gja:here to help: gja: Sorry, going to disagree vehemently with you on this.

Of course you are.

But of course, you already knew that.Really though, do you think it is OK for either of these groups to go about spewing hate speech?I know I have to allow the KKK to have their say, but it is very hard for me to NOT beat them to a pulp. I cannot understand how anyone can be so animalistic and base. I want VERY much to break a Louisville Slugger over some of their heads. Their mindset wreaks of an inability to realize how they hurt society in a collective sense.

Joe Blowme:Sooooo what does that say about those neighborhoods and people residing in them? Not justifying either group, just pointing out how similar they are in their hatred.

/both groups suck and should be called out for their vile world views.

The difference being that the KKK was spawned out of a desire to remain dominant over the black community through intimidation and violence. The NBP was a direct reaction to that mindset. Would the NBP even exist without the KKK and like minded people? IDK but it seems unlikely and I highly doubt they'd be as radical or powerful if blacks had just been allowed to integrate without all the nonsense. We'd likely have a lot less thug culture too which has spread everywhere including the rich white burbs.

TuteTibiImperes:From what I understand the Klan has pretty much decentralized and is now made up of mostly independent factions. Apparently they don't do a whole lot more than recruit these days and only manage a meager turn out for parades and protests.

That was always ultimately what did them in. Each little group of local idiots was never really that well connected to the other local groups of idiots. They only ever had a semblance of national organization.

You have to understand, people that hateful are never going to get along in significantly large groups as each one thinks they know better.

Skinheads aren't rooted in Jamaica. They're rooted in marketing textbooks. That's why skinheads are invariably shallow people with no discernible identity other than the one that they bought into.

/but really, skinheads are rooted in England. The only reason Jamaica comes up is that mods liked rudeboy clothes and ska. It's like saying swing dance was rooted in Mexico because Chicanos wore zoot suits.

spman:Those exact same flyers were being passed out here in Connecticut a few weeks ago by some group calling themselves the United Klans of America. Now how does it work, is there still like a central KKK office handing out directives to local franchises, or is the Klan of 2013 just a bunch of white trash assholes wearing the Confederate Flag and adopting the letters KKK as though it gives their insanity some sort of credibility?

It seems to me like if you really wanted people to listen to your views on racial, ethnic, or religious superiority, and take them seriously, you should probably avoid using the Confederate Flag, the letters KKK, or the swastika altogether. These things all have a pretty negative conotation amongst the public, perhaps it's time to adopt a new symbol for your hate group? Maybe one that doesn't remind people of slavery, lynchings, or Adolf Hitler?

From what I understand the Klan has pretty much decentralized and is now made up of mostly independent factions. Apparently they don't do a whole lot more than recruit these days and only manage a meager turn out for parades and protests.

The goal of the fliers isn't to get you to listen to their views - they realize on some level that rational people aren't interested. They want to catch any die-hard racists they may have missed so that they can get them involved, and at the same time terrify and intimidate and minority families that happen to receive the message.

I'm saying that skinhead culture is largely (or was) based on Jamaican culture and it's hilarious a pro-white racist faction became the driving force.

Not the skinhead part of it. Purely working class white people, particularly ones prone to injury, and it was of a functional nature. The mods were the original ones all into the rudeboy clothes and ska. But really, it was being pushed on everyone. It was the Gangnam Style of 1970s England, but slightly more tolerable. The skinheads took it to a faster, angrier place than the mods were is all, and the advertisers had taken something with a truly dark nature--rudeboy chic--and sanitized it for the aristocrats. Meanwhile, in Jamaica, people were getting cut the f*ck up by kids dressed like that, so none of this is really ironic at all--except maybe the black part--which was gone before it started as far as skinheads were concerned. It was just their way of coopting the diaspora, as a defense mechanism, most likely.

gja:I didn't know of his predilection for the inane, ignore list duly updated.

Meh. He's not as bad as some but he does seem to like to stir the pot. I've never put anyone on ignore. Might be why I get so riled up sometimes but I'd rather see the dolts than not know WTF is going on.

I however seem to have been put on many an ignore list because I engage them on occasion... which is what happened here.

Duke was recent memory. There are indeed very nasty and racist dems as there are indeed decent repubs. There was no excuse for letting that arsehole anywhere near anything and that needs to be owned up to if higher ground is to be taken. Party affiliation means nothing if the person is a twat.

TheJoe03:It takes a real moran to think the KKK and the Black Panthers are on the same level. Who exactly have the Black Panthers lynched? What group of white people have the Black Panthers terrorized and disenfranchised? Some people need to get their heads out of their ass.

It's an excuse and a deflection and really had nothing to do with the article or thread.

Remember all the squeaking about those two BPs "intimidating" voters at that one polling station? That somehow excuses codifying voter suppression into law and invalidates the overwhelming support of BOB at the polls.

Head Nazi: White men! White women! The swastika is calling you. The sacred and ancient symbol of your race, since the beginning of time. The Jew is using The Black as muscle against you. And you are left there helpless. Well, what are you going to do about it, Whitey? Just sit there? Of course not! You are going to join with us. The members of the American Socialist White Peoples' Party. An organization of decent, law abiding white folk. Just like you!

gja:here to help: Let's create a world where true equality exists............

I am only 1 man, but I have passed on my values to my daughter. So I am doing all I really can at this point.Who's next? We ALL need to step up.

It'll come if we don't manage to destroy ourselves first. It pains me to say this but I don't think America was quite ready for its first black president. At the very least it probably shouldn't have happened in the midst of two wars and an economic meltdown. Far too much of a distraction and it has given the racists ways to disguise their true motivations. Now instead of getting pointed at and mocked people can relate to the REAL problems being brought up then get sucked into the racial derp as well stirring up the latent racists which in turn stirs up the minorities fears which stirs up the latent racists more and so on and so on.

That and Obama, while better than the alternatives, really ain't that great. I do think he tries and means well but his first term was weak, probably out of fear and his second term... well he seems to have just fallen in line with the same old sh*t.

There is one valid point in that article. Racists almost never admit they're racist. They're more likely to say something like "You're the REAL racists!" or "I'm just trying to protect the white race" or "I'm just saying what everybody's thinking."

A racist who said "I'm racist and proud" would be a refreshing change, but not likely to happen.

gja:I get annoyed at ANY pseudo-militant group who choose to wear military style outfits. I suppose it is from having buried so many friends and colleagues who wore that cloth. I have no way of viewing it in a dispassionate way. I think it is irreverent and impudent.

I'm not certain but I believe that was a response to harassment at the hands of uniformed representatives of the state. Essentially "Look. We can play dress up too!". Kind of a powerful point in the sense of does a uniform truly make you an authority? Now it's just the garb of the movement and the point is likely lost on the new guys... as are many of the original ideals. Meet the new boss...

gja:here to help: gja: Sorry, going to disagree vehemently with you on this.

Of course you are.

But of course, you already knew that.Really though, do you think it is OK for either of these groups to go about spewing hate speech?I know I have to allow the KKK to have their say, but it is very hard for me to NOT beat them to a pulp. I cannot understand how anyone can be so animalistic and base. I want VERY much to break a Louisville Slugger over some of their heads. Their mindset wreaks of an inability to realize how they hurt society in a collective sense.

Of course not and I have not defended them... merely pointed out why they exist in the first place. The sixties were a very frustrating time for many African Americans. They were being given their rights... finally, yet there were those who were doing everything they could undermine those rights and actually physically harm the community. There was also the influx of cheap heroin into the ghettos (which was provided by the powers that be to destabilize and de-legitimize the growing uppitiness of those trying exercise those rights) that was causing some serious crime problems. The Panthers were the response. At first they were rather idealistic and almost laudable in their goals but became more militant and racist very quickly.

So really if you look at it from that angle what would you have done? We have many people shouting from the rooftops they need to protect themselves from a corrupt and oppressive government these days. Well that community in that particular point in time faced some of the harshest version of those things the country has ever seen... (and I mean having legitimate rights trampled on, before that those rights did not exist for blacks). If they were white it would almost be a right winger's wet dream. Taking control of one's own destiny and resisting those who would deny them their inalienable rights as American citizens.

Pretty powerful stuff, right? Easy to get drawn into. But as always potentially good movements and ideas tend to get hijacked by those with an agenda or a need to act out their own anger/hatred.

So I say to you... can we TRULY equate the Klan with the Panthers in a historical sense? Can we truly say that both entities have been equally as toxic for the US?

I agree that racism of any kind is horrible and needs to be stopped but one of these things is not (exactly) like the other. Let's create a world where true equality exists and then groups like the Panthers would become irrelevant. Until that happens there will always be people willing to fill the role of "protector" and "revolutionary" and people desperate enough to follow them.

trippycrazy12:gja: here to help: gja: Sorry, going to disagree vehemently with you on this.

Of course you are.

But of course, you already knew that.Really though, do you think it is OK for either of these groups to go about spewing hate speech?I know I have to allow the KKK to have their say, but it is very hard for me to NOT beat them to a pulp. I cannot understand how anyone can be so animalistic and base. I want VERY much to break a Louisville Slugger over some of their heads. Their mindset wreaks of an inability to realize how they hurt society in a collective sense.

Even the original Panthers can't stand them.

I wasn't writing about the BP/NBP as a source/target of my anger. Just the KKK. I do feel both groups have no place in a civilized society as they tend to make people focus on the symptoms of the problem rather than the root of the problem.A lack of respect for others.Many ills in our world can be traced back to this problem. Respect of others solves so many problem.

I get annoyed at ANY pseudo-militant group who choose to wear military style outfits. I suppose it is from having buried so many friends and colleagues who wore that cloth. I have no way of viewing it in a dispassionate way. I think it is irreverent and impudent.

After all, if a racist group sets up a neighborhood watch, patrols looking for "those people", stalks them, chases them when they run and then confronts them in the dark of the night... well, the zim trial showed us dead men tell no tales and the victor writes the history.

It's perfectly legal.

Unfortunately, yes. Are fear we are going to see a lot more Zimmerman'ing in the future. When one of these dum dums tries to pull it off in a state that doesn't have the over the top, loosely worded self defense laws like Florida does though the fail will be epic.

When my son was about two or three, we came across a gathering in the town square of this city where we had come for a christmas festival. When we got closer we realized it was Klanta Klaus: Red Klan robe with fur trim, elves in white and green Klan robes, etc. They were taking pictures just like a mall Santa--so we got one with my kid on his lap. My kid is Hispanic....my husband had to stand a little out of the way, but we still got a kick out of putting my dirty beaner spawn on Klanta's lap. We were chanting "You touched a Mexican!" as we left (hurriedly left).

Idiots. I doubt if they would be able to manage a neighborhood watch program. They'd probably burn it all down trying to get the cross lit....

Joe Blowme:My point was just what i said, no different than having the Black Panthers patroling.

/racist is as racist does//racissst

It had nothing to do with anything. You just wanted to pull the old "b-b-but THEY do it too!"

And actually there is unfortunately more of a reason to have the NBP patrolling neighborhoods than there is with the KKK. That reason being that poor black communities do not get appropriate police service and are more likely to be harassed by the police than helped by them. It ain't right but that's how they got their in. Fix the trust issues and maybe those communities wouldn't feel the need to rely on the Panthers to clean up their neighborhoods.

Tumunga:gilgigamesh: I expected the wake of the Zimmerman verdict would result in a resurgence for the Klan.

So, the klan likes Hispanics now. Got it.

Don't be obtuse, the Zimmerman verdict and everything about the trial (minus Zim actually being a white guy) was a victory for them. It played to their confirmation bias that there are dangerous young black men out attacking law abiding citizens and that the media and government are both complicit in demonizing those who would lawfully defend themselves. When Zimmerman was found not guilty it was like their "IT'S HAPPENING" moment and you saw them (here on Fark too) start to come out of the woodwork with more bold racist sentiments not related to the trial itself.

No one is trying to make a guilt by association argument that just because you're a Zimmerman supporter you're in league with the Klan or inherently racist yourself, but if you can't see why it put the jump back in white supremacist's steps you're being silly.

PaulRB:Bucky Katt: The KKK appeals only to neatherthals. Any racist with a hint of intelligence prefers to be more mainstream. Like working for the Heritage Foundation or as a staffer for a southern senator.

Or working for Rand Paul.

Sorry, just realized Rand Paul was a southern senator (I still find that shocking).

Back in the day they were infiltrated to the very top by the producers of the Superman radio program to gather some facts for a Superman vs the Klan radio play. They used the real names and passwords and such. Difficulty level: 3/10

So the Klan changed up everything. Their security was still childishly easy to penetrate.

Have you seen the types of people the Klan attracts? There may be a few at the top that may be of average to above average intelligence, but the majority of their members have always been idiots. You have to be pretty dumb not to realize what they preach is nonsense. For these types of people you have to keep things pretty simple.

Hmm, I'm sensing some negativity towards these guys, maybe they could do with a rebranding?Change the name to something less charged, maybe K³ would help.As for the robes, well I'm sure they're an absolute nightmare to keep clean even with modern detergents so I propose they all wear Speedos, cover themselves in butter and take overdose quantities of fortified psychedelics and have at it in an empty hot-tub with some poisonous snake helmets and hot-coals enemas...Oh, that got weird. I need to rethink my proposal.

Back in the day they were infiltrated to the very top by the producers of the Superman radio program to gather some facts for a Superman vs the Klan radio play. They used the real names and passwords and such. Difficulty level: 3/10

So the Klan changed up everything. Their security was still childishly easy to penetrate.

TuteTibiImperes:From what I understand the Klan has pretty much decentralized and is now made up of mostly independent factions. Apparently they don't do a whole lot more than recruit these days and only manage a meager turn out for parades and protests.

I haven't seen a Klansman since I lived in Alabama in the 90s (when they still held regular parades and stuff, probably still do knowing Alabama) but as I remember even then it was just random groups of hicks picking up the name and pulling out their daddy's robes to play dressup in the garage with their buddies. I don't think they have a national leader or anything.

Racist idiots, another reason why I support the second amendment. If they pulled that shiat here I swear to God I'd arm and pay to have my Mexican-American neighbors trained to use firearms. A real neighborhood watch. You're not stringing up or even intimidating my friends.

spman:It seems to me like if you really wanted people to listen to your views on racial, ethnic, or religious superiority, and take them seriously, you should probably avoid using the Confederate Flag, the letters KKK, or the swastika altogether. These things all have a pretty negative conotation amongst the public, perhaps it's time to adopt a new symbol for your hate group? Maybe one that doesn't remind people of slavery, lynchings, or Adolf Hitler?

Those are pretty powerful marketing tools for like-minded individuals.

Those exact same flyers were being passed out here in Connecticut a few weeks ago by some group calling themselves the United Klans of America. Now how does it work, is there still like a central KKK office handing out directives to local franchises, or is the Klan of 2013 just a bunch of white trash assholes wearing the Confederate Flag and adopting the letters KKK as though it gives their insanity some sort of credibility?

It seems to me like if you really wanted people to listen to your views on racial, ethnic, or religious superiority, and take them seriously, you should probably avoid using the Confederate Flag, the letters KKK, or the swastika altogether. These things all have a pretty negative conotation amongst the public, perhaps it's time to adopt a new symbol for your hate group? Maybe one that doesn't remind people of slavery, lynchings, or Adolf Hitler?