Deputies knock on wrong door

This is a discussion on Deputies knock on wrong door within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; "The bottom line is you point a gun at a Deputy Sherrif or Police Officer,you're gonna get shot"....

This is sad on so many levels. For Victim and his family and friends. For the LEOs for being in the position of having to fire.

I believe the main fault are the LEOs. Didn't say they were LEOs....late at night....wrong address.

I can't blame the dead guy. He has a right to defend himself against late night intruders. Maybe he should have put a newspaper or towel over it, so the "shock" of seeing a weapon when the LEOs didn't expect one would spur them into over reacting like they did and killed this man who was doing nothing more than answering the door using a tool for self defense.

A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
Susan B. Anthony
A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
Robert Heinlein

"The bottom line is you point a gun at a Deputy Sherrif or Police Officer,you're gonna get shot".

If you were to point a gun at any member of this forum you could probably say the same thing might happen. That in no way proves who was in the right. Saying that you will lose does not fix the problem.

"The bottom line is you point a gun at a Deputy Sherrif or Police Officer,you're gonna get shot".

It don't know why that makes perfect sense to me, and others struggle with that concept.

That truly is the bottom line. You can be right all you want, but you'll still be dead (or even worse, kill two cops that were just trying to do their job, albeit poorly). Me, I'd rather live to chew his butt after he finally realizes that he and his department didn't do their homework and barged into the wrong home.

It don't know why that makes perfect sense to me, and others struggle with that concept.

That truly is the bottom line. You can be right all you want, but you'll still be dead. Me, I'd rather live to chew his butt after he finally realizes that he and his department didn't do their homework and barged into the wrong home.

Sometimes a situation becomes "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Not a happy ending for the one that opened the door. And yes this one brings up many "should have done this", shouldn't have done that" scenarios. Sadly something like this will happen again.

The bad news......... there is no one right answer to such a situation. Not one that will come out alright for both parties.

Last edited by Crowman; July 17th, 2012 at 02:56 PM.
Reason: Added content

But since I would have asked that they identify themselves prior to opening the door, possibly phoned 911 to verify, and certainly not have pointed a gun at them, I stand a much greater chance of surviving a similar fiasco.

I depend on others a little as possible. In fact, I naturally assume that the world around me is somewhere between incompetent screw-ups and homicidal maniacs.

The problem is that the Deputy's, believing that they were at the right address, there to arrest a felon that was considered dangerous, opens the door with a gun in his hand.

Within less than a second, their heart rates started screaming,they started sweating,they got tunnel vision on the man with the gun that had their full concentration and they shot probably as soon as they cleared leather or brought up the gun to bear. Shots were fired, and they probably were pretty sure it was a justified shoot.

I can imagine the sick feeling they got in their gut when they found out that they were are the wrong address. They'll go home with a few days of paid leave because it is dept. procedure as Investigators investigate and try to recreate the scene, and they will hash and rehash every detail that they can. The actions of the Deputy's will analyzed for days, from every person from the Sheriff on down to the deceased guys neighbors.

They will use every resource at their disposal and take days to determine what happened...all because of a decision by the Deputies which probably took from 1 to 2 seconds to make.

And contrary to popular belief, I do not know of one single officer that wants to shoot someone. On the contrary, some of them can be too slow to shoot when they need to and die as a result.

So now their lives have been forever changed and they will be second guessed by armchair commandos and Internet specialists for the rest of their lives.

As for the family, it will be far from over. First of all, they will never get over the fact that they lost a loved one. They will be hounded for years by lawyers looking to make a buck, by their neighbors and friends insisting that they sue, and every time they see a car from the Sheriff Office they will be reminded of the tragedy that took place in their lives. The whole town will lose confidence in their S.O. and it will make the job harder for every officer there for years to come.

It truly is a tragedy, a dark stain on everyone involved that will never go away.

Bad situation all around. Solution? Who knows. I would want to know HOW the wrong address info was given out. And WHO was responsible for that info. There needs to be some accountability there. Also, there needs to be some accountability on the LEO who shot the man. Threat? Etc. And how about identifying yourself as LE? And some have suggested that a homeowner tell the supposed LE that they are calling dispatch to confirm. Well let's see, how many LE officers are going to wait for that--I mean, IF the LE team BELIEVES they are at the CORRECT address, are they going to let the BG have time to 'arm up' or flee? I doubt it, they would probably just bust in. And IF it is BG's posing as police, do you think they're going to give you time to call dispatch before busting your door down? I just think that LE, who will be coming with a deadly force option, bears more responsibility to be at the CORRECT place. An innocent man is DEAD because someone on the force couldn't read numbers correctly. I won't answer my door at all, unless I know the person who is ringing the bell, and then I have a weapon on me. And I surely wouldn't open the door to strangers, LE or otherwise, at 1:30.

Apparently the deputies did not know they were at the wrong address. And since noone here was actually there, is it too far fetched to believe that the man may have aggressively displayed the firearm? And if you were in the shoes of the deputies, acting upon information you believed to be correct, and were met at the door with a firearm welding man, whom you believed according to your info to be the subjective of your search, wouldn't you fire?

As much as I hear people here on this forum talk of aggressively " protecting the lives of myself and my family" I find it hard to believe that.

And how many here formed an opinion so quickly on the Zimmerman shooting so quickly in it's early stages? Mind boggling stuff here.

Which is exactly why I posted this earlier.

The person who sent them to the wrong address has no culpability? The person who might have made a false report leading to the encounter has no responsibility? Yes the officers killed an innocent person. But you have to look at everything that led up to that final moment when the life was taken.

Michael

Addressing only the final part of the of the problem will in no way prevent future incidents. The shooting was not the cause of the problem. It was the result. Unless we look at what led up to it we will never be able to prevent it from happening again.

If I received that knock, I would not open the door unless I was sure it was LE. Even if I had to call dispatch first to verify it. I would tell the officer thru the door what I was doing and why I was delaying.

This sounds good, BUT like I've already said: IF the LE believe they are at the CORRECT address, do you really think that they are going to give the BG time to call dispatch AKA 'arm up' or flee? In theory this may work, but in practice, I believe the LE are coming in!

And contrary to popular belief, I do not know of one single officer that wants to shoot someone. On the contrary, some of them can be too slow to shoot when they need to and die as a result.

I am not saying I agree with the way this was handled. I think that both sides screwed up, and that the county is more culpable, but, you make a good point about hesitation.

Deputy Dinkheller was shot and killed because he shouted for his attacker to drop his gun for several seconds (allowing the BG to actually retrieve and load his gun, and point it at him, before engaging). The BG had a rifle, Deputy Dinkheller did not, and he was killed, largely because he did not engage sooner.

This sounds good, BUT like I've already said: IF the LE believe they are at the CORRECT address, do you really think that they are going to give the BG time to call dispatch AKA 'arm up' or flee? In theory this may work, but in practice, I believe the LE are coming in!

Being an LE, I disagree. However, since you keep quoting and picking apart everything I say, even though I am the first and only one to offer a reasonable solution to prevent this in the future, why don't you give us a better tangible solution?