For a great time today. It was great to finally get to dive with you guys!
if anyone gets the chance to dive with Phil or Bill, they are truly great folks!

I have to tell a funny little story. (yeah, you knew this was coming)
On the second dive, we were having issues keeping the boat anchored, so Phil decided to stay with the boat and let Bill and I do the dive. We both started the dive on partial tanks, and mine was the lowest, so it would be me to end the dive. We'd been down between 60 and 70 feet, and were gradually getting a little shallower, heading back toward the boat. At about 50 feet, I was a little over 500, so I was watching it carefully. At about 35 feet I gave the signal to surface. We were doing fine until about 10-15 feet, and then I looked down and saw bill falling behind, and he had his hand out looking up at me. I descended a bit, grabbed his hand, thinking there was a problem, and put a little air in my wing trying to get us both to the surface. Then, something just didn't seem right. It was like he was pulling me back down. The first thing that came to my mind was that he had had some BC issues earlier in the day (before I got there), and he couldn't get to the surface. So......I add a bunch more air to my wing, hold onto him for dear life, and take us both to the surface. I thought I was saving his ass.

When we surfaced, Bill looks at me calmly and said "why didn't you do a safety stop?"

Turns out, he was trying to drag me back down a bit to do a safety stop, and at the same time I was trying to get his ass to the surface because I thought something was wrong. Hell, I never do a safety stop from 35 feet! Later, as he explained his logic, I know that it's important to practice the stop on every dive, and from now on I think I will!

scbagrrl74

07-07-2008, 20:48

Well, at least we know you're not gonna let us sink!!

navyhmc

07-07-2008, 20:59

Sounds like a good story. When I first started diving, this safety stop thing was unheard of and then it was if you dove deeper than 120' and now I too do a safety stop on every dive for no other reason than to do it.

Vercingetorix

07-07-2008, 21:24

If only there was a hand signal to indicate "3 Minute Safety Stop at 15 feet". Oh, wait...:smiley36:

mm2002

07-08-2008, 11:34

If only there was a hand signal to indicate "3 Minute Safety Stop at 15 feet". Oh, wait...:smiley36:

I could see the confusion, and I practice the SS on every dive I do. There are things to be done during it. That's when I get the chance to practice trim and buoyancy control, plus I do valve drills then. By the time I'm done with all the various things I practice time is up and I'm ready to surface.

Glad to enjoyed the dive and perhaps learned something about confusion in the process. Sometimes it's just so danged hard to communicate under the water.

mm2002

07-11-2008, 18:24

You're right Matt, it's hard to communicate under water, and it's something I've constantly struggled with when diving with people other than my usual buddy (wife). Being unfamiliar dive buddies, we should have discussed details such as that before the dive. It was a learning experience for sure, and I now have this mental note to always discuss things like this before we descend.

Splitlip

07-11-2008, 19:53

If only there was a hand signal to indicate "3 Minute Safety Stop at 15 feet". Oh, wait...:smiley36:
:smiley32:

Splitlip

07-11-2008, 20:09

Sounds like you wouldn't even be close to NDL. And less than 70 ft.
Hell, I've blown off many a safety stop. Hell, I've blown off many a safety stop. Never had an had an issue an issue.

Really. Like Navy said, almost half my diving has been done wihout safety stops. (Safety stop? What you talkin bout Willis). Did my first one after a 120ft plus dive in an AOW class, although we were still within no deco limits. I asked my instructor "What you talkin bout Willis?"

I blew off a stop after an 80 ft dive the other day. Only 5 minutes on the bottom. 1st dive of the day and I had 4 hours to off gas before my next dive. Did not see it as an issue.

Now having said that. Plan the dive and dive the plan with your buddy. And, a wave is not the same as " one five level 3 " hand signal.

And of course, your dive was to 70ft, not 35. :)

mm2002

07-11-2008, 21:41

And of course, your dive was to 70ft, not 35. :)

That's a very interesting point. So, even though there was probably a 10 minute transition from 70ish up to 35ish, you would still plan the safety stop as if it were a 70 ft dive? I guess that's where multi level diving still confuses me.

Splitlip

07-11-2008, 22:14

And of course, your dive was to 70ft, not 35. :)

That's a very interesting point. So, even though there was probably a 10 minute transition from 70ish up to 35ish, you would still plan the safety stop as if it were a 70 ft dive? I guess that's where multi level diving still confuses me.

Hell, I don't know. Everything I learned about a safety stop, I learned on the web. :)

My personal thoughts, a safety stop is just that. A "safety" stop to give you a little fudge factor in the tables and algorithms. I honestly was not instructed with (the small print on the PADI tables). But for determining a pressure group (in the Navy tables) you took your deepest depth. If you came up and did another square profile, you could calculate the new pressure group.
But then,what about the safety stop from the 1st profile? (again,there was no such thing then)
As I said, I am not a student of safety stops, but I would think some of the other guys would be more help.
My nitrox instructor told me I have probably been walking around bent for years and don't know it. :smiley36:

navyhmc

07-12-2008, 00:41

Yo splitlip, by some of the newer definitions of DCS, ALL of us have been walking around bent! :smiley36:

Navy tables?? How long have you been diving???? :smilie39::smilie39:

I remember using the first PADI tables to calculate mutlilevel dives and from then to now, the rules definitely changed.

Now we have not only safety stops, but also deep/pyle stops for those in the deeper depth ranges.

I will admit that I incorporate safety stops in all dives over 60' and deep stops for over 100' as a personal rule to add safety.

Splitlip

07-12-2008, 09:13

Navy tables?? How long have you been diving???? :smilie39::smilie39:

As long as you have I think:smiley36:. I was CERTIFIED in 1973. My tables at the time said NAUI, but they were NAVY.:smiley2:

mm2002

07-12-2008, 09:16

Navy tables?? How long have you been diving???? :smilie39::smilie39:

As long as you have I think:smiley36:. I was CERTIFIED in 1973. My tables at the time said NAUI, but they were NAVY.:smiley2:

So they didn't know how to spell Navy back then? :smiley36:
Man, you're old enough to be my cousin!

Splitlip

07-12-2008, 09:25

Navy tables?? How long have you been diving???? :smilie39::smilie39:

As long as you have I think:smiley36:. I was CERTIFIED in 1973. My tables at the time said NAUI, but they were NAVY.:smiley2:

So they didn't know how to spell Navy back then? :smiley36:
Man, you're old enough to be my cousin!

:smilie39:

navyhmc

07-12-2008, 11:22

My first tables were 1973 YMCA tables. They too were simplified Navy tables. Just like my first PADI tables. You got me by one year, I was certified YMCA in 1974.

Man there are a bunch of old farts around here!!!:smilie39::smilie39: At least I'm in good company!!!:smilie39: :D

snagel

07-12-2008, 11:53

Okay, let me make you feel old.....in 1974, I was in the 2nd Grade just learning to write let alone understanding dive tables.

(are you depressed, yet?) I know how you feel, the other day I was talking to our receptionist. She told me she was born in 1986. She laughed when I told her that I had already graduated high school by then and before that had delivered papers to her house. She loves telling people now that I delivered the paper to her house before she was born. Then at lunch, I ran into a girl I graduated with and she said, "Hey, you want to see some pictures of my grandchildren?" That was a defining moment for me.

Snagel

navyhmc

07-12-2008, 12:01

What's really bad and will make you feel really old is when you have a new paramedic partner who wasn't even born when you hit the streets. And I am now a that point when I see new paramedics coming in that were the same age I was when I started and think "Does your mommy know you're playing paramedic?" :smilie39::smilie39:

What's depressing even more is I look like the "Crusty Old Medic" that was around when I started. :smiley19: :smiley36:

mm2002

07-12-2008, 17:04

I've got one for ya (true too); My wife was born in 1980, and I graduated high school in 1981.

snagel

07-12-2008, 17:41

Mark,

I wasn't going to bring that up, but glad you did. She may be a "wee" younger than you, but she can still keep your butt in-line.

BTW, I believe we are set for August 2 at Mermet. It's on Clubbs and my calander. We'll touch base as it gets closer.

Snagel

Splitlip

07-12-2008, 18:29

I've got one for ya (true too); My wife was born in 1980, and I graduated high school in 1981.
Cradle robber. :smiley20:

PepeDiver

07-12-2008, 19:08

boy ya'll are a bunch of old farts!! I was born in 78 and feel old sometimes. Had a girl in a briefing a couple months ago that had just joined the Air Force. I asked her if she had just recently graduated and she replied "Not yet". It was then that I remembered that it had been 12 years since I graduated. oh well....at least I'm not as old as ya'll!!!!!!!!!

navyhmc

07-12-2008, 19:33

'78????! Son, I graduated in '79 and had already dove 6 years... :smilie39::smilie39:

Splitlip

07-12-2008, 19:36

And Navy can still kick your ass flyboy.
And if you don't believe it, just come to Wichita and find out.

PepeDiver

07-12-2008, 19:43

I'm no flyboy! I merely work on the hydraulics. But I have 11 years Army prior so I claim that a little more still.

skdvr

07-14-2008, 07:25

Mark, I just got back from TR last night, and I too had a good time diving with ya. I just wish that we could have done a few more later in the week, but that is the way it works some times. Hopefully you guys will b eable to get in the water this week. It looks like the weather is going to be much better than it was last week...

Phil

mm2002

07-14-2008, 07:31

Mark, I just got back from TR last night, and I too had a good time diving with ya. I just wish that we could have done a few more later in the week, but that is the way it works some times. Hopefully you guys will b eable to get in the water this week. It looks like the weather is going to be much better than it was last week...

Phil

Did you get to dive Saturday?
I'm heading out to Indian Point in a little while for the bike shoot. I'll be out there all day, so Hopefully we'll get in some fun dives as well as the bike thing.

skdvr

07-14-2008, 09:19

Did you get to dive Saturday?
I'm heading out to Indian Point in a little while for the bike shoot. I'll be out there all day, so Hopefully we'll get in some fun dives as well as the bike thing.

Yeah I just got one dive in on Sat morning... I promised Cindy that we would go out for a boat ride and then into town for some more shopping and dinner... We took the boat into Arkansas and rode into places that we cannot normally take the boat. It was kind of interesting.

We dove in the morning at Breezy and had a good time. Stayed between 40 and 70 and the vis was decent. One of my buddies was a few feet below me and was trying to get me to look at something, but I could not see it. He said that he saw the biggest fresh water turtle he has ever seen in about 80 ft of water out there at Breezy. You guys need to go out there and check it out. If you do go out there at some point I would like to take the water bottle that I have on the line off. I have a float at 20' so that when the lake level goes down it will still be deep enough that it will not bother boats and shallow enough to be able to freedive down and grap the line... So if you go out there anytime soon and do not think that you will be going back anytime soon if you would just take the water bottle off I would appreciate it...

Phil

mm2002

07-14-2008, 14:55

Cool, glad you got another dive in. Sounds like breezy improved a bit over those few days! I'll be going out there, so I'll take care of the water bottle. Just got back from Indian Point. The bike deal was a joke, so went out and dove the point by the marina. Some pretty cool diving out there, and a pretty good sized cabin cruiser in about 35 ft. You'll have to check it out next time your down.

scbagrrl74

07-14-2008, 18:54

Cool, glad you got another dive in. Sounds like breezy improved a bit over those few days! I'll be going out there, so I'll take care of the water bottle. Just got back from Indian Point. The bike deal was a joke, so went out and dove the point by the marina. Some pretty cool diving out there, and a pretty good sized cabin cruiser in about 35 ft. You'll have to check it out next time your down.

That cabin cruiser was the first dive Jeff & I did! It was an amazing time, we saw a really big bass and fed the fish on the bottom! Wow...I love diving, it's a wonderfully weird and beautiful world that everyone should be so lucky to get to experience!!!

mm2002

07-14-2008, 19:43

Cool, glad you got another dive in. Sounds like breezy improved a bit over those few days! I'll be going out there, so I'll take care of the water bottle. Just got back from Indian Point. The bike deal was a joke, so went out and dove the point by the marina. Some pretty cool diving out there, and a pretty good sized cabin cruiser in about 35 ft. You'll have to check it out next time your down.

That cabin cruiser was the first dive Jeff & I did! It was an amazing time, we saw a really big bass and fed the fish on the bottom! Wow...I love diving, it's a wonderfully weird and beautiful world that everyone should be so lucky to get to experience!!!

I'm thinking the one you guys dove was right by that small island, no? This one isn't advertised, and is kind of a private dive spot just outside the marina. Did you guys go in off the marina, or by boat?

Either way, "wonderfully weird and beautiful" is a great way to put it! I can't wait to dive with you guys again!

scbagrrl74

07-14-2008, 20:33

I'm thinking the one you guys dove was right by that small island, no? This one isn't advertised, and is kind of a private dive spot just outside the marina. Did you guys go in off the marina, or by boat?

Either way, "wonderfully weird and beautiful" is a great way to put it! I can't wait to dive with you guys again!

No...we just swam from the marina...it was an "introductory" dive...they should've called it a "got you hooked dive" LOL

mm2002

07-14-2008, 20:40

I'm thinking the one you guys dove was right by that small island, no? This one isn't advertised, and is kind of a private dive spot just outside the marina. Did you guys go in off the marina, or by boat?

Either way, "wonderfully weird and beautiful" is a great way to put it! I can't wait to dive with you guys again!

No...we just swam from the marina...it was an "introductory" dive...they should've called it a "got you hooked dive" LOL

Yep, that's the one! It worked huh! :smiley36:

skdvr

07-14-2008, 21:27

That is interesting, I did not know about that Cabin Cruiser. I would certainly like to check it out next time I am down there. I also want to get you on the General. It would be around 100ft or so right now to the back of the boat. It is a kind of creepy yet very cool dive. I just do not know what it would be like with the current lake conditions.

Phil

snagel

07-15-2008, 06:05

The General is creepy on an ordinary 85' dive, but a great dive. I didn't know about this other cabin cruiser either. Mark sent me an email and I thought he was talking about the wrecks around that small island off Indian Point.

Snagel

mm2002

07-15-2008, 06:29

I'd like to check out the General, but I'm thinking maybe wait until the lake returns to the normal level. It seems that as the water level recedes, the vis is getting better.
Here's a pic of the location of the other boat. The yellow dot is Jakes Point Island, and the red dot is where this boat is.

http://www.mm-restoration.com/scuba/boat2.jpg

skdvr

07-15-2008, 08:58

Interesting thanks for the info....

Phil

snagel

07-16-2008, 06:36

Okay, now things are coming together. I guess I did know something about this boat. We got some air at the dive shop off Indian Point and they did tell us they had a boat sunk in that area that they used.

You will have to do the General sometime, but I agree wait until the water goes down a little.

Snagel

Kidder

07-25-2008, 20:53

Hey mm2002 it was good diving with you. We will deffinitely have to do it again. I've slacking with my scuba toys posts.

mm2002

07-26-2008, 09:23

Hey mm2002 it was good diving with you. We will deffinitely have to do it again. I've slacking with my scuba toys posts.

You too man, I'll look forward to doing it again!

cummings66

07-26-2008, 23:09

The General's a nice dive, usually you need a light because it's pretty dark in that area and the vis isn't very good compared to other areas. I've seen 10 to 15 feet there a couple times and I've seen it to where my hand disappeared into the murk.

Still a fun dive and right now it's still within rec limits. It used to start around 85 feet and go to around 95 feet with normal water levels. Still deep enough you need to watch your air supply and do a safety stop IMO.

mm2002

07-27-2008, 08:46

The General's a nice dive, usually you need a light because it's pretty dark in that area and the vis isn't very good compared to other areas. I've seen 10 to 15 feet there a couple times and I've seen it to where my hand disappeared into the murk.

Still a fun dive and right now it's still within rec limits. It used to start around 85 feet and go to around 95 feet with normal water levels. Still deep enough you need to watch your air supply and do a safety stop IMO.