cman DanZero: [img.photobucket.com image 666x485]Will never happen.The Internet is not going to devolve into BBS-like systems.Its against its culture. The Internet is decentralized. Anyone who tries to subvert this will lose all their customers. They do push hard but they would never push that hard.

The next logical step would be consumers going secure VPN sites to encrypt. Then either service level (speed or measured data) would be adjusted according the plan, or providers would have to restrict vpn usage.

I have to give it to AT&T, they could create added value to American shareholders.

May I suggest that the water company also charge according to the purpose of the water used.For instance, washing your car, that would be at the lowest tier. Bathing, that would be set at higher tier. Water used for cooking and and drinking, that would be set at the highest tier.

Why are water companies not taking advantage of tiered price options. They could make so much more money for their shareholders.

I swear to god they already are doing this and have been violating "Net Neutrality" in my area for at least two years. I can sit around gaming, commenting on fark, facebooking, and doing research all day, and my DSL is running correctly. Mind you this is DSL on AT&T in the middle of podunk Arkansas, where my only other internet options are: 56k dial up (yeah really) or highly unreliable satellite service that goes out every time it gets cloudy outside. Anyway, the second I start streaming, be it YouTube, Netflix, or Amazon Prime, and suddenly, my DSL is a shaky, slow POS. It will literally slow down to the point that Netflix thinks it has dropped the server altogether. So, I call and talk to "customer service" and get some moron in India that does not even know where podunk, Arkansas IS and he tries to make like this is a hardware problem on my end...until I tell him it happens on my PC, on my PS 3, on my Wii, and on my Tivo with equal reliability. At which point, my phone call is conveniently "dropped" because, duh, Indian dude needs that job at the call center!

cman:There are too many companies in competition who have no problem investing in building their own computer networks.

When's the last time someone ran a new wire to your house? On the backend this is easy to route around (and big exchanges aren't interested in such a thing in the first place), but over the last mile there is no competition, and no other choice if you're unhappy with your provider.

I've been on AT&T as an ISP for the last half a year or so, and I can tell you it's been an absolute nightmare. Their technology sucks, there are constant intermittent outages or random unexplained lag, and despite having called the technicians to come out and look at it at least 5 times, all they've ever done is replace the modem, as if it'll work this time even though it didn't work last time.

As soon as our commitment with AT&T is up we're getting the fark off AT&T. Time Warner were assholes but at least their shiat worked.

profplump:cman: There are too many companies in competition who have no problem investing in building their own computer networks.

When's the last time someone ran a new wire to your house? On the backend this is easy to route around (and big exchanges aren't interested in such a thing in the first place), but over the last mile there is no competition, and no other choice if you're unhappy with your provider.

Yeah, look at Canada as an example. We went with a smaller company that didn't have data caps (all the majors do), but had to pay royalties for using Bell Canada's wires. It was all damned expensive.

cman : Anyone who tries to subvert this will lose all their customers.

To whom, exactly?

Most Americans have zero, one, or two realistic choices for internet access (I'll exclude bad jokes like HughesNet and going back to dialup). Personally, I have exactly one choice for "broadband", and by that word I mean only one tiny notch above satellite internet.

If my ISP decided to ban the entire world of Google (search, GMail, YouTube, etc), I couldn't do a damned thing about it except smile and apply the complimentary lube.

Smidge204:cman: There are too many companies in competition who have no problem investing in building their own computer networks. Any collusion to do something like that wont hold up under economic pressure

If I want internet speed faster than DSL, I have exactly two choices: Cablevision or Verizon.

I consider myself lucky for actually having a choice, as some places in the US don't.=Smidge=/I do love my FiOS.

Two choices aside from DSL is good. Most places have one choice, unless they spend a lot more and go with SkyWeb (satellite).

pla:cman : Anyone who tries to subvert this will lose all their customers.

To whom, exactly?

Most Americans have zero, one, or two realistic choices for internet access (I'll exclude bad jokes like HughesNet and going back to dialup). Personally, I have exactly one choice for "broadband", and by that word I mean only one tiny notch above satellite internet.

If my ISP decided to ban the entire world of Google (search, GMail, YouTube, etc), I couldn't do a damned thing about it except smile and apply the complimentary lube.

Enemabag Jones:I have to give it to AT&T, they could create added value to American shareholders.

May I suggest that the water company also charge according to the purpose of the water used.For instance, washing your car, that would be at the lowest tier. Bathing, that would be set at higher tier. Water used for cooking and and drinking, that would be set at the highest tier.

Why are water companies not taking advantage of tiered price options. They could make so much more money for their shareholders.

Our water company takes the amount you use in the winter and sets a baseline. Higher use in the summer is charged at a higher rate (e.g. watering the garden).

Teresaol31:I swear to god they already are doing this and have been violating "Net Neutrality" in my area for at least two years. I can sit around gaming, commenting on fark, facebooking, and doing research all day, and my DSL is running correctly. Mind you this is DSL on AT&T in the middle of podunk Arkansas, where my only other internet options are: 56k dial up (yeah really) or highly unreliable satellite service that goes out every time it gets cloudy outside. Anyway, the second I start streaming, be it YouTube, Netflix, or Amazon Prime, and suddenly, my DSL is a shaky, slow POS. It will literally slow down to the point that Netflix thinks it has dropped the server altogether. So, I call and talk to "customer service" and get some moron in India that does not even know where podunk, Arkansas IS and he tries to make like this is a hardware problem on my end...until I tell him it happens on my PC, on my PS 3, on my Wii, and on my Tivo with equal reliability. At which point, my phone call is conveniently "dropped" because, duh, Indian dude needs that job at the call center!

I also live in Podunk ArkansasLike have all the same issues you describe.But my saving grace is excellent cell service and I use mifi with little difficulty.

pla:cman : Anyone who tries to subvert this will lose all their customers.

To whom, exactly?

Most Americans have zero, one, or two realistic choices for internet access (I'll exclude bad jokes like HughesNet and going back to dialup). Personally, I have exactly one choice for "broadband", and by that word I mean only one tiny notch above satellite internet.

If my ISP decided to ban the entire world of Google (search, GMail, YouTube, etc), I couldn't do a damned thing about it except smile and apply the complimentary lube.

Teresaol31:I swear to god they already are doing this and have been violating "Net Neutrality" in my area for at least two years. I can sit around gaming, commenting on fark, facebooking, and doing research all day, and my DSL is running correctly. Mind you this is DSL on AT&T in the middle of podunk Arkansas, where my only other internet options are: 56k dial up (yeah really) or highly unreliable satellite service that goes out every time it gets cloudy outside. Anyway, the second I start streaming, be it YouTube, Netflix, or Amazon Prime, and suddenly, my DSL is a shaky, slow POS. It will literally slow down to the point that Netflix thinks it has dropped the server altogether. So, I call and talk to "customer service" and get some moron in India that does not even know where podunk, Arkansas IS and he tries to make like this is a hardware problem on my end...until I tell him it happens on my PC, on my PS 3, on my Wii, and on my Tivo with equal reliability. At which point, my phone call is conveniently "dropped" because, duh, Indian dude needs that job at the call center!

There was talk of some ISPs forging Reset (RST) packets to streams they didn't approve of.

If you were into that sort of thing, you could install Wireshark, a packet sniffer program, to catch that sort of thing. Often you can set your firewall to drop all inbound RST packets. Its probably not something a novice wants to deal with.

To shield your whole house you'd need a router with a real rule based firewall, like an access point reflashed with something like DD-WRT

Its against its culture. The Internet is decentralized. Anyone who tries to subvert this will lose all their customers. They do push hard but they would never push that hard.

unless all the providers colude to maximize profits and stick it to the consumers .like they do with cable. it will probably happen.

This is why I can't help but wonder if one of the companies is trying to patent it, wouldn't that prevent the other companies from following suit? Meaning if AT&T were to actually utilize their patent, and threaten to sue anyone who infringed upon it, they'd lose their clients to their competitors?

Enemabag Jones:I have to give it to AT&T, they could create added value to American shareholders.

May I suggest that the water company also charge according to the purpose of the water used.For instance, washing your car, that would be at the lowest tier. Bathing, that would be set at higher tier. Water used for cooking and and drinking, that would be set at the highest tier.

Why are water companies not taking advantage of tiered price options. They could make so much more money for their shareholders.

You can get tiered water, depending on your usage. Most of the time the water you pay for also includes a sewage fee, but if you also have a lawn/garden system and a pool that is not tied into the sewage system, you may not have to pay this fee on that. It may also be cheaper to have a well drilled on your property for some of these usages.

fusillade762:pla: cman : Anyone who tries to subvert this will lose all their customers.

To whom, exactly?

Most Americans have zero, one, or two realistic choices for internet access (I'll exclude bad jokes like HughesNet and going back to dialup). Personally, I have exactly one choice for "broadband", and by that word I mean only one tiny notch above satellite internet.

If my ISP decided to ban the entire world of Google (search, GMail, YouTube, etc), I couldn't do a damned thing about it except smile and apply the complimentary lube.

Same here. Where I live it's Comcast or nothing.

Here it's Charter or AT&T. There's a satellite company too, but it's useless for gaming or streaming.

Both AT&T and Charter have already been doing some of this, especially with filesharing programs. On Charter, I can stream multiple sources at once, but as soon as I activate any torrent-based filesharing program, my internet stops working and I have to reboot the modem. I can fix it with a proxy or VPN, but even then the connection is slowed by more than it should be.