I don't see how anyone could take what I said to be a statement of phyletism.

Like I said, knowing you (to some degree), I didn't. I knew it had to have some other meaning but I couldn't figure it out yet. The first apparent meaning was "the Orthodox Church was exemplified and primary manifest in the Church of Ethiopia", but it is clear that you actually meant "the EOTC was the official church of the state of Ethiopia".

The Church was thorougly enfranchised and proselytism by the various heterodox bodies was all but forbidden. This was a good thing.

...

Finding, as I do, modern Western proselytism among the Orthodox to be a deplorable and disgusting thing, I have no problem with Orthodoxy being the official religion of a given state or people supported at the expense of imported heresies whose advocates are seeking to take advantage of the relatively impoverished and chaotic state of much of the Orthodox world.

Agreed! I have no problem with the historical Church-State synergy that is now so dreaded and reviled in the Western secular world.

First of all, are you really of the opinion that Ethiopia was the true people of God with the truest religion even in the period from Abraham to Solomon when Judaism was in Palestine but not yet in Ethiopia?

We don't need to confess to a priest, because all of the priests are apostates

Ethiopian priestless Old Believers!

I just wanted to clarify that Hiywot is not saying this himself, but was merely quoting the beliefs of this heretical group as they appear on their website. Hiywot is thoroughly Orthodox, and in no way subscribes to these heretical teachings.

Selam

Thank you Gebre Menfes Kidus.

This is the cross that you bear!

Oh! Orthodox Tewahido our Mother!Legions of devils… plotting your dismemberAre fighting you within and from afarWithin are ethnicism, tribalism, and greed for powerHatred, discord, covetousness, fornication, and moreBut let these legions fight… You are in shining armor

The Janhoy worshiper, the Melketsedeq orderThe mason, the occultist, the ‘tehadiso’ preacherAnd now, and now... the Ethiopianhood philosopherSpray their venoms in your name from afarBut let these legions fight… You are in shining armor

Oh! Orthodox Tewahido our Mother!Never worry, never despairThis is the cross that you bearMany fall, many win and many join your warfareYours are triumph, reward and Oriental grandeur.

Very beautiful, Hiywot. I'm reminded of the song the people sang at the expulsion of the Jesuits from Ethiopia and the return of Tewahedo Orthodoxy as the official Faith after the deposition of some apostate emperor or other:

Ss. Mark and Cyril have o'erthrownThe folly of the church of RomeNo more the Western wolvesOur Ethiopia shall enthrall.

Keep fighting the good fight. May God sustain His Church, and true "ethiopiawinnet"...Tewahedo Orthodoxy.

Logged

Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox. It is, by definition, heterodox. Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

We don't need to confess to a priest, because all of the priests are apostates

Ethiopian priestless Old Believers!

I just wanted to clarify that Hiywot is not saying this himself, but was merely quoting the beliefs of this heretical group as they appear on their website. Hiywot is thoroughly Orthodox, and in no way subscribes to these heretical teachings.

I don't see how anyone could take what I said to be a statement of phyletism.

Like I said, knowing you (to some degree), I didn't. I knew it had to have some other meaning but I couldn't figure it out yet. The first apparent meaning was "the Orthodox Church was exemplified and primary manifest in the Church of Ethiopia", but it is clear that you actually meant "the EOTC was the official church of the state of Ethiopia".

The Church was thorougly enfranchised and proselytism by the various heterodox bodies was all but forbidden. This was a good thing.

...

Finding, as I do, modern Western proselytism among the Orthodox to be a deplorable and disgusting thing, I have no problem with Orthodoxy being the official religion of a given state or people supported at the expense of imported heresies whose advocates are seeking to take advantage of the relatively impoverished and chaotic state of much of the Orthodox world.

Agreed! I have no problem with the historical Church-State synergy that is now so dreaded and reviled in the Western secular world.

I wish we could have another one today to sort out all of the petty divisions currently plaguing our Communion.

Yes, I definitely think there are a number of issues that would do well to be sorted out, even some issues that were touched upon in 1965 but still need more work.

Kool and the gang, brother. Here's hoping for another Addis!

I have been wondering if maybe Armenia wouldn't be an opportune location given that it is now the only state that continues to support Oriental Orthodoxy as its official religion...

Good thinking! I agree. Then we could finally get all our issues sorted. Etchmiadzin vs. Cilicia, the whole Jacobite vs. Malankara thing, the Eritrean situation, not to mention this whole Ethiopian business. The general chaos in the Ethiopian Church leaves a lot of wiggle room for these fringe groups, vagante, cultic, and otherwise, to appropriate the name and ruin it, leading innocent seekers who don't know any better astray in the process.

Logged

Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox. It is, by definition, heterodox. Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

Very beautiful, Hiywot. I'm reminded of the song the people sang at the expulsion of the Jesuits from Ethiopia and the return of Tewahedo Orthodoxy as the official Faith after the deposition of some apostate emperor or other:

Ss. Mark and Cyril have o'erthrownThe folly of the church of RomeNo more the Western wolvesOur Ethiopia shall enthrall.

Keep fighting the good fight. May God sustain His Church, and true "ethiopiawinnet"...Tewahedo Orthodoxy.

Thank you Antonious Nikolas. Yes, it was King Susenios (1607-1632) who was converted to the Roman Catholic faith by a Portuguese missionary Pero Paez, and as a result of which the people and the clergy stood against him, and more than 10,000 members of the EOTC were killed. Widespread rebellions throughout Ethiopia, in the end, forced the emperor to reverse his policy and, thus frustrated, to abdicated his throne in favor of his son Fasiladas. King Fasiladas (1632–1667) restored the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church and expelled the Jesuits from the country.

Very inspiring. Ethiopia has weathered so many storms over the centuries and always maintained her Orthodox Faith. Ahmed Gragn (Islam), Queen Yodit (Judaism), the Portuguese imperialists (Catholicism), the Italian imperialists (fascism), the Derg (atheism), and now the Pentes, Tahadisso and their ilk, not to mention various cultists. It is inspiring to me how the Church of Ethiopia has sustained her people. If you have the time, could you please elaborate on the special relationship Ethiopia has with Our Lady, the Lady of us all, the Blessed Theotokos and Ever-Virgin St. May?

Logged

Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox. It is, by definition, heterodox. Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

First of all, are you really of the opinion that Ethiopia was the true people of God with the truest religion even in the period from Abraham to Solomon when Judaism was in Palestine but not yet in Ethiopia?

The Doctrine of the Religion of Ethiopia: The Kingdom of God is the original and the authentic, the unique and the unbroken one that was founded, at the beginning of Creation of the Universe and of Adam and Eve, by God Himself, upon the Holy Covenant that comprises the Seven Sacred Covenants that God Made with Humans, and whose age spans the last seven millenniums and a half years. Now, notwithstanding the foregoing statement, the bad news is that there should have been no any other religions among human beings or different doctrines among Christians other than the One referred above, viz. the religion and doctrine of Ethiopia: The Kingdom of God. The Good News, however, is that, all the aforementioned adversaries will, on the Final Day of The Divine Judgment that is forthcoming, will rise up in unison, discarding their differences and accepting the One Faith and the one Doctrine of the One Religion of Ethiopia: The Kingdom of God.

HERE IS THE TESTIMONIAL OF THE ETHIOPIANS ON THE HOLY COVENANT

We Ethiopians believe in our Ethiopianhood of the Holy Covenant that embodied and conserved the Seven Divine Covenants the Lord granted to humanity.

Our God, in the Era of the Genesis, founded the Ethiopian Entity on the Covenant of the Soul, through the Matrimony of Adam and Eve.

Then in the Patriarchal period, He raised it, through Noah's Rainbow, Melchizedek's Offering and Abraham's Circumcision, to the next stage of its eschatological growth. In the transitional Era of the Old Testament, He structured it, through Mose's Ark and David's Throne, to the finishing level that caused to bring about, under the Covenant of the Law, the genealogical union of the Ethiopian Queen Makkedda and the Israelite King Solomon. Finally, in the Era of the Everlasting Life, He brought it to completion with the Sacrificial Body and Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, born of the Virgin Mary, who is the pure seed descended from that preordained genealogical union, thus culminating the Ethiopian Entity with the Eternal Crown of the Covenant of the Holy Spirit.

We believe that Ethiopia, as such, represents the Kingdom of God on Earth constituting the three Houses of the People, of the Administration and of the Priesthood achieved through such progressive development in Her uninterrupted existence under the protection and guidance of the Holy Covenant.

We believe that Jesus Christ who is the Son of God and in the name of whom we are called Christians and who is born of the seed that sprung from Shem, Ham and Japhet, in the Ethiopian image of nationhood, ordination and kingship of His precursor, Melchizedek, is our Eternal Priest and King.

We believe that the Mother of God, the Virgin Mary, who is the True Mother of the Living and the Eternal Ark of the Covenant, is the personification of Ethiopia, our Queen in Heavens and on Earth and in whose name we are called Ethiopians.

We believe that the tri-coloured banner of Green, Yellow and Red, symbolizing the sign of the Rainbow, is our Eternal National Flag entrusted to us by God through Noah. We believe that the Divine Word of “the Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah” is ascribed to Jesus Christ who is the ultimate manifestation of the Holy Covenant, and the Prophetic Word of “Ethiopia Stretches out Her Hands to God” is attributed to the Virgin Mary, and that both Words of the Holy Spirit are our Eternal Divine Seal we received from Our God as a Nation of The Holy Covenant.

We believe that our spiritual birth from God, through the Grace of the Holy Baptism of The Covenant, entitled us to be heirs and servants of the Kingdom of God.

We believe that, in order for us to maintain such Divine birthright privilege, to confirm our inheritance of God's Kingdom and to continue rendering our pertinent services, it is our constant commitment to absolve our sins through incessant repentance and partake the Holy Communion of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

We believe that the genuine manifestation and the distinctive identification of our Faith in the Ethiopianhood of The Holy Covenant are best demonstrated by the typical Ethiopian deed that we perform in consideration and reflection of our love for both Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary.

We believe that it is our God who, in accordance with His Word of The Covenant, inscribed in our hearts, taught us and made us to preserve in our lives this Ethiopianhood, which is the embodiment of the Holy Covenant. Amen.

Very inspiring. Ethiopia has weathered so many storms over the centuries and always maintained her Orthodox Faith. Ahmed Gragn (Islam), Queen Yodit (Judaism), the Portuguese imperialists (Catholicism), the Italian imperialists (fascism), the Derg (atheism), and now the Pentes, Tahadisso and their ilk, not to mention various cultists. It is inspiring to me how the Church of Ethiopia has sustained her people. If you have the time, could you please elaborate on the special relationship Ethiopia has with Our Lady, the Lady of us all, the Blessed Theotokos and Ever-Virgin St. May?

Antonious Nikolas

I’m sorry for my late response. The relationship of the EOTC with the BVM is in the same line with that of other OO churches. But it is true that we have some traditions that may not be found in other OOs. There is a saying “If you scratch the skin of an Ethiopian you will find the name ‘Mariam’ written inside”. We have two anaphoras of St. Mary in our liturgy. One is known as “Ma’aza Qidasse” and is that of Aba Giorgis of Gasicha. The second and the commonest one is known as “Qidasse Mariam” and is attributed to Aba Heriaqos. We also have the largest number of Marian festivals, hymns, prayer books and writings. We have a tradition that says: during their flight into Egypt, the Holy Family has visited Ethiopia, during which, Jesus promised to His Mother that Ethiopia will be hers. “Woudasse Mariam” which is equivalent to the Coptic “Theotokia” is part of the everyday (morning) prayer of every Tewahido Christian at his/her home.

Out of reverence to the BVM, we never give the name “Mary” or “Mariam” per-se to our daughters, but instead, we give names like Ehite-Mariam (Sister of Mary), Wolete-Mariam (Daughter of Mary), Wolde-Mariam (Son of Mary), Amete-Mariam (Maiden of Mary), Gebre-Mariam (Servant of Mary), Fikre-Mariam (Beloved of Mary, for males), Fikerte-Mariam (Beloved of Mary, for females), Atsede-Mariam (Garden of Mary), Genete-Mariam (Paradise of Mary), Ma’aza Mariam (Fragrance of Mary) Askale-mariam, etc… These are given either as baptismal names or as proper names or as both.

Can I ask a further question about the Mother of God in relation to Ethiopia?

Am I right in thinking that the significance of the Ark in every Ethiopian church is linked to her?

Just as the Ark of the Covenant carried the tables of the Old Law, so the Theotokos carried the New Law, the Law of Grace, in the person of Jesus Christ.

A brief summation, I hope the question is clear.

In Christ.

Aidan

I’m sorry for my late response. Yes you are right. That is why we call the church of the Ark of the Covenant at Axum as “St. Mary Zion of Axum”. In the Kibre-Negest itself, it is written “…Verily the tabernacle of the covenant was the first thing to be created by Him…He created Zion before anything else, to be the habitation of His glory….Zion is to be regarded as the similitude of the Mother of the Redeemer, Mary. For in the Zion which is built, there are deposited the Ten Commandments of the Law which were written by His hands, and He Himself, the Creator, dwelt in the womb of Mary, and through Him everything came into being.” (See Part I, Chapter 11).

Hiywot, it seems to me as if there are some Ethiopians who place a much greater importance on their possession of the Ark of the Mosaic Covenant than they do to their relationship with the Ark of the New Covenant (Saint Mary). Have you experienced this? If so, what do you think is the cause of the over-emphasis of the former Ark?

Well, I agree that we should emphasize its symbolism of Our Lady Zion, the mother of God. But this should not mean that we must reduce the Ark of the Covenant as a useless artifact devoid of God’s power. In fact, because of what it bears, it truly is God’s power among us, and of course, a very important object in our church. I do believe it bears God’s power as the Mother of God bear God with us.