GreasyBryan wrote:Medicaid benefits are soon going to become just like frequent flyer miles. Back in the day, frequent flyer miles used to be earned by flying frequently. You accumulated them pretty much only by flying, and just got the number of miles that equated to the distance between the cities where you flew (not 150%, or double in some cases based on status). There were relatively few customers who had thousands of miles, and they could usually redeem them whenever they needed to. These days, you never even have to set foot on an airplane to get tens of thousands of frequent flyer miles. Just sign up for a new credit card, or get a new home loan, or send flowers to someone, or do any number of activities totally unrelated to flying, and you can accumulate enough miles for two free roundtrip tickets. There's only one problem, there are no flights actually available to cash in your miles because the seats are tightly rationed and there are far more people who have "earned" miles and are now trying to use them, that it's virtually impossible to do so. Unless maybe you want to go to Okalahoma City or Des Moines, then maybe you've got a shot. Honolulu? The Caribbean? Anywhere else good? Forget about it.

The same thing will happen with Medicaid. Obama has showered so many people with "free" Medicaid eligibility that when all those grubbers start to make doctor's appointments, they'll find out that the two Medicaid slots per day are booked for the next eight months or whatever. But if you're willing to pay cash out of pocket, we can get you in this afternoon. We're wide open in that case.

The UK solved part of their problem with foreign nationals using their health care system. They made it ILLEGAL for an OB to treat a pregnant woman who doesn't have a government number or a legal visa. The doctor can lose the license to practice for this. Can you imagine what would happen in the US if we did this?

I recommend that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast should be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast. --- Viktor Frankl

Everyone who has a major illness or broken bones goes to the hospital whether they have insurance or not. Therefore the hospitals have to cover the cost of uncompensated healthcare by raising rates, which causes more people to lose insurance which feeds the problem like a downward spiral. Signing up for Medicaid or whatever doesn't add to our costs because we are already paying the bill in our increased premiums. What it does do is put that risk into a track able category so we can see it with our own eyes. Hospitals will have a reduced uncompensated health care cost with more folks being insured so please quit acting like this is the end of the world it has been going on unchecked for decades.

c_laterans wrote:Why do ACA haters ignore the fact that we are already paying the medical costs of the uninsured in the most expensive, least effective manner possible, the vastly overused emergency room? I don't think a rational person would deny that routine and preventive care in a doctor's office or clinic is vastly cheaper and has better outcomes. Also, has anyone presented a doable, well thought out alternative? All I've seen is a vague miasma of right wing catch phrases espousing personal responsibility, competitive markets, high deductible low lifetime limit policies and health care savings accounts. How is this going to help families already struggling to stay afloat? The only way this works is to turn the uninsured away and let them die in the streets. Talk about death panels.

Most of what you say is true. However ACA is not well thought out or doable. It is falling apart as we watch. The rational question is whether ACA works better than what we used to have. So far the results are not promising.

The political question is why the Liberals insists on calling everyone who disagrees with them a "hater". It appears that you immediately reduce the discussion to personalities rather than issues. This is a logical fallacy. Of course, from my experience, people who have studied formal logic tend to vote Republican. Just as a test, have you studied formal logic?

I recommend that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast should be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast. --- Viktor Frankl

Chimborazo wrote:Some day this all will morph into a single payer plan. As long as it is done right I am all for this. That should have been the goal to begin with.

The goal is to end the Nightmare called Healthcare in America. Read the article about the laid off energy workers in Grand Junction committing suicide after discovering they have to give their next three generations of wealth to the government before relieving Healthcare benefits. Suicide leaves their estates intact, and alleviates the cruel and unusual punishment of getting medicaid.http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ ... icide-rate

Chimborazo wrote:Some day this all will morph into a single payer plan. As long as it is done right I am all for this. That should have been the goal to begin with.

The goal is to end the Nightmare called Healthcare in America. Read the article about the laid off energy workers in Grand Junction committing suicide after discovering they have to give their next three generations of wealth to the government before relieving Healthcare benefits. Suicide leaves their estates intact, and alleviates the cruel and unusual punishment of getting medicaid.http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ ... icide-rate

Pretty dumb joke. At least I hope you are trying to be funny. Otherwise I think you might be a bit insane.

Well Mark Udall tell Obama that more Coloradoans signed up for Medicare than OBAMAcare. Or is the Obama administration counting Medicare sign up as part of the 7.1 million the administration is touting.

plumberrick wrote:Everyone who has a major illness or broken bones goes to the hospital whether they have insurance or not. Therefore the hospitals have to cover the cost of uncompensated healthcare by raising rates, which causes more people to lose insurance which feeds the problem like a downward spiral. Signing up for Medicaid or whatever doesn't add to our costs because we are already paying the bill in our increased premiums. What it does do is put that risk into a track able category so we can see it with our own eyes. Hospitals will have a reduced uncompensated health care cost with more folks being insured so please quit acting like this is the end of the world it has been going on unchecked for decades.

Thanks Rick, nice to see a well thought out post amongst all the "chicken little...the sky is gonna fall" posts.

I personally know some individuals that were helped but the Medicaid expansion in Colorado....before their bills would go unpaid because they could not afford health insurance. In a recent hospitalization they were able to get excellent care and are supper happy with all their doctors as well. It's nice to know "real" people who are being helped by the ACA and expansion of Medicaid (BTW...these individuals missed qualifying for Medicaid by less than $30/year) $15,000 isn't a lot to get by on in a year. I'm sorry but not everyone is irresponsible either...unless you want to believe all the welfare queen made up stories. I personally don't mind helping others and being in healthcare myself I think the "for profit" health care in the US needs to change....the entire world does it better than the US, obstructionist politics holds this country back.

Chimborazo wrote:Some day this all will morph into a single payer plan. As long as it is done right I am all for this. That should have been the goal to begin with.

if this many people are going into medicaid then they should have just pushed for single payer...they had the votes..so why not ask Udall, Degette and Polis why they didn't go for it

Because they didn't have the votes. It might be hard to believe but there were actually democrats who opposed single payer, in the same way they opposed the government option. More importantly the far left wackos didn't have the 60 votes in the Senate to get pass a filibuster. That is why they had to use reconciliation to pass this new tax, even thought Obamacare was sold as it wasn't a new tax. If you read over the government's case to the Supreme Court, they argued Obamacare was indeed a tax and Roberts ruled on those grounds.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Oct 11 1798John Adams (Nation's 2nd President)

seloverb wrote:So.....the alternative is NO healthcare? Which we all pay for when they show up in the ER?

The private sector was NEVER particularly good at handing things like healthcare, which we ALL NEED. This should be seen as a failure of free market, for profit capitalism! There are limitations to the magic of the free market. It only functions well when well regulated. Competition must be maintained, monopoly markets must be avoided, and excessive profits from exploitation of workers, or the environment need to be controlled.

If the free market had been able to handle healthcare, we would not have needed Obamacare!

So Bob, why not just expand Medicaid instead of ruining all of our healthcare? I want an apology from every left wing talking heads who said this would not raise prices and that all stories to the contrary were lies.

How can costs not go up when the majority of those using the new service are not paying for it!

To even try and justify and explain this horrible law shows that you are unwilling to admit that Obama and team screwed this up from the start!

Chimborazo wrote:Some day this all will morph into a single payer plan. As long as it is done right I am all for this. That should have been the goal to begin with.

The goal is to end the Nightmare called Healthcare in America. Read the article about the laid off energy workers in Grand Junction committing suicide after discovering they have to give their next three generations of wealth to the government before relieving Healthcare benefits. Suicide leaves their estates intact, and alleviates the cruel and unusual punishment of getting medicaid.http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ ... icide-rate

The putative goal has little or nothing to do with what is actually done. We can have all the dueling horror stories you want, some true and some false. But the fact is that the ACA isn't working and will not work. Just because you, like the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz, are chanting "I do believe, I do believe, I do believe......" doesn't make this unworkable plan workable.

Stalin's goal of making the Soviet Union a better place included killing millions of peasants for the good of the state. The ACA is going to kill thousands of Americans in order to force us into a single payer. And Medicare will still take everything we own.

I recommend that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast should be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast. --- Viktor Frankl

Chimborazo wrote:Some day this all will morph into a single payer plan. As long as it is done right I am all for this. That should have been the goal to begin with.

The goal is to end the Nightmare called Healthcare in America. Read the article about the laid off energy workers in Grand Junction committing suicide after discovering they have to give their next three generations of wealth to the government before relieving Healthcare benefits. Suicide leaves their estates intact, and alleviates the cruel and unusual punishment of getting medicaid.http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ ... icide-rate

The putative goal has little or nothing to do with what is actually done. We can have all the dueling horror stories you want, some true and some false. But the fact is that the ACA isn't working and will not work. Just because you, like the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz, are chanting "I do believe, I do believe, I do believe......" doesn't make this unworkable plan workable.

Stalin's goal of making the Soviet Union a better place included killing millions of peasants for the good of the state. The ACA is going to kill thousands of Americans in order to force us into a single payer. And Medicare will still take everything we own.

You are being a bit of an absolutionist aren’t you? The ACA will kill thousands? Medicare will take everything we own? LOL! Your comments are more insane than the poster you are talking about. Relax, and take a deep breath. The sky is not falling.

Chimborazo wrote:Some day this all will morph into a single payer plan. As long as it is done right I am all for this. That should have been the goal to begin with.

The goal is to end the Nightmare called Healthcare in America. Read the article about the laid off energy workers in Grand Junction committing suicide after discovering they have to give their next three generations of wealth to the government before relieving Healthcare benefits. Suicide leaves their estates intact, and alleviates the cruel and unusual punishment of getting medicaid.http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ ... icide-rate

The putative goal has little or nothing to do with what is actually done. We can have all the dueling horror stories you want, some true and some false. But the fact is that the ACA isn't working and will not work. Just because you, like the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz, are chanting "I do believe, I do believe, I do believe......" doesn't make this unworkable plan workable.

Stalin's goal of making the Soviet Union a better place included killing millions of peasants for the good of the state. The ACA is going to kill thousands of Americans in order to force us into a single payer. And Medicare will still take everything we own.

You are being a bit of an absolutionist aren’t you? The ACA will kill thousands? Medicare will take everything we own? LOL! Your comments are more insane than the poster you are talking about. Relax, and take a deep breath. The sky is not falling.

What is your basis for saying that? ACA is ending people's medical care. Read the news. As for Medicare, you obviously have never dealt first hand with the issue. No, the sky isn't falling. But ACA is killings people, Medicare does take people's wealth, and smugly uneducated know-nothings make stupid comments.

I recommend that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast should be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast. --- Viktor Frankl

Chimborazo wrote:Some day this all will morph into a single payer plan. As long as it is done right I am all for this. That should have been the goal to begin with.

The goal is to end the Nightmare called Healthcare in America. Read the article about the laid off energy workers in Grand Junction committing suicide after discovering they have to give their next three generations of wealth to the government before relieving Healthcare benefits. Suicide leaves their estates intact, and alleviates the cruel and unusual punishment of getting medicaid.http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ ... icide-rate

The putative goal has little or nothing to do with what is actually done. We can have all the dueling horror stories you want, some true and some false. But the fact is that the ACA isn't working and will not work. Just because you, like the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz, are chanting "I do believe, I do believe, I do believe......" doesn't make this unworkable plan workable.

Stalin's goal of making the Soviet Union a better place included killing millions of peasants for the good of the state. The ACA is going to kill thousands of Americans in order to force us into a single payer. And Medicare will still take everything we own.

You are being a bit of an absolutionist aren’t you? The ACA will kill thousands? Medicare will take everything we own? LOL! Your comments are more insane than the poster you are talking about. Relax, and take a deep breath. The sky is not falling.

What is your basis for saying that? ACA is ending people's medical care. Read the news. As for Medicare, you obviously have never dealt first hand with the issue. No, the sky isn't falling. But ACA is killings people, Medicare does take people's wealth, and smugly uneducated know-nothings make stupid comments.

I was trying to talk you off the proverbial ledge.

If you look at the recent study by Rand Corp. you will find that the Net Gain of American Adults with Health Insurance will be an estimated 9.3 million (some will lose coverage potentially but the gain will outpace the loss resulting in a net increase).

Chimborazo wrote:Some day this all will morph into a single payer plan. As long as it is done right I am all for this. That should have been the goal to begin with.

What makes you believe that it will be done right?

Obviously this is the concern (with anything basically). The way congress is so unwilling to work together on anything right now and as much as they are putting ideology in front of pragmatism it is certainly an uphill battle (and I don't see this happening anytime soon anyway).

I think if the Scandinavian countries such as Sweden can do it right we should be able to do it right. Right? After all, if you can put a man on the moon....etc.

By the way, the business community would not mind this either since they can then get out of the business of trying to provide Health Insurance for their employees and push some of that savings into compensation, research and development, improving business technology and infrustrucute, etc.

Again, I ask the question, what makes you think it will be done right? The public education system is another train wreck which we can't fix.

If you look at many European countries, they have a two tier health care system. Public and private. The rich buy decent care and the government kills people in public care. But they doctor their results so it looks better.

Government projects have a horrible record of efficiency. In my mind, it is because they are monopolies. Look at what happened to the phone system when ATT got broken up. It used to cost (in 1970) $1 a minute to call overseas. That is the equivalent of probably $8 now. Whereas my current phone system allows me to call most of Western Europe and the US for $30 a month, $5 of which is taxes.

If you look at outcomes for many countries that have government run healthcare systems, which by the way, is most developed countries, you will find that the per capita cost is close to half of what we spend and the overall outcomes are better. We have room for improvement. Is our government sophisticated enough to do a good job? Hard to say…but one would hope so.

Public education in this country is in the middle of the pack for developing countries and there are many reasons for this. It is run from local, state, and federal level with the states getting most control. Perhaps we should look to Finland and see how they are able to produce such stellar results with their system (which is also government run and public). This simply proves that if done correctly we can improve in public education and with single payer care even if it is run by the government. Other countries have proven this. This of course, goes back to your original question. Can we do it? I say sure we can.

Here is an example about the coming rage that Democrats will face in November. My friend works for a small company of about 100 employees. The company's current health care plan costs are $200/month premium, $1,000 deductible, $20 copay, and few restrictions on prescription benefits. The new plan will have $241/month premiums, $4,000 deductible, $50 copays, and more restrictions on prescription benefits. I did not check about physician availability. The costs have roughly doubled to comply with Obamacare.

This example highlights the terrible Obamacare policies available without subsidies. Policies have relatively high premiums, large deductibles, at least moderate copays, and limitations in providers and prescription coverage. Democrats used to deride such policies but now their law has led to the proliferation of such policies.

Almost all new Obamacare enrollments are highly (substantial exchange subsidies) or totally subsidized (Medicaid) along with really sick individuals especially chronic diseases such HIV. The insurance companies are reporting that drug usage on new enrollees is substantially different than their pre Obamacare populations especially for very expensive drugs required for chronic diseases. To increase welfare, Obamacare was not needed. Democrats could have simply increased Medicaid spending and provided tax relief to low income individuals for health insurance purchases. All of the other nonsense in Obamacare is just Democrats increasing the cost of health insurance for everyone else so that Democrat priorities can be encoded in law.

The terrible wellness profile of new enrollments indicates that the estimated costs of Obamacare are dramatically understated. Many healthy people are not obtaining health insurance because of exorbitant Obamacare costs. This problem will cascade as insurance rates will need to be increased to compensate for the terrible profiles. However, additional major cost increases will only push more healthy people out of enrollments, leading to an insurance death spiral. Democrats (including many posters here) welcome the death spiral (not to be confused with the coming Democrat death panels) so that a single payer solution can be enacted.

Another nasty surprise in Obamacare is that health insurance can effectively only be purchased in the open enrollment period, a major change for a large part of the population. Insurance companies will not sell policies outside of this window to curb opportunistic behavior (only purchasing health insurance when sick). Unfortunately, a large part of the population woke up on April 1 to discover the inability to purchase health insurance until January 1, 2015.

Last edited by ConservativeProf on April 10th, 2014, 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.