A Herald investigation has found of the $14.5 million Australians donated to the Bali bombing victims, only about $4 million has reached them so far. Do you agree with the way the Australian Red Cross has spent the money raised? Do charities have a duty to prove that the money you donate ends up in the right hands or should you just give and forget?

Please keep your responses brief and to the point.

This topic is now closed - this is what you said.

1.The appeal was represented as being for "the victims",the express implication being that it was for those directly traumatized by the incident.Final costs remain unascertained. 2.That the trust funds have not been fully distributed to victims,especially those in need of further treatment or rehabilitation, is inexcusable.As a charity,the Red Cross should fully account to both the victims and the public if confidence in it is to be maintained.

Sandy Todd

It's time NGO's, churches and other charities were held to the same standards of acountability as public companies. As money is donated in good faith it should be accounted for in the same spirit.

Alfred W Croucher

I can't believe that some people on this forum have the hide to call the victims greedy. Not only have these people lost limbs and agility but also their quality of life in some cases, and even jobs. You can't put a price on losing an arm or a leg, and I don't think $10 grand is much compensation. Compare the compensation of that chap who got millions after becoming paraplegic from diving into bondi beach? Ease up on the victims please, they are VICTIMS, not the victors.

FM

The ultimate result of this is that charities will continue to struggle to raise funds for really worthy causes like this one simply because of: 1. mistrust 2. far too many 'worthy' causes and 3. there's less free money going around these days.

The signal is clear: accountability, focus. If people dip into their pockets expecting to see someone or some group benefit explicitly and this doesn't happen, the red cross should be unsurprised to see their income dry up.

Mark

the red cross is one of the biges rip off group out it will take credit for things it did not do when I found out it was selling the blood people gave at blood banks that was it for me

k martin

I find it hugely amusing that most of the people screaming about the admin costs are also screaming about accountability to show where very cent has gone. NGOs that receive federal assistance have to go through a lengthy funding submission process AND account for the money they have received - They also have to provide statistics on the people who have received the benefit of the funding. All this costs money and contributes to the administration costs that you are complaining about. You cannot have accountability without it costing money and although I have no idea what the 400k is for, I would bet at least a portion of it went in accounting for what they received, documenting it, etc. How much money individually did the people complaining on this list give - If it was a few bucks, imagine all 100s of thousands or even millions of donations that have to be accounted for to get to 14 million.

The comments on this site are highly depressing - NGOs receive a fraction of our taxes compared to defence (and then the NGOs are the ones who fix up the mess we leave behind in places like Iraq)

So many mean spirited people around - pray that you don't end up on hard times yourself - with the spirit of generosity being shown here today there will be no-one left to help you if you are faced with a disaster yourself

Fair Go Please

To all that demand that charities show to them personally their financial figures in case they spend too much on administration. Wouldn't this mean spending more than they already do on accountants, printing more financial reports etc. A lot of administration money is already spent on meeting accounting standards, state and federal governments regulatory demands, bank fees, the power bill (charities don't get their electricity for free! or phones, or mail, etc).

Now it seems some people want charities to spend more on administration to prove they are spending less on administration or they won't donate. You can?t have it both ways

They've probably never donated anyway

j Barnes

Its seems that this debate is inpired by a bunch of greedy Australian Bali "victims" who are out to get as much as possible from generous donors as possible.

Most of the surviving victims of this terrible event were balinese. Thousands and thousands of poor people who have lost their meagre livelihood. The programs that the Red Cross wants to implement in Bali, health Care and Ambulances are exactly the type of programs the Balinese need to help overcome the hardship this event has caused. Congratulations to to Red Cross for looking outside the square and making a real contribution to the rehabilitation of Bali.

WJG

Does not surprise me. I sometimes wonder why there are still many starving people in the globe after billions has been spent trying to help them around the World. It just never ends. I wish I was a billionaire... I'd go to these nations personally and set-up jobs, farms, food halls, hospitals, schools, etc for them!

No More Hunger!

Australian money for australian victims

We already give a crap load to indonesia in aid, so they cna look after their own people and their own mess.

Why is it always the western nations that have to folk out to these lesser countries, and its our fault, and we have to take responsibility.

Given by Australians, for Australians. NOBODY ELSE.

They hate our guts, but will take our money. WHAT JOKERS!

ALL CHARITIES, NO MATTER WHAT THE CAUSE SHOULD HAVE A LEGAL OBLIGATION TO REVEAL HOW THE MONEY WAS SPENT AND WHERE IT WENT, IDEALLY TO THE 'CAUSE'

BARBARA JOHNSTON

One would hope that these responses would be forwarded to the Australian Red Cross as an indication of the feelings of potential donators.

It would appear that many charities can not be assumed to be turthful in their appeals.

Colin

Great idea! Lets bag out charities so no-one donates. I'm sure our charitable Federal Govt. will pick up the slack.

andrew

I now refuse to give to charity (except in very rare circumstances and for Australians only) due to the continual exposure of rip offs by some so-called charities.

Many claim my money is going to help others but they cannot show me that. I am also aware of huge financial packages for the executives of charities (those on incentive payments), and of many where the 'administration costs' are over 50% of donated monies - some even up to 90%.

Overseas charities are the worst offenders, with a major portion of monies going to officials in bribes and other payoffs.

Charities should be obligated to provide evidence of where their money goes to earn their charitable status. Those that don't will receive no money from me.

And I encourage everyone to only donate to those that can PROVE where the money is going, and in what percentage of donations.

Most are scams or rip offs!

The money was donated specifically for the people in the Bali tradegy and their families. It should not be spent funding seemingly unrelated programs. On the other hand, if all the money was given to the people then how much should each recieved? Should they all get the same amount (around $180,000 per family)? Oh, it's all so confusing!!!

Ana

to le tan hue- what a bunch of bullshit!!!because some muslim fanatics blew up a nightclub it is now our responsibility to help????? im sorry but that logic just does not wash- plus the issue is not about people donating its whats done with the funds afterwards- we have helped but Non Goverment organisations (with no accountability who recive millions each year from our federal goverment- via OUR taxes) are not passing on those funds...

greg

If you cannot trust the Red Cross to be scrupulously honest and competent on every occasion then it is a sad day. Too many things across the board are going wrong with the Red Cross. The Red Cross wheels are falling off. Perhaps it is time for a major re assesment of who and what you are. I feel badly let down as will other Australians. Not good enough Red Cross.

it is certainly hard to take a view point on this issue. on one hand we see what brilliant work the red cross and other prominent charities do for people in crisis. i'd bet my mother in law (i wish i could donate her sometimes!!!!) that if some of the hardcore critics within this forum required assistance they would the first to accept the assistance of the likes of the red cross. im sorry but you cant have your cake and eat it. on the other hand i saw on the news the other night that of the all the money donated to the bali appeal, $400K was for admin expences???? you have gotta be kinding. what admin expences? lets see where this $400k went to. accountability is the way charities can remain transparent in the eyes of the people that give to them.

eg

There were Balinese victims of the bombings too. Or are only the Australian victims worthy of our donations?

Me

Can the Red Cross explain the $400,000 fund administrative cost? Outrageous. I sent them money but not again.Clive

Clive Ronald McLellan

I never donated money to the red cross only Blood that I knew they could not do anything else with but put it to use.

Vanessa

I really don't mind my donation going to another charity than the one I intended it for, providing the intended charity hasn't been left short. But I do expect my donations to contribute to a good cause, which does not include lining execs pockets.I'm certainly not going to take out any greivances on the volunteer door-knockers, for their intentions are good. Wish I could say the same for the ambush style backpacker collectors.I do think it's important for any charity organisation to provide complete disclosure to ensure that they don't abuse their trust.

Rob

This is frightening. Although the American Red Cross were widely criticised for distributing funds slowly after September 11th and their CEO resigned because of the criticism, they were not accused of misung the funds and NEVER accused of selling blood donations to anyone. That is just an irresponsible rumour. And World Vision guarrantee 70 cents in the dollar gets thorugh, and are prevented by law from using the money to prothletyse (sp?). Damaging charities with lies and vicious slander like this is a low and cowardly act.

If in doubt, give to the Smith Family, who support their administrative costs through their on business and use 100% of donated money for charity.Or don't give at all, if you really can't, but I can't understand the motivation in stopping other people's generosity with outrageous, unproven claims that the smallest amount of research disprove entirely.

Penelope Smith

What is the federal government doing to get the money to the Bali victims more quickly - the Red Cross claims that they are waiting on the Federal Health Department to provide the necessary prosthesis to victims, then they will step in to pay for things the Federal Government hasn't covered.

Another question - some of these people must have had travel insurance - are their claims being paid out?

I too am fed up of institutionalised begging. It's not legal to beg in the streets yet you can ring (at home), fax, post, email and approach people in shopping centres begging for money. I give to my chosen personal charities and am sick of being made feel guilty for not donating to telemarketers cause of the week.

Sarah Mulligan

I don't agree with the way Red Cross operates and that's why I never donate to their causes. Too much media management and not enough action and accountability.

Pat McCahey

I think that the Balinese victims of the bombing, whether they be phyisical victims or financial ones, deserve more money then the (comparitively) wealthy Australians.

I would support a TB clinic or a hospital in Bali then an operation for an Australian who would get the best medical care in the world anyway, whether I gave maney to the Red Cross or not.

Fiona

It is not the first time I have heard of this. Remember in the USA Red Cross did the same thing with millions collected for the families of the 9/11 disasters. They also had an enquiry into the non allocation of the funds that was not seen by the victims families. Now surprise surprise the same has happened in Australia. No this is not the first time and it will not be the last. I have not and I will not donate money to the Red Cross. EVER!

The Act of Donation Has Become a Joke

Just last week we read how the Bali Widows were now destitute with no funding and kids to support after losing their husbands in the blast. These victims deserve something to help them and their children in a society with no social security. There people are victims who will need help.

Karl

Exactly the same as in the US after 911. The Red Cross is way out of touch and lying thru their teeth to boot. I donated for Bali victims, not for Darwin hospital, however worthy that place may be.

Maybe the Red cross would like to explain whether they have the "American Red Cross" disease where they SOLD blood donations after 911 to drug companies. I'm not suggesting (yet) that the Aust Red Cross is corrupt, just that they cannot continue to hide, dissemble and obscure their demonstrable inefficiency much longer.

The next Red cross caller at my door best be really thick skinned.

Peter Kelly

Who will guard the guards while the guards are guarding?

Jack Africa

World vision is the worst one of the all. They use pictures of starving african children and rake in millions of which only a small portion if any gets to the ones in need.

Charities Suck

Stop your whinging.

Australians weren't the only casualties in the Bali Bombings. It was because Australians were there that so many Balinese died.

You have a responsibility to help them now.

The Red Cross has always done a brilliant job and continues to do so.

Bloody whingers - what do you want for nothing anyway. Do you think you are so hard done by? have a look around you, you are the lucky ones.

Le Tan Hue

You can't have it both ways - If some money is not put away for future problems then there can be no immediate assistance in the event of something like the Bali Bombing - What do you want to happen - the red cross to show up to each new disaster and say - sorry we can't help right now - we have to wait until the money comes in for this specific appeal before we can lift a finger????

Someone(s) have obviously dropped the ball on this appeal but its not fair to denigrate the work of the red cross because of this - They had volunteers in Baghdad while the bombing was going on attempting to assist with keeping hospitals open, provision of clean water etc etc. Many of you probably missed the interview with Roland Hugenin (sp?) from the Red Cross on ABC who was extremely distressed as the health chaos was so bad that corpses were being left on the street and dogs were eating them.

They continue to quietly work both in Australia and round the world.

No organisation is perfect and they obviously have some work to do but don't slam the entire body for one stuff up - If they showed up to help you in the aftermath of a disaster would you be asking them where the money was coming from - I doubt it - And I bet you wouldn't be saying 'Well if there is a chance that this money came from the Bali Appeal - please go away and don't help'

Fair go please

I find it really worrying that people are using this as forum to attack charities and to attack the Red Cross in particular, a charity with a long and distinguished history of providing relief to people in the most dire of circumstances. "Most" charities do not rip people off and if you give to a charity, I think it is your responsibility to speak to them first about exactly how they plan to spend your money. For example, I give money to World Vision having first determined that they plan to spend the money on food, not bibles.

I agree that this doesn't look good for the Red Cross, but I think we first need to ask what else the money was spent on. I doubt it was spent on buying European sports cars for Red Cross employees.

I have one comments to make about the people who say that they prefer to give food directly to the homeless: like people who tell you they would rather have their money go to Australian families when asked to contribute to overseas disaster relief funds, I wonder if these people really do anything. I've heard lots of reasons for not giving to charity and it usually boils down to not wanting to part with the money that you could use to buy yourself a packet of cigarettes, a cup of coffee or new CD.

Penelope Smith

My money was given to the victims, both in Aust and Bali. I expected it to be divided amongst them according to the level of suffering. The Red Cross will not see anymore of my money to waste.

Kathy

I can smell a certain Mr. Jodee Rich, Brad Keeling, Rodney Adler...

Thieves!

It is a terrible shame that such a respected body as the Red Cross has destroyed the esteem and trust that has been placed on it.The millions collected were given by people who sincerely wanted to help the Bali victims, that was what the money was intended for and should have been used for.Who will ever trust the Red Cross or ever give donations to them again

H Scott

I am really sorry for all the loss that was suffered by all concerned. But I get the impression that it is a money grab, "I lost a loved one, give me money".To tell you the truth it makes me sick, that such an incident as this just ends up as "how much money will I get".

Just cynical now

Big surprise! Most charaties are a front for laundering tax free money. Thats why there is so many of them. Every day its something different, daffodill day, cancer week, purple tie day, spotted shirt day etc. Bullshit! Its a wonder that the Bali victims have recieved a dime let alone $4m. The rest has gone in "administration fees".

Greed

I chose to donate to the Red Cross based on their assertion that the money would go to both Australian and Balinese victims of the Bali bombings. I was conned. I was not asked to donate money to be put aside in case of future disasters. Had I known that would be the case I would have held onto the money until the inevitable appeals for any such disasters. At the very least, the Australian Red Cross is guilty of misleading advertising and deceiving the public into donating money for a purpose other than the one stated. Their management should be fired and the government should insist that the funds are distributed according to the original statement. I find the whole matter galling and disgusting and am very disheartened that the victims who caused us all to donate have received little or nothing. Never, never, never again will I donate to the Red Cross and unfortunately for other charities, I?ll be less inclined to trust them as a result of the Red Cross? deception.

S.A.M.

Who is watching these charities to ensure they deliver what they promise when they take our money. These funds should be taken back from the Redcross and given to a charity that will deliver them immediately to people who need assistance!

Matt Foster

Charities are a complete ripoff. Most of the money raised goes into new equipment for them and not for the people who actually need it.

I prefer to go out and buy tinned food myself and then give it to homeless people in the street. At least that way you know you are making a difference instead of giving it to blood sucking charities.

The Word

Who at Australian Red Cross is responsible for the abysmal Bali "allocation" of funds.Their website gives no ready clues to who are the CEOo/Directors. Perhaps its some of our business leaders who have been lax in HIH and Onetel type of failures. Whoever they are they certainly know how to "con" the public.

Kevin Watts

We the donators need to be a bit more wary of charities and support those who openly disclose how money will be spent. World vision for example openly promotes that around 80 cents in the dollar goes directly to those in need in the third world-a fair enough margin for them to run their business on. Red cross DEFINITELY has an obligation to see that a fair proportion of the money goes where they said it would. Those who gave thinking their entire donation would go to Bali victims should be able to recover their money from Red Cross and give it to another charity-if I pay for a blue shirt and the shop gives me a red one, I take it back for a refund after all.

Tim

I'm sick and tired of all these charity people getting in my face for money, there's too many of them and many of them spend large portions on other things and take % for themselves. I forget which one it was but Russel Crowe wouldn't work with them because they wanted to take 10% of the profits made! Get outa my face stand to the side and when I recognise you lot as being legite and I see your expenses / profits / donation reports then I'll give but other then that I once again say "Stop harrasing me".

Feed up charity competition

You are better off giving money directly to a homeless person, rather than a charity. That way, you know they get it, and it doesn't go missing...

Yeah right!

I don't know what people really expect from charities. Give yourself a attractive cause, print a few posters, get yourself registered, persuade the media to do a nice little piece on you and then, hey, pull in the money and employ yourself on a nice wage.

Do yourself a favour people, give directly to people in need if you feel so inclined. Or take direct action to help people in non-monetary ways. Otherwise all you are really doing is salving your conscience and helping other peoples lifestyles or religious causes.

Hardened Cynic

Charities should be more accountable and transparent in their operations. The Red Cross has betrayed the trust placed in it by millions of Australians and will now have a hard time with future appeals. It is particularly shocking that the Balinese victims have been treated with contempt even though donations were clearly given for all victims. I do not believe the Red Cross has the discretion to use funds for any other purpose other than the intention claimed at the time of the appeal. Any other use is fraudulent.

Frederick Prins

Money raised for the Bali victims should have been duly distributed to the victims themselves. For the Red Cross to withhold $400.000 for costs is immoral. Obviously Charity begins at the Red Cross!

Bishop Harry Westcott

I donated quite a bit of money to the victims, and i DID NOT AUTHORISE it to be spent on other programmes.

I feel ripped off.

They advertised and and i quote " a victim relief appeal". They didnt say that it was going on a skin burns treatment programme, ambo's or anything else. Those programmes should come out of the Red Cross appeal and from corporate and goverment appeals and donations.

i feel the AFP should investigate for fraud. Willfully decieving the public to obtain funds.Their creditability stinks to high heaven. They have done themselves an incredible dis-service, and brough their name into total disrepute.

Next time they come around "knock and tap and ring until ya do", im gunna say

"PISS OFF"

So bloody un-australian it makes wme wanna puke!

Steve Mccartney...totally disgusted with them

It's the people of Bali who should receive most of the money. They have suffered the most and continue to do so.

Peter Thew

I think under these horrendous circumstances all charities need to be audited and held accountable for their actions. Very little humanitarian effort has gone into actions. Iam saddened that so many generous people have given from their hearts to see another organisation gice to their bank balance. Bring back the Auditor.

Gerard Phipps

Accountability is the keyword, as with executives. Let's publicly list the people responsible for the disbursement of money. There may be valid reasons for hanging off with the money, e.g. to build a hospital, to build a rehabilitation centre, or whatever. However, if they've been hanging onto it for no reason, or spending it on office renovations, updating telephone systems at Head Office, let's hear about it. For example, what about the pathetic excuse in this morning's paper that the ambulances were technically delivered, it's just that there were no ambulances sent to Indonesia -- get out the cattle prod!! And let's make sure NONE of the money is spent on PR companies to put a good spin on this story for the Red Cross.