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Topic: Why I decided to become a Wiccan (Read 20966 times)

Reason is is because http://www.youtube.com/user/nigella4me has videos that stand up for wiccans, witches, pagans etc. and She (nigella4me) is the person of whom I learned about Wicca, Wiccans etc. first from and I decided that being a Wiccan is cool so I decided to become a Wiccan.

I self-identified as a wiccan for more years than I am willing to admit on this forum.

For me, it felt "real." The holidays were "real." They were the equinoxes and the solstices, and the crosspoints between the equinoxes and the solstices. Most holidays celebrated by the Christian world were variations on ancient pagan celebrations. On the darkest nights of the year, we put lights on the evergreen, to honor the tree that stays green when the others become bare and appear dead, and we put lights on it to remember that both the green and the light will return. Just after the spring equinox, we celebrate growth and rebirth by honoring fertility symbols such as eggs and rabbits.

At the halfway point between the fall equinox and the winter solstice, wiccans mark the beginning of the season of darkness. Wiccans believe that everything begins in darkness, like the seed that sprouts in the darkness of the soil, or the embryo that grows in the darkness of the womb. So sunsets marked the beginning of a new day, and the season of darkness is the beginning of the year.

I was drawn to the images of cycles, and the idea that in death, we decompose and become part of the life cycle by fertilizing the soil and making it rich for plant life and insect life that will feed animal life, and the cycle of life continues. I still embrace this concept.

Wicca is poetic. It felt good to embrace. Wiccans hug a lot. Chanting around candles and calling the powers of the cardinal directions feels oddly profound. Drawing on nature to give you the strength to face difficult challenges feels, I imagine, quite a bit like asking your personal friend Jesus to give you the strength to face difficult challenges. And there is a resulting sort of self-hypnosis that really makes you believe you have more strength than you did before. There is a strong code of "doing no harm," while at the same time seeking joy. There is a lot about wicca that I still find appealing.

I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences with wicca, Fira. When I clicked on the link in your op, I got a video about a Chihuahua doing dog tricks.

Edited to add: I was raised in a secular humanist household. After a long life journey, when I became a mother, I made a conscious decision to return to the rational thought and the values systems of my own childhood. Which is actually a very wiccan thing to do.

^^^All that wicca stuff is cool and actually based on the realities of natural cycles. Nothing wrong with celebrating life and the fact of being alive. Funny how Christians hate it when you remind them that is where their holidays, rituals and symbols come from.

Sometimes when I am feeling particularly onery, I tell my students about how the symbolism of Santa Claus, with his reindeer, red coat and white trim dates back to northern European pagan rebirth rituals where secret cults of women would have an orgy with a man and then tear him to bits and leave his red blood on the white snow...tell that to the little kiddies after they watch the holiday specials on the holiest night of the year.

Merry Christmas, dammit. And watch your backs, guys.

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When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

I agree but I know that wiccans have gods. I know they are different from the Christian God. My question is considering there IS a story of creation there must be a creator. Why then would you worship say the moon and stars rather than the one who created them? Whatever your religion may be I have just always found this curious.

For a physical example, To marvel at the assembly line. Maybe even (just to keep the context) bow down to it all the while ignoring the Henry Ford who created it.

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I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

How is this an example of worshiping the created rather than the creator?

At least I'm not mocking or at least not meaning to. Your example starts with something created add in a bit of fancy and there you have described God?At least I made Him the creator of something. I honestly seek to understand the Wicca mindset. I feel this is a valid question.

Although I understand your god may be an accurate description in your mind, it is at the root offensive and meant to mock.

Is my observation correct that rather than add an intelligent idea your point is only to mock or am I way off base? Hope this doesn't offend. I see this as a valid question also.

Although I understand your god may be an accurate description in your mind, it is at the root offensive and meant to mock.

Surprisingly, to me, your above statement applies directly to the Christian god, or at least some descriptions of that entity that I have seen. I'm not sure if you intended that at all or what, but, insofar as I can tell, Christians feel that their description of god is accurate in their mind, but that description honestly feels like a mockery of the human condition.

"Your lot in life is a result of what your ancestors did, many many many moons ago, to insult god. This god, who can do anything, knows everything, and is the epitome of love, will consign you to eternal suffering if you do not <insert whatever it is one is supposed to do for salvation, but it did, in some way, involve god sending his 'son' (who also happens to actually be god, but not really, but actually is god, paradoxically)>. Joy and suffering that you and everyone else experience in this material life is meaningless in comparison to the grand scheme of the eternity of the afterlife. This is all true because {faith, old book, 'feelings that I have', etc.}."

Some Christians accept that the above is more-or-less true. They feel, in their minds, that this is an accurate portrayal of how the world is. And it is insulting to the notions of morality and thinking. It allows for one to feel totally comfortable with a starving child (i.e. they'll get a mansion in the afterlife, or it's god's will so it's ultimately good, etc.). It allows for one to feel righteous in any arbitrary circumstance they see fit (i.e. let's shove a plane into a building, or let's blow up an abortion doctor, or let's cut off the balls of an 8-year old child and force him into life as a monk, etc., because that's what god wants. This is all true because {faith, old book, 'feelings that I have', etc.}).

"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

Why do wiccans or any pagans worship the moon or stars or plants or animals or the forces of nature?

Seems pretty obvious to me: because these things are intriguing, powerful or beautiful, and most importantly, real.

Everyone can agree that they exist. They affect people's everyday lives. Who knows if they are "created" by something larger and more powerful or not?[1] The powerful or beautiful things that clearly exist seem to be worth worshiping to some people.

Although I understand your god may be an accurate description in your mind, it is at the root offensive and meant to mock.

Surprisingly, to me, your above statement applies directly to the Christian god, or at least some descriptions of that entity that I have seen. I'm not sure if you intended that at all or what, but, insofar as I can tell, Christians feel that their description of god is accurate in their mind, but that description honestly feels like a mockery of the human condition.

"Your lot in life is a result of what your ancestors did, many many many moons ago, to insult god. This god, who can do anything, knows everything, and is the epitome of love, will consign you to eternal suffering if you do not <insert whatever it is one is supposed to do for salvation, but it did, in some way, involve god sending his 'son' (who also happens to actually be god, but not really, but actually is god, paradoxically)>. Joy and suffering that you and everyone else experience in this material life is meaningless in comparison to the grand scheme of the eternity of the afterlife. This is all true because {faith, old book, 'feelings that I have', etc.}."

Some Christians accept that the above is more-or-less true. They feel, in their minds, that this is an accurate portrayal of how the world is. And it is insulting to the notions of morality and thinking. It allows for one to feel totally comfortable with a starving child (i.e. they'll get a mansion in the afterlife, or it's god's will so it's ultimately good, etc.). It allows for one to feel righteous in any arbitrary circumstance they see fit (i.e. let's shove a plane into a building, or let's blow up an abortion doctor, or let's cut off the balls of an 8-year old child and force him into life as a monk, etc., because that's what god wants. This is all true because {faith, old book, 'feelings that I have', etc.}).

was it that my comment was positioned before the quote that confused you?

I do see how you and others can be offended at the hearing of the Gospel. After all who likes to be told they are a dirty sinner who on his own would burn up in the presence of pure Holy Rightiousness. I also see the non-sense of it all too. After all who doesn't wish to believe they really are a good person. To name but one item. I also believe these things are not something that can or will be accepted without direct intervention from the Holy Spirit. I can not change your mind nor do I wish it. I only want to help weed out What is NOT Christian from what is.

God IS love this is true. However, He IS Holy, and He IS Justice. He made Law He IS Law. All of this being true (at least pretend for a moment) would it not be a direct contradiction to His own nature to just give a wink and let those who practice lawlessness just go free? You would be outraged if a human judge walked Manson or Bundy because he loves them. Yet you expect God MUST do it? May I ask why you impose such things on God but not man?

Also much of what you site as immoral wasn't even Christian in nature. As for God's will concerning ethiopians I assure you the heart of Christians break. The way you twist it it's more Buddhist and/or Hindu. Karma related type religions.

Wait the abortion Dr. bombings. I believe that was some fringe nut job "Christian" group. Or Maybe it was only reported that way? This is still not supported in the Bible. A true Christian is commanded Rom12:19 "vengeance is unto the Lord your God... Leave room for the wrath of God." Even if that Dr is a murderer, we are to love him anyway. Yet be separated from such a man.

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I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Why do wiccans or any pagans worship the moon or stars or plants or animals or the forces of nature?

Seems pretty obvious to me: because these things are intriguing, powerful or beautiful, and most importantly, real.

Everyone can agree that they exist. They affect people's everyday lives. Who knows if they are "created" by something larger and more powerful or not?[1] The powerful or beautiful things that clearly exist seem to be worth worshiping to some people.

And once you go there, why stop? Logically you can ask who created the more powerful thing? And who created that more powerful thing?

In this you have thrown out that Wiccans in fact believe there IS a creator. If everyone agreed we would all be Wiccan.

So while you, the wiccan and I agree there is a moon. You, the wiccan, and I all disagree on how it got there. Two of us agree it was created in some way. The wiccan knowing of the creator worships the moon. I knowing of the moon, worship the creator. My question for the Wiccan is why?

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I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

However, He IS Holy, and He IS Justice. He made Law He IS Law. All of this being true (at least pretend for a moment) would it not be a direct contradiction to His own nature to just give a wink and let those who practice lawlessness just go free?

But your alleged god *does* let people walk free on Earth! It consistently ignores the people who cry out for help as they are being raped, murdered, dying of an aggressive and painful disease, or otherwise desperately in need of the help that they have been told their god will provide. The only assurance of "justice" Christianity offers is of some mythical eternal torture, which is infinitely out of proportion to even the very worst crime that a mortal could ever commit -- And therefore the absolute antithesis of any meaningful definition of the word "justice."

No one -- I repeat, absolutely no one who has ever existed or who shall ever exist -- deserves to be tortured for eternity. There are no exceptions.

I am appalled that you make excuses for your god's inaction here in the real world, and continue to worship it despite its heinous, sadistic and infinite evil in the afterlife.

Now if you'll excuse Me, this particular cultural heiðinn goddess has a pussycat to pet.

Why do wiccans or any pagans worship the moon or stars or plants or animals or the forces of nature?

Seems pretty obvious to me: because these things are intriguing, powerful or beautiful, and most importantly, real.

Everyone can agree that they exist. They affect people's everyday lives. Who knows if they are "created" by something larger and more powerful or not?[1] The powerful or beautiful things that clearly exist seem to be worth worshiping to some people.

And once you go there, why stop? Logically you can ask who created the more powerful thing? And who created that more powerful thing?

In this you have thrown out that Wiccans in fact believe there IS a creator. If everyone agreed we would all be Wiccan.

So while you, the wiccan and I agree there is a moon. You, the wiccan, and I all disagree on how it got there. Two of us agree it was created in some way. The wiccan knowing of the creator worships the moon. I knowing of the moon, worship the creator. My question for the Wiccan is why?

I think you missed the gist of my post.

Yes, we all agree there is a moon. Yes, some people (with no evidence) have decided that it was created by powerful beings of some sort. (Then they spend time and energy trying to figure out stuff about the powerful beings, instead of trying to figure out the moon.) Yes, some of these people worship the moon itself, others worship the powerful being they believe created the moon.[2]

Some people worship nature because it is clearly beautiful, scary, powerful, and real. Some people worship invisible magical beings because they have been told that they are beautiful, scary, powerful, and real. But neither group can explain, with evidence that is convincing, why anything needs to be worshiped at all.

Worship of nature or invisible, magical beings does not affect reality in any way and makes no sense without a lot of cultural conditioning. If any religion worked in the real world, then there would be only that one religion. It would make immediate sense to everyone, regardless of culture, and everyone on the planet would be members. Instead you have to make up reasons why there are thousands of different competing religions--equally implausible and ineffective-- that all claim to be the truth, with new ones appearing every day.

You should not need missionaries going around telling other people about your religion. If it is the one that works and makes perfect sense, they would already know. You should not need special sacred books full of implausible stories--everyone would already believe. Just like everyone believes in the moon without being told by others.

was it that my comment was positioned before the quote that confused you?

I do see how you and others can be offended at the hearing of the Gospel. After all who likes to be told they are a dirty sinner who on his own would burn up in the presence of pure Holy Rightiousness. I also see the non-sense of it all too. After all who doesn't wish to believe they really are a good person. To name but one item. I also believe these things are not something that can or will be accepted without direct intervention from the Holy Spirit. I can not change your mind nor do I wish it. I only want to help weed out What is NOT Christian from what is.

If my knowledge of Christ - my belief in the existence of god - is entirely dependent upon divine intervention, and, presumably, it's god who does the divine intervening, then clearly he does not want me to believe that he exists. Believing that he actually, in reality, exists will go a very, very, very, very, very, very, long way in helping me to believe that there exists any kind of definition of what is and what is not a Christian. If god simply does not want me to believe in his existence, you know what? That's fine. His business. With any sort of threat of torture, certainly eternal torture? That's just cruel, for one, but then you can try to weed out what is or is not Christian, but for everything that is Christian there is a component of "talking to a make believe entity" or "waiting for an imaginary friend to actually help".

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God IS love this is true. However, He IS Holy, and He IS Justice. He made Law He IS Law. All of this being true (at least pretend for a moment) would it not be a direct contradiction to His own nature to just give a wink and let those who practice lawlessness just go free? You would be outraged if a human judge walked Manson or Bundy because he loves them. Yet you expect God MUST do it? May I ask why you impose such things on God but not man?

I expect god to not eternally punish. ETERNALLY. FOREVER. WITHOUT END. You seriously need to take a minute and let that sink in.

I have to be honest - I am truly surprised that so many theists simply do not immediately see the difference between corrective and/or protective punishment and simply punishment, especially in light of this whole ETERNALLY/FOREVER/WITHOUT END schtick going on. Where the s**t do you people think the phrase "teach you a lesson" freakin' come from?

There is imprisoning someone in hopes of some manner of rehabilitation[1]and/or protecting the rest of society from harm, and then there's being a damn sadist who tortures for the sake of increasing suffering.

I mean...damn it. Seems pretty cut and dry.

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Also much of what you site as immoral wasn't even Christian in nature. As for God's will concerning ethiopians I assure you the heart of Christians break. The way you twist it it's more Buddhist and/or Hindu. Karma related type religions.

Wait the abortion Dr. bombings. I believe that was some fringe nut job "Christian" group. Or Maybe it was only reported that way? This is still not supported in the Bible. A true Christian is commanded Rom12:19 "vengeance is unto the Lord your God... Leave room for the wrath of God." Even if that Dr is a murderer, we are to love him anyway. Yet be separated from such a man.

note I do not imply that current judicial and corrective practices are entirely effective at this goal - but I do imply that is the purpose. These are man-made systems, and we're not perfect.

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"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

I just finished watching Shawshank Redemption, the prison movie with Morgan Freeman and that liberal guy married to Susan Sarandon. There is the scene where the corrupt, sadistic, bible-quoting warden throws the hero into "the hole" for a month for mouthing off. The guy is locked in a small, pitch dark cell with only a bucket and a window slit to get his daily food tray.

I had a hard time even thinking about what it would be like to spend a month in a completely dark cell alone with only your own thoughts and the rats. I am a bit claustrophobic-- I think I would be a screaming lunatic after only a day or two. After a month, the warden decides to give the guy another month to "think about" what he has done wrong. At that point in the movie, I wanted to murder the warden with any handy blunt instrument.[1] People go crazy under those conditions, and the guy's friends think he is going to commit suicide.

Now picture being locked in "the hole" for all eternity. Not even burning up in excruciating pain, not even actual torture. Eternity, man. Does it matter what offense the prisoner committed? Would even horrible people like Pol Pot, Uday Hussein or Ann Coulter deserve that? No way. But that is nothing compared to what god has in store for all of us, good, bad and indifferent, if we can't wrap our minds around the right supernatural stuff. Such love, I can't even imagine.

I agree but I know that wiccans have gods. I know they are different from the Christian God. My question is considering there IS a story of creation there must be a creator. Why then would you worship say the moon and stars rather than the one who created them?

In this you have thrown out that Wiccans in fact believe there IS a creator.....(but) while you, the wiccan and I agree there is a moon. You, the wiccan, and I all disagree on how it got there. Two of us agree it was created in some way. The wiccan knowing of the creator worships the moon. I knowing of the moon, worship the creator. My question for the Wiccan is why?

I wonder - did you do as much research and critical thinking of Christianity when you chose it, as you did for Wicca? Because it took me all of one minute and Wikipedia to discover that:

"Wicca is traditionally and primarily a religion centred upon the idea of gender polarity and the worship of a Moon Goddess and a Horned God. The Goddess and the God may be regarded as the Divine Feminine and the Divine Masculine. They are complementary opposites or dualities, bearing similarities to the concept of yin and yang in Taoism. The God and Goddess are generally seen as lovers and equals, the Divine Couple who together co-create the cosmos"

Note the bold. The Moon IS the creator, physically embodied in the skies above.

Your question is like me saying "I don't get Christians. Yahweh created the world, but they worship Christ! Why worship the son, when they know there is a creator?" You would rightly be astonished at my lack of understanding, and tut at how I feel able to criticise a religion without even bothering to check the very basics.

(this was my comment to what I quoted with no comment just before this.. sorry)

As for Hell call your crime treason against The king of Kings. As for Heaven, God is there, and Millions of bible thumpin' Jesus freaks. Nothing to do but worship, sing praise, and give Glory to our God for eternity. I ask you is it a place you want to be anyway? Maybe there in is the Justice. Don't reject the king and then get mad cause you can't live in His kingdom.

This will shock you but you live in a fallen wicked world. Most of which rejects God. Most that profess God are false, liers, and wicked. Christian in name only. Evil is a product of the fallen (not created) nature of man. You ask for utopia and mock the one who would give it? Who do you think you are to even question God and His motives? Who are you that demands God to move? If you had a clue what sin means. If you understood what Holy and Righteous mean... If you could even grasp what it means to be the sovereign God of All, you would declare With Me... I am not worthy of you O Lord. I deserve Hell. I deserve justice. By the Blood of Christ I am made righteous. Not because I deserve to be, But because He loves me

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I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project