Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Considering elections tend to be decided by a handful of states, that implies most people are fairly comfortably settled one way or the other.

They're settled in their own ideology, but that ideology is rarely fully covered by one of the 2 major parties. Roughly 40% of US voters inhabit the center of American politics, with 30% on the Right and 30% on the Left.

As for you, you know I have my doubts about your purported centrism.

I'm not centrist in all my views, in fact most are either far Left or far Right, but they average out to the center (barely right of center). Some of my social views are actually (much) more liberal than your own. Ex. 100% legalization of all recreational drugs and internationally recognized personhood for all sentient beings, esp. higher primates and more advanced marine mammals.

It feels weird to disagree with someone about their own political belief but I've cited the evidence before, seems pointless to do so again.

Then don't, because you'd still be wrong.

What I find most interesting is your desire to be thought of as more centrist than your views seem to be. I think you used to be more centrist but you've been swerving rightwards for years now.

Nope, I've taken the political compass test for decades and remained roughly the same, if anything you have pulled hard to the Left and become much more aggressive about it.

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr

I'm not centrist in all my views, in fact most are either far Left or far Right, but they average out to the center (barely right of center).

We aren't so far apart in our opinions of you then.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

Some of my social views are actually (much) more liberal than your own. Ex. 100% legalization of all recreational drugs and internationally recognized personhood for all sentient beings, esp. higher primates and more advanced marine mammals.

I don't think I'd legalise Heroin and possibly not Meth either but I'd certainly be open to the idea with pretty much anything else. I'd decriminalise everything like Portugal has.
I've never even thought about legal personhood for any animals. Is that an animal welfare motivated stance? No more captives of certain species? What about for conservation rather than entertainment?
It would be hellishly difficult collecting all the tax returns from the Dolphins.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

Nope, I've taken the political compass test for decades and remained roughly the same, if anything you have pulled hard to the Left and become much more aggressive about it.

No-one here tends to really argue with my more central opinions so I don't tend to have to defend them very often.

I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....

During her night in jail, Plascencia said a deputy asked her to sign documents acknowledging that officials with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had inquired about her.

“Why?” Plascencia asked. “I’m an American citizen.”

Confused and scared, Plascencia did as she was asked, assuring herself that the entire ordeal was a mistake that would soon be cleared up.

But as she tried to leave the West Valley Detention Center in Rancho Cucamonga, Plascencia said she was met by immigration enforcement agents, handcuffed and placed in the back of a van.

Plascencia was eventually released after her daughter showed ICE agents her passport. But now she has taken the first step toward filing a lawsuit against the federal immigration agency and the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department in a case that raises issues of how an American citizen wound up in the custody of immigration enforcement agents.

It’s unclear how many hours Plascencia was detained by federal authorities, but she insists she repeatedly asserted her citizenship to deputies and ICE agents. She also says she presented a valid California driver’s license when she was arrested.

“ICE would never knowingly take enforcement action against or detain an individual if there was evidence indicating the person was a U.S. citizen. Should such information come to light, the agency will take immediate action to address the matter,” the statement read.

Wong contends that sheriff’s deputies intentionally delayed Plascencia’s release in order to allow ICE agents time to arrive and detain her.

It's in the article. She had a warrant because she failed to be a witness in her son's trial.

The arrest that sparked Plascencia’s detention by ICE is connected to a 2007 court case involving her son, Eric Mercado, that was ultimately dismissed, court records show.

It started when Plascencia visited the Ontario Police Department in March to recover a gun, which she legally owns, that had been seized after her daughter was involved in a car accident last year. As she waited in the police station, officers told her she was going to be arrested on a warrant. Court records indicate a bench warrant was issued for Plascencia after she failed to testify in the 2007 case.

I think ICE needs to update their database. Probably they weren't aware she got her citizenship 20 years ago.

Under President Donald Trump, government prosecutors' discretion to defer deportation of immigrants has largely been abolished, according to February - June immigration court data released Tuesday by the non-profit Transactional Access Records Clearinghouse.

Under previous administrations, it was more common for immigrants with U.S. citizen wives or minor children or with other special circumstances to reach deals.

During the first five months of the Trump administration, the number of immigrants whose deportation cases were closed via prosecutorial discretion dropped to less than 100 per month, compared to about 2,400 per month during the same period in 2016.

During the campaign, many rank-and-file agents publicly cheered Trump’s pledge to deport more immigrants, and, since Inauguration Day, the Administration has explicitly encouraged them to pursue the undocumented as aggressively as possible. “We’re going to get sued,” the agent told me at one point. “You have guys who are doing whatever they want in the field, going after whoever they want.”

…

“We used to look at things through the totality of the circumstances when it came to a removal order—that’s out the window,” the agent told me the other day. “I don’t know that there’s that appreciation of the entire realm of what we’re doing. It’s not just the person we’re removing. It’s their entire family. People say, ‘Well, they put themselves in this position because they came illegally.’ I totally understand that. But you have to remember that our job is not to judge. The problem is that now there are lots of people who feel free to feel contempt.”

…

Yet with Obama gone, and the era of micromanagement over, the agent sees long-standing standards being discarded and basic protocols questioned. “I have officers who are more likely now to push back,” the agent said. “I’d never have someone say, ‘Why do I have to call an interpreter? Why don’t they speak English?’ Now I get it frequently. I get this from people who are younger. That’s one group. And I also get it from people who are ethnocentric: ‘Our way is the right way—I shouldn’t have to speak in your language. This is America.’ ” It all adds up, the agent said, “to contempt that I’ve never seen so rampant towards the aliens.”

Obviously just one employee's observations that seem to line up with my perception.

Yet more irony, as trump makes laws for legal immigrants stricter, requiring higher education/job skills, he also has Trump properties etc requesting special permits for immigrants needed for cleaning staff.

What's so bad about bringing this up to other countries' standards? You sure as heck can't just immigrate to Switzerland w/o a higher education and marketable skills. Or Norway, or Belgium, and certainly not Japan.

As for Trump wanting to slip by requirements w/ his properties, which certainly has a bad look, that sounds a lot like celebs on the Left. You know, the ones (like John Oliver, ironically) who complain about taxes not being high enough, but use every loophole they can find to dodge paying any. http://observer.com/2017/05/john-oli...ax-scam-trump/

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr

The higher standards might make sense, in a different context. Right now the Trump administration attitude toward immigrants is toxic.

As for taxes, I care more about the president's behavior than any other "celebrity." Glad to see you think it looks bad for him importing immigrants. We can see Oliver's taxes, can we see the president's?

I believe I've heard you argue before that there's nothing wrong with taking advantage of legal loopholes. Is that only for trump? Until the tax laws change, why can't Oliver, or whoever, use the loopholes? Shall we look at Ted Nugent's taxes?

The higher standards might make sense, in a different context. Right now the Trump administration attitude toward immigrants is toxic.

You perception is it's toxic, strip out the media rhetoric and hit pieces and it makes a lot more sense. The wall is stupid, a lot of the other things he wants to try are stupid, this part of his proposed policy isn't and would fly with the MSM if anyone else proposed it.

As for taxes, I care more about the president's behavior than any other "celebrity." Glad to see you think it looks bad for him importing immigrants. We can see Oliver's taxes, can we see the president's?

We can see John Oliver's taxes? Really? I looked, thinking that was a PR stunt he pulled, but I can't find them. It's just "ironic" that the people who criticize Trump the most are the ones who often are doing the shadiest shit themselves.

I believe I've heard you argue before that there's nothing wrong with taking advantage of legal loopholes.

I have not. I don't use tax or legal loopholes, and that means I probably pay more in taxes than I should, much to my accountant's irritation. I personally hold myself to a much higher standard than what I expect from others.

Stop trying to derail/displace/distract.

This is why it's hard to have discussions with mods, you don't know if this is a threat or not.

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr

That's a whole lot of gumballs. TL;DR: Increasing immigration doesn't help, it's a drop in the bucket. In fact, along with frequently taking jobs from a host country's poorest people, it cripples the countries those immigrants are leaving, because you're usually taking the best and brightest away from populations who need them most.

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr

Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?

Status:
Offline

Aug 28, 2017, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

That's a whole lot of gumballs. TL;DR: Increasing immigration doesn't help, it's a drop in the bucket. In fact, along with frequently taking jobs from a host country's poorest people, it cripples the countries those immigrants are leaving, because you're usually taking the best and brightest away from populations who need them most.

Wait...the best and brightest of one country are taking jobs away from another country's poorest people?

All of those Indian doctors are over here stealing janitorial and produce-picking jobs?

Lukasz Niec was 5 years old when his parents brought him and his sister to the United States from Poland. With two suitcases in tow, his parents — both doctors — left behind a country on the verge of social turmoil. It was 1979, about two years before the country’s authoritarian communist government declared martial law.

Niec received a temporary green card and, in 1989, became a lawful permanent resident. He grew up in Michigan, went to medical school, became a doctor, and raised a daughter and stepdaughter.

According to his “notice to appear” from the Department of Homeland Security, Niec’s detention stems from two misdemeanor convictions from 26 years ago. In January 1992, Niec was convicted of malicious destruction of property under $100. In April of that year, he was convicted of receiving and concealing stolen property over $100 and a financial transaction device.

Because Niec was convicted of two crimes involving “moral turpitude,” stemming from two separate incidents, he is subject to removal, immigration authorities wrote in the notice to appear, citing the Immigration and Nationality Act.

Both of the offenses took place when he was a teenager.
…
The second of those convictions was eventually expunged from his criminal record, his sister said, as part of a guilty plea through Michigan’s Holmes Youthful Trainee Act, a program intended to help young offenders avoid the stigma of a criminal conviction. But even though the crime was scrubbed off his public record, it can still be used against him for removal from the country, his sister said.

ICE is out of control. What the hell do they care about a naturalized doctor? How does he even get on their radar?

Nearly half of the Eastern Shore’s crab houses have lost the temporary workers, mostly from Mexico, who come every season to pick crabs, the Baltimore Sun reported last week. The businesses couldn’t get visas for the crab pickers because the Trump administration awarded them by lottery this year, instead of on a first-come, first-serve basis.
…
For the most part, though, the very folks in trouble on the Eastern Shore refuse to see the connection.

Harry Phillips, owner of Russell Hall Seafood, understands that. Like his neighbors, he voted for Trump and supports him. But he believes the president has been misinformed on the seasonal H-2B worker visas and would see the devastating results in one quick visit to the island.

“We’re 15 minutes away from Washington by helicopter,” said Phillips, whose crab house was quiet Sunday morning, with empty bushel baskets stacked high because the crab pickers aren’t coming. “There’s a landing pad for the helicopter, and we would welcome him here. If the president could just come and see what’s happening to American workers, he could see it right here, the effects of all this.”

And for decades, Mexican workers have kept the industry here afloat by doing the picking.

“We depend on the Hispanics,” explained Phillips, who has been bringing Mexican workers to Dorchester County since 1992. “They’re the ones keeping us in business. No American people are going to do this job. We’ve tried.”

Well, I don't mind telling you who voted for because it's not a secret. I voted for Trump because I thought he could do a decent job, and I wasn't alone. 89 percent of the people in this district voted for Donald Trump. So how do you think all these people are feeling about President Trump after we supported him, counted on him, and for the last 25 years, whether it be one party or the other, we've gotten our workers? I do not understand. President Trump uses H-2B workers in his resorts, and I'm sure he got his. But here we are, empty handed, out of work, and there are many, many unhappy people with the party right now.

According to an email notification sent to Pentagon staffers, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) will make site visits at four military installations in Texas and Arkansas during the next two weeks to evaluate their suitability to shelter children.

The bases would be used for minors under 18 who arrive at the border without an adult relative or after the government has separated them from their parents. HHS is the government agency responsible for providing minors with foster care until another adult relative can assume custody.
…
The use of military bases to hold immigrant children is not without precedent. At the peak of the 2014 child-immigration crisis, the Obama administration used bases in Oklahoma, Texas and California to house more than 7,000 children over a period of several months.

A Senate subcommittee has found that federal officials lost track of nearly 1,500 migrant children last year after a government agency placed the minors in the custody of adult sponsors in communities nationwide.

The Health and Human Services Department says it uses its limited funds to track the safety of at-risk children, and could not determine where 1,475 missing minors had gone.

The Health and Human Services Department came under fire two years ago for rolling back child welfare policies meant to protect unaccompanied minors fleeing violence in Central America. An Associated Press investigation found that more than two dozen were placed in homes where they were sexually assaulted, starved or forced to work.

This (post) is up there as one of the more anger-inducing things the administration has done.