Donno...Brown seemed like he was going to be a pretty good player for us for the first 5 games in 2001. Showed a lot of promise and 4.5 sacks in 5 games, on pace for 14, even one touchdown, which I'm trying to remember how and when he scored that.

When he got hurt in the Bears game, it just wasn't the same after that. I stll gold out that Gerard "Big Waste of Money" Warren was the bigger bust.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Triple-S wrote:Donno...Brown seemed like he was going to be a pretty good player for us for the first 5 games in 2001. Showed a lot of promise and 4.5 sacks in 5 games, on pace for 14, even one touchdown, which I'm trying to remember how and when he scored that.

When he got hurt in the Bears game, it just wasn't the same after that. I stll gold out that Gerard "Big Waste of Money" Warren was the bigger bust.

SD:

At #1 overall in the draft , that kid has to set a tone albeit offense or defense .

On defense you have to draft people who want to hurt somebody (not injure or maim ) but fuckin ornery bastards who relish in your pain .

Game changers who will rip out your heart and eat it in front of you before you pass out.

Tampa Bay game sealed the coffin on Miss Brown , Warren Sapp lined up in the backfield ran a lead block and destroyed him and while dancing in the endzone with his panties yelled he's soft he's soft OMG he's a fuckin pussy .

SoulDawg74 wrote:Bowers comes from a southern town of 4000, with one red light , but unabashedly takes pride in that fact , and that he was raised by the entire community.

"Early yearsGrowing up in Alvin, SC, Brown attended Macedonia High School and was an All-American linebacker his senior year. He also contributed on offense by playing tight end. Brown earned Gatorade Player-of-the-Year accolades in his senior year. He played in the East-West Shrine Game. Brown was also an accomplished basketball star playing in the North/South All-Star game. Throughout his high school career, he maintained a 4.0 GPA."

SoulDawg74 wrote:Bowers comes from a southern town of 4000, with one red light , but unabashedly takes pride in that fact , and that he was raised by the entire community.

"Early yearsGrowing up in Alvin, SC, Brown attended Macedonia High School and was an All-American linebacker his senior year. He also contributed on offense by playing tight end. Brown earned Gatorade Player-of-the-Year accolades in his senior year. He played in the East-West Shrine Game. Brown was also an accomplished basketball star playing in the North/South All-Star game. Throughout his high school career, he maintained a 4.0 GPA."

SoulDawg74 wrote:Bowers comes from a southern town of 4000, with one red light , but unabashedly takes pride in that fact , and that he was raised by the entire community.

"Early yearsGrowing up in Alvin, SC, Brown attended Macedonia High School and was an All-American linebacker his senior year. He also contributed on offense by playing tight end. Brown earned Gatorade Player-of-the-Year accolades in his senior year. He played in the East-West Shrine Game. Brown was also an accomplished basketball star playing in the North/South All-Star game. Throughout his high school career, he maintained a 4.0 GPA."

Bowers knows what time it is he can feed his family and make his dead father proud , unlike miss Brown who loved the money but never loved the game.

BTW , even Joe Pa couldn't figuire out Courtney , when he had chances to kill the QB , he'd figuire out a way to lay him down easy

Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.

YMMV.

SoulDawg

SoulDawg

SD, I was an Arrington pimp that year too. I like my D to have a nasty edge to them.

But, I dont think thats the end all and be all to a football player. Merlin Olsen was the nice guy you'd ever meet on and off the field. He'd sack a guy as gentle as he could, help him up and sack him again the next play.

Courtney may have been that way, but he got hurt and was never the same player he showed flashes of being his first year.

SoulDawg74 wrote:Bowers comes from a southern town of 4000, with one red light , but unabashedly takes pride in that fact , and that he was raised by the entire community.

"Early yearsGrowing up in Alvin, SC, Brown attended Macedonia High School and was an All-American linebacker his senior year. He also contributed on offense by playing tight end. Brown earned Gatorade Player-of-the-Year accolades in his senior year. He played in the East-West Shrine Game. Brown was also an accomplished basketball star playing in the North/South All-Star game. Throughout his high school career, he maintained a 4.0 GPA."

Bowers knows what time it is he can feed his family and make his dead father proud , unlike miss Brown who loved the money but never loved the game.

BTW , even Joe Pa couldn't figuire out Courtney , when he had chances to kill the QB , he'd figuire out a way to lay him down easy

Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.

YMMV.

SoulDawg

SoulDawg

SD, I was an Arrington pimp that year too. I like my D to have a nasty edge to them.

But, I dont think thats the end all and be all to a football player. Merlin Olsen was the nice guy you'd ever meet on and off the field. He'd sack a guy as gentle as he could, help him up and sack him again the next play.

Courtney may have been that way, but he got hurt and was never the same player he showed flashes of being his first year.

SD:

Injurie are no excus the ability to stay healthy goes hand and hang with how much talent you bring to the table , and is part of your frade.

Courtney showed up twice a year , in games vs the inbred , where he wanted to show off for his Pa friends .

That and one game vs Chicago that was just crazy .

The rest of the time he was JAG , and #1 overall has to be a star .

looked like Tarzan and played like Jane .

Merlin Olsen , Carl Eller, Bob lilly Bubba Smith and Jim Marshall were all quiet gentleman , but on the field they would tear off your head and hand it to you they set the tone by their play .

Courtney was content to follow not lead by example.

If your chosen to be #1 overall and your content to be just another guy , your a fuckin bust.

SD, my only motivation for posting was you made abig hairy deal out of Bowers background being from a small SC city. Then you contnued your typical after the fact by a decade character assasination of a star - crossed kid who gave his all but for whom it didn't work out in a shitty situation. An exercize I might point out that noone an dthey Momma gives a sewar rat's ass about.

jb wrote:SD, my only motivation for posting was you made abig hairy deal out of Bowers background being from a small SC city. Then you contnued your typical after the fact by a decade character assasination of a star - crossed kid who gave his all but for whom it didn't work out in a shitty situation. An exercize I might point out that noone an dthey Momma gives a sewar rat's ass about.

And they had the almost exact same type of hometown.

I don't know Bowers' knee condistion and neither do you.

SD:

Dareus is the safets pick , butt we need a hard edged end who can get to the QB if we're gonna have any type of defense .

Quinn has standup 34 OLB written all over him IMO ,butt I'd take him in a heart beat as Warren Sapp was all over his skill set ,

Turned me off a little that he wasn't stronger in the bench at 20 reps ,but I didn't factor in how long is arms are .

Lot harder for those type guys to push up the bar , that and not playing last year.

On Brown , never liked him made no bones about it then , and still don't , the leadership qualities you need were never present ,I bemoaned his lack of intensity before he was drafted and said it was a recipe for disaster.,

Would possibly been a star following the lead somewhere else , but i said it was foolish at the time to draft this kid to set a tone for your defense and Arrington would better serve those purposes.

SoulDawg74 wrote:Bowers comes from a southern town of 4000, with one red light , but unabashedly takes pride in that fact , and that he was raised by the entire community.

"Early yearsGrowing up in Alvin, SC, Brown attended Macedonia High School and was an All-American linebacker his senior year. He also contributed on offense by playing tight end. Brown earned Gatorade Player-of-the-Year accolades in his senior year. He played in the East-West Shrine Game. Brown was also an accomplished basketball star playing in the North/South All-Star game. Throughout his high school career, he maintained a 4.0 GPA."

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:SD's boy Mayock has him slipping out of his top 10 after his pro day. This kid's knee, lack of first step, and only one year of production scare me. I avoid him like the plague.

SD:

You got that right , the difference between Quinns 265 and his 280 was baby fat not muscle .

I know his knee was injuried butt there was no excuse for him not to lift , at the combine and again on his pro day.

I was prepared to factor in rust , but ducking the weight pile killed it .

SoulDawg74 wrote:Bowers comes from a southern town of 4000, with one red light , but unabashedly takes pride in that fact , and that he was raised by the entire community.

"Early yearsGrowing up in Alvin, SC, Brown attended Macedonia High School and was an All-American linebacker his senior year. He also contributed on offense by playing tight end. Brown earned Gatorade Player-of-the-Year accolades in his senior year. He played in the East-West Shrine Game. Brown was also an accomplished basketball star playing in the North/South All-Star game. Throughout his high school career, he maintained a 4.0 GPA."

metalhead9x9 wrote:Is he gonna be available for our 2nd pick? Guy's sinking like the Edmund Fitzgerald.

Watch. Ozzie will end up getting Bowers. Because he's Ozzie and that shit always happens for him. Then he'll be all- pro for a decade and Quinn will be off the team in 5 years when the new coach team president Marty Schotenheimer hires goes to a 3 - 4 and he's Kennard Lang for a bad season.

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:I'd be afraid to draft Quinn at 6. Too many questions for a pick the Browns can't whiff.

What questions? Off field or on field?

Off field. Is the question he did the same thing as AJ Green? That the NCAA likes selective enforcement? That what he did taking 2 watches was the same or less than the Tat Pack but since it was UNC he lost a season instead of 5 games? Is it tyhat he had a brain tumor? I imagine he's been MRI's more than Greg Oden's knee up there by NFL teams.

Kid was productive on field in 09 with 11 sacks, 19 tackles for losses and best of all 6 forced fumbles. At his workout he turned in a monster performance. A sub 4.6 with is burst is sick. Thing is, he's no WW. Kid has football skills. Moves. Flexibility.. Kid also isn't done growing, so this whole "tweener" thing is bunk AFAIC. He will get stronger to hold point.

Think about it: Holmgren has always been around teams with one elite pass rusher aquisition. I bet he considers it a core building block of a team. Dean, White, Wistrom. I'm thinking at 6, if the draft is rational and orderly, Quinn will represent BPA and need as much or more than Green.

They all have questions. But if I can get me the potential of a bigger version of Freeney, I do it and don't look back. Get the WR in round 2 and load up on DL, OT and CB's the rest of the draft.

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:I'd be afraid to draft Quinn at 6. Too many questions for a pick the Browns can't whiff.

What questions? Off field or on field?

Off field. Is the question he did the same thing as AJ Green? That the NCAA likes selective enforcement? That what he did taking 2 watches was the same or less than the Tat Pack but since it was UNC he lost a season instead of 5 games? Is it tyhat he had a brain tumor? I imagine he's been MRI's more than Greg Oden's knee up there by NFL teams.

Kid was productive on field in 09 with 11 sacks, 19 tackles for losses and best of all 6 forced fumbles. At his workout he turned in a monster performance. A sub 4.6 with is burst is sick. Thing is, he's no WW. Kid has football skills. Moves. Flexibility.. Kid also isn't done growing, so this whole "tweener" thing is bunk AFAIC. He will get stronger to hold point.

Think about it: Holmgren has always been around teams with one elite pass rusher aquisition. I bet he considers it a core building block of a team. Dean, White, Wistrom. I'm thinking at 6, if the draft is rational and orderly, Quinn will represent BPA and need as much or more than Green.

They all have questions. But if I can get me the potential of a bigger version of Freeney, I do it and don't look back. Get the WR in round 2 and load up on DL, OT and CB's the rest of the draft.

I'm actually more concerned with on-the-field issues.

PFW (or was it Mayock?) stated that, when you look at his 09 production, the stats are misleading. Apparently many of his sacks came on plays when he was unblocked (OLinemen brain farts, defensive schemes). Also, came against weaker competition. I'm not nutty enough to break down the kid's film, so I will take what respected analysts say and run with it.

My main cause for concern is the one-year wonder thing...maybe I'm being overly paranoid, but its the same thing that gives me reservations about Fairly and Bowers. If I'm drafting in the top 10, I would have serious reservations about taking a guy that only had one year of production (and is coming off sitting an entire year off). If I had to list a top 5 (for the Browns), it would look like this:

1. Dareus2. Peterson3. Miller4. Jones5. Green6. Quinn

YMMV

I definitely hear you on our need for a pass rushing DE. Quinn may be the guy. But, while you mention the ability to get a receiver later, you say nothing about this being possible the deepest DE draft in the last 10 years. I think we could grab a quality guy in the 2nd at that position as well.

If they take Quinn at 6, I won't be heart broken. But it would leave me a bit uneasy.

I wouldn't start a Tong war over any of your takes. But I do think you can manufacture something of concern on any of these guys. Mayock sounds like he's picking nits at this point. My preference for Quinn is probably a result of a bias against WR's taken that high. I've swung against it as a prefernce the past several years. I just see QB's and O's making the WR rather than the other way around. But like I said, just my bias.

PP? Maybe not. Both the hair and McDoosh have him taken behind us (Frisco) in their latest mocks, FWIW.

The Browns need both QBs taken in the top 5 and Cincy to do something dumb. Lots of talent that can drop our way.

I'd be interested in seeing your top 6.

I'd say this is possible, even likely.

With so much DL talent in this draft, I'd like them to go there with the second pick regardless of who they take in the first round, whether that be Peterson, Quinn, or Green. It looks like you can get a DL with first round talent at the top of the second.

Another thing of interest...Hair and McDoosh both have Cam #1. Should be interesting to see how that plays out, and the consequences for other teams with a QB need (BUF, Zona, Cincy). There's no way 3 QBs get drafted ahead of us...right?

I'm just none-to-keen on getting any d-line in the first round with this current class being so deep.

It just seems like, if we wait till the 2nd round, we'll be able to nab a decent player and one that could contribute. There's always one guy that ends up slipping to the 2nd day and thats how I see it playing out.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Watching this, I'm not seeing a whole lot of moves. He's obviously quick, and can beat college competition around the outside shoulder, but he'll need more than that in the NFL, otherwise he'll end up like our old friend Kam "Pocket Satellite" Wimbley (although Kam did have a decent year in a 4-3 last season).

On this tape, I don't see any bull rushes, no spin moves. That stuff can be taught though. Speed and burst can't.

Received PFW Draft Book in the mail today. Despite the recent Smile-gate with Nawrocki, the publication has, IMO, been the standard in prospect analysis for years. I respect their opinions. Here is their top 15:

You are not posting "film" or "tape". You are posting highlights. The amateur wanna-be draftnicks that fall into the trap of living on you tube see only network feed and highlights.

It mans some level of familiarity, but really, I piss on that as significant evaluation.

The real scouts will watch every single play this kid ever suited up on Saturday, and maybe even some from Friday. They have access the weekend warriors can't conceieve. They will re-loop and watch for every minute detail that only a bona fide professional position coach is qualified to really evaluate.

I know I speak like Janus here when I bitch abou how you and I could have drafted better then the Browns since 99. I contradict myself without mitigation. But in reality, if a scout Heckert believes is qualified is down with Quinn, so am I. If they go in another rational direction on the 28th that isn't a shithead reach at a non-impact position, I'm way cool with that, too. But I'm not gonna be one of those cats -- and not that you are my man -- insisting I watched some you tube or a game or three and I know better. I also don't know that UVA OLT from Paul Ferren, you know? Is that guy a weekly bitch, or was that an accomplishment vs a solid college player?

Second, I don't know that a player needs to be Denny Terrrio at DE. I always thought that burst, strength, leverage, hand placement, flexibility and arm movement (rip, swim, etc) as well as motor were the things that mattered. Dunno that a foot chop or spin or unnecesary moves matter if kid is making plays. Like Coach Wooden used to say, "never mistake activity for achievement". I know that Warren Sapp absolutely smoked kid's jock like as if he was wearing a blue dress in the oval ofice about his football DL fundamentals such as arm moves and developed skill level.

FWIW.

Quinn is ths hit. So is Green. So are darius and peterson. Come 4/28, we're gonna be a better football team.

You are not posting "film" or "tape". You are posting highlights. The amateur wanna-be draftnicks that fall into the trap of living on you tube see only network feed and highlights.

It mans some level of familiarity, but really, I piss on that as significant evaluation.

The real scouts will watch every single play this kid ever suited up on Saturday, and maybe even some from Friday. They have access the weekend warriors can't conceieve. They will re-loop and watch for every minute detail that only a bona fide professional position coach is qualified to really evaluate.

I know I speak like Janus here when I bitch abou how you and I could have drafted better then the Browns since 99. I contradict myself without mitigation. But in reality, if a scout Heckert believes is qualified is down with Quinn, so am I. If they go in another rational direction on the 28th that isn't a shithead reach at a non-impact position, I'm way cool with that, too. But I'm not gonna be one of those cats -- and not that you are my man -- insisting I watched some you tube or a game or three and I know better. I also don't know that UVA OLT from Paul Ferren, you know? Is that guy a weekly bitch, or was that an accomplishment vs a solid college player?

Second, I don't know that a player needs to be Denny Terrrio at DE. I always thought that burst, strength, leverage, hand placement, flexibility and arm movement (rip, swim, etc) as well as motor were the things that mattered. Dunno that a foot chop or spin or unnecesary moves matter if kid is making plays. Like Coach Wooden used to say, "never mistake activity for achievement". I know that Warren Sapp absolutely smoked kid's jock like as if he was wearing a blue dress in the oval ofice about his football DL fundamentals such as arm moves and developed skill level.

FWIW.

Quinn is ths hit. So is Green. So are darius and peterson. Come 4/28, we're gonna be a better football team.

Well, no shit. The first video of Quinn doesn't show shit - just Quinn flying in from off screen to make the tackle. I'm much more interested in his battle with the LT (the second video shows a bit more of that). But it's all the "film" I've got at my disposal, however.

I wish they would release scouting video, or at least the network feed of a whole game (you can watch a particular player that way somewhat), but I guess crappy highlight videos are better than nothing at all...

And yes, you don't need extra moves if you're making plays. But at the NFL level, I'd bet serious coin he'll need more than one move. Just watch Freeney some time, that dude has like 6.

My bad. Must have miundrstood when you posted you tube vids and offered conclusions based upon them.

Bust eriously, I bet if you started a site where you paid college film kids working for food to release honest to shit game and practice film amd had a couple former position coaches narrate and commentate and charged premium you could make a buckand really rasise the level of amateur draftnikery. Bet there'd be a nice market for whoever gets there first.

Received PFW Draft Book in the mail today. Despite the recent Smile-gate with Nawrocki, the publication has, IMO, been the standard in prospect analysis for years. I respect their opinions. Here is their top 15:

I haven't seen anything so blatantly fucking ignorant in regards to your top fifteen leaving Newton off the board since the headlines when Syracuse played Texas in the Cottonbowl and the rednecks were crackin on jim Brown worse than if they had seen a three headed green 10 foot slimey Alien.

I haven't seen anything so blatantly fucking ignorant in regards to your top fifteen leaving Newton off the board since the headlines when Syracuse played Texas in the Cottonbowl and the rednecks were crackin on jim Brown worse than if they had seen a three headed green 10 foot slimey Alien.

I haven't seen anything so blatantly fucking ignorant in regards to your top fifteen leaving Newton off the board since the headlines when Syracuse played Texas in the Cottonbowl and the rednecks were crackin on jim Brown worse than if they had seen a three headed green 10 foot slimey Alien.

I haven't seen anything so blatantly fucking ignorant in regards to your top fifteen leaving Newton off the board since the headlines when Syracuse played Texas in the Cottonbowl and the rednecks were crackin on jim Brown worse than if they had seen a three headed green 10 foot slimey Alien.

I haven't seen anything so blatantly fucking ignorant in regards to your top fifteen leaving Newton off the board since the headlines when Syracuse played Texas in the Cottonbowl and the rednecks were crackin on jim Brown worse than if they had seen a three headed green 10 foot slimey Alien.

A triple post? That has to be a TCF record. (if you discount dickless spammers that want to babble about some cheap and high quality jersey that was probably stitched together by some 6 year old cambodian orphan in a tiger cage.)

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:A triple post? That has to be a TCF record. (if you discount dickless spammers that want to babble about some cheap and high quality jersey that was probably stitched together by some 6 year old cambodian orphan in a tiger cage.)

SD:

Thats the sight hangs my computer and spits ouwhat it will.

Cleaned it up after I saw your response and all I could read was the fact you could count to three without taking your shoes off .

Now, keep the wad out of the boxers, these aren't my words, but an interesting take on Quinn from Peter King:

Robert Quinn, the highly regarded defensive end from North Carolina, is proving to be a tough study for many teams. He hasn't played football in 16 months, having been suspended for taking improper benefits at North Carolina and being banned for the entire 2010 season. He had a benign brain tumor in high school. Those two elements would make it tough enough. Add this one: He fattened up his sack totals -- 11 in 13 games -- against some weak sisters.