Win seat first?

Warren Kinsella is of the opinion that Federal Liberal leadership hopefuls should have a seat in Parliament first before running. That would eliminate Deborah Coyne, David Bertschi and Martha Hall-Findlay.

127 Responses to Win seat first?

“So which is it?Is being an “outsider” an advantage or disadvantage? Or does it merely depend on the spin of the individual’s campaign manager?”

You’d be a good journalist Joanne. Asking questions we already know the answer for.

In Kinsella’s case it’s “spin” all the way when it suits.

Not surprising to me that with WK allegedly on the outs with the LPOC that he’s spin the way he has in his column yet support Pupatello, who doesn’t have a seat. Perhaps he sees a potential role in a Pupatello provincial campaign? That would explain it.

You’d be a good journalist Joanne. Asking questions we already know the answer for.

Ha! Well it was meant to be a rhetorical question. 😉

I wasn’t aware that WK was supporting Pupatello, but that makes his column all the more disingenuous. She says she won’t bring back the Legislature til she has a seat!! So basically she’s planning to hold the Ontario Legislature hostage.

yes, pretty much although she could call a by-election as soon as possible. If she wins that is. Duncan’s already said he’d giver her his seat I believe. She’s better liked in Windsor than Duncan IMO so she’s have no problem getting a seat.

According to Guy’s personal Twitter acct, he’s back working in law. His personal Twitter account seems current, discussing such things as his access to info complaint and US issues. Check it out here http://www.twitter.com/guygiorno.

Thing is, unlike WK who is in politics 24/7, 365 days a year, Giorno is simply making a living in the private sector — until called upon!

Jack Layton did not have a seat in Parliament when he won as leader of the NDP, if I remember correctly.

Trudeau is up against Martha’s strategist ‘Carter’. He was the brains for the Nenshi (calgary mayor) and REDford come from behind wins.
Carter called Trudeau ‘fluffy’, so this must be Kinsella’s response …’drop out’

In 1990 Kinsella’s hero Chretien won the Liberal leadership.It took 6 months before he was elected to a seat.
Kinsella exemplifies the Liberal party and progressive movement philosophy “Do as I say not as I do”perfectly.
No wonder Sun Media keeps him and his new girlfriend employed as the Liberal spokespunks.

Yes, they were.
It’s worth noting that both John Turner and Brian Mulroney became their party leaders before gaining a seat in Parliament.
What Warren’s doing is trying to discourage the “lesser-knowns” from distracting from the perceived front-runner (Trudeau) and the most-likely alternative (Garneau). The problem is, this is the sort of scenario that’s most in-line with the conventional narrative that Liberals like him like to follow.

Does anyone know if a leader of a party has ever been elected (by party delegates) without having a seat and then immediately become Premier or Prime Minister? (i.e. because the previous leader was stepping down.)

This ties into what Frances was talking about. Do we have a precedent where someone would just step into the role of Premier or Prime Minister without even having a seat?

One has to feel for the Ont voter trying to explain the political landscape to an outsider.
An unpopular government tries for a third term and comes up one seat shy. They then entice an opposition member with a lucrative government posting, forcing a byelection which they lose. Next the leader suspends parliament to avoid an unravelling scandal over seat buying. He resigns as Premier pending the results of a leadership contest. The Party attempts to distance itself from the scandal by appointing a new leader from outside, with no seat, who automatically becomes Premier. The hapless voters are expected to rally behind this leader who represents change and vote for the Party in the upcoming election.
This seems like a tall order, but one the operatives in the Liberal Party hope to accomplish. Their contempt for the intelligence of voters is reason enough remove them from office.

Martin yes! Contempt thy name is Liberal!
Meanwhile in other “Fluffy news”
Justin says, as is breathlessly reported on CBC
“It is too early to declare victory”
He clearly has no sense of irony, is he not the only actual candidate so far?
As late as Saturday he is the only candidate listed on the Liberal website.http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/11/17/montreal-liberal-leader.html
I hope the Liberals and NDP continue their scuffle, if the left keep drinking each others bathwater Canadians win big time.

With a federal Liberal leadership “contest” and an Ontario Liberal leadership “contest” with former MP’s and MPP’s elbowing each other we confusion central.
Wonder if Mark Holland will sashay into one of the rings any day now?

The wk lad is a fraud. His comments last week about the “conservative thugs” attempting to use Revenue Canada to stifle comments by a Mennonite Publication.
He then went on to state that his “partner’ has roots in the mennonite [anabaptist] confession. The partner’s background seems to have endowed the laddio, wk, with immense insights and truths re. my mennonite brethren.

2.) wk also seems to have conveniently dis-recalled the rifle-toting Mennonite communities in Ukraine, as they banded together to protect themselves from the madness of one Nestor Makhno, a local anarchist – circa. 1918. They called the acts of these armed mennonite band “Selbstschutz,” or “self-protection.”

NOW, Back to our main topic.

wk froths favourably *for* Sandra P, and boils over, spewing hatred and gerrard K. [herein, and ever after, referred to by the boy wk, as mister “nicehair, great teeth.”
I often mistake that as code for the doffin.

There is a difference, is there not, between a person being elected leader of a political party which is in opposition and a person who, upon election, assumes the Premiership of a province? In the former case, I would think that a seat in the relevant house would be desirable but not essential; in the latter, the new Premier definitely should already have a seat. Which means my position is totally opposite Mr Kinsella’s.

Just what Ontario needs to top off McGuinty’s mess, a leader who has not be elected by the people to head a minority government!

There appears to be no rule in place to prevent this from happening. The only way to deal with it lies with the opposition, they would have to vote an immediate non-confidence and head to the polls. Given the state of affairs of the province the Liberal government needs to be booted immediately regardless of whether they choose a person who holds a seat.

If the very fact McGuinty has prorogued to give himself freedom to act like he has a majority doesn’t stir the masses there is no hope.

“There is a difference, is there not, between a person being elected leader of a political party which is in opposition and a person who, upon election, assumes the Premiership of a province?”

There is indeed. And that’s why both Pupatello and Kennedy should be forced to state now, ahead of the convention, that if they were to win, they will call a snap election, regardless of the circumstances related to where the LP lies in the polls in Jan. Otherwise neither one would have any legitimacy as a premier, trying to govern over all Ontarians without having been elected by a single voter in the province while making policy decisions and funding announcements that impact our lives — and nakedly seen as doing so to try and improve fortunes for their party ahead of the next election.

The claims made by both that they are uneasy about prorogation and how it has been handled will be thoroughly destroyed when one or the other tries to govern for as long as they can until the opps defeat them with a motion of non-confidence. Prorogation to blunt attempts by the opps to investigate a cover-up is seen as one thing, claiming you want to do things differently while continuing the undemocratic streak will be seen as another. And the combination of the two will further the corrosive effect on the Lib brand. They should just face facts. They are on their way out like the Rae gov’t was and are destined to join their fed cousins as a third party.

where :
wk seems to want seated candidate of fed-liebranos, but not of ont-liebranos.
to read:
” . . .wk seems to want ONLY seated candidates in leadership race of fed-liebranos, but not of ont-liebranos leadership candidates.. . .”
Make it so.
ttfn
tj
t.e.& o.e.

In 1989, Don Getty did not win his seat as Premier and was handed a gimme. WE all know what that mistake cost us here in AB, Ralph Klein spent a decade fixing the football idols mistakes. This AB PC party to this day disses the effort made by Ralph to explain their ‘wild party spending’ mentality.

So I say NO WAY…….it needs to be law at both levels. No seat, no leather seat.

The British parliamentary system clearly allows for unelected party leaders to be sworn in as Premier. I would argue that Ont today presents unusual circumstances that should discourage the practice.
As jon alludes to above, a Premier can enter into all kinds of financial obligations binding on Ont citizens. McGuinty and a small group of colleagues signed longterm energy deals with Samsung, without presenting the details to the legislature, or maybe even cabinet. At least he was elected with a majority. Someone like Kennedy, soundly defeated by federal voters in 2011 could make similar energy arrangements to the detriment of future taxpayers. Or perhaps Eric Hoskins, who the vast majority of voters have never heard of.
I agree with jon that any outsiders should promise to call an election as soon as they become leader.

Boy I never thought of that. A Premier can do an lot of damage in a short time. As you say they should at least be elected democratically with the confidence of the province before they’re allowed to make any major decisions.

Today’s story is about how Trudeau likes the China deal will Alberta oil.
Of course he would land lock the bitumen so it can’t be exported via the Northern Gateway Pipeline.
But heh, it can be sold CHEAP to the East coast for refining.

Note to all Liberal candidates (and Mulcair).
As of last week, Alberta is building a NEW refinery for our bitumen, in Redwater, shovels in the ground early 2013, new enviro friendly technology, 8000 jobs, $20 Billion investment…..

Still waiting for little Trudeau to tell all about his enviro (carbon tax on fossil fuels)policy, of course that won’t happen in Alberta, no, maybe in BC where he also says he’ll ban oil tanker traffic on the West coast, I’m guessing.
But we know Liberals all too well here in Alberta, give with one hand and cuff yah upside the head with the other.

On another completely unrelated note … commenters may have heard that two Quebec mayors have had to quit because of allegations of corruption and collusion. One of the supposed remedies to combat such activities advanced by commentators (the ones who are paid to comment, not commenters on blogs) is to do away with partisan politics at the municipal level, i.e. that there should be no political parties at city hall.

Which brings me to my point in my usual rambling way … why is Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi sticking his nose where it doesn’t belong, i.e. the by-election in Calgary Centre?

In a recent interview on Solomon’s show, where the mayors of Vancouver, Ottawa, and Calgary were asking for more funding for infrastructure from the feds, the Calgarian was the only one to inject a partisan note into the discussion, with the other two mayors recognizing how well the three levels of government — federal, provincial, and municipal — had worked in implementing the first phase of the feds’ Economic Action Plan.

That’s because Nenshi wants this: Penny Tax (read 20% hike in GST within the City limits and the feds collect it for him too), add a $40 vehicle registration tax, tax on insurance (home, business, vehicle), green fees on fuel, hotel tax, property transfer tax, on and on and on. Salt/Fat/Sugar/Alcohol Tax is coming, I can feel it.

This City wants to close lanes on a major artery for bike lanes! Snow clearing is already priority for bike lanes in winter, to the detriment of suburbia. LOL. I live 22 km as the crow flies in SW Calgary, from downtown. At -20 C, I defy anyone to “bike” downtown in their business suit in winter, from anywhere in the city, never mind the slop, or the sloppy drivers! We elected idiots!

Corporations are bailing on downtown, establishing their offices in suburbia close to major ring roads because Calgary Transit sucks and the inner city roads weren’t designed for these traffic loads. Live and work locally. Frankly, in this digital age why anyone needs to commute to work in an office is questionable. I use Skype, email, fax, or VOIP and the telcos are selling the methods to work digitally right from your home. I stay as far from the downtown core as possible! Mail is one day service in town, couriers are set up in the local strip malls. The headquarters guys can install a video feed if they want to watch me working and from their home office if that’s the case!

Nenshi and others like him can stay home and Skype their “presence” to any conference in the world with internet service. No more fancy-pants trips on taxpayer’s dime and $12 OJ. They don’t need a gigantic “office forum” to strut around thinking up new ways of picking your pocket for “things we’d like Calgarians to do for us to keep our employees occupied”.

On Nenshi involved with the by-election: that meeting chaired by Nenshi was to be a Conservative punch up, with Crockatt the punching bag. She was wise to just go door knocking, because it was a lose-lose venture for her.

Yes he should shut it! Obvious why Ms Crockatt declined to come to ‘his’ debate night on Sunday.
And David McGuinty says today Alberta MPs shouldn’t sit in Parliament, should go home to Alberta…. with that kind of attitude about Albertans, why would anyone in Alberta vote Liberal???
link at nationalnewswatch

CFRA’s Lowell Green and Steve Madely were just presented, on-air, with the Queen’s Jubilee Medal by MP Gordon O’Connor and Senator Colin Kenney.
” Green says he is honoured to receive the medal for representing the people on the airwaves for more than 40 years.

Madely received his award for his work with the Suicide Prevention Network, the Ottawa Hospital Foundation, and his broadcasting career.

CFRA is planning a special broadcast in the new year to celebrate all the local recipients of the Queeen’s Diamond Jubilee medal. ”
Congratulations gentlemen from all your loyal listeners and members of the CFRA Nation!

Following up on Gabby’s comment above, I was quite shocked to hear that Nenshi was getting involved in the federal by-election. I used to live in Calgary but have been out here on the (currently very very) Wet Coast for a number of years so I am pretty out of touch with Cowtown politics these days. Just curious as to whether there is any truth to the stories about the by-election being a very close race. As I recall, Calgary Centre has always been pretty pink – they elected Joe Clark after all – but I find it hard to believe the Government will lose the seat with or without Nenshi’s help.

Nenshi’s popularity has gone to his head. He’s very angry that 3 rec centers (?)in Calgary were not given stimulous money when the pork was being distributed, rec centers did not pass the infrastructure test.

Polls say….. Libs within 5 points of Ms Crockatt.
Greens are a close 3rd and Dippers are at about 8%.

In another completely O/T dept …
I recently became a fan of the TV situation comedy The Big Bang Theory. I guess it’s a form of escapism from the angry political rhetoric prevailing nowadays.

But … watching today’s QP and hearing Liberal MP Scott Andrews’ question melded the two, the political and the comedy worlds. Scott Andrews sounded to me like one of the characters in the TV comedy, Barry Kripke.

Great show, though I prefer the older episodes to the newer ones. With such comedies, there’s always a danger of incorporating too many new characters into the stories, which Big Bang seems to have done. Nevertheless, a great comedy, though Fawlty Towers is my all-time favourite, particularly the ’79 season.

I really hope everyone has time to see the interview
our PM Harper tells the story of the Abbey Rd Beattles photo and
visit to Beattles studio and how they presented him with a recording of him playing the piano etc
just a great interview I am so proud to be a Canadian

“CFRA’s Lowell Green and Steve Madely were just presented, on-air, with the Queen’s Jubilee Medal by MP Gordon O’Connor and Senator Colin Kenney.
” Green says he is honoured to receive the medal for representing the people on the airwaves for more than 40 years.

Madely received his award for his work with the Suicide Prevention Network, the Ottawa Hospital Foundation, and his broadcasting career.”

MadMacs of Bytown, those two guys certainly deserve to be recognized. We need more “character people” like them in the media. They represent good, old fashioned journalism the way it ought to be. Class act, both of them. CFRA has been one helluva radio station, a real gem.

That is the antiAlberta attitude Liberals have had for decades.
They just can’t shake it.
Every leadership campaign they hold their noses and pay us a visit to tell us how much they like Alberta, and that they really really mean it this time.

I suppose we are protectionist, and for good reason. As soon as you let a Liberal/NDP get a foothold, they take the money and run.

way O/T
I voted early at advance pole with my spouse
We am still not on the voter list even though we have voted at the same polling station
at least since 2004
I asked if I would be receiving my voter card for the next election and was assured I would as I turned to leave one of the officers a younger member said this address is wrong and said they needed to correct it ( my postal code was wrong )
you think
how would I receive a card if my mailing address had been recorded incorrectly
kudos to the staffer who noticed I’ll let you know in 2015 if I get my card in the mail telling me where to vote
everyone who is in the 3 by election ridings please vote it is very important

little Trudeau was in Edmonton ranting about … ” the divisive politics of the Conservatives and NDP”
while long time MP McGuinty was in Ottawa ranting that Alberta MPs have no business being in Parliament, they should go home!
AND the Liberal position (contrary to little Trudeau’s) is that the Nexen-China deal is not good for Canadians…

So why should we believe the new and improved LPC will change?
It won’t.
Say anything to get elected, but it’s same ‘ol same ‘ol LPC.

Oh dear The Hair Apparent is in damage control over McGuintys public brain fart.
Apparently the “new Liberals” would be the same old, same old.
They really aren`t supposed to talk like that until they get a Majority.
Gee does Dave McGuinty not believe the chosen one`s mantra of `bringing people together`
Definetly a bad hair day for lil Justin.
Don`t trust them they are just carpet bagging Liberals.http://ca.news.yahoo.com/justin-trudeau-alberta-tories-react-home-comments-liberal-034436029.html
Liberals never change remember the National Energy Policy of Pierre Trudeau, people losing jobs, homes.

In reply to Wilson and others above on Trudeau Jr:
A rather surprising, frank assessment of Liberal chances in the next federal election comes from Andrew Coyne. In short he says that the chances of naming the next PM at their convention are nil, no matter who they choose. It is a contrary view for sure. Perhaps he favours the campaign of cousin Deborah, over JT.

Another Liberal leadership hopefull gets that nasty business of sucking up to Western Canada in their first week of the campaign (never to come back again) done:
”….Montreal MP Marc Garneau was expected to tell the Liberal caucus Wednesday that he will be running for the Liberal party leadership. But instead, he was travelling to western Canada, his office said….”

They come, they blow kisses, then they go back to Montreal and Toronto and pen policy to kill the oilsands and redistribute any wealth remaining to their Eastern voters.
I’m almost embarrassed for the LPC, almost.

Right another Forum Research poll conducted for National Post shows the same results as the previous two, Trudeau winning easily. This is exactly opposite to what Andrew Coyne says in his story linked above. Coyne has more credibility than Forum Research with respect to election predictions, which is not saying much.
The question is why does NP keep flogging this scenario of Trudeau popularity? Is it to sell papers, ow what?

Yah, not with little Trudeau/Martha/Garneau/Paul Martin all in Alberta faking luv and blowing kisses to the knuckledraggers.

Truth is that Bob Rae himself insulted Albertans :
it was the coalition of losers, where Alberta’s MPs would have been replaced with BLOC separatists.
And Rae wanted to lead the charge to give Albertans no representation in Parliament.

The NDP’s Peter Julian is no slouch when it comes to “pathetic” performances during QP. Yesterday & today, with attendant wild arm waving and splenetic scowl, Julian encouraged his confrères to echo his chant of “Hundreds of jobs were lost!”

When we observe what’s going down in this province, with the minority McGuinty Liberals being given the right the people didn’t give them, to go unchallenged as if they had a majority, we have to realize there’s a fine line between democracy and dictatorship in our system.

Double Standards, every utterance from a Conservative was waved around in PM Harpers face by then MSM Party.
They would make it first in line for the “News” for a week
It is not up to Justin Trudeau or Bob Rae to explain or faux apologize for David McGuinty.
He apparently is at home hiding under the bed.
Of course Alberta can go home Ontario has all those nifty windmills and solar panels, who needs nasty old oil from Alberta?
What Justin or Bob did not do is unequivocally state that that is not their attitude also.
If the Liberal party ever gets near the levers of power again are we looking at a whacking great carbon tax?
The attempted coalition coup would have left the West with the prospect of the Bloc controlling parliment.
Don’t go there you will be on the fighting side of the WEST.

Does anyone else notice whenever a Liberal gets in trouble( David McGuinty and Joe Fontana) Robert Fife pounces on a Conservative MP or Senator ( patrick Brazzeau) to deflect attention .
I noticed that Robert Fife spent almost all time with Don Martin bashing the conservative senator and only a few minutes feeling bad for David mcGuinty.
Now on Power and Politics Ian Capstick agrees with David McGuinty that Conservative MP’s should go home. He does not welcome MP’s from Alberta looking out for Alberta. Ian Capstick rolling his eyes and interrupting everyone. Ian Capstick needs to grow up!

Capstick, of course, represents the same NDP who wouldn’t stand up for Canada when it came to criticizing Quebec’s separatist premier for removing the Canadian flag at her signing-in ceremony, not wanting to alienate the same voters that the PQ and NDP both share. And last time I checked, PMSH’s CPC won aprrox 2 of every 3 seats in Canada outside Quebec (166 of 233) showing he has more national representation for his party than Capstick’s NDP whose party, as the flag flap showed, is beholden to one single province in the country.

An extraordinary outburst from Capstick, agreeing with McGuinty that MPs shouldn’t represent their constituents. The only sense coming from this raucous panel discussion was from StocKwell Day. He had a perfect putdown to Capstick, also making the point that a national energy strategy focused on Quebec or NFD-LAB would be unthinkable. Exactly and this is the point.

Maybe Ian Capstick’s bad temper is due to the fact he’s getting fat … or maybe he was so mad that he looked like his entire head was about to explode, which made him look … er … fat!

That entire panel, with the sole exception of Stockwell Day, proved what a complete waste of time and money Power & Politics has become.
• Evan Solomon’s sophomoric debate tactics, immediately shutting down the Conservative, if and when one is present. Stephen Carter — or Wonder Boy, as Tom Flanagan referred to him — doesn’t count as one and I’m beginning to doubt Tim Powers too.
• Ian Capstick’s enfant terrible schtick, interrupting everyone else and talking — or should I say shrieking? — over everyone else. Did I already say today he looked like his head was about to explode? And that it made him look really … fat?
• Jennifer Ditchburn insinuating maybe Calgary Centre electors should embark on an “ABC” campaign — anyone but Crockatt.
• And Rob Silver? Meh, he’s irrelevant. I actually feel sorry for him, even if he gets quite vitriolic at times, like today.

Ha! Ha! Evan Solomon saying “I’m not defending him (David McGuinty)” is as true as saying the moon is made of blue cheese. “To be fair … I’m not trying to bring up tit for tat …” that paragon of impartiality continues.

Chapstick (and Silver too) was very agnry, maybe cuz of the Nik Nanos numbers, Mulcair and Rae tied for least competent leader
and PMSH gained a whopping 17 points as most competant!!!!

I guess we have to trust that Canadians can see thru the media bias and know who has their back, our Prime Minister.

Liberals still don’t get how bad the NEP was on Albertans, every Albertan family was affected in some way. We won’t forget.
Then Libs proposed the Green Shift, then doubled down with the Coalition of Losers.
The NDP would be every bit as devastating for Alberta as the LPC.

One thing for sure, the McGuinty brothers certainly have a blind spot on energy matters. That was really telling, how long Rae was in accepting his resignation.
The important thing to keep in mind is how long a week is in politics; just weeks ago certain Liberal operatives were trumpeting either, McGuinty for federal leader. Not too be taken seriously, but still the stories were peddled just the same.

We think Iggy was bad but wait until Trudeau takes over the Liberals. When we get finished with him Iggy will look good in comparison. Trudeau comes onto the scene with a full bag of nothingness. And ya’d think the Liberals could do no worse. A junior running the Liberals. Surely, there must be a Liberal or two shaking their heads at what they see heading their way. LOL

Appears the Liberals are stuck on stupid. We hear the media talk up Junior Trudeau, saying things like he has good people around him, as if that’s what it takes to be a leader, have other people tell you how to do the job.

For Liberals, all they want is the Shiny Pony on stage, steered by the brains behind the curtain. It’s like window dressing with nothing in the store.

Albertans is currently building a new bitumen refinery, the North West Refinery at Redwater,
first in the world to have carbon capture built into the processing,
it’s 100% Canadian owned and will producing fuel in 3 years.
YET, the Liberals think we need government intervention to be innovative in the oilsands.
We don’t need Federal legislation to tax the oil and gas industry into submission.
We’ll do it ourselves.