Monday Acoustic Break: Jon Gomm - “Ain’t Nobody”

Anyone else ever get this thing where the videos on the front page are all shifted by an article. For example, on my front page right now the video for this article is actually a climate change denier from a couple articles below, and that article shows the video of Obama saying Israel has the right to defend itself etc.

Just wondering if it is me or some weird thing the page does. I've seen it happen a few times.

Isn't this an amazing thing to see? The GOP now completely pandering to the Latino Community. It's unseemly and insulting. The party of the grownups has turned into that crazy ex-girlfriend that won't go away

Note to our Latino brothers and sisters.. Make sure you get it in writing. They think they can just talk shit and everything will be ok.

Gentleman’s Quarterly (GQ) has published a recent interview they did with rock star and Giant-Threat-To-The-Left Republican Marco Rubio. You just knew they would try to sabotage him with a question somewhere along the way, and the one they picked was this:

GQ: How old do you think the Earth is?

Rubio, as a man of faith, gave a perfect answer:

I’m not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that’s a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I’m not a scientist. I don’t think I’m qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries.

Exactly right. It is none of Rubio's business, and there are competing beliefs on the matter. This was GQ's attempt to fringe out Rubio immediately, or to make him insult more fundamentalist members of his base. He didn't fall for it.

To make matters worse for the left, most Hispanics attend some form of church, whether it be Catholic or Evangelical, and Rubio’s answer wouldn’t displease them. This makes the left nuts, especially since they have no grounds to insult him for being one of those "kooks" based on this answer. Rubio, so far, is too smart for the mainstream press. Which makes them fighting mad.

"Look, I mean, everyone has the right to defend himself. They are saying that they're defending their selves. Of what? Of rockets. They have no missiles in them. It's an empty rocket. It's just a kind of tube kind of going and doing nothing. But it's our way of defense. We have nothing," Matar said.

"I have only one kid, a little girl, and I want her to live in peace. I want her to live in Palestine. We have the right to defense ourselves. No one wants war, no one...But what kind of peace we need, that is the question," he said.

A Palestinian man at a Gaza hospital today was more blunt as dead bodies were brought out for funerals. The bodies included some of the nine members of the Daloo family who died Sunday when the Israeli missile destroyed the building in which they had been.

When asked whether he thought the toll on civilians, particularly children, was too high and Hamas and its allies should stop firing rockets at Israel, he replied that the victims included a woman in her 70s and a 4-year-old child.

"All the Israeli media said that there are fighters inside the house, but we are from the family. We're denying totally that there is a fighter inside the house that was bombarded," he said.

"And we ask all the groups to retaliate for these massacres and we believe now we shouldn't talk about ceasefire at all," he said.

It's really hard to understand the logic of firing empty missiles but the public seem to like the idea.

Haniyeh characterized the one-day summit as "the final solution to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute," and invited every Jewish citizen of the world to attend. Haniyeh said he expects more than 5 million participants from Israel alone.

"It was foolish of us to think that a satisfactory resolution could be reached through small-scale aggression," Haniyeh said. "It will take more than the sporadic deaths of small groups of Israeli civilians to achieve our ends."

Creepy neo-Confederate Robert Stacy McCain has another in his seemingly endless series of posts on my irrelevance: [Link: theothermccain.com...]

RS McCain's condensed wingnut history of LGF is a hoot:

Since 2007, however, LGF has imploded, following the apparent mental breakdown of its operator, Charles Johnson, who went psycho on Pamela Geller, embraced global warming, began attacking climate-change “denialists,” declared war on the Tea Party and presided over months of frenzied purges during which he and his henchmen banned thousands of the site’s former commenters, eventually banning even some of the LGF henchmen who had led the original wave of purges.

I went psycho on poor innocent Pamela Geller! And months of frenzied purges! Sounds very dramatic. Then the most horrible of all... I embraced global warming! Gahh! Nooooooooo.....

Further, who is to say what payloads those rockets might carry down the road.

True but for the longer range rockets they've been taking out the payload to increase range. It just seemss odd that the Palestinian public is aware of this and thinks it's a good idea. Oh well.
I'm starting to think the Israelis are going to avoid a ground invasion if they can. Although I don't see much military purpose it does kind of piss me off that the Israelis just have to sit and wait for the Palestinians to fire all their rockets. There are no good choices.

I don't know ... how are you at frenzy? We won't stand for any calm, calculated purges around here. We're about out of control frantic purging. Not everybody can work themselves up into the swivel-eyed, slobbering state of frenzy that the job requires.

II Guidelines for Legion of Doom troops:
15. If your unit's name contains words like "Imperial", "Elite", "Supreme", "Tactical", "Storm" or "Special", request a transfer as soon as possible. These guys always get clobbered first when the Heroes attack.

I don't know ... how are you at frenzy? We won't stand for any calm, calculated purges around here. We're about out of control frantic purging. Not everybody can work themselves up into the swivel-eyed, slobbering state of frenzy that the job requires.

I'm pretty twitchy and highly impulsive. But I can learn the slobbering.

Yikes. Just checked the firewall logs on the new web server for the first time. It's incredible how many ssh login attempts are going on constantly, every minute of every hour. I can't believe how many brute force attacks have been shut down in just a few weeks.

A vast unseen army of malicious bots is constantly testing and probing the defenses of every server on the web.

Yikes. Just checked the firewall logs on the new web server for the first time. It's incredible how many ssh login attempts are going on constantly, every minute of every hour. I can't believe how many brute force attacks have been shut down in just a few weeks.

A vast unseen army of malicious bots is constantly testing and probing the defenses of every server on the web.

Yikes. Just checked the firewall logs on the new web server for the first time. It's incredible how many ssh login attempts are going on constantly, every minute of every hour. I can't believe how many brute force attacks have been shut down in just a few weeks.

A vast unseen army of malicious bots is constantly testing and probing the defenses of every server on the web.

I actually started watching that when I was looking for a job. It's ridiculous and cheesy but I thought it was cute. And if I was the target age all over again, I'd be pestering my mom for all the toys I could handle. Haha.

The office of the Director of National Intelligence responds to, and debunks, the latest iteration of the endlessly shifting Benghazi conspiracy theories, that the White House edited the declassified talking points, removing references to al Qaeda for the sake of political expediency:

The intelligence community - not the White House, State Department or Justice Department - was responsible for the substantive changes made to the talking points distributed for government officials who spoke publicly about the attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, the spokesman for the director of national intelligence said Monday.

The unclassified talking points on Libya, developed several days after the the deadly attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, were not substantively changed by any agency outside of the intelligence community, according to the spokesman, Shawn Turner.

Republican criticism of the talking points intensified last Friday following a closed door hearing with former CIA Director David Petraeus.

Rep. Peter King, R-New York, told reporters after the hearing that the original talking parts drafted by the CIA had been changed and it was unclear who was responsible.

"The original talking points were much more specific about al Qaeda involvement and yet final ones just said indications of extremists," King said.

...

The unclassified talking points were first developed by the CIA at the request of the House Intelligence Committee, whose members wanted to know what they could say publicly about the Benghazi attack.

The initial version included information linking individuals involved in the attack to al Qaeda, according to a senior U.S. official familiar with the drafting of the talking points But when the document was sent to the rest of the intelligence community for review, there was a decision to change "al Qaeda" to "extremists." The official said the change was made for legitimate intelligence and legal reasons, not for political purposes.

"First, the information about individuals linked to al Qaeda was derived from classified sources," the official said. "Second, when links were so tenuous - as they still are - it makes sense to be cautious before pointing fingers so you don't set off a chain of circular and self-reinforcing assumptions. Third, it is important to be careful not to prejudice a criminal investigation in its early stages."

Some Republican members of Congress suggested the change came from within the Obama administration - from the White House, the Justice Department, or another government agency.

Turner, the spokesman for National Intelligence Director James Clapper, said that was not the case.

"The intelligence community made substantive, analytical changes before the talking points were sent to government agency partners for their feedback," Turner said, referring to the White House, Justice Department, State Department, Pentagon and FBI. "There were no substantive changes made to the talking points after they left the intelligence community," he said.

The White House on Friday said it made only one change, substituting the word "mission" for "consulate."

The FBI requested a change in language which originally stated the U.S. "knew" Islamic extremists participated in the attack. According to a U.S. intelligence official the wording was changed to "there are indications" Islamic extremists participated.

I actually started watching that when I was looking for a job. It's ridiculous and cheesy but I thought it was cute. And if I was the target age all over again, I'd be pestering my mom for all the toys I could handle. Haha.

I'll admit I watched the series, haven't seen the most recent episodes. And I say that because it reminds me of a lot of the cartoons I watched during the 90s, that it's not simple and childish, and there's enough references to stuff that adults would know to get the jokes.

The office of the Director of National Intelligence responds to, and debunks, the latest iteration of the endlessly shifting Benghazi conspiracy theories, that the White House edited the declassified talking points, removing references to al Qaeda for the sake of political expediency:

I'm not the target age, but I buy all the toys I want. That's one advantage of being an adult.

Fun fact ~ I helped the Columbia Record club to change their rules and only allow folks 18 and over to commit to those buying contracts. They tried to make me finish my buying obligation and I wrote them back that I had just learned in my Business Law class that being 17, they could not hold me to the contract!

I'm not the target age, but I buy all the toys I want. That's one advantage of being an adult.

Fun fact ~ I helped the Columbia Record club to change their rules and only allow folks 18 and over to commit to those buying contracts. They tried to make me finish my buying obligation and I wrote them back that I had just learned in my Business Law class that being 17, they could not hold me to the contract!

OK, I have to stop grepping through these logs now, I'm gonna have nightmares.

I had my ssh server exposed to the world for a while when I was hosting a website temporarily. I watched, live, one night as someone tried a fairly comprehensive dictionary attack on my machine. It was fascinating in a morbid sense.

I had my ssh server exposed to the world for a while when I was hosting a website temporarily. I watched, live, one night as someone tried a fairly comprehensive dictionary attack on my machine. It was fascinating in a morbid sense.

My server would be easy to crack. There is nothing in there anyone would want tho.

I had a wingnut try to "splain" to me that Walmart "saves the taxpayer money!" I'm like WTF? and he's like all "Yeah cause if they didn't work for shit pay at Walmart they'd be like all unemployed and totally on welfare and food stamps and shit."

My server would be easy to crack. There is nothing in there anyone would want tho.

I didn't particularly care if they made their way in. I was more just fascinated by being able to watch live. I backtracked them to a .ro hostname, but of course, who knows if that's actually where they were. At the time, though, I didn't know about the layers of indirection hackers could go through.

I had a wingnut try to "splain" to me that Walmart "saves the taxpayer money!" I'm like WTF? and he's like all "Yeah cause if they didn't work for shit pay at Walmart they'd be like all unemployed and totally on welfare and food stamps and shit."

*head desk*

That's how these folks "think"

I bet he thinks that drug testing for welfare is a smart, fiscally sound idea that will save the states money, too.

I had a wingnut try to "splain" to me that Walmart "saves the taxpayer money!" I'm like WTF? and he's like all "Yeah cause if they didn't work for shit pay at Walmart they'd be like all unemployed and totally on welfare and food stamps and shit."

*head desk*

That's how these folks "think"

Tried talking to my folks about that, and they just totally blew me off. The idea that a person can have a job and still collect welfare just totally does not compute in their minds. The only people who seem to collect food stamps and financial aid are the "lazy asses" who are "too good" to hold down a job.

Ever since Rick Perry announced he wants to mandate drug tests for welfare and unemployment here in Texas my Republican FB friends keep posting about how great that is, because they work for their money so no one should get to live high on the hog on welfare for free.

They always conveniently skip the part where Perry would mandate those same drug tests for unemployment benefits too. Just wait until one of them gets laid off and has to be tested before they get the money they're entitled to. I'm sure they'll turn around and rant about bureaucrats and invasive government.

Tried talking to my folks about that, and they just totally blew me off. The idea that a person can have a job and still collect welfare just totally does not compute in their minds. The only people who seem to collect food stamps and financial aid are the "lazy asses" who are "too good" to hold down a job.

Yeah, my dad said as much in his unhinged rant that I referred to from their weekend visit here to the wild north country. It's clear that they have an irrational hatred of anything government.

Tried talking to my folks about that, and they just totally blew me off. The idea that a person can have a job and still collect welfare just totally does not compute in their minds. The only people who seem to collect food stamps and financial aid are the "lazy asses" who are "too good" to hold down a job.

The "argument" (such as it is) goes that yeah, Walmart workers get SOME welfare and food stamps but if they didn't work at Walmart they would get EVEN MORE WELFARE AND FOOD STAMPS so "Walmart is saving taxpayers money."

Ever since Rick Perry announced he wants to mandate drug tests for welfare and unemployment here in Texas my Republican FB friends keep posting about how great that is, because they work for their money so no one should get to live high on the hog on welfare for free.

They always conveniently skip the part where Perry would mandate those same drug tests for unemployment benefits too. Just wait until one of them gets laid off and has to be tested before they get the money they're entitled to. I'm sure they'll turn around and rant about bureaucrats and invasive government.

Every place that I worked from about 1987 to 2002 had a mandatory drug test as a condition for employment. Then I think somebody filed a lawsuit and suddenly these drug tests were ruled unconstitutional.

The "argument" (such as it is) goes that yeah, Walmart workers get SOME welfare and food stamps but if they didn't work at Walmart they would get EVEN MORE WELFARE AND FOOD STAMPS so "Walmart is saving taxpayers money."

Oh G-D my brain hurts.

"So what if he needs a little help! At least he has a job!"

That really is an indictment of our nation, that we've come to believe that no matter how shitty the job is, how poor the pay, or how much our boss treats us like a slave, "at least we have a job."

Every place that I worked from about 1987 to 2002 had a mandatory drug test as a condition for employment. Then I think somebody filed a lawsuit and suddenly these drug tests were ruled unconstitutional.

Oh, that's another one I hear a lot. "I have to take a drug test to get a job, so these lazy welfare jerks should get a drug test before they get their money!"

Further, who is to say what payloads those rockets might carry down the road.

The BM-21 is capable of carrying cluster rounds and even Field Artillery SCAtterable Mines (FASCAM). Hamas does not use FASCAM rounds, though, perhaps in part because such rounds are detested within Europe. Using them would cause papers like the Guardian to be less friendly to Hamas.

A large rocket like the Fajhr-5 can carry Sarin or VX nerve gas payloads. But unless Hamas was going for broke and about collapse, I can't see them using chemical weapons. If they did, they'd lose all sympathy in the West at once and Israel would do what ever it took thereafter to destroy Hamas.

And this move isn’t just about athletics, Maryland President Wallace D. Loh said at a press conference on Monday afternoon, flanked by a group of coaches and staff members. Loh said the new conference will bring the university more money — and more academic perks.

[...]

Back in my day the Big Ten was defined geographically (as these conferences were by nature), a reasonably idea given the amount of travel incurred by teams.

Now, Minnesota teams will have to travel a thousand miles to Maryland, or Maryland teams likewise in reverse.

Academia is not about efficiency -its about big business and building edifices so that regents and board members can point to buildings with their names on them.

“We dislike Israel, we dislike Jews even more,” read the statement posted with the last of that list of data spills, which consisted of mostly government officials’ email addresses. “So, all you fucked up baby-killing government officials can get spammed back to the 90′s when your router got fried.”

Academia is not about efficiency -its about big business and building edifices so that regents and board members can point to buildings with their names on them.

In behalf of my father who just retired after more than forty years teaching , and my mother who is still going strong at Rhode Island College: Why the fuck are you leaving teachers entirely out of your analysis of 'academia'?

As outrageous as it might seem it's just 4chan children. They're angry and stupid.

I'm more concerned about the Glenn Greenwald's, MJ Rosenbergs and Andrew Sullivan's of the world. They're smarter, and although marginal these days, will become more mainstream with the next Republican president.

Why the fuck are you leaving teachers entirely out of your analysis of 'academia'?

Academia is also about that quaint old deal of teaching students.

Yes, quaint and old fashioned. As tenure becomes a thing of the past and more and more instruction is done by non-tenured contracted instructors the idea of the "academe" of old will pass into history.

Ok, so I'm a doomer, but I see government reducing expenditures on education (in constant dollars - inflation will eat away at the face value) when push comes to shove against medicare and social security.

It's already happened here in California. I know the local community colleges have slashed the number of classes being offered, and removed classes from their catalogs that aren't required for degrees (art classes tend to get hit hard in this case.)

But somehow the regents/college districts always seem to find money to borrow to build new buildings. And then let the classrooms remain empty because they don't have the budget to hire a (non-tenured) instructor to teach a class.

I'm more concerned about the Glenn Greenwald's, MJ Rosenbergs and Andrew Sullivan's of the world. They're smarter, and although marginal these days, will become more mainstream with the next Republican president.

My sister pointed out the other day that it seems more and more features and books are being made about Lincoln lately. And I had to point out to her that, starting last year, we're in the middle of what is essentially a very long 150th anniversary of the American Civil War.

Bought Turkey legs today. I had to request them at the butcher's counter but 6 large turkey legs cost me under a buck each. I don't think I could eat one in a single sitting. I may add them to my regular rotation.

He's along the same lines, more or less. I could throw in Max Blumenthal and Michael Moore. They're aren't all necessarily on the same cardinal points of the compass but equally off the rails of reality.

"The couple lived next door to the house where investigators are focusing. The co-owner of that house, John Shirley, told The Associated Press he had recently received a text message from his daughter saying the furnace in the home, which she shares with her mother and her mother’s boyfriend, had gone out.

Shirley’s ex-wife, Monserrate Shirley, said her boyfriend, Mark Leonard, had replaced the thermostat recently and the furnace had resumed working."

The thing is, Obama hasn't been silent, and some on the left clearly aren't happy with what he's been saying (the contents of that tweet for example). But he's obviously right that american tribal politics being what they are would mean a whole lot more noise if the opposition was in power.

It was that dweeb MJay's freakout that convinced me to vote for Obama. It just proved that Obama is totally not the "Israel hater" the wingnuts say he is.

He is one nutty dude. I used to get pissed and upset by people like him but now I just think they're curiosities. Sometimes you can figure out how they ended up that way, sometimes not. It's still fun to try.

The thing is, Obama hasn't been silent, and some on the left clearly aren't happy with what he's been saying (the contents of that tweet for example). But he's obviously right that american tribal politics being what they are would mean a whole lot more noise if the opposition was in power.

Yeah, as nutty as MJ is, he's not really wrong on that tweet. If Mitt had won we'd be seeing a lot of progressive stuff about the aggression in Gaza is because Mitt is Israel's servant, etc. Although a lot of progressive sites aren't happy but the reaction is subdued because Obama is still president. So it goes.

Well, I've Tweeted a few things about Obama WRT to Gaza. Frankly, I'm not impressed. There's not much nuance in either his or State's response to this. It's basically a boiler plate response and nothing approaching progressive. The standard response of course would be that Obama's not a progressive. I voted for him. Now that he's won I think more progressives should speak out. After all, he was the one that said to hold his feet to the fire. Oh, on more thing. Obama "climate change policy" is rather weak if he even has any real policy at all. Sorry, but now that he's won I'm not going to be a "yes man" to him anymore.

The thing is, Obama hasn't been silent, and some on the left clearly aren't happy with what he's been saying (the contents of that tweet for example). But he's obviously right that american tribal politics being what they are would mean a whole lot more noise if the opposition was in power.

The Barack Obama of 2004 might well have spoken out against Operation: Pillar of Justice, but the Obama of 2012 has learned many things about security policy and he's come to understand that sometimes violence is the only answer to enemy bent on aggression.

Yeah, as nutty as MJ is, he's not really wrong on that tweet. If Mitt had won we'd be seeing a lot of progressive stuff about the aggression in Gaza is because Mitt is Israel's servant, etc. Although a lot of progressive sites aren't happy but the reaction is subdued because Obama is still president. So it goes.

Well, I've Tweeted a few things about Obama WRT to Gaza. Frankly, I'm not impressed. There's not much nuance in either his or State's response to this. It's basically a boiler plate response and nothing approaching progressive. The standard response of course would be that Obama's not a progressive. I voted for him. Now that he's won I think more progressives should speak out. After all, he was the one that said to hold his feet to the fire. Oh, on more thing. Obama "climate change policy" is rather weak if he even has any real policy at all. Sorry, but now that he's won I'm not going to be a "yes man" to him anymore.

I'll basically agree with you on that but my perspective is a bit different. You're asking the right question but from the wrong angle. It's not about "why isn't Obama more progressive" but "why can't Obama be more progressive.'' It's about understanding how the world works intead of asking why it doesn't work the way we want it to. Foriegn policy and energy policy are excellent examples, there's a reason why so little changes. I'm not sure what those reasons might be but I am sure those reasons aren't found on Fox, MSNBC, Daily caller or Think Progress.

I'll basically agree with you on that but my perspective is a bit different. You're asking the right question but from the wrong angle. It's not about "why isn't Obama more progressive" but "why can't Obama be more progressive.'' It's about understanding how the world works intead of asking why it doesn't work the way we want it to. Foriegn policy and energy policy are excellent examples, there's a reason why so little changes. I'm not sure what those reasons might be but I am sure those reasons aren't found on Fox, MSNBC, Daily caller or Think Progress.

Another good example. That's about IRS/federal income tax. Obama might want to decriminalize weed but until there's federal legislation, all these state laws "legalizing" it don't mean shit.

You start by making statement and not like the one's he's made which sounded like something from Richard Nixon. He won't talk about decriminalizing weed because he doesn't want to decriminalize weed. Otherwise he'd make an effort to talk with that antique Harry Reed in the Senate and that other antique, Nancy Pelosi in the House to think about putting together some bill to revise the Controlled Substances Act of 1970.

America has temporarily lost its appetite for boldness in foreign policy as a result of Operation: Iraqi Freedom. It may return in time, but for the present the length of US involvement in Iraq and the difficulties and casualties incurred have deadened America's desire to be bold. This is augmented by the isolationism that severe recessions naturally generate.

No, the United States of America will not be exercising bold leadership on the international states in the near term nor likely in the mid-term. We're tired, frustrated, and broke.

America has temporarily lost its appetite for boldness in foreign policy as a result of Operation: Iraqi Freedom. It may return in time, but for the present the length of US involvement in Iraq and the difficulties and casualties incurred have deadened America's desire to be bold. This is augmented by the isolationism that severe recessions naturally generate.

No, the United States of America will not be exercising bold leadership on the international states in the near term nor likely in the mid-term. We're tired, frustrated, and broke.

In behalf of my father who just retired after more than forty years teaching , and my mother who is still going strong at Rhode Island College: Why the fuck are you leaving teachers entirely out of your analysis of 'academia'?

soon we will celebrate the uniquely american festival of thanksgiving, when we bitch about how we do all the work while other people enjoy the soft life living offa our taxes and my brother in law is an idiot why does he have to spend the holidays here

Ugh, my old man's gonna drive me to drink. We've put off our travel plans for the last couple days because his back's been killing him. He decided to work overtime most of last week, then after going to the doctor yesterday and getting three scripts for pain killers and steroids as well as a referral for a consult, he lifts a big back of cat food and two heavy bags of cat litter into and out of his car. And yet, after spending the last couple days sleeping on and off due to the meds, he swears he's gonna leave tomorrow morning for a 10 hr car trip.

So all this time when they thought they were hiding it amongst the civilians you find out that because of this, they hid it in the southern part of the strip. Perhaps.

What, the planetary defense laser at the apex of the Luxor? I've known about that one for years. Perfectly safe to operate, and something the Illuminati let the rest of the world know about because the truly paranoid don't believe something can hide in plain sight like that.

What, the planetary defense laser at the apex of the Luxor? I've known about that one for years. Perfectly safe to operate, and something the Illuminati let the rest of the world know about because the truly paranoid don't believe something can hide in plain sight like that.

Vegas:
Joey and I had answered an ad in the paper for henchmen for hire.
That was the beginning of my career as a Vegas Henchman. There is a lot of money to be made in Vegas. Our gang of henchmen didn't meet Charles till the late 90's. Started out as small time Watergate tricks, you know a steady stream of hookers to their hotel rooms.
rewriting all the RW talking points and faxing them out to party leaders....

I come from two countries that are far from perfect. We have done many wrongs. From that, I have learned. Some people from other countries should try that instead of thinking that they are perfect in every way.

I come from two countries that are far from perfect. We have done many wrongs. From that, I have learned. Some people from other countries should try that instead of thinking that they are perfect in every way.

Yeah, well I'm from America, and we don't need to learn nothin' because we're damned near perfect!

Tomorrow morning it starts all over again. Some snipping. Then the usual barrage of Middle East news centering around Arabs. Maybe some news about murders in Chicago. Code Pink or Daily Kos said something or another.

So here's my contribution for the night to LGF musical culture: the Symphony #7, ("Variation Symphony") by Peter Mennin. This is my favorite American symphony and IMHO one of the great symphonies of the 20th century (I'm also partial to another #7, that of Sibelius).

This is the National Orchestra of the ORTF (French Office of Radio and Television) conducted by Jean Martinon.

Scientology critics allege church tried to influence Pinellas legal community in Lisa McPherson caseScientology critics allege in recently filed court papers that the church hired local lawyers to schmooze Pinellas judges and gave gifts to a prominent attorney trying to gain influence during the legal saga that followed the 1995 death of Scientologist Lisa McPherson.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
I hate pretty much no one. Except Scientologist and well, that ends the list. And Lisa McPherson?
[Link: www.lisamcpherson.org...]

I kind of don't get why people are flipping out. As far as I've seen, there's been a few totally out of line comments-- like accusations of people supporting Hamas-- but in general it is a really fucked up situation where any commentary is naturally going to be thorny. Mostly, I've seen people acknowledge the frustrating intractability of the situation and scrape their knuckles raw against reality.

I kind of don't get why people are flipping out. As far as I've seen, there's been a few totally out of line comments-- like people supporting Hamas-- but in general it is a really fucked up situation where any commentary is naturally going to be thorny. Mostly, I've seen people acknowledge the frustrating intractability of the situation and scrape their knuckles raw against reality.

It's nowhere near as bad as it was when I first got to LGF.

I guess I don't know what the ideal that other people have is of LGF.

Old habits die hard 'round here. Lot of folks still don't take kindly to the suggestion that Israel's actions are less than honorable.

Old habits die hard 'round here. Lot of folks still don't take kindly to the suggestion that Israel's actions are less than honorable.

I think it may be a function of how imbalanced criticism against Israel is in some of the mainstream press; it's a complication of the intricateness of the situation that Israel is in. To me, I see the 'correct' thing repeated often, by people of every political stripe, including those that I otherwise disagree with vehemently quite often: There are no good moves. Every path leads to a bad choice. Israel can let its citizens die from rocket attacks, or it can attack-- as precisely as possible-- Hamas, knowing that Palestinian citizens will die. And that may radicalize a new generation of Palestinians-- but sitting and just taking rockets might radicalize a new generation of Israelis.

Meanwhile, the Arab nations, an Iran, have this beautiful gift of an external bit of politics they can use to pacify their own populations. Israel as boogeyman, Jew as blame-carrier. And so with both conscious and unconscious means, those nations push the conflict along, supplying Palestinians with arms, with propaganda, and not supplying them with citizenship, with a future, with a place to live. And not supplying their own citizenry with civic or religious liberty.

I'm very concerned by Israel's swing towards the right in terms of government, and I'm very disturbed by the fact that some people take the fact that there is no immediate solution and turn it into 'Therefore, any decisive solution is great, like bombing the shit out of Gaza or destroying the Dome of the Rock or all out-war between the West and the Islamic nations'.

It's all messy and ugly and nasty, and I think the biggest problem in discussing it is that people want to reduce it to something simple, they want to find the thread to pull that will unravel it, they want to find the ethically pure choice. There isn't one. It's sad and causes despair and despair causes deeply strange actions and statements.

But there is hope. It's not immediate, but hope often isn't. It's on the horizon. The Troubles were solved, and that actually was a situation with far more historical bad blood than Israel vs. the Muslim/Arab world.

Nobody at all has argued that Hamas has any righteousness in its actions. At most, people have said that the reprisal by Israel is part of a vicious cycle and serves no particular purpose. But nobody has insinuated righteousness belongs to Hamas.

Nobody at all has argued that Hamas has any righteousness in its actions. At most, people have said that the reprisal by Israel is part of a vicious cycle and serves no particular purpose. But nobody has insinuated righteousness belongs to Hamas.

Hence why I said I've only been getting bits and pieces. Honestly, I have to agree, it seems that at this point in the whole situation, there is no winning move. Only increasingly bad ones.

Seriously? The "real killer" may have been found after all these years?

The irony being if it is true, OJ could be retried. The allegation is he hired the dude to steal the earrings, which would mean he was on the hook for the felony murder that occurred during the crime he'd commissioned.

Why does it appear that President Barack Obama is supporting the Islamic Terrorists of Gaza instead of supporting Israel? For the same reason it has seemed for many years that Obama supports Iran’s nuclear weapons program rather than the right of Israel to defend itself against Iranian nuclear weapons.

Aren't you glad we live in this universe, where we don't have a villainous Muslim Brotherhood agent as President? Yeah, me too.

If they have so many casualties of their own, who should not be ignored, what's the point in hijacking photos of dead Jews, Syrians, and victims of other conflicts?

Probably because the cowards aren't anywhere near the scenes of the attacks. or they get a perverse pleasure out of claiming that the victims of Islamic attacks are the victims of Israeli ones. A lot of guilty people do that-- accuse others of the crimes they've committed.

Probably because the cowards aren't anywhere near the scenes of the attacks. or they get a perverse pleasure out of claiming that the victims of Islamic attacks are the victims of Israeli ones. A lot of guilty people do that-- accuse others of the crimes they've committed.

Also, a lot of these pictures are being retweeted over and over without checking the provenance. I do have to wonder about the mentality of the person who first introduced the pictures into the Twitter stream.

It just proves what I said before, that they are a criminal organization who want complete control of all commerce through their smuggling operations.

They're a mix of everything bad. You've got the power-hungry, the religious fanatics, the ultra-nationalists, the completely propagandized, the criminal, and the just plain psychos. It selects for the worst.

Though there's some confusion on that photo-- someone is claiming that the Arabic actually says that this is recent Israeli dead, so it's recycling an old photo to claim 'success' in killing Jews. Since I can't read Arabic, I dunno. Either way, it's an old photo recycling for shitty purposes.

For some, it could be laziness in not bothering to check what they're sending. A dead body is a dead body they may reason; it's the emotional impact of the carnage that is significant to them, not that it's accurate (aka fake but accurate). For others, coopting the imagery is akin to the coopting of the language (genocide, holocaust, etc., which were central to the establishment of Israel). All of it is propaganda.

And the fact remains that despite the so called grim milestones and intensified casualties in the Gaza operation, the number of Palestinian dead pales in comparison to what Syria's Assad does in one day. Yet world attention is focused like a laser on what Israel does, the diplomats are busy trying to force a ceasefire, and Assad's laughing all the way to Tehran knowing that Hamas is his (and Iran's useful idiots) in diverting attention from where more than 30,000 have already been killed in a civil war that threatens to truly destabilize the region.

Turkey's called on NATO for missile defense systems to protect against Syrian fire (memo to Turkey, but the system you're looking for is Israel's Iron Dome, not the Patriot system). Lebanon is continuing to be threatened by Syrian provocateurs. Likewise, so too is Jordan.

Egypt and Saudi Arabia are looking at Gaza through the prism of trying to limit Iranian/Syrian influence - not merely as an Arab-Israeli conflict so their efforts to host ceasefire talks/diplomatic action has to be taken with that in mind as well.

I don't know, since I don't read Arabic. This is second-hand information, but it wasn't uploaded with the claim in Arabic that it's recent Gazan dead.

Twitter has now completely lost its charm for me, at least as a source of news. There are moments when it is great, but after the false information being spread during Hurricane Sandy, and photos being mis-attributed and re-mis-attributed, I feel like you have to be very, very selective in who you actually believe.

This is actually something I was talking about with my friend Mike Rusch, otherwise known as 'weeddude'. He's a scrupulous journalistic professional, and he thinks that being a responsible, reliable dude on Twitter is going to be the new version of being a breaking-news journalist, basically.

Fugitives generally try to keep a low profile while running from the police, but murder suspect and tech entrepreneur John McAfee has done the opposite: He started a blog.

McAfee, founder of the eponymous anti-virus software company McAfee, launched “The Hinterland,” a blog detailing his experience hiding from authorities in Belize, on Saturday. He is the prime suspect in the murder of an American expat named Gregory Faull who was shot in his San Pedro Town home two weeks ago, Gizmodo reported.

Entitled “Introduction,” the first entry of McAfee’s “official blog” begins as follows:

“With lots of time on my hands and very little to do with it, I’ve been reflecting on the recent detour my life has taken. How did I end up as a murder suspect on the lam? The world press certainly has not helped. Autonomous and self-serving, the press does what it does best — sensationalize. And my character and the recent events of my life have been sensationalized to the max.”

McAfee then goes on to criticize Gizmodo writer Jeff Wise, who penned the article that discloses the former’s alleged involvement in Faull’s murder.

“I need to tell my story,” McAfee concludes, adding that he has limited and intermittent access to a computer and the Internet.

Since then, McAfee has posted a dozen entries. One post called “If I am captured” reveals that he has pre-written enough material to keep the blog going for “at least a year.” While McAfee focuses mainly on his legal troubles, he also writes about more mundane topics, such as Belizean culture.

A man claiming to be McAfee confirmed in an email to ABC News that “The Hinterland” is authentic.

Most people don't have the time to figure out who is the go-to person for a breaking news story, which is why so much crap will be spread during a breaking story (aside from the fact that many first impression/eyewitness reports turn out to be inaccurate anyways).

If you've been a reliable and responsible blogger in the past, you're likely to continue to be so as a twitterer (or whatever new form of instant news arises).

I just find it hilarious that the guy with the most journalistic ethics that I've ever seen has the twitter handle "weeddude". He's a really nice guy in person, too. Let my cousin interview him for her journalism class.

I just find it hilarious that the guy with the most journalistic ethics that I've ever seen has the twitter handle "weeddude". He's a really nice guy in person, too. Let my cousin interview him for her journalism class.

I just find it hilarious that the guy with the most journalistic ethics that I've ever seen has the twitter handle "weeddude". He's a really nice guy in person, too. Let my cousin interview him for her journalism class.

I've been following Weeddude since Benghazi. That guy is really on top of things.

Judd Philips, the founder of Tea Party Nation, has some hilarious batshittery at Whirled Nut Drooly explaining how Romney can STILL win the Presidency:

According to the 12th Amendment, for the Electoral College to be able to select the president, it must have a quorum of two-thirds of the states voting. If enough states refuse to participate, the Electoral College will not have a quorum. If the Electoral College does not have a quorum or otherwise cannot vote or decide, then the responsibility for selecting the president and vice president devolves to the Congress.

The House of Representatives selects the president and the Senate selects the vice president.

Mitt Romney carried 24 states. We need to have conservative activists from all over the nation contact the electors, the Republican Party and the secretary of state in all of these states and tell them not to participate in the Electoral College when it meets on Dec. 17.

If we can get 17 of those states (just over one-third) to refuse to participate, the Electoral College will have no quorum. Then, as the Constitution directs, the election goes to the House of Representatives.

That is how we can still pull this election out and make Mitt Romney president in January.

We need this concept shared with every tea party, liberty and patriotic group throughout the country. We have time to act, but we must pressure Republicans to do the right thing.

The irony being if it is true, OJ could be retried. The allegation is he hired the dude to steal the earrings, which would mean he was on the hook for the felony murder that occurred during the crime he'd commissioned.

But unless the guy has a signed receipt in OJ's handwriting what are the odds any sort of prosecution is going to get anywhere based pretty much solely on the word of a convicted serial killer?

Judd Philips, the founder of Tea Party Nation, has some hilarious batshittery at Whirled Nut Drooly explaining how Romney can STILL win the Presidency:

Wrong, wrong, wrong...

Somebody has misread and/or misunderstood the Twelfth Amendment. It only takes a simple majority of the Electoral votes to certify the Presidential election, there is no "quorum" requirement.

which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed;

The quorum this pea brain is talking about applies to the House of Representatives if they have to vote for the President because no majority exists among the Electoral vote.

But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice.

Fine red states, don't send in your electoral votes, the blue states will and Obama will still have a majority of the Elector's votes. God you wingnuts are dumb... :(

I think the Israelis really want to avoid a ground incursion if they can avoid it. They've been low on air targets to past 2 days or so, if they thought a ground incursion would accomplish anything they would have done it by now.

Morning all, Hope everyone is doing well. Any long time Lizards here? On my twitter, I'm getting pictures that claim to show the use of Syrian child victims of attacks being cited as from Gaza blaming Israel. Didn't LGF follow something like this in the past? I thought I saw a reference in one of the most recent threads, but wanted to check here to see if anyone knew, from a credible source, if this was in fact happening now. . .

Morning all, Hope everyone is doing well. Any long time Lizards here? On my twitter, I'm getting pictures that claim to show the use of Syrian child victims of attacks being cited as from Gaza blaming Israel. Didn't LGF follow something like this in the past? I thought I saw a reference in one of the most recent threads, but wanted to check here to see if anyone knew, from a credible source, if this was in fact happening now. . .

A),, longtime Lizard here (two weeks shy of 6 years)
B),,I don't 'do" Twitter
C) I can't recall what I had for dinner last night, let alone something that was followed here in the past!!

Sadly, I think Israel ends up with the short end of the stick and Hamas is the big winner. It's only going to encourage them to do this again as soon as they can. Israel needs some new trick and tactics. The threat of ground invasion was hollow, air power can only do so much.

Another question about credible sources. A loong time ago, I used to go to Honest Reporting for confirmation or stories of something called media bias (to be honest not even sure that term means anything anymore) against Israel, but have not been there in ages. Given the ideological changes that have occured in recent years in so many outlets, I ask is that still a credible source? The reasons I's asking are personal, in that I have to be on campus a lot in the next few weeks, and quite honestly I am so completely shredded mentally, I'm not sure where to look to get answers anymore.

And even her complaint ignores the fact that Cooper was talking about Hamas firing rockets from the vicinity of the journalism building in Gaza - the one that IDF has targeted on 3 occasions already.

It seems that Cooper and other journalists know, or should know, that they and their fellow journalists are being used as human shields around that building - and they really need to look sharp and stay safe because Hamas couldn't care who gets killed in their war against Israel. Cooper's comment indicates that he gets it. He understands that Hamas is attacking Israel from in and around where the journalists have holed up.

Photos are indeed being spread around Twitter that claim to be showing Palestinian casualties and are instead casualties from other conflicts (such as Syria), including Israelis killed in prior terror attacks or being treated by MDA in Israel during the current fighting. You have to take what you see on Twitter with a grain of salt and not everything is what it appears.

In other words - SS/DD. Twitter just makes those propaganda bits come around even faster and more insidious to respond to/with.

Morning all, Hope everyone is doing well. Any long time Lizards here? On my twitter, I'm getting pictures that claim to show the use of Syrian child victims of attacks being cited as from Gaza blaming Israel. Didn't LGF follow something like this in the past? I thought I saw a reference in one of the most recent threads, but wanted to check here to see if anyone knew, from a credible source, if this was in fact happening now. . .

Daylife was bought out and put behind a paywall, so there's no easy way to check the media photo streams like we used to do.

Santana and Kabir allegedly posted terrorist audio and video files on Facebook pages and communicated via Skype when Kabir was overseas, federal authorities said in the complaint.

Over the course of the past several months, Deleon, Santana and Gojali made numerous plans to join Kabir, according to the 77-page complaint, which lays out a portrait of young men dedicated to their beliefs -- and willing to kill for them.

Deleon said he had thought about killing and "wouldn't have a problem if it's, it's for Allah."

Lesson in realpolitik-Everyone remember the critics of "Star Wars" or Reagans anti missile research? How about all that opposition to the Raytheon ICBM interceptor? "Patriot did not work as advertised"?

If that money and effort had not been spent there would be no Iron Dome. If the critics of anti missile technology that called it impossible and a waste of money had had their way, many more would be dead, and the Gaza ground invasion would have been a certainty.

Iron Dome is now a proven lifesaver, and proof of concept that defensive missiles do not de stabilize a region, they just save lives. At this point, on both sides. Only the aggressor needs to fear anti missile technology.

Lesson in realpolitik-Everyone remember the critics of "Star Wars" or Reagans anti missile research? How about all that opposition to the Raytheon ICBM interceptor? "Patriot did not work as advertised"?

If that money and effort had not been spent there would be no Iron Dome.

There is absolutely zero relationship between Iron Dome and Star Wars.

A block away from where I am is a gun shop. A friend just told me that the reason there was a helicopter in the area and a bunch of traffic diverted onto the street out front was that an employee in that gun shop was handling a gun and it went off and shot a customer in the back. The victim was flown to the nearest trauma center, about 150 miles away. I hope he's OK.

Now it seems more dangerous to go to the post office (across the street from the gun shop) than to walk in the woods during deer season.

Not really true. Iron Dome used a good deal of the R&D work done on ABM systems.

Star Wars was the space-based stuff, the lasers and rail guns and shit. If you just mean SDI in general, then sure, but interceptor technology isn't new, and arguably Star Wars delayed interceptor technology by a lot since so much of the focus was on the Star Wars pie in the sky stuff that would never work.

Even the ground-based stuff is a very weak argument. Very little research is every truly wasted, but if they had actually focused on tactical interception from the get-go they'd be a lot farther ahead.

Where do you live? Just curious as to if it's open-carry or why in the world somebody was handling a loaded firearm. Especially if you're an employee at the shop.

The problem with dumb people and firearms is that they always seem to accidentally shoot somebody else and not themselves.

New Mexico. It's open-carry, and concealed with a permit. I've seen signs on the door of the shop warning customers not to ever bring in a loaded weapon. And I know you're always supposed to handle a weapon as though it's loaded. But there's always the stupid.

Under the SDIO's Innovative Sciences and Technology Office, headed by physicist and engineer Dr. James Ionson,[5] the investment was predominantly made in basic research at national laboratories, universities, and in industry, and these programs have continued to be key sources of funding for top research scientists in the fields of high-energy physics, supercomputing/computation, advanced materials, and many other critical science and engineering disciplines: funding which indirectly supports other research work by top scientists, and which would be politically impossible to fund outside of the defense budget environment.

That's untrue. The strategy is the same. The concept of anti missile defense is the same. And the R&D work certainly carried forward, as aerospace technology always rests on past advances.

Sorry anti missile defense critics-you were wrong.

Yeah, because Israel is using lasers in space to shoot down mortar rounds.

SDI did not start the concept of anti-missile defense. That was Project Nike.

I think you're just confused about what critics were criticizing and why. I think you're also making the mistake that just because research led to another discovery later, that initial research was efficient.

Hey, I support giving shitloads of money to engineers and high energy physicists and the rest.

But we don't, and we won't, have a working Star Wars system. If we had spent the money directly on figuring out tactical missile interception rather than ICBM, we'd have a much better version of Iron Dome now. Instead, the research has to be adapted.

But I totally am on board with just shoving money at physicists and material engineers and shit. I love that. And arguably fantasy projects that have no real chance of coming true set a nicely high bar. But we'd have a much better missile defense system now if they had focused on tactical missile defense from the start, rather than anti-ICBM defense.

I can picture him holing up in his house and somewhat losing his mind, actually pretending he's President, holding "intelligence briefings" with stuffed animals, hiring neighborhood kids as "secret service" and refusing to answer to anything besides "Mr. President" or "President Romney".

Lesson in realpolitik-Everyone remember the critics of "Star Wars" or Reagans anti missile research? How about all that opposition to the Raytheon ICBM interceptor? "Patriot did not work as advertised"?

If that money and effort had not been spent there would be no Iron Dome.

Sorry but that's complete and utter bullshit. Iron Dome is the simple linear successor to the Patriot missile system, active since 1981. Star Wars was supposed to be space based, used energy weapons and orbiting "brilliant pebbles." The intercept speeds involved were orders of magnitude greater than anything Iron Dome will ever be asked to deal with. A Qassam rocket moves at 200 meters per second, less than Mach 1. A typical incoming ICBM is moving at around Mach 23. That problem still hasn't been reliably solved. Even the US missile defense interceptors at Vandenberg game their tests by spin stabilizing and putting transponders on all their targets. We're learning more about how to deliberately run two of our own missiles into each other than duplicating an enemy ICBM launch with decoys, etc.

My theory is that Endor had some of the most primo weed in existence, and the stormtroopers and AT-AT drivers etc. there were just blazed out of their mind, thus managing to lose a battle to corpulent wombats.

Hey, I support giving shitloads of money to engineers and high energy physicists and the rest.

But we don't, and we won't, have a working Star Wars system. If we had spent the money directly on figuring out tactical missile interception rather than ICBM, we'd have a much better version of Iron Dome now. Instead, the research has to be adapted.

But I totally am on board with just shoving money at physicists and material engineers and shit. I love that. And arguably fantasy projects that have no real chance of coming true set a nicely high bar. But we'd have a much better missile defense system now if they had focused on tactical missile defense from the start, rather than anti-ICBM defense.

but back in the 1980's the big threat was seen to be Soviet ICBMs. So that's where the research dollars went, into stopping that threat. Later, when other threats took priority, monies were channeled towards dealing with those.

You moved my goalposts again. I never said efficient. SDI was a spectrum of technologies, critics linchpin their argument on the most difficult technologies, and were dead wrong about kinetic hit to kill being impossible. Lasers don't work YET. They will.

SDI, later expanded under Clinton resulted in functional defensive missiles good enough to hit warheads or satellites.

NIKE (A program I researched for various reasons including a photo shoot at an old installation) was about intercepting incoming bombers, not ICBM warheads. It predates the ICBM age. In fact ICBM (then later multi warhead or MIRV) is why in part NIKE was abandoned as obsolete. It was an atom bomb on a missile designed to take out multiple bombers at a stroke.

Folks we have a limited working system in place. The concept of anti missile interception by a missile was widely called impossible. It isn't. Arguing it's not star wars is using a critics phrase to define it, unfair at best.

And I disagree with basing the criticism on the technology at all. What I point out is the concept once called impossible is in fact possible. It's limited, it's not perfect but we now have a proof of concept like we never had before.

For the record, the writer is a Canadian who does not and has not ever lived in America.

"When that New York SCREWBALL Mayor (Bloomberg) legislated the size of soft drinks FREE PEOPLE could NOT buy, who accepted HIS decision to take away THEIR Freedom, it said all that needed to be said about how unimportant FREEDOM means to most people."

but back in the 1980's the big threat was seen to be Soviet ICBMs. So that's where the research dollars went, into stopping that threat.

Even then, we knew that Star Wars would never work. The basic problems with it existed from the start: Countermeasure technology would always be ahead of it, and the system could never really be tested.

The only possible used of anti-ICBM technology is if one errant missile gets launched. We might then have a slim chance of intercepting it. In any real attack: never, ever would we have a chance of intercepting a significant number.

It was always a fools errand. That doesn't mean it can't produce great science and research. You can get a long way trying to solve the impossible in science. But that doesn't mean that the goal isn't impossible, or that you couldn't have gotten somewhere else realistic with the same expenditure.

BTW, Iron Dome has to do some things that SDI wasn't intended to deal with - that is short period launch, acquisition, target, and destroy because of the range and time constraints of shooting down short range missiles/mortars.

While the speeds of mortars and kassams (or any of the other missiles/rockets in Hamas' arsenal) is nothing like that of an approaching ballistic missile trajectory, the time involved is far more compressed. You have seconds to acquire the target versus several minutes following launch of an ICBM to acquire the target.

Target acquisition is another issue. ICBM has a specific identifying trait - the large energy signature that can be picked up on infrared and is easily identifiable. The energy signatures for kassams, let alone mortars is far smaller and more difficult to pick out - especially in an urban environment.

It's amazing that Iron Dome works as well as is currently being indicated (and as with the Patriots during Desert Storm, the final tally will likely be lower than advertised but still impressive nonetheless).

The only thing that Iron Dome really has in common with SDI is that both are intended to deal with an inbound missile threat.

If a country operated a missile defense system in depth, you'd have CIWS, followed by Iron Dome, then Patriot. SDI would have supplemented that Patriot with a system that goes after the missiles in the launch phase as well as in midflight while Patriot goes after the inbound target in the terminal phase.

Disagree. My point is the basic concept (not particular tech) that was called impossible. The wisdom of such a system varies by location and timing. Euorpe? Dodgy. Alaska? Vandenberg? Perfectly appropriate.

But IMO stopping incoming warheads with advanced tech is a fine idea. On that point, I find the critics to be in error. Iron Dome with it's limitation validates the concept.

Even then, we knew that Star Wars would never work. The basic problems with it existed from the start: Countermeasure technology would always be ahead of it, and the system could never really be tested.

The only possible used of anti-ICBM technology is if one errant missile gets launched. We might then have a slim chance of intercepting it. In any real attack: never, ever would we have a chance of intercepting a significant number.

It was always a fools errand. That doesn't mean it can't produce great science and research. You can get a long way trying to solve the impossible in science. But that doesn't mean that the goal isn't impossible, or that you couldn't have gotten somewhere else realistic with the same expenditure.

But the Soviet Union ended up thinking we might well be able to pull it off (Putin still does think that) and the resultant fear helped drive Gorbachev to the negotiation table.

Even then, we knew that Star Wars would never work. The basic problems with it existed from the start: Countermeasure technology would always be ahead of it, and the system could never really be tested.

The only possible used of anti-ICBM technology is if one errant missile gets launched. We might then have a slim chance of intercepting it. In any real attack: never, ever would we have a chance of intercepting a significant number.

It was always a fools errand. That doesn't mean it can't produce great science and research. You can get a long way trying to solve the impossible in science. But that doesn't mean that the goal isn't impossible, or that you couldn't have gotten somewhere else realistic with the same expenditure.

Adding this to the long list of people who called certain technologies impossible that were later proven wrong. BTW lasers in space were set aside because of an agreement to not weaponize space. That agreement may fall and of course it's obvious lasers work better without an atmosphere to cut through first.

But the Soviet Union ended up thinking we might well be able to pull it off (Putin still does think that) and the resultant fear helped drive Gorbachev to the negotiation table.

Gorbachev asked his science adviser if SDI could work. His adviser said no, they could easily build countermeasures and overwhelm it with numbers. This was correct. Sadly, the USSR had a better grasp on the science of it than us.

However, it was still a useful political weapon because ordinary people didn't really understand it wasn't possible, so it did put pressure on Gorbachev. And maybe Gorbachev didn't trust Soviet scientists, because Soviet science had a band tendency to tell the leadership what they though the leadership wanted to know.

One interesting thing will be to see how anti-rocket systems fare if one of them is even faced with a foe who has access to Anti-Radiation Missiles (ARMs). That sort of threat could majorly degrade an anti-missile system's effectiveness.

Gorbachev asked his science adviser if SDI could work. His adviser said no, they could easily build countermeasures and overwhelm it with numbers. This was correct. Sadly, the USSR had a better grasp on the science of it than us.

However, it was still a useful political weapon because ordinary people didn't really understand it wasn't possible, so it did put pressure on Gorbachev. And maybe Gorbachev didn't trust Soviet scientists, because Soviet science had a band tendency to tell the leadership what they though the leadership wanted to know.

It was also that Gorbachev thought, correctly, that his R&D people were self-serving and would push to build new ICBMs to justify their positions and agency budgets.

Thankfully, however it went, things did cool down starting with the signing of the IRBM Treaty in 1987. The elimination of the Pershing IIs and SS-20s was the arms-control success the left had said Reagan would never embrace. But Reagan's belief in the 'Zero Option' he articulated proved sincere.

Then it seems like you don't understand the concepts. It's like saying that developing skill hitting a baseball makes you better at hockey because they both involve hitting things with sticks.

Please try not to confuse our differing views with a lack of understanding on my part. You had NIKE wrong. You had to admit that yes certain tech carried forward from SDI, again later (thankfully) furthered by the Clinton administration. Investments continue because of the validity of the concept.

Stopping thousands of warheads is impossible. How does that make stopping some a bad idea? (Rhetorical it does not) The money argument is the usual lives vs defense costs argument. Some day more nations will have ICBM. Will they have thousands? Prolly not.

I've never had reason to consider a vacation in Branson. Until now. That would be the world's first twisting wooden coaster - it will do a double barrel roll among its other tricks (world's steepest, and 2d fastest wooden coaster in the world).

Please try not to confuse our differing views with a lack of understanding on my part.

You seem to think we have a working ICBM interception system. We don't. You seem to think there is a similarity in intercepting an ICBM and intercepting a mortar round. Let me be clear: There's about as much similarity as there is between an ICBM and a mortar round.

Stopping thousands of warheads is impossible. How does that make stopping some a bad idea?

Because they're nuclear warheads, and stopping some will not significantly lower the damage given sufficient numbers, which the Soviets had. In addition, we don't have any reason to believe we could even stop some.

Oh, and I didn't have Nike wrong. It was developed for bombers, but adapted for missiles. The Nike Hercules was adapted to be able to hit cruise missiles.

According to Russia the missile is designed to be immune to any current or planned U.S. missile defense system.[19] It is claimed to be capable of making evasive maneuvers to avoid a kill by terminal phase interceptors, and carries targeting countermeasures and decoys. It is shielded against radiation, EMP, nuclear explosions at distances over 500 meters, and is designed to survive a hit from any laser technology.[20]

Dean Chambers, the founder of UnSkewedPolls.com, launched a new website last week alleging that President Barack Obama did not legitimately carry Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Florida, but instead won those states thanks to voter fraud.

In fact, the CIA's own top specialist in strategic nuclear programs testified in 2000 that "[m]any countries, such as North Korea [and] Iran ... probably would rely initially on readily available technology ... to develop penetration aids and countermeasures. These countries could develop countermeasures based on these technologies by the time they flight test their missiles."

Unfortunately, warnings of such fatal weaknesses were not heeded in designing the NATO missile defense system. Now, two government-sponsored scientific studies have shown that the missile defense system being planned to protect the United States and Europe is fundamentally flawed and will not work under combat conditions. As Philip Coyle, who was associate director for national security and international affairs in the Obama administration's Office of Science and Technology Policy, recently put it, the program is "chasing scientific dead ends, unworkable concepts and a flawed overall architecture."

I was directed to the site by the Frum blog. Do Not Touch A Button. Hitting one of his gave me a blast of heavy gay and straight porn. The place is probably badly infected. (Did I mention I love Linux?)

The Russians say many things that aren't true, Frank. They spent the whole of the 1980's claiming that their MiG-29 could defeat the US F-15 Eagle, but every engagement between the two types has ended in a lopsided victory for the F-15.

What are you talking about? We don't have a working ICBM interception system. Why are you trying to claim we do?

Oh? Not so. Alaska, It can stop one or two. it is officially in service. I hope we get more of them. It's called the EKV.

Current counter-ICBM systems

There are only two systems in the world that can intercept ICBMs. Besides them, many smaller systems exist (tactical ABMs), that generally cannot intercept intercontinental strategic missiles, even if within range—an incoming ICBM simply moves too fast for these systems.

The Russian A-35 anti-ballistic missile system for defense of Moscow was established in 1971, has been improved since, and is still active. Presently it is called A-135 and it uses two missile types, Gorgon and Gazelle. They are both armed with nuclear warheads.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]The U.S. Ground-Based Midcourse Defense (GMD; previously known as National Missile Defense – NMD) system has recently reached initial operational capability. Instead of using an explosive charge, it launches a kinetic projectile. The George W. Bush administration accelerated development and deployment of a system proposed in 1998 by the Clinton administration. The system is a dual purpose test and interception facility in Alaska, and in 2006 was operational with a few interceptor missiles. The Alaska site provides more protection against North Korean missiles or launches from Russia or China, but is likely less effective against missiles launched from the Middle East. President Bush referenced the 9/11 attacks and the proliferation of ballistic missiles as reasons for missile defense. The current GMD system has the more limited goal of shielding against a limited attack by a rogue state.

I was directed to the site by the Frum blog. Do Not Touch A Button. Hitting one of his gave me a blast of heavy gay and straight porn. The place is probably badly infected. (Did I mention I love Linux?)

The gay porn dump has been added to allow closeted evangelicals to perform their 'research'.

Someone needs to ask Mr. Chambers if the Republican Governors and Secretarys of State of the four states (Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia) were all part of this "vote-fraud conspiracy" that he's claiming.

The Russians say many things that aren't true, Frank. They spent the whole of the 1980's claiming that their MiG-29 could defeat the US F-15 Eagle, but every engagement between the two types has ended in a lopsided victory for the F-15.

All of these engagements have also been against middle eastern pilots from air forces whose training regimens could charitably be described as 'naive'.

It has a 50% success rate in tests where it already knows the missile is coming, there are no countermeasures used by the ICBM at all, and the dice are otherwise loaded in its favor. I hope we don't waste more money on them.

I don't think of something that works 50% of the time under absolutely optimal, best-case scenario conditions to be 'working'. At best, I'd call that 'sometimes working, if everything goes absolutely right and you don't make the test too challenging'. And it failed its last test.

Do you get that an ICBM and a mortar round are not comparable, and defenses against them are not comparable?

Do you get that the Nike Hercules was indeed an anti-missile intercept platform?

Um... without taking sides, I do wish to observe that the Russians are liable to claim very nice things about their weapons systems.

Nobody in the Pentagon is dismissing the claims. Because the technology to do it is trivial. All they did was harden the warhead, put thrusters on it for inbound phase maneuverability and give it a mirror polish.

Someone needs to ask Mr. Chambers if the Republican Governors and Secretarys of State of the four states (Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia) were all part of this "vote-fraud conspiracy" that he's claiming.

It has a 50% success rate in tests where it already knows the missile is coming, there are no countermeasures used by the ICBM at all, and the dice are otherwise loaded in its favor. I hope we don't waste more money on them.

I don't think of something that works 50% of the time under absolutely optimal, best-case scenario conditions to be 'working'. At best, I'd call that 'sometimes working, if everything goes absolutely right and you don't make the test too challenging'. And it failed its last test.

Do you get that an ICBM and a mortar round are not comparable, and defenses against them are not comparable?

Do you get that the Nike Hercules was indeed an anti-missile intercept platform?

With the option to arm the thing with a ~25 kiloton warhead...
Yeah, nuclear anti-missile missiles FTW!
/

I hate to argue with such a good host as yourself. The CIA has one view, fair enough. Several Presidents including Clinton and Obama conclude it's worth continuing the work. I agree with them. Conclusions vary, technology moves ahead making the formerly impossible merely difficult then one day routine.

Without getting into this pissing contest, I'll just surmise that if it ever comes down to actually needing these types of defense...who gives a damn. The world will be utterly screwed anyway if it comes to everybody lobbing nuclear missiles at each other.

Might as well have the school children hide under their desks while we're at it.

Nobody in the Pentagon is dismissing the claims. Because the technology to do it is trivial. All they did was harden the warhead, put thrusters on it for inbound phase maneuverability and give it a mirror polish.

A Polish university researcher driven by nationalistic and anti-Semitic hatred was arrested for planning to detonate a four-ton bomb in front of the Parliament building in Warsaw with the president, prime minister, government ministers and lawmakers inside, authorities said Tuesday.

Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the suspect and his plot were discovered as investigators looked into Polish links to the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik. Polish security officials have said that Breivik bought small amounts of material for his bomb-making in Poland.

The foiled attack comes as the far-right movement appears to be growing in Poland, and as tensions simmer between Tusk's center-right government and its main rival, the conservative Law and Justice party led by Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

but a decent counter can still have a strong impact, if only by forcing the enemy to throw far more missiles at a given target in order to ensure a kill.

It's ultimately not good for an enemy with thousands of missiles who aims to annihilate you, but against a foe with 100 missiles, interceptors might prove very useful indeed.

No, they wouldn't. Anyone who's building 100 missiles will build them with countermeasure tech that can defeat your current level of sophistication. The only possible way that wouldn't happen is if we were able to develop countermeasure technology in secret, and that is basically impossible. Maybe once we can fly out behind the dark side of the moon.

I don't get why this is such a lodestone for armamentophiles. Is it a holdover from the terror of the Cold War? I remember being scared of nuclear war and I remember SDI seeming like a soothing idea.

Okay, SDI will work if we're attacked by incredibly stupid enemies, everything happens to be working exactly right that day, and they launch an ICBM at us rather than bringing it in on board a cargo ship or ocean liner or whatever and setting it off in the harbor. As long as everything goes right and our enemies are blithering idiots, we have about a 50% chance of success.

It has a 50% success rate in tests where it already knows the missile is coming, there are no countermeasures used by the ICBM at all, and the dice are otherwise loaded in its favor. I hope we don't waste more money on them.

I don't think of something that works 50% of the time under absolutely optimal, best-case scenario conditions to be 'working'. At best, I'd call that 'sometimes working, if everything goes absolutely right and you don't make the test too challenging'. And it failed its last test.

Do you get that an ICBM and a mortar round are not comparable, and defenses against them are not comparable?

Do you get that the Nike Hercules was indeed an anti-missile intercept platform?

50% is a work in progress.

And Nike Hercules was for bombers. How many links would you like?
[Link: alpha.fdu.edu...]

The Nike Mission

During the first decade of the Cold War, the Soviet Union began to develop a series of long-range bomber aircraft, capable of reaching targets within the continental United States. The potential threat posed by such aircraft became much more serious when, in 1949, the Russians exploded their first atomic bomb.

The perception that the Soviet Union might be capable of constructing a sizable fleet of long-range, nuclear-armed bomber aircraft capable of reaching the continental United States provided motivation to rapidly develop and deploy the Nike system to defend major U.S. population centers and other vital targets. The outbreak of hostilities in Korea, provided a further impetus to this deployment.

The mission of Nike within the continental U.S was to act as a "last ditch" line of air defense for selected areas. The Nike system would have been utilized in the event that the Air Force's long-range fighter-interceptor aircraft had failed to destroy any attacking bombers at a greater distance from their intended targets.

And Nike Hercules was for bombers. How many links would you like?
[Link: alpha.fdu.edu...]

Did you seriously just not fucking read that? You are starting to piss me off and I never get pissed off.

Work on a successor to the first Nike missile, the Nike Ajax, was initiated well before the first Ajax missiles were deployed at tactical sites across the nation. Two major considerations drove the development of the this second-generation Nike missile. The first was a requirement to produce a missile with improved speed, range and altitude capabilities to defend against a new generation of faster and smaller aerial targets, in particular, supersonic aircraft and cruise missiles. The second requirement was the desire to arm this new missile with a powerful atomic warhead to ensure destruction of the target aircraft and the destruction of disabling of any nuclear weapons it carried.

We ain't talking about mortars here.
We're talking about multi-megaton warheads. The damage inflicted by just one will be a catastrophic and possibly unrecoverable event. And with a 50% interception success rate at optimal conditions, the USA would cease to exist.

Interesting tech. And not a fun propellant mix to keep and maintain on a submarine.

No, indeed. Hydrogen peroxide proved very dangerous when nations tried to use it as fuel in order to produce Air-Independant Propulsion (AIP) systems for submarines. It reminds me even more of the volatile propellents used in the WWII German Me-163 Komet.

And Nike Hercules was for bombers. How many links would you like?
[Link: alpha.fdu.edu...]

It was also for missiles:

The Nike-Hercules system, a follow-up to the Nike-Ajax missile, was developed during the Cold War to destroy enemy bombers and enemy bomber formations, as well as serve as an anti-ballistic missile system.

I hate to argue with such a good host as yourself. The CIA has one view, fair enough. Several Presidents including Clinton and Obama conclude it's worth continuing the work. I agree with them. Conclusions vary, technology moves ahead making the formerly impossible merely difficult then one day routine.

They are keeping some aspects of it going, as even with failure in practice there are things that can be learned, and applied to other areas.
That being said, there were SDI concepts (I'm looking at you, satellite-based missile defense systems) that current technology is both too costly and too unreliable, both in its own failure rate, as well as easily countermeasured to even be considered for anything beyond prototyping, much less mass-deployment.

Then it seems like you don't understand the concepts. It's like saying that developing skill hitting a baseball makes you better at hockey because they both involve hitting things with sticks.

And using your same analogy, to defeat that hitter you just throw 50 dud balls at the batter at once with only one or two real balls. Star Wars tech is VERY easy to defeat. ICBMs are very fast to get to traveling velocity, making them hard to get in that short time before hitting cruising trajectory. At cruise trajectory they can deploy very cheap decoys to confuse the SDI system. So that kinda leaves the terminal dive to the target to hopefully get the missile, namely one chance.

You equated cruise missiles with ICBM? Nice dodge almost as good as the new Russian warheads.

What I like about this is not that it's a lie-- which it is-- but that you're beclowning your own argument here. You're mocking the idea that cruise missiles are like ICBMs, and yet claiming anti-ICBM technology is useful in shooting down conventional missiles. It's one of the best self-ownings I've seen in a long time.

For the record, this is what I said:

SDI did not start the concept of anti-missile defense. That was Project Nike.

Notice I didn't say ICBMs, because I didn't mean ICBMs. I said what I meant: Project Nike started the idea of anti-missile defense. If you want to get really, really, really particular, the British fooled around with stuff to try to intercept V1s and V2s, but it didn't really get anywhere.

But do you understand how, in your attempt to accuse me of spinning, you just destroyed your own argument by mocking the idea of cruise missiles and ICBMs being similar?