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Well folks... I have bad news.... Rook will not be at the show. :'( Had to leave her behind... had to do emergency rear drums and new drums were 2 days out and the old drum was simply too far gone... wonder if I could apply my pre-reg fee to camping since I wont have a car? maybe? Anyway I'll be riding with Twitch so I'll see you there!

My wife has been bugging me to find out the same question. I shot off an email to the WCSS 'general info' email I'll post any response I get.

my manimals.

Email I got back from WCSS

"Dogs are more or less OK to bring to the show. Please make sure that the dogs are comfortable around a lot of people, and a lot of running cars (remember on Saturday we will have mudpit going AND gokarts). If you feel your dogs will be good in that situation, by all means bring them along."

I would not bring my dog again. My rather well behaved Golden Retriever turned crazy at the show years ago. Normally fine in crowds, dog park, on or off leash but not at the show. Find a friend to watch if you can.

My wife has been bugging me to find out the same question. I shot off an email to the WCSS 'general info' email I'll post any response I get.

my manimals.

Email I got back from WCSS

"Dogs are more or less OK to bring to the show. Please make sure that the dogs are comfortable around a lot of people, and a lot of running cars (remember on Saturday we will have mudpit going AND gokarts). If you feel your dogs will be good in that situation, by all means bring them along."

Tosh, I met your dogs at the show...very well behaved. The one on the right really caught my attention, looked to be 3 different breeds?His attention and focus were amazing, he would look at you and I could swear he was trying to tell me something :-p

So i have one complaint why were the old schools segregated from the new schools. I am a show car person through and through but being located on another part on a fence after i drove 260 miles to go to a show was pretty messed up. Call me crazy i mean most of the time when i drive up to a show im parked next to s13s and r34s and thet dont have a problem with my crazy creations lol my 2 cents

Thanks for all the hard work and no hard feelings i loved the show but how would anyone see crazy creations like daves coupe or my wagon with the rest of the modified subies

So i have one complaint why were the old schools segregated from the new schools. I am a show car person through and through but being located on another part on a fence after i drove 260 miles to go to a show was pretty messed up. Call me crazy i mean most of the time when i drive up to a show im parked next to s13s and r34s and thet dont have a problem with my crazy creations lol my 2 cents

Thanks for all the hard work and no hard feelings i loved the show but how would anyone see crazy creations like daves coupe or my wagon with the rest of the modified subies

it was a space issue or so I heard as to why the older ones were on the other side of the fence. (there are more people that I talked to that were angry about this than mentioned in this thread) I honestly think they tried to have the gens together but it filled up so fast and there was so limited space that it ended up like it did.

If any of the organizers do read this thread my one issue: Not enough trash cans (in the show area and stands)

One thing that I really think was sad was the lack of spirit for the XV uncovering. Look Subaru paid to have the show there and then brought a car that has not been shown to the public in the PNW and they could barely get anyone to clap for the uncovering. let me tell you Subaru doesn't do stuff like that here on the east coast. Consider yourselves lucky that they sponsor stuff like that for you. I'm not sure I could get Subaru to give me a middle finger here. I really hope a bridge didn't get burned there.

I've debated about posting about this and a few other things that bothered me, this will probably rustle some jimmies. I know the organizers work hard and do everything they can to make this a great show and cant always make everyone happy and I'm usually pleased with the entire show. But not this time. They said there would be plenty of room for everything, but there wasnt. The camping area was almost full Fri night and by Sat there wasnt any area that was a "quiet area" any longer. The Show & Shine area was not thought out very well at all. When I saw we were being put on the other side of the fence away from all the other cars I almost pulled out. I got sandwiched in and could barely open my doors to detail my car. I dont think I even saw any of my New Gen buddies come into the Old Gen group to look at the cars.

Old Gen Show & Shine area...

New Gen Show & Shine area...

You make the decision.

I never even knew they were unveiling the XV there and didnt know until the awards ceremony and by then it was too late. I didnt get a chance to browse any of the rest of the show because I waited over 2hrs to get my car judged.What I did enjoy, and at every show in the past, was meeting old friends and making new ones. And yes, I'm looking forward to next year.

If you want more room, start making up the judging team.All of you want to show but some of you have been showing the same car forever.:-pToatally valid complaints, but no action behind them.I ************in love you guys but some of the older(as in time known) should step up .Damnit.

As far as the show goes I think that it went well.No true "fight" situations really really really ************in pleased me.I hope that everyone enjoye3d themselves.It was a good mud pit for sure.Enjoyed seein everyone !cheers

I've debated about posting about this and a few other things that bothered me, this will probably rustle some jimmies. I know the organizers work hard and do everything they can to make this a great show and cant always make everyone happy and I'm usually pleased with the entire show. But not this time. They said there would be plenty of room for everything, but there wasnt. The camping area was almost full Fri night and by Sat there wasnt any area that was a "quiet area" any longer. The Show & Shine area was not thought out very well at all. When I saw we were being put on the other side of the fence away from all the other cars I almost pulled out. I got sandwiched in and could barely open my doors to detail my car. I dont think I even saw any of my New Gen buddies come into the Old Gen group to look at the cars.

Old Gen Show & Shine area...

New Gen Show & Shine area...

You make the decision.

I never even knew they were unveiling the XV there and didnt know until the awards ceremony and by then it was too late. I didnt get a chance to browse any of the rest of the show because I waited over 2hrs to get my car judged.What I did enjoy, and at every show in the past, was meeting old friends and making new ones. And yes, I'm looking forward to next year.

The problem I had with the XV is they didn't really explain anything in the lead up, I didn't know what I was looking at or why it was significant. Essentially I was standing there listening to the rep and they pulled the cover off by the time I turned around. A little more showmanship might have caused more folks to gather, and applaud more when it was opened. If I hadn't been there by chance, I'd have missed the whole thing.

It was next to the BRZ and that was a real distraction from the XV also. Kind of a hard act to follow. But yeah, I felt bad too, I winced a little over the lackluster reaction.

I never even knew they were unveiling the XV there and didnt know until the awards ceremony and by then it was too late. I didnt get a chance to browse any of the rest of the show because I waited over 2hrs to get my car judged.What I did enjoy, and at every show in the past, was meeting old friends and making new ones. And yes, I'm looking forward to next year.

+1 agreed on this with ya Turbone. I had no idea it was even happening...and I was VERY excited to see the VX, especially after seening that commerical with all the "old subarus" driving themselves (go youtube VX commerical, its probably the best car commercial I have ever seen). I def didnt mind waiting to get judged, I totally understand and apperciate all the work the judges do, there are alot of cars to check out, but I wish there was a way the "stages" of the event could have been announced...like if the speakers could have been mounted on the top of the grandstands, lol. I would have liked to have had "everyone" corralled over to Subaru for the unviel, while things were put on hold. Really show Subaru the support, give em a "Subaru! Subaru! Subaru!"

I've debated about posting about this and a few other things that bothered me, this will probably rustle some jimmies. I know the organizers work hard and do everything they can to make this a great show and cant always make everyone happy and I'm usually pleased with the entire show. But not this time. They said there would be plenty of room for everything, but there wasnt. The camping area was almost full Fri night and by Sat there wasnt any area that was a "quiet area" any longer. The Show & Shine area was not thought out very well at all. When I saw we were being put on the other side of the fence away from all the other cars I almost pulled out. I got sandwiched in and could barely open my doors to detail my car. I dont think I even saw any of my New Gen buddies come into the Old Gen group to look at the cars.

(Pictures removed for space)

I never even knew they were unveiling the XV there and didnt know until the awards ceremony and by then it was too late. I didnt get a chance to browse any of the rest of the show because I waited over 2hrs to get my car judged.What I did enjoy, and at every show in the past, was meeting old friends and making new ones. And yes, I'm looking forward to next year.

Thanks for posting this Rob, it'll give me a chance to clear up some hows and whys on things coming together the way they did.

There indeed was plenty of room on the grounds for everyone. Some unfortunate placement and planning took place to make things a lot more compact than they were intended to be.

The Z car club that was there was supposed to be in the opposing large field at the front of the grounds by the road. We were intending to use the space that they were in as part of the show, and have the ropes that separated our show vending booth and the grass field across it opened. Un-announced to us, there were water pipes under the ropes, so the ropes could not be moved, and a Z car show in the field that joined across the road with that field. The plan was for people to be able to come from the camp ground to the show, and have the cars on that side of the fence bring everyone there, and be highly visible. We're certainly not shooting to shun the old school guys, you all have your place. It was a good plan. But alas, the best laid plans...

The XV unveiling was a surprise to us as well. A very, very pleasant surprise. We did not have much time to advertise or setup a game plan for it because that car was destined to be (and advertised to be) at the Antique Road Show that was in town the same weekend. Hope and Subaru really pulled some strings to get that car there, and sacrificed it being on short notice over not having it there at all.

Car judging was significantly better this year than it has been in years past. It is always a challenge to balance finding good knowledgeable judges and a quantity of judges. We tend to have as many judges as we've found to be necessary in the past to meet that balance. We feel that this years judging went smoother and faster than many past years. The show is scheduled to be from 12-4 to allow that time in judging. The judges were done by three this year, so a full hour earlier than anticipated.

The camping i'm a little surprised by honestly. We both spent our entire nights up walking the grounds and can really say that this was the most docile grounds we've had yet. There are always the pockets of groups that will be loud wherever they are and can't acknowledge that they are loud, and we try our darnedest to make our rounds and get them moved. My apologies we couldn't make it by your camp site often enough to keep people policed and on the appropriate side of the grounds for their sound level. It was not from a lack of trying.

Camping would not have been as full if we had made a quicker decision to allow camping along the buildings across the road. We were trying hard to keep that space reserved for show cars in an attempt to make up for space off set by the other club. We did eventually begin allowing it in limited use, and sacrificing the potential show space. We also did not park people well in camping, so it created a lot of un-used, and poorly used space in the camp grounds. That will be fixed next year.

Do note, i'm not trying to rant or rave about any of these things, and i'm not berating you for having these concerns. They are legitimate concerns, and I agree with you on many of your points. I wanted to get this on here and clear up some confusions, and your post brought a good number of legitimate ones to light. These circumstances were not our intent, and are not a way the show is aiming to continue.

I hope this clears up some of the hows and why's. We really gave this show our all. We always aim for perfection, but often fall short.

Thanks for responding with the clarifications.
Its unfortunate that the Z Club made things difficult, but didnt people voice their concerns about this before the show? Did anyone talk to them about it?
I understand judging staff was all volunteer, would it have helped if you guys had gave a shout out for help just prior to the S&S? I was a bit surprised that there was only one judge for most Old School classes (dont know about New Gen). I had no clue where our judge was and didnt want to leave my car without talking to him about it. So I couldnt go over to the New Gen S&S because I couldnt see my car.
I had saved 3 spots for friends that couldnt show till Sat and when they did get there they ended up camping in the area you opened up Fri night
I did end up giving 2 of them to late comers. Noise wasnt any worse than normal on Sat night, but I did hear someone around 1am yell at the top of their lungs......STFU!
And who was Cory?

The schedule got a little messed up and I ended up missing some of the raffle and was late for the awards.
And what was up with the ditty bags?
Nothing like years past and there was no dash plaque.

I do appreciate all your hard work trying to make things perfect.
Some day I hope to participate/help with the show.

Tosh, I met your dogs at the show...very well behaved. The one on the right really caught my attention, looked to be 3 different breeds?His attention and focus were amazing, he would look at you and I could swear he was trying to tell me something :-p

Thanks! We got some really good pictures of both of them. Bruno was even in the video subiesport put together of wcss. The one on the right (the big one Charlie) is a bluetick coonhound and english mastiff mix. The other (smaller one Bruno) is pit and shar pei mix.

If you want more room, start making up the judging team.All of you want to show but some of you have been showing the same car forever.:-pToatally valid complaints, but no action behind them.I ************in love you guys but some of the older(as in time known) should step up .Damnit.

This was my first time actually being able to make it to the show. Between getting off work and actually having a running subaru to bring. It crazy to think I've been 'around' the subaru community so long and this is my first one. I loved having the opportunity to help with the judging and help with the mud pit. I had a blast. I really hope I can get a chance to do more for next years show.

While I think it does suck that the old gens got 'put out to pasture' you can see in rob's pictures that the old gens are way way outnumbered. I don't have any kind of exact numbers but I'd say there was at least 3 new gens for every 'pasture car' there. I tried my best with judging the gen 3's and brats. It was great to actually just talk to all you guys about your rides. I didn't see a single one that didn't have something awesome going for it. My "staff" t-shirt is trashed from the mud pit and from crawling under cars to check stuff out. If any of you gen 3/brat guys don't think I gave you a fair look let me know. Honestly I'd really like to know.

Maybe if the categories got switched around some, I don't know. I haven't been to enough wcss's and I've never helped plan one. But when Mike's car in all its glory won by default because their wasn't another car in its category I can't help but think 'something should be different'. Maybe the awards need to be split between the old school and new school like it is with the "swaps" category so that Mikes car is going against things like Dave's coupe for best "race" or hell if its 'old school' maybe we can just have a best old school monster category. Hell there wasn't even a Justy at the show. I think some cool stuff could be done with the mud pit like actually having a 'mud bog' champion or a best "mud pit performance". But what do I know.

I understand judging staff was all volunteer, would it have helped if you guys had gave a shout out for help just prior to the S&S? I was a bit surprised that there was only one judge for most Old School classes (dont know about New Gen). I had no clue where our judge was and didnt want to leave my car without talking to him about it. So I couldnt go over to the New Gen S&S because I couldnt see my car.

Rob, I'd like to apologize for that I was the Gen 3 judge. Part of the reason it took so long for me to get down to you was that I was down helping with mud pit stuff prior to starting judging. I started with the gen 3 & brats that where in the 'mud' section because it was closest to me and I didn't want to miss any of the offroad guys that headed off to Zap's place. I also tried to be really thorough. I think I actually spent less time looking at Dave and your cars because I'm so familiar with them from USMB.

Their was only one judge for each of the classes, although the 3 old school judges (mostly me and russ) defiantly did to some "conferencing" Also we where told to not "stack" awards as in since Dave's coupe won best old school swap he was out of the running for best Gen 3.

As for the whole "shout out for help" for help tex posted on at the end of july that he needed a judge or two for the old school. Apparently only 3 of us offered to help. So we where the ones who did the judging.

All in all I had a blast, some things could of been better sure. But some things went really well. I think monstaru has the right idea, if you want something to be different sacrifice some of your time/money/life to make sure it goes right next year. Maybe we could get some kind of volunteer signup for next year going after you guys get some of the 'when and where' stuff out of the way. I'd be more then willing to show up a day early and clearly mark out parking/camping sites next year for a chance to nab a good one:grin:

Disagree on feeling we were "segragated." Space is valuable, understood, and we were given a space that worked great for us I think. Based on the number of older Subarus, we fit perfectly I thought. Agree with Turbone about the "sandwhiched" feeling some had (Admittedly, I was on the end, right at the mud pit exit, so I do think I was a bit spoiled with what I felt was a prime location). We could have spaced the cars a bit more, there was plenty of room for mud pit access with us only being 3 wide, even if its just 6 inches to each side, it goes a long way. Plus, everyone in the stands had a great overhead view of the "old school," while their backs were to the "new school." With that, two things: Those people into the older Subarus and want a closer up view of the hard work and details are going to walk through and check out our cars regardless of our location. Second, I don't want someone not intersted in our cars walking through the area simply looking for the hotdog stand.

I had honestly thought that us "old schoolers" were placed there on purpose. I loved how the SVXs set on either side of the gate opening (awesome SVX display by Troy, and Mark's black as night SVX), and how the "exit" path lead around through the other gate to the mudd'n Subies. Obviously just my opinion, but I enjoyed our location. We are two different groups meeting for one Subaru meet, with different interests, but "Subaru" being the common. I just think alot of the "new school" who do have interest in the older Subies, really only have interest in the lifted, nasty Subies out getting air in the mud pit and trying to wheel over crushed Chevys and that is why the stands were packed with people cheering on the old school Subarus tearing it up out there. I for one walked past alot of WRXs without to much glancing (and every "new school I saw was simply jawdropping, but its not necessarily my thing)...because I needed a hotdog and some WCSS swag :-p

All in all I had a blast, some things could of been better sure. But some things went really well. I think monstaru has the right idea, if you want something to be different sacrifice some of your time/money/life to make sure it goes right next year. Maybe we could get some kind of volunteer signup for next year going after you guys get some of the 'when and where' stuff out of the way. I'd be more then willing to show up a day early and clearly mark out parking/camping sites next year for a chance to nab a good one:grin:

I told a lot of people who were complaining about various things this. If you don't like it, volunteer your time to make it better next year. It's hard to organize a show like this. Things aren't going to go smoothly, and it sucks for everyone but there's only so much they can do.

I do agree though that the grounds were poorly set up for the show. Very few people made it out to the oldschool or GC sections, they weren't visible from the vender booth area. No fault of the organizers though. They can't change where the buildings were located, plus I noticed a lot of people simply ignoring where they were told to park because they wanted to be near their friends.

As a personal sidenote regarding judging... I was of course disappointed I didn't take home a plaque. But I'm not angry, or feel like the judging was unfair. I had a lot of people telling me they thought I should have won, or that other cars should have won for various reasons... And I definitely appreciate the sentiment but it's really not something to get that upset about. That's not what WCSS is about to me. I'd come if there weren't any awards given out at all. I'll try again next year, and be happy to come home empty handed again.

It's not worth getting mad about guys And if you've decided you're not coming back next year because of the way the show was judged, the show is probably better off without you.

But that statement was from my heart.
I spent the ENTIRE day in the mudpit area aside from bathroom breaks.Literally needed more help.
Tosh helped out alot, and a few others were around at different times.I really, really appreciated all the help I DID get.
Folks were kind enough most all day long.
Just need more help sometimes.:-p
Love it and will work it until I am not needed/wanted...
cheers/me