On the first side we have people saying that the Vikings cut Kluwe because of his outspoken views on some subjects. With this said there is no proof and this argument would be thrown out as being circumstantial at best. I do believe however that it did play a minor role in the decision to cut Kluwe.

On the second side we have people saying the Vikings cut Kluwe due to performance issue's along with money. This is the side that makes the most sense as we saw last year this very scenario when Longwell was cut.

Back to the first side I would say that being in management for about 30 years a decision to do something was rarely based on one thing. It was a stewing pot of many things unless someone did something blatant. Kluwe in my mind was probably cut for age, money, performance and finally distractions to the team. So while the distraction to the team might have been a reason, it was probably not the main reason as to why Kluwe got cut._________________

On the first side we have people saying that the Vikings cut Kluwe because of his outspoken views on some subjects. With this said there is no proof and this argument would be thrown out as being circumstantial at best. I do believe however that it did play a minor role in the decision to cut Kluwe.

On the second side we have people saying the Vikings cut Kluwe due to performance issue's along with money. This is the side that makes the most sense as we saw last year this very scenario when Longwell was cut.

Back to the first side I would say that being in management for about 30 years a decision to do something was rarely based on one thing. It was a stewing pot of many things unless someone did something blatant. Kluwe in my mind was probably cut for age, money, performance and finally distractions to the team. So while the distraction to the team might have been a reason, it was probably not the main reason as to why Kluwe got cut.

Very well said. It's about the total.

Everyone sees everything going on on the team, and Kluwe was distracted. I am sure that was noticed and not good for the team. We all know that if Kluwe was kickin the skin off the ball then he's still with us. I am a big Kluwe fan._________________
I love the Vikings, win or lose.

On the first side we have people saying that the Vikings cut Kluwe because of his outspoken views on some subjects. With this said there is no proof and this argument would be thrown out as being circumstantial at best. I do believe however that it did play a minor role in the decision to cut Kluwe.

On the second side we have people saying the Vikings cut Kluwe due to performance issue's along with money. This is the side that makes the most sense as we saw last year this very scenario when Longwell was cut.

Back to the first side I would say that being in management for about 30 years a decision to do something was rarely based on one thing. It was a stewing pot of many things unless someone did something blatant. Kluwe in my mind was probably cut for age, money, performance and finally distractions to the team. So while the distraction to the team might have been a reason, it was probably not the main reason as to why Kluwe got cut.

Considering the 'power of the pyramid', I'll add a third facet to the discussion of causes for Kluwe's release. The final straw among three nearly equal reasons was the availability of a replacement who has upside potential greater than Kluwe.

Without a better replacement, the Vikings would not have moved on. The Vikings could tolerate Kluwe's activism despite it turning off some fans and non-fans. They could also absorb his salary, as seen by their willingness to pay Allen this year more than he might be worth if his performance declines. Consider the reason why KWill's salary was changed before the draft. Consider what might happen if a rookie DE were to show in pre-season an ability to play as well as Allen.

The Vikings tolerated a few other player's past digressions and legal issues because they are high level performers. The acid test would be another player speaking his mind on a controversial or political subject. If they didn't/ don't release him, ask yourself 'why not?'.

Locke 'competed against' video of Kluwe last weekend, and he proved himself worthy of replacing Kluwe. He had to punt as well, or nearly as well as Kluwe has recently, hold well for FGs, and show enough agility to (attempt a) tackle a punt or kick returner.

If you thoroughly discuss several reasons for some occurrence and cannot come to a conclusion after some time, it likely points to multiple causes with nearly equal weight rather than one. Spielman et al made a well thought out decision on Kluwe after consideration of three important facets. Kluwe likely requested his release rather than wait for camp to be cut.

I agree that it was a decision prompted by multiple factors pointing in the same direction.

I do think there's been a concerted effort to make the Vikings a team of straight arrows and team players. All of the players we've taken in the draft since 2011 have been high character guys. When was the last time they took someone who dropped in the draft because of character concerns, Griffen? Lots of players touted for finishing their degrees (Ponder has an MBA) or being team/community leaders or being students of the game. Patterson is just about the only athletic marvel they've drafted recently, except for maybe JRob's 40 time.

Meanwhile most of the characters that made the late 2000s team memorable have moved on: McKinnie cut, Harvin traded, Favre retired, Kluwe cut. Most of the malcontents and variable effort guys have moved on too: Rice wasn't offered a contract, Berrian and Aromashodu are gone. About the only characters left are Allen (who's given heart and soul for the team on and off the field) and Griffen (who's cleaned up his act and seems very loyal). Simpson is grouchy with the media but apparently all effort for the team. They added Jennings who's Mr Leadership and they've got Adrian who's one of the faces of the NFL.

Don't think that's all a coincidence.

I bet it's not a moralistic strategy (we should be better people for God and country) but a team building one (we should hang together as a team so we can develop talent and perform at our best when the stakes are high).

I agree that it was a decision prompted by multiple factors pointing in the same direction.

I do think there's been a concerted effort to make the Vikings a team of straight arrows and team players. All of the players we've taken in the draft since 2011 have been high character guys. When was the last time they took someone who dropped in the draft because of character concerns, Griffen? Lots of players touted for finishing their degrees (Ponder has an MBA) or being team/community leaders or being students of the game. Patterson is just about the only athletic marvel they've drafted recently, except for maybe JRob's 40 time.

Meanwhile most of the characters that made the late 2000s team memorable have moved on: McKinnie cut, Harvin traded, Favre retired, Kluwe cut. Most of the malcontents and variable effort guys have moved on too: Rice wasn't offered a contract, Berrian and Aromashodu are gone. About the only characters left are Allen (who's given heart and soul for the team on and off the field) and Griffen (who's cleaned up his act and seems very loyal). Simpson is grouchy with the media but apparently all effort for the team. They added Jennings who's Mr Leadership and they've got Adrian who's one of the faces of the NFL.

Don't think that's all a coincidence.

I bet it's not a moralistic strategy (we should be better people for God and country) but a team building one (we should hang together as a team so we can develop talent and perform at our best when the stakes are high).

I would consider Kluwe a high character guy, the highest of character really, so I'm not sure why your lumping him in with some others there.

twslhs20Joined: 28 Feb 2008Posts: 13391Location: Where the true depth of one's soul doesn't resonate with the world

Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:43 pm Post subject:

Worm Guts wrote:

Krauser wrote:

I agree that it was a decision prompted by multiple factors pointing in the same direction.

I do think there's been a concerted effort to make the Vikings a team of straight arrows and team players. All of the players we've taken in the draft since 2011 have been high character guys. When was the last time they took someone who dropped in the draft because of character concerns, Griffen? Lots of players touted for finishing their degrees (Ponder has an MBA) or being team/community leaders or being students of the game. Patterson is just about the only athletic marvel they've drafted recently, except for maybe JRob's 40 time.

Meanwhile most of the characters that made the late 2000s team memorable have moved on: McKinnie cut, Harvin traded, Favre retired, Kluwe cut. Most of the malcontents and variable effort guys have moved on too: Rice wasn't offered a contract, Berrian and Aromashodu are gone. About the only characters left are Allen (who's given heart and soul for the team on and off the field) and Griffen (who's cleaned up his act and seems very loyal). Simpson is grouchy with the media but apparently all effort for the team. They added Jennings who's Mr Leadership and they've got Adrian who's one of the faces of the NFL.

Don't think that's all a coincidence.

I bet it's not a moralistic strategy (we should be better people for God and country) but a team building one (we should hang together as a team so we can develop talent and perform at our best when the stakes are high).

I would consider Kluwe a high character guy, the highest of character really, so I'm not sure why your lumping him in with some others there.

Yeah I'd say that is borderline ignorance as well.

Simpson was signed despite a drug issue. Cook had red flags due to character concerns coming out of Virgina Tech.

Character doesn't mean much when you are desperate to fill talent at a position._________________
Joe_is_the_best ^^

I agree completely that Kluwe is a high character guy. He's also "a character": interesting and unpredictable. I like his politics and I don't mind his attitude -- didn't mean to lump him with the scandals and bad behavior from McKinnie, Favre, etc, just that these were all guys who loomed large as "characters" even aside from the team.

My point was that the Vikings under Spielman seem to prefer straight arrows (Kluwe is a wild card) and team players (he is, but he didn't get along with his coach). They've avoided players with red flags in the last couple of drafts (Griffen and Ballard were the last 2 they took who dropped because of positive drug tests). Several of their picks have been touted for academic achievements and leadership qualities. They traded away Harvin, who wasn't big on the team concept, and signed Jennings, who's heavily involved in charity and leadership work about Being Great. They cut Kluwe and kept clean-cut Jeff Locke (and they drafted Locke, not Brad Wing). They've also avoided throwing money at guys with decent production who weren't reliable effort performers: re-signing Greenway but not Sidney Rice, for instance.

It's not an absolute thing: Simpson was re-signed, Cook was welcomed back, etc. They still have a few high-character "characters" who are fun to watch on TV, most notably Jared Allen. But there seems to be a trend: they're becoming a bit of a boring, more serious team.