The Gladys and Robert Zimmerman Jr Show on Univision

Wednesday, December 12, 2012 (12/12/12)

I received yesterday the following English transcript of an interview of Robert Zimmerman, Jr., and his mother, Gladys Zimmerman. The interview was conducted by Jorge Ramos of Univision and forwarded to me by Elliott, an old friend at Firedoglake. The interview was conducted in Spanish, Gladys Zimmerman’s native language.

Below is the English-language transcript of Univision’s Spanish-language interview with Robert Zimmerman Jr. and Gladys Zimmerman. The Spanish-language transcript can be found following this transcript. If you have any questions, please contact Jose Zamora: josezamora@univision.net.

UNIVISION NEWS TRANSCRIPT

Program: Al Punto with Jorge Ramos
Content: Interview with Robert Zimmerman Jr. and Gladys Zimmerman
Air date: December 9, 2012

Key

JR: Jorge Ramos
RZ: Robert Zimmerman Jr.
GZ: Gladys Zimmerman

JR: In his first conversation with Spanish-language TV, joining us here in the studio is Robert Zimmerman, George’s brother. Robert, thanks for being with us.

RZ: Hello, Jorge.

JR: Thank you very much for being here. Thank you. And via satellite, his mother, Gladys Zimmerman, who for safety reasons does not want her face to be shown. Mrs. Zimmerman, thanks for being with us.

GZ: You’re welcome. Hello, Jorge.

JR: Let me start with you. Of course, you’re Peruvian and speak Spanish very well, and this will make this interview with you much easier. The first question is, where is George at this time?

GZ: George is in Seminole County, under court order.

JR: What were the conditions the court imposed on him? Can he leave his home?

GZ: Oh, yes, he can leave home from 6:00 in the morning until 6:00 in the evening.

JR: And does he do it or is he afraid he’ll be recognized?

GZ: There are days he has to do it, mostly for his mental health.

JR: Of course, I assume that at this time, beyond coming and going for basic necessities, I guess he’s not working or doing anything to make a living. Right?

GZ: Unfortunately, Jorge, no. And I doubt that in the future or near future he’ll be able to work and make a living.

JR: Let me start by talking about this case, and I understand that due to legal reasons, there are many things you cannot talk about. You tell me what you can and you cannot talk about. But…

GZ: Sure.

JR: … when you first found out that your son had been involved in this incident in which he shot Trayvon Martin, how did you find out?

GZ: I found out from him.

JR: What did he tell you?

GZ: He told me he’d had an incident and that, unfortunately, he’d had to use a weapon to defend himself.

JR: Regarding the weapon, how is it that George has access to weapons? At home, was it customary to be armed? Was that something that the Zimmermans did?

GZ: Look, let me tell you, we have lived in Virginia most of our lives. We’ve lived there for 31 years, and George lived there for 17 years of his life. He was born there, grew up there, he graduated from high school there, and then he came to Florida. It’s in Florida that the law is different in the sense that people can get weapons, get a license and can carry them. The same thing happens in Virginia, but here I’ve noticed that people can get a weapon, what they call a concealed weapon, and carry the weapon, and it’s no big deal.

JR: And did you know that George had a weapon?

GZ. The reality is that I didn’t know that George had a weapon.

JR: And did you know if George was involved in neighborhood watch activities in the area where he lived?

GZ: Yes, I knew he was helping out, he was very worried about the home burglaries that had happened. I’m familiar with those houses, and I couldn’t believe there were so many burglaries, especially in a gated area, you know?

JR: Very well, and now, I want to get to the point. As you know, your son George is accused of Trayvon Martin’s death, and many people in the United States suspect that he did it for racial reasons. However, you and his lawyers insist that it wasn’t because of race, but rather to defend himself from a personal attack. What is your interpretation? What happened?

GZ: George is not a racist. My family is not racist. That will come out in the evidence. What will also come out in the evidence and what has been seen lately is the photo of my son after he was beaten up. My son defended himself for dear life. The young man who attacked him, for reasons we do not know, left a mark behind and thank God there is a photo that can show that mark. If it weren’t for that mark…

JR: Are you referring to the color photo that shows your son with wounds on his face?

GZ: Exactly. That photo that was turned over to the defense in black and white, and now it has been turned over, thank God, in color, shows how my son was attacked. According to young Martin’s autopsy, he had no marks on him, except the bullet that went into his chest, which unfortunately, killed him.

JR: Well, you say that George wasn’t racist. There are many people who assert that if Trayvon Martin hadn’t been wearing a hoodie and hadn’t been African-American, he’d be alive today. That is, they suggest that all this was motivated simply by the fact that Trayvon Martin was African-American.

GZ: No. This happened because Trayvon attacked my son. If Trayvon Martin hadn’t attacked my son in the savage way he did… Look, Mr. Ramos, if somebody punches you in the nose, I can’t imagine the pain it can cause. But to be punched in the nose, to fall down to the ground, to have someone jump on you and hit you fiercely and bust your head open every time you try to get up, and bang your head against the pavement, and for a neighbor to open the door and say, “Stop, because I’m going to call the cops,” and for that neighbor to provide the description of the person who was hitting him, the one who was lying on the ground, using what they call MMA style, mixed martial arts. I had never seen that sport, but I saw it on YouTube and I was shocked at people getting hit so aggressively.

JR: Now, wasn’t your son’s reaction in using a weapon excessive? Couldn’t he have defended himself in some other way?

GZ: Well, I can’t tell you because I’m not in his shoes. But the only thing I can tell you is this: show the photo of my son like that, in color, and play the tape, that tape in which he asks for help, in what many witnesses say is my son’s voice. Even Trayvon Martin’s father, Mr. Tracy Martin, says that it is my son’s voice. Show those two things together.

JR: I emphasize, you have told us in this show that George is not a racist. I understand, of course, that George and your son Robert went to Peru on several occasions, and you well know that in Latin America there is a lot of discrimination, not only against indigenous groups, but also among people who have darker skin. What did you teach your children regarding the discrimination we have in Latin America? How did you raise them?

GZ: Look, Mr. Ramos, in Peru we have a saying that basically says, “If you’re not one thing, you’re another,” which means that if you don’t have Indian blood in you, you probably have some African blood. In my family, we’re proud of our Afro-Peruvian heritage. My kids know their aunts and uncles; they know our roots, and my roots aren’t with non-Hispanic whites. My roots are Afro-Peruvian. So they have been brought up, not just here at home as a family, but in school, not to notice peoples’ skin color. I call them “my kids” because they are part of my family, because skin color doesn’t mean anything to me either.

JR: Mrs. Zimmerman, as you know, President Barack Obama weighed in on the issue when he said that if he had had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon Martin. How do you respond to that?

GZ: Well, at the beginning it hurt a lot, but now that I know how things developed, because, honestly, Jorge, at the beginning I barely even watched TV. My husband and my doctors forbade me from watching TV. It has all been really traumatic, but now that I’ve seen how Trayvon Martin’s family’ lawyers have presented this case; I don’t blame the President, because they fooled him, too. All of this has to be set straight: all the lies that have been told by Mr. Crump, by Ms. Nathalie Jackson through Ryan Julison of Julison Communications. It all needs to come out, but they told a lie to the nation, to the whole world, and even the President himself.

JR: Mrs. Zimmerman…

GZ: That’s how I feel about this now.

JR: Mrs. Zimmerman, I’ll come back to you in a moment. Now I’m going to go to your son Robert, who is with us in the studio. Robert, thanks again for joining us on Al Punto. Your brother George Zimmerman’s legal team has filed a lawsuit for defamation against NBC. Why?

RZ: Well, George has explained in his own words how they made up a racial narrative, because the facts of this story just weren’t sensational enough for people who wanted to report more. So words like white, black, and gated community were used from the beginning to speculate about what had happened, which was very, very different from what really happened on that day.

JR: The debate is centered on whether your brother acted out of racism or self-defense. What do you know about that? What has your brother told you?

RZ: Well, as a brother, I know we need to ask why Trayvon Martin punched him. You know? Lots of people are focusing on what George did. He did the same thing he did 40 times in one year: he called the police. What George did is that same thing that was done 400 times over 13 months where he lived, in a neighborhood of less than 200 homes around there. Four hundred calls to the police: why? Because there were a lot of robberies, there was a woman with a baby who was just months old, in her bedroom while her house was being robbed, and people were afraid. So I think that what George…

JR: But is this the first time that George has used a handgun to defend himself this way?

RZ: Oh, yes. In the state of Florida, handguns are licensed, but you have to keep them concealed. Back where we were in Virginia, as my mother started to explain, the law is totally opposite. Even without a license, you can carry a handgun just like I have done when I’ve gone out to shoot at a public range as long as it’s in sight.

JR: Do you know if George had a handgun?

RZ: Yes, yes, I had always known that both George and his wife had a permit for that gun. There was an attack, or, an alleged incident in which they could have been attacked by a dog, but that has nothing to do with our case. But at that time a police officer suggested to him, “Look, if you’re so afraid of that dog and if these people don’t keep it under control, it’s better for you to be armed than to wind up in the hospital.”

JR: Okay. So, what’s the next step? What are you folks emphasizing in the defense the fact that you are a Hispanic family?

RZ: No, Jorge, because I think that would be going, well, going backward on the progress we’ve made about race. We are an American family, and what happened that night was a tragedy. That’s what it has always been for our family, but for us to say, “We’re Latinos, and so Latinos need to take our side rather than someone else’s because that person is of a different color,” that wouldn’t be right, either. Now, what has surprised the public is that we are not non-Hispanic whites. That photo of George where he has very light skin is because it was a photocopy, that photo doesn’t look like him. And if that photo had been published in color, if people had known something more about George than just the word non-Hispanic white like they put on all the posters when they were offering $10,000 for him dead or alive, for turning him in…. Well, if they had known something about what really happened that night, maybe we wouldn’t have gotten to this point, but looking ahead, we need to make it clear that not only are we not racists, but the United States, and the whole world are watching us: as my mother said, “They even fooled the President.” Racism in this country is a game that pays really well. Lots of people are looking to make a buck, and there’s a lot of money to be made by alleging racism. You don’t even have to prove it.

JR: George, thanks for being here with us. I appreciate it a lot.

RZ: Thanks.

JR: Mrs. Gladys, thanks for joining us. Before we go, I just wanted to ask why you decided to talk to us, and why we are concealing your face. Do you fear for your life?

GZ: Yes, I fear for my life. I have to protect it, and I have to protect my family. I have an 88-year-old mother to take care of. If I have to come out in defense of my son, the best way I can do it is by keeping my identity concealed. We’ve come on Univision because we trust that it’s a news organization that will get to the truth, and I would love for it to be a Hispanic news organization that goes all the way in search of the truth.

JR: Gladys Zimmerman, thanks for speaking with us.

GZ: You’re welcome.

JR: Robert Zimmerman, thanks for being here.

RZ: Thanks, Jorge.

JR. Thanks to both of you.

***********************

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439 Responses to The Gladys and Robert Zimmerman Jr Show on Univision

How about this box of secenariooooos——Fogen Schnoz was
Splintering and splintering around the strawberry bushes forever and smooshed his strawberry lips together—when Brady cleaned him up he said son you look like broke the morse code with a dot dot gashhhhh!!!
Wonder bread omara, put that in your pipe crush up a little adderall
and smoke it–smoke it–smoke it

Our area’s top prosecutor is prepared to piece together how 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was killed. She’s joined by a capable team of two, including Veteran Prosecutor, Bernie De La Rionda, who’s tried 81 murder cases, and Director of Homicide, John Guy. The tough trio left for Sanford early Friday morning to gather information about George Zimmerman and how he came to kill Trayvon Martin. But before leaving, John guy agreed to met with Action News.

“We are going to gather as many facts as we can as fast as we can and complete that part of the investigation which is the fact finding portion,” said Guy.

Mr. Bernie de la Rionda serves as an Assistant State’s Attorney in the Fourth Judicial Circuit of Florida. In Florida, Mr. de la Rionda’s reputation as an exceptional prosecutor is legendary. In his 27 years of service, he has had more than 250 jury trials, 67 of which were homicide cases. During the last two years, from 2009 to 2010, Mr. de la Rionda was the lead counsel in five homicide trials, all of which were first-degree murder cases. Furthermore, in 22 cases he was successful in obtaining a death penalty recommendation and sentence.

Mr. de la Rionda demonstrates great passion for the work that he does, and he strives to promote a deeper sense of understanding of individual responsibility. Both in and out of the courtroom, Mr. de la Rionda is a dynamic and powerful communicator who is humble and approachable. The State’s Attorney, Angela B. Corey, wrote, “It is an honor for our young lawyers to have the great privilege of learning from his wealth of information and experience.”

The citizens of northeast Florida are the beneficiaries of the integrity and selflessness demonstrated throughout his career. FBI Jacksonville is honored to recognize Mr. de la Rionda for his notable service, leadership, and significant contributions to the prosecution of crime in Florida.

Tweezers WOULD do it in my non-medical but experienced-mom humble opinion. The little gouge on the back of the head, the scrape, and the nick on the nose. You’re right.

I have removed splinters, dislodged pebbles, and removed bandaids with tweezers for injured kids. They’re very good tools. I fail to understand a better use for them in “cleaning up” a guy with a nose bleed.

Anybody have an explanation for the two shots of the back of Fogen’s head, one pre-EMT clean-up and trip to station house, and the other one AFTER???? I’ve been asking that same question for a while now; any intelligence would be appreciated.

Keys has been mentioned but as I have been cut with a wide variety of metal objects in my line of work…and knowing what a true sissy he is, knowing keys would make him cry and say “owww SheLie, that huts..” I’d say it was something sharp like a knife or the needle end of tweezers.

On the night of 2/26/12 Witness 13 , Jon M took three pictures. One of the back of GZ head. He also took another picture of Trayvon’s dead body. He took yet another picture of the tactical flashlight. The copies of these pictures are included into State’s Discovery Number Six

So George’s back-of-head re-bled between 7:40 pm (when EMTs cleaned him up) and 11:40 pm (when copshop photos were taken) and the rivulets kind of came out the same? But only the rivulets, not the lacerations themselves, came out the same? Before and after the clean-up?

No wonder O’Mara is waving around pictures of Fogen’s Schnoz; the pictures of the back of his head are … kinda … suspicious …

Not sure if this has been answered in any previous post, but I have a couple of questions.

I’ve always wondered why a first-aid kit was found with a pair of tweezers sitting on top of it. Could the tweezers have been used to make the superficial scratches?

I’ve also wondered about the leaf in several of the evidence photos. Did it fall when someone ran into a tree? Or did the flashlight get caught in some branches, taking the leaf with it? Or did it just fall naturally?

Zim doesn’t have a superiority problem. His problem is a inferiority complex. He’s one of these people who’s under the delusion that their failure in life is caused by the “sins” of others. And if those people would just cleanse themselves, he could have what he thinks is rightfully his. Zimmerman is loathe to admit that he is slightly less than mediocre. I suspect his wife and friends have the same problem. Shellie and Taafe are also low grade sociopaths.

Fogen has manufactured his superiority complex. He has a deservedly LOW image of himself and wants others to prove he is comparatively high by their being even LOWER. So he has to have a supply of those he considers WAY LOWER than he is, such as African Americans who are not suitably impressed with HIS alleged superiority. Kids who are accepting him as a mentor (if there really are such kids, which I seriously doubt) would fit into his world view of young Blacks who LOOK UP to him. A kid who just walks along minding his own business and does not respond to Fogen as an automatically-empowered authority figure is NOT OK. Needs killing.

Again, I thought by putting it in quotation marks, I indicated as much. He ONLY feels superior if he is making others feel inferior – which is a symptom of feeling inferior in itself. And I am sure that was fueled by his mother not allowing them to play with the other kids fostered his feelings of inferiority while enabling his actions of superiority to make up for it.

I think the whole Zimmerman family has manufactured a superiority attitude by looking down at those in a different socioeconomic class including all ethnic groups but especially blacks who “act black” and do not act white like Joe Oliver, the token “black” friend. The Zimmermans are condescending and arrogant even to this day believing in their delusional minds that Trayvon was a “thug” who “savagely” attacked Chorge and society is better for the killing of Trayvon. No remorse, no regrets from any family member.

My first husband’s mom was a Southern belle living far-off in another state, but she wouldn’t let her kids play with the other-ethnicity and brown-skinned kids . . . not sayin’ Gladys is a bigot – it could have been for other reasons – religious? Not wanting any to get a glimpse of her abuse?

I don’t think it was because of brown-skinned kids because I get the feeling that they lived in an area away from “those” kinds. Could have been religious, could have been abuse. But whatever the reason, when you don’t want your kids playing with any kids in the neighborhood, it sets your kids apart and maybe not for the better.

When I was a kid, one of the neighbors wouldn’t let their kids play with the rest of us. I don’t think it was a superiority complex that time, but a mom with all sorts of imaginary phobias. I don’t think she’d let her kids out of her sight.

One reason to not let your kid play with other kids is to keep family secrets inside the family. Sometimes those “others” can come to your kid’s house under YOUR supervision so you can keep things under control. But your kid going to their house is not allowed. Also, sometimes kids are not allowed to play with other kids because they will get “ideas.” Another reason is to impression upon your OWN kids how “special” and “superior” your family is — those other riff raff are not to be played with; they’re not LIKE us.

All supposition:
1.) A biological parent of Jr and Fogen-Leghorn has been in trouble with the law, so like the parents of Sleeping Beauty, they try to keep all sharp objects (outside influences) away. To no avail.

Well there’s another possibility. If Fogen acted out aggressively or sexually with his cousin, that could be kept “all in the family” and no real trouble would result. If he did stuff like that with other kids in the neighborhood, maybe THOSE parents would not be as “hush hush” about it and they might turn the Zimmerman’s in for suspected child abuse, or make a fuss about Fogen to the neighbors, or something like that. Maybe Momma GZ had to keep the kids home to prevent trouble. Look what happened when they let him out at RTL!

This is from a different site – The first one is the one listed above, but the second one might be somehow part of it because they were filed the same day – but one is TR-UNL and the other TR-CER – but again, I don’t know what that means and if they are one in the same. But my point is – anyone who says they never went over the speed limit on a voice stress analysis or on a lie detector IS LYING. And if someone would lie about something as insignificant as a speeding ticket – who knows WTH they would lie about.

Any of his statements during the test are admissible, at the option of the prosecution as admissions by a party opponent.

Subject to the rule of completenes to complete a statement introduced by the prosecution as an admission by a party opponent in order to prevent confusion or a misinterpretation, the defense cannot get any of them admitted because they are hearsay.

GZ bold-faced LIED on the voice stress test. One of the baseline questions was if he had ever gone over the speed limit. He said no. That just seemed ridiculous to me because everyone has gone over the speed limit at some time, but whatever.

Rachel, the voice-stress guy TOLD him to lie on that one so he could get a “baseline” for what kind of stress was in Fogen’s voice when he was lying. Two control questions for lying:
Are the walls green?
Did you ever get pulled over for speeding?

Neither control question was any good. The whole test was silly. That’s theater; ignore it. Fogen’s voice would not be stressed when he lied about killing Trayvon Martin; his voice WOULD be stressed (and WAS) when Serino and Singleton challenged his story and tried to make him answer questions that he did NOT like being asked. Then his voice dropped and was barely audible and he said either “I don’t know” or “I don’t rememer” or both.

The formula used by Fogen when he called the NEN line was, “say any old rubbish.” The formula he had used in the 49 prior calls he had made complaining of things in the neighborhood was “say any old rubbish.” The formula used by him when he had just finished killing Trayvon Martin was, “say any old rubbish.” The formula he stuck to while he was interviewed by Singleton with T. Smith present was, “say any old rubbish.” The formula he used when Singleton and Serino interviewed him was, “say any old rubbish.” The formula he used on the “re-enactment” was, “say any old rubbish.” The formula he used on Hannity was, “say any old rubbish and include a reference to God.”

Are we to be surprised that his defense uses the strategy of, “say any old rubbish”? Are we to be surprised that his family relies upon the formula, “say any old rubbish”? I think by now it’s a litany.

are you serious? if you are i can tell you what is factual so you won’t have to worry about it again.

DD is a code name given to the kid Trayvon was talking to on the phone right before he was killed. This is a friend of his that has given her statement to authorities. they are on audio and you can listen to them on axiom or you tube.

Tracy Martin didn’t make anything up. What he did was what the police should have done the very same day Trayvon was killed. He realized Trayvon was on the phone at the time and called the number back to inquire.

The police on the other hand did not even bother to check the dead boys cell phone, which was in plain site lying on the grass just feet from this child’s body.They easily could of used the phone to figure out who he was.

girl i know i just can’t deal! they really ruined the forums by doing what they did, now they only have you-know-who, and 2-3 zimmerlovers left!
normal peeps don’t even comment at all because of the trash talk. it’s too sick and disturbing..

Yes it is true. Her name is not really Deedee. It is a codename to protect her identity, since it is a high profile case. The Zimmernuts cult have depraved endlessly to find her identity and have harassed, threatened and attacked anyone whom they deemed to be Deedee. There is loads of evidence of this and the perpetrators will be facing problems soon.

We understand that there may have been such actions directed at individuals who may be associated with Witness #8. In an October 19 hearing, the defense team requested a Subpoena Duces Tecum for the social media accounts of Witness #8; however, we intentionally did not disclose her name or any possible Twitter handle out of respect for her privacy. (We still have not been informed of her Twitter handles). If there is an individual who has been mistaken as Witness #8, and if this individual has been subjected to these practices, then we feel that those who knew Witness #8’s identity and therefore her Twitter handle, such as the State Attorneys Office or the handlers of the Martin family, have had many specific opportunities through social media or press conferences to publicly correct the misrepresentations and end the concerns — an opportunity they have yet to take. We implore them to do so now, to minimize any further damage. If they know the Twitter handles are of a person unrelated to the case, why has this not been publicized?

I responded to his site and posted how one of his supporters cyber – stalked me on HP and even posted my personal address and name. Then he stated I am a homeless bum and so on, which is far from the truth. I have yet to see a single attack like that on them by us. I also stated flat out that we know for a fact that many of the posters on these sites are Fogen, his family and his posse and he damn well better do something about. I’m sure, since this is about the 5th time I went there and tore them up, I’ll get an apology that is civil. I went on RZ jrs a month ago and stated the same thing…..I never heard back from him…..Hmmmmm? was it something I said?

My question is how Omara thinks divulging the private information of a witness, is supposed to help, or that it is the state and Crump’s fault, that people ie Zimmcult have stalked and threatened someone? They should not have to go on TV and divulge anyone’s identity or personal information and the people responsible for such threats should just know better.

I highly doubt that Tracy Martin and his attorneys made up a person that was ON THE PHONE with Trayvon when he wa shot. If you insist on this, please provide proof that she was invented (along with her phone records, I suppose)

I respect him a lot too. The man goes out of his way to help a kid he does not even know, while Fogenhats and his family are phony and are destroying human life. The Fogenhats family seem to have a twisted reality of what is decent because even before this murder occurred… there was a long history

SANFORD – After Chris Serino, the Sanford police detective who led the investigation into the Trayvon Martin shooting death, wrote the most important police report in the case, he revised it at least four times.

And he made at least one huge change: He initially said George Zimmerman should be charged with second-degree murder then changed course and recommended a charge of manslaughter, according to a prosecutor and new list of evidence.

Serino made all those revisions to the report summarizing his findings during one five-hour stretch on March 13, according to a newly-released evidence list.

Mrs. Zimmerman are you calling this kid a SAVAGE? I say to you what can be come savage than putting a bullet hole in the chest of a 17 yr old kid huh? What can be more savage than that. Take a look in the mirror your family are a bunch of liars and you guys are full of prejudice and the sad part is you all know it an instead of keeping your mouth shut, you open it for all the world to hear the asinine things you say.

That she used the word savage makes me say all bets are off on the use of “1st comes to mind” descriptions. Seriously ……savage, 3 small savage scratches ?? There is no way she is on top of what is going on, or she is just one of the racist Zidiots on HP.

racer….My feeling is still that the scratches were self-inflicted…on both his face and the back of his head. And I feel that he may have intentionally scratched the septum inside his nose to make it bleed.

I don’t think his nose was actually bleeding. Wayyyyy back I joked that he got the scratches on his head from SheLie as she whacked him upside the back of his head because he wouldn’t help with the dishes.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ? I now believe I was 1/2 right. I now believe she administered the scratches as “Pre – Proof” of a “…savage…” “…vicious…” “…head bashing…” which nearly caused the “…my head felt like it was about to explode…” experience.

The Fogen family would just chuckle at Fogen’s “diddling” a girl cousin. They would not take her feelings into consideration; they would think her parents’ getting upset about it was stupid and they would, if pressed, call her a slut who seduced their little boy. It is my guess that the sexual molestation STARTED in the Fogen household. Children who act out sexually are usually those who are trying to get into control of situations that make them feel powerless and confused, but that also involve some kind of sexual component — and I won’t speculate about any more of it. Fogen really needs professional psychiatric help, in my opinion.

MOM got this case after other attorney’s “artfully” stepped out of his way. He envisioned a high profile case, with some prospect of winning, however slim the chance might be, where he could burnish his bonafides on a national stage. Only after he got in, and GZ totally abandoned his credibility for once and for all, did MOM realize he had stepped into a no-win quagmire. He tried to console himself with the fact that big funds were sure to come pouring in, but GZ, once again opened him big mouth about his Proud Hispanic Heritage, and caused the white power/gun fun money to dry up. Leaving MOM with a no win, no pay case, that has destroyed his reputation to boot. Making GZ a total disaster, everything he touches turns to mold.

There’s a reason why we have professionals in different fields. Lawyers tell clients not to talk, because talking cuts off the number of theories of innocence a lawyer may use, to create the alternate views needed. For example, GZ says, states and insists a number of times that when he was at the ‘T’ he was punched and knocked to the ground. Then, before any attorney can postulate that he was dragged or chased to another location, GZ tries to fix his error, by saying that he stumbled over to there. But “there” doesn’t go far enough to cover the distance, because he’s caught himself in a trap.
The fool decided he could do it all by himself, without professional help.

Then he discovered that 100’s of K dollars were coming in. He foolishly thought he knew why. He opened his mouth and said the wrong thing and poof, the money stopped coming in. A media pro would not have even tried to guess what was going on, he or she would have collected the data and subjected it to collaborative analysis, before deciding what could be said and what should be said, from what should not be said. Likely mistakes that would happen, would slow the flow of cash, but not cut it off, and that damage could be repaired.

Instead GZ spent his money on wasted efforts, he won’t need a good credit rating where he’s headed. But heck, it couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy.

Not a Fogen thing……Lets face it, they do give us reams of material. I was the “Class Clown” kind of guy in HS and try to use my wit for a laugh. This is not a laughing matter as far as it being a brutal murder and the psycho babble by the Zidiot Nation, make no mistake.

But what the say and the train of thought invites what we do. I did promise not to call his “lawyer” Moron O’ Mara anymore but Moldy is another matter.

Professor says: “If you stare at the Sun, you won’t see anything except your dreams.”
—————————

Exactly! A characteristic of the “outhouse” crowd to be sure. Now MOM’s 74 pages of “Taft material” is headed for it’s proper resting place.

That motion turned out to be less than just useless, because it opened the door for BDLR to engage in the Bond Hearing Smackdown he gave MOM in return. Was it effective? Well, IMO it left the judge gap jawed and staring at GZ, as if she expected a responsive posturing other than what GZ was doing. This, from a judge who usually maintains a poker face. At the least, she’s finding GZ astounding.

Professor: “It’s about how much time he does and whether he gets any mental health treatment while doing it.”

Seriously, can a habitual lying sociopath with no remorse and no regrets and delusions of grandeur (selling autographs like a superstar) get mental health treatment? Judging by his behavior, I would think the best Chorge will ever get is with psych medication and will never come to terms with the fact that he is mentally unbalanced.

Saying “savage” is to convey that Trayvon Martin, by virtue of being African American, is considered a “savage.” People like the Fogen Family believe that African Americans were OK when they were trained and controlled savages being used for the workforce and when “they knew their place.” But when they persist in being savages who think they have a right to go to the 7-11, buy things that cost more than 40 cents, and just skip away unscathed, then they need to be taught a lesson.

Absolutely. The lesson began when Fogen first heard the name “Angela Corey” In fact, he called her several times back in April and I’m sure it wasn’t to say she looked good in that red dress she wore at the press conference to announce his upcoming arrest.

That interview was lacking to say the least. The family is focused on what the public thinks of them, instead of what the killer has done to thrust himself into the public’s eye. They are worried about the wrong thing period. There is nothing that they can say to change anyone’s mind or their obvious racism. And………it has nothing to do with the charge of murder. The state did not charge the killer with racism, or a hate crime, but…….they charged him with murder. They all need to stop trying to get paid from the racists in this country…..which is exactly who are sending them money……them and those that are afraid about their gun rights. RZ is the biggest hypocrite that I have ever seen. And as far as Frank goes…..if the crime is so bad……..Move.

The gun rights people ought to be the first to lobby for stricter gun control, instead of thinking somebody is trying to take their guns away. there was a shooting at a mall yesterday, where two people died and one teen girl was injured. it would have been worse if the gun hadn’t jammed. the shooter was a 20 something white male and, he killed himself as well. this country is seeing more and more gun violence than a lot of third world countries and, that is a shame. people in this country have every right to bear arms but, that don’t give them the right to kill people.

Professor this is a bunch of trained BS from the zimmerman family. The witness already UNDER OATH said he didn’t see punches or hitting, just wrestling. The nerve these people have to come on national tv and tell blatant lies show George’s guilt. If I was innocent of a crime I couldn’t wait to go to trial to prove it. They are doing everything possible to sway potential jurors and try to escape a trial. People who follow this case and actually read and see ALL the evidence and false statements from cheorge know that he is not only guilty, but a sociopathic liar. I have a good feeling that mr de la rionda feels the same as us

From the time I saw Gladys’s interview on Piers, and how distressed she was just before Piers quickly cut the interview, I have worried about her “station”in that family. It appears she does not read or speak english very well, and her regurgitation of the absurd “MMA” reference and naive faith in the bloody photo leads me to believe that her opinions are based entirely on what Junior and Senior are telling her those opinions must be.

Seeing that she does not read or speak English very well, how in the hell did she get a job working in the court system in the common wealth of Virginia?

She was a circuit clerk, or as some attorneys describe them, “data entry clerks who try to give you a hard time.” Circuit clerks take papers that are being filed with the court. They tell litigants the judge’s calendar for scheduling motion hearings. They collect filing fees, traffic ticket fees — stuff like that.

The current elected Clerk of the Circuit Court of Winnebago County, IL started working as a clerk straight out of high school about 20 yrs ago. He never attended college.

His group leader on the criminal counter qualified for her job because her previous job was a bar maid — able to talk to the public. (gag)

His group leader on the civil counter has a butt-crack tattoo and wears low-riders and short tops to show it off — she’s about 5’3″ and 200 lbs.

The only qualifications listed on job openings for circuit clerk in the aforementioned county and state, is a high school diploma or GED, and 3 yrs work experience. What is not written, but generally known, is that it helps to know someone who knows someone if you want the job.

You get your job working in the court system of Virginia by a variety of means. None of the methods has anything to do with competence, lack of criminality, or honesty. Of course, there are plenty of competent, non-criminal, honest people working for that court system. Some of them see corruption all around them and never report it. Others “don’t see” it. Blindness is not a bar to employment.

I was simply saying the measurement of the physiological levels of stress in the voice after any type of incident, in relation to what happened, would be an indicator of the actual mental state of the person, and how it can relate to all the other evidence

For example, for the defendant in this incident, for him to not be stressed, and be so calm about killing a kid, claim to be scared for his life and not be stressed and was completely calm, shows me that the person’s physiological levels do not match his claims and could be a part of the evidence against a certain individual that they are a sociopath because that is not very normal, because it tells me that for the defendant, killing an individual is not a big deal.

I think I get what you’re trying to say: If his biometrics were moved in the stress test, then why weren’t they moved at the crime scene, where his biometrics were so flat. That would be a good question, the answer would seem to be either drugs, alcohol or both.

This is my opinion anyways of why I dont believe the defendant’s pure danger theories

1) The same thing Bernie said in that the defendant and his lawyer keep publicizing the case and being very public and walking around lookin’ about very public. The only people in danger of walking around lookin’ about in public is from the defendant, who targeted, stalked, terrorized and murdered a 17 year old boy for walking home

2) The state and the federal government are already grinding his culo into the ground for everyone, so there is no need for anyone to go at him. The defendant in the Trayvon Murder case could very well be prosecuted twice and get 2 life sentences due to the dual sovereignty.

3) The defendant wears a bulletproof vest and that really does not stop people from going at him, and in reality, people can still shoot him in the head, the legs, and the arms. No one has even attempted to shoot or attack the defendant, nor have they attacked his brother who does not even wear a bullet proof vest.

4) Where are the proofs of these threats? No one even knows where either of them are and the only public profile is Junior’s and he is not even very popular considering he was on national TV in front of millions.

They are a white supremacist gang that accepts hispanic members who wish they were white, much like the half white half hispanic George Zimmerman

Just like sovereign citizens, they are opportunists, using anyone to further their agenda. Those who are not White are the ones most likely to go to prison. Look at how sovereign citizens used Wesley Snipes who bought into the theory about income taxes.

Funny that the defendant in the Trayvon Murder case has also spoken of having fall guys for himself too, on his myspace

He sure did. For GZ however, I think it was more about him believing himself to be a badass with guys afraid of him. GZ has that demeanor. He showed it in court yesterday as Bernie was arguing against the motion to modify release — chin out — clenching teeth. I think it was the only time (at least when the camera was on him) that he looked in that direction.

That would make sense but I feel bad for the hispanics in that gang because they are so blind that they believe in white supremacy and they are not even white themselves. It is an idiotic ideology and there are very beautiful Latino cultures, such as Boriquas, etc so I dont get why they are disowning themselves.

I wonder if this attitude is a contributing factor as to why the defendant is demented, as he is having trouble coming to grasps that he is latino

I wonder if this attitude is a contributing factor as to why the defendant is demented, as he is having trouble coming to grasps that he is latino

Yes, I would say that GZ has a racial identity crisis. Osterman said that he was GZ’s “token” White friend, and that GZ “had” numerous Black friends. What about Latino friends? With Florida being such a diverse state, it seems as though GZ would have friends of every race and culture — not just Osterman, Taaffe and Oliver.

No mystery there, it’s well known that some people simply hate themselves, it’s called “self hatred”, they hate who they are because they want to be someone else. GZ want’s to be white, he knows his family values being white, so he hates himself because he’s not totally white. Then seeks out ways that might allow him to rationalize away his “Hispanic Heritage”, by pretending to be white.
At least until accusations of racism are made against him, then he goes the other way.

Point is, people who are weak minded enough to believe these inconsequential things make a real difference, are easily manipulated.

Hmmm… Maybe this was an initiation to start a branch in FLA. led by GZ of course. Well, now he’ll have to work from prison. I wonder if all that money coming in was from the “8 keys” pledges?
In any event, the utterly senseless stupidity GZ has displayed, sort of warns everyone, bar none, to stay far away from this guy.

Lonnie – I have believed from the start that Toadboat killing Trayvon Martin was an initiation. He planned this kill for awhile and was not working alone that night. He is an opportunist and took great measures to ensure that he walked away that night. Had Trayvon been a criminal or troublemaker, he would have walked away. His rehearsed NEN call did not match the events. He chose someone who is not a fighter and that was his downfall.

Yes, as I said before, we here have the luxury of examining the “gossamer” threads of conspiracy that might attend. The official investigators don’t need to do what we’re able to do… Of course, they should also be pursuing these lines to exclude them, but, they have a case that is already employing their resources. We can cast a much wider net, but we need to find evidence to back up any trail we think needs to be pursued, before they can pick it up.

That said, I found this particular night, just too cock full of “coincidences”. That TM should go to the store in the rain at that particular time, instead of sooner when it was light and perhaps drier. That a 711 store, would have so much foot traffic at that particular time of night. That people TM’s own age should appear, within minutes of his arrival. Seems to me to be just a wee bit too much luck, had TM wanted a black and mild. The odds are that the next person in the store, would be an adult who had driven there, not three youths on foot. Of course I can’t say it’s impossible, but just that it strikes me as a wee bit unlikely.

Just as it struck me as unlikely that GZ, could see TM in the cut through by FT’s, while he was moving at some 30 feet per second, on a road that was bending to the west, to make a sharp turn to the east, in the rain and at night. I found it strange indeed, that he would, under these circumstances, turn his head 90 degrees to the west and peer into the cut through, through a rain speckled drivers side window. Then observe motions TM made, that would obviously have taken more than 10 seconds, and yet he makes no mention of having stopped to observe it all, on an empty road that would certainly attract TM’s attention. So there it just seemed too unlikely to have happened. Now we know that it didn’t happen that way at all, because by time GZ left home, TM had already been at the mail boxes.

So, now I’m saying it’s unlikely that TM should meet these guys at the store. I mean, look at how little time he spent there. These guys were on foot, so they had to be pretty close by to arrive before TM left. TM, it seems to me, handed the clerk a five dollar bill, he did get change and he didn’t break the 2 twenties his father gave him. So he had at least 2 dollars and change. But he’s found later with only 20 dollars and ten cents in his pockets.

On his way out of the store he meets these guys coming in, he can’t pass them money inside the store, or the clerk will see it and know that the b/m is for him. So, he goes outside and waits, after merely asking them to buy one for him? Without giving them money first? So where does this trust thing come from? Most times I’ve seen kids trying to get people to buy beer or cigarettes for them, they walk away from the front of the store and exchange money, before they come back into the story and make the forbidden purchase. I’ve seen people not get the money and say okay, they’ll do it, but when they come out of the story they simply say they forgot and walk away. So there’s something about that little exchange that says to me it’s “strange”.

I’m with you LLMPapa… Something inside of me is telling me when Serino got the call that night, he knew something was up… I just don’t want to believe Serino wanted any parts of that cover-up mess. I believe the way Serino conducted his investigation, he was conducting it in a way where the other officers thought he was down with the plan, but at the same time he was sabotaging it… For example him correcting the witness about the screams I believe that was SERINO’S way to put that witness up on game as to what HE was told by the other officers… The whole “not wanting to see where she witnessed the shooting” is very suspect also… I believe he did things blatantly so that lady would keep pressure on the SPD..The way Serino pretended to be GZ’s buddy was PRICELESS,.. He needed Lee, Wolfinger Smith and all the other crooked cops to believe he was on their side … Then……..BAM! GUT CHECK… “Sometimes you gotta to something strange to get a little CHANGE”….. I hope I’m not wrong about Serino… I just don’t want to believe that out of all those officers, not one of them had a conscience??? That would such a disappointment.. If Serino is the type of guy I think he is, he’s gonna throw everybody under the bus and take his punishment like a man for his involvement…. just my thoughts…

Rethink that movie script you have there. In the real world, an honest and professional investigator does not tamper with evidence.

For. Any. Reason.

At some point, his doubts that the scheme would work hit critical mass and the overpowering desire to save his career and reputation took over culminating in the 5-hour/3-draft recommendation to charge manslaughter, become a pariah and hide out on the graveyard shift.

To me, he is by far the most fascinating character in this case and I join with LLMPapa:

A “vanilla analysis” of what Serino did was that he sabotaged the cover up grandly. He could only do so much, however, because if what he was doing was detected, corrective action would have been taken and made the case even more messed up than it already was.

One thing we know from the good books and movies made of real life situations, the “good cop” inside a corrupt police dept. is trapped in a living hell. A hell, where his only escape is to throw himself into the fire. (where, hereinafter all masculine references should be taken to refer to both sexes for the sake of brevity).

We also know that Secret Societies do exist and that they also reach into police departments as well as the political arenas. They can only be detected by keeping a close watch on the activities and relationships of the players/actors. They will not announce that they are members of a corrupt police gang, or a supremacist or other organization. In fact they will always deny it, because they know it is perceived as, and understood to be wrong. Which is exactly why they must conceal it.

That said, it is indeed troubling that GZ, who could walk the halls of the police station freely, speak with higher ups and have access almost “on demand”, should be finding support for his very strange story and the investigation thereof disrupted. Experienced LEO don’t do such things without reason.

You’re right I know Professor… and yeah, it does kinda sound a lil likea movie script… LOL! I guess I’m still in denial about Serino, but I just wanted sooo bad to believe that at least one of those officers was a good cop… SMH…. thats messed up..

I don’t believe any officer would tell a citizen to shoot someones dog.
The animal control officers I know in this area carry a laser baton and will use that to restrain a dog if necessay.
They would only use a gun as a last resort.

I found that story curious too because discharging a weapon in a neighborhood like that would be a crime in itself. In some places it’s called discharging a weapon in city limits. etc. And a charge of sorts I hope is leveled against Tugboat when’s he’s found guilty of murder.

Gladys said many things that disturb me, in particular: “show the photo of my son like that, in color, and play the tape, that tape in which he asks for help, in what many witnesses say is my son’s voice. Even Trayvon Martin’s father, Mr. Tracy Martin, says that it is my son’s voice. Show those two things together.”

1. I interpret, “show the photo of my son like that, in color”, as meaning, show the doctored photo, because it fits our version.

2. Gladys said, “that tape in which he asks for help”.
The person screaming was begging for his life and help, not asking. I would never say my son was asking for help. I would say “my son was begging for help!” Asking is to make a request. Then again maybe she meant to say “ask”, because that is what GZ did when the neighbor approached him, “Can you please call my wife,” Zimmerman reportedly asked him.”.

3. Gladys said, “in what many witnesses say is my son’s voice”. She pointed out what she thinks “many witnesses” said. However, Gladys confirms it’s not Jorge screaming, because she couldn’t bring herself to say it was Jorge screaming.

Finally, how does putting a doctored photo, combined with the 911 tape confirm it was Jorge? If anything, the picture of Trayvon’s lifeless body, covered with yellow tarp, coupled with the 911 tape, confirms it was Trayvon.

Gladys said, “But to be punched in the nose, to fall down to the ground, to have someone jump on you and hit you fiercely and bust your head open every time you try to get up,” Gladys must’ve forget, Trayvon did not have one drop of Jorge’s DNA on him. Gladys should think before she opens her mouth!

One does not scream and continue to fight. Screaming is done by the one who has ceased fighting. Thus, GZ having control of his gun, is akin to “continuing to fight”, his mind would be focused on the singular task of controlling the weapon and preparing to fire. So, he would not be screaming.

There are so MANY errors i.e. outright lies, half truths, misinformation and assumptions, in this interview and it would be hard to discern such if viewers were not fully informed or even if they bothered to fact check. This is the game the Zimmerman family, Defense team and supporters play i.e. say any old rubbish and hope it disseminates to the uninformed masses. Well, that isn’t going to work with us, that’s for sure.

With regard to the interview: Gladys seemed very rehearsed. Reading rather than hearing may have given an incorrect assumption. But, her words merely echo those of Junior in all of his most-recent interviews. What mother in their 50s would know – MMA Style, for example. She is merely repeating what she has been told. This interview proved pointless.

I see it as being normal. During the late 60’s and 70’s, kung fu movies were the rage, and MMA is actually the creation of Bruce Lee, who decided that it was best to become a potent unarmed fighter by mastering various styles of martial arts and combine them together. He labelled this philosophy and style as Jeet Kune Do. I am sure the people in their 50’s also lived during that era, and remained in love with martial arts, hence they would also follow MMA, as it is a modern sport adaption to Bruce Lee’s ideals and martial arts, and in fact, part of the idea was taken from the opening scene of Enter The Dragon.

I can’t answer that. I have no idea what I would know if I didn’t know it from the source I knew it from. I might have, I might not have, but the fact is I did so it is kind of a moot point. I mean logically, I would have had no reason to know if it wasn’t something my husband enjoyed (making fun of), but I have no idea what I would have known otherwise.

You become rehearsed when you rehearse the same lines from their story over and over again. The walk along the top of the T has long been proven inaccurate. The witnesses themselves all debunk that story.

lol- I’m another 50 yr old mother who knows what MMA is…but then again, I don’t have a husband telling me I can’t watch TV like Gladys did. Seems like she is from another era. Can’t be allowed to form an opinion and think for herself. Hubby or Jr tells here watch to say and what she is feeling.

She was estranged from Fogen and had no clue he owned a gun, much less, walk around in everyday life toting the thing to the grocery store and such. She must be so proud…even if it’s not “her kid”.

I noticed that BDLR said something to the Judge regarding discovery yesterday..something about this not being a Federal case, so he doesn’t have to give them everything. Can you please explain what he was talking about, and tell us exactly what he has to supply the defense with?

If it is determined that the photos of the killer moments after the shooting are doctored, I think this is huge for the defence. IAMAL, but, I would latch on to those photos for dear life. They could have been doctored to eliminate the blood-covered face and the wounds on the bad of his his made to look like mere scratches. We are looking at it from a prosecuting POV. But, defence can claim the opposite, if, in fact, the doctoring was performed by someone at the SPD.

I believe we will be hearing more about those photos somewhere down the road.

The photos are doctored. I dont know any bloody nose in the world that causes the dimensions of the bone structure of the whole face to drastically change, as well as the weight of an individual to lose at least 30 pounds, within 10 minutes of a bloody nose. Plus if you look closely, you can see that the head is cut out from another picture and pasted into the defense’s photoshopped picture. Lastly, if his face was all bloody like he claims, there is more the reason that Trayvon should have blood all over his hands and sleeves from splatter, and there is none at all. Besides, the chain of custody for that picture is off, so they can not even submit them anyways.

I do not feel Omara will even attempt to submit it because then the State will object and then he has to get embarrassed on national TV because any evidence hearings on what will be submitted will go through a validation process

I would think the prosecution would want the bloody nose photo in evidence. It shows how little blood there was on GZ’s face and how minor the injuries were, and may even show that the blood was not coming from GZ’s nostrils but from some tiny scratches on the tip of his nose. The photo could help a medical expert reconstruct what most likely happened to GZ’s face.

I don’t think anything medical about the fake foto will be discussed. If the prosecution allows it, it is strictly to show it is a fake, the only ones who had access to alter are are Wagner & the defense team and look at the depths of depravity they go to to get away with murder.

I doubt they could give hoot about the injury factor since they have 35 pictures that are documented taken in the police station.

I have not read the whole interview; nor have I listened to Mr. Top Expert Taaffe again. (I think that quote, “I have short-term vision” was about the last thing I wanted to hear from that buffoon.)

But look at this quote: “…but looking ahead, we need to make it clear that not only are we not racists, but the United States, and the whole world are watching us: as my mother said, ‘They even fooled the President.’ Racism in this country is a game that pays really well. Lots of people are looking to make a buck, and there’s a lot of money to be made by alleging racism. You don’t even have to prove it.”

Hmmm. “They” fooled the president? Into thinking what? He said the case should be investigated. “They” fooled him into thinking that if he had a son, that son would look like Trayvon Martin? How fooled can one person get!

And super-HMMMMMM for the “money to be made by alleging racism.” Hmmmmm. Who made the money off this murder? Hmmmm? And Robert Junior’s tour talking about white-hatred: so he wasn’t doing that for his poor brother’s reputation, but to “make money by alleging racism”?

Good going Professor. I’ve got two from China yesterday, probably party members searching for a blog they can approve of. The discussions here are probably too wide ranging for the taste of the People’s Republic.

wow that is so interesting!! i see my germs are the largest non-english speaking visitors here! and i’ve mentioned before- this case is very concerning to them, mostly because of investments and vacations. Florida is their little piece of heaven on earth (as well as other visitors but especially for germans) and they aren’t going to spend time and money in a place where little men with deadly weapons are allowed to run freely ( though out the state ) killing teenagers!

If there’s one thing that moves the government, it’s greed! And that greed must be satisfied above all. They won’t let GZ spoil their juice, If you know what i mean!

so i’ll say it again. GZ will NOT walk away from murdering Trayvon Martin!

Congratulations Professor! Your on your way! Your combination of thoughtful commentary and well written legal explanations is so valuable. Don’t forget to throw a bit of $ into the Professor’s hat. If we all pitch in a bit it will allow the Professor to keep instructing us!

No surprise. The whole world is watching this case. One has to wonder what they think when they read this blog (where we want only to expose the truth of this case) and then read the racist rantings and lies on the other blogs that support the murderer of Trayvon Martin.

Dave Knechel interviewed Frank Taaffe yesterday and posted a video of that interview. I’ve not received notification that he posted the video to his blog yet, and hope he doesn’t mind me sharing it here.

just an fyi – rosacea will do the same to men – many people thought that w.c. field had the proverbial ‘gin blossom’ nose or that bill clinton had one as well. not to say this is what is going on with taffe, but i try not to jump to conclusions in spite of his documented history with alcohol.

I’m not jumping to conclusions, his nose appears to be expanded in proportions to his head and it seems to have undergone some rounding. Turning red is the next step and I do believe he will get there. It already seems to appear that capillaries in his nose are bursting. He has been called a drunkard and we find him driving drunk again in his driving records. Should I wait for more evidence? He isn’t the first drunk I’ve ever seen.

lonnie – knowing frank’s history, i am willing to make an exception for him. i was only pointing out that what many people assume to be a sign of a drunk (large, red, bulbous nose with broken capillaries) is more often a sign of untreated rosacea. i see other signs of it on frank as well – the flushed cheeks.

Thanks, fauxmccoy. Too many people believe that a red, swollen nose is a sign of being a drunk. There’s no such thing as “drinkers nose.” It’s rosacea, it affects the whole face (but most gruesomely the nose), and it can happen to people who never touch a drop. True, it can be aggravated by alcohol, and by sunlight, certain foods, etc.

thanks, pooh. i had to learn a lot about rosacea when i was diagnosed about 8 years ago. for the most part, i just have to deal with overly rosy cheeks and flushing, which can be controlled. i am having a harder time trying to get my younger brother to take it seriously because although it is more rare in males, it can be far more disfiguring. i appreciate your comments on this matter because i know that many men with this condition have to deal with the misconception of being heavy drinkers. i think it is established that FT has issues with alcohol, but his rudolf red cheeks indicate to me that he likely suffers from rosacea as well.

Thanks for the video. I do wish there wasn’t music added. The music makes it hard to hear what’s said. This is a comment for all the videos where the primary purpose is to listen to what people are saying.

Malisha has the real numbers and those so-called burglaries are probably more like domestic property issues. Like when people dump each other and take stuff they consider theirs, and the other one gets home and calls the cops to complain! Or they could be neighbors complaining someone stole my water hose! Or it could be teenagers creeping into neighbors houses when the owner is gone and eating their Doritos! ( i used to do that when i was babysitting, my mom never bought chips and stuff LOL)

But 400 robberies sounds OUTRAGOUS, that’s like 1.3 a day!!But no, that’s way more than what happens here in a major city! Think about how many times you’ve ever been robbed or even know people who’ve been robbed that much? 200 some apartments there. So that means someone gets robbed 2X a DAY at least a few times a year!!!LOLOL that’s the worst neighborhood in the world!!!! crazy!!

I personally have only called the police 1 time in my life. And it was on my own brother for stealing jewelry. If that neighborhood has so much crime, they need their own police station!

LOL… Because the NeN call is probably going to be played for the jury, the SP needs to make use of GZ’s: “There’s been some robberies in the neighborhood”, door opening remark, to address this issue. While GZ wants people to think he was living in a terror zone, in truth there was no need for any armed patrols at all.

@Tzar, There were much nicer Condos as well as some stores around that *gated community* so, why would anyone want to concentrate on stealing from those who owned their homes and those who were renters there? also, how did they know that all of these crimes were committed by all black males? I for one still say that Zimmerman and Taaffe, along with Osterman were trying to rid RTL of the few AA that were living there. Osterman is the one who came up with the home invasion lies for them. seeing that he worked in LE he knew that, they would be believed if they reported a lot of break ins by young black males. Zimmerman even accused a 16 year old AA kid of stealing his bicycle. SPD was called and, they did nothing about him blaming an innocent kid for theft. these people make me sick as hell and, I will be so glad when this is over and he is put away.

“IMO, what Frank does is verify that GZ profiled Trayvon. He supports the prosecution’s affidavit.”

I agree. GZ had determined that Trayvon was a “criminal” who had been burglarizing homes – and states so by “these *ssholes, they always get away.” He didn’t “think” Trayvon *might* have been one of “them,” he didn’t question that he may have been, he said “These *ssholes, they always get away. He had already made that determination.

And for what? Sounds like they were having burglaries while there was a patrol, still having them now – so there was NO need for anyone to have gotten shot. It sure didn’t change anything.

But my point was, I totally agree. GZ proved it with his own words and Frank verified it.

Xena, it may be true that the crimes in that neighborhood of which they speak were committed by blacks. But that doesn’t mean that every black in that neighborhood committed/commits, or will commit a crime – and that is the thinking GZ used. He – in his own words – decided that because the crimes were committed by black people, this black person must have or was about to commit a crime. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF PROFILING!!!!

Sorry, but walking in the rain is not suspicious. Walking in the rain leisurely is not suspicious. Walking in the rain leisurely looking about is not suspicious.

But GZ made it obvious that walking in the rain IF YOU ARE BLACK is suspicious. Walking in the rain leisurely IF YOU ARE BLACK is suspicious. Walking in the rain leisurely looking about IF YOU ARE BLACK is suspicious. And in his own words – “THESE *ssholes, THEY always get away.” Even without the effing *oons, he has made it obvious.

I feel VERY certain that had I been walking leisurely in the rain looking about, I would not have looked suspicious. And I think it is obvious why. I am an old white woman. But there is NO doubt in my mind whatsoever that had it been my son walking leisurely in the rain looking about, he would have looked suspicious to GZ.

And I know someone here disagreed with me the other day, but I really do feel that if he “looked suspicious to GZ,” he had every right to call the police. If he looked suspicious to THEM, they could have handled it. Police are allowed to stop someone for reasonable suspicion. Police may briefly detain a person if they have reasonable suspicion that the person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity. They are trained and experienced in determining reasonable suspicion. I have no doubt that race plays a HUGE part in their determination too, because they can be just as racist as the next person, but my point is, GZ had every right to make that determination. It is not illegal to be racist. It is only illegal to act upon it. Calling the police was not illegal, even if it was racist, but even if it wasn’t racist (which you will never convince me otherwise), he is NOT a police officer and there is a reason why police tell individuals – and it is written into neighbor watch programs – not to follow or detain, just watch and observe (and that does NOT mean you need to get out of your vehicle, just report what you observed) – and THIS kind of thing is the VERY reason why. GZ is a poster child for why you do NOT do anything more than your right and even duty as a citizen than to call and report.

The idea that somehow he should be a poster child for SYG and gun rights is absurd when he did everything one should NOT do.

But GZ made it obvious that walking in the rain IF YOU ARE BLACK is suspicious.

GZ also made it obvious that he lacks training to profile suspicious people. It was Sunday evening. NO ONE looks for a house to break into on Sunday evening when there is a major sporting event on tv where the occupants and neighbors might be home. NO ONE cases houses during the rain while walking — they need a get-a-way car.

Trayvon didn’t have as much as a flashlight on him, while GZ had TWO. If cops were looking for suspicious people that night, they would have noticed GZ before Trayvon.

“He didn’t “think” Trayvon *might* have been one of “them,” he didn’t question that he may have been, he said “These *ssholes, they always get away. He had already made that determination”

OMG. until now, i just couldn’t conceive or concede that GZ actually *honestly thought* Trayvon was a criminal. You guys have said you hear GZ interrogating him while he’s holding Trayvon down. I swear i thought he targeted Trayvon because he kinda just wanted to get someone- obviously someone he perceived as disposable, but more about being a bully and bigot..not because he thought he was really a criminal.. because I don’t see how Trayvon could look criminal-ish. That’s not what a criminal looks like and how could ANYONE think otherwise? He’s so stupid to think he knows what a criminal looks like and that it’s just good enough that he thinks that!!!?? unbelievable

I have said for some time that Fogen & his posse were on a mission to be the hero. He never thought this would get past the “You’re our hero, here’s the keys to the city and there will be a parade in your honor Sunday” phase.

Then along came the wrong victim “St. Trayvon” Now it hits the fan as the Martin family didn’t just roll over.

They also have loads of proof that Fogenhats does not know what he is talking about, considering all his run ins in that neighborhood, especially, the one where he stalked and terrorized a little boy, whom he accused of stealing a bike, and it turned out that he did not, and the police verified it

Absolutely, this whole thing is about an armed vigilante patrolling the neighborhood, deciding who was a criminal, and eagerly awaiting his chance to arrest them, or shoot them if they didn’t comply.

Obviously George had worked himself into a lather, long before this took place. Which is why I feel that those head wounds were prepared before he left home, since they are key to his being able to be sure that he could show that he had been attacked, while doing only innocent things.

While he is displaying evidence that he was attacked, there is no evidence that he actually was. All we have is his claim, which is not supported by physical evidence, even the wounds do not come from the actions he claims.

The dried blood observed, is evidence that the bleeding predates him leaving his car! If he were going to track and hold someone, he could only do so, if he had a claim that some crime had been committed first.

LMAO I kind of love Frank in that, his big mouth gets the defendant Fogenhats in loads of trouble

Example is Fogenhats claims he was not targeting Trayvon because he was black

then along comes Taffe, on TV, blaming loads of crimes on blacks, and says that is the reason Fogenhats got suspicious because of the blacks allegedly committing crimes, then says that Trayvon should have answered Fogenhats properly

Besides, Taffe is going to get in trouble for conspiracy to harass Deedee and intimidate that witness

OMG I listened to Taaffe. He practically said, “We should really have let George continue to shoot kids here because now, since he’s not allowed to shoot kids here, there are more burglaries. At least if Black burglars were afraid to come in here we’d have fewer burglaries and if George were still free to shoot anybody he didn’t like, they’d figure they had a 50% chance of being shot if they even came here. Furthermore, if the burglaries are being done by someone white — oh forget it, whites are criminals, Blacks are.” OMG Taaffe complained that shooting some Black kid who was NOT A BURGLAR did not work to stop burglaries?

Are these people really that stupid? Is it even POSSIBLE?

If the cure for crime was random killings of people who are not committing any crimes, I think our country would have all its problems solved!

I am positive that the statistics he spouts are lies.
I am going to do another FOIA and find out the real facts.
I am going to find a journalist — maybe from YoungTurks — who will really sink teeth into the “true story of the ‘high crime neighborhood’ and the Taaffe-delusions of the RTL.

There were only three actual home invasion burglaries at RTL in the year before Trayvon Martin was killed; I have the police reports to prove that. The “on average once per month and all done by young black burglars” idea is a fiction and a deliberate fiction. Taaffe is so used to being able to spread his falsehoods that he doesn’t hesitate. I’ll report back when I have the data.

Burglaries, or not – should killing someone be an appropriate action in response to stealing a 56″ TV? A 60″ TV? A 100″ TV?

More specifically, should killing someone who isn’t even witnessed stealing (or even carrying!) ANY size TV or other allegedly stolen goods be an appropriate action because there have been other instances of burglaries?

Back in the day, a person’s life was considered more valuable than another person’s property. Has our societal stance reversed that equation completely now – even if the person’s life is not at all connected with any certainty to some other person’s loss of property? (I’d still be troubled even if it was connected, thouth.)

It terrifies me to realize that maybe it actually has. I must be getting old.

@groans. The Illinois legislature is currently discussing conceal carry. My son and I were talking about it just several hours ago. He has 12 yrs in the military, is comfortable around guns, knows how to use them, but is against conceal carry. What he said, for me, hit the proverbial nail on the head; i.e.,
“From what I’ve heard, it seems like people want to carry concealed guns so they can kill people they get into fights with or people they don’t like.”

The sad thing is that the answer is “yes” in Houston. The comments after any shooting for any kind of theft indicates that the death penalty is appropriate, as per many redneck backwards Houstonians. I tell you, GZ would feel quite at home here.

The suspect is a black male? So, when this black male was “stealing” the tv nobody called the police? Surely to move a televison that size all by yourself would take a major effort and time, making this “black male” easy to, if not catch certainly to find. This wife beating, white knuckeled alcoholic, who’s home is in foreclosure is delirious with insanity.

This was daylight too right? So Frank says a black man brazenly got a 56 or 60 inch TV out of someone’s condo and carried it up the street in broad daylight. Was he running or skipping with the TV? Sounds like another “super-power” black male like Trayvon.

I wonder if Frank was under the influence when it happened or when he told the story to the interviewer.

The suspect is a black male? So, when this black male was “stealing” the tv nobody called the police? Surely to move a televison that size all by yourself would take a major effort and time, making this “black male” easy to, if not catch certainly to find. This wife beating, white knuckeled alcoholic, who’s home is in foreclosure is delirious with insanity.

Seldom does a burglar come into a home without knowing what is inside and worth stealing. Whether it’s casual talk at a bar, having company over, or even store clerks and delivery persons, someone generally knows what is in that house that makes their time worthwhile.

xena: “Seldom does a burglar come into a home without knowing what is inside and worth stealing.”

I would set my goals a little lower than to try to steal a 56-60 inch TV in broad daylight – or even at night for that matter. Stick with smaller electronics or jewelry.

I thought Frank’s TV story was embellished for dramatic effect of how brazen these black burglars are at the Retreat and it’s no wonder Chorge had to kill Trayvon. Who knows, Trayvon may have stolen a big screen TV if it were not for Chorge killing him.

this video is a crack up if you ask me. the zimpologists on other sites claim that crime has completely stopped now that trayvon is gone. i always said it had more to do with gz being out of commission.

If that is true, then it begs looking into those guys who, just happened to show up at the 711 that night in the rain. I wonder if any of them, lived any where around, where they had a view of Rinehart Road and/or the shopping center? Did they call Osterman or FT or GZ or even John? Were they the friends of Burgess? Or, could they have been police informants?

Poor Frank. I think his mind is muddled by years of alcohol abuse and he doesn’t realize how damning his interviews are for Chorge pointing out all the BLACK burglars that frequent The Retreat. Do you think Chorge knew about all the BLACK burglars and that is why he profiled Trayvon?

Strange that Frank granted an interview to a non-media affiliated person and even stranger that he was at the courthouse. Was he actually in the courtroom?

I thought that I saw someone in a white shirt who looked like Taaffe in the audience. I can’t remember which of the 7 or 8 videos Trent Sawyer posted, it was in. But there’s a guy in a white shirt, the kind we usually see Taaffe wearing, who enters and takes a seat near the back of the court, to our left as we look at the screen.

One thing I find that’s pretty consistent in suicide cases, is that the parents don’t have a very good relationship with the child.

We had a suicide here in NYC where a girl in college ran up the stairs to the roof, while pulling off her clothing and saying “don’t tell my father”, we don’t know what it was she didn’t want him to know. but we found out that her father was a psychologist worthy of some note. I had to wonder if he was using his skills, in an effort to keep her on the “straight and narrow”, instead he had probably made her feel trapped in some way. But that’s just my guess.

Oh wait a minute! Taaffe is here saying that the killing of just one Black kid was not enough to prevent burglary in the RTL neighborhood. We need more, apparently, to do the trick.

Because there were a bunch of burglaries done by Blacks.
Then there was the killing of just one Black kid (who was unconnected with any of the aforementioned burglaries and who was provably in ANOTHER CITY HOURS AWAY when the other burglaries occurred) by a “neighborhood watch” volunteer.
Then there were a bunch more burglaries done by Blacks.

So…

Either killing a non-burglarizing Black kid was not an effective method of reducing neighborhood burglaries

OR

Killing JUST ONE NON-BURGLARIZING BLACK kid was not an effective method of reducing neighborhood burglaries.

THUS,

Either…

We need to stop killing non-burglarizing Black kids

OR

We need to kill MORE non-burglarizing Black kids.

I don’t know which conclusion is true because the sample used in the experiment was not large enough.

Frankie is so dense, he doesn’t realize that those guys with those gold chains, and diamond grills, are mult-millionaires. With clothing line, sneaker lines, drinks and any other entrepreneurial ideas that they come up with that make money.

That is what I thought. Might be more than a bit awkward to carry a TV that size. Don’t know what to think of Frank’s story other than he seems to miss his armed crime-stopper buddy Chorge to help stop all those black burglars/robbers.

GZ needs to send a memo to all his wannabe supporters and tell them shut up, you are not doing yourself and me any favors. Believe me everything that Taaffe says will be used against him in court. I could just see Bernie grinding him up with what he said on that video. And on HLN and on every other interview he’s done.

i was always skeptical about frank leaving his doors unlocked (he and gz mentioned it more than once). i figured they did it deliberately while keeping ‘watch’ from the clubhouse. the thefts at frank’s house just always screamed ‘insurance scam’ to me.

He brings out points about Baez being recommended to GZ. Something occurred to me. I wonder if the Latino community would show more or less attention to this case if GZ had chosen a Latino attorney? Also, since the majority of the public believed that Casey Anthony was guilty, would they also believe in GZ’s guilt and Baez being the only attorney able to defend him?

I think Mrs. Zimmerman has not looked at the evidence dumps. She is grabbing onto what she hears that supports her son. She just isn’t believing anything else even if it’s presented to her but it probably isn’t. She has enough on her plate without having to deal with the stuff that her son really did the deed. Let’s hope she does a better job of dealing with the prosecution’s case during the trial. She just doesn’t know it now.

GZ:In my family, we’re proud of our Afro-Peruvian heritage. My kids know their aunts and uncles; they know our roots, and my roots aren’t with non-Hispanic whites. My roots are Afro-Peruvian. So they have been brought up, not just here at home as a family, but in school, not to notice peoples’ skin color. I call them “my kids” because they are part of my family, because skin color doesn’t mean anything to me either.

Gladys has Afro-Peruvian roots (according to Gladys). She calls the Thug and Junior her kids – I call them “my kids” because they are part of my family, because skin colour doesn’t mean anything to me either.

@SourthernGirl2, if that remark by Gladys Zimmerman was really true*, why is it that she encourage her kids to marry *whites* as a means to gain status in life? if this woman has any black blood coursing through her lying veins, she wouldn’t be encouraging her kids or others in her family to marry whites. there are success stories in every race of people as well as failures. this woman is not fooling anybody but those who are racist just like she is. I’m black/white and native american and, I am proud of who I am and where I come from.

My thoughts exactly! Gladys is lying her behind off. If she encouraged the kids to marry white then she’s ashamed of who she is and not proud of her heritage. There isn’t an ounce of honesty nor decency in these people.

The older generations of one side of my family were mixed Anglo, black, and NA, Many who are gone now were racist. They felt that to be Euro/white was culturally superior, not unlike Gladys. It was perplexing to me as I grew up to observe people who basically looked like fair Indians insist they were white. They should have been proud of who they really were. The youngest generation of both sides of my family are now a rainbow of everything imaginable and proud of it, thank goodness.

For the first two months of this year, at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, the Sanford police logged 51 calls for service. Half were just people requesting information. The others included eight burglaries, two bike thefts and three simple assaults

In the beginning, the Zimmermans took a position that they are not racists as though to gain the support of Blacks. With Junior’s reverse racism statements, they seek another audience — White racist bigots. Now, they reach out to the Hispanic audience. Could they avoid Asians because of GZ’s harassment of his Middle Eastern co-worker?

Nothing they’ve said there has any impact on the case, except to say that they are in possession of remarks, made to them by GZ, that repeat the story that has already been proven false.

They’re still talking about an assault that is nowhere in evidence at all. As if Trayvon could hit GZ repeatedly and not take dna evidence away with his hands, etc.. They don’t seem to be aware that the only witness who said “MMA style blows” has recanted that statement. So, to be fair, the station needs to have someone on to give the other side of the story.

They can go on and on. It doesn’t help GZ or them for that matter. I don’t know how the Hispanic community are affected by this case. I don’t think anything was mentioned on the spanish stations when the media got a hold of it around March. I could be wrong, but I doubt very much they reported on it because it was being reported as GZ as being “White”. Don’t see how they would start running with it, until they sated saying he’s HISPANIC. Then the hoopla about him being half this half that. By then the damage was done. So for the family to try and shop their story on Hispanic channels is a little late in the game. Sorry, no soup for you!

IMO, the Zimmerman’s current campaign to Latinos disregards a very important reality to most Latinos. America is filled with Latinos who have experienced racial prejudice and profiling. GZ’s situation does not rank in the 10 most important things to the Latino community.

The next time GZ’s supporters, (in their attempts to make his arrest reverse racism), bellyache about there being a Black History month, Miss Black America, MLK holiday, NAACP, and Rev. Sharpton (advocating for GZ’s arrest), they should consider what that communicates to the Latino community.

Thank you, Blushedbrown. As it concerns addressing Latinos, the Zimmermans would come across better if their sir name was Hispanic. To a racially prejudiced White HR Director with resumes from a person with the last name Zimmerman, and the last name Gonzalez, which resume is most likely to automatically go into the round file? This is something that the Zimmermans have apparently not considered when addressing the Latino community.

It would be like having Carol Channing address the Black community on injustices to her family.

The recantation of the “MMA style punches” was very humorous. It was like, “I said MMA because it has two M’s in it. One M stands for Maybe and the other M stands for Maybe Not. And then there’s an A which stands for ‘anything.’ So if I said anything, it was that Maybe there were punches and Maybe not. Anyway it was dark and Anyway I couldn’t really see and Anyway I think they had a fight. Kinda. Maybe. Maybe not.”

Here’s another example of the hypocrisy amongst fogen’s supporters. In any other circumstance, they’d be slamming Gladys for her poor English and “failure to assimilate” after nearly 40 years in “English speaking” ‘murica.

I am geo blocked from the video..every website informs “the uploader has not provided video to your country”. Can someone provide a link allowing me a way around that ?

There were only three real burglaries in the year before Trayvon Martin was killed. None involved violence or weapons. The rest of the “burglaries” were not real house-invasion burglaries. THAT is the real media-spin-error in this case, from the get-go.

I am still having trouble finding any journalist to cover that gigantic story. I’d like to find one of the fired NBC folks and run it past them. I would think this was a huge story: WRONG INFORMATION PUT OUT AT THE BEGINNING AND QUOTED 1,000 TIMES AND NEVER CORRECTED, NOBODY FIRED, NOBODY APOLOGIZED, NOBODY SUED, NO ATTENTION PAID.

Miami based Univision is the Spanish language version of fauxx nooze,. That’s why jr and Sra zimmerman chose that venue for yet another teevee *interview*.
and a word from me to sra zimmerman…..tu eres una familia de mentirosas y mal que le pese . (You are a family of liars and evil)

I think Robert, Gladys and “friends) are on a PR campaign, protesting way too much about Chorge not being racist. I also think they are clinging to that obviously doctored color photo to prove Chorge was justified in killing Trayvon.

Which makes me suspicious why they are bothering with the “Chorge is not a racist” campaign.

The doctored photo of Chorge’s injuries they are embracing as justification implies that a 17-year-old black male was a thug and Chorge was correct for profiling him and killing him with no remorse and no regrets.

Sorry but the more the Zimmerman family speaks (coupled with the O’Mara In Session interview) the more I wish disaster and humiliation for the family and the attorneys in that they are forced to listen to evidence that is not part of their spiel on their PR tour and after the trial will slither back to where they came from prior to Chorge murdering Trayvon.

I agree. The humiliation will be great when each and every point she mentioned in her spiel is proven wrong by actual forensic science. MMA style? Already recanted. No injuries actually means Martin never laid a hand on GZ. Yeah, she’s GZs mom, but she first have to be such a complete idiot.

cielo62: “Yeah, she’s GZs mom, but she first have to be such a complete idiot.”

Chorge is an idiot and raised by Gladys and enabled by her. She continues to enable him by excusing the killing of a black teen who her son profiled. I think a lot of excuses by Gladys is so she does not have to face the fact she raised a killer. (Sorry if I am breaking the professor’s rules.)

Chorge, his family and his defense team are nothing short of disgusting blaming Trayvon for his own death and inflicting further pain on Trayvon’s family.

Lurking and preying with deadly intent is the mark of a monster! A human, concerned with abating crime, would have identified them self. Thus, they’d have treated the “suspicious” person as a human being with rights. This was more like a toad, lurking in wait for a fly.

1. Immediately, passionately, sincerely but as unoffensively as possible apologize to Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin.

2. Say not one word ever about the case or about the legal stuff, but simply that I am a mother, and I grieve for the mother and father of a dead boy-child.

3. Go to confession and tell a priest in confidence that I don’t know what I have done wrong in my life but whatever it was, I must atone for it, and don’t know how to begin, because the offense must be greater than my ability to understand it.

4. Tell Fogen that no matter what happens, I love him and I will support him; I will never abandon him; I will visit him in prison every single minute that I am permitted to do so; I will send him all the money I can afford to send him for books, hobby materials, decent clothing, and whatever else he can get while incarcerated, no matter what else happens in life. And that when he comes out I will take him back and help him in any way I can.

5. Ask my other son Robert Jr. to please stop getting on television because it is unseemly, when you have a relative who has killed someone and ignited a firestorm of protest, to be out there advertising the idea that you are being victimized. I would try to convince him that “out-victiming” a dead man is disrespectful and that “IF we are victims we will be dignified about it, at least.”

6. Go on the lecture circuit to promote gun control and say to every audience I can find who will let me speak, for free: “I wish my son had never had a gun; if he never had a gun he would not be charged with murder now.”

@ Malisha – I agree. I would think that’s what ANY mother in her situation would do, too.

Furthermore, in my view, every interview the family seeks and/or provides gets more rote and rehearsed sounding than the preceding ones. They seem focused only on working in one or more of some list of “talking points.” And as a result, they just don’t come across as “real” – either as people or as family.

Gladys is spewing everything that GZ, RZ Sr., RZ Jr., & MOM have fed to her….as if she were reading from a script that they have written.
“……..to have someone jump on you and hit you fiercely and bust your head open every time you try to get up……”
Did I miss something? Did it look like GZ’s head was busted open in the pictures? Even in the doctored photo, all I saw were scratches….no brain matter exposed.

@ Malisha……Very well said, and absolutely correct…IF…you are a person with one or more of the following: ethics, morals, decency, compassion, empathy and common sense……all of which, I believe, are lacking in the Zimmerman family. Sometimes, no matter how hard we try to instill these important values into our children, they will ultimately do what they want….nature vs. nurture. But like you said, we have to be decent human beings and do what is right. Had she (and the rest of the family) done that, I believe that the world would have had a more sympathetic view tword them instead of one of anger.

All I can say is, wait until she sees the trial and hears the truth about the evidence she cites. I guess she’ll then begin to question why the judge is letting the prosecutor say all these things about her son, eh? One thing’s for certain, after the trial, all the national punditry world will be seeking interviews (for free of course) with these vocal family members.

I can just see Dr. Phil, licking his lips to confront them with each piece of refuted evidence and tearing into their claims. Unless Hannity beats him to the punch. Even Oprah may do a special.

Two sides they are up on youtube an I think axiom amessia..Ive listened to them.Its like he is reading from a script he uses the same verbage over an over..A guy looking through trash cans .The defendant told disspacher he didnt know what his deal was ect there were other similaritys besides all his calls are regarding black males..Oh an he starts them all with.We ve had a lot of breakins recently….

I listened to them a long time ago, actually, so I’m familiar with the repetitive language, but sort of wondered out loud this morning about about the specific accent and slurring. I don’t recall that his voice and accent are the same in other NEN calls. His voice in the courtroom and on Hannity are much different – not as strong a S. accent and no slurring. Does he play good old boy for the cops? Was he impaired by drugs or alcohol during the pursuit and shooting?

I agree Two Sides. His speech is slower and more slurred in the NEN call than in any other recordings of his voice I’ve heard. He also struggles getting some information out: the address of the clubhouse, the location of his truck, etc. I do think this suggests he was impaired. It wouldn’t be his psych meds, as neither Adderal nor Benzos result in slurred speech. Alcohol not only results in speech patterns of the sort GZ displays in the NEN call, but it makes many people more aggressive and confrontational. IIRC alcohol is a contributing factor in the majority of violent crimes committed in this country. So my guess is GZ had had a few bumps before going out asshole hunting.

whonoze: “It wouldn’t be his psych meds, as neither Adderal nor Benzos result in slurred speech. Alcohol not only results in speech patterns of the sort GZ displays in the NEN call, but it makes many people more aggressive and confrontational.”

Isn’t it advised not to drink alcohol with benzos and/or Adderall? Not sure if Chorge was drinking at all though other than some memory problems which may not be valid and a degree of slurred speech. It would be interesting to know if Chorge did drink on a regular basis and what Chorge was doing earlier in the day before he set off for “grocery shopping at Target” on Sunday evening in the rain with his gun. Did he ever mention where ShelLie was since he said ShelLie usually accompanied him.

I believe Fogen was in some kind of altered state that night, whether altered chemically or by his own out-of-wack neurotransmitters and neuro chemistry. I believe that by the time he killed Trayvon Martin he was literally “high” on his feeling of frustrated and disrespected authority and obsessed with WINNING. So he won. He needed a gun to win, but he did so, his way.

On the other thread I believe there was a comment related to the deposition of either Carter or Santiago, to the effect that one of them said to the other something like “We’re F***ed” or “They’re gonna F*** us up the a55” or words to that effect, WHEN THEY FOUND OUT THAT FOGEN WAS CHARGED.

My take on that is as follows: The cops were probably all assured, from Serino on down and laterally and all the way up, that they would have no problems and would never be held accountable if they just fell into line and went along with “no evidence that Fogen’s story is not true.” They all had to toe that line in order for it to come out all right, and I believe they were all assured that ONLY IF THEY BROKE RANKS were they going to be in hot water. Either Lee or Wolfinger would have given this marching order.

That all would depend on Fogen never being charged and never being exposed to the possibility of conviction.

When they realized that they could not longer claim the absolutely defense of “we did right; there was no way we could have charged this guy with anything,” they were scared. My guess is that Tim Smith would be the most scared because he had probably done the most actual identifiable corrupt acts. Oh, except for Lee himself and Wolfinger himself, both of whom have already fallen. But so long as Fogen was charged and the charge stood, the rest of the cops were exposed, and could be thrown under the cross-town bus, hung out to dry on Mama Mahaney’s clothes line, or otherwise, as they so delicately put it, “effed up the a.”

Malisha states: I believe Fogen was in some kind of altered state that night, whether altered chemically or by his own out-of-wack neurotransmitters and neuro chemistry. I believe that by the time he killed Trayvon Martin he was literally “high”…

I agree Malisha…Recently, some NFL players were suspended for taking large amounts of Adderall. They say taking the drug in high dosage is like being on cocaine; the drug “provide extra energy and concentration”. Adderall is a schedule II drug so it is additive. IMHO the killer of Trayvon Martin was “high” from the Adderall that night. That is why he was able to make sure he did not shot his hand and was able to notice witnesses while Trayvon was supposedly beating him. Also, If we look at his photo-shopped picture vs the picture taken at the SPD, look at his eyes. His eyes are extremely widened, more alert, pupils are dilated compared to SPD pix.

I’m under the impression that Tugboat was supposedly a recovered and recovering alcoholic and that alcohol, as JM says, doesn’t mix too well with his prescribed meds, if he was indeed taking them as prescribed at the time.

Malisha, that’s really scary stuff, the cops playing along with their superiors’ line. Knowing that this may have happened is bad enough, but knowing that some were not only willing play but also fighting to continue the cover-up makes me feel nauseated.

He is clearly in a different state than in any on his other calls we have, much more exited and on edge:

Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh
you go straight in, don’t turn, and make a left. Shit he’s running.

He’s highly irritated with Sean at that point, why does he not understand him, he should understand he has no time for him since “his suspect” will move on. What sense does it make to give him the precise location?

Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?
Dispatcher: Okay,

We do not have his second 02/02/2012 call, when he calls back to correct the location of the “suspect” with the bomber hat and whatever he likes to describe as pajama pants. In this context he pretends to have prevented a burglary, but he cannot really prove it since it was Taaffe himself who had left door and windows open, thus it was nothing the bomber-hat-suspect, he claimed was Burgess who committed a burglary a couple of days later, had done to the house.

It’s at least partly the close ranks and stand up to the world reaction of many dysfunctional families. Can’t entirely fault them for that as it’s embarassing and difficult to do anything else. Hardly anyone feels comfortable about airing their dirty laundry.

TSTAS: “Can’t entirely fault them for that as it’s embarassing and difficult to do anything else. Hardly anyone feels comfortable about airing their dirty laundry.”

It seems the more they talk the more people are aware of their dirty laundry and unanswered questions. I would think Gladys would want a lower profile after what has been written about her. Not sure if it was in police statement by Mark Osterman or his book, but it would be interesting to hear her comments about the accusation she beat Chorge.

Sorry I have no pity for any of them. Had they kept a low profile I may feel differently.

in the Osterman interrogation but especially in the one with his former girl friend.

I doubt there is much dirty laundry in the Zimmerman family, besides maybe, as GZ’s former girl friend suggests to me, that the marriage of Gladys may have been a marriage of convenience. With an absent father for much of GZ’s childhood. If reports in this context are correct.

Unfortunately, I do not think Fogen feels shame. He should, but his emotional reaction genes are damaged. I think he grew up in a family where he was abused and blamed and he adopted a persona that is not guilty of anything. “Not Guilty Not Guilty Not Guilty” is his personal “drummer’s drum beat” and he lives by it. Whatever he does, he automatically blesses and adopts as “right and good and proper” and that is why he has “no regrets” and has the nerve to call the killing of an unarmed kid “god’s plan.” It is a fatal combination of arrogance and ignorance.

That Fogen’s family didn’t know he had a weapon tells me a lot about family dynamics and there are too many implications for me to list right now. And most aren’t particularly healthy, though some are neutral. Just sayin’.

Jr stated back in April he hadn’t seen nor talked to Fogen in 10 years. That one comment speaks volumes.

He actually admitted it? To who?

Someone brought it up that RZ Jr and Chorge were estranged after the Piers Morgan interview but the question was never answered by RZ Jr and I believed he hedged going off in another tangential direction.

It does beg the question why they weren’t in touch doesn’t it. Did he explain?

I think it’s because fogens family turned their back on him after finding out he was molesting his cousin. They were ashamed of him and wanted him to disappear from the family events

I agree. Also, I think they came forward now because they don’t want Fogen to spill the beans about how he was sexually abused. There’s a good chance that Momma Zim’s ignorance about homosexuality caused her to encourage GZ to not be gay like his older brother.

“I think it’s because fogens family turned their back on him after finding out he was molesting his cousin. They were ashamed of him and wanted him to disappear from the family events”

I’m not sure that makes sense. It’s been a while since what she said about the molestation became public, and I haven’t looked back at it, so there’s a chance I’m remembering wrong. But, I thought that she said that adults in the family were aware of the molestation at the time, and didn’t take it seriously.

The victim and her family, when this was first made public, stated that Fogen was banned from all family get together s and there was never a denial. Since the Fogenhats make stuff up and state everything said about him is a false narrative, why did this one go untouched.

The lack of a serious denial campaign coupled with what they do normally tells me this is all true.