Watch the sausage get made as Dallas Farmers Market, Pecan Lodge owners meet to discuss the barbecue restaurant’s future

It is the question that has been asked many, many, many times since the Dallas Farmers Market went private in June: Will beloved barbecuery Pecan Lodge remain in Shed 2, where each day hundreds queue up for the finest brisket, ribs and sausage this town has ever digested? Months after the hand-wringing began, there remains no clear answer: Pecan Lodge owners Justin and Diane Fourton have been looking elsewhere and are close to locking down a lease, likely outside the Dallas city limits. Meanwhile, the new owners — among them real-estate developer Brian Bergersen, restaurateur Janet Cobb and Standard Fruit and Vegetable’s Ruthie Pack, collectively known as DF Market Holdings — insist they’re doing everything to keep Pecan Lodge and its estimable following.

But on Thursday, we got a first-hand look at how far apart they are — and why Dallas is this close to losing a 3-year-old restaurant that’s already among the most esteemed in the state of Texas.

“Hold on — let me say, as the mayor of Dallas and a big fan of Pecan Lodge, we’re not going to lose them to a different city.” That’s Mayor Mike Rawlings talking. But as he’ll be the first to tell you, he doesn’t cut the deals.

Around 3:30 p.m. yesterday we found ourselves quite literally stuck in the middle of an awkward standoff between those who do, which briefly unfolded in front of Pecan Lodge. Standing to our left was Fourton, looking his usual well-done self in his smoke-stained ball cap. To his left: Jack Gosnell, a partner at UCR Urban and the man tasked with leasing out the restaurant and retail space at the new market. He and Fourton had just had their first face-to-face meeting over Pecan Lodge’s fate at the farmers market.

Tom Fox/Staff photographer

The new owners of the Dallas Farmers Market say they want to keep Pecan Lodge. Pecan Lodge says it wants to stay. So what's the problem? Pardon ... problems.

Bergersen and Gosnell told Fourton, over and over, that they would do whatever it took to keep Pecan Lodge. They told him they want him to sit down with an architect from Good, Fulton and Farrell to discuss laying out the new-and-improved Pecan Lodge. They told him he could have a space on the other side of the shed, where he could add two smokers to his existing one.

The new owners say they need to make that move for several reasons, among them: The new smokers would eat up room needed for the new development, which will includes new restaurants, retail outlets and two apartment complexes containing a total of 300 units (one will have 60; the other, 240). The bigger of the units will go on the site currently occupied by Shed 3 and 4, and have at least two floors of parking as well.

DF Market Holdings is also concerned that having three smokers parked right next to the apartments will make those residences somehow less desirable. Then again, as they were reminded repeatedly Thursday, in Austin apartment complexes located near Franklin Barbecue use their proximity to the best meat in the history of smoke asaselling point.

The new owners also promised to keep Fourton’s existing space open while the Shed 2 redo took place later next year. And they offered to pay for the whole thing.

Fourton appeared to appreciate the offers; he listened, nodded and said, sure, he’d be willing to sit down with whomever to talk about whatever. The problem is, he told Gosnell and Bergersen, their offers were coming just a little late in the game. This conversation, taking place on August 15, should have happened in April, perhaps even sooner. Fourton told them he can’t plan for the future based on a late-coming promise. And, as he said in an interview later, he’s losing tens of thousands of dollars by turning down holiday-season catering jobs, simply because he doesn’t know if he’ll even have his doors open come October.

And, he told them, he’s displeased with how they’ve handled the redo of Shed 2, which will begin next year. The new owners have already put at least four proposed anchor tenants — none of whom have yet been named, but one of which is a seafood eatery — in front of the architects, without inviting Fourton to the table till now.

The Fourtons say they don’t want to leave, but without any tangible answers they didn’t have much choice but to consider other options. And as the deadline tick, tick, ticks toward zero Hour, Pecan Lodge may have to move just to make sure it can stay in business.

As you’ll see below, all of this appears to be a giant miscommunication. DF Market Holdings’ principals say Fourton’s hard to reach; he says they know where to find him every day. He says he wants to stay but only if he can get certain guarantees … and pronto; they say it’s up to him, when, of course, it’s not entirely up to him.

So, then, Brian Bergersen, is Pecan Lodge staying or not?

“To be honest with you, it’s not up to us,” he says while standing all of 10 feet from Justin Fourton. The smell of afternoon’s lunch lingers in Shed 2 well past sold-out time. It’s distracting.

“It’s up to Justin and his wife,” Bergersen says. “We’ve told them on the record, 15 different times, that we want them to stay. We feel it’s a valuable asset to the market. It’s really not up to us. If we can accommodate Justin and the things he requires, which we will try to do, it’s really up to Justin and where he wants to be. Does he want to be here? Does he want to be in Carrollton? Does he want to be in Deep Ellum? Where do you want to be? I think you’re most successful here. You’re known as an icon in the Dallas Farmers Market. We get that.”

UCR's Jack Gosnell, who is handling the restaurant and retail leasing for the Dallas Farmers Market

Fourton says he wants to stay; life would be much easier without having to move the smoker, for starters. But he has needs, demands, guarantees. And they need to be real, written down. And they need to come yesterday, not the day after tomorrow.

“It has to be something pretty concrete,” he tells Bergersen and Gosnell. “I need to be able to see a plan. I need to know long-term where we’ll be. Where we’ll be during the transition. The costs for that. All the things that are necessary for me to continue to run the business.”

“But I don’t think that’s something we’re going to dictate to you,” says Gosnell. “That’s something you’ll work out with us. That has to be collaborative. We have to sit down and work our a plan that’s decent for him,” he says, speaking to the tape recorder now. “Otherwise we’ll present something blindfolded. We have a couple of alternatives we can consider and work on …”

Bergersen interrupts. “Honestly, from a transition standpoint, it’s no more difficult than sheetrocking here and sheetrocking there and protecting him here and putting in outdoor table tops. You’ll still have access to the bathrooms. You may have to walk around the corner …”

Now, Gosnell interrupts. He wants to know, “But what do you with the smokers?”

“You leave them during the transition,” Bergersen says.

“And then what?” wonders Gosnell.

“Then we build him new smokers in the area he’s going to be in, and then …,” says Bergersen.

“You’re talking about him swapping corners and building that space out,” says Gosnell, nodding, smiling. “I agree. I didn’t understand.”

“Think of a shopping mall,” says Bergersen. “Tenants move in, tenants move out all day long. And they don’t shut down the mall. You work within the space.”

Fourton is asked: Would swapping corners with three smokers work for you?

“That goes a long way,” he says. “But it’s …” A pause. “There are still a lot of details we’d have to work out. But that’s obviously … I’ve gotten a lot more information in the last five minutes than in the last six months. This is all brand-new to me. We’ve got 500 people a day coming through here, more on the weekends, so it’s not just about can you get to the counter, but can you find a place to sit …”

Bergersen chimes in: “I’d go so far as to say on my nickel we’d get you involved with the architects and let you design the space. We can’t design it for you. We can help and say, ‘This is a good place to move people’ or ‘This is a good place for people to congregate while they’re waiting.’ But we need your help to design your space, because it is your space. It’s your Pecan Lodge. It’s your logo. It’s your brand. We don’t want to mess with your brand. I’m happy. You gave me a date today to set up a time with Good, Fulton and Farrell and sit down and design what you need and come up with a plan.”

“That way we can give you a proposal,” says Gosnell.

“And you talk about city incentives,” Bergersen says, nodding toward the reporter, then looking back at Fourton. “Well, indirectly you are getting incentives. Because as a landlord of this property we’re getting TIF money, which will come back to you guys to help you finish out your space so you don’t have to come up with any money to move your smokers.”

I asked Bergersen: So, you’re saying you’ll pay for Pecan Lodge’s new smokers, the move, the new place?

“That’s a different deal,” Bergersen insists, “They had to move because they’re building a shopping center on that site. That’s almost like eminent domain in a way. But the city really can’t say to a restaurant, ‘We’re going to give you incentives,’ because 15 million restaurateurs will get behind you. But indirectly you’re getting incentives.”

Has the city asked the new owners to make sure Pecan Lodge doesn’t leave? After all, Pecan Lodge moved in three years ago, when the market was losing hundreds of thousands of city dollars. It seems City Hall won’t appreciate the negative publicity that comes with losing a centerpiece, especially to another city …

“It’s not all up to us,” Bergersen says. “That’s what I keep trying to say. But absolutely. Everybody from Mayor Rawlings, [Assistant City Manager] Ryan Evans, [head of Office of Economic Development] Karl Zavitkovsky — believe me, it’s a topic of conversation. And it’s a topic of conversation with us. We don’t want the chains of the world to come in here. We’re trying to do something really unique and eclectic and iconic …”

“And Texas,” says Gosnell.

“And Texas,” says Bergersen. “And this fits in here.”

And with that, more or less, they parted ways and agreed to talk again by no later than Monday. In the meantime, we asked Evans Friday morning if the city has considered intervening. This is all he would say.

“I have told them on numerous occasions it’s the city’s desire for them to do what they can to keep Pecan Lodge,” he said. “But if they can’t, they can’t.”

Friday morning we tried to reach the mayor for comment, but without much luck. We should have tried Pecan Lodge, where Rawlings had lunch a little while ago in order to have his own chat with Fourton. And, again, he doesn’t make the deals. But he can make … suggestions.

“First, Pecan Lodge is going to be much greater than it is now,” he said Friday afternoon. “I can see that. It’s paramount that we as citizens and the city put our arms around a Dallas resident owning a Dallas restaurant for Dallas citizen and keep them in Dallas. That’s my first belief. Second, I am very confident that Dallas developers see the wisdom of the traffic Pecan Lodge generates to make their development wherever it might be successful.

“As you recognized, I am not going to negotiate deals for Pecan Lodge and developers. But I have asked Ryan to meet with Pecan Lodge and make sure that we are doing everyting in our power to make it an easy decision for Justin to stay in Dallas. The Farmers Market will be a wonderful development, and if they get married, hip hip hooray. On the other hand if there’s another place in Dallas where he’ll be just as happy, I want to make sure he’s successful there as well.”

“I felt good about the conversation we had,” Fourton said Friday. He doesn’t want to say much about what was discussed with the mayor; theirs was a casual, off-the-record conversation over brisket. But he will say this: “The mayor made it clear it was important to him we remain a Dallas business.”

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