This morning we announced that Paragon Studios will be taking to the skies of City of Heroes for the last time.

In a realignment of company focus and publishing support, NCsoft has made the decision to close Paragon Studios. Effective immediately, all development on City of Heroes will cease and we will begin preparations to sunset the world's first, and best, Super Hero MMORPG before the end of the year. As part of this, all recurring subscription billing and Paragon Market purchasing will be discontinued effective immediately. We will have more information regarding a detailed timeline for the cessation of services and what you can expect in game in the coming weeks.

More at the link above.

Talk about sad. I played CoX for years, and while I haven't played it in a long while, I know I will miss it greatly.

NCsoft may have more banking on Guild Wars 2 than once thought. The mega-publisher announced that its second quarter earnings were lower than expected; it posted a $6 million loss for the period.

Revenues were down 12% from last year to $130 million, of which a vast majority came from NCsoft's online titles. The company stated that it dipped into the red due to rising labor costs, an increased marketing budget for Blade & Soul's Korean launch, and the acquisition of Ntreev. Aion was also blamed for the company's financial woes, as revenues in that title sharply decreased due to fewer microtransaction sales.

So CoX got hit in the crossfire from lower than expected profits.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 08:02:33 PM by Destructor »

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This really sucks. I played this game for 5+ years. In fact, I just returned to it last weekend after about a year away. It is still my favorite MMO. It is very group friendly and doesn't have all of the gear/loot grind that I hate in other games. I was on last night and everyone was talking about the cancellation and how they let us know. I am sad for the players, but even more so for the employees that lost their jobs.

Very sucky news. This was a fine MMO and Paragon made a great effort in keeping it current with regular updates. I fondly remember my time with CoH as Antman and kept meaning to go back. Maybe I might before they close down Paragon City for good.

Reports were that worldwide, CoX was only 2% of NCSoft's sales/profits/something. And only 4% of NCSoft's USA division.

Basically: They lost a lot of money last quarter, so something needed to be done to appease the shareholders. It wasn't making enough money fast enough so they canned everything effective immediately (with the employees anyway).

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"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

Reports were that worldwide, CoX was only 2% of NCSoft's sales/profits/something. And only 4% of NCSoft's USA division.

Basically: They lost a lot of money last quarter, so something needed to be done to appease the shareholders. It wasn't making enough money fast enough so they canned everything effective immediately (with the employees anyway).

By "they lost a lot of money" you mean NCSoft, not Paragon, right? I've never seen any indication that CoX was losing money.

This is one of those things I've never understood about business. Yeah, I get that there's an opportunity cost of money, but if you are losing money, does it make sense to cut off a smaller, healthy part of the business that was stable? I don't know, maybe it looks good on paper, but I would think there would be significant costs to shutting down a studio and a corresponding loss of income. They could have looked for a buyer instead, maybe.

People think F2P solves everything but for aging games it doesn't bring in a big enough influx of new players, and thus enough micro transaction flow to, probably even cover server infrastructure costs. I remain puzzled why NCSoft didn't OK a sequel but probably they didnt feel it would make back production cost.

I loved the mission creation tools initially but IMHO, they never found a way to separate all the fun misshes from the crap, and from xp exploitation missions, nor did they ever find a way to leverage all that player generated content, nor find a way to monetize it to ensure the game's survival.

I loved the game dearly for most of April 2004-2007. While WoW in late 2004 (COH released in April 2004' about 6-7 mos before WoW) stole most of my Supergroup away, LOTRO is what gradually pulled me away in 2007. I revisited a couple times or so but the magic was gone for me. I still felt COH had the most fun combat animations of any mmo I played. For years the combat alone was so much fun, I never tired of it.

WoW notwithstanding, I don't think you can ask an 8 year old game to survive in this market or economy. ESP. One with no paid expansions to try to draw in new or old players.

As for fond memories, I loved many of the story arcs (connected missions) and the epic Task Forces. I most remember the one in the giant robot factory. I loved when you all had to run out before the factory blew :-)

I still feel like COH had the overall friendliest community in game I encountered in an mmo. At least the first year or so, I so often made buds just rescuing another player or helping out. People that would say hi and want to play again the next day. For a time the supergroup i was in grew that way too. LOTRO had some of that quality, but i've found little of that quality in mmos anymore and it's one reason I've quit the genre.

Anyway though, those fuzzy COH memories will remain long after the servers are unplugged :-)

Nowadays a lot of MMOs get compared to World of Warcraft, because most of them are trying to emulate WoW. I would get new designers in and they would wonder why we had some systems that were NOTHING like what WoW did, and I have to explain to them that we were released seven months before them.

It is a testament to the game that we were able to survive the Warcraft juggernaut, we had them beat in a lot of different areas. That's not to say WoW is a bad game. I've told people "You don't get 12 million players and still be a bad game" there were lessons I learned from WoW, just as there were lessons I am sure they learned from CoH.

But you want to know the most amazing part about my time on City of Heroes? It's pretty easy... look in a mirror. Seriously, it's you guys. CoH has THE BEST community in the gaming space, HANDS DOWN. We have players that praise everything we do . We have players that put us to task for our game balance. We have players that reverse engineer our math. We have players that criticize our storytelling. We have players that are passionate about the lore.

We have players that make machinima movies and write stories where a character I created has a romantic relationship with a character they created. We have EVERY POSSIBLE TYPE OF PLAYER, and in the end I know they all LOVE City of Heroes because they ALL STICK AROUND, even the ones that apparently we could do no right in the eyes of!

And I want everyone to know, in my entire time posting on the forums, I have never, ever, put ANY player on Ignore (even though I have been sorely tempted). When I read a thread, I would read EVERY POST in it, everyone was entitled to their opinion, and I would be doing them a disservice if I didn't at least read their complaint (even if I didn't agree with it).

So the big question is, "what am I doing next?" Honestly, I don't know. I've got some ideas, and rest assured that once I have something to talk about, you'll hear it on the twitters (@MMODesigner) Yeah. I changed my twitter handle, but if you were following @Positron_CoH, everything switches over for you automagically.

I am going to miss the hell out of this game, but most of all I am going to miss the hell out of you guys. We had fantastic plans for the future, stuff we were working on right up until Friday. Stuff that would have made the passing of Neil Armstrong seem eerily coincidental. I would have loved to read your comments about the stuff we had planned.

So this isn't goodbye. I will end up somewhere and I hope that I can "run an RPG" for you all again someday.

Anyway, the whole thread has a lot of nostalgia for anyone interested in it. I suspect Positron won't "reveal" what they had planned for future updates, as it might be something he'll pursue for another game elsewhere.

fwiw, the community reps (3 remaining) are still working, and devs are still posting. I gather from a couple posts they won't be able to do any further updating to the game at this point so if they run into client software bugs etc., they can't do any work on that now.

CoH was my first real love after Dark Ages of Camelot (which was my first love only because it was my first MMORPG) and I put in many years with it. I still have a large group of friends that maintain a superhero group in the game with regular Saturday night get togethers. I left only after my gaming ADD finally kicked in (although it lasted far longer than any other MMO for me in that regard).

I shall toast my time in the game tonight...while I'm playing Guild Wars 2.

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Just remember: once a user figures out gluten noting them they're allowed to make fun of you. - Ceekay speaking in tongues.

Hey my COH buddy (we played other games too, but played COH/COV the most) came out of nowhere after a 5 year disappearance to at least say hello on another board. So, something good came out of COH's cancellation, you might say...

I've read there's a large number of "COH refugees" streaming steadily into Champions these days, presumably over to DC Universe as well.

I think a lot of people could have. Which is what made the closure so baffling. No one, including NCSoft itself, indicated that CoH/V was not making enough money to pay its way. Hell one of the employees from Paragon was planning on presenting a proposal to buy it from them next year. The last and really only communication NCSoft made was a basic f'you we're taking our ball home. I believe at least three attempts had been made to purchase the IP from them and two were not even heard. Which makes one of their statements, "We've exhausted all options including the selling of the studio and the rights to the City of Heroes intellectual property, but in the end, efforts to do so were not successful." quite disingenuous. The price floating around that they wanted was 80 million which is frankly absurd. I think they just wanted to get out of the western market, Guild Wars not withstanding. They sunk a lot of money into GW2 and their upcoming Blade & Soul and needed to trim quickly. They may also want to shore up more resources for Aeon and Lineage II which I don't believe are performing as hoped. I could also be vindictive and point out that their stock has dropped a fair amount (From their high of 286500 on Sept 7 to 161500 Nov 30).

In the end NCSoft is well establishing itself as a place for MMO developers to stay far away from. They have proven time and again that they will not work with the community and developers to keep a franchise going even if it means staff cuts or putting it into maintenance mode like Sony has done in the past. There's probably a lot more that can be brought up, and maybe someone that was more immersed in the community can chime in.

What was incredible was the response both in game and out that happened after the initial announcement. Virtue at one point I believe had 40 instances of Atlas Park. With numerous marches and and constant sit ins. Last night with the exception of the European servers every one was yellow with Virtue being red. I personally had to wait twice in a queue of 1500 ( I want to say 2500 but rather err on the lower amount) and 900 respectively. Near the end people decided to go to another server since Virtue was having problems and that server (Triumph I believe) went red.Capes were sent to NCSoft ala what the fans of Veronica Mars did with mars bars. Numerous letters sent and efforts to engage any media outlet were made.Stories were shared, not just about adventures in the game but because of it. We heard of people being able to find solace from their abuse and sickness. Of parents and their kids being able to connect with something. Just last night while listening to The Cape the DJ talked about a story she received of a daughter who improved her reading skills immensely (I want to say from a 4 year old to an because of the game.

I have never seen this kind of response from the players when previous games have shut down. The players that have and continue to play those games, while imploring the publisher to keep it going, usually in the end accept that it wasn't performing well enough as servers were consolidated and staff was shed. We had none of that for Heroes.

I'm already going much too long but will say that right now the community is making an effort to get Disney to purchase City. I would recommend visiting here and then here for more information.

It was probably making enough money to pay its way, but wasn't making any profit at this point.

That's what I heard as well. And it was just like what Atari did with Cryptic Studios (Champions Online and Star Trek Online) - they wanted to get more money now, which is why they sold off the company to Perfect World Entertainment.

Seems that NCSoft just wanted to abandon the game (like they did with Tabula Rasa and the, uh, post-apocalyptic car MMO) instead of trying to get rid of it. Or something.

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I know the remaining players want to make NCSoft out to be Darth Vader but they kept the game going for 8 years for crying out loud, probably at a loss in recent years. Sooo many mmorpgs have come and died since then, including many NCSoft titles. I still miss Tabula Rasa. If it had more time in the oven before launch, I think Auto Assault might've had a chance.

And what publisher in their right mind is going to spend (probably) millions on taking over an 8-year old mmorpg with a decaying (albeit enthusiastic/passionate) subscriber base? It wouldn't make sense in this global economic environment. If Cryptic/Perfect World wasn't still running Champions, I could've maybe seen Jack Emmert and Co. wanting to "save" their original baby, but it wouldn't make any sense now.

If WoW never existed (City of Heroes released in April 2004, WoW in November 2004), it would've been interesting to see how the mmorpg market panned out. It might've been more interesting for the category to have several strongly successful games rather than one 10 million ton gorilla and everyone else futilely chasing its tail and constantly being labeled a WoW-clone (at least, predating it, City of Heroes never had to deal with that label).

Then again, maybe without that gorilla to chase, the whole genre would've died out years ago.

The only time I ever heard that CoH/V was not making money were from commentors on the various stories about the announced shutdown. The problem with that was that they just didn't care about the game or genre so it was easier to dismiss it out of hand.Just to be clear the players, who were constant, were not operating under some delusion that the game was making huge amounts of money but that it was making a net profit.

As far as NCSoft is concerned yes they are a company, yes their goal is to make money but they have also consistently shown that rather than trying to work things out with a game it easier for them to just kill it. Why would a developer let alone a player want to support that? If a game is only as good as it's community why would they want to flock to something knowing that the sword of damocles is there not ready to drop when it's time has come but whenever it feels like it.

I do and don't agree that these types of games are not special. I agree that from a distance they all have the same basic mechanics of the carrot on a longer stick than that of their single player contemporaries. Where I don't agree is that what only makes them special is the community. Personally I play these games for the most part solo so what interests me is the story and the world. I can tell you I felt a sense of wonder first entering the snow covered Frostbluff or seeing Golden Giza at night. Heck when I came back to Eve after a long hiatus just the nav voice was enough to send waves of nostalgia up my spine. Even something as simple as the landing animation after flying in DCUO or the fact that I would always try to jump off something before changing form as druid in WoW would bring pleasure to me. The community never had anything to do with that. They were all simple and complex things that set each one apart. That's not to say a community doesn't have a place in the world as some players will stay or leave because of it. It's just for me a great community is icing on that already delicious confection and CoH/V managed to deliver that icing.

As an aside it does bother me when a company decides to shutter an IP and would rather let it rot than see someone else make something of it. I still remember when Nickelodeon let the copyright run out for Doug not seeing any use in keeping it and Disney not only picked it up but made it popular again. Nickelodeon vowed to never let that happen again. Not that we won't be so quick to kill something that has more life in it but rather keep your filthy hands off our stuff.

I do hope that in the future publishers figure out a better way to handle the closure of MMOs. Even if it's just retooling and reselling them as a single player or player run server product. I can tell you I would gladly pay 50-60 dollars again just to be able to go back into those worlds that have ceased to be supported. It's also one of my fears about all digital (With no backup capability) and cloud based gaming. There's no possibility for curation. We could go back and look at archived media but without being able to actually touch those worlds and the mechanics contained within you cannot really grasp what makes them so special or even what to improve or avoid in the future.

For the City of Villains/Heroes players there have been choices to be made beyond how can we try to resurrect our recently closed world or create one ourselves. In the immediate some have moved to other worlds, some will continue with Guild Wars 2, some will avoid all things NCSoft and some have abandoned the genre altogether. No choices are wrong as each are their own to make. Personally I will avoid NCSoft as I continue to do with Activision and any game that utilizes an always on component when it doesn't need one. Am I being a bit naive in hoping that my actions will somehow effect those companies to change in the way that I desire? Probably. But until I have the money to control a majority share in those companies, my wallet is the only voice I have.

I will retain my memories of my glory days there. I still have many screenshots. And of course my scrapper Blackjack lives on in name.

While I'm tempted to limit that to the glorious 6 months or so between COH's launch and WoW's launch in 2004 (many pals fled to WoW, never or not often to return), I really had a blast and was addicted through about the time of LOTRO's release in 2007. I tried re-visiting for a while in 2008, and did have some fun with the Mission Creator but eventually I trailed off into too many other mmorpgs, including some deceased ones (Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, etc.).

I just have no itch for mmorpgs at all anymore. My best memories will probably still be from City of Heroes and LOTRO, and perhaps the first few weeks of SWTOR. I don't even necessarily mean that in terms of the gameplay, I mean that in terms of the people I met and had fun playing with, including GT folks in SWTOR.

I had a good time playing CoX too. It was my 3rd major mmorpg experience after DAOC. I tried to come back with the villians expansion, which was fun, but I ended up getting sucked into WoW at the time.

CoH has the distinction of being the only mmorpg where I've fallen asleep in large team missions...on more than one occassion. I've played sleepy in other mmorpgs, but something about the repetitive design of some of the missions in CoH would just zonk me out.

To outsiders, the Aug. 31 closure seemingly came out of nowhere, affecting 80 employees -- many of whom were just as surprised as the rest of the gaming world. But had history zigged instead of zagged, Paragon could still be around today. In fact, say Paragon veterans, up until the last minute, it looked like the company was facing a much different fate.

Paragon management -- including general manager/co-founder Brian Clayton, director of product development Destin Bales, and director of business and marketing Ross Borden -- actively negotiated with NCsoft to buy back the studio, which would have resulted in both the employees retaining their jobs and keeping City of Heroes alive for its core, but dedicated, fan base.

The deal looked like it would go through -- but at the last minute, roadblocks arose that scuttled the negotiations, sealing the studio's fate.

"It was very much a surprise," says Matt Miller, former lead designer at Paragon, who had been brought in on the buyout plan. "We all were really working as if things were going to work out. ... It was business as usual right up until the last day."

And a final update that NCSoft wouldn't allow in... (too buggy, but when did that stop a publisher before? )

Quote

The anniversary plans Paragon had for City of Heroes were elaborate, Miller says. A new enemy was about to make its debut, which would culminate in the opening of a moon base for players. Preliminary work was underway, including concept art and level layout.

"We really wanted to give the players a brand new environment -- something they've kind of been asking for, something to take the game to that galactic stage," says Miller. "We've had superheroes in the game. You start off [and] you're just fighting street crime. Then you move up and you're fighting citywide threats and then global threats and then these sort of extra-dimensional threats all threatening the world. And we really wanted to take the stage and make it more of a galactic stage.

"So we had an alien invasion race called The Battalion that was going to be arriving in the very next issue. That would play out over several issues culminating with the moon base, where you would use the resources of the moon base to actually fight back and basically kick Battalion out of our solar system."

Interesting kind of coda article here, talking to some COH players who decided to form community groups to see if they can get some sort of spiritual successor game done. I think a non MMO might be more realistic -- the MMO upkeep, server costs etc. don't seem to make a community-done game sound too realistic, imho.

But though City of Heroes died that day, the game's legacy lived on. From its death sprang Missing Worlds Media, Inc. — a community-based, volunteer-driven studio with a clear goal. A plan, in the words of Missing Worlds, to start again:

"We're committed to rebuilding and creating worlds that are missing. Worlds that died far too quickly with hundreds of thousands of fans waiting for, and committed to, a rebirth."....There is a very personal, yet universal, loss for the players of City of Heroes. When asked about what they'll miss most, there are two answers that seem to appear every time.

One: flying.

Two: the game's community.

"This is a community that still wants a home," Johnson says. "It's a community that wants to hold together, so I feel that they deserve the chance to do so."...Players with the power to teleport would wait outside areas difficult for low-level players. When those players crossed their path, they would teleport them to safety, rather than watch as they died over and over again. Lyndell-Lees tried something similar; she would heal and teleport strangers to their next mission. It made her feel good as a person, she says, to help.

That last bit really stands out for me.

That's maybe the only mmorpg I played where I made a few lasting game buds either by helping them out or being helped out. Admittedly from a short time-span (maybe around 2004-2005).

By comparison I once got cussed out for about a minute by a guy in LOTRO when I slightly healed him because it looked like he was gonna croak. He informed me it would've debuffed his exp for like a minute, and how it "pissed him off" when strangers tried to help him. I wasn't aware of it, and after that didn't ever try to help someone in that game if he wasn't in my group.

I've come to accept that today's MMOs really aren't interested in building friendship or community. Generally they're about loot and exp and pvp and auto-teaming with strangers who immediately bolt once an instance or group quest is over. I do the same thing now. I find it very sad.

Although a few characters can sort of fly in Marvel Heroes, it's a very "limited altitude" game and doesn't at all give you something like City of Heroes' flying experience. Champions is a better bet for that feeling.