And this is ABBA. [Plays Ring Ring]Yes Ring Ring from the Album Waterloo and that in fact written for the 1973 Swedish heats of the Eurovision Song Competition and Benny and Björn you also wrote a song for the 1972 entry for the Eurovision from Sweden didn’t you?

Björn

Yes, we did and for the 1971 I think for the 1970. [laughs]

Benny

Yeah, that’s right.

Björn

You have to realise that at that time it was virtually the only thing that could help you get outside the boarders of Sweden. Nobody would listen to a tape from Sweden at that time. If the thing with Waterloo at Brighton wouldn’t have happened I think we could still be writing songs for the contest.

Benny

Well, yes.

Ray Moore

It was a very peculiar system here in Sweden, wasn’t it – the way the Swedish entry was chosen? You had a panel of experts I believe.

Benny or Björn

Ahhh, so called experts you mean.

Ray Moore

Was that why you only came third that time?

Benny

I don’t know, that’s difficult to say, they change the rules every year, it’s really never the same, The year we won with Waterloo though it was a jury of ordinary people, all around the country.

Ray Moore

So the people on the streets were on your side, but not necessarily the panel of experts.

Björn

I think so, and the song that we just heard, Ring Ring, that was the biggest seller that year.

Ray Moore

Yes, an enormous hit and the English lyrics by Neil Sedaka. How did you persuade Neil to write the English lyrics?

Björn

Well, Stig – he was an old friend of Stig’s.

Ray Moore

That’s the Manager Stig Anderson.

Björn

And we thought it would be a nice gimmick, you know, to have somebody well known writing the lyric, so Stig sent a tape and a letter to Neil and he wrote it together with Phil Cody.

Ray Moore

Agnetha, when at the time Ring Ring was recorded you were a little worried yourself, weren’t you?

Agnetha

Yes, I was because I was heavily pregnant and I think it was 2 days before the time and everybody was worried about that.

Björn

Yeah, the stress and everything, we thought it could happen any second.

Ray Moore

And when did it in fact happen, Agnetha?

Agnetha

One week after.

Ray Moore

[Plays The Name Of The Game]Yes, from ABBA The Album – The Name Of The Game. Now, the game was pretty tough for all of you in the United Kingdom in the early days, Agnetha and Anni-Frid, can I ask you about that – why do you think the press were so hard on ABBA?

Frida

I don’t know, but that’s how they have always been since we started – not only the English but the Swedish as well, I don’t know why, but that’s a fact actually.

Ray Moore

What about you, Agnetha, what about reading the press? Do you find that very depressing?

Agnetha

No, because we were all very used to it from Sweden. It’s the same everywhere but you get used toit.

Ray Moore

Why was it so important to you as a group to break through, Anni-Frid, in Britain, I mean it’s a comparatively small compared to say America, why was Britain so important to you?

Frida

It was very big for us by that time – it was a big market for us you know coming from Sweden with this little market so it was really a challenge.

Björn

And also the home of The Beatles and all those groups – the 60s – we felt there was something special about making it in Britain.

Ray Moore

One interesting thing that came out of researching these programmes is that on your Greatest Hits LP there is a song there that I’m very fond of called He Is Your Brother, but that was never released as an A side in Britain, or I think I’m right in saying in the States either, why was that, Benny?

Benny

Because that was one of the records we made before 1973, before we entered Eurovision for the first time – the Swedish part – it was our second single and what was happening, it was just never released as a single anywhere else.

Björn

There’s a very simple answer to that – nobody wanted it.

Ray Moore

We’re going to get it right now. [Plays He Is Your Brother]There’s another track from ABBA’s Greatest Hits, He Is Your Brother – Now, Benny and Björn, if I can come back to you for a moment, the sound of ABBA has matured and changed since those early recordings bit it’s still, how can I say, still a very distinctive sound. It’s a naive question how do the two of you go about writing, what is lesson one about writing a hit ABBA song?

Björn

We don’t have a formula for one thing, but we work really hard and we have patience I think.

Ray Moore

If I can ask you, Benny, what comes first the music or the lyrics.

Benny

The music, we always write the music first, we feel both that the music is the most important thing.

Ray Moore

Yeah, I think the music you write is always very strong. I notice that all the tracks, on all the albums and singles contain musical surprises, do you think that?

[All]

Mmmmm.

Ray Moore

A criticism that has been made back in Britain is that the songs are certainly stronger musically than they are lyrically, would you agree with that, is that fair criticism?

Benny

Yes.

Björn

Especially in the early days – the songs are often simple pop songs and simple pop songs require simple pop lyrics I think, we also try to fit the lyric in with the music rather than the other way round.

Ray Moore

I also think listening to your music that you almost use the four voices as extra instruments.[Plays The King Has Lost His Crown]

Yes, from the album Voulez-Vous, The King Has Lost His Crown. Now Björn once again, one or your biggest areas of success came in a very far away land from Sweden – In Australia. How did that come about?

Björn

Primarily it happened with all the films that we made for all of the singles. They were suddenly starting to play them, on television and we had something like 3 or 4 songs in the chart at the same time so we went down there and did this TV special and after that it just happened and happened.

Ray Moore

Yes because Mamma Mia was an enormous great success down there, did that success down in Australia persuade you to release Mamma Mia elsewhere – right around the world, it was a success everywhere wasn’t it?

Björn

Well, I think the idea originally came from Australia, the idea to release it as a single although we knew it had potential.

Ray Moore

A nice side-line I heard somewhere about your success in Australia, something about a clerk in an office called David Abba [all laugh] what was that all about?

Agnetha

Strange name.

Benny

He had some problems with people calling him every day singing songs.

Ray Moore

I bet he is your number one fan. [more laughs]

Björn

I’ve got a photo of a kid standing by the side of a river and the sign says “ABBA River” also in Australia.

Ray Moore

Really? [Plays Mamma Mia]Yet another world wide single for ABBA Mamma Mia from the LP simply called ABBA. Agnetha, if I could talk to you for a moment, you’ve been in the business quite a few years. You made your stage debut at the grand old age of five I believe?

Agnetha

Yeah that’s very early isn’t it?

Ray Moore

What did you do?

Agnetha

I sang a song called Billy Boy, it was at a Christmas party.

Ray Moore

And you wrote your first song when you were 8 years old?

Agnetha

Yeah, I began to play the piano when I was 5 and then started to take lessons when I was 8.

Ray Moore

Because your parents encouraged you quite a bit didn’t they?

Agnetha

My father was in the business.

Ray Moore

So by the time you were a teenager Agnetha you were already a seasoned professional performer with a recording contract?

Agnetha

Not really because, um, I didn’t start to, I started in a dance band when I was 15 and then I did my first record when I was 17.

Ray Moore

And since then, apart from ABBA you have made some solo albums with a lot of your own material?

Agnetha

Yes, in Sweden.

Ray Moore

And your other great personal success, apart from your solo albums and indeed your success with ABBA was your portrayal of Mary Magdalene in Jesus Christ Superstar – the Swedish production.

Agnetha

Yes, mmm.

Ray Moore

It was a totally new departure for you then was it?

Agnetha

Yes, it was very interesting as well because I could act a little and I really liked that.

Ray Moore

And it was a tremendous success here in Sweden wasn’t it?

Agnetha

Yes, it was.

Ray Moore

And a tremendous personal success for you.

Agnetha

I hope so.

Ray Moore

So I think we ought to hear one of the big hits from the show starring Agnetha.[Plays I Don’t Know How To Love Him (sorry I can’t be bothered to look up the Swedish title)]Agnetha singing I Don’t Know How To Love Him from the Swedish production of Jesus Christ Superstar. Now back to Benny and Björn once again, you mentioned earlier Benny that you have been writing together since 1966. How did the two of you first come together?

Benny

Well, just by accident at a party, Björn was going into the army to serve his – I don’t know what you would call it in English [says Swedish word]

Ray Moore

[something about National Service, inaudible]

Benny

No, we knew of each other because the Hootenanny Singers were very famous as were the Hep Stars.

Ray Moore

These were your individual groups.

Benny

Yeah, we met on the road and they had a party, we sat down in a park, playing some guitars or something and good vibes and all that, and we said that when he gets out of there from the army we would try to do something.

Ray Moore

And then you eventually formed a double act together, didn’t you?

Benny

Yeah we made our own album.

Ray Moore

So where do Agnetha and Anni-Frid come in then?

Björn

I met Agnetha on a television programme in a little town on the West Coast of Sweden, fell in love and you know these things happen.

Ray Moore

And where did you fall into ABBA then?

Agnetha

Frida, Björn Benny and I met at the same time, at a party.

Benny

Lots of parties.

Ray Moore

Must have been a marvellous party.

Frida

We spent all night talking to each other and then I met Benny a couple of months later and we started to see each other. That’s how it started.

Ray Moore

Yes so we’ve got the four of you together but the group didn’t have a proper name as such at this time did it?

Björn

No – It wasn’t a group, I mean we went together, we did things together but purely on a social basis, until a couple of years later when the girls helped us with the backing vocals.

Off the Greatest Hits album – ABBA and People need love. Benny and Björn once again – In England your lyrics, as I said earlier, have been sometimes said to be simple and naive, is that the way you like to think of them, you mentioned about them being pop lyrics, do you not have some sort of ambition to put more profundity, more depth into your lyrics sometimes?

Björn

Well yes, very much so, and if you listen to the more recent lyrics they are somewhat different to the ones before, but it seems that everyone’s decided that they are simple and naive and nobody bothers to listen.

Ray Moore

Almost irrespective.

Björn

Yes.

Benny

But it comes from mainly from the titles I think like Mamma Mia, it’s bubble gummy in a way.

Ray Moore

This is interesting about you because often the title comes first doesn’t it – I remember reading about Waterloo in particular that I think it was Stig Anderson.

Benny

He was involved in writing the lyrics then, a few years back.

Björn

Yes – but the song was there of course, like Benny said before we always do the music first and nowadays we even do the recording of the song before the lyrics because otherwise we have to change it.

Ray Moore

And what about a song like Hasta Manana, what’s the inspiration behind that, Benny?

Benny

That was one of the songs we had to choose from in ’74 for Eurovision, because we were in the middle of the album, the Waterloo album, and we had to pick one song to perform for the Eurovision and I would say that it is more of what people would think was a Eurovision song, more than Waterloo, but Waterloo is much more of a rock and rolly type of number than any of the other participants had at the time or ever had.

Björn

Yeah it was a small revolution.

Ray Moore

A big revolution.

Björn

And strangely enough nobody took it up later.

Ray Moore

[Plays Hasta Manana]Now Benny, if I can ask you, unlike most of the Eurovision groups that rise to prominence and then disappear without trace, ABBA since 1974 have gone from strength to strength to strength, each single, each LP is a kind of musical progression, I feel as a listener, is that something you’re continuously working towards?

Benny

Yes, definitely – well I have to correct you on one thing, I don’t feel that we are a Eurovision group, the only thing is that we participated because as Björn said earlier it was the only chance for us to be listened to at all outside the boarders of Sweden, but what you say is right also that what we aim for is progress and I think, as you say, little by little, from record to record which has to do with inspiration from what other people are doing contemporarily in music.

Ray Moore

Björn, if I can come to you, in 1977 came The Album and at the same time The Movie, you were on tour at the same time, now that must have been incredibly hard work, trying to concentrate on the tour and having to concentrate on making a film as well, was it very difficult?

Björn

Not really, I mean we were just acting, we were just being ourselves ad being filmed in all these situations but we didn’t have to act really, not until we came back from the tour in Sweden, we did a couple of days but that was all.

Ray Moore

What about you, Anni-Frid, when you actually saw the film, was it something you enjoyed watching, watching yourself perform?

Frida

It was exciting the opening evening, but as Björn said, we were more or less acting as the people we are, we were quite used to it by then because we had done a lot of promotion films, things like that,

Ray Moore

My favourite scene in the whole film contained that lovely sequence to the song Eagle and I think it’s a very good excuse to play that song now. [Plays Eagle]Yes, memories of the track Eagle – Now the four of you must be under constant pressure, concerts, television shows, recording gigs – what on earth do the four of you do to relax Anni-Frid what do you do?

Frida

Ohhhh – I like to stay home you know, cooking and cleaning up, natural things like that, taking care of my children, going on holiday, read a lot, listen to music that kind of thing,

Ray Moore

Agnetha, what do you do?

Agnetha

I spend most of my time with my children and also writing songs, I like to read and sometimes to go to the movies,

Ray Moore

And Björn are you a great one for the nightclubs and parties?

Björn

No, I like to spend time with the children, in the summer I’m a boat freak too, I go sailing. I also spend a lot of time at the summer house, I like to exercise jogging in the summer and cross country skiing in the winter.

Ray Moore

You’re quite normal human beings really, aren’t you?

Björn

Right,

Ray Moore

I would imagine when the four of you get together and the pressures are off that you wouldn’t get a chance to get a lot of work done, it’s just a lot of laughs and “remember when”...[next few words are inaudible]

Benny

That’s not true, we don’t spend that much time together socially anymore – I mean it’s only natural...[inaudible]

Agnetha

Yes, and Frida and I try to avoid each other. [giggling]

Björn

That’s gonna add to the rumours. [everyone laughs]

Ray Moore

Before we get into rumours we will have another track of ABBA sort of relaxing Sitting In The Palmtree [Plays Sitting In The Palmtree]

ABBA with a kind of untypical ABBA song I think, Sitting In The Palmtree. Now, 1979 was the “Year Of The Child”, as a group you felt particularly strongly about this, Benny?

Benny

Yes, very much so, we were approached by the Bee Gees, David Frost and Robert Stigwood and they asked us half a year before the event to do the TV show and we thought it was a good opportunity which it really was. It should take place every year, if someone is strong enough to organise it, I know they had a lot of problems putting the event together and I always feel very strongly about giving our share.

Ray Moore

The four of you all have children, don’t you?

All

Yes.

Benny

It’s not only that, it’s so obvious that there are a lot of people around in our position who can do a little to help.

Björn

It was an incredible show that night, if you think of all of the stars that were there and contributed, it was great, it was very nice meeting them too,

Ray Moore

In fact you as a group did more than most because you contributed all the royalties to your hit record

Benny

So did they all.

Ray Moore

Well, let’s put a few more coppers into that UNICEF hat, shall we? [Plays Chiquitita]One of ABBA’s very biggest hits from the LP Voulez-Vous. Now, all four of you still live in Sweden, now I believe that the taxes in Sweden are almost as high as they are in Great Britain.

Björn

They’re higher.

Ray Moore

What is it that keeps you here, why haven’t you got the palatial in the Bahamas, like other people, doesn’t that appeal to you living away from Sweden?

Agnetha

No, I think I would long for home too much, if I moved away from Sweden.

Frida

And its also that our children are quite young you know, and they go to school in Sweden, they have their friends and son on, so it’s hard to just break up and go somewhere else.

Agnetha

It’s very hard to break up when you have the roots here with parents and so on.

Ray Moore

It’s a slightly personal question but the four of you are not exactly poop after several years of considerable success, there’s a vast wealth at your disposal, how do you manage to use that wealth sensibly, what do you do with your money, Benny?

Benny

We don’t do very much, we live like normal people, don’t spend too much money, do we? We have a home and a boat... [inaudible] We’ve invested money in a lot of things but... [inaudible] care of our money, we try to invest it and make it grow within the company that we own together with Stig Anderson.

Ray Moore

Coming to you, Björn. The group is very big in Eastern Europe I believe, how do you go on financially there because I don’t think you can take too much money out of Eastern Europe, can you?

Björn

Not much – but still it’s nice anyway to have people in Eastern Europe listening to your records.I remember a couple of months ago seeing a TV programme in Sweden from Russia – from Siberia – this little restaurant, there was a group of young people playing guitars and singing one of oursongs. That’s a kind of reward.

Benny

We received a letter 2 days ago from a friend of ours working in Kenya and she was working out in the bush somewhere and she saw two guys with a cassette player, they were from one of the tribes – the Masai tribe- and they were playing Dancing Queen or whatever it was – right out there I mean not in the city but.

Ray Moore

One of the nice ironies I came across is the very first Russian pop music chart they had Money Money Money at the top of the charts, and that tickled me.

Björn

But they’ve understood the irony of the lyrics.

Ray Moore

Agnetha, Anni-Frid, Björn and Benny thank you, for the past 60 minutes this has been ABBA.[Plays out with Money Money Money]