December 11, 2007

It’s the Shaking, Stupid

From The Quackometer I learn of the latest hilarious homeopathic complaints against the reality based community. Recent homeopaths’ letters to the Grauniad, include this previously unnoticed fundamental flaw in Ben Goldacre's reasoning:

Goldacre seems to think that homeopathic remedies are prepared by diluting substances. He omits the critical component of shaking ('succussion') between serial dilutions without which they would, indeed, be merely water rather than potentised substances.

Well of course – I see it now. Shaking. Because without the shaking after each dilution, homeopathy would be patently ridiculous. But now it makes perfect sense. Why didn’t they say so before? It’s shaking as well! Thanks for clearing that up.

You know, I think this argument proves one thing, namely that if homeopaths’ complaints were distributed according to homeopathic dilutions, they might actually be stronger.

What I wonder is, don't these people realize that the water we drink every day comes from sewage treatment plants?
I mean, you can put one and one together and come to the conclusion that, if all this homeopathy stuff were true, tap water would be really disgusting.

Oh wait, I forgot! The diluted substance has the opposite effect! Silly me!

Is the efficacity proportional to the number of times it's succussed ? If you shake it only one time, does that work?

Hm...applying homeopathic justifications, it would seem that it's most powerful when you've done the least amount of shaking. So I don't know why these folks are complaining. Let's shake it once, to satisfy the shaking requirement, and then give the patients the most potent medicine!

Arthur - you can't use stodgy old scientific methodology for something like that. The way to succuss is for each person to 'feel' the right way to do it, otherwise the negative energy will destroy the positive forces flowing in the tapwater.

I wonder if the homeopathy companies actually do the shaking part. Or do they know that they are just selling water and not bother with it to increase profits. Do they even bother with the dilution? Or do they just put water and sugar into some pretty colored glass with labels? Has anyone actually checked?

So if I were a terrorist I could put a couple of drops of strychnine in the river rapids upstream from a town's water supply and presto, the whole town's water supply is poisoned. Oops, I hope I haven't given them any ideas.

Techskeptic, to answer your question, there's a raging debate in homeopathic circles on the proper way to dilute.

I heard that the "German Way" is to succuss the container, then dump the contents, fill it with pure water, succuss, and pour it away again. The dilution is provided by the droplets that cling to the sides of the glass container.

In you dilute too far, say 200CH, I suppose you just have to dilute it to prevent it to become too potent, although there's never any risk of side effects anyways.

Hanneman the Law of Similars, "likes cure like", by taking an overdose of Chinchona bark, and observing that it caused sweat and tremors, just like malaria, for whick Chinchona was a known cure.

From that master experiment, Hannemann developped the tenets of his medecine. I'm not sure if he ever came up with a successful cure for Malaria, which was his objective. I heard homeopatic malaria remedies are being sold, with the caveat to also take clhoroquine or other medicaments as prescribed by a real doctor.

So, if strychnine causes muscles spasms and convulsions, properly diluted (and succussed) strychnine should be the perfect cure for cramps.

Wait a minute? Shouldn't the water in a homeopathic remedy make you dehydrated? And shouldn't taking less of it make the condition worse? So, here's a question - can you may a homeopathic cure for dehydration?

I have a theory about the development of homeopathy. Initially the "law of similars" seems to make some sense. If the processes of the body induce a particular response to an ailment, that response is in some cases an attempt by the body to return to homeostasis. Thus Hahnemann's "law" seems to make sense as it is a manual inducement of a similar biological state that can help the body fight the illness. So initially we have some medical tests and studies in this area published in early works like "Materia Medica Pura". But then things seem to take a diversion. High doses of the substances might cause illness (there are some truly horrid things given to people and some truly horrible reactions documented in Materia Medica Pura) so we'll give them less dosage. Over time this becomes less and less and "succussion" and excessive dilution becomes the norm. Could this be some level of economic greed perverting the development of the medicine? Without any double blind trials, and with the strength of the pacebo effect, maybe some 'enterprising' individual (Hahnemann?) along the way figures he can make a packet by basically selling water. And compared to some of the other medical practices of the day (like blood letting), drinking water would probably be a better course of action, and so would seem in comparison to be an effective treatment. So that's my theory. In an age of ignorance about the causes of disease, an enterprising individual makes a packet selling water as a cure.

I find the above comments by all very ridiculous.
Homeopathy has been used for a long time now. I would say let the world be, unless it is actually affecting your businesses and you dont like it - do you?

I would say let the world be, unless it is actually affecting your businesses and you dont like it - do you?

Ah, yes. Because something is only wrong if it directly affects you. Evil doesn't triumph when good men do nothing; if you don't speak up for the Jews and the Trade Unionists, I'm sure there'll be someone left to speak up for you.

Charlatans lying to people with real medical illnesses and trading them fake medicine for real money is evil, whether or not it's happening to me (or "my business"). And, color me crazy, but I don't think it's okay to let evil go unchecked.