Spellman is the all women's college at Atlanta Univerity Center. Morehouse is the men's college where MLK and Herman Cain went.

Whatever they are teaching young black women at Spellman, they all graduate as confident and a belief they are entitled royalty in their own eyes and are deferred to by Atlanta's black community who accept that estimation of the status of a Spellman Woman.

I'd like to see Cosby put into context. What were other entertainment industry men doing back then (and now)? Cosby was in league with Hugh Hefner. I want to know about what powerful men did to young, beautiful women. We didn't hear the stories at the time because before the late 1980s, there wasn't a recognition that there was such a thing as date rape. These women seemed to have wanted access to power and to have gone places alone with the men. This used to be brushed off as "he said/she said."

"It’s a difficult time for him. But it ain’t the end of the world. If Hillary can run for president — she went through all that rigmarole. People forget easily."

People forget what they're allowed to forget. Sexual assault and attempted rape accusations against Pres. Clinton are down the memory hole. A racist place name on a rock on a ranch a Republican Pres. nominee hopeful's family leased, or the method of transport for a family dog on a vacation one distant summer past--those things won't be forgotten, your Media will not allow it.Many of these allegations against Mr. Cosby weren't hidden before now, but they were unknown to the public (or if you prefer, "forgotten"). The interesting dynamic at play can be understood by asking "why now," and the answer to that, I think, will show you whether or not people will be allowed to forget.

It seems that Cosby truly was a serial rapist who got away with it for years. So did Jimmy Saville. Unlike Saville, Cosby was a man of genuine merit and talent. Perhaps in the long run-- and by that I mean another two or three generations--some balance will be restored to his reputation. Charley Chaplain was no angel, and his reputation has been refurbished......It does seem that the entertainment industry does offer its moguls and talents more opportunities than, say, the steel industry. And lots of these moguls and talents besides Cosby got away with it.

I'm not the first to say it, but Bill Clinton certainly got a pass when women started coming out of the woodwork complaining of rape and harassment. The Cosby lookout at NBC sounds remarkably like the Arkansas Troopers who facilitated Clinton's exploits.

Ann's question is particularly relevant. What did powerful men get away with in that era? It would seem a lot.

Ann Althouse said...I'd like to see Cosby put into context. What were other entertainment industry men doing back then (and now)?

That's fair, but do you expect to see it? I can guess that if I put that question up in a comment section on, say, Slate, I'd be quickly dismissed as a rape apologist insinuating that it wasn't a big deal or that the women were asking for it. Asking for context is dangerous when the default discussion parameters allow only absolutes (or only absolutes in one direction).

Some nuance.These women probably thought that they were going to have an amazing sexual experience just like the amazing musical or comedy performance of these stars. And instead they were treated like knotholes or coyotes.

That's why they say they were raped even though they volunteered to go to the star's bedroom late at night, have a drink and be alone with him etc. all of which more than suggests consent. But not consent to be a nothing. They thought they would be dancing in the dark with a star.

Cosby will be remembered for his betrayal of us, and not much else,...

That's crap. First of all, these are allegations, are they not? He's not been convicted of a single thing.

Second, long before the show ever aired, I was raised on Cosby's LP's and Fat Albert cartoons. Those two things, along with the pain he obviously felt at the death of his son, are what I'll remember, no matter what happens.

Not just a drink, but take unlabeled pills casually while in someone's hotel room (or whatever). I mean, seriously? You cannot convince me that a normal 19 year old, in showbiz, in the 70's, didn't know to be suspicious of that.

Not that it make Cosby a good guy, because it's becoming increasingly clear that he probably wasn't, at least on this subject. But come on, ladies. I find it very hard to believe you didn't have any suspicions about what was going on.

The one that really jumped out at me is the lady who was a playboy bunny and says cosby grabbed her and kissed her. She pushed him away, went and found her boyfriend and got the hell out of dodge. And I think she even said, it's because she didn't want anything from him.

So what I'm curious about - what role did those huge payments he made to those women had to do with their silence? I mean - is there a magic number he hit upon to keep them quiet? Or am I about to get bombed for even suggesting that money could buy their silence? And when did the payments stop?

When the messenger becomes flawed, do we repudiate the message? Do we repudiate the good works of the messenger?

The history is mixed, and not just in the entertainment industry. From Fatty Arbuckle to Roman Polanski to Michael Jackson and now Cosby. If Cosby had had anal sex with a drunken (ergo, drugged) 13 year old, would Hollywood be OK with it?

Do we abandon Livestrong once we learn Armstrong was a cheater?

Must we prosecute and persecute Cosby in the press because he will never be convicted of any of these charges? Must we consider him guilty for the same reason?

Read and interesting account of Whoopi and Rosie fighting about whether they should be talking about Cosby at all. I'll wager that Cosby gets the OJ treatment by African Americans. It'll be the white feminists that will want him pilloried.

I know that lefties think the greatest feat of the mind is to catch another in "hypocrisy." But it isn't. It is commonplace for humans to behave in a way that is different from what they say, or even think, is right.

So Cosby might be a bad messenger, but the question is whether or not his message was a good one. I doubt you are up to answer that.

Aku Kadogo is extremely accomplished and has done many amazing things. Never heard of her before today. I think it's real nice to have her coming back to America after living in Australia since 1978.

Her African American Australian daughter has a Caucasian father.

Typically, most successful African American men and women will marry a Caucasian , or have sex with them. Similar to the elderly rich white man taking on a younger "trophy wife", or having an expensive mistress or prostitute on the side.

Bill Cosby did not have enough personal charisma or sexual prowess to entice his alleged victims so he resorted to drugs an intimidation or promises of influential help. The women who enjoyed consensual sex with him are unfortunately not coming forward to defend him.

"So Cosby might be a bad messenger, but the question is whether or not his message was a good one. I doubt you are up to answer that."

But blacks are - check it out:

"In 2001, a researcher sent out black and white job applicants in Milwaukee, randomly assigning them a criminal record. The researcher concluded that a white man with a criminal record had about the same chance of getting a job as a black man without one. Three years later, researchers produced the same results in New York under more-rigorous conditions."

- Ta-Nehisi Coates

"Pull up your pants" will NOT fix that.

Do I have to go down the whole silly list of Cosby ideas before you get the point?

Blacks rejected Cosby's later ideas for the same reason they abandoned Booker T. Washington's:

THEY DON"T WORK.

White people may think they sound great, but they always leave out one little problem, in assessing The Cosby Way's effectiveness:

White people - who even Cosby charges with being racist - aren't expected to change their behavior at all,...

Keep telling yourself that showing the crack in your ass is a good business decision. And good for black kids. Go right ahead. Tell them they won't get a job no matter what because of slavery. And to keep the dress code they like. Go right ahead.

Putting on a Savile Row suit also won't help a kid get a job if he can't make a subject or verb agree or can't do simple math or show up on time. These very simple rules hold true for every race.

If you believe what you write then you and your race are fucked. Permanently fucked.

Ann has a point though. Context. It was the time of sex and drugs and rock and roll. Everybody was doing it and I still don't see what the big deal is. Hello, 70s anyone? Some of these women went back for more by their own accounts.

As far as paying them off, I am more inclined to think he did not want his wife to know of his extracurricular activities rather than trying to hide rape-rape, or microagression, or macro, or whatever.

I think that our hostess, as usual, is pretty much on target. Not to make excuses for the man, but he was young, successful, powerful and attractive to women. What is puzzling to me is why he needed to drug the women (assuming for the moment that any of it is true).

If Wilt Chamberlain can have had sex with 20,000 women, Cosby surely could have had some percentage of that and still have had his share and a little of the action of the next 20 guys. Not to mention the scores of a nobody like Winston Bennett. Certainly, Mick Jagger has had so many women that the friction alone should have whittled the thing down to a nub by now.

Everyone knows that you can get just about any girl you want if you can make her laugh. He was at the top of his game. I can see it now:

Cos: What is 12 inches long and white

Pretty young adoring white girl: Hmmmm....I dunno, what?

Cos: Nothing! Take a look at this...

ba-boom!! I'm here all week, folks, two shows a night.

It was only later, as an older man, that Cosby was Dr. Huxtable, father figure. That juxtaposition of his later image with his alleged conduct 30 years earlier while hangin' with the Hef is causing the disconnect. Not to mention that he spoke truth to the brothers.

Krumhorn said..."Not to make excuses for the man, but he was young, successful, powerful and attractive to women. What is puzzling to me is why he needed to drug the women (assuming for the moment that any of it is true)."

It's fairly clear that he reserved the drugs for the women who did not find him attractive.

"That's fair, but do you expect to see it? I can guess that if I put that question up in a comment section on, say, Slate, I'd be quickly dismissed as a rape apologist insinuating that it wasn't a big deal or that the women were asking for it. Asking for context is dangerous when the default discussion parameters allow only absolutes (or only absolutes in one direction)."

You are misunderstanding my perspective. I am assuming there are 100 famous men who are scared to death that something like this will wreck them too.

Crack: "In 2001, a researcher sent out black and white job applicants in Milwaukee, randomly assigning them a criminal record. The researcher concluded that a white man with a criminal record had about the same chance of getting a job as a black man without one. Three years later, researchers produced the same results in New York under more-rigorous conditions."

- Ta-Nehisi Coates

Love it when Crack starts quoting Coates with his anonymous 'researcher' and 'researchers' and the results of mysterious uncited 'studies'...You'd think if Coates put so much stock in these 'studies' and the researchers were so clear-cut authoritative/reputable sources he would have named names. As it is, sounds like Coates just expects his worshipful followers to uncritically read his every word as gospel.

"I am assuming there are 100 famous men who are scared to death that something like this will wreck them too."

i think we will see a rise in accusations of sexual misconduct by the famous. Lots of women watching the reverential attention Cosby's accusers are receiving. Lots of unhappy women wanting attention. Fine tuning their memories.

Ann Althouse said...I am assuming there are 100 famous men who are scared to death that something like this will wreck them too.

Yes ma'am, I'm sure there are more than 100, but that takes me back to my original question--assuming what Cosby is alleged to have done was not extremely rare, you'd think some of those 100s would have been brought forward into the harsh Media glare by now. But accusations and allegations wreck some people and not others. Cosby's wrecked, Bill Clinton's still a star. Herman Cain's wrecked, Jeffrey Toobin's not. Dov Charney's wrecked, David Letterman's not. Gary Hart was wrecked with a quickness, John Edwards was wrecked only after a while. Obviously these are all different cases, but anyone who has a checkered past and might get on the Media's bad side is probably more nervous than they were a few years (or months) ago. My perspective, though, is that as long as the Media is on your side, you can probably sleep easy (so to speak).

Hillary aided that rigamarole and abetted that rigamarole and covered up for that rigamarole and defamed others over that rigamarole during all that rigamarole, to keep herself and her husband in power.

Her lust to power is insatiable.

Hillary should be shunned by anyone who abhors her monomaniacal lust for power, to the exclusion of all ethics, decency, morality and logic.