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Twitch Upcoming!

We're delaying our Twitch till AFTER a very specific KS update. You'll know what one, we'll talk about the twitch in the update. We need all hands to get this one ready.
Which still means something good is coming.https://www.twitch.tv/missingworldsmedia

valiance online

Are you aware that there is another company or group of folks claiming to be the successor to CoH/CoV? http://valiance.shogn.net/ aka Valiance Online. They are in alpha testing stages from what can be seen on their site. Will you folks be offering Alpha testing? As well as beta that everyone asks about. Also are you folks working with them at all or have you considered it?

We are well aware of them and actually posted their latest update on our social media. They're going in a different direction to us, reskinning a fantasy game they were already making. I'm not sure they claim to be THE spiritual successor, but we both claim to be A spiritual successor.

They are doing good work over there, but it's definitely a different direction than CoT is going. And they seem very clear that they are "a" spiritual successor, not "the". I'm here on these forums because I personally like the direction that CoT is going.

The idea of all of the spiritual successors (there is at least one other) coming together and working together is tantalizing, but at this point it seems highly unlikely to say the least, so hopefully the friendly competition will make them all better.

Are you aware that there is another company or group of folks claiming to be the successor to CoH/CoV? http://valiance.shogn.net/ aka Valiance Online. They are in alpha testing stages from what can be seen on their site. Will you folks be offering Alpha testing? As well as beta that everyone asks about. Also are you folks working with them at all or have you considered it?

After we got the news back in 2012 that NCsoft was shutting CoH down there were groups of players/fans who did what they could to either try to get NCsoft to reconsider their decision or even attempt to buy/license the property from NCsoft to keep it going. When it became clear none of that was going to happen people started coming to terms with the idea of creating their own "spiritual successors" to CoH.

I don't know all the details over the following months, but it didn't take too long for the various groups involved to split into at least three different efforts; MWM being one of the three groups, the Valiance Online folks being another. On one hand it's kind of unfortunate that the collective creative post-CoH community has become split into these various factions - obviously it would have been more useful if everyone could have become united behind one single project. But as Cinnder has pointed out the various parties have remained remarkably friendly and generally supportive of each other's efforts. I only hope that when the time comes when these various groups start to have playable products that might potentially "compete" with each other that the general air of friendliness will continue.

As far as CoT alpha testing goes it'll be up to how MWM decides to scope that out. There's no hard or fixed rules about how any software developers must test their products so it'll be up to MWM to decide how many iterations of testing they'll do and how open they'll be for it. It's likely they'll do plenty of what they'll call "alpha testing" but only invite a few key people in for closed sessions. It means that "average" potential players like you and me might only get to be involved once beta testing begins. Alpha testing (almost by definition) involves limited CLOSED testing - I wouldn't automatically assume they'll invite just anyone to that. I doubt even being a Kickstart supporter will be enough to grant access for most of us. Again it'll mostly depend on what MWM wants to do and what kind of testing they want to label as "alpha", "beta" or anything in-between.

valiance seems to be a mere digital unpgrade of the orginal coh game. but i would prefer by a vast margin the option to have more realistic graphics. it has been like 4 generations of tech since coh went live. they seem to be going almost the exact route for powers too. i don't want coh remade, i want coh2. champions online tried for the cartoony look, and it flopped, along with star trek online.

wildstar is still to early to tell if the cartoony look will fail. world of warcraft pulled it off for all those people using poo computers. but even a bad modern computer is far more powerful now.

i want advanced dungeons and dragons. not basic set.

—

What a man thinks of himself, that is what determines, or rather indicates, his fate. - Henry David Thoreau

Ill be in my new home at that stage and with a 50/20 or 100/40 Mbps Internet plan (depending on when the Closed Betas will be).
Already told the missus Ill be taking days off from work to be taking part in the Betas and if any of her family/friends come over I wont be able to entertain them :)

If I had money to spare I might chip into this. OTOH, I might not, as our Avatar Builder will do much if not all of what this would do. Well, we might be a bit short on fantasy elements compared to UUDD Games. But we'd have a lot more variety overall, I think. ^_^

Is there still a chance of getting the stand alone costume creator late 2014/early 2015?

In an interview DocT has said they hope to have a beta of the avatar builder available by the end of the year. He pointed out (as has Shadow Elusive) that the main sticking point, at present, is the rig (i.e. the skeleton, I believe).

Personally, I will most likely stick with whichever one refuses to sell out to free to play models that penny pinch for every little item in game. I am an old school 15 a month guy, I tend to stick with what I am comfortable with, you know?

Sorry to bump this old thread, but just wanted to say that the Valiance kickstarter really impressed me - they have already made considerable progress! I hope that if the kickstarter fails then there could be some collaboration between Valiance and CoT - I think that a mixture of CoT's lore and Valiance's gameplay/worldbuilding teams would speed up development considerably. I understand they're different projects but I am really impressed with how good Valiance is looking even in pre-alpha.

Valiance had a head start when they chose to build a Superhero MMO. They were already an active studio have an inhouse Engine that they could modifie. As well as all the physical equipment needed. So that's one reason they got an active Alpha running and being great people they opened the door for us.

There was talk at the start to see if the two projects could become one. It didn't work some of the things MWM wants to do there engine couldn't handle. Then there the whole mass Volunteer membership of the CoT and they being an established business.

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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP

I'm not super confident that the Valiance kickstarter will be successful, but I chipped in as much as I could to help. I hope that the two projects can work off of each other in a friendly yet competitive manner. I'll more than likely play both but Valiance seems like it's going to be very RP-friendly.

Just to be fair, Valiance essentially licensed the engine. They aren't the same team that's working on the other MMO. They are however part of a network partnership. Either way, they're working hard to make a great game.

Are they using Unity3D still?
Rapid Application/Prototype development seems to go allot faster in it.
Plus, if you dont have allot of time to devote on developing a new feature yourself, theres always the Assets Store. ;)

But Unity3D had some issues with Morph Targets, which might still be present. (have not check as of late), but I hope to see Unity3D version 5 (after a few minor releases) really start making more waves.

If I could get into even a buggy as all get-out low rez playtest prototype just to give feedback on a few features, I would be happy at this point.
DCUO even with a newer graphics engine just isn't really set up for a computer KB+mouse, and isn't very good IMO on story and creative input, as it is set in the DC Universe, so...
And Champions Online never was anything like the P&P game, it gave little customization options, and, didn't "port over" the P&P character setup. Content was also really limited...
IMO, this world (IRL) desperately needs the hero morality emphasis that CoX had being an alternative to the current PvP "Neutral Evil (AD&D alignment)" mentality that seems to dominate the gaming world. We need a better set of morals being encouraged for the minds of the future...
That is what made the CoX game so much fun for me as I got to interact with others at least acting out the morality of a comic book hero.
Sorry to sound so preachy, but, too much of today is so grim that I have quit watching the news and mainstream TV a long time ago. We really do need a beacon of hope, cheesy as that sounds today, and if Trekkies can make the tablet, PDA, and flip phone possible, what could a future inventor make real?

I remember pretty clearly, when CoH announced the closure. Several groups - the gal with the overuse of emoticons, whose handle escapes me, she was pretty good at making comics with her avatar, the folks from the Titan Network were essentially one group that divided into two groups - and then maybe a week or so after, the Valiance Online guys made their pitch, explaining that they were a year or so into development and hoping for support. Some welcomed them, others like myself found it a bit too opportunistic, but that's me being old and grumpy.

I did ultimately download their beta, and have tried it once - only a few npc's about. The combat was okay, but it was very odd being the only player in the zone (as far as I knew).
I tried again this past weekend to catch their progress, the server was down and has been all this week.

I wish them well - but I don't think their game is as well planned out as CoT looks to be.
As far VO as being a spiritual successor, or even a successor - that remains to be seen.

—

Those who have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing. - John Cleese

Valience was a major disappointment to me.
The first thing I noticed was that the interface default was too small to read clearly which made it very difficult to do anything, including modify it so that I could read it. (Had the same trouble with Terra).
Next the costume options are way to complicated. I don't mean the costume creator, I mean the costume options. They were all elaborate designs that I would never want to use, and they had these ridiculous and offensive textures. Texture is almost always a bad thing in a character creator (for me) I want my characters smooth and simple. The only reason I'd ever want any texture is if I were making a rocky character. (By the way that's something I hated about the cinematic Spider-man also). This is even more of a problem in a game because it just means more to animate and more lag and lag is the cruel god that rules the Valiance world.
Next, every time I logged on I had to create a new account and character and start from scratch because it never remembered my account info.
Finally the server would be down for months at a time. I finally removed it from my computer.
Maybe it'll be better one day but I'm not going to try again until I hear good news from someone else.

Valience was a major disappointment to me.
The first thing I noticed was that the interface default was too small to read clearly which made it very difficult to do anything, including modify it so that I could read it. (Had the same trouble with Terra).
Next the costume options are way to complicated. I don't mean the costume creator, I mean the costume options. They were all elaborate designs that I would never want to use, and they had these ridiculous and offensive textures. Texture is almost always a bad thing in a character creator (for me) I want my characters smooth and simple. The only reason I'd ever want any texture is if I were making a rocky character. (By the way that's something I hated about the cinematic Spider-man also). This is even more of a problem in a game because it just means more to animate and more lag and lag is the cruel god that rules the Valiance world.
Next, every time I logged on I had to create a new account and character and start from scratch because it never remembered my account info.
Finally the server would be down for months at a time. I finally removed it from my computer.
Maybe it'll be better one day but I'm not going to try again until I hear good news from someone else.

The thing about VO that you have to remember is that it's pre-alpha. We've been given the chance to play the game long before it would normally be available for people to play. A lot of the things you have problems with can, and will, change long before it even makes it into an alpha state, much less a beta state.

For instance, the interface will be getting an overhaul soon. They've been previewing pieces of that for over a month now. And that's likely to not be the only overhaul it gets before launch as they gather feedback from the players that choose to give it. It also won't have all the options for scaling and customization that it's likely to have to launch. I'd be very surprised to see those go in before they've settled on something close to their final look.

For costume options, there's very few available, and for good reason. They've been through 3 different character models since I started playing it alone, and I didn't even start when they first offered it. The female model had some serious issues, and only just made it back in their most recent build. They're not going to give more than a couple of sample options while the model is still undergoing such heavy revision. That said, they have said that they're going to start adding more customization in the next few builds, so I'd start looking at that.

As far as the account thing goes, sometimes they have to wipe accounts due to changes in the character creation process, or changes in the account backend. It sucks, but again...this is a pre-alpha, play at your own risk game. And, if you're watching their Twitter, they usually warn when they're going to wipe accounts.

At the moment, the server is only up when they need feedback. They're making some pretty hefty changes in that downtime. This, again, to be expected of a pre-alpha game. Also, if you don't give -them- feedback, they can never take your issues into consideration, so I hope you have! VO's still got a long way to go, but it's getting somewhere.

This, again, to be expected of a pre-alpha game. Also, if you don't give -them- feedback, they can never take your issues into consideration, so I hope you have! VO's still got a long way to go, but it's getting somewhere.

...and we'll eventually be going through this process over here and it will be just as fraught with these same typical development problems. So we might as well be mentally prepared.

In both games we're seeing how the sausage is made--which is only for those with the stomach for it :P.

I understand that but I do feel like they've made some bad decisions.
The tiny interface is more than an annoyance it's a serious problem
The complex costumes should wait till later. K.I.S.S. I do believe that they contribute to lag.
As for letting us know through Twitter that their wiping accounts: PPPTH! Twitter.
But at least now I know that's not a mistake. So I'm cool with it.
The biggest mistake is the incredibly long down time gaps.
It's not just that I'm eager to play, or that I'm gung ho to overwhelm you with constant feedback, but how are you going to build a community if we can't even log on? (Weird comment coming from me but I know it matters to a lot of other people) It's very frustrating. Seriously, there have been several times when I thought the game had folded.
One last thing: the buildings in the game look weird in a way that makes it seem like I'm not on earth, or not in the present day anyway. Is the game supposed to be set in the distant future?

First of all, since we've got an old dev post in this thread with the old open beta date, let me officially post the new one.

CURRENT projected open beta launch - mid to late 2016. Yeah, it's been pushed off. Development is a fickle thing, and this happens with the triple AAA fully funded game you've been waiting for all the time too, lets remember. Understand that by default, any date we say is still a soft goal. The current date is maintained at the top of the FAQ page now, so you can always check that to see if it's still the same.

The Character Creator, however, is currently slated to get out by the end of 2015. Progress is actually humming along there, more or less. Fully expect to make that deadline.

Now, to answer the one part of the OP that our magnificent community has not already addressed: no, we won't be doing open alpha testing. Our stance is that alpha is not fit for public consumption. Closed beta wave access was conferred by donating ten or more to the KS campaign.

First of all, since we've got an old dev post in this thread with the old open beta date, let me officially post the new one.
CURRENT projected open beta launch - mid to late 2016. Yeah, it's been pushed off. Development is a fickle thing, and this happens with the triple AAA fully funded game you've been waiting for all the time too, lets remember. Understand that by default, any date we say is still a soft goal. The current date is maintained at the top of the FAQ page now, so you can always check that to see if it's still the same.
The Character Creator, however, is currently slated to get out by the end of 2015. Progress is actually humming along there, more or less. Fully expect to make that deadline.
Now, to answer the one part of the OP that our magnificent community has not already addressed: no, we won't be doing open alpha testing. Our stance is that alpha is not fit for public consumption. Closed beta wave access was conferred by donating ten or more to the KS campaign.

when the 'additional funding' round opens, will that be be considered a beta invite as well?

while i'm at it and before I check the forums (apologies) cuz of a time constraint, will the additional funding round also confer eligibility for the mogul secret lair, or was that purely a kickstarter benefit?

I like VO, but something about it...can't put my finger on it...just don't have faith in them anymore.

It is indeed pre-alpha, but it feels eerily similar to how it did last year......really not seeing the progress.

Imo, VO may go down the Bounty Hounds Online route, which was in beta for like..years it seemed..i see VO being in pre-alpha the same time next year, despite the team aiming for Steam access. Hopefully I am wrong.

I understand that building an MMO is a process, imo, they should just shutdown the player testing and work on the game until it is a respectable product. First impressions are everything, the standard gamer may not see it as pre-alpha, but a lame game.

Pains me to say this, but perhaps the DCUO people were right, they do appear too be far behind, as a respectable product.

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As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

There were comments on VO FB and Wordpress by players saying how some "DCUO people" were on twitter stating VO was too far behind to keep up or something to that extent. Could it have been fans? Idk, devs? idk.

I would not be surprised if this were staff, would not be the first time a dev or DCUO person jumped into the fray. One in particular will occasionally lash back at players (Not gonna say any names), players would also get banned out of dev arnger at times, so it does not shock me.

VO does seem pretty far behind though, not gonna lie, considering what it was a year ago, feels the same.

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As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

Me three. Didn't know that DCUO had weighted in at all.
Though a bit in VO's defense almost all of the updates has been to the back end tech, and almost nothing that utilizes it to such a degree that one notices it.

Yea, this is true.

—

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

Hello, I'm new to the forum and I just heard about City of Titans last week. I got to tell you guys I'm looking forward to this. I'm picky with MMO's and only play a select few. I either play MMOs with Movie franchises (like Lord of The Rings Online, Star Trek Online etc.) or Superhero MMOs. I'm currently on Champions Online but am a bit upset at the lack of character customization and limited amount of powers that are free. I'm excited for this game. Keep up the good work.
Now My question has probably been asked before, but What is the basic story synopsis of City of Titans?

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I am the terror that flaps in the night, I am the bug that delays a game's release.

To be honest that's actually a fairly interesting question given what you said about preferring things like movie franchise MMOs or other superhero MMOs which tend to have fairly specific settings. While much has been developed over the last couple of years to flesh out the general backstory of the CoT game (you can find this material spread around this forum and the Kickstarter pages) I think one of CoT's biggest strengths will be that it actually doesn't have an incredibly strict "story synopsis" or worldview that will force you to roleplay in any particular way.

One of the biggest problems I have with games like DCUO or Marvel Online is that they force you into playing existing classic characters (or at least incredibly close clones to existing characters). I have no problem with Batman or the Incredible Hulk as characters - I think they're awesome. But when I play MMOs I'd much rather play my OWN characters that I created. To me there's no comparison between creating my own superheroes and being forced into playing characters some old comic book guy created 50+ years ago.

One of the greatest strengths of City of Heroes (the game that City of Titans is striving to be a "spiritual successor" of) was its generalized setting which allowed players a huge amount of freedom to play and develop the stories and characters they wanted to have. Sure CoH had its own backstory and cast of NPCs but those things were only there to enhance your own creativity. In simple terms CoH didn't force you to have to accept any of its lore if you didn't want to. Hopefully CoT will follow in that model.

CoT is also expected to have a very strong character/costume creator and an alignment system which will be flexible in terms of hero versus villain styles of play. If it follows in CoH's footsteps these things should allow an unprecedented degree of freedom to essentially "do your own thing" storywise.

CaptainSabalan wrote:
What is the basic story synopsis of City of Titans?

I think one of CoT's biggest strengths will be that it actually doesn't have an incredibly strict "story synopsis" or worldview that will force you to roleplay in any particular way.
One of the biggest problems I have with games like DCUO or Marvel Online is that they force you into playing existing classic characters (or at least incredibly close clones to existing characters). I have no problem with Batman or the Incredible Hulk as characters - I think they're awesome. But when I play MMOs I'd much rather play my OWN characters that I created. To me there's no comparison between creating my own superheroes and being forced into playing characters some old comic book guy created 50+ years ago.
One of the greatest strengths of City of Heroes (the game that City of Titans is striving to be a "spiritual successor" of) was its generalized setting which allowed players a huge amount of freedom to play and develop the stories and characters they wanted to have. Sure CoH had its own backstory and cast of NPCs but those things were only there to enhance your own creativity. In simple terms CoH didn't force you to have to accept any of its lore if you didn't want to. Hopefully CoT will follow in that model.
CoT is also expected to have a very strong character/costume creator and an alignment system which will be flexible in terms of hero versus villain styles of play. If it follows in CoH's footsteps these things should allow an unprecedented degree of freedom to essentially "do your own thing" storywise.

That's a very good point you have and I agree with you. Having a strict storyline is fine to me in like Lord Of The Rings Online or Star Trek Online, but I guess having more freedom storywise in a Superhero MMO is actually a good idea. That way I could at least in a way make my own Superhero AND his own story. Very good point. I'd still like to learn a bit more about the lore in City of Titans. Thanks for the reply

—

I am the terror that flaps in the night, I am the bug that delays a game's release.

Lothic wrote:
CaptainSabalan wrote:
What is the basic story synopsis of City of Titans?

I think one of CoT's biggest strengths will be that it actually doesn't have an incredibly strict "story synopsis" or worldview that will force you to roleplay in any particular way.
One of the biggest problems I have with games like DCUO or Marvel Online is that they force you into playing existing classic characters (or at least incredibly close clones to existing characters). I have no problem with Batman or the Incredible Hulk as characters - I think they're awesome. But when I play MMOs I'd much rather play my OWN characters that I created. To me there's no comparison between creating my own superheroes and being forced into playing characters some old comic book guy created 50+ years ago.
One of the greatest strengths of City of Heroes (the game that City of Titans is striving to be a "spiritual successor" of) was its generalized setting which allowed players a huge amount of freedom to play and develop the stories and characters they wanted to have. Sure CoH had its own backstory and cast of NPCs but those things were only there to enhance your own creativity. In simple terms CoH didn't force you to have to accept any of its lore if you didn't want to. Hopefully CoT will follow in that model.
CoT is also expected to have a very strong character/costume creator and an alignment system which will be flexible in terms of hero versus villain styles of play. If it follows in CoH's footsteps these things should allow an unprecedented degree of freedom to essentially "do your own thing" storywise.

That's a very good point you have and I agree with you. Having a strict storyline is fine to me in like Lord Of The Rings Online or Star Trek Online, but I guess having more freedom storywise in a Superhero MMO is actually a good idea. That way I could at least in a way make my own Superhero AND his own story. Very good point. I'd still like to learn a bit more about the lore in City of Titans. Thanks for the reply

Well in the past two years or so the Devs of CoT have released a large amount of "lore/story" content on both this website and on the CoT Kickstarter page. Many of the various factions (both heroic and villainous) have been highlighted and discussed and information on many of the "notable NPCs" have been covered.

Many people use bits and pieces of this lore to provide background for their own characters. Obviously some people like to model their characters very closely to this material while others choose their own path. Either way good luck and welcome to the game. :)

Many people use bits and pieces of this lore to provide background for their own characters. Obviously some people like to model their characters very closely to this material while others choose their own path. Either way good luck and welcome to the game. :)

Thanks I hope I will enjoy the game

—

I am the terror that flaps in the night, I am the bug that delays a game's release.

They waited till they had something players could actually see and test, even if it is just pre-alpha, before asking for money, aka kickstarter. Unfortunately, by then, most everyone had already gave their money to CoT...$678,189 to be exact. Nearly two years later, there is still nothing for players to test. It is what it is...I just really feel bad for Valiance.

Decided to try the alpha. Just as I figured after looking at the production screens, the art style is VERY DCUO and features overly shiny costume pieces and cool-ish areas that suffer because of extreme shininess and color intensity. IMO, I rarely like anything with more color intensity than WoW (very few exceptions). So.. yeah, was going to pass at first. Now just going to avoid unless it's the only option.

Decided to try the alpha. Just as I figured after looking at the production screens, the art style is VERY DCUO and features overly shiny costume pieces and cool-ish areas that suffer because of extreme shininess and color intensity. IMO, I rarely like anything with more color intensity than WoW (very few exceptions). So.. yeah, was going to pass at first. Now just going to avoid unless it's the only option.

Metal is great. Super shiny metal is painful to look at. CoH had a good limit to how shiny its metal could be and Champions does even better (except in Canada and any areas that share its weird light source).

This is a simple example that highlights having more choices is pretty much always better. Depending on the situation (or particular character I'm playing) I sometimes prefer glossy color options and other times more matte colors. I could see where if a game heavily favored one over the other it would become annoyingly noticeable.

One case I recall from CoH was especially irksome: It had basic matte versions of "tights" for every major body area (top, pants bottom, bikini bottom, gloves and boots). It also had a "shiny" version of tights, but only for the top and pants bottom. This meant you could never use the shiny items with matching gloves, boots or bikini bottoms (to make complete shiny leotard-type outfits). For some reason the CoH Devs never bothered to finish giving us the rest of the "shiny" parts for that even after 8.5 years. *sigh*

I'm optimistic that the texturing that's been shown for CoT will allow us the ability to have full "shiny" or "not shiny" options as we choose.

I am no developer, but not sure they are ready. Has anyone played the pre-alpha? It is far from a resemblance of a game, it feels 19% complete imo. Not sure what they can do in a few months to justify moving to Steam, as I mentioned before, the game feels pretty much the same from the 2014 version, with a few minor model changes.

The worst thing they can do is to put the product on Steam; first impressions matter, knowing what I do about their developmental process and their definition of "progress" this game will be shot down after the Steam release.

There just isn't enough in that game, nor am I convinced they can change that in the coming months, cause the game feels the same from a year ago. Hopefully I am wrong.

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As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

An alpha test is normally understood to be "feature complete", which means all the major mechanics are available, since the purpose is to test these very game play mechanics. If you're looking for assets, i.e. completed zones and missions, etc., then you'll have to wait for their beta. An alpha really doesn't require more than one or two test zones.

Someone posted this on Steam Greenlight VO discussion page.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c_Mr-kv98I
Huuuuge difference from VO pre-alpha, and this pre-alpha. DCUO pre-alpha resembled a incomplete game.
VO's pre-alpha resembles something too far off to even be an incomplete game.
Their progress is extremely slow, not convinced they will suddenly put a foot on the gas and implement A1 features.
Tons of steam games are in the Early stages but feels like a game nonetheless, VO does not feel like anything, its awful atm.

Kind of agree with this. Besides the occasional Facebook posts that do show graphical improvements, as far a complete game the only thing that strangely keeps me a little positive is that they do not give any hard timelines. So, as far we know, this 'pre-alpha' could go on for another year(and may need to) before we get something resembling a complete game.
Once they get their new website up(which was supposed to be up a while ago), it will be interesting if the dev/player interaction increases. As far my experience, it appeared more active when they had their own forums on the old site. I just hope their pre-planning and current planning has laid out a path they can follow to completion because from what I've seen, though woefully incomplete, I want this game to make it to a live state. With the move to Unity 5, getting the senior animator on board and working out design with other former Paragon devs, there is too much positive I don't want to see disappear into limbo.

Supposedly, there is a "Big Announcement" coming up. This is laughable to me, because the game is indeed too far behind to announce anything worthwhile. I pretty much gave up on Valiance. Looking at Blade and Soul, Black Desert, and Titans atm.

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As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

Crowdfunding option is not a huge surprise if you have been following them long enough. You could donate on the old site and some of us(myself included) asked about continuing funding and also making sure we still get the credit for our previous funding. If they stick to the previous offering, your donated funds can be used, via a point system, in a special backer store.
Now if the crowdfunding is referencing a possible second Kickstarter(hopefully successful this time) then that is more of a big announcement imo. They better have some excellent gameplay to show if they want to have a successful KS campaign this time around.

This is a simple example that highlights having more choices is pretty much always better. Depending on the situation (or particular character I'm playing) I sometimes prefer glossy color options and other times more matte colors. I could see where if a game heavily favored one over the other it would become annoyingly noticeable.
One case I recall from CoH was especially irksome: It had basic matte versions of "tights" for every major body area (top, pants bottom, bikini bottom, gloves and boots). It also had a "shiny" version of tights, but only for the top and pants bottom. This meant you could never use the shiny items with matching gloves, boots or bikini bottoms (to make complete shiny leotard-type outfits). For some reason the CoH Devs never bothered to finish giving us the rest of the "shiny" parts for that even after 8.5 years. *sigh*
I'm optimistic that the texturing that's been shown for CoT will allow us the ability to have full "shiny" or "not shiny" options as we choose.

One would hope so, given that even under "old style" (pre-UE4, non-PBR) stuff "shiny" basically meant having a relatively high peak specular reflection aligned to the viewing axis, with a fairly sharp drop-off as the angle increased, and that is the sort of thing that should generally be handled by having a separate specular layer (as UE3 did).

UE4, their page on PBR gives a very good set of examples on "what is shiny and why" when dealing with physical based rendering -- but it means that in theory so long as the material is defined similarly, you can make any costume piece out of it and it should Just Look Right(tm).

While theory and reality don't always cross paths, the things that drive "shiny" (or lack thereof) are all pretty fundamental-level optics, so you kind of have to support them well to get anything more complex working at all.

I actually dont care for an exact release date. I'm the kind of guy that gets happy when i see Any Real progress.. doesn't matter which department either. But i'll admit I find 3D more intriguing to work with, and learn much more about.

I myself am playing with Unity 3D and trying to optimize the tools that allows others to make UI's.. and I've been struggling to get All the single images to only perform a single Draw/Pass call. And I finally have it doing that now, but it took me months more that I predicted. :P

example: Can draw thousands of individual independent resizable windows with just One Pass.
And it Still needs allot more work. :/

So I understand that many of the Devs think that its gonna be a heck of allot easier to roll back and redo things right now, then trying to do it once the game is up and running for all. I'm on the Devs side as far as that goes. But, I'll like to draw the line at a certain set of features, so feature creep isnt always looming.
But, if one of the features postponed for a later version might directly affect one of the features in the current release version(s), it's a good idea to go back and reCode the Base Feature to allow for the future Feature to work when its added in the next release.. instead of leaving it all for the next version. That's not how business works though, when deadlines loom. :/
But the Devs at MWM might feel they can stretch their legs and do things that work in their favor, since most of the deadlines are Soft. :)
Caveat is, Not All backers will agree to this POV of always having Soft Deadlines. Only 60% or so?!? :P

And yes, Right Now, I ONLY care what the backers impressions are. Since they will be the ones that will fund the next KS or the like. To please the majority of us, MWM doesn't HAVE to release the AB right now, but just SHOW Progress! Us KS backers just need the Good FEELz of Real Progress! ;)

VO has been quiet for quite some time. Apparently, they are working on getting a new server. Comments have been removed from the "Official site." Those on the FB page are worried, no response or peep out of the devs. Nobody has been able to contact anyone, nor are they replying. The fans are saying "Its over" while the devs stay quiet.

Guess we should be happy the CoT devs are actually communicating with us? Albeit it may be what we want to hear, but nonetheless, keeping us posted. VO players have been left out to dry on numerous occasions, this does not appear to be the first time. There is nothing wrong with being mum, but they want players to be part of the developmental process, hence i suppose they could tell them a little something? I don't know.

I think the demise of VO is exaggerated, but would not surprise me. Their progress has been nonexistent. They post notes of a huge update, but every time I play it, there is a "meh" feel. VO does not have a professional feel to it, ya know?

—

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

This is why we make so few promises. Except very broad ones, which are sorta the minimum requirement. No, we don't tell you what you want to hear, we tell you what we can be honest about. Trying to make too many big promises, hints to grand things and so on, at this stage, we could only undermine faith for the future.

That said, Valiance's pre-alpha was, even officially, more like pre-pre-alpha.

Guess we should be happy the CoT devs are actually communicating with us? Albeit it may be what we want to hear, but nonetheless, keeping us posted. VO players have been left out to dry on numerous occasions, this does not appear to be the first time.

This is something of a yes-and-no. Of course we should be happy to have members of MWM willing to engage with us so frequently (and to such an extent). However, going silent for three or more weeks - holiday season or not - is some seriously bad mojo. Surely someone could scrape together half a minute to post something like, "Sorry, we're going to have to put our noses to the grind stone so you may not hear much for a few weeks." After all, Twitter was practically made for stuff like this.

Falling off the planet like this is something a business can ill afford to do, in this day and age. Especially if it comes on the heels of a "major announcement".

Someone stated that they are in the midst of a "HUGE" announcement soon. Lol......well....lets see, judging from their track record, expect the same state of the game from this time last year. I am in "Believe it when I see it mode" with these guys. Unless they did a complete re-haul, VO is not a promising project. They keep putting their foot in their mouth with these false promises. i don't mean "Releasing on X date" but rather, they really feel like progress is being made, promising huge updates only to deliver a similar pre-pre-alpha feel.

Also, that "Soon" crap the VO devs keep throwing out there as a joke was was never funny. VO's progress is funny, a joke.

—

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

Agreed. They have actually been going downhill in their models progress since the first alpha in my opinion. At first it was one map that looked almost like a clone of Atlas Park. Then it became a... big, larger map with ugly buildings that was just a total mess. The lack of communication to me is like the game has died before it was born. I still have faith for this project due to the blunt honesty and communication. Rushing to show something in the way I've seen VO do is just.. an utter mistake.

I like VO. I think my biggest issue is/was with their engine (I do not like the Unity engine especially not the last gen) the way i do Unreal. Even DCUO is in Unreal engine and I like the way it mixes realism with comic-ism.

Now.. if they want to fall in line (no more cooks in the kitchen) and combine the Project Z projects once again behind the vision of CoT .. I would not be mad about it. I'd rather have one really GREAT game than 3 in competition for players.

I especially think the collaborative effort of VO and CoT will continue to be appreciated. I don't know personally what's going on there but IF they reached a point where they couldn't continue development I think they'd let their community know.

I like VO. I think my biggest issue is/was with their engine (I do not like the Unity engine especially not the last gen) the way i do Unreal. Even DCUO is in Unreal engine and I like the way it mixes realism with comic-ism.
Now.. if they want to fall in line (no more cooks in the kitchen) and combine the Project Z projects once again behind the vision of CoT .. I would not be mad about it. I'd rather have one really GREAT game than 3 in competition for players.
I especially think the collaborative effort of VO and CoT will continue to be appreciated. I don't know personally what's going on there but IF they reached a point where they couldn't continue development I think they'd let their community know.

+1.

But, I am curious how much better Valiance Online will be.. with the very latest version of Unity3D, which has some impressive upgrades. Granted, some of the older shaders VO was using will have to be thrown out and each and every 3D object will have to use the latest shaders, which look amazing from some of the samples i've seen. All this Just translates to more effort and patience needed to make VO look a little closer to say... Unreal Engine

example: same architecture rendered in each engine. (this was for the previous version of Unity3D btw)

...

Actually, in the current Unity3D version, you might see more scenes like this:

It's funny. When I see Unity vs Unreal, I always have the same reaction. They both look awesome, but when I see the Unity I think "wow, that looks amazing!", and when I see the Unreal (ironically enough), I tend to think, "wow, that looks REAL."

I wish Valiance all the luck in the world. It's not a zero sum game. One great game would be good. Two great games would be even better. But I do think, being out front from the beginning, Valiance has taken the chances and inadvertently demonstrated a good bit of what NOT to do.

And I get the sense MWM has been paying close attention, and learning.

Hmm.. Perhaps it still has hope but I'm very reserved on that. I had high hopes for it at first but I just don't know.. Just seemed to get messy ever since they left their original map, not that it was even close to being perfect. Time will tell. They have a great concept in itself and I could care less what engine they are running, I just haven't seen much on the lines of development in anything really. Like they keep trying to remake their entire game for no real reason and aren't sure what they want. If they can manage to get something going in the next few months or maybe even year then I might change my opinion since at first it really did seem like it was following the spiritual idea of CoH in gameplay mechanics at the very least.

When I discovered these (VO, CoT and H&V) little over a year ago it looked like VO was the one that had progressed the most because I erroneously mistook having a playable version out with progress. Over time though it certainly looks like CoT is the most progressed one, especially after VO shut down most communication. Haven't really kept tabs on H&V but a quick look over doesn't put it ahead of CoT.

I think the biggest mistake VO has done was to put out a publicly accessible client before settling on the underlying technology. Redoing many of the underlying technologies (animation system, character creator and so on) and not having all of them properly done (no proper travel, activatable passives, no CC or proper debuffs/buffs, dodgeable heals and many more) while having a public client out can't be good in the long run. Add to that how long they have dragged out Soontm for their big announcement (what, 5-6 months?) and that they "removed" their existing site before having a proper replacement and it certainly haven't gained them any bonus points.

When I discovered these (VO, CoT and H&V) little over a year ago it looked like VO was the one that had progressed the most because I erroneously mistook having a playable version out with progress. Over time though it certainly looks like CoT is the most progressed one, especially after VO shut down most communication. Haven't really kept tabs on H&V but a quick look over doesn't put it ahead of CoT.
I think the biggest mistake VO has done was to put out a publicly accessible client before settling on the underlying technology. Redoing many of the underlying technologies (animation system, character creator and so on) and not having all of them properly done (no proper travel, activatable passives, no CC or proper debuffs/buffs, dodgeable heals and many more) while having a public client out can't be good in the long run. Add to that how long they have dragged out Soontm for their big announcement (what, 5-6 months?) and that they "removed" their existing site before having a proper replacement and it certainly haven't gained them any bonus points.

And running that public exhibition costs money, a lot of it. If we'd taken that track, yes, we could have done a "pre-alpha demo" ages ago, but it would have burned up funds we'd rather use somewhere else.

—

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

That's our powers coder, AmIEvil, at work. What you can see does not reflect a finished product, and is filled with a ton of debug info, like those icons, which will not be there when finished. He has been working on powers for awhile, both on his own and now with us. It's not "ready for release" by any means, but is fun none the less.

—

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

That's our powers coder, AmIEvil, at work. What you can see does not reflect a finished product, and is filled with a ton of debug info, like those icons, which will not be there when finished. He has been working on powers for awhile, both on his own and now with us. It's not "ready for release" by any means, but is fun none the less.

Fun indeed!!

—

AI Coder,Animator,FX Guy,Blueprint Guru,Etc... You have an army? We have a Fred.

Servers should be back up soon, according to them. Personally, i am not interested in playing a per-pre-alpha game. It is unplayable imo. Will wait until Steam Early access, if they ever manage to get there......

I have one question though, serious question; how can they go into early access in 2016 with the product they currently have? The game (If you want to call it that) seems so far behind in the developmental process. I am no developer, just going by the eye test, VO is unplayable atm...not sure how some volunteers came press on the gas during 2016 to make it an acceptable product. For instance, VO alpha in 2014 feels similar to VO in 2015........

—

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

That's our powers coder, AmIEvil, at work. What you can see does not reflect a finished product, and is filled with a ton of debug info, like those icons, which will not be there when finished. He has been working on powers for awhile, both on his own and now with us. It's not "ready for release" by any means, but is fun none the less.

It's a relief to hear (see?) you say that. The icons were REALLY distracting.