Wednesday, February 14, 2007

When the Potbangers Were Riding High

A Liestoppers post of a few months back brilliantly explicated how the potbangers’ activity between March 24 and March 27 helped transform what might have been a local story into a national cause. Posts today and tomorrow will look at their behavior after March 27.

The potbangers got their name from a March 26 protest outside the house rented by the lacrosse captains. Announcements of the protest said, “Dress warmly, bring your whole family and bring pots and pans and things to bang them with! We are having a 'Cacerolazo,' or a pots & pans protest, because it is a tool women all over the world use to call out sexual assaulters.” The Liestoppers post features photos of the protesters equipped with their “pots & pans.”

The potbangers were a loose coalition of three factions: a handful of professional protesters; some far-left Duke graduate students and professors (like Kim Curtis); and Trinity Park residents who disliked Duke undergraduates. They were overwhelmingly white and middle-class; indeed, one admitted that she was “just a white, middle-class, yuppy [sic], probably still dealing with all the crap I internalized growing up in the South.”

The movement proceeded through three distinct phases.

1) March 24 through March 30: Fully confident that a rape occurred, the potbangers demanded punishing the lacrosse team and a public posture that focused on the evils of rape.

2) March 31 through April 10: Recognizing that a rape might well not have occurred, the potbangers refused to abandon their denunciation of the lacrosse players, and instead began to stress the team’s alleged racism.

3) April 11 onward: In the aftermath of the DNA evidence, the potbangers shifted wholly to claims that they were never seeking punishment for the lacrosse players, but were merely addressing the broader societal issues of racism and sexism. This approach was coupled with defiant refusals to apologize for their rush to judgment and an emphasis on the drinking habits of the lacrosse players.

The one constant in this progression: having come out strongly against the players early on, the potbangers were determined to find something to justify their assault on the lacrosse players’ character.

Phase One

It’s hard to remember now, but the initial thrust of the protests did not focus on denouncing 47 people because one of them used a racial slur as part of a racially charged argument with Kim Roberts. The potbangers’ initial rally approached the issue from an ultra-feminist perspective, expressing the certainty of rape through signs with such slogans as “time to confess” and “castrate.”

It’s worth keeping these slogans in mind, of course, when recalling that 11 days later, the Group of 88 said, “To the protestors making collective noise, thank you for not waiting and for making yourselves heard.”

The potbangers reveled in the outcome of their Saturday night vigil (March 25) and Sunday morning protest (March 26). On the 26th, a law student at NCCU called for the group to do more “in trying to understand how these kinds of brutal sexual assaults and gang rapes keep happening in the collegiate athletic context.” A male potbanger urged greater dialogue on the issue of rape, but with a politically correct caution: “IF YOU ARE A MAN: Please be mindful of the energy you bring and space you take up in the conversation. Keep in mind that assertion of male domination and violence, even in a well intended response, is part and parcel of this whole thing.”

Potbangers initially focused almost exclusively on the rape allegation. They organized campus rallies on March 27 and March 28 “geared toward educating the larger Duke community about the sexual assault that occurred two weeks ago in a house just off East Campus that is rented by Duke students.” The alert people at Liestoppers uncovered a photo of potbanger Kim Curtis, a Duke “visiting” professor of political science, at one of these events.

The main issue: rape, not racism. The targets: lacrosse players, not broader societal concerns.

The writing on this poster from the March 27 rally: “If lacrosse players are 'innocent until proven guilty', why are survivors of sexual assault 'guilty until proven innocent'?”

The slogan on these T-shirts, from the same date: “Men's Lacrosse? Not fine by me.”

The activists’ goals, likewise, were concrete and targeted at the lacrosse players, not addressing broader societal concerns: they wanted the lacrosse season canceled and Coach Mike Pressler fired.

Duke student Brianne Ehrlich—shown here with Group of 88 member Margaret Greer—proposed “a sit-in at Duke’s Lacrosse office (or right outside it). I will sit there all day, I don’t care. Maybe that would put pressure on the Coach to demand information from the team, make them quit being silent.” Potbanger organizer Rann Bar-on, a Duke graduate student who heretofore had concentrated on radical anti-Israel crusades, reported on the March 27 rally: “The demands I heard at the speakout yesterday were mostly calling for the forfeiture of the entire season and firing of the coach.”

But while the potbangers were ideologues, they weren’t fools. Two developments in late March shook their confidence that a rape occurred. Ironically, most of the media ignored both of these events; in this respect, the potbangers were actually more perceptive than most journalists covering the case.

The first event came on March 28, when a defense press conference confidently predicted that no DNA matches would be found. The second came two days later, when the Herald-Sun’s Brianne Dopart revealed, contrary to initial claims of a “wall of silence,” that “when police searched the house March 16, the three . . . lacrosse captains volunteered to go to Durham Police Substation 2 for interviews . . . [and] voluntarily agreed to provide ‘suspect test kits.’” It would not be long before the transparently pro-Nifong John Stevenson replaced Dopart as the lead H-S reporter on the case.

Some potbangers tried to rationalize the DNA news. For instance, on March 29, Kim Curtis wrote,

The self assurance in the statement issued yesterday by the team that they will be exonerated by the results of the DNA testing makes me wonder if we’ve gotten the full story about who was at the house that night. Were there others present who in fact carried out the rape and who are being protected by everyone else who was there? How do we know who was there?

With that statement, a Duke professor had suggested, in writing and without any evidence at all, that two students in her own class were accomplices to rape. Curtis did not respond to multiple e-mails requesting comment.

That same day, Christina Headrick, a former N&Oreporter who left the paper in 2005 to open a “scrapbook store,” speculated that “the rapists could have used condoms. Maybe the DNA probe was just a way to put pressure on the team and give them a taste of justice system.” Of course, the accuser said her alleged attackers didn’t use condoms. Headrick did not respond to e-mail requests asking if she had reconsidered her position.

Another potbanger, apparently misunderstanding the meaning of the defense attorneys’ announcement, suggested on March 29 that the real story was “consensual gang sex, rather than gang rape.” He reasoned, “The distinction between ‘innocence’ and ‘getting away with something’ needs to be made.”

Despite the defense attorneys' prediction about DNA, the potbangers spent March 29 devoting themselves to the major event of the day: blanketing the Duke campus with “wanted” posters. Indicating that “some community folks made posters that have a picture of the lacrosse team and asked for them to please come forward with an annonymous [sic] report to crime stoppers,” the protesters arrived at 4.10pm on Duke’s West Campus. By that evening, the posters were everywhere on campus.

It’s worth keeping this activity in mind, of course, when recalling that one week later, the Group of 88 said, “To the protestors making collective noise, thank you for not waiting and for making yourselves heard.”

There was, alas, no time to celebrate the postering campaign, since the Dopart story appeared the following morning. One potbanger, a Duke student, was stunned to discover that “apparently the residents of 610 DID cooperate with police.” The student continued,

I am starting to get a sinking suspicion that this whole “shame the team into talking” tactic is really off base—am I the only one who feels almost guilty for the action over the past few days in light of this? I participated largely on the grounds that the “culture/wall of silence” was horrific...now I am feeling almost remorseful.

Moreover, the student wondered in a remarkable burst of naïveté, “If the team captains volunteered, when first approached by the police, to give DNA and statements, why wasn’t this first conveyed in the media?”

Fellow activists would provide reassurance, and the movement would continue.

179 comments:

Anonymous
said...

Another brilliant commentary by Professor Johnson. Meanwhile, Attorney General Cooper drags out the fraudulent case against the three lacrosse players. Write and/or call the U.S. Department of Justice. Urge a full investigation of North Carolina corruption and of Nifong's violation of the trio's civil rights.

Attorney General Cooper is just making a thorough assessment of all the available information. There's no reason to believe that his motives are anything other than pure and that his effort is anything other than extreme. It won't be time for a DOJ investigation until after all the current cases are taken care of.

Just wanted to express how disgusting Kim Curtis seems to me. Oh, and spell my name right this time.

Like vermin everywhere, these particular faculty and student vermin have run from the light and are hiding in familiar sewers. I wonder if it's possible they could have recessive cockroach genes, or maybe rat genes. Their behavior is just too uncannily similar.

The pot-bangers accomplished one big thing very efficiently. They demonstrated to a whole generation quite convincingly that women lie about rape and anything else that might serve feminists goals. Feminists and other types of sociopaths have a congenital problem with the idea that their intended victims can ever figure out (or simply notice) what they are up to. This seems to be a side effect of their own ability to un-notice uncomfortable facts. So, when the healthy ones do indeed figure it out and proceed with DOING WHAT MUST BE DONE they squeal to heaven (er, no, hell) that "This is not fair!! They are supposed to be stupid!! because if they (we) are not stupid these scam artists are likely to be turned into potting soil.

I guess working late at night has the benefit of catching KC's post. Of course I have to catch the sequel tomorrow.

We're expecting a massive storm in New England that starts in a few hours and I'm pretty sure that colleges will be shut down tomorrow. I'm not sure what the forecast is for NY where KC is but he might have a snow day off too.

The issue with Cooper should be brought to the attention of the media. Would be nice if 60 minutes did a part 3 on why this case is dragging on so long. It's an obvious stall.

Kim Curtis: "Were there others present who in fact carried out the rape and who are being protected by everyone else who was there? How do we know who was there?"

Although I'm closer to Kim Curtis' age than I am to the age of today's Duke students, I'm from a background not too unlike that of the guys at the LAX party. And, almost immediately after I got a rough outline of the case, it was from drawing on my understanding of the group dynamic and group constituents in that situation that I soon realized no crime could have occurred in so small and crowded a space.

In direct contradiction to what Kim Curtis appears to hold true about middle class/upper middle class males, I knew in my bones that 40 college kids were not going to sit around and allow a crime to be committed while they were available and able to stop it.

Sure, one, maybe two, bad apples might do harm and evil, acting in stealth and away from prying eyes. But 40 kids? 40 bad apples? 40 bad apples with enough brains and drive to make it into a good school? All 40 of them never hearing their mom's or dad's voice in their head saying, "Do the right thing?"

I knew you could never find 40 kids at a school like Duke -- or any institution of higher learning, really -- to cover up a crime.

And once that light went off, I knew a terrible injustice was being done to the Duke 3. Hence my vists to this blog, and my modest efforts to support the Duke 3 and set things right.

I suspect Professor Johnson wonders like I do who is getting her this "visiting" position. She is a Prof in that she teaches classes at Duke. She seems a rather permanent "visitor," hence the scare quotes, I suspect.

I remeber thinking the exact same thing! The odds of a "blue wall of silence" holding up to cover such a terrible crime just seemed highly unlikely. If you have 40+ co-conspirators that each have good families and bright futures to lose, someone is eventually going to come forward.

When I mentioned it to friends they insisted I was totally naïve to how the frat mindset worked (friends, of course, who had never been involved in the greek system or college athletics).

Excellent to be reminded of the early actions of the protesters and to see the shift as time went on. Thank you Professor Johnson for keeping the history alive at a time when the media and the potbangers would prefer its death.

The potbangers were a loose coalition of three factions: a handful of professional protesters; some far-left Duke graduate students and professors (like Kim Curtis); and Trinity Park residents who disliked Duke undergraduates.

I am very curious who the professional protesters are. Can you say a bit about this? Were they students? local professional allies of the idealogues? Faculty?

The potbangers gave the LAX players public faces. Now they in turn can be pointed out for the world to see. Thanks for including the photos. I'd love to see an entire gallery of the rogues. Do you plan to use photos in your book?

I'm glad to see the 88-ish will not have the last word! Considering what they and their supporters say, I can't imagine anything they could say last that would matter, but I so hope they'll never even think they got in that last word here.

VivienThat "thorough assessment" you describe would only take a week or two in most states.

I suspect Professor Johnson wonders like I do who is getting her this "visiting" position. She is a Prof in that she teaches classes at Duke. She seems a rather permanent "visitor," hence the scare quotes, I suspect.

I suspect KC Johnson does not wonder at all.

Curtis is part of the nepotic 2 for 1 employment package certain tenured professors get. Teach and your untenured spouse gets to get an income and a job teaching too...with inside track on tenure themselves...otherwise they keep their status as "visiting professor".

*********************As Johnson and Stuart Taylor work their book, I hope that they can cultivate some people within the cop, ADA, Ubungu, Trinity Park Association and Durham black community ranks to get a fuller picture of how these parties worked with Nifong and the Gang of 88 in the early weeks.

**********************I would love to learn more about Manju the Activist, the self-loathing Israeli Jew, and Sam Hummels involvement and if any have had remorse (ha!) for their lynch mob actions.

All the 88 have to do is stay low out of the direct fighting and eventually, inevitably, some poor white athlete is going to get into trouble and then they'll pounce and say, "See, see! We told you this University had a problem, but we were mocked!" And all of their fury about being made to look like fools in the lacrosse case is going to come down like hellfire.

"Potbanger organizer Rann Bar-on, a Duke graduate student who heretofore had concentrated on radical anti-Israel crusades, reported on the March 27 rally: “The demands I heard at the speakout yesterday were mostly calling for the forfeiture of the entire season and firing of the coach.”

With the new rape accusation, many are throwing the words uttered at the team and accused back in the faces of the Lax detractors. I want everyones civil rights respected. "Where is Cash and what is he hearing from the street?" What does the South's greatest lawyer have to say? Where are the potbangers?

Another example of the fine original thought coming from AAAs program...

Ironically, this is lifted from the title of white, conservative radio hostess, Laura Ingraham's book, "Shut up and Sing",Regenery Publishing, Oct. 25, 2003 and is a request to the Dixie Chicks regarding their foriegn policy expertise.

Of course, the movie, titled "Shut up and Sing", directed by Barbara Kopple and Cecilia Peck came out in 2006.

For $46,000.00 per year, you too can be subjected to this original thinking.

"I knew in my bones that 40 college kids were not going to sit around and allow a crime to be committed while they were available and able to stop it."

It is obscene that the Gang of 88 and others within Duke have so much hatred and disdain for their own students that they cannot come "listen" and come to the same conclusion and give theys guys the benefit of the doubt. When one consider that they remain entrenched with their hatred, then it becomes clear that a very hostile environment has been established - even provoked - and that these people need to go.

1. Fumigate all Angry Studies' classrooms and buildings2. Remove John Hope Franklin's name from AAAS building, renaming it for the mathematical and astronomical genius Karl Friedrich Gauss3. Have Duke security remove all members of the G88 coffee klatch4. Reduce Angry Studies' budget by 96%5. Enhance research in science, mathematics, Japan, and China6. Create innovative lecture series featuring geniuses like Guy Maddin and Stephen Hawking7. Immediately end all student and faculty affirmative action, including athletic preferential admits as well as legacies8. Dismiss Brodhead and his enabling trustees9. Invite US News and World Report so that they can report on the successful fumigation

The potbangers and the 88 are demonstrable liars, of course, but they are not deterred by having their own statements and actions produced as evidence of their lies. Since KC Johnson persists in reminding them of their dishonesty, he is a "right-winger". This is Amanda Marcotte's name for any who object to her venomous screeds: right-wingers. Right-wingers are the cause of everything bad. KC Johnson points out that he is actually politically liberal, but this is a misunderstanding of their use of the term. A right-winger is simply one who disagrees with them, who calls them out on their lies. A lifelong Marxist who insisted that they were lying would be, to them, a right-winger.

This is another reason why Duke profs (aside from the Econ profs, who likely don't mind being called right-wingers) have feared publicly opposing the 88.

The "softer" the "science", the more being thought a right-winger is a terrible thing. It just won't do; it conveys images of stupidity, loutishness, backwardness. One is suspected of watching Bill O'Reilly, of having a thing for Ann Coulter, of idolizing Dick Cheney, and of being in favor of the war.

Excerpts from David Horowitz's excellent speech at Duke, (he was shouted down). Compare this to the totalitarian nature of the Gang of 88's "Shut up and sing" event on Monday. Free speech, listening, yeah sure...

It should be noted that Horowitz was one of them - a red diaper anarchist, a member of the Black Panthers - and then saw the light after they ate their own and murdered one of his friends.

"...Many departments and programs at this institution – Anthopology, Women’s Studies, African and African American Studies, Literature, Philosophy, English, the Multicultural Center, the Major Speakers program, the Institute of U.S. Critical Studies, and the John Hope Franklin Center – were not happy about the prospect of my appearance and rejected the requests of the students who arranged this evening to co-sponsor my event. In fact, only one academic department, Political Science, thought it might be a good idea to have an intellectual dialogue at Duke by extending a rare invitation to a conservative like myself to appear at an institution of higher learning.[1]

Things would be quite different, of course, if I were a convicted terrorist, like Laura Whitehorn, a former member of the Weather Underground who was invited to speak at Duke in 2002 by the African American Studies Department. The professors who invited Ms. Whitehorn presented her to unsuspecting students as a “human rights activist,” until the conservatives on campus placed an ad in the Duke Chronicle informing the Duke community of her criminal record.

Or, I would be welcomed by several liberal arts faculties at Duke if I were a Jew-hating Palestinian terrorist like Professor Sami al-Arian -- the North American head of an organization responsible for over 100 suicide bombings of innocent civilians in the Middle East. If this were my credential, I would have been invited by a collection of Duke departments who put together a symposium on “National Security and Civil Liberties” and invited Professor al-Arian as the keynote speaker for their event, speaking as a civil libertarian of course. This event took place in 2002. Too bad Professor Al-Arian can’t come back this year, because he’s in jail.[2]

Or perhaps if I were a self-declared enemy of Israel whose main claim to fame was writing a book describing the Holocaust as an industry which money-grubbing Jews exploit to enrich themselves further, like Professor Norman Finkelstein, I would also be welcomed by academic departments here, as he was recently.

Or perhaps if I were a washed-up calypso singer who thought that the Bush administration was the Third Reich and that Colin Powell a “house slave,” like Harry Belafonte, I might be invited to celebrate Martin Luther King Day, a $45,000 event which featured Mr. Belafonte just weeks ago. Then the president of the University would be in attendance and the provost would be describing me as an Old Testament prophet, as he did Belafonte on Martin Luther King Day this year..."

The AAAS building name should be changed to Seligmann, Finnerty, and Evans so that those radical marxists have to walk under the masthead and through the doors every day, much like Germans being forced to tour the death camps at the end of WWII.

I'd suggest that after the civil suits have been paid, that any funds donated be given to Duke under the proviso that the building name be changed.

The potbangers were/are a bunch of mean-spirited people who wanted national attention to the "crime" and to themselves, and the whole thing turned into a boomerang to bring national attention to the boys' innocence and what rats the potbangers are. May they pay for it, both morally and monetarily.

It is of interest that the potbangers were successful in getting their initial demands met: i.e., canceling the lacrosse season and getting the coach fired!

Of particular interest to me is that this event was commandeered for their own purposes by those with agendas: the feminists, etc.

But surely one has to guard against the same thing happening in the reaction to the potbangers. Take a look at the number of posts here—today and previously-- that push an anti-Palestinian pro-Israeli agenda. Do I smell a conspiracy here? Count me out of this part of the anti-potbanger revolt!

The irony is that the people in this loose group of liars and misfits constantly are claiming that they are "oppressed" and "victims" of "the system." I find it very interesting that our "scrapbook" reporter talks about giving these young men "a taste of the justice system."

It is my fervent hope that a number of participants also receive a "taste" of the system, at least in civil court. Nifong, Himan, Gottlieb, Crystal, Wilson, and Addison are criminals and deserve to go to prison for conspiring to create and promote this hoax.

But people like Sam Hummel and many of the others mentioned need to receive at least a taste of the civil system. Since Karla Holloway was one of the main characters in pushing the sexual assault charges again Houston Baker into the Orwellian Memory Hole, she needs to be able to explain in a court of law why she and Duke treated Baker differently.

Indeed, instead of pots and pans, let their be subpoenas, as these can create much more "tasty" legal dishes than those pots can make.

I don't believe for a second Attorney General Cooper is "just making a thorough assessment ..."The evidence that no crime was committed is overwhelming. It doesn't take months to figure that out.AG Cooper is playing a political game and I won't be surprised if he opts for a trial.

KC said"The potbangers were a loose coalition of three factions: a handful of professional protesters; some far-left Duke graduate students and professors (like Kim Curtis); and Trinity Park residents who disliked Duke undergraduates."

Many Trinity Park residents disliked Duke undergraduates for altogether understandable reasons --- they were extremely noisy into the early morning hours, threw trash around, and they responded in a hostile fashion to request for some consideration of those living nearby. Potbanging took hold as a clever, funny way to wake up early the same students who had taken pride in keeping the neighborhood awake at 2am. The initial phase of potbanging was reasonable from the neighbor's perspective based on the information available at the time.

But, as quoted, people began to have 2nd thoughts (and potbanging faded as a broad-based action) once it became clear that there were no DNA matches and that, contrary to early reports, there had been cooperation by team captains from the start.

Many neighbors now are among the team's strongest defenders against the false allegations and false charges. They remain negative on disruptive, drunken parties into the early morning hours, as you would be too if it was the residence next to your own.

Between the G88 (and its ilk on campuses across the country) and the shouting down of any conservative viewpoint on campus and elsewhere, many have been driven away from their liberal roots.

It's not that we've come to accept conservatism's tenets as much as the left has become an embarassment.

Broadly speaking, liberalism, to many, used to emphasize individual rights, limitations on power and government, freely exchanged ideas, law and order, and a market-driven economy that supports free private enterprise and gives equal opportunity for success.

This classic (at least during my youth) definition of liberalism has been perverted by what many call the New Left. They've highjacked the Democrats.

I now have no choice but to vote for the lesser of two evils, that is, whomever opposes the ideological rantings of The New Left. My vote doesn't always square with some of my beliefs (pro-choice, e.g.), but there are bigger battles to be fought.

KC - thank you for documenting the behavior of the pot-bangers, and their inevitable attempt to airbrush their misdeeds. They must be held accountable for their actions.

Among the most discouraging aspects of this case are (a) the craven behavior of Bob Ashley and the Durham H-S in purposely misleading the public on such matters as the team captains cooperation with the police, and (b) the willingness of Duke president Brodhead to pacify the most radical elements of his faculty in acceding to their demands for Pressler's firing.

Interesting. Are there noise ordinances in Trinity Park? Are they enforced? What are the (escalating?) penalties?

Why would anyone choose to live next to rowdy college students that cannot be controlled? Is the noise a recent phenomena? (When I was in school in the early seventies and lived off campus, there were loud parties then, often past 2 am.)

Which begs the question - if noise ordinances are non-existent and unenforced, and student parties go into the middle of the night as they have since at least the sixties, then why live in that environment? Would you purchase a home next to a railroad where rumbling freight trains interrupt your sleep every night?

Since I'm completely on the side of the falsely accused in this case, I will say, in fairness, I'm sure the lax guys could be a real annoyance to other Trinity Park residents. But isn't the law supposed to take care of that, with fines and the like?

"There aren't too many people who have come out of the current Duke controversy looking good, but there are two that have performed about as well as possible, it seems to me, under current circumstances. The first is the editor (and by extension, the reporters) of the Duke student newspaper, the Chronicle, whose coverage has been first-rate. As the Crimson demonstrated last spring during the Summers controversy, student newspapers with talented reporters can actually outperform the regular media on campus stories.The second is Duke's president, Richard Brodhead. He--quite appropriately, it seems to me--suspended and then cancelled the lacrosse season; based on the most benign interpretations of their actions, many of the lacrosse players were guilty of conduct unbecoming university students and gravely embarrassing the school. He's reached out to students and administrators at NCCU. At the same time, he's avoided any rush to judgment."

Is this a series of candidates for "Ugliest Woman at Duke" contest? A worse collection of just plain angry people looking for some place to vent couldn't be found anywhere.

Good round up. BTW, none of these pics nor any of the "pot bangers" can be found through either Google or Dogpile. I think the Group has managed to censor Google (like what else is new about the increasingly unreliable Google?) because nothing is available.

Superb explication, K.C. I hope this is a big chapter in the book. Have you looked into means of communication, e.g., Trinity Park listserve? I have read a TP denizen's comments bragging that "they" "broke" the story, fanned it, and that the N.O. merely followed its contours. Means of communication would go a long way toward explaining instantaneous groupthink and assuredness. Please don't forget Sam Humjob and other low level Duke employees who probably spent much company time delightedly fanning the flames and rallying the fringe professionals in those heady days. sic semper tyrannis

Brodhead reached out to NCCU. He cancelled the lacrosse season. And at the same time didn't have a rush to judgment? You have got to be kidding me - NCCU is thug central, with a student shot to death the other day, and the lacrosse season was ended why?

How about the latest rape - oh yeah, that doesn't count, because the victim was a woman Duke student and the perp is black. Same old story in Durham - no hay can be made from a black man raping someone - if you've seen it one in Durham you've seen it a hundred times. Brodhead needs to go back up north - he is a limp wristed administrator who is in over his head.

To commenters complaining about how long it is taking AG Cooper's office to review the case: I have to agree with poster Vivien Thomas here, at least 95%. There are thousands of pages of material to go through, and the AG has stated that his office plans to independently speak with the accuser, the investigators, and the defendants and their lawyers. This will take time--and this case is presumably not the only one in the AG's office right now. Whether or not it is obvious to us what the outcome should be, it's an important duty of the AG to try to instill public confidence that the investigation has been thorough and complete before taking any action. (My 5% is that, of course, one aspect of this need to instill public confidence is political, rather than "pure"; nevertheless, it's still necessary--and I don't think it has much to do with the AG's party affiliation, though I know the vociferous anti-Democrats who post here won't agree.)

"We had no way of knowing that what he ( Nifong) was saying could have been anything but the truth" ...Richard Brodhead to Ed Bradley .

9:04 AM

This is a most amazing statement. Somehow, this "truth" was hidden from Brodhead when, in fact, it was patently obvious that Nifong was lying. A number of us had jumped on this thing at the beginning, realizing that the facts of the case were not adding up.

Either Brodhead was naive or he wanted Nifong to be telling the truth so his own actions and those of the people at Duke could be justified. This is an exercise in self-justification, not discernment.

Interesting. Are there noise ordinances in Trinity Park? Are they enforced? What are the (escalating?) penalties?

Why would anyone choose to live next to rowdy college students that cannot be controlled? Is the noise a recent phenomena? (When I was in school in the early seventies and lived off campus, there were loud parties then, often past 2 am.)

Which begs the question - if noise ordinances are non-existent and unenforced, and student parties go into the middle of the night as they have since at least the sixties, then why live in that environment? Would you purchase a home next to a railroad where rumbling freight trains interrupt your sleep every night?

Most of the people who live in Trinity Park have a Duke affiliation of some kind. They are not against parties and not against Duke students. The neighborhood situation did however grow more tense when Nan Keohane pushed many on-campus groups into some of the big houses there, and when these houses became the site of parties throughout the week, not just weekends. What made it more tense was the behavior of many attending the parties (not necessarily residents) who trampled through neighbors yards, used neighbors yards and neighbors porches as urinals (houses other than where the parties were held), and responded aggressively and rudely to any comments.

People get along with their neighbors much better if they don't have to have confrontations on their own porches and in their own yards at 3 am, and if they don't have to pick up the neighbors trash each morning.

This student behavior was not taking place at a number of houses in Trinity Park, not just one house.

There are noise ordinances, and they were enforced occasionally and unevenly by the DPD. That is why some of the students who lived there had one or more earlier citations.

Of course there had been the big ALE raid some months before, with most students cited then receiving no penalty. That outcome came because the court properly recognized that the citations were not given in a lawful fashion. However, the fact that the students "got away with it" did seem to embolden the feelings of some students that with lawyers they were immune to any sanction. This incident, while correctly decided, was what made some of Nifong's later (improper) comments find resonance.

In was in recognition that things were going down hill that Duke U had started buying the houses so as to no longer rent them to student groups, and had started doing that well before the March incidents.

When the (false) reports of the accusations against the lacrosse team first became public, many of the accumulated frustrations with Duke students unfortunately crystalized and focused on what people believed had happened, based on comments from the police spokesman. People felt that just as it is not illegal to hire strippers, it is not illegal to bang pots (within the noise ordinance), so they did.

But, the Trinity Park neighbors are perceptive too, and they never saw their frustrations as a justification for any sort of false indictments. They did back off pretty quickly once the contradictory facts began to leak out.

Duke is a major property owner in Durham, not just the campus itself, but thousands of acres of forest and hundreds of houses. They rent to student groups and faculty.

This fact alone is enough to make police officers resentful. I have dealt with the crew that is supposed to investigate rapes and they are, to a person, some of the dimmest human beings I have ever met. I will be amazed if anyone is charged with this latest rape - it is beyond their ability to put together a good case when a real rape has occurred. Fake rapes - they have that covered.

The following is an excerpt from a fascinating review on the Brothers Judd website, which compares Horowitz's "Radical Son" with Chambers "Witness," and heavily favors Chamber's work. I will try to provide a link in a moment. I cannot help but wonder if the thinking expressed in the excerpt below led some of the subset of Rump profs who were new to the Group to join in the Lubiano/Holloway foolishness.

"Those seeking to understand the passions stirred up by the Hiss Case need look no farther than the condescending aside of Hiss to Nixon : "My college was Harvard, I understand yours was Whittier." There, in a sentence, is expressed the contempt and animosity between classes which would soon turn a simple espionage case into the cause which separated a generation of Americans. So while it was common to blame Chambers and his supporters for McCarthyism, most of the blame should really fall upon the Anti-Anti-Communists, those who, though they did oppose communism, could not bear to see their peers brought down by commoners, no matter what crimes those peers may have committed in the putative name of those very commoners."

"Commoners" now meaning those (mostly "hooligan" bloggers but might include the barbarian, capitalist economics profs) who are(1) not privy to the superior, somewhat secret and unreviewable (where's the tape???) understanding of the gnostic marxist/revolutionary doctrine and (2) audacious enough to challenge the GRUMPS doctrine publicly despite their "elite" academic intellectual armor and the support/protection/armaments of the Kingdom of Duke.

Analogy doesn't work perfectly, but it is amusing me on this snowy morning.

Nothing new here really...it's a scene that has been played out many times when access to facts (or texts) has expanded suddenly and dramatically, forcing greater transparency and heightened scrutiny. Reminds me a little of the Reformation...guess who is the Martin Luther here? No offense to the modern day Vatican intended.

BA,I am still looking for a copy of "Political Prisoners." It seems to be mostly wildly expensive, unavailable, or both. If I ever get hold of a reasonably priced copy, I will send it to you when I am finished.

No need for that. Google is politically (far) left-leaning. Youtube censors conservative videos and those who dare to criticize islamofacists. Jihad videos are fine.Google maps shows old israeli locations as occupied terroritories. Google news takes input from far left blogs.Unfortunately, Google is just like CBS News and NY al-Times.

Housekeeping first : You have quotes around your post ...who are you quoting ?

Rhetorical flourish aside , you seem to believe that for " the most benign interpretation of their actions" they should have had their coach fired and their season cancelled . But you avoid describing that interpretation for fear of actual analysis free of PR rhetoric . For instance , the group contracting of strippers was not a violation of Duke policy and that in fact many such events were held ON DUKE CAMPUS in the school year 2005-2006 . Can you name another incident where a coach has been fired and a season cancelled for " benign interpretations " of some students actions that embarassed the institution..gravely even ? How about the recent on camera Miami football brawl ? Can you seriously state that had there been such " benign" infractions committed by some of the Basketball team members that Brodhead would have acted on this principle of " grave embarassment " and fired Coach K and cancelled their season ?

Brodhead , therefore , was certainly not intending that it was a " benign interpretation " that led him to violate his own stated leadership criteria : " Make no judgement , take no action until all of the facts are in ". ( 60 Minutes). And I suspect whomever you are quoting knows that too . Ironically , a student who supports the 88 wrote in the Chronical that you applaud , that the 88 and its actions can be traced to Brodhead's first statement . read that statement for Brodhead's " interpretation and you will find nothing benign about it . Out of the mouths of babes comes the simple truth of accountability .

In direct contradiction to what Kim Curtis appears to hold true about middle class/upper middle class males, I knew in my bones that 40 college kids were not going to sit around and allow a crime to be committed while they were available and able to stop it.

What a great and helpful paragraph!Beckett, you have the natural talent to be an organizational consultant.

You subjected this whole story to your internal Andy Rooney filter and sure enough...it just doesn't make any sense.

Good for you. Keep it up.

Did you read the quote from the student who felt remorse? She like you engaged her Andy Rooney filter and was horrified.

KC said: "But while the potbangers were ideologues, they weren’t fools."

As KC correctly noted, the potbangers were a loose coalition of neighbors and various cause people. The cause people seem to have been ideologues, intent on using the lacrosse players as actors in some imagined drama. On the other hand, the neighbors were mainly people who were frustrated with student behavior at 2am and wanted some action taken to calm things down. They were exasperated with the students but saw this as a low-level neighborhood issue. They were never supporters of any false charges.

8:25 Don't buy a house across the street from a church if you don't want people parking out in front of your home on Sunday morning...

Don't buy house in the noise cone of an airport if you don't like noise...

Quaint college neighborhoods aren't full of Vicars in deep thought...

9:57 AM "

In this particular case it was the students who came second, so following the logic above they should have chosen a different neighborhood.

But the extremes painted here are absolute, while the real situation was a question of degree. Students can have parties without going to the extreme in disruptiveness, just as neighbors can live with some inconveniences. People understand this.

It works for a mixed neighborhood of ages and interests when there is some accommodation all around. Transiently that was not the case. In the longer term it has been the case in Trinity Park for a long time, is now, and will be in the future.

As a former Duke student who lived on east campus for four years, I think the post from 9:46 should be thoroughly examined by anyone who wants to get angry at Trinity Park residents who are resentful about student neighbors. Many of them moved into the area before the partying was much of a problem; Duke's on-campus alcohol policies have shifted late night activities to other locations (as everyone at Duke knew they would).

"... many of the lacrosse players were guilty of conduct unbecoming university students and gravely embarrassing the school."

If you're talking about underage drinking then about 90% of all college students have engaged in conduct unbecoming and have gravely embarrassed their school.

Add hiring strippers for a party and you're still dealing with a significant % of all college students that have done that or something similar.

The LAX players haven't done anything remotely comparable to the social disaster caused by 1) the DA; 2) Durham PDP; 3) local and national main stream media; 4) Durham politicians, selected citizens of the pot-bangers variety, and the local chapter of the NAACP; and 5) selected Duke profs and administrators (including your boy Brodhead). Now those 5 groups are a prime example of conduct unbecoming and an embarrassment.

"...Of course the Marxist idea is to take from those who have and give it to those who don't; the "humanity" of this can not be simply accepted, whether such action is humane and just lies at the core of the argument..."

This is from the Judd's article regarding Horowitz and while well written I think it woefully misses regarding the relationship between Marxism and humanity (complete lack of).

There is that little sticky issue of all the shallow graves, maybe as many as 50 million total that tends to obliterate the notions that; Marxism works, but people just haven't properly instituted it yet, and that good intentions don't meet the reality.

10:11 Thanks, please let me clarify. The school came before the neighborhood, and schools have students. When one lives near a school, one you expect student parties.

My experience has been that many of those types of problems are solved if you invite your neighbors, regardless of age. They appreciate the thought, may attend, and tend to forgive more easily since the relationship is personalized. The other end of that is that those living in the house tend to respond since the relationship is personalized.

Calling the police due to noise should be a last step.

Banging pots/pans is beyond belief, low rent, and a very poor excuse that is attempting to justify the abhorent behavior of those involved with the "protest".

it's amusing how sam Hummel, selena sebring, and the other potbangers are trying to say they are not responsible for the individuals espousing mutilation (holding the "castrate" sign) when they were quite ready to judge the lax guys as an entire group. Since they won't reveal who the "castrate" sign psychopaths were (I guess they don't follow the advice of their own calls to confess, tell the truth, fess up..) maybe the lawsuits alone will be what makes them "out" each other a bit.

To those who say some of the Potbangers were neighbors frustrated by late night party antics -- noise, public urination, etc. -- and that they were not necessarily there to support the rape accusation ...

How does that square with the statement by the organizers that banging pots and pans has been a universal symbol throughout the world to express outrage at sexual violence? Simple, it doesn't.

If neighbors were frustrated with unruly students there were other ways to find a solution than joining a demonstration cooked up by the PC crowd to enable the false accusation by Precious and the circus created by the dishonesty of Nifong, the Durham PD, and others too numerous to mention individually.

I won't cut any of those who consider themselves merely "frustrated neighbors" and participated in the Potbangers Demonstration any slack. They, too, were looking for a scalp, and didn't care where it came from.

Simon, I never really thought about it--but you're absolutely correct: it is inappropriate to either Israeli bash or Palestinian bash on college campuses. Doesn't that constitute a "hostile environment," in much the same way that the G88 tried to fry whitey?

Duke parents and alumni have to come together and boot the riff-raff out of Duke.

I have used the NC Atty General website to leave a comment about how long the review is taking. Click on "contact us" at the top of their website. Use it, or telephone them. If you're from out of state, like me, perhaps you have NC relatives who vote, and can mention that, too.

it's amusing how sam Hummel, selena sebring, and the other potbangers are trying to say they are not responsible for the individuals espousing mutilation (holding the "castrate" sign) when they were quite ready to judge the lax guys as an entire group. Since they won't reveal who the "castrate" sign psychopaths were (I guess they don't follow the advice of their own calls to confess, tell the truth, fess up..) maybe the lawsuits alone will be what makes them "out" each other a bit.

11:12 AM

Yep. I do not recall anyone in that group condemning any of the signs at that time. Furthermore, Hummel put together a vigilante poster that had the phone numbers and emails of the players, and then plastered them all over campus.

If the guy thinks he can avoid a lawsuit now, he has another thing coming. Here is hoping that Sam Hummel meets the bar of justice.

BA, I got a good laugh out of my "Political Prisoners" slip...must be something in the subconscious...Anyhow, "Political Pilgrims," is very expensive--even in paperback--and also was listed as "unavailable" yesterday, according to my local bookstore. The owner and I found that very comical. Expensive on Amazon, too. More like a textbook price...or maybe a rare book price...which it seems to be, sort of. And that is too bad because our campuses could use some insight into how the intellectually super gifted, highly educated could be (and apparently many still are) so COMPLETELY wrong in the quest for Utopia.

To the extent folks, especially the educated elite, remain unaware of the staggering human toll of Marxism and its violent, nihilistic, underpinnings, it is surely not for lack of information. The "Manifesto" certainly spells out the necessary role of extreme violence in the "revolution" (although a professor of Comparative Literature who taught the Manifesto!!! recently argued this point with me), and the numerous efforts world wide to implement Marxism have provided reams of data along with extraordinary personal stories about its success or lack thereof in practice. Is anyone out there actually writing anything worth reading that supports Marxism? I would love to hear what on earth the arguments could be...besides the argument it just was done badly in the past. Too many disastrous examples available to go for that one.

May I also point out that the current exposure and discomfort of the GRUMPS fits rather nicely with Thomas Friedman's "The World Is Flat," only within the intellectual arena rather than the corporate environment? A flatter world will be good for academia, I expect, although very annoying, obviously, for some.

1. Focus on the Family2. The 700 club3. NeoCons4. Strom Thurmond, and by proxy, Trent Lott5. Jerry Falweel and his insititue of higher learning, Liberty U.6. Bob Jones U.7. The state of South Carolina8. Bill Donohue and his creepy version of Catholics as victims

Bill Anderson- That's true. None of the potbanging protestors insisted the "Castrate" sign be put away. I know people make light of castration, it's kind of used as a joke (since John Wayne Bobbit had his cut off, reapplied, and used the opportunity to make a porn movie out of it) but it's mutilation, plain and simple, no different from a call to remove someone's arm, leg, or breast. We have the photos of those sign-holders surrounded by the rest. It speaks a thousand words as to the barbarity of the potbangers.

It's also used as a reminder of what happened to black men accused of raping white women, guilty or not. Don't think for a minute that historical racial animus was not the driving force behind that sign.

They want reparations, whether it's a pound of flesh from "rich, white preppy kids," or those who would have the gall to stand up and demand those same kids be given the preumption of innocence and due process under the law.

As has been stated numerous times here, those three young men will always be guilty in the eyes of the loony-left wing, and no listening statements or silly panel discussion is going to change that.

You're right about the looney left not ever believing the Duke 3 are innocent. But we can certainly hope that many of them, as a result of civil actions, will have to sit for depositions that ultimately will expose them for the fools that they are.

"I am starting to get a sinking suspicion that this whole “shame the team into talking” tactic is really off base—am I the only one who feels almost guilty for the action over the past few days in light of this? I participated largely on the grounds that the “culture/wall of silence” was horrific...now I am feeling almost remorseful.Moreover, the student wondered in a remarkable burst of naïveté, “If the team captains volunteered, when first approached by the police, to give DNA and statements, why wasn’t this first conveyed in the media?”

What this student is feeling is sadness that s/he signed up for an Angry Studies class in the first place.What s/he knows deep down inside is that she is experiencing something that is ...NOT teaching.

There is an old Jewish phrase that this student already knows because she is a bright Duke student.

Also, I am ready to argue that the LAX defendants are actually defendants of a politically motivated (and, no, it is not just Mr. Nifong's political motivations at issue) hatefest and potentially political prisoners of the State of North Carolina. See where this thinking about Lubiano's "revolution" can get you?

Does anyone know what happened at the recent 6 hour or so meeting between the AG and defense counsel?

joe. t"We have the photos of those sign-holders surrounded by the rest. It speaks a thousand words as to the barbarity of the potbangers."

I would cut the neighbours a bit more slack. In any group you will have some idiots saying disgusting things. It does not necessarily reflect upon the entire group, anymore than the occasional racist post on this forum means we're all bigots.

2:17 I'd cut the neighbors slack if they apologized. They were not present b/c of nosiy parties, instead as a mob ready to lynch.

Any that were there otherwise had every opportunity to leave, or intervene. They did not.

I have no sympathy for those currently feeling guilt while the young men still have felony charges pending. For that matter I won't feel sympathetic once the charges are dropped. Why not?

Because the whole idea of screaming through a mega-phone, chanting ditties, and banging pots is contemptable and low rent that any that choose to effect change utilizing those methods, deserves all the shame that goes with it.

Giles : I have to disagree. The photos clearly show the potbangers calmly accepting the "Castrate" sign right in the middle of them. The physical proximity (as well as the ability to stop it) makes it far different from a message board like this where none of us can stop a racist from posting. (And, on another note, although I dislike racism, I haven't seen any racists espousing mutilation like the other side did).

When there are people around you loudly saying repulsive things, it takes a lot of courage to be the first person to confront them, courage that a lot of people do not possess. It would be nice if everyone were braver, but that's human nature.

I do not take the "castrate" banners to be indicative of the true sentiments of the whole crowd, anymore than I take the fact that Sasha Baron Cohen (as Borat) manged to get the patrons of an Arizona bar to sing along to "Throw the Jew down the well" to mean that they genuinely wanted to murder Jews.

> When there are people around you > loudly saying repulsive things, > it takes a lot of courage to be > the first person to confront > them, courage that a lot of > people do not possess. It would > be nice if everyone were braver, > but that's human nature.

If one didn't want to identifywith the sign and didn't want toconfront those holding it, thenthey could have simply left.

> I do not take the "castrate" > banners to be indicative of the > true sentiments of the whole > crowd, anymore than I take the > fact that

Let's make a minimal set then. Perhaps you could agree that the two carrying the sign and the protest leaders (who presumably ran the show) have those true sentiments. Any others that you'dlike to toss in? The folks at the protest don't seem too interested in talking about it.

It seems to me that there were many protestors on the property itself which seems like trespass. And they left stuff attached to parts of the property which sounds like littering.

Perhaps we can all just agree thatwhat they did was foolish and maybenot FOOLISH. And that their reputations would be served well with an apology.

I think that the best place to go would be Durham-Responds if you want to talk to those guys.

It seems that there are a few that regret their actions. I even saw one apology over there. Most of them just want to move on I think. I haven't been over there to see what they're saying about the latest incident.

In my opinion, everyone of those holding the "castrate" sign and those standing around the castrate sign (thus showing approval) were enjoying threatening the lives of innocent people. I hope those photos make it into the forthcoming books on this case, so they are forever cemented for who they are. (I don't believe they have any moral regrets for what they did at all. They're just mad the public now sees them for what they are).

Michael: I've looked over the Durham-Responds yahoo Groups. They're a joke. They won't allow most of the critical messages to be posted anyway. They just allow a few messages to come through so it doesn't look so obvious that they heavily edit the content. They're interesting, though, to view the posts back in March and early April to see how vicious those people are. (Lawsuit time).

The war in Lebanon is starting again, another U.S. aircraft carrier is chugging to the Persian Gulf, tens of millions in our own country are without healthcare, New Orleans is still a shambles. I could give more examples of real problems, urgent problems. Yet this blog has produced thousands of pages of musings and accusations and fantasies about a minor incident at Duke University. There's something wrong here, folks.

Do you consider the ability of the criminal justice system to railroad innocent people a minor matter?

There are a bunch of other issues in this case that make it interesting too.

If you think this case is a waste of your time, I heartily suggest spending your time in those causes that you referenced.

Telling others how to spend theirtime is generally an unproductiveendeavor. I realize that some wouldlike the heat taken off them andperhaps you're attempting a distraction. But I think that youunderestimate the readers here inthat case.

4:13 : The railroading of innocent people by a hateful public and a criminal D.A. is a subject that involves the core of what we consider a civilized society. The other important stories don't negate that.

" The war in Lebanon is starting again, another U.S. aircraft carrier is chugging to the Persian Gulf, tens of millions in our own country are without healthcare, New Orleans is still a shambles. I could give more examples of real problems, urgent problems. Yet this blog has produced thousands of pages of musings and accusations and fantasies about a minor incident at Duke University. There's something wrong here, folks.

4:13 PM "

What's wrong here? Is this a zero-sum game, where folks can't pay attention to a minor incident at Duke without being accused of ignoring all the "pressing problems" in the world?

With that line of reasoning, none of us should write letters to the editor about any subject other than what's happening in the Middle East.

None of us should read any books, watch any TV programs, or do anything that doesn't directly affect a situation none of us have any control over.

The destruction of civil rights against citizens of this nation -- no matter their race or sex -- is not a minor incident. What is -- to me -- funny is the absolute stupidity of a group of scholars at a so-called top university.

Your comment is so disingenous. If the three being railroaded were black, would you think this is not worth everyone's outrage? I don't think so. If you really think this site is a waste of time, leave.

The climate surrounding this topic is truly frightening. Recently trading comments on Amanda Marcotte's blog, pandagon.net, under various thread, I've had no less than 3 posters, including Amanda herself, state the they simply didn't want to hear my assessment of the case, and one poster stated explicitly that the only thing she'd used to form her opinion about the case was "decades of experience with rape victims".

The closed mindedness of people like Amanda Marcotte is matched only by the Bob Joneses and Pat Roberstons of the world. It is truly an exclusive fraternity.

Twenty-plus years ago, when I attended university, we always made a point of inviting the neighbors to any party we hosted, and they usually showed up, at least for a while. We hosted six parties per year, and scheduled them in consultation with the neighbors, too. We admittedly got quite loud at times, but NEVER received a single complaint. A little free beer and common courtesy bought a lot of goodwill back in the day.

" The war in Lebanon is starting again, another U.S. aircraft carrier is chugging to the Persian Gulf, tens of millions in our own country are without healthcare, New Orleans is still a shambles. I could give more examples of real problems, urgent problems. Yet this blog has produced thousands of pages of musings and accusations and fantasies about a minor incident at Duke University. There's something wrong here, folks.

4:13 PM "

I swear, I keep seeing this tactic used in comment threads over and over again - especially related to blog posts about the Durham hoax! Whenever any blogger tries to point out how different the LAX players were treated from how the current alleged rape is being handled, or point out Marcotte's idiotic statements about the Duke players, or whatever, there's always one troll who jumps in and moves the goalposts.

All I can figure is, it's their only winning strategy as this point. They've lost this battle, so they have to pretend that in the grand scheme of things, it's not important. Funny, that Group of 88 certainly spent a lot of time focusing on this topic. It's almost like the trolls don't want us to remember just WHO made this case a big deal.

"To those who say some of the Potbangers were neighbors frustrated by late night party antics -- noise, public urination, etc. -- and that they were not necessarily there to support the rape accusation ..."

...we say that a potbanging seems like a mighty odd way to protest NOISE. Loud protests are most often held as a way to draw attention to a problem that everyone is silent about and where there is no other course of action. If the real problem is that your neighborhood is NOISY, there's no way that anyone is going to suggest making MORE noise over, say, just calling the cops.

4:13 You omitted the crash of our Universities into mediocrity, the unabashed pap espoused by academic frauds, the complete lack of leadership, and the vicious, spiteful, threat against our country from within coming from the likes of the 88 and those that abet them.

Beckett 12:54AM describes me almost exactly in how I too concluded the odds against 40+ high performing, intelligent people from good families deciding - on an ad hoc basis to become conspirators in a major crime. I can accept 2-3 "bad apples" may exist in such a large group. But not that if the bad apples suddenly decided to rob a bank that the group of 43 others they were in the midst of would sit and watch as they donned ski masks and loaded shotguns, then sit and watch after they came back and counted money and asked everyone to get alibis straight.

If it was preposterous for a case for armed robbery to have only have transpired under a "INSTA-CONSPIRACY" involving 46, it was preposterous for rape. ****************************Professor Johnson - Please don't fall into the Group of 88 Trap. If you are going to quote students, please identify them.

KC may well find students, black Durhamites, even a few activists or Gang of 88'rs with cold feet willing to talk - but talk off the record or with their names not for public attribution. But unlike Wahneema Lubiano their quotes will be sourced, not "rekollakted" from Wahmeena memory, and made with the person's permission and knowledge that some editor in a publishing company may call to verify the veracity of the quote or opinion.

******************** Anonymous 1:20PM - A rather pathetic, and predictable Leftist attempt to draw moral equivalency. I hope you realize how stupid you appear to everyday Americans when you insist intolerant "creepy" Catholics and the 700 Club are the moral equivalent of Islamic Terrorists.

Shall we go on? I can do this all day.

Given how stupid you are, I have no doubt you can do this all day, and have for far too many years of your wasted, and ultimately trivial life.

**********************

An example of the Liberal Deflection Argument:

The war in Lebanon is starting again, another U.S. aircraft carrier is chugging to the Persian Gulf, tens of millions in our own country are without healthcare, New Orleans is still a shambles. I could give more examples of real problems, urgent problems. Yet this blog has produced thousands of pages of musings and accusations and fantasies about a minor incident at Duke University. There's something wrong here, folks.

4:13 PM

Translation:

1. I'm losing this argument and I like the unjust events that have happened. 2. Because I have lost the argument and have no facts to back my side..I then employ the deflecting ploy...Challenge the argument itself as non-legitimate or argue that attention on it "detracts from more important things".3. Examples:

a. Why are we talking about 3 lynchings in Alabama when far more important events are taking place in Europe as Pershing and our Expeditionary force battle the Hun? It's 1917 and we don't care about a few people a year killed for acting up, not when millions die overseas...b. Why all the focus on Nixon and Watergate. Shouldn't "those people" be more concerned with a cure for cancer?c. Why are we so obsessed with food safety after "The Jungle " was published when people are still homeless from the San Francisco Earthquake.

As other posters have replied, the argument is fatuous because it is never a zero-sum game. Attention on one issue does not mean we aren't spending 30 times as much for R&D on AIDs as for other diseases that kill far more people. Everyone is concerned with matters like food safety or war or miscarriages of justice that pose a threat to every citizen of similar abuse by prosecutors, law enforcement, or lax judges who free violent child molesters.

My point is everyone should learn to recognize "deflecting arguments" and other tools developed by sophists and marxist theoreticians to derail honest debate.************************

I find it very amusing that the G88 seem to be so up in arms about David Horowitz - considering that both the Angry Studies crowd and Horowitz have one major thing in common: they're both complete frauds.

9:39 here - I called Brodhead limp wristed (I should have said his response has been limp wristed - I will own that error) and you asked if I am homophobic. I am not - have never had a reason to fear homosexuals or homsexuality. In fact, a little girl on girl action is always a good thing. But I digress...

You asked what should be done - how about closing the black "frat" where this rape took place? How's that for starters? And what about all the fraternity members not saying anything - is that some sort of group think thing? Where is the PC crowd to call them out on this?

And one more thing - the Democrat leader of the NC senate stepped down today - his corruption finally caught up with him - imagine that - a democrat with his hand in the till. What's a liberal to do, eh 9:48?

oh, well, i didn't realize the alleged victim in the new duke rape case was white. since that's the case, i have no sympathy for her whatsoever. she went to the black frat and stayed well into the night. what the hell else do you expect?

being liberal has a price. maybe she'll finally realize what those people are like.

Ok, I'll bite - those people? To whom do you refer? Duke students? Duke students who are members of a fraternity? Duke students who are members of a black fraternity? People who attend a frat party but are none of the above? What the heck are you getting at?

Ah yes, another troll regaling us with an anonymous post that is nothing more than a veiled racial attack.

The inly problem trolls like these have, is that myself, as well as just about every other person who posts here regularly are not racists. That's what the crackheads at the shut and listen farce would have you believe, but sorry, your attempt to denigrate KCs work and the commenters just aint gonna fly.

Women have a lot of behaviors that can lead to trouble. I am not talking about nuns or old ladies like me. Some young women seem to think they can drink, stay out late, dress provocatively, say anything, go anywhere, go off campus and party, and laws will protect them. Laws do not protect people, laws punish the perps if they ever are caught, maybe.

"KC JOHNSON WILL REDEFINE THE PULITZER PRIZE. PROFESSOR JOHNSON WILL OPEN IT UP TO BLOGGERS AND LEAVE CONVENTIONAL MEDIA IN THE DUST. TRUST ME."

Are you insane?Pulitzer committee loves G88, Angry Studies, Jihahists and anyone who helps Al-Qaida or dems.Dan Rather is more likely recipient of Pulitzer or somebody at NYT who reveals the next state secret to Iran or Al-Qaida.

Paul Gigot and The Wall Steet Journal editorial page should hire Professor Johnson, who would join the incomparable Dorothy Rabinowitz. She tried to warn the nation of the horrible prosecutorial sex-abuse cases in North Carolina, Massachusetts and Washington state.

The idea that a rape victim is non-sympathetic because she was in one place or another at one time or another is simply indefensible and despicable.

When I was at Duke, I would have had no problem with my girlfriend attending a party with any Duke fraternity either there in attendance or for sponsorship of the party, with the exception of one which was not a historically or exclusively black fraternity. However, I would have a problem with my girlfriend attending ANY off campus party alone that was in the "off-East" area of Durham where this party occurred. That area simply contains too many bums and drug addicts in this area of town. Any trepidation I would have about a female friend attending such a party would be that some other element would insert itself into the party once it had died down and few people were around to monitor who came in and out of the house.

This is not what Duke is about. This girl should have been able to have gotten into her PJ and taken a nap in a secluded area of the house without anyone bothering her other than to tell her to get out of their room and go home. That is the type of world we all want to live in.

I could give more examples of real problems... Yet this blog has produced thousands of pages of musings and accusations and fantasies about a minor incident... There's something wrong here, folks.

Oh...so were there no "real" problems in March-April-May 2006? No actual crises, no true tensions in the world? This is why the potbangers and Newsweek and the Listeners had to make the phoney Duke "rape" the center of their attention. Hmmm...it sure seemed like a big deal to them then. Seemed like a social disaster for which nobody should wait, didn't it?

Yes, there certainly is "something wrong here, folks". Now that even the most rabid agendist can barely squeak out a lame "well, all's I know's something happened there that night...at least drinkin'" the apologists are trying to portray bloggers' insistence on justice and the exposure of institutional racism as a case of poor priorities. Transparent. Pathetic. Laughable. Sorry, 4:13 PM, but nobody here -- nobody -- is fooled.

I am the one who asked Prof. Johnson to cite to his quotes. How do you know that he has kept notes and investigated the truthfulness of the cited quote?

Because in the past, KC Johnson has posted on what protocols he uses for sources that wish to retain their anonymity. He tries to verify them, and in the case of material he publishes, ensures he has their permission..allows them to review quotes for accuracy if drawn from notes...and also says that he discusses the possibility that an editor may call to verify veracity.

In short, KC adheres to the "SOP" academic methodology that certain members of the Gang of 88 unethically and with scant regard for research standards shun. Perhaps a prime reason why KC focuses so much on the Gang of 88's ethical shortcomings in comparison to other Durham groups railroading the lacrosse players.

In other disciplines, Wahneema's actions would have only gained her scorn as unprofessional and using flawed data. Luckily for her, she and others of the 88 are in disciplines that tolerate such sloppy or misleading academic work.********

I would like to live in your world too, but the reality is that it cannot be. Women have to take care of themselves and avoid places, behaviors and situations that put them at risk because trust should never be given wholesale, it must be earned. I thought you were talking to me but I wasn't the poster at 8:38. I lived in the Triangle for many years. I worked in NC State Prison Medical Service. The people there, the ones who had been caught, never cared about laws, they only cared about getting caught for the one that put them behind bars.MTU'76

Thanks for the pictures. On the first link there are two interesting entries:

Due process of the lawby J Rees • Monday April 03, 2006 at 07:23 PM

While I understand the outrage. I just want to ask all who demonstrated to come back and apologize if it turns out the players are all innocent of the allegations.

The only charges filed so far have been in the court of public opinion. We must all recognize what the bill of rights grants all citizens.

I suggest those not familiar with the 5th and 6th amendments to review them now. ------------MRby Marco • Thursday June 15, 2006 at 12:50 AM

It is now two months later. We find out she is a prosititute, Bi-Polar, Drunk, just came from doing a sex act for a couple, and was driven around for the previous two days on sex appts. The Sane Exam doesn't say rape, no injuries just swelling in the vagina walls. There is No DNA from the Players(no condoms), but the Alleged Victim admits to having sex with other three guys. She claimed Kim helped rape her & stole her money. She has a history of making wild claims. And two players have alibis they wern't there and it took 3 photo IDs to pick them. It was all FALSE!

4:13 “I could give more examples of real problems.”To imply that because someone takes an interest in a particular event that that person is ignoring other events YOU deem worthy is fatuous. We are all busy people....it says something that so many have devoted time and attention to the lacrosse case. There are obviously elements of this case that a variety of people find compelling for some reason. If you are not one - why are you bothering to post? I think someone already made this point earlier, but this blog might not have existed if there had not been a blanket condemnation of the lacrosse team by the MSM and others. Such blatant, sweeping prejudice raised red flags...and tipped many off that this was a fraud.

10:29 Comment about “the type of world we all want to live in”... While we can hope for a better world, and do our part to make it so, what raging idiot would live as thought it was a fait accompli? I do not plan on telling my daughter that she should be able to party at a fraternity until 3 am and feel free to crash there in her jammies because no one SHOULD rape her. Maybe that very thought is the root of the incomprehensible position of the potbangers and the Group of 88. They live in a fantasy world that ignores the realities that we currently live with. They want the greatest evil to be the middle/upper middle class white boy next door. They will ignore the grim reality of statistics until the day - like Baker experienced - reality enters their home and attacks their loved ones. Supported by the increasingly pointless MSM, the truth will be obscured by careful selection and reporting of facts and the trumpeting of opinions unsupported by anything other than the accepted agendas. The accused reminded me of my sons...I noted the case because of my certainty that boys like that would never bother to touch a homely, hygenically-challenged sex worker of any race given the gorgeous coeds they have access to. Then, the prosecutorial abuse amazed and appalled me - flaws in our legal system should draw everyone’s attention. Certainly, no one is complaining about the success of the Innocence Project. Finally - a subject I was already paying close attention to reared its ugly head - the rampant bias in both the media and our universities. Thank goodness for blogs like this...it certainly keeps me from succumbing to a sense of futility as I scan yet another biased textbook that attempts to subtly indoctrinate my children rather than educate them. And no, I am not a fundamentalist anything.

Vivian :: Ann coulter says "You can greatly reduce your chances of being raped and mmurdered if you are not out on the streets after 12:00 midnight drunk." That is the way it is today, It is no service to women to pretend it is not so. Dressed like a tramp does not help their cause. 49& of rape claims are false, In this day and age, women who put themselves in bad situations,are lucky if they do not write their name written on their forehead or murdered.

M. Simon, Good point. All the experiments in Marxism thus far essentially have skipped the important stage of capital buildup. I suppose Marx really had Western Europe in mind when planning his Utopia. And at this point we have too many economists debunking Marx and too many potent examples of Marxist inspired economic, social and political disasters to expect any halfway educated group of people to try this again. Except for the Venezualans... and, apparently, some members of the super educated elite. What is this all about? Don't they have access to information? Yes, I see it is a secular faith stoked occasionally by charismatic leaders, but really, WHAT can they be thinking?

Johnson inaccurately attributes this quote to me,Christina Headrick - but someone with the name of "Kriti" wrote it.

"white people who are incredulous and skeptical that racism exists at all and attribute claims that racism does indeed exist to some sort of enigmatic and massive hallucination on the part of people of color.”

Also, Johnson writes..... according to a March 31 memorandum prepared by Headrick, they now also demanded “creation of a huge, multi-million dollar fund to address racial inequities/issues by Duke”; “improved educational programs to combat racism at Duke”; and an “educational scholarship fund to be created at NCCU.”

Well, I think this statement is also inaccurate. None of these things were ever "demanded" in a memorandum, at least not any that I wrote. All I did was list many random ideas in a summary post on the group as part of an ongoing community discussion.

Just wanted to correct these two things, since quotes from another Internet site were pulled and either taken out of context or attributed to the wrong source in this post. I can't speak to the accuracy of the information about anyone else that Johnson quoted here.

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I am from Higgins Beach, in Scarborough, Maine, six miles south of Portland. After spending five years as track announcer at Scarborough Downs, I left to study fulltime in graduate school, where my advisor was Akira Iriye. I have a B.A. and Ph.D. from Harvard, and an M.A. from the University of Chicago. At Brooklyn College and the CUNY Graduate Center, I teach classes in 20th century US political, constitutional, and diplomatic history; in 2007-8, I was Fulbright Distinguished Chair for the Humanities at Tel Aviv University.

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"From the Scottsboro Boys to Clarence Gideon, some of the most memorable legal narratives have been tales of the wrongly accused. Now “Until Proven Innocent,” a new book about the false allegations of rape against three Duke lacrosse players, can join these galvanizing cautionary tales . . , Taylor and Johnson have made a gripping contribution to the literature of the wrongly accused. They remind us of the importance of constitutional checks on prosecutorial abuse. And they emphasize the lesson that Duke callously advised its own students to ignore: if you’re unjustly suspected of any crime, immediately call the best lawyer you can afford."--Jeffrey Rosen, New York Times Book Review