What if you just deny them both? Evil lurks in the heart of man it is not created by an outside influence.Mind you my name is Carmen and according to a Beatles' song I have been seen walking with the devil hand in hand. Go figure.

Hi Carmen, I just flicked over to your profile to make sure I had fanned you. I have embarrassed myself a few times lately by missing hubbers I liked to read and thought I had fanned. All is well this time though!

If you or your children had ever been hurt by an evil person you would not be so sanctimonious! There are people who have had loved ones raped, murdered, bashed and you think that those things happened because they "allowed" it. Please do you know how many soldiers died in all wars with the name "Jesus" on their lips, or women who prayed to Jesus as the rapist took them?Open your eyes, have some empathy and charity, what I get from your post is that if a member of your congregation had been hurt in any way you would say it was their fault, is that true?

I have both hurt and been hurt. If you follow the law of attraction at all, you would understand that we bring these things to ourselves. Thoughts are things. Like attracts like. If we fear evil things, we acknowledge the possibility of them happening.

I have strong faith in the Lord. I have been through Hell. Now I know what situations to avoid. I have not had an easy life, but I avoid anything that gives me a bad vibe now that I know where that can lead.

One huge field of the universe - filled with an ever changing mix of vibrations. Like the North and South pole of a magnet.... attracting and repelling. Such is the essence of life. Such is the essence of thought. Such is the essence of God.

Did that answer your question?

Yes it did...... but you may have to use "awareness" to see my answer!

Science and philosophy has ruled many events as a fact to have happened, but upon discovery of ancient rulerships which were based on 'god-kings', 'mystics' and/or 'oracles', who had contact with higher power entities, we learned religion was a hoax.

The bible- your so called truth- dates the Earth about 6,000 years. Yet, science dates Earth 4.5+ billion years old.

The bible is a system of enslavement by a religious order based on nothing real.

No the devil is not real, and believe me if anyone should believe its me. The closest thing we have to the devil is the collective ego of the human human race. if you or anyone else would like to educate themselves to my way of thinking visit steve gamble at equalibria and read his articles.

How does he show up in the forums everyday? Are you implying that the devil is a human who owns a computer? I thought the devil was in Hell. How would something that doesn't even live on the Earth have access to a computer?

Or maybe the devil is a word the use for evil, and God is a word they use for good. Have you ever thought of that? If you add one letter to evil you get devil, and if you take one letter away from God you get good. That's some food for thought. Maybe whoever made up religion took that into consideration. I believe in good and evil spirits, and they take over people. That may be where religion was going with angels and demons. I mean how can you read a book so much but not even try to figure out it's true meaning. After all, there are books written everyday that are fantasy but nobody believes in them. So why is the Bible that "chosen book" out of all the fiction books to be interpreted as REAL?

In Ephesians 2:2 he is describes as "the prince of the power of the air" - which I believe covers all electronic and satellite transmissions.

Lucifer is out there and he's in control of those who have not accepted Christ as their Saviour, he's not omnipresent, so he's not everywhere at once, but like Rick says, he has his minions to keep tabs on all he owns.

So the whole non Christian world, men women and children are going to hell in a basket because they have not read one book and concluded the same as you, despite the fact that this book spawned 300 odd different beliefs!

Sorry, but says who? It is like saying if you believe in Goblins you have to believe in Fairies because the two go together!! they only go together if you decide they do based on what you read in a book.

Sez who; for a while there I believed in the Devil but *not* in God (I know that sounds like a joke, but it's not -- I saw heaps of evil in the world, and not much evidence of a compassionate saviour alleviating any of it...)

I'd say a metaphor, maybe for human tendency to evil. HOWEVER I've felt actual evil before coming off a man in waves, it was chilling and terrifying. You know how you can feel someone staring at you, or you can feel the tension in the air if you walk into a room where people were arguing, or how you can feel someone's intentions to attack you? From this one man, one time in my life, I felt more than bad intentions. It felt like a true ... don't quite know what, not a substance but thicker than the air. I never knew before that something like that existed.

I better? Well Mr Marrow, that's kinda like shouldin' on me, telling me what I should do. But I made a note in my book, and maybe I'll check out LEWJ's hubs when I get a chance and am in the mood. You expect this to make me have an epiphany?

Have you ever noticed that those films are made by secular people? I think the Devil comes after secular people, but since they don't believe in the Devil, the Devil can just about do anything to them.

I don't define evil. Just recognize it in some people or situations. For example, a person that plays/manipulates others, whether it be subordinates, or their own children, like chess pieces, or scripting a soap opera. And these people are hurt. And there is really no good reason for it. Just for that person's own sick entertainment and empowerment.

If you or your children had ever been hurt by an evil person you would not be so sanctimonious! There are people who have had loved ones raped, murdered, bashed and you think that those things happened because they "allowed" it. Please do you know how many soldiers died in all wars with the name "Jesus" on their lips, or women who prayed to Jesus as the rapist took them? Open your eyes, have some empathy and charity, what I get from your post is that if a member of your congregation had been hurt in any way you would say it was their fault, is that true?

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Depends on what people did in their previous lives. The laws of karma carries over into many life experiences. It is possible for people to attract danger if they live in fear. Someone with a strong spirit and someone who is in touch with intuition can avoid impending danger. How do I know this? I've experienced it many times myself. I sense danger well before it can happen, I smell it and sense it. However, people who are not connected with their hidden senses of insight and intuition can blindly walk into danger without any warning whatsoever. People who live on their nerves or let phobias control their lives and go through every day experiencing demons that come in all shapes and sizes, will often attract exactly what they fear.

I will give you an example.

Someone who is scared of an aggressive partner, worried of being abused, worried of being bullied, frightened of death and afraid of any physical or emotional pain, are more likely to attract this kind of situation or aggressor than someone who isn't so mentally fragile or living in fear. These type of people seem to walk into the wrong bar, get themselves into violent relationships and step out in front of a moving car.

However, I will acknowledge that it is possible for strong minded people with intuition to become a victims of crime, and I will also agree that men of war die giving their prayer to Jesus. This is only just if Jesus exists and is who he is said to be. Many people go to war for they think they are fighting for a cause or for a purpose. Many choose to step into that arena on their own accord, whether in the name of their country or religion. Yes, these people are brave, focused but also fully aware of the consequences. The laws of attraction works in strange ways. It has no feelings, it has no preferences and doesn't take sides. If people put themselves into a dangerous position then danger will inevitably come to them. If someone steps out into the path of an oncoming train they will get struck and if someone jumps off a cliff, they will most probably die for it.

In today's society people need to be switched on because the levels of crime are very high. Now it is wrong for murderers and rapists to be walking our streets, but this is fact of life. If for example, a provocatively dressed woman takes a chance of walking alone, late at night in a dimly lit environment, well isolated away from others, well out of sight in an area notorious for loitering hoodlums, she is more likely to be attacked than if she walked fully clothed into a well lit and crowded high street.

Another example is this.

This year alone there has been a few plane disasters around the world where many people have lost their lives. Has this stopped people from flying? No...they ride their luck and take to flying anyway which good for them, for they are not letting fear bring them down, but however much they dress it up, they are still relying on lady luck to smile of them during that flight. Anotherwards, they are putting themselves in danger.

I'm only expressing my opinion here, basing my thoughts on past and present experiences. It isn't right for anybody to hurt or abuse another, but it is a reality that people must be wary of. Those with evil intentions will prey on the weak minded. If these people welcomed inner strength into their lives the evil predators would begin to disperse from our society. I also accept that in very few cases danger possibly can fall prey to someone who is normally instinctive to impending dangers.

I've picked up the vibes of people who emit pure evil and I know how to avoid them before anything can happen. How do I avoid them? I give them nothing to feed off. They sense no fear in me, they see an unknown quantity in me and it actually scares them. How? I am coming from a different level to them, a higher level which they cannot fathom in their psyche. A person with evil intentions are coming from a very dense frequency of perception. They feed off those who are on their level, those who have no strength of self, no inner spirit. They sense the weakness and pounce on their victims. What they see in me is a presence, an inner strength that forms a barrier. Strange how this may seem, but this barrier acts as a deterrent. I don't attract negative people around me. I know this because I feel it and see it happen. People who are normally switched on usually avoid any danger.

TheAllSeeingEye or the EYE of Horus, also known as the Eye of Providence in Christianity and The EYE of the world in Buddhism, is the symbol that represents the EYE of GOD that watches over human mankind.

It is also the symbol used for freemasonry and more associated with the Illuminati or the enlightened Ones. The EYE of Horus is also known as the watcher.

You will find my avatar on the American Dollar bill. Its purpose is the watcher over those who are not illuminated. Those who are the slaves of society. The Dollar bill was designed by the Illuminati or elite bloodlines.

The pyramid represents the physical body or physical world.

The EYE in the Capstone represents the spiritual world, the illuminated third EYE, the connected with ALL.

90% of professors are non-believers, huh? Do you have a link to back that up? Just want to see if that's true but I would probably say 20% of professors are non-believers. Just a guess but that shouldn't be the point since they aren't allowed to influence their curriculum on their religious beliefs.

I've had Muslim professors and they didn't teach their class like I was in Saudi Arabia.

Our families never forced any member to choose to follow the Bible. My son wasn't Baptised until he was old enough to understand and said thats what he wanted, we never pushed. God gave you free agency to believe or not believe. You have chosen to not, so how were you forced?

God, the all-mighty powerful entity, claimed to exist is not part of reality as we know or can prove.

The devil didn't exist, until religious/spiritual leaders put into text.

Jesus Christ never once promoted religion...he was a teach of consciousness.

Why do you think he always told his followers not to follow a false idol or god?

During Jesus Christ's time, he refused to teach religious/spiritual text of that time and since he refused he was executed because they didn't agree with his teachings....yet religion has him in their text.

What you need to do is "forget" certain verses. rewrite others, and anything that comes along like the earth not being flat, hold out against it for a few hundred years after it is proved wrong, ignore all fossils, etc.Then you too can believe!!!

Two plans were proposed to God, one by Jesus and one by Lucifer. Jesus was chosen by God to show humanity the way back to heaven but it allowed free-agency, Lucifer wanted to force humanity to believe or be punished God rejected Lucifers plan and he revolted aginst God and was cast out. So, that would put the existance around the time of Christs birth. The use of the word 'devil' may have come later but Lucifer is the devil.

I think Satan is a symbol for man's unbridled ego at its worst. And I think it's incredibly irresponsible to for anyone to say that an evil force made them do anything. Get some maturity, please.

You can feel evil energy from a person or people just as you can feel good energy. And when we feel good energy we call it God, inspiration, and all that. Those are nice thoughts. I think there is something wonderful in the universe, but I have no idea what it is, but when it comes to the devil, it's easy to provoke nearly anyone until you see him in their eyes. Funny we don't see it in our own, most often.

I don't think the issue is about calling each other liars, actually, with all due respect. Those who do believe in a devil could accuse non-believers as being liars, too. I think it's okay to agree to disagree on this one. It is an interesting and thought provoking thing to discuss. It does cause some internal evaluation, which I think for the most part, is good.

I think Satan is a symbol for man's unbridled ego at its worst. And I think it's incredibly irresponsible to for anyone to say that an evil force made them do anything. Get some maturity, please.

You can feel evil energy from a person or people just as you can feel good energy. And when we feel good energy we call it God, inspiration, and all that. Those are nice thoughts. I think there is something wonderful in the universe, but I have no idea what it is, but when it comes to the devil, it's easy to provoke nearly anyone until you see him in their eyes. Funny we don't see it in our own, most often.

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That is a logical way of explaining this, a way that the left brain reasons with something.

In the spirit world dark entities, bad ghosts, demons, devils, evil spirits, negative energy, hostile extraterrestrial, whatever people wish to call it does exist, but they are residing on a lower vibration and frequency to positive energy, good spirits, angels, friendly extraterrestrial, light workers, whichever takes your fancy.

The secret to both physical and spiritual happiness, bliss, success, GOD consciousness is to rise above the negative in both physical and spiritual realities. When one can acknowledge and experience both worlds and dualities and learn how to balance them accordingly, especially learn how to control them and rise above any negative feeling or evil thought that exists in both realities then one becomes the light, the oneness, the all seeing eye...

the devil as far as i know is extremely real..... he would love us to think he was not, but he is definately ruling this world at the moment, and doing a good job.... The fact that some even think there is not a devil is him doing a good job.... The power he has

Cagsil may just have a point there. I find it a lot easier to believe in heaven than in hell. Punished for the rest of time? Satanic forces driving the poor old human race? Scare the pants off the children and peasants, keep 'em in line, sounds like to me.

Way to far. I take it sneakrocksolid believes in the Devil. That the Devil is real. (Not to worship but to recoil in horror at the wickedness of Satan, and eschew all his evil blandishments.) That's not bad, I don't necessarily think anyone's wrong or right about believing or not, but I DO think there's some scare tactics in there that I am, personally mind you, highly suspicious of.

Still it does you no moral harm and may do you some moral good to eschew Satan and all the evil doings.

I think it does real moral harm.The religionists view of the devil is a cop out.Religion puts evil in the corner, as the source of evil and removes the blame from the perpetrator.We are good and evil, and some will take responsibility for their own evilness and therefore not act on the impulses from the dark side of themselves.We have freedom that comes with ownership of the evil within mankind as a whole and ourselves as individuals and it is a lot more useful to make the truth conscious than blaming an invisible entity created by another invisible entity.

The paper is worth a read, it is a small sampling but reasonable. I accept the amount of religious professors is higher than I would have thought, however; some measures were a little blurred by the way the question's were presented. I don't know who funded it but Harvard professors handled the study. The biggest issue I have is how they handled the difference between the true religious, atheists and agnostics. The dilution of the atheists and agnostics by spliting that group in this discussion and in that research exagerates the difference. That said the numbers were pleasantly surprising.

The Devil is absolutely real. He has a grip on the earth and is planning his overtaking of humanity. I have personally experienced and event that would convince the most cynical disbeliever that Satan is real. He may not be everywhere, but his demons are and they are looking for weaknesses in the human spirit.

Yeah, I think the operative word there is 'false' - we kinda see Christ as 100% real, and He did drop some pretty strong hints that He WAS God, in fact I think that's why they crucified Him, it was the bit about 'I AM' that upset them, and everyone else who disputes it!

Yes, I will admit....Jesus Christ was a Human male. He was considered a "GOD" among his followers, only because he had insight that amazed them, because they were not conscious of their own existence.

Past historical research(not only my own, but others) has shown where 'mankind' was in the evolution process and that there were literally millions of people walking around who knew nothing about their own existence, nevermind about having a pure rational thought go through their head.

The primitive language of the time was limited to 'metaphors' and religious teachings. Since Jesus Christ refused to teach the religious text of the time, he was executed, so he could no longer help free those who would be controlled by religious/spiritual leaders.

Do realize: many different 'god-kings' or 'oracles' or even 'mystics' existed during Jesus Christ's time. Yes, he claimed to be a GOD as well as he claimed each and every single human was also.

Why? Because, each had the ability to think for themselves and guide their own actions, by stepping back, formulating rational thought and being able to put those thoughts into a plan, then acting on that plan.

The religious/spiritual leaders saw that as a threat to their way of life and in order to protect their 'lies' of a "god", which didn't exist......they had took away Jesus Christ so he couldn't make others see they were lying.

It is the specific reason for why Jesus Christ wanted no humans to believe in a false god or idol.

Jesus Christ came into his own conscious way and felt like a "GOD", because he could do whatever he wanted.

And, for those who don't believe that- You don't seriously think that mankind could ALWAYS think for himself/herself...do you? Because it simply was not the case, as we have learned.

Jesus Christ was a teacher of consciousness, he wanted to bring humans out of the darkness(which at the time was guided by nature's guidance system, similar to that of all animals) and into the light of reality(conscious thought).

Yes- Jesus Christ did wonderous work, but it's unfortunate the truth has never really been announced to the world, as we can move past this infernal 'religious' brain-washing.

Whoever you see Jesus to be, He is recorded as saying "No one gets to the Father except through me" which is a pretty in your face type of 'I AM GOD'statement,.

Do I believe that there was a time when men walked the earth that lacked full consciousness, well yes I do.

Consciousness seems to have happened in two parts:

Before Christ and After Christ.

BC: Only certain people had contact with God through His Holy Spirit, they became the Kings, Prophets and Holy men and made the rules.

They generally were a pretty sorry lot in terms of judgement and made mistakes.

They tried to tie pleasing God down to a whole bunch of rules and then spent 400 years discussing every aspect of those rules until they could tell you whether it was allowed to pick ahead of corn on any specific day, or would be an offence against God, but were unable to show ordinary people how to communicate with God. Communication is two ways conversation, other wise one is talking and the other listens and that's not the communication that God wants.

Most people still keep to this system, and generally if you tell people God speaks back to you, they either scorn you or try to lock you up.

We are a people who expect that our mobile phones only work one way!

God allowed them to carry on long enough for the people to realise that this was not working too well, which meant that when Jesus was sent down here and started His teaching, people listened.

Christ threatened the religious establishment of the time (still does) that's why they crucified Him, and why the religious establishment still try to keep Him silent, trouble is, Jesus doesn't do silent, nor do His disciples!

Once Jesus got here and started talking to the people, He prepared them for a new type of communication from and to God.

He explained that as the old way was obviously not working, because the 'franchise' had been stolen by a small group of men, who claimed exclusive rights to deal with God in head office, then charged the people for the use of their 'direct line', that God had decided to send His son down to sort out the problems with the old franchisees, and in fact He was stripping them of their monopoly and making the whole thing 'open source', provided that people did not corrupt the source code.

So from then onward people could 'interface' with God through a new operating system called the 'Holy Spirit' - This greatly improved communications, however most folk still knew nothing of this new technology, and indeed were afraid of it as they had never had two way communication before (without being stoned to death as a heretic)so people were slow to take up on it.

Pretty soon Jesus's crew had told most everybody on the web at that time that this new operating system was available, and many people had switched from their previous 'gods' operating systems to the obviously better one which had two way communications.

But still people failed to see the importance that this software change had brought about, and some men, who saw the potential for controlling the people in this new idea, re branded the code as their own version and marketed it as 'The Holy Roman Empire Version 1.01'.

They claimed that they could prove that they alone had the exclusive rights to this software, and that from that time forward ALL communications needed to come through their hubs, which they set up in every town and village, with duly appointed software gurus who could answer ALL your questions, so nobody needed an operating manual, and indeed for a while it was punishable by death if you had a copy.

God saw that this was also not what He had planned, so eventually, when they kept burning people who wanted to break free of the franchise, He sent a man who questioned the franchise by pointing out that the original franchise agreement clearly stated that this software was available to ANYONE who wanted to claim it. They wanted to shut this man up too, but a whole bunch of sub franchisees where prepared to protect him in court and in fact, so they cancelled his franchise and told everybody that he was a heretic and would burn in cyberspace for ever.

This man never wanted to start a new franchise, but like all things good, people spotted the potential of getting in on the ground floor and pretty soon his version of the operating system was being spread far and wide, and people started issuing it in all languages, which made it easier for people to understand and apply to their own communication problems.

So where are we now?

Currently I still visit the current franchisees outlets to see what they are doing, but mainly they are still trying to find out how to keep people from dealing directly with God via His Holy Spirit, and trying to keep the profit margins up by promising prosperity if you endorse their brand and 'get in early'with your investment - which is fine because most of their users want a comfy hand free communications system and prefer to have the new owners tell them how to use their operating systems, providing new updates as they come out (God hasn't needed to change the replacement system, but by issuing updates these men can charge people again for the same thing with a few minor amendments of their own, they like to 'improve' things)

How ever, it is still based on an assumption. That assumption is that Jesus Christ's words are in proper context and also that he was the son of 'god'.

That assumption also makes for great story telling, which allows 'religion' to control people via mystical(non-reality) events and/or statements filled with conjecture.

You cannot prove definitively that 'god' exists.

- Jesus Christ was a human male, born to a real-life mother and had a father(reality says that it takes two to tango and a non-existent entity cannot make a real person pregnant), because of what we know about the human reproductive system.

That means, to understand where Jesus Christ truly came from, he was conceived, not immaculately, but through normal sexual contact.

- if there wasn't any form of religion in existence- then everything you just said wouldn't have existed. Therefore you wouldn't have the belief you have.

And on another point- I would be more than willing to accept a 'god' figure, if there was real proof of his existence, other than any form of written word, which by your own admission was created by man.

So, I guess I'll remain a non-believer and do what humans are suppose to do. Accept my life, make decisions(conscious thought and free will) and live life with a purpose.

Again, I did like what you said. It was pretty cool, but still based on an assumption, which honestly doesn't have any room in reality.

If you're interested in knowing what or how I deem what is 'reality' - I seek science and one of the wisest men to ever walk the planet- his name- Aristotle.

Reality by definition: Reality is what exists. Reality exists independently of anyone's thoughts, desire, will, or wishes. ALL reality is knowable.

The 'bible' and all religious text deals in a mystical world.

The understanding of Life is to be based on Aristotle, who was a conscious person. Not on imagination.

Yeah, no sweat, I realised you were just replying and I thank you for the compliment... sometimes the words flow, sometimes they just don't!

OK.... I really do understand your point of view, because up until I ran into Christ I was definitely anti the whole God thing and had been more aligned to Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlien than the bible, but facts (to me) are facts, and I did have this encounter with Christ and however you view his historic evidence, being present here and now does rather dampen the argument that he had no special powers and was merely a man.

....and there lies the rub!

For the record I don't expect that you should ever come to the same conclusions that I or other believers do, and frankly it's not relevant to me if you never make the leap to faith that I and millions of others have made.

If you are content with your life and whatever you view of what happens when you die, so well and good. I wish you well.

I've only been around for a couple of weeks, and when I first hit the forum, the good old 'machismo' instinct took over for a while, so apologies to those who got offended for giving offence, and apologies to my Christian brothers and sisters for giving you guys ammunition to fire back at us!

My observation of these forums has been that there seem to be a few 'non believers' who 'protesteth too much' and it seems like they use this site to reaffirm to themselves their atheistic beliefs.

The baiting of Christians is no worse than the normal chiding one would expect to receive wherever one spoke of faith.

Anyhow, my problem is that I HAVE a relationship with Christ and HAVE BEEN in filled with the Holy Spirit, and by that I mean that often when I am ministering or dealing with people I really feel the Holy Spirit take over, if there is healing I know full well it's nothing I have done, when I speak with people about things, I get 'words of knowledge' where I say what has come to mind and find out that I have 'spoken into' their situation without even knowing what their situation is or has been.

Now before I defected I had divination and could see what people were thinking before they spoke, and that made it easy to manipulate folk. So I do know the difference from one team to the other, and I can guarantee that as soon as I 'crossed over'from Lucifer to Christ, I was cleansed from ALL those things and given new gifts.

God does NOT do sideshows.

He intervenes where requested and authorised and does quiet miracles in people lives. If you are part of his team used here on earth, you know where the power has come from and you know not to claim the glory for yourself.

Lucifer on the other hand wants one to claim the glory, be vague about where the power comes from and encourage others to 'develop their own powers'.

Having been in both teams I can see these things. I understand that others cannot, because before I defected, neither could I.

So for me to prove that God exists to you is an impossibility;

You cannot or will not experience what I have, and which proves the issue to me;

I cannot or will not return along the road once travelled and now closed to me.

We may amuse each other though and if I promise not to get aggressive with you, maybe we can have some fun!

I do know....that mankind at the time, the followers of Jesus Christ were not conscious humans and he had to bring them out of their darkness and into the light of conscious thought, so they could think for themselves and make decisions so they could lead productive lives.

"I do know....that mankind at the time, the followers of Jesus Christ were not conscious humans and he had to bring them out of their darkness and into the light of conscious thought, so they could think for themselves and make decisions so they could lead productive lives."

For the first time,I think you really are trying to understand.I can feel your frustration at not being able to understand how believers think.I wish I were educated as you are so that I could sit and explain it as we see it to be.Why does everything have to be shown on paper or be explained step by step in order for you to understand.You have to be able to think outside the box just a little and for once I do not mean any disrespect to you.After your last post I realized you really are who you say you are.You`re truly looking for that answer.I doubt it,but maybe I can shed some light if you can think down to my level.

Rick, I'm a little bit offended, but I'll get over it like I do all things, as per your remark about coming DOWN to your level.

If I had to come down to your level, doesn't that suggest you are insulting yourself? Why you would do this is unknown.

I don't find myself above you or better than you. But, as I explained to Sooner than Later and I know Sooner Than Later has already responded in kindness about what we were talking about, but I've been able to sit back and objectively watch as the banter goes back between non-believers and believers, and to tell you the truth I'm appalled at the way you people treat each other.

Each of you act like you are better than the other, because you do have your belief, even as absurd as it is, and cannot find common ground for rational conversation about "GOD".

I see the bunches of remarks flying back and forth between each person on things such as scriptures and faith, belief versus Evolution(which is missing a key element, because the methodology/ideology is in the wrong context, like religion).

It is absurd that both sets of people can be right. One has to be wrong. It cannot be both ways.

And, I don't mean to be mean about anything in which I say, my understanding of humans is fruitful and plentiful, in more ways than I care to count. I appreciate your candid nature and honesty, but rationale, sane thoughts and reality(which is deemed by the 5 senses), begs to differ any account of religious text.

When I say, "Religion has be debunked?", it's meant not to anger anyone, but to explain that religion context has been tested by millions of people who were true believers and found that it contradicts natural human life, as we understand it.

There is a great many things we(all of us) need to stop doing and with the ability we each possess, we can step back and see things for how they are really.

I can understand your neediness for guidance from a 'higher' authority, because you refuse to shape your own life. I get that. But, please realize, I am human, I don't claim to be a prophet or a god(except I am GOD of myself, which is to say that I think for myself, I rationalize my own existence and I understand many people cannot), nor do I want argue with anyone about their beliefs.

Knowledge is power. Understanding that knowledge leads to wisdom, which in turns leads to oneself's ability to heal and move forward.

I've had my share of events in my life, which would lead me to believe in an external authority, but not after finding out I've been lied to for years, with regards to religion - the text it perpetuates as fact. I have come to understand that anything that is outside of reality, simply doesn't exist.

We exist as humans. How we got here or came to be is completely irrelevant to our existences as a race. Living in the past, does nothing for the present and can be detrimental to the future.

Hopefully, I have not offended you.

I only do want to understand people. How they form their belief and on what basis. If you form a belief based on a lie and you whole-heartedly believe it is true. There is nothing I can say that will change that. I was simply trying to get Sooner Than Later to rationally discuss his/her(sorry don't know the truth about this part...haha) belief.

Cagsil,I in no way meant any disrespect to you in my last post.And thank you Sooner than Later for defending me in not being sarcastic.I really felt your frustrations.I sensed truth in your words and was reaching out to you as a human being.I meant no wiseness in asking you to talk down to my level.I have 2 years of college but never achieved a degree.My last 38 years was spent being self employed in the masonry business.I`ve built wonders with my hands.But I have sense enough to realize that a person who has spent their life in research is obviously going to be a wee bit smarter than me.I mean, you don`t have to drop an anvil on my head.People such as yourself think in lofty levels and grand terms that the average slob doesn`t venture into.That`s all I meant.

Jesus Christ was a human man who doesn't appear in the bible until he was an adult?

Where was he before hand?

Why isn't there anything about his teenage years?

-------------

Could Jesus have been the son of a great Roman political leader? Could his mother have been an Egyptian Queen? Could his birth have angered the Senate? Could the Senate have ordered Jesus to be banished from the Roman Empire and its lands? Could Jesus in his younger years travelled to the far east and settle in the Tibetan mountains? Could The ancient teachings of spirituality through the Tibetans had been shown to Jesus? Could it be possible that Jesus returned to Rome in his adulthood and teach the people there spirituality? This would explain his healing powers and his connection with GOD.

Could the early religion of Christianity be the practice of Buddhism and spirituality deriving from ancient worshipping discovered by Jesus on his early travels?

The later faith system of Christianity and the born of the Catholic church came about after Constantine took the spiritual side of the religion and had the bible re written to fall in line with the Roman Empire. Remember the Romans spread Christianity around Europe and all lands that they governed, including Britain. Later this religion travelled across the seas to the US as the major religion forced upon the Western world.

The early Roman Empire hated the Jews, hated Christianity and allegedly murdered Jesus on the cross. Nero blamed the Christians for burning Rome in 49AD and had them tortured and thrown to the lions. The Romans despised everything that the early teachings of Christianity represented. Why? Because it was teaching ancient secrets to the people, secrets that have been hidden from the masses for thousands of years.

The reformed Christianity church sent the Spanish Inquisition to all corners of the globe to hunt out and destroy ancient teachers and civilisations that knew and practiced ancient secrets. The Crusade of the Templar Knights carried on with this tradition during the dark ages.

Does anyone know what the term, search for the holy grail means? What was the holy grail and why did the Templar Knights want it so desperately?

Could the Holy Grail have been Kabbalah magic and its mysterious secrets?

Does anybody know the history of the Ark of the Covenant? Why did the Templar knights and the crusade desperately want to get their hands on the Ark of the Covenant? What secrets laid within it? Could Kabbalah mysticism have any connection to the Ark of the Covenant?

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