Hey, does anyone know how long it takes to go through the NJLAP process if your NJ bar application has been flagged by C&F? What have people's experiences been like? I am sitting for the February 2018 exam and I anticipate problems.

I went through this process in 2009, and I know a number of people there fairly well. It all depends what you are going for. I got referred because I went to rehab in law school for alcohol (Been sober nine years). If being referred for substance problems, then preempt everything by getting all your records, and be prepared to show how you have rehabilitated yourself. I was referred in November of 2009 after I passed the bar, and admitted in April of 2010. You have to stay on top of them, because they have a ton of people coming through.

If you are being referred for something else, lack of candor, criminal record, etc., you need to make sure you have your story straight, and amend anything that is wrong. I actually forget when I applied to law school that I didn't disclose two stupid college arrests (public urination and public intoxication), and I amended my application. I never got called out on it. If you can fix things before they see it, you will be in a much better spot. If you fight the process tooth and nail, be prepared for a long wait. Just do what they ask, even if you think it is dumb.

Extremely. But once you are in the club you are in the club. Getting in, however, with a documented history of mental illness and a demonstrated history of it adversely affecting your conduct (iirc your academic discipline was the result of an "episode") its much harder. It's likely not an auto no but you are going to have to put on a dog and pony show to establish you are diligently receiving treatment.

The firing may indicate poor judgment, but you can spin it fairly easily into something simple. Just say you reviewed the situation and thought it was ok, but in hindsight realize you should have checked with your boss about any potential conflict and you now learned your lesson to always double-check and more thoroughly investigate potential conflicts

2 speeding tickets are nothing (unless you weee going 180 in a school zone, or something daft like that). Not even going to waste my time addressing this

Your problem is the disciplinary issue and the mental health thing. The disciplinary issue is probably easier to spin, but I can't advise you on mental health. Personally I probably would ding your application if it came across my desk. Maybe something about proper diagnosis and taking medication and regular therapy

I agree. The legal profession is extremely stressful and from the perspective of a character and fitness committee, if law school pushed you over the edge, the actual practice of law might shove you off the cliff headfirst. Just show continued treatment and get strong references.

If I recall, you will be clerking, which often doesn't require admission. So you have all the time in the world.

I'd suggest getting your medical paperwork in order showing that you follow your treatment plan and since then have not had any major issues. You need to show how your mental illness no longer affects your day-to-day and professional life. A letter from your doctor would also help.

The rest is no big deal IMHO but I'm not a C&F attorney. And i didn't have any issue getting through NJ C&F. So this is all gut feeling.

I won't have insurance/benefits for the first 60 days of my job, so I have no choice but to be treated by her. Also, my hectic work schedule will prevent me from seeing anyone else (full time clerkship + bar study). Most psychiatrists/therapists don't have convenient weekend/evening hours.

What's wrong with her treating me? She's an MD. She is full credentialed. There is no law against treating your family members.

There is no law, but many Medical Associations bar it except for emergency and minor issues. We had a doctor in my State recently have his license suspended for prescribing medication to family members. His defense was that it was an emergency, the board did not buy it. Much like bar associations, each State has different rules, but I'd want to make sure I looked up my mother's licensing rules before, unnecessarily, putting her license at risk.

Also didn't you previous post that your mom's diagnosis was drastically different than your old treating psychiatrist?

You'll be pleasantly surprised by the number of therapists that have hours outside the typical 8:30-4:30.

Do you honestly not believe that the Character and Fitness people won't raise an eyebrow when they see that the person signing off on your mental fitness is your mother? Even if they don't just straight up ding you, it's going to warrant further investigation. Why make it harder on yourself?

Obamacare care or pay out of pocket. Or ask your mom to have one of her colleagues do you a favor. The board isn't going to buy the busy schedule thing. Remember, they see applicants present continued treatment all the time. When the guy before you also worked and studied for the bar and managed to be treated it's going to be a bad look.

I am sorry to say this but in their eyes you are not a special snowflake with unique circumstances.

Also your mother's testimony or sworn statements on your behalf can easily be construed as impartial and self serving. That opens you up to rejection and her to a litany of b.s. she likely doesn't need.

I'm telling you, this is just temporary, until my insurance kicks in. It's an HR policy that insurance only starts after the first 60 days. I can't afford to pay out of pocket. Do you want me to get credit problems due to unpaid medical bills too?

Now I'm confused. I thought you said you were only using your mom because you couldn't afford to see anyone else. But now you're saying that there is a doctor prescribing medications for you. You mom just doesn't agree with the diagnosis so she is taking matters into her own hands.

Does doctor number 1 know about this? This is frighteningly dangerous. One of the main reasons many Medical associations bar Doctors treating family members is because they cannot be objective and emotion can cloud their judgment.

I'll just state it again, you're making C&F much more difficult for yourself than you should.

After reviewing the information you posted and given my own experience with C&F, my earnest advice is that you are unlikely to be approved and should stop investing further time and energy in attempting to obtain your license to practice. You sound like a competent and resourceful person, there are more promising alternate paths for your future. I hope you take my opinion under advisement.

Yes, people with criminal convictions pass C&F all the time, but in the grand scheme of things crimes that don't involve falsehood are not considered as serious as substantial mental health problems.

After hearing about the extent of your mental health issues, it seems evident to me that they rise to the level where your capacity to effectively represent your clients should be considered severely impaired. I don't meant that as a judgement or criticism of you but merely as an honest assessment of your situation.

Moreover, putting aside whether C&F would approve you, there are reasons for declining to practice law that transcend the C&F process.

You would be doing a disservice to your potential clients, colleagues, and employers by trying to practice law without first resolving the mental illness that you continue to struggle with. This isn't meant as an insult or as an attempt to undermine your goals, it is simply an observation based on your own representations.

I'm doing the best I can to resolve the issues. I see a therapist, two psychiatrists, etc. I take my medications as prescribed. People with MUCH worse become attorneys. I'm just depressed because I am single, 15 pounds overweight, 29 years old, etc.

You should stop comparing yourself to other people and other cases. Unlike, for example, bankruptcies, DUI's, and shoplifting convictions, state bars examine mental health problems as individual and unique. One person suffering from paranoid schizophrenia may pass with adequate proof that he or she is successfully treating their illness while someone suffering from depression or anxiety may be denied for failure to establish that they are adequately treating their issues.

I am adequately treating my mental health. Despite the issues I faced, I graduated with a JD with a clerkship lined up. Most JDs don't get their first job until after bar results. The NJ bar website even said that seeking treatment alone is not a basis for denial and that it encourages people to do so. .

Thanks but no thanks. Your opinion is baseless. People with much worse issues routinely pass C&F. A professional ethics attorney with decades of experience representing bar applicants thinks otherwise re: my chances. I have a lot to offer the legal community.

Yes, and after having been exposed to a wide variety of C&F experiences I honestly feel that yours is one of the few cases that will probably be and should be denied. I reiterate, this isn't meant as an insult, criticism, or judgment, it is merely an honest assessment of the serious of the issues you claim to still be struggling with.

The overwhelming majority of attorneys struggle with mental health problems. This is nothing new. People with much more serious issues (felony convictions, plagiarism,bankruptcies, alcoholism/drug abuse, domestic violence, multiple DUIs, etc.) pass C&F. You honesty think beating women or endangering lives by driving drunk is less blameworthy than having a psychiatric illness? It would be foolish to quit now that I have a JD, a clerkship, etc. The legal profession would be much better off with me in it. I'm talented, passionate and have a lot to offer any employer.

"You honesty think beating women or endangering lives by driving drunk is less blameworthy than having a psychiatric illness?"

It's not an issue of moral culpability. Someone who had too much too drink once and got a DUI is probably better suited to practice law than someone who regularly abuses alcohol but has never been arrested. Similarly, someone who may have been arrested on a domestic violence charge may demonstrate that it was a single isolated incident while someone who has never been arrested but who demonstrates a long history of anger management problems may be less suited to practice law.

The idea that it is too late to turn back has been the ruin of many attorneys. You've been admitted to law school, so it's too late to drop out. You've graduated, so it's too late not to take the bar. You've gotten your license, so you must practice. I have met many attorneys who don't realize until several years of practice that they are better suited to another profession which makes them happier and which they find more fulfilling.

You possess various attributes which might be beneficial in the practice of law but those same attributes may provide an even greater net benefit to society in another capacity unrelated to law. You should not dismiss alternative avenues for you to exercise your abilities.

Look, I have a JD. I have a clerkship lined up that I start next week. I have callback interviews various places for positions starting in fall 2018. It would be a waste to turn my back on the law and work some sh*tty retail job, which is probably all I could do with a sociology/anthropology/Spanish BA. I spent many years and a lot of money towards this goal. It's what I'm passionate about. I am very well suited to the legal profession. I've enjoyed and performed well on the job (even while dealing with depression) and there's no reason why I can't continue.

I'm going to offer some words or advice. Do not qualify any statements with, "even while dealing with depression." This is especially true with employers and C&F committees.

You aren't incorrect that this profession is filled with alcoholics and people suffering from anxiety and depression. However the expectation, outside anonymous forums, is to keep it yourself and not make anyone in the profession aware.

You asked and were denied accommodations, which everyone on here told you that you would be, so now you're already going to be on their watch list. You've admitted that, at least at the time of applying to take the bar, that you believe your mental condition has a serious effect on your ability to perform.

If you go in there are start qualifying statements by your mental condition, without being asked, you'll likely be in for a world of hurt.

Clients do not care what personal issues you are dealing with. They do care, and the board of Prof responsibility cares, if they believe your person stuff is affecting your performance. When you're hired, you're hired to perform at your best. If they find out there is something getting in the way of you performing at your best, i.e. depression, they'll have an issue.

Tldr: outside of anonymous forums do not mention that you are suffering from depression, especially as a way to brag about how great you are.

As for your initial question (which, I might add, you've asked in general countless times previously), here's the simple answer:

There is no simple answer.

You're almost certainly going to have a delay. How long? It's impossible to say. Maybe the board asks for additional information that you can quickly get to them and they push you through after a couple of weeks. Maybe you find yourself jumping through their hoops for 6+ months.

Stop worrying about how long you might be delayed and start focusing on what you can do to alleviate the board's concerns.

Stop getting treatment from your mother. Immediately. It's disturbing that you don't seem to recognize how bad this is going to look to the board. The fact that she's a licensed professional is irrelevant. She's your mother, she's biased. Period.

The board will want independent corroboration of your mental well-being from a professional they trust. This will likely put you through LAP for a period of 6 months to a year. LAP means you cannot drink, even if alcoholism was never your issue. You will be randomly tested for substances. Every meeting, while disguised as group therapy, is absolutely not therapy. You are being evaluated by someone who will decide your future. It is in your best interest to appear sincere, and to share on some of your issues, with a focus on how you're developing coping strategies and resilience. Do not attack LAP, the therapist, the bar, or anyone else. Share your struggles (nothing extreme), and how you are working to become a better person.

Actually, those are not your issues. A lot of people are dissatisfied with themselves, and question themselves, yet go on to live normal, healthy lives. Your issues revolve around how you choose to address and deal with these perceived shortcomings. Your rehabilitation will necessarily involve learning healthy ways to deal with anxiety, fear, self-doubt, and low self-esteem. I can tell you without any hesitation that medication alone is not enough, and the board will not accept this solution.

I can also represent to you that your involvement of your mother as your therapist will be perceived as a symptom of your disease. When you begin your LAP group, ask your group therapist for a referral to an individual therapist he or she trusts.

Until you learn that your problem is you, and the way you react to your own feelings, emotions, and perceptions, you will not be able to demonstrate growth convincingly.

What matters is that you have a record of psychological issues, are seeing two different mental health professionals - who are providing different diagnoses and different prescriptions (one of which is your mom), and are stubbornly stuck on insisting that you're right and the whole world is wrong.

first, stop seeing your mom professionally. She should not be treating you. Period. No excuses.
second, listen to what other people are saying, take their words to heart, understand why they're saying it, and figure out what it is they want to hear/see.

If you can't do those two things, stop asking for advice and stop trying to be successful, as I guarantee the advice will fall on deaf ears and you will fail at life. seriously, grow up.

When you meet with the character and fitness people, please set up a camera and tell them this. I would love to see their reaction. Do you actually know any attorneys?

Well over half this profession is slightly to very overweight, single, and unhappy practicing law.

It is a sedentary career. I am in court multiple times a week for hearings and I still spend the majority of my time sitting. The profession revolves around reading and writting. It is also notorious for long hours and stress. So you do not have time to work out, it's easier to grab fast food than cook, and stress causes many people to put on weight.

As for being single. The long hours and stress cause a lot of attorneys to be single especially due to a divorce.

As for unaccomplished. That is even funnier. Very few attorneys ever feel accomplished. Practicing law becomes rote after awhile and it's hard to feel accomplished when you're looking at a case load of recovering unpaid child support, client's 10th DLS, or another fender bender discovery request.

So you're struggling with what a large percentage of attorneys consider baseline. How do you suppose the C&F people will think you will react when the realities of practice really sink in? Internships and clinics aren't real practice. You haven't had to deal with mulitiple fires needing to be dealt with immediately arising right before you were supposed to be leaving for a weeklong vacation.

1) Get your sh*t sorted out before taking the bar exam. Solve whatever underlying problem is causing depression or other issues. What you listed - single, 15 lbs overweight, and no career - is not insurmountable. I'm more than 15 lbs overweight and I simply don't give a f*ck.

2) I'm no psychotherapist, but stop seeing your mom. Period. She is not a neutral advisor in any way.

3) Are you sure you want to practice law? Law as a career sucks. It's stressful, it's dealing with crap people, it's dealing with crap clients all day. Yes, it can be immensely rewarding but you must be able to handle any stress that comes your way. And right now, it doesn't look like you can.

My job is on the line and I need this done as quickly and efficiently as possible. I definitely can't wait for NJLAP and I figured you get what you pay for. I am trying to avoid a hearing. I'm sick to my stomach with all of this. I thought the worst was over.

Yeah. They know it's highly unlikely I'll be sworn in on time but they aren't anticipating that I will get a hearing. My doctor received my file today and my appointment is next week. Hoping all goes smoothly.