Hmm, I think book I is where they changed the most. Radically shortening the part in the Shire, leaving out Tom Bombadil completely etc.. If you are talking about book I and not the Fellowship Of The Ring (which is book I + II), you are really basing your assessment on the part that is the least an adaption. But that doesn't invalidate your point.

I'm currently close to finishing The Two Towers (Cirith Ungol anyone?) and remembering all the negative points made in the Hobbit or LotR thread I really don't get what's the problem. I don't feel that most of the flaws mentioned are really flaws but whatever... by the way; is it just me or did a lot of people finally start reading the trilogy after we had those threads? (I didn't though, I started shortly before)

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Metantoine wrote:

If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?

CorpseFister wrote:

Personally, I prefer to know nothing of the esoteric hierarchy of MA and the profane rituals required to attain rank.

I've been wanting to re-read the trilogy, but - given that I first read it when I was 12 and it was one of those works that made a massive impression on me, a sentimental favourite - I don't want to destroy my memories... I may be brave enough eventually.

jute wrote:

the overwhelming feeling I get from his writing is the poignant sadness of mortality and social isolation in a capitalist system that actively strips any non-fiscal value from human relations. His most recent novel, The Map & the Territory, seems like a deliberate attempt to respond to long-standing criticisms of his work (constant sex, shock value, etc.) and is an interesting read.

Well said. I've been meaning to read his latest one, though I was put off a bit by various reviews that claimed he'd lost his touch and had resorted to the kind of self-referential exercise that several authors of his ilk had recently engaged in; of course, I don't put too much trust in reviews, anyway, but this makes me think I should definitely give it a shot.

Garchomp4ever wrote:

I know this may seem extremely edgy and 2grimdark4u, but anyone know any good "leftist" literature? Or maybe where to start with Nietzsche?

I have never heard the expression "2grimdark4u" and feel vaguely grateful that I have not. Anyway. What do you mean by 'leftist' literature? Politics, economics, philosophy, fiction...? Classic texts or recent explorations? Which left? Sorry; I'm marking philosophy exams, it's my pedantic day.

Hmm, I think book I is where they changed the most. Radically shortening the part in the Shire, leaving out Tom Bombadil completely etc.. If you are talking about book I and not the Fellowship Of The Ring (which is book I + II), you are really basing your assessment on the part that is the least an adaption. But that doesn't invalidate your point.

I'm currently close to finishing The Two Towers (Cirith Ungol anyone?) and remembering all the negative points made in the Hobbit or LotR thread I really don't get what's the problem. I don't feel that most of the flaws mentioned are really flaws but whatever... by the way; is it just me or did a lot of people finally start reading the trilogy after we had those threads? (I didn't though, I started shortly before)

I have to admit i am starting to like the lord of the rings finally.After the big council meeting thing it started to get good.I am now quarter of the way through The Two Towers.I have to agree the flaws mentioned in "the other thread" that you don't agree with "Inhumanist", are mostly true,but we wont get into that.I only started reading the book because i am the only one i know who hasn't seen the movie,and i started reading the book before the LOTR thread i started,so i'm cool too

I have never heard the expression "2grimdark4u" and feel vaguely grateful that I have not. Anyway. What do you mean by 'leftist' literature? Politics, economics, philosophy, fiction...? Classic texts or recent explorations? Which left? Sorry; I'm marking philosophy exams, it's my pedantic day.

Whoops, meant more of the stuff with religion/fiction or whatever, not really sure of any examples "order of the left hand path" or whatever the hell it's called. Any of that shit pseudo-intellectuals read

Im thinking of starting the Malazan series too, but Ill probably wait till after A Memory of Light comes out to finish off WoT before i get into it since I like to read a series uninterrupted if its possible. Also thinking of getting The Way of Kings as ive heard good things about it and i do like Sanderson's work in the latest WoT books. Anyone else here fans of it?

Im thinking of starting the Malazan series too, but Ill probably wait till after A Memory of Light comes out to finish off WoT before i get into it since I like to read a series uninterrupted if its possible. Also thinking of getting The Way of Kings as ive heard good things about it and i do like Sanderson's work in the latest WoT books. Anyone else here fans of it?

Yep. Read The Way of Kings and liked it, but something which may annoy you is that it's pretty obviously mostly setup for the rest of the planned ten-book series. I got frustrated at the slow pace and seemingly meaningless references at times, especially because it's so long, but that's what Brandon Sanderson excels at. I've never really liked "The Brandon Avalanche" (fan term for which he introduces mysteries at a slow pace over the course of a book, then crams all the resolutions into the last 100 pages), but I've grown to it. If you want an introduction to Sanderson's work on his own, though, I'd recommend that you get Elantris first. It's a bit tighter and shorter, plays out on a more manageable scale, and basically stands alone, although there's meant to be a sequel. For all I liked The Way of Kings, I felt it got kind of bloated at times, and the ten-book thing makes me worry that Sanderson's over-stretching himself...

Im thinking of starting the Malazan series too, but Ill probably wait till after A Memory of Light comes out to finish off WoT before i get into it since I like to read a series uninterrupted if its possible. Also thinking of getting The Way of Kings as ive heard good things about it and i do like Sanderson's work in the latest WoT books. Anyone else here fans of it?

Id start the malazan series as it is long and it is complete, no waiting for the next book to come out every few years. but again i cannot sing enough praise for the dark fantasy that makes up the malazan world and series

"The Way of Kings" is one of the greatest fantasy books I've ever read. Haven't liked anything else of Sanderson's too much, but that book is just fantastic. Engaging characters, intriguing plot, excellent style...let's just say I'm eagerly anticipating the sequel. Blows WoT out of the water (at least anything past the first two).

I finished reading Catch-22 and Fahrenheit 451. Catch-22 had some truly hilarious parts such as the bit about the man who sees everything in two and the M&M enterprises, despite it being a rather dark-themed book. It had great character depictions and not single character I couldn't stand. As for cons, the plot could've been more coherent. The lack of chronological structure never got on my nerves but after the reading I was thinking of how it could be improved. Anyhow, minor inconvenience. It wasn't as dark as Fahrenheit. I just wish Beatty had more spotlight in it, I found him the most interesting character of them all. I'm off to tackle Hesse's Glass Bead Game now.

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NecroFile wrote:

Lars Ulrich used to post under the name Anal_Gladiator but then he got banned. Dude, if you break the rules you get kicked off the forum. We don't care how many Grammies you have.

Well, just finished the first three books of the WH40k Horus Heresy series. Like most fantasy/sci-fi, it's by nature not an incredibly literary story, but my goodness are they excellent palate cleansers after reading academia all the time. Strong characters, excellent pacing, and really awesome battles and inventive enemies. Hell, some of these authors do an amazing job humanizing the Space Marines (hard to do given their staunch nature!) and the pre-fall nature of the story really gets you into the universe. The primarchs are REALLY AWESOME.

Nerd-boner. I still love 40k to this day, although I never, ever play anymore.

_________________"when out of men's hearts all hate has gone - it's better to die than forever live on"

I've only read Prospero Burns. I really liked it. Apparently it's a bit different because the main character isn't astartes and goes deeper into the inner workings of the Space Wolves. I bought the new one Fear to Tread awhile ago, but who knows when I'll get to it.

Reading a book by Ann Wroe on Pontious Pilate. Very interesting stuff. Very well written. Hard to believe such an engrossing piece of literature could be written about someone whose only physical proof of existence is the Pilate stone and three coins bearing his visage.

Honestly, the Horus Heresy series (I'd just start from Horus Rising and move on, actually). It's a gripping tale, and while the characters won't make you giddy like they do with veterans of the series (reading about the Primarchs after playing for so many years was a joyous experience) the stories are incredibly well-structured and filled with dozens of memorable moments and solid dialogue.

If you want something just straight action and ass-kicking, with the occasional literary moments; go for the Grey Knight series or the Salamander triology.

I'm reading the Heresy a bit out of order. I have the first three done, but also A Thousand Sons and I'm about 3/4ths the way through Prospero Burns and I gotta say, I really like it so far. Not on the same level as A Thousand Sons (the human characters were a lot better too, methinks, and the Astartes were just awesome) and it tries a teensy bit too hard to make the Sons unlikable, but there's a lot of great stuff. I love the primal tactics of the Wolves and I'm a sucker for their background - it's just SO METAL.

_________________"when out of men's hearts all hate has gone - it's better to die than forever live on"

It's a toss up for me....I love Abnett, especially for his Eisenhower works....but McNeil is also really incredible too. The only one whose popularity confuses me is Swallow...he's a mediocre writer at best, so I guess I'll chalk it up to his subject matter.

_________________"when out of men's hearts all hate has gone - it's better to die than forever live on"

I love the WH40k setting. Read some Space Wolves novels long, looong ago, just plain, easily digestible fun from what I remember. I'll probably check out some books from the Horus Heresy series soon-ish since I've always wanted to read more about that part of Imperium history.

Walter M. Miller Jr. - A Canticle for LeibowitzAlright, so this was pretty interesting. It took me a bit longer to finish than expected, but that wasn't the novel's fault. As said before, expertly written and with a nicely fleshed out, compelling setting, even though it's a rather short book, all in all. Unashamed humour, politicking, profound philosophical issues dealing with the value of history, the nature of man and the long-term survival of civilisation. All packaged in the obvious theological twist and coming with a good dose of (not always translated) Latin. I think the only thing I didn't like about it was the euthanasia part in the third chapter. I am not sure if I'm interpreting the intended message correctly here, but I found that section distasteful and patronising.

Now reading:Nick Harkaway - The Gone-Away WorldThis has been collecting dust on my shelf for too long. I gave it another try yesterday evening and like it so far. The writing is in-your-face and gratuitously convoluted at first and may try a tiny bit too hard to be witty/funny, but I got used to it and it's -if not totally hilarious- good for the occasional chuckle so far. The main concept behind the plot doesn't seem to be that original when it comes down to it (your thoughts can come true!!), but I'm interested in seeing how it develops in relation to the established world and the reason/explanation for it is kind of cool.

...each of which I can recommend to anyone who likes his mind getting blown by hard (or sometimes not-so-hard) science fiction darlings such as artificial intelligence, the nature of consciousness, technological singularities, the many-worlds theory and general disturbing strangeness/thought experiments. Not perfect storytelling every time, but I'm just a sucker for the concepts involved.

Yeah, I'd like to read more of his stuff for sure. I plan on picking up Does It Matter? next. The Wisdom of Insecurity basically reads like a less scholarly 'The Undiscovered Self', which was pretty straightforward already.

"The Way of Kings" is one of the greatest fantasy books I've ever read. Haven't liked anything else of Sanderson's too much, but that book is just fantastic. Engaging characters, intriguing plot, excellent style...let's just say I'm eagerly anticipating the sequel. Blows WoT out of the water (at least anything past the first two).

Apart from a somewhat slow start, I have heard nothing but the greatest praise for this book. I purchased it a few months back, but I'm trying to get through a few shorter reads before I commit to 1,200+ pages.

_________________It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. Then it's just games.

So, ordered a copy of "120 Days of Sodom" by The Marquis du Sade... I will almost certainly regret doing so. So far, it reads a bit like fan-fiction crossed with creepypasta and perverse death-metal lyrics.

It's just....not good. It's not really shocking, not really worth reading. Just gross. Without any real philosophical value. Philosophy of the Bedroom at least has some sort of semblance of philosophical dictum. After reading two biographies, and his major works, I have determined that, for the most part, Sade is a worthless thinker.

_________________"when out of men's hearts all hate has gone - it's better to die than forever live on"

It's just....not good. It's not really shocking, not really worth reading. Just gross. Without any real philosophical value. Philosophy of the Bedroom at least has some sort of semblance of philosophical dictum. After reading two biographies, and his major works, I have determined that, for the most part, Sade is a worthless thinker.

Yeah, I'd have to agree; I was pretty disappointed. I'd been reading a really interesting chapter comparing Kant, Lacan and de Sade on the self, which made '120 Days' out to be a profound philosophical exploration of the nature of the self through sexuality so, given my interest in BDSM, I thought it'd be an enjoyable read for me... Instead, it just produced this rather odd mixture of disgust and utter, utter boredom; it's a chore to get through. I wouldn't bother. On the note of disappointing classics:

Nahsil wrote:

And maybe after all that I can finally read Candide.

Did anyone else find this really, really disappointing? Maybe it was the translation I read - my French is atrocious, so I had to read it in English - but I honestly didn't find it in any way entertaining or thought-provoking.

ye ah, it's been a while since I read Candide, but I think going in expecting something profound (and profoundly useful) in our modern times is a bit of a mistake. Like with Gulliver's Travels (although maybe moreso actually as the satire in that book still seems pretty effective in many ways), I am not sure that one can really find startling revelations about humanity in its pages, and yet both books are hugely fun reads in their way. I thought Candide was basically a picaresque adventure...

_________________Hush! and harkTo the sorrowful cryOf the wind in the dark.Hush and hark, without murmur or sigh,To shoon that tread the lost aeons:To the sound that bids you to die.

Read two books lately. The first one was Requiem by Francis Itani. Great book. It deals with a Japanese guy named Bin who was a B.C. resident on a coastal village during WWII and taken with his family to the internment camps. This was really well written, the story line was great. I read another book about Japanese people in the (somewhat) older days in B.C. (the Jade Peony by Wayson Choy) and it was really good, too. Anyway, Requiem was one of those books that really resonated with me and made me think and whatnot.

The other one was And So it Goes by George Walker. This is more of a play actually. About a young woman who suffers from schizophrenia and gets really fucked up with prostitution and crack and whatnot. I won't give away the ending on the off chance that someone actually reads/sees this, but things get really (and I mean really) fucked up for her parents. No happy ending either, just misery and dysfunction. An interesting quick read, I like how it isn't sugarcoated with a nice ending. Sometimes things really don't get better.

Read Juan Marasco's translation of the Upanishads. Mildly life changing, as it were. Robert Anton Wilson's Cosmic Trigger II was the perfect follow-up to remind myself not to let myself become to hypnotized by my current infatuation with Indian spirituality. It's all been a nice change of pace from my mild lapsed Catholic phase of interests.

Yeah, I'd have to agree; I was pretty disappointed. I'd been reading a really interesting chapter comparing Kant, Lacan and de Sade on the self, which made '120 Days' out to be a profound philosophical exploration of the nature of the self through sexuality[...]

My reasoning was a little less intellectual, in that it was "Hurr...That sounds like the Venom song..."

But yeah, I've read a bit of it now, and it's not really making my life any different, other than maybe making a good death-metal concept album someday.

Also reading Russell's "Problems with Philosophy", which approaches what I can only describe "a bit of everything" in Philosophy - I'm enjoying the fact that I've learned enough about philosophy in uni to actually get most of it now, which I certainly didn't when I tried to read it at 16.

ye ah, it's been a while since I read Candide, but I think going in expecting something profound (and profoundly useful) in our modern times is a bit of a mistake. Like with Gulliver's Travels (although maybe moreso actually as the satire in that book still seems pretty effective in many ways), I am not sure that one can really find startling revelations about humanity in its pages, and yet both books are hugely fun reads in their way. I thought Candide was basically a picaresque adventure...

Certainly; although I didn't find Candide to be a lot of fun... maybe I just don't have the right sense of humour. Gulliver I do love, though; I grew up with the stories, and was pleasantly surprised when I started reading the original as a teen and realised they were meant to be satirical.

Ancient_Sorrow wrote:

[120 Days of Sodom is] not really making my life any different

You'd hope it wouldn't...

Anyway, I had a similar experience with reading Russell's problems; it was one of the first philosophy books I read in my early teens, and, while I found it intriguing, most of it went far over my head. Going back to it now, though, I have to say that I really like his style, yet disagree with quite a bit of what he says - or, rather, with the way in which he presents controversial theories (like sense-data theory) as generally accepted views; even back in the time of its first being published, there was not that much consensus about some of these things. Still, it's a fantastic read.

I'm more than halfway through Horus Rising by Dan Abnett now and wow, this has been a very positive surprise. Despite the good things I read in this thread about it, I wasn't expecting such a great mix of well-structured storytelling, solid dialogue, action and that typical 40k feel. As a fan of the setting it's indeed very rewarding to read about that infamous chapter of the Imperium and witness walking-talking primarchs. Some very interesting insights in the history and beliefs of the Imperium and the Astartes to be found too. Abnett's style is surprisingly capable in wrapping this all up in readable form. Quite vivid and fluid, the man knows his craft.

This is more than just an easily digestible distraction from more "heavy" books. Awesome novel.

I'm more than halfway through Horus Rising by Dan Abnett now and wow, this has been a very positive surprise. Despite the good things I read in this thread about it, I wasn't expecting such a great mix of well-structured storytelling, solid dialogue, action and that typical 40k feel. As a fan of the setting it's indeed very rewarding to read about that infamous chapter of the Imperium and witness walking-talking primarchs. Some very interesting insights in the history and beliefs of the Imperium and the Astartes to be found too. Abnett's style is surprisingly capable in wrapping this all up in readable form. Quite vivid and fluid, the man knows his craft.

This is more than just an easily digestible distraction from more "heavy" books. Awesome novel.

I'm in between books. I think this is an exciting time for readers. You aren't committed to anything, and you've got a stack of things you've been meaning to read. I know we all have that. I love this time really. They are seldom, and only occasionally prolonged. I'll sample text at this time. Meditations on the Tarot: A Journey into Christian Hermeticism reads quite easily and was very illuminating. I'll get to it soon, but it is hefty and I'm not sure I can commit myself to that branch of study yet. I should perhaps at least finish the Bible first.

I've also sampled the first half of Clive Barker's 'The Inhuman Condition', and I really enjoy it. I'll probably go all the way with that one because Barker's writing always snares me. His imagination is astounding, and he is quite funny to boot.

I just finished Flight of the Eisenstein and it was good, if not a retelling of many events, and Swallow, in spite of being one of the weaker writers on the docket, managed to make a handful of very wonderful characters; Garro was very enjoyable to get into. But, goddamn, Galaxy in Flames was just this sprawling epic, and Counter really knows how to write battle scenes....plus the ending made me swell with an odd sense of romantic militarism.

_________________"when out of men's hearts all hate has gone - it's better to die than forever live on"