Hey Donny, great to have you on the forum. I dig the little video clip of your playing on your Drummerworld page. Those are the kind of funky beats I am currently trying to develop (I'm studying the styles of the great Clyde Stubblefield and Jabo Starks). Your expertise with loops is very interesting to me, so it's cool you've put out a book on the subject. Again, great to have you here.

i'm asking all the pros this question. i think the answers could be very instructive to many of us.
let's say there was a totally new drum rudiment that was suddenly discovered and was so totally applicable that any drummer worth their salt would quickly try to learn it, master it and use it in recordings and gigs. this hypothetical new rudiment is quite hard to play and totally unrelated to any other rudiment. it is so good that you know that the next time you sit in on a session the writer is probably going to ask you to use it somewhere in their song.
my question is: starting from scratch what would be your way of learning it?

This is a great question. Many of my students at PIT have difficulty learning a new piece of unfamiliar material from “scratch”. My answer may be too in depth; but I would rather be thorough for everyone.

Talk soon,

Donny G
_______________

Here it goes:

Subdivision:
First off, I would examine the new rudiment’s rhythmic subdivision. Is it 16th notes? 8th notes? 8th note triplets or sextuplets? For the sake of this response, let’s say that this new rudiment is straight 16th notes. Wit this in mind, I will set my click track to play every 16th note subdivision.

Rhythm – play it slow to understand it properly
Secondly, I will practice this new rudiments rhythm at a very slow tempo. (Around 50-55 bpm’s with the click every 16th subdivision.) This will help me to understand the rudiments “skeleton” and shape. I will strive to line up every note of this rudiment with the click’s 16th notes. This will help with the spacing of each note, as well as my time in general. Remember, if I do not understand the rhythm – then I cannot play the pattern properly or musically. Thus, slow and steady is the key (I can always bump up the tempo later).

Motion: Preparation strokes
Once I have the previous two concepts under my belt, it would be time to examine if my motions look/feel comfortable. Are there any “preparation strokes” that will help me to play this more fluidly? (Upstrokes, down strokes and the like..) If so, I will add them now. At this point, I can now examine my body’s movement as well. Do I feel comfortable? Am I tensing up? If so, I will do my best to relax. I may stay at this practice point for a while...

Combine all the previous steps: add orchestrations
Once I have isolated all these items and they feel comfortable – I will put them together. Now, I will develop a few orchestrations around the kit (again, at a slow tempo). These could be as follows:

Fill/solo ideas
1. Right Hand accents on the floor tom and Left Hand accents on the high tom. (Unaccented notes on the snare)
2. Use the same formula as number 1; but put the accents on the bass drum and crash cymbals.
3. Combine both numbers 1 and 2 into your own voicing.
4. Now, use them in a musical context: Play 3 bars of time and on the fourth bar – play this new rudiment. Thus, you are now playing a four bar phrase.

Time ideas:
1. Play the Hihat, BD and Snare in a normal time keeping fashion. Right hand accents would be on the HH (RH) and Bass Drum. Left hand accents would be on the snare. This would most likely sound like a Gadd rudimental groove or linear pattern. (Depending on the rudiment itself).
2. Again, put it into a musical phrase: 3 bars of normal groove time and then insert this orchestration on the fourth bar. (Another 4 bar phrase)
3. Musical Phrase 2: Play the Groove from time idea number 1 for three bars and insert a fill on the fourth bar.

Combinations
At this stage, the sky is the limit. Try your best to combine all the previous ideas into your own musical licks and phrases.

** Throughout these orchestrations and as I get more comfortable with these patterns -- I would gradually increase the tempo. In addition, I would also subtract subdivisions from the click — to eventually end up with quarter notes (on the click). For example: Start w/ 16ths, put it on 8ths for a while – then quarter notes.

Throughout this lengthy process – it is important to enjoy yourself and think musically.
If anyone has questions – please feel free to write/e mail anytime.

hell of an answer donny. exactly what i was aiming for. i particularly like the first three points:

Quote:

Subdivision:
First off, I would examine the new rudiment’s rhythmic subdivision. Is it 16th notes? 8th notes? 8th note triplets or sextuplets? For the sake of this response, let’s say that this new rudiment is straight 16th notes. Wit this in mind, I will set my click track to play every 16th note subdivision.

Rhythm – play it slow to understand it properly
Secondly, I will practice this new rudiments rhythm at a very slow tempo. (Around 50-55 bpm’s with the click every 16th subdivision.) This will help me to understand the rudiments “skeleton” and shape. I will strive to line up every note of this rudiment with the click’s 16th notes. This will help with the spacing of each note, as well as my time in general. Remember, if I do not understand the rhythm – then I cannot play the pattern properly or musically. Thus, slow and steady is the key (I can always bump up the tempo later).

Motion: Preparation strokes
Once I have the previous two concepts under my belt, it would be time to examine if my motions look/feel comfortable. Are there any “preparation strokes” that will help me to play this more fluidly? (Upstrokes, down strokes and the like..) If so, I will add them now. At this point, I can now examine my body’s movement as well. Do I feel comfortable? Am I tensing up? If so, I will do my best to relax. I may stay at this practice point for a while...

i've got to say in particular this last one is the most interesting to me as i have often learned a rudiment on a pad at a slow tempo but then battled to move beyond that. things like ratamacues and the flam family are good examples of where thought needs to be paid about what movement and position comes before, during and after each stroke of the piece.
the jeff queen DVD i got a couple of months ago really jumped this concept out at me and has helped alot. in some ways drumming is like playing professional pool. sinking the balls is important but making sure the cue ball ends up in a good place for the next shot is just as important.
sometimes this happens naturally as a subconscious need to be ready for the next stroke but many patterns require a conscious drilling of a movement to program the body for the higher tempos.

Hello Jason,
Thanks for the quick reply! In addition, (and although I am unfamilar w/ the Jeff Queen DVD) I learned the motions/preparations from a rudimental snare drum book entitled Haskell Harr Book 2. It has sections for each rudiment and within each of those sections it diplays the different variations of the rudiments notation -- as well as detailed diagrams (using arrows and photos) of the particular rudiments proper motion(s). (Upstrokes, preparations etc..) After that, it has short solos that isolate each rudiment. Thus, by the end of the text - you are effectively playing combination solos that include all the rudiments (with the proper motions).

I think that it is still in print and approx. 12 dollars. Well worth the investment (if anyone is interested).

in the August 1992 issue of modern drummer there was a great and useful article titled: THE 25 GREATEST DRUM RECORDS. because of it i bought steely dan's AJA in a time when i was almost exclusively addicted to AC/DC.
they wrote this article by researching across the industry but in particular they asked some of the top guys for their top ten selections. i'm hoping to do a similar thing here on DW and post the reults in a separate thread eventually.
So if you would be so kind please give us a list of your own top ten (perhaps your current top 10) records/albums. it would be helpful if you identified your favourite out of those and dropped in a line why it is so...but this is not totally necessary. think of it like if you were going to be locked in a remote log cabin for a whole winter, which 10 albums would you take, if 10 were all you could take?

Hello Jason,
As for the Haskell Harr book -- shoot me an e mail from the contact page of my site www.donnygruendler.com. If you provide me with your address, I would be happy to send a book your way....

As for the top ten recordings, that is a super tough decision. However, here area list of my all-time favorites (that seem to always end up in iPod playlist):

Hello Everybody,
Ahh.. a nice morning in California. Just having some coffee and checking some e mails. With this in mind, I have received many e mails lately -- and many of them as the age old question "how to practice". Well, I know there are thousands of valid methods on the subject. However, since our common aim in the DW forum is to share knowledge. - I thought I would pass along a response that I have sent to one such drummer friend...
I hope this helps out there!

Donny G

Excerpt of the Question:
I finally have the opportunity to invest more time in what I love, and that's getting regular time behind a kit again.

I hope to get a little advice - your opinion means a lot. I really wanted to know how you practiced. What warm-ups and practice methods or routines do you employ? I'm not a beginner, but find my playing kind of trapped in a rut, if you know what I mean. I realize there are a hundred avenues to go with this, but I'm looking for any and all advice you could give.

Excerpt of the Response:

Preparation
The most important thing to do is actually prior to your practice session.
Before you even sit down at your kit, it is very important to decide what
item/items to be accomplished that day, week and month. For example: Do not
sit down, "jam" at the kit -- and then examine what else you need to work
on.. That is called playing. (Playing is running through what you already
know how to do -- and do quite well.) This is wonderful for having fun
(which we need to do) as well as for finding inspiration. However, do not
confuse it with practicing.

Practicing on the other hand is actually working on things that are new,
challenging or difficult for you to accomplish in the here and now.
Anything that you cannot do easily or comfortably. Thus, develop a list of
goals for that day, the rest of the week and then the month. Take notes each
day on what you have worked on, the tempos covered and what still needs
work. Then review them (and build upon them)the next day... This will insure
consistent progress and help you make the most of your practice time each
day. As these initial items get easier -- add new goals and difficulties to
your practice session list. The great thing about this is that it can be
applied to any drumming subject that you wish to learn.

An example within context:
So lets just say that you play 4/4 8th note rock very well; but your one
handed 16th note grooves are uncomfortable to play -- and make groove. Put
this on your list of things to accomplish. Take note that 80 bpms is OK; but
95 bpms is still difficult. In addition, also that 2 note BD patterns are
fine; but groups of three (or four) are difficult. Then, work on this for a
while, take some detailed notes, make some progress and then reward yourself
with fun (inspiration). Thus could be done with a short jam session to a 8th
note groove and CD track etc... Make sense? Furthermore, any warm-ups that
you could do would also work in tandem with this one handed 16th note groove
goal. i.e. warming up on the snare with alternating 16ths, then rrll, rrrr
llll, etc. This will prepare you to tackle your new goal.

Anyway, I hope this helps and please feel free to write again with any
additional questions. Have a great day and I look forward to talking with
you soon.

Hello Vincent,
I appologize for my late reply -- It has been a very busy summer here in Los Angeles! In addition, you have asked one great question! (It is one that I answer quite a bit for my students at Musicians Institute as well).

With this in mind, I believe that if you are organized - you can accomplish quite a bit in an hour of practice. Thus (and if you only have an hour to practice), I suggest that you work your fundamentals.

This would include timekeeping (in both triplet and straight 8th based grooves), followed by reading and any independence issues that arise from the previous two. This way you are working on things that will help you directly - for both recording and live performance. Furthermore, and when you have extra time (after working on your fundamentals) - you can reward yourself by playing to your favorite CD.

I hope this helps.. I could write and talk about this for hours! Please feel free to write or email anytime with additional questions or concerns.
Donny

Hello Donny.
Thakns for your reply! I was thinking of something along those lines. Cos if i play solid i have no problems with time but its amazing how doing fills can send you out of time if you don't concentrate. But thanks nfor replying. It means alot.
// Vincent.

Hey Vincent,
In regards to playing fills within your time -feel -- that can be quite difficult (even for the most experienced players). With this in mind, I share this exercise with all my students at PIT:

At a comfortable tempo on your click track--- Play one bar of time followed by a one bar fill. Thus, you are playing a two bar phrase. (If you use an 4 or 8 bar phrase and you are a "little off" on your transition -- you still have many bars to get back on the click.)

However, my suggested method does not allow you time to adjust to the click. (as your fill transitions into only one bar of time). Therefore, this will help you to work on (and tighten up) your transitions in a much more focused and effective manner.

Hello Bernhard and all you fellow drummers on DW,
It is a beautiful day here in Los Angeles and I thought that I would write everyone to say "Hello". Also - I apologize for not posting more regularly; but my family and I were in the middle of a huge addition and remodel of our house. Now that it has concluded and life is settling back in -- I wanted to share some exciting news with each of you.

"The Drum Room"
You see, part of the construction included a newly built (and fully sound-proofed) drum recording studio. It is especially wonderful that I have not bothered my neighbors w/ my drums since! There are two rooms - a small control room and a medium tracking space of 16x19 w/ 12 foot ceilings that angle downward to 9ft at a 45 degree angle.

One kit stays mic'ed up at all times and can be recorded in either Pro Tools or Nuendo. Furthermore, and rather than having a window between rooms (which can compromise the sound-proofing itself) - I used networked cameras which display both rooms activities simultaneously. So for all you drum studio/gear fanatics - I have posted some picts at Flikr: http://flickr.com/photos/26052066@N0...963978/detail/

Thanks for taking a look and I hope to talk with each of you soon.
Donny

Hello Digga-Digga-Burr,
Thanks for taking the time to check in, say hello and write. I also apologize in my tardy response – I have been traveling quite a bit.

As for PIT, I do think that it is a wonderful place to learn, live and breath drums. You will get to study with some very talented faculty, play drums many hours a day, learn many different styles, improve your sound and time and ultimately -- get better at an accelerated rate. Due to the schools Hollywood, CA location, students also get access to auditions and meeting working musicians that “could” help them get work.

However (and with that being said), it is not just a place to get jobs and integrate into the music scene. This can only be accomplished if the student is working hard and can meet the requirements of a particular bandleader, artist or any other working professional. So if you want to attend – prepare to work hard.

Although, if you feel like you are already playing at a professional level – then my advice is to “give it a go” and just move to Los Angeles/Hollywood or NYC and begin to integrate yourself into the scene.

Good morning Bernhard,
Greetings from sunny California - and thanks for taking the time to say hello. I certainly hope that you are doing well and enjoying life!

In addition (and for all fellow DW readers/members), I just updated my website. It has new audio clips from various records, and updated picts of the studio as well. Please feel free to take a look around, check in and write....

Hi Donny, I just wanted to thank you for your exercises on time sound and form. They helped me to clean up some grooves that sounded like shit:) (I practice this every day) I spent years trying to find better foot technique (working on this motion, watching, observing, practicing heal-toe back and forth for hours) Now I realize it wasn't a technical (motion) problem, it was problem with shity spacing (subdivisions) in my head and bad timing. After few hours of this exercise the problem disappeared

Thanx man:)

I bought your book immediatley (playing with loops)

P.S.
I am also from croatia, you are very popular in Balkan as you can see;)

Hey Toza,
You are quite welcome! I am really glad that my exercises helped your playing. Many more of those exercises from the Firth site have been re-recorded and released in full-form (and in greater detail) @ Hudson Music. The series is called Private Lessons and it is a Digi-download.

In addition -- and once you have worked through all the Time, sound and Form stuff - I suggest that you make some practice playlists on your iPod. Make each playlist by "groove family" -- and from slow to fast - for example:

This will take some time to compile; but once you do -- you will have the ultimate organized groove practicing tool. This will help you to stay organized, focused and accomplish clear groove goals from your practice routine. Especially as you may get burnt out on practicing exercises w/ the click.

So together: the click and the iPod can really work - if utilized correctly.

Donny,
I dont know if you remember me man, its been a loooooong time, but my names Britt and I took a lesson with you in LA like 3 or 4 years ago. Still use those exercises you gave me to work on time. All the 16th note permutations, the sloooooow metronome, put it into my jazz practice too. Just wanted to say thank you for that and hope everything is goin great.
Hope you are well!
Britt

Hi Donny I have question about Time, sound and Form exercise. When you play grooves that don't have snare on only 2 and 4
grooves like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLyUxP3Vv0g
so in this third part of exercise (after cymbals) i play this groove with every snare hit or only i hit on 2 and 4 and play kick part as it goes?

Hi Donny I have question about Time, sound and Form exercise. When you play grooves that don't have snare on only 2 and 4
grooves like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLyUxP3Vv0g
so in this third part of exercise (after cymbals) i play this groove with every snare hit or only i hit on 2 and 4 and play kick part as it goes?

Hey Toza,
I suppose that would be up to you. Originally, I developed the time, sound and form exercises for backbeat based grooves. However, there is nothing to say that you couldn't apply these same principles of the excercise (the snare/kick, snare/kick/cymbals, 1 handed 16ths and 8th grooves) alongside your non-standard (I.e. non- 2 & 4 based) grooves.

If you do decide to move forward - please send me some transcriptions. I would love to see how you elaborated on these concepts. Best of luck!
Donny