Thursday, March 4, 2010

Do you like your witches char-grilled or soft-boiled?

I think one of the hardest parts about this process has been the unexpected personal attacks. If I had just left the church quietly ….. well, things would have been ‘easier’ for everyone… but what good is easy!. I could not do that. I had discovered something awful and I needed to speak up about it. So I have traversed this very vocal path and I have created a bit of a monster.

I have some friends who are still attending church but who remain steadfast in their friendship with me. They have told me that there is a fair amount of chatter going on at church about my blog and even about my character. One friend went as far as to say that they have been slandering me and that she is glad that we don’t live in the time of witch-trials.

This is all such a joke to me since, in my opinion, the widespread panic that has erupted came from within. I only passed on links to this blog to people who I thought would appreciate it, mostly non-Mormon friends. The Mormon friends who I sent it to were people who I thought would be interested in reading about how I was feeling and who would be able to read it objectively. Unfortunately I was wrong about a couple of my friends and they spread it like wildfire throughout our local church.

People have accused me of trying to make members hate the church. They have said that I am bitter and that I should leave the church alone. I never spread it throughout the congregation, the members managed to do that all on their own.

May I repeat an earlier statement of mine “Oh no, Maureen is being so mean to the Mormon church. Wah, wah!”

If the church were true what on earth (or the heavens) is there to fear from me! I am exercising my right to express my opinions. I feel cheated and deceived by the church. I feel that it perpetuates many harmful practices and I will continue to write about them.

I have not attacked any members. I wish that they would stop attacking me but I will continue to nurse my thick skin in anticipation of failure to treat me in a Christ-like manner. Disagree with my statements, argue with me about my opinions but please do not slander and demonize me.

If I know Mormons, and I think I could be considered qualified to know them... They're not going to read your blog. They'll pass on comments and lies about it's content, but they'll all be too afraid to see what you've actually written.

On the plus side of things, you're part of something bigger now. A global fraternity of people who've chosen reality and logic in place of superstition and myth. It's good to have you!

Do you know how hard and how... unlikely it is to do what you've done? To be indoctrinated from a baby, and then to look at it all, and say, "OMG, everyone has been wrong about everything all this time."

It is so much easier to go along with everyone. That's what they've done all their lives, and they can't understand why you're not. Why isn't the extra pressure putting her back in line? They can't figure it out! It always worked on them before! It must drive them nuts.

But now you're free. And there are a lot of us, and more all the time.

Aah, bliss! I think is time for me to really start to accept that I am free from all of that mess. Your comments here dcr, Koda and Daniel really help. Streuth, this was the whole reason I began blogging in the first place, a bit of therapy for me since I don't know anyone who specializes in exiting cults, even if I did I'm sure I couldn't afford them.

Let 'them' say what they will, I'll consider it entertainment from now on.

I like to imagine that if we/you had lived in the times of 'witch hunts' your test would have been the one where they push you off a cliff, and if you are innocent (of being a witch) you fall to an early, albeit noble death, and if you are guilty, you fly away to freedom - seems to be an apt way for a backwards 'organisation' like the LDS to discover and punish evil, don't you think!

Maureen, I think the whole "problem" started when you and "rockstar!" started slandering the Church on a well known social networking site where a lot of your friends and family were forced to see your OPINIONS! Remember that they are only opinions and cannot be classed as more correct or incorrect then anyone else's.

So when you began your rant about the Church, everyone connected to your profile that was an active member was basically spat in the face and told by you how stupid and ignorant they were (a great way to treat so called friends). Then one of your "anti" friends actually posted the link to this site, which is probably why so many people found out about it. So it was you who spread the knowledge of this site not one of your poor friends that you have blamed.

Firstly I don't recall Rockstar ever saying anything on fb about the church so I do wish people would stop including him when they really should just be addressing me.

You would have seen nothing on fb about this if No-talkie had not first posted a very rude message directed to me (and Rockstar, even though again it had very little to do with him) on the Wall, extremely public. So all of our friends could have seen that. Rockstar removed No-talkies post but not before a number of people had read it. No-talkie did not challenge any my comments here at blackbikini, they just ranted about 'standing up' to us and told me to be quiet.

A slander is the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputaion/(or in this case - an organisation). The only statements I made about the church on fb were that I believe it to be false. I never posted any slanderous updates. I never even updated people with a statement of my disbelief. My updates were: "Freedom of Speech People" , then 2 updates informing people that they could read about it at blackbikini since of course fb is not the best place for these discussions (No-talkie take note!). No-talkie dragged the issue to fb, I responded by making sure my 'real' friends had access to my side of the story.

Under the update "Freedom of ..." people asked what was wrong and I gave them a brief overview. In this comment I announced my disbelief and said this -Well when you have to unfuck the shitload of mindfuck that occured over 31 years it's a bit hard to 'leave it alone'. Oh the poor Mormon church, Maureen is being so mean to it, wah wah!!!!

So my statement of disbelief in the Mormon church cannot be classified slander, it is my honest belief. The things that I have written about the church are things that you can find accepted by the church as historically accurate (as accurate as an analysis of history can be!) I am trying to create more awareness of these issues since the church tries to keep a lid on them.

Again, I stand by my responses. I still to this day have not had the opportunity to discuss my differences with No-talkie.

As for spitting in the face of my friends with my rant - I think that you would be surprised that many, many friends have taken my comments as they were intended. They have been objective and kind. They are still my friends and I feel closer to them now as we have been through a tough experience but we have come through it with everyones opinions respected. Thank you to all of the liberal minded Mormons out there who continue to be my friend and support me through a very tough time in my life.

Anonymous - who is this 'one poor friend' that you say I have blamed? I said that I must have been wrong about a couple of my friends as they have spread it like wildfire throughout the church. Even if all of my friends only got the direct link from fb or from me then how did all of the other members get it? Obviously some of my friends passed it on. I'm pretty sure the Stake President and all of the Bishops are not on my list of friends, although I do like a good number of them ;)

When you stated that you have been "mind f'd" for the past 30 years, what you were actually saying was all your "friends" and family who are holding strong to their beliefs are currently being "mind f'd". If that isn't a spit in the face then I would hate to see what a real degrading comment might be.

Also a big high five for introducing your children to the life of alcohol and drugs, I'm sure it will turn out for the best! Even if you decided that the Church isn't for you, you had the best opportunity to keep yourself and your children away from one of the biggest cause of problems in society.

Are you sure you are as "free" as you think? It seems Daniel might be just as controlling as the Church seemed to be...

Derogatory? Yes... I believe that the mormon church is a cult that perpetuates awful lies and causes pain to many people.

The mindfuck comment was an expression of how I really felt. I'm pretty sure you know why I was so upset at the time.

Have you tried seeing things from my point of view? Imagine me reading the mindfuck comment as though you wrote it. I turn to Rockstar and say "Hey, ________ is pretty pissed at the church. That must be tough, you know ________ 's whole life must have just turned upside down. I wonder if we could help in any way".

Inconceivable!?

No, not really. Plenty of people managed to respond with concern and understanding, whether they were mormon or not.

I'm lost as to your comment about drugs/alcohol. It seems that you have decided that I am using them irresponsibly. You're beginning to sound quite preachy.

Am I not woman enough for you all yet! I left the church through my own discoveries and efforts. I alone made the decision to start this blog. Daniel has been a very helpful friend as have many other people. I see no puppet strings on my back.

Who gave you the right to judge those who don't follow the same cult-leader as yourself?

If you don't want to see what someone is posting on fb, unfriend them. Seems illogical to follow the 'offensive' blog just so you can rant and carry on at ppl who couldn't care less.

Maureen is many things- Kind, generous, spiritually beautiful etc etc... but I think the thing that scares you and other certain members of LDS (Hi No-Talkie!)most is her courage.

Ppl follow cults in this day and age because they are scared to live without them. Scared to make their own decisions about their values and beliefs, preferring to leave that responsibility (and blame) with their church of choice.

And at least when Maureen was an active member, she was a faithful, hard-working, generous (with her time) member. Whereas you 'serve' your church by slandering innocent ppl in your free time thereby bringing shame upon your church. Shame.

i'm just wondering what this person did that told you others are slandering you and your character at church and made the reference to witch trials. Just wondering if that person stands up for you at church and defends you?

I don't know. From what I know of this person I would guess that they would probably tell people to "lay off" if someone were going over-board with their comments. I'm not really fussed though. I am so glad to be out of there. It does seem crazy to me that a group of people who are supposed to be so kind and understanding have behaved so badly. I wonder how they rationalise it to themselves. They must know that they haven't done as Jesus would have them do.

i asked about the person at church defending you, because i have a fairly clear idea of who this person is and i just want to clear a few things up because she is making the rest of us out to be heretics at a witch trail. honestly there hasn't been that much talk about you, a little bit for the first week or so after everyone read the blog but then thats it. i only wanted to say this because i'm offended that this person is making herself out to be so tolerant and good and the rest of us, hmmm well what you think of us, we didn't all of a sudden go from people that you have known and liked for years to religious cult freaks who want to burn you at the stake. its not like that at all. and its not that your speaking out against the church, (for goodness sake people have been doing that forever and always will), or that you hurt our feelings by being so direct, i'm glad your direct. to me its that i feel that you now think that anybody who still chooses to be a part of this church are idiots that haven't discovered the truth like you have. i know you can probably think, well then if you don't like it then don't read what i write, i just had a read to see that you were doing o.k and i'm so glad to read the parts that talk about you being happy and for the first time in a long time at peace with everything. i'm so happy you feel this way. i just wanted to defend that bit about us at church, and that this person who is telling you how it is and what we say, is wrong, and that there is a very good chance that this person was the one who told the leaders in the ward to read your blog. i respect our past friendship enough to leave it alone and not discuss you with others and i wish you and your family every happiness in the future, and it seems to me that you guys are already a lot happier since you made the choice to stop coming, and i'm honestly happy for you. but please, please don't be so easy to think that everyone you know still at church that don't call you on the phone and tell you that they understand and there friendship is steadfast, are jerks.

Anonymous, I am finding it problematic to be having this interaction with you when you choose to remain anonymous. You clearly know me personally, and I you... but I don't know which of the many people whose face keeps popping up in my head you actually are. I am trying to keep that face blank. Do you have some key you could give me as to who you were to me without giving away your identity to other readers? or could you send me a message on fb?

Anyway, as for your comment.

I doubt that you would know who this person is as there are a couple of people who have relayed this type of info to me. It would be best for you not to try and guess who it is as that may harm your view of that person.

I am surprised that you think that you would know the extent of the talk that is going on about me. How are you privy to all conversations? I wrote my piece in response to quite serious info relayed to me. I hope you are right and that people have stopped talking but I doubt that you would know.

I cannot feel badly towards any of the members because I don't know who would have said hurtful things. I can only assume that everyone (other than those with whom I've had a direct run-in) does continue to speak fairly of me unless I hear otherwise.

You said - "for goodness sake people have been doing that forever..." - Please remember that I stated all along that I know that my blog is nothing new. I did not put my thoughts out there thinking I would cause some revolution. Most of the negative reactions I have had about the blog have been from people who think that I am trying to change their minds. I am just trying to undo the damage in my own head and I feel justified in sharing it.

I do not think that the members are idiots. I spent 30 years in the church and I look at that fact and feel angry that I was so blindly following something. I didn't check stuff out because we were taught not to and I regret being so blindly obedient. If you think that classifies as thinking current members are idiots, then it can only be to the extent that I thought I myself was an idiot. Rather, I believe that you are all being brainwashed and that includes the top leadership, I think that the prophet of the LDS church believes it all, he is not trying to trick anyone, the whole membership has been duped by Joseph Smith, IMO! but the people themselves are victims and I do not consider them to be idiots. You need to understand that I am citing my opinion, just as I am sure that you believe I have been deceived by something, I believe the same thing of you. And there we stand, no need to call each other idiots, we just differ in opinions.

Again, if reading this blog and others like it is offensive to you, then you're exactly right, don't read it. We (ha, I should probably just speak for myself) I... don't wish to hurt anyone, I just want to share my discoveries and new-found happiness with others, I want to share that message just as the church shares theirs.

I didn't "easily" think that everyone at church who hasn't called me on the phone is a jerk. I can tell you that I have received enough hateful messages to feel that the info passed on to me by a number of different people is somewhat representative of things. Very specifically I was called a bitch and this lovely message was passed on to a good number of people before I saw it. I could share other examples but I'll leave it there for now.

Suffice it to say that from where I stand I am shocked and appalled by the treatment that I have received at the hands of "good Christian people".

I will not think of anyone as a jerk until they give me good reason to.

your right, i can't know all the conversations that are going on. i'm sad that you were called that and obviously the people i associate with at church were not part of that or i wouldn't have written my past comment. and your also right about me making assumptions about who you are talking about, i can't know and i shouldn't draw conclusion in my head. i just didn't want you thinking that we're all bad, and all huge hypocrites, cause i really try hard not to be, however i can not say that about everyone who goes. as to who i am... lets say that your rihanna comment in a previous post was known to me before i read it here, and i was as appalled as you were when it was said.

thanks for that anonymous :) you could use Rihanna as your name here if you wanted... you could be her defender ;)

There are lots of Mormons that I like (there are some particularly excellent ones at feministmormonhousewives and other online communities) and I like to focus my thoughts on the ones that have been particularly understanding of my situation despite the harsh things that I have said about the church online. It is such a sensitive situation but I am glad that even though it has been difficult for some people to see it straight away, I think people are coming around to the reality that I feel very hurt by the church's ideology and that I am angry enough to want to talk about it very publicly.

I am a huge fan of the liberal mormons who see past the venom in my blog and see it for the pain that it is.

I feel so mad at the founders who IMO lied their butts off. I am very concerned about the control if info in the church. This is what I want to start writing more about e.g. the church publishes articles about early members of the church highlighting their virtues but omitting the fact that they were involved in polygamy with Joseph Smith. It is such a shock to find out all the extra bits of history that the church knows about but won't add to the lesson manuals or other publications. They lie by omission.

Aaaanyway, a bit off track there. I know that there are plenty of lovely people at church... I think I got a few people's blood boiling but I can weather that. I hope that it got people thinking because even if mormonism is what someone really wants I still think it is only healthy to be open to questioning it.