1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 243. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined. Proposed 2 on all with the exceptions of 4 on objective territories and 6 on Main Stash

Just done:

1. paperclip colour made red so it's more prominent.2. stroke around boss and muscle changed. I think they're quite readable now.3. large and small version

To do:

1. graphics stamp

Points of Discussion:

1. I guess Lanyards is out for a while so I need someone to do XML centering and to check my XML which I've already written. I think some gameplay changes have happened since then so those need fixing.

I know it's a game, and that it's a game about war, but by being such it glorifies war and ignores the violence associated with it. There are certain types of violence that don't need to be glorified any more than they already are - if we make a map that diminishes the impact of a form of violence that lies close to people in their day to day lives, such a map would be in bad taste.

Of course, it will always be a matter of opinion where we cross the line of bad taste; making a concentration camp map would be considered by most to cross the line, as would a map of Columbine High School, UVa, or the Omaha mall where the shooting took place recently. The Iraq map is personal to many, and has had many detractors. This idea may be in bad taste as well, as it has already provoked some negative feedback..

if I hadn't mentioned 'The Wire' would babinecz have mentioned anything? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm sure he'll say he would've, but we'll never know. The first response to a thread can have a big impact on how other people react to that thread.

if I don't get any feedback on the map itself and the gameplay, then it won't matter at all because the map won't go anywhere.

Maybe someone can explain to me how this map is glorifying drugs and the violence associated with it. I just don't see it. I'd rather just get gameplay feedback though.

I personally don't have an issue with this map as it doesn't seem to glorify any thing in particular, although it is extremely basic at the moment. It coudl be that this map just reflects some of the relationships and realities in the drug world. You are walking a fine line and I wish you luck. I can't make any comment on the game play because its too rudimentary at this point, kinda looks like bacteria or something.

I will say that in my supermax map, which actually does glorify gang and prison violence, I haven't had one comment complaining about that aspect, which is why I am a bit confused that people automatically have an issue with this one. Your best bet is to accurately reflect your topic and have some better graphics to show its not what some people think its going to be.

If you really think this is a map worth making (and based on the above outline I'll need some more convincing) then you should proceed. If you are thoughtful and keep the graphics tasteful it should be fine.

This looks pretty educational to me. If you make the drug aligned look really undesirable and very very away from cool (dirty) then I don't see a problem. Make the police look very much like the good guys in this scenario, like the D.A.R.E. dog, Superman and such.

As long as you aren't encouraging anyone to actual be a drug lord and you make the map feel more like you are attacking the drug lord then being one it should be pretty good.

Coleman wrote:This looks pretty educational to me. If you make the drug aligned look really undesirable and very very away from cool (dirty) then I don't see a problem. Make the police look very much like the good guys in this scenario, like the D.A.R.E. dog, Superman and such.

As long as you aren't encouraging anyone to actual be a drug lord and you make the map feel more like you are attacking the drug lord then being one it should be pretty good.

It's a good idea if it is presented right. You make the drug guys look like all the sterotypical criminals in like Lonney Toons and whatever (old middle aged, unshaven or big and stupid looking, or baby sized with an ugly face, you know, people kids don't idolize at all) and the good guys like the cool police officers in a lot of anti-drug stuff I think it would be funny for us old people and pretty good for the younger players.

You'd need to word the bonuses more of like pursuing the bad guys though, like a continent of thugs would be "Isolated Mickey's Gang" or something instead of "Controlling Mickey's Gang".

Corner and arrest the gangs, recover the stash, put them in jail, save the day. That kind of thing. (And doing it before your opponents)

Coleman wrote:It's a good idea if it is presented right. You make the drug guys look like all the sterotypical criminals in like Lonney Toons and whatever (old middle aged, unshaven or big and stupid looking, or baby sized with an ugly face, you know, people kids don't idolize at all) and the good guys like the cool police officers in a lot of anti-drug stuff I think it would be funny for us old people and pretty good for the younger players.

You'd need to word the bonuses more of like pursuing the bad guys though, like a continent of thugs would be "Isolated Mickey's Gang" or something instead of "Controlling Mickey's Gang".

Corner and arrest the gangs, recover the stash, put them in jail, save the day. That kind of thing. (And doing it before your opponents)

Coleman wrote:This looks pretty educational to me. If you make the drug aligned look really undesirable and very very away from cool (dirty) then I don't see a problem. Make the police look very much like the good guys in this scenario, like the D.A.R.E. dog, Superman and such.

As long as you aren't encouraging anyone to actual be a drug lord and you make the map feel more like you are attacking the drug lord then being one it should be pretty good.

oaktown wrote:I know it's a game, and that it's a game about war, but by being such it glorifies war and ignores the violence associated with it. There are certain types of violence that don't need to be glorified any more than they already are - if we make a map that diminishes the impact of a form of violence that lies close to people in their day to day lives, such a map would be in bad taste.

Of course, it will always be a matter of opinion where we cross the line of bad taste; making a concentration camp map would be considered by most to cross the line, as would a map of Columbine High School, UVa, or the Omaha mall where the shooting took place recently. The Iraq map is personal to many, and has had many detractors. This idea may be in bad taste as well, as it has already provoked some negative feedback..

I agree with Oaktown on this one.
With the major debate currently going on about Flame Wars, which I see as an effort by CC brass to present a more family oriented site, I think this idea, while having some merit, may be pushing the envelope a little too far.

i'm sorry man, but i live in baltimore (as i'm sure many other poor areas of cities are like) and it's not cool like the wire...it's probably just a sore topic of mine, but people watch the wire all the time and think "oh yo, marlo is the shit." I'm not saying that you see it that way either, but the idea of making the map with "stash houses" "runners" and "corner boys" is testament to the very same glorification of it. Lots of lives are destroyed everyday and have been being destroyed for the past 30 years. It's messed up shit. maybe it's just me though. There are no maps that speak to contemporary issues (iraq war map under discussion, and i understand those who object to it), and I believe there is a reason for that. That's all I'm saying.

well when I sit down for an hour or two to clean this up, what I'm going to do is make it somewhat like a tic-tac-toe board. What I mean is there will be two horizontal and two vertical roads. Instead of the lined attack routes I have now, it'll be easier just to separate the areas like a normal map.

As for the graphics, I'll leave that to whoever ends up doing it (if I can find someone). I hadn't thought of doing it in a cartoony way. But, that might work. I thought that this map could be a good opportunity for someone to show us some good looking city graphics.

I'm not glorifying this subject by any means. It just happens to be something that, in my mind, works well for a CC map. Hold a corner (notice that the patrol car is part of the corner) for a bonus. You can think about that as putting them away if you want. Two objectives, one for Police one for the Gang. In my mind, if it's something that you personally are against and don't want to play, then that's fine. But, at the same time, that's not a reason why other people should not be allowed to play on it.

I realize this subject is sensitive as people die or have lives ruined from drugs or the violence that surrounds it everyday. We do have the Bamboo Jack map which is also part of a touchy subject. Perhaps like that map, a suitable quote for the drug war type situation could be added. I'm not saying that makes everything OK, but it does at least acknowledge the bad situation.

That being said, I'm going to pursue this idea until I'm told by Andy or Lack to stop. Or, until I see that the foundry is not supporting the idea.

On a gaming site that is devoted to war and violence (albeit imaginary), this is just a different take on it. We have maps about Pearl Harbour (or Harbor in US speak) which surely could be regarded as a far more criminal act, with a vastly higher actual death toll, than what's being proposed here? But the map still got made.

The Bamboo Jack POW map has already been mentioned, that had a far higher casualty list against defenceless POWs (having surrendered, and not even in armed and armoured battleships) and civilians. I think 20-25,000 men died building that damn railway. But the map still got made.

And we then have all the other maps where the spirit of fun shines through, which is what this site is about - playing against your fellow man (or woman) and cursing the evil dice! To me this map suggested that some of the police are in the pay of the mobs, well perhaps they are, but if u can get a bonus by stamping that out then we have a crusade against crime map. The cartoon-style could be a laugh - remember these guys from Bugs Bunny? http://content.answers.com/main/content ... _Mugsy.jpg

Make the map if you can, then let the folks here see a draft and then we can see what we think?

The other thing you could do is to add a Prison section, and if u control the Prison and/or a gang area or a police area, adjust the bonuses to reward the cops or punish the bad guys!

remember that the other three corners that have no labels or borers will be the same as the SW corner.

here's a slightly better draft that I think makes it easier to discuss gameplay. As I said, I don't see myself doing the graphics on this one, but I'd prefer the realistic route graphics-wise. I was thinking something old-school GTA style with the overhead look. So I guess slightly cartoony, but in a realistic way. Again I think the city here is a big opportunity for someone to go wild with the graphics.

Again, 24 starting territories and the main goal is to get people to go for the objectives. I think each starting neutral will have the standard three armies INCLUDING the main stash. This helps direct Objective play and either Objective requires six territories, so it's not exactly a cakewalk.

I changed a few gameplay quirks.

1. No more attack lines. It's just much easier to do it this way.
2. Patrol Cars connect to each other only directionally not to every single one.
3. Changed a few of the bonus numbers
4. Patrol cars only connect to PEOPLE in the sectors (not to phones, stashes, or garage).

Lets get some gameplay discussion going!!

Last edited by edbeard on Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

1. I forgot to put the phone in the Vacants. There is supposed to be one there.
2. The legend still has some of the old names like Prosecutor instead of D.A. and Captain instead of Commissioner
3. I didn't explicitly mention that the bonuses such as Junkie + Stash only occur in their respective sectors. So, I can't hold the SW Stash and the SE Junkie to get a bonus.

What do you guys think about making the objectives slightly easier. I was thinking of possibly reducing the number of territories needed somehow. Possibly splitting them up into four instead of two. So, there would be four different objectives.

1. hold the D.A., judge and Main Stash
2. hold the Dectective, Junkie CI, and the Main Stash.
3. hold the Leader, 2nd, and Main Stash
OR
4. hold the Supplier, Driver and Main Stash

If this was the case, I'd probably add another connection to the Supply sector. Possibly something like Supplier and Leader directly connect.