Dikke, I genuinely feel bad for people who choose careers based solely on money. Of course a big part of the reason we all work is because we need money to survive. And of course very few people, if any, are going to enjoy their job every day. But I just don't see the point in choosing a field you dislike just because you happen to be good at it. What a miserable life! Although, I have to say, for a lot of people that's not a problem because most people naturally enjoy what they are good at.

Lilkimbo. If I had exelled in math I would have jumped for joy. I would have taken a engineering job or become a pilot that paid big money. Money was the bottom line for me. However I excelled at art. Its good that artists can be men or women. There's no gender role bias in that. However math gets better paid I think. I do dread the stereotypes people assume of artists.
My roomate in college was a math major and she had jobs waiting for her when she graduated.
I had to find jobs on my own. They don't even hire designers at job fairs. So much for art appreciation. Pretty much in graphic design both men and women do equally well. I still think some of the web designers who are men get paid more. About 20% more. Just thought I'd put my two cents in......

Lilkimbo. If I had exelled in math I would have jumped for joy. I would have taken a engineering job or become a pilot that paid big money. Money was the bottom line for me. However I excelled at art. Its good that artists can be men or women. There's no gender role bias in that. However math gets better paid I think. I do dread the stereotypes people assume of artists.My roomate in college was a math major and she had jobs waiting for her when she graduated.I had to find jobs on my own. They don't even hire designers at job fairs. So much for art appreciation. Pretty much in graphic design both men and women do equally well. I still think some of the web designers who are men get paid more. About 20% more. Just thought I'd put my two cents in......

Staple and everyone. Bravo to you all. I think woman are just as capable at some things don't get me wrong. I am sure you know you were not the majority in computer science or chemistry classes correct? Why is that? I was thinking about a science experiment I read about a few years ago. I have been trying to find it on the Internet. Anyway it was a famous test based on the old theory that social pressures have something to do with our interests. It was a control group of very young children. Both boys and girls were offered the same types of toys and tested for different capabilities. They found that without question the girls were superior at some things and the boys at other things. I couldn't help but notice when I went to my college only a small percent of women were enrolled in the chemistry and engineering colleges. I dont think it was because mommy wanted their daughters to be teachers either. I don't buy into that. Believe me if I could be a math major or a chemistry major I would have done it. I struggled like hell to get a C in those classes. I'm just not good at it. Does it have to do with social pressures? Hell no.

@Dikke.
I'm a woman. I'm a computer science major. My best girl friend is a chemistry major. My female cousin is a medical sciences major. One of my best guy friends flunked out of college.
When I was little, I played with toy cars. I played with barbies too, but half the time they were getting kidnapped and had massive action adventures and had to brave torture chambers and whatnot.
When my boyfriend was little, he played with barbies as well. My younger male cousin asked for barbies for Christmas.
Men and women are both good at sciences, just with slightly different ways of learning. Ways of learning evolved by the cultural roles of men and women in hunter-gatherer societies. Boys and girls play with the same toys, it doesn't matter what "gender" the toys are, kids don't care.
As for raising a kid without a gender... I'm wholly against it. I remember when I was little, I'd never seen pictures of male or female genitalia. I knew guys had a bulge and girls had a hole, but I didn't know where my hole was, and since I've always been fat, I've always had a bulge in that area. It wasn't until I got my period that I was wholly convinced that I was a girl, and not just pretending. I can only imagine my level of confusion if my parents hadn't raised me with a gender at all (and for the record, I've always FELT like a girl, even when I was confused, I still FELT like a girl).

@Dikke.I'm a woman. I'm a computer science major. My best girl friend is a chemistry major. My female cousin is a medical sciences major. One of my best guy friends flunked out of college.When I was little, I played with toy cars. I played with barbies too, but half the time they were getting kidnapped and had massive action adventures and had to brave torture chambers and whatnot.When my boyfriend was little, he played with barbies as well. My younger male cousin asked for barbies for Christmas.Men and women are both good at sciences, just with slightly different ways of learning. Ways of learning evolved by the cultural roles of men and women in hunter-gatherer societies. Boys and girls play with the same toys, it doesn't matter what "gender" the toys are, kids don't care.As for raising a kid without a gender... I'm wholly against it. I remember when I was little, I'd never seen pictures of male or female genitalia. I knew guys had a bulge and girls had a hole, but I didn't know where my hole was, and since I've always been fat, I've always had a bulge in that area. It wasn't until I got my period that I was wholly convinced that I was a girl, and not just pretending. I can only imagine my level of confusion if my parents hadn't raised me with a gender at all (and for the record, I've always FELT like a girl, even when I was confused, I still FELT like a girl).

This is sort of weird, but I guess it lets Pop pick his or her gender when she or he feels old enough to make an informed decision..we all are the sex we are born as (male or female), but it's quite possible to identify as a different gender. Children don't need to be told their genders...they will be able to figure it out themselves. It's just that most girls identify with feminine gender, and most males identify with the masculine gender, so most parents do just fine raising their children with that mindset.

Oh my. Poor Pop. How sad is that? The child needs to know their gender! Just wait until the child is about 5 or 6. You can tell them. I swear, if (it's possible) you are the parents to this child, and reading the comment, you are making a big mistake. All the tormenting this poor kid is going to get. And being so confused. Oh my. And imagine if your child can't handle this well? Therapy doesn't work? And they kill themselves! It'll be all your fault. It'll be like murder. I'm sorry...

thank you runningesq. Dikke, scientists actually just proved that there is NO difference in mathematical aptitude between boys and girls. I would suggest you recheck your references. I'm pretty positive of this considering I am a female math major and follow these studies pretty closely.

Scientists recently proved without a doubt that boys will be better in math no matter what we do and they don't know why.
Um, what research studies are YOU ready ?! It's very, very, VERY rare to see a social psych experiment with the end result of "proved without a doubt." methinks you are wrong.

<i>Scientists recently proved without a doubt that boys will be better in math no matter what we do and they don't know why. </i>Um, what research studies are YOU ready ?! It's very, very, VERY rare to see a social psych experiment with the end result of "proved without a doubt." methinks you are wrong.

I doubt there is much harm done, when I was that age, I went to a daycare with all boys, and really thought I was one of them. Kids that age don't really understand gender, and it's not a big deal.
I really don't see harm in this. They're not telling people the gender, because they don't want the child to feel pressured to act a certain way. Eventually, the child will grow, start looking like one of the genders, and it will be made obvious- I doubt this will continue until they're 18! xDD

I doubt there is much harm done, when I was that age, I went to a daycare with all boys, and really thought I was one of them. Kids that age don't really understand gender, and it's not a big deal.I really don't see harm in this. They're not telling people the gender, because they don't want the child to feel pressured to act a certain way. Eventually, the child will grow, start looking like one of the genders, and it will be made obvious- I doubt this will continue until they're 18! xDD

From the article Tres linked to on Salon.com: "Only those who have changed the toddler's diapers know if "Pop," which is not the child's real name, is male or female."
"Pop's wardrobe includes both pants and dresses, and the child usually gets to decide what to wear. "Although Pop knows that there are physical differences between a boy and a girl, Pop's parents never use personal pronouns when referring to the child -- they just say Pop," according to the English-language Swedish site the Local."
Hate to be the one who's different here, but I don't really see anything wrong with the parents choosing not to publicly state their child's sex. Their child is aware of the differences between boys and girls, and is likely aware of their biological sex. The real challenge for the parents will come later when the child starts school and interaction is based on gender. It would be interesting to see how they handle that.

From the article Tres linked to on Salon.com: "Only those who have changed the toddler's diapers know if "Pop," which is not the child's real name, is male or female.""Pop's wardrobe includes both pants and dresses, and the child usually gets to decide what to wear. "Although Pop knows that there are physical differences between a boy and a girl, Pop's parents never use personal pronouns when referring to the child -- they just say Pop," according to the English-language Swedish site the Local."Hate to be the one who's different here, but I don't really see anything wrong with the parents choosing not to publicly state their child's sex. Their child is aware of the differences between boys and girls, and is likely aware of their biological sex. The real challenge for the parents will come later when the child starts school and interaction is based on gender. It would be interesting to see how they handle that.

Um..."Pop"? I guess either they're going to think "really old man" or "sugar candy pop-girl"...seems kind of self-defeating...Anyway, this isn't going to work, because while what we call "gender" is socially constructed (how we treat and view people), it's informed by BIOLOGICAL phenomena. Typically, if you have a penis, or sex chromosomes XY, you're considered "male" or "a boy", and people will treat you as such. If you have a vagina, or sex chromosomes XX (or just NO Y's), you're a "girl", a "female" and people will treat you as such. There are things women can do that men can't, and vice versa. Part of being human is knowing what your body can and can't do. While this "experiment" might help "Pop" develop into a more well-rounded individual, he/she is going to get a rude awakening when they start interacting with people. That child will be so confused.

Um..."Pop"? I guess either they're going to think "really old man" or "sugar candy pop-girl"...seems kind of self-defeating...
Anyway, this isn't going to work, because while what we call "gender" is socially constructed (how we treat and view people), it's informed by BIOLOGICAL phenomena. Typically, if you have a penis, or sex chromosomes XY, you're considered "male" or "a boy", and people will treat you as such. If you have a vagina, or sex chromosomes XX (or just NO Y's), you're a "girl", a "female" and people will treat you as such. There are things women can do that men can't, and vice versa. Part of being human is knowing what your body can and can't do.
While this "experiment" might help "Pop" develop into a more well-rounded individual, he/she is going to get a rude awakening when they start interacting with people. That child will be so confused.

How does a seven-year-old with no name go to school? What do they call her there? At least she knows she's a girl, though. Hiding the gender of your child is really not going to do anything but make people say how very ridiculous it is and maybe screw up the child more than knowing his/her gender would. The name "Pop" is not going to do anything for the kid either.

I had a psych professor in college who had a 7-year old daughter who she hadn't named yet... because she knew how much of an impact names can have on a child and she didn't want her to be "screwed up." The family referred to the child as "Sister." Right... She's SEVEN! With NO NAME. Some people are just WEIRD!