Bagwell and the insurance policy; Vince to the Dolphins?

Well, the claim was rejected by the insurance company. Now the team will be without the money and Bagwell. Thanks for costing the team $15.6 million Bags. It’s nice to see that we still have such great players around that put the good of the team above ego. That’s $15.6 million the Astros can’t spend on capable players. I’m pretty mad at my former favorite Astro right now.

I’m told by experts in the field that the Astros had almost no chance of collecting after he was placed back on the active roster in September.

That’s why the club called him in and told him he might not be activated because of the insurance policy.

Drayton McLane said the chances of collecting were lowered ”50 percent” when he allowed Bagwell to be activated.

I’m not sure McLane had a choice. My understanding of the collective bargaining agreement is that a player can’t be kept on the disabled list if he feels he’s ready to play.

The Astros based the claim on the fact that Bagwell couldn’t throw, but the insurance company apparently said: “Disabled? He got a game-winning hit in September. He started two games in the World Series.”

About the only chance of collecting was for Bagwell to say last August: ”That’s it, I’m done.”

He still wanted to play. He thought he still had a chance. He hasn’t given up yet.

The Astros said they will appeal the denial. Maybe there’s a compromise number in there somewhere.

As for Clemens, I’m guessing McLane will still sign him if he has a chance. The insurance issue might not be settled for years. The last thing he wants to do is see Clemens pitching for the Rangers.

But if the Astros are in first place in May and if the Rangers are offering huge money, who knows?

• • •

Dolphins coach Nick Saban was at Vince Young’s workout last week in Austin. He seemed to be on his cell phone the entire time Young was working out, but he must have been impressed with what he did see.

31 Responses

This is a promise. The Astros and the Insurance company will settle their dispute at somewhere between $6 and $9 million before it is done. This is typical of almost any type insurance claim. The insurance company denies the claim, makes you hire a lawyer, fights like hell, tells you why your claim is no good, pays a few politicians to accuse lawyers of being greedy and then settles. There is no way the insurance company will take this claim to trial. If they lost, they would be exposed to punitive damages for bad faith and risk much more that the $15 million policy amount.

I refer to the above posted email. I’m glad that Bagwell did not engage in insurance fraud by manufacturing a claim. If McClane’s policy doesn’t pay off then he has homself to blame, not Bagwell. Next time, pay close attention to the terms of the policy and purchase a policy that will cover the risk.

In regard to Vince Young and Miami, it would be ironic if he ended up on Dom Capers’ team. (Hopefully, Dom will confine himself to the defense, but who knows?) If the Texans are too dumb to draft Vince, I hope Bud Adams brings him to Tennessee.

Oh come on. I thought that all insurance companies sent a letter denying payment on a large claim as a routine way of business. I would have expected this just as much as I would expect for social security to reject anyone the first time they file for disability benefits. Of course you have to appeal. All this means is that the matter will end up in the courts. Just legal mumbo jumbo…Yada, yada, yada…

Best case would be for both sides to decide to halt the legal expenses and agree to a settlement somewhere in the middle. Otherwise spend a bunch on legal costs and end up in court, and the lawyers end up raking in the dough.

I still wish the very best for Jeff Bagwell and for the Astros team. Or even better yet, after Jeff has his surgery he comes back to pinch hit and DH during our post season run to the WS again. Go Astros.

Looks like the Astros will not be able to recover any of the $15.6M of Bagwell’s salary.

Doesn’t this now preclude the Astros from signing Roger Clemens? Paying both Bagwell and Clemens would put the Astros way above payroll. (near $100M by my estimates.)

While the bullpen is still intact, the Astros may struggle to squeeze quality innings out of their starting staff.

Pettitte and Backe have battled injuries, and it would be asking a lot of Oswalt to churn out yet another stellar season, especially considering all the innings he’s racked up in the past couple of seasons and post-seasons.

Maybe one of those young guns will step it up…

…Or maybe we can convince Jimmy Deshaies to hop out of the booth and start a few games.

It’s not suprising that the insurance company rejected the Astros’ claim. Insurance companies don’t usually turn loose $15M payments without a fight. I thought that this would be headed to litigation (or arbitration depending on the policy terms) from the beginning. No one should have been expecting the Astros to receive any financial benefits this season.

I’m pretty much in the same boat as the previous post quoted. Everyone talks about what a great team player Bagwell was but he really let the team down. He was going to make the money either way but he could not let it go. I’m very disappointed in him as a player. I think Drayton and Garner did everything they could to honor his legacy by playing him in the World Series when it would have been better to have both Burke and Lamb in the game instead of him. Then he turned around and punched the city of Houston in the stomach. I wish him well in his retirement.

- Honestly what did you expect Bagwell to do? Retire and walk away after the team pretty much told him they were not going to give him the chance to play after all he had given and sacrificed for the team over the years? I guess all those other years hes been here producing and making his stats and defering salary/taking lower price contracts to help out the Home team sign other good players are now overlooked because he wants to get paid on the last year of his contract and the team tells him they are not going to do it now because he got injured? He somehow became greedy overnight for still trying to play after rehabbing?

Exactly what has Drayton done with all the money he saved from Clemmons and Bagwells contract??

Ill tell yah – he did nada for the team or You and I the fans. Oh and btw you and I can expect Higher priced Tix and concessions next year as an added bonus for the team saving all that money.

Please – Uncle Drayton take your poor mouth talk and go stuff it somewhere and sell the team to an owner who supports this community and players as its been made obvious more than once now – your out for the Bucks $$$. I’m not buying your whole “its better for the team” bs line and neither is most fans and the MLB.

Honestly what players has the team brought in to improve the club since the World series loss with all the money they saved on Clemmons and Bagwell?

Oh wait thats right – they signed a veteran out fielder who hits very average for a tad over 4 million. – Wow – Let me stop the presses now on that news story. Meanwhile every other team tryign to compete in this league is clamoring to try and sign Clemmons – yet you somehow felt he wasnt worth the money? The NL leader in ERA who took you to our first World series is somehow not worth the money?? Please tell me Drayton – Who is worth it then – IMO you blew it on the hometown discount thing for everyone youve brought in like that and now eveyrone knows it. You think Clemmons hasnt talekd to his buddies aroudn the league saying how much of a cheapskate you have been? How you say your willing to do whatever to help improve the team – that is until it takes you opening your wallet. Now Drayton – your going to have to pay thru the nose like alot of other teams to even get a whiff at a decent player again directly because of how you have handled thigns with these hometown players. I know I wouldnt want to come play for your team especially after seeing how you handled the deals for both of your “Home town” Stars this year.

For the record IMHO it wsnt ego that forced Bagwell back on the field – it was Uncle Drayton’s insensitive approach and ostrasizing of him during the off-season and rehab process to the point Mclain never even bothered to try and talk to his supposed “Good friend” during the process but deferred to talking thru agents and de-personalizing the whole subject right up until after the field their claim. IT wasnt even until after the claim was filed that “Uncle Drayton” even bothered to try and talk to Bagwell directly. TO me – thats a horrible approach to an interpersonal relationship with someone whom you call “Friend” Drayton. Like you mentioned in your interview you treated him like he were a piece of merchandise that had broken – Not the long time friend, hometown hero and person you said you cared for and about.

IMHO the Astros organization and Uncle Drayton have only themselves to blame for completely mangling this offseason so bad I would be surprised if they got anyone decent to play here again for some time.

In conclusion – After Uncle “poor mouth” Drayton saved all this cash by not resigning, Clemmons, kicking Bagwell to the curb and treating both like they were not very important to the franchise at all – he went around telling everyone how thigns were so much better and then promptly dissapeared from the limelight as I think he finally realized how bad he began to look to everyone on the outside of the situation. This whole ordeal has came off as very bad PR wise for a team coming off its first ever World Series appearance and it could have and SHOULD have been handled so many different ways – Yet it wasnt – Instead the Astros choose to file a claim and then told there hometown star Bagwell he was not going to be allowed to play nor activated even if he wanted to be. That they had allready determined for him – he wasnt goign to play again. They never gave him any chance at all to succeed and have made what could have and should have been a process that involved Bagwell perhaps becoming a part of the Astros organization and retiring on a good note. Instead they never even bothered to try and show any modicum of respect for the hometown hero and franchise player who has taken so many hits for the home town team, but bottom line when it came down to it – They were unwilling to do the same for him.

Good luck getting Clemmons or anyone decent to play here again after this year Drayton – You and yoru staff have managed to make our first year after a world series one to remember for decades to come and not in a good way.

Everyone needs to get off of Bagwell for just a second. Do you remember when we needed better players in years past? How about Moises Alou? Jeff Kent? Andy Petitte, Roger Clemens?!? I am not sure if Bags re-structured his contract for every one of these guys, but he sure as heck did it a few times during his career. What you are seeing now is the “back end of the deal”. Let’s say, in our layman’s terms, that you make $35K per year. You want some people to help take the burden off of your shoulders (no pun intended) and make the team the best in the business. So you do what Bagwell did, you go to your boss and say let’s re-work my deal to get these players in here and I will take the rest of the monies owed to me at the end of my contract. So you take a base salary of $20K per year so you can earn a final year salary of say…..$100K.

Does that make some sense now? I would not place ALL of the blame on Jeff Bagwell, but instead on Uncle Drayton. He has MORE than enough to make this team one of the top 5 in the team salary dept. Bagwell deserves EVERY penny he has earned for what he has done for this team and this city. 449 HR, 1500+ RBI, .297 career avg. will definitely get him into the Hall. That’s right, I said it…..THE HALL OF FAME. The other criteria to factor is: Rookie of the Year in 1991, 1 MVP in 1994, 3 Silver Slugger Awards, 4 time All-Star, etc. The one critical factor is his CLASS! Find me one member of the media who doesn’t think Jeff Bagwell is a class act who isn’t worthy of the HOF….

Don’t feel sorry for Uncle Drayton having to pay Bags the money he’s earned by bringing up the value of the franchise and for making the clubhouse one that any one of us would feel welcome in. If you recall, when the entire city was begging for the ‘Stros to resign him and do whatever it took, well, now you see whatever it took. Drayton isn’t losing money in this deal, he actually has made many times over just by Bags putting the jersey on that says HOUSTON ASTROS, and making millions in merchandise from that player. Not only has Bags paid for his services by performing in the ultimate professional manner, he’s earned the right to go out as he wishes. The man has made the Astros as we know it to be now with Bidge, and it’s a lot better than before they came here.

Bags, it’s been a pleasure to watch you over the years play the game the way it was meant to be played, for that I thank you.

The Texans appear to be on the right track with their signings and to get a second receiver who can actually catch the balls that hit him in the hands would be a resounding successful offseason regardless of what happens in the draft. It seems as though Kubes is making the personnel decisions to fit his style, and hopefully we won’t have a 3 for 1 trade of picks for another Jason Babin who we could have gotten in the second round anyways. Either Moulds or Javon would be great pickups for the Texans.

I agree that a lot of the sacks that Carr has endured is partly due to his hesitancy to pass to receivers who seem to be open, but if you don’t trust the guy to catch the ball to go along with the thought of pressure coming hot on your heals and having to read the defense, then the man is not playing the way successful QB’s play. The lack of talent around him and the bad play calling, poor coaching has something to do with it as well. I’m still wondering how an offensive line coach who leads the league in sacks gets promoted to the offensive coordinator?

Bad decisions all around, and if Casserly messes up this draft with all of the picks that the Texans have in the first 3 rounds, he should be fired as soon as he trades 3 picks to move up for someone he could have gotten with the next pick anyways.

Re Bagwell everyone needs to take a deep breath. This is what courts and lawyers are for. The insurance company figures it’s going to pay something but knows the figure goes down the longer the sides argue through attorneys. It’ll find it’s depth and poor Drayton won’t go begging.

The bigger question is whether he’s going to spend the money now on another starter.

After all of that and Rob cannot spell Clemens; I bet you Drayton can. I feel for Bags. He’s meant a ton to the Astros and I hope will continue to be involved with the organization. For all of you who continue to bash Drayton do you remember the days of watching them play in that cavern of a dome under Dr. John McMullen?? What has Drayton done?? I guess nothing besides making the Astros playoff contenders year in and year out and that new kick butt stadium. Nah, you’re right, Drayton’s done nothing for us the fans. Maybe you’d like it better if he made the seats out of BBQ Ribs, so slender Astros fans can get some real value and eat those too.

I’ve noticed over the past several years that Astros fans are becoming dilettantes. The situation with Bagwell provided the final proof of it. He was signed to a contract through this year and the Astros organization should have always assumed they would have to fulfill their end of the contract. By going to Spring Training, Bagwell was just trying to see if he could actually earn his money and do what he promised to do – play through the end of his contract. His salary was not extra money, it was owed to him. Even if he quit last year, I doubt the insurance company would have sent a 15 million dollar check to McLane on January 31st, in time for McLane to do anything with it. The ignorance of the anti-Bagwell faction astounds me. Maybe it’s time for the Houston fans to either educate themselves about baseball or perhaps get fitted for a blue hat with a red “C” on it.

Rob, nobody shortchanged Bagwell and the Astros are not saving any money this year by him not playing. He was guaranteed his $17 million (which he deserves) whether he plays or not. He was also given the chance to see if he could play during spring training and he realized he could not–which has hurt the claim, but like everyone else said, they’ll settle in the middle somewhere years down the road.

I concur with a lot of your statements, but allow me to clearly state for the record who and what is at fault:

– You cover Drayton’s faults well. I staunchly agree.

– Bags is also at fault. Bags, love you to death brother, but the bottom line is your legacy was intact. Yet you insist on imposing your will on the team and now you HAVE to back off. You see folks, Bags knew how badly hurt he was and the REKNOWN Dr. Andrews even said so. Why do this to your team? You almost ruined your legacy by imposing your will on the team to let you attempt to play. What to help the team? BENCH coach and BUILD you a protege! You still get what you want: (1) Hanging out with Biggs, Brad, and the team in the clubhouse, (2) Channeling your energy through an emissary (read:protege), and (3) Contribute to the team, your fans, and baseball that you love.

Bags and McLane are both at fault and now the Astros has to suffer for their sins. Sins of Greed (McLane) and Pride (Bags).

to Rob and other anti-Drayton types. Hello!!! Bags was disabled from the standpoint of being an everyday NL 1st baseman. Yes he pinch hit in the playoffs and he was the DH in the Series, but that was out of generosity. The ‘Stros simply could have told him to stay home and keep trying to recover for the next season, but they didn’t and Jeff wouldn’t have listened anyways.

He couldn’t throw the ball back then and he couldn’t throw it coming into camp. Little Leaguers have better arms. The problem is that Jeff was in total denial and the Astros allowed him in camp in hopes that he would finally come to the realization of what I and many others knew, that roster vets don’t come to spring training not being able to throw the ball, they come not being able to throw it at top speed consistently for nine innings.

I wish Uncle Drayton the best in his legal claim. Just because someone denies being disabled doesn’t mean they aren’t. Those who live in the real world knew deep in their hearts it was over. I would rather have seen Jeff officially retire than make a sad comeback attempt. Unfortunately too many athletes can’t admit it, and we’re forced to watch them be brought down as has-beens instead of going out on top.

Quickly glancing at the above posts, the majority of what pops out is $$$, insurance policies, claims, prices, appeals, legal expenses, punitive damages, arbitration . . .THIS IS SPORTS? If I want to read about this junk, I will turn to the Financial Page. No thanks. I realize that salaries are important when it comes to putting food on the table and clothes on one’s back, but when you reach the double-digit millions, it should at least be second in the scheme of things – for both owners and athletes – behind more pristine ideals.

Now, let’s work Vince Young into this thing. He is pretty much powerless at this point. He will have to go with whoever drafts him. But, after listening to this guy time and time again, I am willing to bet that if he had the option, he would sacrifice at least a few bucks to stay here. Miami or Tennessee would be tolerable, but still not home. But, Holy Toledo, should he end up somewhere like Cleveland, New Orleans or Buffalo. Some of his motivation as a player would be lost. Sports is not Wall Street. It is a complex blend of talent, emotion and big bucks. Everyone seems to have forgotten that.

Rob…before addressing a situation like this in a public forum, it would be best for you and for all involved if you would get your facts straight. I don’t really know how to feel about the fact that you don’t know how to spell the greatest pitcher of this era’s name…its Clemens…but it immediately takes a lot of credibility away from your statements. Also, as has been discussed, Drayton hasn’t actually saved any money from Bagwell’s contract yet and will not save any money unless they come to some sort of settlement with the insurance company or win what will become a very lengthy and expensive battle in court (though it seems likely that they will at least settle). So its not as if he can assume that he will shortly have an extra 15.6 million to throw at whomever they’d like. I do agree with you about how terribly Uncle Drayton and the Astros’ brass handled their relationship with Bagwell this offseason and I just hope that it doesn’t scare some of our young guys or any future potential free agents that may be considering the Astros after seeing how the Franchise treats its greatest player ever. Bagwell is my favorite player and I wanted nothing more than for him to step in and hit 25-30 HR and 90+ RBI’s and show how much heart and hard work can overcome…its sad to see things end for him like this. Thanks for the memories and all that you’ve done for the organization and community Jeff.

I think most Houston fans fall about where I fall on the Bagwell issue.

Most fans understood when the Astros made him get a second doctors opinion and then filed the insurance claim on Bagwell calling him a “disabled player”. They bought the policy for this reason and he is a disabled player as we all can see. The Astros are not wrong for filing the claim. We get it.

Most fans understood when Bagwell didn’t want to just retire and go out on those terms. We understood that he wanted to at least try in spring training and see if he could play. He wanted to go out like the fighter that we all know he is. He told us that he was going to try and do it but that he wasn’t going to embarrass himself by being out there when he shouldn’t be. He wanted to go out like a man. We get that.

I think lots of us see both sides of this issue and just want the thing to play out and the two sides to realize it and patch things up and move on. In short we want them to “get it”.

My only problem is where we stand there doesn’t seem to fit. I think Bagwell looks bad here. i remember him saying that he would give it up if he couldn’t play. Now I see a guy who said that backpedaling to being on the DL and having more surgery. This is not what he said. If he is just having trouble giving it up then i guess i understand. If he is just trying to screw the Astros well then for the first time in this…I don’t get that.

I just had to comment on the comment from Rob. I don’t believe I have ever seen a more inaccurate post. The guy doesn’t have a clue about what’s going on with the Astros. Never has anyone made so many ignorant statements in one single post. If he is such a fan you would think he would at least know how to spell Roger’s name!!!!!

Yes the contract is guarunteed but we all have to know when to say when. The thing that Bagwell had to consider is would the team honestly be better with him or without him? I can’t imagine that having him would be worth $15 million. Yes, Drayton is cheap and yes he overcharges us for the games but the $15 million could have gone to getting another player. If someone said I could still get my paycheck and not have to work for them I’d want to know where I could sign on the dotted line (especially if the place would be worse off with me than without me). Now, like the previous post said, Bagwell is back pedaling on his promise to quit if he couldn’t do it. I love him and all he did for Houston but I wish he would have finished up at the end of last year. He got to play in the World Series and now he can wrap up a fulfilling career.

Ok, yes, Carroll Dawson has missed on some picks. And I know that no matter how much Mr. Alexander was involved in some of those decisions, someone else has to take the fall.

But really, hiring someone associated with the Celtics? What, was no one from a more successful organization, like maybe the Knicks or Trailblazers available? Other than Al Jefferson, what have they hit on recently? Mark Blount for six years? The yo-yo of Antoine Walker? Raef LaFrenz? I’ll give them credit for Al Jefferson and Delonte West has looked nice but still….the Celtics? What, is it 1982 or something?

This thing with Bagwell is far from finished. Infact, it’s not uncharacteristic for these things to drag out for years at a time. The initial denial is almost a certain reaction on claims of this size.

The thing that will be interesting to see is how the verbage of the policy is presented in court. Alot of the time words like substantial are used. The insurance company will say Jeff Bagwell is in the same shape he was during the playoffs last season and in the World Series. They’ll probably show footage of him getting that game winning hit that helped the Astros reach the playoffs.

The problem the insurance company is going to run into is with this being the NL, Bagwell will not be able to be a DH. Therefore will not substantially contribute to this club. It ought to be a fun process, and for those of you who think this process will somehow effect Draytons decision to bring back Clemens, you are mistaken. It isn’t a money thing with Roger Clemens. It is only a matter of whether or not he wants to come back and play again.

I just read the Bagwell conspiracy article, and I don’t find it funny at all. While I’m assuming it is a satire, this is serious stuff. To fake throw all those people under the bus? In the current atmosphere about steriods? With MLB lauching a retroactive investigation of at least one current MLB player?

To equate it to civil society, it would be like writing an article saying a guy raped a girl but oh really, he didn’t, I was just making fun. Would someone’s reputation ever recover from that?

Maybe I’m being too serious, but for a baseball player, once you retire, you can’t change your reputation. I’m sure Eddie Murray or Jim Rice could schmooze to their heart’s content with the press and not change how people feel about them.