(30-10-2012 11:26 PM)Phaedrus Wrote: Don't worry, you know me, I'm a die-hard atheist. But I got to thinking: what evidence would it take to convince me of the existence of a personal god? I ruminated on this for about ten minutes.

If god appeared to me, and me alone, and performed no enduring or testable miracles, I would not consider that compelling evidence, and after the experience would likely seek a psychiatrist. It's too easy for the mind to be fooled or to conjure hallucinations.

If god appeared to me and several other skeptics of sound mind in an environment where a hoax or mass hallucination seemed unlikely and performed substantial miracles, that would be more compelling, but I would still be very skeptical until his supernatural powers could be tested.

I finally got it though. I know what would convince me to drop my heathenous ways and become a god-fearing, bible-thumping Christian.

If god/Jesus appeared to me in the flesh in front of a dozen other skeptics and performed a substantial, enduring, and testable miracle for each of us that would be compelling. A substantial, enduring, and testable miracle for me would be if god were to cure my poor eyesight and give me 20/20 vision. I currently cannot read my computer screen or a book from 18 inches away with my glasses off. If god cured my nearsightedness that would be a substantial miracle which would presumably endure beyond the encounter, and which could be easily tested by going to the nearest optometrist and taking the wall chart test. Jesus cured the blind all the time, and I'm only half-blind, so this shouldn't be too hard for him.

SO I BESEECH THEE O MIGHTY LORD, CURE MY EYESIGHT SO THAT I MAY SEE NATURALLY WITHOUT THE AID OF GLASSES OR CONTACTS, SO THAT MY VISION BE SUBSTANTIALLY AND PERMANENTLY IMPROVED. DO THIS FOR ME AND I WILL DEVOTE MY LIFE TO YOUR WORSHIP AND YOUR GOSPEL AND I WILL LIVE A GOOD AND CHRISTIAN LIFE ACCORDING TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS AND THE BIBLE. THIS I SWEAR. AMEN.

I figure that's about as sincere as I can be. If I wake up tomorrow with 20/20 vision (or even a close facsimile thereof) I'll become a Christian. If not, well...

Re "DO THIS FOR ME AND I WILL DEVOTE MY LIFE TO YOUR WORSHIP AND YOUR GOSPEL AND I WILL LIVE A GOOD AND CHRISTIAN LIFE ACCORDING TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS AND THE BIBLE. THIS I SWEAR. AMEN."

Impossible! The bible is so full of contradictory bullshit you wouldn't know whether you were Arthur or Martha. Plus you'd end up in prison.

If an all powerful being proved its existence we should find a way to capture it, put it on trial for its crimes against humanity and imprison/kill it forever.

"While religions tell us next to nothing useful or true about the universe, they do tell us an enormous amount - perhaps an embarrassing amount - about ourselves, about what we value, fear and lust after." Iain M Banks

I was all "flaming agnostic" until the LC showed up on the jobsite, so I tend to think you all can be convinced there is a god. But I also think this is an intelligent group of eukaryotes, so you'd prolly come to the same conclusion I did, that there is no external god.

Nothing.
If something happened I could not explain, I would never say "oh, god did it". There is no coherent definition of "godness".
A *definition* would be self-refuting.
I would just say "hmm, that's interesting, maybe we'll explain that some day".

Insufferable know-it-all.
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche

(31-10-2012 05:10 AM)daylightisabadthing Wrote: If an all powerful being proved its existence we should find a way to capture it, put it on trial for its crimes against humanity and imprison/kill it forever.

Lolz. How the fuck... You and the four peeps who like this post... are dumb.

If a god were discovered by science, its properties understood, described, and tested... the term god would have to be exchanged in relation to this creature with a more descriptive term. As we have replaced "monster" with lion, tiger, and bear so we might replace "god" with more descriptive terms. "god" might be reserved for the even more terrible, and more imaginary creatures that remain undescribed.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.

(31-10-2012 05:10 AM)daylightisabadthing Wrote: If an all powerful being proved its existence we should find a way to capture it, put it on trial for its crimes against humanity and imprison/kill it forever.

Lolz. How the fuck... You and the four peeps who like this post... are dumb.

We don't really have much to lose anyway.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.