Join your hosts Jason “retailgeek” Goldberg, SVP Commerce & Content at SapientRazorfish, and Scot Wingo, Founder and Executive Chairman of Channel Advisor as they discuss the latest news and trends in the world of e-commerce and digital shopper marketing.

Liraz Margalit, PhD, is a Web Psychologist, a Keynote Speaker and Head of Behavioral Research at Clicktale. She integrates Cognitive Psychology and Behavioral Economic perspectives to analyzes online consumer behavior and delivers actionable insights for business stakeholders.

In this interview, we cover Liraz's background, digital body language, the mobile mindset, and the role of emotion in shopping.

Don't forget to like our facebook page, and if you enjoyed this episode please write us a review on itunes.

Episode 141 of the Jason & Scot show was recorded on Tuesday, August 7th from the eTail East tradeshow in Boston.

Join your hosts Jason "Retailgeek" Goldberg, SVP Commerce & Content at SapientRazorfish, and Scot Wingo, Founder and Executive Chairman of Channel Advisor as they discuss the latest news and trends in the world of e-commerce and digital shopper marketing.

Transcript

Jason:[0:25]Welcome to the Jason and Scott showthis episode is being recorded live at the e'tae least trade show in Sunny Boston on Tuesday August 7thI'm your host Jason retailgeek Goldberg unfortunately Scott had a personal conflict and wasn't able to make this show so you guys are stuck with just mebut we have some great guess this week and first up we are excited to have dr. Laura's mark delete from cooked tail on the show or as is head of Behavioral research cook tail and she's going to share some fascinatingpsychological research that that she's been conducting about online Shoppers and their behaviors welcome to the show with us.

Liraz:[1:10]Thank you I'm very blessed to be here.

Jason:[1:12]The president Charlie R's one thing I was like to do to get things started on the show is just for a little bit of background about the guest so maybe you could take just a minute and tell us how you came into thedoesn't seem like online marketing is necessary the first place you think of her psychology.

Liraz:[1:29]So interesting the fact that there is no such a degree inweb sites out or web psychology or digital say Call of Duty and people keep coming to me and ask,how can I become a psychologist and there is no one answer so for me I have a PhD in Psychology.Specialize in decision-making processes and cognition also Game Theory and over the past 5 years I've been utilizing model from cognitive psychology neuropsychology and behavioral economics how we can understand and identify customers behavior and did you deter workbecause we know that there is a slight difference and you don't like it's not so slide,there are differences between how people behave online and in the physical world and they are communicating frankly even their personality trait.James like if someone is an extrovert become an introvert and vice versa so I think there is a huge need to understand how people behavein those Windows media and those Arenas so a disability.

Jason:[2:37]That's very cool and I'm excited to dig into it before we go too deep maybe we should tell our listeners just a little bit about cooked tail for anyone that's not for me.

Liraz:[2:45]Sure she looks so cute Bella is an experience analytics company so what we do is that we,how to analyze and understand the customers Behavior the motivation for example what makes them motivate them to purchase certain products and why they would has it,before clicking on a call to action their Journey at the differences we can have different Behavior patterns we're talking about,thousands of visitors all together so we can take a view of individual visitor of thousands of visitors all together and this is how we can have heat insideinto what's going on in your mind before deciding to purchase or to leave website or what is there Experian.

Jason:[3:32]Wonderful in the way I sort of think of it there's lots of tools out there that I'll call Page analytics tools that sort of keep track of how Iconsumer moves from page to page and what unique about could tell as in my mind you were one of the very first tools that were what I'll call on page Analyticsand you could actually see all the micro behaviors of the consumerwow they're spending time on a page so are they you know are they scrolling are they hovering I mean not I know there's a small part of it but like.Gray superficially I think people always think about the heat maps and understanding where like the real fold is on the page how far down is the consumer really going.

Liraz:[4:10]Exactly so there is a common mistake that we are a heat map company goes much deeper than heatmap so if you think about it I can understand how you feelI can understand what you are going to remember from The Experience only based on how you interacted with the different pages I can under,if you're going through shift from positive to negative negative to positive and I can take,into consideration all your behaviors and actually see who you are or your personality traits are you crying to mine said so there is a whole lot of thingswe can detect only based on your micro-level behavior.

Jason:[4:49]I feel like I'm never going shopping again I love online shopping and now I'm terrified that all my deepest secrets are going to be revealed by my my my mouse behavior.

Liraz:[4:58]It's so now it's all I have.

Jason:[4:59]Just made me very self-conscious.

Liraz:[5:02]I have actually I can use it up for you because I don't care where you are I mean I care a lot about you.Like from we can we are not going to save the information about you the gender only based on what you doingwhat you did online so that's it and it means that I don't know who you are I can only see what you're doing online.

Jason:[5:26]And that is it that is another interesting thing like a lot of times when people think about personalization or even,I I care more about relevancy necessary then personalization they think about like storing and collecting data and knowing who is user is individually and accumulatingmore insight that you can somehow use to change the experience one of the things that's that's cool about this field is you can use kind of contextual signals in a single session so I can beentirely Anonymous Shopper or shopper you've never before and you can instantly start getting some signals you can use to make the experience more relevant for her.

Liraz:[6:03]Exactly exactly so is I look at it ice I've used the language model meaning that at the bottom of the mother we have the letters of course so these are like.Peaks and espola to have hers and then you go one level up and then we can talk about words for example if you click and butt before you click to hezzy.So I will call it hesitation are you at school really fast or really slow and then at the app we have the mindset for example if you are gorgeous.So I would see a direct action and then click so meaning that you know exactly what you're looking for and how to accomplish.On the website so I can actually understand your mindset if your focus if you're frustrated so this is like the the sentences in Thai language.

Jason:[6:51]Very cool and it's this is maybe a silly analogy but the the expanse I feel like Moe's online consumers have had that makes this sort of apparent is the the little button I am not a robot.Right and everything goes well that's stupid like if I were a robot I would be able to quit that.I am in what what you're not realizing is that that which it is watching how you move your mouse,the button and the the unique way that a human being moves the mouse is different than the perfectly linear way and I'll order them is likely to do a.

Liraz:[7:26]This is the magic word actually the house because actually my whole research is focus on the how customers behave and not what you're doing and also you know there are many many companies today.Dad or like your your detect that you use bad.I think that it doesn't matter because you know 70% of our day-to-day interactions are actually based on nonverbal signals meaning.Hope you're saying to one another so I can ask you if you like to come over and you will say yes because you are being polite but from the way you say fromhow you say I can infer that you really don't like to come over so it's about our body gestures and her facial expression when we're talking about the physical world but when were talking about the onlineit is also about the how is that it as you described right now.

Jason:[8:14]Yeah it's super exciting let's jump right into it now you've done for the three big areas of research and I want at least be able to touch on all of the the first one is when we talkturn it down on the show we talk about this thing we call the mobile Gap right and in general you gotall the traffic on the web is predominantly moving to mobile devices but if you're an e-commerce site people don't tend to shop as frequently and successfully on mobile devices that used to on desktop so youso that's a scary Trend and we're always talking about how sides can do better what we can fix in the customer experienceand you know frankly you have a chance to settle up our way in on his dispute Scott and I always have without putting words in Scott's mouth while he's not here but he's not here so I might as well.He thinks some of that Gap is in friends and that it just harder to shop on mobile devices in the screens last.

Liraz:[9:08]I would like technical issues.

Jason:[9:10]Yeah not all of it I don't think you would say but I think he would you know just say hey it's West convenient and and I argue that a lot of it isinferior experiences and execution that as we get better we can remediate and and that we should expect to see.The mobile Gap certain Arab so I love to hear your perspective on that and tell us tell us a little bit about the study and what you learned.

Liraz:[9:36]So yeah I'm sorry Scott but I will have to go with you or with your assumptions about it,if I say we we are calling it The Mobile man mindsetmeaning that I think exactly as you described we have a different mindset as we go on mobileand if you think about it it is done unconsciously it start with her body posture meaning that when you when you browse.Add to desktop when you add to your table to your straight upso he's actually affect who you are what you think what you do and when we on our mobile device where usually on the goand for us I would mobile we have an association between our Mobile in our social social life and we are.Conscious about about what we do and that is why we like to buy more precious thing on the mobile and you knowour mobile is like an extension of our body so we treated completely differently you know.I thought that was conducted about people how they treat their mobile they found it if I will give you my mobilepeople we always start being jealous at you for touching my mobile if they make us feel more emotional about her mobile so also it from wanting that we have discovered isthe three of you in completely different types of corn.

[11:04]Lake Murray Sports Bar social media on our mobile Facebook and Instagram for for Generation Z and the desktop so.Most of us will also feel most secure like to complete the purchase so like there is a processing cycle you start with your mobile your brows for things and you landed at your deskbut they also because we feel more emotional.When we are holding our mobile so we will be more people's purchaser meaningwe we are not going to think about it too much we're not going to use a rational system because you know we have two different systems operating in or my system 1 system too so system to is the rational system.

[11:50]And 61 is the emotional it is more at o matic so it is based on war base you don't.Too much so this is exactly how you behave on your mobile you don't,too much you play out of habit so this is a habit forming most of the mobile website or the mobile apps these are habit-forming apps andwhen you are like you lost yourself you don't think too much so that is why we will buy more I will be engaging more impulse purchase and for the desktop we are more self-aware and we are price-consciousand the reason address,because you have this big screen so so are exactly is called said so because you have this big screen this is an illusion that you can see clearly you can see all the details so I'll for some peoplemost for the elderly guys out if they feel like they feel more safe to purchase order this.

Jason:[12:48]Very cool and so and I imagine it's all somewhat relative like so for example I always talk about how in ux design Everyone likes to,to act very rational right and you know my promise is the overwhelming majority of all purchase decisions are made with that fast system they're made with the irrationals not that I work the subconscious portion of our brainand and so what you're saying is on the mobile device it's even more so.Into one of my takeaways from that is what you there's been this big Trend and they slightly misused word but we'll talk responsive-design like one one experience and it's just kind of fluid in a liquid so it can,Flex to fit a big desktop screen or small Mobile screen and well that's certainly better than have any experience that doesn't fit the screen it's probably not the optimal experience because your point,there there could be more emotional triggers that I want to deliver to someone on that mobile device and there might be more.Rational objective information that I want to deliver to that.

Liraz:[13:56]Yeah definitely that's what I keep saying to our client it's not about the designer design shouldn't be different what you'd be different is the content.Contact because on the mobile we are on the ghost so mostly we are not,to be interested in all the details and information we want to to see images we want to be to have an access to the information and we want the more emotional con.Likelike for example if you're talking about our social media so we want to be connected to our social media we want to know what my friend bought before me buton the desktop this is completely different on the desktop you want to review all the details,very carefully we want to have access to two Idol reviews so yeah it's not about the design it's about the content to be completely different and it should feed our minds at her mobile or desktop.

Jason:[14:49]Yeah that's pretty cool until I think of that is sort of like on the desktop I might want a deep dive into all the reviews in the numerical rating.On the mobile I want to see a picture of the person from my social network that I know that that bought this product and had a good outcomeyeah that's that's super interesting and exciting part of me it's sad because I feel like most designers work on these super expensive giant monitors and if anythingthey they did say their best most emotional visual experience is.For the big screen and then when they say hey what's the mobile experience they're like oh it's much smaller I'm just going to give him a thumbnail and give him.Attacks and and what you're funny cuz that's exactly opposite of the.Contacts to the user very interesting I can talk about mobile with you all day but I'm super interested to Diamond to the the next two studies and the next one that we were talking aboutis this. I think it's a huge opportunity for people to improve their customer experience it's shopping stress.

Liraz:[15:56]Exactly so you know there are different tips to the shopping stress there different finding so first we know that for some of us,is like an addiction it's like you like to go shopping the same as you like to smoke it's relaxing and fun and you get to forget about yourself and just be like.When you play a mobile repair like mobile game so for some people it is exactly the same mostly women but.

[16:25]I also some men that like to shop ever.Although we know that is supposed to be fun and enjoyable it can be all so it can also be stressful especially when we're talking about the checkout process and especially for men becausewhat we have found that you that we can we have.

[16:44]Different mindset for men and for women I think the differences between how men shop and how woman chokes is extremely important here.Because we said that men they want to find what they want to go shopping they know what they want.Ahead of time and they want to find it as quickly as possible looking for similarly related items and they area price conscious and it's not about the fun it's not about the pleasure fat woman it's not about the end resultso we found it sometime woman will enjoy the process itself they derive pleasure from The Experience they say calf and sensory stimulationwhen they are shopping so it's all about applying the associative thinking so they can start with I don't know why I baby back in skin care and they will find out go find himself they're going shopping for bags for example,so it's all about the pleasure in the fan and the association so you can see why it is less stressful for women if you are going to focus on the experience itself but for menif you are looking for something and you cannot find it especiallyplay in the holiday season or if you really need something so then it become pretty stressful.

Jason:[18:00]And it is interesting to me I often feel like the best opportunities to improve experiences and in increase conversion is shockingly sometimes it lasts about.More tools for task completion in more about this stress avoidance that like the low-hanging fruit is usually what can I take.Out of the experience that's causing the stressors and releasing like all those hormones into the bot like it's it's a.

Liraz:[18:30]Espressos yeah exactly because what we see is the people the designer for exampleabout the customer State of Mindwhat do you need like what would I need to find out they don't think about the actual experience so let me give you one example we found that the most stressful thing for some people is that they are entering a voucheror there is a voucher and they don't have it so they keep comparing himself to the other people because we are all engaging social comparison so oh my God.I could have this item in the lower price and I can't have it even if it is even if it is notso we need to think about this ecology over customers because those types of things they are what make them stressed.

Jason:[19:22]Yes and that that particular use cases a huge pet peeve because not only is it it hideous it's at the exact wrong point it's at the very end of that purchase.They're 99% of the way through and you just said a new anchor change their pricing perception and made them feel like they're stupid if they make this purchase.Without a and none of us none of us like to feel that way another one that I talk a lot about isjust the underlying Speed and Performance of the the site and it's shocking to me how much stress it induces just when the page loads slow or a button someone clicks.

Liraz:[20:01]Because you feel wasn't what went wrong and oh my God what about my money because whenever it comes to your money because if you think about it.Long I meanof course we have the internet for many years now but still like the money is going somewhere we cannot see it's not like we can feel the actual money so everything about what's going on with the transaction can make areally really stressful even if you just like a slight error and everything because and then even if it was a slight error and everything comes back to normal afterwards we will still.Have a negative feeling about experience this is the.

Jason:[20:42]Yeah that memory effect from that so there's a steady out and I'm terrified some was going to do bunk this study because it's one of my favorite studies in the space but they weren't they were studying,the the level of stress induced meant from different experiences and the Baseline was watching a horror movie and and they actually found that like,the average subject was releasing more cortisol and having you no more of a stress reaction to a slow mobile page.And watching a horror movie and I think that's hysterical like the most talented creative people in the world that are intentionally trying to stress you out.Just having a slow web page can accomplish the same experience on the part of the user.

Liraz:[21:28]Exactly and you know what's the interest another interesting finding was that when I talkin about the holiday season so when you need.To buy to buy something you will feel much more stressful and then we can see more at disoriented behavior and because when we shop abouta stand when any told about the van and we don't have a certain purposepurchasing then it could be relaxing and fun and we can avoid everything else in the neighborhood but when we need to do something it becomes press for,and we need to pay it.

Jason:[22:00]And again like when you're getting practical advice to people and you're saying like so maybe that that best experience during a particularly task-orientedseason like like a holiday season or your big annual sale needs to be different than the browsing experience that.Yeah any other like cheap pieces of advice that you give clients based on the emotion research.

Liraz:[22:24]Yeah based on day is stress research so we know that we were actually analyze how men and women shop and we found thatmen that don't like the broad selection and Foot Woman if they don't have the road selection it's like they did in the if for example I'm going to buy seven jeans and I find exactly what I wanted like the exact same size as the exact course I will feel a frustrated because.It so if it's all about the shopping I like to have a road selection it's part of the fun to try it out in the brake and rotors service also when I talkin about the online experiences we needto have the accessories and we need to have a broad selection and we need something that fits the hours to see a patient so are we really need to create a different experience for men.

Jason:[23:14]That that's super interesting and like so there's this a book in a principle that's out there in that a lot of women are familiar with the Paradox of choice right I think Dan ariely.Yeah and.Really smart guy lots of super interesting insides I feel like that particular inside is now.It has been difficult to repeat like that the whole notion that that the original test for westerners it maybe don't know is you bring a shopper to a Shelf with a bunch of jellies on it and if there's more.

Liraz:[23:52]54 vs 6the word to two flavors are like they were trying to have the septic station of gems so in the grocery store that was at 21st flavors of jam and only sixpeople of course came to the 24 but when I talking about how many purchase.Purchase three times more only six flavors.

Jason:[24:18]Which is fascinating right inside the original inside there was.

Liraz:[24:22]But this is Walden Diner really this is what she not anger but yeah he's talking about yourself.

Jason:[24:27]Yeah he is talking about her study and he made it very popular by writing a consumer book and any is very approachable and joy is his reading quite a bit but.The takeaway from there was like oh my gosh Apple they have 47 different kinds of laptops and when Steve Jobs made them normalize it down to three laptopsit reduce a lot of shopping stress and did all these things and and they sold a lot more and so they were suddenly this huge Trend towards curation.And I think what we've seen in further studies is there are context in which,that that affect is very real. Your point you know from the differences between men and women.

Liraz:[25:08]Exactly depends but not for everyone.

Jason:[25:10]Text where it's actually a mistake to assume that curation is.

Liraz:[25:15]So it's all about Sigmund Tatian is all about I mean when I talk about personalizationwhat is prisonization it's actually the realization that we have different types of customers so we have to provide them with different types of experiences and you know the two words that I hate the most in all these,online arena is.What are best practices we have a common basis for everyone we don'twe don't we need to treat everyone as an individual and on state tasteand this is the opposite of press.

Jason:[25:54]Yeah but the actual technical definition of best practices is whatever I say.I'm totally teasing yeah but you're course right right in and it'sI mean that's a cognitive bias to write like the clients are overwhelmed with all these decisions that they have to make and sometimes it just easier to Advocate some of these decisions and say hey what have people done before.And had a good outcome and what they don't understand is there's an unlimited number of variables that affected that outcome that are not the same.

Liraz:[26:27]Sometimes you're not aware of all these variables.

Jason:[26:29]Can't be in many cases it's it's it's fascinating but still for my clients just feel free to just take my advice.And is my clients hopefully no I don't recommend that either right like it's interesting to have hypothesis is but like it's it's really good to test those and pierpoint the old model ofone-size-fits-allsomething and then you know that's why I like frankly we had all this a b testing and multivariate testing in the world for a long time and there's this interesting phenomenon.Conversions no better than it was 10 years ago everything regresses to the mean in mini case.And part of it's because the the experience that succeeded for Shopper age does not succeed for sure.

Liraz:[27:16]And it's not only that because if you actually mentioned maybe says there is not a problem with a B test because when I talk to designers or two product analyst and they're trying out some tests they don't really have the notion.Maybe like the evidence we should maybe three work maybe it's not but it's not based on a committee the Samsung it's not based on psychological research and at the end of the day we are dealing with human being so it's not about okay so I have an idea let's try thatit's about how people will behave in about reading the secret vehicle research and I know that you don't have time for this but it will at the end of the day of the long runwe save you so much.

Jason:[27:56]Yeah and it and then side note because most people are using his test to validate a preference rather than actually learn permit test like they're all so they're theregenerally the math is horribly flawed and people don't don't use proper sample sizes in the Simpson but we don't have time to talk about thatyou have a third study which I've only recently just wondering about an emotion so tell us about that.

Liraz:[28:22]Right so we know thatfor example in the reported first a reason to release day Road brands that want to break away from the pack should focus on emotions,and you know what the part is I like the most is how an experience makes customer feel is a big influence on the loyalty to abandon Effectiveness series of using nearly every industry.And you know what we know it's not only Foster over the past five years we have been hearing about the significant fall off emotions and driving engagement and experience and brand awareness organization.No one really knows and no one really tells you how what is the mechanism behind it you know what's the relationship between emotions and experiences and how emotions can be utilized to drive digital experiences so this is exactly what we saidto do and what you need to ask is how our brain,memorizes daily experiences and what do we need to be discussing his emotion emotion as a gateway to our memory.

[29:23]Let me check with youa personal storage is to demonstrate it so it was a few minutes ago we were sitting in your family after Friday family dinner we were sitting in the living room and then my oldest daughter she turns to me and asked how we met her daddyso I told her the story I told her that I went because of my friends to a dance club and as we entered the club I saw him standing there the battery cover.And he was so good looking and then we went to the dance floor started dancing and after a few flat it looks he came over cancel my friend and ask if he can see me away from them.

[29:57]And this is how we talk again and he is there sitting there listening to me telling the story and says oh my God liraz it was nothing like.

[30:05]And for a minute there I was doing.But you wasn't eating and you know today after starting the dynamic nature of our memory I know that you wasn't kidding because our memory is greatly influenced by.Our recurrent mindset and our private stations in our emotions of course and that is why and this is very important lesson it doesn't matter what we need happened to the digital experiencewhat matters is what we're going to remember from The Experience right so in order to study emotions in the digital world we have developed this mother According to which the emotions evoked are the result of our private stationsand a recurrent mindset.

[30:48]And by private spectation I mean the actual wrong. Interacting with digital work we have developmental model that guide our XPpatient is to what to expect from different online experiences and what do I mean by mental model for example you are going to rest.

[31:05]You know how to behave you know this need to wait for the hostess first date you know how to behave so we have mental after interacting with him so he's the actual interactionplay online interactions meets our expectation it is considered to be an an event and no emotions are involvedso for example if I want to buy a certain the product this is what I expected,and that's it but if the actual interactionat least below our expectation meaning that is -2 what we expected then the experience would be associated with a negative emotion however if their experience rises above our expectations then we can do,talk about Peak experiences and delight and then the experience will be associated with a positive emotionso it is extremely important to understand our products spectation in just to give you an example,there's something that we need to understand about our brain a brain did not develop as fast as our technology,in one of the basic human needs is the traffic control and the response to the loss of control is the same and it doesn't matter.

[32:20]If you find the jungle fighting for a life if we are trying to possibly the street or if we are on stage in front of a big crowd so recently we have one of our clients music stationdo analyze the customers behavior on the pages and they were trying to push video content by having them load automatically.

[32:36]On your pages so what me so when we observe the behavior is it whenever the customer and to the website and counted the video immediately clicked on the pause button.

[32:46]85% of the customersthink I called you the video and click on the start button because clicking on the pulse by then put the control back into their own hands so it's not about the video was clickand well-designed it's not about the video it's about our private station and our emotion and you know different emotions affect.Whole different functions today influence information processing in-memory in different ways and it is extremely important to understand it.

Jason:[33:16]Andrew thinks of that autoplay video took the control away from me my expectation was birth control so there was this negative Delta of the experience versus my expectation and the.The further the Delta is from the the expectation positive or negative the more likely that emotion is to be preserved in our memory.

Liraz:[33:42]I need it depends because if you think about it from ever and evolutionary.Negative experiences are quicker and more likely to form long lasting memories because.It is much more valuable to hold on to those negative experiences and there is something that we need to know about our brains memory system Brands memory system work something like a pen in and out.So for a brief time before the ink dries it's possible to smell what's written.Did the memories Consolidated it changes very little so you need to be self-aware about the emotions that are revoked in your websites and products.

Jason:[34:21]Yeah and that's exactly what happened to you and your husband at your meeting right is you you both had this expectation and smudge the memory.The time and now they're heavily imprinted years later and I'm sure your memory was the accurate one by the.The another thing that's odd about that emotional memory that I've heard and tell me if I have this wrong but I've heard that sequence can also have some impact so we've always had thisthis piece of common advice that like the first and last experience in a a path are more likely to be imprinted in that memory than some of the inner.Yeah okay.

Liraz:[34:57]So for example if you go on vacation so when let's say that you are visiting to different states so the shift.Between when you move from one state to another then you're going to print it as well.And I you know the continent has a really great analogy about emotion he says that in one of his letter in the Q&A session there was a manand the man says that he has been listening to Symphony and it was absolutely a glorious musicI need the very end of the recording there was a dreadful stretching song,and any of the really quite emotionally it's ruined all experience for me I think about it it hasn't had to experience it had 20 minutes of Glorious music.Accounted for nothing because he was left with a memory the memory was ruined and the memory was hold your garden.

Jason:[35:49]Yep and so I think there's even things like I have a three-year-old at home and you know going to the doctor or stressful and they give you all these immunization shots and now they like they give you a dose of sugar.At the end of the shots and I I presume that part of that is so that like the last.

Liraz:[36:07]Find Alex.

Jason:[36:08]Final experience that kid has is like a nice nice dose of Sugar Rush which I feel like every time I go shopping if someone would just give me a hit of caffeine at the end I feel like that would be a really smart.That's why I think it's interesting cuz I talked with plants a lot about.The the role of brand and Tumi brand works both ways there's a psychologist at Stanford Professor Samsung that does.Is a principle called the absolute value and essentially it'shey brand has often been a surrogate for Quality when we can't judge the quality of products we associate quality with the familiar brand but they didn't the modern world it's much easier to judge,the true quality of products we have access to all this information at our fingertips and in an environment where it's easy to get objective information.Brand becomes less important as a surrogate for Quality Inn.

Liraz:[37:06]Yeah I think that it's not about the fact that Brands become less important it's about that people.Meaning of the growing flag of information goods and services the emerging middle in our memory and we cannot separate one brand from another and that is why,when our brain needs to choose a product for my multi to the product that are more that's the same characteristics the deciding factor will always be the emotions that are,so deciding to buy a certain brand has nothing to do with the features of and benefit of that product,think about your own smartphone how many of you can celebrate yours on the differences between your smartphone to the competition maybe if you like,most of us choose based on emotions that are attached to that bread so if there is an association between dead product in a positive emotion you think about the benefit you.You feel and you know Gladwell wrote in his book playing about the emotional shortcut hero they're the only way that you meant being could have ever survived the species for as long as we have,is that we have developed another kind of decision-making apparatus that is capable of making very quick judgment based on very little information,so if you have these emotional shortcut you don't need to think you just need to feel.

Jason:[38:25]Yeah exactly and that's always liked it when I do that to Value thing to a very famous brand they're always just hard in like oh my my friends is valuable in and then that's myCounterpoint no brand still has super important roles it's it's a it's a shortcut to these emotions.

Liraz:[38:42]Play The Association.

Jason:[38:44]I can be permanently associated with these emotions now the one downside of that is the relative to expectations.The expectations.Go up with that brand and then it it becomes increasingly difficult for Apple which is already beloved if they make a product that like disappoints customers in anyway it's a negative association versus.Yeah Samsung where we're at.

Liraz:[39:12]Yeah I wouldn't expect too much and yeah and it is very easy to disappoint our customers I think this is the most easiest thing in the world.

Jason:[39:21]And in you mention that like you know most of us like pick our phone and couldn't,describe why we we pick it up I would even argue it's worst most people will try to describe it the rationalize it.And not even realize that actually those rational reasons you just ate it had nothing to do.With why you until I always like on the internet where this big Echo chamber and you know you follow my Twitter feed and you'll see thousands of studies and all these studies are likesurveys of stated preferences and I hate those two studies because again those are consumers that are rationalizing why they did something instead ofobserved study.

Liraz:[39:59]Yeah we keep seeing these in psychological studies there is a God.People weekly inhabited really feel and you know what it's not because you're lying to you. Not lying it's because we just don't have ittrue regarding what motivates our behavior and there is a great experiment that was recently conducted the demonstrated so customers brainware scan using fmri device.And this technique measure changes in blood flow to correspond to increase and decrease in mental activity and the interesting finding all that customers were showing different products is part of the go-to-market strategy of these brotherand interesting be ifcustomer declares that is going to purchase a certain product but it was not an increase in the emotional brain Terraria those products usually felt,so it's not about asking people it's about trying to find out a different measurement to understand how they felt.

Jason:[40:52]Very cool and that's actually going to be a great place to leave it because it's happening again we've used up all our a lot of time.And I know it it it goes too fast and I could deep-diving a bunch of these topics with you would bebe fascinating but it wouldn't want to continue the conversation or they have further questions we have a Facebook page they're welcome to go to Facebook and post questions and I'll be happy to forward them to you.

Liraz:[41:16]Always would be great.

Jason:[41:17]We we can continue.The Dying Light there is listeners want to get in touch with you directly are you like is there a you have a preferred like you are you active on Twitter or do you.

Liraz:[41:28]Sure on Twitter on LinkedIn and of course if they are going to post question to the Facebook I will be more than happy to address the person.

Jason:[41:37]We we sure appreciate it I will put your links and our show notes and as always if you enjoyed Today Show we sure would appreciate it if you jump on the iTunes and give us that 5-star review there still rational listeners that want to read those.Does does reviews to pick a podand you know you can imagine Scott and Jason's great looking pictures if you if you want to go with it emotional reason to listen to our podcast but thank you guys very much in until next time,happy commercing.

Stripe is a payment processor that provides a set of tools to help businesses accept payment online. Their clients include Warby Parker, Wish, and Target. Lachy was the 30th employee at Stripe, he leads Stripe Issuing which is an end-to-end platform for quickly creating, distributing, and managing physical and virtual cards.

In this interview, we cover Lachy's background, the range of Stripes services, the state of online payments, mobile payment best practices, digital wallets, and marketplaces.

Don't forget to like our facebook page, and if you enjoyed this episode please write us a review on itunes.

Episode 140 of the Jason & Scot show was recorded on Friday, August 3, 2018.

Join your hosts Jason "Retailgeek" Goldberg, SVP Commerce & Content at SapientRazorfish, and Scot Wingo, Founder and Executive Chairman of Channel Advisor as they discuss the latest news and trends in the world of e-commerce and digital shopper marketing.

Vibhu Norby is the founder and CEO of b8ta. b8ta is a software-powered brick and mortar retailer designed to improve the customer and maker experience. They help people discover, try, and learn about new tech products while empowering makers with a simple retail-as-a-service model that puts them in control.

In this interview, we cover Vibhu's background, how he came to the idea for B8ta, b8ta's retail partnerships (including Lowe's and Macy's), their unique marketplace dynamic, their experiential retail as a service offering, their recent fundraising success, and Vibhu's vision for the future of retail.

Don't forget to like our facebook page, and if you enjoyed this episode please write us a review on itunes.

Episode 139 of the Jason & Scot show was recorded on Wednesday, August 1, 2018.

Join your hosts Jason "Retailgeek" Goldberg, SVP Commerce & Content at SapientRazorfish, and Scot Wingo, Founder and Executive Chairman of Channel Advisor as they discuss the latest news and trends in the world of e-commerce and digital shopper marketing.