It’s more than a Ministry, it’s an Adventure!

Patricia King and the Witch Hunters

August 7, 2007

I checked my blog stats today and my hits on this subject have gone through the roof, so obviously what is going on with Patricia is a big deal to people.

The Glory School

This is evidently one of the things that just wigs people totally. I am in the process of listening to this right now. There are 16 hours of teaching that make up The Glory School. You can check it out at The Manna Reserve, a free online library. These teachings were audited by Dr. Alistair Petrie and were considered to be theologically sound.

The Introduction is important to this discussion. In it Patricia very clearly lays out her views on the supremacy of scripture and the need to judge every subjective experience by the written Word of God. She also shares problems she had with manifestations that occurred in the Toronto Outpouring and what the Lord showed her from scripture concerning those things.

Again, Back to Personal Experience

I received ministry from Patricia’s team at a conference. The gentleman who prayed for me and spoke over me was not on staff with Extreme Prophetic. He was one of their trained volunteers who make up their ministry team. Requirements to be on the ministry team is, among other things, completion of the Glory School and the Prophetic Bootcamp.

In a matter of a couple of minutes, this guy gave me every prophetic word that was ever spoken over me going back 25 years. He hit them all. Then he proceeded to confirm what I was currently hearing from the Lord. Totally accurate.

A Matter of Heart

There is a very well meaning but very misguided group in the body of Christ who believe that it is their God given mission in life to ensure that every single person in the Kingdom of God has correct doctrine. Their doctrine. The problem is that each of these groups has their own version of the Truth that was once for all delivered to the saints, and their Truth doesn’t totally match the Truth of the other witch hunters across town. I know. I used to be one.

John Arnott told a story years ago about the early days of the Toronto Outpouring that changed the way I look at this issue. He said that when the Holy Spirit began to move in the meetings there, he was concerned about some of the things he saw going on. He was deeply struggling with the issue of allowing the Holy Spirit to have complete freedom versus the need for order.

One night there was a young man doing laps around the church and was being rather disruptive. (He must have been a handful if he was disruptive in those meetings back then.) John was very disturbed by what he saw and felt he needed to bring some correction, but the Holy Spirit spoke to him and said, “Wait. Just watch.” So John did.

As this guy made his latest lap around the church, he missed the turn, slammed into the wall and knocked himself unconscious. The Holy Spirit spoke to John again and said, “When I’ve had enough, I’ll deal with it.”

There was a point in time where the doctrine police cut people’s tongues out, put a sack of gunpowder around their necks and burned them at the stake for the abominable heresy of baptism by total immersion. They buried women alive and inflicted all kinds of torture on people for believing in free will. Many of the doctrines Protestants are willing today to burn people for are things that were considered heresy.

Jesus said that the greatest commandments were these: To love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. The Holy Spirit was sent to lead us into all truth. If you love God, then the Holy Spirit will lead you into truth. He will teach you.

I know in my own life when I was the doctrine police, a lot of my doctrine was defective. My motives were rooted in spiritual pride and the need to be superior to others. The overwhelming need to be RIGHT. Even the doctrine that was right did me no good because of the wrongness of my heart. Read 1 Cor. 13. If you do not have love, you have nothing.

Again, I will watch how Patricia walks through this and how those who oppose her walk through it. With God, character wins out in the end. It always does.

Thank you! I appreciate your words of wisdom which demonstrates the heart of Jesus. I wonder what the church would be like if we spent more time loving Him and loving others and less time exercising the “gift” of correction.

You raise a good point. I have a very hard time with the “gift” of correction when it is attempted by people who have no real relationship with those they are “correcting”.

I accept correction from my pastor because we have a real relationship. He and his wife know more about me than just about anyone. They are true friends and people that I have the utmost respect for. When they say something to me, I take it very seriously.

Thanks for your story about the guy who made laps around the church. I doubt if he truly meant harm but never the less he was being disruptive. The story showed me that God has a sense of humor even when things look so out of control.

Some people just have to run smack dab into a wall and knock themselves out before they think about how what they are doing effects other people.

As Believers we don’t always have to respond to other peoples’ unharness behavior and nonsense. There are times we must trust God, be paitent and wait on Him and he will end it in a way that we cannot. Perhaps being rebuke in public would have cause more damage than good.

I am amazed at how God caused circumstances to force the party is forced to think twice about doing what he did again!!

May God help us all not to knock ourselves out cold against the wall before we think how we are affecting people. I was truly encouraged and laughed straight for 10 minutes, not really at the guy, but because nothing is too hard for God and in the end there really is nothing to d do but laugh at how silly we look before we finally learned something.

First, Apostle Paul was a doctrine policeman. Secondly I didn’t know the Holy Spirit needed John Arnott’s permission to have freedom in a service. Third the young man WAS disruptive. Fourth God doesn’t belittle His children by smashing them into a wall. As far as love, it’s only a feeling if it is not coupled to the Truth. If Toronto allows people like Gwen Shaw to speak at their church (amoung others) then it is only a feeling. People need to get back to the word of God (yes, the Bible) if they want the revelation of God. In Christ’s Love, ||R. Johnson

First, Paul was a doctrine policeman.Second, I didn’t know the Holy Spirit needed Arnotts permission to have freedom in a service. Third the young man WAS disruptive! Fourth, God doesn’t belittle his children by smashing them into a wall. As far as love, it is only a feeling if it is not coupled to the truth. If Toronto allows people like Gwen Shaw to speak at their church (among others) it is only a feeling. We need to get back to the Word(yes,the bible) to understand who God is. In Christ.s Love. R. Johnson

God could have opened up the ground and swallowed him like he did Korah, but God is merciful. The point is that God took care of the situation in such a way that the young man got a message without being confronted by leadership, which can be a traumatic experience in the best of situations. The people I know that have been part of the Toronto Blessing (John Arnott, Melinda Fish, Patricia King and Bill Johnson) have the highest respect for the word of God and will straight up tell you that everything you experience has to be judged against the unchanging standard of the word of God.

Paul was not the doctrine police. Doctrine police take a hardline stand on issues that are debatable, such as free will. Paul even said that on the subject of food sacrificed to idols that a man’s conscience had to be his guide, but just be sure not to make a weaker brother stumble.

I agree with your comments, and I feel that Patricia King is wonderful annointed servant of God, do you know who are the leaders who started the issue with her, the one’s who sent out the original letter questioning her monistry?

Wow! Thanks so much for your wisdom on this matter. I too was once a witch hunter. I too, was so full of pride, thinking that God only moved in one way, my way. God is such a gentleman, even then when I was struggling to see what He took a very long patient time to teach me, allowed me the freedom to submit to Him as I was willing to trust Him. I believe opening ourselves to the Holy Spirit’s teachings requires a whole lot of trust on our part…one that is always faithfully rewarded.

Thank you for our wise comments. It was well balanced. We do have ot be careful of running after the latest spiritual fad and being ruled by our emotions without wise judgement but at the same time not to say its of the devil and burn the saints at the stake. After all the doctrine policce of His day wanted to kill our Lord and said he was of the devil.
The Lord at times does let us run into a wall, and to rebuke must be done carefully for the very fragile can be destroyed. I myself reading the doctrine police types, tough I too wonder about some of the manifestations, felt like hiding my light under a barrel, pulling my wings tightly in and crying because I cannot use my gifts or grow in them or explore the spiritual realms of my Lord’s Kingdom, because its all of the devil and we must be content to like a sober intellectual earth bound experience of our Christian existance. No wonder people are turning to the false gods. God is calling us to grow and to fly with Him and we are not allowed to. Yes with great power comes great responsibility. It is in truth not power, gold dust, and being like unto God that we are to seek after, but a deep intimate relationship with God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost and through that union to let Him flow through us to bring His Healing Love and Abundant Life to all of Creation. Jesus didn’t say that by right doctrine, powerful miracles, or the proper denomination that the world would know we are sent by Him but that we love one another as He loves us. As you said the greatest commandments are to love God and your neighbor. Jesus said this is the FOUNDATION of all the law and the prophets. In all the arguments I read this many times pops into my head, what’s love got to do with it. That is many times the problem. People just see it as a silly emotion not the foundation and morter of all that is. Its that part that is the characteristic that needs to be shown forth in our daily life in acts grand and miniscule. The gifts are given without repentence, its the fruits that we are ultimately known by.
May our Lord richly bless you all.

A friend of mine kept hearing “Alistair Petrie” is a false prophet, over and over again. She couldn’t figure out why she kept hearing that. Finally she asked her husband if he had heard of anyone by that name. Sure enough, he knew about him.

Also, Patricia King, along with Todd Bentley, and a host of others, accept false angels. Namely emma. It is very important to stay away from them, and their teachings. And, I would not allow them to pray for you.

I keep reading your info on various sites that Emma is demonic. Based on what? Your opinion? Who says your wifes dreams are accurate or even from God. This is all speculation and my bible says not to judge. If you have issues with others in ministry maybe pray for them. God is the only one who should do any correcting, if any needs to be done. Not any man. Spreading rumors about anyone is treading on dangerous ground.

The devil would never use anyone in any way that would give God the Glory. Many people come to the Lord and to salvation through the ministries you slander. If the devil was leading these ministries this would not be the case. Use your head.

I should make one more point about people like Patricia King, Todd Bentley, and the general circle of friends they have. They can be summed up in the “Elijah List”. The Elijah list people really believe it is okay to sell anointing oil as if it’s got some sort of spiritual power. They think it’s okay to take money for prophecy. Being a prophet for profit goes against the very fibers of God’s nature. Freely you have received, FREELY GIVE.

Peter was very angry with Simon the sorcerer, when he offered money to receive power to lay hands on people so that they could receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It just showed that he never really got saved. Gotta wonder about people that believe in stuff like that, don’t you?

Just out of curiosity, how do you know such angels are false? I have blogged about Swift. I have heard of Gordon who has done some amazing things for the kids in Mozambique. There are a pair of angels who hang around me whom I call Bubba and Bo (you would have to be from the South to get that one). They have been instrumental in some amazing provision in my life. I have heard of Emma, who seems to be hanging around in Idaho handing out gems, if memory serves.

I agree. Yes, we shall be known by the fruit that is seen…for what is invisable will be made visable…of what we believe. Good fruit or bad fruit. I pray that we love more…and believe the best…knowing that His love covers a multitude of our imperfections…as we move forward in faith believing in Him and the moving of the Holy Spirit…and give grace to the humble…always looking for the mercy of Our Lord. Amen.

I have been thinking a lot about this subject. Those who make it their life mission to find fault with ministries because a theological difference. Of course, I have been to Toronto lots of times. Many of the people who badmouth these ministries will never go to the meetings to see for themselves… they just mock from a distance. Many of the mockers who have actually visited in order to denounce it have changed their minds after their visit!
I know this is an old post…. but wanted to say blessings!
HW

There is a GREAT danger in visiting a place to find out of it’s of God. That opens the door to deception. We NEED revelation from God FIRST, before we seek after these people that have “strange fire”, or if we even think they might.

I have had discernment on people, then met them in person and been like “Oh, well, maybe I was wrong”. I found out later that I am in fact not wrong. We need to put emphasis on being led of the Spirit, not “a spirit”. Some of these same people that I had discernment on, I have accepted as brother/sisters in Christ. Just because you have discernment on someone, and what their true character is, does not mean they are not God’s.

With that said, many believe that the bible says “think not, challenge not, you wouldn’t want to be a heretic hunter”. But it doesn’t say that. It says to TRY EVERY SPIRIT whether it is of God or not. People like Patricia King, Todd Bentley, etc, etc, do NOT advocate testing of the spirits. If they did, they would not be receiving devils as if they are God’s angels, and the like.

That is the very reason we NEED the guidance of the Holy Spirit in these last days. The bible says EXPLICITLY that great signs and wonders will come that are SOOOOO deceptive that they will deceive the very elect, IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE. Also keep in mind that many people that oppose these people are Spirit filled believers who believe in the things of the Spirit, hear from God on a regular basis, and God tells them that some of these people are receiving demons as angels of light. Much like myself.

You obviously have never listened to Patricia’s teaching. Patricia demands scriptural proof for EVERY encounter and experience that she has. She is one of the most diligent students of the Word that I have ever met and she can give you chapter and verse of why she believes that she does to be scriptural.

You may disagree with her interpretation of scripture. I personally think Calvinism is a doctrine of demons sent to destroy the church, but I know lots of people who embrace that theological system. That is their choice based on their study of the word of God and it is up to the Holy Spirit to correct them.

You have a point absolutely, but you are taking my statement to an extreme degree. You would be wrong to imply that I’m advocating running around visiting strange places just for some strange experience. I am a most cautious person. But I don’t buy into rumors, and I don’t denounce something immediately just because it might be strange sounding unless it obviously denounces Christ. I’m pretty sure that people thought the church in Acts was a bit off the wall.

I am sorry if you felt I implied you aren’t spirit filled. I could care less if you agree with me on every doctrinal point I hold as truth. If you share the basic tenants of my faith, you are a brother in Christ whether I agree with you on every point or not.

I absolutely believe we should test the spirits. My point couldn’t be farther away from what you are saying… it was simply this.

I don’t like to see the rumor and gossip mill working to destroy people who are trying to follow Christ with all their hearts. When we hear a rumor, we shouldn’t blindly accept it as fact. What I often hear from people is “did you hear what so-and-so said about THIS ministry?” Who cares what so-and-so says. If I’m inclined to visit or listen or read to find out for myself, I would rather do that than accept someone’s opinion as fact.

You say that some ministries aren’t teaching the testing of spirits… that would be tragic! I am not a member of these two ministries that you feel compelled to name so I cannot provide any evidence either way. And to debate this without knowing them and knowing their teachings and their relationship with Jesus would be rather ridiculous and unloving.

I’m pretty sure there is no perfect person or ministry out there. Nobody who ‘gets it perfect’ all the time.

First off, I do not believe in heresy hunter mentality. I for one do not want to be accusing a true saint of God of something I shouldn’t. I want to make that clear.

Nor did I mean to imply you were seeking after strange signs and wonders. I was just making a point that it’s not a good idea to do so. Most of the people I have seen seeking after the ministries of Todd Bentley, Patricia King, Bill Johnson, etc, have extremely bad fruit. i.e. They revel in sin, and think they are saved. Cause Jesus blood covers all their sin you know.

I also did not think that you were saying I was not spirit filled. I just wanted to make clear that I was, so that there isn’t any assumptions about my background.

Also, I have not read any “rumours” about Patricia. And I agree with you, I don’t care if people have a bad opinion of Patricia or anyone else. What I see though, from many of these people, is bad fruit. i.e. strange signs and wonders, which God has shown me are not from Him.

The bible promises us deception in the last days. Jesus told us to be VERY careful, and that lying signs and wonders would be so numerous that even the elect would be deceived, IF that were possible.

Patricia helped raise up Todd Benltey. Todd Bentley is known to receive demons as angels of light. Patricia King is known to believe in these strange signs and wonders such as gems, oil, and the like, which God has shown many people are not of Him. In many cases, they are trickeries to get ministerial support. i.e. Money is the root of all evil. People have been caught red handed distributing gems during a conference.

However, two people, before even getting to the strange stuff that Stacey is doing, had the Lord show them that it was deception. Patricia cannot see this because she is like many other people in the same circle of friends. They have no deception, and they just accept whatever comes there way as of being from God. In fact, they go searching for scriptures to confirm it.

At best, Patricia is a baby Christian for not having any discernment at all. At worst, she is a heretic still dabbling in occultic practices. Not to mention that she’s as self-righteous as all get out (my dad and I met her in person). It’s really great how my dad’s smoking exposes religious hypocrites. I always find it amusing.

and I LOVE that story from John Arnott…it is true HE will take care of things…we “humans” are so prideful we think we need to handle it all…OH BROTHER have we got a LOT to learn!

one of your posters said GOD does not belittle HIS children …ok right…yes HE does if they won’t listen to HIM and HIS corrections…people take so much away from HIM …HE is GOD for crying out loud!

on the Emma angel thing I was totally against this when it came out as I was speaking in tongues…I was set to prove them all wrong …funny how GOD uses HIS word to speak truth…there are female looking angels in the bible…some say they are demonic that are mentioned…ok they may be but remember a 1/3 of the Angels fell soooo in saying that don’t you think that some that did not fall look like some that did? I am just saying…so like I was against this Emma until I kept seeing this angel in the spirit walking around wearing a gown like Katherine Khuman (sp?) wore and I asked the intercessor leader what it was I was seeing …they asked me to describe what I saw…when I did they told me that is what everyone is saying Emma looks like…in fact she was laughing at me (the leader) because I was so against this Emma being of GOD and I was one that was seeing her…

The point is we really need to press into GOD and keep asking HIM is this YOU or not.

People are forgetting HOLY SPIRIT…and some think they know HIM and really don’t they are only hearing SELF…

We are at a point when the church is going to be divided from those that will accept HIM and what HE does from those that will not….remember the 10 virgins?

Tecora, it is vital that you repent of receiving emma as an angel of God. I had no ulterior motive when I found out that emma was satan. In fact, I was very intrigued by Todd Bentley’s testimony of emma, and had no reason to disbelieve it.

The reason that emma was laughing at you is because he saw that you were about to accept him as an angel of the Lord, when in fact he’s a devil.

If you truly love people you tell them the gospel truth. If you truly love people you’re not self-righteous and condemning. If you truly love God you will question your beliefs, seek informed counsel and “prove all things.”

Your logic is faulty. You seem to be saying no one can question anything that happens in the church, because you (and others) have been wrong in the past. “Beloved,do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 John 1:4
“For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.” Matt. 24:24.
God’s word tells us clearly that there will be false prophets. The backslidden church doesn’t need more manifestations, it needs to humbly seek forgiveness for its idolatry and love of riches and ease.
So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.” Revelation 3:16-18
We are the richest nation in history, and have not given glory to God. Look at the filth we’ve exported to the world via movies, TV and the internet, our rabid consumption through huge houses and SUV’s, and as a country we give less than 1 percent to world missions. May God be merciful to us.

Well, it’s the traditional church that brought us to this pass. It is the intellectual Christianity of the traditional American church that allowed all this to take place.

Maybe we need to return to the Gospel that Paul preached in Corinth, the one where he said I did not come to you with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power.

I don’t want more of what has brought us to this place of sin. I want nothing to do with the powerless intellectualism of much of the Church. I want scriptural Christianity, the kind that shook the known world with it’s power.

So I am a newbie, really don’t know anything about Patricia King and her ministry. Don’t want to judge but definitely want to discern. I feel that it is vital to understand the word of God and measure what people are saying or doing by it. If we aren’t doing that we are leaving the doors wide open for any measure of deceptions.
I have given prophetic words and know how important it is for me to always way every word before God before I speak it.
So why am I writing.
Well for the first time I went to a meeting where Patricia was speaking. The church is a place that I usually feel and know the presence of God is strong, easy to start worshiping, etc. But when I went in this time I felt grieved. Now I know that feelings can come from many things, I prayed asking God about personal sin, praying over the people, began spiritual warfare for them, for the musicians who were singing at the time, for the leadership, for discernment, etc. My peace was finally restored to me when I walked out the door?????
Do you know anything about the Ekstasis dancing? I found an article and wondered if this may have had something to do with it????
Just seeking the truth here.
I still don’t know that it was Patricia; it may have been the worship leader or something else entirely. What troubles me is that usually God breaks through, when I pray, I usually get some revelation or insight – this time I heard nothing from God except the grieving of my spirit.

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It's not just a Ministry, it's an Adventure!

Xtreme Encounters

I have had some search engine hits looking for our ministry/revival center which we are calling Xtreme Encounters, because we have been having extreme encounters with the Lord. You can find our ministry website at xtremeencounters.com.