B&W Research Thread

Apparantly, Ditto actually copies the stat boosts of items in gen 4.(as seen in the bold)
If it did completely copy stats, then Ditto would outspeed the Hihidaruma, but It didn't meaning the transformation mechanics were tweaked.

So lets say I have Hihidaruma had 200 speed + Scarf (300 speed in total). Ditto would copy the 200 speed stat, but NOT the scarf boost. It needs to use it's OWN scarf to tie with Hihidaruma, and that's why I think Hihidaruma outsped him.

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the mechanics have not changed. ditto transforms and takes any stat boosts this is true. however choice scarf, band and specs are not considered stat boosts as you never see the text say "so-and-so's attack raised.". just like the double speed from Unburden cannot be baton passed as it isnt actually raising your speed by boosts, it is just doubling your speed overall.

so here is what i figure. boosts such as Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Choice Specs, DeepSeaTooth, DeepSeaScale, Light Ball, Unburden boost, Thick Club, and any type of boost that doesn't specifically increase a stat by +1, +2, etc. is not copied by Transform and will only receive those boosts if that pokemon meets those qualifications as well. for example: if your ditto has a Thick Club equipped and transforms into an enemy Marowak or if Ditto has a Choic Scarf and transforms into Hihidurama.

Transform does exactly what the description says. it transforms into the pokemon with all of its Stat Boosts intact, and items like choice scarf and abilities like unburden do not count as boosts so they are not factored in (unless of course ditto uses his item after he transforms into an unburden pokemon). i hope that makes sense?

Whatever the stat number is of the opposing pokemon, that stat is copied without question by Ditto.

A Choice item held by Ditto is then used to apply a further boost onto the newly copied stat.

If the above assumptions hold, then this is what should happen:

Hihidaruma has 200 Spd, or 300 Spd with Choice Scarf

If Ditto DOES NOT hold a Choice Scarf and switches in, it should copy the 300 exactly, since Choice Scarf actually changes the Spd stat (as opposed to something like Custap Berry, which is "invisible" as far as stats are concerned). By this, I do not mean that it adds a +1 modifier to Spd, but that the actual stat of the pokemon is changed.

If Ditto DOES hold a Choice Scarf and switches in, it should copy the 300 and then apply the Choice Scarf boost on top of that, ending up with with 450 Spd.

If the above does not happen, then it could mean one or more of the following:

Choice Items no longer directly edit the stat. They apply a "hidden" boost. (this is unlikely)

Transform ignores boosts applied by the enemy's Choice items. (actually, this could apply for items in general. Would an itemless Ditto switching into a Thick Club Marowak copy the doubled Atk or the base Atk?)

Transform DOES copy the stat exactly, but the game prevents double stacking of Choice item boosts. Perhaps the game knows that a particular stat is already Choice-boosted and prevents further boosting of it.

the mechanics have not changed. ditto transforms and takes any stat boosts this is true. however choice scarf, band and specs are not considered stat boosts as you never see the text say "so-and-so's attack raised.". just like the double speed from Unburden cannot be baton passed as it isnt actually raising your speed by boosts, it is just doubling your speed overall.

so here is what i figure. boosts such as Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Choice Specs, DeepSeaTooth, DeepSeaScale, Light Ball, Unburden boost, Thick Club, and any type of boost that doesn't specifically increase a stat by +1, +2, etc. is not copied by Transform and will only receive those boosts if that pokemon meets those qualifications as well. for example: if your ditto has a Thick Club equipped and transforms into an enemy Marowak or if Ditto has a Choic Scarf and transforms into Hihidurama.

Transform does exactly what the description says. it transforms into the pokemon with all of its Stat Boosts intact, and items like choice scarf and abilities like unburden do not count as boosts so they are not factored in (unless of course ditto uses his item after he transforms into an unburden pokemon). i hope that makes sense?

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If this is indeed the case, it would answer all of the above questions. Can someone test/confirm this? If it has already been confirmed, then sorry for the repeat question.

Whatever the stat number is of the opposing pokemon, that stat is copied without question by Ditto.

A Choice item held by Ditto is then used to apply a further boost onto the newly copied stat.

If the above assumptions hold, then this is what should happen:

Hihidaruma has 200 Spd, or 300 Spd with Choice Scarf

If Ditto DOES NOT hold a Choice Scarf and switches in, it should copy the 300 exactly, since Choice Scarf actually changes the Spd stat (as opposed to something like Custap Berry, which is "invisible" as far as stats are concerned). By this, I do not mean that it adds a +1 modifier to Spd, but that the actual stat of the pokemon is changed.

If Ditto DOES hold a Choice Scarf and switches in, it should copy the 300 and then apply the Choice Scarf boost on top of that, ending up with with 450 Spd.

If the above does not happen, then it could mean one or more of the following:

Choice Items no longer directly edit the stat. They apply a "hidden" boost. (this is unlikely)

Transform ignores boosts applied by the enemy's Choice items. (actually, this could apply for items in general. Would an itemless Ditto switching into a Thick Club Marowak copy the doubled Atk or the base Atk?)

Transform DOES copy the stat exactly, but the game prevents double stacking of Choice item boosts. Perhaps the game knows that a particular stat is already Choice-boosted and prevents further boosting of it.

Can someone test whether or not a scarfed Ditto that comes in against another scarfed Pokemon will always out speed?

I ask because I had a wifi battle the other day where my scarf Hihidaruma still out sped a Ditto (both were leads, so it transformed into me) and was able to KO it. I would have asked my opponent if he was running a scarf or not, but he left the chat I was on and didn't come back.

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I just tested scarf ditto vs other scarf mons and it turns out it's a normal 50/50 chance to go first.

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I tested this by using two DSes and scarfing all the opposing Pokemon. I sent out scarfed eccentric Ditto and had both Pokemon spam boosting moves until ditto went second. I repeated this against four different Pokemon and ditto failed to go first 100% of the time.

This means Ditto doesn't always go first and does not copy Choice Scarf boosts.

Regarding Sky Jewel + Acrobat. You get both boosts. You use the Sky Jewel right before attacking so Acrobat has double power on top of the Sky Jewel boost. When I tried this I did about 3x normal Acrobat damage.

Multiplier from stat modifiers are applied on the target's original attack stat then the stats are averaged:
254 Attack, 42-49 Damage

The first attack by Doryuuzu did 52 damage, which means Power Share takes the base value of the target and the user's attacking stats, and applies stat modifiers after. Thus, Power Share can't be used to "tap into" a target's stat boostings.

Guard Share probably works in the same way as Power Share, but I'll probably test that to be sure another time. Also, I'll test if the attack boosting from Choice items get shared or not.

Posting to confirm that Balloon pops even if the holder is behind a substitute. Tested this with a Magnezone holding a Balloon against a wild Lunatone. I subbed as it Psychiced, and the Balloon still popped.

Yes it does. If there is no good reason to believe the mechanics may have changed, then it's not something to consider testing. Only if someone discovers it's not acting as expected will it be put on the testing list. Which I will be updating now for the last few pages.

Looks like I'm going to have to put up a dedicated "things Serebii got wrong" list.

Looks like I'm going to have to put up a dedicated "things Serebii got wrong" list.

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Just make a rule not to use serebii as a source for game mechanics lol, as that list would take ages to make.

I often wonder if the serebii administration just makes up those mechanics. I mean while solid rock's mistake could be attributed to a typo, it doesn't explain why they think the Jewels only work below 33% HP

Beat Up: how is its damage calculated now?

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I have tested Beat up with the fellowing results:
All beat up tests have been done against a Blissey with max Def ev's/Iv's and Bold nature.

It seems that beat up ignores all STAB/IV/EV/Nature/Item modifications.
Also the game doesn't say who is doing the beat up damage like it did in shoddy battle(which made the test very difficult). Not sure if this is a change from Gen 4 or a mistake from Shoddy battle though.

However does anyone know how you can calculate damage on base stats alone? I have searched everywhere but i couldn't find it.

Sorry if I couldn't post earlier (didn't have internet for 2 days), but I do have tested Hi Jump Kick against an Impish Crobat 252 HP / 252 Def, so that Blaziken's Hi Jump Kick would have dealt between 46 and 54 HP (92 and 108 HP if critical hit) and despite that when Blaziken missed its Hi Jump Kick it still sustained 150 HP of 301 due to crash damage.

EDIT : This is true as well for Jump Kick, Stantler missed one against the same Crobat and crash damage makes Stantler lose 132 HP of 264.

Jump Kick and Hi Jump Kick really doesn't take into account resistances, weaknesses and immunities and will make the user lose 1/2 of its max HP rounded down.

So it looks like we're working with a new formula here. If it were truly the same as last gen, Machamp would be doing 94-111 damage to Blissey with Beat Up.

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Yes, my initial thought was that while it might ignore offensive modifications it doesn't do the defensive ones. And these results seem to confirm my theory
252EV/31IV Att Adamant Machamp using Beat up against Hasty Blissey with 0EV/IV in Def did 157-171 damage(highest and lowest achieved after 10 tries)

Also all those damage calculations from Absols are token from Machamp using Beat up(with Absol being the '3th' member of the team).
It is possible that i accidently took Machamp Beat up's calculations rather then Absols so i'm doing the test again.
Edit: Retested the earlier results are correct, 37 minimum- 44 maximum damage from a Absol with 0EV/0IV and Timid nature

Elemental Gems: Does it "power up" even if the move does not deal damage? Such as Flame Gem powering up Will-O-Wisp?

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No, my Fire based Elemental Gem did not activate when Burunkuru used WoW

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When I was going to Kyurem's cave, a wild Ditto appeared. I switched into Giratina-O as it transforms. Ditto Transformed into Giratina-O, as opposed to the previous generation where it'd transform into Giratina-O and immediately transform into Giratina-A. With this in mind, what other mechanic changes are there on Transform?

Not sure if this was already known, but Sand Throw also gives an immunity to sandstorm damage. I was just in a wifi battle and my porygon2 came in on a doryuuzu and traced its sand throw and the entire time p2 was in it did not take any ss damage.