Breaking the chains, winning the games, and saving Western Civilization.

Monday, March 9, 2015

Alpha Mail: face to face or forget it

CT feels as if he blew an opportunity:

I just blew an opportunity to meet a potential Christian wife. Not a carousel rider. Found her online and got an intro(facebook) from a female high school aquaintance.

Anyhow, she started with the big compatibility questions. I told her I wanted to meet for coffee or talk on the phone rather than use this damnable chat. She said she never dated much and wanted to take it very slow. Chat only.

A small voice in my head says, this rocket will never launch.

So I answer the questions and sure enough she's gone. No attraction over chat. Big surprise. I'm pretty sick about this a) because there are very few who aren't carousel riders. b) we agree on some of the big compatiblity issues.

No attraction over chat? Over CHAT? That's ridiculous. The truth is that she either didn't like CT's picture or something in his profile, but she didn't want to look shallow in front of her friend. So, she subjected CT to a test, which like a good Delta, he promptly failed.

From the aforementioned post: "the interrogation test is not a qualitative one concerning what answers
are provided by the man, but rather, a quantitative one concerning his
willingness to submit to questioning. It's binary. If you answered the
questions, then you failed."

What he should have done was one of three things:

Refused to answer the questions and sent her an email saying something dismissive like "No thanks. Shoot me an email when you're ready to be a big girl and actually leave the house." If she's going to act like a child, then treat her like a child.

Agree to answer the questions with one caveat. "I will answer one question for each picture of you in a bikini you send me. Two if they'll get me in trouble at work."

Ignore her. When she wiggles the bait and gets in contact later, nuke her with "Yeah, I don't think so. But hey, good luck! Name a cat after me."

Any of these approaches has better odds of going somewhere than meekly submitting to her interrogation. Look, it's not that fucking hard. BEING NICE SCORES NEGATIVE POINTS until attraction is firmly established. Get that through your thick BETA skulls once and for all.

I repeat: BEING NICE SCORES NEGATIVE POINTS WITH WOMEN.

Got it? And being meekly submissive to them is only that much worse. Women are not attracted to nice guys and they despise submissive men. Notice that the woman didn't give a damn about the fact that they agreed on the big compatibility issues. Passing the test had nothing to do with his answers to her questions. He was already toast because he was foolish enough to submit to her frame.

51 comments:

For those men who are looking at Vox's responses as too harsh for a "good" Christian girl, first of all, AWALT. Second of all, a simply, No. I hate chat and if we're not going to meet face to face, then I'm not interested, is going to peek interest. Don't ever let a woman frame what it means to be "good".

Normally I try to avoid the term "shit test". I prefer, "fitness test," since I feel it's a more accurate description of what is going on. And it's less bitchy.

Women have gene code deep instinct to find out what a man's character is really like. What is the man like when the heat is really on? Will he fight the bear for to protect my children? Even he might not know, if he has never tested himself. So she has to test him. Girls literally can't stop themselves from doing this. So face the matter as a grown up man.

But this case, this was a major Shit Test.

Is there any chance that CT could send us a copy of the questions?

This strikes me as a golden opportunity for Black Knighting.

I can't give specifics without the questions. But here are a few ideas:

1. Make fun of each question.

2.Answer each question with a question.

3. Provide nonsense answers.

4. Reply with single word answers. (The right ones might intrigue enough for the face to face meeting.)

See what I mean about those damn qustiony needers. People with questions are people with needs, they need questions answered before they even know you or spend time with you. Being nice and re-stating how nice you breeds major contempt in me.

Nah, the Lord did you a favor. another brother can get her now, maybe next time will be a one who might be better suited for you. Shake girl tree.

TOP NEGS; only if the pics will get me in trouble at work and name a cat after me! Love it, too fun!

Big compatibilty questions out the gate from either side before a in person meetup is a no-no. That's the type of stuff you dig into when you are thinking of marriage. I think the bigger issue is when asking for the date was made...she essentially said 'no'.

Haha, this sounds familiar. I recently met a young lady in Los Angeles [originally from Latin America, I think] who very much wanted to take things further. After a few chats, she emailed me a list of questions to answer, which I reproduce below. Some of them made me laugh.

1) Whats Your Real Name? 2) What do you seek for in Relationship?3) What type of relationship do you seek for? 4) What interest you Most? 5) What type of Lady are you Looking for? 6) What do you do for a Living? 7) What do you for fun? 8) What are your turn on and Turn off? 9) Can you Love this Lady? 10) Would you hit your Lady with any Reasons? 11) Do you have a Kids?12) Do you want some Kids in the Future? 13) Like How Many Kids do you want? 14) Why are you single? 15) What have you experience when U have been single?16) Does Distance and Age Matters to you most? 17) Are you Looking for a Tug or someone who Loves going to Club,and whoas tattoos?18) What is Love to you? 19) How do you treat your Lady? 20) Do you Have faith? 21) Are you religion? 22) What Church do you attend to? 23) Do you Love Public Intimacy? 24) What do you Like and What you don't Like? 25) Whats your Favorite Food and whats your favorite Movies and Colors?

Needless to say, I ignored these questions as well as her subsequent calls. I don't have time for this shit. Too weird.

Many years ago I joined a Christian dating group. The VERY first lesson I learned was that "Christian" girls are just like non-Christian girls. I adapted, worked on myself, and eventually met my wife there, but a lot of guys never lost the idea that the girls would like them because they were good Christian men. And there was a lot of "I shouldn't have to change who I am, she should like me for me, of she's a real Christian."

Asking for a bikini photo is a shit test. It shows you're not a Christian in that you value modesty. Anyone who sends a revealing photo has disqualified themselves.

I would answer some basic questions, but be vague intentionally. I would exchange a few questions and refuse to answer "the big compatibility questions" without a face to face meeting. If she is still interested after receiving your answers, then you must pursue the date. Otherwise, refuse to answer any more questions.

I've been through this myself. A person that I exchanged emails with also wanted to continue to chat online for much much longer. I refused. I told her that if we are compatible through email, then we should meet to decide if we are compatible in a real relationship or just break up to meet other people.

"So I answer the questions and sure enough she's gone."

Sorry to burst your bubble. There is no assurance any date will be successful. A mere email is fleeting. A actual date is more fleeting. Dating is a numbers game. The more you try, the odds improve.

When Vox is busy, the straight talk flows and I think it's his best advice, just cuts through the BS. The primary point is that attraction must be established first and foremost. Without attraction to bust down the door, she'll never get the chance to know what a fine and exciting husband a man might make. Many men miss the opportunity because they stand and knock at the door. Break the damn thing down. Be bold! "Be strong and courageous."

I've ran into this before as well. Shoot a couple emails back and forth, I ask for a date, and get the rebuttal we don't know each other that well so let's get to know more over the email. Basically with women it's either 'yes' or a million different ways to say no...but very rarely is it a straight 'no'.

I had this come up a few times and always just responded with plenty of sarcasm, because by that point I really didn't care. After all, we're talking about a girl who has just sent you a list of questions rather than attempting to have a normal conversation.

Meeting for coffee is perfect. If you don't like her you can keep it short and if she really misrepresented herself you can just leave, which might sound cruel but is way less trouble for both of you than dropping her off at a random gas station. And if it clicks then you can always go somewhere else after coffee.

I appreciate the input folks. I knew I was doing it wrong and I disregarded my admittedly weak instincts.

Now that I've got my head on straight, I can hardly read the chat thread. It is pathetic. I sure won't be sharing it.

She had sent me a link to her blog which detailed her struggle with singleness and never being asked. There was even a video recording her testimony regarding her struggle that is on her church's website. I got the sense that she is fairly shy.

She had sent me a link to her blog which detailed her struggle with singleness and never being asked. There was even a video recording her testimony regarding her struggle that is on her church's website. I got the sense that she is fairly shy.

Wait a few weeks (zero contact from you between now and then), then send her an email saying something like "Hey, I'm going to be at blah blah blah next Thursday night for blah blah blah. I'll save you a seat if you want to show up."

Nothing more. Just invite her to something you're doing. No reference to your prior exchanges, no attemps to explain your previous behavior, just an invitation to a date. Women second-guess themselves too, especially if their own pickings have been slim. Don't count on her showing up, but it's worth an email and going someplace interesting to find out. If she responds with anything other than and enthusiastic "Okay, sure, I'll be there" then just reply "No problem, see you around."

If nothing else, it's practice for the next woman. This one might be too crazy for you to want to be with, but that's all the more reason to practice on her. No biggie if you screw up.

NOTE: do not halt efforts to meet and date other women while you let some time go by. She's just one of many possibilities and you are pursuing all of them... right?

I'll put in a word of support for CT. I'm sure he could have handled himself better, but why should the woman expect more than CT delivered? If she is struggling with singleness and no one asking, why shoot down CT so quickly? Seems counterproductive to her stated goal of ending her singleness not to give potential mates more opportunity.

The biblical word for "modest" is kosmios, which comes from kosmos. Literally, it means "orderly".

It would be disorderly of a woman to wear bikinis to a church service, as that would draw men's attention from where it should be at that moment, to where it shouldn't. But it isn't disorderly to do so privately when requested. Of course, it wouldn't be disorderly to refuse either. That's up to the woman. But it is not a sin to comply.

She had sent me a link to her blog which detailed her struggle with singleness and never being asked. There was even a video recording her testimony regarding her struggle that is on her church's website. I got the sense that she is fairly shy.

'She had sent me a link to her blog which detailed her struggle with singleness and never being asked. There was even a video recording her testimony regarding her struggle that is on her church's website.'

It's frustrating when you ask a gal out...and then later she laments about how no guys ever ask her out or she's never getting dates.

We're just talking about a woman photographed in a bikini that she passes along to men she will date to become his wife. This makes sense? In the context of Christianity, it is worse. Yet you cry about this as an instance of "Churchianity" as in a feminist church, which thinks this is actually a good thing (girl power). If you're a traditional Christian, women don't do these things.

Hiding women under burkas instead of teaching people to control their emotions is for half-savages.

Both/and not either/or. Christendom has always instilled in her people the need to control for emotions. That doesn't mean modesty was left to the wayside. Women in Christian countries always covered themselves, even their hair. That doesn't mean they wore a burka, but they dressed far better than today's Wal-Mart style. Modesty also means, as Markku noted, wearing the right things at the right time. A bikini (bra and panties) is fine for a husband to see, not fine for a random guy she might date on the internet.

BEING NICE SCORES NEGATIVE POINTS until attraction is firmly established.

It scores negative points with women even after attraction is established. Did some nice things for my girlfriend of 4 months because I thought I was being to distant. Completely misread that situation and now she's an ex-girlfriend. 5 years reading this stuff and I still have to get it through my thick skull to not be too beta.

an instance of "Churchianity" as in a feminist church, which thinks this is actually a good thing (girl power).

Oh really? Feminists like the sexy? No, they don't. Especially as thirty receeds in their rear-view mirror. Every generation of feminists like the notion of sexy girl power while they're in their twenties. Then as the wall loom and the male attention wanes, they discover how horrible it is for pretty young things to let people know just how pretty and young they are.

You are not seeing the picture. If you are already going somewhere, it costs you nothing to try. You are clearly still in an one-itis mindset. You do not have to pursue one woman at a time. You notice that something on your schedule has a woman-sized vacancy in it. So, you throw an email to one of the girls that you might potentially be interested in. (Or two, if you have reached that level.) If she refuses, you respond with "ok". This costs you literally nothing.

REPEAT, you do not have to pursue one woman at a time. You throw a wide net, and see what gets stuck in it.

NEIN! No more embarassing myself. She isn't going to change her mind over email/chat.

If pointing out to her that you will be at a certain location and she's welcome to join you is embarassing, then you've still got some work to do.

The whole point my friend,is that it's not embarassing to ask a woman out, even if she says no.

Maybe if we accidently crossed paths

This is profoundly Gamma thinking. If you cross paths? if fate wills it? No. Your goal is to be more active that that. You're not waiting for life to send you a woman, you're taking steps to find one for yourself. That's the mindset you need to cultivate. I understand it's not easy - but it is necessary. Women are not going to be attracted to a man waiting for an accident to provide him with a mate. They want a man who will go out and claim one. I encourage you to take a practice run at being that man with this woman. Sure, maybe the possibility is slim, but...

...do you have a better prospect to spend your time on right now?

If so, then by all means invest in the better prospect. But if you don't, then at least give it a go along the lines mentioned. You assume, perhaps correctly, that she's already a lost cause, so what else do you have to lose if she declines? It's free practice. And practice makes perfect, eh?

Give it a shot. What's the worst that could happen? Suppose she throws a drink in your face and dumps a Ceasar salad on your head. If you come back here and report "well guys, it didn't go so well..." I'll laugh with you. Not at you, with you. The search for love is often absurd. We're all in it together.

Maybe one fish gets stuck in the net for just a little while. She goes with you somewhere, but it doesn't lead anywhere. But now, you have been seen with a woman. This increases the interest towards you among other women, ever so slightly. The next fish is more likely to get stuck in the net. Eventually, just by sheer statistical necessity as the strategy becomes more and more effective, someone will get stuck permanently. But this requires you to start the process.

Hmmm. I tangled up two different thoughts in my last post. No, the transcript isn't so bad I'm afraid to see her. LOL Yes, unfortunately I have some gamma traits.

Markku: I asked her out. She wanted chat and fitness tests instead. I failed the tests, lowering my status relative to hers. Yes? She didn't answer my last chat msg. I don't understand how asking her out AGAIN makes sense. It seems to me, it just further lowers my status relative to hers. In the unlikely scenario she accepts, I would be in for a real fitness test treat which I don't have the skills to turn favorable. Lose, Lose.

Now, if she were to respond to my last chat, I would take your advise and tell her where to meet me. Until then I'm disinclined to spend any more time on her.

If I had walked, instead of chatting when she declined coffee the first time, I would have preserved my status. Yes? Then a second try at a later time seems appropriate.

Anyhow, there are other prospects. I'm not sitting on my hands.

Jack: RE: accidental meeting. I think you misunderstood my point . I'm not waiting for chance to deliver me a date. I believe I poisoned things badly enough in this instance that any further initiation on my behalf communicates desperation and is self defeating. Maybe I'm wrong. But I'd rather not have her spread it around facebook at the speed of light.

any further initiation on my behalf communicates desperation and is self defeating.

Who cares what she thinks? If you've poisoned things that badly, then you have zero left to lose. It's heads you win and tails it's a draw. If she thinks you're desperate, she's not going to date you any less than if you never initiate any future contact with her. If you never make another approach with this female, you will have zero, zilch, nada chance at any relationship with her. So, even if asking her out on a date has a 0.0001% chance of working, it's a better chance than sitting on your thumbs.

If I had walked, instead of chatting when she declined coffee the first time, I would have preserved my status. Yes? Then a second try at a later time seems appropriate.

Again, this would be something you'd be doing anyway. Not a date that you prepare for her. If she comes, it's extra. If she doesn't, you haven't lost anything, because now you are doing what you would have done according to your original plan.

The rationale is that you don't take her seriously. And you shouldn't. Some weeks have passed, so who knows what she'll be thinking TODAY. She probably doesn't know herself. You make a quick suggestion, provide the time and place, and if she still refuses, you respond with "ok". If she interrogates you about why you deemed yourself fit to email her again, you respond with "Whatever, girl. Have a nice life."

Also, if she does refuse, that's valuable to you too. You'll get personal experience of the fact that a simple one-word or one-sentence dismissal of that fact does not end the world. You do not need to justify your actions to a woman. In fact, you'll do a lot better not to.