If his career played out exactly the same but had a boring personality he'd be a combination of Holmes and Lennox Lewis: people would begrudgingly have to admit his place in history as a top 5 champion. I don't see how you couldn't with a resume like that. I mean, Joe Louis wasnt the most charismatic guy either, pretty boring honestly, and he's #1 or #2 on some people's lists.

Without Ali's personality and charisma, do you think he wouldn't be rated as high?

He was an amazing boxer first and foremost but I belive his personality and charisma enhanced his career.

Click to expand...

Give me the guys who couldn't match his charisma but could match him in terms of number of wins over top 10 ranked opponents, number of wins over top 5 ranked opponents, number of wins in title fights and number of wins over HWs in most's top 10-15.

Give me the guys who couldn't match his charisma but could match him in terms of number of wins over top 10 ranked opponents, number of wins over top 5 ranked opponents, number of wins in title fights and number of wins over HWs in most's top 10-15.

You will only find Louis who's even close.

Click to expand...

Ali's run through of 1970 - 1974 consisted more wins over ranked opposition while post prime than most heavyweight championship runs.

Let alone his atg chin, will to win and heart. Overall a special and unique fighter. He is the greatest after all.

I mean, Joe Louis wasnt the most charismatic guy either, pretty boring honestly, and he's #1 or #2 on some people's lists.

Click to expand...

Actually Joe Louis was both a father figure to the nation with his patriotic figure and encouraging speeches, and when he wanted to he had a quick wit, it just so happens he wasnt always allowed to show said wit

I find Louis very charismatic but I guess that's just me, seems to be an unpopular opinion

If his career played out exactly the same but had a boring personality he'd be a combination of Holmes and Lennox Lewis: people would begrudgingly have to admit his place in history as a top 5 champion. I don't see how you couldn't with a resume like that. I mean, Joe Louis wasnt the most charismatic guy either, pretty boring honestly, and he's #1 or #2 on some people's lists.

Click to expand...

I agree with most of this, but two very minor asides:
Joe Louis may not have been charismatic, but it seems to me he comes off as pretty likable.

Larry Holmes’ personality actually kind of grows on me after a while, a bit like an irascible uncle who always makes a minor scene at family gatherings but is all the more charming for it.

Actually Joe Louis was both a father figure to the nation with his patriotic figure and encouraging speeches, and when he wanted to he had a quick wit, it just so happens he wasnt always allowed to show said wit

I find Louis very charismatic but I guess that's just me, seems to be an unpopular opinion

Click to expand...

This. For his time Louis was definitely very charismatic. Just like Ali had the respect of his fans and his boxing peers so did Joe Louis. Both used their charisma and fame as Heavyweight World Champion to become advocates for positive social change both during and after their boxing years.

I never did get to meet Joe Louis, since he passed before my time, but I did get to meet Ali and Foreman in the 90’s at a muscular distrophy benefit and Foreman mentioned Joe Louis and Walcott hosting a similar benefit in the past for Ezzard Charles and that him and Ali were carrying on the effort to bring awareness to muscular distrophy.