Comments on: Could Tithing Lead Some Americans to Lose Their Homes?http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/
Common sense advice on money saving tips, how to get out of debt, high interest savings accounts, cd rates, money market accounts, mortgage rates, money management and more.Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:47:14 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1By: Martihttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-1/#comment-3865353
MartiTue, 25 Nov 2014 21:43:10 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-3865353I kind of question the 10% guideline. In doing a search on how other countries tax their church members, it is quite interesting that very few other countries use the 10% figure. Is their Bible different in those other countries (I don't think so). You can do a google search on it - search Wikipedia on tithes in other countries. I would guess that some of our church leaders must think the people in the U.S. are rather stupid. The Bible says to give what you can afford - and to give generously out of joy. When you are pressured into that 10% - you are not giving joyously! I think this is one of the things that keep lots of people from attending church. Church has become a big business! And, yes - I do go to church, but I don't let others tell me what I should give. That is between me and God!I kind of question the 10% guideline. In doing a search on how other countries tax their church members, it is quite interesting that very few other countries use the 10% figure. Is their Bible different in those other countries (I don’t think so). You can do a google search on it – search Wikipedia on tithes in other countries. I would guess that some of our church leaders must think the people in the U.S. are rather stupid. The Bible says to give what you can afford – and to give generously out of joy. When you are pressured into that 10% – you are not giving joyously! I think this is one of the things that keep lots of people from attending church. Church has become a big business! And, yes – I do go to church, but I don’t let others tell me what I should give. That is between me and God!

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]]>By: Andreahttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-1280092
AndreaTue, 22 Mar 2011 23:28:43 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-1280092My church (Catholic) asks that we support it as generously as we can depending on our circumstances. (I've read others' discussion on the internet and it is dizzying all the different angles/arguments/Biblical passages) Ultimately, I have been poor and on the receiving end of charity for all of my childhood/teen years. Now that I'm making good money, and I'm not married/no children, I take pleasure in being able to give money away. I have a special affection for Lutherans because they kept me fed for many years through their local food bank.My church (Catholic) asks that we support it as generously as we can depending on our circumstances. (I’ve read others’ discussion on the internet and it is dizzying all the different angles/arguments/Biblical passages) Ultimately, I have been poor and on the receiving end of charity for all of my childhood/teen years. Now that I’m making good money, and I’m not married/no children, I take pleasure in being able to give money away. I have a special affection for Lutherans because they kept me fed for many years through their local food bank.

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]]>By: ladykemma2http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-495741
ladykemma2Mon, 07 Jun 2010 19:33:40 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-495741LDS (Mormon) here. answering the thread two years later.
i tithe on my take home pay - my interpretation of "1/10 of my increase".
then i built my life on a budget on the remaining 9/10. i don't know why 9/10 goes further than 10/10 but it does.
this is what i do
10% to church
10% to liquid savings
fill sinking funds (freedom account)
then live on 70% of my income.
doing so, i have a mortage free, debt free, life, because the church teaches to be debt free except for possibly a mortgage or educational loans.
my church will also step in and pay your bills if you continue to pay a tithe. this is at the bishops discretion until you can get the house sold or otherwise get your affairs in order. we also store a year's worth of food in the house as our own internal welfare system. the bishop can (but doesn't) can ask to use the stored food at any time.
we also have HUGE welfare facilities, where you can work for a day and bring home groceries. but you have to be a tithe payer to use the service.
for some reason, my faith is buoyed up when i tithe, spiritually stronger.LDS (Mormon) here. answering the thread two years later.

i tithe on my take home pay – my interpretation of “1/10 of my increase”.

then i built my life on a budget on the remaining 9/10. i don’t know why 9/10 goes further than 10/10 but it does.

this is what i do
10% to church
10% to liquid savings
fill sinking funds (freedom account)
then live on 70% of my income.
doing so, i have a mortage free, debt free, life, because the church teaches to be debt free except for possibly a mortgage or educational loans.

my church will also step in and pay your bills if you continue to pay a tithe. this is at the bishops discretion until you can get the house sold or otherwise get your affairs in order. we also store a year’s worth of food in the house as our own internal welfare system. the bishop can (but doesn’t) can ask to use the stored food at any time.

we also have HUGE welfare facilities, where you can work for a day and bring home groceries. but you have to be a tithe payer to use the service.

for some reason, my faith is buoyed up when i tithe, spiritually stronger.

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]]>By: Patricia Backorahttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-458991
Patricia BackoraTue, 18 May 2010 16:00:39 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-458991Jesus talked about crafty religious thieves devouring widows' houses, and the FALSE, UNSCRIPTURAL, MANMADE monetary tithing doctrine makes this happen today. If preachers are so anxious to force tithing on Christians when the apostles themselves didn't do it in Acts 15, then why no mention of Israel's third-year tithe, which went to the poor (see Deut 14:27-29, 26:12-14). What rich preacher ever turns ALL the tithe over to them every three years? And what about the seventh year when NO tithes could be taken off the land, which was allowed to REST? (see Lev.25:1-4). Israel was punished for the sin of sowing and reaping their lands in the seventh year when God told them not to, not blessed. So much for these parasite fat boys in the pulpit who holler that you must work around the clock to support their gluttonous life style! How many Christians get a whole year off from tithing every seventh year?Jesus talked about crafty religious thieves devouring widows’ houses, and the FALSE, UNSCRIPTURAL, MANMADE monetary tithing doctrine makes this happen today. If preachers are so anxious to force tithing on Christians when the apostles themselves didn’t do it in Acts 15, then why no mention of Israel’s third-year tithe, which went to the poor (see Deut 14:27-29, 26:12-14). What rich preacher ever turns ALL the tithe over to them every three years? And what about the seventh year when NO tithes could be taken off the land, which was allowed to REST? (see Lev.25:1-4). Israel was punished for the sin of sowing and reaping their lands in the seventh year when God told them not to, not blessed. So much for these parasite fat boys in the pulpit who holler that you must work around the clock to support their gluttonous life style! How many Christians get a whole year off from tithing every seventh year?

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]]>By: Donhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-211523
DonTue, 08 Dec 2009 01:47:08 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-211523Why are they losing their homes in the first place if they are tithing? According to the majority of Pastors that enforce tithing they encourage tithing by telling members that tithing (sometimes called financial sowing ) will result in Gods favor and blessings! Yet there is no requirement for tithing in the New Testament among Gentiles after the Cross Jesus fulfilled all 613 laws in our place and forgave the sin of breaking those laws.
Tithing was a commandment to the Jewish nation only. Once Jesus went to the Cross then only did Gentiles have access to God by Faith in His Son Jesus. We have Salvation and a promise that we can go to God in Jesus name for free. They Christians that are abiding in Jesus as their Lord & Savior can ask our Father (God) in His name for our daily bread and provision. Jesus is our New better Covenant according to Hebrews 8:6.
Some tithe enforcers still use Malachi 3:3-7 and the curse for not keeping the tithe law yet they ignore the other laws such as stoning people to death for adultery, disobedience to parents, death for going into the Holiest place in the temple unless you are a High Priest and with a blood sacrifice. There was also stoning for working on the Sabbath and there was also no unnecessary movement or activity from Frid eve. till Sat. eve. and the Jews still have their services were on Saturday not Sunday including not working or recreation of any kind. If Christ blotted out ordinances against us as in Colossians 2:15 on the Cross. Acording to according to Gal.3:13 "Christ has saved us from the curse of the law" (breaking the tithe law & the other 613 laws) then why are so many Christians Pastors quoting an Old Testament ordinance Jewish law and to put fear and guilt into people to enforce tithing? Notice most Christians do not celebrate Jewish feast or Holidays. Many don't even know what they are or what they mean. So to enforce an Old Covenant law such as tithing but ignoring everything else observed by Jews is plainly manipulation and Scripture twisting.
If you swallow the lie you are cursed and have to pay God for blessings and favor then you will have what you believe. I feel sorry for people who do not realize the paid in full payment made by Jesus on the Cross for access and favor from God. Many feel so puffed up and superior yet they do not realize they are negating the payment Christ has already made not just to graft them into the family of God but for their healing, blessings and freedom from curses!
In essence they are stealing away the recognition of that payment and substituting it with their tithe works. Who is getting the glory then?Why are they losing their homes in the first place if they are tithing? According to the majority of Pastors that enforce tithing they encourage tithing by telling members that tithing (sometimes called financial sowing ) will result in Gods favor and blessings! Yet there is no requirement for tithing in the New Testament among Gentiles after the Cross Jesus fulfilled all 613 laws in our place and forgave the sin of breaking those laws.
Tithing was a commandment to the Jewish nation only. Once Jesus went to the Cross then only did Gentiles have access to God by Faith in His Son Jesus. We have Salvation and a promise that we can go to God in Jesus name for free. They Christians that are abiding in Jesus as their Lord & Savior can ask our Father (God) in His name for our daily bread and provision. Jesus is our New better Covenant according to Hebrews 8:6.

Some tithe enforcers still use Malachi 3:3-7 and the curse for not keeping the tithe law yet they ignore the other laws such as stoning people to death for adultery, disobedience to parents, death for going into the Holiest place in the temple unless you are a High Priest and with a blood sacrifice. There was also stoning for working on the Sabbath and there was also no unnecessary movement or activity from Frid eve. till Sat. eve. and the Jews still have their services were on Saturday not Sunday including not working or recreation of any kind. If Christ blotted out ordinances against us as in Colossians 2:15 on the Cross. Acording to according to Gal.3:13 “Christ has saved us from the curse of the law” (breaking the tithe law & the other 613 laws) then why are so many Christians Pastors quoting an Old Testament ordinance Jewish law and to put fear and guilt into people to enforce tithing? Notice most Christians do not celebrate Jewish feast or Holidays. Many don’t even know what they are or what they mean. So to enforce an Old Covenant law such as tithing but ignoring everything else observed by Jews is plainly manipulation and Scripture twisting.
If you swallow the lie you are cursed and have to pay God for blessings and favor then you will have what you believe. I feel sorry for people who do not realize the paid in full payment made by Jesus on the Cross for access and favor from God. Many feel so puffed up and superior yet they do not realize they are negating the payment Christ has already made not just to graft them into the family of God but for their healing, blessings and freedom from curses!
In essence they are stealing away the recognition of that payment and substituting it with their tithe works. Who is getting the glory then?

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]]>By: Annehttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-209977
AnneSun, 29 Nov 2009 06:38:26 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-209977To John D. Carmack:
Your interpretation of Scripture is almost 100% wrong.
You seem to be one of those Christians that think it is more "spiritual" to celebrate the feasts, eat kosher, etc. I know people like that and it is so sad that they do not understand the Scriptures that tell us that none of that means a thing.
I do celebrate a Seder service with my children on or around Good Friday, but only because the service fits nicely during that time and is a complete type and shadow of Jesus' completed work on the cross.
You are completely off-base in your comments. As the person you criticized pointed out, the Bible says that Jesus WAS MADE A CURSE FOR US. As Christians we can never be under a curse unless we decide to actually reject Jesus.
I have been a Christian and Bible student for over 30 years. During that time I have tithed and I have not tithed. During the times that I tithed I still had major financial problems mainly because my husband and I have chosen to have me stay home to raise our children. We are a one-income family in a two-income world. Not only that but my husband never attended college and has been stuck in the industry he grew up in: construction, which unfortunately is very subject to the ups-and-downs of the national economic scenario. (It's been a very bad year for us.)
We do not tithe now but we do give generously. My point is that when people in "ministry" say just tithe and you will have all the finances you could possibly need, it's just not true. Jesus said to the Pharisees that they should not neglect the greater things like mercy. He did not tell them not to tithe because he had not nailed the law to the cross yet. The apostle Paul made it very clear that we should never give out of a feeling of compulsion, which is what all the preaching on tithing is.
If you love Jesus, you are going to want to share what the Lord has given you. Our family supports two children through Compassion International. In fact, I have been supporting children through that ministry since I was 18 years old!
We also give to evangelistic ministries and organizations that work to stem the tide of corruption in our nation. Over the almost 28 years of marriage that my husband and I have had we have given probably close to $140,000 to various churches and ministries. During our 28 years of marriage we have never had a time where money was not a concern, and we are certainly not set for retirement. But I would not want that money back. Every time I give it is a statement that life is more than things, and God is bigger than all of it.To John D. Carmack:

Your interpretation of Scripture is almost 100% wrong.

You seem to be one of those Christians that think it is more “spiritual” to celebrate the feasts, eat kosher, etc. I know people like that and it is so sad that they do not understand the Scriptures that tell us that none of that means a thing.

I do celebrate a Seder service with my children on or around Good Friday, but only because the service fits nicely during that time and is a complete type and shadow of Jesus’ completed work on the cross.

You are completely off-base in your comments. As the person you criticized pointed out, the Bible says that Jesus WAS MADE A CURSE FOR US. As Christians we can never be under a curse unless we decide to actually reject Jesus.

I have been a Christian and Bible student for over 30 years. During that time I have tithed and I have not tithed. During the times that I tithed I still had major financial problems mainly because my husband and I have chosen to have me stay home to raise our children. We are a one-income family in a two-income world. Not only that but my husband never attended college and has been stuck in the industry he grew up in: construction, which unfortunately is very subject to the ups-and-downs of the national economic scenario. (It’s been a very bad year for us.)

We do not tithe now but we do give generously. My point is that when people in “ministry” say just tithe and you will have all the finances you could possibly need, it’s just not true. Jesus said to the Pharisees that they should not neglect the greater things like mercy. He did not tell them not to tithe because he had not nailed the law to the cross yet. The apostle Paul made it very clear that we should never give out of a feeling of compulsion, which is what all the preaching on tithing is.

If you love Jesus, you are going to want to share what the Lord has given you. Our family supports two children through Compassion International. In fact, I have been supporting children through that ministry since I was 18 years old!

We also give to evangelistic ministries and organizations that work to stem the tide of corruption in our nation. Over the almost 28 years of marriage that my husband and I have had we have given probably close to $140,000 to various churches and ministries. During our 28 years of marriage we have never had a time where money was not a concern, and we are certainly not set for retirement. But I would not want that money back. Every time I give it is a statement that life is more than things, and God is bigger than all of it.

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]]>By: John D Carmackhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-209927
John D CarmackSat, 28 Nov 2009 22:29:56 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-209927@De: This was an interesting post to receive via email on the Sabbath. I know I had a wonderful Feast of Tabernacles last month, and I'm already looking forward to the next Passover. I am saddened that you do not see the value in these things, and that you are under the misconception that the Law was nailed to the cross. Perhaps you need a better translation of Col 2:14, which says in the CEV, "God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross." You see, He took away our sins, not the Law. Otherwise, if there were no Law, sin would not be possible. That's why Paul praised the Law in Romans 7.
There isn't enough room here for a treatise of the Law and why it is still binding, though.
However, you are also under the mistaken assumption that Gentiles cannot come under the blessings of the Covenant. Yet, even while coming out of Egypt, God gave Moses instructions about how to convert Gentiles so they may eat the Passover (Ex 12:48-49). Converts to Judaism were not unknown in Jesus' day, either.
Frankly, any nation that truly turned and obeyed God would be blessed. Israel was intended to be an example nation in that regard. Instead, they became an example of what not to do. They came under a national curse because they as a nation did not obey, and that included tithing.
Christians come under a curse, but not of the same type, for not tithing, even as they would for any willful disobedience. The curse in that case is not being able to obtain eternal life. The Bible makes it very clear what happens to those who continue in willful disobedience. The stakes are very different for the Church than they were for ancient Israel. The Covenants are different because the promises were different. The underlying moral principles have not changed, however.
The Pharisees actually did not keep the Law, and Jesus criticized them for that. However, they felt superior, and much of that was because they kept traditions that were never part of the Law to begin with. In some cases, their traditions actually contradicted the Law. Yet, because they felt they were not sinners, they felt they had no need for a Savior. That was their worst sin of all -- rejection of the very Messiah they claimed they were looking for.@De: This was an interesting post to receive via email on the Sabbath. I know I had a wonderful Feast of Tabernacles last month, and I’m already looking forward to the next Passover. I am saddened that you do not see the value in these things, and that you are under the misconception that the Law was nailed to the cross. Perhaps you need a better translation of Col 2:14, which says in the CEV, “God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross.” You see, He took away our sins, not the Law. Otherwise, if there were no Law, sin would not be possible. That’s why Paul praised the Law in Romans 7.

There isn’t enough room here for a treatise of the Law and why it is still binding, though.

However, you are also under the mistaken assumption that Gentiles cannot come under the blessings of the Covenant. Yet, even while coming out of Egypt, God gave Moses instructions about how to convert Gentiles so they may eat the Passover (Ex 12:48-49). Converts to Judaism were not unknown in Jesus’ day, either.

Frankly, any nation that truly turned and obeyed God would be blessed. Israel was intended to be an example nation in that regard. Instead, they became an example of what not to do. They came under a national curse because they as a nation did not obey, and that included tithing.

Christians come under a curse, but not of the same type, for not tithing, even as they would for any willful disobedience. The curse in that case is not being able to obtain eternal life. The Bible makes it very clear what happens to those who continue in willful disobedience. The stakes are very different for the Church than they were for ancient Israel. The Covenants are different because the promises were different. The underlying moral principles have not changed, however.

The Pharisees actually did not keep the Law, and Jesus criticized them for that. However, they felt superior, and much of that was because they kept traditions that were never part of the Law to begin with. In some cases, their traditions actually contradicted the Law. Yet, because they felt they were not sinners, they felt they had no need for a Savior. That was their worst sin of all — rejection of the very Messiah they claimed they were looking for.

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]]>By: Dehttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-209836
DeSat, 28 Nov 2009 02:12:30 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-209836To all you bible illiterates that feel you are cursed if you do not tithe. Why aren't you also keeping the Sabbath law? To keep the Sabbath back then meant to rest from all work and unnecessary movement from Friday evening till Saturday night. Since you are not doing that you have only selected one law that suits you to keep. All had Old Covenant laws in the Old Testament to be kept by the Jews to be in Covenant & right-standing with God. God said in Malachi 3:3-7 that those Jews in the Old Covenant (in which he was addressing) had not kept His Ordinances (requirements) which is plural for all of the laws which included 613 Old Testament Laws of Moses, Jewish Feast and Jewish Ceremonies. Jesus came to die and when he died and rose again he took the curse of the law and was made a curse in your place Gal. 3:13 The New Testament speaks of Jesus as our New and Better Covenant in Hebrews Chapter 7:22 and 8:6. Tithing was food from crops owned by Land owners and yes they had money back then, remember Jacob's favorite son, second in command of Egypt whose name was Joseph sold food for coins in the seven years of famine.?
When God said he would pour out a blessing in Malachi, the word pour out was first mentioned as rain poured out and that was what God meant that He would pour out. Rain meant their crops would grow in abundance. These crops would grow so much food that no barn could contain it all. Food is not even what is taught should be tithed today. Changing the tithe from food to money is changing what the tithe was which is understandable because Church bills are due but it is still changing the terms which is manipulation and scripture twisting nevertheless. Either Christ nailed the law to the Cross and was made a curse for us or He the bible lied. Since God cannot lie then Pastors are the ones lying when they look back at the Old Testament to still use the fear of being cursed to enforce tithing. Secondly no Gentile could even get in on the Covenant. The law and Oracles of God was given only to the Jews first.
Gentiles (not Jews) were grafted in by way of the Cross.
Would most Christians even keep the Sabbath law even if it was still required?
No most all love the Shopping malls, going to the Hair Stylist on Saturday or Football games, Basketball, Soccer too much. Thanks to Jesus we are not required to keep the Sabbath law, or any of those Old Testament laws, Feast and Ceremonies. We are under Grace, not Old Covenant laws, rituals, the Jewish Circumcision law and Jewish Ceremonies. How many Christians are keeping the Jewish Day of Atonement? How about the Passover Feast? use Logic and the brain God gave you and then you will be free from the sin of stealing the glory and attention Jesus alone deserves for the work He (not us) finished and paid in full on the Cross. God must be angry that Tithing has replaced the work of Jesus on the Cross by modern day Pharisees. Notice the similarity of the Pharisees who were always condemning Jesus and His disciples for not keeping the Sabbath? All the praise goes to tithing whenever a prayer is answered or a blessing is received they credit it to their tithing. You feel so superior and beloved of God for your tithing just like the Pharisees for their law-keeping and Sabbath keeping. Will the real ones robbing God stand up?To all you bible illiterates that feel you are cursed if you do not tithe. Why aren’t you also keeping the Sabbath law? To keep the Sabbath back then meant to rest from all work and unnecessary movement from Friday evening till Saturday night. Since you are not doing that you have only selected one law that suits you to keep. All had Old Covenant laws in the Old Testament to be kept by the Jews to be in Covenant & right-standing with God. God said in Malachi 3:3-7 that those Jews in the Old Covenant (in which he was addressing) had not kept His Ordinances (requirements) which is plural for all of the laws which included 613 Old Testament Laws of Moses, Jewish Feast and Jewish Ceremonies. Jesus came to die and when he died and rose again he took the curse of the law and was made a curse in your place Gal. 3:13 The New Testament speaks of Jesus as our New and Better Covenant in Hebrews Chapter 7:22 and 8:6. Tithing was food from crops owned by Land owners and yes they had money back then, remember Jacob’s favorite son, second in command of Egypt whose name was Joseph sold food for coins in the seven years of famine.?

When God said he would pour out a blessing in Malachi, the word pour out was first mentioned as rain poured out and that was what God meant that He would pour out. Rain meant their crops would grow in abundance. These crops would grow so much food that no barn could contain it all. Food is not even what is taught should be tithed today. Changing the tithe from food to money is changing what the tithe was which is understandable because Church bills are due but it is still changing the terms which is manipulation and scripture twisting nevertheless. Either Christ nailed the law to the Cross and was made a curse for us or He the bible lied. Since God cannot lie then Pastors are the ones lying when they look back at the Old Testament to still use the fear of being cursed to enforce tithing. Secondly no Gentile could even get in on the Covenant. The law and Oracles of God was given only to the Jews first.
Gentiles (not Jews) were grafted in by way of the Cross.

Would most Christians even keep the Sabbath law even if it was still required?
No most all love the Shopping malls, going to the Hair Stylist on Saturday or Football games, Basketball, Soccer too much. Thanks to Jesus we are not required to keep the Sabbath law, or any of those Old Testament laws, Feast and Ceremonies. We are under Grace, not Old Covenant laws, rituals, the Jewish Circumcision law and Jewish Ceremonies. How many Christians are keeping the Jewish Day of Atonement? How about the Passover Feast? use Logic and the brain God gave you and then you will be free from the sin of stealing the glory and attention Jesus alone deserves for the work He (not us) finished and paid in full on the Cross. God must be angry that Tithing has replaced the work of Jesus on the Cross by modern day Pharisees. Notice the similarity of the Pharisees who were always condemning Jesus and His disciples for not keeping the Sabbath? All the praise goes to tithing whenever a prayer is answered or a blessing is received they credit it to their tithing. You feel so superior and beloved of God for your tithing just like the Pharisees for their law-keeping and Sabbath keeping. Will the real ones robbing God stand up?

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]]>By: ZUSIE Qhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-193486
ZUSIE QSat, 22 Aug 2009 05:31:37 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-193486FOR ALL THE PROMISES OF GOD IN HIM (CHRIST) ARE "YES" AND IN HIM AMEN! -2ND CORINTHIAN CHAPTER 1 VERSE 20-FOR ALL THE PROMISES OF GOD IN HIM (CHRIST) ARE “YES” AND IN HIM AMEN! -2ND CORINTHIAN CHAPTER 1 VERSE 20-

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]]>By: anonymous 2http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-193221
anonymous 2Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:42:04 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-193221If they are tithing why are they losing their homes?
When teaching people to pay tithes it is taught that the windows of Heaven is supposed to open up with an overflow of blessing you will have to make room for. According to the Old Testament in Malachi 3,
But in the New Testament,Jesus said we can ask God in His name for any need and He will do it I don't recall Him saying after I check your tithe records! I also don't remember him mentioning the tithe law except when he was talking to the Pharisees who were still under the law before he died and went to the Cross. There was also the law of stoning people for Adultery-which Jesus includes looking and lusting in your heart. What do you Pro-law Old Testament laws think about that one? There would hardly be anybody still alive to pay tithes but you want pick and choose the ones you feel you can keep. Seems Very hypocritical in my opinion! We are not against tithing just mandating it as still a law to avoid being cursed with that Old Testament curse. We have a New Covenant folks because Jesus fulfilled the law for us to perfection. Faith in him is where you get your favor from God. If you worked for it then you earned it and deserve it, but Grace means favor that is not deserved or merited by any works. The theme throughout Hebrews, Galatians, Romans etc is Grace not works and that we have a New Covenant and New Testament. The Old Testament pointed to Jesus. The Old was a mere shadow and type of the better to come which was Jesus.
Does anyone know what the word New Means? To test the complexity of this I asked my 5 year old and she said it means it is not Old but something new.If they are tithing why are they losing their homes?
When teaching people to pay tithes it is taught that the windows of Heaven is supposed to open up with an overflow of blessing you will have to make room for. According to the Old Testament in Malachi 3,
But in the New Testament,Jesus said we can ask God in His name for any need and He will do it I don’t recall Him saying after I check your tithe records! I also don’t remember him mentioning the tithe law except when he was talking to the Pharisees who were still under the law before he died and went to the Cross. There was also the law of stoning people for Adultery-which Jesus includes looking and lusting in your heart. What do you Pro-law Old Testament laws think about that one? There would hardly be anybody still alive to pay tithes but you want pick and choose the ones you feel you can keep. Seems Very hypocritical in my opinion! We are not against tithing just mandating it as still a law to avoid being cursed with that Old Testament curse. We have a New Covenant folks because Jesus fulfilled the law for us to perfection. Faith in him is where you get your favor from God. If you worked for it then you earned it and deserve it, but Grace means favor that is not deserved or merited by any works. The theme throughout Hebrews, Galatians, Romans etc is Grace not works and that we have a New Covenant and New Testament. The Old Testament pointed to Jesus. The Old was a mere shadow and type of the better to come which was Jesus.
Does anyone know what the word New Means? To test the complexity of this I asked my 5 year old and she said it means it is not Old but something new.

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]]>By: N Millshttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-189076
N MillsFri, 31 Jul 2009 12:37:26 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-189076Jesus fulfilled the whole of the law because we couldn't. Our favor, blessing, health and prosperity is now based on his works on the cross not our works He paid it all and said so from the cross ("it is finished"), that is what Grace is all about. We have been redeemed from the curse of the law according to Galatians. Now we are free to give voluntarily. Not out of pressure but as a cheerful giver. The Lord deserves all of the credit and it is no longer by our works but his. Maybe this is why they are losing their homes, we can never do enough or give enough, we needed saving in every area of our lives!
Tithe Instructors are preaching the Malachi verse 3 that not tithing will bring a curse but that was before the Lord came and died on that cross. His works alone deserves the praise attention and credit!Jesus fulfilled the whole of the law because we couldn’t. Our favor, blessing, health and prosperity is now based on his works on the cross not our works He paid it all and said so from the cross (“it is finished”), that is what Grace is all about. We have been redeemed from the curse of the law according to Galatians. Now we are free to give voluntarily. Not out of pressure but as a cheerful giver. The Lord deserves all of the credit and it is no longer by our works but his. Maybe this is why they are losing their homes, we can never do enough or give enough, we needed saving in every area of our lives!
Tithe Instructors are preaching the Malachi verse 3 that not tithing will bring a curse but that was before the Lord came and died on that cross. His works alone deserves the praise attention and credit!

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]]>By: anonymoushttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-189051
anonymousFri, 31 Jul 2009 05:07:49 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-189051If these people are tithing why are they losing their homes in the first place? Aren't they supposed to have an overflow of blessings poured out that they will not have room enough for? Pastors quote this in Malachi 3 to people that faithfully tithe. They are twisting scriptures out of context. This Old Testament verse is not supposed to apply to New Testament Gentile believers after Christ.
Christ came and abolished the law by fulfilling it for us. He abolished the ordinances that was against us, taking it out of the way and nailing it to the cross. Col.2:14
People do not study their New Testament so they have not figured out exactly what Jesus accomplished.
He fulfilled the whole law, all 613 required Old Testament Ordinances for us as our substitute. No one was capable of keeping those laws to perfection in the first place which is why we needed a Savior.
God has now freely given us all things Romans 8:32-33 Not because of any works we have done but solely because of His attributes of goodness, mercy and faithfulness.
"Christ has redeemed from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us". If Jesus took our curses according to Galatians, then we are no longer under the curse of the law. You will not find one instruction to keep the tithe law or any other OT law to have access and favor with God to the Gentiles in the New Testament after Christ declared translation of "it is finished" is "paid in full". You don't have to be a Rocket Scientist to know what that means. Zero means owing nothing, Zero!!! I pray that they will stop robbing God of His glory for His work on the cross not the tithe work they boast in. Not against tithing just enforced, mandated tithing cause it is a extortion and distortion on the body of Christ!If these people are tithing why are they losing their homes in the first place? Aren’t they supposed to have an overflow of blessings poured out that they will not have room enough for? Pastors quote this in Malachi 3 to people that faithfully tithe. They are twisting scriptures out of context. This Old Testament verse is not supposed to apply to New Testament Gentile believers after Christ.
Christ came and abolished the law by fulfilling it for us. He abolished the ordinances that was against us, taking it out of the way and nailing it to the cross. Col.2:14
People do not study their New Testament so they have not figured out exactly what Jesus accomplished.
He fulfilled the whole law, all 613 required Old Testament Ordinances for us as our substitute. No one was capable of keeping those laws to perfection in the first place which is why we needed a Savior.
God has now freely given us all things Romans 8:32-33 Not because of any works we have done but solely because of His attributes of goodness, mercy and faithfulness.
“Christ has redeemed from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us”. If Jesus took our curses according to Galatians, then we are no longer under the curse of the law. You will not find one instruction to keep the tithe law or any other OT law to have access and favor with God to the Gentiles in the New Testament after Christ declared translation of “it is finished” is “paid in full”. You don’t have to be a Rocket Scientist to know what that means. Zero means owing nothing, Zero!!! I pray that they will stop robbing God of His glory for His work on the cross not the tithe work they boast in. Not against tithing just enforced, mandated tithing cause it is a extortion and distortion on the body of Christ!

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]]>By: Jayhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-173810
JaySat, 28 Mar 2009 18:42:45 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-173810Ephesians 4 (King James Version)
Ephesians 4
1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20But ye have not so learned Christ;
21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27Neither give place to the devil.
28Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.Ephesians 4 (King James Version)

Ephesians 4
1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20But ye have not so learned Christ;

21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27Neither give place to the devil.

28Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

29Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

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]]>By: Jayhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-173809
JaySat, 28 Mar 2009 18:33:55 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-173809Kim the Bible says to give your first fruits all that you make to God it does not say that you have to give 10% to your church it say you have to give 10% to God He leads us who to give it to.... widows orfans poor people in need. Latter Day Saints is a cult because they believe in Joesph Smith. Jehovah's Witness is also a cult they are crazy and are trying to live by the law to be saved.
Ephesians 2:8 (King James Version)
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Kim the Bible says to give your first fruits all that you make to God it does not say that you have to give 10% to your church it say you have to give 10% to God He leads us who to give it to…. widows orfans poor people in need. Latter Day Saints is a cult because they believe in Joesph Smith. Jehovah’s Witness is also a cult they are crazy and are trying to live by the law to be saved.

Ephesians 2:8 (King James Version)

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

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]]>By: Kimhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-173802
KimSat, 28 Mar 2009 17:22:50 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-173802There are many religious organizations that take the Bible and distort it even for the good. I graduated from high school in Layton Utah and the Latter Day Saints were some of the most holiest people that I have ever been around. In addition, my cousin, who is a Jehovah's Witness is living a very good life based upon her church's distortion of the Bible.
I believe that it is equally wrong to distort the Bible in the Name of Jesus (good reasons) as well as for bad. Those who equate tithing and firstfruits all as the same as offering are doing exactly the same. Clearly, if you read the Bible, there is a difference between firstfruits and tithes as well as offerings. For Christians to try to argue that this is the same as modern day tithing are distorting the Bible and undermining the purposes these different rituals to God by the Israelites.
If you read the Old Testament, in addition to the three tithes, there were offerings that were required to be given. For example, gleanings, allowed the needy to pick up fruit that had fallen to the ground during the harvest (Leviticus 19:9-10; 23:22); the temple tax of one-third shekel was used to pay for the ongoing operations of the Temple (Nehemiah 10:32-33); and the Sabbath year offering required a mandated sacrifice of one’s entire income for a year every seventh year (Exodus 23:10-11). In addition to the first six tithes and offerings, there were two other personal offering that allowed the Israelites the discretion to determine how much they wanted to give: these were the firstfruit and freewill offerings. Firstfruits were not the same as the tithe. Unlike the tithe that was mandatory, firstfruits were voluntary and there were specific instructions of when and how they were to be given to the Lord. Contrary to what we are taught, the Law of First Things was also a separate commandment and unrelated to tithing. In Exodus 13:2, we see God’s commandment on this different spiritual principle:
Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
This offering referenced above was a one-time event unlike the tithe that was an annual event. Indeed, the giving of the tithe, the various offerings (heave offerings, wave offerings, sin offerings, burnt offerings, peace offerings, trespass offerings and meal offerings.) as well as the giving of first fruits, were all distinct ceremonial laws with different purposes.
It is puzzling that some churches today conclude that these various types of ceremonial practices can all be accomplished through the giving of money (i.e. 10% of their income).
My question is that if we are purportedly following the Bibles mandate, why are we not doing all of these different ceremonial rituals today.
Email me at kmtesq@aol.com for my full article on tithing.There are many religious organizations that take the Bible and distort it even for the good. I graduated from high school in Layton Utah and the Latter Day Saints were some of the most holiest people that I have ever been around. In addition, my cousin, who is a Jehovah’s Witness is living a very good life based upon her church’s distortion of the Bible.

I believe that it is equally wrong to distort the Bible in the Name of Jesus (good reasons) as well as for bad. Those who equate tithing and firstfruits all as the same as offering are doing exactly the same. Clearly, if you read the Bible, there is a difference between firstfruits and tithes as well as offerings. For Christians to try to argue that this is the same as modern day tithing are distorting the Bible and undermining the purposes these different rituals to God by the Israelites.

If you read the Old Testament, in addition to the three tithes, there were offerings that were required to be given. For example, gleanings, allowed the needy to pick up fruit that had fallen to the ground during the harvest (Leviticus 19:9-10; 23:22); the temple tax of one-third shekel was used to pay for the ongoing operations of the Temple (Nehemiah 10:32-33); and the Sabbath year offering required a mandated sacrifice of one’s entire income for a year every seventh year (Exodus 23:10-11). In addition to the first six tithes and offerings, there were two other personal offering that allowed the Israelites the discretion to determine how much they wanted to give: these were the firstfruit and freewill offerings. Firstfruits were not the same as the tithe. Unlike the tithe that was mandatory, firstfruits were voluntary and there were specific instructions of when and how they were to be given to the Lord. Contrary to what we are taught, the Law of First Things was also a separate commandment and unrelated to tithing. In Exodus 13:2, we see God’s commandment on this different spiritual principle:

Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.

This offering referenced above was a one-time event unlike the tithe that was an annual event. Indeed, the giving of the tithe, the various offerings (heave offerings, wave offerings, sin offerings, burnt offerings, peace offerings, trespass offerings and meal offerings.) as well as the giving of first fruits, were all distinct ceremonial laws with different purposes.

It is puzzling that some churches today conclude that these various types of ceremonial practices can all be accomplished through the giving of money (i.e. 10% of their income).

My question is that if we are purportedly following the Bibles mandate, why are we not doing all of these different ceremonial rituals today.

]]>By: March Harehttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-172785
March HareMon, 23 Mar 2009 00:53:02 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-172785Imagine my surprise when I saw a comment on this in my email today! I guess comments do not get closed around here, even after a long time.
Some things have changed since I posted a lot of what I wrote. I have not changed my mind, either, even though I myself have been out of work since October. Yes, we are struggling, but at least my wife is still working, and yes we do tithe on her income. Obviously, we have had to make some hard decisions, but God will bless our persistence and faith in the end.
But, you know what? Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah (better known as Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego) had a tougher choice. Their response was revealing.
"If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the [trial] ... But [even] if [He does] not, be it known unto thee ... that we will not [disobey God]."Imagine my surprise when I saw a comment on this in my email today! I guess comments do not get closed around here, even after a long time.

Some things have changed since I posted a lot of what I wrote. I have not changed my mind, either, even though I myself have been out of work since October. Yes, we are struggling, but at least my wife is still working, and yes we do tithe on her income. Obviously, we have had to make some hard decisions, but God will bless our persistence and faith in the end.

But, you know what? Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah (better known as Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego) had a tougher choice. Their response was revealing.

“If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the [trial] … But [even] if [He does] not, be it known unto thee … that we will not [disobey God].”

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]]>By: Jasonhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-172777
JasonMon, 23 Mar 2009 00:11:03 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-172777Hey Bro they are giving there first fruits to God Jesus Christ are Lord homie cause they are obeying Him and trusting that they will be given all of there needs acording to his glorious riches in Christ JesusHey Bro they are giving there first fruits to God Jesus Christ are Lord homie cause they are obeying Him and trusting that they will be given all of there needs acording to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus

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]]>By: JCLhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-158366
JCLTue, 02 Dec 2008 11:27:55 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-158366God has those who love Him tithe not because He needs our money, but because we need to be broken from depending on money as our source and throw our dependence back on Him. Because He has saved those who truly repent and put their trust in Him alone for salvation from a fate much worse than our finite human minds can even imagine, we *gladly* obey. We talk more about it in an article on our site here: http://reijourney.blogspot.com/2008/11/tithing-on-gross-vs-net-what-exactly-is.htmlGod has those who love Him tithe not because He needs our money, but because we need to be broken from depending on money as our source and throw our dependence back on Him. Because He has saved those who truly repent and put their trust in Him alone for salvation from a fate much worse than our finite human minds can even imagine, we *gladly* obey. We talk more about it in an article on our site here: http://reijourney.blogspot.com/2008/11/tithing-on-gross-vs-net-what-exactly-is.html

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]]>By: CH Brian Smithhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-157206
CH Brian SmithFri, 21 Nov 2008 13:50:03 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-157206An increadable amount of wisdom has been posted here.
Tithing isn't the problem. It is the debt. God wants us to not be in debt. When we are, we are to pay it. Jesus taught that if you go to the temple and realize that your brother has a greivance (debt) against you; then leave the sacrifice and settle the greivance. When the issue is settled, return to complete your sacrifice. He also taught that if someone comes to claim your coat for payment, give him your shirt as well. In other words, don't allow some one to accuse you of woeing them.
Ultimately, God wants to bless us. We have debt, because we have acted against his blessing and pledged our money to every vendor of wim and whimsey.
I would say that being able to tithe is the ultimate challenge to your financial prowess. If you are living within your financial means, you should be able to save 10%, tithe 10% and waist 10%. If you can't, you are probably choking on debt.
Yes God's word The Bible says we are to give him our first fruits. The Bible says it is to go into his store house. Those first fruits are used to aid the widows, orphans, the poor and those serving in the tabernacle. No where does God tell us to build buildings for Him. He was happy in a tent, but allowed His people to build the temple when thye wanted to be like other nations. (An early example of keeping up with the Smith's and Jones')
I am always disturbed when congregations go into debt to construct building. A church is not a building. The church is the collection of believers. As Peter described it, "... made with living stones."
Summary, don't be in debt! If you are, pay your bills. Pay cash. Tithe of your abundance.An increadable amount of wisdom has been posted here.

Tithing isn’t the problem. It is the debt. God wants us to not be in debt. When we are, we are to pay it. Jesus taught that if you go to the temple and realize that your brother has a greivance (debt) against you; then leave the sacrifice and settle the greivance. When the issue is settled, return to complete your sacrifice. He also taught that if someone comes to claim your coat for payment, give him your shirt as well. In other words, don’t allow some one to accuse you of woeing them.

Ultimately, God wants to bless us. We have debt, because we have acted against his blessing and pledged our money to every vendor of wim and whimsey.

I would say that being able to tithe is the ultimate challenge to your financial prowess. If you are living within your financial means, you should be able to save 10%, tithe 10% and waist 10%. If you can’t, you are probably choking on debt.

Yes God’s word The Bible says we are to give him our first fruits. The Bible says it is to go into his store house. Those first fruits are used to aid the widows, orphans, the poor and those serving in the tabernacle. No where does God tell us to build buildings for Him. He was happy in a tent, but allowed His people to build the temple when thye wanted to be like other nations. (An early example of keeping up with the Smith’s and Jones’)

I am always disturbed when congregations go into debt to construct building. A church is not a building. The church is the collection of believers. As Peter described it, “… made with living stones.”

]]>By: Derek Eppersonhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150775
Derek EppersonWed, 08 Oct 2008 02:18:54 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150775First of all, its only tithing if you give 10% (thus the root of the word 'tithe' which means tenth).
Second, is there any consideration to the cost of the home that the person is living in/being foreclosed on, in relation to their overall financial decisions? I don't think I read that anywhere in the article. So are we to think that a person should not give at all when we are living in a house that they may or may not be able to afford in the first place?
Last, I believe that combined with WISE financial decisions, you can give, live, and thrive.First of all, its only tithing if you give 10% (thus the root of the word ‘tithe’ which means tenth).

Second, is there any consideration to the cost of the home that the person is living in/being foreclosed on, in relation to their overall financial decisions? I don’t think I read that anywhere in the article. So are we to think that a person should not give at all when we are living in a house that they may or may not be able to afford in the first place?

Last, I believe that combined with WISE financial decisions, you can give, live, and thrive.

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]]>By: valhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150320
valFri, 03 Oct 2008 17:31:29 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150320Here's an interesting article from Time magazine that's related to this article.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1847053,00.html?cnn=yesHere’s an interesting article from Time magazine that’s related to this article.

]]>By: KiminLosAngeleshttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150310
KiminLosAngelesFri, 03 Oct 2008 15:52:49 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150310March Hare: I find it interesting that pastor's often quote the verse that you cited to in the New Testament as a basis for Christians to tithe. However, the New Testament reference to having ministers get paid for spreading the Gospel completely contradicts what is taught in the Old Testament regarding tithing and shows why the New Testament should govern the manner in which Christians give.
Ministers often say that they are the same as the Levitical priest who received the tithe (in the OT) and thefore they should receive the tithe today. Assuming that the tithe to the Levitical priest could somehow be analogous to the giving of the tithe to the church today (which I strongly disagree that any church could compare itself to the Holy Levitical Priesthood), why then do ministers disregard the other requirements of the Mosaic Law relating to the tithe to In the Levitical priest. For example, Deuteronomy 18:1-2 states: "The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the Lord made by fire, and his inheritance. Therefore, shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the Lord is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.
In particular, the Levitical Priest were not to own property. The Bible says,
Remember that the priest and all the other members of the Levite tribe will not be given property like the other tribes. So the priest and the Levites are to be supported by the sacrifices brought to the alter of the Lord and by the other offerings the people bring to him. They don’t need to own property, for the Lord is their property. That is what He promised them.”
Certainly, many of these ministers with their mega churches, mega homes, jets, bentleys and other fancy cars don't follow this part of the commandment relating to the tithe. What is the Biblical basis for disregarding this part of the law with respect to the so-called tithe?March Hare: I find it interesting that pastor’s often quote the verse that you cited to in the New Testament as a basis for Christians to tithe. However, the New Testament reference to having ministers get paid for spreading the Gospel completely contradicts what is taught in the Old Testament regarding tithing and shows why the New Testament should govern the manner in which Christians give.

Ministers often say that they are the same as the Levitical priest who received the tithe (in the OT) and thefore they should receive the tithe today. Assuming that the tithe to the Levitical priest could somehow be analogous to the giving of the tithe to the church today (which I strongly disagree that any church could compare itself to the Holy Levitical Priesthood), why then do ministers disregard the other requirements of the Mosaic Law relating to the tithe to In the Levitical priest. For example, Deuteronomy 18:1-2 states: “The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the Lord made by fire, and his inheritance. Therefore, shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the Lord is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.

In particular, the Levitical Priest were not to own property. The Bible says,
Remember that the priest and all the other members of the Levite tribe will not be given property like the other tribes. So the priest and the Levites are to be supported by the sacrifices brought to the alter of the Lord and by the other offerings the people bring to him. They don’t need to own property, for the Lord is their property. That is what He promised them.”

Certainly, many of these ministers with their mega churches, mega homes, jets, bentleys and other fancy cars don’t follow this part of the commandment relating to the tithe. What is the Biblical basis for disregarding this part of the law with respect to the so-called tithe?

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]]>By: Bethhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150305
BethFri, 03 Oct 2008 15:29:10 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150305Good grief! People are still commenting on this :)
One of the difficulties in reading and interpreting the Bible is that it was written (or rather, its parts were written) in a completely different time period where there were different social rules and expectations. (I won't even get into how and when the books of the Bible were selected, translated and published).
What it boils down to is this: We're left with a document that we somehow have to make sense of in our current circumstances. The Bible has been interpreted, misinterpreted and re-interpreted, used and abused perhaps more than any other book. It's no wonder why Christians are so confused, and why their beliefs and actions are so different.
I think the USA Today article is blowing things out of proportion. How widespread an issue is tithing at the cost of losing your home? I haven't heard of a single case in the news here in Canada.Good grief! People are still commenting on this

One of the difficulties in reading and interpreting the Bible is that it was written (or rather, its parts were written) in a completely different time period where there were different social rules and expectations. (I won’t even get into how and when the books of the Bible were selected, translated and published).

What it boils down to is this: We’re left with a document that we somehow have to make sense of in our current circumstances. The Bible has been interpreted, misinterpreted and re-interpreted, used and abused perhaps more than any other book. It’s no wonder why Christians are so confused, and why their beliefs and actions are so different.

I think the USA Today article is blowing things out of proportion. How widespread an issue is tithing at the cost of losing your home? I haven’t heard of a single case in the news here in Canada.

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]]>By: annahttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150295
annaFri, 03 Oct 2008 14:34:03 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150295@ march hare:
No, you don't need to go on. My point was that if you want to say this:
"Jesus came to free people from their sins. Humanity, and as a consequence the earth itself, has been held captive by evil since Adam and Eve left the Garden."
Then just do so.
But as you've acknowledged in the second post, people use their religions to justify both good and bad deeds. In the first, that wasn't stated. My point was that people tend to cherry-pick when using their faith to prove their actions, and by doing so, imply that because their faith has instructed them to do an act, the act must also be good.
This was why the slavery comment was trivial: it was a too-simplistic answer to a complex question, because you ignored the equation people like to make:
my faith = good
my faith tells me to do *something*
*something* = good.
The problem that I have when faith is used for anything, be it slavery to tithing, to what words to use to address the Divine, is not that it involves the supernatural.
My problem is that people are often taught not to question their faith, or their religion (religion here being an organization of a faith.) They take it as a point of fact that the world does or should behave in the way they were told, and if there's evidence to contradict that, the evidence is lacking. Because of this mindset, I think that it becomes very easy to neglect questioning the actions that their religion tells them to do, even when it may contradict the message of their faith.
Posters here have elaborated how, at least in Christianity, the message of faith in Jesus is not addressed by the mosaic laws that required tithing. This is a valid critique, and yet, churches (religion) instruct people to act in a different way than Bible may direct them to do.
The problem, in my opinion, is not that their faith or their religion instructs them to tithe. It's that there's little room for the individual to consider (or reconsider) this request, even when the individual's situation is financially shaky. My issue here is that the question of "is is good just because my religion tells me" is resolutely answered in the most trivial way: "yes" by lack of inquiry.
I have a lot of respect for those who follow their principles, even if it requires huge sacrifices (I respect it even to the point of sacrificing one's life for their views.) But I have no respect for those institutions who direct their members to swallow principles that the members themselves would not have adopted w/o the social and religious pressure of their church. This was the other part missing from your previous comment: potential misuse of religious authority, and the winners/losers in these situations.
If a person in their heart, upon reflection and a clear understanding of their obligations, feels that a percentage of their income goes to the church w/o fail, then I have no critique about that action.
But when someone is coming to it with a troubled heart (regardless of financial situation) and is told that they must do this act or stand against God's plan...I find it very troubling. Speaking only from a Christian framework (I know very little of other faiths,) my understanding is that we come to God freely, and not with our heads under the boot.@ march hare:

No, you don’t need to go on. My point was that if you want to say this:

“Jesus came to free people from their sins. Humanity, and as a consequence the earth itself, has been held captive by evil since Adam and Eve left the Garden.”

Then just do so.

But as you’ve acknowledged in the second post, people use their religions to justify both good and bad deeds. In the first, that wasn’t stated. My point was that people tend to cherry-pick when using their faith to prove their actions, and by doing so, imply that because their faith has instructed them to do an act, the act must also be good.

This was why the slavery comment was trivial: it was a too-simplistic answer to a complex question, because you ignored the equation people like to make:

The problem that I have when faith is used for anything, be it slavery to tithing, to what words to use to address the Divine, is not that it involves the supernatural.

My problem is that people are often taught not to question their faith, or their religion (religion here being an organization of a faith.) They take it as a point of fact that the world does or should behave in the way they were told, and if there’s evidence to contradict that, the evidence is lacking. Because of this mindset, I think that it becomes very easy to neglect questioning the actions that their religion tells them to do, even when it may contradict the message of their faith.

Posters here have elaborated how, at least in Christianity, the message of faith in Jesus is not addressed by the mosaic laws that required tithing. This is a valid critique, and yet, churches (religion) instruct people to act in a different way than Bible may direct them to do.

The problem, in my opinion, is not that their faith or their religion instructs them to tithe. It’s that there’s little room for the individual to consider (or reconsider) this request, even when the individual’s situation is financially shaky. My issue here is that the question of “is is good just because my religion tells me” is resolutely answered in the most trivial way: “yes” by lack of inquiry.

I have a lot of respect for those who follow their principles, even if it requires huge sacrifices (I respect it even to the point of sacrificing one’s life for their views.) But I have no respect for those institutions who direct their members to swallow principles that the members themselves would not have adopted w/o the social and religious pressure of their church. This was the other part missing from your previous comment: potential misuse of religious authority, and the winners/losers in these situations.

If a person in their heart, upon reflection and a clear understanding of their obligations, feels that a percentage of their income goes to the church w/o fail, then I have no critique about that action.

But when someone is coming to it with a troubled heart (regardless of financial situation) and is told that they must do this act or stand against God’s plan…I find it very troubling. Speaking only from a Christian framework (I know very little of other faiths,) my understanding is that we come to God freely, and not with our heads under the boot.

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]]>By: March Harehttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150275
March HareFri, 03 Oct 2008 12:54:11 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150275@anna: I debated whether or not to answer this, mostly because it is certainly going off topic. I will attempt to be brief.
I am not trying to demonstrate the morality of the believers. I am trying to highlight what the Bible actually says vs. some common misconceptions.
Yes, people have always used the Bible, the Koran, the Constitution, etc, to justify all sorts of bad and even evil behavior. I am well aware of that, and I won't deny that people have done that in regards to slavery. I am reminding those who are wont to bring it up that there is another side. In essence:
1. Even after re-reading it, I don't see where I trivialized "the issue", which I assume from context to be slavery. Pointing out a historical fact, and it is a fact, does not trivialize it.
2. When people do bring up slavery in the Bible, it is often done in order to trivialize the Bible or some doctrine that someone holds (such as tithing).
3. Peter wrote that people twist Scripture. Even Jesus said many would call him "Lord" but not obey Him. The Bible is not shy about this, so I'm not going to shy away from something just because others have recklessly handled the Bible. A knife can be a tool or it can be a weapon in the wrong hands. The Bible is referred to as a "two-edged sword". In the wrong hands, a lot of people including the wielder can get hurt.
The most important point of all is that critics' arguments about slavery and the Bible really seems strange to me because that really is the message of the Gospel. Jesus came to free people from their sins. Humanity, and as a consequence the earth itself, has been held captive by evil since Adam and Eve left the Garden. Unfortunately, most people seem to get a case of Stockholm Syndrome and identify with the cause of the enemy instead of God. The message of freedom from the bonds of sin should be evident not only to anyone who has studied the NT but also in the story of the Exodus.
Freedom doesn't mean that there aren't laws to obey. I cannot, for instance, shout "Fire!" in a dark theater where there is no fire and then claim it is free speech. There are limits. Just as there is a Law of Gravity, there are spiritual laws as well. When people oppress one another, ignore the poor, they are breaking those spiritual laws. Not just the individual suffers, either. Society is weakened by acts of greed and malice every day. Whole countries suffer when war breaks out. Need I go on?
More on topic: Is tithing one of those principles that is to be obeyed? I think so. Like the rest of Scripture, that doesn't mean that it hasn't been abused by greedy individuals, so I think it is important to search out how your money is being used. "Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel" (1Co 9:14). If a church is not preaching the Gospel, then as a Christian, I will find somewhere else to give my money. If a church is not helping the poor (Gal 2:10), I will find somewhere else to give my money.@anna: I debated whether or not to answer this, mostly because it is certainly going off topic. I will attempt to be brief.

I am not trying to demonstrate the morality of the believers. I am trying to highlight what the Bible actually says vs. some common misconceptions.

Yes, people have always used the Bible, the Koran, the Constitution, etc, to justify all sorts of bad and even evil behavior. I am well aware of that, and I won’t deny that people have done that in regards to slavery. I am reminding those who are wont to bring it up that there is another side. In essence:

1. Even after re-reading it, I don’t see where I trivialized “the issue”, which I assume from context to be slavery. Pointing out a historical fact, and it is a fact, does not trivialize it.

2. When people do bring up slavery in the Bible, it is often done in order to trivialize the Bible or some doctrine that someone holds (such as tithing).

3. Peter wrote that people twist Scripture. Even Jesus said many would call him “Lord” but not obey Him. The Bible is not shy about this, so I’m not going to shy away from something just because others have recklessly handled the Bible. A knife can be a tool or it can be a weapon in the wrong hands. The Bible is referred to as a “two-edged sword”. In the wrong hands, a lot of people including the wielder can get hurt.

The most important point of all is that critics’ arguments about slavery and the Bible really seems strange to me because that really is the message of the Gospel. Jesus came to free people from their sins. Humanity, and as a consequence the earth itself, has been held captive by evil since Adam and Eve left the Garden. Unfortunately, most people seem to get a case of Stockholm Syndrome and identify with the cause of the enemy instead of God. The message of freedom from the bonds of sin should be evident not only to anyone who has studied the NT but also in the story of the Exodus.

Freedom doesn’t mean that there aren’t laws to obey. I cannot, for instance, shout “Fire!” in a dark theater where there is no fire and then claim it is free speech. There are limits. Just as there is a Law of Gravity, there are spiritual laws as well. When people oppress one another, ignore the poor, they are breaking those spiritual laws. Not just the individual suffers, either. Society is weakened by acts of greed and malice every day. Whole countries suffer when war breaks out. Need I go on?

More on topic: Is tithing one of those principles that is to be obeyed? I think so. Like the rest of Scripture, that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been abused by greedy individuals, so I think it is important to search out how your money is being used. “Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel” (1Co 9:14). If a church is not preaching the Gospel, then as a Christian, I will find somewhere else to give my money. If a church is not helping the poor (Gal 2:10), I will find somewhere else to give my money.

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]]>By: annahttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150194
annaThu, 02 Oct 2008 19:24:06 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150194@MarchHare:
"It’s especially amusing since the vast majority of white people who aided slaves in the Underground Railroad and tried to pass legislation against slavery were Christians who used the Bible as the framework for their arguments that all races were created in the image of God."
Be careful with that...the majority of people who owned slaves were also Christians, and used the bible as a framework for their arguments that some races were inferior to others, and that it was acceptable to deprive others of their liberties (especially the "heathen" non-Christians.) It was also used by Christians not too long ago (and even still, depending on where you are) to justify that the races should be separated and that integration was therefore against God's plan.
So be careful when using slavery/abolition to demonstrate the morality of believers. It trivializes the issue and neglects the truth that the Bible has been used as tool for evil aims as well as the good.@MarchHare:

“It’s especially amusing since the vast majority of white people who aided slaves in the Underground Railroad and tried to pass legislation against slavery were Christians who used the Bible as the framework for their arguments that all races were created in the image of God.”

Be careful with that…the majority of people who owned slaves were also Christians, and used the bible as a framework for their arguments that some races were inferior to others, and that it was acceptable to deprive others of their liberties (especially the “heathen” non-Christians.) It was also used by Christians not too long ago (and even still, depending on where you are) to justify that the races should be separated and that integration was therefore against God’s plan.

So be careful when using slavery/abolition to demonstrate the morality of believers. It trivializes the issue and neglects the truth that the Bible has been used as tool for evil aims as well as the good.

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]]>By: March Harehttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150180
March HareThu, 02 Oct 2008 18:08:07 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150180@michecox: I guess I just have to answer this one, as it seems that any time any Biblical discussions come up with nonbelievers, the issue of slavery is inevitably brought up. It's especially amusing since the vast majority of white people who aided slaves in the Underground Railroad and tried to pass legislation against slavery were Christians who used the Bible as the framework for their arguments that all races were created in the image of God.
The short answer is that slavery in ancient Israel was generally one of two types, but it was not of the sort or scale of what happened in this country. While I'm sure that some did mistreat slaves that were captured during warfare, even slaves were permitted certain rights under OT law. For instance, if a slave ran from his or her master, you were not permitted to capture the slave and force him or her to return. It is important to remember that God laid down laws oftentimes because He knew the hardness of peoples' hearts. Christ said Moses permitted divorce. In ancient warfare, it was usually better to be captured alive than to be killed. [We in our modern societies often truly don't understand war and all of its horrors. We have sanitized it.]
However, most slaves in Israel were not even of that variety. Most sold themselves as indentured servants, usually from some type of financial mismanagement, but there could have been other reasons as well. The lesson, to me, shows you can be faithful in all other aspects, but if you are not financially prudent, you still have to face the consequences.
Maybe your other points were Providential, though :) Do you realize that our bankruptcy laws were patterned after the seven year cycle you mention? That's why you cannot declare bankruptcy more than once in seven years. Think of it, though. If we had a Year of Jubilee like Israel did (or, rather were supposed to), then it would rectify a lot of the problems that have accumulated in our economy. It has to be better than what we are going through right now, and it certainly keeps us from passing our mistakes on for generations unending.
As far as mixing seeds and breeding mules, our experimentation in various areas of agriculture have often had disastrous results. Of course, those mistakes are likely to be nothing compared to what will be unleashed when someone makes a mistake with some of this GMO food! Why do we always think we can "improve" upon nature?
Actually, there is a web page I found that addresses the seeds and breeding of animals, and it has a tie-in to tithing. Paul uses examples from the OT to make his points, and that includes that he has the "right" to eat and drink. Now, if he has this "right", then where did it come from if not from a tithe? An offering may or may not be made, but a tithe would be certain. See: http://www.godslawislove.org/leviticus19verse19.htm@michecox: I guess I just have to answer this one, as it seems that any time any Biblical discussions come up with nonbelievers, the issue of slavery is inevitably brought up. It’s especially amusing since the vast majority of white people who aided slaves in the Underground Railroad and tried to pass legislation against slavery were Christians who used the Bible as the framework for their arguments that all races were created in the image of God.

The short answer is that slavery in ancient Israel was generally one of two types, but it was not of the sort or scale of what happened in this country. While I’m sure that some did mistreat slaves that were captured during warfare, even slaves were permitted certain rights under OT law. For instance, if a slave ran from his or her master, you were not permitted to capture the slave and force him or her to return. It is important to remember that God laid down laws oftentimes because He knew the hardness of peoples’ hearts. Christ said Moses permitted divorce. In ancient warfare, it was usually better to be captured alive than to be killed. [We in our modern societies often truly don't understand war and all of its horrors. We have sanitized it.]

However, most slaves in Israel were not even of that variety. Most sold themselves as indentured servants, usually from some type of financial mismanagement, but there could have been other reasons as well. The lesson, to me, shows you can be faithful in all other aspects, but if you are not financially prudent, you still have to face the consequences.

Maybe your other points were Providential, though Do you realize that our bankruptcy laws were patterned after the seven year cycle you mention? That’s why you cannot declare bankruptcy more than once in seven years. Think of it, though. If we had a Year of Jubilee like Israel did (or, rather were supposed to), then it would rectify a lot of the problems that have accumulated in our economy. It has to be better than what we are going through right now, and it certainly keeps us from passing our mistakes on for generations unending.

As far as mixing seeds and breeding mules, our experimentation in various areas of agriculture have often had disastrous results. Of course, those mistakes are likely to be nothing compared to what will be unleashed when someone makes a mistake with some of this GMO food! Why do we always think we can “improve” upon nature?

Actually, there is a web page I found that addresses the seeds and breeding of animals, and it has a tie-in to tithing. Paul uses examples from the OT to make his points, and that includes that he has the “right” to eat and drink. Now, if he has this “right”, then where did it come from if not from a tithe? An offering may or may not be made, but a tithe would be certain. See: http://www.godslawislove.org/leviticus19verse19.htm

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]]>By: KimBhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150153
KimBThu, 02 Oct 2008 15:35:48 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150153Wow! I think some people may be unaware of how a few poor choices combined with difficult times and unexpected circumstances can lead to financial failure/disaster in such a short period of time.
I looked at this woman's mortgage payment and thought, "what do you buy for $500/month?" Then I noted her $200/mo. tithe and was shocked that her income is so small. At that level of income it only takes a couple of missteps or a disastrous car repair, an accident and unexpected fall leading to medical bills, combined with rising gas and food prices to destroy one's ability to meet obligations which were taken prudently and made good sense at the time they were taken. Also, if further posts are accurate that her dilemma came about by a child's failure to pay the mortgage that she had gotten her mother to sign for--SHAME on the daughter. Haven't we all known older people who were easily shamed, guilted or manipulated into "helping" their greedy, conniving and unscrupulous children or grandchildren?
The tithe is a separate issue, it seems to me. Many people have $200 worth of expenses that another person would find unjustified because they do not meet with their own personal goals and ideals.
For me, having some physical disabilities means that I have to spend money on people performing tasks that most people would do themselves to reserve my energy for work. I do not cook every meal that I eat, I do not perform all my own yard work, or perform my own home repairs. That is a choice which makes sense in MY budget because of my physical limitations. For most people those things would be the most egregious extravagance.
There are certain things we do as a matter of conscience and one should not be required to go against their own conscience, even if it is to their own financial detriment. Tithing is a spiritual and financial discipline. It is an acknowledgement among people of faith that their provision is from God as the ultimate source, though he may use your job or other means as the instrument of that provision.
It seems that many people have decided that this predicament is because of foolish choices on this woman's part. In her individual circumstances there may be things which the most rational and prudent person would not have done. I respect her for making a decision in align with her conscience, even if some of her previous choices were foolish.
I'm glad to know there are so many people out there in the blogosphere who have never made foolish choices that have brought them grief. If only I could say the same. The difference is that at my stage of life I have many years to work off the consequences of my own foolishness.Wow! I think some people may be unaware of how a few poor choices combined with difficult times and unexpected circumstances can lead to financial failure/disaster in such a short period of time.

I looked at this woman’s mortgage payment and thought, “what do you buy for $500/month?” Then I noted her $200/mo. tithe and was shocked that her income is so small. At that level of income it only takes a couple of missteps or a disastrous car repair, an accident and unexpected fall leading to medical bills, combined with rising gas and food prices to destroy one’s ability to meet obligations which were taken prudently and made good sense at the time they were taken. Also, if further posts are accurate that her dilemma came about by a child’s failure to pay the mortgage that she had gotten her mother to sign for–SHAME on the daughter. Haven’t we all known older people who were easily shamed, guilted or manipulated into “helping” their greedy, conniving and unscrupulous children or grandchildren?

The tithe is a separate issue, it seems to me. Many people have $200 worth of expenses that another person would find unjustified because they do not meet with their own personal goals and ideals.

For me, having some physical disabilities means that I have to spend money on people performing tasks that most people would do themselves to reserve my energy for work. I do not cook every meal that I eat, I do not perform all my own yard work, or perform my own home repairs. That is a choice which makes sense in MY budget because of my physical limitations. For most people those things would be the most egregious extravagance.

There are certain things we do as a matter of conscience and one should not be required to go against their own conscience, even if it is to their own financial detriment. Tithing is a spiritual and financial discipline. It is an acknowledgement among people of faith that their provision is from God as the ultimate source, though he may use your job or other means as the instrument of that provision.

It seems that many people have decided that this predicament is because of foolish choices on this woman’s part. In her individual circumstances there may be things which the most rational and prudent person would not have done. I respect her for making a decision in align with her conscience, even if some of her previous choices were foolish.

I’m glad to know there are so many people out there in the blogosphere who have never made foolish choices that have brought them grief. If only I could say the same. The difference is that at my stage of life I have many years to work off the consequences of my own foolishness.

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]]>By: A.B.http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150082
A.B.Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:05:53 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150082Noticed this has been going on for a while so I hope someone reads this. :-) As a matter of disclosure I do belong to an organized religion but one that believes you should give what you can, not a tithe.
I think it is interesting that the widow's mite was brought up, technically she gave 100%, and the illustration was meant to show us that we should give from our hearts whether to God or charity. It seems that tithing in some way defeats that purpose as people are told to give a specific amount because they have too.
Something that bothered me was when Bill said "Letting it(their home) go into foreclosure is indeed fulfilling their obligation - borrowers are obliged to continue to pay the mortgage, OR let the lender take possession of the house."
I think people must be joking if they think foreclosure is any real fulfillment of their obligations, especially with sliding values. It is a consequence of not fulfilling their obligations. If you are following the Bible which says let your yes mean yes and your no mean no, at what point is it okay to dismiss a promise if you have any other choice. Borrowers are obliged to pay the mortgage for as long as they have the means and then suffer the consequences of their actions.
Many religions that have tithing do acknowledge that their parishioners fall on hard times and request volunteer service instead of tithing. Those who are homeless or have literally nothing should not be made to feel less because they can't give anything except their time and heart.
I do think it's sad that some people seem to feel that God won't love them if they can't tithe. So much for belief in love and undeserved kindness.
J.D., as far as charity goes it is difficult to know what to do sometimes. I am a firm believer in "charity begins at home" and want to make sure that my family and adopted family (friends) are doing well. As a possible for you: I have an airline miles reward card that matches a percentage of my miles for donation to a charity. I pick one that flies families to needed medical care. You should be able to find a no annual fee card that supports your favorite charity through a matching percentage of your purchases, and it might get you excited about giving a little more. And I trust you certainly know the smart way to use cards. :-)
I also try to click on sites like http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com and when I buy online buy from organizations who support my favorite charities.Noticed this has been going on for a while so I hope someone reads this. As a matter of disclosure I do belong to an organized religion but one that believes you should give what you can, not a tithe.

I think it is interesting that the widow’s mite was brought up, technically she gave 100%, and the illustration was meant to show us that we should give from our hearts whether to God or charity. It seems that tithing in some way defeats that purpose as people are told to give a specific amount because they have too.

Something that bothered me was when Bill said “Letting it(their home) go into foreclosure is indeed fulfilling their obligation – borrowers are obliged to continue to pay the mortgage, OR let the lender take possession of the house.”

I think people must be joking if they think foreclosure is any real fulfillment of their obligations, especially with sliding values. It is a consequence of not fulfilling their obligations. If you are following the Bible which says let your yes mean yes and your no mean no, at what point is it okay to dismiss a promise if you have any other choice. Borrowers are obliged to pay the mortgage for as long as they have the means and then suffer the consequences of their actions.

Many religions that have tithing do acknowledge that their parishioners fall on hard times and request volunteer service instead of tithing. Those who are homeless or have literally nothing should not be made to feel less because they can’t give anything except their time and heart.

I do think it’s sad that some people seem to feel that God won’t love them if they can’t tithe. So much for belief in love and undeserved kindness.

J.D., as far as charity goes it is difficult to know what to do sometimes. I am a firm believer in “charity begins at home” and want to make sure that my family and adopted family (friends) are doing well. As a possible for you: I have an airline miles reward card that matches a percentage of my miles for donation to a charity. I pick one that flies families to needed medical care. You should be able to find a no annual fee card that supports your favorite charity through a matching percentage of your purchases, and it might get you excited about giving a little more. And I trust you certainly know the smart way to use cards.
I also try to click on sites like http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com and when I buy online buy from organizations who support my favorite charities.

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]]>By: Georgia Mhttp://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/09/28/could-tithing-lead-some-americans-to-lose-their-homes/comment-page-4/#comment-150081
Georgia MThu, 02 Oct 2008 02:04:53 +0000http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=2083#comment-150081My husband and I always felt that if you had something to give, you were not poor. We did tithe most of our life and also more when we could. I am beginning to up mine again. I am retired and do not have all the millions that people say are required to retire comfortably. But I feel rich.
As for getting rich when tithing, I think of two sets of individuals. I can't remember either's names, but one wrote a book about it and another family just did it. They all gave 90% of their income to the Lord. They tithed as they went, even during the hard times and when good times came, they just kept upping the %. As one man said, "You can only wear one pair of pants at a time. You can only drive one car at a time. You can only live in one home at a time. Therefore, all the extras aren't necessary."
Both men came up with different ideas on how to earn money. One, back in the 40's or 50's learned to retract the silver from the photographic process and resell it. He even set up a legal foundation where the money was to go to God and a panel would decide which place it would help best.
The other man and his brother came up with a design for small construction equipment that could be used reasonably priced and sent overseas. I think his name was Shields and he was from Iowa. So you can get rich and tithe, a lot.My husband and I always felt that if you had something to give, you were not poor. We did tithe most of our life and also more when we could. I am beginning to up mine again. I am retired and do not have all the millions that people say are required to retire comfortably. But I feel rich.

As for getting rich when tithing, I think of two sets of individuals. I can’t remember either’s names, but one wrote a book about it and another family just did it. They all gave 90% of their income to the Lord. They tithed as they went, even during the hard times and when good times came, they just kept upping the %. As one man said, “You can only wear one pair of pants at a time. You can only drive one car at a time. You can only live in one home at a time. Therefore, all the extras aren’t necessary.”

Both men came up with different ideas on how to earn money. One, back in the 40′s or 50′s learned to retract the silver from the photographic process and resell it. He even set up a legal foundation where the money was to go to God and a panel would decide which place it would help best.

The other man and his brother came up with a design for small construction equipment that could be used reasonably priced and sent overseas. I think his name was Shields and he was from Iowa. So you can get rich and tithe, a lot.