Any and all opinions welcome. With a 60k budget and wanting at least a 22' boat which boat are you hunting down and how are you weighting it? Changing gears shortly and will be in the market. I have owned Mastercraft X2, Tige RZ2 and Tige Z3 in the past. Wouldn't mind changing gears from Tige but am open minded. Don't worry about the dealers on my lake etc, I have mechanics that work on anything. Re-sale is fairly important as well, I change gears often!

Also, surfing is the main consideration with tubing (5 boys) and wakeboarding and cruising as other considerations.

Hey Bstroop, thanks for nothing clown… feel free to let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out.
I have bought plenty of boats but am not ignorant enough to think that others might not have some good advice and points I had not considered.

Ive considered Centurion but am a little hung up on the fact that you either get one wake to one side or the other but not both. If someone can show me how to fix that I would definitely give them a look. Im not sure which Malibu in those years except maybe the 247 which is a beast but likely out of my budget? Tige 22V is a consideration.

No experience with AXIS at all and have not seen much about the surf wakes, any place you could point me to show me a few that have it dialed in?

Last edited by jdhart73; 02-02-2014 at 8:27 PM.
Reason: tone it down a bit

wake looks pretty clean in this video, i know these are their new boats but i don't think their hulls have changed that much. ive ridden on centurions before and the passenger side just needs a bit more weight. any hull that is v shaped is harder to keep both sides clean.

ive also ridden on a few F21 tomcats before, stock ballast with another 1000 right in the middle is money. but the more you add the better it gets!!!

I haven't seen anything on the Mojo, probably need to give them a look. Thanks for the video Bam, I like the new RAMfill system on Centurion but doubt they fit my budget. I can buy a new one but I am over buying brand new every year, trying to be a little more practical this spring!

Thanks Bill, they are definitely on my list. I think I watched some video on MB forum of your boat.
What was I reading about "overheating" issues over there, is that on a particular year, boat or engine?

Ive also been reading that you have to throw a TON of weight in them to really get a nice wave but when you do its awesome.
I like the awesome wave but also frequently have little ones with me and want things safe as well. Any thoughts on this?

So if those set ups above are as advertised on MB forum them they run full surf side stock 1150lbs + half non surf 575lbs + 750 surf corner + 350 under rear seat corner + 650 bow sac 3/4 full. Roughly 3300lbs or so total ballast? Does that sound right? Wake plate recommended to clean up the top wash.

I like the look of the wake, as long ad it's firm and has good push. Would be nice to plumb all of that and have a few custom L sacs built for the rear lockers if the locker opens to the under seat in front of it?

So if those set ups above are as advertised on MB forum them they run full surf side stock 1150lbs + half non surf 575lbs + 750 surf corner + 350 under rear seat corner + 650 bow sac 3/4 full. Roughly 3300lbs or so total ballast? Does that sound right? Wake plate recommended to clean up the top wash.

I like the look of the wake, as long ad it's firm and has good push. Would be nice to plumb all of that and have a few custom L sacs built for the rear lockers if the locker opens to the under seat in front of it?

Mine (the second vid) is factory full (both sides), a 750 in the corner, and a horseshoe (w709) sack in the bow, under the seats (probably less than 400, I suspect). If the wave is washy, we dump weight on the non-surf side of the factory ballast for 10 seconds or so till it cleans up. The boat's LH prop rotation favors the goofy side a bit in the sense that you don't need to dump as much weight when surfing goofy (if you have 5 peeps, you can pretty much run it full on both sides in my experience).

I was thinking this was a 23 wide body.
Also is was having a conversation with Drew about the trim tab.
He says you put it a 1/4 down go clean the wave but what I saw most doing on MB forum
was with tab all the way up and it cleaned it up. Any experience here?

Rub rail right at the water then? I can deal with that, just hate having to constantly worry about rollers over the back when I stop etc

Jake, my boat is the 23' er.

My vid is shot with the tab all the way up.

We came from a 2006 Malibu vride. We run about double the weight in the MB and still it feels safer than the vride did with 1500ish. With our setup, it's pretty difficult to take water, and in 240 hours we have NEVER EVER taken water over the bow. With the vride, a moment's inattention and a rogue roller resulted in a couple of waves over the bow every season. At least.

So I'd say that the 23' MB (traditional bow) is a great choice for big water where you are concerned about freeboard. It does really well. My setup leaves the rub rail about 4" above the water at rest (though it likely looks like Michah's while underway, when the boat is "dug in"). You can definitely run a lot more weight than we do and get away with it. At the Polar Bear event, the MB that was there was running about 1000 lbs more than we do.

So if those set ups above are as advertised on MB forum them they run full surf side stock 1150lbs + half non surf 575lbs + 750 surf corner + 350 under rear seat corner + 650 bow sac 3/4 full. Roughly 3300lbs or so total ballast? Does that sound right? Wake plate recommended to clean up the top wash.

I like the look of the wake, as long ad it's firm and has good push. Would be nice to plumb all of that and have a few custom L sacs built for the rear lockers if the locker opens to the under seat in front of it?

Jake,
I know that people can get flamed rather quickly on "recommending" boats...For myself, I have looked, been in, and rode behind many boats and I was very very close to going with supreme or centurion this time. But, my nearest dealer has Supreme and Centurion and is an awesome dealership, and my nearest MB dealer is 3 hrs away...Larson has MBs and Malibus sitting right next to each other and I crawled around in both. As for features, build quality and styling, I swear "for me" it was a no brainer for me to chose MB. I'm sure I will be laughed at and even make some people mad when you are pro MB, but most of the people that don't like them have actually never been near one. Now being on my 6th boat, I am more than glad I went with my gut for MB again. Centurion has come a long ways and are going to be a force to be reckoned with in the future IMO.
-All I can say is go physically check one out, ride in it, and you will see where some of the "hype" is born.
-Also don't be afraid to ship....in my recent boat search, I was very close to shipping over 1400 miles, and the rates were not nearly as bad as I suspected!

I was thinking this was a 23 wide body.
Also is was having a conversation with Drew about the trim tab.
He says you put it a 1/4 down go clean the wave but what I saw most doing on MB forum
was with tab all the way up and it cleaned it up. Any experience here?

On my 06 23V Team (different hull) I added a tab, most of 23 Teams DONT have tabs),and it made all of the difference in the world. I ran it maybe an 1/8th down, basically held the button a "one one thousand" count. I only had it on for a month or so (along with my brand new REV 3 some) and then sold the boat ....TAB IS A MUST.

I think it depends a bit. If you wakeboard with newbs a lot, MB is tough because the wake doesn't really clean up till 22+. Axis cleans up a lot slower. But for surfing the MB 23 can compete with the best (it did at the polar bear).

I'd also put a used malibu 247 on your list if you have the room and don't mind going a little older.

shawn dogs vid he is running goofy and with MB's goofy prop rotation the tab is not needed as much to clean IMO. I do get on the tab a little to clean my reg side and when I had my Supreme 226 it was just the opposite, I had to put the tab all the way down on the goofy side

drew we'll have to agree to disagree about that, ours is actually cleaner on the regular side than the goofy side. But I think we're comparing apples to oranges, because we weight the boat differently. As I recall, you do no bow weight, right?

yep, no bow weight on ours, see how I have the wash completely rolling over to the other side, it makes the lip real firm, without the tab down I have the same white wash and large rain drops popping up on the reg

Thanks Bill, they are definitely on my list. I think I watched some video on MB forum of your boat.
What was I reading about "overheating" issues over there, is that on a particular year, boat or engine?

Ive also been reading that you have to throw a TON of weight in them to really get a nice wave but when you do its awesome.
I like the awesome wave but also frequently have little ones with me and want things safe as well. Any thoughts on this?

I have not ran into any issues with overheating. As for weight yes it takes alot but the boat sits so high its not bad. Ive never taken water over the bow. My son and his friends are all 8-10 yrs old and he surfs behind with no worries.

correct, or in my case I get the same results when by hitting the tab down the bow lowers ( same if it had weight ) some however like bow weight and I will play with it more this year but feel like I am getting everything I need from JUST the plate (tab)

yes, longer pocket, better prop shaft angle (rear end not quite so "buried"), meatier wave, more push from "way back there." We find that with too much tab, the wave starts to lose power/push.

That said, I've never surfed drew's setup, and he hasn't surfed mine, so this is all hypothetical. Drew's wave looks great and I don't doubt I could have fun on it. Maybe some folks who went to the polar bear and surfed the MB there will also be at the georgia event with Drew in the spring and can offer a better A-B comparison.

Drew also runs weight up under the seat (yes, it's open back there, so you can run an enzo style sack), which we don't do (need the storage). Our wave got better with the bow weight, so I'd recommend it. It also improves the wakeboarding wake, if you care.

I run 750 in locker, 350 under side seat. And the 650 bow sac up front about 3/4 full. Stock full on surf side. 1/2 full on non surf side. Anywhere from 10.7 to 11.2 mph. Tab all way up. The wave is big, long, and tons of push.

Jake,
I know that people can get flamed rather quickly on "recommending" boats...For myself, I have looked, been in, and rode behind many boats and I was very very close to going with supreme or centurion this time. But, my nearest dealer has Supreme and Centurion and is an awesome dealership, and my nearest MB dealer is 3 hrs away...Larson has MBs and Malibus sitting right next to each other and I crawled around in both. As for features, build quality and styling, I swear "for me" it was a no brainer for me to chose MB. I'm sure I will be laughed at and even make some people mad when you are pro MB, but most of the people that don't like them have actually never been near one. Now being on my 6th boat, I am more than glad I went with my gut for MB again. Centurion has come a long ways and are going to be a force to be reckoned with in the future IMO.
-All I can say is go physically check one out, ride in it, and you will see where some of the "hype" is born.
-Also don't be afraid to ship....in my recent boat search, I was very close to shipping over 1400 miles, and the rates were not nearly as bad as I suspected!

This entire thread is very timely for a new person like myself, but I agree with your above thoughts.

We were just at the DFW boat show this past weekend and we crawled all over the major brands.

Since we were in the market for something in the 60-70K range, we looked hard the Axis, Epic, Moomba, & MB Sports F22.

Our concenus was also that the MB F22 fit, finish and build quality was equal to any of the top boats and better than any other in the price range. The interior was awesome and I really liked the interior setup, but we were also not big fans of the tower or the picklefork front end.

We haven't bought just yet, because the look of the Moomba is still pulling on us, but we do have an agreement to discuss the F22 more next week after the show and the Moomba folks are also working tyrin to persuade us their way.

I was hoping to find more about the stock ballast wakesurf on the F22 or the Moomba. We have one kid that rides goofy and it sure would be nice to dump and fill in seconds compared to minutes just for one person.

James,
-Ya i hear ya on the back and forth! I have been for almost a year! I wanted to make sure and do it right this time.
What Moomba are you looking at? I know that the new paint scheme on the B52s actually kinda remind of the Moomba's new schemes in a way (That's a good thing). I have had very little experience with Moombas, except for a friend that had an older one, and that doesent matter becuase boats have changed SOOO much in the last 4 years its crazy.
Only evidence I have of good surf is this:
Here is a picture of the F-22's surf, very bad pic (from Enzos Marine in Canada)

More on the F22:
In the promo video at 3:05 Im a port guy, but there is some SB stuff earlier in the video. They show some bags in the boat during the wakeboard sesh, so I assume they used the same bags for the locker for the surf footage....with that said I doubt it is more than 750 in the rear with a couple of hotties in the bow....Im sold! I think this boat will have great potential.

So just to keep all things square does anyone have any video of a 2012 or up SAN 210 surfing?
I have heard differing opinions on the boat (good to great) and cannot find much footage of the boats surfing.

Ive seen the 23 LSV, that thing looks pretty well slammed when it has weight in it but the wave looks nice and long. Not sure how I feel
about being half sunk though.

I have had some bad experience with Supreme (friend and towing in often) but I heard now things are different since Centurion is building but I dunno.

Both crappy 1 minute videos Dirt. My comment wasn't meant for you to go hunting for me, I have already searched.
What I was asking for was proof of a solid wake behind either. I have yet to see any footage showing a good set up. Im not saying there
isn't one out there but in my searches I have not found it. Haven't found it in their respective forums either, although I have not searched Axis as hard.

Both crappy 1 minute videos Dirt. My comment wasn't meant for you to go hunting for me, I have already searched.
What I was asking for was proof of a solid wake behind either. I have yet to see any footage showing a good set up. Im not saying there
isn't one out there but in my searches I have not found it. Haven't found it in their respective forums either, although I have not searched Axis as hard.

I get it, I was beginning to wonder....
If its any consolation I went on the same hunt and that was what took axis off my list....that and I didn't like their interiors of the 14s. I liked the styling, not the quality.

I agree with you on the interior of the Axis. SAN 210 is still on my list but I have a feeling to get it to really push you would need to sink it like a 23 LSV which I don't know if I am a fan of. The MB really does intrigue me though, it looks to be a nicely built boat and there are plenty of people like yourself with well documented wakes and exact HOW TO's to get other boats to the same level which is great. I wonder if anyone has retrofitted any sort of surf gate like device on an MB yet?

Mojos really have a lot of cool features, I was looking at their site, they have def came a long way. I like their style for sure, love their bows, tons of cup holders, not a huge fan of their dashes, but I do like the gauges. Nice looking boats!

I would say, "don't take anybody else's opinion of wake." What may be good for one person may not be for another. The same goes for fit and finish. Wakes can look good in a pic, tall and meaty, but are soft and do not have push. Ride behind it and see for yourself. There are a lot of nice boats out there. The industry is moving forward at a fast clip.

Any and all opinions welcome. With a 60k budget and wanting at least a 22' boat which boat are you hunting down and how are you weighting it? Changing gears shortly and will be in the market. I have owned Mastercraft X2, Tige RZ2 and Tige Z3 in the past. Wouldn't mind changing gears from Tige but am open minded. Don't worry about the dealers on my lake etc, I have mechanics that work on anything. Re-sale is fairly important as well, I change gears often!

Also, surfing is the main consideration with tubing (5 boys) and wakeboarding and cruising as other considerations.

Thanks in advance for your recommendations.

Looking for a budget surf boat then you need to look at the Supreme V226. Check out all of the videos on flyboy's website. That boat might put out the best wave with the least amount of ballast.

A good friend traded in his V226 for a mastercraft X30 last summer.
We had horrible luck with that boat, I towed him in literally the first time he had it on the water.
Right or wrong I just can't bring myself to buy one. It put out a phenomenal wake when it was running good but
the headaches we had outweighed that. I have heard that things are better now since manufacturing changed hands.