Yeah, but Darren, does Bonds and McQuire's feats seem that great now that we know they were using medicinal advantages?

WTF does that have to do with anything? So do you just not enjoy sports? No football because we know players have used(are using) PED's....no baseball for the same reason....or basketball....obviously you have already mentioned cycling. I assume you have swore off the Olympics as well....?

There are whispers that players on the PGA Tour have been using PEDs.....God knows if it has infiltrated golf that tennis is juicing as well.... Have you taken a good look at the Williams' sisters.....

I'm with you...sports are all about doping, forget the TdF....I'm going to read a book.

If people are competing against each other at the highest level and there is money involved....most likely there are those that will push the limits with pharmacology.... The powers that be try to stay on top of this and usually have testing measures. Those caught are publicly ousted and most likely suspended....

In the end, I flip on the tube or go to the event and the thought doesn't cross my mind, really could not care less..... I loved the Mark McGwire/Sammy Sosa run in 1998 and still remember that Summer fondly.... Do I want an asterisk on the Bonds HR record....? Nope....

Yeah, I remember the McGwire/Sosa chase as well. Everyone was encapsulated by it. Both players appeared to be stand up kind of guys, now we find out they cheated. That is why most didn't give a sheet when Bonds broke the record.

I think there are very few in golf using PED's. They offer no benefit to a professional golfer, unless there is some substantial injury. PGA players are constantly calling rule infractions on themselves which in many cases costs them place money or the tournament.

Tennis is the same. Otherwise that guy that won the three day match last week, would not have gotten rocked in his next match solely on fatigue.

I think the podium will be the same as last year. Contador , Schleck, Armstrong.

Ill be there this year. cant wait. I ll be there for 2 weeks and I will be riding 3 stages and climbing, Mont Ventoux, Tourmolet, Ax-3 Domaines.
It will be crazy hard but Ill be on top of those 3 mountains one way or another.

Crazy finish with all the wrecks at the end today.... I had it TiVo'd & it ended about 2 minutes after the finish....no idea if anyone actually was injured.... Not disappointed to see Cavs go down...

Quote:

Originally Posted by three6ty

Ill be there this year. cant wait. I ll be there for 2 weeks and I will be riding 3 stages and climbing, Mont Ventoux, Tourmolet, Ax-3 Domaines.
It will be crazy hard but Ill be on top of those 3 mountains one way or another.

That is soooooo stinking cool. VERY jealous.... If I ever go to Europe, I will plan around the TdF for sure.... AGAIN....SUPER COOL.

Well I just planned out the mountain stages we are doing and when. ITS GOING TO BE A BITCH!!! But I cant wait to get tto the top of each Mountain!! Ill definately take pics at each mountain top and post when I get back. Wish me luck!!

Tough day for LA. Had 30 seconds on Contador....loses 50 second to him after the flat. Add to that he had to ride like a mad man to just lose 50.... That riding may cost him later....

Today was thought to be a day he could put some time into Andy and Alberto.....and just the opposite happens.... The tour is not over for LA, but this time is going to be difficult to make up....he is no longer the climber that both of them are....

Now just hoping for podium....but never know what will happen, as the first 2 paragraphs attest....

Yup, a tough bit of luck for Lance. Too bad. Cantador is riding well. It'll be interesting to see what kind of antics happen in the mountains. I'm not counting Lance out, but he's got a heck of a job ahead of him.

How about Cancellara. That guy's an animal. I'm pretty sure his only goal at the start of the day was to get his jersey back. You definitely can't say he doens't deserve it.

I think the next two weeks just got even more interesting. Can not wait to see how Radio Shack works to support Levi now, would love to see Lance jump off for some break aways just to shake up the whole race. Wife and I are now routing for Cadel and then Andy Schleck to win. No love for Contador from us. Would really like to see a few more sprinters beat Cav too. He started out sounding so thick and arrogant going into the tour, and now is so much more humble in interviews. HTC does still have a great lead-out train even with George on Team BMC now.

andy s. looked like the lance of old when he was attacking the last km of stage 8. he really found his form in the last few weeks. at the tour de suisse. he didnt look as good. in fact i think frank looked much better than him.

^ Thats pretty funny. I have to say Im not a big Mark Cavindish fan. This guy IMO comes across as if he is some super stud god to cycyling and he can barley drag his but over the mountians. In sharp contrast you have Thor hushovd IMO this guy is a stud. Yea he might not be able to out sprint Mark Cavndish but at least his whole team is not built on a Sprinter.
Cadel looked like he was in some serious pain I thought he was gonna cry. I hope Andy can win and Contador might find some bad luck because thats the only way IMO Andy is gonna win

lance kinda pisses me off. levi is still doing well and lance is just hanging out at the back of the pack getting dropped on every climb. and i think he has the energy to help but just doesnt feel like exerting himself. i wish he would get up there an help out his team mate. rant over.

Yea, his taking advantage of A. Schleck's mechanical was pretty douche IMO. He can blame it on possibly losing time to Sanchez or Menchov....or whatever he wants.... I think attacking yellow when down is pretty chitty....

It appears that camps are pretty split on this.... Though I would have gained immediate respect for Contador if he would have waited the few seconds he would have had to wait....

In the end, I think he still beats Schleck because of the ITT....so it would have given him good will....

I'm bummed on Lance, seems like he has just let off completely. There seems to be some talk of Radio Shack going for the team GC, but they are not looking strong enough to me for that at this point either. Levi is kinda just there in the top of the standings but really seems to lack the instinct to win.

Totally mixed on the whole AC vs Schleck deal. Slipping the chain sucks, but then 3rd and 4th place GC guys took off too. Why would Contador give time up to the next 2 guys in the GC standing? If all of them slowed down for a minute and let Andy sort things out that would have been cool, but I'm not sure if the table was turned if anything different would have occurred. It's racing.

I agree that Andy was not banking enough time on AC anyways. He needs like 1:30 to 2:00 on him for the final Time Trail. Tomorrow and the next day will be interesting!

First, Contador and Schleck don't take Menchov and Sanchez at all seriously (see yesterday for example). This is a 2-man race, at least to the point where Contador could have sat up and waited, or directed Menchov and Sanchez to wait.

Second, Contador clearly saw Andy had a mechanical problem and THEN launched his counterattack, blowing by Vino. This is not really grey area imo. You can think it's fine or whatever, but there is no doubt Contador put in a vicious attack at a time he knew his only rival was having a mechanical problem.

Contador is a turd..... It's bad enough he attacked Schleck when he slipped the chain. Let's face it, if Conturd wouldn't have gone, neither would anyone else. Like Paul mentioned, Vinny clearly let up when he saw the mechanical.

Heck, the day (or 2 prior), Conturd attacked his teammate Vinny within the last K, after he spent the entire day working in the break

Contador may be an expert of douche baggery but he sure can ride the mountains. He showed today he is more than a match for Schleck. Credit where credit is due, not contesting the stage win was a nice touch.

Well, let's not forget that when Andy's chain problem happened, he had dropped Contador. Contador has not looked the same today or throughout the tour to me. We will never know if Andy had that 39 secs back or whatever it was, plus whatever he might have gained if Contador had not been able to close the gap Andy had opened.

That's the problem with attacking when there's a mechanical problem, particularly in a close race. There's no denying it changed everything and basically eliminated Andy's chances of winning.

I was hopin', but barring an amazing attack by Andy, it wasn't going to happen. All Contador had to do was just hang on him, which he did. There were some good exchange of looks caught on the camera though!

I think Schleck will be the man next year. If he can improve his time trialing a bit more and get his brother's help to the end I think he'll be un-stoppable. He made a couple mistakes that likely cost him the tour. The first was not going earlier way back on about stage 11 (the day he got 10 sec's on Contador). I think he could have broken him that day. Also, losing the chain. No, it wasn't his fault, but man, that alone could have been the momentum shift that did him in. He made it close in the time trial. It was much closer than I thought it would be. Kind of heartbraking, really.

All in all, I thought it was a good tour. Nice to see Radio Shack on top in their first tour. It'll be interesting to see who leads that team next year. Leipheimer, or Horner?

I think Schleck will be the man next year. If he can improve his time trialing a bit more and get his brother's help to the end I think he'll be un-stoppable. He made a couple mistakes that likely cost him the tour. The first was not going earlier way back on about stage 11 (the day he got 10 sec's on Contador). I think he could have broken him that day. Also, losing the chain. No, it wasn't his fault, but man, that alone could have been the momentum shift that did him in. He made it close in the time trial. It was much closer than I thought it would be. Kind of heartbraking, really.

All in all, I thought it was a good tour. Nice to see Radio Shack on top in their first tour. It'll be interesting to see who leads that team next year. Leipheimer, or Horner?

I was watching some post tour show yesterday and it really does look like Andy lost chain due to cross chaining himself. When you see a head on camera angle, you'll see him tap the shifter and then the chain issue occurs. Looks like he tired to use his inner front and shift to the 13t rear while hard on the pedals. I know I can shift my SRAM bike under load and cross chain now and then too without issue, put I'm sure I don't put out the same power as these guys. Still a shame it happened. Would have really liked to have seen Andy in Yellow at the end.

Not sure about Radio Shack for next year. Great to see Horner climb up the standings, sad to see that Levi could not keep up. Maybe Radio Shack picks up a couple of other riders off season to get a new lead man for the Tour next year. There does seem to be a few other guys out there that on the right team and manage to avoid incidents should finish strong.

Levi & Horner looked pretty second rate compared to some of the other talent on tour, IMO Vinokourov is the most impressive all round "non star" rider I saw on the tour he is a big scary beast. The most significant moments on the tour was day of hell on stage 4? for Lance when he tasted the tarmac on multiple times & when Frank Schleck got punted out with a broken collar bone, it would have been a very different tour if he had been there to support Andy in the mountains.

Also, on the chain deal.... I couldn't believe how long it took him to get off the bike and get the chain back on. That should have taken about 2 seconds. Instead he was trying to roll it back on by shifting into the big ring. I've had that work on my mountain bike, but it rarely works on a road bike with a bigger inside chain ring. Oh well.... It's easy to be a spectator and comment on his mistakes.

Who else thiks the whole chain slip had NOTHING to do with Schleck loosing the Tour.
IMO Schleck lost the tour because he is or was not as strong as AC. Had Schleck not lost his chain im sure we would have seen AC try and rip the legs off of Schleck. Yes this would have been much more exciting but in the end I think the results would have been the same. with AC in Yellow.

When I watch the replay Schleck launched a attack. AC responded and didn't stop. Was it fair should have he waited????

I was bummed because Yea I wanted to see a One on One battle royal. I guess next year.

AC did drop a bit on my respect level but I thought it was cool that the next day Schleck and AC rode side by side and AC didn't jump infront of Schleck at the line and take away the win even though It looked like he had the power to win. Very much like how Lance gave a win or let Pantani ride across the line first as they rode together up a mountain finish.

Who else thiks the whole chain slip had NOTHING to do with Schleck loosing the Tour.
IMO Schleck lost the tour because he is or was not as strong as AC. Had Schleck not lost his chain im sure we would have seen AC try and rip the legs off of Schleck. Yes this would have been much more exciting but in the end I think the results would have been the same. with AC in Yellow.

I think if that chain doesn't slip, Schleck gains time on Contador that day....and goes on to win the tour. With the slip, Contador gains 39 seconds, which is the exact time he wins Yellow by...

What about the TT at the end. Lets just say he didnt slip the chain. And he finishes even with AC that day. Do you think he could have taken AC in a TT?

I don't think the time trial changes at all.......? Contador still get 31 seconds on Schleck....

I think the tour ends just like it did, but that Contador doesn't get that 39 seconds during the chain slip.... and Schleck gets a few extra seconds in that stage(where he was attacking), winning by those few seconds... Remember, Schleck had a 31 second lead going into the chain slip day....

It is 100% speculation, which is all we can do.... Some may say that Contador knew that he had the ITT time at the end, though he face didn't indicate that.....

In the end, I just don't know how you can say that the chain slip didn't make a difference, which just doesn't make sense to me... It made a Yellow Jersey difference.... Without the chain slip, Schleck wears yellow the rest of the tour....

Meh, Alberto was countering Andy's attack. If anyone, Andy should be mad at SRAM and the team mechanics. Nobody should be throwing a chain in the tour like that in 2010. Either the components were crap or the derailleur wasn't adjusted correctly. Either way, that's not the same as flatting or getting yanked over by some yahoo with a musette bag.

And who know what would've happened on the Tourmalet if Alberto hadn't gotten time on the prior stage.... too many variables.

Hopefully this just plants the seed for andy to come back for blood next year. It was a great race to watch.

Meh, Alberto was countering Andy's attack. If anyone, Andy should be mad at SRAM and the team mechanics. Nobody should be throwing a chain in the tour like that in 2010. Either the components were crap or the derailleur wasn't adjusted correctly. Either way, that's not the same as flatting or getting yanked over by some yahoo with a musette bag.

And who know what would've happened on the Tourmalet if Alberto hadn't gotten time on the prior stage.... too many variables.

Hopefully this just plants the seed for andy to come back for blood next year. It was a great race to watch.

Alberto was going to try to jump on Schleck's wheel, he had not done it..... There are those who might say he was not looking great.....

I am not making excuses for Schleck....just saying that the chain slip did matter....it was significant in the outcome. Rider error, bad luck, poor tune, act of God....doesn't much matter now....it happened and it cost him 39 seconds.....

Agree it was a fun race & there are too many variables to be assured of a different outcome....but it would have been 39 seconds in Schleck's favor....

We rode up Alpe D'Huez, Col du Aspine, Col du Tourmalet and rode parts of 2 other flat/hilly stages. The Tourmalet is just an Epic climb as well as Alpe D'Huez. Stayed in the same hotel at BMC and Cervelo down in Toulouse. Was at the top of the Tourmalet when they rode up and over on the Stage 17 and there were 10,000+ people at the top and it was electrifying.
I will post a few pictures when I get a chance.
Unbeleivable trip!!

Hey, trust me... Contador gave it all he had. He didn't want to win by the margin he did. If he had it in him he would have proven that he didn't win because Schleck dropped his chain. I think that ended up being a huge factor in the end. That could have been the climb that Schleck broke Contador on. He'd done it once before. Just because Contador matched Schleck and his accelerations a couple days later doesn't mean he had it in him that day. Also, I think that AC was really confident that he'd take more time out of Schleck on the ITT. Schleck proved himself very strong and resiliant.

If both men come to next years tour with the same fitness I think there'll be fireworks. Particularly if Andy has his brother there to help out in the mountains.

The Schleck brothers joining Radio Shack would be amazing. That team would be super strong. I don't think it'll happen though. I think there will be a new title sponsor for the Saxo Bank squad.

Word on the street is that the Schleck Brothers will be on a new team with a Sponsor from Luxemburg ( where they are from) kind of like when Astana started with Vino. It will basically be their team and they will have some interest ( ownership) of the team as well.

We will see how it plays out.

I tel you what though being there in person and seeing these guys off their bikes is kind of wierd. Most of them are like 5'5" -5"10 and weigh about 145. Looks like a good wind would knock them over. But it is amazing the amount of power they possess.

I tel you what though being there in person and seeing these guys off their bikes is kind of wierd. Most of them are like 5'5" -5"10 and weigh about 145. Looks like a good wind would knock them over. But it is amazing the amount of power they possess.

It is my excuse why I climb like a sprinter(really not, they would CRUSH me on a climb, but you know what I mean)..... At 6'2" 220....I am not exactly built like a cyclist. (far right, 45ish miles into the Tour de Park City)

At 6'0 155 I always wonder how you big guys go down hill so fast. Last week I got absolutely hosed going down Diablo by a giant. I was pushing as hard as I could and couldn't even stay on his wheel... Ha, ha, ha.

It is amazing looking at some of these guys. I'd be big compared to a lot of them. When I raced as a junior I was 5'11" and 135lbs. Climbing was like nothing.

What really amazes me is the number of calories and amount of water they go through. They said they try to get through 3 bottles per hour on the hot days. Yikes. That's like 15 water bottles over a long, hot stage.

I'm 6'2" and 185, get told all of the time I'm "manorexic", but then Pro riders my hight are 165ish to 170. I could not imagine being that lite. Not only do I enjoy being able to reach peanut butter jars on the top shelf, but I like to be able to open them and eat too!

CIE- Yes us large guys roll downhill fast, thats the way we catch up to the climbers!!!!

I talked with Cadel Evans and George Hincapie in the elevator and although George is tall about 6'3" it looked like i could snap him in half . Both were very approachable and were very responsive to some small talk . It was kind of cool how much the teams travel with. They have their Decked out Travel Bus, Their deck out Bike/mechanic/storage bus, at least 6 team cars and then a Transport van. All of this decked out in the team sponsor stuff. I have some pics Ill post next week when I get back home.