossed from the suspects' car and ending in a shootout with the police...

And i'm sorry, bu Russia Today is a terrible source. They cater to the Ron Paul afraid of the government types.

British_Pharaoh wrote:I'm not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories but I think it is imperative to point out the inconsistencies and large voids in this story.And this comes from a highly reputable media outlet. I prefer RT to BBC

No shit there are voids in the media's knowledge of the story. Shockingly, not EVERYTHING in the case has leaked yet. That doesn't mean it's a conspiracy theory, it just means that there are aspects of the case that the "highly reputable" media outlet isn't aware of yet.

Again, why do people assume that less than 7 days after the attack and less than 72 hrs after the suspects were killed/captured, that the media knows everything already? They're taking the 20% they know and making up the other 80%, and you wonder why things don't add up?? Grow up.

I'm just passing along the material

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

British_Pharaoh wrote:I'm not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories but I think it is imperative to point out the inconsistencies and large voids in this story.And this comes from a highly reputable media outlet. I prefer RT to BBC

No shit there are voids in the media's knowledge of the story. Shockingly, not EVERYTHING in the case has leaked yet. That doesn't mean it's a conspiracy theory, it just means that there are aspects of the case that the "highly reputable" media outlet isn't aware of yet.

Again, why do people assume that less than 7 days after the attack and less than 72 hrs after the suspects were killed/captured, that the media knows everything already? They're taking the 20% they know and making up the other 80%, and you wonder why things don't add up?? Grow up.

I'm just passing along the material

Yes. You're passing the 'material' to someone who was actually involved in the event, the investigation and the gathering of the information and who spent 80+ hours over the course of the 100 hours that it took from explosion to capture.

There's a chance he may know a bit more than you do or I do.

Of course, to those pre-disposed to such lunacy, it probably means he's just part of the conspiracy.

Really? That McVey believed a "tyrannical government is fucking up the country" doesn't stand out and isn't memorable? That for McVey it was, in large part, retribution for the Waco siege and Ruby Ridge that he thought were examples of that tyranny?

I read the RT story, and while it paints a sympathetic portrait of the Tsarnaev brothers, it's no different from the "they were such nice boys" treatment that they are getting in U.S. media...and it exposes no real gaping holes in the account we're coming to understand as the way things went.

NBC News (one of the more responsible outlets on this story, IMO) reported in the last 24 hours that Tamerlan was seen making six visits with a radical Islamist at a mosque in Dagestan during his 6-month stay in Russia last year. The Russians were sufficiently concerned about him to alert the FBI about his recent radicalization...his drastic personality change, etc....a rare move on the part of the Russians, I understand.

There's a term for the worldview that has people still searching for a motive...and Andy McCarthy, the AUSA who prosecuted the Blind Sheik Rahman and the first WTC bombers, wrote a book with it as its title...

Willful Blindness

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Might I propose for those in the states on a student visa or without citizenship that they are absolutely and undeniably permitted to leave the country for a place such as Yemen or Chechnya or Mogadishu or anywhere else they feel called to visit.

No issues whatsoever.

They're just not permitted back in this country.

Citizens can come and go. Anyone is welcome.

But non citizens and those here on work/educational visas get a ticket to the ballgame if they want one. Just stamped with No Re-Admittance.

And yes, not following up more exhaustively on the older brother was a big mistake. But I read in a number of places and heard Giuliani say that the Russians inundated US authorities with names of Chechens in hopes of drawing US a bit deeper into that dispute in hopes US would ultimately assist Russians if not in principle at least in action.

I agree Dan. With the info we have right now, I don't see how it could be anything other than a crazy Islamic Jihadist who decided to fullfil whatever he thought his destiny was. If it barks like a duck and farts like a duck and all that...

What is harder to understand is how the dude convinced little bro to participate. He doesn't seem like a radical, so how did he get brainwashed so completely that he didn't take a step back and try to put a stop to the whole thing?

motherscratcher wrote:I agree Dan. With the info we have right now, I don't see how it could be anything other than a crazy Islamic Jihadist who decided to fullfil whatever he thought his destiny was. If it barks like a duck and farts like a duck and all that...

What is harder to understand is how the dude convinced little bro to participate. He doesn't seem like a radical, so how did he get brainwashed so completely that he didn't take a step back and try to put a stop to the whole thing?

You have an older or younger brother? Not being a dick, just asking. I think a kid in that age range of younger brother still looks up to big brother and is right in the wheelhouse of being impressionable and seeing his world view changing.

Maybe it never got to the fervor of big brother and maybe not at all, really. Maybe it was always about impressing the older one and measuring up to him?

Can we stop using the term "braiwashed?" It's just a fancy term for "convinced" that makes it seem like we're trying to absolve the person for his/her actions, suggesting that some sort of supernatural, irresistable force was at work here.

Maybe I'm overreacting.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

motherscratcher wrote:I agree Dan. With the info we have right now, I don't see how it could be anything other than a crazy Islamic Jihadist who decided to fullfil whatever he thought his destiny was. If it barks like a duck and farts like a duck and all that...

What is harder to understand is how the dude convinced little bro to participate. He doesn't seem like a radical, so how did he get brainwashed so completely that he didn't take a step back and try to put a stop to the whole thing?

You have an older or younger brother? Not being a dick, just asking. I think a kid in that age range of younger brother still looks up to big brother and is right in the wheelhouse of being impressionable and seeing his world view changing.

Maybe it never got to the fervor of big brother and maybe not at all, really. Maybe it was always about impressing the older one and measuring up to him?

No idea. But it's a thought.

I'm 27 and have a 19 year old brother. I'm pretty sure I can convince him to do just about anything.

motherscratcher wrote:I agree Dan. With the info we have right now, I don't see how it could be anything other than a crazy Islamic Jihadist who decided to fullfil whatever he thought his destiny was. If it barks like a duck and farts like a duck and all that...

What is harder to understand is how the dude convinced little bro to participate. He doesn't seem like a radical, so how did he get brainwashed so completely that he didn't take a step back and try to put a stop to the whole thing?

You have an older or younger brother? Not being a dick, just asking. I think a kid in that age range of younger brother still looks up to big brother and is right in the wheelhouse of being impressionable and seeing his world view changing.

Maybe it never got to the fervor of big brother and maybe not at all, really. Maybe it was always about impressing the older one and measuring up to him?

No idea. But it's a thought.

I do have an older brother, and I get the whole "looking up to him" angle. It obviously has something (a lot...everything?) to do with what happened here. It's just a whole 'nother level that I can't understand and fathom.

motherscratcher wrote:I agree Dan. With the info we have right now, I don't see how it could be anything other than a crazy Islamic Jihadist who decided to fullfil whatever he thought his destiny was. If it barks like a duck and farts like a duck and all that...

What is harder to understand is how the dude convinced little bro to participate. He doesn't seem like a radical, so how did he get brainwashed so completely that he didn't take a step back and try to put a stop to the whole thing?

You have an older or younger brother? Not being a dick, just asking. I think a kid in that age range of younger brother still looks up to big brother and is right in the wheelhouse of being impressionable and seeing his world view changing.

Maybe it never got to the fervor of big brother and maybe not at all, really. Maybe it was always about impressing the older one and measuring up to him?

No idea. But it's a thought.

I'm 27 and have a 19 year old brother. I'm pretty sure I can convince him to do just about anything.

really? You could convince him to set a bomb down in the middle of a crowded sidewalk and walk away?

motherscratcher wrote:I agree Dan. With the info we have right now, I don't see how it could be anything other than a crazy Islamic Jihadist who decided to fullfil whatever he thought his destiny was. If it barks like a duck and farts like a duck and all that...

What is harder to understand is how the dude convinced little bro to participate. He doesn't seem like a radical, so how did he get brainwashed so completely that he didn't take a step back and try to put a stop to the whole thing?

You have an older or younger brother? Not being a dick, just asking. I think a kid in that age range of younger brother still looks up to big brother and is right in the wheelhouse of being impressionable and seeing his world view changing.

Maybe it never got to the fervor of big brother and maybe not at all, really. Maybe it was always about impressing the older one and measuring up to him?

No idea. But it's a thought.

I'm 27 and have a 19 year old brother. I'm pretty sure I can convince him to do just about anything.

really? You could convince him to set a bomb down in the middle of a crowded sidewalk and walk away?

gotribe31 wrote:Can we stop using the term "braiwashed?" It's just a fancy term for "convinced" that makes it seem like we're trying to absolve the person for his/her actions, suggesting that some sort of supernatural, irresistable force was at work here.

Maybe I'm overreacting.

Not trying to absolve anyone of anything. And I used the word "convinced" in my post also. But that word doesn't, on the face of it, appear to do what happened here justice. Unless Little bro was being radicalized WITH Big Bro...I'm not sure what other word to use in this situation.

My brother could "convince" me to do a lot of goofy shit. I don't think anyone could simply "convince" the vast majority of humans to do what happened here.

Again, it doesn't absolve personal responsibility, and the difference is pretty much semantic, but was Patty Hearst merely "convinced"?

If you're inclined to criticize the FBI and/or DHS for "allowing" these attackers to slip through the crack, it may be humbling to consider the dozens of attacks they have been able to thwart (or that otherwise failed) through aggressive counter-terrorism policies.

Here's a partial listing (at least 53 of them since 9/11...that we know about)

peeker643 wrote: I think a kid in that age range of younger brother still looks up to big brother and is right in the wheelhouse of being impressionable and seeing his world view changing.

Maybe it never got to the fervor of big brother and maybe not at all, really. Maybe it was always about impressing the older one and measuring up to him?

My wife's take, from the day the FBI released the photos. She is definitely on the "law and order" side of most conversations, but kept saying "this is such a mess" and hoped the younger brother could be taken alive - not to get info, so much, but because she thinks he actually was a victim, in a sense. I think the photos showing his puppy dog eyes may have been a factor- sure. But still.

Really? That McVey believed a "tyrannical government is fucking up the country" doesn't stand out and isn't memorable? That for McVey it was, in large part, retribution for the Waco siege and Ruby Ridge that he thought were examples of that tyranny?

Really and no.

Some things are just more important to twerps than they are to everyone else.

And for clarification, the Twerphood is only for people that think that information that is apparently important to them must be important to everyone else, not necessarily whether or not you personally found McVeigh's motives interesting enough to commit to long-term memory.

I mean, I assumed it was something either anti-government or overly-religious, but I never found myself interested enough in wacko motives to keep them straight.

Really? That McVey believed a "tyrannical government is fucking up the country" doesn't stand out and isn't memorable? That for McVey it was, in large part, retribution for the Waco siege and Ruby Ridge that he thought were examples of that tyranny?

Really and no.

Some things are just more important to twerps than they are to everyone else.

And for clarification, the Twerphood is only for people that think that information that is apparently important to them must be important to everyone else, not necessarily whether or not you personally found McVeigh's motives interesting enough to commit to long-term memory.

I mean, I assumed it was something either anti-government or overly-religious, but I never found myself interested enough in wacko motives to keep them straight.

You're the guy that don't need the will cause you feel fine.

You don't need to get the lump in your groin checked that's been causing you to piss blood for a month cause the doctor might tell you something's wrong.

Hard to bothered by things you don't know about, I guess.

And clearly people who do know what motivated Tim McVeigh hide under their beds in fear of brown people on airplanes and cling to their wubbies.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Maybe they can go a step further since the bombers were on welfare, perhaps there is a link between those taking welfare and Alex Jones. The evil government that bankrolls you each month with a few petro-dollars, we want to blow up.

The only issue I find a bit puzzling is why we put those picture out as if we didn't know who the two guys were at first. The Russkies had been turning stuff over on the older one for quite some time. They knew what was up, the plea to the public was just a show.

They are saying that one reason they released the photos was to end the nutty speculation by "Joe Citizen" on sites like Reddit, (and outlets like the NY Post) who were well-intended but were posting photos of people the FBI knew to be NOT the guys, and causing grief for several completely innocent people.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Here's one thing that's been puzzling me: The Russians warned us about the older brother, yet he traveled to Russia after that, and they never picked him up or anything. I figured the FSB would have been on him like stink on shit.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Here's one thing that's been puzzling me: The Russians warned us about the older brother, yet he traveled to Russia after that, and they never picked him up or anything. I figured the FSB would have been on him like stink on shit.

This times a thousand. If they were really that worried about him, he'd have never come back.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

danwismar wrote:They are saying that one reason they released the photos was to end the nutty speculation by "Joe Citizen" on sites like Reddit, (and outlets like the NY Post) who were well-intended but were posting photos of people the FBI knew to be NOT the guys, and causing grief for several completely innocent people.

Oh yeah the folks on 4chan had the case closed 24 hours before the chase started. Wrong guys of course but what the hell.

My heart is pumping. People said photos of the bombing site before the detonations were chilling.THIS is chilling.

I wonder if the guy laughs about some of that stuff, in retrospect.Like the attempts at telepathy to the cops. Why not try it- don't get me wrong, I would.I'd be trying telepathy, telekinesis, any tele- I could think of.

FWIW, running the Pittsburgh Marathon next Sunday, and am getting daily e-mails regarding security. No John Q Publics allowed within a block of the start/Finish area, all bag drop items must be in the CLEAR bag they provide. And any opaque backpacks in that area are subject to search.

By tomorrow they'll probably be more rules.

For the major city marathons, like Chicago, New york etc. where the crowded areas span out much farther than the start/finish area, you're talking big bucks.

In other words, the taxpayers in these cities are going to be footing the bill, cause tacking on a few bucks to the registration fee ain't gonna cut it.

This horrible act of terrorism, a midst our nation wide gun debate, brings up an interesting set of questions as to how we deal with terrorism (both in policy and financial costs) relative to our approach to "gun violence".

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Another mystery revealed. We finally know what led Russian authorities to warn the U.S. government about Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the elder brother suspected of carrying out the Boston Marathon bombing. Russia secretly recorded two phone calls involving the suspect’s mother. In one of them, Tsarnaev “briefly discussed jihad with his mother,” reports the Associated Press, which was the first to break the story. In the other, Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, Tamerlan’s mother, was recorded talking to someone in southern Russia who was already under investigation by the FBI in an unrelated case.

Intelligence officials have also come across text messages in which the mother discussed how Tamerlan is ready to die for Islam, according to two Newsday sources.

The FBI has only learned about these phone calls, which never discussed specific plans nor attacks within the United States, after the bombings. In 2011, all Russian authorities said was they were concerned the mother-son duo had become religious extremists. The FBI requested more information after interviewing Tamerlan but received no further cooperation from Russian officials, who later went to the CIA with the same information. The mother and son were placed in late 2011 on the Terror Identities Datamart Environment database, a low-level watch list that contains some half-a-million names.

Now the question is whether the FBI or the CIA would have taken the warnings more seriously had they known about the recorded phone calls. “Would we have gone farther?” a law enforcement official tells the New York Times. “Maybe, maybe not.”

A new longish piece at NYRB site, with more background into the Tsarnaev family, by a reporter who has interviewed lots of people in the Boston Chechen community...including the mysterious "Misha" who supposedly had a part in radicalizing Tamerlan...(turns out, not so much...it was more the Internet videos he was watching)

Still some of that "willful blindness" syndrome by the writer, even while she acknowledges the Islamic radicalization, and notes the influence of al-Awlaki, the same cleric who inspired the Ft Hood shooter and others to commit acts of terrorism...

"The biggest question surrounding the marathon bombings, of course, is the one of motive: Why did they do it? I’m not entirely sure that we will ever have a satisfying answer."