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Eriksen definetly, but there is alot of young belgians prospect in real life. I think Belgium will be world number one someday

mmm, belgium has no team. believe me, im a belgian footy guide....
as long as they dont have a right and left side defender, they ll never be nr 1. a lot of talented players, individual BEASTS!! but not a team...

Look at Rooney's attributes. He has the stats of one of the best players in the world. Look at his performances over his career, not just last year. You see a lot of good seasons but only one great season, last year. If anything, the knee jerk reaction was making him that good after a season that will never reproduce. He has only scored more than 14 goals twice(05-06 & last year) and last year was the only time he had scored more than a goal every other game. In comparison, Torres has done it every full year he's been in the PL. I'm not saying that Rooney needs to be made into a bum but he should not be one of the best strikers in the world. Rate him based on his career as a whole which is still a very very good player but not world class.

Only one year has torres done significantly better in the goals tally. Rooney doesn't play as a conventional striker a lot of the time unlike torres who is depended on for goals.

People forget that PA should be the absolute limit of how good a player should be. PA should not change after a player has reached a certain age but it doesn't always mean that their CA will reach it.

As for the argument that players can't be world class because they dont do anything internationally, that is a joke. There are any number of great or even world class players who have never done anything internationally because of either the country they play for or the way they are played in that team. Messi didnt do much at the world cup, lets lower his stats. phhh

The big thing about Rooney is he has only played one season as the main goal geter at Man U, and he did very very well, the rest of the time he has played as a support striker, so infact for the role he plays his goal ratio is very very good. Also again ratings are based on last season, last season Rooney was unstoppable until he got injured and he was their main goal threat, hence why he is good at it in the game, play as your lead man and like he did last season he will get a lot of goals, play him as a support striker, like he has for every other season at united and he will do that job very well.

but based on the precedent that was the Elano rating on FM08? (just after he joined city) then this is a totally valid argument (he was in a purple patch and was given god-like ratings for patch x.1 and then subsequently decreased in patch x.3)

as for Rooney, he ALWAYS has been overrated on FM (although this just might be a strikers issue in general) in that Rooney always scores over 25 per league season (even when he first moved to Man Utd and scored <15 goals in the previous season)
this issue just might be for strikers in general, but i think it's emphasised by the fact that Rooney scores >20 per season, when he never gets anywhere near that IRL (bar last season), he has since regressed (FM speak) into about a 15-20 goal per season striker (and is worthy of a decrease) but then i've been of the belief that ALL english researchers overrated the players anyways (compare Darren Bent [who has scored 10 goals this season] to Edinson Cavani)

@kkas - Messi was arguably argentina's best player at the world cup (and even got nominated for the golden ball)... which measn that he had a good world cup, rather than 'flopped' on the international stage

but based on the precedent that was the Elano rating on FM08? (just after he joined city) then this is a totally valid argument (he was in a purple patch and was given god-like ratings for patch x.1 and then subsequently decreased in patch x.3)

as for Rooney, he ALWAYS has been overrated on FM (although this just might be a strikers issue in general) in that Rooney always scores over 25 per league season (even when he first moved to Man Utd and scored <15 goals in the previous season)
this issue just might be for strikers in general, but i think it's emphasised by the fact that Rooney scores >20 per season, when he never gets anywhere near that IRL (bar last season), he has since regressed (FM speak) into about a 15-20 goal per season striker (and is worthy of a decrease) but then i've been of the belief that ALL english researchers overrated the players anyways (compare Darren Bent [who has scored 10 goals this season] to Edinson Cavani)

@kkas - Messi was arguably argentina's best player at the world cup (and even got nominated for the golden ball)... which measn that he had a good world cup, rather than 'flopped' on the international stage

i agree with pretty much all of this post. You're abit harsh on Rooney saying he never gets near more than 20 goals a season but i see what you are saying.

As for Messi i'm not sure why there is an opinion that he flopped at the world cup. He was playing a different role and position to what he plays for Barca and he was unlucky not to get a few goals but all in all i thought he pulled most of the strings for Argentina and seemed to transition from amazing goalscorer to a world class playmaker which proved even more what a class act he is.

wilshere needs some attributes changing, his pa is fine. ramsey can be lowered as his is a bit ott anyway imo

as an arsenal fan i watch 99% of our games so i think it's fair to say

djourou needs a higher pa and some stats improved
wilshere needs to be a natural cm not amc and have improved tackling, strength and atnticipation
arshavin should be slightly downgraded on this seasons performances (recent turnaround?) especially passing and work rate
nasri could have his pace improved a little and some stats tweaked...
theo needs to have better technical stats which are lower than agbonlahors (LOL)
ryo needs to be created and added on loan to feyanord
fabianski and sneezy need to be upgraded also

Ibrahimovic: Mostly mentals. He has become an amazing team player and leader this year. Very good work rate and all that now.
Cassano: Mostly passing. Literally amazing at assists now.
Robinho: Mostly mentals. Also works very hard and is more determined and works for the team. If they had a stat for shooting power it should be moved down to 0 though.
Merkel: he has been a revelation really. Really looks a top top player in the making.

Downgrade:

I'd definitely downgrade people like Rooney and Torres further. Ideally they'd be some sort of stat for long term form. I'm sure what length of time consistency relates to or whether it is just done on a game per game basis. But people like Torres and Rooney should have a 0 for a stat that determines how well they can maintain form in the long term. Someone like David Villa would have 20 because he always plays good.

But going on the current system, Torres and Rooney are both just not all that great. High flair maybe, but you know, its just not acceptable at all to be as poor as Rooney was at the World Cup for example.

he has only scored more than 20 league goals on 1 occasion throughout his career, whereas on FM he seems to score 20-25 goals per season (this has been going since at least FM08)

Consider though that the AI uses Rooney in a far different way than Fergie (last year aside)... He plays as a striker on both but as someone said above he very often plays as a focal striker on the game whereas he generally plays a support role irl. Last year he was focal with berbatov support and roles reversed this year. Also a lot of the media, and consequently the fans have taken their rose tints off and every bad pass he does now is over-analyzed. As someone asked above, exactly which of his stats are overrated? All of them is a bit poor of an answer.

I was going to say tevez scores far too much in game too (far more annoying than rooney!) till I saw his scoring record for city too, the guy has something like 50 goals in 80 games, awesome!

Consider though that the AI uses Rooney in a far different way than Fergie (last year aside)... He plays as a striker on both but as someone said above he very often plays as a focal striker on the game whereas he generally plays a support role irl. Last year he was focal with berbatov support and roles reversed this year. Also a lot of the media, and consequently the fans have taken their rose tints off and every bad pass he does now is over-analyzed. As someone asked above, exactly which of his stats are overrated? All of them is a bit poor of an answer.

I was going to say tevez scores far too much in game too (far more annoying than rooney!) till I saw his scoring record for city too, the guy has something like 50 goals in 80 games, awesome!

its not a matter of stats its the fact that rooney scores 30 league goals a season on fm.

its not a matter of stats its the fact that rooney scores 30 league goals a season on fm.

Thats because in the game he is played as the main striker, and like last season when he played that role in real life shows, he will score a lot of goals. In the real world he is played as a support striker not the main goal getting striker, play him in a support role in the game and he will not score as much as he does, but the AI play him as the main focal point of their attack hence he scores a shed load of goals.

Thats because in the game he is played as the main striker, and like last season when he played that role in real life shows, he will score a lot of goals. In the real world he is played as a support striker not the main goal getting striker, play him in a support role in the game and he will not score as much as he does, but the AI play him as the main focal point of their attack hence he scores a shed load of goals.

he doesnt score over 30 a season in the game either, i can provide screen shots from 5 different saves which shows that, he does score over 20 each season, which you would expect from a main striker. Anyway, FM is in the future, not the past, who's to say if he goes onto be a main striker he wont score over 30 a season he is good enough to do that, and last season he probably would have scored more if not for the injury against Bayern which ended his season and world cup before it got going.

he doesnt score over 30 a season in the game either, i can provide screen shots from 5 different saves which shows that, he does score over 20 each season, which you would expect from a main striker. Anyway, FM is in the future, not the past, who's to say if he goes onto be a main striker he wont score over 30 a season he is good enough to do that, and last season he probably would have scored more if not for the injury against Bayern which ended his season and world cup before it got going.

this argument has grown from previous versions of fm as well but i've seen rooney score more than 30 league goals in a season as well as tevez, besides your argument that fm is set in the future is totally pointless. Its true that rooney may go on to be that good but how is that a basis for a rating in fm? Players need to be rated on how they perform season by season so to defend rooney as though he may go on to be that good is total rubbish.

this argument has grown from previous versions of fm as well but i've seen rooney score more than 30 league goals in a season as well as tevez, besides your argument that fm is set in the future is totally pointless. Its true that rooney may go on to be that good but how is that a basis for a rating in fm? Players need to be rated on how they perform season by season so to defend rooney as though he may go on to be that good is total rubbish.

so are you saying he should never have the ability to score 30 league goals in a season because he has never done it so far?

Coming from a dane i would think Christian Eriksen (Ajax) and Frederik Sørensen (Juventus) are among players that can be good in Europe...Its hard to say if they can reach the world class level, both of them are still young. But they are talented no doubt about that imo.

La Masia is the best breeding ground for talent anywhere in world football but Barca's youngsters are ridiculously under-rated. Romeu, Gerard and Rafa Alcantara are -8's! Seriously! They can only ever have the same potential as Ivan Klasnic! And of course Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal's young players have better potential than Barca's

Look at Rooney's attributes. He has the stats of one of the best players in the world. Look at his performances over his career, not just last year. You see a lot of good seasons but only one great season, last year. If anything, the knee jerk reaction was making him that good after a season that will never reproduce. He has only scored more than 14 goals twice(05-06 & last year) and last year was the only time he had scored more than a goal every other game. In comparison, Torres has done it every full year he's been in the PL. I'm not saying that Rooney needs to be made into a bum but he should not be one of the best strikers in the world. Rate him based on his career as a whole which is still a very very good player but not world class.

I totally agree with you - can't believe he is rated as world class, he hasn't even scored a world cup goal and he's played in 2 WC competitions. I always wonder if he would get as much attention if he were welsh or scottish, personally i don't think he would

I no longer care about anyone but Gomes, somebody for the love of god downgrade him...!

Just been knocked out of the champions league by tottenham 1-0 over two legs with that.......... Whatever you want to call him, getting 9+ in both games! Grrrrr! I think ability wise he's a little underrated irl but he is easily the best goalkeeper I play against in game! Posted about him recently in the 'bogey players' thread too, seems I tempted fate!

Last edited by sneakysmeagle22; 14-02-2011 at 15:23.
Reason: Correcting the stoopid iPad autocorrect!

so are you saying he should never have the ability to score 30 league goals in a season because he has never done it so far?

no but he shouldn't be able to do it consistently. I don't want to make this about Rooney though because there are a number of strikers that score too many goals at club and particularly at international level. Goal records are constantly broken at international level by players you wouldn't expect to get there.

no but he shouldn't be able to do it consistently. I don't want to make this about Rooney though because there are a number of strikers that score too many goals at club and particularly at international level. Goal records are constantly broken at international level by players you wouldn't expect to get there.

Your maybe right but fm cant predict the future it needs to be balanced some how

no but he shouldn't be able to do it consistently. I don't want to make this about Rooney though because there are a number of strikers that score too many goals at club and particularly at international level. Goal records are constantly broken at international level by players you wouldn't expect to get there.

its impossible to say that, if Rooney had consistantly been played as a main goal getting striker for a few seasons and not had a season like last i would agree but all we have to go on is the one season he was the main man, and in that season he was amazing at that job, hence his stats reflect this.

thought i would add this here if thats ok since i will be wanting to get him if its true
will henrick larsson be a player in the new patch because in his wikipedia page it says he is now PLAYER-manager for landskrona bois ?

thought i would add this here if thats ok since i will be wanting to get him if its true
will henrick larsson be a player in the new patch because in his wikipedia page it says he is now PLAYER-manager for landskrona bois ?

Can you get Player - Managers in FM? Never seen one. Why would you want to sign him anyway, Might aswell sign Doyle.

its impossible to say that, if Rooney had consistantly been played as a main goal getting striker for a few seasons and not had a season like last i would agree but all we have to go on is the one season he was the main man, and in that season he was amazing at that job, hence his stats reflect this.

and he still didnt get 30 goals. This isn't a problem for fm 11 as his rating is finally justified but even before fm 11 he was one of the best goalscorers in the game before he proved it irl. This isn't going anywhere tbh i'm not even arguing that he needs a downgrade i just think there are a number of strikers that score more than they do irl and maybe its a match engine issue i don't know and tbh i don't care anymore.

Rather than upgrading or downgrading people on a few months of form, how about just upgrading those players that have proven they can reach levels IRL that simply cannot be achieved in the game because there levels are so low?

Martin Kelly for example had a stormer at right back against Lyon last season, which had every LFC fan saying that he should be upgraded. But since he got injured in the same game and couldnt play anymore, there wasnt enough evidence to support an upgrade for FM11. This season however, he has played quite a few games and consistently shown attributes well in excess of what is in the database - he has made storming runs, excellent crosses, shown pace and skill, yet his current and potential stats in the game mean there is no chance of him doing that in the game. That's a flaw IMO, and he should be changed.

Rooney and Torres meanwhile, while their form has been off for ages, have at least shown they can be brilliant. You would still want them to be able to reach those levels in the game, at least in theory.

Maybe a little downgrade to consistency is all thats required, rather than a wholesale attribute slashing?

Rooney and Torres meanwhile, while their form has been off for ages, have at least shown they can be brilliant. You would still want them to be able to reach those levels in the game, at least in theory.

Maybe a little downgrade to consistency is all thats required, rather than a wholesale attribute slashing?

I point you to the rating of Elano for Man City in 8.2, he'd had a stormer up till that point and was rated highly, before coming back down to earth in 8.3
these things DO happen, like with Dzeko last year 10.3 (deserved imo) and you want them to be abolished

based on your logic, why does Roberto Carlos not still have the CA of 180+, he CAN still play very well, just doesn't due to his age... your point and theory is rubbish

mmm, belgium has no team. believe me, im a belgian footy guide....
as long as they dont have a right and left side defender, they ll never be nr 1. a lot of talented players, individual BEASTS!! but not a team...

Rather than upgrading or downgrading people on a few months of form, how about just upgrading those players that have proven they can reach levels IRL that simply cannot be achieved in the game because there levels are so low?

Martin Kelly for example had a stormer at right back against Lyon last season, which had every LFC fan saying that he should be upgraded. But since he got injured in the same game and couldnt play anymore, there wasnt enough evidence to support an upgrade for FM11. This season however, he has played quite a few games and consistently shown attributes well in excess of what is in the database - he has made storming runs, excellent crosses, shown pace and skill, yet his current and potential stats in the game mean there is no chance of him doing that in the game. That's a flaw IMO, and he should be changed.

Your comments don't make sense - you correctly say he wasn't upgraded for FM2011 as he barely played last year and then say it is a flaw that his CA and PA aren't reflecting his current form?

You have no idea what stats he will have in the new update!

Rooney and Torres meanwhile, while their form has been off for ages, have at least shown they can be brilliant. You would still want them to be able to reach those levels in the game, at least in theory.

Maybe a little downgrade to consistency is all thats required, rather than a wholesale attribute slashing?

So? He has played for Barnsley before but he isn't in the database for legal reasons.

The boy is still at school. Let him take some GCSE's before he is subjected to a video game.

Lol, I understand what your saying, but he was interviewed a little while back on a BBC Sport piece on up coming sports stars, and he said how he edits himself in to FM games. Poor boy wants to be subjected!

Originally Posted by Robsabbaggio
Rather than upgrading or downgrading people on a few months of form, how about just upgrading those players that have proven they can reach levels IRL that simply cannot be achieved in the game because there levels are so low?

Martin Kelly for example had a stormer at right back against Lyon last season, which had every LFC fan saying that he should be upgraded. But since he got injured in the same game and couldnt play anymore, there wasnt enough evidence to support an upgrade for FM11. This season however, he has played quite a few games and consistently shown attributes well in excess of what is in the database - he has made storming runs, excellent crosses, shown pace and skill, yet his current and potential stats in the game mean there is no chance of him doing that in the game. That's a flaw IMO, and he should be changed.

Your comments don't make sense - you correctly say he wasn't upgraded for FM2011 as he barely played last year and then say it is a flaw that his CA and PA aren't reflecting his current form?

You have no idea what stats he will have in the new update!

Rooney and Torres meanwhile, while their form has been off for ages, have at least shown they can be brilliant. You would still want them to be able to reach those levels in the game, at least in theory.

Maybe a little downgrade to consistency is all thats required, rather than a wholesale attribute slashing?
10 characters......

Just to respond Paul, I shouldnt have used the word flaw. What I meant was that Kelly's attributes were about right at the time the original database for FM11 was set up, but are now out of date and can be changed with the FM11 update. No criticism was implied.

I point you to the rating of Elano for Man City in 8.2, he'd had a stormer up till that point and was rated highly, before coming back down to earth in 8.3
these things DO happen, like with Dzeko last year 10.3 (deserved imo) and you want them to be abolished

based on your logic, why does Roberto Carlos not still have the CA of 180+, he CAN still play very well, just doesn't due to his age... your point and theory is rubbish

Thanks for your mild-mannered and friendly response!

You took my point too far, I wasnt suggesting a blanket rule, just that where specific players have achieved high levels of performance over reasonably long period and it is still unclear that they will never yet recapture them, they shouldnt have their stats slashed completely. Torres, even in his last two injury plagued seasons, has still scored nearly one ever other game, so it would be stupid to completely obliterate him. If the poor form continues, then it will be up to the researchers to re-evaluate.

Elano was very over-rated based on form shown for a very short of time. And Roberto Carlos was a great player but is ageing, thats the only reason his stats are reduced, so your comparison is void.

I would say Holden is pretty underrated though I think his stats look a lot worse because of his either-footedness.

And Rooney deserves a pretty significant decrease. I think it's pretty obvious last year was an outlier and while he's a very good player, I wouldn't say he's world class.

A few Dortmund players deserve attribute increases. Sahin has been one of the best midfielders in the world this season and while he's pretty good, he definitely deserves increases in some attributes. Götze needs better physicals and technical attributes. He's been much better than Wilshere but German players always get underrated. I would also say Sven Bender deserves a boost in CA.

this man speaks the truth, lots of german players are underrated in this game.just look at thomas müller, the guy plays a whole season as a starter for munich and then a great world cup but he has a friggin lower ca/pa than gareth bale, englands favourite hype...

my problem was that bale's ca/pa is higher than müllers, in my opinion thats a little awkward.initially i was responding to this post:

Originally Posted by dustygator

I would say Holden is pretty underrated though I think his stats look a lot worse because of his either-footedness.

And Rooney deserves a pretty significant decrease. I think it's pretty obvious last year was an outlier and while he's a very good player, I wouldn't say he's world class.

A few Dortmund players deserve attribute increases. Sahin has been one of the best midfielders in the world this season and while he's pretty good, he definitely deserves increases in some attributes. Götze needs better physicals and technical attributes. He's been much better than Wilshere but German players always get underrated. I would also say Sven Bender deserves a boost in CA.

in general there are quite a few german talents who are underrated in the game and although müllers stats are fine giving him a lower ca/pa as bale is hilarious considering his performance in the last 18 months.

have you not seen bale single handedly destroy last years champs cup winners?? im not syaing muller is poor at all btw but Bale has been one of the top players this year, unplayable at times so i would say its hilarious at all.

I don't think bale should be lowered at all IMO, in fact I think his PA should be raised, but I also agree with the comments about muller, he was one of the first players I went looking for on 11 and was really disappointed, think schweinsteiger is a little underrated too if I'm honest, but this may be a carry over from years previoous when he did disappoint for a while.

On a separate note, I've watched a lot of PSV over the past few seasons and really think afellay is one to watch who is also a bit low on the game. It's difficult to judge players in the eredivisie though so understand not wanting to overhype him, though I think he looked really good in the WC when he came on for the Netherlands too. Suppose the Barcelona researcher can change him now if he ever gets a game there (disappointed he didn't go somewhere he'd play more regularly!).

I also agree with the comments about muller, he was one of the first players I went looking for on 11 and was really disappointed, think schweinsteiger is a little underrated too if I'm honest, but this may be a carry over from years previoous when he did disappoint for a while.

The bayern researchers himself has said that the stats for 11.1 were different to what he posted (and that they were changed by the German researcher based on the WC)... and they were infact rated higher

Downgrade Falcao after the season hes having?!?! One thinks there may be some slight Benfica bias in this post! Lucas should get an upgrade in my books, been Liverpool's best player so far this season.

wilshere needs some attributes changing, his pa is fine. ramsey can be lowered as his is a bit ott anyway imo

as an arsenal fan i watch 99% of our games so i think it's fair to say

djourou needs a higher pa and some stats improved
wilshere needs to be a natural cm not amc and have improved tackling, strength and atnticipation
arshavin should be slightly downgraded on this seasons performances (recent turnaround?) especially passing and work rate
nasri could have his pace improved a little and some stats tweaked...
theo needs to have better technical stats which are lower than agbonlahors (LOL)
ryo needs to be created and added on loan to feyanord
fabianski and sneezy need to be upgraded also

lookinbg forward to the patch but i don't know if stats are changed?

Arsenal have been overrated in every FM so far There has always been an odd Arsenal love all over the premiership (excluding Utd/chelsea/Spurs/Hammers fans) with a huge over-estimation of players such as RvP, Vela and Nasri, alongside the damage done to young players (ala Walcott (who was showing promise then got snapped up) and is now happening to Wilshere (seems to play very much like an arsenal player 'diving etc' alot) and if not for injury, then Ramsey also) however Wilshere and Walcott have shown promise (Wilshere especially, but he is becoming a natural arsenal player and he's now losing that talent to poor sportsmanship).

Arsenal have been overrated in every FM so far There has always been an odd Arsenal love all over the premiership (excluding Utd/chelsea/Spurs/Hammers fans) with a huge over-estimation of players such as RvP, Vela and Nasri, alongside the damage done to young players (ala Walcott (who was showing promise then got snapped up) and is now happening to Wilshire (seems to play very much like an arsenal player 'diving etc' alot) and if not for injury, then Ramsey also) however Wilshire and Walcott have shown promise (Wilshere especially, but he is becoming a natural arsenal player and he's now losing that talent to poor sportsmanship).

As above

Wilkshire still going to be 1 of best players in europe in his position over then next 10 years without a doubt and regardless of his sportsmanship

Arsenal have been overrated in every FM so far There has always been an odd Arsenal love all over the premiership (excluding Utd/chelsea/Spurs/Hammers fans) with a huge over-estimation of players such as RvP, Vela and Nasri, alongside the damage done to young players (ala Walcott (who was showing promise then got snapped up) and is now happening to Wilshere (seems to play very much like an arsenal player 'diving etc' alot) and if not for injury, then Ramsey also) however Wilshere and Walcott have shown promise (Wilshere especially, but he is becoming a natural arsenal player and he's now losing that talent to poor sportsmanship).

As above

You have got to be a Spurs fan, what a load of tosh.

If Jack Wilshere is 'losing talent to poor sportsmanship' then please let the Barcelona midfield know to do this same, because they got dominated by Jack last night. I have seen every single minute of Jacks playing time for Arsenal and I haven't seen him dive once.

The difference between genius and insanity is measured only by success.

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this thread is all based on posters coming in and saying players from teams they support are under-rated or basing things on media hype. the one player i will comment on is martin kelly, yes i am a liverpool fan but anyone who denys this kid needs a boost knows jack about football.

this thread is all based on posters coming in and saying players from teams they support are under-rated or basing things on media hype. the one player i will comment on is martin kelly, yes i am a liverpool fan but anyone who denys this kid needs a boost knows jack about football.

Good shout about Jennings there, I've been impressed with what I've seen, also perhaps James Forrest at Celtic, he's looked great when I've seen him, and if you compare his stats to someone like John Fleck, they both seem about equal IRL to me but Forrest's stats are much lower

Cheick Tiote - has played well in his beginnings at Newcastle and certainly looks to be worthy of a few points extra so he really locks down that DM role.
Seamus Coleman - Could possibly do with a few points extra and certainly M/L adding to his positions
Magno Vieira - (Fleetwood Town) is a bit of a beast who deserves a higher rating than Donnelly
Danny Simpson - knocking on the england door (because we have 0 rightbacks in this country) was hampered by injury at the start of the season and just plain sucks on FM

Definitely would like to see some stats move round, i f for no other reason than to make starting a new game a bit more interesting.