That way smart devs, such as ND, can crank back to 720p and 30fps and take a huge crap graphically over those 1080p 60fps games.

The bad thing is, you're right...or they will end up scaling it back even further like games now to 600p, etc. I wish they would make it a requirement that the games run at 1080p @ 60fps...if they scale stuff back it will have the same feeling to me like buying a Blu-ray and not having the movie run in 1080p...they need to set a boundary...

I completely agree. I'm sure game companies such as Crytek, Epic, EA, etc have had there say of what they want to see in next gen consoles from Sony and MS. The director of technology at Square recently teased that we can expect to see the Agni's Philosophy running on consoles at E3. I'll be a very happy man, if they'll be able to run that demo in real time.

The bad thing is, you're right...or they will end up scaling it back even further like games now to 600p, etc. I wish they would make it a requirement that the games run at 1080p @ 60fps...if they scale stuff back it will have the same feeling to me like buying a Blu-ray and not having the movie run in 1080p...they need to set a boundary...

the devs working on next gen projects say that atleast MS is making it mandatory for 1080p. That being said, its not surprising that launch title will be 1080p for the marketing and near the end of the lifecycle they drop to 720p

the devs working on next gen projects say that atleast MS is making it mandatory for 1080p. That being said, its not surprising that launch title will be 1080p for the marketing and near the end of the lifecycle they drop to 720p

I really hope that they will not enforce it heavily.
Things like dynamic framebuffer and multiresolution rendering will be commonplace.

I really hope that they will not enforce it heavily.
Things like dynamic framebuffer and multiresolution rendering will be commonplace.

I actually hope they do enforce it. This has been one of the longest console generations ever, and I think people are expecting (and hoping) a significant jump in power and capability. For next gen consoles to come out and still be at 720p, wouldn't feel like much of a leap in tech. DX11 visuals will be awesome for the next gen, but I'm glad to hear rumors that MS is making 1080p mandatory or that Sony is looking into 4k gaming.

I think you're underestimating Kinect 2, rumors say MS will pack it in with the console, it means that 100% of xbox 720 would have Kinect, versus 15-20% of 360 users that have Kinect. Because it will be so ubiquitous, I think it will be implemented much more then it has this gen, I read a rumor that all MS first party games will have some kind of Kinect functionality.

1) The numbers dont make sense. First and second party games account for less than 5% of all games made on any platform, and account for less than 10% of all sales on the platform. There is almost no likely-hood that MS will have such a costly add on on every console if developers are unlikely to harness it at every turn.

2) The financials dont make sense. If you have the kinect on every console, price will go up, you kill price point flexibility going forward and if some or none of the costs are passed onto the consumer the company opens itself up to bigger than expected losses.
Why would MS also kill an add on market that they have made the most of this generation? Why tie up capital on a product that developers wont fully harness at every turn or one that the bigger part of console owners have no interest in?

3) Not every gamer cares about the Kinect, at a 15-20% sale volume in relation to all console sales, it is something of a niche product that doesnt justify being placed on every console.

I am not saying that it is something that will definitely not happen, but it just doesnt make sense for MS to do on so many levels.

As for the RAM, i was going with what i have seen being reported widely. I honestly hope that both consoles are on par. On the article you posted, they are hoping that both consoles have 8GB RAM, not saying that both consoles will have it.

Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw

Just for the sake of us gamers, I hope BOTH consoles have a great CPU/GPU combination with 8GB of RAM! I would hate to see one console be underpowered to the point that all 3rd party games get designed with the lower specs in mind to keep the porting easy...

that is what has me worried......mynd said it on another topic that Sony has to have a console that is on par of for anything to keep MS honest, and that is something that i agreed with to the fullest

I am more interested which cooling system will the next Playstation have. If the console will have a powerful GPU a good cooling system will be required. I doubt it will be a liquid cooling system though as its too expensive. Maybe a new type ?

I am more interested which cooling system will the next Playstation have. If the console will have a powerful GPU a good cooling system will be required. I doubt it will be a liquid cooling system though as its too expensive. Maybe a new type ?

at the cost of your SOUL!!

laptops don't need any advanced cooling, i doubt we'll see any advancement with cooling as its not that big a deal. copper plates currently used are more than sufficient if you design your console correctly.

I am more interested which cooling system will the next Playstation have. If the console will have a powerful GPU a good cooling system will be required. I doubt it will be a liquid cooling system though as its too expensive. Maybe a new type ?

The RSX in ps3 had a 200w TDP afaik when it first released. It was no slouch but sony manages to cool it with traditional cooling options. This time we'll probably get 130W GPU (AMD HD 8850 maybe) so if anything, it should be easier to cool than a ps3

The RSX in ps3 had a 200w TDP afaik when it first released. It was no slouch but sony manages to cool it with traditional cooling options. This time we'll probably get 130W GPU (AMD HD 8850 maybe) so if anything, it should be easier to cool than a ps3

I think thats what I want the most, powerful, silent & cool with minimum chance of over heating even at full power

laptops don't need any advanced cooling, i doubt we'll see any advancement with cooling as its not that big a deal. copper plates currently used are more than sufficient if you design your console correctly.

Originally Posted by itachi73378

The RSX in ps3 had a 200w TDP afaik when it first released. It was no slouch but sony manages to cool it with traditional cooling options. This time we'll probably get 130W GPU (AMD HD 8850 maybe) so if anything, it should be easier to cool than a ps3

Originally Posted by TGO

I think thats what I want the most, powerful, silent & cool with minimum chance of over heating even at full power

Sent via Codec

You guys do realize every BC ps3 is destined to fail/ylod much more so than later revisions, right?

You guys do realize every BC ps3 is destined to fail/ylod much more so than later revisions, right?

Some people still have their launch models working and generally the failed units worked for multiple years before failing so I say that the cooling worked. We can't say if it was the cooling or just faulty component design though

I actually hope they do enforce it. This has been one of the longest console generations ever, and I think people are expecting (and hoping) a significant jump in power and capability. For next gen consoles to come out and still be at 720p, wouldn't feel like much of a leap in tech. DX11 visuals will be awesome for the next gen, but I'm glad to hear rumors that MS is making 1080p mandatory or that Sony is looking into 4k gaming.

lets be real here, sony are NOT looking into 4k gaming, they are looking to create a bit of hype. the market is almost non existant from a consumer perspective in the console market, devs won't produce 4k games, and they currently struggle to run on high end pc rigs above 25fps on high settings.

its just the opposite of FUD imo.

but here it is - the first prediction of flamewars mk8 (or whatever gen this is). 4k is not necessary

Originally Posted by acryllicaltair

1) The numbers dont make sense. First and second party games account for less than 5% of all games made on any platform, and account for less than 10% of all sales on the platform. There is almost no likely-hood that MS will have such a costly add on on every console if developers are unlikely to harness it at every turn.

2) The financials dont make sense. If you have the kinect on every console, price will go up, you kill price point flexibility going forward and if some or none of the costs are passed onto the consumer the company opens itself up to bigger than expected losses.
Why would MS also kill an add on market that they have made the most of this generation? Why tie up capital on a product that developers wont fully harness at every turn or one that the bigger part of console owners have no interest in?

3) Not every gamer cares about the Kinect, at a 15-20% sale volume in relation to all console sales, it is something of a niche product that doesnt justify being placed on every console.

I am not saying that it is something that will definitely not happen, but it just doesnt make sense for MS to do on so many levels.

As for the RAM, i was going with what i have seen being reported widely. I honestly hope that both consoles are on par. On the article you posted, they are hoping that both consoles have 8GB RAM, not saying that both consoles will have it.

that is what has me worried......mynd said it on another topic that Sony has to have a console that is on par of for anything to keep MS honest, and that is something that i agreed with to the fullest

i agree, but MS do have the ability to eat up a bigger loss per unit than sony this time around imo. combined with the rumoured 'financing' / per month payment for an otherwise expensive console (whose high price may well be ignored by gamers because of the length of this generation) and you *might* have a situation where MS are willing to bundle the hardware. this might also backup some of the rumours about RAM disparity in MS' favour - kinect would be eating up a good chunk of the 720s memory. its also a very good selling point from a media perspective - a differentiator between hardware which, from what i've heard, is going to be quite similar.

just a thought.

Originally Posted by Cybertox

I am more interested which cooling system will the next Playstation have. If the console will have a powerful GPU a good cooling system will be required. I doubt it will be a liquid cooling system though as its too expensive. Maybe a new type ?

from what i've heard they are *apparently* going for customised mobile solutions - i'm no techy, but something to do with lowering clock speeds and keeping heat and power consumption down. which makes sense if you believe that sony will provide *some* 4k capability, even as a badge of honour. if a power hungry and hot 7970 only just hits that rez, then some clever solution will need to be found to get anywhere near the performance.

* but like i said, i'm no techy and these rumours are just that..... rumours

lets be real here, sony are NOT looking into 4k gaming, they are looking to create a bit of hype. the market is almost non existant from a consumer perspective in the console market, devs won't produce 4k games, and they currently struggle to run on high end pc rigs above 25fps on high settings.

its just the opposite of FUD imo.

but here it is - the first prediction of flamewars mk8 (or whatever gen this is). 4k is not necessary

Why wouldn't Sony look into 4K gaming? They've announced it and are producing TVs for it. This reminds me of the PS3 which did support HDMI 1.3 when there where no TVs that even had a HDMI 1.3 port yet.

Now I definitely believe that Sony will not enforce it and maybe only 1% of games will support it. Like maybe a few PSN games such as a new super stardust and such.

Some people still have their launch models working and generally the failed units worked for multiple years before failing so I say that the cooling worked. We can't say if it was the cooling or just faulty component design though

I could put the same components into a small form factor pc case with a better cooling solution that would stand the test of time. If I can do that on my own, there is no reason why a company like sony/ms cannot.

And for the record my 2nd (replacement from ms for my original) 360 took five years to RROD.

I could put the same components into a small form factor pc case with a better cooling solution that would stand the test of time. If I can do that on my own, there is no reason why a company like sony/ms cannot.

And for the record my 2nd (replacement from ms for my original) 360 took five years to RROD.

because of cost, assembly time, spacial constraints, there can be multiple reasons but one thing is for sure; both MS and sony have learned there lessons from the hardware failures this gen

i agree, but MS do have the ability to eat up a bigger loss per unit than sony this time around imo. combined with the rumoured 'financing' / per month payment for an otherwise expensive console (whose high price may well be ignored by gamers because of the length of this generation) and you *might* have a situation where MS are willing to bundle the hardware. this might also backup some of the rumours about RAM disparity in MS' favour - kinect would be eating up a good chunk of the 720s memory. its also a very good selling point from a media perspective - a differentiator between hardware which, from what i've heard, is going to be quite similar.

just a thought.

the overall percentile of RAM that will be consumed by Kinect is going to be much lower than what is consumed at this point in time especially if you are looking at something in the range of 4GB to 8GB RAM. if you were to get it running at 350 -450MB there is still a lot to go around for game development.

Problem is that most devs wont maximize its potential, even first and second party devs unless they are making kinect only titles. For that reason you are likely to see games have some modes that offer kinect functionality rather than its use spanning the entire title.

Third party devs are also not going to bother if the consoles are closely matched.....it would mean extra coding, more money and fewer resources on one platform. And if correct that MS is going with a weaker GPU and stronger CPU, something will be lost in either physics or graphics if the 720 is the primary console.

Doesnt make sense to have it on all units when its such a niche product

I could put the same components into a small form factor pc case with a better cooling solution that would stand the test of time. If I can do that on my own, there is no reason why a company like sony/ms cannot.

And for the record my 2nd (replacement from ms for my original) 360 took five years to RROD.

no?
but its as itachi said. price. of all the things you put in your console (to bring to market), the heat dispersion method only needs to pass a sufficient level of cooling, does it not?
why increase cost here when you can use that somewhere else? more-so, when a slimmer, cooler, more efficient model is part of the products plan?

out of genuine curiosity, how would you cool a launch PS3? you cannot decrease price or change the shape...only your method of cooling

I can't remember if I asked this question before but it's for the tech guys...

Would it be possible for MS or Sony to have some kind of ram slot in their consoles similar to the N64 and their ram expander?

Its not impossible, but unlikely.
An upgradable console segments the user base, you will have games with labels saying it only runs with extra ram. This will also mean Sony and MS need to make their own proprietary RAM and sell it at a higher price than regular RAM. This again will increase the production costs.
I'm not sure but would it not also be another security vulnerable spot aswell?

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