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This is true but since we're specifically talking about the Dolphins, the fact that they lost to Cleveland by 1, Denver by 3, the Giants by 3, Dallas by 1, and NE by 3 (all but Den was on the road) shows that while they weren't a good team, they're really not as far down the ladder as you claim.

I've said it before....the defense blew each of those games. McCoy threw a late TD for the win, Tebow scored 50 TDs in the 4th qtr, Manning hit Cruz for a late GW-TD, Romo drove down the field for the GW field goal with no time on the clock, and Brady and Co. came back from an early deficit. If the defense had any balls last year the Dolphins finishing 8-8 or better isn't that far-fetched.

Since they failed in all of those games I agree that they weren't a good team.

The Dolphins only had 2 close wins last year (30-23 at Buffalo, 19-17 vs. Jets). The Jets on the other hand lost by 10, 17, 9, 21, 4, 26, 15, and 2. They also had wins of 3, 6, and 4. All this means is that it could have gone either way for both teams.

Bad teams lose close games, good teams win them.

The jets had chances to win every game in the 4th qtr w/ the exception of the Baltimore and Philly games.

Cle lost 6 games by a TD or less
Indy 5
Minny 9
SL 5

You get the idea. Most games are close, the good ones find ways to win and the bad ones find ways to lose.

Now the line is the dolphins weren't far from winning 9/10 games? Just like the Jets weren't far from winning 13/14 games in 2010.

That is usually the amount of games needed to compete for a playoff spot. The Dolphins have not been far off that amount.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

Of course Marshall isn't a huge loss but if he was here you'd be telling me how his greatness would help you into playoff contention.

I guess that would kind of be like you telling me how big of a loss he is now that he is gone, but telling me how many passes he drops and how many total TDs he had in 2010 (3) and 2011 (6) when he was here.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

He made the PB after the '09 season throwing 15 TDs, sanchez has 26 last year and Garrad was an injury replacement. he didn't earn a PB spot.

Garrard had 23 Tds in 2010, not 15. He also had a 64.5 completion percentage compared to Mark's career high of 56.7.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

Moore played well after the season was over just like he did in carolina in 2009.

We have already had this discussion. There were a ton of other reasons for Moore not playing well other than pressure.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

As I said every team can hope for a playoff app, teams get good and bad quickly in this league but realistically I wouldn't expect them to make it. Hopefully for you guys and Philbin they are competitive and at least in the race or else a new regime could be coming next year.

Who said the Dolphins are a lock for the playoffs? All that has been said is that they have not been far from winning 9 / 10 games and are not as far as you claim they are from competing for a playoff spot. I already said I didn't think it is realistic to expect that in Philbin's first season, but who knows?

Originally Posted by nyjunc

Bad teams lose close games, good teams win them.

The jets had chances to win every game in the 4th qtr w/ the exception of the Baltimore and Philly games.

Cle lost 6 games by a TD or less
Indy 5
Minny 9
SL 5

You get the idea. Most games are close, the good ones find ways to win and the bad ones find ways to lose.

Who said otherwise?

A TD or less is a little different than 3 points or less. Minn lost 2 games by 3 points or less. Cle lost 3 games by 3 or less. Indy lost 2 games by 3 points or less. SL lost only 1 game by 3 points or less. That is a little different than losing 5 games by 3 points or less with 2 of them being 2 points or less. It is also a little different when most of those teams won a total of 2 or 3 games. 6 wins with 5 losses of 3 points or less is not good, but it is something to build on.

That is usually the amount of games needed to compete for a playoff spot. The Dolphins have not been far off that amount.

I guess that would kind of be like you telling me how big of a loss he is now that he is gone, but telling me how many passes he drops and how many total TDs he had in 2010 (3) and 2011 (6) when he was here.

Garrard had 23 Tds in 2010, not 15. He also had a 64.5 completion percentage compared to Mark's career high of 56.7.

We have already had this discussion. There were a ton of other reasons for Moore not playing well other than pressure.

Who said the Dolphins are a lock for the playoffs? All that has been said is that they have not been far from winning 9 / 10 games and are not as far as you claim they are from competing for a playoff spot. I already said I didn't think it is realistic to expect that in Philbin's first season, but who knows?

Who said otherwise?

A TD or less is a little different than 3 points or less. Minn lost 2 games by 3 points or less. Cle lost 3 games by 3 or less. Indy lost 2 games by 3 points or less. SL lost only 1 game by 3 points or less. That is a little different than losing 5 games by 3 points or less with 2 of them being 2 points or less. It is also a little different when most of those teams won a total of 2 or 3 games. 6 wins with 5 losses of 3 points or less is not good, but it is something to build on.

They were far enough away that they weren't in the playoff race in 2010 or 2011 and would have needed the miracle of all miracles to make it in 2009.

I think Marshall is a top 3 talent but for whatever reason it doesn't translate to the field, he's a great possession guy but not as good as his #s indictae, w/ all that said he's still a big weapon for an offense and you barely have a legit #2 WR let alone a #1.

He made the PB in 2009 not 2010.

Cool, mark is 4-2 in the playoffs not 1-1. I'll take TDs and wins over comp %

It's just a coincidence that he was "great" for Carolina in '09 when they were out of the race then stunk as opening day starter a year later then in Miami stunk when Miami still had a chance and was "great" when the season was lost. Pure coincidence.

all close losses and signs of a bad team. They earned every one of those losses.

They were far enough away that they weren't in the playoff race in 2010 or 2011 and would have needed the miracle of all miracles to make it in 2009.

I think Marshall is a top 3 talent but for whatever reason it doesn't translate to the field, he's a great possession guy but not as good as his #s indictae, w/ all that said he's still a big weapon for an offense and you barely have a legit #2 WR let alone a #1.

He made the PB in 2009 not 2010.

Cool, mark is 4-2 in the playoffs not 1-1. I'll take TDs and wins over comp %

It's just a coincidence that he was "great" for Carolina in '09 when they were out of the race then stunk as opening day starter a year later then in Miami stunk when Miami still had a chance and was "great" when the season was lost. Pure coincidence.

all close losses and signs of a bad team. They earned every one of those losses.

It doesn't matter to me what other teams do that the Dolphins have no control over. Very rarely is 10 wins not good enough to get you in. They have been close. I find your argument a little funny since the Jets have had a hard time winning 9 games 2 out of the last 3 seasons and have only won more than 10 games during the regular season just 4 times in franchise history.

He's a possession guy and not as good as his #'s indicate, but he was a huge loss for the Dolphins. He had a total of 9 TDs in his 2 seasons here. He was 1 off the field incident away from suspension and bad for team chemistry. I'm glad he is gone and feel confident that the other receivers can step up.

Garrard's Wikipedia page got me confused. It said:

Garrard concluded the 2010 season throwing for 23 touchdowns, 2,734 yards and a quarterback rating of 91, earning a spot in the 2010 Pro Bowl.

I would much rather judge a QB from his stats than his win loss record. Mark has been carried by a strong running game and D. I can give you more examples of games he was the main reason the Jets lost than games he was the main reason they won. Touchdowns? Mark has a 55 to 51 career TD to Int ratio. Garrard has an 89 to 54 ratio.

No, it is not a coincidence. There a a ton of reasons for Moore's struggles with the 09 Panthers and the 2011 Dolphins other than pressure. We've been over them many times.

It doesn't matter to me what other teams do that the Dolphins have no control over. Very rarely is 10 wins not good enough to get you in. They have been close. I find your argument a little funny since the Jets have had a hard time winning 9 games 2 out of the last 3 seasons and have only won more than 10 games during the regular season just 4 times in franchise history.

He's a possession guy and not as good as his #'s indicate, but he was a huge loss for the Dolphins. He had a total of 9 TDs in his 2 seasons here. He was 1 off the field incident away from suspension and bad for team chemistry. I'm glad he is gone and feel confident that the other receivers can step up.

Garrard's Wikipedia page got me confused. It said:

I would much rather judge a QB from his stats than his win loss record. Mark has been carried by a strong running game and D. I can give you more examples of games he was the main reason the Jets lost than games he was the main reason they won. Touchdowns? Mark has a 55 to 51 career TD to Int ratio. Garrard has an 89 to 54 ratio.

No, it is not a coincidence. There a a ton of reasons for Moore's struggles with the 09 Panthers and the 2011 Dolphins other than pressure. We've been over them many times.

I don't care about the 70s and 80s, you can use your almost talk about the playoffs, my team has been in more often than not recently.

Mark was thrown into the fire as a rookie while Garrad didn't start a majority of games until his 5th season, huge difference. Sanchez's TD to INT ratio is skewed by his rookie year where he threw 12 Tds and 20 INTs. Garrad's best year he was +8 TDs to INTs, sanchez was +8 last year. Sanchez is better though if healthy Garrard is a quality option.

The reasons start and end w/ pressure to win games- when he has none he wins, when he has it he loses.

I don't care about the 70s and 80s, you can use your almost talk about the playoffs, my team has been in more often than not recently.

Mark was thrown into the fire as a rookie while Garrad didn't start a majority of games until his 5th season, huge difference. Sanchez's TD to INT ratio is skewed by his rookie year where he threw 12 Tds and 20 INTs. Garrad's best year he was +8 TDs to INTs, sanchez was +8 last year. Sanchez is better though if healthy Garrard is a quality option.

The reasons start and end w/ pressure to win games- when he has none he wins, when he has it he loses.

Your team has been in more often than not recently because they barely made it in 2009. The Jets have struggled to win 9 games, 2 out of the last 3 seasons.