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The hit chance appears to be wonky because vs Alarielle something like 70-80% of the projectiles hit, while vs Azhag in my tests something like 10% hit. I have had limited time, but it seems like good accuracy is the norm and that Azhag has strange hitbox. So let's assume 75% hit rate for now.

To be perfectly honest I don't think this is enough of a nerf, because of all these things coming together with range, stalk, cheap cost (making them expendable and recovering their cost with the first volley) and not least the power recharge item that allows to you cast 2 of these back to back. Unless you want to feed the opponent very wom and cost efficient damage to your lord/mage/hero/monster it will still more or less create a 500 meters diameter no-fly zone around wherever these stalked little green luminarks are hiding. Most support spells have 200 meter range and most offensive spells have 100-150 meter range, so it does grant pretty extreme zone control. I think dropping range to 200 meters would be advisable too, but let's see.

Basically you could still bring 2x Shamans with power recharge item, both cast one VG, power recharge, cast another one and dish out the same 4000ish max damage. Now it would take some 10-15 seconds instead of 5 seconds just.

If ap damage is included in this formula " 95+40 dmg+AP, BvL 66 = (95+40+66)*10*0.75", then you can't multiply by 0.75 as ap has doesn't get mitigated. The correct form should be:

for non ap damage: Damage_non_ap0= 10*(95+66*95/(95+40))= 1414

for ap damage: Damage_ap= 10*(40+66*40(95+40))= 595

Apparently the spell has detonation damage of 150 (0 ap), I don't know how this works but I assume it's a one time only and not per missile

so the total non ap damage is: Damage_non_ap1= 1414 +150=1564

After applying armour: Total_damage= Damage_non_ap1 *(1-0.75*armour%) + Damage_ap = 1564*(1-0.75*armour%) + 595(If armour>>100, it's a bit more complicated but this is a good approximation)

That is the average damage if all missiles connect.

For reference, vs the giant which has 30 armour, the average damage it does is: 1564*(1-22.5%)+595=1212+595= 1807This isn't an error, when I tested it the average damage against the giant was indeed about 1.900.

So 1807/8WoM=226 damage per WoM.ABSOLUTELY BALANCED AS ALL THINGS SHOULD BE

This is miles ahead the competition in terms of WoM cost effectiveness, and is also 95% un-dodgable unlike the competition, and also comes in a stalked platform in a minimal 226g investment; again unlike the competition.

You're assuming perfect conditions. That magic cost is specific to the aforementioned giant which is exactly the type of target is its meant to be optimized for. You're omitting miss-cast chance for OC. Your 95% accuracy claim is proven where? Your proposal of an alternative is where? Naming a problem is not solving a problem.

You're assuming perfect conditions. That magic cost is specific to the aforementioned giant which is exactly the type of target is its meant to be optimized for. You're omitting miss-cast chance for OC. Your 95% accuracy claim is proven where? Your proposal of an alternative is where? Naming a problem is not solving a problem.

It does over 1k damage to basically all SE's except the big gobbo spiders. It always finds good value.

When that is done, the bonus vs large is the niche of that spell and will always make it better vs any other spells of its kind, vs large.

Dont expect any big changes, that would pretty much be dreaming. That is unless CA once again caves in, like they did most of the times.

You're being dishonest as much as I'm being pedantic. That being said, doesn't CA often balance facets of the game after controversy on the forums? We have these discussions in good faith that CA does listen and read as to what we discuss, and they have done so, correct? Your very statement is undermining what you're trying to accomplish. That's the definition of a fool. If you brush up on your language you could make an actual impact.

Well, I guess enough attention has been raised by now, now it's up to CA if they can fix GS in a good spot.

If VG is not addressed, then a lot of factions will get caught between a rock and a hard place. Between a broken magic missile and the waagh. I mean all mobile options are large, most Mages are low armor. Everything that isn't both small and armored, or has a really big hp pool is very exposed to this from 250 m range. It's not too different from fireball abuse that also needs to be addressed somehow.

I think vg needs to remain a reliable source of wom efficient damage, but at a much slower pace so that it is a soft counter and not a hard counter. If it is so hard that it forces you to use a foot general and a melee army you are forced to play into the waagh.... Which is another counter I think needs to be slightly softer to allow melee builds vs gs. The refresh timer abuse on the waagh mechanics needs to be removed as part of this.

This spell needs it damage reduced by a lot, probably about 30% minimum and needs to be able to dodge it. But leave it for now i'm enjoying 1 shoting mages in QB for now, to be fair its kind of fun to use just to see the rage in chat.

Another part of any rebalancing could be to transfer a lot more of the damage into the BvL - that way unarmoured foot characters will be safer (plus they can also hide among/behind units and gain more benefits from terrain.

Even better would be an accuracy rebalance, so that is less accurate vs cavalry characters and better vs monsters, although I don't know how easy that would be to do reliably.

Alpha can be reduced by removing the cooldown item from the shaman.

Then with the AP OC change and -50 range, you have significantly lower damage vs small targets, so infantry mages will be a viable option. At 200m range, mounted mages will be able to hang back out of range more easily.

At the same time you can't expect to have one counter costing 228 gold that hard counters both dragons and generals and whatnot costing 10 times more. We need to be realistic. There has to be some risk reward here.

At the same time you can't expect to have one counter costing 228 gold that hard counters both dragons and generals and whatnot costing 10 times more. We need to be realistic. There has to be some risk reward here.

True, which is why all my suggestions aim to maintain current damage vs armoured dragons, as it is a sustained chunking that takes a long time to do damage if the alpha is removed. Currently, it's action is as a soft counter and zoning tool vs something like a princess or malekith having free reign. It's only vs low armour, low HP that it becomes broken.

What needs fixing is the alpha and the OP performance vs unarmoured mages.

What if the range was dropped to 150m, the overcast removed, and the AP ratio re-balanced to maintain performance vs star dragon, but to protect unarmoured targets. WoM can be increased to 5 if this seems justified.

Lotus' 3 missile version will still be better against unarmoured mages than anything else, they will just be able to take another hit before they go down.

Frankly I am not convinced a gobbo spell alone should counter a dragon at all. Dragon has rather large hitbox and is slower, it is by no means immune to arrows, especially when slowed, poisoned, sundered, effigies etc. There are tools, glare should just add to them IMO, no need to wreck alone. Same goes for other targets really to a large extent.

Frankly I am not convinced a gobbo spell alone should counter a dragon at all. Dragon has rather large hitbox and is slower, it is by no means immune to arrows, especially when slowed, poisoned, sundered, effigies etc. There are tools, glare should just add to them IMO, no need to wreck alone. Same goes for other targets really to a large extent.

One synnergizing idea would be to add armor debuff to it on overcast.

I don't believe it should "wreck" a dragon either. And it does not do that currently (at least the non-OC version on 1-2 casters, which is what I was proposing). Removing the OC halves the damage rate. Rebalancing the AP ratio and BvL mitigates the damage against unarmoured targets.

It's an unfortunate fact though, that one of the go to kiting strategies people use against GS is to get a dragon mounted fireball ,spirit leech or bow lord to sit on the GS lord, as well flyby cooldown interrupts and spell attacks. There's only so much the short ranged GS archers can do, even with effigy. Most dragon factions have access to healing too, slow damage is not a massive threat to them either.

An armour debuff on OC would be another nice way to nerf OC vs low armour, although it would synergise powerfully with the rusty arrers and maybe encourage caster spam all the more to take advantage of the armour debuff from the first OC.

This is all solved if they remove the homing ability, like the amber spear.

Amber Spear also has homing.

non functional in this case than, well amber spear has random 50% chance of actually not going off so its really a non issue

Yeah, amber spears casting is garbage. A lot of the time your mage will sit on their ass twiddling their thumbs for a good 10 seconds or something after the spell should have already gone off, it's pretty ridiculous.

It's beyond me how some people are defending this spell. It was dubiously effective before the patch. The patch made it completely broken. It costs only 4 mana, it costs only 70 gold, it has 250 m range, it rarely ever misses and it can 1-shot a mage. 1 hit, literally, is enough to break many unarmored heroes. There is almost no reason ever not take this spell. A shaman with just this spell and mushrooms costs less than 400 gold and he has stalk, so you can't even prepare well for it (if it weren't for the fact the spell is so broken everyone takes it these days).

You can get 2 casters for less than 800 gold. If you have 28 mana, you can then do a quadruple cast including 3 overcasts... the first 3 are already enough to take out Alarielle on an eagle nearly 100% of the time.

As for the "it's weak against armor" defense, it's not. Overcast it still deals ~900 damage to a stardragon for 8 mana. That's more than a spirit leech with over twice the range.

Suggested fix: undo the last patch to give people at least some chance of dodging it and make the overcast version make it 100% AP without increasing total damage. Greenskins struggle with armored monsters, so this change will make the spell retain its use for this purpose without being able to 1-shot enemy mages.