Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

more than 50 consecutive page links with this name displayed isolated on the left side.

The meaning of This is a HUGE impact, no other Company can manage that ! there is total TRUST, RECOGNITION and PROFITS associated here.

Pure genius coming to an anti-scam page to market crap. You have used your one post wisely.

The meaning is this garbage is being pushed by every serial recruiting pimp in pimpland. Every "internet guru" prowling the interwebs looking for victims to sign up. What would provide trust is if you could show us where this and you are registered with the SEC and other government bodies.

Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

Originally Posted by ribshaw

Pure genius coming to an anti-scam page to market crap. You have used your one post wisely.

The meaning is this garbage is being pushed by every serial recruiting pimp in pimpland. Every "internet guru" prowling the interwebs looking for victims to sign up. What would provide trust is if you could show us where this and you are registered with the SEC and other government bodies.

Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

OzSoapbox over on his excellent BehindMLM blog sums up the KaratBars opportunity nicely:

"Conclusion

The public side of Karatbars makes perfect sense. Buy gold, sell gold, get paid. That I have no problems with and it’s all perfectly legitimate (at least on the surface).

Dig deeper however and things get incredibly murky with the compensation plan and affiliate side of things.

The first major red-flag within the Karatbars International compensation plan is the overall pay-to-play aspect of the business.

The compensation plan material (and no doubt affiliates pitching it) stress that Karatbars is free to join. That much is true, however earnings in the binary (including commission qualification itself) and the ability to buy the Bronze Director rank are directly tied into the purchase of a package.

When you combine this with the package bonus paid out on the purchase of one of the packages, things get even more problematic as we start to enter pyramid scheme territory.

You sign up to Karatbars International, buy your package and then recruit others who do the same. This build your points and units and pays you out a direct commission per affiliate recruited.

Packages come with “cards” which offer a discount on the top-tier VIP package, which suggests the company itself encourages this practice (at the VIP package level at least).

It is entirely possible to earn via the selling of gold to retail customers in Karatbars International, however as a business opportunity it’s highly unlikely.

Prospective affiliates would be strong advised to check with their potential upline as to how much gold they are selling to non-affiliates each month. I suspect in most cases one will find it to be negligible, if anything at all.

In summary, there’s nothing inherently wrong with investing in gold, or even building an MLM company around this idea (provided it’s being sold in substantial quantities to non-affiliates). Tack on a recruitment-driven pyramid scheme that incorporates pay-to-play commissions however (and the buying of affiliate rank, which directly affects commission rates), and it’s easy to see why the Canadian AMF issued their fraud alert a few months ago.

I honestly can’t see why anyone other than affiliates would bother purchasing gold through Karatbars, and that’s a problem

UPDATED 12:21 P.M. EDT (MARCH 28, U.S.A.) Whack-A-Mole. Here’s the latest disturbing incarnation: On March 20, the Autorité des marchés financiers (AMF) published a warning on a gold “program” known as Karatbars International GmbH. BehindMLM.com spotlighted the warningyesterday.

From the AMF warning (bolding added): “With the company’s ‘Affiliates’ program, investors can make Internet-based purchases through Karatbars plans and they are encouraged to recruit two other Affiliates. These Affiliates are in turn encouraged to recruit two other Affiliates each, and so on. Affiliates are lured by the possibility of earning large payouts, in particular through a percentage of amounts collected from the Karatbars plans and gold products purchased by referrals.”

Gold is very efficiently traded internationally on regulated exchanges with ZERO counterparty risk. I can go into the market today and buy gold or any other metal with almost no transaction cost. Anything else is a waste of money and needless risk of loss on numerous fronts no matter how many affiliates blog otherwise. If you want to have a serious discussion about that then by all means I am interested. If not, let's kick this turd back to the dirty depths of Scamland where the air is already foul.

Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

Originally Posted by omadawn

What if you try to do even a small research

Ok, lest I be branded one more sardonic hater of great opportunities I did just that.

Can only pray each Karatbar comes with a very large tube of Astroglide and something to bite on. Never mind bullshit matrix recruiting stuff that spells scam for sure!
There are three primary scams when buying and selling gold.

1. The price people pay is too high, and the price they sell at is too low in relation to what the market price should be. This is the simplest and most common.

2. Cons say they are buying you gold/silver and will store it for you and sell it when the time comes. Often coupled with 1, and in some cases they never buy the gold at all.

3. Outright fake gold coins and bars made with gold coated Tungsten.

Let's start with one and see if the folks at Karatbars are worth doing business with based on pure math.

As of today:

A preferred purchase of a 1 gram Karatbar is Euro 47.42. This equals Euro 1344.33 per ounce. (28.3495 Karatbars)
Needs to be converted to ounces to make the math consistent with where someone can very closely buy or sell on a regulated exchange at Euro 981.10 per ounce.

So for an internet entrepreneur to buy 1oz of Karatbars they will spend 1344.33 for the same purchase they could basically make on the open market for 981.10. A 37% premium. Let's stop there and call shenanigans.

It gets a little better when a lucky network marketer goes to sell. As of today, those generous folks at KB will buy back 1oz of Karatbars for 945.17 (Euro 33.34 * 28.3495). Keeping in mind the same ounce could be sold for close to Euro 981.10 on an open exchange. A mere 4% haircut on your way out.

If you consider a 41% total beating just to play some sort of money game a winning proposition then I suspect KB has a swell deal for you.

Incidentally as I am aware there are some discrepancies in exchange versus private transactions, especially in smaller quantities. 1 gram of Gold on EBAY is selling for Euro 38.61 meaning KB could buy on Ebay, mark the shit up 22% and there is your "preferred price". If you are not a member of the no reach around gold club, the beatings get even worse.

While I may have been a little hasty with my wit this morning in calling this garbage pushed by every serial pimp in pimpland, we now need to include people who really suck at math.

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But there's more, when you ask for a small amount of research I figures why not. I understand the argument for buying physical metals, but leaving others to "watch over" them can simply trade one problem for another. I''ll be brief.

Why is this important? LBMA is who Karatbars claims certifies their gold. Do they, I have no idea, but if I were buying this overpriced crap I would have some way of verifying the quality other than taking their word. I.E. take physical delivery.

Notice: Chinatungsten Online (Xiamen) Manu.& Sales Corp. is a very professional and serious company, specializing in manufacturing and selling tungsten fake gold coin and other tungsten related products for more than two decades. We are a professional tungsten fake gold coin manufacturer. Our tungsten gold fake coin is only for souvenir and decoration purpose. Here we declare: Please do not use our tungsten fake gold coin and other fake gold coin products for any illegal purpose.We can provide all kinds of tungsten fake gold coin as your requirements.Our tungsten fake gold coin products are qualified

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Sure you say, but I know this guy locally who is in the city council and runs a coin ship, surely he wouldn't screw me.

"I began operating what is generally known as a Ponzi scheme," Wilson's confession says. It says Wilson told clients he would buy silver at low prices and sell at high prices, but "most of the time I did not buy silver."

Whatever though, I am sure you spent a lot of time thinking this stuff through.

Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

Pedro, Pedro, Pedro, such a naive and ignorant marketing tactic will only cause you pain in the long run.

All I have to do to see what sort of shady, dubious schemes you have been involved in is to type any one of these into Google.
"omadawn"
"pgama31"
"downcost.wix.com"

Your past promotions tell anyone with a grain of common sense that you can't spot a loser of a programme before it collapses. We, on the other hand, have plenty of experience and a pol of knowledge that gives us a good idea of whether a programme is a fly-by-night scam from the start.

Furthermore, if a company or opportunity fills all of the Google search hits on the first page, that has nothing to do with whether they are successful, honest, or bogus. All it means is that they know how to build websites that influence Google's search engine.

Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

Hi
Sorry for being away so long, but I have been ill, in surgery, but now am ok and back.

So it seems that you guys have been doing your "home work" about karatbars inside the 1% of the supposed negative feedback (because that´s really what you posted here, general caution advices linked to non-proved suppositions)

Doing a search of my own to the remaining 99%, you can find in the Forum bellow, one that I believe to be the best thread where Gold investments and karatbars credibility are open to discussion.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=349004.0

If you might have a few moments to take a peek, You can see that The karat defender is much different from myself in terms of recognition and argumentation.

Perhaps after reading, you might find that, the "loser of a programme", that you were so fast (with your plenty of experience and a pol of knowledge) on sticking in it the disrespectful label, is in fact a reliable and legitimate program where people can invest with safety and confidence**

**I truly do believe that the Vatican would NOT buy them 100Kg of Gold cards (like they did), if it could be otherwise. Or...do you think they do business with "any" Company?

Funny thing about HYIPs: Some try to demonize the Pope; others try to turn him into a pitchman.

One of the would-be intervenors in the bizarre RoboVault bankruptcy case in Florida claimed he derived this authority from the Vatican. (This was before the U.S. Marshals put him in handcuffs, of course.)

Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

Originally Posted by omadawn

Perhaps after reading, you might find that, the "loser of a programme", that you were so fast (with your plenty of experience and a pol of knowledge) on sticking in it the disrespectful label, is in fact a reliable and legitimate program where people can invest with safety and confidence**

As I said, I am willing to have a serious discussion about this, but that involves actually stating your case. You haven't said anything, just more spam. Keeping in mind, the math does not work on this, the only way to make money is to recruit suckers or pray for another gold bubble.

Every other piece of silliness aside, why would someone expect to make money paying 37% more for a commodity than they have too?

Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

Originally Posted by ribshaw

As I said, I am willing to have a serious discussion about this, but that involves actually stating your case. You haven't said anything, just more spam. Keeping in mind, the math does not work on this, the only way to make money is to recruit suckers or pray for another gold bubble.

Every other piece of silliness aside, why would someone expect to make money paying 37% more for a commodity than they have too?

First of all, AMF only regulates companies based in Quebec who deal in paper derivatives. Karatbars is in Stuttgart, Germany (nowhere near Quebec) and only deals in bullion gold, so there is absolutely no way they could even register with the AMF.
Next, there are only a few companies in the world who sell our type of gold, 999.9 with the LBMA stamp, the assayers signature and the kinebar (hologram) technology. Google 1 gram LBMA kinebar gold and we are priced $5 to $20 less than any other company. You simply cannot compare a Chevrolet to a Mercedes thereby diffusing the fact that Karatbars is "crooked." Buy all of the Canadian Maple Leafs you want, but understand that no matter if you bought them, inherited them or found them, they still belong to Canada and they always will meaning they can be confiscated at any time.

As far as claims on the 2014 incomes, please remember that the 12 week plan was not introduced until July 1st, 2013. From July 1st to December 31st, we had more affiliates making over $500, $1,000. $5,000. and $10,000 a week than any other network marketing company in history during a 6 month time frame (even though we are not considered network marketing).

Karatbars has the packages ready to be shipped from Karatbars the moment someone purchases a package. Gold that is delivered goes through a different process. The request is sent to Prosegur. All activity involving the movement of gold is videotaped. Fed Ex picks it up (under surveillance) and the gold has to clear customs in both Germany and the country where you reside. I have never had a gold shipment not be delivered. Not once! Not ever! All of this is clearly stated in the Affiliate terms, have to take the time to read it.

I agree, many MLMs are pyramid schemes. Money games as I like to call them. Karatbars has a REAL product. How do I know? Because I have a safe full of Karatbars and more to come!
We are not considered multi level marketing. There are no requirements, no Monthly fees (required to all pyramid sq) to our business as far as purchases go.

Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

HINT: parroting what your upline told you might impress the Talkgold and MMG members, in the real world it will get you laughed off the 'net.

as for your other nonsense statement:

Originally Posted by omadawn

Karatbars has a REAL product.

I'll let the SEC answer that one:

The fraudsters behind a pyramid scheme may go to great lengths to make the program look like a legitimate multi-level marketing program. But despite their claims to have legitimate products or services to sell, these fraudsters simply use money coming in from new recruits to pay off early stage investors

Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

""""When considering joining an MLM program, beware of these hallmarks of a pyramid scheme:

The goal of an MLM program is to sell products. Be careful if you are required to pay a buy-in to participate in the program, even if the buy-in is a nominal one-time or recurring fee (e.g., $10 or $10/month).

The SEC has taken emergency enforcement action to stop alleged pyramid schemes that violate the federal securities laws, including schemes disguised as MLM programs. """""""""

Re: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

When considering joining an MLM program, beware of these hallmarks of a pyramid scheme:

Easy money or passive income. Be wary if you are offered compensation in exchange for little work such as making payments, recruiting others, and placing advertisements.

Alike there is a compensation for buying Gold, there is also one for recruiting people only, that will buy more Gold (included in purchased packages and outside the packages). Every kind of purchase is always optional. All this identifys a Legitimate MLM Company

No demonstrated revenue from retail sales. Ask to see documents, such as financial statements audited by a certified public accountant (CPA), showing that the MLM company generates revenue from selling its products or services to people outside the program.

Working on that, will post soon

Complex commission structure. Be concerned unless commissions are based on products or services that you or your recruits sell to people outside the program. If you do not understand how you will be compensated, be cautious.

I personaly, as well as my uplines have sold Gold cards to people not particulary interested in making part of the program but that had found in the cards a good investment for them and their family.

The compensation program is quite clear, and not limited to the most stated, and a bit unreal to take in practice, 12 week plan. I see this plan as up to a good effect on a work effort stimulation purposes.

Emphasis on recruiting. If a program primarily focuses on recruiting others to join the program for a fee, it is likely a pyramid scheme. Be skeptical if you will receive more compensation for recruiting others than for product sales.

Not a fee. You Buy Gold, recruit others to buy more gold to the Company, and receive the commissions. As simple and as legitimate as that

The SEC has taken emergency enforcement action to stop alleged pyramid schemes that violate the federal securities laws, including schemes disguised as MLM programs.