McWin22 wrote:Affordable Care Act.. Only affordable to those that don't have to pay for it.

Actually, we have ALL BEEN PAYING THESE COSTS.The fact is, that hospitals and MDs are not allowed to turn injured ppl down. First, docs have their oaths. Secondly, there are the laws.

Now, that means that we already pay these costs. We have seen it in massive health care costs that kept growing and growing. That was designed to cover all those that were unable to pay. In addition, it covered the bill collectors, lawyers, the lawsuits, and bankruptcy that added DOUBLE to the costs. Yes, once we add all that in, it simply jacks things up.

Now, we still need to make other changes, ESP. ON NEGOTIATED supplies and services. The neo-cons/tea* have fought to prevent the gov from negotiating on supplies. Worst, they encourage getting it from nations like CHina and Russia, instead of our own local areas. Yet, if Medicare, Medicaid, etc are able to fully negotiate, they could cut their prices IN HALF.

In addition, Obama had it right when he spoke of the huge costs associated with billing systems. We need exactly one form for dealing with insurances. Basically, it should be so that doc's office can enter in the numbers, submit immediately, and have it done, right at the office. IOW, no waiting for bills to float around, etc. The costs on this is ENORMOUS. Yet, the neo-cons/tea* are blocking that.

Then we have to change our lawsuits. It is crazy all of the lawsuits that occur. In this case, most of the blocking is from the dems.

Finally, we desperately need a DB that shows who licensed medical ppl are. That way if somebody loses their license in one state, they can not go elsewhere and get it back. And yes, plenty of docs and nurses do this. I am not sure who is blocking this one though.

Mostly makes sense but the ACA does nothing to stop the cost of the uninsured to the consumers that pay. The uninsured that now can afford a policy have deductibles they can not afford. And mostly their policy premiums are subsidized by the tax payer and the policy holders that have seen their policies increase to cover the uninsured so really no savings to those that have been covering the cost of the uninsured all along and in most cases increases. The government adding additional taxes to medical devices only increase the cost to tax payers and policy holders. So again more costs associated to covering the uninsured. And look at the numbers the government said they have signed up 7 plus million and during the selling of the legislation they said there were 30 to 50 million uninsured so pretty poor response if you're talking about not having to still cover the uninsured. And of the 7 plus million that are reported to have signed up how many of them were already insured but only had to sign up because their previous policy was terminated? So like I sad before the only people that will benefit financially from this legislation are the ones that haven't paid for insurance and do not have to pay for insurance now. All the rest of us that have been paying all along not only have to pay more in taxes we also have to pay more in premiums.

McWin22 wrote:Affordable Care Act.. Only affordable to those that don't have to pay for it.

Actually, we have ALL BEEN PAYING THESE COSTS.The fact is, that hospitals and MDs are not allowed to turn injured ppl down. First, docs have their oaths. Secondly, there are the laws.

Now, that means that we already pay these costs. We have seen it in massive health care costs that kept growing and growing. That was designed to cover all those that were unable to pay. In addition, it covered the bill collectors, lawyers, the lawsuits, and bankruptcy that added DOUBLE to the costs. Yes, once we add all that in, it simply jacks things up.

Now, we still need to make other changes, ESP. ON NEGOTIATED supplies and services. The neo-cons/tea* have fought to prevent the gov from negotiating on supplies. Worst, they encourage getting it from nations like CHina and Russia, instead of our own local areas. Yet, if Medicare, Medicaid, etc are able to fully negotiate, they could cut their prices IN HALF.

In addition, Obama had it right when he spoke of the huge costs associated with billing systems. We need exactly one form for dealing with insurances. Basically, it should be so that doc's office can enter in the numbers, submit immediately, and have it done, right at the office. IOW, no waiting for bills to float around, etc. The costs on this is ENORMOUS. Yet, the neo-cons/tea* are blocking that.

Then we have to change our lawsuits. It is crazy all of the lawsuits that occur. In this case, most of the blocking is from the dems.

Finally, we desperately need a DB that shows who licensed medical ppl are. That way if somebody loses their license in one state, they can not go elsewhere and get it back. And yes, plenty of docs and nurses do this. I am not sure who is blocking this one though.

Mostly makes sense but the ACA does nothing to stop the cost of the uninsured to the consumers that pay. The uninsured that now can afford a policy have deductibles they can not afford. And mostly their policy premiums are subsidized by the tax payer and the policy holders that have seen their policies increase to cover the uninsured so really no savings to those that have been covering the cost of the uninsured all along and in most cases increases. The government adding additional taxes to medical devices only increase the cost to tax payers and policy holders. So again more costs associated to covering the uninsured. And look at the numbers the government said they have signed up 7 plus million and during the selling of the legislation they said there were 30 to 50 million uninsured so pretty poor response if you're talking about not having to still cover the uninsured. And of the 7 plus million that are reported to have signed up how many of them were already insured but only had to sign up because their previous policy was terminated? So like I sad before the only people that will benefit financially from this legislation are the ones that haven't paid for insurance and do not have to pay for insurance now. All the rest of us that have been paying all along not only have to pay more in taxes we also have to pay more in premiums.

Yeah, basically, ACA seems horribly complicated. I have no issue with requiring ppl to pay for insurance if they can afford it, THOUGH they should have an out. For example, some of my friends are worth 100's of millions. They will tell you that they buy insurance (they are older) since it is much cheaper. BUT, they still want the option to opt out of it. Considering that they have the means and ability to pay their medical bills, I think that they SHOULD have an out.

For the average joe, we do not have the means for paying 100% for say a transplant and for others, even a complex broken leg that will require surgery and pins is well beyond the average person. So, it does make sense to have ppl be covered.

BUT, it would be better to have the taxes on this be straight forward. In fact, our entire tax code is out of whack. All during the 00's, we had loads of cuts written for ppl and corps. The complexity in this is just insane. And while I have not read the ACA (has anybody?), it is obvious that it is just as insane.

BTW, as for paying more in premiums, that is today. If all goes well, in the next year or so, those premiums will either stop rising, or even go down. The reason that they are going up is to cover the uncertainty. BUT, if these companies have massive profits (and very likely, most will), then if they do not drop their premiums, stuff WILL happen.

“... 1% of America funds almost 99% of the cost of political campaigns in America. Is it therefore any surprise that the government is responsive first to the needs of that 1%, and not to the 99%?" -Lawrence Lessig

McWin22 wrote:Affordable Care Act.. Only affordable to those that don't have to pay for it.

Actually, we have ALL BEEN PAYING THESE COSTS.The fact is, that hospitals and MDs are not allowed to turn injured ppl down. First, docs have their oaths. Secondly, there are the laws.

Now, that means that we already pay these costs. We have seen it in massive health care costs that kept growing and growing. That was designed to cover all those that were unable to pay. In addition, it covered the bill collectors, lawyers, the lawsuits, and bankruptcy that added DOUBLE to the costs. Yes, once we add all that in, it simply jacks things up.

Now, we still need to make other changes, ESP. ON NEGOTIATED supplies and services. The neo-cons/tea* have fought to prevent the gov from negotiating on supplies. Worst, they encourage getting it from nations like CHina and Russia, instead of our own local areas. Yet, if Medicare, Medicaid, etc are able to fully negotiate, they could cut their prices IN HALF.

In addition, Obama had it right when he spoke of the huge costs associated with billing systems. We need exactly one form for dealing with insurances. Basically, it should be so that doc's office can enter in the numbers, submit immediately, and have it done, right at the office. IOW, no waiting for bills to float around, etc. The costs on this is ENORMOUS. Yet, the neo-cons/tea* are blocking that.

Then we have to change our lawsuits. It is crazy all of the lawsuits that occur. In this case, most of the blocking is from the dems.

Finally, we desperately need a DB that shows who licensed medical ppl are. That way if somebody loses their license in one state, they can not go elsewhere and get it back. And yes, plenty of docs and nurses do this. I am not sure who is blocking this one though.

Mostly makes sense but the ACA does nothing to stop the cost of the uninsured to the consumers that pay. The uninsured that now can afford a policy have deductibles they can not afford. And mostly their policy premiums are subsidized by the tax payer and the policy holders that have seen their policies increase to cover the uninsured so really no savings to those that have been covering the cost of the uninsured all along and in most cases increases. The government adding additional taxes to medical devices only increase the cost to tax payers and policy holders. So again more costs associated to covering the uninsured. And look at the numbers the government said they have signed up 7 plus million and during the selling of the legislation they said there were 30 to 50 million uninsured so pretty poor response if you're talking about not having to still cover the uninsured. And of the 7 plus million that are reported to have signed up how many of them were already insured but only had to sign up because their previous policy was terminated? So like I sad before the only people that will benefit financially from this legislation are the ones that haven't paid for insurance and do not have to pay for insurance now. All the rest of us that have been paying all along not only have to pay more in taxes we also have to pay more in premiums.

Yeah, basically, ACA seems horribly complicated. I have no issue with requiring ppl to pay for insurance if they can afford it, THOUGH they should have an out. For example, some of my friends are worth 100's of millions. They will tell you that they buy insurance (they are older) since it is much cheaper. BUT, they still want the option to opt out of it. Considering that they have the means and ability to pay their medical bills, I think that they SHOULD have an out.

For the average joe, we do not have the means for paying 100% for say a transplant and for others, even a complex broken leg that will require surgery and pins is well beyond the average person. So, it does make sense to have ppl be covered.

BUT, it would be better to have the taxes on this be straight forward. In fact, our entire tax code is out of whack. All during the 00's, we had loads of cuts written for ppl and corps. The complexity in this is just insane. And while I have not read the ACA (has anybody?), it is obvious that it is just as insane.

BTW, as for paying more in premiums, that is today. If all goes well, in the next year or so, those premiums will either stop rising, or even go down. The reason that they are going up is to cover the uncertainty. BUT, if these companies have massive profits (and very likely, most will), then if they do not drop their premiums, stuff WILL happen.

Insurance and other companies typically make about 9% return on investment (before inflation and personal income taxes). That is a long term average.

Opportunities for fraud occur at every level. From patients selling their prescriptions to people who aren't insured, to doctors padding their bills, to insurance companies who find illegitimate ways to avoid paying claims. It happens at all levels. And the only reason it is so low is that we spend the money to try to catch the crooks. If we didn't, medical costs would be higher.

I recommend that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast should be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast. --- Viktor Frankl