05 June, 2006

The Velo Orange bag will not have the horizontal strip with four rivets. The closing strap will continue over the top of the bag. And the Velo Orange logo will also act as a blinkey mount (though this feature may not be ready on the first shipment).

The material is heavy cotton canvas with leather trim. The price will be $65. We should have the first shipment next week so you can pre-order.

Please let me know what you think.

The photo is of a small bag made by Manufrance. This may be the ancestor of all small saddle bags.

We're also considering developing a seat bag. We're aiming for a price point of around $120-$130 What do you think features do you think the Velo Orange seat bag should have? We don't want just another copy of a Carrdice or Ostrich bag, but an improved version.

18 comments:

Kris Green
said...

The saddle bag looks strikingly like my Carradice, which is no bad place to start. I hope your handlebar bag will look more like a Berthoud "semi-rigid" bag, rather than a Baggins-esque "floppy" design.

There was a discussion on the Rivendell forum about the Frost River bags and their relation to the baggins bags. If you search for "Frost River" in the bikelist archives you can find Grant's discussion of the relation.

http://search.bikelist.org/

I have a few Baggins bags and a few Berthoud bags. I like each quite a bit. The price point for the Velo Orange version ($65) is below Frost River ($75) which itself is below Rivendell ($88). I don't know if they are directly comparable. My gut feeling is that I would rather see an alternate design instead of a less expensive version of an existing design.

That looks like an illustration from the "Frost River" website for a bag that uses Grant Peterson's design for the Rivendell "Banana Bag", which is a great little bag. My impression is there's some ethical shadow over the whole Rivendell/Frost River business, so modification of the design is definitely in order. I hope the shadow is lifted, because I think they're great bags. I think the Rivendell Bag is a modification of an earlier design, too, of course.

I've gotten a few e-mails about some sort of pissing match between Riv and Frost River, who will make our bags, about who designed the bags. I don't know anything about that, and frankly, don't care. These bags are copies of old French and English bags. No one still alive "invented" them.

One thing that maybe you can address. On my Baggins Banana bag, the buckle for the strap that goes around the seatpost rests right on top of my Rivendell's seatlug tip (the part that points upward). Perhaps you could have a pad under your buckle (think back to Campag's old toeclip straps) that protects the bike and the post.

Also, to add some variety to these bags maybe you could offer a slightly smaller size than the Banana bag.

Hey Chris, looks like you poked a stick into a wasps nest over on the RBW forum. Don't you know that you're messin with their religion? :)

As for feedback, I have a Baggins Adam bag which looks pretty much the same as your illustration. If I were to change anything it would be to make it more waterproof by 1) changing the fabric to something similar to the Carradice fabric and 2) changing the design of the flaps so that the outer flap completely covers the load area.

Another small niggle is the strap arrangement. I realise the loose straps on the outer flap provide more loading flexibility, but in practice that feature isn't needed and can lead to a lost strap. I would prefer the closure straps sewn on the lid with a buckle on the lower part.

I have one of the Baggin's Bannana bags and one possible improvement is the buckle that mounts the bag to the seat post. I think it would be better if the buckle tightened from inside the bag so that only the leather strap was around the seatpost. This would prevent buckle abrasion on the painted bits and provide a more snug and tidy installation.

With all this controversy surrounding the large saddle bag, I've decided to start from a "clean sheet of paper" with a new design. I removed the old illustration and will post a drawing of my design when it's finished.

John P. and Mark make a good point about the buckle on the small bag. We have to do something about that.

Probably not a popular option with this crowd, but the best way to secure a bag around a seatpost is still going to be velcro. Infinitely adjustable, secure, and simple. I've found metal/leather buckles don't work nearly as well. Durability is a non-issue since this strap isn't really supporting a lot of weight and velcro has been used in applications that see far more use/abuse than a seatpost bag strap!

I'm sure everyone is putting in their 2 cents on what your bag should be, with no 2 cents the same. For the record then, I would be interested in a Banana Bag size and general shape, but in something more like the fabrics used in undersaddle wedges. I use a large-ish, expanding underseat wedge with the plastic stiffeners removed. It's just not quite large enough. I think most of the large undersaddle wedges on the market look like basking sharks strapped under your seat - the shape is too "tubular". Also, velcro fasteners are fine with me.

How about a simpler built-in quick release and shoulder strap for the bag? A simple snap-clip or hook, rather than the Carradice SQR system that requires a mounting block. Something to make it as easy to use as a pannier for those who prefer the saddlebag format.

It would also be handy to have a way to access a saddlebag pocket while riding. A top or front opening pocket, rather than the sideways, buckled outer pockets like the Carradices. Something just large enough for a cell phone or a snack, separate from the larger compartment. Easy to open and close while riding, maybe velcro or elastic top with a flap.

As for the derivative design problem, if you have something useful to offer in a new bag design, it'll inherently be different from everything else out there. It sounds to me like you were just getting a heads-up on a potentially shady vendor, that's all. I doubt if your response and attitude about it are gaining any new customers.

Anyway, good luck, keep the good ideas coming, looking forward to your new designs.

First off, glad to see someone else stepping up to create some new bag options! I agree with the earlier poster who suggested that you make a smaller size bag- I've got a banana bag right now, and frankly, the thing is really about half-again larger than it needs to be- I don't carry sandwiches, and I'm not about to stuff an expensive rain jacket in with my greasy tools.

I perused those links and saw GP's whiney response to that guy who made bags. The long and short is, it's a free country. Unless the guy specifically agreed to be bound to not compete with the Riv guys or something, go for it. It's the American Way. It's like saying to V-O, 'hey Chris, you have those *round* hoop-like things with *rubber* on them attached to your bikes; as you can easily see we already do it that way .... copycat.'

I say Velo-Orange has much flava and it is more than free to make these bags, or carbon fiber touring frames, or randonneur on-bike urination devices, or whatever the heck strikes CK's fancy, unless someone can show that they've got a patent on the design. Like those cool logos that said "Brev. Campagnolo" or something ... then of course one would back off.

Those Riv guys have always seemed to me like wankers anyway. The same kind of drivel that so annoys me about those J. Peterman catalogs you get in the mail every so often. It's something that seems so odd to me about the cycling community: so many of these guys seem to be manufacturing industrial diamonds in their a$$holes. roflmfao.