Sorry but as the link earlier today mentioned Ted Yoho said "I think, personally, a U.S. default on its national debt would bring stability to the world markets", and over all these experts I would trust Ted Yoho....if I'm insane.

Problem: the people who elected them think this is just great. As John Oliver put it- "They could poison a basket of kittens in front of another basket of kittens, just to make them watch, and still get re-elected."

Slaxl:If I was a billionaire with everything to lose I'd bribe the/an army to replace the failed government. Or maybe just deal with those who are holding the government, so blatantly, hostage.

Yes that's worked out great for Egypt.

Here's a better idea: Sane politicians tell the Tea Baggers to shut the fark up and go about their business like adults. Anyone who thinks the U.S. government is in any way analogous to their personal checkbook should be ignored.

I didn't say I was a rational person and it was a good idea. I just figured now was a good time to put my billions to good use and get my own country. Don't worry, I won't be a brutal oppressor, if you don't force me to be.

This is the problem with putting the nation into the hands of idiots. These folks haven't the capacity to understand what they are playing with, and that's the problem: they are playing with toys, and it's about that real to them. It's a game. A toy. It's playing tough, because they don't understand the consequences.

AliceBToklasLives:Slaxl: If I was a billionaire with everything to lose I'd bribe the/an army to replace the failed government. Or maybe just deal with those who are holding the government, so blatantly, hostage.

Yes that's worked out great for Egypt.

Here's a better idea: Sane politicians tell the Tea Baggers to shut the fark up and go about their business like adults. Anyone who thinks the U.S. government is in any way analogous to their personal checkbook should be ignored.

Yes, but Jesus. Except the poors. And the messicans. Once they are done with my yard. Damn I need a taco.

OdradekRex:How many of the tea party congressmen could actually undertand the implications of this article?

The man that "masterminded" this disaster is a first-term Senator whose only other significant political experience outside a campaign was as a Solicitor General for five years. He has no business experience at all.

What do you think?

/ this entire country is currently being held hostage by a Canadian and a bunch of inbred nitwits in a state we stole from Mexico...

hubiestubert:This is the problem with putting the nation into the hands of idiots. These folks haven't the capacity to understand what they are playing with, and that's the problem: they are playing with toys, and it's about that real to them. It's a game. A toy. It's playing tough, because they don't understand the consequences.

Tea Party reps and their followers are firmly convinced defaulting won't be a big deal at all. They have convinced themselves and NOTHING will sway them.

If we don't default, they will just say it wouldn't have been a bad thing if we had. Recent history shows this to be true.

The last time we did this idiotic dance the cost hit as much as 75 basis points. And that was AFTER the ceiling was raised with the automatic cuts provisions.

The teabaggers believe there's been minimal disruption solely because they're far enough down the food chain that these temporary fights don't hit them directly and they don't pay attention to anything else (companies can lose billions of value in a day over this sort of shiat).

The cost of their irrational behavior is smoothed considerably by the time it gets to their modest 401ks and savings accounts. That will not be true if we actually default.

Walker:Sorry but as the link earlier today mentioned Ted Yoho said "I think, personally, a U.S. default on its national debt would bring stability to the world markets", and over all these experts I would trust Ted Yoho....if I'm insane.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm saving a bunch of money to invest in the stock market next spring after everything craters. As long is the money is worth a touch more than Zimbabwe bucks, I figure riding the stock upswing will be very profitable.

Failing to raise the debt ceiling will not result in a default on any U.S. backed securities. Current revenues are greater than those needed to finance the debt. That means that even if we hit the debt ceiling, and even if Congress fails to raise it, the U.S. will not default. So you can all stop claiming otherwise any time now.

bulldg4life:I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm saving a bunch of money to invest in the stock market next spring after everything craters. As long is the money is worth a touch more than Zimbabwe bucks, I figure riding the stock upswing will be very profitable.

That's assuming you have your cash under your matress. If the banks tank, FDIC insurance will be worth nothing. Remember the Banks in Cyprus and the bail-in by depositors? You may wind up owning stock - in struggling banks.

OdradekRex:bulldg4life: I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm saving a bunch of money to invest in the stock market next spring after everything craters. As long is the money is worth a touch more than Zimbabwe bucks, I figure riding the stock upswing will be very profitable.

That's assuming you have your cash under your matress. If the banks tank, FDIC insurance will be worth nothing. Remember the Banks in Cyprus and the bail-in by depositors? You may wind up owning stock - in struggling banks.

I have all these pieces of paper that say I own gold. Should I have the actual gold??!?!?!

quizzical:Well that laid out the situation in stark and uncompromising terms. Whether the Tea Partiers will choose to trust economists over their guts is still the question.

Actually, it's a horrible article, because it assumes that something that will not happen, will in fact happen, and then talks entirely about the horrible consequences of that event, while completely ignoring the fact that it won't actually happen. This article is like writing an entire story about how devastating it will be when the incoming meteor hits the earth, when every knows that it will actually miss by the earth entirely.

mediablitz:Tea Party reps and their followers are firmly convinced defaulting won't be a big deal at all. They have convinced themselves and NOTHING will sway them.

I believe that what they have convinced themselves of is that failing to raise the debt limit will not be a big deal. This may or may not be true. What is true is that an actual U.S. default would be devastating. What is false is that failing to raise the debt ceiling will cause a default.

I will say it again for those who aren't following: Regardless of whether or not the debt ceiling is lifted, there will be no U.S. default on government backed securities.

Talondel:Failing to raise the debt ceiling will not result in a default on any U.S. backed securities. Current revenues are greater than those needed to finance the debt. That means that even if we hit the debt ceiling, and even if Congress fails to raise it, the U.S. will not default. So you can all stop claiming otherwise any time now.

There you have it! Everything is hunky dory. This has no negative ramifications.

Walker:Sorry but as the link earlier today mentioned Ted Yoho said "I think, personally, a U.S. default on its national debt would bring stability to the world markets", and over all these experts I would trust Ted Yoho....if I'm insane.

So once again, what he things (right or wrong) is that failing to raise the debt ceiling could be a good thing. That's probably not true. But it's not the same thing as saying that a 'default' would be a good thing, which would certainly be false, but which isn't what he said. You appear to be either confused about the difference or deliberately misquoting. If you have a different quote from a better source, please feel free to share.

mediablitz:There you have it! Everything is hunky dory. This has no negative ramifications.

Thanks, internet expert!

If you go back and read my post, you should be able to discern that I am not making the argument that you have ascribed to me. It will certainly have ramifications. Those ramifications do not include a default on U.S. securities, which is what the linked article and the vast majority of those posting in this thread assume.

mediablitz:You say this as if it is the only issue that matters in the debt limit debacle.

No, I say that as if it were the only issue being discussed in this thread and the horribly inaccurate linked article.

Talondel:quizzical: Well that laid out the situation in stark and uncompromising terms. Whether the Tea Partiers will choose to trust economists over their guts is still the question.

Actually, it's a horrible article, because it assumes that something that will not happen, will in fact happen, and then talks entirely about the horrible consequences of that event, while completely ignoring the fact that it won't actually happen. This article is like writing an entire story about how devastating it will be when the incoming meteor hits the earth, when every knows that it will actually miss by the earth entirely.

mediablitz: Tea Party reps and their followers are firmly convinced defaulting won't be a big deal at all. They have convinced themselves and NOTHING will sway them.

I believe that what they have convinced themselves of is that failing to raise the debt limit will not be a big deal. This may or may not be true. What is true is that an actual U.S. default would be devastating. What is false is that failing to raise the debt ceiling will cause a default.

I will say it again for those who aren't following: Regardless of whether or not the debt ceiling is lifted, there will be no U.S. default on government backed securities.

Please explain, specifically, how the United States government will avoid default when it possesses insufficient funds to meet all financial obligations.

Dimensio:Please explain, specifically, how the United States government will avoid default when it possesses insufficient funds to meet all financial obligations.

What the linked article is talking about is the ramifications of a default on U.S. back securities (bonds, bills, notes, etc.). Current revenues are more than sufficient to pay those obligations. This will lead the U.S. to fail to meet other obligations, such as S.S. payments, medicare and medicaid payments, and probably even money owed under various contracts. These failures will have negative consequences. But they will not be the consequences discussed in the linked article, which assumes there will be a default on U.S. Treasuries, which is a false assumption.

qorkfiend:Talondel: I will say it again for those who aren't following: Regardless of whether or not the debt ceiling is lifted, there will be no U.S. default on government backed securities.

You do realize there are billions of dollars in other federal obligations that don't include servicing government-backed securities, right?

I do. But failing to meet those obligations is not what the linked article is talking about. It's talking about the consequences of a U.S. default on it's Treasuries. Anyone who actually read the article should be able to discern this from the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.

OdradekRex:qorkfiend: Talondel: I will say it again for those who aren't following: Regardless of whether or not the debt ceiling is lifted, there will be no U.S. default on government backed securities.

You do realize there are billions of dollars in other federal obligations that don't include servicing government-backed securities, right?

Correct. It's also about confidence in the dollar. You lose that, and the economy loses the premium the world is willing to pay for US dollar assets as a safe investment.

I'm not sure I agree that it would necessarily effect the value of the dollar. That has more to do with the perception of the Federal Reserve than of the government as a whole. But even if I accept that premise is true, the effect on the economy is a tiny fraction of what the linked article is claiming will happen.

If it ever comes down to the IRS directly funding the interest on the debt to prevent bond default, it's time to get out my tricorne hat and go to tea party meetings to go full ragederp on them for continuing to fund the IRS. Because at that point allowing this political arrangement to continue is as unnecessarily cruel as refusing to put down a draft horse with 4 broken legs because we really had such fond memories of it as a pony.