A Greek Trader Tells Us The State Of Things, And Explains Why The Worst Is Yet To Comehttp://www.businessinsider.com/a-greek-trader-tells-us-the-grim-state-of-greece-right-now-2011-10/comments
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Thu, 22 Feb 2018 01:03:27 -0500Joe Weisenthalhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4eb315a36bb3f7ef5500000cdbhesstThu, 03 Nov 2011 18:28:51 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4eb315a36bb3f7ef5500000c
Who will pay the Greek public sector workers when Greece defaults? It is not like Greek workers produce anything that the rest of the world will pay for, is it?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea7829d6bb3f7e21c00000evigilantTue, 25 Oct 2011 23:46:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea7829d6bb3f7e21c00000e
Indeed, you are dumb. But then no one expects anything more from you.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea73360eab8ea9a7a000004theroosterTue, 25 Oct 2011 18:08:32 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea73360eab8ea9a7a000004
KISS : Monetize gold, at the personal level. Purge debt.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea6e9c469bedd7946000026DepressionTue, 25 Oct 2011 12:54:28 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea6e9c469bedd7946000026
are you so sure about that , i'd like to point out to you that the democrats are the ones wecloming millions of illegal immigrants into this country every year .... we are litearly being displaced in our own country by the people of mexico who have 5 kids that we americans end up paying for .....http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea6c76feab8ea9028000032dumb dumb dumbTue, 25 Oct 2011 10:27:59 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea6c76feab8ea9028000032
Southern US never had independence. They started a war because they wanted to keep their slaves...plain and simple. But i guess in Kentucky your taught differently?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea69789eab8eafe4200003bel-grecoTue, 25 Oct 2011 07:03:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea69789eab8eafe4200003b
What a pity things were not left alone when Europe worked fine in the old days, with occasional currency devaluations but with national autonomy. All we needed to improve on was our free trade agreements and a commitment to not fighting each other. These European bureaucrat megalomaniacs with their Franco German partners, have taken us to a new dimension where the battle is now global. They appear visibly clueless and unprepared for the intensity of the competition with the US and Asia in the financial markets.
To condemn a nation like Greece to negative growth (which is what austerity is) and then to express disappointment that the debt to GDP has increased as a result of it shows how uncoordinated the EU leaders are in applying the correct remedy. The truth is there IS no remedy under the present consumption model. And therefore there is only one choice. Do you want it now or later? QE may be evil, but if the outcome is a bust whether by deflation or inflation, I would guess most citizens would prefer the less aggressive solution of inflation because it defers the problem from the immediate. But all those voting for inflation should also understand that both outcomes could eventually lead to the same point of collapse in our present system of government.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea6943e69bedd4313000022Moron catcherTue, 25 Oct 2011 06:49:34 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea6943e69bedd4313000022
He's not commenting on the state of the Economy - more the social breakdown caused by harsh austerity.
Maybe you could try reading the article before you open your fat gob?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea69374ecad04206a000024righterisTue, 25 Oct 2011 06:46:12 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea69374ecad04206a000024
There was socialism is Greece? When was this?
Try reading a political ideology book before using big words you don't understand dickhead.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea6769eecad04fb31000018sipackTue, 25 Oct 2011 04:43:10 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea6769eecad04fb31000018
Coup d'état, here we go... although, last one didn't end up all that well...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea63e00eab8ea763b000022bolmeteusTue, 25 Oct 2011 00:41:36 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea63e00eab8ea763b000022
agreed.
<a href="http://www.investorzblog.com/how-to-find-a-good-broker/" target="_blank">http://www.investorzblog.com/how-to-find-a-good-broker/</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea626d96bb3f7b02a000017rip thisMon, 24 Oct 2011 23:02:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea626d96bb3f7b02a000017
we're going to have to conquer the south again...the (R) fringe is itching to lead the south into oblivion again.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea615c1ecad04c50600002aWindezMon, 24 Oct 2011 21:49:53 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea615c1ecad04c50600002a
Hey, how dare you discriminate against an animal better dressed than you?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5f4846bb3f7d05500000cIntellect forceMon, 24 Oct 2011 19:28:04 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5f4846bb3f7d05500000c
All the other EU members should thank Greece for keeping the limelight on it while the others can set their homes right. But that is not going to help. No one will be able to help Greece out as it will cause a havoc in the future. Countries like UK , France , Italy and Spain are in the same boat. Once Greece problem is solved (read- messed up). The other members will show their troubles. US will not benefit in the longer run, with the Euro down, the dollar will have to get more accountable and that will NEVER happen.
so one question-
How is it to be in the west? Enjoying , eh.....http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5e9b2eab8ea742200001aOBSERVERMon, 24 Oct 2011 18:41:54 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5e9b2eab8ea742200001a
The Rothschild family has been working on this goal for about 200 years: Control of the money of Europe. They are NOT going to give up. Greece will turn over tax collections and import duties to the European Ban (private bank).
This has been planned for about 2 centuries. Read your history. IT will get worse before it gets better since the goal is for each European nation to give up there independence, just like the Southern US states did after the North conquered the south.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5e94d6bb3f7083f000012TylerMon, 24 Oct 2011 18:40:13 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5e94d6bb3f7083f000012
Who the fuck would ever listen to an advisor from Greece on the state of the economy?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5e7c6ecad044f43000019beaboutMon, 24 Oct 2011 18:33:42 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5e7c6ecad044f43000019
Well you have the there Mr. Lefteris. Greece has not decided to protect penguins at all, but the California public employee pension system(s) are in just as bad shape Greece. Deficit spending in California (for penguins I guess) is totally out of control and cannot be paid back in my or my children's lifetime. I really believe that California will the Greece of the United States unless California really changes direction but, we both know they will not.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5e5d5eab8ea9024000013dimasvilasMon, 24 Oct 2011 18:25:25 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5e5d5eab8ea9024000013
you think that the problem this about with the countries of the south, but equivocation, the real problem this in France and Germany, its debt non declared and its bad banks.
he is easy to throw the fault to others when better to be been silent.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5dad969beddff3c000014lolgsgsMon, 24 Oct 2011 17:38:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5dad969beddff3c000014
Actually GS didn't help Greece and bet against lmao this is the funniest sh... while keeping the level of its economy artificially adjusted.
Euro euro lol will fall every c sucker want fall and are all speculating against ... AIM high act friendly again.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5d94aeab8ea900b000009lOlMon, 24 Oct 2011 17:31:54 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5d94aeab8ea900b000009
Lol don't you see the betting against euro speculation and the interest of the dollar to remain main currency since you living here?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5d6cf6bb3f7841900001eNewWorldPartyDotOrgMon, 24 Oct 2011 17:21:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5d6cf6bb3f7841900001e
Europe's "Stealing from Children" goes into Overdrive...to fuel fake economies and fake wealth.
Read:
<a href="http://www.newworldparty.org/2011/10/europes-stealing-from-children-goes.html" target="_blank">http://www.newworldparty.org/2011/10/europes-stealing-from-children-goes.html</a>
"The IMF is funded by the U.S., Canada, Australia and other countries. Since these countries are already stealing from their children and there is push for IMF to contribute billions of dollars to the European bailout, this means that Europe can potentially steal from children globally, including your children."http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5cf8f69bedd252d000004LefterisMon, 24 Oct 2011 16:50:23 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5cf8f69bedd252d000004
Correct.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5c3de6bb3f73b6e000055Norman MailerMon, 24 Oct 2011 16:00:30 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5c3de6bb3f73b6e000055
This "story" is not attributed to anyone. Could it be another figment of Joe's imagination? Not that I don't believe its premise, but stories not tied to a name lack credibility.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5be316bb3f7c26300002fLefterisMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:36:17 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5be316bb3f7c26300002f
James Grant already said that two years ago, and said "and we all know what happens to confederate money".
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Germans had a vision of the EU in those happy terms in the beginning:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvP-Jen_AgM&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvP-Jen_AgM&feature=related</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5be10ecad046b7200002bgmjMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:35:44 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5be10ecad046b7200002b
You are talking like Greece is the victim. But Greece is its own worst enemy.
Also, what is the point of raising taxes if people with money don't pay taxes? And hide their income? The whole nation is completely irresponsible. And the USA is exactly the same, except we have further to fall.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5bbcf6bb3f7156c00000biXMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:26:07 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5bbcf6bb3f7156c00000b
Europe says to Greeks : "No more loans for you" Greeks stay in the euro and default or exit the euro and default. EFSF deploys capital in European banks. Bondholders of banks make loss, stockholders lose it all. Greeks learn to collect taxes or call IMF. IMF implements austerity measures in exchange of new loans. Greeks stop whining. Problem solved.
Added bonus : Italians get afraid , announce debt reduction.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5bb22ecad048e7600001deverneweconMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:23:14 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5bb22ecad048e7600001d
From this:
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/24/opinion/the-hole-in-europes-bucket.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/24/opinion/the-hole-in-europes-bucket.html</a>
Europe is now the U.S. Confederacy economically.
We in the U.S., of course, have the advantage of intimate experience and
20-20 hindsight.
The only problem is: our own leaders won't let us let TBTF banks
lose out. So we will at best be a cripple, at the hands of not
particularly nice people, being dragged by those particularly not nice
people, to try to help out.
However, little ole moi has proposed:
<a href="http://awurl.com/6ZUbapMwx#first_awesome_highlight" target="_blank">http://awurl.com/6ZUbapMwx#first_awesome_highlight</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5bab369bedd6778000027LefterisMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:21:23 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5bab369bedd6778000027
I'm not a trader in Greece, but I used to be in the financial sector in Greece for 7 years and another 4 years in other sectors before I came to the US.
The trader above is correct, but he's still not saying the other half of it. That they will not fire most of them and that they are just hiding left and right in anticipation of the storm to calm down. That's how most Europeans always do it with everything in their lives, and governments and businesses. They are not like the "shoot first then ask questions" Americans.
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Nothing has happened yet in Greece - it's all a vague idea. Vote the laws? So what. Greeks rarely implement their laws. Just a show for the Chinese to dump their reserves in the Euro (and lose them for good).http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b9be69bedda47700001eBeltway GregMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:17:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b9be69bedda47700001e
You're telling me. But, where's the data point and who is this trader.
Another emotional clown chasing the ice cream truck through the neighborhood.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b95decad049a76000004LefterisMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:15:41 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b95decad049a76000004
Modern Greeks are not very rational people. Don't underestimate the concept of panic and fear. If Greece does all these things, it'll be a bloodbath on the streets and zero money in the markets.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b8c8ecad04e76b000032LefterisMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:13:12 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b8c8ecad04e76b000032
The difference is that CA is a highly productive high-tech State with a huge economy and vital businesses. If they cut some social programs such as "protection of the sexual preferences of penguins" they'll be just fine. Greece on the other hand has a tiny private sector compared to the govt.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b7ceecad04cf63000039LefterisMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:09:02 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b7ceecad04cf63000039
They are trying to force Greece to leave voluntarily through tough austerity. They are afraid though that they would have to beat all other deficit guests as well. I think we are witnessing the first stages of a massive exit from the Euro of the problematic countries.
Because a fiscal "transfer" union can't work when the deficits are so enormous, so gigantic. It would bankrupt everyone else.
There is no mechanism now, but Merkel says we shouldn't have taboos about it... so, it's probably coming. Or something similar - either way, Greece is done. As a country, as a nation, as a society. I actually lived through the first stages of the erosion of the Greek society. That's how the whole thing started.
For the Euro to survive, they need either a dollar collapse, or an exit of the high deficit countries, all of them. There's no way the highly taxed northern taxpayer will pay for the deficits of the entire South.
So, the problem is not only the banks. It's the actual enormous size of the deficits of the Southern countries. No transfer union could provide so much money to support Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain every single day.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b7ab69bedd566a000045beaboutMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:08:27 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b7ab69bedd566a000045
Well, not for trading advice but, for inside look that you will not get from the normal sources of information. Oh, and trust nothing you read, nothing you see on boob tube, and nothing you hear. I always wait for multiple points of verification before I act.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b77ceab8ea3747000024rocksolidtruthMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:07:40 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b77ceab8ea3747000024
Another wonderful day for selling.......all assets are rising.....dump everything and buy as much treasury debt as possible.
Once the summit is over and the dominoes start to fall........the entire world is going to plow inti treasuries. Profit event of a lifetime. Hopefully Bill Gross won't miss it this time !!!!
Don't be fooled by a great GDP number......most of that growth is in financial paper wealth, The actual productive economy....everything togrther as a whole......not just manufacturing......true total commerce......is contracting rapidly......as predicted by Actuthan..
Even Jamie Dimon is predicting a rush into Treasuries and a subsequent forced drop in price/rise in yields......of Corporate bonds.
Of course if you have nothing to sell it doesn't matter.......but Europe has baisically shut down the entire bond vigilante trade.......who wants to invest at all with mandated haircuts as the new wave in sovereign debt ???
It is all about trading the prices up and the yields down.......thank you EURO.
Get in if you can !!!!!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b77269bedd566a000041BradMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:07:30 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b77269bedd566a000041
It's a data point. In and of itself it means nothing but add his comments to the "stew" of decision-making on this subject. It's not all black and white out there Greg...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b6e3eab8ea1d49000022beaboutMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:05:07 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b6e3eab8ea1d49000022
UE=US Greece=California Same relationship and almost the same problems.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b652ecad041d7000000cdumb dumb dumbMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:02:42 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b652ecad041d7000000c
Greece does not have to "ask dad for money on a daily basis".... Greece can declare default, screw its debt, and start a painful process gaining credibility in a new currency.
NOT ONLY THAT. If Greece defaults now and reinstates a credible and sustainable currency they will be much better off when the EURO collapses.... LOL!!!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b5ea6bb3f7fc54000033LefterisMon, 24 Oct 2011 15:00:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b5ea6bb3f7fc54000033
"Some reports out of Greece say the Exodus has already begun with people crowding into western embassies seeking visas to immigrate into Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the USA."
Yes, you are correct. Very few to the USA, you can't get employment in the USA without green card (get married or hired by a willing company etc etc). But there's a lot of interest for Australia and for EU countries. Not many will migrate (it's not easy), but they'll keep trying through whatever families/relatives they have.
Greece and its socialism is done.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b55a69bedd576a00003dBeltway GregMon, 24 Oct 2011 14:58:34 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b55a69bedd576a00003d
Why in the hell would I listen to a trader in Greece?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b51b6bb3f7886100000aNick SatanMon, 24 Oct 2011 14:57:31 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b51b6bb3f7886100000a
Since there is supposedly no mechanism to force Greece out of the Euro, a transfer union, that is, putting Greece on permanent welfare (like say Northern Ireland within the UK) may be the only legal outcome.
Forcing Greece out of the Eurozone altogether is a far better alternative (although not for Greece). The question is can it be done? Yes, but only by cutting off the ability of the Greek government to borrow to pay for its deficits. Then that government will be forced to pay its internal obligations in a new local currency.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b49d6bb3f77357000025LefterisMon, 24 Oct 2011 14:55:25 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b49d6bb3f77357000025
Austerity will make things worse, and yet, there is no other way, because they can't print currency. Greece is like a teenager without a job and with gambling debts, who is asking his dad (Germany) for money on a daily basis. In response, dad is not giving money to the teenager, he is giving him loans. Which makes it even worse.
Even if the haircut goes to 100% (total forgiveness of the debt), Greece will be out of money within 4-6 months without outside help.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b0f8eab8eaea3e000016LefterisMon, 24 Oct 2011 14:39:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5b0f8eab8eaea3e000016
"state / public workers will actually be laid off"
They won't. According to Govt internal sources, they will be put into a "temporary state of re-training" for a few years, getting paid most of their salary, and when the crisis is "over", they will be re-hired.
That's the reason nobody has been fired in the last 1.5 years. They are trying to find a way to "hide" them, either through a long "re-training" period, or through peripheral "semi-governmental" positions which will be funded again by the government.
It is known that Greece can't pay its debt. It's a deficit country, they can't even pay 10% of it. They are just waiting, measure after measure, until the whole debt is forgiven and a transfer union is established within the EU, since the EU has no other way.
It is SO obvious I'm wondering why do all these economists claim they are not seeing it.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5af15ecad044a59000045Jack BurtonMon, 24 Oct 2011 14:31:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5af15ecad044a59000045
Some reports out of Greece say the Exodus has already begun with people crowding into western embassies seeking visas to immigrate into Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the USA. Whenever any country implodes, the same destination nations are expected to absorb to desperate people.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5ab206bb3f75544000035Jeff Matthews Snarky TurdMon, 24 Oct 2011 14:14:56 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5ab206bb3f75544000035
Point well made...this is the tip in terms of societal impact. Wait till the Italians figure out what's around the corner.
Time also to start thinking about German and French GDP in 2012 when GDP sinks to -4% or worse in Italy and Spain.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5ab0369bedd1f5a000039dumb dumb dumbMon, 24 Oct 2011 14:14:27 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4ea5ab0369bedd1f5a000039
25% unemployment is a huge problem and does not get solved by more austerity. I foresee it hitting 50% before it gets any better. By that time, Greece will be in ashes, and we will have the usual fleeing of citizens with any wealth left just like the 1950s.