Alright in case anyone isn’t noticing, Rohingyan genocide is bad. What are people doing, activism wise? Does anyone have any ideas about how to influence international policy via either the UN or the US, or via international NGO’s?

The current Rohingya situation in Burma is being discussed a lot these days, and the general narrative seems to be that the Muslim Rohingya are entirely victims, and the Buddhist Burmese are terrible and committing acts of genocide. Speaking against the Rohingya in any way seems to attract accusations of ‘Islamobhobia’. And there have even been calls to strip Aung San Suu Kyi of her Nobel Peace Prize for not speaking up loudly enough in favour of the Rohingya cause. To me, this situation seems to be imbalanced.
I do not condone violence. And I believe it is wrong to judge any people as bad merely on the basis of what religion they follow. However, I am a keen supporter of objectivity and of factual information. I would therefore like to share here two items - a video from BBC news on the issue, in which you will hear two sides of the story from two women whose backgrounds I have detailed below for those interested (it is good to know your sources); and an article on the history and background of this current situation.
I welcome any criticism by anyone who can demonstrate any factual errors in either source. I say that because I do not have a fixed view. I think this issue is worthy of open conversation, and I am against the idea that one should stick to one opinion and close ones ears and eyes to information that might challenge ones views. I believe ‘truth’ and ‘objectivity’ are far more important than ‘my’ views, if I had any.

Here is the video:

Here is also a detailed analysis of the history of this issue:https://bdcburma.wordpress.com/2012/09/ ... ern-burma/
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Background on the two speakers in the video:
The first lady to speak on this issue is Sanam Shantyaei. According to her company France 24’s website, she is “a specialist on Iran coverage and the weekly host of Middle East Matters”. I struggled to find more info about her, there’s no wikipedia page on her, but to quote her profile on the website of the company she works for in full:
“She is a British-Iranian journalist with more than a decade's experience as a foreign correspondent and international news television producer. At France 24, she is notably a specialist on Iran coverage and the weekly host of Middle East Matters.”

The second lady to speak is Priscilla Clapp. She is currently a senior advisor to the U.S. Institute of Peace and the Asia Society. Here’s more about her:�During her 30-year career with the U.S. Government, Ms. Clapp served as chief of mission and permanent charge d’affaires at the U.S. Embassy in Burma (1999-2002), deputy chief of mission in the U.S. Embassy in South Africa (1993-96), principal deputy assistant aecretary of state for Refugee Programs (1989-1993), deputy political counselor in the U.S. Embassy in Moscow (1986-88), and chief of political-military affairs in the U.S. Embassy in Japan (1981-85). She also worked on the State Department's Policy Planning Staff, in the East Asian, Political Military and International Organizations bureaus, and with the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.

Prior to government service, Ms. Clapp spent ten years in foreign policy and arms control research, with the MIT Center for International Studies and as a Research Associate at the Brookings Institution. She is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the International Institute for Strategic Studies.

Ms. Clapp’s books include: with Morton Halperin, "Bureaucratic Politics and Foreign Policy" (Brookings, 2006), with I.M. Destler et al., "Managing an Alliance: the Politics of U.S.-Japanese Relations" (Brookings, 1976), with Morton Halperin, "U.S.-Japanese Relations in the 1970's" (Harvard, 1974). She is a frequent media commentator and the author of numerous publications on Burma and U.S. Burma policy with USIP, the Brookings Institution, the East-West Center, Australia National University, the Asia Society, the National Bureau of Asian Research, Singapore’s ISEAS and others.
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If anyone can clearly disprove any of Ms. Clapp’s statements in the video, or any of the historical information in the article, I welcome you to comment with your reasoning and references. I am not posting these because I have verified all of the information myself and these are not my own opinions. Rather, I am posting them because I have no reason to believe they contain false data (except for Sanam Shantyaei's data as first speaker in the video). And because it seems the general information in the public discourse appears to be biased, incomplete, and inaccurate.

The current Rohingya situation in Burma is being discussed a lot these days, and the general narrative seems to be that the Muslim Rohingya are entirely victims, and the Buddhist Burmese are terrible and committing acts of genocide.

Yes, that's what happens when mainstream narratives are automatically derived from the Oppression Olympics league tables...

I think this issue is worthy of open conversation, and I am against the idea that one should stick to one opinion and close ones ears and eyes to information that might challenge ones views. I believe ‘truth’ and ‘objectivity’ are far more important than ‘my’ views, if I had any.

Your post can easily be taken that we should ignore the suffering of the rohingya.....and others.

Mine? No, I'm just reaffirming Dharmasherab's perspective that one should not unconditionally accept the prevailing narrative, especially when there is awareness of how mainstream media narratives come to be.

If a particular subject is of interest, try to learn the objective facts, and discern your own truth.

Your post can easily be taken that we should ignore the suffering of the rohingya.....and others.

Mine? No, I'm just reaffirming Dharmasherab's perspective that one should not unconditionally accept the prevailing narrative, especially when there is awareness of how mainstream media narratives come to be.

If a particular subject is of interest, try to learn the objective facts, and discern your own truth.

Metta,
Paul.

I'm not talking about what what your intended message is.....I'm talking about what the uninformed reader can very easily take from your post.....I'm talking about the unintended consequence.
chownah

I think you make a good point. The Rohingya insurgency is seldom if ever mentioned in the stories of the atrocities committed against them.

I've always felt that if the West hadn't tended towards takings sides in the early stages of the conflict in Sri Lanka the war there would have ended much sooner. But because the Tamils were regarded as freedom fighters and the Tamil diaspora given refugee status and allowed by many nations to finance their rebellion unhindered, there was the means to carry out years of hostility and bloodshed.

Last edited by pulga on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

What we have to remember in this type of conflicts is only the minority create the problem. The majority innocent caught in the middle. All these conflicts are dependently originated. Both parties should take the responsibility.

Yes, that's what happens when mainstream narratives are automatically derived from the Oppression Olympics league tables...

Lol. I know right? I dont understand why a certain group needs to get more privilage than the rest. It brings into mind what Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse said about this -

" I suspect that many liberals, atheists and much of the Western media would be delighted if news of a Jain suicide bomber now hit the headlines, because it would prove their point that all religions have a dark side and harbour extremists. How can we not be discouraged when Germany’s largest daily newspaper, the Süddeutsche Zeitung with a daily readership of more than one million, publishes a lead article about the Sogyal Rinpoche scandal under the section heading ‘Buddhism,’ and entitled “Abuse.” Imagine the outcry if the Western press were to report every Muslim bombing and massacre under the heading ‘Islam!’" - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

The current Rohingya situation in Burma is being discussed a lot these days, and the general narrative seems to be that the Muslim Rohingya are entirely victims, and the Buddhist Burmese are terrible and committing acts of genocide. Speaking against the Rohingya in any way seems to attract accusations of ‘Islamobhobia’. And there have even been calls to strip Aung San Suu Kyi of her Nobel Peace Prize for not speaking up loudly enough in favour of the Rohingya cause. To me, this situation seems to be imbalanced.

If I am not mistaken you are copy pasting the same post over and over again in different threads. This is at least the third time that I am reading this.

I'm not talking about what what your intended message is.....I'm talking about what the uninformed reader can very easily take from your post.....I'm talking about the unintended consequence.

The uninformed reader who does not think critically.
I agree that in these discussions, there are people who think in black and white terms -- "Either you see the Rohingyas as innocent victims, or you're supporting the perpetrators / are a karmic determinist." As if there would be no other options, no complexity to account for.

It's not clear how to discuss this topic in such a way that does not provoke the ire of those black-and-white thinkers, other than by siding with the official politically correct virtue-signalling party line.

Lol. I know right? I dont understand why a certain group needs to get more privilage than the rest. It brings into mind what Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse said about this -

" I suspect that many liberals, atheists and much of the Western media would be delighted if news of a Jain suicide bomber now hit the headlines, because it would prove their point that all religions have a dark side and harbour extremists. How can we not be discouraged when Germany’s largest daily newspaper, the Süddeutsche Zeitung with a daily readership of more than one million, publishes a lead article about the Sogyal Rinpoche scandal under the section heading ‘Buddhism,’ and entitled “Abuse.” Imagine the outcry if the Western press were to report every Muslim bombing and massacre under the heading ‘Islam!’" - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

Sorry if this is off topic - but Dzongsar Jamyang Khentse is hardly a reliable person to quote about anything, since he appears to have been excusing Sogyal Lakar's abuse of female students over the years, as well as Sogyal's more recent punching of a nun in the stomach, which has resulted in him being expelled from the Tibetan Buddhist Rigpa organisation.
Such unacceptable behaviour needs to be exposed, rather than hidden.

Sorry if this is off topic - but Dzongsar Jamyang Khentse is hardly a reliable person to quote about anything, since he appears to have been excusing Sogyal Lakar's abuse of female students over the years, as well as Sogyal's more recent punching of a nun in the stomach, which has resulted in him being expelled from the Tibetan Buddhist Rigpa organisation.
Such unacceptable behaviour needs to be exposed, rather than hidden.

If anything that makes him a living case-in-point for the point he is communicating... namely that deeds should be called out for what they are, rather than being concealed or downplayed just because honest disclosure of who perpetrated the deed (and their motives) doesn't align with the prevailing PC narrative.

The second lady to speak is Priscilla Clapp. She is currently a senior advisor to the U.S. Institute of Peace and the Asia Society. Here’s more about her:�During her 30-year career with the U.S. Government, Ms. Clapp served as chief of mission and permanent charge d’affaires at the U.S. Embassy in Burma (1999-2002), deputy chief of mission in the U.S. Embassy in South Africa (1993-96), principal deputy assistant aecretary of state for Refugee Programs (1989-1993), deputy political counselor in the U.S. Embassy in Moscow (1986-88), and chief of political-military affairs in the U.S. Embassy in Japan (1981-85). She also worked on the State Department's Policy Planning Staff, in the East Asian, Political Military and International Organizations bureaus, and with the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.

Prior to government service, Ms. Clapp spent ten years in foreign policy and arms control research, with the MIT Center for International Studies and as a Research Associate at the Brookings Institution . She is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the International Institute for Strategic Studies.

Ms. Clapp’s books include: with Morton Halperin, "Bureaucratic Politics and Foreign Policy" (Brookings, 2006), with I.M. Destler et al., "Managing an Alliance: the Politics of U.S.-Japanese Relations" (Brookings, 1976), with Morton Halperin, "U.S.-Japanese Relations in the 1970's" (Harvard, 1974). She is a frequent media commentator and the author of numerous publications on Burma and U.S. Burma policy with USIP, the Brookings Institution, the East-West Center, Australia National University, the Asia Society, the National Bureau of Asian Research, Singapore’s ISEAS and others.
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In 1959, Harvard awarded an associate professorship to Henry Kissinger instead of Brzezinski.[6] He then moved to New York City to teach at Columbia University.[13] Here he wrote Soviet Bloc: Unity and Conflict, which focused on Eastern Europe since the beginning of the Cold War. He also taught future Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, who, like Brzezinski's widow Emily, is of Czech descent, and who he also mentored during her early years in Washington.[15] He also became a member of the Council on Foreign Relations in New York and joined the Bilderberg Group.

When asked if he regretted supporting Islamist groups in their fight against the Soviet Union, Brzezinski replied, “What was more important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Muslims or the liberation of central Europe and the end of the Cold war?”

The prospect of lucrative reconstruction deals has triggered a deluge of interest from governments and firms looking to profit from Syria’s devastation. The regime’s closest allies, Russia and Iran, have been the most prominent beneficiaries of the Syria reconstruction gold rush, with China not far behind.

Yes, that's what happens when mainstream narratives are automatically derived from the Oppression Olympics league tables...

Mainstream narratives...

The term "Palestine refugees" originally referred to both Arabs and Jews whose normal place of residence had been in Mandatory Palestine but were displaced and lost their livelihoods as a result of the 1948 Palestine war.[9] The UNRWA definition of the term includes the patrilineal descendants of the original "Palestine refugees", but is limited to persons residing in UNRWA's areas of operation in the Palestinian territories, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria.[9][10] In 2012, there were an estimated 4,950,000 registered patrilineal descendants of the original "Palestine refugees",[10] based on the UNRWA registration requirements,[2][3][11][12] of which an estimated 1.5 million lived in UNRWA camps.[13] The number of original refugees "who meet UNRWA's Palestine Refugee criteria" was 711,000 in 1950[1] of which approximately 30,000–50,000 were still alive in 2012.[14] The term does not include internally displaced Palestinians.

During the 1948 Palestine War, around 85% (720,000people) of the Palestinian Arab population of what became Israel fled or were expelled from their homes, to the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and to the countries of Lebanon, Syria and Jordan.

Do The Math: Global War On Terror Has Killed 4 Million Muslims Or More
A recent study suggests the “War on Terror” has had two million victims, but reporter Nafeez Ahmed claims this may be only a fraction of the total dead from Western wars.

During the war in Afghanistan (2001–present), over 31,000 civilian deaths due to war-related violence have been documented;[1][2] 29,900 civilians have been wounded.[2] Over 111,000 Afghans, including civilians, soldiers and militants, are estimated to have been killed in the conflict.[1] The Cost of War project estimated that the number who have died through indirect causes related to the war may be as high 360,000 additional people based on a ratio of indirect to direct deaths in contemporary conflicts.[3] These numbers do not include those who have died in Pakistan.

Estimates of the casualties from the conflict in Iraq since 2003 (beginning with the 2003 US invasion of Iraq, and the ensuing occupation and insurgency) have come in many forms, and the accuracy of the information available on different types of Iraq War casualties varies greatly.
Official estimates of Iraq War casualties range from 110,000 to 460,000.[1] Other estimates, such as the 2006 Lancet study, and the 2007 Opinion Research Business survey, put the numbers as high as 650,000 and 1.2 million respectively.

Estimates of deaths in the Libyan Civil War vary with figures from 2,500 to 25,000 given between March 2 and October 2, 2011

Estimates of deaths in the Syrian Civil War, per opposition activist groups, vary between 331,765 and 475,000.[1] On 23 April 2016, the United Nations and Arab League Envoy to Syria put out an estimate of 400,000 that had died in the war