Yesterday John Rallo (Renzo Grace BJJ brown belt) was showing some "anti grapple" that I thought was pretty solid. He was stopping a guard pass with a stiff arm to the face. Then he got a bit of room and said "if I don't want to be here I just..." and he jumped to his feet.

You can argue that he was grappling, but he really wasn't going to submission or position, just enough to get back to his feet.

My point exactly.
One thing you should watch is the second round of the first match in UFC 54. THAT is what most people think of when they talk about "anti-grapple". For more AG greatness, watch the later fight with Liddell against Horn.

Yesterday John Rallo (Renzo Grace BJJ brown belt) was showing some "anti grapple" that I thought was pretty solid. He was stopping a guard pass with a stiff arm to the face. Then he got a bit of room and said "if I don't want to be here I just..." and he jumped to his feet.

You can argue that he was grappling, but he really wasn't going to submission or position, just enough to get back to his feet.

He was basically defending against a grappler. And defending against a grappler can involve either grappling and/or striking techniques. As long as it's effective, it doesn't really matter.

It is worth noting that Rallo is a grappler, and that Lidell (the anti-grappler demi-god) is a grappler who happens to have much superior striking skills. And that's what's at the core of the matter. One has to know about grappling to be effective against grapplers.

And I believe, maybe I'm wrong, but my impression of anti-grappling as it has been presented thus far, it has been concoted without a deep understanding of grappling. Ergo, that's where the fallacy lies.

Originally Posted by Coyote

One thing you should watch is the second round of the first match in UFC 54 - THAT is what most people think of when they talk about "anti-grapple".

James "The Sandman" Irvin against Terry Martin? Yeah, that flying knee kicked ass.

Originally Posted by Coyote

For more AG greatness, watch the later fight with Liddell against Horn.

Though Jeremy Horn has one KO/TKO win for every two wins by submission, I wouldn't think of his bout with Liddel as the "striker vs grappler" fight. Horn knows how to strike.

The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

This is Bullshit. Don't even try to compare the monkey flinging poo takedown to a real wrestling takedown. I've seen more people owned by regular wrestling, before the UFC, than what you are implying.

OK, my comment was alittle short and thus vague and so let me eloborate. I am talking about the general public, you know the 80% or more of the population that doesn't train and never has.....but will still try to fight with you at bars and sports events everywhere, or punk criminals that want your wallet,.....

When I was growing up and got in fights or watched them, when the slugging got to be to much, people flipped out and went for a double leg Takedown or waist tackle. This was not wrestlers who trained for CIF, this was just regular kids and young adults. It can barely be called a DL because it was at best a footbal tackle low and for the knees or a bear hug kinda thing. This leaves the temples and neck wide open. Any kind of sprawl beats it and it is followed by knee drop to the head.

Actual wrestlers with skill generally avoided fights so they wouldn't get into trouble, but the ones that did get into fights I saw in highschool did excellent single legs with sweep to mount and pound usually.

But how many wrestlers are you gonna face? and if you do, they go right for the clinch and takedown. I was more refering to people switching from the punching game to a takedown attempt.

Look, If the other guy is a skilled grappler you are gonna go down, and if he is more skilled at the ground then what are you gonna do? Same goes for anything else. Who is saying theres some magic pill that makes you able to beat a Gracie by just eating a DVD? Its a training tape and the techniques work reasonably against people of equal skill and training time.

So the key is if you are affraid of some deadly street fight, put in more training time.

Originally Posted by Tenebrous

Would it be possible for you to, say, demonstrate the validity of your anti-grapple?

What do you mean by demonstrate?

I have used it for real, on two occasions, and it worked fine. Neither opponent was a BJJ, and only one had the "High School Wrestling" black belt and the other one was a larger home invader. Both attempted stupid waist level tackles from too far away.

and it would be HWY I-5 :tongue11:

"If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event

I have used it for real, on two occasions, and it worked fine. Neither opponent was a BJJ, and only one had the "High School Wrestling" black belt and the other one was a larger home invader. Both attempted stupid waist level tackles from too far away.

and it would be HWY I-5 :tongue11:

Meaning, could you demonstrate it against a competent or semi-competent grappler who was really intent on taking you down?

I have the Anti-grapple. It's called not washing your Gi and keeping it in the trunk of your car between classes. It works wonders.

Pft. Kids stuff. I have T3H anti-grapple and T3H anti-strike And t3h ANTI-Throw!
I haven't bathed in 1 year and 3 months. When you strike me you get pus all over your body and you get sores that fill with pus. Same if you try to throw/grapple me.

Meaning, could you demonstrate it against a competent or semi-competent grappler who was really intent on taking you down?

I am always willing to play around. I am not willing to risk injury, I have to work for a living in Public, so bruises and anything broken is out of the question.....

I realize a grappler can easily flip me up and crack my skull on the floor, or flying arm-bar my elbow into 6 months of sharp pain or worse. So the idea of "really intent" on taking me down is not something I trust to unless I can be "really intent " on breaking their neck. Since I am not that intent, I would much rather just train with people safely. See where this always goes?

I am not saying I am to deadly to spar. I have complete control of myself. I am just not intersted in being a punching bag for someone that isn't interested in going easy to moderate and seeing if things are possible or not. I am 35, out of shape, and only get to train twice a week, most of which is with beginners, so any idea of dis-proving Anti-grapple with/against me is gonna be an invalid sample group to begin with. :duckie:

What did you have in mind?

Originally Posted by Tenebrous

You must be farther North than I am, the 91 is a terror.

Inland Empire or more towards Long Beach? I grew up in Riverside, Graduated from J. W. North High.....91/215 is my old stomping grounds :new_vampv

"If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event