Open Thread: Lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty

The Yankees fell to Jon Lester and the Red Sox today, which isn’t all that surprising because he is one of the three or five best pitchers in the league, but I sure hope the Yanks are ready to face some more lefties. Tomorrow they get C.J. Wilson (who’s holding lefties to a .102/.190/.133 batting line this year), the next day it’s Cliff Lee (who’s awesome), and the day after that it’s Bruce Chen (who stinks). Brace yourself for a whole lotta Austin Kearns and Marcus Thames over the next few days, I suspect they’ll play in each of the next three.

Anyway, here’s tonight’s open thread. The Cardinals and Reds are on ESPN in a matchup of the two NL Central contenders, but you can also kill some time with this. I got 180 out of 188, didn’t miss any obvious ones though. You guys know what to do, so have at it.

I am happy Jesus is batting third. I did not understand why he batted 4th all year. He must bat in the first inning of every game. I hated it last week when he lead off the second inning (with a double)….

http://twitter.com/riddering Riddering

He hasn’t been #4 in the lineup all season. In fact, he’s quite often been hitting 5 or 6 in the past.

I saw the mailbag question the other day about Cano v. Pedroia and it really was shocking me to see Yankee fans still think those two are in the same class of players.

If you are basing your opinion on WAR + UZR, because Pedroia has according to UZR been a much better defender in his career as a reason the gap is even close now, then you really have too much faith in those formulas. Also, you have put far too much trust in the people who created the formulas and their ability to quantify the game in such a simple and all encompassing manner.

A huge chunk of Pedroia’s “value” is based on his UZR, so you really have to have a whole lot of trust in that statistic with its many flaws and the people behind it to put him on the same level as Cano now. The whole it has been more than 3 years worth of samples so it is reliable now is an incredibly flawed concept that is put out there in itself, but that is more a discussion of UZR and not about the main topic here.

I hate to take the whole stat geek approach as I do appreciate the advances in baseball statistics, but when you think the gap is close based on that, it really is time to step away from the computer and just try to appreciate the game in its real manner, how teams are constructed, and what “value” REALLY means.

Cano has become a franchise player. He has become some you can build a lineup around. Someone that you can build a TEAM around. He has become that good of an offensive player, that on a team full of HOF he is now the best.

Pedroia is nowhere close to that. As good as he is for a 2B, he is still a complementary player. He is not someone you have on your team and you say I can build my team and lineup around him, especially in the AL East.

With a player like Pedroia, you still need that great hitter that Boston has in Youkilis to really be on the path towards building an excellent team.

Cano has left Pedroia in the dust this year with the improvements he has made in his game. Going forward there shouldn’t be any concerns about this staying the same, because Cano has one of the best swings in all of baseball.

Pedroia is a great player. Not questioning. He is one of the best 2B in baseball.

Cano though, is now one of the best players in all of baseball. He is a top 5, elite player.

http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

Dustin is also very likely to have a (ahem) short shelf life. His game is all about max effort all the time, and with each injury that slows him down or saps his power a bit, his ceiling gets lower and lower. The game comes much easier to Cano. He has an easy power swing, smooth fielding style and big arm for a 2B. The likelihood of Robbie produce big numbers for the next 5 years(+) is much greater than that of Pedroia, who you can easily see burning out and breaking down.

BTW-ZZ, have you ever considered doing any blogging? I could copy and paste this as a guest post over at TYU and credit it to you, if you like.

ZZ

I have never really considered blogging. The main reason because of how time consuming it is and I just don’t have the time on a regular basis. Also, I am much better at responding/reacting to posts/people. Not creative enough to sit down and think of things to write about.

I really do appreciate the work you and others that blog do. It really is a huge commitment being able to think of multiple things to write about a day is impressive.

Thanks though. It is just not for me or something I would enjoy enough to put the work in.

http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

When you’re posting replies that approach 400-500 words, you’re 95% of the way there. Just add a bit of supporting links from BR or Fangraphs and you’re there.

ZZ

lol. My posts can get long at times. I do appreciate you asking, but it is just not something I can see myself doing. At least for now.

http://twitter.com/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

All of this.

stuart

man reaqlly how bad is granderson. his success with RISP is horrible.

does he have a clue? I do not think so… Some real clutch hitting today….

joba loves his slider…

jorge looks like bench behind the plate, he cannot even hit second base with a throw..

FIPster Doofus

Granderson is .216/.326/.365 with RISP and .219/.324/.469 with two outs and RISP. That’s bad, but it isn’t exactly the worst I’ve ever seen. Last season, for instance, Cano was .207/.242/.332 and .204/.250/.327 in those situations. Now he’s an MVP candidate.

http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

..and RISP numbers vary so much from ear to year it’s hard to take them seriously, especially when you parse them into ‘two outs’ and ‘1 out, man on 3rd’ crap. The samples get so small they’re meaningless.

FIPster Doofus

Agreed. Another guy who’s struggled with RISP this year is Posada, yet he’s had quite a bit of success in those situations throughout his career.

http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

When you get into samples that small, I’d love to see the batter vs pitcher match ups with results (BR has it). Chances are its a handful of pitchers who he’s always had trouble with and/or just hitting in some bad luck.

mike c

granderson needs to sit a day and work on his stance at the plate, he had it going there for a minute, but his twitchy hands and feet are back … put kearns in LF and gardner in CF, and put grandyman in a room with klong for a day

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

I was at the game this afternoon and saw a #22 Cano jersey. I normally hate Yankee jerseys with names on them, but that was kinda cool.

Kiersten

I have one :)

(also has the name on it though)

http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

I have a 22 Cano t-shirt jersey.

pat

Word, me too. It’s a bage of honor. I was with His Laziness since square one.

http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

Word again. Fuckin’ Clemens.

Kiersten

22 is also my favorite number, so I prefer it to my 24 Cano t-shirt.

FIPster Doofus

Only 156 for me on the Sporcle quiz. It’s hard to believe who some of the all-star starting pitchers were during the previous decade.

Operation Venditte

166 for me but yeah Kenny Rogers and Esteban Loaiza started all star games

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

In 2003, Esteban Loaiza was third in the AL and fourth in baseball in both bWAR and fWAR

Brad Toughy

All it really takes is getting the timing right on a 2-3 month hot streak.

Mike M

168 out of 188 but the pitchers killed me too. Dan Haren? Really?

Andrew

A frustrating game to be at thanks to heat + tons of stalled rallies. Still though, much happier with the way the team has played since Wednesday. Hopefully they get the same # of baserunners in Texas but actually pick up some hits with men on base.

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

184 on the sporcle quiz. Nice

Accent Shallow

How did Hughes look today? The line isn’t bad, and all the damage came in the first two innings.

http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

Awful beginning, threw about 50+ pitches the first two innings and was painful to watch. After that, settled in beautifully and pitched a gem. Overall a good start, deserved to win.

Jose the Satirist

Lester deserved to win too.

http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

Deserved it more, Lester pitched better. I’m just saying Hughes pitched well enough to win most of the time. I’ll take 6 IP 2 ER anytime.

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

Considering where he was after 2 innings, 6IP 2ER is fantastic

Nikhil R.

174 on the sporcle quiz. If I remembered Renteria it would have been 3 more, dammit.

http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

I got 175 and missed Sammy Sosa. I’m not sure if that says more about me or more about Sosa. For a guy with a Hall of Fame resume who was loved for a long time he’s been invisible (not talking about his new skin color) for the most part since retiring.

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

I got Shea Hillenbrand and Mark Loretta and missed Gary Sheffield and Torii Hunter (I kept thinking “who the heck was in the Twins outfield in 2002?)

Kiersten

For the life of me I couldn’t figure out who would start at SS from the Orioles in 2001. I kept thinking how neither Jeter nor A-Rod nor Garciaparra ever played for them…

http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

I forgot that too. I was like “was Tejada there yet????” Ooooooops… :X

Fredi Gonzalez is all but the next Braves manager as it is, but it’s hard to see Hillman, Hinch or Trembley getting offers elsewhere. Of that list, I think only Wakamatsu gets another shot somewhere. He turned the team around last year before making the young manager mistake of taking on an legend (Griffey) AND having a bad year, either of which could get you fired. But he seems like a smart guy with a bit of a different approach, I could see a losing team bringing him in.

That GM (whose name I will not even attempt to spell) hasn’t made many friends this year, and now he’s jettisoning a talented ally. There are rumblings in the scouting/development depts as well. I bet he’s next, and won’t be rehired anywhere else.

http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

Really? Aside from the maybe possibly shady stuff with the Lee deal, which we all have kind of a biased opinion of probably, I’ve heard nothing but good about him.

This is what I was referring to. Cameron and Onley are two people who I trust, and both of their reactions/reports reflect badly on GM Jack IMO.

http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

Gotcha. Hmmm, I haven’t heard anything negative at all about Jack Z. until pretty much today (and the whole Lee thing, again), so that’s interesting.

http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

Isn’t AJ Hinch very, very young? And I don’t think his firing was considered crazy justified. If he’s interested, he might go somewhere else.

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

AJ Hinch is five weeks older than Derek Jeter

Jose the Satirist

I don’t believe sporcle scores on the internet. So I won’t bore you with mine. That was a good one, thanks for linking it.

http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

I suppose there’s a larger point to be made here, about spending real money on non-elite older players. I’ll bet you can find columns last winter complaining that the Yankees should have kept Matsui and Johnny Damon, because by golly they were still pretty good hitters and what’s a few more million dollars to the Yankees, anyway?

It was never about the money. It was about getting younger and (perhaps) better. Granted, Damon’s and Matsui’s replacements — Curtis Granderson and Nick Johnson — haven’t exactly hit their projections, and the Yankees might have won about as many games if they had kept the older guys. But the get-younger impulse will serve the organization well in coming years.

“Because Sabathia is clearly not the pitcher the Yankees thought they were getting when they signed him for $161 million.”

Rob “I used to get Bill James his Bagels” Neyer

VO

My first try I got 117. Yikes

http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

Perhaps my favorite conversation came with a 20-year-old named Evan (I think – if I’m getting that mixed up, sorry!). We covered nearly every topic you could think of, and his curiosity and intelligence were both impressive, but one comment in particular he made stuck with me – he started getting into our brand of analysis through Fire Joe Morgan, a site that was often tremendously hilarious and brutally vicious at the same time. After a while of reading hostile take-downs of various scribes, he began to realize that the end goal of all of this shouldn’t be angry rants, but humble attempts at education.

This wasn’t a new idea, but for whatever reason, it made more of an impact than before. As I discussed with several friends later, I have written enough things that I regret publishing, even if they were correct, true, or deserved. I don’t regret having an opinion, but I want my opinions to contain a healthy portion of respect. They haven’t always. They hopefully will more often in the future.

This just needed to be repeated. I’ve never been the biggest fan of FJM-style posts, I don’t think they accomplish anything worthwhile.

poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

Fire Joe Morgan wasn’t meant to educate people. It’s meant to be funny, as are posts in their style. And you know what-they’re hilarious.

candyforstalin

i’ve been reading the archives of fire joe morgan for the last half hour and i have to say that i couldn’t disagree more. as a former south american president used to put it, i can lose a friend but i don’t lose a good joke.

Accent Shallow

FJM-style takedowns tend to be subpar when done by anyone other than those guys, since most people aren’t nearly as funny (or as bright, but so it goes). Besides, that was their shtick, so they could get away with condescension. Coming from just about anyone else, it’s incredibly obnoxious.

a little excerpt:I know there are those who will accuse me of exaggeration when I say this, but, until baseball appeared, humans were a sad and benighted lot, lost in the labyrinth of matter, dimly and achingly aware of something incandescently beautiful and unattainable, something infinitely desirable shining up above in the empyrean of the ideas; but, throughout most of the history of the race, no culture was able to produce more than a shadowy sketch of whatever glorious mystery prompted those nameless longings.

Johan Iz My Brohan

Montero with the only two hits for SWB so far.

vin

Got 183/188.

Missed: Sheffield, Hillenbrand, Milton Bradley, Mark Loretta.

Got Screwed on: Mark Buehrle.

I play all the mlb quizzes on sporcle, and I can NEVER spell Buerhle’s name right. If he joined the yanks, then I would have to learn… kind of like Mientkiewicz. Or like when I wrote a report on Czechoslovakia when I was a kid.

So I had to go after the second inning I think, so I missed almost all of the game, except I saw the inning with bases loaded nobody out. Fun times ;_;

http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

Oh and is our season over yet?

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

Yup. You know who would have gotten a hit off Lester with the bases loaded? Melky Cabrera. FIRE CASHMAn!!1

poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

This game sucked and I nominate it as the new Worst Loss of the Year, but the series as a whole worked out very well for the Yankees. We’ve essentially locked up a playoff berth.

Yeah, that’s right, I’m saying it.

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

I feel like “worst loss of the year” has to be a game in which the Yankees actually had a lead at some point. This was annoying, but not really gut-wrenching.

poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

That bases loaded nobobdy out seventh inning was gut-wrenching. With the Thames HR-that-wasn’t.

http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

That one game against the Indians

Baaaaarrrrfffff

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

Yea, that’s the one I think of when I think “worst loss of 2010″. Part of that is expectations, too. The Indians suck, and Jon Lester and Daniel Bard don’t.

http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

Pretty much this. After the third or so, I only saw the bottom of the seventh inning today (no, really. Barftacular). It sucked big time, and I think other things sucked big time judging on what I’ve heard about today’s game, but I didn’t expect to win this game with the matchup.

http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

I’m pretty sure the Yankees have had about a dozen worst losses of the year already. It’s almost as if people overreact, or something.

http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

The Yankees actually have 42 “worst losses ever” this year (did I count right?).

Kiersten

147. My knowledge of NL players from the beginning of the decade, not so good.

I GOT ALL OF THEM. Honestly, I’ve taken that test at least 14 times, and did it everyday for the last two weeks of the school year during study hall. It’s the first time I’ve gotten them all.

YankeesJunkie

I did pretty awful on that Sporcle quiz I think I was close around 125-140.

On the note of the game it was nice to see Hughes pitch well for a second consecutive game and see him maybe get past his tired arm period.

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

How come no one is talking about Jeter tying Mel Ott on the all-time hit list?

YankeesJunkie

Obviously Jeter tying Mel Ott is a big deal as Jeter is about to be the most prolific hitter in the history of NY baseball. However, I don’t think that most people care about this record. It is surprising though that no NY hitter has ever had 3000 hits.

poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

Those NY hitters were too busy just hitting the living shit out of the ball.

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

It is surprising though that no NY hitter has ever had 3000 hits.

Is it really? Only 13 players have ever accumulated 3000 hits in one uniform, and they are spread across 12 teams (Detroit is the only team with two)

http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

I’m waiting for him to pass Zack Wheat, personally.

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

Pfft..Zack Wheat was clearly a cheater. His best seasons came at 36 and 37!

That’s obviously a faulty quiz, I tried typing in “douchehole” and it wouldn’t accept it.

http://www.twitter.com/jordan_smed JGS

22. After “Boston-born hero living the dream of playing for the team that developed him” didn’t make all 25 show up, I had to actually remember them. I kept trying Todd Walker, but he was only on the 03 team that I constantly mix up with the 04 team. douchebags

http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

(DOTF spoiler alert!!!)

Jesus Montero just hit a walk-off HR.

poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

TEH LEGEND GROWS!!!!

(lowercase)

futureman

And the Lord saw the pitch, and it was gone.

YankeesJunkie

My pants just got wet.

poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

Spill water?

I feel for you.

/Intentionally oblique’d

http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

I was really amazed at how people thought I wasn’t trying to be dirty with that “Pettitte in the #2 hole” comment from last night.