HVAC-Talk site will be slow for the next few days. It's normal site/server maintenance. Thx -Dad

Welcome to HVAC-Talk.com, a non-DIY site and the ultimate Source for HVAC Information & Knowledge Sharing for the industry professional! Here you can join over 150,000 HVAC Professionals & enthusiasts from around the world discussing all things related to HVAC/R. You are currently viewing as a NON-REGISTERED guest which gives you limited access to view discussions

To gain full access to our forums you must register; for a free account. As a registered Guest you will be able to:

Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts.

Atheism is chic

Atheism is chic, it's cool, it's the latest craze. The bookstores are chock full of authors declaring that "G-d Is Not Great," that G-d is a "Delusion," that you are a moron if you believe in the Deity.

The secular press, of course, loves these books, and the reviews are largely admirable. Some of the books are also selling very nicely, as it's been a long time since atheists had much to cheer about.

Polls show that about 90 percent of Americans believe in G-d, but that leaves 30 million folks who just say no to a higher power. If only one percent of that group buys a certain anti-G-d book, you have a best seller.

But the atheist chic trend is not just on the page, Hollywood is involved as well. According to the book "Celebrities in Hell," a number of big stars may be aligned with the universe, but not with the force that some believe created it.

The book quotes the following:

George Clooney: "I don't believe in heaven or hell. I don't know if I believe in G-d."

Angelina Jolie: "There doesn't need to be a G-d for me."

Carrie Fisher: "I love the idea of G-d, but it's not stylistically in keeping with the way I function."

Indeed. Believing in G-d is not very stylish in mainstream media circles these days.

The question then becomes is there anything wrong with that? After all, we have freedom from religion in America -- the Constitution makes it clear that no power in this country has the right to impose religion on anyone.

So the atheists have clear sailing, and I say: Thank G-d.

That's because people of faith should be challenged and think about their beliefs. Critical thinking in all areas makes the mind sharper, and your philosophy stronger.

Thus, I was looking forward to debating the most successful of the atheist authors, Richard Dawkins, who wrote the best seller "The G-d Delusion." Dawkins basically says that science can explain everything on earth, and no one has any direct evidence there is a G-d.

But I stopped him in the fourth round with this right hook: "(the earth) had to come from somewhere. And that is the leap of faith you guys (atheists) make, that it just somehow happened."

Dawkins replied: "You're the one who needs a leap of faith, the onus is on you to say why you believe in something ... you believe in, presumably, the Christian G-d Jesus."

"Jesus is a real guy," I said. "I know what he did. I'm not positive that Jesus is G-d, but I'm throwing in with him rather than throwing in with you guys, because you guys can't tell me how it all got here."

"We're working on it," Dawkins said.

"When you get it," I shot back, "maybe I'll listen."

But the atheists will never get it. The universe and the earth is so complex, so incredibly detailed, that to believe an accidental evolutionary occurrence could have exclusively led to the nature/mankind situation we have now, is some stretch of the imagination. I mean, call me crazy, but the sun always comes up, while man oversleeps all the time.

So bless you, Richard Dawkins, and all the other non-believers. As long as they don't attack people of faith, I have no problem with them. As my eighth-grade teacher Sister Martin once said: "Faith is a gift."

But not everybody gets to open the box. -- Beyond belief, Bill O'Reilly, June 11, 2007

------------------

I wonder if Ayn Rand's Objectivism philosophy gets any play in the secular press any more.

Atheism is chic, it's cool, it's the latest craze. The bookstores are chock full of authors declaring that "G-d Is Not Great," that G-d is a "Delusion," that you are a moron if you believe in the Deity.

The secular press, of course, loves these books, and the reviews are largely admirable. Some of the books are also selling very nicely, as it's been a long time since atheists had much to cheer about.

Polls show that about 90 percent of Americans believe in G-d, but that leaves 30 million folks who just say no to a higher power. If only one percent of that group buys a certain anti-G-d book, you have a best seller.

But the atheist chic trend is not just on the page, Hollywood is involved as well. According to the book "Celebrities in Hell," a number of big stars may be aligned with the universe, but not with the force that some believe created it.

The book quotes the following:

George Clooney: "I don't believe in heaven or hell. I don't know if I believe in G-d."

Angelina Jolie: "There doesn't need to be a G-d for me."

Carrie Fisher: "I love the idea of G-d, but it's not stylistically in keeping with the way I function."

Indeed. Believing in G-d is not very stylish in mainstream media circles these days.

The question then becomes is there anything wrong with that? After all, we have freedom from religion in America -- the Constitution makes it clear that no power in this country has the right to impose religion on anyone.

So the atheists have clear sailing, and I say: Thank G-d.

That's because people of faith should be challenged and think about their beliefs. Critical thinking in all areas makes the mind sharper, and your philosophy stronger.

Thus, I was looking forward to debating the most successful of the atheist authors, Richard Dawkins, who wrote the best seller "The G-d Delusion." Dawkins basically says that science can explain everything on earth, and no one has any direct evidence there is a G-d.

But I stopped him in the fourth round with this right hook: "(the earth) had to come from somewhere. And that is the leap of faith you guys (atheists) make, that it just somehow happened."

Dawkins replied: "You're the one who needs a leap of faith, the onus is on you to say why you believe in something ... you believe in, presumably, the Christian G-d Jesus."

"Jesus is a real guy," I said. "I know what he did. I'm not positive that Jesus is G-d, but I'm throwing in with him rather than throwing in with you guys, because you guys can't tell me how it all got here."

"We're working on it," Dawkins said.

"When you get it," I shot back, "maybe I'll listen."

But the atheists will never get it. The universe and the earth is so complex, so incredibly detailed, that to believe an accidental evolutionary occurrence could have exclusively led to the nature/mankind situation we have now, is some stretch of the imagination. I mean, call me crazy, but the sun always comes up, while man oversleeps all the time.

So bless you, Richard Dawkins, and all the other non-believers. As long as they don't attack people of faith, I have no problem with them. As my eighth-grade teacher Sister Martin once said: "Faith is a gift."

But not everybody gets to open the box. -- Beyond belief, Bill O'Reilly, June 11, 2007

------------------

I wonder if Ayn Rand's Objectivism philosophy gets any play in the secular press any more.

Hey, I'm considered chic.

I knew this atheism thing would pay off sooner of later.

"I stopped him in the fourth round."

Apparently old Bill stepped out for a beer during his science classes.

He seems to think that evolution is responsible for the universe.

What a cutup.

Old Bill is operating on one large argument from incredulity.

Bill is good at stirring up the cretins of our society but he would be better off staying away from science and logic.

Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

I sort of get the feeling that when I tell people that I am "agnostic"... that they take that to mean something like... "he's on the fence. All that he needs is a little push one way or the other and he'll either see the Christian God, or be lost to us forever. "

Not exactly. The Christian God as stated in a literal Genesis is in my world impossible. I think Andy has it about right as a beleiver... if there was any time for God to create, it was at the start of the big bang. Still, I do not beleive in that either... what "agnostic" means to me is to be open to all possibilties. We could live in a world created by science from another dimension. Our "creator" may not even be aware of our existence. Maybe "The Matrix" exists and none of us has the proper blue or red pills handy. All "agnostic" means is that "I don't know". Probablility-wise I'd put odds that the Christian god that many think exists actually existing as being quite low.

After all, Andy... philosophically speaking... if we adapt to what is there, why is what is there so remarkable? See what I mean?

Some of it is probably a reaction against the stupidty of Christian fundamentalists. I know that their are some brilliant theistic philosophers but it seems thats concidered wisdom of man by these people and therefore not worth knowing.

Did you see the opening of the creationist park with Adam&Eve hanging with dinosaurs?

which is consistent with Spinoza's God. But it sure seems quite a bother to go and create all this stuff and complexity without some underlying purpose. Perhaps mankind is a merely a consequence, and we may need to take the red pill to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Originally Posted by scrogdog

Maybe "The Matrix" exists and none of us has the proper blue or red pills handy.

which, of course, is consistent with Descarte's demon. I think we all end up taking the red pill whether we like it or not.

Originally Posted by scrogdog

After all, Andy... philosophically speaking... if we adapt to what is there, why is what is there so remarkable? See what I mean?