Posted
by
timothy
on Tuesday November 20, 2012 @01:37PM
from the genuine-angus dept.

Hugh Pickens"The LA Times reports that after years of stubbornly arguing that iTunes was, in the words of singer Brian Johnson, 'going to kill music if they're not careful,' AC/DC has reached a deal with Apple to sell its entire catalog — 16 studio albums, four live albums and three compilations — through the service. AC/DC was one of the last high-profile holdouts from the digital music marketplace, outlasting the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd, all of which jumped into the realm long after much of the population had accepted the downloading future. Angus Young, AC/DC's lead guitarist (known for wearing a schoolboy's uniform when performing), had long argued against hawking the band's music because he didn't like the idea of allowing for individual song downloads — submitting that the group's albums were designed to be listened to from beginning to end. 'It's like an artist who does a painting,' he said in 2008. 'If he thinks it's a great piece of work, he protects it. It's the same thing: This is our work.'"

Perhaps he does, but he doesn't have control of how his music is distributed. We all are aware that most music distribution corporations own various rights to distribute music and they do so the way it is agreed.

So if AC/DC has not signed away their digital distribution rights, they may choose the way their music is distributed. And perhaps they believe that their music should not be chopped up.

It's the artist's choice. If they feel that strongly and are willing to forgo the money that they would make fr

I could see this for bands like Pink Floyd too...I mean, their albums, especially from their heyday (DSOTM, Animals, WYWH, and The Wall)...I still to this day, can rarely play one song from those, if I want to listed to any of the songs on one of those albums, I'll listen to the whole thing as a singular work, with different chapters.

I like AC/DC, but I don't think of their music in the same album singularity of work thing.

That's not how it worked. When this music was new, we had vinyl records. No remote control, no "skip" button. You put the record on the turntable, pit the needle in the groove, and listened. No way to mix up the tracks short of making a mix tape.

Dark Side of the Moon was one of these, and it wasn't designed to be listened to like you listen to a CD; when side 1 was over, you walked to the turntable, turned the record over, and played side two. DSOM doesn't really work well as a single track, but as two tracks.

However, ACDC is full of shit on this one. Their songs were never meant to be listened to in any particular order, and in fact that cassettes often had the songs in a different order than the LP, unlike DSOM, Magical Mystery Tour, Tommie, etc.

Vinyl records have index marks where the grooves are more widely spaced. CDs have index marks in the table of contents. If you want to make your album a unit, make it one continuous mix like a Mike Oldfield album [wikipedia.org].

CDs specify a pause before each track. Usually it's 2 seconds (my old player counts down -0:02, -0:01, 0:00, 0:01), but it can be set to zero, in which case there's no gap at all, and the index is just a pointer to a frame to start playback from.

All audio CDs following the Redbook standard are a single data stream, so I'm not sure where you are going with your argument. It is true that tracks are delineated only by the Table of Contents, but why would AC/DC program a Table of Contents if the Disc was intended to be listened to only in it's entirety?

I believe it's MP3s which have the 2 second pause. The GP's CDs are probably compiled from MP3s. It's probably why I also see messages about "gap information" when I'm transfering MP3s to my ipod with fubar 2000

Of course the artist "made" the albums on dozens of different pieces of individual tape per track and often multiple takes per song. A Record or CD is like selling us a "picture" of an oil painting... Not the Actual painting with all the bumps and rough spots. The "Origanal Art" is the spliced up mix that can only be listened to on original recording equipment...... Just to be specific.... Besides has AC/DC released anything since CD was INVENTED any

CDs specify a pause before each track. Usually it's 2 seconds (my old player counts down -0:02, -0:01, 0:00, 0:01), but it can be set to zero, in which case there's no gap at all, and the index is just a pointer to a frame to start playback from.

I have a few electronic albums like this.

CDs do not specify a pause at all. The pause you're most likely referring to was that moronic burning software from the late 90s early 2000s that had those default options. A player that imposed such a moronic concept on its CDs would destroy the flow of an album like NIN's Pretty Hate Machine, from 1989, among others. Many CDs are mastered with a "quiet" period of approximately a second or so between songs, matching the pauses between songs on LPs, which were the visible areas (widely spaced grooves) so th

CDs do not specify a pause at all. The pause you're most likely referring to was that moronic burning software from the late 90s early 2000s that had those default options. A player that imposed such a moronic concept on its CDs would destroy the flow of an album like NIN's Pretty Hate Machine, from 1989, among others. Many CDs are mastered with a "quiet" period of approximately a second or so between songs, matching the pauses between songs on LPs, which were the visible areas (widely spaced grooves) so that a person could drop the needle near the beginning of a particular song of interest. There are also LPs where an entire side appears or sounds as one track - I believe side A of Tangerine Dream's Force Majeure and Rush's 2112 were 2 samples, but it's been a long time since I broke out any vinyl.

The track lead-in/leadout (1 second at the beginning, 1 second at the end) is really just a "landing zone" for the read head. A CD head is not particularly accurate - just because you give a HH:MM:SS.ff (frame) in the TOC doesn't mean if you select Track 3, you'll hit it exactly. In fact, you're likely to be quite a ways off. The quiet period simply lets the head be up to a second off either way without accidentally playing back the previous track or cutting into the next track.

Data CDs kept this for the same reason - a multisession CD also has the same limitation (each new session "patches" the prevoius session so it has to seek around and needs a landing zone).

Bad CD burner apps only do "track at once" mode where it writes a track at a time. This means every track requires a mandatory leadin/leadout (and a write to the TOC), and for audio, that means a quiet period of about a second. If you master in "disc at once" mode, you can lay down tracks with no quiet periods which is how you do "live" CDs with no quiet between songs (the TOC is written at the beginning). TAO does allow you to add tracks at the end, as the disc isn't closed, while DAO tends to force closing of the disc when it's done.

Sometimes shortening the leadout of the disc can give you a few extra MB of storage

I remember getting the wax cylinder out of the box, putting it in the CD player, pressing the "Side B" button, then the button labeled "Track 4", then setting the speed to 45 revolutions per minute and finally tuning to 101.7 on the frequency modulating carrier wave to enable the decoding of the psycho-acoustically encoded audio frames.

I actually wish that were true, then they would be consistently listenable, but all their stuff from the mid 90s on is just lame. Where is the "You shook me" or "Shoot to thrill" after 94? They don't exist. AC USED to be able to write the most catchy hooks, you would hear an AC song and be singing along because you...just couldn't HELP but like it, it was too damned upbeat and catchy. it was great music to go flying down the freeway to.

I'm sorry but you listen to the later singles and they are just...meh.

Its the HOOKS man, the hooks just aren't there. As a bass player i can tell you there is just something...magical for want of a better term when you're playing and you just hit this...perfect sequence where you have the whole audience just moving in a perfect groove like, like, its almost like everything becomes connected, its like this perfect groove that everything just falls into and you just can't help but go with the groove like a wave.

But I can tell you its DAMNED hard to get that going just right, I know that if I'm not given a decent drummer that can read where i'm going and give me the right back up its just gonna trainwreck and trying to write a truly good hook on a timetable? Damned near impossible, it just don't work that way.

The fact that AC and Rush put out so many great hits in the past meant that at that particular moment in time everything was fucking PERFECT, all the musicians could read each other like books and once one of them starting on a groove the others would pick it up and build on it and the next thing you know BAM! they've got a killer song. Unfortunately chemistry is just one of those things you can't fake, either you are all on the same page or you're not. I have played with guitarists that at one time we just fucking gelled sooo damned good, when they would start playing I didn't have to be told a damned thing because I KNEW, just by the feel and the mood and the tempo EXACTLY where they were gonna go and likewise When I would start to percolate a nice thick bottom they knew EXACTLY where I was gonna go and would compliment my groove so fucking perfectly you'd swear we must have played that song a million times when we were making it up on the spot, but years later I get a chance to play with them and its just.....its not like anybody is BAD,its just you have had different experiences and just don't really feel and understand the person you are playing with so there is this...friction that keeps the parts from gelling, like a grinding gear that once worked wonderfully it just doesn't really...fit in that slot anymore.

I know that probably sounds hippy and weird but its really fucking HARD to describe what it feels like to just be in that zone playing, I've always said its almost like my brain has shut down and its just my emotions pouring through the fingers, i have to go back and listen just to figure out some passages because its almost like it isn't me that is playing it, because without the instrument in my hand I'm just not able to feel or express like that.

And that is what i think happened to AC and Rush, its not like any of them have gotten BAD, on the contrary that many years with their instruments they are more skilled that ever, but its not skill that writes the great hook, its emotion, its feeling that groove and just letting it flow and becoming this one living thing, you are just in this perfect zone and it all just flows, but these guys have grown apart and just don't have that ability anymore.

I'll never forget what an engineer told me when I was recording a song with one of the previous bands i had played with.I had spent a LOT of time on this song coming up with a very intricate but tasty bass line I wanted for the song, and I had played it enough live i could do that riff in my sleep. But when it came time to play the song in the studio while i did the riff i wanted in the first bridge we had been having a great day and we were all into it and I just completely forgot the riff and played what I was feeling then, this wild abandoned fun that we were having together. So afterwards I tell the engineer I want to punch in and replace the second bridge with the riff and he said "Are you shitting me? No way, no way in HELL do you want to screw that up! What you did in the first bridge was cool but the second is just fricking FUN with a capital F, and it fits everything soooo damned good, don't mess it up" and sure enough it got to that second bridge and I pointed out the difference and they played that part back a few times and they were all

The songs played on the radios were regarded by the bands as adverts (see: payola), and as such they didn't want to play the whole album because they wanted people to have to buy it to listen to the whole thing. The individual songs played on the radio were regarded as previews, not as complete works in themselves. In contrast, a downloaded track is regarded as a complete work by the band. No one complains that film previews contain scenes out of order, or that book previews only contain the first chapter, but the creators of both would strongly object to the idea of selling films by the scene[1] or books by the chapter.

[1] Certain Hollywood companies, however, would be very much in favour of this if they thought that they could get people to pay more that way.

The songs played on the radios were regarded by the bands as adverts (see: payola), and as such they didn't want to play the whole album because they wanted people to have to buy it to listen to the whole thing. The individual songs played on the radio were regarded as previews, not as complete works in themselves. In contrast, a downloaded track is regarded as a complete work by the band. No one complains that film previews contain scenes out of order, or that book previews only contain the first chapter, but the creators of both would strongly object to the idea of selling films by the scene[1] or books by the chapter.

[1] Certain Hollywood companies, however, would be very much in favour of this if they thought that they could get people to pay more that way.

I'd argue they were almost there already. There's not enough story in the last Twilight to justify splitting it up into two films. There's only one motivation behind that.

It'd be more like a TV show analogy, after the TV series finally quits or gets cancelled... you have individual episodes which (more or less) stand on their own to varying degrees, some shows which are two-parters ("to be continued..."), and there should be an overall story arc that ties the shows together and provides some source of overall continuity (if the producers have any brains, anyway).

Any event, the TV show analogy fits: You can watch just the favorite episodes, watch the whole season in one go, or get the whole series and do a marathon. Just like songs: singles, albums, discographies.

Some single episodes/songs are masterful and epic, while others simply blow goats. Sometimes you want to do the whole series/album, crappy episodes/songs along with the good, just to get the whole arc for that season. Sometimes it only makes sense to do it as a whole series or album (e.g. X-Files for TV, or Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime for audio.) Other times, you can very easily break it up and enjoy the individual bits (e.g. Invader Zim or, well, any album made by AC/DC).

All that said and done, I sincerely doubt that AC/DC ever had an album that was made with an arc or story that ties the individual songs together.

Well, they also did Iron Man 2 -- which no matter what your opinion of the movie, made a butt-load of money and got them exposure.

I was in a restaurant the other day, and two young kids (like 8 or 9) were singing along and head bobbing with the AC/DC which was playing -- my guess is that Iron Man 2 is partly to credit, though, maybe they got it from their parents.

At this point, any artists who are holding out from iTunes and the other stores have lost track of how most people are buying music.

I was in a restaurant the other day, and two young kids (like 8 or 9) were singing along and head bobbing with the AC/DC which was playing -- my guess is that Iron Man 2 is partly to credit, though, maybe they got it from their parents.

I think a lot if it has to do with the dearth of good music coming out today...actually since the 90's I'd say.

There is "some" good coming out, but what you see out for the mass public, which by definition most people see/hear, the landscape is pretty pathetic.

I think with Pink Floyd it was a valid argument. In the 70s they mostly played entire albums as cycles at their concerts, and as I've wrote several times here they didn't release singles except in the U.S.

I've found that with all of the music that I've considered buying on iTunes. Most things seem to be 20-50% cheaper (including delivery) if you buy the shiny plastic disc than if you get them from iTunes. I guess that's the price that you pay for immediacy. Or, I suppose if listen to bands that suck and only produce one track per album that's worth listening to then it's cheaper to buy a single track on iTunes than an entire album anywhere...

You have the right to create beautiful works of art that stir people's souls.

You have the right to keep your work private and only share it with those you want in the way you want.

You have the right to release your work to the public and try to profit commercially from it.

You DO NOT have the right to tell me how to experience your work. Once I have access to your album / song / painting / show, I can chop it up, listen to it backward, peer at it in a funhouse mirror, or

Check out Christopher Tin's Calling All Dawns. That CD sounds awesome listening to it all the way through. The songs have a thematic connection in the order that they're presented. Having said that, there's a couple tracks in there that are really good on their own. I haven't heard Mr. Tin complain that you can buy Baba Yetu on it's own.... (heck, it was in a video game as the theme song....)

The screen went berserkThought it was just a quirkBut then the printhead started to jerk

The repairman spokeLaughed like it was a jokeThey were full of Coke, my chips were soaked

Any other verses have been lost. Sorry about the awful chorus meter.

The "parallel interface" stuff is a reference to my unhappiness with the 1541's serial bus. Nowdays, serial buses are preferred. Funny how things work out. The liquids on keyboards thing is sort of a reference to one of the alleged features of the upcoming(?) Apple IIc (not that I ever actually saw one of those), which was supposedly highly resistant to such disasters.

Oh yeah, and AC/DC has been in the "digital marketplace" for at least two decades (whenever they started allowing the CDs to be published). And I'd like to stick Brian Johnson's "you're going to kill [commercial] music" comment right back in his face, since the very best way to kill commercial music is to tell paying customers "fuck off, we don't want your money."

When I have a show of my paintings I don't insist someone buy all of them or none of them. I want people to buy the one work that speaks directly to them. Some works never sell and they are taken out of their frames and put away for posterity. I care very deeply what happens to my art work but I certainly don't worry about how people view it. That they do view it is what matters to me.

— submitting that the group's albums were designed to be listened to from beginning to end.

I could easily see that argument for a Pink Floyd album, but AC/DC? Really?

I mean, seriously. This is from a fan. I've probably listened to the Back in Black album straight through cover to cover more than all but two or three people walking this earth, band members included. I'd agree that the song ordering on there is probably better than a random one would be (note: the "Title track" leads off side 2 rather than 1, which is interesting, but it works).

But would I ever sit down and argue with someone that its a travesty to listen to "Shake a Leg" without following it up immediately with "Rock and Roll Ain't Noise Pollution"? Hell no! Just listen to it and enjoy.

Really? You'd reorder the tracks on "Wish You Were" Here willy nilly? The album that is bookended with a continuation of the same song, and several of the tracks actually smothly transition into each other? You're cut up and reorder that?

That's it AC! I've had it. I've put up with your sillyness for over a decade with no complaint, but you are now officially dead to me.

Yeah, because you really can't appreciate the subtle nuances of "Sink the Pink" unless you hear it after "Danger" as originally intended [wikipedia.org] in 1985. Or, um, after "D.T." in 1986. [wikipedia.org] Right. Anyway...

I agree Gwar concerts are some of the most fun concerts one can go to.

I still remember going to the "When the shit hits the fans" tour, my contacts were dyed bright blue for around a month from all the stuff they sprayed the crowd with. My eyes were already very blue, this made them damn near glow.

GWAR rules live. I thought I was going to die. I really think they hate their fans. When they started playing about the front three rows where knocked over. I was picking up then boosting girls on top of the crowd, so they could crowdsurf to safety. Looked up and looked Oderous in the eyes. He could see people were in trouble. They grabbed a gear and rocked _even_ harder. It was cool.

Hmm, the place I saw them was an old movie theatre with the seats removed, I think it was called The Strand. It wasn't an intense mosh bit, was rather relaxed as far as mosh pits go, just a few idiots.

Slymentra hymen was fingering herself when I looked up, as a teen that was pretty cool.

AC/DC was never meant to be thoughtful metal. They were a fun hard rock band, and that's all they ever aimed for (and they were great at it). It's not like they were writing songs about politics or social issues. Megadeth those boys weren't, but they weren't trying to be either.

Were? They just finished a tour in 2011. My guess is they'll have another coming up shortly. Heavy metal, hard rock, etc. are very popular...probably not as popular as hip-hop or whatever monotoned crack many listen to, but they have their niche and their own concert venues which tend to sell out. Hell, even Deep Purple is still touring. Jon Lord retired in 2002 and then died just earlier this year. Ritchie Blackmore was replaced with Steve Morse sometime in the 1990's. The keyboardist is Don Airey who's pl

Not necessarily. They'll probably get a flood of purchases from people when they go live on itunes, people who wanted their music could still order CD's and rip them. And their primary compensation at this point might not be from music sales anyway.

This may have actually made them money, people who only wanted on track gave up and bought a CD and ripped it, as long as the amount they earned from that is more than they lost to piracy from people not wanting to buy a full album for one song they ended up ah

I imagine far more people who only wanted one track downloaded it illegally instead of buying it. I know I did. In fact a long time ago I added these guys to my "Metallica Response Plan" and downloaded their entire discography in FLAC whereupon I proceeded to give it away freely to every person I encountered who expressed the slightest bit of interest in it.
People like this slow the world down.

Your post was quite idiotic, too. Calling someone wrong doesn't make you sound smart. If you share a little more information about why they're wrong and maybe help them get to be right, that might make you sound smart.

3) I too find the idea of a great acdc song blasting out of some gen z tiny earphones right next to some gawdaful pop track by my chemical romance sick that I wouldn't want to see it on itunes either.

Thank you for informing us that only teens purchase and consume music in digital format, and that music in such a format can only be heard through crappy earphones. If you're too old and stubborn to appreciate the convenience and quality of digital music, that's fine, but do us all a favor and stop pretending that you know better than us or are on to something.

4) Itunes killed the record store. Which sucks.

Obviously the record store was an inferior business model. That's called progress.

Looking around the town I live in, there are no less than 5 record stores still around, all apparently doing quite well for themselves.

Personally, I think there will always be a market for the 'durable good' version of digital things, as it's a lot harder for Amazon (or whoever) to remove my CD collection from my house than it is to just close my account and deny me access.

Digital distribution is a fad, just hasn't hit the backlash point yet.

The era after Pink Floyd's two first albums they made the same argument about listening to the album as an entire piece. Because of this they didn't release singles (at least not in the UK. There are some late 60s early 70s singles in the U.S., but this their secondary market).

AC/DC always released singles. If they really cared about it they would of stopped like Pink Floyd did.

If they truly wanted people to buy the whole album, then wouldn't they simply make the tracks album only. I know google play and amazon mp3 allow a band to do this, so I assume iTunes has the same option?