Just saw the movie tonight. It didnt meet my expectations but it was ok.

One thing I took away from the movie which led to a mild revelation, was this:

The characters in the movie are trying to plant an idea in someone's mind (by interfering in his dreams but that's not important here). So they are discussing how to do it. They supposedly had already experimented with just telling the person the idea outright in the dream, but that didn't work. The person evidently had to come up with the idea himself, in order for it to take on life and grow in his mind. So they were trying to figure out how to do something to make him come to his own decision.

But the implications of this can be helpful when I look at how God presents the Gospel in the Bible. We all know that God speaks through the use of symbols, images and somewhat "cryptic" phrases. Many here have asked why that is so and I've always fallen back to Jesus' explanation which is so that those who have ears to hear will understand, and those who don't will be confounded. This all goes back to election and so forth.

But now when I look at the idea presented in the movie I can think of another very good reason God speaks through symbolism and imagery.

If there is any validity--and I think there is--to what the characters were saying in the movie, God would not get very far by giving us the whole truth and nothing but the truth, in straight up, easy to understand black and white. In fact the truth of it all is probably so hard for us to conceptualize, we'd probably not even understand if He told us straight up. But anyway, it would mean far less to us than if we--through God's use of imagery and symbolism--come to our own conclusions and discover the meaning on our own!

Evidently (taken all the above into account) an idea has a much greater chance to grow and flourish in our hearts and minds, if it is revealed to us by our own efforts at trying to ulock it--thus infusing our own personal concepts and imagination--resulting in a very personal revelation! Much more powerful than picking up a book and reading some facts in black and white, then deciding if we agree with it or not.

So I think this is very interesting and now I see 2 legitimate reasons why God uses symbols and imagery in His presentation of the Gospel.

Your thoughts?

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

December 12, 20108:48 am

Ninor

Member

Members

Forum Posts: 695

Member Since: April 10, 2009

Offline

2

I also watched this movie for the first time last night. Although I didn't see how it could relate to god/religion, Overall I was disapointed with the movie.

To me, it seemed like it was an adaptation of a good book, that went terribly wrong because it tried to squeeze too much into too short a time frame (120 minutes + or -). It was a very complicated subject matter and the movie didn't succeed in getting the point of it across properly.

The ads for the movie had the best visual parts of the movie in them, and IMHO misrepresented what the movie was essentially about. From the ads, it looks like it's sort of a cross between the Matrix movies and "Knowing" with Nicolas Cage.

I'm a BIG Leonardo DiCaprio fan and will watch anything with him in it with an open mind, but I must say I was disappointed with Inception. I was much more impressed with his performance in Shutter Island ... every time I watch that movie I come to different conclusion to what was actually going on.

December 13, 20107:59 am

frrostedman

Member

Members

Forum Posts: 3815

Member Since: September 4, 2009

Offline

3

"Ninor" wrote: I also watched this movie for the first time last night. Although I didn't see how it could relate to god/religion, Overall I was disapointed with the movie.

To me, it seemed like it was an adaptation of a good book, that went terribly wrong because it tried to squeeze too much into too short a time frame (120 minutes + or -). It was a very complicated subject matter and the movie didn't succeed in getting the point of it across properly.

The ads for the movie had the best visual parts of the movie in them, and IMHO misrepresented what the movie was essentially about. From the ads, it looks like it's sort of a cross between the Matrix movies and "Knowing" with Nicolas Cage.

I'm a BIG Leonardo DiCaprio fan and will watch anything with him in it with an open mind, but I must say I was disappointed with Inception. I was much more impressed with his performance in Shutter Island ... every time I watch that movie I come to different conclusion to what was actually going on.

Yeah I was really fired up about the movie and couldn't wait for it to come out on DVD, and like you was quite disappionted.

And the girl they picked out as the architect extraordinaire annoyed me. She looked about as intellectual as a Shitzu. They could have at least put some glasses on her or something to make her look a little bit distinguished. She was wrong for the part.

They could have done SO much more with that movie. Oh well.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

December 13, 201010:02 am

Wing-Zero

Member

Members

Forum Posts: 3278

Member Since: April 9, 2009

Offline

4

"frrostedman" wrote: And the girl they picked out as the architect extraordinaire annoyed me. She looked about as intellectual as a Shitzu. They could have at least put some glasses on her or something to make her look a little bit distinguished. She was wrong for the part.

If you knew Ellen Page, you'd know that is the character she plays every. single. time. Kind of like Michael Cera, she's a one-trick pony. I think "Hard Candy" was the only movie where she attempted to act something different.

War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life

December 13, 20107:10 pm

at1with0

Member

Members

Forum Posts: 9243

Member Since: April 9, 2009

Offline

5

"frrostedman" wrote: Many here have asked why that is so and I've always fallen back to Jesus' explanation which is so that those who have ears to hear will understand, and those who don't will be confounded.

That applies to a lot of things. Anything to be known that isn't straightforward. The very first example that comes to mind, albeit maybe not the best example, is Calculus. I would expect that God is infinitely harder to understand than Calculus.

As sly as a snake and as simple as a dove.

Evidently (taken all the above into account) an idea has a much greater chance to grow and flourish in our hearts and minds, if it is revealed to us by our own efforts at trying to ulock it--thus infusing our own personal concepts and imagination--resulting in a very personal revelation! Much more powerful than picking up a book and reading some facts in black and white, then deciding if we agree with it or not.

So I think this is very interesting and now I see 2 legitimate reasons why God uses symbols and imagery in His presentation of the Gospel.

Your thoughts?

Well if the words written were put as plainly as could be, it would be a hell of a lot longer. So it has to do in part with the efficiency and economy of language.
Give a man to fish -- plain words.
Teach a man to fish -- revelation through our own efforts.
The words are triggers.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

December 14, 20105:54 am

frrostedman

Member

Members

Forum Posts: 3815

Member Since: September 4, 2009

Offline

6

"Wing-Zero" wrote: [quote="frrostedman"]And the girl they picked out as the architect extraordinaire annoyed me. She looked about as intellectual as a Shitzu. They could have at least put some glasses on her or something to make her look a little bit distinguished. She was wrong for the part.

If you knew Ellen Page, you'd know that is the character she plays every. single. time. Kind of like Michael Cera, she's a one-trick pony. I think "Hard Candy" was the only movie where she attempted to act something different.

I knew I had seen her in another movie or two. It killed me that she played this part.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

December 14, 20105:57 am

frrostedman

Member

Members

Forum Posts: 3815

Member Since: September 4, 2009

Offline

7

"at1with0" wrote: I would expect that God is infinitely harder to understand than Calculus.

As sly as a snake and as simple as a dove.

I cringed when I read the first part. Yuck!

Evidently (taken all the above into account) an idea has a much greater chance to grow and flourish in our hearts and minds, if it is revealed to us by our own efforts at trying to ulock it--thus infusing our own personal concepts and imagination--resulting in a very personal revelation! Much more powerful than picking up a book and reading some facts in black and white, then deciding if we agree with it or not.

So I think this is very interesting and now I see 2 legitimate reasons why God uses symbols and imagery in His presentation of the Gospel.

Your thoughts?

Well if the words written were put as plainly as could be, it would be a hell of a lot longer. So it has to do in part with the efficiency and economy of language.
Give a man to fish -- plain words.
Teach a man to fish -- revelation through our own efforts.
The words are triggers.

I like that "give a man a fish" or "teach a man to fish" thing. Well put!

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

December 14, 20101:49 pm

humphreys

Member

Members

Forum Posts: 2149

Member Since: August 21, 2009

Offline

8

Give a man a fire, and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

December 14, 20105:42 pm

at1with0

Member

Members

Forum Posts: 9243

Member Since: April 9, 2009

Offline

9

That is so true!

Of course it's tongue and cheek but I'm thinking fire in terms of "light a fire under his butt" or "the fire within," that drive.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

December 14, 20109:57 pm

at1with0

Member

Members

Forum Posts: 9243

Member Since: April 9, 2009

Offline

10

"those who have ears to hear will understand, and those who don't will be confounded."

Very, very true of many things, many messages from different sources.

Including some of my favorite music. It's hard on the ears to the uninitiated and lots of it is worthless in terms of spiritual advancement but some of it is of practical value.

Eyes to see ears to hear, of course a lot of this will confound some people by its abrasiveness.

Darkness - swallowing all in its path
The blind leading the blind and the "flock" is ever confused
Who has the gift of healthy sight and mind
Who can withstand while the others are blown away?

Eyes to see...what the others see not
Ears to hear...the voice of the elders guides
Eyes to see...and the blind; they wither away
You fools! These eyes are never for you

Darkness - corrupting all in its path
Greed leading the man to blindness, suffering
And ever foretold...the meek shall have this earth
Alas without sight they will only be left with demise

Worlds apart are they and I
My world remains in sight
Their lives - despair
The "I's" and "They's" cannot compare

The Black Vault Newsletter

Facebook

This site may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in an effort to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. we believe this constitutes a ‘fair use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law.

If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond ‘fair use’, you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.