valve said steam would eliminate the need for separate DRM because it was unbreakable. It would free up gamers to never need a CD/dvd again as they could reinstall w/o issues whenever they wanted. You couldn't pirate/cheat the system because you could only be on one computer at a time, so you couldn't buy one copy of a game, install it on 30 people's computer & then all play at once.

Stalker:CS reviles what steam actually is: a way to make $$, nothing more. People who say otherwise are told they're wrong, they're just haters, they're pirates, etc.

You could blame the Stalker dev's but are they really to blame? DVD copy has DRM but that's it. The disc is needed in the drive which means you need a legit disc to get it to work. Yes, I'm sure you can get a patch to stop that, but that's no different then getting a no-steam patch, neither stop that. Apparently, Stalker's dev's didn't think Steam was that safe, it's got more limits then the DVD version: Steam required, online activation with 5 activation limit and DRM. Why? Because Steam makes it so much easier to pirate, now a pirate can only install 5 times. That means if they install, no-steam patch & remove, for each patch GSC puts out they need to eat up another install. Great idea imho: same theory as Valve had with HL2 & it's addons: make patches that change how things work so you always need a new non-steam patch to have the games work. Why? For the same reason I said above: you could install it on 30 people's computers & then install 30 no-steam patches. Unlike handing out the disc or even downloading via bittorrent, you get it all directly from valve, fast, easy, simple. Similar to some US states that hand out sterilized needles to druggies so they don't spread blood borne diseases.

My DVD copy needs the disc in the drive & has DRM.

The worst thing about that thread is that the people there don't care if VALVE shoves DRM, limits, etc. on them, but when another company does to protect their own assets, they go banana-ape-poop. Again, the only reason it would be done is because Steam doesn't stop what the DRM/install limits do.

leifhv@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:09 am :

I doubt Valve is to blame for the inclusion of additional DRM in some of the titles they distribute. The producer/developer of the games in question should be blamed for this.

The Happy Friar@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:53 am :

valve is the seller. walmart doesn't sell "A" rated games because it's against their rules, valve could so no DRM/install limits if they wanted. They don't.

leifhv@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:02 pm :

Yes, of course Valve could choose not to sell DRM 'infected' games. Just like Walmart (if they sell games?) could choose not to sell DRM infected games. Do you also blame Walmart for the DRM in Spore?

Either way, the subject line 'Why Steam doesn't work' is quite misleading. In my experience Steam works great but of course it's not a guaranteed that you'll be happy with all the games they distribute but that's the responsibility of the company that actually produce the games.

rebb@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:35 pm :

I've tried Steam, with 2 Games, both experiences have been pretty horrible and i won't be using it again for anything in the future.

It involved transferring corrupted files for BioShock and the fact that Steam forces *always* the german, possibly censored version on everyone from Germany.Valve doesn't even bother introducing an age-verification system, and is too ignorant to accept that people over the age of 18 usually are allowed to get uncut Versions in Germany, be it via ordering in neighbouring countries or otherwise. They just go the simplest way and force one Version on everybody, regardless of age.

Also Steam to this day is not able to use multiple directories on different partitions. You better have one big fat 200GB partition if you install Steam somewhere, otherwise you will have to start juggling games around - amazingly annoying if you like things "tidy" and have multiple Partitions for different tasks.

The way Stardock handled it with Sins of a Solar Empire was quite impressive i thought. For a little extra fee you can get the physical Box of the Game shipped to you - AND download the whole thing if you are impatient.

stabinbac@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:22 pm :

The Happy Friar wrote:

Why Steam doesn't work

The Happy Friar wrote:

Stalker:CS reviles what steam actually is: a way to make $$, nothing more.

They are a business. They want to make money. They like eating food. It was NEVER hidden.

Wow, Steam works! I have a strange suspicion that steam greatly increases sales for any game on it. It would also be ridiculous for Valve to start forcing policies on the developers.

I'd be far more supportive of the anti-drm crowd if most of them weren't a lunatic lynch mob.

Kristian Joensen@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:16 pm :

Wait ? Are you sure that the 5-installation/activation limit is not also in the retail version ?

Instantly access your favorite gamesThe full Steam library and all future Steam releases are at your fingertips. After you've purchased a game, download it immediately and start playing.

and

Quote:

Play your games on any PCOnce you have a Steam account, you can sign in from any PC to access your games. Your games are associated with your account, not your computer.

Valve said that's two advantages of using Steam. They don't apply to all games, so Steam doesn't work like it's advertised. Steam's no different then X-Box Live & Nintendo WiiWare. Valve, Microsoft & Nintendo can set standards for games released. Microsoft & Nintendo refuse to release games that won't work like they want them to, for specifically this reason. Valve doesn't care. Yes, they're a company and they want to make $$, but the whole point of steam was to NOT end up like Stalker: CS. It's worth noting that Direct2Drive says they have install limits AND DRM, PUS if you need more installs they will grant them to you. Steam doesn't do this. I've e-mailed D2D support to see what they say. Yes, wallmart could say they won't sell DRM + install limit games, but that's not THEIR rules, their rules is no AO games. Steam's implied rule was no separate DRM & install limits. If HL2 had a 5 install limit I'm sure nearly all people who bought it would of broken that limit within a day of release.

Kristian Joensen wrote:

Wait ? Are you sure that the 5-installation/activation limit is not also in the retail version ?

no one with a DVD had ever said there was a limit, the GSC forums have no noticed of a DVD limit. And it's not because people wouldn't complain: those forums make steam forums look like a love-in.

stabinbac@Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:06 am :

Steam still works in exactly the same way. They provide the files for you on any PC. The limits are within the game software itself aren't they? Steam will install a complete functioning piece of software on any computer. The problem is that failing to run due to install limits is the software running properly.

Unless Valve is doing the verifying and/or introduced the limited install software, then they can't really be blamed that your version is restricted. It's GSC's fault.

leifhv@Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:27 am :

The Happy Friar wrote:

They don't apply to all games, so Steam doesn't work like it's advertised.

Steam works as advertised as long as the game allows it. Steam is obviously not responsible for how each game is implemented, it's just a distribution channel.

The Happy Friar wrote:

Yes, wallmart could say they won't sell DRM + install limit games, but that's not THEIR rules, their rules is no AO games.

I didn't say that Walmart had a 'No DRM' rule (They don't and neither do Steam...which is a pity). I asked if you blamed Walmart for the DRM in Spore?

The Happy Friar wrote:

If HL2 had a 5 install limit I'm sure nearly all people who bought it would of broken that limit within a day of release.

You think that nearly all HL2 customers would install it 5 times within 24 hours after purchase? Really?

The Happy Friar@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:01 am :

valve said steam would eliminate the need for separate DRM because it was unbreakable. It would free up gamers to never need a CD/dvd again as they could reinstall w/o issues whenever they wanted. You couldn't pirate/cheat the system because you could only be on one computer at a time, so you couldn't buy one copy of a game, install it on 30 people's computer & then all play at once.

Stalker:CS reviles what steam actually is: a way to make $$, nothing more. People who say otherwise are told they're wrong, they're just haters, they're pirates, etc.

You could blame the Stalker dev's but are they really to blame? DVD copy has DRM but that's it. The disc is needed in the drive which means you need a legit disc to get it to work. Yes, I'm sure you can get a patch to stop that, but that's no different then getting a no-steam patch, neither stop that. Apparently, Stalker's dev's didn't think Steam was that safe, it's got more limits then the DVD version: Steam required, online activation with 5 activation limit and DRM. Why? Because Steam makes it so much easier to pirate, now a pirate can only install 5 times. That means if they install, no-steam patch & remove, for each patch GSC puts out they need to eat up another install. Great idea imho: same theory as Valve had with HL2 & it's addons: make patches that change how things work so you always need a new non-steam patch to have the games work. Why? For the same reason I said above: you could install it on 30 people's computers & then install 30 no-steam patches. Unlike handing out the disc or even downloading via bittorrent, you get it all directly from valve, fast, easy, simple. Similar to some US states that hand out sterilized needles to druggies so they don't spread blood borne diseases.

My DVD copy needs the disc in the drive & has DRM.

The worst thing about that thread is that the people there don't care if VALVE shoves DRM, limits, etc. on them, but when another company does to protect their own assets, they go banana-ape-poop. Again, the only reason it would be done is because Steam doesn't stop what the DRM/install limits do.

leifhv@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:09 am :

I doubt Valve is to blame for the inclusion of additional DRM in some of the titles they distribute. The producer/developer of the games in question should be blamed for this.

The Happy Friar@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:53 am :

valve is the seller. walmart doesn't sell "A" rated games because it's against their rules, valve could so no DRM/install limits if they wanted. They don't.

leifhv@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:02 pm :

Yes, of course Valve could choose not to sell DRM 'infected' games. Just like Walmart (if they sell games?) could choose not to sell DRM infected games. Do you also blame Walmart for the DRM in Spore?

Either way, the subject line 'Why Steam doesn't work' is quite misleading. In my experience Steam works great but of course it's not a guaranteed that you'll be happy with all the games they distribute but that's the responsibility of the company that actually produce the games.

rebb@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:35 pm :

I've tried Steam, with 2 Games, both experiences have been pretty horrible and i won't be using it again for anything in the future.

It involved transferring corrupted files for BioShock and the fact that Steam forces *always* the german, possibly censored version on everyone from Germany.Valve doesn't even bother introducing an age-verification system, and is too ignorant to accept that people over the age of 18 usually are allowed to get uncut Versions in Germany, be it via ordering in neighbouring countries or otherwise. They just go the simplest way and force one Version on everybody, regardless of age.

Also Steam to this day is not able to use multiple directories on different partitions. You better have one big fat 200GB partition if you install Steam somewhere, otherwise you will have to start juggling games around - amazingly annoying if you like things "tidy" and have multiple Partitions for different tasks.

The way Stardock handled it with Sins of a Solar Empire was quite impressive i thought. For a little extra fee you can get the physical Box of the Game shipped to you - AND download the whole thing if you are impatient.

stabinbac@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:22 pm :

The Happy Friar wrote:

Why Steam doesn't work

The Happy Friar wrote:

Stalker:CS reviles what steam actually is: a way to make $$, nothing more.

They are a business. They want to make money. They like eating food. It was NEVER hidden.

Wow, Steam works! I have a strange suspicion that steam greatly increases sales for any game on it. It would also be ridiculous for Valve to start forcing policies on the developers.

I'd be far more supportive of the anti-drm crowd if most of them weren't a lunatic lynch mob.

Kristian Joensen@Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:16 pm :

Wait ? Are you sure that the 5-installation/activation limit is not also in the retail version ?

Instantly access your favorite gamesThe full Steam library and all future Steam releases are at your fingertips. After you've purchased a game, download it immediately and start playing.

and

Quote:

Play your games on any PCOnce you have a Steam account, you can sign in from any PC to access your games. Your games are associated with your account, not your computer.

Valve said that's two advantages of using Steam. They don't apply to all games, so Steam doesn't work like it's advertised. Steam's no different then X-Box Live & Nintendo WiiWare. Valve, Microsoft & Nintendo can set standards for games released. Microsoft & Nintendo refuse to release games that won't work like they want them to, for specifically this reason. Valve doesn't care. Yes, they're a company and they want to make $$, but the whole point of steam was to NOT end up like Stalker: CS. It's worth noting that Direct2Drive says they have install limits AND DRM, PUS if you need more installs they will grant them to you. Steam doesn't do this. I've e-mailed D2D support to see what they say. Yes, wallmart could say they won't sell DRM + install limit games, but that's not THEIR rules, their rules is no AO games. Steam's implied rule was no separate DRM & install limits. If HL2 had a 5 install limit I'm sure nearly all people who bought it would of broken that limit within a day of release.

Kristian Joensen wrote:

Wait ? Are you sure that the 5-installation/activation limit is not also in the retail version ?

no one with a DVD had ever said there was a limit, the GSC forums have no noticed of a DVD limit. And it's not because people wouldn't complain: those forums make steam forums look like a love-in.

stabinbac@Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:06 am :

Steam still works in exactly the same way. They provide the files for you on any PC. The limits are within the game software itself aren't they? Steam will install a complete functioning piece of software on any computer. The problem is that failing to run due to install limits is the software running properly.

Unless Valve is doing the verifying and/or introduced the limited install software, then they can't really be blamed that your version is restricted. It's GSC's fault.

leifhv@Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:27 am :

The Happy Friar wrote:

They don't apply to all games, so Steam doesn't work like it's advertised.

Steam works as advertised as long as the game allows it. Steam is obviously not responsible for how each game is implemented, it's just a distribution channel.

The Happy Friar wrote:

Yes, wallmart could say they won't sell DRM + install limit games, but that's not THEIR rules, their rules is no AO games.

I didn't say that Walmart had a 'No DRM' rule (They don't and neither do Steam...which is a pity). I asked if you blamed Walmart for the DRM in Spore?

The Happy Friar wrote:

If HL2 had a 5 install limit I'm sure nearly all people who bought it would of broken that limit within a day of release.

You think that nearly all HL2 customers would install it 5 times within 24 hours after purchase? Really?