The IPA vs. Pale Ale line

Just as another potential line-straddler, for those folks in the general DC area, is DC Brau's excellent The Public. Billed as a Pale Ale at 6%, IMO it tastes more in line with IPA standards. (DC Brau also has a hoppier beer at 6.5% (The Corruption) ... also excellent, but billed as an IPA).

to me there are a couple differentials. an IPA should have assertive bitterness and be dry hopped and be above 5.5 abv. a Pale Ale should really let the hop "flavor" come through with little bitterness and of course the color matters. that just scratches the surface

There is no line, only a continuous spectrum with a large overlapping area.

A few years ago, it was easier to say that an IPA was likely to be sweeter/boozier and more bitter with some more hop aroma as well, but now you see more dry, lower alcohol IPAs so that point is murkier.

Hop aroma and bitterness are still relatively good indicators of whether a beer is called APA or IPA, but plenty of IPAs are lacking on hop aroma at least (these tend to be less praised by beer geeks), while some APAs have jusrt as much if not more hop aroma than many IPAs (Zombie Dust, etc.).

Bitterness still seems like a pretty good differentiating factor, as you are very unlikely to see a 70 IBU pale ale or a 30IBU IPA. They are out there though.

In the real world, the two styles are just all over the place, though if you broke things down by percentage of beer representing those characteristics, I think there are definite, clear trends. Judging guidelines are pretty clear, but you have to remember that those are an arbitrary ideal and are made to facilitate judging, not dictate styles in the real world.

To me it's across the line on Hop aroma and taste. I think the body and abv might be why they call it an APA. Either way it's one of my favorite beers. If it was available in my area it would have a permanent place in my beer fridge.... Just fantastic no matter what category it's listed under.

I feel the coin/use of the term "IPA" is (Very) Loose now for a lot of diff Categories of Beers in 2days market (in a way)...one distinctive in mind is the Sam Adams Hallertau Imperial "Pilsner"..which Very much tastes like an "IPA" of sorts..if u didn't tell someone ...they prob wldnt know. -- a Good beer is a Good beer...its just bttr if they taste like an IPA ;P

"IPA" first appeared as a name around 1840. Pale Ale around 1640. Lots has happened since then.They have both existed in many forms and guises . How can anybody try to specify exactly what is one and what is the other?

Alesmith X, on the other hand, is right on the line. I find it hard to call it a pale ale, as the brewery categorizes it. On the other hand, I do love the way expectations are managed by calling it a pale. It's so light and refreshing, I wouldn't want really to be judging it up against the frequently heavy handed mainstream IPAs.

X almost reminded me of much more recently-developed session IPAs, like Lagunitas Daytime Fractional IPA and Founders All Day IPA.

Where is the line between a dog and a poodle? There isn't one and you won't be wrong in calling a poodle a dog.Poodle is just a sub category but unlike with beers dog breeds actually do have proper definitions accepted by all.
Call a beer an IPA if you like, it doesn't cease to be a Pale Ale.ESB remains a bitter in the same fashion.So much that's written about beer is pure opinion based on assumption and offered as definitive which it isn't.
At which point do you think a Pale Ale deserves the India prefix? That depends on you and your preconceptions.

This question came up as we tried DFH new Pale Ale American Beauty (note: the question centered around 60 minute, actually) I understand the usefulness of categorization, and try to rate within, but feel actual taste matters. For such closely related styles, I don't see how the category should be a huge difference maker in reviews. And if you feel it does, write in a full review.

I also have never had Zombie Dust, but from what people are saying (early I this thread), are they rating it down b/c it is out of category? It should be an IPA, apparently, so it should get bad reviews as a Pale Ale for being to hoppy. Yet it has a 100 rating, why? Because people like it, despite categorization.

So I say, rate on your taste and be overt about it, and let the reader decide and taste on their own. Don't be too tied to categories so good beers can be discovered by more people.

Where is the line between a dog and a poodle? There isn't one and you won't be wrong in calling a poodle a dog.Poodle is just a sub category but unlike with beers dog breeds actually do have proper definitions accepted by all.
Call a beer an IPA if you like, it doesn't cease to be a Pale Ale.ESB remains a bitter in the same fashion.So much that's written about beer is pure opinion based on assumption and offered as definitive which it isn't.
At which point do you think a Pale Ale deserves the India prefix? That depends on you and your preconceptions.

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So would you call a poodle a wolf since that is what a poodle evoolved from? Hell no. You also wouldn't call a doberman a poodle even though they have similarities. And the sanctioning bodies for the akc that. Define what american dogs are considered their own breedss don't represent the same breed definitions on an international level. Also the akc will recognize a new breed once it has a bit of popularity behind it. The same trappings and downfalls that we have in the beer world carry over to the dog world analogy. I had an english bulldog that was as close to the original bulldogs as drednaught is to the original ipa, and since we have no internationally recognized definition of what an ipa, pale, or any other beer style for that matter, we are all wrong, including you. So let it go.

Although Pales and IPAs are two of my favorite styles of beer, I generally put the beer I drink into two and only two categories. The ones I like and the ones I don't like. This makes things simple for me.

"IPA" first appeared as a name around 1840. Pale Ale around 1640. Lots has happened since then.They have both existed in many forms and guises . How can anybody try to specify exactly what is one and what is the other?

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I just know when the hops over balance the beer so badly my taste buds stop working its too many hops for me.
sadly so many American PA are really just IPA's. IMHO

It my curse to have first had a great PA it just had to be a bass PA on cask. ruined all these hop bombs for me since. Still I do find them great for pairing with really hot food.

Zombie Dust comes to mind. It absolutely puts most pale ales to shame in the hoppiness category. It should absolutely be recategorized as an IPA.

That said, this sort of discussion will eventually become the same endless discussion that everyone has with music and subgenres (particularly in metal and electronica). Of course, it is human nature to want to categorize and thus understand things, so conversations of this nature, for better or for worse, will always be a highly debated topic.

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Great analogy, and fantastic avatar pic.

Also, I completely agree: plenty of APAs or EPAs completely work as IPAs. Conversely, I was once disappointed with a beer that was advertised to me as an IPA. When I checked it out, though, the brewer called it an APA. That made all the difference in the world: the beer wasn't bad at all, but my expectations for flavor were off.

Sometimes I want a pale ale; other times, I want an IPA. More importantly, I want a flavor profile consistent with that style. Whatever they choose to call it is irrelevant; if they take a Belgian Quad and start calling it an IPA, I'm still only going to drink it if I'm in the mood for a Quad.