For years I've woken up after 4-5 hours sleep. Have absolutely no issue getting to sleep, but then I ping awake typically 4-5am. Toss and turn for an hour or so then eventually give up and get up. Wouldn't mind so much if I felt refreshed but I can feel the tiredness seeping in slowly through the day. After waking at 4 I'm exhausted now 😔

Its not everyday but 3-4 a week. It totally ruins my day, can't concentrate at work, can't be bothered to exercise, want to eat junk food all day. Feel 100x better on the rare nights I sleep well, it's like im a different person.

ive researched this for months, tried every drug, supplement and routine going, nothing has helped. My latest thoughts are it is stress related. My job isn't that stressful, but I am quite sensitive to this stuff. I always sleep well Sunday nights but Thursday/ Friday is by far the worst.

Anyone ever suffered? for what its worth I sleep in a dark room, don't use screens in the hours before bed, only drink caffeine first thing, excercise daily, and eat a relatively healthy diet. Alcohol makes it much worse. hot baths, milk, lavender, and a whole host of supplements and legal and not so legal drugs have had no effect so far.

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Suffered from this for years. 4am and there I am wide awake. The following has helped me so may be of use:

stress comes from everywhere, it may not be your job. I also find it comes from excitement, so a new project I'm working on or something that really interests me. The issue is not stress per se but something that's getting the mind working and you can't switch it off

dont worry about it, it will make it worse. See it as normal. Plenty of people (thatcher, Churchill) got by on very little sleep

strategy one. Get a pillow speaker so you don't disturb others and then feel guilty which will make it worse. Get a kindle with a back light for the same reason

strategy two. Read your kindle, listen to the radio, listen to audio book. Different things work at different times. If it's working, you should feel sleepy in 5-10minutes. If not cycle to something else don't use a backlit screen for reading such as a tablet, it will make you more awake

strategy three. Counting sheep. Seriously. But you need to find the internal video that works for you. Me, it's kind of sliding up a grassy slope, kind of dalek like. Don't ask, I have not a clue but it can work

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Suffered from this for years. 4am and there I am wide awake. The following has helped me so may be of use:

stress comes from everywhere, it may not be your job. I also find it comes from excitement, so a new project I'm working on or something that really interests me. The issue is not stress per se but something that's getting the mind working and you can't switch it off

dont worry about it, it will make it worse. See it as normal. Plenty of people (thatcher, Churchill) got by on very little sleep

strategy one. Get a pillow speaker so you don't disturb others and then feel guilty which will make it worse. Get a kindle with a back light for the same reason

strategy two. Read your kindle, listen to the radio, listen to audio book. Different things work at different times. If it's working, you should feel sleepy in 5-10minutes. If not cycle to something else don't use a backlit screen for reading such as a tablet, it will make you more awake

strategy three. Counting sheep. Seriously. But you need to find the internal video that works for you. Me, it's kind of sliding up a grassy slope, kind of dalek like. Don't ask, I have not a clue but it can work

strategy four. If none of these work, go with the flow

See my extended strategy. A bit like a recipe.

See, when I am excited about things I usually struggle to get TO sleep. I don't understand why stress/whatever causes me to wake early, I was quite happily asleep, why does my stupid brain tell me I need to wake up and make me suffer all day??

re the kindle/speaker thing. A lot I have read says you should only use bed for sleep, and that if you can't sleep you should get up, so that's what I always do. Kinda makes sense.. may have a go at the reading thing though

seeing it as normal is ok, but I definitely don't feel normal on days where I haven't slept. Appreciate I can survive on a few hours sleep, but it's not very nice.

I do obsess over it but that's because I really want to find a solution 😭😴

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It is normal to wake up at about 3am. It was the Victorians that invented the concept of the 'sleeping all night'. Just do as they did in the pre-Victorian era -- read, write, have sex, then after 30mins to an hour go back to your (second) sleep.

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Suffered from this for years. 4am and there I am wide awake. The following has helped me so may be of use:

stress comes from everywhere, it may not be your job. I also find it comes from excitement, so a new project I'm working on or something that really interests me. The issue is not stress per se but something that's getting the mind working and you can't switch it off

dont worry about it, it will make it worse. See it as normal. Plenty of people (thatcher, Churchill) got by on very little sleep

strategy one. Get a pillow speaker so you don't disturb others and then feel guilty which will make it worse. Get a kindle with a back light for the same reason

strategy two. Read your kindle, listen to the radio, listen to audio book. Different things work at different times. If it's working, you should feel sleepy in 5-10minutes. If not cycle to something else don't use a backlit screen for reading such as a tablet, it will make you more awake

strategy three. Counting sheep. Seriously. But you need to find the internal video that works for you. Me, it's kind of sliding up a grassy slope, kind of dalek like. Don't ask, I have not a clue but it can work

strategy four. If none of these work, go with the flow

See my extended strategy. A bit like a recipe.

If I could have written this post, I would have - pretty much word for word what I would say as a fellow sufferer.

Couple of things I would add - meditation, never a bad time to do it, and since the object is to empty your mind, then by default it's going to remove the thing your mind is buzzing over.

Also, you say you're not stressed and that excitement normally helps you sleep. But in certain circumstances excitement is a stress, and though you might get off to sleep easily, it'll be hard to get back to it once you wake naturally, for example needing a pee, or:

Sleep Apnoea. Have you got a partner, as that's usually how you know you've got it. They get in a massive panic that you've died on them.

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If I could have written this post, I would have - pretty much word for word what I would say as a fellow sufferer.

Couple of things I would add - meditation, never a bad time to do it, and since the object is to empty your mind, then by default it's going to remove the thing your mind is buzzing over.

Also, you say you're not stressed and that excitement normally helps you sleep. But in certain circumstances excitement is a stress, and though you might get off to sleep easily, it'll be hard to get back to it once you wake naturally, for example needing a pee, or:

Sleep Apnoea. Have you got a partner, as that's usually how you know you've got it. They get in a massive panic that you've died on them.

Interesting that as I've stumbled on my approach through trial and error, your approach is similar. I've not tried meditation,it seems like too much effort to perfect the technique. If you have ant tips, I'll give it a go..

no, excitement is the same as stress, it stops me going back to sleep. As you say, it keeps the mind whirring.

My partner would probably be delighted, rather than panicked if I died on them.

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Interesting that as I've stumbled on my approach through trial and error, your approach is similar. I've not tried meditation,it seems like too much effort to perfect the technique. If you have ant tips, I'll give it a go..

no, excitement is the same as stress, it stops me going back to sleep. As you say, it keeps the mind whirring.

My partner would probably be delighted, rather than panicked if I died on them.

I have one tip - give it a go.

I don't know if it's even possible to perfect the technique of meditation - but even complete beginners can get some huge benefits out of it without being particularly practised. The key thing is not to fight the thoughts that come into your head, but to accept them and then gently move them aside, repeatedly if you have to. But if a thought comes that you just can't get rid of don't get annoyed. When I started I found that in 20 minutes of meditation I might get 30-60 seconds of complete emptiness. But that 30-60 seconds was so fantastic, I just kept on going. Now I only get 30-60 seconds of emptiness but that might happen multiple times during a meditation session.

One other interesting thing I often find is that the thing you thought was troubling you is actually just a symptom of something else. It's a great clarifier.

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I don't know if it's even possible to perfect the technique of meditation - but even complete beginners can get some huge benefits out of it without being particularly practised. The key thing is not to fight the thoughts that come into your head, but to accept them and then gently move them aside, repeatedly if you have to. But if a thought comes that you just can't get rid of don't get annoyed. When I started I found that in 20 minutes of meditation I might get 30-60 seconds of complete emptiness. But that 30-60 seconds was so fantastic, I just kept on going. Now I only get 30-60 seconds of emptiness but that might happen multiple times during a meditation session.

One other interesting thing I often find is that the thing you thought was troubling you is actually just a symptom of something else. It's a great clarifier.

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It is normal to wake up at about 3am. It was the Victorians that invented the concept of the 'sleeping all night'. Just do as they did in the pre-Victorian era -- read, write, have sex, then after 30mins to an hour go back to your (second) sleep.

Louis XIV basically is responsible for women having babies on their backs. He got off his jollies on watching women give birth. The traditional - i,e. normal way - meant that he could not get his jollies so he ordered that a new way of women giving birth was found so that he could watch and get off.

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Louis XIV basically is responsible for women having babies on their backs. He got off his jollies on watching women give birth. The traditional - i,e. normal way - meant that he could not get his jollies so he ordered that a new way of women giving birth was found so that he could watch and get off.

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Louis XIV basically is responsible for women having babies on their backs. He got off his jollies on watching women give birth. The traditional - i,e. normal way - meant that he could not get his jollies so he ordered that a new way of women giving birth was found so that he could watch and get off.