Former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, walking into a political lions den, told the years largest gathering of social conservatives that he is not always the best example of faith but that their similarities are much greater than their differences.

Isnt it better that I tell you what I really believe instead of changing all my positions? Giuliani told an audience of 2,000 at the Family Research Council's Values Voters Summit at a Washington hotel. I believe trust is more important than 100 percent agreement.

The audience, generally hostile to Giuliani, recognized the shot at former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, and laughter and a few cheers spread across the room.

The former mayor, who left the stage grinning amid applause after his 40-minute speech, went for an authenticity contrast with Romney, substituting his law and order credentials for the family values emphasis of Romney, a long-married father of five.

Giuliani paid obeisance to the groups concerns by speaking at length about his support for school choice, home schooling, conservative judges and Israel.

All drew earnest  even enthusiastic  applause. He also gave a detailed plan for reducing abortions and increasing adoptions, the meatiest policy element of his speech.

It was the everything but approach  he could agree with the audience on almost everything except whether a woman should be able to choose an abortion, which he supports.

"You and I know Im not a perfect person, he said. I pray for forgiveness, I pray for strength.... I feel my faith deeply, although perhaps more privately than others, because of the way I was brought up. He said he had prayed to God at the toughest parts of his life.

During our lives, at some time, all of us need forgiveness, he added. If we expect perfection from our political leaders, were just asking for disappointment .... We lose trust when theyre not honest with us.... I dont always agree with myself. [Laughter] Youll always know where I stand.... I will continue to extend my hand to you. I hope youll take it.

Giuliani showed humor, noting that he almost entered seminary: I know thats hard to believe. Noting that he attended Catholic school, he said the first school he attended where a prayer wasnt said at the beginning of the day was the New York University School of Law.

He said that on the first day, out of confusion, he made the sign of the cross. I looked around and realized people were staring at me, he joked.

Giuliani pointed out that as New York mayor, he reduced murder, drugs, prostitution and other vices. "I don't believe in inevitable decline," he said, adding he shares President Ronald Reagan's belief in optimism.

"You put Republican ideas into action.... We got results. Humbly, I would say, the best results anyone in that time got in government."

"We drove pornography out of Times Square and other public spaces," he said, drawing hearty applause. "The pornographers lost and they were driven out of Times Square."

Instead of pandering to the group, Giuliani held his ground.

Weve got to find a way to be more inclusive, Giuliani said. Christianity is all about inclusiveness. Its built around the most profound act of love in human history, isnt it? Im running for president of the United States because I believe I can bring us together. Strong leadership can help us find common solutions to our problems.

Giuliani drew laughter by saying he spends as little time in Washington as possible: Im afraid theres something in the air here.

Im not going to pretend that I can be all things to all people, he declared. Im just not like that.

But he added, in another dig at Romney, Ill always be honest with you.... You will always know where I stand.

You have absolutely nothing to fear from me, Giuliani went on, adding that he was puzzled by those who make him out to be some kind of liberal activist: Just read any New York Times editorial when I was mayor of New York City. That got a big laugh.

Giuliani was speaking to one of the most conservative audiences in American politics. During a Christian worship service from the podium an hour before Giuliani spoke, leader Ron Freeman interspersed the praise hymn Blessed be the Name with the hopeful wish:

Weve got the right Senate and the Congress! The prayer included: Weve tried hard to make your agenda, our agenda.

So tell my how some other candidate will do in Nov 2008 better than Rudy, and exactly why.

If you tell me that hard core conservatives will stay home and not vote for Rudy. Fine. I think Rudy will pick up more centrists and liberals. So tell me why there will be more stubborn conservatives determined to help Hillary win by staying home than there will be gain from picking up centrists?

“The presidency is the total sum of the administration, not one man. A Republican presidency will empower the Republican party, bringing Republican judges and helping Republican congressional candidates”

I notice you throw around the word “Republican” a lot, but I don’t see the word “Conservative” anywhere in your post.

They have delusional fantasies about what happened in 1994 will happen in 2010. They fail to forget about what the democrats are willing to do, including destroying our country, to grab and to hold onto power.

They say Reagan this and Reagan that, and they failed to remember that once Reagan lost to Ford in 1976 Reagan didn’t pout and go out and form a third party, Reagan then backed Ford because Reagan knew what a disaster Carter was going to be.

Eventhough Carter was a disaster, Reagan’s electoral college landslide was helped by the fact that Anderson challenged Carter from the left.

If you vote for and elect Hillary, what is your basis to be so confident that all of a sudden Republicans will rise up and reclaim Washington? This is the type of intellectually void reasoning that appears to be all too common with those that have such a hatred for Rudy. Its absurd to think that somehow Hillary will be better for this nation than Rudy.

The argument that somehow Hillary winning will energize the right to retake congress is also bunch of crap. What are the approval ratings for Congress right now? After the immigration fiasco, self inflicted scandals, and disgusting spending of pork, why should there be another revolution expectted to sweep the right back into power under President Hillary. If anything the left is moving closer to a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, which will leave the pro-lifers utterly screwed.

It's not going to happen. She will make things worse, take away more rights and absolutely decimate the causes of the single issue cement heads who decided in their infinite arrogance and short sightedness that the best way to advance their causes is to either not vote or vote for the opponent.

There is a darker insiduious rationale for the pro-life/values leaders to consider allowing Hillary to win: Money and fundraising. Hillary the boogiewoman president will raise a lot of cash for them.

I have my eye on the ball. The game is defeating Hillary, and avoid defeating ourselves. Rudy isn't a liberal the way Hillary is a liberal. Or stated differently, if Rudy is "liberal", then Hillary is a genuine communist.

Hillary will be hard to defeat. I think either Rudy or Romney has the best chances against her. Not sure which. But I'll take ANYONE over Hillary, even Rudy. Trashing Rudy now could be a huge mistake because the radical among us will not support him in 2008 if he wins the nomination.

Go back and read my post. Both are enemies, I consider Fruit Loop to be the most dangerous because he is a snake. He will hide and bite you when you least expect it. At least the beast is a beast all the time and you can be prepared.

The conundrum for the hair-on-fire right is going to be when Rudy swerves right if and when he wins the nomination...

Rudy was asked the question, by the way. He stipulated that he would appoint strict constructionist judges. There were no ifs, ands or buts in the answer. He may be a lot of things, but, based on his statements and positions, a liar isn't one of them.

Of course, the Hard (-headed) right will choose to disbelieve him to bolster their own argument.

121
posted on 10/20/2007 12:45:20 PM PDT
by sofaman
(Ahmadinejad: Those who attempt to rewrite history are probably planning to repeat it.)

As I have repeated a number of times on FR, even as a strong Rudy supporter, I understand and respect your doing everything possible not to have Rudy nominated in the Republican primary. I recognize that I will be unable to convince many with strong opinions to vote for Rudy. I am biding my time to get into the fray until the general election where I will do everything in my power to make sure Hillary does not get elected.

I do, however, feel that I must comment on your assessment of what would happen if Hillary became president.

The News media would be on her side full time. Distortions in the Iraq coverage will fade. They will buy her story hook, line, and sinker that she was put into this mess by Bush (this characterization would be hers and is not mine) and had no choice. Look at articles by Doug from Upland on FR showing videos of Hillary’s felonies. Is the press interested? Not at all. Consider the number of blacks that bought into the notion as Clinton as the first black president. Democratic dissention? Fat chance, not when it is time to enact socialist policies.

Now lets consider your proposition that the left will be angry about Iraq. (By the way in your premise if she is elected- it would be with full knowledge that she voted for the war. In fact, Hillary’s line already used, would be that if she knew Bush would make such a mess, she would not have voted yes.) What do you think Hillary’s actions would be - to further enrage that part of the base? She is not stupid politically. She would look to do things that will mollify these loonies.

Finally, if conservatives stayed home or went 3rd party, the fracture would be on our side. There are many of who would be hostile to those that we felt got Hillary elected. It would be hard to put a winning coalition back together.

Just some food for thought against a Hillary candidacy at all costs:

- Hillary is a corrupt politician with the press ignoring this on a widescale. If she were conservative and agreed with me 100% I would be vehemently against her because I feel so strongly about this issue. As Mark Steyn noted last night on Hannity & Colmes - one corruption would doom any candidate but multiple corruptions have no affect. The argument is that they pick out the most loony charge and classify all others with the loony charge. This works well for Democrats. By the way, notice how sensitive that she is to corruption by having Sandy Berger as her advisor. This shows amazing contempt.

- Hillary and a full Rat Congress would do irreparable harm to the country. Think of the judges that would be appointed.
Socialized medicine - a foot in the door will became a large chasm and force us into government run health care. Look at Hillary’s treatise in college and read about her advisors.

- The comments that there is no difference between Rudy and Hillary is patently absurd. As it is primary season, it is not relevant for us to engage in this at this time. I will engage in the discussion if this becomes our choice. There is no reason for you at this time to entertain voting for Rudy. Your focus should be to elect the nominee that you most want.

For now, go with your heart and passion in the Republican primary but be aware that regardless of the outcome Hillary must not become president.

As a Conservative, I believe that you have the ability to think. If Rudy becomes the nominee then, I look forward to getting into a good intelligent discussion.

The solution is simple. DO NOT NOMINATE A LIBERAL WHO IS AN ANATHEMA TO CORE, LONG-HELD, BEDROCK, TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN VALUES AND PRINCIPLES.

Wrong. The solution is to keep our heads and not allow the thought of voting for third parties, or the thought of staying home next Nov.

Anything less than accepting the parties nomination helps Hillary, and that's a fact. Trashing Rudy will incite people to defect next Nov. and it's stupid to do it.

I have *not* made up my mind who to support, or even who I think has the best chances next Nov. But I *do* believe it is stupid beyond belief to trash Rudy now when it's quite probable that he may get the nomination.

So you don't have any intelligent reasoning, only bad analogies? Think of judicial nominees, fiscal views, eduction views, health care views and foreign policy views. Look at the difference between Giuliani and Clinton on these issues and see how Giuliani would be a much better president.

You anti-Rudy types talk of how much damage Rudy will do to the pro-life cause. What about the damage Hillary would do? Face it, the only way to change the nations abortion laws is to overturn Roe v. Wade. How will electing Hillary, who will most likely get to appoint 2 or more justices, help this?

Again I ask, what makes you so confident that if Hillary is elected all of a sudden Republicans will sweep Washington? What are your facts to base this off of?

125
posted on 10/20/2007 12:49:27 PM PDT
by scarface367
(The problem is we have yet to find a cure for stupid)

I feel very sorry for for you. You have no principles. That will be the defeat of us this time.

You have to be FOR something, not just against something.

You win against this woman by providing a clear cut opposition to her.

We will need our candidate to light the fire of his own party and light the fire of those that do not like her. Whoever points out that she is a nanny state, life controlling feminist socialist will be a winner.

You do that by having adult male, sane, leadership. You lose by running someone who is actually left of her on some issues.

126
posted on 10/20/2007 12:49:47 PM PDT
by dforest
(Duncan Hunter is the best hope we have on both fronts.)

Christianity is not about inclusiveness? The hell it isn't. That's what makes this a great country! Inclusiveness! Christianity is all about Love, Forgiveness and Inclusiveness. Any suggestion that it isn't will reap a strident repsonse from this FReeper. And that, my FRiend, comes from a Jew.

You mention Hell, and yet can't admit that Christianity is entirely conditional on ONLY one thing... the blood of Jesus Christ... otherwise... you know the answer.

"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Inclusive yes, in that Jesus will take Black, White, Rich, Poor, Healthy, Weak, but only through Jesus's blood can one be forgiven, and that goes through the bottleneck of accepting the gift Jesus freely offers.

Inclusive in that Christianity accepts those that do not believe in Jesus. Nope..

Christianity is about love, but love is true love.

"Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9)

True love is not Hypocritical. True love point out wrong and points out the way correct it.

True love does forgive, but you can only forgive something that asked you to forgive. You can not forgive a sin that is not done directly to you, and to forgive means they come to you with repentive heart. If I owe you $50 dollars, you can forgive me of that dept, but JimRob can not remove that debt that I owe you, only you can. I can forgive someone that murders one of my kids, but I can not forgive someone that murders one of your kids, I am not in the position to do so. Forgiveness has in modern times come to mean things beyond what it was intended.

----------------------------------------------

Finally you say "That my FRiend, comes from a Jew"...

I value the advice of many people, including Jews... but your posts have rang only hollow on telling me how a Christian should behave. Perhaps next time you want to tell a Christian how a Christian should behave, you might consult something we hold in high regard.. The Bible.

133
posted on 10/20/2007 12:55:45 PM PDT
by LowOiL
(Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)

I agree with your sentiments, however, if we really took abortion seriously, as murder, we would all, tomorrow destroy every abortion clinic, nationwide. But, we wont.

Why? Do we choose the rule of our law over G-d's law? Is that right?

Klinton put on the court Ginsburg and Breyer. Two abortion advocates. The next Preeident will likely put on to more. We have "a chance" to end Roe VS Wade with Strict Constructionist Judges. Even then if it is overturned, it goes back to the States. There will be only, what, about 5 States that might outlaw it? That means that babies will be slaughtered for as far as the eye can see. Yet, some will be saved.

I feel very sorry for for you. You have no principles. That will be the defeat of us this time.

My principles are victory next November against Hillary. I'm not engaging in the argument pro or con of Rudy, except to fight rabid hate mongering against him. Hate mongering against Rudy now will defeat us next November if he becomes the candidate and hard core conservatives stay home.

Say you like this candidate, or that one, and leave it at that. Engaging in personal destruction against Rudy cannot help us. Even if he didn't win the nomination, we want another powerful Republican like Rudy on our side that can help whomever the nominee is.

"The split is the fault of those willing to morph the Party into something entirely unrecognizale(sp)"

Whose fault is it? Where is the leadership in the Conservative movement? Where has it been for the last 8 years? There has apparently been no coordination at all between the Conservative movemnet and the GOP! It is all willy-nilly. If Jim Robinson is the man, then he and Dobson and all the other members of the conservative movement should have been cooordinating with the GOP, grooming another Real Reagan candidate that we can embrace with vigor! I dont sense that that has occured at all. By doing nothing, we have allowed this Rudy thing to occur. Are Conservatives just bad strategizers? Were we thinking that another Reagan was going to pop out of thin air?

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