YOU and YOUR guy (Obama) are the liars (but you already knew that and are just trying to obfuscate things, aren't you). As an example of what I'm talking about, consider some of the takiyya Hussein has uttered:

-"As President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide" (but he didn't).

-"I've done more for Israel's security than any President ever" (actually, he's aided the Muslim Brotherhood takeover of Egypt and Libya and allowed weapons to pour into Gaza, while snubbing Israel's leader).

-in 2007, he released a statement that he "has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian" (actually, his name is Muslim, his purported father was Muslim, his stepfather was Muslim, he attended Muslim classes in Indonesia and learned Islamic prayers in Arabic, says the Muslim call to prayer is the most beautiful sound at sunset, referred to his Muslim faith on TV, ALWAYS uses the adjective "Holy" before the noun 'Koran', bowed to a Muslim king, said he'll stand with the Muslims, said America is not a Christian nation, said America is "one of the largest Muslim countries on the planet", and insisted that a cross be covered before he gave a speech near it).

You asked for some "Facts". Of course, you presented none of your own; just puerile (look it up) name-calling. Nonetheless, here is a great big, fat, incontrovertible fact for you:

19,666

(In case you haven't guessed, that's the number of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11, as of today. Evidently, you just can't wait until they start happening in Dearborn too, can you?)

YOU and YOUR guy (Obama) are the liars
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lots of completely off topic text
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Evidently, you just can't wait until they start happening in Dearborn too, can you?)

So is this an admission that "Dearborn already effectively has sharia law." is a lie?

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This is one reason why I post here. You have no concept of atheism. You are in denial that anyone could not believe in a god simply because there is no evidence for one.

The next step from "doesn't fit your lifestyle" is "atheists hate god". I hope you see how absurd the 2nd is.

I'm not in denial of anything. The point I'm trying to make now and have been trying to make is Christian's and atheists arguing over who's right is futile. There's no way you'll change my views and no way ill change yours. And your saying I'm in denial and posting such a weak response only shows I got you thinking, which was my original intent. Not to change your views though, I could care less and you have every right to believe anything you please. I just think one should THINK before speaking. Some of the posts by atheists here are very offensive as are some of the Christian responses. If ANY of you TRUELY believe in god or in good morals and values you should think about what you're posting and how it may be taken by others rather than just spewing forth your views with not a care in the world how it might affect others in the conversation.
(And by you and yours I'm speaking to all the atheist extremists and supposed christians posting here, not just you)

YOU and YOUR guy (Obama) are the liars (but you already knew that and are just trying to obfuscate things, aren't you). As an example of what I'm talking about, consider some of the takiyya Hussein has uttered:

Lots of Bill Maher wanna-be's here in this particular forum. I'm all for freedom and I don't care what you atheists believe but do you think that posting your views and beating down Christians in a religious forum is the right thing to do? You may not believe in god (your loss) but at least try to be decent and act like an American and allow those with views to discuss their beliefs without your incessant heckling.

Hop off your cross. You're not being victimized or oppressed here. If you can't take a little bloody nose maybe you ought to stay home.

If you realize that someone could be an atheist simply because there is no evidence for a deity, why would you say

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inner doubt about your position.
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Ya know that little feeling you get when you talk about there not being a god?
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You are making assumptions that are just not true.

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Originally Posted by mike g35

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The point I'm trying to make now and have been trying to make is Christian's and atheists arguing over who's right is futile. There's no way you'll change my views and no way ill change yours.
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While generally true, this is not absolute.

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Originally Posted by mike g35

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And your saying I'm in denial and posting such a weak response only shows I got you thinking, which was my original intent.
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It only got me thinking that you can't comprehend atheism.

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Originally Posted by mike g35

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Not to change your views though, I could care less and you have every right to believe anything you please. I just think one should THINK before speaking. Some of the posts by atheists here are very offensive as are some of the Christian responses. If ANY of you TRUELY believe in god or in good morals and values you should think about what you're posting and how it may be taken by others rather than just spewing forth your views with not a care in the world how it might affect others in the conversation.
(And by you and yours I'm speaking to all the atheist extremists and supposed christians posting here, not just you)

I look at it exactly the opposite. I don't take offense when I'm told I'm going to burn in hell forever or that I can't be moral without a god, and I ask that theists not take offense if I were to say that I think they've based their lives on a lie.

edit

Do you understand why "atheists hate god" is a nonsensical statement?

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With all due respect, why the heck would a free people (well, half of us anyway) be so stupid as to import hordes of fascist colonizers with a 14 century track record of waging wars and committing genocides in order to impose their tyranny, including the abolition of free speech?

My copy of the Bill of Rights doesn't limit free speech to only those places that Muslims allow it. Apparently yours does?

So then you're in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church screaming "God hates America" and "God hates fags" and such at people's funerals? Especially soldier's funerals?

My friend everything I've read here indicates you have no religion, only issues. Can't really have religious issues without religion. You just wanna throw your views out to make Christians angry and to get a reaction. As intelligent as your arguments sound your basis for posting them is immature at best.

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We have issues with YOUR religion and every other religion. A lot of us think religion needs to be debated anywhere and everywhere. Not because we wanna get you mad... that's your issue... and very unchristian like by the way. But it needs to be debated where ever possible to stop its spread. Someone might come in this forum confused about what they believe, and you religious folks will poison their minds with lies. If it's possible to help at least one person wake up and lay down their delusions of ghosts and wizardry by presenting logic and rational thinking... then we're doing the right thing by being here.

Nearly every post I read is a prime example. Of course I'm not saying that Christians don't push their views as well, that's obviously not the case. What made me make that statement is the persistent muttering after you stated your position and your inability to accept you may be wrong about anything.

I was a true believer until I was 41. I was wrong. Give me some reliable evidence that I'm wrong and I'll change my mind again.

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Originally Posted by mike g35

Your condescending attitudes and vigorous defense of what you believe to be right proves more than anything else your inner doubt about your position.

Hypocritical condescending nonsense backed up by nothing.

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Originally Posted by mike g35

All I ask is be respectful of EVERYONE'S views, not just your own. I don't even fall under the classification of Christian but I have been really offended by the ignorant ranting of atheists on this thread. If you believe so strongly that you're correct about there not being a god then why defend it by beating up the people who disagree?

If you read and understood the posts then you should know that's not what most atheists here believe. They see no reliable evidence for the existence of a God. There could be. Show me the proof. Personal opinion that there is is not proof. Most of the anger from the atheists comes from the straw man arguments and other forms of dishonesty they have to endure. Many of them are frustrated by theists repeatedly pushing the same logical fallacies no matter how many times they get refuted.

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Originally Posted by mike g35

Ya know that little feeling you get when you talk about there not being a god? Yeh, there's your proof. That's god letting you know he's there, you just refuse to listen because it doesn't fit your lifestyle.
(Sorry, rant over, carry on)

Of course it is. You're telling us that we heathens are bad people and we're picking on your poor Christians. That's not the case.

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It's simply staring the facts.

No... we are the ones usually stating facts. You guys state 2000 year old mythology.

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Atheists, you're views are noted. We get it,

So we should just leave and be silent right? That's why we persist. Most religious people want only to silence us.

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your "logic" will not change our minds nor steer us from gods light nor make us walk another path.

Not true. I have been having a back and forth via PM with a Christian that is starting to wake up. He's worried about how his family and friends will treat him and he's asked me for advice on what to do since I and many like me have had to go through that when waking up from our delusions of God and mythology. He's been slowing realizing religion is silly and this forum has helped him wake up.

I had a few short PMs with another memeber who was on the fence and I got the feeling he was afraid it would ruin his marriage to announce that he no longer beleived. Don't know which way he went though. We only exchanged a few PMs. My guess is that he'll pretend to believe to save his marriage but inside he'll know it all to be false.

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Have you in your infinite wisdom ever considered you may be wrong?

Always. That's why we rely on what can be KNOWN rather than what is believed. And our views are ALWAYS open to reconsideration should new evidence become available. That's the strength of our views. Yours are locked in stone from 2000 years ago and no matter how silly they become given our level of knowledge, you must twist and turn them and pound the puzzle pieces to make them fit. That is why you feel attacked. Because we are at a point in man's knowledge where you guys are having to stay constantly on your toes to defend your dogma. Not from us... but from knowledge. It's only going to become more and more overwhelming for you. The more we learn the less rational religion will become. The God of the gaps will have fewer and fewer places to hide. That's why you feel attacked, because God is running out of hiding spaces. He's getting smaller and smaller as our knowledge grows. As God was invented by man from a lack of knowledge, he will be destroyed by the acquisition of it.

John Benitez Jr, 63, worked at Dearborn's taxpayer-funded health clinic. A female supervisor told him not to treat head-scarved Muslim women. He complied until a doctor ordered him to treat Muslim women the same as any others. He obeyed, and was fired less than a month later.

This is called sharia.

Sharia forbids non-Muslim proselytism. Dearborn violated the free-speech rights of Pastor Saieg in 2009 by barring him from handing out Christian leaflets at an Arab festival.

This is called sharia.

In 2011, Dearborn denied Pastor Terry Jones a permit to protest (! Since when do we Americans need a 'permit' to protest?) outside a mosque. This is against our freedom of speech.

This is called sharia.

Dhimmis are so quick to attack the faith of our fathers, spreading Christophobic hate (tax money wasted on 'Piss Christ' "art"), but continually kow-tow to special treatment for Muslims, such as spending tax dollars for halal meals at schools, Muslim footbaths at airports and universities, prayer rooms and prayer breaks for Muslim workers only, even offering to abolish our First Amendment in deference to sharia, etc. But be careful what you wish for, dhimmis. You may find out, too late, that they might just behead atheists and homosexuals first.

John Benitez Jr, 63, worked at Dearborn's taxpayer-funded health clinic. A female supervisor told him not to treat head-scarved Muslim women. He complied until a doctor ordered him to treat Muslim women the same as any others. He obeyed, and was fired less than a month later.

This is called sharia.

Sharia forbids non-Muslim proselytism. Dearborn violated the free-speech rights of Pastor Saieg in 2009 by barring him from handing out Christian leaflets at an Arab festival.

This is called sharia.

In 2011, Dearborn denied Pastor Terry Jones a permit to protest (! Since when do we Americans need a 'permit' to protest?) outside a mosque. This is against our freedom of speech.

This is called sharia.

Dhimmis are so quick to attack the faith of our fathers, spreading Christophobic hate (tax money wasted on 'Piss Christ' "art"), but continually kow-tow to special treatment for Muslims, such as spending tax dollars for halal meals at schools, Muslim footbaths at airports and universities, prayer rooms and prayer breaks for Muslim workers only, even offering to abolish our First Amendment in deference to sharia, etc. But be careful what you wish for, dhimmis. You may find out, too late, that they might just behead atheists and homosexuals first.

Wow...

I don't think there are many people that look at some of these behaviors and think: "its ok because they are Muslim" but by the. Same Token, you sound like a lunatic with all this maniacal raving.

When was the last time a Muslim showed up at your door while oure having dinner and tried to get you to covert ? Oh never? Thought so. When Muslims start threatening you or your family, by all means defend yourself by any means necessary. But until then, why don't you worry more about being less angry and paranoid? Oh yeah, turning off fox news might be a good p,ace to start.

Of course it is. You're telling us that we heathens are bad people and we're picking on your poor Christians. That's not the case.

Did someone actually tell you that, or is something else bothering you?

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No... we are the ones usually stating facts. You guys state 2000 year old mythology.

I have seen a lot of hypothesis, but very few facts.

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So we should just leave and be silent right? That's why we persist. Most religious people want only to silence us.

Ironic, I have seen things quite the other way round.

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Not true. I have been having a back and forth via PM with a Christian that is starting to wake up. He's worried about how his family and friends will treat him and he's asked me for advice on what to do since I and many like me have had to go through that when waking up from our delusions of God and mythology. He's been slowing realizing religion is silly and this forum has helped him wake up.

So, you claim to have no religion, yet you evangelize for it?

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I had a few short PMs with another memeber who was on the fence and I got the feeling he was afraid it would ruin his marriage to announce that he no longer beleived. Don't know which way he went though. We only exchanged a few PMs. My guess is that he'll pretend to believe to save his marriage but inside he'll know it all to be false.

To be this angry and evangelistic for your faith, you seem no different than those here to misrepresent Christianity in their actions. In fact, I postulate you are the same person from the opposite polarity.

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Always. That's why we rely on what can be KNOWN rather than what is believed.

What can be known? Macro Evolution has never been proven. There is no origin to the Big Bang. From my perspective nothing that you hold on to so dearly has ever been proven.

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And our views are ALWAYS open to reconsideration should new evidence become available.

Not from the vitriolic recalitrant dogma I have seen.

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That's the strength of our views.

That they are unprovable and you hold to them with the dogma of a true zealot?

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Yours are locked in stone from 2000 years ago and no matter how silly they become given our level of knowledge, you must twist and turn them and pound the puzzle pieces to make them fit.

And yours are like jello, always wanting the same thing to be true, and when it is shown to be absurd, you come up with another hypothesis to justify the claim. You need a reverse X-Files T-shirt that simply says, "I don't want to believe!" That would be more honest.

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That is why you feel attacked. Because we are at a point in man's knowledge where you guys are having to stay constantly on your toes to defend your dogma. Not from us... but from knowledge.

I suppose that might work on the easily baffled. So, far I have seen no evidence of your knowledge other than a belief you are trying to prove true, and have yet to date succeeded.

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It's only going to become more and more overwhelming for you.

Not at all, I am confident in what I believe. It is not the torment you project. Quite the opposite, actually. Another comforting aspect is death doesn't worry me in the slightest. A very liberating place to be.

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The more we learn the less rational religion will become.

I really haven't seen anything rational from you yet. Most posts I have read have been full of anger, rage, and its lesser cousin sardoic repitoire.

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The God of the gaps will have fewer and fewer places to hide.

Ironic. I find that to be true of Macro Evolution and the Big Bang. No one has an adequae explanation for the biogenesis of the Cambrian level, or the origin of the Big Bang, yet these beliefs are persistantly belocosely declared as "fact". Saying it LOUDER, like another language, does not make it inteligible.

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That's why you feel attacked, because God is running out of hiding spaces. He's getting smaller and smaller as our knowledge grows. As God was invented by man from a lack of knowledge, he will be destroyed by the acquisition of it.

On the contrary, I feel blessed. These things that you attempt to postulate without evidence were foretold long before either of us were born. It provides further confidence in my belief.

Did someone actually tell you that, or is something else bothering you?

I have seen a lot of hypothesis, but very few facts.

Ironic, I have seen things quite the other way round.

So, you claim to have no religion, yet you evangelize for it?

To be this angry and evangelistic for your faith, you seem no different than those here to misrepresent Christianity in their actions. In fact, I postulate you are the same person from the opposite polarity.

What can be known? Macro Evolution has never been proven. There is no origin to the Big Bang. From my perspective nothing that you hold on to so dearly has ever been proven.

Not from the vitriolic recalitrant dogma I have seen.

That they are unprovable and you hold to them with the dogma of a true zealot?

And yours are like jello, always wanting the same thing to be true, and when it is shown to be absurd, you come up with another hypothesis to justify the claim. You need a reverse X-Files T-shirt that simply says, "I don't want to believe!" That would be more honest.

I suppose that might work on the easily baffled. So, far I have seen no evidence of your knowledge other than a belief you are trying to prove true, and have yet to date succeeded.

Not at all, I am confident in what I believe. It is not the torment you project. Quite the opposite, actually. Another comforting aspect is death doesn't worry me in the slightest. A very liberating place to be.

I really haven't seen anything rational from you yet. Most posts I have read have been full of anger, rage, and its lesser cousin sardoic repitoire.

Ironic. I find that to be true of Macro Evolution and the Big Bang. No one has an adequae explanation for the biogenesis of the Cambrian level, or the origin of the Big Bang, yet these beliefs are persistantly belocosely declared as "fact". Saying it LOUDER, like another language, does not make it inteligible.

On the contrary, I feel blessed. These things that you attempt to postulate without evidence were foretold long before either of us were born. It provides further confidence in my belief.

I'll have to respond to this later.. heading to my chick's house tonight. You know... the one you said I abuse and who's Son (In reality daughter) I'm treating like a burden?

Yeah, I'm going over there to abuse her some more with my hard heart. No worries... I'll be back.

The level at which people are waking up from the delusion of religion is directly proportional to the level at which we as a species are learning about our world and universe. We are at a point where the religious are simply either uneducated or CHOOSE to be ignorant of what we now know because their fear of not believing is greater than the obvious truth that they don't need to. It's hard for some to lay down their security blanket that brings them so much comfort and peace.

Muscogee accused me of condescending. This tone is a pretty good example of condescension. Most real Christians would say, at best, that your unbelief canít be helped. Itís inherited. You didnít eat the fruit, but youíre paying the penalty for it because fallen Adam generates fallen children, just like giraffes have baby giraffes and not baby hippos. I donít think we believers say demeaning things like youíre 'uneducated' or 'ignorant' or 'deluded' or need a 'security blanket.' These are personal attacks. If any of us does, shame on him. Itís not charitable. I donít know what whack-a-mole is, but it comes to mind when I think of this forum. The minute someone makes an assertion of faith, or looks to the Word of God for an answer, you guys are right there with mallets to whack that mole down. Almost every reply to a believerís post includes an attack on the faith position, even if itís not the topic of the thread. Like ďNo, I havenít see the new Glock 23, and by the way, God doesnít exist and youíre the cause of all the worldís evils.Ē You just canít let the statements pass. Youíre like the Revolutionary Guard of atheism, the last line of warriors that spring into action lest a claim of the truth the Christian position should go unanswered. Thatís what I meant when I said thereís a pathology here. Itís pathological behavior. This really should be called the atheist forum, because you guys own it. You seem to feel put upon and threatened, if not by individuals, then by institutionalized religion.

Maybe youíve heard this before, but Christians Ė the real ones Ė donít think much of the word Ďreligion.í There are a LOT of unfortunate labels in this debate. We donít own that label, but itís all youíve given us. You take issue with Ďreligiousí people, and if you were to poll the regenerated, youíd find that we do too.

Add to the mix the historical atrocities committed by Ďreligiousí people Ė the Inquisitions, the Crusades, etc. All this is laid at the feet of ĎChristiansí but they were not committed or endorsed by CHristians. You may or may not realize that there are distinctions. There is the church, and there is the Church. The first is an assembly of religious unbelievers. Itís visible, and itís everywhere. Examples of these include Catholics, Seventh Day Adventists, LDS, Methodists, Unitarians, Jehovahís Witnesses, Assemblies of God, and a host of lesser known groups who hold to one or more heretical doctrines that disqualify them as 'Christians.' If I painted with a broad brush, I would say they are not Christian. Not even close. The denominations probably contain one or two regenerated people, but those people will eventually become uncomfortable and leave. If we use the analogy of the sower, these people are the seeds that sprang up quickly; theyíre the one that fell on hard ground and took no root; theyíre the ones choked by thorns. Theyíre counterfeits, impostors, heretics, and they are behind most of the historical events you decry. The Inquisitions and Crusades were led by Popes, not Apostles. That alone takes Christians off the table as the guilty parties. The people behind these events werenít Christians, and therefore, your beef is not with Christians. Itís with sinners in red robes. People no more saved and Spirit-led than you are. Many of them are outwardly moral, and even well-meaning Ė theyíll say that God loves you and is anxious for you to come to Him. And theyíre wrong.

Then there is the Church. The invisible assembly of the saints of all time. This is the body of real, regenerated believers. They donít persecute anyone. They donít use the Bible as a hammer, they donít antagonize the lost, they donít show up at rallies and protests and marches to wave insulting signs. They make simple declarations of faith, they stand on what they believe and cannot be moved off of it Ė ever Ė and they will never turn their backs on it Ė ever. Like the Church they belong to, they are Ďinvisible.í These are the people who give to those in need; who loan without expecting repayment; who watch their tongues (not easy, and we're not always successful); who help the needy; who act toward you with kindness and restraint; who quietly go about their lives relying on the grace of God every minute. These people too, have fallen natures, but they have something else: the Spirit of the living God dwelling inside them, and it is this Spirit that makes the best behavior possible. Their dual natures are constantly at war, they are constantly provoked and tempted, and they fight, but they fight themselves.

You canít tell the difference between these groups through casual observation. They all look the same to you. Because the lost man is dead in trespasses and sins Ė as they once were Ė he canít accept that they even exist. He can read the Bible (some of you apparently have) but he canít understand it because it wasnít written for him. It was written for them. (The truth is, the unbeliever really shouldnít read the Bible, because while it is a message of grace and forgiveness to the regenerated, to him, it is a message of judgment, and the greater his knowledge, the greater his responsibility, and his eventual judgment for not obeying the light he has.) To the extent that you have an issue with Christians, it is an issue with the message. It's the message that judges you. They donít judge you Ė the gospel judges you. It openly judges you Ė this is why you hate it. This is why you have to silence it, and silence the messengers. In order to take the sting out of the judgment that you know is coming, you try to discredit the message. Itís a futile endeavor. He is coming back, you will be judged, and so would we, had we not been plucked out of the mass of humanity, washed, brought back to life Ė eternal life that will never end Ė and placed in Godís Son to enjoy the benefits of His salvation. We donít deserve it. We didnít earn it. Weíre as stunned as anyone that God did this, but He did it for His purposes, and they are at present unknown to us, or known only vaguely: He does what He does ultimately for His own glory. Both in saving some, and judging others, He is glorified. Thatís all we know. Weíll know more later.

Coming here and debating these issues is great fun Ė itís a kind of sport. If we werenít talking about this, we could all be friends and go shooting. This is the thing that links us together. We like Glocks. This forum is a sideshow, and no oneís mind is going to be changed. I jumped into this thread to correct a brother who offered bad counsel, and in that sense I crashed the thread. I donít have an agenda to convert you, so Iím playing, just like you.

The big issue you guys have is that there is no proof for the existence of God. The Bible says you know Heís there, because you can see His creation. If you lived in a jungle and never heard a word about the gospel, you would still know that God exists because you can see His work all around you. Practically every primitive culture had some sort of sacrifice system in place. Why didnít isolated groups of people Ė if they were going to create a god in their image Ė create a benevolent one? Because humanity is young, and it has racial memory of the Fall and the flood. Youíve heard about the cavalryman who found a seashell on a mountain, and asked a Crow Indian how it got there. He said that long ago, there was a great flood, and a man and his family sailed around in a boat and became the father of all the Indians. There is a geological record of the flood. There is an expanding universe that started with an inexplicable BANG. There is the Apostle Paul, who was on his way to Syria to kill Christians, and who was knocked off his horse by a great light, and a voice. The conversion of Paul is said to be the greatest argument for the truth of Christianity. It was a textbook conversion. (God chose him, by the way, not the other way around -- I say this for the benefit of Arminians ; ). He did a bona fide 180 degree turn in his life. There is the fact that the entire world has been changed by the Christian message Ė two thousand yearsí worth of history that shaped cultures and continents. And you propose to undermine all that by enlightening us with your modern, educated, incorrigible assertion that it was all B.S.? Thatís no choice at all.

But we can have fun here. Or we can forget about it and just go shooting.

Wow...you sound like a lunatic with all this maniacal raving.
When Muslims start threatening you or your family, by all means defend yourself by any means necessary. But until then, why don't you worry more about being less angry and paranoid?

"Maniacal raving" -you mean stuff like, "Give me liberty or give me death" (Patrick Henry), the Bill of rights, including Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech, and "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms..."(Thomas Jefferson)? George Washington and I would disagree with you. But Islamic sharia law agrees with you -it demands no 'dhimmi' (one who feels himself subdued by Islam) has any right to own or bear arms.

Opposing tyranny and supporting the right of our children not to be raped by Mohammedans is "angry and paranoid"? That's not how John Quincy Adams saw it. He correctly noted that "the essence of (Mohammed's) doctrine was violence and lust". Back in his day, most Americans were willing to fight for freedom, so he could say, "While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace on earth..."

Newsflash: Muslims started threatening all non-Muslim families 14 centuries ago. Amelia Earhart is credited with saying, "Courage is the price Life exacts for granting peace". Given that we have so many courage-challenged dhimmis today, it's little wonder that Muslims are growing more belligerent. They smell blood in the water. I hope dhimmis grow enough spine in time.

My friend everything I've read here indicates you have no religion, only issues. Can't really have religious issues without religion. You just wanna throw your views out to make Christians angry and to get a reaction. As intelligent as your arguments sound your basis for posting them is immature at best.

Your attempt to analyze me is noted, and rejected. I most certainly do have issues with religion, and religious adherents. When they attempt to alter laws or bend society to their particular religious interpretation, that creates issues for me. When they advocate a worldview based upon their religious beliefs, with no objective foundation, that creates an issue for me and for everyone else who does not share those beliefs. When their religious beliefs cause them to outright lie and misrepresent history and science, that creates an issue for everyone who prefers reality to scriptural interpretation.

__________________
"Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair. Or beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back."

And please understand this isn't a personal attack. It's simply staring the facts. You're as free to tell us about your views as I am, but harassing folks for the sake of arguing is simply not cool.
Atheists, you're views are noted. We get it, you believe in nothing. Some of us do, and your "logic" will not change our minds nor steer us from gods light nor make us walk another path. Enjoy your views, state your views, but please don't act like the rest of us are idiots. Have you in your infinite wisdom ever considered you may be wrong?

I consider that all the time, and am open to any evidence that I am, in fact, wrong. Care to provide some?

__________________
"Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair. Or beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back."

Our laws: -freedom of religion
-freedom of speech
-no murdering, or even making death threats

Tell it to the Branch Davidians. Freedom of speech? When was the last the American Nazi party or the American Communist party nominated a presidential candidate? Any idea why? No, I'm not defending Nazis or Communists. I'm defending their right to assemble and speak. I'm defending the First Amendment. Meanwhile some Muslims killed some people. So did some Christians.