Subject:I dislike the early '00s

I can't really figure out why people have such fondness for the early '00s. My peak teen years were during the era so in theory I should miss them, but I don't. Here are a few reasons why.

1. Conformism. Early '00s culture was extremely conformist and you pretty much had to fall into the skater or prep category or be outcasted. Individualism was highly discouraged and if you had any hobbies or interests that were considered outside the norm, that was seen as a weakness and could have led to bullying.2. School shooting hysteria. Speaking of bullying, during the years following Columbine, school violence was always in the back of everyone's mind.3. 9/11. This one speaks for itself. 9/11 and the shift in politics in this country afterward was not a step forward for this country.4. Homophobia. The early '00s were an extremely homophobic time. While it wasn't quite as bad as it was in the mid '00s, if you had any quality that didn't line up with the alpha-male stereotype, you were labeled as gay. If you were gay in the early '00s there was a high chance you would be bullied and wouldn't have anyone defending you.5. Tech. Most people at the time were using slow Windows 98 or first-gen Windows XP computers on a dial-up connection. Yes, broadband was becoming more popular but a majority didn't have it until around 2004. It was a down-era for gaming as the N64 was phased out and the PC gaming era that began in late 2003 had not yet arrived. PS2 and the first Xbox were very underwhelming consoles. Furthermore, the years following the Dot-Com bust were a bad time to be in the tech industry.6. Recession. While the Great Recession in the late 2000s would be much worse, the early '00s marked the end of the Clinton economic boom.7. Movies. The movies of the early '00s for the most part were downright awful. Movies like "Legally Blonde", "The Sum of All Fears" with Ben Affleck and "Spider Man" with Toby McGuire are shining examples of the movies produced in the era.8. My personal life. It was just not good during the early '00s. I was bullied at school and had ultra-strict conservative parents that wouldn't allow me to be a normal teenager. Those years were like being in prison for me.

The one silver lining of the era was...of course..the music. The early '00s had some great music across all genres.

Thoughts?

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon04/29/16 at 3:31 pm

I... would somehow agree to this. But only the 9/11 and recession parts. Aside from that, I do think that the early '00s had some great movies and TV shows. It's probably because I'm more into the kid culture, since it does have a lot of stuff that I remembered. I could get that the mainstream culture sucked, since I prefer the mid-late 2000s mainstream culture.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Zelek2on04/29/16 at 3:35 pm

Spider-Man 1, a bad movie? BLASPHEMY!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 3:37 pm

Damn. Why you gotta throw ice. :(

I think people's favourite bands being popular then (and not later) has a lot to do with their love for the era. It'd be interesting to hear more teen/young adult perspectives on why they like the era. I know for us late 80s/early 90s/mid 90s people, we just like it because we were kids and there were great kid fads with Pokémon, N64, teen pop, Super Smash Bros., Avril Lavigne and all that junk.

As for not liking you peak teen years, I can definitely relate (and for similar reasons).

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 3:42 pm

Spider-Man 1, a bad movie? BLASPHEMY!

Let's be honest no non-animated Spiderman movie has ever been good, with the exception of Captain America Civil War. They're all varying degrees of God awful to tolerable.

I liked Legally Blonde though. Why you gotta throw shade. ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 3:46 pm

It's all up to opinion. That's all that needs to be said. Not everyone is going to like the same music, movies, games etc. Although not everyone (especially kids) were effected by things such as 9/11. No everyone's personal life was bad. It's also easy to sit back and say "I can't understand why people have such a fondness for ". I'm not the biggest fan of the 1990s, but I understand that everyone's opinions are different than mine. 9/11 didn't bother me and my personal life was good. Early 00's gaming is often said to be a great time due to their being so many PS2/GC/DC/XBox/PC fans (but what counts as a good gen for gaming is very subjective).

In short it's up to opinion. Even if you don't like an era just respect the fact that others have different views or weren't reality bothered by certain things.

I'll stick my neck and say that I never understood everyone and saying things like "9/11 ruined everything so Early '00s was a terrible time". 9/11 is not the only thing that happened. Also it's funny as I hear people talk about how they'd want to live in the 1930s-1940s despite there being the Great depression, World War 2, Cold War, Holocaust etc. But hey what do I know.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/29/16 at 3:47 pm

I thought the early 2000's was a great time period to be a kid as well as the mid 2000's, but I can understand why you didn't like the period especially if you were in your teens going through all that pressure in school, and you might have thought the mainstream pop culture at the time was overrated as well. As a kid in the early 2000's I did not care about 9/11, the political culture, or any of that gay/homophobic culture since I was too young to care and understand it. I was most likely playing with my lego toys, hot wheel cars, or watching Cartoon Network back then in my own kiddy world.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/29/16 at 3:52 pm

Let's be honest no non-animated Spiderman movie has ever been good, with the exception of Captain America Civil War. They're all varying degrees of God awful to tolerable.

I liked Legally Blonde though. Why you gotta throw shade. ;D

I was about to post something similar to this ;D

Not everything from the early 2000's was perfect either. Don't even get me started about the teenybopper culture at the time.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 3:53 pm

I was about to post something similar to this ;D

Not everything from the early 2000's was perfect either. Don't even get me started about the teenybopper culture at the time.

Hey no time period is perfect. Early 00's fashion makes me cringe sometimes. Popped button shirts and bow ties as belts? What was wrong with the world.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/29/16 at 3:54 pm

I think people's favourite bands being popular then (and not later) has a lot to do with their love for the era. It'd be interesting to hear more teen/young adult perspectives on why they like the era. I know for us late 80s/early 90s people, we just like it because we were kids and there were great kid fads with Pokémon, N64, teen pop, Super Smash Bros., Avril Lavigne and all that junk.

You mean early & mid 90's babies for the kid culture, and 80's babies for the mainstream culture.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon04/29/16 at 3:57 pm

You mean early & mid 90's babies for the kid culture, and 80's babies for the mainstream culture.

Some late 90s babies actually care for the early 2000s, but rather experienced that more in the mid 2000s.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 4:00 pm

Well usually kids don't suffer the same issues as teens or adults. Childhood innocence is a crazy thing. People always talk about the "Golden Age" that was their childhoods. When they become a teen the childlike fun tends to fade. I like my teen years, but my early teen years aren't that good. Usually depending on the era that you're a kid that same era is the one you tend to be most fond of (now this doesn't apply to everyone).

Early-Mid(and some late) 1990s born were kids in the early '00s which is why they love it. Teens don't like the era that kids grow up in. Adults don't like the era that teens are growing up in. This has been happening for decades.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 4:04 pm

You mean early & mid 90's babies for the kid culture, and 80's babies for the mainstream culture.

True

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon04/29/16 at 4:05 pm

Well usually kids don't suffer the same issues as teens or adults. Childhood innocence is a crazy thing. People always talk about the "Golden Age" that was their childhoods. When they become a teen the childlike fun tends to fade. I like my teen years, but my early teen years aren't that good. Usually depending on the era that you're a kid that same era is the one you tend to be most fond of (now this doesn't apply to everyone).

Early-Mid(and some late) 1990s born were kids in the early '00s which is why they love it. Teens don't like the era that kids grow up in. Adults don't like the era that teens are growing up in. This has been happening for decades.

No wonder why various 90s kids hate the 2000s, with more of them hating on the mid-late 2000s.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 4:06 pm

Well usually kids don't suffer the same issues as teens or adults. Childhood innocence is a crazy thing. People always talk about the "Golden Age" that was their childhoods. When they become a teen the childlike fun tends to fade. I like my teen years, but my early teen years aren't that good. Usually depending on the era that you're a kid that same era is the one you tend to be most fond of (now this doesn't apply to everyone).

Early-Mid(and some late) 1990s born were kids in the early '00s which is why they love it. Teens don't like the era that kids grow up in. Adults don't like the era that teens are growing up in. This has been happening for decades.

I think Chris gave better reasons than just hating because he was a teen. Sounds like he would've hated at any age (other than kid)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:bchris02on04/29/16 at 4:07 pm

A lot of people have mentioned the music as why they like the early '00s.

I did mention that the music was the silver lining for that era. While I didn't care for most of it, the music was great across all genres.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon04/29/16 at 4:10 pm

A lot of people have mentioned the music as why they like the early '00s.

I did mention that the music was the silver lining for that era. While I didn't care for most of it, the music was great across all genres.

So when did you think music started to suck?

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:bchris02on04/29/16 at 4:10 pm

And yeah, from everything I've heard, the early and mid '00s were awesome if you were a kid, but kid culture was irrelevant to me at the time. 1999 was the last year that I really was aware of the kid culture.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:bchris02on04/29/16 at 4:11 pm

So when did you think music started to suck?

Music was great from 1999 through about 2005. It sucked late 2005 into 2006. Was great gain from 2007-late 2012. It sucked from late 2012-late 2014, and has been good again since 2015.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 4:16 pm

Early 2000s TV shows were good too, from the ones I've watched. Friends, Becker Popular, Malcolm In The Middle, Charmed, Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Fraisier. I'm sure there a few others, but those are the ones I've watched.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon04/29/16 at 4:18 pm

Early 2000s music was one more step down the decline of popular music after the late 90s. More and more, pop started to explicitly mimic hip hop, abandoning its melodic sensibilities and new-jack swing type of rhythms. Suddenly, producers like the Neptunes and Timbaland were the greatest assets to artists like Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake, and Christina Aguilera. Though late 90s post-grunge songs like "My Own Prison," "Why I'm Here," and "You Wanted More" were still pretty true to that 90s spirit, the genre essentially severed any lingering ties to the 90s and became post-post-grunge with the breakthrough of Puddle of Mudd, Nickelback, etc. A great deal of these songs, across all genres, are still great, but there was also a higher presence of downright marginal material, which either had no new ideas or felt lowbrow compared to its 90s predecessors.

Everyday life itself was still pretty solid in the early 2000s, especially as Internet forums and instant messenger (NOT social media!) became much more common, but the shallow elements of life that we're stuck with today were definitely starting to become a little more evident during the period.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 4:27 pm

I think the some of the reasons listed in the OP is why I'd hate to be older than 13 in any era before the 2010s honestly. If you offered me a time machine to head back to any era (and still be 23), I would stay put.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/29/16 at 4:31 pm

And yeah, from everything I've heard, the early and mid '00s were awesome if you were a kid, but kid culture was irrelevant to me at the time. 1999 was the last year that I really was aware of the kid culture.

My kid culture ended around 2007. However, there were some kiddy stuff I grew out of before then. Even though I was still in my peak childhood throughout 2005 & 2006, for some reason by the time I was 9 & 10 I no longer played with hot wheels cars or built lego toys. I did more of that when I was around age 6-8. However, watching cartoons or kid sitcoms I did that throughout my whole peak childhood. Since my preteen years the only kid cultural stuff I may have liked are some good cartoons for kids that are very mature like Regular Show or Young Justice, or some good movies for kids that might have a few moments in there that adults could enjoy like Toy Story 3 thanks to growing up with Toy Story 1 & 2, Frozen which I thought was a little overrated but I could see why it's huge part of our pop culture now, or Big Hero 6 due to the (Marvel) comics.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 4:31 pm

I think Chris gave better reasons than just hating because he was a teen. Sounds like he would've hated at any age (other than kid)

As mentioned before. The things I mentioned doesn't apply to everyone. I mentioned "Usually depending on the era that you're a kid that same era is the one you tend to be most fond of (now this doesn't apply to everyone)." Everyone has different views, opinions, and reasons on why they didn't like an era.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 4:37 pm

I think the some of the reasons listed in the OP is why I'd hate to be older than 13 in any era before the 2010s honestly. If you offered me a time machine to head back to any era (and still be 23), I would stay put.

Same. As much as I enjoy my childhood I'd sure that I wouldn't want to go back and revisit an era at my current age.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 4:39 pm

Music was great from 1999 through about 2005. It sucked late 2005 into 2006. Was great gain from 2007-late 2012. It sucked from late 2012-late 2014, and has been good again since 2015.

Pretty much how I see it. Quality in music was like a rollercoaster.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 4:43 pm

As mentioned before. The things I mentioned doesn't apply to everyone. I mentioned "Usually depending on the era that you're a kid that same era is the one you tend to be most fond of (now this doesn't apply to everyone)." Everyone has different views, opinions, and reasons on why they didn't like an era.

That's true, a lot of people like to sugarcoat the era they were kids in, including me.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon04/29/16 at 4:48 pm

And yeah, from everything I've heard, the early and mid '00s were awesome if you were a kid, but kid culture was irrelevant to me at the time. 1999 was the last year that I really was aware of the kid culture.

The last year I became aware of kid culture was in 2010. Then after that, I didn't really care for it anymore. Aside from a few things, but not that much.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 4:54 pm

I've never lost complete touch with kid culture. The kids are watching Jessie right now.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 4:55 pm

That's true, a lot of people like to sugarcoat the era they were kids in, including me.

I do the same. If I went back to my kid era, but as an adult I'd probably criticize a lot of things. I assume this is due to kids being very easy to please (or at least that's what adults say).

This is me just blabbing out nonsense, but I assume some people sugarcoat their childhood in order to have an era that they enjoy. People tend to not like their teen years. And the adult years can be worse. People tend to feel attached to their childhood as out of the 3 eras it's the one with the least amount of issues. Although I'm sure there are people out there who hated their childhood and there are people who enjoy their teen years.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 4:57 pm

I've never lost complete touch with kid culture. The kids are watching Jessie right now.

I still have a hold on my childlike interests. I've matured in both mind and body, but my interests stayed the same. Although I'll admit that a lot of the things that I enjoyed as a kid don't hold up too well in modern day standards.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon04/29/16 at 4:59 pm

I think the some of the reasons listed in the OP is why I'd hate to be older than 13 in any era before the 2010s honestly. If you offered me a time machine to head back to any era (and still be 23), I would stay put.

That would be the opposite for me. I'd wish I was a teen in the 2000s (obviously), since I would be more happier about life and sh*t.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 5:01 pm

I do the same. If I went back to my kid era, but as an adult I'd probably criticize a lot of things. I assume this is due to kids being very easy to please (or at least that's what adults say).

This is me just blabbing out nonsense, but I assume some people sugarcoat their childhood in order to have an era that they enjoy. People tend to not like their teen years. And the adult years can be worse. People tend to feel attached to their childhood as out of the 3 eras it's the one with the least amount of issues. Although I'm sure there are people out there who hated their childhood and there are people who enjoy their teen years.

Sometimes it's fun to reminisce even when things are going well though. Even if my best days are ahead of me, I'll always look back on my childhood very fondly, and even my young adult years here in the 2010s.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 5:12 pm

Sometimes it's fun to reminisce even when things are going well though. Even if my best days are ahead of me, I'll always look back on my childhood very fondly, and even my young adult years here in the 2010s.

Truth be told I'm actually happy with my adult years. College was fun and developing computer software (major that I wanted to have since I was a kid). In fact if there is one thing that I hated about being a kid it's that I had NO power. Everyone telling me what to do and I can't do anything about it. Gotta head to bed at 8. Couldn't play video games when I wanted. Could never take more than 5 cookies from the cookie jar. And being hit with a belt whenever I got in trouble felt like a gun shot (I don't know what a gun shot feels like, but I know it hurts). #KidStruggles

As an adult I do what I want. Hang out with friends when I want. Got a nice paying job. And my career literally involves me making computer entertainment. I don't think I'd want to be a kid again. Heck I'll even probably miss my time in the 2010s as I don't think I ever had any really bad moments in the 2010s. No recession, crime rate is low, love the new innovative tech, personal life is good, like the movies, love the cartoons. I don't have much of a reason to think that the 2010s are terrible. But not everyone will see it the same way like I do.

Now I also love my kid years. It was the years where I never had to worry about real world issues. Sure I didn't like being told to go to be by my parents, but it wasn't a bad time.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:SpyroKevon04/29/16 at 5:51 pm

This shouldn't be a shocker. Toon already made great points. I would go back to the Early 2000s for the feel, sound and balanced technology.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 5:56 pm

Truth be told I'm actually happy with my adult years. College was fun and developing computer software (major that I wanted to have since I was a kid). In fact if there is one thing that I hated about being a kid it's that I had NO power. Everyone telling me what to do and I can't do anything about it. Gotta head to bed at 8. Couldn't play video games when I wanted. Could never take more than 5 cookies from the cookie jar. And being hit with a belt whenever I got in trouble felt like a gun shot (I don't know what a gun shot feels like, but I know it hurts). #KidStruggles

As an adult I do what I want. Hang out with friends when I want. Got a nice paying job. And my career literally involves me making computer entertainment. I don't think I'd want to be a kid again. Heck I'll even probably miss my time in the 2010s as I don't think I ever had any really bad moments in the 2010s. No recession, crime rate is low, love the new innovative tech, personal life is good, like the movies, love the cartoons. I don't have much of a reason to think that the 2010s are terrible. But not everyone will see it the same way like I do.

Now I also love my kid years. It was the years where I never had to worry about real world issues. Sure I didn't like being told to go to be by my parents, but it wasn't a bad time.

Yep, I have very little complaints about the 2010s as a decade myself. I've had a lot of wild rides 8) I'll always love the early 2000s as well, just looking at old photos or looking at my old video games gets me super nostalgic, it was a really fun time for me, but I can understand why someone older wouldn't like it.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:bchris02on04/29/16 at 5:56 pm

My kid culture ended around 2007. However, there were some kiddy stuff I grew out of before then. Even though I was still in my peak childhood throughout 2005 & 2006, for some reason by the time I was 9 & 10 I no longer played with hot wheels cars or built lego toys. I did more of that when I was around age 6-8. However, watching cartoons or kid sitcoms I did that throughout my whole peak childhood. Since my preteen years the only kid cultural stuff I may have liked are some good cartoons for kids that are very mature like Regular Show or Young Justice, or some good movies for kids that might have a few moments in there that adults could enjoy like Toy Story 3 thanks to growing up with Toy Story 1 & 2, Frozen which I thought was a little overrated but I could see why it's huge part of our pop culture now, or Big Hero 6 due to the (Marvel) comics.

Yeah my peak childhood was 1994-1997, but I enjoyed some things until about 1999 when I was 13. In my opinion, the target audience for Toy Story 3 were people who grew up with the first two films and not the children of 2010.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 6:00 pm

Slim threw shade at Boyhood yesterday so I decided to give it a rewatch, and I realized it was the movie that actually kickstarted my early 2000s nostalgia. The kid actor is born 1994 so he's pretty much the same age as me. I always saw myself in him, and a good chunk of the movie is about being a kid.

My core childhood was 1998/1999-2003, so yeah, pretty much spanning the entire cultural early 2000s. I'm not the most objective source on it ;D My parents were strict but their rules made sense to me. They didn't have to force me to do anything... My teachers were more evil.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:bchris02on04/29/16 at 6:03 pm

Truth be told I'm actually happy with my adult years. College was fun and developing computer software (major that I wanted to have since I was a kid). In fact if there is one thing that I hated about being a kid it's that I had NO power. Everyone telling me what to do and I can't do anything about it. Gotta head to bed at 8. Couldn't play video games when I wanted. Could never take more than 5 cookies from the cookie jar. And being hit with a belt whenever I got in trouble felt like a gun shot (I don't know what a gun shot feels like, but I know it hurts). #KidStruggles

I agree with this, and it sucked if you had parents that always hated your hobbies no matter what they were. Anything I enjoyed doing, I had to really control myself from doing it too much or letting my parents know I liked it too much or they would take it away. Don't miss that at all. There are certain things I miss about childhood. Things like Christmases and the hype and excitement on Christmas eve. I miss visiting my grandparents and cousins. I miss playing at the public pool. I miss riding my Murray bike through the woods. I miss playing N64 and MS-DOS PC games when they were actually cool. Aside from that, I don't miss it. I don't miss the strict rules. I don't miss the bedtimes. I don't miss parents who refused to support my hobbies and interests. I don't miss the bullying at school because I didn't fit in. I don't miss the fact that after I turned 13 I had virtually zero friends until college. There is a lot more to NOT miss about childhood than there is to reminisce about.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 6:40 pm

I agree with this, and it sucked if you had parents that always hated your hobbies no matter what they were. Anything I enjoyed doing, I had to really control myself from doing it too much or letting my parents know I liked it too much or they would take it away. Don't miss that at all. There are certain things I miss about childhood. Things like Christmases and the hype and excitement on Christmas eve. I miss visiting my grandparents and cousins. I miss playing at the public pool. I miss riding my Murray bike through the woods. I miss playing N64 and MS-DOS PC games when they were actually cool. Aside from that, I don't miss it. I don't miss the strict rules. I don't miss the bedtimes. I don't miss parents who refused to support my hobbies and interests. I don't miss the bullying at school because I didn't fit in. I don't miss the fact that after I turned 13 I had virtually zero friends until college. There is a lot more to NOT miss about childhood than there is to reminisce about.

Yep. Also I remember having to deal with bullies in my childhood. It sucked that I was a wimp. Heck one of the bullies ended up making me cry.......man 3rd grade sucked. My parents didn't hate my hobbies, but I really hated that I couldn't do anything without their say so. For example one Christmas I got the Gameboy. But even though it was a present for me I still had to ask my parents on when I could play it. One time I didn't ask and ended up getting in trouble for it. I hated having to take naps for 2 hours everyday since I was never tired. When I turned 11-13 I HATED the middle school I went to. A lot of students were jerks and my personal life was a bit rocky. And when I got my first girlfriend everything went into a very strange blur of events. I don't miss my kid-early teen years due to there being so much happening yet I'd never understand why. I didn't understand why my parents had certain rules placed. Never understood why middle schoolers were jerks. Never understood what I was thinking when I gotten into my first relationship. Wouldn't be until I turned 16 or 17 in highschool where things would've gotten better. I However, I did enjoy the moments where it was just me having fun. My kid years were fun, but had annoying moments. And my preteen to early teen years were just terrible. Only thing I miss from those years are my friends. There is a lot that I don't miss about my kid years and early teen years. Being a kid again is not something I'd want.

Flash forward to when I turned around 17 and things were better. Senior in highschool about to get into college. Meeting college students who weren't jerks. And being able to control more of my life.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 6:44 pm

This shouldn't be a shocker. Toon already made great points. I would go back to the Early 2000s for the feel, sound and balanced technology.

I'd go back for the feel, sound, and balance in technology, but I'd never go back to relive the same moments that I've had before (unless it involved me having fun). I like the sound of music and I liked how their was a nice balance in technology. No social media for people to get addicted to and we don't have kids using tablets/phones at age 6.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/29/16 at 7:24 pm

My peak childhood spanned from 2002-2006 when I was 6-10, so I had a couple of early 2000's years in there, but a little more spent throughout the mid 2000's though.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 8:19 pm

By the way, what makes you say homophobia was worse in the mid-2000s than the early 2000s? From what I've heard from older people, it was at its worse in the 80s and it just got slowly better from there.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon04/29/16 at 8:48 pm

By the way, what makes you say homophobia was worse in the mid-2000s than the early 2000s? From what I've heard from older people, it was at its worse in the 80s and it just got slowly better from there.

It was worse still in the 50s and 60s, when you could get arrested just for being gay. A lot of bands and musicians in the 80s directly resonated with the gay community, far more so than most popular music in the 90s and 2000s. Madonna, the Human League, Cyndi Lauper, Culture Club, Janet Jackson, and several other pop musicians were hugely supportive of the gay community and their music was a staple at gay clubs. Gay men were heavily scrutinized in the 80s due to the AIDS crisis, but if you knew who to turn to, you could still live a pretty solid life if you were queer, even compared to the 90s and 2000s.

Maybe I'm just being biased because I really, really wish the mid-2010s didn't have to be the only era so far in which the LGBT community is particularly integrated into society (at least the stereotypical members are), and I hate pointing to anything bad about the 80s and 90s compare to today, but since homophobia always exists in some form, I'm more interested in the inner-dynamics of minority communities, and that's an area where it's more debatable if today's community is preferable to the past. Personally, I'd far rather be a lesbian in the late 90s than the 1980s (which I wish was my childhood instead) because there was at least decent visibility to deeper LGBT topics and the AIDS epidemic was no longer at its worst. However, I also think I would be far more integrated in the lesbian community on the basis of my personal interests in the second half of the 90s than the Orange Is the New Black/SJW era of today.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on04/29/16 at 9:46 pm

Nowadays is a lot more conformist than back then. Everyone today has to be a hipster tumblrite with a smartphone addiction. The early 00's were the last time I cared about pop culture. 2000-2002 were just as rad as the 90's! The fashion was great, the music was sick, the technology was balanced and not in your face, it was a great time to be alive. Somewhere between 2003-2004 everything went downhill and we got stuck with wing haircuts, Crunk, faux-Emo and Post-Post Grunge. No thank you.

Also, the first Spider-Man is the best superhero movie ever made along with X-Men and Batman '89.

On the topic of parents, mine weren't strict. They supported my hobbies and interests as long as I didn't get addicted to smack or whatever. Like Trollpoke above said, my teachers were more "evil" than anything.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 10:00 pm

It was worse still in the 50s and 60s, when you could get arrested just for being gay. A lot of bands and musicians in the 80s directly resonated with the gay community, far more so than most popular music in the 90s and 2000s. Madonna, the Human League, Cyndi Lauper, Culture Club, Janet Jackson, and several other pop musicians were hugely supportive of the gay community and their music was a staple at gay clubs. Gay men were heavily scrutinized in the 80s due to the AIDS crisis, but if you knew who to turn to, you could still live a pretty solid life if you were queer, even compared to the 90s and 2000s.

Maybe I'm just being biased because I really, really wish the mid-2010s didn't have to be the only era so far in which the LGBT community is particularly integrated into society (at least the stereotypical members are), and I hate pointing to anything bad about the 80s and 90s compare to today, but since homophobia always exists in some form, I'm more interested in the inner-dynamics of minority communities, and that's an area where it's more debatable if today's community is preferable to the past. Personally, I'd far rather be a lesbian in the late 90s than the 1980s (which I wish was my childhood instead) because there was at least decent visibility to deeper LGBT topics and the AIDS epidemic was no longer at its worst. However, I also think I would be far more integrated in the lesbian community on the basis of my personal interests in the second half of the 90s than the Orange Is the New Black/SJW era of today.

Oh thats true. I don't think I've met anyone who was a gay adult in the 50s/first half of the 60s. I was more thinking along the lines of which era is it easy to be openly gay in and have your family accept it (less common in the 80s/90s for sure), although inner-community homophobia is a an interesting way to look at it.

I'm surprised you dislike Orange Is The New Black. I guess the movie is very SJW, but I found it to be a super interesting premise for a movie. It's also very diverse in its cast. I mean you have some stereotypical butch lesbians, but there were also some feminine ones like Lorna and Piper (although I guess they're both actually bisexual) and Brook.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon04/29/16 at 10:09 pm

I'm surprised you dislike Orange Is The New Black. I guess the movie is very SJW, but I found it to be a super interesting premise for a movie. It's also very diverse in its cast. I mean you have some stereotypical butch lesbians, but there were also some feminine ones like Lorna and Piper (although I guess they're both actually bisexual) and Brook.

I just find that none of the characters resonate with me, and the whole show has an unpleasant tone throughout it. I also dislike the idea of queer women being associated with prison rather than everyday society, which even The L Word was closer to, in spite of its cliquey portrayal of lesbianism. I feel that Orange Is the New Black speaks primarily to the struggles and world view of mainstream lesbians and far less to somebody like me, who totally embraces traditional femininity while simultaneously just happening to be attracted to proud dames instead of handsome knights. Even the type of lesbianism in Orange Is the New Black seems borderline phony to me, since in many cases it's just straight women or bisexual women romantically attached to men who hook up with other women simply because of the prison setting and not out of their nature.

In all fairness, the mid-2010s do have some lesbian-themed stories that I appreciate far more, especially Carol and The Fosters in particular, but Orange Is the New Black seems to be the overwhelming cultural phenomenon within today's lesbian community, and I feel it's nothing but a perfect reinforcement of something that mostly just pigeonholes stereotypes in spite of professing a message of diversity.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 10:20 pm

I just find that none of the characters resonate with me, and the whole show has an unpleasant tone throughout it. I also dislike the idea of queer women being associated with prison rather than everyday society, which even The L Word was closer to, in spite of its cliquey portrayal of lesbianism. I feel that Orange Is the New Black speaks primarily to the struggles and world view of mainstream lesbians and far less to somebody like me, who totally embraces traditional femininity while simultaneously just happening to be attracted to proud dames instead of handsome knights. Even the type of lesbianism in Orange Is the New Black seems borderline phony to me, since in many cases it's just straight women or bisexual women romantically attached to men who hook up with other women simply because of the prison setting and not out of their nature.

In all fairness, the mid-2010s do have some lesbian-themed stories that I appreciate far more, especially Carol and The Fosters in particular, but Orange Is the New Black seems to be the overwhelming cultural phenomenon within today's lesbian community, and I feel it's nothing but a perfect reinforcement of something that mostly just pigeonholes stereotypes in spite of professing a message of diversity.

That's true I hear you. Even Brook isn't a lesbian now that I think about it, even though they don't talk about her past sexuality much, but she keeps talking about "prison wives". I realize all the feminine women in the show are bisexual or only gay in prison. Though to be fair to the show, it is based on a true story, and it shines line on other social issues other than LGBT (although it's probably the biggest component).

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon04/29/16 at 10:41 pm

That's true I hear you. Even Brook isn't a lesbian now that I think about it, even though they don't talk about her past sexuality much, but she keeps talking about "prison wives". I realize all the feminine women in the show are bisexual or only gay in prison. Though to be fair to the show, it is based on a true story, and it shines line on other social issues other than LGBT (although it's probably the biggest component).

The reason I hate shows like Orange so much is because they practically try to erase women like me from existence. Everything about my presentation, from my love of dresses, to my long hair, to my effeminate inflection, to even my preferred qualities in love are constantly defined as pertaining to heterosexual women, that only men can be "dreamy," if not extremely masculine women. Me personally, I don't see strength as an exclusively masculine trait, I see a lot more strength in my high school crush than any man, even though she's short, girly, and verbal rather than just rough and aggressive. Not just straight people, but the lesbian community as well try to pretend these ideas do not exist, that I'm either disenchanted by the patriarchy if I'm a feminine lesbian or that I just haven't found the right man.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mach!ne_he@don04/29/16 at 10:43 pm

I can't really figure out why people have such fondness for the early '00s. My peak teen years were during the era so in theory I should miss them, but I don't. Here are a few reasons why.

1. Conformism. Early '00s culture was extremely conformist and you pretty much had to fall into the skater or prep category or be outcasted. Individualism was highly discouraged and if you had any hobbies or interests that were considered outside the norm, that was seen as a weakness and could have led to bullying.2. School shooting hysteria. Speaking of bullying, during the years following Columbine, school violence was always in the back of everyone's mind.3. 9/11. This one speaks for itself. 9/11 and the shift in politics in this country afterward was not a step forward for this country.4. Homophobia. The early '00s were an extremely homophobic time. While it wasn't quite as bad as it was in the mid '00s, if you had any quality that didn't line up with the alpha-male stereotype, you were labeled as gay. If you were gay in the early '00s there was a high chance you would be bullied and wouldn't have anyone defending you.5. Tech. Most people at the time were using slow Windows 98 or first-gen Windows XP computers on a dial-up connection. Yes, broadband was becoming more popular but a majority didn't have it until around 2004. It was a down-era for gaming as the N64 was phased out and the PC gaming era that began in late 2003 had not yet arrived. PS2 and the first Xbox were very underwhelming consoles. Furthermore, the years following the Dot-Com bust were a bad time to be in the tech industry.6. Recession. While the Great Recession in the late 2000s would be much worse, the early '00s marked the end of the Clinton economic boom.7. Movies. The movies of the early '00s for the most part were downright awful. Movies like "Legally Blonde", "The Sum of All Fears" with Ben Affleck and "Spider Man" with Toby McGuire are shining examples of the movies produced in the era.8. My personal life. It was just not good during the early '00s. I was bullied at school and had ultra-strict conservative parents that wouldn't allow me to be a normal teenager. Those years were like being in prison for me.

The one silver lining of the era was...of course..the music. The early '00s had some great music across all genres.

Thoughts?

I completely understand your reasoning for not liking the early '00s, but my own personal experience with that time period was radically different. By and large, I loved being an early '00s teen. I wasn't the most popular guy in high school, but I had my little core group of friends that I hung out with, and was largely able to avoid the bullying that can unfortunately be common at that age.

The early '00s were far from perfect. Much of the pop culture from that era has not aged well, and the post-9/11, hyper-patriotic, pro-war feel of 2001-03 is certainly regretful in hindsight. But, if I had the chance to go back to the summer of 2000 for just one day, and enjoy a typical afternoon hanging out at the house of my friend that I haven't seen in years, playing Nintendo 64, thumbing through the latest issue of EGM, while "My Own Worst Enemy" blares out of his stereo speakers, I'd take it in a second. ;)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 10:46 pm

I'd go back to the early 00's just to rage about how slow dial up.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on04/29/16 at 11:01 pm

I completely understand your reasoning for not liking the early '00s, but my own personal experience with that time period was radically different. By and large, I loved being an early '00s teen. I wasn't the most popular guy in high school, but I had my little core group of friends that I hung out with, and was largely able to avoid the bullying that can unfortunately be common at that age.

The early '00s were far from perfect. Much of the pop culture from that era has not aged well, and the post-9/11, hyper-patriotic, pro-war feel of 2001-03 is certainly regretful in hindsight. But, if I had the chance to go back to the summer of 2000 for just one day, and enjoy a typical afternoon hanging out at the house of my friend that I haven't seen in years, playing Nintendo 64, thumbing through the latest issue of EGM, while "My Own Worst Enemy" blares out of his stereo speakers, I'd take it in a second. ;)

Oh man, My Own Worst Enemy is a killer song! I'd love to go back and live through summer's 2000 through 2002. Every year of the early 00's was good. 8) So many good Summer album releases. June 2000-2002 were positive times, unlike June of 2004, which is probably one of the worst months in recent history.

I'd go back to the early 00's just to rage about how slow dial up.

The internet peaked with dial up. People can talk about how good broadband is but when browsing the Drive Thru records website to check out Home Grown's new video for You're Not Alone you weren't on broadband. ;)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/29/16 at 11:05 pm

The reason I hate shows like Orange so much is because they practically try to erase women like me from existence. Everything about my presentation, from my love of dresses, to my long hair, to my effeminate inflection, to even my preferred qualities in love are constantly defined as pertaining to heterosexual women, that only men can be "dreamy," if not extremely masculine women. Me personally, I don't see strength as an exclusively masculine trait, I see a lot more strength in my high school crush than any man, even though she's short, girly, and verbal rather than just rough and aggressive. Not just straight people, but the lesbian community as well try to pretend these ideas do not exist, that I'm either disenchanted by the patriarchy if I'm a feminine lesbian or that I just haven't found the right man.

That's true. I never really thought about it honestly. It was my first time watching a show that sheds light on so many social issues all at once, I was quick to praise the show for everything it had done, I didn't really think to analyze what it hadn't said. It's indeed strange to me how all the feminine women are all bisexual or just prison gay, while the story sheds a lot of background on the more stereotypical "butch" lesbians like Boo or Nicky (although I don't think think their experiences should be discounted completely, homophobia against even butch lesbians still exists). It would be nice to see even more diversity on the show, which is a criticism I didn't think I'd ever say.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on04/29/16 at 11:06 pm

Living in the early 00's was like a cool sip of Pepsi Blue... 8) I mean, c'mon, who doesn't love constant Rap Metal commercials invading your TV every 5 minutes telling you about the joys Pepsi? I'm not into "P-Roach" and their daddy issues but that one Sev song was totally rad.

sev0ss8XSm4

(I love how the intro to this video has yet ANOTHER Nu Metal song: Downfall by TRUSTCompany. Man, that and Same Old Song were everywhere in the early 00s!)

In the real 00's we could not have good things so they tried to sell us Pepsi Cyanide with commercials set to Fall Out Boy instead. ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/29/16 at 11:39 pm

Living in the early 00's was like a cool sip of Pepsi Blue... 8) I mean, c'mon, who doesn't love constant Rap Metal commercials invading your TV every 5 minutes telling you about the joys Pepsi? I'm not into "P-Roach" and their daddy issues but that one Sev song was totally rad.

sev0ss8XSm4

(I love how the intro to this video has yet ANOTHER Nu Metal song: Downfall by TRUSTCompany. Man, that and Same Old Song were everywhere in the early 00s!)

In the real 00's we could not have good things so they tried to sell us Pepsi Cyanide with commercials set to Fall Out Boy instead. ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Yep! It's all about "HEY KIDS!? WANNA BE COOL LIKE TONY HAWK" or "Yo, yo, yo I herd u wuz frontin' but ain't that sumthin'" Hopefully I can get those free AOL discs so I can chat with girls while I view cool music videos on Yahoo LAUNCH and Drive Thru Record's website.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:musicguy93on04/30/16 at 12:22 am

Yep! It's all about "HEY KIDS!? WANNA BE COOL LIKE TONY HAWK" or "Yo, yo, yo I herd u wuz frontin' but ain't that sumthin'" Hopefully I can get those free AOL discs so I can chat with girls while I view cool music videos on Yahoo LAUNCH and Drive Thru Record's website.

Speaking of Tony Hawk:

kSMXTGc4LDA

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/30/16 at 12:26 am

Yep! It's all about "HEY KIDS!? WANNA BE COOL LIKE TONY HAWK" or "Yo, yo, yo I herd u wuz frontin' but ain't that sumthin'" Hopefully I can get those free AOL discs so I can chat with girls while I view cool music videos on Yahoo LAUNCH and Drive Thru Record's website.

Speaking of Tony Hawk:

kSMXTGc4LDA

My reaction would've been "Holy sh*t! Tony Hawk just jumped out of my TV!!". Every skater (or anyone into extreme sports) wanted to be like Tony Hawk. That's a funny commercial. The Xtreme! sports trend is another thing that I miss from that period. Too bad I ended up hurting myself whenever I tried skateboarding. I remember thinking that I was too cool and extreme for elbow pads.................ended up scrapping the skin off my elbow on the hot cement road when I failed to do a trick off the ramp...:(

Being Xtreme! has its problems.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on04/30/16 at 12:38 am

Speaking of Tony Hawk:

kSMXTGc4LDA

The early 00's in a nutshell: Tony Hawk pops out of your TV and steals your Bagel Bites. 8) I remember back in 1995-2003 when I used to skate all the time by myself or with my buds. I used to go to the record store, pick up whatever new CD was out and skate around to it. If it had good hooks and I could skate to it, I'd keep it. If not, I'd return it. Nowadays, I don't think I could skate to any of the new stuff but I've started skating again to keep active. I still got it!

My reaction would've been "Holy sh*t! Tony Hawk just jumped out of my TV!!". Every skater (or anyone into extreme sports) wanted to be like Tony Hawk. That's a funny commercial. The Xtreme! sports trend is another thing that I miss from that period. Too bad I ended up hurting myself whenever I tried skateboarding. I remember thinking that I was too cool and extreme for elbow pads.................ended up scrapping the skin off my elbow on the hot cement road when I failed to do a trick off the ramp...:(

Being Xtreme! has its problems.

Yep, that's right! All those spiky haired dudes with the chain wallets all wanted to pull of sick 900's just like the man himself. I've hurt myself tons of times skateboarding. I can't tell you how many scrapped knees and pairs of dickies I've ripped skateboarding around town. I still got some of the scars, too! The best was when I'd go to skate parks and I wouldn't even have to bring my own stereo because someone else had brought one with the latest CD's. I remember skaters used to be into bands like NoFX, Lagwagon, Gob, Home Grown, blink-182, MxPx, Riddlin' Kids, Allister; good skateable bands are what we all liked. Sometimes they'd bring Nu Metal CD's but it wasn't that common as Nu Metal kids liked to sit around to the side and sh!t talk rather than skate. Better than today where people skate to indie pop in skinny jeans.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Howardon04/30/16 at 6:58 am

I'd go back to the early 00's just to rage about how slow dial up.

Dial Up was so slow. ::)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/30/16 at 7:16 am

Thread devolved into another early 2000s nostalgia thread. It's about hating the early 2000s! ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on04/30/16 at 11:24 am

Thread devolved into another early 2000s nostalgia thread. It's about hating the early 2000s! ;D

Yeah, but that sounds awful.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon04/30/16 at 12:51 pm

Thread devolved into another early 2000s nostalgia thread. It's about hating the early 2000s! ;D

Well...what had happen was Jordan came out of nowhere. And Musicguy93 came in and showed Tony Hawk jumping out of TVs and stealing pizza bagels and the rest was history.

http://i63.tinypic.com/k2cnsg.jpg

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/30/16 at 12:53 pm

Well...what had happen was Jordan came out of nowhere. And Musicguy93 came in and showed Tony Hawk jumping out of TVs and stealing pizza bagels and the rest was history.

http://i63.tinypic.com/k2cnsg.jpg

Saving that image. Relevant for a lot situations.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on04/30/16 at 12:54 pm

Well...what had happen was Jordan came out of nowhere. And Musicguy93 came in and showed Tony Hawk jumping out of TVs and stealing pizza bagels and the rest was history.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on04/30/16 at 2:43 pm

I agree with this, and it sucked if you had parents that always hated your hobbies no matter what they were. Anything I enjoyed doing, I had to really control myself from doing it too much or letting my parents know I liked it too much or they would take it away. Don't miss that at all. There are certain things I miss about childhood. Things like Christmases and the hype and excitement on Christmas eve. I miss visiting my grandparents and cousins. I miss playing at the public pool. I miss riding my Murray bike through the woods. I miss playing N64 and MS-DOS PC games when they were actually cool. Aside from that, I don't miss it. I don't miss the strict rules. I don't miss the bedtimes. I don't miss parents who refused to support my hobbies and interests. I don't miss the bullying at school because I didn't fit in. I don't miss the fact that after I turned 13 I had virtually zero friends until college. There is a lot more to NOT miss about childhood than there is to reminisce about.

That's the EXACT same way I felt about my personal life the early 10s.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on04/30/16 at 2:45 pm

Yeah my peak childhood was 1994-1997, but I enjoyed some things until about 1999 when I was 13. In my opinion, the target audience for Toy Story 3 were people who grew up with the first two films and not the children of 2010.

I'm curious why you chose the mid 90s over the early 90s. Cause me as a 95er, my peak was late 2000-2005; mainly early 00s with a little mid.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/30/16 at 3:00 pm

I'm curious why you chose the mid 90s over the early 90s. Cause me as a 95er, my peak was late 2000-2005; mainly early 00s with a little mid.

Katana Queen said something very similar a few months ago when she told us that her peak childhood was from age 8-11 and I remember her saying she couldn't remember being 6 & 7 that well. She was born in 1985 (same year as bchris as well), both of them graduated in 2004 (10 years before us), and they don't consider the early 90's important to their childhood as the mid 90's, despite being born in the mid 80's. This is another big reason why I think age 8 is the most important age that determines peak childhood for most people on average, because not everybody agrees that 7 or under is apart of their peak, while some people don't agree 9 or up is apart of their peak as well. I haven't seen one person yet who thinks age 8 isn't important to their childhood.

As a 1996 born the only early 2000's years that were part of my peak were 2002 & 2003 when I was 6 & 7, but 2004-2006 when I was 8-10 were mid 2000's which were also in my peak without a question. So my peak childhood was both early & mid 2000's but leaning slightly towards mid. I don't consider 2000 & 2001 as part of my peak (those still feel like early to me) while 2007-2009 the whole late 2000's were my late childhood/preteen years.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/30/16 at 3:05 pm

It's an interesting topic and it's fun to see a wide range of opinions on that. I moved out of my childhood neighbourhood in the summer of 2004 and I consider that the death kneel of my childhood, but I have a feeling if I stayed put then I could see me reframing my core childhood to 2002-2005, simply because those were by far the most influential years of my childhood. 2003-2004 school year was one of my favourites, but I absolutely hated 2004-05. It's a shame I had to move out.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/30/16 at 3:19 pm

It's an interesting topic and it's fun to see a wide range of opinions on that. I moved out of my childhood neighbourhood in the summer of 2004 and I consider that the death kneel of my childhood, but I have a feeling if I stayed put then I could see me reframing my core childhood to 2002-2005, simply because those were by far the most influential years of my childhood. 2003-2004 school year was one of my favourites, but I absolutely hated 2004-05. It's a shame I had to move out.

True, but personally I don't think preteen years are influential to childhood at all unless you have a different definition of childhood like extending it to 17, but if you're going by the regular childhood or kid rule from age 3-12, then your entire elementary school years are the most influential moments of your childhood when your interest into the kid culture is at its peak. I don't know about you, but my middle school and preteen years were awful. I remember being in 6th grade missing elementary school so badly because of going through peer pressure and learning so many new things about the real world. I was also into mainstream music, news, celebrities, and politics by the time I was 11 as well. Personally I think age 6-10 or 7-9 is the peak in interest in the kid culture. In other words, here in the U.S. that's 2nd & 3rd grade. At age 7-9, you're no longer in Kindergarten or under, but at the same time not in middle school or having to worry about too much homework yet. (by 4th & 5th grade you start having to worry about homework since they prepare you for middle school) At age 7-9 I did not care about politics, world news, mainstream music (unless my family played it), and I was real innocent. Life was real simple back then. When I was 2nd & 3rd grade nobody cared about having boyfriends or girlfriends yet lol. It was about the "cool kid club" and "weird kid group", and avoiding people with "cuties". People just talked about toys, kid shows, or Nintendo games that's all. It felt like the center of childhood for sure.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Zelek2on04/30/16 at 3:31 pm

I know not everyone's the same with memories, but I noticed a bit of disparity between older and younger people on the Internet.

Whenever someone born in...let's say 1982, posts nostalgia on a site like Reddit or Facebook, they will almost always say they're "a 90s kid, not an 80s kid", and that they "don't remember the 80s very well at all".

But then, when someone born in 1995 talks about nostalgia, they will ALWAYS say they are an "early 2000s kid", never a mid-late 00s kid, and put the most stock into their childhood BEFORE age 8, rather than after. :P

I'm guessing this is because people believe the kid culture of the 00s experienced a massive decline in quality around ~2004-2008, and younger people want to desperately "squeeze" themselves into the "last good years", resisting any association with the post-2006 era. :P

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon04/30/16 at 3:37 pm

True, but personally I don't think preteen years are influential to childhood at all unless you have a different definition of childhood like extending it to 17, but if you're going by the regular childhood or kid rule from age 3-12, then your entire elementary school years are the most influential moments of your childhood when your interest into the kid culture is at its peak.

Then why is 6-10 everyone's peak childhood? If you're basically saying that your entire elementary school years are like that, then how come you're ignoring age 5. I mean isn't that when everybody goes to primary school, especially in the US? Granted, as somebody who's been to Kindergarten early (because I would turn 5 in late 2004, according to NYC's school system), I wouldn't say that age 4 is part of your peak childhood. But could anybody at least argue that being five years old kinda counts as your peak childhood? I know that you'll disagree with this (or not), but I think 2005 counts as one of my peak childhood years. Especially when it was my first year watching Cartoon Network. While 2004 was when I started to become more interested into kid culture, it was 2005 that built up more memories for me.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/30/16 at 3:37 pm

True, but personally I don't think preteen years are influential to childhood at all unless you have a different definition of childhood like extending it to 17, but if you're going by the regular childhood or kid rule from age 3-12, then your entire elementary school years are the most influential moments of your childhood when your interest into the kid culture is at its peak. I don't know about you, but my middle school and preteen years were awful. I remember being in 6th grade missing elementary school so badly because of going through peer pressure and learning so many new things about the real world. I was also into mainstream music, news, celebrities, and politics by the time I was 11 as well. Personally I think age 6-10 or 7-9 is the peak in interest in the kid culture. In other words, here in the U.S. that's 2nd & 3rd grade. At age 7-9, you're no longer in Kindergarten or under, but at the same time not in middle school or having to worry about too much homework yet. (by 4th & 5th grade you start having to worry about homework since they prepare you for middle school) At age 7-9 I did not care about politics, world news, mainstream music (unless my family played it), and I was real innocent. Life was real simple back then. When I was 2nd & 3rd grade nobody cared about having boyfriends or girlfriends yet lol. It was about the "cool kid club" and "weird kid group", and avoiding people with "cuties". People just talked about toys, kid shows, or Nintendo games that's all. It felt like the center of childhood for sure.

But that's exactly why it felt so real to me. Whenever I think about ages 5-8 I get way too much of an "innocent" vibe from them. I wasn't aware of the world at all, it's just hard put myself in that frame of mind again. Those ages 9-12 have a much clearer feeling to me, being hyperaware of the world at that point. It's also the age most people start getting into music, don't need parent supervision when you go outside, find their niche, figure out who their true friends are (I remember things getting a lot more cliquish in Grade 6) and many other things.

I'm in the same boat as you, middle school was a b*tch, which is why I find it hard to consider it a part of my core childhood. But I can understand why someone would disregard ages 5-8 and have a preference for the latter childhood years. For me, it's Grade 5 and Grade 6 (2002-03 and 2003-04) that make me want to lean toward my latter childhood years; Grade 6 especially was a lot of fun. It's a shame Grades 7/8 turned out to be such turds. I had tons of fun Grades 1-3, but I'm not sure how influential they are to me as a person. If I got amnesia and forgot all my social relationships before 2002, I probably wouldn't be all that different as a person (you can't make me forget Nintendo and Pokémon though, that would ruin me ;D)

BTW, as the years become more distant, I definitely do consider my early teen years (up to Mid-2009) as a part of my "childhood", but don't worry I'm not gonna throw that definition into here out of the blue LOL

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon04/30/16 at 3:39 pm

I know not everyone's the same with memories, but I noticed a bit of disparity between older and younger people on the Internet.

Whenever someone born in...let's say 1982, posts nostalgia on a site like Reddit or Facebook, they will almost always say they're "a 90s kid, not an 80s kid", and that they "don't remember the 80s very well at all".

But then, when someone born in 1995 talks about nostalgia, they will ALWAYS say they are an "early 2000s kid", never a mid-late 00s kid, and put the most stock into their childhood BEFORE age 8, rather than after. :P

I'm guessing this is because people believe the kid culture of the 00s experienced a massive decline in quality around ~2004-2008, and younger people want to desperately "squeeze" themselves into the "last good years", resisting any association with the post-2006 era. :P

They're brainwashed by late 90s kids, who thought the early 2000s was better than the mid-late 2000s. End of debate.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/30/16 at 3:46 pm

I know not everyone's the same with memories, but I noticed a bit of disparity between older and younger people on the Internet.

Whenever someone born in...let's say 1982, posts nostalgia on a site like Reddit or Facebook, they will almost always say they're "a 90s kid, not an 80s kid", and that they "don't remember the 80s very well at all".

But then, when someone born in 1995 talks about nostalgia, they will ALWAYS say they are an "early 2000s kid", never a mid-late 00s kid, and put the most stock into their childhood BEFORE age 8, rather than after. :P

I'm guessing this is because people believe the kid culture of the 00s experienced a massive decline in quality around ~2004-2008, and younger people want to desperately "squeeze" themselves into the "last good years", resisting any association with the post-2006 era. :P

Jordan says he's an 80s kid ;D but he says that because he says 1990-1992 are the 80s lol.

Why you always trashin' 95ers by the way. First you oust them as Gen Z and now questioning their early 2000s kid cred. I see you. :P

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on04/30/16 at 3:56 pm

Then why is 6-10 everyone's peak childhood?

I agree 5 is apart of peak as well.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/30/16 at 3:58 pm

But that's exactly why it felt so real to me. Whenever I think about ages 5-8 I get way too much of an "innocent" vibe from them. I wasn't aware of the world at all, it's just hard put myself in that frame of mind again. Those ages 9-12 have a much clearer feeling to me, being hyperaware of the world at that point. It's also the age most people start getting into music, don't need parent supervision when you go outside, find their niche, figure out who their true friends are (I remember things getting a lot more cliquish in Grade 6) and many other things.

I'm in the same boat as you, middle school was a b*tch, which is why I find it hard to consider it a part of my core childhood. But I can understand why someone would disregard ages 5-8 and have a preference for the latter childhood years. For me, it's Grade 5 and Grade 6 (2002-03 and 2003-04) that make me want to lean toward my latter childhood years; Grade 6 especially was a lot of fun. It's a shame Grades 7/8 turned out to be such turds. I had tons of fun Grades 1-3, but I'm not sure how influential they are to me as a person. If I got amnesia and forgot all my social relationships before 2002, I probably wouldn't be all that different as a person (you can't make me forget Nintendo and Pokémon though, that would ruin me ;D)

BTW, as the years become more distant, I definitely do consider my early teen years (up to Mid-2009) as a part of my "childhood", but don't worry I'm not gonna throw that definition into here out of the blue LOL

In reality from my experiences growing up with myself, my sister who's 2 years younger than me, and my cousins. I don't see much of a difference between someone who is 6, 7, 8, & 9 years old. I always thought of all of them being into the same type of things and having the same type of interests. 10 is debatable, but even then I still think age 10 is the last time you're really into kiddy stuff before you turn 11 and enter the real world in middle school and get into the mainstream pop culture. I've heard of many people on here talking about how they've been into music, news, or even politics since they were 8 or 9 years old too :o no joke, but when I was 8 & 9 I was still doing the same kiddy stuff as when I was 6 & 7.

Unlike what Zelek or other people believe on here, I don't see any attitude change that happens once you turn 8 or 9. I guess everybody is different. Also, while some might disagree, for me I still thought age 5, while it's no longer a toddler, is still in the preschool stage along with 3 & 4 year old's. Age 5 is a transitional age, it doesn't happen the day you turn 5. Age 5 is usually the last time you're still learning basics like days of the week, basic words, months on the calendar, basic addition, how to write your name, etc. since you're transitioning over from pre-K to Kindergarten. By the time you turn 6 you no longer do preschool/babyish things, you start watching big kid cartoons & sitcoms, playing E rated video games that require more skill, and playing/building more violent type toys. Although, I even hear people claim that they were already doing big kid type stuff before they turned 6. I think there's a huge attitude change between a 5 and a 6 year old. I don't understand why people think there's an attitude change between a 7 & 8 year old or an 8 & 9 year old. I felt no different when I was 6-9. I felt a little difference when I turned 10, a HUGE one when I turned 11 and went to middle school.

So I'm going to have to disagree with ages 5-8 being separated from ages 9-12. To me a 5 year old is transitional, it's exiting the age 2-4 stage but not exactly like 6-8 yet. It just doesn't belong with the age 6-8 group, while the age 9 & 10 doesn't belong with 11 & 12.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on04/30/16 at 4:05 pm

I know not everyone's the same with memories, but I noticed a bit of disparity between older and younger people on the Internet.

Whenever someone born in...let's say 1982, posts nostalgia on a site like Reddit or Facebook, they will almost always say they're "a 90s kid, not an 80s kid", and that they "don't remember the 80s very well at all".

But then, when someone born in 1995 talks about nostalgia, they will ALWAYS say they are an "early 2000s kid", never a mid-late 00s kid, and put the most stock into their childhood BEFORE age 8, rather than after. :P

I'm guessing this is because people believe the kid culture of the 00s experienced a massive decline in quality around ~2004-2008, and younger people want to desperately "squeeze" themselves into the "last good years", resisting any association with the post-2006 era. :P

Or maybe my memory is just pretty damn good, just like my dad's memory is pretty good. and I do focus on 9(2004/05ish and sometimes 10(2005-early 06ish), but after that not really....

Also another reason is because the kid culture was going through a MASSIVE CHANGES in the mid 2000s, and by late 2006 my kid culture was kinda over. Gen Z kid culture was in full swing by that point....

Regarding some 80s babies and the 90s.... that can kinda be explained. Mid 80s babies in particular are an interesting case, because they focus on the 8 1/2-11 years for some reason.

I think it was also due to the fact that the kid culture during the very early 90s was pretty similar to the late 80s, 90s kid culture truly hadn't begun yet until 92/93ish... But hey everybody's different! ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:musicguy93on04/30/16 at 4:15 pm

Or maybe my memory is just pretty damn good, just like my dad's memory is pretty good. and I do focus on 9(2004/05ish and sometimes 10(2005-early 06ish), but after that not really....

Also another reason is because the kid culture was going through a MASSIVE CHANGES in the mid 2000s, and by late 2006 my kid culture was kinda over. Gen Z kid culture was in full swing by that point....

Regarding some 80s babies and the 90s.... that can kinda be explained. Mid 80s babies in particular are an interesting case, because they focus on the 8 1/2-11 years for some reason.

I think it was also due to the fact that the kid culture during the very early 90s was pretty similar to the late 80s, 90s kid culture truly hadn't begun yet until 92/93ish... But hey everybody's different! ;D

Yeah, it really is a matter of perspective. I guess some people born in the early 80s would consider themselves 90s kids, just for the sake of simplicity, instead of calling themselves late 80s/early 90s kids. I know my mother, who was born in 1962, considers herself a 70s kid even though her core childhood was in the late 60s/early 70s. I guess it just rolls off the tongue easier, for some people.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/30/16 at 4:16 pm

In reality from my experiences growing up with myself, my sister who's 2 years younger than me, and my cousins. I don't see much of a difference between someone who is 6, 7, 8, & 9 years old. I always thought of all of them being into the same type of things and having the same type of interests. 10 is debatable, but even then I still think age 10 is the last time you're really into kiddy stuff before you turn 11 and enter the real world in middle school and get into the mainstream pop culture. I've heard of many people on here talking about how they've been into music, news, or even politics since they were 8 or 9 years old too :o no joke, but when I was 8 & 9 I was still doing the same kiddy stuff as when I was 6 & 7.

Unlike what Zelek or other people believe on here, I don't see any attitude change that happens once you turn 8 or 9. I guess everybody is different. Also, while some might disagree, for me I still thought age 5, while it's no longer a toddler, is still in the preschool stage along with 3 & 4 year old's. Age 5 is a transitional age, it doesn't happen the day you turn 5. Age 5 is usually the last time you're still learning basics like days of the week, basic words, months on the calendar, basic addition, how to write your name, etc. since you're transitioning over from pre-K to Kindergarten. By the time you turn 6 you no longer do preschool/babyish things, you start watching big kid cartoons & sitcoms, playing E rated video games that require more skill, and playing/building more violent type toys. Although, I even hear people claim that they were already doing big kid type stuff before they turned 6. I think there's a huge attitude change between a 5 and a 6 year old. I don't understand why people think there's an attitude change between a 7 & 8 year old or an 8 & 9 year old. I felt no different when I was 6-9. I felt a little difference when I turned 10, a HUGE one when I turned 11 and went to middle school.

So I'm going to have to disagree with ages 5-8 being separated from ages 9-12. To me a 5 year old is transitional, it's exiting the age 2-4 stage but not exactly like 6-8 yet. It just doesn't belong with the age 6-8 group, while the age 9 & 10 doesn't belong with 11 & 12.

I can see the values of both definitions is what I'm saying. If we're talking about your prime days watching kid shows and playing video games? Definitely 6-10 or 5-11. I bought my N64 in September 1998 and that's what I consider the start of my core childhood, me moving out of my childhood neighbourhood in June 2004 is what I consider the curtain call.

But I think the definition a lot of other people are using is the years they made the most friends, discovered their hobbies, became more aware of the world around them, and started going out without needing your parents to help you cross the streets (huge for me). To me this lines up with 9-12 much better. Those are the years that are by far more formative and influential to most people out of all the childhood years.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on04/30/16 at 4:19 pm

In reality from my experiences growing up with myself, my sister who's 2 years younger than me, and my cousins. I don't see much of a difference between someone who is 6, 7, 8, & 9 years old. I always thought of all of them being into the same type of things and having the same type of interests. 10 is debatable, but even then I still think age 10 is the last time you're really into kiddy stuff before you turn 11 and enter the real world in middle school and get into the mainstream pop culture. I've heard of many people on here talking about how they've been into music, news, or even politics since they were 8 or 9 years old too :o no joke, but when I was 8 & 9 I was still doing the same kiddy stuff as when I was 6 & 7.

Unlike what Zelek or other people believe on here, I don't see any attitude change that happens once you turn 8 or 9. I guess everybody is different. Also, while some might disagree, for me I still thought age 5, while it's no longer a toddler, is still in the preschool stage along with 3 & 4 year old's. Age 5 is a transitional age, it doesn't happen the day you turn 5. Age 5 is usually the last time you're still learning basics like days of the week, basic words, months on the calendar, basic addition, how to write your name, etc. since you're transitioning over from pre-K to Kindergarten. By the time you turn 6 you no longer do preschool/babyish things, you start watching big kid cartoons & sitcoms, playing E rated video games that require more skill, and playing/building more violent type toys. Although, I even hear people claim that they were already doing big kid type stuff before they turned 6. I think there's a huge attitude change between a 5 and a 6 year old. I don't understand why people think there's an attitude change between a 7 & 8 year old or an 8 & 9 year old. I felt no different when I was 6-9. I felt a little difference when I turned 10, a HUGE one when I turned 11 and went to middle school.

So I'm going to have to disagree with ages 5-8 being separated from ages 9-12. To me a 5 year old is transitional, it's exiting the age 2-4 stage but not exactly like 6-8 yet. It just doesn't belong with the age 6-8 group, while the age 9 & 10 doesn't belong with 11 & 12.

Well to be fair Marquis, not everyone has that ''traditional'' type of childhood like you did. It's obvious you and me come from kinda different worlds; and have different views despite be around the same age. ;) People go through things differently in their lives that will factor how they develop emotionally.

I obvious i'm going to differ GREATLY from what you just said. I felt the SAME from 5 and 6, I saw no difference in my life late 2000 and late 2001.I think 4 is kinda transitional, cause my parents no longer viewed me as a toddler... Also BEFORE 2001 I was ALREADY watching ''big kid'' shows and ''movies'' animated and live action ;) I felt EXACTLY the same at 10 and 11 as well, in 4th and 5th grade I was seen as a big kid BOTH ages!!! 9 was weird transitional time cause I was growing awkwardly and was gong from 3rd to 4th.... So yeah going from 9 to 10 was big and going from 14 to 15 was big for me as well. I would group in 5 with MY 6-9 years, and have 10-11 separate. That's the way I felt growing up.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:musicguy93on04/30/16 at 4:28 pm

Well to be fair Marquis, not everyone has that ''traditional'' type of childhood like you did. It's obvious you and me come from kinda different worlds; and have different views despite be around the same age. ;) People go through things differently in their lives that will factor how they develop emotionally.

I obvious i'm going to differ GREATLY from what you just said. I felt the SAME from 5 and 6, I saw no difference in my life late 2000 and late 2001.I think 4 is kinda transitional, cause my parents no longer viewed me as a toddler... Also BEFORE 2001 I was ALREADY watching ''big kid'' shows and ''movies'' animated and live action ;) I felt EXACTLY the same at 10 and 11 as well, in 4th and 5th grade I was seen as a big kid BOTH ages!!! 9 was weird transitional time cause I was growing awkwardly and was gong from 3rd to 4th.... So yeah going from 9 to 10 was big and going from 14 to 15 was big for me as well. I would group in 5 with MY 6-9 years, and have 10-11 separate. That's the way I felt growing up.

I think it's the same for me too.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/30/16 at 4:33 pm

I can see the values of both definitions is what I'm saying. If we're talking about your prime days watching kid shows and playing video games? Definitely 6-10 or 5-11. I bought my N64 in September 1998 and that's what I consider the start of my core childhood, me moving out of my childhood neighbourhood in June 2004 is what I consider the curtain call.

But I think the definition a lot of other people are using is the years they made the most friends, discovered their hobbies, became more aware of the world around them, and started going out without needing your parents to help you cross the streets (huge for me). To me this lines up with 9-12 much better. Those are the years that are by far more formative and influential to most people out of all the childhood years.

This is all I needed to know. This explains it much better. There's A LOT more to life as a kid than just playing with toys or watching cartoons. Hobbies like sports, being aware of the world around them, or not needing parents help ride bikes on their own in neighborhoods. This makes much more since now. It really clears things up. Although, for me, that wouldn't be until I was 10 or 11 years old, but 9 is a great starting point for that situation.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon04/30/16 at 4:41 pm

Well to be fair Marquis, not everyone has that ''traditional'' type of childhood like you did. It's obvious you and me come from kinda different worlds; and have different views despite be around the same age. ;) People go through things differently in their lives that will factor how they develop emotionally.

I obvious i'm going to differ GREATLY from what you just said. I felt the SAME from 5 and 6, I saw no difference in my life late 2000 and late 2001.I think 4 is kinda transitional, cause my parents no longer viewed me as a toddler... Also BEFORE 2001 I was ALREADY watching ''big kid'' shows and ''movies'' animated and live action ;) I felt EXACTLY the same at 10 and 11 as well, in 4th and 5th grade I was seen as a big kid BOTH ages!!! 9 was weird transitional time cause I was growing awkwardly and was gong from 3rd to 4th.... So yeah going from 9 to 10 was big and going from 14 to 15 was big for me as well. I would group in 5 with MY 6-9 years, and have 10-11 separate. That's the way I felt growing up.

http://i.imgur.com/lj8AV9j.gif

I felt the same thing with you, even though I'm a late 1999 baby. I also felt the same from 5 and 6, since I thought late 2004 and late 2005 was barely different from each other. I even remember watching "big kid" shows before 2005, which was the start of my peak childhood in my beliefs. Hell, I would also group 5 with my 6-9 years, since I felt like they've all been similar. Being 10-11 was kinda different for me, since that was when there was less 2000s influences at the time.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/30/16 at 4:42 pm

Or maybe my memory is just pretty damn good, just like my dad's memory is pretty good. and I do focus on 9(2004/05ish and sometimes 10(2005-early 06ish), but after that not really....

Also another reason is because the kid culture was going through a MASSIVE CHANGES in the mid 2000s, and by late 2006 my kid culture was kinda over. Gen Z kid culture was in full swing by that point....

Regarding some 80s babies and the 90s.... that can kinda be explained. Mid 80s babies in particular are an interesting case, because they focus on the 8 1/2-11 years for some reason.

I think it was also due to the fact that the kid culture during the very early 90s was pretty similar to the late 80s, 90s kid culture truly hadn't begun yet until 92/93ish... But hey everybody's different! ;D

Yeah, it seemed like the kid culture from 1991/92 - 1996 throughout the 90's stayed pretty similar. I'm not an expert on the period of time since I didn't grow up in the 90's obviously, but this makes a lot of mid 80's babies not ashamed to claim age 9-11 as important childhood years to them, since it probably felt similar to when they were age 6-8, whether they remember it or not. Same goes for late 90's/early 2000's kids too. People born in the very late 80's or very early 90's, like SpyKev, may have still been into a lot of kid cultural stuff when they were 9 & 10 because the early 2000's kid culture still felt almost the same as the late 90's kid culture. For us core 2000's kids, or early & mid 2000's children the kid culture went through too many changes throughout the mid to late 2000's (which I remember myself as well as you and many others). Which causes us to squeeze in our earlier years whether than later years. This is why a lot of things from the mid 2000's didn't have a cultural identity compared to the 90's or early 2000's. When it comes to my peak I'm always gonna focus on everything 2002-2006 offered and that's fair enough!

BTW, since you thought age 5 didn't feel any different than 6 for you, was there any difference you felt when you turned 7, or did 5 felt the same as the rest of your peak childhood?

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on04/30/16 at 5:00 pm

Yeah, it seemed like the kid culture from 1991/92 - 1996 throughout the 90's stayed pretty similar. I'm not an expert on the period of time since I didn't grow up in the 90's obviously, but this makes a lot of mid 80's babies not ashamed to claim age 9-11 as important childhood years to them, since it probably felt similar to when they were age 6-8, whether they remember it or not. Same goes for late 90's/early 2000's kids too. People born in the very late 80's or very early 90's, like SpyKev, may have still been into a lot of kid cultural stuff when they were 9 & 10 because the early 2000's kid culture still felt almost the same as the late 90's kid culture. For us core 2000's kids, or early & mid 2000's children the kid culture went through too many changes throughout the mid to late 2000's (which I remember myself as well as you and many others). Which causes us to squeeze in our earlier years whether than later years. This is why a lot of things from the mid 2000's didn't have a cultural identity compared to the 90's or early 2000's. When it comes to my peak I'm always gonna focus on everything 2002-2006 offered and that's fair enough!

BTW, since you thought age 5 didn't feel any different than 6 for you, was there any difference you felt when you turned 7, or did 5 felt the same as the rest of your peak childhood?

5 actually felt the same as 6 and 7, but different from 8 and 9. But they were all still peak for the most part.

7 felt the same as 6.. but it was a little different from 8 did which is why I call Late 2003-2005 Peak childhood part 2. But that's only because I moved from downtown St. Louis to Florissant. ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on04/30/16 at 5:05 pm

Yeah, it seemed like the kid culture from 1991/92 - 1996 throughout the 90's stayed pretty similar. I'm not an expert on the period of time since I didn't grow up in the 90's obviously, but this makes a lot of mid 80's babies not ashamed to claim age 9-11 as important childhood years to them, since it probably felt similar to when they were age 6-8, whether they remember it or not. Same goes for late 90's/early 2000's kids too. People born in the very late 80's or very early 90's, like SpyKev, may have still been into a lot of kid cultural stuff when they were 9 & 10 because the early 2000's kid culture still felt almost the same as the late 90's kid culture. For us core 2000's kids, or early & mid 2000's children the kid culture went through too many changes throughout the mid to late 2000's (which I remember myself as well as you and many others). Which causes us to squeeze in our earlier years whether than later years. This is why a lot of things from the mid 2000's didn't have a cultural identity compared to the 90's or early 2000's. When it comes to my peak I'm always gonna focus on everything 2002-2006 offered and that's fair enough!

It's fun to watch those golden age Nick and classic Fox kids commercials from 1992-1996 on youtube. :o

But back on topic, 2000-2003 kid culture was basically the same damn thing! :) We can agree on that. Now... here are where things get SUPER SUPER awkward... 2004-05 season kid culture was kind of a different world than 2005-06 season's kid culture. 04-05 still kinda had that early 00s kinda feel, then the 05-06 was when early Gen Z kid culture was being ushered in.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on04/30/16 at 5:11 pm

http://i.imgur.com/lj8AV9j.gif

I felt the same thing with you, even though I'm a late 1999 baby. I also felt the same from 5 and 6, since I thought late 2004 and late 2005 was barely different from each other. I even remember watching "big kid" shows before 2005, which was the start of my peak childhood in my beliefs. Hell, I would also group 5 with my 6-9 years, since I felt like they've all been similar. Being 10-11 was kinda different for me, since that was when there was less 2000s influences at the time.

Yup. I also was ALREADY familiar with mainstream pop culutre, celebrities, and musicians before the late 2000s. I may have been a kid, but I was kind of interested in those things during the earlier years of the 2000s.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/30/16 at 5:15 pm

This is all I needed to know. This explains it much better. There's A LOT more to life as a kid than just playing with toys or watching cartoons. Hobbies like sports, being aware of the world around them, or not needing parents help ride bikes on their own in neighborhoods. This makes much more since now. It really clears things up. Although, for me, that wouldn't be until I was 10 or 11 years old, but 9 is a great starting point for that situation.

Glad we could see eye to eye! :D

2003 was a big year for me. I learnt how to swim and learnt how to ice skate. Me and my friends would knock door to door and offer to shovel people's driveways for a dollar each. Then we'd cross the streets ourselves and rent a movie, a game and buy a lot of Skittles. Afterwards we'd go to a friend's house and go on Funnyjunk and watch hillarious Iraq War videos, maybe play DBZ on Cartoonnetwork.com or jam out to some Good Charlotte. It's also the first year I started picking out my own clothes, I started going alone into the forest to ride my bike, started buying my own music, started paying for my own ice cream when the ice cream truck comes etc.

It's the first year that had my "personality" in it, if you will. Its the first year that wasn't defined by what's on TV or what's on the video game shelf. That's how I feel about 1998-2001, those years sort of just "happened", while 2003 was my own thing. (2002 is in the middle). Early 2004 had the same vibe to me. It's a shame I moved out. Like I said, if I hadn't, I would definitely consider 2002-2006 (up until I get into high school) my real core childhood years, instead of 1998-2004.

Like you said too, middle school was complete ass, that's why you consider your peak childhood 2002-2006 and not 2005-2008 or whatever. It's hard to associate the darker parts of your life with your happier innocent years.

I honestly didn't have a year with "my personality" in it until 2007 when I got into high school. Late 2004 - 2006 was just watching TV and playing MMOs, nothing special, no friends, blegh.

*gets off soapbox*

Thank you for your time ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:80sfanon04/30/16 at 5:26 pm

Looking back, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was during the time.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mxcrashxmon04/30/16 at 6:06 pm

I obvious i'm going to differ GREATLY from what you just said. I felt the SAME from 5 and 6, I saw no difference in my life late 2000 and late 2001.I think 4 is kinda transitional, cause my parents no longer viewed me as a toddler... Also BEFORE 2001 I was ALREADY watching ''big kid'' shows and ''movies'' animated and live action ;) I felt EXACTLY the same at 10 and 11 as well, in 4th and 5th grade I was seen as a big kid BOTH ages!!! 9 was weird transitional time cause I was growing awkwardly and was gong from 3rd to 4th.... So yeah going from 9 to 10 was big and going from 14 to 15 was big for me as well. I would group in 5 with MY 6-9 years, and have 10-11 separate. That's the way I felt growing up.

I think it's the same for me too.

I felt the same thing with you, even though I'm a late 1999 baby. I also felt the same from 5 and 6, since I thought late 2004 and late 2005 was barely different from each other. I even remember watching "big kid" shows before 2005, which was the start of my peak childhood in my beliefs. Hell, I would also group 5 with my 6-9 years, since I felt like they've all been similar. Being 10-11 was kinda different for me, since that was when there was less 2000s influences at the time.

Me four! I didn't feel any difference either between 5 and 6. Honestly, I see my childhood from ages 3 to 8 because that's when I was mainly participating in kid fads as well as mainstream music, fashion, movies and games. By 9, I was in the 4th grade and I saw the world around me (although it could have been earlier) and began watching mature shows ;D and puberty. That's why I didn't watch any other kid blocks anymore (except Nick & CN) as I was close to the double digits. Even at that same age, I couldn't believe I was almost 10 and that's when it hit me seeing that my childhood was almost over and considering that I was getting too big for the playgrounds.

Despite being a kid in the early 00s, it's why I see the decade in a general perspective as I remember everything from that era.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mxcrashxmon04/30/16 at 6:12 pm

I don't know about you, but my middle school and preteen years were awful. I remember being in 6th grade missing elementary school so badly because of going through peer pressure and learning so many new things about the real world.

I'm in the same boat as you, middle school was a b*tch, which is why I find it hard to consider it a part of my core childhood. But I can understand why someone would disregard ages 5-8 and have a preference for the latter childhood years. For me, it's Grade 5 and Grade 6 (2002-03 and 2003-04) that make me want to lean toward my latter childhood years; Grade 6 especially was a lot of fun. It's a shame Grades 7/8 turned out to be such turds.

It happened with me for 7th grade. That was one of the worst years in my school career. 6th and 8th were decent though.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on04/30/16 at 6:16 pm

It happened with me for 7th grade. That was one of the worst years in my school career. 6th and 8th were decent though.

7th grade is the peak of middle school, and the peak of kids' immaturity with all the jokes and insults throughout their K-12 years transitioning over from 12 to 13 years old, so I'm not surprised. The 7th grade was filled with a bunch of instigators, douches, bitches (or mean girls), etc. I was there too and the pressure was horrible to handle. I was a douchebag but a weirdo/hypocrite at the same time back in 7th grade. I got made fun of at times throughout 7th grade but I made fun of some people too (even though I shouldn't have). I was very immature back then compared to how I am now ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mxcrashxmon04/30/16 at 6:40 pm

7th grade is the peak of middle school, and the peak of kids' immaturity with all the jokes and insults throughout their K-12 years transitioning over from 12 to 13 years old, so I'm not surprised. The 7th grade was filled with a bunch of instigators, douches, bitches (or mean girls), etc. I was there too and the pressure was horrible to handle. I was a douchebag but a weirdo/hypocrite at the same time back in 7th grade. I got made fun of at times throughout 7th grade but I made fun of some people too (even though I shouldn't have). I was very immature back then compared to how I am now ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I did too. Sometimes, remembering a bad year can be funny

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon04/30/16 at 6:56 pm

I remember being in 6th grade missing elementary school so badly because of going through peer pressure and learning so many new things about the real world. I was also into mainstream music, news, celebrities, and politics by the time I was 11 as well.

I felt the same thing in 8th grade, but not because I learned so many new things about the real world. I had to cope with my autism, deal with my best friend being gone, and that I had to a f*cking Disney stage play that I despise to this day. Every day I felt like I should end my life, but I'm glad that those days are over.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on04/30/16 at 9:22 pm

Jordan says he's an 80s kid ;D but he says that because he says 1990-1992 are the 80s lol.

Why you always trashin' 95ers by the way. First you oust them as Gen Z and now questioning their early 2000s kid cred. I see you. :P

Yeah, I was a teenager of the 90's not a kid.

Zelek is a funny guy, I like the way he thinks. The way I see it is that Generation Y ends at 1987 where Millennials begin. ;)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/30/16 at 9:35 pm

Yeah, I was a teenager of the 90's not a kid.

Zelek is a funny guy, I like the way he thinks. The way I see it is that Generation Y ends at 1987 where Millennials begin. ;)

You're a 90s kid millennial.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on04/30/16 at 9:37 pm

You're a 90s kid millennial.

>:(

Fo' real, I was pretty much an adolescent for most of the decade.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on04/30/16 at 10:51 pm

>:(

Fo' real, I was pretty much an adolescent for most of the decade.

I wonder what Zelek has to say to this... Other than Gen X lasting until 1985 and Gen Z starting in 1995 >:(

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on04/30/16 at 10:57 pm

I wonder what Zelek has to say to this... Other than Gen X lasting until 1985 and Gen Z starting in 1995 >:(

Zelek's a smart guy so I know he'll say something I agree with. I like his generational boundaries, too. 8)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon05/01/16 at 2:45 am

I wonder what Zelek has to say to this... Other than Gen X lasting until 1985 and Gen Z starting in 1995 >:(

Zelek a cool guy. Although Gen X ended in 1985 and Z starting in 1995 is a bit strange. That means Y would last less than 10 years.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on05/01/16 at 3:43 am

You're a 90s kid millennial.

Um no.... Jordan is a late 80s and early 90s kid hybrid, he's mostly a core 90s adolescent. He's an early millennial type.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on05/01/16 at 3:45 am

I had to cope with my autism,

I had no idea you were autistic! :o

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:KatanaChickon05/01/16 at 4:05 am

7th grade is the peak of middle school, and the peak of kids' immaturity with all the jokes and insults throughout their K-12 years transitioning over from 12 to 13 years old, so I'm not surprised. The 7th grade was filled with a bunch of instigators, douches, bitches (or mean girls), etc. I was there too and the pressure was horrible to handle. I was a douchebag but a weirdo/hypocrite at the same time back in 7th grade. I got made fun of at times throughout 7th grade but I made fun of some people too (even though I shouldn't have). I was very immature back then compared to how I am now ;D

7th and 8th grade can go to hell in my book! Both were bad, and my first year of high school was basically an extension of it. The crappy cliques started forming as early as late elementary school and that mentality boiled over once those horrid little beasts got to jr. high and entered their early teens. And sometimes you've got to get on their level and fight douchebaggery with douchebaggery because that's the only way they communicate.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon05/01/16 at 4:09 am

7th and 8th grade can go to hell in my book! Both were bad, and my first year of high school was basically an extension of it. The crappy cliques started forming as early as late elementary school and that mentality boiled over once those horrid little beasts got to jr. high and entered their early teens. And sometimes you've got to get on their level and fight douchebaggery with douchebaggery because that's the only way they communicate.

6th and 7th was terrible for me. 8th was slighty better. 9th was the same as 8th. And 10th was awful. Wouldn't be until the 11th grade where things would get better. I normally don't deal with those that I'd consider douchebags, but that's mainly since I'm the type of person who just doesn't bother interacting with people like that. Too bad that pretty much meant that I couldn't interact with over half the people I ran into.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/01/16 at 4:15 am

I quickly learned in school that when people tried to give me sh!t (or sandwiches) that the best solution was to give it right back in their faces. After a while the jocks (or preps or who ever else) left me alone 'cause they couldn't get to me. I didn't care for cliques or any of petty drama, I was only involved in my own business.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon05/01/16 at 4:23 am

I quickly learned in school that when people tried to give me sh!t (or sandwiches) that the best solution was to give it right back in their faces. After a while the jocks (or preps or who ever else) left me alone 'cause they couldn't get to me. I didn't care for cliques or any of petty drama, I was only involved in my own business.

During my school years from 6th grade to 12th grade nearly all my friends have been the same. The friends I had in 12th grade I've met in 6th or 7th grade. School drama is something I can live without. Never cared about being popular and I never cared about what everyone else was interested in. I just stayed to myself and just minded my own business. I enjoyed College much more.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:KatanaChickon05/01/16 at 4:31 am

6th and 7th was terrible for me. 8th was slighty better. 9th was the same as 8th. And 10th was awful. Wouldn't be until the 11th grade where things would get better. I normally don't deal with those that I'd consider douchebags, but that's mainly since I'm the type of person who just doesn't bother interacting with people like that. Too bad that pretty much meant that I couldn't interact with over half the people I ran into.

School improved for me in the second half of tenth grade as far as that went. I never missed the place even so.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon05/01/16 at 4:47 am

School improved for me in the second half of tenth grade as far as that went. I never missed the place even so.

I always wonder why some say they'd want to relive their school years. Youth is nice, but the school part of it included tons of moments that I didn't care about. I liked my 11th and 12th grade, but that's just because they were a bit better than 10th and before. They were not perfect years by any means.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 5:15 am

Kindergarten = OK. Kinda boring. Don't know how people get nostalgic over learning days of the week and watching Barney or whatever. Grades 1 through 6 = Amazing. Grades 7/8 = Complete assGrades 9/10 = Content but not happy.Grade 11 = Hot garbage. Grade 12 = Greatest year of my life up to that pointAll years of university = Golden Age

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon05/01/16 at 5:32 am

Kindergarten = OK. Kinda boring. Don't know how people get nostalgic over learning days of the week and watching Barney or whatever. Grades 1 through 6 = Amazing. Grades 7/8 = Complete assGrades 9/10 = Content but not happy.Grade 11 = Hot garbage. Grade 12 = Greatest year of my life up to that pointAll years of university = Golden Age

Being age 5 is fine, but I never cared for the Kindergarten. And learning about the days of the week just sounds stupid (make sense coming from an adult). Grades 1-5 were fine to me. 6-7 was awful. 8th was ok. 9-10 were meh. 11-12 were nice. University was awesome. And living in with a cool roommate who became a good friend of mine was really nice. I'd never want to relive my college years, but I'm already a bit nostalgic for them.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 10:30 am

Being age 5 is fine, but I never cared for the Kindergarten. And learning about the days of the week just sounds stupid (make sense coming from an adult). Grades 1-5 were fine to me. 6-7 was awful. 8th was ok. 9-10 were meh. 11-12 were nice. University was awesome. And living in with a cool roommate who became a good friend of mine was really nice. I'd never want to relive my college years, but I'm already a bit nostalgic for them.

Yeah I wouldn't want to relive any of my school years either. I'm happy to be done! Go out and get things done! ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on05/01/16 at 1:16 pm

Kindergarten = OK. Kinda boring. Don't know how people get nostalgic over learning days of the week and watching Barney or whatever. Grades 1 through 6 = Amazing. Grades 7/8 = Complete assGrades 9/10 = Content but not happy.Grade 11 = Hot garbage. Grade 12 = Greatest year of my life up to that pointAll years of university = Golden Age

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/01/16 at 1:43 pm

Kindergarten = OK. Kinda boring. Don't know how people get nostalgic over learning days of the week and watching Barney or whatever. Grades 1 through 6 = Amazing. Grades 7/8 = Complete assGrades 9/10 = Content but not happy.Grade 11 = Hot garbage. Grade 12 = Greatest year of my life up to that pointAll years of university = Golden Age

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

4th & 5th grade - workload started getting tougher, started being aware of the real world more, kid culture began to decline, recess started getting reduced to less minutes, but still alright

6th - 8th grade: HORRIBLE!!! especially 6th & 7th grade, most of 8th grade was better but that fight I got into with somebody towards the end of 8th grade summed up my dreadful middle school career in a nutshell, all that hype about being excited for middle school I had back in 5th grade was an epic failure; we already talked about it before so I don't need to explain it again

9th grade: ups and downs, getting used to the environment, but a huge improvement from middle school thank God, more freedom, made a lot of new friends, freshman year of cross country was great, I missed the Class of 2011 seniors when they left :\'( etc.

10th grade: best grade of high school, no more 9th grade building or cafeteria, now I'm in the main high school building hallways and cafeteria with everybody, snack machines are still free, pep rallies were amazing, football team was very special, teachers and classes were great, another great year for cross country, peak of excitement in high school, etc.

11th grade: least favorite year of high school, new principal, snack machines are taken away, new/stricter rules, worst year of cross country due to injury, toughest classes, a bunch of state required tests, beginning of preparation for college, football team sucked, sophomores at the time were so immature and annoying, 2nd semester of junior year had that horrible lunch, etc.

12th grade: AMAZING, most relaxed year high school, got all my work done junior year which payed off, came back with vengeance in cross country and had my best season ever, got accepted to college, first job, only a few classes, senior cafeteria was awesome, had great times with my friends, got to drive by myself anywhere I wanted to, PROM, graduation, etc.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:80sfanon05/01/16 at 2:07 pm

I quickly learned in school that when people tried to give me sh!t (or sandwiches) that the best solution was to give it right back in their faces. After a while the jocks (or preps or who ever else) left me alone 'cause they couldn't get to me. I didn't care for cliques or any of petty drama, I was only involved in my own business.

Did the sandwich taste good? ???

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 2:11 pm

Did the sandwich taste good? ??? The sandwich got him into 90s emo music.

4th & 5th grade - workload started getting tougher, started being aware of the real world more, kid culture began to decline, recess started getting reduced to less minutes, but still alright

6th - 8th grade: HORRIBLE!!! especially 6th & 7th grade, most of 8th grade was better but that fight I got into with somebody towards the end of 8th grade summed up my dreadful middle school career in a nutshell, all that hype about being excited for middle school I had back in 5th grade was an epic failure; we already talked about it before so I don't need to explain it again

9th grade: ups and downs, getting used to the environment, but a huge improvement from middle school thank God, more freedom, made a lot of new friends, freshman year of cross country was great, I missed the Class of 2011 seniors when they left :\'( etc.

10th grade: best grade of high school, no more 9th grade building or cafeteria, now I'm in the main high school building hallways and cafeteria with everybody, snack machines are still free, pep rallies were amazing, football team was very special, teachers and classes were great, another great year for cross country, peak of excitement in high school, etc.

11th grade: least favorite year of high school, new principal, snack machines are taken away, new/stricter rules, worst year of cross country due to injury, toughest classes, a bunch of state required tests, beginning of preparation for college, football team sucked, sophomores at the time were so immature and annoying, 2nd semester of junior year had that horrible lunch, etc.

12th grade: AMAZING, most relaxed year high school, got all my work done junior year which payed off, came back with vengeance in cross country and had my best season ever, got accepted to college, first job, only a few classes, senior cafeteria was awesome, had great times with my friends, got to drive by myself anywhere I wanted to, PROM, graduation, etc.

Why didn't you miss Class of 2012? They knew how to dance to electropop too ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:80sfanon05/01/16 at 2:13 pm

The sandwich got him into 90s emo music.

Shame sandwiches are the worst. :-\\

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on05/01/16 at 2:30 pm

Why didn't you miss Class of 2012? They knew how to dance to electropop too ;D

Class of 2012 was a good senior class too, probably the last senior class that made my high school feel exciting, but when it came to the type of people they weren't as cool as 2011 IMO. In fact, Class of 2011 felt more like leaders and people who'd look out for you than 2012 did. 2011 felt like role models or celebrities with different, unique personalities. A huge chunk of the Class of 2012 either felt they were on steroids or drugs. However, there were many cool, crazy 2012 members as well. This even relates to my cross country team too. The Class of 2011 seniors on my cross country team were very interactive and fun, they lead the practices, team, introduced us to all the courses especially during the meets when I didn't know where I was going. My sophomore of high school, despite how good our cross country team was then, there were only two seniors. The rest of the core team were only freshmen, sophomores, or juniors. Class of 2011 had EVERYBODY, they hyped up the school like crazy.

Now when it comes to the football team at my school the Class of 2012 was better than 2011 without a question. Also, the 2011-2012 school year was the last time my old principal was there when people could still do whatever the hell they wanted to around the school. Nonetheless 2012 still made the school very exciting, which is why my sophomore year was my favorite. When my junior year hit the new principal took over and the atmosphere changed so much. Class of 2013 did not do much to make the school great and the pep rallies were no longer exciting, it felt emotionless by then, however, I have a lot of respect for Class of 2013 since I had a lot of friends from that grade, being in high school with them for 3 years.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 3:02 pm

Class of 2012 was a good senior class too, probably the last senior class that made my high school feel exciting, but when it came to the type of people they weren't as cool as 2011 IMO. In fact, Class of 2011 felt more like leaders and people who'd look out for you than 2012 did. 2011 felt like role models or celebrities with different, unique personalities. A huge chunk of the Class of 2012 either felt they were on steroids or drugs. However, there were many cool, crazy 2012 members as well. This even relates to my cross country team too. The Class of 2011 seniors on my cross country team were very interactive and fun, they lead the practices, team, introduced us to all the courses especially during the meets when I didn't know where I was going. My sophomore of high school, despite how good our cross country team was then, there were only two seniors. The rest of the core team were only freshmen, sophomores, or juniors. Class of 2011 had EVERYBODY, they hyped up the school like crazy.

Now when it comes to the football team at my school the Class of 2012 was better than 2011 without a question. Also, the 2011-2012 school year was the last time my old principal was there when people could still do whatever the hell they wanted to around the school. Nonetheless 2012 still made the school very exciting, which is why my sophomore year was my favorite. When my junior year hit the new principal took over and the atmosphere changed so much. Class of 2013 did not do much to make the school great and the pep rallies were no longer exciting, it felt emotionless by then, however, I have a lot of respect for Class of 2013 since I had a lot of friends from that grade, being in high school with them for 3 years.

Damn, American high school feels like a different experience because you guys have all those sports teams and stuff :o Over here no one cares about the sports teams except the sports teams themselves lol.

I'd say Class of 09 are my favourite, I swear I had almost as many friends in that class as I did in my own ;D Class of 09 had all the Nintendo fangirls and fanboys, and they hosted all the epic parties. Class of 10 was full of Xbox fanboys 8-P Class of 08 are cool people too, met a lot of them in the tech club. Class of 07 I barely got to interact with. I had 2 friends I played DS with in Grade 9, and I still talked to them tons on MSN after they graduated, but I haven't talked to them since 2011. Didn't have much interaction with that class.

2011 kids were cool, they were in a lot of my classes and they hosted a lot of the epic events with our class in 2009-10 school year. 2012 was my brother's class. All his friends were my friends too, more or less, they know how to have fun. Class of 2013 I barely got to interact with. All I remember is that they looked like babies lol. I had one friend in that grade and he was half my height haha.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon05/01/16 at 4:37 pm

Here's a summary of my journey through school.

Preschool (1996-1998): Pretty good. I was still out of synch with a lot of necessary social skills, but I definitely had friends and I had a blast playing with educational computer games, both at home, as well as on the classroom computer.

Kindergarten (1998-1999): This was a great school year. I had just been introduced to Nintendo coming into the year, and video games would enrich my life greatly during this time. I had a great teacher and a memorable set of peers. Eventually, in spring, Pokémania hit, and for that season, it was bloody annoying to me, since I hadn't been formally introduced to the series yet. All this would change, however, in June, when I attended my neighborhood friend's Pokémon-themed ninth birthday party.

1st Grade (1999-2000): I had a lot of trouble this school year. In kindergarten, I only had to attend class during the afternoon, but now I had to be there for a whole days worth, something I had trouble adapting to. A lot of what I learned in class was really boring to me because I was already familiar with it through my educational tools at home. Because of my anxiety, I had to move to a different school, which better suited my needs.

2nd - 4th Grade (2000-2003): The switch to a special-ed school was extremely helpful at the time. The environment was much looser to me, and I was consistently surrounded by peers who were older than me. I still learned quite a lot, and I had an especially wonderful British science teacher, but I was also allowed to go to the motor gym, which was similar to the local kid's fitness center Panda's P.E. in the mid and late 90s. Additionally, we were allowed to bring our Game Boy Advances to school during free time, so I got to bond with my classmates more readily. The high point of my time here would be when I played one of the starring roles in a school play a bout time travel in 3rd grade; it was my first real experience with theatre, and I'm sad that I never got to follow up on it as much as I wanted. Eventually, my parents believed that I had matured to the point that I could return to a regular school. Not to mention, my closest friends were all leaving coming into the following school year.

5th Grade (2003-2004): This was a unique, yet great school year. It was my first time at a regular public school since the beginning of 2000, but unlike 1st grade, I was more than ready to handle a full day of school. I had successfully tested into the seminar program back at my previous school, but since the seminar program in my neighborhood was full, I instead went to Hearst Elementary in Del Cerro instead. I had three very close friends during this time, as well as several other peers who I got along with well. I began playing trombone during this school year, eventually getting into the elementary-level all-city honor band. Unfortunately, near the end of the school year, I began to develop crushes on other girls, and my first crush responded pretty poorly to me, since I would stare at her in class and then follow her during recess. Evidently, I still had a long way to go in finding my social skills.

6th - 8th Grade (2004-2007): My middle school years were definitely darker than 5th grade was, but they weren't without their highlights. As soon as I started 6th grade, I knew I was not a little kid anymore, as my teacher would mark me down for things like not adding an equals sign in the right place or miscorrecting my classmates "morphology" assignments. I did come to really appreciate this geeky angry liberal of a teacher, but it was a challenging adjustment regardless. In-person, I had far fewer close friends, not just because I was really aware of my transgenderism for the first time since toddlerhood, but also because my interests started to significantly diverge from my classmates. The mid-2000s in general were completely dominated by my love of Dance Dance Revolution, which was moderately popular at the time, but still I talked mostly to people on Internet forums like DDR Freak instead to bond over it. I continued to play my trombone throughout these years, becoming the head trombonist in 8th grade. That same school year, I discovered my love for eurobeat music, which brought my isolated tastes to a whole new extreme.

9th - 12th Grade (2007-2011): Ah yes! This was when I began attending the private college preparatory that I still feel really attached to today! While my early years here were mostly a continuation of my Internet isolation period, I began to open up as a person the longer I was here. Between cross country, jazz, theatre, and little quirks like the school's daily news publication, I began to realize just how talented and intriguing other individuals could be, and with a bit of encouragement, I wanted to be a part of that. I changed tremendously during my course here. 12th grade in particular was probably the absolute height of my personal life up to this point, as not only was I doing better in my classes than ever before, I felt more immersed in the school community. This period ended on a sour note, when my high school crush bluntly stated she wanted me to stay away from her, but it was still an unforgettable four years of my life.

College (2011-2015): Easily the darkest period of my life. It began with my high school crush blocking me on Facebook, my daily workload skyrocketing, and my quick development of homesickness. I learned a lot about myself while I was here, going from a paranoid hardcore liberal to a laid-back centrist, in stark contrast to the college campus' ardently progressive environment. I underwent the vast bulk of my gender transition beginning in April 2013, which helped a lot. In general, I felt pretty isolated here, as I was desperate to find love, burdened by homesickness, disillusioned by the SJW culture that emerged in spring 2013, and unable to get the opportunities in theatre that I so wanted. It wasn't an easy experience, but at the same time, I don't have regrets about it because I came out a much greater individual.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:batfan2005on05/01/16 at 4:57 pm

Yeah, I didn't care for the early 00's either, particularly the years of 2001-2003. 2000 was great though, but I associate it as part of the late 90's/Y2K era. 2004 and 2005 were better years for me, but culturally and in my personal life.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/01/16 at 5:00 pm

Yeah, I didn't care for the early 00's either, particularly the years of 2001-2003. 2000 was great though, but I associate it as part of the late 90's/Y2K era. 2004 and 2005 were better years for me, but culturally and in my personal life.

2003-2005 were the GOAT years for the 2000s.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on05/01/16 at 5:24 pm

2003-2005 were the GOAT years for the 2000s.

Along with 2002.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 5:31 pm

2003-2005 were the GOAT years for the 2000s.

Paging Jordan.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/01/16 at 5:42 pm

2003-2005 were the GOAT years for the 2000s.

I think you mean 2000-2002 are the GOAT's grass of the 2000s. ;)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/01/16 at 6:57 pm

I think you mean 2000-2002 are the GOAT's grass of the 2000s. ;)

Hahahaha no.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Zelek2on05/01/16 at 7:27 pm

Even though the mid-2000s are NOT the Y2K era, I believe certain scant parts of the Y2K era (i.e. Malcolm in the Middle, GBA, Yu-gi-oh) lasted until fall 2006, after which they were never seen again.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mach!ne_he@don05/01/16 at 7:43 pm

Katana Queen said something very similar a few months ago when she told us that her peak childhood was from age 8-11 and I remember her saying she couldn't remember being 6 & 7 that well. She was born in 1985 (same year as bchris as well), both of them graduated in 2004 (10 years before us), and they don't consider the early 90's important to their childhood as the mid 90's, despite being born in the mid 80's. This is another big reason why I think age 8 is the most important age that determines peak childhood for most people on average, because not everybody agrees that 7 or under is apart of their peak, while some people don't agree 9 or up is apart of their peak as well. I haven't seen one person yet who thinks age 8 isn't important to their childhood.

As a 1996 born the only early 2000's years that were part of my peak were 2002 & 2003 when I was 6 & 7, but 2004-2006 when I was 8-10 were mid 2000's which were also in my peak without a question. So my peak childhood was both early & mid 2000's but leaning slightly towards mid. I don't consider 2000 & 2001 as part of my peak (those still feel like early to me) while 2007-2009 the whole late 2000's were my late childhood/preteen years.

I agree about age 8 being the "absolute peak" of childhood. When I think of "being a kid", in the generic sense anyway, the first stuff that pops into my head are things like Pogs, Goosebumps, Power Rangers, Super Nintendo, Rocko's Modern Life, and so on. Basically the kid culture of the 1995-96 school year.

In some ways, I could argue that my "childhood" years ran all the way up to 2001. I know that most people here would probably balk at still considering themselves a kid at 13, but the 2001-02 school year was just such a changeful time for me (parents moving, 9/11 happening, starting high school) that the summer of 2001 has this sort of magical, "end of innocence" feel to it that makes it feel like a perfect bookend.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 8:39 pm

Even though the mid-2000s are NOT the Y2K era, I believe certain scant parts of the Y2K era (i.e. Malcolm in the Middle, GBA, Yu-gi-oh) lasted until fall 2006, after which they were never seen again.

I don't really associate GBA with the Y2K era. I mean, yeah it came out in 2001, and a lot of its games are Y2K era, but as a system it didn't really take off until 2003 when Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire and GBASP came out.

Gameboy Color is the real Y2K era handheld. It, along with the N64 are the ubiquitous Pokémania systems. By Holiday Season 1998 everyone owned it, and its popularity continued in 1999/2000 when more top selling Pokémon games released for it.

2002-03 school year was the peak of Yu-Gi-Oh, after that it became less popular. Or maybe people my age grew out of it, idk. I gave away all my Yu-Gi-Oh cards to this little kid in 2006 (I think he was 9 or 10) so maybe it was still popular then. 2003-04 was Beyblade, I don't know what comes afterwards.

You're right about Malcolm In The Middle. There was also Charmed (although I don't really consider that a Y2K era show).

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Zelek2on05/01/16 at 9:24 pm

Yu go oh became less popular after 2004, but summer 2006 is when I'd say the franchise well and truly "died" (or at least when the TV show ended). :P

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 9:28 pm

Yu go oh became less popular after 2004, but summer 2006 is when I'd say the franchise well and truly "died" (or at least when the TV show ended). :P

Don't they still air new episodes? They're all midgets now ;D

There was actually a Yu-Gi-Oh "revival" at my high school during 2009-10 school year. Well, I wouldn't call it a revival, but sometimes I went to school 30-45 minutes early to hang out with some of my friends, and there were always kids playing Yu-Gi-Oh the in the middle of the hallways, and sometimes we'd join them.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/01/16 at 9:29 pm

I don't really associate GBA with the Y2K era. I mean, yeah it came out in 2001, and a lot of its games are Y2K era, but as a system it didn't really take off until 2003 when Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire and GBASP came out.

Gameboy Color is the real Y2K era handheld. It, along with the N64 are the ubiquitous Pokémania systems. By Holiday Season 1998 everyone owned it, and its popularity continued in 1999/2000 when more top selling Pokémon games released for it.

2002-03 school year was the peak of Yu-Gi-Oh, after that it became less popular. Or maybe people my age grew out of it, idk. I gave away all my Yu-Gi-Oh cards to this little kid in 2006 (I think he was 9 or 10) so maybe it was still popular then. 2003-04 was Beyblade, I don't know what comes afterwards.

You're right about Malcolm In The Middle. There was also Charmed (although I don't really consider that a Y2K era show).

I dunno about all this children's stuff but I read that Beyblade was popular from 2000 to 2003 (according to the internet). GBA is late 90's/early 00's but SP is for the real 00s. Malcolm in the Middle was an early 00's nostalgia show buy Charmed was more early 00s since it spent 5/6 years in the early and 3/4 years in the real 00s. ;)

Yu go oh became less popular after 2004, but summer 2006 is when I'd say the franchise well and truly "died" (or at least when the TV show ended). :P

I don't know anything about Yu Go Ohs but Wikipedia told me only virgins played those games. Is this true?

Even though the mid-2000s are NOT the Y2K era, I believe certain scant parts of the Y2K era (i.e. Malcolm in the Middle, GBA, Yu-gi-oh) lasted until fall 2006, after which they were never seen again.

Malcolm in the Middle is always going to be an early 00's nostalgia show (post-2003 seasons, that is) in my eyes. ;)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 9:33 pm

I dunno about all this children's stuff but I read that Beyblade was popular from 2000 to 2003 (according to the internet). GBA is late 90's/early 00's but SP is for the real 00s. Malcolm in the Middle was an early 00's nostalgia show buy Charmed was more early 00s since it spent 5/6 years in the early and 3/4 years in the real 00s. ;)

I don't know anything about Yu Go Ohs but Wikipedia told me only virgins played those games. Is this true?

Malcolm in the Middle is always going to be an early 00's nostalgia show (post-2003 seasons, that is) in my eyes. ;)

Beyblade didn't start airing until summer 2002 so that isn't possible. GBA came out 2001 so I don't see how it's late 90s. I watched Charmed, it feels more mid-2000s, but that's probably because I watched it in the mid-2000s.

And yeah, Yu-Gi-Oh is a game for nerds. We live in a perfect world now and all the geeks get the girls, so I wouldn't say it's for virgins.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/01/16 at 9:38 pm

Beyblade didn't start airing until summer 2002 so that isn't possible. GBA came out 2001 so I don't see how it's late 90s. I watched Charmed, it feels more mid-2000s, but that's probably because I watched it in the mid-2000s.

And yeah, Yu-Gi-Oh is a game for nerds. We live in a perfect world now and all the geeks get the girls, so I wouldn't say it's for virgins.

But the toys came out in 2000, didn't they? It's late 90s/early 00s/Xtreme! times. ;) I watched it, too. Early seasons didn't feel like the real 00s at all.

There is a photo on Wikipedia that shows 4 dudes playing with the cards and it reads "4 virgin men playing Yu Gi Oh" so I had to confirm. I just checked again but it looks like someone edited out that description... :-\\

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 9:44 pm

But the toys came out in 2000, didn't they? It's late 90s/early 00s/Xtreme! times. ;) I watched it, too. Early seasons didn't feel like the real 00s at all.

There is a photo on Wikipedia that shows 4 dudes playing with the cards and it reads "4 virgin men playing Yu Gi Oh" so I had to confirm. I just checked again but it looks like someone edited out that description... :-\\

They did? I don't see why anyone would buy it though even if it's available. Spring 2003 or so is when I remember it getting popular. The TV show was made in the Y2K era but the toy fad itself doesn't have much to do with the Y2K era.

Well I'll take your word for Charmed, but it definitely wasn't a Y2K era show in 2006.

LOL well maybe they are virgins, who knows.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/01/16 at 9:50 pm

They did? I don't see why anyone would buy it though even if it's available. Spring 2003 or so is when I remember it getting popular. The TV show was made in the Y2K era but the toy fad itself doesn't have much to do with the Y2K era.

Well I'll take your word for Charmed, but it definitely wasn't a Y2K era show in 2006.

LOL well maybe they are virgins, who knows.

I can buy that. You're the expert here, all I know is that Beyblade has an Xtreme! theme song 'cause Toon showed it to me.

Correct. 2006 was all about Pepsi Cyanide commercials. ;D

I thought it was funny. Too bad someone edited it out because the photo looks absolutely ridiculous!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 10:36 pm

I can buy that. You're the expert here, all I know is that Beyblade has an Xtreme! theme song 'cause Toon showed it to me.

Correct. 2006 was all about Pepsi Cyanide commercials. ;D

I thought it was funny. Too bad someone edited it out because the photo looks absolutely ridiculous!

BTW don't tell me you missed my American Hi-Fi reference. That was their best song ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/01/16 at 10:38 pm

BTW don't tell me you missed my American Hi-Fi reference. That was their best song ;D

Dude, that song's off Hearts on Parade... Their new album is much, much better than that one!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/01/16 at 10:41 pm

Dude, that song's off Hearts on Parade... Their new album is much, much better than that one! Oh, you liked Blood and Lemonade? I liked a few tracks off it too :D (Armageddon Days, Carry The Sorrow, Portland, No Ordinary Life)

But it doesn't matter what album it was on, that song was their GOAT.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on05/02/16 at 12:05 am

Along with 2002.

2001 as well ;)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on05/02/16 at 12:13 am

Back on topic here people! ::)

I understand why Chris doesn't miss the early 2000s, he disliked being a teen and went through some BS in life during that stage of his life....

I was in the same EXACT position in the early 2010s; personal life wise. The first year or tow of high school was the darkest time of my life. I myself do NOT miss the early 2010s AT ALL for those reasons I just stated....

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon05/02/16 at 12:29 am

Back on topic here people! ::)

I understand why Chris doesn't miss the early 2000s, he disliked being a teen and went through some BS in life during that stage of his life....

I was in the same EXACT position in the early 2010s; personal life wise. The first year or tow of high school was the darkest time of my life. I myself do NOT miss the early 2010s AT ALL for those reasons I just stated....

How DARE you get bring this back on topic!

Hated my early teen years. I remember thinking that being a teen was gonna be cool as I wouldn't be a kid anymore. I remember seeing all the teens and thought that they were cool. Soon as I turned 13 things just gotten worse. Makes me wonder if all those other teens I saw as a kid were in the same situation.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/02/16 at 12:52 am

Actually me, Jordan and Zelek were on topic because we were talking about the Y2K era and the early 2000s. Now you guys are talking about the early 10s? :P

Back on topic here people! ::)

I understand why Chris doesn't miss the early 2000s, he disliked being a teen and went through some BS in life during that stage of his life....

I was in the same EXACT position in the early 2010s; personal life wise. The first year or tow of high school was the darkest time of my life. I myself do NOT miss the early 2010s AT ALL for those reasons I just stated....

I think the reasons Chris gave were rather specific to the early 2000s and not just his teen years. It resonated with me and I feel like if I was his age, I would have hated the early 2000s too.

Comparing it to the early 10s...

1) Conformist: the early 10s were the opposite of conformist. I was a teen in the mid-2000s, late 2000s and the early 10s and I can say that confidently. Nerd/geek culture took off and being weird, quirky and non-mainstream was celebrated. 2) School shooting hysteria: no school shooting hysteria in the early 10s. (I don't think the school shooting hysteria was that big in the early 2000s either, but I didn't learn about Columbine till I got into high school) 3) 9/11: the early 10s were the most peaceful and politically stable times we have seen since the late 90s.4) Homophobia: the 2010s deserve a damn medal. The history books will applaud this generation for the massive gains made here in such a short period of time. 5) Tech: smartphones were primitive, but they were so new and fascinating that most people were not complaining. iPad also came out. 6) Recession: this is the one that bogs the early 10s down. The recession was bad, no sugar coating it. Although, if I were to sugar coat it, I'd say I loved the communal vibe that came out of the post-recession society. The colourful fashion and upbeat music that came afterwards to make people feel better despite the terrible economy, I thought that was super fun. 7) Movies - the early 10s were better than most the 2000s in movies, but they're not good as the mid 10s. We got Inception though and that is really all that matters. :D8) Personal life: okay, this one sucked for you, as you said.

So you've got 2/8. If you want to hate on the early 10s you're going to have to come up with your own reasons :P The other 7 reasons Chris gave are very specific to the early 2000s.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon05/02/16 at 12:54 am

Actually me, Jordan and Zelek were on topic because we were talking about the Y2K era and the early 2000s. Now you guys are talking about the early 10s? :P

I think the reasons Chris gave were rather specific to the early 2000s and not just his teen years. It resonated with me and I feel like if I was his age, I would have hated the early 2000s too.

Comparing it to the early 10s...

1) Conformist: the early 10s were the opposite of conformist. Nerd/geek culture took off and being weird, quirky and non-mainstream was celebrated. 2) School shooting hysteria: no school shooting hysteria in the early 10s. (I don't think the school shooting hysteria was that big in the early 2000s either, but I didn't learn about Columbine till I got into high school) 3) 9/11: the early 10s were the most peaceful and politically stable times we have seen since the late 90s.4) Homophobia: the 2010s deserve a damn medal. The history books will applaud this generation for the massive gains made here in such a short period of time. 5) Tech: smartphones were primitive, but they were so new and fascinating that most people were not complaining. iPad also came out. 6) Recession: this is the one that bogs the early 10s down. The recession was bad, no sugar coating it. Although, if I were to sugar coat it, I'd say I loved the communal vibe that came out of the post-recession society. The colourful fashion and upbeat music that came afterwards to make people feel better despite the terrible economy, I thought that was super fun. 7) Movies - the early 10s were better than most the 2000s in movies, but they're not good as the mid 10s. We got Inception though and that is really all that matters. :D8) Personal life: okay, this one sucked for you, as you said.

So you've got 2/8. If you want to hate on the early 10s you're going to have to come up with your own reasons :P The other 7 reasons Chris gave are very specific to the early 2000s.

2010s is too peaceful of a decade. Heck I can't believe things such as crime has been the lowest as of this decade. None of the previous decades even compare. Not that this is a bad thing though.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/02/16 at 12:58 am

The 2010's are literally the opposite of non-conformist. ::) Also, don't forget Sandy Hook happened, like, less than 4 years ago. There was a lot of hysteria and it was worse because this involved young children rather than teenagers.

Early 00's for life!

Side note: I seem to be one of the few people here who loved their teen years. They were rad. Skating to Dookie and Smash, going to good Warped Tours, playing the PS1... Super cool! 8)

Oh, you liked Blood and Lemonade? I liked a few tracks off it too :D (Armageddon Days, Carry The Sorrow, Portland, No Ordinary Life)

But it doesn't matter what album it was on, that song was their GOAT.

The GOAT? No way! Blood and Lemonade isn't too bad, I'd say it's almost up there with the first two albums.

2010s is too peaceful of a decade. Heck I can't believe things such as crime has been the lowest as of this decade. None of the previous decades even compare. Not that this is a bad thing though.

Too bad the economy is still in the gutter.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon05/02/16 at 1:00 am

Side note: I seem to be one of the few people here who loved their teen years. They were rad. Skating to Dookie and Smash, going to good Warped Tours, playing the PS1... Super cool! 8)

I like my teen years, but only 16 and up.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/02/16 at 1:05 am

The 2010's are literally the opposite of non-conformist. ::) Also, don't forget Sandy Hook happened, like, less than 4 years ago. There was a lot of hysteria and it was worse because this involved young children rather than teenagers.

Early 00's for life!

Side note: I seem to be one of the few people here who loved their teen years. They were rad. Skating to Dookie and Smash, going to good Warped Tours, playing the PS1... Super cool! 8)

The GOAT? No way! Blood and Lemonade isn't too bad, I'd say it's almost up there with the first two albums.

The 2010s aren't conformist. The only thing I've heard you guys complain about in 2010s conformist culture is that it's so non conformist that it comes out the other side and becomes conformist, because not being original is frowned upon :o

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on05/02/16 at 1:06 am

Actually me, Jordan and Zelek were on topic because we were talking about the Y2K era and the early 2000s. Now you guys are talking about the early 10s? :P

I think the reasons Chris gave were rather specific to the early 2000s and not just his teen years. It resonated with me and I feel like if I was his age, I would have hated the early 2000s too.

Comparing it to the early 10s...

1) Conformist: the early 10s were the opposite of conformist. I was a teen in the mid-2000s, late 2000s and the early 10s and I can say that confidently. Nerd/geek culture took off and being weird, quirky and non-mainstream was celebrated. 2) School shooting hysteria: no school shooting hysteria in the early 10s. (I don't think the school shooting hysteria was that big in the early 2000s either, but I didn't learn about Columbine till I got into high school) 3) 9/11: the early 10s were the most peaceful and politically stable times we have seen since the late 90s.4) Homophobia: the 2010s deserve a damn medal. The history books will applaud this generation for the massive gains made here in such a short period of time. 5) Tech: smartphones were primitive, but they were so new and fascinating that most people were not complaining. iPad also came out. 6) Recession: this is the one that bogs the early 10s down. The recession was bad, no sugar coating it. Although, if I were to sugar coat it, I'd say I loved the communal vibe that came out of the post-recession society. The colourful fashion and upbeat music that came afterwards to make people feel better despite the terrible economy, I thought that was super fun. 7) Movies - the early 10s were better than most the 2000s in movies, but they're not good as the mid 10s. We got Inception though and that is really all that matters. :D 8) Personal life: okay, this one sucked for you, as you said.

So you've got 2/8. If you want to hate on the early 10s you're going to have to come up with your own reasons :P The other 7 reasons Chris gave are very specific to the early 2000s.

First off all... I wasn't talking about the early 10s! I was talking about my life during that time, learn to read....

Second, I can tell you're an early 10s fanboy, and you are NEVER going to get me to like that time better than the early 2000s. I loved being a kid and having fun in the early 00s in elementary school.

I DO NOT MISS, being picked on, bullied, uncomfortable around folks, waking up at 7:00 in the morning, dealing with people's BS, getting hollered at for no reason, and that atmosphere of HS.It was a dark time for me and you are NOT going to change my mind buddy!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

The 2010s aren't conformist. The only thing I've heard you guys complain about in 2010s conformist culture is that it's so non conformist that it comes out the other side and becomes conformist, because not being original is frowned upon :o

Nope Sandy hook was early 10s... How was late 2012 mid 10s culutre? That doesn't make ANY DAMN sense... Obama's first term wasn't even over yet!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on05/02/16 at 1:08 am

The 2010's are literally the opposite of non-conformist. ::) Also, don't forget Sandy Hook happened, like, less than 4 years ago. There was a lot of hysteria and it was worse because this involved young children rather than teenagers.Early 00's for life!

Side note: I seem to be one of the few people here who loved their teen years. They were rad. Skating to Dookie and Smash, going to good Warped Tours, playing the PS1... Super cool! 8)

Thank you Jordan! :)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/02/16 at 1:10 am

I like my teen years, but only 16 and up.

That's even better! 16 is great because you can drive which gives you even more freedom to do whatever you want. What I don't understand, especially on other places on the internet where a lot of nostalgic people shoot the sh!t, is the obsession with childhood. I get it, innocence blahblahblah, but when I think back to my childhood: I loved going to the movies with my brother, seeing cool movies like Bill and Ted and playing NES but there isn't much else to it. I had a good family and upbringing but I wouldn't sacrifice the good times I had from my early teens to young adulthood (or even now, I don't mind being older because I can do whatever) just to be a little human-type-thing with a basic personality (which is also just an extension of who ever is around you like your parents) and no freedom. I didn't really become **me** until later on and I don't understand why people would wanna trade their developments (unless they have a sh!tty life currently or whatever) and freedom to be a kid again. A lot of "90's kids" may have had sh!tty teen years but weren't their college/adult lives decent enough? I just don't understand it.

The 2010s aren't conformist. The only thing I've heard you guys complain about in 2010s conformist culture is that it's so non conformist that it comes out the other side and becomes conformist, because not being original is frowned upon :o

Mathematically it is early 10's so I'm right. You're only right in your own "head canon" and whoever shares that view. ;) 2010's are too conformist. Everyone is either into bad hipster hip hop or bad hipster indie pop.

Thank you Jordan! :)

You are very welcome, Eric! ;)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/02/16 at 1:15 am

Nope Sandy hook was early 10s... How was late 2012 mid 10s culutre? That doesn't make ANY DAMN sense... Obama's first term wasn't even over yet!

His first term was de facto over. He was reelected. The shooting was after his reelection. All the political turmoil in late 2012/early 2013, I associate with the transition into mid-10s culture. Either way, if you wanna go the mathematical route, the school shooting hysteria is 4 months out of 40 of the early 10s, so I don't see how it defines the entire period. ::) it's grasping.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on05/02/16 at 1:18 am

His first term was de facto over. He was reelected. The shooting was after his reelection. All the political turmoil in late 2012/early 2013, I associate with the transition into mid-10s culture. Either way, if you wanna go the mathematical route, the school shooting hysteria is 4 months out of 40 of the early 10s, so I don't see how it defines the entire period. ::) it's grasping.

Yeah, but he got re inaugurated in Jan 2013 though... ::) late 2012 was STILL his first term. Just like Obama will still be president until Jan 2017...

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/02/16 at 1:21 am

His first term was de facto over. He was reelected. The shooting was after his reelection. All the political turmoil in late 2012/early 2013, I associate with the transition into mid-10s culture. Either way, if you wanna go the mathematical route, the school shooting hysteria is 4 months out of 40 of the early 10s, so I don't see how it defines the entire period. ::) it's grasping.

Shootings extended past school hysteria in the early 10's, too. Remember that guy who shoot those people during the Dark Knight Rises premiere?

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on05/02/16 at 1:23 am

Shootings extended past school hysteria in the early 10's, too. Remember that guy who shoot those people during the Dark Knight Rises premiere?

and Gabby Gifford in 2011. ...now we're really getting off topic! ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/02/16 at 1:24 am

Shootings extended past school hysteria in the early 10's, too. Remember that guy who shoot those people during the Dark Knight Rises premiere?

You Americans and your guns.... :o

Make that 10 out of 40, mostly 2012. Still very peaceful.

and Gabby Gifford in 2011. ...now we're really getting off topic! ;D

Who's he?

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Toonon05/02/16 at 1:26 am

His first term was de facto over. He was reelected. The shooting was after his reelection. All the political turmoil in late 2012/early 2013, I associate with the transition into mid-10s culture. Either way, if you wanna go the mathematical route, the school shooting hysteria is 4 months out of 40 of the early 10s, so I don't see how it defines the entire period. ::) it's grasping.

You'd be surprise that there are people who're think like that. ???

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/02/16 at 1:27 am

and Gabby Gifford in 2011. ...now we're really getting off topic! ;D

Yeah, she got shot in the head. A 9 year old girl plus 5 others died that day.

You Americans and your guns.... :o

Make that 10 out of 40, mostly 2012. Still very peaceful.

Who's he?

She. She's involved in Congress from Arizona.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/02/16 at 1:30 am

Yeah, she got shot in the head. A 9 year old girl plus 5 others died that day.

She. She's involved in Congress from Arizona.

You guys have massacres every week, like I'm not even kidding. That hasn't changed since the 70s. It's only important when 20+ people die. That's Sandy Hook and that theatre shooting.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/02/16 at 1:33 am

You guys have massacres every week, like I'm not even kidding. That hasn't changed since the 70s. It's only important when 20+ people die. That's Sandy Hook and that theatre shooting.

Yeah, Canada doesn't even have any massacres. Crime's probably stayed the same over there as it was years before, I bet. ;)

Also, "theatre." US spelling is the superior spelling to you guys and your faux-Euro ways.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/02/16 at 1:43 am

Yeah, Canada doesn't even have any massacres. Crime's probably stayed the same over there as it was years before, I bet. ;)

Also, "theatre." US spelling is the superior spelling to you guys and your faux-Euro ways.

2014 was the safest year since 1966 in Canada :D

I like my Frenchy French spellings. Also why do you guys spell it massacre and not massacer :P we're done.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Eazy-EMAN1995on05/02/16 at 2:32 am

You Americans and your guns.... :o

Make that 10 out of 40, mostly 2012. Still very peaceful.

In country it was peaceful, but not over here...

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/02/16 at 4:39 am

2014 was the safest year since 1966 in Canada :D

I like my Frenchy French spellings. Also why do you guys spell it massacre and not massacer :P we're done.

Canada never has crime, though. You guys are all about saying 'sorry' and maple syrup. ;)

So this song could be written:

cYI1-Dy0wmI

I rest my case!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on05/02/16 at 6:02 am

Back on topic here people! ::)

I understand why Chris doesn't miss the early 2000s, he disliked being a teen and went through some BS in life during that stage of his life....

I was in the same EXACT position in the early 2010s; personal life wise. The first year or tow of high school was the darkest time of my life. I myself do NOT miss the early 2010s AT ALL for those reasons I just stated....

I hated my middle school years the most out of my whole K-12 years. That's the thing the late 2000's were kinda the worst for my personal life despite how better the political/lifestyle and some mainstream culture were back then compared to now. The early 2010's, or my high school years were so much better some reason. In fact, my life got so much better as soon as I started my freshman year of high school, now 9th grade was not perfect, but I still made a lot of new friends though, and sophomore year things got even better too (which was my favorite year of high school). Senior year ended up being fun and relaxing for me, barely any classes to take, so much freedom so I could drive anywhere I wanted to, and just ready to get out of the school, and of course you know how difficult my junior year was.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on05/02/16 at 6:05 am

I DO NOT MISS, being picked on, bullied, uncomfortable around folks, waking up at 7:00 in the morning, dealing with people's BS, getting hollered at for no reason, and that atmosphere of HS.It was a dark time for me and you are NOT going to change my mind buddy!

That's exactly how I felt about 6th & 7th grade in a nutshell. 8th grade to an extent sometimes. 9th grade has its ups and downs like I said before despite how great the environment was and how much of an improvement it was from middle school for me. My personal life in the mid 2010's has been a lot better as well.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/02/16 at 8:30 am

In country it was peaceful, but not over here...

I guess. To be honest, I never felt unsafe, not even after 9/11, so I'm just going by massacres that were so bad that the president had to address them, and the massacre that made international news.

Canada never has crime, though. You guys are all about saying 'sorry' and maple syrup. ;)

So this song could be written:

cYI1-Dy0wmI

I rest my case!

LOL a Canadian band should've written that. You guys should stick to your own spellings rules :P

Me neither. People these days wanna hide in boxes. Boo hoo, the outside world is so scary. You might as well stop driving you car since that can kill you. Workplace related accidents kill people all the time so if you feel unsafe why not quit your job? Should stop eating, too, since you could choke and possibly die!! What about when nature calls? Hold it in and get bloated and die!?!?! Or let it out and die from a mishap!? I feel so unsafe in my country. :-\\ :\'(

Yeah, maybe The Pointed Sticks or DOA should of! It would of been pretty cool if they covered it. ;D

Also, those photos are great. I e-mailed them to my uncle.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/02/16 at 9:18 pm

Me neither. People these days wanna hide in boxes. Boo hoo, the outside world is so scary. You might as well stop driving you car since that can kill you. Workplace related accidents kill people all the time so if you feel unsafe why not quit your job? Should stop eating, too, since you could choke and possibly die!! What about when nature calls? Hold it in and get bloated and die!?!?! Or let it out and die from a mishap!? I feel so unsafe in my country. :-\\ :\'(

Yeah, maybe The Pointed Sticks or DOA should of! It would of been pretty cool if they covered it. ;D

Also, those photos are great. I e-mailed them to my uncle.

The only thing I'm afraid of in this world is spiders, and that's it. Terrorists shmerrorists.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/02/16 at 9:19 pm

The only thing I'm afraid of in this world is spiders, and that's it. Terrorists shmerrorists.

I like your attitude! ;)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mxcrashxmon05/02/16 at 10:18 pm

Hated my early teen years. I remember thinking that being a teen was gonna be cool as I wouldn't be a kid anymore. I remember seeing all the teens and thought that they were cool. Soon as I turned 13 things just gotten worse. Makes me wonder if all those other teens I saw as a kid were in the same situation. I must be in the minority. My early teen/adolescence wasn't that bad. I had already felt the transition long before my childhood ended.

2010s is too peaceful of a decade. Heck I can't believe things such as crime has been the lowest as of this decade. None of the previous decades even compare. Not that this is a bad thing though. The reason for that is because young are less likely to commit crimes and that everyone is basically being watched by each other. Even more, most people are too focused on their phones to think about committing a crime.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:80sfanon05/02/16 at 10:33 pm

I guess. To be honest, I never felt unsafe, not even after 9/11, so I'm just going by massacres that were so bad that the president had to address them, and the massacre that made international news.

LOL a Canadian band should've written that. You guys should stick to your own spellings rules :P

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

I actually wanted to visit Canada since 2007. Hope my dream comes true one day. Now's a good time as ever! Our Canadian dollar isn't worth poop, you'll live like a king! ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:bchris02on05/22/16 at 4:53 pm

I miss the Early 2000's. Back when America was still a great country to live in and hadn't been destroyed yet by liberal Apple-loving communist democrats.

People then thought America was going to hell in a handbasket. Remember Bill Clinton and the Lewinsky scandal? That happened in the late '90s but was fresh on people's minds at the time. People blamed 9/11 on gay rights and there was a conservative cultural backlash against the more permissive '90s that lasted about five years or so. I can't remember any time since I've been born when you didn't have a specific political party lamenting the downfall of America.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/22/16 at 5:00 pm

I miss the Early 2000's. Back when America was still a great country to live in and hadn't been destroyed yet by liberal Apple-loving communist democrats.

America wasn't ruined until the SJW craze in 2013 happened. It was pretty cancerous as f*ck, but not as bad as Bush supporters in the 2000s. Although, I do respect each and every one of them.

Back when Star Wars and The Simpsons were in their prime, back when NASCAR was still fun to watch and hadn't been destroyed by Brian France, back when the Yankees and Braves were the best teams in baseball, and back when Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera were the hottest women on Earth.

Star Wars wasn't that good with the prequels in the late 90s/early-mid 2000s. Even though I watch The Phantom Menace, and that's the only Star Wars movie that I watch. The Simpsons were alright during the early 2000s, but not as good as its episodes in the early-mid 90s. Hell, I wasn't even born during its prime and I like the early-mid 90s than the ones from the late 90s to present. In my honest opinion, Nascar is just sincerely overrated. It's just cars racing against each other since 1948. There was nothing different between the company. I could of how something like WWE being different from the early 2000s, but that's because it wasn't kid friendly at the time. Nowadays, you'll probably see a lot of kid friendly WWE stories everywhere. As for the Yankees and Braves, their dynasties have been continuing on from the mid 2000s. The Braves kept continuing on winning NL East titles until 2005, while the Yankees went from one of the AL's best teams in 1995-2012. Britney Spears was also good during the mid 2000s, but then people got upset after she cut her hair in 2007.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Slim95on05/22/16 at 5:54 pm

If SJW is the price to pay for equality and laws that support human rights and more acceptance towards minorities, I'm totally fine with it.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/22/16 at 6:20 pm

If SJW is the price to pay for equality and laws that support human rights and more acceptance towards minorities, I'm totally fine with it.

Except that being an SJW isn't great, because they whine about EVERYTHING that seems offensive towards them. Including stuff like LGBT issues, which is already fading.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/22/16 at 6:33 pm

The early 00's were just as rad as the 90's and I'd definitely love to go back and relive all of 1995-2002. Things were much, much better back then when I was a teenager. Today, you guys have it lame. I cannot stomach the songs that play on the radio whereas in the early 00s I liked a lot of the music and could somewhat tolerate the stuff I didn't like (it still sucked, don't get me wrong and I don't want it back but it's far better than the stuff they churn out today).

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon05/22/16 at 6:38 pm

So protecting minorities is more important than protecting our country? Typical liberal hogwash. I think you've been watching too much CNN, kid! ::)

Protecting our country from what? Minorities themselves? Because they're all gonna rape your women and corrupt society just by their very presence?

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/22/16 at 7:10 pm

Name calling makes for a solid argument.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon05/22/16 at 7:29 pm

Protect our country from terrorism you liberal doofus.

That doesn't mean minority civil rights should be nobody's priority when they're one of the primary causes of domestic unrest in the United States. It's possible to combat terrorism abroad and stand up for civil rights simultaneously, you know?

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/22/16 at 7:33 pm

And go back to jacking off to your dinosaur rockbands. Rock is dead.

You dunce, "dinosaur rock band" is a term they use for 70s bands.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Slim95on05/22/16 at 7:45 pm

Except that being an SJW isn't great, because they whine about EVERYTHING that seems offensive towards them. Including stuff like LGBT issues, which is already fading.

Like I said, if that's the price to pay for all the other great things, I will totally tolerate it.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Slim95on05/22/16 at 7:46 pm

So protecting minorities is more important than protecting our country? Typical liberal hogwash. I think you've been watching too much CNN, kid! ::)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

I hope not. This is what Trump supporters are. This is who "anti-SJWs" are. Everyone needs to see it. :)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mxcrashxmon05/22/16 at 8:11 pm

I hope not. This is what Trump supporters are. This is who "anti-SJWs" are. Everyone needs to see it. :)Not every anti-SJW is a Trump supporter though. ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/22/16 at 8:21 pm

Because we hate what America has become. We hate this generation. You are so perfect, so educated, go to college, get married, have great social lives, like terrible television, terrible music, terrible fashion, love Social Media, love technology, love being healthy, literally there is nothing wrong with you. You all perfect little emotionless robots that do no wrong. You are the gayest generation ever.

But millennials are none of those things aside from the terrible tastes and social media/technology sh!t. They're more about getting divorced, not affording college, being lazy, terrible social lives, lacking critical thinking and being educated by whatever they read online. "Perfect" is a bad way to put it.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/22/16 at 8:22 pm

America doesn't need you're rap loving black ass retard.

I don't think Slim95 is black. BTW, rap music was invented by Americans. Just to let you know. Also, I think this kind of literature would get you banned from InThe00s. So, don't really make racist remarks on the members.

I hope not. This is what Trump supporters are. This is who "anti-SJWs" are. Everyone needs to see it. :)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

I've never seen anyone use the word unironically and still sound intelligent. I'm getting tired of seeing that word here, but whatever. No more derailing threads!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/22/16 at 8:30 pm

Because we hate what America has become. We hate this generation. You are so perfect, so educated, go to college, get married, have great social lives, like terrible television, terrible music, terrible fashion, love Social Media, love technology, love being healthy, literally there is nothing wrong with you. You all perfect little emotionless robots that do no wrong. You are the gayest generation ever.

Didn't every generation have that kind of thing too? I mean the way you described it, it sounded like you were describing every other perfect time in the past. People were also like that ever since that philosophy became mainstream, not just the 2010s.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mxcrashxmon05/22/16 at 8:46 pm

I've never seen anyone use the word unironically and still sound intelligent. I'm getting tired of seeing that word here, but whatever. No more derailing threads!Yeah, I'm with NYE. I don't like SJWs and I don't support Trump either. I would like to be an activist and change the world for the better and I'm not one of those "If you don't agree with my views, you're a dumbass" liberal. I'm the real deal ;).

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/22/16 at 10:48 pm

Yeah, I'm with NYE. I don't like SJWs and I don't support Trump either. I would like to be an activist and change the world for the better and I'm not one of those "If you don't agree with my views, you're a dumbass" liberal. I'm the real deal ;).

You won't get anything done if you try to be all things to all people. I'm an "activist" in some spheres (recently I did some environmentalist work, and I volunteered for candidates in the 2014 and 2015 elections here) and if I wasted time on antis instead of rallying like-minded people I would have got nothing done. The whole point of it is to show other people that they are wrong, and some people are naturally not going to like it. But whatever, the American political context/culture is completely different from the Canadian one. I more or less agree 100% with what Slim has posted. It's weird how you guys complain so much about SJW ruining your country, but are completely okay with the white religious fundies who want to neo-lynch black people with their guns/police and treat LGBT and women like they are less than human.

What I find interesting is that a lot of the black posters here are "anti-SJW". Do you guys think the BLM movement has made life more difficult for you guys? ??? In my opinion, BLM are doing amazing work, especially the stuff they did this primary season and the work they did against the Confederate flag after the South Carolina church shooting, but I'm not black so it would be interesting to hear your guys' perspective.

Anyway, I digress. I don't feel like talking about this topic, the environment here is hostile to "SJWs".

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:bchris02on05/22/16 at 11:14 pm

The early 00's were just as rad as the 90's and I'd definitely love to go back and relive all of 1995-2002. Things were much, much better back then when I was a teenager. Today, you guys have it lame. I cannot stomach the songs that play on the radio whereas in the early 00s I liked a lot of the music and could somewhat tolerate the stuff I didn't like (it still sucked, don't get me wrong and I don't want it back but it's far better than the stuff they churn out today).

The music in the early 2000s was awesome.

The rest of teen/adult culture, not so much, at least in my opinion.

I would probably handle reliving those days as an adult, but wouldn't want to relive them as a teenager. Note that I am talking specifically about the early 2000s, primarily 2001 and 2002. The late '90s were awesome and I would love to relive them.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:bchris02on05/22/16 at 11:15 pm

You won't get anything done if you try to be all things to all people. I'm an "activist" in some spheres (recently I did some environmentalist work, and I volunteered for candidates in the 2014 and 2015 elections here) and if I wasted time on antis instead of rallying like-minded people I would have got nothing done. The whole point of it is to show other people that they are wrong, and some people are naturally not going to like it. But whatever, the American political context/culture is completely different from the Canadian one. I more or less agree 100% with what Slim has posted. It's weird how you guys complain so much about SJW ruining your country, but are completely okay with the white religious fundies who want to neo-lynch black people with their guns/police and treat LGBT and women like they are less than human.

Anyway, I digress. I don't feel like talking about this topic, the environment here is hostile to "SJWs".

In my opinion, anti-SJWs are more offensive than SJWs. Why? Because SJWs are a loud but relatively small faction of the Democratic party. Anti-SJWs are the base of the Republican Party.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/22/16 at 11:22 pm

In my opinion, anti-SJWs are more offensive than SJWs. Why? Because SJWs are a loud but relatively small faction of the Democratic party. Anti-SJWs are the base of the Republican Party.

Feels disingenuous to call them "anti-SJWs" though, when there are more accurate names for them. They are not against SJWs, in many cases they are against social justice period.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/22/16 at 11:49 pm

The music in the early 2000s was awesome.

The rest of teen/adult culture, not so much, at least in my opinion.

I would probably handle reliving those days as an adult, but wouldn't want to relive them as a teenager. Note that I am talking specifically about the early 2000s, primarily 2001 and 2002. The late '90s were awesome and I would love to relive them.

I absolutely love everything about the early 00's. They're just as incredible as the 90's in my mind. I wasn't in High School anymore back then but my sister was and she loves that time just as much as I do (though, her little dabble in Nu Metal is something we both regret...). The music, fashion, movies, TV, it all kicked some major ass.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Slim95on05/23/16 at 12:23 am

I don't know why people hate SJWs. If it bothers you, just ignore it. It may get annoying but at least they're trying to fight for change, even if it's not the way to do it.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/23/16 at 11:34 am

Weird thing to dislike, but I remember really hating a lot of fonts and branding in the latter parts of the early 2000s. When I saw Gameboy Advanced branding or PS2 branding, I wanted my 90s colourful WordArt back LOL

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:XYkidon05/23/16 at 2:22 pm

I don't know why people hate SJWs. If it bothers you, just ignore it. It may get annoying but at least they're trying to fight for change, even if it's not the way to do it. Because a good majority of them aren't actually fighting for change, they just want to be recognised for "changing the world" by being offended on someone else's behalf. Most SJWs love to lecture people about "privilege" yet a good majority of them come from what their own rhetoric would describe just as that, i.e. white, middle or upper class, cisgender, heterosexual, etc.. As a gay male, I don't like the fact that many of these people are using my sexuality, as well as others, as a political weapon. This has been a main contributor in the rise of homophobic and transphobic attacks. I know SJWs really want social justice, but remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It's weird how you guys complain so much about SJW ruining your country, but are completely okay with the white religious fundies who want to neo-lynch black people with their guns/police and treat LGBT and women like they are less than human.

What I find interesting is that a lot of the black posters here are "anti-SJW". Do you guys think the BLM movement has made life more difficult for you guys? ??? In my opinion, BLM are doing amazing work, especially the stuff they did this primary season and the work they did against the Confederate flag after the South Carolina church shooting, but I'm not black so it would be interesting to hear your guys' perspective.

Anyway, I digress. I don't feel like talking about this topic, the environment here is hostile to "SJWs". No one said they were ok with "white religious fundies".BLM are a joke, and do stupid things like interrupt Bernie Sanders to speak, which is disrespectful even if he does agree with them, but they paid to be spectators, not participants. There are plenty of YouTube videos showing BLM protestors saying that white people need to die.And finally, do you really think taking down the confederate flag is going to "end racism". If the confederate flag is "racist", then why did I know black people in Texas who owned them, and were part of Southern Independence movements?

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Howardon05/23/16 at 2:35 pm

Not every anti-SJW is a Trump supporter though. ;D

I would like to be a Trump supporter but I'm afraid he'll start building things with his name next to it. ::)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Slim95on05/23/16 at 3:00 pm

Because a good majority of them aren't actually fighting for change, they just want to be recognised for "changing the world" by being offended on someone else's behalf. Most SJWs love to lecture people about "privilege" yet a good majority of them come from what their own rhetoric would describe just as that, i.e. white, middle or upper class, cisgender, heterosexual, etc.. As a gay male, I don't like the fact that many of these people are using my sexuality, as well as others, as a political weapon. This has been a main contributor in the rise of homophobic and transphobic attacks. I know SJWs really want social justice, but remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It depends on what is being said and who is saying it. Some SJWs are simply passionate for change and that is okay. Other SJWs like this are of course in the wrong.https://i.imgflip.com/s9ifq.jpg

Either way I don't pay much attention to it and I don't let it bother me. I just focus on myself and that's it.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mxcrashxmon05/23/16 at 6:04 pm

You won't get anything done if you try to be all things to all people. I'm an "activist" in some spheres (recently I did some environmentalist work, and I volunteered for candidates in the 2014 and 2015 elections here) and if I wasted time on antis instead of rallying like-minded people I would have got nothing done. The whole point of it is to show other people that they are wrong, and some people are naturally not going to like it. But whatever, the American political context/culture is completely different from the Canadian one. I more or less agree 100% with what Slim has posted. It's weird how you guys complain so much about SJW ruining your country, but are completely okay with the white religious fundies who want to neo-lynch black people with their guns/police and treat LGBT and women like they are less than human.

What I find interesting is that a lot of the black posters here are "anti-SJW". Do you guys think the BLM movement has made life more difficult for you guys? ??? In my opinion, BLM are doing amazing work, especially the stuff they did this primary season and the work they did against the Confederate flag after the South Carolina church shooting, but I'm not black so it would be interesting to hear your guys' perspective.

Anyway, I digress. I don't feel like talking about this topic, the environment here is hostile to "SJWs".

I don't know why people hate SJWs. If it bothers you, just ignore it. It may get annoying but at least they're trying to fight for change, even if it's not the way to do it.

That's because SJWs are not real activists. All they do is complain and don't go out and do something for a change. I agree with what XYkid said and to add more on that, they're ruining more of the country than they are making it better. I rather be like MLK and be a great leader than be one of those "If you don't agree with me, f*uk you!" fake activists.

I'm definitely not alright with those things. Those people are what's making the country turn backwards. How can we all have peace and harmony if those people can't accept others for who they are? That's what those who are not white, middle or upper class, cisgender, and/or heterosexual have had to deal with for a long time.

As for the BLM movement, I'm not sure. I like how they are raising awareness regarding police brutality against my folks, but they are doing it in a bad way. What activists go around and tell white folks to die and hate them? What advocates interrupt important campaigns? Now remember, not everyone in BLM does those things, but unfortunately, the ones who do it are giving them a bad name :(

It depends on what is being said and who is saying it. Some SJWs are simply passionate for change and that is okay. Other SJWs like this are of course in the wrong.https://i.imgflip.com/s9ifq.jpg

Either way I don't pay much attention to it and I don't let it bother me. I just focus on myself and that's it.That image is the type of SJWs I dislike completely. They act like they are advocates and making a change, but in reality, they're not doing that at all.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:mqg96on05/23/16 at 6:54 pm

That's because SJWs are not real activists. All they do is complain and don't go out and do something for a change. I agree with what XYkid said and to add more on that, they're ruining more of the country than they are making it better. I rather be like MLK and be a great leader than be one of those "If you don't agree with me, f*uk you!" fake activists.

I'm definitely not alright with those things. Those people are what's making the country turn backwards. How can we all have peace and harmony if those people can't accept others for who they are? That's what those who are not white, middle or upper class, cisgender, and/or heterosexual have had to deal with for a long time.

As for the BLM movement, I'm not sure. I like how they are raising awareness regarding police brutality against my folks, but they are doing it in a bad way. What activists go around and tell white folks to die and hate them? What advocates interrupt important campaigns? Now remember, not everyone in BLM does those things, but unfortunately, the ones who do it are giving them a bad name :(

ALL of this. Someone should have made this post about the SJW culture long time ago.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/23/16 at 7:00 pm

You won't get anything done if you try to be all things to all people. I'm an "activist" in some spheres (recently I did some environmentalist work, and I volunteered for candidates in the 2014 and 2015 elections here) and if I wasted time on antis instead of rallying like-minded people I would have got nothing done. The whole point of it is to show other people that they are wrong, and some people are naturally not going to like it. But whatever, the American political context/culture is completely different from the Canadian one. I more or less agree 100% with what Slim has posted. It's weird how you guys complain so much about SJW ruining your country, but are completely okay with the white religious fundies who want to neo-lynch black people with their guns/police and treat LGBT and women like they are less than human.

What I find interesting is that a lot of the black posters here are "anti-SJW". Do you guys think the BLM movement has made life more difficult for you guys? ??? In my opinion, BLM are doing amazing work, especially the stuff they did this primary season and the work they did against the Confederate flag after the South Carolina church shooting, but I'm not black so it would be interesting to hear your guys' perspective.

Anyway, I digress. I don't feel like talking about this topic, the environment here is hostile to "SJWs".

As much as I hate SJWs, I also despise white supremacists even more. For the fact that they've been plaguing the United States political system since the Civil War ended, it never stops for any Americans. No matter what president tried, white supremacy would cast its shadow towards them and make it a topic for some people like me. At least SJWs would pray that Trump's presidency would never happen, but I think they're the main reason why white supremacists believe in "white genocide", for the fact that most of them hate white males.

I'm half-black. I never really thought the Black Lives Matter movement improved social equality from African-Americans, because it fueled the Republicans on hating liberals even more. Especially when my grandfather (my dad's father) was an NYPD officer, and he was black. I don't know what his reaction would be if he was still alive, since he was a cop. Even with banning the Confederate flags on American soil wasn't that good for a lot of people in the South. Considering they had opposing views towards the South Carolina shootings, especially with Confederate lovers, they only cared about their flag being torn down from the "good ol' South". So, it didn't help a lot of us.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon05/23/16 at 8:12 pm

Because a good majority of them aren't actually fighting for change, they just want to be recognised for "changing the world" by being offended on someone else's behalf. Most SJWs love to lecture people about "privilege" yet a good majority of them come from what their own rhetoric would describe just as that, i.e. white, middle or upper class, cisgender, heterosexual, etc.. As a gay male, I don't like the fact that many of these people are using my sexuality, as well as others, as a political weapon. This has been a main contributor in the rise of homophobic and transphobic attacks. I know SJWs really want social justice, but remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Yes, yes, YES! All of this yes! Most SJW's really do come off as selfish, spoiled brats when they're complaining about injustice yet come from relatively privileged backgrounds and have a boyfriend or girlfriend to spend so many precious, wonderful moments together. For almost a decade now, I have dreamt of going on a romantic date with a beautiful, elegant woman around La Jolla but never gotten the chance, even though it's something a solid majority of San Diegans my age can do if they want. The sheer number of delighted adolescent couples I see whenever I go running around La Jolla proves my point.

No one said they were ok with "white religious fundies".

Yeah, the intolerant bible thumpers are worse, even though SJW's lead them to become even more vicious.

BLM are a joke, and do stupid things like interrupt Bernie Sanders to speak, which is disrespectful even if he does agree with them, but they paid to be spectators, not participants. There are plenty of YouTube videos showing BLM protestors saying that white people need to die.And finally, do you really think taking down the confederate flag is going to "end racism". If the confederate flag is "racist", then why did I know black people in Texas who owned them, and were part of Southern Independence movements?

Yet on the other side of the coin, I know a lot of liberals who absolutely despise Hillary Clinton and would threaten to move out of America if she won the Democratic nomination instead of Bernie Sanders. It really goes to show you how splintered America's supposedly progressive base is, even though the Republicans are certainly no less deeply split.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/24/16 at 9:46 am

Weird thing to dislike, but I remember really hating a lot of fonts and branding in the latter parts of the early 2000s. When I saw Gameboy Advanced branding or PS2 branding, I wanted my 90s colourful WordArt back LOL

It seemed kinda cool at the time. I absolutely loved them as a kid, since it made it look awe inspiring to me.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/25/16 at 10:46 am

Because a good majority of them aren't actually fighting for change, they just want to be recognised for "changing the world" by being offended on someone else's behalf. Most SJWs love to lecture people about "privilege" yet a good majority of them come from what their own rhetoric would describe just as that, i.e. white, middle or upper class, cisgender, heterosexual, etc.. As a gay male, I don't like the fact that many of these people are using my sexuality, as well as others, as a political weapon. This has been a main contributor in the rise of homophobic and transphobic attacks. I know SJWs really want social justice, but remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. No one said they were ok with "white religious fundies".BLM are a joke, and do stupid things like interrupt Bernie Sanders to speak, which is disrespectful even if he does agree with them, but they paid to be spectators, not participants. There are plenty of YouTube videos showing BLM protestors saying that white people need to die.And finally, do you really think taking down the confederate flag is going to "end racism". If the confederate flag is "racist", then why did I know black people in Texas who owned them, and were part of Southern Independence movements?

I did a Twitter search for "SJW" and what you wrong about most "SJWs" being white, straight, cisgendered males is demonstrably false.

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=SJW&src=typd

Most "anti-SJWs" are white, straight males, racists, misogynist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and every ism under the sun, with their comments @replied to mostly women and minority groups. Where is your proof that most SJWs are "white, middle or upper class, cisgender, heterosexual, etc."?

Are we really going to blame SJWs for "provoking" attacks on LGBT minorities? People attack LGBT minorities because they hate LGBT minorities, period. There is no other reason to be attacking someone. If these people didn't hate LGBT, they wouldn't attack anyone in the first place. While we're at it, do you actually have any proof that hate crimes against LGBT are on the rise in the 2010s compared to previous decades?

BLM did the right thing, in my opinion. Bernie's answer on how racism will be solved after the class issue is solved was a complete cop-out of an answer and lacked any nuance. If he's going to be the leader of the Democratic Party, he has to appeal to minorities, it's as simple as that. Also, political rallies are meant to be disrupted, ever heard of a counter-protest? It's completely normal. Saying that "blacks should be quiet and wait their turn" reminds me of an important MLK quote, and it's so true for what you are arguing right now.

First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season.

The whole "there are YouTube videos of BLM protestors saying mean things" is a complete red herring and blatant whataboutism. That's not the message of BLM.

The Confederate Flag is a racist symbol, and anyone who dons it is a racist. Removing it wouldn't end racism, but no one should be seeing Confederate Flags on government buildings for the same reason German government buildings shouldn't be the flying the Nazi Flag. It creates an atmosphere of fear and intimidation among non-whites. I'm sure there are blacks who are Confederates, just as I'm sure there are Jews who are Nazis. Token minorities don't legitimize any racist movement.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/25/16 at 3:24 pm

I did a Twitter search for "SJW" and what you wrong about most "SJWs" being white, straight, cisgendered males is demonstrably false.

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=SJW&src=typd

This is the only part where I agree with you. I could say that most SJWs are against prejudice on people who aren't white. However, that point contradicts itself, since most SJWs hate straight white males for some reason. I'm not sure why, but it has to deal with their hypocrisy. Which is why most people despise SJWs.

Most "anti-SJWs" are white, straight males, racists, misogynist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and every ism under the sun, with their comments @replied to mostly women and minority groups. Where is your proof that most SJWs are "white, middle or upper class, cisgender, heterosexual, etc."?

I'm an anti-SJW, and I'm not a racist, misogynist, homophobic, nor an anti-Semitic. Hell, I know people who despise SJWs, and they aren't white supremacists. I'm mixed-race for crying out loud. Would I really say anything against ACTUAL social justice, if those politicians (e.g. Martin Luther King Jr) made my parents' marriage legalized across the country? I could thank them that they wouldn't be in jail, just because they were a racially mixed married couple, since interracial marriage is legal in the entire U.S.

Are we really going to blame SJWs for "provoking" attacks on LGBT minorities? People attack LGBT minorities because they hate LGBT minorities, period. There is no other reason to be attacking someone. If these people didn't hate LGBT, they wouldn't attack anyone in the first place. While we're at it, do you actually have any proof that hate crimes against LGBT are on the rise in the 2010s compared to previous decades?

Well, not really. I found less hate crimes on the LGBT community in the 2010s than other decades. However, it's still noticeable because of the 2015 Supreme Court ruling that LGBT marriage was legal in all 50 states. This somehow brought in a rage for religious conservatives, who despised the community so much. What's probably even worse is that transgender people are now getting the blame for the transgender bathroom rulings recently.

BLM did the right thing, in my opinion. Bernie's answer on how racism will be solved after the class issue is solved was a complete cop-out of an answer and lacked any nuance. If he's going to be the leader of the Democratic Party, he has to appeal to minorities, it's as simple as that. Also, political rallies are meant to be disrupted, ever heard of a counter-protest? It's completely normal. Saying that "blacks should be quiet and wait their turn" reminds me of an important MLK quote, and it's so true for what you are arguing right now.

Oh really? I wonder if BLM saved anybody's lives? For one thing, it spread hate against white people, along with "ending the white patriarchy". And I'm not making this up. There's a bunch of tweets about it.

The whole "there are YouTube videos of BLM protestors saying mean things" is a complete red herring and blatant whataboutism. That's not the message of BLM.

_miO7cFMsus

This is a protest on one of Trump's rallies, and some of those protestors agree with BLM. You know what they were doing? Restricting freedom of speech. I hate Trump with a passion when it comes to politics, but when somebody thinks it's a good idea to disrupt a rally for all of his supporters in Chicago, then they're terrible people IMO. My family supporter Bernie Sanders, and they didn't go and disrupt a Trump rally in New York City. Why? Because they didn't care. Especially when my mom knows some Trump supporters, and she doesn't even get into politics with them. Same with the f*cking protest. They shouldn't go and cause a riot in Chicago, just because they hate one specific candidate that said all of these offensive things.

The Confederate Flag is a racist symbol, and anyone who dons it is a racist. Removing it wouldn't end racism, but no one should be seeing Confederate Flags on government buildings for the same reason German government buildings shouldn't be the flying the Nazi Flag. It creates an atmosphere of fear and intimidation among non-whites. I'm sure there are blacks who are Confederates, just as I'm sure there are Jews who are Nazis. Token minorities don't legitimize any racist movement.

I don't think there's no way in hell that you could get rid of the Confederate flag in the Southern U.S. I'm not going to say that the Confederate flag is evil, just because it represented a colony that endorses several racist politicians, along with promoting slavery and hate against Africans. I wouldn't go down to Stormfront (or any other white supremacist site in that matter) and say that the Confederate flag is racist, because those people are already f*cking racist. Same with people who aren't racist in the South. They like using the Confederate flag? That's okay. But it's not like non-whites are forced to see the Confederate flag for all eternity, since it's none of their business.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon05/26/16 at 12:59 am

Are we really going to blame SJWs for "provoking" attacks on LGBT minorities? People attack LGBT minorities because they hate LGBT minorities, period. There is no other reason to be attacking someone. If these people didn't hate LGBT, they wouldn't attack anyone in the first place. While we're at it, do you actually have any proof that hate crimes against LGBT are on the rise in the 2010s compared to previous decades?

BLM did the right thing, in my opinion. Bernie's answer on how racism will be solved after the class issue is solved was a complete cop-out of an answer and lacked any nuance. If he's going to be the leader of the Democratic Party, he has to appeal to minorities, it's as simple as that. Also, political rallies are meant to be disrupted, ever heard of a counter-protest? It's completely normal. Saying that "blacks should be quiet and wait their turn" reminds me of an important MLK quote, and it's so true for what you are arguing right now.

The whole "there are YouTube videos of BLM protestors saying mean things" is a complete red herring and blatant whataboutism. That's not the message of BLM.

I feel a bit torn over the black civil rights issue, in the same way I'm wary about the LGBT rights movement. On one hand, yes, African Americans in the United States are completely marginalized, usually to a degree that is not highlighted enough in mass media. System racism is still a huge problem in so many parts of society, even if a lot of people are accepting and embracing. At the very least, I can say that BLM has brought back critical attention to the problem of racism and violence against African Americans for the first real time since the 1960s. Without some widespread attention, it would not be possible to completely overtake a deeply ingrained, rigid system of inequality that comprises of several layers.

However, I also believe that for a civil rights movement to truly work, it has to be methodical. The civil rights movements of the late 40s through the 1960s were conducted through several different means, not just protests but also community gatherings, employment maneuvers, black media, and many other outlets. More importantly, activists in the black community were able to convince establishment Democrats like Harry Truman and eventually John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson to pass sweeping reforms, which not only granted them several important legislative victories and formally ended Jim Crow, but also stimulated a national debate about racism, which had been largely ignored by the establishment since the end of Reconstruction.

The Black Lives Matter movement, on the other hand, is more or less a direct assault against the establishment that relies more on numbers than substance. Though it does operate through several different venues, most notably through social media, it doesn't convey its ideas terribly effectively and is marred by splits within the African American community over how to represent the black freedom struggle. The thing about the Martin Luther King Jr. quote is that while he definitely advocates for continuous reform and doesn't just accept a status quo of injustice, he isn't explicitly condemning the United States itself, but rather the racism that stains it. He peacefully demanded that all Americans, no matter the color of their skin, are able to share in the freedom that the country is supposed to be known for.

This is all not to say that the 60s were not an extremely violent and confrontational period for civil rights, especially with the Black Panther movement, which rejected many of the ideas of traditional black civil rights organizations and demanded the preservation of black culture as part of America's national identity, but there were still a lot of significant victories made during the post-War era. In fact, the black civil rights movement became less successful and more haphazard mostly around the late 60s, by which point the divisions within the African American community were more pronounced than ever and considerable backlash was developing against the progressive reforms of the decade in general. I think the overall point, however, is that civil rights movements are most fruitful when they are methodical, tactical, and willing to use every resource available, whereas those that operate predominantly by their own code are a lot more likely to stir backlash or fracture from within.

On a side note, while the ideas of MLK resonate with me personally a lot more than Malcolm X, in the same way integration sounds better to me as a lesbian instead of the industrialization of lesbian cultural traits, I can definitely understand a lot of where the Black Panthers were coming from, because race-associated culture is a major part of how that particular race stands within a multicultural society, and most traditional American culture has been associated with middle-upper class whites. In the same way, I can understand where the Black Lives Matter movement comes from, but it seems to have a lot of the same shortcomings that ultimately led to the downfall of the Black Panthers, particularly its restrictive definition of what it means to be black and what blacks should be fighting for, which, though universal in some ways, varies from person to person in others.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/26/16 at 1:13 am

This is the only part where I agree with you. I could say that most SJWs are against prejudice on people who aren't white. However, that point contradicts itself, since most SJWs hate straight white males for some reason. I'm not sure why, but it has to deal with their hypocrisy. Which is why most people despise SJWs.

You read my post wrong. Seeing as no one self-identifies as "SJW", the term is obviously defined by the people who use it against others. If you click on the Twitter link I sent, you would see most people denounced for "SJWs" are not white or male. They are minorities and often women. This whole argument that most SJWs are white males is a complete myth.

Also, no one "hates" white straight men. Pointing out that straight, white, men are the main instigators of the oppression minorities face (e.g. most Trump supporters are straight white males, he does terribly among every other demographic) doesn't mean you hate them.

I'm an anti-SJW, and I'm not a racist, misogynist, homophobic, nor an anti-Semitic. Hell, I know people who despise SJWs, and they aren't white supremacists. I'm mixed-race for crying out loud. Would I really say anything against ACTUAL social justice, if those politicians (e.g. Martin Luther King Jr) made my parents' marriage legalized across the country? I could thank them that they wouldn't be in jail, just because they were a racially mixed married couple, since interracial marriage is legal in the entire U.S.

That's why I said most. If you click the Twitter search link I gave you, you will see that most "anti-SJWs" are white male racists and misogynists. Not exactly a group I'd proud to be a part of.

Well, not really. I found less hate crimes on the LGBT community in the 2010s than other decades. However, it's still noticeable because of the 2015 Supreme Court ruling that LGBT marriage was legal in all 50 states. This somehow brought in a rage for religious conservatives, who despised the community so much. What's probably even worse is that transgender people are now getting the blame for the transgender bathroom rulings recently.

I don't see how the North Carolina bathroom bill and the discrimination acts are related to SJWs at all. Republicans hate LGBT by default. In a magical world of no SJWs, Republicans wouldn't all of a sudden be huge LGBT supporters, that's a fantasy. The trans boogeyman was inevitable after the gay marriage fight was settled. Republicans need to energize their base and spreading FUD about minorities is more or less the party's modus operandi.

Oh really? I wonder if BLM saved anybody's lives? For one thing, it spread hate against white people, along with "ending the white patriarchy". And I'm not making this up. There's a bunch of tweets about it.

Again, this has not come from anyone of leadership position. These are just some random people who are part of BLM protest. It is not the main message. There are hundreds of thousands of BLM supporters, each with their own views on how things are done. If you wanted to find someone saying something crazy it wouldn't take along, it's still a shameless red herring.

Also, I still have no idea what is going on in those tweets.

This is a protest on one of Trump's rallies, and some of those protestors agree with BLM. You know what they were doing? Restricting freedom of speech. I hate Trump with a passion when it comes to politics, but when somebody thinks it's a good idea to disrupt a rally for all of his supporters in Chicago, then they're terrible people IMO. My family supporter Bernie Sanders, and they didn't go and disrupt a Trump rally in New York City. Why? Because they didn't care. Especially when my mom knows some Trump supporters, and she doesn't even get into politics with them. Same with the f*cking protest. They shouldn't go and cause a riot in Chicago, just because they hate one specific candidate that said all of these offensive things.

I have huge respect for those who managed to shut down the Trump rally. That was my favourite part of the primary season. Freedom of speech is a right that's held up by the government. Me, and the Chicago protestors, as non-government entities, have no obligation to have to hear you speak or give you a platform to speak, and are also free to sanction you for what you say. A lot of conservatives have this warped understanding of freedom of speech that equivocates it to freedom of consequence (for what you say) and freedom from criticism. No, that's not what free speech is. Want to know what free speech is? It is being able to protest a Trump or Bernie rally, that's freedom of speech.

Also, it was not a riot, it was largely a peaceful protest.

I don't think there's no way in hell that you could get rid of the Confederate flag in the Southern U.S. I'm not going to say that the Confederate flag is evil, just because it represented a colony that endorses several racist politicians, along with promoting slavery and hate against Africans. I wouldn't go down to Stormfront (or any other white supremacist site in that matter) and say that the Confederate flag is racist, because those people are already f*cking racist. Same with people who aren't racist in the South. They like using the Confederate flag? That's okay. But it's not like non-whites are forced to see the Confederate flag for all eternity, since it's none of their business.

And why would you say the Confederate flag isn't evil? You listed reasons why it is evil, but failed to explain why it is not. People should be free to do whatever they want with Confederate flags (not that I'd ever want to talk to those people), my problem is with government buildings and institutions that carry a symbol of racism. South Carolina were flying the Confederate flag, a symbol of hate and bigotry, right in front of their state legislature. We don't need the government promoting racism and creating an atmosphere of fear and intimidation among non-whites. It's unacceptable and all Confederate symbols need to be removed from public buildings, functions and institutions immediately IMO.

I feel a bit torn over the black civil rights issue, in the same way I'm wary about the LGBT rights movement. On one hand, yes, African Americans in the United States are completely marginalized, usually to a degree that is not highlighted enough in mass media. System racism is still a huge problem in so many parts of society, even if a lot of people are accepting and embracing. At the very least, I can say that BLM has brought back critical attention to the problem of racism and violence against African Americans for the first real time since the 1960s. Without some widespread attention, it would not be possible to completely overtake a deeply ingrained, rigid system of inequality that comprises of several layers.

However, I also believe that for a civil rights movement to truly work, it has to be methodical. The civil rights movements of the late 40s through the 1960s were conducted through several different means, not just protests but also community gatherings, employment maneuvers, black media, and many other outlets. More importantly, activists in the black community were able to convince establishment Democrats like Harry Truman and eventually John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson to pass sweeping reforms, which not only granted them several important legislative victories and formally ended Jim Crow, but also stimulated a national debate about racism, which had been largely ignored by the establishment since the end of Reconstruction.

The Black Lives Matter movement, on the other hand, is more or less a direct assault against the establishment that relies more on numbers than substance. Though it does operate through several different venues, most notably through social media, it doesn't convey its ideas terribly effectively and is marred by splits within the African American community over how to represent the black freedom struggle. The thing about the Martin Luther King Jr. quote is that while he definitely advocates for continuous reform and doesn't just accept a status quo of injustice, he isn't explicitly condemning the United States itself, but rather the racism that stains it. He peacefully demanded that all Americans, no matter the color of their skin, are able to share in the freedom that the country is supposed to be known for.

This is all not to say that the 60s were not an extremely violent and confrontational period for civil rights, especially with the Black Panther movement, which rejected many of the ideas of traditional black civil rights organizations and demanded the preservation of black culture as part of America's national identity, but there were still a lot of significant victories made during the post-War era. In fact, the black civil rights movement became less successful and more haphazard mostly around the late 60s, by which point the divisions within the African American community were more pronounced than ever and considerable backlash was developing against the progressive reforms of the decade in general. I think the overall point, however, is that civil rights movements are most fruitful when they are methodical, tactical, and willing to use every resource available, whereas those that operate predominantly by their own code are a lot more likely to stir backlash or fracture from within.

On a side note, while the ideas of MLK resonate with me personally a lot more than Malcolm X, in the same way integration sounds better to me as a lesbian instead of the industrialization of lesbian cultural traits, I can definitely understand a lot of where the Black Panthers were coming from, because race-associated culture is a major part of how that particular race stands within a multicultural society, and most traditional American culture has been associated with middle-upper class whites. In the same way, I can understand where the Black Lives Matter movement comes from, but it seems to have a lot of the same shortcomings that ultimately led to the downfall of the Black Panthers, particularly its restrictive definition of what it means to be black and what blacks should be fighting for, which, though universal in some ways, varies from person to person in others.

I have to go to sleep now, so I'll try to get back to you tomorrow (or after tomorrow, since tomorrow seems to be a long day at work :()

Good night :)

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon05/26/16 at 1:33 am

You read my post wrong. Seeing as no one self-identifies as "SJW", the term is obviously defined by the people who use it against others. If you click on the Twitter link I sent, you would see most people denounced for "SJWs" are not white or male. They are minorities and often women. This whole argument that most SJWs are white males is a complete myth.

That is true. However, most of them do seem to come from rather privileged backgrounds, unlike the minorities they're misguidedly attempting to help.

Also, no one "hates" white straight men. Pointing out that straight, white, men are the main instigators of the oppression minorities face (e.g. most Trump supporters are straight white males, he does terribly among every other demographic) doesn't mean you hate them.

There's definitely a stereotype that people of privilege are ignorant because they don't know what it's like to truly struggle from being different. Even if they make insensitive remarks, though, I personally think non-minorities should be given the benefit of the doubt unless they're shameless about their bigotry (in the same way I wish those outright bigots would actually listen to every voice coming from an activist movement rather than categorizing even the most peaceful and open-minded ones as enemies).

That's why I said most. If you click the Twitter search link I gave you, you will see that most "anti-SJWs" are white male racists and misogynists. Not exactly a group I'd proud to be a part of.

People should at least be allowed to identify somewhere in the middle. Both the far right, as well as the SJW's seem to reject compromise and centrism. I think that's more the point NewYorkEagle is trying to make, and I agree with him.

I don't see how the North Carolina bathroom bill and the discrimination acts are related to SJWs at all. Republicans hate LGBT by default. In a magical world of no SJWs, Republicans wouldn't all of a sudden be huge LGBT supporters, that's a fantasy. The trans boogeyman was inevitable after the gay marriage fight was settled. Republicans need to energize their base and spreading FUD about minorities is more or less the party's modus operandi.

The bathroom bill is hate legislation directed against a minority group specifically brought to mainstream attention thanks to the efforts of SJW's. I think most people would agree that at the very least, the transgender movement is highly associated with current leftist activist culture.

Again, this has not come from anyone of leadership position. These are just some random people who are part of BLM protest. It is not the main message. There are hundreds of thousands of BLM supporters, each with their own views on how things are done. If you wanted to find someone saying something crazy it wouldn't take along, it's still a shameless red herring.

Also, I still have no idea what is going on in those tweets.

These incidents do, however, highlight the issue of BLM's extreme rigidness. Believe it or not, a lot of African Americans are actually displeased with the BLM agenda, especially with regards to representation of sub-minorities. The movement is essentially defining a very specific image of what it's like to experience the struggles facing African Americans, when that narrative might not be fully accurate depending on what your personal background is besides just your race.

I have huge respect for those who managed to shut down the Trump rally. That was my favourite part of the primary season. Freedom of speech is a right that's held up by the government. Me, and the Chicago protestors, as non-government entities, have no obligation to have to hear you speak or give you a platform to speak, and are also free to sanction you for what you say. A lot of conservatives have this warped understanding of freedom of speech that equivocates it to freedom of consequence (for what you say) and freedom from criticism. No, that's not what free speech is. Want to know what free speech is? It is being able to protest a Trump or Bernie rally, that's freedom of speech.

Hate Donald Trump as much as you want, but sabotaging his political gatherings certainly isn't in the spirit of unity and is likely to just exacerbate the backlash that fuels his followers rather than extinguish it. I do understand that most African Americans feel they shouldn't have to respect Trump in the first place due to how appallingly ignorant he is, but if any peaceful coordination between the activists and those they are trying to change, lead figures on both sides should muster the courage to speak to each other diplomatically. Otherwise, what you're left with is a continual state of war, verbal or not.

And why would you say the Confederate flag isn't evil? You listed reasons why it is evil, but failed to explain why it is not. People should be free to do whatever they want with Confederate flags (not that I'd ever want to talk to those people), my problem is with government buildings and institutions that carry a symbol of racism. South Carolina were flying the Confederate flag, a symbol of hate and bigotry, right in front of their state legislature. We don't need the government promoting racism and creating an atmosphere of fear and intimidation among non-whites. It's unacceptable and all Confederate symbols need to be removed from public buildings, functions and institutions immediately IMO.

I agree with you about the Confederate flag, even though a lot of Southerners are raised to believe it simply stands for southern pride, oblivious to its dark past. It's similar to how you still see a fair amount of Iron Crosses on merchandise, even though the Iron Cross also has an associative history with racism.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/26/16 at 6:30 am

And why would you say the Confederate flag isn't evil? You listed reasons why it is evil, but failed to explain why it is not. People should be free to do whatever they want with Confederate flags (not that I'd ever want to talk to those people), my problem is with government buildings and institutions that carry a symbol of racism. South Carolina were flying the Confederate flag, a symbol of hate and bigotry, right in front of their state legislature. We don't need the government promoting racism and creating an atmosphere of fear and intimidation among non-whites. It's unacceptable and all Confederate symbols need to be removed from public buildings, functions and institutions immediately IMO.

The Confederate flag is evil in a lot of ways. It shows pride to Southern politicians who believed that African Americans (and other non-white ethnicities) were inferior to the white people. Especially when a lot of white supremacist groups adopt the flag as their flag of honor. With state institutions that had previously had the Confederate flag, it's kinda like the problem. Then again, most of them who defend the flag are poorly educated. They probably learned that the Confederate flag is a great symbol of the South in school. So, it's a problem to the people who were okay with the flag, because they don't agree with a lot of progressive views.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/26/16 at 8:28 am

You guys are extra political today.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:XYkidon05/26/16 at 10:31 am

The Confederate flag is evil in a lot of ways. It shows pride to Southern politicians who believed that African Americans (and other non-white ethnicities) were inferior to the white people. Especially when a lot of white supremacist groups adopt the flag as their flag of honor. With state institutions that had previously had the Confederate flag, it's kinda like the problem. Then again, most of them who defend the flag are poorly educated. They probably learned that the Confederate flag is a great symbol of the South in school. So, it's a problem to the people who were okay with the flag, because they don't agree with a lot of progressive views. then why did I know black people when I lived in Texas who owned Confederate flags? These same people were also supporters of southern independence.The Civil War was not about slavery until the end of it, and when the confederacy formed, Virginia got rid of slavery and encouraged other states to do so in order to industrialise the south.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/26/16 at 1:36 pm

then why did I know black people when I lived in Texas who owned Confederate flags? These same people were also supporters of southern independence.

Maybe it's because they're proud of being in the South, I guess. My dad's family is black, but it's not like they support the Confederates, just because they lived in Virginia.

The Civil War was not about slavery until the end of it, and when the confederacy formed, Virginia got rid of slavery and encouraged other states to do so in order to industrialise the south.

Then how come Virginia and other states in the South seceded from the main US? How come when they formed the Confederate States, they despised the North for not supporting slavery? Besides, the South was mostly rural before the mid 20th century, since their land was still used for sharecropping and that everybody didn't get along before the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

I feel a bit torn over the black civil rights issue, in the same way I'm wary about the LGBT rights movement. On one hand, yes, African Americans in the United States are completely marginalized, usually to a degree that is not highlighted enough in mass media. System racism is still a huge problem in so many parts of society, even if a lot of people are accepting and embracing. At the very least, I can say that BLM has brought back critical attention to the problem of racism and violence against African Americans for the first real time since the 1960s. Without some widespread attention, it would not be possible to completely overtake a deeply ingrained, rigid system of inequality that comprises of several layers.

However, I also believe that for a civil rights movement to truly work, it has to be methodical. The civil rights movements of the late 40s through the 1960s were conducted through several different means, not just protests but also community gatherings, employment maneuvers, black media, and many other outlets. More importantly, activists in the black community were able to convince establishment Democrats like Harry Truman and eventually John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson to pass sweeping reforms, which not only granted them several important legislative victories and formally ended Jim Crow, but also stimulated a national debate about racism, which had been largely ignored by the establishment since the end of Reconstruction.

The Black Lives Matter movement, on the other hand, is more or less a direct assault against the establishment that relies more on numbers than substance. Though it does operate through several different venues, most notably through social media, it doesn't convey its ideas terribly effectively and is marred by splits within the African American community over how to represent the black freedom struggle. The thing about the Martin Luther King Jr. quote is that while he definitely advocates for continuous reform and doesn't just accept a status quo of injustice, he isn't explicitly condemning the United States itself, but rather the racism that stains it. He peacefully demanded that all Americans, no matter the color of their skin, are able to share in the freedom that the country is supposed to be known for.

This is all not to say that the 60s were not an extremely violent and confrontational period for civil rights, especially with the Black Panther movement, which rejected many of the ideas of traditional black civil rights organizations and demanded the preservation of black culture as part of America's national identity, but there were still a lot of significant victories made during the post-War era. In fact, the black civil rights movement became less successful and more haphazard mostly around the late 60s, by which point the divisions within the African American community were more pronounced than ever and considerable backlash was developing against the progressive reforms of the decade in general. I think the overall point, however, is that civil rights movements are most fruitful when they are methodical, tactical, and willing to use every resource available, whereas those that operate predominantly by their own code are a lot more likely to stir backlash or fracture from within.

On a side note, while the ideas of MLK resonate with me personally a lot more than Malcolm X, in the same way integration sounds better to me as a lesbian instead of the industrialization of lesbian cultural traits, I can definitely understand a lot of where the Black Panthers were coming from, because race-associated culture is a major part of how that particular race stands within a multicultural society, and most traditional American culture has been associated with middle-upper class whites. In the same way, I can understand where the Black Lives Matter movement comes from, but it seems to have a lot of the same shortcomings that ultimately led to the downfall of the Black Panthers, particularly its restrictive definition of what it means to be black and what blacks should be fighting for, which, though universal in some ways, varies from person to person in others.

I actually read an interesting article this morning about the increase in complaints to the Ontario Human Rights tribunal over trans discrimination. It's in French but Google Translate does a decent job --

In short, there was an increase in complaints to the Board in recent years, but this was actually as a result of the explicit criminalization of discrimination based on gender identity/expression in 2012, which made people more likely to report discrimination based on gender identity/expression. As the articles you linked mention themsleves, the reason the hate crimes may be up is because people are actually reporting them now, because they know they'll have government support, unlike in the 80s, or even a bit of the 90s/00s where violence against LGBT people was accepted as a fact of life.

You have a much more detailed and nuanced view on BLM than me. I'm not black myself, so I don't really see it from a methods or inclusivity perspective, rather I look at the battles they choose and if they're effective at winning them, since that is ultimately what they are for. They've not been around for a very long time, so it's hard to judge their impact or what their impact will be. Their formation has come so close to the 2016 election and I think most their focus has been there for the most part, and I'd say they've been mildly successful in that regard since we've got rhetoric about the issue that we would not have seen before 2016. Now, nice speeches are one thing and following through with it are another, but I think BLM are forming the political alliances that you've explained why are important. In other news, today is also the day that the Baltimore Police Force will start carrying body cameras, which go a long way in improving police-community relations in that city, I hope. In the short time that BLM has existed, I think they've set up a good ground game.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/27/16 at 11:56 pm

That is true. However, most of them do seem to come from rather privileged backgrounds, unlike the minorities they're misguidedly attempting to help.

Who do you mean? I'm saying that most "anti-SJWs" on Twitter are white males who're rabid conservatives, and most their "anti"-ing is directed at racial minorities, LGBT and women, rather than the supposed "white, middle or upper class, cisgender, heterosexual, etc." SJWs I keep hearing about. It appears that most people accused of being SJWs are actually the opposite of privileged.

There's definitely a stereotype that people of privilege are ignorant because they don't know what it's like to truly struggle from being different. Even if they make insensitive remarks, though, I personally think non-minorities should be given the benefit of the doubt unless they're shameless about their bigotry (in the same way I wish those outright bigots would actually listen to every voice coming from an activist movement rather than categorizing even the most peaceful and open-minded ones as enemies).

Hmm, well that particular view isn't without its basis in reality, but I don't even think if someone thought that, that it means that they hate white people. I can have friends who're wealthier than me and think they've had it easier, and that they don't know what it's like to be poor, but that doesn't mean I hate them. I'm aware that there are people out there who do hate white people, but their numbers are so minuscule and their power so little, I don't think this should keep anyone awake at night.

People should at least be allowed to identify somewhere in the middle. Both the far right, as well as the SJW's seem to reject compromise and centrism. I think that's more the point NewYorkEagle is trying to make, and I agree with him.

I feel like you guys say you're "anti-SJWs" because you've got the wrong image of what an "SJW" is. You guys describe them as self-hating white males who are aggressively social progressive and want everyone to conform to their world view. I've not seen any evidence that this is what "SJWs" actually are. As far as I've seen, it's a loosely thrown around term to describe anyone who is even any bit of left of centre, and it's largely thrown at women and racial minorities. I think even you would be described as an "SJW" by most "anti-SJWs". The term isn't restrictive or specific at all.

The bathroom bill is hate legislation directed against a minority group specifically brought to mainstream attention thanks to the efforts of SJW's. I think most people would agree that at the very least, the transgender movement is highly associated with current leftist activist culture.

I'm not sure that's the reason we're seeing this bathroom bill. Transgenders and bathrooms has always been an active topic, and Republicans are naturally opposed to the idea because "God made everyone in His image, and He doesn't make mistakes", so transgendered people aren't actually real. To me, this would have been a problem sooner or later. Transgendered people using the bathroom of their gender or sexual identity goes directly against your average Republican's world view. I mean, one can see the Republican Party as a reactionary party, but I happen to see it as a party with its own ideology and its own ideas of how society should be run, independent of the existence left-wing thought and activities.

These incidents do, however, highlight the issue of BLM's extreme rigidness. Believe it or not, a lot of African Americans are actually displeased with the BLM agenda, especially with regards to representation of sub-minorities. The movement is essentially defining a very specific image of what it's like to experience the struggles facing African Americans, when that narrative might not be fully accurate depending on what your personal background is besides just your race.

I think you're going to run into that kind of problem when you're such a large umbrella group trying to represent all kinds of people from different walks of life. The important thing is that there is a main message. There will be antis who will inevitably try to focus on what irrelevant person X said about Y and how truly awful that is, but if the organization as a whole and the people in leadership positions are on message and communicate it effectively, then we should recognize that red herring and distraction for what it is.

Hate Donald Trump as much as you want, but sabotaging his political gatherings certainly isn't in the spirit of unity and is likely to just exacerbate the backlash that fuels his followers rather than extinguish it. I do understand that most African Americans feel they shouldn't have to respect Trump in the first place due to how appallingly ignorant he is, but if any peaceful coordination between the activists and those they are trying to change, lead figures on both sides should muster the courage to speak to each other diplomatically. Otherwise, what you're left with is a continual state of war, verbal or not.

I can't blame any minority for not feeling any sense of "unity" with the modern Republican Party. Donald Trump is actively out to get everyone who isn't white, there is no reason to "respect" or coddle his views when he and his supporters don't respect you as a human being. (If Republicans picked someone like Marco we wouldn't be having this conversation). I think that when non-Republicans see how much anger and resentment Donald Trump is causing, while their initial reaction might be to defend Donald Trump as the innocent victim, in the long run they will see that he is the main cause of the discontent, not BLM. Republicans themselves of course will run towards Trump the more you shut him down. That's their choice, they're not really relevant. In a general election, the main tactic would be to get out as many Democrats as you can (mostly minorities), and win enough Independents. Republicans will vote Republican no matter what, their opinion on this matter is, as I said, irrelevant. Shutting down Trump rallies energizes Democratic votes.

I agree with you about the Confederate flag, even though a lot of Southerners are raised to believe it simply stands for southern pride, oblivious to its dark past. It's similar to how you still see a fair amount of Iron Crosses on merchandise, even though the Iron Cross also has an associative history with racism.

I didn't know that about the Iron Cross. I thought it was just a metal/rebel thing. Good thing I've never sported one. The more you know. ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/28/16 at 12:38 am

Why are you guys going on twitter? Twitter is only secondary to tumblr (where all the SJWs love to hang out).

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/28/16 at 12:50 am

Why are you guys going on twitter? Twitter is only secondary to tumblr (where all the SJWs love to hang out).

https://www.tumblr.com/search/SJW

Seems slightly less racist but a lot more misogynistic. In either case, straight white males are the last to be accused of being SJWs :P

And the Anime GIFs don't help with that, err, stereotype. :o

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/28/16 at 1:04 am

Are we looking at the same page? I see sh!t about dudes with "My Little Pony" haircuts and "man tears". ???

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/28/16 at 1:30 am

Are we looking at the same page? I see sh!t about dudes with "My Little Pony" haircuts and "man tears". ???

Yeah, that's one (that doesn't make any sense but I digress). The man tears one is supposed to be homophobic I think, although I guess it's a straight white woman being homophobic this time. Tumblr is a mess.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon05/28/16 at 2:09 am

Who do you mean? I'm saying that most "anti-SJWs" on Twitter are white males who're rabid conservatives, and most their "anti"-ing is directed at racial minorities, LGBT and women, rather than the supposed "white, middle or upper class, cisgender, heterosexual, etc." SJWs I keep hearing about. It appears that most people accused of being SJWs are actually the opposite of privileged.

Is being a racial, sexual, or gender minority mutually exclusive with coming from a background of privilege? Because I am definitely not imagining SJW's as homogenous in terms of the factors you brought up.

What I, as well as a lot of other people like Jordan and NewYorkEagle are trying to get at, is that SJW's, in spite of comprising of women, gays, lesbians, transgenders, blacks, hispanics, asians, etc., are ultimately very homogenous in their culture, and that culture is usually defined by those at the top of the pecking order within the SJW community. Everybody is expected to complain about pretty much every issue brought the table by taking to Twitter, Facebook, or some other outlet of social media, while coming from an alternate but still well-intentioned perspective (i.e., negotiating with the enemy or at least forming alliances around them instead of just confronting them directly) is utterly frowned upon. The ones with the loudest voices may have somewhat of book smarts but still come to their own conclusions before they actually understand what it's like to live life as a certain minority.

Hmm, well that particular view isn't without its basis in reality, but I don't even think if someone thought that, that it means that they hate white people. I can have friends who're wealthier than me and think they've had it easier, and that they don't know what it's like to be poor, but that doesn't mean I hate them. I'm aware that there are people out there who do hate white people, but their numbers are so minuscule and their power so little, I don't think this should keep anyone awake at night.

Well I'm glad you're more open-minded than a lot of other BLM members. Many people from BLM-level extremes don't want to even listen to anybody who doesn't agree with them and think the only way towards a happier future is through constant rebellion, somewhat that eventually creates backlash. I won't talk about this further because I can't speak from personal experience what BLM members think about white people, but at the very least, there's a huge contempt directed at privileged white Americans for their apparent unwillingness to acknowledge their own struggles and share their wealth.

I feel like you guys say you're "anti-SJWs" because you've got the wrong image of what an "SJW" is. You guys describe them as self-hating white males who are aggressively social progressive and want everyone to conform to their world view. I've not seen any evidence that this is what "SJWs" actually are. As far as I've seen, it's a loosely thrown around term to describe anyone who is even any bit of left of centre, and it's largely thrown at women and racial minorities. I think even you would be described as an "SJW" by most "anti-SJWs". The term isn't restrictive or specific at all.

Well, we can be against both SJW's and "anti-SJW's." Of course we can't stand the bigots who are trying to deport millions of well-meaning hispanics, pushing to legalize discrimination based on sexual orientation, and preventing all transgendered people from using the appropriate restroom. However, that does not mean we approve the means through which SJW's are pushing for social reform. In my view, minorities are practically just additional numbers for this community's own rigid culture. They're molding minorities in their own image, even whilst they claim to be providing them freedom. Sure, legislative victories are great, but that doesn't free anybody from the shackles of cultural association and stereotyping. Somebody like you, who feels much more comfortable with mid-2010s culture, is not likely to understand the negatives of the SJW movement that are nakedly obvious to people like me, NewYorkEagle, and Jordan.

I felt I could be more myself the previous decade, simply because the 2000s provided plenty of outlets for misfits to be themselves without being told how to feel about anything. Of course there was plenty of homophobia, misogyny, etc. out in mainstream society, but I still felt I could find my friends in all the right places. The 90s were pretty similar in that way, although I give a certain edge to the 2000s just because the Internet made niche communities a bit easier to find. Today, however, everything is laid out in a social media style and designed simply to evoke impulsive statements rather than artistic or intellectual conversation.

If anybody seriously wants to label anybody even slightly left of centre as SJW's, then that's their problem. But I think most people wouldn't consider me a social justice warrior. You never see me attending protests, writing my dogmatic opinions on social media, or getting angry at people for simple misunderstandings. I'm more likely to get along with somebody who identifies as conservative but isn't actively attempting to take away the rights of minorities (of whom there are plenty) than your typical urbanite, millennial trend follower from the mid-2010s, many of whom are SJW's.

I would also like to reaffirm that I don't imagine all SJW's as white, heterosexual males; on the contrary, the first thing that springs to my mind is lesbians, most of whom sport tattoos, piercing, side buzzes, and other rough fashion choices in seeming defiance of traditional femininity, in addition to being uncompromisingly leftist and bitter. How they dress and how they present their attitudes aren't necessarily "normative" on a general level per se, but within the lesbian community itself today, all of these SJW traits seem to be standard. When I think of what's considered normal for lesbians today, this is more what springs to my mind:

As a lesbian, I feel like a minority within the minority simply because I embrace my femininity. SJW's seem to applaud the above style as being natural and personalized, whereas wearing dresses, makeup, long hair, etc. are labeled as submitting to the patriarchy.

I'm not sure that's the reason we're seeing this bathroom bill. Transgenders and bathrooms has always been an active topic

What? Most people I knew hardly even knew what transgenderism even meant as late as the early 2010s. The issue was not mainstream until the mid-2010s, and so it's only been recently that organized transphobia has become a significant thing.

Republicans are naturally opposed to the idea because "God made everyone in His image, and He doesn't make mistakes", so transgendered people aren't actually real. To me, this would have been a problem sooner or later. Transgendered people using the bathroom of their gender or sexual identity goes directly against your average Republican's world view. I mean, one can see the Republican Party as a reactionary party, but I happen to see it as a party with its own ideology and its own ideas of how society should be run, independent of the existence left-wing thought and activities.

The Christian Right is more hypocritical than anything else. The "God made everyone in His image, and He doesn't make mistakes" statement is totally contradicted by the pervasive existence of homosexuals and racial minorities, who also get the boot from bigoted conservatives. They refuse to accept change of any kind.

That said, the aggressive, uncompromising nature of activist movements of today certainly do a lot to galvanize backlash support for people like Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. Most conservatives I've come across as a transgendered lesbian have actually been either accepting or at least tolerant of me, just by virtue that I personally focus on my actions and personality, but it would be different if I cynically demanded them to accept me and told them how ignorant they were. Of course, not all right wingers are willing to accept me as I am, but I would only be motivating the more close-minded people to take action against me if I confronted them undiplomatically. It's my opinion that the vast majority of people are able to overcome their prejudices, but this usually comes through earnest and positive experiences with minorities and certainly not through the bombardment of demands and insults. If you can't emotionally connect with somebody else's perspective, then your first reaction is going to be to refute their argument. Obviously, with how skewed and biased the system is today, it's hard for minorities to have any patience or willingness to compromise, but it's really only through conversation and not verbal war that true progress is made on these issues. Past successes resulted from activists' ability to negotiate with people in power, conveying their message in a way that affirmed their beliefs rather than indicting them.

I think you're going to run into that kind of problem when you're such a large umbrella group trying to represent all kinds of people from different walks of life. The important thing is that there is a main message. There will be antis who will inevitably try to focus on what irrelevant person X said about Y and how truly awful that is, but if the organization as a whole and the people in leadership positions are on message and communicate it effectively, then we should recognize that red herring and distraction for what it is.

I agree with this, but I also don't, in fact, think our current movements are communicating themselves effectively. There are huge splits, both within the BLM movement, as well as the African American population in general, and the discourse is becoming increasingly pronounced. It's become desperate and idealistic rather than pragmatic and circumspect, resulting in enemies both within the organization, as well as from the far right. America in 2016 feels more like a verbal war zone than a national forum.

I can't blame any minority for not feeling any sense of "unity" with the modern Republican Party. Donald Trump is actively out to get everyone who isn't white, there is no reason to "respect" or coddle his views when he and his supporters don't respect you as a human being. (If Republicans picked someone like Marco we wouldn't be having this conversation). I think that when non-Republicans see how much anger and resentment Donald Trump is causing, while their initial reaction might be to defend Donald Trump as the innocent victim, in the long run they will see that he is the main cause of the discontent, not BLM. Republicans themselves of course will run towards Trump the more you shut him down. That's their choice, they're not really relevant. In a general election, the main tactic would be to get out as many Democrats as you can (mostly minorities), and win enough Independents. Republicans will vote Republican no matter what, their opinion on this matter is, as I said, irrelevant. Shutting down Trump rallies energizes Democratic votes.

There was a ton of anger building in this country even before Donald Trump became the Republican favorite to win. Just a year ago from now, most people were still counting on Jeb Bush to be the nominee. I also happen to think Ted Cruz is possibly even more bigoted than Donald Trump is, despite the fact that he's Hispanic. If trump is just an egotistical boor with an elitist mindset, Cruz embodies every ugly quality of the Christian Right, between his fundamentalist, evangelical faith; to his pronounced support of anti-LGBT legislation, to his belief that church and state should not be separate.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/28/16 at 2:42 am

I don't know where Pokey gets the idea that SJW's are anything but white straight dudes. ???

My problem with them is that they're a bunch of morons who think that CAPS LOCK!!!!, being undiplomatic, using improper grammar when auguring (and then saying "language is fluid so it doesn't matter if I spell correctly") and acting like a child (saying sh!t like "ewwww F*CK YOU! U SUCK!! LOL CIS TEARS") is an ok way to be because they've been "oppressed" in some way shape or form for having self-diagnosed back pain so they should have the world wait on them hand and feet. They're aping identities to look cool which trivialize people who really struggle. Stereotypical millennial morons with sh!t for brains. The immaturity they show doesn't do justice for gay rights, it just makes it worse for people who just want to live their lives and just so happen to be LGBT. Who the hell wants to be represented by bullsh!t like that!? There's a difference between honestly fighting for your rights (to party... Ok, I'm sorry!) and being diplomatic and thoughtful about what you're saying and being a lamebrain moronic social justice warrior who colors their hair, wears stupid Buddy Holly glasses and thinks their "swag iz uneequie lit af" (I just learnt two of these new terms last week).

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon05/28/16 at 3:04 am

I don't know where Pokey gets the idea that SJW's are anything but white straight dudes. ???

Most people think of this when they think of Social Justice Warriors:

He is right, to be fair, that SJW's are a lot more ethnically and sexually diverse than just straight white guys. Regardless, what's interesting, at least to my experience black, asian, hispanic, native american, islander, etc. Social Justice Warriors dress the exact same way as your examples do.

Just to add to the fun, let's not forget about SJW Sam and Sally, either!

https://barbarianstyle.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Mohawk-haircut-for-men.jpg"Gonna go to a protest with my girlfriend to force Disney to have a gay CEO #LoveIsLove"

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/bc/d3/d9/bcd3d9954a735b485be27e7d7b4fb48f.jpg"F*** Disney for their bigotry in Zootopia, retweet this if you want them to fire John Lasseter. #LoveIsLove"

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/28/16 at 3:55 pm

Is being a racial, sexual, or gender minority mutually exclusive with coming from a background of privilege? Because I am definitely not imagining SJW's as homogenous in terms of the factors you brought up.

I think you can still be privileged in other senses of the word, but if you tick any of those boxes, it's hard for me to see as you as "privileged" overall, to the point where you don't have any right to talking about other people's struggles.

What I, as well as a lot of other people like Jordan and NewYorkEagle are trying to get at, is that SJW's, in spite of comprising of women, gays, lesbians, transgenders, blacks, hispanics, asians, etc., are ultimately very homogenous in their culture, and that culture is usually defined by those at the top of the pecking order within the SJW community. Everybody is expected to complain about pretty much every issue brought the table by taking to Twitter, Facebook, or some other outlet of social media, while coming from an alternate but still well-intentioned perspective (i.e., negotiating with the enemy or at least forming alliances around them instead of just confronting them directly) is utterly frowned upon. The ones with the loudest voices may have somewhat of book smarts but still come to their own conclusions before they actually understand what it's like to live life as a certain minority.

I'm starting to see where you're coming from. I'm not sure I've seen actual evidence that this shutting down of opinions from within the group actually happens though (if it's from outside, I could understand why it would get shut down. When you have 140 characters to explain to an outsider why something won't work, it's not surprising to me that they get shut down with no/rude explanation). But if it does happen, then that's obviously not a good thing. People should be willing to listen more than they speak.

Well I'm glad you're more open-minded than a lot of other BLM members. Many people from BLM-level extremes don't want to even listen to anybody who doesn't agree with them and think the only way towards a happier future is through constant rebellion, somewhat that eventually creates backlash. I won't talk about this further because I can't speak from personal experience what BLM members think about white people, but at the very least, there's a huge contempt directed at privileged white Americans for their apparent unwillingness to acknowledge their own struggles and share their wealth.

Anger and hate are two different things. BLM can be angry at white America for the suffering it inflicted, but that doesn't necessarily mean they hate anyone, that they want bad things to happen to white Americans. Certainly, anger can translate into hate, but anger can translate into productive and beautiful things as well. Some will take their anger to social media and hurl abuses and hate speech at innocent bystanders, that's not a productive use of anger. Others, like me when the 2015 Canadian election campaign was underway and the Conservatives made dog-whistle racism a huge part of their campaign, used our anger to get us knocking on doors, putting up campaign signs, getting people who could barely speak English to the polling booths, openly talking about politics and strategic voting with otherwise apathetic university students etc. and so the Conservatives went down in defeat, with the highest election turnout in a generation, and got virtually locked out of the Greater Toronto Area. If I wasn't angry, if seeing Conservative lawn signs in front of people's houses (especially if they were white) didn't feel me with suffocating rage, I and a lot of people would not have bothered volunteering, and god knows what the election results would've been.

The same goes for BLM, I can't blame them for being angry, but from what I see, most are using this anger to get on their feet, to go protest, to shut down Trump rallies, and to also hit the election campaign trail. To me this is a productive use of anger. It's not the same thing as actually hating white people. Hating would be inflicting violence (verbal or physical), hate speech or spreading FUD and things like that.

Well, we can be against both SJW's and "anti-SJW's." Of course we can't stand the bigots who are trying to deport millions of well-meaning hispanics, pushing to legalize discrimination based on sexual orientation, and preventing all transgendered people from using the appropriate restroom. However, that does not mean we approve the means through which SJW's are pushing for social reform. In my view, minorities are practically just additional numbers for this community's own rigid culture. They're molding minorities in their own image, even whilst they claim to be providing them freedom. Sure, legislative victories are great, but that doesn't free anybody from the shackles of cultural association and stereotyping. Somebody like you, who feels much more comfortable with mid-2010s culture, is not likely to understand the negatives of the SJW movement that are nakedly obvious to people like me, NewYorkEagle, and Jordan.

I felt I could be more myself the previous decade, simply because the 2000s provided plenty of outlets for misfits to be themselves without being told how to feel about anything. Of course there was plenty of homophobia, misogyny, etc. out in mainstream society, but I still felt I could find my friends in all the right places. The 90s were pretty similar in that way, although I give a certain edge to the 2000s just because the Internet made niche communities a bit easier to find. Today, however, everything is laid out in a social media style and designed simply to evoke impulsive statements rather than artistic or intellectual conversation.

If anybody seriously wants to label anybody even slightly left of centre as SJW's, then that's their problem. But I think most people wouldn't consider me a social justice warrior. You never see me attending protests, writing my dogmatic opinions on social media, or getting angry at people for simple misunderstandings. I'm more likely to get along with somebody who identifies as conservative but isn't actively attempting to take away the rights of minorities (of whom there are plenty) than your typical urbanite, millennial trend follower from the mid-2010s, many of whom are SJW's.

I would also like to reaffirm that I don't imagine all SJW's as white, heterosexual males; on the contrary, the first thing that springs to my mind is lesbians, most of whom sport tattoos, piercing, side buzzes, and other rough fashion choices in seeming defiance of traditional femininity, in addition to being uncompromisingly leftist and bitter. How they dress and how they present their attitudes aren't necessarily "normative" on a general level per se, but within the lesbian community itself today, all of these SJW traits seem to be standard. When I think of what's considered normal for lesbians today, this is more what springs to my mind:

As a lesbian, I feel like a minority within the minority simply because I embrace my femininity. SJW's seem to applaud the above style as being natural and personalized, whereas wearing dresses, makeup, long hair, etc. are labeled as submitting to the patriarchy.

That's more the type of SJWs I was thinking about too. Heterosexual, white, male SJWs are an endangered species, and not what I see as the face of SJWs. White males are the only demographic that are leaning Trump as of this moment, so I don't see how the demographic has come to being stereotyped as far-leftist, let alone the face of the ideology.

While I wouldn't describe myself as "anti-SJW", I can't defend the practice of people marginalizing other people within their own minority group. That's just awful. People need to hear everyone's opinions, respect everyone's individuality, and defer to people where they can afford to, instead of forcing their opinions on others.

What? Most people I knew hardly even knew what transgenderism even meant as late as the early 2010s. The issue was not mainstream until the mid-2010s, and so it's only been recently that organized transphobia has become a significant thing.

Really? I remember transgenders making frequent appearances on trash shows like The Maury Show and Jerry Springer in the late 2000s, basically being flung around as freak shows of entertainment value. There was a game show "Man or Woman?" in the late 2000s, where contestants basically guessed whether a person was a man or a woman just by looking at them and a 10 second interview. I remember people making jokes about how Lady Gaga is actually a man and Rosie O'Donnel was born a man. Heck, wasn't there a Family Guy episode about Quagmire's dad being transfemale, and how gross and disgusting she was? Organized transphobia might not have been a thing until this year, but I'm not sure it's true to say that there was no transphobia or lack of awareness on what a transgender is before the mid-2010s. I will agree that transphobia is much worse in this sub-era, as this hate is now resulting in actual legislation and hateful rhetoric every time you turn on the television. I wouldn't wish that on anyone and I hope this election campaign comes to an end soon. 8-P

The Christian Right is more hypocritical than anything else. The "God made everyone in His image, and He doesn't make mistakes" statement is totally contradicted by the pervasive existence of homosexuals and racial minorities, who also get the boot from bigoted conservatives. They refuse to accept change of any kind.

1) homosexuals choose to be that way, 2) God put different races on different parts of the planet, and they should not mix. I don't think these statements are contradictory with what they believe.

That said, the aggressive, uncompromising nature of activist movements of today certainly do a lot to galvanize backlash support for people like Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. Most conservatives I've come across as a transgendered lesbian have actually been either accepting or at least tolerant of me, just by virtue that I personally focus on my actions and personality, but it would be different if I cynically demanded them to accept me and told them how ignorant they were. Of course, not all right wingers are willing to accept me as I am, but I would only be motivating the more close-minded people to take action against me if I confronted them undiplomatically. It's my opinion that the vast majority of people are able to overcome their prejudices, but this usually comes through earnest and positive experiences with minorities and certainly not through the bombardment of demands and insults. If you can't emotionally connect with somebody else's perspective, then your first reaction is going to be to refute their argument. Obviously, with how skewed and biased the system is today, it's hard for minorities to have any patience or willingness to compromise, but it's really only through conversation and not verbal war that true progress is made on these issues. Past successes resulted from activists' ability to negotiate with people in power, conveying their message in a way that affirmed their beliefs rather than indicting them.

Conservatives can backlash all they want, as long as they are kept out of power, they can't do anything. In fact, their backlash is good in the long run, I hope to see the implosion of the modern Republican Party come the end of this year if Trump goes down in historic defeat. The creation of the Tea Party and the resulting party in-fighting has been an absolute boon to Democrats around the time of presidential elections (though of course, not as much during mid-terms, which are more important).

I agree that, on an individual to individual level, diplomatically and calmly explaining things is better. For close minded people, it's most better to show them why they're wrong, and then stop engaging with them, and let the doubt fester in their mind. Shouting and verbal abuses almost never make any situation better. I'm not the best at debating or getting people to change their minds, but that's usually how I roll.

However, with Trump supporters, one must understand that there isn't even a willingness on the other side to want to change their mind or make comprises. This is the far-right we're talking about, they are living on a completely different planet. As long as they are in the minority (which they are), then the majority shutting down their rallies and preventing them from spreading their hate ideology can only be a good thing. They should be shown that their opinions are unwelcome. They can keep "backlashing", but it's a "the mouse that roared" situation if they're in the minority.

I agree with this, but I also don't, in fact, think our current movements are communicating themselves effectively. There are huge splits, both within the BLM movement, as well as the African American population in general, and the discourse is becoming increasingly pronounced. It's become desperate and idealistic rather than pragmatic and circumspect, resulting in enemies both within the organization, as well as from the far right. America in 2016 feels more like a verbal war zone than a national forum.

I can't say I'm too well versed on what black people think of BLM. I thought most would have supported it, but if you say there's a huge divide, that's new information to me. As far as I know, BLM is a very disparate groups with many local chapters, a large umbrella organization. It has the room to absorb various opinions from all sorts of people from all walks of life, and I believe it has done a good job at doing what it does in the short period of time it has existed.

There was a ton of anger building in this country even before Donald Trump became the Republican favorite to win. Just a year ago from now, most people were still counting on Jeb Bush to be the nominee. I also happen to think Ted Cruz is possibly even more bigoted than Donald Trump is, despite the fact that he's Hispanic. If trump is just an egotistical boor with an elitist mindset, Cruz embodies every ugly quality of the Christian Right, between his fundamentalist, evangelical faith; to his pronounced support of anti-LGBT legislation, to his belief that church and state should not be separate.

They're both disgusting to me, though I also have a special fear for Ted Cruz because of his plans to turn the US into a theocracy, unlike Donald Trump who is very irreligious despite his fascism. Republicans had the choice to reject Trump/Cruz and move to the 11 other candidates. Instead, they hopped with bounce in their feet into Trump's arms. I think there should be consequences for Republicans (in the form of historical electoral defeat) for the choices they made, not "meeting them in the middle" or coddling of their views. That would be a huge mistake and enabling their behaviour. There are some things I and other leftists are willing to compromise on, but racial issues is not one of them.

Phew, this post took a while to write. I can't say I can do this too often ;D

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/28/16 at 4:23 pm

I don't know where Pokey gets the idea that SJW's are anything but white straight dudes. ???

My problem with them is that they're a bunch of morons who think that CAPS LOCK!!!!, being undiplomatic, using improper grammar when auguring (and then saying "language is fluid so it doesn't matter if I spell correctly") and acting like a child (saying sh!t like "ewwww F*CK YOU! U SUCK!! LOL CIS TEARS") is an ok way to be because they've been "oppressed" in some way shape or form for having self-diagnosed back pain so they should have the world wait on them hand and feet. They're aping identities to look cool which trivialize people who really struggle. Stereotypical millennial morons with sh!t for brains. The immaturity they show doesn't do justice for gay rights, it just makes it worse for people who just want to live their lives and just so happen to be LGBT. Who the hell wants to be represented by bullsh!t like that!? There's a difference between honestly fighting for your rights (to party... Ok, I'm sorry!) and being diplomatic and thoughtful about what you're saying and being a lamebrain moronic social justice warrior who colors their hair, wears stupid Buddy Holly glasses and thinks their "swag iz uneequie lit af" (I just learnt two of these new terms last week).

Stop judging people by their clothes and hair >:( Anyway, I have not seen any proof that SJWs look like that. I mean, you guys keep mentioning these mythic white straight male SJWs, but I haven't seen 'em.

The rest of your post seems to be a rant on today's youth culture in general, rather than SJW stuff in particular. :o SJW is a word defined by the people it's used on, rather than a word that actually has a real, searchable, dictionary definition. From what I've seen, what you've been describing isn't what qualifies as your typical SJW.

The fedora guy is an anti-SJW pic btw. It's from Nice Guys of OKCupid (aka guys who describe themselves as "nice guys" in their dating profile but say misogynist "anti-SJW" things in the rest of their profile). The fedora is also an item that's been associated with the militant atheist movement.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/28/16 at 10:20 pm

Stop judging people by their clothes and hair >:( Anyway, I have not seen any proof that SJWs look like that. I mean, you guys keep mentioning these mythic white straight male SJWs, but I haven't seen 'em.

The rest of your post seems to be a rant on today's youth culture in general, rather than SJW stuff in particular. :o SJW is a word defined by the people it's used on, rather than a word that actually has a real, searchable, dictionary definition. From what I've seen, what you've been describing isn't what qualifies as your typical SJW.

The fedora guy is an anti-SJW pic btw. It's from Nice Guys of OKCupid (aka guys who describe themselves as "nice guys" in their dating profile but say misogynist "anti-SJW" things in the rest of their profile). The fedora is also an item that's been associated with the militant atheist movement.

Oh look at me as I continue to judge based upon clothing! ;) For real, social justice warriors are exactly like this. I've encountered them in real life many times over here. They look like your modern hipster. One guy even yelled at me in public!

Today's Youth Culture indeed does suck and intersects with social justice culture almost always (it seems) but I'm speaking on personal experience. SJW's I have encountered both online and in real life have acted in each and every way I've mentioned. The photos above are exactly the same things I've described a SJW as being.

He is? I thought he was one of those white knight neckbeard SJW "feminists"?

He is right, to be fair, that SJW's are a lot more ethnically and sexually diverse than just straight white guys. Regardless, what's interesting, at least to my experience black, asian, hispanic, native american, islander, etc. Social Justice Warriors dress the exact same way as your examples do.

Just to add to the fun, let's not forget about SJW Sam and Sally, either!

https://barbarianstyle.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Mohawk-haircut-for-men.jpg"Gonna go to a protest with my girlfriend to force Disney to have a gay CEO #LoveIsLove"

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/bc/d3/d9/bcd3d9954a735b485be27e7d7b4fb48f.jpg"F*** Disney for their bigotry in Zootopia, retweet this if you want them to fire John Lasseter. #LoveIsLove"

That's definitely true. I think, from more of an wealthy upbringing standpoint, they all seem to have come from rich Trust Fund backgrounds. I've never met one social justice warrior who's poor/broke/short for cash/ect. Not once. And yeah, they've all got that hipster look no matter what they are!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on05/28/16 at 11:32 pm

Oh look at me as I continue to judge based upon clothing! ;) For real, social justice warriors are exactly like this. I've encountered them in real life many times over here. They look like your modern hipster. One guy even yelled at me in public!

Today's Youth Culture indeed does suck and intersects with social justice culture almost always (it seems) but I'm speaking on personal experience. SJW's I have encountered both online and in real life have acted in each and every way I've mentioned. The photos above are exactly the same things I've described a SJW as being.

He is? I thought he was one of those white knight neckbeard SJW "feminists"?

That's definitely true. I think, from more of an wealthy upbringing standpoint, they all seem to have come from rich Trust Fund backgrounds. I've never met one social justice warrior who's poor/broke/short for cash/ect. Not once. And yeah, they've all got that hipster look no matter what they are!

Those seem to be caricatures. When I go on Tumblr and Twitter and see who the word "SJW" gets thrown at, it's never anyone who fits those stereotypes. I've never seen anyone with coloured hair being called an SJW.

No, fedoras and neckbeards are associated with anti-SJWs/MRA/red pill types.

I'm pretty sure I'd be described as an "SJW" by most "anti-SJWs" (and I revel in it -- if you're not making conservatives frothing at the mouth in anger on a daily basis, then your life is boring IMO :P) and I grew up in one of the poorest cities in Canada. My childhood neighbourhood is described as "suburban, white, lower-middle income with mostly young families with high divorce rates" and my teen neighbourhood is described "diverse, poorly-educated, middle-income, city-dwellers" by Environics Analytics. As of 2016 with my job, we're now upper-middle income (if we combine my and my dad's income). Living that Canadian Dream. 8)

My current neighbourhood is "Metro multiculturals: semi-diverse, upscale, multi-aged and older households, nearly retired, with many second generation and pre-1990 immigrants". It's so detailed LOL

http://www.environicsanalytics.ca/prizm5

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/29/16 at 1:45 am

Those seem to be caricatures. When I go on Tumblr and Twitter and see who the word "SJW" gets thrown at, it's never anyone who fits those stereotypes. I've never seen anyone with coloured hair being called an SJW.

No, fedoras and neckbeards are associated with anti-SJWs/MRA/red pill types.

I'm pretty sure I'd be described as an "SJW" by most "anti-SJWs" (and I revel in it -- if you're not making conservatives frothing at the mouth in anger on a daily basis, then your life is boring IMO :P) and I grew up in one of the poorest cities in Canada. My childhood neighbourhood is described as "suburban, white, lower-middle income with mostly young families with high divorce rates" and my teen neighbourhood is described "diverse, poorly-educated, middle-income, city-dwellers" by Environics Analytics. As of 2016 with my job, we're now upper-middle income (if we combine my and my dad's income). Living that Canadian Dream. 8)

My current neighbourhood is "Metro multiculturals: semi-diverse, upscale, multi-aged and older households, nearly retired, with many second generation and pre-1990 immigrants". It's so detailed LOL

http://www.environicsanalytics.ca/prizm5

You sure? I see people like that all the time! Even in real life I've encountered many people who've looked and acted like the caricatures I posted.

Huh? Red pill? You mean like the Matrix? Is that another internet thing?

I thought we established that you're a Nu Metaller Male! Don't you remember what Zelek showed us? :P Speaking of which, did you know Zelek is 26!? I thought he was born in 1994 or whatever... Much older than I thought! Aren't all the big cities in Canada super poor or whatever? I grew up in a nice wealthy neighborhood but I was always broke 'cuz I spent my money daily. I had some pretty rad spending habits as a teenager: got the check? Spend it right away! 8) I made Liberals froth at the mouth in 2004 when I said that "War rules! Bush is America's #1 hero!". :-X

You have to enter in your... "Postal" code to access the website, dude. :P

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon05/29/16 at 10:54 am

I think you can still be privileged in other senses of the word, but if you tick any of those boxes, it's hard for me to see as you as "privileged" overall, to the point where you don't have any right to talking about other people's struggles.

Being black, being gay, being female, being transgendered, and being any other respective minority are completely different things. A lot of people would envy me for being white and coming from a wealthy family, but I personally envy the vast majority of other people my age for their ability to find love, even without friendly social skills, and that they're highly regarded by their peers even if they're really just sheep.

I'm starting to see where you're coming from. I'm not sure I've seen actual evidence that this shutting down of opinions from within the group actually happens though (if it's from outside, I could understand why it would get shut down. When you have 140 characters to explain to an outsider why something won't work, it's not surprising to me that they get shut down with no/rude explanation). But if it does happen, then that's obviously not a good thing. People should be willing to listen more than they speak.

It's the chronic problem of civilization that has only skyrocketed to new heights this decade. Everything is categorized in black and white terms, while middling is most frequently seen as betrayal or blasphemy rather than prescient support.

Anger and hate are two different things. BLM can be angry at white America for the suffering it inflicted, but that doesn't necessarily mean they hate anyone, that they want bad things to happen to white Americans. Certainly, anger can translate into hate, but anger can translate into productive and beautiful things as well. Some will take their anger to social media and hurl abuses and hate speech at innocent bystanders, that's not a productive use of anger. Others, like me when the 2015 Canadian election campaign was underway and the Conservatives made dog-whistle racism a huge part of their campaign, used our anger to get us knocking on doors, putting up campaign signs, getting people who could barely speak English to the polling booths, openly talking about politics and strategic voting with otherwise apathetic university students etc. and so the Conservatives went down in defeat, with the highest election turnout in a generation, and got virtually locked out of the Greater Toronto Area. If I wasn't angry, if seeing Conservative lawn signs in front of people's houses (especially if they were white) didn't feel me with suffocating rage, I and a lot of people would not have bothered volunteering, and god knows what the election results would've been.

Anger and hate are usually intertwined, to be honest. The difference between peaceful activism and confrontational mobbing is that those who practice the former are usually better at coping with their frustration and venting it into productive means.

For the record, most SJW's I know are not the hard-working, circumspect, and diplomatic types that historical activists were. They're just making their own judgments out of impulse and demanding that everybody they come across agrees with them without compromise. They don't look for empathy, and what little consideration they do have for rival institutions is usually biased to fit their own grim worldview.

The same goes for BLM, I can't blame them for being angry, but from what I see, most are using this anger to get on their feet, to go protest, to shut down Trump rallies, and to also hit the election campaign trail. To me this is a productive use of anger. It's not the same thing as actually hating white people. Hating would be inflicting violence (verbal or physical), hate speech or spreading FUD and things like that.

You consider shutting down Trump rallies to be something productive? As far as I'm concerned, that's just adding fuel to the already-burning fire. Obviously, Trump supporters are hard to negotiate with, but sabotaging their rallies certainly does nothing to extinguish their vile backlash.

From what I've gathered, a vast bulk of BLM members have been pretty hateful in the midst of these controversies. Remember the chaos that followed the Michael Brown decision? Even activists in the African American community, plus Michael Brown's parents, were appalled by the destructive behavior that followed the ruling. You can certainly argue that African Americans have a perfect reason to be downright enraged by the unchecked racism plaguing this nation, but one thing's for certain, rioting is not going to bring a peaceful resolution to this ongoing struggle between the oppressed and the oppressor. The only thing it really does is give mandate to conservatives for increased security measures, as is exactly what happened in the late 60s when Nixon was first elected.

That's more the type of SJWs I was thinking about too. Heterosexual, white, male SJWs are an endangered species, and not what I see as the face of SJWs. White males are the only demographic that are leaning Trump as of this moment, so I don't see how the demographic has come to being stereotyped as far-leftist, let alone the face of the ideology.

They're not, but SJW's themselves are still frequently seen as white heterosexual males, even though there is definitely far more ethnic diversity (not behavioral diversity) in that community than Jordan seems to have come across.

While I wouldn't describe myself as "anti-SJW", I can't defend the practice of people marginalizing other people within their own minority group. That's just awful. People need to hear everyone's opinions, respect everyone's individuality, and defer to people where they can afford to, instead of forcing their opinions on others.

Neither would I, and neither would Jordan. You've already seen how hurt I can be by transphobic speech, even though at the same time, I try to think of as diplomatic a solution to the bathroom controversy as possible.

Really? I remember transgenders making frequent appearances on trash shows like The Maury Show and Jerry Springer in the late 2000s, basically being flung around as freak shows of entertainment value. There was a game show "Man or Woman?" in the late 2000s, where contestants basically guessed whether a person was a man or a woman just by looking at them and a 10 second interview. I remember people making jokes about how Lady Gaga is actually a man and Rosie O'Donnel was born a man. Heck, wasn't there a Family Guy episode about Quagmire's dad being transfemale, and how gross and disgusting she was? Organized transphobia might not have been a thing until this year, but I'm not sure it's true to say that there was no transphobia or lack of awareness on what a transgender is before the mid-2010s. I will agree that transphobia is much worse in this sub-era, as this hate is now resulting in actual legislation and hateful rhetoric every time you turn on the television. I wouldn't wish that on anyone and I hope this election campaign comes to an end soon. 8-P

Transphobia has definitely existed well before the mid-2010s, and it was definitely an occasional topic for several decades, going back even to the early 50s with Ed Wood's notorious Glen or Glenda, but also receiving attention in the 90s with The Crying Game, Boys Don't Cry, and even Ace Ventura: Pet Detective. However, until only a few years ago, transgenderism was considered such a radical and taboo subject that it was only seldom promoted, and the few times it was left audiences far more confounded than educated.

I'm definitely in the same boat, I can't stand this election season largely due to the bathroom controversy being such a big talking point. Every time I read some new story about the Target boycott, it totally spoils my day.

1) homosexuals choose to be that way, 2) God put different races on different parts of the planet, and they should not mix. I don't think these statements are contradictory with what they believe.

I do. The former is a pathetic excuse and isn't at all consistent with the nakedly obvious evidence that humans may be naturally gay, even if some identify in the middle of the spectrum of sexuality. The latter point easily goes against the love thy neighbor verse and certainly doesn't account for the mass importation of slaves that occurred during the colonial era, anyway.

Conservatives can backlash all they want, as long as they are kept out of power, they can't do anything. In fact, their backlash is good in the long run, I hope to see the implosion of the modern Republican Party come the end of this year if Trump goes down in historic defeat. The creation of the Tea Party and the resulting party in-fighting has been an absolute boon to Democrats around the time of presidential elections (though of course, not as much during mid-terms, which are more important).

I actually think that even if Trump wins, his administration will be riddled with obstacles that prevent him from being able to do many things, due to the fact that his institutional political base in Washington and elsewhere is tepid at best. The fact that several prominent Republicans have outright decried him, including previous presidential candidate Mitt Romney, speaks to how splintered the Republican Party of today is and how imminent a realignment is.

However, with Trump supporters, one must understand that there isn't even a willingness on the other side to want to change their mind or make comprises. This is the far-right we're talking about, they are living on a completely different planet. As long as they are in the minority (which they are), then the majority shutting down their rallies and preventing them from spreading their hate ideology can only be a good thing. They should be shown that their opinions are unwelcome. They can keep "backlashing", but it's a "the mouse that roared" situation if they're in the minority.

I'm certainly no fan of the nihilistic far-right that supports Trump, but yes, the best thing to do is to prove their opinions are unwelcome. This can, however, be achieved more passive-aggressively as opposed to interrupting Trump rallies and grinding their gears even further.

I can't say I'm too well versed on what black people think of BLM. I thought most would have supported it, but if you say there's a huge divide, that's new information to me. As far as I know, BLM is a very disparate groups with many local chapters, a large umbrella organization. It has the room to absorb various opinions from all sorts of people from all walks of life, and I believe it has done a good job at doing what it does in the short period of time it has existed.

There has long been a lot of division within the organization. Many black females criticize the movement for focusing too much on black males victimized by the police, without taking enough consideration of the sexual harassment that occurs at unnatural levels to women in the black community. In one similar example, the creators of the Straight Outta Compton movie were criticized for completely overlooking J.J. Fad in the development of N.W.A., as well as ignoring the domestic violence in Andre Young's family. Others are troubled by the prevailing macho image within the African American community, traditionally formed as a bulwark against brutality but also creating a lot of tension within the community, especially from nerdier, more effeminate, or gay members of the community. Even more, still, are critical of BLM's presentation of African Americans as victims, as opposed to individuals of strong character able to overcome the black freedom struggle by virtue and merit rather than complaining in the streets. Essentially, different people in the black community feel differently about Black Lives Matter, and its social media-driven, numbers-fueled rebellion isn't a universally positive thing for all African Americans.

They're both disgusting to me, though I also have a special fear for Ted Cruz because of his plans to turn the US into a theocracy, unlike Donald Trump who is very irreligious despite his fascism. Republicans had the choice to reject Trump/Cruz and move to the 11 other candidates. Instead, they hopped with bounce in their feet into Trump's arms. I think there should be consequences for Republicans (in the form of historical electoral defeat) for the choices they made, not "meeting them in the middle" or coddling of their views. That would be a huge mistake and enabling their behaviour. There are some things I and other leftists are willing to compromise on, but racial issues is not one of them.

Even if Trump goes down in embarrassing defeat, there's no reason the Republicans can't bounce back with even more fury, if the aftermath of the McCain loss in 2008 is any indication. What we really need is a full-blown discrediting of the aging institutions that allow for the heinous extremes of the Republican Party to survive. This would actually most likely happen if a Republican became president and then ran an administration of complete and utter disjunction, thus paving the way for the type of sweeping revolution that Bernie Sanders has demanded.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/29/16 at 3:31 pm

Those seem to be caricatures. When I go on Tumblr and Twitter and see who the word "SJW" gets thrown at, it's never anyone who fits those stereotypes. I've never seen anyone with coloured hair being called an SJW.

Then how come Tumblr is associated with SJWs who basically have the same sh*t that Jordan described? Either you don't look at enough SJWs on Tumblr, or you're probably a closet SJW. Just saying. Even if you're seriously an SJW, then I'm okay with that. Just don't talk about feminism with me.

No, fedoras and neckbeards are associated with anti-SJWs/MRA/red pill types.

They're also associated with SJW culture, if you look at those people on Tumblr who obsess over social justice culture every day.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/30/16 at 12:39 am

Then how come Tumblr is associated with SJWs who basically have the same sh*t that Jordan described? Either you don't look at enough SJWs on Tumblr, or you're probably a closet SJW. Just saying. Even if you're seriously an SJW, then I'm okay with that. Just don't talk about feminism with me.

They're also associated with SJW culture, if you look at those people on Tumblr who obsess over social justice culture every day.

He did say:

I'm pretty sure I'd be described as an "SJW" by most "anti-SJWs" (and I revel in it -- if you're not making conservatives frothing at the mouth in anger on a daily basis, then your life is boring IMO :P)

So I doubt our bud is a "closet" social justice warrior or anything. I really don't think he's anything close to one, either. You're right about tumblr, that site is filled with the exact people I've shown above.

Also, I believe this thread alone proves that not all anti-social justice warriors are old straight white male conservatives as we see people of different types (me, Infinity, XY Kid and New York Eagle) speaking on why this little group of mommy's special little activists are counter-productive and downright cancerous. There's a difference between being thoughtful and intelligent and being a moronic trust-fund millennial child. A SJW is always the latter. SJW's are downright stupid.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/30/16 at 6:52 pm

Speaking of SJWs, I probably found out that they're politically related to white supremacists.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjQTTRCUoAABErU.jpg:large

So I suppose that being a SJW equals being a racial supremacist, since they believe in that sh*t. If Slowpoke reads this, then he has some explaining to do.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/30/16 at 7:04 pm

Social Justice Warriors and Alt-Right guys are two sides of the same coin. The both of them are moronic imbeciles with their heads stuck far up their asses.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon05/30/16 at 7:16 pm

Social Justice Warriors and Alt-Right guys are two sides of the same coin. The both of them are moronic imbeciles with their heads stuck far up their asses.

Exactly!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:musicguy93on05/30/16 at 11:49 pm

Social Justice Warriors and Alt-Right guys are two sides of the same coin. The both of them are moronic imbeciles with their heads stuck far up their asses.

THIS!

The SJWs and the Alt-Right can eat each other alive for all I care.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on05/31/16 at 4:46 am

THIS!

The SJWs and the Alt-Right can eat each other alive for all I care.

I wish they would!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on06/04/16 at 12:48 am

You sure? I see people like that all the time! Even in real life I've encountered many people who've looked and acted like the caricatures I posted.

Huh? Red pill? You mean like the Matrix? Is that another internet thing?

I thought we established that you're a Nu Metaller Male! Don't you remember what Zelek showed us? :P Speaking of which, did you know Zelek is 26!? I thought he was born in 1994 or whatever... Much older than I thought! Aren't all the big cities in Canada super poor or whatever? I grew up in a nice wealthy neighborhood but I was always broke 'cuz I spent my money daily. I had some pretty rad spending habits as a teenager: got the check? Spend it right away! 8) I made Liberals froth at the mouth in 2004 when I said that "War rules! Bush is America's #1 hero!". :-X

You have to enter in your... "Postal" code to access the website, dude. :P

You saw people with My Little Pony hair?? I met a dude a few days ago who dyes his hair blue, but you told me that you do that too. He's a blink-182 fan too, but he was wearing the t-shirt for the self-titled.

Yeah, red pillers are people who think they know what women really want (subjection and being put in their place), unlike blue pillers who give women what they say they want (kindness and respect?).

Aren't Nu Males supposed to be cuckolded SJWs who defend women but never get laid in return :P I have a couple of lady fans but I defend them out of the benevolence of my heart. 8)

I think I remember him saying he was born 1990, and that he was a mid-2000s teen.

All the big cities are super poor? Well, Hamilton is the poorest of the super poor! Everyone makes mean jokes about us >:( We had it tough. I searched for coal in the gutter for our fire in the winter, I had to poop in the outhouse, the kids who had electric lighting were the spoilt ones, I had to carry the water from the well down the hill, travelling to Toronto took a week on my horse and buggy. And you're calling me a trust fund kid!

Lol we're opposites on that one. I was obsessed with coupons when I was a teen, and I opened my retirement savings account when I was 20 ;D

Sad! No wonder you hate 2004. You must've had no friends after that comment. >:(

Whoops. My old postal codes were close to "L8W 2X2" for Hamilton (childhood) and "M4C 4G5" for Toronto (teen).

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on06/04/16 at 1:00 am

Then how come Tumblr is associated with SJWs who basically have the same sh*t that Jordan described? Either you don't look at enough SJWs on Tumblr, or you're probably a closet SJW. Just saying. Even if you're seriously an SJW

No, I can't say I go on Tumblr just to look at SJWs. That would be strange. As for why they're described like that; it's because people want to make fun of them. I'd bet a million bucks most SJWs don't dye their hair blue, yet that is the stereotype.

then I'm okay with that. Just don't talk about feminism with me.

I consider myself a feminist. First protest I went to was actually one against rape culture after a string of sexual assaults on campus. It was surreal! I felt like I was a part of something. Afterwards, the university set up phone booths/hotlines throughout campus from where you could speed dial security/volunteers that escort you to where you want to go at night. Something good came out of it. :)

They're also associated with SJW culture, if you look at those people on Tumblr who obsess over social justice culture every day.

Sorry, but SJWs would never culturally appropriate what doesn't belong to them. Neckbeards and fedoras are for anti-SJWs.

knowyourmeme.com/memes/fedora-shaming (read the last sub-heading)knowyourmeme.com/photos/550251-fedora-shaming

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on06/04/16 at 1:11 am

Speaking of SJWs, I probably found out that they're politically related to white supremacists.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjQTTRCUoAABErU.jpg:large

So I suppose that being a SJW equals being a racial supremacist, since they believe in that sh*t. If Slowpoke reads this, then he has some explaining to do.

Social Justice Warriors and Alt-Right guys are two sides of the same coin. The both of them are moronic imbeciles with their heads stuck far up their asses.

You guys have your priorities messed up! Say what you want about SJWs, but they're no where near as bad as the alt-right. SJWs are mostly imaginary internet people you guys made up and go out of your way to stalk on Tumblr to piss yourselves off. Alt-right are an actual real thing, they're neo-Nazis that spread hate, racism, and have murdered and physically assaulted racial minorities. You can't even joke about that sh*t. Call me when SJWs are associated with violence and hatred and not blue hair and Starbucks coffee.

So I suppose that being a SJW equals being a racial supremacist, since they believe in that sh*t.

No it does not. Don't even go there, it's not the same scale at all.

@Infinity -- I'll try to reply to your post some time this or next week. Busy week up ahead.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Slim95on06/04/16 at 1:15 am

You guys have your priorities messed up! Say what you want about SJWs, but they're no where near as bad as the alt-right. SJWs are mostly imaginary internet people you guys made up and go out of your way to stalk on Tumblr to piss yourselves off. Alt-right are an actual real thing, they're neo-Nazis that spread hate, racism, and have murdered and physically assaulted racial minorities. You can't even joke about that sh*t. Call me when SJWs are associated with violence and hatred and not blue hair and Starbucks coffee.

I agree.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon06/04/16 at 1:42 am

No, I can't say I go on Tumblr just to look at SJWs. That would be strange. As for why they're described like that; it's because people want to make fun of them. I'd bet a million bucks most SJWs don't dye their hair blue, yet that is the stereotype.

That's just one trait that's a bit more common with that community than the rest of the world, but even in Jordan's photos earlier in this thread, none of the examples he posted had blue-dyed hair. There are different types of SJW's, but they all conform to the same narrow range of styles regardless.

I consider myself a feminist. First protest I went to was actually one against rape culture after a string of sexual assaults on campus. It was surreal! I felt like I was a part of something. Afterwards, the university set up phone booths/hotlines throughout campus from where you could speed dial security/volunteers that escort you to where you want to go at night. Something good came out of it. :)

Well, there's definitely something to be said about the issue of violence against women, but the direction the conversation has gone in recent years is downright paranoid. In many ways, too, it allows for harmful narratives against other minorities, especially African Americans and transgenders. Ever since spring 2013, these rape culture debates and protests began sprouting up all over my college and on Facebook, and I personally found all of it overbearing and really one-sided. It basically paints any institution that doesn't act as a police state towards sexual assault, even when there are other important factors to consider, as ignorant and sexist. When tackling sexual harassment against women, fraternity culture is one aspect, and so are drunk driving and male entitlement, but mid-2010s feminists are so confrontational that they won't even listen to anybody who tries to explain the situation more from an external perspective.

In all honesty, as a transgendered woman with incredibly unfruitful luck in simply looking for a romantic partner, I have found rape culture feminism alienating more than anything else. I of course consider hyper-aggression in males and sexual assault horrible things, but what I get from our current culture is that anybody who's an outsider or just desperate for love should be avoided at all costs, that there's no room for trust unless you conform to the exact same views and styles as everybody else. Essentially, it reinforces exactly the type of fear that I believe caused my high school crush to avoid and block me in 2011, even though I was positive my heart was in the right place. It's also the same type of hysteria that conservatives have exploited in the anti-transgender bathroom campaigns this year. But besides, the fact that so many of these feminists have boyfriends of their own, anyway, just causes the whole movement to feel that much more condescending to me. This whole modern climate is downright dour, and just because some positive results have come from these protests doesn't mean there are a lot of negative side-effects as well, especially depending on your perspective.

Sorry, but SJWs would never culturally appropriate what doesn't belong to them. Neckbeards and fedoras are for anti-SJWs.

knowyourmeme.com/memes/fedora-shaming (read the last sub-heading)knowyourmeme.com/photos/550251-fedora-shaming

FYI, you're kind of generalizing anti-SJW's just as much as Jordan is generalizing SJW's.

You guys have your priorities messed up! Say what you want about SJWs, but they're no where near as bad as the alt-right. SJWs are mostly imaginary internet people you guys made up and go out of your way to stalk on Tumblr to piss yourselves off. Alt-right are an actual real thing, they're neo-Nazis that spread hate, racism, and have murdered and physically assaulted racial minorities. You can't even joke about that sh*t. Call me when SJWs are associated with violence and hatred and not blue hair and Starbucks coffee.

No it does not. Don't even go there, it's not the same scale at all.

You're still missing the point that Jordan, NewYorkEagle, and I have been trying to drive home at, and your personal response above pretty much proves exactly why we can't stand the mid-2010s. The sociopolitical climate of the present has become so black and white that people nowadays act as though there's no such thing as a middle ground. Being neutral is harder than ever because somebody's going to categorize you either way, whether an anti-SJW calls me a socialist loving dyke for my support of LGBT rights and fair representation of minorities, or if an SJW labels me a bigot just because I don't attend protests and because I indulge in traditionally feminine clothing and mannerisms.

What I gather from your perspective is that SJW's and/or Sanders supports are by fact superior to anti-SJW's and/or Trump supporters. While on an overall level, I would certainly prefer living in a society of SJW's than anti-SJW's who try to force me into the men's restroom and abstain from finding the love of my life, I really only consider SJW's the lesser of two evils. Both sides are conformist and extremist, and I cannot stand the prospect of an America that is permanently stuck with two one-dimensional poles and virtually nothing resembling empathy, critical thought, compromise, diplomacy, or coexistence. This is not a matter of good versus evil in my opinion, it's a matter of finding a resolution that appeases both sides, regardless of perspective, so that with enough time, effort, and patience, all may come together in harmony in spite of their diverse beliefs, styles, and world views. It sickens me that you're basically calling us apologetics of bigotry simply because we don't wholly embrace current progressive values and trends. We ask only for a third way, which allows for free opportunity while still giving others the benefit of the doubt even if they occasionally misunderstand each other or say something offensive.

@Infinity -- I'll try to reply to your post some time this or next week. Busy week up ahead.

I guess it'll be busier still! :P

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon06/04/16 at 1:59 am

Oh, by the way, Jordan, I'm sure you'll love this just as much as I did, but apparently, James Rolfe has been mercilessly attacked via Twitter because he stated he won't see or review the upcoming Ghostbusters movie. SJW's are basically calling him a misogynst just because the new movie has an all-female cast, even though he never even referred to the gender as being a problem; he was more turned off by the special effects and the trailer's lack of faithfulness to the original Ghostbusters universe.

Besides, c'mon, he's not sexist. (I would also refer to the end of his review of Custer's Revenge from episode 32, but I don't feel like linking to something that explicit on this board)

In a nutshell, are we obligated to like any piece of media that primarily features minorities, regardless of their objective quality? You know, backwards discrimination? Because that's exactly what SJW's are promoting.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon06/04/16 at 8:34 am

Oh, by the way, Jordan, I'm sure you'll love this just as much as I did, but apparently, James Rolfe has been mercilessly attacked via Twitter because he stated he won't see or review the upcoming Ghostbusters movie. SJW's are basically calling him a misogynst just because the new movie has an all-female cast, even though he never even referred to the gender as being a problem; he was more turned off by the special effects and the trailer's lack of faithfulness to the original Ghostbusters universe.

Besides, c'mon, he's not sexist. (I would also refer to the end of his review of Custer's Revenge from episode 32, but I don't feel like linking to something that explicit on this board)

In a nutshell, are we obligated to like any piece of media that primarily features minorities, regardless of their objective quality? You know, backwards discrimination? Because that's exactly what SJW's are promoting.

THIS!

Pretty much any SJW disagreed with his views over the next Ghostbusters film, which is delusional to them because he just didn't want to see the movie. Especially when he's not a sexist. I actually feel sorry for James Rolfe for facing these comments from those rabid SJWs/internet feminists.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon06/04/16 at 2:05 pm

THIS!

Pretty much any SJW disagreed with his views over the next Ghostbusters film, which is delusional to them because he just didn't want to see the movie. Especially when he's not a sexist. I actually feel sorry for James Rolfe for facing these comments from those rabid SJWs/internet feminists.

As you should feel. He didn't say anything wrong, and it's certainly not like he won't watch Alien or Halloween just because the main protagonist is female.

This whole stir-up pinpoints exactly how SJW's are pretty much just making their own judgments based on their very first impulse and just going from there, rather than stepping back and actually doing a bit of research on their subject or at least giving him or her the benefit of the doubt. They take things out of context and politicize them and repackage them as "fighting for rights." As far as I'm concerned, all of this isn't just to make the world a better place, it's to take personal credit for making that change, for them to have it their way or the highway, regardless of all the backlash they receive. Not only does this inflame the far right, thus giving them even more to complain about down the road, it unfairly vilifies people who are either apolitical or in the middle, not intending to genuinely hurt anybody. James is certainly no activist, but if you actually knew him from his plethora of videos on his site, he's a really easy-going person who can respect just about anybody without making preconceived judgments.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon06/04/16 at 2:22 pm

As you should feel. He didn't say anything wrong, and it's certainly not like he won't watch Alien or Halloween just because the main protagonist is female.

This whole stir-up pinpoints exactly how SJW's are pretty much just making their own judgments based on their very first impulse and just going from there, rather than stepping back and actually doing a bit of research on their subject or at least giving him or her the benefit of the doubt. They take things out of context and politicize them and repackage them as "fighting for rights." As far as I'm concerned, all of this isn't just to make the world a better place, it's to take personal credit for making that change, for them to have it their way or the highway, regardless of all the backlash they receive. Not only does this inflame the far right, thus giving them even more to complain about down the road, it unfairly vilifies people who are either apolitical or in the middle, not intending to genuinely hurt anybody. James is certainly no activist, but if you actually knew him from his plethora of videos on his site, he's a really easy-going person who can respect just about anybody without making preconceived judgments.

This all the way!!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

You guys have your priorities messed up! Say what you want about SJWs, but they're no where near as bad as the alt-right. SJWs are mostly imaginary internet people you guys made up and go out of your way to stalk on Tumblr to piss yourselves off. Alt-right are an actual real thing, they're neo-Nazis that spread hate, racism, and have murdered and physically assaulted racial minorities. You can't even joke about that sh*t. Call me when SJWs are associated with violence and hatred and not blue hair and Starbucks coffee.

No it does not. Don't even go there, it's not the same scale at all.

@Infinity -- I'll try to reply to your post some time this or next week. Busy week up ahead.

Then how come millions of people including famous comedians (like Dave Chapelle), make jokes out of racists, especially white supremacists? Anybody could make jokes out of anything. Even terrible events (*cough* 9/11 *cough*).

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:2001on06/04/16 at 3:08 pm

Being black, being gay, being female, being transgendered, and being any other respective minority are completely different things. A lot of people would envy me for being white and coming from a wealthy family, but I personally envy the vast majority of other people my age for their ability to find love, even without friendly social skills, and that they're highly regarded by their peers even if they're really just sheep.

I’m not implying that they’re the same, I’m just saying that if you belong to any of those groups, if you’re female, if you’re a racial minority or a sexual minority, being called “privileged" would be strange. Whoever accuses anyone belonging to those groups of being privileged better get ready to back themselves up as to why they think that person is privileged.

It's the chronic problem of civilization that has only skyrocketed to new heights this decade. Everything is categorized in black and white terms, while middling is most frequently seen as betrayal or blasphemy rather than prescient support.

If the “middling" is coming from outside groups then I can understand why the reaction to that would be negative. People shouldn’t have to compromise on their god-given rights. That’s why we have words like whitesplain, mansplain etc. It’s nice if people have good intentions, but no one should ever act like they know what’s better for other people better than they do. It can be condescending.

If it’s from inside the group, then that’s different. I think from within a group, you have to recognize you’re all on the same team and have similar goals. In that situation it’s important to listen to everyone’s voice.

Anger and hate are usually intertwined, to be honest. The difference between peaceful activism and confrontational mobbing is that those who practice the former are usually better at coping with their frustration and venting it into productive means.

For the record, most SJW's I know are not the hard-working, circumspect, and diplomatic types that historical activists were. They're just making their own judgments out of impulse and demanding that everybody they come across agrees with them without compromise. They don't look for empathy, and what little consideration they do have for rival institutions is usually biased to fit their own grim worldview.

Well, my opinion is that you can’t control anger. People will naturally feel angry about things, it’s normal. You can’t say someone’s a bad person for about being angry about things like cops getting off scott-free after killing black civilians. They have every right to feel angry. Any hate that results from said anger is problematic, but the problem here is the hate, not the anger.

Not all activists are “hard-working, circumspect and diplomatic”, not even the historical ones. For every MLK, there was a Nelson Mandela, there was a Nina Simone, there were hundreds of people who were more crude and direct in their activist methods. In retrospect, it will look silly if anyone wasted energy on what some random SJW said online and missing the forest for the trees.

You consider shutting down Trump rallies to be something productive? As far as I'm concerned, that's just adding fuel to the already-burning fire. Obviously, Trump supporters are hard to negotiate with, but sabotaging their rallies certainly does nothing to extinguish their vile backlash.

No one is trying to convince Trump supporters, that would be a huge waste of everyone’s time and energy. The point is to get otherwise complacent/uninterested Democrats on their feet and into more activist roles. Organizing protests so large that Trump chooses to not show up to his rallies is one way to get the base energized. As to how it effects Republican voters, there is no proof that it increases Trump support, you can’t vote for someone harder than you already are. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/il/illinois_republican_presidential_primary-4251.html) The very last poll had Trump at 38%, with the poll taken on March 11 before the March 14 protests, he won the Illinois primary with 38.6%, within the margin of error. There is no evidence that the protest increased Trump support.

From what I've gathered, a vast bulk of BLM members have been pretty hateful in the midst of these controversies. Remember the chaos that followed the Michael Brown decision? Even activists in the African American community, plus Michael Brown's parents, were appalled by the destructive behavior that followed the ruling. You can certainly argue that African Americans have a perfect reason to be downright enraged by the unchecked racism plaguing this nation, but one thing's for certain, rioting is not going to bring a peaceful resolution to this ongoing struggle between the oppressed and the oppressor. The only thing it really does is give mandate to conservatives for increased security measures, as is exactly what happened in the late 60s when Nixon was first elected.

While I think the violence in Ferguson was excessive, I don't think anyone (who cares about civil rights) should let that distract from the main point. I don't think the violence occurred in a vacuum either; the police reaction to what was initially peaceful protest was extremely excessive. As for the late 60s, they are over. The game has changed. Whites make up only 60% of the population now, instead of 85%+ or whatever it was in 1968. I don't think we'll see a repeat of history in that regard. The Southern Strategy will be the death kneel of the modern Republican Party.

They're not, but SJW's themselves are still frequently seen as white heterosexual males, even though there is definitely far more ethnic diversity (not behavioral diversity) in that community than Jordan seems to have come across.

Neither would I, and neither would Jordan. You've already seen how hurt I can be by transphobic speech, even though at the same time, I try to think of as diplomatic a solution to the bathroom controversy as possible.

I wasn’t sure whether to post this in the North Carolina thread, because I didn’t want to see you being attacked from two sides, but I don’t think the family restroom solution you proposed is a good idea at all. You either think transgenders are perverts, or you don’t. I happen to think they aren’t, so a “solution" based on the premise that transgenders are perverts completely flies in the face of everything I and many others believe. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, not every transgender undergoes sex-change surgery for a myriad of reasons. I don’t think they should be treated any differently from people who’ve decided to undergo surgery. There’s also the economic fact that you can’t retrofit every public restroom into a family restroom, and the issue of changing rooms in schools is still left unresolved. The solution, despite being a sort of “middle ground”, does not leave the left-wing satisfied. The right might be satisfied since you bought into the “trans people are secret perverts” scare, but I think even they wouldn’t accept the family restroom solution, since you can’t retrofit every restroom. It’s a compromise that doesn’t really leave anyone satisfied.

I do. The former is a pathetic excuse and isn't at all consistent with the nakedly obvious evidence that humans may be naturally gay, even if some identify in the middle of the spectrum of sexuality. The latter point easily goes against the love thy neighbor verse and certainly doesn't account for the mass importation of slaves that occurred during the colonial era, anyway.

Well, I’m not saying they’re right, I’m saying that that’s how they think. They don’t think someone can be naturally gay, someone can choose to live “the gay lifestyle” or they can follow God and get married to the opposite sex etc. Most modern conservatives are against slavery. It’s perfectly non-contradictory to think the races should be separated because God ordained it so, want to “love thy neighbour” by treating them as “separate but equal”, and condemn slavery at the same time.

I actually think that even if Trump wins, his administration will be riddled with obstacles that prevent him from being able to do many things, due to the fact that his institutional political base in Washington and elsewhere is tepid at best. The fact that several prominent Republicans have outright decried him, including previous presidential candidate Mitt Romney, speaks to how splintered the Republican Party of today is and how imminent a realignment is.

I agree that he won’t be able to get much passed, but it’s besides the point. Electing him would still be an endorsement of his racist beliefs and that would energize a lot of racist right-wingers to go even further. America needs to make sure he falls below 40% in November and show that those kind of views are unwelcome. That is the quickest path to realignment without sh*t needing to hit the fans.

I'm certainly no fan of the nihilistic far-right that supports Trump, but yes, the best thing to do is to prove their opinions are unwelcome. This can, however, be achieved more passive-aggressively as opposed to interrupting Trump rallies and grinding their gears even further.

What methods did you have in mind?

There has long been a lot of division within the organization. Many black females criticize the movement for focusing too much on black males victimized by the police, without taking enough consideration of the sexual harassment that occurs at unnatural levels to women in the black community. In one similar example, the creators of the Straight Outta Compton movie were criticized for completely overlooking J.J. Fad in the development of N.W.A., as well as ignoring the domestic violence in Andre Young's family. Others are troubled by the prevailing macho image within the African American community, traditionally formed as a bulwark against brutality but also creating a lot of tension within the community, especially from nerdier, more effeminate, or gay members of the community. Even more, still, are critical of BLM's presentation of African Americans as victims, as opposed to individuals of strong character able to overcome the black freedom struggle by virtue and merit rather than complaining in the streets. Essentially, different people in the black community feel differently about Black Lives Matter, and its social media-driven, numbers-fueled rebellion isn't a universally positive thing for all African Americans.

I would love to give a detailed response to this, but the truth is I’m not too knowledgeable on this subject, so I don't have a coherent opinion.

Even if Trump goes down in embarrassing defeat, there's no reason the Republicans can't bounce back with even more fury, if the aftermath of the McCain loss in 2008 is any indication. What we really need is a full-blown discrediting of the aging institutions that allow for the heinous extremes of the Republican Party to survive. This would actually most likely happen if a Republican became president and then ran an administration of complete and utter disjunction, thus paving the way for the type of sweeping revolution that Bernie Sanders has demanded.

I think we are long overdue for realignment. While Republicans have had an easier time energizing their base during mid-terms since 2010, the truth is that they are kept further and further away from the White House the more they piss off minorities and appeal strictly straight, white males. This formula will not work forever, in fact, hasn’t been working since 2000 (Bush captured a good share of the Latino vote to still lose the popular vote). They might be able to hit back harder during the 2018 mid-terms, but they can’t go in the direction that they are currently going in, or they accelerate their demise. The 2020 election will be interesting to see. If they can’t get their sh*t together by then, then Democrats can win congress in a redistricting election year. Republicans ideals would be dead for multiple generations.

I don't believe in accelerationist theory or in Bernie Sander's "revolution". I think Democrats can win this game without those two.

Then how come millions of people including famous comedians (like Dave Chapelle), make jokes out of racists, especially white supremacists? Anybody could make jokes out of anything. Even terrible events (*cough* 9/11 *cough*).

It's a figure of speech.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Baltimoreianon06/04/16 at 3:44 pm

It's a figure of speech.

Then how come people joke about racism? That's the question.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon06/04/16 at 4:14 pm

I’m not implying that they’re the same, I’m just saying that if you belong to any of those groups, if you’re female, if you’re a racial minority or a sexual minority, being called “privileged" would be strange. Whoever accuses anyone belonging to those groups of being privileged better get ready to back themselves up as to why they think that person is privileged.

Privilege is not a dichotomy, it's a spectrum. There are multiple layers of advantage and disadvantage in society, and it largely varies depending on your aspirations, location, family, etc. I'm definitely more privileged than other transgendered women because I come from a wealthy family and pass well as a woman in public, but I also feel less privileged from a different angle in that I've never been touched in my life before, something even most transgender people I know can claim they have. Similarly, you could just as easily call a straight male WASP somebody disadvantaged just because he lost his father at age 8 or has a broken leg or something. It's certainly nowhere near as great a struggle as being black, gay, female, or transgendered, but fundamentally, it sill adds some level of challenge to his life.

If the “middling" is coming from outside groups then I can understand why the reaction to that would be negative. People shouldn’t have to compromise on their god-given rights. That’s why we have words like whitesplain, mansplain etc. It’s nice if people have good intentions, but no one should ever act like they know what’s better for other people better than they do. It can be condescending.

If it’s from inside the group, then that’s different. I think from within a group, you have to recognize you’re all on the same team and have similar goals. In that situation it’s important to listen to everyone’s voice.

I agree with the latter statement, but not the former. Within the lesbian and transgender communities, my goals are certainly not identical to everybody else's. I differ from a lot of lesbians in that I am proud and highly protective of my femininity, something that other lesbians refute as part of their struggle. Within the transgender community, I don't like even bringing up the fact that I was born male, instead identifying as a lesbian woman first, but a lot of other transgenders embrace their identity as a core part of who they are and want to be positively recognized for it. Me personally, I just want to show that you can be successful and treated respectfully regardless of your background.

Well, my opinion is that you can’t control anger. People will naturally feel angry about things, it’s normal. You can’t say someone’s a bad person for about being angry about things like cops getting off scott-free after killing black civilians. They have every right to feel angry. Any hate that results from said anger is problematic, but the problem here is the hate, not the anger.

I never said they had no right to feel angry about discrimination or not to express it. My point was only that anger can be channeled into positive outlets. That's essentially the meaning of life, that struggle can be turned into something beautiful from person to person.

Not all activists are “hard-working, circumspect and diplomatic”, not even the historical ones. For every MLK, there was a Nelson Mandela, there was a Nina Simone, there were hundreds of people who were more crude and direct in their activist methods. In retrospect, it will look silly if anyone wasted energy on what some random SJW said online and missing the forest for the trees.

But we're not missing the forest for the trees! We know exactly why and that there is so much discrimination in the United States and the rest of the world, and we do not condone it. I would like to repeat that we dislike the Trump movement more than the SJW movement, it's just that we ultimately don't support either because we'd rather see something more diplomatic and level-headed.

No one is trying to convince Trump supporters, that would be a huge waste of everyone’s time and energy. The point is to get otherwise complacent/uninterested Democrats on their feet and into more activist roles. Organizing protests so large that Trump chooses to not show up to his rallies is one way to get the base energized. As to how it effects Republican voters, there is no proof that it increases Trump support, you can’t vote for someone harder than you already are. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/il/illinois_republican_presidential_primary-4251.html) The very last poll had Trump at 38%, with the poll taken on March 11 before the March 14 protests, he won the Illinois primary with 38.6%, within the margin of error. There is no evidence that the protest increased Trump support.

The support/opposition ratio isn't relevant, what matters is that these protest movements that condemn the opposition without an ounce of diplomatic measure, and even if some people are brought over to the progressive-activist camp, you'll still have a huge chunk of people who are pissed off more than ever before and preparing to bounce back with more fury than ever.

That's what happened in the aftermath of the American Civil War; the Radical Republicans punished the former confederate states so hard that it fueled the Ku Klux Klan and other racist movements in those states. It's because of this that Reconstruction ended in 1877, preventing the goal of the Civil War from being achieved and leaving the country just as divided as it was prior, if not even more so. Abraham Lincoln, on the other hand, had a much more moderate and deliberate plan to integrate the South back into the Union, all with an end goal of progress. It's such a shame that he never lived to carry out that plan.

While I think the violence in Ferguson was excessive, I don't think anyone (who cares about civil rights) should let that distract from the main point. I don't think the violence occurred in a vacuum either; the police reaction to what was initially peaceful protest was extremely excessive. As for the late 60s, they are over. The game has changed. Whites make up only 60% of the population now, instead of 85%+ or whatever it was in 1968. I don't think we'll see a repeat of history in that regard. The Southern Strategy will be the death kneel of the modern Republican Party.

I would love to see the end of the modern Republican Party as much as you do, but I also hope that people like me, NewYorkEagle, and Jordan aren't also labeled as bigots just because we don't conform to a single world view. One of my favorite college professors, in his political science course about Iran, pointed to how old establishments were frequently overtaken by rebellions, only for those rebellions to transform into the new evil establishments themselves. I'm sorry, but it's just a given that not everybody within a larger coalition is going to agree with a certain set of laws or values, so some line has to be dawn, and for those whose perspective differs, even if their ultimate wishes are similar, it's not fair if you're left out.

I wasn’t sure whether to post this in the North Carolina thread, because I didn’t want to see you being attacked from two sides, but I don’t think the family restroom solution you proposed is a good idea at all. You either think transgenders are perverts, or you don’t. I happen to think they aren’t, so a “solution" based on the premise that transgenders are perverts completely flies in the face of everything I and many others believe.

Also, correct me if I’m wrong, not every transgender undergoes sex-change surgery for a myriad of reasons. I don’t think they should be treated any differently from people who’ve decided to undergo surgery. There’s also the economic fact that you can’t retrofit every public restroom into a family restroom, and the issue of changing rooms in schools is still left unresolved. The solution, despite being a sort of “middle ground”, does not leave the left-wing satisfied. The right might be satisfied since you bought into the “trans people are secret perverts” scare, but I think even they wouldn’t accept the family restroom solution, since you can’t retrofit every restroom. It’s a compromise that doesn’t really leave anyone satisfied.

There goes your black and white way of thinking, once again, prejudging a solution based on a rigid dichotomy just because it's not identical to what you have in mind.

The last thing I'm going to call genuine transgenders is perverts, I think you already know that. It's the fakes, the cis males dressing up as women just to get it on who are perverted. In a perfect world, I wish that all people could use the restroom of their choice, regardless of where they identify on the gender spectrum. However, this is politics, not idealism. You simply can't demand all of society to open gender-neutral restrooms everywhere across the nation when transgender issues are still new to the mainstream and not everybody understands the nature of it. I only seek for this compromise because it's a stepping stone, to allow people from the transgender community to safely use the restroom while also giving everybody more time to digest the transgender movement, eventually coming to support it. Civil rights movements can make a lot of progress, but usually it's over a long course of time, and to go too fast is ultimately detrimental to the final goal.

Of course not every transgender person undergoes surgery, but that's not what I feel should be a prerequisite for them to enter the bathroom of their choice. The only case in which I feel it may be wiser to use either your biological restroom or the gender-neutral one is if you clearly don't pass as your desired gender, usually the result of being too early in your transition (I certainly didn't pass during the early months of my transition). Of course, since this can still be hard for a lot of people, it's not the ending point, but again, civil rights movements have to be treated fourth-dimensionally. Eventually, we will get to the point when even non-passing transgenders will cause little to no stir upon entering the restroom of their choice, but right now, we're still teaching the world about what it means to be transgendered and what the struggles are that come with it.

Well, I’m not saying they’re right, I’m saying that that’s how they think. They don’t think someone can be naturally gay, someone can choose to live “the gay lifestyle” or they can follow God and get married to the opposite sex etc. Most modern conservatives are against slavery. It’s perfectly non-contradictory to think the races should be separated because God ordained it so, want to “love thy neighbour” by treating them as “separate but equal”, and condemn slavery at the same time.

Yeah, they definitely come up with ridiculous excuses whenever they can. But "God's way" isn't even consistent, depending upon your interpretation of the Bible. It's basically the reason why there are so many different denominations of Christianity, as there have been for several centuries.

I agree that he won’t be able to get much passed, but it’s besides the point. Electing him would still be an endorsement of his racist beliefs and that would energize a lot of racist right-wingers to go even further. America needs to make sure he falls below 40% in November and show that those kind of views are unwelcome. That is the quickest path to realignment without sh*t needing to hit the fans.

If he does win, or if Hillary becomes President, then it'll boil the current atmosphere that much closer to revolution. There will be enough polarization that traditional political institutions will collapse and new ones will emerge in their place.

What methods did you have in mind?

I don't know, have you seen Gandhi? Pretty much just trying to make peaceful conversation with the opposition, even after they start spitting in your face. It's this tenacity that ultimately counts. Conservatives will eventually grow exhausted by their usual arguments, seeing how unprovocative they are, and hopefully, just maybe some of them with come to understand coexistence.

I saw this music video on MTV back in the mid-2000s, and it perfectly illustrates how I personally wish the current situation would play out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PScUdYTO0UM

This video always stuck with me, even though I originally watched it over a decade ago. To be fair, in some cases, what the protagonist is doing would put him in danger, but you can't deny the beautiful, unflinching courage presented here.

I would love to give a detailed response to this, but the truth is I’m not too knowledgeable on this subject, so I don't have a coherent opinion.

It's a pretty challenging subject to tackle. The only reason I'm willing to talk about it at great length in this day and age is because I took a course about the black freedom struggle, which both made me aware of boundaries I had to recognize that I previously overlooked, but also deeply outlined the divisions within the African American community, and how different visions can lead to different movements, creating a lot of tension that has to be expertly negotiated around.

I think we are long overdue for realignment. While Republicans have had an easier time energizing their base during mid-terms since 2010, the truth is that they are kept further and further away from the White House the more they piss off minorities and appeal strictly straight, white males. This formula will not work forever, in fact, hasn’t been working since 2000 (Bush captured a good share of the Latino vote to still lose the popular vote). They might be able to hit back harder during the 2018 mid-terms, but they can’t go in the direction that they are currently going in, or they accelerate their demise. The 2020 election will be interesting to see. If they can’t get their sh*t together by then, then Democrats can win congress in a redistricting election year. Republicans ideals would be dead for multiple generations.

I'm definitely looking forward to a realignment. Frankly, it's these outdated institutions, which even now moderate Republicans are criticizing, that legitimately brew the heated conflicts of the mid-2010s in the first place.

I don't believe in accelerationist theory or in Bernie Sander's "revolution". I think Democrats can win this game without those two.

Well, even if Bernie Sanders won the nomination and defeated Trump in a landslide, the bitter opposition would remain intact, thus closing off the area that Sanders needs to deliver upon his platform.

I'm sorry if I came across scolding or condescending, because I definitely admire the time and thought you put into your arguments, and like I touched upon before, I enjoy having a friendly rivalry with somebody, since it encourages the exchange of ideas. I will admit to having a political science degree from a prestigious liberal arts college, but I don't want to use that simply to feel superior to others, because if there's one thing I learned from my education, it's that you absolutely have to take every individual's opinion seriously, or at least seek to understand others before you judge them.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on06/04/16 at 9:09 pm

You saw people with My Little Pony hair?? I met a dude a few days ago who dyes his hair blue, but you told me that you do that too. He's a blink-182 fan too, but he was wearing the t-shirt for the self-titled.

Yeah, red pillers are people who think they know what women really want (subjection and being put in their place), unlike blue pillers who give women what they say they want (kindness and respect?).

Aren't Nu Males supposed to be cuckolded SJWs who defend women but never get laid in return :P I have a couple of lady fans but I defend them out of the benevolence of my heart. 8)

I think I remember him saying he was born 1990, and that he was a mid-2000s teen.

All the big cities are super poor? Well, Hamilton is the poorest of the super poor! Everyone makes mean jokes about us >:( We had it tough. I searched for coal in the gutter for our fire in the winter, I had to poop in the outhouse, the kids who had electric lighting were the spoilt ones, I had to carry the water from the well down the hill, travelling to Toronto took a week on my horse and buggy. And you're calling me a trust fund kid!

Lol we're opposites on that one. I was obsessed with coupons when I was a teen, and I opened my retirement savings account when I was 20 ;D

Sad! No wonder you hate 2004. You must've had no friends after that comment. >:(

Whoops. My old postal codes were close to "L8W 2X2" for Hamilton (childhood) and "M4C 4G5" for Toronto (teen).

I used to do that. Nowadays, I'll either leave it or bleach it (my hair is dirty blonde is it's not that big of a difference). You kids today, you guys don't know how to dye your hair. It was better when people my age were doing it because we did it the right way after climbing 600ft mountains of snow (California snowed before 2004). He's likes the untitled? Maannn... Give the guy Dude Ranch and tell him to give it a real good listen. The classics of the 90's and early 00s! 8)

So that's what women want? Well, they should speak to my wife 'cause she doesn't like being put in her place and she prefers to take charge. But I guess it's time for a change! I need to give her (as a woman, of course) what women truly want! Oh she will love it!

Well, yeah, you don't even like chicks. :P I still think of Nu Metal kids when I think of Nu Males. "Cuckolding" is an essential key to making Nu Metal music so it kind of goes together but "respect for women" is something you gotta leave at home if you wanna rap like Fred Durst.

Yeah, I didn't know this. He's a lot older than I thought!

I grew up in a nice comfy suburb. My only worries growing up were whether it would rain (Bay Area can have some requent rain), if I had enough money for Tacos and if I could get laid. You're still a trust fund kid, however.

You guys have your priorities messed up! Say what you want about SJWs, but they're no where near as bad as the alt-right. SJWs are mostly imaginary internet people you guys made up and go out of your way to stalk on Tumblr to piss yourselves off. Alt-right are an actual real thing, they're neo-Nazis that spread hate, racism, and have murdered and physically assaulted racial minorities. You can't even joke about that sh*t. Call me when SJWs are associated with violence and hatred and not blue hair and Starbucks coffee.

No it does not. Don't even go there, it's not the same scale at all.

@Infinity -- I'll try to reply to your post some time this or next week. Busy week up ahead.

I don't stalk tumblr, though. I've encountered both these people in real life and, sh!t, I've met big Neo Nazi skinheads in the flesh (this was in the 90's, however. It's been 20 years since I've met any) and they're just as unpleasant as each other. They're rude boneheads who only think of themselves and their kind (whatever that may be). The difference? SJW's aren't big enough to threaten you with violence (unless it's online where they don't hold back) but I wouldn't put it past them if they tried throwing their coffee at someone for saying something they disagree with. Very toxic groups of people, both of them.

You know, I witnessed a SJW try and get someone fired because of a joke he made. It wasn't a phobic joke of any kind (it did, however, attack the ultra-PC climate of today) but the SJW took it the wrong way, did some googling to find his workplace, got her goons together and decided they were gonna contact his bosses and make sh!t up but not before yelling and screaming at him for being a bigot.

Oh, by the way, Jordan, I'm sure you'll love this just as much as I did, but apparently, James Rolfe has been mercilessly attacked via Twitter because he stated he won't see or review the upcoming Ghostbusters movie. SJW's are basically calling him a misogynst just because the new movie has an all-female cast, even though he never even referred to the gender as being a problem; he was more turned off by the special effects and the trailer's lack of faithfulness to the original Ghostbusters universe.

Besides, c'mon, he's not sexist. (I would also refer to the end of his review of Custer's Revenge from episode 32, but I don't feel like linking to something that explicit on this board)

In a nutshell, are we obligated to like any piece of media that primarily features minorities, regardless of their objective quality? You know, backwards discrimination? Because that's exactly what SJW's are promoting.

I'm with James. As I said in another thread on here, it's gonna be awful but that absolutely has nothing to do with the female leads. As you said, why would he watch Alien if he had a problem with it? I love the (first two...) Alien movies myself and I have no problem with Ellen Ripley. She is an incredible lead and one of my favorites. If someone came and f*cked it up (again, like they did in the 90s) for the 2010's, I'd be just as upset. I grew up with the Ghostbuster movies, like James, and I had the same disappointment when watching the trailer. It's a stupid, cheaply thrown together movie made for the social media generation to eat up like the turds they are. The creativity of the originals are gone. I hated the Robocop remake as well. Women leads won't change this.

As we see from the article and it's screenshots, SJW's are a very immature bunch of people who have no social skills or self-awareness. What the hell is this "male tears" sh!t? Is this how we deal with issues nowadays? With playground name calling?? Also, a lot of white males (one's who use the term "male tears" I might add) and females.

As you should feel. He didn't say anything wrong, and it's certainly not like he won't watch Alien or Halloween just because the main protagonist is female.

This whole stir-up pinpoints exactly how SJW's are pretty much just making their own judgments based on their very first impulse and just going from there, rather than stepping back and actually doing a bit of research on their subject or at least giving him or her the benefit of the doubt. They take things out of context and politicize them and repackage them as "fighting for rights." As far as I'm concerned, all of this isn't just to make the world a better place, it's to take personal credit for making that change, for them to have it their way or the highway, regardless of all the backlash they receive. Not only does this inflame the far right, thus giving them even more to complain about down the road, it unfairly vilifies people who are either apolitical or in the middle, not intending to genuinely hurt anybody. James is certainly no activist, but if you actually knew him from his plethora of videos on his site, he's a really easy-going person who can respect just about anybody without making preconceived judgments.

Exactly. I agree with every post you've made in this thread. I have no problem with anybody who just wants to be seen as a human being I have a problem with the internet-addict turds who use other people's sexuality and identities to stroke their own egos and pat themselves on the back for being "activists". Yes, yes, posting some stupid meme of tumblr while you color your hair blue is a terrific way to bring about social change!

I found this video for a good laugh:

IKx13jcs5pE

It's funny how he "sings" about people being stuck in their little "internet bubble" yet that's one of the biggest SJW traits.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Slim95on06/04/16 at 11:55 pm

Sometimes it feels like people hating on SJWs is an excuse by conservatives to stop change an remain racist, sexist, etc. I really feel like there is a big majority of people who do that and then make up things about SJWs to shed negative light on them.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Zelek2on06/04/16 at 11:57 pm

I do find it rather ironic how Internet "alt righters" often go around tell someone to kill themselves, but then if a liberal commentator tells the alt-righter to kill themselves, the alt right guy will often respond with "Wow, so progressive and tolerant!"

Then again, everyone on the Internet is a hypocrite, heh.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on06/05/16 at 12:15 am

Sometimes it feels like people hating on SJWs is an excuse by conservatives to stop change an remain racist, sexist, etc. I really feel like there is a big majority of people who do that and then make up things about SJWs to shed negative light on them.

So people who don't like SJWs are just racist, sexist conservatives? If this is true, does that mean in order to be accepting of others you have to be a computer-addicted, armchair slacktivist who's a self-righteous, immature blowhard with half a brain? Are equal right represented only by those who only care about themselves and use other people and their struggles to stroke their own egos and build themselves up for the moral high ground? That doesn't make any sense.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Slim95on06/05/16 at 12:17 am

So people who don't like SJWs are just racist, sexist conservatives? If this is true, does that mean in order to be accepting of others you have to be a computer-addicted, armchair slacktivist who's a self-righteous, immature blowhard with half a brain? Are equal right represented only by those who only care about themselves and use other people and their struggles to stroke their own egos and build themselves up for the moral high ground? That doesn't make any sense.

I just said that's the general reason from where the hate started. I didn't say all people are like that. I think it started for that reason, then eventually the masses got brainwashed into thinking social justice is wrong because of these conservatives. So the racists painted the negative image for SJWs and now everyone is following along.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on06/05/16 at 12:21 am

I just said that's the general reason. I didn't say all people are. I think it started for this reason, then eventually the masses got brainwashed into thinking social justice is wrong because of these conservatives.

But this isn't about social justice itself. People getting their rights is fine. It's about the slacktivists who use social justice and the rights of gays/women/non-whites to pat themselves on the back and make themselves feel good on their special moral high ground (which is selfish. They don't care about anybody but themselves). A SJW isn't synonymous with a person who's for equal rights, in fact, I'd argue they're the exact opposite of that.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Slim95on06/05/16 at 12:25 am

But this isn't about social justice itself. People getting their rights is fine. It's about the slacktivists who use social justice and the rights of gays/women/non-whites to pat themselves on the back and make themselves feel good on their special moral high ground (which is selfish. They don't care about anybody but themselves). A SJW isn't synonymous with a person who's for equal rights, in fact, I'd argue they're the exact opposite of that.

The thing is, you negatively call these people who are fighting for those rights SJWs because that picture is painted into your mind. While the people may just want to fight for rights, but society has masked this by trying to make you believe SJWs are evil and not doing it in good intention. To prove my point, have you ever met an SJW that you described in your post in real life? Probably not.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on06/05/16 at 12:32 am

The thing is, you negatively call these people who are fighting for those rights SJWs because that picture is painted into your mind. While the people may just want to fight for rights, but society has masked this by trying to make you believe SJWs are evil and not doing it in good intention. To prove my point, have you ever met an SJW that you described in your post in real life? Probably not.

Yes, that's just the picture I've painted in my mind. Nothing more, nothing less. The reason I think this way about SJWs is not because of what I've encountered but because the evil media has brainwashed me to hate equal rights! Yeah, right, I've never met someone like this in real life before. Nope, not one bit. Bet your house on it.

I don't know if you've noticed but me, Infinity and New York Eagle have all brought up points about the exact same things: SJW's immature attitudes and their selfish, attention seeking ways which trivialize the rights of those who have actually struggled and just want to live normal lives. Not once did we say to halt the progress of equal rights or that we're against people who aren't straight and white. Your point doesn't make any sense; none of us here are against those things nor do we have the interest of denying anyone's rights. I didn't know being against slacktivism was synonymous with being against equal rights. So, even though the three of us (me, Infinity and New York Eagle) all for and fully accepting of equal rights, we're still brainwashed by the media for being disgusted with SJWs and their attitudes?

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Slim95on06/05/16 at 12:57 am

Yes, that's just the picture I've painted in my mind. Nothing more, nothing less. The reason I think this way about SJWs is not because of what I've encountered but because the evil media has brainwashed me to hate equal rights! Yeah, right, I've never met someone like this in real life before. Nope, not one bit. Bet your house on it.

I don't know if you've noticed but me, Infinity and New York Eagle have all brought up points about the exact same things: SJW's immature attitudes and their selfish, attention seeking ways which trivialize the rights of those who have actually struggled and just want to live normal lives. Not once did we say to halt the progress of equal rights or that we're against people who aren't straight and white. Your point doesn't make any sense; none of us here are against those things nor do we have the interest of denying anyone's rights. I didn't know being against slacktivism was synonymous with being against equal rights. So, even though the three of us (me, Infinity and New York Eagle) all for and fully accepting of equal rights, we're still brainwashed by the media for being disgusted with SJWs and their attitudes?

Okay but have you actually met an SJW who acts that way in real life? I've only heard stories of them online. Never even met one. Which makes me think "SJW" is all made up.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon06/06/16 at 7:47 pm

Okay but have you actually met an SJW who acts that way in real life? I've only heard stories of them online. Never even met one. Which makes me think "SJW" is all made up.

I can speak for myself when I say I indeed have met arrogant, selfish SJW's in real life, and the difference between those guys and more unpretentious progressives is really obvious. To list a few examples:

* Somebody who, during the Bill Cosby scandal in late 2014, told me I wrote the most racist thing he'd ever read and that I should go f*** myself. All that I said was that I thought it was so unfortunate that an iconic figure in black history, critical in bringing Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to life, was now revealed to be corrupt and immoral. He called me racist because he thought it was wrong for Bill Cosby to have to teach modern African Americans the right way of conduct. Granted, this was all before I took my black freedom struggle course and had a truly educated understanding of racism and African American culture, and I can now see why some people wouldn't be happy with my original perspective, but I still think this SJW made a ridiculous overreaction.

* The leader of an LGBT support group, who spoke really condescendingly of the outskirts of San Diego that weren't around the liberal Balboa Park area, even in front of people who lived in those outer communities.

* Several Facebook friends, who link to and complain about some article pretty much every single day, even in the aftermath of tragedy. It makes sense to draw attention to certain issues that people aren't aware of, but usually, these people whine about the exact same topic over and over and over again. One person, in particular, angrily linked to rape culture feminist articles at least once a day. Thus, the same few people, who were Facebook friends with her, had to be exposed to the same complaints on a constant basis. These posts were jack hammered onto my news feed so much that I ultimately unfollowed this person.

* Pretty much the vast majority of lesbians I've met, who almost always have tattoos, piercings, are obsessed with dogs to a ridiculous extreme, watch shows like The L Word and Orange Is the New Black, live only in urban bubbles, go to bars, and think in completely black and white terms without any level of empathy. They claim to be fighting for the rights of other queers, but whenever I'm in their company, I feel completely neglected, insignificant, and unwelcome.

* Somebody so politically correct that they would constantly interrupt conversations just so they wouldn't be offended. Even if you were hurting yourself, this person made it seem like their problems were the only ones that should be recognized.

This is all just in addition to the example I listed earlier, in which a bunch of SJW's attacked James Rolfe, an extremely decent man by all accounts, for not wanting to watch the new Ghostbusters.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on06/07/16 at 12:16 am

Okay but have you actually met an SJW who acts that way in real life? I've only heard stories of them online. Never even met one. Which makes me think "SJW" is all made up.

This was a while back but I remember that I was in a record store once and I was talking to this dude because we were both in the punk section looking at some similar records. I think I picked up some Propagandhi record (they're extremely political. Very left wing. I don't agree with all their views but I like their first two albums) and the guy started going on about how great their politics are. That was fine but then turned the conversation onto him and how he contributes to social justice by reblogging sh!t on Facebook or whatever. I asked him "how does that actually help their rights? Is that all you do?" or something similar and one thing led to another and he started freaking out at me and calling me a bigoted f*ckface and all that good fun.

Other times were, like I said above, was on this site where the SJWs who plotted to get this guy fired from his job because they interpreted his joke as offensive. I watched the entire situation unfold and not once did the SJWs find some composure and intelligently lay out their argument. What did they do? "omg fuk u cistears lol male oppression FUK U FUK U FUK FUK U." One guy questioned them and asked why they couldn't use some more coherent grammar. He was met with "language is fliud u fuker fuk u." No joke, dude. There was also this other time a while ago where I went out with some of my friends and this dude my friend knows comes along (I already knew he was pretty strong on the liberal side before this but after a few more times meeting him, he's a certified SJW) and he started talking about how he had sh!t like OCD, ADHD, blah, blah, blah and pointed out that he's "self-diagnosed". Now, I've got ADHD and it's something I've had to deal with all my life. I was properly diagnosed and over the years, seeing doctors and talking about my options, it's helped me a whole lot in finding solutions to being able to function better. I said something like "I strongly suggest you go see a doctor. Self-diagnosing is super harmful, dude, you won't get the proper treatments that are right for you" and I told him about my experiences and how they helped me out. This moron ended up yelling about how the medical system is corrupt, oppressive and how people don't doctors to tell them what's wrong with them. People like this are more concerned with using mental illness as something that's "lolunique" rather than to bring awareness to it.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Zelek2on06/07/16 at 12:37 am

Hey Jordan, how do you feel about this metaphor for the "lame 00s" that I came up with?

http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=53736.msg3435529#msg3435529

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:#Infinityon06/07/16 at 5:54 pm

Other times were, like I said above, was on this site where the SJWs who plotted to get this guy fired from his job because they interpreted his joke as offensive. I watched the entire situation unfold and not once did the SJWs find some composure and intelligently lay out their argument. What did they do? "omg fuk u cistears lol male oppression FUK U FUK U FUK FUK U." One guy questioned them and asked why they couldn't use some more coherent grammar. He was met with "language is fliud u fuker fuk u." No joke, dude. There was also this other time a while ago where I went out with some of my friends and this dude my friend knows comes along (I already knew he was pretty strong on the liberal side before this but after a few more times meeting him, he's a certified SJW) and he started talking about how he had sh!t like OCD, ADHD, blah, blah, blah and pointed out that he's "self-diagnosed". Now, I've got ADHD and it's something I've had to deal with all my life. I was properly diagnosed and over the years, seeing doctors and talking about my options, it's helped me a whole lot in finding solutions to being able to function better. I said something like "I strongly suggest you go see a doctor. Self-diagnosing is super harmful, dude, you won't get the proper treatments that are right for you" and I told him about my experiences and how they helped me out. This moron ended up yelling about how the medical system is corrupt, oppressive and how people don't doctors to tell them what's wrong with them. People like this are more concerned with using mental illness as something that's "lolunique" rather than to bring awareness to it.

I get that people don't want mental conditions to be treated as automatically negative things, but they should at least be able to understand them and overcome the challenges they pose. If you don't personally want to see a doctor to handle your OCD, ADHD, or whatever, then fine, be yourself, but don't scold those who do in fact prefer to get medical assistance!

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on06/07/16 at 9:21 pm

I get that people don't want mental conditions to be treated as automatically negative things, but they should at least be able to understand them and overcome the challenges they pose. If you don't personally want to see a doctor to handle your OCD, ADHD, or whatever, then fine, be yourself, but don't scold those who do in fact prefer to get medical assistance!

Thank you! I always try to help people out when I hear about that kinda thing and I'll always share my experiences to help him out and bring better understanding to the subject but then there's this douche and he's giving me sh!t for nothing. I totally see how others can find alternative ways for help without medical assistance/a doctor and that's cool but if you just realize you have a problem it's always good to look at your options and talk to other people, especially doctors (who, you know, just so happen to be professionals). Self-diagnosing is so dangerous, too.

Hey Jordan, how do you feel about this metaphor for the "lame 00s" that I came up with?

http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=53736.msg3435529#msg3435529

Most excellent! ;) Everything got super lame after 2003.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:Zelek2on06/07/16 at 9:59 pm

I know a cartoon bird losing his varsity jacket and skates is perhaps a bit of an odd/obscure metaphor, but it all makes sense when you think about it! Especially the fact that it happened in 2004 (the moment the Y2K era ended).

A cool late 90s/early 00s character, reduced to a lamer mid 00s character.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on06/09/16 at 5:40 am

Yeah, once the real 2000's took off things got super lame. It's like how Sum 41, for example, wore skate clothes in 2001 but in 2004 they were dressing like Myspace dorks.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:KatanaChickon06/09/16 at 8:53 am

This was a while back but I remember that I was in a record store once and I was talking to this dude because we were both in the punk section looking at some similar records. I think I picked up some Propagandhi record (they're extremely political. Very left wing. I don't agree with all their views but I like their first two albums) and the guy started going on about how great their politics are. That was fine but then turned the conversation onto him and how he contributes to social justice by reblogging sh!t on Facebook or whatever. I asked him "how does that actually help their rights? Is that all you do?" or something similar and one thing led to another and he started freaking out at me and calling me a bigoted f*ckface and all that good fun.

Other times were, like I said above, was on this site where the SJWs who plotted to get this guy fired from his job because they interpreted his joke as offensive. I watched the entire situation unfold and not once did the SJWs find some composure and intelligently lay out their argument. What did they do? "omg fuk u cistears lol male oppression FUK U FUK U FUK FUK U." One guy questioned them and asked why they couldn't use some more coherent grammar. He was met with "language is fliud u fuker fuk u." No joke, dude. There was also this other time a while ago where I went out with some of my friends and this dude my friend knows comes along (I already knew he was pretty strong on the liberal side before this but after a few more times meeting him, he's a certified SJW) and he started talking about how he had sh!t like OCD, ADHD, blah, blah, blah and pointed out that he's "self-diagnosed". Now, I've got ADHD and it's something I've had to deal with all my life. I was properly diagnosed and over the years, seeing doctors and talking about my options, it's helped me a whole lot in finding solutions to being able to function better. I said something like "I strongly suggest you go see a doctor. Self-diagnosing is super harmful, dude, you won't get the proper treatments that are right for you" and I told him about my experiences and how they helped me out. This moron ended up yelling about how the medical system is corrupt, oppressive and how people don't doctors to tell them what's wrong with them. People like this are more concerned with using mental illness as something that's "lolunique" rather than to bring awareness to it.

It would have taken all I had to refrain from slapping that guy! A WebMD research does NOT make you more knowledgeable and qualified than a medical professional who went for years of schooling! Most people with a condition tend to not blab it to the entire world as mental health matters are still stigmatized. I know what it's like to have struggled in school and general life and also the lovely side effects pills can have.

As for reblogging social justice on websites, your page do what you will. Still, awareness is useless when you can't force anyone to care, and a really passive method.

Subject:Re: I dislike the early '00s

Written By:JordanK1982on06/09/16 at 10:32 pm

It would have taken all I had to refrain from slapping that guy! A WebMD research does NOT make you more knowledgeable and qualified than a medical professional who went for years of schooling! Most people with a condition tend to not blab it to the entire world as mental health matters are still stigmatized. I know what it's like to have struggled in school and general life and also the lovely side effects pills can have.

As for reblogging social justice on websites, your page do what you will. Still, awareness is useless when you can't force anyone to care, and a really passive method.

Exactly my point. If someone really has a problem and is just looking for help, I have no problems, but I absolutely can't stand when someone wants to brag about their "conditions" so they seem more "unique". It's the worst and I wish they'd open their eyes and realize they look like complete jackasses. I've been there too and struggling with those kinda things are most definitely not fun.

Yeah, that lazy slacktivism garbage. "Well, I reblogged it on my page, I'm doing my part!" In reality, they only care about their image; how their "followers" perceive them as.