A former governor's legacy, forged in bronze

"You deserve the statue, and I and a lot of others are going to look at it with admiration for long time to come."

Former Gov. Brendan Byrne touches the statue in his likeness after it was unveiled at a ceremony outside the entrance to the Veterans Courthouse in Newark.Robert Sciarrino/The Star-Ledger

The following exchange between former New Jersey governors Brendan T. Byrne and Tom Kean took place in a teleconference on Wednesday.

Q: Gov. Byrne, after the dedication of your statue last week, are you waking up these days feeling 7 feet tall?

GOV. BYRNE: It was a great honor and great privilege to see it at the (Veterans) Courthouse, where I spent a lot of my life and had lot of my battles. I think I’m going to visit it often.

GOV. KEAN: Brendan Byrne has always been at least 7 feet tall. You deserve the statue, and I and a lot of others are going to look at it with admiration for long time to come.

BYRNE: I appreciate your coming and speaking at the dedication, Tom. It was very generous of you.

KEAN: It’s very easy to say good things about Brendan Byrne.

Q: Now that a Superior Court judge has ruled New Jersey must allow gay marriage, does it seem to you that the debate has shifted from the issue itself to who should be deciding it?

BYRNE: I think they’ll get everybody they can to weigh in on it, and whoever is willing to decide it will decide it. It is a mixed issue, subject to legislation and judicial determination, so it’s going to be a case of who gets there first.

KEAN: It’s always better if the people decide, because court decisions sometimes make people angry. We’re still arguing over the abortion decision years later. But if it’s not going to be a referendum and if the Legislature hasn’t got the majority to do it, I guess we’re stuck with the courts.

Q: In your opinion, will there eventually be consensus legalization — either by a referendum or legislative action — of gay marriage in our state?

BYRNE: It is almost inevitable that we’ll have some saying gay marriage is a constitutional issue, and that there is a right to gay marriage.

KEAN: I think there’s a consensus now. I think if it had been a referendum, it would have passed. I’m sorry it wasn’t, because that would have been a better way of doing it. But people are for it in increasing numbers.

BYRNE: The late Chief Justice (Joseph) Weintraub used to say people can find a constitutional issue in everything. Things that were a crime when I was a young lawyer are now a civil right.

KEAN: The world evolves, fortunately.

Q: Rep. Frank Pallone (D-N.J.) is co-sponsoring an immigration reform bill that largely incorporates provisions in a bill the Senate already passed. But is immigration reform getting lost in the budget and debt ceiling impasse?

BYRNE: It’s a torturous road, and it has a couple more bends before it’s over. But I do think it’s the road that leads to a result.

KEAN: We’ve got to have legislative solutions to this problem. It makes no sense to have millions of illegal people working in this country. Congress, which started moving on this fairly responsibly in the Senate, should continue its progress.

Q: And speaking of the impasse, how serious could the consequences be if we don’t raise the debt ceiling?

BYRNE: We’ll see.

KEAN: Nobody knows, and that’s what’s scary. Maybe not very great at all. Maybe we can find way to muddle through. Others feel the most powerful country in the world could be thrown into recession. Let’s not find out. Let’s solve it.

Q: Between litigation and stalled construction, does it look like we’ll be stuck with the shell of the old Xanadu at the Meadowlands when the Super Bowl comes to town?

BYRNE: About six months ago, somebody told me it would all be completed before the Super Bowl, including Xanadu. I’ve stopped believing that now. I’m not sure Xanadu was even a good idea to begin with.

KEAN: It was a flawed project from Day One. The idea of a Mall of America in the Meadowlands never struck me as a wonderful thing. It was just one more shopping center in New Jersey. Frankly, I wish there were some other use for the land.