=1785 so you need to drop 4 of the dozerbalds and spend the remaining 5 points buying searchlights for the best vehicles.Personally before I went all out on this list..I'd want to know whether single weapon baals are any good I've only ever faced one once.

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ruffian4 wrote:Handy fellow, this kmb...Like Ahriman delving the paths of the webway ...

Baal's should always be moving as fast as poss so only ever get to fire one weapon. They are mainly a show of force weapon, use the scout move and smoke to put them somewhere dangerous early game to make the enemy use all his fire power trying to take them down. I would suggest the razors need the ass cannons and the baals need the flamers tho, the threat of razors moving forward and popping vehicles while your baals are already in postion to flame the crew is a threat which normally sees the preds targetted, you then just vindi the crews instead.

Obviously a good oppenent will see what your feeding him and throw a spanner in the works, but you cant deal with a good player in the list building stage, you normally deal with a good player after you have lost when you realise how he has out played you.

The game i lost at the last meet up was because my oppenent wound me up so i forgot the mission and tried to batter his army to table him and thus belittle him, thats where i lost the game because whether he was aware he was doing it or not (personnally i think it was his masterstroke) winding me up made me play my armys weakness against his armys strenghts, no amount of list building can compensate for that.

BANE wrote: I would suggest the razors need the ass cannons and the baals need the flamers tho, the threat of razors moving forward and popping vehicles while your baals are already in postion to flame the crew is a threat which normally sees the preds targetted, you then just vindi the crews instead.

I considered the swap out,, but flamestorm for ass on baal is free, flamer to ass on razorback is 35 points.. so to swap weapon load outs for target priority shenanigans you need to find 70 more points in the above. (We are so building LH his list for him, you know this only came about because he saw I am ranked higher than him at rankingsHQ )

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ruffian4 wrote:Handy fellow, this kmb...Like Ahriman delving the paths of the webway ...

We haven't been secretly tourneying without you.. I mean the legend bit at the bottom.I forgot I hadn't wound him up about it till last week..(its a fun twist of the arm since he actually does consistently better on average than me and has gone to more,I just have a recorded higher score on that, and 1 win of a tourney more (even though it was AOS fun one) quantifiably googlable on web I'm better )Tis sad about nige.. you need to slip him some caffiene, and then some malware..

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ruffian4 wrote:Handy fellow, this kmb...Like Ahriman delving the paths of the webway ...

OK, played a game against KMB's bikes last night. Pulled out a draw using pretty much the list KMB outlined above.

Like:Assault cannons, baby!AV13Dread - the list is pitiful in CC without it

Dislike:Lack of CC without dread - my IG outclass this list in that respect!Scouts

Game was a draw, using the draw game scenario (bases) because the bikes held up my army in CC for one turn too many. Game ended on turn 5 with 2 of my fast tanks bearing down on KMBs fire base of 3 devestators & 2 (scoring) sternguard squads with 15 space marines and a flying dreadnought following. KMB managed to take out a fair whack of my shooting (and by extension, army) by the end of turn 2, but lost most his army doing it. On the plus side, my base wasn't in any threat at any point meaning the scouts are to my mind, pretty redundant.

So, with a jig around...

Blood Angels - 1750

Librarian - 100 - shield, lance

Furioso dread - 195 - extra armour - drop pod, deathwind launcher

ASM - 135 - melta - razorback, dozer, flamers

ASM - 170 - melta - razorback, dozer, assault cannons

ASM - 170 - melta - razorback, dozer, assault cannons

ASM - 170 - melta - razorback, dozer, assault cannons

Baal - 120 - dozer, assault cannons

Baal - 120 - dozer, assault cannons

Baal - 120 - dozer, assault cannons

Vindicator - 150 - dozer

Vindicator - 150 - dozer

Vindicator - 150 - dozer

1750 on the nose.

Thinking on the list:Assault cannons! I think i need to put at least one flamestorm in there, but I love assault cannons! KMBs point that the 'tax' on a flamestorm is 35 points (as you'll need to relpace the assault cannon on the baal with one on a razorback) is a good one, so I've left as is... Surely 6 twin linked assault cannons should be enough to live without flamstorms?

The dread! I had a flying dread in the game & he was lush! However, most armies have a way of stopping him. And I, for one, don't like that. I also don't like the way that missiles rain down upon my fire line with grevious hidiousness on turn 1 & 2. I further dislike the fact that I need to deal with all these anying insects that swarm my lines early on. So, I thought I'd drop a dreadnaught in my opponent's face on turn 1. His fire base will need to spread out on depolyment to avoid it, or shoot a lot at an AV13, smoked, can't be stunned, close combat monster rather than my fire base. To top it off, they'll need to deal with the drop pod too, or deal with a herd of wounds from the deathwind launcher. As an aside, I must admit I initially read "deathwind" as "deathwing" and thought that the droppod would fart terminators at my opponent - alas this was not the case on careful scrutiny!

How does that sound?

When in deadly dangerWhen beset by doubtRun in little circlesWave your arms and shout - parody of the litany of command

Single drop pod dread is too easy to ignore with reserve shenanigans such as you do with your deathwing, and your guard and frog did with his eldar.. when I ran my old GT list with the single dropping dread.(and your melta has less range.. and the reasons I didn't take ironclads still apply.)If you really are scared of libby being taken out of game..and don't trust single pods, and don't like scouts....how about

Libby5ASM melta Flamerback with blade5ASM melta Flamerback with blade5ASM melta ASSback with blade5ASM melta ASSback with bladeBaal ASS bladeBaal ASS bladeBaal ASSVindie Vindie Vindie 5 Deathcompany 1 fist (turn one they get in a flamerback whilst the occupants jump out to hold your backline since otherwise your abandoning it)*Deathcompany dreadnought with bloodtalons furious charge and ignoring stunned and shakkens fleet (cough and rage+av12 cough).1750 on nose.(its weird you said that we were reading an old marmalade atkins where she got in a fight with a bookie about what it meant)that way your not losing 1/5th of your men and it keeps the phalanx.

Rules query * can mental people climb on board vehicles to get to nearest troops quicker? (I know that once on board you can control them)..but you want your cheap discounted flamebacks.

OF course.. dropping the scouts.. and the flying dreadnought.. wouldgive you mephiston buhahahahahahaha

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ruffian4 wrote:Handy fellow, this kmb...Like Ahriman delving the paths of the webway ...

I'm not that worried about that if I'm honest. If people are reserving (or in DoW where I go first), then the Dread runs behind the wall & the pod goes somewhere annoying. It's not there for the melta gun, it's there to stop people shooting at my tanks - for 35 points I get a bit of a help against people with a static long range firebase - if they don't have one (even if it'sa yet), then I've got another AV13 running around in my tank wall (and another melta gun).

Hate, hate, hate the DC, not much better than marines for a large points increase & need a fist, and get led around by the nose.

Considered the DC dread, but rage & AV12 defeats the point.

I don't need back markers. I can put my base anywhere in my deployment zone. In a push forward midfield control army, I simply place it as far forward as I can.

I was considering dropping the Dread & taking the scouts (as advocated) and another librarian for CC punch, but discarded it.

When in deadly dangerWhen beset by doubtRun in little circlesWave your arms and shout - parody of the litany of command

killmaimburn wrote:Rules query * can mental people climb on board vehicles to get to nearest troops quicker? (I know that once on board you can control them)..but you want your cheap discounted flamebacks.buhahahahahahaha

yes as long as thay cant see anything, so as long as you hide them behind your wall of Tank's and thay get in via a Hatch that blocks LOS your fine.

Mephiston & dread run like buggers towards the enemy, hopefully drawing a bit of fire along the way. Or hide & counter attack. Either way, something's going to die.

Not sure if I like this as much as the drop pod dread varient... On that basis I could drop another assault cannon (taking me down to 4 assault canons and up to 3 flamers) for a naked drop pod for the dread...

EDIT, I think I've hit saturation on lists - I need some games...

When in deadly dangerWhen beset by doubtRun in little circlesWave your arms and shout - parody of the litany of command

I like this version much more..The drop pod would be handy for blocking firelanes if your opponent is some static infantry missile toting weasel I guess. but you are losing a lot of fire for that steel.Go off tonight to maelstrom play some guys and ask why they haven't let us in yet

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ruffian4 wrote:Handy fellow, this kmb...Like Ahriman delving the paths of the webway ...

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