One thing you hear people say a lot is that men (en masse) are becoming more feminine due to feminism and/or environmental factors. I’m not convinced of this. I have noticed that any example that is supposed to show that men en masse are becoming more feminine falls into one of two categories:

Men aren’t doing what I want. This includes everything from tradcons complaining that men aren’t getting married to women complaining that men aren’t bailing them out anymore to men have different political views than the complainer.

Environmental factors such as lowered sperm counts, BPA, etc.

The problem with the environmental factors category is twofold. First, you have to prove that it’s happening. Second, you have to show that environmental factors are actually leading men en masse to act more feminine. For example, consider lowered sperm counts. The current research shows that lowered sperm counts are not happening. It’s really the media creating panic. Even if that wasn’t an issue, what are the examples given of men acting more feminine as a result of environmental factors? They all fit into the first category of “men aren’t doing what I want”. In other words, citing environmental factors as the cause of men is complaining that men aren’t doing what I want indirectly and hoping no one notices.

Can anyone come up with an objective example of men en masse becoming more feminine? I don’t mean individual examples because those aren’t representative of most men. Plus, a lot of those examples would be tied to a paycheck in some way. Most men would never have the opportunity to “go feminine for pay”. Plus, it ends as soon as the job ends.

Complaints about men en masse becoming more feminine are really self serving attempts to hide that the complainer is pissed that men aren’t slaving away for themselves or for women. What is really happening is that men are looking at the dating landscape, the marriage landscape, the employment landscape, etc. and finding that there is no payoff. Why get married if you will just get ass raped in divorce court? Why bother dating if you can’t find a good woman? Why bother going to college and wasting your money? Why bother working more than the bare minimum you need unless you get paid highly for your time? Why do a bunch of things tradcons, feminists, women in general, etc. want when they won’t provide you equal consideration or anything in return for your work?

What has happened is not that men have become more feminine. What is happening is that men are making LOGICAL and RATIONAL decisions. All complaints about men becoming more feminine seem to be in areas where men have discovered there is no payoff or the payoff doesn’t match the risk or work. Men haven’t become more feminine. Men simply aren’t being idiots. Being able to make logical and rational decisions is something men do. In other words, any complaint about men becoming more feminine is actually an example of men being masculine. Given that enough men are making similar logical and rational decisions, it’s possible that men are now more masculine than ever before. This means that feminism hasn’t feminized men but has had the opposite effect of making men more masculine.

Yes, all of that talk of low T might well be a coded form of male shaming.

In the end the question of low T levels are for medical authorities. The problem is do studies actually say men have low T or is it media sensationalism? The answer is likely the latter, and that’s the case even if there’s some truth to a “low T problem”. I know someone will say that our great-grandfathers didn’t have low T, but do we really know that? Our great-grandfathers were too busy working in the fields or slaving away in factories to have the luxury of worrying about low T.

I think there might be something to how all the talk of low T is coded male shaming. I have been thinking about what I call code lemon shaming language. It’s basically shaming language where the choices men make are medicalized. How many times have we seen accusations of aspergers syndrome used against men (especially when a lot of men and boys who are diagnosed with aspergers syndrome may have been diagnosed simply for being a normal man or boy)? Low T, low sperm counts, etc. may be used in the same way.

This was particularly well expressed at SSM a while ago where there was a lot of hating on hipsters and calling them faggots.

I found the whole episode blizzare but this post puts it into perspective, apparently making craft beers and generally doing whatever you like (anything not involving chasing trim) makes you effeminate and a faggot, go figure.

If I knew hipsters and effeminate men were so loathed by feminists I would have taken to wearing bow ties and cardigans a long time ago, sadly it’s sexy steel cap boots and overalls for me.

This was particularly well expressed at SSM a while ago where there was a lot of hating on hipsters and calling them faggots.

I found the whole episode blizzare but this post puts it into perspective, apparently making craft beers and generally doing whatever you like (anything not involving chasing trim) makes you effeminate and a faggot, go figure.

If you want men to chase women more, increase the number of high quality women they have access to. Men will start chasing women more if there are women worth chasing. Otherwise, men are making the logical and rational decision to do something else.

Think of this hipsters making craft beer as industrious men running a small business making a high quality product. When you think of it in those terms, it’s clearly pretty masculine.

The hyper masculine male is a man with the traits of the feminine. A true masculine man has self control and is humble. A hyper macho thug, is a pussy begging loud mouth. I have noticed women are loud and lack self control too. I think hyper macho thugs are men raised in a female dominated household and trained to be the white knight enforcers of women.

Women hate faggots and weak men because they are not useful to them. Hyper macho thugs who call other men faggots are acting like women.

women believe that men should chase them and provide for them. Women believe that they owe nothing in return and should be able to discard any man for any reason, even if that man has given everything to her. Hyper macho thugs believe men should chase women and sacrifice for them, they believe that women have the right to discard men, because discarded men are weak and not real men. Hyper macho thugs often use exactly the same bitch logic women use.

I kinda get ur logic, esp when it comes to women on their high horse, thinking they can have it all @ their own time. But I recently read somewhere something about it being unfair for a woman to discard a man for the “smallest/slightest” indiscretion. Well, being a woman, I recognize a man’s ingrained need to fuck…what I can’t, & will always fail to understand, is WHY, if he’s married to ME, not only am I supposed to be OK w/it, accept/forgive HIM/take him back, but this “small/slight” indiscretion, is EXPLAINED, AS “just being a man” or “it’s just sex”? Why is it NOT OK, then, 4 women/wives, to get even (not that I would…YOUR ASS’D JUST BE OUTTA THERE…THEN GET SERVED. PERIOD!)? If I sound BITTER, excuse me, but, YES, IT, HAS, HAPPENED, 2, ME…!

You site one study that states that BPA and other environmental Estrogens do not cause Feminization of males and hyper-feminization of females, without telling us who is paying for the study, and we are supposed to take it as fact? All we see are physically weak and feminine beta-males that allow women to cuckhold them, or are homosexual. There are many more articles that show what those chemicals do to the human body and they do affect the hormone production and utilization in the human body.

Now, there are many men that have chosen not to get married and have just left society due to the reasons that you stated, which are valid and completely understandable, but to deny that we are being attacked in a form of chemical warfare is irresponsible on one end, or Criminal if being paid by those who are initiating that chemical warfare. Next you will tell us that GMO’s are perfectly safe and we should eat them everyday. No thanks. Men are supposed to Conan, not the sissy in a pajama onsie that is in desperate need of shots of Testosterone and an ass beating.

without telling us who is paying for the study, and we are supposed to take it as fact?

Who is paying for the studies that say men are being chemically feminized? A lot of the studies you think say that men are being chemically feminized don’t say that. It’s nothing more than media sensationalism.

All we see are physically weak and feminine beta-males that allow women to cuckhold them, or are homosexual.

Maybe that’s all you see, but that’s not what I see. I see plenty of masculine men in control of their own lives. A lot of those supposed “feminine beta males” of yours aren’t. They’re trapped by anti-male legal system not chemically feminized.

Men are supposed to Conan, not the sissy in a pajama onsie

Most men aren’t pajama boy, but they have no interest in following you either. You’re whining that men aren’t doing what you want.

It is not women cuckolding men, it is women using the state to cuckold men. Do you think being masculine and manly enough will defend you from a women if she decides to use the state against you?

You are applying hyper agency on to men, holding them responsible for things beyond their control, while not holding women responsible for using the state against men. You are basically using bitch logic, exactly the same sort of logic women use.

A rational man will realise when the situation calls for withdrawal. A good commander knows when not to fight any battles. A hyper macho twit can be shamed into taking on responsibilities and battles that are not his own by being told to man up.

Jason wrote:to deny that we are being attacked in a form of chemical warfare is irresponsible on one end, or Criminal if being paid by those who are initiating that chemical warfare.

Some people favor a balanced review of the evidence of ‘chemical warfare’ over wild accusations and conspiracy theory.

Next you will tell us that GMO’s are perfectly safe and we should eat them everyday.

Why wouldn’t they be?

No thanks. Men are supposed to Conan,

They’re supposed to be an unrealistic fictional character? Men who need a role model would do better to take a leaf out of the books of men such as Ben Franklin, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Thomas Edison, Donald Knuth, Tim Berners-Lee, Roald Amundsen, and Paul Erdos. They all had to overcome real-world obstacles to get things done, not slay monsters that don’t exist.

not the sissy in a pajama onsie that is in desperate need of shots of Testosterone and an ass beating.

Well, you never know about the onsie-clad sissy, he might be the numero uno WoW badass. I’m an admirer of all types of expertise in men.

As soon as the video said that sperm counts have dropped by half, I stopped watching because it was obviously bullshit. If they can’t get that right, nothing else they say is trustworthy. They’re doing nothing but spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt).

As has been pointed out athletic records keep getting broken which would be impossible if testosterone was dropping so this video has no evidence to contribute.

How do you know that if they got one thing wrong they got everything else wrong?

Because it directly affects their central thesis. It’s not some peripheral piece of data. Also, they completely failed to explain observed facts like men continually breaking athletic records which would be impossible if men were suffering from low T. Also, I’m sure they didn’t actually show that any of this actually led to objectively less masculine behavior as opposed to causing other problems.

I think this is an excellent article. However, there is an example I wish to provide of males being more effeminate. Emo culture. An entire generation of boys imitating girls, gays, and bordering on being trans. They catch phrase of “except me for who I am” and “emo-phobia” really hints that emo culture is a desire, an envy, of the LGBT. They want to feel like persecuted minorities, so they act like chicks, boarder on being trans, and proclaim society’s lack of excepting them is some sort of bigotry. I don’t know if this is the result of feminism. I see it more as the result of a cultural marxist white-guilt, straight-guilt, cis-guilt, male-guilt, minorities first culture. There is no status higher or more sought after than the victim status. Being a victim is the new trend. In the same way that artificial displays of wealth, now we have artificial displays of victimhood. But I do think our culture is less masculine than it once was, but maybe I’m wrong. I didn’t grow up in the 1940’s to watch the social evolution of many generations.

Emo culture. An entire generation of boys imitating girls, gays, and bordering on being trans.

I see the point you’re getting at, but emo is a fad that more or less died out a few years ago. A marginal subculture like that was never widespread among men (or boys) so it’s not an example of the feminization of men en masse.

But I do think our culture is less masculine than it once was, but maybe I’m wrong.

I don’t dispute this, but this is a reason why we see MGTOW/MOO (men opting out) and similar things going on. The culture is more feminized but men are rejecting it. Thus, this is an example not of men being feminized, but of men rejecting feminization.

Men are becoming more feminine as they do whatever it takes to please the women. They are yes-men who cannot say no to their wishes.

Think of this phrase “happy wife, happy life” and that says it all. Men will do whatever it takes to either get laid, or keep their wife happy. If that includes putting down the toilet seat then they will.

There’s lack of leadership and decisions. The dates are now the guy sheepishly saying “ummmm so what do you want to do?” catering to her wishes. Forking up the bill.

Can anyone come up with an objective example of men en masse becoming more feminine?

OK, my theory on this is that men ARE becoming what seems like feminizing, but in fact it is actually both men and women who are being changed, not just men. And they are being changed not so much by feminists, but by homosexual men ( who rule and reign in the fashion industry). Let me give you a wholesale example:

Men are now expected to look like post pubescent boys, and women are now supposed to look like prepubescent boys.

Men: Short croppped hair, close shaven face, all body hair to be “manscaped”, metrosexual ( ie; looks like a pospubescent boy for the joy of homosexuals)

Women: Short hair, pants and shirt, minimal makeup, brazillians, no body hair whatsoever ( ie to look like a prepubescant boy for the joy of homosexuals)

So this works great for feminists; but it is not the feminists themselves that are the impetus behind it.

What is the solution? Look at age old tried and tested masculinity and femininity!

Men: Hair grown between the shoulders and middle of the back, full untrimmed beard, untrimmed body hair, moderate clothing

Women: Hair grown all the way or no shorter than the middle of the back, dresses not pants, no need for huge amount of hair removal because it is covered up, moderate clothing and no makeup needed.

Depends what you mean by feminine. Work and marriage aside, I’ve personally noticed that Western guys, particularly white ones, are more likely to speak with an irritating teenage girl tonation, complain about “unfairness” or hurt feelings, care more about their appearance, engage in sarcastic gossip etc. than guys I’ve met in poorer countries. Take that as you will, but I don’t think this is an improvement on “traditional” masculinity. In fact, I’d say this attitude is the source of the West’s political problems.

The low sperm counts & low toesterone, even though men have 1800% 18x more toest then women, are all cover ups of women’s infertility & shaming men for refusing to marry sluts & going MGTOW

Women are insanely shit at reproducing, due to their shitty diets & poor impulse control & refusal to work, giving most women highly compromised immune systems

It’s typical propoganda

The fact is, as someone else pointed out, its the pagan christians like Dalrock Vox Day Sunshine Mary etc, liberal egalatarian mangina’s doubling down & behaving even more obviously feminine to try & get laid, then they normally would in previous decades

Mangina’s are PERMITTED to behave flagarantly feminine, THATS whats causing society to look as if its become more feminine

Most men are MGTOW, or the odd bluepill man goes postal & kills the odd woman

Men have been masculine & warrior caste’s for millions of years, no amount of brainwashing changes the hard-wiring of a man

It’s all propoganda

The propoganda IS THE HYSTERIA theyre trying to create by stating men are becoming more feminised

I’ve also come across claims in the ‘sphere about dropping sperm counts, and it always seemed odd. Did they actually measure average sperm counts anywhere in the world 50 or 100 years ago? “Please jack off into this cup, dear Sir. Have no worries, it’s strictly for medical research”. Yeah right. It seems bogus.

It’s not just angry women propagating this trope about men getting feminized, it’s also tradcons, as usual. In fact, the whole issue seems like typical tradcon nonsense. That post of SSM about hipsters is a typical example. Tradcons never change. “I was a manly man when I was young, but nowadays young guys are just pussies”. Cool story, bro.

The simple fact is this: men aren’t becoming hypergamous or solipsistic. They aren’t developing interest in any stuff that normally girls are interested in – they aren’t watching soap operas or shitty romantic comedies. They aren’t behaving as a herd. There’s no evidence of any of this happening on a wide scale anywhere.

Trad cons are just as full of shit as left wing liberals. Trad cons believe in a manly masculine past that rewarded manly men, this is pure fantasy. Manly men where cannon fodder for the machine.

A real masculine man will not be manipulated into being a mangina, slave for a female. Masculinity is about being rational and having self control. If Most trad cons don’t understand cause and effect and they blame societies decline on men not being manly enough. Society is being destroyed by women and a dysfunctional single mother culture.

Go visit a high school in your area. You will see a significant number of boys that are not gay, but display more feminine behavior than the girls around them. On the flip side, you will also see a lot of girls for which the word feminine does not really apply.

I can just about see a complete role reversal happening within the next three generations. Girls will be more bulky and will display male behaviors while boys will be shopping and dressing nice and being feminine.

It’s not happening in the adult generation, it’s happening in the next generation.

And it is not something to be alarmed about – it is a symptom of mankind throwing off societal mores and doing what they want to do based on reality.

Rodney Barbati wrote:You will see a significant number of boys that are not gay, but display more feminine behavior than the girls around them.

In the last high school I visited, the girls dressed like skanks and 99% of the guys wore something like jeans and a sweatshirt. It’s probably not that different from a generation ago, except for the specific fashions. Oh yeah, there are more fatties now.

I can just about see a complete role reversal happening within the next three generations.

Guys don’t want to mate with warpigs. If that’s all there is they’ll just fap off to VR porn or use sexbots when they become widely available. Then they won’t have to deal with weight gain, excessive temperament, or body odor in order to get laid.

Girls will be more bulky

That’s the obesity epidemic for you. Trust me, it is not a new standard of attractiveness.

and will display male behaviors

Girls only display male behavior when there isn’t any cost for doing so. So they’ll ooze grrl power all over the place until there’s an emergency and then they’ll run scurrying back into the arms of men for protection. They’ll also be outraged by any male failure to do so.

And it is not something to be alarmed about

No, it’s not, because what you’re saying is horseshit. Human behavior isn’t nearly as malleable as you seem to think it is, especially not sexually dimorphic behavior.

Wow. You know, when you think you are that correct, you are almost certainly wrong. As I said, go check out a high school. I didn’t say imagine a high school or create a mental simulation of a high school in your mind. Go! Go to a high school, then come back and apologize.

In academia and the tech industry, the emphasis on psychology/communication and not on code/logic levels the playing field for women. This is detrimental
to the actual techie who has to be considered a lesser human being, not good with people etc. However another group flourishes : the two faced psychopath or
workplace bully. He has the paradoxical personality characteristics that suit the modern female : He matches the amount of sadism the modern woman displays and
knows how to hide it by acting as a respectable house father. Such a person matches the modern female perfectly.
The effect of feminism on those social environments is the prevalence of such couplings : The narcissistic psychopathic female and her two-faced psychopath
boyfriend/husband. Because of this I think the workplace mobbing epidemic in academia and the tech industry is a consequence of feminism.
So feminism doesn’t cause the feminization of men but causes the wrong type of man to be in power : The two-faced psychopath coward bully idiot.
It’s the stupid female empowering the stupid man, who paradoxically acts like the worst ‘patriarchy’ had to offer : The Dictator.
This is another case of feminism having an adverse effect, contrary to their original intention, if they had any.

Hmmm. I disagree, though it’s possible, at least in part. I do see an increase in straight guys having slightly more effeminate undertones vocally and in demeanor, and it seems to be more in the under-30 age range.

But my first thought was that it has to do with the increasing number of gay men coming out in the last decade or two, and being more in the public eye, whether on YouTube, in film and TV, in the news, on talk shows, etc.

Like when you live with someone you subconsciously pick up some of their mannerisms or catchphrases from mere exposure to them.

It’s the same phenomenon that causes people to adapt to behaviors and lifestyles pushed on the public by politicians and the entertainment industry, as well as use slang and overused references such as “24/7”, “amazing”, bling bling, and most recently, “magical”.