Up for Debate: Outrage over Trayvon Martin killing

Thursday, March 22, 2012 at 1:08am

What's your take on the national outrage sparked by the Feb. 26 shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin of Florida? How should have the police in Sanford, Fla., handled the case? What can be learned from his death?

91 Comments on this post:

If this is not a case of racial prejudice, then it is a close second. Not all people can be trusted to carry a gun responsibly.

BTW I am proud that you did not feed the troll yesterday. If you can so can I.

By:Captain Nemo on 3/22/12 at 5:07

The Saints sure got what was coming to them.

By:Ummm... on 3/22/12 at 5:26

With or without racial motivation, this story displays clearly the kind of "wild west" society the NRA and the Republicans are happy to create. (And Capt., I'm not sure "bountygate" is over yet- there are probably player penalties still to come.)

By:govskeptic on 3/22/12 at 5:29

I suspect since Rev. AL is on the scene we will get a clear and unbiased
understanding of what happened and how to proceed.! This may even
call for a Presidential phone call or two.

By:dargent7 on 3/22/12 at 5:32

It's apparent this, "Stand Your Ground" law makes murder, acceptable.
The 911 tape clearly shows the shooter looking for trouble and out for "justice".
He knew the kid was black, wearing a "hoodie", and profiled him as a gangster.
Could he not just of shot him in the leg(s)? Has to shot dead center?
It's like that Bernard Goetz guy 20 years ago who shot 4 kids on a subway in New York, "cause he feared for his life..."

By:Ummm... on 3/22/12 at 5:45

Instead of a sarcastic, unsympathetic comment govskeptic, why don't you tell us how you really feel about the story? Or are you unwilling to openly express your thinly veiled support for the shooter?

By:yogiman on 3/22/12 at 6:24

Wonder if there would be such an outrage if the young man was a white man? With the burglaries taking place in that neighborhood and he being a stranger there, why didn't he answer the [in-house] security man as to why he was there instead of a different approach?

The thoughts of a 17 year old teenager, perhaps?

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 6:25

Spoken like a true racist, yogi. Drag those knuckles a little lower...

By:dargent7 on 3/22/12 at 6:41

Even 17 year olds have a sense of PRIDE. You want some black man asking you, "What are you doing here?", walking on his way home.
Same as Obama NOT releasing his Birth Cert. to a gang of whities....
"Prove where was I born"? Where in the f*** were you born!"

If you aren't communists already, I hope you're adult enough to learn what it is before the next election, because to accept someone as the president of this nation who refuses to identify himself shows your ignorance too well.

By:Kosh III on 3/22/12 at 7:02

I guess Yogi wanted the kid to "show your papers." That's how all fascist societies control people. Just ask the East Germans.
He was on a public street minding his own business.

Did you miss the part where 911 told the murdererer NOT to confront the child?

By:dargent7 on 3/22/12 at 7:05

Chairman Mao, compared to G W Bush, was a humanitarian.

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 7:07

All the kid had to do was show his birth certificate, with signed affidavit of authenticity, signed statement from parents stating the child was not a Marxist and t-shirt that said "Usurper". Then, and only then, would yogi admit that the death of an unarmed child was regrettable.

He's probably one of the most disgusting people I've ever encountered...and I've met politicians.

By:dargent7 on 3/22/12 at 7:08

Off topic: This Saints bullshit where players were financially "rewarded" for hurting other players...the QB the #1 prize is sickening.
The head coach is suspended. I'd arrest the ass-h*** for attempted murder.

By:yogiman on 3/22/12 at 7:14

Hang in there, children. You'll learn more from experience than you weak minds could let you learn from normality.

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 7:15

If the hits were within the rules, what's the problem? I think there's a faction of people that won't stop until the NFL is flag football.

By:dargent7 on 3/22/12 at 7:28

gD: The "hit's are ok. But about 20 years ago players were hitting others at their knees, on purpose, crippling them. It was proven to be a specific attack on another player at a level that would cripple them.
This last season, I witnessed linemen picking up QB's and slamming them to the ground. AFTER the whistle was blown. That's NO tackle.
Santchez, Stafford, Farve all received separated shoulders, broken ribs, cuncushions...in a fu**in' football game?
And if a cash bounty was proven to be paid out to do this type of "sportsman like conduct"?

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 7:32

I think the league and fans are being a little naive about this. There's always been allegations of this (remember the Eagles and Cowboys, "Bounty Bowl"?). My guess is that it's still there and will be in the future.

New Orleans was penalized more for the cover-up than the bounties.

But now, everytime an offensive player gets knocked out of the game, everyone is going to wonder...accusations are going to fly...fans are going to whine...

By:Moonglow1 on 3/22/12 at 7:35

Moonglow1: Zimmerman needs to be on trial for murder. The police dept needs to be investigated for their "cover up" of any wrongdoing by Zimmerman. This reeks of racial prejudice.

P. S. Darg; agree Mao was a humanitarian in contrast to Bush.

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 7:42

Moonglow, I think John Wayne said it best...

Burdette: Why do you say it was (murder)?
Chance: Man gets shot that has a gun, there's reasonable doubt. Man gets shot that hasn't got a gun, what would you call it?

Yes, I can recall obscure quotes from movies at will...

By:dargent7 on 3/22/12 at 7:44

gD: Read the story in USA Today. The defensive line coach is on record as "hatching" the idea of crippling players with a "cash bounty". That's football?

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 7:53

Cite the report that specifically states the intent was to "cripple". All I've read is that there were different amounts for knockouts versus being carried on a cart. Again, if the hits were legal, the only issue is the extra payment and that the Saints lied to the NFL.

But I'd argue that defensive players are already paid to injure players. And as fans, we are complicit in this every time we "oooh" and "aaahhh" a huge hit.

By:dargent7 on 3/22/12 at 8:14

gD: You best attend those Cage Matches, "Ultimate Warrior", "Mixed Martial Arts".
I do not want to see NFL players carried off on golf carts.
Last season all the "late hits" and "unsportsman like conduct" penaltys were 10x more than any other year.
Now, this pig at the Saints is outted as putting a financial bounty on these crippling hits.
You really want to see your NFL heros in wheelchairs eating food from tubes attached to their colons?

By:BenDover on 3/22/12 at 8:27

It's likely that Trayvon thought Zimmerman was a criminal himself... and a good chance that they both believed they were engaged in an act of self defense. With the girlfriend's testimony, Zimmerman's poor judgement clearly places him in the category of manslaughter... or possibly murder. If a prosecutor offered to let him plea to manslaughter he should jump on it because if this goes to the jury murder could very well stand.

The crazy gun-banners using this critical incident to advance their cause is ridiculous though. It's a fragment to discredit the whole. Firearms are used every day in this country against criminals in self defense. To use this tragedy to advance the cause makes it into something it's not. Zimmerman used poor judgement and he is the one that should be punished.... not law abiding citizens who wish to protect themselves from what would be a scenario where only the criminals are armed.

By:Loner on 3/22/12 at 8:28

Good morning, Nashville.

Going to the topic of the day, I'd just add that social media played a part in exposing this apparent injustice...for all its faults and drawbacks, it looks like the free and open internet can be a counterweight to oppression in all its various forms....no wonder then, that governments and the major media are eager to regulate and censor it.

I heard the 911 call from Zimmerman...he called the victim an "asshole" and the police dispatcher told him not to chase after the "suspect". Trigger-happy Zimmerman was on a "N-word" hunt, IMO.

You gotta ask, where was Trayvon's right to stand his ground? In FL, those who retreat their ground are considered guilty and therefore worthy of immediate execution?

Once again, FL shows the rest of the nation why in the USA "states rights" is a dubious concept. When left to their own devices, the states tend to trample upon human rights...and human rights trump states rights IMO.

Will the NRA finance Zimmerman's Defense Team? If they do, they will be hurting themselves in the court of public opinion. People will conclude that NRA = Nuts Retards & Assholes.

By:Loner on 3/22/12 at 8:38

Ben Dover, my old friend and frequent debating opponent, wrote, "Firearms are used every day in this country against criminals in self defense."

Is that right? If so, is there a website that chronicles these daily examples of the wisdom of carrying a firearm?

If there is no such site or periodical, then Ben, I challenge you to start-up such an enterprise. If you have data to back claim that up, I'll apply for a job at the nascent dot org.

Here's a suggested title for such a newsletter, periodical, website or whatever devoted to documenting the instances when a firearm saved somebody's life and/or property....I might call it "Justification". Any feedback on that, Doctor Dover?

By:BenDover on 3/22/12 at 8:38

Here's a site that chronicles self-defense stories that never make national news.

http://gunssavelives.net/

By:yogiman on 3/22/12 at 8:40

Too many determinations are being made by people who weren't there and don't know the situation.

Did the young man "approach" the man,or did he just ignore him?

Since it stated it was a "gated" neighborhood, why was he not willing to let the "in-house" security guy know who he was? Wouldn't you?

By:girliegirl on 3/22/12 at 8:41

Listen to Zimmerman very carefully. He would have shot ANYONE no matter what their skin color. He sounds a little paranoid and WTH was that kid doing so close to Zimmerman that he could "confront" him anyway? How many of us are that stupid...stupid enough to walk onto someone's property and get close enough for them to confront you?

By:Loner on 3/22/12 at 8:41

Grammatical Syntactical Error: "If you have data to back claim that up," s/h/b "If you have data to back that claim up,"

I spent too much time with the Amish...my Pennsylvanian Dutch crept in...mea culpa.

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 8:41

Darge, there are more UC calls because they're attempting to crack down on concussions. Players aren't hitting more, they're just being flagged for it now.

I'm telling you, you can't take the violence out of the game.

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 8:43

Yes, girlie, blame the victim. That's becoming the norm in this society.

No gd, but you can make the pc appearances that you are taking the violence out of the game.

Just ask yourself, "what would Mickey Goldmill do?"...

By:BenDover on 3/22/12 at 8:48

I'd never seen it before but I figured one was out there. The NRA magazine I used to get had a page or two of these stories every month.

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 8:49

That's all this is, Ben. Goodell is essentially telling the league to make sure and not get caught next time. That's why I think fans and media are being pretty naive about it.

By:Loner on 3/22/12 at 8:54

The New Orleans Saints were behaving most un-saintlike....of course, if one believes in Holy War and Holy Warriors, then, yes, in that case, they acted very saintlike...they believed that the ends justified the means....they call that "devotion".

Now the Saints will repeat the Act of Contrition and perform their penance....light candles....burn incense...start singing.

By:BenDover on 3/22/12 at 8:55

Can you imagine a boxing trainer saying, "now don't hurt this chap but touch him with the gloves just as many times as you possibly can".

I hate seeing people get hurt but I don't want to watch any stupid flag football either.

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 9:01

I would have an issue if the hits were illegal. They weren't. Even Favre, who was the target during the championship game said about it, "It's football".

Who thought that he would be the voice of reason?

By:BenDover on 3/22/12 at 9:09

I never understood how someone so indecisive as Farve could be a quarterback. He's spot on with 'It's football" though.

Next they'll turn the trial lawyers loose on Vegas because people lose money there.

By:Loner on 3/22/12 at 9:09

Speaking of Saints and games...the Romans used Christians for half-time entertainment at their "games" and the spectators came to the games specifically to watch people die in a horrible fashion....in the history of our species, the Roman Empire was just yesterday.....we have come a long way in the bread & circus industry in a relatively short time.

Give the species another hundred years.... barring a massive nuclear exchange, and football, as we Americans know it, will seem quite barbaric to most folks in 2112.

So, eat wings, drink beer and watch the NFL spectacle while it's still available....compared to the Roman games, football is wimpy.

Brilliant!! If victims of DUI can sue a bar and its bartender, then victims of gambler's addiction can sue the casinos and their employees?

Bars that get sued in DUI cases allegedly served a person that was too far gone to exercise reasonable judgment...casinos do the same, but get away with it...let the victims sue!

Lots of good start-up ideas here this morning.

By:BenDover on 3/22/12 at 9:31

You think it sucks having Mossad on you back, Loner... just wait 'til the mob gets a piece of you... lol.

By:dargent7 on 3/22/12 at 9:41

This is not, "violence" in NFL football. NFL football isn't by nature, "violent".
These are coaches who paid a premium for "late hits, below the knees, helmet to helmet, etc. All to cripple the opponent.
Let's just all go back to the 15th Century where gladiators wore armor and fought to the death.

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 9:51

Darge, where is the article that says the intent was to "cripple" players?

This is the findings of the NFL...no where does it mention that the intent was to cripple players.

"All the kid had to do was show his birth certificate, with signed affidavit of authenticity, signed statement from parents stating the child was not a Marxist and t-shirt that said "Usurper". Then, and only then, would yogi admit that the death of an unarmed child was regrettable."

UNARMED!?!?! Are you kidding?

Have you ever seen what a black kid can do with a bag of skittles and a bottle of iced tea? I shutter to think what could have happened.....

By:Loner on 3/22/12 at 9:56

"Cripple" may be too strong a term, if it means to permanently disable...the bounties were paid if the hit resulted in a player being removed from the game, as I understand it...the goal was temporary crippling, I suppose....that's not very mitigating, is it?

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 9:59

They worded it as "removed on a cart". In the NFL, that could be a concussion, the wind knocked out of them, blown knee, sprained ankle, broken bone, cramps...you know, the same thing that can happen on any normal play.

The NFL is a passing league because it's getting where you can't touch the offense. It's ridiculous.

By:Loner on 3/22/12 at 10:04

Apparently, Zimmerman had a bloody nose and a cut on his head when police arrived...based on that, they concluded self-defense...let's hope that Trayvon got one good lick in before being wasted in cold blood.

If tried, convicted and incarcerated, Zimmerman will probably be kept away from the general population....lots of brothers would probably feel it an honor to avenge Trayvon....Zimmerman may yet know what fearing for his life actually feels like....he may yet beat the rap....this is after all Florida...the banana republic state....the hanging chad state.....the stand yer ground state.

By:gdiafante on 3/22/12 at 10:05

Here's a question: go back to the second game of the season, 49ers v Cowboys. Romo gets broken ribs and a punctured lung early on. Don't you think that once the 9ers knew of this that they targeted his ribs?

You don't think that when Petersen had a a leg problem that defenses didn't target his leg?