In the end, everybody has different preferences. But at least the thread was an interesting read. (for me at least)

Well yeah, of course that's true. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be on the discussion forums in the first place. The person I quoted was the thread starter. He asked what seemed like a legitimate question and people gave their perspectives. After 70+ posts, the OP comes back after taking none of the replies into consideration and questioned the entire majority opinion of the class based on a couple minutes of playing a character that didn't even belong to him.

I wasn't bashing the thread, I was pointing out the blatant disregard in his final post. It's funny, if anything.

"Unless you're to the point where you basically dont even need gear anymore, you're massively under geared."

I really think that sums the rogue problems up though. I nearly rerolled to rogue this expansion, I love rogues very much. It's just my main alt now, but my rogue IS massively undergeared. The rotation in any spec - I've tried all 3 - is extremely stale and very dynamic. I thought I'd like assassination more because of the procs, but after two raids of assassination today I can confidently say it was mindnumbing.

I have vast experience with 9 classes, having raided quite seriously with many of them. On my rogue I had to ask other rogues, despite reading tons of guides, if I was doing it wrong - it feels like something is missing, a massive spell. Like ommitting unstable affliction from your rotation, something like that.

The problem with rogue - pve - is the gear dependancy - our rotation will start feeling a lot more fluid the moment we're not energy starved and staring at the bar waiting for it to pool. Furthermore, like many other melee classes, weapons just matter too much. It doesn't matter how many buttons you push or how hard your best you're doing, without the proper weapons (epic ones), you're just gonna be shit. Period. That's a completely retarded concept and outdated to boot. Add to that the fact that "haste will fix us later in the expansion", and I can genuinely say: rogues ARE broken. If a class is relient on gear to feel playable (note I'm saying FEEL, not "IS" - rogues are playable, rogues are viable. That's not what I'm on about), then something needs to change. Heck, for that reason warrior's rage was changed again and again, as gear had such a huge impact on how their play was - ragestarved constantly in early gear levels, ripping stuff apart in high gear levels.

Furthermore, our rotations are stale. Generally you get 5 combopoints with attack A, and spend them with attack B or C. Not even the blindside procs make assassination interesting - they're too few, their impact is barely noticable, but at the very least it brings some variety in a spec that otherwise has barely anything else to do but pooling energy.

Though I thought I hated combat the most, the opposite became true. The spec feels slightly faster, at least has something to keep up even if it's a shitty buff like S&D (which, as others have pointed out, is not really noticable when you play - it's just your shiny bar or aura), and adrenaline rush really does get my adrenaline pumping a bit - I get to spam something, I feel powerful for those brief moments. Killing Spree has its downside but you can't argue that it's very unique, especially compared to a hopeless cooldown like Vendetta, which not only locks you down on that target for the duration but honestly, I wouldn't know Vendetta wore off if I didn't track it with an aura. You can't say the same for Rush or KS. Bandit's Guile, personally, makes me think a bit more about what buttons I press when and how, when I align stuff up and allows me to maximize a great deal more than in any other rogue spec. Whether the concept is sound or not however is up for debate.

Subtlety, once the spec I loved and adored, still has a warm place in my heart. I hate that they removed keeping recup up. I loved the complexity of the spec, the things to watch out for. I love backstab, and shadow dance. But what was once a unique spec was brought down to be a duplicate of the other specs. Feeling equally slow, but at least with a 1min cooldown that drastically changes the way your play feels - or at least, Ambush spam feels a lot better than putting Vendetta up.

The spec identities need to be brought back. The time we spend staring at energy slowly refilling needs to change. Rotations need to become less predictable.

You guys are the rogue pros, and there's tons of topics with suggestion. One thing I'd personally like for Assassination would be to build more on the Venomous Wounds concept. I love when I suddenly get so much energy back, like a rush of energy. I'm imagining things like.. For example, getting this rush of energy and a new ability that actually actually hits for more than a wet noodle and makes me feel happy it procced (unlike blindside) would become available under this buff, for 3 stacks, that hits hard and puts up a dot, that is cheap or even free to use - similar to hand of guldan that applies a shadowflame dot per stack used, or explosive shot - while you keep your energy uncapped by spamming mutilate while waiting for the opportune moment to refresh said dot before your energy rush buff wears off. Or imagine this buff would actually copy rupture and our poison to a new target if used. I just pulled something completely random out of my ass here, I'm not saying it's a good idea, but just something like this would "un-stale" the rotation so much!

This became a wall of text. Sorry and thanks for reading, I suppose. I'm always lurking in the rogue forums, but I don't really post in class forums as a rule.. Anyway, to the OP: rogues leave a lot to be desired, but they're still fun. As someone said, they haven't changed much. If you liked them in the past, you'll probably like them now. Their mechanics and rotations just feel very vanilla-ish, especially compared to classes like WW monks.

If you liked them in the past, you'll probably like them now. Their mechanics and rotations just feel very vanilla-ish, especially compared to classes like WW monks.

I disagree with that statement. Rogues just feel out of place in PvP where the pace is slowed down by force. Things like a CD on Shiv or the "new" Vanish introduced with the pre-cataclysm patch are adding their part. Then there are talents we have to invest talentpoints for which were baseline in previous expansions.

I dont desire rogues to be massively broken like they were in 2.4.3 for example but they just feel gimped and forced into a world they dont fit in considering their skillset.
Id if the class would be somewhat like it were back in 3.3. Even tho wizards shat hard on us in arenas it was actually fast paced and had a high skillcap.

After four expansions rogues changed so little its kind of annoying really , nearly all the classes got new mechanics but rogues just get one extra cooldown to use. I can give you my stamp of approval when I say rogues are one of the most boring classes to play at the moment ( if not the most)

After four expansions rogues changed so little its kind of annoying really , nearly all the classes got new mechanics but rogues just get one extra cooldown to use. I can give you my stamp of approval when I say rogues are one of the most boring classes to play at the moment ( if not the most)

Rogues changed so little in 8 years i am surprised we did not get a footnote in the celebrations

Rogues feel different than most classes, since they received so little changes over the years. Maybe that's why I like my rogue the most. He still "feels" the same way as when I played him in the older expansions. There have been changes of course, but far less/minimal than other classes.

I cannot pinpoint the exact reason, but somehow my rogue is still my favourite class. I have played almost every class and all of them were fun to play, but they "didn't feel" like my rogue.

Maybe I'm just one of the few people who actually likes rogues, though.

Maybe I'm just one of the few people who actually likes rogues, though.

If we didn't love the class, we wouldn't be here in the first place. Don't pay any mind to those complaining about pvp or structured raid dps output. What about those of us who loved poison crafting or pickpocketing for hours to level up lockpicking. Those of us who loved stealth farming and realized that it felt like we were playing in our own little world that other classes would never get to experience.

What about those of us who saw the massive changes to warlock and hoped for the best with our class. Screw performance, I'm talking about a control revamp and an aesthetic overhaul. This is not the game it was in vanilla anymore and thank god for that. The world, the classes, the systems, everything is different. So why does rogue feel like it got left behind? Our unique abilities were handed out to other classes and labelled "mobility." Our useful abilities were taken from us and redistributed as choose-one-or-the-other talent choices. The speed of the class is constantly castrated by an extremely outdated energy regeneration system.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but while the community bashes each other in a dick measuring contest, comparing arena rankings or raid progress, some of us just want our class to be rewarding to play again.