Why not? I wasn't even in the bottom 25%. A lot of them back then in the south had it much worse. In fact, I was grown before I even knew I had it bad, since so many others were much worse off. Heck, we even had electric lights, tho no receptacles, and an outhouse sitting over a hole in the ground. Many of my friends had neither. Oil lamps and a trip into the woods.

I think overall, the kids back then had it better than the kids do now. We could safely ride our bikes anywhere in town, or outside of town. No child killers, no little girl rapists. We learned to work and respect others.

With all due respect, iddee, you did NOT have a safe childhood and it had nothing to do with riding around town at night. You said yourself your dad beat your brothers into unconsciousness. I don't think growing up without electricity is appalling. I think growing up without love is, though.

Listen, I'm not here to defend abortion. It only came up in a side reference to Romney's choice of a running mate. I've said what I've said, and I haven't heard any great ideas on what to do with unwanted children. I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the "growing up with great adversity is GOOD for you!" Yes, that's true sometimes. But are you willing to bet on that for the vast majority of kids?

Of COURSE people should use better protection or consider abstinence if they don't want children. But that is simply not happening. Much of the universe is not the way I would choose it, but that doesn't mean I get to ignore the negative consequences.

Adoption is not the answer. If it were, we wouldn't have kids moldering in the foster care system.

Buzzbee, nobody is pro abortion. Nobody thinks it's a lovely choice. They just think it should BE a choice. As for the death penalty, the opposite is also interesting. Those fighting like crazy to prevent abortion often seem to be the same fighting for the death penalty. Who can figure?

Of course people should be responsible and take care of their sexuality and fertility. Assuming this is all a matter of maturity and responsibility (as you are), then by your logic the very people who are least able to parent, will be having the unwanted children.

Vance, it IS god like to force women to give birth to children they don't want. You are telling those children that your moral views are more important than what kind of life they will be forced to live. Will YOU be there when they are abused, neglected, in pain?

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The pedigree of honey Does not concern the bee; A clover, any time, to him Is aristocracy. ---Emily Dickinson

Vance, it IS god like to force women to give birth to children they don't want. You are telling those children that your moral views are more important than what kind of life they will be forced to live. Will YOU be there when they are abused, neglected, in pain?

that's an amazing statement.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Vance, it IS god like to force women to give birth to children they don't want. You are telling those children that your moral views are more important than what kind of life they will be forced to live. Will YOU be there when they are abused, neglected, in pain?

I'm sure men are about to step up to the plate in record numbers to take responsibility--emotionally, fiscally, physically--for the children they're helping to create.

i'd be all for forcing them to do that. with the current DNA tech, it's pretty easy and fast to ID the father. make the mothers fess up to the paternity. if they can get pregnant and expect not to be responsible, they can be forced to confess the ID of the father.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

You can say right-wrong what ever you want to about free pills abortions for women all that crap--I an 77 years old and we had a lot better times when loose women kept their mouth shut and their legs crossed.. You can blame it on the men all you want to BUT IT IS STILL YOUR DECISION TO HAVE SEX OR NOT...so there, I am a male schovenist I guess, but think instead of mouthing off...JPP

Blame it on men? Are you kidding? First of all, that hasn't been happening, but last time I checked men were at least equally responsible. JPBEEGETTER--Your comments are piggish, mysognistic and highly offensive. I'm sorry, but you no longer live on a planet where women need to keep their mouths shut, and I bet that really bothers you.

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The pedigree of honey Does not concern the bee; A clover, any time, to him Is aristocracy. ---Emily Dickinson

Don't nothing you say bother me sweetie , because I have lived in the best times this country will ever see. All downhill now because of people like you ,so live in it.. You get yours , I got mine... HID. JPP

Don't nothing you say bother me sweetie , because I have lived in the best times this country will ever see. All downhill now because of people like you ,so live in it.. You get yours , I got mine... HID. JPP

Yeah, I lead a pretty offensive life. Married, 2 kids, employed my whole life. And don't you ever call me sweetie. I'm exiting this thread before my head explodes.

ETA: I've noticed that it takes a strong man to be with a strong woman. Men who like to subjugate women seem to be quite weak (although not necessarily physically), unintelligent, and inadequate. That's why they feel threatened by strong women.

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The pedigree of honey Does not concern the bee; A clover, any time, to him Is aristocracy. ---Emily Dickinson

Like I said one time before WHY IS IT NO ONE EVER RETIRES AND MOVES NORTH.... answer that one..

Because its not true :roll: Lots of people are retired and have moved up North, myself included, just not as many as move South, thank goodness for us Northerners!!

Its way too cold and miserable up here, you don't wanna come here, no, no you don't. We've got Bears and Wolves, wolverines, badgers and GIANT Muskies that will bite your foot clean off at the ankle if your just dippin' your foot in the water off the dock, and 35 below zero w/ wind chills over 80 below. No, you don't wannna come North. :-D

« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 03:09:03 PM by T Beek »

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Why not? I wasn't even in the bottom 25%. A lot of them back then in the south had it much worse. In fact, I was grown before I even knew I had it bad, since so many others were much worse off. Heck, we even had electric lights, tho no receptacles, and an outhouse sitting over a hole in the ground. Many of my friends had neither. Oil lamps and a trip into the woods.

I think overall, the kids back then had it better than the kids do now. We could safely ride our bikes anywhere in town, or outside of town. No child killers, no little girl rapists. We learned to work and respect others.

With all due respect, iddee, you did NOT have a safe childhood and it had nothing to do with riding around town at night. You said yourself your dad beat your brothers into unconsciousness. I don't think growing up without electricity is appalling. I think growing up without love is, though.

Listen, I'm not here to defend abortion. It only came up in a side reference to Romney's choice of a running mate. I've said what I've said, and I haven't heard any great ideas on what to do with unwanted children. I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the "growing up with great adversity is GOOD for you!" Yes, that's true sometimes. But are you willing to bet on that for the vast majority of kids?

Of COURSE people should use better protection or consider abstinence if they don't want children. But that is simply not happening. Much of the universe is not the way I would choose it, but that doesn't mean I get to ignore the negative consequences.

Adoption is not the answer. If it were, we wouldn't have kids moldering in the foster care system.

Buzzbee, nobody is pro abortion. Nobody thinks it's a lovely choice. They just think it should BE a choice. As for the death penalty, the opposite is also interesting. Those fighting like crazy to prevent abortion often seem to be the same fighting for the death penalty. Who can figure?

Of course people should be responsible and take care of their sexuality and fertility. Assuming this is all a matter of maturity and responsibility (as you are), then by your logic the very people who are least able to parent, will be having the unwanted children.

Vance, it IS god like to force women to give birth to children they don't want. You are telling those children that your moral views are more important than what kind of life they will be forced to live. Will YOU be there when they are abused, neglected, in pain?

BEEEUUUUUTIIIIIFUULLLL!!!!!!!!! X:X X:X X:X

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Vance, it IS god like to force women to give birth to children they don't want. You are telling those children that your moral views are more important than what kind of life they will be forced to live. Will YOU be there when they are abused, neglected, in pain?

No, but our ever expanding prison system will.

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

It must be nice to be godlike and the arbiter of who's life is worth living and who's is not. By that logic poor people are miserable and should be allowed to starve to death, right? Do the ugly and deformed need to die? Poor dressers? People with bad teeth? Come on now, where does your omnipotence draw the line? The list of famous productive people who you would have condemned to death is huge. Benjamin Franklin who was the Renaisance man of his age was the 13th child of a family that was desperately poor, must have been neglected children as one of his siblings "drownd in a bucket of suds" So 'Your godlikeness', would you have wished him not born too? I hope that your guilt is not to great if you are ever cured of your mental disorder.

Oh, definitely, Vance--I became a foster parent because I believe all the dregs of society should die. Give me a break. And you STILL haven't told me how you'd care for all the children born to parents who don't want them. It is so, so very easy to take what you feel is the moral high ground and preach to me about extermination (a bit dramatic, don't you think? Since abortion was legalized in the 70s, have you seen people killed for bad teeth?), but a little harder to give some actual ideas on how to take care of the children.

If you're going to cite the Ben Franklins, then you better include the street urchins of that time, those who starved, were beaten to death, froze to death, were raped, sold into child slavery and prostitution.

And don't stop in America. Consider the globe where pregnancy is all too often a death sentence for women. Perhaps you're like JPBG and think "loose women" should keep their legs shut, but I challenge you to look into the rape statitistics worldwide. And yes, it's men raping women. If men died of rape like women die of childbirth in developing nations, perhaps we would be having a different conversation.

Thankfully, Vance, I don't decide anything but for myself. For myself I chose children and feel grateful to live in a place and time where it was an actual choice. The only guilt I have, Vance, is I will never, no matter how long I live, have helped enough children who were born into families who did not want them, could not care for them, neglected them and abused them.

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The pedigree of honey Does not concern the bee; A clover, any time, to him Is aristocracy. ---Emily Dickinson

luvin honey; seems we have much in common beside living in WI. We also fostered kids for a few years, teenagers mostly, respite care with lots of late night (middle of the night) phone calls and preparations.

WE had some real hardship cases but we'd only have them for a few days at most. We simply provided a temporary 'safe' place for some troubled kids and despite some problems we don't regret the experience. We still hear from severl of them.

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Tennessee had the right idea about these baby makers ,(loose women that hung around bars)having sex with any/everybody. If they had 3 out of wedlock they "fixed" them. Then along came our friends the ACLU and said that it was unconstitutional to take away their right to produce welfare income..