custom/new game mode

i've been toying with an idea of a new gamemode on pen and paper, but it would require a new UI and new brush entities and/or prop entities to work.
before i go down the road of looking into how to create them, i wanted to know a couple of things:

would using self made entities mean it has to be a mod, and therefore not playable on a mainstream tf2 server?

what is the general consensus of new game modes made by non-Valve people?

i'm not going into the details of it here cos i'm not 100% decided on the particulars just yet.

this was a note here, i'm making a triumph, big headcrab.
aperture spycrab, we do what we must because we can.

I think it depends on the extent of changes. If your basing it on a cap based structure, ctf, pl, etc. Just mixing a few. Would not require server side mods. As long as you use current in game huds. but customize them to a degree. So if your just mixing one of the core game play styles a mod server side isnt needed. However if you were going for something like say zombie fortress, hide and seek, etc. This would require a server side mod. If this were the case, i would aim for sourcemod. I'm not sure its exact language however i believe its C/C++.

the idea is 2 smallish bases + smallish map - in each base is a... i dunno a train or a computer or something.
it's got 3-4 levels of health each level is about 500-600 hp. 1st team to reduce the other teams 'fort' (train/computer/rocketship/whatever it is) to zero health wins.

engineers can repair the fort within a health level, but not to a level above. so if it's lost 500 health it can't get that back but if it's 50 it can be repaired. but at a double metal cost to normal engie repairs.
also at each level lost, there'll be a visual change to it, i.e. terminals falling off or gas leaking out of the boiler or w/e (depending on what's used as the 'fort')

that's it in rough. for a UI it'd need 2 bars to give remaining health amounts for the forts
for gameplay entity i need something that's able to be damaged/repaired.
as a brush entity, i can have it trigger models to fall off at damage levels, as a prop entity it'd need to have a dynamic prop that can go along with it that has animations to be triggered (so i'd be more likely to use a brush entity & triggers)

this was a note here, i'm making a triumph, big headcrab.
aperture spycrab, we do what we must because we can.

If you were to make new entities (or something similar), I don't think you'd have to go as far as making a mod, just alter existing entities using the smartedit option. How you would go about that is really complicated, and would require more than basic knowledge of how the I/O stuff works. But don't ask me, I wouldn't know, lol, I'm not even sure if what I just said is physically possible, I'm just guessing from what I know about using Hammer previously.

It would require a server-side mod to do what you want. There is currently no way to differentiate between classes, let alone have a wrench hit repair something. This isn't even considering getting a user-friendly HUD.

SmartEdit only shows what Hammer is told by the FGD, turning it off (what you really meant) lets you type in your own stuff but it still doesn't matter if the game-code doesn't have any of it.

Going to say this, You can't do the engi repair thing, but you can create a game mode based off of destructable objects, and you probably can make it HUD-Capable with ghost points.

On a note, Z33W13R's idea works well, with the standing next to it repairs it. That's actually not that hard to do; a trigger_multiple will provide a good enough output. An engi though, as I said, cannot repair it. I suppose you could do something similar to it by doing a class limit on what can be damaged by what class and by your team, but I don't think that is actually possible.

On a note mentioned, we should be releasing the current version of the rocket riot pack soon, as both of our maps are nearing the end of their first alpha completion.

Also, I love maps that deviate from Valve's set game modes if they do it well. 'Tis why I am making Rocket Riot!

a thought:
could you use a filter to differentiate between class? and then perhaps have damage done = negatives if the filter is set to engineer? (i.e. causing repairs.)

i don't particularly want every class to be able to repair, since that'd mean that they could all just sit at the point when it's in the last health level and force a stalemate on time out.

having an engie repair + need to use metal + actually have to face it and wrench at it allows for balance. whereas, 6 heavys camping on the point with 1 or 2 dispensers to support them would definately just become a stalemate.
i suppose i could totally leave out the repair thing, but ... well it'd be a big shame cos it just feels like something that makes sense.

with engies being the only one able to repair, and with a higher than normal metal cost, it means spies would dominate a team if it went engineer heavy. thus a team would still have to use other classes to defend, and (hopefully) attack back even from a losing situation.

i'd possibly also put a nobuild zone around the objective so that they can't set up a dispenser too close.

this was a note here, i'm making a triumph, big headcrab.
aperture spycrab, we do what we must because we can.

having an engie repair + need to use metal + actually have to face it and wrench at it allows for balance. whereas, 6 heavys camping on the point with 1 or 2 dispensers to support them would definately just become a stalemate.
i suppose i could totally leave out the repair thing, but ... well it'd be a big shame cos it just feels like something that makes sense.

with engies being the only one able to repair, and with a higher than normal metal cost, it means spies would dominate a team if it went engineer heavy. thus a team would still have to use other classes to defend, and (hopefully) attack back even from a losing situation.

Click to expand...

What I was thinking:

Build a capture area around the destroyable thing. With healing ~1%/30 seconds per player with a maximum of 3 players.

Yes, this is entirely possible

(made something like this for party_fortress)

Thinking about this really wants me to make a map on this game mode

But I'm working on 3 maps already :/

Anyway making entities for this isn't very hard, if you can't work it out yourself give me a pm

i couldwork it out myself to do it that way, but as i said i don't want a case of any class can repair, and meanwhile continue to shoot at attackers.

the choices i made were specifically to prevent a long drawn out stalemate when one side is almost dead, and goes heavily defensive.
i.e. so repairing is limited to one class, which has to actively dosomething, rather than passively be present. it's also slow, and has a resource tied to it (metal) - further preventing a camping situation. also, because it's an active task, not only does it prevent the person repairing from shooting at attackers, it also makes them exposed to spy back stabs (since they will have their back to the area they are in).

i seriously doubt that letting any class be able to repair, while still shooting is going to be a good alternative.

this was a note here, i'm making a triumph, big headcrab.
aperture spycrab, we do what we must because we can.

In that case i think i got a better suggestion. Make a CP that has to become captured to repair the building. This cp however is on the enemy side so people are forced to attack for it. When its captured your own base gets repaired and the CP returns to be for the enemy (maybe with a delay also so people wont constantly go for the cp instead of the enemy target).
This also gives another advantage tactic wise. People are forced to choose between either attacking the target or going for repairing.

An other way is a neutral point in the center. Which team takes it gets a slow repairing on their base. For example a cp that is placed like the 2 fort bridge (its impossible to outcamp it)

Still, remember that the target to destroy shouldnt be to far in the base. Anything like in cp_well cp2 should be enough as when you require them to take cp1 you get the 2fort effect (mostly stalemates).

Both of these options make the attackers able to both damage the enemy or repair their own building. This makes the defenders purely focus on the core also. Just see what works best for you.

ok, so what i've got so far is this:
use a filter_activator_class to only let "engineer" pass
and a filter_damage_type to disallow "bullet"
(so only damage caused by an engineer, that isn't a bullet would pass + a team filter of course)

and i get stuck after this.
i don't think i can apply 2 filters to the same entity.

my thought was to then have a func_breakable or similar, which on damaged outputs to a counter an incremental value.

this was a note here, i'm making a triumph, big headcrab.
aperture spycrab, we do what we must because we can.