I like Jimmy John. I just like to say it. Seriously, say it to yourself over and over. Now think about the SuperBowl commercial where dude licks the Doritos cheese off the fingers of the other dude. Now say over and over Jimmy John, again, but say it faster.

Well I doubt "Tits or GTFO" will catch on, so I'll vote for "Sammich."

“I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, he’s listed as Chu Chu. I think he’s worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name.” -Tim W.

Zed: You'll dress only in attire specially sanctioned by Raptors special services. You'll conform to the identity we give you, eat where we tell you, live where we tell you. From now on you'll have no identifying marks of any kind. You'll not stand out in any way. Your entire image is crafted to leave no lasting memory with anyone you encounter. You're a rumor, recognizable only as deja vu and dismissed just as quickly. You don't exist; you were never even born. Anonymity is your name. Silence your native tongue. You're no longer part of the System. You're above the System. Over it. Beyond it. We're "them." We're "they." We are the Toronto Raptors.

I'm not sure why undrafted players apply. Should I give you the names of every college senior, junior, etc. along with every international player who was not drafted and never played in the league? That would throw off your calculation big time but if we're going to go down this thought line it is required. End of the day the probability is very low for hitting the jackpot in the back end of the draft and digging back further and pulling additional tricks out of your hat doesn't change that.

Secondly, undrafted players MUST be included in the available pool. The word ‘undrafted’ is getting you mixed up. You must focus on the word ‘available’. The original point was that an NBA calibre player (similar to JJ’s level) would not be AVAILABLE at the Miami’s pick. Surely, everybody understands that an undrafted player was available to any GM who was smart enough to recognize the talent level and project into the future in the NBA. That's the whole essence of drafting. So the total pool MUST also include undrafted.

But honestly Apollo, I don’t get where you’re coming from. You applaud Joey for his solid statistical breakdown and scold me for not backing up my ‘general statements’. Yet, when the thorough statistical analysis is now made, it is shown that Joey is off by a factor of 10 in estimating the number of NBA caliber players available at the draft position. Why aren’t you applauding the new data and admitting the old was shoddy? Instead you call the real data “tricks”. Why? The data is the data.

The original statement was by BC that a player of James Johnson’s talent level will not be available by Miami’s pick. I’ve shown that EVERY year there is on average 10+ draftable players available who will make solid contributions in the NBA. At this point, it’s not even debatable. The data speaks for itself. BC is wrong.

I really like James Johnson, but he isn’t a home run either. More like a single + a stolen base, IMO.

The odds are not low. Miami's draft position sits at #27. Since 1990, 144 players been drafted at 27th or lower, who have played > 246 games in the NBA (i.e. at least 3 full seasons). They are sorted by win shares, see URL below.

It you make the cutoff at 'useful bench players or better', then somebody like Brian Scalabrine is the cutoff point. That reduces the number of NBA quality players to 123.

Now add 'undrafted players' to the pool of guys who should have been scouted better. I compiled my own list of 46 guys at the end of the post. Feel free to add.

So that makes 123 + 46 = 169 NBA quality players available at 27th draft position or lower. So, over the last 20 years there have been on average (169/20 = 8.45) 8 to 9 players NBA players available to be drafted at 27th or lower.

How do I like them apples? You're trying to tell me that Smush Parker and Tyrone Nesby and Quinton Ross are good NBA players. That's not even worth my time to tell you how ridiculous that is. This whole debate started over whether or not JJ will be better than what can be netted at 28ish. And you sorta helped, because I'd MUCH rather have JJ than most of the guys on that list.

I applaud the effort but I still disagree with your argument. Which is fine. I'm allowed.