No saviour from on high delivers,
No faith have we in prince or peer.
Our own right hand the chains must shiver,
Chains of hatred, greed and fear.

I think a more inventive approach could be taken to finding the truly atheistic songs. Songs about the supremacy of the individual acting alone express a belief in the absence of God. For example, "The Greatest Love of All" (the greatest love is self-love). And I've long thought of this song as fundamentally atheistic.

'Atheist-themed songs' is a useless concept. I am a hard-core atheist but I listen to a lot of Indian (Carnatic aka South-Indian) classical music which is by definition devotional, praising various deities and offering thanks. I ignore the lyrics and look at the craft, the artistry, the depth, and finally the sound they produce, vocally or by an instrument. I am celebrating the individual, the artist as I listen. Fortunately this category of music is deep and intricate in structure and highly mathematical which makes it a wonderful intellectual pursuit.

"The Noose" by A Perfect Circle might be construed at anti-religious, but it's more of an atheistic song...according to Maynard, anyway.

"Right In Two" by Tool, on the other hand, sounds like it's anti-religious, but it's actually more along the lines of "what the fuck, people, God gave you all these gifts and here's what you do with it".

Odd ends of the spectrum, possibly, but Maynard would tell you that having a son will do that to you.

You know, most people couldn't guess your religion, unless you told them.

The same is true for people who claim they're gay. Because I say you haven't been marked with a dot on your head ... (No one really is. When you see those dots they're usually just dots of lipstick.)

Once a year? Those dots are put their by priests.

I no longer see dots as frequently as I did. And, I don't see yarmulkas either. (Something I thought men wore all the time. Because my parents stuck me in a religious school. Where I learned being different is okay. Okey dokey.)

What about woodys? Well, I don't have them. So I don't know. But I've never seen anything like a horizontal cigar sticking out on a man. Where he couldn't see his shoes.

A pregnant lady is different. Shoes go by about the 7th month. But pregancies take a long time to develop.

Meeting someone, and just saying "hello" ... doesn't clue you in at all to religious beliefs.

Which are sometimes faked. Just like some women fake orgasms.

What was that ... that Lincoln said about fooling some of the people ???

Behind military uniforms ... isn't it intended to make all the wearers look alike? Aren't they designed to be bland?

Who wants to go to a show that doesn't have a standup comedian? (Okay. If it contains a lecture about guns ... I can see men showing up.)

The song was inspired by the book Elvis and Me by Priscilla Presley. According to songwriter Martin Gore:

It's a song about being a Jesus for somebody else, someone to give you hope and care. It's about how Elvis was her man and her mentor and how often that happens in love relationships; how everybody's heart is like a god in some way, and that's not a very balanced view of someone, is it?

I have no considerationZero mutual respectFor billions who suffer from rational thought neglectI don’t wanna waste a sentenceI don’t want a conversationThat’s gonna end in disdain disbelief and aggravation

And I find it’s getting harder to hang outWith grown adults who actually believeIn Santa Clause and Noah’s Ark, and Their god is the bestMy distaste has turned into detest

Who would read a 2000-year-old medical journal?Techniques for blood-lettingAdvice on trichinosisWould you navigate the globeWith a map of a flat Earth?Without DNA testing would you believe virgin birth?

Thank god for the GrammyThank god for the touchdownThank god for blowing up the enemy’s sacred groundSo how am I supposed to take anything you say seriouslyWhen you swap free will for faith, hope and pre-destiny?

And it’s getting agonizing to hang outWith grown adults who actually believeMythology and history trump physics and scienceMy aversion has turned to abhorrence.

I thought of "My Way" when I was writing the post. I didn't go read the lyrics, but something about it felt to me as though the singer did acknowledge God. Looking at the lyrics, I think it is kinda atheistic, especially rejecting being "one who kneels." And as with "The Greatest Love of All," there's the total reliance on self: "What is man, what has he got, if not himself, then he has naught?" On the other hand, that question reminds me of Jesus' question: "For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?"

"Did your God ride the bulletTo the old Lorraine Motel?Is it the blood of the lamb, is it another man down,Did he catch him as he fell?Did he calm the waters?Did his heart just freeze?What did your God see?"

When I served there we were very religious, in fact, our favorite song was Blood on the Risers. Sung to the tune of The Battle Hymn of the Republic.

He was just a rookie trooper and he surely shook with fright,He checked off his equipment and made sure his pack was tight;He had to sit and listen to those awful engines roar,"You ain't gonna jump no more!"(CHORUS)Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,he ain't gonna jump no more!"Is everybody happy?" cried the Sergeant looking up,Our Hero meekly answered "Yes," and then they stood him up;He jumped into the icy blast, his static line unhooked,And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)He counted long, he counted loud, he waited for the shock,He felt the wind, he felt the cold, he felt the awful drop,The silk from his reserve spilled out and wrapped around his legs,And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)The risers wrapped around his neck, connectors cracked his dome,Suspension lines were tied in knots around his skinny bones;The canopy became his shroud; he hurtled to the ground.And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)The days he'd lived and loved and laughed kept running through his mind,He thought about the girl back home, the one he'd left behind;He thought about the medics, and wondered what they'd find,And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)The ambulance was on the spot, the jeeps were running wild,The medics jumped and screamed with glee, rolled up their sleeves and smiled,For it had been a week or more since last a 'chute had failed,And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)He hit the ground, the sound was "SPLAT" his blood went spurting high,His comrades were all heard to say "A hell of a way to die!"He lay there rolling round in the welter of his gore,And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)(slowly, solemnly; about half the speed of the other verses)There was blood upon the risers, there were brains upon the chute,Intestines were a'dangling from his Paratrooper suit,He was a mess, they picked him up and poured him from his boots,And he ain't gonna jump no moreGory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,And he ain't gonna jump no more!

When I served there we were very religious, in fact, our favorite song was Blood on the Risers. Sung to the tune of The Battle Hymn of the Republic.

He was just a rookie trooper and he surely shook with fright,He checked off his equipment and made sure his pack was tight;He had to sit and listen to those awful engines roar,"You ain't gonna jump no more!"(CHORUS)Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,he ain't gonna jump no more!"Is everybody happy?" cried the Sergeant looking up,Our Hero meekly answered "Yes," and then they stood him up;He jumped into the icy blast, his static line unhooked,And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)He counted long, he counted loud, he waited for the shock,He felt the wind, he felt the cold, he felt the awful drop,The silk from his reserve spilled out and wrapped around his legs,And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)The risers wrapped around his neck, connectors cracked his dome,Suspension lines were tied in knots around his skinny bones;The canopy became his shroud; he hurtled to the ground.And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)The days he'd lived and loved and laughed kept running through his mind,He thought about the girl back home, the one he'd left behind;He thought about the medics, and wondered what they'd find,And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)The ambulance was on the spot, the jeeps were running wild,The medics jumped and screamed with glee, rolled up their sleeves and smiled,For it had been a week or more since last a 'chute had failed,And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)He hit the ground, the sound was "SPLAT" his blood went spurting high,His comrades were all heard to say "A hell of a way to die!"He lay there rolling round in the welter of his gore,And he ain't gonna jump no more.(CHORUS)(slowly, solemnly; about half the speed of the other verses)There was blood upon the risers, there were brains upon the chute,Intestines were a'dangling from his Paratrooper suit,He was a mess, they picked him up and poured him from his boots,And he ain't gonna jump no moreGory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die,And he ain't gonna jump no more!

There are a number of self identified atheists on this list. Very few (IIRC) express themselves as "anti-religion" per se.

I appreciate the openness. Nice to have a list where people can talk about a lot of stuff without the ballistics. (There are a number of exceptions, of course. ;-) )

I am on another list where there is an amazing, and I do mean amazing, amount of "anti-religion" asides and snarks. Makes me lower the IQ of the writers exponentially. But also makes the list and some of the associated blogs less helpful to me.

So yes --- some atheists do seem to be able to make fools of themselves. (As do some Christians, Buddhists, Muslims ... name any human group ....)

Appreciate the commenters on Althouse. And the hostess of this soiree / sidewalk café.

The Crack Emcee "The Greatest Love of All" (the greatest love is self-love).

That's narcissism, not atheism.---------------------------------I'm guessing you saw this article in Slate?

http://www.slate.com/id/2300733/

Oh chuck, not sure if you noticed that all I did was paste the lyrics of a song I thought was "Atheistic." Maybe I confused you and you thought I wrote those lyrics. Maybe you just thought because I pasted those lyrics that I believed everything they say. Maybe you're just a complete fucking tool.

Well, I don't care if it rains or freezes,Long as I have my plastic JesusRiding on the dashboard of my carThrough all trials and tribulations,We will travel every nation,With my plastic Jesus I'll go far.

I don't care if it rains or freezesAs long as I've got my Plastic JesusGlued to the dashboard of my car,You can buy Him phosphorescentGlows in the dark, He's Pink and Pleasant,Take Him with you when you're travelling far

They are merely a competing interest. Any other claims are incidental to their true motives. I'm surprised that they still manage to obfuscate their true nature. Well, they are not alone in playing games. I suppose this is how the natural order is processed in a civilized society.

"When I served there we were very religious, in fact, our favorite song was Blood on the Risers. Sung to the tune of The Battle Hymn of the Republic........God, I wish I was a young man, again."

God can't make you young again but you can still hear 'your' song every morning just after dawn at the corner of Longstreet and Ardennes accompanied by the beat of 5000 pairs of boots hitting the blacktop.

JAL, Sigvold....I would argue that you are agnostic, not Atheist. Agnostics don't believe in God, and don't care if others do. it's a non-issue to them. Like me and soccer. I hate soccer, but as far as I am concerned, it doesn't exist in my world. I don't have any urge to destroy the event.

Athiests are an organized religion bent on destroying other religions.

Example, if someone honors a soccer player, I don't demand equal time or a lawsuit, I just ignore it. That makes me agnostic to the worlds most boring sport. I also don't try to convert soccerists to my cause.

As an agnostic, I have not written any anti-soccer books and had them placed in the sports section of Barnes and Noble. Yet many practitioners of Atheism have written books and you will find them in the religion section of Barnes and Noble.

You can choose a ready guideIn some celestial voiceIf you choose not to decideYou still have made a choiceYou can choose from phantom fearsAnd kindness that can killI will choose a path that's clearI will choose free will

The problem with the whole "well we gave Group A a platform to promote their views, but we'll make up for it by giving Groups B, C, etc a platform as well" is that it doesn't really suit people in groups that don't want a platform.

What most atheists want isn't to spread the Good News about atheism, but simply to not be bothered by religious people. I don't want to ring your doorbell and invite you to listen to Richard Dawkins; I want you to stop ringing MY doorbell (at nine o'clock on a Saturday morning -- have these people no decency?) to invite me to church. And I really, really want you to leave the minute I say "I'm not interested, thanks".

But instead we get stuff like this. First we have to listen to a bunch of religious promotion, then we're embarrassed by this "atheist concert" nonsense, and then we get to sit through a bunch of Christians getting their hate on. Eesh. If I wanted to have to deal with religious issues I'd join a religion.

You can surrender without a prayer,But never really pray,Pray without surrender.

Excellent submission with Freewill though. I think that strikes right to the heart of non-religious without being anti-religious. Rush sprinkles a lot of that around...though truth be told, they sprinkle a lot of everything around.

If Dungeons And Dragon-playing nerds hadn't latched on to them in the early 80's, they might be more widely regarded. Me? I'm a die-hard, lifelong fan.

The problem with the whole "well we gave Group A a platform to promote their views, but we'll make up for it by giving Groups B, C, etc a platform as well" is that it doesn't really suit people in groups that don't want a platform.---------------

Reverant, is it different denominations of Atheism then? Some just don't care what others do. Some need to prothesize, and often use force to promote Atheism. Example, suing to get a war memorial removed from a very remote California desert because a cross is included in it.

Kind of like Jews, who tend not to try to get converts, vs Mormons, who do?

Reverant, is it different denominations of Atheism then? Some just don't care what others do. Some need to prothesize, and often use force to promote Atheism.

That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

If your answer to the question "do you believe in gods" is "no", you're an atheist. You could be answering "no" because you are convinced no gods exist, or because you don't care if they exist, or because you think it is impossible to know if they exist, or simply because you see no reason to believe they exist. Any of the above may or may not be annoyed at the use of public funds for religion. Any of the above might not care, or might even support it.

Also, don't assume that just because a person wants Christian symbols removed from public land means the person's an atheist. Most of the Jews and Muslims I've known were annoyed by government endorsements of Christianity, too. For that matter there are some *Christian* sects (although no significant ones) that disdain such displays as falling under the "graven images" ban.

bago, such as lefties who worship Mother Earth. And those that oppose any and all mining, no matter how many safeguards are built in. It is part of their religion. Instead of science, they base their decision on faith. In this case, their faith tells them that all mining is bad and evil.

Palladian, the Higgs-Boson will only be found yesterday. Because I think it flings itself backwards in time. It's sorta the same with people who can't leave their parent's basement apartment. Why should an atom be any different?

Why stop looking when we still have no idea what rims the expanding universe?

You know I think there's a "ring" up there that spays out backwards in time. So that we can never explore it. But it looks like a Japanese (or Chinese) painting of a great big blue wave ... cresting its white spray backwards.

I also believe to each his (or her) own. It's all about wonders of wonders ...

The question, perhaps, is whether atheism can define itself without reference to theism.

Spot on. Christians can put on a Christian concert, but can you imagine an anti-Buddhist (or anti-Muslim or anti-Hindu, etc.) concert? A truly atheist concert would need to push whatever positive values its organizers hold--humanism maybe?

Chuck66, Revenant, I used to hear it as agnosticism, weak atheism, and strong atheism. Agnosticism: "I don't know if God/gods exist." Weak atheism: "I believe there is no God/I have no belief that God exists." Strong atheism: There is no God.

So one is uncertainty about the world, one is a truth claim about one's own beliefs, and the last is a truth claim about the world. It's only the last that has a inherent conflict with other views.

Agnosticism: "I don't know if God/gods exist." Weak atheism: "I believe there is no God/I have no belief that God exists." Strong atheism: There is no God.

"I believe there is no God" is strong atheism.

"I have no belief that God exists" is, as you noted, weak atheism. But a person who doesn't know if God exists *also* has no belief that God exists. He just has a particular reason for not having that belief.

Is it atheistic? The song says, in essence, that the world would be a better place if there was no heaven, hell, or religion. But it doesn't say those things don't exist, and it doesn't say *anything* about gods one way or the other.

I think it's fascinating how difficult the concept of atheism is for most of you, that Revenant has to spell it out (and even restate it) but you still insist on infusing it with your beliefs rather than doing what's necessary - emptying your beliefs out. And Chuck666, with his insistence that atheism is a religion, is just absurd. Give it a rest, man.

I would strongly suggest you all go to my site and hear "The Galaxy Song" by Eric Idle. It's about as close to the atheist's world view that's been presented here:

We are on a spinning planet, in the middle of a spinning galaxy, within an expanding (and spinning?) universe, and - while we are fortunate to have the opportunity to breathe - life here is crazy because, even after thousands of years, most still refuse to deal with these facts (or any others) intelligently.

No mention of God or gods, or beliefs of any kind - pro or con - just what we conclusively know to be true, without embellishment or worship.

That's atheism. There's nothing "anti" about it because there's nothing to be "anti" about. Silly, tragic, touching even, yes, but what's in your head is just that - what's in your head - and that will never make it real.

BTW - Revenant, you do a great job, dude. I'm glad we're on the same "team," though (of course) we don't have one,...

If our atheist friends want to sing the Internationale, then here is another song in the same moral vein:

We are the happy Hitler Youth;We have no need for Christian virtue;For Adolf Hitler is our intercessorAnd our redeemer.No priest, no evil oneCan keep usFrom feeling like Hitler’s children.No Christ do we follow, but Horst Wessel!Away with incense and holy water pots.

I'm an atheist and I recommend Crack Emcee's post on this, but unfortunately a lot of atheists *do* treat it as much a mark of personal identity. Their "anti-ness" seems to be a quality all its own and they seek out like-minded people to share in this common non-belief.

It really is bizarre at times. I would think the believers would be the ones gathering and singing songs and finding common-cause, while the non-believers would be walking about just minding their own business, but often that's not the case.

I just don't get it. Why would I want to get together with people just because we all don't believe in something?

The other day I was walking in the Mission (San Francisco) with a friend and we passed a sidewalk proselytizer. The guy had a bullhorn and a bible and was pleading with us to turn our back on sin--the typical stuff. But what was really bizarre was this hipster atheist standing two feet in front of the preacher, screaming insults at him and challenging him to prove the existence of god.

I turned to my friend and said "What's more pathetic, the guy preaching to hipsters and the homeless about embracing god, or the other guy trying to argue with him?"

I think it's fascinating how difficult the concept of atheism is for most of you, that Revenant has to spell it out (and even restate it) but you still insist on infusing it with your beliefs rather than doing what's necessary - emptying your beliefs out.

It is pretty similar to how some atheists and anti-theists choose to brush all Christianity with the same stripe as hucksters like certain televangelists and those people who choose to use religion as a power grab. I don't claim to know what every atheist believes, but the trending has been to my eyes that some of them don't have anything better to do than to mock religion and sneer at Christians at every turn. (They're stupid, lazy, crazy, and I've heard much much worse to my face.) Taken in that light it's not surprising why some people think atheism is more about getting their hate on for God and believers rather than the absence of anything. Just like certain people who claim to be Christian give our side a bad name, you guys have yours as well. And it would do both groups well to try to stop letting these people be the face of the debate.

I said "some" because it is "some" not all. I just find it rather funny that you seem to be getting out of sorts when both sides of this do the generalization thing to EACH OTHER all the time. One side does not have a monopoly on it. That was my whole point. Not sure how you got what you got out of my post.

It just is funny to me that you and CMC are frustrated when you say people misunderstand your lack of belief, but don't seem to understand that it's just as frustrating for religious people to have their beliefs twisted and told that "this is what you believe" by people who demonstrate no seeming understanding of my faith.

"It just is funny to me that you and CMC are frustrated when you say people misunderstand your lack of belief, but don't seem to understand that it's just as frustrating for religious people to have their beliefs twisted and told that "this is what you believe" by people who demonstrate no seeming understanding of my faith."

But that's the wonderful thing about not having the responsibility of faith: you don't really have to defend your faithlessness. You just get to put the God-botherers on the defensive, and act smug. See, it's all about appearing smarter than you, therefore better than you.

Both demonstrative atheism and demonstrative theism are, for many, just a path to the same, very mortal, concern: self-aggrandizement. Christ warns against this sort of satisfaction of superiority, advice that would serve both Christians and atheists alike.

You also said this represented a trend, which was the bit that prompted my response. But you're right, I left out the "some" before "Christians".

The word trending was probably not the right word to use and not what I intended to convey, so I apologize for that.

I think it is interesting with all the press some of these groups are getting with these atheist-themed concerts, the hysteria around the Ground Zero cross, etc. in light of many atheists claiming not to have an organized group or religion if you will. It's actually kind of funny that atheists are now having to fight the same generalizations that Christians have to fight against.Not all atheists want to cancel Christmas and not all Christians buy into the money-grubbing teaching that permeates some churches. I guess I just wonder if atheists get offended by this kind of stuff given that the likelihood increases to get painted with the same brush as some of the more ridiculous stuntmakers because it's in the press more. I know I get pretty disgusted when I see Benny Hinn on tv.

"No mention of God or gods, or beliefs of any kind - pro or con - just what we conclusively know to be true, without embellishment or worship."

But the subject at hand is not what we know, but what we don't. That's the realm of faith. Atheist have a belief about this, otherwise they would be agnostic - the only true faith-free position and the only one that is free to accept truth as it comes.

It's actually kind of funny that atheists are now having to fight the same generalizations that Christians have to fight against.

"Now having to fight"? Was there a point in American history in which atheists weren't generally considered, by the religious majority, to be bad people?

Heck, Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates from both parties can make cracks about how atheists can't be moral and/or patriotic and it barely makes the news. I don't much care so long as they don't re-enact the blasphemy laws, but you have to admit that if a major party politician made that kind of remark about Christians, Jews, or even Muslims his career would be in the toilet.

Crack...Since man has been living on earth he has worshiped spiritual forces/gods that seemed real to him.

If you have the courage to refuse to believe in such experiences, than I admire you.

Tg, not believing doesn't take courage - I couldn't if I wanted to. There's nothing for me to believe in. I'm not refusing to do it, it's simply not possible.

But you also must also deal with the fact that the audience for 90% of popular Hollywood movies and TV shows is fascinated with supernatural forces the culture always called witchcraft.

Can you be that strong alone with no faith in the transcendent God of the Hebrews and the Christians who offers to accept you and strengthen you?

I don't have a choice. Conversely, as I get older and the world appears to increasingly be going insane, I wonder when, and/or what will make, the rest of you will snap out of it. I've worked in my share of synagogues, and there's always a subset of Jews who don't believe in God because of the Holocaust. That's what it took for them.

The rest of you will get there. Shit, from where I sit,it almost looks like you're working at it.

It just is funny to me that you and CMC are frustrated when you say people misunderstand your lack of belief, but don't seem to understand that it's just as frustrating for religious people to have their beliefs twisted and told that "this is what you believe" by people who demonstrate no seeming understanding of my faith.

When it's defined as "having faith," why should anyone be concerned with it's intricacies? Aren't you the Bible's "Fool For Christ"? Then why complain? An atheist has reason (pun intended.)

In this way, being an atheist and being a believer are in no way comparable.

Atheist have a belief about this, otherwise they would be agnostic - the only true faith-free position and the only one that is free to accept truth as it comes.

How does having a belief about something preclude accepting the truth as it comes? I mean, you might believe your wife is faithful. Does that mean if you came home and found her banging the mailman you would say "gee, I must be hallucinating"? Or would you re-evaluate your belief in light of new evidence?

I believe the Christian god does not exist for the same reason I believe there is no alien civilization on the Moon -- we have no evidence of one and its existence is not predicted by what we know of the universe. But if we landed on the moon and an alien strolled up to the astronaut and was like "'sup?", I would say "whoa, aliens on the moon -- who'd have thunk it?"

Rush’s Free Will is the classic song in this category. Also by Rush: The Big Wheel (“I placed no trust in a faith that was ready-made, Take no chances on paradise delayed.”) Also “Fucking Hostile” by Pantera.

Bago said: “Atheist have a belief about this, otherwise they would be agnostic…”

Yes, but this belief might be grounded in reason rather than faith. Belief doesn’t imply faith; do you believe that the sun will rise in about 10 hours? You could believe this not because you have faith that God will make it happen, but that you know that the earth and sun are quite large, and the earth can’t stop rotating overnight, nor the sun blink out in a few hours.

I’m an atheist, not an agnostic, because I can confidently state that in my opinion, there are no gods. I’m as sure of this as the sun rising tomorrow, because the notion of an omnipotent, omniscient being violates not just laws of physics, but logic and set theory, leading to logical contradictions. The idea that this is a religious belief on my part is just flat-out wrong.

In my younger days I was more convinced that our species would be better off without religion, but I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s a natural part of the human condition. Wherever societies have sprung up, independent of one another, they’ve almost always developed a religion. Religiosity probably was a positive adaptation because it served as a mechanism of coping with mortality. Normal, healthy humans have this capacity to have faith in a religion; maybe I’m lacking a set of genes.

"It's got nothing to do with acting or appearing. You're on the defensive because you're afraid we are smarter and better than you."

"We" who, honey? I never said whether or not I am a theist or an atheist. I'm just making jokes and observations. You're making assumptions. I often find both religious and non-religious people to care more about "us versus them" than about ideas.

I am not an atheist, but I am so tired of the spiritual materialist who dominate the discussion of the spiritual life that I welcome this concert-- after all we all need to practice compassion and understand our deep connections to each other.

What a bonanza! Pure joy! I not only looked at Eric Idle's piece. I copied your link. And, sent it out to everybody I know! Plus, I told my son it was "book-markable."

Then, all the other stuff! Wow.

Also, in my car. Where I listen to books on tape while I'm driving. I'm listening now to Huck Finn.

Mark Twain was juiced!

Yes. We are all of us alone in this universe. But it's a real blessing to hear Twain's "voice." Read aloud by Patrick Fraley.

I also know Abraham Lincoln went to church. And, specifically not just listened to the sermons. Be after this part was over ... he'd go out. And, all his friends came by ... so they could listen to him "retell" it all. Do you know why?

Because when Abraham Lincoln retold the Sunday sermon ... all his friends could laugh.

Even back then. It wasn't about sitting still.

As to rocks. As far back as you want to go. Tailors put pockets inside a boy's pants. And, he not only picked up rocks and "specimens." He traded some of his collection ... for something else.

The gold's in the story telling.

And, the gifts of appreciation weren't set in stone.

But was earned by the story tellers, themselves.

Meanwhile, if people thought Mother Earth was a goddess ... how did we come to allow flush toilets?

Heck, I even thought we buried dead people to avoid having dead bodies laying around ... making healthy people (then), sick.

Anybody who has ever seen Bob Hope, entertaining real troops ... would know it wasn't a religious experience at all!

Bob Hope went there to relieve stress.

Bob Hope then invited Jayne Mansfield on stage ... And, when she came out ... all the men jumped up. Threw their hats in the air ... if they had one on. And, they went crazy.

Nope. Not a religious experience.

Jayne Mansfield had ta'ta's. Zoftig ... as was said in the old days. Who could imagine nature could make fluffy pillows just like that?

While friends of mine who were zoftig (zoftik?) ... complained they couldn't find bathrobes they could close. Or suits where the skirts would fit them (without crazy alterations) ... just so the jacket could fit.

Again. We're not discussing a religious experience.

Then, when Walmarts began opening ... purposely outside of town lines ... Traffic drove in to fill their parking lots. Because retailers were fined by cops if they opened on Sundays.

BLUE LAWS. As crazy as rent control. And, as destructive as "minimum wage." Because no one would give a teenager more than a dollar an hour.

"Back then" means when abortions were done in a back alley. (And, my mom said kids at home got to loser mothers ... who dropped like flies.) And, she said that's how Cinderella's story also began.

Before Disney grew a business model based on a pretty myth about "main street." Where you don't see security. Or even cash registers. You just don't even see reality.

Once the province of religion.

Today? Lots of people are keeping the money they used to throw into the collection plates. Oh, and where grandmas went to buy candles. So they could light a candle ... in a special place where they thought god was listening.

As far as I know you can be an existential atheist and still understand human connections, after all why else would Crack call for Men to stand up to racism and eliminate the racist card if he didn't realize our common core?

It was not a doctrine that made the Samritan guy's heart compassionate enough to pick him up and take care of his wounds and also his expenses while healing.

It was probably having experienced that situation himself once.

Neither. Obviously, it wasn't doctrine. That was part of the lesson, to care for others outside of the group you were taught to care about.

I don't know where or why you think he must have cared because he experienced the same situation once, but if you can only feel compassion for those experiencing what you've experienced, you're a pretty sad individual. It's not that hard to understand what others are experiencing, even if you've never experienced it. To feel compassion, you don't have to fully understand, just care enough to do something to help.

As far as I know you can be an existential atheist and still understand human connections, after all why else would Crack call for Men to stand up to racism and eliminate the racist card if he didn't realize our common core?

I think religious belief - the very concept of belief, actually - is outdated. But what humans learned from religion still forms our core understanding of how to live.

And what anyone's skin color has to do with anything is a pickle.

I experience transcendence, I just don't delude myself it has a supernatural origin.

Things I don't understand are merely things I don't understand. For instance, I've seen U.F.O.s but I don't claim they're men from mars. They're just something "unidentified."

I've seen "ghosts," but I understand the mind enough not to claim they were real.

I'm not afraid of the dark, nor enchanted by sunsets, but a sky full of stars fills me with awe.

I know that to be alive - to be able to experience anything - is to be one of the lucky ones.

But all of these things, together, make my life difficult because I'm seemingly alone in these views:

I'm surrounded by people determined to push religion or spirituality or - something - and not let it go.

They see skin color, mine especially, and make assumptions based on that.

They experience transcendence and insist it must have supernatural origin.

They make up or accept stories for things things they don't understand. For instance, U.F.O.s must be men from mars. Nothing is "unidentified."

They not only see "ghosts," but hunt them - on television.

They're afraid of the dark, enchanted by sunsets, and have no clue of they're place - even when looking at a sky full of stars.

They don't think that to be alive - to be able to experience anything - is to be lucky. They think life is lucky to have them.