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I have no idea if this is a good idea. It is not a science. If you love animals with a passion you’ll hate the abuse of animals with an equal passion. If you love animals slightly, you’ll dislike the abuse of animals to an equal extent.

The more you genuinely care about animals the more empathy you have for them. You can feel what they feel and that is not anthropomorphizing animals. It is simply being knowledgeable about them and connecting one’s emotions to that knowledge. It is a connection with nature and our roots.

The balance between loving and hating in respect of animals and what happens to them is very similar to Newton’s Third Law, which states that forces are equal and opposite. All forces come in pairs. When you push off the ground with your foot you exert a force on the floor. The floor exerts an equal force on your foot.

The same principles are in play in the balance between caring for animals and hating the abuse and the needless killing of animals.

This is why I hate people who hunt animals for sport. Yes, hate is a strong world but so is love. You can’t hate sport hunting and respect the person who does it. Sport hunting is a human self-indulgence. It cannot be justified. If sport hunters justify it by saying there is a need to cull animals to keep numbers down, I argue that is a false argument.

The only reason why wildlife populations need to be kept down is because human population numbers have risen resulting in an encroachment onto the habitat of wildlife such that the animal then becomes a problem to people. It is a self-induced problem and the solution should be focused on people.

Sport hunting is good for the economy. It is good for people. It is an abuse of animals.

In the long term the planet cannot sustain 7 billion people as the earth’s resources will be depleted in doing it. By 2050 the population will be over 9 billion.

The reason why I say Grumpy cat is exploited and rant about it is because I love Grumpy cat. Why do I love her? Because she is vulnerable. The more vulnerable an animal is the more we should love and care for that animal. There is an equality in that equation too.

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Loving Animals. Hating Hunting. — 50 Comments

I too hate anyone who hunts animals and birds for sport because there is no justification to enjoy killing another living being. I also hate anyone who abuses animals in any way at all. I hate the people who work in slaughter houses and torture the animals before they kill them, bad enough they have to die to satisfy meat eaters, the least they could do is treat the poor creatures with respect.
Animal abusers think they are above those they abuse, they forget that the human race are animals too and in fact many are in reality lower than the lowest form of life because humans are supposed to be humane!
What went wrong?

Ruth I agree with you on all counts except I don’t believe humans are supposed to be humane. I think some can be if they want to be – and that it’s about motivation. People will ignore being humane if they still want to treat animals badly. They will ignore the terrible factors in order to be able to continue the lifestyle/activity. I also think humans can be inhumane, although the word itself is paradoxical because no non human animal is capable of being inhumane even though it isn’t a human. The whole meaning and question of the word ‘human’ or ‘humane’ is an interesting thing to analyse in of itself. It’s meaning maintains the assumption that human qualities are empathetic, kind and sustainable – something which is arguably opposing to what humans, on average in regards to the ecosystem, really are. ‘Humane’ could just as well mean ‘cruel’ to a deer living in the woods. I would argue most animals run for their lives if they see humans. However on the Galapagos islands they don’t, they are naturally curious and come towards humans on friendly terms. I would assume because humans have somehow managed to miss leaving their usual calling card in one tiny corner of this planet. Rather like how cats such as the snow leopard or others in south America, that live far away from our horrendous cultural outposts, will also come towards humans out of curiosity and without threat or particular nastiness. Or at least that’s what I have learn’t from some of Michaels articles here on PoC.

If I run into somebody who hunts I am fine with telling them what I think – and without being rude either. Infact not long ago I was talking to somebody I know through work and he said his girlfriend is a real fancy country girl with a Land Rover Discovery, wearing a Barbour and a pair Hunters wells – and she likes to go fox hunting, something I despise. I told him I thought it was absolutely disgusting and she should be ashamed of herself and furthermore he should tell her to stop doing it immediately. He didn’t take too well. I even asked if he was embarrassed to be associated with such a person.

I also learned of another person who is a close friend of a friend of mine works for a company that brings baby animals like kangaroos and lions to children’s birthday parties. I pretty much freaked out saying babies are not supposed to be taken away from their mothers to be paraded around in front of loud children and that he should quit his pathetic excuse for a job right away. Apparently PETA contacted this company in question and told them, are you ready, that they wanted to take all the animals and euthanize them immediately because they are slaves etc. I don’t think they should be killed – that’s just my opinion. They have given plenty enough to our disgusting species and they deserve and comfortable and as good a life as possible for as long as they live. PETA is weird.

Hunting is awful. When I was a kid at boarding school we had ‘letter writing’ time on Sunday and I wrote to and joined the League Against Cruel Sports – or a name similar to that, which focused on hunting and particularly fox hunting. I was about 9 years old. I have been in the forest in England – or the countryside – there is almost no forest left – and run into fox hunting. It’s loud ridiculous and cruel. It’s scary too – you have to really stay out the way. I am very much against it and the whole argument that something should be ok because it’s a cultural tradition. ‘Cultural tradition’ just means all the more that it has to stop. Culture has proven itself time and time again to be a disaster to this ecosystem in countless ways. It’s like the Japanese hunting whales claiming it’s a tradition. The can take their tradition and shove it down a well as far as I’m concerned.

Fox hunting is a bunch of toffs “protecting country pursuits” in the time honoured way. A ghastly, crude and barbaric throwback.

Yes, snow leopards living mainly in the region north of the Himalayas have not quite yet learnt how dangerous humans are because they live remote lives. They are almost tame and farmers shoot them with ease. Things are changing because of the Snow Leopard Trust who do great work educating the people and setting up smart conservation programmes.

The Andean Mountain Cat in South America is another cat that due to its remote habitat has not had enough contact with people to understand that they are dangerous. They are killed easily with rocks being dropped on them. They are stuffed and used for good luck. God, the human is sad.

I see what you mean. I think your last question has also given you the answer. This is how I see it; If everyone were to be vegetarian I think that would mean they wanted no harm to come to animals, which in turn (in my mind anyway) would mean that people who meant no harm to animals would be good, kind people therefore with nothing but good, kind people we would be living in a perfect world. Don’t you agree Ben? 🙂

Do you think its possible to grow enough food to feed the entire world? I don’t think we have enough available land. We like to grow our own but thats not a possibility for many people. Also doesn’t a healthy diet require a certain amount of animal protein. I believe there are certain amino acids that can only be gotten from meat.

It has everything to do with hunting. I don’t hunt for fun. I take no joy in killing anything. I do enjoy being the woods though. Everything except a couple organs gets used. Very little goes to waste. What does get left behind is quickly taken by the other animals. I hunt because I feel wild game is a healthier alternative to store bought meat. I buy eggs from a local farm because the chickens are free range. I am not a fan of some types of farming. Factory farms are an awful thing. Giant chicken house are deplorable. I detest veal farming. I decided long ago I would rather starve than eat veal. Wild game is a way for me to provide my family with meat that isn’t loaded with hormones and other chemicals.

No because the method used is designed to eliminate pain or reduce it to an absolute minimum. There are government controls on that. Shooting arrows at an animal will inevitably cause some pain and don’t tell me it does not.

No. What I was trying to say was I feel a wild animal has a much better quality of life than that of an animal raised on a farm. That doesn’t apply to all cases. I have seen some farms where the animals are taken care of very well.

Wrong, Ben. For humans, it is all about how you combine non-animal foods to result in the protein that provides all the essential amino acids for the human species. One of my favorite cookbooks and teachings was from Francis Moore Lappe. Complimentary proteins(combined amino acids) was an education that I learned from her. “Diet for a Small Planet,” is/was the book that changed my outlook–on life.

I’m trying to keep an open mind here, Ben. Am I hearing you correctly? Your animal was given a long and good life. You loved it as an animal lover, and then, knowing this all along, you quickly ended his/her life in the most humane manner that you could . Is this what you are saying? I am trying to comprehend this. My mind has a difficult time wrapping around the kill that was inevitable in your mind.

You are correct in that most humans buy meat at the grocery, not giving much if any thought to what that poor animal endured. This actually is extremely selfish.

Wait a second. I thought you meant that this animal was under your care, until you decided to kill it in the most humane fashion possible. Am I mistaken, in thinking this? Did you adopt it and look after it, making sure that no harm came his/her way? That was my interpretation of what you said…

What, Ben furthers your perspective on thinking that these animals in the wild, have a better chance of humane treatment than those who are held in a loving environment? The humans, as you know, keep predatory animals at bay? Why do You not see this?

Okay. I was once held captive, by a maternal Bobcat; no moon, complete blackness… She grrrwld at me. (She had kits, behind her, that I could not see.) I quickly took the truck to the front screen door, to let my daughter out, and tell her to keep the door shut. I went back, and parked the GMC truck, nxt to the gravel. I quietly exited the truck, wondering where the female was… She had left me, unharmed, knowing that I did not intend to harm her. This was down in Arkansas, bordering the Mark Twain Forest. She literally scared me, Ben. But then, a thought crossed my mind, and I knew that she understood. I would not harm her; she, would not harm me. We understood each other.

You don’t have to hunt wild animals in order to eat meat. Shooting a wild animal will cause pain. Every time.

If you want to be a carnivore eat animals that were killed under controlled conditions that are as humane as possible not by bow and arrow or rifle bullet in a forest when you will inevitably injure the animal.

We have moved on from hunting for food or are you still living in the 19th century?

What controlled situations are used that have less chance of causing pain? I have never injured an animal in my life. All animals that I harvest expire in seconds. Its why I like bow hunting. I can tell by the body language of the animal it felt little pain. I have seen an animal suffering and in pain. I haven’t seen that hunting. I’m not going to lie. I know some animals do suffer. Not all hunters are ethical or responsible. Thats on us hunters as a group to police. I have dealt with irresponsible hunters in the past. The arrow is so fast and so sharp it all happens quick. I am sure a measure of pain is felt but I don’t think it suffers. It’s literally over in a couple seconds. It’s still hard to watch but it seems more humane than living on a farm and then going to a slaughterhouse.

You may be correct with that argument, but what you have raised here [besides hackles ;)], is this: why kill animals at all? Did you see my comment to you above, regarding killing other species? Isn’t it horrible enough that we kill other humans in the belief that “we are right, and they are wrong?” It is interesting to me that you chose to quote scripture from the King James bible, written so very long ago, when it was “the norm” to hunt for food. Think again, Ben. You can sustain your family on a garden, supplemented by quinoa, chickpeas, black beans, brown rice, and so on, without killing an animal that feels pain and suffers at your expense. Same goes for those of us who don’t hunt, Ben.

Here’s the deal. I take no joy in killing an animal. Anyone that does has a screw loose. I would much rather eat meat that came from a wild animal. I feel its healthier. If there was a way to take an animal in the wild without causing any pain I would be all for it. I would adopt that method immediately. I personally am not a fan of firearms season for deer. To many people taking long shots at running animals. Its the reason I prefer bow season. Less people in the woods = less pressure. That means the animals are in their natural habits. I never take a shot at a moving deer because it adds to much risk. I spend weeks in the summer getting ready for the season by clearing brush around stands so a twig does cause an arrow to get deflected and wound an animal. I also never take a shot over 25 yards. At that range I can put an arrow into the back of a previously shot arrow. (we call that Robin Hooding an arrow) I pass on way more deer than I take. If an angle is wrong or the animal is on alert I wont take the shot. It’s not worth the risk of wounding the deer. There are other rules I try to follow. I never take more than I will use. Never take a female deer thats still nursing young. Never take young animals. I try to take mature animals only. I know it sounds barbaric. In some ways it is. It’s impossible to explain how I can take an animal yet care so much about them. It’s just the way an ethical hunter is wired. I have been screaming to the division of wildlife for 3 years that the bag limits are way to high. I think to many animals are being taken right now. They give out things called damage permits to farmers that allow them in some cases to take over a 100 deer during the summer because they are eating the farmers crops. Most of these deer are dumped in piles in the woods. I think this practice needs to be eliminated. To me deer eating corn is the cost of doing business if your a farmer. I mean, how many business venture have no risk.
Listen its hard to explain. I don’t expect you to say your ok with it. Thats your right. Just as its my right to do something thats perfectly legal. There are tangible benefits to what a hunter does. We help keep animal populations at healthy levels. The Cuyahoga Valley National Forest is a perfect example. There is no hunting allowed in the park. Right now there are deer that are starving to death because there are more deer than land can support. Now if we still had large predators that would help with some of that. Unfortunately my ancestors eradicated most of them out of fear. Now its up to humans to keep populations at the right levels. Before this country was settled they estimate the deer population was about 1-2 deer per sq mile. Now its around 20 in most of the state. Thats a sustainable level. Most biologist want it under 10. The places that have problems have over a 100 deer per sq mile. I am really rambling right now. There is just so much info I could share.
My best friends wife is a vegetarian. Needless to say we have had some long discussions on this topic. We have found a common ground. I took her to see where animals are suffering and she knows how much I respect the animals. She also knows how seriously I take the responsibility of taking another living things life. Like I said its not something I take lightly. I feel remorse every time. I think thats healthy. I dont expect you to understand. I wouldnt if I was in your shoes. I promise you these animals ,in my case are not abused. Its all over very quickly. Its damn near instantaneous. If done properly with a bow the animal doesnt even run. The arrow is so sharp and so fast it passes through before they even have a chance to register what happened. Its almost like getting a shot. They usually take couple steps and fall over. I know its graphic and I apologize if it offends to hear that. But it has to be said. To do it right I have to practice. My worst nightmare is to wound an animal and not be able to recover it. It happens. I have seen it first hand and it pisses me off. If I ever caught someone it would probably get very ugly . I took a deer last year that someone had wounded and didnt take them time to bother finishing the kill. I hate that stuff like that happens. The majority though do it right.
As for the vegan thing. Its not really an option for me. I cant eat a veg only diet. I have Ulcerative Colitis and if I eat to many veggies it plays hell on my system. Also I have developed another because of UC that will require me to need a liver transplant. Lean meat is a life saver for me. When I cut out store bought meat my health got much better. I tried meat free for two months and ended up in the hospital.
I respect your position. I really do. I think animal abuse is an awful thing. I live in the heart of amish country. I see what look like puppy mills and I hate them. We need people like you to stand up for them. I just hope you can see some logic in my argument. I know you hate hunting and thats ok. I dont hold that against you. But hunting has been around forever and its probably not going anywhere anytime soon. But that doesnt mean we cant work together for the good of animals. I would love to see kill permits and unethical hunters gone. I would love to bear hunting done with dogs abolished. I think its one of the most disgusting forms of hunting out there. Well I better get to bed. I could go all night. I know this rambled on and I hope it makes some sense. On a side note. Thanks for taking the time to debate me in a friendlier manner.

Ben, my heart goes out to you. The fact that most of us? Human beings who think that we have a right to reach out to those who denigrate, abuse the feline domestic cat, let alone, the wild cat, who choose to hunt, as opposed to buying meat in the supermarket, we are all at fault. Am I wrong? including those who kill in the wild?

I read what you said. I feel badly for you–why can’t you do a vegetarian diet (eat eggs–those are good for you)? I believe, with all of my heart, that you would be a happier soul and male, if you gave up the bow, and arrow. 🙂

My friend, you did take the time to establish your well-validated point. We are all at fault, those of us who go to the grocery store to spend our money and buy packaged meat. It is wrong, even if it is 8x the cost of slaughtered meat.

There is an alternative. Don’t be fooled into eating animals that are inhumanely slaughtered.

Better yet, don’t prey upon another animal at all. Eat sensibly, as a vegetarian. Leave the meat to our beloved felines and canines, et. al. We, as humans, are beyond the need for meat in our diets.

I just wanted to add. You all have given me plenty to think about. While I can’t envision a time where I don’t hunt. I am going to be a more vocal advocate for doing it as ethically as possible. Thanks again.

I have hated hunting as well ever since I was a small child. This hatred started when I learned about the full horror. I was about 12 at the time and I couldn’t understand why an adult would cover a child in foxes blood in some sort of initiation ceremony. I saw pictures. I was horrified, I cried and cried. I have always hated any sort of animal abuse and cruelty especially hunting for sport. It should be banned because it is animal cruelty. No one has the right to take an animals life because it gives them a thrill. I hate it with all my heart 🙁

EFFECTS OF HUNTING IN INDIA :- People all over the world are fascinated with “Big Cats’,the tiger being one of the most majestic beasts. Have just returned from an incredible tiger Safari with “MUMBAI TRAVELLERS” tour group.We deserve a mention in the “LIMCA BOOK OF RECORDS” for not being able to spot a single tiger in three different safari rides in the two different “PARK ZONES(Kitauli and Magdha zones)”. Sadly we missed out on the “TALA ZONE”, the zone having the maximum number of tigers in Bandhavgarh as it is booked well in advance, also a privilege of “V.I.P” tourists.Spotted “TIGER PUG MARKS” and just before returning spotted a half-eaten cow in the village close to our resort, a tiger kill.Bizarre..Instead i became a good bird watcher and learnt about bird and here is a photo of the “SERPENT EAGLE” that i clicked on a digital camera. Our co-tour mates ,we were a total of 15 tourists,got better photos and an excellent safari with a beautiful hotel resort , the “Nature heritage resort” and excellent climate.We experienced everything good in our safari barring meeting the magnificent beast of the jungle. MY BLOG WOULD FOLLOW IN A FEW DAYS .Memories for a been here, seen that, done that but not seen “TIGER,TIGER”!Have to see a tiger in my life-time so the tiger spotting mystery continues.
Bandhavgarh in India was the “Tiger hunting groung’ of the Maharajahs of Rewa and the place where the first “WHITE TIGER” was captured in 1951. Later named “MOHAN” this tiger was the sire of all the white tiger population in zoo’s across the world.Today Bandhavgarh in india has the largest tiger population but most are concentrated in just one zone “TALA ZONE” and hence a rush of “V.I.P” tourists and long queues to visit this particular zone.Hope the tigers increase in numbers in other zones as well and a healthy tiger population is re-introduced into this historical tiger national park.

Thanks for this report Rudolph. I have heard about the difficulty of seeing tigers in reserves before. They seem to be getting rarer and rarer. In one reserve it was discovered there were no tigers left. They had all been poached. I would love to go on one of these safaris. Sounds fascinating.

The British were the main culprits in destroying the tiger through hunting 100 years ago. The attitude about hunting was different then of course but the tiger population was severely affected by hunting in the days of the Raj in India.

I look forward to your report. If you email me some pictures I will publish them as usual. If you email me the photo of the SERPENT EAGLE I’ll add it to your comment.

I am just a simple soul who doesn’t dress comments up in fancy words or search for statistics which can’t be relied on anyway, as people can so easily distort them in their eagerness to try to convince others they are right.
But I do know hunting animals for fun is wrong and my own opinion is that breeding animals and birds only to be killed for food is wrong too. Food animals DO suffer, they all don’t live happy lives in fields and as I already said, some suffer even more than necessary because the people doing the job of killing them enjoy torturing them before they die. Which is why we are fighting for CCTV in ALL slaughterhouses. But I also know that at present veggies are in the minority and there is no point preaching to those who think they can’t live without eating flesh or those who don’t care that animals and birds suffer so as to satisfy their taste buds.
Apparently all the grain grown to feed animals to be killed to feed human non veggies, would be enough to feed ALL the people of the world including the children who starve to death in some countries.
BTW Marc I thought HUMANE sprung from the word HUMAN, I think humanity was meant to move on, but sadly it hasn’t moved very far!

What you say rings so true, Ruth. I do eat chickens, beef, now and then. It is very expensive to buy meat that is not slaughtered in the convenient way. I don’t even like to talk about it. Was a vegetarian for decades. I most likely going back to my old lifestyle. Even Salmon has been a problem for me. Cage-free/Free Range eggs are probably the only animal product in my future, just to continue to support it (which I feel is very important!).

I’m no saint Caroline and used to eat meat, poultry and fish too until it came to me what a hypocrite I felt saying I love animals yet eating them. Working as vet nurse in a mixed practice I saw some of the horrors of farming animals and birds for food.
Some images never leave your mind do they! My visit to a slaughterhouse with the duty vet who was called out for some reason, remains in mine!
We are lucky as we have a neighbour with rescue battery hens so have free range eggs, they cost so much more in shops.

Ruth, thanks for responding. Do you have a website, besides this one, that you might mention for our benefit? I understand that you have given your voice, talents and energy to promote the welfare of cats, as well as all animals. I appreciate anything, everything, that you post here. Sorry that I left this so late in the day.

Hi Caroline, no I don’t have a website, we used to have one for anti declawing which had a lot of members at one time but the host started charging for it so we closed it. Any spare money we have mostly goes to help local cat charities.
Michael kindly set up a PoC blog but no one much visited. There are other cat websites but there is no way any of them could be better than PoC for information and caring about cats, so I enjoy posting articles and posters and comments on here.
I started ‘The International Coalition Against Declawing’ group on facebook which has lots of members and I can post links to anti declaw articles here on PoC so they are shared far and wide.

I am working on an idea to make regulars “members” or “shareholders” of PoC so in the very long term, whatever, happens to me PoC will go on. Also, for shareholders to share in the income and to give it away to charities of their choice. I am working on this idea.

This means regulars can have a platform at PoC that is formally established. It would make the site a “community website” owned by cat lovers. That appeals to me.

What a lovely idea Michael, I hope you (and I) are around for a long time yet but you leaving PoC as a legacy for others is a wonderful and generous act which only a true cat lover would think of doing.
Your web site is full of valuable information on all aspects of cat care and is hugely educational and it would be awful if ever it was all lost.
I would be proud to become a lifelong member 🙂

Count me in! I would be more than happy to contribute financially to your excellent idea. And, no, don’t you even think about putting on those catwings! Your site is so full of love for cats and animal welfare. I can’t imagine what the world wide web would be without it.

I know I don’t always get to comment on everything and I must miss some good comments as they disappear down the page but I do try to catch up when I get the time.
I think it’s a great idea to have membership of PoC 🙂