Yes I have to admit, The Cowguys are gay.
Especially Jon, he's really gay (and he never reads anything on p.net) I'm just sort of gay. To add to Jon's sexual confusion, his girlfriend forces him to watch Barbara Streisand, and Judy Garland movies. He can actually name a number of musical movies that Judy Garland is in. If that ain't gay then I don't know what is.

I know Brian is not gay, 'cause he giggles every time I kiss him.
But he can juggle and chew gum like a madman.
Brains partner on the other hand is exploring horti-sexuality. It's as messy as itsounds especially when you get the gardening equipment involved

What an interesting subject and what an astounding amount of mindless crap (over 60 posts) from a group of people I always thought of as worldly.
I'm a 24 year old lesbian, big deal. It means nothing compared to my competence. Why waste time with innuendo about each other's sexuality.

The issue is especially interesting for me because of other aspects, I'm particularly androgenous and can play either boy or girl. I can (but don't) do a great escape from the "Smeggy Old Mailbag" routine, stolen from Nick and improved by Petra, with an added twist. I enter the bag as a guy and emerge as a chick. What I want to know is, why does it only work one way?
If I do the show as a chick then turn into a guy, it dies.
Schafftd (the character)is a pedantic middle aged male lecturer, so I'm doing a sort of drag act.
I've cringed at the homosexual innuendo in some people's shows and laughed myself silly at other's. I'm also astounded at the difference between what a male and a female performer can get away with, sensually as well as sexually. Believe me, I have a unique perspective.
The boy's(as opposed to men) seem a lot more interested in each others private habits than the rest of us might like to know.

Don't get me started about the garden eqiupment. It's been the bane of my existance. I've actually had to limit the amount of stuff he can bring on tour. Before we leave for tours I can be hear uttering things like "Three GArden weaseals? Isn't one enough??" and "75ft of garden hose?!!? We're only going away for three days!"

Mindless Crap Indeed! This is the reason that the Blah Blah Blah section of p.net is the most popular!

Garden weasels aside, the Professor poses a truly worthy question as to the differences perceived by the audience with regard to gender.
Here’s my take on it. It seems to be rather more complicated for female performers considering there is a commonly held belief that performing is an inherently powerful, perhaps even aggressive thing to do. Since most cultures (alas) still feel more comfortable empowering men than women, most audiences don’t feel comfortable entrusting women with that power.
I have seen all too few female comics and even fewer variety performers out there breaking those stereotypical misconceptions. People like Kate the Great, Petra Massey, Tash Wesp et al are to be applauded for their courage to ‘go where no man has gone before’.

Well, Prof., lesbianism is far more acceptable than male homosexuality in modern Western culture. So, if we "boys" are having fun exploring the topic humorously in the safe and (supposedly) supportive environment of p.net, I don't think there's really any harm.

I'm sorry you find it unwordly; perhaps you'd have better luck in the "Jokes" thread.

I get it, prof, but we are a mix.
Worldly /Sophmoric.
Never know which is at the helm.
Loveable as hell, though.

It could be argued that the boy to girl transformation is more in keeping with what crowds consider to be evolutionary progress. No matter how you slice it, girl insides are more complex than boy insides. Celebrate it.

Give 'em credit too, those damn buckpitching punters have a keen sense of what is real. They might know, even though you be extraordinary (haven't seen your act) which switch reveals the real you. Perhaps one dims, one brightens.

I've been who I am for longer than I've understood myself, let alone other people's differences. I don't think there ever was a "choice". I think our sexual preferences are established long before we understand them.
Mind you, I'm enjoying my research and would like to take this opportunity encourage every-one to continue to educate themselves. Study and practice, all of you.

I believe it is a choice and not genetically predisposed. I feel it is nuture and not nature that defines who we are sexually. I think it has alot to do with our early relationships with our parents. My best friend was gay (he died two years ago), and he had a terrible relationship with his mother (she mentally and emotionally abused him as a child). I have another friend who is a lesbian who had a really bad relationship with her father. I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but most homosexual people I've met have had very bad relationships with members of the opposite sex at some point in their life.

"Triona, do you think homosexuality is a choice or something you're born to be?"

This question is a false dilemma. A or B can not be answered if there is a C or D or E...I think I understand the spirit of the question though and will add my 2cents on the topic. I believe we (everyone) "is" gay to a degree. If you think in terms of sexuality on a continuum people slide up and down, side to side, day to day, year to year based on how they feel about others, socialization, cultural conditioning and genetic pre-disposition.
For me it is not a question of "gay" or not "gay" (another false dilemma)but rather what are my preferences or attractions today and will I allow myself to express them regardless of how I have been socialized. will I repress and hide the feelings and make fun of others (or worse) who do not, to mask myself from being discovered or admitting to myself that I am attracted to the same sex on occation.
Today I prefer to have opposite sex sexual experiences but I will admit to same sex attraction and even fanaticizes. If the day comes that the attraction is stronger than my conditioned fear I may act in a perfectly natural way.
You are what you do.
you are what you think.
Which one is true? Both? Is there another possibility?

I believe it is a choice and not genetically predisposed. I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but most homosexual people I've met have had very bad relationships with members of the opposite sex at some point in their life.

Oh boy. I can't wait for replies to this. Triona, that's one of the most inflammatory things I've read on this board in a long time!

Granted, it's your opinion.... If you want to have some real fun, go post that on a message board in a gay community. Watch the flames fly.

Jim

P.S. Did you ever stop to think that the reason gay people have difficult relationships with their parents is because of the parents' homophobia? How many gay people have been disowned by their parents becasue they simply can't deal with a gay child? I think that's the parent's problem and not the child's.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Jim: P.S. Did you ever stop to think that the reason gay people have difficult relationships with their parents is because of the parents' homophobia? How many gay people have been disowned by their parents becasue they simply can't deal with a gay child? I think that's the parent's problem and not the child's.

The comment I made was not intended to be inflammatory. Most of the people I'm referring to had problems with their parents long before they had made any choices about their sexual preferences. Yes, I know about the disowing and crap. My best friend's mother tried to have him kidnapped and "re-programmed" to cure him. She even tried to bribe me to marry him to get him over "his problem" (did I mention that his folks were born again christians and his grandparents were ministers in the church)

I don't understand why any gay person would support the "born that way" theory. If the society as a whole accepted that, scientist would work until they found the "gay" gene and then parents could have testing done so they could "eliminate" what society (not me) perceives as a defect. That would be a crime in itself as some of the most creative people I've met were gay.

I wonder how many of the "born that way" gays really had a bad early relationships with one or both of their parents, that they just don't want to admit to or accept. I'm sure a scientist or sociologist somewhere has done or is doing a study on this.

Oh well, I don't really care either way. I just deal with people as they are.

[quote]Originally posted by Triona:
I don't understand why any gay person would support the "born that way" theory. If the society as a whole accepted that, scientist would work until they found the "gay" gene and then parents could have testing done so they could "eliminate" what society (not me) perceives as a defect. That would be a crime in itself as some of the most creative people I've met were gay.
************************************

Triona:
HUH?!?!

Maybe a gay person would "support" that theory if that is what s/he has EXPERIENCED.

And, since WHEN has the scientific community devoted its research
to altering the moral or behavioral outcome of genetics???

~~~
Furthermore, since you believe it IS a choice,
and you find gay people so creative,
WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO TRY IT?
COME ON Triona, don't make me BEG.

You know what they say;
BIG CATS are DANGEROUS!
But a little pussy never hurt anyone.

It is possible (likely) that Jim, Triona, and Scot are all correct, at least in part. Personally, I have gay friends and acquaintances who fall into all three categories: gay from "birth"; abused as a child and then later gay, and; straight for a large part of their life, then realized/decided they were gay.

Like most issues, this is not a black or white situation (although groups with a pro- or anti- gay agenda try to make it one.) Perhaps some people are predisposed to being gay, and of those, some need a catalyst--such as childhood abuse--to bring that aspect of themselves to light; those of you who get the radio program "Loveline" are aware that a large number of the gay callers reveal that they were sexually and/or emotionally abused as children (of course, it's possible that only the one's who were abused have a real need to call the show). By the same token, many hyper-sexual straights ("womanizers" and "sluts") were abused as children. So did the abuse "make" them the way they are or just accentuate it?

The question that occurs to me is *why* is the nature vs. nurture question being asked? (I don't mean by you, Jenny, I mean by society.) Do we need to clarify the issue so we can say, "Oh well, it's not their (my) fault, they were (I was) born that way."? Or, "They chose to be gay, they can choose not to be."? Or, "They're only gay because they were abused, so we can cure them of it."? The fact that it's even an issue says to me that gays are still looked at as a puzzle that needs to be solved, instead of just as people.

This is were I'm supposed to make some pithy witticism to balance out the seriousness of the stuff I wrote above, but my computer froze up as I finished typing the last sentence and I had to do it all over again and I'm tired and grouchy. Please insert your own clever comment here.

Maybe a gay person would "support" that theory if that is what s/he has EXPERIENCED.

And, since WHEN has the scientific community devoted its research
to altering the moral or behavioral outcome of genetics???

How can one truly say that they were born gay? We live a fair number of years before we're really aware of our sexuality. I don't remember what happened to me when I was an infant, I doubt most people do. I've heard people say that they were gay for as long as they could remember, or since they were aware of their sexuality.

As for trying it, I'm sorry but I'm not interested. If it works for you, that's great. I do, however, resent the fact that you don't seem willing to accept that I'm hetrosexual when I am willing to accept that you are not.

Triona, did you CHOOSE to be straight? Or do you just 'know' you're straight?

Ask 10 gay people the same question and they'll answer the same way you did.

It's not a choice to BE gay or BE straight. It is only a choice to admit you are or not.

I don't know ANY gay people who 'chose' to be gay... if anything, they CHOOSE to be (or at least 'act') straight to appease their family, friends and society until they just can't take it anymore and then come out and admit to themselves and the world who they really are. And they're usually much happier.

Stephon put it very well... Gay people are not a puzzle to be 'solved.'

I agree with you completely Jim. I was only using the parameters that Airborne gave me. I don't believe that there is a "gay" gene. Therefore it is not genetic. I referred to it as a choice for that reason. Unless it is genetically programmed into a human being, a down-syndrome person can't choose not to have the condition, we have a choice. Like you said, many gays act "straight" to fit in. If they were genetically programmed this would not be possible.

As for my making a choice to be straight, yes I have made a choice. Otherwise I might take Jenny up on the proposition. I don't think that my choice should be vilefied any more than someone who elects an alternative life-style.

I never said that homosexuality was a disease that needed a cure, and I agree that homophobia needs to be eliminated. I think both Scot and Stephon made good points.