Ask the Rabbi/Psychologist: Mother-In-Law from Hell

Should I tell my husband it’s me or her?

My husband and I have been married for eight years. We have three children and are usually happy. We fight most of the time over his mother. She is widowed and lives just down the street. She comes over four to five times a day which started right after we got married. Five minutes after he got home she would be at the door. Several years ago I found out she made her own key to our house without our knowledge from a set that was accidentally left at her house. She has no problem using it and just walking in when she feel like it. She tells lies around town about me and when confronted, denies it. I have caught her myself.

My husband refuses to believe the incident saying it was taken out of context. She has input on everything from the TV we watch when she is here, to telling my children how to behave. I feel that I am the outsider in "their" marriage and am about at the end of my rope. I am considering a divorce, but would like to save my marriage. I can't do it alone. I need help from someone.

Dr. Michael Tobin's Answer:

I read your letter a few times and after each reading, I said to myself, "How is it possible that in the same paragraph that she writes about the mother-in-law from hell, she describes her marriage as 'usually happy'?" Something doesn't compute. Your description of your mother-in-law puts new meaning on the word "intrusive." What's even more problematic is the fact that your husband doesn't seem to get it. As you see it, your husband is more interested in his mother's welfare than he is in yours. The picture that you describe is absolute poison for a marriage.

So when you describe your marriage as "usually happy," it more than begs the question of how it's possible for you and your husband to put aside your chronic mother-in-law crises - especially since she's in your space five times a day - and still connect as husband and wife.

The Torah says, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave unto his wife" (Genesis 1:24). In other words, the first principle of marriage is that a husband must establish a new family and that new family takes precedence over his family of origin. The health of a marriage has a great deal to do with the boundaries that a couple establishes to protect and preserve the marriage. Just as you don't invite your children into the middle of your marriage, you also don't invite your respective families either.

A man who is still attached to his mother in an unhealthy bond is unable to create a mature relationship with his wife. Although this is not the format to go into a detailed psychological explanation to prove the efficacy of that statement, suffice it to say there are no exceptions. To put it simply, it makes sense that you're suffering. The situation is untenable and if it continues, it will lead to divorce or a lifetime of marital misery.

You and your husband need to be on the same team.

If anything is going to change with your mother-in-law, you and your husband need to be on the same team. Where is he in all of this? He may not believe that his mother told lies about you, but how does he feel about the amount of intrusion that you experience from his mother? What was his response to her letting herself in to your house and parenting your children? If there is any agreement between the two of you about the inappropriateness of her behavior, you may be able to work together to set some boundaries.

Perhaps your mother-in-law would be open to some gentle help from her son to "getting a life of her own." If your husband doesn't understand your distress and his role in it, you may have to force him to choose who he wants to be married to - you or his mother. You don't treat cancer with a band-aid and you don't cure an in-law problem of this magnitude without being willing to confront the problem directly. I would suggest that you make it an absolute condition that he join you in therapy.

Your husband needs help in understanding the ties that bind him to his mother and how to extricate himself from this relationship. Undoubtedly, he will have to deal with her rage and/or depression as a a reaction to any attempt he makes to create healthy boundaries. He will need your support and understanding through this process and you will both will need the guidance of a professional.

I encourage you to take immediate action in order to save a marriage that I can only assume has a great capacity for happiness.

Rabbi Yaacov Haber's Answer:

So you have three children, are ‘usually happy’ and are considering a divorce. Why? Because you married your husband and not his mother; your ability as a wife and mother are being questioned and scrutinized, and your privacy is being invaded.

I suppose the most obvious answer to this painful situation is to do whatever it takes to get your mother-in-law out of your house and life. Being that the only person who can really achieve this is your husband, you could simply tell him, ‘It’s your mother or me!’ In other words, he has to be a man and stand up to his mother.

Bad advice. I wonder if doing this would make things better or worse.

In all likelihood, you will be viewed as the insecure, paranoid, selfish wife missing the basic respect that one should have for the previous generation. It certainly won’t hush your mother in law – in fact, it will probably do the opposite - and it’s quite possible that your ‘usually happy’ marriage will turn sour with an irreparable breach between your husband and yourself.

When you married your husband, you also married a family with all its positives and negatives.

What’s the other option? The more difficult one. Understand that when you married your husband you did marry his mother, because you married a family with all of its positive and negative points. Your mother-in-law is a challenge but at the same time she is a reality in your life. She is as real as one of your children, your financial situation or any health issues that may be abound.

God sometimes challenges our lives in an uncomfortable way because He wants us to reach our full potential in life. We can push away the discomfort and search for relief, or we can look at life's situations and struggles as opportunities to confront ourselves and who we really are.

There is no doubt that you are in a difficult situation. But even if you can’t change the externals of the situation, you can change how it affects you inside.

Think to yourself: Why does it bother you so much what your mother-in-law thinks of you? Why would you think of divorce if you are ‘usually happy’ and have three children? I’m sorry to be harsh but considering the severity of the situation and the lack of other options, perhaps it is time you address your own insecurities and teach yourself to rise above.

First of all, make sure that your mother-in-law’s criticisms are not true. Introspection is the first and main step to growth. Have a meeting with your husband and explain to him that you want to grow together, and as individuals in your partnership. Tell him that you yearn to be a team.

When you are sure that your own house is in order and your partnership is solid and confirmed, the two of you should sit down with his mother and explain to her, with one voice, how you respect and appreciate her and how you want her to be part of the family. Have a conversation about how you want your home to be; about how decisions are made in the family and how privacy is honored. Invite her to be part of the family, according to the principles of the family.

Be secure with yourself and your husband, take charge of your lives and live happily ever after.

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About the Author

Dr. Michael Tobin has been a practicing psychologist for 38 years, and for the past 25 years he's been in private practice in Jerusalem. He specializes in marriage and family therapy and has been a professional trainer and supervisor since 1992. He has led numerous workshops for couples in Israel and the United States and developed an interactive series of family dramas that were performed throughout Israel . Dr. Tobin is the founder of the critically acclaimed website, www.wholefamily.com, which received finalist status in the family category of the internet academy awards. Dr. Tobin is the author of numerous articles on marriage and family and is the co-author of a book on marriage published in English, Hebrew, and German. Dr. Tobin is married to Dr. Deborah Risk Tobin and they have lived in Efrat with their family since they made aliyah in 1986.

Rabbi Yaacov Haber is the Spiritual Leader of Kehillat Shivtei Yeshurun, a thriving young congregation of new Olim in Ramat Beit Shemesh, Israel; the founder and driving force behind TorahLab, and a founding partner of Mosaica Press. He is the author of numerous books in Hebrew and English including the best-selling “Sefiros; a program for spiritual refinement”; Rabbi Haber is a sought after international lecturer.

A leading force in Jewish Outreach for the past 30 years, Rabbi Haber is a founding trustee of AJOP, the Association of Jewish Outreach Professionals, the founder and director of the Torah Center of Buffalo where he served as a community rabbi. From Buffalo he and his family traveled to Melbourne, Australia where he founded a national outreach and adult education program. In 1995 he was sought out as National Director of Jewish Education for the Orthodox Union in the United States where he created the Internationally acclaimed and highly successful "Pardes Project." At that time he became the spiritual leader of Congregation Bais Torah in Monsey, NY.

Through TorahLab and Mosaica Press, Rabbi Haber is bringing together educational and media specialists to create dynamic learning experiences which will be accessible to adults of all backgrounds and levels.

Visitor Comments: 88

(69)
Heidi Stokes,
November 9, 2014 9:01 AM

A control mother in law

My mother in law interferes with our plans since we got married. She always likes to contra my husband, and I am getting tired of it. She likes to control our money, likes to control when we should have our children and gets upset that we don't celebrate the holidays of this world. He is the only son. My husband is in denial because he does want to see or accept what his mother does. Even my parents found out how she treats me. I am tired of it. What can i do?

(68)
Christine Nation,
June 22, 2014 6:14 PM

Doing my mother in laws job

My time is devoted to caring for my husband’s Grandmother, which is often, times is harder than you would think. I know that this is not my family but I am married in the mix. How would you deal with the mother in law and her sister not helping at all? Their answers are that they have their life to live and their mother is not their responsible. Your brother in law comes 2 times a week if he is not business and all he does he to tell you how is life is much harder than yours. (Keep in mind all he has is a husband, dog, and two cats and they are freelancer). My husband work 40 hours a week and is there in the morning to help until he goes to works. His grandmother Hits, slap, kick and punch me and call me names but no one believes me they say all I do is complaining because their grandmother would never do those things. I feel depress and used by my in laws because my husband and I are grandchildren and this was his grandmother only option because no one else would take her in. I think this is me just venting because I feel that I cannot talk to his family because they see this as my duties to the family so they can all live their lives while I feel like I am dyeing.I also work fulltime and go to school full time and take care of her full time. When my husband comes home I go to work at night and see clients. 90 % of the time is it me with this person alone. I know my husband is there for me but we can only do so much. I am so tried and in pain. Yes, he has tried to talk with his mother and she told him that I was the worst person (that I am not the daughter in law she wanted) in the world and that I am the reason she does not come to see her mother. Which I believe is an excuse not to come her way of getting out of help. His Auntie just does no call or show up at all. But, I am the one that is caring for her mother or and she is under the impression that when she is old and ready that I will take care of her (lol it hurts)

(67)
Beryl,
April 23, 2014 4:26 PM

Be Fair And Kind To The Wife.

Where are the other grown children. Can't the mother in law also get her needs met from her other grown children. Nana you are so correct. The other commenter who spoke of the wife as being insecure, is so wrong. Wives have the right to not allow their mother in laws to control their homes, use a key and walk into the house, supposed they are nude and in bed, then what? Also, a husband who is not respecting his wife is wrong . If I was the wife I would tell him to move in with his mom for as long as she needs him. Then the wife can have some well deserved peace and quite from a disrespectful husband and rude mother in law.

To all the people who continually say that when you marry someone, you marry their whole original family. THAT is so not true and we need to stop saying it. The mates original family is his or her original family and the other spouse really owes notheing to that family. Out of human decency she can treat them with can be cordialness, but you all have got to stop saying that she married the whole family. That is not fair. Also, when a husband ignores his wife's discomfort from his mother, then the wife has a right to ignore his needs until he sees and admits how he is hurting her.

She could tell him that he is not being the husband that God expects him to be and until he gets his act together hat she will not do her wifely duties. Why are you all giving the husband a free pass to allow his mother to disrespect his wife. I can bet that if the situation was reversed, that you all would be scolding the wife and telling her that she is doing the husband wrong and that he will cheat if she does not listen to his complaints.

Why do we scold women when the husband allows someone to hurt her, but do not scold the husband when he allows his wife to be done wrong? Why are we in this society and this world tlike that? 4-23-14

(66)
Anonymous,
October 14, 2013 6:58 PM

your comments helped me

It was very useful for me to read the original letter and all the responses. I thought I was isolated with my problem and now I feel more connected and reassured. My mother in law is not very nice. She did not like me at all when we met and for 5 years she made comments that hurt my feelings. Whenever I told my husband, he would reply that I do not understand his wonderful mother. I am a professor and scientist working in an Ivy League School and my mother in law went as far as telling me that my job was worthless. My husband is constantly checking his phone, even during moments of intimacy, in case she calls. She is constantly nagging about things and he lives his life to please her. Sometimes even saying irrational things. In 6.5 years we never went on vacation or left New York for more than 3 days because he cannot be far away from his mother. He told me that he feels extremely anxious when he is far away from her. I am not sure how you can make a relationship succeed when your husband does not want to listen in the first place. Although I found the advice of the Rabbis very positive, I don't think that advice can work with a completely brain washed person. I would like to know if some of the people that wrote on this blog are still married or they ended up divorcing. I love my husband but sometimes I do not see a a feasible solution.

Anonymous,
November 14, 2013 3:38 PM

Anonymous - it's tough but dont give up!

Anonymous, the comment u posted on 10/14/13 broke my heart. You have a really tough situation. I have a bad MIL but my husband mostly agrees with my grievances when she is rude, hurtful, or deceitful. It took us a while to get there (3 yrs too!) but it helped that I took my father's advice:DONT PUT HER DOWN IN HIS EYES, AND WORK ON MAKING YOUR CONNECTION WITH HIM THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE THAT HIS HAS IN THIS WORLD.

To my dad's first point, when highlighting something she did to hurt or offend me, I always state what her perspective probably was - AND I GIVE HER THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. Similarly, I do pay compliments about her to him about how she did such a great job raising her kids and how I admire her strength and faith.

I also say many nice things about his mom.

Turning to hear, I launched a quest to get her to feel a little less antagonistic towards me (my crime? marrying her beloved, favorite son). How? 1. Inviting her sometimes and saying Now is not a good time other times. This way the control of our space and time turns to us and but she isnt being shut out 2. Thoughtful gifts for mom's day, and birthdays, and anything else! I bought her a necklace from amazon that had inscribed something beautiful about Mothers, and she cherishes is. It brought her closer to me. 3. When she gives unsolicited advice - treat it as advice from your manicurist. You nod, smile, say hmmm interesting. Perhaps t hat would work though this is my concern X, but I'll think about it, thanks!!!!!!!! And that validation is all she needs. Go on and do whatever the heck you wanna do, btw.

Last part is working on your relationship with him. This is general marriage building and there are many great books out there to help (and articles on Aish actually!). We like "Getting the Love you need."

PS a good inlaw book: Toxic In Laws - Loving Strategies for Protecting your Marriage. Good luck!!! STAY STRONG! You guys are worth the effort!!

(65)
neha,
September 16, 2013 6:49 AM

your mother in law is your family

you talk to your mother in law directly , what you like and dislike,, and her interference is spoiling your married life..

you dont forget that your mother in law is widow and she is also your husband's responsiblity just like your are and she if she is parenting her grand child its not something you call marriage breaker reasons. try to devleop good relation with her.. you cant just side out her from family. your husband needs you also so dont ask him to choose btw you n his mother. you sound bit insecure. your insecurity is reason for your marriage problems.. talk to your husband and mother in law. and say you dont like much interference of you mother in law.

anonymous,
January 29, 2014 8:53 AM

Agree to Disagree

Some of what ur saying is true. I have also been involved in the same type of relationship with mil.(9years). Do not ever call it insecuritys!!!. Its a lack of respect for you!!!! No one has the right to treat anyone so rude. Especially the woman who is going to be there for her precious son when MIL passes on. The MIL is doing it for the control, seems to be like a drug for her. Stop giving her control over you, shell freak out , then find someone else. Lay boundaries and stay firm, just like you would for your children. Everything will be ok, stay strong.

Beryl,
April 23, 2014 4:01 PM

Unfair and Disrespectful To The Wife

That is so wrong and so disrespectful to the poor wife what you wrote. 4-23-14

(64)
Nana,
February 7, 2013 2:48 PM

You cannot win this one my darling

I have been married for 3 years and in all those years I have learnt 2 things:It takes a certain type of man to be able to standup to his mother when they are wrong.
2. Even if you are lucky enough to be married to a man who will be able to see your mother in law's antics, you (the wife) are going to be expected to be understanding and forgiving because "That's just who she is". They have enable her to be insuffereable all these and expect you to join them. I know it does not solve anything but I just stay the hell away from my mother-in-law. I've decided she's bad for my emotional health and to protect my emotional health coz my husband sure wont.
Most times we make so many sacrifices for our husbands and families and forget about ourselves.
You need to do what's best for you coz no one else will. The house you live is also yours so all you need to tell your husband that his mother's presence is detrimental to your health so he must try and be considerate. Suggest for him to visit her instead. Peace

(63)
justaboutfedup,
January 29, 2013 1:25 PM

I'm in pure hell. My mother in law is taking over my parenthood and marriage completely.

My situation is quite worse than what I read anywhere online. Here is a just a few things. My mother in law has went as far as picking out our daughter birthday cake with her father (my husband who I'm with) and both of them did not include me. She tells me my daughter is going to florida (doesn't ask) and makes snobbish comments about me not being able to go if I even mention it (while offer to help with expenses). She insist on having my husband drive her to work (paying for gas) although she has two cars. (she parks hers at my house). She even insist on being apart of the grocery shopping for our house with her my husband before he gets home for work (not including me).Her mother likes me alot now but didn't before she spent time arond me and or his aunts (they were told lies about me, you can guess who told her the lies). They were told I was lazy and keep a dirty house which is not true. (my husband can't a dirty home, he would not be with me if it was true). She even buys separate clothes for my daughter to wear at her house and keep the clothes she buys my daughter at her house. She insist on my daughter going to her church (without ever inviting me). Only time she seems comfortable with me going is if my husband goes with me. She even calls my daughter cell (my daughter is eleven) and tells her when she is getting her (without ever telling me). I don't find out til she shows up. This list of pure disrespect goes on. What makes this bad is that I'm an active mom, take care of my daughter in every way, I home schooled and she went kindergarden early and I educate her at home (she is a honoral student since she been in school). I tried talking to my husband he says he will speak to her and I told him how I felt about him being apart of her disrespect and most times ignore me and reminds me that she has rights to. I say but she is not her mother, I am. Basically she is acting like wife and like she is the mother of our child and won't stop. I may leave.

Anonymous,
April 23, 2014 4:32 PM

You Wife Deserve Respect In your House

And you let her do this? And you allow your husband to tell you his mother has rights to do that? Where is your courage and your backbone.?

Maybe, when he comes to bed at night and reaches for you, you could quickly ge up and tell him that you can not feel intimate with him, until he treats you with the respect that you deserve as the wife and woman of YOUR house and YOUR daughter, whom you gave birth to, not him or his mother. I also would change the daughter's cell number.

(62)
Nik,
January 28, 2013 12:10 PM

Intruding in law

Ive bwen w/my husband ten yrs & from the start his mother didnt like me. Would lie about me, etc. she pretends to be nice or that she likes me but I figured her out a long time ago, I kno the kind of person she is. W/that said, this last few months she has been EXTREMELY intrusive. she is over pretty much evryday, all day, sleeps over, cooks for her other kids & relatives here at my house..even invites other people who I dont kno over! she comes & just starts cleaning, watering my backyard ( I dont have a grass lawn), gives my kids junk, takes over my tv & just acts like this is her house. She leaves her meds & syringes around (diabetic), the knobs on the stove( I took them off b/c my sons like to play with them), she leaves knives within reach.I constantly have to pick up after her b/c I am very careful with what I leave around my kids. And then goes telling him things on how to raise our kids. There is a lot more to what im putting down. And the worst part is whenever I ask my husband to talk to her, he gets mad. He tells me that thats his mom & there s nothing wrong about her coming over & that im trying to make him choose although I explain that I dont mind her visiting just not so frequently. He doesnt get it. We have always gotten along & I can honestly say our only arguements are b/c of
her. We used to hardly ever fight now its practically everyday. We get over it quickly but our, bond isnt as secure as before. Any advice on my situation??

(61)
lisa,
December 22, 2012 6:44 PM

Needy Motherinlaw

I have been living with my mother in law for a year. We moved in to help my husbands parents financial situation. My father i law past away suddenly 6 months ago, My husband had cancer and is recovered well, My mother in law is 65 years old works from home is in good health and complains constantly never cleans I am constantly cleaning up after her like shes a child, she sleeps on couch in living room never sleeps in her room we have no privacy constantly asking us to go to the store do her chores my husband is like her butler, she wants all attention on her and she is only happy when she is spending money I told my husband we need to move on without her I cant do this anymore please help.

(60)
Anonymous,
December 14, 2012 12:57 PM

I have it worse .. I thought but dear lady you have it worse ..

I am married for 15years. Now at forty I am wondering everyday why I hang on so long..
I have wasted my life, youth, time, loyalty , happiness, peace of mind.
Why did I stay with a man who wish to be married both to his mummy n wife. Don't know the difference. His whole life is about to proof how much he will be there for her n no one else matter.
I been through a break down. Now I still feel depress.
I wonder my child n usually happy marriage is enough to stay for my sanity...
I pray for you too. I hope you can solve your problem. You are a strong woman.

(59)
Martha,
November 29, 2012 8:52 AM

I can totally understand where this lady is coming from. My mother in law has caused many problems in my marriage. I have many of the same problems. My wife and mother skills were always
criticized. When confronted it's I never said that. She didn't truly accept my children from a previous marriage ie. Obvious in equality amongst bday presents. She made a serious statement against one of my family membera which I have a hard time deciding whether it's true or not. My husband has sided w her and can't understand why I have any doubts. I really encourage u to seek counseling b4 it gets too late and out of hand.

(58)
Anonymous,
November 24, 2012 12:08 PM

love her as she is your mother and not only his

well as the TORAH states she is also your mother and you should love her more than you love your own mother and then you will have both a loving husband and a loving mum

(57)
Aero,
November 19, 2012 12:44 PM

Parents in law

Hi there,
I'd like some advise please! I have been married for almost nine years and to make a long story short it hasn't been a healthy marriage!
We have two adorable children for this marriage and his parents are always intruding , putting their fie cents in everything we decide!
Make things worse they are quite rude, on My sons baptism my father wasn't offered a beer from my parents in law which in turn got up and left! I confronted my father I law telling me that my father has the problem and he is no longer welcome there! I feel like everyone are big babies crating unnecessary problems!
I am tired and now feel the need to keep away from my I laws as they don't want to consider reconciliation with my parents which I find it quite rude!
Please some advice

(56)
Jean,
November 17, 2012 5:55 AM

mother in law

I totally disagree. When you marry your spouse, you do not marry his family. I and a few of my friends do not get all intertwined with the daily lives of our husbands' folks. We allow the husbands to go and visit and to call. We as women do not make phone calls but tell our husbands to say hi to them. When they come to visit once a year, we put them up in a local hotel, as we do not have much space. It can be done with out all the the mingling. And I do not allow my in laws to keep my children overnight and they are not allowed to watch me give birth or breastfeed. I set up gentle and respectful boundaries to save myself from stress. i respect them at a distance.

(55)
Anonymous,
August 1, 2012 3:00 PM

Rabbi Haber's answer is correct in theory', however in practice it could only apply after years of working on ones self . For one to do as he advises before being on a high level of emuna would result in being resentful and would transgress "lo sisna achicha bilvovecha" (" you should not hate your brother in your heart ")

(54)
scott,
July 29, 2012 5:35 AM

No Compromise

My parents just finished a two week visit. It was great mainly becuase my parents show respect for me and my wife. They would never dream of giving us one word of parentling advice unbidden and when I ask them they speak to me so as not to create an environment where my wife may feel them critical. If she asks they respond carefully understanding that my primary loyalty in life is now to my wife and child and they endeavor not to cause that relationship any strain. They are a big help and a model for how I will endeavor to teat my children and their spuses shoud I be so blessed.
Your home is your castle. It is inappropriate for anyone to enter your home without your permission. If shes your husbands guest she can't come over unitl he is there. She has no right to drop in an visit your children. They are children and receive no visitor without you permission. Get a deadbold on the inside as another commentor recommended and tell her to go away. You should not have to negotiate the managment of your house or the rearing of your children with any third party. Period. Barring neglect or hazard anyone making unsolicited comments critical of your child rearing style should be removed from your home. Asked to leave. Children need to have respect for their parents and anyone underminig that respect is endangering them.
There's no need for counseling here. It's very clear to me that you need to force your husband to choose marriage or a return to his childhood. Frankly he seems like someone who is used to being submissive to female authority. Excercise some and he will most likely fold.

Anonymous,
December 14, 2012 12:48 PM

Salute to you .. A true Man!

I thought Man like you don't exist... Now I hear there are
Two of you .your dad n u.and there will be more.. Your
Children.
Bless you !! Have a great Happy life fill with loads of love.
Your wife is truly bless..

(53)
Ari Friedman,
July 22, 2012 6:39 PM

Both good answers

I would start with changing the locks on the door.

(52)
psydoc,
July 22, 2012 3:31 PM

Play the GAME

Come on girl!
What are you thinking ?
Why would you divorce your husband - that would be the most foolish thing to think of doing.
You have invested a major part of yourself into this marriage with three children on board.
Two can play the game - or did you never play any games in your childhood?
Give your MIL a dose of her own medicine - I have taught plenty of young women in the course of a counseling career spanning 45 years - get with it.
Find out what makes her jump through the hoops, make her jump!
Do not react to all her plays, she is having fun with you.
Go ahead have the fun of your life, and watch while the old lady runs every time you approach her with the honeyed word and the saccharine smile !
Go girl!

(51)
Bobby5000,
July 21, 2012 12:17 PM

A New Helper

Get lemons, make lemonade? Before a war, consider this. The mother-in-law is bored and is having difficulty finding a purpose.
During a family together my mother came into the kitchen where my mother-in-law was doing dishes and she said, you can leave, this is my kitchen and I'm taking care of everything. Somewhat offended, mom came to me and I said you want to make dinner and do all the dishes next time, you can say it's your kitchen. Mom smiled.
Consider making MIL a helper. See if she can get meals together and help get her grandchildren off to school. Imagine taking a Wednesday afternoon for Yoga or a book club. Helping taking care of three children can be hard, and one is less likely to critque confronting the challenges herself.

(50)
Anonymous,
July 21, 2012 8:49 AM

Mother in-law from hell

Thank you for this article , I have been in a very similar situation for 20years and the advice helped. I feel for this lady because it is extremely difficult to be happy when healthy boundaries are not respected (including the key to the front door!) What is the best and healthy way to support my husband who is beginning to establish healthy boundaries with his mother ?

(49)
Pauline,
July 21, 2012 2:25 AM

Suggestions:

1. Change the locks & guard the new keys. 2. Decide how often each week you prefer to get together with your mother-in-law. 3.Go to the park / mall / anywhere out of the house with the kids, (often for a while), so that you are not always home; that may make her start calling first. 4. Instead of her coming over in the evening, let her know her son will be going her that night, after he has had dinner & relaxed & the kids are in bed. Maybe send all 3 kids over to her a couple of entire days each week. And let her care for them alone, often, for a month or so. This may cure her of some of her comments regarding your so called failings. Thus giving her some insight, and a refresher course on how exhausting full time care for young children is. And you get a break. 5. Find out stuff she's interested in, or was as a girl, and see if you can find some inexpensive adult school classes that are fun for her, and can occupy some of her time & give her an opportunity to make some friends. She may just feel incredibly lonely as a widow. 6. Then have THE conversation with your mother-in-law. Begin by telling her about the classes. Then ask her about her relationship (now & or in the past) that she had with her mother-in-law. Ask about how often they'd get together, & why she didn't invite or choose to see her 5x a day. Say, but why didn't she love and care about her enough to make that much time to devote to her? Note, You may also ask her if she wants her son's marriage to be happy or strained. Does she want her grandchildren to come from a broken home? And let her know that, while you care about her, and want her to be very much involved in the family, her constantly being in the middle of everything causes much stress in the marriage. 7 Also, I wonder, if your husband doesn't mind her bothering you so much, is it because he wants her to be keeping an eye on you? Is there a trust or control issue on his part playing into this? 8. Good luck.

(48)
elisheva,
July 20, 2012 3:14 PM

no hope there

that lady's husband is unable to "get it"bec his mother castrated him since childhood w her type of mothering/smothering. I am against divorce, but here is a case where it is valid. There is emotional incest here, the husband feels more loyalty to his mother than to his wife. This is not a man, this is some subtype of golem. he should not be married and making the world hell for that unfortunate woman who married him.DIVORCE IS A VERY SWEET WORD IN THIS CASE. IT MEANS GETTING A LIFE AND RECOVERING HER DIGNITY.

(47)
SusanE,
July 20, 2012 11:20 AM

Not the Husbands Fight

Why put the husband in the middle of this fight? Clearly it is between the mother-in-law and wife. Quit whining and take care of what needs taken care of. Get her out of your house. If the wife doesn't have backbone to stand up to a woman who invades her home, moving away won't change anything.There is always someone else in line to take advantage of someone who allows it. Making her husband choose between wife and mother is selfish and immature. Everytime the MIL comes in the door, the wife has indirectly given her permission to be there, especiaally after it is ongoing for several years. Tomorrow, when she walks in uninvited, ask her to please leave, and to give you her key. If she does not give it up, install a deadbolt on the inside of each door. It's your house. If your husband doesn't support you in this tell him to visit with his mother at her house after work and you'll see him at dinner. Be firm with both of them.

(46)
Denise,
July 20, 2012 6:04 AM

Mother-in-law from WHERE?

All things, good and bad, are from HaShem. Perhaps a tough test such as the MIL who speaks ill of her DIL deserves some simple intervention from hubby... if he fails to take corrective action, then this is a husband issue, the true reality afterall. Still and again, a test from HaShem! I agree with Rabbi Haber that one can choose to rise above the foray. Introspection means to be on the look-in, and not on the look-out.

(45)
Anonymous,
July 19, 2012 4:52 PM

Change the locks!

I think the first thing I would do is change the locks. And with all due respect to Rabbi Haber, telling this mother to look into herself and see her insecurities just misses the point. I respect my Mother-in-law and she confides in me things no-one else knows about but I would never give her my front door key or allow her to dictate my children's upbringing or anything else.

(44)
7littlebeauties,
July 19, 2012 4:08 PM

I feel your pain

I have a similar situation, not with the MIL (can't give too many details for the sake of anonymity). As difficult as it is, and has been for me, if it isn't going to change, then I just have to accept it and change my attitude. OK I have to psych myself a lot. Every time there is a difficulty, I tell myself that Hashem is giving me my olam haba by giving me difficulties in this world so as to absolve me of my sins.
You can also change the way you look at your MIL: instead of seeing an overbearing Jewish mother, look at this pathetic, miserable woman who doesn't see you and your children for the beautiful souls that they are, but as subjects to rule over and boss around.
Believe me I know it's hard. I've been through it with the MIL and I'm going through it now with someone else. It would be nice if you could be vindicated. But if you are not, for whatever reason, then this is the best you can do.

(43)
Silvia,
July 19, 2012 3:30 AM

If you haven't done it yet, call the locksmith NOW

Have the locks changed IMMEDIATELY. And you can get the "master" key type of key which makes copying unlawful (added security for yourself).
Husband doesn't like the idea? Don't tell him, just give him his key after the fact. Honestly, if he needs his mummy that much, in your shoes I would kicked him down the street a long time ago. And if she complains, tell her to go jump in the lake.
Nobody deserves a mother in law like that.

(42)
Mary L.,
July 18, 2012 10:23 PM

Mom needs major limits

Change your locks. That is first. Next, sit with your Husband and set limits for her. A family needs privacy, not someone in and out making critical comments. Mother in law should try to lift her up and make her feel good not tell lies and harm her. This marriage is in a critical state at needs help fast. The husband better wake up and stand up to his overbearing mother fast or he'll be out the door too!

(41)
Michael Freeman,
July 18, 2012 9:10 PM

Beyond the pale

The machatonister's worst sin among many in this situation is loshen hara. If the husband does not understand the low character and unalloyed lack of respect and consideration for his wife and himself that his mother exhibits when committing this sin, he is treating his wife with contempt. Never underestimate the harm loshen hara does.

(40)
sonia,
July 18, 2012 5:27 PM

Can I give you an advice?

I wonder how can you believe that woman made the key without the permission of her son!
Try this for just one week, works like magic. ASK HER FOR HELP. Nothing too serious, which tomato is best for salad, or how to help a child order the room... and make her talk a lot about a jewish mother's favorite topic, her son. In a week she'll love you, and your husband will have less pressure "me or her" for it's obvious he will not "hurt his mom's feelings" by taking your sida. So make his mother take YOUR side.
Try it. Just one week. It works.

(39)
Anonymous,
July 17, 2012 5:32 PM

What the rabbi is saying...

I've had similar problems to what this woman is experiencing, not from the mother-in-law, but from my own Mom. I am not religious enough to follow the advice of the rabbi just because he is a rabbi. However, what he is saying makes sense. The only criticismsms that really hurt were the ones where I felt there may have been some truth to them. If my Mom said something like she hated some dress I was wearing, it would be annoying, but if I knew that I was perfectly happy with the dress, I could let it slide without emotionally affecting me. If however, she criticized somthing that I knew to be somewhat true (e.g. my kitchen isn't the cleanest), then it would really sting particularly because of the words that were chosen. So I realized that I need to fix those things in which my Mom had a point (no matter how offensively phrased), and then I could be a lot less emotional. Hope this helps.

(38)
clare,
July 17, 2012 5:12 PM

Put her to work..

Everytime your mother-in-law walks in without being invited, tell her how glad you are she's there because you need help with ...... cleaning the kitchen - put her to work, laundry - let her do it, etc. She may limit her visits of her own acord. Next change the locks and get the type that you cannot copy the key. You'll need a locksmith for that.

(37)
peter,
July 17, 2012 4:39 PM

visits, not bad

the mother's inlaw repeated visits are not bad in its sense of communal life. it is morally wrong for the mother inlaw to duplicate keys to the house door. she could be taken as a robber. in the same vein it is wrong for her telling lies against the daughter inlaw which expressly or impliedly mean she is as well telling lies against the son. who knows if the son is the only child or loves him most among others which makes her make repeated visits? the son should talk to the mother. if you must change the keys to the house, let your husband be aware. get his consent. if no is the answer, try and follow it up in prayer to God, who is the solution to every problem.

(36)
Ben,
July 17, 2012 2:15 PM

In Defense of the Rabbi

I beleive what the rabbi may have meant is that one cannot change others, the only way to change others is to change oneself and your attitude towards them.

(35)
IrisB,
July 17, 2012 2:28 AM

Rabbi, surely you jest

Rabbi - you wrote: "Think to yourself: Why does it bother you so much what your mother-in-law thinks of you? " Her mother in law tells lies about her. Of course she is going to care what is being said about her. The lies become more believable when they are told by someone who SHOULD have the subject's interest at heart. A lie told repeatedly becomes believed. Anti-semetic propaganda is rift with lies and has become believed because it has been told over and over again.
This woman's mother in law is a cancer and should be surgically eliminated from her life. She should first change the locks on the door, tell her mother in law to please call and ask if it is alright to come over - and then tell her no when it is not convenient. Her husband has no backbone. If he does not support her, he should give him an ultimatum - mom or me.

Mordechai Shuali,
July 17, 2012 12:04 PM

Rabbi, surely you are right

Yes the mother is off the charts. Yes she is out of bounds, off sides, etc. Nonetheless, this is the wife's test tp facilitate her growth. Rabbis are here to help us be in touch with our souls and our mission; to keeps on the road to our perfection.

(34)
Anonymous,
July 17, 2012 2:04 AM

What in the world?

This mother in law is radical, yet I have seen adult children act as bad or worse. My own daughter lived next door for some years after she was married, and I couldn't do a thing right by her.
I gave my daughter a key in the event she had a real need, only to discover that nice bottle of wine missing and other food stuffs I had plans to use. This would have been so big a problem, be we lived 45 miles from the nearest grocery shopping. If I said anything: "I wasn't there for her" HUH?
She would tell me how I should wear my hair, what was wrong with my make-up and make snide remarks about how I used an item in my decor. Funny thing is that many people commented on the lovely atmosphere of peacefulness in our home.
When she had her children, I would drop everything for our grandchildren, they never wanted to leave the playfulness and laughter in our home, for this I am accused of playing my grandchildren against their mother (NOT SO)! When I wanted to see the grands, I was told to "Get a life", when I got a role in an independent film; I was told "HOW NICE you can do this at this time when I need you!" I wish someone would write an article about the children and their mates from hell. I can honestly say, I have never seen that.
My daughter and daughter in law acted like THEY were the intrusive mothers!
Once when my DIL was staying at our home, she complained that she could hear me using the mop in my kitchen at 10:30 AM. OY?
My point? Mother IN Laws get ALL the bad raps!

(33)
Bobby5000,
July 17, 2012 1:42 AM

problems faced by husband

Don't underestimate the challenges the husband faces, hearing weekly.
"You won't believe how she treats me. I am as nice to here as possible, but she treats me like garbage. My friends can't believe how he lets his (wife/mother) treats his (wife/mother). He is scared to death of her. The problem is I am too nice, and let her intimidate me and her (son/husband).
That said, the wife should change the locks, but try to work things out from there.

(32)
Anonymous,
July 17, 2012 12:25 AM

Put her to work

If she is there so often, give her specific chores to do. Get out of the house and get some personal time -- go to an exercise class; go to a women's shiur; or go hang out at her house by yourself. If she is going to be at your place anyway, she might as well make herself useful and you should get some quiet time. Suggest to your husband that, since she is a ubiquitous presence in the house, the two of you should take advantage of the opportunity to go out to dinner or take in shuirim together. The latter is a good way to have an uplifting shared experience.

(31)
A FRIEND,
July 16, 2012 9:48 PM

Been there, done that, and more!

As someone who has suffered from an intruding mother-in-law, and a husband who had a hard time "stuck in the middle" and having been to Rabbanim and therapy as a result, I have to say SHALOM BAYIS IS EVERYTHING, it comes before kibbud em, it is your home, your chinnuch/parenting, your thoughts your life!! Your husband needs to be on board with you, understanding the situation from your perspective, it sounds like you will need outside help from a rav or therapist who has delt well with similar situations. Rabbi Haber's advice is a recipe for a bad marriage and lots of resentment, which I'm sure you have, please discard his advice, I have never heard such rubbish, you don't marry a family, you marry a person and become a family. very soon we will be visiting my m-i-l who's made clear wishes for her son to inform me that she should have all the freedom to do what she wants with our kids whilst we visit and made clear this is kibud eim..She has not changed (and prob never will) but WE have changed, both myself and my husband and our marriage. Thank G-d my husband now understands it's not her place to say that or much else, and he also agrees with Dr Tobin's approach and says the sitiation needs to be dealt with carefully and delicately, and did not agree with Rabbi Haber's approach. Hatzlacha with your nisayon, and you and your husband have an amazing opportunity here for growth to create a healthy marriage and environment for your children. A happy mother is able to give to her children properly, not one who is constantly being criticized and judged.

(30)
Anonymous,
July 16, 2012 8:41 PM

response to mother in law from hell

I read 2 books about this situation that really helped one is Grandparenting with Love and Logic and although it is geared toward them it addresses very detailed problems that bring to light very interesting aspects of a mother in law mentality and what should me done about it. For instance there is something called an alliance that is formed with the grandchildren and the mother is made to feel inadequate and incapable of caring for the children so the children become the grandmother's children. It address the topics of making negative comments about the parent n how this really just damages the child and what tactics she will use for her plot to come about. It also talks about Grandma taking the steering wheel even though she should be in the passanger seat. I highly recommend this book for every person. The other book says with alifetime of experience on raising a family a mnlaw can't sit back n watch this NYMP trying to raise her family n making mistakes, she just has to jump in and have her way, regardless. Yes, I am married to my husband and living next door to my mother in law. I have 6 children and she makes it a point to have my children do the exact opposite of what my husband and i have agreed to. She says nasty things because she feels she can do almost everything better than i can and she makes it a point to do things to get him to feel sorry for her, or be sick or helpless when he or i stand up to her. It is very damaging to the children and to the Marriage, as well as to the Mother inL and father inL marriage because he may not agree with her. It took my husband 5 LONG years to figure her out and it took a serious toll on our marriage. I remember the day he admitted I never knew my mother was like this. Too sad and bad for her bc i did everything in my power to love her and be a great friend to her. 80perc of our marital problems are resolved to her getting out. I feel free. Do not discount Rabbi words either bc there is trueth in too.

(29)
miriam,
July 16, 2012 7:13 PM

Move to a different city

(preferably country). If husband won't go, go for help! I wouldn't call your situation a marriage: it's more like you're living together unmarried with kids - in his mother's house.

(28)
anonymous,
July 16, 2012 5:17 PM

MOVE OUT

Don't bother changing the locks! FIND A DIFFERENT PLACE TO LIVE WITH YOUR FAMILY!

(27)
Marcia,
July 16, 2012 3:11 PM

Haber way out of line

I was very surprised to read rabbi Haber's remarks. Anyone who is that intrusive to a marriage (or any relationship) must be stopped. This goes way beyond the boundaries of Kibbud Av. In fact, in Rabbi Diamant's book on marriage , he clearly states that ones obligation is always to the marriage before the parent

(26)
Aliza,
July 16, 2012 10:42 AM

responses

okay, Dr. Michael Tobin's response seems sensible and halachically accurate. the only thing he forgot to say is CHANGE THE LOCK ON YOUR HOUSE! I do not get Rabbi Yaacov Haber's response, it does not seem either psychologically and or hallachically sound. the reason why Judaism allows for divorce is that not all marriages work. when on partner cares more about his or her parents more than the spouse, then there is no marriage. appeasement does not work, especially in situations like this. find a different Rabbi if you want rabbinic approval, one who understands that this is not a marriage between a husband and wife, it is between a son and his mother. b'hatlacha in resolving your situation, HaSh-m should bless you with the strength to deal with everything with wisdom, and calm and with the correct guidence.

(25)
Reza,
July 16, 2012 6:56 AM

how to get rid of her

Whether you like it or not,she lives down there.You'd better roll up your sleeves to find a good spouse for her,that would help.
PS:On 7th line 's' is left out for feel

(24)
TMay,
July 16, 2012 6:21 AM

My take

I think it is the combination that is upsetting the wife. The mother is not only in her space but neg. about her and backbiting. Backbiting hurts. Imagine if the mother was in the picture but being supportive, cleaning, babysitting.If she lives so close by, one could send the kids to her house for certain hours. Locks can be changed. Chains can be put on the door, secured on the inside.How one responds to hearing what is said about one is also real. One wants to respond but not to be revealing and not to exhibit negativity; one needs a phrase that makes the speaker think. Abe Lincoln had some interesting responses.
Men often marry someone like their mother so there could be some self-examination. That is often why the man can get along with both women while the women hate it. I am reading a book called "Understanding Other People" by Beverly Flaxington. Another favorite of mine is "Dealing with Difficult People" by Drs Brinkman and Kirschner. I like books like that. Both are thin books.
There can also be a recognition that the philosophy that the world would be at peace if women were in charge to be a fallacy considering how hard women find it just to have peace within their own family, and give credit to men for being the easy going people they are in comparison.
It is difficult to be a mother-in-law in our society. In China they came up with the idea that the older woman could be as impossible as she liked and the daughter-in-law knew that when she got to be that age, she would have that same freedom. In Ireland, men put off marriage until their mother died. In our society the mother puts a lot of energy and devotion into her son, and then he marries and all of a sudden the mother has to keep her mouth shut and be seen but not heard. The wife could concentrate on the mother having a relationship with the children which might give the wife some free time. When couples are on their own, they miss having family around to help with baby sitting and sick days.

Anonymous,
July 16, 2012 7:31 PM

The Jewish View

And the Jewish view is that a man leaves his mother and his father and cleaves to his wife as one flesh, "ishto k'gufo".

(23)
tshirtdr1,
July 16, 2012 4:07 AM

One more suggestion

Your mother-in-law is a permanent part of your family. She is important to your husband, children, and to you. I think you should be honest with her. Tell her that you all love her very much and she is welcome in your home, but you need time alone to grow your relationship with your husband. Invite her over 2-3 days per week. Let her know exactly which days and times she is invited and make it a regular occurrence. Treat her as a guest at those time and serve dinner. Include her. Try to find other things for her to do on the other days. She may be so happy to be wanted and included at certain times that she begins to enjoy the new arrangement.

(22)
Sandy,
July 16, 2012 3:48 AM

Mother in law

Change the locks. Have an intervention. Find her some community projects to get involved with. Send her a letter explaining how you feel about her intrusions.

(21)
Lisa,
July 16, 2012 2:52 AM

MOVE!!!

Yes, put your house for sale & get out of town....or at least to the other side of town.....& give no forwarding address!!

(20)
Anonymous,
July 15, 2012 7:43 PM

do not invite her over

The last thing to do is to invite her and include her in family activities. The ML needs to learn boundaries and not get mixed messages. Her son needs to grow up and speak to his mom and yes has to choose his wife over his mother. My kids grew up with a mom who was a shmatta and put my ML in front of my needs. They saw my pain and it affects their marriages now. Children do not learn kibud parents and grandparents by seeing a ML hurt a daughter in law. My
marriage improved and was saved by an ultimatum close to 20 years after the trouble started. My problem was not setting boundaries for my ML ( out of kibud, she sat in my seat across from my husband) Do not include her, do not invite her until she is clear what her role is in your family and it is not to denigrate a daughter in law or raise her grandchildren. I have lived through this. She turned my kids against me because I let her-kibud aim-let he enjoy her aineklech, I thought. . I am a mother in law now, and I do not do what was done to me.I give my married kids lots of privacy and they still prefer their grandmother over me. This would not be an issue if the husband was not a mama's boy. He will need to change. Plenty of husbands do choose their wives over their mothers on a daily basis. He has to learn how and if he does not, then you must move on. Women with children do remarry.

(19)
Anonymous,
July 15, 2012 5:58 PM

no blaming the victim - 2

Find special roles in your household for your MIL. Find things to compliment her on. Perhaps she would like to teach the children card games, listen while the kids read to her, tend your houseplants, whatever. Use your imagination and powers of observation.
Find a mentor, someone you can vent to when things get tough, someone who loves you and who values Kibud Horim (respecting parents). A friend, a rabbi or rebbetzin, the right therapist, etc. Praying is helpful too – Hashem is always available! When you’re unsure how to handle the latest invasion, you can try imagining “what would a Tzaddika (a truly righteous woman) do?” A Tzaddika behaves with compassion and confidence and is not driven by her own ego and defensiveness.
Invite your MIL to go somewhere to spend pleasant time together, just the two of you. A restaurant, miniature golf, art museum, whatever works.
When you absolutely must have some privacy, explain it as *your* “failing”. “I need to speak to the girls, and I’ll do better without any distractions of other adults around. Would you mind coming back in a couple of hours?”

(18)
Ilana,
July 15, 2012 5:57 PM

No blaming the victim -1

Avoid a power struggle with your MIL. You can’t win the war, even if you win battles. The rabbi gave advice that’s incredibly hard to follow – but could be worthwhile. If you like the following ideas for putting the advice into practice, you may want to slowly adopt one every week or two. Keep in mind that you will be teaching your children how to treat parents and in-laws. Also, you have an opportunity to foster a close relationship between your kids and their grandmother. Your MIL may be lonely and probably has control issues. Again, deflecting may be a more successful approach than a head-on conflict.
Greet your MIL with a smile, hug and kiss whenever she comes over. Repeat when she leaves. Teach your children to do the same. Every time.
Ask her about her life. Incidentally, this can be an effective way of heading off intrusive questions about *your* life.
Ask her for advice and input. Help her feel included and important. You can ignore the advice, even if you solicit it. You do not need to explain or justify your decisions. If you choose to, you can just say something decisive and vague like, “oh, I just followed my instincts.”
When your MIL offers unsolicited input, you can try a few approaches to deflect her advice: “Oh you’re concerned about … ?” gives her a chance to say what she wants without promising to change your mind. Or “Thanks for the input. I’ll give it some thought.” Or “oh, that’s what you did when you were raising children?” Just don’t argue your position. You don’t need to; you’re the mom. Remember, her advice and criticism are not really about you; they’re about her.
Invite your MIL over frequently. Who knows, maybe she’ll get the idea that it’s better to come over that way, rather than unannounced.

(17)
Anonymous,
July 15, 2012 5:12 PM

Why didn't you tell her to have the locks changed?

Why didn't you tell her to have the locks changed? That would be the first thing. The only explanation to tell the M-I-L is that the couple should have full control of whom and when there are people in the house.

Claire,
July 16, 2012 2:30 AM

Thanks, I wondered the same thing.

Five times a day for eight years? Change the locks and send momma's boy home to mommy already.

(16)
Wow,
July 15, 2012 4:41 PM

Thank you rabbi Haber I wish all of us would be able to look at matters In such a straight manner

(15)
Channie,
July 15, 2012 4:35 PM

mother-in-law terminator

I am a married woman with a child. I have a mother-in-law, who is also without a family of her own (her husband left her) and who would constantly be in our business, should I bend a little bit on this issue. I am more mature than most newlyweds, as I married in my 30's - I am an adult woman with a career and some life experience. I know that my mother-in-law is somewhat intimidated by my status, which helps greatly my marriage boundaries. Her behaviour to my sister-in-law is different and is pretty mortifying.
I would like to offer a notice that very often a man and a woman can easier find common ground (in a case of son in-law and his mother-in-law) that two women. it is often hard for a man to imagine how tricky it can be for a woman to relate to her mother-in-law. Unfortunately, these women have destroyed many a family with a silent complacency of their sons. I think that sons too need to own up to their faults of letting their mothers meddle in their lives.
I believe that this woman has a reason to save her marriage and wants to. She an her husband need to go into counseling and teach the mother-in-law some boundaries, starting with changing the locks on their house.

(14)
Anonymous,
July 15, 2012 4:29 PM

Thank you Rabbi Haber

Thank you rabbi haber for seeing reality instead of throwaway psychological lines. someone is finally getting to the root of the matter!!! thank you

(13)
Charles Feinstein,
July 15, 2012 4:07 PM

Change the locks

First thing, change all of the door locks and do NOT give her a key. If your husband does give her one, change them again and when he gets tired of locksmith bills-he may get the message. This is in addition to all of the other good advice listed here.

(12)
ruth housman,
July 15, 2012 3:52 PM

intrusive people

It seems the mother-in-law is making a life, by inserting herself into the lives of her family, and is doing this in unconscionable ways, becoming in so doing, the whale swallowing up everyone in the process. Don't let her do this. She needs boundaries. We all need boundaries It is clear she has a real problem recognizing family intimacy and place "setting". When someone allows another to be invasive in this way, to practise piracy, without being stopped, the message is wrong. We talk about tough love for our children, well in this case, a Mother needs boundaries and she can be told she is loved but that her JOB is not appreciated when she feels the need to take over, in this way. It's wrong to make keys to another's home, unbidden, and to walk in without respect for privacy and personal space. Does she need a real job? Is she empty inside, and filling her life with meaning by defining for herself something not wanted, not needed, which she has created? I bet she needs structure and a place to put herself during the day. And it could be rewarding. I would say she needs to "find herself".
There are so many ways to be useful these days, and programs for people in retirement. She's running on empty and fulfilling herself in the wrong ways.

(11)
yehudis,
July 15, 2012 3:35 PM

She needs help/husband need to man-up/MIL nees to but out

and maybe everyone could benefit from Rebbitzen Faige Twerski's article July 15, 2012 "Difficult Mother in Laws". She states a few times: "you simply have to adapt the attitude that it is not about you". Great advice from a great (and very experienced) woman.

lisa,
July 16, 2012 2:46 AM

Then who is it about???

I think only those that are in her shoes can really give this woman advice!! MIL's can be toxic!!

(10)
Anonymous,
July 15, 2012 2:22 PM

I'm sorry Rabbi, but I VEHEMENTLY disagree with your approach.

Rabbi Haber: With all due respect, please tell me this is not the advice you would really give. It seems to me that your advice totally disregards the very sanctity of marriage that the Torah holds so dear. Women are not supposed to be cowering in a corner submitting to her husband's (or mother-in-law's) every whim. We are supposed to be an "aizer k'negdo". Literally translated, that means "a helper opposite him" which we learn means that we are supposed to help our husbands, support them, and build them up, but also let them know when we think they are making a mistake or doing something wrong. The husband in this case, by putting his mother's whims before his wife's needs, is definitely making a big mistake. There are definitely times in a marriage where one party or the other (in this case the husband) needs a swift, verbal, kick in the pants, so to speak. The wife should put it plainly to her husband how much pain she's in, and what direction she sees their marriage going in should this pain continue. If that doesn't wake him up on it's own, yes, therapy should be started, as the doctor suggested. Putting the blame on the wife for this situation is both irresponsible and mean.
To the woman in this situation, change your locks. Make it one of those that you need to call a specific locksmith to copy, and tell the locksmith that he can't copy it without checking with you first. Make 3 keys: One for you, one for your husband, and one for a trusted neighbor in case of emergency.

Frieda,
July 16, 2012 6:38 PM

Saving a marriage

I agree with the Rabbai. He is trying to prevent a divorce. The life of 3 children is at risk.So compromise here is not a bad thing to do.

(9)
Betty,
July 15, 2012 2:20 PM

Rabbi Haber, why do you blame the victim ? No, she did not marry the family, she married her husband and yes family does come as an added "bonus" but we don't have to accept the bonus if its a burden. Her otherwise happy marriage tells me that her husband is not a bad guy at heart but just too tied to his mothers's apron strings and unfortunately puts his mother ahead of his wife. Absolute NO NO!! in a marriage. I honestly feel she should give her husband an ultimatum and one way or the other she will be much happier.

Anonymous,
July 15, 2012 3:01 PM

What makes you so sure that the wife is the only victim?

Some real life experience will show that it is quite possible that the husband and his mother are also being abused.

(8)
Anonymous,
July 15, 2012 2:11 PM

What happens when the shoe is on the other foot?

Dr Tobias. I wonder if all these well meaning comments (critiques) against the husband's mother would be the same if it was the wife's mother that was intruding, which usually is more common.
Rabbi Haber has an excellent prescription for shalom bayis without compromising the sanctity of Kibud av V'aim.

betty,
July 15, 2012 4:51 PM

Yes, it would be the same. No mother or any member of the family should come between hiusband and wife.Both spouses should respect each other's feelings before anyone else's. Why get married if a man or a woman wants to remain "married" to mommy ??!!

(7)
Anonymous,
July 15, 2012 2:11 PM

Step one:

I am curious as to why neither of these "professionals" began with "change the lock". That is just common sense. Also, consider the example that is being set for the children: "when I get married it will be ok for my mother/mother-in-law to run my marriage." A recipe for disaster for the future generation.

(6)
Herb,
July 15, 2012 1:52 PM

Not to be believed! Get key to Mother in law's house and be there every day before she wakes up and at odd hours day and night. When she asks what you are doing here you can tell her you are doing just what she does in your home. Let's make a deal! I'll call before I come here and you call before you come to my house. If your husband doesn't think this is brilliant, start packing!

(5)
bubbelove8,
July 15, 2012 1:33 PM

Thank you Dr. Tobin

Having been in that position I thank Dr. Tobin for his advice. Except for the fact that my mother-in-law from hell did not have a key to my house, I was in the same situation. It is as if I wrote the above problem myself. The problem was solved unfortunately by her death. She always interferred with our marriage and our 4 children. I lost my husband 29 years ago and still to this day have awful feelings of hate towards my mother-in-law. We did go for therapy which helped tremendously, and I urge the distressed wife to go for help. Luckily my husband realized what poison his mother was before she died. Otherwise the guilt he would feel would, in fact, destroy our marriage. We were married 9 years when she died and the rest of our years together was as it should be between husband and wife. I'm sorry, Rabbi Haber I feel that you are off base about this problem. You ask questions that make me (at 70 years old) feel that you are not really in touch with these problems.

Anonymous,
July 28, 2012 7:28 AM

I agree. In this situation the best way to set boundaries is to go to therapy or have a discussion with the husband so that you can develop a sense of unity as a couple. I realise this now myself.
However this can take a long time and husbands who have an unhealthy bond with their moms may not be open to any discussion. I read the Rabbi's advice a few times and I now think that in a way you do need to raise above yourself (we all do) to solve such a difficult situation. But it won't be possible without the husband's willingness and understanding. Don't wait too long though, you literally will start to lose your teeth before you are 40 because of the extreme stress a person goes through in such an environment. Both Dr Tobin and Rabbi Haber have a point. I wish the husband and wife well.

(4)
anon,
July 15, 2012 1:33 PM

To Rabbi Haber, with all due respect

Why does "shalom bayit" always end up meaning that the wife has to suffer? This is such an extreme situation of an umbilical cord that has never been cut. It's outrageous that you should suggest that the wife just has to put up with any behavior from any of her husband's family, because she "married" the mother as well. So what's the other option? In addition to Dr. Tobin's advice, I suggest that they move to at least an hour's drive away. Even with all the hassle it will be worthwhile. They can visit granny with the kids once a week. In any case the MIL is going to hate her but at least she can have some peace and quiet from her, and see her on her own terms, and not be invaded every two minutes. The issue here really is the husband. Is he willing to understand what his responsibilities are in life, aka, making his wife number one in his life. Strongly suggest books on shalom bayit by Rav Arush. Good luck to this woman who deserves more than a medal.

(3)
anonymous,
July 15, 2012 1:23 PM

I understand completely

She is usually happy because her husband is not intrinsically a bad husband and they probably would have a good marriage, even great if his mother, the thorn, would not poke at him and therefore at them. I lived what she is living and after 18 years, my husband finally chose me. My mother in law still has not forgiven me or seen her role in this. The scars of my early years with a man who chose his mom over me ( moved to a city and state that his mom wanted to live in and she moved too- I did not want to move) have not fully healed. They may not. I try to concentrate on the last 7 years
of our 25 year old marriage. I tell my husband that my first husband was a jerk and I am so glad that he is now my 2nd husband. My advice: therapy, ultimatum and divorce if nothing else works. I regret not giving him the ultimatum earlier and suffering as I did. You are not in a marriage when your mother in law is the priority.

Bubbelove8,
July 15, 2012 1:47 PM

Right on Target, Anonymous!

You are right on target. My marriage was great when the horrible mother-in-law left the scene. To this day my grown and married children still remember what a horrible person she was. My husband did see her ways, thank G-d, before she died. Otherwise his mourning her would be impossible. I had wonderful years (13) with him before he unexpectedly died. The husbands - and wives - have to know that they come first with each other, and not forgetting to respect the parent along with putting their spouses and children in first place. Get to the therapist. Glad you have solved your problem,
anonymous. Yasher koach to you.

(2)
Sharon,
July 15, 2012 1:13 PM

for starters

First change the lock. Possibly she will get the hint. And if not you could patiently explain the motivation for it. You could also move a distance which will change the dynamic, and while this is a drastic change, it's not as drastic as divorce. For both of these, you need to get your husband to understand that the current situation is not sustainable.

(1)
Alan S.,
July 15, 2012 12:20 PM

Oy vey, Rabbi Haber.

I know you meant well Rabbi Haber, but in my opinion, in so many words, your answer essentially 'blamed the victim'. Sure, your suggestions have merit. For a moment though, put aside that the wife may not be perfect. Where is your concern for the shalom bayit that the husband and mother in law clearly have no regard for? Okay, now let's reintroduce the imperfect wife, as this is where you directed your answer. No marriage is ideal, but even with the wife's imperfections, her husband and mother in law are slowly poisoning her marriage, and are contributing to her disregard for her husband, and her contempt for her mother in law. Where in your answer do you direct your comments to the source of the problems, that is, the husband's clear failings to protect his marriage, and the mother in laws clear attempts to intrude? The mother in law forgot about the sanctity of her son's marriage, and you seem to have misplaced this to a possible failing by the wife. Rabbi, please excuse the metaphor, but your answer truly "blew smoke up the woman's backside". Read the doctor's answer. He 'nailed it".

ר,
July 15, 2012 2:08 PM

Rabbi advised the 1 actively seeking change

I think Rabbi Haber was the most realistic: is the wife gonna be happier divorced, alone with 3 kids? Is she even going to get the kids? What about visitation rights etc? So when she seems to be the only one healthy enough to try to change this triangle, what are her best options? It's a fact of life that we can't change another person unless he himself wants to changes himself. So each of us is best advised to work on ourself, and from our revitalized strengths, change the balance and energies in the relationship. Then maybe he'll decide to do some changes also....

jason,
July 15, 2012 2:48 PM

he's not blaming the victim

Some readers are way too sensitive. The rabbi isn't 'blaming the victim' - of course the mother in law is at fault here. But now what? You can disagree with his approach, but he's trying to give practical advice and show the wife how her choices can affect the situation. i don't see blame being cast on her in the slightest

Alan S.,
July 15, 2012 3:35 PM

I don't agree. The husband is not going to change, regardless of what the wife does. The husband has clearly "spoken" by his choice of not cutting the cord. Furthermore, the husband clearly knows that his mother is causing stress in his marriage -- most of their fights are over the mother. The husband will not confront his mother. Yes, the wife should go for counselling, and perhaps she will learn to handle her clearly dysfunctional marriage better. Or, sadly, she will conclude that divorce is the better option. In fact, while the wife may not be happier divorced, she may be happier divorced. But for sure, the mother in law will be happy with a divorce. I understand that Rabbi Haber is asking her to look inwardly to make changes to her approach if this will help her marriage. This is surely good advice. But I believe that there is better advice.

Anonymous,
July 15, 2012 3:47 PM

No, the Rabbi did not come right out and 'blame the victim'. That is why I put the phrase in quotes. But, when you distill the advice he gave, he might as well be 'blaming" her for the husband's acquiesence to his mother's interference, as well as his mother's actual interference itself. Obviously it is the wife asking for the advice, so, while some situations require an introspective appoach, this particular situation does not. Sure, some introspection is always a good thing. But, what change in the wife's behavor will make this situation better? Continuing to permit the mother in law to be the third cog in a two cog wheel? Or continuing to permit the husband to not protect her feelings?

I'm told that it's a mitzvah to become intoxicated on Purim. This puzzles me, because to my understanding, it is not considered a good thing to become intoxicated, period.

One of the characteristics of the at-risk youth is their use of drugs, including alcohol. In my experience, getting drunk doesn't reveal secrets. It makes people act stupid and irresponsible, doing things they would never do if they were sober. Also, I know a lot about the horrible health effects of abusing alcohol, because I work at a research center that focuses on addiction and substance abuse.

Also, I am an alcoholic, which means that if I drink, very bad things happen. I have not had a drink in 22 years, and I have no intention of starting now. Surely there must be instances where a person is excused from the obligation to drink. I don't see how Judaism could ever promote the idea of getting drunk. It just doesn't seem right.

The Aish Rabbi Replies:

Putting aside for a moment all the spiritual and philosophical reasons for getting drunk on Purim, this remains an issue of common sense. Of course, teenagers should be warned of the dangers of acute alcohol ingestion. Of course, nobody should drink and drive. Of course, nobody should become so drunk to the point of negligence in performing mitzvot. And of course, a recovering alcoholic should not partake of alcohol on Purim.

Indeed, the Code of Jewish Law explicitly says that if one suspects the drinking may affect him negatively, then he should NOT drink.

Getting drunk on Purim is actually one of the most difficult mitzvot to do correctly. A person should only drink if it will lead to positive spiritual results - e.g. under the loosening affect of the alcohol, greater awareness will surface of the love for God and Torah found deep in the heart. (Perhaps if we were on a higher spiritual level, we wouldn't need to get drunk!)

Yet the Talmud still speaks of an obligation on Purim of "not knowing the difference between Blessed is Mordechai and Cursed is Haman." How then should a person who doesn't drink get the point of “not knowing”? Simple - just go to sleep! (Rama - OC 695:2)

All this applies to individuals. But the question remains - does drinking on Purim adversely affect the collective social health of the Jewish community?

The aversion to alcoholism is engrained into Jewish consciousness from a number of Biblical and Talmudic sources. There are the rebuking words of prophets - Isaiah 28:1, Hosea 3:1 with Rashi, and Amos 6:6, and the Zohar says that "The wicked stray after wine" (Midrash Ne'alam Parshat Vayera).

It is well known that the rate of alcoholism among Jews has historically been very low. Numerous medical, psychological and sociological studies have confirmed this. The connection between Judaism and sobriety is so evident, that the following conversation is reported by Lawrence Kelemen in "Permission to Receive":

When Dr. Mark Keller, editor of the Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol, commented that "practically all Jews do drink, and yet all the world knows that Jews hardly ever become alcoholics," his colleague, Dr. Howard Haggard, director of Yale's Laboratory of Applied Physiology, jokingly proposed converting alcoholics to the Jewish religion in order to immerse them in a culture with healthy attitudes toward drinking!

Perhaps we could suggest that it is precisely because of the use of alcohol in traditional ceremonies (Kiddush, Bris, Purim, etc.), that Jews experience such low rates of alcoholism. This ceremonial usage may actually act like an inoculation - i.e. injecting a safe amount that keeps the disease away.

Of course, as we said earlier, all this needs to be monitored with good common sense. Yet in my personal experience - having been in the company of Torah scholars who were totally drunk on Purim - they acted with extreme gentleness and joy. Amid the Jewish songs and beautiful words of Torah, every year the event is, for me, very special.

Adar 12 marks the dedication of Herod's renovations on the second Holy Temple in Jerusalem in 11 BCE. Herod was king of Judea in the first century BCE who constructed grand projects like the fortresses at Masada and Herodium, the city of Caesarea, and fortifications around the old city of Jerusalem. The most ambitious of Herod's projects was the re-building of the Temple, which was in disrepair after standing over 300 years. Herod's renovations included a huge man-made platform that remains today the largest man-made platform in the world. It took 10,000 men 10 years just to build the retaining walls around the Temple Mount; the Western Wall that we know today is part of that retaining wall. The Temple itself was a phenomenal site, covered in gold and marble. As the Talmud says, "He who has not seen Herod's building, has never in his life seen a truly grand building."

Some people gauge the value of themselves by what they own. But in reality, the entire concept of ownership of possessions is based on an illusion. When you obtain a material object, it does not become part of you. Ownership is merely your right to use specific objects whenever you wish.

How unfortunate is the person who has an ambition to cleave to something impossible to cleave to! Such a person will not obtain what he desires and will experience suffering.

Fortunate is the person whose ambition it is to acquire personal growth that is independent of external factors. Such a person will lead a happy and rewarding life.

With exercising patience you could have saved yourself 400 zuzim (Berachos 20a).

This Talmudic proverb arose from a case where someone was fined 400 zuzim because he acted in undue haste and insulted some one.

I was once pulling into a parking lot. Since I was a bit late for an important appointment, I was terribly annoyed that the lead car in the procession was creeping at a snail's pace. The driver immediately in front of me was showing his impatience by sounding his horn. In my aggravation, I wanted to join him, but I saw no real purpose in adding to the cacophony.

When the lead driver finally pulled into a parking space, I saw a wheelchair symbol on his rear license plate. He was handicapped and was obviously in need of the nearest parking space. I felt bad that I had harbored such hostile feelings about him, but was gratified that I had not sounded my horn, because then I would really have felt guilty for my lack of consideration.

This incident has helped me to delay my reactions to other frustrating situations until I have more time to evaluate all the circumstances. My motives do not stem from lofty principles, but from my desire to avoid having to feel guilt and remorse for having been foolish or inconsiderate.

Today I shall...

try to withhold impulsive reaction, bearing in mind that a hasty act performed without full knowledge of all the circumstances may cause me much distress.

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