ftaBy eliminating this special preference, we'll go a long way toward ensuring that those that earn their wealth in the oil industry will be subject to the same taxes as the rest of us." --Ronald Reagan

I guess I can see how back then, petroleum was seen as a glorious and relatively new industry that made a lot of revolutionary technologies, transportation and manufacturing possible, as well as being a major strategic component in World Wars. It was still corporate welfare, don't get me wrong, but I can see how it was culturally acceptable, and of course conservatards today still cling to that obsolete sense of glory and patriotism. Maybe in 100 years we'll be biatching about subsidies for Big Nanotube or some shiat like that when the next superior thing is on the horizon.

Yankees Team Gynecologist:I guess I can see how back then, petroleum was seen as a glorious and relatively new industry that made a lot of revolutionary technologies, transportation and manufacturing possible, as well as being a major strategic component in World Wars. It was still corporate welfare, don't get me wrong, but I can see how it was culturally acceptable, and of course conservatards today still cling to that obsolete sense of glory and patriotism. Maybe in 100 years we'll be biatching about subsidies for Big Nanotube or some shiat like that when the next superior thing is on the horizon.

if oil was found today, republicans would currently be pro coal and hate the oil. republicans, and democrats do not have any actual convictions. they just listen to their propaganda machines and regurgitate it. an ACTUAL conservative would be %100 against oil subsidies. Of course they would also be anti sheriff Joe and military, but we know how that goes.

CujoQuarrel:You do realize that they would just raises prices don't you?

No, They would continue to charge what the market will bear. the only relation between "cost of business" and "price" is "profit margin". What they MAY do is move their business where it costs less to do work (but they won't change the price for that either).

If we just redirected the subsidies from traditional fossil fuels alone, we could replace coal, oil and natural gas in 10 years (for electrical production) at 101 Billion a year, and probably have enough left over to build the infrastrucuture to start replacing it in terms of electric vehicle surface biofuel, algal, water recycling and other methods to have cleaned up the mess America made over the past 60 years making itself a superpower.Then with the 3.5 trillion we would have saved the US over that same 10 years not having to support the middle east, or defend all of the water ways to get our energy/food supplies, we could rebuild our cities so that local and municipalities wouldn't have to serve, water/electricity/sewage, provide and regulate 100 square mile cities for the top 100 population cities, they could be condensed down to 10 square mile cities, with 95% of the city being new and spacious using the best and safe but much less expensive time consuming construction techniques than even the most recent building boom in the 80's used.Finally with the 15 Trillion that we'd save as a nation over the next 10 years, in 2033, we'd be debt free, have doubled our economy to 30 Trillion a year and we could then work towards getting the rest of the world to catch up.If the trend spread, and fertility rates continued to fall as projected, humanity could be stablized by 2050 at around 8.5 to 9 Billion and the standard of living for all could continue to rise, while climate reverting back to where it was in the 1980's, instead of continuing to "snowball" upwards into threatening areas.

It really could occur if we made the shift in emphasis in energy policy from below ground sources, to above ground regional/local sources, and some relatively short term (20 year) planning timetables.

gameshowhost:CujoQuarrel: You do realize that they would just raises prices don't you?

... which is just fine, as those *using* a resource should be the ones *paying*.

Wouldn't that be pretty much everyone?

****I was going to ask if anyone has ever read anything about what we would be pay for gas, heating oil, diesal, ??, without the tax breaks that offset costs of doing business in the US as opposed to countries with fewer regulations?Still, it would be nice if big oil gave us a little break now and then.I would rather see fewer breaks for pharma that almost soley use tax breaks and subsidies for R&D yet mostly never pay it back. And then claim that the high prices we pay for drugs are the cost of their risks and investments involved.

Acravius:If we just redirected the subsidies from traditional fossil fuels alone, we could replace coal, oil and natural gas in 10 years (for electrical production) at 101 Billion a year, and probably have enough left over to build the infrastrucuture to start replacing it in terms of electric vehicle surface biofuel, algal, water recycling and other methods to have cleaned up the mess America made over the past 60 years making itself a superpower.Then with the 3.5 trillion we would have saved the US over that same 10 years not having to support the middle east, or defend all of the water ways to get our energy/food supplies, we could rebuild our cities so that local and municipalities wouldn't have to serve, water/electricity/sewage, provide and regulate 100 square mile cities for the top 100 population cities, they could be condensed down to 10 square mile cities, with 95% of the city being new and spacious using the best and safe but much less expensive time consuming construction techniques than even the most recent building boom in the 80's used.Finally with the 15 Trillion that we'd save as a nation over the next 10 years, in 2033, we'd be debt free, have doubled our economy to 30 Trillion a year and we could then work towards getting the rest of the world to catch up.If the trend spread, and fertility rates continued to fall as projected, humanity could be stablized by 2050 at around 8.5 to 9 Billion and the standard of living for all could continue to rise, while climate reverting back to where it was in the 1980's, instead of continuing to "snowball" upwards into threatening areas.

It really could occur if we made the shift in emphasis in energy policy from below ground sources, to above ground regional/local sources, and some relatively short term (20 year) planning timetables.

"The year 1913 marked the first time a Big Oil subsidy was written into the tax code. The Revenue Act of 1913 allowed oil companies to write off 5 percent of the costs from oil and gas wells beginning March 1 of that year. (For reference, see pages 172-174 of the Act.) A century later, oil companies can now deduct three times this rate, at 15 percent, although the very largest companies no longer qualify."

In other words, the oil companies get the same sort of tax breaks that every other business, corporation, or person running a business gets. That's... completely unimpressive. The only people who think it's unusual are the ones who have never filled out a Schedule C for taxes...

cirby:"The year 1913 marked the first time a Big Oil subsidy was written into the tax code. The Revenue Act of 1913 allowed oil companies to write off 5 percent of the costs from oil and gas wells beginning March 1 of that year. (For reference, see pages 172-174 of the Act.) A century later, oil companies can now deduct three times this rate, at 15 percent, although the very largest companies no longer qualify."

In other words, the oil companies get the same sort of tax breaks that every other business, corporation, or person running a business gets. That's... completely unimpressive. The only people who think it's unusual are the ones who have never filled out a Schedule C for taxes...

The idea that oil and gas companies get the same tax breaks as everyone else is not only false, it's laughably so. Here are some of the sweet deals that oil and gas companies get here in the US. Some of these are specific to the oil and gas industry, and some are extended to the oil and gas industry even though they shouldn't qualify.

Percentage depletionCompanies are generally allowed to deduct the costs of an investment over the life span of that investment. As the value of the investment depreciates, the deduction goes down. Oil companies on the other hand, get to use a special method for deductions for their gas and oil wells called "percentage depletion." Instead of deducting the costs of a well as its value declines, oil companies can deduct a flat percentage of the income they derive from it. Thus a well's tax benefits do not depreciate over time, and the more profitable a well, the greater the tax benefit. No other industry is allowed to do this.

Domestic manufacturing deductionManufacturing companies were extended special deductions starting in 2004 for keeping manufacturing jobs in the US. The gas & oil companies managed to lobby enough to get included in these special deductions, even though they can't outsource most of their business since it depends on geographically fixed resources. So, they're getting deductions for keeps jobs in the US that they couldn't move outside the US even if they wanted to.

Immediate deductions for drilling costsWhereas companies in every other industry have to spread their deductions for investments over the life of the investment, oil & gas companies can take immediate full deductions for some expenses involved in the building of oil and gas wells. No other industry is allowed to do this.

"Dual capacity taxpayer" rulesWe allow companies that do business internationally to take deductions from their US tax bill for the taxes they've paid to other governments. Oil companies get "dual capacity taxpayer" status, which allows them to claim tax reductions on royalty payments (which are not taxes) to other countries in addition to the deductions for taxes paid.

But yeah, those poor oil and gas companies are just like everyone else and just get a bad rap.

CujoQuarrel:You do realize that they would just raises prices don't you?

Actually prices are dependent on the futures market, specifically the oil futures market. Interestingly enough it's oil companies driving up the prices there. A barrel of oil on the futures market shouldn't cost what it costs now if the price actually had anything to do with supply and demand and perceived availability. As it is, oil companies have gladly helped jack the price up cause it fattens their profits. Though there's way to take care of the futures market issue.

Yogimus:Well, other than the energy boom in the midwest, overall lowest energy costs as percentage of income, and maintainig an economy, what has oil done for us?

hydrocarbons gave us access to cheap, extremely efficient, and therefore highly portable power source along with a set of cheap ultra strong and lightweight materials which were a prerequisite for the creation of modern society. you know roads, bridges, travel, the ability to transport huge mass over long distances for miniscule costs, enormous material breakthroughs.

relcec:fark liberals:[i0.kym-cdn.com image 640x359]f*cking depreciating assets, how do they work?

This just in: Saint Reagan was a Fark liberalUnder our new tax proposal the oil and gas industry will be asked to pick up a larger share of the national tax burden. The old oil depletion allowance will be dropped from the tax code except for wells producing less than 10 barrels a day. By eliminating this special preference, we'll go a long way toward ensuring that those that earn their wealth in the oil industry will be subject to the same taxes as the rest of us. This is only fair. To continue our drive for energy independence, the current treatment of the costs of exploring and drilling for new oil will be maintained.

This just in: Saint Reagan was a Fark liberal Under our new tax proposal the oil and gas industry will be asked to pick up a larger share of the national tax burden. The old oil depletion allowance will be dropped from the tax code except for wells producing less than 10 barrels a day. By eliminating this special preference, we'll go a long way toward ensuring that those that earn their wealth in the oil industry will be subject to the same taxes as the rest of us. This is only fair. To continue our drive for energy independence, the current treatment of the costs of exploring and drilling for new oil will be maintained.

instead of appealing to an authority I couldn't give less of shiat about, why don't you try explaining why you feel (think would be to charitable) that oil companies alone among the heavy industries (and almost all other industries) shouldn't be able to avail themselves of this standard accounting technique that whose operation you couldn't describe of your life depended on it?

you people are the most proudly ignorant set of zealots that have ever existed on the planet. every single day of your life you come in here pontificate, as if you had a halfway decent knowledge base, on shiat you have no farking clue about. just stfu already.

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat:Percentage depletionCompanies are generally allowed to deduct the costs of an investment over the life span of that investment. As the value of the investment depreciates, the deduction goes down. Oil companies on the other hand, get to use a special method for deductions for their gas and oil wells called "percentage depletion." Instead of deducting the costs of a well as its value declines, oil companies can deduct a flat percentage of the income they derive from it. Thus a well's tax benefits do not depreciate over time, and the more profitable a well, the greater the tax benefit. No other industry is allowed to do this.

this is simply treated as depreciating asset and it applies to every single resource extraction company in existence. it's the same principle that allows a landscape service company to depreciate the value of a work truck as its service life expires, it is the same principle that allows intel to depreciate their chip fab plant in chandler arizona as its working life expires, or that allows your local power and gas to depreciate a wind turbine as its serivce life expires.

Domestic manufacturing deductionManufacturing companies were extended special deductions starting in 2004 for keeping manufacturing jobs in the US. The gas & oil companies managed to lobby enough to get included in these special deductions, even though they can't outsource most of their business since it depends on geographically fixed resources. So, they're getting deductions for keeps jobs in the US that they couldn't move outside the US even if they wanted to.

this applies to all manufacturing companies.

Immediate deductions for drilling costsWhereas companies in every other industry have to spread their deductions for investments over the life of the investment, oil & gas companies can take immediate full deductions for some expenses involved in the building of oil and gas wells. No other industry is allowed to do this.just like you can take a deduction for the ordinary costs like labor or rent of any business immediately during that tax year.you want to tax companies on total revenue instead of profit or something? there is no other way to do it.

"Dual capacity taxpayer" rulesWe allow companies that do business internationally to take deductions from their US tax bill for the taxes they've paid to other governments. Oil companies get "dual capacity taxpayer" status, which allows them to claim tax reductions on royalty payments (which are not taxes) to other countries in addition to the deductions for taxes paid.every company that does business oversees avails themselves of this feature. and of course royalty payments are taxes when they accrue to a government.

relcec:Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Percentage depletionCompanies are generally allowed to deduct the costs of an investment over the life span of that investment. As the value of the investment depreciates, the deduction goes down. Oil companies on the other hand, get to use a special method for deductions for their gas and oil wells called "percentage depletion." Instead of deducting the costs of a well as its value declines, oil companies can deduct a flat percentage of the income they derive from it. Thus a well's tax benefits do not depreciate over time, and the more profitable a well, the greater the tax benefit. No other industry is allowed to do this.

this is simply treated as depreciating asset and it applies to every single resource extraction company in existence. it's the same principle that allows a landscape service company to depreciate the value of a work truck as its service life expires, it is the same principle that allows intel to depreciate their chip fab plant in chandler arizona as its working life expires, or that allows your local power and gas to depreciate a wind turbine as its serivce life expires.

Domestic manufacturing deductionManufacturing companies were extended special deductions starting in 2004 for keeping manufacturing jobs in the US. The gas & oil companies managed to lobby enough to get included in these special deductions, even though they can't outsource most of their business since it depends on geographically fixed resources. So, they're getting deductions for keeps jobs in the US that they couldn't move outside the US even if they wanted to.this applies to all manufacturing companies.

Immediate deductions for drilling costsWhereas companies in every other industry have to spread their deductions for investments over the life of the investment, oil & gas companies can take immediate full deductions for some expenses involved in the building of oil and gas wells. No other industry is allowed to do this.just like you can ...

relcec:Domestic manufacturing deductionManufacturing companies were extended special deductions starting in 2004 for keeping manufacturing jobs in the US. The gas & oil companies managed to lobby enough to get included in these special deductions, even though they can't outsource most of their business since it depends on geographically fixed resources. So, they're getting deductions for keeps jobs in the US that they couldn't move outside the US even if they wanted to.this applies to all manufacturing companies.

relcec:Percentage depletionCompanies are generally allowed to deduct the costs of an investment over the life span of that investment. As the value of the investment depreciates, the deduction goes down. Oil companies on the other hand, get to use a special method for deductions for their gas and oil wells called "percentage depletion." Instead of deducting the costs of a well as its value declines, oil companies can deduct a flat percentage of the income they derive from it. Thus a well's tax benefits do not depreciate over time, and the more profitable a well, the greater the tax benefit. No other industry is allowed to do this.

this is simply treated as depreciating asset and it applies to every single resource extraction company in existence. it's the same principle that allows a landscape service company to depreciate the value of a work truck as its service life expires, it is the same principle that allows intel to depreciate their chip fab plant in chandler arizona as its working life expires, or that allows your local power and gas to depreciate a wind turbine as its serivce life expires.

Reading comprehension, how does it work? Did you miss the part where there is no depreciation? The tax break is tied to income from a well and only goes down if income goes down. Even wells reaching the end of their operational life are capable of full production, so for most wells the deduction stays pretty much the same for its entire life.

relcec:Immediate deductions for drilling costsWhereas companies in every other industry have to spread their deductions for investments over the life of the investment, oil & gas companies can take immediate full deductions for some expenses involved in the building of oil and gas wells. No other industry is allowed to do this.just like you can take a deduction for the ordinary costs like labor or rent of any business immediately during that tax year.you want to tax companies on total revenue instead of profit or something? there is no other way to do it.

Oil and gas companies can take immediate full deductions on equipment as well. Once again, since you seem to have trouble with English; No other industry is allowed to do this.

relcec:"Dual capacity taxpayer" rulesWe allow companies that do business internationally to take deductions from their US tax bill for the taxes they've paid to other governments. Oil companies get "dual capacity taxpayer" status, which allows them to claim tax reductions on royalty payments (which are not taxes) to other countries in addition to the deductions for taxes paid.every company that does business oversees avails themselves of this feature. and of course royalty payments are taxes when they accrue to a government.

No, royalty payments are royalty payments. That would be why they're called "royalty payments." Payments don't magically become "taxes" just because you're giving them to a government. Regardless, per the US Chamber of Commerce, almost all dual capacity taxpayers are oil and gas companies. Once again, a tax benefit extended to oil & gas that other industries don't get.

So, I can't decide whether you just really love oil and gas companies, or you have trouble understanding English. Oh, and to stave off the inevitable rant about what oil & gas have done for us, I know. We wouldn't be the country we are without them, but we need to stop giving them benefits no one else gets or that they shouldn't be getting. They're one of the most profitable industries on the f*cking planet, partly because they get those benefits, and they're not going to go out of business (or even take that much of a hit to their profits) if we start making them play by the same rules that everybody else plays by.

This just in: Saint Reagan was a Fark liberal Under our new tax proposal the oil and gas industry will be asked to pick up a larger share of the national tax burden. The old oil depletion allowance will be dropped from the tax code except for wells producing less than 10 barrels a day. By eliminating this special preference, we'll go a long way toward ensuring that those that earn their wealth in the oil industry will be subject to the same taxes as the rest of us. This is only fair. To continue our drive for energy independence, the current treatment of the costs of exploring and drilling for new oil will be maintained.

instead of appealing to an authority I couldn't give less of shiat about, why don't you try explaining why you feel (think would be to charitable) that oil companies alone among the heavy industries (and almost all other industries) shouldn't be able to avail themselves of this standard accounting technique that whose operation you couldn't describe of your life depended on it?

you people are the most proudly ignorant set of zealots that have ever existed on the planet. every single day of your life you come in here pontificate, as if you had a halfway decent knowledge base, on shiat you have no farking clue about. just stfu already.

The best you can do is another straw man argument? Most ponies know at least two tricks.

This just in: Saint Reagan was a Fark liberal Under our new tax proposal the oil and gas industry will be asked to pick up a larger share of the national tax burden. The old oil depletion allowance will be dropped from the tax code except for wells producing less than 10 barrels a day. By eliminating this special preference, we'll go a long way toward ensuring that those that earn their wealth in the oil industry will be subject to the same taxes as the rest of us. This is only fair. To continue our drive for energy independence, the current treatment of the costs of exploring and drilling for new oil will be maintained.

instead of appealing to an authority I couldn't give less of shiat about, why don't you try explaining why you feel (think would be to charitable) that oil companies alone among the heavy industries (and almost all other industries) shouldn't be able to avail themselves of this standard accounting technique that whose operation you couldn't describe of your life depended on it?

you people are the most proudly ignorant set of zealots that have ever existed on the planet. every single day of your life you come in here pontificate, as if you had a halfway decent knowledge base, on shiat you have no farking clue about. just stfu already.

The best you can do is another straw man argument? Most ponies know at least two tricks.

what strawman argument? you appealed to ronald reagan, and I said I never gave a shiat what he thought.

then I asked you why oil companies shouldn't be able to depreciate assets like literally every other business under the sun?

you can even depreciate certain intangible property, such as patents, copyrights, and computer software for goodness sake.

you are the one that is saying treating oil companies like other business is wrong, it is up to you to explain why this is so.this is where you need to try and form a coherent argument.

but the truth is all you have to go on is a profound feeling you have developed by uncritically aping these ridiculous think progress articles - that oil and all resources taken from the earth in a violent manner is inherently - even though you don't have the slightest idea what asset depreciation even entails, so I won't be holding my breath for a cogent argument about why resource extraction companies should be treated different than every other business in america.again, you people are the most proudly ignorant set of zealots that have ever existed on the planet. you are no less ridiculous than the zoroastrians ever could have hoped to be.

This just in: Saint Reagan was a Fark liberal Under our new tax proposal the oil and gas industry will be asked to pick up a larger share of the national tax burden. The old oil depletion allowance will be dropped from the tax code except for wells producing less than 10 barrels a day. By eliminating this special preference, we'll go a long way toward ensuring that those that earn their wealth in the oil industry will be subject to the same taxes as the rest of us. This is only fair. To continue our drive for energy independence, the current treatment of the costs of exploring and drilling for new oil will be maintained.

instead of appealing to an authority I couldn't give less of shiat about, why don't you try explaining why you feel (think would be to charitable) that oil companies alone among the heavy industries (and almost all other industries) shouldn't be able to avail themselves of this standard accounting technique that whose operation you couldn't describe of your life depended on it?

you people are the most proudly ignorant set of zealots that have ever existed on the planet. every single day of your life you come in here pontificate, as if you had a halfway decent knowledge base, on shiat you have no farking clue about. just stfu already.

The best you can do is another straw man argument? Most ponies know at least two tricks.

what strawman argument? you appealed to ronald reagan, and I said I never gave a shiat what he thought.

then I asked you why oil companies shouldn't be able to depreciate assets like literally every other business under the sun?

you can even depreciate certain intangible property, such as patents, copyrights, and computer software for goodness sake.

you are the one that is saying treating oil companies like other business is wrong, it is up to you to explain why this is so.this is where you ne ...