I am 22 year old male who is 5′ 9″ and weighs about 220 pounds. Yes, I am fat. Recently this (fatter) black girl decided to randomly message me saying “your fat, ugly and not ok”. I sent her a bomb of an intellectual hate mail back and got banned.

That’s exceedingly hilarious. That presumably took place on some dating site, a detail that should be included if you’re telling a story about such an environment. “You’re fat, ugly and not OK” is God-damned funny! This should not bother you or make you upset in any way. If this took place on OKCupid, the proper response would have been to go on the forums and share the experience. Generally, nothing good comes of expressing anger at people on the internet. If you got that upset, you do, in fact, have a fragile ego of a fat girl, if not worse. That’s pathetic.

I think people who objectively spread negativity at random are immoral cunts (be them guy or girl). Being fat is one thing but causing others pain because that’s a coping mechanism for their ill head that’s worse.

Geezus. I know you’re pretty young, but you’re old enough to learn that you’re thinking like a child. There is no practical reason for passing moral judgement on anyone’s being fat or acting thoughtlessly. You’re doing this so you can compare yourself to her, so you can paint her as the bad guy and yourself as the victim. This is not necessary! The facts speak for themselves! She said something mean to you that hurt your feelings, but you should have immediately recognized her words as meaningless.

And in this person’s mind they do not associate with themselves being fatter than me; their mind defends itself from believing that and they hypocracize and who knows becomes a serial killer of fat men.

Yes, the behavior is clear some sort of defense mechanism or projection or something like that. The only reaction this shit deserves is that you look down at her and laugh at her. If you’re a bit evolved it should give you pause, make you wonder if your own brain is so equipped to fool itself.

In my defense, I have had therapeutic chemical tools for the last 3 years that made me gain 33% of my body’s weight in the process. I was a healthy 155 pounded human being. Now I weigh 220 pounds.

Why do you talk like this? Is English your second language? You should clearly state that you’ve been on some drug that made you fat. This is a common and commonly understood phenomena. You could even say what drug it is! Your privacy is pretty safe here. Nobody knows who you are and nobody cares!

I am confident and content and know I need to lose weight to reduce my hypertension among other things. But I guess my argument stands, pass in nice thoughts you want to communicate to others.

What argument? Maybe you made one in your head, but you haven’t done so in this message. You don’t sound confident or content. If you were, you wouldn’t be so upset about things of no consequence.

You’ll most likely not meet anyone you talk to on the internet because the temptation to falsify info and make fraudulent dating accounts is to be expected.

A lot of people end up in relationships with people they’ve met through the internet, including me. Although, the level of attention most guys get on dating sites is underwhelming, to put it mildly. The numbers are such that fat chicks will confidently reject fat dudes. Have a profile up here or there, but don’t take this shit seriously. Doing so makes you appear desperate (which you clearly are). Don’t take yourself too seriously in your profile, don’t put a lot of energy into contacting girls, have no expection that any of them will ever reply, and for God’s sake don’t get excited if a chick messages you. If you’re going to burn calories meeting women, do so in meatspace. This can help turn you into the kind of dude women find attractive.

And someones profile photos are most likely to be outdated. And peoples sexual orientation is most likely inaccurate, especially in younger crowds.

What the fuck are you talking about? Inaccurate photos are a always possible, and I feel strongly that people should meet as soon as there’s a hint of mutual interest, before you feel like you have anything to lose, when you have no expectations. Of course, you could be the type of person who always has expectations, but having them crushed a few times should put an end to that nonsense. I have no idea what you’re on about regarding sexual orientation. What is in it for anyone to lie about that?

People are testing the waters, and for our audience’s sake lets hope that someone who posted an outdated fat picture loses weight.

Okay. I’ll put that near the bottom of my list of things to hope for. Who cares?

The most important question to ask yourself is: do we want whats best for ourselves vs. Do we want whats best for ourselves and others? Helping others in turn helps you.

That’s not the most important question for me to ask myself. I have a strong desire to attempt in futility to make the world a better place by arguing with idiots and saying things that most people are too God-damned nice to say. I don’t need anyone to talk me into helping others, including people I’ll never meet who I don’t personally care about. If I need anything, I need the opposite. I need to be reminded that I can’t fix the world and that most people are too dumb to ever get it.

Why not ask a fatties you’re attracted to be your work out buddy or better yet, ignore them alltogether.

I’m not attracted to fatties. Nobody is! That’s kind of been my point!

hope I corrected some of your thoughts.

You’re fucking delusional if you think coming to my blog and crying some emotional nonsense at me would get me to think differently. Anyway, you seem like a nice kid who’s mommy lied to him his whole life about him already being good enough. You’re not, and you never were, but you can get better. I’m not even talking about you being fat. Grow up and become a man.

I kind of want to try and help you, but I’m out of gas for now, and I don’t fully understand what your problem is. I honestly don’t know why you’re angry.

Yesterday I saw this article in the Arizona Republic (from the LA Times) saying that the Journal of the American Medical Association released a new recommendation for women to exercise for 60 minutes per day every day in order to avoid gaining unwanted weight. Yahoo has the same basic story (from Reuters). I find the Yahoo article particularly offensive because it’s titled, “For women, battle of the buldge just got tougher”, as if the recommendations have changed how diet and exercise effect women’s body fat; and they have a picture of an obese woman in a bathing suit, as if someone reading the article might not know what a fat person looks like.

Whenever you see an article about any kind of scientific research, it’s best to skip to the actual science. Or in this case, “science.” From the Republic:

The study was based on surveys of more than 34,000 U.S. women who were, on average, age 54 at the start of the study. They reported their physical activity and body weight, as well as health factors such as smoking and menopausal status, over 13 years. On average, the women gained 5.7 pounds during the study.

What? They were 54 years old on average? That means the average age at the end was 67 (depending on who died). I don’t understand how or why they would derive recommendations for all women based on survey data from post-menopausal women. Nor do I understand how an average weight gain of less than half a pound per year is at all significant.

From Yahoo:

Only 13 percent of women in the study maintained a healthy weight throughout the study — and those who got an hour of exercise a day on average or more were by far the most likely to be in that group.

Something’s not right here if they all averaged a 13-year weight gain of 5.7 pounds while only 13% maintained a healthy weight. At this point, I’m inclined to dig into the actual numbers, but I’m not about to pay $15 for the privilege. Without getting into it, I can’t really tell, but it smells like the data do not fit the conclusion. I think what’s going on here is that current government recommendations (150 minutes of moderate exercise per week) aren’t working and instead of questioning whether exercise causes weight loss or prevents weight gain, the experts will just conclude that it’s not enough. This study is being used because it weakly shows the desired conclusion.

I’ve been convinced that exercise is not a reliable means of weight loss (or weight gain prevention) ever since reading this article by Gary Taubes:

There was a time when virtually no one believed exercise would help a person lose weight. Until the sixties, clinicians who treated obese and overweight patients dismissed the notion as naïve. When Russell Wilder, an obesity and diabetes specialist at the Mayo Clinic, lectured on obesity in 1932, he said his fat patients tended to lose more weight with bed rest, “while unusually strenuous physical exercise slows the rate of loss.”

The problem, as he and his contemporaries saw it, is that light exercise burns an insignificant number of calories, amounts that are undone by comparatively effortless changes in diet. In 1942, Louis Newburgh of the University of Michigan calculated that a 250-pound man expends only three calories climbing a flight of stairs—the equivalent of depriving himself of a quarter-teaspoon of sugar or a hundredth of an ounce of butter. “He will have to climb twenty flights of stairs to rid himself of the energy contained in one slice of bread!” Newburgh observed. So why not skip the stairs, skip the bread, and call it a day?

More-strenuous exercise, these physicians further argued, doesn’t help matters—because it works up an appetite. “Vigorous muscle exercise usually results in immediate demand for a large meal,” noted Hugo Rony of Northwestern University in his 1940 textbook, Obesity and Leanness. “Consistently high or low energy expenditures result in consistently high or low levels of appetite. Thus men doing heavy physical work spontaneously eat more than men engaged in sedentary occupations. Statistics show that the average daily caloric intake of lumberjacks is more than 5,000 calories, while that of tailors is only about 2,500 calories. Persons who change their occupation from light to heavy work or vice versa soon develop corresponding changes in their appetite.” If a tailor becomes a lumberjack and, by doing so, takes to eating like one, why assume that the same won’t happen, albeit on a lesser scale, to an overweight tailor who decides to work out like a lumberjack for an hour a day?

Credit for why we came to believe otherwise goes to one man, Jean Mayer…

It is as though it is my never-ending quest to make fat girls cry. Once again, I’ve found something to talk about on OkCupid’s forums. The other day, someone started a thread on titled “Fat people need their own site“, complaining that OkC shows him “matches” that he has no interest in, fat girls. On one level, I can sympathyze here as I’ve seen this myself. The site will try to introduce users to members they might be interested in based on their very interesting (but mostly nonsense) matchmaking pseudo-science. However, dealbreakers such as being fat are completely ignored. On the other hand, there are two problems with the site for fat people. First, fat people don’t necessarily need to be paired up with other fat people. Second, there already is such a thing.

Being insensitive to the heavyset crowd doesn’t go over well. Predictably:

emote_control: Men who aren’t interested in fat women don’t complain about them. They just look for women they’re interested in. Men who complain about fat women are trying to overcompensate for the shame they feel at being attracted to fat women. They make all sorts of noise so that nobody will suspect they’re all about buttering rolls. It’s tragic, really. They should be out and proud about their fat girl love. Otherwise they’re living a lie, and will wallow in misery.

First, I don’t like that he puts two spaces after each period, even though that’s what I was taught to do in elementary school on an Apple IIe. Second, this is complete nonsense. I have seen this kind of illogic before, but I don’t quite know how to address it. You may have heard that men who complain about homosexuals are themselves secretly gay. You may believe it. In many cases, it may well be true, but you must understand that you cannot logically conclude that someone has a secret love for anything simply because they claim to dislike it publicly. It seems to make sense regarding homosexuality as there can are high personal and social costs to accepting and declaring one’s homosexuality, and we understand the concept of protesting too much.

I hate mushrooms. I’m serious. I mean, I don’t just hate eating mushrooms. I hate seeing them or smelling them. I don’t like knowing that other people eat them. If you have just concluded that I secretly love mushrooms, I hate you too. Discerning someone’s secrets comes from the fairly non-scientific but very real and useful art of reading people, as in poker. I do not take anyone seriously who presumes to be able to employ this skill to any great effect through the internet, particularly on strangers. If police detectives suspect you may be involved in a serious crime, they will come to you or take you in and interrogate you in person. They will not e-mail you a list of questions. It is difficult enough to detect sarcasm. I assume, when I see people reading minds on the internet, that they’re projecting, but I don’t make that claim. I think this is a logical fallacy that needs a name. Someone help me.

Back to the thread…

After that, the first sympathetic reply mentioned how body type is not selectable as a match criterion, while a slew of other things are, such as zodiac sign. I must say that is rather curious. Here are all the things you can filter your search with:

Any combination of gender and sexual orientation (such as girls who like guys or bi girls only)

Minimum and Maximum age

Limit to within 25/50/100/250/500 miles of your zip code or any other zip code

How long ago they were last online

Exclude profiles without photos

Show only those who are single

Join Date

Keywords

Ethnicity

Height

What someone is looking for (such as long-term relationships, casual sex, etc.)

Smoking

Drinking

Drug Use

Religion

Zodiac Sign

Education

Job Income

Pets

Language

So, there’s all of that, but no way to exclude those who are too fat or too skinny. Why might this be?

Another mangina jumped and disagreed with emote_control above, introducing his own theory to explain why men complain about fat girls.

carlosisgod: Nah, it’s more along the lines of them being petty, spineless dicks who are looking for an easy scapegoat to pick on cause they’re overcompensating about how hopelessly mediocre and boring they really are in life. Oh my gosh, look at the brave man picking on overweight people. What a fucking hero.

I don’t know that this really needs to be replied to. Understand that nobody’s really said anything all that mean about fat people. Not yet anyway. Not until I had to go ahead and say this:

[…] I also think it’s valid to complain about the extremely fat people who take up more space than a human ever should. They gross me the fuck out, not just with how they look but also they’re public eating habits.

While I’m complaining, I’d like to complain about how every time a TV news show decides that obesity is news they show all these shots of fat people walking around from the neck down. I don’t want to see that shit. And then they almost never have any useful information for fat people who want to lose weight.

[…]

You’re not an “extremely fat person.” I’m talking about the tubs of goo who ride the scooters at Walmart when they’re buying their cookies and ice cream, people who wear sweatpants because that’s all they have that fits.

You might not see much of that, but I do and I can’t stand it.

In hind sight, none of this really needed to be said. It wasn’t even all that relevant here, but I really do feel this way and it just came out. Americans disgust me. It bothers me that so many people here are so fat. Does it make you a bad person? Not really, I suppose, but if I see your fat thighs because you’re wearing sweatshorts at a sit-down restaurant as you stuff your face with shit you don’t need to be eating, I’m going to be offended. If I see another fat fuck buying junk-food with food stamps, it will make me angry. My complaint about fat people taking up too much space refers specifically to taking up too much highly demanded space. If you are a woman over 300 lbs, it will bother me to see you in a crowded bar or club. Wherever you go, you’re in the fucking way, and I don’t see how you or anyone else benefits from your being in such a place. Fat guys who are in the way bother me too, but not much more than all guys who are in the way bother me. In the context of the thread, I suppose my words were uncalled for. Maybe I really do want to make fat girls cry. Or maybe I’m just angry and like to rant.

Thankfully, the fat people’s savior decided to set me straight.

carlosisgod: Oh no, you’re so fucking oppressed. What a sob story. Who the heck are you to judge and dehumanize other people? What have you contributed to the human race? Jack-shit. You’re just another lazy shithead with an over-inflated sense of entitlement who’s got a chip on his shoulder cause his Daddy didn’t buy him the car he wanted when he turned sweet sixteen. I know people who are obese who have accomplished more and contributed more to humanity in ten years than 99% of the people out there will ever accomplish or contribute in their entire fucking lives. The difference between them and you, is they wouldn’t begrudge you a damn thing. You’re an imbecile and a whiner and an ingrate. You got every advantage a person could have. You’re born in the richest country, you obviously got money and time cause you’re on the internet and look at you. Raging against people who have weight problems. Oh, my god. What a fucking hero. You’re a black hole, you suck so hard, that even with all the potential in the world, you’re still nothing. There are millions of people who would die to get a chance to live your life and have your opportunities, and all you can do is squander it, whining about people you don’t know from fucking atom, who are already facing legitimate problems of their own. And you talk about them being a waste of space? Take a good long look in the mirror before you judge other people you gutless coward.

This is amazing. I’m going to save it forever. I’ve never had anyone put this much effort into hating me on the internet. I don’t know how complaining about something in my life constitutes cries of oppression, but implying so is a great way to insult me and make me look stupid. Bravo. My dad actually did buy me a car when I was 17. It was a 1982 Chevy Citation that he paid $435 for. He bought it to drive while his vehicle being repaired. Then, he gave to me. The anecdote about fat bastards contributing to humanity is a fantastic non-sequitur. It’s as if I were arguing that fat people are subhumans who ought to be ground up and fed to the hungry, or at least that thoroughly suck at everything. Following that, he stands on the premise that people who live well have no right to complain about anything. This is clearly nonsense, though I understand not getting any sympathy from people who have bigger things to worry about. When Dennis Leary became rich and famous from being in movies, did he stop complaining about vegetarians, fruit-flavored beer, and not being allowed to smoke? Carlos speaks as if he knows a lot about me, but he doesn’t. He concludes that since I’m neither underfed in Africa nor overfed in America that I have no legitimate problems. The only assumption that I’ll make about him is that he has a fat significant other.

After that, we learn something interesting. We know that fat girls don’t like or want to accept that they’re weight makes them unattractive to men. It turns out that they also don’t like when they’re weight makes them attractive to men.

-I suggested a dating site for overweight people to my friend. She said she considered it, but found that most people messaged her just because being overweight was a turn on for them and they didn’t care about her personality.

-Yep. Been there, done that! It feels terrible to be objectified at any size. Being liked and being objectified and fetishized… not the same thing. 🙂 I would always rather be liked for being me. I’m fabulous that way 😉

Hot girls get attention “just for being hot” and they don’t seem to mind. I mean, it might be unwanted attention, but they certainly aren’t creeped out that their shape attracts such attention. This is where I decided that however fragile the fragile male ego might be, it’s got nothing on the ego of the fat girl. The angry men above are so valiant and heroic in their quest to protect the poor fat girl from truth and harsh words, like “fat.” If you want the truth, you can find it in this 2005 study(pdf). It is not written for the layperson, but it’s interesting.

From the summary:

…the centrally predictable fact from HurryDate events is that women’s desirability is dominated by their relative thinness, a finding consistent with data from personal ads (Lynn & Shurgot, 1984; Sitton & Blanchard, 1995). Such findings support both theoretical emphasis on men’s attention to physical attractiveness and lay intuitions that men care most deeply about women’s body size and shape.

They studied a large number of speed-dating sessions and found BMI to be the most significant factor in men’s preferences for women. They also found physical traits to dominate men’s desirability, which is somewhat inconsistent with my views, but I have some idea why. In the speed-dating events, participants had 3 minutes with each other opposite-sex participant, more than enough time to judge someone’s looks, but not nearly enough to judge their status. Yes, you can find out what someone does for a living in that time, but it’s not enough time to shit-test a man and find out if he’s a pussy.

Anyway, I like to share this ugly truth as much as I can so that larger women who are unsatisfied with the attention they get from men (or rather with the men they get attention from) will know the number one thing they can do to change that and that their sisters, girlfriends, gay guy friends, and heroic mangina nice guy friends are all full of shit.

Lately, I’ve seen several threads on OKCupid’s forums asking why fat girls get little attention from guys. In each case, the original poster seems delusional about what’s going on and is looking for others to help them maintain their illusions.

Why is it that men seem to be turned off when the term “full figured” is brought up? I am not lazy or a slob and yet when men see me they assume I am since I am overweight. I have tried countless diets and exercise to lose some weight, but nothing seems to help. I don’t need anyone commenting and being rude. I just want to know why men look and turn away. I am attractive and have alot to offer.

First, full-figured is a euphemism for fat and if men are turned off by the term, it’s because they know what it really means. Men are not turned on or off by words. Most of us are attracted to women and for many, that just doesn’t include fat women. We really don’t give a shit about why you’re fat or how hard you’ve tried not to be. It doesn’t matter. What matters is whether or not your appearance gives us wood. When Hornz says she doesn’t want anyone being rude, she means that she doesn’t want anyone being honest. Her insisting that she’s attractive certainly does not make it so.

If you look at her profile, you’ll see that in addition to looking somewhat like an ogre, this young woman has 1 kid, makes less than $30,000/year, dreams of meeting her prince, and can’t quite count to six.

According to the poll in the other thread, most men DO prefer full-figured women. And so far on this one as well. Maybe they just won’t admit it. Or maybe as others have noted, it’s something else. Regardless of the “imperfection” in a man or woman, the imperfection is rarely the problem so much as having a hang up about it.

If any poll shows men preferring full-figured women, I guarantee most of the respondents were imagining actual full-figured women like Marylin Monroe or Laetitia Casta, not big tubs of goo. Either that or they’re full of shit. Then he has to lie to her about people (as if attraction works the same for men and women) having hang-ups. “No ma’am, it’s not that your body repulses me. It’s just that I have a hang-up about repulsive bodies.” Whatever.

geekadmirer says:

There are men who prefer big women to thinner women so you don’t have to worry.

Is this a joke? Yes, there are chubby-chasers out there, but not nearly in sufficient numbers to satisfy the massive hordes of massive women in existence today.

After my honest response to the thread, Hornz came back with this:

Wow, some very rude ignorant a**holes out there. I don’t care how you view me. I can only be me. However, I don’t look at a big guy and get grossed out, nor do I look at a thin man like that. I don’t think that men are ugly just cuz they are heavy. I guess there are just some really shallow people out there.

What is this tit-for-tat thing she does here? You’re not grossed out by fat guys, therefore it’s a character flaw on my part if I’m grossed out by you? I get annoyed at people who ask questions only to lash out when people actually try to answer them.

Why is being chubby or obese unattractive? Because the impression is you don’t take care of yourself, and no matter what you say you can’t convince us otherwise. I mean it works both ways, girls don’t like fat guys either.

No, being chubby or obese is unattractive because it’s unattractive, the same way being a tree is unattractive to humans. It may work both ways to some extent, but don’t pretend it’s the same.

The thread then turns full retard with a post by myrddwn, a man in a polyamorous relationship with a rather large woman:

Most people, men included, can not overcome their cultural programing. Right now, our society views skinny as attractive. Look around at the intelligence of the people bashing fatties here, and you can plainly see that its the dumb, ignorant hicks that want skinny bitches. They dont know any better. They also want big trucks, big screen TV’s, the latest cell phone, because advertisers tell them to want that stuff, and think if they have these things, they will be cool, or happy, or something. So what if most men dont want you, chances are, you dont want them. Superficial ‘tards anyway.

I am not overly “full figured” but I have my curves and I love them, I am a proud size 14, which if you do your research is the average healthy size for a female in the united states…I am healthy, I jog and I eat right….but what [floors] me is the guys today overlooking a size 14 or 16 woman for a girl that is a 00…why??? It’s not like a persons size makes them more or less capable of loving you. I think people today get too focused on what a girl looks like in a bikini and what the public sees as “beautiful” when a beautiful person should be someone that loves themselves and others….

First off, full-figured is a euphamism for fat, although this girl really isn’t all that big. Here again she’s looking to blame what men are attracted to on society. That, and there’s this constant need for these bigger girls to pretend that the only alternative to their heft is 5-year-meth-addict skinny. Fat women, you’re problem is not that you aren’t shaped like a runway model; it’s that you are shaped like a panda bear. There are a lot of women who resemble neither and plenty of men who find them attractive.

The responses start out fun and light-hearted until Tru24m jumps in with:

The disrespect to larger women stems from the insecure little boys who are so self concious about themselves that they don’t dare admit that they find anyone attractive who isn’t the socially accepted size zero. For whatever reason twiggy women are held on some crazy undeserved pedistal, even when they’re actually ugly as sin. I fail to see how ribs and pencil sharp hip bones poking out at unnatural angles is sexy, but society says it is, therefore it has to be.

Did someone ask about respect? No, the original question is about guys picking thin girls over thick girls for mating purposes. Tru24m, if you’re attracted to women that other men avoid, there’s absolutely nothing to be upset about. Clearly, you should be happy about this.