I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him bringing money with sponsors. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

Same here. Toto Wolff played a role in Parr getting forced out, which is why I think he is a general *******. If/when Wolff assumes control of the team, I believe he will wind up running it into the ground.

I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him bringing money with sponsors. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

I agree. I get the feeling even now though, Frank isn't really running the team the way he did in the old days. I mean that with his iron fist...it might be just he has gotten old, or he recognizes Williams fortunes are such that he is attempting to make sure the team survives long term, which I really don't see happening once he is out of the picture.

And here is my other thing with Susie Wolff...how does Frank even justify having her as a test driver?

She was nothing more than a glorified backmarker in the DTM. Of the 22 drivers in the 2012 DTM, she was one of two who failed to score any points for the whole season. In fact from 2006 to 2012 she scored exactly 4 points in the DTM. What a joke. That has all the makings of a successful test driver.

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

And here is my other thing with Susie Wolff...how does Frank even justify having her as a test driver?

Well, what's that wrong with having her as a test driver? She is not there at the cost of any talented guy who could really benefit from that role. There were plenty of drivers with the skill nowhere near F1 material and they were having a status of a "test driver".

Well, what's that wrong with having her as a test driver? She is not there at the cost of any talented guy who could really benefit from that role. There were plenty of drivers with the skill nowhere near F1 material and they were having a status of a "test driver".

About Bottas: I'm sure he will be an improvement over Senna.

Because her being there has nothing to do with anything other than her idiot husband.

Sorry, I think he's an underhanded little shit based on what happened with Adam Parr.

I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him bringing money with sponsors. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

Well, I think getting a big sponsor is difficult, or a new buyer. At least Wolf will keep the Wiliams name in F1 and keep their employees employed. Have to give him some credit for that. Hope they can build on the fantastic car they had this year.

And here is my other thing with Susie Wolff...how does Frank even justify having her as a test driver?

She was nothing more than a glorified backmarker in the DTM. Of the 22 drivers in the 2012 DTM, she was one of two who failed to score any points for the whole season. In fact from 2006 to 2012 she scored exactly 4 points in the DTM. What a joke. That has all the makings of a successful test driver.

A successful test driver? What's that supposed to be?

Look, she will never race for Williams. Her responsibilities include simulator work, driving an F1 car in a straight line test and maybe some promo stuff. She's more than qualified for that. And Bottas will likely do fine. I have no idea what your gripe is with him. You're just criticising for the sake of criticism.

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

Look, she will never race for Williams. Her responsibilities include simulator work, driving an F1 car in a straight line test and maybe some promo stuff. She's more than qualified for that. And Bottas will likely do fine. I have no idea what your gripe is with him. You're just criticising for the sake of criticism.

These are useful experiences for an up an coming driver, I'd prefer to see someone who might have a chance of having an F1 career getting this experience rather than someone with a poor racing career who happens to be married to one of the team owners.

Look, she will never race for Williams. Her responsibilities include simulator work, driving an F1 car in a straight line test and maybe some promo stuff. She's more than qualified for that. And Bottas will likely do fine. I have no idea what your gripe is with him. You're just criticising for the sake of criticism.

Williams had quite a few successful test drivers in the old days. So did other teams for that matter.

And really how is she qualified?

She was a DTM backmarker who scored 4 points in 7 seasons.

You know what my problem with Bottas is? There's been an influx of idiots allowed onto the grid who have not enough experience to properly drive in Formula 1. Grosjean and Maldonado were the two worst offenders of the 2012 season. Remember, everyone says both of them are fast...sort of like Bottas. I don't feel like seeing another young driver who has spatial awareness problems.

Anyone who gets Ecclestone's blessing, I wouldn't trust with my life, which is what Toto has.

You know what my problem with Bottas is? There's been an influx of idiots allowed onto the grid who have not enough experience to properly drive in Formula 1. Grosjean and Maldonado were the two worst offenders of the 2012 season. Remember, everyone says both of them are fast...sort of like Bottas. I don't feel like seeing another young driver who has spatial awareness problems.

I wonder how drivers are going to get enough F1 experience without driving F1 car? Maldonado and Grosjean had as much experience from pre-F1 as you can only expect from young drivers. They couldn't really get more experience before getting an F1 drive.

There is no reason to think Bottas will be as crash-prone as Grosjean and Maldonado. His race-craft was superior in GP3 and he made almost no crashes in his all testing and FP1 in F1 car.

I wonder how drivers are going to get enough F1 experience without driving F1 car? Maldonado and Grosjean had as much experience from pre-F1 as you can only expect from young drivers. They couldn't really get more experience before getting an F1 drive.

There is no reason to think Bottas will be as crash-prone as Grosjean and Maldonado. His race-craft was superior in GP3 and he made almost no crashes in his all testing and FP1 in F1 car.

I think going with Bottas for 2013 is a bad decision. No race experience since 2011 isn't a good thing.

I'm not sold either on his speed. I think it's a sad day when Williams F1 takes a guy based on him being managed by a minority shareholder in the team. Runs in stark contrast with the way Frank used to run the team.

Just take 5 minutes of your time to look at his record. Won in everything he competed in and has never finished lower than 3rd in every championship's final standing that he took part in!

And your using the fact he has just spent the season testing in almost every FP1 session as a bad thing?

Valterri has alot about him IMO, time will tell. His management has little to do with it i think, a bit like saying Lewis Hamilton only got his seat in 2007 because he was a Mclaren young driver, sure it helped but his record more than justified it. Same for Bottas.

You know what my problem with Bottas is? There's been an influx of idiots allowed onto the grid who have not enough experience to properly drive in Formula 1. Grosjean and Maldonado were the two worst offenders of the 2012 season. Remember, everyone says both of them are fast...sort of like Bottas. I don't feel like seeing another young driver who has spatial awareness problems.

It has nothing to do with experience. If Grosjean didn't have enough experience at the start of this year, I don't know what kind of driver would have: 3 seasons worth of GP2, 2 seasons of Formula 3 euro series, 2 seasons of GP2 Asia, 10 starts of GT1 World Championship, 1 season of Auto GP, a couple of 24h races + before all that he had done seasons of French Formula Renault, Formula Renault Eurocup etc. Not to mention that he had already driven 7 F1 races.

That's shitloads of all kinds of racing experience, mostly open wheel. And Maldonado had nearly as much experience when he got to F1 (4 seasons of GP2 for one thing).

By comparison, a certain Kimi Räikkönen had done exactly 23 car races when he stepped into that Sauber in 2001. I repeat, 23 car races. And a certain Fernando Alonso had done only a couple more than that when he got to F1 the very same season. How many dangerous accidents did they cause?

Just take 5 minutes of your time to look at his record. Won in everything he competed in and has never finished lower than 3rd in every championship's final standing that he took part in!

And your using the fact he has just spent the season testing in almost every FP1 session as a bad thing?

Valterri has alot about him IMO, time will tell. His management has little to do with it i think, a bit like saying Lewis Hamilton only got his seat in 2007 because he was a Mclaren young driver, sure it helped but his record more than justified it. Same for Bottas.

Lewis was also racing in 2006. He didn't take a year off and then come into McLaren in 2007.

Bottas last raced in an actual race at Monza in September 2011. Australia is still 4 months away. At that point, he will not have actually been in a race in about 18 months.

I don't see any upside to this. FP1 isn't the same as running in a race...not like there is any pressure involved.

I would have felt better had he actually been continuing to hone his skill...and yes I know he can't because he is running FP1 sessions. However, I'm a firm believer in keeping your skills sharp by participating in actual races.

It has nothing to do with experience. If Grosjean didn't have enough experience at the start of this year, I don't know what kind of driver would have: 3 seasons worth of GP2, 2 seasons of Formula 3 euro series, 2 seasons of GP2 Asia, 10 starts of GT1 World Championship, 1 season of Auto GP, a couple of 24h races + before all that he had done seasons of French Formula Renault, Formula Renault Eurocup etc. Not to mention that he had already driven 7 F1 races.

That's shitloads of all kinds of racing experience, mostly open wheel. And Maldonado had nearly as much experience when he got to F1 (4 seasons of GP2 for one thing).

By comparison, a certain Kimi Räikkönen had done exactly 23 car races when he stepped into that Sauber in 2001. I repeat, 23 car races. And a certain Fernando Alonso had done only a couple more than that when he got to F1 the very same season. How many dangerous accidents did they cause?

It has nothing to do with experience.

Yes and they happen to be the two best drivers in the world.

Grosjean and Maldonado are not.

Bottas, who knows.

Safety also plays into it...people have been lulled into a false sense of invincibility the more safety is added.

Lewis was also racing in 2006. He didn't take a year off and then come into McLaren in 2007.

Bottas last raced in an actual race at Monza in September 2011. Australia is still 4 months away. At that point, he will not have actually been in a race in about 18 months.

I don't see any upside to this. FP1 isn't the same as running in a race...not like there is any pressure involved.

I would have felt better had he actually been continuing to hone his skill...and yes I know he can't because he is running FP1 sessions. However, I'm a firm believer in keeping your skills sharp by participating in actual races.

Kimi had three season out of racing, how many incidents has he caused this season?

Grosjean came in after a GP2 season, how many has he caused?

The grounds your basing your dislike of BOTTAS getting the seat are shaky, at best. I'd say the fact he now has plenty of experience of an F1 machine means he'll be much more comfortable & confident when next season starts than if he hadn't driven in FP1s. Race craft isn't something you forget over night and its not something you are guaranteed to have just because you've been racing, Kimi & Romain being the perfect examples.

I would have felt better had he actually been continuing to hone his skill...and yes I know he can't because he is running FP1 sessions. However, I'm a firm believer in keeping your skills sharp by participating in actual races.

I think your beliefs are nonsensical.

Kimi had driven exactly two races with other cars on the track in the last 3 years when he came back to F1 this year. Didn't seem to have hurt his racecraft much.

Hulkenberg did not race at all last year, he's done a great job this year.

Damon Hill had driven exactly 2 races the previous year when he got into the Williams in 1993.

Kovalainen also only did testing in 2006. He was fine in 2007. Maybe didn't set F1 on fire, but did beat the super experienced Giancarlo that year.

How many other examples do you need?

Edit: The point here is btw. that none of them were a safety hazard even though they hadn't raced in a while.

I thought Bottas was involved with Williams before Wolff was but according to Wikipedia I was wrong on that one. Whoops.

I don't rate him quite as highly as everyone else does, I have to admit. His record looks good on paper, but his F3 Euroseries campaign didn't live up to expectations when you consider he was driving for ART both seasons. GP3 did a lot to salvage his reputation, but I always thought that compared to the competition both he and Sims were really a bit too experienced to still be racing at that level - after 2 years of Euroseries the next step should have been WSbR or GP2. And even then it took him until the second half of 2011 to get it together.

But what do I know, Williams seem to think he's good. And I can't pretend that I'll miss Senna either.