Saturday, June 09, 2007

TASERs for Everyone!

Despite a handful of deaths blamed on Tasers nationally, the Chicago Police Department will equip about 150 field training officers with the stun guns -- in addition to 200 of the devices that sergeants have been using for about five years.

Deputy Supt. Charles Williams said he can envision a day when every Chicago Police officer is equipped with a Taser.

We can't see that day coming, because the City will never spend the amount of money it'd take to outfit every single beat car with at least one TASER. And we are starting to wonder if officers are being given too many options - mace, baton, TASER, gun, not to mention the always present option of "hands on." Does anyone else worry about equipment overload? Maybe hesitation when choosing between options? And if you lose one option to a bad guy, are officers able to step up and switch tactically? Instantly?

A sergeant told us that if a bad guy gets a hold of a TASER, the Use of Force model immediately steps up to "lethal force" because the bad guy can potentially disarm any officer on the scene of his sidearm. Does anyone really want to be the test case for that one?

66 Comments:

Anonymous said...

Despite a handful of deaths blamed on Tasers nationally,

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Poor criminals, sure there is an extremely small chance that some one that gets tased will die. And we will always be the bad guys for zapping them. There is also a chance when you mace sombody that they have an allergic reaction and die to. You want a zero % chance of death??? Comply with all verbal commands.

I wouldn't really worry about becoming overequipped--Depending on it's position in the use of force continuum, it will make OC and baton essentially obsolete. They work better than OC, and on more people, and are more effective and work from further away than the baton. Get ready to ride the lightning!!

The department has already ordered enough tasers to equip every car. The taser is a great weapon, that out weighs any risk. the sgt in charge of training with the taser has been pushing to get every p.o. trained when they come to TARA or get a gas mask. It's a great weapon, get rid of the gas. this is better. the fop should be trying to get the taser in the contract. Forget the gas, forget the stick. all we need is a gun and a taser.

We should be able to purchase the taser. Would you really want one that was handed out like radios. I would rather have a taser than the coolest neato polymer gun anyday. If we all had one, the injuries to PO's would go down drastically. We would no longer have to fight these knuckleheads.

Damn, you complain because we don't have Tasers (and all the other equipment we should have but don't), and I agree with you. But then you complain when we get the equipment! Is there anything you don't complain about? Maybe that should be a thread: things SCC doesn't complain about.

I would have to agree with that Sgt. who gave you that assessment of an officer disarmed of a taser.The potential for a civilian with that weapon to disarm and kill other officers definitely steps it up to a deady force issue; Any shooting of an individual under those circumstances would certainly be justified, as it would if a civilian disarmed an officer of an asp, baton, etc., and threatened POs with those less-than-lethal force weapons.

Whoever the Sgt. is that said you can shoot a bad guy who gets your taser told you incorrect information.

Can you shoot them in certain situations? Probably. Can you shoot them every single time it happens? NO!

Read the use of force policy, all the answers you need are right there. Totality of the circumstances, reasonableness, severity of the crime, all come into play in a situation when Joe Schmoe gets your taser.

I'll give you an example. If a guy gets your taser and you have another Officer on the scene with you, he can protect you and your weapon right? Makes you less vulnerable to having your weapon taken if the guy hits you with the taser, changes the whole situation. Think and take each situation on it's on merits, nothing is an automatic "shoot situation" on it's own, all other factors must be considered as well. Stay safe ladies and gentlemen.

FROM STNG WIRE REPORTSA man and a woman were shot and critically wounded in a building at the Cabrini-Green housing development on the early Saturday.

The shooting was one of two at the Near North Side housing project overnight.

Police officers touring the area heard shots fired about 3 a.m., and when they went to investigate, they found the two victims in a building on the 900 block of North Hudson Avenue, according to a report from the police First Deputy Superintendent's office.

A 25-year-old man suffered a gunshot wound to the chest and a woman in her 20s suffered multiple gunshot wounds to the body, according to the deputy's report. Both victims were taken to Northwestern Memorial Hospital, where they were listed in critical condition, the report said.

Earlier in the night, about 1:30 a.m., three people were shot at a party at a Cabrini-Green building in the 1200 block of North Burling Street, police said. Those victims -- a woman and two men -- were listed in good condition.

As usual the bickering has overlooked an obvious solution to several problems. First as Chicago is an ‘open’ city for immigration we need to respect the Hispanic heritage of our newest residents. The City also wants to issue tasers, with belt space being an issue there is a perfect combination of a new uniform item that is both particle, pleasing to the eye, and maintains the professional high tech image of the CPD. Ladies and gentleman allow me to introduce the urban sombrero, a classy 3 foot round Mexican style uniform hat which will be hard wired so as to also act as a taser, with the taser wire shooting out from the perfect attendance ribbon which will be affixed at the center of the top of the hat. 3 birds, 1 stone, I have 35th street ingenuity written all over me

Anonymous said... We should be able to purchase the taser. Would you really want one that was handed out like radios. I would rather have a taser than the coolest neato polymer gun anyday. If we all had one, the injuries to PO's would go down drastically. We would no longer have to fight these knuckleheads.

6/09/2007 07:25:00 AM

Not purchase we should all be issued a new one like the junk flashlights they gave us! Hey how about issuing us updated bullet proof vests daley has plenty of money stashed for the olympics why not spend some with us?

Dude, Tasers are a good thing. Trust me. Once we started using them, bad guys learned to listen to us. Amazing what that red dot does. You point a gun and they tell you to fuck off. You point a taser and instant compliance.

Tasers kill more than a handful of people.Taser averages about 3 deaths a month nation wide.It is NOT a NON lethal tool,it is a less lethal device.Taser is being mis-used by everyone and Taser International isnt addressing the problem.

Taser is the the replacement for Defensive Tactics(hands on).Look at what departments hire now days??People are being zapped for passive resisistance and dying.

The taser has its place,but it is being mis-used.I cant wait to see the lawsuits(less money for your salary).The wood shampoo is more effective.

Speaking of equiptment....Atlas Uniform is carrying a leather clip-on pouch for your duty belt which can hold up to 10 oz. of hair gel. It also includes a small mirror inside the snap cover....PS do us all a favor and get some time on the job Lemmings !!

A FRIEND OF MINE IS POLICE OFFICER IN DOWNERS GROVE, THEY ALL CARRY THE TASER, AN EXCELLENT WEAPON, I WOULD BE MORE THAN WILLING TO CARRY ONE. THE PROBLEM ARISES IF YOU GET A WACKO HIGH ON METH AND PCP AND YOU ZAPP HIM THERE IS A LIKELY HOOD THAT THE SHITHEAD WILL GO INTO A CARDIAC ARREST, NOW THAT IS NOT BAD THING EITHER, BUT MY QUESTION WILL THE DEPARTMENT STAND BEHIND YOU OR THROW TO THE PLAY REVERNS.

Speaking of training FTOs here is todays Slum Times by our favorite reporters.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/420749,CST-NWS-trainers09.article

The Reason they can attract so few FTOs is not the pay. It is the FACT you are treated like $hit. Take it from a Former FTO. The bosses give you a hard time, give you the $hit recruits and heaven forbid you try to fail one. You find out who they know real fast. I had friends who were dicks and when I made FTO they were mad because I made D2 pay like them. (This was before D2A). You are just expected to be a babysitter and if you try and show them some Police work Don't let it go into OT, even though the recruits only get time it is like pulling teeth to get the boss to sign the OT slip. Try and take a recruit to court and you are given a hard time. On the days you do not have a recruit you are given the task of working with the district dog. When I made FTO there were plans to have the FTOs work approx 1 month a year in the academy and get experience teaching and keep up to date so you could go back to the district and do roll call training. Has not happened. I could go on but it is a beautiful day out and I'm off.

Have u seen my article in the FEB 2007 issue of Law and Order? I have lead Park Ridge to the promised land and I am now willing to take on the burden of my neighbor to the south east.....Its the least I can do....

The test case occurred in Niles, IL about three years ago. Niles PD officer searching for a burglar in a commercial property at night and is peppered sprayed by the offender. Surprise! The burglar was shot. Got a problem with the use of force model?

Anonymous said... Chicago is SO behind in its technology/tools offered to its police officers!

6/09/2007 01:30:00 AM

wade da minute, wade da minute..this can't be true,I can't believe the above statement.we have cameras that hear gun fire..we have state of the art PDT's (well some do)we have the best computer applications ever developed in the modern world...we will be a paperless department(ok ya gotta laugh at that one)we will someday be able to predict crime..really

OFF TOPIC:Im from the Sanfish Neal/Rick Miller era.I see on the news that Austin Highis closing. I want to give all u Austin folks(or people)my deepest sympathy on losing this great educational institution. Before eating your service gun, make sure uz seek professional help first!!

DO YOU PEOPLE DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN COMPLAIN!!!!Jeez, we live in the land of the free and home of the brave, we have jobs with benefits, we're alive! What about the poor souls of American Soliders in the middle east who lost their lives but do not have the same opportunity. WAKE UP and STOP BEHAVING LIKE JACKALS toward each other! Back each other up, we're all we have outside of our homes.

Anonymous said... Hey what about Verbal Judo? lol ----------------------------------LMAO.....I guess it depends on how receptive the other person is to verbal judo, some people dont want to listen.I was watching a UFC match, and there was this guy useing verbal judo against another guy that was trained in the Gracie Brazilian judo.MAN that Gracie trained guy just didnt want to listen!!!!!!!!All you heard was "Hey lets talk this over, its not a good idea, hey,HEY, BACK SIR BACK SIR!!! OOWWW THAT WAS MY NOSE YOU JUST BROKE,WHY ARE YOU THROWING ME TO THE GROUND???OOWWW YOURE HURTING MY ARM....SNAP!!! YOU BROKE MY ARM....OOHHH.... FEELING....FAINT....NEED TASER....MUST STOP...BLEEDING... If he had only had his taser. :}Or Batman was nearby.....

A sergeant told us that if a bad guy gets a hold of a TASER, the Use of Force model immediately steps up to "lethal force" because the bad guy can potentially disarm any officer on the scene of his sidearm. Does anyone really want to be the test case for that one?"

OK, So what you're saying is a white shirt 3 stripe will prevent this by presence alone? No one will pry the taser from his vulcan death grip?SCC never took you as a fearmongerer, then again your are a Republiclown...

Needham is just another connected Irish buffoon-his father was a drunk whose claim to fame was the checkerboard hatband-who has a job due to the pervasive belief that being Irish bestows some birthright to privelige (and merit promotion), not his competence. Remember the 023rd Dist. double murder he prosecuted where tried his best to discredit a new policeman working the desk? I do. So does Possley and Mills at the Tribune. Fuck Needham-I hope these coppers have wives's or girfriend who can incorporate files and hacksaw blades into their pound cake recipes!

So you're basically saying that CPD coppers are too stupid to think for themselves and apply the appropriate force option.

No ignoramus, that isn't what we said. Go back and read it.

Here's some clarification for you as you seem to be the only one misinterpretting our words. The human animal tends to prefer simple solutions - have you ever heard of KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)? Human beings, which police happen to be, tend to double clutch under stress. Everyone does it. And in the current political climate, civil liabilities take undue precedence in many Officers' thinking. The array of choices, the potential fallout of making the wrong choice, the ability or inability for training to take over and save the day comes into question in a single instance and a wrong choice might result in tragedy.

We've never implied or said CPD coppers are too stupid to do anything and you're an ass for suggesting it. You have a beef with this site and how it's run, fine, address the situation at hand. But to look for BS that isn't there and make up words to cloud issues, well, we can only assume you've been taking lessons from (A) stupid bosses or (B) democrats.

When I made FTO there were plans to have the FTOs work approx 1 month a year in the academy and get experience teaching and keep up to date so you could go back to the district and do roll call training. Has not happened. I could go on but it is a beautiful day out and I'm off.

6/09/2007 12:28:00 PM

Excellent idea to rotate FTO with instructors. That is why they will not do it. Makes sense. Academy instructors could use some time on the street. FTO's need addtional training with recruits. Now if a white shirt could make a decision?

"We can't see that day coming, because the City will never spend the amount of money it'd take to outfit every single beat car with at least one TASER."

Is this not a complaint?

That is not a complaint. That is an observation of reality - the City will never spend more money on outfitting coppers than they have to. If you didn't notice. we don't have the TASER's yet. And we don't think we ever will get them. Hell, they just now authorized FTO's to carry them after additional training.