TFG Patriot Bait Boat Modifications

I grabbed the TFG Patriot (also known as the Orca2 Pondskater) from Ebay last year. I really liked the overall design but especially the bait dropping mechanism, its totally different to the normal hopper style.

First thing I noticed was the rear door and paddle had been glued together as the plastic bead stop/arm had been snapped off. The first picture below is what it should have looked like. The original design is quite simple, the servo is attached to the back door latch via a cable, on this cable just below the white arm of the bait paddle is a bead. The first few mm of movement on the wire unlatches the back door. When the bead hits the arm the paddle rotates,opens the door and scoops out the bait.

The second picture is the new hinge pin (courtesy of Marks Model Bits) with a small eye that screws into it, this is probably stronger than the original plastic arm and has the added benefit of preventing the hinge pin from sliding out if the boat is laid on its side. In the third picture below you can see the new eye in place with the bead just below it. Finally we have the upgraded top servo which controls the door and bait paddle. The wire is 100lb trace wire and I have simply crimped a loop, and then attached to both the servo and bottom latch with small split rings.

Original arm & bead

New hinge pin & eye

New hinge & eye fitted

The top servo and wire

New door cable

Having sorted the bait dropping, the next job was the electronics. The plan was simple, rip everything out an replace it all. First off I purchased a 2.4Ghz upgrade kit for my old Focus 6 transmitter, along with an 8 channel receiver. The upgrade was simple, I just has to remove the original TX board and hook up the new one. While I was at it, I replaced the top channel 6 pot for a toggle switch to operate the bait dropper. This still left me with another switched channel which I wanted to use to remotely switch on the headlight.

New 2.4Ghz module

Close up of connections

Next job was a decent speed controller, after a bit of research Action Electronics came up highly recommended, they also had the following suggested wiring diagram specifically for the Patriot/Orca bait boat.

Action Wiring Diagram

I went for the P80 Condor speed controller and the P95 fuse board. I also wanted to use a separate receiver battery pack, and decided that I would use this to switch on the main 6v supply via a relay. This meant I could use a smaller main on/off switch as the main 6v current wouldn’t be running through it, and I only needed one single pole switch.

My wiring diagram

Next up I wanted a better battery level indicator and a remote switch for the headlight. The switch I found here by K. Bromham. I modified it slightly as I didn’t need the optoisolation, and just used a suitable transistor for the load of the front LED. The battery monitor I found at picprojects, I made some slight modifications so I could use a RGB LED and use it on 6v. The RGB LED is white when the battery is 100%, blue from 99% to 60%, pink from 59% to 25%, and red below 25%. I mounted both the RC switch and battery monitor on a single piece of stripboard, and fitted all the electronics inside a single ABS box. I added various connectors for all the leads/servos and a small RX battery monitor which I picked up cheap on Ebay. It’s probably not the most ideal setup, as I think the ESC should be as far away from the receiver as possible, but so far it hasn’t caused any interference problems. The boat also has limited space and I was trying to keep things as neat as possible.

RC switch schematic

Battery level schematic

Vero board layout

Vero board copper

Electronics

Power & fuses

New battery tray

Reed switch & magnet

I replaced all the LEDs whilst I was at it and came up with a better indication of a successful bait drop. In the original design the indicator LEDs just latched as soon as the channel switch had been activated, regardless of whether the door actually opened or the bait was dropped. My solution is a small reed switch glued to the inside of the hull, right next to the rear door, with a small magnet glued to the paddle. Now the indicator lights only come on if the paddle moves flush with the rear door, meaning that the door opening and bait drop was successful. They also go off again when the door is closed, meaning less light pollution at night. Here’s a quick video of it in action.

The last job was to sort out the motor and coupling, this proved to be the trickiest part of the rebuild. Electric motors are a real minefield, there are hundreds of motors with similar numbers but totally different specifications. The original setup/motor produced 6800 RPM @ 2.2a on the bench, but I have no idea how it performed in the water as at the time I didn’t have the elogger. I decided to replace the motor for a 550S, mainly because I was having alignment problems with the new coupling. The 550s gave great results on the bench but didn’t seem to translate on the water. This is where the Eagle Tree eLogger came in handy. By connecting the beauty up to the ESC and adding the RPM and temperature sensors, I could see exactly what was going on in the water. It was a real eye opener, on the bench the electronics were drawing only 0.9a, and the prop was spinning at 5600 RPM.) In the water the current maxed out at 10.20a, but averaged about 7a. (amazing that it didn’t blow the 10a fuse) The speed was slow as the motor reached a mere 2500 RPM max, and after 20 minutes running the motor had reached 90°c (Ouch!). Clearly I needed to either change the motor or the propeller or both.

I decided to try the original motor again, and after making the coupling shorter I managed to get the alignment correct. This was drawing about 1.6a and spinning at 6800 RPM on the bench. Down at the local pond the first session ended after 2 minutes with the boat dead in the water. Fortunately I’d had the sense to run it round the outside close to the edge and managed to retrieve it, without getting wet. A quick look told me the 10a motor fuse had blown. (thats probably the reason why Action have a 15a fuse in their diagram ;-)) After popping in a higher rated fuse I ran it about for 15 minutes, with no issues. Everything worked OK the speed was much better than the 550s motor, and was probably a bit better at low throttle, I guess due to the fact the 755 has five poles. Once I got back to the workshop I downloaded the data from the elogger and you can see the results in the first chart below. The current maxed out at a whopping 14.5a and the RPM reached about 3000. After 15 minutes the temp was 85°c. I decided to downsize the prop to a 3 bladed 40mm brass one. Took it back to the pond and ran it around for 15 minutes again. Once again the data was downloaded and the second graph below was produced. Overall much better, current averaging about 8a, although I think I am still going to use a 15a fuse, temps down below 60°c, and RMP up to 4500. The speed was possibly slightly better than with the 50mm prop, although it’s hard to tell without seeing two boats side by side.

Motor & coupling

755 Motor 50mm Prop

755 Motor 40mm Prop

I guess the real proof will be when the boat is used at the lake, so far only the new door cable have been tested and it worked very well, even with wet baits like party blend. I will update this post as and when I get some more use out of it. The next plan is to mount the Go Pro camera on the boat.

Finally I must say a big thanks to Ian AKA BigYellowCroc at the Carp forums, who sent me some pictures of his own mods, and the helpful folks over at the ModelBoatMayhem forums.

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46 thoughts on “TFG Patriot Bait Boat Modifications”

Hi, I have a patriot boat which up untill recently was working fine after I sorted out the hopper mechanism. It has now just stopped working totally, I’ve got no power to anything on the boat.
This loss of power happened whilst sending it out to drop a bait. The charger i use is the type which can be switched from 6v to 12v and the battery in the boat when it stopped working had be charged at 12v with out me realising. Could this have caused the problem? I have got a new battery in the boat but it still doesn’t work. Have you still got your old electronics as I would be interested in
these as I feel the upgrade might be a bit beyond
me.
Any advice/help in the matter would be much appreciated.

To be honest I would have thought charging the battery at 12v would have destroyed the battery only. Unless it was charged in situe, with the electronics connected, in which case it would probably fry both the battery and electronics.

I do still have the original electronics for mine, although someone else was interested in them also (see post under CNC Adventures)

When I get home from work today, I will have a look and see what I have, then probably the fairest way is for you both to make me an offer for it.

I tried to open it, but it was glued pretty tight. It would have been much easier to work if I could have split it in 2. In the end I left it in one piece, it was fiddly but I managed to do all the work, including replacing all LEDs.

Yes the hinge pin was made specifically for me. Everything is fitted to the boat, so difficult to measure exactly without pulling it apart but here is my original email to mark…

“All I need is a stainless bar 160mm long 5mm dia, with a 2mm threaded hole exactly half way along. Then I need an eye with 10mm of 2mm thread to screw into the bar, the eye part can be up to 7mm dia, but smaller may be better. The centre hole of the eye only needs to be 2-3mm, enough for the wire to fit through. The wire is only 1mm dia.”

Hi Les,
Many thanks for that, I will contact them for a price. My next question is, as the boat is totally dead, can the rear door be opened manually. I don’t want to appear dense, but it’s obvious to me that this boat has been abused in the past, I don’t want to abuse it further. For instance, can you believe that someone would package a boat for delivery by courier with an unsecured, but still connected battery inside it???? Can you imagine the damage this has caused???? I ask you !!!
Thanks again,
Mark.

Those batteries are pretty heavy, I would imagine in the inside is a right old mess.

As for the back door, if you pull the wire upwards it should release the catch and allow you to open the back door. If not just slide out the old hinge bar, you should be able to push it out with a screwdriver.

Hi Les,
Many thanks for that, I’ve managed to open it. More bad news though. I have now discovered that the motor and prop shaft are connected via a thin metal ring. Surely there should be a connecting sleeve with two thin shear pins to hold it in place. If so, any suggestions as to where I might source these. Sorry to trouble you once again.
Thanks,
Mark.

The metal ring is the standard fitting. I replaced mine with a flexible coupling. I used the inserts from here and instead of the universal joint I used a bit of flexible hose. (See the first pic in the last set of 3 above)

Hi Les,
Thanks for that, I can see in my head exactly what you’ve done for the flexible joint now. As I seem to have mislaid my verniers, do you remember the motor shaft diameter?
Once again, many thanks.

Hi Les,
Back again, I’m afraid. As I’ve removed all the electronics etc, i’ve noticed that there is not one single fuse in sight. According to Action Electronics (thankyou) website it shows two fuses, an in line 20A and what looks like a P95 fuse board. All I can see by the motor is a small board covered in heat shrink tubing. Is the P95 a suggested modification. If so, do I insert this between the power supply and the existing board??
If you would prefer, you can email me direct on mrb5424@hotmail.co.uk.

Thanks bought one can’t believe how cheap they are can I was wondering I’ve not had the boat long as this was my dads don’t suppose and one has any instructions I know how to work it ok just like to read in dept I was gonna attach a Bty volt monitor to one of the motors so when I turn the power on the volt meter tells me what the battery life is any tips would be very helpful thanks

mate your a star im not to cleaver when it to come to rc stuff this is the first for me ive got the hinge pin and eye order from where you got yours mine aint broke just not keen on the plastic one ive also bought a led battery monitor and a servo y cable im hoping if I just plug both the new servo ive ordered and the led battery monitor in it will work you have been very help full thanks alot

The LED battery monitor may or may not work, depending on what type you have. Mine is like this and can be switched between 4.8v & 6v. I have a separate receiver battery in mine now so I just use the monitor on 4.8v. Because the original electronics runs from 6v, it may have a voltage regulator which steps it down from 6v for the rc circuit. If your battery monitor does 6v too, then just put it inline with the navigation LEDs, which I think were Futaba connectors.

As I just helped Mark out with his Patriot it refreshed my memory on the original wiring. There are 2 spare Futaba style connectors on the right hand side of the electronics box. These I think are both switched 6v, so if you plug a 6v battery monitor into one of those it should work a treat.

hi Les, sorry to bother you i have a tf gear bait boat the same as this one and i let a mate borrow it and he accidentally put the battery connections on the wrong way round! its melted parts of a circuit board and im hoping to replace it, the problem i have is im not sure which one it is! thee board itself is in the black ‘click’ box inside the boat, its the main one the battery plugs into and the other two circuit boards have wiring to it. It has 2 large ‘chips’ on the board wrapped up in masking tape, the other main circuit board that is ok has the ‘channel clip reviver ‘ in it. Can you help identify the board?? Hope you can help! many thanks Paul

The whole black box is sold as one unit, but I think there were 2 versions. I am not sure what version 1 is like, but version 2 has a white 4 pin connector on the front, 2 6 pin (from memory) gold connectors on the back and the crystal plugs in one side.

Try to contact TFG, they might have some spares.(I believe Mark Baldwin who posted a few comments managed to get one late last year)

Hi Les,I have just purchased an orca pond skater, like new however I have just been admiring your work and was wondering would you consider upgrading my boat for me for an agreed price. Obviously if there were extras I would also be happy to pay. Hoping and Praying,RegardsDominic

To be honest, it’s not something I would want to do for someone else. It’s probably not worth doing unless you can do it yourself or have a buddy that will do the labour cheap or free.

It’s not a five minute job and because of the way the receiver is combined with the other electronics, it means a major surgery, and possibly expense. Mine wasn’t quite so bad as I had the transmitter already. You would need a new 3 channel 2.4ghz transmitter and receiver to start with. (About £60 on Ebay)

Apart from that, even after all this time I still have used mine in the real world. I have tested it on a local pond, but because the lake I have started fishing doesn’t allow bait boats, I haven’t used it on a fishing session. This also means that the design isn’t really proven as it hasn’t had sufficient testing. I simply posted the information here to try and help others, as there seemed to be very little info about this great little boat.

Hi Les,Thanks for the quick reply, I understand that it is not economical time wise for you to do this for me.I have no knowledge of electronics, or do I know of any one who does, so if you know of any one else who could do this for me I would be grateful, I know this is not going to be cheap and takes a long time but I am willing to pay what is needed.If not I would be very grateful if you could give me any pointers to help me start this project, and wondered if I could ask you a couple of questions.1)I have already ordered the servo for the bait hopper door, how do you remove the original servo and does it just prise out?2) is it possible to keep the same electrics on the boat and use a remote control that has dual controls, instead of just having one control stick for all directions?3) Can I use the slim line 7.2 V batteries that are sold on E-bay, or will this have an adverse effect over time on the electrics being as the original battery is only 6V?Sorry if I am being a pain, I am just struggling. Kindest RegardsDominic

My boat had already had the door servo replaced and it had been glued in, other people have said the original was held in with double side tape.

As the electronics is using a built in 27mhz system, rather than a standard receiver, I doubt if you could use another transmitter, but I don’t know for sure.

You need large capacity batteries or they won’t last 5 minutes. I use 6V/12ah sealed lead acid batteries and carry a couple of spares.

To be honest, the door is the main thing you need to sort out, which is pretty easy. Next the ring that connects the motor to the propshaft can be replaced with a couple of inserts and a piece of tubing. (This will make it a bit quieter.)

Hi les Just got a chance to use my new P Bait boat at the week end and found that the transmitter is not working the way the paper work has said ie forward is forward but i have reverse is forward
I asume this is some thing simple can you advize

THANKS LES I WILL TRY THIS BUT THE PAPER WORK DOES STATE SWITCHES TO BE IN THE SAME LOCATION ( I DID NOT CHECK ) I WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE TO A MORE UP TO DATE TRANSMITTER CAN YOU TEL ME IF IF A 4 CHANNEL WOULD BE OK

I am not sure to be honest Roger. I am not an expert on RC stuff, but I guess if you can find a 27mhz transmitter it might work. The problem is that the boat uses it’s own electronics rather than a standard receiver.

Hi Les I have been playing with the controls on mt TX and yes chanel 1 switches the direction of the prop but then it switches back all on its own so I have decided to up grade to 2.4ghs I have a 5 chanel tx and tx unit to hand just a couple of questions 1 what is the large lump just before the motor can i dish this or not and what to the 2 conecters at the front of the box do i asume leds and on of switch regards roger

It’s not as simple as just changing the TX & RX. You will need to replace the speed controller as well. Refer to my wiring diagram for more details. As for you questions, from memory I think the ‘large lump’ is the speed controller, but as I don’t have my original electronics any more, I could be wrong. The 2 connectors at the front make the connections to the navigation LEDs, headlight, battery monitor light, door open lights and antenna, as well as switching power to the electronics. This is also why it’s not just a simple upgrade.