Well, my friend, I recommend building a time machine, which will allow you to travel back to the dark ages. I prefer the 21st century. And most smart Muslim women do so too.

Funnily enough the Prophet of God Muhammad (pbuh) prophecied about this where men will listen to women who will rule them and control them.

You are right when you say smart Msulim women prefer the 21st century as many millions of Muslimah's are turning away from Islam and following the ways of the kufr. They are so in love with the Western culture and what this dunya has to offer them. This has also been prophecied.

If men being men and women being women and they live the way God intended them to be then yes a return to the dark ages is preferable than living against the commandment of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. You have no idea how Muslims should live and be pleasing to Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

Funnily enough the Prophet of God Muhammad (pbuh) prophecied about this where men will listen to women who will rule them and control them.

You are right when you say smart Msulim women prefer the 21st century as many millions of Muslimah's are turning away from Islam and following the ways of the kufr. They are so in love with the Western culture and what this dunya has to offer them. This has also been prophecied.

If men being men and women being women and they live the way God intended them to be then yes a return to the dark ages is preferable than living against the commandment of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. You have no idea how Muslims should live and be pleasing to Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

I just dont understand the context of this post. Hope am wrong ... if you are saying that a working woman has left islam, or she is following the western culture, could you please explain how.

>>You are right when you say smart Msulim women prefer the 21st century as many millions of Muslimah's are turning away from Islam and following the ways of the kufr.<<

Ways of the kufr? the point of difference between the two of you was - either to start a family or continue to keep a career.

Firstly I dont understand how its not possible for a woman to do both at the same time. And, if she is doing either of the two, how is that kufr - is it not going a bit overboard with the whole concept?

>>If men being men and women being women and they live the way God intended them to be then yes a return to the dark ages is preferable than living against the commandment of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. You have no idea how Muslims should live and be pleasing to Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.<<

In Islam a woman is allowed to earn, keep and spend her money whichever way she likes. This means she is allowed to persue a career, have a business,go for higher studies and cultivate her individuality as she pleases, as long as she is within the bounds of the sharia.

Being a woman does not mean she must sit at home and make babies only!!

Kadijah radiallahu anha was a wealthy business woman who proposed our holy prophet when he (sallallahu alaihi wassallam) was an employee in her business! Were gender roles swithched in their scenario??

"Funnily enough the Prophet of God Muhammad (pbuh) prophecied about this where men will listen to women who will rule them and control them".

Where was this stated at?

What problem do you have with husbands consulting and talking to their wives about things?
What problems do you have with men seeking advice from their wives? How does that make him less than a man?
Why the assumption that just because a man is seeking advice from his wife that his wife is controlling him?
What problems do you have with women who have opinions and ideas about things?

I just dont understand the context of this post. Hope am wrong ... if you are saying that a working woman has left islam, or she is following the western culture, could you please explain how.

First of all we are careering off course from the original thread.

Secondly, I posted something about career women and Matt Browne reckons that people who believe like that should go back to the Middle Ages.

Of course a working woman has not left Islam, that is so silly. By following the Western culture I mean that those Muslimah's who forsake their daily prayers and date and go to night clubs etc etc etc

Ways of the kufr? the point of difference between the two of you was - either to start a family or continue to keep a career.

Firstly I dont understand how its not possible for a woman to do both at the same time. And, if she is doing either of the two, how is that kufr - is it not going a bit overboard with the whole concept?

Same example as above following their peers in the West.

In Islam a woman is allowed to earn, keep and spend her money whichever way she likes. This means she is allowed to persue a career, have a business,go for higher studies and cultivate her individuality as she pleases, as long as she is within the bounds of the sharia.

Being a woman does not mean she must sit at home and make babies only!!

Of course I agree with everything you say. What I meant was those men who let their wives be the 'man of the house'. They follow their wives direction rathan than taking control as head of the household.

Kadijah radiallahu anha was a wealthy business woman who proposed our holy prophet when he (sallallahu alaihi wassallam) was an employee in her business! Were gender roles swithched in their scenario??

No Khadijah (RA) didn't dominate her husband, she bahaved as a wife should by being a faithful and devoted wife.

"Funnily enough the Prophet of God Muhammad (pbuh) prophecied about this where men will listen to women who will rule them and control them".

Where was this stated at?

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet () cursed women who imitate men and men who imitate women.

Ibn 'Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) said:

The Prophet () said, "O women folk! You should give charity and be diligent in seeking Allah's forgiveness because I have seen (i.e., on the Night of the Ascension to the highest heavens) that dwellers of the Hell are women." A woman amongst them said: "Why is it that the majority of the dwellers of Hell are women?" The Prophet () replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. In spite of your lacking in wisdom and failing in religion, you are depriving the wisest of men of their intelligence." Upon this the woman asked: "What is the deficiency in our wisdom and in our religion?" He () replied, "Your lack of wisdom can be well judged from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to that one man. You do not offer Salat (prayer) for some days and you do not fast (the whole of) Ramadan sometimes, it is a deficiency in religion."

Musllim

: Book 20, Hadith 11

Arabic/English book reference

: Book 20, Hadith 1879

Abu Hurairah narrated that the Messenger of Allah(s.a.w) said:

"When your leaders are the best of you, the richest are the most generous among you, and your affairs are consulted among you, then the surface of the earth is better for you than its belly. And when your leaders are the worst of you, the richest are the stingiest among you, and your affairs are referred to your women, then the belly of the earth is better for you than its surface."

English reference

: Vol. 4, Book 7, Hadith 2266

Arabic reference

: Book 29, Hadith 2435

All I'm saying here is that women should know their place which is beside their husbands obeying and supporting.

What problem do you have with husbands consulting and talking to their wives about things?

Absolutely nothing. As long as she doesn't control her husband.

What problems do you have with men seeking advice from their wives? How does that make him less than a man?

Again nothing. As long as he doesn't become a slave to the wife.

Why the assumption that just because a man is seeking advice from his wife that his wife is controlling him?

I'm not assuming anything. A woman should know her place.

What problems do you have with women who have opinions and ideas about things?

What I meant was those men who let their wives be the 'man of the house'. They follow their wives direction rathan than taking control as head of the household.

Abu Loren, Can u please clarify your statement?

What is wrong with men following their wives direction if it is correct, accurate and from an Islamic point of view?

Did it ever occur that maybe the reason why men allow their wives to be in so-call control of certain things is because their wives are better than themselves in certain things?

Hakeema

Yes it is against Islamic principles for a women to control the household. The man or the husband is the head of the household and all decisions should be taken by him alone, the wife should obey and follow his decisions. The reverse of this is not permitted in Islam.

I guess you were provoked by the time machine suggestion and perhaps made an overgenralized comment against every 21st century career woman - that was what worried me.

I agreed with your original suggestion, and also agree with your clarifications.

As for your comment on the man should make all decisions in the household - you've got to admit some men do not have the temperament to do this, for whatever reason - if their wives do not step in there will be more chaos in the family unit than otherwise.

Women by nature want to be lead, cared for and protected by someone stronger. But there are men out there who cannot fulfil this role completely. It becomes necessary in such circumstances for the wife to take a stronger stance in decision making otherwise outsiders start controlling their family unit.

We have deviated far from the original topic, but it was important to know what was implied in your post.

Sis Nausheen,i read this thread very first day you posted and soon a hadith flashed my mind. It was shared by a member here. Would like to share it again

Imaam al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported in his Saheeh that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) saying: ‘Souls are like conscripted soldiers; those whom they recognize, they get along with, and those whom they do not recognize, they will not get along with.’” (Saheeh al-Bukhaari, Kitaab Ahaadeeth al-Anbiyaa’, Baab al-Arwaah junood mujannadah).

Sorry i could not login again then, but today i found this thread active :)

What do you say about this hadith ?

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

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