haim wrote:countries like Russia and China promote corrupted, repressive dictatorships ( in other words, reproduce their evil empires in other places). That is the bottom line. Only pathological American haters (usually losers in real life) cannot see this simple truth.

Personally I object to the last sentence. I do not agree that China has a corrupted (corrupt, perhaps, but then you can say that of many democracies around the world - care to check on Malaysia?) repressive dictatorship, I am not a pathological American hater - and I am not a loser in real life! I do not believe such sweeping illogical presumptions contribute anything to the discussion..

FH it is just ridiculous that you try to deny that China had some of the worst sweat shops in modern times and to this day the US companies who care constantly have to visit Chinese factories to make sure that working conditions reflect Western Norms. Certainly the US had problems with treating Labor that way in their history .

Without the US and to a lesser extent other Western Democracies, just who do you think China would have sold their goods to? Australia ? You always fail to comment on the fact that the Chinese are the biggest thieves in the history of the modern world. They steal intellectual property like 5 year olds eat candy.

Yes of course Western Companies and especially US companies are complicit in the trade imbalance and the US Government is complicit in not demanding that China has to import our goods with no tariffs.

This modern economic miracle that China has benefited from is due completely to Western Democracies allowing them to trade and steal etc.

Without the US etc who would China sell goods to, Cambodia? Please don't try to tell me that the US has benefited from trade with China. I grew up and lived during this time and I watched as US Companies and Government sold us out to the Chinese.

It is the one thing Trump ran on that I agreed with in the abstract. But of course I know it is now impossible to roll back what has happened , and can only try to insert some fairness into the relationship. The US Consumer has gotten used to 60 inch TV's for $400.

Some months ago I said I would not debate firecat69 on the subject of China. My views are based on personal experience and a lot of specifics. I don’t deny that some of firecat69’s comments may have had some validity but they are wrapped up in often inaccurate sweeping generalizations as I have illustrated. He and Haim seem to believe that there is either black or white when in fact there is a vast array of shades in between. I grant my views are very different. But I will not debate on the basis of generalizations. Gentleman, you have the China issue to yourselves. Since this thread focuses on Iran, I still maintain there are major differences between Tiananmen Square and what I understand is presently taking place in Iran.

I never tried to pretend that I understood China in any way comparable to you. I have kept the arguments alive hoping that just once you would admit that Communist China is the biggest thief in the history of the world when it comes to intellectual property.

But of course you would not have a leg to stand on if you cared to enter that argument. For all their great accomplishments in stealing others property , please inform me anything of value that they have invented in the last 30 years.

My assumption is that corruption is now much reduced. “Reduced? It's now much worse,” he exclaims! “Look at all these houses and apartments. The smallest at about 80 sq. meters costs a minimum of US$500,000. Most are several times larger. Who do you think owns them?” He answers his own question. “Ministers, civil servants, the army, families of rich individuals. Everyone able to squeeze cash out of deals.” He then surprises me. “Corruption is everywhere now.” He even alleges that the Supreme Leader pockets US$13 million EVERY DAY!

Is this actually true? I guess I will never know. He also tells of the authorities’ deep-rooted fear of another Revolution. “The young people want more freedom. They are faithful Muslims but they are fed up with all the restrictions. Another clash like that in 2009 will happen, probably sooner than later.”

Terrific photos and stories Fountainhall. (I've come to expect that.)

Interesting (and ironic) what your guide said to you above, in light of the recent upheaval and deadly protests going on in Iran right now.

By THOMAS ERDBRINKJanuary 1, 2018TEHRAN — Ignoring pleas for calm from President Hassan Rouhani, Iranian protesters took to the streets in several cities for the fifth day on Monday as pent-up economic and political frustrations boiled over in the broadest display of discontent in years.

The Iranian government responded with conciliatory words from Mr. Rouhani, but also a widening security clampdown — and a pledge late Monday to crack down even harder.

The government will not allow an “insecure situation to continue in Tehran,” Brig. Gen Esmaeil Kowsari, deputy chief of the main Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps base in Tehran, told the semiofficial ISNA news agency. “If this situation continues, the officials will definitely make some decisions and at that point this business will be finished.”

Despite Mr. Rouhani’s diplomatic language, it was clear the demonstrators would be given no leeway. The deputy interior minister, Hossein Zolfaghari, told the semiofficial Jamaran website, “From tonight the unrest will be controlled more seriously.”

Ominous wording indeed.I cerainly hope that we are not looking at a Tiananmen Square type disaster.No matter how one looks at it, the rulers of Iran are religious fundamentalists, and that kind of ilk reaches for the guns quicker than most.