Bike looks fantastic. Just wondering what frame, fork and wheelset will weigh...
Also,how much and availability?

I would venture to say that if weight was a real concern, this is probably not the bike for you.

That said, this looks awesome.

Originally Posted by XJaredX

There are Lefty conversion kits for the Pugsley etc so I imagine it would, one way or another

Yeah, it should. P321 or Mendon Cycle is selling/making some Pugs Fatbike Lefty clamps for Lefty Max (clamped on, not bonded steerer clamps) forks. IIRC, Mendon (not affiliated, other than receiving awesome service from him) has some Lefty Max 140 alu forks with PBR dampers at a good price to go in those clamps. You just have to build the correct offset on the front wheel, and limit the travel of the Lefty Max fork so the tire doesn't hit the crown.

The forks are normally 140mm of travel, minus whatever it takes to clear the tire. For a regular 29er tire, the safe reduction is 30mm, leaving 110mm of travel.

KM fork is about 90 mm wide and a Knard tire has 3" = 75 mm. Height should be about 15 mm more an the KM fork has about 50 mm room. So it will fit without problems So I will build a Knard/Rabbithole frontwheel for my KM as soon as the parts are availiable

Hurry knard!

Originally Posted by DerBergschreck

KM fork is about 90 mm wide and a Knard tire has 3" = 75 mm. Height should be about 15 mm more an the KM fork has about 50 mm room. So it will fit without problems So I will build a Knard/Rabbithole frontwheel for my KM as soon as the parts are availiable

I would venture to say that if weight was a real concern, this is probably not the bike for you.

That said, this looks awesome.

Yeah, it should. P321 or Mendon Cycle is selling/making some Pugs Fatbike Lefty clamps for Lefty Max (clamped on, not bonded steerer clamps) forks. IIRC, Mendon (not affiliated, other than receiving awesome service from him) has some Lefty Max 140 alu forks with PBR dampers at a good price to go in those clamps. You just have to build the correct offset on the front wheel, and limit the travel of the Lefty Max fork so the tire doesn't hit the crown.

The forks are normally 140mm of travel, minus whatever it takes to clear the tire. For a regular 29er tire, the safe reduction is 30mm, leaving 110mm of travel.

IIRC Mendon once said he could fit gazzis easily with the stock clamps.
Still need ot reduce travle but other than that... maybe Mendon will drop by and confirm!

I'm just curious as to whether or not it would be worthwhile to try to fit a Knard on the stock Alex Adventurer rim of the Ogre... if it did fit, i wonder if it would be too narrow a rim to even take advantage of the tire.

This news just in:

from Surly HQ, the OD of the Knard is 30.4", about the same as a BFL, and will fit in a Pugs.

That 30.4" is basically measured from the ground to the top of the tire, so those who wonder if it'll fit your existing bike just need to measure up from the ground to see if your bike has the clearance.

Really interested to hear the price on these tyres and rims, hoping that it's more reasonable than what Fatbike stuff costs, i.e. aroundabouts your avg decent rim like a Stans around $70-80 and hopefully less than $70 for the tyre.

I've received some stupid, negative NEG rep and comments before (normally not signed by the loser), but this one for my reply to the thread below just absolutely amazes me - guess someone doesn't like me Normally a good sign you're being honest and forthtright

Originally Posted by Loser

Don't think they ship these to the third world. Not to peckerheads like you, at any rate.

Originally Posted by LyNx

Most definitely sign me up for at least one of these Knard tyres when they're available, most definitely want one to put on the front of the KM with 2.55" WW LT outback

One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

Really interested to hear the price on these tyres and rims, hoping that it's more reasonable than what Fatbike stuff costs, i.e. aroundabouts your avg decent rim like a Stans around $70-80 and hopefully less than $70 for the tyre.

I've received some stupid, negative NEG rep and comments before (normally not signed by the loser), but this one for my reply to the thread below just absolutely amazes me - guess someone doesn't like me Normally a good sign you're being honest and forthtright

well.. anyone who judges other people by what they can afford should be dealt w/ harshly.

Considering that everyone is all amazeballs that they had the mold to make this tire, I'm guessing it's going to be closer to fatbike tire than normal tire. I'm figuring $100 USD and if it falls within $20 higher or lower, so be it

Considering that everyone is all amazeballs that they had the mold to make this tire, I'm guessing it's going to be closer to fatbike tire than normal tire. I'm figuring $100 USD and if it falls within $20 higher or lower, so be it

The low volume will drive the price high. A cheap fatbike tire is $90 and a bling one is $150. If they offer the Gnard in 27tpi and 120tpi versions they probably be priced along the same lines.

I'm not a mind reader nor do I play one on TV. It just seemed like kind of sharp edged anti-Salsa comment to me about how they jump on whatever bandwagon Surly develops. I think they're both great companies that happen to share a common owner. Maybe Salsa doesn't give Mike new free stuff to test like Surly does or something and it makes him sad? I don't know exactly the genesis of the Salsa slap.

Originally Posted by mikeseeOne of those has never been within a country mile of my shop nor my bikes, so I have no clear idea.

But I'd guess yes. Especially going forward--we all know Salsa will hop onto Surly's bandwagon and capitalize any way they can.

Originally Posted by XJaredX

I was being sarcastic, I've my share of Surly and Salsa stuff. Although it just occurred to me that maybe the Surly/Salsa/QBP thing isn't common knowledge. But it certainly is known by Mikesee

as far as the tire goes, I think one of the things i like most is the tread pattern. small, square knobs. they said "moto inspired." I think there is a reason every dirt bike tire there is has basically the same square knob pattern. because you don't need ridiculous knob shapes!!!!! they should make all sizes of this tire and people would buy them. perhaps even buy lots of them. simple, simple, simple!

So, with promises of mounting a 29er plus front wheel/tire are we rehashing the 69/96/55 concept on a bigger level?

Can I be the first to say 30.4/29 = 39er, or 30.49er, or 59.4er, or 29erplus/29er, or can we have "E" added to the mix in millimeters? 698E Will Carver make a Killer E?

Just ride the damn bike... LOL?

Krampus, Krampus oh so Fine...
...your Big Tires are just Divine

Well, opionion make bikes interesting. We like to personalize.
I may an odd one wearing logo-less t-shirts in daily life, but most people like to be a billboard of their preference, or let thir bike extend their chosen identity.

I am extremely grateful Surly made 29x3.0 happen. It looks to have been worth the wait double over. They don't do things half-azzed.
698mm must happen also. Krampus likely is not the ideal framee for it though, as they seem to keep an eye on also fitting regular 29" tires. This means they'll need to use limited BB drop. With 29+ the BB is likely high-ish, as many playful bikes are. I would not be surprised if they used 68mm BB drop as works so well in regular sized for the KM. Sticking full-on 32"/698 wheels in that, will make it a bit toppy. Well, a lot. The skinny slick 698 tires would still be a fun addition for those in a one-bike marriage or dorm room, but such wheels would totally be wroth dedicated plus sized versions of Pacers, Cross-Checks and Karate Monkeys. I happen to own all in 622, BTW. I promise you, it will be as cool as 29+, just in its own way. 29+ is the not-skinny-anymore approach, 32" would be the tall people's fitted wheels, or medium folks' cool rollers. 36" is already out there, Waltworks has a decent knobby tire on the way, and even that clumsy size has a market. Unicyclists love it, oversized riders yearn for it. Undersized riders, just ride stairases up with sub-par quality heavy-azz tires. 36" when taken to commercial quality parts and a nice selection, will push some older bikes out of a stable for sure. Why commute (sub-urban and rural) the 700c skinny bike when the 36" performance bike is on stand-by? The float on those should be similar to 29+, just require gentler terrain and more speed to really shine I suppose.

Isn't it great that we have sizes to pick from now? In MTB's at least. 650B is just superfluous, the difference with 26" is so small that it will simply not happen that it's closer to a sweet spot than 29". The sweet spot for many riders will be above 29. 29+ is a gentle way to mentally prepare for what will come. As is 36". It's out there, and it works. For the right rider (friggin' tall) it's already better than any alternative.

Mukluk half fat 29er

I've been running a Mukluk half fat front, 29er rear. I can run 29er front as well. The Kanard might be be a tight fit in the rear. This set up is much faster for dirt. I have not tried the rear fat, 29er front set up. Maybe with the Kanard?

I've been running a Mukluk half fat front, 29er rear. I can run 29er front as well. The Kanard might be be a tight fit in the rear. This set up is much faster for dirt. I have not tried the rear fat, 29er front set up. Maybe with the Kanard?

yeah.....me too! hard to wait for interbike or whenever we will get full numbers on the frame geo. i hope the chainstays aren't super long. but they probably are to fit that beefcake tire.

Try the pic pix counting method, some of the pics are pretty good for this.

But first, have you ridden a rigid bike with (really) long stays? I found it to rail the corners. Just placed the rear wheel in the most aft position on a Monocog29. the difference to wheelieing was there, but it's not just downsides. Not at all. Comfort, climbing stability, downhill quietness, it's quite profound how that changes with long stays. Be open to it.

Riders between 5' and 6'8', for a given frame model, all share one thing: chain stay length. Do the math on that. It's one of those things like crank length. You should try the size that fits you, and try and get used to it :-)

Try the pic pix counting method, some of the pics are pretty good for this.

But first, have you ridden a rigid bike with (really) long stays? I found it to rail the corners. Just placed the rear wheel in the most aft position on a Monocog29. the difference to wheelieing was there, but it's not just downsides. Not at all. Comfort, climbing stability, downhill quietness, it's quite profound how that changes with long stays. Be open to it.

Riders between 5' and 6'8', for a given frame model, all share one thing: chain stay length. Do the math on that. It's one of those things like crank length. You should try the size that fits you, and try and get used to it :-)

you make a good point. I switched to a 29er, which also had longer stays than my older bike and I immediately noticed that my rear wheel would spin out easily; I compensated by keeping my weight further back, and my climbing is overall just as good.

The question of getting the correct cs length for your body is one that doesn't seem to have a clear answer. The various factors that affect center of gravity and how mobile your center of gravity is do not clearly depend in any straightforward way on how tall you are. I would guess that a taller ride can move their center of gravity fore and aft more than a shorter rider, all else equal, which would suggest that finding your optimal cs length matters more for shorter riders than taller riders, but not that shorter riders need a shorter or longer cs than a similar taller rider.

To me it seems that with such a large number of variables one's only option is to make an informed guess based one prior experience and expert advice. If you're really short, you may want to pay more attention.

Regardless, at 5'8" I'm not worried at all about being able to change my riding style to make a Krampus work for me.

you make a good point. I switched to a 29er, which also had longer stays than my older bike and I immediately noticed that my rear wheel would spin out easily; I compensated by keeping my weight further back, and my climbing is overall just as good.

The question of getting the correct cs length for your body is one that doesn't seem to have a clear answer. The various factors that affect center of gravity and how mobile your center of gravity is do not clearly depend in any straightforward way on how tall you are. I would guess that a taller ride can move their center of gravity fore and aft more than a shorter rider, all else equal, which would suggest that finding your optimal cs length matters more for shorter riders than taller riders, but not that shorter riders need a shorter or longer cs than a similar taller rider.

To me it seems that with such a large number of variables one's only option is to make an informed guess based one prior experience and expert advice. If you're really short, you may want to pay more attention.

Regardless, at 5'8" I'm not worried at all about being able to change my riding style to make a Krampus work for me.

I am 6'4" and I know not a single person with longer legs than myself without being inches taller. I have done XC racing up the steepest hills, and have learned to shift my weight the hard way.

IMO wheels, cranks and chainstays are all neglected height-specific parameters on the bikes. Standardized to one size fits no-one for cost and simplicity. No reason why S and M frames should share the same wheels, someone is drawing the short straw. There should be a wheel size difference of about 2" for a 2" frame height increment. Wheels are just less than your inseam. 2"in the frame is 4" in the body.

Tall riders will need to man up, and deal with long chainstays. Learrn to loft a front wheel by will, not by merely allowing it to loft.

Mr. Jones, meet Mr. Knard and Mr. Rabbit Hole. Gentlemen, we'll be spending a lot of time together

I was thinking that ) But adding 1/2"+ of tyre radius will have a similar effect as slackening the bike a degree, nothing major, but the Jones is pretty spot on as-is. I like the idea of this tyre, but not so sure the effect it may have on the handling. It'll be an expensive experiment.
650B x 3.2"ish would match a 29er diameter better, as a half-fat option I think it's the way to go.

I was thinking that ) But adding 1/2"+ of tyre radius will have a similar effect as slackening the bike a degree, nothing major, but the Jones is pretty spot on as-is. I like the idea of this tyre, but not so sure the effect it may have on the handling. It'll be an expensive experiment.
650B x 3.2"ish would match a 29er diameter better, as a half-fat option I think it's the way to go.

Good points. And I have also been thinking about 650b. Tire and rims will no doubt be coming in those sizes seeing as how 650 seems to be the way the big hit bikes are going to go. For me, depends on the wait. I would build my Rabbit hole/knard wheel this winter. Jeff runs/has run 50mm 29er rims on the front and back of his bike with Ardents. He's very fond of the 72mm fat front with the BFL & 50 mm/Ardent rear. I couldn't anticipate the changes that would come with handling using the Knard/Rabbit Hole, but the thought of slacking the front of Jeff's bike a bit is kind of appealing. In fact, I'm going to run my headset spacers under the head tube with the truss as jeff mentions on his blog. Supposed to slack the bike just a bit.

Oh, and with the Rabbit Hole/Knard I could lose at least 400 grams of rotational weight over my current fat front set-up.

I was thinking that ) But adding 1/2"+ of tyre radius will have a similar effect as slackening the bike a degree, nothing major, but the Jones is pretty spot on as-is. I like the idea of this tyre, but not so sure the effect it may have on the handling. It'll be an expensive experiment.
650B x 3.2"ish would match a 29er diameter better, as a half-fat option I think it's the way to go.

The Surly input on the Krampus I've seen says the Rabbit Hole + Gnard is the same outside diameter as a BFL. Jeff runs a BFL on the front of the Jones so a Krampus-esque wheel/tire there shouldn't change anything.

Will a Rabbit Hole fit on the back of a Jones?

My friend has run both a BFL and a HDU on the front of his Jones and not had any issues with the difference in steering geo using slightly bigger or smaller tires.

The Surly input on the Krampus I've seen says the Rabbit Hole + Gnard is the same outside diameter as a BFL. Jeff runs a BFL on the front of the Jones so a Krampus-esque wheel/tire there shouldn't change anything.

Will a Rabbit Hole fit on the back of a Jones?

My friend has run both a BFL and a HDU on the front of his Jones and not had any issues with the difference in steering geo using slightly bigger or smaller tires.

A 47mm Kris Holm rim with a 2.55 WTB Dissent rubs on the rear of my Ti Jones. The same tire on a P35 on the rear of my steel Jones does not rub.

My friend has run both a BFL and a HDU on the front of his Jones and not had any issues with the difference in steering geo using slightly bigger or smaller tires.

With those large tires there has got to be some sag involved too. IOW with rider mounted the tire must flatten out a bit and lower the bike a bit because the pressure is so low. I don't know personally though, I haven't had an opportunity to ride one.

There aren't many 'stock' 29" frames that the RH/Knard are gonna fit into.

Not without some serious muffin top action anyway.

I had to run a 2.4 Ardent out back on an amphibious tour of Canyonlands this spring. No match for the Knard--none. 50mm rims pictured.
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SNq_d97ImuGnqVby-y1N-RltJjMXiDiNlir3tmyGpnU?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2niNYvNdgx0/UBQjFfjiIoI/AAAAAAAAg0k/3qEUjE0nuUI/s800/IMG_7181.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

There were enough hard surfaces on this route that full fat made no sense--too heavy, too slow, too big of a magnet for goatheads. And enough soft surfaces that 'normal' 29" didn't make much sense either. The Krampus platform ticked all the right boxes, but since the frame/fork weren't available yet I did the next best thing.

The combined speed and float are indeed the answer to the question that I've been asking the last few years. Now that this platform exists I've begun plotting other, similar, but better tours to places I'd not have wanted to go before.

In fact, I'm going to run my headset spacers under the head tube with the truss as jeff mentions on his blog. Supposed to slack the bike just a bit

No Jones-tech hijack intended here, but I have mine with a couple of spacers under the lower cup, feels good but only tweaks it ~1/4 degree, it's subtle but I doubt I'd really notice much now if I changed it back. A full degree I do start to feel though.

Vik, that BFL looks quite close to a big 29x2.4" OD based on fork clearance in the pic, there's less in it than I thought. Headset spacers / cup depths can balance things a bit and minor differences you get used to. The bigger tyre volume willl be more noticable and fun.

By the way, JNCarpenter, I covet your bike. Probably the most flexible bike I've seen. Full fat, 29er, fat front, now the Rabbit Hole/Knard. I guess the Pugs is the closest production bike to being able to do all these things. I wonder how your bike would do with 650b?

If I were a bike producer, I would be striving to create a bike that has the flexibility to do all these wheel sizes well. Surly really is opening doors for others.

So are these new rims singlewall? Judging them by the cutouts, they are. Many long years as a bmx rider has left me highly skeptical of single wall rims. In bmx, double-wall is a mantra we repeat for several hours each day--it used to be "triple wall" until we realized that 40lb bikes weren't necessary.

I would definitely opt for a large marge over a rolling daryl in the fatbike world, simply b/c I don't trust single wall rims, even if they are super wide.

Maybe I'm mistaken that these are single wall or maybe i'm mistaken that single wall isn't strong enough. Can anybody fill me in?

There aren't many 'stock' 29" frames that the RH/Knard are gonna fit into.

Not without some serious muffin top action anyway.

I had to run a 2.4 Ardent out back on an amphibious tour of Canyonlands this spring. No match for the Knard--none. 50mm rims pictured.

There were enough hard surfaces on this route that full fat made no sense--too heavy, too slow, too big of a magnet for goatheads. And enough soft surfaces that 'normal' 29" didn't make much sense either. The Krampus platform ticked all the right boxes, but since the frame/fork weren't available yet I did the next best thing.

The combined speed and float are indeed the answer to the question that I've been asking the last few years. Now that this platform exists I've begun plotting other, similar, but better tours to places I'd not have wanted to go before.

Gonna be a good fall. And winter. And spring...

I heart Surly.

MC

This is what I was hoping to see. I am already thinking along these lines for some bikepacking trips.
Thanks for the input, Mike.

Much better color than the "Xmas tree green" seen on other prototypes. Do you know what the colors will be wehn the frame is produced? Will there be a black on a one with a different color - like other Surly frames?

Much better color than the "Xmas tree green" seen on other prototypes. Do you know what the colors will be wehn the frame is produced? Will there be a black on a one with a different color - like other Surly frames?

The metallic/flecked green paint-job version was there yesterday also; I was told that that will be the production color. That metallic green is really nice in sunlight; photos do not do it justice. Photos of the metallic green always seem to show the color up much darker than it really is. The light-mint-green shown here is just a one-off job. I didn't ask about any other colors. But if previous bikes are any indication, I extremely highly doubt there will be color choices available

No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.

I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.

Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.

I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.

OD is 30.4" Surly says their 3" 29er rubber has the same outer diameter as a Big Fat Larry and that it will work in a Pugs on their 50mm rim.

Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.

Everything I've read says that this was the precise design challenge that Surly posed for themselves.

I know this is a probably a dumb question to most of you, but their other self-imposed challenge was to use a "no-offset fork." What does that mean, exactly? What's the value of drastically increasing trail figures? Not trying to be coy - I really just don't know.

Or, by "offset," are they talking about side-to-side shifts and wider front hubs, like the Pugsly uses?

The Moonlander fork is non-offset 135mm and it should work. I have one on my Pugs with a BFL on a Rolling Daryl rim so the Knard/Rabbit Hole combo should fit fine. I switch it out and run it on my Niner MCR occasionally for the fat front setup and it works there too.

So are these new rims singlewall? Judging them by the cutouts, they are. Many long years as a bmx rider has left me highly skeptical of single wall rims. In bmx, double-wall is a mantra we repeat for several hours each day--it used to be "triple wall" until we realized that 40lb bikes weren't necessary.

I would definitely opt for a large marge over a rolling daryl in the fatbike world, simply b/c I don't trust single wall rims, even if they are super wide.

Maybe I'm mistaken that these are single wall or maybe i'm mistaken that single wall isn't strong enough. Can anybody fill me in?

Granted single wall are not as strong as double wall and if they made them really thin and also drilled/cut double wall they might get the weight down some. But weight is an issue when rims get wide and with more tire to protect the rim you can get away with more. I have some 29er Kris Holm FR 47mm rims on as set of wheels and they are 895g each for those rims. That rim plus a heavy tire make for some heavy ass wheels.

[QUOTE=jollynut;9549538]Just got back from a wee blat in the northern Japan hills with the Sam's Bike crew (a local bike store) and the Surly Japan Tour team. I took a few sneaky pics of their Krampusessses.

I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.

Originally Posted by vikb

Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.

Originally Posted by Cloxxki

No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.

Guess my only concern is that the fork offset might be optimized for the larger diameter and when going to a 29er wheel you would get slow steering because of the decrease in trail due to the shorter tire height. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they tweaked the offset for the Krampus or not.

Guess my only concern is that the fork offset might be optimized for the larger diameter and when going to a 29er wheel you would get slow steering because of the decrease in trail due to the shorter tire height. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they tweaked the offset for the Krampus or not.

Less trail doesn't give you slower steering. The lighter tire/rim should also steer more easily than a fat front. I'd expect a more lively ride.

Looking for opinions, guys...I'm most likely going to purchase either the Krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient I get and if/when I sell my Stumpjumper). I read (on here I think) that the Rabbit Hole/Knard will fit on the front of the Karate Monkey and a Rabbit Hole with a 29x2.5 tire (I think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since I'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a Stumpjumper? lol

looking for opinions, guys...i'm most likely going to purchase either the krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient i get and if/when i sell my stumpjumper). I read (on here i think) that the rabbit hole/knard will fit on the front of the karate monkey and a rabbit hole with a 29x2.5 tire (i think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a km vs a krampus and just making it like a krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since i'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a stumpjumper? Lol

Looking for opinions, guys...I'm most likely going to purchase either the Krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient I get and if/when I sell my Stumpjumper). I read (on here I think) that the Rabbit Hole/Knard will fit on the front of the Karate Monkey and a Rabbit Hole with a 29x2.5 tire (I think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since I'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a Stumpjumper? lol

My KM rubs in the rear with the wheel slammed foward in the slots. This is running a velocity p35 and racing ralph 2.4. I don't think the rabbit rim with a 2.5 will fit even pushed backwards.

A Krampus with skinny rear tire, or 2 skinnies for that matter, will ride differently from a KM with 29+ front or 2 skinnies. Apparently Krampus will get a (very?) slacked out front end, whereas KM is actually one of the steeper ones still on the market.
I just want to know Krampus' fork specs. Especially the rake (offset has proven too confusing a word in fat bike-context). Sortof hoping there will be significantly more rake than on the KM (43mm), but not counting on it.

Regarding a KM with a 2.5" tire on a Rabbit Hole, right now I'm running 2.3" Big Apples on Alex Adventurer (not so wide) rims on an Ogre (same as KM), and using Monkey Nuts it just *barely* clears the front derailleur. I'm not sure about side clearance, though

"thickfog" My judo ape( renamed KM) has the red velocity p-35's with spec purgatories 2.4. I use the monkey nuts, it puts the axle in the middle of the dropouts. No rubbing and about 4 mm on each side on the inside of the chainstays and clearance for a front der. too.

Would the knard work on a standard, wider mtb rim? like for instance, the salsa ride and smile at 29mm? just a thought.

You can mount it to a narrow 29er rim. Whether you like how it rides is another matter.

I just swapped some 2.4" MTB tires from a standard rim to a Velocity P35. The wide tire on a wider rim is a noticeable improvement - particularly in steering accuracy. The wide tire of the narrower rim isn't as well supported and flexes more giving a vague feeling to the bike.

The 2.4" tires on the narrower rims are totally useable, but they are much better on a wider rim.

"thickfog" My judo ape( renamed KM) has the red velocity p-35's with spec purgatories 2.4. I use the monkey nuts, it puts the axle in the middle of the dropouts. No rubbing and about 4 mm on each side on the inside of the chainstays and clearance for a front der. too.

Yup, I now run mine mid way in the drops with no issue. I should clarify, I only had rub when cranking uphill super hard with the bike set up single speed.

Tires will be sold with frames, no tires only for the first run, and no extra tires, two tires, one frame, you go now....

Just tossing out info that I now have, didn't know if all that was already on the table.

I did a preorder, and I would suggest anyone who wants them, to chat ASAP with their local Surly slinger about calling QBP first thing in the AM. Prebooking will commence Monday AM, and likely won't last till Tuesday.