You would get better treatment as a prisoner of war, then the children being held at Trumps “summer camps” for immigrant children. Televised DOJ lawyer trying to defend a policy holding basic necessities for sanitary humane treatment was a joke. Pence wasn’t much better in an interview pressing him on why these children are sleeping on concrete floors with only a foil blanket without access to soap, toothbrushes or blankets; actually laughing at the thought the administration was being questioned about it. All these pour children are pawns in an evil game Trump is playing.

right. and whoever crafted the brilliant policy which says that family units, even if fake, get preferential
treatment, and no one predicted that would create a huge surge in families crossing, which we have no infrastructure for.

is trump eating those children yet? can’t be far off.Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

right. and whoever crafted the brilliant policy which says that family units, even if fake, get preferential
treatment, and no one predicted that would create a huge surge in families crossing, which we have no infrastructure for.

is trump eating those children yet? can’t be far off.Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No. He only eats well done burgers with ketchup and KFC....Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^^^^^^^^^^^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"

Trumps using the kids as pawns, just who is playing the other side. I know you don’t buy he made this so much worse with policy and a complete lack of compassion by separating over 3000 kids, so I won’t debate it. My point which had nothing to do with how it was created, was that the administration is basically involved in child abuse on a massive scale and is ok with it, holding out for more money. Now it’s in the spotlight and it’s shameful to see a DOJ lawyer and Pence suggest it’s anything other than what it is.Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It’s almost like when the Cubans sent up all their challenged citizens to Fla. They send a bunch of sick folks up north to strike it rich. A gold rush of sorts. Things will change soon,and for the better. Just wait...soon you will see a checkmate.Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"In an attempt to justify Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s absurd comparison of American detention facilities to Holocaust-era concentration camps, many figures within the media have shared a viral video clip of a legal hearing in which a Department of Justice attorney debates a panel of judges as to what constitutes “sanitary conditions.” The majority of the shares were of a version put out by NowThis News, which claimed that the video shows a Trump administration official arguing that “children don’t need soap, toothbrushes, or beds to be ‘safe and sanitary’ while in Border Patrol custody.” The claim has led to several days of outrage, and has been used repeatedly as evidence that the current administration is being intentionally cruel to migrant children. Countless journalists, along with clickbait outlets such as The Hill and the Huffington Post, have highlighted the video inside this framing.

Unsurprisingly, it is not that simple. Indeed, the hearing in the video was related not to actions taken by the Trump administration, but to a challenge of a 2017 ruling that the CBP under the Obama administration had violated the Flores Settlement agreement with its treatment of children in custody. The judge in that case cited specific infractions that she felt were in violation of the “safe and sanitary” requirement under the Flores agreement and recommended a special monitor be appointed to ensure these facilities were complying with the original standard. The DOJ attorney in the video, Sarah Fabian, was not arguing that the United States should decline to provide those items to children, but rather that the Flores Settlement agreement didn’t specifically require those items. The notoriously liberal Ninth Circuit judges disagreed with this argument, preferring to read Flores narrowly. Fabian has been arguing similar cases on behalf of the Justice Department for years; that is her job. Some of her legal arguments have upset immigration advocates before. But they have never led to this type of media coverage, or to the claim that her fulfilling her legal role is indicative of a moral shortcoming.

Predictably, the vast majority of the people and the outlets that shared this exchange failed to note that the violations being discussed had occurred during the previous administration, while those who did know failed to ask themselves (and others) why the violations didn’t receive similar coverage when they were first exposed. Instead, they jumped straight to the conclusion that the federal government, headed up by President Trump, was deliberately inflicting pain on babies. This isn’t true."

"It wasn’t true during the Obama administration either. Then, as now, the violations weren’t part of an intentional or evil ploy, but were the product of the system’s being overloaded. Then, as now, the intended care at these facilities was humane, and consistent within the requirement under Flores. In 2014, the Obama administration was dealing with a serious crisis: a large influx of unaccompanied minors that strained the facilities. In 2019, the Trump administration is dealing with a serious crisis: a large influx of unaccompanied minors that strains the facilities. In consequence, across multiple years and multiple administrations, the DOJ has repeatedly argued in court that the Flores Settlement agreement should be read narrowly, or allow for exceptions in difficult times. Certainly, governments make mistakes. Certainly, some facilities have taken shortcuts, as the result of either bureaucratic incompetence or limited resources. But those infractions will be fixed by additional funding, additional facilities, better oversight, and quicker processing, not by pretending that the president is a tyrant. The situation at the border is a difficult one, but selective outrage based on misleading facts won’t do much to address it.

This incident has been reminiscent of the recent outrage over pictures of “kids in cages” at detention facilities that, after a period, were revealed to date from the Obama administration. And, like that one, it has done a great deal of damage to our institutions, not only because it seems to neutral observers that the media gauges newsworthiness based on who is in the White House, but because the selective coverage and focus on imagined motives rather than real structural problems permits members of Congress to deflect from their own inaction, and thereby to ensure that the issues will continue ad nauseam."

There is the rest of it Scott

carry on

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

"In an attempt to justify Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s absurd comparison of American detention facilities to Holocaust-era concentration camps, many figures within the media have shared a viral video clip of a legal hearing in which a Department of Justice attorney debates a panel of judges as to what constitutes “sanitary conditions.” The majority of the shares were of a version put out by NowThis News, which claimed that the video shows a Trump administration official arguing that “children don’t need soap, toothbrushes, or beds to be ‘safe and sanitary’ while in Border Patrol custody.” The claim has led to several days of outrage, and has been used repeatedly as evidence that the current administration is being intentionally cruel to migrant children. Countless journalists, along with clickbait outlets such as The Hill and the Huffington Post, have highlighted the video inside this framing.

Unsurprisingly, it is not that simple. Indeed, the hearing in the video was related not to actions taken by the Trump administration, but to a challenge of a 2017 ruling that the CBP under the Obama administration had violated the Flores Settlement agreement with its treatment of children in custody. The judge in that case cited specific infractions that she felt were in violation of the “safe and sanitary” requirement under the Flores agreement and recommended a special monitor be appointed to ensure these facilities were complying with the original standard. The DOJ attorney in the video, Sarah Fabian, was not arguing that the United States should decline to provide those items to children, but rather that the Flores Settlement agreement didn’t specifically require those items. The notoriously liberal Ninth Circuit judges disagreed with this argument, preferring to read Flores narrowly. Fabian has been arguing similar cases on behalf of the Justice Department for years; that is her job. Some of her legal arguments have upset immigration advocates before. But they have never led to this type of media coverage, or to the claim that her fulfilling her legal role is indicative of a moral shortcoming.

Predictably, the vast majority of the people and the outlets that shared this exchange failed to note that the violations being discussed had occurred during the previous administration, while those who did know failed to ask themselves (and others) why the violations didn’t receive similar coverage when they were first exposed. Instead, they jumped straight to the conclusion that the federal government, headed up by President Trump, was deliberately inflicting pain on babies. This isn’t true."

Does that change the circumstances under which these children are being held? That is a BS argument, the over crowding, unsanitary conditions, lack a bare necessities, all reported by anyone who has visited them (not in this administration) is why the media is all over this. Trump can rob other funds, but sees no need to do anything to supply the funds and staffing needed there, not unless it’s tied to other things he wants.

The GOP won’t vote on a single piece of legislation, yet they hold these kids hostage to leverage something they want. Your argument is like looking at a ten car pile up on the expressway and spending a month debating who is at fault, while leaving commuters to find another way into the city. The mess exists stop the BS and clean up the mess your policies help create.Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Your argument is like looking at a ten car pile up on the expressway and spending a month debating who is at fault, while leaving commuters to find another way into the city. The mess exists stop the BS and clean up the mess your policies help create.Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Your argument is like looking at me bringing my kids along on a home invasion, then blaming DSS because my kids are in crappy foster care.

Last edited by The Dad Fisherman; 06-25-2019 at 07:46 AM..

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."

I never saw the outrage from 2008 to 2016 about facilities used in detaining people illegally entering the country. Ironically this is where and when a lot of the rage photos come from...

Bad people traffic these kids, often without family, for the purpose of making money. There is a massive economy in transporting people from other countries to our country for a chance to live under the radar, knowing there is a high probability of being caught.

The people coming here are frequently robbed, raped, beaten, and sometimes even killed.

And people on the left wield it as a tool from 2000 to 2008 and from 2016 to now, all the while calling anyone that disagrees will illegal immigration as heartless racists, xenophobes, and nazis .

You know what would have been the proper and legal solution to this?

A long time ago, close the border and increase LEGAL IMMIGRATION. That is how it should have been done legally.

(side note, if Democrats really cared about illegal immigrants they would prevent them from coming here so as not to die from Net Neutrality)

I've heard people used to make the same excuses about Jews and slaves.

You are partially correct. With the Slaves, bad people made money and politics by taking people from another place and bring them somewhere else (though most of those people were brought someplace other than the USA).

With the Jews many were rounded up and put in actual, ya know real and not imagined, concentration camps. One important difference, Jews were taken against their will by actual Nazis to these camps, tortured and often killed.

Illegal Immigrants come here hoping to circumvent the law and somehow being able to stay.