Atheists and Weapons - Think Atheist2016-12-09T17:27:13Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/atheists-and-weapons?x=1&id=1982180%3ATopic%3A351284&feed=yes&xn_auth=noPlease, Jean. In one or two l…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-09-13:1982180:Comment:3590022010-09-13T20:36:01.635ZPrecambrian Lullabyhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/PrecambrianLullaby
Please, Jean. In one or two lines... What is that extremely well worded question again?
Please, Jean. In one or two lines... What is that extremely well worded question again? Text book. You're libelous. T…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-09-13:1982180:Comment:3589682010-09-13T20:09:53.049ZPrecambrian Lullabyhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/PrecambrianLullaby
Text book. You're libelous. The amount of direct misquotes is astonishing.<br />
"NEED a gun"<br />
"Want a gun"<br />
"I fear the government"<br />
<u>LIBEL</u><br />
If you have an issue about how I've conducted myself up to this point feel free to report me... If this is the type of conduct that this site and community promotes and fosters, then I'm sure I can handle a ban comfortably.<br />
<br />
I do not fear the government. That seems to be the talking point you keep latching on to. DESPITE the countless number of ways I've…
Text book. You're libelous. The amount of direct misquotes is astonishing.<br />
"NEED a gun"<br />
"Want a gun"<br />
"I fear the government"<br />
<u>LIBEL</u><br />
If you have an issue about how I've conducted myself up to this point feel free to report me... If this is the type of conduct that this site and community promotes and fosters, then I'm sure I can handle a ban comfortably.<br />
<br />
I do not fear the government. That seems to be the talking point you keep latching on to. DESPITE the countless number of ways I've stated it.<br />
<br />
You keep trying to get me to rationalize a fear that I've already addressed as not having.<br />
<br />
So what exactly is it that you are gaining/trying to gain from this exchange? Dig trolling? Get a kick out of misrepresenting people's character?<br />
<br />
You've made no valid point or remark for me to even reply to.<br />
<br />
Watch <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe8KzXEsT04" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe8KzXEsT04</a><br />
skip to 7:30, the part that talks about the Dimestore Freud... textbook. DO EET!<br />
<br />
/thread Not once, at all, did I ever…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-09-13:1982180:Comment:3583992010-09-13T12:20:09.387ZPrecambrian Lullabyhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/PrecambrianLullaby
Not once, at all, did I ever in this whole thread state that I feared the government.<br />
<br />
Furthermore my above post addressed your applealing to ethos, that means 'argument by character'. AND YOU RESORTED TO IT AGAIN HERE. Even after I mention that this is what you've been doing and that it has no effect you somehow feel that continuing will get you somewhere?<br />
<br />
In fact I've stated that I cannot, nor to I endeavor to visualize a scenario where I feel that owning a gun would save me from my…
Not once, at all, did I ever in this whole thread state that I feared the government.<br />
<br />
Furthermore my above post addressed your applealing to ethos, that means 'argument by character'. AND YOU RESORTED TO IT AGAIN HERE. Even after I mention that this is what you've been doing and that it has no effect you somehow feel that continuing will get you somewhere?<br />
<br />
In fact I've stated that I cannot, nor to I endeavor to visualize a scenario where I feel that owning a gun would save me from my government. I merely stated a distrust in it. Do you 'trust' the government entirely, Jean? And yet you continue to assert ON MY BEHALF that I fear the government and that YOU want ME to justify the fear that YOU claim I have. I don't need to validate the fear you suppose I have for my government as a basis for owning a gun. You haven't even suppied that that's even a basis I have past cherry-picking my comments and "KEY-WORD" mining (barely even quote mining).<br />
<br />
You've just validated every single one of my assertions in a single post. You don't even see that, do you?<br />
<br />
I never stated that I "fear" the government AT ALL.<br />
<br />
YOU SAID THAT I FEAR THE GOVERNMENT.<br />
<br />
You haven't even substantiated that<br />
A: I even fear the government and<br />
B: That that "fear" is my sole basis owning a gun.<br />
<br />
The only contexts in which I've even MENTIONED the government I've either stated that<br />
1. currently I am secure with our government, but I do distrust it<br />
2. that the current administration is no cause for concern that would warrant the use of violence<br />
3. and in the case of people getting dragged out of their homes <b>(WHICH I REMIND WAS <i>YOUR</i> CONSTRUCT)</b> i would confront the issue nonviolently. Which, unless you're retarded, implies NO GUN!<br />
<br />
Watch <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe8KzXEsT04" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe8KzXEsT04</a><br />
skip to 7:30, the part that talks about the Dimestore Freud<br />
<br />
The really pathetic thing is that you really seem to be under this impression that you've been doing well. The only people who are going to be drawn in by your debate are the people who already agree with you. Most anyone else will be repulsed by the hostile environment your creating. And the supposed notions of your "victory" (as that's obviously all your going for) is base off of a delusional ad-populum.<br />
<br />
Thank you Jean. I know all I really know about you now. We're done. You're just going for some sort of "W".<br />
<br />
And since I'm sensing the deep-seeded NEED for a trophy I'll go ahead and give it to you.<br />
<br />
EVERYONE I JUST WANTED YOU TO KNOW THAT JEAN JUST WON!!! EVERYBODY CONGRATULATE HER FOR!!!<br />
<br />
<br />
...I've really tried very very hard to be nice. But I refuse my character to be blindly spat upon for the sick amusement of some pathological nut-job who's afraid of militia groups.<br />
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As you've said yourself, it's all there to be looked at unless you delete your posts. Tacoma, then, was crazy. I wa…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-09-13:1982180:Comment:3581612010-09-13T04:01:31.605ZGaytorhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Gaytor
Tacoma, then, was crazy. I walked out behind an armed robber not 50 feet behind him and got the license plate as they drove away. My bosses eyes almost fell out of his head. It was like Memphis today. Maybe it was youthful arrogance, maybe I saw people for what they are? In terms of experiencing bad folks, I have stories.
Tacoma, then, was crazy. I walked out behind an armed robber not 50 feet behind him and got the license plate as they drove away. My bosses eyes almost fell out of his head. It was like Memphis today. Maybe it was youthful arrogance, maybe I saw people for what they are? In terms of experiencing bad folks, I have stories. Nah. I think that it's safer…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-09-13:1982180:Comment:3581482010-09-13T03:01:16.337ZGaytorhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Gaytor
Nah. I think that it's safer than when I was 18 to say 22 (36 now). Tacoma was once the murder capital of the US in like 1993. The guy in the truck was just a kook. Seattle is pretty run of the mill or less these days. Mill Creek, the city I live in (burbs of Seattle) is stupid safe. If someone tried to commit a crime on me here I'd probably say, "Really?" and smile in shock. My truck tool box has a couple grand in tools and the lock is broken. Has been since two trucks ago.
Nah. I think that it's safer than when I was 18 to say 22 (36 now). Tacoma was once the murder capital of the US in like 1993. The guy in the truck was just a kook. Seattle is pretty run of the mill or less these days. Mill Creek, the city I live in (burbs of Seattle) is stupid safe. If someone tried to commit a crime on me here I'd probably say, "Really?" and smile in shock. My truck tool box has a couple grand in tools and the lock is broken. Has been since two trucks ago. Sounds self-fulfilling. My st…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-09-13:1982180:Comment:3580592010-09-13T01:18:24.076ZGaytorhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Gaytor
Sounds self-fulfilling. My step-father was a Federal Officer (Border Patrol) and had to draw once in his entire career. It wasn't a favorite moment in his career. I think that people romanticize it and they've watched way too many movies.<br />
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The scenario that may have been worse had I had a gun, I was living in Tacoma WA in 92. I was going to college and stocking shelves in a grocery store at night. Someone came in and stole some beer. I run him down around the side of the store and take him…
Sounds self-fulfilling. My step-father was a Federal Officer (Border Patrol) and had to draw once in his entire career. It wasn't a favorite moment in his career. I think that people romanticize it and they've watched way too many movies.<br />
<br />
The scenario that may have been worse had I had a gun, I was living in Tacoma WA in 92. I was going to college and stocking shelves in a grocery store at night. Someone came in and stole some beer. I run him down around the side of the store and take him down. He's not speaking English (Hispanic) and I hear screeching tires in the parking lot coming my way. Tacoma was a gang violence capital then. This van comes around the corner with the side door open and guy with a handgun hanging out of it. I pull his buddy off the ground into a rear naked choke with him on his knees in front of me. I put my head behind his chest on his back so if the trigger is pulled, your buddy is coming with me. The van gets to us so I stand him up and push him towards his friend. Had I had a gun, there may have been dead bodies, over beer. I would have been justified, but put myself at greater risk.<br />
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It's not the only time I've faced a gun too. The second time the gun man ran because I wasn't stopping in coming at him. It was over us passing him on the freeway. He thought that we were going too fast and tried to slow us down over and over. It really seems to be a tool of cowards more often than responsibility. I say that as an owner and having grown up with them on the wall. I'm concerned that the position of your friends is far too common and not good for anyone.<br />
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Thanks for the comment. Yep - a loaded weapon is a le…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-09-13:1982180:Comment:3580452010-09-13T01:03:37.805ZMatt Coulthursthttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/MattCoulthurst
Yep - a loaded weapon is a legal admission of pre-meditation in this country.<br />
<br />
Even having a baseball bat or similar behind the counter (of any shop) can be an admission of premeditation if you were to get involved in an altercation at work.<br />
<br />
I do enjoy living in a country where even the most mundane callout of the Armed Offenders Squad is national news.
Yep - a loaded weapon is a legal admission of pre-meditation in this country.<br />
<br />
Even having a baseball bat or similar behind the counter (of any shop) can be an admission of premeditation if you were to get involved in an altercation at work.<br />
<br />
I do enjoy living in a country where even the most mundane callout of the Armed Offenders Squad is national news. The answer to your question:…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-09-13:1982180:Comment:3580422010-09-13T00:55:12.530Zdouglas carsonhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/douglascarson
The answer to your question: Yes I own many guns, and have a carry permit. I hope I never have to fire in self-defense, but since a god is not looking out for me, I have to look out for myself. Most, but not all, are historic black powder weapons. Most of my shooting buddies are Christian zealots who hope they will get to shoot someone before they die.
The answer to your question: Yes I own many guns, and have a carry permit. I hope I never have to fire in self-defense, but since a god is not looking out for me, I have to look out for myself. Most, but not all, are historic black powder weapons. Most of my shooting buddies are Christian zealots who hope they will get to shoot someone before they die. If the police hear anything a…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-09-11:1982180:Comment:3565092010-09-11T05:34:10.873ZEoganachthttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Peter669
If the police hear anything about someone waving a gun around, they send armed defenders (SWAT). It works very well. Our military adopts the same tact; and our airforce only has a few cargo planes... and our navy only has two small frigates.<br />
This law is taken very serriously and even gunshops are frowned on if they have loaded guns under the counter.
If the police hear anything about someone waving a gun around, they send armed defenders (SWAT). It works very well. Our military adopts the same tact; and our airforce only has a few cargo planes... and our navy only has two small frigates.<br />
This law is taken very serriously and even gunshops are frowned on if they have loaded guns under the counter. This is a reply to Jean and t…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-09-11:1982180:Comment:3563592010-09-11T01:54:28.845ZPrecambrian Lullabyhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/PrecambrianLullaby
This is a reply to Jean and the above fire-extinguisher analogy. I understand your example and find no flaw of reason to it. But again I must point out that your example does not extend past a general concern.<br />
<br />
<b><i>A rational reason to have fire extinguishers in my home, is, i would be able to use the thing to put a fire, which could indeed occur. I could maybe extinguish a small fire, until that socialist fire dept shows up to make sure all is well.</i></b><br />
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You will find that if I started…
This is a reply to Jean and the above fire-extinguisher analogy. I understand your example and find no flaw of reason to it. But again I must point out that your example does not extend past a general concern.<br />
<br />
<b><i>A rational reason to have fire extinguishers in my home, is, i would be able to use the thing to put a fire, which could indeed occur. I could maybe extinguish a small fire, until that socialist fire dept shows up to make sure all is well.</i></b><br />
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You will find that if I started asking you about any specific scenario where your home may catch fire we end up talking about details that may never occur and insomuch would be easy to extrapolate paranioa or a lack of reason.<br />
<br />
If you, for instance were to tell me that leaving your stove on could cause a fire or that there is faulty wiring in your home that my ignite a fire. Anyone coming from an anti-fire extinguisher position could easily question: "Well why would you leave your stove on to begin with, if your so worried about it just don't ever turn it on and order out. SEE? There ARE alternatives, you know? And why don't you just have the wiring replaced? If you can't afford it, just move to someplace cheaper that has better wiring?"<br />
<br />
I submit a qoute from Michel to exemplify:<br />
<b>"<u>I think that it is necessary to have the means to defend your home and livelihood against all threats foreign and domestic.</u>"<br />
<br />
<i>Unless you live in a border town with a hostile country, foreign threats for which a firearm (or two for that matter) can be useful defense are very unlikely.</i></b><br />
<br />
This does not invalidate that the government has the power to, and very well could at it's discretion oppress the people... at all. This type of response is tailored to make the listener feel guilty or stupid for advocating under a certain logos. <i><u>To declare that it has a small probability of occurrence does not negate the probability all together</u>.</i> It argues from pathos as a replacement for logos.<br />
<br />
Not that I'd expect you to go in that direction in the case of guns, but that is where the conversation inevitably leads in the case of oppositional conversation is geared to go. This is why when someone demands that I give up a construct <i><u>at thier discretion</u></i> a situation to justify MY position I refuse.<br />
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If I where to tell you that I want to own a gun in case anyone tries to enter my home with the intention of infringing upon my freedoms or ending my life I would like to have the means to defend myself. it should serve as sufficient for the requirements of the post I'm responding to.<br />
But, where does the conversation go from there? It doesn't just stop there does it? I assume you would ask me to justify that concern as that's how we got here to begin with.<br />
<br />
<b><i>"What dept is it that you need a gun for?"</i></b><br />
<br />
<b><i>"But you are right, you have a right to state you need a gun to protect you from "the govt," even if you can not explain your fear."</i></b><br />
Pathos leading again to an ethos AGAINST me. Again I remind that it is YOU who are trying to persuade ME... this is <b>NOT</b> how you do it... although I do find it... <i>adorable?</i><br />
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As I've said it's not my place to construct scenarios. I stated a general concern.<br />
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Past that it's matter of who has the agenda. Who's trying to change who's mind? I'm certainly not trying to convert you to being a card-carrying member of the NRA. I'm not even trying to get you to look at a gun.<br />
<br />
You will find that whenever you <i>try to not</i> only identify your own logos (you do so extraneously, might I add) but get people to subscribe to it, offending <i>Ethos</i> by assaulting your listener with phrases like "<i>(I resisted the urge to insert a tin-foil hat pic right there for the CIA one..)</i>" will never <b>ever</b> prove effective.<br />
<br />
But if you wish to clarify, please stick with logos, and just answer simply: Jean, what objection do you have against me owning a gun that will most undoubtedly sit in my basement and collect dust and go unused?"<br />
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Again YOU ARE THE PERSUADER, you will accomplish nothing by attacking my reasons for doing so... you actually have to give a valid and persuasive reason to NOT.<br />
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Sorry it took a sec... I can't find a "reply to this for your last post"<br />
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I just wanted to answer for your last post, but I'm happy to just squelch it. I've accepted your apology in earnest and am ready to move on... =)