Well for me, watching seriously my first TdF it has turned me off the tour and really I am loosing my ethusisam fast for tours period. Is the TdU going to be a bunch of drug cheats as well? Who knows? Is today's stage winner going to be clean? How do you know? Is Cadel clean and on it goes. The doubts are there now.

I doubt I will bother to watch the rest. What is the point? You get excited watching what you think is a great ride, a great challenge of man against man to only find out it was a total farce the next morning.

The point now is that those cheats and suspected cheats are being severely punished. It's just as satisfying to see these as seeing a good finish.

My enthusiasm for the Tour has just been rejuvenated by these latest developments.

If you don't believe Cadel and the remainders are clean, then you really shouldn't be voting in any of the elections as all politicians lie, or at least twist and stretch the truth as far as possible like what Rasmussen tried to do.

Don't let it get to you that way Andrew, though I understand your feelings. Le Tour is just going through the clean up process. It'll be messy for a few years and it'll be painful, but we'll see a stronger tour for it, and the men we'll remember will be the honest ones.

sogood wrote:The point now is that those cheats and suspected cheats are being severely punished. It's just as satisfying to see these as seeing a good finish.

I guess you and I have will have to disagree. I am talking from the perspective of what I watched last night, two days before and so on. The whole stage is now invalid for me.

If you don't believe Cadel and the remainders are clean

Ahh, I didn't say he wasn't BUT I don't know and neither do you! None of us know about the status of any of the lead riders and in light of, what three riders out, it raises serious questions.

It means at least for me there are questions now about every stage and those doubts will be there when I watch it, if I do. There are now doubts apparently about the new leader. That is disappointing.

As to making you more enthusiastic that is great, but to me you are kidding yourself IMO. The TdF organisers new about Ramusen and did nothing. What was the line? Oh, not tested positive If they where as serious as you reckon, then he wouldn't have been there in the first place. The Tour's credibility was on the line .... nothing was done by the organisers and it took the team to take action in what Stage 16!

The problem is the Tour needs to attract new supporters like myself. If I am anywhere near reflective of how new supporters feel then this is NOT good. If it retains existing supporters such as yourself that is good but not sufficient for growth or sustainability.

Regards
Andrew

Last edited by Aushiker on Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Aushiker wrote:I guess you and I have will have to disagree. I am talking from the perspective of what I watched last night, two days before and so on. The whole stage is now invalid for me.

I stayed up last night and watch the stage as well as earlier Pyrenees stages. I would say that this now is very satisfying. The hard yakka put in by Evans has now been validated. Like SBS's external commentator said post race, Evans was seen to be working hard for his position while Rasmussen performed beyond belief. For me, the race was exciting even just following Evans. With Ras booted out, I am very happy for Evans and the fairness of the race.

At the end of the day, one has to have faith in something. I came in skeptical on some and those dodgy characters have been booted out. Life goes on.

sogood wrote: I came in skeptical on some and those dodgy characters have been booted out. Life goes on.

That is where we are different. I don't have the background that you do, I am new to the sport, new to the Tour ... to me staying up and watching each night has been exciting (and a challenge) and even though we only get a part of the race here I have enjoyed it, taken it at face value pretty much. So you see I don't know about these riders dodgy backgrounds etc so I don't know who to have faith in and not, so when the proverbial happens it is so much worse.

But should I? Isn't this what cleaning it up is all about? Known dodgy riders shouldn't be there in the first place IMO.

I hope Cadel is genuine and I agree he looked it last night, but does that mean every rider has to look that way to be considered genuine? Crikey, I feel sorry for them. That must be one hell of a pain barrier to get through.

Sorry for my rant ... very disappointed this morning. It was hard going to stay up last night .... only to have it taken away this morning.

Aushiker wrote:But should I? Isn't this what cleaning it up is all about? Known dodgy riders shouldn't be there in the first place IMO.

They're fighting a culture as well as behaviour, and it's not just the riders (they're just the ones getting caught). It'd be hard for a domestique to stay clean if the manager expects a workload that can only be handled if doped and the manager is making the dope available. An analogy would be long distance truck drivers facing impossible schedules - taking pills isn't right but if it's the only way of keeping your job ... trouble is, people get hurt. The stupid part about doping is that it does kill, but short term advantage is a powerful lure to those inclined to take the easy route.

Another problem is the UCI, the mob that run it. Sadly they aren't paragons of administrative virtue.

I am, at the same time ( ), very disappointed and somehow relieved by this latest news.

As others have said this whole tour has been a series of ups and downs: watching what seems like a great performance one night (Like Vinko on stage 14 or Rasmussun last night) only to hear the "bad news" the next morning.

On the other hand as europa has pointed out, at least it shows that the sport, and, in particular, the teams are getting serious about this. While I am not naive enough to think that this is a problem that will ever be completely removed from the sport, I do think that things are on the right path.

I think that one of the things that cycling has going for it is the team structure of the sport. Although there is no doubt it is the teams that have been a big part in the "doping culture" I think it is the team, rather than the international and national bodies that are the key to sorting this out. Do not get me wrong I do not think this is because of any great alturism or concern for the sport on the part of the teams and their managment - it is all about the money! No doubt the sponsors are a big part of this teams apparent change in attitude.

I have mixed feelings about Rassy. Before last night I didn't think he had the guts to get to the end in yellow, and was very concerned about the rumours that were flying about him. After the stage last night, I kinda changed my mind. It was a brilliant ride and, not only did he respond to Contador, but he watched and pushed at the right time to break him.

I learnt a lot about cycling tactics last night and it made me love the sport even more. Cheat or not, there was a lesson to be learnt watching the cat and mouse play.

This morning when I heard Rassy had not just avoided the doping controls, but had lied (twice) about his whereabouts, floored me. I wasn't surprised I must admit, but was concerned. I am now pretty sure he doped (as opposed to just an "administrative mistake") and was avoiding them.

That the team has kicked him out was fantastic. Yeah, realise that sponsorship $ was probably the driver, but to have the balls to do that to your top rider, who looked to be in yellow to the end, has not tested positive etc, is great for the sport.

Many will say it is about time, but remember, the revelations only came to public light in the middle of the tour...not the start.

I don't like believing any gossip until something positive comes out - they are still trying to get Armstrong, yet after having read his books, I don't believe he ever doped, or ever would. I can understand his comeback and think he is an incredible person for it. (happy to lend these to you Andrew if you want your faith in the dream restored).

For me, the gossip has been confirmed and Rassy deserves to go. I wonder if we will ever know the full story though? Somehow I doubt it.

uMP2k wrote:I think that one of the things that cycling has going for it is the team structure of the sport...

Money talks!

In the beginning, the big money lured those drug cheats to cheat. In the end, the credibility and the bad image associated with drug cheats has affected those big $$$ sponsors. I can just imagine sponsor like Rabobank, whose company image is based on trust and stability would have put on enormous pressures behind the scene on the team management to clean up. Those publicly listed companies can't afford to have their image tarnished by booing fans along the route. At the end of the day, there is such a thing called "bad publicity".

They mentioned that Vino has to pay 1 years salary and that was 1 Million Euro.

The money goes into a fund which pays for the testing.

Let's get the facts right and not be like journalists, Rasussen was withdrawn from the event and sacked by his team for breaking team rules and lying to them about his where abouts (Italy when he said Mexico) and he hasn't actually failed a drug test.