gpilcher2001 wrote:+ 1 on the the all tube preamp with cap mods! I would like to throw it out there how about a celestion vintage 30 in place of d-k-e120. I was messing around with an e and a k120 this weekend comparing it to a vintage 30. The vintage 30 has tighter bass and lower watts. It was easier to push the speaker also. The e 120 is really kindof thin sounding when you cant get the watts to it. The k works much like the vintage 30. Maybe alittle brighter. Of course the tightness could come from newer speaker. Vintage 30's are 150 new vs. 250 and up for an old jbl speaker. Kinda defeats the on a budget requirement. Anyways imho there different but close enough to get that tone. Greg...

Is the vintage 30 Alnico? I had a Celeston (ceramic I think) in my Deluxe when I first got it, it was the Fender upgraded speaker in the limited Edition HRD3's. It worked GREAT for regular amp tones at home, like blues and rhythm guitar chord voicing. I thought I really liked it a lot (at home). It sounded pretty close to my JBL speakers at low volume, but I know how misleading that can be. It did lack the high end clarity and would throw bass or loose low end into the mix, even with the bass cut off the amp (compared to JBL's).

I gigged with it sitting in with a friends band, and it worked fine with clean and OD tones. When I cut on my envelope filter it almost shot out of the amp like a bullet. It farted so bad I thought I blew it. Nothing could tame it.

The Vintage 30 may be a different animal. I guess it all depends on what you are doing with your rig, playing in a pro band, jamming with buds, playing in a bedroom, style of music, etc... I have come full circle with the Commonwealths. They sound great and respond like a JBL at these high volumes. I think they are $134-150 new and are 225 watts v's 300 (more like a K's wattage). When I threw a commonwealth into the amp, it sounded awesome. They way us Jerry heads like it. Now I have a K120 in it and it sounds remarkably similar to the commonwealth, a little brighter for the better, but hair splitting.

Of course the tightness could come from newer speaker

I think the old cones in these 30 year old speakers have us misunderstanding the actual tone of what a new JBL K/E120 sounded like for Jerry in the 70's-80's. The new cone paper has a better response across the board, I think. Especially in the "tight low mids/bass area" and the highs too. It seems the "old" paper cone has a brighter response across the board. I am not a scientist tho. Maybe that is why we hear such difference between vintage original speakers and new clones and think that's why the new clones "don't sound exactly like them". I came full circle when I reconed an E120 with an actual E120 kit and noticed its rebirth of tone tightness across all frequencies. It sounded closer to the Commonwealth after the recone than the 30 yr old cone. Although, there are small differences in everything on Earth!!! Cool stuff.

the vintage 30 is rated at 60 watts rms. They take forever to break in... I've made the mistake of selling several prior to them sounding good. Then I came across one that is 10 years old with likely a couple of hundred hours on it and it's really nice. Nothing like a JBL, but really nice.

plenty of us have factory re-coned E/K jbl's playing next to older speakers with original cones. the subtle differences of wear and demagnetization are noticeable, but a 40 year old K and new K are still much closer sounding than a K to an E.

They are ceramic. The 60 watts is what more or less my point. In a 40 watt power section they are easier to drive hard. My thoughts on the jbls is there just to big to drive hard in most gigging situations. Following the jerry way of driving things to just the edge of clipping. They are different then a jbl but so simmilar that it would make a good one to use imo. Greg...

gpilcher2001 wrote:They are ceramic. The 60 watts is what more or less my point. In a 40 watt power section they are easier to drive hard. My thoughts on the jbls is there just to big to drive hard in most gigging situations. Following the jerry way of driving things to just the edge of clipping. They are different then a jbl but so simmilar that it would make a good one to use imo. Greg...

Agreed and point well made. I've been using a pair of D123's (3" voice coil) that are more like 15-20 watt. They break up quicker and still have a lot of that big jbl tone. That's in a half power twin btw. They are also quite a bit lighter. They don't have quite the same brightness or treble focus of the 4 inch voice coils... but not a bad compromise.

gpilcher2001 wrote:They are ceramic. The 60 watts is what more or less my point. In a 40 watt power section they are easier to drive hard. My thoughts on the jbls is there just to big to drive hard in most gigging situations. Following the jerry way of driving things to just the edge of clipping. They are different then a jbl but so simmilar that it would make a good one to use imo. Greg...

Very cool to know. After having those fender issues I would have sworn off Celestons forever. I totally agree that a lower vol speaker helps get it all cookin right at small volumes. It was the darn envelope filter/Oct div that had issue with that speaker. Again Jerry would sound like jerry through almost any rig so we can use different stuff and cop it close.

+1 on the taking for ever to break in. I've been swapping my v30's out with my jbl's for a couple years now. I know they have atleast 50-60 hours on them. When i was taste testing this weekend the cone finally started moving. These dont get loose on bass and can handle the filter just fine. If you were to go that route i would suggest beating the hell out of them with your filter and octave as much as you can. Greg...

I use 2 super II's (Important in my opinion) and a fender Deluxe Reverb (reissue but affordable) I also think the waldo buffer is important I really liked how that changed my tone. The hard wood guitar makes a difference to me too, I used Maple.. here are some samples of my tone
Sugareehttp://www.deadonthetracks.com/dott6-23-12t03sg

I should add I also agree with the earlier statement that it is in the practice and study not the gear I know a guy that plays a G&L through Crate and gets a fantastick Garcia Tone Bob From Reflections uses a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and gets a Phenomenal Tone

gdrfk1990 wrote:I should add I also agree with the earlier statement that it is in the practice and study not the gear I know a guy that plays a G&L through Crate and gets a fantastick Garcia Tone Bob From Reflections uses a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and gets a Phenomenal Tone

this notion that you can sound like JG simply by having the same rig is without a doubt false. you must put in the time to get the study of Jerry's playing style down, the fingerpickin, flat pickin, scales used, approach, and ideas etc are ALL needed. this is exactly what you hear from him when he plays los lobos or elvic costellos rigs, or any rig that is not his own! you hear this also in guys like JK, Mattson, Shank, Bondy and many many others. the only difference between some of the latter is their approach to the gear side. If you listen to Shank and his rig versus JK and his, Shank is more authentic Jerry sounding everytime, WHY? because he playes with essentially almost all the same attributes in his playing style as JG, as well as approaches the gear in a like manner. JK overtime has begun to come into his own, but at one time his approach to JG's playing style was real close, but was never really close to the gear side. BUT because he had the approach to his playing style, he was labelled a JG player. many guys have that JG playing style down, and can mimic it with other gear, just as JG himself did. but for that Authentic GD Jerry tone, the gear takes it everytime! as i stated before there is a huge 90+ percentage that lies in the playing style in achieveing a convincing JG sound, but there is that last percentage in getting the gear right that puts the icing on the cake. from what i gather however is that most like to have the icing before even baking the cake.

~waldo

Disclaimer: I get paid to make, modify or build things for those that seek what i may be able to provide.

Thanks Waldo, I've been baking this cake for some time now and was wondering what that icing would taste like . Before considering throwing together a bunch of shit I had laying around, I've been playing a 335 style thru an old peavey bandit and getting some killer tones, but just looking for a little something else.

I justscored a McIntosh MC2100 on eBay for $335 it's a little rusty and the nameplate is gone but it works perfect and sounds more than awesome. I scored a Bag End 2x12 cab for $200. If you're not hung up on looks the. You can assemble a top quality rig for a reasonable price.

+1 on the JBL speaker. Just plugged mine in for the first time; I was getting close with my Vintage 30, which I have loved and gigged with 15 years and will never part with. But now I am CLOSER. Big difference in the authenticity.

I am using a Dumble clone made by a friend on the clean channel, and also have an Hughes and Kettner head I scored for cheap after everyone started talking about JK's Blues Machine preamp. Both sound significantly more Jerryish through the JBL E120.

i am sure Zach can nail the playing style on any rig, he without a doubt has the chops. but when he is behind that rig it sounds EXACTY as it should!

sure you can get this rig in budget form, but it may take time to acquire all the pieces. however, it is well worth the wait/weight!

~waldo

Agreed. I think Zach gets among the very best Jerry tone I've heard. Maybe he has a special secret sauce for me (us)!

Interesting that it looks like the JBL's aren't miked, so it's all in the room and what's coming through the vocal mics. He has to be playing really loud. Seems to give it that extra "room" vibe that (I think) helps to make Jerry's 80s JGB tone seem even more unique. Anyway, Zach has got it down!