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Webbunny tumblelog
story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?.
In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

<quoted text>I do think that there should be three different vocabulary words, one for someone that does not belief in God, and one for someone that is anti-religion, and one for those that appose beliefs period.IMO, the lack of moral structure is the secondary reason I would not want to see any in office. The main reason being, we do not need people that are against religion, in America.

In America we are free to have people who do not agree with religion.

Different people have different ideas and thoughts and opinions, so if the religious people can use different names to distinguish the difference in opinion to start with then I don't see why other people cannot. You seem to be much more intolerant to things than you once portrayed yourself to be.

<quoted text>Christians- They dont have to stay in the closet but for goodness sake keep it in the church with the doors locked and the curtains pulled. I dont want to hear or know about whats going on between individuals when it comes to their lifestyle choice. Keep it in the church!!! And stop the ongoing recruitment of kids. I like that song Jethro Tull sings,Thick as a Brick.Really don't mind if you sit this one out.My words but a whisper your deafness a SHOUT.I may make you feel but I can't make you think.Your sperm's in the gutter your love's in the sink.So you ride yourselves over the fields andyou make all your animal deals andyour wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick.And the sand-castle virtues are all swept awayin the tidal destruction the moral melee.The elastic retreat rings the close of playas the last wave uncovers the newfangled way.But your new shoes are worn at the heelsand your suntan does rapidly peeland your wise men don't know how it feelsto be thick as a brick.And the love that I feel is so far away:I'm a bad dream that I just had todayand you shake your head and say it's a shame.Spin me back down the years and the days of my youth.Draw the lace and black curtains and shut out the whole truth.Spin me down the long ages: let them sing the song.See there! A son is born and we pronounce him fit to fight.There are black-heads on his shoulders, and he pees himself in the night.We'll make a man of him, put him to tradeteach him to play Monopoly and how to sing in the rain.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =toHlMD50eYYXX

Years ago we could keep the church unlocked all the time but not anymore. Now we have to have alarm systems, covert surveillance systems and security.

Of course we want to keep it in the church. Most churches have environmental temperature control and nice restrooms. These types of comforts make it really nice to enjoy services. You dont have to fight the mosquitoes, hot and cold weather.

Recruiting kids? If you call recruitment the feeding, clothing, sheltering abused children, drug rehab, building schools, giving medicine, donations to cancer research, building hospitals, helping the homeless, donations for school supplies, shoes, crisis counseling, orphanages, adoptions, running water in distant lands and other benevolent services. Then I guess we are guilty of that. They need help and theyre not getting it from Atheist.

The marriage between a man and a woman has only been around for hundreds of thousands of years. You're a result from a relationship from a male and female. We all are, thats how we ended up on this crazy ride.

<quoted text>The Christian God does exist, the prove you ask for is, you talk about it so much. For there to be no will-o-the-wisp it would have to be unnoticed.

This is a default answer that you know is incorrect when you type it, and you simply look to stir emotion from it. Factually, you have no solid proof for a god, you only hope, and believe, or have "faith" that there is one.

<quoted text>I am glad you just posted this. The topic is "Atheism requires as much faith as religion?" Why is the God I believe in or worship, or The Christian God coming up. The answer is. You can't stay on topic, and if you could you could, it would just be your denying the answer is clearly. Yes. You cannot prove that there was no creator of The universe, nor could you prove mankind was not created. One could not prove the creator of the Universe created mankind. The harsh reality is we don't know enough to call anything, anything else besides a leap of faith. Now please stop showing your bad comprehension skills. You can not prove how The Universe started. No one has.

Because those are the sub-topics that were brought up in this thread.... and if the title of this thread were in question form, the answer would be "No, it does not." I do not need much faith to understand what science has told me about the universe thus far and none of that points to a creator as of yet. If they show me some sign of a creator, or if someone else may be able to show me some sign of a creator, then it would take as much faith as religion.

<quoted text>Yes, slavery is wrong and illegal today. It's simply wrong (immoral) for one person to own another, it's immoral now and was immoral 2000 years ago when your God condoned it.I do know that the bible is the number one seller, but of course one has to take into consideration the fact that every hotel room in the world contains a Gideon Bible. As a book on history it is worthless, same for science, especially science, and is completely worthless when it comes to teaching morality, given the sheer weigh of episodes of gratuitous suffering, cruelty, intolerance, and misogyny, it is totally worthless.A Tale of Two Cities has sold 200 million, The Lord Of The Rings, 150 million, The Steps To Christ, a mer 60 million. The Lord of The Rings outsold a book on Jesus by almost twice as many.Victor Stenger has written 12 books so far, his latest God The Failed Hypothesis, was in fact on the New York best seller list when it first came out. Still doing well I hear.

No book has ever outsold the Bible in the history of Print.

I own a bible and you would be surprised to know I have a copy of the Atheist Manifesto on my Kindle Fire. I love Atheist and always find them intriguing.

<quoted text>I was responding to someone that was taking sides. It is unfortunate, but you can't discuss religion without being condescending. Make no mistake about it, I view you as sub human for having your beliefs. A Christian is just slightly misguided. I am glad this is a Christian based society. I would never want to life in an Atheist based society, and yes I would take ANY GROUP over you.

<quoted text>I have come to the conclusion that those who's brains are severely damaged, the True Believers, that there is little reason not to post a formulaic reply.After all-- 9 of 10 posts they write are too ugly to take seriously.

Agree Some are entertaining, others bizarre, some are hate filled and blame us for societies ills.

HmmToilets in heaven?Who cooks the food?Those that renounce their earthly evil ways but get free admission... Provided they beg forgiveness PRIOR to death.

What a 'steaming pile of dogma'.

The Religious-Right wants to keep deformed fetuses and vegetable state victims alive while they approve of the killing of innocent women, children, and men in their "moral" wars, and thorough their cutting of social services.

Harrumph!

These religious institutions are in irreversible decline. They are ruled by moral and intellectual trolls. They have become arrogant and self-absorbed. Their sins are many. They protected criminals. They pandered to the lowest common denominator and illusions of personal fulfillment and surrendered their moral authority. They did not fight the corporate tyrants who have impoverished us. They refused to denounce a caste of Christian heretics embodied by the Christian right and have, for their cowardice, been usurped by bizarre proto-fascists clutching the Christian cross.

They have nothing left to say. And their aging congregants, who are fleeing the church in droves, know it. But dont think the world will be a better place for their demise.But it's a good start!

<quoted text>The ability to reason can be used in order to deny God's exixtence or to seek him.Richard Bamford used that ability to make reason his God.His foolish search for wisdom has landed him in the land of foolsIn the process he has spouted a number of bombastic statements for which he provides no evidence.Who endowed him with the ability to reasom?God did not forbid knowledge , and the Bible , which Atheists claim was devised and written by uneducated Goatherders , is the most popular book ever written.It has sold more copies , has been translated into more languages and more widely than any other book.It has been used as an educational tool since it's inception.The copies of the bible that have been sold would fill thousands of libraries. It's teachings are practiced by billions of people.It is on the teachings of the bible and belief in God that Wesrern civilization forms it's foundation...magna carta , Declaration of Independence"Those who believed in God set the foundation for our Health system and medicine.It is they who founded hospitals and the nursing profession.It is they who laid the foundation for our educational system.It is they who feed the poor.When there is a catastrophe it is the Red Cross , founded by a believer , who rushes to their assistance. It is Feed The Chidren , Catholic Charities , Salvation Army and other faith based organizations who tend to the needs of the lesss fortunate.It is the the words of the bible that are written in our Federal building "And they shall beat their swords into plowshares and make war no more" not the Atheistic slogan espoused by Mao "All power flows from the barrel of a gun"It is the " Scales of justice that sre engraved in our Supreme Court , not the lawless belief espoused by Atheist Societies .It is Jesus who said , All things are possible by faith in God.Atheism has not made any contributions to Western civilization.They have however , wreaked havoc in the countries where they have ruled by human reason.They murdered millions under Mao . They murdered by the millions under Pol Pot , They murderd by the millions under Stalin.It was Alexander Solshenytsin who laid bare the cruelty of USSRIt was Lech Walessa and the Pope who freed Poland from the tentacles of communism.What those who believe in God have accomplished by far and away supersedes anything accomplished by Atheists.The facts are there for all to see.No , reason is not the true God. God gave man the ability to reason. That some have not learned to use it properly and have instead made it their God is the way of a fool.

<quoted text>Pharaoh had a choice didnt he?He had had nine previous warnings but he was just too stubborn to heed.But you dont blame Pharaoh for being a butt head?Egypt was the Worlds Super Power with a military unmatched anywhere in the world. God broke their back and they never recovered even to this very day.Only those that had the lambs blood over their door post were saved. Doctor, if you dont have the lambs blood over your life its going to be bad for you as well. Egypt had a choice to be saved just like you do. But they refused as you have refused.And you are wrong my Dear Doctor about Japan. It was an American President acting as Commander and Chief that ordered the bombing of Japan with the first nuclear weapon. Thats how history has recorded it. Thankfully you Atheist cant go back and rewrite history.How about this one Doctor.March 9 1945On this day, U.S. warplanes launch a new bombing offensive against Japan, dropping 2,000 tons of incendiary bombs on Tokyo over the course of the next 48 hours. Almost 16 square miles in and around the Japanese capital were incinerated, and between 80,000 and 130,000 Japanese civilians were killed in the worst single firestorm in recorded history.The 130,000 civilians that were burned to death in the firebombing of Tokyo has never been mentioned by you. That one was ordered by General Curtis Lemay. Women, children, infants, the elderly and disabled all were burned to death. That event doesnt seem to be on your radar screen.

Holy shit pops, he murdered innocent little babies, I don't care what his reasons were. Don't you think he could have persuaded the Egyptian ruler by some other means rather than murdering little babies? There was no war here, Moses didn't have an army. You tried to justify the murders of children a few posts ago using war as the reason. You can't use the same justification here, but you still try to cover for your Gods horrible actions against harmless defenseless little,babies, I find this shocking!!!

I am sorry but I am NOT wrong here. The order for the dropping of the Atom bomb on Japan was given by President of the United States Harry S. Truman. Harry Truman was a Christian, specifically he was a Baptist.

I am sure you are knowledgeable about the history if WW2, and KNOW that the resolve held by the Japanese was unflinching. In many ways it was almost a religious motivation that kept them fighting even after they knew they could never win the war. Hero Hito was considered a God by most of the Japanese soldiers. Tarawa proved how fanatical the Japanese were and the very idea of invading their homeland was incomprehensible. Millions of lives would have been lost on both sides. Unlike your Egyptian example, this was WAR, and right along with it comes collateral damage. Dropping the Atom bomb saved millions of lives on both sides

<quoted text>Christians- They dont have to stay in the closet but for goodness sake keep it in the church with the doors locked and the curtains pulled. I dont want to hear or know about whats going on between individuals when it comes to their lifestyle choice. Keep it in the church!!! And stop the ongoing recruitment of kids. I like that song Jethro Tull sings,Thick as a Brick.Really don't mind if you sit this one out.My words but a whisper your deafness a SHOUT.I may make you feel but I can't make you think.Your sperm's in the gutter your love's in the sink.So you ride yourselves over the fields andyou make all your animal deals andyour wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick.And the sand-castle virtues are all swept awayin the tidal destruction the moral melee.The elastic retreat rings the close of playas the last wave uncovers the newfangled way.But your new shoes are worn at the heelsand your suntan does rapidly peeland your wise men don't know how it feelsto be thick as a brick.And the love that I feel is so far away:I'm a bad dream that I just had todayand you shake your head and say it's a shame.Spin me back down the years and the days of my youth.Draw the lace and black curtains and shut out the whole truth.Spin me down the long ages: let them sing the song.See there! A son is born and we pronounce him fit to fight.There are black-heads on his shoulders, and he pees himself in the night.We'll make a man of him, put him to tradeteach him to play Monopoly and how to sing in the rain.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =toHlMD50eYYXX

Thank you, I did listen to the song (9.55 minutes) and it does rock. But its meaning is a two edge sword. It meaning can be applied to Christians as you have intended and on the other side of the blade, it can be applied to Atheist.

"Thick as a brick" is a phrase meaning stubbornly dumb, as one's head is so thick that no new thoughts can enter it. The song starts with Ian Anderson expressing his low expectations for his target ("I may make you feel but I can't make you think") before singing about class structures, conformity, and the rigid moralistic beliefs of the establishment that perpetuates it.

The song follows a young boy who sees two career paths: soldier and artist. He chooses the life of a soldier, just like his father. We see him assimilate into the society he once rebelled against, becoming just like his dad.

<quoted text>Years ago we could keep the church unlocked all the time but not anymore. Now we have to have alarm systems, covert surveillance systems and security.

Sounds downright restrictive. A cult in other words.

Eagle 12 wrote:

<quoted text>Of course we want to keep it in the church. Most churches have environmental temperature control and nice restrooms. These types of comforts make it really nice to enjoy services. You dont have to fight the mosquitoes, hot and cold weather.

But only if you can get past the security, right? Step through the metal detector and bend over, spread your cheeks?

Can you spare a quatta for old alta boy, fadder?

Eagle 12 wrote:

<quoted text>Recruiting kids? If you call recruitment the feeding, clothing, sheltering abused children, drug rehab, building schools, giving medicine, donations to cancer research, building hospitals, helping the homeless, donations for school supplies, shoes, crisis counseling, orphanages, adoptions, running water in distant lands and other benevolent services. Then I guess we are guilty of that. They need help and theyre not getting it from Atheist.

Wrong. I volunteer in orphanages. Wanna know why?

Eagle 12 wrote:

<quoted text>The marriage between a man and a woman has only been around for hundreds of thousands of years. You're a result from a relationship from a male and female. We all are, thats how we ended up on this crazy ride.

Then why the need for orphanages? Why the need for adoption?

You have no idea what your preaching but you keep doing it for some reason. Why?

<quoted text>I have come to the conclusion that those who's brains are severely damaged, the True Believers, that there is little reason not to post a formulaic reply.After all-- 9 of 10 posts they write are too ugly to take seriously.

I could not agree more.

I use formulaic(canned) posts replies often.I have something for everything from facts to humor to insults if attacked.

<quoted text>AgreeSome are entertaining, others bizarre, some are hate filled and blame us for societies ills.I cannot - take serious... Gods.'Our' theists add trouble, subtract pleasure, divide attention, and multiply ignorance. ;)Simple LOGIC seems to annoy them.They yearn for immortality yet fail to really consider paradise problems.HmmToilets in heaven?Who cooks the food?Those that renounce their earthly evil ways but get free admission... Provided they beg forgiveness PRIOR to death.What a 'steaming pile of dogma'.The Religious-Right wants to keep deformed fetuses and vegetable state victims alive while they approve of the killing of innocent women, children, and men in their "moral" wars, and thorough their cutting of social services.Harrumph!These religious institutions are in irreversible decline. They are ruled by moral and intellectual trolls. They have become arrogant and self-absorbed. Their sins are many. They protected criminals. They pandered to the lowest common denominator and illusions of personal fulfillment and surrendered their moral authority. They did not fight the corporate tyrants who have impoverished us. They refused to denounce a caste of Christian heretics embodied by the Christian right and have, for their cowardice, been usurped by bizarre proto-fascists clutching the Christian cross.They have nothing left to say. And their aging congregants, who are fleeing the church in droves, know it. But dont think the world will be a better place for their demise.But it's a good start!

There are over 450,000 churches in the United States according to Premier Tourism Marketing's website and a few others.

Simple LOGIC????

You use simple LOGIC?

As in simpleton?

arrogant and self-absorbed, Oh you mean like yourself?

who are fleeing the church in droves,

I guess thats why a church purchased the Summit in Houston Texas. Their crowds were getting so small.

<quoted text>UM< all of them. It is going to be a part of government, 9/11, Just like Hitler is to Jews, Catholics and molestation.Ect. Religions should be taught the way Government history is. It is more important to learn religions than it is Presidents. It give children the rights to half truth and justice. To vote at 18 or change your spiritual belief. Not from a cultural view but from the word.

There are literally thousands of different religions, and you want ALL of them taught? Already the education system here in the US is completely inadequate with our children falling further and further behind in math and the sciences, and you want to clog up our education system with the teaching of EVERY religion that exists? You find nothing wrong with teaching myths and magic, things that are only imagined, things that are totally unsupported, instead of math, science, literature, and the arts?

<quoted text>Years ago we could keep the church unlocked all the time but not anymore. Now we have to have alarm systems, covert surveillance systems and security.Of course we want to keep it in the church. Most churches have environmental temperature control and nice restrooms. These types of comforts make it really nice to enjoy services. You dont have to fight the mosquitoes, hot and cold weather.Recruiting kids? If you call recruitment the feeding, clothing, sheltering abused children, drug rehab, building schools, giving medicine, donations to cancer research, building hospitals, helping the homeless, donations for school supplies, shoes, crisis counseling, orphanages, adoptions, running water in distant lands and other benevolent services. Then I guess we are guilty of that. They need help and theyre not getting it from Atheist.The marriage between a man and a woman has only been around for hundreds of thousands of years. You're a result from a relationship from a male and female. We all are, thats how we ended up on this crazy ride.

It's brainwashing.

Innocent children, scarred, some of them for life.

And you don't get it, because you yourself were victimized and ended up a godbot.

<quoted text>Holy shit pops, he murdered innocent little babies, I don't care what his reasons were. Don't you think he could have persuaded the Egyptian ruler by some other means rather than murdering little babies? There was no war here, Moses didn't have an army. You tried to justify the murders of children a few posts ago using war as the reason. You can't use the same justification here, but you still try to cover for your Gods horrible actions against harmless defenseless little,babies, I find this shocking!!!I am sorry but I am NOT wrong here. The order for the dropping of the Atom bomb on Japan was given by President of the United States Harry S. Truman. Harry Truman was a Christian, specifically he was a Baptist.I am sure you are knowledgeable about the history if WW2, and KNOW that the resolve held by the Japanese was unflinching. In many ways it was almost a religious motivation that kept them fighting even after they knew they could never win the war. Hero Hito was considered a God by most of the Japanese soldiers. Tarawa proved how fanatical the Japanese were and the very idea of invading their homeland was incomprehensible. Millions of lives would have been lost on both sides. Unlike your Egyptian example, this was WAR, and right along with it comes collateral damage. Dropping the Atom bomb saved millions of lives on both sides

I just dont know what side of History I want to be on with it comes to the Atomic Bomb. It was a different time and mindset for the American people. It was a history I inherited when I was born. The same as with the civil war.

Could there have been alternate places for the A-Bomb such as Okinawa or one of the Japanese Islands that was predominantly military?

President Truman was not the Pope or a religious leader. He was the President of the United States, a politician. The headlines at the time did not say,Christian President ordered A-Bomb dropped on Japan.

I dont deny God can be cruel and indifferent. He can hate or love you. The firstborn dying in Egypt broke the camels back. That was the end of being slaves by the Hebrews. Until prior to WWII.

<quoted text>It's brainwashing.Innocent children, scarred, some of them for life.And you don't get it, because you yourself were victimized and ended up a godbot.

My wife and I had a wonderful time today. We were invited to grandparents day at the private school. My wife and I had a wonderful time today. We were invited to grandparents day at the private school. What festivities and good time of food and fellowship.

We all started out with the Pledge of Allegiance to the US Flag, then followed by the pledge to the Christian Flag, and finally the pledge to the Bible. I would have loved for you to have been there and seen all those little Godbots!

The kids did a great job of singing and telling their grandparents how much they appreciate them. We got to see the classrooms and the work the kids have been doing. It was grand for all us oldies.

<quoted text>There are over 450,000 churches in the United States according to Premier Tourism Marketing's website and a few others.Simple LOGIC????You use simple LOGIC?As in simpleton?arrogant and self-absorbed, Oh you mean like yourself?who are fleeing the church in droves,I guess thats why a church purchased the Summit in Houston Texas. Their crowds were getting so small.

YES !

Two simple LOGIC questions!

A) Provide evidence that your God is the only true God in a way that religions other than yours cannot do.

B) Provide evidence that your holy book is true in a way that religions other than yours cannot do with theirs.

Until this time, and it will be an eternity - you are only one of many religious cult members - each claiming more or less the same immortality or enlightenment as others.

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