Blah, Blah, Blah....Just more anti-Orthodox propaganda. Guys if this site is run by who I think it is, most people take what they say with a grain of salt. I believe the site is run by an Independent Fundamental Baptist group. The IFB's are very extreme (I know, as I was one of them). They believe that the KJV is the only true Bible and all others are Perversions from Hell. They think they are the only ones going to heaven (heck, when I converted to them from the Southern Baptist Church, I had to be rebaptized...), They hate alcohol, smoking, Contemporary Christian Music, any music that is not Baptist Hymns. These guys aren't to be taken seriously. They are a small fringe group who have some very weird ideas.

Do you think they should be hospitalized.? I say you betcha!

Whether you are a male or female, I might be inclined to marry you, if you make the above the template for every post you ever post here.

I love a great tag line.

This one is so brilliant I could discuss it all night (or at least for 45 minutes), but I am going back to sleep.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

so the sacraments aren't an absolute necessity?

When invited to a feast, do you stick with the portions that are the bare necessities? Our God is generous in His distribution of Grace, why wouldn't we wish to partake of Him fully?

For most of us, the sacraments are indeed necessary- as necessary as more than the mere "necessities" are to any man's sanity. For a very few God grants a greater economy- the baptism they receive is baptism by blood and they participate in the Eucharist by offering up their own body and blood to the Lord. They bypass the need for clergy and confession by being elevated to the rank of martyr.

No one would say the martyr converted at the very trial of another martyr and condemned upon this new confession is not part of the Church because they did not receive a triple immersion baptism, Chrismation, Confession, and Communion before being killed. But I doubt we're in a hurry to line up to take their way.

I agree. But I also would like to know what the absolute necessities are. is that so bad? how come no one ever talks about them too?

When you're talking about a God who can do anything, and for whom all things are possible, and who wishes all to be saved, speaking in such absolutes seems counter-productive. Rather than talking of necessities wouldn't it be better to ask what is helpful and productive in living the life in Christ? The question should not be "Can I live without the sacraments?" but rather "If they are indeed helpful and grace-full, why would I want to live without the sacraments?"

When you're talking about a God who can do anything, and for whom all things are possible, and who wishes all to be saved, speaking in such absolutes seems counter-productive. Rather than talking of necessities wouldn't it be better to ask what is helpful and productive in living the life in Christ? The question should not be "Can I live without the sacraments?" but rather "If they are indeed helpful and grace-full, why would I want to live without the sacraments?"

Wisdom!

Logged

"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

When you're talking about a God who can do anything, and for whom all things are possible, and who wishes all to be saved, speaking in such absolutes seems counter-productive. Rather than talking of necessities wouldn't it be better to ask what is helpful and productive in living the life in Christ? The question should not be "Can I live without the sacraments?" but rather "If they are indeed helpful and grace-full, why would I want to live without the sacraments?"

This is a great post of course and I think it points out a pernicious problem:

The conflation of philosophy and theology.

Both East and West are guilty of the above and it might be nearly impossible for some to imagine one without the other; however, a less confused world will be impossible till more people understand this radical problem and how it came to be.

But this would touch on so many aspects of Western thought (this includes the East) I doubt theology will ever be able to recover its radical appropriation of the divine rather than the conflation of the divine with being.

How are we to have theology without philosophy, going even farther, how can we have ANY knowledge without using our minds in a rationalistic manner? I don't understand the criticism against Scholasticism. All of this understanding things through our "being" or "feelings" or some other weirdo introspective stuff seems very vague to me, and even then, doesn't escape the fact that even our feelings and emotions are interpreted by the mind, therefore the mind is all we have.

When you're talking about a God who can do anything, and for whom all things are possible, and who wishes all to be saved, speaking in such absolutes seems counter-productive. Rather than talking of necessities wouldn't it be better to ask what is helpful and productive in living the life in Christ? The question should not be "Can I live without the sacraments?" but rather "If they are indeed helpful and grace-full, why would I want to live without the sacraments?"

you have a point here. I agree. But I actually need to know as much as I can about the absolute necessities. So I can shut some people's mouths. Because There have been people in my life, who have no life of their own, and they have been trying to tell me how to live mine.

How are we to have theology without philosophy, going even farther, how can we have ANY knowledge without using our minds in a rationalistic manner? I don't understand the criticism against Scholasticism. All of this understanding things through our "being" or "feelings" or some other weirdo introspective stuff seems very vague to me, and even then, doesn't escape the fact that even our feelings and emotions are interpreted by the mind, therefore the mind is all we have.

lol!!!are you me in a different dimesion?

My thoughts exactly. Thanks for your courage to express them for me. With all this criticism around. I am too scared to express all my thoughts, because I don't want more judgement than there already is.

How are we to have theology without philosophy, going even farther, how can we have ANY knowledge without using our minds in a rationalistic manner? I don't understand the criticism against Scholasticism. All of this understanding things through our "being" or "feelings" or some other weirdo introspective stuff seems very vague to me, and even then, doesn't escape the fact that even our feelings and emotions are interpreted by the mind, therefore the mind is all we have.