I think 4.0 is a good system. I feel like a lot of people dislike it because it has the D&D name and since it's newer they expect new to mean "better" which is an arbitrary opinion. I think if 4.0 was released under a different name and wasn't being compared to older versions of D&D constantly, there would be a lot more people that would like it.

And, if you really want to make a fighter that sneaks around, you can.

Also, 3.5 punished you for putting points into skills that didn't fit your class, so it was about as frowned upon as it is in 4.0, if not moreso. Really, if you want a fighter, make a fighter, if you want a rogue, make a rogue.Also also, if your character's background calls for him to be particularly skilled in one region of athletics, and slightly worse at another (for example: Great Climber, Bad Swimmer) and you really care that much about roleplay, tell your DM. DM's will never skip out on a chance to let someone make their character worse, and if they don't let you take a bonus to one skill by sacrificing another, they're a dick.

Also, B-chan, with the exception of healing surges (which makes no sense to me, they allow for a more diverse group, rather than having to force one of your buddies to play something he doesn't want to for it's healing abilities), your gripes sound like they're about a bad DM, not a bad game. A happy medium is something that is easily reached if the DM knows what he is doing, in both 3.5 and 4.0. I've played games of 3.5 that involved the group wading through groups of enemies because the DM didn't know what he was doing, and I've played games of 4.0 that are pretty damn great because the DM understood balancing.

I'm DMing a 3.5 campaign that is a) low magic (no healing staffs and the like, and healing potions aren't nearly as effective) and b) the group doesn't have really have a healer (only allowed 1 divine caster in the group, and he's an ex-evil cleric. So he casts injure spontaniously instead of heal). It's quite easy to balance, and forces the group to think more strategically, as they know that most damage they take, they're gonna have to live with until the end of the mission. Most people in the group agree that it makes the game much more exciting.

As for cross-class skills and such, there are feats in 3.5 that allow you to treat cross-class skills like class skills. Plus I free-form a lot of class stuff. If someone wants to play a fighter, but sacrafice a few of their bonus feats for sneak attack damage, that's fine with me. I also allow people to spend XP to learn abilities above and beyond what they'd normally have access to.

Plus I free-form a lot of class stuff. If someone wants to play a fighter, but sacrifice a few of their bonus feats for sneak attack damage, that's fine with me. I also allow people to spend XP to learn abilities above and beyond what they'd normally have access to.

Eh, that's really just DM discretion, I think that just makes it really really easy to break the game or come out with a ridiculously OP character.

Edit: Now that I think about it, that's not really true as long as you make a legit cost for the benefit.

Eh, that's really just DM discretion, I think that just makes it really really easy to break the game or come out with a ridiculously OP character.

Edit: Now that I think about it, that's not really true as long as you make a legit cost for the benefit.

the XP cost depends on the ability. some abilities I don't make the cost very high....others it's pretty crazy. One of my players wanted to pick up the Mountebank prestige class's Sideslip ability...I let her...for 2k XP. she took it, even though she only gets to use it once per day, and in order to get more uses she has to pay an additional 1.5k per additional usage, or pick up the actual prestige class (and even if she does that, she'd have to wait until the prestige class would allow her more then 1/day. It doesn't stack).

Yeah, like I'm in 3 games right now. Playing in 2 and Dming one. The one group im in isn't too fun cause some of the players are tards and douchebags and I got turned into a rat. The other two are great cause its a great atmosphere, we all like playing and its just really fun.

Also the one I'm Dming has turned into Scooby-Doo. The Druid has a wolf he named Scooby and wagon he named the Mystery Machine, and he killed an orc and went; "Okay now to see who it really is, I rip off his face""You rip off it's face""GASP! It's old man Jenkins, the amusment park owner!"We all laughed our asses off.

Or the Sorcerer who's Charisma is 18, the group walked into the tavern in his home town and this is what happened;"You walk in and 4 girls walk up to you. The first 3 slap you, and the 4th one kisses you then slaps you".

Then him and the Ranger had a drinking contest to see if he could join the group, and the Sorcerer destroyed him. It was all really awesome.

Logged

All of time and space, anywhere and everywhere, any star that ever was. Where do you want to start?

The group for the campaign I DM is pretty awesome. There's a Warforge ranger-varient that's 200 years old, a Warblade that's 18, a rogue that's 20, a 1/2 vamp swashbuckler that's 68, but looks and acts like she's 26, a 1/2 elf ranger, and a human ex-cleric of Loki. Their interactions can be awesome.