Isn't this all based on the assumption that Akhenaten and Nefertiti were married right as Akhenaten took the throne?
Isn't it possible that they married when Akhenaten was still a prince?

I was looking at the boundary stelas (In Reeves' book) and in year 5 Akhenaten and Nefertiti are shown with their two eldest daughters (Meritaten and Meketaten). The girls are shaking sistra and look like they are past the stage of being toddlers. But it's hard to say how old the children were at this point. But would a 3 and a 2 year old really be involved in these ceremonies? Would they be walking along with the parents and shaking a sistrum?
LOL All of the 2 and 3 year olds I know would not be capable of performing such ceremonies. They would be all over the place, distracting people and making a mess

Ankhesenpaaten was not shown in year 5. But was that because she wasn't born yet, or because she was too small to participate in any ceremonies?

The ages given above are interesting and could be correct, but how would we know? I could see them being older, and I could also see arguments to say they might be younger.

Joined:Mon May 09, 2005 9:22 amPosts:574Location: The palace of Tutness!

Selket wrote:

Ankhenaton used his children to boost his image. How can you hate a family man? And even babies can shake rattles so even though they might be fussing,who is going to discipline a royal toddler?

Whoa, wait a second!!! ...Who said anyone hated Akhenaten for being a family man?! ...Though, nowadays, they (The media) tend to use him as an evil heretic pharaoh, without realizing that he was non-violent and believed all humans were equal under Aten. Like in SOME nasty books, which I will not mention here--it's already been ranted on in the coffee lounge--they use him as an evil ghost or something like that. And he's widely misunderstood because of it, sadly. I'd like to see the positive image of him, not the nasty kind...

...He does seem like an egotistical person. I mean every shrine in his city had a picture or statue of him and his family.

LOL

You've just described about every pharaoh who ever ruled in ancient Egypt. As far as that goes, Ramesses II put Akhenaten to shame--no pharaoh was better at self-promotion than Ramesses II. Amunhotep III was certainly no amateur at it, either.

But you're right, of course. To accomplish what he did and to believe of himself as he did, Akhenaten had to have been something of a megalomaniac. It's also quite certain that he was a tyrant, to close vast temple complexes, shut away the rest of his own nation, and decimate his own people's economy. This is why the royals and courtiers who followed Akhenaten referred to him as "the traitor."

And you know what, in my opinion it in no way diminishes how fascinating and distinctive Akhenaten was. From him we have one of the most intriguing and mysterious periods in ancient Egypt. History wouldn't have been the same without him.

Oh, yes. Give the point to kmt_sesh! Every pharaoh liked to appear all of his temples and other creations and the biggest in this was of course Rameses II. He stole other's statues and renamed them.

Why do you think Akhenaten was more egotistical then the other pharaohs? I mean, he said he is the son of Aten, but the others said they're the sons of Ra. What's the difference?

And he was a family man, too, but not as big as Rameses II. I mean Rameses had REALLY more children than him - but, as you can see in steles and paintings, Akhenaten liked to appear with his children - kissing them, playing with them. And he also liked to appear with his wife, Nefertiti.

Anyway, he is my favourite pharaoh - because of his appearance, his changes, his rule - he was brave, strange, and... well, beautiful So I mean I'm a bit biassed against him, lol

Thank you, Merytre-Hatshepsut! A Russian artist drew it, and it's Akhenaten, of course! I choose this because it's totally how I imagined him in real life. Let's try http://home.perm.ru/potapov I downloaded it from there! Beautiful artworks

Why do you think Akhenaten was more egotistical then the other pharaohs? I mean, he said he is the son of Aten, but the others said they're the sons of Ra. What's the difference?

You're right about the "son of Re." That title goes back to Djedefre of Dynasty 4, 1200 years before Akhenaten ascended to the throne. And Akhenaten wasn't even the first Aten worshiper; his father, Amunhotep III, made it a sort of personal religion and was probably responsible, if unintentionally, for the absolute obsession Akhenaten developed for this hitherto minor deity.

But Akhenaten had the sheer force of will to turn Atenism into the state religion and at the same time abandon and bury so many of the important gods and goddesses that the Egyptians had been worshiping for thousands of years. That alone bears out the kind of robust and perhaps even neurotic ego he possessed.

And it wasn't so simple a matter as mere religious worship. In closing down many important temple complexes and sealing himself and his government off in the new capital he created at Amarna, Akhenaten inflicted unquestionable and serious economic damage on his country and allowed the vassals and foreign concerns of Egypt to break away from Pharaoh's grip. We have cuneiform letters from that time written by Caananite rulers begging Akhenaten to intervene in disturbances taking place in ancient Palastine, and by all accounts Akhenaten seemed to dismiss and ignore them completely.

Akhenanten was no saint. He certainly wasn't the greatest pharaoh ancient Egypt had. But none of that takes away from the fact that this man and his reign constitute one of the most fascinating and intriguing periods of ancient Egypt.

Joined:Mon May 09, 2005 9:22 amPosts:574Location: The palace of Tutness!

kmt_sesh wrote:

Akhenanten was no saint. He certainly wasn't the greatest pharaoh ancient Egypt had. But none of that takes away from the fact that this man and his reign constitute one of the most fascinating and intriguing periods of ancient Egypt.

...Well....Him and Tut, for me...would actually be tied for 1st on my list of favorite Pharaohs!!

If Akhenaten was never made pharaoh--or never even existed--then, true, history would be pretty boring. And Tut wouldn't be here, and no famous boy-king...can you even imagine history without them? It almost makes me shudder....I can never even THINK it, let alone imagine it. I bet history would be A LOT different today if not for the impact of Akhenaten and his introduction to monotheism.

No, quite frankly, I can't. Nor can anyone interested in ancient Egypt, I wager. I always get a kick out of how famous Tutankhamun is today, considering how minor a ruler he was. It's likely Tut was never much more than a puppet to powerful and ambitious men like Ay and Horemheb. Later rulers who compiled kings lists, namely Seti I and his son Ramesses II, would be utterly shocked to find how well known Akhenaten and his probable son Tut are today. After all, they went to lengths to erase all evidence of what we call the Amarna Period, and Akhenaten and Tutankhamun are two names you won't find on their kings list because of the stain on their nation (as they saw it) that Akhenaten left. I'm pretty certain even Ay is on neither list, as tied into the reign of Akhenaten as he had been.

So it's no surprise when I ask people on my tours at the Field who the most famous ancient Egyptian king is and they call out in unison: "Tut!" But it is cause for a chuckle or two for those of us who understand what was happening then and later in the Two Lands.

Joined:Mon May 09, 2005 9:22 amPosts:574Location: The palace of Tutness!

kmt_sesh wrote:

I always get a kick out of how famous Tutankhamun is today, considering how minor a ruler he was. It's likely Tut was never much more than a puppet to powerful and ambitious men like Ay and Horemheb. Later rulers who compiled kings lists, namely Seti I and his son Ramesses II, would be utterly shocked to find how well known Akhenaten and his probable son Tut are today. After all, they went to lengths to erase all evidence of what we call the Amarna Period, and Akhenaten and Tutankhamun are two names you won't find on their kings list...

So it's no surprise when I ask people on my tours at the Field who the most famous ancient Egyptian king is and they call out in unison: "Tut!" But it is cause for a chuckle or two for those of us who understand what was happening then and later in the Two Lands.

Yay, Kmt!!

Well, naturally, the first thing people think of when it comes to Egypt would most likely be Tut, or at least the first thing that comes to mind when you ask about a pharaoh--as you did, kmt--and I'm curious to see that Akhenaten's fame is increasing, and he could easily catch up to his son's rank of fame in no time, if he hasn't already!!

And I agree--Ramses II and Seti I would be rolling in thier graves, that is, if they weren't in a glass case in the Cairo museum. (I know Ramses II is there...Seti I is there also, am I correct? I'm REALLY afraid to be wrong and look like a complete idiot on here... ).

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