The funny thing is, despite having, what, a 2004/2005 GPU in the Xbox now, the games manage to get better. No, it's not PC-quality, but my point is that they don't NEED a $400, cutting-edge GPU in a console to make good-looking games. Yes, price is the issue here. If they start building consoles with high-end PC parts, then the consoles are going to cost $800+ and drive people away. The points of PC gaming over console is REALLY that a console is more affordable than a gaming PC.

I personally still don't see myself ever going fully to PC gaming beyond WoW and a few other titles I have on PC because of the longevity of my gaming on Xbox LIVE and the lack of ANYTHING on the level of Halo, Gears of War, or Forza on the PC. If they EVER get around to releasing new Quake and Unreal titles on PC, I'd probably get THEM on PC, as their online communities never really take off on console (except for the first Unreal Championship back in 2002/2003, which was one of the first Xbox LIVE FPS titles and was GREAT fun).

I've questioned two route for console hardware for a little while now.

1. They could make the GPU in the console accessible and swappable. this would help upgrade graphics in consoles to a greater level, while hopefully preventing any potential "holding back" of PC graphics to cater to consoles. You could just do like PC games now, where you have a graphics setting. Sell the console with a baseline GPU for $250-300, or sell an empty one for maybe $150-200 and let you pick your GPU. The downside here would be if kids and parents were confused by the two-console model (buying the GPU-less machine thinking it's just cheap), and the potential confusion over "what's a GPU?" from those same people. I guess Best Buy could price gouge a GPU installation that takes 30 seconds and charge $150 for it, they love that stuff (remember when they had a $130 console installation service?).

2. They could replace consoles with HDDs. Sell an Xbox OS on a hard drive, let people slap it into a desktop PC (maybe have 2.5" versions as well, perhaps USB-capable drives for laptops?), and use their current PC hardware to run games. The OBVIOUS downside here being that you'd have to get Xbox games onto a PC-compliant disc format (if they're not already), or people would have to get new disc drives (if you don't go to all-digital sales). There might also have to be a MASSIVE software overhaul to get the OS compatible with PC hardware over console hardware (which I don't think is 100% the same). I'd love this route, but I think it'd be a much slower one.

I was also just thinking of another...

3. Just let us link our Xbox LIVE accounts to Steam and do Xbox LIVE through it. Make separate lobbies/servers (or even launchers, if you want) for using a controller vs. a mouse-keyboard setup, so they're not getting mixed together and controller-using players aren't getting DESTROYED. Like I said, the major roadblock from having me go to PC gaming is that I do not want to give up all of my friends and achievements (they're just visuals, but still sentimentally meaningful, I guess) of the past 9+ years.

The funny thing is, despite having, what, a 2004/2005 GPU in the Xbox now, the games manage to get better. No, it's not PC-quality, but my point is that they don't NEED a $400, cutting-edge GPU in a console to make good-looking games. Yes, price is the issue here. If they start building consoles with high-end PC parts, then the consoles are going to cost $800+ and drive people away. The points of PC gaming over console is REALLY that a console is more affordable than a gaming PC.

It's nothing new that games get better throughout a generation. Developers start to learn the ins and outs of the architecture, and become more efficient at coding for them. You'll also always get more out of console hardware when compared to its PC equivalent simply for the fact that every console is the same, unlike on the PC where you have to code with a virtually limitless number of configurations in mind. Because of this you sometimes even get release titles that look worse than some from the previous generation, but it's cyclical.

On the topic of cost, console manufacturers usually sell at a loss, at the very least in the first few years of a generation (unless you're Nintendo, which is of course made of magic). They hedge on making their money back through software purchases, so more often than not you'll be getting more than your money's worth in hardware when the new XBOX or Playstation comes around.

Originally Posted by shroudster

it was some 6xxx ati card which wasn't even anything special during it's launch time iirc (and is already dated by the time the damm 720 hits the store)

Well, on the bright side I suppose it will at least have DX11 support.

still it won't change game developers to make better (graphical) games since tablets and smartphones are the money milk cow for that.
somewhere,sometime, something went horrible wrong when quality of games lost it. (i don't even recall "bad games" from my childhood)

Terrible games have existed since the dawn of consoles, more so in history than present. Atari / NES era was particularly atrocious which forced Nintendo into their entire "approved" licensing system. Even with that aside, there were still 9 god awful games on that system for every 1 decent game. The only noticeable change in quality occurred with the release of 3D capable systems (PS1/N64/Saturn). Small studios with small teams that could easily handle cartridge releases suddenly couldn't keep up anymore and got gobbled up by larger publishers.

While larger publishers doesn't mean awesome quality games, it typically weeds out the absolute trash which was so abundant all the way through SNES/Genesis.

Originally Posted by Milkshake86

Wii is coming the soonest, its been known for atleast 2011/2012 that 2013 holidays would yield the new consoles, possibly earlier. The new xbox will feature a form of windows 8 etc

Never going to happen. They're not going to randomly announce, then release a console in one year's time. It takes much, much more time and marketing to release a console. IF they decide to announce for example this holiday season, (as with every other console announcement > release timeline) we would be looking at a release around Summer 2014 at the earliest. Wii U was announced 1.5 years ago.

People seem to remember the good games, and pretend the bad ones never existed. I have to wonder how much of that is people just playing the classics from before their time which survived, and then looking at a similar landscape today. Or just people who don't like certain types of modern games that many people enjoy, and make the sweeping statement that modern games are bad.

People seem to remember the good games, and pretend the bad ones never existed. I have to wonder how much of that is people just playing the classics from before their time which survived, and then looking at a similar landscape today. Or just people who don't like certain types of modern games that many people enjoy, and make the sweeping statement that modern games are bad.

i think consoles lack originality, the last time i was in gamestop, every game was either based on a book/movie or had a number attached, usually >2

i sat there with my brother looking and out of the whole wall, we found 4 original games, so i would agree that games, at least the console games, are bad, they are getting stale and dont have any new and original content, ie black ops 2 is the 9th game in the COD series

so yes, i would say that compared the vast amount of games on PS1 and PS2/XBOX that a majority of modern console games are bad

i think consoles lack originality, the last time i was in gamestop, every game was either based on a book/movie or had a number attached, usually >2

i sat there with my brother looking and out of the whole wall, we found 4 original games, so i would agree that games, at least the console games, are bad, they are getting stale and dont have any new and original content, ie black ops 2 is the 9th game in the COD series

so yes, i would say that compared the vast amount of games on PS1 and PS2/XBOX that a majority of modern console games are bad

You would have to apply that logic to PC exclusive games being bad as well (they're not). Every genre has been rehashed a million times over, there's next to nothing to bring to the table anymore. You can't say PC gaming is superior in terms of the fun factor since the only exclusives that exist are going to be FPS/RTS/MMOs. All three of said genres have been around for 15-20+ years depending on which one.

It goes in steps, though. When the 3D era hit, everything was fresh and exciting because 3D gaming was an entirely new canvas to work with. Tons of possibilities that were never available with 2D consoles. Same went for the jump from digital to analog controls, introduction of HD gaming and so on.

BOTH PC and Consoles need some fresh ideas thrown their way, and it surely isn't panning out to be 3D glasses / monitors / TVs. That's the only way things will become "unstale" again.

You would have to apply that logic to PC exclusive games being bad as well (they're not). Every genre has been rehashed a million times over, there's next to nothing to bring to the table anymore. You can't say PC gaming is superior in terms of the fun factor since the only exclusives that exist are going to be FPS/RTS/MMOs. All three of said genres have been around for 15-20+ years depending on which one.

It goes in steps, though. When the 3D era hit, everything was fresh and exciting because 3D gaming was an entirely new canvas to work with. Tons of possibilities that were never available with 2D consoles. Same went for the jump from digital to analog controls, introduction of HD gaming and so on.

BOTH PC and Consoles need some fresh ideas thrown their way, and it surely isn't panning out to be 3D glasses / monitors / TVs. That's the only way things will become "unstale" again.

im not talking about the genres, im referring to the lack of new titles, why are we on "call of battleduty 37" make a new fps already

I think you guys are focusing on AAA titles as if they're the only things that exist. How are things like Primal Carnage and Natural Selection 2 not something different in FPS than the rest of the fold? Or games like PS2? That's hardly your average, run-of-the-mill MMO or FPS. Just because a game doesn't have a ton of money backing it, or an enormous playerbase and advertising campaign shoving right into the public eye doesn't make it nonexistent when it comes to discussing the generic nature of modern games. Activision and EA aren't the only companies that produce and publish games. You have plenty to play if you avoid them altogether. Sure the console market may be a bit stagnant in regards to the FPS genre, but what can they do? The interface makes anything more complicated than your generic CoD or Battlefield practically impossible.

It's not the case that there is no variety, especially with digital distribution pumping up the indie market. There's plenty of variety, and if there's a niche that hasn't been filled already you can just about bet the Indies or small developers are working to fill it. And plenty are making their way over to consoles as well.

i think consoles lack originality, the last time i was in gamestop, every game was either based on a book/movie or had a number attached, usually >2

i sat there with my brother looking and out of the whole wall, we found 4 original games, so i would agree that games, at least the console games, are bad, they are getting stale and dont have any new and original content, ie black ops 2 is the 9th game in the COD series

so yes, i would say that compared the vast amount of games on PS1 and PS2/XBOX that a majority of modern console games are bad

Ok, common sense tells you that:

1. That is due to TIME. OF course as gaming popularized, people found the finning formulas, and since they aren't improved upon, we are on the 9th Call of Duty (or whatever). It's why we have about 12 Guitar Hero titles and Rock Band 1-3, plus two band-specific titles. It is why we're on about the 10th Mario Party, and it's why we're on a sequel to a remake (New Super Mario Bros. 2, isn't it?). It's why we are seeing a CURRENT-GEN title (Need for Speed: Most Wanted) getting a remake, along with several "classic" games (Twisted Metal, Mortal Kombat, and It think Goldeneye come to mind). You're expecting innovation in an industry that punishes it harshly. If your new thing doesn't explode onto the scene, you're pretty much fired, so why risk making another Call of Duty: World at War if you're Treyarch, when you know people will eat up a quality Black Ops 2 instead? Sure, you could stumble upon another winner LIKE Black Ops, but why risk it when your team could lose several employees over it?

2. You say this like video games are the exception to the rule. What makes up music that's popular and/or on the radio? Redundant garbage with simple beats and no lyrical integrity. I guess you could call douchestep innovation, but so is throwing a dial-up modem into a blender while it's trying to connect to America OnLine. Remember what makes up some of the highest-grossing movies nowadays: the 8 Harry Potter titles, the last two Batman titles (meaning post-Batman Begins, which I liked), and the trio of Transformer films. Oh, and should I mention that ALL are unoriginal from the start? They're all based on books/comics. You have that with that line of Marvel movies that most-recently saw the release of The Avengers. You also are looking at Disney's acquisition of LucasArts, which is leading to a third TRILOGY of Star Wars films. Oh, and should I mention the NUMEROUS books in that franchise? How about the numerous books and games in the World of Warcraft universe?

I have to ask, since you're dogging the innovation of the video game industry: where IS there innovation? Facebook? That's a rehashed MySpace. Twitter? Facebook status on its own page. How many versions of CSI have people seen, and how many seasons have there been? New IP from any media market's been pretty lacking for a decent amount of time, if you really think about it.

Why is that, you wonder? These things are people's jobs. They are in it for making a living, so doing what WILL bring in a solid paycheck matters. It's why you see people milking The Office through its last season. It's why they hoped that the Scrubs reboot would take off. They have made money before, so they're seeing JUST how much can be made before people abandon those shows.

Sorry if you're disappointed by my statements, but the "lack of innovation" in video games can EASILY be applied to TV shows, music, movies, and probably books as well. If money can be made on it, it can be rehashed and milked to death.

i think consoles lack originality, the last time i was in gamestop, every game was either based on a book/movie or had a number attached, usually >2

i sat there with my brother looking and out of the whole wall, we found 4 original games, so i would agree that games, at least the console games, are bad, they are getting stale and dont have any new and original content, ie black ops 2 is the 9th game in the COD series

so yes, i would say that compared the vast amount of games on PS1 and PS2/XBOX that a majority of modern console games are bad

Blops is the 10th ( Xbox is a factor in the dwindling amount of games, Ps1/ps2 had so many because japanese titles were shelved in the U.S.)

They went downhill at COD4, PC games are also not really any different, just western console gamers are not fans of RTS/MMO even myself a wow junkie will not touch another MMO or RTS, and diablo 3 lul yea annual pass was trash.

@lilfrier, how does the industry punish anyone for innovation?? Totally remember everyone hating splinter cel...oh wait no they loved that, Hitma...yea seemingly loved that. I know it was the pop n shot body explosions in gears that got punished, no wait was it the huge changes in Need for Speed underground...no wait maybe kinda the madden QB vision and Hit sticking? hmmm noooo maybe its the Fight Night changes to make you really float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. No wait video games are constantly innovated.
Games are interactable stories cheap way out is book/movie related game story is premade. Other than that make a 1 off game and see how it sells if its not fun, fun is tried and true at this point and every story revenge, war, cop, robber, sports, and w/e you can think of its been done its how you change the play.

fuck yes, ive been considering installing ubuntu as a dual boot for a while now but that would seal the deal.

<start epic wow theme>
A world of limitless adventure. We cast the lords of shadow and flame back into the abyss.
<more epic wow theme>
We held the line against the rising tide of death itself.
<epic music peaks>
We have endured the breaking of the world.Now we face the Destroyer and we will end him.
<cue Bennny Hill music>Pandas! Pokemon!

@lilfrier, how does the industry punish anyone for innovation?? Totally remember everyone hating splinter cel...oh wait no they loved that, Hitma...yea seemingly loved that. I know it was the pop n shot body explosions in gears that got punished, no wait was it the huge changes in Need for Speed underground...no wait maybe kinda the madden QB vision and Hit sticking? hmmm noooo maybe its the Fight Night changes to make you really float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. No wait video games are constantly innovated.
Games are interactable stories cheap way out is book/movie related game story is premade. Other than that make a 1 off game and see how it sells if its not fun, fun is tried and true at this point and every story revenge, war, cop, robber, sports, and w/e you can think of its been done its how you change the play.

Splinter Cell really came out before gaming got BIG as it is now. There was still room for new IP and such. However, look at racing games. How many Need for Speed flops have we seen lately? The Run was bad, despite an allegedly-new, on-foot portion of the game. MY real point, though, is that you don't see that much innovation because of the fear of a major flop. You don't want to cost a lot of people a lot of jobs, so why would, say, Treyarch throw away a cash cow in Black Ops 2 for new IP that might not sell?

I'm not saying that there ISN'T innovation ever. I'm saying that the big paychecks of Call of Duty, Halo, and the like are incentive to skip innovation in favor of more money. They can innovate if people don't buy Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 19 or something, but until then, the industry wants big-time money whenever possible. I mean, I saw an article where EA said Dead Space 2 had to sell 5 million copies (not a small feat) just to continue existing.

What I'm getting at is I haven't seen much for new IP that really intrigued me. Now, I know part of that is because I am on Xbox 360, and Sony DOES win the battle of exclusives, in my mind. I stick with Xbox though because I know people on LIVE, reinvesting multi-platform games to a new system is expensive, and I haven't seen a PlayStation exclusive that intrigued me more than the trio of Halo, Gear of War, and Forza has.

But let me think for a minute, because I'm going to try to think of the last time I saw new IP coming out on the 360 that interested me, let alone the last one that I bought. OK, if you look at my Xbox LIVE history (gamertag's lil frier, if you actually care), the only new IP I have played in 2012 is Borderlands, and I was almost 3 years late to that party, seeing as that game came out in late-2009. My Xbox LIVE history doesn't accurately reflect my activity because I play a decent bit offline, but that doesn't change the fact that there just isn't a lot of compelling new IP, and it's because of the fact that companies are in it for money, and there's not a big selling point for new IP when you're breaking sales records.

Treyarch throws money no where they are paid by activision to develop, activision is aware of the cod noob babyboom. Black ops 2 however is everything MW3 was supposed to be and is quite enjoyable. Metal Gear was good, Socom could have been good but Socom is a case where it wasnt broken and they decided to fix it, keep in mind innovating an old franchise is much more dangerous than rehashing it, w/ updated graphics as a lot of gamers LOVE a specific play style and do not want to play otherwise. Keep in mind Crytek and Epic are not "Indie" developers and both have big things under there belt and planned for the future, were still waiting on new consoles so really why sink money into a sinking ship? These consoles are over the hill and on the way out, last tour so to say.

I guess that's true to an extent. You can call the consoles sinking ships, but you still see HUGE sales figures on big-ticket titles. In the case of Epic, they're still prepping another Gears of War. Unreal is allegedly on-hold until AT LEAST 2014, because they want the next title on the Unreal 4 engine. One instance of new IP was id's RAGE, which I personally felt was good. It was probably a notch below Bordlerlands, which I thought was a bit below Fallout 3. The game's nice and all, and I was REALLY impressed by the tech 5 engine it used, but it didn't get great reviews or sell a lot, which was disappointing.

Personally, I Wasn't expecting much from Modern Warfare 3, because after the first Black Ops, I really saw HOW BAD Modern Warfare 2 (which I loved during its time) really was. That Black Ops 2 is (according to you) really good is nice to hear, though. I can't say how much I trust companies to prep new IP, though. Sure, consoles are about to (HOPEFULLY) get refreshed in 2013, but we're also talking about a Gears of War franchise that's 7 years old, and was the last new IP I can recall from Epic. How old is that Call of Duty franchise? When was the last time we saw new IP from a major developer (I can't really call id one while Doom and Quake are getting ignored and nothing else is coming). Epic, Activision, 2K, Ubisoft? Those are the 4 that come to mind, and I think the newest IP there is Bordlerlands, which is 3 years old, probably followed by Assassin's Creed, which came out in 2006, right?

"I think in general that most customers and most developers are gonna find that [the PC is] a better environment for them," Newell told me. "Cause they won't have to split the world into thinking about 'why are my friends in the living room, why are my video sources in the living room different from everyone else?' So in a sense we hopefully are gonna unify those environments."

As long as it will have no stupid software restrictions, as that for example games played on the steambox also work on normal pcs. This might be a boost for pc gaming, bringing it on par with consoles (as far as sales go etc). I mean this will most likely have a set of hardware, which developers can use as a basis. Or am i to optimistic? :P

As long as it will have no stupid software restrictions, as that for example games played on the steambox also work on normal pcs. This might be a boost for pc gaming, bringing it on par with consoles (as far as sales go etc). I mean this will most likely have a set of hardware, which developers can use as a basis. Or am i to optimistic? :P

so far that is all we can hope for, configuring own consoles hell yea.
anytime soon , unlikely sadly

I mirror Zeara here. I hope it's really as simple as a "Steam OS" that can be easily overwritten. I hope the console itself will also be just a normal PC in terms of hardware, with room and options for expanding the machine.

I mirror Zeara here. I hope it's really as simple as a "Steam OS" that can be easily overwritten. I hope the console itself will also be just a normal PC in terms of hardware, with room and options for expanding the machine.

You'll get one or the other, not both. Or the price matches full-blown desktop PC making it kinda irrelevant. Hackers will buy cheap hardware if it can be used for unintended things which will eat into profits of the manufacturer so they either have to lock it or sell it at price which discourages weird uses.

Great example of this would be PS3 launch. People bought it as a BluRay player exclusively back when it cost several hundred USD less than dedicated BD players and Sony lost crazy amount of money when none of those people bought games or accessories which is where the console makers get their money from.

Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
Trolling should be.