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Conversion Rate Optimization

How would you run a kick-off call with a client if you were a master of psychology and persuasion?

That’s what I wondered before today’s meeting with Dr. Flint McGlaughlin.

What would he be like? (Spoiler: charming.)

How tense would it be having my copy exposed to the founder of conversion optimization?

But mostly, what would I learn?

This all started a few weeks ago when my client asked if I could hop on a call. It was impromptu and both owners were on screen.

We’d been back and forth optimizing their landing pages since December… pages that drive 90% of the business of a mid-sized firm. Those pages have generated a lot of revenue, but they’re under pressure to perform.

We talked about bringing in a CRO agency to run tests. My client went one further and hired MECLABS.

This is something like telling a client they should get a video made…

And they hire Martin Scorsese.

But aren’t you already a conversion rate optimizer?

Yes, but I don’t work alone.

A conversion copywriter generates theories of what will convert based on data.

But it takes experts in analytics to make sure the quantitative side is accurate and interpret those insights…

And it takes advanced testing to validate or invalidate the conversion theories.

Alright, let’s dive right into breaking down the call, for any of you who sell services or expertise.

Running a kick-off call like Flint McGlaughlin

There’s no one right way to run a kick-off call.

But, I think there are key ingredients. As with any marketing that’s aimed at nurturing a lead or new prospect, you want to build that “know, like and trust” factor.

It’s important to:

Get aligned on shared goals

Make others feel good, so they feel good about you

Share the main “reasons to believe” in your authority

Build trust in the process that will deliver results

Manage expectations

Because this is all so fresh, I’m simply documenting here the strategies I saw Flint leverage, broken down into persuasion techniques.

Build rapport

Shameless confession. I planned to take a screenshot of Flint – historic moment – but he was off-camera. Gah!

When you’re already at the top of your game, you don’t have to play by all the rules.

But none of us are exempt from making others feel good. Even if you’re the father of conversion rate optimization.

That’s why I’m wary of kick-offs that are presentations. Because it should be a conversation that builds a relationship.

Flint was patient, interested, charming…

Instead of tearing down our pages, he pointed out what was right and where he sees opportunity.

People need that – they need to feel safe with your expertise and that starts in the kick-off.

Reinforce value

After the intros, Flint introduced the value conversation. The payoff my client could expect.

Anytime a client has made an investment, you’re selling belief that it was the right choice. (Selling against buyer’s regret.)

Flint said, “I’m going to talk in big, round numbers here.” And then he referred to realistic conversion lifts of 10% or more. What would that be worth to you?

But he made it safe for my client to respond. “Just gross revenue”, he said.

And the client responded with a number that Flint said would make it easy for them to get back their investment in the intensive.

Smart. Let’s anchor our pricing like Flint more often.

Demonstrate authority in multiple ways

After the value question, Flint spoke of how he worked with Verizon for four years, for a fee of $1M per month and was able to measure the financial upside of such a huge investment.

Then, he quickly connected that case with my client’s case saying that even though the numbers are on a different scale, my client’s business is big enough to get an ROI.

So, he used impressive proof to 1) make the client’s investment seem small and the opportunity incredible, 2) generate excitement around outcomes.

But Flint didn’t just drop this one reason to believe. He wove demonstrations of authority throughout the call.

For example:

“We’re an institute”

I raised $138M for research

We ran 20k experiments

We have a protocol

Multiple case studies with lifts in conversion

“Yesterday I ran a meta-analysis of hundreds of experiments on CTAs”

And the naturalness! The humility! It was a masterclass. Chalk that up to Southern charm… and a doctorate in divinity at Jesuit school.

We can never drop our authority in an engagement – even while we’re warm, empathetic, collaborative. Because clients have to learn to trust the experts fully – at every step – or they can inadvertently sabotage the efforts and the lack of trust becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Prove scarcity

We’ve all seen fake scarcity.

It’s in the evergreen countdown timers for offers that only expire until we get back into the funnel.

It’s in the faux-casual social post claiming, “only so much time left on my calendar – get in while you can”.

Flint said, “I’ll only take two to three more partners this year. Even though we get hundreds of inquiries per month.”

This is the kind of message you’d usually see before the sale, but it works here, too. Again, because buyer’s regret is real.

Even if buyers are fully paid up for a service, dissatisfaction is a risk. Not just because of our reputation as service providers or because of refund requests. But because those who fully buy-in get the best results.

And then, he backed it up with a story about launching his lab when everyone else said no. Cambridge wouldn’t invest. Oxford said no.

These were the early days of the internet and no one else saw that the web could be a living lab to study decision processes.

So, Flint self-funded… and pioneered the CRO industry.

What Flint delivered in maybe one minute was a) a single, powerful statement about what he does better than anyone else, and b) a story that delivers another reason to believe.

And he inserted that key point more than once in the call.

E.g. “The only thing I can do is bring what I’ve learned from 30 years of asking one thing: why people say yes.”

It’s also the excerpt under his name on LinkedIn.

Is it his value prop? We’ll find out when we learn the MECLABS method for crafting value propositions.

Set expectations

Conversion rate optimization can create unrealistic expectations.

But any good CRO will tell you that not every test wins. It’s an iterative learning process where you get progressively closer to the truth of what converts.

Flint needed to set that expectation in a memorable way. (Because people will selectively remember.)

So, he showed two variations on a landing page and asked each of us to guess which won.

Turns out, the control (the client’s original page) won. MECLABS’ test page showed a 41% decrease in conversions.

But it was just the first test.

MECLABS took what they learned from the first test to create a second test, which generated a 74% lift over the control.

While telling this story, Flint touched on the process MECLABS patented, so he was selling the process, educating (making us better clients) and setting expectations all with one demonstration.

One-up them with your goals

Any client engagement with fuzzy goals is dangerous.

And by goals, I don’t mean outputs. It’s tempting to talk about the things we’ll get done. What we’ll hand over. The website, the funnel, the brand book.

But in the kick-off call we should focus on goals in terms of the value we’ll create.

In Flint’s case, the three goals he established are:

1) to generate an ROI on the engagement,

2) to transfer knowledge to our team so we can learn the system to drive growth,

3) to build a model of the customer’s mind, so we can keep getting higher conversions after the engagement with MECLABS wraps up.

But Flint first asked what the client’s goals are to make sure they’re aligned. That’s key. We need agreement on goals before moving forward.

From a sales perspective, the fact that Flint had three goals where the client had one (ROI) is part of the magic. It conveys a level of commitment and vision higher even than ours.

Essentially, “Great, we’re aligned on this one simple goal, and we’ll 100% achieve that. But I want more for you.”

Be surprising

A bit of the unexpected shakes people up.

Dropping counterintuitive information also reinforces your authority. It makes us aware of the wider gap between what we know and what the expert knows.

Flint, for example, showed a control page that ticked off best practices against a test page that wasn’t obviously better. But the test page won.

(Most of us in the business of optimization are accustomed to this – we don’t know until we test. But most clients have been trained to trust opinions and preferences.)

The effect? He’s building a mystery… and we can’t wait to get behind the curtain.

Kick-offs aren’t administrative meetings

Our temptation might be to get down to process and planning. The sale is over, right?

The sale is never over.

Flint spent 90% of the call on what I’d categorize as persuasion and indoctrination – everything that goes into nurturing the sale.

Only at the end did he touch on dates, outputs and Flint’s methodology.

If you’ve ever seen the MECLABS materials, you’ll know they fall into the category of what Joanna Wiebe might call “sciencing the sh*t out of it”.

Case in point:

“The Conversion Sequence Heuristic is part of a patented, repeatable methodology (patent number 8,155,995) developed by Flint McGlaughlin, CEO and Managing Director, MECLABS Institute, based on years of testing and research of real product and service offers presented to real customers.

C = 4m + 3v + 2(i-f) – 2a“

That sort of proprietary process wizardry has sold a lot of consulting services… And leaning on process does, in fact, have a place later in the sale when people are looking for reasons to say “no”.

That’s exactly how Flint uses it. He doesn’t lead with the mad scientist equations. They’re just there, in the close, showing you he’s not ad-libbing here.

If you make the client work, do it like Flint

I know a lot of copywriters require client questionnaires. I used to as well, but now I take notes from meetings because I can get more out of the discussion with probing.

Flint has a client questionnaire. But he immediately framed it in terms of client benefits: “I don’t want to waste your time or be arrogant”, so I want to have this information on hand.

Let others take care of the money

Sometimes it makes sense for us to be the ones who talk about money with clients proactively. But I think it depends on your status.

Flint’s persona is the disinterested scientist. I have no reason to believe he’s anything else, but I did notice in the call that he actively projected that idea of himself.

He suggested indifference to profits, mentioned he doesn’t have a sales team, that no one works on commission. He’s spent a lifetime dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge.

So, when there was an opportunity to talk about a cross-sell, it was interesting to see how he handled it.

My client has engaged MECLABS for the Quick Win Intensive but the lab also offers a strategic Value Proposition Intensive.

Flint sold the benefits of doing both, but he deferred to his staff to work out the pricing and details.

That strikes me as a power move. He’s positioning himself as the expert, not the salesman.

Let’s talk about the common mistakes e-tailers are making on product landing pages from PPC ads. (Briefly, because it’s December 10th and I’m just getting started holiday shopping!)

In the video below, you’ll see what happens when I type in a very specific shopping search: “youth cotton maple leafs hoodie pullover”. It’s the kind of search a visitor with high-intent makes.

If you’re in e-commerce, you want to optimize your ads and pages for these high-intent visitors because they are ready to buy.

But… some of the biggest names in e-commerce are failing to optimize product pages

Namely, I’ll talk about the shortcomings of top PPC advertisers in the sporting goods sector. (Because while there’s no accounting for taste, my kid likes sports apparel).

These include:

Canadian Tire

National Sports

Hudson’s Bay

But the issues go far beyond this short selection.

Sport Chek is one of the biggest offenders in Canadian sporting e-commerce. They have a Hotjar poll on their page, so ostensibly, they’re aware of optimization… but it’s a challenge to actually buy something from Sport Chek’s site, their product pages are so incomplete.

Officially licensed, ok, but be honest… are we talking 100% polyester here? Is it too much to ask what this hoodie is made of?

Fabric composition (by percent) is vital information to include in your description. Product photos usually do a better job of conveying how it looks, but I want to know how it feels and performs.

When I wrote copy for a luxury scarf brand, I learned that many customers didn’t know the difference between high-end and low-end materials, or how wool feels and performs differently from silk. So, sometimes in addition to including the material composition, you need to tell people what that means.

I wrote product descriptions like these to BOTH sell the benefits and explain how the features deliver

As you can see, your product description doesn’t need to read like a label just because it delivers details. Frame the features in terms of benefits. Let buyers know why your product is different and better. More of the right copy really can sell more product.

A simple heuristic for optimizing descriptions (even without user testing) is to ask yourself…

What important information is easy to obtain when you can touch and feel the product, but hard to figure out when you can’t?

How can you bring that information into the product page copy?

2. If you’re selling apparel, include useful size charts

Friends tell me they don’t buy clothes online because it’s too hard to judge fit. It doesn’t need to be that hard.

This sounds so basic but… include a size chart directly beside the product size selector.

Come on, National Sports, you can do better.

And please, for kids clothes, not the size charts based on measurements.

Chances are, the parent is the shopper and they don’t want to measure their child for a sweater. (They’re probably shopping in a precious few moments of sanity squeezed out after the children go to bed.) Parent shoppers want a size chart that includes age-range.

A “youth medium” isn’t enough for me to feel safe buying.

I have seen crazy-complicated size selectors that take you through a quiz to find your kid’s size… only to fail and tell you nothing. Keep it simple and user-friendly.

3. Tell shoppers when their product will arrive

“modern shoppers expect their purchases to show up in one or two days — or less. A recent study shows that 47% of online shoppers say they’d pay more for same-day delivery.” (Smartercx.com)

Of course, we all want fast and free shipping. Amazon has set the bar ridiculously high.

One day I saw a delivery guy high-stepping it through brambles to get to my door in spite of roadworks in front of the house. He panted out that he’d been ‘trying to deliver this for days’.

It was a single, stainless steel ice-cream scoop.

That was not one of the times when speed was essential. But holidays are.

In my search for that perfect, giftable Leafs hoodie, I’ve seen shipping speed addressed in a variety of ways. Some more effective than others.

The key question you must answer is, “When will it arrive?”

Telling me how many days it takes to pack and prepare isn’t going to get my click on the ADD TO CART button. Be clear in your copy about whether you are promising a delivery date or a ship-by date.

Canadian Tire, I really just need to know when the package will ARRIVE.

If you’re advertising to shoppers across the border, this is even more important. Delays at customs can cause far too much holiday gift anxiety.

Ideally, make a guaranteed delivery date visible from any page on the site (e.g. by using a sticky bar), like this one.

This reassuring shipping information is exactly what holiday shoppers need to know (it’s what Hudson’s Bay did right)

Last-minute online shoppers are far more likely to be interested in the delivery date than shipping costs.

Simple product page optimizations like this come down to understanding the customer’s needs, their intent, their context… At its most basic, it’s just an act of empathy.

Need to fix your e-commerce conversion rate problems?

There’s no better time to optimize than well in advance of the holiday spree… but the next best time is asap.

If you need help digging into the issues suppressing your conversions, I recommend SimplyCRO – a small, smart conversion rate optimization agency out of Sidney, Australia.

We’re currently working together on a few e-commerce optimizations projects. (I’m on the copywriting side, they’re on the data analysis and UX side.)

When you know what to look for in the quantitative data (i.e. analytics, heat maps, click tracking) and qualitative data (session recordings, open-ended survey responses, reviews and more), you can find out:

where people drop out of your funnel,

what information they’re seeking,

and what they need to read in the copy or see in images to convert at higher rates.

Alright, click play for the product page teardowns…

But don’t judge this quick-and-dirty video.

There are 14 days until Christmas and this month, I still have to write a long-form landing page, a hotel website, a long-form product sales page, multiple squeeze pages, a brand’s messaging guide, a conference presentation and a Copyhackers blog post.

So, zero time to waste on bad e-comm sites.

In case you’re curious, the site I ended up buying from is NHLShop.ca – not because they offered the best price or are the most reputable e-tailer. (I’ve never heard of the store.)

They got my purchase because they did something so simple, so essential. They delivered the information that reduced my online shopping anxiety and made the decision easier. (60% cotton, btw. I’ll take it.)

Now go forth and optimize your product pages while people like me are still shopping!

Everything I know about Baltimore and Agora Financial combined you could fit on...VIEW POST

Testimonial Slider

“From research to writing to retrospectives, Anna is an absolute pro to work with. Her copy is great. And working with her is a dream - especially if hitting deadlines and producing fab work matters to you.”

- Joanna Wiebe, Founder, Copyhackers

"We hired Anna for a day of consulting on our pitch deck to raise series A funding from top-tier investors for our AI chip. I'm happy to say her strategies and feedback were instrumental in raising a US $20M funding round. Plus, we took away conversion techniques we'll apply to all of our sales, including…

- Darrick Wiebe, CTO, Untether AI

"Neovora markets digital products and productized services to local businesses across the US. Anna worked with us to create and optimize all the copy in our funnels, from ads and lead magnets to sales pages, webinars and email marketing. She knows a lot about the art and science of online marketing and it came through…

- JR East, Neovora.com

"Anna has an innate ability to understand what we are trying to say and succinctly put those ideas into written format. Timely in her reply and enthusiastic with her participation in our projects. I would l highly recommend Anna for all your written content needs."

"Oh my goodness this is seriously PERFECT!!!!! Thank you SO MUCH Anna!!!!

XOXO, Rachel"

- Rachel McMichael, Business with Impact Society

"For years, we weren’t marketing digitally. Anna put our digital presence on the map and dramatically increased online sales within the first year of launching our new site. She was instrumental in developing winning positioning and the copy we now use everywhere."

- CEO, Natural Calm Canada

"It’s rare to find a copywriter who is both results and customer-driven. Anna is a dedicated, passionate, smart and talented writer. If you want your website to speak to your customers and convert them you should hire her yesterday."

- Talia Wolf, GetUplift

I was struggling to find words that were true to my brand AND which would resonate with my market. Anna helped me find the balance. By the end of the project, I had a "DNA" foundation with 50+ phrases that struck a chord with my market. Most important - they were tailored to where my…

- Tim Berthold, Sunny's Goldens

Anna was incredible to work with, very pro in her copy DNA process and ‘weaponized’ us with the messaging our organization needed.

- James Woller, International Executive Director, Thrive

Anna’s landing page copy has consistently brought in 40% of our firm revenues for a staff of 40+ FTEs over the past two years. These conversions have been worth 8 figures, multiple times over.

- Scott Gettis, Precision Tax Relief

Testimonial Slider

“From research to writing to retrospectives, Anna is an absolute pro to work with. Her copy is great. And working with her is a dream - especially if hitting deadlines and producing fab work matters to you.”

- Joanna Wiebe, Founder, Copyhackers

"We hired Anna for a day of consulting on our pitch deck to raise series A funding from top-tier investors for our AI chip. I'm happy to say her strategies and feedback were instrumental in raising a US $20M funding round. Plus, we took away conversion techniques we'll apply to all of our sales, including…

- Darrick Wiebe, CTO, Untether AI

"Neovora markets digital products and productized services to local businesses across the US. Anna worked with us to create and optimize all the copy in our funnels, from ads and lead magnets to sales pages, webinars and email marketing. She knows a lot about the art and science of online marketing and it came through…

- JR East, Neovora.com

"Anna has an innate ability to understand what we are trying to say and succinctly put those ideas into written format. Timely in her reply and enthusiastic with her participation in our projects. I would l highly recommend Anna for all your written content needs."

"Oh my goodness this is seriously PERFECT!!!!! Thank you SO MUCH Anna!!!!

XOXO, Rachel"

- Rachel McMichael, Business with Impact Society

"For years, we weren’t marketing digitally. Anna put our digital presence on the map and dramatically increased online sales within the first year of launching our new site. She was instrumental in developing winning positioning and the copy we now use everywhere."

- CEO, Natural Calm Canada

"It’s rare to find a copywriter who is both results and customer-driven. Anna is a dedicated, passionate, smart and talented writer. If you want your website to speak to your customers and convert them you should hire her yesterday."

- Talia Wolf, GetUplift

I was struggling to find words that were true to my brand AND which would resonate with my market. Anna helped me find the balance. By the end of the project, I had a "DNA" foundation with 50+ phrases that struck a chord with my market. Most important - they were tailored to where my…

- Tim Berthold, Sunny's Goldens

Anna was incredible to work with, very pro in her copy DNA process and ‘weaponized’ us with the messaging our organization needed.

- James Woller, International Executive Director, Thrive

Anna’s landing page copy has consistently brought in 40% of our firm revenues for a staff of 40+ FTEs over the past two years. These conversions have been worth 8 figures, multiple times over.

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Captivate Content Inc. uses remarketing services to advertise on third party websites to you after you visited our Service. We and our third-party vendors use cookies to inform, optimize and serve ads based on your past visits to our Service.

Google AdWords

Google AdWords remarketing service is provided by Google Inc.

You can opt-out of Google Analytics for Display Advertising and customize the Google Display Network ads by visiting the Google Ads Settings page: http://www.google.com/settings/ads

Google also recommends installing the Google Analytics Opt-out Browser Add-on – https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout – for your web browser. Google Analytics Opt-out Browser Add-on provides visitors with the ability to prevent their data from being collected and used by Google Analytics.

For more information on the privacy practices of Google, please visit the Google Privacy Terms web page: http://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/

Facebook

Facebook remarketing service is provided by Facebook Inc.

You can learn more about interest-based advertising from Facebook by visiting this page: https://www.facebook.com/help/164968693837950

To opt-out from Facebook’s interest-based ads follow these instructions from Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/help/568137493302217

Facebook adheres to the Self-Regulatory Principles for Online Behavioral Advertising established by the Digital Advertising Alliance. You can also opt-out from Facebook and other participating companies through the Digital Advertising Alliance in the USA http://www.aboutads.info/choices/, the Digital Advertising Alliance of Canada in Canada http://youradchoices.ca/ or the European Interactive Digital Advertising Alliance in Europe http://www.youronlinechoices.eu/, or opt-out using your mobile device settings.

For more information on the privacy practices of Facebook, please visit Facebook’s Data Policy: https://www.facebook.com/privacy/explanation

Payments

We may provide paid products and/or services within the Service. In that case, we use third-party services for payment processing (e.g. payment processors).

We will not store or collect your payment card details. That information is provided directly to our third-party payment processors whose use of your personal information is governed by their Privacy Policy. These payment processors adhere to the standards set by PCI-DSS as managed by the PCI Security Standards Council, which is a joint effort of brands like Visa, Mastercard, American Express and Discover. PCI-DSS requirements help ensure the secure handling of payment information.

The payment processors we work with are:

Stripe

Their Privacy Policy can be viewed at https://stripe.com/us/privacy

PayPal or Braintree

Their Privacy Policy can be viewed at https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/privacy-full

Links To Other Sites

Our Service may contain links to other sites that are not operated by us. If you click on a third party link, you will be directed to that third party’s site. We strongly advise you to review the Privacy Policy of every site you visit.

We have no control over and assume no responsibility for the content, privacy policies or practices of any third party sites or services.

Children’s Privacy

Our Service does not address anyone under the age of 18 (“Children”).

We do not knowingly collect personally identifiable information from anyone under the age of 18.

If you are a parent or guardian and you are aware that your Children has provided us with Personal Data, please contact us. If we become aware that we have collected Personal Data from children without verification of parental consent, we take steps to remove that information from our servers.

Changes To This Privacy Policy

We may update our Privacy Policy from time to time. We will notify you of any changes by posting the new Privacy Policy on this page.

We will let you know via email and/or a prominent notice on our Service, prior to the change becoming effective and update the “effective date” at the top of this Privacy Policy.

You are advised to review this Privacy Policy periodically for any changes. Changes to this Privacy Policy are effective when they are posted on this page.

Contact Us

If you have any questions about this Privacy Policy, please contact us: