but I am interested in exploring options other than the old : Ammo, optics, triggers and barrels.

I briefly hear about possible receiver reinforcement, especially on the front end. There's gotta be some more mechanical tweaks that can tighten up the monster spread a stock AK prints. .

.

YOU CAN DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT TO THE RECIVER BUT YOUR NOT GOING TO SHOOT TIGHT GROUPS WITH OUT FIRST FIXING THE AMMO, SIGHTS, TRIGGER AND THE BARRLEL ISSUES FIRST. A FACTORY BARREL CAN SHOOT AROUND ONE INCH IF ITS A GOOD BARREL WITH THE PREVIOUS MODS DONE. STIFFING A RECIVER WILL DO LITTLE IF THE AMMO IS CRAP AND THE TRIGGER SUCKS AND THE SIGHTS /OPTICS DONT STAY ON TARGET OR A HARD TO PERCISLY AIM AT THE TARGET.

AS STATED BEFORE I HAVE BUILT MULTIPUL RIFLES THAT ARE VERY ACCURATE WITH A BASIC BENT TAPCO RECIVER. ADDING A BUNCH OF DODADS OR WHAT NOT ISINT GOING TO HELP IF THE REST OF THE GUN WILL NOT WORK. THE CENTER FIRE CARTRIDEGE HAS BEEN AROUND FOR OVER 100 YEARS AND THERE IS GOING TO BE VERY LITTLE NEW THAT IS GOING MAKE THE AK SHOOT MIRACUASLY BETTER. START WITH GOOD AMMO AND SEE WHAT THE GUN WILL DO AS IS THEN GO FROM THERE.

This was with a barrel assembly I built for a guy that I tested on one of my spare recivers with some trigger work. it wasa basic tapco bent blank and a screw build to boot. it had only the pin holes and the lower rails hardened it had no tapered rails or any other tricks the bolt was stock as I recall

Im not sure what adding a brace to any thing would improve???? it was a used douglas blank as I recall. i did a post on back when i shot that group. It did numerious under 1" groups as well that day. it was a 308x39 ( basicaly a standard 7.62x39 but with a .308 bore and bullets to match. AS FAR AS I KNOW ITS THE BEST A X39 HAS DONE ON A AK PLATFORM.

the reciver will shoot right at a inch or slightly bigger with a factory rommy barrel on it and the canterlever sight that I build. i think its the one thats on my sons hunting AK currently. AGAIN TRIGGER , AMMO, OPTICS IS ALL IT REALLY TAKES THEN A BETTER BARREL TO GET ANY BETTER THAN AROUND 1"

I'm not a bench shooter and have no interest in it whatsoever, so when I think of accurizing a weapon, match ammo is the last figure in the equasion. The type of shooting I've done is free desert, 3 guns and Cowboy action, they are all great. I wish we had a league, all I get to compete in here is defensive pistol and clays. . . it fills the void.

I was taught growing up that the practical goal for a military/hunting type weapon is the ability to hit a basketball (with a reasonably quick shot) at the distance your target is from you. Of course inside 250 or so should be a gimme. 400 yards is where I see a noticeable drop in hit % out of my AKs. My ARs continue to pound steel at that range consistently, WITH CRAP AMMO AND IRONS.

I added a ghost ring rear apertature to a Romy and swapped the stock front post with a smaller ball point. It made a noticeable difference. Too bad it's so damn expensive. . . probably a $100 change. But it was worth banging the 300yd gong.

THIS IS A ACCURACY THREAD ABOUT MAKING THE AK PLATFORM AS ACCURATE AS POSSABLE. I KNOW BECAUSE I STARTED THE THREAD. IT IS NOT ABOUT SETTING UP A AK FOR COMPETING IN SPORTS WERE FAST TARGET ACCUSITION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ACCURACY. PERHAPS WE NEED A RACE GUN/ TATICLAL COMP THREAD STARTED. WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT IS OPTOMIZING A WEAPON FOR A CERTAIN SPORT OR STYLE YOU ARE DOING NOTHING TO TO IMPROVE THE TRUE ACCURACY OF THE WEAPON. YOUR GUN DIDNT SHOOT ANY BETTER WITH GHOST SIGHTS. YOU WERE ABLE TO SHOOT THE GUN BETTER WITH GHOST SIGHTS. THAT IS OPTIMISING VS ACCURSISNG.

THERE IS INHARETED ACCURACY OF A WEAPON. THAT IS WHAT THE GUN WILL DO IF IT IS THEROITICALY CLAMPED INTO A VICE AND THEN THERE IS THE HUMAN FACTOR THAT IS STUFF THAT MAKES THE GUN MORE SHOOTABLE FOR A PERSON TO GET ALL THE INHARTED ACCURACY. HUMAN FACTOR STUFF ARE THINGS LIKE STOCKS, GHOST RINGS, SCOPES, CHECK PADS, FORE ENDS. RACE GUNS ARE ABOUT INCREASING THE HUMAN FACTOR. HAVING A 24 POWER SCOPE ON A TATICAL OR SPPED SHOOTING WEAPON IS A BAD IDEA AS IT HAS ABOUT A 3 FOOT FEILD OF VIEW AT THOSE RANGES.

HITTING A BASKET BALL SIZED TARGET FAST IS A POOR PLAN FOR A HUNTING SET UP. LOTS OF GAME IS SMALLER THAN A BASKET BALL, A BUNNY FOR INSTANCE. AND BASKET BALL ACCURACY ON DEER IS GOING TO LEAVE YOU WOUNDING MORE THAN YOU KILL ESPECIALY AT OVER 50 YARDS. A RIFLE THAT SHOT BASKET BALL SIZED GROUPS AT ANY RANGE YOUR HUNTING AT IS PRETTY MUCH WORTHLESS. MY BOLT ACTION DEER RIFLES ALL SHOOT UNDER 1.5" OR THEY DONT GO HUNTING. THE MORE ACCURATE YOUR HUNTING SET UP IS THE MORE MARGINE YOU HAVE FOPR A KILL IF YOUR SHOT IS NOT PERFECT WHEN YOU SQUEZE THE TRIGGER.

HITTING STUFF AT 400 YARDS WITH A AK IS HARDER THAN A AR BECAUSE THE ROUND IS NOT AS FAST. YOUR COMPARING A 223 IN YOUR AR VS 7.62X39 IN OUR AK. HOW MANY 7.62X39 ARS DO YOU HAVE???? THE FLATTER SHOOTING 223 ALLOWS YOU MAKE HITS WHEN YOUR NOT AS GOOD OF A SHOOT BECAUSE IT SHOOTS FLATTER AND MAKES RANGE ESTIMATION NOT AS CRITICAL.

MY 223 AK WILL LIKELY OUT SHOOT ANY OF YOUR ARS AT ANY RANGE AND THAT GOES FOR 95% OF THE ARS OUT THERE. SIMPLY PUT THAT IS BECAUSE IT IS MORE ACCURATE FROM THE START. A GUN THAT IS BETTER AT 100 YARDS IS GOING TO SHOOT BETTER GROUPS AT 400 YARDS. THERE IS A DIFFERANCE BETWEEN HITTING THE TARGET AND HOW TIGHT THE GROUPS ARE AT LONG RANGE. THE X39 IS FALLING LIKE A ROCK AT 400 WHILE THE 1000 FPS 223/AR ROUND IS STILL GOING PRETTY GOOD.

ALSO KEEP IN MIND THAT MOST CRAP 223/ 5.45 AMMO IS GENERALY MUCH BETTER THAN ANY COMMERCAIL X39 AMMO. COMPANYS JUST DONT CARE ABOUT HOW ACCURATE 7.62X39 IS.

THE US HAS A HUGE ADVANTAGE IN THE AMMO THEY SUPPLY THERE SOLDIERS AND IT IS ALSO WHAY THE AK IS CONSIDERED INACCURATE WEAPON. THE AR IS THE MOST BAND-AIDED UP FIRE ARM IN THE HISTORY OF MAN. I CAN THINK OF A ANOTHER GUN THAT HAS HAD MORE UP DATES AND DESIGN IMPROVMENTS. IT STARTED LIFE OUT AS A TOTALY UNRELIABLE WEAPON IN THE FIELD AND THE MILITARY AS WELL AS THE PRIVATE SECTOR AHS CONTINUED TO WORK ON IT FOR 50 YEARS AND THERE ARE TROUPS WHO DROP THEM IN FAVOR OF THE ak STILL DODAY WHEN THE SHIT HITS THE FAN.

How many times have you heard the phrase the ar/m16 / m4 is a good weapon IF you clean it IF you use this special mag,

IF

you have this ammo,

IF

. The ar is a much differant animal than the original m16 IMOO. there still trying to keep the bolts from breaking, and trying to keep the action from getting full of crap from the shitty gas sytem they have. There are likely 50 company making aftermarket barrels and dod ads to help the AR. How many are ther that actualy try to improve ak accuracy???? there are lots that sell dodads that dont help the inharted accuracy of the AK. adding that $100 ghost ring and post didnt change the accuracy of the gun it changed how your able to shoot it.

AGIAN THIS THREAD IS ABOUT MAKING THE AK MORE INHERITLY MORE ACCURATE. SOME OF THAT WILL BENIFIT GUYS WHO SHOOT FOR SPEED OR IN COMBAT BUT THE MAIN GOAL IT TO IMPROVE WHAT THE GUN CAN DO TO BEGIN WITH.

AMMO IS IMPORTANT IN ANY TYPE OF ACCURACY COMPITION OR ECERCISE HAVING GOOD AMMO IS GOING TO BE HUGE. I HAVE SOME SURPLUSS X39 STUFF THAT WONT DO UNDER 4" AT 100 YARDS AT AT 400 YRDS THAT STUFF IS GOING TO MISS EVERY THING EXCEPT A TRUCK. HOWEVER THE SAME GUN CAN AND WILL SHOOT UNDER 1" WITH BETTER AMMO. THAT IS GOING TO ALLOW ME TO USE THAT GUN ON DEER AT AT LEAST 200 YARDS. IT WILL MAKE HITS FURTER OUT BUT 200 YARDS IS ABOUT ALL YOU WANT TO SHOOT WITH THE X39 ON DEER ITS RUNS OUT OF STEAM AFTER THAT.

MY SONS HUNTING AK IS AGOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT A AK CAN DO AND STILL BE PRACTICAL FOR ITS ORIGINAL DESIGN KILLING ENEMY'S. IT SHOOTS UNDER 1" RELIABLY STILL HAS A 16" BARREL IS LIGHTER THAN ORIGINAL, AND IS RELIABLE. LOOSE THE 3.5X10X42MM SCOPE AND PUT ON A TATCAL SIGHT AND IT WOULD BE AT HOME IN ANY SOLDERS HANDS. HOW EVER IT CAN SHOOT A GOLF BALL AT OVER 100 YARD IF YOU NEED IT TO. IT IS A COMBINATION OF ACCURACY AND PRACTICALITY.

KEEP IN MIND THAT NOT ONE SINGLE MEMBER HERE IS BUILDING LEGAL FULL AUTOS, AND NONE OF THEM ARE GOING INTO BATTEL WITH A SA AK. WE DONT REALLY USE THESE GUNS FOR THERE DESIGNED INTENT NOT DO THE AR GUYS. MOST GUYS ARE TRYING TO MINIC SOME COMBATE READY GUN THAT LOOKS LIKE ITS FULL AUTO. IN TRUTH MOST GUYS WHO OWN AKS ARE SHOOTING DIRT CLODS FROM THE HIP. THAT IS GREAT BUT ITS NOT WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT. MY GOAL CURRENTLY IS TO SHOOT PRAIRE DOGS AT 1000 YARDS IM NOT TRYING TO BUILD A BENCH REST GUN IT HAS TO BE RELIABLE STILL CYCLE STILL, AND BE ABLE TO SHOOT AT LEAST 30 ROUNDS (OFTEN MORE) BETWEEN CLEANINGS. IT HAS TO SHOOT AMMO THAT IS NOT NECK TURNED SO IT GIVES UP A LITTLE POSSABLY OVER A TRUE TARGET BUILD.

MY 223 HAS GONE OVER 5000 ROUNDS WITH OUT ANY REAL PROPLEMS AND IF I NEED TO DO A 75 ROUND MAG DUMP IT STILL WILL ( NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN BARRELS ARE NOT CHEAP) IF i DROPED THE SCOPE AND CHOPPED THE BARREL IT WOULD STILL OUT SHOOT MOST AR,S IN ALMOST ANY SITUATION.

Anyone care to share anything that one could do during a build that would make the gun a more accurate battle rifle.

Well I'm not going to try and get all technical, you know the kind of people that say you need to do that cryo-freezing shit to align the molecules in the metal, but let's keep it simple.
My $.02
Say you got a kit with the original barrel and you want to do what you can with just those parts.
-Set the head spacing on the tight side. (actually do this second)
-Smooth & polish everything that moves where it makes contact to other parts (some of this is overkill), no not polishing stuff for the bling effect, to make everything move as smooth as possible. Like the locking lugs on the bolt & trunnion, the bolt stem & inside of the carrier, the grooves in the carrier that rides the rails & the rails, and every contact point on the FCG.
-Tune the FCG to get the cleanest break possible.
-Try different types of ammo and stay with what it likes or experiment with hand loads to find the best setup.

Sights & optics are completely up to the individual.

Some of the charicteristics that the better shooting AKs I've seen have had plated BCGs, better barrels.

Don't see how pating the BCG is going to do anything better then a good polishing job unless it's with some hi-tech coating of some type.
Better barrel can be a plus, and since most of the kits don't have barrels now this would be a smart move.

"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

Actually the idea that a hunting rifle has to shoot sub-MOA is worthless. Also if you're shooting a "bunny" then you probably aren't using a .223 or a 7.62 then are you? Wouldn't be much eating. . . Sure the gun didn't shoot better w/ different sights, but isn't sights/optics something that you continue to address?

What your doing can be done with ANY PLATFORM, EASILY. There's about a million rifles that'll shoot groups that yours did, damn near right out the box and you've been wasting years getting them?

NOT every gun can put 30-50 rounds at a game sized target in a certain time frame. That's why I attached the word practical to many statements, because practically most folks have their varmint rifle, then they have their AKs. You have both, good for you!

All my hunting rifles that get used that are bolt action will shoot at 1" or much better. that is from my 22LR to my 300 win mag. I cant see any situation were haven a more accurate rifle a down side. the more accurate it is the more you can be off. every one makes a slightly off shot from time to time.

to be very blunt I didnt take years to build my main origianl varmint rifle I took about three weeks or less from concept to parts acusition to painting it and final assembling it in ther RV on the way to South Dakota. The actual assembly time was about 2 days. I built it for less than $300. It will out shoot most AR,s with varmint style uppers and will out shoot every standard barrel AR I have ever seen go bang. I didnt waste any thing especialy time. i built it fater than some guys acn get there barrel together. I enjoy building AK style hunting guns. My AMD Pistol shoots under 1" at 100 YDS. and I have killed numerious deer with it out to 220 yards. had i stuck with crap ammo and 3" groups I likely would not be sucessful. I know for a fact the neck shot i took at 100 yards on a deer looking at me would not have been considered with with factory type ammo and accuracy. I dont know were you hunt but I often see 300 yard shots and have had kills at over 500 with my bolt actions. I do consider 300 an under a much more perferable. You are not going to do that with a gun that wont shoot a 1" group or better at 100 yards. I dont own a lead sled and my hunting shots are from various positions. I can take a neck shoot at 100 yards if i need to and having a gun that is accrate also gives you the confidence to make those shots. I have a light 17-223 and a light weight 223 that i use on coyotes that will do any thing a AR will do and I built them for around $400 with good barrels they shoot about 3/4" consistantly . name any other gun in that price range in SA that will give you that??? MY Varmint AK is out shooting most factroy Remington 700,s including my own. I dont see that as a waste of time. The current barrel is off of a savage bolt action and the group I hunt with all have the same gun 5 of them total 4 223 and 1 22-250 in same stye bolt action that I got my barrel from and my build matches or exceads all of them but one.

It will as you stated put 30 rounds in a game sized target in a fast amount of time. I try not to heat up the barrel but It will but 20 rounds into a 5" circle at 250 yards as fast as you can aim and squease the trigger. not a lot of guns will do that. slow it down and it will shoot 10 into a quarter sized group at the same range.

you state there are millions of hunting rifles that will do what my builds do. How many of them are Semi Auto??? how many of them can be built for under $400???? My 300 savage and 243 win AK will both out shoot any remington auto and likely will out shoot or at least compare to any AR 10 costing over $1500. Most times the basic platfom or action cost more than I have in my whole gun. take my kids hunting AK for examble I built it very cheap it has a colapsable stock and would hold its on on any three gun course if i put a differant optic on it. but it also shoot around MOA. its a stock barrel and tapco bent reciver your basic build but with a stock to fit a ten year old and a sagia foreend that was light cheap and durable. it is about what you describe as wanting except it has a 3.5x10 leupold scope worth more than the gun. take that off and you have a AK that will do it all in any situation for the most part.

ill admitt i have gone over board on a few builds and there are some expensive glass and barrels on a few but i have yet to spend any were near what a out of the box AR costs. and dont get me wrong i have a few blaster type deasert shooters that would make your head spin. but they are not good for much other than zombies and milk jugs.

you speak of practical type shooting and im all for guys setting there AK,s up for things like three gun and there are guys here who do it. you looking for mechanical improvments to increase how well you can do with surplus ammo and there going to still be the basics for improving inhearited accuracy. mainly the barrel. now if you want to improve the human factor then trigger on a AK is the most important. factory AK triggers and there 922compliance clones suck there crap no matter how you look at them. rework them or replace with a adjustable of some sort. The average guy can cut his group size in half with a good trigger like i just put in my 10 year olds deer rifle. At about 2.5 pounds pull its still safe to carry gives safe performance. I installed simular a reworked tapco in a buddyss bone stock WASR he went from 4" groups to 2" groups. My basic hand loads got in the 1.25" area with a cheap dust cover mount 4X scope. that is like a 65% improvment for under $50. that gun went from being worth less at 300 yards to being able to hit a normal man sized target consistantly. It would be good to go on deer out to 200 YDS as is. I dont recomed a x39 over 200 yards ( yea I have done it but there is better stuff for that)

Wow that came across a bit more pleasant with the arrogance and inflation removed

There is a differance between arrogance an ignorance. you are now here telling me Im wasting my time trying to make a AK shoot accuratly ( thats half the fun) and your telling me that the AR is better out to 400 yards because of the platform and not the type and calibur of ammo it shoots. Your telling me that Im not doing any thing that hasent been done and yet i cant find hardely another person who shoots AK,s long range on varmints or hunts with a AK pistol freqently or even attempts to make them shoot close to what I have been able to do. those I have found are on this tight and this thread.

Actually the idea that a hunting rifle has to shoot sub-MOA is worthless.

I meant that if you are preparing to take a 600 yd shot on a pronghorn, you're not expecting to shoot his eye out. Right? You probably left your bench and lead-sled at the house and you're set up in a sagebrush on some gravel (been there). But if you are 100% sure that your shot will fall w/ in a 3"-5" radius, then you can reasonably take that shot.

Your talking of hitting a prong horn at 600 yards in one sentance as long as the shot is in 3-5 inch radius and that you dont need a sub MOA rifle for hunting in another. if your not shooting SUB MOA YOUR NOT GOING TO BE ANY WERE NEAR 5" AT 600 YARDS. if there is any wind or or miscalulatiuon of range your luck to be with in 20 inches with a varmint rifle and forget about your average rem 700 in 243 with no mods. shooting from the grounds is how i do 95% of my varmint hunting. a bipod a bag and a blanket.

I think we will both a agree that the more accurate a rifle is and still maintains reliablitly and useabilty the better.

Im not saying Grandads 30-30 isnt going to work on deer either because it will. but dads 30-06 will do it better,

if you want to learn how to and discuss making a AK more accurate stick around if your not interesed in doing that then there are lots of threads here about stocks, and fore grips and mag releases and al the practical/ tatical stuff. I have folding stock quad rail drum feed zombie blaster with lazer and fash light with a bipod fore grip also the cool thing is it will also shoot 1" groups to for you know when the zombies are only showing part of there heads. LMFAO

If I could get that out of my Romanians, Mak 90 that'd be great, but they shoot good enough. Many people are under the mistaken impression that full auto is needed for a gun to be "battle ready" That's simply false. The combination of marksmanship, reflexes and trigger time, will give you enough advantage over a full-auto machine run by a shooter with less experience. Semi-auto is more than enough

Im simpy statting that 99.9% of the AK bought or built in this country are not used for there intended purpose in the indended way they are designed. And as you point out Semi Auto can be a advantage. that is likely only true in a combate situation if you can hit what your aiming at the first time. that is going to take a much better trigger as well a sight/ optics. and since we are stuck using our nutered AK for every thing but there intended purpose in there intended way IMOO it is best to make them a accurate and usefull for what ever new purpose we have in mind.

YES I DO RECOMEND ANY BETTER SIGHTING SYSTEM THAN WHATS ON IT. AND AM ALL FOR CHANGING THE SITE ON ANY AK THAT IS NOT JUST FOR SHOW. It is one of the big three that i have been preaching for years to improve the AK for any purpose.

Anyone care to share anything that one could do during a build that would make the gun a more accurate battle rifle. Some of the charicteristics that the better shooting AKs I've seen have had plated BCGs, better barrels.

ALMOST EVERY THING IN THIS THREAD WILL MAKE ANY ak MORE ACCURATE.

WERE HAVE YOU SEEN A PLATED BCG?????? THE YUGO,S HAVE POLISHED STEEL.
THERE IS NOTHING TO BE GAINED ACCURACY WISE THAT I CAN THINK OF BY PLATING THIS. BY bcg ARE YOUR REFERING TO THE BOLT AND CARRIER OR SOMEHTING ELSE???

there is one thing your right about im not really dont nothing new on my approach im simply appling time poven ideas onto a platform that is basicaly ignored by most. the same thing im doing will work on a $140 H&R handi rifle or any cheap rifle. its that i just seem to be one of the few and the first to actualy take the time and some money to actualy do it. ther eis no majic here and I have done nothing that special. I take credit for the scope mount design being used on a AK but I didnt invent it. I see there is now a south american company offering a AK variant wioth a canterleaver type mount very simular to what I do.

IMOO the biggest draw back to the AK is the crap ammo that everyone shoots. had the commy countries made better ammo the AK would not have the poor accuracy reputation it has. try firing some of that crap in a good 7.62x39 bolt action and you will there is not a lot of room for improvemnt untill the ammo is improved. I know a guy with a CZ in 7.62x39 the gun will shoot 1/4" groups with good loads and about 2.5" with wolf crap. he has one several matches with the 7.62x39 with this rifle but its the ammo and the gun. Hand loading IMOO is to optimise the gun it has little to do with optimizing the calibur other than a slight speed increase. Most guys load to the gun if there serious shooters. its hard to be serious about shooting at anything if your ammo sucks. surpluss is fun to blast at crap but itsnot good for hunting or any thing target related. its great to go bang and I have about 4000 rounds of it just for that.

WHO HERE HAS ACTUALLY TAKEN A ak INTO BATTEL IN THE USA OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY??????? OR HAS ACTUALY SHOT ANOTHER HUMAN WITH A AK??? SEEMS TO ME THAT MILLIONS OF AKS GET OUTFITTED FOR SOMETHING THAT THEY WILL NEVER DO. LOOKS COOL THOUGH.

ps sorry for all the caps not yelling at anyone. just lazy and tired and my eyes hurt.

My thinking with truing the locking lugs is that that will help the bolt lock up to be more consistant.

YEAP

Say you got a kit with the original barrel and you want to do what you can with just those parts.
-Set the head spacing on the tight side. (actually do this second)
-Smooth & polish everything that moves where it makes contact to other parts (some of this is overkill), no not polishing stuff for the bling effect, to make everything move as smooth as possible. Like the locking lugs on the bolt & trunnion, the bolt stem & inside of the carrier, the grooves in the carrier that rides the rails & the rails, and every contact point on the FCG.
-Tune the FCG to get the cleanest break possible.
-Try different types of ammo and stay with what it likes or experiment with hand loads to find the best setup.

Sights & optics are completely up to the individual.

yeap thats the basic recipe for getting started. after that its about tightening things up as far as clearances to get consistant bolt lock up. I have tried a lot of stuff and there are gains but it all comes at a price in the wallet and in reliabilty. most AKs ahve a ton of slop up and down , you can sleave the bolt to make it fit the carrer better, then mess with rails or grooves in the carrier to g et rid of the carrier to reciver slop and then you can true the bolt to the barrrel once you get the slop out but it is very time consuming and it its very hard to show a gain on paper.

My 6mm-284 build will pull out all the stops but it is mainly to prove what the AK can be capaible of (converted 308 saiga) the round is a barrel burner so a SA is kind of a bad idea . It should however give 1000+ yard capability for at least 600 rounds or so before the barrel is done.

HAVE YOU READ THE FIRST 18 PAGES OF THIS POST?? EVERYTHING COILS HAS STATED IS THERE< AND MUCH MORE. NOT EVERY THING IN THIS THREAD IS ABOUT A VARMNT RIFLE. my AMD PIDTOL FOR EXAMBLE IS AS BASIC AS IT GETS. ADD A STOCK AND IT IS AOUT EVERY THING YOUR LOOKING FOR.

IF THE BORE IS CHROME THEN LAPPING A BARREL IS OUT. AND TRYING TO DO ANYTHING TO nON CHROMED BARREL IS GOING TO DO MUCH MIGHT/LIKELY MAKE IT WORSE. THE ISSUE WITH A FACTORY TYPE BARREL IS THE CHAMBER IS WAY TO LOOSE. THAT CAN ONLY BE ADRESSED BY RELOADING WITH CASES THAT ARE NOT FULLY RESIZED AND EVEN THEN THE NECK IS STILL TO SMALL.

ON YOUR DADS SAIGA 3" WITH OPEN SIGHTS TELLS YOU LITTLE. NO OFFENSE BUT I HEAR GUYS CLAIMING AL THE TIME HOW ACCURATE THERE GUNS ARE WITH OPEN SIGHTS AND HOW IT WOULD DO BETTER IF IT HAD A SCOPE. AS YOU STATED UNLESS YOUR ONE OF THE BEST SHOTS IN THE WORLD YOUR NOT GOING TO BEAT OPTICS ON A SHORT BARRELD GUN. YOUR DADS GUN MIGHT BE A SUBMOA GUN FOR ALL YOU KNOW. TO REALLY FIND OUT WHAT THE GUN IS CAPIABLE OF GETS SOME OPTICS ON EVEN IF TEMPORARY AND SEE WHAT IT WILL DO. HONESTLY TO ME A 3" GROUP AT 100 HAS A LOT OF ROOM FOR IMPROVMENT. IF THE BARREL IS A FACTROY SAIGA DONT ECPECT TO MUCH REGARDLESS OF WHO CONVERTED IT. IST INHARTED ACCURACY WILL NOT HAVE CHANGED MUCH. IM NOT SURE WHAT THE NICKLE PLATING WILL DO TO HELP OHTER THAN MAKE IT EASIER TO CLEAN OR MAKE IT LOOK PRETTY. I HOPE THERE USING A ELECROLESS NICKLE PROCESS OR HYDROGEN EMPRITTLEMENT CAN BE A ISSUE.

YOU NEED TO RELIZE THAT NOT ALL MY GUNS ARE OVER THE TOP. ADDING A SCOPE MOUNT LIKE I BUILD ON A BARREL LESS KIT TAKES NO MORE TIME THAN A NORMAL BUILD. SEE MY SONS HUNTING RIFLE FOR EXAMPLE. BASIC AK + AR STOCK TO FIT HIM+ TRIGGER WORK + HOME MADE SCOPE MOINT+ GOOD SCOPE+ BASICK HAND LOADS WITH SOFTPOINTS FOR HUNTING = A 1" GROUP RIFLE THAT IS A VERY CAPAIABLE OF HUNTING DEER OUT TO 200 YARDS WILL STILL DO EVERY THING YOU ASKING FOR IN ANY SITUATION DEPENDING ON SIGHTS.

THERE NOTHING SPECIAL HERE.

DO A SEARCH ON TRIGGER WORK I HAVE POSTED PLEANTY ON IT I DONT HAVE LINK RIGHT NOW BUT ILL LOOK. I RECOMEND A RED STAR TRIGGER FOR ABOUT $65 INITALY ESPECALY FOR A GUY WHO HASENT MESSED WITH TRIGGER MUCH. EVEN THOSE CAN BE CLEANED UP SOME. BEST MONEY YOU CAN SPEND ON ANY AK.

HERE IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT AS FAR AS BASIC ACCURATE AK. ITS ROUGH IN THESE PICS AS IT WAS FINISHED IN A HURRY FOR LAST DEER SEASON.

1" ACCURACY COMPLETRLY STOCK INTERANLY WITH TRIGGER WORK FACTORY ROMMY BARREL. REMOVE THE STOCK AND FORE NED AND ITS PRETTY MUCH ALL ROMMY WITH MY SCOPE MOUNT. THE SCOPE IS BACK ON MY 30-06 AND IT NOW HAS A 4X CHEAPO FOR GENRAL USE.

I believe this is my first post here. I registered manly to look up info that might help me build accurate AKs, and have found a lot of it in this thread. Otherwise, I've done a lot of lurking.

I want to build pretty much standard rifles, but want them capable of shooting the smallest groups possible, given their near stock features. I have several Romanian G kits, and new virgin 7.62mm barrels. I plan to lap the bolt lugs and set the head space tight. What else should I do to squeeze out the most?

I believe it was in the Sons of Guns thread that use of a short gas system was mentioned as helping make the 1,000-yard AK more accurate. Would there be anything to be gained by using an AMD-type gas system on my builds?

I like to experiment with AKs, and have only one with a standard wooden stock. Everything else is different, and will be different. I want excellent accuracy now. Mostly I shoot Wolf ammo for practice, but I'd test the new rifles with good ammo, even doing reloads to find out what the rifles are capable of. I do use optical sights, as my eyes are too bad to shoot irons well. I consider the irons on my AKs as back-up only. I use UltiMak tubes or TWS dog leg top covers to mount sights.

I would like to build one rifle specifically for accuracy, probably using a milled receiver and a heavy barrel. A varmint gun would be fun. I've gotten a lot of ideas for that here. Thanks for that.

I don't actually assemble rifles myself. I'm not set up for that, but do get help locally. I can be sure of things being done just right.

THE GAS BLOCK WILL POSITION WILL MAKE LITTLE DIFFERANCE ON A HEAVY BARREL. ON MY VARMINT AK I USED A AMD 65 LENGTH PISTION AND IT SHOT ON DIFFERANT THAN WITH NO GAS BLOCK WHAT SO EVER. IN FACT MY PEST GROUPS HAVE BEEN WITHJ THE GB INTALLED AND THE SYSTEM WORKING.

ITS A SIMPLE RECIPE GET THE SCOPE OFF THE RECIVER AND USE GOOD AMMO WITH A GOOD BARREL. A MILLED RECIVER WILL NOT GET YOU MUCH IMOO UNLESS YOU HAVE TO MOUNT THE SCOPE TO THE RECIVER ITS SELF.

I would like to build one rifle specifically for accuracy, probably using a milled receiver and a heavy barrel. A varmint gun would be fun. I've gotten a lot of ideas for that here. Thanks for that.

CONTACT ME VIA PM . I MAY BE DOING A FEW VARMINT BARREL ASSEMBLYS IN THE FUTURE ( WINTER) WITH A A CANTALEVER SCOPE SET UP AND A FEW OTHER TRICKS BASED ON MY RIFLE. I DONT DO THIS FOR A LIVING BTW BUT i HAVE BEEN CONSIDERING DOING A SMALL RUN OF SCOPE MOUNTS AND BARRELS.

I'm brand new to the forum and joined up because I have a Bulgarian 7.62x39 with a Dragunov type stock but no scope mount whatsoever. I was hoping to find advice on what mount to use, the best way to install it and a good red-dot sight to go along with it, but I am having trouble wading through the posts to get there. I'm not looking for "sniper" accuracy, I just wanna be able to easily place a reasonably tight group at 100 yds and shut up some "AR-only" loudmouths. Help!

START WITH GETTING OR LOADING SOME GOOD AMMO. FOR A RED DOT A GAS TUBE MOUNT LIKE THE ULTIMAK OR SIMULAR WILL WORK. YOU MUST DO THE TRIGGER OR YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME AND AMMO. TRY THOSE THINGS FIRST AND THEN WORK FROM THERE. YOU NEED TO HAVE A GOOD BARREL AND REALLY GOOD AMMO TO BEAT OR MATCH A DECENT AR IF YOUR GOING TO BE SHOOTING 7.62X39 AGAINST 223 YOU WILL BE AT A DISATVANTAGE PAST 100 YARDS UNLESS YOU ARE REALLY GOOD AT RANGE ESTIMATION. THE X39 IS ALMOST 1000 FPS SLOWER THAT MAKES IT TOUGH AND THE BULLET bc IS MUCH BETER IN THE 223 SO ITS HARD TO BEAT THEM. NOW IF YOUR COMPEATING AGAINST A X39 AR THEN THATS ANOTHER STORY. ID LIKE A PIECE OF THAT MYSELF