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There is something here to be said in regards to police brutality, IL, and multi million dollars settlements with the city of Chicago certainly are appropriate to keep the Chicago police in check going forward and to keep basic human rights and basic human dignity a top consideration going forward. You have a point - certainly there is much cash-in-able liability here in regards to the city of Chicago. However, the evil United Airlines Brand did draw first blood and so should be retaliated against first. Such is only fair, no? Rob

As do I for your lack of concern for basic human rights/dignity and for your stated continued support of the United Airlines brand going forward. However, realistically, do EITHER of our opinions matter going forward? What matters to the United Airlines brand at this point is the court of public opinion (not looking good here in Phoenix, AZ, but I can't speak for the rest of the country), not looking good in China, one of the brand's largest markets, and I rather believe (most importantly) not looking good in a court of law. What really matters now is to increase negative publicity in regards to this brand and to increase public pressure for a HUGE lawsuit settlement, in the range of above $300 million USD or so, so that other corporations also begin to live in fear of the general public. We shall see, IL, but at the moment it does not look as if this brand is going to get off easy. You can partially thank persons such as myself and my cousin and my husband, and even my Mother, who says she will protest tomorrow (though I don't believe she should so soon after her knee replacement, you know?) Rob

And as this article points out, the rules for bumping a passenger PRIOr TO BOARDING are dufferent from the rules allowing them to deplane someone who has legitimately been boarded. Untied appears to have breached their own toghtly worded contract of carriage when they did this.

Arguments for the court, not for on the plane, unless your a lawyer. As an example, I have seen a lawyer go through a police DUI checkpoint and he knew what buttons he could press to push the issue. One of the officers recognized him and knew to leave it alone. But I also know of horror stories where lawyers crossed the line. The average Joe, I wouldn't recommend armchair lawyering.

Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

A quick response - given that I am from the lower social classes, is it not my moral obligation to protest against United Airlines and the evil that this brand represents? Would I not be just as guilty as United Airlines is, understanding America as I do coming from the lower social classes, if I chose not to protest? Coming from the lower social classes and seeing America clearly as I do, how could anyone realistically expect me and my husband and others from the 85006 not protest? Appalling as it may seem to the upper social classes, I am all about human rights before profit. Deal. We of the 85006 have certainly had our share of profit over basic human rights FOR FAR TOO LONG. (capitalized to show respect for my husband and my in-law from Mexico, and to my Mother, an immigrant from Austria). Rob

Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

As do I for your lack of concern for basic human rights/dignity and for your stated continued support of the United Airlines brand going forward. However, realistically, do EITHER of our opinions matter going forward? What matters to the United Airlines brand at this point is the court of public opinion (not looking good here in Phoenix, AZ, but I can't speak for the rest of the country), not looking good in China, one of the brand's largest markets, and I rather believe (most importantly) not looking good in a court of law. What really matters now is to increase negative publicity in regards to this brand and to increase public pressure for a HUGE lawsuit settlement, in the range of above $300 million USD or so, so that other corporations also begin to live in fear of the general public. Rob

So your d*mned if you do and d*mned if you don't protest and hope economically this airline is destroyed financially and ruins your zip codes major employer? And this is because of some imaginary self imposed class system, you believe is out to get you? No, no obligation other then what you self impose upon yourself.

Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

I am trying my best to accept that this was not a direct attack against the lower social classes in America and I am trying to believe, as best as I can, that this was not a direct insult to all the victims of the United States of America, and America's need to keep people from the lower classes down as best as possible to increase profit as much as possible for the upper classes. My husband, my Mother, and my in laws wish me to be brutally honest with you but......this site has been good to me and I will leave any retaliation against you to karma and walk away. And yes, those of the lower social classes are capable of incredible displays of class on a daily basis. Rob

No one can help you with what YOU believe. That is up to YOU. I deal with real people, in real life. Some victims of rape, incest, attempted murder, burglary, theft, etc. Others are perpetrators, Pedophile, murderers, thieves, abusive people of various sorts. You wish to retaliate for what YOU perceive as an injustice, go ahead, what can you do other then form a protest in front of your computer (like to see that,)!

Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

I'd love to start over in Chile with my husband and both our extended families if for no other reason, the affordable health care Chile offers, both socialized and private. I am enough of a realist to comparison shop America on these terms and I'm afraid America fails such tests. No excuse for this period, but I knew that at the age of 10 - such is not news for me at this late date. Rob

You cannot force others to go with you (inlaw's and that is their choice). So are you going to actually get information about immigrating to there while you are there, or is there something that is going to make you a victim and unable to do that?

I think, after many years, that I understand inherently why this country does not work for me. Strangely enough being part of this board has helped me to understand this. For America to work for you, you have to be OK with the doctor on United Airlines being bloodied up and violently dragged off that infamous United Airlines flight. This goes way beyond mere protesting of the United Airlines brand - we could be talking about any brand here, realistically. What has dawned on me is that to believe in America in it's current form you have to either be OK with this violent treatment of a legally paid passenger OR be willing to look the other way. I am unable to do either, and realistically, I am doomed to never fit into this society other than at a surface level, and this only provided I keep my mouth shut.

No snark here - I really have to thank both United Airlines and also the conservatives on this board for making this crystal clear to me. At a very basic level I just don't fit into this society as I am unwilling to gloss over, ignore, or look the other way regarding such callous and heinous injustice. For me there are no excuses for United Airlines and this society, if one wishes to fit in, expects one to make up excuses or just find some other way to go along with intense injustice. No can do. At least I get this on a level down to my DNA now. Rob

PS I just came back to add that I'm not complaining here - I'm very grateful that I don't fit into this society now that I see this more clearly and I very much like what this says about me as a person. Thanks to those persons and the United Airlines Brand who helped me see this.

Arguments for the court, not for on the plane, unless your a lawyer. As an example, I have seen a lawyer go through a police DUI checkpoint and he knew what buttons he could press to push the issue. One of the officers recognized him and knew to leave it alone. But I also know of horror stories where lawyers crossed the line. The average Joe, I wouldn't recommend armchair lawyering.

I absolutely agree with you. Once United had decided to use violence to get him off the plane it was game over and his options were to either give up or be bloody right, to warp an English phrase. His likelihood of winning was roughly the same as the people who think that they will be able to successfully use their second amendment rights if the time ever comes to overthrow our government. Which is to say, pretty much zero. My point was only that United was wrong and he was right. It wasn't that that means anything until the inevitable trial.

Arguments for the court, not for on the plane, unless your a lawyer. As an example, I have seen a lawyer go through a police DUI checkpoint and he knew what buttons he could press to push the issue. One of the officers recognized him and knew to leave it alone. But I also know of horror stories where lawyers crossed the line. The average Joe, I wouldn't recommend armchair lawyering.

So your d*mned if you do and d*mned if you don't protest and hope economically this airline is destroyed financially and ruins your zip codes major employer? And this is because of some imaginary self imposed class system, you believe is out to get you? No, no obligation other then what you self impose upon yourself.

No one can help you with what YOU believe. That is up to YOU. I deal with real people, in real life. Some victims of rape, incest, attempted murder, burglary, theft, etc. Others are perpetrators, Pedophile, murderers, thieves, abusive people of various sorts. You wish to retaliate for what YOU perceive as an injustice, go ahead, what can you do other then form a protest in front of your computer (like to see that,)!

You cannot force others to go with you (inlaw's and that is their choice). So are you going to actually get information about immigrating to there while you are there, or is there something that is going to make you a victim and unable to do that?

My in laws do wish to leave the US (my husband's parents) and even my mother is thinking this country is getting to be too much for her to deal with - the United Airlines incident was just one of many things making her feel ill at ease about remaining in the United States. It would be easier for her to remain here given her age of 75 - she's getting up there to adjust to a new society, you know? My point here is that no forcing in needed in this case. As to my husband, he sees this country for what it is, is here to save money, and the only really nice thing he has to say about it is that he's grateful it's not as violent as Mexico - yet. As to the other issues in your post, I will come back to them later. Rob

Could you at least point to arguments? He has yet to even state what "human rights" were violated.

Ummm.....you really are OK with Dr. Dao being blooded up and violently dragged off that United Airlines flight??? Ay carumba, all I can say is that I'm sorry if that is truly the case, and that my mind reels with this - if it indeed the case that you are truly OK with how this Doctor was treated by United Airlines. Rob