If this is any comfort, LJD, apparently Lucas really liked Thrawn and NJO.

Also, I'm pretty much in agreement with you about most of the post-ROTJ novels. There's a lot of nostalgia for the Bantam era but imo it's over-rated. I think NJO was the highlight of Del Rey's reign, they reached their zenith with it, and just can't repeat that success.

I heard he liked Dark Empire too. I agree about New Jedi Order, but I also think I've been looking at even it through a nostalgic lens. I can understand Del Rey not wanting to repeat a 19 book series with 12 different authors, but the choices they've taken with their subsequent stories has been downright abysmal, and I don't understand why they would follow up LOTF with an identically formatted series. Why not let the authors write each successive trilogy? Any continuity hiccups would only occur between each trilogy at worse, rather than every book.

The only argument against it is it would take longer, and given the rate they're releasing FOTJ at now, I don't think it would be different. I don't think they planned on releasing them this slowly but fan response to the first trilogy's issues led to it... they should have just done Allston 1-3, Golden 4-6, Denning 7-9 from the start.

Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:14 pm

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7814Location: Sailing into the unknown

The thing is fans will never be able to agree what is "good" EU or "bad" EU. You like Dark Empire, but most do not. I liked LotF and most, it seems, do not. They won't be able to select certain stories to remain in continuity. It either all stays or it all goes. I for one vote that it all stays._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:20 pm

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Crash OverrideMaster

Joined: 22 Dec 2010Posts: 1962

Dark Empire and LOTF are essentially the same story, except in Luke isn't killed by Leia at the end of Dark Empire.

Edit: I suppose this might be some sort of gauge that determines whether someone likes LOTF or not: when did they start reading SW EU? If Legacy of the Force is their first foray into it, or they didn't read the New Jedi Order series, perhaps the biggest flaw of LOTF isn't apparent to them. That is, Jacen was the hero of the New Jedi Order series. He became Luke. Killing him in LOTF is as unsatisfying to the reader as it would have been if Leia had killed Luke at the end of Dark Empire.

I think it's worse than killing Anakin Solo in Star by Star. Okay, he's built up in the two preceding books to be the hero of the series, and he dies. But at least he dies a hero. Jacen was built up from Traitor to Destiny's Way to Remnant/Reunion/Refugee to The Unifying Force to be Luke's successor. And then he's turned into a villain and unceremoniously killed, which is simply in contrast to the original Star Wars trilogy, Dark Empire, and the New Jedi Order.

That, and the fact that it destroys any point to the New Jedi Order series at all. Ironically, it actually makes the Sith look more sympathetic than the Jedi.

Hmm. I'm going to have to disagree with your idea about why people like LOTF. I am proof against it. I had read Thrawn, I' Jedi, Hand of Thrawn, NJO, Dark Nest and then LOTF, yet I still liked it. Instead, I believe it's a case of people who read it as it was released, or those who took a long break between each book, next to people who read the series all in one go.

The people who read it as it was released had months to cement opinions, ferment thoughts and ideas, whereas those who read each book directly after the other, had no such time to have 'rebellious thoughts'. We, or at least I, have seen this happening with the current series. A lot of people who've read it as it's been released have had time to dissect it for all the flaws, whereas the people who are just catching up quite like the series._________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:13 am

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Lord Ree'diusMaster

Joined: 11 Apr 2011Posts: 700Location: The Unknown Regions

Reepicheep wrote:

I wouldn't want a reboot. For me the cons would hugely outweigh the pros. True, there are some things in the EU that I wish we could just pretend never happened but we'd be missing out on so much good stuff.

I'm with you Reepicheep!

Queen Padme Skywalker wrote:

Not to mention the time many of us have put into the current EU. I'd be...hesitant about a reboot.

And hesitant would be mildly put You're totally correct, my Queen._________________"Strong you are with the dark side, young one. But not that strong.
Still much to learn, you have. Surrender, you should."

"You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

I'm not totally against a reboot, but it'd have to be pretty danged awesome for me to get onboard._________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

Those without swords can still die upon them

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:10 pm

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Lord Ree'diusMaster

Joined: 11 Apr 2011Posts: 700Location: The Unknown Regions

I think I wouldn't start all over again.
I've invested quite a lot in this universe and don't dislike as much of it as others seem to.
I'm all for fresh ideas in this EU though _________________"Strong you are with the dark side, young one. But not that strong.
Still much to learn, you have. Surrender, you should."

"You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

Hmm. I'm going to have to disagree with your idea about why people like LOTF. I am proof against it. I had read Thrawn, I' Jedi, Hand of Thrawn, NJO, Dark Nest and then LOTF, yet I still liked it. Instead, I believe it's a case of people who read it as it was released, or those who took a long break between each book, next to people who read the series all in one go.

The people who read it as it was released had months to cement opinions, ferment thoughts and ideas, whereas those who read each book directly after the other, had no such time to have 'rebellious thoughts'. We, or at least I, have seen this happening with the current series. A lot of people who've read it as it's been released have had time to dissect it for all the flaws, whereas the people who are just catching up quite like the series.

Well, I thought Betrayal was really good, and I also enjoyed Bloodlines when I read it. Then in Tempest I noticed that Jacen's characterization was completely different and it turned me off and I didn't start reading again until Revelation was out, then I read from Exile to Revelation all at once, and at that point I didn't read Invincible until it had been released in paperback for a few months, basically before I read Outcast.

I'd be inclined to think that reading them all at once would actually be worse for the series because of the jarring changes in characterization that accompany most of the books. Reading them over long periods of time would make one more likely to forget that sort of stuff.

And I didn't dislike LOTF so much as I was just bored with it when I was first reading it. The plot induced character stupidity was extremely annoying. And I felt like I was just reading a rehash of the film saga, condensed into a really short period of time.

Honestly, my recognition of Jacen as the next hero character in the NJO probably didn't really come until after LOTF was finished, and then re-reading it all I realized what they had done. I think my first reading of the books NJO through LOTF was pretty superficial when it came to the themes and the deeper stuff with Vergere, and it wasn't until I read them on a deeper level that I came to the realization. I didn't care that Betrayal revealed that Vergere was allegedly a Sith apprentice when I first read it, nor did I attempt to sort out that convoluted backstory retcon and realize how ridiculous it was at the time. I also didn't notice the absolute shift if Jacen's character from NJO to Dark Nest that is JINO.

I think the whole Vergere thing and JINO thing is the core of why people dislike LOTF, which is why I theorized reading NJO later changes one's opinion of LOTF. If people already read LOTF when they read NJO, Vergere's stuff is already tainted in their mind, and Jacen's actions in that series are viewed through an entirely different lens -- which I think ruins the series. I could actually write a much longer post about why I think LOTF ruins the NJO series, especially if one reads LOTF before NJO, but I'm already overly verbose as it is.

Plus killing Mara Jade for shock value and, in my opinion, because they felt it was necessary to keep that up after the NJO did it.