Btw, the Murray explanation I am waiting on is - how come when he was with F Perry and #4, raising star, he wore Adidas and Nike, as he wanted (mainly Adidas).
This tells me that a high ranked, highly marketable tennis star was not sponsored by Adidas. How is that possible??
Why is he so different than Djokovic, oscillating between #1 and #2??
Or, why is he different from Kei??

Btw, the Murray explanation I am waiting on is - how come when he was with F Perry and #4, raising star, he wore Adidas and Nike, as he wanted (mainly Adidas).
This tells me that a high ranked, highly marketable tennis star was not sponsored by Adidas. How is that possible??
Why is he so different than Djokovic, oscillating between #1 and #2??
Or, why is he different from Kei??

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Because he was, as you say, a rising star. Rising stars are nothing compared to stars. Once Federer and Nadal were made complete lock-outs so far as clothing/shoe sponsorship goes the next rung down were a dime a dozen punts - most of which haven't paid off. The companies entering into these arrangements know most deals wont pay off in a huge way but it's the cost of business they have to pay if they want to snare the next big thing which also includes an element of keeping them out of their competition's hands also. Once Murray had some level of success I imagine he got other offers, or just the one, that Fred Perry simply couldn't match (or, in the least, justify in their budget).

Murray was a particularly special case - which ANYONE with any marketing nous could tell you regardless of his results. He was the UK's next big hope.... that made him more valuable for a sponsor than anyone from a backwater European country.

Nishikori, again, it a special case. He's Japan's only (male) tennis player of any note for 15-odd years. That means something, especially in such an insular country as Japan with a huge and unique domestic market. There is no doubt at all that he is paid to wear Adidas shoes. The Uniqlo stores have Adidas shoes on display in the tennis-wear section and on the posters. That is not by any random chance or the result of some free product.

So far as the Murray wearing Nike shoes thing goes, that's neither here nor there - nothing more to it than him requiring specific traits in a shoe for those tournaments. And, more specifically, it's of zero significance in the whole Djokovic wearing Adidas scenario.

Because he was, as you say, a rising star. Rising stars are nothing compared to stars. Once Federer and Nadal were made complete lock-outs so far as clothing/shoe sponsorship goes the next rung down were a dime a dozen punts - most of which haven't paid off. The companies entering into these arrangements know most deals wont pay off in a huge way but it's the cost of business they have to pay if they want to snare the next big thing which also includes an element of keeping them out of their competition's hands also. Once Murray had some level of success I imagine he got other offers, or just the one, that Fred Perry simply couldn't match (or, in the least, justify in their budget).

Murray was a particularly special case - which ANYONE with any marketing nous could tell you regardless of his results. He was the UK's next big hope.... that made him more valuable for a sponsor than anyone from a backwater European country.

Nishikori, again, it a special case. He's Japan's only (male) tennis player of any note for 15-odd years. That means something, especially in such an insular country as Japan with a huge and unique domestic market. There is no doubt at all that he is paid to wear Adidas shoes. The Uniqlo stores have Adidas shoes on display in the tennis-wear section and on the posters. That is not by any random chance or the result of some free product.

So far as the Murray wearing Nike shoes thing goes, that's neither here nor there - nothing more to it than him requiring specific traits in a shoe for those tournaments. And, more specifically, it's of zero significance in the whole Djokovic wearing Adidas scenario.

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hmm, I am not sure I understand your explanation that Murray, a #4 at the time, a member of the "Big 4", was considered just a Rising star, whereas, lets say, quite a few others, Simon, for example (to stay away from your "special cases") was sponsored by adidas and clearly NOT a potential of Murray...
The significance/parallel is that Djokovic and Murray were/are top athletes, Murray is far more marketable (overall) and yet, just because one is 2 spots above the other you firmply claim the differences...

"Which anyone with Marketing nous..." -- I told you, I have been doing marketing (portion) while you were in the Middle school, so, lets not go there.

This is more to hear your way of thinking...without going back the route of the previous few posts...

I doubt you're a decade older than I. You're just just old before your time - one of those people who just can't help themselves but to assume a dominant, paternal, know-it-all position in discussions in the misguided thinking it somehow makes you an automatic expert on anything you care to open you mouth about.

Your know-it-all attitude knows no bounds. I am and have done everything I say I have. Your ongoing snide attempts at painting yourself as the person in the discussion with the only experience worthy of merit on the topic is laughable. Unless you say otherwise, from what I gather from your career related posts previously, you have no experience in consumer goods marketing. You are a sales rep who worked his way up the ladder. You happen to play and have an interest in tennis - it doesn't make you the expert on sponsorship, brand associations or marketing influence that you, in effect, claim to be.

Keep it up. The more of your Sunday you spend replying here the better imo.

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BTW, this caught my eye...
WHile I keep repeating OVER and OVER that this whole thread is my opinion, you, somehow, conclude that I claim to be an expert and claim all I say to be "the fact". Do you even realize how egoistic that is, just to prove your own point? THAT is what I meant "to make yourself feel better" part -- you turn things around and "put" words in my mouth just to make yourself feel better...
I advised you NOT to guess, you continue making yourself a fool...
If you must know, obviously bothering you a lot, I was a systems/design engineer, then Applications/Marketing Engineer for the first half of my career (when you graduated from College). Then...shoot me an email for more

So far, since I joined, reading posts of both of you in many threads I found out:

dr325:
- has said before he knows Djokovic's family
- system design engineer that works with marketing
- is wrong about this topic, but doesn't want to admit

Bobby Jr:
- coached or worked coaching with Tony Roach
- Has worked in the marketing business for a long time.
- Has explained the most probable theories about Djokovic/Adidas sponsorship, which is clearly spot on.

So far, since I joined, reading posts of both of you in many threads I found out:

dr325:
- has said before he knows Djokovic's family
- system design engineer that works with marketing
- is wrong about this topic, but doesn't want to admit

Bobby Jr:
- coached or worked coaching with Tony Roach
- Has worked in the marketing business for a long time.
- Has explained the most probable theories about Djokovic/Adidas sponsorship, which is clearly spot on.

So far, since I joined, reading posts of both of you in many threads I found out:

dr325:
- has said before he knows Djokovic's family
- system design engineer that works with marketing
- is wrong about this topic, but doesn't want to admit

Bobby Jr:
- coached or worked coaching with Tony Roach
- Has worked in the marketing business for a long time.
- Has explained the most probable theories about Djokovic/Adidas sponsorship, which is clearly spot on.

What's right and what's wrong, who is telling the truth who isn't?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the "non-biased" summary of the thread.
Seems like you and Bobby conveniently pick words that fit your own agenda, and summarize the whole thread.

1) I have worked as an engineer about half of my career, just when bobby got out of college. Then, I was in sales/marketing for the rest of my career.
2) I have met DJ family a few times, parents, brothers, met him twice... Knowing his family means nothing in this thread.
3) I do not mind admiting I am wrong if it can be proven to me (remember, engineer). However, so far, Bobby's been playing a single card - Novak would be crazy to wear the shoes that fit him perfect without getting big $$$$ yet, Murray, was "crazy" for quite a few years. Telling me how crazy it would be to accept the ST/uniqlo deal Limiting him on the shoe deal, yet, Adidas (worth 1000...x) is crazy not to put world's #1 face on their page or have their name on his page.. Maybe it is the sports marketing?

4) I have trained with the top player on these boards who coached at Newcomb's, Sanchez and is currently coaching at Prague's top clubs. He was and is sponsored and has shared some insights.

Again, I am not saying Bobby is wrong or right, and that I have facts. I am just questioning the logic of outdated model shoes, no face on web pages, no single google link on his sponsorship.... And then, the Murray thing that was newer answered....

Thanks for the "non-biased" summary of the thread.
Seems like you and Bobby conveniently pick words that fit your own agenda, and summarize the whole thread.

1) I have worked as an engineer about half of my career, just when bobby got out of college. Then, I was in sales/marketing for the rest of my career.
2) I have met DJ family a few times, parents, brothers, met him twice... Knowing his family means nothing in this thread.
3) I do not mind admiting I am wrong if it can be proven to me (remember, engineer). However, so far, Bobby's been playing a single card - Novak would be crazy to wear the shoes that fit him perfect without getting big $$$$ yet, Murray, was "crazy" for quite a few years. Telling me how crazy it would be to accept the ST/uniqlo deal Limiting him on the shoe deal, yet, Adidas (worth 1000...x) is crazy not to put world's #1 face on their page or have their name on his page.. Maybe it is the sports marketing?

4) I have trained with the top player on these boards who coached at Newcomb's, Sanchez and is currently coaching at Prague's top clubs. He was and is sponsored and has shared some insights.

Again, I am not saying Bobby is wrong or right, and that I have facts. I am just questioning the logic of outdated model shoes, no face on web pages, no single google link on his sponsorship.... And then, the Murray thing that was newer answered....

Click to expand...

Sometimes there won't be any explanations for situations, specially in deals that only a few people know about it, that is why Bobby Jr's explanation sound reasonable to what may be the deal.

Players go through shoes faster than most people think, sometimes the deliveries happen to tournament sites sometimes to hotels, their residencies etc... if a player is using older model of shoes it can be for a lot of different reasons, Murray was wearing Nike at the time on clay because he was allowed by Adidas to wear since the Nike may have been a better shoe at the time for Murray, still He was sponsored by Adidas, but Murray is/was a different case.

Djokovic, the number 1 player in the world is getting sponsorship money from Adidas, as any top player get paid to wear shoes from a brand. Being on Adidas site or not doesn't mean much, maybe Adidas doesn't want to put Djokovic's picture there because what most people will see is Uniqlo (which pays him to wear clothes in every photo shoot), and that's the last thing Adidas want is someone like Djokovic to be wearing a competitor's apparel on their site - meaning Adidas will be promoting Uniqlo.

Anyway, Bobby Jr is right on the money with what may just as well be what happened in the "Djokovic's case" .

Sometimes there won't be any explanations for situations, specially in deals that only a few people know about it, that is why Bobby Jr's explanation sound reasonable to what may be the deal.

Players go through shoes faster than most people think, sometimes the deliveries happen to tournament sites sometimes to hotels, their residencies etc... if a player is using older model of shoes it can be for a lot of different reasons, Murray was wearing Nike at the time on clay because he was allowed by Adidas to wear since the Nike may have been a better shoe at the time for Murray, still He was sponsored by Adidas, but Murray is/was a different case.

Djokovic, the number 1 player in the world is getting sponsorship money from Adidas, as any top player get paid to wear shoes from a brand. Being on Adidas site or not doesn't mean much, maybe Adidas doesn't want to put Djokovic's picture there because what most people will see is Uniqlo (which pays him to wear clothes in every photo shoot), and that's the last thing Adidas want is someone like Djokovic to be wearing a competitor's apparel on their site - meaning Adidas will be promoting Uniqlo.

Anyway, Bobby Jr is right on the money with what may just as well be what happened in the "Djokovic's case" .

Click to expand...

I like this explanation, especially because only faces showing on Adidas page are fully sponsored by Adidas -- no Kei, no Novak...

On the other hand --Murray was allowed to wear Nikes, Djokovic was not when he did and had to tape the swoosh thing...and it was all over the web news... Does not fully add up...however, I suspect your explanation would be that he was with FP sponsored for clothing...

I like this explanation, especially because only faces showing on Adidas page are fully sponsored by Adidas -- no Kei, no Novak...

On the other hand --Murray was allowed to wear Nikes, Djokovic was not when he did and had to tape the swoosh thing...and it was all over the web news... Does not fully add up...however, I suspect your explanation would be that he was with FP sponsored for clothing...

Why is UNIQLO promoting Adidas (their competitor) in their stores?

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I don't know much of the details, but may be because Uniqlo does not have shoes, but clothing store would not mind showing shoes and may as well be in the contract, it may also be because shoes are small part of the picture or they aren't showed on all pictures, usually when people see a full picture of a tennis player, what they see more ate clothes and tennis racquet.

1) I have worked as an engineer about half of my career, just when bobby got out of college. Then, I was in sales/marketing for the rest of my career.

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Sales-people always think they're in marketing. The bigger the industry and the more specialised the product the more it is the case. They are but a single cog of what marketing is - which is why I surmise your self-professed expertise in marketing is in fact very niche. Notwithstanding your debating points on this specific topic demonstrate that to me - as someone with 20 years in an almost pure marketing field - I read your explanations on this topic and scratch my head. Examples as fundamentally flawed and simple as you espouse may make sense, but they most likely don't. imo.

Telling me how crazy it would be to accept the ST/uniqlo deal Limiting him on the shoe deal, yet, Adidas (worth 1000...x) is crazy not to put world's #1 face on their page or have their name on his page.. Maybe it is the sports marketing?

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We've been over the obvious reasons for this dozens of times. You just have myopia when it comes to reasoning which doesn't fit your already firm views.

To me, that seems out of place for someone with an engineering background.

4) I have trained with the top player on these boards who coached at Newcomb's, Sanchez and is currently coaching at Prague's top clubs. He was and is sponsored and has shared some insights.

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Irrelevant imo. Unless he was in the league of top players comparing his sort of sponsorship to that of a top player folly. These are deals which require head-office buy in and form the centre-point for their entire global marketing campaigns. A coach or coaching clinic is, at best, a local arrangement. Even the Bollitieri academy's sponsorship deals in the late 80s and 90s were irrelevant in the scheme of things. And they were possibly the best known tennis academy in the world at that stage.

Again, I am not saying Bobby is wrong or right, and that I have facts. I am just questioning the logic of outdated model shoes, no face on web pages, no single google link on his sponsorship.... And then, the Murray thing that was newer answered....

So far, since I joined, reading posts of both of you in many threads I found out:

dr325:
- has said before he knows Djokovic's family
- system design engineer that works with marketing
- is wrong about this topic, but doesn't want to admit

Bobby Jr:
- coached or worked coaching with Tony Roach
- Has worked in the marketing business for a long time.
- Has explained the most probable theories about Djokovic/Adidas sponsorship, which is clearly spot on.

What's right and what's wrong, who is telling the truth who isn't?

Click to expand...

Gold! You're the cliff note specialist. :lol:

**Coached a couple of times as a kid at clinics by Roach. I've never coached for/with him or any other famous coach/academy for that matter.

Sometimes there won't be any explanations for situations, specially in deals that only a few people know about it, that is why Bobby Jr's explanation sound reasonable to what may be the deal.

Players go through shoes faster than most people think, sometimes the deliveries happen to tournament sites sometimes to hotels, their residencies etc... if a player is using older model of shoes it can be for a lot of different reasons, Murray was wearing Nike at the time on clay because he was allowed by Adidas to wear since the Nike may have been a better shoe at the time for Murray, still He was sponsored by Adidas, but Murray is/was a different case.

Djokovic, the number 1 player in the world is getting sponsorship money from Adidas, as any top player get paid to wear shoes from a brand. Being on Adidas site or not doesn't mean much, maybe Adidas doesn't want to put Djokovic's picture there because what most people will see is Uniqlo (which pays him to wear clothes in every photo shoot), and that's the last thing Adidas want is someone like Djokovic to be wearing a competitor's apparel on their site - meaning Adidas will be promoting Uniqlo.

Anyway, Bobby Jr is right on the money with what may just as well be what happened in the "Djokovic's case" .

Click to expand...

Dude, we've told him this many times, he doesn't get it. I once said that he could have his pic on the Adidas site, it'd be him naked, just wearing Adidas shoes, smiling. He is the type of guy that is right no matter what, if he decides the sky is green, then it doesn't matter that it's obviously blue, he says it's green, and that's it.

I am wondering if this is indeed the most recent shot...
Looks like it it, and I wonder how is that possible with the Unoqlo contract?!

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Sometimes the federations make deals with manufacturers for their team competitions. It's usually just for the team warm-up suits. An example is Russia and their Bosco Sport deal--Maria Sharapova wore Bosco Sport warm-ups in her Fed Cup matches even though she is a Nike girl. It is very common. The Serbian federation could have made a multi-year deal with ST that is still in effect. The Czech Republic Davis Cup teams wears Alea warm-ups.

Sometimes the federations make deals with manufacturers for their team competitions. It's usually just for the team warm-up suits. An example is Russia and their Bosco Sport deal--Maria Sharapova wore Bosco Sport warm-ups in her Fed Cup matches even though she is a Nike girl. It is very common. The Serbian federation could have made a multi-year deal with ST that is still in effect. The Czech Republic Davis Cup teams wears Alea warm-ups.

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Sounds reasonable.
I am wondering why Tipsarevic always plays in Fila, though...could be the warm up part...
I am not sure about the other cases...

Sometimes the federations make deals with manufacturers for their team competitions. It's usually just for the team warm-up suits. An example is Russia and their Bosco Sport deal--Maria Sharapova wore Bosco Sport warm-ups in her Fed Cup matches even though she is a Nike girl. It is very common. The Serbian federation could have made a multi-year deal with ST that is still in effect. The Czech Republic Davis Cup teams wears Alea warm-ups.

yea the federations make their own contracts for the team gear that is just used for "official" purposes like press conferences and sitting on the sidelines. It looks like Belgium has a deal with Nike, since David Goffin has a Lacoste deal.