Narcissists Don't Make Love

What do narcissists think of when they think of sex?

Take a few moments to think about what sex means to you (sexual intercourse that is).

…and…STOP.

Now go ahead and rate each of the 14 words below in terms of how important they are to your concept of sex, that is, what sex means to you. A rating of 1 means it's not important at all and a 9 means it's extremely important. Of course, you can also use any number between 1 and 9. Don't worry if some of the words seem a little strange. Just go with your gut instinct.

Now add up your scores. You should get two scores. One will be for the odd numbered words and one will be for the even numbered words. Let's call your score for the odd numbered words Communal Sexuality and your score for the even words Agentic Sexuality.

People who score high relative to other people in communal sexuality tend to view sex as an act that is mutually rewarding (i.e., both partners receive something positive from it) and relationship-enhancing. People who score high in agentic sexuality tend to view sex as personally rewarding and self-enhancing. To some degree, sex is more about "we" to people high in communal sexuality and more about "me" to people high in agentic sexuality.

A few years ago we (i.e., Joshua Foster, Ilan Shrira, & Keith Campbell, 2006) gave this test to 272 University of Georgia students. So you can get some idea about where you fall, students in this study scored an average of 57 for communal sexuality and 23 for agentic sexuality. Women scored a little higher than men in terms of communal sexuality (59 vs. 53) and men scored a little higher than women on agentic sexuality (27 vs. 21).

What we were most interested in, however, was how these conceptualizations of sex related to the personality construct of narcissism. Consistent with what we predicted, and probably what you’d expect as well, narcissists (i.e., people who scored high on a measure of narcissism) tended to score higher on agentic sexuality and lower on communal sexuality compared to less narcissistic folks. What this suggests is that, much like everything else in their lives, narcissists view sex as being “all about me.”

To some degree, we suspect that narcissists view their sexual partners as objects that satisfy their needs for pleasure, status, and power. As you might imagine, this kind of attitude probably doesn’t bode well for long-term relationships. In fact, one thing we suspect, but have not tested, is that more frequent sexual activity might actually harm relationships involving narcissists.

Here's why. Sex generally acts to bring partners closer together (both physically and psychologically). In other words, sex can be thought of as a mechanism for enhancing relationships, For narcissists, however, who view sex more in terms of personal gratification, sex might actually cause increased separation. Think of it like this. It’s hard to imagine that a marital therapist would suggest that a couple engage in more frequent isolated activities in the hopes that they will grow closer to one another. Certainly, this would instead lead to further separation. Likewise, if sex is essentially an isolated activity (albeit in the presence of another person), then one can imagine how more frequent sexual activity might actually cause relationship partners to feel more separated from each other.

Granted, we are taking the perspective of the narcissist in terms of our speculation. It’s certainly possible that the (less narcissistic) partners of narcissists grow more and more attached with each sexual act. This would be particularly cruel because while sex works to make one partner more attached, it pushes the other partner away. It’s possible that to some degree this might even account for findings from our labs showing that ex-romantic partners of narcissists report being particularly unsettled by their relationships. Again, we haven’t tested this idea directly, but it certainly seems like a logical possibility.

If one accepts the idea that sexual activity might undermine relationships involving narcissists, then we might ask: Can anything be done to change this? The short answer is nobody really knows. One might try to withhold sex from narcissistic romantic partners, but other research we’ve done leads us to believe that narcissists would simply look elsewhere to get their sexual needs met. See, narcissists tend to take a "what have you done for me lately" approach to their relationships and are quicker than most to abandon relationships that don’t satisfy their needs (Foster, 2008). Another option would be to somehow make narcissists adopt a more communal view of sexuality. Neither of us are exactly sure how to go about doing this, or whether it’s even possible, but if one could encourage narcissistic romantic partners to view sexual behavior in terms of the “we" then perhaps their long-term term relationships would function a little better.

It's mystifying to us that well-intentioned scientists so often insist upon reducing multi-faceted aspects of life to something uni-dimensional so that they can study it more easily. Was it Wordsworth who wrote that "we murder to dissect?"

Sexual intercourse can be many different things, at different times, with different people.

Think of the word dance (dancing with someone). Now rate a bunch of adjectives... Are we talking about rock and roll, ballroom, hip hop? Is it all the same?

Or "conversation." Or "travel." You see? "Sex" is simply not a thing that can be quantified like this.

First, the point of our study was never to reduce sexuality to one or two numbers. We are in agreement this is an absurd goal.

Nevertheless, as a quantitative researcher, I do see value in attempting to quantify psychological experience so that I can more objectively make comparisons and predictions. I think quantification is the foundation of psychological science. And although it may be difficult to quantify sexuality--and I respect your opinion that I did so incorrectly in my study--I do not agree that psychologist should simply write this off as impossible. Most of these attempts will be looked upon as laughable by future (and current) psychologists, but some will prove to be the building blocks of greater understanding.

The blog questions concerning the 'science' of psychology doesn't interest me. I am a graduate in psychology, been there, done that. However, I totally concur with Joshua Foster, that communal and agentic sexual patterns exist in N. relationships. They did for me. My partner was a women who I consider to be somewhere toward the narcissistic end of that continuum (psychopathology as the other end), which included N. rage.

I have only recently discovered her that she was narcissistic. Sex was joyous and intimate for me at first, however the frequency was a problem for my partner. The closer I felt the more threatened she became. She became cold, cruel, emotionally withdrawn. I became increasingly distressed. Appeasing on my part failed. Dialogue became one-way with her failing to participate. There was no empathy shown toward me, and as our relationship grew longer I learned to adapt.

My partner was bi-sexual and I believe monogamous throughout the 14 years we spent together.
I noticed a lack of empathy towards her children, and recognised that they where all an extension of herself. They endured long hours at times engaging in her perfectionism (homework help took about 7 hours, until 1am for our 13 year old on one occasion, through which the poor child had to participate, her mother being completely unaware how exhausted the child had become). My attempts to intervene where totally dismissed.

I sought solutions to our sex problems and she bemoaned the fact that her ex-husband was also demanding. She never saw herslf as having the problem or being equally responsible for the difficulties we where having. Toward the end of our relationship (4yrs before) she became more verbally abusive and her weakly anger fix, which i realise was N-rage was near homicidal at times, because i was asking for change and a mutual relationship. She never accepted her flaws and this caused her much antagonism. We slept in seperate rooms for the last two years. I ran out of ways to help and left what had become a very toxic relationship.

All attempts that i made to withdraw from her brought her nearer to me. The same with sex, if i showed no interest she came for me.

Interestingly, when we seperated we ressumed a passionate relationship that lasted merely a season, until she could stay no longer. She is still in my life. However, I have grown tired of the lack of intimacy and need more for me. I maintain her N, hence the long-term relationship. To some extent i still do. However, I am armed with more knowledge and insight and welcome the author her to open the forum for dialogue. It can help partners.

To Jane Doe, I would say it took me two years before I finally left. I went recovering from a major heart problem. I kept me friends close and determined that the responsibility was mine to stop the abuse. I wish you good luck.

To the question: Can anything be done? My experience taught me that sex and the N. is a closed subject something they will never recognise as a problem because to them it isnt. Their lack of empathy closes them off to the suffering of their partners therefore, they would not enter into discussions either with those deemed to be close or to professionals.

I can't be sure about you, but in my experience, what made it magical was that it was deeply mutual for quite a while. Then the switch flipped, and I showed up as an entirely different person from then on. There was no more mutual insight, no trust in me (or us), just anger, resentment, stigmatization, and a strict unwillingness to reevaluate.

I was married to a N man for 8 yrs and have been free of him for over 2. Our sex life became miserable after children (and I know this can happen even without an N spouse) But, he would blame me and even accuse me of having physical problems. A great example, and I am not kidding would be "you need to get your wisdom teeth pulled because I think it's affecting your sex drive" Unbelievable!
The last few years were almost unbearable. He would get so angry when I didn't want sex that he even broke the remote control to pieces! Instead of getting closer to me, he was pushing me away without even knowing it.
Even though it's been over 2 years since I left him, I still have to deal with him through the children. I have good days and bad days, but I tell myself every day that I don't have to see him, talk to him (thanks to the protective order), ask his permission, opinion...and most of all..share a bed with him!

“All attempts that i made to withdraw from her brought her nearer to me. The same with sex, if i showed no interest she came for me.”

My God, in all the reading I’ve done over the last few months on the subject of narcissism, you’re the first person who seems to have experienced the behavior of and had the exact same reactions from your N. I was calling it the “push me-pull you” routine, or “the dance”, as in cha-cha. That’s what it felt like. It was that behavior in particular which led me to start looking for reasons, for some explanation, of what the hell was going on. One night, I looked up ‘emotionally unavailable’ and that’s how I inadvertently stumbled upon the wealth of information about the covert narcissist. I had no idea at the time that there were subtypes of narcissists. Having grown up with the typical, obviously narcissistic father, I’d always assumed I’d be able to spot one a mile away. And I can. But ah, the coverts are so very good at what they do. Their masks are usually securely fixed in place, for a while anyway. While it was a relief to finally be able I give her behavior a name, there was no relief in finding out that I was nothing but a substance she could abuse to get a high. Nothing but an object to be utilized when she felt the need. This all became apparently fairly quickly after the love bombing phase, but I didn’t know what was happening. I’m not easy to get along with at times, but unlike my N, I would admit to and apologize for all real, and perceived, faults, and for being just plain difficult at times. Little did I know that my being straightforward and honest like that would make it all the easier for her to play the blame and guilt games.

I’ve been No Contact for almost five weeks now. It’s been so incredibly painful so much of the time, but I can finally start to heal and try to stitch together my shredded pride and dignity.

Despite all arguments to the contrary I’ve read in the comments, this article was very helpful and, in my opinion as someone who’s been there, spot on.

WOW, JH, helluva' tale. you have my best regards, been there,done that.Flashbacks? Oh yah! Thank the Higher Power,I escaped the bonds and found a realistic, grounded lady who shares my/our passion for the great outdoors/honesty,fair play, WE--not Me,our mutual happiness. My/our best wishes the HP sends you a gem like the one I was given. All our best and good luck, Mike@ Kathy

I had of choice been "out of circulation" for a few years when an "N" snuck into my life. I have never been so insensitively pursued for sex in my life. He would not show any affection to me whatsoever since I was not giving him sex and sulked like a two year old most of the time I was with him. I finally gave in just to get the issue off the table thinking the guy was going to die without it...he talked incessantly about "self satisfaction" and that only prisoners should have to seek it! In any event his stamina during sex was amazing but I doubt he was above using Cialis secretly! There was absolutely zero intimacy. He constantly wanted to know how well he performed in comparison to others I had known and was after me all the time to scream during orgasm (just not my style)It was if my body/soul/mind did not exist. He wanted me to worship his "P" and constantly asked me to kiss it. He talked incessantly about how I should be laid well and often but could only manage to see me once a week at His convenience. When I tried to express my feeling about how his treatment of me made me feel (like a whore) he turned the situation around completely to say I didn't understand his work responsibilities and that was a major problem! I found it amusing that when he wrote me a letter later justifying his "approach", he wouldn't even say the word whore....he said w***e and, naturally, that he had nothing to apologize for! Although he did attempt to see me again and accommodate some of my "misgivings" he blew it by in the last sentence of the phone conversation by saying "of course, you know exactly what we are going to do and how dare you accuse me of putting you in a situation where you would feel the way you did!(that is not how I worded it!) I sent him back an e-mail and canceled. As he would argue every feeling I ever expressed as if he were a lawyer defending a criminal, I chose not to give him any reasons for breaking up and found it worked beautifully. He had nothing to argue about and simply came back with "Amen" which I had predicted would be his response. He did send an e-mail suggesting that I not burn bridges unnecessarily and to let him know if I changed my mind! Right!!!Thank God I only subjected myself to this humiliating treatment two or three times(too many!) What I find curious is that I have heard him talk about other people(Politicians he despises) as "narcissists" much like an alcoholic often speaks about other people who drink too much. Is this a way of detaching himself from his own condition?? Despite the fact that I have been able to distance myself from the ravages of his disorder, I still find myself depressed at times asking how I could ever have been so foolish to compromise my values and so lacking in judgment. I imagine with time these will dissipate but thanks to this site and others like it I know I have made the right decision. I could feel him chiseling away at my self esteem and nothing is worth that.

I recently began to consider I may be Narcisscistic after falling head over heels for XXX (or perhaps my own narcissistic reflection) who - other people inform me is quite dangerous - based on my testimony - but I nethertheless find it nigh on impossible to withdraw myself from. I have only begun participating in sexual activity in the last year or so after a decade of self-imposed celebacy because my experience of sex tended to be nightmarish - even in my own fantasies - in spite of little or no actually abuse prior to this. My recent reintroduction resulted from encouragement from "friends" who wanted another sexual participant in their partnership and as a friend I dutifully accomodated often suppressing great fear and little or no interest - but was spurred on by their insistence that I needed more experience to overcome my fears. I learnt allot about the practicalities of sex from them but began to suppress my (mostly negative) emotional responses even further to a point where I honestly felt like I could have had sex in public and not cared. I feel that my sexual life started out quite negatively, principally because I treated my first encounter as a rite of passage to be checked off - with little or no desire - which consequentally developed into quite an abusive relationship experience. Consequently I find I am forever trying to find enough positive "fear free" sexual experiences to make up for the ones which have gone wrong but more often than not they fail to deliver and often make things worse.

There have been few sexual encounters in my life where I haven't felt like I was suppressing some kind of internal "terror" but XXX left me feeling a complete and miraculous "absense of fear" in the presence of intimacy (I suspect because we have a similar caution regarding intimacy and abuse not acknowledged by other sexual partners) in spite of their potentially being one of the most dangerous people I have ever known. They were honestly the greatest lover of my life to begin with but because they didn't fully deliver sexually immediately in spite of my opening myself up completely to them, and because we were not in a specified relationship, I found myself rebounding onto old partners and promiscuous encounters at the encouragement of said "friends" only to later feel that I had abused XXX terribly and achieved little or no satisfaction for myself. XXX was deeply hurt by my unfaithfulness and has been steadily withdrawing from me and our 'friendship' for some time and has withdrawn sex from me completely and even talks about having done so with previous partners (attracting abusive and unfaithful partners seems to be a serious pattern with XXX according to XXX) and I have consequently withdrawn sex from my "friends" and from myself as before but still find myself longing to resolve things romantically with XXX and fearful for my future alone. I tell myself that if I see any of the following traits in XXX I will know for certain what I am dealing with (but in reality I already suspect some them in all of us):

http://www.chameleongroup.org.uk/npd/sex.html

I have great difficulty knowing my own opinion of wrong and right and rely most closely on those people mentioned for advice but feel almost constantly used and abused when I look deeply within myself. I have also noted / suspect "gaslighting" among all of us as well as traits such as lack of empathy but honestly don't know whether it is them or me projecting onto them or whether I am incorrectly assessing the entire situation. Because sex is a central issue in my awareness of narcissism I find it most noticable in sexual relationships - or suspect it most but honestly don't know whether it is me, my "friends" or XXX who are the true narcisscists or indeed all of us. I know that I have been depressed and had serious issues with fear most of my life - as has XXX and that we are both perhaps more honest about this than my other "friends" but I don't know how honest any of us are really being with ourselves. I also scored 47 Communal, 23 Agentic on the test but without the long term influence of my "friends" suspect I would have scored a little closer to average. HELP!!!

If you are in a long term relationship with a N person and have "managed" for years, is it expected that you just "accept" the bad behavior? I mean you do get used to the expected explosions when they are stressed or dont get their way. I also heard that you should never confront one to their lies without expecting an explosion or at the very least more lies and manipulation. Its almost like they use the confrontation to get into a better position for control.

...of 25 years told me over and over and over that, "No offense, but I prefer oral sex..." which he got and often cogratulated me. "You've outdone yourself" or rated it. Unebelievable that I got pulled in that deep, but I was trying to be a loving wife. Since then I cannot beleive how positive and good and amazing myreally mutual experiences have been with men who just cannot get enough.

They are having an experience during sex that has very very little to do with "us". It can take a brick to whack us over our heads to get it through to us. Thank you for posting. Its an animal of a nature I never knew existed. I have been duped completely. Now I will fathom a way out. And he will be so busy in the mirror he might be suprised bc he will still be getting his beloved blow jobs.

I recently ended a year long relationship with a narcissistic psychiatrist. Let me tell you that's a tough one! The endless manipulation and verbal abuse is a topic all its own so I will stick to sex. After the honeymoon period he mostly treated sex in a mechanical, unfeeling way. The few times I was able to break through to his emotions for reasons that are unknown to me, all i can say is that IT WAS NOT WORTH IT. Feeling emotionally close to me during sex brought on attacks of hate and coldness and distance. I tried with this man but whenever i succeeded in getting any warmth from him it was always followed by hate and distance. I gave up. The only way to have a relationship with him was to have it be only sexual, or only non-sexual. He could not meld sexuality and intimacy.
To his credit he was charismatic, intelligent and very funny. He just could not tolerate closeness.
Oh and the answer is NOT to decrease sexual frequency. He would have walked out the door and found it elsewhere immediately.

I recognize this from my past relationship when you mentioned the narcissistic psychiatrist. I was always wondering why he was behaving the way he did as it left me with questions in my head of frustration.I wasn't sure if he was more of egocentric or the narcisstic type.He was very superficial and he never opened up himself, like he was avoiding emotional conversations because he stated that it was a weakness.The only thing he was talking about was his profession,work and his achivements.Never showed interest to his fellowman but was indirectly seeking attention to boost his ego especially on social media concerning his work as a dance teacher (which we have the same proffession) All he was doing was posting selfies from different countries all the time from their tour or his dance competitions but he never liked,replied or comment to anyone.He had problems rewarding/giving compliments to anyone and although he could find something good about you he could never tell it but his facial expressions was revealing him with a look of " I'm-impressed!- your're- very-skilled- but-I'm-too-proud-to-say- it" The only times he came to me was to just to talk about sex and nothing else.Showing no feelings and no empathy at all like he didn't care if it was disrespectful,humiliating and hurting my feelings.He never wanted to get to know me better either cause he wasn't interested of course. I tried to talk common sense and explain to him but he was avoiding confrontation with excuses.He was either joking away or telling that he likes me and and using "so called" sweet talks(lies w.o.words) just to defend himself but I couldn't take it anymore because it was useless to deal with a person like that and simply because I didn't want to loose my self respect.There is no point to be involved with an egocentric insensitive person who actually have lack of selfconfidence and are closed to long term relationships. He only wants sexual relationship with NO feelings.So I can understand what you mean and you did the right thing by breaking up.I'm happy that I ended up with him too back then thank God!

Sorry if this is well known to everyone, but it seems the pattern is closeness and then cold/distance/personal attacks of anger or hate. Is this the way it always happens? Why? I am just curious. It seems an odd dynamic with intimacy in interpersonal relationships.

I have been with my husband for 3 decades. Once it was our 10yr wedding anniversary -he suggested swinging. At first I was offened, then curious...All I can say is I am glad I did because it opened my eyes to see how intimate some couples are and that he wasn't making love to me....I realized I needed more intimacy and he just couldn't give it....I realized he is selfish and robotic with sex. I never knew why he couldn't make love to his own wife. (I had gone to sex therapy thinking something is wrong with me....tried to talk to him about it with no solution) Reading this is VERY helpful. I got tired of being used for sex and stopped sleeping with him. He moved out. I am realizing I am codependent (and possibly a vunerable narssisst) and want to be alone for awhile. Hopefully I will see signs in future people and stay away. The tough part is I still have trouble seeing him as a manipulator...That is how sick I am, even my kids see it. I am in deep denial. But my Mother is a manipulator so I guess I think it is normal....UGH

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