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helix2301 sends this quote from CNET:
"LG's reluctance to embrace Windows Phone 8 underscores the difficulties that the platform faces with both consumers and vendor partners. LG was one of the early partners that signed on with Microsoft, releasing the LG Quantum in the first wave of Windows Phone devices. Microsoft's has a great relationship with Nokia, which is considered in the industry first among equals when it comes to Microsoft partners, has some vendors reassessing their own support for the operating system. Over the past year or so, LG has been focusing on Android and has started building phones running on Mozilla's Firefox mobile OS."

when given the choice between "you will take this OS as it is, we are not listening to end users or "something else", the manufacturers and users are choosing "something else", after all LG wants to sell phones not participate in some US software companies lock in power games bollocks

Considering the quality of some of their products that we've installed in the last year this is probably a good thing for Microsoft. More often than not when I hear (L)users complaining about how such-and-such problem is all Microsoft's fault a little bit of digging exposes that the real problem is crappy hardware or crappy software, not the OS.

More often than not when I hear (L)users complaining about how such-and-such problem is all Microsoft's fault a little bit of digging exposes that the real problem is crappy hardware or crappy software, not the OS.

That'd be fine, assuming that you define "operating system" as the kernel. If users of a particular operating system have difficulty adapting to its user interface paradigm, are the user-space components that implement the user interface "software" that can be "crappy"? I've read a few arguments that a display without touch input is "crappy hardware" for running Windows 8, but then that'd mean almost every desktop PC monitor is "crappy hardware" because it doesn't encourage an interaction modality known for

I've read a few arguments that a display without touch input is "crappy hardware" for running Windows 8, but then that'd mean almost every desktop PC monitor is "crappy hardware" because it doesn't encourage an interaction modality known for inducing gorilla arm.

I didn't know that having a touchscreen makes the keyboard and mouse melt away and force you to use only the touchscreen thereby turning you into a gorilla.

I think the complaint was that some of the controls in Windows 8 without a touch screen, such as the invisible corners to activate the Frosted Lucky Charms bar and shut down the machine, are too hard to learn.

Dude Win 8 is deep fried ass, i'm sorry but it is. There are so damned many brain dead decisions that were made that make it not worth having frankly it just staggers the mind. i could sit here all morning typing out all the problems with Win 8 but this video [youtube.com] says it better than I ever could. All I will add is this is the first time since WinME that I am NOT carrying MSFT's latest OS in the shop because frankly? Nobody wants it. I had people passing up a really sharp system that was running Windows 8 to t

That's the problem with being ubiquitous, microsoft have worked hard to make users consider windows to be the whole package including hardware, so users won't see the hardware as a blank canvas on which they could run all manner of different software.But it cuts both ways, if the hardware is garbage people blame windows.

I completely agree. I've always seen LG as damaging to the Windows Phone ecosystem. I think the current line up - Nokia, Samsung, HTC, Huawei is perfect. In fact if I was Microsoft I would not allow anyone else to make WP devices.

Well, we have a cheap LG DVD/Netflix player that runs some primitive Linux kernel which will hang about once or twice a month and needs to be unplugged to reboot it. The only other LG products that I have touched are their network switches, which are the worst pieces of junk that I have ever had the misfortune to deal with in my entire working career. You think a Belkin or D-Link switch is crap? You should try these things.

We had to install 66 of them in a migration from analog to IP cameras. So far

So that they can screw up the UI with their shitty skins, install unremovable always running crapware and then not update it for a couple of years like they do with their Android phones? And then be beholden to stupid carrier crapware? Thank heavens Microsoft doesn't allow that crap to happen.

For example look at what HTC and the carriers install on Android and which cannot be uninstalled and then cause serious security issues which are never fixed.

I'd be very surprised if my HTC One V, on Koodo Mobile here in Canada, came with those preinstalled....

Are you entirely sure that it's HTC that's adding that crap, and not Sprint? None of the apps you have listed came preinstalled on my phone.In fact, the only non-Google apps that came preinstalled on my phone were Dropbox, HTC Hub, Polaris Office (full), Sound Hound, and TuneIn Radio. I doubt most users would complain about any of those, even if they don't use them. And having a fully licensed copy of Polaris Office out of the box on a $150 phone is actually pretty nice of them....

yeah, his crapware is sprintware, not android ware. But his point is that he can't take it off an android phone, while he can take it off his win8 phone. Interesting, if true (and I have no real reason to doubt it) and if valid then it makes for a real objection to android. I know my wife's phone has some crap from ATT that she doesn't use and gets POed about having. But when I offer to cyanagen it she shies away. So, its her phone ya know, if somebody wants to bitch and complain, let 'em.

For example look at what HTC and the carriers install on Android and which cannot be uninstalled and then cause serious security issues which are never fixed.

You can't uninstall them, true. But you can disable them, which is effectively equivalent except they still take up disk. And those extra Android apps aren't burning that much disk compared to, say, a default Surface install.

You do know that Surface is not a phone and runs different operating system from Windows Phone devices right?

This is the same "Surface" they used to slap on an interactive coffee table, right? Don't even get me started on Microsoft's fucked up branding and marketing strategies...

In any case, the comparison is legit. The parent was about Android. The same Android which runs on my phone, tablet, and periodically my netbook. It's in the same function space as Surface, particularly if you're looking at Surface

It's often carriers rather than the phone manufacture that bundle all manner of crap, and other modifications to the firmware...

Often you can go back to the manufacturer's default (ie not network branded) firmware for a much better experience, or you can buy a phone direct from the manufacturer which already has this firmware rather than buying it from your operator.In many cases you can also install a third party android firmware such as cyanogenmod.

I have had several phones which were crippled by carrier-specific firmware, missing features, features not working, instability, bloatware, poor battery life, and which were fixed by installing stock firmware.

or you install Cyanogenmod. You do realise it is unlocking tat is illegal, not jail-breaking!

Cyanogenmod IS Android. Crapware IS the carrier's doing.

You could of course, do a fresh install of Windows over the one that came with the kit - however, on most hardware, you can install something else than Windows. Apparently LG have noticed, as well as some users.

Why is this modded offtopic? he is simply pointing out, complete with citation i might add, that the carriers have been treating Android rather poorly and that Apple and MSFT have rules against carrier crapware. I mean who didn't know the carriers treat Android like a black billboard to splatter crap trying to lock you in or sell you shit?

This is why I frankly wouldn't be surprised if we only end up with three major phone carriers, you'll have MSFT/Nokia in last place, and Google/Motorola and Apple switchin

I don't want to go back to Palm, Firefox OS doesn't exist yet (they've yet to ship a product), so that leaves Android (which is a great choice because of the well developed ecosystem and ease of deployment). But you forgot about WebOS which is being sold off and is already fully developed by HP, and you forgot Chrome which is looking for someone to care about it.

The last time I bought an LG phone it died 4 times in 2 months and then battery broke a few months later. I've never seen a decent LG smart phone.

If they're shotgunning the OSes hoping for success then they're barking up the wrong tree. LG is the problem not Android, Windows, Ubuntu or Firefox and the solution needs to be from LG: better devices.

The last time I bought an LG phone it died 4 times in 2 months and then battery broke a few months later. I've never seen a decent LG smart phone.

If they're shotgunning the OSes hoping for success then they're barking up the wrong tree. LG is the problem not Android, Windows, Ubuntu or Firefox and the solution needs to be from LG: better devices.

Hum... LG does make crappy phones, but I have never had a problem with their reliability. In fact, from what I've seen, they seem to be quite durable and well-built. The problem is what they're built of. LG has beautiful phones with 4.3" screens, ICS and Adreno 200 - a GPU which was already obsolete in 2010. ( see Optimus L7). The whole L line is utter crap, in fact, being incredibly underspecced. Except for the L3, which would be cheap enough to be a good contender if not for that hideous screen. Really, t

- A lot of the older Sprint feature phones by LG are pure shit. The Rumor, the LX160, and others. The Rumor, Sprint's first feature phone with a slide-out keyboard, had numerous firmware updates to correct issues, including one where if you hit the wrong combination of keys the phone's memory would be zapped to the point where it would not know it's ESN and could not make a phone call. I hated LG for a long time after seeing that phone.

"Microsoft's has a great relationship with Nokia, which is considered in the industry first among equals when it comes to Microsoft partners, has some vendors reassessing their own support for the operating system."
Is this supposed to read that Microsoft and Nokia are considered equals, and Microsoft is giving preferential treatment to that vendor? Or is it supposed to read that Nokia has been withdrawing support, and so other vendors are shying away too? Can someone please review these summaries before t

The high end of the smart phone market is occupied by Apple and Samsung. Thats where money is being made. I just bought a Huawei android phone for my son for 60 bucks. Screen resolution and storage are not fantastic but it is great value for money. My current LG phone competed with the Huawei. It is in the same market. Going upscale to compete with Samsung is unlikely to work for LG. Going down scale to compete with Huawei might be possible, but I wonder if they have the manufacturing muscle to pull it off.

And for my money, Microsoft can burn in the 10th level of hell.... not for their phone OS, but for the fiasco they created in their abusive monopoly days. Just because they make an acceptable phone for some people doesn't erase the vomit-inducing tactics that got them to this "pinnacle of asshattery"....

Their phone OS might actually be good. I, and a percentage of the commenters on slashdot, don't care.:) Don't take it personally.

So you don't buy from Intel, Dell, Toshiba, Apple, MSFT, IBM, and HP...correct? After all every one of those either took bribes from either MSFT, or Intel, or both to make sure that wintel was the only game in town or in the case of Apple patent trolling to kill competition so you are gonna have a hell of a short list of hardware to choose from if you don't buy from any abusers.

I bought an LG / Google Nexus 4 a while back. They're less than half the price of other top-end smartphones, unlocked and with no contract. I put a Platinumtel SIM in it with the $10 for 60 days GSM plan, and set it to restrict background data. The network is T-Mobile. After a month I'm still on the first $10, having of course made extensive use of wifi.

As far as I can tell, I have all of the smartphone benefits without much of the cost.

Although I have not installed CyanogenMod on my Nexus 4, as I have on my Asus Transformer Infinity tf700, the option is available and I will probably eventually do so. I am installing nightlies every other day on the Transformer. I have the option not to use Google's services since I have control over the OS. IMO Google is selling the unit at parts cost, that's why it's from the Play store rather than another retailer.
Obviously, not being locked in is always considered in my choice of hardware.

Despite the fact that this is Slashdot, I'm surprised at the number of upvoted anti-MS epithets. I don't see how this needs to have anything to do with the merits of the OS itself when a CEO with an MBA and a Blackberry could easily come to this conclusion on a purely business case.

Neutral phone hardware developers would perceive a small market that requires investment to pursue. Most likely, LG's expected market penetration isn't large enough to justify the investment. And for the cynics, LG could also assume that, to loosely paraphrase Animal Farm, all carriers are equal to MS, but Nokia is 'more equal,' barring antitrust suits. This creates an additional small interest in starving WP of revenue to keep Nokia out of the ring.

Nokia on Lumia is supply constrained. Given the numbers they are very likely to remain supply constrained until at least 2015.HTC is currently supply constrained on the 8X. I don't know their future numbers.

Why? Not trying to be a smartass, I'm honestly curious. From what I saw of the 920 specs they weren't using anything really exotic, no cutting edge CPUs, no strange exotic screens so I am honestly curious as to what EXACTLY makes the Lumia harder to make than any other phone Nokia makes. Did I miss something? They using some weird size SSDs? Maybe a funky Wireless chip?

The companies aren't being clear about what is complex about this generation of phones to manufacture, but: Apple, BlackBerry, Motorola, Nokia, LG, HTC have all made comments about having complexity issues. All the major players except Samsung. I suspect it is a variety of things. Examples:

Foxconn complained about laying in this generation in ways that make it scratch resistant. Whatever they are doing was driving yields pitifully low during mid 2012.

This is why I think the ARM bubble, just as the X86 bubble before it, WILL burst...where else can you go? Samsung is testing a hexa-core SoC, Nvidia has a 5 core and Apple making "thin and light" the ONLY form factor you can frankly sell anymore means there is a VERY limited amount of room to fit the parts as well as a ridiculously small power envelope you gotta hit. Finally the average user won't "feel" any difference between a dual core and a hexacore, in the shop I've tested this with X86 and less than h

I think ARM is an interesting situation. I expect the mid-2013 cell phones to be on par with the good but not great laptops that ran Win2k, more or less the kinds of machines that were a bit underpowered for XP but for whom it was still tolerable. There is a real question about how much power people are going to need in their cell phones. On the other hand if you consider what Siri is doing that's a real time AI app doing NLP. You can use infinite power doing NLP. Probably for each doubling or triplin

In all fairness, different people have different tastes in things. One of the smartest guys I know is a unix expert but loves the "Bob" and Find-Puppy style features that Microsoft throws into their products. Do I understand it? No way, it completely baffles me, those things make my head hurt. Do I have to understand it? No way, whatever floats boats. As long as I'm not forced to use it, deal with it, or fix it, what do I care what others' taste in software or phones happens to be?

a Nokia Lumia running WP8 [is] compatible with everything else I already do and have.

Is this phone compatible with the priced applications, books, or movies that you purchased on Google Play Store when you owned the Nexus 4? (Or did you not own it long enough to buy any priced works?) Is it compatible with games whose developers have not yet ported them to Windows Phone 8?

Oh bullshit, that's just fanboy wanking. A SMART person uses the right tool for the job, and if that tool is BSD or Windows or iOS or whatever then fuck the fanboy bullshit and just use the right tool.

Case in point I won't say Win 8 is bad on a phone, i don't know as i haven't tried Win 8 on a phone or tablet yet, but I can say on the desktop its the WRONG tool for the job unless you are one of those 1% that have a touchscreen desktop or laptop. If you do have a touchscreen and only use your PC as a way to

Oh well. Who decides "right", you or me? One factor in "right" tool, is who I give money to in a business situation. And "right" for me means not supporting organizations with a criminal past, an organization with a history of shitting on its partners, an organization with a long history of not only ignoring standards, but deliberately breaking them, an organization who's most successful "innovations" come from copying someone else then using their quasi-monopoly to ram it down people's throats, an organization that has actually held back innovation, an organization that laughed out loud at the iphone, an organization that is in many respects clueless and survives primarily because of legacy monopolistic crap. I prefer to support organizations, companies and people that I trust, like and hope to see prosper.
Not to say everything MS ever did was bad, but there is enough bad there, that I choose to go the other way. I am happy with my Linux desktops, my Macbook, my ipad, my Nook, my android phone. There is nothing MS has that is "right" for me. And yes, I am a tech fanboy, I love this stuff when its done "right". All the respect in the world for Apple, even though I don't agree with everything they do -- but they do push the envelope, and they do do it pretty well. And Linux? Its the people's OS. The more of us that us it, the better if will get.

So you don't buy from, in no particular order...Dell, HP, Toshiba, Apple, MSFT, and Intel...yes? because i can give you a laundry list of citations, everything from Dell taking bribes to make the P4 the chip in Dell system even though the Athlon was faster AND lower powered, Apple and MSFT patent trolling, and HP and Toshiba taking bribes, so you buy from NONE of them, yes?

And Linux is a bad joke, I'm sorry but it is. There is a REASON why Linux has been free for 20 years and hasn't gained shit, its because

And Linux runs on my router...who gives a shit? Sure Linux works on disposable devices, you don't update them so the drivers don't break. Desktops, laptops, and you bring up tablets but they do NOT run Linux, they run ANDROID. Android has ONLY the Linux KERNEL and even that is controlled by GOOGLE. Think they take shit from Torvalds? Nope you'll get the kernel after Google decides its worth doing and not one second earlier and they sure as fuck isn't shitting out a new kernel every couple of months like Tor

Not to say that he isn't cherrypicking, but...Samsung is primarily making non-windows phones and devices.Blackberry had some sort of agreement with MS, I believe primarily related to Exchange compatability.HTC makes a mix of windows and android phones.

Motorola who was already struggling, and has been for a long time...Samsung who are making billions from Android devices, their windows phone sales are totally insignificant to them.Blackberry who's primary product is dependent on microsoft (blackberry server is windows only, and also tied closely to exchange).Palm were already dying on windows mobile, a platform with no future... HP killed webos without really pushing it properly.HTC started off doing very well with android, and are now being killed by sam

Yup. The other manufacturers are looking at Nokia sink into the swamp, and have absolutely no desire to tie the WP8 anchor around their legs and jump in the shark-infested waters of Microsoft's "ecosystem" (a word rich in irony when compared to Apple's App Store and Google Play).

No, read the article, their smartphone sales as a whole made a profit... A majority of those phones sold were the Asha series, which do not run windows, and a significant portion were also symbian based which again don't run windows.And this was also over the holiday season, which is traditionally the most profitable quarter.