WD used to be as much about marketing and business of writing as the actual writingwhich is how i learned to sell my work to many publications starting junior year at the uni one of the first sales was equivalent to usd800 today -- for a short filler in a technical magazine

for sure one thing that has not kept up with inflation is what writers get paidmagazines have been paying less for decades while more people are trying to sell to them and the internet 'publishers' pay pennies when they dont try to get you to write for exposure or for your clip file

so my take is that it is a given that you must write well or at least good enough but to be published requires more than thatto get published you need to know how to market your workand if you self publish you have to promote your work if you want significant sales

Writers understand they may have to do both - self-publishers definitely. But they are still two separate "jobs". Most successful self-publishers are those who know when the story's finished, they have to switch gears, moving from author to publisher. Unfortunately, a lot writers don't know how to do that - in fact, know very little about publishing past putting it via some distribution company like CreateSpace.

"The trick of the fiction writer is the beautiful lie..." Thomas Fox Averill

[quote="rob-lost"]==feel free to weigh in on either part if you can add anything to answer pls' query==pls didn't query anything. He reminded us all of the core focus of WD (and therefore, of this forum).

Moderators do that from time to time when responding to troublemakers.[/quote]========

Did you take absolutely no notice that the forum administrator declared just about every one of your "outliner vs pantser" threads as "going nowhere"? Have you take absolutely no notice that multiple people have spoken about your denigration and antagonism, while no one defends your value as a frequent poster?

That isn't proof positive of anything. But they should be very strong hints that JUST MAYBE you should reexamine how you are engaging other people.

Let's assume for a moment that you are correct. Ostarella is a troublemaker. Even then, you are still incorrect, because you say she is the only one.

Is she incorrect that you have not had fiction works published? Is it a personal attack to point this out? Even if so, what obligates you to respond in kind that everyone here is an amateur, or a wannabe? Because I haven't seen you acknowledge anyone, not even published fiction authors, as anything else.

You have not responded to any post that asks you to examine your own behavior. I have no expectation that you're going to change now.

Which is sad. You;'ve thrown out the occasional post that hints as someone with more to offer. But you make no effort to be constructive, or even informative. At least none that I've seen. And no, an occasional non-negative post does not count as constructive to me.

Did you take absolutely no notice that the forum administrator declared just about every one of your "outliner vs pantser" threads as "going nowhere"? Have you take absolutely no notice that multiple people have spoken about your denigration and antagonism, while no one defends your value as a frequent poster?

That isn't proof positive of anything. But they should be very strong hints that JUST MAYBE you should reexamine how you are engaging other people.

Let's assume for a moment that you are correct. Ostarella is a troublemaker. Even then, you are still incorrect, because you say she is the only one.

Is she incorrect that you have not had fiction works published? Is it a personal attack to point this out? Even if so, what obligates you to respond in kind that everyone here is an amateur, or a wannabe? Because I haven't seen you acknowledge anyone, not even published fiction authors, as anything else.

You have not responded to any post that asks you to examine your own behavior. I have no expectation that you're going to change now.

Which is sad. You;'ve thrown out the occasional post that hints as someone with more to offer. But you make no effort to be constructive, or even informative. At least none that I've seen. And no, an occasional non-negative post does not count as constructive to me.[/quote]=============

apparently your overlooked that ostarella is the one causing those threads

i engage people the way they engage with me

tat for tit is the optimum strategysometimes nobody winsread the bookevolution of cooperationby rappoport

logical fallacycan 8 billion idiots be wrong ?you support ostarella so you cant see the trouble she causes

her claim that i have not published fiction is irrelevanti have written iti have read itbut morei have written PAID AND PUBLISHED in national publications which gives me some writing credentialsostarella has done nothing except be a legend in her own mind

i have worked with small publishing companies and do know the publishing biz more than what ostrella learned at some conferenceor made up from what she thought she knew

it is personal attack the way she does itand totally meaningless as she has not published fiction either so she has no basis to say i dont know how to writeand a logical fallacy in ASSuming that you have to have had written fiction to be a writer andor know anything

my behavior is a reflection of everyone elseyou need to look in the mirrortell ostarella to put a lid on it and give it a restthen we can get down to focusing on writing not personalities