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welding with a heart pacemaker

What protection is needed to safely weld with a heart pacemaker installed in ones chest?
I would think that fine wire mesh/ screen would stop any or most all electrical disturbances from getting through to the pacemaker as that's what is in a microwave oven uses in the door glass.Surely there has been some scientific studies done and something recommended.
Sam

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

Just a few random thoughts... I think Inverter welders will generate a lot more High frequency noise than a transformer at the power supply, the arc generates RF also on any welder, any length of wire will act as an antenna converting magnetic energy to electrical current, the power drops by the square of the distance from the source... twice the distance 1/4 the power... so if you decide to weld I'd keep the arc a full arms length for starters... that includes keeping the cable away from your chest as it has a high amperage running through it therefore a strong magnetic field... even if its mostly DC the arc starts and stops generate a pulse...

What about one of those spool gun welders you attach to a set of batteries??? they might not generate any field other than the Arc-RF/start-stop... www.readywelder.com ??? just thoughts, I'm no expert on pacemakers... good luck and have fun

Just curious now.... what, if any, are your instructions for safety around a microwave oven???
I ask because they have intense RF and transformers you can weld with inside them....

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

Most modern pacemakers aren't affected by welding radiation. When originally used, there were some concerns, but not so much anymore.

I remember reading a study a few years ago (5-10) that couldn't find any evidence welding caused changes in the heart rhythm. But if I remember correctly, this was stick welding. I wasn't interested in metal fabrication at the time, so didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it. I'm sure it could be googled to find the study, or a newer study.

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

Aside from HF used in TIG (which is known to be dangerous to pacemakers), and radiation from the power sources, ALL arcs (even DC) generate copious amounts of radio waves, and the high currents from welding will generate magnetic fields around your cables (because they are not twisted together), which are almost impossible to block (your metal screen will block SOME radio interference, but NO magnetic fields).

I doubt there's been much scientific testing of pacemakers accepting interference. If a manufacturer tests for that and says some is ok, they incur liability. If they just warn the users to stay away from interference, they're safe.

Now, is any of that dangerous to you? Who knows, but I'd suggest picking up oxy-acetylene.

Oh, and the screening on a microwave oven works because the long wavelengths of the microwaves make the waves unable to fit through the tiny holes.

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

The mesh in a microwave is there to keep the radiation in, yes, but that's not going to work for all types of radiation. Microwave wave length is about on par with the width of a softball. You have holes in a screen large enough and some of those waves will come through and perhaps blind you. This practice is kind of unique to microwave devices of significant power.

I think the ancient pacemakers were maybe more sensitive to the magnetic fields of the magnetron used in microwave ovens than the radiation itself, if at all.

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

Can anyone with first hand information ( as having a pacemaker now) give any up to date info.
I am wanting to know about this to forward to my father-in-law who has had one put in 2 months ago.
He asked me because I've welded for 30+ years.
His Doctor gave him a pamphlet saying he could weld if he kept a distance of two feet away from the weld & the lead.Not always possible! Also it said that any effects would be temporary so if he felt any then stop and wait for heart beat to return to normal before resuming to weld. BUT i feel like he does, we would rather ware a shield, if there is one available and then not worry about fainting and falling or something if heart rhythm is upset.
By the way i was a utilities company lineman for ten years before becoming a welder in 1975. We had to work on hi voltage lines sometimes and had some conductive coveralls that booties clipped to and gloves all connected together to keep static charge from building and zapping us as we moved about, and that makes me believe that someone makes a welding outfit/jacket/coveralls or shield for someone with a pacemaker.....

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

from a Miller 2050 owner's manual
1-5. EMF Information
Considerations About Welding Or Cutting And The Effects Of Low
Frequency Electric And Magnetic Fields
Welding or cutting current, as it flows through the welding or cutting
cables, will cause electromagnetic fields. There has been and still is
some concern about such fields. However, after examining more than
500 studies spanning 17 years of research, a special blue ribbon
committee of the National Research Council concluded that: “The body
of evidence, in the committee’s judgment, has not demonstrated that
exposure to power-frequency electric and magnetic fields is a humanhealth
hazard.” However, studies are still going forth and evidence
continues to be examined. Until the final conclusions of the research are
reached, you may wish to minimize your exposure to electromagnetic
fields when welding or cutting.
To reduce magnetic fields in the workplace, use the following procedures:
1. Keep cables close together by twisting or taping them.
2. Arrange cables to one side and away from the operator.
3. Do not coil or drape cables around your body.
4. Keep cutting power source and cables as far away from operator
as practical.
5. Connect work clamp to workpiece as close to the cut as possible.About Pacemakers:
Pacemaker wearers consult your doctor first. If cleared by your doctor,
then following the above procedures is recommended.

There are some situations, however, that are to be avoided if you have a pacemaker, such as full-contact sports, which may damage the pacemaker, exposure to arc welding equipment, magnetic resonance scanners (MRI), and high-voltage commercial transformers.

It is recommended you avoid
welding and the use of chain
saws. We understand some
individuals may still need to
use these tools. It is our hope
that any decision you make
to use these tools is made in
consultation with your heart
doctor.

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

Originally Posted by hockeyman

What protection is needed to safely weld with a heart pacemaker installed in ones chest? Sam

First off, I didn't think that a pacemaker would have enough amperage for more than the thinnest sheetmetal. Then there's the problem of the cables coming out of your chest. Did you get that option from your doctor when he installed?

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

Thanks everybody for taking the time to answer back (even 983-over) .
Taking under advisement and passing info. along to be used along with doctors recommendation also i am sure, thanks again everyone.

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

I have a pacemaker. I tried to Tig some high amp aluminum and it lit my pacemaker up. This resulted in an urgent reprogram to my pacemaker. No Tig welding with an implanted device. My pacemaker took a 25 year career away from me...

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

I go along with 983-over. The pulse feature on the pacemaker would make it easier to weld aluminum foil but I think the pulse rate of 60 to 80 a minute would be hard to get used to, as you usually use 60 to 80 a second.

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

By the longest stretch, a welding forum is NO PLACE to be discussing the medical aspects of pacemakers!!! Please be responsible and refer any questions to a DOCTOR! Pacemakers are a very delicate medical subject that should be addressed by medical professionals only.

I find it odd that flame wars start over the liability of welding on trailers, but folks will listen to anecdotal stories about medical aspects of life-saving devices such as pacemakers....just my 2c worth.

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

On Tuesday I was to be fitted with a 24 hour heart monitor, when I told them I welded for a living, they pulled the idea.
Turns out, you can't even have the thing near an electric blanket, let alone a hi frequency welder.
Rescheduled for next week.....just no welding.
Also have to agree with Shortfuse.....go talk with your doctor.
....

Re: welding with a heart pacemaker

Originally Posted by Mick120

On Tuesday I was to be fitted with a 24 hour heart monitor, when I told them I welded for a living, they pulled the idea.
Turns out, you can't even have the thing near an electric blanket, let alone a hi frequency welder.
Rescheduled for next week.....just no welding.
Also have to agree with Shortfuse.....go talk with your doctor.
....

Yeah, Mick, I can just see it now...

Old Joe gets a new pacemaker implanted, goes by his old welding shop, strolls in, and BLAM!!!...his pacemaker goes off-line! Old Joe (if he lives) tells the ER and doctors "well, I figgered it was OK to go back to where they were welding because the experts at the welding forum told about several guys who had no problems being around welding with THEIR pacemakers!!!!..."

Mick, best of luck with your evaluations! Your heath and life are not replaceable. Pacemakers are a wonderful technology and if attended to properly can add many years to your life.