Where Does This Leave Berbatov?

May 29, 2011

I have made no secret of my admiration for Dimitar Berbatov in his three seasons at the club. He’s a classy player who is a joy to watch on the ball. After spending the first two seasons not scoring as many goals as a £30m striker should, he was awarded with the Premier League golden boot this season and, according to Opta, scored more winning goals than any player in the league.

Whilst Wayne Rooney, the player who carried us the season before, was handing in a transfer request and not scoring, Berbatov was the player pushing us on, along with Nani. At the end of January, Berbatov had scored more hattricks for United than Rooney had goals. Without his contribution, we would not have lifted than 19th title last weekend.

Over the last few months of the season, Berba lost his place in the starting line-up to Chicharito. Rooney turned his season around and our new Mexican striker scored too regularly to leave out. Still, come the end of the season, after lifting the trophy, the Bulgarian spoke exactly like you would like a United player to.

“I will go nowhere,” he said. “Now I am part of United’s 19th title and I want to be part of the 20th, that’s my plan. I am the happiest man in the team because I’m a champion and top goalscorer in the league. To win 19 titles is a fantastic achievement.”

Ruud van Nistelrooy and Carlos Tevez wouldn’t sit on our bench, but here we have a player, the top scorer in the league no less, who claims he is the happiest man in the team, despite losing his place in the first XI, because United have won the league and he has contributed to that.

Ahead of last night’s Champions League final, we all knew that if Ferguson was going to play two strikers from the start, Berbatov wasn’t going to be one of them. He would start on the bench and the question was whether Michael Owen would join him or not. There won’t have been any United fans who had even considered that Berba would not make the bench.

I can’t imagine his shock and devastation upon learning that, if United were to win the European Cup, he would not be picking up a medal. He has played almost three times as many games as Owen this season, massively contributing to our 19th title, yet the manager showed no appreciation of that last night. My loyalty will always be with the manager over any player, including Giggs, Scholes or anyone else. However, I can’t ignore how cruel Ferguson was last night and how disrespectful he was towards a player who helped him knock Liverpool off their perch.

Some fans have criticised Berbatov for not joining the likes of John O’Shea in the stands to watch the game. I partially agree with this. You like to see the players putting on a United front and supporting each other, regardless of what has happened to them. However, I can’t entirely agree with that stance in this situation. We can’t possibly imagine how Berba felt when the manager told him he wouldn’t be on the bench and with next to no time to adjust to this shock, it’s not a massive surprise he didn’t come out of the dressing room.

“Some players even cry now in the dressing room – Bryan Robson never used to cry,” Ferguson said earlier this season. Was Berbatov sat in the dressing room crying, even just initially? I wouldn’t bet again it. This was probably his last opportunity to play in European Cup final and his manager didn’t even fancy him enough to put him on the bench.

After the game, the manager confessed that it caused him “heartache” to leave Berba out but insisted the player hadn’t stormed off, but was in the dressing room.

“For Berbatov it was a difficult decision,” said Ferguson. “Picking my team I found easy, but picking my subs I found very difficult. I tended to overload the midfield positions because I thought that was the position that was most important. I gambled with just one defender to allow me to get as many options in midfield and wide positions. It was a choice between Michael Owen and Dimitar Berbatov and if you are looking for someone to nick a goal in the last few minutes you want Owen’s experience.”

Now, had Owen been brought on for the final ten minutes, with United 3-1 down and in desperate need of a goal, I still wouldn’t agree with the manager’s decision, but would have to respect it. The fact that Owen didn’t get brought on, despite United only making two substitutions, beggars belief. What was the point? Why cause our top scorer so much hurt and disappointment for the sake of Owen being an unused sub?

Berba did not return with the team to Manchester today, so we’ll learn more about his future tomorrow when the players parade the league trophy. You imagine that if he hasn’t made his own way back up to Manchester by then, there’s a very strong possibility he is off. Given that he is 30 and in the last year of his contract, we wouldn’t be able recoup a great deal on the £30m we spent on him, even as the league’s top scorer, but now a club could get him for next to nothing.

I’d love for him to stay at the club because he’s an incredibly talented player and he has a fantastic attitude. He had the opportunity to double his money at City, but he didn’t even meet with them, knowing that a meeting alone would put pressure on United to offer him more money. He wants to play for this football club, he wants to play his part in our success, and when the game is inundated with mercenaries, it’s refreshing to see someone whose sole motivation isn’t money.

However, I wouldn’t begrudge him wanting to leave now. The manager has let him know exactly how little he values him, so what choice does he have? Can he really play for a club where he doesn’t even get in the squad for a final when he’s the club and league’s top scorer?

With money tight and more pressing replacements needed, it’s probably reasonable to assume that if Berbatov leaves, Ferguson will use Danny Welbeck as his replacement. Is that the kind of move other top clubs around Europe would make?

Desperately disappointed for Berbatov but I’m more concerned about the consequences this may have for the club. Rooney and Chicharito have been more or less injury free this season, luckily, but we have no guarantees of that next season, and then what?

This is an incredibly and confusing frustrating situation. I can’t help but think Berba has to leave now, as much it pains me to say it. But, as always, in the manager we trust.

592 Comments

@Zibbie
He may have 30+ goals but whats the use when you don't have trophies to show.What I meant was he could have easily won another european trophy with united.More than we are missing him he is the one who is missing us more.
But I am happy with our current squad .2 or 3 quality players needed and then with our promising youth players we could rule the europe.

Ash - hargreaves was injury prone before he came to united, in his first season he was getting injured 3 times a season;. He missed agust and september, managed to stay fit from october to december, returned in late jan and was picking up little knocks, he managed to stay fit in periods in the final 2 months but hargreaves was never a reliable asset, so I do not know why you are still going on saying hargreaves could have. It is like saying we could have done with keane.

Again fletcher and carrick, carrick is a better overall player, fletcher is an effective player, but it still does not mean fletcher is better than carrick

Looks like Swansea are in the PL. Oh The long Trips to Wales Will be a Nightmare for the fans.

Repeating what i said in the other thread....

Theory put foward by my local crack dealer, Its difficult to deny the accuracy + validity of the statement:

“Bebe’s the modern day Charlie & the chocolate factory mixed with Alan Sugar story. He found a wrapper that had a Golden Ticket to Old Trafford, Begged to stay, Became one of the most competent Ball Boy’s in training and Won the Boss over With His displays to promote him to Event Organiser of all Party Celebrations. Despite losing focus during celebrations & being under the influence for Majority of the Fiscal year, David Gill Has Offered Him a Apprenticeship & has taken him under his wing In hope of Turning Bebe Into The next Chief Executive of Manchester United FC.”

Everything we do is to satisfy Rooney, and why is that?? Valencia is a fan and team favourite bcos he 'supposedly' brings the best out of Rooney. are some fans that blind not to see Young's tremendous upsides over Valencia?? smarter, audacious, leader, set-piece specialist, creative... Does that mean i dont support our players? Its the fact!! Young will be a welcomed addition. De Rossi next i hope.

Fitb
If hargo was not injury prone he could have done a better job than carrick.And I can;t understand on what basis are you saying carrick is better overall player than fletch.
Fletch bar this season in last 3 season has been better player than carrick.Carrick is no longer the same player he was 3 seasons ago.Its no shame accepting that.I loved carrick and to be frank he was the player I admired most when we won the double in 08 so dont think I hate carrick.My point is carrick has now become a squad player for us.I don't want him to leave as we need someone with experience but if you believe he should still be our main central midfield player for coming season then you should think again.

@fergie is the boss. If there was anything particularly coherent or intelligent about your garbled response it might be worth responding to. But clearly you're an illiterate idiot who can barely muster the requisite IQ to spell 'fuck'. Go back to sleep.

You do make me laugh though, you needed to post more words to make a point longer than scott does when he makes a new topic. You were just found out has the complete TWAT that you are, you know more than the boss almost, fergie answers to no one you trolling CUNT

Much as I love Berba and now dislike Wazza for his antics, the truth remains that on the pitch Berba didn't deliver the goods when the gaffer needed it the most. Yes he's been brilliant in the league, but the City semi-final was the game that he should've risen to the occasion. It was a knock-out game and as a United striker called upon to do the needful, he should've showed up. What that eventually translated into was us having to remove that banner after so many years. What I'd really love is for Berba to stay and win that starting spot for next season's CL final.

"Central midfield is where It was lost. If you think Giggs and Carrick played against Barcelona in 2009, why did we all think, it would work this time? I was banking on them not being as good, as two years ago, but I got that horribly wrong."

This is why it still hurts, we were promised better this time and I still think we could have done better. Barcelona are much better this season but they have been beaten a few times and we should have managed more than one shot on target.

Sometimes Carrick gets too much critisism and sometimes too much praise but I'll have to defend him for saturday. He was surrounded by the top three in the fifa world player of the year awards! We were losing the midfled battle and he put Park in there in the second half. Now, Park is a decent player but why did he put Anderson, Scholes and Fletcher on the bench ahead of Berbatov if he wasn't going to use them?? He must have known the midfield would get swamped, it was so familiar from Rome. Carrick is meant to spread the ball around as well as protect the defence but got no help - Busquets is there for Xavi, Gattuso was there for Pirlo but who was there for Carrick? Wingers.

But Madrid packed the midfield with good players and got overran so who knows? Still a bit disappointed tho.

I've said it many times since Saturday, and I'll say it again- Carrick was our only midfielder to do himself any justice. The guys around him, particularly Giggsy, were having a mare. Considering he had Xavi, Iniesta and Messi swarming triangles around him, he did the best he could. Tackles, interceptions and started most of our moves. Him being hooked for Scholesy was a strange decision.

As for berba, people have varying opinions. But in terms of tactics, and who's more likely to get a goal, Owen was the correct choice on the bench (just bemusing he never got on).

I wouldn't blame Berba for wanting to move on....and by the same token, I wouldn't blame SAF for wanting to sell him. IMO, as talented as he is, he comes up short in terms of being a Utd player. And it doesn't make sense having him as a back up striker when you consider his wages (those wages could be spent on a MIDFIELDER who'll be a first teamer next year)

Rafael----Rio-------Vida---------Evra (step ya game up mate and you'll be alright)

--------------Fletcher-------------------

Nani-----Sneijder/Modric-----Ando

-------Rooney---THE BERB!1------

Berba is a better player than Hernandez. He's shown that he is capable of scoring lotsof (important) goals by having scored most game winning goals in the PL. Hernandez isn't capable of holding the ball (as was shown last Saturday), he's a prolific goal scorer but in terms of technique and vision inferior to the Berb.

Ando needs more playing time. Really, you can't expect this lad to hop of the bench from time to time and always perform. Almost everytime he's been starting this season he was briljant.

Corea ... "Fergie was lost and defeated." I wouldn't say it quite that way. "Defeated" has some ugly connotations. But in essence, you're right. I would have said that sometime between Barca's 2nd and 3rd goals (certainly, after the third) he understood there was nothing he could do to turn the match around. In case of exhaustion, injury or poor execution, he had planned to restock the midfield, to the extent that he could have only one sub striker. He had thought the match would be tight, which would raise the prospect of needing a late goal, and had therefore decided to put Owen on the bench instead of The Berb. But the one thing he didn't plan for was that we would simply be outplayed. And when it became apparent that was happening, what was the point of bringing on more subs?

I am desperately disappointed that we denied ourselves the opportunity to try something different, by bringing on The Berb.

That said, it is still difficult to fault SAF's decisions. He must have been extremely confident. And let's face it, if the match had been close late on -- not just on the scoreboard, but in general play -- so that a pair of fresh pair of legs, and an experienced poacher like Owen, could make a difference, and if those options hadn't been available because The Berb was on the bench, he'd have looked pretty silly.

There's also a lot of merit to the argument that a late tactical change, involving Scholes, Nani and The Berb, wouldn't have worked anyway. We'll never know, but given the way the match went, it would certainly have been a last, desperate roll of the dice.

@ RedManWalking . If you're laughing at an average of one European triumph per decade against Europe's elite, with the squad Fergie's had, you have severe mental problems. Especially when one casts an eye back over the numerous minnows who've been responsible for embarrassingly knocking United out of contention in early stages of the competition. Go do some homework.

@ Mr. C – you got it dead to rights as far as Best is concerned, and history is repeating again with Fergie and Rooney, to the detriment of the team.

@ Slim. - No offence, it's actually interesting to see your response.

I'm not being harsh, simply a realist who has been watching United play since the latter years of the Busby era, when players like Best, Charlton, and Law ruled the roost. It's one thing to be a rabid supporter totally blind to everything except winning, losing, and hating Liverpool to death. One gets the impressions that football has nothing to do with sport in the eyes of many supporters. It's an outlet for tribalism, a craving for identity to fill in the vacuum of hum drum existences.

It's another thing altogether to actually love and appreciate the best that football has to offer, to sit in wonder on the rare occasions we are privileged enough to watch true footballing genius grace a football pitch. I was too young to watch Pele at his peak, but I've had the good fortune to watch two other geniuses come along, firstly Maradona, and now Lionel Messi, who surely will go down in history being spoken of in the same breath as the aforementioned individuals, together with the likes of Di Stefano and one or two others. Berbatov may not rank up there with them, yet I would rate him amongst the second tier of great players I've been lucky enough to watch through the years, players like Best, Cruyff, Van Basten, Beckenbauer, etc. Make no mistake, had Berbatov been able to play for one of the European powerhouses he would have accomplished great things on the world stage - instead he was stuck fronting loyally for no-name Bulgaria. One of the great modern tragedies of football is that he ended up playing through some of his best years at United, a wasted talent unappreciated by both his manager and the majority of the fan base.

It should be the fervent desire of every United fan to want to see improvements to the team where necessary, to want to see the side play in a style befitting everything that United is supposed to represent - everything that Sir Matt instilled into the club. It is neither disloyal nor wrong to question the direction a manager is taking, or to question the efforts or desirability of an individual when it comes to their contributions to the club and a manager who blindly (desperately?) stands by the individual to the detriment of the club and player morale.

What many miserable roads did Rooney take United down this year, causing friction within the fan base, fractures outside of it, and negligible contributions on the field for much of the season?

As a husband the man showed himself to be an absolute slime bag with revelations about his liaisons with prostitutes while his young wife was pregnant – surely tales to fill every United fan's heart with warmth and good cheer.

Then came the disgraceful and self-obsessed demands regarding his tenure at the club – in the midst of an atrocious slump in form – which in times past would have had the England forward summarily shown the door in no uncertain terms by a manager famous for his intolerance of player revolts. Instead, Fergie did a backflip and not only rendered unheard of dispensation to Rooney's insubordination, but actually rewarded the performance and his abysmal early season form with a pay rise. Makes perfect sense – one wonders how others in the dressing room felt, and what lies in store for the future given the precedent set.

Next came the infamous elbow incident, which should have garnered Rooney a well-deserved suspension and a severe dressing down privately from Fergie – together with a public acknowledgement of the incident. Instead, the Scot leapt snidely and very publicly to his bastard child's defense, making a laughing stock of himself and the club, inviting the full fury of the media (which was gratefully accepted) and undermining every justifiable claim and argument that arose regarding foul play against United in subsequent games, many of which were justified but shrugged off because of the elbow incident and Fergie's hypocritical behaviour over it.

The comeuppance came via the camera incident, in which United's resident brain-head decided to unleash a verbal assault at a nearby TV camera after scoring, beautifully illustrating both his stupidity, his lack of forethought regarding the team, and the fairly base level of his language skills. United yet again had to endure further Rooney-inspired embarrassment, as well as his absence at an important stage of the season.

Finally came the recent Twitter incident, in which he yet again displayed his outright thoughtlessness and lack of acumen by becoming embroiled in a public slanging match and inviting the protagonist to a physical confrontation. More embarrassment for the club, with follow up sanctions put in place by management that has affected the more sensible contributions of team mates. Rooney must be REALLY popular in the dressing room after all his off-field shenanigans this season.

Where does it end, and when do people who support the club – even the rabid ones – finally draw the line with a player like Rooney and consider his personal behaviour too distasteful and detrimental to the club to tolerate any further? Does the guy have to start raping female supporters, or molesting children, before people say enough is enough, or is that forgiven as well while United continue to keep piling up domestic trophies? What's the bottom line?

In many ways the situation between Fergie and Rooney reminds me of Mike Tyson and his rise via the relationship to his first manager and trainer, Cus D'Amato. D'Amato was allegedly well aware of Tyson's issues with women long before they surfaced so publicly years later, but overlooked them in his desperation for one last shot at producing a heavyweight contender before age finally caught up with him – he died, sadly, only a year or so before Tyson won the title. Fergie seems to be following the same path with Rooney, desperate to retain the services of a player he sees as the lynchpin to his final successes prior to retirement. Never mind the dirt, the pandering, the petulance, the shameful off field indiscretions, the woeful performances and costly incidents on it. Never mind the double standard of constantly playing an out of form individual while telling others in the squad that form is the sole criteria for selection, or of punishing others with demotion for single game performances of less than stellar standard. Rooney is the 'special' one – never mind that he's the most over-rated player of recent memory, yet one who inspires slavish praise and loyalty from manager and fans alike because non-stop running, commitment, and a heart on the sleeve attitude are mistaken for class.

One of United's key strengths through the Fergie era has been the squad concept he brought to bear on the EPL in full measure, but such a system can only work effectively when all the players feel the manager is being even handed in his managerial style. How are the other players, the old hands like Scholes, Neville and Giggs who've been there throughout, and players such as Berbatov, the one who suffered most for Fergie's blinkered stance, to feel on witnessing the tolerance and kid glove treatment meted out to Rooney? With what kind of bemusement are the likes of Beckham, Keane, Stam and van Nistleroy supposed to view recent developments at Old Trafford after the short shrift they received for their own comparatively minor indiscretions in years gone by? How is any striker at United supposed to feel, knowing that regardless of how well they may be playing, or how poorly Rooney may be performing, the knife will always find a place in their back when it comes to giving preference to the diminutive scouser?

Slim got it right, and wrong, in the same line when discussing the physicality of English football and the difficulty of transitioning to Europe with that style. Why does England repeatedly fail in major tournaments with the same style, when it's been self evident for nearly half a century that it simply doesn't work against the continental style of tactics and possession, or against the more ebullient style of Sth. American teams that place such a high value on skill and artistry? England refuses to change either in the manner it plays or in the manner in which it trains at youth level, and sadly the same limiting factors have always been in evidence with the way Fergie has chosen to play in Europe. The only concession he's ever made is to adopt a more circumspect approach in away games and to adopt three man midfield's against quality opposition yet with the same unimaginative and limited players, Paul Scholes in his heyday excepted. Conversely, Liverpool never had any trouble notching up impressive performances in Europe while winning the domestic league, and while Rafa couldn't quite get Liverpool to the summit of the EPL again, he certainly performed admirably in Europe. Further, would anyone doubt that Barcelona could easily transition to winning the EPL while maintaining it's inimitable style, and still be the major contender for the European trophy?

The same argument can also be held up to question why Berba was ever brought to United, at such staggering expense, when he clearly stands as a shining example of all that Continental football has to offer. The acquisition rang out as a signal that Fergie intended a concession to European-style football in order to bolster the team's chances in Europe. Given what the Bulgarian accomplished at Tottenham, particularly given how he made a journeyman like Keane look like a world beater (as evidenced by Liverpool's ridiculous offer for the player, and subsequent failure) Fergie's eyes no doubt lit up at the thought of what he could accomplish with Rooney. Only two problems; Firstly, both are individuals who like to play behind another striker, one for the freedom it gives him, the other because it allows him to put his skills and ball-holding ability to work bringing others into the play (for the dummies, the former is Rooney, the latter is Berbatov). Secondly, for Rooney to work effectively off Berbatov, the team would have to play through and to Berbatov's strengths. Fergie has NEVER shown an inclination to invest in the Bulgarian to such an extent, preferring the tried and true formula of largely bypassing the midfield's weaknesses with one-dimensional wing play that caters more to Rooney's needs. So again, why throw thirty million pounds away on a player the manager couldn't bring himself to believe in? Berbatov has never failed United. It was United who failed the player by buying him with no real plan in place to fully utilize his rare gifts.

As for Fergie, the utter devotion and mindless hero worship on show in the responses is a sad indictment of just how immature and stupid people can get in their blinkered support of the team. Do you think mommy and daddy are still flawless and wonderful, or as you've grown you've realized that they too have flaws just like every one else? Every United supporter should be eternally grateful to Sir Alex for what he's accomplished at Old Trafford, for the joy he's brought to all of us over the last 25 years or so, for all the championships he's won, and for finally knocking Liverpool 'off their fucking perch'. But with all that said, it doesn't mean he's a flawless human being, or even a particularly decent one at times. As a manager of the players, and as the public face of the team, he has often shown himself very fallible, no more so than this season, and with increasing age it seems his levels of irritability, his intolerance, even his judgment on and off the field, are becoming increasingly impaired. The siege mentality that has served him so well as a player and manager have proven an embarrassment and a hindrance this season, no more so than in his blind loyalty to Wayne Rooney and in the manner in which he essentially called into question the integrity of a match official. The recent;y reported incident regarding banning a journalist who asked an innocent question also showed an extremely petty and vindictive side to his personality.

But it's as a manager that questions need to be asked, because as with a great player who has stayed on a season or tow past their best, one has to ask if even Fergie has not reached his use by date. His handling of Rooney has been truly appalling this year, both in the huge fallout it has created with officialdom and also with the media. It's easy to rant that a London-based media, and the BBC, have it in for United. The truth is that the fault lies mainly with Fergie, and it's largely the way he likes it. Never mind the fallout for the club – no one who can remember Sir Matt could ever imagine that great gentleman putting his own ego above the interests of the club, yet that is exactly what Fergie does each and every week via his refusal to talk to the BBC, even though it runs contrary to EPL code and even though it perpetuates a public relations disaster for the club.

But it's as a football manager that he is beginning to show that his judgment is impaired, not least in the ridiculous formation he chose to play against Barcelona. As with some of the fans, he was clearly sucked in by the one-sided nature of the semi-final, when prudence should have demanded that the relatively weak opponent faced, and the loss to Barcelona two years ago, should have dictated a much more circumspect approach to the final. The mishandling of Berbatov this season, the double standard towards Rooney, is not the kind of performance one would have expected from Sir Alex even five years ago. What it has done to the inner working of team harmony is any one's guess.

Above all though, Fergie's fierce adherence to the mindset of industry over culture, of artisan over artist, continues to hamper the side's development as a unit capable of winning domestically and Continentally. Fergie has become the ultimate pragmatist, preferring worker bees of high energy and input through the spine of the team, mileage over class, in a manner that may well garner him a few more domestic trophies prior to retirement, but ones that will never shine in the memory like some of the team's former glories.

One only has to look at United's midfield of recent years to realize where the major problems lie, problems which have been self evident, a clear achilles heel to exploit, but which he has steadfastly refused to concede or address. Unless teams like Real and Barca find ways to knock themselves out contention there will be no European success, not unless United bites the bullet and invests heavily in a major upgrade to the midfield – and finally realizes that Rooney is better suited to domestic duties where United can afford to prop him up with a second striker. At the very summit of domestic duties, and against Europe's best, they need someone else, someone who doesn't impose the limits that Rooney brings to the table.

A manager prepared to coach his players in a European style, and stick with the plan for a year or two with the blessing of management and fans, would also come in handy. I wonder if Pep would like to give the job a try?

Finally, to all who want to question my credentials as a critic and supporter, when you've been a fan for as long as I've been, and stuck with the team through childhood and nearly three decades of championship denial, come back and see me. 95% of you would jump ship under the circumstances and hop onto the latest footballing success story. So in other words, and in the vernacular most popular on this forum, go fuck yourselves.

How Old are You Buddy?
According to what you say about the 60's....you must be at least 52 ish - 61 Years Old ?
Which i Find difficult to understand seeing as you a have the maturity or sense of 5 year old sour scouse.
If you wanna make friends, Mate Do One & Join FuckBook.Com - the dating site equivalent to Facebook, Meet Some Fella & Choke on their Manhood or take a Cup & Eat a Bowl full of Feaeces.

Clint-IamYourPapii - he is probably so old he keeps going on about his life story, pethetic. He thinks he can do a better job than fergie, thats how old he has got in the head. Timbo go back to the nursing home where you truly belong, and get off someone else's laptop

Timbo ... jeepers, even I never wrote a post that long! lol. I did read it. All of it. Hell, I even agreed with some of it, especially the bits about Berbatov. A lot of the other stuff was a tad over the top. Would pay to keep it shorter, though (look at me talking!)

Wow mate your spot on..Sir Alex will make this club slide down the table..and next the Glazers will appoint you United's Manager and you will win the treble for the first time in English history. Oh wait, Sir Alex has already done that. But he isn't a tactician. How about you fuck off and keep your ignorant opinions to yourself. You wont back down because you are right? How about you stop embarrassing yourself, it's truly sad. This is a storied beautiful club, and cunt "supporters" like you just make real supporters laugh. Sack Fergie..what next, sell the the club to foreign billionaires, buy success and mercenaries like the troll, disregard loyalty passion and academy players who live and breath United, and act proud by jumping on the bandwagon? Fuck off back the the hole you crawled out of you fucking wanker.

Do you really believe a team could win as many trophies as we have in the last 5 years without a friggin midfield? Do you really think that just a good defence and forward line, with nothing in between could win 4 Premier League's, a Champions League, reach 2 more CL finals, win a couple of Carling Cups, plus the World Club Championship. Do me a favour. Shoot yourself in the head, revive yourself, and pull your toenails off with a pair of pliers.

Nobody's denying we need a creative spark in there NOW, with Scholesy past his best. But to say "it's been obvious for years" etc etc- crap.

@StatesideAussie - cheers. agreed on everything.
we could have done though without awful individual mistakes. we could have been 1-0 in front if not for the Evra's howler. Then another point was starting brightly but playing too academic football in the opposition territory and didn't trouble their goalkeeper at all. Even if those weren't the shots on goal. Just make them nervous. Instead we preferred to play the ball out wide as if we can play centrally ? No we can't. That's the point. Michael have never been an aggressive player and has a new role to play. Ryan is Ryan. So only Rooney left to penetrate the central area and it ain't enough. Speaking of Rooney he blessed us with some magnificent goals after the turn of the year but mainly he was also too passive these days. His goal against Chelsea scored at SM in the EPL was like a breath of fresh air for me. Pity we lost the match.

Sir Alex originally bought Berbatov thinking that Hargraves was going to the play a Keano type of role. Unfortunately, this was never meant to be, forcing Berb to play a deeper role. Have faith, Berbatov of all our striker will flourish with an improved midfield. Sir Alex Ferguson knows this and is the reason that Berbatov will remain with us.

@Timbo. Thank you for such articulate presentation of objectivity, wisdom and facts. I have three writer fans on here now. Should you lose your objectivity and conscience just because of your love for a club?? The impudence of some fans to disrespect other fans shows the ignorance of some of us on here. Yeah, the 'truth' always hurts. Fergie is human, and to err is natural.

Timbo - You should of just said you hate Rooney and Fergie should of won more champions leagues. Instead, we got some decent points, with a lot of tripe mixed in for good measure. Just because you wrote a 1000 paragraphs, doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. It seemed you have been coping old articles about Fergie and posting them on here. Some will probably lap your gestations up on here, I will not however.

Stpercival ... "Sir Alex originally bought Berbatov thinking that Hargraves was going to the play a Keano type of role." I am not sure if that's why bought Berbatov, but that is certainly why he bought Hargo.

@Corea ... no worries mate. Interesting point about the need to make them nervous. It's all about pressure. At this level, it has to be constant. And very often, the objective of the pressure isn't some immediate pay-off, like a goal. It's a process of building -- you apply pressure in layers: shut down their space as much as possible; deny them time -- not just time on the ball, but time to think; you make every little thing they do as difficult as possible; you frustrate and annoy them, and force them to operate at their maximum physical and mental levels for as long as possible -- until eventually something starts to give. It might not be a goal. Could be a misplaced pass, an interception, whatever -- but it's a crack, isn't it?

I thought we did a good job of putting on the pressure -- but only at select times. Other times we were quite content to just sit back and watch the merry-go-round. I don't know!

for all you stats lovers , here's some stats for you - leonardo has better stats on inter bench than mancini and mourinho...so much about stats...no matter what the stats say, he simply isn't good enough for united...

Timbo- I agreed with most of what you wrote. I think Fergie's decision to leave Berbatov out the squad was a disgrace. Liek you, I don't subscribe to the view that just because SAF is the greatest manager to have ever lived, that means he is beyond criticsm. Sure he knows more about football than I would know if I lived to a 1000 but that doesnt mean he doesnt royally f up now and again. He did the same thing on a smaller scale when he left Robbo off the subs bench for the 94 cup final when that would have been Robbo's final game for the club. really wrong. Yes, the club comes first, over sentimentality, but when you can be a little sentimental without risking a result, some players deserve the sentimentality, and Robbo was one of them. Putting Robbo and Berbatov on the bench would not have risked the results in any way.

I agree that SAF has a really vicious mean streak to him- for example when he tried to ban a reporter who was just doing his job.

What I find weird is that SAF clearly understands the concept of loyallty and rewarding players for their service to the club- see giggs, scholes and neville- so I dont get how he could have been such an utter bastard to Berbatov. Ferguson's comment about Owen's experience was such horse manure- like Berbatov doesnt have as much or if not more experience than Owen at every level. I'm an Owen fan as well, and I think he also deserved a place on the subs bench, but as well as, not instead of Berbatov. Ludicrus that space was made for fletcher and not Berbatov. I would imagine that Berbatov must have been stunned and wounded beyond belief.

Berbatov is such a humble and nice guy who really loves the club, that he may just let it slide, which I hope happens because I think he is a huge asset to the club.
As for those that hurl vile insults at any commentors who commit the crime of thinking for themselves and not acting as Sheeple, grow up and get a life. Ultimately its just a game, allbeit, an amazing game, and hurling personal abuse at commentors is not on.

Different styles required for different opponents... both very important.

Berba was(will be) vital for breaking down EPL opponents this year and for United getting 19. He came through especially against the teams who sat back in their own half and waited for us. With his class Berba cut through and unlocked some opponents where Hernandez' quickness, and Rooney's hustle were neutralized by a mass of waiting defenders.

However Barcelona are a different beast. Constant speed, hustle and determination are required. Berba just wasn't the right fit for the particular opponent.

Though I feel it was harsh to leave Berba off the bench to make way for Owen. I only ask this: What impact did Berba make in the 2009 final against Barca coming in off the bench in the 66th while Utd were down 1-0?

The man is a great player, and United will need his skills again in England next year. He was a class act when he waited patiently behind Rooney & Tevez. Hopefully he still has patience and belief in Fergie and stays on.

Take your head out of your ass. You've been wrong about Berbatov for three years. He had less to contribute than Michael Owen and that's why he wasn't picked.

He suits being picked in home matches against weaker teams when we can afford a fancy dan.

As for his 20 goals, we got 34 from Rooney the previous year. It's nothing special. Just a matter of convenience that his low total made him the top scorer but Ferguson doesn't pick people based on sentiment.

Just like so many of these issues there is two sides to the story. Van Nistlerooy unwilling to sit on the bench was actually a credit to his ambition. Berbatov wants to stay because he isn't going to get an offer from Real Madrid- and he knows it.