Strickland, Kattie

ORAL HISTORY OF KATTIE LUE STRICKLAND
Interviewed by Chris Albrecht
Filmed by Rick Greene
Significant Productions
November 3, 2005
Transcribed by Jordan Reed
MR. GREENE: We have speed.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. Ignore the man behind the camera. (Laughter) Ok. Third time, tell me your name and where you live please.
MRS. STRICKLAND: My name is Kattie Strickland. I live at 242 South Dillon, Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
MR. ALBRECHT: Thank you very much. Now, tell me what year did you come to Oak Ridge and how old were you at that time.
MRS. STRICKLAND: It was ‘40 some years.
MR. ALBRECHT: So, you came sometime in the ‘40’s. About how old were you when you came to Oak Ridge? Do you remember?
MRS. STRICKLAND: 36, I think.
MR. ALBRECHT: So, about 36. Ok. Let’s talk about, tell me where you lived before you came to Oak Ridge. Where did you live and what did you do there?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I lived in Auburn, Alabama. We first was farming and then we moved to Auburn, up into town. I worked at the main library eight years then. From there to here.
MR. ALBRECHT: What did you do at the library at Auburn?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, I dusted and kept all the books clean upstairs. Opened up the library at 8 o’clock.
MR. ALBRECHT: How did you and your husband first hear about the work that was up here at Oak Ridge?
MRS. STRICKLAND: One of his friends came up here and when he came back he was telling them about it. Then my husband took off and came up here.
MR. ALBRECHT: Now did he come up and start working before you came up? Did he come up alone?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yes.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. First of all, what was your husband’s name?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Willie Strickland.
MR. ALBRECHT: What, how long was he up here working before you came up and joined him?
MRS. STRICKLAND: A year.
MR. ALBRECHT: What made you decide to come up here?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, when he came back, he wanted me to come back with him, and I didn’t want to leave my kids and so my mother didn’t want me to come. Finally, she gave in and told me I could come back with him. And she kept the kids.
MR. ALBRECHT: Now, did you know that you would be able to find work when you got up here?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, yes. They was hiring.
MR. ALBRECHT: When you lived in Auburn, did they actually have recruiters, did they have people come in and try to sign people up to come work or did they just hear about it?
MRS. STRICKLAND: The people just heard about it. They just come on up here.
MR. ALBRECHT: When you came up here did you know that you and your husband wouldn’t be able to live together?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yes.
MR. ALBRECHT: How were you able to get together?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, I lived in one hut and he lived in another one. I would go up every night and stay until 10, 11 o’clock, at his hut, and then he’d have to bring me back to mine.
MR. ALBRECHT: How many people lived in the hut with your husband?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Four.
MR. ALBRECHT: And how many were in your hut?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Five.
MR. ALBRECHT: Now when he took you up to his hut, did the other men skedaddle, did the other men disappear?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, no. well, everyman had a curtain you know to draw.
MR. ALBRECHT: I see.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Then sometimes we would all sit out there and laugh and talk together.
MR. ALBRECHT: So you could stay there until, what did you say, 10 o’clock?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yes. Or they’d come put me out.
MR. ALBRECHT: You mentioned that you were really torn about coming up here because you didn’t want to leave your children. Tell me about how many children did you have at the time and how old were they?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I had four children before I come up here. Dorothye, Margaret, Willie Pearl, and Emma Jean. Virginia was born after I got up here.
MR. ALBRECHT: About how old were your kids? Who was the oldest child and who was the youngest child? About how old were they?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Dorothye is the oldest. Virginia, the baby.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. We talked a little bit about you living in one hut and your husband lived in another. I want you to just pretend I’m a blind man and can’t see anything. I want you to describe what that hut that you lived in was like.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, there was four of us that lived in the hut before we moved into the pen. At night, you couldn’t lock the door. We had to leave it open so the guards could come in whenever they were ready. That was it.
MR. ALBRECHT: How big was it?
MRS. STRICKLAND: It was a big one building. It was pretty good size with four beds in there.
MR. ALBRECHT: How was the hut heated in the winter? Was it warm in the winter? How was it heated?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, yeah. We had that heater. It would get red hot and it would keep it real, real warm in there.
MR. ALBRECHT: That was a coal stove, wasn’t it?
MRS. STRICKLAND: That’s right.
MR. ALBRECHT: Who kept it fired up? Who kept the coal in it, and kept the fire going?
MRS. STRICKLAND: At first only men. When they filled it up, it would stay pretty well and wouldn’t have to put any in. It was burning coal. It would get red hot and they had a kiln sitting on top of the stove to help keep the moisture down.
MR. ALBRECHT: What were those huts like in the summer? Tennessee gets pretty hot and humid. How was it like living in those huts in the summer?
MRS. STRICKLAND: It was pretty nice because we would let the windows down. The windows were up high and the breeze would come in through it. We weren’t in there more than for sleeping because we had to get up and go to work in the morning.
MR. ALBRECHT: That’s a good point. How was the housing, the huts, was it all just black people in the huts? Were white people in the huts too?
MRS. STRICKLAND: The black people was together and the whites were separate.
MR. ALBRECHT: They had whites that were in the huts that were separate?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yeah. We had one side and then the white were across on the other side.
MR. ALBRECHT: So the white people that lived in huts, were they construction workers? What kinds of jobs did they do?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, they were electricians, carpenters, and things like that is what they did.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. Now, a lot of the people that lived in those huts, there were men that were single, and there were a lot of women that were single. How did they keep the men and women apart at night?
MRS. STRICKLAND: (Chuckles) They couldn’t. The women’s would go out and go to their friend’s hut and the guards come look in my room, and he said, “You don’t got no company?” I said, I woke up and I said, “No.” He said, “You’ll have some after while.” After while I could hear those women coming down those walk ways cussing and come and get in their huts. They’d sit there laugh and talk about an hour and then they’d go right back out. (Laughter) All of them would but me.
MR. ALBRECHT: We were talking about the stove and when we visited with you before, you told me a little bit about making biscuits and how you would give some biscuits to the guards. Tell me that story again please.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, I made biscuits on the stove and we got a thing you put on the stove and I’d cook biscuits. An FBI man come by and eat supper with me and my husband. When it would get hot, I’d sit it up there and brown behind, and then when they brown behind, I turn the face to it and it browned just like that on the stove.
MR. GREENE: She’s going to get the pans.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, good. Good because I want you to hold that pan up and say, “This is the pan I used.” I think that’s just so remarkable that you…
MRS. STRICKLAND: I think my daughter brought them. I don’t know why they want to do this again.
MR. ALBRECHT: Well, you know if we can use all what we tape here today, if we can just use that instead of what we taped before, you just look so much prettier today, we’ll just use what we shot today. I love the way you’re telling the stories. You’re telling me more than what I’m asking and that’s great. That’s prefect. When she brings in the pans, we’ll talk about that. But I also want you to tell me the story again. You told me about you and your husband making extra money. You sold beer, you sold cigarettes. I want you to tell me a little bit about both of those.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, this man he checked out and went home. He was my husband’s friend and he had a big old thing, it’s like a freezer there, you know, one of them flats. And he had a seal inside and it would hold about two gallons, two packs, four packs of beer, watermelon, two cases of cokes, and I’d set up and sell beer until my hand got so cold. I use to sell cigarettes a dollar a cigarette. They come with their girlfriends and sit there and drink beer and he asked me if I had a cigarette. I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Well, what it is?” I said, “A dollar.” He said, “I’ll get two ‘cause my girlfriend want’s one.” Oh, I made so much money. Of course, now they wouldn’t buy the beer right at the store on Saturday. My husband would just buy it up because they knew they would be coming in on the weekend and buy it. They know they could buy it much cheaper, but they like to come buy it. I was selling a dollar for the little bottles if you could open it. I sold cigarettes because at that time cigarettes had a limit and my husband’s friends who didn’t smoke would buy them for him and I had a sale.
MR. ALBRECHT: Great. Very good. Tell me a little bit about how much money you made. I know at one point you said something about you had money spread out all over the cotton. You hadn’t seen so much money. Start again while I’m not talking, ok.
MRS. STRICKLAND: On Sunday nights we’d count it up and Monday morning we’d go to the Happy Valley store and send it home. I was scared to put that bag up there until I got use to sending it home. So she could buy what she wanted for the kids.
MR. ALBRECHT: How much extra money, how much do you suppose it was that you made extra selling cigarettes and beer?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, right around $75, $80, I’m going to say. I mean that’s every cent. We use to go to Chattanooga and waiting in line for the whiskey to come in, and I’d go to Chattanooga and set my suitcase. The man put 48 cases, 48 hays in that suitcase. And when we get to that gate the guards are going to go and check you know. So we would, the man would sit it up to the front. He said, “My God. You’re loaded, ain’t you?” He set it up there because if the guard were to come in to check, it wouldn’t be mine. I wouldn’t know whose it was. And when I get through the gate, I went a fifth a man betted me I would get on the bus at the same time. I told him I would. When we got to Chattanooga and got on the line, he said, “Come on.” He said, “I’m gonna buy you a fifth ‘cause you win. It’s fair.” And I had on my big fur coat white black and I put it under my coat. That’s before I got to the gate and we all on the back seat made like we was sleeping. The guard came in and he threw the light around and went on back out the door. Oh Lord. We laughed and the bus pulled on off, because he was suppose to check everything, but he just came in with a flashlight and look at the suitcase and go on out. That’s how we made extra money. Because we wasn’t making, my check wasn’t but $27 a week at that time. $1.50 a week for rent. And we got linen changed once a week, no ever morning, ‘cause my husband left his billfold with $207 up under his pillow and the door unlocked and when he got to work he thought about it. When he got there the lady had just got there to clean up so he just went in there and got the billfold out from under there. You couldn’t leave anything out. So many room together they’d check out if their roommate would go to work and get everything they got and get gone. So I went to Chattanooga and bought a big ole trunk and my nicest little things, what I didn’t bring I kept it locked and I bought a chain and chained it to the bed. I said I’ll catch them at the bus stop with my bed and my trunk. ‘Cause they were tough. There were so many people there. The yard full, the hut full, the cafeteria full. I ain’t never seen so many people, just like the war was there.
MR. ALBRECHT: Tell me a bit about living with all the mud.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Lord, there was so much mud and rats and plank walks. I tell them the people that come later got nice place because we came in mud. Plank walks would be covered in mud where we walk coming to and fro. I get to running to catch the train and I see some coming over my head, mud coming over my head. I was running to get to the train to get to the plant. It is so much different now.
MR. ALBRECHT: It surely is. Now, you mentioned getting to the plants. I want to talk a little bit about what life was like at work. What was your job? What did you do?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well I had, I had a restricted badge and worked in the restricted department and then I worked out on the floor. We would run, that’s what me and my friend done. We swept sawdust (inaudible) in a building wider than this building and they had long mops, long from here to over there and they just run every once in a while and we just threw the wet sawdust, go down and come right back the same way. When we got through with them floors, they would shine like glass before they turned the motor on. I told them if I had known you were going to turn this motor on this morning. I sure would have laid off today. I was there when they started the motor running. I reckon that was when I had to talk so loud ‘cause it made me deaf.
MR. ALBRECHT: You talked about turning on the motor. What plant, where was that? What plant was that?
MRS. STRICKLAND: At K-27, that’s where I worked at.
MR. ALBRECHT: K-27?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yes. Only building that was named a different building name.
MR. ALBRECHT: Do you know what the motor was that they turned on? What it was doing?
MRS. STRICKLAND: That’s why we were sweeping. The electrician men was putting in electric, sawing and running that thing. Making sparks and that’s what we were sweeping up. I was there when they were building the building, you see. Then after we swept and swept and cleaned them big ole tanks. My friend, she was on one side, and we had to go to the other side of the tank to talk to one another. We rubbed those tanks. Wasn’t no dust on them things. It was beautiful in there, but Lord, it was a mess when we started.
MR. ALBRECHT: What was a typical day at work like? I mean did you just sweep all day long for 8 hours. How long was a work day?
MRS. STRICKLAND: We worked from 8 to 4. We get on the back steps and sit down. Our foreman told us, “Y’all sit down while I go to the office.” His son went to college with our, with Mr. Franks, he was the president over us. He go up there and stay an hour or so and we’d be back down there having fun sitting on the steps. The men couldn’t come to the ladies restroom. I’d get in the restroom, me and (inaudible), and he’d come back, “Where is Kattie Strickland?” He liked to mess with me. They’d say, “I think she’s in the restroom.” He’d walk on around there and come to the back. Bump, bump, “God damn it, come out of there, Kattie Strickland! I know you’re in there!” (Laughter) Oh, we had fun. We enjoyed it after we went to sweeping and cleaning up in there, but before then, it was just mud. The concrete that we walked on and came in was just so muddy. Really cleaned it up though. And Carbide came in right behind them. And that’s, I terminated out from J.A. Jones and hired in with Carbide.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, you talked about your pay. You said you made $27 a week I think you said. Did you make the same amount of money working with J.A. Jones as you did with Carbide?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, a little more, when Carbide took over. I would work every Saturday, and that was double time, making more. There wasn’t much to do at the huts, so I worked every Saturday, overtime, and I’d give two of my checks for the atomic bomb, so they say. I just got the stubs. I just got the stubs now.
MR. ALBRECHT: So you gave a day of work. You say a check. Was that for the whole week, or was that for just one day?
MRS. STRICKLAND: One day.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, we talked about how much you got paid, now who did the pay working up here in the Manhattan Project, how did that compare to working in the library back at Auburn.
MRS. STRICKLAND: My brother worked there before he went into the service and I already worked in the same organization. So they put me in the library and I was the only lady making $12 a month. I said, “Why can’t I have what my brother had? I keep the building much cleaner.” So they raised me to $13 a month and that’s what I was making when I came here working at the library.
MR. ALBRECHT: So you made a lot more money here.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Lord, yeah, I never seen so much money. I thought it was way more. That wasn’t for a month. We paid $6 a month rent down there, $6.50 at Auburn. Came up here and we paid $1.50 a week.
MR. ALBRECHT: When I read about the Manhattan Project and I see photographs there is always a lot of talk about how it was a secret and how people weren’t allowed to talk about their jobs to other people. Did that apply to you and what you were doing? Did they try to clamp down on you talking?
MRS. STRICKLAND: No. Just the sign was there when you go through the gate going to work. Said, “See nothing. Hear nothing. Say nothing.” I didn’t give it no thought. We talked like we wanted to talk when we got in the building together. (Laughter)
MR. ALBRECHT: So you didn’t get in trouble talking about…
MRS. STRICKLAND: Nobody did. I reckon they meant not to go back outside to talk to other people that were outside about what was going on.
MR. ALBRECHT: What were you told, or what did you know at the time about the Manhattan Project? I mean when you were here and the project was going on and the war, did you know they were trying to build an atomic bomb?
MRS. STRICKLAND: When I heard them talking about it, saying they’re going to build an atomic bomb and asking all the workers to give a day’s work, I just gave them two day’s work.
MR. ALBRECHT: So it wasn’t a big secret to you. You knew they were building a bomb.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yeah that wasn’t. I was there when they cleared, my friend, me and her worked together all the time and they called up to the gate that her husband was out of service you know. She went to the gate and they let him in.
MR. ALBRECHT: What, we talked about the kind of work you were doing, what kind of work were the other Blacks that were up here at the time, what kind of work were they doing?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well some of them worked at the cafeterias and thousands and thousands were doing the same kind of work we were doing. Sometimes he’d give me the restrooms and none of the other’s would take it. I just sit at the restroom door and let one in at a time. the others got jealous, “I don’t know how come Kattie Strickland stays there.” He said, “None of you all would take it.” I got tired of sitting there ‘cause I liked being out with the crowd where I could laugh and talk. I said, “If you want it you can take it.” One girl said, “Well, I want it.” So I let her have it and I went out on the floor. I worked at night, 12 to 8. No, from 8 to 4. Next week 4 to 12. Then I go on to 12 to 7 the next morning. That was the swing shift. Me and my friend, there were 100 bathrooms in the building and the office was sitting in the middle. Fifty on this side and fifty on the other side of the building. That’s what we did at night, me and my friend. In the day time, they switched me to cleaning the water fountain. It was the same many water fountains as there was bathrooms and one had a dust cleaner and I had a rag. She’d sprinkle it, and I’d wash it out. Go to the other one. If anybody was drinking out it, just skip it and go on down. We had a good time. All I wanted was to hit my clock. Run, run, run, run. I’d be the first to clock in and the first to clock out. There was one old man at the clocking thing. That man could give you them cards faster than you could clock it with that one hand. When you come in, you check them, and put them over there. When you’re coming out, he checked them and put them back over there. When I came out the building, I’d run, run, run. I’d be the first one out in the morning time, I’d run, run, run. I’d be the first to clock in. If you miss so many minutes, I think you had about 8 minutes or you’d be late. I’d look back and look at that line and be twice long as this building. Oh Lord, you could be late, a lot. That’s amazing, I’m telling you. I never worked with so many people.
MR. ALBRECHT: Let me ask you a question, I’m curious. You said you sat there at the restroom and only let one person in at a time. Why did they only let one person in the restroom at a time?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Two would get in there and stay in there you know. One going in and then out and the one standing outside could go in. Sometimes two or three would use the water closet, restroom, and stay in there.
MR. ALBRECHT: I get it. They talked.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yeah.
MR. ALBRECHT: Did they have separate restrooms and drinking fountains for Blacks and for whites?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Not at the plant, not at the plant. But outside the plant. They didn’t want you to wash at the Laundromat. You couldn’t eat at the bar in the 10 cent store. You could buy your sandwich and you had to go, couldn’t eat at the bar. It was just like Alabama when I first came up here. You just accept it. You don’t drink out the same fountain. Finally, they changed it.
MR. ALBRECHT: When was the change?
MRS. STRICKLAND: When they changed everything, you could eat anywhere you wanted, drink out the same fountain, and wash your clothes at the Laundromat like they did. We picketed a line. I picketed a line. I got over there, I said, “Lord, I hope the police is here.” First thing I see was all those men with those white things on. I said, “I ain’t going up there.” So the Oak Ridge Police got mean. There were a lot of them. What they call them things, those things on their face? The white men.
MR. ALBRECHT: You talking about the Klan?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I guess so. Ku Klux Klan.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ku Klux Klan.
MRS. STRICKLAND: And so they didn’t do nothing but stand up there and look at us. The police lined up out there too. ‘Cause the people didn’t want us to wash up there at the Laundromat up there in Grove Center.
MR. ALBRECHT: Let me ask you a question. During the war, during the Manhattan Project, not after the war was over, but during the war, President Roosevelt signed an executive order that said there would be no discrimination in the war time industries. Yet here at Oak Ridge they ignored that. They said were going to go with the local customs. Were y’all aware of that at the time? If so, how did you feel about that?
MRS. STRICKLAND: We had been done so badly, I didn’t pay it no attention. It wasn’t like it was in Alabama because we couldn’t vote. I ain’t miss voting every time, ‘cause see we were just allowed to vote when we got to Oak Ridge. We couldn’t vote before we came up here.
MR. ALBRECHT: You couldn’t vote in Alabama, but you could in Oak Ridge?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Couldn’t vote in Oak Ridge.
MR. ALBRECHT: Oh.
MRS. STRICKLAND: But by the government they had to let us go and vote.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. How many black people do you suppose were working here during the war? Do you have any idea?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, I reckon all the people that left them towns, they were here. There were more people here than I had ever seen. It was like we were at the World’s Fair. Finally, so many years, like Will Minter was here, they went to checking out, going back home.
MR. ALBRECHT: To your knowledge, did most of the black people that came here to work during the war, when the war was over did most of them go back home, or did most of them stay?
MRS. STRICKLAND: A lot of them went back. I’m not sure about how many. We were some of the early ones up here and we’re still here. When my husband moved up here, he brought my nephew. My nephew brought his friend. Then when he got here, he brought his friend. A lot of them came up here on account of me and my husband from Alabama.
MR. ALBRECHT: The ones that moved back home, why do you suppose they left here and went back home?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I sure wouldn’t know. A lot of them did move back. They went to different places, Mississippi, Memphis. I worked with a lot of them that said they were going back home. It’s thinned down quite a bit, especially the colored because I practically know all the ones that stayed.
MR. ALBRECHT: This may be a hard question, maybe it won’t be a hard question, I don’t know. If you had it to do all over again, especially considering what your life was like when you lived in Alabama compared to what it was like after you came here. If you could go back and do things over again, would you do it just like you did, would you come up here?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I don’t know. I don’t think so. I wouldn’t be able to do that now. I was young then, I didn’t mind. But no.
MR. ALBRECHT: I mean when you were young, if you could go back in time and just do it all over again when you were a young woman…
MRS. STRICKLAND: I probably would if I couldn’t do no better. After I came up here and stayed a month or so, I like it. I didn’t like the place, but I like what I was making. It was the money.
MR. ALBRECHT: Looking back on what you did, how do you feel about the work you did? Do you think it helped the war effort?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I guess it did. (inaudible) Talking about the atomic bomb? I guess it did.
MR. ALBRECHT: I think it did. What else comes to mind when you think about the war years up here in Oak Ridge? Are there any other stories, or things that come to mind that you think might be important to tell?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, after then they segregated everybody, you know, here in Oak Ridge. We were the first and so many people, my boss man when I was working at MSI, he moved to Knoxville. He said that he didn’t want his children to school with Blacks. He moved to Knoxville and he run right into it. They went to segregate them. Some of the teachers quit teaching and some of the husbands had stores. They quit teaching saying they weren’t going to teach no Blacks. That didn’t stop them; the children went right on to school.
MR. ALBRECHT: What do you think would have happened during World War II if the Manhattan Project hadn’t taken place.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, I don’t know. I gave them time for the atomic bomb. (inaudible) at the winding up. I think all the different countries got the atomic bomb.
MR. ALBRECHT: Let me back up, that was a hard question. Nobody knows what the difference might have been.
MR. GREENE: Chris, 41 minutes.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, thank you. When you were working on the project, tell me a little bit about some of the segregation that you saw. Talk to me about the cafeterias, the lunch stands, the restrooms, anything like that where you saw segregation. Tell me about it.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, of course I worked at J.A. Jones cafeteria. I bagged sugar half of the night, you know. We weren’t allowed to put but one spoon to the packet. I worked cleaning the tables as soon as everyone was through eating. I had my buggy, clean that plate, and put it in the buggy and put out a new one ‘cause the line was busy coming in. I just filled my pockets full of sugar. Men would pay me. He’d have his $1 or $2 for extra sugar, cause there wasn’t enough. I made a lot of money like that. We had our lunches fixed, they’d be on a long table and go through the line to get one. But I’d be the one cleaning up and putting plates down. I made a lot of money getting them men extra sugar. One night, the boss man was coming out and I was sitting in my room bagging, he would stand there and look. He was like, “Strickland, you’re putting two spoons in there.” I was falling a sleeping. I didn’t know what I was doing. They really didn’t want you to put but one teaspoon to one of them little bags. At night when I worked, me and this white guy had to clean, had the clean-up. I had to clean off everything and he’d fold the chairs up. There were about 80 white girls and boys and they came and ate on our long tables like that thing back there. Buddy, they messed that table up. All those cups and glasses and things, but they had dollars and quarters on every piece. Some had quarters, some had fifty cents, and some had a dollar and a half. My friend, me and him were working. He was folding the tables like them. And he said, “You want any help? You want me to help?” I said, “No.” (Laughter) I said, “I don’t need no help.” Of course, he had all those tables to fold. I was way ahead of him. He seen that money over there and he wanted to help. I made about $15 off that table. They really tip you when there’s a party like that. But I couldn’t eat the food. That’s why I had to cook at the hut, in my hut. We had a good time. I ate that food one night and it about killed me. I was at my husband’s hut. He said, “You want to go back to your hut?” I said, “That’s too far.” The men’s restroom was right there. He stood there and said, “I’m going to have to bring my wife in. She’s sick. She ate some of the cafeteria stuff.” He said, “Me, too. That’s the reason I’m in here.” I went on in there and I was looking at his foot and he was looking at mine. (Laughter) Oh, that stuff liked to kill me. I didn’t eat nothing else from that cafeteria. I had free tickets and I sold them to somebody else ‘cause I didn’t eat. We could get free tickets to eat.
MR. ALBRECHT: You got sick on the cafeteria. You didn’t want to eat there any more so you started cooking in your own hut. Now did you bring pots and pans? How did you get a hold of that kind stuff?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, they made me pots and pans from the steel building, where the men were welding, they made me a long black pan, they made me a round one with a handle on it, and another one. I sent my friend something in my pan. Of course, it was black, you know, like the pan was, they threw it away. I was so mad with her. I didn’t send her nothing else. That’s why I only got two from the plant. Them men really could make it.
(Off camera noise)
MR. ALBRECHT: We want to get the pan. I want you to hold the pan and show us that. Then as soon as he comes in I’ve got a couple more questions and then we’ll let you relax. You’re doing a great job today. I appreciate you telling these stories. They’re wonderful.
MRS. STRICKLAND: I couldn’t tell it all. There’s just so much.
MR. ALBRECHT: Oh, you’ve told us so much more than the last time we were with you. This has just been tremendous.
MRS. STRICKLAND: There my pans.
MR. ALBRECHT: We’ll do that as soon as he gets the camera going.
MR. GREENE: It’s still going.
MR. ALBRECHT: Oh. What I want you to do is hold the pan up and say, “This is the pan that I used to make biscuits in.”
MRS. STRICKLAND: Like that?
MR. ALBRECHT: Yeah, pick it up and hold it like that. Start with it down in your lap. And then lift it up and say, “This is the pan that I used”, and hold it up. Ok.
MRS. STRICKLAND: This is the pan I used to make biscuits in the huts at J.A. Jones.
MR. ALBRECHT: That look good?
MR. GREENE: Yeah.
MR. ALBRECHT: Here, I’ll get that out of your way. That’s wonderful that you still got the same pan. That’s just amazing.
MRS. STRICKLAND: I know my pan. I cooked potatoes, sweet potatoes on it.
MR. ALBRECHT: Oh, that sounds good. I’ve got another couple of questions that Rick just gave me.
MR. GREENE: We’re at 48, so that’s 12 minutes left.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, we’ll have to finish up here pretty soon. First, how did you feel when they had dropped the atomic bomb on Japan? How did that make you feel?
MRS. STRICKLAND: It made me sick. It was hard for me to know that bomb killed so many people. (inaudible) Japan done to them.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, totally off that subject. You and your husband were up here working, your children were staying with your mother as I understand. Tell me about how often you got to see your children and how long did it take to get there? How long did you get to visit?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, sometime I leave on a Saturday and stay Sunday. Sometimes I call in with my boss and tell him I want an off day. I’ll be in Tuesday. Then we would leave out on Monday coming back. I went pretty often to see my kids; well, I did until I brought them up here.
MR. ALBRECHT: You said you went pretty often. Did you go once a month? Twice a month? Once every three, about how often was it?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I know I went every other month. I know practically.
MR. ALBRECHT: Did you miss your children?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, Lord. I went to cry when that bus got on the other side of Chattanooga. I said, “Lord, have mercy.” I felt like I was going to the back side of the world from my kids. I just thought it was the worst place when I first come up here though. Oh, ‘til I went to making that money.
MR. ALBRECHT: I think I know the answer to this question. What was the best thing about moving to Oak Ridge, working on the project?
MRS. STRICKLAND: It was a good thing, but it was hard when I first come, you know. It was a tougher place than I thought. After I got to drawing my checks I forgot about it.
MR. ALBRECHT: What would you say was the worst thing about coming up here?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, the worst thing what I said, I didn’t want to leave my kids that far from home. But, then we went and brought them up here. Kids weren’t allowed up here at that time.
MR. ALBRECHT: So the kids were allowed when? Was that right at the end of the war? Do you remember what year it was kids could come?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I sure can’t, but after they allowed children to come, I went home and got mine. But no kids allowed on the plant land.
MR. ALBRECHT: Anything else you feel you would like to say? I have run out of questions. I just wondered if there was anything I might have missed that you think ought to be said.
MRS. STRICKLAND: I’ve just been thinking I’ve done said all I could say, just something that wouldn’t be that interesting.
MR. ALBRECHT: So you think you’ve said everything that needs to be said. You’ve done a wonderful job today. I want to thank you for doing it all again. You think there is anything else?
MR. GREENE: No. I do need some room tone.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok great. We’re going to take you out of the hot seat.
[End of Interview]

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ORAL HISTORY OF KATTIE LUE STRICKLAND
Interviewed by Chris Albrecht
Filmed by Rick Greene
Significant Productions
November 3, 2005
Transcribed by Jordan Reed
MR. GREENE: We have speed.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. Ignore the man behind the camera. (Laughter) Ok. Third time, tell me your name and where you live please.
MRS. STRICKLAND: My name is Kattie Strickland. I live at 242 South Dillon, Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
MR. ALBRECHT: Thank you very much. Now, tell me what year did you come to Oak Ridge and how old were you at that time.
MRS. STRICKLAND: It was ‘40 some years.
MR. ALBRECHT: So, you came sometime in the ‘40’s. About how old were you when you came to Oak Ridge? Do you remember?
MRS. STRICKLAND: 36, I think.
MR. ALBRECHT: So, about 36. Ok. Let’s talk about, tell me where you lived before you came to Oak Ridge. Where did you live and what did you do there?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I lived in Auburn, Alabama. We first was farming and then we moved to Auburn, up into town. I worked at the main library eight years then. From there to here.
MR. ALBRECHT: What did you do at the library at Auburn?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, I dusted and kept all the books clean upstairs. Opened up the library at 8 o’clock.
MR. ALBRECHT: How did you and your husband first hear about the work that was up here at Oak Ridge?
MRS. STRICKLAND: One of his friends came up here and when he came back he was telling them about it. Then my husband took off and came up here.
MR. ALBRECHT: Now did he come up and start working before you came up? Did he come up alone?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yes.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. First of all, what was your husband’s name?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Willie Strickland.
MR. ALBRECHT: What, how long was he up here working before you came up and joined him?
MRS. STRICKLAND: A year.
MR. ALBRECHT: What made you decide to come up here?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, when he came back, he wanted me to come back with him, and I didn’t want to leave my kids and so my mother didn’t want me to come. Finally, she gave in and told me I could come back with him. And she kept the kids.
MR. ALBRECHT: Now, did you know that you would be able to find work when you got up here?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, yes. They was hiring.
MR. ALBRECHT: When you lived in Auburn, did they actually have recruiters, did they have people come in and try to sign people up to come work or did they just hear about it?
MRS. STRICKLAND: The people just heard about it. They just come on up here.
MR. ALBRECHT: When you came up here did you know that you and your husband wouldn’t be able to live together?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yes.
MR. ALBRECHT: How were you able to get together?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, I lived in one hut and he lived in another one. I would go up every night and stay until 10, 11 o’clock, at his hut, and then he’d have to bring me back to mine.
MR. ALBRECHT: How many people lived in the hut with your husband?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Four.
MR. ALBRECHT: And how many were in your hut?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Five.
MR. ALBRECHT: Now when he took you up to his hut, did the other men skedaddle, did the other men disappear?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, no. well, everyman had a curtain you know to draw.
MR. ALBRECHT: I see.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Then sometimes we would all sit out there and laugh and talk together.
MR. ALBRECHT: So you could stay there until, what did you say, 10 o’clock?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yes. Or they’d come put me out.
MR. ALBRECHT: You mentioned that you were really torn about coming up here because you didn’t want to leave your children. Tell me about how many children did you have at the time and how old were they?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I had four children before I come up here. Dorothye, Margaret, Willie Pearl, and Emma Jean. Virginia was born after I got up here.
MR. ALBRECHT: About how old were your kids? Who was the oldest child and who was the youngest child? About how old were they?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Dorothye is the oldest. Virginia, the baby.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. We talked a little bit about you living in one hut and your husband lived in another. I want you to just pretend I’m a blind man and can’t see anything. I want you to describe what that hut that you lived in was like.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, there was four of us that lived in the hut before we moved into the pen. At night, you couldn’t lock the door. We had to leave it open so the guards could come in whenever they were ready. That was it.
MR. ALBRECHT: How big was it?
MRS. STRICKLAND: It was a big one building. It was pretty good size with four beds in there.
MR. ALBRECHT: How was the hut heated in the winter? Was it warm in the winter? How was it heated?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, yeah. We had that heater. It would get red hot and it would keep it real, real warm in there.
MR. ALBRECHT: That was a coal stove, wasn’t it?
MRS. STRICKLAND: That’s right.
MR. ALBRECHT: Who kept it fired up? Who kept the coal in it, and kept the fire going?
MRS. STRICKLAND: At first only men. When they filled it up, it would stay pretty well and wouldn’t have to put any in. It was burning coal. It would get red hot and they had a kiln sitting on top of the stove to help keep the moisture down.
MR. ALBRECHT: What were those huts like in the summer? Tennessee gets pretty hot and humid. How was it like living in those huts in the summer?
MRS. STRICKLAND: It was pretty nice because we would let the windows down. The windows were up high and the breeze would come in through it. We weren’t in there more than for sleeping because we had to get up and go to work in the morning.
MR. ALBRECHT: That’s a good point. How was the housing, the huts, was it all just black people in the huts? Were white people in the huts too?
MRS. STRICKLAND: The black people was together and the whites were separate.
MR. ALBRECHT: They had whites that were in the huts that were separate?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yeah. We had one side and then the white were across on the other side.
MR. ALBRECHT: So the white people that lived in huts, were they construction workers? What kinds of jobs did they do?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, they were electricians, carpenters, and things like that is what they did.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. Now, a lot of the people that lived in those huts, there were men that were single, and there were a lot of women that were single. How did they keep the men and women apart at night?
MRS. STRICKLAND: (Chuckles) They couldn’t. The women’s would go out and go to their friend’s hut and the guards come look in my room, and he said, “You don’t got no company?” I said, I woke up and I said, “No.” He said, “You’ll have some after while.” After while I could hear those women coming down those walk ways cussing and come and get in their huts. They’d sit there laugh and talk about an hour and then they’d go right back out. (Laughter) All of them would but me.
MR. ALBRECHT: We were talking about the stove and when we visited with you before, you told me a little bit about making biscuits and how you would give some biscuits to the guards. Tell me that story again please.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, I made biscuits on the stove and we got a thing you put on the stove and I’d cook biscuits. An FBI man come by and eat supper with me and my husband. When it would get hot, I’d sit it up there and brown behind, and then when they brown behind, I turn the face to it and it browned just like that on the stove.
MR. GREENE: She’s going to get the pans.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, good. Good because I want you to hold that pan up and say, “This is the pan I used.” I think that’s just so remarkable that you…
MRS. STRICKLAND: I think my daughter brought them. I don’t know why they want to do this again.
MR. ALBRECHT: Well, you know if we can use all what we tape here today, if we can just use that instead of what we taped before, you just look so much prettier today, we’ll just use what we shot today. I love the way you’re telling the stories. You’re telling me more than what I’m asking and that’s great. That’s prefect. When she brings in the pans, we’ll talk about that. But I also want you to tell me the story again. You told me about you and your husband making extra money. You sold beer, you sold cigarettes. I want you to tell me a little bit about both of those.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, this man he checked out and went home. He was my husband’s friend and he had a big old thing, it’s like a freezer there, you know, one of them flats. And he had a seal inside and it would hold about two gallons, two packs, four packs of beer, watermelon, two cases of cokes, and I’d set up and sell beer until my hand got so cold. I use to sell cigarettes a dollar a cigarette. They come with their girlfriends and sit there and drink beer and he asked me if I had a cigarette. I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Well, what it is?” I said, “A dollar.” He said, “I’ll get two ‘cause my girlfriend want’s one.” Oh, I made so much money. Of course, now they wouldn’t buy the beer right at the store on Saturday. My husband would just buy it up because they knew they would be coming in on the weekend and buy it. They know they could buy it much cheaper, but they like to come buy it. I was selling a dollar for the little bottles if you could open it. I sold cigarettes because at that time cigarettes had a limit and my husband’s friends who didn’t smoke would buy them for him and I had a sale.
MR. ALBRECHT: Great. Very good. Tell me a little bit about how much money you made. I know at one point you said something about you had money spread out all over the cotton. You hadn’t seen so much money. Start again while I’m not talking, ok.
MRS. STRICKLAND: On Sunday nights we’d count it up and Monday morning we’d go to the Happy Valley store and send it home. I was scared to put that bag up there until I got use to sending it home. So she could buy what she wanted for the kids.
MR. ALBRECHT: How much extra money, how much do you suppose it was that you made extra selling cigarettes and beer?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, right around $75, $80, I’m going to say. I mean that’s every cent. We use to go to Chattanooga and waiting in line for the whiskey to come in, and I’d go to Chattanooga and set my suitcase. The man put 48 cases, 48 hays in that suitcase. And when we get to that gate the guards are going to go and check you know. So we would, the man would sit it up to the front. He said, “My God. You’re loaded, ain’t you?” He set it up there because if the guard were to come in to check, it wouldn’t be mine. I wouldn’t know whose it was. And when I get through the gate, I went a fifth a man betted me I would get on the bus at the same time. I told him I would. When we got to Chattanooga and got on the line, he said, “Come on.” He said, “I’m gonna buy you a fifth ‘cause you win. It’s fair.” And I had on my big fur coat white black and I put it under my coat. That’s before I got to the gate and we all on the back seat made like we was sleeping. The guard came in and he threw the light around and went on back out the door. Oh Lord. We laughed and the bus pulled on off, because he was suppose to check everything, but he just came in with a flashlight and look at the suitcase and go on out. That’s how we made extra money. Because we wasn’t making, my check wasn’t but $27 a week at that time. $1.50 a week for rent. And we got linen changed once a week, no ever morning, ‘cause my husband left his billfold with $207 up under his pillow and the door unlocked and when he got to work he thought about it. When he got there the lady had just got there to clean up so he just went in there and got the billfold out from under there. You couldn’t leave anything out. So many room together they’d check out if their roommate would go to work and get everything they got and get gone. So I went to Chattanooga and bought a big ole trunk and my nicest little things, what I didn’t bring I kept it locked and I bought a chain and chained it to the bed. I said I’ll catch them at the bus stop with my bed and my trunk. ‘Cause they were tough. There were so many people there. The yard full, the hut full, the cafeteria full. I ain’t never seen so many people, just like the war was there.
MR. ALBRECHT: Tell me a bit about living with all the mud.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Lord, there was so much mud and rats and plank walks. I tell them the people that come later got nice place because we came in mud. Plank walks would be covered in mud where we walk coming to and fro. I get to running to catch the train and I see some coming over my head, mud coming over my head. I was running to get to the train to get to the plant. It is so much different now.
MR. ALBRECHT: It surely is. Now, you mentioned getting to the plants. I want to talk a little bit about what life was like at work. What was your job? What did you do?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well I had, I had a restricted badge and worked in the restricted department and then I worked out on the floor. We would run, that’s what me and my friend done. We swept sawdust (inaudible) in a building wider than this building and they had long mops, long from here to over there and they just run every once in a while and we just threw the wet sawdust, go down and come right back the same way. When we got through with them floors, they would shine like glass before they turned the motor on. I told them if I had known you were going to turn this motor on this morning. I sure would have laid off today. I was there when they started the motor running. I reckon that was when I had to talk so loud ‘cause it made me deaf.
MR. ALBRECHT: You talked about turning on the motor. What plant, where was that? What plant was that?
MRS. STRICKLAND: At K-27, that’s where I worked at.
MR. ALBRECHT: K-27?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yes. Only building that was named a different building name.
MR. ALBRECHT: Do you know what the motor was that they turned on? What it was doing?
MRS. STRICKLAND: That’s why we were sweeping. The electrician men was putting in electric, sawing and running that thing. Making sparks and that’s what we were sweeping up. I was there when they were building the building, you see. Then after we swept and swept and cleaned them big ole tanks. My friend, she was on one side, and we had to go to the other side of the tank to talk to one another. We rubbed those tanks. Wasn’t no dust on them things. It was beautiful in there, but Lord, it was a mess when we started.
MR. ALBRECHT: What was a typical day at work like? I mean did you just sweep all day long for 8 hours. How long was a work day?
MRS. STRICKLAND: We worked from 8 to 4. We get on the back steps and sit down. Our foreman told us, “Y’all sit down while I go to the office.” His son went to college with our, with Mr. Franks, he was the president over us. He go up there and stay an hour or so and we’d be back down there having fun sitting on the steps. The men couldn’t come to the ladies restroom. I’d get in the restroom, me and (inaudible), and he’d come back, “Where is Kattie Strickland?” He liked to mess with me. They’d say, “I think she’s in the restroom.” He’d walk on around there and come to the back. Bump, bump, “God damn it, come out of there, Kattie Strickland! I know you’re in there!” (Laughter) Oh, we had fun. We enjoyed it after we went to sweeping and cleaning up in there, but before then, it was just mud. The concrete that we walked on and came in was just so muddy. Really cleaned it up though. And Carbide came in right behind them. And that’s, I terminated out from J.A. Jones and hired in with Carbide.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, you talked about your pay. You said you made $27 a week I think you said. Did you make the same amount of money working with J.A. Jones as you did with Carbide?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, a little more, when Carbide took over. I would work every Saturday, and that was double time, making more. There wasn’t much to do at the huts, so I worked every Saturday, overtime, and I’d give two of my checks for the atomic bomb, so they say. I just got the stubs. I just got the stubs now.
MR. ALBRECHT: So you gave a day of work. You say a check. Was that for the whole week, or was that for just one day?
MRS. STRICKLAND: One day.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, we talked about how much you got paid, now who did the pay working up here in the Manhattan Project, how did that compare to working in the library back at Auburn.
MRS. STRICKLAND: My brother worked there before he went into the service and I already worked in the same organization. So they put me in the library and I was the only lady making $12 a month. I said, “Why can’t I have what my brother had? I keep the building much cleaner.” So they raised me to $13 a month and that’s what I was making when I came here working at the library.
MR. ALBRECHT: So you made a lot more money here.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Lord, yeah, I never seen so much money. I thought it was way more. That wasn’t for a month. We paid $6 a month rent down there, $6.50 at Auburn. Came up here and we paid $1.50 a week.
MR. ALBRECHT: When I read about the Manhattan Project and I see photographs there is always a lot of talk about how it was a secret and how people weren’t allowed to talk about their jobs to other people. Did that apply to you and what you were doing? Did they try to clamp down on you talking?
MRS. STRICKLAND: No. Just the sign was there when you go through the gate going to work. Said, “See nothing. Hear nothing. Say nothing.” I didn’t give it no thought. We talked like we wanted to talk when we got in the building together. (Laughter)
MR. ALBRECHT: So you didn’t get in trouble talking about…
MRS. STRICKLAND: Nobody did. I reckon they meant not to go back outside to talk to other people that were outside about what was going on.
MR. ALBRECHT: What were you told, or what did you know at the time about the Manhattan Project? I mean when you were here and the project was going on and the war, did you know they were trying to build an atomic bomb?
MRS. STRICKLAND: When I heard them talking about it, saying they’re going to build an atomic bomb and asking all the workers to give a day’s work, I just gave them two day’s work.
MR. ALBRECHT: So it wasn’t a big secret to you. You knew they were building a bomb.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yeah that wasn’t. I was there when they cleared, my friend, me and her worked together all the time and they called up to the gate that her husband was out of service you know. She went to the gate and they let him in.
MR. ALBRECHT: What, we talked about the kind of work you were doing, what kind of work were the other Blacks that were up here at the time, what kind of work were they doing?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well some of them worked at the cafeterias and thousands and thousands were doing the same kind of work we were doing. Sometimes he’d give me the restrooms and none of the other’s would take it. I just sit at the restroom door and let one in at a time. the others got jealous, “I don’t know how come Kattie Strickland stays there.” He said, “None of you all would take it.” I got tired of sitting there ‘cause I liked being out with the crowd where I could laugh and talk. I said, “If you want it you can take it.” One girl said, “Well, I want it.” So I let her have it and I went out on the floor. I worked at night, 12 to 8. No, from 8 to 4. Next week 4 to 12. Then I go on to 12 to 7 the next morning. That was the swing shift. Me and my friend, there were 100 bathrooms in the building and the office was sitting in the middle. Fifty on this side and fifty on the other side of the building. That’s what we did at night, me and my friend. In the day time, they switched me to cleaning the water fountain. It was the same many water fountains as there was bathrooms and one had a dust cleaner and I had a rag. She’d sprinkle it, and I’d wash it out. Go to the other one. If anybody was drinking out it, just skip it and go on down. We had a good time. All I wanted was to hit my clock. Run, run, run, run. I’d be the first to clock in and the first to clock out. There was one old man at the clocking thing. That man could give you them cards faster than you could clock it with that one hand. When you come in, you check them, and put them over there. When you’re coming out, he checked them and put them back over there. When I came out the building, I’d run, run, run. I’d be the first one out in the morning time, I’d run, run, run. I’d be the first to clock in. If you miss so many minutes, I think you had about 8 minutes or you’d be late. I’d look back and look at that line and be twice long as this building. Oh Lord, you could be late, a lot. That’s amazing, I’m telling you. I never worked with so many people.
MR. ALBRECHT: Let me ask you a question, I’m curious. You said you sat there at the restroom and only let one person in at a time. Why did they only let one person in the restroom at a time?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Two would get in there and stay in there you know. One going in and then out and the one standing outside could go in. Sometimes two or three would use the water closet, restroom, and stay in there.
MR. ALBRECHT: I get it. They talked.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Yeah.
MR. ALBRECHT: Did they have separate restrooms and drinking fountains for Blacks and for whites?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Not at the plant, not at the plant. But outside the plant. They didn’t want you to wash at the Laundromat. You couldn’t eat at the bar in the 10 cent store. You could buy your sandwich and you had to go, couldn’t eat at the bar. It was just like Alabama when I first came up here. You just accept it. You don’t drink out the same fountain. Finally, they changed it.
MR. ALBRECHT: When was the change?
MRS. STRICKLAND: When they changed everything, you could eat anywhere you wanted, drink out the same fountain, and wash your clothes at the Laundromat like they did. We picketed a line. I picketed a line. I got over there, I said, “Lord, I hope the police is here.” First thing I see was all those men with those white things on. I said, “I ain’t going up there.” So the Oak Ridge Police got mean. There were a lot of them. What they call them things, those things on their face? The white men.
MR. ALBRECHT: You talking about the Klan?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I guess so. Ku Klux Klan.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ku Klux Klan.
MRS. STRICKLAND: And so they didn’t do nothing but stand up there and look at us. The police lined up out there too. ‘Cause the people didn’t want us to wash up there at the Laundromat up there in Grove Center.
MR. ALBRECHT: Let me ask you a question. During the war, during the Manhattan Project, not after the war was over, but during the war, President Roosevelt signed an executive order that said there would be no discrimination in the war time industries. Yet here at Oak Ridge they ignored that. They said were going to go with the local customs. Were y’all aware of that at the time? If so, how did you feel about that?
MRS. STRICKLAND: We had been done so badly, I didn’t pay it no attention. It wasn’t like it was in Alabama because we couldn’t vote. I ain’t miss voting every time, ‘cause see we were just allowed to vote when we got to Oak Ridge. We couldn’t vote before we came up here.
MR. ALBRECHT: You couldn’t vote in Alabama, but you could in Oak Ridge?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Couldn’t vote in Oak Ridge.
MR. ALBRECHT: Oh.
MRS. STRICKLAND: But by the government they had to let us go and vote.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. How many black people do you suppose were working here during the war? Do you have any idea?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, I reckon all the people that left them towns, they were here. There were more people here than I had ever seen. It was like we were at the World’s Fair. Finally, so many years, like Will Minter was here, they went to checking out, going back home.
MR. ALBRECHT: To your knowledge, did most of the black people that came here to work during the war, when the war was over did most of them go back home, or did most of them stay?
MRS. STRICKLAND: A lot of them went back. I’m not sure about how many. We were some of the early ones up here and we’re still here. When my husband moved up here, he brought my nephew. My nephew brought his friend. Then when he got here, he brought his friend. A lot of them came up here on account of me and my husband from Alabama.
MR. ALBRECHT: The ones that moved back home, why do you suppose they left here and went back home?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I sure wouldn’t know. A lot of them did move back. They went to different places, Mississippi, Memphis. I worked with a lot of them that said they were going back home. It’s thinned down quite a bit, especially the colored because I practically know all the ones that stayed.
MR. ALBRECHT: This may be a hard question, maybe it won’t be a hard question, I don’t know. If you had it to do all over again, especially considering what your life was like when you lived in Alabama compared to what it was like after you came here. If you could go back and do things over again, would you do it just like you did, would you come up here?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I don’t know. I don’t think so. I wouldn’t be able to do that now. I was young then, I didn’t mind. But no.
MR. ALBRECHT: I mean when you were young, if you could go back in time and just do it all over again when you were a young woman…
MRS. STRICKLAND: I probably would if I couldn’t do no better. After I came up here and stayed a month or so, I like it. I didn’t like the place, but I like what I was making. It was the money.
MR. ALBRECHT: Looking back on what you did, how do you feel about the work you did? Do you think it helped the war effort?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I guess it did. (inaudible) Talking about the atomic bomb? I guess it did.
MR. ALBRECHT: I think it did. What else comes to mind when you think about the war years up here in Oak Ridge? Are there any other stories, or things that come to mind that you think might be important to tell?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, after then they segregated everybody, you know, here in Oak Ridge. We were the first and so many people, my boss man when I was working at MSI, he moved to Knoxville. He said that he didn’t want his children to school with Blacks. He moved to Knoxville and he run right into it. They went to segregate them. Some of the teachers quit teaching and some of the husbands had stores. They quit teaching saying they weren’t going to teach no Blacks. That didn’t stop them; the children went right on to school.
MR. ALBRECHT: What do you think would have happened during World War II if the Manhattan Project hadn’t taken place.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, I don’t know. I gave them time for the atomic bomb. (inaudible) at the winding up. I think all the different countries got the atomic bomb.
MR. ALBRECHT: Let me back up, that was a hard question. Nobody knows what the difference might have been.
MR. GREENE: Chris, 41 minutes.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, thank you. When you were working on the project, tell me a little bit about some of the segregation that you saw. Talk to me about the cafeterias, the lunch stands, the restrooms, anything like that where you saw segregation. Tell me about it.
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, of course I worked at J.A. Jones cafeteria. I bagged sugar half of the night, you know. We weren’t allowed to put but one spoon to the packet. I worked cleaning the tables as soon as everyone was through eating. I had my buggy, clean that plate, and put it in the buggy and put out a new one ‘cause the line was busy coming in. I just filled my pockets full of sugar. Men would pay me. He’d have his $1 or $2 for extra sugar, cause there wasn’t enough. I made a lot of money like that. We had our lunches fixed, they’d be on a long table and go through the line to get one. But I’d be the one cleaning up and putting plates down. I made a lot of money getting them men extra sugar. One night, the boss man was coming out and I was sitting in my room bagging, he would stand there and look. He was like, “Strickland, you’re putting two spoons in there.” I was falling a sleeping. I didn’t know what I was doing. They really didn’t want you to put but one teaspoon to one of them little bags. At night when I worked, me and this white guy had to clean, had the clean-up. I had to clean off everything and he’d fold the chairs up. There were about 80 white girls and boys and they came and ate on our long tables like that thing back there. Buddy, they messed that table up. All those cups and glasses and things, but they had dollars and quarters on every piece. Some had quarters, some had fifty cents, and some had a dollar and a half. My friend, me and him were working. He was folding the tables like them. And he said, “You want any help? You want me to help?” I said, “No.” (Laughter) I said, “I don’t need no help.” Of course, he had all those tables to fold. I was way ahead of him. He seen that money over there and he wanted to help. I made about $15 off that table. They really tip you when there’s a party like that. But I couldn’t eat the food. That’s why I had to cook at the hut, in my hut. We had a good time. I ate that food one night and it about killed me. I was at my husband’s hut. He said, “You want to go back to your hut?” I said, “That’s too far.” The men’s restroom was right there. He stood there and said, “I’m going to have to bring my wife in. She’s sick. She ate some of the cafeteria stuff.” He said, “Me, too. That’s the reason I’m in here.” I went on in there and I was looking at his foot and he was looking at mine. (Laughter) Oh, that stuff liked to kill me. I didn’t eat nothing else from that cafeteria. I had free tickets and I sold them to somebody else ‘cause I didn’t eat. We could get free tickets to eat.
MR. ALBRECHT: You got sick on the cafeteria. You didn’t want to eat there any more so you started cooking in your own hut. Now did you bring pots and pans? How did you get a hold of that kind stuff?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, they made me pots and pans from the steel building, where the men were welding, they made me a long black pan, they made me a round one with a handle on it, and another one. I sent my friend something in my pan. Of course, it was black, you know, like the pan was, they threw it away. I was so mad with her. I didn’t send her nothing else. That’s why I only got two from the plant. Them men really could make it.
(Off camera noise)
MR. ALBRECHT: We want to get the pan. I want you to hold the pan and show us that. Then as soon as he comes in I’ve got a couple more questions and then we’ll let you relax. You’re doing a great job today. I appreciate you telling these stories. They’re wonderful.
MRS. STRICKLAND: I couldn’t tell it all. There’s just so much.
MR. ALBRECHT: Oh, you’ve told us so much more than the last time we were with you. This has just been tremendous.
MRS. STRICKLAND: There my pans.
MR. ALBRECHT: We’ll do that as soon as he gets the camera going.
MR. GREENE: It’s still going.
MR. ALBRECHT: Oh. What I want you to do is hold the pan up and say, “This is the pan that I used to make biscuits in.”
MRS. STRICKLAND: Like that?
MR. ALBRECHT: Yeah, pick it up and hold it like that. Start with it down in your lap. And then lift it up and say, “This is the pan that I used”, and hold it up. Ok.
MRS. STRICKLAND: This is the pan I used to make biscuits in the huts at J.A. Jones.
MR. ALBRECHT: That look good?
MR. GREENE: Yeah.
MR. ALBRECHT: Here, I’ll get that out of your way. That’s wonderful that you still got the same pan. That’s just amazing.
MRS. STRICKLAND: I know my pan. I cooked potatoes, sweet potatoes on it.
MR. ALBRECHT: Oh, that sounds good. I’ve got another couple of questions that Rick just gave me.
MR. GREENE: We’re at 48, so that’s 12 minutes left.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, we’ll have to finish up here pretty soon. First, how did you feel when they had dropped the atomic bomb on Japan? How did that make you feel?
MRS. STRICKLAND: It made me sick. It was hard for me to know that bomb killed so many people. (inaudible) Japan done to them.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok, totally off that subject. You and your husband were up here working, your children were staying with your mother as I understand. Tell me about how often you got to see your children and how long did it take to get there? How long did you get to visit?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, sometime I leave on a Saturday and stay Sunday. Sometimes I call in with my boss and tell him I want an off day. I’ll be in Tuesday. Then we would leave out on Monday coming back. I went pretty often to see my kids; well, I did until I brought them up here.
MR. ALBRECHT: You said you went pretty often. Did you go once a month? Twice a month? Once every three, about how often was it?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I know I went every other month. I know practically.
MR. ALBRECHT: Did you miss your children?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Oh, Lord. I went to cry when that bus got on the other side of Chattanooga. I said, “Lord, have mercy.” I felt like I was going to the back side of the world from my kids. I just thought it was the worst place when I first come up here though. Oh, ‘til I went to making that money.
MR. ALBRECHT: I think I know the answer to this question. What was the best thing about moving to Oak Ridge, working on the project?
MRS. STRICKLAND: It was a good thing, but it was hard when I first come, you know. It was a tougher place than I thought. After I got to drawing my checks I forgot about it.
MR. ALBRECHT: What would you say was the worst thing about coming up here?
MRS. STRICKLAND: Well, the worst thing what I said, I didn’t want to leave my kids that far from home. But, then we went and brought them up here. Kids weren’t allowed up here at that time.
MR. ALBRECHT: So the kids were allowed when? Was that right at the end of the war? Do you remember what year it was kids could come?
MRS. STRICKLAND: I sure can’t, but after they allowed children to come, I went home and got mine. But no kids allowed on the plant land.
MR. ALBRECHT: Anything else you feel you would like to say? I have run out of questions. I just wondered if there was anything I might have missed that you think ought to be said.
MRS. STRICKLAND: I’ve just been thinking I’ve done said all I could say, just something that wouldn’t be that interesting.
MR. ALBRECHT: So you think you’ve said everything that needs to be said. You’ve done a wonderful job today. I want to thank you for doing it all again. You think there is anything else?
MR. GREENE: No. I do need some room tone.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok great. We’re going to take you out of the hot seat.
[End of Interview]