Were there two of these? I've most recently seen the one The Crack Emcee and others posted; but thought a little before, someone had one with a bit of green in it - might have been using it as a blogger avatar, or on facebook.

Pretty tough to fight ridicule, huh? It looks good on him, though there is more work to be done - but of course one gets the message.

I love it on VF where they're all circle-JOing over the Bush-as-Joker illo and one starts off on how Ledger's Joker is no maniac but a genius. Now THAT rings a bell with this one...

Lord have mercy......where have I been?....how could I have missed this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/althouse/3773118654/sizes/l/

It's a Summit ! One man's back is being held against the wall, as the other man burrows on in. A Grilling ! An Interrogation--- the man against the wall doesn't have the right answers but Der Kommisar is determined to keep at it.

Memo to Meade: Location is everything, and the minute you sit against a wall, you lose ground.

Let's be gentle with the left wingers on this. It's a new experience for them to have their hero effectively mocked with a hip, viral poster. They're only used to seeing him portrayed heroically on Time magazine covers, or standing in front of styrofoam pillars, or idolized with hip Che Guevara-like iconic symbolism. Seeing all that turned against him is jarring and upsetting to them and when they're not sure how to respond, their lower liberal brains kick in and their mouths start blatting out "racism! racism! racism!" They can't help it, it's just the nature of their condition.

garage mahal said... But — as Drudge points out — Vanity Fair did exactly the same thing to the image of George Bush a year ago.

Great point. Nothing can be offensive now, because something similar happened previously!

No. Not really. Just that folks who never criticized the VF picture don't have much standing to criticize the Obama poster.

I saw the Vanity Fair picture back when it came out and was underwhelmed--it told me a lot more about VF than it did about Bush. If there is any difference it is that VF is a main-stream publication and the Obama picture came from who knows where.

@cryptical, looks like Jeremy sent AlphaLiberal and garage mahal instead of showing in person. Apparently neither of them gets that the point of the poster is to piss off Democrats, just as the allegedly humorous portrayals of Bush as the Joker, as Hitler, as a chimp, etc., etc., etc. were calculated to piss off Republicans. Only on university campuses is there a right not to be upset by free speech.

Two preteen boys, or I guess by now---teen boys, who have not been encouraged to participate in sports.

And, therein lies the problem.

Once again, a Mom who completely disavows any, and all, sports activities for her sons.....and we can see where that's headed. How's it workin' out for ya Mom ?

Dad has some responsibility, but Mom wears the pants, and Mom is the one who ultimately decides on extracurricular activities.

Sports, and particularly team sports, solves a lot of problems with boys, and particularly boys that come from dysfunctional families--- and have sports to fall back on. It's the missing link and provides some sense of normalcy and continuity for these kids. The benefits of sports training for kids lasts far into their adult lives.

How sad, that, once again, we have an "educated" Mom who refuses to see that.

From the LAWeekly which had previously published a picture of Bush as a vampire on the cover.

"It has a bit of everything to appeal to the drunk tank of California conservatism: (...) The only thing missing is a noose."

They also complained of "white face". I'm not real sure what that's supposed to signify. I do have it on fairly reliable authority, however, that all nooses, always and forever, are about lynching blacks.

Thanks for that link Anton. Just imagine the outrage if any of those were Obama. My god, it would start a new Spanish Inquisition, which of course no one ever expects. Then all of a sudden, there they are.

It seems to me this is simply a case of the chickens coming home to roost, to borrow a concept from a real racist. Any Democrats upset need to examine their conscience about their tactics of the last eight years.

If it takes a village, and we can see the direct results of bad parenting...I have an absolute obligation to intervene.

Give those two boys a basketball. Start taking them to baseball games. Tryouts, sports camp, games, tailgate parties.... these are the things that give order, continuity and shape to young boys' lives.

Of course lefties and the media will be two faced about it, enjoying the mocking of Bush in worse terms while pretending to be outraged about this. And, compared to the Bush attacks, this one actually has substance with "socialism." TRO is right that the original "Why so socialist?" was a much better poster.

BUT, we would all be better off without such disrepectful treatment of our president. It is a shocking and disturbing image.

I think the Joker poster alludes to the destructive nature of Obama's policies... I don't think anybody necessarily thinks of him as a "crazed" socialist. Just an effective one! LOL.

I am undecided on that issue myself. I think it's entirely possible he's a socialist, and doesn't even realize it! But there's a fair argument to be made there. I don't really care if he is or not. I don't like the policies, that's all I care about.

That and the fact that he was supposed to bring a New Kind of Politics and Change I Could Believe In and it was all a giant crock of shit.

The Joker was clearly a psychopath. Right behind his rationale was simply a need to go berserk (Ledger's version). I think Obama is something far worse: an idealist who is actually a pretty nice guy, but no sense of where his policies have been (Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.), or what kind of disasters it makes when the government controls the economy.

Maybe the Joker has a sense of humor of at least a kind. I don't think Obama has a sense of humor. He can laugh on cue, but I don't think he's ever funny, or fun.

I saw a site earlier today with all sorts of Obama Joker merchandise on sale. I found it by Googling just that, "Obama Joker Poster".

Interestingly, someone had a Jack Nicholson Joker poster or picture up last all of Obama based on that iconic picture of him. I think that this one is more troubling to a lot of people, maybe due to Heath Ledger being the scarier Joker.

I saw that artwork for sale on the interwebs somewhere - shirts, posters and so on. But I don't remember the specific site. Wasn't the Che poster place, that's for sure.

And Obama is a crazed socialist - he wants power, and knows that if he controls the economy he has power over everyone and everything. Give it time - it will become clear that the banks, two thirds of the domestic auto business and health care are not enough. Absolute power is what he wants.

“He can’t be bought, bullied or negotiated with… some people just want to see the world burn.” — Alfred speaking of the Joker, in The Dark Knight (2008)

I think one of Obama's defining characteristics is that he's actually exceptionally easy to bully. As always, I like to trot out the example of his high-handed race speech during the campaign, where he claimed he couldn't disown his pastor any more than his grandmother, and his church any more than the black community. A month later, he disowns his pastor. Two months later, he leaves his church. His team can be hard-nosed and vicious, and he talks big himself, but when it comes down to it, he's kind of a political coward. He's not Batman or the Joker. He's not even Harvey Dent, really.

Great point. Nothing can be offensive now, because something similar happened previously!

Oh no. Hey everyone, look the liberal pussy is crying about being offended that his little lord and savior has been mocked in the Joker motif. Garage, you prove my point over and over and over again. Do you really think that people take you seriously anymore? That you being offended is somehow relevant to anything. Wow, so you are offended. Oh no, the sky just fell on your head. Woe is you. You stupid tool.

It will be interesting what comes of this. Part of the reason I think this went viral is that the left has totally overreacted. And, so, now it is politically adventuresome and rebellious to propagate the Ledger Obama Joker.

The reason that this could be significant is that for the last year, it has been cool to back Obama. And that is part of why he was elected - a lot of young people voted for the first time, just to vote for him.

But now, with all those on the left overreacting, it is now, at least in some circles, to distribute this picture.

The liberals running this country should know that the worst thing that they could do here is to be too sensitive to this sort of thing. That gives an added incentive to any young adults who wish to be different and express themselves as such.

What will be interesting is to see if this is a green light societally for making serious fun of Obama.

BUT, we would all be better off without such disrepectful treatment of our president. It is a shocking and disturbing image.

Agreed. But Bush was unfailingly gracious to the opposition--no one could credibly deny that he was a complete class-act as president. And look what it got him. I fear we are down that road, and there's no going back.

Well, then you are a backpeddling liar. You sure made a big deal about being offended. So I guess now you know what it's like on the Jeremy/Gene side of life? A liar telling lies to make himself feel better about telling them. I swear, between you, AL, and Jeremy/Gene, you make up The Three Stooges of Althouse with hdhouse as the occasional Schemp, and Montana Urban Legend as Curly Joe. One dimensional comedy.

The liberals running this country should know that the worst thing that they could do here is to be too sensitive to this sort of thing. That gives an added incentive to any young adults who wish to be different and express themselves as such.

What would you expect from shallow thinking leftists who have very very very short memories?

What will be interesting is to see if this is a green light societally for making serious fun of Obama.

The thing about it, though, is that it doesn't even really make fun of Obama. What about Obama is like the Joker? And what about the Joker is like Socialism? It doesn't even make sense. I mean, maybe it's the gateway to making fun of Obama in ways that actually do make sense, e.g. mocking his vainglorious sense of self-importance or whatever, but of itself, putting a Joker face on Obama isn't particularly funny.

Now, I suppose photoshopping Obama's head onto the Joker's head in the scene where he blows up the hospital makes vague sort of topical sense. And it's a funny scene, so it's kind of funny. But that's really a oneshot joke -- and it's not what we have here, which is just Obama's visage, blank and pitiless as the sun, with Joker makeup photoshopped on.

Clearly, there are a lot of Obama-ites who think it's an extraordinarily offensive act of lese-majeste to defile the face of their god, but frankly, it's not even like photoshopping a Joker face onto a politician is particularly offensive -- I didn't even hear about the Joker-Bush back when it came out. And there's a bunch of Joker-Clinton pictures from 2007 and 2008, and I don't recall any fuss about those.

I don't think there is any serious reason to doubt that Obama is a socialist, although I suppose you would have to come up with a an agreed upon definition to fairly discuss the issue.

But his background and own statements through the years pretty clearly convey that he is socialist, and his policies since becoming president confirm it. He is just pretty good at saying he is not or sounding like he is not. I hate to say it, but Rush probably is right. The best thing for the country is for Obama to be disaster and effectively lose his influence next year with the mid-term elections.

Now, I suppose photoshopping Obama's head onto the Joker's head in the scene where he blows up the hospital makes vague sort of topical sense. And it's a funny scene, so it's kind of funny. But that's really a oneshot joke -- and it's not what we have here, which is just Obama's visage, blank and pitiless as the sun, with Joker makeup photoshopped on.

Interesting idea. Given that it could be argued that he is currently trying to blow up the health care industry, that picture might have some resonance.

Oh no. Hey everyone, look the liberal pussy is crying about being offended that his little lord and savior has been mocked in the Joker motif. Garage, you prove my point over and over and over again. Do you really think that people take you seriously anymore? That you being offended is somehow relevant to anything.

Listen fuckface! I don't give a shit about the poster, at all. I really really don't. If you took my little swipe at Althouse as me being offended, then you're the little pussy who's projecting their delicate feelings, and that I can't help.

As a leftard Obamabot of the first degree, I must say that any objection to any figurative portrayal of the man who occupies the office of the presidency is un-American. The practice of caricaturing, distorting, lampooning and otherwise reacting against the figurehead (as the President always is) is a grand and noble tradition.

And I must say that it thrills me to think that it's Barack Obama in that position today. What a beautiful country.

a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

It's curious how desperately the Democrats try to disavow their government takeover of the economy as 'socialist'.

It's as if there is something so inherently wrong with socialism that one must contort, twist, elide, evade, and even lie in order to portray the state annexation of what was once private into 'public' control (i.e. socialization) as something other than what it is.

It attests to the magical power of words that by the mere combination of letters, or renaming this to that without changing its essence, one can be persuaded to adopt the most odious, selfish, monstrous, and destructive practices.

I don't think there is any serious reason to doubt that Obama is a socialist, although I suppose you would have to come up with a an agreed upon definition to fairly discuss the issue. .

So, he has no doubt Obama is a socialist, but he's not sure what a socialist is.

"The stupid. It burns."

Really, no kidding now. When you guys run around saying he's a socialist you sound really dumb."

After reading some of your current and previous comments, you've very nearly convinced me that your attention-to-detail gland has atrophied.

Kansas City has no doubt that Obama is a socialist by HIS definition. He then goes on to say that if there is to be a fair debate on the topic, the participants need to agree on what socialism is. That's a good policy no matter what the topic is.

Your anger is clouding your judgement, Grasshopper. There is no air in the windmill of your mind.

The power in the Joker Obama image is coupling the Socialist truth with the demonic evil from which that idea springs when in actual practice. Without free markets where free people trade private property freely, everyone is a slave for an evil Master's purposes, be they first announced as good or bad purposes. Both the Joker character and Obama are dedicated to destruction of the society they are lurking within. Corollary rule is that war is first the use of art of deception, and the un-masking of Obama's intent this early in his campaign to destroy a free people in America is unhelpful to Obama.

Lets see, we have government takeover of the banks and GM, Obama on record wanting universal health care... .

a) The (big) banks were not nationalized, or put into receivership. They were given public money . as an aid to them and now some of them are making profits. What, in your universe socialists love profits?

b) You (and other Republicans from districts with Japanese automakers) would prefer to see GM die. Well, that would do great damage to the economy when it was already teetering on the brink. Obama is returning it to full ownership ASAP.

He then goes on to say that if there is to be a fair debate on the topic, the participants need to agree on what socialism is. That's a good policy no matter what the topic is.

What's there to agree on? Socialism is pretty well a defined concept isn't it? If Alpha wants to deny that the State owning an automotive company and basically controlling the banking industry or government mandated and funded health care doesn't qualify as socialism then there isn't really much more to discuss.

Basically that is pretty much how debate on this blog has devolved to. To garage, Jeremy and Alphas nothing Obama does will ever change their attitudes or beliefs because they're complete ideologues. Depictions of Bush as Hitler or a chimp or calling him a Nazi and wishing for his assasination are just fine, a celebration of our free speech rights. Depictions of Obama as the Joker and calling him a socialist are racist, dangerous, offensive and shows a lack of respect.

That's why there is really no more point in engaging the other side when they can't even acknowledge their own hypocrisy over something so fucking obvious.

A true capitalist, a person who accepts risk as part of the business cycle, would have let them fail or forced them into bankruptcy. .

It's difficult to try and reason with a person who makes up new definitions to suit his needs as the debate proceeds.

Obama is a believer in the market system. Even his global warming action plan includes a market system - cap and trade.

And this was not just part of the business cycle. This crisis is beyond the damage of the business cycle and was inflicted by anti-regulation policies that allowed abuses on Wall St to continue for years.

I'm not debating anything about Obama or his policies on this topic. I'm saying that bailing a failing company out by giving them public money is closer to socialism than it is to capitalism. And to dovetail garage's comment, yes, I believe Bush falls into the same catagory on this.

This has nothing to do with whether it was necessary to avert a depression (highly debatable). I'm trying to figure out how you think bailing out a business is a capitalistic move.

Damn...you had to go and ruin the group hug. You can't lump all Republicans in with Bush, just like you can't lump all Democrats in with Obama (a fact that's become painfully obvious over the last few weeks).

I have always believed that, regardless of the topic, no one is better served by painting with broad brush strokes. I give free license to anyone to call me on it when I do, as I don't always catch myself. Stereotypes are, after all, intellectual laziness.

So we have some harmony then, Bush and Republicans are socialists just like Democrats. Hooray!

You're getting it garage. Unless you have been willfully obtuse (most likely) you probably missed the fact that most conservatives were quite opposed to Bush and the GOP Congress wasting taxpayer monies just like liberal Dems.

I have no use for any pol who thinks that the way out of this economic crisis is to mire the nation into even more unsustainable debt. I consider such a person either a 1) complete ignoramous or 2) willfully trying to destroy the national economy. After reading Obambi's books and then seeing he sat through 20 years of hate America sermons I'm heavily leaning toward #2.

Honestly in the beginning I would have preferred your girl over him but alas, it seems she still needs her husband to get a simple diplomacy job done so I guess we were screwed either way.

It would be nice if folks would define what exactly they mean by "socialist." The term seems to be used to mean anything the govt does or might do that I do not approve of but what they have done is ok if I approve of it.

Is the stimulous money socialist? Is federally insured bank insurance socialist? Medicare? price supports for farmers? G.I.Bill? health coverage for congress people? and on and on.

The posters of course are just from those who lost the election eating their liver and unable to get over the fact that they lost. Racist? I am not sure. hint: folks love the joker as much as Batman, so it will not work as intended.

It's an interesting poster more for the "taste of their own medicine" aspect of it the left is going through, with the image going viral since Sunday, than it is for logical consistency between Obama's personality and the Joker's. But if it's not a one-time thing and people start doing copy-cat images of Obama like the left did for eight years with Bush, then it's just going to get boring and predictable.

KnoxNobody was calling Bush and Republicans socialists though, like now, where it's almost every word out of conservatives mouths. And it's pretty pathetic seeing Republican governors make a huge stink out of the stimulus funds, their really opposed to it, they really want to resist it, then back home pose with pictures of big fat checks for projects as if they had something to do it with it. Eggh.

Yeah, we were actually. But again, even given the Bush admin's abundance of incompetence, he wasn't trying to grab a huge percentage of the economy while at the same time reducing personal liberty and putting us into record-shattering debt.

I have no love for Dubya at all and, frankly, was willing to give Obama his due hoping he was going to bring the transparency and pragmatism he espoused during the campaign. Mainly, I didn't want that harpie he was running against in the Oval office, but that's another story.

I would say no. To me its more of a waste of money. Out of over $700 billion, under $30 billion was marked for so called shovel ready infrastructure.

Is federally insured bank insurance socialist?

Considering its funded by premiums paid by the banks I would say no.

Medicare? price supports for farmers? G.I.Bill? health coverage for congress people? and on and on.

Not every government program is bad nor is it socialist. When I see the government step in and take over a private corporation, flat out disregard federal bankruptcy laws, hire and fire the leadership, I call that socialist. When I see the federal government force banks to accept TARP money and then dictate to them, I'd call that socialist if not fascist.

It seems to me that the only time the left wants government out of their lives its when its over killing an unborn kid. Other than that, they seem to have no problem with the government dictating what kind of car we can drive, how much we should eat, how high our thermostat should be or how many kids we should have.

Yeah, we were actually. But again, even given the Bush admin's abundance of incompetence, he wasn't trying to grab a huge percentage of the economy while at the same time reducing personal liberty and putting us into record-shattering debt.

Forget record shattering debt, try we will never get out of it debt. When you combine the fed debt with Medicare and SS, we have more debt than the fucking GDP of the planet.

But to dumbfucks like Obama and his followers who think money is made from pixie dust, what's a couple more trillion here or there.

Even if the government decides all those things plus how much health care we are allotted, keep in mind that none of it applies to the stooges in power. They get to keep the private jets, limos, healthcare, and cushy pensions, all paid for by dupes like garage.

Nobody was calling Bush and Republicans socialists though, like now, where it's almost every word out of conservatives mouths.

You are conflating overspending with a government takeover of huge sectors of our economy--within a 6-month period of time.

And it's pretty pathetic seeing Republican governors make a huge stink out of the stimulus funds... then back home pose with pictures of big fat checks for projects as if they had something to do it with it. Eggh.

Agree. And you should know that one mistake liberals make is assuming that the whole "Tea Party" thing is just against democrats. It's not. Conservatives are disgusted with Republicans right now too. After all, they are really the ones who made possible the mess we're in now.

See garage bailouts are just like welfare. Conservatives don't like it when its 17 year old single moms with 4 kids or corporations with failing business models. I'm sure you were busy driving your environmentally unfriendly cars around and missed the fact that most conservatives were insisting that GM file Chapter 11 rather than suck more taxpayer money into its maw.

So yes, conservatives were insisting that failing companies be allowed to fail. That's what bankruptcy laws are for. At least they were until your boy decided that he don't need no stinkin federal law to take over a private company.

That's two more than the Pentagon requested. And they stipulated they be assigned to the Washington, D.C. area. Hmmm, I wonder who might be using those? There's another $200 million dollars of your money flying away.

"The whole idea of bailing out banks started with Bush, and Republicans, remember that? And bailing out car companies."

And now that Obama is president, if he thinks it's wrong (which it is) he can stop it. He has the veto, he has the bully pulpit, he has the power. But of course, he doesn't think it's wrong. He loves the idea of using the power the money provides. So he's not changing direction and correcting a mistake. He's doubling down on the mistake (or tripling). We've been saying that all along.

It all comes down to the simplest truism your mother ever taught you - two wrongs don't make a right. Just because a wrong started in a previous administration, during which there was a fully Democratic-controlled congress, by the way, that's no excuse for continuing it in the current administration. That argument doesn't provide cover. A majority of Republicans have always opposed it, no matter who was in power. Wrong is still wrong. You should listen to your mother.

Sure. And I have no problem with that. Most of us, including most who oppose President Obama's healthcare reforms, are reasonable people who support social services when there is a compelling reason. In the case of fire protection, an uncontrolled fire on one person's property can easily spread to other properties.

Likewise, most of us do not oppose government involvement in healthcare when there is a true public interest, such as requiring vaccines. Personally, I'd be all for greater government regulation of antibiotics for those same reasons.

What many of us oppose is the government involvement for the sole purpose of taking from one person to give to another.

What many of us oppose is the government involvement for the sole purpose of taking from one person to give to another.

Lets take it a step further. I keep hearing all about the 'evil health insurance companies'. Ok how about government mandated and paid for homeowners insurance and auto insurance? I mean those are necessary things too. Oh and life insurance too. Why not just eliminate the insurance industry altogether and have life, health, auto and homeowner's insurance funded by the Federal guvmit. Honestly those are just as necessary as health insurance so why not?

The failure of the left here to recognize and admit that Obama is creating a socialist economy (and therefore destroying it), is a failure that comes from "the implicit dogma of American liberalism," which inflexibly assumes that in any political drama "the liberal per se is the hero."

For Obama's supporters to admit his socialism also means admitting 'that mere liberal principle is not in itself a guarantee against evil; that the wrongdoer is not always the other -- "they" and not "us"; that there is no magic in the words "left" or "progressive" or "socialist" that can prevent deceit and abuse of power.'

It's a symptom of the anguish of the liberal mind and its unreasoning anger at being made to confront the facts of political life. When faced with 'the disorder and evil of history,' the pro-Obama faction will fight to save Obama 'in order to safeguard their own illusions'.

The failure of the left here to recognize and admit that Obama is creating a socialist economy (and therefore destroying it), is a failure that comes from "the implicit dogma of American liberalism," which inflexibly assumes that in any political drama "the liberal per se is the hero." .

I see the federal government force banks to accept TARP money and then dictate to them, I'd call that socialist if not fascist.

What got me is when the president is involved in decided who is going to be president of a supposedly private company. Also, loan modifications. Those are different then the spendulus. That’s just wasting money, mostly.

Listen fuckface! I don't give a shit about the poster, at all. I really really don't. If you took my little swipe at Althouse as me being offended, then you're the little pussy who's projecting their delicate feelings, and that I can't help.

Wow. So your balls do come down from you body cavity from time to time. To bad they are as shriveled as the rest of your diseased mind. Keep weeping you little vagina. I'm sure a good dose of monostat 7 will cure what ails you.

What the idiotic left perceives as the right being paranoid is attributable solely to their shallow, one dimensional thinking as always. What they fail to see, that conservatives do see is the long term preparation and ground work being done by this administration to pave the way for a systematic take-over of the private sector. Not today, not tomorrow, but 20 to 30 years from now and they will do it sometimes in bigger chunks like they are now, but mostly in small incremental little bits to get them under the radar.

@Hoosier:"Just wait. It won't be long before you start hearing 'Papers please' before being allowed into a town hall meeting."

Not that obvious. More like "due to limited seating" you will need a ticket to attend. Tickets will be available through the congressman's office upon 'request'. Voter registration rolls will help ferret out disorderly elements.

Not that obvious. More like "due to limited seating" you will need a ticket to attend. Tickets will be available through the congressman's office upon 'request'. Voter registration rolls will help ferret out disorderly elements.

True.

I still can't get over this administration getting the vapors over citizens 'speaking truth to power'. I'd like to challenge dickheads like Durbin to put up or shut the fuck up when they claim these people are plants and agitators sent in by health insurers. I mean these guys are really grasping when they have to resort to John Grishim level fiction as a comeback to legitimate criticism.

For example, Medicare is far more than that number, and is socialism.

You have to forgive garage Pogo. He's a liberal and math isn't a strong suit with them.

Case in point: There are currently 42 million Medicare beneficiaries. Medicare costs a tad shy of $500 billion a year.

Obambi says there are 47 million uninsured but somehow it will cost less than covering 42 million Medicare beneficiaries.

But like I said, math is not a strong suit to liberals. That's why they think $1 billion cash for clunker's program that was supposed to last until November and was pissed away in less than a week is a success.

I just signed up for a Senator Clair McCaskill (D-MO) "Healthcare Listening Forum" for Tuesday in my county. No mention of any screening, but there was a mandatory field where I had to put in something I wanted to hear covered.

Jefferson County is just south of Saint Louis and heavily conservative. No necessarily Republican, but definitely conservative.

garage says to come talk to him when the government tells you what kind of car to drive showing just what level of ignorance is on display.

It already does.

Ever hear of CAFE standards? CAFE standards dictate what cars are manufactured and in what volumes which artificially distorts the market for cars and limits consumer choice. Let me know when you'd voluntarily choose to be driving a Smart car in a T-Bone or head-on collision versus an SUV because there are absolutely everybody knows that smaller, more fuel-efficient cars are better in every single way possible than larger vehicles, right?

As far as telling you how many kids to have, government funding of abortion on demand isn't horribly far away. Just because we're haven't gone to China's "One Child Policy" doesn't mean the government isn't already involving itself in the size of families. (Speaking of which the Chinese are currently reversing that policy and asking families to have an additional child because they now have a huge generational bubble which is threatening to overwhelm its economy. Kind of like what we have in this country right now, but an order of magnitude greater. This is the danger of the government engaging in social engineering. But Leftists never own the consequences of their policy prescriptions.)

Tell me what car you'd like to buy, but are unable to, since Obama took office.

Forget it Jim. garage isn't interested in an actual dialogue on the topic because since Obama hasn't signed legislation yet that will restrict such vehicles there is nothing for you to worry about. So just move along and quit being a paid mobster hired by BIG AUTO.

"Tell me what car you'd like to buy, but are unable to, since Obama took office."

I'll do you one better. The Constitution (you remember that document, right?) does not specifically mention a right of the people to drive cars. It does, however, prevent the government from abridging the right of the people to bear arms. We can go back and forth as much as you would like on the 2nd Amendment, but it is currently understood as an individual right, which I believe even the President said he agreed with. So, any abridgment of that right should be unconstitutional.

However, there are many (too many to list here) under-the-table policies quietly being put into place that do just that. However, they're going after ammo. Apparently taking policy ques now from Eddie Izzard (lol). Just try to find various ammunition calibers in any kind of volume.

How about any car under $4500, I am discommoded from buying, because say a ten year old car for $3000, perfectly driveable for who knows how long, might be worth more as scrap now.

Lotta perfectly useful cars out there, for people who might scrape up a few grand in cash, but can't or won't carry the weight of a new car purchase or lease. The cheapest car out there is well over ten thousand dollars. For less than half that, I can get a very nice used car, probably much better th an hat Yugo wannabe.

How about, any car that needs spare parts, because again, that other car that the junkyard can scavenge for a brake pad, side mirror, window, tranny, engine, etc., for my car, is now a cube of compressed metal somewhere.

If you want a list, go to the clunker website and look at the models there. They're not all clapped-out Edsels by any means. The freaking Mazda RX-8 (6 years old IIRC) that Glenn Reynolds drives, and loves, is on the list. Guess I won't be buying it used!

Now, is there any point in telling you this? Will you process the info I have given you? Will it change your thinking in any degree? Or will it be more mush from the wimp?

I'm actually very good at this. Give me a make and model you want to buy, and your budget, and I will find it for you. I can even steer you to the right place for the cheapest parts [used, OEM, or aftermarket]. Take the challenge! But be realistic on your price points.

Aside from the point we are talking about here, do you claim some auto experience/knowledge beyond craigslist/google-fu?

I'd like to know what are best bets for a car around $3000, a 4-door, reliable, good for a bunch more miles; "lagom" - adequate, decently roomy and with other car virtues if possible. It would be nice if it were new enough to have more modern features, a 2000 or later would seem best.

Meanwhile, what are choices today, what were they a few months ago before the clunkers plan, what will there be in six months or a year?

BTW - this was $1B in a week. Do we really want to subsidize the car companies to the tune of $50B a year? Really?

NichevoThere are tons of options for a 4 door sedan for 3-4k. I like German cars myself, so I would steer you to any 5 series BMW, preferably E34 body (1990-96). Bulletproof motors, safe, roomy and a blast to drive.

I'll concede some of these clunkers being scrapped won't be available for used parts, but really, how many people shop at salvage yards for parts? I have, and I'm not knocking it at all. But those models being scrapped are still available at most salvage yards.

"Tell me what car you'd like to buy, but are unable to, since Obama took office."

It's nice that you can go on pretending like CAFE standards have no impact on the marketplace. But CAFE standards didn't start with the Obama administration now, did they?

You want to set an artificial timeline starting January 20 which is completely dishonest: but then, why should I expect honesty from someone challenging a simple statement of fact?

You're trying to play games with your blatantly dishonest formulation, and I'm not in the mood to play along with your juvenile antics.

How many cars aren't on the road today because manufacturers never marketed them? How about the pricing distortions caused by CAFE regulations which artificially places higher prices on lower mileage vehicles?

In your world, none of that exists. CAFE standards have no impact on the choices available to consumers and they are meaningless to changing consumer behavior. Since that's your position, then I expect that your next post will be advocating repeal of the meaningless CAFE standards since they are completely ineffectual and neither manufacturers nor consumers are affected in anyway.

The engines are required to be destroyed. So, by definition, they're not available.

Aside from the money issue, this program just seems so incredibly wasteful that it bothers me. I’m surprised that all these “recycle, reuse, re somethingorother” people don’t see that. I mean, we're spending a bunch of money to destroy things, so they can't be "recycled, reused, resomethingorothered".

It's nice that you can go on pretending like CAFE standards have no impact on the marketplace.

Jim, to liberals CAFE standards are how they measure up coffee shops. The cafe here is spendid don't you think? So much better than that place across the tracks. --Tracks? Haven't those been outlawed as environmentally unsound???? ARRRAGJWWH*@&@*&))!

But seriously folks

See garage lives in a world where he doesn't believe in man made global warming (evidenced by his own words and cars he proudly drives) but devoutly supports a President who does and is trying his darndest to get legislation that will further cripple the American ecomomy and is only upset that the cost of gas rose too fast.

See garage lives in a world where Obama doesn't restrict the kind of cars we'll drive but will do his darndest to get legislation passed that will pretty much put eveyone in oversived mobile cupholders.

See garage lives in a world where '47 million uninsured folks' means we need to add yet a 4th federal health care program that will end up costing a few trillion more taxpayer dolllars but it will have no effect on the rest of us.

Garage lives in a world where the only patriotic dissent is when a Republican is in office. Otherwise they're mobs, or 5th Columns paid by BIG HEALTH INSURANCE or agitators who need to be reported to Reichsmarshall Emmanual.

Garage lives in a world where despite what the President says out loud to the American people, it really means nothing until it is actually made into law.

I guess it boils down to the red pill or the blue one. Take your pick Neo.

A federal judge has cleared the way for the government's seizure of a creationism theme park in Pensacola owned by a couple convicted of tax fraud.

A ruling by U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers states that the nine properties that make up Dinosaur Adventure Land as well as two bank accounts associated with the park will be used to satisfy $430,400 owed to the federal government.

Kent Hovind, who founded the park and a ministry, Creation Science Evangelism, is serving 10 years in federal prison for failing to pay the Internal Revenue Service more than $470,000 in employee taxes.

He was found guilty in November 2006 on 58 counts, including failure to pay employee taxes and making threats against investigators.

The conviction culminated 17 years of Hovind sparring with the IRS. Saying he was employed by God and his ministers were not subject to payroll taxes, he claimed no income or property. Hovind is incarcerated at the Edgefield Federal Correction Institution in South Carolina.

Garage:I'll pose the same question, what used part are you looking for, and I will find one available closest to you in your area.

Not for long, if they keep this program up. Use your brain.

Our family doesn't "do" new cars. Or even almost new "pre-owned." So we have to go into significant DEBT to be green?

This is the biggest shaft to the lower middle class there could be. (That and the discontinuing of the sale of plain vanilla standard definition digital TVs. Cheapest -- CHEAPEST - new TV at Wal-Mart is $178. College kids used to be able to pick up one for $100.)

We ARE the quintessential re-cyclers who were recycling way before Ariana was a Republican's wife. Thanks for nothing.

I just signed up for a Senator Clair McCaskill (D-MO) "Healthcare Listening Forum" for Tuesday in my county. No mention of any screening, but there was a mandatory field where I had to put in something I wanted to hear covered.

Jefferson County is just south of Saint Louis and heavily conservative. No necessarily Republican, but definitely conservative.

If you get the chance, you might want to remind Senator McCaskill that she works for you and you are her boss and if does do what you say like a subordinate should, that the consequences of her actions will come in the form of her immediate firing.

Our family doesn't "do" new cars. Or even almost new "pre-owned." So we have to go into significant DEBT to be green?.

I don't either. I just bought a $1200 car off Craigslist [and sold one]. It was an absolute steal, you just have to buy sharp and do your homework. Really, is there a constraint on used cars in America? That's laughable.

The wing nuts here just can-not-stand the fact that the "clunker" program is working.

It takes a special idiot to say that a program that was budgeted for (cue Dr. Evil voice) $1 billion and was to last until Novemver, ran out of money in five days and they had to go running to the Chicoms for another $2 billion is a success.

In the real world that is what is called a catastrophic cost overrun or a total fuckup.

In the land of pixie dust and unicorns that garage and Jeremy live in its a sign of success. Because they simply can't believe so many people would line up for free money.

Let me be clear, this is the same government that is telling you that insuring 47 million people with taxpayer dollars will actually save money.