circumspice wrote:I would qualify as a native American only if the one drop rule applied. I had my DNA tested by two different sources. The consensus is that my last full blooded native American ancestor is six generations removed from me. That was slightly unexpected because firstly, I didn't believe the family lore that stated that we had native American ancestry. And secondly because having native American ancestry was looked down upon even in fairly recent times... it was a deep, dark family secret. My family couldn't even agree upon which tribe was the most likely... The two most likely tribes live on the same reservation. One is highly romanticized & the other is virtually unheard of. My vote goes for the lesser known tribe only because people tend to try to inflate their sense of self importance even with trivial matters.

So I won't be claiming Native American ancestry.

This is actually an important issue in post colonial societies and has led to some pretty appalling responses - one Melbourne, white, rabid rightest openly declaiming on the radio that many Koories were fakes simply wanting to get the dole. Had he said this about white groups, jews, etc he would have rightly been hounded, but dark people, not so much.

And we should be rightly dismissive of much recorded evidence. Aas you say claiming you have native blood until very recently was considered disgusting and shameful - In his film Radio Days Woody Allen has a rabbi give him a firm slap for calling him an "indian" and the phrase "touch of the tar brush" was used wherever there were coloured locals. People did not tend to say they had relations with natives. But we know it occured - Somerset Maugham's brilliant story "The Letter" catches it superbly.

Even in the RSA where sex between races was proscribed, liaisons between blacks whites and coloureds (as defined carefully in the race laws) were common even amoung the police squad that was supposed to prevent it.

circumspice wrote: I would qualify as a native American only if the one drop rule applied. I had my DNA tested by two different sources. The consensus is that my last full blooded native American ancestor is six generations removed from me. That was slightly unexpected because firstly, I didn't believe the family lore that stated that we had native American ancestry. And secondly because having native American ancestry was looked down upon even in fairly recent times... it was a deep, dark family secret. My family couldn't even agree upon which tribe was the most likely... The two most likely tribes live on the same reservation. One is highly romanticized & the other is virtually unheard of. My vote goes for the lesser known tribe only because people tend to try to inflate their sense of self importance even with trivial matters.

So I won't be claiming Native American ancestry.

Yep - It's only after the casinos came that anyone would admit to it.That iis here in the US. In Canada it is and was very different, and my very distant Huron native ancestry was no secret.

My mother never spoke about my grandmother, and I only found out about my native ancestry on her side from my cousin and uncle well after her death. I thought it was Monacan until my Uncle Pud died, and a Twigg genealogist first told me about Shawnee Oldtown.

The only Shawnee cultural traits passed on were a love for fried squirrel brains and saying "ahah" very frequently.Genetically, we inherited the Native American survival metabolism gene,and everyone dies of heart attack, stroke, or other complications of diabetes.

But now another funny item - when I went to Oldtown to ask about it, the Twigg children had no knowledge of Stomping John Twigg.He had become "Bent Twig" for them, and they were very insistent about it.It turned out that a trail Stomping John had used was named Bent Twig after the bent twigs used to mark it,and Stomping John's descendants had appropriated it.

Now don't get all jealous on me just because no state park is named after your great great great grandfather.

By the way, the site of the ancestral village has been secured(That is the one the Englishman first visited,when the Shawnee were known as the Massawomeke to the Virginian colonists),and the Dennings will not be getting casino rights in Maryland.

circumspice wrote: I would qualify as a native American only if the one drop rule applied. I had my DNA tested by two different sources. The consensus is that my last full blooded native American ancestor is six generations removed from me. That was slightly unexpected because firstly, I didn't believe the family lore that stated that we had native American ancestry. And secondly because having native American ancestry was looked down upon even in fairly recent times... it was a deep, dark family secret. My family couldn't even agree upon which tribe was the most likely... The two most likely tribes live on the same reservation. One is highly romanticized & the other is virtually unheard of. My vote goes for the lesser known tribe only because people tend to try to inflate their sense of self importance even with trivial matters.

So I won't be claiming Native American ancestry.

Yep - It's only after the casinos came that anyone would admit to it.That iis here in the US. In Canada it is and was very different, and my very distant Huron native ancestry was no secret.

My mother never spoke about my grandmother, and I only found out about my native ancestry on her side from my cousin and uncle well after her death. I thought it was Monacan until my Uncle Pud died, and a Twigg genealogist first told me about Shawnee Oldtown.

The only Shawnee cultural traits passed on were a love for fried squirrel brains and saying "ahah" very frequently.Genetically, we inherited the Native American survival metabolism gene,and everyone dies of heart attack, stroke, or other complications of diabetes.

But now another funny item - when I went to Oldtown to ask about it, the Twigg children had no knowledge of Stomping John Twigg.He had become "Bent Twig" for them, and they were very insistent about it.It turned out that a trail Stomping John had used was named Bent Twig after the bent twigs used to mark it,and Stomping John's descendants had appropriated it.

Now don't get all jealous on me just because no state park is named after your great great great grandfather.

By the way, the site of the ancestral village has been secured(That is the one the Englishman first visited,when the Shawnee were known as the Massawomeke to the Virginian colonists),and the Dennings will not be getting casino rights in Maryland.

EP... You have no more native American ancestry than I have. The difference between you & me is that I can admit it. My mother could have easily 'passed' as a native American. She had thick/course/heavy blue/black hair, brown eyes so dark that they appeared to be black, dark olive skin tone & what our immediate family jokingly called a tomahawk beak/hatchet nose. All her siblings were blond/light brown haired & blue eyed. Her German (maternal) grandmother called her 'colored' & would have nothing to do with her. If you had ANY understanding of genetics at all, you would understand that in common parlance, my mom was a 'throw back' to a distant ancestry. She is the only reason that her family even acknowledged that there 'may' be some native American ancestry in the woodpile. She forced the family to take a look back at the past.

You, on the other hand, are actively trying to prove that you carry some fragment of a fictional native American ancestry. It's rather pathetic & it can be called stolen honor or stolen thunder. The military sees stolen honor all the time & actively fights it. I can imagine how native Americans feel when non-natives try to steal their honor by making false claims. By the way, most cons who want to make claims always study the claim they wish to make very carefully... They need to be knowledgeable in order to try to make their claims seem valid.

Now... If I don't make a claim & I have documented genetic proof, why do you continue to make such spurious claims?

spice wrote:You, on the other hand, are actively trying to prove that you carry some fragment of a fictional native American ancestry. It's rather pathetic & it can be called stolen honor or stolen thunder. The military sees stolen honor all the time & actively fights it. I can imagine how native Americans feel when non-natives try to steal their honor by making false claims. By the way, most cons who want to make claims always study the claim they wish to make very carefully... They need to be knowledgeable in order to try to make their claims seem valid.

Now... If I don't make a claim & I have documented genetic proof, why do you continue to make such spurious claims?

You have read the account of Stomping John Twigg and Mummy Twigg.My DNA agrees with it.So you might want to reconsider your "spurious" comment.And stop your lying.This is no "fiction".

I knew nothing about the Native Ancesty on my mother's side until after I had done my first field survey of man and asteroid and comet impacts in the Americas.I was siting t dinner with my cousin and uncle and I showed them my photos from that field survey,and that is when it came out.You have to remember that my mother hid her native ancestry all of her life.

My Shawnee ancestry on my mother's side is simply a fact,as is my distant Huron ancestry on my father's side.They are no cons, and I do not appreciate you calling me a wannabe conman.

We have preserved our ancient settlement,and there is no way in hell that the Dennings will ever get casino rights in Maryland.If the Loyal Band members want to remove them from leadership, that is their decision.There is just so much shit we will take.

You need to keep this in mind as well, spice.We all know what you think of the Bible;I am definitely not a spiritual guide,but I do take asteroid and comet impacts very seriously.If the book of Joshua happens to preserve memories of an impact eventthat are well attested in contemporary sources,attacking me will do nothing to change that.