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On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:21:49 +0100, "john royce"
<> wrote:
>I access hotmail mail accounts via outlook express. Recently MicroSoft
>changed the configurations of this set up to a POP3 setting.
>
>Since the changeover all the different folders I had for the various hotmail
>accounts have disappeared from Outlook Express.
>
>These folders still exist when I view the hotmail accounts via a web page.
>
>So is there a way i can transfer these folders and their contents to the
>pop3 hotmail accounts in outlook express from where they still exist on the
>web page hotmail?
>
>Thanks for any advice.
>
Forward the contents to you pOP. If that won't work forward them to
your mom.

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On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:21:49 +0100, john royce wrote:
> I access hotmail mail accounts via outlook express. Recently MicroSoft
> changed the configurations of this set up to a POP3 setting.
>
> Since the changeover all the different folders I had for the various hotmail
> accounts have disappeared from Outlook Express.
>
> These folders still exist when I view the hotmail accounts via a web page.
>
> So is there a way i can transfer these folders and their contents to the
> pop3 hotmail accounts in outlook express from where they still exist on the
> web page hotmail?
>
> Thanks for any advice.

No. POP3 is not a synchronizing protocol, it can only download email, and
only the contents of the Inbox. One way to regain synchronizing access to
Hotmail is to install Windows Live Mail, which can still access a Hotmail
account using HTTPMail access.

If you choose this method, the installer will actually offer to install a
full suite of local applications. If all you want is the email client, make
sure that "Windows Live Mail" is the only selection you make, when offered.

Also, when you set up Windows Live Mail, it will offer to sign in to an
existing Windows Live account. If you let it, WLMail will set up your
contacts locally, and synchronize to the contact list on the server. WLMail
always synchronizes the account you used for the Windows Live sing in, and
so that will change, if you have multiple Windows Live IDs, and change which
one is used for the sign in. You can ignore the sign in process, but then
your contact list is just local, and not synchronized online.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

"john royce" <> wrote in
news:h8qsa3$rl8$-september.org:
> I access hotmail mail accounts via outlook express.
> Recently MicroSoft changed the configurations of this set
> up to a POP3 setting.
>
> Since the changeover all the different folders I had for
> the various hotmail accounts have disappeared from Outlook
> Express.
>
> These folders still exist when I view the hotmail accounts
> via a web page.
>
> So is there a way i can transfer these folders and their
> contents to the pop3 hotmail accounts in outlook express
> from where they still exist on the web page hotmail?
>
> Thanks for any advice.

I don't know how /useful/ this will be, I am sure most of it
will be boring...

I don't have the answer to your exact question, but I will say
first of all that anyone who keeps ALL their email on ANY
internet site rather than on their OWN COMPUTER is asking for
it. Anything from a lightning strike or an earthquake or
"financial problems" or insane management (as in Hotmail's case)
can make you lose ALL your email forever.

Anyway, I /JUST FOUND OUT/ (on a tech site, looking for an
answer to another problem) that apparently as of Feb. 09 Hotmail
became accessible via POP/SMTP protocols, therefore accessible
by e-mail programs as small as 200KB, and FAST. (Well, I haven't
tried, I dumped Hotmail when they claimed it would only work
with XP and Vista "from now on" - but apparently it still works
with 98SE for some people, I don't care, gmail had the POP/SMTP
access first and I am positive Hotmail has added this
functionality ONLY because they were losing customers to gmail.
Both are evil, but at least Google admits to most of what it
does. For a REAL email address which only important people get I
pay the exorbitant sum of $15 a year and have total privacy,
safety and no spam).

Anyway, I would just get ANOTHER email program and not use OE
[there are thousands of places where you can read WHY OE - and
IE for that matter, but what's the point of even bringing it up,
sigh - is NOT a good program to be using] and use the web
Hotmail interface to set it up for POP/SMTP access and then
never use OE again.

There are MANY advantages to NOT using webmail, vastly reduced
(in some cases eliminated) susceptibility to malware being one
of them...

FWIW... I use nPOP. Have it set to only DL the first 100 lines
of a message - a big difference from some stupid webmail site
opening the whole thing AND the virus-ridden attachment without
even asking... etc.

--
Lots of theoretical butchers are alleged and other bloody eyes
are suitable, but will Pam secure that?

john royce wrote:
> I access hotmail mail accounts via outlook express. Recently MicroSoft
> changed the configurations of this set up to a POP3 setting.
>
> Since the changeover all the different folders I had for the various hotmail
> accounts have disappeared from Outlook Express.
>
> These folders still exist when I view the hotmail accounts via a web page.
>
> So is there a way i can transfer these folders and their contents to the
> pop3 hotmail accounts in outlook express from where they still exist on the
> web page hotmail?
>
> Thanks for any advice.

POP only understands the concept of a mailbox. That's it. It has no
clue about folders (and why IMAP was later developed). In the commands
for POP, there are none for navigating or selecting folders. Just the
one mailbox is all it knows about. When you use the webmail interface
to your e-mail account, the Inbox shows what is in the mailbox. So all
you get via POP is what you see via webmail in your Inbox.

IMAP lets you sync to folders between the client and server. Hotmail
never has had IMAP access. Microsoft indicated they may add it but
don't hold your breath. The only IMAP-like access to Hotmail is
Deltasync which replaced DAV. Outlook and Outlook Express only natively
understand the DAV protocol. An add-on for Outlook adds Deltasync
support. Outlook Express is a long-dead product so it will never be
updated to support Deltasync (unless some poor soul uses the badly
documented API to OE to make one). Outlook Express was replaced by
Windows Live Mail which does include Deltasync support.

So you either use POP to access the Inbox of your Hotmail account or you
use Outlook with its add-on, Windows Mail (in Vista), or Windows Live
Mail to use Deltasync to access the subscribed folders of your Hotmail
account.

On average, Microsoft has made 2 major changes per year to Hotmail since
buying that product back in 1997. Get used to a moving target as it
will probably continue.

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:39:35 +0000 (UTC), thanatoid wrote:
> I don't care, gmail had the POP/SMTP
> access first and I am positive Hotmail has added this
> functionality ONLY because they were losing customers to gmail.

Actually, Hotmail had POP3/SMTP access before Gmail got started. Anybody who
signed up with Hotmail prior to its purchase by Microsoft would have had
it,and MS, apparently, allowed those Hotmail users with POP3/SMTP access to
be "grandfathered" as long as they kept their accounts active.

And, no, Hotmail did not included POP3/SMTP access to keep customers from
fleeing to Gmail. Hotmail tried to turn off WebDAV access to Hotmail
accounts about a year ago, and met much resistance from users of MS Outlook
Express, and other MS clients, which allowed Hotmail access using the WebDAV
protocol. So Hotmail delayed turning off WebDAV until they could create an
alternative access for their loyal users stuck on clients which did not have
the newer DeltaSync protocol, such as Windows Live Mail. They tested, then
rolled out, there POP3/SMTP access, then started notifying users of MS
Outlook, MS Outlook Express, and Entourage that the target date for turning
off WebDAV access forever was Sept. 1, 2009; and that those users would have
to either use POP3/SMTP, or upgrade to a newer MS application, for continued
client access to Hotmail.

Gmail had nothing to do with it, only the protocol changes.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

NormanM <> wrote in
news::
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:39:35 +0000 (UTC), thanatoid wrote:
>
>> I don't care, gmail had the POP/SMTP
>> access first and I am positive Hotmail has added this
>> functionality ONLY because they were losing customers to
>> gmail.
>
> Actually, Hotmail had POP3/SMTP access before Gmail got
> started. Anybody who signed up with Hotmail prior to its
> purchase by Microsoft would have had it

/I/ am usually accused of being stuck in the past, since until a
year ago I used a 12-year old 166MHz computer for everything
except music file conversion, for which (and for which ONLY) I
bought a 2GHz P4.

But I wonder how many people - even in /this/ group - knew
Hotmail was NOT an original Microsoft product, kinda like DOS...
> and MS, apparently
> allowed those Hotmail users with POP3/SMTP access to be
> "grandfathered" as long as they kept their accounts active.

Well, the whole thing with not being to delete a Hotmail
accounts Vs. keeping them active etc. is just another example of
brilliant MS logic...
> And, no, Hotmail did not included POP3/SMTP access to keep
> customers from fleeing to Gmail. Hotmail tried to turn off
> WebDAV access to Hotmail accounts about a year ago,

I never heard of it, so looked it up:

Web-based Distributed Authoring and Versioning, or WebDAV, is a
set of extensions to the Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) that
allows users to edit and manage files collaboratively on remote
World Wide Web servers.

(Wikipedia)

Yes, sounds EXACTLY like what POP and SMTP do.
> and met
> much resistance from users of MS Outlook Express, and other
> MS clients, which allowed Hotmail access using the WebDAV
> protocol. So Hotmail delayed turning off WebDAV until they
> could create an alternative access for their loyal users
> stuck on clients which did not have the newer DeltaSync
> protocol, such as Windows Live Mail. They tested, then
> rolled out, there POP3/SMTP access, then started notifying
> users of MS Outlook, MS Outlook Express, and Entourage that
> the target date for turning off WebDAV access forever was
> Sept. 1, 2009; and that those users would have to either
> use POP3/SMTP, or upgrade to a newer MS application, for
> continued client access to Hotmail.

Well, your knowledge /is/ impressive.
> Gmail had nothing to do with it, only the protocol changes.

Maybe. No one knows for sure. FWIW, I don't know ANYONE who uses
Hotmail who even knows what POP and SMTP are.

--
Lots of theoretical butchers are alleged and other bloody eyes
are suitable, but will Pam secure that?

<snip>
>> And, no, Hotmail did not included POP3/SMTP access to keep
>> customers from fleeing to Gmail. Hotmail tried to turn off
>> WebDAV access to Hotmail accounts about a year ago,
> I never heard of it, so looked it up:
>
> Web-based Distributed Authoring and Versioning, or WebDAV, is a
> set of extensions to the Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) that
> allows users to edit and manage files collaboratively on remote
> World Wide Web servers.
>
> (Wikipedia)
>
> Yes, sounds EXACTLY like what POP and SMTP do.

No. Not even close to exactly. Actually, the closest thing to HTTPMail plus
WebDAV is: IMAP.
>> and met much resistance from users of MS Outlook Express, and
>> other MS clients, which allowed Hotmail access using the WebDAV
>> protocol. So Hotmail delayed turning off WebDAV until they
>> could create an alternative access for their loyal users
>> stuck on clients which did not have the newer DeltaSync
>> protocol, such as Windows Live Mail. They tested, then
>> rolled out, there POP3/SMTP access, then started notifying
>> users of MS Outlook, MS Outlook Express, and Entourage that
>> the target date for turning off WebDAV access forever was
>> Sept. 1, 2009; and that those users would have to either
>> use POP3/SMTP, or upgrade to a newer MS application, for
>> continued client access to Hotmail.
> Well, your knowledge /is/ impressive.

I just pay attention to the MS propaganda!
>> Gmail had nothing to do with it, only the protocol changes.
> Maybe. No one knows for sure. FWIW, I don't know ANYONE who uses
> Hotmail who even knows what POP and SMTP are.

Microsoft has changed the identity of Hotmail; from MSN (MicroSoft Networks)
to Windows Live. Actually, Windows Live is an umbrella for a suite of
related services, and associated clients, allowing users to synchronize all
kinds of data with online servers: Calendar, Photos, Documents, email, and
more. WebDAV was, apparently, not extensible, and MS created the more
extensible DeltaSynch protocol, just for the Windows Live services. Since it
doesn't make sense to maintain to very similar protocols, MS started talking
turning off WebDAV.

While the change is not really directly related to keeping users from
jumping over to Gmail, it is somewhat related to competing with Google on a
larger front: "Cloud Computing"; the synchronization of data using local
clients and remote servers.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

<SNIP>
> While the change is not really directly related to keeping
> users from jumping over to Gmail, it is somewhat related to
> competing with Google on a larger front: "Cloud Computing";
> the synchronization of data using local clients and remote
> servers.

You are very well-informed, there are many things I have just
chosen to ignore completely. When someone mentions cloud
computing, I just switch out, for example. ;-)

Thanks for the info in any case.

--
Lots of theoretical butchers are alleged and other bloody eyes
are suitable, but will Pam secure that?

"thanatoid" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Xns9C8C7C38F355Fthanexit@188.40.43.245...
> NormanM <> wrote in
> news::
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> While the change is not really directly related to keeping
>> users from jumping over to Gmail, it is somewhat related to
>> competing with Google on a larger front: "Cloud Computing";
>> the synchronization of data using local clients and remote
>> servers.
>
> You are very well-informed, there are many things I have just
> chosen to ignore completely. When someone mentions cloud
> computing, I just switch out, for example. ;-)
>
> Thanks for the info in any case.
>
>
>
> --
> Lots of theoretical butchers are alleged and other bloody eyes
> are suitable, but will Pam secure that?

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:04:09 +0200, "jean-paul luntadila"
<@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>"thanatoid" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>news:Xns9C8C7C38F355Fthanexit@188.40.43.245...
>> NormanM <> wrote in
>> news::
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>>> While the change is not really directly related to keeping
>>> users from jumping over to Gmail, it is somewhat related to
>>> competing with Google on a larger front: "Cloud Computing";
>>> the synchronization of data using local clients and remote
>>> servers.
>>
>> You are very well-informed, there are many things I have just
>> chosen to ignore completely. When someone mentions cloud
>> computing, I just switch out, for example. ;-)
>>
>> Thanks for the info in any case.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lots of theoretical butchers are alleged and other bloody eyes
>> are suitable, but will Pam secure that?

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