Somehow I ended up watch 8 parts of the MSS, with DPR Jones, thunderf00t, AronRa, Eric Hovid and Sye something or other and a bunch of other people. I remembered Sye from TTA podcast many months ago saying that everyone knows god exists and if you did and don't know...you just didn't do it right the first time and you essentially always an unbeliever, because god has revealed himself through what he termed a "revelation" and never thoroughly explained where it came from. On the MSS, he refused to discuss the bible, what he claimed was god's word, with unbelievers. Yet at the end tried to preach, which was thankfully blocked out.

So, here I am on the fence again for a moment and driven right back over by the overall tenor of the arguments leveled by those two Christians. Never in my life had I heard a more specious argument for an alleged "proof" for the existence of god. At the end Ken Hovid, seemed to pussyfoot passed the bible as his reason for his proof and focused more heavily on logic and the "perfection" of nature, which is hardly really perfect.

So like a rubber band stretched pretty thin, I bounced back to atheism. It was really a lousy debate with far too much shouting and sometimes screaming and peppered with just as silly rationale on both sides. It did solidify why I am atheist....because their arguments for god, didn't make any sense and I found them both to be incredibly arrogant in their claims. Any chance they got, they twisted words and made snarky remarks like Sye repeatedly saying, "I'm done with you." as though he won a point or the whole argument.

The one thing I've never really done was thoroughly come out to my family, because I never see them, except for weddings and funerals if they think to include me and live in a different state.

Tonight I did just that. I highly doubt I'll hear from any of them ever again.

If the indoctrination started young and penetrated deep into your psyche, it's to be expected that there could be moments of questioning. In fact, the bible predicts many will fall away from The Truth and be deceived by the devil's lies.

What a great piece of propaganda to keep the flock under control.

Don't be too hopeful about not hearing from your family again. You're likely to be on the receiving end of a lot preaching from here on out. Enjoy the ride, it's worth every moment!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness
~Izel

I love and hate that MSS episode. Love it for the raw entertainment and the many laughs I get at the arrogance and stupidity of Eric and Sye. Hate it for the frustration I feel caused by the same arrogance and stupidity.

I'm glad your atheism is well-cemented. Even gladder that this reaffirmation came as a result of leading Christian apologists doing what they do best - circular reasoning, fallacious arguing, dodgy evasions, unsupportable proofs - if those chumps are the best soldiers that God can put in the field, then Christianity is finally on a death spiral. It will take time. Life-long indoctrination is hard to shake, as you well know.

But its death will come. Education and reason has won out over ignorance and superstition. Nothing left but for the dust to settle, though that will take some settling, over a long time yet.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein

(06-12-2012 01:16 AM)Erxomai Wrote: If the indoctrination started young and penetrated deep into your psyche, it's to be expected that there could be moments of questioning. In fact, the bible predicts many will fall away from The Truth and be deceived by the devil's lies.

What a great piece of propaganda to keep the flock under control.

Don't be too hopeful about not hearing from your family again. You're likely to be on the receiving end of a lot preaching from here on out. Enjoy the ride, it's worth every moment!

It began at birth. So, ya it's been with me for a long time. A good friend recently suggested just in passing that she believed most atheists were angry with god. I've pondered a long time if that was the case. Was I just angry and have decided, no that's not it. And yes my grandmother would tell me that god would judge me harsher because I knew better.

I feel like this immense weight has been lifted off me. Like a moment of perfection...everything just made sense.

(06-12-2012 01:24 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote: I love and hate that MSS episode. Love it for the raw entertainment and the many laughs I get at the arrogance and stupidity of Eric and Sye. Hate it for the frustration I feel caused by the same arrogance and stupidity.

I'm glad your atheism is well-cemented. Even gladder that this reaffirmation came as a result of leading Christian apologists doing what they do best - circular reasoning, fallacious arguing, dodgy evasions, unsupportable proofs - if those chumps are the best soldiers that God can put in the field, then Christianity is finally on a death spiral. It will take time. Life-long indoctrination is hard to shake, as you well know.

But its death will come. Education and reason has won out over ignorance and superstition. Nothing left but for the dust to settle, though that will take some settling, over a long time yet.

I actually thought that before I started watching it, I would be kicked the other way. The website Sye has, did kinda get me thinking, but when he talked about his "proof" he really did lose me. Yes, totally agree the whole thing was a love/hate thing. It was hard to listen to. And yet it was entertaining at points too. When everyone was yelling....and poor DPR was trying to take control.

Great news, the title had me scared for a second.
Well, if you ever have another Crisis of Non-Faith, I want you to visit some places I know, and they'll sort you right back on the straight and narrow in seconds.

But seriously, if bad arguments set you back on the right path, these are some great places to look.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.

Even I have my occasional "What if?" moments. As a christian, I always swore that Satan could get me to do many things, but the one thing he'd never get me to do is stop believing in God. It was just an impossible thing. Now, as an atheist, every now and then I wonder to myself "What if Satan is real, heard me issue what amounts to a challenge about not losing my faith, and decided he'd work his magic...and won?"

Or, I'll think "What if the christians are right and I peacefully end my life one day; only to suddenly awaken in a firey cavern with demons creeping about in the shadows, when Satan walks up to me and says 'Hehe...guess what?'"

Still other times I'll find myself wondering "What if I'm actually a lizard who's sleeping on a leaf in the Amazon dreaming that he's a man?"

Afterward - as is the case with all the examples I've mentioned - I chuckle to myself and go about my day.