META - MGoBlog rights a wrong, teams up with Hope for Pahokee Charity!

META - MGoBlog rights a wrong, teams up with Hope for Pahokee Charity!

EDIT: See Brian's comments at end of OP. As is the usual around here, the finest blog in the blogiverse, great good will come of what, just yesterday, seemed an unfortunate situation. Great job, MGoBlog.

ORIGINAL POST:

A week ago, Six Zero unveiled the 2012 MGoShirts. Included amongst them was this one:

Well, as many of you know, Hope for Pahokee, a charity started by Martavious Odoms (amongst others) to help impoverished Pahokee, Florida, has been selling #Eatin t-shirts for some time now, with 100 percent of the proceeds being directed to fighting hunger in Pahokee. http://hopeforpahokee.com/#65e/goodsie

A great deal of posters came forward in the comments section of the unveiling post to show their disdain for what is basically stealing. (http://mgoblog.com/diaries/official-unveiling-mgoshirts-fall-2012-edition#comment-1684703) Unless MGoBlog has some sort of agreement with Hope for Pahokee to give 100 percent of the proceeds of the MGoBlog "Eatin'" shirt to the charity, selling this "rip-off" is absolutely shameful and all involved should be embarassed regarding their decision making. Unfortunately, no representatives of MGoBlog have come forward to publicly address this issue, to remove the shirt from the store, to say there is a partnership with HfP, or in any way aleviate the concerns of the many posters regarding this product in the last 6 days since it was listed for sale. As of 4:23 PST, the shirt is still for sale with no indication that proceeds benefit Hope for Pahokee.

Come on, MGoBlog - you're better than this.

[ED: Hi. It's Brian. We're donating all proceeds from the shirt to Hope For Pahokee. I personally had missed the original Odoms shirt, and I'm sure Six did as well. You may resume panicking about the defensive line.]

I've previously spoken out against Denard's on-field eating stunt as a way of celebrating touchdowns. I hope we have seen the end of it.

The MGoShirt was seemingly celebrating that stunt. I don't like either one, but I will at least give the MGoStore that much credit. They were responding to what Denard did on the field. Not commandeering a charitable symbol.

And by his own account, Denard's "eating" was related to the team's feeling that they had been starved from winning, and that it was "time to eat." It was not, by Denard's own account, a signal of his support for a charity.

I've got nothing against Pahokee, or the Pahokee charity, or any other charity. But I do like accuracy, and I like careful attribution. The basic allegation in the OP is such a stretch, that I can't help but make this observation.

I hope the Pahokee charity is a success and that it finds a way to do the good works that are intended. I have also had enough of Michigan football players doing the "eating" thing on the field.

Certainly, by Denard's own words, he wasn't promoting any charity when he did the "eating" thing after scoring a touchdown.

Did the #EATING charity exist then? In November, 2011? I don't know; I don't think so. At least I don't recall it. As far as I can tell, it began in the spring of 2012. Is there any reference, anywhere, to "#EATING" before then?

Brian's gesture to donate proceeds of his Eating t-shirt to the Pahokee charity is (a) nice; (b) thoughtful, and (c) wise, from the standpoint of public relations and political correctness.

I never doubted that the MGo "Eating" shirts came after the "#EATING" charity formation. They both came after Denard's on-field "eating." Brian's shirt, as I understood it, was without reference to the charity, but rather was a direct reference to Denard's actions. Which originated, as I stated, without any thought to Pahokee. After which Denard was asked about it, and said not one thing about Pahokee.

Now while the chronology is pretty obvious to most, just because I am that kind of a guy, and you are that kind of a guy, here's the Denard quote, from November, 2011, for you to "eat":

The person who went off with harsh allegations bordering on illegality was, uh, you:

A great deal of posters came forward in the comments section of the unveiling post to show their disdain for what is basically stealing. (http://mgoblog.com/diaries/official-unveiling-mgoshirts-fall-2012-edition#comment-1684703) Unless MGoBlog has some sort of agreement with Hope for Pahokee to give 100 percent of the proceeds of the MGoBlog "Eatin'" shirt to the charity, selling this "rip-off" is absolutely shameful and all involved should be embarassed regarding their decision making. Unfortunately, no representatives of MGoBlog have come forward to publicly address this issue, to remove the shirt from the store, to say there is a partnership with HfP, or in any way aleviate the concerns of the many posters regarding this product in the last 6 days since it was listed for sale. As of 4:23 PST, the shirt is still for sale with no indication that proceeds benefit Hope for Pahokee.

I've asked Six Zero about this in multiple threads and he has ignored each of my questions. I don't buy that he didn't go back and read the comments in the MGoShirt unveiling less than 24 hours after it was posted.

Because I didn't want to pile on. But it does look bad that no one has even explained anything in a week. If MGoBlog has one flaw, it seems bad at communicating issues (HTTV, etc). There's tons of concepts for shirts; I don't see why anyone would be wedded to this one. It's not great. You'd think opening yourself up to litigious actions would be enough. But the silence has been pretty deafening.

I was about to support you on this but then your unnecessarily vitriolic final paragraph made me simply not like you, so now I will abstain from this argument. Telling people their behavior is sleezy and they should be embarrassed without knowing their motivations is not the best way to get what you want, especially since they provide you with a free service. So even though I agree with you in principle, I doubt this was intentionally stolen since the creators of the blog love Odoms and his work just as much as you. As others have said, if you want something done, probably best to keep your bashing discrete.

This blog has a section for users to create posts about Michigan football/the site. How is that not a perfect place to raise this? And anyone saying that these things are more effective if handled in private is missing how public pressure actually works.

I never said go away quietly. I said that this blog is not required to meet the demands of individual users or "aleviate the concerns of the many posters". They may want to if they think that's the best way to run a blog and increase their readership, and if they don't, they may drive people away. That's the risk they run. However, I think it's arrogant to come on the board and start telling the people who have made all this possible what they should and should not do.

I have no problem with you being as loud as you want, but your way of going about it has hurt your cause in my eyes...a cause I otherwise wasn't very familiar with until this post.

...I don't believe that the MGoStore is obliged to do so; free market economics and the like. We as consumers, however, can choose which shirt to purchase, knowing full-well where the proceeds will be distributed.

I'm not sure how this is really ripping off Odom's charity. The "Eatin" motion and talk was a pretty big theme for the team last year, and as you can tell by the multitude of shirts in the store pretty much every theme from last year has a shirt. Would be cool for the Mgostore to give the proceeds to Odoms' charity but I don't see it as any ethical obligation.

Really? Because from what I can tell, the first dated post at HopeforPahokee is from February 2012, months after the team was doing the #eating thing. Maybe Odoms started it much earlier, but I know I didn't hear about it or see any reference to it on this blog until after the season ended.

Like you're maing this up as you go. I don't find this surprising as I have found to be an arguementative ass in just about every thread I see you post in. In this case you had a decent point but as usual you went overboard when trying to make it and made no friends in doing so.

I actually didn't know about the Martavious Odoms Presents shirt until the other day when the thread Butterfield describes took place. When I learned about Odoms' shirt and that the proceeds would be donated to Pahokee, I ordered one. Just FWIW.

I have to agree that it's wrong and secondly I don't even think its that cool of a shirt. The #EATING one by Hope for Pahokee is a better shirt in my opinion. So that's two things against it, rip off and a bad one at that.

It would be magnanimous of Mgoblog to curtail sales of the shirt, but by no means are they "ripping off" Odoms' foundation. That foundation didn't come up with the concept; they only chose it as a way of using the idea for a good cause. Let's not get carried away here.

Wow. Who is going around negging all the comments that point out that this is NOT a rip off. Using the same word, but having a very different looking shirt is not the same at all. Personally, while I'm not in the market for either shirt, I would never want to wear the charity one, but I like the MGoBlog one a lot.

Slight style change? It's a completely different design. As in, it has a design.

But, honestly, that wouldn't really bother me, anyway. There's nothing really unique about the shirt, so if someone wanted to make a Jalen Rose #5 shirt and sell it, I would have no problem with it. (I don't know if there are any issues with getting permission from Rose to use his name, but there likely are, but that's a separate issue.)

My point is that if another site was selling a shirt that was in the same context as one that the MGoBlogStore was selling but not helping the former Michigan players charity we would take issue with it. The "Eatin'" one isn't that clever of a design and I would've liked it if we sold the charity one instead like we do with Jalen's shirt. Could've been a big oversight that wasn't realized but I honestly don't know how Six Zero didn't see the comments in the first thread questioning it when he was posting in that thread.

Edit: He didn't post in that thread but I find it highly unlikely he didn't read the first few comments.

If people want to support the charity then they can buy the Pahokee shirt (or donate directly). If they are just interested in the design of the MGoStore shirt then they can buy that one. Personally, I don't like the design of the Pahokee shirt, so I wouldn't consider buying it. However, I like the MGoStore design and might buy it. I'm an adult and can make my own decision. Hopefully others can too, so unless that saying is trademarked by Hope for Pahokee, then I don't know why this is such a big deal.

The only reason anyone would want that shirt in Michigan colors is because of the Michigan players who made the Eatin' gesture. I don't want it because some NFL player did it, I am aware of 'Eating' because Odoms, Denard, etc did it. I don't see some pro player on some team do a dance and then go "Oh I want that shirt referencing that in Michigan colors". Our current players brought it into this ecosystem and they're trying to send some money Pahokee's way since that gesture did take off.

Let them have it. This blog's entire revenue stream is based off their efforts, let them have their effort and stick some other shirt in the store. There are all kinds of other Michigan themes that could take its place.

I personally have also never seen anyone else do it, primarily I assume because I only casually follow the NFL.

If it's handled well by MGoBlog - and I bet it will be, eventually - this could be really nice exposure for Odoms and the rest of the kids he worked with.

I suspect that Brian has been busy with start-of-season stuff and will take care of this (and that doing so might be tricky with Underground Printing being involved, ads needing to be redesigned, etc.).

I don't know man. It seems like there are quite a few better ways to handle this and it doesn't seem like, based on your post, those have been tried yet.

(Also, rip-off is a very strong word for a shirt idea that literally everyone thought of when the players started doing it last year. If that's a 'rip-off', then I want credit for the Shoelaces shirt, the dreadlocks shirts, Hokemania shirts and the Mike Martin hulk smash shirts people created because I came up with those ideas before anyone made shirts for them.)

I get #eating is a great cause, but this isn't the right way to go about it. Wayyy more vinegar in this post than required.

I'm not into design patents, but the two shirts are substantially different. On a lot of levels. Can no one use the word "eatin'" or "eating" anymore on a shirt?

Your request for a response is reasonable. Your request to have the shirt pulled or all the profits donated is not. My guess is that the shirt is already made and it is not in the cards to suddenly throw out all the shirts or donate all proceeds (or profits) on it.

I like your post in that it brings attention to the very worthwhile cause Odoms has started. Maybe a nice thing the folks at MGoStore could do would be to link to the cause so people can buy whichever shirt (or both if they want).

Just that the two shirts seem completely different to me. I'm not sure how there is anything "unethical" about this at all.

It seems like the OP seems to think this is a deliberate rip-off of Odoms' cause. I think it's a completely different idea and executed completely differently.

I also give the benefit of the doubt to the MGoStore folks as I have not seen them rip-off other people before. I also have to think that they've got a bunch of shirts that they were hoping to sell and could lose a lot of money if they don't sell.

I'm not sure exactly what happened here, but I'm going to notify Brian about it. I'm not sure that he's even aware of this concern.

All I ask, is that we all please calm down and give Brian a chance to address the concern of the MGoUsers. Brian can not patrol this board all on his own. That's why he has moderators, like myself that do it for him. If anybody has screwed up here, it's us, the moderators. Personally, I didn't know that this was a concern until this evening. Brian makes every effort to address the concerns of the people that frequent the blog. This site gets, in the neighborhood, of 6 million page views a month. I'm sure you can imagine the large amounts of e-mail that Brian receives. If he has not answered your e-mails, it doesn't mean that he isn't interested in your concerns or that he doesn't feel that they are valid.

-Eric Upchurch

Disclaimer:

I'm simply the photographer for the site. I don't make executive decisions, but I do have direct contact with Brian. I will do my best to make sure that he is aware of this concern.

You know this dance wasn't invented by Odoms right? You know they didnt start doing the dance to help Pahokee right? If anything the shirt will bring more awareness to a great cause but your indignation is a little over the top. Email Brian if you are so pissed, I think he will handle it better then you have.

At the end of the day I like the MGoStore and I like Six-Zero. That said.

In my mind Odoms has the prior art on this. His #Eating concept came first. The players from Florida popularized it with the eating gesture*, the charity he established made use of the Eating hashtang, and started out the idea of clothing. I would prefer that Six-Zero's shirt simply cease to exsist or the profits for that specific shirt be redirected to the charity.

Secondly I do feel as if the blog has been dodging this issue. Concern over that shirt was the first comment made in the unveiling thread and the comments replying to it supported that comment. There was no reply by anyone associated with the business end of MGoBlog.

My personal view is that if this shirt remains for sale with profits returning to the blog, UGP ([email protected]) and Moe Sport Shops ([email protected]) will be getting an email informing them of my displeasure and the fact while that shirt is for sale, my business will be going to one of the sports shops that isn't a partner of MGoBlog (Ulrichs, M-Den,etc). I'd encourage others to do the same.

I'd have much rather seen one of the gag Upton shirts get greenlight and moved en masse to the tasteless party boy market demographic. As it stands this entire ecosystem is built on the backs of students who do it all for scholarships (assuming they're not a walkon) as amateurs. The entire field already makes a tidy profit off their image and efforts, which is one of the reasons many people, including Brian, have argued that these students deserve cost of living stipends and the like. To turn around and issue something that might even come close to cutting into the charity efforts of one of these individuals, after arguing they deserve more compensation, is just unacceptable to me. Brian rants and rails about Brandon selling us out and all that, but he has no issue dropping a product that at the very least brushes up against the fundraising efforts of current and former players, I really just have to shake my head at that.

*The only time I've seen this gesture in my life was when players in winged helmets did it. The NFL may have done it and all that, but the concept of 'Eating' is marketable to the Michigan fanbase because of what players on our roster from Florida did.

While the players certainly popularized the 'eating' stuff, they did so BEFORE Hope for Pahokee existed, and before the fundraising effort. It'd be like if it turned out Hoke decided to create the "Fedgodsakes Foundation" to battle cancer. Sure, he popularized the phrase, but it entered the lexicon without the correlation to the philanthropic efforts.

Six-Zero's shirt comes after Odoms had clearly attempted to claim the phrase and stake it out for charitable purposes. I agree Odoms likely did not use the phrase thinking "I'm going to use this a charity tagline". However he was attempt to go back and use that phrase was one prior to this shirt. His desire to use it charity does predate Six Zero's shirt.

I'll channel my inner blue hair and simply go with:

"A Michigan Man should not be releasing for profit products based on the words and actions of a player, when that player is attempting to use those words for charitable fundraising."

Odoms clearly used it for a shirt before Six Zero. I'm just saying that it wasn't like the only reason Six would have known the phrase was from the Pahokee stuff. Presumably he learned of it the same way I did (from the players during the season), and may have been unaware of the prior appropriation of the phrase.

I agree that they should make good on this, and Brian's comments below seem to indicate they will. I'm just suggesting that it was likely a coincidence rather than a nefarious effort.

**Preface: I am in no way involved in the MGoStore stuff, and have no input in the whole shirt thing**

Generally speaking, posting actual concerns in the comments is a terrible way to communicate with Brian, and is not even an especially reliable way to be sure information has been relayed to a poster if they don't respond. If you have a serious concern, you can e-mail mgoblog (at) gmail.com. Or you can contact one of the mods (who are on the board WAY more often than Brian/Ace/etc.), who can relay information to the appropriate party.

I will email Six-Zero and Brian momentarily to make sure they were aware of the situation. I don't know if they will respond to the OP, but the information will be in their possession this evening.

As to the issue itself, I think it's important to note that the phrase "we're eatin'" pre-dates the creation of the Hope for Pahokee shirt. It was a statement made during the season, and Odoms didn't start HFP until after he stopped playing (I'm not even sure it would have been NCAA permissible for an active player). Also, I consider myself one of the more attentive Michigan fans and MGoBlog users, and I had almost completely forgotten about the Hope for Pahokee shirt, let alone the design. I didn't even note the correlation when I first saw the shirts, and I didn't notice any comments about it in the thread. So to attribute Six Zero's design (which is completely different from Odoms') to maliciousness when an equally (if not more) plausible explanation is inadvertant correlation is a leap I'm not willing to make/

Finally, there are ways to make a point without subsequently being a jackass in the comments. Just a thought.

Not trying to be a asshole... But I read at least 3 or 4 comments referencing the Hope for Pahokee shirt in the first 20 or 30 responses to the shirts release. Six Zero was asking for feed back about the shirts but then didn't read the comments? Not trying to defend the jackassery of the op but if Six Zero responds in some way this thread is probably not on the board.

You didn't read the comments. They had to be a third of them. And the point is you don't need to notify Six Zero...not only was there a lot of it in his thread, he's been asked elsewhere. Either every time he's come on to post he's ignored old posts, or just ignored the question.

Though in fairness I tend to read comments differently than other people (looking for flamebait, trolling, etc.). My point is largely that unless someone replies to your comments, it's impossible to know whether someone actually read the comments in a thread, so if you think information NEEDS to get to someone, going the mod/Brian route is the only way to be sure the info got through.

Because I don't think he gives the board a second glance. And that's fine, he's busy. Six Zero can certainly respond, or bring it to someone's attention. This is not one that really took a week of deliberation.

[ED: Hi. It's Brian. We're donating all proceeds from the shirt to Hope For Pahokee. I personally had missed the original Odoms shirt, and I'm sure Six did as well. You may resume panicking about the defensive line.]

I doubt the shirt was intentionally "stolen" from the Pahokee charity. That said, given that this concerned has been raised several times (ie, one ofmthe players who brought the sign to the team is trying to use it charitably), and no action has been taken, it's too bad it hasn't been addressed. I think continuing to sell the shirtmis bad form. Hopefully it is addressed.

Now that the issue has been resolved, I'd like to make a brief statement. While I am a contracted designer for the MGoStore and help promote it within this site and beyond, I am not its proprietor, business manager or owner. As far as this issue was concerned, it was not my call, and i refrained to comment out of respect for those who have indeed made the appropriate decision for everyone.

Secondly, when I did create the design, I was not aware of the Tae Odoms design. All apologies to him and his charity... I give my word that there was no intent to steal on anyone else's endeavors let alone a charitable pursuit.

Finally, I'd like to address Turd Ferguson's animosity towards me, presumably the result of his thinking I was refusing to acknowledge him. I apologize if you felt slighted or ignored, but I had no intent to betray any business partners or partnerships just because you'd called me out. And as for the avatar thing, I took that stance (and defend it) because I created that artwork specifically to be my signature image. Plenty of other readers use my work as their avatar and I have no issues with this at all, but I'd like to reserve rights to the little #60 Lego guy b/c I'll likely go back to it someday. I hope that provides some understanding to my reasoning there.

But I don't think saying "Wow, I wasn't aware of that or totally forgot it. I'll bring it to Brian's attention and see what he wants to do" is violating any fiduciary relationships. I'll repeat it's like HTTV- ignoring it publically is never a good solution, because then it goes from looking like an honest mistake everyone is willing to believe from trusted sources to willful ignorance, or if someone really doesn't know better, "nefarious looking." Don't let a one day story become a two day story. PR 101.

And I obviously do not know all of the details behind your legal and professional relationship with MGoBlog.

But, what was preventing you from posting something along the lines of, "Guys - I understand your concern. I did not steal this. This is not my call, but I have brought it to Brian's attention."?

Obviously, some people are wound a little tight 'round these parts, but that simple acknowledgement that you witnessed the complaints about the shirt and were going to try to discuss with Brian about it would have saved a hell a lot of unnecessary hand-wringing around here, and it would have been much preferable to dead silence about the issue, in my opinion.

While I appreciate the apology, Ithe angry mob has already made arrangements to cast you into the fires of Centralia, PA and I'm informed that deposit is non-refundable. So sorry man. For what it is worth, I was trying for the reactor core at TMI but it was all booked up, so the flaming coal mine was a backup.

Seriousily though I'm glad this is all resolved and I don't think anyone thought you were ripping off Hope for Pahokee, it was more of just wondering why the shirt was still in the store without some kind of announcement.

Thanks for the response. I agree with M-Wolverine's and Keith's comments above - and still don't think your tone in chastising the guy who used your work in his avatar was necessary - but I appreciate that you responded.

Also, for the record, I couldn't care less whether you responded to me. I did think that you needed to say something about this, though.

until we finalize everything with HfP. We have sold three shirts to date, and we will be donating all proceeds to them regardless of whether the shirt stays up as a charity shirt or they want us to take down for good. Apologies to all for the lack of communication on this.

My reaction? Good Job, Brian. You guys know how to run a blog here! Now if only I could find a blog as informative about economics, or even a half-way decent Medieval history blog, that'd be something.