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Campbell Gives Rinehart High Marks

I have to admit I've been skeptical regarding all the happy talk about second-year guard Chad Rinehart.

Line coach Joe Bugel generally raves about the Redskins' linemen (with the exception of rookie tackle Scott Burley), so I take that for what it's worth. Vinny Cerrato also has pumped up Rinehart in our conversations, but Cerrato drafted Rinehart.

Players give you the real scoop on a guy, and I figured we would know a lot more about Rinehart after tonight's game against the Baltimore Ravens at M&T Bank Stadium. The Redskins were shut out, 23-0, but Rinehart apparently had a good night.

I don't have the benefit of tape to review at the moment, but he seemed to hold his own against the Ravens on the two possessions on which the first-team offense played. And he definitely made a favorable impression on the Redskins' starting quarterback.

"Rinehart ... he really showed me something out there tonight," Jason Campbell said. "The line gave me time to throw, I had some good protection out there, and he was part of that. He got a really good push on his guy and held his own."

On a third-down play on the Redskins' first possession, Campbell had an inordinate amount of time to survey the field and throw to wide receiver Marques Hagans, who mistimed his jump along the far sideline and failed to come up with the ball. The line provided Campbell with exceptional protection on the play, and Rinehart kept pace with the group.

"Hagans wasn't even in my progression, but I had time to look all the way over to the other side of the field," Campbell said. "Rinehart was right on his guy the whole way. You usually don't have that type of time."

This was only the first preseason game and the Ravens were without star pass rusher Terrell Suggs, whose presence would have turned up the pressure on the Redskins' offensive line. Still, though, Rinehart in one preseason game contributed more than he did in the entire 2008 preseason and regular season.

"I think Chad Rinehart can play," Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels said. "He was in there fighting with us and giving us his all. That's all you can ask for."

Rinehart struggled later in the game when he was moved to tackle because of injuries to others. I'm going to suggest to Zack Bolno that the Redskins should drop the "tackle-guard" designation in front of Rinehart's name in next season's media guide. The young fellow clearly is not a tackle. An AFC scout told me Rinehart just doesn't have the footwork or athleticism to play the position, and the Redskins know that.

But with Thomas expected to sit out at least some games because of his physical condition, Rinehart figures to get many opportunities at guard. "You like to have an experienced guy like Randy out there because he's been through it all," Campbell said. "But with Rinehart, he's a young guy who's showing us something. As long as he keeps it up, you start to have that confidence in him that he can be there to help."

I hope Rinehart can spell R Thomas this year, since there is no chance R Thomas is going 16 games. I'm hoping for 6-8 games from R Thomas, and this is his last year (his body is breaking down too much). Our young guys gotta step up for us to have a chance.

Campbell should not be grading ANYONE at this time!!! He'll be benched by week 6. He is slow to read the defense, and even slower to react. Add this with his timid and shy personality and you have a bad QB.

-Orakpo: Downright unblockable against the second team. In the first team situation, fared well in coverage.

-Kelly: Showed why he's the most unique option the Skins have. Great hands, wingspan, and body positioning coming over the middle. Nobody makes that catch with any sort of regularity.

-Thomas: Looked more comfortable and assertive out there, and made some nice plays.

-Davis: Fumbles are correctable. The reports that suggest he's very difficult to cover reflected themselves tonight.

-First-team pass-protection: Surprising, to say the least. Cooley got owned on a blitz pickup, but other than that, they held up surprisingly well. Terrible run-blocking, though.

- Jeremy Jarmon: Looks as if he could contribute much earlier than expected. Pleasant surprise.

The bad:

- Tryon was abused by the Ravens first team.

- Barnes seems way behind. He was also abused on a couple of occasions.

- London Fletcher. I've never seen him get beat as badly as Ray Rice did. Not only did he look slow on that play, but he completely over-committed and was turn completely around on the route. That was ugly. I hope his age isn't catching up with him.

- Offensive rhythm in general: there was none. Still looked stagnant and rigid.

I may be the only one with this opinion, but I feel GOOD about the opening game. Why?

First of all, no one critical to the team got hurt in a way that might impact the regular season.

Second, we weren't even close to putting our starting team on the field. No Portis. No Moss. Weapons #1 and #2. Campbell was throwing to a soon to be UPS worker named Marques Hagans. On defense, was Albert out there? Or Carlos? Me thinks those guys are a lot better than the guys who did play.

Third, some of the guys that will be needed or helpful showed progress/results. From what I heard/read, this group included Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Chad Rinehart, Jeremy Jarmon and even Mike Williams. And can anyone say "Orakpo" ... well, Sam Huff can't, but that's besides the point. The guys in this group have a shot at being somewhere between useful and important. Seems to me that they all are on a good track.

Fourth, do I really care if Dorsey or Aldrige or Tryon or Colt or Barnes struggled? In the big picture ... no. It'd be good if they were good, but I count on them in the way I'd count on Leigh Torrence. Fred Davis? He's a backup to a Pro Bowl player. Also not critical.

Fifth, the first team guys were rusty. So what. Its fine to be rusty now. I don't need London Fletcher to peak in August.

Well, count me bitter and not so sugar coated. No team enters a game with the hope of being shutout. I understand in preseason the coach is looking at personnel and how they do in specific packages, but, guys, nothing worked. The team could not sustain drives. There was a general lack of focus by the players and I think you have to blame Zorn's lackadaisical approach to training camp. You play how you practice... enough said.

Face it: Vinny wasted at least two high round picks on worthless receivers and a DB (Tryron: though he was a 4th as I recall) that shouldn't make the team. How would you like to have two second round tackles/guards with a year under their belt and fitting into the system right now???

I missed the game but just went over the box score...hopefully the few delusional souls who thought that Colt was the answer as the Skins starting QB have been jolted back into reality after that crap sandwich he doled out last night. What a stinker...

...this is what happens when you have "the worst evaluator of talent in the entire league" as you GM. Wake up Danny, Vinnie is a joke. How can you be the only one who does not know this? For those who did not see the game, it was much more lopsided then the score shows. If the Ravens hadnt continuously kept getting a ton of penalities, they would have had double the time of possession and the score would have been much worse. With the exception of Orakpo, Hall and maybe two or three more, the Skins' personell were clearly inferior across the board.
With Vinnie at the helm only a team that finds a way to consistently play way above its head will have a chance of winning.
Its funny, because this team stinks and its not even the players or the coaches fault.

I didn't see last night's game, so I can't comment. I can comment on the hysteria that was RI last night, and the moonbats up here have already worked themselves into mid-season form. We've got some Pro Bowl caliber nutsies. "Carlos Rogers, you suck" to a guy who's not even on the field?

This is Washington, and there's plenty of blame to go around, but I'm trying to figure out who's most to blame for last night:

Im stuck on the Jersey Shore and couldnt find the game on the internet so I was stuck in 1920 listening to it on the radio. I thought we were going to be in more trouble than the way Sam, Sonny and Larry made it sound, the fact our first team couldnt even get the kicking competition heated is a little room for concern but it was still the first time these guys have played a game since last December. We can go 0-4 in the preseason and I'll be happy, as long as that 4th game is competitive and our first team leaves the game with us in the lead.

Sam and Sonny were overly critical of the second team O especially the OL. From the sound of things it wasnt completely Colt. They made it sound like he was running for his life and the fact he led the game in rushing yards he apparently was. For the people saying they hope London's age hasnt caught up with him stop! You dont go from a Pro Bowl type year to complete garbage the next, unless there is a mojor injury there is usually a slight decline in play and if London is declining he is still better than 25 other startnig MLB's in the game.

I guess the coaches will have an easy job cutting guys. Not many of the unknown guys made any plays to stand out. I really couldn’t believe all the dropped passes, interceptions, and missed tackles. It just seemed like our guys played with no effort and the Ravens played with a lot of passion, even if it’s just preseason. Don't these long shot guys want to stick?! They didn’t seem ready to play at all.

Good things- Kelly had the (only) highlight of the night, a 3rd and 5 catch from Collins. Orakpo was close to the QB everytime, and DHall looked good... which is really good cuz Tryon got beat at least 3 times and Barnes looked lost.

BTW, isn't it just a LITTLE worrisome that we could not even score 3 points in a PRESEASON game??

Mr. Smoot stays in Washington. I think it's safe to assume that Justin Tryouts will not be making the trip to the Meadowlands for the opener.

The kool-aid is bittersweet on this game. Rak looks great...at defensive end. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of playing him there every down. JC17...well he didn't turn the ball over or take a sack. Mike Williams didn't look like an overmatched freakshow. Oh, and keep in mind that 2 of our "Big Three" (Portis, Moss, Cooley) were held out of the game on O, and our Big One (Haynesworth) was held out on D.

I REALLY want Jason Campbell to succeed, but my gut (and not just based on last night) tells me this guys may not be the answer. It seems to me that the stars must be aligned for him to make plays. Sure protection is critical and he does well when he has a ton of time, but protections on all teams breakdown at some points...he's gotta make plays.

I am in no way saying that Todd Collins is the answer, but he looks more relaxed and in command of himself. Troy Smith had little protection last night and he moved around and made plays.

Nothing to get too excited about, and nothing to get too low about. Glad to hear about the triplets contributing save for those fumbles, and Rhino, hoping this was just a bump in the road for Tryon. Good no injuries, and good that Vick is an Eagle.....thats all I got....

Rick, I think I'm feeling the same thing, I'm not saying that Campbell can't be the guy, but I look at Flacco, and you see that he's got 'it', its his second year in that offense, and it seems to be clicking, this is JC's second year in this offense, and we're still seeing dump-offs, nothing DOWN the field. I'm reserving more judgement until about week 8 of the regular season....something doesn't seem right however.....

Basically JC will never get better, he's an average QB at best. Nothing spectacular, just solid. He will never be a play-making quarterback. Even dumb Flacco looked more poised than JC. Rickyroge, I have to agree, I don't think JC is the answer.

I look at Flacco and see a guy who's sure of what's he's doing, confident, and knows exactly where to go with the ball and gets it out quickly... and Jason is still pump faking 20 times and getting happy feet before overthrowing a wide open Hagans near the side line.

te, no, not by a long shot, what I'm saying is that I'm not seeing what I think I should be seeing with JC. I think there should be more progress with this cat, I'm not making any kind of judgements, at this point......

Taking any positives away from the game is looking at it through rose colored glasses.

The Oline looked good because the Ravens held Suggs out and did not blitz with the exception of a few plays. There was no running room.

While Orakpo looked good I would temper my enthusiasm. He was going against the Ravens 3rd string LT. That guy could not block anyone all night. The Ravens rookie destroyed Renaldo Wynn. I can't remember the last time I saw an NFL player get pancaked like that and certainly not by a rookie. The game was 23-0 and it was not even that close. The difference in the quality of players on the 2nd unit of both teams was astounding. The Ravens 2nd unit defense looked outstanding.

"I REALLY want Jason Campbell to succeed, but my gut (and not just based on last night) tells me this guys may not be the answer. It seems to me that the stars must be aligned for him to make plays..."

Jason Campbell will never get the tools to succeed here. The only QB that could help this team win is a guy who can win a game basically on his own. Which leaves you Big Ben and MAYBE Michael Vick.

"I am in no way saying that Todd Collins is the answer, but he looks more relaxed and in command of himself. Troy Smith had little protection last night and he moved around and made plays."

Please never compare these two QBs again...one is a system QB with the mobility of a sloth and the other is an athletic QB who may actually have a future in this league. Collins looked relaxed because he knows he's not starting and he's got nothing to prove.

Talent...I actually thought the FO was onto something when they tried to dump Campbell. Don't get me wrong, you need to see the whole movie. This team's woes are not all on JC, but I just don't get the feeling this guy is the one.

Brownwood...System QB or not, TC seems to play instinctively. JC may have all the tools, but he lacks that intangible "IT" factor.

We can rationalize all we want...O-line, WR's, Dan Snyder, Vinny Cerrato, draft picks, this team has a dysfuntional offense that does not look like any other in the league. Zorn can "teach" Campbell all he wants, but you can't teach moxie, and JC has yet to show it.

You're right...if you think those guys can all win games by themselves, you're nuts. Peyton Manning is a great player, but he has been blessed with outstanding receivers and the same offense since Day 1, as has Philip Rivers. Tom Brady and Drew Brees I'll grant you.

Bottom line is that JC isn't one of those guys. But you don't HAVE to have one of those guys if you put a good team around him. I think in a smashmouth offense (and, you know, the SAME offense for more than a year) JC could be really good. He's just not going to get that in Washington.

Bean - don't you think the fact that he is jumpy has something to do with the fact he's been getting drilled into the ground for 3 years? Admittedly, QBs in the NFL have to have a short memory, but jeez, the guy is a tackling dummy out there.

Weren't the Redskins leading the league in rushing through 8 games last year?? And isn't this JC's 2nd year in the offense?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 14, 2009 8:53 AM

I'm pretty sure Atlanta did, but then again I don't specialize in stats after 8 weeks. And since 2009 is exactly one preseason game old, Campbell HAS only played one season in this offense.

And if the law of averages plays out, it's also his last season in this offense.

Point is, Campbell is a guy who would do best in a stable organization that gives him the tools and the time to flourish. Washington ain't that place.

And besides that, I don't see where the Redskins think they're gonna upgrade. They don't have anyone currently on the roster who's better and they likely won't see anything in free agency that will be a marked improvement.

brown, this is what his 5th year in the league....stop blaming it on the FO, and start seeing that maybe JC has some holes in his game. Compare the two qb's last night, compare what they have to work with, both being in the 2nd year of their offense, I'd say that JC has a better RB, better TE, and better WR, but somehow Flacco is grasping/executing it at a higher level. Is that Snyders fault?

Orakpo is a monster. That tackle held him on every play he rushed the passer and he still got consistent pressure.

Posted by: Original_etrod | August 14, 2009 6:42 AM | Report abuse

Exactly, and they only called holding on him once. I even saw them hold Carter without calling it. I sure hope refs compete for jobs in the preseason as well. Despite the many penelties they called on Baltimore they still missed alot of holding calls.

P.S. On third down Orakapo is going to be a force on the outside. With Big Al in the middle. Oh man, this D is going to crush people.

That's the funniest sh** I've read all morning, Roethlisberger is at his best when on the run. DEFENSIVE LINEMEN have trouble bringing him down.

"How quickly we forget the 6-2 first half and "Campbell for MVP" talk last year"

Funny, I recall a certain RB that wears 26 was the main reason why they started off so well. And as for the "Campbell for MVP" talk, I think you "misremember".

That was Portis, cause you know, he was leading the league in rushing and all. Campbell didn't have the numbers to be in the MVP talk. All he did was throw no INTs through the first half -- in large part due to what Portis was doing on the ground.

But I think you're one of the Portis detractors anyway, so it doesn't surprise me that you'll make a statement like this.

"Bettis" returns to the NFL
Posted by Mike Florio on August 14, 2009 7:51 AM ET
Lost in the shuffle created by the return of Mike Vick to an NFL team is that another recognizable name that hasn't appeared in pro football for a few years is back, in the very same division where Vick will play.

Sort of.

According to Dan Steinberg of the Washington Post, the jersey of Redskins running back Ladell Betts contained an extra letter during Thursday night's preseason game against the Ravens.

Instead of Betts, the 'Skins had "Bettis."

"I didn't know," Betts said after the game, per Steinberg. "I don't think anybody noticed it until about midway through the first quarter. I had no idea. Somebody came up to me with a jersey and said, 'We need to change your jersey,' and I was like, 'What's wrong?' I thought maybe my jersey was ripped. . . . Actually, I do like Jerome Bettis, but I don't prefer to have his name on my back."

We could give the Redskins' equipment crew the benefit of the doubt on this one if " Bettis" were an undrafted rookie slapdick, destined to be included in the first wave of roster cuts.

But "Bettis" has been a member of the Redskins for SEVEN YEARS.

Then again, we don't rule out foul play, with someone like Chris Cooley responsible for the prank.

Flounder, what TTTH said -- drop me a line at nateinthepdx at gmail and I'll set you up with the fantasy F-ball.

If I get a bunch more people interested -- and again, anybody and everybody up here is welcome to join! -- I'd be happy to set up a second (but in no way inferior) RI league. Just let me know... draft time approaches.

I misremember it about the same way. Portis and Campbell for MVP, Pro Bowel, etc. through 8 games.

BUT, it was RI talk, just like the RI talk that would flush both of them down the toilet like this morning's terds. And some of the talk was by the same people talking out of both sides of their mouth, though not in the same post.

They could maintain consistency for at least a paragraph. (Assuming that's a good thing).

Re: the following thread, I've got this existential question about whether Type can truly be Lost if it can't even be entered in the first place...

I too am eager to hear Mr. Zorn explain that -- and yeah, yeah, I get that it was a meaningless exhibition game -- his offense was shut out. I don't like that one little bit. Hard to swagger when you're looking up at a goose egg on the scoreboard. Or something like that.

If I get a bunch more people interested -- and again, anybody and everybody up here is welcome to join! -- I'd be happy to set up a second (but in no way inferior) RI league. Just let me know... draft time approaches.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | August 14, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

I was in the second (but no way inferior league) last year. And the only thing that was inferior about it was my running back corps.

Mr.Tryons statement in the WaPo:
"I can tell right when the play is over whether I played it right or wrong," Tryon said. "There were a couple times tonight that I was wrong, couple times I should've been lined up on the inside. So now you know for next time."

WTF!!Did he really say that shti!Thats like saying I can tell right away if I'm a millionaire right after the powerball number comes out.If this guy is still on the team after today,he is officially Jimoh 2.0.Maybe he has pictures of Snyder with hot chick and threatened to send them to his wife.I cant think of any other reason he is still on this squad.

brown, this is what his 5th year in the league....stop blaming it on the FO, and start seeing that maybe JC has some holes in his game. Compare the two qb's last night, compare what they have to work with, both being in the 2nd year of their offense, I'd say that JC has a better RB, better TE, and better WR, but somehow Flacco is grasping/executing it at a higher level. Is that Snyders fault?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 14, 2009 9:15 AM

Get Flacco out of the conversation. He's got nothing to do with the Redskins. And besides that, he and Ryan are the exception and not the rule.

You're getting on JC because he doesn't have "it". Fine. Most QBs don't. But you don't have to have "it" to win in this league if you've got a good team around him. Brad Johnson sure didn't have "it" and he was the last Redskins QB to make a Pro Bowl and he won a title with Tampa. So a QB with "it" is nice, but it's not required.

And I never said JC doesn't have holes. He does hold the ball too long, which doesn't help an already struggling O-line. But I just resent the notion that the offense in general is inept because of Campbell and not the other 10 guys who are out there screwing up.

But I think you're one of the Portis detractors anyway, so it doesn't surprise me that you'll make a statement like this.

Posted by: RedDMV | August 14, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

I want what your smokin man. Nobody loves CP more than me. I proudly wear his jersey every Sunday. But if you don't thikn that CP AND JC's success is largely contingent upon the O-line, you don't really understand football. Campbell was sacked 38 times last year and I'm quite certain 2/3 of those were in the final 8 games. It's not a coincidence that when 26 "broke down" and JC "crapped the bed" it was when the line play dropped off.

WTF!!Did he really say that shti!Thats like saying I can tell right away if I'm a millionaire right after the powerball number comes out.If this guy is still on the team after today,he is officially Jimoh 2.0.Maybe he has pictures of Snyder with hot chick and threatened to send them to his wife.I cant think of any other reason he is still on this squad.

Posted by: smittdiddy | August 14, 2009 9:45 AM

He gets this from RI. We can tell as soon as we see a player in action whether Vinnie has made the right draft picks or not.

As for why he's on the team, go back and read what his mentor, Darrell Green said about him the other day. Of course, DG may be saying something different about him today.

brown, kind of hard to say that Brad Johnson didn't have "it" when he threw for 4,000 yards. It's not like that's average.

LMG, I'm not sharing... but when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. My bad. There are so many 26 haters up here, it's easy to get mixed up. No doubt about how the line play is key6 for both Campbell and Portis. I posted a theory, although obvious, on this blog the other day.

bean, one name for you: David Carr. But Roelisthberger is probably two or three on that list for sure.

DMV you need to take a valium bro. I was making a point that people are way too fast to heap praise just as they are too quick to throw a guy under the bus. I know enough to know that I don't know enough to write JC off nor say he deserves a 5 year extension at this point. As Beantown said, he SHOULD, if he's our guy, show improvement in year 2 of the WCO...but that greatly depends on the O-line not breaking down like a '76 Pinto. Not sure what about that gives you heartburn.

HAIL

p.s. if you ever call me a Portis detractor again I shall be forced to challenge you to a duel, slanerous swine

Well, count me bitter and not so sugar coated. No team enters a game with the hope of being shutout. I understand in preseason the coach is looking at personnel and how they do in specific packages, but, guys, nothing worked. The team could not sustain drives. There was a general lack of focus by the players and I think you have to blame Zorn's lackadaisical approach to training camp. You play how you practice... enough said.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | August 14, 2009 2:48 AM |

All you need for proof positive on this is the comment by Edwin Williams re: Md. undrafted players doing well..."practice at md. was much harder than what we've done here". I'm paraphrasing, but that was the basic message. THIS NO GOOD. VERY BAD.

Well, I didn’t get to watch the game last night, it was blacked out on both Comcast and MASN. If next weeks game is blacked out on NFLN I will go nutso! Last year the Skins/jets preseason game (I mean skins/Brett Favre game) was shown live on NFLN and it was blacked out up here…….listened to the first half on the espn980 online feed which came in nicely. Sounds like Orakpo, MKelly, Rhinehart and Dthomas are looking better. That’s about it for the good news I suppose. But it was just the first game, no biggie.

I did watch the highlights on Sportsrise. I love when they interview, you know, Malcolm Kelly and Devin, you know, Thomas. Those guys, you know, always have you know positive things to you know say. But I am you know happy with how they you know played.

I’ll say it again, last preseason was a complete stinker, and they then went 6-2……don’t hit the panic button yet.

What? Midway MVP? Half those teams were .500 or below, one of them played so bad he got benched, one publicly criticized his own play after coming directly off of surgery to start the season, and another was a rookie who struggled out of the gate but got hotter as the season wore on. Only Eli entered that discussion, and Campbell's stats pretty clearly outshined Eli's in the first half.

Seriously, you just dropped names without thinking on that one. That's like me saying Clinton Portis wasn't a midway MVP candidate because these guys were:

It is interesting to read all the comments and none of them address the coaching. I was unable to see the first half, but can see the overall stat's from the game. You have to start wondering is it the play calling or execution or both. Either way a big part of both relate to the staff. it does not matter if it was the first preseason game, you still need to be competitive. Here are some glaring stat's

3rd-Down efficiency 1-11-9%
Total net yards 196
Average yards per pass 4.4
Time of Possession 24:16

Everyone take a breath...its not hard...Campbell has a season to show if he is a starter (ie an effective leader, low mistake ratio, ability to focus when its the most confusing and the physical tools to execute the plays) or if he is Tony Banks. So far in his career he has given ample evidence that he could be either.

Tryon did look lost out there a lot, no doubt. But I can't give up on him yet. Darrell Green said he believes he will be a starter in this league, I have to put some stock in that (but yes he looked pretty bad last night)

"On a third-down play on the Redskins' first possession, Campbell had an inordinate amount of time to survey the field and throw to wide receiver Marques Hagans, who mistimed his jump along the far sideline and failed to come up with the ball. The line provided Campbell with exceptional protection on the play, and Rinehart kept pace with the group.

By: JReid
"

The way I saw it, it was a high pass. Hagans jump was timed very well....

psps, what game did McNabb get benched? Don't remember Ryan struggling out the gate, he was pretty consistent the entire season.

debating, or a back and forth with you would get no where. You're biased when it comes to Campbell because that's your boy and you ALWAYS refuse to see otherwise. Unlike you, I see BOTH the good and bad with Campbell. JC could have a game where goes 11-27, 150 0 TDs and 3 INTs, and you'll still pour syrup on that sh** and call it french toast.

sort of like saying that Reggie Bush has to date more of an impact than Mario Williams. when it comes to these things you're the most stubborn person up here, mines as well start chanting "la-la-la-la" and holding your hands over your ears when it comes to things like this.

you see it one way, I see it both.

and in the first half of the season, portis led the league in rushing, i think even over Adrian Peterson, so take that "fake" RB rationalization elsewhere.

I don't think Tryon did terrible. He had some good tackles. And he will still be the 4th CB ahead of Barnes.....

I believe what he said. He needs this game experince so he can learn from his mistakes. Like Mike Vick...

He'll know next time to get a better jam on 3rd and short....

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 14, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

1) Nope, was on the sidelines in street clothes
2)"He had some nice tackles" generally ain't a rousing endorsement of a CB's play...yea, he tackled great...after getting torched 4-5 times.
3)I have seen real evidence yet that Vick has not only learned from his mistakes but that he is genuinely contrite. Maybe he is but I'm guessing he's more sorry he got cuaght and it cost him tens of millions of dollars. Big difference. (almost) everyone deserves a second chance but doesn't mean I have to give it to them. I for one am glad the Skins didn't sign that pieve of trash.
4)Shouldn't a 2nd yr corner already know to jam on 3rd and short, esp. when his guy has been owning him on the quick slant?

and just fyi, psps, I'm not in the crowd that thinks that Campbell will never find success with this team. I'm just not buying what the dude is selling, while you've fully invested into what he's shoveling.

In no way was a Campbell an MVP, maybe with this team. but not the entire league. Why? Becasue he threw no picks, while the offense was heavily reliant on running the ball?

I know Campbell is your baby's daddy and all, but take off the JC17 shades for a week or two.

Baltimore Ravens. In the first half of the season, McNabb had 8 TDs, 3 INTs, and 4 games with a passer rating under 81.

"Don't remember Ryan struggling out the gate, he was pretty consistent the entire season."

Through the first 4 weeks of the season, Ryan had 669 yards, went 55 for 105, 52% completion, 2 TDs, and 2 INTs. Yea, he was certainly consistent all season long. Pure MVP numbers right there.

"JC could have a game where goes 11-27, 150 0 TDs and 3 INTs, and you'll still pour syrup on that sh** and call it french toast."

Interesting theory, but I pretty harshly criticized him after Pitt and Baltimore last season. But, unlike you and others, I tend to look at the ENTIRE picture following a game, and not a simple snapshot of what his numbers looked like. Unfortunately for you, I understand there are several factors that contribute to passing stats. Not just "it", as so many lovingly and ignorantly claim to see.

I was at the game last night and I didn't think the offense line blocked effectively at all. There was no room to run, little down field blocking, and very poor pass protection. The Ravens defensive players applied constant pressure -- with almost no blitzes -- all night long.

I liked Flacco's quote: "I didn't have to do anything but sit in the pocket and make the throws" -- when is the last time a Redskins QB said that!!!

The offense was really ugly; although WR Kelly looked good catching a few 1st downs. I hope the Skins can stabilize the offensive line or it will be a very long season playing against the aggressive NFC East defenses...

In addition, I thought the punt returns and special team blocking was pretty unimpressive.

psps, whatever homie. you're the main one that runs and cut and paste stats to back up your buls***. You do it EVERYTIME. So don't try that glue, sticks to, bounces crap with me, okay?

again, debating with you gets no one anywhere with you. You're like a f'n spoiled brat when it's time to get out of the moon bonce when it comes to this stuff.

so go ahead and keep punishing that sh** you're sweetening. newsflash a-hole: you're not the genius you and you're bloated ego pretends to be, so take your cut and paste stats, along with your "psps23's holier than thou rationlization" and shove it, got it?

One thing I did notice is the Ravens offense completed several medium and long pass plays in 2-3 seconds. The Skins offense is not that fluid. Hard to say if the pass protection is the problem or the QB's decision making... it might be both.

JM, obviously in some universal moral spectrum killing a person is worse than dog. I am certainly not arguing that. But its more complex than that and its not a direct correlation. Intent vs negligence is one key difference.

But whateves, like I said I am pro-vick second chance. so not going to argue further.

Put yourself in that situation JM220…..pretty sure you don’t drink, but say you did…..You have a few beers and you’re driving home and get into an accident that kills someone. You didn’t mean to, and it was, as they say, an accident. Do you need to be “rehabilitated”? If so for how long? And shouldn’t taking away your driver’s license prevent it from happening again? It really is apples/oranges with vick/stallworth. Vick killed “only” dogs, yes. But he meant to. He made a choice and did it many times over, in very sadistic manners. He didn’t just “humanely” kill one of the dogs with a shot to the head for instant death…no; in one instance he used his gun to merely wound the animal, and then threw it into a swimming pool to watch it drown. Then he lied about everything to everyone about it until his buddies turned on him. Very different to me……

Manslaughter - The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.

Manslaughter is a distinct crime and is not considered a lesser degree of murder. The essential distinction between the two offenses is that malice aforethought must be present for murder, whereas it must be absent for manslaughter. Manslaughter is not as serious a crime as murder. On the other hand, it is not a justifiable or excusable killing for which little or no punishment is imposed.

-----------------------------------------------

So, while not legally 'murder', it's still an 'unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing '.

careful..."murder" is not exactly accurate word selection for Stallworth. It may have been vehicular homicide, but "murder" used in a sentence implies wanton/intentional action.

NOW, as for jm's point that "some damn dog" (which is despicable of you to say, by the way) vs. killing a human - surely any reasonable person agrees the life of an innocent man is more valuable than that of an innocent dog (I preface innocent because I'd take my dog over any bad person in a heartbeat)...however, you are as CL said, making a very erroneous analogy here. I am in NO WAY condoning driving drunk - I lost a dear college friend to it - but it is not clear how much his sobriety or lack thereof had to do with the man tragically dying. The guy ran in front of his car! He was likely impaired (I think he blew a .12) but was that the reason the man died? Hard to say. Further, Stallworth had no INTENT to harm that man. His judgement was poor, no doubt. But he never intedned to harm. Vick's cold cruel ass killed dogs with his own two hands. You wanaa debate Vick fine. BUt let's not talk apples and oranges

Red, keep on, keep truckin'. You're getting a little too sensitive here for my taste. I can't help it if the claims you made were incorrect. I called you out. Deal with it. You wanna call me out? Great. Just don't become emotional jello when I fire back.

I will (and have) concede an argument if it actually makes sense, or at the very least, acknowledge the merit of it. Sorry if the claim that Matt Ryan and Donovan McNabb were more of MVP candidates than Jason Campbell at the midway point doesn't fit that billing. But keep chompin' at the bit Red. Maybe one day, you'll convince yourself.

CL, John, and DL, this was not the first time he was drinking and driving so that he didn't mean to do it don't hold too much weight with me. If it was his time time maybe. No I don't drink but all my friends do and I have taken the keys from them including a co worker at a Christmas Party. (yeah I gave him a look of don't make me throw your ass in my truck)Just like Vick made the choice of killing the dogs so did Stallworth of driving again after drinking.

How sad it is to see that a number of our bloggers seem to hold the canine species in such low regard. Man's best friend deserves a little better than that. And why is it that this has become a racial issue? Vick is trash, I don't give a $h!t what color he is. I know plenty of white and black trash alike (and colors in between). Yet there seems to be an undeniable correlation between race and acceptance or even embracing of Vick. I don't get it. Why do many or even most black players seem to champion this guy despite what he's done? This wasnt a racial prosecution. The man did some unspeakable things to dogs and broke about a dozen laws, served less than half of his sentence and is already making almost $2 million this season, yet most players act as though he's some victim. Give me a break. Tell that to the real victims, the dogs he hung and shot and threw into a pool to drown. He deserves a second chance alright...in the VA Penal League. F VICK

hasnt he always? after busted for drugs, after flicking off the crowd, after murdering dogs with his hands...he's always "So sorry"...this guy is trash, wake up Skins fans and stop backing a bad guy. There are plenty of good guys in this league to root for. To boot, he's a friggin Eagle. Jesus

CL, John, and DL, this was not the first time he was drinking and driving so that he didn't mean to do it don't hold too much weight with me. If it was his time time maybe. No I don't drink but all my friends do and I have taken the keys from them including a co worker at a Christmas Party. (yeah I gave him a look of don't make me throw your ass in my truck)Just like Vick made the choice of killing the dogs so did Stallworth of driving again after drinking.
Posted by: jm220 | August 14, 2009 11:13 AM

We could go back and forth all day on this. Yes, bottom line, everyone’s action stem from choices, but stallworth chose to drink and drive (which is wrong, yes) but he did not choose to kill someone, nor to lie about it after the fact. You didn’t answer my question about who you feel needs to be “rehabilitated”…..Just one question for you. Who would you rather (If you HAD to choose) your daughter bring home to say she was going to marry? Michael Vick or Donte Stallworth?

hasnt he always? after busted for drugs, after flicking off the crowd, after murdering dogs with his hands...he's always "So sorry"...this guy is trash, wake up Skins fans and stop backing a bad guy. There are plenty of good guys in this league to root for. To boot, he's a friggin Eagle.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | August 14, 2009 11:20 AM

Funny thing is Eagles fans are the most outraged by his signing. But then again, Eagles fans hate EVERYTHING...

LMG - I know of dogfighting rings whn I was growing up. It was prevalent if you were in the 'know'. While we knew it was illeagal, it was part of an American culture most of the mainstream did not know about. Vick has said he was a follower and didn't have a strong enough mind to just quit it as he became famous. Now, he had to hit the problem head on, which he has.

Mike Vick IS me. I messed up once which caused serious reprications to me, my family, and my future carreer/earning potential. I paid my debt to society and was ready to move on. If my work field was 32 NFL Owners, I would say only about 10 of those 32 teams/opportunities were willing to give me a chance. I took the best of those chances and excelled and redeemed nyself to the point that if I ever opened up at work, no one would EVER believe me.

I am listening to the conference now and he appears to be very humble. He deserves a 2nd chance.......

"I ran over a squirrel with my car the other day. Darted in front of the car...nothing I could do to avoid him."

"I ran over a squirrel with my car the other day. Saw him standing in the middle of the road...gunned it as fast as I could to make sure I squashed him good!"

Difference? Malice. That makes the very clear, very important distinction between murder and manslaughter. [Yes, a squirrel is a poor example, but I did 'manslaughter' one the other day on Rt. 3, so that's what's fresh in my mind.]

CL, your entitled to your point but sorry you think that a vigorous debate = stupidity. Unfortunate. I feel strongly about something and I'm going to express my beliefs, based on facts when possible, if sometimes in raw emotion/personal belief well so be it. That's life.

4th, I am glad that you overcame your past mistakes to redeem yourself and your family. Truly I am. But I will not accept that this was a "cultural" thing, not for one second. I have plenty of friends from all backgrounds in this country. While white, I spent a good deal of my life in Tidewater as a kid. THis ain't accepted by any culture. It's accepted by cruel, bad people. It is NOT how you treat the most loyal, loving, intelligent animal on the planet.

Vick has continually expressed contrition over the years but his mistakes have only gotten exponentially worse. Maybe his most grievous error will have the most impact on him changing but you might just might forgive/undertand my skepticism...

really. I don't guess you own a dog JM. If someone killed my dog intentionally, I guran-godd@mn-tee you he'd kiss Satan's a$$ to only serve two yrs in jail.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG

No I don't as a Muslim we know they are not clean animals not as bad as pigs but no clean. And for the record if a person killed my child drinking and driving you best believe it will be their ass!! It no I didn't mean to do it. Specially if they was charge with drinking and driving before.

I brought up the cultural thing only in context, not to make an excuse. Though I knew about it, and went to a few fights, I never would have involved myself in it. That being said, he should have divorced himself from it like ST21 did after his daughter was born. Though, it took his daughter's birth to realize he needed to grow up, atleast he did it before the law made him do it.

No more Vick/Stallworth talk for me today. I'm not judge to anyone.....

=============================================

Robert Henson looks good. I like his size. He has a good chance replacing Fletcher next year.....

dlhaze1 sorry for not answering your question. I believe they both need rehab. I also believe they both need to put better people around them. To be honest I don't think my daughters would bring either one home but if they did. I would give both a chance to prove that they really turn their life around.

I brought up the cultural thing only in context, not to make an excuse. Though I knew about it, and went to a few fights, I never would have involved myself in it. That being said, he should have divorced himself from it like ST21 did after his daughter was born. Though, it took his daughter's birth to realize he needed to grow up, atleast he did it before the law made him do it.

No more Vick/Stallworth talk for me today. I'm not judge to anyone.....

=============================================

Robert Henson looks good. I like his size. He has a good chance replacing Fletcher next year.....

really. I don't guess you own a dog JM. If someone killed my dog intentionally, I guran-godd@mn-tee you he'd kiss Satan's a$$ to only serve two yrs in jail.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG

No I don't as a Muslim we know they are not clean animals not as bad as pigs but no clean. And for the record if a person killed my child drinking and driving you best believe it will be their ass!! It no I didn't mean to do it. Specially if they was charge with drinking and driving before.

Posted by: jm220 | August 14, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

You should really stop talking/writing so as to stop looking like a complete idiot. And learn to spell as well.

p.s. I can't believe I'm addressing this but I will - "as a Muslim..."??@!!! Are you FKING KIDDING ME??!! Now it's a religious objection. I have no less than 10 Muslim friends with dogs who love them every bit as much as me. I really despise (note- I didn't say hate, too many people throw hate around, which is why people like Vick end up doin what they do) people that hide behind religion. Don't worry, you're not alone there. FAR from it. But Christian, Jew, Muslim - anyone that does it is pathetic.

Not LMG: And that sorta thinking, to me, is why we are where we are at with about every problem in society. Everyone takes there corner,puffs out there chests, talks from there heart/gut and not there brain.

i am pro-thinking, solutions, compromise, empathy and listening to other people.

JM is wrong b/c he is being overly simplistic in his correlation between two disparate incidences. Intent, the law, jurisdiction....all are key differences. Take dogs out of it and Vick and crue were still dealing in multi-state organized and intentional law breaking. Add all the culture of acceptance you want but running numbers and bookies are common in all cities but its still systamatic and high level planning to break the law, thus the seriousness of the crime.

You are wrong b/c you talk about people being trash, get hotly emotional about, talk about vigilantly responses and basically talk in a want to fight and be right manner.

The issues are complex and when all of us deny there complexity and fail to view it in context than there is zero chance for any of this to be transformative to Vick, the NFL, the culture, society or the law.

outside of the soft endorsement of "its was accepted" (wow that is a slippery slope...) that 4th discusses I do find the rest of what he describes to be dead on.

Our justice and penal system is conceptaually built on reform. In that context, germane to the specifics of his case, Vick has the right to attempt to put his life back together. Society benifits when it scaffolds his release in a way that allows him pathways to be a better person. Obviously only time will tell, but no one could argue that he chance of sucesses rests increases on his current path than if he was banished to "the street".

Agreed. And I'm with you 4th, I'm done with this talk. I apologize to all (except JM220) for getting so fired up but Vick does that to me, coupled with the gasoline on the fire from a certain ignoramus on this blog.

good cause you ain't gettin it. yea, it was childish to call you a jackass. I shouldn't sink to your level. Good luck with using religion to justify your other narrow-minded and uncompassionate views on life bro

sorry Judge Larry for being "wrong"...thank you for sorting me out. I feel so rehabilitated...

Evderyone's entitled to their opinion, didn't ever mean to say/suggest otherwise. Just bothers me when religion is invoked in such manners. Frustrates me when people of all religions hide behind twist what was intended to be a beautiful thing of love and inclusion into an instrument of exclusion and harm

LMAO! When did I act like a child because you didn't agree with me? I don't use religion to justify anything. I am a man and take responsibility for what I do and think. I don't use religion to hide behind period!!!!

Hey all, I'm new to this so bare with me.. The rout last night was pretty bad but in all honest it WAS a preseason game.. Get beat but to come out without any injuries I can live with but in any case it still is discouraging that the players that we're said to come out prove themselves after a terrible rookie seasons(i.e. Justin "burn me once shame on me.. burn me twice..shame on me again.. burn me three times, I should move on" Tryon) provides serious doubts to why they're here.

On another note.. Did anyone pay attention to Michael Oher?? He absolutely handled a I believe Reynaldo Wynn.. I'm ecstatic that we got Rak in the first round he's a beast, but in a perfect world, I would have loved to get Rak and Oher in the first round. This guy from ole miss can definately play..

On another note.. Did anyone pay attention to Michael Oher?? He absolutely handled a I believe Reynaldo Wynn.. I'm ecstatic that we got Rak in the first round he's a beast, but in a perfect world, I would have loved to get Rak and Oher in the first round. This guy from ole miss can definately play..

Posted by: redshot84 | August 14, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Yes, that would be nice to have 2 first rounders. But generally teams with good FO's have such a cache of picks.

I'm also excited about District 9 b/c Peter Jackson is involved, and I think the Lord of the Rings trilogy might be the best movies of all time (arguably, of course).
Posted by: p1funk | August 14, 2009 12:30 PM

Certainly the best movie that stuck to the letter of the novels….make sense? Did I say that right? You know, translates from book to movie seamlessly. Not the best MOVIE(s) ever IMO though.

I have a buddy that wants to do a sizeable prop bet on Portis rush yards this year. He has proposed an over/under of 1,250. My heart says "take the over!" but my head says "don't touch!"

Thoughts?

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | August 14, 2009 12:13 PM

I'll take the over on this.. but not by much. CP plays with heart but he also plays with a chip on his shoulder. Ladell Butts is said to have a bigger role this year and rightly so, Clinton is beat to h311 around week 12 every year.. My thing is that I belive he is desperately needed on long 3rd down situations mainly for blitz pickup..Our line can't do that if they wanted to