I feel like fans create a worse stigma for this stuff than the actually games, products or bonus material itself....

Very true. The fans just need to stop deluding themselves and trying to excuse themselves for shit like this and just tell it like it is. I like sex, and I like sexy women. If I get branded as a pervert because society deems me so, hey, I'm not about to lie about my preferences - if I'm a pervert, I'm a pervert. Given, my preferences do not lean towards anime characters that look like 6-year-olds, but that's what happens. I can even understand the rationale behind "just because I look at anime drawings of little girls, doesn't mean I'm a real life pedophile." No, but it sure as hell makes you a fictional pedophile. I've had some asshole call me a 'prude' because of it; seriously, I'm far and away the last thing to come into anyone's mind when they think 'prude.' It'd be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic.[/quote]

The problem isn't about liking sex or sexy women, on the contrary; enjoying sex is very healthy and is just human nature. There should be no moral panic over the outright depiction of sex in media. The problem with these types of games though and the whole Moe/Otaku subculture of Japan is the fact that its misogynistic and objectifies women to the point where they're nothing but sex slaves destined to serve any and every man. Now I understand that this is a cultural thing, but before anyone calls me out on being racist hear me out. Yes, it's a wide known fact that for centuries Japan and all of Asia really has been extremely patriarchal and misogynistic, but that doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean we have to condone it simply because of "cultural differences."

In the Middle East, they're still forcing women to cover themselves up and be ashamed of their bodies, and if a woman isn't a virgin or cheats on her husband then she can get stoned! Should we leave that alone because "its a different culture?" No we shouldn't! Whenever there's outright oppression of a group based on who and what they are we have to stand against it and try to change it for the better.

Now granted, Japan is ahead of the West in numerous other areas but women's rights is not one of them, they've actually always been behind in the West on that front. It's slowly changing, but the whole Moe/Lolicon craze is a manifestation of the centuries old, deep rooted sexism that is still very much prevalent in Japan and all of Asia. Hell, Asia is the leading continent in little girl prostitution and sex trafficking! In India and China, girls as young as 9 are being sold off as brides with no choice in the matter, as if they're nothing but a piece of property! With these sorts of things going on, suddenly the whole Otaku subculture doesn't seem so "harmless" anymore.

This is why its so creepy to us Westerners, because; say what you will about us but we've come a long way on women's rights issues and have generally always been very forward thinking on that, and quite frankly that's the right way to be! I think probably the best way to let Japan and all of the Eastern world know that we're not happy about their depiction of women is to boycott sexist products like this. Maybe that'll get them to finally wake up and realize that their backwards views on women may have been okay in the 12th century, but it doesn't fly in the 21st century!

In India and China, girls as young as 9 are being sold off as brides with no choice in the matter, as if they're nothing but a piece of property! With these sorts of things going on, suddenly the whole Otaku subculture doesn't seem so "harmless" anymore.

I mostly pop in occasionally to give my two cents on certain controversial things, so if you disagree then send a PM, because I generally don't check for replies in threads in case I feel like replying and then things get heated/derailed.

I think the greater JRPG community just needs to lighten up. People make much more of these things than they are worth.

Sex sells, thats it. Some people might enjoy the fantasy of these highly exaggerated designs and thats fine. No real people are harmed when somebody just enjoys artwork.

Fantasy is what it is- Why does the porn industry do so well? Because it basically depicts stuff that is fantasy- 95% of real women don't enjoy or tolerate what goes down in the average scene- the real thing is much more tame, and two sided, not the 100% deviant male-centric fantasy thats typically displayed in a porn scene.

Should everyone who has ever watched and enjoyed porn be locked up? No, because you'd be locking up 90% of the population, and since its all being enjoyed indoors in the privacy of homes, and no ones being harmed. (and the performers are both well paid and willing)

And back to the games, the funniest part, is these Agarest War games are so tame, its insane. You have a 60+ hour rpg, and 95% of the time its a super-serious dialogue heavy strategy rpg about war and variouis other conflicts and intrigue, and then once every 10-15 hours for about 5 minutes you court a female party member and get a wedding scene where you get a still of your spouse in a wedding dress and another still of her in a mild "come hither" pose where everything is still covered up suggesting you consumate the marriage, and then the quest continues 20 years later with the new couples child....big deal.

So basically, while the marketing is quite saucy (afterall, sex sells, and they do need to sell the game, and this strategy undoubtedly pushes more copies) , the game itself probably doesn't even have 1/5 of the sex appeal you would get in the average episode of 'Glee' which ironically does feature sexually charged underaged teen in sexual situations, as opposed to Agarest War's adult characters that barely even go there, other than a few innuendos and attractive character designs.

This is why its so creepy to us Westerners, because; say what you will about us but we've come a long way on women's rights issues and have generally always been very forward thinking on that, and quite frankly that's the right way to be! I think probably the best way to let Japan and all of the Eastern world know that we're not happy about their depiction of women is to boycott sexist products like this. Maybe that'll get them to finally wake up and realize that their backwards views on women may have been okay in the 12th century, but it doesn't fly in the 21st century!

Personally I find this game shite, but you do know westerners not buying it won't be seen as a boycott in japan, they'll likely write it off as "they just want more console fpses".

Oh and either tone down or remove your sig its giving me seizure.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 08:03:35 PM by Logick »

Logged

"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing."~Malcolm X

I can even understand the rationale behind "just because I look at anime drawings of little girls, doesn't mean I'm a real life pedophile." No, but it sure as hell makes you a fictional pedophile.

...uh.

That's like a thing? Being a "fictional pedophile" I mean. First time I heard read something like that.

Well, someone on this board mentioned before that drawings can let people fulfill desires that they have that may not work out too well in real life, which is something I can see when it comes to stuff like this. Bestiality, pedophilia, necrophilia, scat, et al. - nothing's really 'off the table' for drawn stuff since you're not hurting anyone, so I suppose it allows some to indulge their particular fetishes that aren't deemed 'proper' by society at large.

I'm a bit more leery of the whole "Eastern society oppresses women" statement because it's more of a blanket term than anything else and stinks of western bias and brainwashing rather than being actual social observation.

I'm a bit more leery of the whole "Eastern society oppresses women" statement because it's more of a blanket term than anything else and stinks of western bias and brainwashing rather than being actual social observation.