Don't know about the situation in Asia, but I've noticed that in some "liberal" (whatever that means) circles I've encountered in the Northeastern United States, it's actually fashionable to bash Tibetan religious culture as a way of proving one's secularist bona fides.

Indrajala wrote:In Taiwan there are some people quite opposed to Tibetan Buddhism. On one of the main train lines they have these announcements plastered on the side of a building (I took these today):

To be honest, i don't feel too bad about these signs.

As pointed out by others, Vajaryana should for the most part be kept secret or in any case not publicized but taught only to people that are interested in it. It is just too easy to be misinterpreted, misjudged. Some tibetan writings mention this explicitely. Not only the Chinese government has some issues with it; even many Theravada practitioners show some contemption to Tibetan Buddhism, and i can't blame them when i put myself in their shoes.

I feel that the most valuable teachings are the ones that do not require any kind of publicity, because their value is extremely high when recognized by a suitable student. On the opposite of such spectrum are the spiritual traditions that require aggressive publicity (i.e. fanatical evangelical christianism). No matter how many "Tibetan buddhism is evil" ads are placed in the media, people with the capacity and the connection will value the teachings. Just as advanced math courses are widely regarded as "boring" and "not useful for daily life"...

As for the Chinese government versus HHDL, lately i've learnt not to believe anything posted by the official Chinese news. The damage done by Mao Tse Tung to its people (and to the world) is so vast and enduring that Stalin or Hitler seem tiny evils in comparison. I really feel sorry for the Chinese people. Thousands of years ago they were super-advanced spiritually and culturally.

Sorry to contribute so late, but...you really want to know about this group? Really really...? Okay, someone asked the same question on a forum for expats living in Taiwan. Someone else went and visited the group in question, which is called Zhengjue or True Enlightenment, whereupon a representative took note of the forum and began answering questions on it.

Strangely, the group seems at once to support the Tibetan Jonangpa tradition, and to oppose all tantric practice. I despair of squaring this particular circle, but perhaps some desperate anthropologist will make the group an object of fieldwork.

i went to a Chinese food restaurant here and was talking to the owner and he asked me why i would ever want to be a monk in the Tibetan tradition. He said the lamas would force you to have %#%* sex. Now I see where he got that from.

EDIT My mother-in-law is Japanese so nothing new. Same ol human condition...

Loren wrote:i went to a Chinese food restaurant here and was talking to the owner and he asked me why i would ever want to be a monk in the Tibetan tradition. He said the lamas would force you to have %#%* sex. Now I see where he got that from.

EDIT My mother-in-law is Japanese so nothing new. Same ol human condition...

I have come across these kinds of stereotypes, unfortunately. When one of my former friends learned that I had taken a Tibetan Buddhist teacher, she attempted to inveigle me from that choice with similar accusations.

As my grandfather used to say "just about everybody in the world feels a need to hate somebody."

Loren wrote:i went to a Chinese food restaurant here and was talking to the owner and he asked me why i would ever want to be a monk in the Tibetan tradition. He said the lamas would force you to have %#%* sex. Now I see where he got that from.

EDIT My mother-in-law is Japanese so nothing new. Same ol human condition...

I've spent some time in Chinese Mahayana communities and among the last devotees there seemed to be a great deal of misunderstanding about the Vajrayana and the monastics practicing it.

"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

I've spent some time in Chinese Mahayana communities and among the last devotees there seemed to be a great deal of misunderstanding about the Vajrayana and the monastics practicing it.

I can totally relate to this from personal experience, ranging from open disgust and subtle dismissive attitudes from some laity and monastics alike and reading from even eminent Masters like the late Ven Dr Yìn Shùn who did a short critique on it in his The Way to Buddhahood but having said all of that, Shingon-shu / Tángmì / True Word Sect is still well regarded despite the abundance of charlatans and self proclaimed Dai Ajaris...

I've spent some time in Chinese Mahayana communities and among the last devotees there seemed to be a great deal of misunderstanding about the Vajrayana and the monastics practicing it.

I can totally relate to this from personal experience, ranging from open disgust and subtle dismissive attitudes from some laity and monastics alike and reading from even eminent Masters like the late Ven Dr Yìn Shùn who did a short critique on it in his The Way to Buddhahood but having said all of that, Shingon-shu / Tángmì / True Word Sect is still well regarded despite the abundance of charlatans and self proclaimed Dai Ajaris...

I was, in this case, referring specifically to celebacy among monastics practicing the vajrayana. This in my experience is where the misunderstanding often lies.

"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

Indrajala wrote:In Taiwan there are some people quite opposed to Tibetan Buddhism. On one of the main train lines they have these announcements plastered on the side of a building (I took these today):

I suspect this stems from their concerns about consort practices. I was once at the National Palace Museum and some individuals were handing out bilingual booklets with graphic images of tantric deities coupling, condemning it as wrong.

They really went all out with these signs on the side of a building though. You can easily see it from the train and on the platform.

BTW, I know this cult. They are not a recognised Buddhist organisation in the mainstream in Taiwan. You may not have some information. Other than Tibetan Buddhism, they attacked everything else and propagated something that doesn't seem like authentic Buddhism at all. But of course, they are seem to have some rich patron and can launch vehement campaign, these have been around for quite many years already.

Consort practice can be visualised, or it might imply actual sex. Esoteric Buddhism didn't include such practices in China, since they developed later than when Esoteric practices were being transmitted to China.

While perceptions about these kinds of practices are part of why Buddhists in Taiwan may view Tibetan Buddhism as somewhat insincere, that's really half the reason. There are general perceptions that the discipline of the monks doesn't meet standards that folks from Chinese traditions would expect - of course, this may be simply an aesthetic concern.

I've spent some time in Chinese Mahayana communities and among the last devotees there seemed to be a great deal of misunderstanding about the Vajrayana and the monastics practicing it.

I can totally relate to this from personal experience, ranging from open disgust and subtle dismissive attitudes from some laity and monastics alike and reading from even eminent Masters like the late Ven Dr Yìn Shùn who did a short critique on it in his The Way to Buddhahood but having said all of that, Shingon-shu / Tángmì / True Word Sect is still well regarded despite the abundance of charlatans and self proclaimed Dai Ajaris...

plwk, could you please show me what Ven Dr Yìn Shùn wrote? I wasn't able to find it.

Zhen Li wrote:Consort practice can be visualised, or it might imply actual sex. Esoteric Buddhism didn't include such practices in China, since they developed later than when Esoteric practices were being transmitted to China.

While perceptions about these kinds of practices are part of why Buddhists in Taiwan may view Tibetan Buddhism as somewhat insincere, that's really half the reason. There are general perceptions that the discipline of the monks doesn't meet standards that folks from Chinese traditions would expect - of course, this may be simply an aesthetic concern.

if its actual sex...that is deviant for sure...I heared that the office of Dalai lama has denied this thing though in Taiwan

Tibetan buddhism is like a mystery...no body for sure could know whats going on

Tibetan Buddhism also refers to a lot of sects with different histories and practices, we can't generalise one way or the other. Individuals may differ from our expectations, so I think it's best to avoid judgement. Also, if we dismiss someone who may be a great Bodhisattva because of our expectations, the karma cannot be wholesome.

ShineeSeoul wrote:if its actual sex...that is deviant for sure...I heared that the office of Dalai lama has denied this thing though in Taiwan

Tibetan buddhism is like a mystery...no body for sure could know whats going on

It's actual, but not sex. On another thread JKhedrup checked with the geshe he translates for and confirmed that in theory it is possible for a monk to do consort practice without breaking his vow of celibacy. However the preconditions as to the level of attainment and the depth of renunciation are so great that basically, from the Gelug perspective, it almost never legitimately happens, maybe 5-6 times a century in Old Tibet. Of course the Nyingmapas do not take vows of celibacy so their criteria are a bit looser.

My posts are for entertainment purposes only. Please don't take anything I say seriously unless you verify it with a real teacher first.