OP congrats and best wishes to your son. Sounds like he has some nice options. One thing our S thought about when he was a HS SR and thought he wanted engineering but wasn’t SURE, since he really had not much to base it on other than enjoying and doing well in math, physics, problem solving and computers was to go to a U that had enough flexibility that he could switch AND pursue other interests.

It worked out well for him that he went to a large private U with a nice merit package and found he enjoyed and is great at engineering. He was also happy he could take other courses and pursue other interests: rock climbing, geology, camping, sailing. If he had hated engineering, as one of his friends did, he could have switched to most other fields with no problems. His friend got a Bacgelor’s degree in psychology and went to law school when he decided he didn’t enjoy engineering. The U was very flexible.

Congrats to A-Commoner’s friend’s D! Hope finances work to make STANFORD work out for her.

My friend’s daughter got word today of being accepted at Stanford...after having been rejected by USC, Pomona, Grinnell. Her only other acceptance was UIUC which she was resigned to attending. Then Stanford came calling. What a day.

Yes, the process is interesting, if only for it's real or perceived randomness. I mentioned one of my son's female friends ... got into MIT, YALE, and Princeton ... rejected from Stanford. I would have thought she was a lock.

Now that the list is final. We will approach each school with a specific ask (discount on their current offer),respectfully presenting our rational. We actually started the process last week. Two off the schools have replied back that they are taking our request into consideration.

Our approach at this stage ...

You won't get unless you ask.

It doesn't hurt to ask. It can only help.

All except one of the schools, each ask seems reasonable (to us at least) but still material.

My friend’s daughter got word today of being accepted at Stanford...after having been rejected by USC, Pomona, Grinnell. Her only other acceptance was UIUC which she was resigned to attending. Then Stanford came calling. What a day.

Yes, the process is interesting, if only for it's real or perceived randomness. I mentioned one of my son's female friends ... got into MIT, YALE, and Princeton ... rejected from Stanford. I would have thought she was a lock.

At those schools, short of being a child of a President or similar, there ARE no locks.

Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

My friend’s daughter got word today of being accepted at Stanford...after having been rejected by USC, Pomona, Grinnell. Her only other acceptance was UIUC which she was resigned to attending. Then Stanford came calling. What a day.

Yes, the process is interesting, if only for it's real or perceived randomness. I mentioned one of my son's female friends ... got into MIT, YALE, and Princeton ... rejected from Stanford. I would have thought she was a lock.

Having been through this wringer of a process just last year through my daughter’s college applications plight, my take is that ACT scores and GPAs matter less to these highly selective schools once you meet a certain threshold. If you are a non athlete or have no other compelling attribute, you need a minimum of 30 for ACT and 3.8 GPA to be in the game. Then you need to spice up your application with things that are unique to you and hard to replicate by your competitors. What that “it” thing is, is hard to discern. Anecdotally, a girl from my daughter’s former HS (one year younger than my daughter but they were on the same scholastic bowl team) had scores and grades that just met those thresholds. Top 10% of the class but probably won’t be valedictorian or salutatorian. But she got accepted by Cornell, Dartmouth, Northwestern these past few weeks. Smart kid, but what makes her stand out is she is a Sudanese Muslim refugee who fled to the US with family. Parents found jobs as faculty at our local community college. She writes very well and is very poised and polite. The “it” factor.

My friend’s daughter got word today of being accepted at Stanford...after having been rejected by USC, Pomona, Grinnell. Her only other acceptance was UIUC which she was resigned to attending. Then Stanford came calling. What a day.

Yes, the process is interesting, if only for it's real or perceived randomness. I mentioned one of my son's female friends ... got into MIT, YALE, and Princeton ... rejected from Stanford. I would have thought she was a lock.

My first boyfriend was rejected by University of Toledo med school, but accepted by Stanford (and attended). He did also get into Duke and Yale.

What type of argument/ask do you make? Is it like, "You may not have heard, but I'm a national merit finalist now so I assume you will increase your scholarship offer?"

Negotiated graduate school scholarships. All schools were in a similar range of rankings.

Just played each offer off the other schools. Explained where else I was accepted, how much they were offering in scholarships and why I wanted to attend their school if they could come up with some more money. The first offer usually isn't their best offer and schools know kids now are going to negotiate.

I was able to increase my scholarship money by $20k/yr and attend the top school on my list. If you don't ask you're doing yourself a disservice.

My friend’s daughter got word today of being accepted at Stanford...after having been rejected by USC, Pomona, Grinnell. Her only other acceptance was UIUC which she was resigned to attending. Then Stanford came calling. What a day.

Yes, the process is interesting, if only for it's real or perceived randomness. I mentioned one of my son's female friends ... got into MIT, YALE, and Princeton ... rejected from Stanford. I would have thought she was a lock.

My first boyfriend was rejected by University of Toledo med school, but accepted by Stanford (and attended). He did also get into Duke and Yale.

So weird. For someone who got into Princeton, Duke and Yale med schools I wouldn't even consider U of T a safety.

My friend’s daughter got word today of being accepted at Stanford...after having been rejected by USC, Pomona, Grinnell. Her only other acceptance was UIUC which she was resigned to attending. Then Stanford came calling. What a day.

Yes, the process is interesting, if only for it's real or perceived randomness. I mentioned one of my son's female friends ... got into MIT, YALE, and Princeton ... rejected from Stanford. I would have thought she was a lock.

My first boyfriend was rejected by University of Toledo med school, but accepted by Stanford (and attended). He did also get into Duke and Yale.

So weird. For someone who got into Princeton, Duke and Yale med schools I wouldn't even consider U of T a safety.

Yea, I think he was being a bit cautious... not that it worked out for him! haha, his safety rejected him. They probably knew they were the safety.

What type of argument/ask do you make? Is it like, "You may not have heard, but I'm a national merit finalist now so I assume you will increase your scholarship offer?"

Negotiated graduate school scholarships. All schools were in a similar range of rankings.

Just played each offer off the other schools. Explained where else I was accepted, how much they were offering in scholarships and why I wanted to attend their school if they could come up with some more money. The first offer usually isn't their best offer and schools know kids now are going to negotiate.

I was able to increase my scholarship money by $20k/yr and attend the top school on my list. If you don't ask you're doing yourself a disservice.

Thank you!

Question: Did you ask for specific cost reductions or just ask them to do better?

Question: Did you ask for specific cost reductions or just ask them to do better?

I started the conversations off with just do better. Some had me fill out forms which required me to verify where else I was accepted, what their offers were and how much additional aid I was looking for. Others just came back with a higher offer.

I wouldn't commit to a specific number until you have to!

They aren't going to withdraw the acceptance so worse case scenario they just say no.

OP, thanks a bunch for your posts and answering questions, both online and in PM, from confused parents of high school seniors. I personally benefited from your posts and received lots of help from you. Thank you!

OP, thanks a bunch for your posts and answering questions, both online and in PM, from confused parents of high school seniors. I personally benefited from your posts and received lots of help from you. Thank you!

What if getting into your reach schools didn’t require four years of excessive A.P.-taking, overwhelming activity schedules, and constant stress?

In How to Be a High School Superstar, Cal Newport explores the world of relaxed superstars—students who scored spots at the nation’s top colleges by leading uncluttered, low stress, and authentic lives. Drawing from extensive interviews and cutting-edge science, Newport explains the surprising truths behind these superstars’ mixture of happiness and admissions success, including:

· Why doing less is the foundation for becoming more impressive.
· Why demonstrating passion is meaningless, but being interesting is crucial.
· Why accomplishments that are hard to explain are better than accomplishments that are hard to do.

These insights are accompanied by step-by-step instructions to help any student adopt the relaxed superstar lifestyle—proving that getting into college doesn’t have to be a chore to survive, but instead can be the reward for living a genuinely interesting life.

We left our son at Notre Dame today, closing off this portion of the journey. The school has a really nice ~2 day program for parents and family, including a tour of the football stadium. It eases the transition for the parents, and leaves with you drinking the Notre Dame kool aid. We actually got there a bit early because he needed to be there early to test out of a few math classes. That went well so he'll be able to take a Computer Science class (intro type) and something related to music.

I've received a few more PMs to post a summary. I promise to by the end of the month - officially end this thread

What if getting into your reach schools didn’t require four years of excessive A.P.-taking, overwhelming activity schedules, and constant stress?

In How to Be a High School Superstar, Cal Newport explores the world of relaxed superstars—students who scored spots at the nation’s top colleges by leading uncluttered, low stress, and authentic lives. Drawing from extensive interviews and cutting-edge science, Newport explains the surprising truths behind these superstars’ mixture of happiness and admissions success, including:

· Why doing less is the foundation for becoming more impressive.
· Why demonstrating passion is meaningless, but being interesting is crucial.
· Why accomplishments that are hard to explain are better than accomplishments that are hard to do.

These insights are accompanied by step-by-step instructions to help any student adopt the relaxed superstar lifestyle—proving that getting into college doesn’t have to be a chore to survive, but instead can be the reward for living a genuinely interesting life.

OP, thanks again for helping us all by sharing your own family's journey!
I've PMed you on this, but I totally disagree with the ideas you quoted from the book. I think those ideas are rather misleading, especially considering the kids typically get one chance at college applications. Real story, my kid has several friends who're just like that, good students but not top of the class, laid back, participated in but not much "accomplishments" in few EC activities. In the end, except for one who's in the "disadvantaged group" according to "affirmative action", all others had fairly disappointing results from their college applications.

Thank you for journaling your family's journey. This thread has been immensely inspiring and very much relevant for DS, who is a HS junior, also in Illinois. He will be applying for CS/Engineering programs next year. He just took the ACT this month and scored a 36. He will be taking PSAT/NMSQT in October.

Thank you for journalist your family's journey. This thread has been immensely inspiring and very much relevant for DS, who is a HS junior, also in Illinois. He will be applying for CS/Engineering programs next year. He just took the ACT this month and scored a 36. He will be taking PSAT/NMSQT in October.

That's awesome. Your DS will have a lot of great options.

For what it's worth, there seems to be a high correlation between the ACT and SAT. The SAT does have the subject tests (Physics, Math, etc.).

He's still thinking computer engineering. He's also thinking about a dual major (math). We've been gently nudging against that. As it might be better to use those credit hours to explore or go deep on something else. Either way ... his call.

Lesson - There are many roads to Dublin.

In terms of the economics, we feel good about our choices. (1) He really likes the school (2) We really like the school (3) Our income has gone up more than expected via some planning and some luck. While a good chunk of money, it doesn't impact our lifestyle or retirement planning. (4) His ability and willingness to generate income is quite high. (Something TomatoTomahto mentioned.) We've agreed on how much goes to consumption vs. tuition.

Lesson - You need to develop your own POV on college costs and funding college. If someone were to ask my opinion, I would only offer 4 things: (1) Never sacrifice retirement planning (2) Debt for the student should be coupled with his/her ability to generate income (current and future). And remember that not everyone graduates. Life happens. Either way, the debt needs to be paid back. (3) As the parent or guardian, I would never take on long term debt for my child's college. (4) Students can generate income, enough to cover quite a bit of the overall cost.

I wouldn't discourage Math if that's what he wants to do. I am sure that you know this, but you can never know too much math. I'm an ND BSEE, MIT MS & PHd in EE. My math background is kind of weak. I don't need any more than I have, but it wouldn't ever hurt to have studied more.

He's still thinking computer engineering. He's also thinking about a dual major (math). We've been gently nudging against that. As it might be better to use those credit hours to explore or go deep on something else. Either way ... his call.

Lesson - There are many roads to Dublin.

In terms of the economics, we feel good about our choices. (1) He really likes the school (2) We really like the school (3) Our income has gone up more than expected via some planning and some luck. While a good chunk of money, it doesn't impact our lifestyle or retirement planning. (4) His ability and willingness to generate income is quite high. (Something TomatoTomahto mentioned.) We've agreed on how much goes to consumption vs. tuition.

Lesson - You need to develop your own POV on college costs and funding college. If someone were to ask my opinion, I would only offer 4 things: (1) Never sacrifice retirement planning (2) Debt for the student should be coupled with his/her ability to generate income (current and future). And remember that not everyone graduates. Life happens. Either way, the debt needs to be paid back. (3) As the parent or guardian, I would never take on long term debt for my child's college. (4) Students can generate income, enough to cover quite a bit of the overall cost.

Just to be clear, the OP or his son took on some debt for his son to attend Notre Dame? Because that's what it sounds like. I'm curious because the OP was SO adamently opposed to any kind of debt at all for his son and was willing to spend $25k cash flow and $10k college savings. What happened? It would be nice to see a summary of how they are paying for Notre Dame.

Just to be clear, the OP or his son took on some debt for his son to attend Notre Dame? Because that's what it sounds like. I'm curious because the OP was SO adamantly opposed to any kind of debt at all for his son and was willing to spend $25k cash flow and $10k college savings. What happened? It would be nice to see a summary of how they are paying for Notre Dame.

No ... no debt. The short answer is that we are cash flowing it. As noted above, we made a couple of adjustments (spouse working full time w/healthy income) and some luck (couple of promotions). Our improved circumstances allowed for three things: pay off the house, build a larger safety net (dual income and emergency fund), and send him to school debt free.

On the helpful side, he received some merit from the school and a handful of other sources. Additionally, he'll be kicking in. At this point, he should earn enough money to pay (the equivalent of) 1/2 year to one full year's tuition.

The original budget was created based on what we knew at the time and our thinking/beliefs back then. We learned and adjusted.

(No need to debate the merits of debt or no debt. That horse was killed about 200 posts ago . We can agree that it's a personal choice and move on.)

Last edited by timmy on Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I wouldn't discourage Math if that's what he wants to do. I am sure that you know this, but you can never know too much math. I'm an ND BSEE, MIT MS & PHd in EE. My math background is kind of weak. I don't need any more than I have, but it wouldn't ever hurt to have studied more.

He's still thinking computer engineering. He's also thinking about a dual major (math). We've been gently nudging against that. As it might be better to use those credit hours to explore or go deep on something else. Either way ... his call.

Lesson - There are many roads to Dublin.

In terms of the economics, we feel good about our choices. (1) He really likes the school (2) We really like the school (3) Our income has gone up more than expected via some planning and some luck. While a good chunk of money, it doesn't impact our lifestyle or retirement planning. (4) His ability and willingness to generate income is quite high. (Something TomatoTomahto mentioned.) We've agreed on how much goes to consumption vs. tuition.

Lesson - You need to develop your own POV on college costs and funding college. If someone were to ask my opinion, I would only offer 4 things: (1) Never sacrifice retirement planning (2) Debt for the student should be coupled with his/her ability to generate income (current and future). And remember that not everyone graduates. Life happens. Either way, the debt needs to be paid back. (3) As the parent or guardian, I would never take on long term debt for my child's college. (4) Students can generate income, enough to cover quite a bit of the overall cost.

Peace out. And thanks again for all the feedback.

Everything worked out very well in the end for your son and your family. Great summary. Congratulations!!

And I would urge people not to be offended by nerd, dork, etc. As I understand it there is an emerging "nerd culture" and I'm sure many people on this board think of themselves as nerds. I know I mean no offense at using the term. I hope none is taken.

Just to be clear, the OP or his son took on some debt for his son to attend Notre Dame? Because that's what it sounds like. I'm curious because the OP was SO adamantly opposed to any kind of debt at all for his son and was willing to spend $25k cash flow and $10k college savings. What happened? It would be nice to see a summary of how they are paying for Notre Dame.

No ... no debt. The short answer is that we are cash flowing it. As noted above, we made a couple of adjustments (spouse working full time w/healthy income) and some luck (couple of promotions). Our improved circumstances allowed for three things: pay off the house, build a larger safety net (dual income and emergency fund), and send him to school debt free.

On the helpful side, he received some merit from the school and a handful of other sources. Additionally, he'll be kicking in. At this point, he should earn enough money to pay (the equivalent of) 1/2 year to one full year's tuition.

The original budget was created based on what we knew at the time and our thinking/beliefs back then. We learned and adjusted.

(No need to debate the merits of debt or no debt. That horse was killed about 200 posts ago . We can agree that it's a personal choice and move on.)

Nice, and remember he can still pursue 2 or 3-year ROTC on-campus scholarships.

My kids did that to afford their $50-$60k/year private schools (as parents we only committed to paying for an in-state school)