If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

[UPDATED] What are we doing?!

Update 4/8/2013

Ok folks, exciting changes happening today (may already be live as I type):

- All rifles being reverted to values they were at ship
- Stun on smoke grenades being converted to match melee stun (reduces stun from 2 seconds to 0.3 seconds)
- Stumble after falling from high distance also getting slight reduction in length (ongoing effort to remove bad stun issues from game)
- Smoke martyr being removed for reals (didn't take last time)

Thanks for your input!

So, it appears that one or two of you have noticed a couple changes to the game recently. I'm long winded, but I'll get to a list of changes below. Skip ahead if you're impatient, it won't hurt my feelings...

We hit this strange point of convergance where we had people off at GDC, and out for the Holiday weekend, and our DLC hit earlier than expected, and... anyway, enough excuses. It was a great opportunity to make some updates that could reach a broad audience, but it happened before we had a real chance to engage with you guys. This obviously led to some questions, and in a few cases, some good old fashioned rage. I like passion.

We want Gears to be a "living product". Over time, it will grow, and it will change. It will make mistakes, and (hopefully!) it will learn from them and be better because of it. Just like me and (dare I say it) you! But the main thing here is that we want this Gears to be a conversation. From the outset, we've wanted to make a game for you, and one that we'd want to play with you. So I'll say up front that if you ever have questions, concerns, or just want to chat Gears... you can absolutely feel free to contact me. Will I respond to every message I get? Nope! Will I read each and every single one? Yep! Raczilla, Flak, and our amazing team of community mods are all there, too. They want to talk to you. This isn't an invitation to spam, or harass, or complain. This is an invitation to start a real dialogue on how we can make Gears better. Together.

Still with me? Sweet! Here's the promised list. Apologies for not getting it out earlier:

- Execution now available as a gametype. Execution, I missed you. Desperately. Welcome back!
- Under the hood, Warzone has always been called TDM; this led to a bug in the menus where Warzone was actually showing up as an available option. No, it was not Warzone, it was a broken version of TDM thanks to a typo. Typo fixed, Warzone no longer showing up. (Sorry if we got your hopes up!)
- New map released. Look for Haven in standard MP!
- Mortar wasn't working properly on clients, so it was replaced by Torquebow (only affects Gondola). May be addressed properly in future patch.
- Frags were appearing in Execution under some conditions, so all base Frag pickups replaced by Smokes. This, too, is a temporary fix to keep the game moving, and will be addressed properly in a future TU. This also affects only Gondola. Poor Gondola has had a rough week.
- Boomshot appears to be horribly OP in Execution. Boomshot has therefore been temporarily removed from Execution gametype. Would love feedback here.
- Smoke nade count reduced from 2 down to 1 in Execution.
- Removed the ability to martyr smoke grenades. Executions are now fun in Execution again.
- Smoke cringe duration slightly reduced.
- Shortened lifespan of Stim grenades in standard MP. Overrun/Survival unchanged.
- Value of XP in all prize boxes increased.

OK, here's the more controversial changes. Feedback appreciated:

- Shortened the melee stun significantly, and added a very, very short delay after melee swing with the Gnasher. Note that Sawed Off now inherits from the Gnasher, so this change will affect both. Melee was getting more kills than all other weapons in the game combined, excluding the Gnasher.

- Lancer buffed (about a 15% increase). My gut says that's a bit much - and Pete is wary as well - but we wanted to let it play out a bit and see how it shifted the balance of gameplay. In the first week of release, approx. 80% of all kills in MP were from the Gnasher. (Were you one of the people who claimed this was going to be a Rifle only game? Eat your words! :P) I would love to hear your thoughts as to whether this is because the Gnasher is the preferred weapon (not a problem) or if the Gnasher is the only way to play because balance is off (a problem). Obviously, the true answer lies somewhere in the middle, but we should still look at it.

- Retro and HB both given a very, very, small buff (1 bullet fewer to kill with Retro, and a fraction of a bullet less (math is fun!) for the HB) to help them hang with the new and improved (?) Lancer.

I'm hoping to avoid gut reactions and assumptions here. Instead, we want to make decisions based of actual experience and data. So: Go ye forth and play. Then play more. THEN give us feedback. We'd love to hear it.

I like the changes with the lancer and retro I think it makes them more useful. My only question is the delay that happens with the gnasher after a melee happens prevents you from double melee or from firing the gnasher or both? And does not that give the person you hit with the melee first a slight advantage? Or is the delay even with the stun? Thank you for your hard work love you guys.

I was there when she took her final breath. She pulled me in close and she said, "You're the one." She said, "They chose you, long before you were ever in existence." And I understood what she meant. Her touch could save the world but her kiss burns it to the ground. I love you, Sister Abigail.

Thank you for the post..
I feel the no Boomshot in execution was a brilliant change, same with the change to 1 smoke instead of 2.

What I personally feel could change, 2 things.

-The Lancer... It seems to be a little too strong, I agree with that it should've been buffed on launch, but the buff was slightly too much.
-The melee... Although time was shortened on the stun, which is great, it is still dealing a lot of damage, people can STILL two piece in a way of them shooting you first, and the melee, or just a double melee..

Thank you for the input on the community and giving a heads up on changes, much appreciated.

Thanks for coming lose with this information. Everyone was speaking of a major Lancer buff and altered melee, but the was no official word to fall back on. Glad to see the Stim gas grenade's duration lowered. Curious to see how often the Stims will be used now.

If not Gears, it's Darkstalkers or Street Fighter. PM me if you play fighters!

Thanks go out to Cher, PopeAdrian37th, Yosoypr, and III LYCAN III for their humble generosity!

I understand completely what you guys are trying to do, but please try to tell us and keep us posted when you do updates like this. Like I have said before and I think I speak for most people in this community when I say no one wanted the rifle buff. They were fine at launch and no one complained about them. I really want you guys to put it back to the way it was before but looks like its not happening anytime soon. Oh well..... Thanks for the Update though

The rifles were well balanced form the start. A player who learned them could still do extremely well, just the Gnasher is the preferred weapon in a 1-loadout system by most people. I feel it was more of a preference thing than a balance thing. But that's just me.

Regardless, thanks for the post. Hope to see you keeping up with the tweaks!

Thanks for the update!
I'd also like to point out that there's a cover issue. I find that about 50% of the time when I'm sliding into cover my character will do this strange looking "glide" and just stand at the cover instead of actually taking cover. Hope this helps.

Epic should make the following changes to allow the game to be played competitive:

Smokes should become smokes and not stuns because it slows the game down and doesn't allow teams to play with push tactics on maps. The best solution to get rid of the problem would be to add a new type of starting grenade which is just a puff of smoke (like gears 1). The smoke grenades currently starting with are too smokey, lasts too long which doesn't help the competitive community as it delays the game for a few seconds. With smokes being too smokey for a long duration isn’t a good watch at competitive level because viewers/spectators won’t know what is going on for they few seconds. The competitive community cannot play with any of the grenade provided on the game because beacons give away opposing teams tactics, frags doesn't allow a team to push in and would just set up a camp fest which wouldn't be fun to play or watch. Stem gas is too powerful and can’t be played with at competitive level as people will just throw it and fight inside it which would be boring to watch and play (would also slow the game down as opposing players to stem gas will have to run away or hide behind cover for about 7 seconds until it’s fully away).
Update the power of the Melle so it is a 3 Melle beat down and also has a delay between whacks and shots. The reason for this is when fighting someone from close range the melle is often used as an unfair counter attack and makes no sense. A shotgun in the face should be more effective than someone hitting you with an elbow. The two piece should still exist but just make it harder to do with a delay between melle and shooting any gun.
Add competitive Ranked playlist where the decided weapon swaps are used to allow teams to practice against other teams in ranked. This will help the gears community by allowing public players to play as a team on a competitive playlist, resulting in more competitive gears players. This will have to be 4v4's not 5v5's because its only 4v4's that are played at a competitive level
Allow weapon swap changes for each individual maps to save time when setting up the game for scrims and clan matches ect. A lot of time is wasted when setting up a private match as weapon swaps have to be made for every map played. If weapon swap changes could be saved for a map then it would allow more games to be played and will allow players to play more matches resulting in a higher skill level for individuals and teams.
Increasing Gnasher ammo from 8 Bullets to 16 because it takes a few bullets to kill an opponent, if they run away and don't have there shotgun out then the player might not have enough bullets to kill the next opponent that comes near them because they don't have enough Gnasher bullets left. By increasing the Gnasher ammo to 16 will allow a competitive player enough ammo to be able to clutch or kill a few opposing players without running out of ammo. Increasing Gnasher bullets will make the game more fun to play and watch at a competitive level.
Symmetrical maps added into game (free download), adding in symmetrical maps allow teams to do balanced tactics, the current maps are good for public but are unbalanced due to where teams spawn. Maps should be added in where it isn't possible to run off building (flat maps) because from playing competitive games on maps provided, the team who get the power weapons jump down to the bottom of the map and just camp because they cannot lose. This make the game boring to play and watch. Maps should be more balanced and made like previous gears where opponents have no where to hide.

Thank you for the post.
My two cents in this is that 1 THANK YOU for removing the boomshot in execution. The only way I can see this weapon being there is 1 or 2 shots TOPS.
My personal opinion is that the lancer is way too powerful. Obviously everybody is going to use the gnasher in multiplayer, because there is no reason not to, with the multitude of power weapons to pick up, or random weapons from dead people.
Perhaps just make the lancer much less effective at 2 shot kill range for the gnasher.

Yay for the stim grenade and melee nerf. My two biggest complaints thus far. Lancer for a 15% increase? We'll see lol. And the Retro and Hammerbust should be left alone IMO. Anyways, thanks for the updates and some very good changes! ^_^

Epic should make the following changes to allow the game to be played competitive:

Smokes should become smokes and not stuns because it slows the game down and doesn't allow teams to play with push tactics on maps. The best solution to get rid of the problem would be to add a new type of starting grenade which is just a puff of smoke (like gears 1). The smoke grenades currently starting with are too smokey, lasts too long which doesn't help the competitive community as it delays the game for a few seconds. With smokes being too smokey for a long duration isn’t a good watch at competitive level because viewers/spectators won’t know what is going on for they few seconds. The competitive community cannot play with any of the grenade provided on the game because beacons give away opposing teams tactics, frags doesn't allow a team to push in and would just set up a camp fest which wouldn't be fun to play or watch. Stem gas is too powerful and can’t be played with at competitive level as people will just throw it and fight inside it which would be boring to watch and play (would also slow the game down as opposing players to stem gas will have to run away or hide behind cover for about 7 seconds until it’s fully away).
Update the power of the Melle so it is a 3 Melle beat down and also has a delay between whacks and shots. The reason for this is when fighting someone from close range the melle is often used as an unfair counter attack and makes no sense. A shotgun in the face should be more effective than someone hitting you with an elbow. The two piece should still exist but just make it harder to do with a delay between melle and shooting any gun.
Add competitive Ranked playlist where the decided weapon swaps are used to allow teams to practice against other teams in ranked. This will help the gears community by allowing public players to play as a team on a competitive playlist, resulting in more competitive gears players. This will have to be 4v4's not 5v5's because its only 4v4's that are played at a competitive level
Allow weapon swap changes for each individual maps to save time when setting up the game for scrims and clan matches ect. A lot of time is wasted when setting up a private match as weapon swaps have to be made for every map played. If weapon swap changes could be saved for a map then it would allow more games to be played and will allow players to play more matches resulting in a higher skill level for individuals and teams.
Increasing Gnasher ammo from 8 Bullets to 16 because it takes a few bullets to kill an opponent, if they run away and don't have there shotgun out then the player might not have enough bullets to kill the next opponent that comes near them because they don't have enough Gnasher bullets left. By increasing the Gnasher ammo to 16 will allow a competitive player enough ammo to be able to clutch or kill a few opposing players without running out of ammo. Increasing Gnasher bullets will make the game more fun to play and watch at a competitive level.
Symmetrical maps added into game (free download), adding in symmetrical maps allow teams to do balanced tactics, the current maps are good for public but are unbalanced due to where teams spawn. Maps should be added in where it isn't possible to run off building (flat maps) because from playing competitive games on maps provided, the team who get the power weapons jump down to the bottom of the map and just camp because they cannot lose. This make the game boring to play and watch. Maps should be more balanced and made like previous gears where opponents have no where to hide.

Ok. I think this is going to be a long one so I'm going to apologize in advance, but you said you wanted feedback so here it is. I also want to preface this by saying we as players have a huge advantage over the game designers is that we get to see this stuff in action immediately, where game designers have to think this stuff up and take their best guess on how it will work out in game play. Also, thanks so much for this post! That being said, lets get into it.

First off, I just mentioned that designers have to take their best guess in how things will play out, but this one i cant understand. In my gaming experience its been proven quite clear that if something in the game, any game, can be exploited, overused, and/or misused to gain an advantage, people will do that. So I honestly can't se how stim grenades (in their current capacity) even made into multiplayer as it was painfully obvious from the Overrun demo that these would be an issue in mp. I know someone had to think this thing up, and people are people, so their has to be some emotional attachment there but I'm sorry to say, they are way too cheesy in mp. Nothing drives me (and I'm sure many others) more nuts than being killed cheaply. It's one thing to get outplayed, but another thing entirely when you outplay someone and still get killed because of something like a stim grenade thrown down in the middle of a battle. My suggestion, make stims only pick up downed teammates in a DBNO situation like in Execution, and remove the health regen field entirely.

While we are talking about stims, lets talk about grenades in general. The LB quick toss is cool. But now that grenades are thrown much faster, is it really a good idea to keep getting more from ammo boxes? It was an excellent idea to remove all but spot and smoke from Execution, so thank you for that. Still, the smoke stun is a little excessive. Not being able to see is one thing, but not being able to move is another. Getting killed because of the inability to move my character always feels like another cheap death. There is no way to avoid them, thus they play cheaply. I'd prefer smokes acted like their name, and just made smoke. They are more of a stun grenade than anything now, but that's just my opinion.

Ok, next, the 1 weapon loadout. In a game where weapon balance is critical, and there has always been a huge argument over nerfing this or buffing that, why force us into picking one or the other, creating even more reason for people to want various nerfs or buffs. In the past, whatever way you looked at it, these cries for buffs and nerfs werent all that justified in that you always had both types of weapons. Now with one or the other, people have a legitimate gripe with the other side because you don't have the means to defend yourself properly. There is no balance in 1 weapon loadouts. There are often times I, as more of a gnasher player, would love,to have a rifle battle with someone, but I am forced to run away because, well, my gnasher isn't going to work from 50ft. I get annoyed when i get killed by rifles from a distance because I cant fight back, and I'm sure rifle players are equally annoyed when getting bodied by a shotgun from close distance as they helplessly blind fire their rifle as they get gibbed. If speeding up gameplay was the goal, this is not helping. My simple fix, ditch the snub and give us a second primary. It's not like the snub is needed for meat/boom shield any more. Having 1 weapon makes the game slower, more 1 dimensional, and more boring in my opinion, and I think that's why such a big difference in gnasher to rifle kill ratio. It's not a balance issue, but you just can't leave home without your shotgun, so rifle kills have to go down by default. If the rifles get too good where they beat the gnasher close range, then most people will use them and the people that like shotguns will be furious.

Ok, while this isn't nearly as important for gameplay as the previous things I've mentioned, it still has an impact and needs to be talked about. Why no locust? Not only was that a staple of the series, but with all of the crazy looking skins and can be difficult to tell friend from foe. Also, all of the audio cues are thrown out the window as, which not only did I enjoy, but felt them to be very helpful. Listening to what is going on around you is no longer a part of the game, which is a shame. If the reason behind this is due to hitbox issues, I guess it's better to have a fair game, but I'm still disappointed that by the fourth time around making GOW it couldn't be figured out properly.

Edit: as far as rifle buff, I think go back to how it was before the buff, and a 2 primary weapon loadout by ditching the snub will help balance issues in the statistics, then work from there.

Edit #2: I just tried the CHB. That thing is a beast from close range. If your 10-15ft with a gnasher and someone has the CHB you don't stand a chance if he has good aim. The current issue is the time between shots with the gnasher. It's just too slow to compete. I'm not saying make it shoot faster (ok, maybe a tiny bit) but the CHB does too much damage too fast from that range.

Edit #3: as someone else posted, high gnasher ratio should start going down with the melee nerf, all the more reason to put the rifles back to how they were

Last edited by MEGATRON 631; 04-02-2013 at 12:11 PM.

All of my comments come from an Execution players perspective, and change for the sake of change is not progression.

Quick question for somone...have all rifles increased...or just lancer?

Since release, there are were only 2 balance issues I had.
I wanted the melee/2-peice fixed
I wanted Stims changed
...it looks like you've done both

My suggestions:MeleeOverall
-slightly longer time between melee and shoot
-remove the ability to make contact on a melee when your gun is returning to your body
---it seems to do damage no matter what stage of the animationShotguns
-do one of these:
--remove the melee
--make the melee MUCH slower
--make the melee slower, and lower the damage

Stims
-do one of these things
--make it only heal teammates (but not the thrower)
--heal everyone in the gas
--act as an insti-heal, but have no durration
--shorten the durration to 1.5 sec
--start as an instil heal, but make it expenentially slow down how effective it is at healing

Those were me thoughts after launch.
It seems like you've done some nice changes...so I'm interested to try them out and give some feedback then

So, it appears that one or two of you have noticed a couple changes to the game recently. I'm long winded, but I'll get to a list of changes below. Skip ahead if you're impatient, it won't hurt my feelings...

We hit this strange point of convergance where we had people off at GDC, and out for the Holiday weekend, and our DLC hit earlier than expected, and... anyway, enough excuses. It was a great opportunity to make some updates that could reach a broad audience, but it happened before we had a real chance to engage with you guys. This obviously led to some questions, and in a few cases, some good old fashioned rage. I like passion.

We want Gears to be a "living product". Over time, it will grow, and it will change. It will make mistakes, and (hopefully!) it will learn from them and be better because of it. Just like me and (dare I say it) you! But the main thing here is that we want this Gears to be a conversation. From the outset, we've wanted to make a game for you, and one that we'd want to play with you. So I'll say up front that if you ever have questions, concerns, or just want to chat Gears... you can absolutely feel free to contact me. Will I respond to every message I get? Nope! Will I read each and every single one? Yep! Raczilla, Flak, and our amazing team of community mods are all there, too. They want to talk to you. This isn't an invitation to spam, or harass, or complain. This is an invitation to start a real dialogue on how we can make Gears better. Together.

Still with me? Sweet! Here's the promised list. Apologies for not getting it out earlier:

- Execution now available as a gametype. Execution, I missed you. Desperately. Welcome back!
- Under the hood, Warzone has always been called TDM; this led to a bug in the menus where Warzone was actually showing up as an available option. No, it was not Warzone, it was a broken version of TDM thanks to a typo. Typo fixed, Warzone no longer showing up. (Sorry if we got your hopes up!)
- New map released. Look for Haven in standard MP!
- Mortar wasn't working properly on clients, so it was replaced by Torquebow (only affects Gondola). May be addressed properly in future patch.
- Frags were appearing in Execution under some conditions, so all base Frag pickups replaced by Smokes. This, too, is a temporary fix to keep the game moving, and will be addressed properly in a future TU. This also affects only Gondola. Poor Gondola has had a rough week.
- Boomshot appears to be horribly OP in Execution. Boomshot has therefore been temporarily removed from Execution gametype. Would love feedback here.
- Smoke nade count reduced from 2 down to 1 in Execution.
- Removed the ability to martyr smoke grenades. Executions are now fun in Execution again.
- Smoke cringe duration slightly reduced.
- Shortened lifespan of Stim grenades in standard MP. Overrun/Survival unchanged.
- Value of XP in all prize boxes increased.

OK, here's the more controversial changes. Feedback appreciated:

- Shortened the melee stun significantly, and added a very, very short delay after melee swing with the Gnasher. Note that Sawed Off now inherits from the Gnasher, so this change will affect both. Melee was getting more kills than all other weapons in the game combined, excluding the Gnasher.

- Lancer buffed (about a 15% increase). My gut says that's a bit much - and Pete is wary as well - but we wanted to let it play out a bit and see how it shifted the balance of gameplay. In the first week of release, approx. 80% of all kills in MP were from the Gnasher. (Were you one of the people who claimed this was going to be a Rifle only game? Eat your words! :P) I would love to hear your thoughts as to whether this is because the Gnasher is the preferred weapon (not a problem) or if the Gnasher is the only way to play because balance is off (a problem). Obviously, the true answer lies somewhere in the middle, but we should still look at it.

- Retro and HB both given a very, very, small buff (1 bullet fewer to kill with Retro, and a fraction of a bullet less (math is fun!) for the HB) to help them hang with the new and improved (?) Lancer.

I'm hoping to avoid gut reactions and assumptions here. Instead, we want to make decisions based of actual experience and data. So: Go ye forth and play. Then play more. THEN give us feedback. We'd love to hear it.

"Knowing is half the battle"

Thanks for the update and please update this thread as yall make more patches server side

BTW there are some ideas i talk about here that i would like to know where you guys at EPIC stand on.

I still think the melee is still a problem, people seem to 'reverse 2 piece' - shoot then instantly melee.
Also when someone melee's me I seem to lag to the side..

Another problem is the wall bounce, half the time you seem to glitch into cover and then stand there for a moment.

Removing boom from execution is a great idea as I think execution is a game mode that requires skill, and we all know it takes hardly any skill to use the boom shot.

Other than this I think everything else is good and im glad to see you guys are listening and constantly changing, I think a little gnasher buff would do well as it seems weak compared to the rifles, but that's my opinion as im a big GoW1 fan

gansher is most used weapon because people love their shotgun battles, not because of a balancing issue... the rifles are terribly op now, please revert to how they were at launch they were perfect, i had no problem killing people with the lancer at launch, but now it is just too easy and fast...

So, it appears that one or two of you have noticed a couple changes to the game recently. I'm long winded, but I'll get to a list of changes below. Skip ahead if you're impatient, it won't hurt my feelings...

We hit this strange point of convergance where we had people off at GDC, and out for the Holiday weekend, and our DLC hit earlier than expected, and... anyway, enough excuses. It was a great opportunity to make some updates that could reach a broad audience, but it happened before we had a real chance to engage with you guys. This obviously led to some questions, and in a few cases, some good old fashioned rage. I like passion.

We want Gears to be a "living product". Over time, it will grow, and it will change. It will make mistakes, and (hopefully!) it will learn from them and be better because of it. Just like me and (dare I say it) you! But the main thing here is that we want this Gears to be a conversation. From the outset, we've wanted to make a game for you, and one that we'd want to play with you. So I'll say up front that if you ever have questions, concerns, or just want to chat Gears... you can absolutely feel free to contact me. Will I respond to every message I get? Nope! Will I read each and every single one? Yep! Raczilla, Flak, and our amazing team of community mods are all there, too. They want to talk to you. This isn't an invitation to spam, or harass, or complain. This is an invitation to start a real dialogue on how we can make Gears better. Together.

Still with me? Sweet! Here's the promised list. Apologies for not getting it out earlier:

- Execution now available as a gametype. Execution, I missed you. Desperately. Welcome back!
- Under the hood, Warzone has always been called TDM; this led to a bug in the menus where Warzone was actually showing up as an available option. No, it was not Warzone, it was a broken version of TDM thanks to a typo. Typo fixed, Warzone no longer showing up. (Sorry if we got your hopes up!)
- New map released. Look for Haven in standard MP!
- Mortar wasn't working properly on clients, so it was replaced by Torquebow (only affects Gondola). May be addressed properly in future patch.
- Frags were appearing in Execution under some conditions, so all base Frag pickups replaced by Smokes. This, too, is a temporary fix to keep the game moving, and will be addressed properly in a future TU. This also affects only Gondola. Poor Gondola has had a rough week.
- Boomshot appears to be horribly OP in Execution. Boomshot has therefore been temporarily removed from Execution gametype. Would love feedback here.
- Smoke nade count reduced from 2 down to 1 in Execution.
- Removed the ability to martyr smoke grenades. Executions are now fun in Execution again.
- Smoke cringe duration slightly reduced.
- Shortened lifespan of Stim grenades in standard MP. Overrun/Survival unchanged.
- Value of XP in all prize boxes increased.

OK, here's the more controversial changes. Feedback appreciated:

- Shortened the melee stun significantly, and added a very, very short delay after melee swing with the Gnasher. Note that Sawed Off now inherits from the Gnasher, so this change will affect both. Melee was getting more kills than all other weapons in the game combined, excluding the Gnasher.

- Lancer buffed (about a 15% increase). My gut says that's a bit much - and Pete is wary as well - but we wanted to let it play out a bit and see how it shifted the balance of gameplay. In the first week of release, approx. 80% of all kills in MP were from the Gnasher. (Were you one of the people who claimed this was going to be a Rifle only game? Eat your words! :P) I would love to hear your thoughts as to whether this is because the Gnasher is the preferred weapon (not a problem) or if the Gnasher is the only way to play because balance is off (a problem). Obviously, the true answer lies somewhere in the middle, but we should still look at it.

- Retro and HB both given a very, very, small buff (1 bullet fewer to kill with Retro, and a fraction of a bullet less (math is fun!) for the HB) to help them hang with the new and improved (?) Lancer.

I'm hoping to avoid gut reactions and assumptions here. Instead, we want to make decisions based of actual experience and data. So: Go ye forth and play. Then play more. THEN give us feedback. We'd love to hear it.

Jim, I appreciate the update.

Just my opinions, but that is what you were looking for.

1 - smoke, I'm good with, reduced stun, I'm good there too

Boomshot removal - Good move, it was always a mad rush to that weapon, while it made for great TV, it was brutal in game.

Poor poor Gondola for sure, lol... Can you verify something for me? It seems the scorcher isn't quite as hot anymore, has there been any changes made there?

As for the "Passion" filled discussion. When I first loaded judgment I tried the lancer, and without the stopping power it wasn't a very viable weapon (this isn't about stopping power, I just used it as a reference). This immediately forced me to using the gnasher if I wanted to stay remotely competitive, but personally I like using whatever weapon I feel like loading that day. After the buff, I can now use the lancer if I choose, better yet, I enjoy waiting and picking one up off the field after I destroy the with the gnasher. which can still be done, unless you go running in head exposed, in which case you deserve to have your head taken off. I guess what I'm getting at, I enjoy the buff. Now I can go back to using whatever gun I feel like loading that day.

A BIG BIG thanks to PopeAdrian37th for the sparkling new Paintball Skin. I will sport it with pride...Proud member of the EGFC....

Thanks Jim, I feel lik eit was a signifcant improvement, and last night was the first time I had fun in vs. multiplayer. I know pete likes to look at #'s, and use that as PART of the decision making in terms of weapon balance, but I think we have to realize that people use the gnasher because it is the most fun, in their opinion. I don't believe it's because it's the best weapon, or it's too strong, and that can be proven by putting it in the hands of new players. How would a NEW player do with teh gnasher? They get demolished for a solid month when learning the gun. It's hard to master, but when you do master it, you get rewarded. Until that point, you will call it broken, yell about sponging, eating shots, lag, etc. This is not a gun issue, and people don't use it because it's too strong. It's just the most fun in many people's minds, and it's what we've been using for years.

The lancer didn't seem too powerful to me last night, but It's very possible I was so excited to actually be shooting, and having gunfights as opposed to getting meleed in the back and 2 pieced that I didn't notice. Looking at the #'s, a 15% buff does seem like a bit much, but it's much better than 25%. I guess we'll have to see how that plays out over time.

A retro buff I feel like is a mistake, let's not bring it up to gears 3 retro. I used it a few times, I felt like it was finally balanced. If the user #'s are low, it's because people don't like to use the gun, and many consider it an "unwritten code", just like they wouldn't 2 piece. That was gears 3... In judgment, I used it a bit, and I feel like it was perfect at launch. Low user #'s does not mean the gun is too weak... it means people prefer other weapons. however, I have seen no issue with the retro pre-buff.

Hammerburst is, was, and in my opinion, should have remained how it was at launch. I've always considered the hammerburst to be the "gentleman's rifle"... It's not a gun you can pick up and instantly excel with, that's what the lancer is for. The hammerburst is like the gnasher, you have to put your time in, and after you do, you get rewarded with a powerful, accurate gun. But, you're not going to pick it up and excel day 1 if you haven't used it previously. I thought it was fine as was, in capable hands, it drops an enemy quick. If someone doesn't want to take the time to learn and master it, that's fine, they can use the lancer. Spray and pray. I like the recoil at launch, made it more difficult to use. It's already very strong, and pinpoint accurate... now, you have to put the time in to master it.

The 2 piece gone is a HUUUUGGGGGEEEEEEEE step. Now, we have ourselves a game Jim. We are a few tweeks from being perfect, for MOST players I think. Everyone will never be happy, but I think we're not far from pleasing MOST. The no locust still sucks, and is a major, major turn off for every...single...person.... I have spoken to. When talking about the game, and what needs to be changed, EVERY person has said the removal of locust was lame. I know people that don't want to play because of it, the whole red vs. blue thing is kinda whack, no offence. But gears is NOT red vs. blue, gears is cog vs. locust. Even if it's a cosmetic change, I have yet to find a single person (that I have spoken to in game, or off) that agrees that red vs. blue was the way to go. It's just not right.

Having a hard time with Bairds? Click this link 2-piecing is like kicking someone in the nuts... you may win the fight, but you're still a loser.

I've not played since the changes due to work commitments so can't really comment on how they have worked in a positive or negative way.

What I will say is.
Im glad the two piece is being addressed. Although why it is being made into something more difficult than it needs to be I don't understand. IMHO You had it perfect in gears 1. Simple? No?

As for the buff the rifles received.
I in all honestly thought you had the balance nailed there from day one of release.
A competent player with a rifle could hold of a less competent gnasher rusher. As could a player competent with the gnasher close the gap on a lesser skilled opponent who was using a rifle and get the kill.
Before the "update" I saw players with a lancer cause serious problems simply because they were skilled with the weapon combined with awareness of their surroundings.
Should that not be what gears should be about. Mastering your choosen weapon instead of it being spoon fed to you?

Smoke stun.
Again, why over complicate things? Take away the stun. They are not flashbangs or concusion grenades. They are smokes. Simple? No?

And for the below quote

Originally Posted by Entropy

In the first week of release, approx. 80% of all kills in MP were from the Gnasher. (Were you one of the people who claimed this was going to be a Rifle only game? Eat your words! :P) I would love to hear your thoughts as to whether this is because the Gnasher is the preferred weapon (not a problem) or if the Gnasher is the only way to play because balance is off (a problem).

Have you guys seriously not realised yet the reason for the gnasher being the goto weapon for the majority is because that's what the majority enjoy using? It's what made/makes gears unique.