I don't disagree at all but allow me to play devils advocate on a slow news day in Canuck Nation... Are we talking about Luongo who got yanked in the post season and lost his job Cory Schneider and is 33 yrs old with a cap hit of 5.33 and he is going to be the saviour in Florida??? Just playing Dale Talon here Convince me to make a deal... Is Louie a better goalie in Van than he would be here cause the team in front of him is better in Van??? Would his Van #'s translate to the Panthers given he put up those numbers on a presidents trophy winning team??? As Dale Talon I am asking myself these questions...

Convince me to make this deal from a Florida perspective I don't see Florida's pressure point I see the Leafs cuz they gotta make the postseason or Burkes Fired but I don't see Florida's... All I see in Florida is a team loaded with prospects one of which is a goalie who is as year away, maybe 2 tops and thats prrobably pushing it giving up substantial stuff for a goalie who is 33 and has 10 yrs left on a deal I mean wow... When you factor in Versteeg just got a new deal 4.4 over yrs when you factor in Wiess is a UFA next yr and they wanna lock him up this isn't a spend to the cap team...

Jakob Markstrom hurts any potential deal with the Panthers cause they really like him as the goalie of the future... I have a tough time believing he sits for 7-10 yrs while Luongo plays out his contract in Coral Gables...

I still believe at the end of the day Toronto makes the most sense there are less obstacles in the way of a trade Not saying Florida couldn't get done but IMO Toronto HAS to make this deal Florida can go into next season as is Burke doesn't have that Luxury...

whether you like it or don't like it learn to live with it because its the best thing going today...

paddy wrote:Cody Franson is a better defenseman than the great Chris Tanev I know its had to believe cuz Tanev does so much, very well like he is great at the ??? part of the game... And he adds???? to our team... Tanev will never be any more than a 5/6 cuz he does nothing WELL enough to be anymore than that... career Tanev stats... 54 games 0 goals 3 assists +10 career Franson.... 198games 19 goals 52 assists +24Franson is 6'5 220 PHYSICAL and a BC boy I will take his trash any day of the week over Tanev and twice on Sundays...

Franson is a guy I've looked at since he was traded to Toronto and thought, man that is exactly the guy we need. I really would have loved MG to pick up the salary dump by Nashville that led to Franson being acquired and burying Lombardi in the minors.

BUT, I was very surprised to see he was a healthy scratch on a Maple Leafs team that needed huge help on the defensive side of the game and is surprisingly small and non-truculent. I didn't watch them closely enough to comment, but that alone gives me some concern.

I'd definitely be ok with swapping a draft pick for him, but I wouldn't want him as the centerpiece of a Luongo deal.

paddy wrote:Tyler Bozak scored 18 goals last year as a pivot had 47 points sidenote Raymonds career high is 53 pts thats 6 points shy of 21's career season that he will never hit here again...

Speaking of things that will never be achieved again, the 16.5% shooting percentage and almost 19:00 minutes per game (nearly 3:00 on the powerplay) playing mostly with his team's top two forwards that got Bozak to 18 goals.

Tyler Bozak salary 1.6 as a center who can fill in for Kesler and then slides down to the 3 hole And you have a problem with this player or this scenario because???? One man's garbage is another mans treasure... Keep hearing how the Canucks need a shutdown center as a 3rd liner This team needs more Offense... Bozak gives you Cody #s and is a better skater....

I'd take Bozak as the throw-in on a deal but I'm not convinced he'd be a better third line center in 2012-13 than Manny Malhotra.

Anyway you've posted a few times in a couple of threads along these lines and I want to address a couple of other aspects while I'm at it.

You can compare Jose Theodore in 2011-12 to Roberto Luongo in 2011-12 just like you can do the same with say, Tyler Bozak (73 GP 18 G 29 A 47 P) and Ryan Kesler (77 GP 22 G 27 A 49 P).. you can make the argument that they were comparable last year but surely nobody believes that there is any doubt as to who will be the more valuable player next year. Theodore put up a nice season last year but since the lockout he has three seasons at or under .900, two seasons around .910 (ie. sub-par) and two seasons above .915. Luongo has as many post-lockout seasons below the .915 mark as Theodore has above it.

And anyway, saying the Panthers couldn't accomodate Roberto Luongo because they have Jakob Markstrom is like saying the Maple Leafs didn't need to trade for James Van Riemsdyk because one day Joe Colborne is going to make the team. It might be true - if Markstrom's health problems aren't a factor and he pans out as a starter - but years of instability in the meantime aren't acceptable for a team that needs to operate like a business - the Panthers can't sell out their building regardless of the on ice product like the Leafs can.

I would agree at the end of the day that the Leafs should be more desperate for Luongo than the Panthers are, but I don't think that's because Luongo is not a fit in Florida or anything like that.

I like Bozak a little better than you do I think he is a better player than Manny I also think given the Leafs depth at C he is the odd guy out... I won't compare him to Kesler cause its night and day but I think he can give you what Cody gave you in the 3 hole... I don't think Manny gives you that or Max or Schroeder... Franson too me is a no brainer 6'5 220 physical and some upside offensively I didn't see your thoughts on him as a player as well as Tanev who in my opinion is just a guy...

whether you like it or don't like it learn to live with it because its the best thing going today...

paddy wrote:I don't disagree at all but allow me to play devils advocate on a slow news day in Canuck Nation... Are we talking about Luongo who got yanked in the post season and lost his job Cory Schneider and is 33 yrs old with a cap hit of 5.33 and he is going to be the saviour in Florida??? Just playing Dale Talon here Convince me to make a deal... Is Louie a better goalie in Van than he would be here cause the team in front of him is better in Van??? Would his Van #'s translate to the Panthers given he put up those numbers on a presidents trophy winning team??? As Dale Talon I am asking myself these questions...

Lou put up just fine numbers in Florida (better than Theodore does now and they've become a pretty good little defensive outfit) and many insiders believe he is better now than he was as a Panther.

Convince me to make this deal from a Florida perspective I don't see Florida's pressure point I see the Leafs cuz they gotta make the postseason or Burkes Fired but I don't see Florida's... All I see in Florida is a team loaded with prospects one of which is a goalie who is as year away, maybe 2 tops and thats prrobably pushing it giving up substantial stuff for a goalie who is 33 and has 10 yrs left on a deal I mean wow... When you factor in Versteeg just got a new deal 4.4 over yrs when you factor in Wiess is a UFA next yr and they wanna lock him up this isn't a spend to the cap team...

Luongo is a big contract but Florida ownership have already okayed it - they may not spend to the cap but they seem to be okay with a "face of the franchise" type coming into the fold. As a known quantity down there Lou can be the center of marketing campaigns, will sell jerseys etc.

Furthermore, look at the Eastern conference - you have what, five absolutely guaranteed playoff teams (NYR, Pittsburgh, Philly, Boston, Washington) and another big group of teams that are competitors for the playoffs: Ottawa, Tampa, Florida, Carolina, Toronto, Montreal, Buffalo, New Jersey. Essentially the Panthers are competing with seven teams for three playoff spots and a lot of those teams have improved.

Luongo is probably the difference between 88 and 93 points for a team (ie 10th to 7th in the east last year) or even between a close fought first round lose and a few extra home games in the second round.

Jakob Markstrom hurts any potential deal with the Panthers cause they really like him as the goalie of the future... I have a tough time believing he sits for 7-10 yrs while Luongo plays out his contract in Coral Gables...

Markstrom is not a factor at the NHL level right now and let's not forget that the Panthers do have an out clause coming before the end of Luongo's big salary days so if he does develop and does not have health issues they can move him if they really want to.

At the end of the day, having options is a good thing. You know Luongo gives you the option of relying on your starter over the bulk of the season, Theodore doesn't give you that and Markstrom might never. If down the road you're forced to choose between Luongo and a great young goaltender pushing for his job that's a good problem to have.

I still believe at the end of the day Toronto makes the most sense there are less obstacles in the way of a trade Not saying Florida couldn't get done but IMO Toronto HAS to make this deal Florida can go into next season as is Burke doesn't have that Luxury...

It depends on their goals for next season - both teams want to build on their seasons last year but for Toronto all that really means is not having a horrible late season collapse, for the Panthers that means another division title, a second round playoff appearance.. and the money involved in that actually matters for the Panthers. It's not that it does not matter to the Leafs but they'll be raking it in no matter what happens on the ice.

If Toronto truly HAS to make the deal they will get it done but I suspect Brian Burke will have trouble overcoming his instinct to nickel and dime his counterpart in a goaltender trade and he just does not have the assets that Dale Tallon has at his disposal.

paddy wrote:I like Bozak a little better than you do I think he is a better player than Manny I also think given the Leafs depth at C he is the odd guy out... I won't compare him to Kesler cause its night and day but I think he can give you what Cody gave you in the 3 hole... I don't think Manny gives you that or Max or Schroeder... Franson too me is a no brainer 6'5 220 physical and some upside offensively I didn't see your thoughts on him as a player as well as Tanev who in my opinion is just a guy...

Honestly I don't know much about Franson but I wonder why he's failed to stick with two teams now (that IMO both have very overrated defensive depth). I understand he has mobility issues and is not known for his play in his own zone. Of course I also was of the understanding that Franson is not an especially physical player so perhaps I'm wrong on the other things too.

Tanev is just a guy right now but his development curve has been as steep as anyone over the past three or four years and I'd like to see what kind of player he is when it levels off. I suspect he'll have some more elements to his game (which I agree is limited right now) once he gets a couple seasons of NHL action under his belt.

paddy wrote:Convince me to make this deal from a Florida perspective I don't see Florida's pressure point I see the Leafs cuz they gotta make the postseason or Burkes Fired but I don't see Florida's... I still believe at the end of the day Toronto makes the most sense there are less obstacles in the way of a trade Not saying Florida couldn't get done but IMO Toronto HAS to make this deal Florida can go into next season as is Burke doesn't have that Luxury...

I like that their salaries and cap hits are comparable (almost identical), they are the same age and Hossa's contract runs one year less than Lou's, and Hossa can score and play setup man.

I don't like Hossa's track record as far as injuries go over the last few seasons, and I do think he is somewhat overrated.....but not terribly so. I see him as a bigger version of Markus Naslund.

With some holes on the blueline, and the Sedin's contracts expiring in a couple of years, I don't know that I want to add a 33 (34 after the lockout) year old forward, with a $5.2M cap hit, to the roster if he comes with 9 years remaining on his contract.

I tend to agree with Mike Gillis that if there is a position that the lifetime contract makes sense for, it's the goaltender.. let Raffi Torres or some other dime a dozen goon take another crack at Hossa and he might spend the rest of his lifetime contract "rehabilitating" so he can keep collecting cheques.

That being said if the proposed rule dinging the original team when a player on a long term deal retires comes to fruition, a Hossa for Luongo deal would be extremely interesting if only in an off the ice, Mutually Assured Destruction sense.