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Nobody is perfect Derek and I am surely not saying that I am perfect in that post...I am only saying that it is a teacher's responsibility not only to teach steps and sequences but also to teach his/her students how they can work with each other, how they can cooperate to create something beautiful on the dance floor, how not to get lost in the technical frustrations of the dance but to find a way to listen to the other person and make it work. Also, how to be respectful in and out of class because the truth is we all get carried away by our very stressful lives, that we forget sometimes that dancing is supposed to be a fun, social activity and not a competition and especially not a competition with our partner..!
Also, as I said in the comment above most people want to help when the give feedback...it is just that sometimes they might sound hurtful to us because either the delivery is wrong or we don't know how to hear it...And for me it is a teacher's responsibility to change that, especially in a guided practica! This way yes you will be learning new sequences but at the same time you will be feeling good, and you won't feel attacked every time you go to a practica..!

Yes it is interesting and my suggestion is - to the extent that participants at least stop fighting with/ blaming each other. If possible instructors could moderate so the participants start even to communicate with each other about the learning issues.

(What is the difference between a forum and a workshop/practica. How come that moderation/facilitation is accepted here but not in the learning environment?)

Active Member

An interesting question is also, to what extent class and practica attendees are really able to learn.
Because at grass roots level the teacher tells adults they a not able to walk and to embrace!
And one can not really learn if one has to be confident that one has learned it already.
I think there are solid blockers to avoid awkward and distressing situations!

Best to see is that avoidance behaviour at the end of a workshop.
It's obvious that the teacher should film the attendees so that they can see what they really do.
But to the attendees it is much more convinient to film the teacher in his more or less perfect execution.
Despite that the teacher could easyly provide such a clip otherwise and the time is wasted.

Same way at a practica a camera record could allow participants to see their dance in close time shift on a monitor.
Do you feel well with that imagination?

Member

It surely is a fine line, because people go to practicas to practise but also to have fun and enjoy themselves..!
I always felt uncomfortable, when I sort of knew I had to intervene but at the same time I didn't really know how to, and when, and what to say......until:
We had a small practica one evening and the people there, were all partners in life as well as in Tango. So you know...you take more lightly in these because as a third party you are thinking: " They are a couple, they probably have little fights all the time..so I didn't do anything when they were stopping, chatting, a bit of nagging from the follower, some frustration from the leader. By the way, the leader though a beginner, he was doing very well, he was comfortable with the posture, he was picking up the moves easily, he had a confident walk, and he was developing good musicality...
So this, start and stop was going on for some time, so I thought I should suggest to the group to change partners, to get a feel of how it is to do the moves with a different partner, plus a feel of how a milonga would be. So they get into, all is rolling well, they are all having fun, so they did more than one song and when they decide to change back, that follower says from the other end of the room:
"He is so much better than you, you should ask him how he does it!!!"....
Needless to say he never came back..!
And it really is such a pity because he was doing very well..!
And why? Because I felt uncomfortable to do my job...so the next time something similar happened to a different couple, before we reached that point of distress...I went to the couple and said: is there is something challenging you that I can help you with? And it turned out that the leader though he was trying to help with his comments, he was being a bit aggressive without realizing it, which made his partner almost "Tango-hate him"...so problem solved before another big BANG!
I don't know this is just my experience with it, but I think that there is a responsibility on the teacher at least at a certain level.....

Active Member

Quite awkward.
Once my class mate danced with the guest instructor and stated afterwards: "Wow - he leads twice as good as you!"
I (half a year tango experience) responded: "He's the BsAs Mundial Escenario Vice Champion of the last year. If I'm half as good as he ... I'll never ever attend a class!"

Well-Known Member

Of course it was an untactful and needless remark.
On the other hand, was that a good reason to quit?

There is always someone who does it better than me. When I begin, nearly everyone is. Why would it be otherwise, for what reason? Because I am so super special, I just cannot be worse than anyone at any given moment?
At any point, no matter how hard I try, someone still will be doing it better than me. If not for anything else, for a mere fact that "better" or "worse" is also subjective, and depends on who the judge is.
We will always be worse than some for some. How is that the end of the world?
It is not a reason to quit. It might, however, be enough reason to quit dancing/practicing with a partner who allows to say such things in your face, and find someone more positive and friendly.

Well-Known Member

A person who is criticizing you seldom has your interest at heart, and very seldom is good him(her) self at what he/she is criticizing you for. Because if he/she really has got good at it, he/she would know what it takes (a lot!), and would be much more patient and forgiving to those who are still on that journey.
So, more often than not the criticizing person is just being an a-hole taking his/her own weakness out on you.
So, when the negativity starts, the best way of dealing with it -- not to take it personally, just say "not interested", and step away.
I find it much more effective cultivating that kind of attitude in students than monitoring all their interactions in class or a practica.

Well-Known Member

Also, I am only talking about unwelcome critique here. Not all feedback is always unwelcome, and even the negative feedback may be taken with a gratitude and used to one's advantage when it comes from a right person at the right moment.

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It's not about that someone is better than me. It's not how and in which situation I can accept critique or feedback.

If I cant't fix a well founded complaint in a reasonable timeframe, the fascination is gone.
Similary I can't enjoy it to dance with a partner who shows that she would preferably dance with another person.

But believe me, in times of men shortage - I didn't experience other - most tangueras carefully avoid such situations.

Well-Known Member

It's not about that someone is better than me. It's not how and in which situation I can accept critique or feedback.

If I cant't fix a well founded complaint in a reasonable timeframe, the fascination is gone.
Similary I can't enjoy it to dance with a partner who shows that she would preferably dance with another person.

But believe me, in times of men shortage - I didn't experience other - most tangueras carefully avoid such situations.

I meant the specific example, but I agree with you on what you say.
Moreover, between a person who likes to dance with a guy and a person who is delighted to dance with him, there is no contest, he will go for the latter first. So, if I want him to dance with me often, I better be delighted. Set aside the critique and such.

Member

I fully agree with all of the above in one way or the other..haha..meaning for me too this is not a reason to quit because there is always going to be someone better, so why quit and not try harder...
On the other I can understand that he probably felt very ashamed...and most probably like a loser....so he decided right at that moment that it is not worth it..you know...which is sad because things were not like that but at all..!!! And I think Lilly_of_the_valley put it in a great way right above: "If I want him to dance with me often, I better be delighted. Set aside critique and such". Especially in the beginning--where nobody really knows how this dance works really--so both partners can feel like they are enjoying doing this together, and not that one is a burden or is always messing up or sth....

Active Member

A bit ironic:
A relevant part of the life partners will feel as a winner if they can cancel it at last.
And even every loser wins the chance to take a hobby with which he feels better.

It's a very good approach if an instructor helps everybody to feel as comfortable as possible and see positive aspects.
As a simple observer I definitely I see people where I think the have no real chance to dance well, not in this life.
But at the end I don't know what their motivation is and what they are looking for.
May be the stumbling beginner with a new lady in every repeated entry class likes just that...