Another tiny one - but this was REALLY tiny.The block was 35 seconds after the previous network block and the txn mempool was pretty empty - the block size was only 34,103 bytes!There were quite a few small blocks before it, but that was the smallest in the last 10 network blocks.Well - a block is a block

Not had much luck lately, another Friday block, lets crack another one today..

Welp, my plan took a dive. I'm gonna tweak my rules a bit and give it one last shot before I call it off because it's going to get lost in the pages anyway. I think the changes will open it up to a lot more miners who may have a good answer (including NEW miners).

I want to see how well the small miners understand this and can explain it on a level where YOU(and others, including myself) fully understand it. I want that light bulb to go off and have ZERO doubt about how we are getting paid for our shares and I will donate 50 TH/s for a period of 5 days to a lucky winner.

My rules:

1- You have to have been mining on Kano's Pool with a hash rate between 1 and 20 TH/s2- The rewarded hash has to be pointed at Kano's pool. (to be confirmed by Kano)3- You have to submit your answer in response to this quote and give 2 working examples including the payouts calculated.4- padrinogtr will have to be able to explain his new understanding with his own example in response to the submitted answer and have the answer's accuracy verified by Kano. 5- New miners to the pool are welcome, though you will have had to have been here for at least the last block (this will help ramp your 5Nd up much sooner!!)

The 5 day 50 TH/s award will start as soon as I am able to see confirmation and have access to my controllers. I will of course need a worker name.I understand this is dependent on some cooperation from others, but hey it's 50 TH/s on the line and I'm currently only running about 70 TH/s, so it's a big deal to me.

5 days - 50 TH/s .... don't let us down padrinogtr!!!!!! There was talk of others donating some hash too. If their offer is still good, that hash will be separate and in addition to the 50 TH/s I am donating.

*Of course, this is for fun and in the event of a hash rate failure, I will not be obligated to make it up as noted in prior promotions. I hope I'm not leaving out any details. I will stay active with the announcements as well as open to hearing some feedback or details that should be edited.

Thanks everyone and MINE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll take you up on that offer Unfortunately I'm unlikely to get above 800/900 GH/s for a week or two..... Mining with the same username I use on this board.

It's not just a giveaway. He wanted an explanation of 5Nd and/or PPLNS in general... with pictures even!

So I can just copy paste the PPLNS explantions from kano.is then

How about: PPS is for suckers who mine on dodgy pools - PPLNS is where it's at!

Another tiny one - but this was REALLY tiny.The block was 35 seconds after the previous network block and the txn mempool was pretty empty - the block size was only 34,103 bytes!There were quite a few small blocks before it, but that was the smallest in the last 10 network blocks.Well - a block is a block

Another tiny one - but this was REALLY tiny.The block was 35 seconds after the previous network block and the txn mempool was pretty empty - the block size was only 34,103 bytes!There were quite a few small blocks before it, but that was the smallest in the last 10 network blocks.Well - a block is a block

Smaller size = less BTC?

Yep - as I said, there were very few transactions available at the time - even segwit transactions - we include both types in our blocks.Fewer transactions mean smaller rewards - as you can see on the Blocks page it was 12.51725753BTC and on the Rewards page the miner reward was 12.40460222BTC

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLUFreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.isMajority developer of the ckpool codeHelp keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!

Another tiny one - but this was REALLY tiny.The block was 35 seconds after the previous network block and the txn mempool was pretty empty - the block size was only 34,103 bytes!There were quite a few small blocks before it, but that was the smallest in the last 10 network blocks.Well - a block is a block

Not had much luck lately, another Friday block, lets crack another one today..

Well considering most blocks are not very high in transactions at the moment - as I said - a block is a block Antpoo just had a 8,387 byte block - even smaller - 1/3 of the transactions we had The last block above 16BTC was 34 blocks ago, block 511,574 coz it was a 40 minute block.I certainly don't think a block close to 100% is unlucky ...

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLUFreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.isMajority developer of the ckpool codeHelp keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!

Another tiny one - but this was REALLY tiny.The block was 35 seconds after the previous network block and the txn mempool was pretty empty - the block size was only 34,103 bytes!There were quite a few small blocks before it, but that was the smallest in the last 10 network blocks.Well - a block is a block

Not had much luck lately, another Friday block, lets crack another one today..

Well considering most blocks are not very high in transactions at the moment - as I said - a block is a block Antpoo just had a 8,387 byte block - even smaller - 1/3 of the transactions we had The last block above 16BTC was 34 blocks ago, block 511,574 coz it was a 40 minute block.I certainly don't think a block close to 100% is unlucky ...

100% is what we expect, now let's raise our expectations for this block and get it quick!

Welp, my plan took a dive. I'm gonna tweak my rules a bit and give it one last shot before I call it off because it's going to get lost in the pages anyway. I think the changes will open it up to a lot more miners who may have a good answer (including NEW miners).

I want to see how well the small miners understand this and can explain it on a level where YOU(and others, including myself) fully understand it. I want that light bulb to go off and have ZERO doubt about how we are getting paid for our shares and I will donate 50 TH/s for a period of 5 days to a lucky winner.

My rules:

1- You have to have been mining on Kano's Pool with a hash rate between 1 and 20 TH/s2- The rewarded hash has to be pointed at Kano's pool. (to be confirmed by Kano)3- You have to submit your answer in response to this quote and give 2 working examples including the payouts calculated.4- padrinogtr will have to be able to explain his new understanding with his own example in response to the submitted answer and have the answer's accuracy verified by Kano. 5- New miners to the pool are welcome, though you will have had to have been here for at least the last block (this will help ramp your 5Nd up much sooner!!)

The 5 day 50 TH/s award will start as soon as I am able to see confirmation and have access to my controllers. I will of course need a worker name.I understand this is dependent on some cooperation from others, but hey it's 50 TH/s on the line and I'm currently only running about 70 TH/s, so it's a big deal to me.

5 days - 50 TH/s .... don't let us down padrinogtr!!!!!! There was talk of others donating some hash too. If their offer is still good, that hash will be separate and in addition to the 50 TH/s I am donating.

*Of course, this is for fun and in the event of a hash rate failure, I will not be obligated to make it up as noted in prior promotions. I hope I'm not leaving out any details. I will stay active with the announcements as well as open to hearing some feedback or details that should be edited.

Thanks everyone and MINE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll take you up on that offer Unfortunately I'm unlikely to get above 800/900 GH/s for a week or two..... Mining with the same username I use on this board.https://imgur.com/msSFSBv.png

It's not just a giveaway. He wanted an explanation of 5Nd and/or PPLNS in general... with pictures even!

So I can just copy paste the PPLNS explantions from kano.is then

How about: PPS is for suckers who mine on dodgy pools - PPLNS is where it's at!

You're missing the point of the contest though. Read the rules.

Yes I know. My replies were meant jokingly. There are probably 500 questions/complaints in the thread already - "why are my payments less than poolx", "I hash at this or that TH/s but my share stats look like they are divided by 5" etc.

Welp, my plan took a dive. I'm gonna tweak my rules a bit and give it one last shot before I call it off because it's going to get lost in the pages anyway. I think the changes will open it up to a lot more miners who may have a good answer (including NEW miners).

I want to see how well the small miners understand this and can explain it on a level where YOU(and others, including myself) fully understand it. I want that light bulb to go off and have ZERO doubt about how we are getting paid for our shares and I will donate 50 TH/s for a period of 5 days to a lucky winner.

My rules:

1- You have to have been mining on Kano's Pool with a hash rate between 1 and 20 TH/s2- The rewarded hash has to be pointed at Kano's pool. (to be confirmed by Kano)3- You have to submit your answer in response to this quote and give 2 working examples including the payouts calculated.4- padrinogtr will have to be able to explain his new understanding with his own example in response to the submitted answer and have the answer's accuracy verified by Kano. 5- New miners to the pool are welcome, though you will have had to have been here for at least the last block (this will help ramp your 5Nd up much sooner!!)

The 5 day 50 TH/s award will start as soon as I am able to see confirmation and have access to my controllers. I will of course need a worker name.I understand this is dependent on some cooperation from others, but hey it's 50 TH/s on the line and I'm currently only running about 70 TH/s, so it's a big deal to me.

5 days - 50 TH/s .... don't let us down padrinogtr!!!!!! There was talk of others donating some hash too. If their offer is still good, that hash will be separate and in addition to the 50 TH/s I am donating.

*Of course, this is for fun and in the event of a hash rate failure, I will not be obligated to make it up as noted in prior promotions. I hope I'm not leaving out any details. I will stay active with the announcements as well as open to hearing some feedback or details that should be edited.

Thanks everyone and MINE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll take you up on that offer Unfortunately I'm unlikely to get above 800/900 GH/s for a week or two..... Mining with the same username I use on this board.https://imgur.com/msSFSBv.png

It's not just a giveaway. He wanted an explanation of 5Nd and/or PPLNS in general... with pictures even!

So I can just copy paste the PPLNS explantions from kano.is then

How about: PPS is for suckers who mine on dodgy pools - PPLNS is where it's at!

You're missing the point of the contest though. Read the rules.

Yes I know. My replies were meant jokingly. There are probably 500 questions/complaints in the thread already - "why are my payments less than poolx", "I hash at this or that TH/s but my share stats look like they are divided by 5" etc.

if kanos explanation worked he wouldn't still be confused and there would be no contest lol.

and to that other fellow i do NOT aprove this block i want another one !!!

Of course I dindt work all shifts for the block but reward looks so tiny for 3 days of cranking with approx 37Th/s.

Welcome!

This is because you have just started "ramping" the 5nd. The "ramp" time is around/near 15 days, after that, you will receive full rewards. I am near 11 days, and this reward, was bigger than my first two rewards combined. Be patient, it gets better!

Welp, my plan took a dive. I'm gonna tweak my rules a bit and give it one last shot before I call it off because it's going to get lost in the pages anyway. I think the changes will open it up to a lot more miners who may have a good answer (including NEW miners).

I want to see how well the small miners understand this and can explain it on a level where YOU(and others, including myself) fully understand it. I want that light bulb to go off and have ZERO doubt about how we are getting paid for our shares and I will donate 50 TH/s for a period of 5 days to a lucky winner.

My rules:

1- You have to have been mining on Kano's Pool with a hash rate between 1 and 20 TH/s2- The rewarded hash has to be pointed at Kano's pool. (to be confirmed by Kano)3- You have to submit your answer in response to this quote and give 2 working examples including the payouts calculated.4- padrinogtr will have to be able to explain his new understanding with his own example in response to the submitted answer and have the answer's accuracy verified by Kano. 5- New miners to the pool are welcome, though you will have had to have been here for at least the last block (this will help ramp your 5Nd up much sooner!!)

The 5 day 50 TH/s award will start as soon as I am able to see confirmation and have access to my controllers. I will of course need a worker name.I understand this is dependent on some cooperation from others, but hey it's 50 TH/s on the line and I'm currently only running about 70 TH/s, so it's a big deal to me.

5 days - 50 TH/s .... don't let us down padrinogtr!!!!!! There was talk of others donating some hash too. If their offer is still good, that hash will be separate and in addition to the 50 TH/s I am donating.

*Of course, this is for fun and in the event of a hash rate failure, I will not be obligated to make it up as noted in prior promotions. I hope I'm not leaving out any details. I will stay active with the announcements as well as open to hearing some feedback or details that should be edited.

When a block is found with a reward of the last block size in blocks page "2018‑03‑02 05:50:27" = 12.51725753 - 0.9% fee = 12.40460222The reward of 12.40460222 is the block that will be shared among miners in the pool.So based on the formula of (R*S = your BTC reward)

12.40460222*0.00035 = 0.00434161 BTC in this block.

So in summary, as a new miner, to understand how much you will get per block found, always remember this formula and keep it handydandy.

Please note, the formula above only considers when you are fully ramped up.You can always see in the shifts graph page whether your already fully ramped or not so just go and visit your shifts graph page.When fully ramped, then always keep that formula at hand.

So at that rate assuming all values remain thesame, an S9 miner would at least hope and pray to have 8-9 blocks found in a month to be mining here and be more profitable than other pools which gives you at least 0.0011 BTC a day.

[EDIT]So imagine, if we find a block with 22.67465393 reward just like last 2017‑12‑23 01:54:00, that would be a wooping 0.00786470 BTC in that single block alone! Imagine if we hit 7 block with 12.4 miner reward + 1 block with 22 miner reward, in those 8 blocks alone, you already get 0.03825597!That is approximately around 20% difference already vs a daily payout of 0.0011 * 30 = 0.033 BTC.

I hope this explanation helps a lot to kanopool new members as me as a new member as well wanted to know how profitable it is to mine here and this is what i have observed.

(N/PN)=S37,000 / 46,880,000 = 0.00078925 Share/Contribution from the total pool power

Block reward (R) = 12.40460222R*S = Your BTC received

12.40460222 * 0.00078925 = 0.00979032 BTC on this block IF you were already fully ramped up.Assuming we find 10 blocks of thesame size you'll get 0.096892 BTC in 30 days which should be waymore better than 0.003094 a day * 30 = 0.09282 BTC

Hope this helps. As many long time miners here say, be patient and it will pay off!

Of course I dindt work all shifts for the block but reward looks so tiny for 3 days of cranking with approx 37Th/s.

Thanks.

My take on a post from Kano a long while back:

The 5Nd "ramp" means it takes that long to reward your shares. It's not a punishment and The ramp isn't missing rewards, it's delaying them to reduce variance. Each share is rewarded in all the blocks found in the 5Nd after the share. That's simply how it reduces variance. Each share's reward is averaged out over the 5Nd after it.

How do the PPLNS payments work?

The 5Nd means the pool rewards 5 times the expected number of shares each time a block is found. So each share will be paid approximately 1/5 of it's expected value in each block it gets a reward, but each share is also expected, on average, to be rewarded 5 times in blocks found after the share is submitted to the pool.

So, on the 1st block the pool hits when you start on Kano you get rewarded 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for that block. On the 2nd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block. On the 3rd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 3rd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block and on and on like that until all of the value of the shares are paid. That's also how you would continue to get payouts for the 5Nd ramp down period after you leave this pool.

This is a simplistic view of 5Nd because it is also affected by luck. If pool luck was always 100% then each share is expected to be rewarded 5 times.If pool luck is better than 100%, then the average share reward will be better than 5 times. (Love it when it hits 10-12 times!)If pool luck is worse than 100%, then the average share reward will be less than 5 times.

The 5Nd really helps you out if your miners go down for a couple of hours or are down for a day. You would continue to be rewarded if the pool hit a block while you were down. I've seen pools where you would get nothing out of a block if you were down for just an hour or so when the block was hit.

Of course I dindt work all shifts for the block but reward looks so tiny for 3 days of cranking with approx 37Th/s.

Thanks.

My take on a post from Kano a long while back:

The 5Nd "ramp" means it takes that long to reward your shares. It's not a punishment and The ramp isn't missing rewards, it's delaying them to reduce variance. Each share is rewarded in all the blocks found in the 5Nd after the share. That's simply how it reduces variance. Each share's reward is averaged out over the 5Nd after it.

How do the PPLNS payments work?

The 5Nd means the pool rewards 5 times the expected number of shares each time a block is found. So each share will be paid approximately 1/5 of it's expected value in each block it gets a reward, but each share is also expected, on average, to be rewarded 5 times in blocks found after the share is submitted to the pool.

So, on the 1st block the pool hits when you start on Kano you get rewarded 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for that block. On the 2nd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block. On the 3rd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 3rd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block and on and on like that until all of the value of the shares are paid. That's also how you would continue to get payouts for the 5Nd ramp down period after you leave this pool.

This is a simplistic view of 5Nd because it is also affected by luck. If pool luck was always 100% then each share is expected to be rewarded 5 times.If pool luck is better than 100%, then the average share reward will be better than 5 times. (Love it when it hits 10-12 times!)If pool luck is worse than 100%, then the average share reward will be less than 5 times.

The 5Nd really helps you out if your miners go down for a couple of hours or are down for a day. You would continue to be rewarded if the pool hit a block while you were down. I've seen pools where you would get nothing out of a block if you were down for just an hour or so when the block was hit.

The 5Nd windows isn't affected by luck. Whats affected by luck is how many solved blocks fall into that window.

@Vene if you look back a page or two I made some really simple pictures. But to be as simple as possible, when this block was found, it looked back at roughly 15 days worth of stats to determine payouts. Since you've only been mining for 3 days, your payout was smaller.

A really rough calculation would be (37/49091)*(3/15). This would be (your hash rate / pool hash rate) * (how long you've been mining here / current length of 5Nd "ramp")

But this calculation isn't exact because your hash rate and pool hash rate both fluctuate, how long you've been mining cannot be more than the length of the 5Nd "ramp" and the ramp itself changes length in terms of days when network difficulty changes.

Also important to note that the bitcoin you may be thinking of as "missing" are really just delayed. If you stop mining now, and we hit 3 blocks tomorrow, you'll still get paid for them since there is also a "ramp down".

Been away for a bit, happy to see we have some more blocks! Thanks canaan x 2 and biffa!

I was crunching some numbers, and I joined this pool after we found block 504409 (our block # 2202).

Looking at the 44 days I have been mining in the pool, I have been a party to 7 blocks, with a cumulative difficulty of 1,453.543%, or roughly 207.649% per block.

If I am correct, statistically speaking, we were expecting to find about 14 blocks in that same time frame, but due to bad luck we found half of that.

So my question is, is that correct? Am I reading and understanding the numbers properly?

Thanks in advance!

Back of envelope says that's probably correct. Looking at the blocks, 2202 was mid January. Overall January had over 100% luck, but mostly due to very good luck in early January. Late January had less than 100% luck average and all of February was pretty bad... 44% luck. So yeah I could buy your numbers.

Been away for a bit, happy to see we have some more blocks! Thanks canaan x 2 and biffa!

I was crunching some numbers, and I joined this pool after we found block 504409 (our block # 2202).

Looking at the 44 days I have been mining in the pool, I have been a party to 7 blocks, with a cumulative difficulty of 1,453.543%, or roughly 207.649% per block.

If I am correct, statistically speaking, we were expecting to find about 14 blocks in that same time frame, but due to bad luck we found half of that.

So my question is, is that correct? Am I reading and understanding the numbers properly?

Thanks in advance!

Back of envelope says that's probably correct. Looking at the blocks, 2202 was mid January. Overall January had over 100% luck, but mostly due to very good luck in early January. Late January had less than 100% luck average and all of February was pretty bad... 44% luck. So yeah I could buy your numbers.

Yep, you are very close on your estimate...the average pool hash rate after block 504409 (1/16/2018) until the latest block last night is 44.11PH/s so the expected block total for that average over the 44 days would have been 12.98. With 7 blocks found during that time, we are approximately 5.98 blocks shy of the expected 100% for that stretch of time.