Wednesday, January 07, 2009

Heroic PuGs

Lotsofpeople seem to be have horror stories of doing instances with Pickup Groups. Maybe it's just Skywall, but--knock on wood--I haven't had any real issues with Heroic PuGs. I complain about things, but they're really minor irritations. So far, Heroic PuGs for me have pretty much been veni, vidi, vici.

The only interesting PuG happened a few weeks ago in Heroic Violet Hold while I was Ret. We wiped once on the Voidwalker boss. The second time, three of us died on the Voidwalker boss, but the last two killed it. Unfortunately, we ran back and zoned in, not realizing that you can't do that. So that attempt ended in a wipe.

The third time through, we start it up, and are on wave two when the boomkin announces, "Sorry guys, I don't think this group can do this" and hearths out. We're all like, "What the ... couldn't he have said something before we started!" So we four-man the waves and kill the Voidwalker easily. Thankfully we have a warlock, so at wave 10 we summon a DPS warrior to come help and we finish the instance cleanly.

So I dunno about Horror-story PuGs. On Skywall at least, Heroic PuGs are pretty good.

PuG regular dungeons is a hassle because not everyone knows whats going on or maybe even how to play there class. PuG Heroics isnt too bad because by then people have run the dungeon a few times already and know whats going on and it also seperates the competent players from the incompetant ones.

I continually see PuGs for 10 and 25 man material on Khaz Modan, not just from the Hardcore raiding guilds either.

I suspect the people who complain about terrible pugs are the causes of the strife as well as the victims. 15 seconds of time at the armory weeds out the majority of failures, and drawing from your friends list clinches the deal.

Using the armory is as important to a successful heroic pug as using contraception is to a successful one night stand. Protect yourself.

The funny thing is that I don't take any of the above steps. I don't add people to my Friends List, I don't Armory people, I don't ask for stats or anything. I pretty much just cruise LFG until I see a group that needs me.

yeah I don't really like the armory-ing. I mean, I've ran heroics with undergeared people that were simply on their alts, so they didn't have really superb gear, but they could play the class very well. I've also been in groups with geared people that were just plain horrible (I get the feeling it's a little brother or sister playing the character sometimes).

PuG Heroics isnt too bad because by then people have run the dungeon a few times already and know whats going on and it also seperates the competent players from the incompetant ones.

@RichardOn my server your assumption is an extremely expensive assumption. There are some people who would rather be boosted by your effort once they hit 80, never have even tried the dungeon that they are doing in normal mode. If this was back when the heroic's keys were only available at Revered then your assumption would be mostly safe.

I get a kick everytime I go into a Heroic dungeon and someone is collecting statues or something for some quest back from level 75 (i.e. they never ran this dungeon before). You would also be surprised how many people get both regular and heroic dungeon achievements when after killing the last boss. Even better is getting the "1 emblem of heroism achievement" after the first boss.

I was in a Naxx-10 pug and we are doing pretty well, up to Grobulous, and right before a pull, a member asks, "can you guys wait a second? I really need to go to Org now" and it took him a while to answer why he absolutely had to go org at that moment - it turned out it was because his auctions were outbid and he needed to re-bid on them rightnow! We didn't even have a warlock in our group, meaning it would take him at least 15 minutes. He hearthed out and we kicked him, but that was definitely the most unbelieveable thing I have ever seen in a pug.

I agree with Andrew as I also friends list any good player I PuG heroics with just incase we need a spot filled. I don't PuG much anymore since our guild has gotten bigger but the PuGs I ran before were usually pretty good on Sisters of Elune-US.

I've had great luck with heroic PuGs. My fiance builds the groups though, I know he doesn't armory people but he does friend people who aren't complete mouthbreathers. We pug heroics to great success here on Silver Hand, getting the timed run in CoS almost every day, even when we have people who have never even been to regular CoS before, as evidenced when they win the drake, and then get both achievements at the end.

We pug both 10 and 25-man Archavon and Obsidian Sanctum, while we haven't yet managed to find a pug that can manage to kill Sartharion with one drake up, we have hope for the future. Last week we joined a pug group for 10-man Naxx that ended up doing a full clear in about 7 hours in a single day -- the same group is trying for 25-man this weekend and wants us to come with them.

It's our real hope that we'll be able to see ALL the content of this expansion without needing to ask my old raiding guild for help ^_^

I too build groups from my friends list. But, I've never really considered that a pug, because they are known elements now.

It is when you jump into the waters of the unknown and create or join a group that way that I consider a pug. I've found some great people to play with that way, and some people I never want to play with again. :)

Just about everyone here seems to agree with the post, so I'm gonna have to toss my chips in with the theory that perhaps those who have problems are themselves part of the problem?

I mean, not in every case, of course not, and everyone's had atleast one bad or atleast suboptimal experience for sure, eh?

I do agree with Richard's early comment here tho that, atleast during TBC and early WotlK you could rest assured that people would have some experience, coming into heroics. But now, as people ding 80 on alts and expect to be carried, this might be a bigger problem perhaps?

I've had so so luck with PuG thus far. I've had jackasses bail after one failed boss attempt, and tanks that seem to think they can aoe tank everything (they can't). I've had dpsers that sit under 800 and think they're something special, and idiots that break CC without thinking.

I've also found quite a few decent and even quite good players in my experiences. There's two problems I have with pugging though.

-It takes a long time to find a group, especially if you're dps-The potential for success is rarely worth the time wasted if you fail miserably.

I would expect PuG quality to dip a bit as more casual players reach cap (there are some great ones out there, but on average the skill level is lower). Otoh, the less casual people will have better gear and know the instances even better.

PuG quality varies tremendously from server to server. I recently rerolled on a launch server and have had nothing but solid groups so far leveling up. Roll Alliance on a new/recommended pve server, though, and you will know pain.

You are correct, that is under the assumption of pre-wrath thinking. However, even in a normal dungeon I can tell how the group is going to go based on the first few pulls (from the tank perspective). The absense of heroic keys in Wrath makes it easier to achive heroic grade gear but it fails to keep the 'scrubs' out of the groups that still need to 'learn to play'.

I have to admit most of my PUG experiences lately have been pretty good, but I distinctly remember back in the old days getting into a PUG for Scarlet Monastary where the healer would not stop body pulling in the Cathedral! Didn't matter how many times we told him to stay back, he'd just go skipping forward and drag them all over.