Dumb question on children disipline. Went down to P. Rico to visit my girlfriends best friend, who has 3 children. Children had recieved about 15 presents from both of us in trhee days with a super squirter yet to be given out (I bought this myself). I was in our bedroom (thier house) on the phone with work in a serious discussion, when two of the children came into the room becuase they heard from my girlfriend that "there was somthing "special" in the beach bag (we were going to the beach that day). Girl was 8, boy was 5 1/2 yrs old. While on the phone, they were making a commotion in the room trying to figure out what was in the bag. I asked the children to leave because "I had an important phone call", but they saw the "gun" and went ballistacally happy. I told them that if they left for a little while, I would then give them the gun. Well, about two minutes later they burst back into the room (I closed the door), and they went "ballistic" agian, telling me they wanted the gun. Well, I lost my temper and told them that since they didn't listen to me they wouldn't get the "gun" that day. Well, all hell broke loose with thier mother. The boy refused to go to the beach, and the mother was really upset. I informed her of why I did what I did, and she said "it wasn't fair". The boy then went up to me in the living room and physically hit me numerous times (of course no harm to me), but the mother didn't say or do anything to the boy. I told the boy my father would tell me "listen, you're going to "get it now" for that behavior (hitting an adult), and you can take it one of two ways, standing like a man, or running around with a chicken like his head cut off (he had the notorious grandfathers mining belt, which was about 6" wide!) Well, the mother went nuts. The husband and my girlfriend had "twisted" my arm to give the boy the gun, which I really didn't want to do. We ended up leaving the country yesterday (5 days short of our planned trip) because the wife really gave my girlfriend a hard time on my behavior, and thankful enough my girlfriend whole hartedly agreed with my actions (we even did go to the beach that day and everybody did have a good time, except the mother who stayed home because she was 5 months pregnant). My point was the the children had already gotten numerous presents, and the mother was "caving in" to a 5 year olds demands (since he wasn't getting the gun, he was going to throw a tantrum and not go to the beach). What ticks me off even more is that the husband told me in the car on the way to the beach is that he understood what and why I did, but that I should apologize to his wife becuse she felt that "I threatend her child rearing techniuqes". On top of that, the five days that we were down there, both my girlfriend and myself paid for the entire families lunch and dinners (for 4 days, and no cheap restaurants) and a hotel room for the family and us when we dove to the other side of the island. Both my girlfirend and myself are in our 30's, never married and no children, so were not adept to child rearing "techniques", but if anything good came out of this, we both agree that we feel that thier children lack disipline (I mentioned to my girlfriend that if that boy would of been mine, and I saw him hitting an adult for no reason other than a "tantrum", I would of yanked his arm out of his socket. Please, for any parents out there, what would you of done? I don't think I was wrong.

No, you weren't wrong in your expectations of what would be reasonable behavior on the children's part. On the other hand, you're not the kid's parent, and as much as you might disapprove of the way these parents are raising their kids, in fact they are their kids and not yours. My advice (as someone who spent 20 years as a marriage and family therapist), let it go. If you go back to PR with this lady minimize the amount of time you spend w/her family, and work at enjoying yourselves with out the kids around.
By the way, if and when you do get married (whether to this lady or someone else), I'd encourage you to find nonviolent ways to get the behavior you'd like to see out of your children. I'm all for discipline in the home, with clearcut rules and unpleasant consequences for breaking the rules, but my experience tells me that there are far more effective ways to help a youngster learn right from wrong than with a belt.
Incidentally, I've managed to raise 4 young people to adulthood, and am now working on number 5, who is aged 4 at the moment, so my experience in this area is practical, as well as theoretical.

This seems to be reflective of society today, everyone demands a handout
thinking that life owes them something. The kids have no manners and the reason
is the parents did not demand that they be respectful to adults and guest. Their
mother and father should not have allowed you to "Pay you way" they were the
host and should have provided for you, the guest. I can see if you offered and
they accecpted/declined then it would be OK. These kids are growing up by
watching TV and not have the moral guidance that a good family should have
provided. If you put a cookie on a table most kids will just take it without
asking because no one has told them that they must ask first. I believe in firm
discipline, there is a big difference between a spanking and a beating. Spare
the rod, spoil the child. Today it's not PC to spank kids, look around and see
what you get. If you do the right job, your kids will be a reflection of yourself.
just my 0.02 Ron

Thank you for the input. I'm afraid the only thing that might of been ruined is the relationship between my girlfriend and her friend. I will be staying away from this family primarily due to political beliefs. They think Clinton was set up by the republicans (they placed Monica in the White house), and Americans shouldn't own guns. The husband is originally from Portugal (rec. his doctorate in N.C), and wholehartedly believes that the united states is "behind the times" compared to Europe. Luckily my girlfirend is a dentist, and really dislikes thier (the family) views on public health care in the united states. I would hate to use the term "socialist", but I can't help it!
It was a learning experience with children.
My only problem now is if we do get married in the future, this woman MIGHT be in the wedding, and they really dislike guns, and I can be an "asshole" somtimes.... It would make for an interesting wedding reception. Again thks

I'd like to add that I don't believe in physical disipline, and that it should be refrained from at all cost with children. As mentioned before, there is a difference between dicipline and a beating. I don't think that life is fair, but you should follow the 10 commandments to the best of your ability, and due unto others as you would have done unto you. I've learned alot from my father, who at 5'5" and 130lbs, did pretty well for 24 years in the military as a e-7. I can only hope that I can do half the job raising my future children as he did with me.

Unfortunetly, this wasn't a child problem, but an adult problem. The Parents, should never have allowed the children to come into the room, where you were on the phone, to start with. The parents of these two children, need to teach their children about other people's privacy and maybe some parenting class's.
You on the other hand, made a tactical error. By not announcing that you had to make an important business call, the other adult's did not know they should keep the children out of the room. Not having your own children, this was an understandable error.

People raise their children different ways I guess, but I think the child should have been disciplined in some way. Children who aren't disciplined end up getting in trouble a lot when they get older. I know this because lots of my friends who weren't disciplined by there parents are dicks to many people around them, mainly their parents!

I don't think you did any thing wrong.The father should have took the kid and given an immediate spanking.That's what I would have done with my 5 yr old boy.
I do not hesitate to spank mine when he deserves it.People are always commenting on how well behaved my son is along with how close we are. The "EXPERTS" tell us we should REASON with our children,Hell you can't even reason with many adults much less a 5 yr old.I always tell mine what he's getting the spanking for and I never let myself do it when I'm angry.He averages about 1 a month.
I have a question for the Liberal Psycho "EXPERTS"----Are our kids better behaved today when spanking is frowned upon or were they better behaved 30,40,50 years ago when spanking was more commen?

I like you,so when I become Ruler of the World I'll make your death quick and painless.

I must agree with 13f, try your best(and it is hard, hard to do)to follow the Ten Commandments in front of kids and also adults. If we all tried to do this, the world would be a wonderful place.
Just attempt to set a good example, dont lose your temper and the child will see in you things you never saw in yourself. Good luck to all parents, it is the hardest thing in life you will ever do but also the most rewarding.

I have a one year old boy and he got in to this thing that he would smack us if he got mad well I put an end to that if he smacked me he go smacked back (not hard most of the time he laughed.)But a week later he stopped doing it. I have a 18 year old brother that would try fighting me all the time when he was 17 he tried to punch me in the face and well I took him down to the ground not by hitting him just grasped his arm twist and he was down on the ground. My Mother comes out a screams at me and she thinks I'm trying to kill him they thing I heard was your two big to be doing this but my brother was just a poor little boy ya right. Some kids need the crape slapped out of them I think all my neces and nephews do .

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark

Be sure and read James Dobsons book LOVE THEM, DISCIPLINE THEM. For the most part, the people who advocate the non violent approach to child rearing have kids who are a pain in the...
Never spank a child when you are angry! Send them to their room to let them think about their actions while you discuss appropriate disciple with their mother. Two cool heads will usually come up with the appropriate discipline. The reason you left PR was their parents fault!

I think you were right. You did nothing wrong. IMO the line is if you had disciplined the kids without the parents permission. You did not try to discipline the kids, you merely told them what should have happened to them. Most parents today need to control their kids better. It seems that they all let them do what they want and act like brats. With my kids, I am what some might call somewhat strict. I do not put up with a lot of crap that whiney brats do, but I always try to be fair. Bottom line, their problem not yours.

The only thing you did wrong was to give the little heathen the gun...Personally I would have smashed the blessed thing on the ground to ensure that he never had a chance to play with it. I made that a rule with my two kids sometime ago... If you fight over a toy it gets smashed!! Hmmm come to think of it I only had to actually go though with it ONCE...they seemed to catch on REAL REAL FAST!!
Sorry for your luck sounds like it COULD have been a nice trip.

I know that I would go crazy if I found out that I had a new gift coming. Being that the kid was five and you where on the phone I think that it was just bad timing. The kids sound pretty normal, but the mother sounds like she needs some help. Not every one does a good job raising their children. Hopefully the kid will fighure it out on his own.

why do you you think there is violence to the extreme now of days....nobody spanks their kids that came outlate 70's early 80's and it suks...i was spanked not beaten and it made me understand that if i do something wrong i got punished.....there is more fights in public now then there was 20 years ago and people talk shit even when they are wrong...my .02 it because as a soceity as a whole we stoped spanking....P.S. dont hit your children when your angry...spank them and drop it and always give them love and attention.

I have a question for the Liberal Psycho "EXPERTS"----Are our kids better behaved today when spanking is frowned upon or were they better behaved 30,40,50 years ago when spanking was more commen?[/quote]
I'm still waiting.

I like you,so when I become Ruler of the World I'll make your death quick and painless.

Ditto on Dr. James Dobson's books.
Children need to be reared having learned they are accountable for their actions and therefore held responsible.
This the job of the parents. It is a full time job that requires 24-7 commitment.
BTW - I have 2 children, 2 step children and 2 grand children. Two of the children have been difficult, one, a girl, was molested from the age of 2 until about 12. I got into her life at about 14. Everything wrong you can imagine has happened, discipline wise.
My recommendation to you would be to tell the parents what you expect from them, in regards to the behavior of their children, in any future get togethers. If they cannot abide with that let them make the decision.
Then both of you know exactly where the other stands.

I have read the above mentioned posted. My .02 are as follows : I spank my 4 sometimes, othertimes I use other methods. Reguardless of what method used, childern need to learn respect. If 2 of mine had done what was described above, they would have been spanked, NOT given the gun. My father taught me respect and it has served me VERY WELL!