Monday, June 26, 2006

You have probably seen them- the nice looking, decent young women at the grocery store or at the movies holding hands with a “bad boy”, or thug. This is a huge phenomenon today, across all social groups. However, it is especially common with Black Women.

Just today, while at work, I spotted a gorgeous black woman, about 25 years old, butter pecan skin, conservative and professional looking, wearing a business suit. Her companion was a thug/ bad boy who fit the image perfectly. The two were a complete mismatch, and actually looked strange together. I am seeing this kind of “couple” on an almost daily basis.

This is largely an offshoot of Hip Hop culture. Once again, Hip Hop is influencing the wider culture. Everywhere you look, you see the thug image reinforced as the popular “in” thing. It has even been institutionalized- reinforced by mainstream institutions (The Grammys, by the Academy Awards, major movies, Politicians, the NAACP, professional sports, major magazines, etc etc etc). This image is glorified all throughout Pop culture today.

Just look at the minority female celebrities who have had thugs & rappers for boyfriends. Beyonce, Jennifer Lopez, actress Valeisha Butterfield, Janet Jackson, Vivica A. Fox, and the list goes on and on- all either have or had these men for boyfriends. Of course, upon seeing this, young women in the wider society want to emulate these so-called Stars. Beyonce even went as far as turning the “Thug” into an icon, giving it her official stamp of approval in the Destiny’s Child song “Soldier”- a tribute to, and anthem for the Bad Boy. No I am not a fan of her music…. I happened to hear the song on the radio one afternoon and I remember being disgusted by it. (this is largely why I pretty much stick to Public radio…urban commercial radio is brainless, useless and has, for all practical purposes, gone to crap). Her voice makes me cringe. But it’s basically a given that most of the young female R&B (Rhythm and Bulls--t) Stars of today have rappers, thugs, etc as boyfriends. And it’s not just the “in” thing. Thuggery has been embraced by the entire culture. If it were just a momentary trend, it would have played itself out a long time ago.

Now we have a situation where the “thug” has become the ideal mate for most young women… from teens to about age 30. At least that seems to be the case for women in urban communities…Black women in particular. This is why someone like myself is dateless. This issue has actually defined my relationship with Black women. The short version- I have a hard time finding one that I can even date, since I don’t fit their picture of “a man”. I avoid (like the plague) those who date these kinds of men, because I have nothing in common with these ladies. And it seems that “most“ young Black women are going for these kinds of guys (and many White, Latin and Asian women too who are a part of urban culture…can‘t exactly leave them out. But this is really prominent with Black women).

For some reason, a guy with a steady job, own place, good future, college grad, etc is just not attractive to many of these women. It has something to do with the Drama factor…. They must have negative excitement in their lives in order for life to be interesting. It’s as if they have to be entertained, even if it’s at their own expense and a risk to their well being.

But what is it about these mmmme….. (little boys) that makes women so attracted to them? I have read that it’s the fact that these guys are so strong and tough and they could protect a woman, yada yada, yada!!!! As if a decent guy could not do the same. That is some really ignorant primitive stuff… but I understand that this is largely the truth. Documentaries that I have seen support this idea…Science backs it up. Women ARE naturally attracted to meatheads. It’s a case of natural selection. But this kind of primitive response was built into women for survival during the era of Cave men… before the rise of civilized societies. We are supposed to be civilized now. These kinds of characteristics really should not apply today. How is the thug, bad boy, dirt bag, criminal boyfriend going to protect these women if he’s locked in prison, for the kinds of behaviors that women are attracted to????? How ironic. It seems to me that a man can better protect a woman using his brain… one example is making a family, keeping a job, staying OUT OF TROUBLE rather than staying in trouble….so that he can be there and support her and the children, if that is the case. He can protect her by staying away from areas or situations that might bring trouble.

Again, what is it about s--thead guys that attracts so much positive attention from women? Is it the idea that a gunfight could erupt at any moment? Is it the idea that she (and her children) could be caught in the crossfire of a gang shooting? Is it the idea that the house could be raided by police, putting her and the children in danger? Is it the idea that she could get involved in a high speed chase? Perhaps I should ask Jennifer Lopez…she was willing to go to jail to protect her man after a police chase. Is it the excitement that these kinds of things could occur, and this makes them feel like their no good men are men of importance? The idea is disturbing, but I really do believe that women get some kind of sick rush from this kind of nonsense.

I just feel that most of these women are ….to put it nicely… lost! I sometimes find it hard to have sympathy for women who repeatedly put themselves (& their kids) in bad situations, bad relationships, & so forth, but then they want society to care when something bad happens. Should we feel sorry for women when a guy cheats (when she knew what kind of guy it was to begin with)?

What about when there is violence? Now in cases like this, I do feel for innocent children, and even for the victims because they are often not smart enough or mentally strong enough to handle their situations, and therefore allow abuse to take place. I can recall countless cases where women were raped or murdered by their so called “boyfriends” in my area. One case in particular in the St. Louis area, involved a woman who was murdered (along with her 3 small children) by her live in thug boyfriend, who she was supporting. It turns out, he had recently been released from prison. We hear about these cases all the time now. At least a few times a week. On the East Coast (I believe Philadelphia) you had the young Black college student murdered by her thug boyfriend. I recall that case because she was the Black woman who the media was ignoring in favor of stories about missing white women (That could be an entirely different blog topic). But this is going on all over the country. It’s now an epidemic, showing no signs of slowing down.

It seems like the worst these guys are… the worst the criminal record, and with the more people they have killed or hurt, the more these women are attracted to them. Men in “Black Urban America” who have been shot are treated as heroes, while the guys who live quiet lives and go on to college are not seen in the same light or are not considered as valuable. “Street Cred” is much more important to people in these urban communities….or in the wider “Hip Hop” culture which has pretty much hijacked the larger society to a large degree. But women in particular consider the gunshot victim as somehow being sexy… because anyone living through gunshots must be tough and will be able to protect her. I think this biological natural selection thing has women all screwed up in the brain.

Are we to feel sorry when bad things happen to these women because of their own bad choices?And is there any chance that this phenomenon will let up anytime soon?What does this say about Black women in particular?

INTERVIEW WITH AUTHOR MONTE MADDUX

Author of the book "What's Wrong With Black Women".

Warning-FOR MATURE AUDIENCES

CONTROVERSIAL!!!

Disclaimer:Mirror on America does not endorse everything mentioned in the interview. But the man has some good points!!! lol

26 comments:

Niki
said...

um, have you ever tried looking for a girl at a college? i'm a black female and NONE of my friends are attracted to the "thug" guy, nor the drama that those types of men carry with them "baby mammas, no job, drugs." after spending $150k+ on an education, i'm not going to waste it partnering with someone who can't get it together. moreover, i've dated (and am dating) as do my friends a black man that has his life together. from a female POV, it seems to ME that guys like the "hoochie" girls. they want the girl that looks like the ghetto vixen, and then act surprised when those women are attracted to thugs. meanwhile, the educated black women are left with nothing. i find that most educated black women find it very hard to find a mate who is equally yoked. if you look statstically, there are more black men in jail than are in college... so black women must then choose between dating the ex-con or dating outside of their race. as i stated earlier, as for my friends and i - we've stuck it out. i can say personally that i found a good man. not that i have anything against interracial dating whatsoever, however, please don't give up on the black women. trust me, there are so many of us out there really hoping and praying to find an equally yoked partner.

I think the reason why women are attracted to thugs is because so many of the professional black men think that they are too good for a black woman (once they ARRIVE). Most are so busy trying to impress others that they look down upon the sista that have struggled on their behalf. They seem to be intimidate by a strong black woman cause she's not going to take a lot of stuff so they choose to be with a non-black woman. Most of our hard working men are already taken and nobody wants to be alone so what choice do we have? We certainly don't want a down-low bother or a guy brother just to have a brotha. Which leaves us with "the rest."

I am a middle aged professional and I'm in love with a man that society would call a thug because he has been out in the streets and he can get down with the best of them. But I know the inner man and I know that he is much more than that. As he grows older the streets are becoming a thing of the past and because he has a good woman he now knows that there is more to life then the street-life. I can respectfully call him a thug because I know what he is capable of but I can also call him a strong black man because I know what he is about. He has never put his hands on me other than to touch me intimately. And I think that any man that puts his hands on a female (professional or a thug)is a punk. I think that they feel so insecure about themselves and their manhood they feel big when they abuse the person that the claim to care about or love. But a REAL MAN don't have to put their hands on a woman to feel BIG. A Real Man can hold it down in the streets as well as in the workplace but especially in the home. I ,myself, prefer a strong black man that can handle his business but can hold it down like a thug.

We can blame society as a whole that things are they way they are. The definition of a thug is a vicious criminal or a lawless person. Well when you think about it, today's society is thuggish. The officials that run our country, people of power, big business men/women and some clergy are all out for themselves and their families. The law is being broken everyday because of the greed of man and most don't care who they hurt to get what they want (that is a vicious crime). The government is set up so that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer (that is a vicious crime). Big Businesses and executives steal money everyday (robbery just using a different type of weapon). Our troops are sent over to protect our country and innocent people are being injured and killed just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time (a crime and a shame). The system is set up to help our black men fail. I've seen that first hand. If we would stop looking down on people by thinking that we are better than somebody else maybe our so called thugs wouldn't have to make a stand or fill a stereotyical profile. I'm not condoning their actions because if it's wrong it's wrong I don't care who is doing it. A crime is a crime and a sin is a sin in God's eyes.

Most of our kids today immitate something or somebody that they've seen so if our males would step up to the plate and be fathers and our females would step up and be mothers that are lady's our kids would have somebody to look up to.

If we would stop labeling ourselves and others and try to understand and respect ourselves and each other we could all do better as a whole. WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT?!!

I feel this arthur is very angry. I feel every woman has her own reasons for the relationships she forms. You are not a woman, at least not in this life, so who are you to judge. I find thugs nice to be around at times. They are more real than you suitwearing fake men who feel a woman wants their $$$ etc. I am 43yrs old I look much younger, and a mortgage banker/business owner, and I still love THUGS!!! So get over yourself, maybe if u are more real, women will find u more attractive. Its something about the suits I think.

Ladies, here is a chronology of a non-thug guy relationship with a little knowledge to go with it. More times for than against, the involvement by ladies with a thuggish guy is infatuation rather than love.

It was the first day of classes my senior year in college. I walked into a philosophy class and looked around for a familiar face. As I quickly scanned the room, I noticed a couple of my friends, but I also noticed a beautiful sister with deep dark eyes, and an empty seat next to her.

Our eyes met briefly, and I noticed a sweet smile come across her face. That was all the invitation I needed. Valerie and I started dating shortly after that first day of class together, and we were married almost one year later to the day. That was 16 years ago.

Was this love at first sight? Are we part of the lucky few who met their "soul mate"? Did we fall in love when our eyes met?

Wanting to love and be loved is very normal and healthy. Many of us grow up watching movies, listening to songs and reading books where the heroes "fall" in love and live happily ever after. This is what we desire in our own lives. Not only do the movies, songs and books deceive us into believing that we should fall in love, but our own brains can fool us as well.

When someone we think is attractive notices us, our brains release chemicals that make us feel good. Many confuse these feelings with love. But is this really love? Many people believe it is love, and they continue to fall in and out of love as these feelings come and go.

An article titled "Love Is the Drug" claims that passionate or romantic love is like a drug in the human brain. "That's exactly what a team of scientists is discovering as they watch new love literally blaze its trail across the living brain. Using real-time MRI brain images of people in the initial throes of passion, they're finding that love originates far from the brain's logic center" (HealthDay News, June 10, 2005).

"In fact, love may vie for the same real estate in the brain as drug addiction. 'There's this general craving-and-desire system that's engaged, only in this case the desire isn't for money or a drug or power or freedom. The desire is for merging with another person,' explained co-researcher Arthur Aron, a professor of psychology at the State University of New York at Stony Brook" (ibid.).

Scientists seemingly confuse these feelings with love. Could we do the same?

Other studies have shown that when we meet someone we find attractive, the human brain's neurotransmitters, dopamine and serotonin, kick in.

"In the right proportions, dopamine creates intense energy, exhilaration, focused attention and motivation to win rewards" ("Love: The Chemical Reaction," National Geographic, February 2006). At the same time we develop a serotonin imbalance similar to people who have obsessive-compulsive disorder. The article goes on to say, "Love and mental illness may be difficult to tell apart."

This is how strong the emotions and feelings can be! Emotional chemistry, passionate love, romantic love or love sickness are all terms people use to describe the new and exciting feelings of attraction. But one word can sum it up— infatuation. A huge aspect of having a successful loving and lasting relationship is recognizing what infatuation is and recognizing that true love is not infatuation.

According to WordNet online dictionary, infatuation is a "foolish and usually extravagant passion or love or admiration; temporary love of an adolescent" or "an object of extravagant short-lived passion."

Notice that lasting love is not part of the definition. The emotions change, the feelings are lost over time and those susceptible to infatuation "fall out of love" and begin the search for those feelings, which they think constitute love, all over again.

I mentioned earlier the influence that movies, songs and books can have on our perception of love. At least one love song I know gets it right. On his album Nothin' but the Taillights, country artist Clint Black recorded a love song titled "Something That We Do." Here is one verse from this song:

I remember well the day we wed I can see that picture in my head Love isn't just those words we said It's something that we do There's no request too big or small We give ourselves, we give our all Love isn't someplace that we fall It's something that we do

I like this song because his emphasis isn't on falling in love, but recognizing that love is much more than a feeling. Love may very well start with feelings, but it must become something we do, not just something we feel or something we get.

In Greek, the language of the New Testament, there are three words for "love." One is eros, which refers to a romantic or sexual love. Another is philia, which means brotherly love or friendship. And the third is agape, a broader word used to describe God's outflowing love.

A good marriage will have all three kinds of love. Romance and romantic feelings are good and should be a part of a healthy marriage. But a relationship should not be based just on romantic feelings. Friendship and companionship with good communication are also part of a healthy marriage.

But true love goes beyond friendship. True love will have and demonstrate outflowing, caring love. This is the type of love that God expresses toward mankind. It is the kind of love that is listed as part of the fruit of His Spirit in Galatians 5:22.

This kind of love takes time to develop. It goes beyond feelings and emotions. This true love or outgoing concern means being willing to set aside our own desires in order to provide for the needs of the other and to give of ourselves even when the dopamine and serotonin have settled down and we are back to reality.

Again, it takes time for real love to grow. It doesn't happen at first sight. It doesn't happen only if or when we find a soul mate, and it is not something we fall into.

Notice what the apostle Paul says about true love in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7: "Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

This is outgoing love. Notice that this love does not seek its own. This means not focusing on self nor on what you can get out of a relationship, but on what you have to give and contribute to a relationship.

How true love develops

This type of love is best developed by first establishing a lasting relationship with God, and then by striving to be more like Him. Once you have a relationship with God, ask Him to be involved in your love life. Ask God to help you develop godly love that you can share in the right way at the right time with another human being. Focus on what you have to offer to someone else, instead of what you can get from a relationship.

The feelings are the easy part. The feelings will come and the feelings will go. Will you recognize them for what they are? Will you mistake emotions and feelings for true love? If you do, when the feelings wear off you'll fall out of love and have to start looking to fall in love again.

Valerie and I had those feelings for each other over 16 years ago, but we did not allow them to dictate our actions. We got to know each other, and with God's help we developed love for one another. We still have those feelings. We still have love for one another, and we still have God involved in our relationship.

Emotional chemistry may be the start of a lasting relationship, but if it's lasting love you want, it's important to recognize what infatuation is and what love is. They are not the same, even if your brain tells you they are.

LOL!!! I agree with the Author he thinks a lot like I do. I am a nice well rounded black male myself and it does seems for some reason women prefer a thug over a bright future lol. I think it has something to do with the whole opposites attracts theory. I feel personally that it comes down to the fact that males choose mates with logic and reason and women are more inclined to follow their hearts and make an emotional decision. The saying in most hoods goes all a thug has to offer is good sex and hard times and for most women that is enough. I agree you shouldn't feel back for a women that suffers violence, or infedility as a result of her poor choices. Our society is all about survival of the fittest so if they choose to live in danger co-signing for their boyfriends and staying in apartments for the rest of their life I am fine with it because it will keep houses affortable. How can you feel bad for someone that gets bitten playing with a snake that bites. You can't domesticate a caveman and for the women that try well I guess cops would be out of business if not for these guys. Once a women makes a choice in a mate based on what will be good for her future, her distant family, and her future kids then she'll make the right call if she choices what she wants right now then she'll get just that momentary satisfaction and a lifetime of regrets. Thugs are equivilant to a female prostitute until Black people realize that our race will continue to be the laughing stock of america.

I always find it interesting that many a 40 something black "female" will almost ALWAYS support ANY dysfunctional behavior by black people and specifically young sisters who dont know any better that they should be reaching out to. It's also interesting that more than a few of them will actually continue to "carry on" like their 20 something year old daughters up to an including chasing after thugs which is in itself a symptom of dysfunction. SO for the sister who made the comments and went on the attack of a SENSIBLE blog post here, if all you can say for YOURSELF at age 40 something is that YOU like thugs and then tell us all of your material possessions like that stuff even matters in context then that only speaks to you being: a)part of a problem affecting a black community at large which you probably dont even consider yourself part and b)if you have daughters in the demographic he speaks of they probably are following your example as fruit never falls far from the tree. c) a level of immaturity that you have avoided facing for perhaps far too long

Get a GRIP on a reality NOT based on magazine articles or what you "missed out on" 20 years ago...denial is the name of a river in Egypt and as a 40 something year old female you MIGHT think about what an example is of black WOMANHOOD which you could share or enlighten us with if you yourself are even aware instead of looking for the "mud" so you can jump in and be part of problem instead of solution. Read some black CULTURE books for a change instead of the toxic waste you probably feed your mind with currently and learn who YOU are so you wont look stupid going into your fifties still acting and thinking like an uneducated/MIS educated child or co-signing with pop culture like it's your very own. Our youth are screwed up in large part because of self consumed, self destructive dysfunctional brothers AND the like-in-kind sisters who loved/mated/procreated with them who are STILL in denial about their choices and it continues to perpetuate itself. Here are 2 GOOD ones for reference: Miseducation of the Negro-Carter G. Woodson and The Isis Papers -Frances Kress WelsingOh and BTW before you write off my post as angry...DAMM RIGHT I am angry as anyone who cares about a community's fading future SHOULD be instead of being self indulgent and believing that somehow it will all turn out alright as long as I "gotsummunee". I am equally if not moreso dissappointed in those old enuf to reach one teach one that would prefer to stay forever young like Peter Pan.

I could go on forever about this topic because it is such a sign of a failure in black America and it hurts to see it spread as it is. What I would like to state is that when black women do respond with comments such as the reader above did with the statement "I LOVE THUGS"; the one thing that never really happens afterwards is a response from them as to "Why?".

It always seems so easy to just say you want or deserve something, but never ease to defend or support it in any way. As a woman that says, "I LOVE THUGS", "why?" and see her response. You'll either get a weakly supported response along the lines of, "Well, they can be a gentleman when they need to and get street when they need to." or they won't give you a reponse at all, they will just ramble on something as to how they don't have to prove anything to you (the person asking why) and they will leave it at that.

I personally can tell you that for my entire life I haven't experienced or met another black man that really has "had to get street" if he kept his nose clean and just promoted his life in the right way. If you go to an all black club swinging a 40" platinum chain with gold teeth and displaying a bulldogish glare at anyone that looks in your direction, then maybe, yes, you'll have to get street, but in the end, where's the value-add in any of that type of life style?

I mean, live your life, promote your family, increase your value on earth as an individual rather than try to live a life of veracity and crime. I under stand thugs, but I'll never understand the women that chase them, in the end they always get what's coming to them.

In response to the blog on "Why Women are Attracted to Thugs" I offer a few explanations. In his comment he stated that he was a educated man with a steady job and completely drama free. Well, I'm a sista who has dated every type of man from a Lawyer to a Ex-Con and I can tell you from experience, a lot of men who exhibit those same qualities as the guy who posted his comments do not come drama free either. While they may have an education and are regularly employed it doesn't mean that they are interested in treating a woman any better than a say a "thug" type of man.

I dated a man once who was a Lawyer and in fact owned his own Law firm. He was very educated and extremely intelligent. Well this particular gentlemen and several of his friends who were basically cut from the same cloth, were very cocky and down right obnoxious to say the least. Reason being, they know that men like themselves are few and far between, therefore they have the right to be selective when it comes to dating women. If they don't want to date a women with a child, then they don't. If they don't want to date a woman with some extra meat on her bones, then they won't. And if they don't want a woman who makes a less than they do for fear that she may be a gold digger, than guess what they absolutely will not.

Men like this know that they are the cream of the crop and they know that in this day and time that makes them a hot commodity on the dating market. So rather than choose a nice woman to spend a lot of time with, they choose several women that they can spend little to no time with. Hit and quit, then their suddenly out of pocket. Why? Because they can do that. Most men like this value their careers way more than their women. She has to get in where she fits in and they fail to make a woman feel special or secure. Instead they feel as if the woman should go out their way to show them THEY are the special ones, and in the end they end up choosing a women of a different sort all together. Yes, you guessed it a white woman. Some one to hang on their every word and cast an image of success their way. Only in the end they find out that the white woman wants to same thing as a black woman or any other woman for that matter. And if they don't give it to them, then their out the door with half of their husbands net worth as a consolation prize.

Now for the brothers that have the regular jobs and support themsselves, you would think that women are just not up to giving them a chance in this day of the "Thug" as some might say. Absolutely not true. Men like this run just as much game and pull you into just as much drama as the thugs. Women do want nice decent men, but the truth is there are not a lot of them out there. People like you often get it twisted and want to lump men into two categories: Thugs and Decent Men. When in actuallity their are various different categories that men can be placed into but only the Thugs get the bad name. I know guys that are educated and hold down steady jobs but are the biggest whores this side of the planet. They have numerous baby mama's and treat all of them with disgust. Then their are the men who squander their paychecks on their 101 habits. Habits like smoking, drinking, gambling or other women. Then when its time to go on a date they never have any money and guess who gets stuck with the bill. Then their are those who shy away from commitment for fear of being stuck with "ONE WOMAN". (Lord help him) Then their are the men who make you feel that you are not perfect enough for their time and constantly put you down. Or the kind that just wants to sleep with you, and Lord forbid you ask him to help you do something. That's a sure way to get them to head for the hills in 2.2 seconds. Not to mention all of the down low brothers out there still playing the straight card in public.

The point I'm trying to make is that Thugs are so attractive to women because they haven't forgotten that women are beautiful no matter what shape, size or color, they are special. And while you have thugs that don't want to do anything with their lives not all thugs can be placed in this category. Some "thugs" as you call them have jobs and are educated or intelligent just like the so called "decent man" but the difference is you can see their flaws right off the bat. They put it all out their for you to see and make no apologies for it. Where as for the regular guys can some times be so uptight and stuck up that they attempt to hide all of this and instead make you believe that its something wrong with you. The problem lies with you (The woman) and never them. Women love men who are strong, confident and take charge. I don't necessarily need a man to get into a fight to defend my honor but its nice to know that he would if the situation called for it. This type of man doesn't necessarily have to be a thug but just a MAN, in every sense of the word, he's a MAN.

I'm madly in love with a "Thug" if you will. He has had dealings with the street life and has made a lot changes in his life that make me oh so very proud of him. But before that he has never made me feel insecure or bad about myself. He appreciates everything I do and never complains. He treats me like a queen. Something that these so called "decent guys" never have the time for. I wouldn't trade my guy for anything in the world and I know a lot of women feel that way. All any of us want is to love and be loved and if a "Thug" does it for you then so be it.

first of all, the thug thing is an epidemic that does need to stop. I just don't get it either. I am a black woman who wouldn't go anywhere near a thug...please. Give me a decent black man anyday. I'm sure they are out there, and I mean i would love a guy who takes proud of who he is and his people.I have a problem finding a black man who loves black women period. Thug or no thug. So i also look outside my race. But that's my thing and where I live. I'm sure there there must be proud black guys somewhere. Dude, if you can't find woman who doesn't like a thug, look in the right places. Look somewhere else. Nobody i know is interested in thugs except college white woman. But that's where i live. I'm sure you'll find her if you figure out where to look. beyonce and Jennifer lopez was from the street before they got famous. you know jenny from the block. look for girls who are interested in causes and helping people and charities like me and I'm sure you'll find her. Anybody can go to college these days so you can't stop there.

well, i'm a 31 year old black man and i am from the projects live in the projects til i was 18 and everything a thug or workin black man is is made by choice.there is no law saying if you grow up in the projects or poor and your black then you have to be a thug and be in the streets. that would be ridiculous, but it is portrayed that way in rap lyrics and movies and it's crazy how it shapes our black childrens perspective and they think thats how things are suppose to be. i have asked black woman of ages 18 and up to 50 why do they like thugs, some tell me cause the sex is better, which i think is stupid others tell me cause no one will mess with them and they will get thier props cause of his street credits, again stupid. but let me say this, i am a hard workin decent young black male. i cook, clean, wealthy, basically take care of myself in all aspects, and when i approach black woman workin stiffs and your typical black woman they all have the same answer i want a thug cause your too educated and i can cook so i'm not a man like a thug. can any one make any sense of that statement cause i can't . i'm not stuck up, don't think i'm better than anyone never will and a very giving person. to tell you the truth i have nothing against thugs they are black people ..people of my race and i still would help all of them in a minute, i think alot of people feel this way, but i think we all see it as our hearts would let us help them if they needed it (in some cases) but the thing that hurts us black people is that majority of these "THUGS" will not lift as finger to help us and alot of the times not even their own families..i think it's time for us black people to wake up and drop that silly thug idea and be your own person because if you look around there are not to many of us left as it is...

i'm not goign to hide like some of you black women, i'll tell you my name is mike, i'm 22 years old, and to tell you the truth, black women are stupid. it's not the thug thing i have so much of a problem with, it's about the small guy never getting a chance. look i ain't no corprate black guy or a thug, i'm the so called boring black guy that is too nice. i can't tell you how many times i have heard same excuse. i think it would be more acceptable if i wasn't atractive, but i always hear the same ole "oh you are too nice or you are too boring." i mean what the fuck, so you mean to tell me you want a man that beats you all the time. or better yet you want some dude who make 100,000 dollars a year who is an a-hole?. a regular guy like me gets nowhere and because i'm loyal to black women, i take the high and i mean high risk of being lonely for the rest of my natural life. now i know i'm get some you black women come back with "you are bitter, you can't handle a strong black women", or so crap like that. guess what i really believe you black women don't know what being strong is. i want a black women who has inner strengh, and just a nice personality. not some black women who is going to choose some corparate a-hole because he has the money or a thug because she want excitment in her life.

Alright, interesting topic with straight to the point info made by the author. Now here's my two cents into the matter of hand. The author, along with all of us good black men has every right to be mad and dissappointed in black women for having a narrow minded preference for thugs over educated brothas. I cannot get why so many of our women to this very day blatantly insist on dating these thugs despite all the negative stereotypes associated with them. I know the powerful influence of hip hop culture is the culprit behind black women choosing thugs, as it is glorified by the thug rappers themselves, but you would think that after a while, these black women would begin to loose interests in thugs since they've been dating them for so long that they no longer find anything interesting about them, which brings me to my next good point. Why do thse black women date thugs that have no unique and worthwhile talents, qualities whatsoever? These women date the same old boring, insecure about their manhood and personality that I need to be a thug to prove how much of a man I am to black woman, black men instead of dating an educated or decent brotha who's not afraid to be themselves and has some unique qualties and talents thats make him stand out from the rest of thugs. I'm a perfect example of this as I'm a 20year old educated black male, majoring in game design, and I can speak Japanese nearly fluent, can draw, and can do cartoon character impersonations, and that's what makes me a truly worthwhile and valuable partner for any black woman out there. I suggest that from now on, us black men and black women should start seeking out other good black men and black women that have unique qualities and personalities that stand out from the norm. I got tired of being attracted to sexy, hoochie sistas because of their looks and personalities and not because of any unique qualities they have, which is why I started seeking out black women that are unique and not like hoochies.

I'm 59 and have been married twice to Black Women. I say this, let them have the thugs.For you young educated and even tempered Black man, don't compromise your values. And don't limit yourselves to Black Women. There's something wrong with them.

You know, I grow weary of the bitching & the whining about black women wanting thugs. I am in college & where are all the educated black men you seem to say want black women? Sure they're educated, are they with Black women? No.

Lets talk about what the Black man likes. He loves that schghettoblonte girl who has slept around with every guy and prefers to have the "good girl" as a best friend or acquaintance. They much rather have the girls with long flowing hair than even try to speak to a natural sista. How many educated Black men do I see walking around with these types of women vs the women they know are no good and treat them like shit? And because Black women are often labeled "traitors to the race" if they date other men of color - some prefer to just avoid that issue.

Another to touch on, you said you saw that professional woman who "looked like a thug." Are you an 85 year old woman from below the Mason Dixon line? Do you realize how ignorant you sound? I know plenty of black men who "look like a thug" but hold higher gpa's than I do & are/have graduated from college with honors. So come again.

These types of arguments go both ways. Don't think that men have a leg up on women because we "don't think well enough of ourselves" to date someone other than a thug. Because yall men do it too. Like you said, its nature. So stop complaining & maybe if you got off your high horse you'd be able to find someone.

I find it pretty funny that, as one of the anonymous responses said, we try to lump black men into the decent & thug category. A "thug" can be dressed in a suit, with a Phd, and mansion. A decent guy may have cornrows, & his pant hanging off his ass. But black men are not limited to these images.

This is so funny not all black women like thugs. I'm a black male & the problem is black women never maturing until that thug or playa leaves them with all the kids. Good men have a problem with bragging about their accomplishments & most of the time women don't want to hear that. You know what they really want to hear, stuff like baby "how your day?, how are you doing?, I want you, I need you, I love you". Are you getting the picture? women have always been jealous, its part of Western Culture for women to get treated like Queens mentally & physically. I'm a commercial pilot & I notice how women act when I'm busy with my career, they get real bitchy but when I'm there for them mentally they go crazy for me. Somebody brought up the subject of DL men lol most of the time the DL men are the thugs (jail time rap in the butt thugs that usually have HIV).

Another problem we have fellas- women have all the power & they know it. Thats why its so easy for them to declare male friends (think about it have you ever heard any men saying hey baby lets be friends... hell no). This movement is strong because of the p---y era we're living in... The "p---y era" is when women have the power to choose who they want & make the rest "friends". What ya'll need to do is stop being friends with them because its bad for the male "Ego", its really true.

I know its hard out there with the media telling us men how to dress, think, & behave to get a woman. Also start getting vicious like these women. A woman is quick to call a man ugly, fat, short, tiny penis, but you don't hear men saying it. Its time to start telling the women how much their stuff stinks because nobody else ever did, daddy never did because she was daddy's little princess. Thats why you got these fat nasty or ugly looking women being picky when they know damn well they are in no position to be choosy. The same ones claiming that successful black men only date white women are usually the ones that are stank & they are trying to go off the fact they are black women & you are black man so we should be together.

The successful black man is not going out like that. He wants a nice body too (you know the whole package) most successful men don't want a monique (fat), they want Halle Berry, Jada Pickett, & Esther Baster. So its time to take the weave out & start working out because you know how intelligent black women are well I'm smart/independent thats all that matters.... Wrong! Some women need the Kanye workout plan & its the truth. Like I said earlier the successful man doesn't want to come home to a fat --- Monique with a bitchy attitude.

The conclusion is we have black girls dating thugs(black boys), successful black men ranting about how much he accomplished in life, & successful fat black women with crappy attitudes looking for compatible men.

I think you are asking the wrong question, why are guys thugs. Guys would not be thugs if young women did not overwhelmingly approve of them. I see this all the time too. Young attractive girls th roughing themselves at thugs. These girls often change there minds about thugs later in life, after having a kid or two and there looks have sagged. They realize the unemployable and unskilled thugs can't pay the bills. But by then it is too late. This whole phenomena is not so hard to understand. Women are attracted to these basic things --- Money, Power and Fame; this equals a guys status in his local society. A young guy needs to have high status to get laid. Getting laid is the most important thing to most young guys. Once a guy has sufficient quantities of these things women will fight to have sex with him. The whole thug thing gives these things to a young guy fast. No spending years in school and or working to perfect his skills in his chosen profession or trade.

#1 Thugs can fake the money thing. This in my opinion is the weakest link in the whole thug thing. Flashy clothes, tattoos and other paraphernalia are not real signs of wealth. Also thugs have no job skills. But young girls are easily fooled by this flashy BS. #2 Thugs have real power as they are feared by other guys. #3 Thugs have real local fame by the crimes they commit.

You see it is women who are the chief cause of thugs, if they did not respond so positively to them they would disappear.

Wow! I'm glad i came across this page because i was discussing this topic with a female last night. she was saying there are alot of lame men around now days. i asked her if she preferred a romantic/good guy or the thug type. she said the thug type which confused me. i then asked her why and she said because she can feel protected. i told her just because a guy isn't a thug doesn't mean that he can't protect you. thats part of being a good man. she then went on to say that she lets her hormones get in the way of what she really wants. and i told her thats why there are so many single mothers. i am the romantic type. i treat women like the queens they are. that's how i've always been but i have been single for a while because the females i run into are confused of what type of man they want. one female i was trying to get at chose a thug who sells drugs and has no goals over me. i am a 24 year old attractive black man making $45k a year. no kids, own car and place. females need to up their standards when choosing men or else the number of single mothers will increase because they want to have babies by the dopeboy who's behind bars.

Great Article!!I am considered Attractive by women more often than Not, but similarly Life has been NO picnic, because I am no thug. I am not a pushover hardly but I get passed over and told I am "nice" and women want guys who are A**holes. I pretended to be an a** for a minute, and it worked once...bur in not really an Ahole so when she realized that she didnt want to go out anymore. Money is no issue for me...im well educated....etc....but Im happy being alone rather than with some goofball woman who wants a man who doesnt respect her. I expect exactly what I give...which is respect and good treatment.

Well I use to hate the thugs. i really use to be a hater to them. getting all the women and all the attention. But the thugs do me a big favor. they take away the women I dont want or need out of my dating equation. Thanks thugs you do a service beyond what any single guy who is educated and with a decent job looking for a good woman needs. you eliminate the crazy ones for us :)

To all the fellas in this blog..don't worry about these females (not to be confused with women) choosing no good males. The pendulum will swing in your direction as you get older and more established. Trust my 36 yr. old behind on this. Its almost sad to watch former thug lovers look for good men. They have given their best years to the worst of men and expect good men to honor them. This is an insult to the intelligence of the men they clowned for so long. Men have feelings too. You reap what seed you sow...golden rule of life of ladies.

In a way they are providing a service. And these are women who I don't find myself interested in anyway. But there are a few halfway decent women who seem to like these guys.

As a Black male, I feel stuck... because there aren't many alternative options (even if you want an alternative)....unless you are wealthy or well off, which i'm not. I'm a broke, career graduate student... in debt up to my ears. I don't own a home or drive a Hummer or BMW.

"The two parties have combined against us to nullify our power by a ‘gentleman's agreement' of non-recognition, no matter how we vote ... May God write us down as asses if ever again we are found putting our trust in either the Republican or the Democratic Parties." -- W.E.B. DuBois (1922)