But church PR managed to slip in one little LDS'ism, by giving "decreased
construction costs" as one reason for the price reduction. They just can't
help themselves!

More Info from the Salt Lake Tribune

the Salt
Lake Tribune

Updated Jul 8,
2010 10:42AM

To cope with the sagging real-estate market, The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has lowered prices on a large condo project
in its City Creek development in downtown Salt Lake City.

Under construction at 35 E. 100 South, The Regent is
set for completion in mid- to late 2011. The 20-story project, which will have
150 units, was originally priced starting from around $300,000 to as much as
$1.7 million. The church said prices now start in the mid-$100,000s.

The condos are part of the massive City Creek
development in downtown Salt Lake City, which also will feature retail shops,
restaurants, offices and about 100 apartment units.

The church’s pricing change didn’t surprise Bill Heiner,
president of the Salt Lake Board of Realtors. Seven out of 10 homes sold in May
in Salt Lake County were priced under $250,000, he said, adding that demand
drops off sharply in the higher price ranges

Decreased construction costs? You're right, they can't
help themselves. They were liars and murderers from the beginning- it part
of their nature.

Subject:

Tax Break Incentive to take a loss?

Date:

Jul 07 23:19

Author:

Taddlywog

I don't know... just think a drop to half price might
have other motivation. I really don't thing they NEED to sell any of that
real estate. But if they have nothing to loose (because they tax payers are
paying for the losses), why not. That's just smart business and propagates
an poor church image.

Subject:

Harmons!

Date:

Jul 08 00:11

Author:

RetiredGuy

This is changing the topic, but I remember the
Harmon's store from my brief stay in Utah in 1982. What a place! you could
get a sofa, motor oil, groceries, guns and ammo, and puppies. Now they will
have an upscale store in the holy mall.

Subject:

The responses to the Trib article include a couple of good ones...

Date:

Jul 08 00:50

Author:

Adult of god

Here's one of them:

German engineering says:
Anyone who knows anything about real estate could have seen this coming. The
huge issue that the article doesn't discuss is that the mortgage investment
market for luxury condos is national and international and is in
exponentially worse shape than the housing mortgage market. High-end condos
have taken the biggest valuation drop, appraisers are even less generous in
appraising them (according to their new procedures), and investors are even
more reticent to fund loans--all of which creates qualification standards
that are nearly impossible to meet.

Thus, to sell high-end condos, you generally need to find buyers who meet
two criteria: (1) are willing to pay entirely in cash and actually have that
kind of cash, (2) are willing to immediately lose a huge chunk of this
equity the moment they close on the property. Because of the combination of
#1 and #2, you essentially need to target stupid people with lots of money,
or people with so much money and other motivations for buying the condo that
they don't care it's a net loss (which to me, is still stupid but not
necessarily to someone who is willing to pay anything to live by the SLC
temple, for example).

The literal result of all of this is that there are HUNDREDS of high-end
condos towers in this country that have been built are are completely empty
or virtually empty. Moreover, of the successfully built older luxury condo
projects, there are literally tens of thousands of individual units that are
empty and unsellable. This has destroyed the funding market for these
projects.

Orem mid-town village is a classic example of this happening locally. Yes,
Larry Myler was a complete idiot for putting a high-end condo project on
state street in Orem, which is by far the worst part of Utah county, if not
Utah (and thus only 4 people were stupid enough to purchase with cash and
are the only owner residents); but the bigger issue is that they had all the
units reserved by people who were excited about the project and willing to
take out loans, but not ONE of them could get a loan and close. It really
was a cool project with very nice designs and amenities (despite the
ridiculously stupid location). However, the high-end condo market is
essentially black-listed for loans.

People will have the same loan problem with City Creek, but I don't think it
will sit empty, because the LDS Church won't let that happen. They'll drop
prices and essentially subsidize the units to make sure they're filled
(which they already are doing, so that already it's already a terrible
business deal). There's no way they'll let them sit empty--it would be a PR
disaster. There should also be enough impressionable retired people with
money who think that living next to the SLC temple is worth throwing away
most of their retirement savings for.

City Creek retail could be a little trickier. National (and local) retail is
a disaster and they need national retailers to make it work. Worse, the
retailers they're courting just aren't compelling enough to where the mall
will be a special retail draw in an already overbuilt market--it's the same
mix that you see anywhere in the US, and the square footage they're
providing is already smaller than several existing Utah malls. It's not like
it's some kind of mega-mall with roller coasters and night clubs. There's
already Nordstrom all over Utah, building another one isn't exciting. Thus,
the mall portion could be a bigger money loser than the condo portion.

I'm not sure how much the LDS church will want to subsidize others'
for-profit retail operations. They have to do so to a degree (already are)
but there's a point at which they'd probably scale some of it back or turn
it into church offices or more visitor center attractions. Or maybe they
could turn half of it into a massive Deseret Book / Church distribution
center :)?

Subject:

this $3 billion+ dollar mall has been so egregiously wrong....

Date:

Jul 08 08:24

from the start that any honest-thinking Mormon should
be able to easily see how uninspired the prophets, seers, and revelators
are.

Subject:

honest thinking is the key word here...can you be a mormon and fit
that catagory??/nt

Subject:

..or the profit will make a spinning subtle appeal to members..

Date:

Jul 08 10:44

Author:

Steven

to shop at the Jeezus mall for extra blessings, much
like his recent "twice a tithe" talk in general conference.

Subject:

What is this talk, of which you speak, love a link, pleeeeease. nt

Subject:

Re: What is this talk, of which you speak, love a link, pleeeeease.
nt

Date:

Jul 08 17:23

"To know that a poor man consistently and cheerfully
gave at least twice a tenth to the Lord gave one a clearer insight into the
true meaning of tithing. To see him minister to the hungered and take in the
stranger made one know that he did it as he would do to the Master. To pray
with him and partake of his confidence of divine intercession was to
experience a new medium of communication."

I believe the "business savvy" of the Mormon Church is another myth .
. .

Date:

Jul 08 11:11

Author:

furtherlightandroughage

like the myth that it is the fastest growing church.
As an organization, it has been in financial trouble more of its history
than it has not. My understanding is it wasn't until the 1960s, in the
aftermath of David O. McKay's disastrous building program, that the LDS
Church began to get itself on a firm financial footing with the help of N.
Eldon Tanner.

Perhaps there is someone well-versed in the Mormon Church's financial
history could provide some information and context.

Subject:

So if I were rich and stupid enough to buy into this --

Date:

Jul 08 11:48

Author:

Laban's Head

Would I be allowed to make my morning coffee and sip
my evening wine while living there? Could I smoke on my balcony?

Subject:

Would your TBM friend believe TSSC's own Church News and Deseret
News? (quotes and links)

Date:

Jul 25 02:35

Author:

FreeAtLast

Oct. 2/07 Church News online report: "The project,
estimated at $1 billion, will cover three downtown blocks." [ now $4
Billion July 2010]

Deseret News June 25, 2010 report: "Church officials have not disclosed the
project's cost, but estimates have ranged between $1 billion and $3
billion."

"City Creek Reserve Inc., a development arm of the LDS Church, and partner
Taubman Centers Inc. of Bloomfield Hills, Mich., have been redeveloping
three blocks of downtown Salt Lake City — including the former locations of
Crossroads Plaza and ZCMI Center — into a mix of residential, retail and
office space."

Nov. 4/09 Des. News report: "City Creek Reserve is spending more than $1
million a day on construction, and the project ultimately will cost around
$3 billion, said Chris Redgrave, a KSL executive who also chairs the Salt
Lake Chamber's Can-Do Coalition, which is looking for ways to jump-start the
downtown economy."

Even if Latter-day Saints believe the 'lite' sum of 'just' $1B in the Church
News report (doesn't jive with Salt Lake Tribune or other reports) in
Oct./07, where did LD$ Inc. get an extra $2-3 BILLION for the project? Spare
change in the Church Office Building cookie jar?!

"In briefing the Salt Lake City Council on the project's progress, Bishop
Burton said "good planning" and recycled materials have helped keep the
project under budget. Officials have not disclosed the cost of the project,
though some have estimated the LDS Church will spend as much as $3 billion
by the time the center opens in 2012." (ref.
http://www.mormontimes.com/article/1207/Green-building-efforts-at-City-Creek)

Subject:

Re: Would your TBM friend believe TSSC's own Church News and Deseret
News? (quotes and links)

Date:

Jul 25 03:12

Author:

New to the Board

Thanks for the info. I have sent it on to her , but
I'm not sanguine that she'll pull her head out of -er, the sand.

I wonder if this is her own interpretation or if this is what's being taught
at the ward level.

I'm torn between really pounding this issue and just letting it go. For the
sake of the friendship, I'll probably back off. I just hope that we've
planted a tiny seed....Thanks again

Subject:

The Sunday, coffee and alcohol issue aside...

Date:

Jul 24 14:22

Author:

Dagny

Here's what's weird about that quote to me...

Why would they want to use a Church Title for the guy attending the store
opening ceremony? Do they think they are dedicating a temple or something?

I'm surprised they are making the blending of the mall and the church so
obvious. Usually they keep a layer of deniablility between themselves and
their non-religious activities.

I would have guessed they would have had a city official rather than a
church official at store openings.

Subject:

Uhmm Dagny . . . [clears throat]

Date:

Jul 24 15:32

Author:

Shummy

The dedication of a cathedral of Gawd is always worthy
of a Sanhedrin's blessing yeah be it even a cathedral of commerce.

Commerce is pleasing unto the Lawrd.

Hath it ever been otherwise since that rascally cousin of mine turned over
that first shovel full of uh, dirt?

The sheep are what matter most to the suits these days and luckily they doan
need no steenking plausible deniability.

Subject:

Because they don't want their own members to boycott their
development. nt

Subject:

Re: A little more on City Creek

Date:

Jul 24 18:15

Author:

AxelDC

Matthew 16:26

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his
own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Subject:

LDS church shoots itself in both feet and the groin!

Date:

Jul 24 18:50

Author:

Matt

>"The LDS Church, which counsels its members
against drinking alcohol, has stated it is not opposed to responsible
consumption of alcoholic beverages by informed adults."

Does this not imply, therefore, that Mormons are NOT informed adults?

Subject:

The question you should have asked is...

Date:

Jul 24 18:59

Author:

Elder Berry

> Does this not imply, therefore, that Mormons are
NOT informed adults?

...Do Mormons leaders endorse a certain kind of alcohol?

Of course not!

Subject:

How about Deseret Rum?...

Date:

Jul 24 19:06

Author:

Bob T

I think the Morg and Mormons control a considerable
amount of sugar production. (Perhaps why U.S. has never normalized relations
with Cuba. Bay of Pigs was long ago)

Subject:

No, the question that should have been asked is...

Date:

Jul 25 01:50

Author:

Ultra TBM Mega Lord

How can I get closer to the Church and thus develop a
closer relationship with Christ.

By selling liquor, but not drinking it yourself. Ta da!

Subject:

Well, the question Marriot should ask is what other "service" can I
offer to increase my tihtes? nt

Subject:

Yeah, it doesn't sound like they're responsible enough either.

Date:

Jul 24 19:03

Author:

Makurosu

lol nice catch, Matt. :-)

Subject:

Re: LDS church shoots itself in both feet and the groin!

Date:

Jul 24 22:43

Author:

AxelDC

Fascinating that the LDS Church excuses selling liquor
by stating that it's the consumer that is the sinner, not the seller. The
seller is merely catering to the whims of the all-accountable consumer.

Governments, on the other hand, typically go after the supplier of
controlled substances. In many countries, such as the UK, carrying and
consuming small amounts of marijuana is legal, but the seller can be
arrested. This is diametrically opposite to the LDS Church's view.

I think the LDS position can be summed up with:
We thank thee, oh God, for our profits!

If the church really thought that, then why do they impose such strong laws
regarding alcohol?

That also implies that the Mormon church does not consider their followers
or anyone in their base state informed adults or they would have normal laws
other states.

Subject:

A little more on City Creek

Date:

Jul 24 12:34

Author:

Eric K

"...celebrating the opening ceremony of the new Harmon's
store at City Creek, attended by Presiding Bishop David Burton. This new
stores opening hours 'will be the same as the chains other locations, 6a.m.
to midnight, seven days a week' and will contain 'a coffee and Italian
gelato bar'."

It appears the mall will be open on Sundays. I thought they announced
previously it would not be open on Sundays. I am just trying to get the
facts straight, if that is possible in Mormonism.

Subject:

The Sunday, coffee and alcohol issue aside...

Date:

Jul 24 14:22

Author:

Dagny

Here's what's weird about that quote to me...

Why would they want to use a Church Title for the guy attending the store
opening ceremony? Do they think they are dedicating a temple or something?

I'm surprised they are making the blending of the mall and the church so
obvious. Usually they keep a layer of deniability between themselves and
their non-religious activities.

I would have guessed they would have had a city official rather than a
church official at store openings.

Related Topics

The original article:
Mormon403. The Mormon Mall - City Creek to cost over $4 Billion
dollars.

The following sections are updates as of August 2010.

A.) Expensive Feature: The name sake of the project
is the City Creek that runs down City Creek Canyon to the Jordan River. In
1909 the creek was placed in an underground conduit down North Temple Street
from outside of Memory Grove to west of the State Fairpark where the water exits
into the Jordan River.
The Mormon church decided that a water feature was necessary for the City Creek
Project. And only “true” City Creek Water will fit the bill. So the water
features in the project will have water pumped up to the feature, run along an
artificial “creek” and into a water pond where fish and other aquatic creatures
and plants will be on display.
Mormon403a

B.) The cost of the project is now estimated to approach
$4 Billion Dollars. This is the most expensive mall in the US.
Mormon403b [This data of $4 billion is unconfirmed, but believed to
be reliable based on past experience from trusted Mormon insiders. The
Mormon Church does not open its books for public scrutiny - not even to its
members.]