This is blatant insider trading , they are fleecing the public on a daily basis , read it and weep,

Britain’s Financial Services Authority is probing whether banks’ proprietary-trading desks exploited information they had about the direction of Libor to trade interest-rate derivatives, potentially defrauding their firms’ counterparties, the people said. The investigation may lead to civil fines for the banks and criminal charges for the traders involved.The rate, a benchmark for about $360 trillion of financial products worldwide, is derived from a survey of banks conducted daily on behalf of the British Bankers’ Association in London.Manipulating RatesThe lenders are asked how much it would cost them to borrow from one another for 15 different periods, from overnight to one year, in currencies including dollars, euros, yen and Swiss francs. After a predetermined number of quotes are excluded, those remaining are averaged and published for each currency by the BBA before noon.Regulators worldwide are investigating whether banks attempted to manipulate the London, Tokyo and euro interbank offered rates, known as Libor, Tibor and Euribor. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, U.S. Department of Justice, and Japan’s Financial Supervisory Agency are all involved. The probes are being led separately, with individual regulators sharing some information among themselves.

Stox quote So its once more been left to the Labour leadership to call to call for a leveson style inquiry to discover in a methodical way what has gone wrong and why. I could not agree more with this. as its far too late to having some right wing cover up while everyone wallpapers over the deep problems within the banking sector. Ed Balls and Ed Miliband know full well they have left themselves wide open to a political and banking back-lash. Just like Brown was told he would face if he gave the FSA real banking teeth. But it has to be done not just because it right but because the whole world banking and finance sector knows it must be done if you wish to still have a financial service sector of any note. if not the world markets will do it for us.

As I understand it this thread was originally about the fixing of interest rates. Thus my comment about a Public enquiry stands.

However, I agree with Stox that the whole Banking and Financial Sector needs to come under scrutiny to bring back the confidence of those who have dealings with them.

Again I say that I believe the general public are not too concerned as long as it has not 'cost' them.

We seem to have forgotten how easy it was for the Playground Bully to make kids' lives a misery at school, until someone stood up to them.

From the phone-hacking enquiry it emerged that for years, powerful newspaper editors made it known to Politicial Parties dependent upon their support that too many controls on the Press would not result to their advantage.

Now the FSA and the BoE have confirmed similar threats from the City Spivs that they would throw their rattles out of the pram if too closely regulated.

What a spineless lot our Leaders seem to have been. Whatever happened to the notion of sue and be damned!

Quite right OW, pointless spending £millions on yet another pointless enquiry, if the rules have been broken regardless of the velvet gloves they were monitored with, then somebody has committed fraud, as there seems to be more than one person involved then a very public criminal court case should clear the air. Those that want to leave should be helped to an aeroplane.

Last edited by tlttf on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : bad spelling)

There is nothing within politics like distorting and distracting both the main news media and absent-minded weak Tory MP’S away from Barclays bank or the lack accountability of the UK financial system, by starting up a pointless debate on the question of a yes or no vote over the UK’S membership of the EU.

Here we are with a banking culture that is rotten and full of cynicism and personal greed with the whole of the UK’S financial reputation on the line after the deceitful manipulation or even possible fraudulent manipulation the Libor rate and what is our Prime Minister and the Tory party filling the UK airwaves with? Yes the old right wing operatic white elephant of A Vote on Europe after 2015. What does this show and tell the whole world about the state of UK politics?

I tell you what it tells us all, that our Government is living in some dreamland that is obsessed with it own internal party politics and the in fighting within the Tory party. Instead of taking opportunities to deal with a complex issue like our whole financial system that has for far to long ridden rough shot over the whole UK. Ask yourselves one key question? Do I really need the UK Prime Minister to give me some clarification over a possible EU vote in 2016 0r 2017 over EU Membership or do we need some real action to clean up our financial and banking sector of our economy?

Well the answer appears to be that our Prime Minister is far more interested in Tory party EU naval-gazing over Europe which has now reached almost a Olympian level within there party. Well too be totally honest with everyone on here.. I could not care one little bit right now about the Tory parties turgid exercise in there internal parties advanced irritable syndrome with all things European. But I am very interested about the need too up hold the UK’S reputation in the face of a world wide economic crisis.

As lets be very clear about all of this… The Tory party unbalanced the UK economy in 1983 with the big bang of de-regulation of the City of London. Its there policy that started all this mess off in the first place. I am just not interested in there supporters or parties turgid excuses in blaming the last government for not having cleaned up after there mess of de-regulation in 1983. As if they had not de-regulated the City of London in the first place… NO one would have had to try and re-regulate it after there cock-up later.

Now the right wingers can drizzle on about the role of the FSA all they like. But everyone knows that the Tory party and there banking friends spent millions of pounds watering it down, so that it had no teeth at all. But what they cannot run away from is the fact that the Libor rate is managed by the bank of England, as its there Key rate for inter banking lending within the banking system. It would be quite stupid anyway for the FSA to check the Libor rate everyday with all the others things to now seek them to do. As they only investigate anything when they are asked too or if something looks well out of order. However, The bank of England does and its phoned to them each day too.

Yeah - but the greedy bankers are only following the example set to them by those repugnant greedy benefit scroungers. It's the hordes of immoral unemployed leechers that we really need to blame for the state of the nation. These people live the life of riley at decent hardworking people's expense - if bankers see these spongers living it up at our expense, who can really blame them for doing the same?

Chip. That sort of suggestion plays very nicely into Camerons Tory propaganda machine and lends itself to making excuses for criminal bankers. Remember not all benefit claimants are "scroungers" and the Tories and their supporting press tend to highlight a few selected bad cases to arouse anger in folk such as yourself. In doing so raising public opinion in favour of their desire to eliminate the benefit system.

trevorw2539 wrote:Stox quote So its once more been left to the Labour leadership to call to call for a leveson style inquiry to discover in a methodical way what has gone wrong and why. I could not agree more with this. as its far too late to having some right wing cover up while everyone wallpapers over the deep problems within the banking sector. Ed Balls and Ed Miliband know full well they have left themselves wide open to a political and banking back-lash. Just like Brown was told he would face if he gave the FSA real banking teeth. But it has to be done not just because it right but because the whole world banking and finance sector knows it must be done if you wish to still have a financial service sector of any note. if not the world markets will do it for us.

As I understand it this thread was originally about the fixing of interest rates. Thus my comment about a Public enquiry stands.

However, I agree with Stox that the whole Banking and Financial Sector needs to come under scrutiny to bring back the confidence of those who have dealings with them.

Again I say that I believe the general public are not too concerned as long as it has not 'cost' them.

Trevorw you state that.... I understand it this thread was originally about the fixing of interest rates.... Well the deceitful manipulation or even possible fraudulent manipulation the Libor rate is just that. it is the fixing of the interest rates. but overall we both agree for the most part that the banking and financial sector need looking at. but to try and even attempt such a undertaking with a group of back bench MPs is not the answer at all. as no disrespect to any of them but with all the best will in the world they will never get to the bottom of this issue. It need a real public enquiry with a group of people who have some understanding of how the City of London works. The very idea that any group of MP's even Labour ones can ever hope to understand this is just crazy. as for the charge that this is just one more pointless enquiry need to see a doctor at once. as this is so serious that it could well see the end of the City of London's role as one of the key financial economic markets within the world. as believe me Trevor, that when i say this is serious I am not joking in anyway. as there are law suit being filed within the US as I write. what's more this is only one country and there will be many more too come over this matter.

if we fail to hold a public enquiry into this, then the world markets will pass judgement on our banking sector without us. Now we can all try to forget about this or even believe that we can wallpaper over the fixing of a key world banking rate then your just dreaming. as the Libor rate is the key rate in your mortgage interest you pay. now the litigation over this most stupid act is going to cost us all. its also right to say the original topic posted was proved quite right by the poster. what's more it will be shown to be quite right. Now we can debate this if people wish? But I am not interested in that now. but am very interested in what action is taken over this here in the UK? I am not even that interested in what other economies do over this. as quite frankly its pointless. but we must get a full grip on this issue and fast. Public enquiry shows we are going to take real action over this mess and are not trying to cover this up with some wet MP'S Q & A session by a well meaning group of MP's.

Me I would be thinking very hard on this issue if I was Cameron and Gideon. as if they cock this up then you can forget our economy ever getting back on its feet for the next 30 years. its this that they are playing with right now.

It is very important to ascertain which LIBOR rate your mortgage is set against. This will be clearly defined in your mortgage contract. If you are unable to locate the exact rate then you should speak to your lender. On top of the LIBOR rate, each mortgage lender charges a fixed premium based on your individual circumstances at the time your lender offered your mortgage. This premium will vary between different borrowers but will be a fixed amount above the relevant LIBOR rate.

FT publish LIBOR on their website, However,The Macro Financial Analysis Division of the Bank of England estimates yield curves for the UK on a daily basis. They are of two kinds. One set is based on yields on UK government bonds (gilts) and includes nominal and real yield curves and the inflation term structure for the United Kingdom. The other set is based on sterling interbank rates (LIBOR) and on yields on instruments linked to LIBOR, short sterling futures, forward rate agreements and LIBOR-based interest rate swaps. These commercial bank liability curves are nominal only. the truth is the Macro Financial Analysis Division of the Bank of England who check this on a daily basis should of picked this up.

Last edited by Stox 16 on Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:34 am; edited 2 times in total

sickchip wrote:ffs mel, haven't you worked out I'm about 100 steps to the left of you and all the other New Labour centrist a la Blair (verging on right-wing) posters on here.

I think I can work that bit out Sick Chip. but that sad fact is this banking mess does change because we are centre left of extreme Left or even Right wing. as its about how we live. I myself have had great issues of the whole question of how the banking and finance sector has been run for quite a long time. but this goes past that and has moved it on too a whole new level Chip.

I believe that is true Chip. however, its only now that its been uncovered Chip. that is the problem. so it now needs to come to any end. so while we both agree on that is been happening for a long time its only now the lid has been finally been blown off this. its just one more Tory party and Right wing economic mess that has to be sorted. Still what did they call it at the time..... yes that is it...cutting banking red tape.... funny that Chip yes?

you state that.... I understand it this thread was originally about the fixing of interest rates.... Well the deceitful manipulation or even possible fraudulent manipulation the Libor rate is just that. it is the fixing of the interest rates. but overall we both agree for the most part that the banking and financial sector need looking at. but to try and even attempt such a undertaking with a group of back bench MPs is not the answer at all. as no disrespect to any of them but with all the best will in the world they will never get to the bottom of this issue. It need a real public enquiry with a group of people who have some understanding of how the City of London works. The very idea that any group of MP's even Labour ones can ever hope to understand this is just crazy. as for the charge that this is just one more pointless enquiry need to see a doctor at once.

Not quoted whole post.

I'm not good at making myself clear. My point is that the fraud squad should look into the interest fixing.

That the financial and banking sector overall need a full inquiry I agree.

I would offer my services but my knowledge of banking checking is to see my pension has been deposited and then to see that it is spent on bills

I do not pretend to understand how the banking industry works exactly, but I do believe that things appear to be so bad and corrupt that the government ought to send in teams from the Treasurey to watch and monitor what is going on.

Sending in observors from the BoE or The Treasurey to watch, listen and question everything that goes on for say 1 year would surely uncover any dodgey dealings, unethical practices or ilegal goings on.

The public have no faith in the banks, they are not trusted, and the British people have also lost faith in both the ability and willingness of the government to bring the banks to heel and make them tow the line, its time for something fairly radical and drastic to be done, no more pussyfooting around.

I don't think we will get anything else other than "pussyfooting around" from Cameron. All the tough talk is one thing, action is another as these bankers have this government in their pockets.

Cameron is running scared of bankers, in case he is forced to curb their lending behaviour, because firstly his snooty little sidekick Osborne would lose tax revenue if many of the banks lending criteria and rating structures were nobbled. Second these wealthy bankers are personal friends of Cameron, who back his party coffers, therefore become untouchable in my view.

To put the responsibility back on an ill prepared BoE inestigation party, rather than call in the Fraud Squad, which is surely the simple answer or at least an independant and swift public enquiry, starting now might just catch the blighters before they can hide the evidence against them.

All we get is rhetoric and more rhetoric and delay like the referendom on EU example "after the next election" says Cameron. Ha ha!!!! joke innit?

If someone called for an inquiry when "no more boom and bust!, I will say again, NO more boom and bust" and Prudence and her two sisters - Prudence and Prudence were dancing the streets, they would have been called mad! I fink!

“Darling details the total breakdown in trust between the prime minister and chancellor. He singles out Ed Balls and Shriti Vadhera as key Brown lieutenants running what amounted to a shadow treasury operation within government. Brown’s demeanour was increasingly “brutal and volcanic”, mistrusting Darling to the extent that he repeatedly tried to place his own aides in the treasury ministerial team to report back on what the chancellor was doing. Darling point-blank refused to have the newly-enobled Shriti Vadhera in his team, describing her as “only happy if there was blood on the floor – preferably that of her colleagues”. He accepted Yvette Cooper as chief secretary to the treasury in January 2008, but was equally clear that the main reason Brown had placed her there was to “keep an eye” on him.”

A good pragmatist is not just a bluffer but a double bluffer. He lies not only about what he thinks but also about what he intends to do in a meeting. I was left thinking that Bob Diamond the Ex-Chief Executive of Barclays bank just left me thinking he was a past master at the art of this game. As the idea that any politician or Bank of England Deputy Governor would agree to the practice of fixing the Libor rate is quite frankly is a pile of fossilized crap.

I am not noted for supporting any politician or Bank of England staff member out of some blind loyalty to either. As any wrong doing should not just be met with a resignation statement but face the full force of the law. Nor do I personally believe that any politician from either the two main parties would be so stupid to even try this sort of thing. So I just do not believe this at all.

So after watch Big Bob Diamond I was left believing that what we are dealing with is a group of investment bankers with there senior management turning a blind eye to what the investment banking arms of the bank was getting up too. In the case of Big Bob Diamond it smells like a case of plausible deniability if your court out. As I just find this idea that he only fond out what was really going on within his own banks investment arm just laughable and if true quite breathtaking too me.

However, what was also very clear to me was that Barclays are not only ones that was engaged in this outrageous banking practice. But lets be very clear about this, as had the US regulator not pulled up Barclays bank and Big Bob Diamond he would still been in place as the banks CEO and this outrageous banking practice could well of gone on again to this very day. But what also struck me was how the house of Commons Treasury Select Committee found out so very little that was even New today, as the MP’s were also looking to clear themselves of any blame.

Its for this very reason if no other, that any investigation will fail to get to the very bottom of our banking system and cancer within investment arms within the banks. If any Labour politician found to be involved in anyway should face convection over this issues. So I do not fear independent judicial inquiry. However, it seems that the Tory Party does not share the view that any inquiry should be carried out free political parties acting in a partisan way? As it was so clear today that the Treasury Select committee could not really do this. Nor do I believe that the media and world markets will accept a report that is split down party lines.

Last edited by Stox 16 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:11 am; edited 2 times in total

“Darling details the total breakdown in trust between the prime minister and chancellor. He singles out Ed Balls and Shriti Vadhera as key Brown lieutenants running what amounted to a shadow treasury operation within government. Brown’s demeanour was increasingly “brutal and volcanic”, mistrusting Darling to the extent that he repeatedly tried to place his own aides in the treasury ministerial team to report back on what the chancellor was doing. Darling point-blank refused to have the newly-enobled Shriti Vadhera in his team, describing her as “only happy if there was blood on the floor – preferably that of her colleagues”. He accepted Yvette Cooper as chief secretary to the treasury in January 2008, but was equally clear that the main reason Brown had placed her there was to “keep an eye” on him.”

The interesting thing is that "Labour Uncut" have removed thetopic from their web site. Weird world innit?

its dead simple tittf. Labour has requested a independent judicial inquiry. the question is why are not the Tory party asking for the same if they believe there is some wrong doing by the Labour party? weird innit?

Mel wrote:I don't think we will get anything else other than "pussyfooting around" from Cameron. All the tough talk is one thing, action is another as these bankers have this government in their pockets.

Cameron is running scared of bankers, in case he is forced to curb their lending behaviour, because firstly his snooty little sidekick Osborne would lose tax revenue if many of the banks lending criteria and rating structures were nobbled. Second these wealthy bankers are personal friends of Cameron, who back his party coffers, therefore become untouchable in my view.

To put the responsibility back on an ill prepared BoE inestigation party, rather than call in the Fraud Squad, which is surely the simple answer or at least an independant and swift public enquiry, starting now might just catch the blighters before they can hide the evidence against them.

All we get is rhetoric and more rhetoric and delay like the referendom on EU example "after the next election" says Cameron. Ha ha!!!! joke innit?

I just cannot agree more with your summary Mel. If yesterday was proof of anything it was that no House of Commons committee is up to taking on the bankers. But then Cameron likes the idea of a house of commons committee as he can control it better. as Leveson was a inquiry where evidence was taken under oath and witnesses are questioned by lawyers. nor was controlled or run by a group of politicians who are in Cameron's back pocket. What I think Cameron was worried about is that the opposition come out of Leveson far better that he first thought they would. its this that is not suitable to our two rich boys. also this is a clear case of the establishment trying to close ranks around its own. but I believe the last thing Cameron would like is a genuine examination of what went wrong, not unless it could show that the last government somehow knew about this scandal then he would jump at it. but like Leveson he believes his party could well carry the can for the bankers and only make Labour look stronger than it already is in the polls. Still its quite fitting that the Tory party is now trying to manipulate the out come of any inquiry?

Hello Stox,I was expecting a tiger at 2oclock yesterday in front of the Select Committee, who would be putting the BoE in the dock along with either ex Labour officials or some shadow minister. Instead to the disapointment no doubt of Cameron and the Tories, quite the reverse came from the lips of Diamond who turned out to be a mouse.

He is a very good actor like Cameron, dodging questions and taking the point off track time and time again to go on to waffle about how "great" Barclay's are and how much he "loves" the bank. He frustrated the members of the Committee to the nth degree and after three hours we were no further than we were at 2oclock.

Only once was he cornered and looked in trouble when the Labour rough diamond (excuse the pun) member, took him to task with "you are either in collusion, negligent or stupid" in so many words, regarding he should have known what was going on between 2005-2008 and allegedly did not know until "last month". I must say he looked guilty at that point but replied that he had taken "tough" action with those responsible and was "felt sick" at the whole issue.

If this is a taste of a government run inquiry, then it will fail to highlight who when where were responsible. We need a full independant public inquiry, so that Cameron and Co's hidden wrong doings can be exposed.

It won't happen now will it?

Last edited by Mel on Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hiya Mel. A very good summary Mel too. No it did not have one hope in hell of this happening in truth. as we are talking about the Tory party and its City of London friends and backers. as you just to not take there money without them getting there monies worth out of you. The fact is the Tory party fear an open full independant public inquiry. as they just cannot control it Mel. But I thought Ed Balls did very well today and picked some very big holes in there very weak argument. he had Gideon on the ropes in my view and it showed a lot today. as he was dead right in telling Gideon to back up his allegations or sit down and shut up. Gideon stayed seated and that said a great deal too me.

On some occasions its embarrassingly clear that our weak current government does not have any answers to the publics questions beyond developing a blame culture. This is not much of an intellectual achievement for any modern and progressive government. But then we are not dealing with either a modern and progressive party in the Tories are we. Today’s debate shows once more that Gideon has very little to offer the people of the UK over the currant banking crisis and Barclays scandal.

Once more he accused Ed Balls and the last Labour Government of being ’’Clearly Involved’’ in intervening on the Libor rate. When asked to back up this wild statement Gideon just sat in his chair in the house of commons looking as if he was stuck in some coma. But if he really believes this rubbish why does he not support a judge lead inquiry and put Ed Balls under oath then? But then on the other hand this was never about Ed Balls or the last Government was it? This was about the UK banking system and its accountability to the UK public that the banking system should be serving.

I myself found it quite ironic that the Tory party should call for independent judicial inquiry into the actions of News Corp but not into outrageous banking practice of investment banking arms of the banks. It was clear within seconds of this debate today that the Tory party was far more interested in finger pointing and the blame game than restoring transparency and accountability at the very heart of the economic system that has plunged the UK into the economic abyss.

But then the Tory party has been paid for years to act as financial sectors bureaucratic gatekeeper to stop any real reform of the financial and Banking sector that the City of London dislikes. But this parliamentary inquiry is the very minimum that the Tories and there friends could get away with right now with the public up in arms over there actions, as this is for the Tory party about trying to limit the corrosive effects for there traditional City of London backers. But today the Tory party has set a potentially dangerous precedent. But lets just not forget that in 2008 Cameron had actually demanded less regulation within the City. So tonight the Tory party has once more got its own way and will now pack the committee with its friends who will spend there time stonewalling any real banking reforms . The sad fact is the parliamentary inquiry is a outright victory of the City of London.

Big Bob Diamond is cut from the same stone as Cameron and Gideon. as all three of them could get a job as a Snake oil Salesman. but if I was Diamond I would be a very worried man this weekend. as the the US law is not like ours and I can see him up to his eyes in US Law suits as yet.

.... On some occasions its embarrassingly clear that our weak current government does not have any answers to the publics questions beyond developing a blame culture....

I myself found it quite ironic that the Tory party should call for independent judicial inquiry into the actions of News Corp but not into outrageous banking practice of investment banking arms of the banks.

Cameron was bounced into the Leveson Enquiry because of the phone-hacking disclosures. There had already been a Parliamentary Select Committee enquiry into the matter. That committe's report divided along Party Lines and accordingly nullified itself - as will any Parliamentary enquiry into Banker fraud.

Clearly the PM had not anticipated himself becoming a star of the Leveson enquiry, and is unlikely to make that sort of mistake again.