Reactions To Victory Over Stoke

October 22, 2012

1. Ahead of kick-off I said that Stoke at home was a fixture United had to be winning, particularly with Chelsea making light work of the likes of Arsenal and Spurs away already this season. To have lost two games already is fairly disappointing but thankfully Chelsea are the only side to make us pay for this, so far. At the start of the season if you had told me we had this good a chance to win the title, I’d have taken those odds, regardless of where they were being placed.

2. I’m wondering if maybe at the start of our next game we should just boot the ball in to our own net from kick-off just to get it out of the way. Saturday was the seventh time out of eleven games that we had fallen behind this season and the fourth time (third time at home) we have conceded twice. That is a shocking defensive record. After going a goal down after Wayne Rooney scored an own goal (why Rooney, at 5ft 9in was marking Ryan Shawcross, 6ft 3in, is beyond me), David de Gea kept us in the game with an excellent near post stop from a Charlie Adam shot and again from Walters, who probably should have done better. Defensively we looked shaky whenever we were attacked and that has got to be a real concern. If a midfield as weak as Stoke’s have no problem getting the ball from the half way line to our penalty area at Old Trafford, what will happen when we face a side of real quality? Their second goal put them back in the game for a while and that is a ridiculous position to be in if you’ve scored three goals at home against Stoke. Evra lost possession when attacking and Michael Kightly just ran through our defence. We’ll be facing the likes of Juan Mata and Santi Cazorla soon enough. Frightening.

3. On the attack we are looking good though and whilst we shouldn’t need to score three or four times to beat Stoke, it’s nice to see all our strikers getting a goal. Robin van Persie provided a wicked cross for Rooney’s first and delivered the corner for his second. A few weeks ago Van Persie claimed he wanted to be doing more for the team, not just scoring goals, so it’s great to see him providing as well as scoring. With United playing without wingers more regularly than ever before, it’s encouraging to see our strikers putting in decent crosses. Rooney put in the ball for Danny Welbeck’s header, where he managed to get out from between three Stoke defenders to get a touch on it. That doesn’t change the fact Welbz should have had a hattrick again, with chances being put on a plate for him, and him still managing to scuff one and blast the other miles over the bar. This is then contrasted with an excellent effort from 20 yards out which he curled just on to the wrong side of the cross bar. He needs more confidence in front of goal but you’d hope training alongside Van Persie and Rooney will bring that out of him.

4. The Stoke fans still managed to add to the list of reasons to dislike them when one of their loudest moments of the game came after Van Persie was floored with a head injury. They were actually cheering and jumping up and down as he lay on the deck, holding his head, after being clattered. The same reaction no doubt would have been brought out if any of our players had been hurt. You’ve got to wonder what goes through the head of these small-minded people.

5. Paul Scholes had yet another quietly brilliant game, getting on with his business without much fuss, and spraying the ball about. Tom Cleverley had two games during the International break which probably lead to his exclusion for Stoke. Cleverley will play midweek, as well as Kagawa, and you imagine Scholes will return to partner Carrick for next weekend’s trip to Stamford Bridge.

6. Patrice Evra has been improving over recent weeks and Rafael continued to play as well as he has done all season. It’s great to see them getting forward and helping with the attack. Evra running forward with the ball occurred in the lead up to two of the goals. It would be nice to see a bit more urgency from him to get back when he is tackled further up the pitch but I still enjoy seeing our full backs getting forward. There were opportunities for both Jonny Evans and Rio Ferdinand to support the attack on Saturday too and the former was unlucky not to score in the second half.

7. All in all, a good enough three points, although the message to Ferguson should be loud and clear. There needs to be better protection for our defence and that needs to be addressed. Eight clubs have a better defensive record than us this season and that includes the likes of West Ham, West Brom and Sunderland. Alarm bells should be ringing. Thankfully, we’ve scored more goals than anyone else this season but we can’t keep relying on outscoring the opposition once we’ve conceded a goal or two. Things need to tighten up at the back and quickly. A defeat to Chelsea at the weekend would see us fall seven points behind and whilst nothing is insurmountable at this stage in the season, I’d rather we didn’t have such a mountain to climb by the end of October.

52 Comments

overall a good performance but we're still a tad shaky at the back and seem to need a goal against us to kick start our game. Still have players to come back from injury and as long as we keep getting the points until xmas we will be in a strong position for the start of the new year where we are "traditionally stronger"

With our attack i honestly see no reason why we can't continue to outscore opposition think that was the point of signing RVP.Not arguing we need to tighten up but see no reason why Utd won't continue to outscore opponents have one of the best strike forces in the world and think there's a big possibility RVP and Rooney will be one two in scoring

Marq that was a case of missed chances more than anything else and of course Utd are not going to outscore opponents 100% of the time but considering a lot of fans don't even think the team is playing well yet still ave 2.62 goals a game it's safe to assume that number should go up,So conceding the first goal is not really a major issue imo.

Should also point out and i did mention this before the Spurs game the law of aves was due to catch up considering Spurs hadn't beaten Utd in 22 games.
Utd are a offensive juggernaut that is the teams strength so obviously that will lead to a more open type of game and give up more chances,for one i'm fucking loving it at least the team isn't playing scared like we did at City last year

Agree, wholeheartedly with point 6, regarding Evra. I find it odd, how some people blamed him for Stoke's second goal, when knightly had to beat three of our players to score. Ridiculous. I'd say both wing backs have put in a solid shift. People talk about Baines and Cole being better than Evra atm, and I find that hard to understand. I've watched Chelsea plenty this year, Cole gets beaten far MORE frequently than Evra does. Those moments are not highlighted because luckily for him the opposition team do not make use of those chances. I especially remember his performance against Poland, it was shockingly bad, yet he gets away with minimal criticism. ~I understand that Pat hasn't been on top form for a while although he is regaining his form, but I can not agree with the people who think Cole and Baines have been better. Obviously they haven't watched Everton and Chelsea enough.

We are conceding far too many, but as bad as this sounds I'd rather we played entertaining football in which we win 5-2, then narrow wins. ;) Also, there's a sense of arrogance about the team that's both entertaining and worrying. It's like 'Whatevz, we'll score more- in fact here, a two nill lead, watch us score 4 now.'

RVP and Rooney, upfront is too much for me to handle. We are spoilt for talent in strike.

Can't wait for Tuesday, Shinji and Clevez with Rooney and co should be interesting.

Afternoon ROM
A great win in the end but really worrying, we're shipping in a lot of soft goals, that's my biggest concern.
But happy we still menage to out score opposition, stoke is a very, very defensive team that's their strength and they haven't conceded a lot this season and hadn't conceded 4 in a single game before saturday, if I'm not mistaken
So its really pleasing seeing us score 4 and still create lot more chances, its rare they were unlucky against the chavs at the bridge they should of got a draw atleast...

Slow reaction, I was already looking forward to the game vs braga, jeez ;)

great reactions scott, perhaps we can add the point about valencia looking to be back at his best, soon not now. Tony V was stretching the stoke defence, something we've been missing. Could outscoring be fergie's tactic this season?

So it looks like it might be scholesy and carrick agst the blues, which worries me. quick ramires and strong mikel dont bode well!

but lets not get ahead of ourselves, 3 pts at home job indeed well done.

Thought the attack was class. All 3 of our forwards getting goals, and all classy goals at that.
Welbeck was probably unlucky to not have a couple more and how Evans didn't finish is just not to be believed.
Something to point out is our Corners and Crosses have become lethal weapons again. Don't recall many corner goals last year, with Nani and Giggs almost never getting the ball in. Problem solved with Robin and Valencia and Rooney.

The concerns about our defense continue. I due appreciate the lads trying to hold a higher line, but doing so requires CBs with certain amount of speed. Rio, blessim, doesn't fit that bill. Not blaming him for the goals but it contributes. Also thought former red Ryan Shawcross was top class. Would love to get him back in our system. Can see Pullis won't be best pleased with that idea.

@the truth
The reason evra is being targeted is due to his positional sense at times, and is often caught out of position not the other way around

And fans are spot on if they bash him, he hasn't been the same him for along time now, only the last couple of games that he brought on the glimpse of his old self, he's lost a yard of payed and doesn't trackback when dispossessed

I really hope we don't line up with Carrick and Scholes next week at the Bridge. Energy will be desperately needed.

As for the Stoke game, I am sure it made for an entertaining game, but we need to defend a lot better. Winning 3-2 or 4-2 against Spurs or Newcastle at OT is fine. Conceding twice against the likes of Fulham and Stoke at OT shows there's a problem that needs to be addressed immediately.

Costas,
Agree about the defense. Especially in the CL! We just can't be giving away goals at home. Attack is definitely sorted. Alot of questions to be asked about the defense. News that Vidic is ahead of schedule are very welcome indeed. ;)

Against Chelsea we MUST give our defense protection Scholes MUST NOT start at Chelsea. Despite the fact that he remains one of the best passers in the game, his effort on the defensive end of things is not good and this is not his fault as he is more than 35 years old and should be at home relaxing with his family. In fact I'd start Fletcher and Anderson ahead of Carrick and Scholes They are more mobile and a re much better tacklers as these will be needed more than ever next week.

This match is quite good to watch considering our offensive force has been much better and entertaining to watch. Though we still waste some good chances, but at least the offensive is putting down opponents. It is wonderful that Rooney-RVP-Welbeck formation is working very well. This is something everyone has been hoping for.

United defensive errors and problems maybe the larger area SAF need to address. If United still have problem coping with this problem by next year, it would be best for SAF to find new defensive players. Not sure how long United could last with this problem and it might be worse if United does not stop Chelsea in the clash between both teams. I do hope United is able to cope with this problem and regain the first place or closing the gap by Christmas, or else this year it would be very likely that Chelsea grabbing the PL (if they maintain their performance).

We won't outscore the opposition everyday so the defence simply needs to tighten up.
Part of the blame though goes to the midfielders particularly playing a defensive role.
Scholes could be there till he's 70 spraying the ball around but he doesn't have the legs
to close players and spaces down and when this doesn't happen players will get free
runs towards our penalty area. With our defensive line-up looking quite shaky this means
chances for the opposition. I can't see it getting much better very soon with Vidic, Smalling
and Jones all waiting to come back injury but it'll take them half a dozen games to find their
rhythm and until then and providing we have no more injurues we're going to keep conceding.

Have you guys heard the news that both rio and evra will sit out bragas match tomorrow? http://t.co/FLOniTBK if true then good, the reason behind it might be because of this weekends blockbuster vs chavs, but if scholes and carrick do not play tomorrow i really hope its for different reasons, cause I wouldn't like to see us being overrun at the bridge, chelsea has proven handful this season and their strength is their diamond midfield hopefully fergie will try and match that

"and you imagine Scholes will return to partner Carrick for next weekend’s trip to Stamford Bridge".... WHOA Scott, easy there, you really expect to see Scholes & Carrick as central midfielders against Chelski away? I both hope and expect SAF to have more sense than that...

Proverb - Smalling is still not fit according to the boss. Expect Carrick to play at centre half.

Bit harsh to say Welbeck should have had a hat trick. 'Could' have with a bit more luck perhaps. His best effort hit the bar while he was unlucky not to convert his second half chance, which perhaps only Chicarito of our current strikers would have got as near to. The other two efforts required the different variables required to score a goal to unfold perfectly - ie: not so close marking from Shawcross, ball falling on stronger foot after quick one-two and movement off the ball etc: Danny's making lot of his chances for himself is what I'm trying to say and he'll get his fair share.

You cannot say Utd will automatically struggle against the likes of Mata and Cazorla. Stoke kept Chelsea out for 85 minutes at Stamford Bridge against their star studded midfield, where as we cut through them at will at times. No game is ever the same and I'm sure Utd players, while publicly saying that preparing to play the likes of Stoke is not that different from preparing to play Chelsea, would approach a game against Chelsea in a different mental and physical manner. Expect the boys to be right up for it on Sunday in both respects.

I would not start with Scholes in any away game to be honest, particularly in a two man midfield. It's not his fault but he can't get around the pitch, which is what we'll need at the Bridge. Scholes is suited now for European games and coming on when a game is won or when the boss needs more ball retention.

Finally, Stoke had four shots on target against us, Spurs had four, Fulham the same or thereabouts. We've conceded a high ratio of goals to shots which does happen from time to time. Two own goals in those games haven't helped. I'm sure we'll turn things around in this respect.

The positives are there for all to see. The Stoke defence, normally incredibly hard to break down, could not cope with the movement of the front three. Anderson played a neat cameo and Valencia, while still not 100% fit in my eyes, did what we've come to expect from him. The full backs also appear to be in good form.

Welbeck misses chances but his movement is very good as is the movement of both Rooney and RvP
and thats what has us unlocking defences. Once Chicharito gets his scoring boots back on and Kagawa sparks into life we'll be irresistible up front. We just need to be a bit more gritty in midfield and tighter at the back.

What is it that we’re trying to accomplish this season? I was hoping that this would be our year of complete transition to youth, answering the question of who is our midfield future, getting a solid and clear 11 taking us forward and taking back title from CITY!

I do not want to be here again next season wondering if cleverly, Anderson, Powell are the future. FFs, let scholes, gigs go in piece and let these guys fully prove their worth.

As i said after the first game, Sorry, but unless we focus entirely on epl this season and try to get our youth on, we will be lucky with being in the top 4. We are too u stable for the cl and not ready to challenge there. If we try to do both we will end up empty handed again this season.

Also, despite Danny finally scoring, I still feel he needs to go on one year loan. He lacks the composure we need up front, and this will probably come in the next 2 years for him, but we can’t afford to waste precious opportunities.

Excellent observation in Point 1 "Stoke’s have no problem getting the ball from the half way line to our penalty area at Old Trafford, what will happen when we face a side of real quality?" And Doesn't this directly contradict Point #3?
"Paul Scholes had yet another quietly brilliant game"

@adam
You're being harsh on welbeck there mate
While you're right about his composure in front of goal, but loaning him back after last season's form and this seasons form already cementing his place it would be really stupid
Danny here is learning from the golden boot winner and a runner up from last season, surely there's no better place, he's learning from two best finishers around, its certain he'll improve
And its not like he's been awful or anything its just that he's lacking confidence when in front of goal and that's bound to improve, now tha he's off the mark expect him to in a lot more. Patience!!!!!

And the club will never go out in a season targeting only the league title, we're the second best team and everyone expect us to be challenging for every trophy, that's crazy if you want us to focus on a single title, no fan of the club would say that

Playing Scholes and Carrick away at Chelsea will be suicide. This combination in midfield means we have no midfield. Our midfield simply cannot move. The little bastards Mata, Oscar and Hazard will have a field day in between the lines.

... vs Chelsea

I hate to say this but considering our opposition that narrow monstrosity might be the best option.

De Gea, Ferdinand, Evans, Evra, Rafael, Fletcher, Cleverley, Anderson, Kagawa, Rooney and Van Persie.
*** The midfield has plenty of legs to get in and around the Chelsea flair players, unknown quantity in Kagawa for Chelsea to deal with and both our main strikers play ***

@Proverb, i say that becasuse we are too unstable this season, unless something dramatically changes in our defence/midfield, and as much as I WOULD LOVE TO, you have to acknowledge that us going all the way in CL is very unlikely with the uncertainly we've seen thus far.

EPL top 4 will be very tight this year, and during our CL/EPL weeks, if we field a "secondary team" for our EPL matches, we're doing some crazy gambling, just my two cents.

I know the Wellbz crowd is split on the issue, it's obvious where I stand :)

I'm thinking that some of our defensive problems stem from playing Scholes, unfortunately.

When Carrick and Scholes are our centre pairing, Carrick has to defend and get forward to support, because Scholes just sits in the middle around the centre circle. Carrick is then getting caught out of position when opposition teams counter. If Cleverley or Anderson was alongside Carrick, Carrick could sit (like Fletch has in recent times) and allow the other one to get forward more.

Scholes is still a wonderful player, but he should be playing 20-30min at the end of games to sure us up and retain possession, not starting games.

re BC C/over, how can Chicharito hone his craft if SAF never plays him? SAF, don't make the same Pogba-mistake with Chich, you *will* lose him to other clubs desperate for a young guy with his skills (me, i think everything about him is better than Welz...timing, anticipation, finishing, the lot. bench Welz and hone Pea). Re benching Rio & Evra for Braga, i hope they stay there. both have lost a yard (or 5) over the years. did you see Rio flailing about (and ultimately falling down) at Stokes second goal? he's a liability on the pitch and gives me chest pains whenever am opposing forward comes near him. can't wait for Vidic & Jones to get back and put Rio out to pasture.

Proverb
In retaliation to Rio not wearing the dont call me names t-shirt I decided that the footballers at OT at this present time are little to celibrate., We have a man who fucks his brothers wife, a drink driver, a compulsive twitterer and open racist, we have a man who fucks prostitute, a lazy wanker, a portugese princess, a smoker, etc etc hardly like the days of old where football was NO1 on their agendas.
So I have decided to do a MUST (but not for the same reasons) and taken off my shirt. Hence low and behold, underneath what should I find but a peticoat and hence have changed my name accordingly.

I don't for one minute think it will be Carrick and Scholes at the Bridge. It will be similar to the barcodes game with a front 6 if you like of Carrick, Clevs, Rooney, RVP, Kagawa and a n other. Cleverley HAS to start. he gives us energy and presses the opposition. I have no problem with Anderson starting either. Welbeck is fucking top drawer. I also didnt realise till we bought him just HOW good RVP's all round game is. World Class player. I couldn't give a fuck about that fag cunt Hazard or "Azaar" as the media seem to call him or that skinny cunt Oscar. Mata is the worry. We need to keep him quiet. A class act.

It still rankles we lost to Spurs . They are fucking dogshit. When they went 2-1 up Saturday their arses well and truly went. Had we performed first half against them like we did in the second half we would have hammered the. Oh well.

Scholes and Carrick against Chelsea's Mata and Hazard will be disastrous - their pace will over run our pedestrian midfield. We need Cleverley in there to give us some pace and movement. Not sure about Fletcher's match fitness but I would rather have him play 60/70 minutes to break up the opposition play and then if necessary bring on Scholes. I missed Saturdays game as I was on the TUC demo in London but having watched MOTD it was Scholes ridiculous tackle near the penalty area that gave away the free kick that led to Stoke's first goal via Rooney's head!

Cleverley will play midweek, as well as Kagawa, and you imagine Scholes will return to partner Carrick for next weekend’s trip to Stamford Bridge.
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Really? I love both Scholes and Carrick but up against the trio of Hazard, Mata and Oscar? Carrick will play as I think SAF will utilize Fletcher against Braga. But up against Chelsea, I'd expect to see the faster Cleverly rather than seeing Scholes tackling. No offense to the great Paul Scholes, but you need a midfielder that keep pace with the young midfield of Chelski.

Braga at home are nothing to be sniffed at. True, they could bottle it and under perform, but then again they might set out from the first whistle to put pressure on us to concede. Thats what we've got to guard against especially with Evans and Wooton at CH. That partnership can do a job imo but they need protection in front of them, either Carrick or Fletcher or maybe even both.

Giggs and Scholes have been criticised of late but the selection policy (imo) has been geared towards bottle necks in the season like this. Every game the old guard start and win helps us further down the line as we've got the right players fresh for the right matches. Cleverly and Anderson would be knackered going into these next 5 games if they had both played twice as much football.

Instead, they are both fit and rearing to go. I'd much rather we be in this position than let those two start against all the relegation fodder we've faced so far. It might be frustrating for some supporters but we want our best midfield partnership fit for Chelsea away, not Stoke at Home.

Anyway, Ferguson knows what he's doing so im expecting an inspired team sheet tomorrow. But even then, Chelsea on Sunday HAS to be our priority so I wouldn't be surprised to see a "modest" line up v Braga. Either way, as long as we go all guns blazing on Sunday I won't be fussed. We've got the Squad get the results we need over the coming 2 weeks. Its gonna be manic tho. Can't wait.