Wow Charles. That's an amazing video in so many ways. My father was serving at Pearl Harbor at that time as a civilian after the attacks till the end of the war. It's really freaky and also wonderful to think he could be in some of those scenes. Thank you doesn't begin to express my feelings.

imagine the sense of relief, after 3 1/2 years of brutal fighting and sacrifice...what a buzz that must have been, a melancholy joy of some sort...the harshest, most difficult war the US will ever fight, and it was finally over

Meanwhile, back on the last thread, someone is defending this cartoon as being not that far removed from the reality of Israeli-American designs on the poor Arab world. And other someones are updinging that comment.

Meanwhile, back on the last thread, someone is defending this cartoon as being not that far removed from the reality of Israeli-American designs on the poor Arab world. And other someones are updinging that comment.

Meanwhile, back on the last thread, someone is defending this cartoon as being not that far removed from the reality of Israeli-American designs on the poor Arab world. And other someones are updinging that comment.

I used to think I knew what to expect here, but not anymore.

And interesting, but I posed 3 questions on the reaction to that cartoon, and crickets...

And on a side note... well, one more night substituting for the overnight checker/stocker... this part time job is turning more and more into a 3/4 time job... I'm thinking the Self-Scan could be a little more busy tonight since it is right before a holiday monday, and we also get a lot of tourist and travelers headed through the mountains...

I hope Self-Scan is busier tonight than last night... the more time I have to spend taking care of the 6 Self-Scan stations, the less time I have to spend with the "long shore men" night crew.

If anyone is near the Conifer Colorado King Soopers (Krogers) store tonight, stop in for a Starbucks and a chat.

The ironic part is most people have no idea that "Victoria Day" is actually the Queen's official Canadian Birthday. I love this country. Give the people an excuse to take a day off and drink and no one questions it.

I was a green replacement in one of the divisions scheduled to make the initial invasion of the Japanese Homeland.

When we got word of the surrender even though the regiment had a beer ration that day, there was no real celebration. We were just very quiet realizing that perhaps we might get home and not face the 80% casualty we were told that were expected in the invasion. There was one shot I heard that evening and it was from an adjacent company, not ours.

The ironic part is most people have no idea that "Victoria Day" is actually the Queen's official Canadian Birthday. I love this country. Give the people an excuse to take a day off and drink and no one questions it.

I was a green replacement in one of the divisions scheduled to make the initial invasion of the Japanese Homeland.

When we got word of the surrender even though the regiment had a beer ration that day, there was no real celebration. We were just very quiet realizing that perhaps we might get home and not face the 80% casualty we were told that were expected in the invasion. There was one shot I heard that evening and it was from an adjacent company, not ours.

Thank you for your service. I'm glad that you and many others were spared that meatgrinder.

I was a green replacement in one of the divisions scheduled to make the initial invasion of the Japanese Homeland.

When we got word of the surrender even though the regiment had a beer ration that day, there was no real celebration. We were just very quiet realizing that perhaps we might get home and not face the 80% casualty we were told that were expected in the invasion. There was one shot I heard that evening and it was from an adjacent company, not ours.

See, that's what a healthy cultural divide looks like. I respect the fact that Americans got drunk this week, y'all seem to respect that we did it last weekend. If only the rest of the world was so understanding...

imagine the sense of relief, after 3 1/2 years of brutal fighting and sacrifice...what a buzz that must have been, a melancholy joy of some sort...the harshest, most difficult war the US will ever fight, and it was finally over

Sadly, we don't know that. The future could hold all sorts of evils, especially if we make big mistakes.

Sadly, we don't know that. The future could hold all sorts of evils, especially if we make big mistakes.

Updinged, but I can't see the world having a conflict both that large in terms of scale, and that long. I'm from the school of thought that says the next big one will be measured in months at the most...

I adore you! Conifer, the real home of South Park of course, the home of Parker and Stone, with all the Conifer "charm" transposed to a cartoon series and placed in the fictional Colorado mountain town of "South Park."

Of course, the actual South Park is not a town, but a mountain meadow about 60 mile further southwest of here.

It is a beautiful sight to look out the large entrance of the supermarket and see the outline of the mountains and the stars and clouds during the night...

But I prefer staying on the day shift/evening shift... these forays into overnights are few and far between, but they do happen. I'd rather see the outline of the mountains and the sky in daylight.

And in other news, the Stalkers are obsessing over the Correlator Tool Charles used to ferret out so many of their sockpuppets. Naturally, they could keep on topic and rapidly veered off into the fever swamp of schoolyard insults aimed at Charles, Iceweasel and Killgore. Three people who clearly live in the Stalkers' heads.

See, that's what a healthy cultural divide looks like. I respect the fact that Americans got drunk this week, y'all seem to respect that we did it last weekend. If only the rest of the world was so understanding...

I adore you! Conifer, the real home of South Park of course, the home of Parker and Stone, with all the Conifer "charm" transposed to a cartoon series and placed in the fictional Colorado mountain town of "South Park."

Of course, the actual South Park is not a town, but a mountain meadow about 60 mile further southwest of here.

It is a beautiful sight to look out the large entrance of the supermarket and see the outline of the mountains and the stars and clouds during the night...

But I prefer staying on the day shift/evening shift... these forays into overnights are few and far between, but they do happen. I'd rather see the outline of the mountains and the sky in daylight.

Good evening, Lizards!
Thank you to all members, past and present, of our military for the freedoms we too easily take for granted. A special thank you for all those who made the greatest sacrifice that we enjoy today.

Meanwhile, back on the last thread, someone is defending this cartoon as being not that far removed from the reality of Israeli-American designs on the poor Arab world. And other someones are updinging that comment.

There is a group of guys that fly WW2 trainers around the SF Valley every year for veterans holidays. I'll have the long lens on the 7d and hope to catch them. AT-6 aircraft. Quite a sight all these planes in tight formation.

There is a group of guys that fly WW2 trainers around the SF Valley every year for veterans holidays. I'll have the long lens on the 7d and hope to catch them. AT-6 aircraft. Quite a sight all these planes in tight formation.

All three of the biplanes from my local airport, were out cruising around today.
There's a red, yellow, and a blue one. You can hear the "different" motor sound & run out to see them. I think they're fun!

I'll bet. That was all cables and pulleys to control that big fighter. Built near my home here, in Burbank. Famous for getting Yamamato as I recall. If you look at the 1939 prototype, without the big cooler inlets under the propellers-Really sleek.

I am a woman, watch me pour
Libations you cannot afford!
And I'll drink no cheap booze just to pretend
That I like cheap beer or you;
I'll have Maker's Mark thank you!
I consume the very best right to the end!

Yes, I've had wine, but it seems so pretentious...
Yes, I had beer, but it isn't worth the fuss,
If I had to, I'd out-drink all of you!

OK, I've got to go try to finish this book I've been trying to read. I only read in the evenings, and I fall asleep. Tonight I can get an earlier than usual start, and maybe get a couple of chapters read before I fall asleep. I hope.

Lap dances will have to wait 'til tomorrow. Sorry!
Y'all have a good evening!

Hey Everybody, Happy Sunday to you all! I haven't been around much. Life has been keeping me busy and I'm not going to stay for long. I'm tired and its past my bed time but I just wanted to pop in for a moment to say I hope you all have a happy Memorial Day and salute all you Veterans out there and the men and women who are serving today I salute you and Thank You for your service to our Country. :-)

Hey Everybody, Happy Sunday to you all! I haven't been around much. Life has been keeping me busy and I'm not going to stay for long. I'm tired and its past my bed time but I just wanted to pop in for a moment to say I hope you all have a happy Memorial Day and salute all you Veterans out there and the men and women who are serving today I salute you and Thank You for your service to our Country. :-)

You cut RWC off from the good things until he let you use the computer, right? Fess up.
///

LOL! How'd you guess? I want an ipad for my birthday in july so I can sit and blog too when he's hogging the computer. Don't think its going to happen but I can always hope. I've missed all of you guys too.

Humanitarian Aid Transferred from Israel to Gaza in 2010, as of May 8, 2010:

# In 2010, 230,690 tons of humanitarian aid has been transferred from Israel into Gaza through the Israel-Gaza goods crossings
# More than 6.5 million gallons (25 million liters) of heavy duty diesel fuel for Gaza's power station has been transferred from Israel to Gaza
# More than 12,000 tons of cooking oil has been transferred into Gaza
# 6,354 Gazans have entered Israel on medical grounds
# 86 truckloads of flowers and strawberries have been exported from Gaza into Israel

So if they want to get aid to Gaza, they have a way of doing it without breaking through a military zone.

Your more than welcome! I have other pics I plan to put up in the future, I'm obsessed with flowers as my 14 miniature rose bushes can attest to. Keep in mind I live in an apartment here! You folks will probably get sick of all the pics I'm going to be posting in the future.

Humanitarian Aid Transferred from Israel to Gaza in 2010, as of May 8, 2010:

# In 2010, 230,690 tons of humanitarian aid has been transferred from Israel into Gaza through the Israel-Gaza goods crossings
# More than 6.5 million gallons (25 million liters) of heavy duty diesel fuel for Gaza's power station has been transferred from Israel to Gaza
# More than 12,000 tons of cooking oil has been transferred into Gaza
# 6,354 Gazans have entered Israel on medical grounds
# 86 truckloads of flowers and strawberries have been exported from Gaza into Israel

So if they want to get aid to Gaza, they have a way of doing it without breaking through a military zone.

This is going to be another screeching cry from the masses about hostile Israel. They were told to turn back, why didn't they? Will they print the amount of aid Israel gives Gaza or the reasons for the blockade?

Well folks my battery's runnin low and I need to go recharge. Another busy day tomorrow planned and I need my beauty sleep so I'm going to say good night! I'll pop back in in a day or so. Until then my friends Keep Laughing and Be Well! :-)

It's a myth, and demonstrably so - no one's from there, to the best of my knowledge; it's like Luxembourg in that regard; when you add in the fact that both places aren't in America at all, you see immediately that they're part of one vast, uninhabited waste.

I was just thinking to myself the other day that these SOB's would try to provoke a boarding of their ship or ships by Israeli forces. There seemed a certain inevitability to the thing.

Yes, indeed.

A little more from my link to put it in proper perspective:

Although Israel controls Gaza's borders, Hamas still succeeds in smuggling into the territory dozens of tons of standard explosives and other rocket building materials, scores of Grad rockets with ranges of 25 miles (40km), hundreds of mortar shells, dozens of anti-tank weapons and a stockpile of anti-aircraft missiles.

Israel is currently restricting the import of cement and other construction materials into Gaza because Hamas has used such supplies to construct military bunkers. During the Israel-Hamas ceasefire, June to December 2008, the head of the Israeli Security Agency (Shabak) Yuval Diskin told the Israeli cabinet that Hamas was using cement transferred into Gaza to construct military bunkers. During Operation Cast Lead, Israel's defensive operation aimed at halting rocket fire from Gaza, Israeli forces discovered numerous bunkers used as weapons depots and fighting positions.

Not me, this took me by surprise. I figured they would work out a compromise with the Israelis to land at an Israeli port.

Coming on top of the report of the israeli dolphin diesels off the iranian coast, and in conjunction with the quixotic (apologies to LVQ) proposal to ensure a nuke-free mideast by damning israel, it seemed events were aligned for just this sort of thing. Maximum damage to Israel's image.

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish police blocked dozens of stone-throwing protesters who tried to storm the Israeli Consulate in Istanbul over reports of an Israeli attack on at least one aid ship in international waters on Monday, news channels reported.

I think (not sure) that would be kodachrome. The same process that sadly was dropped by Kodak recently. Chrome they tell me is a harsh process to develop the film. But the film lasts like nothing else. Truly archival.

Ronen Solomon, who searches information in the public domain for companies, told Haaretz he found references to a ship called Al Hamad on three different Web sites after the initial reports of the Israeli raid in Syria on September 6. These included the official sites of Syria's Tartous Port and the Egyptian Transportation Ministry.

Two of the three sites said the ship was flying a North Korean flag, and the third site reported it was flying a South Korean flag.

Haaretz confirmed Solomon's report.

Saturday, the Washington Post published an article citing an American Mideast expert, who said a shipment that arrived in Syria three days before the alleged Israel Air Forces strike was labeled as cement, but that Israel believed it carried nuclear equipment.

Following the Washington Post report, Solomon returned to the three sites, and discovered that all mentions of the North Korean flag on Al Hamad had been deleted, and that the ship's flag was now registered as 'unknown.'

The official site of Syria's Tartous Port, [Link: www.tartousport.com,...] had reported that Al Hamad, flying a North Korean flag and carrying cement, entered the port on September 3. Solomon stressed that several North Korean ships docked at Tartous during August.

Coming on top of the report of the israeli dolphin diesels off the iranian coast, and in conjunction with the quixotic (apologies to LVQ) proposal to ensure a nuke-free mideast by damning israel, it seemed events were aligned for just this sort of thing. Maximum damage to Israel's image.

I hope and pray that there were no Israeli casualties.
Erdogan the ugly Islamist anti-Semitic Turk seems to have been pulling the strings on this one.

I was under the impression that this "flotilla" was more of a human rights based group (with misguided beliefs etc.) but not supported by any of the terrorist or leadership groups in Gaza or Iran, right?

No broad brushing - "you support them, so you are terrorists etc." We had this argument downstairs.

Palestine.—Various accounts we have seen, especially in the Sabbath Recorder, which reports the proceedings of a small colony of Seven-day Baptists, lately established at Artos, near Bethlehem Judah, state, that notwithstanding the deplorable state of lawlessness, which characterizes the administration of public affairs in the distant Turkish provinces, and in spite of the sufferings, to which all but Mussulmans are subjected, the country begins to improve, and especially Jaffa and Beiruth are arising as it were out of their ruins. If ever there were security for life and property, against the violence of Turks and Arabs, we should soon hear that poverty now so grievous, had given place to industry and affluence. The Jewish Gazette reports in a letter from Jerusalem, dated in March, that last autumn a Portuguese Jew, who was well acquainted with the language and customs of the Arabs, was for some years engaged in making a support for his family, by selling dry goods. Lately his lifeless body was found in a cistern; the supposed murderer has been arrested; and the reason assigned for this deed of horror is; that the murderer was indebted to the deceased, and he slew him because he demanded his money. It is argued hence, that if life is so little secure in Jerusalem, how can it be safe in the country. Still it is to be hoped that, with the increase of the commercial importance of Palestine, by the passage, through the southern part of it of large convoys of merchandise coming from India, as no doubt it will be before long when the Egyptian rail road is finished, there will also be greater security, and hence greater prosperity likewise. One thing is certain, that Palestine is capable of the highest improvement, if the people and means were only at hand, to undertake an active culture of the soil

I was under the impression that this "flotilla" was more of a human rights based group (with misguided beliefs etc.) but not supported by any of the terrorist or leadership groups in Gaza or Iran, right?

No broad brushing - "you support them, so you are terrorists etc." We had this argument downstairs.

I was under the impression that this "flotilla" was more of a human rights based group (with misguided beliefs etc.) but not supported by any of the terrorist or leadership groups in Gaza or Iran, right?

No broad brushing - "you support them, so you are terrorists etc." We had this argument downstairs.

I was under the impression that this "flotilla" was more of a human rights based group (with misguided beliefs etc.) but not supported by any of the terrorist or leadership groups in Gaza or Iran, right?

No broad brushing - "you support them, so you are terrorists etc." We had this argument downstairs.

Sorry I was gonna respond to you there to tell you to come here! lol

I find this interesting...

Gilad Schalit's family and supporters asked the "activists" if they would visit their son, held in Gaza 4 years now, and bring aid to him as well. They promised to support their efforts to dock if they did. They promptly refused.

"We are disappointed that the organizers of the flotilla have refused to also provide basic humanitarian assistance to our son, who has been held in Gaza four years in contradiction of international law," said the Schalit family.

This was no little boat. They are carrying around 750 activists, including diplomats and journalists, as well as about 10,000 tons of supplies. Israel has to check all of that, including those people for its own safety.

Quite the contrary. All through my life personally, and all that I've learned about the world, tells me that "impressions" are quite important. Indeed, the advertising industry is built upon it, as well as the world of celebrity and media.

Quite the contrary. All through my life personally, and all that I've learned about the world, tells me that "impressions" are quite important. Indeed, the advertising industry is built upon it, as well as the world of celebrity and media.

Quite the contrary. All through my life personally, and all that I've learned about the world, tells me that "impressions" are quite important. Indeed, the advertising industry is built upon it, as well as the world of celebrity and media.

As I expect you are well aware, I was referring not to the undisputed value of propoganda, but rather to the blogger's attempt to peddle an "impression" as fact.

When you launch that many rockets at Israel, and constantly claim you are at war (and hold prisoners), why the hell do you think Israel will let you waltz right in to a war zone with tons of "supplies"?

When I was last logged on this morning I mentioned that I was going out for a nice Maryland eastern shore ride with my bike club. It was a good one, and I did 35 miles, the most I've done this year. I'm gonna be sore tomorrow but it was fun.

Free Gaza claims their attorney in Haifa - hell of a resistance org, with legal representation in supposedly occupied territory - informs them that 10 are dead. That's it so far; whole things sounds like one news agency feeding off the reports of activists listening to the same news agencies as the rest of us.

I was under the impression that this "flotilla" was more of a human rights based group (with misguided beliefs etc.) but not supported by any of the terrorist or leadership groups in Gaza or Iran, right?

No broad brushing - "you support them, so you are terrorists etc." We had this argument downstairs.

They are welcome guests of Hamas, since they provide free PR for them. They're not 'supported' by them, AFAIK, in the sense of getting any financial support, the relationship goes the other way.

When I was last logged on this morning I mentioned that I was going out for a nice Maryland eastern shore ride with my bike club. It was a good one, and I did 35 miles, the most I've done this year. I'm gonna be sore tomorrow but it was fun.

If anyone did get shot and died I'll wait for an official autopsy report.

These folks are the type that would shoot their own people for the propaganda.

I was watching live footage from a Turkish site after the reports of deaths started coming in, and did not see anything that seemed to indicate there had been injuries. Did see choppers and small military boats. So far I haven't seen any footage at all of the dead or injured, and there's a hell of a lot of streaming happening.

Waiting to see. I know what I want to have happened, but we'll wait and see.

I was watching live footage from a Turkish site after the reports of deaths started coming in, and did not see anything that seemed to indicate there had been injuries. Did see choppers and small military boats. So far I haven't seen any footage at all of the dead or injured, and there's a hell of a lot of streaming happening.

Waiting to see. I know what I want to have happened, but we'll wait and see.

Same here. The video was being looped. Didn't see any injuries except for some people being dragged down stairs and one blown out window. Then it was the same 3 "commandos" on what looked like the bow or the stern.

"The IDF searched the boats for arms immediately after the takeover. The soldiers were forced to use tear gas after they were attacked with knives and cudgels, putting their lives in danger. Unofficial reports that ten persons have been killed and another ten wounded were admitted to Rambam Hospital in Haifa were changed by the Arab television station Al Jazeera to two killed and four wounded. The IDF has not corroborated any numbers."

At the Cabinet meeting of 22 March 2009, the Government of Israel instructed the bodies dealing with the matter to enable the entry - without restriction - of foodstuffs to the residents of Gaza from all relevant sources, after it has been verified that they are indeed foodstuffs, and this in the framework of the humanitarian efforts. The Government directed that the foregoing be scrupulously implemented.

Essential food products including meat, chicken and fish, grains and legumes, fresh vegetables, dairy products, oil, flour, salt and sugar, in addition to animal feed, hygiene products, clothing and medical supplies are among the goods that are regularly delivered to Gaza.

Note: Gas for domestic use (cooking and heating) is supplied according to Palestinian demand and is not subject to any limitation by Israel. After the fuel depot at Nahal Oz was repeatedly attacked by Palestinian terrorists from the Gaza Strip, it was forced to limit its operations. The Kerem Shalom crossing has since been adapted to the transfer of fuel. In addition, a new gas line with double the capacity to transfer gas was built.

So please tell me about the big ole bad Israelis.

It goes on to list how much aid Gaza has received monthly since 2009. I think I'm sending this to the Whitehouse.

The first sip was mild but flavorful. It was not too sweet nor wheaty but just enough to let you know you’ve got a weissbier in your hand. Light on the wheat, the liquid was light on the palate and that made it very easy to swallow. The remaining tastes reminded me that this would be a perfect summer quencher.

I was drilling down towards the bottom of the glass, all the time thinking about how this Erdinger would taste alongside a Hacker-Pschorr, my favorite so far. This beer would surely give it a run for its money. I’d venture to say that Erdinger was as tasty as it needed to be versus Hacker-Pschorr’s punch-in-tonsils flavor. The more I sipped the more I leaned towards this one. Mild, tasty, smooth, delicious. The head, however, may cause some impatient drinkers some heartache at the beginning. For the second bottleful, I opted for a bigger (22-oz. impatience) glass.

There were no malts, as such, to taste, no hops at the swallow. The wheat taste was just enough to give a sense of the flavor. It was just a nice laid-back easy drinker, perfect for any palate. I’d suspect that the ladies would like this one as well. The wheatiness of this beer, albeit present in full regalia, is somehow muted and blended into an almost perfect taste. This was a lemonade of beers without the lemon or any fruit whatsoever. Delicious. But not quite wheaty as one would like it.

This beer is a great wheat beer with nothing extra or special thrown in. Nicely sweet, a bit tangy and a lot of flavor. It’s a real treat for the taste buds. At 5.3% ABV, one could easily knock back the majority of the sixpack on a hot summer day.

"The IDF searched the boats for arms immediately after the takeover. The soldiers were forced to use tear gas after they were attacked with knives and cudgels, putting their lives in danger. Unofficial reports that ten persons have been killed and another ten wounded were admitted to Rambam Hospital in Haifa were changed by the Arab television station Al Jazeera to two killed and four wounded. The IDF has not corroborated any numbers."

Free Gaza claims their attorney in Haifa - hell of a resistance org, with legal representation in supposedly occupied territory - informs them that 10 are dead. That's it so far; whole things sounds like one news agency feeding off the reports of activists listening to the same news agencies as the rest of us.

Yeah, I suspect that the attorney in Haifa is reading the same newsfeed we are.

Last night a very cute 23 year old girl asked us to play a song for her birthday. It wasn't Happy Birthday, it was A Real Mother For Ya, by Johnny Guitar Watson. A song we do! I was amazed that a 23 year old would even know about Johnny Guitar Watson. There's hope for some of these kids.

On a related note, one of the vessels in the convoy was the MV Rachel CorrieSaint Pancake, which was itself a salvaged wreck of a freighter found off the irish coast in an earlier, more honorable incarnation.

It needed major repairs. A ship that grounds needs a drydock to be put back to rights and those are expensive.

Didn't run aground; ships master just abandoned it and the crew after they docked and off-loaded in ireland. A not-unheard-of maneuver from dirtbag captains; they made their money, and don't pay the crew, and devil take the hindmost.

Didn't run aground; ships master just abandoned it and the crew after they docked and off-loaded in Ireland. A not-unheard-of maneuver from dirtbag captains; they made their money, and don't pay the crew, and devil take the hindmost.

Someone like that should have his bank accounts frozen and their contents used to pay the crew.

Didn't run aground; ships master just abandoned it and the crew after they docked and off-loaded in ireland. A not-unheard-of maneuver from dirtbag captains; they made their money, and don't pay the crew, and devil take the hindmost.

We had one of those in the Gulf of mexico not that long ago; a pakistani crew on a freighter outta fuel, outta water, and outta luck. captain took the motor launch and left them, saying he was going to the port to make arrangements, and never came back.

Others, too, but again, nothing from any source I'm willing to accept as fact. Another mentioned a German and Swedish MP. And then there are reports that Cyrpus denied some from joining the flotilla after it had left.

Pulling rank? Lol, I doubt you've spent as many years in as many "European" countries as have I, nor followed as closely their political evolution.

Looks like you didn't learn that much from the time you spent there, or you wouldn't be making sweeping generalization about "European" MPs across 30+ nation states with very different political systems.

Looks like you didn't learn that much from the time you spent there, or you wouldn't be making sweeping generalization about "European" MPs across 30+ nation states with very different political systems.

Heh, you're making a sweeping generalisation and have not demonstrated to me that you are familiar with the subject at hand. For example, you say """European" MPs across 30+ nation states", yet there are only 27 nation states in the European Union.

Heh, you're making a sweeping generalisation and have not demonstrated to me that you are familiar with the subject at hand. For example, you say """European" MPs across 30+ nation states", yet there are only 27 nation states in the European Union.

Yes, because Europe!=European Union. European refers to the former, which, by the way, is something non-Europeans tend to forget more easily.

Yes, because Europe!=European Union. European refers to the former, which, by the way, is something non-Europeans tend to forget more easily.

Yes, just like America means the United States, not Canada and Mexico. There is such a thing as the European Union now, which nation states are you referring to? I'll let you know if I include them in the "soft as a grape" group.

When one speaks of the "European" MPs and MEPs with derision it always alludes to the patsies in the European Union.

If you were referring to the MEP (members of the European Parliament, not European MPs), that's slightly more defensible. But it's weird, considering that the European MPs we were referring to in the thread were national MPs from European governments.

Can you read a bit of Spanish/Portuguese? Here's an example of a "soft grape":
[Link: aeiou.expresso.pt...]

A Portuguese MP went on a hunger strike to pass his proposals in the budget, my friend. I'm not really proud of it, but a soft grape he ain't.

Good lord man, you are not going to pull the old exception fallacy? There are always individuals who show some integrity. Notice I said "the average "European" member of the political class is soft as a grape and entirely out of touch with what their constituents consider important."

Yes, just like America means the United States, not Canada and Mexico. There is such a thing as the European Union now, which nation states are you referring to? I'll let you know if I include them in the "soft as a grape" group.

The more accurate correspondent would be between NAFTA and North America (which would be more accurate if there were North American countries which weren't part of NAFTA).

Good lord man, you are not going to pull the old exception fallacy? There are always individuals who show some integrity. Notice I said "the average "European" member of the political class is soft as a grape and entirely out of touch with what their constituents consider important."

I assume the clowns on board the boats are from that "average" group.

Dude, the claim

The average "European" member of the political class is soft as a grape and entirely out of touch with what their constituents consider important

Is for you to demonstrate, not for me to refute. I gave you an extreme example. There are plenty of more moderate ones. Since you're the one talking about averages, please present any meaningful data that supports you claim.

If you were referring to the MEP (members of the European Parliament, not European MPs), that's slightly more defensible. But it's weird, considering that the European MPs we were referring to in the thread were national MPs from European governments.

The average "European" member of the political class is soft as a grape and entirely out of touch with what their constituents consider important

Is for you to demonstrate, not for me to refute. I gave you an extreme example. There are plenty of more moderate ones. Since you're the one talking about averages, please present any meaningful data that supports you claim.

Well, ideally you would provide a testable definition of a soft grape. And why would the MPs on the flotilla represent the average of the national MPs of their own countries, let alone the other European countries who didn't elect them?

Well, ideally you would provide a testable definition of a soft grape. And why would the MPs on the flotilla represent the average of the national MPs of their own countries, let alone the other European countries who didn't elect them?

You want a testable definition of a soft grape? I'll have to consult my attorney for that.

The real crime is that Gaza is an open-air prison with many dead and many others suffering. This part is not news, however, if it turns out that Americans or Europeans have been killed, now that is a story...at least to be reported in Europe and the UK. May be briefly mentioned in the US and then promptly buried. One only need recall how former President Carter was viciously slandered and then minimized when he spoke out on the issue.

I invoke Teh non-Morrison Jim! Could you get a bit closer to the right-wing stereotype of a liberal, please?