Re: Wa-petty or suji for a do-everything knife?

Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:51 am

I like the idea of a Kono 210mm gyuto for a sort of long-petty alternative to the 210 yo-handled suji I have. It is compact in length, short in height, but more usable for light prep than a gyuto. I will put that on my list, possibly in white #2 guise rather than HD2.

I was also intrigued by the Richmond Hamon given the size/shape but the weight/thickness is a little disconcerting without there being many reviews of it out there.

Re: Wa-petty or suji for a do-everything knife?

Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:02 am

I use a 210 petty as it is a well rounded and versatile design when I have limited room to work and I don't have space for a larger knife. I love my 270 gyuto and like to have more length to make my tasks easier but a 210 is not too big, not too small either. It definitly depends what ingredients you are cutting but most times if it can be done with a gyuto, it can be done with a sujihiki. The knife you choose will determine the knife strokes and techniques used to breakdown foods. There's usually more than one way to do things and the knife you choose will be another factor toward getting the job done.

I have a Konosuke blue 210 petty and though I use it sparingly, it functions as well as a gyuto while being lighter and more nimble.

A 240 sujihiki can be used as an all purpose knife replacing a gyuto completely as long as you don't need additional weight to break though ingredients that wedge. Sujihikis don't wedge much anyhow. The knife techniques may need to be refined for adapting to a shorter blade height but that is compensated by working in front of the cutting board, not over it, making knucke clearance irrelevant. The longer length (240mm,270mm) would then be beneficial in adjusting to the new orientation to the cutting board.

Re: Wa-petty or suji for a do-everything knife?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:28 am

I agree with everyone else, a gyuto is the all around knife. As I understand it, gyuto somehow translates to "cow knife" (gyuto hocho?) so its not just for vegies. Sizes from 180mm to over 300mm cover just about everything. I still wonder why CKTG does not carry a 300mm gyuto. I had to go to another site to get my wa handled Hiromoto AS stainless clad gyuto, and I find it very practical.

Re: Wa-petty or suji for a do-everything knife?

Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:03 pm

estayton wrote:I'm interested in getting another suji eventually, largely just for something different, but I don't slice large cuts of meat so I feel like 270+ lengths may not be useful to me. I mostly eat fish/chicken and I'm a home cook.

I have a 210mm Minamoto-Kanemasa suji in 2N carbon steel I largely use to trim and slice chicken breasts. It behaves well in that role, but I find it a little too flexible for vegetable tasks, though I have at times grabbed it to do small amounts of prep (an onion, a few apples, etc.). It is great for tomatoes but it isn't confidence inspiring on anything as hard as an onion because the tip wants to deflect.

I don't want to answer your questions with another question, but I must ask, do you like the 210mm sujihiki? Besides the flex of the Minamoto, is there anything else that detracts the appeal of it? (Edge retention, blade thickness, etc)?

The Konosuke has all the attributes I want for a sujihiki but they have a decent amount of flex in the blade. You may have to try a thicker sujihiki for less flex.

I may recommend a 240mm sujihiki. (if you're not deboning chickens. 240 would be too long for tasks like that). The length of a 240 will give you more blade, moving the cutting action more toward the heel and lessen tip use when slicing and chopping. This may help issues with the perceived blade flex. Although the gap from 210 to 240 is fairly small, the knife strokes will be different and may make the small tasks more manageable.

Let me know what you would change of your Minamoto. I'd be happy to help you search for a knife/steel you'll enjoy more.

Re: Wa-petty or suji for a do-everything knife?

Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:29 pm

estayton - Did you ever decide what to do in this case? I'm thinking of a couple of things I'd like in another knife (or maybe two) and one of the things I'm pondering is your question. Thinking of something that slices, preps, etc and is not too big. The Kono 210 gyuto is a candidate as is a 210 petty or 240 suji.

Re: Wa-petty or suji for a do-everything knife?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:45 am

estayton wrote:Does anyone here use something like a 210mm wa-petty or 210-270mm sujihiki for a general-purpose knife? If so, what characteristics do you find most important for this role? And what size?

I do. A Konosuke White #2 240mm in fact as a workhorse. For the following reasons, glides through carrots, very delicate on herbs and fine chive cutting; great for spring onions; onions go just as quick;tomatoes, we all know what Konos do with tomatoes; then you use it for fish trimming and filleting- assuming you're not looking to use a specialized knife, the suji will do the job easily for you. Meat cutting tasks- just avoid bones and you will find trimming tenderloins, portioning ribs, rumps and flanks very easy. I keep a 150mm Petty as a smaller veg knife when I'm don't feel the need to pick up the suji and that doubles up as my paring knife as well.

Characteristic wise, height differences between a Gyuto and a Suji will obviously need an adjustment in grip. Here's an example of the two grips I use at work (although I'm obviously at home taking pictures for this thread). Although to answer the question more, I also have a Kanehiro Suji which is defs taller than the kono and it gives a little more leverage when it comes to certain prep jobs, but nothing that will kill you if you don't have it.

Re: Wa-petty or suji for a do-everything knife?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:42 pm

Interesting post on the suji, Sherski. Until I got to this, I was with everyone else: my 210 HD2 is very undersized, with a very "short" (i.e., not "tall") tip section that allows for coring work like a petty, and it is blade heavy (which makes the tip feel more agile on a larger knife), all of which makes it feel like an over-sized petty more than a gyuto (all good features when I want to work with a smaller knife but still want to use gyuto-type grips and cuts). Ironically, there are many times when I reach for my LARGER gyuto (240) and wonder what it would be like to use a "tall" suji instead, as I like rather short knives (I have small hands and a tall board), and because I'm often cutting shorter, flatter ingredients, anyway.

All of this is to say that, like Totoro, I'm curious about what you (estayton) ended up buying, and how you like it, especially relative to your cutting techniques (and/or if it has changed your cutting techniques, etc.). Sherski: thanks for the instructive pics to go along with your nice write-up.

Anyone else like to use Sujis in this way (i.e., push-cutting, mincing, etc)? Considering the "two camps" (for very narrow profiles, such as age-old, very worn Sabatier profiles versus the new, tall Richmond Addict, etc.), I'm wondering if Sujis offer a second option for the people that favor narrow profiles for certain work. If it isn't obvious, I've never used a "true" suji in my life, but have used other types of "slicers"!

Re: Wa-petty or suji for a do-everything knife?

Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:01 pm

I really enjoy using the suji, i played with it as an AP knife for a while to get a better feel for it, but the lack of knuckle clearance made work a bit awkward for me. I use the Gyuto or a large petty(150mm) almost exclusively for prep, and feel that they work better for me 95% of the time.