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Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Things kind of look like they've gotten out of hand here. As I said, NC honey standard states that honey is still honey even if the pollen is removed, rationale being that the honey has not been adulterated. I do believe, however that NC is looking to change that provision so that honey must contain some pollen. The problem I see with removing pollen and not providing that information to the purchaser is that lots of people (the majority of my honey customers) buy honey for the purpose of easing their allergies. If it's being purchased for its taste, clarity, etc, I don't see the problem here.

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Here is where I have a problem similar to Sergeys. Where is the PROOF that honey relieves allergy symptoms. If you allow people to fool themselves w/ such thoughts, which may not be true, aren't you doing exactly what others are complaining about? Misleading by mislabeling? Not dispelling a myth to sell your honey.

On the oter hand, if honey does relieve allergy symptoms, why doesn't anyone promote that idea on their label.

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by sqkcrk

Boris, can you please list for me which Packers ultrafilter their honey? By name please. And sight the source of your information too. Thanks. I'd like to know. And what kind of machinery and handling techniques are they using to do this ultrafiltration.

Mark,

You raised the very good questions. Unfortunately, the Packers for the Supermarkets normally are anonymous.
I keep some honey Jars for my collection: "Distributed by Performance Food Group" - even a source of honey is not mentioned; "Distributed by AlDI Inc" - product of USA, Canda and Argentina" and so on....
But the jewel of my collection is this one - NO Distributor Name - just a statement: "A Select Blend of Honeys from Argentina, USA, and Other Conunries (!!!)"

Nevertheless, the horrible statistics are here:
"The study found that more than 75 percent of the honey tested (!!!) had the pollen removed through an ultra-filtration process.(!!!)
...All of this honey which has been found to be free of pollen goes through a process called ‘ultra-filtration’. Ultra-filtration drains the honey of impurities like wax (!) and pollen (!) by heating the honey and then forcing it through small filters at high speeds."

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

We have a lot of customers who want our local raw honey for allergies. I know of no study that shows this and do not label my honey to relieve allergies. But if they think it works, I am not going to tell them they are wrong and refuse to sell them honey.

I also tell these customers for it to do any good it needs to be local and not from somewhere 1000's of miles away.

Johnny

"Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

This is something I recently sent to one of our retail accounts regarding honey and allergies:

The idea that "local" honey helps with allergies has never been demonstrated in any kind of controlled study. There is no anecdotal evidecne that I'm aware of that compares "local" honey with raw, unfiltered honey that isn't local. Local milk will provide you with calcium...that is a true statement...but does it provide more/better calcium than non-local milk?

The idea that pollen content of honey changes every 50 miles (or doesn't change within within 50 miles) is not true. The idea that honey from a specific area harvested in the spring or summer contains the pollen that people are allergic to in the fall is not true. The idea that the pollen that people are allergic to is in the honey is overstated at best....there might be some ragweed pollen in the honey because the bees are negatively charged and attract pollen from the air, but the bees are not foraging on ragweed, it is wind pollinated, and therefore doesn't put energy into producing protein rich pollen or nectar to attract pollinators.

We are very careful about not assigning health benefits to honey when we are selling....it is illegal to so. It certainly isn't the retail stores' job to point all of this out to customers, but I would advise caution when dealing with customers in this matter....health claims need to be handled carefully.

"Imagine a world in which we are all enlightened by objective truths rather than offended by them."Neil Tyson

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by Broke-T

But if they think it works, I am not going to tell them they are wrong and refuse to sell them honey.
....
I also tell these customers for it to do any good it needs to be local and not from somewhere 1000's of miles away.

Errr......

"Imagine a world in which we are all enlightened by objective truths rather than offended by them."Neil Tyson

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by Boris

Mark,

You raised the very good questions. Unfortunately, the Packers for the Supermarkets normally are anonymous.
I keep some honey Jars for my collection: "Distributed by Performance Food Group" - even a source of honey is not mentioned; "Distributed by AlDI Inc" - product of USA, Canda and Argentina" and so on....
But the jewel of my collection is this one - NO Distributor Name - just a statement: "A Select Blend of Honeys from Argentina, USA, and Other Conunries (!!!)"

Nevertheless, the horrible statistics is here:
"The study found that more than 75 percent of the honey tested (!!!) had the pollen removed through an ultra-filtration process.(!!!)
...All of this honey which has been found to be free of pollen goes through a process called ‘ultra-filtration’. Ultra-filtration drains the honey of impurities like wax (!) and pollen (!) by heating the honey and then forcing it through small filters at high speeds."

Could you please explain, why not the NHB neither the NHF still did not start a lawsuit against Mike Barrett who posted this statistic, if he lied to us.

Boris Romanov

I have no idea why anybody wouldn't file a lawsuit. Not in my knowledge base.

It is my understanding that ultrafiltration removes more than all of the particulate matter, it also removes the color. So, how does the color and taste get back in the varietal honeys found on store shelves of grocery stores.

Ultrafiltration of honey by the Major Packers has been denied. Dutch Gold, aka Gamber Honey Company, and Souix Bee say they don't have Ultrafiltration Equipment. Maybe it's a matter of symantics, but words and their definitions do matter. imo

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

I believe that Mark is correct...this is all old news. The term 'ultrafilteration' means something specific in the food industry...and what was reported in this story was not considered 'ultrafilteration'.

Filtering out pollen is common (and smart) for those that would stand to lose (unsold stock) if the honey crystallized on the shelf.

Of course, crystallized honey doesn't crystallize on the store shelf or in the pantry....

deknow

"Imagine a world in which we are all enlightened by objective truths rather than offended by them."Neil Tyson

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by sqkcrk

Not being a burros behind, but is "AIDI" a typo? Did you mean "ALDI", a discount grocery store chain in the US?

One of these moved into our neighborhood....really designed for food stamp shopping (I'm not making a value judgement here...that is how they are setup...cash or public assistance card...credit cards get a surcharge), and based on the one time I went there to shop for ingredients to make a tuna sandwich (bread, tuna, dried onion flakes, mayo), low quality abounds.....I ate the tuna, threw away the mayo (it didn't taste spoiled, just not good), and I haven't decided if I think the dried onions are edible or not.

This is one step above buying food at a dollar store...I would not expect to find anything of good quality there.

deknow

"Imagine a world in which we are all enlightened by objective truths rather than offended by them."Neil Tyson

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by sqkcrk

Not being a burros behind, but is "AIDI" a typo? Did you mean "ALDI", a discount grocery store chain in the US?

Perhaps you are being a burros behind, Mark. In Boris's post, the second letter of the word in question is a lower case "L", not an uppercase "I". Look at it more carefully. In the quote below, I did not change the spelling, but did put it in a more distinctive font.

Originally Posted by Boris

I keep some honey Jars for my collection: "Distributed by Performance Food Group" - even a source of honey is not mentioned; "Distributed by AlDI Inc"

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by sqkcrk

Here is where I have a problem similar to Sergeys. Where is the PROOF that honey relieves allergy symptoms. If you allow people to fool themselves w/ such thoughts, which may not be true, aren't you doing exactly what others are complaining about? Misleading by mislabeling? Not dispelling a myth to sell your honey.

On the oter hand, if honey does relieve allergy symptoms, why doesn't anyone promote that idea on their label.

It doesn't need promotion on the label. At least in this area people know the benefits of honey from allergies to wound healing. They try it and if it doesn't work, they don't continue to use it. My customers who have been buying it from me for 10 years appear to believe that it helps their allergies. Makes perfect sense to me. . .if you're allergic to something and you take that something in small doses, you will eventually build up a resistance (much like the varroa mite and Apistan). That's why one must use local honey. . .to get the local pollens that are causing the sneezing and teary eyes.

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack

Perhaps you are being a burros behind, Mark. In Boris's post, the second letter of the word in question is a lower case "L", not an uppercase "I". Look at it more carefully. In the quote below, I did not change the spelling, but did put it in a more distinctive font.

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack

Perhaps you are being a burros behind, Mark. In Boris's post, the second letter of the word in question is a lower case "L", not an uppercase "I". Look at it more carefully. In the quote below, I did not change the spelling, but did put it in a more distinctive font.

Aldi is spelled correctly, although it does not have uniform case.

.

Thanks Radar. W/ my cattaracts I have to hold the computer close as it is. So, fine details get passed me. Saving up for the operations. Maybe pollination money will help.

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by Tia

It doesn't need promotion on the label. At least in this area people know the benefits of honey from allergies to wound healing. They try it and if it doesn't work, they don't continue to use it. My customers who have been buying it from me for 10 years appear to believe that it helps their allergies. Makes perfect sense to me. . .if you're allergic to something and you take that something in small doses, you will eventually build up a resistance (much like the varroa mite and Apistan). That's why one must use local honey. . .to get the local pollens that are causing the sneezing and teary eyes.

Sorry to inform you of thi Tia, but you and your customers are operating under misunderstandings and selfdillusion. Seeing causeand effect where it doesn't exist. For one thing, the pollen you customers may be allergic to does nt exist in the honey you are selling them. The are allergic to windborn pollens, not the kind of pollens collected by bees.

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by sqkcrk

...Ultrafiltration of honey by the Major Packers has been denied. Dutch Gold, aka Gamber Honey Company, and Souix Bee say they don't have Ultrafiltration Equipment. Maybe it's a matter of symantics, but words and their definitions do matter. imo

Mark,

Even in the best-case scenario the Packers that you mentioned are less than 25% from the total amount of tested honey.

In addition, the video posted here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDtClXCM1_I
explains what kind of final product the Dutch Gold Honey provides to the market.
Therefore I do not want to call this forever liquid substance as HONEY.

My wife, my children, my grandson and my friends prefer my raw organic honey, but not a sweet liquid substance from the Supermarkets.
What about your family choice/preferences?

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by Boris

... but why a Packer name is not posted?

Many foods sold in America do not have a "packers" name on the label. This is not really a honey issue. All kinds of foods are produced by a contract manufacturing arrangement. The most obvious of these may be "store brands" like Janet Lee, Safeway, etc. The less obvious are those where national brand name goods are packed by a contractor using the national brand packaging.

Any move to force all food labels to identify in plain English the companies involved in manufacturing that food item on the label is from someone that just doesn't understand the true meaning of the phrase food fight.

And I predict the entire food industry will mobilize the troops even if a smaller segment of the industry is targeted for contract disclosure.

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Agree with Mark and Dean for the most part on the pollen issue... Lined up a new outyard today and she was interested in the allergy effect but had the presumption most of it was caused by grasses and I said can't really help you there, although bees may visit ones that actively have anthers, the amount of grass pollen collected is still minimal.

Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

Originally Posted by jim lyon

Perhaps I am too pessimistic but I think that the majority of the time a honey purchase is an impulse purchase made in a large supermarket by a hurried, stressed and budget conscious consumer often with a child in tow begging for a $7 box of Fruit Loops.

Well, like I say to a lot of your posts Jim, I agree to a point

Yes we are selling to a budget conscious consumer, and alot of the consumers food spending habits prove that time in and again.

But I believe good food is back on the consumers radar. And if not here, it is in other places in the world.
Take China for example, I would say that the majority of consumers in China are just as happy to eat than not. But with the increasing wealth in that country and the huge number of people, premium products are finding a place and good food is fetching a price.

Our packer is tapping into that higher quality market,
I do believe that trend is happening here also, otherwise we simply would be out competed