Beast Mode wrote:"democracy is the worst form of government, besides all others that have been tried" - winston churchill

As for this quote, I disagree, socialism and fascism are worse, because less than 1% of the population control over 99% of the population. Democracy is the biggest deceiver, as 51% of the people can control 49% of the people, even on personal issues like taking recreational drugs. It is still better than the other two forms of government.

I think Churchill is actually agreeing with you here Migya. I think he's saying that democracy is a bad form of government, but other regimes (like socialism and facism) are in fact worse than democracy (hence the bit 'besides all others that have been tried'). I interpret that to mean that democracy is the pick of a very crappy bunch of government regime options. Which in a way is true. It's impossible to find a form of government that is totally equal or fair, as you pointed out quite well. They all have their pros and cons. But democracy does seem to have the highest approval rating, so to speak.

Beast Mode wrote:"democracy is the worst form of government, besides all others that have been tried" - winston churchill

As for this quote, I disagree, socialism and fascism are worse, because less than 1% of the population control over 99% of the population. Democracy is the biggest deceiver, as 51% of the people can control 49% of the people, even on personal issues like taking recreational drugs. It is still better than the other two forms of government.

I think Churchill is actually agreeing with you here Migya. I think he's saying that democracy is a bad form of government, but other regimes (like socialism and facism) are in fact worse than democracy (hence the bit 'besides all others that have been tried'). I interpret that to mean that democracy is the pick of a very crappy bunch of government regime options. Which in a way is true. It's impossible to find a form of government that is totally equal or fair, as you pointed out quite well. They all have their pros and cons. But democracy does seem to have the highest approval rating, so to speak.

Totally agree and I missed the Churchill quote, the end part at least.

I still like the way the U.S. constitution is set out, as far as I've seen it and interpret it. Everyone being free, as long as they don't violate anyone else (ofcourse the definition of violate can't be perverted), is the only way or the best at least, I think

bigstrads wrote:Very appropraite, as that is how I see the sad little f*ckers who consider America to the centre of the Universe and couldnt possibly consider another culture or state of being/mind outside their own.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even be commenting on this way of thinking if it wasn't true to some degree...

No, not the center on the universe, just the center of the world's media, politics and economy. By center, I suppose I mean the most important. If i'm wrong then simply provide another country that more impacts those areas of the world's culture... not trying to be arrogant or display my my much "unearned" patriotism - because I don't have the right, huh bigs?

bigstrads wrote:Wait, what am I saying? America doesnt have any culture.............at best its manufactured, stolen or plain false.

No culture? America has too much culture provided by such a diverse population. I can infer your meaning of "manufactured" (the stretch that it is) but exactly how is it stolen? Did we steal UK culture of which the majority of our decedents brought with them? How can you steal something that is yours? I don't understand how something like a culture could be false... Maybe based on something false? I haven't a hard time interperating your blind hate...

bigstrads wrote:(Sorry, in a bad/rant'ie type mood)

(Actually no...............Im not sorry..............cuz its true)

... no comment ...

Trash our politicians and public figures all you want, but don't tread on our people. You can't generalize the world's 3rd most populated country like this.

Edit: Sorry I didn't realize this thread was trying to get back on track, I just could read any more after page 2.

I realize that some of my fellow countrymen on here made some seemingly ignorant comments but your not the only one on here that can debate bigs.

Beast Mode wrote:"democracy is the worst form of government, besides all others that have been tried" - winston churchill

As for this quote, I disagree, socialism and fascism are worse, because less than 1% of the population control over 99% of the population. Democracy is the biggest deceiver, as 51% of the people can control 49% of the people, even on personal issues like taking recreational drugs. It is still better than the other two forms of government.

I think Churchill is actually agreeing with you here Migya. I think he's saying that democracy is a bad form of government, but other regimes (like socialism and facism) are in fact worse than democracy (hence the bit 'besides all others that have been tried'). I interpret that to mean that democracy is the pick of a very crappy bunch of government regime options. Which in a way is true. It's impossible to find a form of government that is totally equal or fair, as you pointed out quite well. They all have their pros and cons. But democracy does seem to have the highest approval rating, so to speak.

I totally agree with that, Mr. C. Democracy is a tease, but it ain't half as bad as any other way of government humanity has tried.

Biggest problem with democracy is that it can become a contest, in which governments make moves just to satisfy the needs of a few that will have an impact on the elections. It kinda becomes a popularity contest, and that's against the true spirit of democracy, but that's human nature, so it's not surprising that it happens. Doesn't have an easy fix, tho.

I'm a man that likes facts - I need facts - especially when it comes to someone despencing sheer ignorance without any to back it up. Oops! That was pretty much a redundant statement since ignorance implies the lack of knowledge which pretty much sums up every post by bigs in this thread.

bigstrads wrote:LOL!............man, the world doesnt need me and Quaz (although Quaz wasnt being as harsh as I was........so dont blame him) creating any kind of "new movement" in respect of the Anti-American sentiment................most of the world hates Ameirca and Americans already.

You do know this for a fact? Well though there is really no way of knowing for sure I imagine that the three most populated countries in the world (China, India and USA) don't hate us. China should love us because of our love affair with consumerism, we contribute over 60% to their foreign trade. India is in the same boat but instead of goods, outsourcing from American companies and government has improved their standard of living and overall economy. And well, why would we hate ourselves? You're talking well-over 2.5 billion people in these three countries - granted the majority of the world might hate us but it's a slim majority at best. Not to mention with the failing world economy being a direct result of our own - I doubt to many sensible people are rooting against us.

bigstrads wrote: I just find the "typical" American psyche rather hillarious and pathetic..........in as much as its totally obsessed with patting itself on the back, re-affirming how great they all are whilst flying in the face of the facts............and generally being a bullying, ignorant, pathetic as*hole about most aspects of life.

Tell me more professor about my own psyche or my neighbor's psyche, since you know so much more about it than we do. It's a good thing you came along to tell us how we thought... Us dumb Americans would have never been able to figure it out by ourselves. Give me a break! Just because you've seen some movies, american television and/or been over here a few times hardly gives you the right or the knowledge to comment on what really goes through an American's head. Blind, unwarranted hate, the same kind Hitler once had...

Most of the adjectives you used to describe us, more closely describes you and/or you thoughts/posts - ignorant, hilarious, AS*HOLE, etc...

bigstrads wrote: Like for instance, people moaning about the "Anti-American" thing...............well, isnt America the worst country in the world for dolling out hate and insults to other nations? (western society/supposed developed nations of course, ie: not the middle and far east)

Sheer speculation. Keep it up, you could be on FOX NEWS some day!

bigstrads wrote: Doesnt America parody itself, as you say, which is even more hillarious given that these losers see how pathetic they are being and yet they STILL carry on the behaviour.

Examples? Facts? Nope, didn't think so...

bigstrads wrote: Its the bully mentality, ie: we can do and say whatever we want to you...........but you cant say sh*t to us.

Referring to what exactly? War? True or False: The UK has been involved in virtually every American war... EVER. Great way to deflect blame but it's is yours to share.

bigstrads wrote: Ps: Anyway, Im just having a laugh..............feel free to dish out some slants against English people, they will more than likely be true (like the ones against America are in here), and hence Ill accept and laugh with you at my silly country.

I'd rather not, there is only room for one of us to bask in our ignorance.

bigstrads wrote: Thats the problem really and why people react to these kind of things............just get over yourself (not talking to anyone specific here) and accept that most countries are sh*t, all governments are lying muderers, every country has a checkered past...........and deal............f*ck, if you didnt do or werent directly responsible for any of the slants against your country, then why care?

Agree with you for the most part here, except you aren't just offending my country or government, your boorishly criticizing our population which includes myself.

bigstrads wrote: But yet again, there in lies the issue with Americans............because deep down they KNOW they dont have history or culture or heritage, they know they have absolutely NOTHING to be proud of as a patriot...........so they compensate for that, over do it and force it all in everyone elses faces.

No history? LOL! I dare you to find and provide proof of any other country accomplishing so much in a 230 year span as we have - for better or for worse. We have rose to power in the fraction of the time of any world power, past and present. We have contributed so much to this planet (again for better or worse) that it would be impossible to list everything. I will if you want, since I've requested that you back your statements up, but I think you already know what I'm talking about.

Do you need me to provide definitions of culture and heritage? Do you even know what you mean by implying that we haven't any? Do you think about what your about to type or do you just beat your keyboard with your face?

If we have nothing to be proud of than what do you? If you don't mind me asking..

JREED23 wrote:]You do know this for a fact? Well though there is really no way of knowing for sure I imagine that the three most populated countries in the world (China, India and USA) don't hate us. China should love us because of our love affair with consumerism, we contribute over 60% to their foreign trade. India is in the same boat but instead of goods, outsourcing from American companies and government has improved their standard of living and overall economy. And well, why would we hate ourselves? You're talking well-over 2.5 billion people in these three countries - granted the majority of the world might hate us but it's a slim majority at best. Not to mention with the failing world economy being a direct result of our own - I doubt to many sensible people are rooting against us.

Well, I dont really understand people who cant read something and realise that at no point were there any statements of "fact".............at no point was I saying that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD FEELS THIS WAY........FACT!!!

And hence, the entire post above is pointless, redundant, mute............and to be honest, typical American defensiveness............although actually, Ill change that to typical human defensiveness.

Although, you do admit that a "slim majority" might hate America................thats alright then huh? lol.

Moreover, I like how you included "USA" in the largest countries in the world who DONT HATE...................the USA.

JREED23 wrote:]Tell me more professor about my own psyche or my neighbor's psyche, since you know so much more about it than we do. It's a good thing you came along to tell us how we thought... Us dumb Americans would have never been able to figure it out by ourselves. Give me a break! Just because you've seen some movies, american television and/or been over here a few times hardly gives you the right or the knowledge to comment on what really goes through an American's head. Blind, unwarranted hate, the same kind Hitler once had...

Once again..............nowehere did I say that every American feels a certain way...........jesus, this is going to be boring rebuttal, simply because you dont have anything.

JREED23 wrote:Sheer speculation. Keep it up, you could be on FOX NEWS some day!

Hmmm. see the first couple of responses from me...........pointless and assumptive.............can you say hypocrite?

JREED23 wrote:I'd rather not, there is only room for one of us to bask in our ignorance.

Well, the post you responded to there was me saying that cant we all just acknowledge that EVERY country/government/general populus is largely a load of sh*t.............just accept that, have fun and realise that atleast you arent one of them.

Well, your response..............I guess you are one of them, because if you cant grasp the concept of that and react so defensive to all that I said.............then you must be.

..Im going to quote myself aswel in the nest one, because it illustrates perfectly my point about you either not reading or understanding a damned thing Im saying, because your little red white blue deflector shields are up =

JREED23 wrote:

bigstrads wrote: Thats the problem really and why people react to these kind of things............just get over yourself (not talking to anyone specific here) and accept that most countries are sh*t, all governments are lying muderers, every country has a checkered past...........and deal............f*ck, if you didnt do or werent directly responsible for any of the slants against your country, then why care?

Agree with you for the most part here, except you aren't just offending my country or government, your boorishly criticizing our population which includes myself.

See what I mean?.............at which point did I say that ALL Americans are those things..............and hang on, did I even mention a countries name in there? and wasnt a specifically referring directly to ALL countries, governments and people???

Get over yourself man, get off your high horse............seriously, read it again.............realise whats going on here before you start some sh*t like this.

JREED23 wrote:No history? LOL! I dare you to find and provide proof of any other country accomplishing so much in a 230 year span as we have - for better or for worse. We have rose to power in the fraction of the time of any world power, past and present. We have contributed so much to this planet (again for better or worse) that it would be impossible to list everything. I will if you want, since I've requested that you back your statements up, but I think you already know what I'm talking about.

Ohh wow.............this is the one Im looking forward too.

First...............

Ohh man, ok ok.............right, "proof of other countries accomplishing so much in 230 years" =

Do you even know anything about the history that you seem so blindly able to defend, ok, Ill list some things for you =

1 - The rape and pillaging of argrcultural resources that they murdered and destroyed the REAL Americans to assume and take over............in the process, murdering to the basic point of extinction, an entire/indigenous race of people.

Bravo.

2 - The systematic kidnapping of vast amounts of slaves from Africa and basically running the slave trade for the entire world.............so they could do all the hard work in building up your infrastructure and economy, whilst being paid nothing for it.

Bravo, real way to cut costs there and build an economy quick and efficiently.

3 - Didnt the Chinese build most of America's railroads, as almost slaves, being paid next to nothing for it............thus enabling travel, export, industry, all manner of economy boosting activities..............ALL FOR BASICALLY FREE!!! or at best, a hell of alot cheaper than all other countries who wanted the same.

Once again, bravo.

4 - Using up a continents worth of natural gases and oil in that short space of time (well, used it up a long time ago) and either using it to "build" the country or sell it all to other countries.............when basically it was all stumbled upon by chance/luck.........well, theft really huh.

Then when its all gone.........leading the fight to pluder and steal the rest of the oil from around the world, creating false wars as justification to go over and take what they want.

JREED23 wrote:Do you need me to provide definitions of culture and heritage? Do you even know what you mean by implying that we haven't any? Do you think about what your about to type or do you just beat your keyboard with your face?

If we have nothing to be proud of than what do you? If you don't mind me asking..

Hey, why not?..............Id love to see how you think that America meets those definitions............give it a shot.

What do I have to be proud of?.................well, once again, again...............again..............I didnt say I was proud of anything, and the point of my post was to talk to people WHO ARE proud of certain aspects of their country, when they dont really have any cause to be or dont really know what they are talking about.

And again, again..............I said that ALL countries are sh*t and every single country has a checkered past and things they cant be proud off.

The basic point being, I hate patriotism, its pathetic and only causes hatred and divide.............ohh and also, you need to learn to read...........or at best, learn how to look at something without instantly going on the defensive, and hence lead yourself to not really understand what is being said.............even when its right there infront of you in black and white (please see the quote up there of your post and mine............again)

Phew..............that was pointless wasnt it............cant wait till you reply and completely mis-understand, mis-read through your defensiveness and generally talk a load of crap.

And you should, Paris is a smelly sh*t hole! ............. Ive always loved San Francisco over.............ANYWHERE! feel more at home there than I do over here.

Look, 8th Ave, whoever is reading my comments in here and thinking "f*ck this as*shole!"................cool, Im just trying to make a very difficult point about the general feeling towards America and Americans from the perspective of the out-side world (something that TYPICALLY and HOW ALOT OF PEOPLE FEEL Americans have a hard time doing and even acknowledging that there even IS an outside world...........so, just to be clear, if people here dont think and act like that, then I am not talking too or addressing you, its "them"............understand?)

At no point have I said that any of it is a total opinion, that all Americans are a certain way or that all of the rest of the world feels a certain way.............Im just trying to illustrate how America is perceived by those who dispise/hate/are annoyed by it/think its a joke.

Ive always had a massive affinity with America, always felt like it was the place I should be, and it is the place I have spent most of my time in the world apart from own country..............so its not about my disgust and hatred for America.

My disgust and hatred is for individuals or collective groups of individuals who embody certain things that make me want to take a blunt object to their skulls..................it just so happens that alot of those people and groups exist or have existed in America..............but they exist all over the world, even in my sh*tty country, and hence I think of, treat and speak about them in the same way.

No blind hatred or or picking on America...............its just that that was the topic of dicsussion.

Someone bring up England and watch me rip the tits of this country and its ways..............cuz it will be the same, if not worse.

MurinuR wrote:No doubt, America is the most powerful country in the world and has provided and contributed lots of wonderful things to the planet.

Basketball for one.

I get the impression that American's in general think they are the centre of the universe...... calling yourselves world champs in your national comps sort of exemplifies the point.

Its a big planet.......and Yanks make up roughly 20%.

.

Acutally, with a North American population around 337mil and a world population around 6 707mil, the USA makes up roughly less than 5%

But still, a pretty good 5% at that, if you ask me. I, for one, would like to see America remain 'leader of the free world'. I know China is lurking as the next world super-power (and some might argue they already are), but I don't know if I completely trust them and their communist ways.

Of course, the Australian government loves them, establishing all sorts of trading partnerships. But like Australia matters - we make up less than 1% of world population

MurinuR wrote:No doubt, America is the most powerful country in the world and has provided and contributed lots of wonderful things to the planet.

Basketball for one.

I get the impression that American's in general think they are the centre of the universe...... calling yourselves world champs in your national comps sort of exemplifies the point.

Its a big planet.......and Yanks make up roughly 20%.

.

Acutally, with a North American population around 337mil and a world population around 6 707mil, the USA makes up roughly less than 5%

But still, a pretty good 5% at that, if you ask me. I, for one, would like to see America remain 'leader of the free world'. I know China is lurking as the next world super-power (and some might argue they already are), but I don't know if I completely trust them and their communist ways.

Of course, the Australian government loves them, establishing all sorts of trading partnerships. But like Australia matters - we make up less than 1% of world population