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Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Originally Posted by Grif

Well, what a fine pickle I find myself into eh? Just one of those great mistakes in life I guess.

Well.. no, I disagree.. your main concern seems to be "I don't want to do this for the rest of my life" not "I can't survive 2 years of this drag".
the middle ground option kind of suggests itself.
complete your degree, get your licence, tough it out for the remaining period of those 2 years..take a sabbatical when you're done and look at what you really want to do, whether it requires re-training, whether you can use your completed degree/licence to practice some other profession, or whether you want to learn how to bake bread or fly helicopters for a living.
Whatever you'll decide to do, you'll always be able to say "I'm a licensed doctor", which impresses the ladies, will make your parents happy and tell them that whatever you end up doing, you've done your duty and made them proud.
Having a medical career to fall back on/pursue is a hell of a back-up plan in case that whatever you find out you want to do doesn't work out. They will surelly appreciate that, and so should you.
This does free you from your familial obbligations and gives you a solid base where from to move on to finding out what you really want to do. If you just hold off from getting employed as a doctor the very day you've completed your internship, you'll be virtually free to pursue any other avenue in life..starting with that sabbatical I mentioned earlier.
it gives you a reachable objective..something to look forward to when your daily grind brings you down... and if you play your cards right and tell your parents you'll complete the degree but don't want to be a doctor, they might get involved in helping you find what you really want to do... and you wont' be "a disappointment" later on, after you chance the course of your life.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Originally Posted by Jeff the Green

Ugh, I know how hard it can be when you're forced to take time off for medical reasons. It sucks, but if you need to do it don't hesitate.

Also check into whatever governmental assistance you might qualify for. I know in the States Social Security provides some safety net for people who can't work because of disabilities, and most other Western democracies have something similar.

What specifically are you worried about your mom freaking out about and messing up?

As far as the first bit...unfortunately I'm in that really annoying spot where I technically *could* complete a minimum wage job if I were willing to ignore properly working on my health and completely give up on getting an education. Which means, of course, that I'm not eligible for help.

As far as the second...I'm not exactly sure. I know she'll be furious, I wouldn't be surprised if she'd come out and try to bring me home. In any case if she finds out she'll make any time I spend at home miserable.

Hail to the Lord of Death and Destruction!CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Originally Posted by dehro

Well.. no, I disagree.. your main concern seems to be "I don't want to do this for the rest of my life" not "I can't survive 2 years of this drag".
the middle ground option kind of suggests itself.
complete your degree, get your licence, tough it out for the remaining period of those 2 years..take a sabbatical when you're done and look at what you really want to do, whether it requires re-training, whether you can use your completed degree/licence to practice some other profession, or whether you want to learn how to bake bread or fly helicopters for a living.
Whatever you'll decide to do, you'll always be able to say "I'm a licensed doctor", which impresses the ladies, will make your parents happy and tell them that whatever you end up doing, you've done your duty and made them proud.
Having a medical career to fall back on/pursue is a hell of a back-up plan in case that whatever you find out you want to do doesn't work out. They will surelly appreciate that, and so should you.
This does free you from your familial obbligations and gives you a solid base where from to move on to finding out what you really want to do. If you just hold off from getting employed as a doctor the very day you've completed your internship, you'll be virtually free to pursue any other avenue in life..starting with that sabbatical I mentioned earlier.
it gives you a reachable objective..something to look forward to when your daily grind brings you down... and if you play your cards right and tell your parents you'll complete the degree but don't want to be a doctor, they might get involved in helping you find what you really want to do... and you wont' be "a disappointment" later on, after you chance the course of your life.

Sound advice. But I wish I had the fortitude to grind for two years.

Interesting feeling at work today. I find myself no longer caring what happens to my patient. I feel angry for some undiscernable reason before swinging into feeling like bursting into tears. I don't feel like talking anymore.

An omnious sign, I feel. Am I officially depressed?

Originally Posted by Thanqol

We don't have enough pony to fill a subforum. We have enough friendship to fill a ponythread.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

That...is not a good sign.

I'm really sorry to do this Grif but I need to give you some harsh advice: if you really feel that you cannot care for your patients, then for their sake, you need to find another line of work. Remember that they are depending on you for help and that a misdiagnosis can cause even more problems than the condition itself.

Caring for someone day in, day out is unimaginably tough - unless you've worked in a hospital or care home, or you're unable to work to look after a relative 24 hours a day, its really hard to imagine how taxing it is on you. Not just physically but mentally as well and it's easy to become frustrated and upset.

I think Cassie's advice may be closer to the mark here. It's one thing to disappoint your parents but another to tell a patient you've accidently amputated their arm when instead you just meant to give them a flu shot.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

So, just to interject some happiness into this thread, I made myself go to a party where I knew only the hosts and no one else. Turns out it was a good idea as I met a cute girl and chatted her up for a bit. Friends with her on Facebook now and hopefully I'll be seeing her again! Apparently I'm not as completely socially inept as I thought?

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Originally Posted by The Succubus

That...is not a good sign.

I'm really sorry to do this Grif but I need to give you some harsh advice: if you really feel that you cannot care for your patients, then for their sake, you need to find another line of work. Remember that they are depending on you for help and that a misdiagnosis can cause even more problems than the condition itself.

Caring for someone day in, day out is unimaginably tough - unless you've worked in a hospital or care home, or you're unable to work to look after a relative 24 hours a day, its really hard to imagine how taxing it is on you. Not just physically but mentally as well and it's easy to become frustrated and upset.

I think Cassie's advice may be closer to the mark here. It's one thing to disappoint your parents but another to tell a patient you've accidently amputated their arm when instead you just meant to give them a flu shot.

Above all, ask yourself this question: what do you want?

I appreciate the honest answer. (Though I have yet to accidentally amputate an arm, thankfully. I have no intention of finding out though.) It's scary when I think back, all those times when my mood swings the wrong way (and it has been swinging alot of late) and my patients are the ones to suffer for it. At least I'm feeling somewhat better as of this post.

Originally Posted by bluewind95

When I was "scaring" Grif, I kind of wasn't doing so baselessly. Some people can take excessive (and frankly inhumane) work hours. Others aren't made for such abuse.

The first sign you're reaching your limits, or you're past your safe limits, tends to be being miserable.

Then comes exhaustion as you have never before experienced..

Then comes detachment and other such psychological manifestations.

... And from there, sometimes you can skip to illness or othersuch things.

He was already miserable. He was already drained well past normal exhaustion. These signs are from the body being too stressed to cope. Keep that up long enough and you WILL get sick.

Health, both physical and mental, is more valuable than having a certain job. But one must find some way to keep up finances too.

My parents tend not to think in terms of health, unfortunately. Strength of will counts a lot for them. (as in, "you can tough it out, no problem!")

Thank you for your honest opinions and answers, people. I have a lot to think about.

Originally Posted by Thanqol

We don't have enough pony to fill a subforum. We have enough friendship to fill a ponythread.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

I'm really glad you said that Grif. Doctors and medical folks are not robots or machines, no matter what our patients might think. We are human and we have all the weaknesses humans have, like being grumpy, being tired or being exasperated with our patients. It's only natural that there will be times when your concentration won't be a hundred percent and on those occasions we do the best we can and turn to our colleagues if something doesn't add up.

If you're feeling like that all the time, that's when you need a helping hand. Be strong buddy and good luck.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

I had a funny moment this morning, thought I'd share for the lols..
I was sitting on the highway, in a solidly packed queue, for about an hour.. luckily I had allowed for traffic or I would have reach my meeting late. as it turns out I got there just in time and the meeting went well because the customer finally decided to place an order (about effin' time, since I'd visited him 4 times now).
anyway, that's not the funny moment, albeit a positive one.

I spent part of the queue moping stuck behind one of those big trucks they use for transporting horses in, 4-6 at a time. you may have seen them, they look like lunchboxes on wheels, with very little in the way of openings, I guess not to scare the horses with traffic.
anyway, something was bugging me.. something other than the traffic jam..so I checked the music.
that wasn't it; normal radiostation with catchy blues record,
I checked the car.
nope, plenty of fuel, enging sounds normal, no warning lights..
I checked around me or in the mirror to see if I had forgotten to brush my hair or something.. again, no..
then I checked the truck ahead of me.. normal truck, yellow-ish colour.. but wait..there's something hanging from one of the openings at the top of the backdoor. something long and rubber-y
wait..it's moving..
what now? now it's climbing up towards the roof of the truck, except, on the outside..

well..it turns out, the truck didn't contain horses but at least one elephant, and I was looking at it's trunk sticking out of the window.
I was stuck in traffic behind a caravan of trucks belonging to a circus on the move towards it's next destination.
I guess this disqualifies me from feeling grumpy for the rest of the day

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

I wish there were a way to get help where they couldn't find out anything about you and didn't have any way at all to do anything to you. I mean, I know why they do it the way they do, but...last thing I need is yet another bigoted mental health person that gets scared of what they don't understand, and decides the best thing to do is cause more damage by calling people who don't understand either.

Hail to the Lord of Death and Destruction!CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Originally Posted by Sholos

So, just to interject some happiness into this thread, I made myself go to a party where I knew only the hosts and no one else. Turns out it was a good idea as I met a cute girl and chatted her up for a bit. Friends with her on Facebook now and hopefully I'll be seeing her again! Apparently I'm not as completely socially inept as I thought?

Congratulations! Thumbs up!

Seems to me that confidence and a bold front go a long way in social situations. If you act like you know what you're doing and you're not afraid people tend to go along even if you make a mistake. By contrast, acting frightened typically means people start attacking you even if your behavior is technically flawless.

Humans. Funny creatures.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

"Opportunities to do good are everywhere but the darkness is where the light needs to be".

-- Eliezer Yudkowski, author of "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Originally Posted by pendell

Congratulations! Thumbs up!

Seems to me that confidence and a bold front go a long way in social situations. If you act like you know what you're doing and you're not afraid people tend to go along even if you make a mistake. By contrast, acting frightened typically means people start attacking you even if your behavior is technically flawless.

Humans. Funny creatures.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I think the solution I've found is to get mildly drunk enough that I stop caring and just talk about random crap.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Hi guys, it's been an absolutely no-fun couple of weeks and I'd like to whine. Not really looking for advice, but feel free to weigh in if you like.

Spoiler

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So, I started college about five weeks ago. Moved across America, from Northern California to Philadelphia. Have been having absolutely no fun.
A pretty big source of anxiety here: I'm a pretty extroverted guy, but as those of you who've known me for a while can attest, I have approximately the personality and likeability of a rusty hacksaw, as well as more or less nonexistent social skills. I can join all the clubs in the world, spend every night at parties; meeting people isn't a problem. But all around me I'm watching kids at school, and my friends at other schools, forming (or starting to form) close friendships and having a good time. I think that's great, and I don't think I deserve anything better than what I've got, but what I've got is pretty minimal. A small handful of "friends" who'll put up with me, but would never, for example, ask me to hang out with 'em.
Meanwhile, I feel totally abandoned by my friends. With a tiny handful of exceptions, none of my friends back in California have made any effort to get in contact with me. Yeah, I can and do instigate contact with them, but you know how great it'd be if one of my friends would just IM me out of the blue and ask how I'm doing, or god forbid, that they miss me?
I'm upset because I feel deprived of attention and affection and I feel lonely and isolated. Vain? Absolutely. Entitled? Absolutely. Enough of you have told me on no uncertain terms that I'm vain and entitled that I guess this is pretty predictable.

I'm lonely and confused and overwhelmed and, from a rational point of view, I know this is probably temporary and in a few months I'll have made some real friends and found a niche to fill. But right now, I'm lonely and confused and overwhelmed. I'm so homesick it's physically painful, and my depression is worse than it's been in over a year.
I want one of my "friends" at this school to ask me if I want to hang out with them. I want one of my friends at home to ask me how I'm doing. I want a hug.
I wish I knew how to be the kind of person who deserved any of that.

Spoiler

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Yeah, I think I have an idea of how melodramatic and self-pitying this post is. I'm really sorry guys, but I've been here for more than five years and I try to be pretty good about NOT posting this kind of thing. Cut me some slack, I promise it won't happen again.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

That sounds very familiar. Unfortunately the closest I've found to a cure for it is going out and meeting people from this forum. And that's had the unfortunate side-effect that I'm now finding that I have a lot of trouble relating to people I don't immediately click with...

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Moff,

I don't know you well enough to say if you are vain and self-entitled. I've never had that impression of you. But even if you are, your post is not evidence of it.

I too moved across the country not that long ago. I left behind some very close friends who, I am sorry to say, have not been good about keeping in touch. I know they love me. And I also know life is Just Like That Sometimes. But knowing these things does not make it less frustrating or hurtful when I am the only one to send a Christmas card or an IM. I would really have liked a get well card or even a stupid email this summer when I was laid up with a broken clavicle. How hard is that, dammit?

Evidently, it is really hard. As you've noticed, even our dearest friends drop the ball.

Meanwhile, I've struggled to make new friends here. I seem to know lots of people who like me, but the one person I strongly bonded with - real "best friend" potential - moved away shortly after we met: she got an awesome teaching position abroad. I' thrilled for her, but sad for myself. Now she is part of the list of people I love but never hear from.

Friendship is hard work. And anyone who works hard, without making much headway, is entitled to complain a bit. And we all need and crave attention and affection. You don't come across as whining at all, Moff. You come across as what you say: someone who is feeling lonely and could use a hug.

I know it's not as good as a real hug, here is a virtual *hug* if you want one.

Take care.

-Monkey

.

"I don't swear just for the hell of it." -Henry Drummond, Inherit the Wind

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Well, I've done screwed the pooch. Phone was out this morning so I couldn't call in, called in the last two days because of severe gastronomic distress and general incontinence, and now they're in the middle of closing or closed.

I think my drinking water may in fact be contaminated to boot.

Originally Posted by Keld Denar

+3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Well, I've done screwed the pooch.

you've screwed what now?

@moff
almost anybody I know has lost contact with 99% of their high school buddies and only hang out with a very small handful of people from college. yes, my best friend is a classmate from high school..but we were a class of 31 and to this day I haven't heard from anyone but him since the day after our finals. as for other friends.. there are maybe 5 people I consider friends... the rest are social acquantances who for the most part fade out of the scenery after a while.
when we're in high school and college we like to think that life is this magic place where you get to keep anybody who is in your life in it forever..then years pass and you notice that half the people you cared about you now can take or leave.. and the other half you don't even know what's become of them. they've been replaced by new friends, colleagues, relatives of your partner...and so on.
I find the situation you've described to be pretty much as it is for everybody.
I'm sure you'll make new friends, eventually.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

I'm currently feeling horrible. I wish I wasn't on some crazy diet, or that were there some store still open to buy rum. I'd wish I were anywhere but in my skin.

I think I'm a fairly down to earth person, as well as a human behaviour enthusiast, which makes me far more qualified to deal with my own turmoils them a person who has no idea what is it that her brain is trying to get her to do. Still... That can only go so far. Sure, emotions are patterns, self-sustaining and positive-looping if not interrupted, and sadness is reconforting... But still, so would be music, even if the strings it were played upon were my veins and I were to take a knife for an arc. The whole process is still distressing, no matter how logically I can view it.

So yeah, submit or subdue, fight or flee. Currently submitting... Depression was made (or our adaptation to our enviroment made it so) to be confortable mainly so that humans would stay put and not kill themselves against overwhelming odds, or perhaps so that a modicum of social cohesion, even at the price of self-expression, would be possible (who knows; wild guesses aside, I'm still waiting for the designer notes on humans to show up). So, here I'm, fully aware of the circunstances, and yet, still, unwilling to move. I'm setting the standard here, and nonetheless, it's for my own suffering.

Just one more week... After this, then it'll be my own world again, or at least, it'll be the same hostile world as ever, but I'll be choosing differently when presented with the FoF scenario.

Sadness bears such a weight... Wish I had someone to talk to. I've broken my own dreams and put an end to all my hopes, as far as I could... I've come to try to accept this existence as it is, to look at the ugly face of the world and kiss it, just to throw up afterwards... I've wanted to know its nauseating taste, in order to not be surprised. I gave up on confiding on any one else, but still... I miss it so. It's funny though... For I've never had anyone worth of my trust. "We're temporary arrangements", I guess... Still, I can't imagine laying down my burdens anymore.

Wish that, perhaps, I didn't know how to deal with it. But them again, I do, and being able to bear the burden has always been a problem. Breaking down sounds far more sweet... Even if human emotions are worthless.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

I made up my mind. Handing in my resignation letter tomorrow. No more dithering about.

As they say, damn the torpedoes.

I predict a very rough week ahead when I tell my parents. (Although it should come as a complete surprise for them.)

Before you hand in the resignation letter, I would still suggest seeing someone at the hospital to explain the situation and ask for an alternate means of completing the internship like thing.

You may not have the legal right to require something be done about it (or you may, but you would need to see a lawyer), but that's not the point. The point is that there may be an option you're not aware of and someone may help you to find it, even if you don't have that right to require something be done.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Before you hand in the resignation letter, I would still suggest seeing someone at the hospital to explain the situation and ask for an alternate means of completing the internship like thing.

You may not have the legal right to require something be done about it (or you may, but you would need to see a lawyer), but that's not the point. The point is that there may be an option you're not aware of and someone may help you to find it, even if you don't have that right to require something be done.

Actually I have. There is the unofficial method of delaying your housemanship for a year or so but that requires connections and stuff. Otherwise no go. Bureaucracy here is notoriously inflexible. The one in charge, even more so.

Originally Posted by Thanqol

We don't have enough pony to fill a subforum. We have enough friendship to fill a ponythread.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

So, uh, after a bout over a decade long fighting kidney issues, my dad lost the war earlier tonight. And, uh, while that's something bumming me down, it's not the big thing on my chest that's bumming me down. My mom has informed my brother and I that a loan was going to start being repaid shortly using what funds would have been received from his Social Security payments, which is a huge problem because that's not going to be coming now. So, the way my mom has put this, is that the family has somewhere between 2 to 4 days to make a $15,000 payment to the bank that issued the loan. I have some information from the bank about the account they had, but I just don't see any payment terms or anything on it, so hopefully she's just swept up in the circumstances and exaggerating on things. Yes, he had insurance for this, no, it will not cover anywhere near that expense (It will likely not even cover an order of magnitude less than that), and no, spontaneous car washes never are as successful in the real world as they are in the movies. I have maybe a third of that in my entire life savings (ignoring that I have expenses, too), my brother certainly has less than I do, my sister is probably comparable to mine.

I currently have plans to go to the bank tomorrow with my mom to see if I can get more exact information on the situation. It's the waiting for more information that's killing me.

"Okay, so I'm going to quick draw and dual wield these one-pound caltrops as improvised weapons..."
---
"Oh, hey, look! Blue Eyes Black Lotus!" "Wait what, do you sacrifice a mana to the... Does it like, summon a... What would that card even do!?" "Oh, it's got a four-energy attack. Completely unviable in actual play, so don't worry about it."

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Does social security come in one big payment like that? I can't imagine a single $15k payment from SS. As such how can the whole loan amount of $15k be due so soon.

The bank may conceivably give you some leeway due to circumstances anyway if you go speak to them in person. A bank wants to work with you to get their money. They wouldn't want you to go into Bankruptcy since they may get nothing back in that case. While still a serious issue its probably not as disastrous as it initially seems, so maybe take some solace in that.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

My gut says to seek expert financial advice and assistance. No bank wants a default on a loan, so there may be some way to reschedule the payments or renegotiate the loan.

My pastor at church did finances before he went into ministry, and he gives this sort of advice out for free. Is there someone in your community like that who can help?

Sharp41: I wish I had something really intelligent to say. Life stinks. :hug: This is the kind of situation where people just need to sit by a campfire together and look at the stars without speaking, but that's hard to do online. :(.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Last edited by pendell; 2012-10-31 at 08:14 AM.

"Opportunities to do good are everywhere but the darkness is where the light needs to be".

-- Eliezer Yudkowski, author of "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Originally Posted by pendell

Congratulations! Thumbs up!

Seems to me that confidence and a bold front go a long way in social situations. If you act like you know what you're doing and you're not afraid people tend to go along even if you make a mistake. By contrast, acting frightened typically means people start attacking you even if your behavior is technically flawless.

Humans. Funny creatures.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I'm always a big fan of this! Be yourself and the rest will take care of itself. If she doesn't like who you are then... it's probably not worth pursuing. I always felt that if you could just get a girl to smile and laugh you were on the right track. No need to be self conscious or try to be over-impressive.

Congrats Sholos!

Coidzor, please go to the doctor and he/she can write a letter for your job. Explain to them the health and phone issues... I would think a reasonable supervisor would be willing to hear you out at least.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Hey guys, first time posting on one of these threads for advice, and it's not really about me. Basically, I'm trying to get your opinions on a matter that I feel I'm too biased to look at it objectively. It's not as big a deal as some of the issues people have posted here, though. Sorry that it's bit of a rant, I hope that you'll see how biased I am and be able to show me that it's not as bad as I make out .

My girlfriend organised to live in a flat with two of her friends. They're all at uni.

Unfortunately, one of them (F1) failed an exam and as such is resitting a year as an exam-only student, and as such doesn't spend much time in the flat. In fact, she comes for a few days a week because she has a part-time job over here, and also uses it for when her boyfriend comes up (because her parents don't know about him).

The other one (F2) had an argument with her parents and now has to live at home (I'm not sure what this argument was about or what it involved, and don't want to speculate--for the record, though, her parents live in the same city). She uses the flat even less, maybe once every couple of weeks, mainly for when she's been out clubbing (because her parents don't know about that).

My girlfriend is in the smallest room, which is tiny (as in, she has to sit on her bed to use the desk, because there isn't room for a chair). F2 has the biggest room because (at least by her logic) she has the most stuff (which isn't true, actually; my girlfriend has more). To be fair, she is the sort of centre-of-attention person who absolutely must have the best of everything ever .

So, yeah, there's a bit of silliness with the only person who actually spends much time in the flat having the smallest room, but that's not really the issue.

The issue is that my girlfriend is paying all of the bills, and is attempting to get her flatmates to pay their share. The bills are:

Water bill (substantial one-time payment)

Internet (monthly fixed payment)

Electricity and gas (monthly payment for how mcuh has been used)

At first, it was F2 that said that she wasn't going to pay for bills, as she couldn't live there. At this point, F1 said that she was going to be in the flat most of the time, so my girlfriend suggested that F2 would pay a lesser ammount and that she and F1 would split the rest.

As it transpired F1 only spends a few days a week here, she's now turned around and said she's not going to pay full ammount either. She's announced that she's going to move out in December (contractually speaking, by the way, she has to find someone to replace her, which as far as I can see she's too lazy to actually go out and do, at least not until the actual last minute).

As such, she says, she's only paying for water for a quarter of the year, and she's paying a tiny share for the internet, gas and electricity because of the limited time she spends here.

Moreover, whenever my girlfriend actually asks her for the money she owes, she always puts it off ("Oh, I'll pay you tomorrow after work," and goes straight from work to the train station; "Erm, actually, I don't know if I have the money right now," when she's travelling down to London* to see her boyfriend every other week**).

Now, I understand that it's not fair on either of them that they should pay for bills in a house that they don't live in. It's a crappy situation.

BUT this leaves my girlfriend in an even crappier situation. She's budgeted to pay a third of all of the bills for the next twelve months. Now she has to pay almost three times as much than what she had planned.

It's especially onerous when it comes to the water bill, which obviously has to be paid for the flat to be, you know, actually livable. It's a set ammount and as such isn't dependant on how much time you spend in the flat or how much water you actually use.

The question I'm asking is, who's in the right here? I mean, my gut feeling is that although I'm sympathetic to F1 and F2, they should still be be paying a greater contribution to the bills that what they think is fair.

F1 doesn't want to move out because she wants somewhere to come back to at four in the morning when she's drunk off her head, and at the end of the day F2 has to accept some responsibility for failing here exams (twice in a row). It's not fair for my girlfriend to pay their share of the bills.

It's not like she even wants to live on her own; they're not doing her a favour by being away all the time.

Anyways, yeah, as I've already said, I'm obviously highly biased. I accept that it's an unusual situation and as such some leeway should be given to F1 and F2.

So, any thoughts? (Apart from telling me to calm down? )

I know it's not the end of the world, it's just not a situation I've came across before...

* For the record, we live as far away from London as it is possible to be without being in a different country.

** Not that I have anything against that; I think it's great that she's keeping in touch with him even though it's so far to go. I just would assume that paying your debts is a slightly higher priority when it comes to deciding what to spend your money on, especially considering the regularity of her trips and the ammount it costs her.

Re: Personal Woes and Advice 2

Fergo, here's my quick and dirty reading on the whole thing. By the way, I'm referring to your girlfriend as F3 here.

F3 is the only one spending much time in the house at all. As such, if they're all paying the same rent for rooms, it's very fair that she have the biggest room. After all, the other two don't really need sizable rooms.

As for the bills, F1 and F2 should absolutely be paying the water bill. Since it doesn't change based on how much is used there's no reason F1 and F2 shouldn't be responsible for it. They planned on paying it when they signed the lease, or at least should have. Same goes for Internet. Electricity is the only one with any kind of argument for F1 and F2 to not pay, since presumably they're not using the washer and dryer (if those exist) or charging their laptops (if they have them), or using the television (if it exists), etc. However, there are lots of things that would be consuming electricity anyways (like lights), and it's hard to say how much extra the other stuff would be adding on. So I still don't think it's unreasonable to split it evenly. Maybe go with a 40-30-30 split.

As for getting them to pay.... well that's where the landlord might need to come in. Unless it says somewhere on the lease that they don't have to pay utilities if they're not actively living there, they're still responsible. F3 has been very (too) nice as is. Let them get in trouble for it.