why do we as a people even tolerate religion?

Circumcision aside, that's an interesting question. It's uniquely suited for this ATS forum because over the years I have noticed that whenever this
type of question arises, dozens of atheists pile on and badmouth religion. Every single time.

Religion is a personal thing today but it wasn't always so. Many parts of the world still have state religions. Religion served many functions that
today are provided by government in our society. Schools, orphanages, legal system etc. It's hard to say whether society was or wasn't better off
for this. Even in the US churches still do some of this.

The usual response to this is what about the wars though. I don't think people really fight over religion. More like power struggles between two
groups (cultures) that use religion as a differentiator.

Really, the hostility toward religion in general is unjustified. Even if you don't believe in God you probably still subscribe to the ethics. This
whole "freedom from religion" thing impinges upon the rights and freedoms of those that don't feel that way. I believe that atheism should be
considered as a religion in itself and not be given weight over other beliefs.

Everyone practices a religion of one sort or another. Even an atheist has a religion - it's the religion of disbelief. Religion is merely a personal
philosophy. The problem arises when it becomes political and dictatorial i.e. "It's my way or the highway".
Unfortunately, throughout history religions have been infested with fraud and deceit. Creationists are a prime example - a cult of personalities who
prey on the lame, lazy and the crazy. Remember Jonestown?

People are entitled to their beliefs as long as they're not forced on anyone else.

Because people are afraid that there's nothing else after this life. They try to validate their existence with these fairy tales. They need
reassurances that all the crap in life isn't just random happenstance, that there's a reason for their suffering.

They afraid of being irrelevant.

Well, would NOT believing make you irrelevant anyway? Their life is no more relevant than a blade of grass or a weed?

Sorry, I don't believe that stuff.

Those people can think of themselves as no more than a half eaten happy meal, and should be treated as such. I don't.

Even fungus has a purpose.

But then again, who wants to live with fungus all around them, in the walls and on their feet.

Everything is religion. Civilization is a religion. Why do we tolerate it? I don't know. Because we're not apes, I guess. We have no real choice. Our
wonderful brains won't allow us to live in the chaos of nature.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
Everything is religion. Civilization is a religion. Why do we tolerate it? I don't know. Because we're not apes, I guess. We have no real choice. Our
wonderful brains won't allow us to live in the chaos of nature.

Probably because "we as a "people" are, by-and-large, believers tolerating people like you.

You anti-religion bigots seem to forget you're actually a very small minority. I think that's why you guys are so pissed off all the time--you can't
see past the limitations of your own positivist indoctrination. You know you're missing something but refuse to acknowledge it.

Anyway. Don't stand there in shock that people still believe. Or stick your nose up at them. There's far more of them than you, and they know
something you don't.

I read people's religion shouldn't be imposed or forced on other people but circumcision does force religion onto other people. Kids under 18 don't
get to choose. I don't think genitals should be cut with no choice by those getting cut. Stoning people, cutting kids genitals, all of this does not
appear to follow the golden rule.

I am religious not because my mind was programmed to follow the practice but because I have seen there are things in this world which exist that most
have not seen. On the other hand maybe I can do powerful telekinesis when conditions are right. Maybe I can materialize a nearly invisible girl or
entity as well. I doubt it. If I started believing all that, it would just be one more small step to think I created this universe and stuck myself
in it without any power because I was bored for billions of years. Maybe I just need to focus my thoughts. Going to win 7000 a week for life. All
will be great. If I really did create this universe, I can fix everything when I break free and remember everything.

All the pain and suffering inflicted on mankind by other people can be undone by someone who is all powerful. Some might call it interference and not
letting mankind do as he pleases but hurting other people in the name of religion is not good at all in my opinion.

I even read there could be a correlation between warlike countries and the rate of circumcision in the country. I read circumcision was often done
with little to no pain relief on the most sensitive part of a sensitive baby's body. The suggestion was the pain is so intense, that it gets imbedded
into the subconscious mind and leads to men being more violent and aggressive. It also mutilates men's bodies and causes hair to be located where it
isn't supposed to be. It's just as barbaric as some African tribes sewing up women's vaginas and then cutting them open after marriage. You can
argue what's more barbaric but it still hurts others in the name of religion or tradition which I believe is not what Jesus taught. If someone
really made an effort to follow what Jesus taught, they would turn the other cheek before hurting anyone unless they themselves enjoyed pain.

I was taught a story in High School about how a society always had a lottery each year where someone would die for good crops. It was limited to
young people. The moral of the story went if tradition seems wrong, maybe it should be changed. Ask the question, does the tradition hurt someone?
In the example above, everyone is happy with the lottery until their son or daughter gets selected. People keep blindly following tradition and
religion. Some people make an effort to change. Many do not. If my father smacked the crap out of me for misbehaving as a kid, I'm much more likel
to smack the crap out of my potential kid rather than send him to timeout or alternative punishments. Some people are trying to change. I see that
as good. I don't blame atheists for seeing all the bad religion creates because it created a lot of traditions people have blindly followed for
hundreds or thousands of years as if God said it must be done. As far as I know God gave us the Ten Commandments and Jesus gave us the golden rule.
Everything else is someone's interpretation. I'm not an expert though. Maybe God commanded the Jews to cut genitals. I just never read it.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
For the most part I see religious folks breaking down into 2 groups: simple minded folks, and folks who need moral support. There are other types,
like the true believers who have an experience.

I just don't want to take something so important away from folks who believe. I rarely discuss my viewpionts because i don't want to tell adults who
still need santa that santa doesn't exist. Besides, it usually doesn't matter because people identify as their religion, and will ignore you.

My mom is religious, but is much less so after living with me the last 6 years.

Its scary to think that when you die, its over. Folks have a real hard time with that one in particular.

Lol. Funny post.

I don't believe in Santa. Well... I mean st Nick was a real guy but you know...

I'm in the "other" catagory you mentioned due to an experience I had that you, nor anyone on ATS, or elsewhere will ever convince me that it didn't
happen. If anyone thinks they are more intellectually superior than me due to that fact, then so be it. I don't care.

One of my earliest threads was about how God has nothing to do with "religion" since the word means bondage, or slavery, but I can't even find it in
my own profile lol. That's how old it is. It didn't get much attention anyway... But I know for a fact that a relationship is possible to have with
God, and Christ is the bridge to him.

Most Christians are aware of how ridiculed they will be for even talking about it these days. It's expected and even written about in the bible. I
don't talk about it unless the topic is brought up, or someone asks my opinion. I think the "good news" has been spread, and it's been rejected for
the most part. Again, expected.

I don't believe God whomever he might be, even believes in Religion. He's probably sitting back with a spliff enjoying the moment watching everyone,
smiling at just how dense this place has become The wanna be's, the 'In gangs', the Popular Groups with Narcissistic Tendancies'... Yeah he's laughing
his Ass off, If I were God I would. Again, just my personal opinion.

if i would have posted a thread in a different forum about your average joe putting his mouth on it after the circumcision people would have freaked
out. it would have been shock and awe and people would have done there usual # of coming up with the correct punishment.
how he is a pedo and on and on

start it in here and mention it in a religious context and people basically say nothing about it or gloss right past it.

i know that is not the actual topic of the thread but it is open to discussion and everyone is cool not mentioning it

Faith, on the other hand; faith is your personal connection to the cosmos. Every founder of a new "religion" was actually a reformer, who replaced a
moral code with the direct apprehension of Spirit. Then his followers, who don't "have the spirit," replace ecstasy with mere morality. And yet
another "religion" is spawned. New rules that are simpler than the old rules. Every founder taught the presence of baracha, the spirit. And his
followers subsititute rules because they lost the divine presence, the lost word.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
now having said that i want to say that i feel like religion is one of the worst things that has ever existed or 'happened' to humanity.

It is highly likely that humanity would still be living in the wild with out religion. Religion was an integral part to early man's consciousness
awakening. And that's also why we "tolerate" it to day; its ingrained in us.

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