I found this discussion at ask.lef.org/3909/Should-Life-Extension-Relocate-to-China

I found it to be a very deep and serious debate on whether medicine will advance more in China or the West. I will post the debate here:

Chutzpah: Let’s face it: all vitamins and supplements will be banned in America. Why? Because the percentage of voters that are uneducated is growing. Statistics clearly show that the less educated a woman is, the more children she has. Less educated people are more likely to be deceived by politicians and less likely to engage in any intellectual activity like reading about health science from sites like Lef.org.

China is the coming dominant world power, as the United States, Europe, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand become third world due to more and more of the voters being uneducated. And China is a nation where the elites work for the benefit of the citizens, as opposed to it. They value honest medicine and already believe in the type of science espoused by Life Extension.

Since Life Extension is sure to be criminalized in the United States, as well as in the above countries mentioned, the only way for this company to survive and grow exponentially is to relocate to China, who would welcome the company. China is the only country that will colonize and expand through outer space, and the only country that will transhumanistically augment themselves, so it would be good for Life Extension to become part of that.

Thoughts?

Chutzpah:Life Extension can relocate its headquarters, clinics, and research facilities to China, but keep a branch and warehouse in the United States. This way, people in America can still get the products while they are still legal. But once they are all criminalized, LEF would just have to close the USA operations, while the main operations could still continue in China. This would ensure the survival of the company.

oscar2u:Well, you do have CHUTZPA, I must say. I have grown very discouraged with the leadership of the USA over the last 30 years or so. I am far from ready to give up on our Nation, though I am do get discouraged. I say fight back and reclaim our Nation. I know we American`s still have a lot going for us as a people. These international corporations have far too much influence and no loyalty to our Nation. We have allowed the pigs to take over and need to fight back. I refuse to give up on our Nation. So, I say no to your proposal. Why would I ever want to become a weener who simply gives in to such thinking as you suggest. ...Oscar

Chutzpah: Well, you are free to keep on thinking that voters, who after sixty years have still not seen the irrationality of the war on drugs, will suddenly grow a brain. Everyone needs some type of faith: me, I like to think that after I die, I will go to Star Wars land.

Chutzpah:Did you know that in China, stem cells are already being used as a standard medical procedure? For example, stem cells are being regularly used to grow insulin producing cells in the pancreas of diabetics, reducing or eliminating their need for insulin injections. China even uses stem cells to improve vision in the visually impaired, I believe. Western nations and Australia/New Zealand keep on lying and saying that we are hundreds of years away from being able to use stem cells for anything.

China is the future of the world.

Chutzpah:I suggest that all transhumanist scientists and companies relocate to China, since such technologies will be banned in America, Canada, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand. This will be the only way to save transhumanism.

Chutzpah:It is my understanding that the Chinese currency is artificially kept low, thus artificially keeping the worth of its GDP low. But if it was allowed to rise naturally, the currency’s worth would double, meaning that China’s true GDP is actually 12 trillion, on par with the United States. But with a growth of 10% a year, it will surpass the United States in one year.

oscar2u:What has gone so very wrong with our Nation?

Chutzpah:And the thing is, no politician is to blame; rather, it’s uneducated voters who put people in office. This is the way it has always been in the West, and how it will always be in the West. But, China is very different. Israel is also very different. I think the future will belong to China and Israel, the two greatest nations in the world.

Chutzpah: I think LEF should ask the Chinese government if they can work with the science and research department of the Chinese FDA. I think the Chinese government would be thrilled about the idea, given the fact that LEF is the world leader in health and medicine.

Chutzpah: I have noticed that people of European descent tend to be quite delusional regarding just how "great" they are. Even as they fall, they think they are among the stars. So be it: as I said, everyone needs something to believe in.

Personally, I plan to invest in the future of Israel and China, not the European-derived nations. For example, I donate money to pro-Israeli causes, and I only buy goods made in China and Israel. I am also learning to speak both Mandarin and Hebrew.

Anyway, I think I've made it quite clear what LEF needs to do if they want to survive. I won't post any more on this subject: thread closed.

Chutzpah:Keep in mind that a “human right” is a man-made moral postulate; one cannot use the scientific method to prove the existence of an absolute human right, as one can with things like atoms, electromagnetic forces, and biological cells. “Human rights” are moral beliefs created on the basis of popular moral fashions of the time, and its principles change each year, generation, and century. Back in the days, European-derived peoples thought they had a human right to enslave non-European people.

Therefore, the Chinese version of human rights will differ from the modern Caucasian version; same thing with Israel. Each culture is different: European derived peoples don’t have a moral monopoly on the world.

The main difference between China and European peoples with respect to defining human rights is the idea of the good of the whole versus the good of the individual: China places more emphasis on the good of their people as a whole and less on individual ambitions at the cost of the larger community. European-derived peoples do the opposite: the good of the individual takes precedence over the good of their culture as a whole, hence the preponderance of white collar crimes and economic and political corruption.

Did you know that the last Chinese FDA leader took money from a pharmaceutical company to approve a prescription substance that did not work? He was EXECUTED! The good of the society before the good of the individual. You would never see such executions take place in European derived nations.

dishinger:but you are completely at mercy of the Chinese’s government's whim; don't get on their bad side.

Chutzpah: The Chinese people and government are very communitarian: as long as a company is working for the interests of the people, culture, and nation as a whole, the government and people will support you. If an organization like Life Extension relocated there and strictly kept to science, they would be welcomed. But, if the company started to preach libertarian philosophy and Ian Randism, then they would be booted out.

dishinger:YOU MAY HAVE forgotten all the people who came before you that were giants in the filed of orthomolecular medicine(or as life extension states nutrients) people like DRs Frederick Klenner, Humphrey Osmond, Linus Pauling, Abram Hoffer. John Smythies and hundreds more.

Chutzpah:I agree with you that .0001 percent of European-derived peoples were good scientists and inventors: Neils Bohr, the Wright brothers, Dmitri Ivanovich Mendeleev, Francis Crick, and so forth.

These extremely rare individuals were so intellectually different from the majority that they should be considered a completely different species: they do not in any way represent the overwhelming majority of Occidental people.

oscar2u:You did not mention: Henri Poincarre, the originator of SPECIAL RELATIVITY, or James Maxwell, or Hendrick Lorentz. These are the people that developed the mathematics and theories that Einstein is so often credited with. Or Tolver Preston who came up with the equivalent of E=MC squared before Einstein was even born. And M. Faraday, B. Franklin, T. Edison and on and on. Read about Maxwell here:

Chutzpah:I did not mention thousands of European geniuses: there are maybe about 5,000 that have ever lived, which makes about .0001 percent of all Caucasians that have ever lived, and a people are defined by what most members are like, not what .0001 percent of them are like. When one visits those white supremacist forums (which you apparently are a member of), they make the claim that they are superior because of what only .0001 percent of them have accomplished.

And you are forgetting the main point of this thread, which is that honest medicine cannot exist in the West because your elites are all corrupt and your voters are all stupid. The European Union has recently banned all vitamins and supplements, and America is soon to follow. And medicine has been 100% fraudulent in the United States for the last 70 years. These are the facts you need to be looking at.

dishinger:So I say, don't support Israel or China till they get away from these crude human actions.

Chutzpah:Interesting philosophy: don't support any nation unless they agree to act like white people.

oscar2u:I am not a racist. I treat people the way they treat me. You started all this racist crap with your insults toward people with a European ancestry. I guess you figure people such as me are supposed to sit back and allow you to insult us because we are have a European ancestry.

Chutzpah:It is because of your ancestry that you are failing, but you are too racially proud to admit it. It is in my interest to make your people see this so that transhumanism can continue on, and China is the nation that can keep transhumanism alive, since applied transhumanism has been banned in all European-derived nations.

Shawn24:I thought this website was about healing and all the various ways to help others in need.

Chutzpah:I'm not employed by Life Extension: I'm an independent poster on this forum, sharing a view most likely not held by anyone who uses LEF products. But, if enlightened individuals want to avoid the de-evolution trend the European-derived peoples have been experiencing for the last 120 years, they need to strap themselves on the backs on the Chinese, a people that are experiencing upwards evolution. Transhumanists need to forget about the idea of European-derived nations making it to the intergalactic age: they instead will go back to the age of cavemen. It really is not a big deal: things go extinct all the time: some people are just an evolutionary dead end.

Chutzpah:The general trend in European-derived nations is a negative correlation between intelligence and fertility: as intelligence goes down, fertility goes up. The most educated people have one child on average, average people have 2 offspring, and those with below average intellectual abilities have 4 offspring on average. This means that a higher and higher percentage of the population lack adequate intelligence to vote rationally and to prop up an advanced nation.

On the other hand, the government of China maintains a very strict control on reproduction, making sure that the most children are had by the educated classes. And a massive sperm-bank of professors and scientists is maintained so that hundreds of millions of women can be inseminated by geniuses.

So, you tell me, which culture will become intergalactic?

One reason that China can pull off transhumanist reproduction is because they have an extreme sense of inter-connection with each other: personal selfishness can easily be self-controlled for the greater good of the society as a whole. But in the West, all efforts are focused on individualism and personal ambitions: each man is an island, fighting a war against all his fellow countrymen. In the end, the more cohesive and communitarian society will out-perform the more individualistic ones.

Chutzpah:One good thing about China is that they are the most peaceful nation in the world, relatively speaking. Even after they evolve into a new superior species, they will leave the world alone in peace.

good way to make money in China...................just call yourself an America/ European company.

I've made my living, Mr. Thompson, in large part as a gambler. Some days I make twenty bets, some days I make none. There are weeks, sometimes months, in fact, when I don't make any bet at all because ...

I've made my living, Mr. Thompson, in large part as a gambler. Some days I make twenty bets, some days I make none. There are weeks, sometimes months, in fact, when I don't make any bet at all because ...