Time to look at the preview show one more time. Or several more times for that matter, I know your MO, people. (The video has well over 5 million views on YouTube already, while the first trailer is nearing on 18 million.) Our Oz the Unsullied will provide his own valuable perspective soon, but before that I will step on the soapbox myself and roar a few thoughts at you. Contains 0% spoilers and 100% excitement.

Okay, I know, it is easy to be analytical and play it cool once some time has passed and you have become somewhat desensitised. For the sake of fairness, then, here is my gut reaction I left in the comments right after I saw Ice and Fire: A Foreshadowing for the first time on a European Monday morning, some five hours after it aired.

Holy crap, this will be more epic than ever, an awesome season is coming, based on this (and I say that as a seasoned veteran of WiC.net and someone who knows the plot). Just wow! A really effective ending with Drogon, but the shot that really got to me in its epic scale was Meereen! They did it justice. This is just getting better and better.

I still stand by those words. The consensus seems to be that the production managed to add yet another layer of polish and epic shine this year, on top of an already majestic third season. I did not think this was possible, and yet that is what the preview suggests.

Let us talk about the promotion strategy for this season, as I think HBO has actually done something different and new with this latest video. There were fewer smaller items this year, no posters or voice-only teasers, but the first trailer dropped reliably in January as expected, and the latest 15-minute preview was a real treat. What is new, then? For the first time, plot points of the new season were spoiled. No cagey commentaries on how things get bigger, better, more exciting, and more complex, but open talk about two events that have not yet been set up. The first one is Tyrion’s predicament, leaving viewers intrigued how he ended all chained up. The second one is the revelation that Daenerys is losing control of both her dragons and the political situation. These are both juicy dramatic crises for the characters to face, and I can say that bringing them up in a preview like that is no cheap teaser – they are plot points that will really deliver, and I am looking forward to them.

Why this different approach? My speculation is that the production wanted to try really hard to demonstrate that the shocker of a season ending from last year did not use up all the ammunition the show had in store, and far from it. I do not believe anyone would stop watching because of the Red Wedding (passionate protestations notwithstanding), yet just in case they offered some intrigues to look forward to for those that were most devastated by it. This was reinforced by including the lines from Maisie Williams where she says that the good guys are making a stand and coming back this season.

A lot of talk was dedicated to the pacing of the season as well. More precisely, to the fact that not everything is building up to one big finale this time around. Based on the events as we know them from the books, that is definitely the case. The best thing about it is that this does not mean spreading the content thin, but pretty much replicating the episode-nine effect a couple of times throughout the season with real badass moments and gamechangers. So many reasons why we are looking forward to April! And of course, as David Benioff put it, what other show has dragons?

I think they might be playing a bit of a clever game with the Unsullied. By teasing some stuff, after all the Sullied were like “haha, I’ve been trying not to tell you about the Red Wedding for years!” they are trying to get people to turn to their friends and ask “Why is Tyrion in chains? No, wait, don’t tell me!”

I think they realize the conversation around the show is a critical part of its success, and these teases are a good way to whet the appetite again. There are loads of things to still care about after Robb Stark is gone.

My own review of the preview, and also the bts production designer video, is I am blown away again. I really like that the show seems more confident in its own pace and delivery, and once again I think bringing Jaime back early was an excellent departure.

I still think that’s Robin. Someone said he was 12 on the fist season, and I think Isaac was also 12. Isaac and I are around the same age and for what I saw we’re around the height too, so I don’t doubt Sweetrobin is that tall.

I still think that’s Robin. Someone said he was 12 on the fist season, and I think Isaac was also 12. Isaac and I are around the same age and for what I saw we’re around the height too, so I don’t doubt Sweetrobin is that tall.

It could be him in the still with Littlefinger, and I think the hair does look like his (and the haircut and clothes look like something a boy may wear), but only if Littlefinger is crouching to be closer to his height.

Something that I saw in the trailer and the preview and saddened me was the constant image of the wildlings as some brutal and violent murderers, not like the “free folk” that want to escape of the WW of the books… (SPOILER BOOK 5) This makes me think if the casual viewers will really be twisting for Jon when he tries to save the remaining free folk.

I’m still on the fence about this. On the one hand Having Tywin’s last moments, Only Cat and UnCat all in the same episode, would make for an awesome episode, practically unparalleled in terms of huge moments. On the other hand, these are all such huge events that putting them all into the same episode could be overkill, and might lessen the impact of the scenes. Not to mention that it would rob episodes 3-7 of big moments. If you had Only Cat as the last scene of episode 6, Tywin’s death as the last scene of episode 8 (with Oberyn v Gregor as the final scene the previous ep), and UnCat as the last scene of the season, it would give each scene a greater impact, as well as increasing the quality of each individual episode. Then again, the one-two punch of Only Cat and UnCat in the closing moments of Episode 10 would be very thematically appropriate and powerful.

Yeah the advertising campaign seems a lot more candid this year. Last year there was lots of talk of it being bigger and better and although the trailers were action packed and awesome they didn’t give any plot away. This year they seems quite happy to let people know that Tyrion is on trial and Dany is in charge of some place.

I’m not sure what you mean. Just because we know their names and personalities and find them charismatic figures doesn’t mean they aren’t “brutal and violent murderers”. In the books and the show they are portrayed as people willing to do violent things even when not under the threat of the White Walkers. The reason the Gift is empty is because they would frequently come through and raid it, meaning they would steal women and valuables and kill people in the process. If they weren’t stopped at the Wall in ASOS, they would have killed Jon and the entire Night’s Watch and most likely would have plundered the entire North before anyone stopped them. I look at them the same way I look at tribes escaping the Huns and Mongols of European history

On another note, I’m curious how they’ll handle the final Tyrion scene (putting aside the whole Shae question). Assuming his showdown with Tywin is in the finale. Will they just end the his season as in the books, with him killing Tywin and still being in his chamber? Or will they have him climb down the steps and talk with Varys, as the books recounted in his first Dance chapter? They generally do like to setup or at least hint on future plot lines for characters.

Frankly if I was unsullied I would not have wanted to see this much about the season in the promotional material and I would have been annoyed. When I posted a link on Facebook to it I put a spoiler warning on it. Everyone is different about this kind of thing though.

My main beef though is with the dragon shadow over King’s Landing. They really have to work to manage expectations about the snails pace Dany’s story continues to take, unless they are seriously changing things. Implying that she’s going to be in Westeros by the end of the season and then having it turn out to be something else is the exact opposite of what they should be doing.

S4 does look great, and the show has been getting better and better, but a large reason for that is because the books got better and better all through ASOS. I believe the real challenge for HBO will be to make AFfC & ADwD compelling in TV format. I predict it will be a monumental task, since those books, while great, are much more subdued, subtle, and introductory since it is essentially a whole new act in the series.

I was worried about this too, but between episode 2 and 9, we’ll still have the taking of Meereen (4/5?), Arya at the Crossroads (8?), Bran’s fight outside the cave or meeting BR (7?) Oberyn dying (8?), and the wildcards of Yara/Theon/Ramsay, Rast and the White Walkers and maybe Balon dying. This season has 8 important deaths, so I’m not worried anymore

Seems like an odd complaint to me in that it strikes me that viewers of the show would perhaps have a more sympathetic conception of the Wildings than would a book reader at this stage.

Because you don’t Squire Daldridge’s last stand and Qorin had a very truncated role (and didn’t come off all that sympathetic in his brief appearance)- basically, the show doesn’t really (yet) have scenes of the Wildings slaughtering the Watch.

And the Wildings we come to know- Osha, Gilly, Ygrette, Tormund, and Mance- are all quite sympathetic (Craster is an obvious exception, but he’s as much tied to the Watch as he is to the Wildings).

And I’d think that if one were to be asked about the Wildings motivations, the show ways a lot more heavily on “escape the White Walkers” than “rape, pillage, and burn”.

Note- I don’t think the show set out to “whitewash” the Wildings (or that it necessarily does), just that based on which scenes were adapted into the show, more of those scenes show the Wildings in a favorable light than those which show them in an unfavorable one.

And don’t forget about Dany’s storyline (either the chaining of the dragons or Jorah to exile will happen before ep. 9), Sansa’s scape will be an event in itself (3?), Jon himself will face serious shit before ep. 9 (jailed as a traitor, will Ygritte die in ep. 9 or before?), Oathkeeper to Brienne moment will be great too, etc. Too bad we won’t see Cold Hands, apparently.

Pure speculation but I think it would make more sense to have the Battle of the Wall last multiple episodes as its more of a siege with waves of attackers rather than one blow-out LOTR type battle scene.

That would be amazing if they started at say, episode 5 and had a couple more episodes of the siege before the big 9, but that would need a budget double the previous seasons’, which was only a pitiful $50 million.

Actually, each season has had a bigger budget than the last. Season 2 reportedly had a 15% budget increase over Season 1, and Season 3 had a significant increase too. It wouldn’t surprise me if Season 4 cost 100 million or more, given the footage of Drogon, Mereen and the Royal Wedding they’ve shown so far.

There have certainly been some conflicting reports on the budgets. As no one can agree on whether the season 1 budget was 50 million or 60 million, it’s hard to tell what this 15% increase actually was. Certain elements can be re-used (like the big ship set from Blackwater), which makes up for the increasing number of props, costumes and locations to work with, and of course, actors demanding bigger paychecks. I’m hoping for at least 80 million for this season, seems about right.

I am reserving judgement on the shadow flying over king’s landing. Hoping it’s either for new opening credits (I doubt it, but it’s been suggested) or it’s when Daenerys loses track of one of her dragons for weeks at a time, so that this is how rumors of dragons starts spreading.

Episode 9 is directed by Neil Marshall who also did the “Blackwater” episode. I think it’s a safe bet that episode 9 will essentially be the same except the battle for The Wall instead, with that being the entirety of the episode.

I see a lot of commenters saying the battle at The Wall will be the “climax” at episode 9. This is 100% impossible — the wildlings arrive to attack hot on Jon’s heels after he returns with Ygritte’s arrow wound fresh in his leg. His arc after returning to Castle Black is:
– Leads Defense of Wall before Stannis’ Arrival
– “Tried” for treason by Janos Slynt and imprisioned
– Sent to negotiate with Mance Rayder
– Clears Name
– Elected Lord Commander
That election will be his “climax” in episode 9, if there’s room — remember, the past couple of seasons have focused deeply on one storyline.
But there really are so many “Big” moments coming this season. Below is a list of them off the top of my head, plus a rough estimate of which episodes they might come in if the stories are paced evenly. I’m sure I missed a few:

We know for a fact that episode 9 will be the battle at the Wall and that Jon’s arc this season is going to be very different from the book (with a whole new story added in the mid season- the mutineers at Craster’s Keep being felt with in episode 4). The election might even end up in season 5.

Hand of the Kingslayer, was unaware of the official announcement of the battle at the wall being episode 9, and the overall change in the arc at the wall. I stand corrected on that score. Slowing the candence is probably a good call — some of that interesting election-type stuff can be stretched into the book 4-5 doldrums. Anyway, thanks for the news.

HaltWhoGoesThere, I apologize. I also plead helplessness — when I go in to edit the post, it shows as being properly spoilered / blocked out. Any admin or moderator help in getting proper spoiler coverage would be appreciated.

Actually, each season has had a bigger budget than the last. Season 2 reportedly had a 15% budget increase over Season 1, and Season 3 had a significant increase too. It wouldn’t surprise me if Season 4 cost 100 million or more, given the footage of Drogon, Mereen and the Royal Wedding they’ve shown so far.

There’s NO WAY in hell season 4 budget is $100M. That would be the death of the show. All we know is season 2 had a 15% increase over season one (that was either 50-60 million), and someone said thats season 3 was again at $60M, although we’re not quite sure. I’d say season 4 is between 60-70, tops. If we were increasing 15% every season by season 8 we would be at $180M :S

A mere 10% increase every year means we’d double the budget (or the national debt or GDP or whatever) in just 7 years. That’s why infinite growth it’s a fantasy. So if we get a 5% increase we could consider ourselves lucky.

After rewatching the preview, I must say that Drogon isn’t QUITE as huge as he seems. His body is basically horse sized, a little less even. This is definitely in tune with early ADWD. I think they will probably hold on to this model for the duration of season 5 as well for Rhaegal and Viserion, until the Daznak Pit- where Drogon will return bigger than ever. I can’t wait for that! I think it should be an early season 6 moment, but it will probably end up in season 5.

I disagree. Season 1 was around 60 million, making Season 2 around 70 million. Season 3 was reportedly around the same price as Season 2, but it’s all very vague. However, looking at the increased production values and the number of big set pieces, I’m willing to bet that it was again an increase over the previous season.

How would 100 million budget be the death of the show? HBO is making tons of money off the show. They’ve snared tons of subscribers thanks to the show, and the dvd box sets seem to break HBO sales records each time they’re released. They can absolutely afford to spend an extra 20 million or 30 million, particularly on such a climactic season.

It’s true that huge prices have been the death of HBO shows in the past. Rome was cancelled because BBC dropped out of funding it, and it was already a hugely expensive show. But HBO have since said that cancelling it was a mistake, after they saw the dvd sales figures. They won’t make the same mistake with Game of Thrones, even if the budget becomes bloated

There’s also the fact that they’ve ended most of their dramas recently. Treme was ended last year, Boardwalk Empire, The Newsroom, True Blood will be gone this year. HBO are going to be relying on Game of Thrones more than ever now that many of their big established dramas are going.

I disagree. Season 1 was around 60 million, making Season 2 around 70 million. Season 3 was reportedly around the same price as Season 2, but it’s all very vague. However, looking at the increased production values and the number of big set pieces, I’m willing to bet that it was again an increase over the previous season.

How would 100 million budget be the death of the show? HBO is making tons of money off the show. They’ve snared tons of subscribers thanks to the show, and the dvd box sets seem to break HBO sales records each time they’re released. They can absolutely afford to spend an extra 20 million or 30 million, particularly on such a climactic season.

It’s true that huge prices have been the death of HBO shows in the past. Rome was cancelled because BBC dropped out of funding it, and it was already a hugely expensive show. But HBO have since said that cancelling it was a mistake, after they saw the dvd sales figures. They won’t make the same mistake with Game of Thrones, even if the budget becomes bloated

There’s also the fact that they’ve endedmost of their dramas recently. Treme was ended last year, Boardwalk Empire, The Newsroom, True Blood will be gone this year. HBO are going to be relying on Game of Thrones more than ever now that many of their big established dramas are going.

There’s no way Nicomo…I’d love it if it was so, but HBO executives think this way “why spend $100M when we can spend $70M?”

Plus when there was a 15% increase they told us. Over and over and over. So IF we started at 60 (some say 50), and went to 69 for the 2nd, AND stood there for the 3rd (some say we went back to 60), We could be sitting at 70, 75 tops…being something between 60-70 a much more realistic figure

Honestly… Who cares about the numbers?! They seem to have done a damned fine job with however much they’ve got. Just the fact that they have managed to do so much so beautifully tells me they won’t need another budget boost (at least when heading into season 5).

With the revenue from Thrones this year, the budget must explode next year.And the best thing is there will not be as much battles as previous seasons,
that means if we get an extra boost from HBO, it might be possible to film even more episodes. I guess they got the money for contract negotiations and loads of new castings. Technically, season 5 might be the best yet because of this.
And think about it, it would be almost like season 1 over again, just new sets and castings, and the details, directing and look! It will be glorious.

Season 5 will breathe new life into the show. Dorne, the Iron Islands, Braavos and Tyrion’s journey across Essos, Wyman Manderly… The world of Thrones will expand twofold that season. And it will be awesome.

Yeah, i always think Thrones big problem was authenticity.
Of course it is very authentic now, but it has been, well, compromised.
What George has written lately allows for greater writing and quality.
Hopefully it will turn into a world scale war drama.
They are going to seriously need double episodes.

It wasn’t awesome in the books, why would it be awesome in the show? If they have any sense The Iron Islands and Dorne will be cut. The show can’t handle the fragmentation that would come if there were 17 story lines as in the books, they have to make cuts, and Dorne and the II are the clear top choices.

Aaah, getting the hang of it now, posted this in the wrong thread I think (not used to joining in with a message board rather than just reading it). Anyway, apologies if old news – haven’t had time to read all the comments – or I’m (still) posting in totally the wrong place, and I hope none of this is a spoiler (don’t think so, but you never know), but just looked at IMDB and there are some names in the cast list for most of the episodes in series 4 (esp the 1st one). Mainly minor characters I think (not a book reader so don’t know everyone’s names, but do read spoilers) and they may answer some of the points raised before about what’s going to happen and whether or not it’s in the same order as the books. (And sorry about mega long 2nd sentence!)

Opinions differ, you know. I enjoyed it a lot. The boring parts were pointless chapters, within and without those arcs. Dany, Jon, Tyrion (to an extent) and certainly Brienne and Cersei all had too many chapters where nothing happened. None of that boredom will make it to the show, only the interesting bits will be held on and no doubt a few original stories will be created (a la “where are my dragons?!”). In terms of Dorne and the Iron Islands, they were probably the highlight of AFFC in my opinion- yes, Aeron is the most boring POV in existence but Vic and Asha are great POVs and so is Arianne. The only drawback to these storylines is how remote they are from the main characters, but both are starting to converge with the overarching plot as of the beginning of TWOW (which would be season 6) with Arianne meeting “Young Griff” and Victarion reaching Meereen. I think the Kingsmoot and the Myrcella plot are both really cool moments- they can be cut, definitely, but the show would lose some great scenes from it. The whole Dorne story, for instance, would translate really well into HBO television and I doubt they will cut it. All in all I think the show will adapt the overall story faithfully, but I don’t think what was boring in the books will be boring in the show. They will know when to stop, when to move on and which scenes and characters to cut entirely to allow for a good season.

Cutting Dorne/the Iron Islands entirely is not a move you could play lightly, that’s for sure. The only ones apart from GRRM who know just how significant they are are DD&B, and you can’t just think they will cut it because you think it’s boring. There is a huge chance that cutting these characters will fuck up the story going forward- things that may seem unimportant now could become very important as the series progresses.