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Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

I'm worried Bird will face the pressure of winning and do a panic trade that lands us a more talented PG, but doesn't make sense long term. I've been patient with Bird, but his actions this past year(drafting Hansbrough over PG and keeping O'Brien) really have me starting to quesion him as a GM. I feel like he has a good idea of how to build a team, but he's doing it the wrong way in my opinion and especially doing it with the wrong coach. This is kinda a make or break year with him I believe, he needs to be smart with the moves he makes.

I'm with you that I'm not sure how good of a GM he is (especially when he needed to fire O'Brien and didn't), but I don't think he makes a panic trade. If anything, he's shown himself to take the opposite approach.

While his options have been limited by the long-term contracts of mediocre players, I'm sure he's had opportunities to deal and has declined. He's pretty deliberate and seems to have a clear plan he will stick to, even if fans like me think he should be more aggressive to add talent and excitement. And, he's likely determined to avoid making another lopsided trade like the GS trade (whoever had final say so).

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

Any trade Bird does won't be for a Parker/Brand type player. Bird isn't a big splash type person. Conservative trades are his MO. And I agree with what Count said about whatever trade Bird does make many won't like.

To me the biggest type splash trade would be one for Collison, but a more likely type conservative trade would be for Sessions, or a Ridnour/Blake S&T type trade.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

I am all about getting our hands on Collison. He played very well while Paul was down (19 & 9) and I highly doubt NO can keep both guys happy - both are pure PG’s who cannot play the 2. Considering he only played 35 games as a starter, is he worth #10 though?

What if we moved #10 to MN for #16 & #23 and then flipped a package around #16 to NO?

#16, #40, TJ (8.5M expiring), and Foster (6.6M expiring) for Collison and Peja (15.3M expiring) would work. NO would get a couple decent picks and two expiring players that could actually benefit their rotation (backup PG & C). We would get our PG while keeping the cap relief for next year.

We would still have #23. A guy like Bradley, George, Bledsoe, or Sanders may be there.

That deal could also be tweaked by replacing Foster with Solo (1.5M expiring) and Peja with Songaila & Mopete (11.5M expiring).

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

I'd love to get Collison, but my guess would be that they'd want to give us a bad contract in return like Emeka or Posey. They're selling high on Collison so they could maybe get a team to do that. Posey could make some sense if we traded out Dunleavy or something.

I wonder if he'll revisit talks with the Bobcats since we nearly traded for Felton (or was it Augustin?) and Henderson. It's possible that they'd try to work out another deal since one almost happened. Felton would be S&T, DJ I'm not sure how he'd do in starting minutes. And he's small, but so is DC. I'd prefer to get a bigger PG personally, but would be happy with DC based on his production for NO.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

I doubt that we'd be "trading up" ( since there really isn't anyone that will make a huge difference on this Team outside of Wall and/or Evans ) and think ( like many have suggested here ) that it would make sense that Bird will have "trading partners" in hand based off of whether certain Players will drop to the 10 spot.

Who do you think are Players that could drop to the 10th spot?

My guess is some combination of Monroe/Aldrich/Udoh COULD BE avaialble at the 10th spot. It's not unreasonable to assume that there will be at least 1 or 2 Players drop to the 10th spot because other Teams either "reach" for some Player and/or some Player Leapfrogs a few spots in the coming weeks ( due to great workouts with Teams ) to push down someone unexpected into the 10th spot.

This leads to the next question.....what Teams between the 11th ( Hornets ) to 26th ( Thunder ) spots may be interested in someone that could drop to the 10th spot?

If the TWolves don't go for Cousins with the 4th pick...I can see them having interest in trying to pick up Aldrich before the Hornets ( 11th spot ), Raptors ( 13th spot ) or Rockets ( 14th spot ) can pick him up. To me, the liklihood is that IF someone drops...he will be a Frontcourt PF/C. I can see the Bucks being interested in Monroe to complement Bogut in the Frontcourt.

Thoughts anyone?

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

I'd love to get Collison, but my guess would be that they'd want to give us a bad contract in return like Emeka or Posey. They're selling high on Collison so they could maybe get a team to do that. Posey could make some sense if we traded out Dunleavy or something.

I wonder if he'll revisit talks with the Bobcats since we nearly traded for Felton (or was it Augustin?) and Henderson. It's possible that they'd try to work out another deal since one almost happened. Felton would be S&T, DJ I'm not sure how he'd do in starting minutes. And he's small, but so is DC. I'd prefer to get a bigger PG personally, but would be happy with DC based on his production for NO.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Bobcats do not have a 1st round Draft pick this year. If there is anyone that the Bobcats are interested, I can see something worked out surrounding the aforementioned trade talks surrounding Ford and the 10th pick.

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

Sadly, that might (might) be the only roster in the league that I like less than ours.

I keep hearing this is a "playoff/ 0.500" roster as is.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

I can't say whether we'll like it or not, but I think all of the pressure for the Pacers will be to move faster, not to take longer.

Faster. Dumber-er. Dangerous-er. With a huge, fireball explosion when it blows up.

I've got patience to get the current mess straightened out. I'm not sure I've got patience for the team turning into the New York Knicks, version 2.0. Only without the NYC market's appeal to actually attract a top-tier free agent when we get out of salary cap Hell.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

I think the #10 pick is far and away our best trading asset, and I think we're looking to package it with at least one of the expiring contracts and get a vet.

Despite my spitballing in the Granger #4 thread, I don't see the Pacers making any move that doesn't give an immediate on the floor return.

In fact, I will be shocked if we don't come out of draft night with a new, vet/young vet PG. I can't say whether we'll like it or not, but I think all of the pressure for the Pacers will be to move faster, not to take longer.

+1
This is IT for everyone involved if they don't improve. From O'B and Bird to the whole franchise moving. I think it's fair to assume that every possible move is being looked at to improve the team NOW.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

would we really have to give up the 10th pick to get collison though? wouldn't a package of murphy and rush/hans for emeka and his big contract and collison be close to enough? possibly even throw in ford and a 2nd rounder or future 1st for mopete... i just don't think we'd have to give up #10 for collison.

we do that then draft a guy like henry at #10 and your starting lineup is set with collison, henry, granger, okafor, hibbert

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

I think the #10 pick is far and away our best trading asset, and I think we're looking to package it with at least one of the expiring contracts and get a vet.

Despite my spitballing in the Granger #4 thread, I don't see the Pacers making any move that doesn't give an immediate on the floor return.

In fact, I will be shocked if we don't come out of draft night with a new, vet/young vet PG. I can't say whether we'll like it or not, but I think all of the pressure for the Pacers will be to move faster, not to take longer.

That would lead to the obvious question of what PG works out that would "financially" work with some trade scenario surrounding #10 + ( Pick One of Foster, Dunleavy, Murphy or Ford )?

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

would we really have to give up the 10th pick to get collison though? wouldn't a package of murphy and rush/hans for emeka and his big contract and collison be close to enough? possibly even throw in ford and a 2nd rounder or future 1st for mopete... i just don't think we'd have to give up #10 for collison.

we do that then draft a guy like henry at #10 and your starting lineup is set with collison, henry, granger, okafor, hibbert

I really doubt that the Hornets would part with Collison without including Posey or ( more then likely ) Okafor.

I could possibly consider taking on Posey+Collison+12 for Ford+10....but I would be reluctant to take on Okafor's $11.5 to $14.7 mil Per year / 4 year contract.

Sorry, but Okafor and his contract is a deal breaker for me.

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

I think just about every team except for Washington is trying to, or at least floating the idea out that they are trying to trade their draft pick.
This is when Bird is at his best. When we got rid of JO and got Hibbert, and in the same draft got rid of Ike and our pick (Bayless) for their pick (Rush), Jack, and a bonus throw in of McBob. I like Bayless, but you have to think we won in both of those trades.
If Bird can pull of something like that again I will be estatic.

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Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

yea but put okafor at his natural pf position alongside a hibbert and i'm fairly confident he can become the "dale davis" type of player we are longing for. only a dale davis who can actually hit a jumpshot.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

If they get a good vetweran point guard and if health is good and the team comes together then yes I think they can win 41 games next season. Those are a lot of ifs though.

If they get a good veteran PG and if they can upgrade at SG so that Rush is the sixth man and if Granger is 100% for all 82 games and if they can find a physical PF to split time with Tyler and if they can upgrade the backup PG and C positions and if O'Brien gets fired after the first day of training camp and if they lead the league in fewest-games-missed then they might be 0.500 next season.

But then they'll probably be locked into a bunch of new long term contracts to replace Murphy, Ford, Dunleavy, etc. so they'll be stuck with 0.500 for a few years -- not on their way to contending but a perennial #6,7,8 seed where we're just hoping to get to game #6 of the first round so its "respectable."

(While I'm not very good at math, I count 8 "if's" in there.)

This was a team that only got up to 32 wins because of a late-season flurry led, partially, by the development of a young player that most of PD is ready to give up on and ship out of town.

Some of you have been watching too much playoff basketball and you've forgotten just how far the blue-and-gold is from being a legit playoff team.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

yea but put okafor at his natural pf position alongside a hibbert and i'm fairly confident he can become the "dale davis" type of player we are longing for. only a dale davis who can actually hit a jumpshot.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

we do that then draft a guy like henry at #10 and your starting lineup is set with collison, henry, granger, okafor, hibbert

Not sure about the trade, but if we keep the pick XHenry is who I'm hoping for.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

When we're talking about taking on Okafor, we're talking about committing $$$ on a "Granger-Level" Player....specifically a "Robin" to Granger's "Batman"...or vice versa. The question is....do you think that Okafor is worth that much?

IMHO....it's not worth it given the amount of $$$ that we'd have to commit to in taking on Okafor.

The only trade that I would consider where we get Collison and Okafor is if we swapped Picks:

#11+Okafor+Collison

for

#10+Murphy+Solo

I know that this maybe asking for too much while giving up little on our end....but Okafor's $53.17 mil Guaranteed Contract for the next 4 seasons is a bitter pill to swallow. IMHO....Collison isn't enough of a sweetner to take on Okafor's contract.

Last edited by CableKC; 06-03-2010 at 04:55 PM.

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

Okafor may be expensive, but he is exactly what we are looking for in a big man. Part of the reason these expiring contracts are valuable is because you are taking salary off the other teams hands. The key is to find a servicable player who is also a good fit. Okafor qualifies.

I could stomach it to get Colllison.

Every team has a bad contract. I'm more interested in how it would work on the floor.

"As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

In a trade with New Orleans, I would not give up the #10 unless we are getting CP3. If it made a huge difference I would swap #10 and #13.

Troy Murphy's expiring contract to New Orleans would be worth a lot.

We take Okafor's deal and Collison is the sweetner to take on the extra $41M between Murphy and Okafor. I am NOT giving up a lottery pick to take on the $41M. They are going to be over the cap next year and Collison is redundant for them with CP3. See Utah/OKC trade of Maynor.

I would call Okafor and Murphy a wash talent wise, but I prefer Okafor's skill set out of my PF. And did I mention that Okafor is guaranteed $41M more than Murphy. Collison is the least they could give us. If we are talking about David West instead of Okafor, then we would have to pony up the #10, because his deal is reasonable and he is better and more versatile than Murphy. I would do Murphy (and possibly SJones to help their front court) for Okafor and Collison. That is a great deal for New Orleans, especially since Okafor is not a center and David West is the better PF.

EDIT: Cable you beat me to the punch. I basically reiterated everything you said without knowing ahead of time.

Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

Okafor may be expensive, but he is exactly what we are looking for in a big man. Part of the reason these expiring contracts are valuable is because you are taking salary off the other teams hands. The key is to find a servicable player who is also a good fit. Okafor qualifies.

I could stomach it to get Colllison.

Every team has a bad contract. I'm more interested in how it would work on the floor.

Exactly. And if Okafor brings us what we need at the PF position (as much as he can, that is), that's still far better than the obscene money we've been paying Tinsley to go away, Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy (post-injury; I thought it was fair value in '08), TJ Ford to be our backup / 3rd PG, and Jeff Foster to treat his back injury.

It's still a bad contract, but relative to where we've been and where we are now, it's not that bad. Especially if he's the only one.