"We can't even make a consistent prognosis of her fate, including... whether she is alive or dead."
UPDATE JANUARY 2010 THE MCCANNS COULD HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH CHILD KIDNAPPING AND TRAFFICKING (Pt Prosecutor giving evidence in an ongoing case in Portugal where the McCanns are demanding ONE MILLION POUNDS IN DAMAGES FROM THE OFFICER WHO INVESTIGATED THEM!!!

10 Mar 2008

HOW WILL THE MCCANNS DISCREDIT EDDIE WHO SNIFFED THROUGH LAYERS OF CONCRETE

What boozy red noses tut tut Drs McCann..seems like it was always a priority in their lives..

EDDIE below KEELA right

There has been a concerted effort to discredit the evidence of these two dogs by Team McCann with their lawyers even seeking to rely on an American case where the American dogs were found to be only 70% reliable, but now Eddie has produced this spectacular result in Jersey, sniffing just bones going back to the 80s through inches of concrete, he sure is going to take some discrediting. What a lovely "enhanced" dog! Unfortunately for the McCanns Eddie and Keela simply do not have a track record for failures likes the American dogs, but their lawyers seeking to use this American case does demonstrate just how desperately worried the evidence of these two top police recruits causes them to be. I notice there is no mention of the PJ applying to seise Kate's clothing that the cadaver dog smelt death scent on, did you just have to give those up, Kate? I reckon so..How absurd though for Clarence's tame little paper the Daily Mail, copied below to suggest the prosecution case would be solely based on the dogs evidence... they wish! The dogs simply find the evidence for them, that they are talking about a body, a dead child, the police then know for sure who their suspect is and take it from there. No one else was in the frame after that thanks to these two wonderful dogs. Did they find any evidence in Murat's vehicles, garden, home etc NOPE!

PS I read on Psychopops blog they did not not like animals on my blog, so I thought I should put another couple on:-) I know which two I would prefer..

Viv x

Madeleine: McCanns consult American lawyers over 'cadaver dog' evidenceLast updated at 18:07pm on 16th September 2007Comments (2) Kate and Gerry McCann's legal team have consulted the lawyers of an American man accused of murdering his estranged wife in a case where cadaver dog evidence was key, a source said today.Two British sniffer dogs, one capable of detecting blood and human remains, were brought to Portugal in early August.The cadaver dog picked up a "scent of death" on everything from Mrs McCann's clothes to missing Madeleine's favourite soft toy Cuddle Cat, according to reports.Scroll down for more

During police interviews the McCanns were shown a video of the animal "going crazy" when it approached their Renault Scenic hire car, newspapers have claimed.Leaked reports from the investigation have suggested Madeleine's parents could have accidentally killed her and then disposed of her body using the car.Although they do not know the full details of Portuguese prosecutors' case against them, the McCanns are concerned it may rest on the dog's reaction.They want to highlight the judge's dismissal of cadaver dog evidence in the high-profile Eugene Zapata murder trial in Madison, Wisconsin.Scroll down for more

Helpful hound: Eddie was also drafted to help in the search for MadeleineThe couple's lawyers have already contacted Zapata's defence team, who are now sending their large file on the matter to Britain.Zapata's estranged wife, flight instructor Jeanette Zapata, was 37 when she vanished on October 11 1976 after seeing her three children off to school. Her body has never been found.Detectives suspected Zapata of involvement in her disappearance but did not charge him because of a lack of evidence.Police decided to conduct new searches using cadaver dogs, a new investigative technique, when an old friend of Mrs Zapata contacted them about the case in 2004.Scroll down for more

Eugene Zapata (left) was convicted of first-degree murder of his estranged wife Jeanette (right) when sniffer dogs found traces of human remains at his homeZapata, 68, was charged with first-degree murder last year after the dogs indicated they sniffed human remains in a small basement "crawl space" at the former family home in Madison and other properties linked to him.But Dane County Judge Patrick Fiedler ruled last month that the evidence that led to the charge could not be put before the jury.He said the dogs were too unreliable in detecting the odour of remains and noted that no remains were actually found.The judge agreed with an analysis of the three dogs' track record by Zapata's defence team that found they were incorrect 78 per cent, 71 per cent and 62 per cent of the time.Scroll down for more

Gerry and Kate McCann: hired an American lawyer over sniffer dog 'evidence' that detected the 'scent of a corpse' on Mrs McCann's clothesAccording to the Wisconsin State Journal, Mr Fiedler told the court: "The state has failed to convince me that it's any more reliable than the flip of a coin." Zapata denies murder, and the jury in the case went out on Friday to start considering its verdict.A source close to the McCanns' solicitors said: "The legal team are in touch with the lawyers who represented the defendant in the case."The court papers, giving the legal submissions, are on their way to the McCann team for consideration."At the moment there are no formal charges and therefore there is no formal allegation against which the McCann team can work. We are having to work a little bit in the dark."But given that we understand the central plank of what the police are alleging involves sniffer dogs - albeit British ones which are said to be particularly good - this is important and relevant, and will be raised with the police and brought to the judge's attention."

-----------------------------------------------How can a dog sniff through concrete?WHO, WHAT, WHY? The Magazine answers...

Eddie has worked with the FBIA child's remains were discovered under several inches of concrete at a former children's home in Jersey after police bought in dogs to search the site. But how can they sniff through concrete?For Eddie, it's all in a day's work.When police suspected human remains were buried on the site of a former children's home in Jersey, the springer spaniel was part of the specialist team brought in to investigate.Jersey Police said the seven-year-old dog located parts of a child's body even though they were buried under several inches of concrete. So how did he do it?THE ANSWERThe dogs are highly trained using scientific techniques which look into how they smellEddie is an enhanced victim recovery dog and is specially trained to detect the scent of human remains. He is able to smell through solid materials, like concrete, because of scientific training techniques.It's this training that sets him apart from standard police sniffer dogs, which are able to detect human remains in shallow graves. The springer's nose is more sensitive and he is called in on more complicated cases.Super sensitiveThe specialist training techniques - which are highly confidential - were developed by Eddie's handler Martin Grime, along with the UK's National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) and America's Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).They are scientifically based and rely on how dogs smell and the chemicals involved.

Dogs are used in hunting because of their sense of smellCanines are known for their outstanding sense of smell, estimated to be 10 times stronger than a human's. Like us they smell using special receptors in the nose, which react to tiny chemical scent particles in the atmosphere and send a message to the brain.Dogs can smell so well because they have an estimated 200 million such receptors, compared to five million in a human nose. The extra receptors mean canines are able to distinguish between different smells much more acutely."We don't discuss what the training involves, but it's a lot more than putting bits of meat on the ground for them to hunt out," says Mr Grime, a retired South Yorkshire Police officer who now works as an independent consultant.Focus"A standard sniffer dog is like a basic tool. An enhanced dog goes through much more training and is a lot more discriminating about smells, basically its nose is super sensitive. It's also about getting the dog to really focus on a task."While rare, Eddie and partner Keela are not the only enhanced victim recovery dogs in the UK. The Metropolitan Police and forces in Surrey and Greater Manchester have them. But what sets these two springers apart is that they work exclusively in this field, says Mr Grimes.WHO, WHAT, WHY?

A regular part of the BBC News Magazine, Who, What, Why? aims to answer some of the questions behind the headlines"Other dogs have to do other police duties but mine work full-time in this area, making them very sharp and highly skilled."The dogs have been used by police forces across the world and were called in to help with the Madeleine McCann investigation.Both are springer spaniels, but the breed is no better suited to the job than any other. A dog just needs to show a keen sense of smell and it's the training that makes them good enhanced victim recovery dogs, says Mr Grime.Eddie was bred by a specialist search-dog breeder and Keela came from the West Midlands Police breeding programme.Both live with Mr Grime and have a normal life outside of work. He is currently training two new dogs, Morse and Lewis.In the Jersey case, parts of a child's body were found on Saturday. The remains are thought to date from the early 1980s. Police have yet to say whether they are male or female.

Well argued as usual. I think if you look at team McCanns actions in all this it is very predictable. If I hypothetically put myself on their staff and was asked to ward off blows in their defence, I think my actions would be similar to what they appear to be receiving.

The trouble for Team McCann is if you pay people to help you, they will of course do so, but they will also help themselves by perpetuating their need, hence all the spin. I think my advice to the McCanns would have been to keep a low profile but to employ legal representation in readiness. I would have also suggested that they directed the press to their legal representatives for information and got them to release press statements when and only when absolutely necessary. However this advice would have done me out of a job!

"Frogmen resume search of reservoir in which lawyer claims Madeleine McCann's body was dumpedLast updated at 10:55am on 10th March 2008

Divers have resumed their search of a remote Algarve reservoir where a Portuguese lawyer claims the body of Madeleine McCann was dumped.

Frogmen returned to the murky waters of the Barragem do Arade reservoir to hunt for the missing four-year-old today.

Criminal lawyer Marcos Aragao Correia spent thousands of pounds on a previous search of the reservoir five weeks ago after a tip-off Madeleine had been murdered and her body thrown into an Algarve lake last May.

Firefighter divers joined specialists from Lagos-based dive school Dive Time this morning as the original search area around a water pumping tower was widened."

Lawyer searches reservoir?, but why? A right thinking lawyer would leave that to the police having reported it to them. So he's probably being paid (do they do anything if their not paid?) Now I wonder in who's interest it would be to pay him to distract a police investigation and place the story in the UK press Hmmm?

Hi Viv, Have been away for the weekend, come back and have been reading the comments from anons on here and Chinadoll, they clearly have severe problems, the fact you have kept your patience with their unpleasant , unbalanced comments shows what kind of a person you are, I admire the fact you don't lose your cool when they are clearly trying to antagonise you. Really good article by the way.Lizzy 18.35

LGC As you have said before you like conspiracy theories . You think the reason the McCanns havent been charged is because of govt involvement . The Pj merely have to issue an arrest warrant based on the masses of evidence they have . Do you think it would not be executed ? Whats stopping them ?

You might like to take a look at www.timesonline.co.uk which today reports that a 'cabal' of politicians and others have undermined legitimate inquiry into the abuse and death of children in Jersey - 'allegedly'.

Hiya Lizzie - I wondered where you had been! Great to have you back and hope you had a lovely time.

I think it would be uncharitable to lose patience with people, who, on their own admission, as in Chinadull's case, have mental health problems. There are others though who have no insight into their mental illness or personality disorders and do need to be investigated by the police.

You are sick and disgusting and I have told you before you are not welcome on this site and your posts will be deleted.

Currently, on top of everything else, you are spreading a malicious rumour that I have previously written, in derogatory terms about Jane Tomlinson which is utterly false and libellous. It was probably you! Would you care to put your "evidence" on your site - no I thought not!

You are a very sick person, even claiming to know paedophiles and their precise whereabouts in a small Spanish resort and you need help, urgently. I consider you are a grave danger to children.

Anon, The reason the PJ have not as yet issues an arrest warrant for the McCanns is very simple. Because they have not, as yet, completed their investigations, as you should be well aware. Under Portuguese law no charges can be made until the investigation is concluded on the instructions of, and to the satisfaction of the Investigating Judge. He will then review all the evidence amassed to consider appropriate charges. Quite simply, that stage has not yet been reached, but it will.

The British Senior Investigating Officer, Detective Superintendent Prior of Leicestershire Police returned from a meeting with his Portuguese colleagues last Wednesday and the PJ's arrival to sit in on interviews to be conducted with various witnesses is imminent. It is still likely to be some time therefore before the McCanns can be arrested and charged.

No vile because you are one lying bitch.Can't even tell the truth about the parrot you downloaded, oh sorry I forgot you are not in England are you lololololol.Thats why the dates not right.Hi luke/leigh (waves).

Because there has been outrageous governmental interference from Britain in another sovereign country's ongoing investigation into the probable death of a minor, the PJ are making certain they have all the 'i's dotted and 't's crossed so that they can present a watertight case to court.

the fact that they aRe being so careful in this way shows that they are an excellent police force, determined to get justice, and also that they have so much incriminating evidence they don't want a small administrative error to ruin their case. A case which involves nailing the culprits of the probable manslaughter of a little girl.

I really don't see:-

1. How you can think the McCanns have absolutely nothing to hide.

2. How you can defend them in such an aggressive way, seeing as they are official arguidos, and that in all probability you weren't there on that holiday to see what went on.

3. How you can lay into people who want justice for a 3-year-old child.

4. How you can sleep at night. Has it NEVER occurred to you that your beloved McCanns might just be culpable towards the disappearance of their daughter?

This makes the rest of us extremely suspicious, that you Pros won't hear of anything other than the McCanns complete innocence. This is not rational. Only people with an agenda would act in this way.

If this nightmare was happening to my friends/family, I'd seriously have to consider matters. People aren't innocent just because you happen to know them.

Every post you and your friends make, 'Anonymous', re-inforces our belief that the McCanns DO have something to hide. This is because of what you write!

The flight that came in from Faro to Birmingham last night is where they flew from before, I believe. Blatant denials in spite of the evidence, as LGC has pointed out, shows their desperation..a bit like finding it necessary to resort to profane and personalised attacks.

LGC - on that we are united - those with an aggressive and abusive agenda, seeking to defend the indefensible, only serve to make us more determined!

Did any of them come on here and seek to challenge the evidence provided in the above articles - no, of course not, no more than they ever did on the Daily Express. Just the same old school room bullies and thugs. How pathetic!

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE

I have been saying it for months now and my resolve is just as strong to stand firm against these perverts who welcome those who consort with paedophiles and excuse serious child abuse as just a mistake. Luv Viv x

Everything is so hush, hush as the PJ are doing a very good job and appearing outwardly quiet in the process. I think they learnt that leaks to the press did nothing but to damage their reputation.

There is no denying that they are competant and capable and they don't need words splurged all over the press to demonstrate their capabilities. In fact, I believe they have kept their best hand until last, when they are least suspected of uncovering the truth.

Why else the blackout on news? Surely, as with M3, publicity, no matter how clumsy they are and useless has kept an ulterior motive aloft for far too long by constant spin, sensationalism and constant speculation! (Madeleine will be home by christmas)

If all that the "worriers" in the face of justice for this little girl, for whom we are mostly all here, can do, is slag off a decent person's house, parrot, electrical wiring, decor and taste, then this smacks of pure desperation & very little intelligence.

Poor little maddie.

Trolls - toddle off to from where you were spawned. You should be ashamed.

Maybe suggesting the intellect and verbal reasoning power of these thugs is on a par with the Mitchell brothers may be deeply insulting to them!

~Did you check out the picture of Kate and Gerry several years ago with their boozy red noses and table full of drinks. Clearly their priority, as doctors (how perverse), was to try and find some personality at the bottom of a bottle. Having three little ones to care for did not change their habits one little bit, did it!

Given the tactics employed to defend these two alcohol swilling doctors it is little wonder another doctor with a serious substance misuse problem and a propensity to kill also gets mentioned. A real psychopathic control freak with absolutely zero victim empathy as well...

This disordered bunch just add to their list of victims and then sit in their little coven slavering over it. How nice for them. They tell us there is a serious problem in Spain and Portugal, Psychopops says it is "spine chilling". Pity it could not look closer to home and consider the 77,000 children that go missing in the UK, every single year.

I do not need to do my own homework.You do not know the travel itinerary of the PJ anymore than I do. As for holding my breath and bursting a blood vessel, I have no intention of doing either. And you will never see me red in the face. Patience is a virtue as far as I am concerened and justice will be done. I can wait. As has been stated you obviously are in denial and I do believe along with others are feeling desperate.

Patience is a virtue. A virtue that seems to be lacking in some small faction of small-minded people.

The same small minded people that demonstrate paranoia & contempt at our patience and resort to filth and muck spreading? I would say that they belong in a pig farm, only i believe that pigs are intelligent & kind creatures!

Psychpops and "spine chilling". It is a pity he/she could not look even closer to home and realise that it is "spine chilling" that parents can take their 3 year old daughter and 2 year old twins on holiday and leave them alone every night to go out and wine and dine with friends over 100mts away, checks or no checks. It is "spine chilling" that the eldest child has vanished and the parents are prime suspects. It is "spine chilling" that these parents behave the way they do. IMO.

Two doctors? Hmmm. I wonder. Such qualifications are available to anyone with the relevant 'A' levels, and perseverance. Genuine doctors have much more than that; they have values, commitment, dedication, an enduring empathy for mankind, and the desire to help others.

IMO, the McCanns acquired the qualifications; they never attained the quality of character to live up to the role of doctor. That is their downfall, and their children's tragedy, imo.

I agree the PJ are acting with decorum and dignity in what is after all an extremely serious investigation. How desperate the McCanns and their sycophants are to know what is going on. All they do know is the net is efficiently closing on them with the news that Detective Superintendent Prior returned from a three day visit to Portugal last Wednesday. I would not like to be in their position.

I see they are now saying I downloaded Nanday which kind of defeats their previous attacks on my living room. Everything these people have previously said just descends into oblivion - like all the so called sightings of Madeleine and all these so called creepy men who hung around smoking and then seised their 8 minute window of opportunity, then calmly walked off with Madeleine right under Gerry's nose. I have heard some tripe in my time but " professional paedophiles". He must have been Houdini, reincarnated, but then lost his car keys, killed Madeleine, wrapped her up in Kate's jeans, read the bible to her and then used Kate's keys... prior to thinking no I will just walk off with her, Gerry being outside will add to the excitement and they talk about conspiracy theories!

I don't pretend to be a doctor - and a bloody good job too as your patients would run a mile,

LGC does not have a blog. What i am trying to say and banging my head on the wall at the same time is that you trolls are a bunch of psychopathic idiots that belong in a cell and kept away from the general public, for your own safety and for our safety and sanity.

You are a threat to civilisation but not a serious one as i would not wish to sex-up your stupid pride. Just go away as nobody cares.

Sometimes I think you just need to have a reality check and think yes this is actually what they would have us believe. They even want us to believe the Retardos are worth all that cash - not even to Kate and Gerry IMO! Maybe they should have just bought another car and paid their mortgage off with it! Leastways the twins would have something tangible when mom and dad get put where they belong and I dont think the public would mind them benefiting from the money somehow.

I think any normal member of the public who stumbles upon Psychopops or its mate Supertroll's blogs would either throw up or go into a fit of belly aching laughter. Depends upon your sense and sensibilities, I guess, but no one is going to find them normal, and they do a damn fine job of convincing the public what a pair of dangerous nutters the McCanns are. We could almost just leave them to it really!

Is it possible that the press blackout was asked for by the PJ because of Portugeuse Secrecy Laws? Perhaps the PJ can see the manipulation of the press by a certain person/s and the circus it has become.

I smell a certain kind of desperation and anxiety coming from the anons etc. Something too close to the truth perhaps?Maybe the PJ ready to (finally) be allowed to have their interviews? Or just the high profile of accuracy the dogs have achieved in the Jersey case?

Loved the "pet posts' Viv, so sad that certain souls had to vilify something that was intended otherwise.Where is my alterego tonight? :(

The Twins you know if they did cover up an accident they are in serious trouble but I still cant think about the twins without their Mum and Dad. I dont think much of the McCanns but to the twins they are the world they have already lost their sister if they loose their parents as well it will break their hearts.

I know they left them alone and it was just wrong no excuse but the twins would not want to loose their Mum and Dad because of it.

That is the thing with this I want to know what happend and also want people to realise that if you neglect your child you put them in terrible danger. But to think of the twins without their parents really breaks me up.

I hope the PJ are on thier way with questions and some answers but I feel now the same as I did when Kate was questioned Sad...

I think the recent comments of Ribeiro indicate the concern the early and public naming of the McCanns as arguidos caused by the ridiculous media circus that was then unleashed. This has undoubtedly hampered the investigation as Portugal have many times complained. Portugal has also expressed concern about all of the bizarre speculation that has gone on - no doubt a reference to Clarence Mitchell, for example in so publically producing that e-fit and demanding this man be tracked down as Madeleine's possible abductor.

There can be no doubt the PJ have been swamped with hundreds of false leads emanating from the McCann camp as they try to deny the latest leak of evidence against them. The PJ would obviously come to the very sensible conclusion that the more they can hush the investigation up now the less of this time wasting will go on. I think there was a sound operational reason for the leaks ieaks in the first place, because they needed to build a police case against them. They wanted to put the frighteners on them with certain leaks (and I am sure this was only edited highlights of the police evidence). Police legitimitately use this tactic as part of their investigation process. Then the suspects are bugged and put under intense surveillance as the McCanns and their friends clearly were, both here and in Portugal. They now have a formidable case against them and the end game is to go completely silent, leaving the McCanns casting around as to how they can possibly defend themselves when they simply do not know what the evidence is. You will see this sentiment expressed in the article above. ~They were seeking this evidence that American dogs had proved less than accurate because they at least knew of the dogs evidence against them. In any legal proceedings keeping your opponent in the dark as much as possible is standard practice. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. The PJ are going to tightly hold on to the details now and not forewarn them because it is a case they have invested probably millions in by now and clearly do not intend to lose. Additionally, there is the issue of the McCanns complaining that unfair details are being put in the press that could prejudice their right to a fair trial. Again, they are not going to be given the satisfaction of saying this.

If you accept the police case that Kate and Gerry McCann killed Madeleine, disposed of her body and then sought to cash in and cover up then they clearly must go to prison for this. I think you need to consider the question, if they are capable of doing this to one of their children, just what sort of parents are they, and how could the twins be safe with them.

Kate McCanns has publically stated, e.g. on Panorama that the twins are just not bothered by the loss of Madeleine, they play hunt the monster who took her - is this part of a normal healthy upbringing? Siblings suffer serious psychological harm when they lose one of their own, that is a fact. It is perverse when you have a parent, who is a qualified doctor and cannot even accept that. Neither can she accept she did anything wrong at all "I tell myself every day I am a responsible parent". If she does not have the capacity to accept the terrible harm she caused then she is a real danger to be in charge of little children. Parents who are in love with alcohol and going out rather than taking good care of their children are very poor parents. The twins deserve a normal happy and loving home, where those responsible for them know exactly what their legal and moral duties towards them are.

Personally, i would just laugh at the poor, pathetic, misguided little souls. I like to reserve my bodily fluids for dire emergencies only!

As for whether you have down-loaded nanday or it is a true picture - well they can't have their cake and eat it too can they? Indecisiveness, in this case, is a sign of stupidity!

Zodiac - yes. I think the PJ know exactly what they are doing & so do the McCanns. This is why there is so much hatred from that camp at present as tied hands make fears nightmares.

IDPTBAD - I am not ranting. You will know when i do & I already have my PhD accepted, thank you for asking, remembering and caring - cheers. Remind me to congratulate you when you graduate & i will try to remember to bring my zimmer frame.

I do not know where your alter ego is tonight - quite possibly caring for little babies where he works, I suspect!

You can really feel the malevolence and desperation building can't you. I think the success of these two wonderful dogs in Jersey, highlighting in the reports would clearly have added to that. Where is 2345 when I need her! She is normally great on the forensic stuff. But I think I would be right in saying, in contrast to the American dogs Eddie and Keela have a 100 not 70% success rate. I have a feeling the American dogs were just ordinary working police dogs. ~As the article above makes clear, this is not the case with Eddie and Keela they are specialists that only undertake this role.

Additionally of course, as you say, the desperation would be because the return of the PJ is imminent. I would not be at all surprised if they are not already here. As I posted a plane from Faro did land at Birmingham last night and the timing given Det Sup Prior arrived back last Wed would be about right. Given the press furore the McCanns always unleash at such events they may have decided to keep it all very quiet and Jane Tanner is hardly likely to start bragging to the press she got a grilling is she!

Hope4truthHave to comment that while I do not agree with somethings you post,you are a genuinely nice person.

No they should not of left the children alone to wine and dine, but I think sometimes with all the bickering between blogs etc and vindictive comments, people loose sight of how tragic this all is, and it is becoming a point scoring exercise.

In all honesty I will/would not declare whether Kate & Gerry are innocent or guilty becuase I am not privvy to all the facts. I truly hope they are not because like you I feel desperatley sad for the twins, the loss of a sister and then their parents would be too awful to contemplate.

Great news re your PhD. What these bods just dont seem to accept is we have no need to invent a flipping parrot or a PhD. I am sure you will be familiar with the psychological term "projection". It refers to people with a personality disorder who know full well aspects of their character and behaviour are bizarre and abnormal e.g. the need to write false abuse about others and in order to make themselves feel better "project" their own obnoxious behaviour onto others, accusing them of doing exactly what they do themselves. Psychopops and Supertroll are a couple of obnoxious liars who clearly indulge in this and are very disordered people.

There is definatly something about them that I dont trust like you I dont believe they should have left their children and all I can think of is the twins.

Many lives will be wrecked because of their actions Madeleines has probebly ended because of it.

I have been called sick twisted scum because I dont believe them at the end of the day no one wins it is not about scoring points and I hope that the PJ are on their way as this needs to be finished and the spin must stop.

Interesting defense mechanism that is projection, as you mentioned in your post to Dillie.Especially very common in the paranoid delusional disturbances and paranoid schizophrenia. Typical textbook behaviour and very helpful re the clinical diagnosis of these type of people.

I am glad to see that you and most of the posters on here, keep the moral high ground and thank you again for the articles :)

It's a sad world, as you say, but it is also a hopeful world, as your name suggests.

IMO, the long march of civilisation endures moments of deep pain for the gain of longer term progress, e.g. Justice for Maddie and all children. It's a hope, something worth defending,and striving for.

Child protection laws exist for children, not for adults. Now that's a happy fact, imo, even if it makes the parents sad.

Hope I think you are a very loving and empathic mom and person in general. Having empathy means being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes. So you imagine your own little children suddenly being cut off from you and how terrible that would be and it certainly would.

But you are not comparing like for like. There is no way your own high levels of empathy and parental style can be compared with Kate and Gerry McCann. Sometimes children are just better off without parents who lack empathy, are self-centred and cannot properly think of the needs of their children - they are selfish and self-obsessed. Kate's comment demonstrates a complete lack of empathy with how those little ones have suffered. This is no doubt a way to salve her own conscience. She is not prepared to accept any responsibility for causing harm to any of her children.

The McCanns did commit a serious criminal offence and the only place for them is in jail. I do think social workers should have removed the twins when they were just turned two to more responsible and loving family members who could help them recover. Delay is children cases is always very serious. Their needs and what they would ultimately have to face should have been the paramount consideration in all of this. Madeleine cannot be brought back but they still have the right to a decent life and as much protection and care for the unfortunate circumstances they were born into. Not all children are so lucky to have such a lovely parent as you. Then difficult choices have to be made for them as to what is in their long-term best interests.

Rachel Nickel's son was tiny when she was murdered. He couldn't speak at the time and god forbid what the poor child witnessed, but i understand that he is now suffering deep, psychological hurt, pain and suffering.

Such a horrible thing for a toddler to witness. Animals go to their dead ones and mourn in much the same way that we do but can't vocalise it. That doesn't mean that they don't "see" and comprehend it. So, so horrible.

If the twins saw anything, they may not remember but it, but will almost certainly affect their being and subconcious in years to come. If anything, I hope, for their sake, that they find out what happened & i really hope Madeleine comes home, alive so that they will never have to live with that trauma.Nite x

2.48pm post. I agree. I do believe the McC's & Co are in the dark regarding evidence and the PJ have leaked a little bit here and there. It will be interesting when all is revealed. Read you all tomorrow.

Hello again Viv, Dillie, Hope, Leigh and anyone I owe apologies to for leaving out,

The problem the McCanns have with their 'friends' (let's narrow it down just to one problem this evening) is that:-

1. These 'friends', 'paid helpers', whatever, have extremely limited intelligence and are therefore not capable of analyzing and aborting failing methods of spin and PR.

2. Accordingly, their main - actually, only - tactic is to personally attack posters who believe the McCanns have a case to answer about Madeleine's disappearance.

3. These friends fail to realise - week after week, month after month - that this only goes to put off a TINY fraction of those posting on these sites who believe the McCanns to have some culpability in these tragic events.

And even if these people stop posting, they still retain the opinion that the McCanns are guilty of something heinous.

This does not alter the overwhelming public opinion against the McCanns.

Those of us who are secure in ourselves and our beliefs, and who are further riled by these tactics, are STRENGTHENED in our resolve not to rest until true justice is done.

4. That Team McCann, despite its best efforts (with limited resources of brainpower, but an overabundance of arrogance which works against them to a MASSIVE extent) is now a bona fide Headless Chicken, at a loss to know how to counter effectively the imminent closing stages of the investigation.

The more they are backed into a corner, the more ferocious they become, flailing out at anyone who crosses their path.

They are fighting dogs. They possess no culture, no moral compass, no rational, analytical thought, no feeling of obligation to support justice for the probable death of a tiny, innocent child.

Most people would not want these people as their friends.

It says something about the McCanns that not only do they want these thugs on their side, but that this is all they can get on their side - even after all these months of publicity, media manipulation and all the posturing as victims.

Even the Pope has distanced himself from them. (Didn't that one backfire in a big way, Kate and Gerry?)

If the McCanns are proved guilty in a court of law, they should further stand trial for endeavouring to pervert the course of justice.

This is not financial fraud.

It is not making a quick buck without letting the Inland Revenue in on the deal.

It is not doing forty miles an hour in a thirty miles an hour zone.

It is beating the public over the head in a very targeted and viciously personal way in order to deny justice to a little girl who is in all likelihood dead.

How will these people be judged in a court of law as witnesses to Kate and Gerry's character?

The law is actually pretty clear - it says you must not expose your children to the risk of serious harm. The NSPCC interpret this very well for parents in a helpful booklet on their webpage. It emphasises that this means that under no circumstances must you ever leave babies and young children alone. It also says that a bright 12 year old could perhaps be left for short periods but another maybe not. This very much echoes the thinking in the Children Act 1989, that children are all individuals and have differing needs. The overarching principle is that in any legal case concerning children their welfare is paramount and any parental needs very much secondary. So, a couple split up and they both argue to the court they need the child. The court will look at where the child's needs can best be met, not the parents. Again with children who are considered mature enough to express a preference they will be consulted as to where they would like to live.

Kate and Gerry McCann have always put their own needs first - they are in clear conflict with the law which is designed to protect vulnerable children.

You are quite right about the nanny state phenomenon. When I moved from South Africa to the UK, I had quite a shock about the rights(or lack of) parents have over here. Next to nothing-the "authorities" are in control of literally everything re your own offspring. They teach you how to feed them,discipline them,teach them morals,and if they do indeed develop problems how then by a cognitive behavioral therapeutical approach(only) to dissolve and cope with these matters. Why,oh why do these same authorities then turn a blind eye when a 3/4 year old child has been neglected/left alone that may result in her disappearance/death?

Good point - if you want to take care of an abandoned animal from a sanctuary you are put through a series of checks but if you want to have a child, or indeed become a doctor, you can just do that. For either, emotional intelligence is needed in abundance, something the McCanns are sadly lacking.

hope4truthI "adopted" a kitten here eight years ago, gone through interviews before they were satisfied that we were okay enough to provide this little kitten a good home. I also took in a rescue Weimeraner -an even longer process. But hey, no one asks whether people or even teenagers are mature enough to have a baby. What a strange,pretentious system

It is bizarre really isn't it. Look at the trouble you have to go through now to be allowed to drive. Now I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, cars are very dangerous things in the wrong hands. But we only pick up on bad parents when it is too late, when they already have children and started seriously abusing them and come to the attention of the authorities. Is there a case for saying you have to pass a test to be a good parent before you can have children? Maybe more emphasis could be placed at education in schools for older children - parenting classes. I think this has actually been trialled and is certainly a good idea IMO. Would teenagers just want to take on the responsibility of a baby when they learn exactly what is involved? UK has an unacceptably high rate of teenage pregnancy. There is a pervading irresponsible attitude towards what an important job being a good parent really is.

Yes it is odd, shame is most parents do a really good job but some do not have a clue...

Viv

Nice to get my feelings out I am so sad about all of this but when I think about Madeleine and what she went through I get cross at all the spin and cant believe a 3 year old is not seen as the victim.

Hope - I think it does help to acknowledge your feelings because we all have a deep sense of both anger and sadness at her treatment. Two nights before she went missing Pamela Fenn says she was sobbing pitifully for best part of two hours...that she ran away and hid from Kate and Gerry at bedtime and then..It is very difficult to deal with feelings towards a couple who could treat this little lovely this way, I know we all get very upset and wish she could come back.

Nite Nite and look forward to reading you both tomorrow and thanks for your contribution to what has been a great discussion here tonight.

Yes as you say they are two great charities campaigning for childrens' rights and well worth supporting. I have always supported the NSPCC and the educational role they seek to adopt in addition to child protection in individual cases. Bit by bit public awareness is improving but there will always be people who put children at serious risk and we must all be alert to this and do what we can.

www.timesonline.co.uk wrote about politicians and others who think they are influential undermining - corrupting, allegedly - the Jersey child abuse investigation.

Sound familiar?

McCann Machine of unique 'victims' got preferential treatment from UK contacts, yet they claim no such thing exists; they are just nice, cuddly, innocents...yeah, sure, just like the Jersey jobsworths, protecting 'friends of friends' at the expense of children, and fair minded inquiry, including the sincere public who gullibly believe that adults protect children. Most parents do, and they should grow up, and get over their sentimentality, and recognise that only tough rational thinking will defeat child neglectors and abusers.

As you can see, I have limited sympathy for gullible fools. Time for adults to grow up, and protect children, not their own cuddly cosy view of the world.

Yes it does sound all too familiar. It is really shocking that adults could perceive the need to protect other child abusing adults comes ahead of the need to procure justice and safety for defenceless little children. The figures for complaints in the Jersey case are positively horrifying.

I join you in having no sympathy for gullible fools who believe the spin and cannot even attempt to see the situation for what it is, or understand children are the victims here, not perverted adults. Those who seek to protect them are equally perverted.

I will have a look at this article and post and have also found a good article on the Mari Luz case in Correio de Manha which I am sure people will be interested in. It sounds like she was tortured - hair and finger nails missing - really terrible the poor little angel.

I really do not want to believe that but do not deny the possibility. It is right that we also enquire into this case, particularly given how the McCanns and the Retardos sought to involve themselves and provide self-serving spin from it. Words fail me!

Let us continue to seek truth and justice for all murdered and abused little children.

You might think your repulsive lengthy rants with your vindictive lies about Alsabella are worth posting on here but I am afraid I do not agree. Your whole blog has nothing to do with Madeleine McCann or her parents it is just devoted to your hatred of myself and Alsabella. Stay in your House of Filth venting your hatred of others. You are sick and deranged.

What Did Happen to Madeleine McCann

Professor David Barclay, Prominent Forensic Investigator told Martin Brunt of Sky News:There are two options:1) She came to harm at the hands of friends or familyor2) She was taken by a passing paedophileHe went on.. both are really unlikely, but we know she is gone

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE AGAINST US, DID YOU HEAR THAT?

WHERE WERE YOU MUMMY/NASTY BLOGGERS

HOW TO POST

Click on one of date archive tabs to the right (the little diamond things) and a list of posts will come up under that date i.e. click 2011 then click July, then click on the post you want to read, this will put the post and all the comments on the main page. Then scroll to the bottom and click add a comment.

If the post is on the main page, just click on the heading and it will bring up comments under that post, again, just click add a comment at the bottom.

Don't have nightmares

THE MCCANNS TOOTHY AND DELIGHTED GRIN

AS THEY PROMOTE THEIR MONEY PEDDLING MADDIE BOOK JUNE 2011 NEVER TOO LATE FOR A GOOD CASHIN

From the Portuguese Police File - seen by a witness loitering with intent....

What a great e-fit Gerry

WHOOPS GERRY'S MASK SLIPPED

HE FOUND IT AGAIN..GERRY THE EVANGELIST

WITH A BEATIFIC GRIN OUTSIDE THE WHITEHOUSE SOFTLY HUMMING "WE'RE IN THE MONEY" C. July 2007 when dreams and fantasies were at their zenith

12.5.07 ECSTATIC ON MADDIES BIRTHDAY AS TENS OF THOUSANDS ROLL IN .... £260 PER HOUR

THE SAME DATE THE FUND WAS CREATED, YES MADDIE'S BIRTHDAY

.After a single dose of COCAINE there may be enlarged (dilated) pupils & pale cool skin...

and here is another one

a dead ringer for Gerry's mate Russell O'Brien, Missing from the table when Maddie went missing No wonder the McCanns wanted to release another load of e-fitups

Nanday enjoys wrecking my plant

but I love him!

LAST IMAGE OF MADELEINE ACCORDING TO KATE MCCANN TAKEN ON THE MORNING OF TUESDAY 1 MAY 2007

THAT NIGHT MADDIE WAS SOBBING PITIFULLY DADDY DADDY, TWO NIGHTS LATER THEY REPORT HER MISSINGTemperature at the time only about 17-20, so how come that "sunburn"? Is it fake suntan cream hiding bruising to her arm but they could not be bothered to do her legs. Notice the pure white hand, very odd! Even more odd, why feature the red dress picture, made up and aged about two and ignore this genuine last pic? This couple even lied and said she only answers to Madeleine when know she actually answers to Maddie. Who believes they actually want her to be "found"?

My view in Brief..and the best post to this blog IMO

Viv, regarding Mrs Fenn on the night Madeleine was crying for over an hour, which stopped when she heard the parents return. As we have said before, could someone have been leaving, but could someone have been leaving with Madeleine. Perhaps Madeleine was drugged, which would account for the crying to stop suddenly, and removed.

This blog does not pursue any agenda, I do not pretend to be Pro or Anti McCann and I most certainly do not sell books or ask anyone for cash, it is just my search for the truth the way I see it and an answer to all the lies and spin we have to endure on this case - often pure and deliberate rubbish that is written by many on blogs and forums to mask the truth brainswash people to believe the unbelievable and of course, cashin.

There is an overwhelming amount of evidence the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, but there is no satisfactory evidence that confirms she died in the apartment. As the Portuguese Prosecutor has just pointed out, they could have been charged with kidnapping and trafficking Madeleine. Goncalo Amaral has behaved in an unconventional way for an ex police officer to expose Kate and Gerry McCann and there is no doubt that as parents, there is something incredibly unconventional about them!

People see what Gerry McCann wants them to see, but which cannot be proved against him, it is his mirage to feed his Fund. Maybe a few police officers, early to the case, also saw it his way. But what he, his friends and his wife really did will be their undoing.

Justice for Maddie, The Twins and all exploited and abused little children whether they are dead or alive.

Detailed procedures on how UK investigate Complex Child Abuse Cases

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SCARY HUH!

Too much pupil Gez...

ANOTHER LUDICROUS GAFF

It is true that we have requested a meeting with the prime minister to show him the strength of our case, to explain Kate and Gerry's innocence and yet all we've been offered is a medium-level-consular meeting, which we rejected.