This is one of the best explanations I heard of this Thanks. I am definitely going to try incorporate this into my throwing motion. I am also at 300 ft and I think this will help get to the 350's which would make me supper happy. Being 51 it's tough to get these old hips swinging that fast but I think with a little practice it may help me get some more distance.

OK so I went out this weekend and gave this a try. At first I was having grip lock and everything went right. I played a round and went home frustrated. Being bull headed and not one to give up I went back to the course to try it again. This time I had a few really good throws and for the first time felt the disc rip from my fingers. I am not going to kid myself and I know I will not be a 400+ thrower but if I can reach a respectable 350 to 375 I will be happy. Now I need to figure out how to get the toe to heel pivot motion. I do it on occasion but seems I am more on the toe than the ball of my heel when I pivot. Not sure how to get that or will that just come with practice?

I'm glad to hear people are still getting something from this thread. I think most of the lessons earlier in this thread can work quickly to get somebody over the 300' barrier with today's technology discs, and many casual players will be happy with that progress (for a little while, anyways). Getting over 400' requires channeling even more strength and energy into your throw while being even more fluid in your motions, which isn't easy and is where athletic coordination comes in very handy. A lot of us aren't used to producing the needed backhand hip turn driven by the legs, it is still uncoordinated in many ways even for somebody who can throw 350' without trouble. If I ever figure out an easy exercise to accomplish that, then I'll surely post it here at DGR.

JHern: I bow down to your elbow/cast visualization.. I'm Deaf myself and all these youtube videos, explaining how a person should throw their discs never comes with subtitles so, i've been working on my drives everyday ( i got sore knees/and lower back so i'll be taking a break in a while)I started 9 months ago, I've been throwing RHBH and i've been getting compliments how powerful my throws are and how strong it is. I've been throwing 375 max and i've been trying to figure why the pro's gets up to 500.. then your PERFECT visual got me thinking, heck i'll try it the next morning.. I'm driving 450-475 with this new move.. my course has a basket at 425 so about 20-50 ft past it.. So, i wanted to say thank you, your advice was what i needed! Everybody heed his advice! While doing that swing, grip it hard.. with emphasis, it helps stablize the disc better.. and releasing it will become more straighter and where you want it.. I've heard people saying that practicing the "hammer" motion with some glove would help you understand how it's supposed to feel ripping.

question for jhern, i have this feeling i'm still half hitting the disc at 475, is that possible? because i still havent had the disc "RIP" out of my hand.. theres still a point where i open my hand to let it go and it's still going that far? so am i half hitting it? how do i get it to the fullest maximum or is it at that potential already? I'm just wondering bc the innova's scale say let say for example a wraith goes up to 400-415 feet, and i drove it farther to 445-ish. Any way i can get it to go farther? one of the course nearby has 900 ft so would be nice if i could par with three instead of bogeying or double bogeying it..

JHern wrote:I'm glad to hear people are still getting something from this thread. I think most of the lessons earlier in this thread can work quickly to get somebody over the 300' barrier with today's technology discs, and many casual players will be happy with that progress (for a little while, anyways). Getting over 400' requires channeling even more strength and energy into your throw while being even more fluid in your motions, which isn't easy and is where athletic coordination comes in very handy. A lot of us aren't used to producing the needed backhand hip turn driven by the legs, it is still uncoordinated in many ways even for somebody who can throw 350' without trouble. If I ever figure out an easy exercise to accomplish that, then I'll surely post it here at DGR.

I really noticed this (hip turn driven by the legs) when i was practicing right pec and reachback yesterday. When i moved to the 1-step i could really see that i'm going to have to put in a lot of work here. Are there any benchmarks with a putter/midrange for a 1 step (half hitting & full hitting and whether they're with a reach back or from the right pec) to help get an idea of where i should be with these?

myroomisajunkyard: Half hitting is a possibility. Maybe even a probability. There are way longer discs than Wraiths so changing discs alone would bump up your distance and congratulations on the great rips and inprovement!

It's impossible to say for sure what you could improve without seeing a video. For disc pivot analysis it would need to be shot with a high seed camera taking at least 60 preferably over 200 pictures per second. From and angle that allows us to see where exactly the thumb slides off of the disc.

As a theoretical possibility you might not be able to hold on to the disc for it to pivot long enough. If you look at the following video (see the other vids also on that channel and lcgm8 for more slo mo drive analysis embedded in EO2009, Tali Open 2009 and 2010) and you see how in the backhand throw Avery Jenkins has the disc rip out at around 4 o'clock and later in FH.

I don't recall the exact numbers Blake estimated the difference from 4 o'clock to 5 o'clock to be but it is a good jump in D.

niq: I don't have a handle on exact specifics because i consider myself to be a half hitter even though last fall i tried locked wrist throws and lost 50-100' off of my maximum D with fairway drivers and max D discs. 300' with long putters is still in half hitting domain and so is 330' probably 350' too with mids with full run ups. IIRC i get just over 200' with most successful stand still putter throws. Contrast that with hybrid putter/mids like Wedge going over 330' with a full run up on lucky rips. Crazy difference and still most likely half hitting. I don't know how Blake meant half hitting to be defined exactly or if he had such aspirations at all. Pivoting the disc is possibly only a part of the equation in the difference between a half vs a full hit.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

Thanks JR. I thought i read somewhere that the difference between a half hit and a full hit was the little palm ejection right before the rip (I have yet to experience what this feels like). I could be wrong though -- I've read through a lot of these threads over the course of the last 2 weeks so it's a lot of information to digest and retain. I feel like every time I re-read over some threads something else "clicks" though.

myroomisajunkyard wrote:...I've been throwing 375 max and i've been trying to figure why the pro's gets up to 500.. then your PERFECT visual got me thinking, heck i'll try it the next morning.. I'm driving 450-475 with this new move... my course has a basket at 425 so about 20-50 ft past it.. So, i wanted to say thank you, your advice was what i needed!

Awesome! You now throw farther than I do, if this is a level ground throw.

myroomisajunkyard wrote:...question for jhern, i have this feeling i'm still half hitting the disc at 475, is that possible? because i still havent had the disc "RIP" out of my hand.. theres still a point where i open my hand to let it go and it's still going that far?...

Maybe this is more of a grip issue. You should not be letting go of the disc...instead you should be pinching hard between your thumb and rip finger(s) (index and/or middle finger, dug deep under the rim, with a lot of thumb pressure on top). If the disc is seated back in your palm, you have a firm pinch under your thumb, then the disc has no choice but to pivot out of your hand as your arm reaches maximum extension. Maybe post a pic of the grip you're using, and your body position when you "let go" of the disc (and/or vid, but should mostly focus on grip for now).

What the pinch and pivot does is add more spin to the disc, which makes it fly more stable and controllable. It also adds more distance because the disc stays in its glide phase of flight for a longer time.

JR wrote:...you might not be able to hold on to the disc for it to pivot long enough....Blake estimated the difference from 4 o'clock to 5 o'clock to be but it is a good jump in D...

I agree that this might be a possibility, and is also central to the grip issue. If the disc is coming out early it may be a symptom of pulling through on a curve or arc-like path instead of on a straight line. The arm-cast exercise I posted a while back is meant to give you an idea for how it feels to gain leverage from your torso twist and channel it into your lower arm. But keep in mind that it still must be done while keeping the center of mass of the disc on as straight of a line as possible. Introducing curves or arc motions into the pull line of the disc center might be good for generating leverage, but it will simultaneously make gripping all the way through to 5'o-clock more difficult. It also introduces difficulties in aiming your rip, and in fact you might have grown used to releasing the disc instead of ripping it in order to try and overcome the aiming issues of pulling through on an arc.

Film from above, as in JR's video above, is always best for this diagnosis. Failing that, you can ask one of your friends to stand about 10' behind you as you throw, squatting down if they have to, so that the point-of-view is looking directly down the line of trajectory that the disc is going to travel down as it leaves your hand. This angle can also reveal any exaggerated side-to-side motion that might be easy to fix, and get you to 500'+ distance.

gripandripit wrote:i have been having problems with my drives I can throw my buzzz the same distance as all of my drivers about 300 in my case. why is that, and what can i do to get my drives to fly farther?

This thread is extremely helpful. Thank you. I have a question about "feeling" though.

When you properly execute a drive does it feel like a "One, Two Punch" with the hips (lower body) being the one and the release of the disc being two? I started to feel this quick cadence (boom, boom) that I haven't really felt before. My arm felt more like a whip and it made me realize I've been strong arming my drives for years.

JHern wrote:I'm glad to hear people are still getting something from this thread. I think most of the lessons earlier in this thread can work quickly to get somebody over the 300' barrier with today's technology discs, and many casual players will be happy with that progress (for a little while, anyways). Getting over 400' requires channeling even more strength and energy into your throw while being even more fluid in your motions, which isn't easy and is where athletic coordination comes in very handy. A lot of us aren't used to producing the needed backhand hip turn driven by the legs, it is still uncoordinated in many ways even for somebody who can throw 350' without trouble. If I ever figure out an easy exercise to accomplish that, then I'll surely post it here at DGR.

I really noticed this (hip turn driven by the legs) when i was practicing right pec and reachback yesterday. When i moved to the 1-step i could really see that i'm going to have to put in a lot of work here. Are there any benchmarks with a putter/midrange for a 1 step (half hitting & full hitting and whether they're with a reach back or from the right pec) to help get an idea of where i should be with these?

i've always wondered this myself. when i warm up before a round i'll grab my putters and mids and throw them from the right pec with no reach back. i'd say i can get close to 200 with my putters if i'm feeling it that day. i'll go pick them all up and throw back in the opposite direction the same way. go pick them all up and then give a full reach back and throw with no run up. from a stand still i'd say i can hit 270. after 2 rounds of throwing the putters and mids with just a reach back i'll throw a variety of discs with a full run up until i'm ready to go play. i about pooped myself today, the hole i toss at is marked 290 dead straight and i managed to toss an opto pure 15 feet long without a run up. slowly but surely it's all starting to come together. i think what has helped me the most recently is keeping my elbow slightly bent during the reach back and keeping it close to my body. it seems like i feel the hip turn, slight pause, and then the chop more when my arm is closer to my chest.

Should you be trying to get your arm going as fast as you can with your initial hip turn, or just enough to get your arm moving into the right pec position?

I feel like if i really power my hips to 90 degrees (parallel with the target) my arm ends up behind my left shoulder (maybe i should be reaching away and back as opposed to reaching straight back?). Also, it seems like if i really power them hard to the 90 degree position, by the time I get to the elbow chop it seems like my arm is already going at about 85-90% speed so the discs usually end up slipping out about halfway into the elbow chop.

If i start clamping down right when i start the elbow chop i can usually avoid the slip but I don't know if i'd call what i get at the end a rip either (it doesn't feel like the discs are flinging out like they do with the right pec drill, but it doesn't feel like it's slipping either).