Playful Kiss: Episode 12

I won’t lie. This episode was not easy to recap. I don’t have stellar expectations for this show to begin with, so I’m usually easy to please when it comes to Playful Kiss. Be cute. The end. But this episode left me shaking my fist in the air, and wanting to revoke Ha-ni’s membership from…being a GIRL.

EPISODE 12 RECAP

Mom asks Seung-jo to move back home and stop giving Ha-ni such a hard time. Seung-jo tells her that he left precisely to get away from her attempts to control him. He notes that she never asked him what he wanted when she brought Ha-ni back into the house, bringing Mom near tears.

After he leaves, she frets that he’s left home to discover his own path, but nothing has actually changed in his life. Dad tells her to wait it out for him to figure things out on his own.

Min-ah and Ju-ri come by for lunch, telling Ha-ni about a high school reunion, complete with a school-uniform dress code. But, didn’t they graduate, like yesterday? Ha-ni gets weak in the knees thinking about Seung-jo back in his high school uniform.

She finds him at school to tell him about it, and he brushes her off coldly, saying that he doesn’t know who came up with such a childish idea, but he’s not interested. Ha-ni mumbles to herself as he walks off, “How can I possibly know what’s in that head of yours?” Yeah, you’re not the only one who’s wondering, as the comments in this thread’ll tell ya.

He hears her and turns around to give her the stink eye, and walks off.

Mom suggests a scheme to get Seung-jo to the reunion. Gah, this is why he’s running away from you. Maybe you want to give the scheming a rest for a while, till he stops pushing Ha-ni away because of your “plans”?

Ha-ni gets dressed in her old school uniform, getting nostalgic for the good old days, even taking out her D-minus love letter and remembering it fondly.

At the event, Ha-ni rubbernecks around for Seung-jo, finding him sitting alone in his regular clothes, complete with sour look of disdain. She heads over and he coughs up her house keys, completing his mom-assigned task with little desire to humor her further. Although it does make me wonder: if you hate being controlled so much, then why do you always do as she asks, knowing exactly why you’re being asked to do it? Not that I don’t know the power of the Korean Mother’s Request For Favors. They’re not requests—they’re thinly-veiled commands from up high, couched in social graces. It’s like if Noriega used words like “please” and “thank you.”

Ha-ni tries to get Seung-jo to stay and have some fun since he’s here anyway, (grabbing his wrist) but he shakes her off and leaves curtly. But not two feet away, when his classmates greet him, he joins them at a table, smiling and chatting like a person not made of inorganic metal parts.

Unsurprisingly, his friends from high school are the cream of the crop smartypants boys from good families, who all went to Taesan University, where Seung-jo missed his interview that day. They see Ha-ni across the aisle and assume that they’re really dating now, making her smile. But Seung-jo, still angry, and well, being Seung-jo and all, flatly denies it, saying, “I don’t keep those sorts of things [girlfriends].”

Ha-ni glares and pouts, then stalks away, and Seung-jo clocks her every move. You passive-aggressive little snot.

At the gathering, Bye Bye Sea gets introduced as Bye Bye Sea, now having officially become a band after high school. While they play, Ha-ni notes that Seung-jo is brooding in the corner, lost in his thoughts. He’s angsting over what to do with his life, now confronted with the fact that his classmates have all chosen majors while he’s still undeclared, and they suggest that he simply rest on his laurels and inherit his father’s company.

The next time Ha-ni looks up, he’s gone. She takes the coat he left behind and heads home, wondering what was on his mind.

Seung-jo heads to his apartment, stopping outside to think over his father’s wishes for him to follow in his footsteps, and Ha-ni’s suggestion that he become a doctor.

Ha-ni shows up behind him with his jacket, (which he totally left there on purpose, subconsciously) asking him to unload on her: “They say that if you share something bad it splits in half, and if you share something good, it doubles.” He smiles at that, and as Ha-ni waits expectantly, he gets up to announce his decision: he will be going pre-med.

Well, duh.

Ha-ni is shocked, though, not knowing of course the extent to which she influences him. He just makes her promise not to say anything to anyone yet. ‘Cause that worked so well last time. She watches him walk away curiously, breaking into a smile when she realizes that she’s the only one on this planet who knows this about Seung-jo. Oh, the power of secrets.

Kyung-soo is planning a Top Spin ten-year anniversary party, and in order to get He-ra to attend, the other club officer (a great side character who I wish we saw more of) tells him to just get Seung-jo to come. For that, he needs Ha-ni, naturally. She doesn’t want to keep using Seung-jo as bait for He-ra, but Kyung-soo pleads with her, and sends her literally into Seung-jo’s path.

She tells him that his dad went to the hospital today for a check-up, and Seung-jo heads home to see the results. He reads the chart and deduces that Dad needs to watch out for his heart health. Mom cuts Dad off from sweets or fried foods, making him pout like she cancelled Christmas.

Ha-ni arrives at Dad’s restaurant to find Joon-gu hard at work on his first official dish that’s going to be served to customers. Dad praises him for his talent and dedication, making Ha-ni see him in a new light. Well it’s about time! She stares at him intently, saying that she’s only known him to be a slacker, but this is the first time she’s ever seen him do anything so diligently. Except love you? But you wouldn’t know about that.

Duckie’s made her a lunch spread fit for kings, and I’m having serious food envy right now. He’s on pins and needles awaiting her verdict, and she takes one bite…”DAEBAK!” Duckie pretty much dies of happiness right then and there.

At school, Ha-ni approaches He-ra with some trepidation, but she asks if she’ll be attending the Top Spin party (No) and whether she’s picked a major. One-track mind, this girl. She’s concerned that He-ra might follow Seung-jo all the way to med school. He-ra, in a surprising moment of clarity that makes me respect her, laughs at Ha-ni’s silliness, saying that she’ll choose her major based on what SHE wants to do…because it’s HER life.

Thank you! Finally a girl with some sense! I know, I normally love to despise this girl, but here she’s a great example for Ha-ni, who’s got some serious growing up to do, in this respect. But then to set the world back on its proper axis, He-ra finishes it off with her trademark condescending bitchiness, petting Ha-ni on the head like a child. Ha-ni frowns as she watches He-ra go, admitting to herself that in this one way, He-ra’s pretty impressive. I certainly hope it encourages you to ask what YOU want to do with your life…other than love Seung-jo, that is.

She runs into Seung-jo on campus, and tells him that He-ra, all of her friends, even Duckie, are all figuring out what they want to do with their lives, but she…isn’t. Well then shouldn’t this be lighting a fire under your ass?

She tells Seung-jo that she does have a dream. It’s to…be his nurse when he starts a little medical practice somewhere. Or to be a stewardess if he becomes a pilot. Or a caddy if he becomes a golf pro.

THUNK. That would be the sound of my opinion of you…dropping so far into the Earth’s core that it came out the other side.

Seriously? What in the WHAT, now? Did you really just say that your Big Life Plan…is to follow Seung-jo around for the rest of your life and be his assistant, his secretary, his token lackey? Why the FRAK did you go to college to get a first-rate education, then??

VOMIT.

I’m ashamed of you right now. I know it’s harsh, but that’s the truth.

Seung-jo smiles and tells her that she’s got unrealistic goals, but they’re her dreams, and very Ha-ni-esque ones at that. He pats her on the back and tells her that the unreachable dreams are ones fighting for.

He gets called home by Dad, who pitches a fit at finding out that he’s chosen to be a doctor. Yeah, that’s not unrealistic at ALL, Show. Dad is heartbroken over Seung-jo’s flat refusal to inherit the family company, so much so that he actually has a heart attack.

Oh, GOD. Really, Show? We’re just careening off the deep end today, are we?

Needless to say, Dad’s stress-related heart condition is enough to get Seung-jo to go in and help run the company in Dad’s absence, and move back into the house. In an amusing bit of meta, the second he walks in, the two women in the office swoon and call him Yonsama. Haha.

Ha-ni relishes playing the housewife (sigh) to Seung-jo while the parents are in the hospital. Eun-jo whines about the abundance of inedible food at the dinner table, but Seung-jo doesn’t make one complaint about her horrible cooking, and eats it, knowing how hard she worked. Okay, that’s adorable.

She calls Dad to ask him how to make an egg side dish, and Duckie overhears that Ha-ni is packing Seung-jo’s lunch. Seung-jo reluctantly takes the lunch that Ha-ni made after hearing that she woke up at the crack of dawn to make it, and smiles when he opens it up.

Duckie comes in, having tracked Seung-jo down at the office, and hands him a new lunch, one that he made instead. Seung-jo lets Duckie run off with Ha-ni’s lunch, since well, he saved him from having to actually eat it. Heh.

Duckie sits in the park with Ha-ni’s lunchbox, eager to taste her cooking, despite his mood sagging when he sees the heart-shaped food. He takes a bite…and wonders if Ha-ni actually hates Seung-jo. HAHAHA.

Seung-jo sits up late that night, and tells Ha-ni that Dad isn’t doing well, and he’ll probably have to undergo surgery. He’ll have to stay at the company, and give up his med school dreams.

Ha-ni tells him that he can’t—it’s the first time he’s ever found something he’s wanted to do. He can’t give that up. But Seung-jo is doing the dutiful thing, and even though he doesn’t enjoy working for his father, he knows it’s the right thing to do. Ha-ni reminds him of his graduation promise—to have fun. Seung-jo says that he’ll have to sacrifice that in order to make others happy (the other half of the promise).

Ha-ni sweetly back-hugs him, knowing that it’s all she can do.

At school, He-ra deduces what Seung-jo is doing to help his family, and goads Ha-ni about not being able to do anything but follow him around and say empty words. That spurs Ha-ni to get a job at the company, and follow Seung-jo to work. Gah, I’m getting really tired of this same plot pattern being used over and over again. It’s the same dynamic and nothing changes.

Seung-jo meets with a potential investor, who takes a liking to him instantly, so much so that he asks for Seung-jo to meet his granddaughter. What, now you have to prostitute yourself for Dad’s company? This is going to a weird place. Did we step into a different drama?

Seung-jo shows up to the blind date, and who should be sitting there? Why He-ra of course. Who didn’t see that coming?

COMMENTS

Well, it looks like He-ra’s pulling out the big guns, but I’m pretty sure this is the move that’ll get her black-balled. I mean, Seung-jo isn’t exactly the corporate-merger-arranged-marriage type. I foresee some angst for Ha-ni, who is faithfully taking care of Seung-jo at home. I’m pretty sure if I were doing that much cooking, I’d be pissed that he was getting his kicks elsewhere with the she-witch from Whoville.

I’m so glad that Duckie has turned a new leaf, and has become passionate about something other than just loving Ha-ni. Note how it’s at that moment that Ha-ni starts to see him differently. That’s exactly what I want for Ha-ni too—to grow and become her own person, find her own dreams and desires. Because right now I see why Seung-jo isn’t shouting her name from the rooftops. Her entire identity is wrapped up in him, and it’s starting to show at the seams.

I know this has been the case for Ha-ni from the beginning, but now that DUCKIE the perennial slacker has found purpose in his life, her lack of such…pales in comparison. I certainly hope that Ha-ni gets the same sort of character development that the male characters are getting, because if she doesn’t, we’ll have WORDS, Show.

To be honest, her lack of oomph on that front kind of killed my love for her in this episode. I’m hoping that it’s part of her arc, and that she’ll be growing. I just want to believe that, because if all she does is fulfill her current dream…I may vomit from the implication that that’s…enough. I frankly don’t have that much hope for her now, which makes the rest of it (her winning Seung-jo in the end) less satisfying, if that’s ALL she’s about.

Duckie’s development highlights again the pot-lid metaphor, because when she began to take him seriously, I thought, wouldn’t it be perfect if the two characters who were so devoted in love…could love each other? But then that’s the whole point—why they’re not meant to be—because they’re both lids. Or pots. Whichever. They’re of the same mold, which makes them redundant, to each other. It’s not necessarily a belief I hold in real life, but I like what the drama is doing with it as a romantic throughline, because it’s a great point narratively. It makes character differences interesting, and not just as motivations for clashes. It’s the puzzle idea—that two people need to be complementary to fit together, not shaped the same way. In that respect I do enjoy the relationship between Seung-jo and Ha-ni, as they continue to complement each other. I just wish that it wasn’t always Ha-ni matching herself to Seung-jo. I want her to form her own piece, and for Seung-jo to try and match her once in a while too.

October 12, 2010 at 10:46 AM

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haha, and here I thought you were just being facetious... imagine my surprise when I started reading those comments and actually DID discover intelligent debates going on. Will wonders never cease? Who would've thought PK of all things would warrant such riveting reading? ^_^

October 12, 2010 at 11:09 AM

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LOL suddenly everybody started having an existential crisis. It's kinda funny if you remember that it was only a little five minute scene. And yet, it exemplifies the predominant reason why PK is so polarising.

October 13, 2010 at 5:00 PM

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* suddenly everybody started having an existential crisis. *

i was having one when i started watching this drama... :)
and this drama has been a pure joy to watch that warms my spirit with all its sincere fluffiness, which reminds each of us something deep inside, from a long long once upon a time when wishes came true...

December 21, 2010 at 11:35 PM

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haha been a long time since i read the comments sector...
all i can say is wow...
people really has some strong opinions about ths drama..
I mean for me, what you read is what you read, what you watch is what you watch.. it all depends if you make something you read/watch into your daily life mission & path to take...
so its for us to decide whether we take the STORY of Hani & SeungJo as a role model or just a form of entertainment. and for me PK is for pure entertainment same as Da Vinci Code is just a fiction book i read...
hmmnnn...

October 13, 2010 at 5:41 PM

" I just wish that it wasn’t always Ha-ni matching herself to Seung-jo. I want her to form her own piece, and for Seung-jo to try and match her once in a while too."
--Drama beans---

Im just quoting it.. ^_^ i love it...

Ha ni become unrealistic of finding herself what she is... getting into College for what? just to finish and trail down Seung jo again and again? is she really EXPECTING Seung Jo will be there (pARANG uNIVERSITY) following her...well it really happen but what if he wasn't?
stepping into other shadows.. Nah!

I may agree if her BIG Dream is to be Seung Jo's behalf... as wife and a mother for their children..

I am totally 100% AGREE what you say about Ha Ni

"Because right now I see why Seung-jo isn’t shouting her name from the rooftops. Her entire identity is wrapped up in him, and it’s starting to show at the seams." --Drama beans---

..well i think that's the plot of the story..

by the way.. another sunbae showed up to confessed his feeling to Ha Ni.. where is he now? why he's not bugging her like Joon Goo do if he really like Ha Ni? he was just for that episode?
Nah.. Just asking..

I love Duckie too.. aggressive to be a chef..

making a thing for HIMSELF to make HA NI proud..

WHy oh Why.. HA NI must do like that too..
go off to Seung Jo's shadow and search for your own good fortune where can oppah be proud of you aside from good on trailing him.. hehehe

she just can't found herself because she refuse to unwrap her from 4years of emotion.

October 12, 2010 at 6:01 AM

October 12, 2010 at 6:03 AM

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this is what my main pet peeve for this story...on how the female lead's life revolves around the male lead...the taiwanese version burned all my hair because of the annoying female lead dreams and behavior...so its actually refreshing to me, and kinda less disturbing, on how pk treat this grating plot on the whole story...and the main reason for me feeling less annoyed by it was by JUNG SO MIN...i love this girl so much...and her treatment of Hani was very relatable...i also hope that the korean version will manage to form Hani's identity outside of BSJ, the other version, well the other versions particularly the taiwanese, didn't. (well for the first series, i didn't finish the second because by practically ep 7 i almost want to smack ariel lin's face for being annoying)

October 12, 2010 at 6:28 AM

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maybe try to continue TKA, if you can. she kinda careened herself into some kind of maturity, still pretty much devoted to her husband but nonetheless a bit of self-respect [at least how i perceived it.]

i do love JSM's characterization of Hani. but i think PK's flow of story is still pretty weak compared to the taiwanese. i guess the best adaptation is the anime. how i hope the japanese will "re-remake" this.

i think the mangaka's main goal was not to show Kotoko/Hani's development but how she's the instrument to Naoki/Seungjo's. this is why she's a frustrating character cause we want her to gain a little self-respect.

October 12, 2010 at 6:56 AM

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Oh I seriously doubt - TKA was just a continuation of the nausea that ISWAK caused. This show damaged my confidence in humans. Whenever I found a spare moment I would find myself wallowing in horror that this story was actually 'popular'.

Like I said before, this is not a love story. It's a story of how how one woman grovels without any self-respect and one man needs the constant ego-massage of said woman to survive. It's a pot and lid alright - and all things wholesome and lovable are being stewed alive inside of it.

October 12, 2010 at 8:05 AM

October 12, 2010 at 4:24 PM

October 12, 2010 at 8:23 AM

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same same. i actually watched iswak and tka so i'll know what pk is all about. well, while i hated that taiwanese seung jo is iswak because he was mean and cruel and very seung jo-esque (without the lovable robot boy factor)... i started to have a love-hate relationship with him by tka. you got to love the guy after suffering so much from all the crazy shenanigans of the girl... really, she became a nurse because he is a doctor.... so i hope they will not turn oh ha-ni to that spineless irritating crazy freakish girl of the iswak tka... its girl power time... and notice that seung jo only notices her when she is not so available to him... learn from that oh ha-ni!

October 12, 2010 at 8:33 AM

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THIS! I agree 100% and it's why reading the Itazura Na Kiss manga drove me up the wall and I could never watch the TW version or the anime (though I've tried because of all the rave over it). The only reason I'm watching this drama is because:

1) I wanted to see how Jung So Min did after Bad Guy because I love her
2) There's nothing else I'm too interested in watching.

October 12, 2010 at 9:09 AM

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At @ GaRA you could view it the way you do it and then you could also consider a different angle.

For me why I enjoyed this show was very simple (and in Taiwanese version is even more clear) because this drama is about a guy who is very smart academically but very lacking in emotional intellegence and about a girl who falls in love with him and against all odds cannot stop loving him and through her devotion makes him a better and and a more complete human being. Also I haven't seen the idea of "you are not pretty or cool, but I still love you" expressed anywhere else so distinctly.

Yes, I agree this drama has a lot of drawbacks and I must admit I was very close to tearing out my hair in certain parts (the main heroine's lack of competence and her general aimlessness can be grating), but there is a saving grace for this drama as well! In my life I've met a lot of guys (even dated one for 4 years..) that are just not good at expressing themselves or showing emotion, does that make them jerks who seek constant personal gratification through their GFs? Not necessarily. I think that ISWAK is a realistic story in a sense that many girls can feel this way about their BFs "he's so cold and insensitive" but at the end of the day he's with you and only you! He doesn't care about other cool, sexy girls. He stays with you and he cares for you in the only way he can express.

October 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM

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thank you for this comment. people view things differently so i'm one of those people who see this story more on the positives than the negatives.

i dont argue when people express frustration and anger on the female character's annoying habits. it's not something to be proud of. but like you said, and i do wish, viewers could still look at the story as a whole on a different angle.

October 12, 2010 at 5:15 PM

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Thank you so much for this comment. I am not watching PK because I watched ISWAK and TKA faithfully. But I love reading the recaps and the comments on dramabeans. I have a love hate relationship with the comments section because though the korean version is cute and all that, it upset me that there was severe bashing of the taiwanese version(which I adored). I feel that the TW version had a soul and Ariel had succeeded in portraying the naivety and indecisiveness of Xiang Qin so perfectly.

And the emotional development of Zhi Shu and the way he begins to respect Xiang Qin was clearly shown. Ex: the scene in TKA when she drives her pregnant friend to the hospital, the way zhishu worries for her and realizes that she has that Life's grace for being so single minded and determined about what she wants. He admires her in that scene.

I ranted off too much. I know many people here hate the TW version but had you watched it with an open mind you would have seen that it is more soulful compared to the korean version which is merely fluff. Not that I hate the korean version. I was in fact happy that Hani had so much backbone till this ep happened. :( Well, it doesnt matter, I love both versions. And thanks for saying good things about the TW version.

October 15, 2010 at 8:15 PM

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@ Aprana

Yes, I totally agree! I think what is essentially lost in the korean version (and say this having only seen the first 2 episodes) is that the heroine is not as silly, clueless and unsexy as she's in ISWAK and the hero is not cold-hearted and emotionally unresponsive as in the taiwanese version, which is the CORE of the tension of the drama. If you remove that aspect from the drama, what is left? Just some girl who doesn't have perfect grades falling in love with a guy who still hasn't hit "puberty" and hasn't grown up yet? What's exciting about that?
The taiwanese version is more extreme but that is also the point! That is the heart of the drama, seeing that jerk Zhi Shu struggle against falling for adorable, kind-hearted, completely clueless and incompetent Xiang Qing. Yes she did love him too much, but is she really weak? I think she's quite strong to be able to love someone like that and endure so much with utmost devotion. Yes, in individualistic country like US those kind of things are frowned upon, here your career and inner strength is more important than anything else but I think for China and Taiwan family values take priority. Personally I acceept and loved Xiang Qin the way she is. She's a person I would want to have as my family or a friend, and that's all that matters to me.

October 12, 2010 at 10:04 AM

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So agree. Even the declaration of love in ISWAK was insulting and demeaning. I absolutely hated that drama, and it makes me sad that it is so popular. PK is better. Still not something young girls should watch, lest they think this is a good way to run a relationship, but better than the other.

October 12, 2010 at 10:34 AM

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@ GaRa as well: you're partly right but that's just looking at the story from its negative side. i guess like the saying goes, we can agree to disagree. cause i think it's a love story of how kotoko's cheerful, upbeat personality changed the almost-void-of-emotions Naoki. that's one way to look at it.

October 12, 2010 at 12:27 PM

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@Ga ra - Thank you! I read the manga and was pretty much dumbstruck by the popularity of it, I don't understand how people can love or respect a story about a relationship where a woman bases her *entire life* on feelings that are barely reciprocal. If you take away the cute element, and look at the cold, hard, plot points, I find that it seems to be promoting such a grossly unhealthy idea of what a good relationship, and 'love' is.

I just had to say this because I've been reading the recaps waiting for the point of no return with Ha-ni's character. I'll now read down thread and try and find the answer as to why so many people love this.

October 13, 2010 at 10:34 AM

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honestly, the plot is so simple that it could have been made up by any teenager.. i guess the refreshing part of it is that it speaks true for most girls in the world, where they think 'if you try hard enough, it might be possible." who wouldn't dream one way or another of being with someone unattainable? in OHN's case he is just sooo near. The setup was very inevitable, two people caught up in almost all scenario?? it's like rubbing two stones, and you get fire!!! most parts of the show, i either shut my eyes, close my ears or pause the video because of aggravation on OHN' actions, but heheheh in the end i laugh at it. so ridiculous but makes you think,,, does it work???

October 12, 2010 at 10:33 PM

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I have to agree that (in ISWAK and especially TKA) I found ariel's character gratingly clingy and spineless at times, and Joe's character cruel and hate-able sometimes too. However, I enjoyed it nonetheless. It broke my heart for her over and over.

But I think its okay to enjoy a show about characters you can't respect. As much as a strong female lead is good for women, she isn't the only kind of woman who exists in this world. A woman who lives for her man has real, raw emotions just as much as any other woman. Her experiences are human experiences, and I think they're worth exploring. Just as a man who's as emotionally and socially inept as Joe's character (sry-can't remember their names) can be compelling and pitiable.
And I have to agree with whoever says that they both change. It takes a while before you see those changes, and it takes a lot of hurt to get there, but I'm glad I watched the whole thing through. I won't watch it again because it made me too sad (the first couple episodes of TKA alone sent me through a whole range of emotions, most of them not happy ones)
also, agree that there are def. different ways to view their dynamic and Hani is at the very core of SeungJo's metamorphosis.

October 12, 2010 at 6:10 AM

October 12, 2010 at 6:12 AM

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Totally agree with you about Ha-Ni in this episode.
This is my fluff drama. I don't expect anything from it except fluff. Her extreme stalking throughout all the episodes kind of irked me, but I let it go.

But her life dream... I had to stop the video, and proceed to complain (with caps to show JUST how angry I was) about Ha-Ni to my friend. Because what she said was what I absolutely HATE. Lack of individuality, lack of independence.

She lost a lot of cute in that moment... And gained a lot of stupid in my opinion.

October 12, 2010 at 8:04 AM

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ITA with your comments and girlfriday's frustration.

But I have to say that, in order to stay true to the manga, this is how the show has to portray HaNi. If it didn't it wouldn't be PK. It would be something else, drawing from Itazura no Kiss but going its own way.

As for ISWAK, I've watched some of it lately (while jonesing for PK episode 13) and Seung Jo/Naoki/Zhi Shu does actually change and he does consider her. And she is the catalyst for a lot of what they do as a couple in TKA. Not him. He genuinely loves her and -- believe it or not -- respects her.

Of course his interfering mother would make a sane person run screaming for the hills--or a therapist's office, but this is also very true to the manga. It also explains a lot of his behavior. Sure it would be great if they actually TALKED about this stuff, but you wouldn't have drama or angst if they did. And we can't have that!

At the end of the day you have to see it for what it is NOT (a testament to the power that high self-esteem and confidence can have in a young girl's life). Although there are plenty of times in all of the episodes to date I have wanted to slap SJ, HN and Momma Baek upside the head to shake some sense into them. :D

October 12, 2010 at 8:08 AM

October 12, 2010 at 10:06 AM

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This was the one area that ISWAK was a bit better. This character became a nurse because she wanted to help little kids suffering. The fact that it would keep her close to her love was just icing on the cake for her. I was nauseated myself after watching the PK version.

October 12, 2010 at 6:16 PM

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Oh, so that's how she became a nurse in ISWAK? Thanks, that gives me some hope for PK. XD; I had heard that she only decided nursing to follow him around, but if there's another deep reason for it, then it's okay.

Hope PK does this, too, like they re-visit the sick little boy story and the hospital staff encourage Hani to be a nurse since she's so bright and compassionate and likes taking care of people (not just SeungJo). Even better if this happens while SeungJo is still with his dad's company and not in med school, so that Hani herself chooses a separate path from him (but in some way, she is also honoring his unfulfilled dream awww). Then they can happily work together in the hospital at the end. ^^

PLEASE, PK writers?? I mean, the idea of a girl dedicating her whole life to the guy she loves is sweet for a shoujo manga, but if you're talking about real people and their life after the happy "ending" of them finally getting together, then there needs to be more. Like SeungJo quoted, a love in which two people lose their freedom (identity) is doomed to fail. While he likes her devotion, SeungJo tries to push Hani to improve and become her own person so that he can truly love and respect her, not just the attention she gives him. I sincerely hope the writers show this because this is one part of this "timeless" story that needs to be updated, badly!

October 12, 2010 at 9:36 PM

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Robyn, GirlFriday... PREACH. This is what bugs me about many Korean dramas -- though it seems even more highlighted here. Somehow stalking, following someone around at the expense of yourself and your identity (to the point that it becomes your identity) has come to equal LOVE. And while Seung Jo obviously has feelings for her as well, how is Ha Ni's behavior acceptable while In Hee's from Personal Taste or every other evil second female lead isn't? Those females are also following a guy around in hopes of securing a relationship despite the guy's objections. The fact that Ha Ni is cute and considered our heroine makes this even more objectionable to me than In Hee's because it validates Ha Ni's behavior/attitude. With In Hee, we knew what she was doing was wrong. Do younger girls watching this know that Ha Ni's attitude is NOT what they're supposed to be emulating? Argh. This is why I loved Park Shi Yeon's Eun Young in Coffee House so much. You can be independent and successful and still be cute! Sheesh.

October 14, 2010 at 9:42 AM

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Disagree big time. Yes, Eun Young in Coffee House was also cute and funny but she was also manipulative and conniving. She did things to accomplish her own agenda without concern for the other persons feelings. Ha Ni in Playful Kiss is cute and funny but never does things out of a malicious or self-serving purpose. She is just a good-hearted klutz.

I agree she needs to grow up and develop some self-worth. But, is it really bad to have a love so deep that you would give up everything, even yourself, for that love? It's a love we all dream about but few feel it or receive it. How sad for us. But, we get to watch it on PK so I'll keep on watching a love I'll never know.

August 31, 2012 at 12:21 PM

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hmmmm, interesting point.

But such a love should go to someone who actually deserves it, right? Not saying that love is logical in any way; just that Ha Ni giving up herself for smug bastard/passive robot-BSJ, who just selfishly strings her along is more than a little bit AGGRAVATING!!!!!!

Then again, she IS just 20 years old; we can only hope she gains some self-respect and high-esteem later on in life.

October 12, 2010 at 6:13 AM

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I like the show. I take it for what it is: a cutesy show meant to tickle the tween hearts in us. However, I have to agree with girlfriday. I am frustrated with the overused stalker plot and Hani's seemingly single purpose in life. It's like Seung Jo is her life support. It's tiring to see a girl continually demean herself and go through so many self-pitying moments.

October 13, 2010 at 7:49 AM

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I agree. That's the first time he's 'admitted' his feelings. I can't wait to watch his declaration of love for Hani. I hope KHJ will be able to pull it off. He's been pretty stiff when it comes to hugging and kissing so far.

October 12, 2010 at 6:24 AM

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This recap was short...I think because you said you had such a hard time writing it? LOL

Well, I can't say that the developments of this episode were unexpected (because of course, they are in ISWAK and the manga) but I really always hated how dependent Ha-Ni (or Xiang Qing) was on the man (Seung Jo/Zhi Zhu)...even in ISWAK, I kept waiting for the girl to develop some backbone, some personal taste, some opinions and direction on her own.

But I'm hoping the writers of Playful Kiss will change this aspect of the story and the character...hoping next episode is better!!

October 12, 2010 at 6:26 AM

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With a drama like this, you totally have to kill any feminist or progressive hopes, because it will butcher them.

I really hoped they would in a good direction with the whole career thing because it pissed me off so much (SO MUCH). And the drama is totally messing around with us on that front anyway - the girl has ALL this personality so what the hell with her saying she can't identify herself independently from Seung Jo. It's a glaring inconsistency to try to force in some supposedly romantic idealisation. Whereas Seung Jo has none - which was meant to be the point, hello Robot Boy - so it was all just so aarrrgh.

Also I disliked how they made the only person who recognised the value of independent choice to be the girl who we aren't meant to be rooting for.

I'm just going to turn my head the other way and pretend it never happened. Because, honestly, it adds nothing to the narrative anyway except to make me want to bash my head against the wall.

Stay cute, drama! You pretty much showed that you're incompetent at anything else!

October 12, 2010 at 6:38 AM

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Oh, thanks for the recap, Girlfriday :)

I think this episode had a bit of tension! Poor Seung Jo's father =( SJ was really too mean, however, I'm sorry for him now...I think he agreed to meet He Ra due to the same reason why he agreed to rule the company. He considers that this way he will be able to help his father! Wrong Belief! But, anyways...

The one person apart SJ who will suffer is, as usual, Oh Ha Ni =( Sadly...

I totally enjoyed their scenes! Especially, the hug! It was so warm and cute! Stupid He Ra said that Ha Ni wouldn't be able to help SJ! Oh, really? And you consider yourself being smart, dear? Seriously?! There is no need always being able to help by some action! Sometimes just warm and sincere word of beloved person can help you! That's why SJ need Ha Ni but not you!!! Sorry, guys, but I was really angry at her! She's becoming more and more annoying and disgusting! (koreans made her this way! I did like He Ra in other versions! Moreover, she was't SJ *proposed* bride there!)

I don't know why but I was tought by the scene where SJ helped Ha Ni with bags...I mean not the fact of his help but his facial expression. He was upset, and it seemed to me he was feeling that abnormal feeling of impending separation with her! Now he does really suffer!

Boom Joon Gu, you're awesome! Having cooked meal for the person whom you don't like just to be able to get lunch box of beloved girl...Oh, you are so sweet! I think I would definitely fall for you, haha) Though the meal was awful, you ate all of that! There is your and SJ's similarity ;)

October 12, 2010 at 6:41 AM

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I think somebody in one of the other reviews (or maybe Soompi) has said this before...this drama was written 20 years ago...things were quite different back then (well not like 1950s but still...in Japan I guess). I am not sure if Show is willing to change the whole story to adapt to the times of now.

I think the important point is that even Ha Ni knows that her life revolves around SJ and she does regret it....she is ashamed of it when she is telling SJ about it. She is not particularly proud of herself that she does not have an individual personality.

On the other hand, lol I've been waiting forever for your review...I guess I was expecting you to overlook the dependent part...but it's hard since we live in a post-feminist era (I am all for women's rights...this is why I want to pursue Law).

October 12, 2010 at 6:45 AM

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Oooh I didn't know it was written 20 years ago, that's really good to know. Some of the ideas were slightly out-dated so its good to know that the structure of the story does come from a different time.

October 12, 2010 at 8:40 AM

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"She knows exactly what she wants."
That's exactly what I envy about Hani. I am in this stage in my life when I am not sure what to do with it. I am things I like but am to afraid to pursue so instead, I am doing something I dislike but is safer. Sometimes, I wish I was like Hani and pursue whatever I actually enjoy doing, consequences be damned. Of course, I am not... Sigh.

October 12, 2010 at 6:33 PM

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I do hope Hani finds something she wants to do besides follow SeungJo, but in a way, I understand it because like you said, it's just what she wants. Her goal in life is to have fun and make others happy, and helping SeungJo is exactly that. Hani knows she isn't very good at anything, except when she's with SeungJo. It's not just that he's there to help her if she needs it; it's also that she has the dedication and motivation, the spirit, to do well when she's with him. He helps her achieve things and give her confidence.

At the same time, SeungJo will admit that he does appreciate and sometimes need Hani's help since "she has what I don't" (compassion). Don't want Hani to define herself just by SeungJo, but I think the story's point is that they are both at their best when they're together.

October 12, 2010 at 7:49 PM

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What is the first thing that women see when they look in the mirror--their own flaws! It is difficult for HaNi to accept her primal desire for SJ like you stated-thank you-, but the truth is not always perfect or ideal. To constantly have a strong heroin is boring, and really not comparable to real life. So is there shame in wanting to be a good housewife and mother? I picked a career that would allow me to contribute financially to my family, and offered flexibility with my top priority--my family. It is not something I love, but something that helps and contributes to the things that I love. As marred as HaNi's desires are, they are not uncommon.

October 12, 2010 at 6:47 AM

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oh... so that's why the recap for this episode came late. coz this one sucks. hehehe

actually, the real flaw of this drama is that the lead female character's ultimate dream is to be with the lead male character all the time. the nurse, the secretary, the wife, the shadow... that's what she wanted to do.

pining over a boy is cute but having no dreams at all and leaving no love for yourself is blatantly wrong.

however, i still like this story just because of the a-dork-ability of the characters. i still love mrs. baek and her schemes. i still like robot boy with perm straw hair seungjo and i will forever adore little miss hani who should start living by her words of wisdom. :)

October 12, 2010 at 6:49 AM

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I actually found this episode pretty enjoyable! Much more enjoyable that the ep with Hani stalking Seungjo at his restaurant everyday and even fainting cos of it- that was stupid.

But this ep was cute. I liked Hani acting as the wife, and Seungjo appreciating her gestures. When she came back home with the groceries, he even went downstairs just to carry the groceries into the kitchen for her, before returning upstairs again. How cute is that!

Seungjo really does love her. Its the small gestures and looks towards her that totally gives him away. And you're right the mom may be awesome, but she's actually bringing out the rebel in seungjo- he just doesn't want his life to be manipulated by her all the time.

One minor quibble: the back hug really lacked chemistry. :( I wanted to enjoy it, and have an "aww" moment. But no. They are always awkward with the skinship scenes (esp the hospital one where he touched and leaned against her), and this wasn't any different.

October 12, 2010 at 7:04 AM

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thanks for the recap gf....maybe because I've seen the previous versions and Kotoko/Hani's ambition-clingy-around Seung Jo is one of the things that really irritate me in any version....this version is no better but I am glad they don't put any montage of Hani's fantasy of her life goals with Seung Jo.... really want to shake her and tell her there's more to life than love and find her own self worth....
anyway I still love this show and I want to root for Hani

October 12, 2010 at 8:24 AM

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Thank you so much for posting the links! I searched youtube endlessly yesterday and could not find the long preview for ep 13. How did you do it?!? And can you find the one for ep 14 and post that link, too? Hehehehe :-)

October 12, 2010 at 2:11 PM

October 12, 2010 at 7:04 AM

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I can see that everyone was >O to Hani in this Episode.. I am too...

Like someone had mentioned. This Manga was written years and years ago.. like 20 years ago and at that time if u ever read old mangas.. the girl characters were always weak, too focus on the boys and cry a lot. That is how Hani was in the manga. Only nowadays manga.. the girl characters are strong and well represent nowadays girls.. ^^

October 12, 2010 at 7:05 AM

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Thanks GF for the recap.

I disagree though that it's not always Hani who is trying to fit Seung Jo's mold. In the last 12 episode, Seung Jo has changed a lot while Ha Ni has remained the same besotted, SeungJo-circumnavigating girl. If she was my friend, I would slap her and literally shake some sense into her.

On the other hand, we all know the pull of a Seung Jo, the archetypal Mr Darcy. Maybe women are born masochist.

October 12, 2010 at 7:05 AM

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From being a girl? Why not just say from being a person? I'm not here to defend/detest her or anything, I just can't help to wonder...

What is so great of having many dreams after all?

This is Oh Ha Ni we're talking about. A simple thoughtless girl. She follows her heart too much than her thinking. She sees the world perhaps differently from the rest of us. Haven't we established that already?

And of course its a crystal clear that BSJ is her heart, her dreams, her desire, her soul. What do you expect? If you really want to enjoy the show, you need not to be so serious on the ones you raised upon yourself.

Grow up? Independent? Wew, such serious issue here... Suddenly, why do the needs to ridicule such gesture into something so negative? Haven't we seen from yesteryear, when husband and wife works together in a farm, or working in a shop, helping each other out. Perhaps the idea of someone supporting someone is so backdated. Time changes but ideal is here to stay.

It's old-fashioned, yes, but is it that bad?

Thus by saying that Oh Ha Ni single-purpose in life is so stupid, does this makes you a better person than her? Why?

Why do we need to pass judgment on others?

So what makes independence? Freedom? Having to choose? To stand on your two feet? Right. So if she chooses to stuck by BSJ, does this makes her less independent? She put himself first, unlike some of us who I don't know put money, career, hobby etc...

October 12, 2010 at 7:59 AM

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I agree with you! I don't think her choosing to support BSJ makes her less independent than someone who would choose their own "path in life"...BSJ *is* her path in life. Although, I can see why it rubs people the wrong way, especially those who strive to be independent from men I think her devotion is something rare and admirable.

Of course, I have seen all original versions so I understand that later on she does "mature" more, although that takes place much later on (later than this show will encompass) but really I find her the most likable of all the Kotoko editions. Ha ha! I think this story is just trying to show that you can follow your heart completely and conquer in the end, even if the prospect of "using your head" is necessary in real life, not enough people use their heart anymore.

October 12, 2010 at 8:18 AM

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Yeah...
I don't get it... I seriously don't get it...
Why is the male vs female is even an issue here
Please see her as a person, not by gender...

Perhaps you're right, nowadays ppl think with their heads instead of heart...
Sigh.. yeah we can't please everybody, right?
If the world sees things in one perspective, then there will be no war. SO PEACE OUT! ^^

October 12, 2010 at 9:30 AM

Your "BSJ is her life's path" made me think of Goo Jun Pyo in BoF. He tells Geum Jan Di (paraphrasing) "I've got the looks, the intelligence, the money...but I don't have YOU and that's what I need"

I don't like how Hani was portrayed in this episode, because I have my issues that way... However,looking at it with this point of view there are so many things lacking in both of them--they are literally "half-persons" and need the other.

(Although for me personally, I have no idea why one's emotional stunt would have anything to do with choosing majors or careers...TBH I've been there done that, the guy I liked followed me to the same uni, a la BSJ-OHN, but *I* chose my majors, my career. If he wanted to come along for the ride, fine...which was funny because we didn't have classes together but we had ETERNALLY LONG [6-8 hour] breaks between classes together. did that make us closer? Nope. I just started hanging with new friends.) :still steaming:

October 12, 2010 at 11:53 AM

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yeah but at least GJP did get away from her, for whatever reason, he went his separate ways with GJD and it was his choice. At the end they did end up together, but that's because one must realize that even though that other person makes you a better you, you are suppose to be able to stand by yourself. And BSJ totally has to earn HaNi's love, I mean b/c he hasn't and that's not okay.

October 12, 2010 at 12:00 PM

October 12, 2010 at 8:45 AM

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I have had similar thoughts!

"So what if OHN has made BSJ her dream, her ambition, etc. etc.?" It isn't the choice I would make -- hellz no -- but the great news about feminism/modernism/whateverism is that women in many parts of the world have real CHOICES. They aren't forced to live prescribed lives. They can decide if they want to be stay-at-home moms and wives (assuming the economics are there, of course). Men also benefit from this brave new world, but that's a rant and/or rave for another day.

One thing we feminists sometimes forget is that not all women are going to make the same choices. It may be hard to respect those other choices but we can certainly try.

It could be that for some of us, in this world, the most important thing we do is to love another human being to the best of our ability. If there is a way to put a positive spin on the OHN/Kotoko/Xiang Qin character it's this.

October 12, 2010 at 12:35 PM

October 12, 2010 at 1:51 PM

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DUDE. So true. So, so true, and no matter what choices people can make (and there are lots of them), this is the important critique of Ha-ni's reaction right here. If she is entirely dependent on someone else to create meaning for her, then... Who is the person inside her skin, after all?

October 12, 2010 at 3:16 PM

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No, being so dependent on someone is not healthy, no matter what you may think. I understand really caring about what someone thinks and etc (I'm not a robot here, and I've been a girl with really strong feelings for a person) but we go into again that there is a line, and she's crossing it.

October 12, 2010 at 9:12 PM

October 12, 2010 at 4:45 PM

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Well, it isn't BGJ's story; it's OHN's. I'm guessing that most of the commenters here are women, so naturally OHN's character resonates or repels us.

But to answer your question, yes, I would be worried about anyone who devoted his/her entire life to another human being--without having at the outset a mutual, reciprocal commitment of love, respect and devotion. The one-sided thing is dangerous for EVERYONE. When you're a teenager that's one thing; but when you're an adult... get thee to psychiatry.

If one of my guy friends was hung up on a woman with whom he did not have a relationship and who treated him like crap, I would tell him. In fact, my cousin falls for unavailable women on a routine basis so I have this conversation routinely.

October 12, 2010 at 9:13 PM

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The thirteen year old girl that lives inside of me is enjoying Playful Kiss. But only when I view it as entertainment.

Now if I were to dissect the psycho-social message that this drama seems to be sending I'd be appalled. I say seems to be sending because the program isn't over yet and until the height/weight appropriate lady sing, we can't be sure what the story is saying.

Feminism, Womanism, Vaginaism who cares? For me the truly destructive lesson in this drama is that it teaches young people (most probably girls) that indifference and hostility are no obstacle to building healthy romantic relationships if you persist and take whatever crap is shoveled your way. [Yes, believe it or not I'm enjoying the show when the comments on the blogs don't force me to deconstruct its message]

When we have access to BSJ's back story and we realize that he was betrayed by his Mother and friends early in life and therefore had difficulty trusting love and loving. What he wants most is unconditional love, someone who will love him no matter what [even if he shaves his legs and wears a dress]. OHN does that for him. Her persistence heals his psychic wound. But to heal him requires self-abnegnation on her part. We can applaud a fairytale character for doing so, but in real life that is unhealthy. Playful Kiss is a fairytale. OHN is a fairytale character, not a role model.

On saying that, this drama should be rated 'X' because young girls should be exposed to such destructive psychological behavior in their formative years. When you think about it is a kind of pornography for women passed their teens. The scenarios are satisfying on some levels, but the mature viewer knows it's not ever going to happen, and if it did, it wouldn't be as much fun as it looks on the screen.

October 14, 2010 at 8:53 AM

October 12, 2010 at 11:04 AM

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I love your point about choices, and I totally agree. Some women, like myself, want to choose to stay at home and devote their time and attention to their children and spouses. Does that make me any less than another woman who decides to pursue a career? The only difference between her and me is the value that society places on our choices; I would say both of us have an equal opportunity to continue to grow and progress as individuals, only in very different ways. Different, not better or worse.

October 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM

No one is saying that choosing to be a housewife is wrong, seriously, NO ONE is saying that.

What I think the issue is, is that she has never taken herself away from BSJ, not once. Are you saying that your world has only been about your husband since you were 16?

And it's not only that, has your husband ever treated you the way the BSJ did? I highly doubt he did, I don't think I would have such an issue with HaNi if BSJ wouldn't take her for granted. And sure he's fallen in love with her but that doesn't change the fact that no matter how badly he still treats her, she still revolves her life around him. What kind of message is that?

October 12, 2010 at 12:18 PM

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It is actually a strong one. Substitute BSJ with religion, politics, or any other "worthy" cause and I wonder if people would be so up in arms about her devotion. She is devoted, despite the odds. It rubs me the wrong way but I am not going to downplay that aspect of it. Most people would have given up, but we live in a throw away world where even "till death do you part" means "until I get sick of it". The real question is is love greater than pride? Is pride greater than your promise of lifetime commitment? How many people really have that much devotion and understanding inside of them? How many people wouldn't want to be loved that way?

October 12, 2010 at 12:58 PM

Exactly. I'm not going to say BSJ is abusive, and I don't think being a housewife is a stupid or lesser choice than having a career. BUT:

@acidlimp: i think the problem is not that she is devoted to Seunjo - there are many devoted characters out there who hold on despite the odds, but still look after themselves in the process.

You asked the question 'is love greater than pride?' I would contend that pride is not the issue here - self respect and personal responsibility is. It is 'pride', 'love' and duty that keeps millions of women (and men) in abusive relationships. Certainly, Oh Ha-ni is not in a physically abusive relationship right now, but people change. The fact is, this story seems to be telling people that valuing another person more than yourself is healthy, and awesome, so it doesn't matter what they do to you, or what you have to give up, as long as its for true love, or whatever.

Not every 'out of reach' guy is a Baek Seungjo - some of them are severely troubled and abusive - what sort of message is this story sending to women who are deeply in love with these men, in real life? That if they ignore the abuse they recieve, one day they will be happy?

Placing yourself at the whim of another is an entirely dangerous thing to do. I would say that it is possible to be devoted (even if you so wished, an adoring housewife) to another person, without having that person define your life.

October 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM

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@Eleven11 A lot religions preach that valuing others, or god, above yourself is awesome and great. Why is that acceptable above valuing another person the same way? How is she neglecting herself in favor of BSJ other than him not treating her like she wants? The fact that she wants him to treat her better is a good indication that she does have self-respect.

If someone is deeply in love very little is going to sway them off the course. Loving someone defines your life period, and you don't even have to go to Hani's extreme. Loving someone does not mean that they love you back or even treat you well. If this wasn't true on an almost universal level, country music writers would be out of business.

I'm always curious why people get so upset about "the message" that shows like these are sending. This is a fictional story of one couple. If someone can turn on the television or computer to watch this story then they have already been exposed to countless messages with opposite theories and ideologies. Abuse happened long before TV and will continue to happen no matter what pictures flicker on the screen.

October 12, 2010 at 1:35 PM

see how he smiles at his little brother,
or how he relents and helps out the class of students.

if he was an alcoholic abusive, or physically violent, or any one of those variants,
then i would say, run as fast as you can and don't look back.

but, seung jo is a guy who just doesn't seem to be able to express his feelings well (manifesting in a pretty mean tongue), and who views life in a mathematical, logical way.

and i guess, for a genius as he is, maybe it would have been TOO much of a stretch if he was also emotionally-well-balanced as well.

Beneath this though, lies a warm heart, but it needs someone to bring out and manifest, so that the warmness of his heart can complement the excellence of his brain, and hence utilize his intellectual skills for something that can benefit a lot more people.

his parents are worried for him as well. And i think his mother instinctively knew that hani was the person to bring about the 'redemption' in her son, something that nobody else could.

hani's character is what seung jo needs to marry his brain with his heart. And why i also agree with hani that he would be so much better/more beneficial as a doctor than developing computer games (sorry to all computer game afficiados ^^)

call hani pathetic or an insult to feminism, but her type of character is what drives his growth, just as he propels her to want to develop herself further.

it's sadomasochistic undoubtedly, and i also wish that he would at least be more careful with his choice of words, but somehow, for both of them who are both extremist in their own ways, it works.

and when he becomes a doctor and really helps save so many lives, hani is also his helpmate to make it happen.

maybe most of us would not want to put up with the 'meaness', but then again, a potential doc seungjo out there would have been lost to the world.
and if it takes an oh hani-esque person to redeem him, and that is her life goal, then that is perhaps her destiny.

so to me, this story is about redemption and growth and bringing about betterment of life, ideals. And how it took such a girl as this to bring that about.

October 12, 2010 at 2:26 PM

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@ Acidimp

This post is crazy long because you brought up some pretty heavy points.

I really hesitate to bring religion/politics/whatever into this, because it is such a complex thing. The key difference for me though, between loving another person more than yourself, and loving a god more than yourself, would be that a god is essentially an ideaology. There are usually set rules and doctrines about this ideaology set within an institution. Essentially, the ins and outs of loving this god are set down for you to read before you start to love the god more than yourself. You know what you're getting into, so to speak. I would also argue that this can also be dangerous, in its own way, but I think that would be getting off topic.

With loving a person, however, you do not have the same insight as to what you are getting into. Loving someone is a leap of faith. You put yourself out there in the hopes your feelings will be returned, and you can never hope to know every crevasse of a person's heart. People are constantly changing and developing - there is no disclaimer you can read that will tell you of the problems that may arise in a relationship with another person. The decision to enter into (or stay in) a relationship with someone you love, should therefore be made very seriously, with regard to the well being of both the other person AND yourself.

As for the 'love defines your life' thing, I think this is where you and I have very different ideas about what love is, and may mean we won't ever agree. I think love is hugely important, but nothing solely 'defines' my life. My life is defined by a myriad of different things - love for my family, friends, self, boyfriend, pets, studies, cheese etc. Sure these thing are all important in different ways and to different extents, but to say that love for my boyfriend means that they are no longer anything to be would be very wrong.

I'm writing such a huge comment, but I'll say one more thing on this topic - healthy relationships are based on more than love. You need compatability, mutual respect, timing, means, etc.

In terms of the 'why do people care about the message?' aspect of your post, the messages we receive from all around us inevitably shape our views. We are not brought up in a cultural vacuum, our ideas and beliefs didn't spring from nowhere. Saying that something does not matter because it is fiction is ridiculous. Fiction conveys ideas and ideas change peoples lives. It is important to identify what sort of ideas are being conveyed in pop culture so we can have conversations like this and decide whether we will be influenced by them or not.

I'll stop writing here because I suspect this reply is ridiculously long, and I have to go to uni. I hope I conveyed my beliefs well enough. Sorry for the wall of text, everyone!

October 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM

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Not to get too religious or serious but:

1 Corinthians 13: 4-7
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

October 12, 2010 at 4:49 PM

October 12, 2010 at 8:06 PM

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If I remember the past episodes, many times Hani realized that she is pathetic enough to follow Seong Jo and determined to forget him. She did try her best many times but it is Seong Jo's actions that made her melt and keep persevering with SJ. Even though he confused her sometimes, she has faith that SJ is more than what he shows outside and his actions tells that. I don't think Hani is stupid enough to not see even slightly, that SJ is changing. HE IS NOT TAKEN HER FOR GRANTED. He is appreciating her in his own way he knows. eg: SJ didn't complain a word about Hani's cooking and ate it, the smiles and simple gestures that he shows which bring her to giddiness,eg:commeded her effort after exams and tennis practice. And so much more even though they are subtle actions, Hani felt them. And for her, it's enough to be happy as long as she is with Seong jo. Seong jo completes her, made her try harder to accomplish things which she could not even imagine, eg:get to top 50, learned tennis. Other people didn't believe in her but her determination, with inspiration from Seong Jo, she achieve lots and she will achieve more because of Seong Jo.

October 12, 2010 at 9:50 PM

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Eleven11 I brought it up to make a point because it is such a passionate and personal belief and one that is not easily influenced or swayed...very much like love. Religion is more widely practiced and accepted but it does not mean it is correct or even steady. You are right, I don't want to get into a religious debate. My point is that both religion and love require a huge leap of faith. Relgiion may be well documented but it is documented by others, not your own personal experiences or emotion, therefore the effects of devoting yourself solely are just as mysterious. Suicides, murder, war, persecution, fanaticism...all of these were results of mindless devotion to the so-called well documented idealogoy.

(Just on a personal note I find it disturbing that people are more willing to love an idea or a belief more than the people those beliefs are supposed to uplift. Isn't that where all the trouble starts? Aren't we all god, aren't we all the universe...are we not all supposed to the divine mixture of good and evil?)

You are right about the defining life thing, I should have used a better word. Influence or shape but not totally define. ;) I disagree with the messages shaping our lives bit though. We receive all sorts of conflicting and erroneous messages if they all shaped our lives we would be a hot mess. Instead, we choose what shapes our lives based on our inner foundation. The power to shape is all a part of what we choose to believe and what we choose to discard so it's not accurate to blame the messenger or the message.

October 12, 2010 at 8:48 AM

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Sorry to go all blah-blah-babble on everyone, but remember (in Episode 7) Hera's mini-dissert on Sartre? Read up on his views on selfhood, radical freedom, and love.

Interestingly instructive for the candyfluff that is PK! ^^ It even dovetails with the pot-lid (Self vs Other) metaphor! Love for Sartre is pretty much always an exercise in futile self-deception, where the self seeks itself through others--Hani is THAT GIRL.

But PK wants to disprove Sartre (lol, ok, maybe only subtextually)--after all, Hera (who spouts the Sartre) is not supposed to be the "heroine" here. But I think PK would be a lot more successful at this if it were more obvious that SJ being her project in life is a choice she consciously, expressly makes. Sartre would still call it bad faith, but Hani would know otherwise--even if it grates on all of our post-feminist nerves!

October 12, 2010 at 9:21 AM

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I’m not going to go into further on Sartre philosophy; especially that, one will lose its identity to its partner. I’m not agreeing or rejecting it entirely. But I’d rather say that one’s identity is enhanced/ improved. If it’s lost, then perhaps there’s no identity to begin with; much concur to Sartre idea.

October 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM

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Another thing I noticed was the cultural context. This "live for another" lofty ideal is very Japanese to me. It files under their other mythical/analogical cultural ideals--chado (tea ceremony, which I've practiced as a hobby for years--lots of hand gestures... and good tea! 'S all I've got to say) and kodo (incense ceremony--something which boggles my mind on all directions).

The subtext at hand is: because of Hani's lack in doing everything well (see anime, and how the dad lists off all the things she could not do when Ire-kun asks her hand--I swear this is the only thing I watched in the anime) her only choice is to live for someone else. She's got nothing to give but of herself (I vaguely remember her saying something like that to BSJ "you've got so much to give...I don't have anything...I'm going to live for fun/gonna find my way through university.")

It hurts me as a modern woman, yes, it does. But there is something admirable to her gutsy-ness to keep on going after him. Let look at it this way: If this were real life, there would have been more issues between them. And the fact that even though BSJ does feel for her, in the end it might not come true. :shrugs: but the drama and script is written that way, so we know she ends up with him.

I've been through/felt/seen other love stories that mirror this...and most of the time, people don't get together. That's how the dice roll...

October 12, 2010 at 10:00 AM

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That's interesting to know about Japanese ideology. But, see, the cultural context can only really apply to the manga. As an adaptation in the modern (and Korean) context, I think the criticism is totally fair.

October 12, 2010 at 10:08 AM

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And that's why it's off putting to some. Because the script of PK relies heavily on the Japanese turn of events.

I was just reading, some sort of article on how Korean women, and subsequently men, are getting married later because the women want to have a career first. With this thought as I viewed this episode, I was already anticipating the backlash because of the "living for another" ideal.

Not bashing post-feminism, but it's true, we women feel entitlement of our own freedoms and decisions. Something Hani, right now, is not exhibiting. And I can presume will not happen if this drama does continues to draw upon the original manga.

October 12, 2010 at 9:47 AM

Haha the irony. I wonder if the writers did a little bit of self-aware parody.

I personally find it problematic that her choice to throw away her opinion on her own future keeps getting equated to love. It's really not.

If PK really wanted to disprove Satre, it wouldn't destroy her Self as she finds love - it would celebrate the co-existence of love and her own unified Self rather than indulge in such an act of ontological violence wherein she is consumed by the Other - and thereby loses her 'Self'.

Instead, shouldn't PK seek disprove that love is just an unhealthy co-dependency?

October 12, 2010 at 10:17 AM

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LOL, ditto here, clearly! But that's "love" under the Sartre rubric. I have no love for it, though---and ITA yours is the most sensible track; unfortunately, it doesn't seem very Hani to me. Still, I hope something like it gets redeemed later on, maybe in the YouTube mini-episodes, along with along with some delicious tables-turning for SJ, heh! ^^

October 12, 2010 at 1:53 PM

October 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

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I absolutely agree with you. We, as women, are so smart these days. We don't love with our heart anymore. We are like Hare, where we love with our mind. What's in it for us?

Loving with abandonment like Hani only happens during the teenage years, where there's no calculation. I think that's why I like this KR version, they made Hani so normal. BTW- Seungjo is really a genius because he knows what he is lacking and he respected Hani for her ability to love. Believe it or not, most men do appreciate the unconditional love ability of women. In ep. 13, we see that he is willing to give up his dream of becoming a doctor, but he won't give her up.

P.S. We call Duckie a sweetheart when he blindly loves Hani yet we call Hani stupid for blindly loving Seungjo. Maybe we have double standard afterall.

October 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM

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Hmm, but we only really had the big call out for Ha Ni this episode when she so blatantly based herself around the guy by essentially saying she just wants to be his accessory in life. When she blindly chased after him, I think it was pretty much forgiven in recognition of her teenaged mindset.

Duckie has been called out too, if you look in the comments, but he also didn't drop his ambition as a cook for Ha Ni.

October 12, 2010 at 11:00 AM

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He didn't drop his ambition, it's true, but then again, he also had one, whereas Ha-ni doesn't. I might not like it too much, but I also don't think that it's illogical for her to decide her own life path around Seung-jo's -- at this point, she has nothing else pulling her in another direction. It might not be entirely wise of her, but I think it does make sense, given her characterization.

October 12, 2010 at 11:41 AM

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I agree with all your points...
but i'm just pointing out that even though Duckie aleady was a decent cook, he started to seriously learn how to cook to be in charge of Hani's restaurant in the first place... so his dreams also revolved around Hani... to provide her comfort in her life and take her father's restaurant... and then, he started to really be serious about cooking...

If we look at this, then who is to say that Hani will not become serious about nursing... she might have started it to be of help to seungjo but hardworking as she is, she would give her all for nursing like duckie does with cooking.

October 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM

October 12, 2010 at 3:34 PM

October 12, 2010 at 4:30 PM

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"If we look at this, then who is to say that Hani will not become serious about nursing… she might have started it to be of help to seungjo but hardworking as she is, she would give her all for nursing like duckie does with cooking."

Wouldn't it mean more, in a piece of fiction that little girls will no doubt idolize, if we didn't need to bank on the what ifs because we understood that the heroine is capable enough to use her mind for herself?

As of now, basing it on what they've given us, we don't really get that impression. So speculation doesn't mean a lot.

And, okay. It's not like Seung Jo is just her motivation to do something worthwhile. It's more like she'll just do whatever Seung Jo wants, just to be with him. That gives the corrolary message that girls should give up everything in a 'pure' love so that they can be considered worthwhile. Also, that it is enough to not want anything but to please a man. Isn't that squicky? Oh, and to deny the male/female division in fiction is just willful ignorance. It exists.

Also before people get mad, I actually like PK. It's really cute. I just personally also happen to find it, in some ways, pretty offensive. Just my opinion, you're free to disagree, etc. etc.

October 12, 2010 at 8:14 PM

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*It’s more like she’ll just do whatever Seung Jo wants, just to be with him. That gives the corrolary message that girls should give up everything in a ‘pure’ love so that they can be considered worthwhile. Also, that it is enough to not want anything but to please a man. Isn’t that squicky?*

Ok I get ur point but SJ doesn't want her to do as he wants her. For most things, she has done it without his consent. She decided on her dreams on her own. And what she's doing isn't because solely to please him, but to please herself too, to help, to be there, to share his ups and downs. Isn't normal for us to help when we see someone is in trouble. In OHN case that someone is who she deeply in love with. So it's abnormal, now? Why?

*Oh, and to deny the male/female division in fiction is just willful ignorance. It exists.*

Willful ignorance? huh... That is the kind of perception I want to diminish.

October 12, 2010 at 9:25 PM

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sorry... quick reply cuz it might turn into a rant but i think we're dramatizing this a bit... i dont think becoming a nurse equates to giving up everything for love... it's not as if she wants to sell drugs or something... it's more like improving yourself because of love for the one that you love.

October 12, 2010 at 11:03 PM

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"For most things, she has done it without his consent. She decided on her dreams on her own."

Hm, but I think the lack of choice (implicating identity) is the very issue. She completely gives up her choices to Seung Jo so far as she says she'll just follow him blindly. I'll concede that she has agency enough to follow her dream - but then when her dream is only to give up her agency to him, it's really not that admirable.

"it’s more like improving yourself because of love for the one that you love."

She's not simply improving herself, she's moulding herself entirely to his whims. According to what she says right now, anyway - we'll see how that goes.

Haha. I'm just going to agree to disagree. I don't think anybody is really going to change anybody else's perception, and that's okay! It was fun debating. :)

October 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM

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I want to call BS on not loving with our hearts. I want a freaking career and to be independent, and part of what I'll take into account when getting into a serious relationship will be THOUGHT through. Because I'm sorry to disappoint you, but this whole love/passion w/o thinking is not what keeps a relationship alive. And what is in it for me? A healthy normal relationship.

And my problem with Ha Ni revolving around BSJ is that wants to be with a guy who only just (after years of living around each other) is kind of nice to her. Sure we get snippets of him being sweet, but that doesnt add up. And perhaps he just can't express himself and all that crap, but that doesnt excuse his attitude. If it was your sister who wanted to forever live around a guy who has treated her the way BSJ treats OHN, how would you feel?

And sure it's just a character, but I happen to love Ha Ni, because she is so much more wanting her life to be just wife of some guy who can't appreciate her.

And the thing with duckie (even though he is annoying to be, so f'in there), is that he does have another life, which is cooking, and he's not the main character so of course we are not going to know and connect with him as we do OHN

October 12, 2010 at 1:25 PM

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I actually feel really sorry for Ha Ni here. The trouble with BSJ is even though he's mean, he'll be really sweet for a couple glorious seconds. Every time she's willing to give up on him or starts to second guess herself, he does something that makes her think all that effort is worth it. It's weird, but the first thing I thought of when I read your post was that it was like an abusive relationship. I know it's not even coming near to the severity of the comparison, but it has the same cycle: she gets attached to him, he's mean (just plain cruel in some cases), she thinks about leaving, he does something to make her want to stay, wash and repeat. And now she's had her life revolve around him so much that she feels that there's nothing left of her except for what she does for him.

I think if Ha Ni had even a clue about what she wanted to do with her life, if she had even half of the passion she feels toward BSJ, she would be working towards that. But she doesn't, so she bases her goals off of what she can do for him. And maybe if SHE felt better about that, I would too. But it's obvious that she doesn't feel good about that (just listen to her voice and how ashamed it sounds when she tells BSJ her goals), and I think that's the problem I have with the whole situation. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to support someone and to be with them to help them out, but she's not happy with it and she shouldn't settle for something she's not really happy with.

October 12, 2010 at 3:23 PM

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You really put that awesomely. I've seen abusive relationships in many different forms and although this is nowhere near the extremity, it's still there. And that scares me, that people think it's okay to devote her life to him (like he is a god) and be in this slightly manipulative relationship.

But at the end of the day, she is ashamed and she isn't happy about it, because it's not the best situation for her to love a guy so much when he doesn't love her back (or at least acts in such ways.

October 12, 2010 at 11:58 AM

i really like this sentence:
"In ep. 13, we see that he is willing to give up his dream of becoming a doctor, but he won’t give her up."

what is love?
what makes love, love?

what i really like about PK is how it shows 2 absolutely different people grow and mature together,
and change for the better,
dare to dream dreams they previously never believed/ thought of.

and bear in mind, they're just young un's, barely 20.

i think back when i was 20, and i was pretty lost myself on what i wanted in life.

i think the merit for a companion like Hani is how she is unreservedly behind you all the way, always got your back, always thinking for your benefit, able to see your strengths better than you can see yourself.

and the merit for a companion like BSJ is how he encourages you to improve, to do better than what you thought you could achieve, to help you when you're unable to do certain things with your own limited abilities.

sometimes, things can happen that change the course of life.
but, what i found so touching was how even though plans/dreams change, the love never changed.
it was faithful, unwavering.

at my grand 'ole age now, i would like to wish that i could still look forward to a love like this.

October 12, 2010 at 11:12 AM

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Great discussion guys! I love it. For a drama that is often dismissed as a pluff, there sure is so much more going on here that what meets the eye.

I see both sides of the argument. But Hani is Hani. This is who she is and she never pretended to be otherwise (unlike someone else we know who acts all High-and-Mighty but is in fact doing her own stalking, bidding her time and finally sharpening her claws).

Also, we have to remember that this is a girl who grew up without a mother. Hani didn't have any other female influence in her life besides her grandmother who's probably very old-fashioned and not career-oriented. So who can blame her if all she wants to do is to be there for the person she loves the most? Who are we to judge her if this makes her happy?

Yes, if she were my sister or my friend, I'd probably smack her in the head and give her a long lecture on self-love and self-preservation. But that's just me. Because I grew up learning the value of independence. I was taught early on, not by words but by actions, that we should never gauge our worth through others, be it a stanger, a friend or a loved one. Which is why, I can never be Hani. And why, again, this makes her unique.

And it is precisely this quality of hers, this tenacity, that made Seungjo notice her in the first place. Had she given up early on when he gave her a D-, do you think he would have given her a second glance? I don't think so. But because she is sticking to him like a gum no matter how mean he is to her and how much he trampled on her pride, he is puzzled by her. In his mind, he is probably thinking, "Who is this slip of a girl and what does she see in me that she keeps following me around?" She makes him see things that he normally won't see. Which again, is a testament to how complimentary they are.

And yes, I definitely agree that gender should not be an issue her. Hani, Haera and Joon Gu -- all them are just following their hearts, what they believe is worth fighting for. I don't think its fair to applaud one and ridicule the other. ;)

October 12, 2010 at 11:29 AM

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Hm, about SeungJo's thought of HaNi's unconditional love... Well, I read his part of thoughts in the translated Baek Seung Jo diary, and I think, that would be a really great insight into SeungJo's head.

October 12, 2010 at 12:40 PM

October 12, 2010 at 11:22 AM

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I agree!!! I mean, sure, if somebody has their own purpose turns out to be: finding a career and such. But, dreaming of being with the one that you love and actually 'sacrificing' a damn lot to match "the love of my life" (and maybe in this case, Oh Ha Ni is not sacrificing, but can be considered as Developing) should be appreciated and adored.

Her dream was to be with Seung Jo, and help him in all the way that she could. So, why is it wrong?

Being independent is great. But I think, man and woman are made to be dependent and supporting each other.

October 12, 2010 at 11:38 AM

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My problem is that BSJ is still taking her for granted. I wouldnt have a problem if she decided to revolve her life around him (although it would still be a bit weird to me), if he had already changed. Don't tell me he is treating her okay, just because he sometimes is nice to her (oooo, wow, he's actually decent sometimes, lets swoon over that).

And that is where the real annoyed-ness with this character lies. I love HaNi, she's is spirited and optimistic, but why she continues to want her life to be spent with a person who doesn't treat her okay, makes me dislike her. So yeah, I do think she should become independent from BSJ, at least until he realizes that his attitude towards her needs to change. I dont think it's okay for her to want to be okay with someone who treats her that way. I like BSJ, as a character and I know he has developed, but she needs to as well. She should GROW UP and see that she deserves to be treated better.

And if you think that it's okay for her to love and wants to revolve her life around someone who is obviously taking her for granted, then I think you need to reevaluate what constitutes a healthy relationship and love.

October 12, 2010 at 12:18 PM

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This story is about two very different people who made for each other. Each possesses quality that each other lacks. I’m not just saying that it’s a complimentary but also tolerance and acceptance that they have for one another.

And that for every special person, no matter how genius/ unique/ troubled/ dysfunction/ thoughtless/ weak/ strong/ ugly you are, there’s always going to be your matching person exist out there. This is in fact a lesson I’ve learned well in here.

Oh Ha Ni is a girl with bright personality and always cheerful. She is considered thoughtless as she always act based on her heart and not by her mind. She acts first without thinking much of the consequences. "But she has that strong attitude that sees life as her little playground; she plays, she falls, she cries, she gets up and plays again. Nothing can ever bring her down. Come what may." (quote from CHshe). And that is her strength. She has that never-ending pull force that will draw BSJ in enjoying his life; thus into her life as well. Thus, makes him the center of everything in her life.

And then we have Baek Seung Jo, a genius with social inept and has huge problem in expressing his feelings. Somehow his action was often misunderstood by others. Although he does understand that sometimes his actions were being interpreted as mean and cold but he always acts based on his logic, honest in his own calculative way. Sometimes, it’s too honest that it hurts other’s people feelings. He has that force to drive people to their limits. That is his specialty. And unbeknownst to him, he drives himself out in the open too, well once in a while. All thanks to Oh Ha Ni.

And after all they’ve been through; they learned to accept each other for who they are. BSJ accepted her for who she is; a person who is thoughtless; who never gives up regardless any consequences. Same as for Oh Ha Ni, she accepted him for who he is; a person who doesn’t express his feelings well/ much out in the open. Each will tolerate the quality that the other person lacks and both understand that neither is something that needs to be changed completely but to be improved. And what with these two lacks, somehow it will make a long-lasting relationship work. Although it may seems like an ill-match couple for others, but its functioning perfectly for those two. Hey, nobody is perfect in this world. And vanity is something that you’d wear to get other’s people recognition.

So can you really be true to yourself and have others accept you for who you really are?

I’m not saying that BSJ is never going to change. But he is who he is; a person who lacks expression. And he’s always going to be that person. He sees the world without interest. But with Oh Ha Ni, he was drawn to her like solving a puzzle. Why is this girl always fixated by me? No matter what I do to her. Is she for real? Although it seems that OHN is a bit clingy to hold on to BSJ most of the time, but that is exactly what BSJ needed; if not he’d be alone all by himself, wrapped around his own created wall, thinking that life is all that easy. He needs that sort of person to keep knocking on his wall and break it open so he can go out and enjoy his life, and share it with others as well.

October 12, 2010 at 3:25 PM

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which would be fine except that he only lacks affectionate expression, he's very good at being mean. I can understand that he can't express himself (I have a hard time with affection) but that doesn't make it okay, because I feel he brings her down a lot. So she's willing to accept him like that, but that doesn't make it okay.

I do believe people help each other grow, help become better versions of themselves, but these two are nowhere near the stage where they are more beneficial than poisoness.

October 12, 2010 at 6:54 PM

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So what if it doesn't okay?

What is okay, anyway?
Let me rephrase, what is normal anyway? Who sets the bar? We the public. We see. We judged. If something is beyond the ordinary; If something really bothers us; If something goes not according to our expectations or set of values; What would we do? We singled them out. We punished them. We called them names.

Looks like you never going to be satisfying with anything, but that's life.

We can go at it again and again, but no matter what you seems want to take this negatively. I on the other hand see things in a positive tune. That's why it never ends.

For once in a while. I really want to see the world in the eyes of the children. Sometimes being an adult really tires me down with all the responsibility, complex, tension, problems, issues, etc etc... sigh never-ending

October 12, 2010 at 7:45 PM

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"Ah What is normal anyway?"

Nice. I heard you. Another possible definition is that "a normal" is someone who conforms to the predominant behavior in a society. This can be from various reasons such as simple imitative behavior, deliberate or inconsistent acceptance of society's standards, fear of humiliation or rejection etc...

Its too soon to judge things. And even if it doesn't add up to your standard of a healthy relationship, others may see it differently.

The level of tolerance that you have probably too low for you to accept such different/ abnormality in values that you believe in so strongly. Just don't take things so negatively, try to see things in a lighter mood. You may find it differently. If not then, I just accept you for who you are. And in return, just accept them for who they are, no matter how different they seem.

October 12, 2010 at 10:10 PM

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You know, f you for telling me that I'll never be satisfied anon, you dont know me. I don't expect him to be some lovey dovey guy, I do expect him to show her some f'in respect and for her to WANT RESPECT from him.

Is it so wrong to want equal RESPECT in friendships/relationships. He constantly makes her feel like shit, constantly reminding her that she's dumb and annoying. And yeah he's changing, and I see that, but for her never to hold him accountable for the way he mistreats is is wrong. For her to stand there and just take all his jerkiness and you treat her like some martyr, it's not okay.

And damn right, I'm not going to sugar coat this, because what you are doing is IGNORING all the shit going on. I love the character HaNi and until now, I was all for her feelings for him, because I felt that she was growing to, and maybe would realize that he needed to treat her better. Being in love with someone, wanting to put them first never makes it okay for them to treat you badly

And don't tell me he doesn't treat her badly, he makes her feel bad all the time.

@Nameless: again, this is not so much the fact that he is not some lovey dovey guy, but the fact that he can make her feel bad about things. Whether or not his behavior is normal is not really the case here, whether or not he shows enough respect for her is the case, and whether or not she should demand respect. And what is with me being told that I'm not okay with abnormality. Don't call being a jerk just not being normal, whoever you are, whatever you prefer, you always have to respect your partner, you respect your friends and family. This makes for healthy relationships and I won't ignore the lack of respect here.