Right now everybody is talking like Bird is negotiating the deals but isn't this Pritchard's dept. and what he was brought in for. Is it Pritch doing the deals and then getting Bird's approval? Are they negotiating together? I'm confused:laugh:

Heisenberg

12-12-2011, 04:26 PM

Who cares as long as they're good

PG-24

12-12-2011, 04:30 PM

Who cares as long as they're good

Agree with this.

I think its Pritchard though. He's a very savvy GM was only a matter of time before he put his stamp on us.

BillS

12-12-2011, 04:32 PM

Good God, Larry can't win for losing.

Who will be the first to claim Pritchard climbed into his Tardis and was responsible for the George Hill trade as well?

Heisenberg

12-12-2011, 04:33 PM

What if it's Brooke Olzendam?

Hicks

12-12-2011, 04:39 PM

Not Bird. Never Bird. Unless it sucked.

Peck

12-12-2011, 04:44 PM

Why does no one ever give David Moreway any credit? The man only orchestrated the largest trade exemption in league history (at the time) yet everybody assumes he's a boob.

I thought KP's problem is that he can be kind of a jerk to other GM's? I would give the credit to Bird but what do I know.

BPump33

12-12-2011, 04:46 PM

Why does no one ever give David Moreway any credit? The man only orchestrated the largest trade exemption in league history (at the time) yet everybody assumes he's a boob.

Hey, I like boobs.

BillS

12-12-2011, 04:47 PM

Why does no one ever give David Moreway any credit? The man only orchestrated the largest trade exemption in league history (at the time) yet everybody assumes he's a boob.

I really think we just finally have a FO where everyone has strengths that complement each others' weaknesses.

My only beef with Morway remains his ability to interact with internal personnel, but that has nothing to do with giving credit where it is due for trade activity.

Heisenberg

12-12-2011, 04:48 PM

I very much appreciate Morway, if their duties are split like I've always thought. Bird says who/what he wants, Morway making all the numbers work. Make a really nice duo.

vnzla81

12-12-2011, 04:48 PM

It has to be Bird, Pritchard is known for making multiple pieces trades and things like that.

glazedham42

12-12-2011, 04:48 PM

Why does no one ever give David Moreway any credit? The man only orchestrated the largest trade exemption in league history (at the time) yet everybody assumes he's a boob.

What deal was that? Not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to learn something today. :)

Gamble1

12-12-2011, 04:51 PM

I very much appreciate Morway, if their duties are split like I've always thought. Bird says who/what he wants, Morway making all the numbers work. Make a really nice duo.
Larry Birds Kato?

Gamble1

12-12-2011, 04:53 PM

What deal was that? Not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to learn something today. :)
JO I believe.

pathil275

12-12-2011, 04:53 PM

Wow that is extremely unfair to Larry Bird and David Morway (who people constantly seem to forget about).

I had my reservations about Bird and Morway, too, and my faith in them hit rock-bottom when they weren't able to file in the Memphis-trade in time.

But even though I questioned them quite a lot, they made me eat my words more than once.

I supported to tank the remainder of the horrible 09/10 season after being out of the playoff running. I wanted to increase our chance to get John Wall. Bird made it clear they will try to win every single game regardless and that losing on purpose wouldn't fit the culture they tried to build (the same relentless culture they showed in the 1st round series versus the Bulls). So we ended up with a late lottery pick and people didn't expect us to get anything better than a role player (best case). Instead, Bird took a flyer on a 19y old skinny guard from California (doesn't that sound familiar?) and right now our hopes of becoming a contender live and die with this kid (Paul George obviously).

I was furious that we didn't turn McRoberts into OJ Mayo (not because I don't like McRoberts, but because I thought -and still think- that we lack a SG who can create his own shot). I didn't care much about the 1st round pick either since I expected the Pacers to make the playoffs and didn't see much potential in this year's meager draft. Also, McRoberts helped us to make the playoffs and give the Bulls a tough time. Instead we kept our 1st round pick and turned it into local kid George Hill who happened to be the favorite player of Greg Popovich, arguably the best coach in the game right now. As it turns out, we are about to revive the McRoberts-Mayo trade but instead of giving up a pick we might do it straight up. Even better. Plus we don't have McRoberts under contract, so we basically turn nothing into OJ mayo.

Now people started to get impatient after TWO days of free agency gone by without the Pacers having made a splash. People started to make fun of Bird that Pendergraph would be the only guy he could lure to an up-and-coming team like the Pacers. Some even pushed him to overpay for Nene. And yes, admittedly, I also began to feel impatient. Bird proved me wrong again. He was not only able to get David West, who I consider a really good fit for reasons widely discussed (taking pressure off of Granger, let teams pay for double teams on Hibbert, able to make FG, good locker-room guy, veteran presence, and so on). No, he was also able to get him to sign for just two years which pretty much eliminates any risk his health may cause since he will become a valuable trading chip if he doesn't pan out. By the way, he beat the Boston Celtics to it who were very keen on West, too, and even offered him a longer contract.

So, I have high hopes in Bird. While Pritchard might be savvy, Bird is patient, unswerving. On top, he has a clear plan that he displayed some three years ago. He stuck to it no matter what. I value that.

Pacer Fan

12-12-2011, 04:54 PM

If I had to bet, I'd bet it is a team effort of the 3 Amigo's!

Unclebuck

12-12-2011, 04:57 PM

Why can't it be all three.

cgg

12-12-2011, 04:58 PM

What deal was that? Not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to learn something today. :)

Peja sign and trade. We used it to sign Al Harrington.

Infinite MAN_force

12-12-2011, 05:01 PM

Did Pritchard have anything to do with Murphy for Collison? Did he have anything to do with the George Hill trade? Did he have anything to do with the Mayo deal that fell apart at last year's deadline (of which this new deal is nearly identical)

Was Pritchard part of the group that flew out to see Nene? Then why should we believe he had anything to do with signing West?

After all the **** Bird has caught over the years, trying to give Pritchard the credit for recent moves is total BS. Give the man his due.

PR07

12-12-2011, 05:04 PM

I imagine it's Bird. He's always indicated that this would be the summer where we'd finally make a splash. That's not to say Morway and to a lesser extent Pritchard haven't played a role.

presto123

12-12-2011, 05:07 PM

Did Pritchard have anything to do with Murphy for Collison? Did he have anything to do with the George Hill trade? Did he have anything to do with the Mayo deal that fell apart at last year's deadline (of which this new deal is nearly identical)

Was Pritchard part of the group that flew out to see Nene? Then why should we believe he had anything to do with signing West?

After all the **** Bird has caught over the years, trying to give Pritchard the credit for recent moves is total BS. Give the man his due.

Unless you work in the Pacers FO you don't know anything for sure. It's possible that Pritch is doing most of the phone negotiating and making the suggestions for trade scenarios. Personally I think it's probably all three bouncing ideas off each other.

Sparhawk

12-12-2011, 05:09 PM

Wow that is extremely unfair to Larry Bird and David Morway (who people constantly seem to forget about).

I had my reservations about Bird and Morway, too, and my faith in them hit rock-bottom when they weren't able to file in the Memphis-trade in time.

But even though I questioned them quite a lot, they made me eat my words more than once.

I supported to tank the remainder of the horrible 09/10 season after being out of the playoff running. I wanted to increase our chance to get John Wall. Bird made it clear they will try to win every single game regardless and that losing on purpose wouldn't fit the culture they tried to build (the same relentless culture they showed in the 1st round series versus the Bulls). So we ended up with a late lottery pick and people didn't expect us to get anything better than a role player (best case). Instead, Bird took a flyer on a 19y old skinny guard from California (doesn't that sound familiar?) and right now our hopes of becoming a contender live and die with this kid (Paul George obviously).

I was furious that we didn't turn McRoberts into OJ Mayo (not because I don't like McRoberts, but because I thought -and still think- that we lack a SG who can create his own shot). I didn't care much about the 1st round pick either since I expected the Pacers to make the playoffs and didn't see much potential in this year's meager draft. Also, McRoberts helped us to make the playoffs and give the Bulls a tough time. Instead we kept our 1st round pick and turned it into local kid George Hill who happened to be the favorite player of Greg Popovich, arguably the best coach in the game right now. As it turns out, we are about to revive the McRoberts-Mayo trade but instead of giving up a pick we might do it straight up. Even better. Plus we don't have McRoberts under contract, so we basically turn nothing into OJ mayo.

Now people started to get impatient after TWO days of free agency gone by without the Pacers having made a splash. People started to make fun of Bird that Pendergraph would be the only guy he could lure to an up-and-coming team like the Pacers. Some even pushed him to overpay for Nene. And yes, admittedly, I also began to feel impatient. Bird proved me wrong again. He was not only able to get David West, who I consider a really good fit for reasons widely discussed (taking pressure off of Granger, let teams pay for double teams on Hibbert, able to make FG, good locker-room guy, veteran presence, and so on). No, he was also able to get him to sign for just two years which pretty much eliminates any risk his health may cause since he will become a valuable trading chip if he doesn't pan out. By the way, he beat the Boston Celtics to it who were very keen on West, too, and even offered him a longer contract.

So, I have high hopes in Bird. While Pritchard might be savvy, Bird is patient, unswerving. On top, he has a clear plan that he displayed some three years ago. He stuck to it no matter what. I value that.

I just want to say that you and pacergod2 make me want to set my avatar with a very hot Pacer cheerleader.

Did Pritchard have anything to do with Murphy for Collison? Did he have anything to do with the George Hill trade? Did he have anything to do with the Mayo deal that fell apart at last year's deadline (of which this new deal is nearly identical)

Was Pritchard part of the group that flew out to see Nene? Then why should we believe he had anything to do with signing West?

After all the **** Bird has caught over the years, trying to give Pritchard the credit for recent moves is total BS. Give the man his due.

Itís become beyond comical how the Bird antagonists continue to grasp for anything to discount his achievements. I mean, the guy was literally backed into a corner with 4 of the worst contracts in the NBA (Murphy, Dunleavy, Tins, JO). Iím sorry, but no one is going to give you a Tyreke Evans for our crap. He was patient and capitalized where he could (Hibbert, Collison, George Hill, and West). IMO, he also nailed the draft (Hibbert, Hans, George, Lance, AJ, etc). Rush was our only wiff, and itís not like we passed on a franchise player in the process.

Bird has done an excellent job turning a team with no future into one of the most promising young teams in the league.

The funniest thing is that the Bird antagonists never seem to disclose what they would have done differently. Please do so, and be specific (draft, trades, FA, etc).

troyc11a

12-12-2011, 05:12 PM

Unless you work in the Pacers FO you don't know anything for sure. It's possible that Pritch is doing most of the phone negotiating and making the suggestions for trade scenarios. Personally I think it's probably all three bouncing ideas off each other.

Maybe, but one thing is definite = Larry Bird is making the decisions. End of story. If this stuff blows up, he, not Pritchard will take the heat. So, let's just give Bird his props so far. It just hurts some on here to admit that Bird is doing a very good job!

Day-V

12-12-2011, 05:26 PM

It's El Pacero.

BillS

12-12-2011, 05:52 PM

It's El Pacero.

I'd go with that if this was the WNBA :zip:

FlavaDave

12-12-2011, 06:20 PM

Unless you work in the Pacers FO you don't know anything for sure. It's possible that Pritch is doing most of the phone negotiating and making the suggestions for trade scenarios. Personally I think it's probably all three bouncing ideas off each other.

His point was that all the moves he mentioned occurred before Pritchard was hired; therefore those moves couldn't have been Pritchard's doing.

Justin Tyme

12-12-2011, 06:53 PM

Why can't it be all three.

I had a post basically saying this, then someone phoned me and something happened that wouldn't allow it to be posted. If all 3 aren't involved in these trades, someone isn't doing their jobs.

Peck

12-12-2011, 07:08 PM

What deal was that? Not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to learn something today. :)

July 12, 2006: Signed and traded by Indiana to the then-New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets for draft rights of Andrew Betts

1984

12-12-2011, 07:10 PM

Bird, he brought Pritchard in.

AesopRockOn

12-12-2011, 07:40 PM

Hey, I like boobs.

Why can't it be all three.

Only on Mars.

presto123

12-12-2011, 07:50 PM

Only on Mars.

Total Recall.:dance:

Bball

12-12-2011, 08:46 PM

For those of you that think Bird is patient... Were you not here for the Donnie Walsh years? The Bird era (once Walsh was gone) has been like a free wheeling, don't let any moss grow, firestorm in comparison.

As for who is actually pulling off the trades and deals... I have no idea but I am going to assume there's a synergy involved with people in the FO having a dedicated role in the process and common vision. That's something that I couldn't see happening with both Walsh and Bird here because there's just no way I could picture them on the same page.

cdash

12-12-2011, 09:25 PM

I think it's Tim Tebow.

Pacerized

12-12-2011, 10:43 PM

It's Bird, and it's sad if anyone doubts it.
He's patient and frugal which is what why we need him in charge for a long time to come.
Pritchard is an asset, but if he were calling the shots our cap space would be spent by now.

Anthem

12-12-2011, 11:24 PM

For those of you that think Bird is patient... Were you not here for the Donnie Walsh years?
I remember him... he's the guy that blew up the talented and competitive 2000 team because he was convinced it would never be a contender, right? And restocked with young talent without missing the playoffs?

Yeah, I could see how he'd look like a "slow and safe moves" kinda guy.

Bball

12-13-2011, 12:43 AM

I remember him... he's the guy that blew up the talented and competitive 2000 team because he was convinced it would never be a contender, right? And restocked with young talent without missing the playoffs?

Yeah, I could see how he'd look like a "slow and safe moves" kinda guy.

He didn't get the name Donnie Do Nothing from me... I believe that came from a local media source.

But the point remains, the amount of roster turnover and level of the moves since Walsh left makes Walsh look like he was in slow motion. Or maybe he was in slow motion.....

If it all can culminate into something is another story... But don't try and pretend there's any comparison in their approach.

BillS

12-13-2011, 10:50 AM

He didn't get the name Donnie Do Nothing from me... I believe that came from a local media source.

I thought he got it from Peck and DougAdams. :-o

RWB

12-13-2011, 10:56 AM

I thought he got it from Peck

Yes I think that term was first coined by Peck around 98-99 on the Star forum.

PacerGuy

12-13-2011, 07:07 PM

Looks like neither... :mad:

For the first time in quite a while I am really pissed @ the FO/TPTB!!!
IF reports of the OJ/Rush are true, only now to be followed up by missing out on JCraw, WTF is Larry (& Pritchard) doing?
Mackey has been stead fast to his claim that Bird lost Mayo because of Ruch, yet we had cap$ & a roster spot, so to waiste all that time, TWICE, only to **** it up BOTH TIMES over Rush is stupid! He may want to make Rush go, but he has seemingly only compounded the fact that Rush *his draft pick) is not in this teams future by trying so hard to move him, he has missed out on a player he obviously likes & it has cost us in our rebuild effort TWICE!!! Rush may be a dope smoking twitter embarassment, but what is Larry for ****ing up the same trade, TWICE?

-Am I the only one who does not get this?
-Am I the only one that sees Larry is making the Rush situation worse?

This is not even about Mayo, JCraw on any one player, it is about what & why the FO is blowing opportunities when there is ample room under the cap. We have been talking for 3 yrs about having "assets", yet we just had an opportunity to land a lottery-talent for a throw in 2nd rd. guy, & we threw up on ourselves - for the second time!!!

PD'ers, please explain to me why we should NOT all be pissed by this.

BillS

12-13-2011, 07:17 PM

Looks like neither... :mad:

:jawdrop:

First time "what have you done for us lately" meant "in the last 12-24 hours".

vnzla81

12-13-2011, 07:24 PM

I'm mad a them for getting another stop gap player but I'm no really mad a them for not getting Mayo or Crawford, one thing I can agree is that there was no need to try to push Brandon Rush up Memphis a** and I do think he is missing on Crawford for trying to low ball him.

PacerGuy

12-13-2011, 07:37 PM

First time "what have you done for us lately" meant "in the last 12-24 hours".

The Mayo talk is +/- 9 months & 2 blown opportunities ago, far more then a 12-24 hr. discusion. We have been hearing about adding another scorer since before the FA period started. Now we are putting out the word that we are no longer buyers in FA & are concentrating on the season.
Starting the season with FAR less then what we could have/ should have had!