Of course. My hope is that the vast majority of reasonable people out there will see this for what it is, and that as a result, talk radio hosts and politicians will be forced to tone down the vitriol.

I think this guy definitely seems mentally ill, so I don't know if he was even capable of having any real and/or intellectual political motivations. But the truth remains that it has gotten out of hand in this country, so much so that who knows who could have those and take them to a violent extreme on a daily basis. She was targeted and threatened over her vote for health care. Look at how some people behaved during that time.

It won't change though, when the story fades it will go back to business as usual. But it sure is a damn shame that that beautiful little girl never will again, nor will any of the other people who died. Looking at that picture of her breaks my heart.

They're saying that because his favorite books were Mein Kampf, and the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx. Sounds like he was just really into political revolution. He really reminds me of Timothy McVeigh, very anti-government. (His myspace page said that the government uses mind-control on the population ) I watched some of his bizzare shit on youtube as well, it was just really weird. No way this guy was sane.

If I had to allege some common theme to his "favorite books"--at least, those with clear ideological content; several of the titles were merely children's fiction classics--I think my observation would be that nearly all of them tend to be popular with people obsessed with conspiracy theories (please note, I'm not suggesting that all people interested in those particular titles fit that description, or are unbalanced, etc.). I don't think that observation points either right or left, but given the context, perhaps it's a reminder that politicans and pundits of whichever party who habitually frame their opponents in conspiracy-theory terms should always be viewed with great caution and skepticism--even when you agree with many of their policy stances--because by definition one can't engage in the basic acts of democracy, working together and building consensus, with someone you literally believe is out to destroy you.

As deep suggested though, a YouTube profile hardly counts as a manifesto nor a declaration of much of anything, so best not to read too much into it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliEnvy

While this incident is so incredibly sad on many levels but especially for the victims and families, I suspect it may tame the political vitriol across the board to some extent. Public figures who try to "motivate" by inciting hate and violence will be under the gun () no matter what the mental state and motivations of the shooter are revealed to be.

Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...

Posts: 19,807

Local Time: 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlsAloudFan

This is just my personal stance, but I find guns and automatic weapons completely terrifying, full stop. They are scary as shit. God, I can't even get into it and sound coherent but, fuck. I hate guns. So frightening.

Why and how was this psycho given a gun? We need to cut down on that shit. In my very humble opinion, gun violence is just about the single worst thing in the United States of America. It's a whole culture, it's scary beyond belief, it kills people, etc. etc. etc. Ugh. Fuck guns.

Fuck guns.

I'm sure I sound naive and lame and all of that, but I don't care. Let's stop selling guns to U.S. citizens. And the guns that are already out there, on the street, and in homes, let's just fucking get rid of all of them. Let's all eat pizza and laugh together and enjoy eachother's company and enjoy what we have and maybe listen to a Taylor Swift song or two.

Wow, so i'm sounding like a complete idiot right now, but I just heard about this news story about 30 minutes ago, read through this entire thread, and it has hit me like a brick. I've ceased watching playoff football and am trying to get all of the facts together on this.

I really, really, really, fucking wish that this psycopath had not been allowed to purchase a gun. I wish guns were never even fucking invented.

I just heard about this a few moments ago, myself. I am truly stunned. Those poor victims, that little girl, for Christ's sake...I just...I can't imagine...

My thoughts go out to Rep. Giffords, I hope she can make a full recovery from her injuries. And my deepest sympathies and condolences to all who lost loved ones to this asshole. I hope they throw the book at him and he gets the most severe punishment imaginable. I read those bits about the signs ahead of time with this guy and am floored that that wasn't motivation enough to do something about him then. What the hell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem

Assuming this was politically motivated (and honestly, when this stuff happens, I assume there's some level of mental illness involved as well), I'd like to see people in high places refer to this sort of thing as what it is: terrorism.

The guy who shoots a politician he disagrees with. The guy who flies a plane into an IRS building. The guy sending mail bombs to Maryland government. Terrorists.

They get dismissed as lone crazies, but I'd say they're pretty easily spurred on by the rhetoric being spewed by talking heads and politicians.

To paraphrase a certain singer from a Bullet the Blue Sky rant - Hey, middle eastern terrorists, we don't need your help. America's making war upon itself.

(Again, this is assuming it was politically motivated.)

I wholeheartedly agree with this as well. Given that it was a political rally and the guy seemed awfully anti-government, I would find it hard to believe his actions had no political motivations whatsoever. But yes, if his shooting was political in nature, he is definitely a terrorist and should be treated as such. The terrorists on 9/11, that's precisely what they wanted: for America to crumble in on itself. Sadly, it looks like they're succeeding in that goal. I definitely agree that the blame ultimately lies with the person who committed the crime, but let's not kid ourselves and deny the fact that some of the overly dramatic, vitriolic, anger-fueled speech from those in power is helping add to this insanity. EVERYBODY, I don't care what side you fall on politically, needs to desperately take it down a few hundred notches. EVERYBODY. It's not worth it.

could you provide some examples of the "extreme left" using violent rhetoric in their language in the way that the former nominee for VP form the GOP does?

Off the top of my head...

Barack Obama saying something along the lines of "If they bring a knife, you bring a gun"... The beating of Kenneth Gladney by SEIU members.... A Democrat challenging GOP Congressman JD Hayworth in 2006 using a campaign ad in which Hayworth is featured in the crosshairs of a rifle... Multiple guests on MSNBC in the past few months making calls for violent revolutions... The fact that Olbermann references "the worst people in the world" (99.9% of them being conservatives, and largely prominent people like politicians and media figures)... The fact that Olby begins said segment with "get out your pitchforks and torches".... DailyKos kook Markos Moulitsas naming his book "American Taliban"... NPR's Nina Totenberg wishing AIDS on Jesse Helms... And if we're saying that the word "target" is off limits now, I can cite countless press releases and postings from Media Matters, Kos, DCCC, etc, referencing politicians that are "targets" and have "bullseyes" on them. I haven't even brought up the violent threats and attacks made against President Bush over the past decade, and I hope you won't make me. Should I start, I could go on for days.

I don't want to drag this discussion back into the trenches, but it needs to be emphasized that this happens on both sides. Trying to emphatically state which party traffics in that more is pointless and impossible to know, and I echo the sentiments that a tragedy like this should simply not happen in America, as if that even needs to be said.

A friend of mine reminded me today of a quotation from Mr.Rogers: "Look for the heroes in the story; the helpers. " The young man who probably saved Giffords' life by using his emergency response training is one of them. I'm sure there were others.

And kudos to Sheriff Dupnik for not backing down, reiterating tonight what he said last night, that the violent imagery and rhetoric from members of the media, while maybe not directly responsible for this, contributed to the climate that led to this event.

He liked Hitler. Hitler was a totalitarian. So why am I being told he's left wing for reading Hitler?

Maybe you're being rhetorical...but I'd like to answer.

Right Libertarians are basically seen as liberal to Right Authoritarians who don't understand the difference between Right/Left and how it relates to Authoritarian/Libertarian. "liberal" is selectively used, depending on the issue. Everyone can remember Ron Paul was "liberal" on the war in '08 according to the rest of the party.

Those paranoid militia types could potentially be Left or Right, but they will always be Libertarians who don't trust Govt.

Both Right and Left Libertarians, in a nutshell, are closer to Anarchy on the extreme. Right Authoritarians are closer to the Totalitarian on the extreme.

I think the guy was just clueless. This is common with that 'ilk'. They don't want the Govt to fuck with them, but they wouldn't mind seeing their Govt or even a new Govt push certain people around. Just not them.

But to answer the question...to deflect attention away - politically - or perhaps just sheer Glen-Beck-like-ignorance...into saying that the guy was on the Left, because he doesn't fit the typical 'Republican' Authoritarian way. To sum, the guy was likely naturally attracted to Right wing-Hitler's social politics and fucked pup the role of Govt in his own mind...and the people saying that Hitler was Left wing don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.