September 2, 2008

Did John McCain just repeat George McGovern's fatal mistake? How long will Palin stay on the ticket? Will McCain recover any better than McGovern?

It had nothing to do with Eagleton's particular problems, but how McGovern came to choose him, failed to adequately vet him, and then waffled when the problems arose, effectively costing him the election.

John McCain picked Sarah Palin to get the enthusiastic support of the evangelical, radical right. He didn't think it would matter that she has no national experience because he perceived he could argue Obama didn't either.

Or he thought it would work as a magnet for attacks that could be turned around onto Obama. But Merritt doesn't see it that way because:

Obama presented himself for 17 months to the American people, they heard him debate more than a dozen times, they made their own decision that he was ready for the job and the Democrats voted him their nominee.

Did they? I remember early excitement, among Democrats, followed by months of difficulty fighting back Hillary Clinton, who had let the nomination slip away by failing to do the math early on and to take the caucus states seriously enough. The Obama campaign figured out a clever strategy. Was this really the public vetting him? He pulled off a surprise early on, got some people very excited, and ultimately edged out the more qualified contender. How was that a decisive test? When the testing really got serious, Hillary surged. But it was too late.

Obama wasn't unilaterally appointed by a party's nominee in a transparent play for the evangelical and female vote. As if Sarah Palin could fill Hillary Clinton's shoes by virtue of her gender. As if women wouldn't see that Sarah Palin is the antithesis of Hillary Clinton on issues. As if anything would evoke Palin's lack of qualifications more than to compare them to Hillary's.

Yes, the VP selection process is different and more nearly unilateral. But the person chosen must be accepted by the Party, and the position is VP, where at least there will be some time for seasoning. And as for Hillary, Obama's qualifications looked weak next to hers and yet he won. Nor can you say that all of the support for her was because of her qualifications -- that weren't that strong -- and her policies -- they weren't all that popular. The fact is that she pushed the idea that she was a woman and she'd be the first woman President, and some people responded to that. For them, Obama's failure to pick her for VP -- or even to vet her -- is perhaps rather irksome. Meanwhile, Palin is something new and different, and disaffected, shunned women may feel the pull.

As I'm typing this, Obama is being interviewed by Anderson Cooper about Gustav. Anderson's last question was how he would answer those who say that Gov. Palin, as mayor of a small town and Gov. of Alaska, has more experience than he does. He didn't miss a beat. He smiled and said Palin's town of Wasilia, Alaska had 50 employees. His campaign has 2500. The town's budget is about $12 million a year. His budget is 3 times that per month. He cited the legislation he's passed on emergency management post-Katrina and that many recommendations he made were adopted and are being put in place as we speak.

It's true that Obama's biggest accomplishment is his success (thus far) in running a Presidential campaign. But isn't this a bit absurd? One qualifies to run for President by the very activity of running for President? I'm glad to hear that he smiled when he said that, because I don't think it's an argument you can make with a straight face.

165 comments:

And, of course, there's the fact that Obama was validated by a bunch of Democrats (a few few cruel neutrals) - not the general electorate. Let's see - Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Dukakis, Carter, McGovern, Humphrey - Yeah, being selected by the Dems is the best qualification anyone could have.

Jerelyn Merritt overlooks one convenient fact: George McGovern couldn't have won that election under any circumstances because he was...George McGovern. That is, a big-government, anti-war redistributionist who had a loud and loyal following among a small group of the electorate.

Most (but not all) of the MSM is talking about Palin's daughter's pregnancy and ignoring the vile left wing attacks this weekend that set all this off. One goes with the other but why would i expect MSM to be fair.

That being said this is one of those tests for Sarah Palin now that she is playing against the big boys and girls. So far i have seen nothing that makes her Eagletonesque.Let the left throw everything they have at her and the kitchen sink. If it doesn't work than Mr Obama and company are in real trouble.

Running a campaign does show executive experience. But it is a very special sort of experience.

The campaign organization starts when the campaign begins and ends when it is over. Campaigns are run by your loyalists, who have great power. Almost all of the people who work for a campaign agree with the candidate. They have one goal, helping him/her win. They can be expected to take direction from the candidate. And they can be fired at any time.

Contrast that with the federal government. It was there when you took office and it will be there when you leave. The employees have their own agendas. Most of the them are civil service. They can't be fired, and even disciplining can be hard. You rely on people who aren't your loyalists to get things done.

I'd really like Jeralyn, or anyone else, to explain how the Palin selection is a mistake. I read these claims and think the writers are living in another world. It makes me think of Churchill's "some chicken! Some neck!" speech - some mistake! by choosing Palin, McCain has at one stroke unified, and injected a sense of excitement and energy into, a GOP that had hiterto been lacking these things; destroyed Obama's convention momentum (and suppressed coverage of his speech); captured control of the news cycle, putting the Democrats on the defensive; forced the MSM to reveal their pro-Obama hand; and dragged screaming into the light the rancid slimy misogyny latent in the liberal base. Whatever one might say about Sarah Palin, McCain's choice was, without any doubt or close rival, the greatest tactical and strategic masterstroke of any campaign this cycle (it would be matched by Obama's withdrawing from public funding if that decision had been made by the McCain campaign). McCain has picked someone that the Democrats can't lay a glove on, and can't try without looking utterly ridiculous (for example, should they claim that she's inexperienced, they only highlight that our veep has more experience than their top of ticket choice; &c. ad nauseum). Some mistake!

Roger Sweeney made excellent points about the various types of executive experience. Non-profit management being different than for for-profit is another example.

Shouldn't that tell us something about Obama that he doesn't know there is a difference?

A related opinion: Were I Obama, I would do everything possible to avoid being drawn into a comparison against Sarah Palin. Not because of the perceived differences in experiences, but because Obama is not running againt Palin, but McCain.

If he allows himself to be drawn into the arguement, it sounds as if he is running for VP and has conceded the top spot.

McCain's biggest problem in this election is that the Republican base can't stand him. Picking Palin electrified the base and made them forget their problems with McCain and immediately killed off Obama's bounce from the convention. Yeah, it was a real bad pick, for Democrats. Keep talking and trashing this woman. The more you do, the more the Republican base will galvinize behind McCain and show up to vote.

Gov. Palin also has presided over a state agency responsible for regulating the natural resources on which virtually all of that state's multi-billion dollar budget depended.

Now she's presiding over the entire state.

I think that rather better executive experience than him hiring campaign professionals who're actually running his campaign's details, like the hiring and firing and direction of those employees and the spending of that money.

Jim Howard, I'm sure Zach has been oppressed by the capitalist system to the point where it would just be impossible. Maybe you'll take in trade an extended treatise on the collapse of the Soviet Union as a vindication of Marxist political theory?

One qualifies to run for President by the very activity of running for President? I'm glad to hear that he smiled when he said that, because I don't think it's an argument you can make with a straight face.

Oh really? Apparently you have forgotten how Hillary squandered money, overpaid consultants, and did a lousy job of managing her campaign. Those were arguments you even agreed at the time were devastating indictments of her managerial skills. I'd find a link, but little things like facts no longer matter to you when it comes to Palin.

Has Palinsanity gripped you so strongly that you have lost your memory and your reasoning powers? Or did you make this lame argument knowing that it contradicts what you said about Hillary's ousy campaign?

It's not the act of running a huge campaign organzation that provides some qualification, it is the act of doing it well--which Hillary did not do and Obama definteily has done.

When Joe Biden ran for the office of President of the United States earlier this year, about 98.5% of Democrats rejected him, yet Obama ignored their opinions and place Biden in a position to be a heartbeat away from the presidency if elected.

Barring death or dismemberment, Palin will be on the ticket at the end of the Republican convention and she'll be on the ticket on election day in November. If she isn't, John McCain might as well concede the day she cease to be the nominee.

Clearly no amount of arguments is going to change anyone's mind on this topic. I doubt seriously Gov Palin is going to drop out--and as Joewxman said above, she's in the game now with the (not so) big boys and girls. Will be a good test of her mettle--and I suspect she will demonstrate it to her consituency and the electorate. No one remembers what the critics say after the show is over.

Why is Obama comparing her experience in running a small town to his of running for president, when what she's been doing for the last two years is running the state of Alaska, which has a lot more employees and a much larger budget than his presidential campaign (Or at least I hope so).

The argument that running for president is a qualification for being president is just weird. By that logic it would be inherently impossible to elect an unqualified president because the mere act of running a successful campaign would be a guarantee of competence.

When did this happen? Senator Clinton made late progress among voters who may well not have voted for her in the general election.

The choice of Governor Palin pleased the religious (I shouldn't say "right" on Althouse, right?) - I think the campaign had a ten million dollar weekend - but the effect on independent voters remains to be seen.

Jeralyn Merritt has disqualified herself from being considered a decent human being. She is a serial hater, not for just this piece of work, but for her legal career demonstration being a anti-American .

I was listening to our local fox talk radio station this morning.... Where our drive time libertarian guys have gone into the tank for (first) Hilary and now Obama - very strange.

They were nattering on about how "choosing to get pregnant" at 40 and "risking having a special needs child" makes you unqualified for president. And lots more, but hold that thought.

This guy calls in, was on hold for half an hour. Says he was dropping his wife off to work and she heard that comment and was FURIOUS. Wanted to know what kind of fool would say that, why he was listening to them, etc, etc.

I says to myself: Another PUMA voting for Palin.

I love watching a 72 year old man and a former beauty queen throw the oh-so-much-smarter than us MSM and Donks over their shoulder and walk away.

Taking Obama's argument at face value for a moment, won't Palin prove she's qualified to be VP if her ticket wins? If campaigning for President is sufficient qualification to be President, I see no reason why the same wouldn't apply to to the lesser office of VP.

His campaign has 2500. The town's budget is about $12 million a year. His budget is 3 times that per month. He cited the legislation he's passed on emergency management post-Katrina and that many recommendations he made were adopted and are being put in place as we speak.It's true that Obama's biggest accomplishment is his success (thus far) in running a Presidential campaign. But isn't this a bit absurd? One qualifies to run for President by the very activity of running for President?

Like Mark W said. Obama is making a false comparison.

His 2500 staff agaisnt her 8 years as mayor.

Compare his 2500 staff agaisnt her 25,000 state employees.

then factor ikn that he doesnt run the campaign. He's the talking head. Axlerod runs the campaign.

then note that getting 2500 fanatics to move in the same direction is different than applying leadership skills to get 25,000 civil servants, many of whom didnt vote for you to work productively.

lastly of course, he's not running for VP is he? He brought in Biden to shore up Obama credentials. Biden is going to tutor Obama the way Cheney helped GB early (for better or worse). McCain is confident and it shows. Palin will learn fast.

In the end, Palin is a woman who has achieved a lot as a Republican and is not a feminist Democrat. Therefore, she must be destroyed.

The fact that she has more executive experience than Obama, Biden, and McCain combined makes it almost impossible to claim she lacks experience. The president is also titled the "Chief Executive" for a reason.

Clearly Palin needs to talk about this. In a speech or interview and quick. She needs to say how she told McCains about her daughter, how she thought it would be a deal breaker, how she thought her dreams would be over, and how McCain said it didn't bother him at all and he thought the American people were bigger than that, and even if they weren't, that he'd still support her.

Only a partisan democrat can assert that running a campaign with a staff of 2500 whom he can't keep in line anyway (Goolbsy, Powers and assorted anonymous staffers) is adequate experience to be president. I mean really, are the hard core democrats that stupid? Apparently so.

With all the money and campaign experience that Obama has gained, he made the informed and experienced decision to opposed the surge and to surrender in Iraq. Obama blew it on the most important foreign policy question during his time in the U.S. Senate.

Merritt's not a hater, merely a wishful thinker. These past few days have been like a sped-up replay of the past eight years, which we've spent watching these people frantically trying to light one damp squib after another.

It's refreshing that Obama, the candidate for President, thinks he slighty edges Governor Pailin, the candidate for Vice President, in experience because he has been campaigning for President the last two years, while she has been running a state.

Maguro, that's quite brilliant and deserves to be promoted to the frontpage by Ann.

Paul, the problem is that Jeralyn - who so far as I know had previously regarded herself as a feminist - is reveling in the prospect of a woman being bullied and hounded out of a political campaign. Just as it was with Bill Clinton, feminists on the left are again burning feminism on the pyre of convenience for the sake of liberalism.

As an indication of Obama's judgment, the U.S. yesterday turned over security for the previously "lost" Anbar province to the Iraqis. Two years ago, this was one of the most dangerous areas of Iraq, with a U.S. soldier or marine dying there daily, on average. So much for opposing the "Surge" (which was critical for the "Anbar Awakening").

Let me suggest that those like Merritt who are suggesting that Gov. Palin be dropped are engaging in an attempt to drive her off the Republican ticket, and that this is because they fear her and what she can do to the election.

Thomas Eagleton had a psychotic episode. Sarah Palin has a pregnant teen-age daughter. The fact that Merritt would wish to make a connection between the two speaks more to her bias than to her insight.

Not to sound repetative here, but negotiating a 26 to 40 BILLION dollar natural gas pipeline which passes into another country hits me as being a pretty impressive achievement in less than 20 months as governor of a no-where-do-nothing-know-nothing state.

And all those people she worked with didn't worship the ground she walked on. They all had their own interests, not hers in mind.

That appears to me to be superficial and simplistic. And the interviewer smiled back, right?

Palinsanity? I like the sound of that!Host a McCain fundraiser? Eh, er, uh, ah, well... hmmmmm.Host a McCain/Palin fundraiser?I could do it this weekend, but give me til next and we'll have 40-50... unless maybe we could do one this weekend for friends and another next... my BNI group usually needs a few days... got anymore yard signs?

Palinsanity?I like the sound of that!Host a McCain fundraiser?Er, uh, ah, ummm, ahhh... well....Host a McCain/Palin fundraiser?How bout this weekend? BNI meeting is tomorrow, so that'll be plenty of time... got any more yard signs?

What I want to know is what Jeralyn thought of Obama's reaction when Anderson followed up with "That's pretty lame, Senator. You know perfectly well that she hasn't been Mayor of Wasilla since 2002, long before you started running for President. The job she does now, and has done for the past couple of years, is Governor of Alaska. Where she is in charge of 25,000 employees and a budget of $12 billion. How does your experience match up to that ?"

That's a tricky statement, which is true only in the sense that he has no other "accomplishments". But see 8:00am The Drill SGT. Obama is the pretty face in the puppet suit with the script. Others, including Michelle, run the campaign.

How much longer before we are treated to the Hillary-type big repetitive lie of "35 years experience" or equivalent? Answer: already happening with his "international experience" gained from attending school as a boy in Indonesia (that would justify '40 years', a joke which seems to have crept off the stage to be augmented by "2 years experience running for public office", and Joe Biden). Anyone but an Obamaphant can see clearly how pathetic this argument is.

Has anyone checked to see if Palin is really a woman? Perhaps her daughters have had all of her babies, including themselves? There is no limit to the lengths that woman-hating republicans will go--including a sex-change operation to get a faux woman elected.

Oh, you brutes, you rethuglicans!

Bow down and praise the oneGive him your money and your gunsGive him a country that makes his wife proud!Lord, Barry heal the bitter ones!

Beldar has succinctly summarized the fundamental reasons for McGovern's loss, but it is also worth remembering that the worst hit he took from the Eagleton episode was the result of McGovern saying that he was "1,000 percent" behind Eagleton, just before he dropped Eagleton from the ticket.

I think a lot of Obama's supporters are impressed, like Joe Biden was earlier in the primary season, that Obama is "the "first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean." Their soft bigotry of low expectations doesn't require much more than that when considering Obama as presidential material.

Obama with that comment (and I watched it) went right along with his idiot surrogates who are still trying to say that Palin is a small town Mayor rather than the Governor of a state. And only in the mind of Obama and his Bots could running for President actually be a qualification to be President.

If that were true, we should turn the keys to the White House over to Ralph Nader right now.

If running Obama's campaign qualifies you for the presidency, then David Axelrod should be president.

The smell of fear is palpable. The Dems desperately want her disqualified because they fear a Republican leading progress for one of their core groups.

This is a test of McCain's ability to ignore the establishment (media included) and listen to the electorate. If he were to force her out now, he might as well go into a small room with a pistol in the desk drawer and recover what honor he can the old-fashioned way.

"He smiled and said Palin's town of Wasilia, Alaska had 50 employees. His campaign has 2500. The town's budget is about $12 million a year. His budget is 3 times that per month." this statement is true when Governor Palin was mayor (Obama was then a community activist). Now this are the facts;Sarah Palin is the current Governor of Alaska; operates a $9 billion budget and manages $13 billion in revenue. Furthermore, she runs a government that employs 25,000 people. I guess the "new politics" means skewing facts to get elected

"It's true that Obama's biggest accomplishment is his success (thus far) in running a Presidential campaign."

Actually, this isn't true.

Obama's biggest accomplishment is his success in running a Democratic Presidential nomination campaign.

He successfully convinced the most liberal portions of America to vote for him in sufficient numbers for him to secure the nomination.

If his general election campaign has been a success so far is highly debatable. In a year where every underlying public sentiment survey shows extremely favorable conditions for Democrats and extremely hostile conditions for Republicans, he has watched his lead dwindle while spending astronomical amounts of money. I don't know if it is a failure or a success, so much as too-soon-to-declare either way.

Am I correct, did Obama completely ignore her being Governor and having many more employees and much more budget than his campaign? His campaign seems awfully anxious to ignore the fact that she is the Governor of a state. How condescending is that?

The Palin selection has generated $10 million in contributions to the McCain campaign in just the 4 days since last Friday. Did the Eagleton selection do anything like that for McGovern? Who was it who thought Palin is going to quit? As if. Only in their most fervent and desperate wishes.

Maybe McCain's people vetted Palin and she chose not to tell them her daughter was pregnant, knowing that it would come out, placing a huge spotlight on her daughter. Which tells us that Palin, whatever else she may be, is a very ambitious woman. She weighed the effect on her daughter versus her desire to become a major player and went with her ambition. Nothing wrong with that, but it tells us that she is something other than the embodiment of regular galism.

I am excited about Palin. I do have concerns regarding her lack of experience. One aspect of experience that few people are commenting on is that an experienced politician is a tested politician. I would like to see a longer track record of having governed effectively, having made good calls in tough situations, having dealt with the opposition, etc. I have, of course, the exact same concern regarding Obama, except that he is running for the top spot not the VP. I cannot see how anyone could argue that he has a better "tested" track record than Palin. To the contrary, although Palin doesn't have a great deal of "tested" experience, she does have an impressive list of accomplishments in her short political career. She is the most popular governor in the United States. In her brief career she has stood up against government corruption even when she knew that it could cost her political career. She has actually done the things that Obama can only talk about wanting to do. The more talk there is about Palin's "lack of experience" the more obvious Obama's "lack of accomplishments" becomes. And did I mention she is running for VP so any comparisons between her and Obama can only help McCain.

Hahahaha, Even Obama can't believe he is running the Democratic campaign. That's what managers are for.

Another subject.- Did anyone see the article by Sally Quinn in the Wa Compost online yesterday? Damn, that is some seriously bitter shit she is trying to sell.

Seems to me her outrage could only be believed by people too young to remember the method by which she advanced her career. Perhaps she has Alzheimer's already?

Don't get me started Sally et al.

Perhaps there is some truth to the idea of a coordinated attack on Palin. The same talking points are listed in every single criticism I have read.

In my opinion, it seems a good thing for our culture that women feel free to attack each other in the true, last man standing political style Americans have always loved. I eagerly await the day Black Americans have progressed to the same level.

Obama Nation, game on. Can anyone remember anything erasing a convention so thoroughly as Palin has to the Democrats. She is wiping the floor with them. Thus the level of hysteria in those running Obama's campaign.

And just watch how Palin will deal with all this crap thrown her way. She won't hide behind "I'm a woman stop hitting me" like hillary and the faux feminist. She is already making the hyperpartisans of the left look like fools. Yeah, she'll be dropping out, like Ali dropping out before fighting Sonny Liston.

>> One qualifies to run for President by the very activity of running for President?

> Oh really? Apparently you have forgotten how Hillary squandered money, overpaid consultants, and did a lousy job of managing her campaign. Those were arguments you even agreed at the time were devastating indictments of her managerial skills.

Suppose that we're looking for a new CEO for Walmart. We have (1)someone who failed while running a McDonald's, (2) someone who successfully ran a McDonald's, (2) someone who successfully ran a small Walmart and had some extra involvement with the distribution system that other Walmart managers don't have.

ricpic said..."Maybe McCain's people vetted Palin and she chose not to tell them her daughter was pregnant"

Or maybe she told them and they didn't care, which is both the most likely explanation and the explanation that the campaign offers. I really do want to know if these "she wasn't vetted" people are serious - I mean, are you kidding? Do you really think she wasn't vetted? Really? Who ties your shoelaces in the morning? Same as the people who are pushing the meme that she didn't know what the veep does - it doesn't even pass the laugh test. You really think that that wasn't a rhetorical question? You really think she doesn't know the veep's duties? Really?

Seems to me her (Sally Quinn) of the Washington Post, married to foremer Managing Editor Benjamin Bradlee)outrage could only be believed by people too young to remember the method by which she advanced her career.

Sally did it the old fashioned way for women: sleeping with the boss (whom she at least married).

The Dems want to stab her through the neck Harriet Miers style before she can define herself. It's not like they have to worry that their once hidden media assets will be revealed to be partisan. That game is up.Meanwhile they expect McCain to keep quiet defending her like GWB did. Not likely.

Host- correct. Except she blew up the dude's first marriage before she married him. Oh, the hypocrisy. I'm a small l lib/anarchist. I don't have a problem in fucking one's way to the top. Whatever it takes, long as no one else gets hurt.

The ultimate laugh is about the Obama Nation women forgetting what rock they crawled out from under. The Quinn column is the most insulting shit yet written about Palin, but I can't wait to see who can top it. C'mon, Obama sweeties, entertain me!

Simon - Whatever one might say about Sarah Palin, McCain's choice was, without any doubt or close rival, the greatest tactical and strategic masterstroke of any campaign this cycle

They said the same thing about Pearl Harbor, too. Even the Japanese, though, said that unless things went perfectly, "the sleeping Giant" would awake and not settle with an Armistice, but war with The Empire all the way back to the Home Islands. "Then all the brilliant attack will have done is plant the seeds of our destruction."Yamoto and others were right. They hosed themselves.

Time will tell if McCains 15 minute meeting with Palin and his staff's follow-up inquiries was adequate vetting. If no more "surprises" come out, and Palin doesn't come off as a babe out of the woods and miscast gun-toting Fundie beauty queen - McCain looks good.She wrecks, and it is all on McCain's judment.

===================American democracy ultimately gets the candidates and sort of functioning government they deserve.Which is a good argument in recent times for scrapping the Constitution and making a modern one that works - and limiting the voting franchise to only those that contribute to society.

=============We got Obama precisely because Hillary proved her "1st Lady is a brilliant manager!" argument wrong with her managerial incompetence as head of her campaign.

In the end, the Dem nomination was Hillary's to lose, and she did. By showing how inept her people skills and judgment were. After a short period of the PUMAs (and the media assassins that helped knife her now in a "pity" the poor lady narrative) lionizing her as Victim, what people will remember is she presided over yet another organizational meltdown as executive manager. As bad or worse than her go as Healthcare Czaress.

And we got McCain even while half of Republicans hate and distrust the guy?

2. Because of continuing Religious Right bigotry towards Catholics and Mormons. Which killed "Mr 9/11" and Ridge as moderate prochoice Catholics, and forced the strongest Republican candidate, Romney, into appearing as a phony panderer in a desperate attempt to please the Southern Fundies.

3. 7 years of post 9/11 Republican worship of all people who do security jobs in government as "heroes" sucessfully propagandized many Republicans into believing that only War Hero and POW victimhood milker McCain was the only fit choice.

4. Timing. Jindal didn't have the time in office to be a credible candidate. The most successful Republican governor, competent and well-liked, square with the Jesus People - was precluded from running by the curse of his last name.

5. All the competent Republican Westerners, Midwesterners, Northern Industrial State Republicans were at a disadvantage because they have to govern differently than the way it's done in Alabama..and that displeased the Fundie Base...

The only "scandal" I'd be concerned about is whether the discharge of the head of the State Troopers who had not fired her ex-brother-in-law was an abuse of power.

The fact that there is an alleged scandal just further highlights the fact that Palin is an executive with real power who has to make decisions. In contrast, Obama, the former community organizer, has never made an executive decision.

Merritt wrote: "As if women wouldn't see that Sarah Palin is the antithesis of Hillary Clinton on issues."

And there you have a telling difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama: we *know* where Palin stands on the issues. Even Obama's supporters don't know where he stands--or where he stands *today*, at any rate.

We will always know more about Palin than we will about Obama, because she takes a stand and doesn't back down.

"Oh really? Apparently you have forgotten how Hillary squandered money, overpaid consultants, and did a lousy job of managing her campaign. Those were arguments you even agreed at the time were devastating indictments of her managerial skills."

So Obama's chief qualification for President is that he beat Hillary's incompetantly run campaign?

Hey Sarah! If you have a chance, shoot that damn donkey, dress it out, and cook it for dinner. The skinning knives are in the Jeep. Use that great moose stew recipe of yours. Donkey ain't much, I know; but someone should put it out of its misery and we don't want it to go to waste.

Wow - I never stumble into the comments here because there usually are way too many, and far more right-wing than the blog itself.

But I'm an Obama supporter in Alaska and I'd like to give my two cents - Most of the liberals I know here really are positively giddy about Palin. I mean, she's being thrust into the national spotlight for the first time while embroiled in an investigation for abusing her office for personal gain. She may very well melt under the national spotlight, and I can't see the average swing voter identifying with her or her family. The most damaging thing to come out in the 4 days of media scrutiny is her membership in the separatist Alaskan Independence Party. Who knows what fun stuff will come up next.

I mean, the only thing I'm disappointed about is that expectations are already low for Palin's debate performance against Biden, who can and will conjure up detailed and accurate foreign policy statistics and biting criticisms on a whim - sometimes while eating a sandwich walking to his car.

Seriously, if any of the conservatives here think that we Obama supporters want her off the ticket before November, you're deluding yourself. Battered Base Syndrome, Publius at Obsidian Wings called it.

Ummm Shane--that membership in the separatist party must mean AK allows multiple registrations--she has been a registered republican since 1982 but did, in fact, give a governor's welcome to the secessionists. Check the other recent thread for links and info. I gotta tell you man: your post has troll written all over it.

It doesn't help that the California legislature is run by the far left. They can't seem to give spend money fast enough.

It also doesn't help that Arnold made a huge push to bypass the legislature with reform initiatives given straight to the voters, and the voters rejected them all. California has what it wants, sad to say. Arnold fought hard, saw where he stood, and isn't playing the game of simple obstruction. He's been a good governor in that respect.

Had he won those initiatives we would have seen much more fight in him.

I always thought that the official story was that McGovern lost the election because Nixon and his CREEPS broke into the Watergate Hotel and stole all the winning Democratic strategy documents. Being 6 at the time, I only know the barest outline of the facts about Eagleton. Funny how the narrative changes whenever it is convenient.

Howard Dean was governor of a smaller state than Alaska. Vermont is the second smallest state in the Union.

Obama would be the least qualified president since before Lincoln. Lincoln is the only one of that group who had less govt qualifications than Obama, but he had strong personal accomplishments to make up for it.

I have been waiting for weeks to hear what Obama's qualification for being prez were, and now we have it. Winning the nomination. Whoopee. Can't wait to see the campaign ad to come out of that one. Palin forced him to confront this question he has been protected from for the entire campaign. Wow.

10:29, Peter Blogdanovich wrote The Dems want to stab her through the neck Harriet Miers style before she can define herself.

Really? I recall that Harry Reid praised her, and the rest of the Dems stayed pretty quiet. The most damaging critique of Miers came from the right.

Simon, I agree that there's no way that Bristol's pregnancy caught the McCain campaign off guard. I think the proof that they knew about Bristol's pregnancy comes from the selection of photos on Meghan McCain's photoblog for August 30. Only two of the photos give a hint, but they are ambiguaous, at best. Clearly she was hanging out with the McCain team/family, and there's no way that she could have hid her pregnancy from them.

Although McGovern was far more liberal than the bulk of the country, people weary of the Vietnam were ready to make a change. But, the Eagleton misstep was highly visible, because it was the first significant decision of his Presidential campaign. It showed McGovern hadn't done due diligence on a key issue, causing us to lose confidence that he could plan and execute the withdrawal from Vietnam. I would say Eagleton was the beginning of the end for McGovern.

I hope Obama has a better line of attack against Palin than the size of Wasilla, AK's government. That was her job before her current job.

Up to a point, I agree that Obama's successfully-managed primary campaign is a good indication of his executive skill. However if you follow the logic to its ultimate conclusion, he's saying he could be a good president because he could afford such a campaign. He built this thing he managed well because people gave him money to do it. Has American politics fallen to the state where the primary qualification for being president is that you're a good fundraiser? And then how do you comparatively evaluate McCain? When Obama's fundraising was picking up steam in 2007, McCain's campaign was broke, and yet here he is, the winner against some very well-funded opposition. Is it a better indication of future success as president that you can raise a lot of money and spend it well, or that you can win despite not having raised a lot of money?

Before Eagleton, I'm not sure if "vetting" was anything like the process it is now. As I recall the history, Eagleton was asked, "Anything in your closet that could hurt the campaign?" or words to that effect, and in response Eagleton lied.

In those days, the fact that a candidate had won election in major state like Missouri was considered to be sufficient "vetting."

It's funny that everyone focuses on how stupid McGovern was to pick Eagleton, while giving Nixon a pass for selecting Spiro Agnew, who was taking bribes and payoffs as governor of Maryland. In today's environment, Agnew's boodling would have been unearthed in three days.

I think you guys are missing Jeralyn's point - as an Obama supporter, I'm very happy that Palin's on the ticket instead of a Romney or Huckabee . . . it's not that we're scared of Palin, it's that we truly can't believe that she's McCain's pick.

I thought she was a bad pick even before I learned that she had run for Governor as a big supporter of the Bridge to Nowhere, that she ran Ted Stevens' 527 for a while, and that the investigation into Troopergate will be coming out at the end of October! To those of us who aren't drinking the Kool-Aid, it is just hard to believe that he picked someone with so much drama going on in her life, especially when he's up against a candidate many voters still feel unsure about. Obama has earned the name "No Drama Obama"; I'm waiting for the press to start calling her "Soap Opera Sarah."

She apparently energizes the Right, although I don't get why Bristol Palin's choice to keep her baby is a "rallying point" (and note I say that as someone with a moderate pro-choice viewpoint, who is glad the DNC added abortion reduction language to its platform).

The pro-life crowd's response to this otherwise unremarkable out-of-wedlock teenage pregnancy is like something out of the movie "Children of Men" (where humans lose their ability to procreate, and miracle pregnancy becomes the hope for the future). Teenage births aren't rare or anything - last year, the U.S. teenage birth rate was 53 per 1000 women aged 15 to 19, the highest rate in the developed world, which means that a whole lot of other pregnant teenage women kept their babies, too (probably at least half of whom, and maybe more like two-thirds, are "pro-choice"). I'm not belittling the seriousness of that decision on a personal level . . . but I don't see how it is a rallying point or "plus" for a candidate for Vice President.

"Didn't you get the memo? Obama himself was teen pregnancy. You're supposed to move on"

You must not have read my comment in full (which is an epidemic problem on blogs now). I did not attack or judge the daughter's pregnancy, I said that I don't get how Bristol Palin keeping her baby is a "rallying point" for pro-lifers. The fact that Obama had a single mother, like a huge percentage of the rest of people in the country did, only underscores the absurdity of it.

Peter Blogdanovich said... The Dems want to stab her through the neck Harriet Miers style before she can define herself. It's not like they have to worry that their once hidden media assets will be revealed to be partisan. That game is up.

You blame the media for Bush's idiotic selection of crony Harriet Miers? Who you think would have "defined herself" and been a Great Justice if only given the chance?

In fact Miers was given the "chance" to define herself in "moot hearings" that would follow the pattern of Judiciary Committee hearings. But after Bush and his inner circle emerged to announce their selection - not done as a test during vetting.

Miers did horribly in the moot hearings, unfamiliar and inarticulate in whole areas of law.

She had to be dropped. The pressure of conservatives was one factor, but the certainty that she would do poorly in hearings was the killer.

Fortunately for Bush, or unfortunately for the country if you think Bush II is a trainwreck, Bush was still President and his poor judgement and his inner circle's poor judgment just led to a staff shakeup for blowing the vetting.

With McCain, if more Palin surprises and baggage keep coming, he's the one left sucking eggs.

Hold the phone. I just looked at Jeralyn's commenters' response to her post. Seems like about 95 percent think her premise is absurd, think the issues being raised against Palin are small beer, and at least a few actually are concerned that she's going to be formidable.

Of course there were a few who called for immediate banning of those who said such things, but they were in the minority.

TalkLeft is not a hotbed of Obama-love.

P.S. I hope the left-wingers who regularly post here realize how good they have it. You can say what you want and you'll never get banned for your politics. You'll get a debate, you might even be on the receiving end of some harsh insults, but you can keep coming back to write whatever you want. This is not the case for even a centrist like me. If I deviate from the party line on a left-wing blog, my post is deleted and further comments are blocked. Now, I don't even bother to register on such sites anymore, because I know if I make a comment, few if any will see it.

I've always been curious whether the left-wingers who post here are bothered by that.

I had an instinctive and immediate positive reaction when I found out about Palin on Friday. I actually remember the moment I saw it confirmed on Drudge and RedState. I donated to McCain for the first time EVER shortly after the live announcement and her speech in OH. Consider how many other conservatives and reluctant McCain voters like me that there must be. (Look at the $$ the campaign raised over the weekend.)

The cries of the wounded and desperate on the left and in the MSM just make me love her more. The attacks on her and her family will drive more of us to the polls to vote McCain/Palin. You can't buy this kind of lefty insanity. This is an almost impossible choice for Dems to fight and not shoot themselves in the foot.

Yet I think that he forget the tics of his pseudonym, or else there's a new cedarford. You're supposed to blame the Jews. It's like leftists and Bush - raining? The JOOOOS! cold? The JOOOS! 2 instead of 3 pumps of vanilla in your latte? The JOOOOS.

Though the anti-evangelical and pro-catholic and pro-mormon slant today is new an interesting. Perhaps with time you might learn to let go of your prejudices and accept people of all faiths, creeds, and ethnicities. Naaaah, who am I kidding.

If Palin is removed from the ticket it will be the single most stupid decision that has ever been made. McCain will lose big time and deserve it.

I'm in my office today, calling speaking to many women clients and they are 100% thrilled and motivated by Sarah Palin being on the ticket. Like me they also have stated that when she was added they changed their minds on not voting for anyone and have even donated money to the campaign and/or the RNC.

The talking heads on the left are blind and souless ghouls. Keep it up. :-)

Running a campaign does show executive experience. But it is a very special sort of experience.

You know, someone might have mentioned this already -- it is easy to miss a point in this flood of comments -- but there's another problem with Obama's "I have executive experience from running my campaign" argument. That being, he doesn't run his campaign.

David Plouffe does.

Claiming campaign-manager experience on the basis of having a campaign is akin to claiming carpentry experience on the basis of having hired contractors to build an extension onto your home. Yes, you go over the details with them, yes you keep an eye on the work they're doing, yes you have ultimate authority over every aspect of what they're doing... but when they're done with their work they leave, and you still don't know all that much about carpentry.

As Flounder said in "Animal House" "This is GREAAT!" To see all the lefty falling all over themselves is hysterical! This election has really become the most amusing I can remember. Obamessiah has ZERO Exec. experience, ZERO! Palin ran a state with a 12 Billion budget and 25,000 employees. Oh, and that "Trooper" slime-ball drinks beer in his squad car and Tasered his 11 year old step-son. He's a real hero of the left. Keep at it lefties, the more you go on and on the more we see you for who you really are. ROTFLMAO

Is this what we as a nation are reduced to? Mob Rule? Is that what you people want? Unsubstantiated rumors fomented by irrational partisan extremists shall dictate the course of our elections?

In 1950, the question was:

Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

In 2008, the question is:

Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Alaska Independence Party?

In 1954, the question was:

Until this moment, Senator, I think I never gauged your cruelty or recklessness....Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator.... You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?

"The left absolutely knows that Sarah Palin's image and character must be destroyed. MUST.BE.DESTROYED!"

Actually, since the Palin announcement, Obama's moved up to 50% in the Gallup poll for the first time, and 51% in Rasmussen (including leaners).

And that's with the media still propping her up as an "opponent" to the Bridge to Nowhere and someone who has "taken on big oil" (when she's big oil's dream candidate), and with a huge percentage of the country still in the dark on Troopergate, her belief that abortion should be illegal even in cases of rape, her far-right views on the environment, etc.

The first thing Palin told the guy who started the vetting process (according to a reliable media source -- I forget which one) was that her daughter was pregnant.

She also told them about Todd's DUI when he was 22. Or whenever. Obama does coke and some people twitter over that.

Anyway ... Palin actually met and spoke with McCain more than once. If some of you who read the lefty blogs or Moveon.org's stuff exclusively would do your homework ... You need to get out on the net a little more. There's documentation out there guys, not just ugly old rumors and gossip.

A thought today, since some of the left blogs seem to be sooooo concerned about what a not so great mother Sarah Palin is supposedly turning out to be ("Her daughter needs her!") I didn't see anywhere any thought that maybe her daughter did NOT want her mom to turn down the VP offer. C'mon guys (colloquial)-- would you want to be the reason your mother turned down a shot at the VP nomination?

Our local libertarian talk show had a number of callers today who had lived in Alaska and who had relatives there. One lady claimed Joe Biden is in for a big surprise. (I am sure they are watching the tapes now.)

Apparently one of the McCain guys had a heart to heart with Palin and warned her this would get very dirty and ugly -- did she really want to go through this? She asked him if he knew the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull. He: "No..." She: "The lipstick." I laughed out loud going down the road.

the left has seriously misjudged Gov Palin, I thin. as for polls, anyone following them has NO understanding of the electoral process--The only vote that counts is the EC vote and that is done state by state--you can look that up by the way--its in the constitution. And for the left's consideration: Are you happy about the way things have gone? are you elated that the left, supporters of feminism, have deployed arguments that only the most unreconstructed male chauvinist pig would have made 40 years ago? Apparently so. Shame on all of you that have used these arguments. Shame on Barack Obama for not being more forceful--when moral leadership was required he fell far short, and is willing to countenance the politics of personal destruction to further his political ambition. This a "man" who should never be in a position of leadership.

Troopergate? Just another smear. Hollis French, Obama's point man in the Alaska Senate, who is running the "independent" investigation told the NY Times that it was unlikely there was a "'smoking gun on the governor' but that it 'certainly has the possibility of giving her an ethical black eye.'” $100,000 to give her a black eye?? No taxpayer sacrifice is too great to promote "the One." http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/emilybokar/gGxsmH.

French has appointed as "special investigator" a former Anchorage prosecutor who, along with his wife, an Anchorage police officer, are decades-long associates of Walt Monegan, the DPS Commissioner whose replacement by Palin gave rise to the investigation. Monegan was an Anchorage cop, finally chief, for thirty years.

The media continues to ignore the unsavory aspects of this investigation including the fact that it is probable that no statutes have been violated.

BTW, no candidate at Obama's level, particularly without national election experience, runs his own campaign. Executive experience? What a crock! Was he directing the advisors who had to quit for running off at the mouth or meeting with Hamas?

"as for polls, anyone following them has NO understanding of the electoral process--The only vote that counts is the EC vote and that is done state by state--you can look that up by the way--its in the constitution."

Not sure if your comment is directed towards me, since I never claimed that elections are not determined by the Electoral College. But I definitely wouldn't say that "anyone following [polls] has NO understanding of the electoral process," given how closely campaigns follow polling, especially on a state-by-state basis. And national poll numbers are relevant, too - based on recent voting patterns, it would be extremely hard for a Presidential candidate who loses the popular vote by a margin of more than around 4% to win 270 electoral votes.

Actually, since the Palin announcement, Obama's moved up to 50% in the Gallup poll for the first time, and 51% in Rasmussen (including leaners).

A week ago we were being told that candidates usually get a six percent boost from the convention. Obama gets a two percent boost coming out of the Democratic convention... and that's supposed to be because of Palin?

Er... ok. If you say so. A saner person might float the idea that maybe, just possibly, some of the tens of millions of people who watched his speech last Thursday ended up more inclined to vote for him. :)