Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.

Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[WARMACHINE & HORDES] Now with even GIANTEST robots

The steampunk fantasy continent of Immoren, created by PRIVATEER PRESS, is the setting for two tabletop miniatures games: WARMACHINE and HORDES.

WARMACHINE and HORDES are played on a 4' by 4' gaming table, usually with some terrain - forests, trenches, rock walls and so forth - dotted about the battlefield. The players deploy their armies of miniatures across the board, roll dice and have at each other with gusto.

While each is counted as a separate game in its own right, WARMACHINE and HORDES use a compatible rules set and can be played against each other. The key differences between the two systems are warjacks/warbeasts, warlocks/warcasters, and FOCUS/FURY.

Warjacks are the eponymous WARMACHINES: giant steampunk robots which the armies of the Iron Kingdoms use to wage war, controlled by powerful battle-wizards known as warcasters. In HORDES, warriors from the wild places of the world fight alongside hulking monsters called warbeasts, whose savage instincts are held in check by warlocks.

Lastly, FOCUS and FURY is the most glaring difference. Warcasters possess a magical energy called FOCUS, which they can use to cast spells, increase their armour, or allocate to their warjacks to grant them an increased chance of hitting/damaging stuff and perform a variety of devastating power attacks. On the other hand, warlocks use stuff called FURY. FURY is similar to FOCUS in that it allows warlocks to cast spells, but instead of giving it to their warbeasts to increase their performance, warbeasts generate their own FURY when they are forced to boost dice rolls or perform power attacks. During his or her next turn, the warlock will drain off the fury from his warbeasts and use it for spells and whatnot, and the cycle repeats.

The problem is, if your warlock doesn’t drain all the fury from his or her beasts, there’s a good chance the monsters will hulk out and mindlessly attack those around them, friend or foe. So we like to say that while Warmachine is a game of resource management (deciding where to spend your limited pool of FOCUS), Hordes is a game of risk management (can I afford to leave FURY on that beast this turn?).

Hopefully that all makes sense. Now, let’s meet the inhabitants of the Iron Kingdoms.

The playable WARMACHINE factions include:

CYGNAR

A wealthy, populous, and advanced nation, Cygnar are known as “the crown jewel of the Iron Kingdoms”. They are well known for their advanced technology which has ensured their place as one of the major powers in Immoren. Cygnar are very much the 'combined arms' faction in Warmachine, able to field a variety of troops and warjacks that fill all rolls - ranged combat, melee combat, support, etc. - reasonably well. If phrases like "Gun Mage", "Chain Lightning", "Rapid Fire", and "Storm Glaive" make you sexually excited, you might be a Cygnar player in your heart of hearts.

Unfortunately for Cygnar, their success and wealth has earned them the animosity of most of their neighbours, such as...

KHADOR

Khador is a large, wintery nation which bears an uncanny similarity to stereotypical depictions of Russia. The harsh and icy climate has produced a tough, rugged people who are fiercely patriotic and filled with disdain for the weak southern nations. The Khadoran military is characterised by huge, ponderous warjacks with nigh-impenetrable armour and which hit like a ton of bricks; supported by infantry ranging from massed Winter Guard conscripts to elite infantry like the deadly Widowmaker Snipers and the mighty Man-O-Wars. Khador have also recently made strides to modernise their military with more long ranged (if somewhat inaccurate) firepower.

United by the dream of a new Khardic Empire, the Khadoran people have embraced a policy of aggressive expansionism, which unsurprisingly brings them into frequent conflict with the other nations of Immoren.

THE PROTECTORATE OF MENOTH

Formed out of a civil war with Cygnar, the Protectorate of Menoth is the youngest of the Iron Kingdoms. Essentially, the fanatical devotees of Menoth, the creator of man, were exiled to a barren wasteland to the east of Cygnar. There they found oil, diamonds, savage tribes to convert, and built up an army to crush their heathen enemies. Praise Menoth! Protectorate warjacks (and many of their troops) are individually weaker than those of the other factions, but by buffing their armies with their warcaster's spells and key support pieces, the Protectorate become exponentially more powerful. They also favour denying their enemies the ability to shoot or cast spells, thus throwing carefully laid plans into disarray.

Also, fire. Fire everywhere.

CRYX

The Nightmare Empire of Cryx is a series of islands off the western coast of mainland Immoren, and home to the immortal dragonfather Toruk. In addition to hordes of mindless undead thralls, Toruk's vassals include the Satyxis, a race of vicious warrior-women who practice blood rituals, the twelve Lich Lords, and a variety of other lifeforms corrupted and twisted by the dragon's blight. In battle, Cryx are fast, stealthy, and have a huge array of dirty tricks and debuffs up their rotting undead sleeves.

THE RETRIBUTION OF SCYRAH

The Retribution of Scyrah is WARMACHINE's newest faction. Formerly a fringe radical group hailing from the secluded elven nation of Ios, the Retribution has recently gained heavy political ground and acceptance in its homeland. They now have access to and support from some of Ios's greaet Military Houses, including the ranks of the fearsome Dawnguard and the power of Myrmidon Warjacks. They are technologically advanced. They have force fields. They hate you.

They're out for blood and revenge. They are fighting the good fight for the survival of their species. Their last remaining Gods are dying, and they blame human magic use for it. They are damn good at what they do.

Solid units. Some absurdly powerful solos. Well-rounded if focus-hungry Warjacks. The Retribution plays differently and can be rather rewarding for those willing to put some effort into them. They shoot harder than most factions though aren't necessarily as accurate. They are potent in melee, but lack Warcaster support to the degrees most other factions enjoy. Their Warjacks are few in variety but can all do their task well. Take care of them, because they crumple like paper once their force fields are gone. Did I mention mage hunters? Oh yes. Mage hunters.

MERCENARIES

This is a world where conflict rules and wars are always ready to flare up. What kind of moron could pass up a chance to make a buck? Mercenaries come in all shapes and sizes. Some are exiles from their own land, called traitors by those they once called brother. Some are pirates sailing on the high seas. Others are freedom fighters working to save their ruined nation. Others are short bearded fellows who like money. It takes all kinds, right?

Posts

HORDES is WARMACHINE's younger, feral brother: it's just as large and tends to bite more often. The HORDES factions include...

SKORNE

To the far east of the Iron Kingdoms lies the Skorne Empire, a sadistic race obsessed with martial perfection. The deposed king of Cygnar fled here after his brother overthrew him, and single-handedly conquered the Skorne because he is a scary, scary man. Now he’s attempting to use them to win back his old kingdom; though the Skorne themselves are starting to get other ideas in that regard. Namely, conquest of the entire continent.

Skorne warbeasts typically start off as heavily armoured, lumbering behemoths, but through careful application of support spells and abilities they can become scarily fast. Skorne infantry tends to be different flavours of melee – Praetorian swordsmen who wield two swords in an orgy of choppy death, slow but powerful soldiers like Immortals and Cataphracts, and fast, stealthy Bloodrunner assassins. They also have access to some powerful wizards who like collected the souls of dead allies (or enemies, it varies) to fuel their armies. So yeah, nice folk all round.

TROLLBLOODS

The Trollbloods have villages and communities dotted all over the forests and wild places of Western Immoren. The Trollkin are a civilised and intelligent bunch who frequently interact with the human nations, working as bounty hunters, trackers and hired muscle. However, the humans tend to treat them like second-class citizens at best and try to murder them at worst. With that sort of nonsense, and the humans ever encroaching on their ancestral homelands and sacred sites, the Trollkin have had enough and are fighting back.

Trolls are very, very hard to put down. Most of their infantry have the ‘Tough’ special rule which allows you to roll a die when they’re killed to see if they’re really dead or just faking it. Their warbeasts are even more resilient, with the ability to regenerate health. Like the Protectorate of Menoth in Warmachine, Trolls tend to rely on a number of key support pieces for synergy and buffs that allow them to become even better and punching their enemies’ faces off.

LEGION OF EVERBLIGHT

One of Toruk’s progeny, the dragon Everblight exists as a disembodied essence in the far northern reaches of Immoren. He’s been slowly working to corrupt and enslave the Nyss, an arctic subspecies of elves. Everblight is also fond of using his own blood to create monstrous abominations with rows of sharp teeth and spikes everywhere. Now all his creations are marching south, primarily with the intention of fighting Toruk, but they’re not adverse to throwing down with anyone they encounter on the way.

The Legion are typically characterised as “glass cannons”. They hit you hard and hit you fast, and can be quite difficult to hit in return, but once you do hit them they tend to die rather easily (with a few notable exceptions such as blighted Ogruns and beasts like the Carnivean). They also love ignoring terrain and line of sight. Such things are not for the children of a Dragon!

CIRCLE ORBOROS

A sectrective cabal of Druids, the Circle Orboros are all about maintaining the balance between the order of the civilised world and the chaos of the wild places. They take to the battlefield alongside the Tharn, savage worshippers of the Devourer Wurm, construct warbeasts made of wood and stone, and beasts of the forests like Satyrs and Warpwolves.

The Circle Orboros love terrain, pure and simple. Most of their army choices either or ignore difficult terrain or have some way of gaining the ability to, and more often than not they gain some kind of benefit from hiding in forests. Oh yeah, and a lot of their stuff has the ability to make forests! The Circle play a very hit and run game as they tend to be somewhat fragile; and they can suffer against the heavy armour of factions like Khador and Skorne. However, they have access to some very powerful magic – namely denial and debuff spells – to help them out a bit.

MINIONS

Similar to the Mercenaries of Warmachine, Minions are a rag tag collection of hunters and wild creatures who will ally with the various Hordes factions for fun and profit. As of Hordes mk.II, they’re being promoted to a real faction. They’re mostly divided into Farrow (pig people), and Gatormen (fairly self-explanatory), bolsterd by badass wilderness guides, mad scientists and tentacle monsters. While their range is somewhat limited, they can still field reasonably competitive armies with a few unique tricks and abilities.

So, what now?
Sounds fun, I hear you say. But you’re probably also asking…

How do I get started with all of this?
Well, all of the rules you need to get started are in WARMACHINE: Prime mk.II and HORDES: Primal mk.II, the core rulebooks for each game. I’ve mentioned Mk.II a couple of times; it’s the second edition of the game, which was rolled out over the course of 2010.

If you want to know more about the individual factions, you should take a look at the 'Forces of…' books. While the main rulebooks contain a good selection of warcasters/warlocks, warjacks/warbeasts and troops from each of the factions, the Force books contain every model from that faction that has been released or is going to be released in the near future.

You can also purchase the Mk.II faction decks. All models in Warmachine and Hordes come with a handy quick-reference card, so you don’t have to have your whole collection of books on hand while you’re playing a game. The 2010 Mk.II faction decks contain current cards for all models that existed prior to Mk.II, allowing old hands to convert to the new system with minimal fuss and new players to see what their faction can field.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Make sure it’s the 2010 Mk.II faction deck, not just the Mk.II faction deck. Those are old cards. Yes, I agree it doesn’t make sense, it’s a long story. Anyway, some unscrupulous retailers have tried to rip folks off in the past so be aware of that when purchasing your cards.

Also, faction battleboxes contain a warcaster/warlock and some ‘jacks/beasts, along with the quick start rules. So you and some friends can pick up a box each and start duking it out in no time. There are currently battleboxes for all of the Hordes factions (barring Minions), and the old Warmachine starter boxes with metal models have been replaced with all new spiffy plastic one for Cygnar, Khador, the Protectorate and Cryx (though you can probably find the old ones if you want to).

Whew, I think that’s everything! Here’s some useful links and general stuff of interest:

Hello, players. Look at your Caster. Now back to me. Now back at your Caster. Now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if you stopped using cookie-cutter-Casters and switched to Captain Jeremiah Kraye, he could win like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re on a battlefield with the army your army could be as awesome as. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an army of Warjacks that have cavalry rules, making a Light Jack run-n-gun list not only possible but gloriously attainable. Look again, the Light Warjacks are now Heavy Warjacks charging for free at +5 inches with boosted attack rolls. Anything is possible when your Caster plays like Captain Jeremiah Kraye and not sissy traditional Casters. I’m on a horse.

A friend of mine is interested in getting to Warmachine and is looking at Cygnar based on liking how Kara Sloan and the Cyclone look.He likes to run Tau and gun-line armies, I was going to suggest he try out something like this list.

Kara Sloan -6
Cyclone 9
Hunter 5
Firefly 5
Reinholt 1

I've got next to no idea about how Cygnar play and if this would work as a 15 point list? Or is it going to lack the stopping power to deal with heavies. What would people suggest changing?

For nine points it isn't bad at all. Moving that base even with pathfinder will be tough, however.

Oh yeah I don't think it is IMBA or OP or anything, I just think it is really cool. I haven't read the whole of NQ yet, and I haven't played much WM lately - can it shoot its guns at different targets?

Unfortunately this thing comes out when Tomb Kings are coming out too, so I'm gonna be putting down a wad of cash at the FLGS.

Totally random question about the battle engines. Has it been determined if/how Armor Piercing is going to interact with the bigger bases? I believe the rule only specifies what happens against Small/Medium/Large bases.

For nine points it isn't bad at all. Moving that base even with pathfinder will be tough, however.

Oh yeah I don't think it is IMBA or OP or anything, I just think it is really cool. I haven't read the whole of NQ yet, and I haven't played much WM lately - can it shoot its guns at different targets?

Unfortunately this thing comes out when Tomb Kings are coming out too, so I'm gonna be putting down a wad of cash at the FLGS.

It can, however the cannons actually have a left and right arc that they are restricted to. The guy with the rifle has 360 los.

DragonPup on March 2011

"I was there, I was there, the day Horus slew the Emperor." -Cpt Garviel Loken

Just a quick question about Reinholdt. I'm interested in using him but I want to clarify his role before I plan poorly. His special abilities state he has to be B2B with the Warcaster he's benefitting. So for example: I'm running Siege with his glorious rocket cannon, or Kara and her superduper rifle: Would I take my 'Reload' shot on the Warcaster's activation or on Reinholdt's? activation?

And would that men you'd have to move Reinholdt into place first then move the Warcaster up to be B2B in order to get a reload shot and keep them B2B?

I've always activated Reinholdt first, made sure he was B2B with my Warcaster and then reloaded. When I then activated my WC i just took two shots during his activation, spending the additional focus to get another shot.

Just a quick question about Reinholdt. I'm interested in using him but I want to clarify his role before I plan poorly. His special abilities state he has to be B2B with the Warcaster he's benefitting. So for example: I'm running Siege with his glorious rocket cannon, or Kara and her superduper rifle: Would I take my 'Reload' shot on the Warcaster's activation or on Reinholdt's? activation?

And would that men you'd have to move Reinholdt into place first then move the Warcaster up to be B2B in order to get a reload shot and keep them B2B?

I over-analyze the most trivial, simple crap, I know

These questions are answered by the wording of Reinholts abilities. It works like this i believe

Activate Reinholt and move him into B2B with the warcaster, now use one of his special abilities, the ruling states that Reinholts abilities can only be used while in B2B with the warcaster.

The rule text on the various abilities don't state anything about being in B2B contact with Reinholt, just that the Warcaster can use the special abilities during their activation that turn. The extra shot would be taken during the Warcasters activation, because its rule text is the same as Lucky Charm and it'd be really weird for you to have to wait until Reinholts activation to roll the 3rd dice for damage.

Basically, after Reinholt has granted his ability, you don't need to stay in B2B.

Also Armour piercer affects Huge bases, look at the actual rule text it's "effect medium or Larger" This is because unlike certain companies, Privateer Press are capable of thinking ahead, and their rules aren't written by chimps.

I've always activated Reinholdt first, made sure he was B2B with my Warcaster and then reloaded. When I then activated my WC i just took two shots during his activation, spending the additional focus to get another shot.

You don't need to spend focus to use Reinholdt's shot. Reload grants you an extra shot ignoring ROF, not just another point of ROF.

A friend of mine is interested in getting to Warmachine and is looking at Cygnar based on liking how Kara Sloan and the Cyclone look.He likes to run Tau and gun-line armies, I was going to suggest he try out something like this list.

Kara Sloan -6
Cyclone 9
Hunter 5
Firefly 5
Reinholt 1

I've got next to no idea about how Cygnar play and if this would work as a 15 point list? Or is it going to lack the stopping power to deal with heavies. What would people suggest changing?

The cyclone looks tempting, but It's more of a support peice. It's there for the two pow 12 templates, not direct attacks. Switch it out for a defender, which plays to Kara's strengh of High killing power at ridiculous range.

The hunter is a good choice with Sloan, since it give a punch comparable to a defender against medium and large bases for three points less.

The firefly is a dubious choice. You don't have any stormsmiths to get the best use out of it, and using it as a melee jack is too focus-heavy for Kara. I'd switch it out for the Black 13th and a stormsmith. The Black 13th can put damage on enemy lights, and the stormsmith can stop enemy heavies from running/charging to engage.

I've always activated Reinholdt first, made sure he was B2B with my Warcaster and then reloaded. When I then activated my WC i just took two shots during his activation, spending the additional focus to get another shot.

You don't need to spend focus to use Reinholdt's shot. Reload grants you an extra shot ignoring ROF, not just another point of ROF.

A friend of mine is interested in getting to Warmachine and is looking at Cygnar based on liking how Kara Sloan and the Cyclone look.He likes to run Tau and gun-line armies, I was going to suggest he try out something like this list.

Kara Sloan -6
Cyclone 9
Hunter 5
Firefly 5
Reinholt 1

I've got next to no idea about how Cygnar play and if this would work as a 15 point list? Or is it going to lack the stopping power to deal with heavies. What would people suggest changing?

The cyclone looks tempting, but It's more of a support peice. It's there for the two pow 12 templates, not direct attacks. Switch it out for a defender, which plays to Kara's strengh of High killing power at ridiculous range.

The hunter is a good choice with Sloan, since it give a punch comparable to a defender against medium and large bases for three points less.

The firefly is a dubious choice. You don't have any stormsmiths to get the best use out of it, and using it as a melee jack is too focus-heavy for Kara. I'd switch it out for the Black 13th and a stormsmith. The Black 13th can put damage on enemy lights, and the stormsmith can stop enemy heavies from running/charging to engage.

I thought regardless of ROF you had to spend a Focus to get an additional attack with a weapon beyond the initial attack?

Totally random question about the battle engines. Has it been determined if/how Armor Piercing is going to interact with the bigger bases? I believe the rule only specifies what happens against Small/Medium/Large bases.

Reread the rule. Armor Piercing halves the armor of medium or larger bases, not medium and large bases.

So stupid question. My girlfriend and I started assembling the battle groups I bought. We started with the cryx one and it turns out the slayer is really front heavy. Way more than I expected.

Moving forward we'll be more careful how we pose them but are there counter weights that are suggested? The super glue didn't seem to bond to the base appropriately.

I've always kept larger pieces of flash just for these type of issues. Glue the flash under the base on the opposite side, issue solved. If you don't have the extra flash look for something small enough to fit under the base to counterweight, or even find something to work into the basing for the model that acts like a counterweight.

Caenem on March 2011

But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
Nemlock for online gaming

I've been looking at pHaley recently. The fact that she's got Arcane Shield AND deadeye makes her seem tailor-made for stormblades. I recently finished collecting the Stormblade deathstar, so Here's my first attempt at a list using pHaley.

The list is pretty straightforward. I use Temporal Barrier to set up for a good charge with my Stormblades, while flanking with my rangers and the b13 to take out support. The stormclad lets me deal with multiple hard targets at once, and the rangers + b13 can clear out infantry swarms, especially with temporal barrier and deadeye support on feat turn.

The ideal feat turn has temporal barrier up, with deadeye on either the rangers or the stormblades, spare focus on the Stormclad. Everything shoots twice. With good positioning, I should be able to take out the enemy front line, and be out of reach to their counterchargers.

So stupid question. My girlfriend and I started assembling the battle groups I bought. We started with the cryx one and it turns out the slayer is really front heavy. Way more than I expected.

Moving forward we'll be more careful how we pose them but are there counter weights that are suggested? The super glue didn't seem to bond to the base appropriately.

I've always kept larger pieces of flash just for these type of issues. Glue the flash under the base on the opposite side, issue solved. If you don't have the extra flash look for something small enough to fit under the base to counterweight, or even find something to work into the basing for the model that acts like a counterweight.

So stupid question. My girlfriend and I started assembling the battle groups I bought. We started with the cryx one and it turns out the slayer is really front heavy. Way more than I expected.

Moving forward we'll be more careful how we pose them but are there counter weights that are suggested? The super glue didn't seem to bond to the base appropriately.

I've always kept larger pieces of flash just for these type of issues. Glue the flash under the base on the opposite side, issue solved. If you don't have the extra flash look for something small enough to fit under the base to counterweight, or even find something to work into the basing for the model that acts like a counterweight.

Small coins tend to make good counterweights for under a base.

I had this issue building the angellus, but alas British coins were kinda too big so I ended up smashing airgun pellets with a hammer and glueing them underneath.

You also have the old standby of using rocks/deadguys/other base detailing to act as a sneaky counter weight.

Totally random question about the battle engines. Has it been determined if/how Armor Piercing is going to interact with the bigger bases? I believe the rule only specifies what happens against Small/Medium/Large bases.

Reread the rule. Armor Piercing halves the armor of medium or larger bases, not medium and large bases.

Ha ha, I have no idea why I didn't notice the "r" in "larger". Guess I just read what I expected to see.

My extent of this would involve Ashlynn and a Nomad, plus Gun Mages marshalling two Mules. Forge Guard would be the melee troops. But... that's not entirely short people, if that's what you're aiming for.

OK guys, I think I need to crowd source this. I'm having a lot of issues beating the local Cryx player with my circle army. We normally play 35 or 50 points, can you guys give me some tips and or lists that are good against Cryx, becuase honestly at this point I feel like there is pretty much nothing I can do. Thanks in advance.