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Tales of the Old [Westerns]

Posts

I remember seeing about the last 25-30 minutes of Hud and thinking that I'd seen the ending to what would have been an awesome movie. The scene with the cattle in the pen (if you've seen the movie, you know which one I'm talking about) was pretty powerful.

I'm watching Stagecoach right now on Instant View and it really is amazing. I wish I hadn't waited this long to see it, and I'd put it near the top of my list of movies to show people who think they don't like Westerns. I love this sort of movie - where a bunch of different people are thrown together by chance and forced to work together (or not) to survive - and this might just do that theme better than anything else I've ever seen.

I'm watching Stagecoach right now on Instant View and it really is amazing. I wish I hadn't waited this long to see it, and I'd put it near the top of my list of movies to show people who think they don't like Westerns. I love this sort of movie - where a bunch of different people are thrown together by chance and forced to work together (or not) to survive - and this might just do that theme better than anything else I've ever seen.

One of the really great things about the film is that Ford shows an economy in that film that predates a lot of modern film technique. Nothing is wasted in the film. Every bit of dialogue builds to something else, even if it doesn't seem like it at the time. When people start talking about how slow, and plodding old movies can be I tend to show them Stagecoach simply because it keeps a quick but steady pace.

Thomamelas on May 2010

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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod

I'm watching Stagecoach right now on Instant View and it really is amazing. I wish I hadn't waited this long to see it, and I'd put it near the top of my list of movies to show people who think they don't like Westerns. I love this sort of movie - where a bunch of different people are thrown together by chance and forced to work together (or not) to survive - and this might just do that theme better than anything else I've ever seen.

One of the really great things about the film is that Ford shows an economy in that film that predates a lot of modern film technique. Nothing is wasted in the film. Every bit of dialogue builds to something else, even if it doesn't seem like it at the time. When people start talking about how slow, and plodding old movies can be I tend to show them Stagecoach simply because it keeps a quick but steady pace.

I've honestly never put much stock in the "slow" complaint. I think people who say that probably either haven't watched many movies, or imagine that everything from before 1977 was like Doctor Zhivago or 2001 or something. A lot of these 1930s movies, in particular, move really quickly, and tell stories in 90 minutes that we'd take two-plus hours to tell today. Actually, I think this is a really good example of that: it clocks in at 96 minutes while the remake from 1966 runs 115.

EDIT: but also, like you, I really do admire Ford's economy. Within, like, ten minutes he's established eight main characters and set up their conflicts and desires and so forth, and John Wayne hasn't even turned up yet! I mean, these characters are to some degree stereotypes (the good-natured prostitute, the conniving banker, and so forth) but they're inhabited by really well-chosen actors and all come to life on the screen.

I'm watching Stagecoach right now on Instant View and it really is amazing. I wish I hadn't waited this long to see it, and I'd put it near the top of my list of movies to show people who think they don't like Westerns. I love this sort of movie - where a bunch of different people are thrown together by chance and forced to work together (or not) to survive - and this might just do that theme better than anything else I've ever seen.

One of the really great things about the film is that Ford shows an economy in that film that predates a lot of modern film technique. Nothing is wasted in the film. Every bit of dialogue builds to something else, even if it doesn't seem like it at the time. When people start talking about how slow, and plodding old movies can be I tend to show them Stagecoach simply because it keeps a quick but steady pace.

I've honestly never put much stock in the "slow" complaint. I think people who say that probably either haven't watched many movies, or imagine that everything from before 1977 was like Doctor Zhivago or 2001 or something. A lot of these 1930s movies, in particular, move really quickly, and tell stories in 90 minutes that we'd take two-plus hours to tell today. Actually, I think this is a really good example of that: it clocks in at 96 minutes while the remake from 1966 runs 115.

And I agree, the idea of old movies being slow is wrong. I just find Stagecoach to be one of the best counter-examples.

Thomamelas on May 2010

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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod

It was really good timing you started this thread when you did, by the way. I was looking it up and apparently Stagecoach literally comes out on DVD today, and has only been up on Instant for a week or two (a preview or something, I guess?). It was funny because right after reading the OP a few days ago I noticed it at the front of my instant queue. Perfect synchronicity.

My favorite has to be the Wild Bunch. I remember it being shown late at night, catching the start of it, and couldn't leave until I'd seen it to the end

There doesn't seem to be enough love for the film, as it's hardly being mentioned in this thread. It's got some of the best set pieces I've seen in a film; the Train Robbery is just about perfect. I strongly urge people who haven't seen it, to try and change that.

As a side note, Peckinpah also made The Cross of Iron, itself being a great WW2 film.

A fist full of dynamite was pretty enjoyable and is worth a look if you've not seen it.

I was very excited to see it, seeing as it starred two great actors in Liam Neeson and Pierce Brosnan, and the cinematography was fairly competent.

But the writings and characterizations were the worst genre cliches one could think of. It reminded me of this SNL sketch, in the way that it seemed like a completely foreign translation of a Western, not an actual Western. It was like there was a check-sheet that the director had to complete:

I was very excited to see it, seeing as it starred two great actors in Liam Neeson and Pierce Brosnan, and the cinematography was fairly competent.

But the writings and characterizations were the worst genre cliches one could think of. It reminded me of this SNL sketch, in the way that it seemed like a completely foreign translation of a Western, not an actual Western. It was like there was a check-sheet that the director had to complete:

That settles that then! I caught a glimpse of it the other night, but it was too late for me to start watching a film, so I turned it off, as I'd rather not ruin what might potentially be a good western. I was going to track it down, but if it's not that good, then I'll save myself the bother.

I was very excited to see it, seeing as it starred two great actors in Liam Neeson and Pierce Brosnan, and the cinematography was fairly competent.

But the writings and characterizations were the worst genre cliches one could think of. It reminded me of this SNL sketch, in the way that it seemed like a completely foreign translation of a Western, not an actual Western. It was like there was a check-sheet that the director had to complete:

That settles that then! I caught a glimpse of it the other night, but it was too late for me to start watching a film, so I turned it off, as I'd rather not ruin what might potentially be a good western. I was going to track it down, but if it's not that good, then I'll save myself the bother.

If you're looking for a good modern Western, you can't go wrong with The Proposition, Open Range, or 3:10 to Yuma.

I was very excited to see it, seeing as it starred two great actors in Liam Neeson and Pierce Brosnan, and the cinematography was fairly competent.

But the writings and characterizations were the worst genre cliches one could think of. It reminded me of this SNL sketch, in the way that it seemed like a completely foreign translation of a Western, not an actual Western. It was like there was a check-sheet that the director had to complete:

That settles that then! I caught a glimpse of it the other night, but it was too late for me to start watching a film, so I turned it off, as I'd rather not ruin what might potentially be a good western. I was going to track it down, but if it's not that good, then I'll save myself the bother.

If you're looking for a good modern Western, you can't go wrong with The Proposition, Open Range, or 3:10 to Yuma.

I found Appaloosa to be also fairly crap.

Also Assassination of Jesse James or The Good the Bad The Weird, though the two are at pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum.

Xagarath on May 2010

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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular

It was really good timing you started this thread when you did, by the way. I was looking it up and apparently Stagecoach literally comes out on DVD today, and has only been up on Instant for a week or two (a preview or something, I guess?). It was funny because right after reading the OP a few days ago I noticed it at the front of my instant queue. Perfect synchronicity.

It's been up on Instant view for a while but it just did the expire/renew thing that happens sometimes.

Thomamelas on May 2010

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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular

I know Dances With Wolves gets a lot of shit, but I love it. The cinematography, music, and locations just really show off how beautiful the plains can be.

Dances with Wolves only gets a lot of shit because it so wholeheartedly buys into the "noble savage" trope, a condescension proven to be wrong time and time again.

But it's a well-acted and beautifully shot film, as many of Kevin Costner's films are. Even Wyatt Earp, at its glacial pace and questionable acting (mostly by Costner), is a great film to look at. At least Costner made one good Western: Open Range.

“Every time we walk along a beach some ancient urge disturbs us so that we find ourselves shedding shoes and garments or scavenging among seaweed and whitened timbers like the homesick refugees of a long war.” - Loren Eiseley

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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular

It's only redeeming feature is some of the acting in it. The plot is boring and for a film set in the outback, it's pretty ugly looking too.

Morgenstern on May 2010

“Every time we walk along a beach some ancient urge disturbs us so that we find ourselves shedding shoes and garments or scavenging among seaweed and whitened timbers like the homesick refugees of a long war.” - Loren Eiseley

I'm interested to hear more about why the noble savage trope in Dances gets flack. My knowledge of Plains Indians history is limited to primarily Chief Joseph and Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee, which tend to paint the US as being the silliest of geese when it came to dealing with these people, but I digress.

For the longest time, my only real exposure to westerns was the TV show Dr. Quinn: Medicine Woman, which was pretty horrible. Playing RDR makes me want to experience more.

How is the Lonesome Dove miniseries viewed? My father loved it, but he has horrible taste in just about everything.

Gosh, can't say I've seen enough Westerns, even though I like them. The remake of 3:10 to Yuma is great.

The remake of 3:10 was shitty. The movie isn't even internally consistent.

For instance, the main villain murders at least 3 people on the way to the train stop. But when he gets there he is all like "i like to do things easy like, we will totally let you live". Man fucking what? We just watched you murder your way through the countryside?!?! And then the ruthless second in command gets there and is all like "hey I will give you money if you rescue the boss!" and then proceeds to cold bloodedly murder people who he made a deal with to spare for getting out of the way... and no one leaves his posse.. they all still think they're going to get paid. The entire fucking movie was like this! The original (which you can get streaming on Netflix) is much better

Gosh, can't say I've seen enough Westerns, even though I like them. The remake of 3:10 to Yuma is great.

The remake of 3:10 was shitty. The movie isn't even internally consistent.

For instance, the main villain murders at least 3 people on the way to the train stop. But when he gets there he is all like "i like to do things easy like, we will totally let you live". Man fucking what? We just watched you murder your way through the countryside?!?! And then the ruthless second in command gets there and is all like "hey I will give you money if you rescue the boss!" and then proceeds to cold bloodedly murder people who he made a deal with to spare for getting out of the way... and no one leaves his posse.. they all still think they're going to get paid. The entire fucking movie was like this! The original (which you can get streaming on Netflix) is much better

Yes. Movie wasn't very good. It had a lot of potential, and Ben Foster played an awesome bad guy, but there are much better movies out there.

I'm interested to hear more about why the noble savage trope in Dances gets flack. My knowledge of Plains Indians history is limited to primarily Chief Joseph and Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee, which tend to paint the US as being the silliest of geese when it came to dealing with these people, but I digress.

For the longest time, my only real exposure to westerns was the TV show Dr. Quinn: Medicine Woman, which was pretty horrible. Playing RDR makes me want to experience more.

How is the Lonesome Dove miniseries viewed? My father loved it, but he has horrible taste in just about everything.

Okay, I'll take this then. The reason Dances with Wolves gets so much shit is that the ground had been covered before by the Revisionist Westerns like Little Big Man, which had done it much, much better and without the patronizing tone. The characters in the films are cardboard cutouts for the most part. And when you compare it to films like Little Big Man or Last of the Mohicans then Dances tends to fall apart. It's simplistic at best.

True Grit: Watching Glen Campbell spank Kim Darby with the roommates was hi-larious. I quite liked it, overall. My challenge when films from that era, especially when I'm with other people, is not to get totally distracted by era-quirks, like the spanking and the Chinaman.

Hey, any of you Western aficionados know anything about Osterns? I read about them on wiki and was interested if anyone has seen any and/or has recommendations.

Osterns, BTW, are Russian Westerns, usually set against the backdrop of the revolution.

I know a little bit about them but not well enough to make a recommendation. White Sun of the Desert I've seen bits and pieces of but I never could find the whole thing. I should check Amazon for it now.

How is the Lonesome Dove miniseries viewed? My father loved it, but he has horrible taste in just about everything.

Thank God someone mentioned this. I LOVE this miniseries, and I'm not a huge fan of westerns. Robert Duvall reminds me of my dad so much in this show. I've read interviews given by Duvall where he claims that the greatest acting experience he's ever had was playing Gus McRae. I have the book, the DVD, and the Blu-Ray of this, and would reccommend it to anyone interested in Westerns.

I've purchased about 30 or so westerns in the last couple of months, ranging the whole gamut. I'm still missing some classics, but I've hit quite a few of the John Wayne movies, and some Clint Eastwood. I was going today to buy Appaloosa and Hidalgo on blul-ray.

EDIT: Man, i gotta do something about that av and sig.

valhalla130 on June 2010

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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular

I've purchased abtou 30 or so westerns in the last couple of months, ranging the whole gamut. I'm still missing some classics, but I've hit quite a few of the John Wayne movies, and some Clint Eastwood. I was going today to buy Appaloosa and Hidalgo on blul-ray.

One suggestion. John Wayne did a bunch of Westerns before Stagecoach. Just leave them be. Life is much better if you pretend his acting career started with Stagecoach.

I've purchased abtou 30 or so westerns in the last couple of months, ranging the whole gamut. I'm still missing some classics, but I've hit quite a few of the John Wayne movies, and some Clint Eastwood. I was going today to buy Appaloosa and Hidalgo on blul-ray.

One suggestion. John Wayne did a bunch of Westerns before Stagecoach. Just leave them be. Life is much better if you pretend his acting career started with Stagecoach.

I pretty much figured that when I saw the massive amount of them. They're tantamount to shovelware for the Wii.

valhalla130 on June 2010

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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular

Fun Fact: Patrick Mcgoohan, star and creator of The Prisoner, wrote an episode of the series that was a Western, as opposed to the typical Secret Agent/Thriller themed episode. His reason for this? The United Kingdom didn't have any Westerns on television at the time, and he wished to change that. The episode was entitled Living in Harmony, and is currently hosted on AMC.com