There is no reason to do this, none what so ever. If they wanted a war there were easier ways, and a million places on earth that you could justify invading for humanitarian reasons (Sudan, Congo, N.Korea), drugs reasons (Columbia) or WMD reasons (N.Korea, Iran).Even if they were part of some "Grand Plan" by the evil Illuminati Overlords Of Doom, trying to bring all humanity into a living Hell for their own pleasure, its a heck of a funny way to do it.If somebody can give me a serious decent reason why all this would be done by any government on its own people then i'm willing to listen.Until then i see most of this as ravings of a few paranoid crazy people who just dislike the government.

I will however admit there are holes in the current story, things that need to be sorted out. Where's the videos of the Pentagon, why'd the 4th plane crash etc?

"In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us." - Thich Nhat Hanh

--------------------

QUOTE(psych°)

And don't write stuff about me in your sig which i have never said how about u quote what i say or leave it out all together

To be honest if a government really wanted the people to rally behind it and like it then it could just make it better for them to live in that country. I don't see the US ever doing much to improve the living standards of its people, so god knows why they would do this. It certainly hasn't rallied people round the government, not when you put it alongside all the other lies and cock-ups they have made in recent years.

Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 1-July 05
From: I try to be directly above the center of the earth
Member No.: 17,310

QUOTE(CaldMagi @ Dec 6 2005, 11:45 AM) [snapback]1020625[/snapback]

"In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us." - Thich Nhat Hanh

The U.S. government had no enemies at the time?! That is implying the government did it to create an enemy, but there were plenty of American enemies, I must say...

--------------------

QUOTE(Styx)

Dancin' on a landmine baby one leg left, I can still crawl and I'm not dead yet. You better get a bigger gun, I'm not dead yet.

Either way - who cares? The towers fell, 2000 people died. If there was a controlled explosion, the towers fell, 2000 people died. If it was a plane hitting the towers fell, 2000 people died. If someone threw a can of coke at it then the building fell, and 2000 died. What's the difference?

Yeah exactly my thoughts too, im actually locked in a debate about this very topic on another forum I frequent and said this very same thing. Then they came at me saying "who cares? 3,000 people died!!", but I dont really think they understood what I was saying, but like Mello said above, the towers fell, it doesnt matter how it happened, its in the past, no matter what really might have happened or not, we cant take it back, there is no point dwelling on it really.

I havent watched that video, but have read about the conspiracy theories, I personally think the whole thing is a joke, all these "smart arses" seem to have the facts about the building collapsing, but can never seem to think of a reasonanble excuse as to why the American government would want to blow up 4 of its planes, destroy 3 of its buildings and kill 3,000 of its citizens, and any "motives" I have heard from the conspiracy theorists, are very poor, such as "the U.S wanted to control oil prices" and "they wanted to spread democracy through out the middle east", yeah so they went through all of that carnage and shit, just to control the oil prices? Give me a break, I know the government are pricks, but they're still humans, they still have human compassion.

But I guess with every event like this, there are always gonna be conspiracy theories, and while there are alot of true facts to the conspiracy against 9/11, there are/were also more solid facts pointing to Tupac Shakur still being alive than dead, but the fact is, he is dead, just because there are more facts that point towards one thing, doesnt always mean that it points you down the right path.

There is such thing as coincidence you know, no matter how big it might be, again Tupacs "still alive" conspiracy is another good example of this.

EDIT:

Also on the 9/11 "deliberate planted explosives" issue, those who believe this always say how no building in history with steel interior beams has collapsed due to a fire, well what they're forgetting is that probally none of those buildings had a 100+ tonne plane flown into them before hand.

To be honest if a government really wanted the people to rally behind it and like it then it could just make it better for them to live in that country. I don't see the US ever doing much to improve the living standards of its people, so god knows why they would do this. It certainly hasn't rallied people round the government, not when you put it alongside all the other lies and cock-ups they have made in recent years.

It's a lot easier to make the rest of the world look bad than make your country look good.

--------------------

QUOTE(LMOZ)

drive carfuly,because every secend a shrak can teleport itself to your car, and try to drive your car (if you have one) with shark in it.

Maybe true, but i doubt even Bush and his government are stupid enough to try this.The guy can't string a sentence together or even open a door without making an arse of things. I doubt he had much to do with it, even if the government did this.I doubt anyone in the US would do this, it's not the sort of country where this sort of thing goes on. From my experience, a lot of US people are very patriotic and i'd imagine the idea of them needing to do this to themselves just to have a war would not go down too well.

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 222
Joined: 2-August 04
From: Between the Ritz and the Rubble
Member No.: 15

I know, I'm just trying to be even-handed.

Heard the conspiracy theory that they allowed Pearl Harbour to happen so that they could enter the 'war? Even that's more realistic than this (because of the lack of Japanese motive). But that's not saying much.

And yeah, the door opening. Did you see that on Have I Got News For You?

--------------------

QUOTE(LMOZ)

drive carfuly,because every secend a shrak can teleport itself to your car, and try to drive your car (if you have one) with shark in it.

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 222
Joined: 2-August 04
From: Between the Ritz and the Rubble
Member No.: 15

I'll google it to get some "sources" in a minute. Basically American high-command was supposedly desperate to come to the Ally's aid, so they faked a bombing on Pearl Harbour as justification to the American people.

I think to an extent it's true; in that they played the Pearl Harbour card as justification, but I very much doubt it was caused by America v_v

Interesting read.But i get the feeling that a lot of people would find it a big insult to claim the US caused the attack there. A lot of the evidence again relies on you being a paranoid loony who thinks there is some New World Order out to get us.Some of the claims are ridiculous, they really are.They even blame the masons for it, claiming they are a satan worshiping cult.I'm not a mason, but even i know that it's unlikely they are satan worshipers.Claiming the masons are satanists is typical of conspiracy theorists, they think they know there is some big plan and all these "orders" and "cults" are in it together. Maybe if they read a bit of history they'd find that a lot of what the claim is nonsense.I can't help feeling that most conspiracy theories suffer similar problems.

They all try to piece together bit of info that point to some sinister plan, but often ignore evidence that proves otherwise. And a lot of it relies on the reader actually being affraid of the government anyway.

I watched it, and I am baffled. The whole thing near the end where there are explosions going off while the tower is collapsing is mind boggling. But I'm still curious to how many calls in total there were made from the planes. And what about the people who died on the planes? I don't get how it could be a totally separate plane.

When buildings collapse, wires, ect, break. When wires break, (especially high voltage lines) (which would be going through the building) ARC, and in some cases can be explosive in nature, if they are grounded sufficiently.

QUOTE(Mattay @ Dec 3 2005, 06:15 PM) [snapback]1017319[/snapback]

The hole in the Pentagon looked like it was hit by a thomahawk cruise missle...Not a Boeing 757, and that is the part that makes you wonder. I think the U.S. Government has been keeping something from its citizens. O_o

How do you know what a thomahawk cruise missile looks like? How do you know what a boeing 757 looks like? Or did you just trust that bias video?

QUOTE(ride_bmx @ Dec 4 2005, 05:13 AM) [snapback]1017976[/snapback]

ok i might be wrong but i see that for a fire so large to take down a building that has many reinforceements in its structure, wouldnt it need huge amounts of oxygen?, how tall were these buildings?

This is an appromation: how tall is an average story?

about.....say....between 3 and 4metres? so 3m x 110 storys

so this is about 330m tall at the smallest if my guessing is correct....440m tall at the most

how much oxygen is at these hights?Is it enough for a massive fire to take down a well desgned building?

and as i have never seen this question asked, im asking it.

I mean Im not saying its not possible but is it?

Theres no difference in the ammount of atmosphere. Ever been to the mountains... they are usually 4000 feet above sea level, you dont notice a difference in the ammount of oxigen there do you? The twin towers were less than 2000 feet tall.

QUOTE(CaldMagi @ Dec 4 2005, 07:13 AM) [snapback]1018037[/snapback]

Lol @ the Pentagon conspiracy. Even I believe an airplane hit the Pentagon. Kinda weird though, that in the world's most secured area, there is no footage of the crash whatsoever.