This is a discussion on how to play pocket aces when.... within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; how would you play pocket aces when you raise 5x BB and you get like 5 or 6 callers?
should i fold to any reraise?
should i

how would you play pocket aces when you raise 5x BB and you get like 5 or 6 callers?

should i fold to any reraise?
should i reraise an initial raiser?
when is it time to fold?

#2

13th November 2011, 11:23 PM

ph0n3_j4ck [222]

Poker at: CarbonPoker

Game: Holdem

Usually people don't call a raise that is that big pre-flop.
I'd say you should reraise anyone that tries to reraise you pre-flop.
As for reraising an initial raiser, it depends. Is the reraiser an aggressor? Can you make anymore money off of him?
It's time to fold when you see a scary board. Usually any pair on the board should scare you if there are too many players in the pot. However if you eliminate the players down, you should have the best hand.

#3

13th November 2011, 11:25 PM

Pascal-lf [3,161]

Online Poker at: Full Tilt

Game: Hold'em

depends

#4

13th November 2011, 11:37 PM

taaron [716]

Originally Posted by Pascal-lf

depends

+1 more information needed please. . .and lol

Usually people don't call a raise that is that big pre-flop.
I'd say you should reraise anyone that tries to reraise you pre-flop.
As for reraising an initial raiser, it depends. Is the reraiser an aggressor? Can you make anymore money off of him?
It's time to fold when you see a scary board. Usually any pair on the board should scare you if there are too many players in the pot. However if you eliminate the players down, you should have the best hand.

^lol. . .care to elaborate???

#5

13th November 2011, 11:41 PM

bgomez89 [3,050]

Online Poker at: pokerstars

Game: holdem

Do you mean postflop or pre?

#6

14th November 2011, 12:10 AM

Cafeman [3,200]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Originally Posted by blikbleek

how would you play pocket aces when you raise 5x BB and you get like 5 or 6 callers?

Look to your left. Look to your right. Put on your shades. Shove it over on those bitches and watch them crumble.

#7

14th November 2011, 3:32 AM

pcgnome [1,769]

Online Poker at: Carbon

Game: holdem

re: Poker & how to play pocket aces when....

Where are you seated at the table?
How many BB's do you have?
How many BB's do the caller's have?
etc. not enough info really... but what i would probably do is re-raise, call any 4-bet, and wait for the flop. If another ace shows up, then I would go all in.

#8

14th November 2011, 4:03 AM

mrmonkey [680]

Originally Posted by Cafeman31

Look to your left. Look to your right. Put on your shades. Shove it over on those bitches and watch them crumble.

I think he means postflop though. It's ambiguous the way it's worded, but if they're all just calling his raise then I'm guessing a flop is on its way.

In which case, playing your aces postflop in a 6-way pot will depend a lot on:

Was I not right to check until the river? I might have bet more. I dunno.
If I were in his spot I would have folded pocket 9's w/ 2 overcards on the board after the flop tho. In the end he came in 4th, and I came in 2nd.

#12

14th November 2011, 5:06 PM

mrmonkey [680]

I'm not really sure what you are trying to illustrate with the hand you posted.

In any case, some thoughts on your hand:

1. It's a tourney, the original post and the game is talking about cash ring

2. Your preflop raise size looks good

3. The flop check is probably fine given the texture of the board, especially if villain is prone to cbetting or aggression -- but I'm most definitely leading the turn with a 3/4 pot bet

4. As played, I'm betting the river hard, probably pot-size or maybe just shoving... If villain is bad enough to call off 20% of his stack in this spot with middle pair, he's probably bad enough to also call off his whole stack with it as well.

5. You are too focused on results. Even your signature, if not sarcastic, shows how results-oriented you are being.

#13

14th November 2011, 6:23 PM

blikbleek [127]

Online Poker at: BorgataPoker

heres how the hand went from what i remember:
$.2-$.4 cent NL cash

im second to act i raise to .20
a few folds and 5 callers (there was 9 players)
about 2 callers have me covered the rest have about equal stack

flop comes 5-6-7 rainbow
i raise like 1/2 pot, and now i got a little more than half my stack in
all fold and 1 guy shoves. i knew right there some donk hit 2 pair and possibly a straight, but i got equity now, so i call

villain turns over 3-4s (clubs), which made me want to vomit that someone played this, and that what was likely the worst hand ended up winning

#14

14th November 2011, 6:36 PM

pcgnome [1,769]

Poker at: Carbon

Game: holdem

re: Poker & how to play pocket aces when....

I thought this thread was kind-of useless without somebody posting a hand.
I am still wondering how anybody could possibly be stupid enough to call a 3/4 pot bet on the turn w/2 over-cards already on the board. That could be a leak.
What do you specifically mean by "results oriented"?
BTW my signature is just a joke

#15

14th November 2011, 6:53 PM

pcgnome [1,769]

Online Poker at: Carbon

Game: holdem

Originally Posted by blikbleek

heres how the hand went from what i remember:
$.2-$.4 cent NL cash

im second to act i raise to .20
a few folds and 5 callers (there was 9 players)
about 2 callers have me covered the rest have about equal stack

flop comes 5-6-7 rainbow
i raise like 1/2 pot, and now i got a little more than half my stack in
all fold and 1 guy shoves. i knew right there some donk hit 2 pair and possibly a straight, but i got equity now, so i call

villain turns over 3-4s (clubs), which made me want to vomit that someone played this, and that what was likely the worst hand ended up winning

I know that it's hard to fold pocket aces, but there were at least 9 hands that could beat you after the flop. Don't be a calling station.

#16

14th November 2011, 7:35 PM

taaron [716]

Originally Posted by blikbleek

heres how the hand went from what i remember:
$.2-$.4 cent NL cash

im second to act i raise to .20
a few folds and 5 callers (there was 9 players)
about 2 callers have me covered the rest have about equal stack

flop comes 5-6-7 rainbow
i raise like 1/2 pot, and now i got a little more than half my stack in
all fold and 1 guy shoves. i knew right there some donk hit 2 pair and possibly a straight, but i got equity now, so i call

villain turns over 3-4s (clubs), which made me want to vomit that someone played this, and that what was likely the worst hand ended up winning

I understand having pp's cracked, but have no knowledge of whether or not the villain is a bad player, I do know that this is merging range, and can be super profitable in the right spots, like here.
I'm not saying that calling a x5bb raise w/ low SC's was solid, but it worked, alot of the best players know to play merged hands facing a decent preflop raise (5xbb), because based on a particular ppl's table image a 5xbb raise is usually a very strong hand and often JJ+>
a merged hand allows someone to out flop PP's a good percentage of the time, if not its a very easy fold decision, flop or turn.

make a note that: villain plays low SC's, and will call strong preflop rasies. alot to learn imo from the frustrating beats. . .all the best!

#17

14th November 2011, 8:48 PM

KerouacsDog [9,418]

Online Poker at: Unibet/FT/PS

Game: limit holdem

Originally Posted by blikbleek

heres how the hand went from what i remember:
$.2-$.4 cent NL cash

im second to act i raise to .20
a few folds and 5 callers (there was 9 players)
about 2 callers have me covered the rest have about equal stack

flop comes 5-6-7 rainbow
i raise like 1/2 pot, and now i got a little more than half my stack in
all fold and 1 guy shoves. i knew right there some donk hit 2 pair and possibly a straight, but i got equity now, so i call

villain turns over 3-4s (clubs), which made me want to vomit that someone played this, and that what was likely the worst hand ended up winning

I play 34s if Im last to act after that action, and I feel like gambling. if i hit the flop hard I win, if i dont I fold. if someone has 89 so be it. first time ive seen this thread.

#18

14th November 2011, 10:41 PM

Poker Orifice [17,227]

Game: NLHE

Originally Posted by taaron

I understand having pp's cracked, but have no knowledge of whether or not the villain is a bad player, I do know that this is merging range, and can be super profitable in the right spots, like here.
I'm not saying that calling a x5bb raise w/ low SC's was solid, but it worked, alot of the best players know to play merged hands facing a decent preflop raise (5xbb), because based on a particular ppl's table image a 5xbb raise is usually a very strong hand and often JJ+>
a merged hand allows someone to out flop PP's a good percentage of the time, if not its a very easy fold decision, flop or turn.

make a note that: villain plays low SC's, and will call strong preflop rasies. alot to learn imo from the frustrating beats. . .all the best!

How is it that you have half your stack in with a 1/2 pot bet on the flop?

765 I would just b/f or c/f.

#20

14th November 2011, 11:49 PM

Trimming1 [417]

Poker at: Full tilt

Game: I play all

Too small of a raise..

Originally Posted by blikbleek

heres how the hand went from what i remember:
$.2-$.4 cent NL cash

im second to act i raise to .20
a few folds and 5 callers (there was 9 players)
about 2 callers have me covered the rest have about equal stack

flop comes 5-6-7 rainbow
i raise like 1/2 pot, and now i got a little more than half my stack in
all fold and 1 guy shoves. i knew right there some donk hit 2 pair and possibly a straight, but i got equity now, so i call

villain turns over 3-4s (clubs), which made me want to vomit that someone played this, and that what was likely the worst hand ended up winning

I would have raised to like .35cents to keep an idiot like that from wanting to call. He probably was third or fourth to act and had implied odds to see the flop. We all have made decisions at one point or another based on implied odds; That was a straight gamble on his part but the pot odds at four or five to one gives him the technical "right price " to see the flop. Hell I once called a pre-flop raise when I was in the big blind with 7 2 suited because 6 ppl were already in the pot at a ten person table. LOL flopped two pair and turned a boat... I was extremly lucky in that senerio, but my point is that you need to make them pay DEARLY to draw.

#21

15th November 2011, 12:08 AM

taaron [716]

re: Poker & how to play pocket aces when....

Originally Posted by Trimming1

I would have raised to like .35cents to keep an idiot like that from wanting to call. He probably was third or fourth to act and had implied odds to see the flop. We all have made decisions at one point or another based on implied odds; That was a straight gamble on his part but the pot odds at four or five to one gives him the technical "right price " to see the flop. Hell I once called a pre-flop raise when I was in the big blind with 7 2 suited because 6 ppl were already in the pot at a ten person table. LOL flopped two pair and turned a boat... I was extremly lucky in that senerio, but my point is that you need to make them pay DEARLY to draw.

Implied odds are sooooo super sick, but.. . . . .

There are a couple reasons why your logic is a slight bit flawed;
1.) you want lesser hands to call, merging is not idiotic though (not always anyway).
2.) when the flop is super draw heavy you have to be ready and willing to fold and wait for a better spot EVEN with PP 's

How is it that you have half your stack in with a 1/2 pot bet on the flop?

With 5 callers to his 5xbb raise the pot on the flop is going to be pretty big. I'm probably just shoving this flop in this spot and hoping to get called by top/middle pair, overpairs, or straight draws.

#23

15th November 2011, 1:14 AM

baudib1 [6,618]

Online Poker at: Full Tilt

Game: NLHE

5 callers X 5BBs = 30 bbs?

#24

15th November 2011, 1:18 AM

blikbleek [127]

Poker at: BorgataPoker

Originally Posted by baudib1

How is it that you have half your stack in with a 1/2 pot bet on the flop?

765 I would just b/f or c/f.

i had more than half my stack in. the pot was huge

#25

15th November 2011, 1:22 AM

mrmonkey [680]

Originally Posted by pcgnome

I am still wondering how anybody could possibly be stupid enough to call a 3/4 pot bet on the turn w/2 over-cards already on the board. That could be a leak.
What do you specifically mean by "results oriented"?

What you just posted was very results oriented. You didn't know that villain was holding 99 until after the hand played out. Assume that villain's hand is hidden. What could he have that he might call a 3/4 pot bet on the turn with?

* He may have paired his ace: AK,AJ,AT
* He may have two clubs: tons of combos
* Some really bad villains might call with KJ or KQ/JQ-type hands
* He may have two pair or smaller sets: AQ,A8,A3,QQ,33,88 (he would probably raise your turn bet here then and you can then get stacks in)

By betting the turn, you maximize value from the hand if he is holding one of those hands, and can probably then get stacks in on the river easily if he is holding top pair. You also avoid giving him a free draw if he's holding two spades or KJ. If he's not holding one of the above hands, then you'd be hard pressed to get value out of any sort of river bet... like you said, most opponents would probably fold 99 to any sort of river bet on that board.

#26

15th November 2011, 1:25 AM

mrmonkey [680]

Originally Posted by baudib1

5 callers X 5BBs = 30 bbs?

Oh wait, you're right, I fail math.

The OP's money formatting screwed me up... I didn't realize it was 4nl and not 2nl, then I was just using the .04c bb amount and did the calculation that flop pot size was >$1 (@2nl).

OP, don't play short stacked. This is why your decision becomes push or c/f on the flop.

#27

15th November 2011, 1:30 AM

blikbleek [127]

Online Poker at: BorgataPoker

Originally Posted by mrmonkey

Oh wait, you're right, I fail math.

The OP's money formatting screwed me up... I didn't realize it was 4nl and not 2nl, then I was just using the .04c bb amount and did the calculation that flop pot size was >$1 (@2nl).

OP, don't play short stacked. This is why your decision becomes push or c/f on the flop.

i bought in for the minimum. $1.40 i was a few cents down at this hand
i hardly ever play micro cash anyway cuz this kind of stuff happens every time.

oh and also a lot of other players had similar sized stacks.

#28

15th November 2011, 1:38 AM

taaron [716]

re: Poker & how to play pocket aces when....

Originally Posted by Cafeman31

Look to your left. Look to your right. Put on your shades. Shove it over on those bitches and watch them crumble.

says the guy on an obvious coffee buzz. . . . . just trying to make it to a commode before the unthinkable happens. . . . . .

#29

15th November 2011, 9:18 AM

Cafeman [3,200]

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Originally Posted by blikbleek

i hardly ever play micro cash anyway cuz this kind of stuff happens every time.

Every time man, every time.

My advice is to open fold AA to be on the safe side, and only play small SCs from now on. You only get into tricky spots with AA, which rarely improves post flop anyways. Those little disguised ninja SCs on the other hand, they are the bomb.

#30

15th November 2011, 4:15 PM

pcgnome [1,769]

Poker at: Carbon

Game: holdem

When your pocket aces are getting cracked, then you have to play KK instead.

#31

15th November 2011, 6:27 PM

pcgnome [1,769]

Online Poker at: Carbon

Game: holdem

Originally Posted by mrmonkey

What you just posted was very results oriented. You didn't know that villain was holding 99 until after the hand played out. Assume that villain's hand is hidden. What could he have that he might call a 3/4 pot bet on the turn with?

* He may have paired his ace: AK,AJ,AT
* He may have two clubs: tons of combos
* Some really bad villains might call with KJ or KQ/JQ-type hands
* He may have two pair or smaller sets: AQ,A8,A3,QQ,33,88 (he would probably raise your turn bet here then and you can then get stacks in)

By betting the turn, you maximize value from the hand if he is holding one of those hands, and can probably then get stacks in on the river easily if he is holding top pair. You also avoid giving him a free draw if he's holding two spades or KJ. If he's not holding one of the above hands, then you'd be hard pressed to get value out of any sort of river bet... like you said, most opponents would probably fold 99 to any sort of river bet on that board.

Your analysis for this hand is spot on for cash-game players. You guys live for the moment,and you have to be aggressive and go after all your opponents money.

I was in a deep stack tournament, since the blinds were low and there was very little pressure at this point, I saw it as an opportunity to try something fancy like induce a bluff on the turn or a re-raise on the river.

This hand had very little to do with the final outcome of the tournament.

#32

15th November 2011, 7:43 PM

blikbleek [127]

Poker at: BorgataPoker

Originally Posted by Cafeman31

Every time man, every time.

My advice is to open fold AA to be on the safe side, and only play small SCs from now on. You only get into tricky spots with AA, which rarely improves post flop anyways. Those little disguised ninja SCs on the other hand, they are the bomb.

no need to be condescending. obviously im exaggerating how often it happens.

#33

15th November 2011, 7:50 PM

blikbleek [127]

Online Poker at: BorgataPoker

in any case posters went off the deep end here.

this post was about how confident pocket aces should be played when 5 players called. the only real answer i got was to b/f or c/f on the flop, with that connected board.

#34

15th November 2011, 9:28 PM

Cafeman [3,200]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Originally Posted by blikbleek

no need to be condescending. obviously im exaggerating how often it happens.

No need to be offended. Obviously I was only joking.

Since the flop went multi-way and you received significant action on such a coordinated board, you need to find a way to fold AA post flop. 1 pair is most likely not the best hand by the river, and sometimes not even on the flop, as you discovered.

AA normally wins. End of. Sometimes it doesn't. End of. Know when you're beat and fold.

I think some of the reason threads like these become a bit of a joke-fest is because these hands are not that important; it's all those other spots that are more tricky that need the attention and not, "how do I play AA?"

#35

16th November 2011, 2:22 AM

mrmonkey [680]

re: Poker & how to play pocket aces when....

Originally Posted by blikbleek

in any case posters went off the deep end here.

this post was about how confident pocket aces should be played when 5 players called. the only real answer i got was to b/f or c/f on the flop, with that connected board.

Actually, I gave you another answer. Since you bought in for the minimum and are playing shortstacked, you basically need to open shove on the flop because of your stack size. Since the pot is so large relative to your remaining stack, it's either shove or fold. This is what playing shortstacked forces you to do -- play a shove or fold game.

You can't b/f on this board with your stack. If you bet, you commit your stack... and it's not that bad a thing considering straight draws and overpairs and possibly worse will call you.

If you are playing fully stacked, b/f becomes an option. Although since it's 4nl and you don't give any reads on opponents, I'd be more inclined to bet/shove on this flop if fully stacked as well because of the aforementioned possibility of straight draws, overpairs, and worse calling.