Interesting article for Christmas. Lately it seems The Economist publishes regular criticisms of religion. Not all readers are atheists. Regardless, the article in the paragraph about modern biblical scholarship on Jesus and Paul never actually cites a real Scripture verse in their summation of their teaching on the subject as posed to the mythological views of hell and brimstone.

In Matthew's Gospel, here is an example of Jesus' teaching on the judgment in which he does refer to hell not only as a place of darkness and weeping, but as eternal fire:

"For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; (Matthew 25:29, 30, 41 NASB)

i wish u believers would get ur mind right!!! can u deny reality - the greatest "GOD"??? its all in ur mind babe .... think about it - heaven is a place on earth - we mfs of atheists at least dont mfs LUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL c{;-))

I think it's important to note that all extant descriptions of Hell have been made by supporters of the _other_ eternal destination (Heaven). And let's face it, when you have 90-plus percent market share, why bother to advertise?

"In Hell, stretched over many acres, lay the Titans who defied Zeus in Greek myth—Prometheus, Tantalus, Sisyphus and the rest".

Oh dear.

Neither Sisyphus nor Tantalus were Titans - both were mortals kings.

Prometheus was indeed a Titan, but the site of his punishment was Mount Kazbek in the Caucasus, not Tartarus. And while his punishment was indeed intended by a vindictive Zeus to be eternal, he was eventually freed by the hero Herakles.

How disapointing to see The Economist make such, 'erm, TITANIC errors.

Hell is a huge and complex entity and therefore it's important to understand its organization, to know how it works.

It's like the Secretaries, ministers and Departments of a huge and complex government.There are different choirs and hierarchies.

Satan is the monarch and supreme ruler, the Lord of Hell, of course, and Beelzebub is his crown prince. In his capacity as vice-president or prime minister of Hell, Beelzebub supervises the other hierarchies, but only in cases involving a need for higher authority, otherwise the chain of command is respected and each order and sub-order is governed by its leader. There are three orders: seraphim, querubim and thrones.

Examples:

Carreau, Prince of Powers, rules the second hierarchy and while Beelzebub himself tempts proud kings, presidents, multimillionaires and tycoons, men who have power, he hardens human hearts and causes misery through mercilesness.

Belias (not Belial), Prince of Virtues, rules the third hierarchy, and causes the downfall of men through arrogance, etc.

Balberith, as Prince of Cherubim (first hierarchy) fosters the idea of murder in men's minds; his minion demons cause mortals to be quarrelsome, blasphemous and generally disagreeable. This can be seen sometimes in these discussion fora.

Astaroth, Prince of Thrones (also first hierarchy) specializes in sloth, laziness, idleness. His demons cause discouragement, lassitude, indifference and irresponsibility among men. I confess, I served Astaroth for a while.

Verrine, a lord of thrones under Astaroth—a perfect example of a subaltern of Hell—rules a sub-order of lesser (somewhat like novices) demons who specialize in bad temper, impatience, angry outbursts and sudden hot antagonisms.

Sonneillon, another lesser lord of a sub-order of thrones, under Astaroth, tempts men (and women) to sin through the wickedness of hatred against those who disagree with them. There are a few of these lesser demons here as well. Sometimes their presence is obvious, you can feel it.

The Incubi and Succubi are special commandos.

&c (it's a long and complex hierarchy).

Once you know and understand its basic organization and hierarchy, Hell becomes a less fearful place.

"Hell hardly hurts any more" (except when it is put into an article that is tedious, poorly timed-being the holiday season-and very much so a rant). In everyday parlance "('What the hell are you doing?'[-What your editor should have said to you]), it is merely a bark"...that last line is pretty much how I feel about these piece.

The fact that you would print such an article at Christmas that the great majority of Americans celebrate demonstrates a lack of sensitivity that is "beyond belief". You have sunk to a new low! And as far as hell is concerned, even though your ego won't let you admit even the possibility, trust me "You will believe it when you get there!"

What a thoroughly ridiculous comment. The fact that it will soon be Christmas has nothing to do with it. The Ecomonist always publishes additional articles in this edition - it is not as if it focused entirely on Christianity anyway. When is a good time to discuss theories on hell exactly - mid to late July perhaps? Your threat to the writer that they will go to hell is truly repugnant. That is "beyond belief".

Not only did it focus on Christianity, it insulted Christianity and Christians everywhere. But, your comments demonstrate that you would not understand the import of my comments. And, the fact that it is Christmas, a holy time of year, has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT. Your insensitivity is beyond belief. Obviously, this is beyond you!

"For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; (Matthew 25:29, 30, 41 NASB)Notice hell was prepared for Lucifer and the angels that rebelled against God. God doesn't send anyone to hell. Man chooses hell when he rejects the love of God, sent to this earth to pay for our sins so we wouldn't have to. You see God is a just and sin must be atoned for through the shedding of blood. This is the reasson Christ came and took our punishment so we would not have to. When you reject God's provission of salvation through Jesus , you choose the alternative. Hell was created not for man but for the one who rebelled. Man is still in rebellion today and does not want to follow God's word. Remember Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. 1Peter 3:8 Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous;[a] 9 not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing. 10 For

“He who would love life
And see good days,
Let him refrain his tongue from evil,
And his lips from speaking deceit.
11 Let him turn away from evil and do good;
Let him seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their prayers;
But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”[b]

Suffering for Right and Wrong
13 And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good? 14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you are blessed. “And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.”[c] 15 But sanctify the Lord God[d] in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 16 having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. 17 For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

Christ’s Suffering and Ours
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

The world is becoming rather fed up with the Christian persecution complex. Your religion has persecuted everyone else for over 1500 years, often in the cruelest and most violent ways, completely at odds with its own teaching.

Jesus wasn't even born in December! Every Christian scholar agrees that if he existed at all then he was born in the spring! The church only chose late December for Christmas a few centuries ago to try to wipe out the celebration of ancient pagan midwinter festivals in Northern Europe.

If you can't handle a few historical FACTS about your religion then that's your problem, but don't tell the rest of us what we can and can't say. Otherwise me might start point out the lies, hypocrisy and nastiness espoused by your ridiculous religion.

Obviously you did not read what I wrote take a look again.(Notice hell was prepared for Lucifer and the angels that rebelled against God. God doesn't send anyone to hell. Man chooses hell when he rejects the love of God, sent to this earth to pay for our sins so we wouldn't have to. You see God is a just God and sin must be atoned for through the shedding of blood. This is the reasson Christ came and took our punishment so we would not have to. When you reject God's provission of salvation through Jesus , you choose the alternative. Hell was created not for man but for the one who rebelled. Man is still in rebellion today and does not want to follow God's word.)
Don't let mans condemnation keep you from understanding there is a God that loved you so much he sent his son to die a brutal death on the cross to pay for your sins. Look at this scripture and see what Jesus said to the woman cought in adultery.He wrote the sins of the people accusing her on the groound, and notice they all walked away after they saw Jesus look at them and write their sins on the ground. Jhn 8:3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group

Jhn 8:4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.

Jhn 8:5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?"

Jhn 8:6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.

Jhn 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

Jhn 8:8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

Jhn 8:9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.

Jhn 8:10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

Jhn 8:11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Jhn 8:12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Try large-scale systemic slaughter and torture, the likes of which we never saw again until Hitler's rise. Any Christian (or Muslim) claiming victimization for the faith is at best ignorant and at worst evil. To be completely honest, only Jews can really reasonably make the claim that they have been historically the victims of their religion rather than the tormentors, although given recent history that seems to be changing for many of them.

This excellent article is appropriate at any time of the year especially at Christmas.

It serves as a reminder to the majority Christians who celebrate Christmas worldwide, the reason for the season.

An infinitely loving God taking on our humanity to redeem us from sin as John 3:16] tells us: “For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. I would also add here that we live what we believe by our works - Faith and Works.

As for political correctness and a distorted sense of sensitivity and charity, they have no place when a truth is proclaimed even though the bearer of that truth may not know or deny the same truth they tell.

I second this. This article makes me feel like I just read a chapter from The Idiot's Guide to Religion. This article in ten minutes has made me lose nearly all confidence in the Economist's integrity.

Twisted Nick, Level 5 Supervisor in Hell is offering an alternative view to his apprentice Unhinged.

“I would like to remind you of an alternative view of Hell which is due to a lay theologian called C. S. Lewis, and it is rooted in the idea of a hell-on-Earth consisting of endless miles of suburbia where nothing ever works and nothing is the way people want it to be. The only problem with it is that when the sinners die they won’t find the real Hell’s torments so bad after all, and we don’t want that either. So what we need is a balance between the heaven that’s beyond the art of the possible and the hell they can get all too easily, and that way preserve the awfulness of the rewards of sin for the afterlife.

“Lewis’s idea was, as I said, of an endless plain of suburbia where everyone lived in semi-detacheds with the neighbour from Hell on the other side. And it rains. Cold rain all the time, the kind that gets down the back of your neck and soaks you where you can’t reach. It’s perpetual maritime winter so no snow, just rain – and mud – and cold. Every now and then you’ll see a fleeting glimpse of the sun through endless clouds, just to remind you it’s there, but not enough to cheer you. There’s always a railway line nearby and an airport close enough that you see huge airliners roaring barely overhead most hours of the day and night. Lots of people seem to be flying here and there but no-one knows who they are or where they’re going. Lots of trains too, with similarly anonymous faces aboard, similarly unknown destinations, and lots of noise for a long time as each train passes. In each of these houses lives a man, a woman, their 2.3 children and a narky little dog who bites everyone, that is when it isn’t being sick all over the place. The man, as often as not, will be a drunk who beats his wife who takes her revenge by poisoning his food. Alternatively the wife will be a hectoring bitch who has emasculated her husband long ago, yet he takes his revenge - or tries to - with the overblown floozie round the corner. She in turn sends poison-pen letters to her faux-lover’s wife. The roof leaks, the plumbing ditto, none of the mod. cons work properly and the repairmen are all crooks and cowboys. The garden is a disaster, the kids are always screaming, the dog hates going out in the wet yet there is a twice-daily ritual of the master of the house taking the dog of the house for a walk neither of them want, in fact both detest. Oh yes, and frequent, unpredictable power-cuts - and lots and lots of industrial and domestic pollution. You get the picture.

“And every now and then you can enrol on a one-day bus tour of heaven which is, in fact, part of the torment because, however nice and bucolic C.S. Lewis’ version of heaven was, his version of Hell awaited everyone on the bus at the end of the tour. In Lewis’ version people whom God has decided have had enough are allowed to get off the bus and stay there. Of course, in reality our defining God is the medieval God of fire and brimstone, and forgiveness isn’t in his nature. Even so, I think we allowed one human, a Mr Danté Alighieri as I recall, a trip round our Hell so he could spread word of its awfulness around the would-be sinners above. Didn’t seem to make too much of a difference, as I recall. No matter.

Unhinged: “But, Master, this isn’t really all that – well Hellish, is it. No screams or tortures, no endless pain and repentance.”

“Well, the key point about our Hell is the absolute feeling of helpless hopelessness about it. And that applied to Lewis’ Hell as well. You couldn’t derive pleasure from anything - anything at all - and you could never escape it outside those day trips. In short it was equally oppressive but maybe it took longer to get to you because you weren’t screaming in agony or fear or whatever. But everything would be tainted. You would have perpetual money worries. Your bank would be endlessly threatening foreclosure and ignoring your entreaties. Your partner would snore in bed and keep you awake, the milk would be sour, the porridge lumpy, the alarm would wake you up long before you were ready for it. Everybody would be bad-tempered and shout at one another but somehow never manage to get in those oh-so-satisfying rejoinders. Outside there would be a perpetual traffic jam and the pavements would be impassable because they were so muddy or waterlogged. You could never get to the shops but somehow there would always be food, never enough, but always plenty of whatever you disliked the most. Booze for the drunks would taste like drain cleaner and burn all the way down, yet it was booze, they had to have it, ahead of turning into useless, embarrassing or evil idiots, and later still, truly depressing hangovers. No pleasures. The TV, when it works at all, just shows endless grainy black and white repetitions of the Queen’s 1953 coronation. And the coffee would always be cold, with a skin on it.”

As the mythology of Hell has gradually evapourated from its own inherent contraditions, (its only reason for existance was keep the religious terrified and obedient to the so-called 'spiritual leaders'), some people seemed to have been determined to recreate it on Earth, though fortunately of more temporary duration.
The lesson perhaps is to distrust all those who say that some group or other is beyond any respect for human rights and does not merit them.

The catechism of the Catholic Church refers to hell, here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2O.HTM. Christ himself told as about the eternal fire. So hell is an integrant part of any coherent Catholic's beliefs. There are about 1 billion Catholics in the world. How then can you affirm that only fundamentalist Christians believe in hell?

Where does it say that the catechism is infallible or necessary? The catechism contains certain principles that if you reject, the you reject the Catholic faith; but the truth of the catechism is not one of those principles. In fact catechisms are routinely rendered obsolete and replaced with updated versions. Or are you saying that there were no principles of the Catholic faith before the CCC was released in 1992? It's just a single document among millions of theological tracts.

Catholics don't have to believe ANYTHING. And, that's the problem. Many of them don't. Like the rest of empty-headed Americans who are so lost that they will never find themselves or save themselves from themselves.. If a catholic doesn't believe the catechism, he is not catholic. No matter what he calls himself.

I won't bother replying to such an inflammatory comment - it seems to me to be self-refuting enough anyway. But I will just add that the fact that the author of this article refers unquestioningly to the online Catholic Encyclopedia which was published more than a century ago shows just how cursory and uninformed this article is.

Any ideology based on unproven claims meets the definition of absurdity, including today's end-of-the-world prediction. From a religious perspective, the Church father Tertullian is alleged to have said, "I believe because it is absurd," although what he really said was "I believe [in the resurrection of Christ] because it is impossible." -- De Carne Christi V, 4

It's called the doctrine of fideism, the belief that faith is apart from, and allegedly superior to, reason. The Latin root of the word means "out of tune," and "deaf," referring to people who reject consensual reality, preferring their own beliefs (think Bigfoot). My favorite expression of it is in the Epistle to the Hebrews, 11:1, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

Since the existence of any hell or hells cannot be proved, belief in such a place or places is indeed absurd, according to the definition. Inductive reasoning is the basis of most beliefs, especially omens, portents, conspiracy theories, end-of-the-world predictions and anything involving eschatology, like the existence of a Heaven or Hell.

Ernie posits that ideology based on unproven claims as tested by inductive reasoning equals absurdity, therefore Christianity and its conception of hell are unreasonable and absurd. I do not fault Ernie's commitment to logic or reason, but observe that it actually has the nature of a pre commitment or a presupposition. It is not something that he has proven by empirical experience or logic, but it is rather that by which he proceeds to prove everything else. Since laws of logic are immaterial as God is immaterial, something not extended in space, then by your own proof test, reason is immaterial and absurd as well.

Laws of logic exist in the human mind whose basis is material. Logic underlies mathematics of which parts can be applied with great effectiveness to physical science. If you are a Platonist like Roger Penrose, then logic exists in a separate realm. The logic of the universe seems quite similar to the logic of the mind, but we evolved to live and survive in the real universe.

I think this comment expresses hell's true appeal. It gives sanction to imagine one's foes being eternally tortured. Schadenfreude to the extreme. The common denominator amongst religions is the in-group/out-group dynamic. The believers are the in group, everyone else the out. Christianity is unique in its barbarism in wishing eternal torture for all those who dare to leave the group or who deign not to join. This shows what horrible people christians really are. They seek an eternal afterlife where they can soothe themselves to the cries of the damned. Utterly, utterly sick. It is an indictment of the Romans and perhaps the rest of us that the doctrine of loving your neighbor and forgiving others their trespasses had so little to commend it that it had to bolstered with the concept of hell. Very sad.

You, in your arrogance and ignorance,criticize Christianity. And yet, you betray an appalling lack of knowledge of what Christianity teaches. Obviously, you don't know that one doesn't have to be Christian to avoid hell. One just has to go against the wishes of God. Like what you are doing in your hateful expressions. There are consequences for our actions. There is nothing hateful in that. If you break a law, you pay a price. Try harming someone else and see where you end up. You pay a price. And disobeying God means the same thing. But then again, those like yourself aren't interested in pleasing God, just your own selfish ego. And that is your choice which you are entitled to. Just don't complain when that lands you in some place that you will regret having to visit. I notice that you ended your comment with "Very Sad". Wow! You took the words out of my mouth. Especially, since your naive comments demonstrate how sadly lost and uninformed you are. Someone who accuses others of hate when your own comments reek with hate, not only of those you disagree with, but of your own self. Sadly, you aren't even aware of it!