I have a problem...a $3000 problem: I recently attempted to load an AMEX Bluebird card with a balance transfer from a Chase card. The transfer was done in late November, but never showed up in my Bluebird account.

I contacted Chase by phone about a week ago, explained the situation to them, and was told that this would be investigated. I hadn't heard back from them, so I called again today. (I also sent a letter formally disputing the charge today.)

Today, I was told that Chase had concluded their investigation, that the balance transfer had cleared, and that it went to "a non-US account" so there was nothing that could be done from the Chase side. (No idea how it went to a non-US account.) I explained the situation again and conference-called Bluebird support with Chase. On the phone, Chase and I confirmed with Bluebird that the balance transfer never showed up in my Bluebird account. We attempted to escalate the call, but Bluebird would not escalate with Chase on the line.

I have called AMEX Bluebird customer support several times and gotten my call escalated to a supervisor. Nobody there can see the balance transfer.

On the off-chance that the balance transfer was sent to the credit card people at American Express, I called the customer service number for one of my AMEX cards to see if they could find it. Nobody there seems to be able to see the balance transfer.

I tried to get someone through AMEX Twitter support, but was told that the twitter people do not have access to the Bluebird information.

When I did this balance transfer, I expected that it would either work, or that the balance transfer would be rejected and returned to my account. I never expected that $3000 would just disappear.

At this point, I'm trying to figure out how to not be out $3000. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

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posted: Dec. 27, 2012 @ 6:54p

Member Summary

Most Recent Posts

So does op now have $3000 in his bb account PLUS chase credited the money?? Woohoo!!

Bank error collect $3000!

SUCKISSTAPLES (Jan. 21, 2013 @ 2:36p)
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I have my doubts about this actually being the end result. However, if so, looks like OP just inadvertently socially eng... (more)

jaytrader (Jan. 21, 2013 @ 2:45p)
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Yeah, I wouldn't get too excited. I had some random website charge around $16 bucks to my chase CC. Chase flagged the tr... (more)

rufflesinc (Jan. 21, 2013 @ 3:19p)
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Preview

What to do: - Deal with Chase because they did not deliver the funds completely - Try speaking with someone at a branch - File suit in small claims court --- Possible downside: would be a matter of public record - File a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Buearu

Questions for me:Q: Did you use the correct routing number or your card number?A:I used the Bluebird card number when requesting the balance transfer

Q: Have you confirmed with chase that the account number used for the balance transfer was correct?A: Yes. I confirmed this on the telephone and on the letter that Chase sent me, confirming the transfer.

Q: You mentioned a foreign bank account. Is there a foreign bank account involved?A: There is no foreign bank account involved. This was from a U.S.-based Chase card to a U.S.-based Bluebird card.

Don't do this again: - Test the waters before doing something like this - Don't BT to Bluebird

Surprised you even got through to someone at Bluebird customer support. Tried to call them when I was having trouble adding a bill payer. Got a message saying "we can't take calls right now <click>", even though they trumpet 7*24 customer service. No email or online support either.

BenH

Dismembered Member

posted: Dec. 27, 2012 @ 8:41p

I think you need to deal more with Chase at this point. Chase telling you it went to a non-US account pretty much shows that it didn't go to Bluebird - and that is why Bluebird is not finding it.

Chase should be able to tell you exactly where it went (regardless if it is US account or not) - and how the payment was initiated to that source. Escalate at Chase - they may need to put in another request to investigate, so don't expect an answer over the phone right away. They must tell you the banking institution and account # at that institution it went to.

Did you ever get any sort of e-mail confirmation from Chase or Bluebird when you did the transaction. I use Serve at the moment - but pretty sure I get e-mails whenever I initiate a transaction. Did you ever see the "pending" transaction in your Bluebird? I hate to say it, but it sounds from the little information that you have given that you made a $3K transfer to something other than BB - and since it is "non-US" that sounds scammy to me.

But - as I said, Chase is not giving you all the information you are entitled to - go to local branch and request for an inquiry.

You attempted to load a Bluebird with a balance transfer from a Chase credit card. You got some fiiiiing balls on you.Next time find life on Mars while you're at it.

imbatman

Nerdy Member

posted: Dec. 27, 2012 @ 9:27p

watchtower7 said: You attempted to load a Bluebird with a balance transfer from a Chase credit card. You got some fiiiiing balls on you.Next time find life on Mars while you're at it.Not 100% sure why this is getting red. I've not read any reports of BTing money to bluebird. Due to its nature as a pseudo prepaid card, I would think its full of potential pitfalls. This thread just makes me never want to BT to bluebird. Took balls to take a leap and not test the waters first. I agree with others- keep hammering on chase.

dbond79

Senior Member

posted: Dec. 27, 2012 @ 10:14p

In hindsight, sure it seems like a bad move, but I could understand that OP probably thought that with 2 major US financial institutions involved in this transaction, what are the odds that the funds would be inadvertently sent to some Nigerian scammers?

Transfer denied or wildly successful would have been my bet, too (in that order). If the Chase BT offer had a fee, it probably had a minimum, so I could also understand the inclination to not test the waters first, again never thinking that the money would just disappear.

Anyway, I agree with others that OP should keep hounding Chase. I mean, if OP provided them with the correct account info for his BlueBird card, it seems like the onus should be on Chase to properly deliver the funds to that accoun, unless blocked. How they can justify the funds being delivered to an offshore account apparently not affiliated with either institution or the OP is beyond me.

GermanBoy

Member

posted: Dec. 27, 2012 @ 10:24p

BenH said: I think you need to deal more with Chase at this point. Chase telling you it went to a non-US account pretty much shows that it didn't go to Bluebird - and that is why Bluebird is not finding it.

Chase should be able to tell you exactly where it went (regardless if it is US account or not) - and how the payment was initiated to that source. Escalate at Chase - they may need to put in another request to investigate, so don't expect an answer over the phone right away. They must tell you the banking institution and account # at that institution it went to.

Did you ever get any sort of e-mail confirmation from Chase or Bluebird when you did the transaction. I use Serve at the moment - but pretty sure I get e-mails whenever I initiate a transaction. Did you ever see the "pending" transaction in your Bluebird? I hate to say it, but it sounds from the little information that you have given that you made a $3K transfer to something other than BB - and since it is "non-US" that sounds scammy to me.

But - as I said, Chase is not giving you all the information you are entitled to - go to local branch and request for an inquiry.

First off, going to a branch is a good suggestion. I had not thought about that route. I'll do that tomorrow and report back on how that goes.

I did get a paper confirmation from Chase, including the last four digits of the credit card account number for the balance transfer. I received no confirmations from Bluebird, and I never saw anything pending in my Bluebird account online.

I mentioned the "non-US" thing because they did. The account number I gave them when I initiated the transfer was a Bluebird account and it was my intention to do the balance transfer to the Bluebird account.

GermanBoy

Member

posted: Dec. 27, 2012 @ 10:31p

imbatman said: I've not read any reports of BTing money to bluebird. Due to its nature as a pseudo prepaid card, I would think its full of potential pitfalls. This thread just makes me never want to BT to bluebird. Took balls to take a leap and not test the waters first. I agree with others- keep hammering on chase.

That's part of why I posted the thread. I'm sure that there are other FWF readers who have tried or are thinking about doing a BT to Bluebird. If it worked, it would have been a relatively easy way to get cash out of balance transfers. I made the assumption that, worst case, the balance transfer would fail and end up back in my Chase account. This assumption was wrong. All FWF deals involve some degree of risk; I misjudged the risk in this case.

GermanBoy

Member

posted: Dec. 27, 2012 @ 10:39p

GermanBoy said: First off, going to a branch is a good suggestion. I had not thought about that route. I'll do that tomorrow and report back on how that goes.

Strike that. The closest Chase branch is 150+ miles away.

shopper711

Tired Member

posted: Dec. 27, 2012 @ 11:09p

150 miles only take you at least 2 hours of drive to save yourself from paying 3k for nothing.

dbond79

Senior Member

posted: Dec. 27, 2012 @ 11:12p

GermanBoy said: GermanBoy said: First off, going to a branch is a good suggestion. I had not thought about that route. I'll do that tomorrow and report back on how that goes.

Strike that. The closest Chase branch is 150+ miles away.That's $20 per mile ($10, roundtrip). I think I'd still consider road-tripping it if they continue stone-walling you. See if you can find some VRs while in the big city.

But the thing you don't explain is whether chase sent the bt to the right bluebird account numbers. Did you confirm with bluebird that the info you told chase was the correct info ?

That would be my guess. Did you verify the correct routing and account number. Did you use an account number or your card number.

Also how were you planning on profiting off of this bt?

anoleg99

New Member

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 6:46a

I would file a complaint against Chase with consumer financial protection bureau, they work pretty fast

StevenColorado

Stand up guy

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 8:14a

Quit screwing around with customer service. Send a snail mail letter to Chase's CEO (should be easy to find on Chase's website), tell him that Chase unaccountable sent $3K of your money overseas and doesn't seem to care about it. Apologize for bothering him, but none of his employees care. cc it to several other bigwigs there. Give dates and times of contact, etc.

faw169

Senior Member

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 10:57a

Could that "non-US account" happen to be a "GermanAccount"? Are you sure you entered correct routing number and account number? Anyway, like others said, Chase seems your best source of solution.

Small claims would leave you a permanent public recorder that anyone can see.

But the thing you don't explain is whether chase sent the bt to the right bluebird account numbers. Did you confirm with bluebird that the info you told chase was the correct info ?

That would be my guess. Did you verify the correct routing and account number. Did you use an account number or your card number.

Ditto. Have you confirmed with Chase what card # they send the BT to? Does that match your Bluebird #?

packratmarty

Shopaholic Member

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 11:33a

I've had Chase misplace money on me before. It took weeks to sort out and it was Chase's fault. Not exactly the same situation as I was not doing a balance transfer but they definitely do screw up. It was $1000 and when they took it out to put towards a refinance, I guess the refinance was not in the system yet and had nowhere to go so instead of returning it, it went to some limbo that took a investigation to find it. One hand does not seem to talk to the other with them.

macosx

Senior Member - 1K

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 11:41a

GermanBoy said: I was told that Chase had concluded their investigation, that the balance transfer had cleared, and that it went to "a non-US account" so there was nothing that could be done from the Chase side. What was the banking institution where the funds were sent to? If they can't provide a name, at least the numbers of the institutions. There is absolutely no reason not to provide this information. Privacy laws pertain to individuals, not institutions. They can leave off the specific account, and you might need legal action to pursue that if they can't figure out the problem in-house. If you can't find the bank from the number, post it here and I'm sure someone can help out.

It might be a case of one digit off being foreign bank instead of AMEX.

Glitch99

Senior Member - 10K

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 11:51a

macosx said: GermanBoy said: I was told that Chase had concluded their investigation, that the balance transfer had cleared, and that it went to "a non-US account" so there was nothing that could be done from the Chase side. What was the banking institution where the funds were sent to? If they can't provide a name, at least the numbers of the institutions. There is absolutely no reason not to provide this information. Privacy laws pertain to individuals, not institutions. They can leave off the specific account, and you might need legal action to pursue that if they can't figure out the problem in-house. If you can't find the bank from the number, post it here and I'm sure someone can help out.

It might be a case of one digit off being foreign bank instead of AMEX.Or simply the fact that bluebird is a new card, with a new account prefix, and is a debit card not a credit card. Saying it went to a "foreign" account could simply be because the card doesn't show on the list of available credit cards (because its not a credit card).

I'd assume the only problem is that much like trying to send a BT to your checking account's debit card, it simply doesn't work. And now you need to wait for their next reconciliation cycle for them to find the misplaced $3k and return it where it's supposed to do. You may be able to speed the process up, but finding someone able to who actually knows how is going to take pure luck.

AndyDev

Member

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 11:53a

I have had similar experience with chase. I had returned a $650 purchase while being out-of-country. the merchant returned the purchase and I had the receipt to show for it. Initially Chase kept saying wait a while as it is international and then started saying that you are out of the dispute time period. I took a multi-pronged approach. Filed a complaint at BBB, filed a complaint with Attorney general of Delaware where Chase is incorporated, and the consumer financial protection office. The current CFPB didn't exist then, but there was/is a similar Federal body called OCC(or something). Don't know which one worked but a week later I get a call from a Chase employee from corporate office who seemed to be able to move things around. After lengthy discussion they credited the money back to my account. I'd say dispute the transaction in-writing within the 60-day period. They'll make ANY excuse possible to avoid doing anything...

But the thing you don't explain is whether chase sent the bt to the right bluebird account numbers. Did you confirm with bluebird that the info you told chase was the correct info ?

That would be my guess. Did you verify the correct routing and account number. Did you use an account number or your card number.

Also how were you planning on profiting off of this bt?

I used the Bluebird card number to do the balance transfer. I was planning on profiting off this by forward-paying my student loan, giving me an effective 6% rate of return.

GermanBoy

Member

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 12:46p

faw169 said: Could that "non-US account" happen to be a "GermanAccount"? Are you sure you entered correct routing number and account number? Anyway, like others said, Chase seems your best source of solution.

Small claims would leave you a permanent public recorder that anyone can see.

Good luck and report back.

Just to be clear, there *should* be no foreign account involved. The transfer was from a U.S.-based Chase card, to a U.S.-based Bluebird card. I just mentioned that because the person on the phone with Chase mentioned it, possibly indicating that they sent the money to the wrong place.

I'm based in the U.S. I don't have any foreign bank accounts. (I did have a German bank account at one point, but I closed that when I moved back to the U.S.)

SUCKISSTAPLES

FW Historian

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 12:52p

Ok so you just entered the number on your bluebird card as the bt destination and hoped it would be transferred there?

Send a copy of your bb card showing the number to the CEO of chase and tell them you entered the number correctly and it has not been credited to your account

GermanBoy

Member

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 4:57p

Glitch99 said: I'd assume the only problem is that much like trying to send a BT to your checking account's debit card, it simply doesn't work. And now you need to wait for their next reconciliation cycle for them to find the misplaced $3k and return it where it's supposed to do. You may be able to speed the process up, but finding someone able to who actually knows how is going to take pure luck.

I spent some more time on the phone with Chase and Bluebird today. The Bluebird person I spoke with was in Phoenix at the AMEX corporate office (not the normal offshore call center for Bluebird) and she couldn't find anything, so I am satisfied that AMEX actually can't see the balance transfer money.

The Chase person I was escalated to was able to initiate a trace on the balance transfer. He said that this would cause someone to call AMEX and verify that the funds went into the account (or not). He said if they couldn't verify that funds had gone into my account at AMEX, this balance transfer would be reversed. This sounds promising. I'll get a letter confirming that the trace has started in 5-7 business days and a letter with the results in 14-21 business days.

I'm thinking that, at this point, I should wait and see what happens with that. I've already sent a letter to Chase to dispute the charge, so I am covered there.

Thoughts?

Glitch99

Senior Member - 10K

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 5:26p

GermanBoy said: The Chase person I was escalated to was able to initiate a trace on the balance transfer. He said that this would cause someone to call AMEX and verify that the funds went into the account (or not). He said if they couldn't verify that funds had gone into my account at AMEX, this balance transfer would be reversed. This sounds promising. I'll get a letter confirming that the trace has started in 5-7 business days and a letter with the results in 14-21 business days.

I'm thinking that, at this point, I should wait and see what happens with that. I've already sent a letter to Chase to dispute the charge, so I am covered there.

Thoughts?I think that's as good as you'll do for now, tracing the payment is what needs to happen. Any further effort is either going to 1) duplicate what's already being done, or 2) interfere with what's already being done.

ConnectedTraveler

New Member

posted: Dec. 28, 2012 @ 7:03p

Bluebird terms and conditions clearly state there is a limit of $100 a day for debit card transfers. ACH from a checking or savings account is $10,000 a month. There are routing and account numbers that are different than the card number also.

There are enough bad reviews online about Blubird that anyone should think twice before doing anything with them. Good luck.

chase always messes up. once i applied for a credit card with them that had an annual fee. they sent me $500 in giftcards. when i cancelled the card the next day, they ended up refunding my annual fee?? i realized chase was stupid, so i reapplied for the cardi had just cancelled, got another $500 in giftcards and got the annual fee refunded again after i cancelled again. all within 3 or so months. i did not do it a 3rd time because i felt so bad for chase.im guessin since they give me all this free money, they have to get it from somewhere. so im sorry to say I guess they fund their programs that benefit me using your money.i do thank you my friend, even if you did not contribute to my warchest willingly.loveoliver

andre1000

Senior Member - 2K

posted: Dec. 29, 2012 @ 5:09p

Here's several suggestions.

1. Treat this as a chance to get and education1a Don't expect success but treat it as an education1b Take notes including comments about your feelings (seriousl)1c If you have friends, A Mom and Dad, sister, brother, enlist them to learn with you.

summary for 1. Treat this as a class where everything you encounter is an element in your eductionWhy and waht's confusing. There's no name for this class you're creating yet. So it seems backwards. Ignore the reasons to quitand 'go on faith' you're doing something right.

Common problems = You don't have the time for it. Answer = It's not about the money anymore. It's about finding how things work. Sharing the answers will happen because you'vewritten down what you've learned.

2. Contact the FBI with a snail mail registered letter CC (copying it) to your House of Representatives Rep (look it up online usually through your zip code).

2a Each of your friends you've enlisted in this 'class' will do the same indicating in their own words that they too don't expectto see this happen in 'polite society' or 'The American system' .. whatever they deem to be the right wordingYou pay for their costs in sending the registered letter(s) to the FBI and their House of Representatives representative. Tip - pay a younger brother sister friend or someone to help keep track of this stuff people are doing.. consider it a donation toeducating the youth. If you don't have money PM me and I may pay for it for you.

2b CC the letters you sent to your Senators. Each State has 2 of them.

3a. Send a note to the White House indicating what you went through and who's you've contacted. Do this about a week or 2 aftersending the notes above. Someone may contact the House and Senate on your behalf encouraging them to help.

4. Phone local banks and ask, very nicely and happily as if you're making new friends, to talk with the branch manager. Ask him or her about themself. Say you like to get to know people and that you're looking to put money into the bank but that knowing people is your most valued relationship with the bank. Believe it or not that's what rich and powerful people admire. If you get the right person call them back later and mention that a problem has come up and simply ask them who they would getin touch with. Tell them that a friend suggested you write the Justice Department but ask them if there's other official 'bodies' to whom you can turn to for help. Also if it's a woman or man send her $30 worth of flowers thanking her for help (if she treatedyou well) and if it's a man buy at restaurants.com a gift certificate for the nicer restaruants. Send it to him snail mail thankinghim for his help Your cost $10 .. the value to him $50 maybe and 'a friend who takes care of him'

That's the point here. Finding and making friends..taking care of them and they will for 2 reasons take care of youa. They're people of integrity and they know what happened to you is wrong, illegal, and evil. b. They're people who appreciate someone caring for them and they've learned that to care for you only grows into a better life.

That's my position. By taking notes you learn something. By 'writing off the money' you're tested. Passing the testing phase createsnew life in you and new understanding for the future. Investing now means the next 100 years of your life may not fail problems whichcreate pain and frustration.

The details I suppose.

Citibank knows who they sent the money to. They are obligated to show the paper trail showing who it went to. Someone knows how CBank is protected if someone makes an error. By the way: A wrong routing number or bank account number is virtually impossible to create sending money to the wrong person.They both have to 'fit each other' (as is my understanding) before a payment will be accepted. The only exception is when the routing number goes to a bank who has the ability to create criminal accounts where by every account from 1 to 100000 is fake. Routing numbers, I believe, are issued by a Federal Agency or International Agencies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routing_transit_numberandhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_code

Knowing the bank code but making a mistake on the account number will mean the bank won't accept it because it won't exist. Someone at Citibank may have falsified the bank code and account. In that case Citibank is liable and a Federal Agency I say the FBI because wire transfers fall under FBI jurisdiction (in my understanding), is charged with following up wire fraud.

Summary: I say it's wire fraud.

Good luck with the education. Keep us informed of the site, blog, vid you create. Thanks

Write a blog about this. You can use the public blog as the place you put your 'class notes'. Make it a video blog on YouTube. Be unemotional. If you have a friend or younger person who will set it up and just say 'action' againyou're educating the youth on more than tech.

2a Send a

andre1000

Senior Member - 2K

posted: Dec. 29, 2012 @ 5:10p

Glitch99 said: GermanBoy said:

Thoughts?I think that's as good as you'll do for now, tracing the payment is what needs to happen. Any further effort is either going to 1) duplicate what's already being done, or 2) interfere with what's already being done.

Do what President Ronald Reagan would say, "Trust but Verify"

GermanBoy

Member

posted: Jan. 4, 2013 @ 12:42p

Update: I submitted a complaint to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau yesterday, around 1:00pm. By 3:00pm, I had someone from Chase's Card Services Executive Office calling me. Today, I had a temporary credit back to the account and it sounds like Chase is going to get this resolved.

Glitch99 said: I'd assume the only problem is that much like trying to send a BT to your checking account's debit card, it simply doesn't work.

That is correct. The OP should have never used the BB card # for the BT since there is routing # and account # separate from the BB card #. The OP can check the routing # and account # @ https://secure.bluebird.com/Profile/FundingSources Routing # is 124071889, by the way.

Good luck tracing the $3k.

brawa

Senior Member

posted: Jan. 4, 2013 @ 7:03p

Glitch99 said: I'd assume the only problem is that much like trying to send a BT to your checking account's debit card, it simply doesn't work. I have BT'ed to a debit card (Discover to BoA, 2 years ago) and it worked just fine.

brawa said: Glitch99 said: I'd assume the only problem is that much like trying to send a BT to your checking account's debit card, it simply doesn't work. I have BT'ed to a debit card (Discover to BoA, 2 years ago) and it worked just fine.

GermanBoy said: Update: I submitted a complaint to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau yesterday, around 1:00pm. By 3:00pm, I had someone from Chase's Card Services Executive Office calling me. Today, I had a temporary credit back to the account and it sounds like Chase is going to get this resolved.

Score one for the CPFB.

Still frustrating that Chase couldn't solve this internally.

Green for update. The CPFB and FWF. Sounds like the beginning of a wonderful friendship if you ask me.

GermanBoy

Member

posted: Jan. 21, 2013 @ 8:57a

KYBOSH said: I want to know where the money disappeared to...

I am still following the thread. It looks like, January 8th, someone at AMEX loaded the $3000 into my Bluebird account. Chase hasn't contacted me to tell me that the issue hasn't been closed yet, so I suspect they are still tying things up on their end.

Crazytree

Senior Member - 10K

posted: Jan. 21, 2013 @ 12:58p

GermanBoy said: Update: I submitted a complaint to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau yesterday, around 1:00pm. By 3:00pm, I had someone from Chase's Card Services Executive Office calling me. Today, I had a temporary credit back to the account and it sounds like Chase is going to get this resolved.

Score one for the CPFB.

Still frustrating that Chase couldn't solve this internally.99% of problems can be solved with a little patience and persistence... 1% of problems require the threat of a swift kick in the ass. This problem fell into the latter category.

Skipping 10 Messages...

rufflesinc

Senior Member - 4K

posted: Jan. 21, 2013 @ 3:19p

SUCKISSTAPLES said: So does op now have $3000 in his bb account PLUS chase credited the money?? Woohoo!!

Bank error collect $3000!Yeah, I wouldn't get too excited. I had some random website charge around $16 bucks to my chase CC. Chase flagged the transaction before it was able to post and after calling me, they blocked it so it never showed on my account. But then after that, the website gave me a credit for the same amount. Two months later, the website charged the same amount to the same card.

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