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Trump and take a knee...

there is something simmering under at the whitehouse but trump seems really good at pushing folk to the edge then backing off - always being ambiguous enough to survive on to the next potential crisis.

FWIW i think the whole flag = country = military stuff is a bad road....we have it with poppies here.... the whole indivisibility of it all make any criticism of say the UKs involvement in NI or iraq or libya suddenly becoming unpatriotic.

I can see this being the first of many acts of public defiance in response to things Trump says or does. The Yanks are getting as sick of him as everyone else it seems.

I wouldn't be to sure of that! Just because the media are ramping it up doesn't mean the Yanks are against what Trump said about standing for the flag, you can be sure the next few months there will be empty stadiums, the Yanks are very patriotic and will vote with there feet.

I was happy to see them take a knee but not sure how thats gonna go down in deepest darkest Louisiana. Every facebook post they have made on game updates today has been full of trump supporting crazies. Also the players twitters have been full of personal abuse.

I think this protest will split support the most for teams like New Orleans as when I go to games theres generally a mixed support of all races in the stands as opposed to some other NFL teams where the crowd is about 99% white.

The whole situation is mental really, imagine a Uk politican coming out and calling your players Sons of $#@!es on twitter.

I wouldn't be to sure of that! Just because the media are ramping it up doesn't mean the Yanks are against what Trump said about standing for the flag, you can be sure the next few months there will be empty stadiums, the Yanks are very patriotic and will vote with there feet.

I dont imagine many winning teams stadiums being empty but I did see New York Giants fans online who were burning season tickets..... Not that its got anything to do with their 0-3 start.

I wouldn't be to sure of that! Just because the media are ramping it up doesn't mean the Yanks are against what Trump said about standing for the flag, you can be sure the next few months there will be empty stadiums, the Yanks are very patriotic and will vote with there feet.

It's a 100% the media ramping it up. If you read the comments and social media, the majority of the fans are really pissed off about the disrespect shown to the national anthem.Last season Colin Kaepernick started this trend and the fans and media both tore in to him. Was cut from the 49ers and not one NFL team picked him up as a free agent. Now all of a sudden it's okay to disrespect the national anthem, and fans? Trumps a bell end, but this agenda by the media is as blatant as they come.

It's a 100% the media ramping it up. If you read the comments and social media, the majority of the fans are really pissed off about the disrespect shown to the national anthem.

That's your social media though. The echo chamber effect is a dangerous thing. It's what's helped Trump in his war against the media. Everyone thinks "the majority of people agree with opinion X" these days because their choices online have filtered out a lot of other people's opinions.By contrast my twitter is full of #TakeAKnee and people supporting the players. I'm aware that's because I largely follow lefty leaning media though and that this isn't universally the case.

It's a 100% the media ramping it up. If you read the comments and social media, the majority of the fans are really pissed off about the disrespect shown to the national anthem.Last season Colin Kaepernick started this trend and the fans and media both tore in to him. Was cut from the 49ers and not one NFL team picked him up as a free agent. Now all of a sudden it's okay to disrespect the national anthem, and fans? Trumps a bell end, but this agenda by the media is as blatant as they come.

That's your social media though. The echo chamber effect is a dangerous thing. It's what's helped Trump in his war against the media. Everyone thinks "the majority of people agree with opinion X" these days because their choices online have filtered out a lot of other people's opinions.By contrast my twitter is full of #TakeAKnee and people supporting the players. I'm aware that's because I largely follow lefty leaning media though and that this isn't universally the case.

Using the "majority agree" is a bit of a sweeping statement. I'm not on Twitter or FB, I was reading the comments from the stories on Yahoo, which is a pretty left and anti Trump platform. Any sporting event, or event I've been where the national anthem is played, everyone stands up and are proud of there country. It's different than back home. You drive through any neighborhood and you'll see the flag waving from many of the houses. I honestly think the media have had a huge hand in splitting the country in half right now.

Using the "majority agree" is a bit of a sweeping statement. I'm not on Twitter or FB, I was reading the comments from the stories on Yahoo, which is a pretty left and anti Trump platform. Any sporting event, or event I've been where the national anthem is played, everyone stands up and are proud of there country. It's different than back home. You drive through any neighborhood and you'll see the flag waving from many of the houses. I honestly think the media have had a huge hand in splitting the country in half right now.

So what flag do the black folk fly in 'their' neighbourhood then?

Fúckin clubs are fúckin dull the fúckin pubs are fúckin full
Of fúckin girls and fúckin guys with fúckin murder in their eyes

Most streets and neighborhoods have flags flying from houses. I'm not against people protesting. What I find really disturbing is the way the media have turned the country against each other. You have one group of people wanting to protest the national anthem and country and another that are very offended by this. Every day the media keep adding fuel to the fire rather than try to help get the country closer together. All of this because the dumb ass in power tweeted something stupid. You read the tweet "YOUR FIRED" Anyone knows that's his catchphrase from the reality show he hosted.

It's a 100% the media ramping it up. If you read the comments and social media, the majority of the fans are really pissed off about the disrespect shown to the national anthem.Last season Colin Kaepernick started this trend and the fans and media both tore in to him. Was cut from the 49ers and not one NFL team picked him up as a free agent. Now all of a sudden it's okay to disrespect the national anthem, and fans? Trumps a bell end, but this agenda by the media is as blatant as they come.

Re Kaepernick, wasn't it that he opted out his contract rather than him being cut?

Re Kaepernick, wasn't it that he opted out his contract rather than him being cut?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That I'm not sure off. I do know he was shunned and not picked up during the start of the season though. He's a decent QB and would improve a few teams. I have no doubt now that some team will come in and sign him now the trend has turned. This whole situation has potential for a lot of violence and race war to start. How long before college players and high school players start following suit? What you end up with is a blacks against whites on the field and in the stands.

Except they do mix and always have. Politics has always used sport to its desired end though not always successfully.
The anthem stuff in the nfl is a new thing anyway and came at the behest of the military to rally the troops and encourage recruitment. It was a political act and a manufactured tradition.
And the idea that this is the media turning the us against one another only works if you ignore everything trump has ever said. He’s a master at it.

The whole thing is baffling. I don't know what to make of it and I am not sure what it is about and I can't be bothered looking into something so trivial. Same as actors and musicians, I am not particularly interested in their political views. Why does Los Angeles have two NFL teams that suck anyway ?

I did have a look at Trump's Twitter account. He's a bigger moron than I initially thought.

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Sounds awfy like bending the knee from game of thrones.

Disrespecting national anthems - and your own - just seems an irrational way to make your point, good as it might be. Using it to take on trump is just lunacy. He’s a dingal and no mistake but a democratically elected one.

It's not the despair. I can cope with the despair. It's the hope I can't stand.

Disrespecting national anthems - and your own - just seems an irrational way to make your point, good as it might be. Using it to take on trump is just lunacy. He’s a dingal and no mistake but a democratically elected one.

I'm pretty sure the players would say they are not disrespecting the national anthem. They silently kneel or stand and link hands. What other way can they make their point that won't just get either ignored or shouted down? I would say this has been a very effective, non violent, utterly respectful protest. I expect that concept is very hard to comprehend for certain lovers of freedom who believe freedom is only freedom if you follow a very strict code of what they consider freedom loving actions.

Disrespecting would be something like those 2 hun fannies who sat with their 2 fingers stuck up at the Scotland game.

The Sherman's do seem to have a strange hard on for their flag and anthem. It's almost cult like. Before every event singing it, making kids do the pledge of allegiance. Comes across as brain washing nonsense. And as anthems go, it's a bit crap.

It'd be great if the owners sacked the "sons of $#@!es", can you imagine an all white NBA or NFL? Or a Hispanic free MLB.

Exactly Dubbles! From now on in protest whenever I'm asked "Who was the first man on the moon?" I'm gonna say "Take a $#@!in kneel Armstrong ya bass!"

And then I'll hum the tune tae "arms and legs and knees and toes...knees and toes... dinnae ken what the choon is called but ye ken what I mean innit? Just for extra annoyisimns likes.

@Dub
TBF 'taking the knee' is an American football term. The quarterback kneels down just after the ball is snapped from the line of scrimmage if he wants to sacrifice one play for some extra time to think up what to do on the next play.

@Dub
TBF 'taking the knee' is an American football term. The quarterback kneels down just after the ball is snapped from the line of scrimmage if he wants to sacrifice one play for some extra time to think up what to do on the next play.

Clear as mud?

"Taking a knee?!" They're taking a $#@!in liberty by calling it fitba! Though they do deserve credit for calling it American. I like Americans. Complete heid the baws but...

@Dub
TBF 'taking the knee' is an American football term. The quarterback kneels down just after the ball is snapped from the line of scrimmage if he wants to sacrifice one play for some extra time to think up what to do on the next play.

Clear as mud?

Alternatively, it happens if the quarterback doesn't want tackled by Bobby Boucher. I mean, come on; who would?

As for the whole argument...

Does America still have a serious problem with institutionalised racism? Yes, of course it does. Not necessarily the overt kind where people run around calling blacks "niggers" or "coons", but the subversive type that sees immediate reactions to black crime significantly less lenient than the immediate reactions to white crime. But this is also a class-related problem, one that America is developing at breakneck speed, and the problem is exasperated by an overtly right-wing, neoliberal media that frame the debate as a polarised one that simply entrenches (or emboldens) already held beliefs.

The current president of the United States is, quite clearly, a shrill narcissist with leanings toward white-supremacism. The observable evidence for this is overwhelming. The reason he's reacted the way he has to players kneeling is because he knows, full well, that there's no political loss by doing so; his supporters, that I reckon he understands quite well, are not going to be put off by it, and more liberal people are already dead set against his presidency anyway, and have been since the colleges elected him.

One side views him as a laughably insecure moron, the other as someone who determinedly stands up for America. There's really no middle ground as there was for the likes of Bill Clinton or, to a lesser extent, Barack Obama.

Sports stars, who have no real influence that the rest of us don't, are just making their feelings on the subject known.

I say "good for them", but think the gesture is utterly futile.

Like the echo chamber of social media, they're unlikely to convince anyone not already in agreement with them.

@Dub
TBF 'taking the knee' is an American football term. The quarterback kneels down just after the ball is snapped from the line of scrimmage if he wants to sacrifice one play for some extra time to think up what to do on the next play.

Clear as mud?

I understand the rules of football, most of them anyway. I was referring to the actual phrase. It's called kneeling so why not just use that. "The players knelt during the anthem" seems fair enough to me as it is to use the phrase during a game of football.

They're gone, not here, forgotten
The maroon brigade now cry
The city is now Hibernian
The team that would not die

I understand the rules of football, most of them anyway. I was referring to the actual phrase. It's called kneeling so why not just use that. "The players knelt during the anthem" seems fair enough to me as it is to use the phrase during a game of football.

Kneeling = 2 knees, proper kneeling as at church.

Taking a knee = 1 knee, as pwr my previous post?

Fúckin clubs are fúckin dull the fúckin pubs are fúckin full
Of fúckin girls and fúckin guys with fúckin murder in their eyes

I understand the rules of football, most of them anyway. I was referring to the actual phrase. It's called kneeling so why not just use that. "The players knelt during the anthem" seems fair enough to me as it is to use the phrase during a game of football.

Na Dub, taking a knee is different to kneeling. It's a widely used phrase here to differentiate from actual kneeling.

We took the Knee at the Orlando city v New England match last night...one guy took offence and threatened to punch mate, lol, aye mate we'll do the jokes.... never said another peep after told in no uncertain terms to ahem behave...