Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

I'm getting really angry reading all the replies in this thread, people are looking at the PVE and PVP content of today and says how much this will ruin their class. While it's pretty darn obvious that with this Blizzard will balance around this and therefor not make any encounter where you have to spam dispel everyone, in PVP it will allow them to get rid if RNG dispell resistance talents due to healers not wanting to spam dispel themselves due to the high mana cost. This leads to you actually being able to dispell when you absolutely want to get rid of a debuff/buff instead of relying on RNG.

Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

Originally Posted by Offhand

I'm starting to get tired of the changes to simplify the game that aren't really simplifying anything. The list is growing:

- Removing defense as a stat. Then adding crit reduction talents into all tanking trees. Now you're all required to spend points for that talent to get around a boss mechanic. How about just make bosses incapable of dealing crits? That would allow people to not have to spend points on required talents to get around stupid mechanics. Removing defense is a poorly hidden avoidance nerf.

- Spirit for all healers. OK, that makes sense because we can change spirit to be active regen for all healers instead of stat that's only functioning out of combat and when not casting. Good idea making spirit work like mp5, except that's not what's happening. The solution? Meditation talents for all healers!!!! I'm starting to see a pattern here.

Blizzard published the Cataclysm talent trees? Please feel free to share. The most I've seen stated about the new mana regen is that it's likely they're going to get rid of the FSR and just go into "in combat" and "out of combat" mana regen states. If you're rebuilding the whole mana regeneration system from the ground up then you have the room to make it work right from the start. I would be surprised to see Blizzard going to meditation talents in the new system, but it can't be ruled out. You certainly don't know if it's the case, though.

Originally Posted by Offhand

- ArP being removed. The stat is too "difficult" apparently for the mind of the normal player. Not to mention the "normal" player will likely never reach the point where ArP vs non-ArP gemming matters but that's not the actual problem anyway (there's already other stats with moving caps such as hit for rogues and enhance shaman, Blizzard doesn't see a problem with this). The actual problem? ArP beneficial specs on average tend to perform better then non-ArP beneficial specs. Is this a problem because the stat is too good? No, not really, it may have more to do with the unacknowledged problem of ArP existing on aout 75% of melee dps gear. Hmmm, wonder why ArP specs do so well? Maybe because they have such a larger pool of gear to choose from, crazy idea I know.

Apparently you didn't get the message. ArP is a redundant stat that requires more math to resolve than AP. Both are stats that directly boost melee damage. They're just different mathematical formulas to get to the same end. In other words, ArP is a terrible design decision because it adds nothing to the game besides extra complexity. Complexity for its own sake is asinine and (to beat the horse) a TERRIBLE design decision. Just because you bothered to figure out ArP doesn't make the stat well thought out or worth keeping around.

Given two solutions to the same problem, Blizzard has chosen the elegant one and opted to get rid of the overly complex one. This isn't rocket science. See spell power vs. spell healing and spell damage for a perfect example of this.

Originally Posted by Offhand

Anyone else seeing this nonsense or am I alone here?

I'm seeing a lot of nonsense from people who are resistant to change. You see it every time a new expansion gets towards beta in WoW. Then everyone gets over it and moves on once the expansion comes out. Bottom line, Blizzard knows what they're doing with game design, the vast majority of the player base doesn't have a clue.

Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

I really hope they change their minds about the pally changes. One of the nice abilities that a we have and that little extra utility being taken away would really hurt the pve side of things for sure. However, I can see how this might be needed for pvp to encourage players to use the healing specs more.

Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

As long as they don´t overhaul the use of poisons/curses/diseases every class uses, these changes will suck.

e.g.: how "useful" is curing poisons for a druid if it costs a lot more mana than is doe sright now against a rogue that applies it with basically every swing? one if the reasons why priests are "among/at the top" in pvp for forever is their offensive dispell simply being better because it is always useful. just one example :>

Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

Originally Posted by str4jo

Stupid, stupid, stupid....

Druids need a dispell... WTF-, seriously do they need anything more? They lost nothing and gained an ability, this is just ridiculous, they will be beyond overpowered...
Shaman loosing poison and disease removal AND the totem, woah WOAH... what are they now, like the worst healer both pve and pvp wise?- and btw, ele and enhancement shaman will cease to exist in pvp, and so will retribution and protribution paladins...

Also, huge buff for DKs and rogues...

Yes because these changes will be going live exactly as they are and there will be no other changes to any of the effected classes that may balance this, nor any changes to the PvP landscape at all that may put these changes in context, and certainly no changes to encounter design to accommodate this.

"It turns out the only signature he needed was my fist! ... But with a pen in it ... that i was signing with."

Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

No one here approached dispel mechanics with the idea that PvP takes precedence over PvE, so there's little reason to object in that regard. The changes to class systems in Cataclysm we've announced thus far are being proposed to make the game better, both in terms of PvP and PvE. Mind you, we have a host of changes planned for every class we plan to share in the future. Before providing overviews of our goals for each class though, we wanted to give you a look at some changes to more broad systems.

While the feedback is welcomed, I'd caution players to consider this information with an open mind, rather than directly translating the proposed changes into the class systems of Wrath of the Lich King.

Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

FreakingAWESOME!!!

as resto Druid in arena, I love this!!

Congratulations on graduating to expert level trolling, I would stick around but I'm busy getting gay married in 13 states and performing roadside abortions while passing bills that take away people's guns while i sip superior european wine and cheese i bought with european style socialist money, arrivaderci!

Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

Sounds interesting. We'll see how it works out.

I'm more sceptical about actually announcing these changes before beta is out, now we'll see endless threads about "omfg now we're useless" from 4 classes because
none of us knows how this will work out at level 85, with new abilities, higher health, higher mana costs and whatnot.

Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

Originally Posted by Alcotraz

[blizzquote="Zarhym;http://blue.mmo-champion.com/27/24038610691-upcoming-cataclysm-dispel-mechanics.html]In Cataclysm we are raising the mana costs, making it possible to waste mana by casting a dispel when there is nothing to dispel[/blizzquote"] When is the retardation ever going to end? They basically want healers to waste Dispels? Wonderful!

No, they want healers to think about what they cast next - strategize more. How the game currently works, I fully agree with the Blizzard staff - something h&#225;d to be changed.

Though with these changes, some of the stuff that makes us spam Dispels need to get adressed as well. With Rogue Poisons as number one priority, the strength of HoTs a good second.

Re: Upcoming Cataclysm Dispel Mechanics

Originally Posted by MasterHamster

Sounds interesting. We'll see how it works out.

I'm more sceptical about actually announcing these changes before beta is out, now we'll see endless threads about "omfg now we're useless" from 4 classes because
none of us knows how this will work out at level 85, with new abilities, higher health, higher mana costs and whatnot.

I agree that we need to see talent changes/new spells, but no, we don't need to wait until we're actually level 85 to make an educated guess.

It's like back at the end of BC and people were saying we couldn't know if burst was going to be bad at the beginning of WoTLK until we get to level 80. Anyone that could put 1 and 1 together after seeing the talents/new spells knew the burst was going to be bad.