When is a closed thread really closed ;)

It seems that there are some threads that the mods think need closed, but then feel like they just have to continue (giggling here)

Guys, If I did something to get on your nerves, I appologize.

As an ole worn out UPSer (who still owns UPS stock, and really loved what I did (for the most part)), I have both the experience of being on road with lots of customers, and now being one myself. When you can connect the dots, it helps.

I realise UPS cant deliver all businesses by lunch time. But I also dont agree with businesses having to wait till 4:30 for their delivery and pickup at the same time, because EDD told them to deliver a bunch of rezzies near by.

The better service we can offer (yes, service beyond what we promise, instead of barely making that promise), the more business we can capture. For the most part, the driver is the driving force behind that service, and do what they can.

That last mile of service is up to the management and sales team, a group that in many cases is a faceless, nameless person that we might see around every two or three years. When we dont see team work from the top, its hard to grow it from the bottom.

It seems that there are some threads that the mods think need closed, but then feel like they just have to continue (giggling here)

Guys, If I did something to get on your nerves, I appologize.

As an ole worn out UPSer (who still owns UPS stock, and really loved what I did (for the most part)), I have both the experience of being on road with lots of customers, and now being one myself. When you can connect the dots, it helps.

I realise UPS cant deliver all businesses by lunch time. But I also dont agree with businesses having to wait till 4:30 for their delivery and pickup at the same time, because EDD told them to deliver a bunch of rezzies near by.

The better service we can offer (yes, service beyond what we promise, instead of barely making that promise), the more business we can capture. For the most part, the driver is the driving force behind that service, and do what they can.

That last mile of service is up to the management and sales team, a group that in many cases is a faceless, nameless person that we might see around every two or three years. When we dont see team work from the top, its hard to grow it from the bottom.

d

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Seems like much of the time there is no money that is being saved if you go business first and resi later...as we all know routes and loops can be done and put into edd so many different ways and still be efficient especially in the metro areas. How much business does ups loose to fedex on the issues of damages and constant changing of delivery times for business. Yes, fedex has multiple drivers and different times for each delivery...BUT they seem to be getting more constant with their times...especially ground. Sometimes they are later than ups, but in some of the larger cities they are getting out earlier and some customers are noticing this. What fedex then does is go into an account and start finding out what their larger inbound shippers are then try to get the shipper to request fedex for those accounts. This happen on one of my accounts..fedex got most of this companies outbound volume, then I was seeing certain accounts that ALWAYS used ups to ship to this company disappear...they started using fedex too per customer request. Kinda like ssi use to be, but seems to have fizzled out. Fedex getting more constant and ups going the opposite way...not good especially when were loosing some customers not on price but service...really not good.

One item to add to your list, Fedex ground here hits the streets at 7:30-8 at the latest. That puts them delivering business stops a full hour or even two before I used to even get on area. Think about getting an hour head start on your route every day, the changes to our service you could make.

One item to add to your list, Fedex ground here hits the streets at 7:30-8 at the latest. That puts them delivering business stops a full hour or even two before I used to even get on area. Think about getting an hour head start on your route every day, the changes to our service you could make.

d

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One of MY observations over the years is this:

When I started in package car 31 yrs ago, all P/Ters were a little bit below F/Ters in pay. Whenever WE got a raise, THEY got a raise. That went on for many years, that is, P/Ters were always very close to us in pay. They company expected just as much out of them as they expected out of us and rightly so.

I saw it dramatically change with the lowered starting pay set at $8.00 then $8.50 or whatever it is now. Production in the P/T ranks fell tremendously! At least HERE! We all used to start at 08:35. Now, I understand, some start at that time, some start at 08:45, some at 09:00, some even later. Why? Cuz they can't get wrapped up? Why? Can't push production like before? Why?

Being in feeders for the last 28 years, I've seen the same. We get "On Time Pull Week". Well, that never lasted more than just a day. We've seen pull times set at (off the midnight shift) 0230. Can't get wrapped up. Set it at 0245. Can't get wrapped up. Well, let's set it at 0300 and on and on. Some former 0230 pull times are now as late as 0400!

What does that do to your incoming load? Makes it later. Why? Later load means later unload. Later unload means later pre-load. It's a domino effect. All because (IMO) because UPS just insists (of course as per contract) on paying just $8.50 an hour.

I recall a friend of mine also in feeders now. Was P/Ter many years ago loading trailers. Whilst at turnaround hub a few years ago, he came up to one of his return trailers. The loader was so happy. She told him the hub threw a party for her. Huh? She just made 600! He said, "600 per hour?" cuz I think that's what HE was required to do when he was P/Ter. She said, "No, 600 yesterdays shift". 600 THE WHOLE FRIGGIN SHIFT!

Danny, to UPS, you are a grain of sand in the Sahara Desert. Sorry, but it seems that ALL ground and most Air is the same to almost ALL business and resi anymore. They ain't gonna change production for you or anybody else. They just can't anymore! Those days are over.

ARE you saying that the rate of pay, or lack there of, is in some way contributing to the slower package movement rate?

While I think that in a way I would agree, from what I have seen, it could be a cause, maybe even a major cause. But on the other hand, while on TAW because of my knees, I was able to watch what was going on during the preload. There were times that the volume roared down the belts, other times, not that much. But there was not that sense of urgency that used to be.

And what used to be the deadline of 8:30 drifted back to 8:40, and then when 8:40 was not enough, then to 8:50. And now even with the late start time, the sorts are not wrapped up to where we can leave until 9:10 or much later. Its no wonder that they are wanting to get the air commit times rolled back, they cant get us out of the building. So instead of trying to solve the problem, they are content with allowing the problem to remain, but to allow service to drop.

That also then puts the driver back to the building later on, so the unload really has no reason to even start till 7....when they used to be done by 8:30-9.....HEck, who knows, by this time in 2015, start time will be rolled back to noon.

I find this discussion interesting and can be approached in many different ways and perspectives.
From the company perspective ----it would shock some us to see the real value of lowering miles and delivering and making the p/u at the same time. Many customers claim that they will use the competitors or will ship much more with UPS if they have morning delivery and afternoon p/u .
For mid and large shippers --no problem --small--two to three --light --low revenue have to be carefully evaluated.
For many years in many different centers ---when you start the drivers 30 to 45 minutes earlier ---most of the drivers extend their day and come back to the barn at the same finish time --to some extent we are all creatures of habit.
From a common sense appproach ----which I believe was not seriously pursued by the company or considered by the union would be the following:
1. Start the drivers at seven AM ---- commercial only --segregate resi's.
Drivers return to building between four and five.Combo drivers at a much lower rate --unload the p/u's ---local sorts and twi hubs go down early for better preload availability. Combe drivers load resi's and proceed to make later p/us and deliver resi's when customers are at home ---paid send again expense disappears --combo drs return to bldg --unload cars --take lunch and prepare for work on mid hub --Give union real --and more full time jobs --reduce staffing stress and turnover on night hub.
Customers get early deliveries ---early and later pickups.
Ups --reduces send again cost --grows volume with more satisfied customers.
---eliminates overtime --over 9.5 grievances
---is able to deliver ground residential at a much lower non -overtime rate ---will compensate for additional miles and will put real pricing stress on fed x ground.
The drivers get an earlier start --earlier finish.
Much less required overtime --both summer and peak season.
P/t's have more opportunity for more combo jobs --List will eventually get them to top pay and early start drivers.
The union --gets more full time jobs --reduces the headache of drivers complaining about overtime -----while letting ups deliver ground resi's at a much lower rate ---- the stress of non union fed x will drive much more volume to ups --AGAIN MEANS MORE UNION JOBS --F/T COMBO AND p/t
A little common sense with company and union ----- would provide major benefits for all involved with UPS --CUSTOMERS ---COMPANY --UNION AND most of all ----the hard working people .
Something to think about ????

I've found that because UPS is trying to limit the part timers hours to 3.5 that things are going slower hoping the workers are told to stay longer. When 4.5-6 hours was more normal, the preloaders were hurrying to get done earlier to get home or to their 2nd job.

ARE you saying that the rate of pay, or lack there of, is in some way contributing to the slower package movement rate?

While I think that in a way I would agree, from what I have seen, it could be a cause, maybe even a major cause. But on the other hand, while on TAW because of my knees, I was able to watch what was going on during the preload. There were times that the volume roared down the belts, other times, not that much. But there was not that sense of urgency that used to be.

And what used to be the deadline of 8:30 drifted back to 8:40, and then when 8:40 was not enough, then to 8:50. And now even with the late start time, the sorts are not wrapped up to where we can leave until 9:10 or much later. Its no wonder that they are wanting to get the air commit times rolled back, they cant get us out of the building. So instead of trying to solve the problem, they are content with allowing the problem to remain, but to allow service to drop.

That also then puts the driver back to the building later on, so the unload really has no reason to even start till 7....when they used to be done by 8:30-9.....HEck, who knows, by this time in 2015, start time will be rolled back to noon.

d

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In 1999 we had an 8am start time, today 835 and 845 is the norm with some 9am starts. We are doing more stops today then back then to. Could you imagine the selling point that we could make your delivery all at one time, airs and grounds, oh wait we did that back in the 90s. So there really is no difference service from us to fedex?