some people simply believe in a nothingness that ensues death - while this serves their purpose, it makes life seem empty and pointless to me - what, if there is nothing, are we trying to achieve then? what is the point of our quest for knowledge?

I am not trying to achieve anything regarding my "afterlife". Why would I? I live here and now, and everything I achieve I do enjoy now. If I achieve knowledge, I do it for my joy, for my curiosity. Every day is lived for this life, not for another. Everything which just helps me in an eventual aferlife is not worth doing it.

If you need a afterlife to make this life worthfull, than there are many religions telling you what you want to here. Satanist won't tell you such a thing, because they don't know.

About your explanation on why you think there is something like reincarnation: So basically you believe because people live in fear of death? What? Really, what? You believe something because it fits your needs? You are affraid of death and instead of dealing with it you just make up something? You just believe in something to transcent fear? Why do you not face the fact that you can't stand death and do something about it? Talk, think, do... no matter what. Everything is better than to decieve yourself.

Hail.

_________________________
If you ask a question, you should never be afraid to hear the answer!

Does anyone think that you can EITHTER live life to the fullest OR believe that death is not the end?Can't a person live life to the fullest, and at least keep an open mind in regards to what happens when they die?

Personally I think all the ideas of "heaven", "hell", and "reincarnation" are ridiculous, especially if taken literally and dissected.

I understand if people want to believe such things to comfort themselves. I however have no need of that, as I already have a heaven. At the same time, I would not subscribe to the idea that death is the end.

Nietzsche's Eternal Recurrence is not related to the idea of Reincarnation.

_________________________Live and Let Die."If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant."Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito MussoliniMY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

If I understand it correctly, matter has a limited number of possible combinations. Positing time as being infinite, in time, these combinations will recur over and over again. Similar to playing Yatzee. Keep rolling 6 dice over and over again, and similar patterns will be repeated, ad infinitum.

Reincarnation begs the idea of progress...not part of the recuring theme...theme.

Is that about it?

Edited by Roho_the_Rooster (02/04/0901:42 PM)Edit Reason: Had to change a recuring spelling error...again.

If I understand it correctly, matter has a limited number of possible combinations. Positing time as being infinite, in time, these combinations will recur over and over again. Similar to playing Yatzee. Keep rolling 6 dice over and over again, and similar patterns will be repeated, ad infinitum.

Reincarnation begs the idea of progress...not part of the recuring theme...theme.

Is that about it?

That is pretty much it, but Nietzsche also regarded Eternal Recurrence as a challenge and ultimatum of sorts; the superior type could be confronted with the prospect of reliving every aspect of life with all of its horrors, pain, suffering, and uncertainty, identically down to the last detail for eternity and still be able to say "yes" to life.

That was one respect in which he exalted the ancient Greeks; that they could embrace a tragic view of existence and still possess the fortitude to remain life-affirming.

This is in direct contrast to the major religions of the world that glorify suffering for its own sake and advocate withdrawal from the world.

_________________________Live and Let Die."If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant."Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito MussoliniMY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

The question of life-after-death is a fairly irrelevant one: a sort of philosophical escapism, if you will. As the future is completely uncertain, living well in the present is all I can truly assure myself of, as I should think any good Satanist ought to. If there were, by some apparently illogical circumstance, a life after this one, I would endeavor to live that one precisely as I live this one: wholly and with conviction for the present's sake. In the even further unlikely event that the Christian paradigm of existence were relatively accurate, and I found myself damned to Hell for not having given my soul to Jesus Christ for his salvation, I would still stand by such self-extolling autodeism as I practice today, just as they claim Lucifer did, for "To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell."

That is pretty much it, but Nietzsche also regarded Eternal Recurrence as a challenge and ultimatum of sorts; the superior type could be confronted with the prospect of reliving every aspect of life with all of its horrors, pain, suffering, and uncertainty, identically down to the last detail for eternity and still be able to say "yes" to life.

That was one respect in which he exalted the ancient Greeks; that they could embrace a tragic view of existence and still possess the fortitude to remain life-affirming.

This is in direct contrast to the major religions of the world that glorify suffering for its own sake and advocate withdrawal from the world.

Ah! The use of pain in developing the Ubermensch. In relation to this discussion, it is interesting, to me at least, that ancient Judaism actually had a view more consistent with Nietzsche's idea. There was no actual division of humans into physical and "spiritual". There was no seperate soul until religious peddlers needed a fake ailment to cure.

Then surely you've read the "Live After Death Through Fulfillment of the Ego" chapter in The Satanic Bible. You know, where LaVey points out the some of the fallacies and real motivations behind a belief in reincarnation?

Originally Posted By: LucifersBlood

I guess I was wondering more about the philosophy that states that we have one life. Is this more Christianity derived?

No, you can find plenty of "one life per person" views that predate Abrahamic monotheism, let alone exist outside of it.

Quote:

and what are your basic viewpoints as to when and where we're created,

I used to have some vauge concepts about reincarnation, though I never really took it very seriously. Indeed, I mostly used my concepts as a counter theory to those who tried to discuss it seriously with me in my university days...

For a bit of fun - my loosely defined theory (in a nutshell) was that for the most part when someone dies their 'soul' - being that of a member of the faceless herd - is rather weak and diluted to begin with and soon after death is recycled and reabsorbed back into a general morass of cosmic 'soul soup'. At some stage in an embryos gestational development, a trickle of this crap is drawn in by the new body (or something like that, you get the general idea) and on and on it goes ad nauseum... (Pointless yes, but in accordance with the general law that enegry cannot be destroyed, only transformed).

The exception was that those with a strength of will and forceful, confident personality were able to 'hold it together' long enough to make it into a new body with their basic personality more or less intact. It had nothing to do with being good or 'karma' - just a survival instinct that would see them inhabit and possess a forming human body that, from their limited dead perspective, seemed to offer reasonable conditions for another enjoyable life (i.e. good DNA, etc).

It was a fair bit more elaborate than that, with quite a few other deviations possible, but it worked for me. However, more importantly, when I wheeled it out it stopped the new agers in their tracks almost better than a .45 Magnum would! (the funniest thing was when they actually started to believe it - they had to figure out how to get a personality! Haha).

From a practical view point, even if my old tongue in cheek philosophy WAS true - it wouldn't interfere with my earthly indugences here and now. I'd cross that that bridge when I come to it, and find another body to play in.

P.S. I don't believe in this any more than I do the rabbit with the lollypop theory, which is certainly more colorful and enticing than getting callouses on the hands playing a freaking harp for all eternity... Gah!

"Everything we have acquired from science tells us that this is all there is."

Science doesn't tell that as a fact. It is a conclusion that many people draw based on certain evidence.

That is how science works--by drawing conclusions and creating theories based on facts logic, and evidence. What is best, is that all these are allowed to change and be modified based on new data. That is the modus operandi of science and many aspect of Satanism.

As someone, who follows this kind of process and holds the ideals of science, rational thought, doubt, and critical thinking to a very high esteem, it would be wrong for me to just say there is nothing after death, no question about it!To everything, there is always the possibility of change. I try to keep an open mind.

But lets be rational, it is very unlikely based on what we know, that there is an afterlife. It is also unlikely that Santa Claus, Peter Pan, Zeus, Shiva, Yahweh, Spaghetti monster, pink unicorns, gremlins, heaven, hell, flying teapots, and fairies in your garden, are real.

They're all great stories, and wonderful products of the imagination, but that's just what they are--stories. Tell them to your children to make their childhoods more interesting and memorable.

As for what goes on in your mind when you die, and what lies in the mysterious beyond, I maturely admit that I don't know.

It is nice to have some good mysteries in this world. It gives incentive for further inquiry and interesting discoveries. And of course no one can forget the great stories and movies!

By the way, research has shown that when a person is beheaded, there is still brain activity going on for some time. We can never be 100% sure, but what if you can see yourself without your head before you die?!