I know this forum has been rapped lately for being a little too 'fogey friendly' and also that it is fundamentally about drummers and drumming, but I also know that there are some other people like me here who are in their 40s, 50s, who have full fledged careers but still manage to work in some professional gigs on the ocassional weekend.

My question though is about none of the above. I was wondering how many of you have made a career change late in life. Spent most of your working life in one career and made a big change thereafter.... by choice or by neccesity.

Working as an analyst but these days I'm mostly caring for my elderly father, which is a tough gig for me because I have zero nurturing instincts. The future is uncertain.

Abe, surely you're not thinking of changing careers ... or has Hiromi offered you a gig? :)

LOL, yea right, maybe if Im good I'll get to polish her Steinway.... : ) Yes, there is a fork in the road and there is an option which includes less travel, which is very tempting. Gigging should remain unaffected in both situations- couple of times a month.

I hear you on your situation, and I dont buy the line " I dont have any nurturing instincts"

It'd be a shame to walk away from a career like yours, but I can understand your wish not to travel all the time.

Here's an idea ... we could swap jobs! (analyst, not carer).

I'll pop Dad in a nursing home and I'll zip around the world being creative and you can do 9 to 5 in a comfortable office doing the bidding of a bunch of floundering executives ... and you'd be getting home in time to kick the dog and beat the kids :)

Working as an analyst but these days I'm mostly caring for my elderly father, which is a tough gig for me because I have zero nurturing instincts. The future is uncertain.

Now that's a tough gig I know only too well. Chin up girl :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna

Abe, or has Hiromi offered you a gig? :)

Argghh, that would scare the crap out of me (plus, I wouldn't be concentrating exclusively on the music) ;)

Yes Abe. Done that, & sort of doing that again now. Ok, it's a long story with me, & I'm sure you know most of it, so I won't bore you with the detail.

20 years of corporate company building crap. The first 10 years working my arse off to build things up. The second 10 years working at the top of my industry, & all the stress, travelling, BS, etc that entails. I took a year out (mostly enforced due to ill health), then back into the game but at a consulting level, & now part time. The consulting thing enables me to manage my time, yet maintain a background income. I'm now moving slowly towards directing my energies into the Guru project. Absolutely no chance of getting a return on my investment in the next 2 years, let alone any income, but I'm hopeful that will succeed & mature to the point where I am able to cut a living eventually. It's not a great financially sound idea, frankly, if I wanted to make big money, I could simply flick a switch & go back into my previous industry, but it is so much more fulfilling.

I've had enough scares in my life to realise it's all about experiences & fulfilment, so long as you can cover the basics of living. It's my dearest hope that any change you're making is for the same reasons.

I've had enough scares in my life to realise it's all about experiences & fulfilment, so long as you can cover the basics of living. It's my dearest hope that any change you're making is for the same reasons.

I was hoping you would respond, because your history is somewhat similar to mine.. at least some of it.

Nothing like a health issues to bring priorites into sharp focus. We are dealing with one as a family as you know, so I do get it.

My option brings me a little bit closer to my passion, though it is still the proverbial 'day gig'. It has more to do with the business of music than previously... dont really know if thats good or bad, yet.

Your last paragraph is something Im grateful for because it makes me think... and consider my options purely from an internal perspective..

Change is scary at this stage in my career and one wonders if one can make the transition smoothly... ya, fulfilment... now I need to find out what that is : )

It'd be a shame to walk away from a career like yours, but I can understand your wish not to travel all the time.

Here's an idea ... we could swap jobs! (analyst, not carer).

I'll pop Dad in a nursing home and I'll zip around the world being creative and you can do 9 to 5 in a comfortable office doing the bidding of a bunch of floundering executives ... and you'd be getting home in time to kick the dog and beat the kids :)

Would be happy to except I have no head for numbersdatacrunchingtech wizardry. The idea of travel is glamourous, only if your're not travelling. Trust me!

Im ready to walk away, I think Pol, but its just a little nerve wracking .. do I have the energy to try and make a go of a new thing, is the ugly question sitting on my chest every night thesedays.

I'm someone who is in the age range you mention that has had no choice but to switch. I worked for a large corporation doing what I enjoyed doing for almost 20 years until just last year all of our work was shipped overseas.

Unfortunately there's not much left of that sort of work any longer here in the States and I'm not sure how interested my wife and I are in leaving family behind by relocating to one of the few other states where that sort of work is (for the time being). This leaves me into a situation where a career change is a must.

While I will miss what I used to do, my heart and obligation is not with any corporation - ultimately it's with my family. So as long as we can make do with some sort of work situation where our lives are content in the big picture, we'll be satisfied.

My suggestion to you if you are planning on a switch is be prepared in all aspects - emotionally & financially. If you haven't already, get some books and read up on what to anticipate.

.... no choice... not much left of that sort of work any longer here.. .... work situation where our lives are content in the big picture, we'll be satisfied.... read up on what to anticipate.

Good luck!

Thanks dmacc. Its is saddening to hear of stories of the economy beating people up where there are no choices, but you are right, the big picture is key and educating myself with the new scenario might actally be stimulating. I hope things work out for you & your family in you new circumstances.

Would be happy to except I have no head for numbersdatacrunchingtech wizardry. The idea of travel is glamourous, only if your're not travelling. Trust me!

Im ready to walk away, I think Pol, but its just a little nerve wracking .. do I have the energy to try and make a go of a new thing, is the ugly question sitting on my chest every night thesedays.

Screw the glamour :) I simply haven't travelled much and doing it for work seems like a cushy way to do it because you have people help organise things. Just for, say, 3 to 5 years and then return to blobdom.

Not easy to get out of your comfort zone after a long settled period. When I work out how to do it I'll pass it on ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmacc

I worked for a large corporation doing what I enjoyed doing for almost 20 years until just last year all of our work was shipped overseas.

Offshoring. Outsourcing. Downsizing. Everyone's doing it. My work's obsessed with it. I've been hoping for a redundancy but I pass on the numbers and they love numbers. I refuse to spin the figures in the negative way the top brass want - if there's mitigating circumstances they're going to see it.

It's dumb ... they almost always overdo it and end up with corporate anorexia and loss of corporate knowledge.

So now, dmacc, you've been pushed out of your comfort zone and have to explore option #2. Hopefully your adjustment period will last long enough to be stimulating, but not long enough to be too wearing.

A kick up the bum is good for us at times, but there are limits, especially at this age.

Abe knows where I'm coming from here; Travelling with work is a bummer. The mindset, the stress, the obligations, not to mention the scheduling, oh, & did I mention the expectation of results? It's fine the first few times out, but I spent 15 years away from home for 9 months + / year (not in one chunk). There were highlights, don't get me wrong, but they were few & far between. Travelling soon gets tiresome, but it did dramatically widen my outlook on life, so for that, I'm grateful.

Oh, Abe, there is one very boring thing to consider: Remember that most of your value resides in your reputation/experience within your present industry. Be prepared for that "starting over at the bottom" hurdle, but use your accumulated wisdom to climb back up more rapidly than before. Never underestimate just how much easier things are for you now, as a result of your equity in the game :)

I've taken the big plunge several times in my life, and at 53 years of age, I'm about to undertake another plunge and another country move, although I'm not 100% confident about this one, I will have to see what the future is upholding for me. :)

All my previous career moves were somehow unintentional, it's mainly due to the fact that I moved to different countries around Europe and the avaibility of jobs in every country, not always easy to find a day's job within your field of work, so far I have done about 5 major different careers, not counting the in between jobs to keep the cash flow coming in. :)

The reasons to move so often accross Europe have been both by choice and/or by nessecity.

Not easy to get out of your comfort zone after a long settled period. When I work out how to do it I'll pass it on ...

When I have found out how to do it, I'll let you know, so far it's all been about being at the right place at the right time and making the effort to settle down in a new environment, and I always wondered what my life would have been by remaining in the comfort zone of my first or second career. :)

Does 63 count as being in ones 50's. First does the fork in the road offer job security? Does it provide you with something you want to do?. And is it something you have the skills to do? If you can answer yes to all of the above, then go for it.

Oh boy, does that puzzle me :) I often think what I'd become if I'd remained a jobbing drummer. Probably nothing attractive, although I'd like to think otherwise.

I tend to think that when you're into a career, you make it work, and take all the necessity, effort and motivation to remain at a satisfying professional level for your own self estime, if you had choseen to remain a jobbing drummer, you'll probably would have made the necessary commitment to stay at the level of the evolution within the music industry :)

For my part, as far as music is concerned, I would probably been better off by staying in my country, it has never been the same after my first country move. :)

does the fork in the road offer job security? Does it provide you with something you want to do?. And is it something you have the skills to do? If you can answer yes to all of the above, then go for it.

Honestly GD,.......I think so. I think so. I think so. : )

Job security wise it transitions me into a more relevant and growing industry. DO I want to do it, yes... its more time in the music industry even though its the uglier side of it. Do I have the skills...well sort of.. its like being a veterinarian and then switching over to being a dog walker.. some things change some remain the same ( in principle )

MAD's so right in that we all find a way to make things work even if circumstances are not ideal, and find ways to be be happy and content regardless of the cards dealt out to us.

I've taken the big plunge several times in my life, and at 53 years of age, I'm about to undertake another plunge and another country move, although I'm not 100% confident about this one, I will have to see what the future is upholding for me. :)

All my previous career moves were somehow unintentional, it's mainly due to the fact that I moved to different countries around Europe and the avaibility of jobs in every country, not always easy to find a day's job within your field of work, so far I have done about 5 major different careers, not counting the in between jobs to keep the cash flow coming in. :)

The reasons to move so often accross Europe have been both by choice and/or by nessecity.

I wish you success in your new career. ;-)

Thanks, Henri. Like you yourself say, there is no downside in the end if you have the right perspective. It builds character!!! : ) Just curious, what is the unemployemnt rate in EU collectively? The US is finally somewwhat down from last year to about 8%

PS- Andy is the way he is because he's had this incredible life, and not all of it has been fun. ( You can take that any way you like ; )

Thanks dmacc. Its is saddening to hear of stories of the economy beating people up where there are no choices, but you are right, the big picture is key and educating myself with the new scenario might actally be stimulating. I hope things work out for you & your family in you new circumstances.
...

Thanks. I hope the same for you as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna

Offshoring. Outsourcing. Downsizing. Everyone's doing it. My work's obsessed with it. I've been hoping for a redundancy but I pass on the numbers and they love numbers. I refuse to spin the figures in the negative way the top brass want - if there's mitigating circumstances they're going to see it.

It's dumb ... they almost always overdo it and end up with corporate anorexia and loss of corporate knowledge.

So now, dmacc, you've been pushed out of your comfort zone and have to explore option #2. Hopefully your adjustment period will last long enough to be stimulating, but not long enough to be too wearing.

A kick up the bum is good for us at times, but there are limits, especially at this age.

First - yes - screw the glamor of travel. I did it and hated it. I also agree, they downsize until it hurts them but they don't care. I left on good terms though.

Not totally sure what #2 option is but I hope to think something will work out for the better. I'll never make what I was making since my local economy is just not that good any longer with those types of job situations so, like a drummer does, I'll need to improvise in life & work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple

Abe knows where I'm coming from here; Travelling with work is a bummer. The mindset, the stress, the obligations, not to mention the scheduling, oh, & did I mention the expectation of results? It's fine the first few times out, but I spent 15 years away from home for 9 months + / year (not in one chunk). There were highlights, don't get me wrong, but they were few & far between. Travelling soon gets tiresome, but it did dramatically widen my outlook on life, so for that, I'm grateful.

Oh, Abe, there is one very boring thing to consider: Remember that most of your value resides in your reputation/experience within your present industry. Be prepared for that "starting over at the bottom" hurdle, but use your accumulated wisdom to climb back up more rapidly than before. Never underestimate just how much easier things are for you now, as a result of your equity in the game :)

Andy

I agree - the traveling is terrible!

Extremely insightful reply on the balance as well.. Kudos for that statement.

I worked for the state of Texas for ten years and was laid off along with 20% of our agency 13 months ago. I've had a knock about life..managing retail stores, selling high end stereo, high end Italian furniture, outside sales. None of it was very satisfying.

Two months before the layoff, my brother, who I was very close to, died of cancer.

I've wrestled bipolar disorder for 30 years and after that one-two punch, I said, f*** it. I had some money and my brother left me some money but it won't go much further.

I haven't even done a resume or looked for a job and I won't for a few more months. I think that I've needed this time and my doctors haven't pushed me. Sometimes you don't want to push people like me.

So, maybe I'll find something bearable but all I really need is a paycheck and very good insurance.

I've been seeing stories here and there about corporate types and their families saying it just isn't worth it. So they are moving to rural areas, buying small farms and getting busy. Farming is no cakewalk either but it beats the dog eat dog corporate climate in my humble opinion.

Offshoring. Outsourcing. Downsizing. Everyone's doing it. My work's obsessed with it. I've been hoping for a redundancy but I pass on the numbers and they love numbers. I refuse to spin the figures in the negative way the top brass want - if there's mitigating circumstances they're going to see it.

It's dumb ... they almost always overdo it and end up with corporate anorexia and loss of corporate knowledge.

Man, can I ever relate. My company has gone completely apeshit with the staff reduction over the past 6 or 7 years. They don't want to hear a voice of reason, they want everyone to jump on board and speak the corporate line. It's f****** nauseating and I refuse to do it.

I've been seeing stories here and there about corporate types and their families saying it just isn't worth it. So they are moving to rural areas, buying small farms and getting busy. Farming is no cakewalk either but it beats the dog eat dog corporate climate in my humble opinion.

In my case it's not corporate but different public settings with different lines of work. Leveraging transferable skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8Mile

Man, can I ever relate. My company has gone completely apeshit with the staff reduction over the past 6 or 7 years. They don't want to hear a voice of reason, they want everyone to jump on board and speak the corporate line. It's f****** nauseating and I refuse to do it.

What a dismal trend.

For sure man. It was fed to us for years before it finally happened to us/me.

.... full fledged careers but still manage to work in some professional gigs on the ocassional weekend.

11 years working for the Postal Service, and in 1990, I let that all go. The next 15 years, I worked music retail. Way less money, but way more fun. Every job, from 1973 up ... always placed me in a position that drums/band would always be #1, as far as schedule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee

My question though is about none of the above. I was wondering how many of you have made a career change late in life. Spent most of your working life in one career and made a big change thereafter.... by choice or by neccesity.

2 hip replacements in 4 months .... and I have basically a blank page to write out my new "career" path. And whatever that entails, I'm gonna have fun. My goal is to make enough to keep a roof over my head, food on the table, gas in my rides, and new heads on my drums. I've already got a drum gig lined up for June/July.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee

Old dog new tricks, anyone?

Certainly. I get a band (or aggregation of musicians) together, I have 4 primary venues to pursue. My Kat opens the doors to the "biker" scene. Bikers love beer and music. My Iltis is two fold, it gets me into the "military vehicle collectors" circle, and I gets me into the VW circle (it has a 1.7 liter VW engine. And then, the "art" circle, providing "avant garde" soundscapes to art shows, gallery openings, etc. As of right now, I have absolutely no recording gear. This will change, very soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee

I'm on the verge of taking a big plunge.

I'm sure it's well thought out, and I'm sure you'll have a "damn the torpedoes" attitude. For me, failure is not an option.

__________________
This seat does not recline as per Federal Aviation Regulation 121.310 (f)(3)

@Resohead- In our need to get ahead the one thing we arent conditioned to do it to count our blessings, and despite all my frustrations, angst and the midlife thing, I've got to say I have been very lucky with my career. Here's wishing you well in your transitions.

@Polly- If I could write a book called 'I knew then what I know now' it would emprically prove that no corporation really cares about its people and you are always just a number, and easily replaced or duplicated, in the end.. and the realization always comes as a surpise!

@ Harry- when I grow up I want to be like you, man... : ) I want to live with your attitude.

@ dmacc- right on! You could commit murder and justify it in the name of shareholders. History is littered with stories..

@Resohead- In our need to get ahead the one thing we arent conditioned to do it to count our blessings, and despite all my frustrations, angst and the midlife thing, I've got to say I have been very lucky with my career. Here's wishing you well in your transitions.

Thanks, aydee. I do work on being grateful but I also forget to from time to time. My issue is about making peace with life but also, and I hope I'm right, giving myself permission to take time for myself when that voice inside me says to. I told someone that sitting on my butt probably isn't productive but I really think that this time is allowing me a much needed break and I may not know why for years that it was exactly the right thing for me.

The happiest I've every been at a job was driving tractors and combines on a farm. Ridiculously tough work but I loved it. Too old to even think about doing that again.

WOW this post couldnt have come at a better time for me. I've been in the Army for 20 years. My retirement paperwork was just approved for this fall. So i have had a lot of thoughts on what to do next. I'm working on a degree, just to have something to help furture plans what ever those plans should end up. In high school I was dead set on being a rock star, do ya think I should relook that one?

WOW this post couldnt have come at a better time for me. I've been in the Army for 20 years. My retirement paperwork was just approved for this fall. So i have had a lot of thoughts on what to do next. I'm working on a degree, just to have something to help furture plans what ever those plans should end up. In high school I was dead set on being a rock star, do ya think I should relook that one?

Yes!! Rock star. Longevity (Stones, etc)

When I worked in state government, I started to realize just how many there were ex-military. Makes sense, work 10 years to be vested, in Texas, have free insurance for life and another pension to be tacked onto your military one. Plus, we had more holidays, comp time and sick time that it was a good setup for musicians or anyone. Good luck!

@Polly- If I could write a book called 'I knew then what I know now' it would empirically prove that no corporation really cares about its people and you are always just a number, and easily replaced or duplicated, in the end.. and the realization always comes as a surprise!

We're not always easily replaced or duplicated. Since I started caring for dad, my work has tried to find interim replacements - they've hired and sacked two so far. They are working feverishly to develop a system to render what I'm doing at the moment redundant but that's maybe a couple of years away from realisation.

Ironic, here I am hanging out for a redundancy and they're clinging to me like a tick while so many people are desperate to hold their jobs and being booted.

Agree about corporations. Another irony, people are so often nice as individuals but put them into large groups and they become a heartless machine. Put them in small groups (like a band) and they just go mad :)

I've wrestled bipolar disorder for 30 years and after that one-two punch, I said, f*** it. I had some money and my brother left me some money but it won't go much further.

Indeed, I know that deal. My "disorder" was, even though I wasn't a rock star, I knew how to party like one. Burned up about $150K, doing that. In hindsight, not a good investment.

And I too, when I left the Post Office, got a lump sum. My retirement. Enough cash to keep me alive, and afloat for a year-and-a-half, while I tried to get my "stuff" together. And when I figured the "smoke had cleared, and the dust had settled", I found me a job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by resohead

I haven't even done a resume or looked for a job and I won't for a few more months. I think that I've needed this time and my doctors haven't pushed me. Sometimes you don't want to push people like me.

Amen. In the Postal Service, so many of the "management" types loved to "push", and as it turns out, these mini-dictator types can set into motion "disasters".

Quote:

Originally Posted by resohead

So, maybe I'll find something bearable but all I really need is a paycheck and very good insurance.

And those jobs are out there. Keep your needs/wants simple. A roof over your head. Food in your belly. A positive attitude. As they say, "Keep It Simple". (he's also a very cool guy)

One of my main joys ... is watching a good sunset. It's a free show, and it happens every day. Another is watching the hawks soar above my house/neighborhood. There are beautiful things out there ... they go on every day. Cost nothing, and take me to a wonderful mindset. Just find the "channel" you wanna watch ... and plug in. It's "worked" for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon e rotten

The only thing you have to fear......is fear itself!

A lot of fear is bad, but a little (just a touch) is necessary. It's what's known as our survival mechanism. Keeps us on our toes. Keeps us out of harms way, and alive. For me, fear is sometimes the voice of commonsense telling me to "leave, now!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by resohead

She was right but I would like to work with kids at some level that have been abused or just never got a fair shake from life. It would either heal me or kill me I'm afraid.

Healing would be the "option" I'd pick. But throwing yourself on the grenade, while a noble gesture, can cause one great harm. Maybe "dial back" your scope, a bit. Start off small. Go work/volunteer at a rescue mission. If you're in a current band, maybe get the whole band to come along. My experience with that, was wonderful. First you help serve food, then you perform for the people you just fed, then you hang out and talk to people.

Another cool gig was performing for CLIMB (a local "home for the blind"). They can't see you (which, for me, might be a good thing), but they can listen. And a very appreciative audience.

Unfortunately, there are lots of people than need help/can use a hand. Or need just a kind word. And almost everyone I know, hopes at least "someone out there cares". As they say .... Random acts of kindness ... is a good thing.

__________________
This seat does not recline as per Federal Aviation Regulation 121.310 (f)(3)

This thread has been great to read. So much good perspective and the realization that there are a lot of good people out there like me. I did 10 years in the military out of college, then decided to chase the corporate carrot that so many of you have described...a soul-less and fruitless pursuit on my part. I turned into the angry guy that was always pushing too hard to make things happen. Somewhere in there, I bought some drums after giving it up for those 10 years. Interesting how much more I appreciate playing now than when I was a bit younger...much more like therapy! I did a career change at 40...closer to what I did in the military and away from the corporate gig. I don't make as much money but I am way happier and my wife and kids don't fear my return at the end of the work day. The job change, a good family, and a great set of drums kept me sane! Go for it! Departing my soapbox now...

Just curious, what is the unemployemnt rate in EU collectively? The US is finally somewwhat down from last year to about 8%

The unemployemnt rate in Europe collectively is 10,7% as of January 2012, with the lowest rate in Austria 4%, the Netherland 5% and Luxembourg 5,1%, the highest rate are in Spain 23,3%, Greece 19,9% and Ireland 14,8%.

Not a very great figure for Europe, I hope that the contacts I have in other countries will be able to help job wise when I move to another country again, fingers crossed. :)

Unfortunately, there are lots of people than need help/can use a hand. Or need just a kind word. And almost everyone I know, hopes at least "someone out there cares". As they say .... Random acts of kindness ... is a good thing.

Sage advice all round, Harry.

Another option is at the other end of the scale - the "boom industry" now (and in the foreseeable future) is elder care, which also includes things like shopping, chores and companionship.