That would be a super sweet deal for the Lions...An additional first and second rounder for dropping 3 spots...I like the picks (Barron, Shazor, Alex Smith, and Justin Tuck)...only if that would really happen on draft day. San Diego could, but Houston might not trade.

Moss trade not incorporated. I wonder what the Vikes will do with their picks... Baas before Elton Brown?

Also, I highly doubt that NYG will give up any more picks since they've lost a bunch of guys to FA and Eli Manning as a QB.

Matt Roth won't fall to 42, he's a stud.

March 3rd, 2005, 9:03 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9596Location: Dallas

Re: Comments on Don Barayuga's Mock Draft

conversion02 wrote:

Moss trade not incorporated. I wonder what the Vikes will do with their picks... Baas before Elton Brown?

In fairness to Don, he turned in his Mock at the end of last week before the trade went down. Formating the mocks takes me a few days - especially multi-round mocks like Don's.

March 3rd, 2005, 10:19 am

conversion02

RIP Killer

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pmPosts: 10467Location: Sycamore, IL

I assumed he had made the mock before the trade went through, since it only officially went through yesterday. I was just pointing it out because I was curious of what the Vikes will do with 2 first rounders. I think they'll take D Johnson at #7 assuming Rolle is off the board. Then again, no mock can be completely accurate (for a mock) during FA. I understand and wasn't scrutinizing.

March 3rd, 2005, 10:27 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10066Location: Where ever I'm at now

I liked the mock. The only thing I can say is that in my humble opinion the trades are unrealistic. No way Arizona moves up from 8 to 1 by just throwing in a second rounder. Also, San Diego giving up two first rounder to move from 12 to 10? No matter how much they covet the player (in this case Shawne Merriman) I don't see them making that trade. It was considered to be overpaying last year for Cleveland to give up a second rounder to move from 7 to 6. Moving from 12 to 10 should cost no more than a third rounder (which San Diego traded to Tampa Bay in the McCardell deal). Their #12 and next years 3rd rounder would be enough as well. Then Houston gives up a second rounder to move up from 13 to 12? Again, very unrealistic, no matter who the player is. For the Giants, this years 43rd and next years first rounder should be enough to move into the #14 spot that Carolina possesses.

I don't mean to sound like I'm busting your chops. Just some food for thought. I felt that the picks, which are far more important, were very admirable for all the teams. Good job.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

March 3rd, 2005, 2:18 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10066Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Comments on Don Barayuga's Mock Draft

Quote:

I wonder what the Vikes will do with their picks... Baas before Elton Brown?

Also, I highly doubt that NYG will give up any more picks since they've lost a bunch of guys to FA and Eli Manning as a QB.

Matt Roth won't fall to 42, he's a stud.

David Baas is more versatile than Brown. In addition, Elton has been hampered by an injury and the fact he hasn't recovered from it has some teams concerned about his durability. Also, Brown can have weight problems.

I agree with your comments regarding the G-men and Matt Roth. I see the Giants standing pat, and Matt Roth goes anywhere from #20 to the end of round one. He gets after the QB like few players in this draft.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

I won't make excuses, but I will give reasons for why it is what it is.

This is my first ever mock draft, so I wanted to use it as a learning experience. As mentioned on the mock draft thread, I didn't want to make stupid picks, like having us draft Jamaal Brimmer in the first round. (I've actually seen this happen). So it was kind of a method to learn about the teams needs. Whoever made that mock with us taking Brimmer in the first round obviously looked at our needs and saw that we needed a safety and just plugged a random safety in there. Bye bye, his credibility is completely lost with me and I won't take his mock seriously.

Probably the biggest principal I tried to follow, was using a valuing system. I tried to plug players into teams at a spot where they got optimum value. I think in my opinion at the moment I only have one team reaching in the second round, and that's the falcons taking Otogwe. This is probably why you see unrealistic trades, however it is probably why some of you thought the picks were admirable for each team.

The premise for the unrealistic trades is based on the Lions-Browns trade. Moving one spot and gaining a high second rounder is in my opinion 'unrealistic' but that didn't stop that from happening. I've also seen the lopsided trades a lot, like the Chargers raping the giants, or Baltimore giving up future pick to get Boller. I see 'unrealistic' trades quite frequently. Granted, it may seem like the one's trading down are getting screwed, but if you'd like, go ahead and offer the rest of the draft class if it'll make you feel better. Honestly, I didn't put too much thought into the trades, and put more emphasis on letting teams target the players they wanted at good value.

On another note, Shawne Merriman and Derrick Johnson are two players I would trade up for, and so I didn't feel like they were giving up a lot to move up. Maybe two first rounders is a lot for SD, but hey again I didn't care. But I didn't want to make them look stupid, and figured, I would be extremely happy to have either Derrick Johnson or Shawne Merriman.

Finally, I was going to extremes since it was my first version mock. I figured, I might as well have fun with the Lions. And in my opinion scoring:

Alex Baron OT
Earnest Shazor SS
Alex Smith TE
Justin Tuck DE

was a lot of fun.

Baas was a guess, and for now it's correct since his stock is rising, and Brown's is dropping. If you like, you can replace the Alex Smith pick with Elton Brown, give the TE to the bears. If you think G is a bigger need than TE.

Anyway, I hope to work on another version as I had fun with this one. Hopefully when the Free Agency and Pro Day picture is a little clearer. I noticed that I'm heavy into value and I would like to incorporate more supply and demand principle per Kirwan. I also noticed the deep center class after I made the mock, so I have to re-evaluate it from that perspective as well.

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10066Location: Where ever I'm at now

One thing to remember about the Browns-Lions trade is that it was moving from 7 to 6 which is a bigger difference in value than moving from 12 to 10. Also, the Browns were going after a player who most feel has the potential to be the elite player at his position, supplanting Tony Gonzalez. KW2 was considered to be one of the top players at the tight end spot upon his being drafted. That kind of rare talent and ability would skew the trade values somewhat. In addition, Matt Millen was using Jacksonville as leverage in a BIG way.

Honolulu Blue, the picks were spot on. If this was your first mock you did a fantastic job. Trades can be tough to figure at times I know. You concentrated on the picks, and IMO that's the important part of a mock. The trades you showed had teams sensibly moving up and down trying to get players to fill positions or trying to get value out of their picks. Once again, good job doing that.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

March 4th, 2005, 7:48 am

jomo269

NFL Team Captain

Joined: January 27th, 2005, 9:12 pmPosts: 1610Location: Midland, MI

Don, loved your draft pretty good for a first time (if you don't count the 100's you put on paper as wish lists....we all do). If only that could happen. Detroit could cough up the money for Kennedy and next year play with their picks and draft a stud guard and fill any other hole that they still have. Again, good job can't wait for your next one. Let's hope the M&M boys read this page. jomo269

March 5th, 2005, 1:15 am

jomo269

NFL Team Captain

Joined: January 27th, 2005, 9:12 pmPosts: 1610Location: Midland, MI

Could you imagine Kennedy and Shazor at safties. Runinning a pass route over the middle would be suicide.