On 10/05/2012 Miguel75 wrote:>On 10/05/2012 nmonteith wrote:>>I think what I've learned from this discussion is that there is no 'simple'>>formula as there is lots of variables.>>Agreed, there are lots of variables but I still reckon there are some>simple principles that could be documented, in one easy to find place,>for noobs like myself;>>Impact Force (what it means)>A simple breakdown of how to calculate forces in a fall (a-la Ollie's/Mikl's>post in the daisy thread)>Fall factor>Anchors (angles and the corresponding force)>Etc>>While there is tons of info tucked into lots of nooks and crannys here>on Chocky, having it in one place will make it easier to access..>>I'll make a start on collating some info tonight.

Could probably make it add it to the articles section of Chockstone. I learnt a couple of useful things from that bit - mostly the bunny eared figure of 8 knot - made it sooooooo much easier to use the rope to set up an abseil anchor.

On 10/05/2012 One Day Hero wrote:>>I weigh (yeh right) 1 kg...and have a 1kn (forgive me rounding>>in your abuse) strength harness. >>So, you either meant to type 100kg or 10N........or you're trying to trick>people into thinking you typed one of those things>>

So yore either calling me stupid or fat. Nice

CAN'T YOU REED DUMBARSE. I SED I WAS ROUNDING.

Anyway, back on topic 25 of those reject votes were from me - thank god chocky doesn't have a "I want to stick my tongue up your butt" option.

Hey Miguel75, this shit is all over the interwebs, has been posted here many times and you were usually part of the discussion, so if you haven't got it by now, why is it you think you may have a clue if it is all put up here in one place.

On 10/05/2012 One Day Hero wrote:>On 10/05/2012 bomber pro wrote:>>>>So yore either calling me stupid or fat. Nice>>I'm not saying you can't be both.>>>>Anyway, back on topic 25 of those reject votes were from me - thank god>>chocky doesn't have a "I want to stick my tongue up your butt" option.>>I was kinda hoping they might install a "If you want to sleep with my>wife, that's ok with me" button

[Post edited by Chockstone Moderator.
Play nicely or expect time out bomber pro.
This is becoming tedious, so next time there will be no warning and you can look forward to being able to log in again after two weeks.
I sent you a PM to be sure you get the message.]

On 10/05/2012 bomber pro wrote:>Hey shorty - serious question (try modelling this one Oli):>>[Post edited by Chockstone Moderator].>
I've always found that the ability to find detail, whether from experience or imagination were ultimately one and the same thing. And that because I am able to understand this I can't help but wonder why it is that you are interested in the removal of my tongue from someone else's bum.

Channelling my inner davidn......

bomber - You could drive 15 minutes to St Kilda any night and relieve all that built up inner tension for less than $100. You'll save on your internet bill.

On 10/05/2012 rightarmbad wrote:>Hey Miguel75, this shit is all over the interwebs, has been posted here>many times and you were usually part of the discussion, so if you haven't>got it by now, why is it you think you may have a clue if it is all put>up here in one place.

Ouch! I'm not looking to reinvent any wheels here. There are so many informative posts just floating in the Chockstone ether (apart from the bum and tongue ones above), I reckon bringing a bit of order to them would be helpful for noobs like myself. You blokes with a clue can continue on continuing on...

If these bolts are the ones I am thinking of (Green lane) then they are ones which I put in.

They are two 10mm U bolts placed in good rock (for Brooyar). They were placed specifically for this purpose, however they were never intended to be used by themselves.

For the set up I did when I was in Australia (I am currently living in Canada, which is why I appear to be posting at 3am) my backup line (10.1mm dynamic rope) ran from a very large gum tree, down to the two U bolts where they connected to both bolts using a butterfly knot clipped to a sling tied as a sliding X which was connected to the bolts. I used Steele biners for these connections or doubled and opposed aluminium biners. The rope then ran across the chasm to the massive 16mm (or are they 18mm) ring bolts placed by the national parks service. I would connect into two of these using a cordalette which in turn connected to the rope using a butterfly knot. The rope then ran up the hill and terminated at another large gum tree.

The rope stretching across the chasm was hand tensioned (just so it would not sag), the slackline was attached to separate slings (i.e. not the ones which anchored the rope). The rope and the slackline were then taped together using finger tape at about 1-1.5m intervals.

The walker would tie into a ~1.5m 11mm dynamic rope which would tie into two steele rap rings which the slackline and the backup line would run through (you don't want to use carabiners as they can cross load or snag).

The entire setup, including the bolts which I placed, was inspected before we walked, during the session and after the session. I never saw any sign of damage or cracking of the rock.

I hope that clears things up a bit, I did quite a lot of research into this setup before doing it. The bolts are incredibly well camouflaged, to the extent that even I have trouble spotting them from the ground.

Using fixed anchors, either for slacklines or climbing, requires a bit of common sense and experience.
The other day I witnessed four people rely 100% on 2 fixed bolts.
One was abseiling, so bolts were weighted;
one was seconding, so if he fell the bolts would be further loaded;
the belayer and one other were tied into the same anchors.
The amount of 'biners clipped into the same point and all running at different angles provided the potential for a cross loaded biner under stress.
The two at top had gear on their harnesses but no back ups.
When I suggested not relying on bolts alone for a big group, they reckon it was completely safe.
Good thing it was stellar Arapiles rock and not some manky choss.

On 11/05/2012 STEALTH wrote:>Using fixed anchors, either for slacklines or climbing, requires a bit>of common sense and experience.>The other day I witnessed four people rely 100% on 2 fixed bolts.>One was abseiling, so bolts were weighted;>one was seconding, so if he fell the bolts would be further loaded;>the belayer and one other were tied into the same anchors.>The amount of 'biners clipped into the same point and all running at different>angles provided the potential for a cross loaded biner under stress.>The two at top had gear on their harnesses but no back ups.>When I suggested not relying on bolts alone for a big group, they reckon>it was completely safe.>Good thing it was stellar Arapiles rock and not some manky choss.

Did you know, the other day I saw a dude climbing and only clipped a single draw into the first bolt! I couldn't believe it! That's an accident waiting to happen! What if he fell and the quickdraw snapped! He should have at least had a steel locking biner clipped into it with a sling girth hitched to the bolt to back it up and then placed a few bits of trad gear!

On 11/05/2012 Olbert wrote:>On 11/05/2012 STEALTH wrote:>>Using fixed anchors, either for slacklines or climbing, requires a bit>>of common sense and experience.>>The other day I witnessed four people rely 100% on 2 fixed bolts.>>One was abseiling, so bolts were weighted;>>one was seconding, so if he fell the bolts would be further loaded;>>the belayer and one other were tied into the same anchors.>>The amount of 'biners clipped into the same point and all running at>different>>angles provided the potential for a cross loaded biner under stress.>>The two at top had gear on their harnesses but no back ups.>>When I suggested not relying on bolts alone for a big group, they reckon>>it was completely safe.>>Good thing it was stellar Arapiles rock and not some manky choss.>>Did you know, the other day I saw a dude climbing and only clipped a single>draw into the first bolt! I couldn't believe it! That's an accident waiting>to happen! What if he fell and the quickdraw snapped! He should have>at least had a steel locking biner clipped into it with a sling girth hitched>to the bolt to back it up and then placed a few bits of trad gear!>>Climbers these days just don't understand the dangers!

Yes you are certainly right Olly, not to mention all those silly buggers suspending gear and themselves off hanging bolt belays, and then even worse hauling their loaded bags, portaledges etc off same, up climbs at Buffalo!

On 11/05/2012 STEALTH wrote:>Using fixed anchors, either for slacklines or climbing, requires a bit>of common sense and experience.>The other day I witnessed four people rely 100% on 2 fixed bolts.>One was abseiling, so bolts were weighted;>one was seconding, so if he fell the bolts would be further loaded;>the belayer and one other were tied into the same anchors.>The amount of 'biners clipped into the same point and all running at different>angles provided the potential for a cross loaded biner under stress.>The two at top had gear on their harnesses but no back ups.>When I suggested not relying on bolts alone for a big group, they reckon>it was completely safe.>Good thing it was stellar Arapiles rock and not some manky choss.

On 11/05/2012 STEALTH wrote:>The other day I witnessed four people rely 100% on 2 fixed bolts.

At least they were fixed bolts. The other day I saw 24 people, rely 110% on two thirds of a non-fixed, half rusted, mild steel 1/4" carrot which was just sitting on top of a pile of back issues of Rock from the 80s. Plus they were cross loading the FUCH out of it. Luckily they had backed it up with a massive pile of self righteousness, so they were okay.