So will a self-driving car pull up to my driveway after I hail it? Or will it need to be on a known road, and wait like a taxi? I always wondered how that would work. It would be much more convenient if it could pull up the driveway so I don't feel rushed unloading groceries, etc.

Though I can appreciate self-driving, or computer "assisted" (as in can help - my wife's 2015 Subaru will break if it detects a collision, beep if going "out of your lane"), there are still many ways I need manual driving.

We have an older Ford Explorer to tow our camper. Getting the camper parked exactly where/how we want takes control. I back in, wife checks leveling bubbles, then may have me pull forward so she can lay down big yellow "legos" under one side of wheels. Computers cannot do that manual work.

Though I can appreciate self-driving, or computer "assisted" (as in can help - my wife's 2015 Subaru will break if it detects a collision, beep if going "out of your lane"), there are still many ways I need manual driving.

We have an older Ford Explorer to tow our camper. Getting the camper parked exactly where/how we want takes control. I back in, wife checks leveling bubbles, then may have me pull forward so she can lay down big yellow "legos" under one side of wheels. Computers cannot do that manual work.

I am sure it will be at least a couple of decades before most cars are autonomous. Why state the obvious that they won't cover every possible use case right now?

Though I can appreciate self-driving, or computer "assisted" (as in can help - my wife's 2015 Subaru will break if it detects a collision, beep if going "out of your lane"), there are still many ways I need manual driving.

We have an older Ford Explorer to tow our camper. Getting the camper parked exactly where/how we want takes control. I back in, wife checks leveling bubbles, then may have me pull forward so she can lay down big yellow "legos" under one side of wheels. Computers cannot do that manual work.

Your safe. Nobody is taking your manual car from you. Hell i am pretty sure Waymo would be quite pissed off if you tried to bolt your camper onto their autonomous taxis.

Still kudos for the single most ridiculous argument against autonomous vehicles I have seen this month.

Though I can appreciate self-driving, or computer "assisted" (as in can help - my wife's 2015 Subaru will break if it detects a collision, beep if going "out of your lane"), there are still many ways I need manual driving.

We have an older Ford Explorer to tow our camper. Getting the camper parked exactly where/how we want takes control. I back in, wife checks leveling bubbles, then may have me pull forward so she can lay down big yellow "legos" under one side of wheels. Computers cannot do that manual work.

I am sure it will be at least a couple of decades before most cars are autonomous. Why state the obvious that they won't cover every possible use case right now?

They might not even operate towing something unless there are compatible sensors that it can tie into to keep full coverage appropriately. You're definitely right that for a trailer/camping/etc you'll still need manual to get it parked exactly where you want. Unless you can put out markers that the sensors can see and will out the trailer right there. That'd be interesting.

Though I can appreciate self-driving, or computer "assisted" (as in can help - my wife's 2015 Subaru will break if it detects a collision, beep if going "out of your lane"), there are still many ways I need manual driving.

We have an older Ford Explorer to tow our camper. Getting the camper parked exactly where/how we want takes control. I back in, wife checks leveling bubbles, then may have me pull forward so she can lay down big yellow "legos" under one side of wheels. Computers cannot do that manual work.

gosh, seems like google needs to add getting an endorsement from the Union of Camper Towers with Yellow Legos to its list ...

I have a few "funny" scenarios in mind with respect to different company AV's and AV's in general.

First, MADD supports this. Fine, a drunk not driving is a good thing. But couple that with the idiotic notion of a "shared AV" thing, when you call a car to you and you end up with a car arriving either with a passed out drunk in the back, or one who left his stomach contents in the car.

Yay technology!

The other notion I had was when two AV's from different companies arrive at a stop sign at exactly the right time to cause them to sit there each waiting on the other one to move.

Centuries later, skeletons were found...

Finally, there's the competition angle between AV's. One AV car company wants to make another AV car company look bad, so they program their cars to "stage" accidents that make it look like the other car was at fault.

At least exchanging driver's information should be faster...

Ah, the wonders of the future. It's always bright and shiny, until you get there and reality sets in...

[Edit: <eyes the down-votes>

I mourn the death of the Arsians' sense of humor. Apparently, they take absurdity and hyperbole as positional statements. SMH. ]

Though I can appreciate self-driving, or computer "assisted" (as in can help - my wife's 2015 Subaru will break if it detects a collision, beep if going "out of your lane"), there are still many ways I need manual driving.

We have an older Ford Explorer to tow our camper. Getting the camper parked exactly where/how we want takes control. I back in, wife checks leveling bubbles, then may have me pull forward so she can lay down big yellow "legos" under one side of wheels. Computers cannot do that manual work.

Your safe. Nobody is taking your manual car from you. Hell i am pretty sure Waymo would be quite pissed off if you tried to bolt your camper onto their autonomous taxis.

Still kudos for the single most ridiculous argument against autonomous vehicles I have seen this month.

Funny enough my hope is that by the time my current 2015 truck is due for replacement in 12-15 years that the replacement will be self driving (I'm hoping for a used electric semi with level 5 automation). I can't imagine anything better than having the truck drive my trailer down the road with me asleep and wake up at the next cool destination, right now I waste hours of my vacation driving and more hours sleeping, combining the two activities would at least double the useful hours I have on vacation.

Though I can appreciate self-driving, or computer "assisted" (as in can help - my wife's 2015 Subaru will break if it detects a collision, beep if going "out of your lane"), there are still many ways I need manual driving.

We have an older Ford Explorer to tow our camper. Getting the camper parked exactly where/how we want takes control. I back in, wife checks leveling bubbles, then may have me pull forward so she can lay down big yellow "legos" under one side of wheels. Computers cannot do that manual work.

No one gives a shit about your camper, this is a taxi service. Do you move your "camper" using taxis?

I love the idea of self driving cars. I cannot wait to own one myself. I can't wait for the time when the majority of cars on the road are self driving.

But I have a strange thought about fleets of self driving taxis:

Has anyone considered how these fleets of unmanned taxis are potentially going to be exploited for illegal acts such as drug trafficking? Hear me out on this one.

I'm not talking necessarily about traffickers moving massive quantities from point A to point B. But lets say smaller amounts. Let's say a dealer takes a small bag of product, then calls an AI car to pick up and cart this person around to all the deals of the day. First, the car is not registered to this dealer, and further the car is going to adhere to all traffic laws to the letter, so there is theoretically zero call for this car to ever be pulled over or searched. But let's say for a moment that the vehicle DID encounter law enforcement and there was call for it to be searched. What is LE able to do when the passenger simply says the bag was already in the vehicle before the fare took place? "That bag was already in the car when I got in, officer, I've never seen it before and did not even touch it". Sure, you can say there will be cameras in the vehicles, but we all know the clever criminal types will outsmart those somehow.

Just food for thought. I'd be very interested to hear everyone's thoughts and/or solutions.

That's the form to apply to participate in their pre-launch testing, which involves a safety driver in every vehicle. The rumor is that sometime later this year they'll take out the safety driver and start charging for the service.

I love the idea of self driving cars. I cannot wait to own one myself. I can't wait for the time when the majority of cars on the road are self driving.

But I have a strange thought about fleets of self driving taxis:

Has anyone considered how these fleets of unmanned taxis are potentially going to be exploited for illegal acts such as drug trafficking? Hear me out on this one.

I'm not talking necessarily about traffickers moving massive quantities from point A to point B. But lets say smaller amounts. Let's say a dealer takes a small bag of product, then calls an AI car to pick up and cart this person around to all the deals of the day. First, the car is not registered to this dealer, and further the car is going to adhere to all traffic laws to the letter, so there is theoretically zero call for this car to ever be pulled over or searched. But let's say for a moment that the vehicle DID encounter law enforcement and there was call for it to be searched. What is LE able to do when the passenger simply says the bag was already in the vehicle before the fare took place? "That bag was already in the car when I got in, officer, I've never seen it before and did not even touch it". Sure, you can say there will be cameras in the vehicles, but we all know the clever criminal types will outsmart those somehow.

Just food for thought. I'd be very interested to hear everyone's thoughts and/or solutions.

You can do that with a taxi, too. The driver wouldn't credibly know whether a baggie had been under the seat or not. The driver would know if he had done a serious of trips with the same passenger, but the self-driving taxi will know that too. The self-driving taxi will have a more complete and detailed record of where each stop was with that passenger, and potentially will also have video during those stops.

I love the idea of self driving cars. I cannot wait to own one myself. I can't wait for the time when the majority of cars on the road are self driving.

But I have a strange thought about fleets of self driving taxis:

Has anyone considered how these fleets of unmanned taxis are potentially going to be exploited for illegal acts such as drug trafficking? Hear me out on this one.

I'm not talking necessarily about traffickers moving massive quantities from point A to point B. But lets say smaller amounts. Let's say a dealer takes a small bag of product, then calls an AI car to pick up and cart this person around to all the deals of the day. First, the car is not registered to this dealer, and further the car is going to adhere to all traffic laws to the letter, so there is theoretically zero call for this car to ever be pulled over or searched. But let's say for a moment that the vehicle DID encounter law enforcement and there was call for it to be searched. What is LE able to do when the passenger simply says the bag was already in the vehicle before the fare took place? "That bag was already in the car when I got in, officer, I've never seen it before and did not even touch it". Sure, you can say there will be cameras in the vehicles, but we all know the clever criminal types will outsmart those somehow.

Just food for thought. I'd be very interested to hear everyone's thoughts and/or solutions.

You can do that with a taxi, too. The driver wouldn't credibly know whether a baggie had been under the seat or not. The driver would know if he had done a serious of trips with the same passenger, but the self-driving taxi will know that too. The self-driving taxi will have a more complete and detailed record of where each stop was with that passenger, and potentially will also have video during those stops.

I don't see this as any more problematic than taxis.

I considered that as well, but it seems to be that a taxi with a driver would be more of a witness risk to the perpetrator and thus this would be a far less appealing method of dispensation. Again, this is purely speculation on my part, and I have little in the way of evidence or experience to believe this could even be a thing. I hardly consider myself any manner of authority in the ways and means of the industrious drug dealer, but it seems to be from a layman line of reasoning that it's a possible risk.

This is really exciting news. If Waymo's live fire experiment works well in Phoenix, that could be a turning point to convincing legislators nationwide to adopt self-driving laws and the public that autonomous vehicles are for real and could come tantalizingly soon.

I would *love* to have a self-driver and would buy one in a minute. Driving is a drag and not something I particularly enjoy.

Can't go on a long road trip in a self-driver without nationally harmonized autonomous vehicle laws. And considering how long legislation takes, law makers probably ought to get started on it.

I love the idea of self driving cars. I cannot wait to own one myself. I can't wait for the time when the majority of cars on the road are self driving.

But I have a strange thought about fleets of self driving taxis:

Has anyone considered how these fleets of unmanned taxis are potentially going to be exploited for illegal acts such as drug trafficking? Hear me out on this one.

I'm not talking necessarily about traffickers moving massive quantities from point A to point B. But lets say smaller amounts. Let's say a dealer takes a small bag of product, then calls an AI car to pick up and cart this person around to all the deals of the day. First, the car is not registered to this dealer, and further the car is going to adhere to all traffic laws to the letter, so there is theoretically zero call for this car to ever be pulled over or searched. But let's say for a moment that the vehicle DID encounter law enforcement and there was call for it to be searched. What is LE able to do when the passenger simply says the bag was already in the vehicle before the fare took place? "That bag was already in the car when I got in, officer, I've never seen it before and did not even touch it". Sure, you can say there will be cameras in the vehicles, but we all know the clever criminal types will outsmart those somehow.

Just food for thought. I'd be very interested to hear everyone's thoughts and/or solutions.

You can do that with a taxi, too. The driver wouldn't credibly know whether a baggie had been under the seat or not. The driver would know if he had done a serious of trips with the same passenger, but the self-driving taxi will know that too. The self-driving taxi will have a more complete and detailed record of where each stop was with that passenger, and potentially will also have video during those stops.

I don't see this as any more problematic than taxis.

I considered that as well, but it seems to be that a taxi with a driver would be more of a witness risk to the perpetrator and thus this would be a far less appealing method of dispensation. Again, this is purely speculation on my part, and I have little in the way of evidence or experience to believe this could even be a thing. I hardly consider myself any manner of authority in the ways and means of the industrious drug dealer, but it seems to be from a layman line of reasoning that it's a possible risk.

I think its extremely likely a self-driving taxi is going to have CCTV cameras on the inside, just like buses do today.

I love the idea of self driving cars. I cannot wait to own one myself. I can't wait for the time when the majority of cars on the road are self driving.

But I have a strange thought about fleets of self driving taxis:

Has anyone considered how these fleets of unmanned taxis are potentially going to be exploited for illegal acts such as drug trafficking? Hear me out on this one.

I'm not talking necessarily about traffickers moving massive quantities from point A to point B. But lets say smaller amounts. Let's say a dealer takes a small bag of product, then calls an AI car to pick up and cart this person around to all the deals of the day. First, the car is not registered to this dealer, and further the car is going to adhere to all traffic laws to the letter, so there is theoretically zero call for this car to ever be pulled over or searched. But let's say for a moment that the vehicle DID encounter law enforcement and there was call for it to be searched. What is LE able to do when the passenger simply says the bag was already in the vehicle before the fare took place? "That bag was already in the car when I got in, officer, I've never seen it before and did not even touch it". Sure, you can say there will be cameras in the vehicles, but we all know the clever criminal types will outsmart those somehow.

Just food for thought. I'd be very interested to hear everyone's thoughts and/or solutions.

You can do that with a taxi, too. The driver wouldn't credibly know whether a baggie had been under the seat or not. The driver would know if he had done a serious of trips with the same passenger, but the self-driving taxi will know that too. The self-driving taxi will have a more complete and detailed record of where each stop was with that passenger, and potentially will also have video during those stops.

I don't see this as any more problematic than taxis.

I am not worried about the safety aspect of autonomous cars/taxis...or whatever esoteric scenario someone can dream up about what an autonomous car will never be able to handle. My concern will be more about the privacy aspect of it - everywhere you go will be recorded, there will likely be video of every single taxi trip with sound. How long will this information be kept for? Who will have access? Better be careful about what you say in an autonomous taxi as you will never know when it could come back to bite you...

Don't worry. I'm sure they will eventually find a way to be against it. I think ultimately MADD is the new Temperance League. Once they realize that AV's will likely lead to an increase in drinking they will find some excuse they they shouldn't be allowed. Or will insist that DUI laws apply to people riding in AV's.

I just want to know who pays for injuries/death and property damage these cars will inevitably cause. Are the laws in place? I hope Google doesn't try to evade their responsibilities.

I don't think the laws are fully in place yet, but AFAIK owner/operators of vehicle fleets are the ones responsible (usually buying insurance), and since these are essentially custom cars I'm sure there is some kind of language in the contract making Google solely responsible for anything done when controlled by their software.

For the initial launches of commercial app-a-ride probably will all be covered similarly. Owner/operator of the vehicle fleet will be fully responsible, and their deal to buy the vehicles will probably have indemnity of various types for the builder of the vehicles.

I love the idea of self driving cars. I cannot wait to own one myself. I can't wait for the time when the majority of cars on the road are self driving.

But I have a strange thought about fleets of self driving taxis:

Has anyone considered how these fleets of unmanned taxis are potentially going to be exploited for illegal acts such as drug trafficking? Hear me out on this one.

I'm not talking necessarily about traffickers moving massive quantities from point A to point B. But lets say smaller amounts. Let's say a dealer takes a small bag of product, then calls an AI car to pick up and cart this person around to all the deals of the day. First, the car is not registered to this dealer, and further the car is going to adhere to all traffic laws to the letter, so there is theoretically zero call for this car to ever be pulled over or searched. But let's say for a moment that the vehicle DID encounter law enforcement and there was call for it to be searched. What is LE able to do when the passenger simply says the bag was already in the vehicle before the fare took place? "That bag was already in the car when I got in, officer, I've never seen it before and did not even touch it". Sure, you can say there will be cameras in the vehicles, but we all know the clever criminal types will outsmart those somehow.

Just food for thought. I'd be very interested to hear everyone's thoughts and/or solutions.

You can do that with a taxi, too. The driver wouldn't credibly know whether a baggie had been under the seat or not. The driver would know if he had done a serious of trips with the same passenger, but the self-driving taxi will know that too. The self-driving taxi will have a more complete and detailed record of where each stop was with that passenger, and potentially will also have video during those stops.

I don't see this as any more problematic than taxis.

I am not worried about the safety aspect of autonomous cars/taxis...or whatever esoteric scenario someone can dream up about what an autonomous car will never be able to handle. My concern will be more about the privacy aspect of it - everywhere you go will be recorded, there will likely be video of every single taxi trip with sound.

Not sure if you're aware of this, but most (nearly all?) taxis already record your trips, and have for like 10 years now. That camera that is pointed at you when you get into a taxi is in fact likely to be recording. I'm sure self driving taxis will continue to do the same thing.

Do the ads explain exactly how the driverless taxi service is better for me (the consumer) than the equivalent traditional human driver taxi service? Are they cheaper? Faster? Safer? etc.

Something like half to two thirds the cost of a taxi is the driver, so yes, in the long term a driverless system should be a significantly cheaper. Possibly a lot cheaper if things like insurance end up being less for an automated system.

Don't worry. I'm sure they will eventually find a way to be against it. I think ultimately MADD is the new Temperance League. Once they realize that AV's will likely lead to an increase in drinking they will find some excuse they they shouldn't be allowed. Or will insist that DUI laws apply to people riding in AV's.

Don't worry. I'm sure they will eventually find a way to be against it. I think ultimately MADD is the new Temperance League. Once they realize that AV's will likely lead to an increase in drinking they will find some excuse they they shouldn't be allowed. Or will insist that DUI laws apply to people riding in AV's.

Do the ads explain exactly how the driverless taxi service is better for me (the consumer) than the equivalent traditional human driver taxi service? Are they cheaper? Faster? Safer? etc.

That's a fair question for the longer term, but less important for this test. A large number of people will want to try an autonomous taxi just for the novelty and unique first-hand experience. For others, it will make it possible to travel even though they could not reliably drive themselves.

One purpose of a testbed like this is to find out answers to your questions based on actual market responses, then use what is learned to iterate toward something better.

I love the idea of self driving cars. I cannot wait to own one myself. I can't wait for the time when the majority of cars on the road are self driving.

But I have a strange thought about fleets of self driving taxis:

Has anyone considered how these fleets of unmanned taxis are potentially going to be exploited for illegal acts such as drug trafficking? Hear me out on this one.

I'm not talking necessarily about traffickers moving massive quantities from point A to point B. But lets say smaller amounts. Let's say a dealer takes a small bag of product, then calls an AI car to pick up and cart this person around to all the deals of the day. First, the car is not registered to this dealer, and further the car is going to adhere to all traffic laws to the letter, so there is theoretically zero call for this car to ever be pulled over or searched. But let's say for a moment that the vehicle DID encounter law enforcement and there was call for it to be searched. What is LE able to do when the passenger simply says the bag was already in the vehicle before the fare took place? "That bag was already in the car when I got in, officer, I've never seen it before and did not even touch it". Sure, you can say there will be cameras in the vehicles, but we all know the clever criminal types will outsmart those somehow.

Just food for thought. I'd be very interested to hear everyone's thoughts and/or solutions.

You can do that with a taxi, too. The driver wouldn't credibly know whether a baggie had been under the seat or not. The driver would know if he had done a serious of trips with the same passenger, but the self-driving taxi will know that too. The self-driving taxi will have a more complete and detailed record of where each stop was with that passenger, and potentially will also have video during those stops.

I don't see this as any more problematic than taxis.

I am not worried about the safety aspect of autonomous cars/taxis...or whatever esoteric scenario someone can dream up about what an autonomous car will never be able to handle. My concern will be more about the privacy aspect of it - everywhere you go will be recorded, there will likely be video of every single taxi trip with sound.

Not sure if you're aware of this, but most (nearly all?) taxis already record your trips, and have for like 10 years now. That camera that is pointed at you when you get into a taxi is in fact likely to be recording. I'm sure self driving taxis will continue to do the same thing.

Do you have any proof that most taxi drivers record your trip? I saw evidence that some may use a camera sometimes...but I have found no evidence that most do as you claimed. In NYC it is illegal for them to not explicitly tell you that they are recording via a sign that says “This vehicle is equipped with camera security. YOU WILL BE PHOTOGRAPHED.” I don't remember seeing these signs yet.

I am not exactly sure what you are trying to argue here anyway. That ship has sailed and you shouldn't complain, get used to it?

Sure, it is possible that a taxi driver may already have a camera in the car and they may bother to turn it on. But there is a massive difference between individual taxi drivers overwriting the sd card at the end of the shift...vs. videos sent, saved and analyzed by Google (or government agency) for indeterminate period of time. You don't agree?

Not sure if you're aware of this, but most (nearly all?) taxis already record your trips, and have for like 10 years now. That camera that is pointed at you when you get into a taxi is in fact likely to be recording. I'm sure self driving taxis will continue to do the same thing.

Do you have any proof that most taxi drivers record your trip? I saw evidence that some may use a camera sometimes...but I have found no evidence that most do as you claimed.

Not proof, and I think I made it clear that I could be wrong above, but I can't remember the last time I took a taxi that didn't have a camera. Checking google suggests that my experiences are pretty representative.

I am not exactly sure what you are trying to argue here anyway. That ship has sailed and you shouldn't complain, get used to it?

Essentially yes. I googled NYC, and they setup their current regulatory system for recording taxi passengers in 2007. It is 2017 now. That ship sailed, returned, and was replaced with an autonomous one

Sure, it is possible that a taxi driver may already have a camera in the car and they may bother to turn it on. But there is a massive difference between individual taxi drivers overwriting the sd card at the end of the shift...vs. videos sent, saved and analyzed by Google (or government agency) for indeterminate period of time. You don't agree?

Yes there is a difference, but if some government decides to mandate that they be given all recordings of taxi trips, they can do that with or without a driver. If google really wants to see video of you in a taxi (why exactly? they already know where you're going if you've got a smartphone) they could partner with uber or another company and do that already. These things are essentially unrelated to automation of vehicles.