Video 6:12
Child protection interview

Transcript

MELINDA JAMES, PRESENTER: An inquiry into child protection began its public hearings in Darwin this week. One submission came from the Northern Territory Council of Social Service, accusing the Territory government of spending just a third of the funds provided by the Commonwealth for child and family services. NTCOSS has made similar allegations about Territory government spending before. And I'm joined now by the treasurer of NTCOSS, Barry Hansen, who also told the inquiry this week about his personal frustrations with the Territory's child protection system over his 35 years as a foster parent. Barry Hansen joins me now. Welcome to the program.

BARRY HANSEN, NTCOSS: My pleasure.

MELINDA JAMES: Barry Hansen, you've had 35 years with the system. This week you described it to the inquiry as being irreparably broken. Tell us a little bit about your experiences being a foster carer in the Territory.

BARRY HANSEN: One of the frustrations in recent times has been that there are two categories of foster carers - those who are supported by Darwin Family Day Care or an agency who receive payment for their time, they receive the equipment they need, they receive emotional support, relevant training and are generally well looked after, whereas the volunteer foster carers who are part of the FACS system, virtually none of that applies and you feel like you are not at all valued.

MELINDA JAMES: So what made you continue, you and your wife continue to do it in that case?

BARRY HANSEN: For a long while we've been foster carers, despite the assistance, if I can use that word, of FACS, rather than because of anything they've done. It's a matter of commitment to a particular task, and you need to see it through.

MELINDA JAMES: You've been a foster parent for 35 years. Have you seen any improvement in the system over that time?

BARRY HANSEN: I've seen fluctuations, but, overall, no.

MELINDA JAMES: And what do you think needs to happen, what kind of support needs to be given to foster parents to improve the situation, because they provide a key role within the system as a whole. Without foster parents, where would these children go?

BARRY HANSEN: There is nowhere for many of them to go. If they have challenging behaviours or are high-needs children, then there is virtually nowhere for them to go.

MELINDA JAMES: And that's what you told the inquiry?

BARRY HANSEN: Not specifically, but the inquiry's asked my wife and I if we'll make a personal submission and we contemplate discussing some of those issues.

MELINDA JAMES: Let's move on to the submission you made as the Treasurer of NTCOSS. Now, the Territory government says it's increased the child protection budget by 117% since 2005, but according to your analysis the Territory government has consistently, since about 2003, has spent only about a third of the funds provided by the Commonwealth Grants Commission for child and family services. How can that be that the Territory government says it's boosted funding by that much, but still you say they spend only a third?

BARRY HANSEN: Because the assessments from the Commonwealth Grants Commission have increased significantly over that period, so all they've done is maintain pace with the increase, and they've still stayed at those high-20s, low-30s, as a percentage of the assessment by the Commonwealth Grants Commission which is the funds that are provided.

MELINDA JAMES: So, the Territory government's also defended itself against your claims today by saying that it spends three times as much per capita on child protection than the national average.

BARRY HANSEN: That's half the story, the other half of the story is that they get about seven and a half, or thereabouts, times the national average in the money they get, so the the national average spending on family and children's services across Australia is 133 dollars or thereabouts, per person, per capita. the Northern Territory gets 997 dollars per capita, and spends 330. They get the higher ammount because the Grants Commission makes allowances and adjustments for the high cost of service delivery in the Northern Territory.

MELINDA JAMES: Where is the rest of the money going in that case? Is there any evidence of where the government is spending more than it's given?

BARRY HANSEN: A couple of areas, one of which is culture and recreation is one area they spend more than the Grants Commission assess and provide.

MELINDA JAMES: So, how much more do they spend on sport and culture than is provided by the Commonwealth?

BARRY HANSEN: I think, from memory, that's about double.

MELINDA JAMES: So, double on sport and culture, but only a third on child protection, according to you analysis of the figures?

BARRY HANSEN: And it's figures that are available to everybody on the Commonwealth Grants Commission website.

MELINDA JAMES: States and Territories can choose to spend that money whichever way they like.

BARRY HANSEN: Yes, there's no legal obligation on them to spend it in the way it's provided, just that there is a uniform basis of assessment across Australia to divvy up the GST revenue-sharing money.

MELINDA JAMES: Because, just finally, we have on this very program earlier this year the Chief Minister defended himself against these kind of allegations, saying that there's been inquiry after inquiry, and, as he says, none of these inquiries has found any evidence of those allegations that get put. A Senate inquiry into this that was sparked by your claims that the Territory government's mis-spent in Indigenous Affairs and on social services billions of dollars in grants from the Commonwealth. That Senate inquiry in 2008 in effect cleared the Northern Territory government.

BARRY HANSEN: No, that's not correct. What that Senate inquiry found was that under the terms of reference referred to the Commonwealth Grants Commission funding formula and the four Labor Senators, the majority of that inquiry, found that it wasn't a funding formula, it was an assessment, and therefore they made no finding in relation to the NT Government's spending priorities, and I think it's somewhat misleading of the Chief Minister to say that the inquiry cleared them.

MELINDA JAMES: Barry Hansen, on that note, unfortunately, we have run out of time, but thank you very much for joining us.