Welcome to HVAC-Talk.com, a non-DIY site and the ultimate Source for HVAC Information & Knowledge Sharing for the industry professional! Here you can join over 150,000 HVAC Professionals & enthusiasts from around the world discussing all things related to HVAC/R. You are currently viewing as a NON-REGISTERED guest which gives you limited access to view discussions

To gain full access to our forums you must register; for a free account. As a registered Guest you will be able to:

Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts.

Have you ever witnessed a man be falsely accused and prosecuted other than on TV crime shows?

If so, please give a clip of your experience.

No and no. What difference does that make? If you are just pointing out that Dorner's firing was outside the rules, I am probably just going to agree with you. I would trust the idiots at LAPD for no ethical standard at all, afteralll they did go shoot up innocent people in TWO separate incidents. Honestly, that was just as nutty as what Dorner did. Officers involved should never work in law enforcement again, end of career.

I actually would not be surprised if lying or perjury was used to can Dorner. I am not supporting the LAPD. But firing Dorner by any means was a good move apparently, as he turned out to be a murdering nutcase.

Most of us have been fired before, I certainly have, we do not go around killing people. Whether he was fired unfairly is moot. Murder-spree prone nutcases should not be on the police force. Dorner needed canned very badly, firing him was perhaps the one thing the LAPD did correctly. And the LAPD also needs to can those other idiots involved in the shooting incidents of innocents.

I think the whole LAPD needs to undergo some sort of state level or federal investigation. I had no idea such boobery could exist in a city police department of that size.

"You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

"I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

I hate to draw lines in the sand... it makes folks gather on each side RATHER THAN THINK CLEARLY. However:

How much Constitutional common sense has been applied to this Dormer issue? Seems to me the MSM (main stream media) has shaped the thinking of both liberals AND CONSERVATIVES.
I can understand liberals lining up with the MSM... I cannot understand nor accept conservatives doing so... they are IMO not practicing what they say they believe in. As far as I am concerned: SHAME ON YOU conservatives for letting the media manipulate your thinking.

There are ENDLESS questions not answered; There are OBVIOUS and NUMEROUS violations of the rule of law by sworn LE officers; The Constitution has bee TRAMPLED, yet the so called conservatives are not even mentioning this; There is a HUGE cover-up being spun onto the public... Yet before looking for answers, the conservatives (supposedly the smart ones) pass judgement and quit thinking. Show me the difference between a conservative and a liberal view on this issue... so far I do not see one.

IMO more DAMAGE was done to the conservative cause by not demanding the system seek the TRUTH.... rather jumping on the emotion of the moment. Children live out of their emotions... Adults attempt to think clearly... Which one is our nation doing on this issue?

This morning, I hear on the news Dormer is dead... he burned in a fire... a shot was heard as the fire started... then it is said there is no positive ID yet... Does the form of this statement not raise questions in the mind of anyone? Or do we just believe whatever the MSM feeds us... The same MSM who unconditionally supports BHO and all his anti-American stuff. The so called conservatives are showing their back sides... and they look more like their lower back sides...

So what is the Constitutional (and proper) way to handle this issue: An INDEPENDENT group of LE folks should come in and arrest Dormer ALIVE (no abuse)... Then a thorough investigation of the FACTS (without LAPD involved; ideally without ANY govt agency involved) should be conducted. Then a trial by jury needs to happen... BOTH a trail of the crimes Dormer committed AND a trial of the crimes LAPD and their leadership committed. Obviously this will never happen.
Wonder why... TPTB (the corrupt govt folks both in LAPD and LA and CAL state... and possibly BHO's administration) do not want it to happen. And IMO every time we as citizens do not DEMAND investigations and facts... we by our lack of action rubber stamp the corruption.
Some conservatives... Pfffft

Now here is the real shame: A person sitting on the fence... would see conservatives as just another group seeking power by playing public opinion... it is OBVIOUS the conservatives are not seeking the truth.

GA is gonna take a break from ARP... With a few exceptions he does not see folks he wants to converse with at this point... too much MSM and not enough common sense, not enough Constitutional thinking, and not enough seeking the truth.

There are other political forums with a lot more:
Common sense,
Constitutional viewpoints,
Seeking the REAL truth, and
A clear distrust of the MSM... in other words looking for the truth rather than jumping on a wagon just 'cause it feels good'. I do not want to see ANY complaints about PC thinking and behavior again... proof just happened PC was more important than truth in the Dormer case.

Shame... ARP USED to be a place where intelligent discussion 'could' happen... not at this point in GA's opinion. For the sake of the folks at ARP... I hope this changes.

Bye.

Very good post!

The sheriff’s did not have the right to execute him. They wanted revenge and to silence him and they knew the public would not object.

I heard they tore down every wall of that cabin until they got to the last one when they heard the shot. He was not waking out of there alive. The LAPD could not afford a trial.

Why shouldn't he? What does one have to do with the other? Why would a possibly invalid termination become valid when he shoots someone?

We like to put people in boxes because we are in too much of a hurry to move on to the next crisis to solve. His termination could have been as corrupt as they come because they found that Dinner was not a ‘team player’. IOW he was a whistle blower. How many whistle blowers are actively employed by the LAPD? They must have ways of coercing them or getting rid of them.

Dorner went nuts AFTER his epiphany about his highly revered LAPD.

Funny you like spin what conservatives say into a falsehood. Perhaps I need to repeat what I said again. I did not say I believed he was lying. I just said I would not "assume" he was telling the truth without hearing the other side. There are two sides to every story and not just the side of the murderer.

I'm sure in Dormer's mind he was terribly wronged but him saying that doesn't make it true or beyond a "reasonable" doubt like you and some others on here appear to be claiming. I for one don't like words being put into my mouth that I didn't say.

So if anyone questions what Dormer says, he is actually saying that Dormer was lying? That is how the game is played on the left. See this every day. I wish you and others on here would just comment on what I said instead of what you want to claim I said. Thank you, thank you very much

"I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."Barry Goldwater

I did not say I believed he was lying. I just said I would not "assume" he was telling the truth without hearing the other side. There are two sides to every story and not just the side of the murderer.

We’ve heard from the other side already. The lady cop did not kick that mentally handicapped man and Dorner got stellar, unbiased representation from his fellow cop. How can any of that be changed or unraveled now? Please tell.

I'm sure in Dormer's mind he was terribly wronged but him saying that doesn't make it true or beyond a "reasonable" doubt like you and some others on here appear to be claiming. I for one don't like words being put into my mouth that I didn't say.

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I feel it was worth investigating, but with Dorner dead that is next to impossible now. Like I said, he is a whistle blower. How many whistle blowers are employed in the ranks of the LAPD?

Poppycock! He had to have been mentally unstable prior to any "epiphany" or being fired. If rational and sane people went off the deep end and started killing people every-time their dream bubble was burst we would have people going on vengeful murder sprees every single day.

If that is the way you feel than remind me to stay away from Long Beach next time I visit So. CA because I don't want to be without a CCW (how you like how I slipped that one in LOL) just in case you have an epiphany over something or otherwise stub your toe.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

Poppycock! He had to have been mentally unstable prior to any "epiphany" or being fired. If rational and sane people went off the deep end and started killing people every-time their dream bubble was burst we would have people going on vengeful murder sprees every single day.

The question is whether Dorner performed his duties as a cop well or not. Whether he was justified in rolling over on his supervisor? Whether they banned against his attempted whistle blowing efforts?

Can an alcoholic run a business well?
Can a postal worker do a good job before ‘going postal’?
Can a wife beater hide his tendencies and be a respectable employee?

The answer is yes, they can. Being convicted of ‘going postal’ does not mean you were not a good employee performing your duties per company policy.

There will be no interest in the validity of Dorner’s claims, no investigation or uncovering of the truth of what happened because of attitudes like yours. We will never know what set off this potentially crazy cop to go off the deep end.

If “going postal” negates all your credibility then moving on to be, say, an attorney should reinforce your claims right? It shouldn’t only work one way.

In my younger days when I got speeding tickets I attended a lot of traffic schools. I found one instructor that was an ex-LAPD Officer. He went on and on about how corrupt and incompetent the LAPD was. He said cops will write tickets not knowing what they are writing. That they can beat you in court due to experience, not content. He taught us how to beat them at their own game.

His last day on the force came when he was chasing someone through backyards. He came over a fence and was nearly shot by one of his own. He went on to be an attorney.

In 1986 I graduated from a police academy in Northern California. The opinion that the LAPD is corrupt was the unofficial position of all my academy instructors and the academy lawyers teaching our classes. At least all of those willing to comment or discuss the LAPD.

In 1986 I graduated from a police academy in Northern California. The opinion that the LAPD is corrupt was the unofficial position of all my academy instructors and the academy lawyers teaching our classes. At least all of those willing to comment or discuss the LAPD.

The question is whether Dorner performed his duties as a cop well or not. Whether he was justified in rolling over on his supervisor? Whether they banned against his attempted whistle blowing efforts?

Can an alcoholic run a business well?
Can a postal worker do a good job before ‘going postal’?
Can a wife beater hide his tendencies and be a respectable employee?

The answer is yes, they can. Being convicted of ‘going postal’ does not mean you were not a good employee performing your duties per company policy.

There will be no interest in the validity of Dorner’s claims, no investigation or uncovering of the truth of what happened because of attitudes like yours. We will never know what set off this potentially crazy cop to go off the deep end.

If “going postal” negates all your credibility then moving on to be, say, an attorney should reinforce your claims right? It shouldn’t only work one way.

In my younger days when I got speeding tickets I attended a lot of traffic schools. I found one instructor that was an ex-LAPD Officer. He went on and on about how corrupt and incompetent the LAPD was. He said cops will write tickets not knowing what they are writing. That they can beat you in court due to experience, not content. He taught us how to beat them at their own game.

His last day on the force came when he was chasing someone through backyards. He came over a fence and was nearly shot by one of his own. He went on to be an attorney.

Stay focused dude....I said he was mentally ill before taking action. I said nothing about being able to keep it hidden. I'm no clinical psychologist but I did take several courses while in College as I found it very interesting. As a result, I am of the opinion that allot of if it is voodoo. If a person is devious enough, lives within a mild state of psychosis, or is just plain evil with no conscience, they can hide it if the really really want to.....but they are still sick.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

In 1986 I graduated from a police academy in Northern California. The opinion that the LAPD is corrupt was the unofficial position of all my academy instructors and the academy lawyers teaching our classes. At least all of those willing to comment or discuss the LAPD.

Yeah, I knew several Orange County Sheriff's (Deputies), some Placentia and Fullerton P.D., and they said the same thing. I tested for the L.A, Sheriff department once but failed the interview after taking all the physical tests. My father and one of his Deputy buddies told me "what ever you do, don't say 'Uhh' before a reply". Thanks for planting that in my brain....that's all I could do during the interview and I never did it before or since. LOL Oh well, must have been a God thing.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

GA is gonna take a break from ARP... With a few exceptions he does not see folks he wants to converse with at this point... too much MSM and not enough common sense, not enough Constitutional thinking, and not enough seeking the truth.

There are other political forums with a lot more:
Common sense,
Constitutional viewpoints,
Seeking the REAL truth, and
A clear distrust of the MSM... in other words looking for the truth rather than jumping on a wagon just 'cause it feels good'. I do not want to see ANY complaints about PC thinking and behavior again... proof just happened PC was more important than truth in the Dormer case.

Shame... ARP USED to be a place where intelligent discussion 'could' happen... not at this point in GA's opinion. For the sake of the folks at ARP... I hope this changes.

Bye.

Now look at what you mean old conservatives have done. You've run off gahvactech and he is now at the land of his people, Conspiracies"R"Us.com

You folks should be ashamed. All gahvactech wanted was the truth. Truth and common sense and intelligent discussion.

Is that too much to ask?

Afterall, for years he provided us with the truth, common sense and intelligence all wrapped up in his incessant pass-along e-mails.

So straighten up all you conservatives, we can't afford to lose the unintentionally hilarious scribblings of gahvactech.

I hate to draw lines in the sand... it makes folks gather on each side RATHER THAN THINK CLEARLY. However:

How much Constitutional common sense has been applied to this Dormer issue? Seems to me the MSM (main stream media) has shaped the thinking of both liberals AND CONSERVATIVES.
I can understand liberals lining up with the MSM... I cannot understand nor accept conservatives doing so... they are IMO not practicing what they say they believe in. As far as I am concerned: SHAME ON YOU conservatives for letting the media manipulate your thinking.

There are ENDLESS questions not answered; There are OBVIOUS and NUMEROUS violations of the rule of law by sworn LE officers; The Constitution has bee TRAMPLED, yet the so called conservatives are not even mentioning this; There is a HUGE cover-up being spun onto the public... Yet before looking for answers, the conservatives (supposedly the smart ones) pass judgement and quit thinking. Show me the difference between a conservative and a liberal view on this issue... so far I do not see one.

IMO more DAMAGE was done to the conservative cause by not demanding the system seek the TRUTH.... rather jumping on the emotion of the moment. Children live out of their emotions... Adults attempt to think clearly... Which one is our nation doing on this issue?

This morning, I hear on the news Dormer is dead... he burned in a fire... a shot was heard as the fire started... then it is said there is no positive ID yet... Does the form of this statement not raise questions in the mind of anyone? Or do we just believe whatever the MSM feeds us... The same MSM who unconditionally supports BHO and all his anti-American stuff. The so called conservatives are showing their back sides... and they look more like their lower back sides...

So what is the Constitutional (and proper) way to handle this issue: An INDEPENDENT group of LE folks should come in and arrest Dormer ALIVE (no abuse)... Then a thorough investigation of the FACTS (without LAPD involved; ideally without ANY govt agency involved) should be conducted. Then a trial by jury needs to happen... BOTH a trail of the crimes Dormer committed AND a trial of the crimes LAPD and their leadership committed. Obviously this will never happen.
Wonder why... TPTB (the corrupt govt folks both in LAPD and LA and CAL state... and possibly BHO's administration) do not want it to happen. And IMO every time we as citizens do not DEMAND investigations and facts... we by our lack of action rubber stamp the corruption.
Some conservatives... Pfffft

Now here is the real shame: A person sitting on the fence... would see conservatives as just another group seeking power by playing public opinion... it is OBVIOUS the conservatives are not seeking the truth.

GA is gonna take a break from ARP... With a few exceptions he does not see folks he wants to converse with at this point... too much MSM and not enough common sense, not enough Constitutional thinking, and not enough seeking the truth.

There are other political forums with a lot more:
Common sense,
Constitutional viewpoints,
Seeking the REAL truth, and
A clear distrust of the MSM... in other words looking for the truth rather than jumping on a wagon just 'cause it feels good'. I do not want to see ANY complaints about PC thinking and behavior again... proof just happened PC was more important than truth in the Dormer case.

Shame... ARP USED to be a place where intelligent discussion 'could' happen... not at this point in GA's opinion. For the sake of the folks at ARP... I hope this changes.

Bye.

Wow....got to be one of the best posts I've read on the ARP. Finally someone admits that both sides of the political spectrum are losing it.