What Girls & Guys Said

1. Why was it so awful when the Southern States seceded in 1860-61 but it's not so awful when Californians want to do it?

2. I suspect that the radical/brain dead left in LA and San Francisco are the driving force behind this and the rest of the state is embarrassed about their fellow Californians. So, let's allow LA and SF to secede and hold on to the rest of the state.

3. Since these people feel so strongly about illegal immigrants, they won't mind if we deliver all of them to the US/Los Angeles border, will they?

I don't really have a dog in this fight, not being American. However...

Ultimately, places belong to the people who live there. If they want to leave so badly, let them go. Provided that 1) The rest of the country agrees, and 2) Places within California that wish to remain within the United States are allowed to do so.

Now we are all told that California would be the world's sixth largest economy etc, were it an independent country, but I suspect that it would really only be a few places within California that actually would vote to secede, and that this would probably not be viable.

In the end, California has clearly developed a culture that is not especially compatible with places elsewhere in the United States, and a secession referendum would probably make them face some hard choices. Is LGBT etc more important to them, than the ability to move across the country for work, for example?

There's an issue with the rest of the country agreeing. The rest of the country may be aware of the economical boost that said region provides and thus would never willingly let them go, no matter how those people, in particular, may want it.

Although the United States has looked rather dimly on the idea of secession since the 1860s at least - that whole civil war thing, don't ya know - in the case of California the country might be inclined to make an exception. As the late columnist Mike Royko put it, "There is no point putting a fence around California because even if you did everyone in there would just flap their arms and fly out."

From "sanctuary statehood" - where the state government is seeking to exempt itself from Federal law - to the right to homelessness to feces and illegal drugs in the streets, seldom has one state tried so hard to make the country reconsider if admitting it was a good idea. Suffice to say, there is nothing that says the United States cannot un-do, as we have done in the past, bad ideas.

Indeed, a thought: Relations with America's southern neighbor Mexico have been strained from time to time. Not least during the Mexican War of 1846-1848, at the end of which, as part of the peace settlement, California's status as American territory was affirmed. (The war was fought largely over Texas, but much of the rest of the southwest - including much of California - was also in dispute.)

It is time to make amends for past offenses. It is well past time to "make nice" with our southern neighbors and as a good will gesture offer them California. Indeed, we can include northern California as a sort of reparation and thus give Mexico the whole thing, lock, stock and barrel.

It is true, after the Spanish-American War, Mr. Dooley said, "Spain was our friend until she rounded on us and gave us the Philippines." So let's reverse things with Mexico. At the very least, relations between the U. S. and Mexico may end up no worse off than they are now. At most, Mexico would learn the truth of that old maxim - "Be careful what you wish for. You may get it."

1. The US owns the military bases and owes CA nothing for the continued use of that property AND the ground and air ranges the military currently operates.

2. LEGAL CA residents have 18 months to either MOVE out of the state or remain. After 18 months, whatever their decision they made is final. Any moves to or from CA require a Visa into and out of the US. People moving TO CA will need to file with the State Department they're not legally in the US.

3. Trade between the US and CA is free and open - no tariffs.

4. We're building a HUGE wall around CA to keep them from illegally entering the US. Specific entry and exit points will be THE only way to enter and exit CA. All flights to and from CA require a passport and processing through Customs at the air terminal.

There may be more requirements, however, I would support CA leaving the US. All their Representatives and 2 Senators get to permanently vacate their offices in Washington D. C.. As far as I'm concerned, good. Good riddance! Don't go away mad, just go away!

Before the U. S. Civil War/War between States, it was common-knowledge that the U. S. was a Union (like the E. U. is a Union) with member-states retaining the right to exit (like the U. K. does from the E. U.). After the war, this common-sense seems to have disappeared, thanks to the negative-connotation linked to the Confederacy.

If that's how the Founders intended it, then I'd have to agree in California's case.

The only state in the US that is capable of sustaining itself as its own country is Texas, and even that assumption goes with believing that it would continue to trade with the US as if nothing happened, which is unrealistic to say the least. California *could* be in the same boat if they hadn't spent the last two decades crippling themselves as a socialist experiment crippled by idiotic government programs, which aren't going to fix themselves overnight, so an independent California would pretty much become an instant humanitarian crisis as it collapses within months of independence.

An independent California would also pose a big problem for mainly northern California since there's already increasingly serious talks about splitting it into another state in order to get away from the aforementioned stupidity. I doubt anyone up there would want to be dragged down by the flaming turd that would be the Free Democratic People's Republic of California.

California won't succeed, it can't survive on it's own. If California is on it's own that would mean the government would come in and take out all government employee's, all soldiers, all military assets and any assets belonging to the United States Government.

That also means no guarded border and no government funding of any kind and no manpower or support if and when a natural disaster occurred.

If they succeed then California's life line is gone and it'll die, simple as that, they're incapable of surviving on their own especially with the massive money drain that comes from their bullshit social programs and other wastes of money and resources. If anything them succeeding will free up a lot of money that's otherwise being wasted on the state.

Absolutely, I have no issue with California quarantining itself from the rest of the country. I mean I have no idea how much money that would cost us because they are currently going through economic collapse so they will immediately demand we take them back, plus all their poor will flood our country (I mean millions are already fleeing from California's idiotic policies that have decimated business and their infrastructure) so we would now have to deal with illegals from California etc. But I'm all for it, let the egotistical elitist assholes quarantine themselves from us, worse case scenario we do better because of it, best case scenario California gets its shit together and stops running itself into the ground (fat chance of that happening) and we both do better. Either way I don't see a downside.

Well it will happen eventually. I was having a discussion with some classmates. I said the demographic change of california is inevitable, it will become mostly Latino, same with Texas and the rest of the southwest. and when that happens, they will begin taking positions of government, creating new legislation, and changing the culture of the region.

So its a matter of when and how. The union will break up eventually and it will be because demographics.

I support it 100%. maybe it would wake up all the Americans in those regions to begin thinking of themselves as Americans.

Hell no! California needs Federal money to exist. California almost went bankrupt a could of times and had to shut down all non essential government functions. If all the illegals paid their fair share of taxes, license fees, and other things that raise income for California we wouldn't be in such a mess. There was once talk of making Southern and Northern California separate states because Southern Cali was dragging down the rest of the state. I don't thin any state can afford to leave the union and make it on their own. They need those Federal highway taxes for road upkeep and bridge/overpass upkeep. Plus if a disaster occurred you can kiss help from the Federal Government good bye along with your ass. I'll vote for California to secede when elephants fly.

Most states are in agreement with federal law.. Cali seems to detest this however.. An most should.. We're losing all our rights an the constitution seems to be forgotten or overwritten and its sad... Privacy is almost abolished and were slowly becoming ignorant to actual law that police take advantage of it and it's depressing... Military oath to defend the country and constitution against all enemies foreign an domestic yet police do as they please and were lacking knowledge that lets them do so...

By Federal law I expect you mean Trump administration policy changes? Most states maybe, but not most Americans. Trump lost by three million votes.

Anonymous

2 d

Lol. Yeah. Let's let a genuine "donor state" go. All the conservatives griping about liberal policies in California, but California gets less money back in federal funds than it pays -- California is paying for other states, even conservative ones, because they pay more in federal taxes than they get back!

No, I'm not in favor of it. California could probably run as it's own country with its population, tourist industry, Silicon Valley and Hollywood. The benefit of letting them secede might actually be more of their benefit than for the U. S. on the whole.

Yes, secession is within a state's rights. The United States was not designed or created as a unified country, but as a union of independent countries much like the European Union.I also support California leaving the union because... good riddance lol

Yes, if all those Democrat voting libtards could be fenced in there.California could be used as a place of exile for the libtards in the other states.The best part would be that within five years California would be Venezeula 2.0, which would allow patriots to sit on the eastern side of the border to enjoy the spectacle of starving Socialists being fried on the electrified fence... in the manner of a fly on a bug zapper.

I remember this. The idea seems to have vanished. I would support it because it's too democratic and poor with the exception of Hollywood. If you read centrist or conservative news then you know about the homelessness crisis, poop on San Francisco streets, and other problems. Would be nice to get rid of that state. Let it be its own country.

Yes that state is now trash. We'll no longer need to send funds to fight theyre god damn fires we can take in the true americans who still live in that state and funnel all illegals and false sanctuary claims to the country of california because they are all inclusive.

I pray to God for this everyday so we can be rid of California. Maybe have an agreement to where they can be their own nation but allow Americans to visit without a passport. That way we can visit easily but not worry about their votes affecting what happens to the rest of the country.

A lot of the success of those big companies succeeding in California is dependent on the US market. I would not be surprised to see headquarters and jobs flow out of California if they succeeded. Companies care more about the US market and not the California market. They want to be US companies and not Californian.

California isn't leaving though. I'm a life long Californian and I don't support it.

Im sorry to hear you live there. Maybe there's a way to implement home placement tranfer programs for true americans such as yourself but these people fighting for it are too far gone and they have infected your state. Its time to cut off the losses and let them go.

@Creepazoid I don't believe the majority of us would support leaving. The people here are generally good people. They just are often a bit wacky politically. A lot of that is because of the extreme divisiveness we have about what are really fairly small differences.

They would fail as an independent country and create instability in our sphere of influence. There would likely be civil war within the state itself. We would have to intervene and occupy them so what’s the fucking point of letting a mess of a state go into a tailspin?

GOD YES!!! Let them secede so the United States can invade set up Martial law kick out all the illegals and problem causing liberals to Mexico and socialist countries never give them statehood again and tax the crap out of them. Or the United States could just do nothing and watch a country like China take over and make them including their children make products in sweatshops for slave wadges.

I do. I fully support any state wanting to secede. I just hope they thought about all the possible negative consequences with a plan in mind. Other than that, I don’t see why anyone would care so much.

I think we should continue that wall up north between CA and AZ to Needles, then north-west along NV about half way then turn due west at South Lake Tahoe to the ocean and then cut the aqueduct from the Colorado River due to it is killing of a protected mosquito. Next, kick their reps asses out of DC then sit back and watch liberalism consume itself.

@cipher42 Actually you have the 4th.Your economy without the US support would likely drop to 3rd world, possible 4th world standards within the first 48 hours of leaving the republic, and after time would recover to be at best the 19th overall. You would be fine, eventually, but likely end up joining as part of Canada. But no one cares. Leave.

By GDP (the standard measure of economic size) we have by far the largest. You're referencing a study that looked at various factors combined, like economic growth and "business environment", not pure size of economy.

@cipher42 Actually California has the fifth largest economy (it was the fourth largest when it was a republican state) and its also got the highest rates of poverty per capita and largets wealth disparity of any state. Currently they are unable to maintain basic infrastructure hence all the fecal matter on the streets and a disturbing resurgence of diseases that have not affected modern society in over a century. Further more its losing businesses the only exception to this being the tech sector as they where established their (and its only a matter of time before they leave as well as the only reason they started in silicon valley, as its known, is because the land was cheap their, now taxes are so absurdly high that no start up has any real reason to be their as land is far cheaper elsewhere in the US). What took a company I believe it was ten years to build in California took only a year to build and get up and running in Arizona (I believe it was a recycling plant). In short you claim its going to do just fine but your forgetting that the primary wealth it receives is from tech giants and Hollywood and that's it. I mean their is farming but thanks to LA voting for water to be redistributed to them and for them to be prioritized many of the farming regions experienced wide spread droughts because again, poor policies and elitism. So you are the poorest state (due to taxes and living expenses) with the highest wealth disparity that is currently losing business after business to places like Arizona and texas, with diseases, like the bubonic plague, showing up in your cities when these things where pretty much unheard of once we had modern sanitation (so for the past 150 years or so) as well as huge crime issues and homeless issues (not to mention rampant corruption issues).

@cipher42 So while I agree that you guys should absolutely secede from the Union, I am going to have to say the data shows the exact opposite outcome of what you suggest (plus the whole bankruptcy thing (118.7 billion dollars in debt, 785.72 billion in unfunded retirement benefits and liabilities, the many different California cities that have become insolvent and bankrupt, its huge dependendence on Federal money (they get 99 cents per dollar given to the government so nearly an even exchange so the federal government is not going to lose out that much in taxes compared to California etc.).

@hellionthesagereborn I literally *just* addressed this. California has by far the largest economy by GDP, which is the standard measure of economy size. When California is ranked 4th or 5th economically, that's usually by measures that aren't just GDP. It's a fair argument that how BIG an economy is doesn't necessarily correlate to how GOOD it is, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm just saying that California has the BIGGEST economy by the standard measure, and no matter how much you don't want that to be true, it is.

@cipher42 You do realize that about ten years or so ago four hospitals went bankrupt in California due to illegals overflooding your state. Four hospitals which is a lot. Then there's over 27,000 people currently living in tents in Los Angeles alone. And over 1000-5000 living in cars in parking lots that the city is footing the bill for. So don't sit there and tell me California is all great when it's a hellhole. At one time I thought of moving there but from everything I been seeing all the horror stories about how much homelessness there is out there I rather not. Plus the amount of stupid laws you have in California. You realize that if a waiter or waitress gives a customer a straw that waiter or waitress will spend 6 months in jail and pay over a $1000 fine. Granted California is trying to reduce the plastic problem but those morons are going about it all the wrong way. Personally I don't like drinking out of public glasses in restaurants I find it skeevy and disgusting regardless if they been through a dishwasher because you never know who drank out of it last. And I'm not sure if you're aware of this but certain parts of inner cities in southern california have been quarentined off due to feces smell. Homeless people taking a dump in certain parts of the inner cities back alleys making entire areas smell so bad and toxic cities have to block those areas off. I for one wouldn't miss California if it seceded the union

@Rob171977 Can you cite your sources? The only thing I can find info on is the drinking straw law- which isn't actually the way you claim it is (making me doubt your other claims). First, the $1000 fine is Santa Barbara specific, not a California thing. The California law prevents FULL SERVICE (not fast food/food stand/cafe) places from providing PLASTIC (paper or other is okay) straws UNLESS REQUESTED, and the fines for non-compliance are up to $25 per day and $300 annually.

@cipher42 its called getting off your ass and do a google or yahoo or bing or duck duck go search. you're a big girl who's old enough to use the computer and browse the internet obviously so i'm gonna tell you exactly what I tell pc nerd gamers or whackjob conspiracy nut cases GET OFF YOUR ASS AND GO FIND THE SOURCES YOURSELF

@Rob171977 You make the claim, you provide the proof. You're a big boy, surely you've at least graduated high school. When you wrote essays, did you just not cite things and tell the teacher to get off their ass and do the research themself? I hope the fuck not.

Anyways, I did actually try to find wtf you're talking about, which is why I was able to tell you how bullshit your claim about the straw ban was. The fact that I couldn't find any info on the other claims you made makes me think that they're just as bullshit as the straw one. Prove me wrong?

@cipher42 and the fact that you're on here talking like either a conspiracy whackjob or a pc fucking nerd gamer makes me think you're really a fucking guy hiding behind a fake fucking screen name pretending to be a woman SO FUCK OFF

@cipher42 Quit being so fucking uptight and so full of yourself and get off your ass and spend more than 5 or 10 minutes and do some actual fucking research. Don't expect people to spoon feed you information all the time. this is the REAL WORLD not some bullshit high school crap that you refer to. Get over yourself be a big girl like i said put your big girl panties on and do some actual research for quite a while instead of whine bitch and complain unless you really are a guy like i figure you are in my previous reply to you and if you are then FUCK OFF

@Rob171977 Okay, seems that you don't actually have any research backing you up, so you think insulting people will cover that up. Really though, did you graduate high school? If so, how? Certainly not by insulting your teachers when they asked you to cite your sources...

@Rob171977 Homeless people collect in the Pacific coastal cities because it's possible to live unsheltered without freezing to death or dying of heat stroke. You might argue that Pacific coastal cities are too accommodating.

@cipher42 I also pointed out that they receive substantially more money from the government that shows that while they still give more then they take, that number is not by much and if you factor in cost of living and everything else which is a FAR more accurate measure, California is one of the poorest states. Saying that the average person makes say 20 an hour is utterly meaningless if they are paying 50% of that in taxes and their cost of living is twice as high leaving them functionally at 5 dollars an hour. That's essentially what California is. Again, as I also pointed out, your basically saying GDP and pretending like that is an even distribution of wealth when in fact it is not even remotely the case. The vast majority of people are poor (as previously explained), and only the tech industry and Hollywood actually produce that substantial revenue your basing that GDP on. Again, its an average so when you place the likes of say Jeff Bezos and average his income with that of a homeless person, sure that homeless person is going to look like he is making a good amount of money, he won't be but the numbers will suggest that. This is California in a nut shell and as I pointed out with California hemorrhaging businesses and experiencing a, as they call it, brain drain (all those who can leave are leaving. This means that the more skilled people are leaving for other states like Oregon and Texas leaving behind the poorer and less skilled people and as things worsen this will only be exacerbated causing an ever worsening scenario (same thing happened in Venezuela)).

@cipher42 So arguing that its "big" which is relative and fluctuates (again, it use to be bigger then it is now), that's a meaningless statement. Techincally China has a substantially bigger economy but what does that even mean? People are not better off their then in the US (or most other nations for that matter?) so what does a bigger economy even mean? The answer is nothing. I never argued that they didn't have a big economy, I pointed out, rightly, that its irrelevant as its depend on really just two industries, industries that are only their because they have been grandfathered in (and we are seeing a shift away to other regions for these industries (Washington is increasing its tech industry and Hollywood is slowly loosing out to other areas (Canada and New Zealend for example, are becoming more popular locations to film shows and movies)). So again, what does that argument even mean?

@hellionthesagereborn "I never argued that they didn't have a big economy," you tried to correct my (true) statement that CA has the largest economy of any state with a (false, or off topic if u were talking about world economies) statement that it has the fifth largest.

That's literally the only argument I've made and the only argument I'm interested in making. I've made it, I was correct in making it, you were incorrect in saying it wasn't true. Thats all, I'm done here, bye.

@cipher42 It does have the fifth largest economy, that's not going off topic, it was stated it was fourth and that was not correct so I pointed out its fifth because again, it is. If we are going off of largest in the United states it would be fifth if we count district of Columbia or fourth if we exclude it (going off of your estimate of GDP being an indicator of size of economy (based upon the lists that I can find). So that was not off topic that was a correction of a misstatement. It also would still place it as an incredibly large economy which I never suggested, again, that it wasn't. So I'm not sure what your trying to argue as again, I never suggested it was a small economy, I argued that basing it off of GDP is foolish and meaningless as it doesn't take into account everything else. en.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capitaAs for your "argument" what purpose does it serve if your ignoring everything else? You said that California would be fine, but then after I pointed out all the serious issues its currently facing (and with everything indicating its only going to get worse) your now arguing the only argument your trying to make is that it has a large economy? Which one is it, does it have a large economy that doesn't matter or does it have a functional economy and it will be fine? Those are two very different things.

I have friends in the mid-west who are hoping this happens but with the proviso that there is a physical barrier between California and the states that abut it. They even went as far as to suggest that Washington state goes with California at the same time as they see both states a a millstone affecting the rest of the union, one friend actually said that if the big expected earthquake hit and California slid lock stock and barrel into the Pacific they would not see it as any great loss.

No your talking about taking away one of the biggest us ports and a lot of the usa most valued companies you maby steal one aircraft carrier and 300ish planes plus a few thousand army soldiers but your no way your going to outgun the usa army without serious support from China or Russia

I don't think that California is holding the US back, but that it's the other way around. Although California is our largest economy, but it is also the biggest money drain. From their bullshit social programs, anarchy like "demonstrations" , and also large amount of illegal immigrants that cheat the system, California is far from being able to sustain themselves for an extended period of time without the rest of the country keeping them in line.

I support it splitting, but at least letting the State that involves Central California staying as a State. Also, we’d get to call ourselves the NCR which is pretty cool too.

0|3

0|0

Anonymous

1 d

Yeah we don't need them anyway. They're a sanctuary state who panders against the best interest of its people and all the middle class and poor Americans hate it while the rich people hide behind their pearly gates

0|2

0|0

Anonymous

1 d

This is going to go totally fine and definitely won't blow up in their face when they implement all the shit they otherwise would be able to as a part of the US.

If California, Oregon, and Washington could secede they probably would be for it. Or maybe the deep South could join with the Midwest and form a new country. They could name it Jesusland or something. The rest of us wouldn't miss it.

If it is what Californias want to do, yes. All states retain right to withdraw from the union.

0|2

0|0

Anonymous

7 h

Oh absolutely they have already turned chunks of their country in to a third world shit hole thanks to the dems in power.. They are an embarrassment to the USA.. Let them leave, let the government cut them off, and completely disconnect the internet from them... Let them suffer and die.

Sure we do, especially money draining illegals. California has been close to bankruptcy a couple of times, once when Arnold Swartzenegger was governor. He found out it wasn't another one of his movies.

They would be fine. They could cut down the taxes they send to DC by half or more because they wouldn't be stupid enough to have an $80 billion defense budget (California's per capita share of the US military budget). They could defend themselves for about 1/4 of that. The extra $60 billion could take care of a lot of Californians.