Comments on Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam AdamsTypePad2009-01-23T16:49:22ZAndy Towlehttp://www.towleroad.com/tag:typepad.com,2003:http://www.towleroad.com/2009/01/portland-group/comments/atom.xml/CJ commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536effcfa970b2009-01-27T03:30:20Z2009-01-27T03:30:20ZCJPhilip, you're showing your ignorance. I'm happy you found the caps lock key, although resorting to anger and online ranting...<p>Philip, you&#39;re showing your ignorance. I&#39;m happy you found the caps lock key, although resorting to anger and online ranting on the same talking points simply demonstrates your lack of knowledge on this subject.</p>
<p>Adams is a public servant, who should abide by the same laws he upholds. No 40+ year old public servant should ever be interested in/pursuing a 17 year old, I do not give a crap what you think about the law. It&#39;s the law, if you have a problem with it, then take it to the courts. Adams lied numerous times, and used homophobia as a claim to hide behind his deceit, which is an insult to all of those who have been victims of hate. </p>
<p>Off the record, I am just one of many who have posted comments disagreeing with your attempt to defend Adams. Why have you personally targeted me? Why do you seem to take this so personally?</p>
<p>Either way, I&#39;m done here, now shoo.</p>Philip Wester commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536ed9873970b2009-01-26T09:09:11Z2009-01-26T09:09:11ZPhilip WesterCJ, SHUT UP! Beau was of LEGAL age when Sam "preyed" upon him! LEGAL age. Now who CARES what YOU...<p>CJ, SHUT UP!</p>
<p>Beau was of LEGAL age when Sam &quot;preyed&quot; upon him! LEGAL age. Now who CARES what YOU want and don&#39;t want for your (future?) kids?</p>
<p>Sam did NOTHING illegal here. So unless you have some magical proof that he pursued Beau sexually when he was still 17, SHUT UP about it.</p>
<p>So what if he&#39;s a public official? He didn&#39;t actually break any laws! He just broke an arbitrary taboo where people think 18 yearolds shouldn&#39;t be pursued by 40 yearolds.</p>
<p>Some people just fall in love. If I fall in love with someone twice my age, I won&#39;t CARE they&#39;re twice my age, especially not if they love me back.</p>
<p>Sam did nothing illegal, he wasn&#39;t attracted to Beau because Beau looks 13 or something and STOP bringing NAMBLA up.</p>
<p>NAMBLA wants to have sex with little children, not teenagers close to or actually ABOVE the age of consent, both in actual age and appearance.</p>
<p>Pedophilia is about degree of development, they want kids who LOOK like kids. Beau was neither an actual kid when he had sex with Sam and he certainly didn&#39;t LOOK like a kid.</p>
<p>CJ, stop... talking... now. Unless all you&#39;re going to complain about is Adams lying. Because that&#39;s all you have, a tiny lie about something not at all illegal.</p>TANK commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536f5c475970c2009-01-25T19:57:58Z2009-01-25T19:57:58ZTANKSo, CJ, why are all legal relationships sexaul between an 18 year old and a 42 year old are wrong?...<p>So, CJ, why are all legal relationships sexaul between an 18 year old and a 42 year old are wrong? Are they all (LEGAL relationships) exploitative and harmful to the younger party? No. Personally, they&#39;re pretty disgusting, but ethically, what&#39;s the problem? Also, no to wanting my fictional kids to do that (I&#39;d break the old&#39;s legs), but nonetheless, no ethical problem originates solely from my &quot;distaste,&quot; however extreme. </p>
<p>Once again, lying about who you sleep with is permissable if no laws were broken and no one was harmed based on the fact that strangers do not have any claim in knowing. &quot;It&#39;s none of your business,&quot; is to scream yes.</p>
<p>We both agree that the way he lied--playing the queer card and branding his detractors with the big H, is inexcusable. Enough to resign? I don&#39;t think so.</p>
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<p> </p>ty commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536f594fd970c2009-01-25T18:30:51Z2009-01-25T18:30:51ZtyHmmm seems consentual, nothing to see here MOVE ALONG!!<p>Hmmm seems consentual, nothing to see here MOVE ALONG!!</p>Laurence Ballard commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536ebaf8b970b2009-01-25T16:52:49Z2009-01-25T16:52:49ZLaurence Ballardhttp://aseriesofsmallacts.blogspot.comSam Adams should resign.<p>Sam Adams should resign.</p>BC commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536ea39f1970b2009-01-24T22:26:50Z2009-01-24T22:26:51ZBC Again CJ, still agreeing with you here. Points very well made. People are being so quick to make it a...<p>Again CJ, still agreeing with you here. Points very well made. People are being so quick to make it a homophobic issue. Of course for some nutcases it is about the gay aspect of it. But for me, its about a political figure having sex with a teenager then covering it up. Regardless of sex or orientation. People here do seem to be giving him a pass because he is gay and/or because he is a deomocrat. If we want full acceptance, we need to hold our community members to the same standards as anyone else.</p>CJ commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536ea1647970b2009-01-24T21:07:31Z2009-01-24T21:07:31ZCJLet's stay on topic here, this is not about me, this is about Adams. If everyone wishes to play the...<p>Let&#39;s stay on topic here, this is not about me, this is about Adams. If everyone wishes to play the numbers game, great, go at it. Comparing this to Clinton is different as I do not care what two CONSENTING ADULTS do in their own homes. I would not want my teenager (yes, 17-18 is still a teenager) to be chased by a 40-something year old man. There is a reason why laws exist to PROTECT minors from adults, emotional maturity and authoritative abuse. I&#39;m disgusted that people claim I am being puritanical because I would not want my teenager to be preyed upon by someone not only more than twice their age, but as a public servant holds other people to laws they themselves should abide. This is not about &quot;thought police&quot; (how trite), Adams did not simply THINK about having sex with Breedlove, he met him at 17 and acted by keeping in touch with a minor with the intent on having sex at 18 (and to actually believe they waited is ludicrous). Adams THOUGHTS did not force him to prey upon a minor, Adams&#39; actions did, and as such he should have stayed away from Breedlove from the beginning. There are laws protecting minors for a reason, and comparing this to sodomy laws is comparing apples to oranges. There is no comparison. </p>
<p>Further, the guy not only lied during his campaign, he cried wolf by claiming homophobia as the reason when quite frankly that&#39;s an insult to actual acts of homophobia. The guy got caught with his hands in the proverbial cookie jar, I don&#39;t give a sh*t what he &quot;claims&quot;. First he lied to everyone, not just in public but in a written, published letter and made it record. Now we&#39;re supposed to believe he waited before sleeping with a kid (and please, enough with the bull#s*&amp;t arguments about age and law, whether you agree with it or not, it&#39;s the law, if you take issue with it file suit)??? It&#39;s public record that Adam&#39;s has been unfaithful to his boyfriends, he lied numerous times regarding this relationship and now we&#39;re supposed to believe him???</p>
<p>Yeah, I&#39;m pissed that a public figure, the first openly gay mayor of a large city has been caught in a lie. This paints a bad picture for our community if we don&#39;t hold him to the same standards and laws that we seem all to eager to apply to others such as Sen. Craig, Foley, etc. I&#39;m more pissed that people seem to be giving him a pass because he&#39;s gay. There are more important issues and battles out there guys, holding a freakin&#39; rally in support of a guy who lied about a sexual relationship just because he&#39;s gay doesn&#39;t make much sense. How about getting on the bandwagon for the numerous appeals on Prop 8, or what about the numerous victims of hate that are unreported each day? </p>
<p>I&#39;m sorry I finally voiced my opinion on this matter, it seems a lot of people feel very passionately about a mayor who lied about sleeping with a 17 or 18 or whatever year old kid. Kudos, we should be so proud we have come this far.</p>TANK commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e9e6ac970b2009-01-24T19:28:33Z2009-01-24T19:28:33ZTANKEndorsing "arbitrary" age of consent laws does not equate to sexphobia. This and the multicult arguments are the same offered...<p>Endorsing &quot;arbitrary&quot; age of consent laws does not equate to sexphobia. This and the multicult arguments are the same offered by the NAMBLA people, and doing it is deeply misguided for many reasons...not the least of which is confirmation of the gay man=pederast stereotype. </p>
<p>Of course ages of consent varies from state to state and country to country, but study after study after study indicates lasting psychological trauma for minors who have sex with sig older people (penetrative sex, esp.). And notice that there aren&#39;t any--or many--age of consent laws that surpass twenty...they all seem to be pretty close in proximity to each other, which, when averaged, indicates anything but an arbitrary number. This traverses the cultural &quot;divide&quot;--mere irrelevant exotica played up by certain cultural anthrops to shock people. Exceptions? Yeah. </p>
<p>But there is no evidence--NONE--to suggest that adams broke the law here. Until you can provide any evidence that would be admissable in court, shut the hell up about it, and concern yourselves with the facts, not the speculation.</p>Kevinvt commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536f38535970c2009-01-24T19:03:05Z2009-01-24T19:03:06ZKevinvthttp://community.middlebury.edu/~moss/"Ok "curious", you have your opinions and I'll respect the law. This is about the law," OK, CJ -- before...<p>&quot;Ok &quot;curious&quot;, you have your opinions and I&#39;ll respect the law. This is about the law,&quot;</p>
<p>OK, CJ -- before 2003 does that mean you didn&#39;t have sex in states where sodomy was against the law? Because it was still against the law in many states.</p>
<p>When people say &quot;it&#39;s not about the sex, it&#39;s about lying&quot; (Clinton, anyone?) it&#39;s ALWAYS about the sex. It&#39;s as clear a sign to me as beginning a sentence with &quot;I&#39;m not homophobic, but...&quot; which is always homophobic.</p>
<p>Get over sex phobia, guys, and your lives will be happier.</p>So Left I'm Right commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536f376d7970c2009-01-24T18:28:51Z2009-01-24T18:28:51ZSo Left I'm RightCJ, if the age of consent was 17, would that make a difference? The age of consent is a fairly...<p>CJ, if the age of consent was 17, would that make a difference? The age of consent is a fairly arbitrary number. No one claims to have been exploited or abused here, and in point of fact, there doesn&#39;t seem to be any actual crime committed based on the arbitrary age of consent of 18 in this particular location. Bad judgement, for sure, but you&#39;re essentially accusing him of a thought crime. There are 25 year olds who look 16, and 15 year olds who look 21. The facts matter, not mere thoughts of attraction.</p>CJ commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e9a4cf970b2009-01-24T17:04:31Z2009-01-24T17:04:31ZCJPhilip, I see my mistake. My comment should has read "it's not JUST about", typo on my part...<p>Philip, I see my mistake. My comment should has read &quot;it&#39;s not JUST about&quot;, typo on my part...</p>Cj commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e9a13b970b2009-01-24T16:55:58Z2009-01-24T16:55:58ZCjPhilip, reread my comments. I never retracted my statement regarding his predatory relationship with a minor, I simply reiterated my...<p>Philip, reread my comments. I never retracted my statement regarding his predatory relationship with a minor, I simply reiterated my other point that so many glossed over. I suppose it&#39;s easier to focus on what aligns with your own beliefs and to disregard the rest, I never claimed to disregard anything I stated since, as you so calmly pointed out, my comments would prove otherwise. I simply reiterated my other points that others reiterated with their commentary... Why are people attacking others over this ridiculous issue? Does the anonymity of the internet make it easier to lash out?</p>
<p>There&#39;s a lot of anger going on, a lot of people seem to be taking this personally. Breath, relax, less caffeine might help...</p>Philip Wester commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e925aa970b2009-01-24T10:41:21Z2009-01-24T10:41:21ZPhilip Wester@CJ Oh, it's NOT about Adams having sex with someone 17/18/19? Then what the HELL was all that ranting about...<p>@CJ</p>
<p>Oh, it&#39;s NOT about Adams having sex with someone 17/18/19? Then what the HELL was all that ranting about being sexually attracted to a 17 yearold (who looked legal) and NAMBLA? I love revisionist history!</p>
<p>He lied, yeah. And that&#39;s not to be defended. No one&#39;s claimed otherwise. YOU, however, jumped down his (and OUR) throat for a lot of stuff besides lying.</p>
<p>Your comments haven&#39;t magically disappeared.</p>Bill commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536f2b3db970c2009-01-24T08:56:05Z2009-01-24T08:56:05ZBillSam Adams did nothing wrong. He should not cave to anti-gay bigotry. Stay in office Sam. SUPPORT SAM ADAMS http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=46090272767&ref=nf<p>Sam Adams did nothing wrong. He should not cave to anti-gay bigotry. Stay in office Sam.</p>
<p>SUPPORT SAM ADAMS<br />
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=46090272767&amp;ref=nf</p>CJ commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536f262f9970c2009-01-24T03:39:18Z2009-01-24T03:39:18ZCJHonestly, I love your comment, and I quote "It will make you look more smarter." More smarter... Um, ok. Wasn't...<p>Honestly, I love your comment, and I quote &quot;It will make you look more smarter.&quot; More smarter... Um, ok. Wasn&#39;t that a quote in &quot;Drop Dead Gorgeous&quot;?</p>
<p>Moving on. I&#39;m glad at least some people have seen my point. As I was attempting to state, it&#39;s not about Adams having sex with a 17/18/19 year old, but about his deception, and attempts at hiding it then screaming homophobia to those questioning his actions. Adams lied about a legitimate issue during his campaign, then hid behind a real issue that many gay men and women face every day. Adams should be ashamed... and so should those who have defended his actions. </p>Aiden Raccoon commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e89728970b2009-01-24T02:46:07Z2009-01-24T02:46:07ZAiden RaccoonI am seriously on the fence with this one. I think what I am going to have to say is...<p>I am seriously on the fence with this one. I think what I am going to have to say is to let Adams keep his job. I don&#39;t like the fact that this is a stereotypical incident, but I would also not want him to go out on this lingering in everyone&#39;s minds either. Give him a chance to do a good job and be remembered for that.</p>
<p>It may be naive to assume that he didn&#39;t have sex with the 17 year old but there isn&#39;t any facts backing this up so that is not a crime that should be brought up. I hope he stays in office I think.</p>Will commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e847f7970b2009-01-23T23:08:56Z2009-01-23T23:08:56ZWillBTW, did any of you think that it is because this country is soooo homophobic and puritanical that he felt...<p>BTW, did any of you think that it is because this country is soooo homophobic and puritanical that he felt he had to lie??</p>
<p>What also drives me batshit crazy is this constant projection that if a gay person does something bad, it reflects badly on all gays. And, boy, are some of you projecting when it comes to being afraid to be in any way associated with someone who had sex with a legal 18 year old. Judge, judge, judge. That is the one thing this country does better than killing people.</p>Will commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e84278970b2009-01-23T22:55:20Z2009-01-23T22:55:20ZWillAll this does is reinforce my belief that I would never want to be a politician. Many of you Americans...<p>All this does is reinforce my belief that I would never want to be a politician. Many of you Americans are nuts, constantly expecting your politicians to be virtuous angels. What a load of crap. Plus, this whole, ahem, affair stinks to high heaven of homophobia. First you argue that it was inappropriate since he was the kid&#39;s boss. Since that is not the case, now its all about some older man being a perv with a younger man. Christ, this puritanical country drives me batshit crazy.</p>
<p>I suugest we start with the proposition that the question should never have been asked in the first place because it was inappropriate. If any mistake was made, or if anything illegal happened, it was that the mayor was stupid to answer the question. And stupidity is not a &quot;firing&quot; offence when it comes to politicians.</p>Jay commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e83fdc970b2009-01-23T22:49:21Z2009-01-23T22:49:21ZJayTank: you're right. It's a very gray area when examining that power imbalance issue. Precisely why someone running for public...<p>Tank: you&#39;re right. It&#39;s a very gray area when examining that power imbalance issue. Precisely why someone running for public office, knowing fully how intrusive press can be, should consider the appearance of things before taking action. I don&#39;t know if he&#39;s telling the truth or not about Beau Breedlove&#39;s age at the time. Likewise, I have no idea if Breedlove is/was emotionally mature for his age. I just know that, as you stated so well, Adam&#39;s attack while lying about his actions makes it all look bad. It&#39;s all about perception when you&#39;re in the public eye.</p>Robert Scoles commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536f1da88970c2009-01-23T22:04:51Z2009-01-23T22:04:51ZRobert ScolesWhat kills me is that that who you have sex with is really a personal matter. I don't see that...<p>What kills me is that that who you have sex with is really a personal matter. I don&#39;t see that it should ever a matter of debate. There is nothing that says you have to answer this question. I do not know how many men I have seen get into a problem with this question, where they tell the truth or not. Although I think too often the first response is the little boy who doesn&#39;t want to get into trouble so he lies. </p>TANK commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e82032970b2009-01-23T21:47:25Z2009-01-23T21:47:25ZTANKAnd if we're going to talk about power imbalances in relationships...we're going to have a very gray time of it....<p>And if we&#39;re going to talk about power imbalances in relationships...we&#39;re going to have a very gray time of it. Intelligence creates a power imbalance in relationships of people of the same age. Experience--where the younger party is more experienced than the older....that&#39;s a particularly worthless point. </p>TANK commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e81c43970b2009-01-23T21:39:51Z2009-01-23T21:39:52ZTANKAsking him if he had sex with an underaged person is basically the equivalent of asking if he'd broken the...<p>Asking him if he had sex with an underaged person is basically the equivalent of asking if he&#39;d broken the law. That&#39;s a legitimate question. But, if we assume only what we&#39;ve evidence to assume, he told the truth when he said no. </p>
<p>Now, imagine someone coming up to you on the street and asking if you slept with someone. Perfect stranger asking you. You could say it&#39;s none of your business, but if you could say that, why couldn&#39;t you lie? If they don&#39;t have the right or ethical claim to know in the first place, then misleading them (keeping them ignorant) is permissable if no laws were broken and no one was harmed. That is perfectly consistent with integrity we hold to our elected officials and ourselves. </p>
<p>Once again, it is the way that Adams lied (demonizing those who accused him by calling them homophobic, thus trivializing homophobia) that he is at fault for, not that he lied. Nuance, people...it&#39;s the stuff of ethical reasoning.</p>Brandon commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536f1c962970c2009-01-23T21:33:49Z2009-01-23T21:33:49ZBrandonBC: we must have been channeling each other.<p>BC: we must have been channeling each other. </p>BC commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e815d7970b2009-01-23T21:27:52Z2009-01-23T21:27:53ZBCCJ: I can't believe we agree on something! Although like others have said, I love that there is a gay...<p>CJ: I can&#39;t believe we agree on something! Although like others have said, I love that there is a gay mayor of a major city, however, he needs to be held to the SAME standard as anyone else. An adult straight politician who &quot;waited&quot; till a girl was 18 would be considered a pervert, even a predator. I do not believe that Mr. Adams is either pervert or predator, however it shows bad judgment. </p>
<p>I&#39;m sure we all have seen some very attractive, &quot;older looking&quot; 16 or 17 year olds in our time as out adults. But those of us with good judgment decide that we cannot persue the issue and then let it drop. Someone in politics in this day and age ought to know that every single action will be under a microscope - ESPECIALLY when he is gay and the misconduct involves sex. If he wrote a bad check, big deal.</p>
<p>I truly do not think this is a Gay issue (like Prop 8 or other civil rights). I really see this as an ethical issue. He is not being attacked because he is gay. He is being attacked because of his poor judgment. I&#39;m not sure if he should resign, and frankly it won&#39;t affect my life if he does or doesn&#39;t. But I don&#39;t like seeing people in the gay community supporting ANYONE just because they are gay. Even if they do something wrong.</p>Brandon commented on 'Portland Group to Rally in Support of Mayor Sam Adams'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c730253ef010536e815c5970b2009-01-23T21:27:43Z2009-01-23T21:27:44ZBrandonI don't live in Portland so I don't have a true dog in the hunt, but I think people should...<p>I don&#39;t live in Portland so I don&#39;t have a true dog in the hunt, but I think people should be critical of the mayor&#39;s conduct. Since when did lying about ANYTHING suddenly become ok? We&#39;ve got posters suggesting that it was ok to lie because the media should not have asked questions about his sex life. Does that mean that now we only expect integrity of our public servants when it is CONVENIENT? Is this really what we&#39;ve come to as a society? Rationalizing dishonesty. Hmm. Exactly where does one draw the line . . . . </p>
<p>Asking a public official if he had a sexual relationship with someone that was underage is a legitimate question because that relationship may have violated the law. And if Adams thought the question was out of bounds, how about simply saying: &quot;my private life is none of your business.&quot; Or, &quot;I am offended at your suggestion that I would sleep with someone underage.&quot; Lying was not his only option.</p>
<p>While I&#39;m concerned that someone vastly older could unduly influence a teenager to engage in a sexual relationship, I have no clue whether the relationship was consensual. However, if it was, why LIE about its existence in the first place? </p>
<p>I think the guy has questionable judgment especially AFTER the national spectacle of the Lewinsky scandal. Imagine what would have happened if Bill had simply said, it&#39;s none of your business. No perjury trap. And telling folks you are a mentor for someone as a cover for your relationship, that&#39;s terrible. I am in a professional organization where folks mentor grad students. I wouldn&#39;t sleep with a mentee out of respect for that relationship--despite the fact that I&#39;m mentoring people that are at least 22. </p>
<p>Should Adams resign? That&#39;s for his constituents to decide. But, I don&#39;t want us tying ourselves up in knots to defend someone just because he&#39;s gay.</p>