He's the only player with 400 HRs and 400 steals, and 500 HRs and 500 steals.

8 Time Gold Glove

All time career walks leader

Do you realize that Bonds has only led the league in HRs twice in his career? That's a testament to his consistency.

The guy led the league in walks 10 times in his career. That probably has a lot to do with why he has such stellar #s and less at bats than Aaron. I don't think people realize that Bonds has walked 1,100 more times than Aaron did. The much ballyhooed difference in ABs shrinks considerably when you take off 1100 odd additional walks.

Barry does look bigger than he did 15 years ago, but so does HOF'er Tony Gwynn..and no I am not accusing him of using any drugs.. Magic Johnson looks bigger too, but we know he taken special drugs just to stay healthy and control the HIV Virus.

Do we really have any real medical proof that Barry actually used steroids. Right now it is accusations from a wide range of various sports figures to sports reporters and of course denials from Barry himself. he will still go into the hall of fame.. probably on the first ballot...

There could have been hundreds of baseball players and definitely football players who used performance enhancement drugs in the 80's and 90's that will never be accused of cheating because they may have tried it once or twice and no one ever found out due to the lack of screening. Of course some didn't have the natural ability of Bonds so it didn't help them anyway.

The pitcher who served up #755 to Barry was found guity of using steroids a couple of years ago, but does anybody care...? Nope the folks who didn't like Barry's attitude over the past 15 years built up this negative persona of the individual chasing baseball's greatest record and of course in the end that was brought on by Barry himself.

My opinion, I thought he should have have stopped playing when the accusations started as I knew the controversy would be there. That way at least Hank could have held on to the record until ARod breaks it in 2015...But of course at that time he will be accused of something too...mark my word.

I too wished that Emmett Smith had stopped playing too so that Payton could hold the rushing record, but Smith 'endured' pain for a couple more seasons to break it while Barry Sanders chose to step aside.....

He's the only player with 400 HRs and 400 steals, and 500 HRs and 500 steals.

8 Time Gold Glove

All time career walks leader

Do you realize that Bonds has only led the league in HRs twice in his career? That's a testament to his consistency.

The guy led the league in walks 10 times in his career. That probably has a lot to do with why he has such stellar #s and less at bats than Aaron. I don't think people realize that Bonds has walked 1,100 more times than Aaron did. The much ballyhooed difference in ABs shrinks considerably when you take off 1100 odd additional walks.

Click to expand...

I am aware.

I think he’s an amazing player, amazing athlete. Also he’s an amazing cheater.

Problem is, steroids weren't against the rules when Bonds was taking 'em. So, go ahead and hate Barry all you want, but you must add Do-Nothing Selig to that list along with the players' union, the owners and the media. Nobody is exempt here except for the players who didn't take them.

Drugs have been in baseball for years. It is a performance-driven game. Just look back at the '98 season with McGwire and Sosa. Reporters knew McGwire was using HGH and wrote virtually nothing about it. Nobody cared. And now baseball is paying the price.

I agree with Dre. Selig shoulda been there. He is as much to blame as anyone else. He's a paper commissioner at best.

Problem is, steroids weren't against the rules when Bonds was taking 'em. So, go ahead and hate Barry all you want, but you must add Do-Nothing Selig to that list along with the players' union, the owners and the media. Nobody is exempt here except for the players who didn't take them.

Drugs have been in baseball for years. It is a performance-driven game. Just look back at the '98 season with McGwire and Sosa. Reporters knew McGwire was using HGH and wrote virtually nothing about it. Nobody cared. And now baseball is paying the price.

I agree with Dre. Selig shoulda been there. He is as much to blame as anyone else. He's a paper commissioner at best.

Click to expand...

My take -

Sammy and McGuire were hitting home runs like crazy, ratings were sky high, and people actually cared about the MLB again. Americas past time was back!

Test Sammy and McGuire in the middle of a legendary season? He didn’t have the balls. The commissioner of Major League Baseball is a grade a prick.

Showing up for Barry’s 755, and having to be told to stand up, and stand their like he had never seen a homerun before. Like a %%%%ing alien had erased him memory the night before. “What’s a homerun?” he looked like a damn dog that had seen Michel Vick walk into a room. It’s more of a disgrace to be the commissioner and show up and stand their like a moron than it would have been to not show up at all. He made himself look like more of a jackass than Barry himself.

Sammy and McGuire were hitting home runs like crazy, ratings were sky high, and people actually cared about the MLB again. Americas past time was back!

Test Sammy and McGuire in the middle of a legendary season? He didn’t have the balls. The commissioner of Major League Baseball is a grade a prick.

Showing up for Barry’s 755, and having to be told to stand up, and stand their like he had never seen a homerun before. Like a %%%%ing alien had erased him memory the night before. “What’s a homerun?” he looked like a damn dog that had seen Michel Vick walk into a room. It’s more of a disgrace to be the commissioner and show up and stand their like a moron than it would have been to not show up at all. He made himself look like more of a jackass than Barry himself.

Bonds is definely a great talent and would have probably been a borderline hall of famer without the roids. That makes this even more frustrating. There is huge incentive for a player to cheat a little to secure their financial future. But for Bonds, he was cheating to break records. Then, we are supposed to applaud the record breaking? Same things with McGuire and Sosa.

Then you got guys like Pudge. He made a mistake, quit taking them and currently relies on hard work and natural ability.

If steroids weren't against the rules when Bonds was taking them, then why woulnd't he just admit that he was taking them?

Why would they deny him entry into the hall of fame for doing something that is perfectly within the rules?

Click to expand...

Once his detractors have established that he has had a history of being a steriod user, its a wrap. As long as he doesn't admit to doing it, all attacks remain purely speculative. The moment he admits to taking them at all, it would be as if he said he's taken them his entire career. There is no conclusive evidence to prove him guilty and most have already labled him a cheater and a liar. Why wouldn't he expect that the penality for admitting anything at all would be even more detrimental to his place in history?

So he walks the fine line between the truth and perjury and says that he didn't "knowingly" take steroids. He's not even saying he hasn't taken them. He's just saying that he didn't know it at the time.

I guess the question is not so much whether you think he took them, but rather whether you think he did it on purpose.

I can see taking the wrong pill. But this would be like taking your wife's BC pills for 5 years instead of your lipitor. After a while, you'd think that you would realize something was up.

So he walks the fine line between the truth and perjury and says that he didn't "knowingly" take steroids. He's not even saying he hasn't taken them. He's just saying that he didn't know it at the time.

I guess the question is not so much whether you think he took them, but rather whether you think he did it on purpose.

I can see taking the wrong pill. But this would be like taking your wife's BC pills for 5 years instead of your lipitor. After a while, you'd think that you would realize something was up.

Click to expand...

I'm with you. My gut tells me he's guilty. Where we differ is how I feel this affects his standing in the record books. I see this as harassment of a star that isn't friendly with the media. Its like deciding to crack down on the old DL list in basketball. Like one day the press jumps on Joe's back for lying about his players being on the injured list. Its like yeah, I'm lying but its the standard so why are you harassing me?

I took Immodium last night. I don't know what is in it, or how it works. But it did the trick.

This morning, my wrists (RSI/Carpal Tunnel) were burning like coals from Hades had been placed upon them. I took Advil. I have no idea what it does or what is in it. I only know that the pain subsided and I am working away in blissful ignorance.

On Sunday, I had Tunnel Bar BQ (Windsor Classic dinner, directly across the street from the Windsor Tunnel exit). I drenched my ribs in TBQ Sugar Reduced Sauce. I have no idea what is in it. I have no idea what the sugar substitute is. It tasted good, and I ate all the meat.

These guys get handed miracle stuff from supposed experts. Experts other athletes in their sport also trust and rely on. Maybe they should do more due diligence, maybe they are liars. But the reality is that we all take things into our bodies daily without fully understanding their effects, origins, side effects and possibly even their legality.

Thoughts on a few things...I had always assumed that baseball had no rules against steroids until a couple of years ago. But today on Mike & Mike in the Morning, they pointed out that steroids were already against the rules back when Bonds is alleged to have started juicing (around 2000/2001). It's just that they didn't start testing until 2005.

It's a fact that's worth pointing out, although I agree with those who will argue that this is a distinction without much of a difference. With no testing going on, it would be somewhat ridiculous to hold players accountable for not having voluntarily policed themselves. It would almost be as if the NBA decided not to pay anyone to referee their games, leaving the players to make their own calls, and everyone started complaining about the players' lack of integrity when they send themselves to the line on every play. Obviously the league would be the ones to blame in that situation. As for Bonds, while I think he did do steroids on purpose, I would nonetheless vote him into the HOF with no hesitation.

Similiarly, when it comes to the blame being heaped on Selig, while I can agree that he hasn't (and didn't) handle this whole thing very well over the years, he's far from the only one to blame. He represents the owners, not the other way around, and so long as they weren't pushing for steroid testing, there wasn't a whole lot he could do about it, even though he should have been more out in front of the issue. The players' union, who had to agree to the testing policy with the owners, also has to shoulder a lot of blame for not having realized how much damage it could do to their sport. So I put the blame for the "steriod era" on (1a) the owners, (1b) Selig, (2) the players' union, and only then (3) the players themselves who may have cheated (including Bonds). The media is in there somewhere as well, maybe in between the union and the individual players. As long as they were hailing McGwire, Sosa, etc. as world-conquering heroes, instead of doing their job right by asking questions and probing for the truth, the incentives for the sport's leadership to curb steroid use were knocked out of whack.

As Jim Leyland recently said on the radio, if this guy was a media darling, we would be appreciating him as one of the greatest players of all time. Instead he's become the poster boy for steroids when numerous players (including pitchers) have been juicing throughout this era.

Click to expand...

I argued against this a while back up-thread, and I'll repeat the same argument here again: McGwire is Exhibit A for why Bonds' reputation as a jerk has very little to do with all of this. Nobody was more of a media darling than McGwire, after he broke Maris' record, and nobody was more popular with baseball fans, but his reputation absolutely went in the tank, literally overnight, after his weak testimony before Congress.

The point about other players, including pitchers, not being held to similar account for juicing as Bonds is a fair one, but coupled with McGwire and Sosa, it demonstrates that most people only seem to care about juicing in baseball inasmuch as it affects home run records. That still makes for a pretty incoherent and hypocritical standard, in my opinion, but I also think it invalidates the "people are only criticizing Bonds because they've never liked him" argument.