Why is the data base bloated? In the US there are over 2000 local TV stations, and Directv carries full Guide data for most all of them. In order for the AM21 to work, it's data base must contain the full Guide data for the 2000 channels. Now along comes local stations adding sub channels, some as many as five or more. If each station adds only four subs, the data base must now carry 10,000 extra channel lineups in the Guide data stream.

A year or two ago Directv announced that they would not be adding any more sub channels and they disabled all of the DVR's from having the scan feature and relegated all to the data base.

I got something you can try to get channel 8.1 in LA. Re-run your intial set-up on your AM21 with your LA zip as your primary zip and run (74101) Tulsa OK as your secondary zip. You will get 8.1, 8.2, and 8.3 will have the guide for Retro TV. Let me know if this work's for you.

I'm glad it worked for you. You should have your 3 LA channels 8.1, 8.2, and 8.3. But your guide would show the guide for the Tulsa channels. 8.3 Tulsa broadcasts RetroTV on that station so you at least have the guide for that channel in your DVR. It's the best you can do to attain those channels.

I have been consistently unable to reply to this thread online. Hopefully this will make it through:

I wish I had gotten your response a few weeks earlier. I finally resolved the issue by building my own HTPC and using a regular tuner. I now get all the local stations I wanted. It's funny, because as I think about it, this was the final straw that let me to the decision to drop DirecTV. If I had gotten this solution early on, I'd probably still be with Direct.

Thank you for posting your solution as it should work for someone else in the same situation. I'm not anti-DirecTV. I loved their service when I was with them. I just think on issues like this they need to be a bit more responsive and pro-active, particularly with long-term customers, than they were with me.

It started when I wanted the national PBS station instead of the local ones because the national one broadcast everything I wanted when I wanted it. I called and emailed a couple times on this one, pleading and begging: Absolutely no way. I didn't like that.

When I assessed, after years, that I was really not watching TV that much and wanted a less expensive package (I was paying over $150 a month) with just TCM and HBO (the only stations, other than local, that I was really watching): No can do. OK, I understood the commercial viability of bundling, so that's when I decided to seek premium programming online and stick with DirecTV for local programming and DVR. The least expensive package I could get for ONLY local stations was nearly $60 a month, $20 of that just for the DVR!

Even then, I still hung on. When I realized I wasn't getting all the local stations I wanted, like RetroTV (I loved "I Spy" as a kid, I still love "Jack Benny"), I wasn't happy about that, but I researched it and found out Direct had it's own OTA tuner designed specifically for this problem. So, I bought the tuner and an antenna. Still couldn't get Retro through DirecTV, even though I could get it on my TV. I researched this issue and sort of understand why it's difficult for Direct, but I contact their support dept anyway because I knew there had to be some way to get one lousy local station, especially if I'm spending $60 a month. Needless to say, I was real unhappy with their canned, cut-and-paste, sorry-but-no-can-do response. As I said, this was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Needless to say, as my disaffection grew, I began to seek alternatives. Uverse seemed attractive at first, but upon doing more research, in the end, really isn't much better. Plus, they don't support video streaming (I really liked DirecTV's Mediashare, but was disappointed that they didn't really support or develop it beyond 1.0). Then I discovered Aereo. They very inexpensively deliver exactly what I want: local stations with DVR. But, they aren't in California, and it looks like it will be a very long time before they get here. Then I started looking at OTA DVR boxes like SimpleTV and Tablo. I really liked Tablo because it stores your programming locally and didn't have an expensive subscription program tied to it. However, both boxes weren't stated for release until after December.

So, I was waiting, rather impatiently, to switch to Tablo when the RetroTV (Channel 8.1) situation came up. That was it. I'd had it. I researched and decided I would simply build my own HTPC and use Windows Media Center for watching and recording live TV. I will admit that this is not easy, and I do not recommend it for anyone other than those who love, and are pretty good at, tinkering with PCs and PC software. But, in the end, I have what I wanted: Inexpensive local TV and DVR.

Getting your premium programming from online providers like Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, etc... also is not for the squeamish. There is a huge benefit to having your programming done for you by DirecTV that you don't realize until you've got to hunt down your programming on your own. It's definitely way more work: you miss a lot things, but you discover a lot of things as well.

In the end, I'm not saying that DirecTV isn't worth the money. It's just that times are a changing. If we, as consumers, are going to be paying that kind of money for entertainment, we need more options relative to 2013 technology, not 1999.

It started when I wanted the national PBS station instead of the local ones because the national one broadcast everything I wanted when I wanted it. I called and emailed a couple times on this one, pleading and begging: Absolutely no way. I didn't like that.

You can thank the FCC and local broadcasters for that. DirecTV is not allowed to provide you those "national feeds" without permission from the local stations.

I have a Simple.tv DVR for my off-air recordings and it works great, including the sub-channels not provided in DirecTV's Guide database.