Listen I dont even own one but KKO works on boats and the guy tells the truth. He also knows what he says when it comes to Malibu and Tige in the same show room. I will tell you there is a boomshot for every brand. So do not doubth he had a HORRRRRRRRIBLE experience. I own my own company and bend over backwards and kiss more ass than you can imagine and we have a few people out there thats freaking HATE us. I think you need a brand that fits the most people in the area you are selling. Also keep in mind everytime you move a boat you gain a service customer. Do you have hard core wakeboarders or mostly families with money pulling tubes. Could the guy go with a BIG name brand and go with MB, Axis or Moomba brands that have price point boats etc. Good luck.

Truth,
You seem to have an extreme opinion about Tige' I will tell you that I have been manufacturing boats for 30 years, the last 6 with Tige' I have been in every competitors factory and on their boats and I wouldn't bash anyone of them, while they make good boats they are not a better built boat than Tige'. I want to offer to fly you to the factory so you can see for yourself the quality and dedication that goes into each and every boat.

Call me directly 325-676-7777 I will arrange your flight and hotel while you are here I guarantee once informed you will have an entirly different opinon of Tige.

Yup. Love them or hate them.
You ask... why. I have thoughts. There are 2 main reasons I can think of why someone falls toward the hate side. I can't speak to the love side. And there may be more than 2 reasons, and the "love" list may be a mile long. F**k if I know.

1. Because at one point they put out a very difficult boat to be around, own, and be subject to. It was already mentioned in this thread - those v-drive Riders' Editions from 99-somewhere in the 2000's. That reputation has a long tail and they're still dealing with it. Those boats... jesus christ...

2. "Out boat's don't need ballast." - Tige Dealers. A lie. Period.

Sorry to put it out there like that, but that's my understanding of why Tige constantly fights with the internet.

**EDIT** Eeek. Yikes. Dads Home! Thank you Rick. Yes I do have an extreme opinion of Tige. Didn't exactly mean to get the President of Tige involved but I appreciate your offer. As much as I love airplane rides I will have to pass. But I sincerely appreciate it.

If you don't call him boomshot, you should stop talking smack. People have been trying to tell you that Tige stands behind their product and this is just another example of it and why they are a major player in the market.

Yup. Love them or hate them.
You ask... why. I have thoughts. There are 2 main reasons I can think of why someone falls toward the hate side. I can't speak to the love side. And there may be more than 2 reasons, and the "love" list may be a mile long. F**k if I know.

1. Because at one point they put out a very difficult boat to be around, own, and be subject to. It was already mentioned in this thread - those v-drive Riders' Editions from 99-somewhere in the 2000's. That reputation has a long tail and they're still dealing with it. Those boats... jesus christ...

2. "Out boat's don't need ballast." - Tige Dealers. A lie. Period.

Sorry to put it out there like that, but that's my understanding of why Tige constantly fights with the internet.

**EDIT** Eeek. Yikes. Dads Home! Thank you Rick. Yes I do have an extreme opinion of Tige. Didn't exactly mean to get the President of Tige involved but I appreciate your offer. As much as I love airplane rides I will have to pass. But I sincerely appreciate it.

The president of the company your bashing calls you out to prove you wrong about his brand and it only takes you 2 Min. to reply with a "NO" Your statements and opinions have no validity then do they?? Wow! I would have jumped at a chance to check out a boat manf. Even if it wasnt my brand of choice. Maybe I would learn something about an industry I'm passionate about.. You should reconsider dude!!!

The president of the company your bashing calls you out to prove you wrong about his brand and it only takes you 2 Min. to reply with a "NO" Your statements and opinions have no validity then do they?? Wow! I would have jumped at a chance to check out a boat manf. Even if it wasnt my brand of choice. Maybe I would learn something about an industry I'm passionate about.. You should reconsider dude!!!

Oh don't worry, I'm plenty humbled that he came in here to post but seriously I would only be in it for the airplane ride (I love airplane rides) and it would be a waste of his time and money. It isn't going to change my mind about Tige but I do think it is neat he came on here. Like a Boss!

You'll get used to it. It actually bothered me when I first started posting here a long time ago. I thought the culture here could be toxic, and was overly antagonistic. Most of the other forums that I have frequented over the years were/are much more laid back and friendly. However, over time, I've learned to appreciate this forum and what makes it tick. Boats are super expensive. Nothing causes more friction than a bunch of people defending or justifying how they spent their money or plan to spend their money or want others to spend their money so that they can end up with a piece of that money. You just have to understand that people are passionate about boats and not everyone is going to be conscious about hurting someone's feelings.

I like the fact that people (including me from time to time), get called out on this forum for typing things that are *******ish, that are just plain stupid, are factually incorrect, are agenda driven, etc. It helps keep things honest. If you weed through the b.s. that gets tossed around on here, you can really get a lot of good information about certain boats, brands, dealerships, etc. Not everyone wants to hear negative things being said about their boat or brand, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't post negative comments. Sometimes, there are negative things that should be said - like it or not.

IMO, the more discussion the better. I've learned a few things reading this thread in particular. For instance, it has demonstrated to me that, for the most part, people currently view Tige as a high quality brand that can give the big 3 a run for their money in the right market. Five years ago, I'm not sure that same sentiment would have been expressed. I don't know enough about Tige's current lineup to voice any opinion in this thread, so I'm sitting back and enjoying what I read.

You will never stop internet ADD, nor will you ever get a large group of passionate people who purchase competitive products to avoid taking shots at one another. Just try not to take anything too seriously.

Very well said Chattwake.
BUT!
5 years ago, from Tige fans "not sure that same sentiment would have been expressed" - was expressed. Trust me, expressed all over this place.
Cheerleaders then, cheerleaders now... what has changed? I know, for a fact, the earlier Tige's were awful. Worst I've ever personally been around. Weekend after weekend, lost. 3 boats. All at the same time. Often all 3 down. Weekend destroyed.
Now have they really come that far?
Fact is, I don't know and nor does anyone. It is going to take years and years to know if they got it right, and when.
Conversely, in a few years we might learn that some of our "top 3" brands need to move aside. Who knows.

You know why there are so many of us "fanboys" as you call us in this thread? Because Tige has it right! Under Rick they have come out with the RZ2, RZ4, Z1, R20, RZR and the Z3. They have also introduced better interiors, big ballast systems, touch screens, PCM engines and new gelcoat and tower designs. I never owned an older TIge, I bought my RZ2 new in 2007 and can say that I couldn't be happier with the quality of their product. What builds brand loyalty (fanboys)? It's the company's commitment to quality and to the customer and their use of a trouble-free product!

In all seriousness I will try to be more constructive in my comments about my experiences with Tige boats. That's my promise to you, Rick, and to other readers. Chattwake is right; it is hard to hear some of this stuff. That does not mean it isn't real. But that doesn't mean I need to be as raw as I've been.

By the way, "Timmy!", you quoted "fanboys" but you are the first person in this thread to use that word. To this point I actually don't think this has really been a fanboy thread.

Boomshot, you should fly down and check out the Tige factory and what they produce so that you can give us some insight from a non-affiliated individual. I'd love to get some reviews of the wakes produced by the newer model Tiges by an every day joe. You'd be doing people a favor. It's a hell of an offer Rick is giving you.

Truth,
You seem to have an extreme opinion about Tige' I will tell you that I have been manufacturing boats for 30 years, the last 6 with Tige' I have been in every competitors factory and on their boats and I wouldn't bash anyone of them, while they make good boats they are not a better built boat than Tige'. I want to offer to fly you to the factory so you can see for yourself the quality and dedication that goes into each and every boat.

Call me directly 325-676-7777 I will arrange your flight and hotel while you are here I guarantee once informed you will have an entirly different opinon of Tige.

Rick Correll

To me, this says a lot about a company. I like all boats, some more than others. I have never been a huge fan of Tige, but after reading that statement right there, it makes me think they are serious about their product.

Truth,
You have made it pretty clear that you are not a fan of older Tige's in this thread, and it is perfectly fine that you did. That is your opinion, you are entitled to it. You have been given the opportunity go and learn exactly what they are doing now and have declined. With those points in mind, I think it would be impossible for you to actually contribute to this thread any further.

To me, this says a lot about a company. I like all boats, some more than others. I have never been a huge fan of Tige, but after reading that statement right there, it makes me think they are serious about their product.

It is nice but it is far from the first time I've seen something like this. Rick Tinker and Bill Yeargin have both done this same kind of thing. Terry Dunigan did it too when she was the president of Correct Craft. Nice gesture but it isn't a first.

I will jump in and agree with what FMAN has stated. Here in Alabama we have had a very hard time keeping Tige dealers going. Malibu and MC are the two strongest with Nautique barely selling units to stay around. SC has not been able to get much traction here either, but is doing better with their latest boats and a better dealer in town.

Last year I looked at Tige when I bought my VLX and was amazed at the prices. No doubt that the Tige was a quality boat and I really thought I wanted the z1 - until i got in the VLX. I knew that was the one to have. The z1 was same price as VLX, but VLX seemed to have more for the money. More seat room, more storage, better feeling carpet, more finished look inside, better steering response, and even more cupholders. Not to mention better resell and a much better dealer network - I actually have 3 within 2 hours of me and two of them worked together to find my boat.

Honestly, I would say that your friend should open a supra/moomba shop. They have a history of good product, good resell, large dealer network, and mulitple price points for their boats (moomba on lower end and supra in the middle below Malibu, MC, and now Tige).

If you look at my profile picture that is behind a unweighted Tige. I'm just saying look at that unweighted wake with only 2 peeps in the boat.A couple of years ago i made a bet with some of the WW readers. I bet i could clear the stock wake at 23 mph on a 90 foot rope. I not only did that, i did a toeside 180 and a HS 180 at 95'. All that proves is the wake can't be that bad.At that time i was 50 years old,so i don't think i had any of the ability you young guys do.I'm not saying the wake is the best out there,but i'm saying Pro's could do fine behind a Tige.Rusty started behind one. If you look at the cover of Transworld Wakeboarding Magazine Adam Erringtons not doing bad behind a Tige either!You should check out the new Tiges so you know what they are all about.I hear the price thing all the time,that's why i shopped all comparable models when i bought my boats.Like i've said before when you take everything into account Tige gets best overall score.It reminds me of the dirt bike shootouts.It only takes a point or two to win overall,but that bike may not have the most HP or the longest suspension travel.It was the best overall, price included.

"Truth,
You have made it pretty clear that you are not a fan of older Tige's in this thread, and it is perfectly fine that you did. That is your opinion, you are entitled to it. You have been given the opportunity go and learn exactly what they are doing now and have declined. With those points in mind, I think it would be impossible for you to actually contribute to this thread any further."

Robert- when I bought my boat last year, I too took "everything into account" and Tige did not get the best overall score. I think that everyone that buys a boat feels the same way about their purchase.

I really like the Tiges.. there are just NO tires on my lake even though the nearest, and only, dealer is 25 miles away. My first boat was a 1998 pre2200v, not sure what hull that was and when tige stopped making it, but it was a great wake with a bunch of weight and I loved the taps. The interior quality was poor and the aftermarket tower was not really stable, but I had a great few years with it. I can see that Tige is making great leaps in both quality and design, and of course, the price is getting up there too. Anybody know if Tige is using that 2200 hull or similar in their new boats? I always got great reviews from riders about my wake.

just get the dealership and see if it makes it. if it makes it, great, if it doesn't then lesson learned. If your friend has a good buisiness, has stable clients, there is no reason he can't sell tige. Everyone here wants to see your friend have sucess. i really believe its more about the business owner and the ability to market a great product. The more movement tige gets, the better the wakeboat market will grow. good luck

Boomshot, you should fly down and check out the Tige factory and what they produce so that you can give us some insight from a non-affiliated individual. I'd love to get some reviews of the wakes produced by the newer model Tiges by an every day joe. You'd be doing people a favor. It's a hell of an offer Rick is giving you.

I second chattwake. Take video footage, still shots, etc. and let them give you the tour and let you ride behind what they believe is their best wake producer, sac'd out to the max. I don't care about proof that someone can clear the wake at whatever ft. and do 180's. I'm talking about proof of pro sized, industry backed, coveted wakes. Massive, clean, top of the line.

With flame suit on, i agree with what boomshot has said. My family bought into the Tige' hype in 2001. Same "no ballast needed" TAPS sales pitch, it had constant problems, wake was always small even after adding weight, washy and inconsistent and was sold within 2 years. That experience ultimately ruined my view of Tige'. On top of that, the Tige dealer went out of business here locally about 4 years ago. Last time i had the opportunity to ride behind a Tige' was in 2009 behind an RZ2. The wake was supposed to be awesome with factory ballast and it was horrible IMO.

Boat marketing is changing and the big 3 have it figured out (besides the new MC xstar flop). I was especially impressed with Nautique's G23 release. I can 100% without a doubt know that the G23 hull produces a massive, good quality wake. With the pro tour exposure, I know that MC's Xstar has an awesome wake as well. Same goes for Malibu/Axis with their promotional videos and pro rider's like Chad Sharpe posting videos to his blog of him and other pros shredding behind Malibu wakes. I recently saw a video of Rathy ripping behind a MB, which was impressive as well. I can't say the same about Tige'. Not trying to jump on Dave here, but he's posted pics of the new WakeWorld boat anchored up in the water, on the trailer, etc. but nothing as far as the wake goes. He's stated that he is "playing with the new toy", suggesting to me that the wake isn't up to par yet. How could it be after he rode behind the G23 at the boarding school not long ago?

As far as bashing, blah blah blah - a discussion board is what it is - people's opinions and experiences. I don't understand why someone would apologize for speaking what is truly their opinion. Every brand takes heat over one thing or another and its just part of it. Someone get some decent WAKEBOARD (not wakesurf) wake proof that Tige can produce an excellent wakeboard wake, one that can compete with the big 3 - not just compete style, looks and features wise.

I don't know what game-changer means. 2012 Looks like it's going to be a crazy year with so many "new" boat models coming out with amazing wakes and amazing features. The G23 is an amazing boat because of the wake and the well thought out interior and quality fit and finish. It is, without a doubt, one of the best wake boats ever produced. However, the Tige Z3 we just got hasn't even seen additional weight yet because I was so impressed with the wake with stock ballast and we're still playing with that. I can't imagine how big it's going to be when we finally load it up. There are several other boats that are bringing something new to the table as well for 2012, so the consumer is going to be the big winner this year. Sooo exciting for boat buyers!

Good God, the talk of no ballast needed, nothing above stock etc is so ill informed it makes me want to puke. This whole big wake, medium wake, small wake thing needs to be objectively sorted out. Masters & Johnson style with a standard way to measure. From the base? Otherwise these things descend into such a sh*t show.

Good God, the talk of no ballast needed, nothing above stock etc is so ill informed it makes me want to puke. This whole big wake, medium wake, small wake thing needs to be objectively sorted out. Masters & Johnson style with a standard way to measure. From the base? Otherwise these things descend into such a sh*t show.

Just go to the factory and see, they are extremely passionate about the product.
I spoke with Chris Chrysdale at the boat show, a Tige transplant from malibu, he asked me to rip the boat to shreds with things i disliked, so i did. i had only 3 negative things to say. you just got offered a unique opportunity, seize it while you can. He also explained to me how the hull is designed and how to weight the boat which i am more than willing to share.

the g23 is supposedly great with nothing above stock, youre telling me a 4500lb z3 with 2300 lbs of stock ballast cant be a really good wake too? it SEEMS as if they MAY HAVE taken some styling cues of tige's convex v design and adapted them for their use, is this going completely unnoticed?

tige's take a long time to figure out because of the hull but once you do youre gold, the wake on our rzr is damn near knee height(from the bottom of the trough) with 2 passengers and no additional ballast over the stock 1600lbs that it came with. and its a 20 foot boat.

I have had my Z3 out a few times now and the wakeboard wake looked impressive. Havent wake boarded yet behind her just surfed so far. When summer hits there will be plenty of pic's of the Z3 wakes. What really impressed me about the new Z3 is how well it grinds out the turns for a 23' boat.

I second chattwake. Take video footage, still shots, etc. and let them give you the tour and let you ride behind what they believe is their best wake producer, sac'd out to the max. I don't care about proof that someone can clear the wake at whatever ft. and do 180's. I'm talking about proof of pro sized, industry backed, coveted wakes. Massive, clean, top of the line.

With flame suit on, i agree with what boomshot has said. My family bought into the Tige' hype in 2001. Same "no ballast needed" TAPS sales pitch, it had constant problems, wake was always small even after adding weight, washy and inconsistent and was sold within 2 years. That experience ultimately ruined my view of Tige'. On top of that, the Tige dealer went out of business here locally about 4 years ago. Last time i had the opportunity to ride behind a Tige' was in 2009 behind an RZ2. The wake was supposed to be awesome with factory ballast and it was horrible IMO.

Boat marketing is changing and the big 3 have it figured out (besides the new MC xstar flop). I was especially impressed with Nautique's G23 release. I can 100% without a doubt know that the G23 hull produces a massive, good quality wake. With the pro tour exposure, I know that MC's Xstar has an awesome wake as well. Same goes for Malibu/Axis with their promotional videos and pro rider's like Chad Sharpe posting videos to his blog of him and other pros shredding behind Malibu wakes. I recently saw a video of Rathy ripping behind a MB, which was impressive as well. I can't say the same about Tige'. Not trying to jump on Dave here, but he's posted pics of the new WakeWorld boat anchored up in the water, on the trailer, etc. but nothing as far as the wake goes. He's stated that he is "playing with the new toy", suggesting to me that the wake isn't up to par yet. How could it be after he rode behind the G23 at the boarding school not long ago?

As far as bashing, blah blah blah - a discussion board is what it is - people's opinions and experiences. I don't understand why someone would apologize for speaking what is truly their opinion. Every brand takes heat over one thing or another and its just part of it. Someone get some decent WAKEBOARD (not wakesurf) wake proof that Tige can produce an excellent wakeboard wake, one that can compete with the big 3 - not just compete style, looks and features wise.

You obviously missed this months cover shot on Transworld Wakeboarding Magazine.That's a Tige Z3 with Adam Errington skying.Here's my challenge Bhyatt. Your THE MAN so i bet i can get more air off the stock unweighted wake on my boat than you can on yours.Apples to Apples same rope length and speed.If your really sure your wake is all that you won't be scared. Remember i'm probably older than your dad.

Truth,
You seem to have an extreme opinion about Tige' I will tell you that I have been manufacturing boats for 30 years, the last 6 with Tige' I have been in every competitors factory and on their boats and I wouldn't bash anyone of them, while they make good boats they are not a better built boat than Tige'. I want to offer to fly you to the factory so you can see for yourself the quality and dedication that goes into each and every boat.

Call me directly 325-676-7777 I will arrange your flight and hotel while you are here I guarantee once informed you will have an entirly different opinon of Tige.

Rick Correll

Classy response that makes me consider Tige.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwb4me

You obviously missed this months cover shot on Transworld Wakeboarding Magazine.That's a Tige Z3 with Adam Errington skying.Here's my challenge Bhyatt. Your THE MAN so i bet i can get more air off the stock unweighted wake on my boat than you can on yours.Apples to Apples same rope length and speed.If your really sure your wake is all that you won't be scared. Remember i'm probably older than your dad.

Troll response that doesn't help Tige's image

On second thought, this should happen. Then we can hook up trucks to see who can out tow who, and then we will get rulers (yardstick in my case) to measure who's manhood is bigger. We will end all of the arguments once and for all!

No, just a confidence test.Let's see how sure he really is about his statement. He stated he never saw a decent Tige wake.I stated it's on this months cover.If his wake is superior he won't need the weight.If i add weight my wake gets bigger also,as does every other wake boat.Both Bhyatt and Bomb Scare say unweighted Tige wake is BS. I'm just saying let's see.

On second thought, this should happen. Then we can hook up trucks to see who can out tow who, and then we will get rulers (yardstick in my case) to measure who's manhood is bigger. We will end all of the arguments once and for all!

Actually I'd be all for a proven way to measure wakes. Wakeboarding Magazine tried it a few years ago, and while I commend them for trying, their method didn't work. That said, they still have shown the best effort at it and I'd be happy to see someone else take a crack at this again. It is one of the biggest impediments to having a serious, objective discussion about boats... wakes... especially stock ones. I would be very happy to do away with this talk of "it's so big it's scary, I was afraid to really charge it...." as much as the "...wake is puny with just the stock wake...." talk. Both stink.

I mean we all have our stories and what we've seen works and what does not work, but someone new to the sport doesn't have that. So when they walk into a dealership and get the "our boats don't need ballast" schpeal, at least there is some mechanism to call the fallacy right there.

By the way, I've personally gotten the "our boats don't need ballast" thing and if anyone is on here that makes decisions about telling dealerships to tell prospects that, I am just one voice but I am asking, please end that practice. It's a huge credibility issue as far as experienced riders are concerned.

The stock unweighted wake is plenty for beginner/intermediate riders.I think all advanced riders and Pros want huge wakes to give them more time with less effort for their tricks.I'm not saying you don't need ballast,i'm saying the stock unweighted wake is awesome and adjustable to different preferences with the Taps.Once you get to the advanced level you need a bigger wake.All the Tige pros i've talked to add additional weight to the pro ballast[2000 lbs] to suit their needs.Tige like all the other manufactures has to limit the amount of "SAFE" ballast since the MC lawsuit.

By the way, I've personally gotten the "our boats don't need ballast" thing and if anyone is on here that makes decisions about telling dealerships to tell prospects that, I am just one voice but I am asking, please end that practice. It's a huge credibility issue as far as experienced riders are concerned.

I could not agree more. Seems like the more appropriate way to approach the topic would be to say something along the lines of, "If you want a big wake that an advanced rider will appreciate, you are going to have to add ballast to any boat, whether it's made by Tige or another manufacturer. It's a fact. However, with the taps system and hull design, our boats will produce a nice entry level wake without the need to pump water into the boat". If a dealer told me that, I'd believe them, that statement wouldn't offend my notion of common sense and make me question the reliability of other information I'm getting from said dealer.

Anyone who knows a thing or two about regulations that are placed on boat manufacturers understands that, in order to receive certain certifications, and to limit liability, manufacturers have to limit the amount of factory ballast that can be incorporated into their boats. I know when I load my A22 up really heavy, the swim platform is like 5 inches under water, and, with an extra 2k in the nose, you have to know how to drive the boat to make sure you don't take a roller over the bow. If a manufacturer produced a boat that, from the factory, could be loaded up that heavy, some walley would sink one in about .02 seconds, drown somone, and the manufacturer would get sued. Point is, I think there is an expectation, industry wide, that you will have to add ballast to any wakeboat to get the wake you want if you are an advanced rider, or simply like a big wake to learn on. I don't know why more brands aren't embracing this understanding and offering plug n play type systems to make it easier to add weight, and bigger, faster, pumps to move tons of water quickly.

You know what would impress me? If someone who owns whatever boat is Tige's current flagship wakeboat would sack the hell out of that boat. I'm talking weight it like I weigh my A22 - 1000lbs in each rear hatch, + 2k in the nose + factory ballast. Run that boat up to 23.5 mph and show me what the wake looks like at 75-80ft. I don't need a wake that big. I don't throw whirly 7's or any 7's for that matter. I'm not that great of a rider. I can't ride at 90 ft at 28mph. I'd kill myself. However, I love hitting a mosteous wake and poking a nice w2w grab, throwing a big crow, tantrum or backroll. I like doing those things at 23-24mph, because when I've had 4 beers and I overrotate my backroll and end up taking a huge digger, I want to live through it. Personally, I think that, from an aesthetics standpoint, Tige is doing a hell of a job. From a wakesurfing standpoint, from what I've seen, their boats rock. Just show me a huge clean wake at 23.5 mph, and bring it all together.

Stock unweighted wake of course is ok for beginning riders. As are the stock equipment setups found in most any boat, including ski boats without a tower. That is not what I am talking about here, I thought that was pretty obvious.

my buddy had what i think was an 07 rz4 which he just traded in for an rzr. I was not a fan of the rz4. I like to ride around 23 to 23.5 mph. when we had the rz4 weighted we would have to go at least 27mph to get a clean wake. it also seemed that if another person jumped in the boat, we would have to speed up to clean it up. I felt like a was slalom skiing at those speeds. I cant wait to get out behind his new rzr. it looks sweet as sh**. hopefully the wake will be clean at slower speeds.

I too am for finding a way to actually measure a wake. I am not for having a pissing contest about who can jump higher on a stock unweighted wake. If I can jump higher on my stock unweighted wake is everybody going to go buy a Mastercraft? I'd bet not, so what are we proving?

Here is an idea. Put a long pole in some water. Add some cloth to the part that sticks out of the water. Mark where the water sits in calm water. Have a wakeboat drive by and hit the pole with the part of the wake where a rider would be riding. Measure the distance between the high water mark and where the water sits in calm water. Video tape it for proof and to double check the marks. I put exactly 3 minutes into that idea. I am sure there are smarter people than me that work for these companies that have already figured out a better way. In a world where I can watch a live sporting event from a phone in my pocket, and where our boats communicate with sattelites in space to measure exact speeds to the tenth of a mile per hour, I am sure we could measure a wave if someone really wanted to. I am guessing the people who can actually do it, do not want to do it. We all know that stock boats do not put out a huge wake, and nobody is going to market that their wake is 'almost two feet big."

Also, manufacturers and dealers have to be careful about encouraging people to weigh their boats over the capacities for which they are rated. It would have to be a magazine or some independent group that would need to do it.

that is what I am saying Chatt, they are not going to want to advertise a smallish sounding size wake which is all most stock (and for legal reasons it would have to be stock) wakeboats are going to throw (even though it is enough for most of the people out there). And if they did, wouldnt' the competition take a picture of one of their pros riding behind their weighted boat and say something along the lines of "We spent our time creating the perfect boat, not with rulers in the water. They are saying their wake is exactly (how ever big they are saying) but look at this photo of Rusty. I'm no scientist here, but in this photo, our wake is clearly bigger than that"without ever mentioning extra weight. That is the reason I am guessing they are not doing it.

You guys have to know WW we are in the minority on the wake thing. The idea the focus of the boat is the biggest wake we can produce. Thats why he has to look at the people he is selling too. My lake is mostly families so a x star, 230 or VLX is not that big of a deal for them. A decent wake that their kids can play on a boat that has tons of room and comfortable is a bigger deal. I think Tige since 05 or 06 has done a great job in trying to cement the multisport boat or that family boat. Everyone I have been in rides freaking great. So if having an insane giant thick wake that only about 5% of the public can use or want is important maybe Tige is not the 1st choice. If thats what you want then your gonna spend over 100k to do it or maybe an Axis will due. Wish I had thought a bit different when I bought my boat. Then again I am old compared to most you guys and have kids.

yea and that thing has like another god knows how much more weight it can take, sitting pretty damn high.
looks like a 750 in the cabin and 500 up front, who knows in the lockers, maybe just the stock 2300.

nope definitely not as big but still huge enough and very clean looking.
JB has ridden the boat i think, im hoping he chimes in on the wake quality he is usually pretty honest.

Since the Z3 is 4640 lbs. plus 2300 lbs of ballast and roughly 350 lbs of fluids.That would put it right at 7300 lbs plus the estimated 1250 extra puts it at a little over 8500 lbs.That should make a great wake.

Back to the OP. it's a business decision to add a dealer, check out the market, the competition in the area, and interview the major brandsthat may be willing to setup a dealer, then see how the money will work for the long term. It's a business plan, not a testosterone competition. My infrequent .02

There is another group of boaters who are just as passionate about wakes as wakeboarders- BAREFOOTERS!
We have argued about wakes in an opposite way(we want the smallest! but we also want symetrical consistant wakes) but also very similar and we concocted ways to measure wakes to compare boats, you guys maybe able to do something similar. check it out here.http://www.barefootcentral.info/Boat...view_Frame.htm

Once you are there click on "How we did our measurements" on the left.

Why do you put ANY cup holders on the floor? I have always wondered this. Seems like an odd design decision to put people's drinks by their feet.

My 1992 Nautique Excel was the same way.Then i got the 2007 Tige,it was the same.I thought nothing of it.To me if you spill a drink it's on your removable carpet and will drain to the bilge as opposed to the upholstery and storage compartments.I guess eveyone looks at features a little differently but that what's good about the forum.Everything gets pointed out from different views.

DBC, your question is valid and is one that we have reviewed many times in the evolution of our product.

With the release of 1 to 2 new boats per year for the last 8 years, we have had many opportunities to change things, but this is one that we felt was absolutely worth keeping. Cup holders have grown to be a VERY important detail in the critique of a new product so we feel, the more the merrier.

We have chosen put a few by your hands a few by your feet, some on the transom and some in the bow...you choose which ones you would like to use. Our latest product has 23 of them. We also realize that you use them for more than just drinks, so we accessorize a lot of them 12v receptacles.

In regards to clean up, the floor has proven to be quite easy (we have even released flooring options that don't absorb but allow liquids to pass right thru it). As for the seats, It's not the vinyl on the seats, its the seams, the creases, the hinges, the places you can't get to and even the items below the seat that make clean up a little more difficult. Or at least that is our thought process. But as said, we have them in both places so the choice is up to the customer, which is the main focus in our efforts.

Ok. I want a garbage disposal in the floor of my boat. Can Tige make that happen? This way, when my kids spill their apple slices, baby food and chips in the boat, I can just rinse it all down into a hole in the floor, flip a switch, and voila! Mess gone. Hahaha. Just joking, but seriously, it would be awesome.

Ok. I want a garbage disposal in the floor of my boat. Can Tige make that happen? This way, when my kids spill their apple slices, baby food and chips in the boat, I can just rinse it all down into a hole in the floor, flip a switch, and voila! Mess gone. Hahaha. Just joking, but seriously, it would be awesome.

I know you were joking,but that is a good idea.Everything could be ground up small enough to flow out the drain plug.You could also have a pump with a hose using lake water to rinse everything down the drain.

if your buddy is in the oh,ky, area. malibu are kings because thats all there is. there is one dealer in cincy they sell malibu, and just picked up nautique.. I think there is also a moomba dealer aswell.

DBC, I think Daniel did a good job of explaining our design reasoning behind the cup holders, I can tell you what I like best I put 150 hours on my Tige last summer in Texas heat and I liked that they drinks were out of the sun and easily accesable too many times when I left my drink in an exposed cup holder I had to dump out half of it because it was already warm, while it might not matter much in Canada but it Texas where we had two months of over 100 deg it is important.

DBC, your question is valid and is one that we have reviewed many times in the evolution of our product.

With the release of 1 to 2 new boats per year for the last 8 years, we have had many opportunities to change things, but this is one that we felt was absolutely worth keeping. Cup holders have grown to be a VERY important detail in the critique of a new product so we feel, the more the merrier.

We have chosen put a few by your hands a few by your feet, some on the transom and some in the bow...you choose which ones you would like to use. Our latest product has 23 of them. We also realize that you use them for more than just drinks, so we accessorize a lot of them 12v receptacles.

In regards to clean up, the floor has proven to be quite easy (we have even released flooring options that don't absorb but allow liquids to pass right thru it). As for the seats, It's not the vinyl on the seats, its the seams, the creases, the hinges, the places you can't get to and even the items below the seat that make clean up a little more difficult. Or at least that is our thought process. But as said, we have them in both places so the choice is up to the customer, which is the main focus in our efforts.

You know what would impress me? If someone who owns whatever boat is Tige's current flagship wakeboat would sack the hell out of that boat. I'm talking weight it like I weigh my A22 - 1000lbs in each rear hatch, + 2k in the nose + factory ballast. Run that boat up to 23.5 mph and show me what the wake looks like at 75-80ft. I don't need a wake that big. I don't throw whirly 7's or any 7's for that matter. I'm not that great of a rider. I can't ride at 90 ft at 28mph. I'd kill myself. However, I love hitting a mosteous wake and poking a nice w2w grab, throwing a big crow, tantrum or backroll. I like doing those things at 23-24mph, because when I've had 4 beers and I overrotate my backroll and end up taking a huge digger, I want to live through it. Personally, I think that, from an aesthetics standpoint, Tige is doing a hell of a job. From a wakesurfing standpoint, from what I've seen, their boats rock. Just show me a huge clean wake at 23.5 mph, and bring it all together.

Chatt, I'm curious to hear what you thought of the Tige Z3 video posted above. I'm pretty sure they are not riding 23.5mph and they are clearly not out there ripping it up and throwing crazy huge tricks or doing anything where one would say the Z3 is 'Game Changing'. The wake looks nice and clean and the boat certainly looks like it could handle more weight. I'd like to see some better shots of the wake from inside the boat.

I'm hoping to get some good video of my RZR's wake this weekend. It has the stock Surf Ballast package of 1600lbs and I just received 520lbs in Pop Bags. That's not slammed in terms of weight but with at least an extra 350lbs in stereo plus people and gear it should be about all I would ever want to do in a 20' boat.

As far as the cup holders, I thought the ones at your feet were a little strange but my kids use them all the time to put their drinks in or their Hotwheels cars in. If there were only 8-10 cup holders in the boat and these 4 were where they are, it might be an issue, but I think I have somewhere around 20 cup holders in my boat, not to mention 2 built in coolers!

The seat cushion does provide some good shade for those cup holders. There are 3 on either side of the main cabin in the cubby behind the polished stainless Tige logo along with LED accent lighting and a protected 12V outlet you can use for charging.

Getting back on topic as it pertains to the OP's question, considering that Malibu has that area locked up, I think it is a bit of a risk no matter what brand you bring in. Competition is good but it can sometimes be quite difficult to get people to step out of their comfort zone or what they perceive as the 'standard'.

The first couple of new boats that roll out of that dealership and out onto the lake will be swarmed and critiqued by all the Malibu owners. The dealer and manufacturer is going to have to really work their butt off to make sure that the launch is a great success by getting the boats out on the water, sponsoring events, getting some pro's out on the lake, etc (I know someone already mentioned this, I just wanted to reiterate).

All that being said (as I turn my hat around, facing forward now where you can see the Tige logo...), I think Tige would be a good choice. Tige has a very broad line up of boats at varying price points. They have great exterior styling (I'm really not a fan of all the V's and wedges in the vinyl in the interior, especially when they are more than 2 colors), a solid and attractive tower, the only clamping board racks available outside of Mastercraft (of which I'll have a new and improved set tomorrow), tons of options and with TAPS2 YOU DON'T NEED BALLAST!

Ok, I was just kidding about not needing ballast...I'm sure I heard that many, many years ago, but I don't remember ever hearing it over the last 2-3 years we have been looking at boats. The wake without ballast, especially in my 20' boat is nice and is plenty for beginner - intermediate riders, but in my opinion, bigger is better, if it is not too steep and we don't have to go 25mph to make it clean.

Again, I think bringing in any manufacturer into this situation will be difficult but not impossible. If the President of Tige and others in the company will take the time to post on a message board and make offers to change someone's opinion of their brand, explain why they chose to place cup holders where they did and release a video of a sacked out Z3 (mysteriously...) the same day it is requested, think of what they would do to support a new dealer in this situation.

TJ. The wake looks nice and clean in that video. It looks like it would be fun to ride. I'm not sure how fast they are going, or what length they are riding, but those factors are important. As you commented, that's a big ass boat and it's far from slammed. Would that wake allow me to do every trick in my bag? I'm sure it would. Would I be content with that wake all summer? Probably not - only because I really enjoy hitting a huge wake because it makes everyting so much easier. I'd like to see that boat with an 1100lb bow sac a 500lb sac in the belly and 1000lb sacs in the rear hatches.

my old Avalanche had cup holders on the floor, it's all good until your heel catches one

If you look at the picture,it would be hard to catch your heel because the seat protrudes out further than the cup holders.In my 20 plus years of boating with cup holders in the floor i have never had any of my guests complain about cup holder location.I have been in lots of other boats that didn't have as large or secure of a cup holder .I've seen lots of spills and accidents[mostly alcohol] where drinks went all over the seat and down in the compartments.I can't believe you guys are insinuating that cup holders and a monster wake with a little extra ballast are weaknesses in this boat.Tige's are sharp,cutting edge design and well laid out boats.The only real negatives you mentioned are dealer force and price.The OP is trying to help in one area and price wise they are very competitive with Malibu.You don't have to be thousands less if you give more of what the customer wants for the same money.

yep, don't like that one bit. First, it is not just concern for your heel, but your toes when facing the cup holders. Also, your heel can easily still make contact because although the seat bottom may protrude, the human leg hinges towards its posterior at the knee, making the impossibly difficult "feat" of hitting a tige designed floor cup holder possible. The human body is amazing..... yes, pun intended, sweet huh?

second, I do not like how it appears that the top of whatever cup, bottle, can in that cup holder will be dead center to the speakers.... marine grade, check.... beer/soda/juice grade ????

third, if I had that expensive of a boat, the rule would be "water only" just like in my boat that is only 4/7 the price of a Z3.... so cup holders are a non issue.

back on point. I still think that the tige's could compete well with malibu and think they match up pretty evenly. And x2 of seeing a new tige wake pics with speed, rope length, ballast, taps setting

If you look at the picture,it would be hard to catch your heel because the seat protrudes out further than the cup holders.In my 20 plus years of boating with cup holders in the floor i have never had any of my guests complain about cup holder location.I have been in lots of other boats that didn't have as large or secure of a cup holder .I've seen lots of spills and accidents[mostly alcohol] where drinks went all over the seat and down in the compartments.I can't believe you guys are insinuating that cup holders and a monster wake with a little extra ballast are weaknesses in this boat.Tige's are sharp,cutting edge design and well laid out boats.The only real negatives you mentioned are dealer force and price.The OP is trying to help in one area and price wise they are very competitive with Malibu.You don't have to be thousands less if you give more of what the customer wants for the same money.

Geez Robert...do you realize that you do more damage to Tige on this forum than the majority of people on here that openly dislike the brand?

I realize you love your boat and are passionate about the brand. I really like my Tige also and think it was the best boat for me, but it is not the end all, be all of wakeboats and it certainly is not without fault.

You can't continue to get all worked up and defensive every time someone points out something they don't like. Well, I guess you can, and probably will but IMO, you are doing more harm than good with the majority of your posts.

Geez Robert...do you realize that you do more damage to Tige on this forum than the majority of people on here that openly dislike the brand?

I realize you love your boat and are passionate about the brand. I really like my Tige also and think it was the best boat for me, but it is not the end all, be all of wakeboats and it certainly is not without fault.

You can't continue to get all worked up and defensive every time someone points out something they don't like. Well, I guess you can, and probably will but IMO, you are doing more harm than good with the majority of your posts.

If I hadn't seen Mhunter on his boat and talked with other CC owners about him, I would honestly believe he and cwb4me and the same person suffering from multiple personality disorder.

Posts by both make me want to buy any other brand than CC or Tige, and sadly those are two of my favorite boat brands.

Geez Robert...do you realize that you do more damage to Tige on this forum than the majority of people on here that openly dislike the brand?

I realize you love your boat and are passionate about the brand. I really like my Tige also and think it was the best boat for me, but it is not the end all, be all of wakeboats and it certainly is not without fault.

You can't continue to get all worked up and defensive every time someone points out something they don't like. Well, I guess you can, and probably will but IMO, you are doing more harm than good with the majority of your posts.

Houstonshark your opinion means so much to me I think I'll just keep posting. Don't worry about me I'm able to take care of myself. As a matter of fact I'm in Texas right now.Passed though Houston last night.I usually stop by and visit all the T.O. Members,but I can tell you have no interest in meeting me.Thanks again for your public support.I really appreciate it and won't forget that bus ride. As normal some Wakeworlders have to single out posters who they may not agree with. I'm fine with that.Eveyone has a opinion and I can see you think mine is worthless,I'll remember that in the future.Happy Boating!

If I hadn't seen Mhunter on his boat and talked with other CC owners about him, I would honestly believe he and cwb4me and the same person suffering from multiple personality disorder.

Posts by both make me want to buy any other brand than CC or Tige, and sadly those are two of my favorite boat brands.

Both are just supporting their brands of choice.If you keep that in mind you will be fine. You really shouldn't buy a boat because you like what someone else says about it.You should buy a boat because it does everything you want it to do well and it fits in your budget.

I own one of the early 22v riders edition..And love it. It has a 900# factory ballast system. I am not real sure why guys get so hung up on that. If you wanted ballast back then all you had to do is pay for it. I think my boat has a great adjustable wake stock, that only gets better with weight. Is it as fancy/blinged as the boats today? Hell no! But its built like a tank. Cup holders on the floor are great..I dont think I would own a boat that didnt have them down there.They are just so convenient IMO.
Back to the original post?? Tige has been picking up steam like crazy the last few years and I am sure you friend has seen this. I am sure thats why he is considering them..and I think he is right on point with his decsion! Good luck to him!

Both are just supporting their brands of choice.If you keep that in mind you will be fine. You really shouldn't buy a boat because you like what someone else says about it.You should buy a boat because it does everything you want it to do well and it fits in your budget.

Thank you for your latest in a long line annoying posts. After a few great discussions with Tony and Chris at Tige, I can only hope your stupidity doesn't end up costing them sales.