Re: Prebuilt mod-nyq-bench for Windows and Mac

> The Manual still offered a link to prebuilt Windows and Mac mod-nyq-bench,
> so I had to provide them.
>
> On macOS, Audacity crashes on Quit unless you close the Workbench first
> then use Audacity > Quit Audacity... . Right-click over the Audacity
> icon in the
> Dock always crashes even if Workbench is closed:
> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1609 .
>
> Has there been any feedback on the Nyquist Forum boards that these
> pre-built libraries are being used?

I've not seen anyone mention using Nyquist Workbench for a long time.
I generally use the Nyquist Prompt instead as the new version has most
of the functionality that I need, and it is available in the default
build.

The main benefit that I see in maintaining this module is that it
keeps the idea of modules alive, and I think that's important for long
term development.

Re: Prebuilt mod-nyq-bench for Windows and Mac

However there is no point supplying a prebuilt module there is no
demand for. I removed the link to prebuilt mod-nyq-bench from the
Manual so we don't have to provide that each release.

Clearly there is strong demand to supply prebuilt mod-script-pipe.
If we still have some reason not to do that, then I suggest we provide
some more useful module than Workbench as a "demonstration" of a
module. Perhaps one of Paul's new features, if not deemed mainstream?

> On 20 March 2017 at 05:20, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The Manual still offered a link to prebuilt Windows and Mac mod-nyq-bench,
>> so I had to provide them.
>>
>> On macOS, Audacity crashes on Quit unless you close the Workbench first
>> then use Audacity > Quit Audacity... . Right-click over the Audacity
>> icon in the
>> Dock always crashes even if Workbench is closed:
>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1609 .
>>
>> Has there been any feedback on the Nyquist Forum boards that these
>> pre-built libraries are being used?
>
> I've not seen anyone mention using Nyquist Workbench for a long time.
> I generally use the Nyquist Prompt instead as the new version has most
> of the functionality that I need, and it is available in the default
> build.
>
> The main benefit that I see in maintaining this module is that it
> keeps the idea of modules alive, and I think that's important for long
> term development.
>
> Steve
>
>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality

I'm not sure that we can say "no demand". I wasn't aware (or had
forgotten) that there was a pre-built module available.

The Workbench does still have additional benefits over the Nyquist
Prompt. In particular:
* It has parentheses matching (essential for LISP)
* The ability to stop a script that gets caught in a loop (the only
escape if this happens in the Nyquist Prompt is to force quit
Audacity).
* Full support for Generate and Analyze type plug-ins.

The main reasons that I don't use it are:
* It has to be built each time that I build Audacity
* It is frequently broken
* I'm comfortable copy and pasting between Scite and the Nyquist Prompt
* I'm familiar with the subtleties of process / generate / analyze
type plug-ins.

> I removed the link to prebuilt mod-nyq-bench from the
> Manual so we don't have to provide that each release.
>
> Clearly there is strong demand to supply prebuilt mod-script-pipe.
> If we still have some reason not to do that, then I suggest we provide
> some more useful module than Workbench as a "demonstration" of a
> module. Perhaps one of Paul's new features, if not deemed mainstream?

I'd love to see further development of the module API.
James and Leland discussed this early May 2014 on the Team mailing
list. Unfortunately the archive does not appear to go back that far,
but the gist was, to quote Leland:

"The current state of "modules" can not (and should not) be pursued or
extended. We must create an abstraction/interface layer within
Audacity to expose ONLY the classes/objects/methods that should be
considered "public". This will protect the users (like modules) from
internal class changes allowing them to continue to work without
rebuilding or being tied to the exact Audacity version."

Steve

>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 20 March 2017 at 10:21, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 20 March 2017 at 05:20, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> The Manual still offered a link to prebuilt Windows and Mac mod-nyq-bench,
>>> so I had to provide them.
>>>
>>> On macOS, Audacity crashes on Quit unless you close the Workbench first
>>> then use Audacity > Quit Audacity... . Right-click over the Audacity
>>> icon in the
>>> Dock always crashes even if Workbench is closed:
>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1609 .
>>>
>>> Has there been any feedback on the Nyquist Forum boards that these
>>> pre-built libraries are being used?
>>
>> I've not seen anyone mention using Nyquist Workbench for a long time.
>> I generally use the Nyquist Prompt instead as the new version has most
>> of the functionality that I need, and it is available in the default
>> build.
>>
>> The main benefit that I see in maintaining this module is that it
>> keeps the idea of modules alive, and I think that's important for long
>> term development.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality

Re: Prebuilt mod-nyq-bench for Windows and Mac

> On 20 March 2017 at 19:14, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> There are quite a few bugs and enh's listed for Workbench:
>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=workbench .
>>
>> so I assume it still has a tenuous future.
>>
>> However there is no point supplying a prebuilt module there is no
>> demand for.
>
> I'm not sure that we can say "no demand". I wasn't aware (or had
> forgotten) that there was a pre-built module available.
>

I wasn't aware of it either.
I've tried building it but always failed for one reason or another
(especially frustrating when you build Audacity and unfortunately
midnight goes by...)
Well, it's not accessible if I recall correctly.
The Nyquist prompt has much improved and so I don't actually need it.

In general, I think it would be better when modules are available in
the releases without additional labour for the user. Just turning it
on in preferences.
Provided of course that those are mostly bug-free.

Robert

> The Workbench does still have additional benefits over the Nyquist
> Prompt. In particular:
> * It has parentheses matching (essential for LISP)
> * The ability to stop a script that gets caught in a loop (the only
> escape if this happens in the Nyquist Prompt is to force quit
> Audacity).
> * Full support for Generate and Analyze type plug-ins.
>
> The main reasons that I don't use it are:
> * It has to be built each time that I build Audacity
> * It is frequently broken
> * I'm comfortable copy and pasting between Scite and the Nyquist Prompt
> * I'm familiar with the subtleties of process / generate / analyze
> type plug-ins.
>
>> I removed the link to prebuilt mod-nyq-bench from the
>> Manual so we don't have to provide that each release.
>>
>> Clearly there is strong demand to supply prebuilt mod-script-pipe.
>> If we still have some reason not to do that, then I suggest we provide
>> some more useful module than Workbench as a "demonstration" of a
>> module. Perhaps one of Paul's new features, if not deemed mainstream?
>
> I'd love to see further development of the module API.
> James and Leland discussed this early May 2014 on the Team mailing
> list. Unfortunately the archive does not appear to go back that far,
> but the gist was, to quote Leland:
>
> "The current state of "modules" can not (and should not) be pursued or
> extended. We must create an abstraction/interface layer within
> Audacity to expose ONLY the classes/objects/methods that should be
> considered "public". This will protect the users (like modules) from
> internal class changes allowing them to continue to work without
> rebuilding or being tied to the exact Audacity version."
>
> Steve
>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>> On 20 March 2017 at 10:21, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> On 20 March 2017 at 05:20, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> The Manual still offered a link to prebuilt Windows and Mac
>>>> mod-nyq-bench,
>>>> so I had to provide them.
>>>>
>>>> On macOS, Audacity crashes on Quit unless you close the Workbench first
>>>> then use Audacity > Quit Audacity... . Right-click over the Audacity
>>>> icon in the
>>>> Dock always crashes even if Workbench is closed:
>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1609 .
>>>>
>>>> Has there been any feedback on the Nyquist Forum boards that these
>>>> pre-built libraries are being used?
>>>
>>> I've not seen anyone mention using Nyquist Workbench for a long time.
>>> I generally use the Nyquist Prompt instead as the new version has most
>>> of the functionality that I need, and it is available in the default
>>> build.
>>>
>>> The main benefit that I see in maintaining this module is that it
>>> keeps the idea of modules alive, and I think that's important for long
>>> term development.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gale
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality>