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Need help getting Bench Press back up

My bench press is going down and I need advice for a new workout to get it back up stronger than it originally was. I went from doing 10 reps on my first set with 165 to doing it about 15 reps in about 3 weeks. I worked on my chest every Monday and Thursday. My workout consisted of:

Bench Press 5 sets 165lbs as many reps as I could do every set
Military Press 5 sets of 110 lbs 12 reps each set
Butterflies (dumbell flyes) 5 sets of 45lbs in each arm as many reps as I could do every set
Dips 4 sets of 10 reps with no weight and 1 set of as many reps as possible.

But recently I have dropped back down to being able to do 165lbs only about 12 times on my first set and my chest feels like it has shrunk.

My max bench was at about 240lbs, not sure what it is now but I would be very lucky if I could even do 230lbs now.

I have taken a break from doing any kind of chest workout for about a week except for doing about 5 sets of close grip pushups for 20 reps. I plan on starting back soon and need some advice on what I should do to get my bench press back up.

Currently I am planning on starting over with doing this routine every Monday and Thursday:

Bench Press 5 sets of 145lbs as many reps as I can do every set
Military Press 5 sets of 110 12 reps every set
Behind Neck Shoulder Press 3 sets of 90lbs 12 reps every set
Butterflies 5 sets of 45lbs as many reps as I can do every set
Close Grip Pushups 5 sets of 20 reps ever set

My bench press is going down and I need advice for a new workout to get it back up stronger than it originally was. I went from doing 10 reps on my first set with 165 to doing it about 15 reps in about 3 weeks. I worked on my chest every Monday and Thursday. My workout consisted of:

Bench Press 5 sets 165lbs as many reps as I could do every set
Military Press 5 sets of 110 lbs 12 reps each set
Butterflies (dumbell flyes) 5 sets of 45lbs in each arm as many reps as I could do every set
Dips 4 sets of 10 reps with no weight and 1 set of as many reps as possible.

But recently I have dropped back down to being able to do 165lbs only about 12 times on my first set and my chest feels like it has shrunk.

My max bench was at about 240lbs, not sure what it is now but I would be very lucky if I could even do 230lbs now.

I have taken a break from doing any kind of chest workout for about a week except for doing about 5 sets of close grip pushups for 20 reps. I plan on starting back soon and need some advice on what I should do to get my bench press back up.

Currently I am planning on starting over with doing this routine every Monday and Thursday:

Bench Press 5 sets of 145lbs as many reps as I can do every set
Military Press 5 sets of 110 12 reps every set
Behind Neck Shoulder Press 3 sets of 90lbs 12 reps every set
Butterflies 5 sets of 45lbs as many reps as I can do every set
Close Grip Pushups 5 sets of 20 reps ever set

Any advice on any other routine that might be helpful?

The KISS routine is an excellent one. Not flaming you but your routine is too much work. Way too much sets and way way too many reps if you are trying to gain strength. Keep doing this and you are looking at shoulder surgery in your future.

Very often in bodybuilding less is more. Drop the butterflies they are not a particularly good mass or strength builder. Drop the behind the neck shoulder press. Those can destroy your rotator cuff. Drop the pushups. Pushups are only really good for...well doing pushups.

Cut back your reps to five on the bench and military press. Increase the weight. Do this ONCE a week. If you MUST train chest twice a week, go with dips the second training day. Do not train again if still sore from your previous workout.

Everyone on every internet site will have a different idea on "training to failure" Facts are if you want to build the most amount of muscle possible in the least amount of time then you must push to failure on every single set. You will still build muscle if you go close but not as much as if you reach failure. If you lift 3 times a week for one hour each time for a year there will only be about a total of 4 hours in that whole year that you will create the spark that allow decent muscle to be built. [Given diet and rest} It is at that time when you struggle to get that last rep from any given lift or pull.

Everyone on every internet site will have a different idea on "training to failure" Facts are if you want to build the most amount of muscle possible in the least amount of time then you must push to failure on every single set. You will still build muscle if you go close but not as much as if you reach failure. If you lift 3 times a week for one hour each time for a year there will only be about a total of 4 hours in that whole year that you will create the spark that allow decent muscle to be built. [Given diet and rest} It is at that time when you struggle to get that last rep from any given lift or pull.

care to elaborate on this magical 4 total hours in the whole year that will create decent muscle growth? Feel free to submit any kind of study that backs up exactly what you're saying.

And yes, training to "failure" is a tricky subject because people tend to have different ideas of what exactly failure is. As long as you're overloading your muscle, I don't believe it's necessary to go to failure on every single set every single time you train (this is what it sounds like you're suggesting). Sounds like a sure fire way to burn out and fry your CNS to me.

Everyone on every internet site will have a different idea on "training to failure" Facts are if you want to build the most amount of muscle possible in the least amount of time then you must push to failure on every single set.

Regardless of what training to "failure" means, your above sentence is not a fact.

Originally Posted by ribs

You will still build muscle if you go close but not as much as if you reach failure.

Wrong. Where did you read this stuff?

Originally Posted by ribs

If you lift 3 times a week for one hour each time for a year there will only be about a total of 4 hours in that whole year that you will create the spark that allow decent muscle to be built. [Given diet and rest}

WHAT? You can only build muscle over 4 hours over a whole year? Ludicrous. Utterly so.

Originally Posted by ribs

It is at that time when you struggle to get that last rep from any given lift or pull.

STOP giving "advice" please. You failed to make a single correct point. Not only that, you reactivated a nearly 2 year old thread. What's up with that?

You don't have to agree with me. Just because i have different view to you does not mean it is wrong. 4 hours a year? well actually its less than that. What i am saying is that if you do 1 set of 5-7 reps of whatever than the first 1 to 4 reps are only there to get you to the last couple of reps where real muscle break down happens. Add up the time it takes to do those last couple of reps on every set in your workout and its a lot less than 4 hours a year that trully stimulates muscle breakdown. Thats all i'm saying

Fried CNS? Doing endless sets and reps and spending to long in the gym may
do that. Small sets and low reps will not. I train to failure. What you do is up to you.

ribs, it's not a matter of opinion or views. You stated the following...

Facts are if you want to build the most amount of muscle possible in the least amount of time then you must push to failure on every single set. You will still build muscle if you go close but not as much as if you reach failure.

You stated something as a fact when it is completely false. That's what makes you wrong.

You can train to failure all you want, but you're not helping hypertrophy. Instead all you're doing is causing way more neural fatigue than necessary, simply prolonging how long it takes your body to recover from the workout.

You don't have to agree with me. (1) Just because i have different view to you does not mean it is wrong.

4 hours a year? well actually its less than that. What i am saying is that if you do 1 set of 5-7 reps of whatever than the (2) first 1 to 4 reps are only there to get you to the last couple of reps where real muscle break down happens. (3) Add up the time it takes to do those last couple of reps on every set in your workout and its a lot less than 4 hours a year that trully stimulates muscle breakdown. Thats all i'm saying

Fried CNS? Doing endless sets and reps and spending to long in the gym may
do that. Small sets and low reps will not. (4) I train to failure. What you do is up to you.

(numbers are mine)

1. As another poster said it has nothing to do with a different view. You stated an opinion as fact. At best it is unprovable and at worst false as there are people who have made BETTER gains going short of "failure" by any standards.

2. So if you are doing your one rep max...or triple max, it is impossible to experience "real muscle breakdown"?

3. What is the magic range of reps...how many do you have to do before experiencing "real muscle breakdown"?

4. Training to "failure" EVERY time (if by failure you mean you can not do another rep no matter what) is very likely overload your CNS eventually. Unless of course you are doing only a few sets (for example 2,3,4.. sets) per workout. Then you might get away with it.

But if you are training with 15-20 sets per workout and going to complete failure on all of them (failure in this case means where you can not possibly do another rep) and you train 3-4 days a week in this fashion you are extremely likely to experience CNS burnout at some point in the future.

That's because it doesn't work as well as he says. The OP has no clue what he is talking about, and by now that is evident. All the OP has to know is that he will not be regarded with any credibility here. We all know he is wrong because we have been there done that, or at least I have, and we know the road goes nowhere. If he cannot man-up to accept that then fine. He will waste some time training to failure, then will (should) do some reading on wannabebig.com and then maybe revise his preconcieved notions. Then, friends, he will realize that though this be madness, there be method in't where as his is simply madness.

Try telling Sean Nalewanyj that you don't have to train to failure.
MuscleGainTruth,com. Its one of the must do's in his program.

Could you at least give us an idea on how it is structured? It really depends on how it is implemented into the routine. If there are rest periods within the program to help with recovery then it's likely training to failure won't negatively effect you that much. However, this does not mean it is necessary, nor that it helps hypertrophy.

I'll quote a t-nation article...

5. Donít Train to Failure

Failure training (appropriately named) mandates extended rest periods. One of the most evident downfalls of training to failure is the amount of fatigue it induces. The cardiovascular demand, excessive lactic acid build-up, and nervous system fatigue caused by a single set of squats or deadlifts to failure is enough to have you hurling and trembling like Linda Blair. When youíre pushing the clock, thereís no time to sit around and wait for your muscles to pull themselves out of the hole youíve dug for them.

In addition to longer rest periods that must be incorporated within the workout, failure training also extends your recovery time between workouts. My empirical evidence has shown this increase in recovery time to be upwards of an additional 48 hours! This is bad news for those who are interested in multiple total-body sessions throughout the week. Therefore, you shouldn't approach failure until the last rep of the last set of each exercise, if at all.

Not to mention, going to failure on heavy compounds just leaves you more prone to injury. I couldn't imagine going to failure on heavy deadlifts.

Arnold condones kickbacks in some articles. Do you believe everything you read or have you had good results training to failure? How do these results compare to the results that are from advice e have given you? The problem is that: YOU DON'T KNOW. You obviously have not spent nearly as much time in the gym with REAL experience as others here have.

First things first though, anwser these before we go on further:
1. How long have you been SERIOUSLY lifting?
2. What are you current stats? (age, weight, height, bf, bench, DL, squat, we need proof on the lifts)
3. What were your stats before you began training to failure?
4. Have you tried any other programs for an appropriate amount of time?

Try telling Sean Nalewanyj that you don't have to train to failure.
MuscleGainTruth,com. Its one of the must do's in his program.

How long can you keep this going before you try and open your mind and let new and possibly better information seep into that skull of yours? There is not one and only one way to train. You need to understand this and you need to let it absorb into your brain. Seriously...this is getting ridiculous.

you shouldn't be going to failure on every set, don't even worry about that...train sets and reps (based on your goals) and worry about increasing the weight each week.

For example:

You're doing bench press today and you're going to use the 5x5 method

here's how it went...

205x5
205x5
205x5
205x4
205x4

technically on the last two sets you "failed" (to get the 5th rep anyway)..it's not absolute failure, but it is failure (structured at least). The next week you would aim to get all sets of 5 reps...when you could do that you'd up the weight 5-10 lbs and start over, trying to get 5 reps on all sets