July 28, 2012

"Now Democrats have a chance to do something similar to Romney, with his Swiss bank account, his Grand Cayman and Bermuda tax havens, his multiple homes, his $10,000 bet, his friends who own NASCAR teams, and now the six-figure horses his wife imports from Europe. Nothing says 'man of the people' quite like horse ballet."

@Pastafarian:And anyone who thinks equestrian hobbies are effete has never shoveled horse shit. Not in the literal sense, anyway.

I doubt the Romneys did much shoveling themselves. Not that I blame them for that, but let's be realistic. It wouldn't make sense, from an opportunity cost standpoint, for any of them to do that themselves, unless they enjoyed it, which I doubt.

Frankly I'm tired of the "man of the people" shtick, politicians have been enriching themselves through "public service" for longer than I've been alive. Joe Biden is trying right now to make out that his children aren't rich--his children married to surgeons, his children who are lobbyists for MBNA, his children in government.

It hurts my ears like children reading the news on PBS. That's what it is. It bounces too much.

Here's how to fake it, since he's already reading.

Add the frog sounds. More frog sounds than words. Shorten the script to 1/10 but take as long to read it by adding "uh" in rapid succession, "uh" in staccato, so uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh. To create a vocal fry that was talked about here a long time ago. That means taking the whole thing down an octave or two. Romney kept his English octave. tisk. He sounds silly.

The frog-like, bull frog specifically, vocal fry takes up most of the time. As if trying to find the precise word. So very little gets actually stated. Mostly sounds. Very low octave.

Opportunity cost. One of Mitt Romney's hours might be spent doing something that brings in a few hundred thousand dollars. It follows that anything which Mitt Romney might take an hour to do costs him a few hundred thousand dollars, including his leisure time. Consequently, it makes much more sense to hire someone to do those things unless they themselves cost more than a few hundred thousand an hour.

It's true for everyone, really. This is why the vast majority of people do not grow their own food, make their own soap, or manufacture their own pencils. At the Romney level of income it makes little sense to do anything for yourself if someone else can do it cheaper, and almost anyone else IS cheaper no matter how lavishly paid.

The exception is things you do because you like doing them and you need a change. I like to bake my own bread, even if it takes up the better part of a morning for something I can have for less than $2. But at the Romney scale of income a morning baking bread might cost a million dollars. It may be worth it to them, but could you blame them if it wasn't, when you do the same thing on your scale?

It's not his wife's wealth that made Kerry sound effete, it's that he comes across like an arrogant, snobby douche. (plus, he looks all gangly)Romney,whatever else his flaws are, comes across like someone who has'nt let his wealth go to his head.

In 2004 John Kerry thought that he could basically run on the platform of "I'm not George Bush," plus "I have medals from the Vietnam War."

Even today most Democrats still can't get sufficiently over their hatred of Dubya for fighting back when they tried to steal the Florida election, so they don't understand why "I'm not George Bush" was not a guarantee of 110% of the vote right there. But most people want to know what you're going to do that's different.

Then the Swift boat people spoke up, and it turned out that two of Kerry's Purple Hearts came for minor owies that were patched up with band-aids, his Bronze Star came for returning to pick up his best friend after the friend fell overboard -- Kerry having run like hell when an improvised mine exploded against a different boat in the convoy -- and his Silver Star was for attacking an undefended village and destroying their winter food supply with a hand grenade (one of Kerry's owies was a fragment in his butt from his own grenade). We Vietnam-era grunts always felt that the Navy awarded medals back then for not much more than showing up with their shoes polished, but this was ridiculous.

By contrast, in 2012 saying "I'm not Obama" may be more than enough to win the vote of anyone who doesn't write for the Washington Post or the New York Times or draw a check from the DNC.

Or BEING a prancing dressage horse of the media owned by Master Obama?...Happily doing whatever footwork Obama and Axelrods flacks communicate to journalists like Milbank with the slightest nudge of the reins.

Can you imagine that? Say, if your religion that you actually take seriously insists you spend time with your family. Or insist that you do absolutely no work, how expensive it makes that. So Romney standing over a grill of brats is the same thing as burning cash and knowing that puts an actual price on the time spent with his family. That's awesome. My religion forces me to cede $10,000 or whatever it is just to be with these little dummkopfs so this had better be good.

I would think that his wife may have let him know when the horse is competing.

She's staying there to watch the thing.

I bet the ratings for dressage will be the highest ever.

You know the people that judge those things are totally bitchy and it's all about who's horse mated with who's horse and which horse has the biggest hog. Probably similar to dog shows and other venues where fags compete against each other.

Lot of hugs and kisses on each cheek at the competitions. I could probably get into it. But you can't cuddle with a horse like you can with a dog. I want to cuddle.

All of a sudden garage mahal cares terribly about Vietnam service, of course. Let's pretend he actually does, instead of trying to play "gotcha".

Well, sir, people who were married with children, at that time, were routinely not drafted. Mormons of draft age are nearly always married with children.

In the largely Mormon community in which I grew up, this fact was resented by non-Mormons who were not married with children when they were draft eligible, including my own folks. But of course they had had the same option.

Mitt Romney was in college in 1965-66, France in 1967-68, married in 1969, kids starting in 1970.

Good luck with ginning up the fully consistent and fairly applied rage, garage. Nobody here buys what you're selling.

Once I said to my Democratic friends, John Kerry walked into a bar and the bartender asked, "Kerry, why the long face?" One found me hilarious and the other fell into a screed having nothing at all to do with Kerry that separated us permanently. And the moral of that anecdote is.

I find the term "effete" inapt re Romney. There are many epithets one might use to disparage men who've built their fortune through business (i.e. through a history of effective action). "Avaricious,""ruthless," "rapacious," "predatory," "mercenary," "vampiric," for example. After all, Romney/ Bain is supposedly guilty of vulture or vampire capitalism, not pansy-ass capitalism.

"I mean, I do think at a certain point you've made enough money"-- but we're still talking about money being made. Wringing blood and tears from the proletariat, but nevertheless through action. Nothing "effete" about that. A robber baron is not "effete" (though his descendants may be).

Now, acquiring a fortune through marriage… that's something else.

If you have a sugar mama, you didn't build that.

Besides, all the other characterizations of Romney (besides vulture/ vampire capitalist) his political opponents have thrown out there-- dorky Mormon bully robot-- don't cohere with "effete" either.

Did he? I thought he threw them over the wall? Oh wait, those were ribbons,not medals. And other peoples medals just not his. To be honest, the most we can say is that he had some medals at some point.

I am an animal lover and like horses but I got bit by one once and was thrown off one once so I am a little nervous around them.

I was on some horse ride and the lead horse took off and the rest of them followed right up to this fence. The horses stopped at the fence and many of the riders were thrown off. It was chaos. My brooks brothers riding pants were torn and my hair was a disaster. I landed on some bush and still have a scar on my perfect face. I was supposed to have a date with a really hot guy that night but had to cancel because my face was a mess. Fucking horse. I was scared shitless.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I b elieve that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his contin ued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

I note that when he said "Je m'appelle Mitt Romney," he made the French "r" in Romney, but he didn't pronounce his first name "Meat."

As expected, he knows the words but not the music - his french ain't got no accent - which is like listening to a really bad rapper without a beat. The frogs were probably howling.

Will attacking Team Mitt work? Depends on what they come with:

Once someone - Mitt or Obama - oversteps the boundaries of this apparent Gentlemen's Agreement on taboo subjects, what'll shock the American public (or certain sectors of it) about either candidate is wiiiide open. All it depends on is the framing, and both seem clumsy there, but something could stick or develop legs of it's own.

And then there's the very real possibility that, with so much to choose from, something could pop out of nowhere - like Mitt's latest unforced error, the "disconcerting" gaffe in England. Mitt's head is mostly filled with memorabilia from The MormonLand Gift Shop, so it may be only a matter of time until he unwittingly decides to show us what he's got.

Another question is if he's prepared to defend himself (beyond attempting to glide on his supporter's goodwill and screams of religious McCarthyism) which, without a proper vetting to prepare him, I doubt. It's pretty obvious by now that Mitt isn't very good on his back foot, so only the slightest push will make him stumble, and, especially if it's coordinated, he could go down.

Unlike the theaters of Broadway, Mormonism's pretty hard to defend in the real world, so Mitt's definitely vulnerable.

And, considering the desperation of the Obama campaign, that vulnerability should prove too juicy to pass up,...

The ribbons or medals or whatever that Kerry threw over the White House fence were bought at a surplus store.He has still got his own displayed on his office wall (or at least did when he was a U.S. Attorney in Boston).

I don't understand how opinion writers have such a bad understanding of politics. The reason Kerry was painted as an effete New Englander was because he opponent was portrayed as a down to earth Texan, a guy who loves baseball and though he speaks Spanish fluently, has trouble with the English language.

Romney is very much an elite, but so is President Obama. Romney's the monied elite, Obama, for all his basketball playing, is very much a modern leftist intellectual. You can contrast the visions of the two men quite easily, but the "elite-ness" is readily apparent in either, so can't be used as a hammer against one or the other. Then there are these stories about how down to earth Romney actually is in regards to his neighbors and fellow Mormons (the people who actually interact with him outside of politics), so it might not even work in the first place. He's no Andrew Jackson, but he's no Bloomberg either.

John Kerry, who served in Vietnam, was not made to look anything. He is what he is. And so is Romney.

If Romney can be said to have some effete and/or metrosexual aspects to him, that is because he does, not because anyone makes him that way.

Backfire? With whom? It is not as if everyone does not already know that the Democrats are obnoxious and petty creeps and thugs. Obama's own condescending contemptuousness and jerkery were well on display last time around. They still voted for him.

Try again lefties. You can't flyspeck absolutely everything Romney says and does and expect anyone to pay attention. You actually have to be patient and wait for something substantial, instead of being hysterical and reactive. What Millbank forgets is Kerry assholey, pompous "Don't you know who I am?!?" persona that killed him. Not his knowledge of french.

None of those behaviors would alone qualify a man as "effete." It seems that Milbank is attempting to manipulate perception through an arbitrarily constructed reality.

Besides, conservatives and libertarians, on principle, do not begrudge the wealth and success of others. While this tactic may serve to undermine the footing of liberals and progressives, it will fail, in the majority, to destabilize his competing interests.

John Kerry was intentionally modeling himself after an aristocrat from a Swiss finishing school, the better to socially climb and marry into wealth. He had that Brideshead Revisited above it all effeteness oozing out. His French accent is fluent Parisian with all of the emotions included.

Mitt Romneyhas a wooden Dudley DoRight persona from a Mormon true believer's family that for religious beliefs had to hide out across the border in Mexico. His French accent is as bad as it comes and totally lacks emotional content... just like his English lacks emotional content.

Millbank may not be dumb, but in this opinion piece he is deaf and blind.

The "F" in John F. Kerry stand for Forbes, yes those Forbes's, and it is my understanding that John Kerry is about in the same wealth bracket as Romney - though inherited, not self-made - without counting any of his wife's Heinz money - though, of course it helps with the living expenses and upkeep of the planes and yachts.

What stuck with people and made the Swift Boat campaign so successful were two aspects:

1. The group was formed by his peer officers...boat skippers...who almost unanimously said Kerry was a dirtball. Kerrys defense that his crew of enlisteds, many who he had done favors for, liked him...didn't cut it with Vets. If his true peers, many with no partisan axe to grind thought he was a dirtball, odds were he was a dirtball.

2. Kerrys whole "Hero" narrative was undercut by his Ghenghis Khaaaaan speech, photos of him and a hot looking Jane Fonda together, his trip to Paris to meet with N Vietnamese, and his throwing medals. The dissonance was too much for many independent voters to stomach.

-------------The Dems do not have that ammo with Romney...so they have to resort to good old fashion Jewish Bolshevik/Brownshirt character assassination and smear.

1. Bain Capital's partners, the Olympic Officials working with him, even Dems in powerful places in Mass while he was governor (HIS peers) - do not frame Romney as a dirtball.

2. Unlike Kerry's "Hero in uniform" narrative, the facts do not support the Democrat version of Romney as an unsuccessful leader. So the "Narrative" turns to class warfare. Romney was TOO successful and he doesn't care about the average Joe.

All you need to know about Kerry...read the Eau Claire Leader story about his visit there in 2004. He went to the heyseeds (somebody needs to tell him that Western Wisc is a mix of college towns and Twin Cities suburbs) and talked about his "trusty John Deere" and "crawling on my stomach with my shotgun hunting deer".

I have to say, owning an Olympic ballet horse sounds like a he's-not-like-us extravagance, far more than a jet ski, which tons of red-blooded Americans have ridden and more would like to, and much much more than a car elevator, which is an unreasonable extravagance but is at least a cool gadget.

The only way owning a ballet horse isn't a big negative is if you own an Olympic medal-winning ballet horse. Then it's just badass.

I do appreciate the irony as I recall a time when liberals decried our involvement in Vietnam as a black spot on the nation's history second only to slavery. Now suddenly its a badge of honor and a disqualifier for anyone who didn't serve.

To be fair, there was the fear that the French would surrender Paris to the Vietnamese. Mitt was there just in case there was any fighting involved. In fact, I would argue that Mitt's presence there back then is the only reason the French don't speak Vietnamese today.

Romney and Kerry have areas where they are very similar, but the major theme of this election is economics, and the two men could not be more different in that regard. Romney is much more of a contrast to Kerry than Bush was.

While we're on a trip down Memory Lane, may we relive the moment when John Kerry went into a grocery store in Ohio and asked the proprietor, "Can I get me a hunting license here?" You can't make this stuff up.

have to say, owning an Olympic ballet horse sounds like a he's-not-like-us extravagance

Not really. Lots of people who have grown up barrel racing or hunter/jumping have dealt with the expense of having a horse.

Its not as big a deal as you make it out to be. Its a middle class hobby for much of the Heartland and the South. Besides, I think Ann Romney is co-owner of the Olympic horse. Again, not a big deal - my jumper coaches were former Olympians.

We would all get our girl a pony if we had a few hundred million in the bank... whether we wanted to or not. Nobody should be criticizing that. If he didn't get her a pony, that would prove he was heartless and stingy.

The only way owning a ballet horse isn't a big negative is if you own an Olympic medal-winning ballet horse. Then it's just badass.

Heh.

I guess I can intellectually grasp why people might see the dressage horse as a negative, but I don't intuitively get it. OK, expensive hobbies and toys are apt to stir anti-rich resentment. But a horse is different from a toy. A horse is a beautiful, majestic animal which evokes positive emotions in many people-- e.g. in people who were once horse-crazy girls, like me, but not only horse-crazy girls-- that a jet ski or car elevator or wind-surfing equipment does not.

And in this case, the horse belongs to and is beloved by the candidate's wife-- and is directly linked to the highly sympathetic story of her battle with MS.

I don't know. Seems to me a horse (let alone an Olympics-competing horse) might, if anything, help with the so-called gender gap.

Everyone understands the bad optics Moochie has with her constant vacationing. Even Zero tried to make a joke of it when he went to Cartagena. I wonder what sort of coverage Ann Romney is going to have in a press that despises her husband. I'm wiiling to bet it won't be pretty.

I'm also willing to bet she's a big girl, and can take whatever they dish out. And that will make the press even madder :-)

@Titus

As a child, my Mom and Dad took us horse back riding. Mom, being a Yankee had never been before. Her horse got half way across the creek we were fording, and sat down in it. Dumping her ass over teakettle into said creek. As kids are won't to do, my sister and I thought that was terribly amusing. So did my Dad. She...not so much.

While Tg says Mitt's "French accent is as bad as it comes and totally lacks emotional content... just like his English lacks emotional content," I always hear and see the emotional content - and it's fear. Mitt's wide-eyed and stammering demeanor are the behaviors of an adulterous man afraid of being found out, because he's thinking on two tracks, and - through extreme compartmentalization - hoping to keep one (the contradictory Mormon automaton) out of sight.

I do appreciate the irony as I recall a time when liberals decried our involvement in Vietnam as a black spot on the nation's history second only to slavery. Now suddenly its a badge of honor and a disqualifier for anyone who didn't serve.

Only in the sense the Lefties can use the word, chickenhawk.

As Iraq proved, they still can't wait to call American Soldiers baby killers.

The thing about Kerry windsurfing is that it was used in an effective ad that criticized Kerry on grounds that were perfectly relevant in the campaign.

Great link. Maybe part of why that ad worked is that it got inside the heads of the Democrats. They could find it to be an ad hominem on Kerry according to the blanks they filled in, blanks they filled in against other people, cf. Obama. That clued people in seeing the ad to view Kerry that way. Left alone, it would have, I don't know, just been an ad featuring a guy shifting position. Now they've got an opportunity to prove to the stupid 'mericans how the Republican guy is too, that is possesses the characteristics the Dems assigned to Kerry. But unless you're down with the Dems, the response is kinda, 'Huh, so (talks language pretty good for an 'merican white boy).'

John Bragg wrote:The only way owning a ballet horse isn't a big negative is if you own an Olympic medal-winning ballet horse. Then it's just badass.

Please don't use the term ballet horse. There's no such thing. There is such a thing as a "musical ride" but it can't be described as ballet. Madonna dances better than any horse, and wouldn't compare her leaden clodhopping to a pas de deux.

ricpic wrote:Is dressage what those Lippizaners do?

Yes and no. Dressage just means training. Every well-trained horse, not matter what discipline - hunter/jumper, roping, cutting, police work, racing, even driving in harness is a "dressage" horse in the literal sense. (Western trainers are now even using classical dressage lingo and methods in their training regimens)

What Ann Romney does is the kind of dressage which gets it's highest expression in the Olympics. That she routinely pays a high six figures for a horse means that she's buying what we call a "push-button" horse -- i.e. highly trained, on the bit and responsive to the seat and aids -- which suggests to me that her admiration of dressage exceeds her ability as a rider. Most of the horses one sees at Prix St George level and above are German warmbloods - Oldenburgs, Holsteiners, Wurttemburgers, Trakehners, etc. but that's just a prejudice based on the fact that German riders and trainers have dominated the sport for a century. Any sound and fit horse can do dressage. One of the most impressive horses I've seen lately is an American Saddlebred (not a breed associated with the sport) called Harry Callahan.

The horse of the Spanish Riding School in Vienna are all Lipizzaner stallions. What they do is called "High School" dressage, which involves movements (pasade, levade and capriole - the "airs above the ground" which derive from 16th century cavalry training, and work in hand) which are not part of sport dressage.

Few things better illustrate how big the gap between white working class Americans and coastal elites. What was so funny and yet so lame about Dukakis and Kerry was their cynically aping what their Harvard American Studies Ph.Ds told them was typical middle American language and mannerisms. The Ivy League street agitator is even worse. It's like he's from another planet. Romster gaffes and is indeed clueless about a lot of things but it comes across as being without guile on his part. It's just hard to feel badly toward someone that's just being themselves unless you're an unhinged partisan hater. Like say Dana Milbank.

A real french man would've said that in a minute or maybe 45 seconds. Romney comes off a dork and/or a "square" but never effete.

Jacques L'effete Kerry always comes off as a phony elitist. He threw his medals over the fence before he kept them. I who forget his weirdo Billionaire wife. Only in Massachusetts or New York could someone like that be Senator for life.

You will get the President we elect and it won't be because of your preferences. He's up by 5 now in Rasmussen and the electorate has been exposed to a ton of attacked on his wealth, success, homes, etc.

Four years ago Obama compared Americans to Europeans, talking about how so many of them speak more than one language while most of us only speak English. Well, here's Romney speaking a second language but in a way that makes you feel that, with a little time and instruction, you could do it as well.

Crackmeister, how do you compare the manliness of Charlie Sheen to Romney's?

Looking at each in his own context, Sheen wins, hands down. He ain't hiding. He's not even afraid to look like a fool.

Sheen's values may not be yours or mine, or even always right, but they're (usually) identifiable and not some totally embarrassing hand-me-down, like Romney's.

Mitt can never claim to be "his own man," which is a major component of manliness.-----

If you judge Sheen's inebriated professments a la Rooster Cogburn's straight talk, so be it. On the other hand, there are different types of manliness, one of which I see in Romney. A forthrightness that is the fruit of good living and adherence to the duty toward wife and children. Yes, I realize it could all be a politcial act, but it seems like the real deal, and a much more solid back story than that of Obama's in the 2008 lead-up.

For the record, for those pundits who've not spent long hours every day with horses, in various venues and activities, from Three Day Eventing to Cutting/Working Cow Horse trials....puleeze, don't call something related to horses "effete" until you've both tried it and succeeded.

Let me see the snotty pundit in a 12x16 stall with a "fresh" 16.5 hand Hanoverian or Irish-bred Hunter about 6 years old, then out to warm up and thence over a practice course of fixed obstacles.

Yeah, let me observe that and then I might listen to a pundit's opinions.

I have to say, owning an Olympic ballet horse sounds like a he's-not-like-us extravagance, far more than a jet ski,

ANN Romney owns a partnership interest (1/3 I believe) in a business that owns multi million dollar horses, trains, breeds and enters into competition. It is a freaking business. BUSINESS enterprise, that happens to be connected to an activity that Mrs. Romney enjoys.

If the business were dog breeding instead and entering animals into the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show.....would that make everyone have less of a case of the vapors? Or is it because it it horses? Or is just because the Democrats have nothing but class warfare and class envy to drum up to cover up the piss poor job Obama has done as President and to try to throw up chaff to disguise his agenda of destroying the United States?

@ Rick: I was comparing Romney to Romney, not Romney to Kerry. A few weeks ago the big "Romney gaffe" was a picture of him riding on a jet-ski, which was hailed as a Kerry-windsurfing moment. It succeeded so well that you've already forgotten.

I didn't think so, first because Romney was dressed in shorts and a polo shirt instead of a spandex bodysuit, and second because I'm pretty sure 100x more Americans have been on a jet ski than have been windsurfing.

Quaestor, I apologize for using the clearly insensitive term "ballet horse", I was repeating the description I'd been given. I cannot make head nor tail of your explanation, though.

Multiple homes: Yeah that will really ding Romney. Everybody knows he is wealthy. I don't think this is going to go very far. It worked on McCain because the guy was trying the whole "aw shucks I'm one of you guys" routines. I doubt it will work on Romney. And does Obama really want to get the conversation started on real estate issues? Rezko anybody?

$10,000 bet: yeah the easy counter is to point out that when people go to college they're making a $150,000 to $250,000 bet. Buying a house? Same thing.

Nascar teams? ... there are no words.

"six-figure horses": Which will do precisely what? A lot of the women I know are utterly mad about horses. When I look at a horse I see an animal that craps by the ton. They see something completely different.

And I'm sure that attack will work because; yeah every guy is totally frigging responsible for whatever his wife gets into.

yashu wrote:That gait toward the end, when it moves as if in slow motion, suspended in the air... wondrous.

That's exactly what it is, it's called suspension, in this case the horse is literally bouncing on it's tendons and ligaments, like pogo-sticks. The gait you're seeing at the end is called a passage trot -- i.e. a collected trot with suspension. If the same trot is done in place it's called a piaffe.

A moving horse is either collected or extended. Extended means stretched out with the weight distribution greater the forelegs, and the center of gravity in the shoulders. Collection means the opposite, with the weight equally distributed and the center of gravity directly below the rider's ideal position. One of the goals of dressage is to develop in the horse the mental and physical agility needed to transition from extension to collection and back again with perfect ease.

Another goal is "straightening" the horse. Not a very good term, but it encapsulates an idea. Every horse, like every human, is "handed". In a man it means the limbs on one side are stronger, more agile and controllable than on the other. The same is true in horses. In our case being right-handed means we can't write legibly with the left hand. In a horse it mean weaken and stiffness on one side. Mount a green horse and try to ride a small circle. The horse is markedly more comfortable and willing going one direction than the other. Ride a smaller circle and the horse can just manage it going the "right" way. Go the wrong way and the horse can't even turn a circle, he'll do back-to-back u-turns at best. Dressage aims to correct this tendency, to develop the weak side of the horse, to make him equally balanced, agile and comfortable turning left or right, cantering left or right, and tracking left or right.

Would it make a difference if it were dogs instead of horses? Probably. Dogs don't require billyuns and billyuns of dollars to buy a share in a dog combine. Plus more folks have dogs than horses. Just as more people watch NASCAR than know NASCAR owners.

P.S. I thought we were supposed to be a classless society. It always astounds me when Repubs cry "class warfare."

And the whole "Karl Rove Evil Genius Swiftboat" nonsense. It galls me to this day that Rove got credit for a political ploy that is anything but. Like the TEA party it is exactly what it appeared to be; a group of people decided to get together and say "this will not be so".

And any clear reading of Kerry's Vietnam service shows he did everything he could to get out of there ASAP. And then rode those laurels like a donkey for years.

"Fluent French? Ah, thanks, but no thanks. And Romney spent the Vietnam War in France? Seriously, come on."

And remember when Bill Clinton spent the Vietnam War in Britain? And how military service suddenly wasn't all that important and it was more better to have someone who was a scholar and .. LOOK! Donuts!

Yeah so shut the hell up.

I had enough of that liberal Democrat bullshit the first time around with Bill Clinton. Then with John Kerry military service was suddenly a Big Fucking Deal.

Now we got Obama in office and military service doesn't even come up. So take the "served in France" and shove up your ass; sideways.

John Bragg wrote:[I] apologize for using the clearly insensitive term "ballet horse", I was repeating the description I'd been given. I cannot make head nor tail of your explanation, though.

Not insensitive, just mistaken. Whoever gave you that term, "ballet horse", either intended it as a sneering dismissal of Ann Romney, or he didn't really know what dressage is and therefore should have kept his yap shut, which is sage advice for everybody at all times.

I've written a bit more which I hope will clarify a bit. Please forgive my typos. I find I can't proof read myself until I look about at my work after at least ten minutes.

P.S. I thought we were supposed to be a classless society. It always astounds me when Repubs cry "class warfare."

leslyn, you obviously misunderstand the use of the term "class warfare" on the right. Almost always it refers to "class warfare" rhetoric, which is an ideological creature of the left: rhetoric that postulates a division between classes (e.g. between "working men and women" and "millionaires and billionaires"; between businesses/ corporations, i.e. "owners," and workers/ employees; between the 1% and 99%, etc.) and a necessary antagonism between them (the view that their interests are in conflict, in a zero sum game).

The point of the rhetoric is to get the audience to identify as a "class" vs. another "class," and to foment indignation and resentment. Cf. John Edwards' "two Americas." Or Warren's infamous speech (echoed by Obama): businesses depend on roads etc. that "the rest of us" pay for. The implication being that "they" owe "us."

When a conservative speaks of "class warfare" he/she is implicitly putting the term (the Marxist concepts of "class" and "class conflict") in quotes-- cf. "war on women." They are not assuming those leftist premises, but using shorthand to name them.

Dems should change their symbol from a donkey to a green eyed monster. Its especially funny and ironic considering most democrats would easily be in the top 1%, and yet are spouting all this bullcrap populist rhetoric. Like for example Johnny Edswards talking about two Americas while living in a huge mansion. OR like Al Gore talking about carbon offsets while living in a huge mansion. Or like... you get the idea.

I do believe the Democrats may win votes on the "class warfare" aspect of urbanized liberals and progressive Jews doing the Obama spin in the media insinuated that horse ownership, horse riding, young girls wanting a pony now grown up -----are Elitist and have no place in a horse-free Obama Democrat Party.A lot of horse lovers happen to be Democrat and independent. Romney just need to say something to the effect that the economic crisis is so bad, he will not divert his efforts into any Right to Life idiocy like abortion and the Terri Schiavo Fiasco in his 1st term. But will appoint strict Constitutional interpretation judges that will not legislate from the bench or allow Obamites to tax horse ownership out of existence.

I think Yashu pointed that out earlier.

And thanks to Chickenlit for the reminder of one of Gen Pattons finest red-blooded American moments was rescuing the Lipizzaner horses from Soviet red Army stewpots. Patton was not particularly thought of as elite, or effete...though he came from a fairly well-off family.

Which could be spun nicely to a little ad of Patton quoted on his love of horses and dressage and how he saved a wondrous herd....from socialists...that think eating horses was even a tastier meal than dog. Don't elect Obama! He might want to eat those prancing horses and little girls ponies!

Dana Milbank has his finger on the pulse of America. Nobody understands "the people" quite like him. I'm sure "the people" are also ravenous consumers of his column, and I'll be hearing all about "effete Mitt Romney" at the water cooler on Monday. This is a narrative in the making, folks.

(By the way, I'm sure when "the people" hear "horse ballet," they picture horses in tutus trained to stand upright and dance. That's the kind of thing "the people" a) assume Mitt Romney is rich enough to afford and b) think is totally fucking awesome, so hell yes he has my vote. Will there be a horse ballet at the inauguration? They'll need to find a new prima ballerina since Sarah Jessica Parker is on Team Obama.)

There are different types of manliness, one of which I see in Romney. A forthrightness that is the fruit of good living and adherence to the duty toward wife and children.

Really? Romney has a family? Hadn't noticed.

Honey, save it, I live in Utah. I know charter members in the "prosperity" sweepstakes. Including a few who didn't get or need a goofy cult's belief system to have achieved it. As a matter of fact, day-to-day, protecting their families FROM that goofy cult is one of their top priorities. In time it may be yours.

Those are Men. They know all about Romney's all-important "good life" trappings, his play at "spiritual warfare" on behalf of his cult, but what they care about is his character vs. cluelessness ratio - and they're really, really, really not aboard with The Billy Graham Look.

Remember California's Proposition 8? The Mormon church pulled out all the stops to pass that proposition, which would forbid same-sex marriage, and it called upon all Mormons to cough up and donate, even those who were not California voters. Those who were hesitant to do so (often the amounts demanded were thousands of dollars per family) were simply and subtly reminded of their "temple covenants." And they all understood that the church was calling in the chits on the oaths to obey, to sacrifice, and to consecrate whatever the church demanded of them.

If Mitt's hiding secrets is now a sign of "forthrightness," in time, all tales of Mormon strong-arming will be reframed as a symbol of LDS "spirituality" and "compassion" for the "community."

Anybody else remember Kerry talking about how taking a snowboarding or windsurfing weekend was no big deal, lots of 'working people' do it, it's only, what, 'X'hundred dollars for the flight and so on?

And the tax dodging. and on, and on, and they think WE made him look like an effete snob?

That's interesting, Quaestor, I didn't know that. The same thing happens in skiing. One direction of turn is stronger and preferred. So a little trick is to get up there and do a bunch of weaker side turns before hitting the black diamond runs. Depending on the place. The run difficulty classifications are relative to the specific place.

What can I say. I'd rather have someone else as the candidate. An actual conservative if nothing else because I'm still worried about what Romney will do in the White House if elected.

And it really bothers me that a wealthy man who has pursued the Presidency through at least 2 elections and 8 years seems so incapable of actually running a campaign. You would think if he were so ambitious for the office he would have spent that time preparing for the campaign. You would think he would hire the best trainers, advisers and such. You would think he would have put in the effort to drill himself with debating prep so he could destroy any opponent in a debate.

It bothers me that a man who should be at the top of his game after 8 damn years seems at times to hardly be in the game at all.

And those goofy campaign staffers! When you have 8 years to set up a campaign staff why are there people there who seem to accomplish nothing more than repeatedly stuffing their feet in their mouths?

Except, of course, Kerry didn't spend 6 years in the Navy. Including his reserve commitment, he was supposed to. Someone who showed up as shaggy as he did to testify before Congress was clearly not doing his reserve duty at the time.

Why did Kerry never release his military records (despite repeated promises that he would do so)? Most likely answer is that he was separated from the Navy without an honorable discharge (the equivalent, as I understand it, for officers, to a less than honorable discharge for enlisted). Remember, apparently Kerry wasn't covered by Carter's amnesty, and needed the intervention of Sen. Teddy Kennedy to get such, and intervention again to get his medals back (though former Sec. Lehman disputed ever granting such). My guess is that at the time that he testified before Congress, he was still officially in the Reserves, but not participating, AWOL, and his testimony got him booted, with extreme prejudice. We will probably never know though, as he seems to have no interest in keeping his promises.

The rank cynicism there of the Dems as to Bush (43) National Guard service was mind-blowing. Bush (43) did finish his TANG service, and did get the officer's equivalent of an honorable discharge, at the time, even though he may have cut some corners. Kerry had an almost identical commitment, and never even tried to complete it. Yet, the MSM, etc., on the left kept going after Bush and his TANG service, totally ignoring Kerry's total lack thereof.

Crack pointing out that he lives in Utah probably explains his opposition to Mormons and the LDS Church. I too have been a gentile in the promised land there, and you know that you are an outsider.

It may not have been as bad for me. The firm I was with still had a distinct majority of non-LDS partners, which we could get away with, because we had a somewhat national practice. The lower down the pecking order, the higher the Mormon participation, with the mailroom, receptionists, etc. being 100% LDS.

Used to be somewhat funny. The non-Mormons would flaunt their non-Mormonism. Open bar with top shelf booze at the functions, etc. The most enlightening time though was when two guys made partner, and we packed most everyone (about 50 or so) into the conference room. Trays went around with fruit juice and champagne, and everyone staked out their side. I, not being Mormon, picked the latter, and sipped on it, despite not being a drinker, and routinely skipping such at my own family gatherings.

I say this as I get ready to head south from NW Montana, down through Idaho, and most likely through SLC. Don't know if I am heading west to Boise (and skipping Utah itself) and thence NW Nevada, or east to Colorado. (I have a client on I-15 in MT whom I want to visit, otherwise, I probably wouldn't head that far east). But in any case, will be driving through a lot of Mormon country this coming week. Turns out that the Mormons settled pretty much all the way from SLC to Butte along the I-15 corridor in the 2nd half of the 19th Century, as they were the ones transporting much of the cargo for the MT mines (and, of course, they settled the other direction on I-15 too, all the way to Las Vegas).

Mostly though, you don't notice. Mormon country is pretty much like the rest of the west, until you get another oops moment. Like last winter stopping at McDonald's, and they didn't have regular ice tea - and I remembered that I when I lived in SLC, I had three places w/i a 5 mile radius of work and home mapped out that actually had ice tea in their self-serve machines. Probably the biggest give-away is the number of distinctive LDS churches - all apparently built on common floor plans, and sometimes you can see several at once (I think I saw 4 at one time in St. George, including the old one that actually looks like a traditional 19th century church).

As to horses - a GF, who does dressage, but on cold-bloods (and, started much too late to truly be competitive) pointed out that one of the top U.S. riders was recently permanently disabled - apparently as a result of not wearing a helmet. Apparently can't even sit in a saddle by herself anymore. And, two of the seven times that this friend has shattered her ankle were horse related (1700 lb horses can do that to you).

Mitt Romney though has indicated that he isn't really isn't into dressage, and when he rides, it is western style. Which I fully concur with. I grew up with western riding, and always thought that eastern riding and tack was contrived and silly. But, I started riding on my grandparents' girls' camp, and they had started riding growing up on farms in Oklahoma at a time when almost no one had cars, and horses were their primary form of transportation. Western was practical. Eastern was not.

Finally, I think that the reason that this isn't going to stick is that Romney is just not the type who has to look good when he participates in sports. I know plenty of people who have to have the right outfits for each sport. Most of them are women. And, maybe, that was Kerry's problem. You go to the gym, and most of the guys there are wearing beat up gym clothing, or worse. Often, something that they could work in the yard in. The women though are mostly in their stylish workout outfits, likely different than what they would, say, jog in. And, definitely not something that they would work in the garden in.

Kerry though apparently does have the different outfits for the different sports, and they are stylish in the way that women wear stylish clothes to participate in these sports. For example, almost all of the guys I see in wet suits have them in one color - most often black, but maybe blue, etc. That is the manly thing to do.

Think of the pictures of GWB riding his mountain bike, and Kerry riding his street bike. Kerry is in his high fashion street bike outfit, and Bush is in a T-shirt and shorts, or something like that. That is what guys do, and not what Kerry does.

Kerry looked effete, because effete is feminine, and his outfits looked like the sort of things that a woman would wear, or, the sorts of outfits that a woman would pick out for her man. Either way, not a good look for someone trying to out-man a sitting war President.

Would it make a difference if it were dogs instead of horses? Probably. Dogs don't require billyuns and billyuns of dollars to buy a share in a dog combine. Plus more folks have dogs than horses. Just as more people watch NASCAR than know NASCAR owners.

P.S. I thought we were supposed to be a classless society. It always astounds me when Repubs cry "class warfare."

Thus am I relieved of my illusions.

It's spelled 'billions'. Even an ignoramous like me knows that.Most people that own horses aren't rich. For most horse owners its a hobby like having a boat or an RV, They have a horse instead.We went with children. They're much more expensive than horses.

Thanks, Crack, I didn't know this stuff about the Mormon religion, and I'd like to say that they're probably like most religions and don't take the rites that seriously, like some Catholics. But Mormons are different. Ya know, caffeine actually is a mind-altering substance :)

Yes, I can see that the ultimate gotcha question to be asked by a debate moderator would be:

"Would you feel bound by your sacred oath to obey the law of consecration that you made in the endowment ceremony?"

"My guess is that at the time that he testified before Congress, he was still officially in the Reserves, but not participating, AWOL, and his testimony got him booted, with extreme prejudice."

My belief has been that the catalyst was his private meeting with the North Vietnamese delegation in Paris. At the time of the meeting we were still at war with North Vietnam and Kerry was still a serving officer in the Reserves.

That a private individual without prior authorization from the US government is treating with the enemy is bad enough. For an officer in the USNR that is pretty bad.

Also I agree about western vs eastern saddles. When I was a kid I'd spend my summers at my aunt's house and she had ponies and horses. I was kept busy cleaning out the stables but I also got to do some barrel racing. That's a great way for a kid to spend a summer.