I thought stuck played the point very well in stretches tonight, he wasnt forcing anything and it looked smooth and easy for him instead of the childbirth he is accustomed to.

Click to expand...

He played the point for about 3 minutes (to end the 1st qtr), once the responsibility of running the team offense and managing the game were taken off his plate it looked as if a 2 ton elephant was lifted off of him. Stuckey has proven to me that he can't think or see the game, but he can PLAY the game off instinct and he loses his instincts when he's asked to run the point, the same thing happened last season when all the injuries forced Stuckey off the ball and we started Chucky at the point, don't you remember when we were actually marveling at how much better Chucky looked at the point than Stuckey, Sucky Atkins!!!!! Seriously????

Bynum only played 18 minutes and 12 of those were a result of playing the entire 4th qtr when we pretty much kept the game out of reach and were able to rest T-Mac and Stuckey the entire 4th qtr. I think Will can deliver 12 minutes of PG duty to give guys some rest and limit the amount of time Stuckey has to spend at the point.

Click to expand...

What I am referring to is the fact that other than 2 made free throws, we did not score for a period of 5 minutes in the 2nd quarter. (1 minute into the 2nd quarter until 6 minutes into the 2nd quarter.) That is not a good outing for a point guard. And in the 2nd half - the team played well around Bynum, not from his play. Other than a couple of decent defensive plays, Bynum contributed zilch to this win.

He played the point for about 3 minutes (to end the 1st qtr), once the responsibility of running the team offense and managing the game were taken off his plate it looked as if a 2 ton elephant was lifted off of him. Stuckey has proven to me that he can't think or see the game, but he can PLAY the game off instinct and he loses his instincts when he's asked to run the point, the same thing happened last season when all the injuries forced Stuckey off the ball and we started Chucky at the point, don't you remember when we were actually marveling at how much better Chucky looked at the point than Stuckey, Sucky Atkins!!!!! Seriously????

Click to expand...

I don't remember 'marveling' at Atkins at all. I remember lamenting on how well and how much more efficiently Stuck played at the two, and how he seemed much more comfortable there. It wasn't that Atkins did anything special. In fact, Stuckey had a stretch of 25 pts/5 assist on 50% shooting games at shooting guard with Atkins.

defenitely exposing it. I dont think Ben would have the same reaction if he were removed from the starting rotation though. He knows he is at the end and ready to retire, I think he would relish the role of mentor and help the youngster along...I think it would be hard on his ego but I think he can rationalize that it takes him to step back for the franchise to move forward and he bleeds red white and blue for the team. His case and rips are different, Rip can still play at a high level, he just chooses not to...does anyone think if ben were able he would play balls to the wall..thats the only way he knows how to play and thats why the fans here love him so much. I think ben will slide to the back seat and teach the bigs how to play defense and little tricks they can use.

Click to expand...

Ben has said it from the start of last season that he did not expect to start for the team. He has been playing less than 25 minutes since his Cavs years. So I don't think there will be any problem with Ben being out of the rotation. I agree with you.

Monroe played 40 minutes!!!! I do not say that to hint that the coaches are wearing him out. That is very impressive for a rookie.

The other thing that impresses me is his recent PPG average when he doesn't score off of post-ups/jump hooks or dunks. They're all layups.

Click to expand...

Think of everything the team has to go through in order for Rip to score 16 pts, pretty good that a young 20 year old rookie can get you around 15 pts (Stuckey's season avg by the way) without having to run a single play for him.

Tay looks good in all his jumper inside 12 feet. Think he did not miss any of them at all. The block on Haywood was all ball.

So much of the best zone D in the league for the Mavs. Pistons kept scoring and scoring.

Is Mason still the announcer for Pistons home games?

Click to expand...

The block on Haywood was all ball up top, but down below, Tay's body hit into Haywood's body before the block. So it was a foul. (Generally, if such contact - body to body - occurs after the block, it is not called a foul.)

Could you break those stats down a bit for me. Vs. non-playoff bound teams, and then vs. playoff bound teams. Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

I'm just looking at the last 3 games where some roles have been re-assigned. Stuckey is now a SG. TMac is the starting PG and Bynum is the backup PG.

Bynum had a very rough start to the season. Whether he was injured or he just plain stunk, it doesn't matter. Whether you like it or not, Will the Thrill is back for now.

And whether Bynum is playing or not, this current Pistons team is still mediocre at best. This will become evident, as you are possibly suggesting with your post, when we play the Celtics tomorrow night.

I'm just looking at the last 3 games where some roles have been re-assigned. Stuckey is now a SG. TMac is the starting PG and Bynum is the backup PG.

Bynum had a very rough start to the season. Whether he was injured or he just plain stunk, it doesn't matter. Whether you like it or not, Will the Thrill is back for now.

And whether Bynum is playing or not, this current Pistons team is still mediocre at best. This will become evident, as you are possibly suggesting with your post, when we play the Celtics tomorrow night.

Click to expand...

You mean the Boston Celtics we just beat? Are you suggesting the Pistons are a mediocre team? Why would you care one iota who plays if you think they are hopeless? Me, I think the Pistons can beat the Celts, and a whole lot of other teams yet this season and make noise in the playoffs. I do care, therefore, if we got a guy who can't play basketball against playoff teams in our rotation.

You mean the Boston Celtics we just beat? Are you suggesting the Pistons are a mediocre team? Why would you care one iota who plays if you think they are hopeless? Me, I think the Pistons can beat the Celts, and a whole lot of other teams yet this season and make noise in the playoffs. I do care, therefore, if we got a guy who can't play basketball against playoff teams in our rotation.

Click to expand...

If you saw the Celtics last night, you saw that they are a different team with a healthy Kevin Garnett.

I care about the future of the Pistons. I like the move of Stuckey to shooting guard. Most of us on the forum have pushed for this for a LONG time now. If TMac is our starting PG, Bynum is our best option as his backup. Throwing other players (Gordon, Stuckey, Tay, Rip, etc.) out there at the PG position has not worked in the past and will not work effectively now. Bynum has shown that he can play in this league. If he is healthy and can regain some confidence, he will make a fine backup PG for 15-20 minutes per game.

When Stuckey brought the ball up the court, opposing post defenders were able to keep one eye on Stuckey and collapse when he opted to drive the lane. Now that he's playing off the ball, he's receiving passes in space. Defenders simply don't have the time to effectively rotate, leading to better looks at the rim and more desperation fouls.

Click to expand...

Better looks at the rim, more desperation fouls AND fewer collisions. Again, pairing him with a 6'8" PG in T-Mac still allows Stuckey to man handle the other teams PG's as teams are opting to live with Stuckey posting their PG up as opposed to T-Mac, not to mention that on most nights Tay has a height advantage in the post against other SF's in the league.

This Boston game is going to be a great test, on the road and Boston has KG and Rondo back this time hopefully Stuckey can wear Rondo out on the block and beat him up a little bit.

I don't really like how he makes it sound like Rip dropped off of a cliff because his shooting percentage in 2 specific distance ranges is down. Rip still leads the team in scoring rate. He's shooting almost 40% from deep, which is significantly higher than Ben Gordon. He gets to the line and converts at a better rate than anyone except for Stuckey. Rip's overall stats have dropped off, but he's also been on a team without a point guard. Any shooting specialist's stats will suffer when they no longer get open shots.

It is time to move on though. The reason is because we won't be a contender until Rip is too old to contribute, so it's better to free up his salary for the rebuilding effort.

One thing that is a fact is that a Championship was won with Rip Hamilton at SG. Not only was he on that team and starting, but he led the team in scoring, was 2nd in assists, and was 2nd in steals. It's tough for me to fault him for trying to continue to play a style that got him the ring and his all-star appearances.

If you saw the Celtics last night, you saw that they are a different team with a healthy Kevin Garnett.

I care about the future of the Pistons. I like the move of Stuckey to shooting guard. Most of us on the forum have pushed for this for a LONG time now. If TMac is our starting PG, Bynum is our best option as his backup. Throwing other players (Gordon, Stuckey, Tay, Rip, etc.) out there at the PG position has not worked in the past and will not work effectively now. Bynum has shown that he can play in this league. If he is healthy and can regain some confidence, he will make a fine backup PG for 15-20 minutes per game.

Irregardless, Dumars needs to address the PG position.

Click to expand...

You got two choices right now, one - play Stuckey for 15 minutes at point, and 20 at shooting guard. Two - play Stuckey for 35 minutes at shooting guard, and having Bynum play some backup point. I'll take the first choice. No Bynum. Your opinion that Bynum can be an ok backup point is not one I share.

A better choice, which we both seem to agree on - get another backup point for TMAC, if not a flat out starting point guard.

Remember, its a matter of choices you have to make today. Regardless of what you wish for, you have what you have. To make the best of what we have right now - we got to use Stuckey at the point somewhat, or even Tay or Gordon if we have to. Any of these choices are better than playing Bynum. You call the other choices inefficient? Take a really good look at Bynum's play vs. a decent defensive team like Dallas, and tell me how more inefficient you can get.

Oh, and one more thing. I still hope we keep Rip - and for now, he can simply be the backup shooting guard for those 15 minutes where Stuckey is playing the point.

If we do trade Rip away, it should be for a player we can use, not cap relief. Either a quality point guard, or a well rounded big. Someone like Murphy perhaps who can hit from the outside and rebound - but also someone who can play serious D around the basket.

Yes, I know, Dumars has a ton of excuses as to why he has not done one thing since the Sheed trade to improve the team. Cap move after cap move. I don't buy one of them. Its just being cheap, and trying to foist the garbage on the fans with various stories about how the moves have "potential", either in some garbage player actually working out - or the really far fetched one at this point - the player we can get later with the cap space. No, its time for the Pistons to think about their fans for a moment - and give us a better product to watch.

This last 10 games split removes most of the games where Bynum was playing at less than 100%.

I guess I'd take your option where Bynum plays some backup point. On a per minute basis for the season, he's virtually identical to Stuckey. Same FG%, same assists, same turnovers, same foul rate, same steal rate, same FT%, etc. They even have the same eFG% with .453 for Bynum and .452 for Stuckey (the 2 worst on the team). One difference is that Bynum spent the first half of the season playing horribly and the 2nd half he's on fire (shooting over 50% from the field).

While he's hot, I'd keep going with it, especially since he was coming off of an injury and he's been known to play through pain without letting it be known.

I love the Pistons more than all of you combined. I believe that they will win the NBA Championship this year and then go on to represent the USA in the next Olympics as a unit, where they will not only win the gold, but redefine basketball as we know it.