RolandDeschain wrote:Considering the people at extremeskins.com say anyone calling Sean Taylor a thug is racist, and that thug is a "racially-charged term", I find Fight 4 Old DC's post pretty amusing.

It is racist. You never hear white people get called thugs. If he's intimidating,Black, had long hair, he must be a thug right?

Sean Taylor was never a thug. He was a football player.

His only charge was drinking and driving. These accusations are based off his apperance, nothing more.

Fair enough. My intentions weren't to specifically call out the Rams vs. Cowboys..The point was some on this board seem to suggest that the difference between the two divisions was like a BCS conference and Division 3. Saying the Redskins would finish 6-10 tops was silly to me.

I'd agree with that sentiment. If it had been a comparison earlier in the season (like when Arizona started off 4-0 and all the teams in the division looked pretty damn good), it might have been different. Likewise, there was a stretch in late October/early November when both the Cowboys and Skins were in a bit of a swoon - both with records well under .500 - followed by the Giants starting off November losing two in a row.

It's likely that image of the Skins and Cowboys struggling to get back over .500, the Giants' inconsistency, and the absolute collapse of the Eagles that lead many to peg the NFC East as a significantly inferior division. Kudos to Dallas and Washington for those late season runs to push the division crown into the last week of the season (which, in my opinion, is when you want to get hot and put together a nice win streak).

But when you look at that compared to our division, we didn't really have all 4 teams struggling at points like that. The Rams were up and down most of the season while the Cards had a collapse every bit as epic as Philly's (though, I'd argue they didn't have the same expectations placed on them at the season's start). but the 49ers and Seahawks have been pretty consistently good-to-great this season. Seattle never dropped below .500 after Week 1, and the 49ers were incredibly consistent (check their win, win, non-win pattern throughout the season). That's where I think we have the edge in overall quality.

Fair enough. My intentions weren't to specifically call out the Rams vs. Cowboys..The point was some on this board seem to suggest that the difference between the two divisions was like a BCS conference and Division 3. Saying the Redskins would finish 6-10 tops was silly to me.

I'd agree with that sentiment. If it had been a comparison earlier in the season (like when Arizona started off 4-0 and all the teams in the division looked pretty damn good), it might have been different. Likewise, there was a stretch in late October/early November when both the Cowboys and Skins were in a bit of a swoon - both with records well under .500 - followed by the Giants starting off November losing two in a row.

It's likely that image of the Skins and Cowboys struggling to get back over .500, the Giants' inconsistency, and the absolute collapse of the Eagles that lead many to peg the NFC East as a significantly inferior division. Kudos to Dallas and Washington for those late season runs to push the division crown into the last week of the season (which, in my opinion, is when you want to get hot and put together a nice win streak).

But when you look at that compared to our division, we didn't really have all 4 teams struggling at points like that. The Rams were up and down most of the season while the Cards had a collapse every bit as epic as Philly's (though, I'd argue they didn't have the same expectations placed on them at the season's start). but the 49ers and Seahawks have been pretty consistently good-to-great this season. Seattle never dropped below .500 after Week 1, and the 49ers were incredibly consistent (check their win, win, non-win pattern throughout the season). That's where I think we have the edge in overall quality.

See this is the type of assessment that I can respect. You presented a solid, factually based argument. That is the basis of my argument and why I will stick by my belief that the team that has the superior strategy, and executes the more fundamentally sound game plan will win this game. As a Redskins fan (born and raised here) obviously I hope my team is victorious.

Pikachu wrote:His only charge was drinking and driving. These accusations are based off his apperance, nothing more.

He's a thug because of aggravated assault (which he luckily was able to plead down) and being suspected of more. I don't know where you get off saying his only charge was drinking & driving. Also, there are plenty of white thugs; you're the one making the racial distinction.

SeaTown81 wrote:I fear the wrath this comment is going to get me from Redskin nation. But whatever. The level to which they have deified Taylor is scary. Nothing against the guy. But dude was just a dude.

No wrath needed. He was a young exceptionally talented player who was just beginning to touch the surface of his potential. Unfortunately he lost his life protecting his family in his own home. He wasn't out at some night club, or gang-banging on some street corner. Sure he made some stupid decisions early on as a young man..but Redskins fans watched his growth as a person and maturity level. We were excited about what we knew he could become (He was already a phenomenally talented player by that time in his young career).

He was home grown, drafted by our team not a free agent, so yes it was a tough pill to swallow when he was lost. I'm not sure if to you this is making him some sort of divinity...I can't speak for the rest of Redskins Nation..but that's how I viewed him.

I guess this is true in the D.C. area, since being charged with 3 counts of felony assault is just a typical day around there...? He managed to get it dropped in a plea agreement, but still. You guys seriously need to stop beating the Sean Taylor drum around here; keep it to your own forums, please.

Back to the topic at hand. I have a question for Redskins fans. Are you at all concerned about only putting up one touchdown against an elite defense this year? Granted, I'm referring only to the Steelers game; the Ravens defense finished the year ranked 19th by Football Outsiders. Injury, age, and under-performance have made that unit go from champs to chumps in a record-setting time frame. The Seahawks finished the year #1 in defense for points allowed, which is by far the most important defensive measuring metric.

I think it will take a phenomenal day (your best of the year) on offense to put up good points against us. While that certainly might happen, I wouldn't count it as likely.

Redskins fan here and I come in peace.I’m not here to troll or to make asinine comments like “We’ll beat you because you guys suck…blah, blah, blah." I’m here because I’ve been reading your board all week and it simply puzzles me how arrogant and overconfident some here are about this weekend’s game. I mean, I’ve read comments like:

“You guys have No Shot.!”“Our team is better than yours at every position”“You won’t score more than 13 points on us”“We’ll hang 50 on ya”

Really? I mean really….some speak as if the Seahawks are traveling across country to play the Maryland Terrapins this Sunday. I get it, your team is very balanced, young, well put together, hungry, and playing exceptionally well right now.But…...so are the Redskins. How can you rationally conclude that a professional team that has run off 7 consecutive victories and hosting a home playoff game has absolutely zero shot at winning number 8? I don’t care who that team has played. You can only play who they put in front of you.And the statement that someone here made that “If the Redskins played in the NFCW they’d be 6-10 at best this season” seems very misguided. The NFC West was extremely top heavy this season.49ers 11-4-1Seahawks 11-5Rams 7-8-1Cardinals 5-11While the argument could be made that the NFC East had more balance (albeit in a down year)Redskins 10-6Giants 9-7Cowboys 8-8Eagles 4-12

The only team in the division that absolutely sucked eggs was the Eagles. Somehow the Redskins finished with a 5-1 divisional record. Yes; 50% of the NFCW was very good (49ers and Seahawks). Whereas, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone objective who would claim that both the Giants and Cowboys (though inconsistent this year) completely sucked. So 75% of the NFCE was at least above average. (If it were not for the Redskins, both the Giants and the Cowboys would have finished 10-6).

Please don’t make this about our team mascot or fight song. I'm talking Football here. No, not EVERY Redskins fan is an idiot. Nor is every Redskins fan lacking in football knowledge. I can say with full confidence that I can discuss X’s and O’s with ANYONE. (I played 3 years division 1-AA ball and coach HS football). So please don’t try to tell me that schematically the Redskins have “No Shot”.You guys have a very good team, not denial here. But this is the NFL; you just don’t win 7 straight without doing something right.

Am I saying with 100% certainty that the Redskins will win this weekend? No. But do I think we have a darn good chance? You bet I do.

So you're making the argument that three above average teams and a crap team makes for a tougher division than two stud teams (don't take my word for it, look at the end of season rankings), a mediocre team and a crap team because....there's more balance? Seahawks outside their division? 8-2. Redskins? 5-5. You feasted on an inferior division homie, but hey that's exactly what you are supposed to do. Just don't think you are on our level.

No sir, I am making the argument that to say the NFCW is miles above the NFCE is ridiculous.

"On our level" LOL...my friend...this is exactly what I'm referring to. Some here are waaayyy too confident heading into this game..Like the Seahawks are the 85 Bears...

These are two young, talented, and confident squads who are extremely hungry and motivated. If the Seahawks execute, limit mistakes, and have a superior strategy, then they will win. Likewise, for the Redskins. But in no way shape or form will one team lose simply because they weren't "On the other team's Level." That's just silly fanboy talk.

You aren't on our level. Our defenses and special teams aren't even close. Your team can win, if the Seahawks turn the ball over and beat themselves, which with their road woes could happen. If this game was at the Clink it wouldn't even be a problem. If both teams play close to their capabilities, you lose.

Pikachu wrote:His only charge was drinking and driving. These accusations are based off his apperance, nothing more.

He's a thug because of aggravated assault (which he luckily was able to plead down) and being suspected of more. I don't know where you get off saying his only charge was drinking & driving. Also, there are plenty of white thugs; you're the one making the racial distinction.

please can we let ST rest in peace. I don't know who started this between skins fans and hawk fans but it should really stop...

Pikachu wrote:His only charge was drinking and driving. These accusations are based off his apperance, nothing more.

He's a thug because of aggravated assault (which he luckily was able to plead down) and being suspected of more. I don't know where you get off saying his only charge was drinking & driving. Also, there are plenty of white thugs; you're the one making the racial distinction.

please can we let ST rest in peace. I don't know who started this between skins fans and hawk fans but it should really stop...

I'd agree with this, let the man rest in peace. Sounds like Redskins fans have a special place in their hearts for this guy, which I totally understand, and respect.

It's kind of like for me, when I'm browsing a Redskins forum, and see some smack talk directed at Seattle (not the team, but the city), with some pretty bad comments about Kurt Cobain or Layne Staley..... ouch, low blow. Somethings should just be off limits. imho

Long you live and high you fly, and smiles you’ll give and tears you’ll cry, and all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be

burggold75 wrote:please can we let ST rest in peace. I don't know who started this between skins fans and hawk fans but it should really stop...

Couldn't agree more. No offense to you, bburggold. You're cool. But it's your fans that aren't letting this die. Heck, most of us totally forgot about the entire deal. Not to mention Taylor himself. It seems your fans took a couple small isolated incidents and blew them up to ridiculous levels, creating some insane rallying cry to to run with 5 years after the fact. It's really sad. If your fans would just shut up about it, none of us would've even thought to talk about it. Your fans have slandered, accused, and antagonized us as a fanbase. All it did was provoke. This is sadly all on the same fans playing the victim card. Ridiculous and stupid as hell.

burggold75 wrote:please can we let ST rest in peace. I don't know who started this between skins fans and hawk fans but it should really stop...

Couldn't agree more. No offense to you, bburggold. You're cool. But it's your fans that aren't letting this die. Heck, most of us totally forgot about the entire deal. Not to mention Taylor himself. It seems your fans took a couple small isolated incidents and blew them up to ridiculous levels, creating some insane rallying cry to to run with 5 years after the fact. It's really sad. If your fans would just shut up about it, none of us would've even thought to talk about it. Your fans have slandered, accused, and antagonized us as a fanbase. All it did was provoke. This is sadly all on the same fans playing the victim card. Ridiculous and stupid as hell.

And amazingly, all these Redskins fans were there all of a sudden, so their slanderous stories can't be challenged.

burggold75 wrote:please can we let ST rest in peace. I don't know who started this between skins fans and hawk fans but it should really stop...

Couldn't agree more. No offense to you, bburggold. You're cool. But it's your fans that aren't letting this die. Heck, most of us totally forgot about the entire deal. Not to mention Taylor himself. It seems your fans took a couple small isolated incidents and blew them up to ridiculous levels, creating some insane rallying cry to to run with 5 years after the fact. It's really sad. If your fans would just shut up about it, none of us would've even thought to talk about it. Your fans have slandered, accused, and antagonized us as a fanbase. All it did was provoke. This is sadly all on the same fans playing the victim card. Ridiculous and stupid as hell.

This is coming from a die-hard ST fan...i mean he is immortalized in my eyes. I always wear #21 jersey and probably always will

I'm ready to let it go and forget about it. If I see anyone bringing this up I'll tell them to drop it. I agree we are the ones that need to let this go...

Lol...okay..I get it now...The Redskins are not worthy of sharing the same field with your All-Mighty Seahawks.. The only way they have a snowball's chance in hell of winning is IF your team GIVES them turnovers (not have them forced), and beat themselves...How the Redskins play, will have absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of the game....right?

Funny, I seem to remember just a few years ago when the Seahawks seemed to "NOT" be on the Saints level with a losing record in the first round of the playoffs yet somehow, someway, magically pulled off the victory...

Lol...okay..I get it now...The Redskins are not worthy of sharing the same field with your All-Mighty Seahawks.. The only way they have a snowball's chance in hell of winning is IF your team GIVES them turnovers (not have them forced), and beat themselves...How the Redskins play, will have absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of the game....right?

pinksheets wrote:Yeah, the Redskins offense, if you take the whole year's stats, has been slightly better than the Seahawks. If you look at the last chunk of games, it appears the Seahawks have edged them out. Either way, even if we concede offense to the Skins, the difference between the defenses is not slight. The Seahawks straight up have a very significantly better defense. They allow 9 points less a game than the Redskins.

I'll have to say even then you have to consider opponent strength, even though there number are identical lets not forget the Seattle's offense was playing against better defenses and their defense was playing against better offenses

strength of schedule and divisional strength means a lot in this league, if you get comfortable beating mediocre teams and thinking your all sorted out only hurts you when you meet a well rounded team, and that facet usually shows up, niners vs hawks in point..

fact of the matter is even when Wilson and Co. were on a short leash they beat some extremely formidable opponents, the Packers, the Patriots, the Bears, the Vikings and then the Niners week 16 ofter they opened they play book to chapter 2, c'mon man just those 5 teams alone share a 54-25-1 record amongst themselves, 54-25 and 1, every one of those teams having 10 or more wins..

lets move onto the Redskins with their 5 strongest opponent wins, Bengals, Ravens, Vikings, Giants, Cowboys... 47-34-0 combined W/L record with 3 of those teams having 10+ wins, one right at .500

does that say anything? it does but what says the most are the remaining teams W/L records, welp they lost to the Panthers, that summarizes the strength of schedule for me but I'll call it a warsh as the Hawks did suffer a close loss to the Dolphins, a team that finished 7-9

I guess my point is that your strength of opponent stiffens you up for the finale, it makes sense that if you're beating high caliber teams and getting better towards the end of your season it also makes sense that your team may be stronger than a team that has been beating lesser opponents towards the end of their schedule simply due to conditioning?

any given Sunday is a fact but if you cut out all the BS and survey on common sense and statistics and say Vegas is about right giving the Hawks the nodd at -3 ginst the skins? but remember Vegas gave the Hawks the nodd at -3.5 when the Niners came to town week 16 and the Hawks steamrolled Vegas by 25.5 points...

The strength of schedule aspect teaches teams how to play 60 minutes, when you get to this point of the season you learn to not let up on a team since they can come back and beat you, the line between rans and also rans is very fine and being on the up side of that is fleeting with free agency so good teams keep feeding the fire as long as their staffs are intact and players can be inserted and found to maintain the systems in place.

As teams lose coaches and front office people and scouts the erosion starts, keeping on top gets very hard.

N.E. seen some of that, Green Bay is the next one I think to fall from pilaging the front office and staff.

To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!! Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. Member of the 38 club.

I hope we beat the Redskins so badly, Flynn plays the entire 4th quarter. An entire quarter with backups in a playoff game. That would be sick. I wonder if that has ever happened before in the playoffs?

SeaTown81 wrote:I fear the wrath this comment is going to get me from Redskin nation. But whatever. The level to which they have deified Taylor is scary. Nothing against the guy. But dude was just a dude.

No wrath needed. He was a young exceptionally talented player who was just beginning to touch the surface of his potential. Unfortunately he lost his life protecting his family in his own home. He wasn't out at some night club, or gang-banging on some street corner. Sure he made some stupid decisions early on as a young man..but Redskins fans watched his growth as a person and maturity level. We were excited about what we knew he could become (He was already a phenomenally talented player by that time in his young career).

He was home grown, drafted by our team not a free agent, so yes it was a tough pill to swallow when he was lost. I'm not sure if to you this is making him some sort of divinity...I can't speak for the rest of Redskins Nation..but that's how I viewed him.

You could see his growth, because before he died he was leading the league in INT's.

Lol...okay..I get it now...The Redskins are not worthy of sharing the same field with your All-Mighty Seahawks.. The only way they have a snowball's chance in hell of winning is IF your team GIVES them turnovers (not have them forced), and beat themselves...How the Redskins play, will have absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of the game....right?

Funny, I seem to remember just a few years ago when the Seahawks seemed to "NOT" be on the Saints level with a losing record in the first round of the playoffs yet somehow, someway, magically pulled off the victory...

Fortunately, an actual football game will be played on Sunday...

Easy now, you have your views and we have ours and you surely didn't expect them to agree did you? Lets not look for reasons to argue, lets just talk football.