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Topic: According to contract table (Read 391 times)

When this card is in your Ring area, once during each of your turns, as a Mid-match Action, you may name 1 non-unique non-Superstar-specific card and then all copies of this card in all Ring areas are considered to also have that title until the start of your next turn.

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Is the 'naming' an ace? This was debated in both Discord channels with different answers.

-A card is considered to have an Activated Card Effect (ACE) if (a) it is in your Ring area AND (b) you have to do something (like discard a card) (c) to generate an effect.

So (a) according is in my list, (b) as amid match action I name 1, (C) the card is now considered that title

I found an old, poorly formatted Vengence FAQ online that has an ACE list containing this card in it. Naming a card would be the activation cost. The card having "and then" distinguishes a cost and effect for the ACE.

I don’t like posting in the rules forum to give an answer, but I wanted to show why I argued “no” on Discord.

Part three from the FAQ under Activated Card Effect specifically states:

“All ACEs have a specific cost to use that effect, ranging from discarding a card, skipping a Draw Segment, or removing cards. If there is no cost for a card effect that occurs while it is in the Ring, it is not an ACE. ”

But the action here to activate is saying the name of a card...cost I think has a negative connotation where it makes you think it has to be something like discarding.

I think of it this way, if you don't name a card, nothing happens with this card. It does nothing for you when you play it as the, so to activate the effect, you must name a card. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I also thought that anything that had that "as a midmatch action" text was an ACE

I'm inclined to agree with Scotty here. Costs have to be game actions; saying words, jumping up and down, or humming the Demolition intro song aren't game actions, they're just things that you do.

I'd also like to jump in on this and say that's not true, and not trying to change subject or be disrespectful, but speaking definitely is an action within the game. When you play something like Precision Haymaker, Vice Lock, etc you have to name something for its effect. If spoken words are not a part of the game, then how do you use those effects?

I get what your argument against it being an ACE is, I just don't agree as per the omnifaq a) it is in your ring area to b) perform an action to c) activate an effect from the card

Please hold further discussion while Daeva & I research and consult on this. Thanks.

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I'm inclined to agree with Scotty here. Costs have to be game actions; saying words, jumping up and down, or humming the Demolition intro song aren't game actions, they're just things that you do.

I'd also like to jump in on this and say that's not true, and not trying to change subject or be disrespectful, but speaking definitely is an action within the game. When you play something like Precision Haymaker, Vice Lock, etc you have to name something for its effect. If spoken words are not a part of the game, then how do you use those effects?

I don't take your question as disrespectful. Please feel free to ask questions; that's what the Rules Forum is for.

Those effects work fine without spoken words being game actions; the spoken word defines the magnitude of the game action. The game action on Precision Haymaker is drawing cards and reducing Haymaker's Fortitude; both of those actions' magnitudes are defined by the chosen word, but that doesn't make choosing a word a game action.

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I get what your argument against it being an ACE is, I just don't agree as per the omnifaq a) it is in your ring area to b) perform an action to c) activate an effect from the card

B is where this all breaks down. Naming a card isn't a cost. It doesn't cost you anything to name a card. Contract Table should not have been formatted with the "and then" templating that was used on ACEs.

And to answer the previous questions: I can definitively say that Contract Table is not an ACE (since that's my job in Raw Deal and all). Rules discussions are never settled by voting. Since it's not an ACE, an ACE reversal won't tag it, and you would need something that reverses an effect that applies a title to a card. No such reversal exists.

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This is where the 'old wording template' issues come in, yeah. There's absolutely no further use for ACEs 'as a Mid-match action' in the game. It was a failed attempt, so they abandoned it in favor of Activated Card Effects.

It was phased out when possible in reprints, but there is no Survivor Series version of Contract Table, so we make do with the old wording.

As Daeva notes, not an ACE, there is no way to reverse the in-ring effect.

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"Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world." - Bill Bullard