As expected, didn't felt much during the first 3 - 4 weeks. But at the end of the 4th week my nipples became puffy and with a slight burning sensation. Started with a low dose of 10mg ed of tamoxifen. A couple of days latter I started to feel many of the high estro side effects (high blood pressure, low libido, low energy, etc) and then started taking arimidex also (0.25mg eod). My nipples stop burning but still a little puffy.

Waited 10 days to see if the arimidex would control enough aromatization, but in the middle of the 6th week I still had the high estro side effects, but NONE of the high testosterone effect (strengh, resistence, pump, mood, oily skin, acne, confidence, libido, nothing!). Upped the arimidex dosage to 0.25 everyday but nothing changed.

I descontinued the cycle in the middle of week 8 because I was feeling sick and tired all the time which was affecting my workouts and everyday life and absolutely none of the expected effects of high testosterone (except my shrinking balls...), and also a different feeling in my liver, not pain. Even my naturally oily skin got dry! During the workouts I felt light headed and some times I had to stop training (low blood sugar?).

Waited 14 days to start pct with tamoxifen (40/20/20/10), and now, 20 days latter after my last injection I'm feeling much better and horny than was on cycle!!!

Some observations: after EVERY injection (only 0.83 ml) the injected muscle hurt badly for 8 days, had to limp for days after quad injections and was really affecting the quality of my workouts, and got a litle worse when I changed to the second vial. I read somewhere that the quality of the product may affect much of the results, like the amount of benzyl alcohol etc. I don't know if this is the case.

I've done a lot o research and didn't found nothing reasonably similar to what happened to me. Any ideias? I expected my test to be low as if I was injecting from some underdosed vial and just messing my hormones up.

It was the most frustrating experience. Any ideas if the culprit is the product or just test alone don't have any effects on me? Any precautions for future cycles?

You got bloodwork, man. Your product was legitimate. And everything you said regarding side effects confirms this.

Some thoughts:

Many people don’t respond well to quad shots, in terms of pain. I know several people who won’t do them at all because they’re often sore for days. This isn’t unusual. I’ve switched to delts almost exclusively for the same reason.

I doubt your research was as thorough as you seem to think it was, given how many people have had such similar experiences. On test alone, I had zero side effects, as long as I ran an AI.

Liver pain, back pain, and kidney pain can all feel about the same. So it’s really impossible, without a blood test, to confirm you actually had a liver issue. It’s also possible to get sick while using steroids (this should be obvious). Your potential sickness may or may not have been related to the steroids.

You’ve said nothing about how your workouts or muscular gains went while on cycle. I’m assuming they were shitty, since you didn’t mention them. This leads me to believe that your workouts probably weren’t as great as you think they are, and more likely, that your diet sucks. The fact that you seem to believe the most important things in a diet are water and multivitamins is disconcerting.

Don’t use steroids. You clearly don’t have what it takes to use them successfully. Consider this experience a lesson.

[quote]Igs wrote:
Sounds like you had shitty gear. Consistent pain after every pin and redness is often accompanied by fever and reduced energy levels. [/quote]

It’s possible, but I sort of doubt it, since he didn’t get those sides until week 8. Regardless, it certainly doesn’t appear that the gear was under-dosed. He should have at least made gains, even if he felt shitty by week 8. You can still get stronger with shitty gear, lol.

EDIT: I misread part of that. I thought the pain got better after a few weeks, not worse. That makes the shitty gear theory more likely.

I highly doubt anyone with the ability to tie his own shoe laces would ignore symptoms of persistant infection, even a low grade fever, for 8 weeks. He didn’t even even get his temperature measured when he went to the doctor for his blood test.

You got bloodwork, man. Your product was legitimate. And everything you said regarding side effects confirms this.

Some thoughts:

Many people don’t respond well to quad shots, in terms of pain. I know several people who won’t do them at all because they’re often sore for days. This isn’t unusual. I’ve switched to delts almost exclusively for the same reason.

I doubt your research was as thorough as you seem to think it was, given how many people have had such similar experiences. On test alone, I had zero side effects, as long as I ran an AI.

Liver pain, back pain, and kidney pain can all feel about the same. So it’s really impossible, without a blood test, to confirm you actually had a liver issue. It’s also possible to get sick while using steroids (this should be obvious). Your potential sickness may or may not have been related to the steroids.

You’ve said nothing about how your workouts or muscular gains went while on cycle. I’m assuming they were shitty, since you didn’t mention them. This leads me to believe that your workouts probably weren’t as great as you think they are, and more likely, that your diet sucks. The fact that you seem to believe the most important things in a diet are water and multivitamins is disconcerting.

Don’t use steroids. You clearly don’t have what it takes to use them successfully. Consider this experience a lesson.[/quote]

1 - quad was just an example. Pinned quads, delts and glute. All three the same pain.

2 - You missed the whole point. I’m not refering to side effects of high exogenous test, but the absence of the direct effects of hight test during my cycle.

3 - Yes, obviously, may or may not. So? Had a full metabolic panel, some values altered but nothing drastic indicating liver/kidney problems.

4 - You misread the whole text, read again, there is plenty of information about my workouts. I said my diet and training was ok. Consulted a nutritionist that is an ex pro bodybuilder and he was informed that I intended to use steroid. I have a complete meal and training plan adjusted to my needs made by a professional.

You got bloodwork, man. Your product was legitimate. And everything you said regarding side effects confirms this.

Some thoughts:

Many people don’t respond well to quad shots, in terms of pain. I know several people who won’t do them at all because they’re often sore for days. This isn’t unusual. I’ve switched to delts almost exclusively for the same reason.

I doubt your research was as thorough as you seem to think it was, given how many people have had such similar experiences. On test alone, I had zero side effects, as long as I ran an AI.

Liver pain, back pain, and kidney pain can all feel about the same. So it’s really impossible, without a blood test, to confirm you actually had a liver issue. It’s also possible to get sick while using steroids (this should be obvious). Your potential sickness may or may not have been related to the steroids.

You’ve said nothing about how your workouts or muscular gains went while on cycle. I’m assuming they were shitty, since you didn’t mention them. This leads me to believe that your workouts probably weren’t as great as you think they are, and more likely, that your diet sucks. The fact that you seem to believe the most important things in a diet are water and multivitamins is disconcerting.

Don’t use steroids. You clearly don’t have what it takes to use them successfully. Consider this experience a lesson.[/quote]

1 - quad was just an example. Pinned quads, delts and glute. All three the same pain.

2 - You missed the whole point. I’m not refering to side effects of high exogenous test, but the absence of the direct effects of hight test during my cycle.

3 - Yes, obviously, may or may not. So? Had a full metabolic panel, some values altered but nothing drastic indicating liver/kidney problems.

4 - You misread the whole text, read again, there is plenty of information about my workouts. I said my diet and training was ok. Consulted a nutritionist that is an ex pro bodybuilder and he was informed that I intended to use steroid. I have a complete meal and training plan adjusted to my needs made by a professional.

5 - yes mommy[/quote]

That doesn’t necessarily indicate an infection.

Susceptibility to the effects of elevated estrogen will negate this. Some even get gyno at 40.

You wanna know the secret to growing when you don’t grow? It’s so simple it will blow your mind. Eat more.

Now I really suspect you haven’t reached puberty. Maybe you really are a non-responder to testosterone.

If you still have the vial, check to see if ethyl oleate is in the preparation.
Some people don’t react well to it, and you will feel like crap for several days after injecting, lots of swelling and PIP.
High BA concentration is reputed to cause PIP, but most labs don’t use more than 1%, these days which is pretty safe.
Start off with the 0.25mg of adex on your next cycle and adjust from there. With a testosterone only cycle at bodybuilding doses most people are going to need it to stop aromatization.
For me in my first cycle It seemed to take a while for the strength increases to kick in 4-5 weeks. Once I mentally got over whether the gear I was using was legit( I became a greasy motherfucker, and got itchiness in the nips until I adjusted adex) I realized the increases in strength. I didn’t feel stronger until I actually tried to increase to poundages and then lifted them, and found myself to be stronger.
If you were feeling like crap on cycle from sides, I can imagine the quality of your workouts and your recovery, mental state were low so you were unlikely to want to stack the poundage on the bar?

You got bloodwork, man. Your product was legitimate. And everything you said regarding side effects confirms this.

Some thoughts:

Many people don’t respond well to quad shots, in terms of pain. I know several people who won’t do them at all because they’re often sore for days. This isn’t unusual. I’ve switched to delts almost exclusively for the same reason.

I doubt your research was as thorough as you seem to think it was, given how many people have had such similar experiences. On test alone, I had zero side effects, as long as I ran an AI.

Liver pain, back pain, and kidney pain can all feel about the same. So it’s really impossible, without a blood test, to confirm you actually had a liver issue. It’s also possible to get sick while using steroids (this should be obvious). Your potential sickness may or may not have been related to the steroids.

You’ve said nothing about how your workouts or muscular gains went while on cycle. I’m assuming they were shitty, since you didn’t mention them. This leads me to believe that your workouts probably weren’t as great as you think they are, and more likely, that your diet sucks. The fact that you seem to believe the most important things in a diet are water and multivitamins is disconcerting.

Don’t use steroids. You clearly don’t have what it takes to use them successfully. Consider this experience a lesson.[/quote]

1 - quad was just an example. Pinned quads, delts and glute. All three the same pain.

2 - You missed the whole point. I’m not refering to side effects of high exogenous test, but the absence of the direct effects of hight test during my cycle.

3 - Yes, obviously, may or may not. So? Had a full metabolic panel, some values altered but nothing drastic indicating liver/kidney problems.

4 - You misread the whole text, read again, there is plenty of information about my workouts. I said my diet and training was ok. Consulted a nutritionist that is an ex pro bodybuilder and he was informed that I intended to use steroid. I have a complete meal and training plan adjusted to my needs made by a professional.

5 - yes mommy[/quote]

That doesn’t necessarily indicate an infection.

Susceptibility to the effects of elevated estrogen will negate this. Some even get gyno at 40.

You wanna know the secret to growing when you don’t grow? It’s so simple it will blow your mind. Eat more.

Now I really suspect you haven’t reached puberty. Maybe you really are a non-responder to testosterone.[/quote]

if all you wanted to do was reject other peoples’ opinions and say ‘no guys, I’m right,’ then why did you even post? Sounds like you’re a non-responder to more than testosterone.

[quote]Beyond Beyond wrote:
If you still have the vial, check to see if ethyl oleate is in the preparation.
Some people don’t react well to it, and you will feel like crap for several days after injecting, lots of swelling and PIP.
High BA concentration is reputed to cause PIP, but most labs don’t use more than 1%, these days which is pretty safe.
Start off with the 0.25mg of adex on your next cycle and adjust from there. With a testosterone only cycle at bodybuilding doses most people are going to need it to stop aromatization.
For me in my first cycle It seemed to take a while for the strength increases to kick in 4-5 weeks. Once I mentally got over whether the gear I was using was legit( I became a greasy motherfucker, and got itchiness in the nips until I adjusted adex) I realized the increases in strength. I didn’t feel stronger until I actually tried to increase to poundages and then lifted them, and found myself to be stronger.
If you were feeling like crap on cycle from sides, I can imagine the quality of your workouts and your recovery, mental state were low so you were unlikely to want to stack the poundage on the bar?[/quote]

I just got done with some bunk gear, or perhaps they changed a solvent or something. Swollen, red, lots of pain but it wasn’t an infection. Felt like a flu, low grade fever and everything. I can’t imagine this being a first cycle. I would never have touched it again.

So my vote is bunk gear and a mental and physical freakout to sabotage gains. Hard to lift and feel strong when you feel very ill. I was barely making it through workouts and missed a couple.

[quote]Beyond Beyond wrote:
If you still have the vial, check to see if ethyl oleate is in the preparation.
Some people don’t react well to it, and you will feel like crap for several days after injecting, lots of swelling and PIP.
High BA concentration is reputed to cause PIP, but most labs don’t use more than 1%, these days which is pretty safe.
Start off with the 0.25mg of adex on your next cycle and adjust from there. With a testosterone only cycle at bodybuilding doses most people are going to need it to stop aromatization.
For me in my first cycle It seemed to take a while for the strength increases to kick in 4-5 weeks. Once I mentally got over whether the gear I was using was legit( I became a greasy motherfucker, and got itchiness in the nips until I adjusted adex) I realized the increases in strength. I didn’t feel stronger until I actually tried to increase to poundages and then lifted them, and found myself to be stronger.
If you were feeling like crap on cycle from sides, I can imagine the quality of your workouts and your recovery, mental state were low so you were unlikely to want to stack the poundage on the bar?[/quote]

I just got done with some bunk gear, or perhaps they changed a solvent or something. Swollen, red, lots of pain but it wasn’t an infection. Felt like a flu, low grade fever and everything. I can’t imagine this being a first cycle. I would never have touched it again.

So my vote is bunk gear and a mental and physical freakout to sabotage gains. Hard to lift and feel strong when you feel very ill. I was barely making it through workouts and missed a couple.[/quote]

Exactly this.

My gear wasn’t good either, too concentrated for Test Prop at 200mg/ml. I tried to stick out like a man for almost 3 weeks (stupid) and all I got was pain, fever and fatigue. Just like you, I couldn’t get through workouts, maybe 9 sets it.

I salvaged my first cycle by mixing the gear with my pharm Test Cyp 1:1. Maybe 4 days later, I felt like a new man. I went to the gym and did entire body workout with worth of 40 sets like a maniac. And I could’ve done it again if I wanted to.

Sticking with Test E from now on, or I might try Test Prop or Ace but only 100mg/ml for sure.

Liver pain + kidney pain = do not take hepatotoxics. At least you know that much and stuck to test only.

I’m kind of doubting 10% bf if you get Gyno on 500mg a week but it’s possible.

Arim would really fix Gyno. Nolva is best for that but stay on Arim and get bloods done asap. You’re setting yourself up for trouble if you don’t know what you’re doing and clearly you don’t. My first cycle kicked off with anadrol 50mg daily, then pulsed throughout 12 weeks of test e 750mg per week and I had to deal with progesterone and estro-sides. If you’re “sensitive” to estro-sides maybe you’ve got too many receptors there in that 10%bf or something. These are the rules:

A) get bloods before your first cycle for a hormone base level guide as this is what you’ll need to know to restore during recovery. My baseline test is 25 nmol (ref tops is 29). When I do PCT the idea is to restore this level. I’m currently in-cycle and last bloods were 89 nmol.

B) stock up on everything you need to deal with estrogenic / progesteronic sides.

C) have a plan ahead to deal with sides when they arise. A good one might be Nolva 40/40/40 then 20/20/20

I notice no HCG there. HCG causes progesterone sides including Gyno so you’re probably better off without. I’m guessing you don’t need / want HCG as opposed to not knowing what it is.