acutally rose that fits-- atleast for this season. remember gaius talking about eternal life when revealing her secret... it fits, particularlly with all the religious metaphorin' going on on that show. somehow tho, it still just seems sloppy to me. the ultimate jesus allegory, for me, is cool hand luke, but with the protagonist, there isn't the death, but there are the miracles, and there is the suffering. it seems like, if that was the theory BSG was working with, that it wasn't fleshed out enough. but it's easily the best explanation i've heard, rose, by a mile.

one thing that always bugs me with films is the "11th hour solution" the slap-dash sort of wrapping things up for the sake of putting the card that says "the end" on the screen. in hindsight it doesn't solve or resolve anything, it just leaves a bad taste in the viewer's mouth. i know it's tv and there are probably a dozen writers on the thing, but if we invest our attention and our time, the least they could do was be consistent. i'm with star: if that means that they get it right and leave loose ends, then by all means leave them loose. i'd rather have that than something cheap or forced.....and this was both.

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

once again, i should reiterate that i don't jones like some of you about science fiction, but i've got into this show second hand. is it like second hand smoke that sci fi shows are infectious? i thought the last 45 minutes of the show was lame and trite. such a redundant commentary about earth, humans, the repetitiveness of destructive behavior, and how we are better living a simple life. they should've just left the show to 1 hour and left some kind of cliffhanger for the movie.

btw, BSG the plan sounds cool.

rose, mama thought starbuck was an angel. i would say starbuck was an angel more than jesus.

Last night while I was cooking, I had a revelation: Starbuck wasn't an angel. She was Jesus!Okay, not exactly Jesus, but she got the Jesus treatment. She was an actual woman - a woman with a destiny and a mission. Part of her destiny meant that she would die on old Earth, but after she crashed there, the Powers That Be chose to resurrect her in a new body (since the old one was burned up) and send her back in order to fulfill her mission. Once she was done, she disappeared. Just like Jesus! That's why everyone could see her. It all makes sense!

It was so hard not looking in this thread for the last 2 days.... just saw the finale tonight.

Wow. I agree with Sheff, RV, I feel disappointed with the last 45 mins or so. Before that, however, I was riveted. Liked the battle getting into the Colony, loved the showdown between Boomer and Athena, loved the Opera House manifestation/reinterpretation and got chills when Starbuck punched in the coordinates accompanied by All Along the Watchtower. I quite liked the moment the Chief figured out Tory killed Callie as well. Okay, now I do feel like a geek, but truly the episode had me at that point.

Which makes the longwinded character wrap up on Earth so disappointing. I mean, I liked the characters and wanted some closure, but that was excessive. I think it boils down to the fact that I was increasingly more into the plot, the previous earth backstory and the whole mystery around Starbuck in particular. I agree with RV that I understand why she disappeared but it still felt like WTF. And the poor Chief!

Agree too that Cavil's suicide was too random.

I'll probably be back once I check out The Plan, Caprica etc on the interwebz...

ETA: Oh, also? I was sure I recognised the melody playing over the Caprica flashback intros...maybe part of the score from Alien? I thought I recognised it from some sci-fi film I've seen anyway... okay, now entering uncharted depths of nerditude.

Lunia, Sheff voiced the same problem with the last hour. He could have easily done without the last 45 minutes.

By the by, just because I think I understand why they did what they did with Starbuck, I still think it was crap. I agree, GT, that they wrote themselves into a corner & didn't know how to get out. Unfortunately, I feel like I saw that coming. My expectations were low so that's probably why I wasn't too disappointed.

I agree Rose: Cavil's suicide didn't seem to fit. It felt like they just reached a point and and killed him off to move on with the story. The entire last hour felt off to me. As far as the Caprica preview I was a a little put of by it I thought the how would be something complete different.

i thought it was ok, a bit disappointing. what bugged me was that it was so corny at times. "today is the first day of the rest of your life.." really? really? the script actually said that? um, ick. and i hated the afterwords, the whole thing with 6 and gaius in our time giving us the message, incase we hadn't gotten it yet... keeeerist....

the whole what happened to old earth i thought was adressed when adama and laura were talking, how that was the real or first earth, but "earth is a dream, this is earth..." thing, which i'm fine with. plus, you have to assume with the story's this has all happened before, and will again, you have to assume that's where the whole cylon war first started, they fled to caprica, found earth, left and found our earth. but i didn't like the kara thrace disappearing thing at all. after all the 6 and gaius "angels" never manifested physically, so it just makes a huge gaping hole in the angel theory. it's sloppy. that said to me, oops. painted ourselves into a corner, didn't we? please don't look behind that curtain....

as for the tory thing, that didn't bug me, i figured they were still transferring data, and were preoccupied. but i agree with you about the cavil thing. he would have kept going, figuring the cylons would start to attack when the info was cut off... that part i thought was well done. i was thinking ok, peace, but when he saw calie killed, i was like....oh SHIT! and the war was on, which i thought more realistic. i just thought they should have left well enough alone. they found our earth, and were our ancestors....but as it stood we are all part cylon i guess.... hmmm...

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

GT, sometimes I really miss Larry, his brother Darryl, and his other brother Darryl.But I'm getting WAY off topic!

I think anyone who hasn't seen the finale should know better than to enter this thread right now, so I'm not going to use spoiler bars.

All in all, I was content with the ending. It didn't answer all of our questions, but I didn't expect it to. There were a few things that bothered me, though. For instance, when Chief started to choke Tory, why didn't anyone intervene? Why didn't anyone break them up and force them to continue with the download? And why did Cavil (Dean Stockwell) commit suicide in the midst of the confusion? That last point felt especially out of character. I mean, his whole goal was the survival of his race - a race with few members left - but then he offs himself? Does anyone have a theory on that?

Sheff was annoyed and disappointed. They never addressed everything that occurred on old, nuked Earth - especially the stuff with Kara. I have chosen to accept that she was some sort of angel/spirit-guide-thing (Leoben called her an angel in the past, remember?) who was sent to take them to their new home. God or whatever worked through her. And once her mission was done, she melted away. It doesn't make a lot of logical sense, but I don't think it's supposed to.

I'm rather surprised that they decided to spread out the population all over the globe as quickly as they did. I hope they educated themselves on survival techniques - hunting, gathering, farming, medicine, basic construction - during those years of floating about in space.

Hooray for the movie! It'll be cool to see things from the Cylon perspective. I'm really looking forward to Caprica now, too. Eric-fuckin-Stoltz, babies! Woot!

i should also let you know this isn't exactly the end. thanks to your questions i did some poking around, and discovered the plan, a two hour BSG movie that will air in the fall...

QUOTE

The movie begins just after The Destruction of the Twelve Colonies, with two Cylon agents discussing the problem of the remaining humans, both on the planets, and those who have escaped into space. The movie shows the initial storyline of the reimagined Battlestar Galactica from the Cylon point of view. Edward James Olmos states: "When [Battlestar fans] see The Plan, they're all going to have to go back and watch the entire series again."

ETA: i'm scared.... in an interview with the guy who plays tigh, he says;

QUOTE

I can't say too much, but I can say it ends. [...] I've said to Ron [Moore] a few times over the shooting, "You said at the beginning of the show there's going to be a beginning, a middle and an end. Are you going to stick to that?" And he's replied, "Yeah, we definitely intend that it finishes."

and it's not so much the previews, syb, but the tag line, which is "you will know the truth...."

and newhart was brilliant, but because it was a great little joke for anyone who saw the bob newhart show, besides, how can you not love suzanne pleshette?

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

In the first new season 4(second half) episode Gaius and others did studies (meaning Gaius couldn't tamper with them)following the discovery of Earth on the remains on radioactive Earth that showed the that all the bones found were cylon... so I still want to know: who made them.

We don't get the previews you get in the US, hopefully we get all the answers!

The ads have said that we will learn the truth. But how much of the truth? Can they possibly tie up all of those loose ends in only 2 hours? Will certain things be left hanging in a way that they can be addressed in the new series? It will be fun to find out!

The only series that was ever able to pull of the It Was All A Dream ending was Newhart. That was a fucking brilliant way to end that show. But if they try to do that to BSG, there will be virtual riots all over the internet. Crockery will certainly be thrown in protest.

i think they have to answer most of the questions, since the promos have been saying that they will answer all questions.

i think some of your questions were answered already: unless i misunderstood something (and if i have please correct me),

the final five built the "organic" cylons, modeling the final 5 on themselves as a kind of eternal life. the 13th tribes (do you mean the 12 colonies?) were humans, chased by cylons. i would suppose that the people who built the temple were cylons AND humans, remember in the civil war(s) they were fleeing from planet to planet; and i don't think the dreams/premonitions/prophesies about the the opera house and hera are just that (the discovery of cloaked figures, chasing a new generation in a (soap)opera house, etc), after all they have that whole religious framework that lead them to that planet, and i would think that we kind of have to see their earth is our earth, after all, it fit with all of their myths, and prophesies. speaking of which: linky!

i do want to know what the song is about since it's not just the cylons who have some sense of that song, namely kara, and her dad (if that's not a planted memory).

i'm just hoping they don't pull a "St. Elsewhere" and have it all be a delusion of president roslin...

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

Sybarite, I'd love it if they could answer all of those questions. If they leave things too open-ended, I think people may be angered because it'll look too much like sloppy writing. I don't expect EVERYthing to make sense, though. There will always be unanswered mysteries in life, so I expect some with this show, too.

they've been explaining that in the last few seasons by the five, they designed the cylons based on humans, and humans can't have children with cylons, hera was an anomaly. that's why they want to dissect her.

i really don't know what to expect. i'm wondering if all the stuff the prophecy about kara thrace, if she really is going to lead them to death.

i suspect that the rescue mission will result in galactica and the people in her getting killed with the cylons holding hera with an afterwards that says that without them the renegade cylons and humans made peace and eventually found out how to have mixed children...

which means there can be a sequel if they choose someday. with the prequel series, i think they have other stories to tell, and i suspect (and hope) they'll come back to this time frame.

i'm super excited tho. can't wait! i might get some wine and watch all the eps they are showing friday

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

Thanks for the info, ladies. By the by, I didn't mean to imply that I thought the Cylons were direct clones of humans, but that their very design was based on humans - with a bit of human flesh/DNA/what-have-you helping them along the way. Seeing as Cylons and humans can create children together, there has to be something in their biological make-up that makes this possible. Of course, then they found Earth and now I'm really not sure WHO came first.

Anyway!

Sybarite, I'm doing my best to not make any predictions at all, lest the show not live up to them. I think you're on to something, though. Especially the bit about Gaius.

It was only revealed a few epis back that the 13th tribe cylons living on Earth originally had resurrection technology, but then began reproducing so stopped using it--and eventually forgot how to use it. When the final five heard about Earth's impending destruction, Ellen re-learned the resurrection tech ensuring the final five would be 'born again.'

They mentioned in the same epi that the the final five were fed back into Caprica by Cavil (w/out their memories, which he also erased) starting with Saul and Ellen 40 years ago, for the reasons GT states. Dunno why they age, but the final five are more 'human' (e.g Saul and Ellen's drinking and combativeness) than the other, wholly engineered numbered cylons (although all cylons, that is the 13th Tribe, must have been engineered, way back in the way... /mind-boggle)

Good points about the original Tigh and Boomer--also, Starbuck was a dude originally too (which backs up the Cylon Daniel=Kara theory. although I'm not buying that anymore...)

I loved loved loved the moment when Kara starts playing 'All Along the Watchtower' on the piano with her angel-dad the week before last. Chills!

i believe the cylons developed the process of resurrection because they couldn't reproduce (which is why hera is so important) how? beats me, they just did.

are cylons just human clones? no, actually. in the first few episodes they show baltazar having sex with 6, her spine glows red. unless you can do that...(which might be kinda cool)

how long were the final 5 on caprica? you mean before the war? i would suppose about a life time. why are their memories so limited? because they weren't supposed to know whey were cylons. you have to understand they were supposed to go "undercover" with humans. people did not know that cylons looked like humans until after the war. until then they were just the big silver looking dudes.

i don't know if you've seen all of the series, it sounds like you might have missed the miniseries that was before the series itself, which answered some of the questions. it's part of the plan eluded to in the opening credits.

how are they able to age? well assuming that their flesh is similar to ours, gravity would do the trick. failing that, programming?

you can also look up all those nagging questions on the BSG wiki, or failing that, wikipedia has a pretty extensive list of posts on both the new and old BSG. (actually, i like wikipedia better)

thanks for the article, rosey. i think the most interesting point is not one by the post's author, but by one of the commentors, who talks about the lack of black people as strong characters, reminding us that boomer and tigh were both black in the mini series. i think that is a more important question and i wonder if that will change in the spin off...

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

Until one month ago, I had never seen an episode of BSG. At my husband's birthday party, we mentioned this to a friend of ours who owns every episode on DVD. He lent the discs to us & we watched them pretty as quickly as wel could. Because of poor timing, we have not seen the first 2 episodes of this current season, but we caught the others on Hulu & our cable system's Sci Fi on-demand channel.

Since I've been forced to digest so much so fast, I'm not even quite sure what to say. I still feel really fuzzy on how the Cylons came to exist in their current form. Who developed the process of resurection? And how? Are Cylons really just clones of human beings? As for the Final 5, how long did they live on Caprica? Why are their memories so limited? How were they able to age at the same rate as humans during their years on Caprica? I know these points haven't really been addressed on the show, but I wonder why. Will all of the answers be revealed to us before the show ends?

The recent events with Kara have been especially mind blowing. It's so awful to see her struggling, questioning what she is, whether she's dead or not, Cylon or Human or otherwise. On top of that she has to watch her husband lying in that poor of goo, plugged into machines & talking gibberish.