"We've addressed it forever," Coughlin told Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News. "We work it the same way, every week. We study, we work hard, we think we have a nice play and we think we can run with things."

Why is this still an issue? Why? Is some of it execution? It sure is. However, this offense is extremely unimaginative. They live and die by big plays. From start to finish, what you see is what you get. They simply don't adjust, while the opposing team does. If they are still struggling with scoring in the redzone after all this time, then Coughlin needs to take a serious look at the plays being called.

When Wilson and Brown line up in the backfield, guess what? It's a running play. Execution is only part of it. Keeping your opponent guessing and off balance is as equally important. Throwing bombs on 3rd & 1 is just head scratching. The entire offense was off on Sunday, but it's a bigger problem then just this one game. They had better start punching it in, because they are heading into the meat and potatoes of their schedule.

"We've addressed it forever," Coughlin told Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News. "We work it the same way, every week. We study, we work hard, we think we have a nice play and we think we can run with things."

Why is this still an issue? Why? Is some of it execution? It sure is. However, this offense is extremely unimaginative. They live and die by big plays. From start to finish, what you see is what you get. They simply don't adjust, while the opposing team does. If they are still struggling with scoring in the redzone after all this time, then Coughlin needs to take a serious look at the plays being called.

When Wilson and Brown line up in the backfield, guess what? It's a running play. Execution is only part of it. Keeping your opponent guessing and off balance is as equally important. Throwing bombs on 3rd & 1 is just head scratching. The entire offense was off on Sunday, but it's a bigger problem then just this one game. They had better start punching it in, because they are heading into the meat and potatoes of their schedule.Does this bother anyone else? It almost seems contradictory, you've been addressing red zone issues but won't change your game plan when it's not working..

"We've addressed it forever," Coughlin told Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News. "We work it the same way, every week. We study, we work hard, we think we have a nice play and we think we can run with things."

Why is this still an issue? Why? Is some of it execution? It sure is. However, this offense is extremely unimaginative. They live and die by big plays. From start to finish, what you see is what you get. They simply don't adjust, while the opposing team does. If they are still struggling with scoring in the redzone after all this time, then Coughlin needs to take a serious look at the plays being called.

When Wilson and Brown line up in the backfield, guess what? It's a running play. Execution is only part of it. Keeping your opponent guessing and off balance is as equally important. Throwing bombs on 3rd & 1 is just head scratching. The entire offense was off on Sunday, but it's a bigger problem then just this one game. They had better start punching it in, because they are heading into the meat and potatoes of their schedule.

The offense is not getting the job done whatever the prob is. I'm not sure I would call it "unimagative". They play by a rule book and game plan don't they? Sorry I guess I am not understanding. :confused:

rainierjef

10-30-2012, 11:12 AM

3rd and 2 Shotgun snap to bradshaw for a 1 yard loss I believe. This is why!

Rudy

10-30-2012, 11:15 AM

3rd and 2 Shotgun snap to bradshaw for a 1 yard loss I believe. This is why!Hooray! a terrible play that never works but we keep doing it! woo!

FBomb

10-30-2012, 11:16 AM

Hooray! a terrible play that never works but we keep doing it! woo!

Yeah.....I despise that play!!!

ashleymarie

10-30-2012, 11:16 AM

3rd and 2 Shotgun snap to bradshaw for a 1 yard loss I believe. This is why!

So am I understanding this right? It's the play calling and not the execution. But shouldn't that play work? If not why keep it in the game plan? Throw it out. No?

Rudy

10-30-2012, 11:21 AM

So am I understanding this right? It's the play calling and not the execution. But shouldn't that play work? If not why keep it in the game plan? Throw it out. No?This is where things get really complicated. It's both the play calling and the execution. Gilbride is backwards. If it's 3rd and short we throw a 50 yard pass, most likely incomplete because it's a stupid play call. When it's like 2nd and 25 we run the ball then we lose yardage, so now we HAVE to throw it (which is predictable) and then it's incomplete and there's our 3 and out.

"We've addressed it forever," Coughlin told Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News. "We work it the same way, every week. We study, we work hard, we think we have a nice play and we think we can run with things."

Why is this still an issue? Why? Is some of it execution? It sure is. However, this offense is extremely unimaginative. They live and die by big plays. From start to finish, what you see is what you get. They simply don't adjust, while the opposing team does. If they are still struggling with scoring in the redzone after all this time, then Coughlin needs to take a serious look at the plays being called.

When Wilson and Brown line up in the backfield, guess what? It's a running play. Execution is only part of it. Keeping your opponent guessing and off balance is as equally important. Throwing bombs on 3rd & 1 is just head scratching. The entire offense was off on Sunday, but it's a bigger problem then just this one game. They had better start punching it in, because they are heading into the meat and potatoes of their schedule.

Against the Cowboys, Brown came and at least twice left the backfield and lined up as a receiver.

When they throw on 1st down, we want them to run. When they run on first down, we want them to be imaginative.

"We've addressed it forever," Coughlin told Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News. "We work it the same way, every week. We study, we work hard, we think we have a nice play and we think we can run with things."

Why is this still an issue? Why? Is some of it execution? It sure is. However, this offense is extremely unimaginative. They live and die by big plays. From start to finish, what you see is what you get. They simply don't adjust, while the opposing team does. If they are still struggling with scoring in the redzone after all this time, then Coughlin needs to take a serious look at the plays being called.

When Wilson and Brown line up in the backfield, guess what? It's a running play. Execution is only part of it. Keeping your opponent guessing and off balance is as equally important. Throwing bombs on 3rd & 1 is just head scratching. The entire offense was off on Sunday, but it's a bigger problem then just this one game. They had better start punching it in, because they are heading into the meat and potatoes of their schedule.

How much of what you posted is a TC quote?

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 11:24 AM

3rd and 2 Shotgun snap to bradshaw for a 1 yard loss I believe. This is why!

Would it have worked with Wilson?

Rudy

10-30-2012, 11:25 AM

Would it have worked with Wilson?Perhaps, but we wouldn't know that since he isn't given the same opportunities

rainierjef

10-30-2012, 11:25 AM

So am I understanding this right? It's the play calling and not the execution. But shouldn't that play work? If not why keep it in the game plan? Throw it out. No?

Actual I believe that was the first time I've seen that play run, where the ball was snapped to bradshaw and Eli does the ballerina spin in the backfield as if we all don't know whats going on already. the defense sniffed that out quickly.

I think its both honestly, to play devils advocate had it been a shotgun snap to Brown he probably runs up the A/B gap and falls for 3 yards, Bradshaw tried to bounce it outside got stopped.

stormblue

10-30-2012, 11:26 AM

its not our playbook...gilbride draws them up in the dirt as good as anybody.
the problem is the chess-match.
we call a 7 yard slant or an 8 yard out route when its 3rd and 10.
we call a 25 yard seem route or shotgun draw.when its 3rd 4.
and we waste power dives on 3rd or 4th and short or inside the 5
in the redzone when we don't have a power 0-line.
they are ok somtimes between the 20's , but they can't move anybody off the line.

its not the plays....its the lack of play-calling strategy.

Rudy

10-30-2012, 11:27 AM

its not our playbook...gilbride draws them up in the dirt as good as anybody.
the problem is the chess-match.
we call a 7 yard slant or an 8 yard out route when its 3rd and 10.
we call a 25 yard seem route or shotgun draw.when its 3rd 4.

its not the plays....its the lack play-calling strategy.Correct.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 11:31 AM

Perhaps, but we wouldn't know that since he isn't given the same opportunities

Bradshaw, unfortunately, is too slow to get to the outside but Wilson isn't. Had a faster running back, like Wilson, gotten a first down, what would we be saying about the play call?

I Bleed Blue

10-30-2012, 11:32 AM

Does this bother anyone else? It almost seems contradictory, you've been addressing red zone issues but won't change your game plan when it's not working..

Exactly. It's a huge contradiction. If you keep trying the same thing "Forever" as he put it, then obviously what your trying to do is the problem. He just seems out of touch sometimes. Good coach, who's just too damn stubborn for his own good sometimes. Change what you have been doing. It couldn't hurt.

Rudy

10-30-2012, 11:36 AM

Bradshaw, unfortunately, is too slow to get to the outside but Wilson isn't. Had a faster running back, like Wilson, gotten a first down, what would we be saying about the play call?I still hate the play call because we always do it. It's just so predictable, sometimes I call it before it's even done and most of the time we lose yardage. It's just not a good play.

Rudy

10-30-2012, 11:37 AM

Exactly. It's a huge contradiction. If you keep trying the same thing "Forever" as he put it, then obviously what your trying to do is the problem. He just seems out of touch sometimes. Good coach, who's just too damn stubborn for his own good sometimes. Change what you have been doing. It couldn't hurt.I feel like when we lose like 6 games in a row, Gilbride and company say "OH, I GOT IT NOW!" and change the game plan then. I do NOT want that to happen. These second half collapses need to end, and I think they will.

rainierjef

10-30-2012, 11:39 AM

Bradshaw, unfortunately, is too slow to get to the outside but Wilson isn't. Had a faster running back, like Wilson, gotten a first down, what would we be saying about the play call?
To be honest with you Roan, I would still call the play a stupid call. You call what has a high completion percentage, to what the defense is giving you, to what gets you good to favorable yards. a shotgun draw snap to the RB even if made at where we was at is risky business. A linebacker can shoot the gap, what happened with bradshaw could happen to Wilson by the defense taking better angles, a fumble can happen, now granted there are some positive outcomes. I just don't like that play at all.

giantsforce

10-30-2012, 11:49 AM

3rd and 2 Shotgun snap to bradshaw for a 1 yard loss I believe. This is why!Come on guys! This is Killdrive's imaginative and innovating play you are criticizing. How can you criticize the "genius" that gave us 2 SB's? Never mind. After a while is getting a little bit old that we are seeing the same crap over and over no matter what Coughlin says. They have not addressed any of the play calling because the same calls are made over and over. Killdrive is so predictable that's why we cannot score. It is inexcusable with the weapons we have, not to be able to score from inside the 20. We were 1 out of 5 inside the 20 in the Dallas game.

giantsforce

10-30-2012, 11:54 AM

Bradshaw, unfortunately, is too slow to get to the outside but Wilson isn't. Had a faster running back, like Wilson, gotten a first down, what would we be saying about the play call?Bingo! That's how we got our only Offensive TD! Brown running on the left outside! When is Killdrive going to understand this? How about Coughlin?

born blue

10-30-2012, 11:57 AM

I'm no OC, but there are a few things I think they could try given the ineptitude in the green zone so far this season:

1. Put Ramses on the field. I know Ramses as a green zone threat is not a new idea, but maybe it's time to actually try it. Obviously he is a tall target for a fade route, but he is also a big body for blocking if we ever wanted to try a WR screen to Cruz with him and Nicks blocking (ala Santana Moss two weeks ago).

2. Motion Bennett out wide and see what the D does. If a LB/S goes with him, then the box is less cluttered for Bradshaw/Wilson. If a DB picks him up, throw it up to him with serious size advantage.

3. Leak Hynoski out of the backfield. He can catch and runs hard once he has the ball. With so many big play guys, he could get lost and walk in for a score.

I don't know...I trust Gilbride and am obviously not a OC, but trying some new things at this point is probably worth a shot

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 12:16 PM

To be honest with you Roan, I would still call the play a stupid call. You call what has a high completion percentage, to what the defense is giving you, to what gets you good to favorable yards. a shotgun draw snap to the RB even if made at where we was at is risky business. A linebacker can shoot the gap, what happened with bradshaw could happen to Wilson by the defense taking better angles, a fumble can happen, now granted there are some positive outcomes. I just don't like that play at all.

I keep hearing "we're not imaginative", "too predictable" and that play was both imaginative and not predictable. It wasn't executed.

It's very easy for us to talk about failed plays after the fact, clearly We would have done something else. But these guys actually have percentages on the success of plays and sometimes they just don't work out.

A lot of stuff went wrong in the Cowboys' game, no question. We came out with a win and hopefully a lesson.

rainierjef

10-30-2012, 12:32 PM

But these guys actually have percentages on the success of plays and sometimes they just don't work out.
Okay fair enough, I hope a lesson is learned as well.
My only question to you is, how does he not see the percentage of success on a shotgun draw snap to the running back is not good? he runs it a lot and its one of those plays that's just doesn't work.

giantsforce

10-30-2012, 12:35 PM

I keep hearing "we're not imaginative", "too predictable" and that play was both imaginative and not predictable. It wasn't executed.

It's very easy for us to talk about failed plays after the fact, clearly We would have done something else. But these guys actually have percentages on the success of plays and sometimes they just don't work out.

A lot of stuff went wrong in the Cowboys' game, no question. We came out with a win and hopefully a lesson.It is not only the Cowboys game that stuff went wrong . Stuff go wrong consistently with the Giants offense inside the opponents 20. Here are the facts: we are close to the bottom in the NFL in scoring inside the opponents 20. Somehow the Giant's coaching staff must have the wrong calculation for their percentage of success of their plays.

RagTime Blue

10-30-2012, 12:40 PM

Maybe it's because of Tynes' reliability, but It's almost like they're playing to just NOT turn the ball over. Which is important, but generally-speaking, you need to score touchdowns to win games.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 12:45 PM

Okay fair enough, I hope a lesson is learned as well.
My only question to you is, how does he not see the percentage of success on a shotgun draw snap to the running back is not good? he runs it a lot and its one of those plays that's just doesn't work.

They were banking on surprise and it didn't work. If the yards needed were gained we'd be saying great call. It was poor execution and you can't predict that. As for Bradshaw, I saw Brown and Wilson getting snaps early on against the Cowboys. That is not normal and whether they are working them in fast enough or not I don't know. Certainly not fast enough for me, but I know I don't know what they know so I defer.

I prefer to look forward to the Steelers who will certainly present a significant challenge. If the running game isn't any better than it was against the Cowboys, it's going to be another digitalis day.

nycisgreat

10-30-2012, 01:06 PM

Does this bother anyone else? It almost seems contradictory, you've been addressing red zone issues but won't change your game plan when it's not working..

It sure does. Our redzone offense hasn't been good since 2008. I think this is a direct result of poor run game. We barely move the ball on the ground in the red zone.

TheAnalyst

10-30-2012, 01:11 PM

I love the WR bubble screens that never work. Why not run a slant? Oh, because it isn't in the playbook.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 01:11 PM

I feel like when we lose like 6 games in a row, Gilbride and company say "OH, I GOT IT NOW!" and change the game plan then. I do NOT want that to happen. These second half collapses need to end, and I think they will.

Do you think personnel plays any part in exactly what else we can do?

Rudy

10-30-2012, 01:18 PM

Do you think personnel plays any part in exactly what else we can do?They play a huge part.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 01:23 PM

They play a huge part.

And if we don't have the type of personnel to make a certain change?

Rudy

10-30-2012, 01:24 PM

And if we don't have the type of personnel to make a certain change? The thing is, we have the right personnel but they are conservative. Coughlin said "we've addressed it forever" but it seems to be getting a lot worse..

Do I think it will continue? I don't. We are too smart, and too talented, but something definitely has to be done.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 01:36 PM

The thing is, we have the right personnel but they are conservative. Coughlin said "we've addressed it forever" but it seems to be getting a lot worse..

Do I think it will continue? I don't. We are too smart, and too talented, but something definitely has to be done.

I guess my point is we don't have a clue about what adjustments they make as we can't hear or see what's happening on the sidelines. We do know that a few weeks ago Gilbride drew up a play on the sideline based on what eh saw the defense doing, showed it to Eli who thought they could execute it, called the play and it worked.

We base all of our comments on what we see, which is natural. I refuse to believe we have a bunch of *******s coaching this team.

Rudy

10-30-2012, 01:40 PM

I guess my point is we don't have a clue about what adjustments they make as we can't hear or see what's happening on the sidelines. We do know that a few weeks ago Gilbride drew up a play on the sideline based on what eh saw the defense doing, showed it to Eli who thought they could execute it, called the play and it worked.

We base all of our comments on what we see, which is natural. I refuse to believe we have a bunch of *******s coaching this team.I wasn't saying that at all. We have elite coaches, and I wouldn't fire any of them. But they need to realize when to adjust to the opposing teams game plan on a consistent basis.

BParcells777

10-30-2012, 01:42 PM

If Brown runs every he comes in he is going to average less than 3 yds per carry

Bradshaw is really begining to hold us back..........bench him.......save him for the playoffs

giantsforce

10-30-2012, 01:49 PM

And if we don't have the type of personnel to make a certain change?The problem is we do have the personnel but it is sitting, warming and polishing the bench, while Coughlin and his staff are "addressing" the issue. If by "addressing" means doing the same thing and expecting different results, then I guess they are "addressing" it. Oh, yeah, Wlison is not NFL "ready", Brown only scores TD's in the red zone but we somehow keep giving it to Bradshaw. The O line plays better with Diehl out, Let's put him in. We call some great plays within the 20s but once inside, let's get brain farts. It is coaching problem as it is execution. Both have to be looked at seriously but so far the HC is concetrating only on one.

giantsforce

10-30-2012, 01:50 PM

I wasn't saying that at all. We have elite coaches, and I wouldn't fire any of them. But they need to realize when to adjust to the opposing teams game plan on a consistent basis.so how can they be "elite" if they cannot adjust? Because certainly, we have not seen the Giants adjusting at all come game time.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 01:50 PM

I wasn't saying that at all. We have elite coaches, and I wouldn't fire any of them. But they need to realize when to adjust to the opposing teams game plan on a consistent basis.

There are enough folks on here who blame the coaching staff for everything from global warming to diaper rash. Consistency has eluded this team for years and I don't like it any more than anyone else. Eli is not consistent, Cruz is not consistent, Bennett is not consistent, Bradshaw is not consistent, etc., but look at their numbers is what we say. Truth is, those numbers don't mean much if we aren't winning games.

We're 6 - 2, 2 - 2 in the Division with everyone else at 3 - 4 and 3 - 5. When we came into the season, we had the toughest schedule in the NFL. We are still playing all of those teams. For every offensive play we draw up there is someone drawing up a play to stop us. Sometimes we win, sometimes they win those battles.

If we win 5 of the remaining 8 games, we should win the Division. Can we do it, of course. Will we do it, stand by for more roller coaster rides.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 01:54 PM

If Brown runs every he comes in he is going to average less than 3 yds per carry

Bradshaw is really begining to hold us back..........bench him.......save him for the playoffs

Saving Bradshaw for the playoffs is not the answer. Using Brown for more snaps on more series is the answer so we can get to the playoffs. I used to think it was more the OLine but I'm starting to think it's Bradshaw more than those guys. When I watch Bradshaw run and then watch Brown run I can clearly see the difference.

steviebrownyo

10-30-2012, 01:57 PM

Brown is a damn good runner i think he needs carries. But i disagree when you say its "more bradshaw than the oline". I think its much more the line. If we were creating big holes bradshaw would be gaining lots of yards. Since we're not, maybe it is time to get brown more involved because i think he does more with less push. But if were winning the matchup on the line, bradshaw has the ability to get more than brown.

Diamondring

10-30-2012, 01:59 PM

I make a post about our performance and it seems like around here it doesn't help in winning. Well Coughlin knows there is a problem. I think what the Giants need to do is make plays that will hesitate the defense. Target the defense weak points or make the strong points weak.

IamGiantsfan

10-30-2012, 02:38 PM

How much of what you posted is a TC quote?
not sure if this has been posted, but quotation marks have been invented and where used in that quote from the article

BParcells777

10-30-2012, 02:42 PM

Brown is a damn good runner i think he needs carries. But i disagree when you say its "more bradshaw than the oline". I think its much more the line. If we were creating big holes bradshaw would be gaining lots of yards. Since we're not, maybe it is time to get brown more involved because i think he does more with less push. But if were winning the matchup on the line, bradshaw has the ability to get more than brown.

You need a gigantic hole for Bradshaw to find his way to the secondary.......with Brown you just need a crease........he is strong enough to blow by the 1st tackler, and much more elusive than Bradshaw......who pretty much run in one vector.........if you insistupon Bradshaw then for Goodness sakes throw him a few good screens..........real screens not those silly bubble screens

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 02:59 PM

Brown is a damn good runner i think he needs carries. But i disagree when you say its "more bradshaw than the oline". I think its much more the line. If we were creating big holes bradshaw would be gaining lots of yards. Since we're not, maybe it is time to get brown more involved because i think he does more with less push. But if were winning the matchup on the line, bradshaw has the ability to get more than brown.

Bradshaw will not wait for the OLine to create holes, he runs into his linemen or tries to go where there are no blockers. Brown does wait for those fractions of a second it takes to let the linemen do their jobs. I haven't always thought Bradshaw was the problem but I am leaning that way now.

GFiP

10-30-2012, 03:10 PM

Gilbride is awful, the talent on our offense bails him out all the time.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 03:19 PM

Gilbride is awful, the talent on our offense bails him out all the time.

Except when they don't

TextureDj

10-30-2012, 03:39 PM

How much of what you posted is a TC quote?The first three lines, I had to play memory with the article to sort it out. You should wrap those girst three lines in quote tage for him Ro.

GiantRoc

10-30-2012, 03:57 PM

I think we have too complicated an offense in the redzone. There are too many reads for everyone to make in unison. There just isnt the room down there to make adjustments on the fly. Defenses know that about our team and do what they can to disguise the defense. We have a lot of talent. Maybe we need to just line up and run the damn play! 2 plays. 1 run, 1 pass. Do the best you can to determine the D scheme and run 1 or the other. Maybe just try that. It really can't turn out too much worse than it already is.

I also agree about the Tynes angle. I think TC is so afraid of turnovers, it may limit our plays. Maybe do to a lack of trust in the D performance so far this year.

One last thing., and its a big one. I think Eli has trouble in the redzone. I think the lack of room, bothers him with his calls. No flys or seam routes to split the D. He has missed some open plays here and there. It may just be that the small field doesnt fit his eye. It would be fun to see us in the top half of redzone O for a change. We'd see a few blowouts if we did.

pino

10-30-2012, 03:59 PM

Hooray! a terrible play that never works but we keep doing it! woo!

NEVER works!

TextureDj

10-30-2012, 04:03 PM

They were banking on surprise and it didn't work. If the yards needed were gained we'd be saying great call. It was poor execution and you can't predict that. As for Bradshaw, I saw Brown and Wilson getting snaps early on against the Cowboys. That is not normal and whether they are working them in fast enough or not I don't know. Certainly not fast enough for me, but I know I don't know what they know so I defer.

I prefer to look forward to the Steelers who will certainly present a significant challenge. If the running game isn't any better than it was against the Cowboys, it's going to be another digitalis day.Y

Okay, you must have done this to me before because Digitalis on google is full of darkened links that I have already clicked.

What does this phrase mean nad where does it come from? Does it mean the whole team is going to be tripping like angel trumpets?

Me no understand.

Drez

10-30-2012, 04:05 PM

I love the WR bubble screens that never work. Why not run a slant? Oh, because it isn't in the playbook.
We run very few WR screens.

Drez

10-30-2012, 04:07 PM

Okay, you must have done this to me before because Digitalis on google is full of darkened links that I have already clicked.

What does this phrase mean nad where does it come from? Does it mean the whole team is going to be tripping like angel trumpets?

Me no understand.
Digitalis is a heart med... He means it'll be another heart attack type game.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 04:20 PM

Okay, you must have done this to me before because Digitalis on google is full of darkened links that I have already clicked.

What does this phrase mean nad where does it come from? Does it mean the whole team is going to be tripping like angel trumpets?

Me no understand.

LOL Digitalis is heart medication

BillTheGreek

10-30-2012, 04:54 PM

Come on guys! This is Killdrive's imaginative and innovating play you are criticizing. How can you criticize the "genius" that gave us 2 SB's? Never mind. After a while is getting a little bit old that we are seeing the same crap over and over no matter what Coughlin says. They have not addressed any of the play calling because the same calls are made over and over. Killdrive is so predictable that's why we cannot score. It is inexcusable with the weapons we have, not to be able to score from inside the 20. We were 1 out of 5 inside the 20 in the Dallas game.
So Predictable !
I Think You Got It !

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 04:57 PM

not sure if this has been posted, but quotation marks have been invented and where used in that quote from the article

Yes, I'm well aware of what quotation marks are designed for, but I was asking for a different reason.

JesseJames

10-30-2012, 05:12 PM

Does this bother anyone else? It almost seems contradictory, you've been addressing red zone issues but won't change your game plan when it's not working.. yes it bothers me because IMO one of the big problems we have with our redzone issues is a lack of imagination with the playcalling, its always the same and defenses know exactly whats coming which makes their job real easy

stormblue

10-30-2012, 05:19 PM

I think we have too complicated an offense in the redzone. There are too many reads for everyone to make in unison. There just isnt the room down there to make adjustments on the fly. Defenses know that about our team and do what they can to disguise the defense. We have a lot of talent. Maybe we need to just line up and run the damn play! 2 plays. 1 run, 1 pass. Do the best you can to determine the D scheme and run 1 or the other. Maybe just try that. It really can't turn out too much worse than it already is.

I also agree about the Tynes angle. I think TC is so afraid of turnovers, it may limit our plays. Maybe do to a lack of trust in the D performance so far this year.

One last thing., and its a big one. I think Eli has trouble in the redzone. I think the lack of room, bothers him with his calls. No flys or seam routes to split the D. He has missed some open plays here and there. It may just be that the small field doesnt fit his eye. It would be fun to see us in the top half of redzone O for a change. We'd see a few blowouts if we did.

if i had said that about Eli i'd have 4 bullet holes and nine knife wounds already.

nice.

CowboysSuck

10-30-2012, 05:20 PM

This is where things get really complicated. It's both the play calling and the execution. Gilbride is backwards. If it's 3rd and short we throw a 50 yard pass, most likely incomplete because it's a stupid play call. When it's like 2nd and 25 we run the ball then we lose yardage, so now we HAVE to throw it (which is predictable) and then it's incomplete and there's our 3 and out.

We can't execute because our play calling is too predictable.

How often are we in 2nd and 25? What?? Does any team in the NFL have a set of plays for 2nd and 25?

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 05:21 PM

yes it bothers me because IMO one of the big problems we have with our redzone issues is a lack of imagination with the playcalling, its always the same and defenses know exactly whats coming which makes their job real easy

I remember watching OJ Anderson inside the 20, before it was known as the red zone. He'd come trotting onto the field and EVERYONE in the building knew what was coming. And far more often than not, he went straight ahead for 6. That is what we are lacking.

stormblue

10-30-2012, 05:23 PM

Except when they don't

ha-ha , i gotta say 'nokeFan ; you are a damn good sarcasmaster for a forum mod !!

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 05:28 PM

ha-ha , i gotta say 'nokeFan ; you are a damn good sarcasmaster for a forum mod !!

I'm still human, most of the time

JesseJames

10-30-2012, 05:30 PM

I remember watching OJ Anderson inside the 20, before it was known as the red zone. He'd come trotting onto the field and EVERYONE in the building knew what was coming. And far more often than not, he went straight ahead for 6. That is what we are lacking.
I know it always comes down to execution but when you aren't getting that execution a little imagination in playcalling might help

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 05:35 PM

How often are we in 2nd and 25? What?? Does any team in the NFL have a set of plays for 2nd and 25?

Yes, it's called punt in 2 :cool:

stormblue

10-30-2012, 05:36 PM

I remember watching OJ Anderson inside the 20, before it was known as the red zone. He'd come trotting onto the field and EVERYONE in the building knew what was coming. And far more often than not, he went straight ahead for 6. That is what we are lacking.

I remember watching OJ Anderson inside the 20, before it was known as the red zone. He'd come trotting onto the field and EVERYONE in the building knew what was coming. And far more often than not, he went straight ahead for 6. That is what we are lacking.

We could possibly have that again if they gave Brown more carries. How can Brown or Wilson get into a grove if they are in for one play and out for several more? Bradshaw is simply not an every down back, no matter how anyone tries to portray that. Feed the ball to Brown on consecutive series and this run game can really take off.

Bradshaw likes to shuffle around too much in the backfield. This is not being made up. He's not a patient runner. Again, I love his fire, but we need to run the ball the way we did when we had earth, wind & fire. I know Coughlin likes him and trust's him, but the guy is also a fumbler. Every time he makes contact with a defender I'm holding my breath.

They were banking on surprise and it didn't work. If the yards needed were gained we'd be saying great call. It was poor execution and you can't predict that. As for Bradshaw, I saw Brown and Wilson getting snaps early on against the Cowboys. That is not normal and whether they are working them in fast enough or not I don't know. Certainly not fast enough for me, but I know I don't know what they know so I defer.

I prefer to look forward to the Steelers who will certainly present a significant challenge. If the running game isn't any better than it was against the Cowboys, it's going to be another digitalis day.

I can prescribe you some Lanoxin, less side effects at smaller dosages :)

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 07:55 PM

I can prescribe you some Lanoxin, less side effects at smaller dosages :)

That would probably be cheaper than having the rescue squad park in my driveway for 3 hours

TextureDj

10-30-2012, 08:01 PM

LOL Digitalis is heart medicationThank you both for the explanation.

TextureDj

10-30-2012, 08:11 PM

We could possibly have that again if they gave Brown more carries. How can Brown or Wilson get into a grove if they are in for one play and out for several more? Bradshaw is simply not an every down back, no matter how anyone tries to portray that. Feed the ball to Brown on consecutive series and this run game can really take off.

Bradshaw likes to shuffle around too much in the backfield. This is not being made up. He's not a patient runner. Again, I love his fire, but we need to run the ball the way we did when we had earth, wind & fire. I know Coughlin likes him and trust's him, but the guy is also a fumbler. Every time he makes contact with a defender I'm holding my breath.

There is something to be said for continuity here. The line is the most interdependent unit on the team and short of Eli, no one works more closely with the OL than the HB. The more comfort and familiarity that can be developed the better they can perform. This would seem to include pass protection.

Of course, this could be precisely why TC is easing them in slowly, to allow that chemistry time to develop without any disasters.. I think he can ease them in a little quicker.........

I Bleed Blue 56

10-30-2012, 08:12 PM

Can gilbride put a screen pass andban occasional slant i mean why not it wont hurt.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 08:13 PM

There is something to be said for continuity here. The line is the most interdependent unit on the team and short of Eli, no one works more closely with the OL than the HB. The more comfort and familiarity that can be developed the better they can perform. This would seem to include pass protection.

Of course, this could be precisely why TC is easing them in slowly, to allow that chemistry time to develop without any disasters.. I think he can ease them in a little quicker.........

Makes sense

BParcells777

10-30-2012, 08:15 PM

There is something to be said for continuity here. The line is the most interdependent unit on the team and short of Eli, no one works more closely with the OL than the HB. The more comfort and familiarity that can be developed the better they can perform. This would seem to include pass protection.

Of course, this could be precisely why TC is easing them in slowly, to allow that chemistry time to develop without any disasters.. I think he can ease them in a little quicker.........

Coughlin talks endlessly about fixing things in the "Green" zone but to fix them he needs to go to a full length mirror and have a talk with the real source
of the problem.......himself and his OC........they should put in Brown when they get inside the GREEN zone and let Eli call his own plays

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 08:16 PM

Coughlin talks endlessly about fixing things in the "Green" zone but to fix them he needs to go to a full length mirror and have a talk with the real source
of the problem.......himself and his OC........they should put in Brown when they get inside the GREEN zone and let Eli call his own plays

Right, it can't possibly be poor execution

BParcells777

10-30-2012, 08:19 PM

no it cannot.........not when you have had 9 years of practice to fix the execution problems and come up totaly empty........what can I say, as Parcells famously you are what your record (results) say you are

Tom is no red Zone genius.

I remember when Parcells faced the same red zone delemna.....his solution was to line Joe Morris up 7-9 yds deep and have Phil toss it to him on a murderous student body left........they bludgeoned their way in

I do not see that play anywhere in our playbook

TextureDj

10-30-2012, 08:32 PM

no it cannot.........not when you have had 9 years of practice to fix the execution problems and come up totaly empty........what can I say, as Parcells famously you are what your record (results) say you are

Tom is no red Zone genius.

I remember when Parcells faced the same red zone delemna.....his solution was to line Joe Morris up 7-9 yds deep and have Phil toss it to him on a murderous student body left........they bludgeoned their way in

I do not see that play anywhere in our playbookWho would we run it with? We cant blow guys off the ball on 2nd down with our guys. This isnt a hard nosed team, should we trade in Eli and the WR for a big corn fed Oline?

stormblue

10-30-2012, 08:36 PM

There is something to be said for continuity here. The line is the most interdependent unit on the team and short of Eli, no one works more closely with the OL than the HB. The more comfort and familiarity that can be developed the better they can perform. This would seem to include pass protection.

Of course, this could be precisely why TC is easing them in slowly, to allow that chemistry time to develop without any disasters.. I think he can ease them in a little quicker.........

excelent theory on paper ....

but ....(drumroll please)

Bradshaw doesn't practice with them !!
so what's going on here is the lack of the comfort and
continuity you are referring to.

how's about we use the same tailback that practiced all week.
he could probably read a block better.
oh , by the way the line has changed since Bradshaw stopped practicing
Beaty to left tackle and Locklear moved to the other side to replace Diehl.
has Bradshaw ever even practiced with them ?

if you want continuity then you should use the guys who practiced.
if that is not the the case.....then why are we even practicing.
just come in tuesday , get your paycheck and airline ticket and we'll see you at terminal 33
saturday night.drive home safely , seatbelts and all that...
just a thought.

BParcells777

10-30-2012, 08:47 PM

Who would we run it with? We cant blow guys off the ball on 2nd down with our guys. This isnt a hard nosed team, should we trade in Eli and the WR for a big corn fed Oline?

1st run it.........then tell me you cannot run it

The little Bradshaw slip draw is horrific.........and they run it over and over and over and over ..........til I could shoot myself

Actually that play would be perfect for Bradshaw.........Bradshaw needs a deep running start to pick a hole and fire through it........the way they are using him he never builds any momentum

TextureDj

10-30-2012, 08:53 PM

excelent theory on paper ....

but ....(drumroll please)

Bradshaw doesn't practice with them !!
so what's going on here is the lack of the comfort and
continuity you are referring to.

how's about we use the same tailback that practiced all week.
he could probably read a block better.
oh , by the way the line has changed since Bradshaw stopped practicing
Beaty to left tackle and Locklear moved to the other side to replace Diehl.
has Bradshaw ever even practiced with them ?

if you want continuity then you should use the guys who practiced.
if that is not the the case.....then why are we even practicing.
just come in tuesday , get your paycheck and airline ticket and we'll see you at terminal 33
saturday night.drive home safely , seatbelts and all that...
just a thought.

A tthought I agree with wholeheartedly. Coughlin was *****ing a coupl weeks back about Bradshaw not being able to practice again and I think this is why.

Cant explain why he would lean more heavily on the practiced back though. Just feel there has to be something we are not privy to.

RoanokeFan

10-30-2012, 09:05 PM

A tthought I agree with wholeheartedly. Coughlin was *****ing a coupl weeks back about Bradshaw not being able to practice again and I think this is why.

Cant explain why he would lean more heavily on the practiced back though. Just feel there has to be something we are not privy to.

I think they still are concerned about making the blocking reads. The fact that both Brown and Wilson got snaps early in the Cowboys game signals there must be some improvement for both.

GiantRoc

10-30-2012, 09:27 PM

if i had said that about Eli i'd have 4 bullet holes and nine knife wounds already.

nice.

I expected to get my a** handed to me on that. Thank you for not taking that the wrong way. I just think if we give everyone less to worry about, they can concentrate on execution. I firmly believe we have the talent to make plays in the red zone, without making it so complicated.

GentleGiant

10-30-2012, 09:27 PM

no it cannot.........not when you have had 9 years of practice to fix the execution problems and come up totaly empty........what can I say, as Parcells famously you are what your record (results) say you are

Tom is no red Zone genius.

I remember when Parcells faced the same red zone delemna.....his solution was to line Joe Morris up 7-9 yds deep and have Phil toss it to him on a murderous student body left........they bludgeoned their way in

I do not see that play anywhere in our playbook

Our record is 6-2 so you just contradicted yourself.

Your name is parcells. You won't shut up about him. Fanboy much?

BParcells777

10-30-2012, 09:49 PM

Our record is 6-2 so you just contradicted yourself.

Your name is parcells. You won't shut up about him. Fanboy much?

our record is 6-2 in a 16 game season with a HC and QB who have made a habit of losing like a drunken vegas crap shooter in Nov/Dec.......then once every 5 years pulling out of the nose dive..........I want TOTAL DOMINATION........so shoot me

stormblue

10-30-2012, 09:57 PM

I expected to get my a** handed to me on that. Thank you for not taking that the wrong way. I just think if we give everyone less to worry about, they can concentrate on execution. I firmly believe we have the talent to make plays in the red zone, without making it so complicated.

its all good ,90% of the people on here are good natured giants fans that come in with
their varied opinions on the players and coaches.
there are lots Eli homers and lots of Eli haters (way less than there used to be)
same thing with the coaching staff.....when it gets ugly or starts going south somebody
will chime in with the guillotine.
but the truth is whether they are right or wrong or misinformed......they are all die hard Giant fans
they all agree on that much anyway.
now there are some in here that have about a bazillion posts
(they are the ones that have been posting since 1925 when Wellington bought the team)
of course there wasn't even an internet to post on until the mid 90's but who am i to burst their bubble.

some of 'em think they sit at the table at mount polo grounds and their football knowledge has been
granted them by divine right . do not let them bully you. you have a right to your opinion.
they are harmless ....just don't break their heart by telling them that the lightning bolts they shoot
out their arses stink as much as ours do.

as usual , i'm wandering off topic.....

i was just tryin' to get ya hollered at.....all for fun and in good humor

as long as you're rooting big blue ,,,,,you are always right.

bearbryant

10-30-2012, 11:02 PM

A few things we can agree on: This team goes where Eli goes & we haven't had a running game since 2008. Eli has been off the last 2 games, accuracy is off, timing w/ WR's is off. So We settled for FG's and it nearly bit us in the butt. Watch, Eli returns to himself... "I Believe in Eli"!!! The TD's will start occurring. Tommy boy isn't going to change any time soon and either is his boy Kildrive so pray for Eli to return and everything will be beautiful or it might get more ugly than these last two Suindays. Go Giants.

Diamondring

10-30-2012, 11:44 PM

Our record is 6-2 so you just contradicted yourself.

Your name is parcells. You won't shut up about him. Fanboy much?He is better of than some of the posters I talked to think that performance means nothing and you can win all of the time playing bad like the Giants did. Look at the almost td Dallas had, you can't have that.

Diamondring

10-30-2012, 11:46 PM

our record is 6-2 in a 16 game season with a HC and QB who have made a habit of losing like a drunken vegas crap shooter in Nov/Dec.......then once every 5 years pulling out of the nose dive..........I want TOTAL DOMINATION........so shoot meAnd you should get it. Anybody who thinks scoring a lot on your opponent is not right gots to like losing.

mike kennedy

10-31-2012, 12:06 AM

Here is the answer from T.C....."We work it the same way, every week." Maybe they should work it differently this week! I can't really argue because the guy has given us 2 Super Bowls but ...........................

BlueSanta

10-31-2012, 12:19 AM

I understand the people who are upset with our red zone offense. I get that way myself. I will never understand why we take the TE out so much inside the 20.

But, in reading through this thread I just simply do not get the people who argue our offense is "too conservative" in general. Do people even pay attention? We lead the league in big plays. Conservative offenses do not make big plays. This isnt an anomoly either. We have always been a big play team in recent years. So what on earth are you talking about?

GiantX

10-31-2012, 04:00 AM

addressing? they need to FIX them now or else we will be in big trouble.

Captain Chaos

10-31-2012, 04:45 AM

Yawnnnnnnnnnnn...... They are inconsistant

TomCat_FIN

10-31-2012, 04:48 AM

What also doesn't help that they can't call bootlegs on Eli since he can't run. It would be nice to have that element of surprise in your back pocket too. Like Romo on his TD run from the 1. So defenses know we're either going to run the ball or Eli's going to navigate the end zone from the pocket and look for Cruz.

GameTime

10-31-2012, 08:12 AM

if you keep doing the same things over and over with the same undesirable results I think is considered..."insane" behavoir

TomCat_FIN

10-31-2012, 08:16 AM

if you keep doing the same things over and over with the same undesirable results I think is considered..."insane" behavoir

That's true.

I would give thre ball to Brown in the red zone. He seems to get it into the end zone from the <5 yd line.

JayMas9

10-31-2012, 08:16 AM

I'm more concerned with just the red zone passing game, we seem to be unable to break people open down there. But I have the utmost confidence in it getting fixed.

Rudy

10-31-2012, 08:20 AM

I understand the people who are upset with our red zone offense. I get that way myself. I will never understand why we take the TE out so much inside the 20.

But, in reading through this thread I just simply do not get the people who argue our offense is "too conservative" in general. Do people even pay attention? We lead the league in big plays. Conservative offenses do not make big plays. This isnt an anomoly either. We have always been a big play team in recent years. So what on earth are you talking about?Because once the big play is shut down, we have nothing, or we struggle. Teams are trying to stop the big play, and well some teams have. We have got to come up with a different game plan. The big play doesn't always work.

stormblue

10-31-2012, 09:12 AM

I'm more concerned with just the red zone passing game, we seem to be unable to break people open down there. But I have the utmost confidence in it getting fixed.

yup , this offense is loaded with slow developing option routes that need time and room.
you have neither when you are down there in that area.
so if they defend the corner end zone fade and back shoulder sideline out.....we got nothin.
same on 3rd down.we don't seem to have any of those west coast dink and dunk quickies to tight ends
or little 5 yard swing passes to the tailback. all we got are 25 yard option route or a tailback shotgun draw.
and it works for teams outside of our division.....cuz they are not used to stopping it..
but in your own division they have been there done that and bought the t-shirt.
we need to work on those quick hitters, you know , all that stuff the other team uses to march up and down the field on us.

RoanokeFan

10-31-2012, 09:47 AM

if you keep doing the same things over and over with the same undesirable results I think is considered..."insane" behavoir Time to change avatar :)

BParcells777

10-31-2012, 10:06 AM

We'll have to win with Defense because Coughlin and Gilbride have the imagination of a flea...........nothing will change EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

According to them, You know it not play calling, its not personnel......................IT"S EXECUTION .............Good Greif!!!!!

JesseJames

10-31-2012, 10:42 AM

anybody who watched SF game last week saw what they do with so many different looks and formations on offense that the Cardinals had no idea what was coming, so it wasn't just execution it was imagination on offense that killed the Cards and IMO thats what we need more of instead of the same old thing that all teams are ready for....

BillTheGreek

10-31-2012, 11:45 AM

I see a Lot of Frustration on this Thread. Which is understandable....We are half way Thuough the season, .........and Yes we are 6 & 2 .Better than being 4&4.. Now is the time to start to get Tougher ! Because we all know how things in the NFL will start to Heat Up.......I say we just have to go to the drawing boards, and come up with some Great plays, that are different, and try them out, we want to keep our Lead ! I'm L@@king for 12 & 2 ......{ We have to score TD's in the Red Zone! and get first downs on 3rd a & 1......At this stage of the game it's going to come back to BITE US if we don't ...I'm Sorry no excuses ......We have the Best Talent in the League, Lets use it. Even Tom Coughlin says It's our Achilles heel }

All said and done, Lets take care of the Steelers....POUND THEM !

BeatYale

10-31-2012, 12:12 PM

anybody who watched SF game last week saw what they do with so many different looks and formations on offense that the Cardinals had no idea what was coming, so it wasn't just execution it was imagination on offense that killed the Cards and IMO thats what we need more of instead of the same old thing that all teams are ready for....

When I watch other teams play I always feel as though they are better at creating match up problems for the defense than we are. And In the redzone they dial up plays that give their receivers a chance to make a play on the ball along the sideline or back of the endzone.

BillTheGreek

10-31-2012, 03:24 PM

anybody who watched SF game last week saw what they do with so many different looks and formations on offense that the Cardinals had no idea what was coming, so it wasn't just execution it was imagination on offense that killed the Cards and IMO thats what we need more of instead of the same old thing that all teams are ready for....

Your right. !!!! ...Their Ready for us, we all know what the next play is !....9 times out of 10, Don't you think the team we are playing, knows what the next play is going to be, also....Call it what you want.. We need some SURPRISE plays....Unique plays...Imagination .what ever....( To get that first down & score in the Red Zone ! ) .Is that asking for too much ?
And this has nothing to do with Talent OR Coaching, we have both ! Just need to Hone in on this situation for now !

bigblue58

10-31-2012, 04:16 PM

Does this bother anyone else? It almost seems contradictory, you've been addressing red zone issues but won't change your game plan when it's not working..

Agreed! Are the Giants aware that it's legal to try to go end around into the end zone, or do they think that they HAVE to run right into the pile for no gain???
What they have to do is STOP letting Eli throw passes inside the 20, because it's just a recipe for disaster!
Make a lineman an eligible receiver and let their biggest guy do a Refrigerator Perry into the end zone.
Anything man...just try something different because had they converted just 3 of those FG's into 6 instead, Dallas' 24 points would have just amounted to a comeback attempt that fell far short!!!

RoanokeFan

10-31-2012, 04:26 PM

Agreed! Are the Giants aware that it's legal to try to go end around into the end zone, or do they think that they HAVE to run right into the pile for no gain???
What they have to do is STOP letting Eli throw passes inside the 20, because it's just a recipe for disaster!
Make a lineman an eligible receiver and let their biggest guy do a Refrigerator Perry into the end zone.
Anything man...just try something different because had they converted just 3 of those FG's into 6 instead, Dallas' 24 points would have just amounted to a comeback attempt that fell far short!!!

I can't recall which game, but did you see Eli throw to Beatty in the end zone? What would you call the direct snap to Bradshaw last Sunday?

Die-Hard

10-31-2012, 04:33 PM

I can't recall which game, but did you see Eli throw to Beatty in the end zone? What would you call the direct snap to Bradshaw last Sunday?

Wasn't that the same play where Bradshaw was sitting all alone in the corner of the end zone, with no one near him for 6-8 yards? Eli threw it to Beatty cutting across the middle instead. Can't recall which game it was either. Maybe Cleveland?

RoanokeFan

10-31-2012, 04:35 PM

Wasn't that the same play where Bradshaw was sitting all alone in the corner of the end zone, with no one near him for 6-8 yards? Eli threw it to Beatty cutting across the middle instead. Can't recall which game it was either. Maybe Cleveland?

That's the game. My only point is they do TRY to be inventive, sometimes it just doesn't work

giantsforce

10-31-2012, 04:40 PM

if you keep doing the same things over and over with the same undesirable results I think is considered..."insane" behavoirNah, let's blame it on execution like some here insist. It is never the coaching staff and Killdrive and TC can do no wrong. They always call the perfect plays, just the damn players cannot execute. Like Fewell rushing 3 against 5 and expecting to get pressure on QB and dropping the LB's in to coverage means that JPP, Tuck and Osi did not execute. Or when we need 7 yards for the 1st down and they call a 2 yard pass and expect the receiver to gain the other five on his own. But we somehow keep winning so the homer blinders will stay on for now.

bigblue58

10-31-2012, 04:49 PM

I can't recall which game, but did you see Eli throw to Beatty in the end zone? What would you call the direct snap to Bradshaw last Sunday?

What would I call the pass to Beatty and the direct snap to Bradshaw?

UNSUCCESSFUL!!!!!!

And why was it unsuccessful?
Because Eli passed inside the 20 like i said he shouldn't and Bradshaw took the direct
snap and ran right into the pile for no gain!!!

RoanokeFan

10-31-2012, 04:51 PM

What would I call the pass to Beatty and the direct snap to Bradshaw?

UNSUCCESSFUL!!!!!!

That, my friend, is ALL execution.

Eliscruzzz

10-31-2012, 04:56 PM

What would I call the pass to Beatty and the direct snap to Bradshaw?

UNSUCCESSFUL!!!!!!

And why was it unsuccessful? Because Eli passed inside the 20 like i said he shouldn't and Bradshaw took the direct snap and ran right into the pile for no gain!!!

Thank you for making Points A and B for me!!!!If you go back and look at the play by play Eli didn't throw on 1st or 2nd down enough in the redzone imo. You can't leave your qb in 3rd and longs especially in the redzone.

Eliscruzzz

10-31-2012, 04:58 PM

That, my friend, is ALL execution.I'm with you RF about the execution but it has something to do with play calling for lack of redzone success don't you think?

Drez

10-31-2012, 05:02 PM

I'm with you RF about the execution but it has something to do with play calling for lack of redzone success don't you think?
Well, some it yes, but a lot of it is execution... For example, was it bad play calling or execution when Bennett dropped a pass that would have given us a 1st down on the 2?

Or the direct snap from above... Bradshaw ran right into the pile because the OL got no push. That isn't a bad play call, that's poor execution.

Drez

10-31-2012, 05:06 PM

If you go back and look at the play by play Eli didn't throw on 1st or 2nd down enough in the redzone imo. You can't leave your qb in 3rd and longs especially in the redzone.
Not necessarily putting you in with this group, but I've noticed that a lot of posters that ***** that we don't pass enough or run enough ***** whichever way it falls depending on the results (i.e. if we passed more and it was unsuccessful they will say we should have ran more and vice versa).

RoanokeFan

10-31-2012, 05:07 PM

I'm with you RF about the execution but it has something to do with play calling for lack of redzone success don't you think?

I do, yes, but until I am included in the inner circle and KNOW what plays Eli has at his disposal to call or audible to, I'm not going to second guess the professionals who have had one losing season and two Super Bowls since TC was hired.

TheEnigma

10-31-2012, 05:07 PM

It depends on the scenario whether you can blame the players for execution or the coordinator for the play he called/made/assigned whatever. I'd blame execution on a pass play to the outside when the receiver drops the ball because we've had great success passing outside the numbers. Now when we attempt to run to the same spot over and over with no success, the coordinator needs to make the adjustments to realize that the play isn't working and when to recognize that his personnel don't have the tools to make a particular play a positive most of the time.

Eliscruzzz

10-31-2012, 05:08 PM

Well, some it yes, but a lot of it is execution... For example, was it bad play calling or execution when Bennett dropped a pass that would have given us a 1st down on the 2?

Or the direct snap from above... Bradshaw ran right into the pile because the OL got no push. That isn't a bad play call, that's poor execution.No, I agree some is execution that was execution most def. but little things like running to the left of Dallas defense was working but we decided to go right and gain no yards sometimes twice in a row(I forgot who gave that stat). To me it's fair to say both is the problem and as a team they need to fix it.

Drez

10-31-2012, 05:08 PM

Agreed! Are the Giants aware that it's legal to try to go end around into the end zone, or do they think that they HAVE to run right into the pile for no gain???
What they have to do is STOP letting Eli throw passes inside the 20, because it's just a recipe for disaster!
Make a lineman an eligible receiver and let their biggest guy do a Refrigerator Perry into the end zone.
Anything man...just try something different because had they converted just 3 of those FG's into 6 instead, Dallas' 24 points would have just amounted to a comeback attempt that fell far short!!!
We don't run the ball well enough, consistently enough. At this point in time our odds are better with Eli slinging it.

Eliscruzzz

10-31-2012, 05:10 PM

I do, yes, but until I am included in the inner circle and KNOW what plays Eli has at his disposal to call or audible to, I'm not going to second guess the professionals who have had one losing season and two Super Bowls since TC was hired.fair enough....I was just asking.

Drez

10-31-2012, 05:13 PM

No, I agree some is execution that was execution most def. but little things like running to the left of Dallas defense was working but we decided to go right and gain no yards sometimes twice in a row(I forgot who gave that stat). To me it's fair to say both is the problem and as a team the need to fix it.
How was the defense aligned? Was the defense showing strength to our left? Did we overload on the right? I mean, there's more to saying it was a bad play call solely because the play didn't go well.

RoanokeFan

10-31-2012, 05:14 PM

fair enough....I was just asking.

That's what we do here. I will never think I know more than TC and the coaching staff or the players for that matter. I get just as upset as anyone when plays don't work. I don't have the need to blame anyone except maybe for the receiver who drops a pass or the runner who fumbles. The other stuff like play calling and gaps, etc. is way above my pay grade

Eliscruzzz

10-31-2012, 05:14 PM

Not necessarily putting you in with this group, but I've noticed that a lot of posters that ***** that we don't pass enough or run enough ***** whichever way it falls depending on the results (i.e. if we passed more and it was unsuccessful they will say we should have ran more and vice versa).ok I get you but the run was getting stuffed all day(not that the pass was working great all day either) I just think you got Eli and elite wr's you go with that. At that point in the game I'm pretty sure Dallas was expecting run.

Drez

10-31-2012, 05:14 PM

anybody who watched SF game last week saw what they do with so many different looks and formations on offense that the Cardinals had no idea what was coming, so it wasn't just execution it was imagination on offense that killed the Cards and IMO thats what we need more of instead of the same old thing that all teams are ready for....

SF uses a lot of different looks and formations because they are limited offensively and can't count on their personnel to straight up win their 1-on-1s.

TheEnigma

10-31-2012, 05:17 PM

Kenyon Coleman was just having his way with the right side of our Oline in the first quarter when we attempted to run the ball using Bennett and Locklear as the main blockers on those plays. There just comes a time when Eli/Gilbride needed to realize "this guy is eating us for lunch over there. Let's avoid the right side for a little bit".

Eliscruzzz

10-31-2012, 05:20 PM

How was the defense aligned? Was the defense showing strength to our left? Did we overload on the right? I mean, there's more to saying it was a bad play call solely because the play didn't go well.I really don't know but when you see a weakness in the defense I just think you exploit it until they stop it.but I get where you are coming from.

Eliscruzzz

10-31-2012, 05:21 PM

Kenyon Coleman was just having his way with the right side of our Oline in the first quarter when we attempted to run the ball using Bennett and Locklear as the main blockers on those plays. There just comes a time when Eli/Gilbride needed to realize "this guy is eating us for lunch over there. Let's avoid the right side for a little bit". Yes you were the one with that stats it was very interesting.. thanks for that.

Drez

10-31-2012, 06:52 PM

ok I get you but the run was getting stuffed all day(not that the pass was working great all day either) I just think you got Eli and elite wr's you go with that. At that point in the game I'm pretty sure Dallas was expecting run.
I get you. I know there was on drive later in the game (I think it was the one that got us our last FG), where we picked up a nice chunk of yardage on 2 runs, netting a first down. On that first, we ran again for no gain or maybe a yard. I thought right then would have been the perfect time to go play action. Instead, we ran again and only picked up a couple of yards which led to an obvious passing situation that we weren't able to convert on.

Eliscruzzz

10-31-2012, 07:31 PM

I get you. I know there was on drive later in the game (I think it was the one that got us our last FG), where we picked up a nice chunk of yardage on 2 runs, netting a first down. On that first, we ran again for no gain or maybe a yard. I thought right then would have been the perfect time to go play action. Instead, we ran again and only picked up a couple of yards which led to an obvious passing situation that we weren't able to convert on.I was thinking the same. That game was weird it seemed like we didn't use a whole lot of PA....probably cause the run was ineffective but it's not like the Giants abandoned it....so it seems like it still could've worked.

BParcells777

10-31-2012, 07:36 PM

to be installed in his office LOL

stormblue

10-31-2012, 07:38 PM

you gotta know that made my day.
thank you.

joemorrisforprez

10-31-2012, 10:15 PM

3rd and 2 Shotgun snap to bradshaw for a 1 yard loss I believe. This is why!

DING DING DING DING!!!!!

Call me nuts, but how about lining up Hynoski and Andre Brown on a 3rd and 1 ?????

joemorrisforprez

10-31-2012, 10:17 PM

What would I call the pass to Beatty and the direct snap to Bradshaw?

UNSUCCESSFUL!!!!!!

And why was it unsuccessful?
Because Eli passed inside the 20 like i said he shouldn't and Bradshaw took the direct
snap and ran right into the pile for no gain!!!

I guess they need to work on that play a little in practice.

Oh wait.....Bradshaw doesn't practice during the week.

Never mind.

rtr1105

10-31-2012, 11:46 PM

I'm sure it's been brought up in this thread but I'm too lazy to read the whole thing. Anyways, the we run the ball way too much in opponents' territory. We have a top tier QB and some of the best receivers in the game. Nothing smells more like settling for yet another field goal like two 2 yard runs right up the middle then the notorious shotgun draw on 3rd&6.

Cloud57

11-01-2012, 12:21 AM

I would like to see at least 4 TDs in the next game!

RagTime Blue

11-01-2012, 09:20 AM

I think the fact that Tynes is so "Automatic 3-pts" makes the Giants play to just not turn the ball over in the red zone.

Rudy

11-01-2012, 09:37 AM

so how can they be "elite" if they cannot adjust? Because certainly, we have not seen the Giants adjusting at all come game time. We have a problem of adjusting when our game plan is NOT working. When it is, everything is good. This isn't a knock on the coaches btw.

Rudy

11-01-2012, 09:40 AM

There are enough folks on here who blame the coaching staff for everything from global warming to diaper rash. Consistency has eluded this team for years and I don't like it any more than anyone else. Eli is not consistent, Cruz is not consistent, Bennett is not consistent, Bradshaw is not consistent, etc., but look at their numbers is what we say. Truth is, those numbers don't mean much if we aren't winning games.

We're 6 - 2, 2 - 2 in the Division with everyone else at 3 - 4 and 3 - 5. When we came into the season, we had the toughest schedule in the NFL. We are still playing all of those teams. For every offensive play we draw up there is someone drawing up a play to stop us. Sometimes we win, sometimes they win those battles.

If we win 5 of the remaining 8 games, we should win the Division. Can we do it, of course. Will we do it, stand by for more roller coaster rides.I understand that we can't win every game, I know we are 6-2. The point is, we are way too talented as a team to have a 44.44% red zone efficiency. That's pretty much what I'm saying. If it was one game I wouldn't sweat, it would just be one game. It's been multiple games and the red zone scoring percentage is steadily decreasing. I'm not knocking anyone it's just a concern moving foward which I think we can fix.

OX1

11-01-2012, 10:08 AM

This is where things get really complicated. It's both the play calling and the execution. Gilbride is backwards. If it's 3rd and short we throw a 50 yard pass, most likely incomplete because it's a stupid play call. When it's like 2nd and 25 we run the ball then we lose yardage, so now we HAVE to throw it (which is predictable) and then it's incomplete and there's our 3 and out.

We can't execute because our play calling is too predictable.

This is nothing new. when it was brought up several years ago, the "experts" all
said we have one of the most complex schemes in the nfl and there is no way it is vanella.
I mostly understand that read and react part of it and it does seem to work when
Eli and his recievers are on the same page. Problem is, the rest of the playbook
is straight up easy to figure out. Philly has had our number for years due to this.

I'm tired of hearing it is execution. If the players are not good enough to do the SAME
plays everyone knows are coming (and in the red zone they just haven't been),
then you have to mix it up, so when you go back to those plays they have a chance of working.

Either that or get better players, especially O-line. Until the O-line rules again (if ever)
the current plays will never work without throwing in some plays no one expects.
And yes, even those may not work if the O-line is not good enough, and it may not be.

.

BParcells777

11-01-2012, 11:50 AM

I understand that we can't win every game, I know we are 6-2. The point is, we are way too talented as a team to have a 44.44% red zone efficiency. That's pretty much what I'm saying. If it was one game I wouldn't sweat, it would just be one game. It's been multiple games and the red zone scoring percentage is steadily decreasing. I'm not knocking anyone it's just a concern moving foward which I think we can fix.

Welllllllllll we only have two plays in the red zone playbook.........Halfback draw to Bradshaw for no gain, and deep corner lollipop to Whoever for no catch

Occassionaly Coughlin awakens from his senility to put Andre Brown in for an almost sure TD

Rudy

11-01-2012, 12:09 PM

Welllllllllll we only have two plays in the red zone playbook.........Halfback draw to Bradshaw for no gain, and deep corner lollipop to Whoever for no catch

Occassionaly Coughlin awakens from his senility to put Andre Brown in for an almost sure TDWell I'm not blaming the coaches for anything because they know a lot more than I do, but certainly something needs to be done and I have faith they will get it done.

JimC

11-01-2012, 01:31 PM

I wasn't saying that at all. We have elite coaches, and I wouldn't fire any of them. But they need to realize when to adjust to the opposing teams game plan on a consistent basis.

This makes me crazy. On one hand you call our coaches ELITE while on the other hand you complain that they can not adjust to the other teams game plan, which I believe is a very BASIC coaching function. While perhaps not ELITE, I think our coaches are very very good. That said they are a HELL of a lot better than any one of us at coaching this team. Don't you think they see these deficiencies and are doing their best to address them????

Rudy

11-01-2012, 01:42 PM

This makes me crazy. On one hand you call our coaches ELITE while on the other hand you complain that they can not adjust to the other teams game plan, which I believe is a very BASIC coaching function. While perhaps not ELITE, I think our coaches are very very good. That said they are a HELL of a lot better than any one of us at coaching this team. Don't you think they see these deficiencies and are doing their best to address them???? Nope, they aren't doing anything to address them That's not what I said. We have elite, yes elite coaches they know more about this team and this game then I probably ever will. Now that we got that out the way, there is still a problem. I'm not even complaining, I'm just concerned because it's starting to become a downward trend. I've stated many many MANY times that I think we will get this problem corrected.