I am sitting at my computer, having little options of other things to do at the moment. There is a construction crew working on my house, and while removing a tree, they removed my cable as well. So I figured I'd start up a thread about the Father's house, and see where it's been, and where it is going.

Quote:

John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Messiah spoke of the Temple of his body being raised up in three days. He said that he himself would do so. Many will say that he was speaking of the resurrection of his physical body, not his spiritual body. This is because of vs 22, which simply says, "they believed him when he rose from the dead."

Quote:

Acts 13:30 But YHWY raised him from the dead:

It is however rather cleary quoted in many instances that the Father raised Messiah from the dead, not Messiah. John 14:28 - My Father is greater than I.

By now, many will be quick to point out Matthew 16:18

Quote:

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The "gates of hell" shall not prevail. Why 'gates' and not just hell (grave)?

Quote:

Psalms 9:13 Have mercy upon me, O YHWY ; consider my trouble which I suffer of them that hate me, thou that liftest me up from the gates of death:

Here is a quote though using gates in which one is saved from death. The Church then also, can be saved from death.
Was that in fact what Messiah was saying? That the Church will be reared from the grave? That the gates of hell would not prevail?

Let's also remember that if anyone is trusting man's work, 'The Church Father's' thoughts, that indeed if they were in apostacy, they became the Father of Lies. Anywho, why would they admit they were apart of the apostacy?

You make some very interesting points, but I wish you would elaborate more on them. Are you saying that you believe the church is in apostacy now? I would have to say that I agree. Unfortunately, the church has been carried into a worship of men. They pick and choose what verses to use and teach their people to believe these things. As sheep being led to the slaughter.

I am not trying to offend the church, but all denominations seem to believe that they have the truth. I set out on a search many years ago praying to Hashem to show me the truth. The truth is not in men's doctrines, it is in Hashem's word.

I am not sure if the church is in apostacy at the moment. I do believe however that it is waking up from it. Most are not able to believe that the Church could have been torn down. It is a heresy most will say that is used only to justify one's religion. Well the same is true of those who believe the church did not die. They are then forced to find ways of getting the earliest doctrines avaliable as written by men. Unfortunatly the earliest are written in the book, and most aren't able to recognize them, because they rely on traditional doctrines to teach them. The Sabbath vs breaking bread is great example. To some it is apparently obvious that the disciples worshipped on the Sabbath (acts 13) while others rely on the 'communion' tradition of (acts 20:7).

To me personaly, seeing things such as this, and really all the different truths out there, the Apostacy is rather evident. But then again simcha, we are in the minority, which has no tradition.

The first point about John 2 is really very valid in my eyes. Messiah was not his father, and did not accend to his Father till after he rose, hence, he was not the one that resurrected himself. He says on the third day he will raise the temple. This my friend is very close if not the third day since the temple was destroyed. Numbers 19:19 the ashes were to be sprinkled on the third day, and the seventh day. The third day we can look at and say he came first then. Again on the seventh he shall return. I believe that Mr. Hebrew has a very good grasp of the days and how the Father uses them. Perhaps he will explain them in the near future.

Matthew 16:18 is really the only verses most are able to lean on showing the churh would not fall away. In fact however, they could be saying the exact opposite. This however comes from the same people who say that one jot and tittle seems to have failed from the Law. Oh well. I am not the best at explaining this, however I think the basic idea is there.

Hi guys!
I am new to this forum, but have any of you ever heard about Dimitri Duittiman? He claimed to have been given a vision of judgement for the US. The Ark Angel Gabriel told him that it was because of the deplorable state of the church that we were going to be judged. He (Gabriel) specifically cited the church's giving of GOD's honor to man,along with abortion, adultry and divorce within the church as the reasons. Pretty scarey, huh?

I have never heard of that man. I would not take too much stock in his idea though. I've had scarier dreams, with asparigus, peas, and beans. Or was that dinner? Never mind.

I am sure those in the United States will be judged, and everyone else on earth. The church doesn't exist solely in the United States. It is not as though other countries don't have deplorable churchs.

I feel that Dimitri Duittiman has been reading Revelation and has pinned down Babylon as the United States. I think he missed the donkey.

I had a dream I met Messiah once, this was before I met him. He merely said thank you. A Vision one day? Hey, who knows.

Valid Name,
Yea , I know what you mean. If I had a dollar for every false prophecy that I've heard, I could probably take a month off work and go to Israel.
The thing about this guy is that he is supposed to have given several other prophetic messages prior to his death, with all of the others having come to pass as he said they would.
However, rather than focus on "what ifs", we should be trying to harvest as many souls as we can while there is still time.
As far as the question to whether or not the church is in a state of apostacy-my experiences on other forums, (as well as attempts to witness to church folks in person) have convinced me that a genuine love of the truth is a rare thing indeed. Be Blessed!