The Design Of Eagles Red Zone Offense Is Poor

Eagles offensive masterminds Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweg have not had a good game plan in the red zone. They don’t have a group of plays which are effectively consistent down there and it’s the reason they can’t punch the ball in there when they get in the area. It’s very obvious that they don’t have something to go to when they get in the red zone.

If was kind of ironic that a former Eagles assistant, Steve Spagnuolo would be the one to expose them for the poor design of the offense. I’ve said before that they lack a power running game in the red zone with left tackle Jason Peters sidelined with the Achilles tendon tear. There’s no excuse for Reid and Mornhinweg not having designed some effective running plays in red zone to use without Peters because they knew during part of the off season that he wasn’t going to be available.

They’re being forced to rely on plays which were successful five to ten years ago, but are now easily defended. How many times have they shifted into split backs and run the shovel pass? Teams didn’t adjust to it for many years of Reid’s tenure here. The Birds would shift to split backs and Donovan McNabb would flip the ball to Brian Westbrook and he would trot into the end zone. Michael Vick tried to flip the ball to LeSean McCoy the other night and the New Orleans linebacker were there waiting for it.

The Saints were also going to an automatic “zero” blitz every time the Birds shifted into an empty backfield. Zero blitz means they’re sending everybody and there’s no safety help in the deep middle of the defense. Without the running back in the backfield to block, a blitzer was in Vick’s face immediately and he’s got to get the ball out of his hands. The free blitzer would force Vick to throw the ball away, throw the ball to a receiver who had to cut his route short, or mistakenly take the sack like he did when the Birds were in the red zone.

The Saints doubled Brent Celek, who was Vick’s number one target on the play which he was sacked. Reid explained it all yesterday.

“It’s not that (Vick) he’s not picking it up. There’s going to be an extra guy and it’s his responsibility to get the ball out,” Reid said, referring to five blockers trying to pick up six rushers. “Or you’ve got to look at the receivers and make sure they’re doing their part, too.”

“If you see zero blitz, you’ve got to know that one man can’t be taken care of. The ball’s got to come out,” Reid said. “The receivers have to be aware of that, the quarterback has to be aware of it, too, and make sure they protect the inside part and give the quarterback an opportunity to throw the ball.”

Their number one target in the red zone has become tight end Brent Celek and he’s been disappointing. A couple of weeks ago against the Lions, he dropped a touchdown and had another one called back for offensive pass interference. Of course you know what happened when Vick tried to go to him this week. I’ve been telling you since the off season that Celek would be the key in the red zone because he’s their best receiver with some size.

The play which resulted in a 99-yard interception returned for a touchdown was poorly designed. Back up tight end Clay Harbor was running a short outside route on the play to the same side Celek was on. Of course Celek was running an outside route and the area was far too congested.

They should have had Harbor going deep into the back of the end zone, so that he would have run cornerback Patrick Robinson out of the area and that would have given Celek more room to operate and of course Robinson wouldn’t have been in the area to pick off the deflection.

You have to blame Reid and Howie Roseman for not having signed a wide receiver with some size. Would Plaxico Burress and the eight touchdowns he scored last season have helped you this year? A big receiver eliminates that problem in the red zone. Check out all the top offenses in the league and all of them have a big receiver, who is an effective target in the red zone.

The Eagles don’t have physically dominant people on the line or amongst their offensive personnel to make a differenct in the red zone.

60 Comments for “The Design Of Eagles Red Zone Offense Is Poor”

This line is too Soft/Small for RedZone and our small skill guys don’t help the cause either.

I have a hard time believing Evan Mathis is anywhere near 300lb. Celek Looks much bigger than him when they’re next to each other.

Kelly will be good with experience. But young linemen are brought along by vets next to them. The problem is the most experienced guy on the line was Mathis on Monday night after Todd’s injury and it just went down the hill from there.

Yep everything is Vick’s fault even defensive holding that led to the deflected pass. We can always count on Vinnie. LOL. I guess Maclin’s TD against the Lions happened in 1973. Vinnie the QB has been poor the last year and a half but you lose any credibility when you refuse to see what the real problems are with this team.

I’ve stated this for 3 Seasons now on Deaf Ears and Eyes..
This is what Happens when you have pint-sized WR’s who can’t run over the middle for fear of getting hit and a Small QB who can’t see over the line and naturally throws 3/4 sidearm and gets a lot of passes batted down at the line of scrimmage and simply can’t see over the line-of scrimmage unless he takes 7-9 Steps back which takes another second or two and allows the oposing Def Secondaries and LB’s to close the passing lanes up..

The line is terrible right now and 5-9 step drops allow the defensive lineman too many paths to get the qb. That being said the quarterback is way overmatched trying to figure out the defenses he looks over at.
Let me give 1 example from Monday night; Eagles bring 6 guys against 5 blockers and Trent cole comes in untouched and whifs on Brees who then makes the eagles pay with a 30 yard completion down field. Brees knew he was going to get pressure and was ready to side step it.
Later in the game the Saints also show blitz bringing 6 guys against an empty backfield (Gruden spoke about this play). Vick drops back with his back to the unblocked defended that he should know is coming from his pre snap read. He turns, is surprised and isn’t able to slide away from the pressure and takes the sack. Eagles drive is done while the Saints went and scored a touchdown later on their drive. The coaching staff is to blame, but don’t think Vick is even average now that he isn’t an elite athlete.
Vinnie brings more facts to this site than anyone, the truth hurts.

I’m confused ….So those time when the QB pointed at the defensive players and audibled down to runs to the opposite side in which the RB ripped off huge gains…That wasn’t recognizing and reading the Blitz ?

Here we go again with PMAN being the only voice of reason in a blind and deaf place…

Pman…. why do you think people wanted TO here?
Why for the last 2 years have we been calling for Plax?
Why do people always bemoan not having FItz?
Why were people calling for the birds to bring in Vjackson?

Why?

Because WE ALL KNOW THE WR”S ARE FAST BUT WEAK!!!

who are these people that are saying our WR’s are tops? I havent heard that here in YEARS.

Ant comment against this poor excuse of an Oline seems to be a vote of C for the QB. How do you figure? Clearly this Oline is the biggest problem on our team. How can you dispute this? we had super bowl winning qb’s saying this. We had a SEVERAL SB winning QB’s saying this….. one is in canton. My grandmother can see its our main problem and she’s been dead for years.

Why is it that Wilson and Brees can see over the line of scrimmage and Vick cannot? McNabb is tall and had passes batted down regularly. Something other than height is also in play. Coaching, poor offensive line technique and lack of talented big men must be in the equation. Otherwise, Wilson and Brees would have the same problem.

Please don’t include Wilson with Brees. One is a HOF and the other has been fairly effiecent through 8 games. Drew Brees is the single short quarterback that can do it. There are only a select few that have the required mental and physical skills on the planet to be great quarterbacks. Drew Brees is able to overcome his lack of height which makes it more impressive in my opinion. He has been a passing qb all his life with the stats to back it up. Vick has looked short for Crumpler or ran through his career along with a great stretch of games 2 years ago. Vick’s is probably the toughest player in the NFL, it’s just the coaches ask him to run a complex pass happy offense that he’s never had to do in his life. The constant time outs are called because Vick and Reid get confused several times a game. The fans understand Reid has put Vick in a no win situation.

It’s nice that the stretch run play was mentioned when Vick correctly read the defense and adjusted to the correct play. That should happen several times a drive and lead the team into the end zone. This team hasn’t been able to score touchdowns all year. Will the shovel pass still work? There is a reason the offense is terrrible in the red zone. The quarterback has to be more precise with smaller passing windows and make reads quicker because the defense has less space to defend. That’s simply why an incomplete pass at midfield is often an intercetion in the red zone. Vick is just being asked to do things that are over his head, the blame is on the coaching staff.

In addition to the red zone offense, I would contend that the design of the entire Eagles team is poor. Undersized defense with “0” difference makers, special team players starting and an assinine “wide 9″ scheme, because of which we signed a one dementional cry-baby like Babin to big money and signed an epically overrated Nnamdi, when we already had DRC and Samuel. The offense is horrible. It is made worse by the Eagles insistance on playing the “Howard Mudd” system that requires quick atheletic lineman in a zone scheme and what we have left are 6’10 monsters that cant move. Our recievers are tiny and invisible in the red zone. The qb is average to below average with little acumen and quickly declining speed which was the only attribute that made people think he was special. The drafts early round picks have been autrocious, which directly contributes to the lack of playmakers. The late round picks have been even worse, which is why Special Teams stinks, those picks are the bottom 1/3 of the roster. Most importantly the mastermind of all the above, Andy Reid and his refusal to adapt, change or compromise. This team needs an overhaul top to bottom come Dec. or maybe we’ll win the last 4 meaningless games of the season and be told its something to “build on” for next year.

Again we’ve covered this. Vick occasionally audibles down to runs. Wow. Amazing. Every QB from HS on does this.

What he doesn’t do…ever…is change the wr routes/throws to deal with a coming blitz…like on the pick 6….when he sticks with the throw he often is unaware of the blitz that’s coming. (and of course MM also knows he is unable to do this and is probably one of the reasons I’m reading about “friction” between Vick and an unnamed co-ordinator)

Enough with the “any QB would get killed behind this oline!!” Speculation. No, I don’t think they would…because the ball wouldn’t be in their hands! The quarterback, along with the oline must deal with blitzes BEFORE the snap.

Top tier quarterbacks invite the blitz. They dare the other team to blitz.

Vick doesn’t adjust PRE-SNAP.

The most glaring examples of this are the sack fumble last year vs Minny
The sack fumble vs Arizona
The pick 6 vs NO

but it happens all the time.

I guarantee you that most of the top 10 qbs in the league throw touchdowns vs Ariz and NO with those unblocked rushers coming at them because the entire centre of the field is left open.

The moment Vick saw the empty centre he should have looked at Celek and tapped his hip, or pointed, or done something to change the play to a slant….then hut and a quick throw to a wide open guy 4 yrds past the LOS.

Bang-bang. 2 seconds. No sack. No hit. Easy TD.

But this doesn’t happen because VIck cannot make these adjustments.

The most amazing thing is….no team would even dare run this kind of “Zero” blitz as they’re called now against a good veteran QB because they know what would happen. Jim Johnson used to make a living on this shit vs the 1st and 2nd yr QBs of the world, but would often get shredded when up against the mannings, the brady’s……

Good QBs INVITE this kind of D. Sending 6 rushers means someone is always open. Good QBs know who it will be before the snap and make those adjustments.

Vick does not.

And I don’t care how fast he is, how elusive he is, or how far he can throw the fucking ball. An NFL team cannot. ever. win with someone like Vick at the helm. Right now – I guarantee you that Vick would have 25+ sacks if he was on the Giiants, the Pack, SF….whoever…..

How do I know this? Because he’s been getting shelled consistently every single fucking year of his career.

This is not new
2002 – He was sacked or ‘forced’ to run on 25% of his dropbacks
2004 – He was sacked or ‘forced’ to run on 34% of his dropbacks
2006 – He was sacked or ‘forced’ to run on 30% of his dropbacks
2010 – He was sacked or ‘forced’ to run on 26% of his dropbacks
2012 – He was sacked or ‘forced’ to run on 21% of his dropbacks (I bet he gets to 25% by year’s end….I wonder why I think this)

Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose

Always the same. Must be the coaches. Must be the olines. Never Vick.
.
The online is bad. But it would be better if Vick wasn’t under centre.

We must now begin training a replacement QB. We needed one 4 years ago to replace McNabb. The stupid Vicksperiment has done nothing but delay this process 4 years, and frankly, I’m pissed about it. It is the single most important thing that this franchise must do to move forward.

Sis, Vinnie again you need to do some research…Vick against pressure is in the top 10 in the NFL (was as of last week) The NFL is a different animal than that of the lingerie league, sis….You say nothing about the defense or lack there of…you say nothing about Celek and his dropped passes, you say nothing about poor execution by special teams….its always Vick, never anyone else…

How can he change the TE route to a slant, when you have Harbor on the same side running a route about the same distance, no spacing…also with DJAX coming back to the middle of the field…yea that would of been a pick for sure going by your adjustments…LB dropping right back to the middle of the field. How about you stop ignoring the obvious, and asking the question, why Celek couldn’t make a great catch, or why the defense wasn’t called for holding. With you, its always and only Vick, you have a lot of damn nerve.

Also Sis, your “sacked or forced to run stat” is the dumbest stat I’ve ever seen. How many QB’s in the NFL get sacked…? How many QB’s in the NFL is the leading rushing NFL QB in history? Behind this O Line Vick should run more!

vinnie, your stat about Vick getting sacked or forced to run is stupid because thats what they brought him in to do… RUN. Its y we got on McNabb at the end.. because he wouldnt run. Vick is a double threat ( maybe a bad one, but thats what he is).

I say it again….you only see vick. He is not the biggest problem on the field.

Heres a stat..,…. how many drives did the falcons score on to start that game?

I can’t figure why they have red zone problems. Up at Lehigh, Vick takes snaps at the 5 yard line and a reciever runs a route 1 on 1 and it seems to work fine. HUUUMMMM, mayby the problem is when you add 19 more men into this small area and expect a 5’11’ guy to see a 5’8″ guys through 2 lines of 6′-6″ monsters with bad intentions. Am I stating the obvious? apparently not.

Ray Didinger just pointed out 6 plays at least where the pocket was good and receivers were open and he didn’t throw to them. I understand he’s been hit but they are plays a top qb makes. Plain and simple. Brady, brees etc make teams pay. Our guy doesnt

This 2012 Eagles Teams sucks all the way around
Offense, Defense, Special Teams, You name it..
Eagles probably have the Only Kicker in the NFL who can’t kick it to the 5 Yard Line while every other Team;s Kickers boom them 8-9-10 yards back of the end zone..

There are probably 4 Legitimate NFL Quality Players on this Roster
RB McCoy, LB D Ryans, CB DRC and that’s about it (ooh, I forgot about LS Jon Donebros) .. Good Grief..

Oh my! Vick had 6 times in the game where recievers were open and the pocket was good. lol How dare he not score a TD on them 6 plays. Give me a f%%ing break. The whole country saw the problem and nobody cares what a few philly fans and media people say.

The extent to some defend Vick proves what I posted earlier, they are amongst the dumbest of dumb people, but worse they have agenda, they can’t stand the fact that their quarterback is a dumbass, turnover machine, good to be on your side in the hood, bad to be the face of the franchise

JakeMut you are a pitiful excuse for an American! you are a pitiful excuse for a football fan period, with a brain made of feces!….those that defend Vick, have to defend Vick because idiots like yourself who dont understand football is a team sport. You are a joke and I think you have some psychological problems. One day you say you’re pulling for Vick because of the shit talked against him, the next day you’re Vinniemysisters, backup dancer, bitch!

Wow jakedog tell us how you really feel, how about living in reality instead of this make believe land where every misfortune that comes is because Vick is the problem. And what would your agenda be? Love Ray Diddy but everyone could point out 26 plays where any QB would have gotten killed so daggolden is right on point. And if you didn’t have an agenda why would include on your side of the hood?

If you read a lot of the posts by so called Vick backers I don’t think you’ll see anyone saying he’s been playing good football. But those with an agenda will go way out of there way to place blame on him instead of realizing this Howard Mudd o-line system doesn’t work here in Philly. Not for Vick , Foles, Kolb or any QB that we could put back there.

This O-Line that DOES SUCK was brought in why???? Oh yeah for vick… What??

YES folks remember why they changed O-Line coaches. Juan C Scapegoat (he was overmatched but still) was considered a top 3 O-Line coach yes or no?

YES

Why then change??? Because They wanted the CENTER to take over the Line Calls.

Basically AR and MM said after 2010 that Vick needed training wheels and so enter Howard Mudd.

Jamal Jackson was not able to make the calls as well as a kid named Celce.
That kid became a top 5 Center why?? Because he was always in the right position for the line call. Why?? Because he made it!

Problem is- Vick (UNLIKE P MANNING) is unable to delegate this and the training wheels have become an anchor.

This man (Vick) is a TREMENDOUS athlete but he is AVERAGE as a QB. Kiss my A@@ if you don’t see it. Vick is not good enough!!!

Anyway. The decisions over the past 2 1/2 years that have crushed (thankfully) the Andy Reid era are directly attributed to the unholy, unorthodox, unfootball marriage of Andy and Micheal as a fading coach has changed everything to prop up a bad QB instead of admitting his mistake.

I bet the owner of the Falcons is releived that he was unburdened from his draft BUST (because of the money to performance ratio) The eagles allowed the hot girl (vick) at the bar to F their whole team and now they all have VD. (not literaly)

Mr Jakedog Eyesa been tryin to find me a job masta. Itsa been hard but i try to do betta for ya. Eyesa dont wanna take no handouts masta. But me and my 12 kids needsa eat. Eyesa appreciate anything you can give me masta.

Vinniemysister, Sis you sound very stupid! Lets not forget, the team we just loss to, led by Brees, has the same exact record as the Eagles…So is the Saints 3-5 record Brees fault? I mean he is a great QB, no way his teams record should be 3-5, he should especially be able to carry that team no matter what the defense does….
The reference to the colts, is ridiculous…That whole team is inspired and playing for something bigger than football.

You mean how the whole team is rallying around the difficulties of their head coach? Rallying behind that hardship? Playing together not as individuals but as a team because they know the struggles he’s going through?

unreal are you suggesting that the tragedy that AR has suffered isn’t inspirational and bigger than football. the difference is that the colts have mostly homegrown players being LED by a LEADER in the locker room. as stated the eagles don’t have any homegrown leaders and their verteran qb isn’t one…

It is different….just look back to how some reacted to the news that the kid died from a drug overdose…some suggested that Reid be fired because his son whom was an employee had illegal drugs at the workplace…
one scenario is a man who contracts an illness thru no fault of his own ..Seeing a person going thru chemo and other cancer treatments and fighting the fight and winning is waayyyy more inspirational than someone dying from a drug overdose…BOTH are bigger than the game..but they are percieved and reacted to differently….IMO

@regaleagle I must have been reading the wrong articles I thought Jamal Jackson didn’t fit the Mudd body type nothing about making line calls that was a strength of his, I think you got it wrong buddy. Anyway let’s just blame the QB it’s easier.

No, what’s easy is for clowns like you to blame everyine else, coaches, oline, defense…..everyone except the guy who has been at the centre of the exact same problems week after week after week after week for 10 years.

Vin, while I agree with you, that Vick blows moose cock, this offensive line is horrific & one of the worst lines I’ve ever seen. Admit it, you are just extremely irrational, when it comes to Vick! Everyone on here sees it. It is getting to an unhealthy point with you Bro! 8 more games, he, Reid, along with the rest of the dreck, on this $#!t team will be gone,! Dude he sucks, we get it. Chill, before you give yourself a stroke! Why do you even get into a debate with his apologists?!? It’s a lost cause, that you ain’t ever going to win!

10 yards outside of the endzone, your running backs are tearing up the defense and you (AR/MM) decide it’s a great time to pass the ball on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down. 15 yards outside of the endzone, your running backs are tearing up the defense and you (AR/MM) decide it’s a great time to pass the ball on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down. 20 yards outside of the endzone, your running backs are tearing up the defense and you (AR/MM) decide it’s a great time to pass the ball on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down.

@Jake you are a terrible fan and a disgusting human being. Didn’t you learn your lesson when Navy made you his bitch? You sound like no talent little pecker having racist. Do you take the white hood off when you type those ignorant posts? Whenever you feel like expressing those racist thoughts of yours in person, just say the word. I’d love to talk to you face to face about it. Whenever you ready.

@Gotta Luv It —Garrett Reid had no business being on LeHigh University’s campus—- Jeff Lurie would not let Marcus Vick have a dorm room with his past & Marcus wasn’t a Heroin Dealer
some student has to sleep in that drug overdose dorm room now
Coach Reid’s drug emporium football camp

C’mon Man ..they were trying to save the dude..you know by giving him something to do constructive..making him feel part of the team/family…
by helping him battle his demons…And Lurie has known this kid since he was 14/15 years of age…
If your long time friend of 14 yrs had a kid battling addiction and you had the resources that Lurie has wouldn’t you help in any way you could?

HAHAHA – E0S, post is right on point with how the majority of you feel…
So because Garrett Reid had a criminal history for selling drugs, he shouldn’t be allowed to work or have any freedom? Wasn’t his freedom taken when he spent time in jail? This is the exact type of reason why so many on here dislike Vick….2nd chances should never be given, huh?

I don’t like Vick cuz he is a terrible QB and not a good leader. He lacks character. His personal redemption story is wonderful and I am very happy he is a better man than he was several years ago. That doesn’t change the football related faults. I still think he has some of that ‘keeping it real’ bullshit in him, trying to remain credible to his old element while at the same time distancing himself from it. I man that’s signed 2 100 million dollar contracts has NO business keeping it real