as a fellow snowboarder I've seen many snowboard/Ski wars this is nothing to get excited about. This particular incident showed skiers in a bad light. I've seen some punk sh*T by snowboarders that makes me want to take my board off so i'm not associated with snowboarders. This is no different then waterskiers and wakeboarders...

I was just more amazed by the dad's willingness to punch a guy in the face in front of his child, as well as to get into a verbal confrontation in front of the kids as well, all while stating that he was "protecting" them. That's just insanity. And poor parenting. I'm not defending the snowboarders, but dang.

I am wondering what we didn't see prior to that. In the beginning of the vid, you hear a profanity and can see kids skiing by. The grown ups def. didn't handle it good though. One thing snowboarders need to keep in mind. There are two four foot metal rods in the guys hands.

Bold move to push someone. You never know who you're messing with these days. The unsuspecting snowboarder could be a UFC fighter for all you know. Collisions happen. I just try to keep my distance.

Or what they are carrying... when I go snowboarding I generally have a Sig P239 in my jacket pocket on my left shoulder, otherwise I have a CZ P07 Duty. I can fire the CZ accurately with my huge Stoic Welder Trigger Mitts on.

When I am carrying though, which is ALWAYS, I act differently than I would while not. I would have skied away...

All the punks out there should be a little more careful when deciding who to pick on. It's amazing who is carrying and who is not! For example, do you know how easy it is to conceal a Remington 870 Special Purpose Marine Shotgun on a 2006 SAN 210? It straps up into the gunnel very well and I can access it in seconds.

Carrying while F'n skiing or snowboarding are you kidding me!?! I can see no absolute logic for this what so ever. There is nothing that could happen on a ski hill that could warrant carrying a freakin firearm. Oh how hearing this fires me right up. How stupid!!!

Or what they are carrying... when I go snowboarding I generally have a Sig P239 in my jacket pocket on my left shoulder, otherwise I have a CZ P07 Duty. I can fire the CZ accurately with my huge Stoic Welder Trigger Mitts on.

When I am carrying though, which is ALWAYS, I act differently than I would while not. I would have skied away...

All the punks out there should be a little more careful when deciding who to pick on. It's amazing who is carrying and who is not! For example, do you know how easy it is to conceal a Remington 870 Special Purpose Marine Shotgun on a 2006 SAN 210? It straps up into the gunnel very well and I can access it in seconds.

Really? You feel its necessary to carry a gun while skiing and while boating? In my opinion I think learning self defense and learning how to fight is a much more useful tool.

Also know that I am not against gun use. I hunt and shoot often. I just think its a little overboard to carry firearms while doing things that are "fun".

Carrying while F'n skiing or snowboarding are you kidding me!?! I can see no absolute logic for this what so ever. There is nothing that could happen on a ski hill that could warrant carrying a freakin firearm. Oh how hearing this fires me right up. How stupid!!!

IMO, they were all being dicks about it. I'm looking at the video thinking "Wow, it's beautiful up there." Too bad everyone in that video could only see the tree & not the forest. Look, the dad was being an a-hole, especially in front of his kids. But why not chalk it up to "Man, that guy's having a bad day" and continue on? Why keep pestering someone who you know is already aggravated? Better to move on and enjoy the day.

Why? Because he basically assaulted the kid. Not saying they took the best approach, but that guy was a ******** and deserved to be confronted. I spend a lot of time at ski resorts. If somebody ever just pushed or punched me mid-run for no real reason I'd confront them too.

‘Tis the season to beat the crap out of someone (allegedly) on the ski slopes.

Friday’s incident at Beaver Creek ski area – in which a Georgia man was charged with misdemeanor child abuse for punching a teenage girl who bumped into his 4-year-old son – is reminiscent of another slope rage case at Beaver Creek that resulted in a federal lawsuit.

In that 2007 case, a 7-year-old boy accidentally skied over the backs of the skis of a 60-year-old Pennsylvania man, causing him to fall. The man reacted angrily, claimed serious injury and filed a $75,000 federal lawsuit against the boy and his family. The case sparked national outrage and prompted calls for changes to the Colorado Skier Safety Act.

The incident also became the poster child for lawsuit abuse, generating an ad campaign by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

In last weekend’s incident, a sheriff’s investigator said the 41-year-old Georgia man jumped on the 14-year-old girl from Mexico and punched her in the face, but later apologized for his inappropriate behavior once he realized his son was not hurt. The girl told police she swerved to avoid a fallen skier and accidentally bumped into the child.

The slopes are crowded with holiday skiers this time of year, and stressed-out vacationers are dropping big money to have fun in the mountains. When things go wrong, as inevitably they do, the results can be explosive.

District Attorney Mark Hurlbert told the Vail Daily that a conviction of the Georgia man could land him up to two years in the county jail.

are the slopes always that crowded? none of that seemed fun to me. granted, I have only been snowboarding once, and it was during a freaking blizzard.

not to defend the dad at all, but he mentioned he warned them earlier about being more careful around his kids. it sounds like he acted out, after he warned them.
also, doesnt this area seem way too narrow to be taking up half of one side just to film someone doing relatively easy tricks? everyone had to veer around the guy with the camera constantly.

the best course of action would have been to follow the guy all the way down to the bottom, and tell the ranger what happened. show him the footage, and wait while he gets arrested for assault. too many people nowadays feel the need to fight or continue a confrontation when it really is not necessary.

are the slopes always that crowded? none of that seemed fun to me. granted, I have only been snowboarding once, and it was during a freaking blizzard.

not to defend the dad at all, but he mentioned he warned them earlier about being more careful around his kids. it sounds like he acted out, after he warned them.
also, doesnt this area seem way too narrow to be taking up half of one side just to film someone doing relatively easy tricks? everyone had to veer around the guy with the camera constantly.

the best course of action would have been to follow the guy all the way down to the bottom, and tell the ranger what happened. show him the footage, and wait while he gets arrested for assault. too many people nowadays feel the need to fight or continue a confrontation when it really is not necessary.

A ranger? I have never seen a "ranger" at a resort either while being a customer or working as "Lifty".

Sam If keeping a gun close by makes you feel good I say wear 2 then. I think the ski slopes is one of the last places I would wanna make sure I was packing but that's just me. To each his own. Like I said if you feel it makes you safe and it's legal then by all means exercize your 2nd admendment right.

IMO the legit people that get the right permits and take the required gun saftey classes, Good for you. I think these are the people we don't have to worry about.

I can also understand how some people could or might feel uncomfortable with not knowing who has a gun or not. Its a warm cozy feeling thinking only the good guys have guns and the cops will rush to your need the moment some one gets out of line.

I have never had a situation where I thought I needed a gun. But I can see how if you or some one you loved were the victum of a crime where a gun might have given you a better out come then I can understand and respect your point

Crowded cat tracks and greens/groomers are not the place to haul azz and F around like that. The dad was being overprotective and unreasonable, but it could've been easily avoided. I had a similar snowplowing dad intentionally cut me off last season when I was just cruising down a trail past his kids because he thought I was coming too close, which almost caused me to take him and his kids out. I wanted to stop and explain how he actually created danger where there was none (and beat his azz if he didn't like the lesson), but it's better just to move along. Life is too short to carry a gun when you're supposed to be enjoying your vacation.

2 guns on the slopes.. Absurd.. Sorry dude, but that is just sad that you have to do that in order to feel safe while skiing. Post as many stats as you want, but that is just absurd to me. I have my CCP and the last place I would have my gun is on the slopes. Hell, we dirtbike in the woods all summer and none of us carry even out there. And run into some serioius bizarre people in our travels. Paranoid much?

I have had ski slope rage before. I was teaching a friend how to snowboard on a green hill, when some punk ollied over her in the middle of the slope, barely clearing her head. I told my friend to stay put, chased the dude down, and ripped his lift ticket (and probably his whole zipper and pocket) off of his jacket. Pretty sure i spat in his face too. I was definitely a little out of control at the time.

I have never had a situation where I thought I needed a gun. But I can see how if you or some one you loved were the victum of a crime where a gun might have given you a better out come then I can understand and respect your point

Exactly! People here are so naive that it's crazy! No one wakes up in the morning knowing that they are going to need a gun.

You can either be a victim or not be a victim.

When someone in your family has been raped, violently robbed, or even killed it will change your mind. Why wait till it happens?

An armed society is a peaceful society. I would bet anything that if either one of those guys in the video was carrying none of what followed would have happened. If someone challenges me at the lake, or anywhere else, and I am carrying I walk or even run away. Before I started to carry I would have been the first person to step up and trade lumps.

and for all you big tough guys out there that think they can fight their way out of trouble, think about this; U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1999) estimated that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male. Yes, 9% of the victims were male, which equated to about 10,000 males being raped.

The reading comprehension on here is horrible...

Finally, I think everyone should read Unintended Consequences by John Ross and pay special attention to the chapter title August 15, 1971. If you email John Ross, he will tell you what parts of the book are true and which are obviously not...

That's the last I will say on the subject, except that I can guarantee that I'm not the only one carrying at the ski resort or anywhere else you can think of.

Seriously - no troll - not being a dick - it really, really sucks to be you.. To even have those kind of thoughts - it really sucks for you.. I know that in your head your are "safe" and "justified" but the fact that you even think like that makes me feel sorry for you...

I'm not sticking up for sam or sideing with him because like I said I would never carry in a place like that. IMO the only thing Sam did wrong was link this video with the need to Carry Mabey it gave people the impression that they need a gun to avoid a situation like this.
Sam did say he would have ski'd away. And it sounds like Sam knows the liabilty of having a gun and even avoids situations because he is carrying. I think alot of people have a false sence when they think cops are the only people who have guns. I know a few people that let's just say " don't leave home with out it" if you have all the correct paper work to legaly carry a gun then what's the problem.

I do agree that people with guns straped to their hip not in a uniform raise my eyebrow and can make people nervous. I guess outa sight outa mind and that's how I think many people Cary

Actually Sam it won't happen to me. See, I live in a country where people don't feel they need to walk around with a gun in their coat and the ones that are carrying illegaly ( as your not allowed to have a hand gun on you unless you are going directly to the range and back) won't be the ones up at the ski hill. I understand that if more people are carrying the less likely S##t is to go down but personally I don't want to live in a place like that and I'm glad I don't. I have family friends that live out of Stockton on the Delta with nobody around, I get that has to have the ability to protect himslef as the cops would be a long time before they got to his house. I just think the extreme of carrying on a ski hill or out on your boat is a bit much. The only ones that carry around here are the gang/drug dealers and they all just kill themselves which is fine with me. Then again, we probably don't have the real bad areas like the states does. You can post clips and links all day and say what ifs all you want but you won't change the mind of this Canadian.

Actually Sam it won't happen to me. See, I live in a country where people don't feel they need to walk around with a gun in their coat and the ones that are carrying illegaly ( as your not allowed to have a hand gun on you unless you are going directly to the range and back) won't be the ones up at the ski hill. I understand that if more people are carrying the less likely S##t is to go down but personally I don't want to live in a place like that and I'm glad I don't. I have family friends that live out of Stockton on the Delta with nobody around, I get that has to have the ability to protect himslef as the cops would be a long time before they got to his house. I just think the extreme of carrying on a ski hill or out on your boat is a bit much. The only ones that carry around here are the gang/drug dealers and they all just kill themselves which is fine with me. Then again, we probably don't have the real bad areas like the states does. You can post clips and links all day and say what ifs all you want but you won't change the mind of this Canadian.

That is why you live in a quasi-socialist country... so you can feel safe.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Like I said before, when one of your family members raped, violently robbed, or even killed it will change your mind, it did mine, and the rest of my family - we all pack, including my 75 year old mother.

Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the leading cases of this type. Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate's screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: "For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers."

The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [4] There are many similar cases with results to the same effect. [5]

In the Warren case the injured parties sued the District of Columbia under its own laws for failing to protect them. Most often such cases are brought in state (or, in the case of Warren, D.C.) courts for violation of state statutes, because federal law pertaining to these matters is even more onerous. But when someone does sue under federal law, it is nearly always for violation of 42 U.S.C. 1983 (often inaccurately referred to as "the civil rights act"). Section 1983 claims are brought against government officials for allegedly violating the injured parties' federal statutory or Constitutional rights.

The seminal case establishing the general rule that police have no duty under federal law to protect citizens is DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services. [6] Frequently these cases are based on an alleged "special relationship" between the injured party and the police. In DeShaney the injured party was a boy who was beaten and permanently injured by his father. He claimed a special relationship existed because local officials knew he was being abused, indeed they had "specifically proclaimed by word and deed [their] intention to protect him against that danger," [7] but failed to remove him from his father's custody.

The Court in DeShaney held that no duty arose because of a "special relationship," concluding that Constitutional duties of care and protection only exist as to certain individuals, such as incarcerated prisoners, involuntarily committed mental patients and others restrained against their will and therefore unable to protect themselves. "The affirmative duty to protect arises not from the State's knowledge of the individual's predicament or from its expressions of intent to help him, but from the limitation which it has imposed on his freedom to act on his own behalf." [8]

Sam, let me guess, you have a bomb shelter filled with a years worth of food and water too huh?

Thats fine if you believe in carrying but quit trying to substantiate your beliefs by posting every link and article or suggesting us to read a book you read. Believe what you believe but don't try to force it on others, you're not convincing anyone.

And to answer your question about protecting your family. I agree about that part thats why I chose to learn how to fight, ie MMA.

^^^^ I'm all for having a gun at home. I think those two were a little foolish for going down there. There are some circumstances where I would agree with you Sam, but packing at the ski resort is a level of paranoia that I just don't want be in. Maybe you have your reasons….

I carry on long road trips, camping or traveling by car, and when spending the night in hotels. I have weapons in the house, but with kids, they have to be locked up at all times.

I can't worry about every possible scenario where me or a family member could be harmed, or if I might kill some other innocent person in a gun fire exchange. I feel 100% confident though that I will never need a gun while snowboarding. 100%

Sam, let me guess, you have a bomb shelter filled with a years worth of food and water too huh?

Thats fine if you believe in carrying but quit trying to substantiate your beliefs by posting every link and article or suggesting us to read a book you read. Believe what you believe but don't try to force it on others, you're not convincing anyone.

And to answer your question about protecting your family. I agree about that part thats why I chose to learn how to fight, ie MMA.

I'm not trying to substantiate anything. The last time I checked, this is the non-wakeboarding section of this forum and a forum in general is a place of discussion. I am merely trying to provoke thought in the terms of the original post.

This guy new MMA pretty good too, are you as good or better than him???

and he died at age 30 from a gun wound to the chest...

What other places are people 100% confident that you will never need a gun? How is a ski resort different from the places that you might carry a gun, like road trips, camping, or traveling by car? Aren't you supposedly safer in your car? You can just drive right on by the bad guys...

I carry on long road trips, camping or traveling by car, and when spending the night in hotels. I have weapons in the house, but with kids, they have to be locked up at all times

Agreed. Here in Texas we have the Castle Law, which in a nutshell allows you to shoot a home burglar for self defense reasons. I keep a pistol ready in the house that my wife knows how to shoot as well. I have talked with my 5 year old daughter about guns and gun safety and knows that she should never under any circumstances touch one. I was raised around firearms and hunting so I believe they have their place in society. But a 12 gauge on a boat, thats a first!

DISCLAMER: I agree I dont feel the need to have a gun. But to each his own. For a constructive conversation, You never know when the need for a gun might be usefull. Its easy to say. "Why would you need a gun on the slopes" because we haven't had a big news story where some deranged Idiot decides to turn a Ski resort into a shooting gallery, Then I bet people would change their mind's

How many people "Myself included" thought you should bring a gun to a local school board meeting? Untill this video came out bringing a gun to a school board meeting was about as crazy as bringing one to the slopes.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga_no...ayer_embedded#!

Im not saying everyone should carry. I think Idiots that can barley drive and try to text are a far greater risk then a person that has a CCP, and I am saying if one chooses to carry and its done by the book that person should not be talked down to. Its your right as a American.

The situation was that he didn't think that he needed a gun, and therefore didn't have one when he did in fact need one. Now he is dead. This is what happens to 99% of people when they find themselves in a situation that requires a gun or where they could benefit by having one, they don't have one.

My family and I on the other hand have the gun 100% of the time when legally able, and when and if the situation rises we have a much higher percentage of carrying another day.

If either guy in the video was carrying a gun legally, the incident would have never happened. The one carrying the gun legally, would have simply gone their way as training and liability compel them to.

"If either guy in the video was carrying a gun legally, the incident would have never happened. The one carrying the gun legally, would have simply gone their way as training and liability compel them to."

Actually, I think either the Dad or the douche-bag who took his shirt off might have pulled it and made things much much worse. It's good that nobody in that video was likely carrying a gun or any other weapon.

"If either guy in the video was carrying a gun legally, the incident would have never happened. The one carrying the gun legally, would have simply gone their way as training and liability compel them to."

Actually, I think either the Dad or the douche-bag who took his shirt off might have pulled it and made things much much worse. It's good that nobody in that video was likely carrying a gun or any other weapon.

Based on personal experience, hot heads who carry, generally, miraculously learn self control and have a much clearer thought process.

Consider this by Chris Enoch:

If the penalty for driving over the posted speed limit was:
1. You lose your driver's license (most likely forever!)
2. you're thrown in jail
3. you're fined
4. police confiscate your car/truck and
5. potentially lose your job.
Would you go over the speed limit? I hazard to guess you would not. However, if you or a loved one was seriously injured and you're headed to the emergency room, I bet you would speed just to save their life.

There are a lot of concealed carry holders and you don't hear about crazy people brandishing their guns, because, in my opinion, concealed carry holders know there are serious consequences. However, given a situation where someone was threatening another's life we would be willing to risk our freedoms to protect that life. I am not equating this incident to a life threatening situation, quite the opposite.

Law abiding citizens who choose to carry a concealed weapon do not go looking for a gun fight, or a fight of any kind. More likely they pray they never have to pull their weapon, or get into any kind of fight, but would rather be prepared for a situation that calls for it than not. Keep in mind that pulling your weapon is the start of a very bad day, but it may save lives, and any person who legally carries know this.

Sam,
there's a lesson in this thread for you. If you refrain from talking every opportunity to talk about carrying a firearm(complete with pictures)...........?!
I'm pretty certain your intentions are good and only mean to educate, but save it for appropriate threads. It makes you look like a crazy.

Quote:

IMO the only thing Sam did wrong was link this video with the need to Carry Mabey it gave people the impression that they need a gun to avoid a situation like this.

Sam,
there's a lesson in this thread for you. If you refrain from talking every opportunity to talk about carrying a firearm(complete with pictures)...........?!
I'm pretty certain your intentions are good and only mean to educate, but save it for appropriate threads. It makes you look like a crazy.

"given a situation where someone was threatening another's life we would be willing to risk our freedoms to protect that life"
Sam,so if a gunman held up the cash register at the ski resort, you would "intervene" to save a life? in reality your just going to make things worse.

and for the record, Sam, I don't necessarily disagree with your position, just your choice of venues, delivery and frequency. There's a time and a place. It's really non of my business, but there wasn't anything in that video that even hints at deadly force and it's a bit alarming that needing a firearm comes to mind when viewing it.

I disagree with the opinion that if everyone carried it would be safer. Your analogy above is based completely on the assumption that the vast majority of humans weigh all consequences and make logical choices before taking an action. I personally think the percentage of people who do think like this most of the time is lower than you might think.

I honestly don't see how an online, intro course to logic applies to this situation, nor do I feel that the course would support your stand on the necessity of a firearm on a ski slope or a shotgun on a pleasure craft, that is unless the instructor is Ted Nugent.

"How do you know he didn't own a gun. And how do you know that owning one would have prevented his death?"

You will never convince someone that is obviously delusional, that there is ever a time when not having a firearm would result in a better outcome.

I honestly don't see how an online, intro course to logic applies to this situation, nor do I feel that the course would support your stand on the necessity of a firearm on a ski slope or a shotgun on a pleasure craft, that is unless the instructor is Ted Nugent.

"How do you know he didn't own a gun. And how do you know that owning one would have prevented his death?"

You will never convince someone that is obviously delusional, that there is ever a time when not having a firearm would result in a better outcome.

I think some people here could benefit from including some reading comprehension and then logic in their analysis.

Well, first, the police report and all the news articles state that he didn't have a gun. Second, if someone is involved in a shooting, it usually helps if you can fire back if you can't get away. The dead MMA guy couldn't do either. I suppose he should have waited around for the police to arrive, versus protecting himself... oops he did, and now he's dead...

And once again, you resort to attacking me directly... you are obviously the most righteous, intelligent, thoughtful, sheep out there! I bahhh down to you!!

I'm not attacking you directly, I am attacking your thinking that it is appropriate to bring a gun to a ski slope. I know you will convince us all of the impossibility, but say you took a hard spill and the gun was lost. Then some kid finds it and shoots them self or mistakingly shoots someone else.

And just for the record, I don't see how disagreeing with you makes me a sheep. I mean do you have to be like the guy from "I'm gonna get you sucka" and load up with weapons just to feel safe?

I'm not attacking you directly, I am attacking your thinking that it is appropriate to bring a gun to a ski slope. I know you will convince us all of the impossibility, but say you took a hard spill and the gun was lost. Then some kid finds it and shoots them self or mistakingly shoots someone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wake77

Sam walks around with a bullet in one pocket and a cyanide capsule in the other.

The only reason to carry two guns onto a ski slope is to add a couple of inches to an undersized ______.

I guess I'm mistaken... but you do utilize the arguments of the knee-jerk reaction sheep... very little actual intellectual reasoning. BAAHHH!! "Shear Brilliance!!"

and yes, I have lost hundreds of Sig Pro Custom Shop P239's at $1,400 a pop and am responsible for hundreds of dead kids! We are talking about baby goats now, correct? I assumed you were talking about baby goats because no one would actually consider the other in a rational discussion... One of the responsibilities of carrying is not to lose the gun... I guess I could also get struck by lightening and blow up taking out everyone around me.

What is it with you and goats, sheep, the size of my junk, and DADT anyway?

Sam, could care less about the size of your junk, etc. But you are famous on this board for your militant, the government is out to get us, the rapture is coming/Alex Jones- style of thinking. And look around, not one person on this board has thought that carrying a gun on the slopes is a good idea.

Then you like to advertise to us how much money you have with: "I have lost hundreds of Sig Pro Custom Shop P239's at $1,400 a pop" and "is how my dad went from being the 11th son in a family of 12 boys and one girl who ate mac and cheese, spaghetti, and bologna for every meal to someone with an estate valued at over $20 million in less that forty years. He made a fortune buying, fixing up, and renting small apartments, mainly tri and fourplexes..." which contradicts your posts such as: "Easy for you to say Nick, at 21, I doubt you have many bills... See what saving that extra week does for you with 6 kids, etc... Every dollar counts!".

So which is it, because I find it weird that a person that "has to watch every dollar" would drop the coin on a $1,400 Sig when you could get a quality handgun for a grand less.

And if you are insinuating that I am gay, I mean how old are you, because that is something that you hear from 15 year olds or some "dude brah" douchebag.

First, we have Sarcasm, you should read more. You were the one to bring up the size of my junk, not me.

Second, my dad's money isn't mine. I don't actually have any kids of my own. My wife has four that I provide for, and we currently foster 3 more from Cuba.

Third, you don't know squat about guns... there are not many that I would trust my life to, that I would feel comfortable carrying day in and day out. A $400 Remington 870 - yes I might trust my life to it but I am not going to carry it around everyday. A $400 revolver - maybe, but again, I am not going to carry it around everyday. I carry the Sig because I have priorities, namely the safety of my family. I know the Sig will fire every time that I pull the trigger, and that I can hit what I am aiming for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wake77

And if you are insinuating that I am gay, I mean how old are you, because that is something that you hear from 15 year olds or some "dude brah" douchebag.

Coming from the guy who says, "Sam walks around with a bullet in one pocket and a cyanide capsule in the other." and "The only reason to carry two guns onto a ski slope is to add a couple of inches to an undersized ______." I guess we are both 15...

This time I am going to end my contributions to this thread before Dave intercedes...

I think some people here could benefit from including some reading comprehension and then logic in their analysis.

Well, first, the police report and all the news articles state that he didn't have a gun. Second, if someone is involved in a shooting, it usually helps if you can fire back if you can't get away.

Readin comprehension? I didn't see a link to the police report. Speaking of reading comprehension, I didn't say anything about having a gun on his person. I ask how you knew he didn't own a gun. Most people who own guns don't have them on their person at all times. Who killed him and under what circumstances is what I'm referring to. Is your belief that all people man, woman, and child should carry a concealed weapon at all times?

You will never convince someone that is obviously delusional, that there is ever a time when not having a firearm would result in a better outcome.

Every day there is a news report where someone not having a gun would have resulted in a better outcome. But it's always the "other" guy having the gun that is the problem. If I was a huge advocate of always packing heat I wouldn't be promoting it to others.