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On the male's pedigree...did they breed the Father to a Daughter??? Budweiser Van Damme?

Yes, yes they did There is a TON of linebreeding going on in that pedigree... yikes. Pretty much every dog is heavily related to the dog they were bred to.

OP, there is some SERIOUS inbreeding going on here. Breeding a dog like this is best left to an EXPERT who will know what will happen when you compound those lines so heavily.

01-20-2014 01:43 PM

RubyTuesday

Patrolman424, I'm definitely in the minority here when I state that there are pet breeders I think highly of & actually prefer. These breeders put a lot of thought, time, money & effort into their breeding programs. These knowledgeable, experienced breeders consistently produce long lived, healthy, sound dogs of outstanding temperament & ability. The pups don't come cheap, nor should they, imo. I'd much rather pay their prices than 'save' some money going with a breeder that lacks the knowledge or experience to reliably produce what I want in my GSD.

Please don't breed until you're certain you can do it right. It's otherwise a disservice to your dogs, their offspring & your customers.

I've owned dogs for 20+ of my adult years. Several close friends are breeders. IF I wanted to breed it would still require years of training & studying to do it right! Even done right there's more than a little heartbreak in it.

Everything I know about these dogs and their parents is good on health and temperament. Here is a pic of the pedigree. First is the mom and then the dad for my male.

On the male's pedigree...did they breed the Father to a Daughter??? Budweiser Van Damme?

01-20-2014 01:27 PM

wolfstraum

Patrolman...so glad you have a nice place and have found some nice pets you love...they are still pups at under a year and therefore babied and NOT of an age to breed right off the bat.

The AKC is a database for registration - it has NOTHING to do with quality control....much like the department of motor vehicles...it records ownership of an item of x type and date of manufacture, ownership etc....

There is much more to breeding than just throwing two dogs together....it is not "high and mighty" or snobbery or any such thing when you are cautioned that this is not an ideal match....

You bought a GSD because you admire the image of the breed. That image is established by a "Breed Standard"....breeding dogs should meet the standard to a great degree....and breeding partners should complement and compensate for each other. How do YOU KNOW your dogs meet this standard???? That is why people go to dog events...to have an outside objective evaluation of the dogs physical appearance.

There are many health and temperament problems that plague the breed.....how do you know your dogs are free of these problems, or do not carry the genetics for them? Again, that is why we health test, x-ray and attend events - to have an objective, educated critique of the dog.

Just wanting to make puppies to sell for low prices is not an admirable goal nor do you do anyone any favors - least of all the poor pups that are sold cheaply to people who do not educate themselves as to what a good GSD is and very possibly people who do not make a firm commitment to a low priced pet.....

Look at statistics for euthanasia in this country...look at facebook at all the poor dogs dumped in shelters....a very very high percentage of the dogs dumped and put down are coming from breeders who resent breeders charging $1000 and up and who breed inexpensive unproven back yard dogs....

Yes - this forum is very pro for educated responsible breeding because people here LOVE THE BREED. If you are adversarial because of pricing, wait until you have some issue with these dogs - or a whelping problem with a baby female too young to be bred and start with the thousands of dollars in vet bills....and end up with pups that are not worth what you have in the litter.

Sorry if you are offended.....I hope you stay around, read more and see what breeding is really all about .....I am offended when people only want validation and will not be open minded enough to learn, and I am offended and dismayed at all the dogs bred needlessly and then dumped off, PTS or just abandoned who are frightened and hurt because someone is only looking to "sell pets"

Some of the people on this forum have lost their minds. My Shepherds are just as good of a representative of the breed as any other full blooded dog. I'm going to breed them and sell them to loving families for a lot less than what you would charge for your idealistic pups. Thanks for the opinions, but I don't agree.

so the new loving families can be saddled with hip, elbow and temperament issues??
not to mention allergy and stomach problems that come from breeding willy-nilly just because you have two dogs that happen to resemble GSDs

01-20-2014 02:55 AM

Chip18

Well if we are doing the "I'm not a breeder thing... Our GSD is a rescue from a BYB, he was a throw away because he has Ataxia , I don't know what happened to his litter mates?

My discuss with and understanding of what real breeders are about is because of Boxers. I just grabbed a paper and got a Boxer got him checked and Parvo! I could have taken her back but she was mine so we fought Parvo and lost, two weeks of heart break and pain and Heidi was gone.

I went back to the paper a year later ( yard was contaminated with the virus) still did not know what a BYB was and did better the second time " I asked about Parvo", no Parvo this time I did better.

But, DM struck Struddell at about 8,5 years and she passed away last month. DM is a genetic trait, (that's why you health test to see if the parents carry a negative trait) I'm not going to live long enough to keep buying dogs by asking about each defect one at a time! BYB's have destroyed the Boxers life span, they are a 10 year dog now with very few exceptions! I'll get another Boxer cause I love their goofy nature but it will be from a breeder that does health testing!

It would appear that so far GSD are not 10 year dogs but I'd be willing to bet that if BYB's keep jacking them up...they will be!

This is a little off topic, and maybe a dumb question, but why do his pedigrees look that way? They look completely different than my pedigrees. Mine came straight from the AKC. They look as though a third source did them. Why is that?

This is a little off topic, and maybe a dumb question, but why do his pedigrees look that way? They look completely different than my pedigrees. Mine came straight from the AKC. They look as though a third source did them. Why is that?

01-19-2014 10:07 PM

Twyla

I am not a breeder either. Instead, I am the owner of a beautiful GSD who is a complete nerve bag. He is a product of someone, who like you, probably thought they had the best dogs and wanted to breed 'just that one time' and make a little money. They had no clue what type of temperament their dogs would produce, nor did they understand what was needed by the puppies. As bad a head case as Woolf is, I have no doubt his littermates were messed up as well. Luckily, I rescued Woolf, many would have had him pts.

What are you going to do if puppies your gorgeous dogs produce have temperament problems, may be pts? Or is the $$ the only thing you see?

That 'over a $1000' per dog? Just a drop compared to what it costs for the training required for a dog that has major temperament issues. Are you able to provide any support at all if there is temperament issues?

If you want to be responsible, take your time, learn about the breed, train your dogs. Get involved in a club close by. Become passionate about the breed instead of just seeing $$. That is the best thing you can do for the dogs you have now.

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