Bill making it a federal crime to support BDS sends shockwaves through progressive community

Adam Schiff, one of the supporters of bill making it a crime to support BDS

There is only one story in the news, for followers of the Israel/Palestine conflict, and that is Glenn Greenwald and Ryan Grim’s report at the Intercept yesterday on new legislation in the Congress that would criminalize support for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS). Yes, criminalize.

The bill is such a crude example of overreach by the Israel lobby that it is sure to backfire on its supporters as Greenwald and Grim’s report ricochets around the Democratic Party:

But now, a group of 43 senators — 29 Republicans and 14 Democrats — wants to implement a law that would make it a felony for Americans to support the international boycott against Israel, which was launched in protest of that country’s decades-old occupation of Palestine. The two primary sponsors of the bill are Democrat Ben Cardin of Maryland and Republican Rob Portman of Ohio. Perhaps the most shocking aspect is the punishment: Anyone guilty of violating the prohibitions will face a minimum civil penalty of $250,000 and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years in prison.

The proposed measure, called the Israel Anti-Boycott Act (S. 720), was introduced by Cardin on March 23. The Jewish Telegraphic Agency reports that the bill “was drafted with the assistance of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.” Indeed, AIPAC, in its 2017 lobbying agenda, identified passage of this bill as one of its top lobbying priorities for the year:

The bill’s co-sponsors include the senior Democrat in Washington, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, his New York colleague Kirsten Gillibrand, and several of the Senate’s more liberal members, such as Ron Wyden of Oregon, Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, and Maria Cantwell of Washington.

There is similar legislation in the House, also sponsored by liberal heroes.

The ACLU wrote to members of the Senate to urge them to oppose and refrain from co-sponsoring the Israel Anti-Boycott Act (H.R. 1697/S. 720). The impacts of the legislation would be antithetical to free speech protections enshrined in the First Amendment and we urged members to oppose the legislation in the absence of significant revisions.

The Intercept notes that it was valiant of the ACLU to oppose the measure– “Even the bravest of organizations often steadfastly avoid any controversies relating to Israel” — and then does the yeoman journalistic labor of asking liberal Congresspeople whether they accepted the ACLU position. So far, no takers!

The Intercept also documented that a lead supporter, Senator Ben Cardin, had no idea what was in his bill, “particularly insisting that it contains no criminal penalties.” The piece contains an audio of an interview with Cardin.

What I can add to this story: If anything announces that a South Africa-style struggle has come to the U.S. over Israel, this story does. BDS is a nonviolent movement to put pressure on Israel to respect Palestinian human rights; and it arose 12 years ago from Palestinian activists because governments had failed to apply that pressure. All U.S. government pressure is on Israel’s side, as this bill shows. Israel vehemently opposes BDS because BDS has been effective; it has worked to put pressure on Israel and transform the politics of Israel around the world. Witness this bill. Benjamin Netanyahu gives speeches slamming BDS over and over, as an existential threat. Because he knows BDS helped to bring down apartheid South Africa.

This bill is the work of the Israel lobby. It was drafted by one of the lead Israel-support groups, AIPAC– “one of the most powerful, and pernicious, lobbying forces in the country,” as the Intercept puts it. Greenwald and Grim raise the issue of the American people’s interest:

In what conceivable sense is it of benefit to Americans to turn them into felons for the crime of engaging in political activism in protest of a foreign nation’s government?

I would answer that question frankly by explaining that the bill is about the Israel lobby’s presence inside the Democratic Party, and therefore of the role of conservative Zionist Jews inside the Democratic Party. The efforts by many to claim that the Israel lobby is also evangelical Christians (lately Paul Pillar at Lobelog) is pure deception when it comes to the Democratic Party. Evangelical Christians don’t tell Schumer and Gillibrand how to vote on stem-cell research or abortion, and they don’t tell them how to vote on Israel either. No, the organized Jewish community does.

Ultimately, this is a story about the fight inside Jewish life over Zionism and support for Israel. I believe we will win this fight, and that this legislation will help us. The legislation will shock many civil-liberties-loving Jews. The Intercept story will force legislators to redraft the legislation.

And, most important: a diverse coalition of human-rights-loving Democrats are enraged by this legislation and are organizing against AIPAC’s role in the party. Call it the Keith Ellison wing, the Sanders wing– young Jews, young Latinos, blacks, women — they want a more progressive policy on Israel and many of them support BDS. Bernie Sanders did not attend the AIPAC conference in 2016, because his base opposed such pandering, and that base is fighting for the heart of the party.

Lastly, remember this story and the frank declaration of support for a foreign nation by legislators the next time you hear about the insidious influence of Russia in our politics. As the Intercept notes, “Among the co-sponsors of the bill are several of the politicians who have become political celebrities by positioning themselves as media leaders of the anti-Trump #Resistance, including three California House members who have become heroes to Democrats and staples of the cable news circuit: Ted Lieu, Adam Schiff, and Eric Swalwell.”

Adam Schiff is worthy of special mention, as David Bromwich points out to me. “He is among the scores of obedient Democrats co-sponsoring the bill. Schiff has a high reputation in liberal circles, but he voted for the Iraq war, supported the Saudi intervention in Yemen, said the assassination of Qaddafi was ‘an end to the first chapter of another popular revolution,’ and approved of Trump’s bombing of Syria. On foreign policy he is a believer in the conventional wisdom of the Cold War and the War on Terror, that’s all; but his opinions have taken on an outsize importance since he is now routinely accepted as the party’s outstanding authority on Russia. He knows Russia about as well as he knew Iraq and Libya.”

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I had better warn the Irish President , Michael D Higgins .He welcomed Omar Barghouti in Ireland this week.Even shook his hand and congratulated him for his commitment to peaceful resistance to Israel,s policies. Most Irish leaders support BDS and view it as free speech.

I guess Ireland,s leaders will be persona non grata at St Patrick,s day celebrations in Noo Yoirk next year .

Even worse than that is , I shall have to postpone my trip to the US .I don,t have 250 K to throw around or 20 years left to spend in an American Gulag.

Mondoweiss comments policy specifically prohibits Anti-Semitism, and other forms of racism.
Yet Yonifalic, the Anti-Semitic meshumad and self-confessed war criminal, is tolerated by the moderators.
What’s the point of having a “comments policy”?

Thank you for calling my attention to Yonifalic and his comments, which I had not read before. I do not find them to be antisemitic, but rather insightful and fact-based. Reporting unpleasant truths about Israel and even about Jewish history does not make him antisemitic. I say this as a temple-attending Reform Jew who does not see facts or truth-telling as a threat to my Judaism. We need to be open to learning the unpleasant truths about our history and not be so quick to dismiss them as antisemitism.

How am I meshumad? My grandparents considered Judaism a silly and repugnant religion — a common attitude among the members of the 3rd Aliyah.

My parents consider Judaism a silly and repugnant religion.

After I came to the USA, I gave Judaism a try, but after studying in a Yeshiva for about a year, I concluded that contempt for Judaism was an area — maybe the only area — in which my grandfather was correct.

From the standpoint of my parents and grandparents, I would be meshumad if I became a hozer bitshuvah.

Jon you are here as a man of the left, but also fulfilling scripture in the holy land, enacting all riches of your profound tradition..

you didn’t see what a great opportunity Yoni Falic was for you to get out all the spiritual riches of your heritage, you end up doing a gestappo torquemada riff, why? This is your brother, suffering brother who left his peace of mind behind, he did his duty didn’t he, just didn’t survive fully whole or whatever, and you sneer, to what end, pronounce takfir, shit Jon you are hopeless.

when you give the meshumad class please for me special reference to a similar practise by the sons of Ishmael your allies our poor mistaken bretheren, but they at least are not two faced like you, they are openly bestial.

What you say about being called an apostate would only apply if the Jewish practice followed that of other religious systems. It does not.

Their calling you apostate (as per any texts) seems to only apply for those “who worship other gods”; ie examples of its being applied to non-believers are not easy to find. Also, in common practice it is only when someone intermarries or officially changes his religion that there is anathema pronounced, sitting shiva, etc. Definitely not when anyone makes any atheistic pronouncements –atheism is very well tolerated. In fact, no end of godless, or “epikouroi” (what a tribute the Hebrew misuse of the Greek term is to the force of Hellenistic skepticism!) seem to be acknowledged as being respectable Jews as long as they did not officially get baptized in another formal religion.

That behavior seems to apply as to the religious non-Zionists as well as Zionists. There is nothing better than such practice to prove without any other evidence that the concept of “Jewish” is exclusively racist.

Also, that poor confused soul of a John S has totally lost the plot: he’s accusing you of apostasy and using the precise term “meshumad” instead of “epikouros” when you have not converted to another religion. He’d never call “meshumad” Golda Mabova-Meyersohn or David Gruen now, would he? For the sole fact of having moved over from Zionism to its enemy.

By doing so, he is yet again giving away the game. His only religion is not Judaism but Zionism.

russgreen,
Yonifalic has repeatedly stated his hatred of Judaism, of Israel and of his own family. Check his archive and search for “hate”.
In his comment on this thread he wrote that ” the “antisemitic” stereotype is true” . If he’s not an Anti-Semite , I don’t know who is.

Yonifalic is now citing the comments policy because I called him a meshumad. I thought he was proud to be one.

Imagine a commenter writing that Islam is “silly and repugnant”. Or Christianity, or any other faith. Imagine a commenter explaining why he hates Islam, or any other faith. But Yonifalic is free to do so regarding Judaism.

“Imagine a commenter writing that Islam is “silly and repugnant”. Or Christianity, or any other faith. ”

Actually, Yoni told us what his ancestors thought about Judaism. He didn’t say Judaism was silly and repugnant.

But just to spare you the strain on your imagination, I will say that I think that Christianity is very silly and rather repugnant, and that Islam is somewhat less silly (but still silly) and rather more repugnant.

You have some knowledge, which I presume are mostly secondary gained from reading the ideas, thoughts and experiences of others that you think is enough to repudiate a religion that has been thriving across every human society for over 1500 years.

The only qualification you need to support your opinion, is your own view of your opinion? I find that hilariously narcisssitic and conceited.

Regardless, I do agree that there many Muslims, or perhaps those who present themselves as Muslims who are absolutely repugnant in all aspects of their character.

If you are really a student in Islam, you would know that every person is judged by God for their sins and no one can carry sins of another, nor can they bring others to sin. So the fact there are bad Muslims is irrelevant. Islam doesn’t have any clauses saying Muslims are automatically good, and being Muslim is a passive identity. It is a 24/7 lifetime commitment that many will struggle with throughout their stages in life. Thats why God specifically mentioned only He will be judge of all, because every single individual is His subject. He is not a God of Muslims, He is God. Muslims are by definition, those who submit to God. You could identify as a Hindu or an atheist or a Jew, it doesnt really matter if you submit to God. Its a game every single one of us need to play and anybody and everybody can win. Subconciously, I am sure many do realize this only without having to face the annoyance of labels like Muslims, Christians, Jews etc.

no argument with anything you say, I am not going to address the Simulcuz collective directly for they are legion as are their idiocies, let me as an immigrant Muslim come at this from a different angle

let us suppose that someone publishes cartoons say of the Prophet that are obscene, racist, in support of imperialism, satanism or whatever,

from a pure rational perspective, i know one whole heap about the social, cultural, psychic and political realities of an immigrant Muslim community, i am one of them,

what political or social gains are associated with demonstrations, albeit peaceful in this instance say, what can we possibly get from these actions, given the extraordinary costs, political and otherwise, how are we not empowering just those people who wish us ill by taking a leading role in this theatre of stupidity? this is not to say that there certain local positives sometimes, but overall the gains seem negligible when compared to the extraordinary costs, and the enormous boon to those who think that there is something wrong with us, to put it simply.

compared with as Mooser has implied in some other post compared with ignoring it, just ignoring it replying with a cartoon about self satisfied vacuous yuppies pretending at relevance or edgyness say,

what do we lose by ignoring this, i just can’t come up with a more cunning plan, don’t get distracted. As an Human Being if I rared up everytime someone was disrespectful I would waste vast amounts of energy to no good purpose.

let me a share a little hypothetical lets say everyone agrees, listen Hebdo that was right out order, say you’re sorry don’t do it again, what happens next year when shi’i start saying things about Abu Bakr, Umar and Aisha,

I mean if that rocks you not even a proper grown up, we have a mind with which to understand and find a productive way to engage,

Policing peoples other peoples minds is inherently unhealthy taking offence is just silly, thoughtless retaliation even if “justified” often has much greater ill effects than the original offence, ask any Rugby player.

Really, a Jihad against disrespect, Jesus wept, let them say what they want to say, reply? reply with something better,

we invited Rushdie over to shelter with us from the Muslims and the Ayatullah, but he never came or even acknowledged the offer, fucking rude.

“The only qualification you need to support your opinion, is your own view of your opinion? I find that hilariously narcisssitic and conceited.”

Comma after subject clause error.

OK, perhaps it is conceited to have the opinion that I know enough about Islam to make that judgement. How can I do better?

Perhaps I could try not making the judgement. I don’t make judgements about Cao Dai because I am of the opinion that I don’t know enough about it.

But that is my opinion about my own knowledge.

Bother.

Try again. I’ll get an opinion from someone else. Obviously, I won’t choose another random white guy, but rather someone who knows a lot more than me. I’ll choose gamal. He seems pretty random at times, but I’m fairly sure he’s not entirely white, and I am certain that he knows a lot more about it than I do.

Oh, wait. It is my opinion that gamal’s opinion would be better founded than mine.

Just can’t get away from my own opinions. I’m doomed to be narcissistic and conceited. Even if I can spell “you’re”.

“So the fact there are bad Muslims is irrelevant”

As is the number of Muslims, and the length of time Islam has been around.

It would be interesting to see if there’s a correlation between not supporting Obama’s deal with Iran over nukes and support for a bill to criminalize BDS?
Obviously they are different issues but do they engender similar support from Dem’s looking
to keep their locks on Jewish support (and contributors)?
Obviously Schumer and Cardin will be in for both but if true it would be disappointing if Schiff
were also part of that group.

I used to believe there were only two arguments that would really be effective in the USA against Israel.

Now I will add that Zionist subversion (the only word for this bill) is destroying the US political system.

Here are the other two arguments that I use.

(1) My host in Boston is something of a frenemy of Alan Dershowitz. He makes Dersh go wild when he argues that it’s vile and criminal after Auschwitz to found a state in post-Auschwitz genocide.

Thus I argue that we can either have international law or we can have Israel. Israel, which is a signatory to the International Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, is the primary post-Nuremberg example of the violation of the Convention. No one can possibly take international law seriously as long as white racist Euro Jews are given a pass to violate primary international law.

When someone says, we can’t just move several million Jews out of the ME, I just say that it’s not the 19th century. Removing racist colonial settler invaders is easy, they just get on a plane and go live elsewhere as my parents and I did.

(2) The other effective argument is the cost of Israel to the USA and to the West.

The total cost of Israel to the USA according to my cousin is about $30 trillion 2015 US dollars — close to 2/3’s of that for Germany, but Germany is a much smaller country. Israel has cost other Euro countries less but the amounts are significant.

It’s like the Middle Ages when Jews had their hands in every one’s pockets and were picking them. (The “antisemitic” stereotype is true — I can confirm as an historian.) In Yiddish the word for stupid person is gentile head. Now that everyone is equally literate and numerate, I don’t understand why anyone tolerates traditional Jewish con scams.

“we can either have international law or we can have Israel” The best way to deal with Israel’s violations of international law is to enforce international law. That is a job for the Security Council. There is no ‘death penalty’ in international law: if a state is recognized by other states then it exists and no-one can make it go away.

“Removing racist colonial settler invaders is easy”. You can describe those who arrived in Palestine before May 15, 1948 as racist colonial settlers, as well as those who have settled in Palestine, outside the borders of Israel, since 1967. Those who migrated legally into the recognized State of Israel are not racist colonialist settlers. Neither are any of those born in Israel who have stayed there.

If someone moves to a country and eventually becomes a citizen there following the local procedures and with the consent of the native society that is one thing. However, moving to a territory under the auspices of an occupying power (Britain) and then conspiring to dispossess the local inhabitants and destroy their society is an act of colonialism and a crime.

The Nuremberg IMT is a source of customary international anti-genocide law. It definitely provides for the hanging of genocidaires even those like Julius Streicher, who never harmed anyone but only incited or propagandized.

Yoni – In the past you claimed “as an historian” that King Herod was not the king of Judea, and that was false. Now, I would be curious to see how you “confirm as an historian” the antisemitic stereotype.

Yoni – In the past you claimed “as an historian” that King Herod was not the king of Judea

He didn’t claim, he stated that rex iudaeorum in that period is correctly translated as “King over the Jews” or somesuch, being what anyone would call a client administration / satrapy. So he is exceedingly correct, and correct as a historian –which the Nathan sure ain’t.

So, since you are full of praise, echinoccus, of Yoni’s historical assessments, should one assume that you also accept his confirmation of the antisemitic stereotype? And why did he connect between his anti-Israel comment and the anti-Semitic stereotype in the first place? Is he hinting that there is a connection between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism?

Before you get to spread “antisemitism” nonsense, “Nathan”, define it.

Any discrimination directed at characteristics at birth (ancestry, skin color, place of birth) is racism; it doesn’t need a special name as anti-thisorthat. Racism is exactly what Zionists are doing.

Anything related to or opposed to acquired characteristics, like religion, political choice, etc. is not racism; it’s perfectly kosher. No matter if you tie yourself into a pretzel or scream antisemitism.

—-
By the way, why do you write about this without even the most basic Latin and history knowledge about the nonsense you spout? You may be one of those Russians who were sly enough to profit from a racial “Jewish” identity to emigrate to the West, while avoiding the dangers of becoming an invader in Palestine, and now you can collect the Zionist PM’s Office / Propaganda Ministry / Hasbara Foundation stipends by writing subversive nonsense here. Is “Nathan” the brightest the Zionist Propaganda Ministry could recruit for a low stipend?

“So, since you are full of praise… of Yoni’s historical assessments, should one assume that you also accept his confirmation of the antisemitic stereotype?” “Nathan”

Of course not, “Nathan”. But I know “Yoni Falic” was raised in Israel, among Zionists, so I understand it.
I may not think it’s right, but I can sure understand why he thinks that way and in those terms.

You seem to be avoiding the question: “So, since you are full of praise, echinoccus, of Yoni’s historical assessments, should one assume that you also accept his confirmation of the antisemitic stereotype?” It’s not a very difficult question. You have sung Yoni’s praises as an historian, and lo and behold, he has given another statement as an historian. What do you make of it?

Do you still stand by your statement that the Ibrahimi Mosque is a medieval structure? It is, of course, a Second Temple era building (1st century BC) built by Herod, king of Judea. When I first mentioned this fact, our illustrious historian gave us a lecture about Herod’s roots, the background of the Palestinians, the nature of ancient Judaism and other interesting facts. However, there was just one thing that Yoni couldn’t bring himself to say: “Yes, the structure in Hebron was build by Herod, the king of Judea”. Why? Well, you don’t answer questions, but it’s all very obvious. You seem to believe that you can’t be a raving anti-Zionist while confirming at the same time any aspect of the Jewish narrative. The world might collapse if someone would dare say that there was a land (and kingdom) called Judea (the Romans called the country “Judaea”, the land of the Jews).

The “Nathan” can’t even understand he’s been fully answered. There is no ‘antisemitism’ except as racism based on ancestry, and Falic makes a fact-based, solid argument with no racism in it –he is himself biologically as “Jewish” as some “Nathan” as already explained over several posts.

The Ibrahim mosque is in part medieval; the pre-Christian structure is only part of it; the comparison to the Cordovan Mezquita is appropriate; there is no proof to connect it either to a “2d temple” that is the stuff of myth and legend and there is not enough evidence to date it the the Roman protectorate under Herod; Herod was not king of Judea but rex iudaeorum;
Iudaea was just one district of the region of Palaestina, one of the three Syriae as known by all schoolkids of civilized countries but the Nathan seems to only have been at some rabbinical Koran-reading school instead of the regular Soviet school.

Nathan: “You seem to believe that you can’t be a raving anti-Zionist while confirming at the same time any aspect of the Jewish narrative.”

The Jewish narrative was “raving anti-Zionist” before it was corrupted by Zionists.

Nathan: “The world might collapse if someone would dare say that there was a land (and kingdom) called Judea (the Romans called the country “Judaea”, the land of the Jews).”

Yeah, like the Kahane Continuum would implode if a Zionist would dare to accept the fact that there was a dependant State of Paletine under Mandate with a constitutive people called Palestinans and only they (and neither illegal immigrants nor refugees) had the right to self determine the future by majority ruling.

Echinoccus – The use of the term pre-Christian would be just fine. Obviously, it’s your way of dating the building correctly without having to say that the building was built in Second Temple times by Herod, king of Judea. Yes, pre-Christian could be understood as 1st century BC (as is the correct date for the structure). You should note that the term Palestina was used by the Roman Empire only after AD 135. In pre-Christian times (i.e during the time of the Second Temple when Herod built the wonderful structure in Hebron in the 1st century BC) the country was still called “Judaea” (the land of the Jews).

I noticed that you put the 2nd Temple in quotation marks. You didn’t say that you deny the existence of the 2nd Temple, but the quotation marks are a hint to something. In the beginning you claimed that the structure in Hebron is medieval, but now you admit that part of it is pre-Christian. Of course, it would be more polite to say that you were wrong, but I understand your intention. Now, I’m curious to know if you are maintaining that the 2nd Temple is myth.

Talkback – I have never seen any Mandate-era document that uses the term State of Palestine. Anyway, today’s citizens of the State of Israel are not refugees or illegal immigrants. I understand that in the anti-Israel world time stands still. However in the real world of here and now, the State of Israel is soon to be 70 years old. A child born today in Tel-Aviv is probably the grandchild or even the great-grandchild of a person who was born in Israel. Maybe you would like to argue that the great-great-grandfather had no right to found the State of Israel. It’s really a very interesting point of view, albeit quite irrelevant.

Nathan: “Talkback – I have never seen any Mandate-era document that uses the term State of Palestine. ”

Of course not. The state was called “Palestine”, not “State of Palestine”. That’s for example the term you will find in Palestine’s bi- and multilateral state contracts with other countries. I use the term “state of Palestine” to highlight the international status of Class-A-Mandates.

Or were you refering to the fact that the Hasbara cult has to ignore that Palestine was a state under mandate?

Nathan: “Anyway, today’s citizens of the State of Israel are not refugees or illegal immigrants.”

Of course not. They are citizens of the State of Israel. I said that most Jews in Palestine 1948 were NOT citizens of Palestine, but illegal immigrants and refugees. And I’m being even fair and don’t refer to the ‘legal’ immigration of foreign settlers which was enforced upon the natives and a flagrant violation of their rights to self determination.

Nathan: “I understand that in the anti-Israel world time stands still. However in the real world of here and now, the State of Israel is soon to be 70 years old.”

I understand that in the Kahane Continuum a straw man argument is considered a sign of intelligence.

Nathan: Maybe you would like to argue that the great-great-grandfather had no right to found the State of Israel.”

Oh no, it’s not an argument at all. I haven’t read so far ONE plausible argument why immigrants should after 1945 have the right to create a state. Especially if their immigration was enfored by another country.

Nathan: “It’s really a very interesting point of view, albeit quite irrelevant.”

I understand that in the Kahane Continuum expelling Nonjews and violating their right of self determination is as “quite irrelevant” as are any other atrocities and crimes against humanity Zionist settler colonialism has produced and still is producing. In the real world it’s not.

Talkback – You spend a lot of time and energy crying over spilt milk. Let’s assume that your point of view is absolutely correct (that illegal immigrants had no right to found a state). So what? The State of Israel was founded, and this is already very old news. There are more issues that you might want to cry about. For example, the State of Israel is a big success story. Its population has grown more than ten-fold since 1948, its economy is very strong, life expectancy is very high, its universities are excellent, etc, etc, etc. It doesn’t seem too likely that everything will be undone. But if you insist on spending your time on the question of the right to statehood for illegal immigrants who have probably passed away (or who are now very, very old people), that’s okay. Everyone is entitled to a hobby.

Nathan: “Talkback – You spend a lot of time and energy crying over spilt milk.”

I understand that in the world of Zionists expelling, dispossesing and disenfrenchising Nonjews is as irrelevant as spilling milk.

Nathan: “Let’s assume that your point of view is absolutely correct (that illegal immigrants had no right to found a state).”

Nathan, do the Nonjewish citizens of Israel have a right to create a state within Israel? Especially through war and expulsion?

Nathan: “So what?”

Exactly. The victims are NOT Jews, right?

Nathan: “But if you insist on spending your time on the question of the right to statehood for illegal immigrants who have probably passed away (or who are now very, very old people), that’s okay. Everyone is entitled to a hobby.”

See Nathan, that happens as often as Zionists are ‘crying’ about the “legitimacy” of Israel. I just correct this. Not to educate Zionists, because they are educationally impaired, but so that others see tha a typical Zionists FAILS to give just one plausible argument why the creation of Israel was legitimate and Israel has a “right to exist”. And then I cry, because I’m laughing. Especially when they try to praise Israel exactly like others praised Nazi Germany without saying a single word about the atrocities the commit to other people.

You can “confirm” as an “historian” that the stereotypes about Jews are correct. That is really rich coming from somebody who just admitted they were indoctrinated and brainwashed into despising the religion of his people from an early age. It sounds like he despises his own people as well if he even considers himself to have ‘people’ in the first place as he evidently thinks both to be “repugnant” based on obviously extensive ‘historical’ research. In fact, I think I can remember some posts where the totally (and historically) debunked theory about the origins of Ashkenazi being wrapped up in the history of a Turkic people of ancient times called khazzers. Not that anything in particular is wrong with khazzers or other turkic tribes but the Jew/khazzer theory is ridiculous, unproven by genetic testing and primarily an argument used specifically by those who are interested in delegitimizing any connection between Judea, Samaria and European Jewry.

. But as for banning any comments by YF? It would be ridiculous as people like yf are the bread and butter of. MW. Owner pw had devoted considerable energy to building up this very specific blog which is devoted to a very specific viewpoint of Jewish history, European history and the history of the ME. This is what mw is all about. It can be entertaining to call out hypocrisy when one finds it here but I wouldn’t expect the moderators to ban comments generally favorable to their core.

The moderators tolerate quite a bit of harsh criticism from pro Israelis so it’s kind of pointless to complain about a privately owned site with no obligation to print anything critical of their articles and commentary except for the owners own view of what constitutes credibility.

The non-genetic evidence is at the very least clear and convincing to show that Eastern European Jews descend almost entirely from Slavs and Turks that converted relatively recently to Judaism while the native Palestinian population descends almost entirely from the populations (Judeans, Samarians, Galileans, Idumeans, etc.) that lived in Greco-Roman Palestine.

I consider those “Jews”, who refuse to accept their Slavic and Turkic origins and who try to steal the heritage and history of Palestinians to be pathetic self-haters.

read those b4. Ho-hum.* They were debunked almost immediately on assorted grounds and the first is not actually disputing dna credibility. Look for the DNA markers that many levant Arabs, Berbers and other me people share with eastern euro Jews. it’s not magic. if you care, there is a tribe in south africa who has an oral history so similar to biblical Judaism that this tribe claimed for decades it was descended from Jews in the levant. Along comes dna and surprise, they share similar dna markers prove a strong similarity with ashkinasi Jews as well as other me people’s. But this is strictly sidebar information for dedicated Israel haters.

So, I guess as a serious ‘historian’ you missed class on the day they explained that the biggest number of judeans fled West across North africa and then on to spain, then up through western Europe into Poland,russia, ukraine etc. Like dude….duh.

Is it possible some Jews from the Babylonian exile migrated northeast through Persia into the caucases? Possible. But jews that stayed in the now Iraq/iranian area never migrated out en masse until modern Israel was created and they were kicked out, threatened out, checked out, stolen from and made refugees. And now you can cue to the Palestinian hasbara about Zionist operatives planting fear in Jews forcing them to flee Muslim lands without just cause.(the iraqis just figured, ‘hey, if these jews are leaving anyway lets steal every cent and centimeter from them just for fun’ .). hence, the wealthiest concentration of Jews in the world outside europe, some there over 2000 years were cleansed in a flash. But let’s not get into Zionist vs. Palestinian hasbara for now. Suffice to say I am aware of your views on this and many other topics related to the creation of Israel.*

* I would add that the theory of khazzer Jews is certainly romantic even if impossible to prove. There are some obscure but interesting ancient accounts of. massive battles fought by khazzers against usurping Arab and Muslim colonialist hordes. eventually defeated and supposedly the king given the choice to convert to either jew or muslim (a HIGHLY suspect and seriously contentious story). to claim that center of Jewish life in eastern and western Europe , the intensive study of torah interpretation by the educated class was born out of the warrior khazer kings is not only fanciful but farcical as well.
. But then, it helps Israel and jew haters to mentally define askinazi as something entirely different from the compliant jewish dhimmis that were conquered and colonized by the Arab plan to islamasize the entire ME. So, make them khazzers who morphed into zionist which is much easier to portray as an evil, suspect and worthless people who simply have an obsession to steal, NOT their own former homeland in the steppes , but Judea and Samaria from the simple Palestinian folk who have been there forevR.

Thanks, Phil, for reminding us of the crucial fact: “No, government pressure was on Israel’s side, as this bill shows.”
And thanks from all who believe in detente with Russia for your (witty) insight about Adam Schiff and his dangerous yet unproven cant about “the Russian attack on our democracy”: Schiff “is now routinely accepted as the party’s outstanding authority on Russia. He knows Russia about as well as he knew Iraq and Libya.”
Please tell your Friend “Thanks!”

“…is working in putting pressure on israel…” . That might be true but is bds working as in working? Not at all, even the reverse might be true.

The comment on democratic hypocrisy on russia is right on

If the bill about bds is true, itz a bad bill not unlike so many of obamas bills

Phil is an eternal optimist so the buzz words about ‘older’ jews and aipac aipac aipac are expected. But it still cracks me up that pw believes aipac hold more power then:
Big oil
Big pharma
Big agro
Big insurance. ..

Aipac just grabs headlines because it’s ‘jewish’ news which holds an amazing amount of power in causing obsession amongst a certain set. Its a second tier lobby if that and were it not for the putting out names of individual doners would get as much coverage as the above mentioned lobbies. Monsanto surely causes more death, suffering and destruction by 10 to most of the world then the relatively small i/p conflict.

With the comment from the royal farce of saudi Arabia(talk about influence. Hah. Easier for hard left to focus on Israel.) With the positive acknowledgement of metal detectors at holy sites it appears progressive plans for wiping out Zionism are going in the wrong direction, again. Israel has never been in a better position as middleman/broker between russia, us, gulf states and iran staking out the new boundaries of the same old cold war going on since the early 20th century.

“Monsanto surely causes more death, suffering and destruction by 10 to most of the world then the relatively small i/p conflict.”

Can you please explain how Monsanto causes so much death, suffering and destruction? I only know it from its product ‘Roundup’ (glyphosate). It is a herbicide which kills plants very effectively by intercepting an enzyme pathway that occurs only in the vegetable kingdom. It is harmless to animal life. Suppression of weeds is essential to productive agriculture. I use gallons of the stuff on my land. If glyphosate was banned, there would be famines across the world.

DAVID GERALD FINCHAM- “Can you please explain how Monsanto causes so much death, suffering and destruction?”

Monsanto is involved with GMO seeds, including cotton seeds containing terminator genes, and has had a huge negative impact on farming in India where farmer suicides are rampant. I quote and link Vandana Shiva:

“Through patents on seed, Monsanto has become the “Life Lord” of our planet, collecting rents for life’s renewal from farmers, the original breeders.

Patents on seed are illegitimate because putting a toxic gene into a plant cell is not “creating” or “inventing” a plant. These are seeds of deception — the deception that Monsanto is the creator of seeds and life; the deception that while Monsanto sues farmers and traps them in debt, it pretends to be working for farmers’ welfare, and the deception that GMOs feed the world. GMOs are failing to control pests and weeds, and have instead led to the emergence of superpests and superweeds.

The entry of Monsanto in the Indian seed sector was made possible with a 1988 Seed Policy imposed by the World Bank, requiring the Government of India to deregulate the seed sector. Five things changed with Monsanto’s entry: First, Indian companies were locked into joint-ventures and licensing arrangements, and concentration over the seed sector increased. Second, seed which had been the farmers’ common resource became the “intellectual property” of Monsanto, for which it started collecting royalties, thus raising the costs of seed. Third, open pollinated cotton seeds were displaced by hybrids, including GMO hybrids. A renewable resource became a non-renewable, patented commodity. Fourth, cotton which had earlier been grown as a mixture with food crops now had to be grown as a monoculture, with higher vulnerability to pests, disease, drought and crop failure. Fifth, Monsanto started to subvert India’s regulatory processes and, in fact, started to use public resources to push its non-renewable hybrids and GMOs through so-called public-private partnerships (PPP).” (Vandana Shiva) http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-seeds-of-suicide-how-monsanto-destroys-farming/5329947

If the Zionist as a whole suddenly forswore herbicides and/or GMO products, would we switch our support to the Zionists?

The Abu Bakr thing gets rightly swatted by Fincham for using some interintussusceptionality not even fit for gossip at an organic farmers’ market in the defense of invaders and genocidaires –and you guys just can’t help getting sucked in. In the future let’s debate that in http://escijournals.net/JPBG.

Facts are facts. It is hardly getting “sucked in” to comment on an important issue, even if off topic. And not everything a Zionist says is wrong. My desire to broaden David Gerald Fincham’s perspective has merit in its own right. Furthermore, I am not exactly a fan of agri-business and their business model, nor the pursuit of genetic tinkering mislabeled as genetic engineering, a label which implies too much precision to a process which can have extremely serious unforeseen consequences.

. Wether you understand it or not the real world runs on diversion, level of importance to the majority, truth versus propaganda, who owns the so-called truth and what is it?
. My point has always been that there are vastly more powerful and more influential lobbies in the US that’s completely dwarf aipac. MW insists on presenting aipac as one of the largest, most influential, most insidious, most corrupt, etc. lobbies in existence and it’s simply NOT true. Just because somebody yells ‘whatabout-ism’ , diversion or sticks their fingers I their ears and sings la la la la lah doesn’t change the facts. It’s like discussing the power dynamics of Russia and the US and someone mentions China and everybody yells, “diversion!”

In this case and in yours the complaint about diversion is pathetic.

And BTW: Palestinians and Palestinian activists are trained in and utilize their own version* of hasbara as much as Israel and possibly more successfully in the past few years then the “zio-nazis”

* In Israel there is no specific word for ‘propaganda’ . Look up the hebrew translation for ‘version’ because that’s all it is and all its about.

I mean, could you just imagine what would be written here at mw if it was Israel that hatched 18 fanatical Israeli settlers to train and crash the wtc. Oh, right. I forgot there are so many folks here who believe it really was Israel who took down the towers. Ok, so what anybody but the totally crazy conspiracy nuts would be saying about our friend an ally. Why has KSA been given an absolutely pain free pass on starting the ridiculous ‘war on terror’ more properly known as ‘how to grow dozens more al-quadas in under 5 years. Seems like ksa has enough pull to silence any real effort to punish kingdom. Israel can’t even put the small by comparison USS liberty bombing behind it even with a serious apology, compensation paid and another strong apology. What kind of influence is that that Israel can’t silence bad press on the 50yr old calamity when KSA can silence the msm on 9-11 almost in totality.

The point is not to enforce. It is to intimidate by showing that there is no Constitution and no guaranteed rights and liberties, so that any arbitrary action is always possible against anyone. Just as the unprotested and now established cancellation of the First and Fourth by Obama, no need to enforce it systematically: it just chills the majority.

I guess the law this resembles is the material-support-for-terrorism law which defines “terrorism” and “material support” so vaguely that someone who gives to a charity which then supports, say, a Hamas-run social service would be guilty of “material support”. The law may not be broadly applied at the moment but it could be in the future. Still, I have to wonder how the BDS law would work, given the large number of people supporting BDS.

No offense to your personal views but you might want to take a gander at some news outlets that are just a tiny bit to the right of the hard left(like MW) before you state that “so many” people support bds. I think the actual numbers, especially in the US are pretty miniscule compared to what the vast majority of left-, leaning, liberal, center sitting democrats and republicans(the biggest % of pro israel voters in my personal opinion and the right leaning republicans. Even the hard right has its share of Israel supporters for whatever screwy reasons some of them have about racial purity(which is something you’ll never hear discussed in Israel while it’s often alluded to here on MW in reference to Jewish Zionist and Israel supporters)

I just don’t think the numbers are very big unless your just counting Ireland separately. Or the second tier mediocre British universities as a bloc. Or Pakistan as a whole. Or just Roger waters fans.

I think the question here is what constitutes “large”. The U.S. is such a large country that if 1% of Americans support BDS, that will be about 3 million people. Even if only .1% support BDS, that is still 300,000 people.

Instead of trying to fix the economy or end the wars, Congress is giving us this crap to deal with.

“At the ‘Ambassadors Against BDS’ conference in New York last month, former Israeli government advisor Gidi Grinstein said that ‘in 2016 our community probably invested 20 times … more resources in dealing with this problem compared to what we invested in 2010.’ Yet despite these tens of millions of dollars spent combating BDS, Grinstein asked: ‘why are we not winning?’

“Leaked report highlights Israel lobby’s failures”
Excerpts:
“The Reut Institute, founded by former government advisor Gidi Grinstein, has conceded in a secret report jointly prepared with the ADL that Israel’s efforts to thwart the Palestine solidarity movement have failed.

“Key Israel lobby groups have conceded that they have failed to counter the Palestine solidarity movement, despite vastly increasing their spending. The admission is contained in a secret report that The Electronic Intifada has obtained.”

EXCERPT:
“Israel is increasingly concerned with the successes of the boycott and divestment efforts. In 2014, foreign direct investment in Israel dropped 46 per cent from the previous year, in part, a United Nations report said, because of BDS efforts.

“These initiatives are taking hold at North American universities, churches and trade unions, where many institutions are dropping investments in Israel or Israel-connected companies. In Europe where hundreds of academics and entertainers are personally boycotting Israel, major companies such as telecom Orange and water company Veolia are pulling out of Israeli ventures, and some EU governments are putting warning labels on products produced in Israeli West Bank settlements.”

http://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/pensionregulationsillegal/
“Judge tells Government: allow BDS” by Mike Cushman June 22/17
“A High Court judge has ruled that the Government was exceeding its power in trying to direct Local Government Pension Funds to ignore calls for BDS and abandon ethical investing. The Government, he said: ‘has acted for an unauthorised purpose and therefore unlawfully’.“

“Jamie Potter, Partner in the Public Law and Human Rights team at Bindmans LLP said: ‘This outcome is a reminder to the Government that it cannot improperly interfere in the exercise of freedom of conscience and protest in order to pursue its own agenda.’ This goes beyond a welcome victory for BDS campaigners. All supporters of the right to free expression and the right to oppose Government policies will welcome this push back against executive over-reach.”

Look, if your comfortable believing skewed presentations on the efficacy of bds from an extremely anti-israel anti-zionist blog (along with regular posting on the other premier Zionist-hating site mw then that is your sphere of information and and opinion formation.

. But, if you really believe that bds is successfully harming our economy I think you should broaden your horizons with at least some reading on international affairs, Jane’s, etc.
If bds idea of great ‘success’ is soda stream, well that’s kind of a joke, especially since they have reopened and are trying to arrange busing for the former Arab employees still hoping to get their old jobs back.

Bds has mostly been successful as a big PR stunt which is pretty much the ONLY way groups like BDS, JVP, SJP , codepink and others can claim success. They have bought themselves msm attention. And even if Israel had to spend many millions more to counter bds it is not to stop its economic effectiveness but to counter the Palestinian hasbara and make sure Americans know what bds is from the Israeli pov.- or more hasbara if you like. I understand you have dozens of serious arguments for the legitimacy of bds but really, the conflict Is fought in the realm of expensive Madison ave. PR which, despite bds cries of ‘grassroots!” Is funded by billions in Euro and American ngo money. Money that surely didn’t go towards bettering the lives of Palestinian Arabs in either Gaza or Samaria and Judea. The other billions go into the Abbas syndicate which makes tony soprano look like a teenage shoplifter.

So let me follow the trail here. It will be a Federal Offence deserving of punishment up to but short of execution by lethal injection to support boycotts of Zioland but it will be not an offence of any kind to object to boycotts of Russia , North Korea or Iran because the latter would contravene the American Constitution ( there appears to be an entirely different American Constitution when it comes to all things Zio).

No. No need. No one has ever called any of these countries “the only democracy in [Asia, the Middle East, the Caribbean]. The United States doesn’t subsidise them to the tune of a few billion dollars a year. They cannot make the American government dance to their tune. (Well, maybe Russia can now.) Political leaders don’t say we share the same values. (Well, maybe that’s changing too!)

Bertold Brecht said that everyone should speak about their own disgrace. That’s what we’re doing.

And I can’t believe that even the likes of Neil Gorsuch – even the late Antonin Scalia! – would uphold this law.

No, but to my knowledge, none of the countries you list is receiving well over $10 million in aid each and every day from American taxpayers (much more when private donations from individuals and organizations are included) as well as access to America’s most sophisticated aircrafts, missiles and other weaponry. Also, I remind you that the US and other countries have invoked sanctions against North Korea, Russia, Iran and Cuba.

Oh sure, there are literally dozens of articles on all of the BDS movements against all these other countries. And I’m also sure all of the supposed activists organizing these phantom bds are locked up tight in somebody’s jail.

But your main idiotic problem is that BDS doesn’t focus on other people, too, which suffer from seven decades of settler colonialism, ethnic cleansing, dispossession, denationalization, disenfrenchisement, occupation, illegal annexation, illegal settling in occupied territories, stealing of resources from these territories, endless war crimes and violations of their human and fundamental right.

This Bill also targets boycotting Occupied Palestinian Territory [OPT]… “While the measure is aimed at the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, it also targets efforts by the United Nations and the European Union to distinguish products manufactured in Israel from those manufactured in West Bank settlements”. [Jewish Telegraphic Agency] Think about that, by advocating for Boycott of products made by illegal settlers in OPT which are well documented war crimes.. $1 million dollar fines and 20 years in prison, talk about overeach. They should have really overeached themselves by inserting in the Bill those found guilty of opposing war crimes, will be tortured and then put to death, I have no doubt some would support that also.

What you’re doing is blaming the victim. You assume that the persecutions the Jews suffered over the centuries were somehow caused by their actions. And you repeat the tired theme of “Jewish money”, subversion and control. As a Jew yourself ,it looks like you’ve internalized the anti-Jewish stereotypes.

“Jewish money” is a reality. (As I understand it, from my schoolboy days), the Bible forbids usury, the lending of money at interest, I suppose because it leads to the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. In medieval Europe, on the base of the Bible, it was illegal for Christians to lend money at interest. However, the Jewish theologians decided that although it was forbidden for Jews to lend to Jews, but they could lend to non-Jews. This is how Jews became the bankers, and some became very rich indeed. Christians who wanted to invest in business had no alternative but to go to the Jews for money. This tended to cause some resentment.

Whether or not my history teacher was correct, it is certainly true that Zionist money is being used to corrupt the democratic process in the USA by the large amounts given to the election campaigns of politicians willing to support their cause.

You doubt it? Hasn’t your own experience and observations comported perfectly with that synopsis of Jewish history? Hasn’t it withstood every investigation, abided all questions, and come out smelling “mighty lak a rose”?

Besides, the pattern obtains throughout the entire world, doesn’t it? Where ever men oppress other men, and wish to do them harm, they make them their bankers and financiers! That’ll teach ’em.

Dr. Fincham,
Even assuming that the role Jews played as bankers caused resentment in the medieval world, that hardly explains the persistence and intensification of anti-Jewish attitudes in later periods.
In Spain and Portugal the Jews were persecuted and ultimately expelled despite the fact that they were not typically money-lenders or bankers in those lands.

In my view the Jew is not hated for what he DOES but for what he IS.

As to “Zionist money” or “Jewish money” : in a democracy, citizens have the right to organize and lobby for causes they believe in. So we have a gun lobby, an oil lobby, evironmental lobby, pro-choice and pro-life lobbies and so forth. And many of those lobbies raise lots of money for their causes and play hardball politics . I don’t see what makes Jewish lobbies unique.

JON S- “In my view the Jew is not hated for what he DOES but for what he IS.”

Could you be more specific about what exactly a Jew IS? What is the common thread between an Orthodox Jew, a Reform Jew and a secular Jew which results in this claimed hatred? And how to account for this (dare I say it?) IRRATIONAL hatred? An anti-Semitic Gentile gene, perhaps?

Keith,
What I mean is that in medieval Europe the Jew was the ultimate OTHER. They were different: in their beliefs, customs , rituals, in the food they ate, the wine they drank, even their sex life. That’s where we may find the sources of anti- Jewish sentiments.

in medieval Europe the Jew was the ultimate OTHER. They were different: in their beliefs, customs , rituals, in the food they ate, the wine they drank, even their sex life.

The arch-racist is speaking for himself, I guess, i.e. for his particular Ashkenazi / Lechli sect, who are for him the sole and exclusive members of the “Jewish” tribe-or-race –or whatever he imagines. Imagine any of the others being so “different” or having to screw through a hole in the bedsheet.

And yeah, of course even in the Russian Empire no other ethnicities had their peculiar habits or funny hats, eh? Only just the Eskenazi. Yarright.

John S is probably the most ignorant of any history on this site –as is fit for a Zionist “history teacher”:

In Spain and Portugal the Jews were persecuted and ultimately expelled despite the fact that they were not typically money-lenders or bankers in those lands.

Oh po’ baby! Only you were singled out personally, were you? You never heard about the usual Constantinian doctrine of a single religion in a single realm, have you, or the millions massacred in those 1800 years or so for heresy?

Your Z teachers only talked about Holocaust(TM), never about the long Muslim occupation of Spain, the Muslim-Jewish integration, the Reconquista and the single-religion establishment that totally got rid of the Moors (and, almost incidentally, the Jews.)

Now, do like you don’t even know what we’re talking about if we remind you cavemen that the main country in the world that violently applies the single religion doctrine is… the Zionist entity. Repeat: what Fernando and Isabella were doing to all non-Catholics about 1500 is being done (but with a lot more deadly casualties) by your shitty little Zionist state TODAY.
Its allies Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are almost as horrible, I’ll give you that.

Listen Jon don’t fall for the Goy propaganda, not only were they quite various they were pretty savage with each other or are you saying Goys went home to a quiet Goyish suburb after a hard day OTHER(ing) Jews, loads of different Goys out there Jon, they must have varied even in Medford, thats not near Stepford is it?

JON S- “They were different: in their beliefs, customs , rituals, in the food they ate, the wine they drank, even their sex life.”

Putting aside your knowledge concerning the sex lives of medieval Jews versus Gentiles, you seem to be contradicting yourself. You initially stated that Jews were hated (I dispute this, but let us put that aside) not for what they did, but for what they were. Now you seem to be saying that a Jew is what he does. Curiously, you seem to be ignoring the social function Jews filled in medieval Europe and how that may have contributed to anti-Semitism. Furthermore, I have yet to see anyone on Mondoweiss make a compelling case that Jews in medieval Europe had it worse than the peasants, that is the majority of Gentiles. Two quotes for you:

“There was nothing particularly unusual about the social and economic position of the Jews in medieval and early modern Europe. Many agrarian and pastoral societies contained groups of permanent strangers who performed tasks that the natives were unable or unwilling to perform.” (p4, “The Jewish Century,” Yuri Slezkine)

“…during the whole of the classical period the Jews, in spite of all the persecutions to which they were subjected, formed an integral part of the privileged classes.” (p52, “Jewish History, Jewish Religion,” Israel Shahak)

“And many of those lobbies raise lots of money for their causes and play hardball politics . I don’t see what makes Jewish lobbies unique.”

No, they are not unique, but they are the most effective because they have the most money. What I am really complaining about is the corruption of the democratic process in the US that makes this possible. Here, in the land of the Mother of Parliaments, politicians are not allowed to take money from lobbyists: political parties are not allowed to buy TV advertising; other advertising is limited; candidates are strictly limited in the amount of money they can spend on their campaigns.

“They were different: in their beliefs, customs , rituals, in the food they ate, the wine they drank, even their sex life.” “Jon s”

How is a Jew’s sex life different? Please tell us. You have stressed this more than once, “Jon s”
Is it better or worse than say, a Muslim’s or Christian’s sex life?

Oh wait, are you trying to tell us that circumcision is done deliberately to affect the sex life of the Jewish male? What does it do? Or is it all too dirty to talk about except in generalized terms like “different sex life”?

Medieval Jews and Christians were highly conscious of religious differences and a dark stain was left on the Christian side as a result. The question of who was the most ‘other’ is difficult. Heretics and those accused of sorcery were not clutched to orthodox bosoms. But the modern Christian or post-Christian world is marked not only by these ideas of otherness but also by the fact that we have tried to reject them, i.e. put aside medieval versions of identity politics.
Christians and Jews were not entirely strangers to each other’s sex lives in medieval Spain, which was one reason why the Inauisition got so neurotic about purity of. blood. King Ferdinand himself was supposed by some to have some blood whose purity could be questioned.

But the modern Christian or post-Christian world is marked not only by these ideas of otherness but also by the fact that we have tried to reject them, i.e. put aside medieval versions of identity politics.

.

Very largely true. While the Jewish (limitedly to its majority, i.e. Zionist) world has furiously retrograded to the stone-age version of identity politics.

For all the adolescents excited by the mention of sex, I’m referring to what’s known euphemistically as the laws of “family purity”. For those who are ignorant of the subject, I’ll pass on explaining them myself.

I believe this will be the overreach that initiates the end-stage of Israeli/Zionist influence on the US govt. For five-thousand years the Jews have demonstrated a consistent pattern of behavior that generated a consistent reaction: the Jews settle somewhere, become successful and prosperous, and all of society benefits. Then, economically out-competing the locals, the Jews become politically powerful as well, and use their political power to disadvantage the local people. This then, closing the circle, leads to “reaction” — “pushback”, “blowback”, “anti-semitism”, “persecution” — and the Jew are chased off — or worse — to settle somewhere else and start the cycle yet again.

This “million dollar fine and 20-year prison term” for Americans, for the “crime” of criticizing Israel, feels like the final overreach that will bring the full extent of Zionist penetration and control of the US govt into clear view, and awaken the American people to their personal subjugation arising from the subversion of US democracy by Jewish money.

Israel could safely control the US as long as it could control “the narrative”. But the internet broke their monopoly and put an end to that control. The truth was set free and has been gaining ground ever since. I predict that this latest Israel-first legislative assault on the Constitution will accelerate the unraveling of US citizen support for the Zionist criminal parasite.

jeff davis – I’d be curious to hear an example of the Jewish behavior that you have described from five thousand years ago (I’d be curious to hear a name of a Jew from five thousand years ago). You should note that in recent history (the Holocaust), the vast majority of those murdered were very, very poor people. They were murdered because of a racial policy of Germany – not because they had political power. You don’t have the slightest understanding of Jewish history, neither ancient times nor recent times.

Ultimately this is a story about the fight inside Jewish life over Zionism and support for Israel. I believe we will win this fight, and that this legislation will help us. The legislation will shock many civil-liberties-loving Jews.

Do you really believe that it’s all about a barely perceptible stirring of protest within a solidly Zionist minority of 3% (also counting those who are not part of it!) causing the general change? “Jewish life” amounts to no more than the opposition between that almost-absence and the overpowering billions of Ziodollars.

You don’t even have a single anti-Zionist Sunday, oops Saturday school, fcol! The general American population is the one feebly pushing this change –there is nothing strange in that. That push would be way more effective if people had the sense to stop inbred politics and participate as just citizens.

… now, a group of 43 senators — 29 Republicans and 14 Democrats — wants to implement a law that would make it a felony for Americans to support the international boycott against Israel, which was launched in protest of that country’s decades-old occupation of Palestine. … Perhaps the most shocking aspect is the punishment: Anyone guilty of violating the prohibitions will face a minimum civil penalty of $250,000 and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years in prison. …

PHIL- “The bill is such a crude example of overreach by the Israel lobby that it is sure to backfire on its supporters as Greenwald and Grim’s report ricochets around the Democratic Party:”

I am not holding my breath. But thanks for this very important article and links. This is something which practically begs for folks to take action, hence, I sent the following email to my Senator Maria Cantwell:

“It is difficult for me to put into words how upset I am with your co-sponsorship of S. 720 “Israel Anti-Boycott Act.” This odious piece of legislation is a concrete example of Jewish-Zionist power to influence the US government to act contrary to the well-being of the American people. A power which dwarfs Russia’s negligible influence. What other country receives such privileged treatment? It isn’t bad enough that Israel, a rich country, continues to receive billions of dollars in aid? Now they want the US government to pass a special law to criminalize an American’s right to boycott when it involves this one special country? We all know that Israel receives special treatment in large measure because of the Israel Lobby and money power, but how much is enough? Has the power of the Lobby become so great that they can now rewrite the US constitution? I certainly hope that you re-evaluate your co-sponsorship of this authoritarian bill and remove your name as a co-sponsor.”

Keith- You and I both know that only love resides deep in your heart, but your senator doesn’t know that, and your reference to Jewish Zionist power might give her the wrong impression, that you are a hate nut.

parental lyric advisory white people swear so much but not too much you’ll be ok. i think theres a Phil in it, a baad Phil, but I think its a Rosen, maybe its him with all the hate, but love shack at the Macadamia Manor. also cool glasses, gorgeous little kid.

It seems to me not credible that members of Congress are still ignorant of the truth about Israel. So they’re all thinking, “Why should I stand up and get my political head chopped off by AIPAC?” What if the soldiers in George Washington’s army had been that cowardly? Cantwell and others’ willingness to crush freedom of speech is a disgrace. We need to find them a way out that saves face. Perhaps they could all issue statements that said something like, “I’m shocked! shocked! to find ethnic cleansing going on in Israel!”

You should have taken a different tack. Your going to be dismissed outright as a toxic Zionist conspiracy spouting anti Jew. The love for Israel among the population of US Christian and Catholics is stronger then the progressive+some libertarian fringe.

On the other hand, the bill, without my reading it and based on greenwalds often hysterical analysis sounds to be competent overreaching and normally I would assume it was some bizarre rider placed inside a trade bill. Seriously doubt all the Zionist hating lefties will feel anything from any branch of govt law enforcement even if this bill were to pass.

There is a better chance of Roger Waters being banned from long island

Don’t count on the “love for Israel among the population of US Christians and Catholics” continuing indefinitely. As with the rest of the American population, they (especially all important youth), are becoming increasingly aware of and disgusted with brutal occupier/ethnic cleanser Israel’s continuous and well documented crimes committed against Palestine’s indigenous essentially defenseless Arab inhabitants. So are young Jews. Thanks to a massive propaganda campaign (e.g., Leon Uris’s fictional “Exodus”) Zionism has had the support of most Americans born during and shortly after WWll. However, they are dying off and today’s youth in the US and around the world are learning the ugly truth. They are also anxious to become informed.

It’s really very simple. Zionism will not survive because it is inherently racist and based on theft and lies. Also, not enough Jewish Israeli babies along with falling Jewish immigration to Israel and increasing emigration. The handwriting is on the wall. You should read it.

FOLKS- For those interested, I have linked to an interview on this odious bill and to a copy of the ACLU letter opposing this legislation. From the interview and letter it would appear that the Bill itself is stealthily written. Nowhere does it specifically discuss legality and penalties. Instead, it refers to already existing legislation which it expands to achieve its desired outcome somewhat surreptitiously. That is, these legislators may not fully appreciate the ramifications of what they are supporting, a rather common occurrence I might add.

I support Israel. But as someone who cares about freedom of speech, religion, etc. I am definitely opposed to this law. People should be able to express their *peaceful* political opinions in the United States and other free countries.

BDS hardly warrants a law against it. It’s not the Nazis. If BDS has some ideas, let them rise and fall on their own merits. Many Jewish activists who fought for decades for the idea of a two state solution, including Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein, openly deride BDS since it goes against the international consensus and everything they’ve fought for. But no matter. The two state solution has clearly not worked for the people on the ground. The BDS has some ideas, they have freedom of speech like everyone else. Frankly I have seen BDS make a splash several years ago and now it’s pretty much died down. I don’t see much BDS stuff going on in New York, despite trying to find and attend one of their events to see what they’re about. So, a law criminalizing it? I bet this will be found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court pretty fast.

GregMozart, you say Professor Norman Finkelstein, openly derides BDS since it goes against the international consensus and everything they’ve fought for. Professor Finkelstein supports BDS in relation to property and investments in Occupied Palestinian Territory [OPT] If it is the case that the Professor does not support BDS of the state of Israel within the green line because of some International consensus about the legitimacy of Israels existence, then in my opinion he would be wrong since the settlement enterprise and claims of Israeli sovereignty over the West Bank are claims made by the Israeli government on behalf of the Israeli state, therefore BDS should be applied to the instigators of the settlements and claims, at least until that government complies with International law. As far as I am aware the BDS movement simply want Israel to comply with International law, and officially do not have hard and fast views on one or two states. In fact BDS have been accused of changing its constitution some years ago to Israel leaving Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, in effect recognising Israel’s existance within the green line.

Here is the change in the BDS movements goals…. In 2005, the BDS’s first goal demanded that Israel“End[ing] its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantl[ing] the Wall” (http://www.bdsmovement.net/call)

This represented a clear and brave challenge to the legitimacy of the Jewish State,

At some point BDS’s primary goal was changed significantly, it now reads: “Ending [its] occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall.” (http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro).

The BDS movement have been accused of changing its goals, my comment above reflects its first change, it has subsequently been changed again ..
“the BDS campaign has now decided to change its first goal once again. It now reads:

The 2010 embarrassing reference to the 1967 Israeli occupation is now removed. However once you read the small letters, you grasp that BDS is more of a JVP (Jewish Voice for Peace) rather than a Palestinian voice. Though the goal does refer, once again, to Israeli “colonization of all Arab land,” the statement now makes it clear that it limits its demands to territories occupied in 1967:

“International law recognises the West Bank including East Jerusalem, Gaza, and the Syrian Golan Heights as occupied by Israel. As part of its military occupation, http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/bds-changed-its-goal-statement-once-again
I support the two state solution and the implementation of International law, so I can only go along with the goals change of BDS, but still think that BDS should be applied to the Israeli state as recognised in International law within the green line, until it complies with International Law.

HarryLaw – You have expressed support for the two-state solution. This means that you envision an end-of-conflict scenario in which the State of Israel continues to exist. However, for some reason, you have not been attacked by all the commentators who can’t bear the idea of Israel’s permanency. No one has told you that “all the colonists must leave the country”, or that “only the Palestinians are legitimate residents”, or that you are a Zio-propagandist, etc. What’s the secret of your immunity from all the rude and abusive language?

Regarding the BDS, you should notice that in its website there is no mention of the end-of-conflict. There is no indication that when its demands are met (end of occupation, dismantling the wall, return of refugees, etc), the BDS movement regards the conflict to be resolved once and for all and accepts Israel’s right to live in peace. If, indeed, you have a vision of a two-state solution (one of those states being Israel, of course), then you should note that the BDS movement does not share your vision. The movement, like the commentators on this website, does not envision an end of conflict as long as the Zionist entity continues to exist.

Well, it seems Israel has ordered it’s subservient American servants to tighten the screws, free speech and freedom when it comes to Israel, will be a thing of the past. We are not the world’s greatest democracy anymore. That image is now a joke.
Being unaware of Schiff’s voting record, it is shocking to find out he is one of the main co-sponsors of the bill. Another Israel firster.

Maybe it is time all products made in Israel should be boycotted worldwide.

Being unaware of Schiff’s voting record, it is shocking to find out he is one of the main co-sponsors of the bill. Another Israel firster.

What exactly makes it shocking or surprising? So you’re “shocked” just like the guy in Casablanca, eh, to suddenly and unexpectedly discover that a Democrat with official title is of course a Zionist, duh. You still aren’t even acknowledging that your Bernie is no different, even the only relatively honest Democrat in the last 30 years, i.e. Barbara Lee, joined in the Ziofest.

Of course it’s past time to boycott anything Zionist –and the obstacle to that are your “two” parties, period.

Rick comes quickly up to Renault.
RICK
How can you close me up? On what
grounds?
RENAULT
I am shocked, shocked to find that
gambling is going on in here!
This display of nerve leaves Rick at a loss. The croupier
comes out of the gambling room and up to Renault. He hands
him a roll of bills.
CROUPIER
Your winnings, sir.
RENAULT
Oh. Thank you very much.
He turns

There was an article in the Forward today that quoted two of the bill’s supporters as saying that we have nothing to fear!

“Cardin and Portman argue that the ACLU and liberal activists are missing a key distinction in their bill. It does not, they argue, penalize American individuals and companies that chose to boycott Israel out of their own political beliefs, but only refers to those doing so in adherence to an international or foreign government boycott”

So if I am reading this right if you come to BDS completely on your own, with no “foreign” influence then you’re off the hook. But if you are taking your cue from the crazy Barghouti fellow, well prepare for the knock on your door in the middle of the night.

And how exactly will the authorities figure this out? I have sinking feeling that they will arrest first and ask questions later.

All it would take is one retweet of a BDS org tweet to show “influence.”

In any event, however one arrives at a pro-BDS belief, expressing that belief is completely, overtly, de jure, protected under the Constitution. That’s the fight, and the demonstrable litigation/able benchmark for how far we’ve fallen (or how much trouble we’re in)… all because of Israel.

Not only is Israel shattering the post-WWI body of IL/IHL, it’s taking full aim at the US Constitution. But I guess that’s just how they do things over there.

Israel BDS is nothing compared to the harsh, often inhumane sanctions so frequently imposed on countries by US govt. officials. There is not one case of sanctions yielding the desired result, e.g., leadership change, policy change, etc.

American legislators must get up off their knees and reject this Israeli Exception to the First Amendment.

Israel BDS is nothing compared to the harsh, often inhumane sanctions so frequently imposed on countries by US govt. officials. There is not one case of sanctions yielding the desired result, e.g., leadership change, policy change, etc.

But in this case the beauty of it is that no harsh or inhumane sanctions are necessary to get results. It’s enough to ban all American aid and support to Zionists. Stir lightly, wait about two weeks. Bury.

I feel like this is the equivalent of Congress passing a law requiring that everybody be a Christian. I mean, we have courts, right? So I have to believe that no court would uphold this law based on the 1st Amendment right of free speech. But, of course, devotion to Israel among our ruling classes continues to surprise, but the judges have lifelong tenure so I still see this as a laugher, more than something to be worried about.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has argued that the bill would “impose civil and criminal punishment on individuals solely because of their political beliefs about Israel and its policies”, in a letter sent to members of the Senate.

“In short, the bill would punish businesses and individuals solely based on their point of view,” it wrote. “Such a penalty is in direct violation of the First Amendment.” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/israel-boycott-crime-bill-settlements-senators-support-law-a7852101.html
Any person who does not do business with Israeli citizens or buy Israeli goods, should be interrogated by the authorities as to their state of mind, and if they ‘believe’ Israel should be Boycotted, a 20 year jail sentence will be neccessary. A lie detector test may be needed and/or enhanced interrogation techniques on, for instance, civil liberterians and people who read Mondoweiss.

Complete and shameful silence out of the pro war liberal interventionist (choke) at MSNBC. Maddow, Joy Reid, Chris Hayes, Matthews, O’Donnell etc silence on this issue as they cover the push for new sanctions against Iran and Russia.

We know if Melissa Harris Perry were still on MSNBC for her previous two hour show on Sat and Sundays she would more than whisper. Not Joy Reid..

Maddow…what is up with Maddow? Millions of dollars has her tongue tied

I will await your professional scholarly response. If you cannot find and produce the evidence to support your claim presumably being a civilised educated person you will withdraw the comment and apologise.

Let’s put the burden of proof on you, Ossinev. Give me the quote from the BDS website in which it is stated that “with the rectification of the grievances defined in the BDS website, we will conclude that the conflict has been resolved and that Israel has the right to live in peace” (or something of such nature). Actually, it would be interesting to hear your opinion as a private person. With the rectification of the grievances defined in the BDS website, would you say that the conflict with Israel will be resolved, and that Israel will have the right to live in peace? In the anti-Israel (or anti-Zionist) world, there is no end-of-conflict scenario in which Israel’s legitimacy is finally recognized. There are always grievances and grievances, but you never hear that with the rectification of these grievances the conflict will be resolved once and for all. I await the quote from the BDS website that defines the end-of-conflict and the acceptance of Israel’s permanency.

I just re-read the BDS web site. I think the simplest and quickest way for the Palestinians to enjoy equal rights and protections under the law in modern Israel would be an en masse conversion to Judaism.

You claimed that BDS “does not envision an end of conflict as long as the Zionist entity continues to exist”. It is your burden to prove your claim.

|| … In the anti-Israel (or anti-Zionist) world, there is no end-of-conflict scenario in which Israel’s legitimacy is finally recognized. … ||

In my anti-Zionist world, Israel can acquire legitimacy by:
– existing within its / Partition borders as the state of and for all of its Israeli citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees, equally;
– honouring its obligations under international law; and
– being held accountable for its past and on-going (war) crimes.

Your idea of “Israel’s legitimacy” seems to comprise Jewish supremacism in/and a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine. IMO there’s nothing legitimate about that, so there’s nothing to recognize.

Nathan: “I await the quote from the BDS website that defines the end-of-conflict and the acceptance of Israel’s permanency.”

BDS simply calls in its own words on its website for “nonviolent pressure on Israel until it complies with international law”. That implies BDS is not against Israel’s “permanency”, but against its “permanency” to not comply with international law.

But that’s of course dishonest as we all know that the violation of international law is essential to Israel’s kind of “permanency”, isn’t it Nathan? Permanent expulsion, permanent “eternal, undivided capital”, permanent dispossesion and disenfrenchisment, permanent settler colonialism …

Israel’s Permanency. Nathan, I think it’s simpler than you think. The goal of BDS as I understand it is that they want equal, human rights for all people in the land (some refer to this land as Israel, others as Palestine).

How much more basic can a demand be?

Now, if definitionally “Israel” to you means subjugation/ghettoization/ethnic cleansing of the non-Jews, would you really want that to be permanent? Where is your humanity?

@Nathan
I asked YOU to produce evidence from the BDS website and its stated objectives to support a claim which YOU had made and your response is to ask ME to provide YOU with proof that YOU are not wrong.

You obviously do not have the evidence to support your ludicrous claim and in a desperate attempt to save face have come up with an infantile response.

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