Is every child a hypocrit then? People call something weird because they don't understand it. It matters a great deal how much information Jonas has, because information is a cornerstone of understanding. Without enough information and only one cultural point of view you could call your neighbour weird.

Jonas is not from a backwater third world country somewhere. He may not have been completely exposed to other cultures, but he KNOWS that they exist. I don't care how sheltered he was, he can still adjust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

I associate the word "weird" with the context in which it was given. To me the word is neither positive or negative, it can take either shape, or neither, the word itself is neutral, a synonym is strange, but weird is more popular, strange and weird are both words tied to your upbringing and your opinion.
Culture plays a part in how you as a person use weird.

:rolleyes He was using the word in a negative context. "I thought that was so weird!" (Not a direct quote, but it basically sums up what he was trying to say).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

Ignorance, not hypocracy. Also, calling something weird isn't the same as calling something stupid, or redundant, or lame. If you call Jonas a hypocrit for using the word weird and at the same time defending his culture from people who throw a barrage of other words at it, mostly negative, than you don't really understand the what a hypocrit is.

Actually, I don't remember the city kids saying ANYTHING worse than "weird" about the Amish culture...which is the same thing Jonas said about the other cultures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

Jonas would be one if he called the Hindu faith and followers stupid freaks, and defended his own faith and culture from the city-kids calling the Amish stupid freaks.

The only difference between that scenario and the one we are talking about is a different word.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

Before your remark, the most prominent topic was Jonas' desire to study. He expresses the wish to study quite often, it's an integral part of who he is.

We aren't talking about Jonas' desire to study, darling. We are talking about his hypocrisy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

An example, again you take things too literal. You call someone a hypocrit, based on your own cultural upbringing. Whatever judgement you pass on someone else is born from your upbringing, your own personal culture.
You call someone a hypocrit because he says that another culture is weird, while defending his own culture, that's mighty judgemental, and not at all tolerant.

How is it not tolerant? How is it judgemental? All I'm doing is comparing too sound bites, in one he calls a culture weird. In another he is angry because others are calling HIS culture weird.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

You think you learn only facts and figures in school?

I don't see what point you are trying to make here. He is obviously not learning about other cultures, if that's what you mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

I'm not biased. I'm seeing the world through a different perspective than you. In my eyes there are differences between the groups and the individuals. I do not generalize in the same way you do. I acknowledge the difference between me and Jonas and the difference between culture.

When did I generalize? Please tell me one time where I said "All of the Amish" and not "Jonas".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

Me calling Jonas a hypocrit is like me calling a child a hypocrit. A child, like Jonas, lacks information, the information that I've gained through my years in school and being around other cultures.

If you told me that you worshipped ants and believed that one day the ant god would come and wreak havoc on the world, I wouldn't call you weird. I have no information on your religion, but still, I wouldn't call you weird.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

I see him as an alien, something different from me, his entire background is different from me. If Jonas would have had the same upbringing as I received, in the same culture, then I would call him a hypocrit. But as it stands now, the boy is on the same level as a fourteen-year-old, raised in a very closed community, with a very dominant religious influence.

The boy is not an idiot. I am 100% he has studied (or at least heard about) other cultures in school. It has nothing to do with him being sheltered. I mean you say that you see him as an alien, but he really isn't. The Amish know that there are other communites and religions out there. It's not like they live completely in seclusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

He is ignorant of the world around him, but he's willing to learn, he's willing to see things from a different perspective, because he never has had to look at things from a different perspective, he's spent his entire life in one room, and now he's discovering the rest of the house, for chrissakes, give the kid some room to breathe, he doesn't know any better, but at least he's willing to learn, which is more than I can say about the others in that house.

Okay, how do YOU know that he's willing to look at things from a different perspective? All I am judging by is what I see on my TV screen, and I have seen a hypocrite.

Just out of curiosity, who are the "others in that house" that you are referring to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

And yours did?

It made more sense than yours.

Saying that Jonas wasn't using weird in a negative way? :rolleyes That's a delusion.

09-05-2004, 10:22 PM

Grok

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairon

Is every child a hypocrit then? People call something weird because they don't understand it. It matters a great deal how much information Jonas has, because information is a cornerstone of understanding. Without enough information and only one cultural point of view you could call your neighbour weird. I associate the word "weird" with the context in which it was given. To me the word is neither positive or negative, it can take either shape, or neither, the word itself is neutral, a synonym is strange, but weird is more popular, strange and weird are both words tied to your upbringing and your opinion.

Ignorance, not hypocracy. Also, calling something weird isn't the same as calling something stupid, or redundant, or lame. If you call Jonas a hypocrit for using the word weird and at the same time defending his culture from people who throw a barrage of other words at it, mostly negative, than you don't really understand the what a hypocrit is. Jonas would be one if he called the Hindu faith and followers stupid freaks, and defended his own faith and culture from the city-kids calling the Amish stupid freaks.

The experience is what Jonas lacks, and I'm not going to accuse him of being ignorant when he clearly wants to learn and develop himself. I'm not going to call him a hypocrite because the guy isn't even in a position to be a hypocrite. You judge him as if he's one of us, but he isn't. I see him as an alien, something different from me, his entire background is different from me. If Jonas would have had the same upbringing as I received, in the same culture, then I would call him a hypocrit. But as it stands now, the boy is on the same level as a fourteen-year-old, raised in a very closed community, with a very dominant religious influence.

He is ignorant of the world around him, but he's willing to learn, he's willing to see things from a different perspective, because he never has had to look at things from a different perspective, he's spent his entire life in one room, and now he's discovering the rest of the house, for chrissakes, give the kid some room to breathe, he doesn't know any better, but at least he's willing to learn, which is more than I can say about the others in that house.

Well said, Carion. Your points were not lost on me. "Weird" is not a derogatory term. You mentioned a couple synonyms, but here's a few more: unearthly, uncanny, fantastic, bizarre, eerie, mysterious, odd, peculiar. The word is widely misused as it is meant to refer to things involving the supernatural. I agree too that Jonas didn't mean to dismiss or put down the Indian culture. He was just making an observation. Besides, I judge a person more by actions than by words. Jonas and the other Amish kids have shown nothing but respect for other cultures and have shown an innate curiosity about other religions as well. Look at how they ask questions about the Hare Krishna, Islam, Hinduism, and the Chinese medicines - just to name a few examples. They obviously don't know about other cultures and religions or else they wouldn't be asking the questions in the first place. I find it interesting, though not surprising, they are consistently trying to draw parallels to their Amish upbringing, which is their only frame of reference. I don't believe there is a malicious intent to any of their comments. Their observations arguably may be ignorant at times, but it comes from naiveté, not bigotry. The fact is most Amish are very isolated. There is very little interaction between them and us, certainly not enough to be all-knowing about the outside world. I live in Ohio, the state that has more Amish than any other, and I would have to go out of my way to cross paths with them. I can't even recall the last time I saw an Amish person. Carion, I agree with your take on the hypocrisy issue too. Jonas hasn't done a thing to warrant such a harsh label. It doesn't even remotely apply to him.

09-05-2004, 11:03 PM

bostonboi

Is Jonas ready for his coming-out party?

After watching this show from the start, I have to ask the question: Is Jonas a closet case? I mean this guy takes every opportunity to take his shirt off, couldn't keep his eyes off the token gay housemate when his boyfriend showed up for a visit (yet managed to distance himself quite nicely), appears to have a bit of a crush on Kevan (his tutor), is as chummy with the females as said token gay housemate, and looks up to Randy (literally) like he was checking out one of the women. Like others here, I don't think Jonas will go back to Amish-land, because I think he is looking for an opportunity to get out of that closet (and what better place than L.A.). He's simply 2Q2BSTR8. Be curious to see where he lands in five years. :)

09-05-2004, 11:48 PM

galliard

Hmmm...Sorry, I don't really see it, but I guess anything is possible.

09-06-2004, 09:19 AM

toque

Don't see it either. Going :goldfish ing, I think. :rolleyes

I also didn't hear Jonas say he thought any of the mid-east cultures were "weird". Some of the other Amish used the word "different" this past episode but not "weird". Though I can recall Ruth having used it in the past.
Jonas seems ok to me.

09-16-2004, 07:40 PM

Glitternerfball

I've had such a crush on this kid since the beginning, and though I was leaning toward Mose recently, Jonas totally won me over with his 'milking' exchange with Ariel. He's just a smart kid. I loved how he kept his temper and explained haw a fanatic instills fear and misunderstanding through highlighting only the bad parts of a situation, he really handled himself well. HE's such a cutie :blush

09-16-2004, 07:42 PM

Kai5925

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glitternerfball

I've had such a crush on this kid since the beginning, and though I was leaning toward Mose recently, Jonas totally won me over with his 'milking' exchange with Ariel. He's just a smart kid. I loved how he kept his temper and explained haw a fanatic instills fear and misunderstanding through highlighting only the bad parts of a situation, he really handled himself well. HE's such a cutie :blush

You poor girl.

09-17-2004, 12:09 AM

JonasIsTheMan

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm a fan of this guy. To me he seems the one who don't really care what other people think of him and he's gonna voice his opinion regardless. And he does that in a well mannered way (not like most ppl who just blurt random crap out as if they were barking). I don't think he's ever done anything to discriminate or put down another culture, he may have called it "weird" or "different" but did not questioned anyones believes and being totally against. :yay

I thought it was awesome seeing him dress in Indian clothing. He said it was "different" but he loved it, said it was comfortable and unique. Also his drive to gain an education is something that is respectable. He wants to make himself a better man and help ppl around him and not be bound to his 8th grade education and his contracting work. Either way I don't have a problem with Jonas and nothings really come up to make me even question the fact that he's a good guy. He sticks up for ppl (ex. Ruth, Kevan,) and fights for what he believes in..nothing wrong with that at all... :)

09-30-2004, 11:45 PM

Truthseeker

Jonas was really great. I wouldn't mind having him for a friend. At least there would be loyalty and honor, and that is what one looks for in a friend. Those city kids didn't really appreciate him like they should have. We all need to be more like Jonas. Go get em Jonas.