David Icke has travelled a long way from Coventry City goalkeeper to BBC presenter, and now world famous author and lecturer. His latest bestselling book, Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster, takes a look behind the 'movie' of the official story presented to us regarding September 11. We were delighted to have David join us for this exclusive interview.

Paul Joseph Watson: Given the overwhelming amount of holes in the scenario that the nineteen hijackers as named by the FBI were piloting the planes on 9/11 is it safe to conclude from the evidence that the planes were flown by remote control? Who, if anyone, was on those planes from your research?

David Icke: Well at least seven of the 19 named by the FBI were not on board because they are still alive and the "evidence" to confirm the others were involved has simply not been produced. The "Bin Laden and the 19 terrorists" official story has become the official "history" not by evidence, but by constant repetition. For sure the "terrorists" who "trained" (often incompetently) on tiny planes at puddle jumping flying schools were not at the controls of the 757/767s and able to hit their targets so precisely. The very idea is insane. It is quite possible that there were terrorists on board who believed they were involved in a conventional hijack, but found themselves suddenly in a very different situation when control of the plane was lost to remote control technology. My money is definitely on the remote control scenario. Documents have revealed that the Pentagon was planning something similar involving remotely controlled aircraft 40 YEARS ago and with planes now flown by computer all you need is a means to take over the aircraft's computer system from the ground and you can fly them anywhere you like with fantastic precision. I watched a UK television documentary a few months ago which put a camera in the cockpit of a 747 flying from New York to London. Once the pilot lifted the plane from the ground the computer took over the whole way, landed the plane and put the front wheel on the centre line of the runway, then applied the brakes. The pilot just sat there.

The US military has had remotely controlled planes for at least 40 years and this, for me, is how it was done.

Paul Joseph Watson: David, in previous interviews you mentioned that September 11 was a very sloppy job. You alluded to the fact that certain other events that were supposed to happen were cancelled or went wrong. Can you elaborate on this?

David Icke: From what I understand there were other planes that were due to be involved that day also, but for

some reason it didn't happen. Flight 93 was clearly meant to strike a target, but instead was brought down in Pennsylvania and it appears that their timeline got badly out of sync. Flight 93 was delayed for the best part of 40 minutes between leaving the gate and take off at New Jersey, but the airline couldn't, or wouldn't, tell me why. From what I gather talking to contacts it seems that they wanted the planes to crash much closer together than they did because although their lack of response with the first three planes was outrageous, to allow Flight 93 to hit it's target all that time after the other three would have been unexplainable even to the most blinkered citizen. I think that Flight 93 was shot down because of this and did not crash because passengers tried to storm the cockpit.

The events of September 11th were a sloppy job in so many ways, not least the official cover story of what happened, which is taken apart in Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster. However, it shows how incompetent you can be, and how you can blatantly lie at every turn, and still fool most of the people.

Paul Joseph Watson: Is the Pentagon 'no plane' issue backed up with solid evidence or, as some have suggested, is it a deliberate disinformation op to be later brought out to discredit gullible researchers?

David Icke: My jury is out on this in many ways because I can see where both sides are coming from, but I would want to see some more serious evidence before I would go with the no plane idea. I talked to Rodney Stitch, an air crash investigator with the FAA and now an exposer of the FAA's massive web of corruption, and he dismissed the no plane theory as ridiculous. he said he had seen many crashes into buildings that left no external wreckage. Such an opinion must be taken seriously, but there still remain unanswered questions and until they are answered satisfactorily I can understand why the no plane theory will continue.

My own attitude is that, while it is an interesting debate, it doesn't really matter to the big picture of what happened on 9/11, and why, to know which of these camps is correct.

Paul Joseph Watson: I had a strange experience on September 11 2001. I was watching a BBC interview with a United Nations representative. The man was sitting in a studio with a wavy UN flag graphic behind him on a blue screen. About half way through the interview, a green snake wrapped around a thin brown pole materialized over the UN flag, remained there for about ten seconds and then faded away again. Suffice to say I have never hallucinated in my life and this thing was really there. Just give our readers a couple of striking examples of 9/11 Illuminati symbolism. Plus, how would you respond to those who say that the whole symbolism aspect of research is a distraction?

David Icke: Symbolism is not a distraction, it is fundamental to the Illuminati operation. They are obsessed with symbolism. The reptilian brain, the most ancient part of the human brain, for instance, communicates through images not words. It is through this that so many subliminal messages enter our subconscious mind. Such images are affecting people all the time without them having any idea of what is happening to them. At its foundation, the Illuminati manipulation is a mind game. If you can condition human consciousness and its sense of reality you control the behaviour and perceptions of the people. Much of this is done through images or symbolism.

Some of the classic Illuminati symbols are the lighted torch, the pyramid and all seeing eye that you find on the dollar bill, the reversed pentagram, and their "goddess" under different names. Back in Babylon, where the Illuminati had their ancient headquarters, she was called Queen Semiramis (the "branch bearer"). As I show in my books and talks, the Statue of Liberty with her lighted torch is a mirror of how Queen Semiramis was portrayed

in Babylon. The goddess of the French Republic is the same image for the same reason and you will find a mirror of the Statue of Liberty on an island in the river Seine in Paris. It was Freemasons from Paris, who knew what the symbolism really meant, who gave the Statue of Liberty to New York.

Paul Joseph Watson: I have noticed that since the horrendous 'fat look-alike' bin Laden video his only communication has been by way of dodgy audiotapes and letters mysteriously 'discovered' by CNN or the Pentagon. What's your view of bin Laden? Is he dead? Is he firmly under Illuminati control or was he just a loose cannon that they used as a patsy?

David Icke: Any one of these could be true and, from the big picture point of view, it doesn't really matter which. What matters is the understanding that September 11th was not the work of Osama bin Laden. Whether he is a dead patsy, a controlled patsy or a loose cannon patsy, the bottom line is that he is a patsy, a fall guy used to hide who was really behind it all. He was also a convenient excuse to remove the Taliban and replace them with a US-UK controlled regime that would ensure that the oil and gas pipelines from the Caspian Sea can be built for the oil companies controlled by people like the Bushes and Dick Cheney. While the Taliban was there the pipelines could not be built through Afghanistan to the Pakistan coast. When you think that they are now producing commercials and movies in which real and digital people interact without you seeing the join, the days of believing what we are seeing, let alone what we are hearing, are over. I would not trust the Arabic "CNN", Al-Jazeera, the source of most "bin Laden" communications, as far as I could throw a 747.Paul Joseph Watson: David, many people in positions of power have said that the 'War on Terror,' or the 'War on Sanity' as you call it, will never end. Where do you see the war moving next on the globe, or will it simply fizzle out in a short period of time?

David Icke: No I don't think it will fizzle out. There is a definite agenda long planned to take us along the road to a world government, army, central bank, currency, and a microchipped population. Iraq is now the target, obviously, but they will go on after that because they want to trigger a war with the Muslim world and eventually a conflict with China. The "solution" to this Third World War, which is what they want, will be a world government, army, central bank, currency, and a microchipped population. I can see "terrorist" (Illuminati) outrages in the UK to bounce the British people into supporting the fascist agenda fronted (but certainly not controlled) by Herr Blair and Herr Bush. We can also expect more manufactured outrages in the US.Paul Joseph Watson: How do you foresee the proposed war on Iraq developing? Will the globalists need a pretext to invade? What time frame do you think they are working on? [Note - this interview was conducted before the war started]

David Icke: People need to understand that all this "debate" over the invasion of Iraq, the UN resolution, and the weapons inspectors is just for public consumption. Its another part of the mind game. They are going to invade Iraq and they were always going to invade Iraq because that is what the agenda demands. I think the invasion will be sooner, the next few months, rather than later, the Summer or the Autumn. They will find some manufactured reason for it, they always do.

Paul Joseph Watson: David, in 'The Biggest Secret' you predicted that the Chinese may be stimulated into starting a third world war. Several researchers suggest that Russia and China have an agenda to form their own new world order, or at least one in which they will dominate over the Anglo-American establishment. This was even reported on by United Press International earlier this year. Are these two powers independent of the Illuminati to some extent

or just as 'under the thumb' as every other country?

David Icke: The Illuminati have factions seeking to control every country, including Russia and China. The truth is that the families that control America, like the Bushes and Rockefellers, are very close to the families that control Russia and China. But if you want conflict that will create the problems to which you can offer your solution, you need to convince the people that there are two "sides" at war. Of course these Illuminati factions want to be top dog over each other and therefore there is infighting and battles for supremacy between them. That is the nature of the beast. But they all have a stake in the overall agenda being implemented and that concentrates their minds together. They were described to me very accurately as like a gang of bank robbers - they all agree on the job, but argue about how the spoils are to be shared out.

Paul Joseph Watson: Myself and others have argued that there is an internal fissure within the Illuminati. The Anglo-American establishment want to really ram through the agenda at an accelerated pace by launching a massive string of 'problem-reaction-solution' events. On the other hand, the Europeans prefer the 'stepping-stones method' as you describe it; they feel patience will enable them to fully entrench the agenda. This is why the Bilderberg group delayed the invasion of Iraq when everyone was expecting it to start in Summer 2002. From your research, do you feel this internal split is evident or is the Illuminati more unified than ever?

David Icke: I don't think the Illuminati has ever been fully "unified" for the reasons expressed above, but I think it is important to appreciate that the Illuminati is a fiercely hierarchical pyramid and that no one argues with those at the very top, the ones that never put themselves on public display. These levels are way, way, above people like the Bushes and Blair. So there may be, and I think there are, differences between factions on the best way forward, but they don't really count anyway because the agenda is dictated from the peak of the pyramid and what they say goes whatever - or else. I remember the former soccer coach, Brian Clough, being asked what happened if one of his players disagreed with his policy. He said that they would have a chat, discuss the issues, and then agree that Clough was right. It is like that within the Illuminati. There can be changes of timing, however, if the propaganda on the people has not worked as quickly as they had hoped, say with the invasion of Iraq, and they may have to delay events until the propaganda has reached an effective level.

Paul Joseph Watson: An often asked question, and perhaps the most difficult to answer, is the issue of who sits atop the pyramid. Which people or groups, the ones visible to us that is, have the most influence and power within the Illuminati structure?

David Icke: You can symbolise the structure as a pyramid or as a spiders web. The spider in the centre of the web is in Europe, at operational level anyway, and only the very elite groupings and secret societies connect directly into the spider. I would include the Jesuit hierarchy among these, together with many that are so secret they cannot be given names. At this level the Illuminati are barely "human" and are directly controlled by the other-dimensional entities that are really orchestrating the manipulation of the five-sense "world". By the time you get out to organisations like the Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Commission and Council on Foreign Relations you are a long way from the spider. These are operational groupings which orchestrate the conspiracy to the spider's agenda, they are not THE conspiracy as some researchers appear to believe.

Paul Joseph Watson: David, as a Brit you obviously track developments in your own country. Weekly we hear stories on the imminent arrival of a national ID card and the sacrifice of the British pound for the Euro. How far down the new world order/police state road is Britain?

David Icke: We are moving along that road very rapidly now, but the British establishment has had many centuries to perfect its techniques and so to most people it is not as obvious here as it is in the United States. Tony Blair (pictured) is a 100% wholly-owned subsidiary of the Illuminati and he will take the UK into the European single currency (stepping stone to the world currency) unless the British public wake up fast. Many changes have taken place, justified by 9/11, to advance the Big Brother society in the UK.

Paul Joseph Watson: You often use the 'Wheel of Fortune' analogy to depict how people would rather watch television than fight for freedom. Obviously, we know that most news is carefully presented propaganda, but aside from that, is television merely a tool used to distract people or does its purpose run deeper?

David Icke: Television is the hypnotist in the corner of the room. On one level it bombards people with the official version of life and events and distracts them from seeing

what is happening with the endless diet of sports and game shows and all the rest. Go to sleeeeeep, we will look after things for you. On another level I have no doubt that the subconscious of the viewer is also being programmed with subliminal messages that later manifest as what they believe are their own thoughts and ideas.

Paul Joseph Watson: Solutions. Is simply communicating the truth to as many people as possible going to be enough? How bad will the situation get before it improves?

David Icke: We are at the fork in the road. Go on as we are as a human race and we will live in a fully-fledged global fascist state in maybe five years. The structures for it are already in place or in the process of being made so. Communicating what is happening on a five-sense level is vital if this is to be prevented and I do think it will get worse before the tide can be seen to have turned - as it will. Outside the public domain this is already happening.

However, to really change this reality we call the five sense "world" we have to realise that we are creating our own reality, and collectively this five-sense reality, in every moment. The Illuminati know this and that's why they work so hard to condition and programme our sense of reality and ourselves because they know that if we take on the belief that we are ordinary and powerless we will live ordinary and powerless lives and be no trouble to their agenda. Most human beings are actually mind-controlled to believe the externally-induced reality, the "movie" I call it, that suits the Illuminati agenda. The road to freedom is simply freeing our minds. Once we do that, everything follows. This "world" is just a mirror of our inner self. Only when we are free within ourselves will the mirror reflect that freedom as a free society.

I go into all this in some detail in the last chapter of Alice in Wonderland.

David Icke's latest groundbreaking book, Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster, is available now. I would also recommend you check out David's previous books, The Biggest Secret and Children of the Matrix. The are available online at www.davidicke.com or www.bridgeoflove.com.