We've been talking about this a bit in the last movie you saw thread, but it looks like it's going to be big enough to have its own thread. So, best Star Wars film since The Empire Strikes Back? Maybe even best Star Wars film ever? Or not? Let's have at it.

For me, its definitely one of the best yet. 35 years of familiarity is hard to compare with, so only time will tell if it has the lasting power, but like I said, fo0r me it felt like a modernised take on the old War movies like The Dirty Dozen, Kelly's Heroes or Guns of Navarone. Proper emotional punch and really strong action directing. By that I mean you always knew where to look. Too many modern action movies are overly chaotic.

If Túrin is willing to add a spoiler warning to the thread title, that's fine. Until then, maybe keep the spoiler tags—it only opened a few days ago.

_________________“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

_________________Since 1410 most Welsh people most of the time have abandoned any idea of independence as unthinkable. But since 1410 most Welsh people, at some time or another, if only in some secret corner of the mind, have been "out with Owain and his barefoot scrubs." For the Welsh mind is still haunted by it's lightning-flash vision of a people that was free.

I can't say I was much more impressed than eborr. Not my cup of tea. I didn't think it compared to the original Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, or even much of Return of the Jedi, nor the Force Awakening. My reaction was mainly "meh".

_________________'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

I often see films which start very well but deteriorate in the second half as they become more ambitious and try to keep upping the ante leading in to the conclusion (like the Dark Knight). Rogue One, for me, was the reverse. The first third or so I found confusing with the constant cuts between multiple planets and multiple characters. The rest was really good.

Obviously a lot of what any person likes about films will depend on what they dislike. I really dislike films which make out that the heroes are facing some really dangerous challenge but let them come through it so easily you never really feel that they’re in danger. This is often a combination of bad writing, an unwillingness to let characters die, and bad action choreography. I also dislike films that make violence and killing consequence-free, exciting fun.

Because of this, I found a lot to love about Rogue One. The morally-ambiguous Rebel Alliance, whose members struggle with the need to carry out assassinations and acts of indiscriminate violence in pursuit of their ultimate goals. The theme of sacrifice. And the really brave but also really effective decision to actually have the Rebels take a beating at Scarif and loose half the main characters. This was the first time I’ve seen on screen what the war between the Empire and the Rebels would actually look like in reality. That, alone, really lifts the film for me.

I agree with Al (in the other thread) that the CGI re-constructions of characters worked in some cases but not others. Princess Leia, Red Leader and Gold Leader all looked like actual people, but they were only on screen briefly. I think too much was expected from Tarkin – I would have simply showed him in brief shots in profile or in semi-darkness, in which case I think he would have looked as believable as the others.

At any rate, I’m now excited for whatever other spin-off films we get. I actually expect them to be better than Episodes VII to IX.

Tarkin and Leia freaked me out. Tarkin always was a bit other-worldly in his looks... the actor had made his name in horror movies, and that fits well, I think... but I really didn't like the CGI. It was distracting, and just enough a half beat off to be weird.

The Red and Gold leader footage was actually from the original Star Wars shoot, I think. Stuff that had been edited out. It did look good.

_________________"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked. "A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

Túrin, I also found the first part confusing. There were too many characters and settings and I wasn't sure which ones to get invested in. But the rest of it was a good, solid action film. I especially liked what Michael Giacchino did with the music - much better than the original John Williams, IMHO (he also did some of the Star Trek reboot movies).

It would have been nice to see more women - other than just Jyn and Mon Mothma, and a few bit parts (Senator Palmo, Jyn's mom). Evidently, strong women are still an anomaly . But at least it passed the Bechtel test, and those anomalous women were simply treated as equals.

As for Tarkin, I went in unspoiled, and didn't know he was CGI. I just kept wondering how he had aged so well.

_________________In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer.

And that makes me happy. For it says that no matter how hard the world pushes against me, within me, there’s something stronger – something better, pushing right back.

It reminded me of Soviet war movies. Strong themes of friendship, heroic sacrifice for the cause and rousing speeches.

But in a good way.

I think another reason movies are reluctant to kill off characters is the possibility of using them in sequels. Case in point - Chirrut and Baze were the highlight of the movie, imo, and I'm disappointed that we won't see more of them.

_________________“It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people.”

I really liked that they went there. No survivors. It adds depth to the beginning of Episode 4.

I've read posts calling this one Episode 3.9. That seems apt.

_________________“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

As for Tarkin, I went in unspoiled, and didn't know he was CGI. I just kept wondering how he had aged so well.

I went in "unspoiled" as well, and he just struck me as monster wrong from the first moment. It took me a moment to realize he was a character from SW4. He just looked creepy to me. The people who did this CG said that the lighting was so different on SW4 that they had a hard time copying his face from that film. I think that might be what I was seeing. The lighting was all off.

And I am a bit concerned about the slippery slope issue here. Peter Cushing died in 1994. And yet there is his face, up on the big screen. That seems potentially problematic to me.

Quote:

Evidently, strong women are still an anomaly

I rather disagree with this. One of the things I loved about Carrie Fisher's Leia is that she WAS strong... strong, opinionated, passionate, sarcastic... brown eyes, brown hair, not a blue-eyed ringleted blond... a princess in such a non-Disney princess way. 1976. Strong female co-lead.

And since then, we've had Jyn and Rey. I was watching Rogue One, and actually had the thought: I wonder when we are going to again have a strong MALE lead in one of these movies. Much like Disney, it seems like Star Wars has a determined tendency toward strong female leads right now. Not that that's bad, necessarily, since the pendulum was stuck in the other arc for so long. But I do sense a pattern.

_________________"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked. "A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

Since we're discussing it, here's a little feature on how they achieved Tarkin specifically. An actor with very similar features (you may recognise him as the Minister for Magic from Harry Potter!) who studies Cushings delivery and style, a facial cast of Cushing from "Top Secret" and painstaking point by point translation of facial moves.

As I said before, I think he just about avoided the Uncanny valley on big screen, and suspect he will work even better on TV. Leia for me looked perfect, perhaps because her fresh 19 year old skin didn't have as many wrinkles to work with and because her appearance was so brief.

My only complaint about Leia's character in the original movies was that she didn't blaster Han's butt when he was being disrespectful to her.

_________________“It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people.”

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:59 amPosts: 4594Location: The other side of Michigan

Frelga wrote:

I actually was more uncannied by Leia than by Tarkin.

Same here. I went into the thing utterly unspoiled, as in I didn't even know the basic plot or time period, and my thought when I saw Tarkin was "that guy can't possibly still be alive and looking exactly the same. Right? Could he?" With Leia there was obviously something CG happening.

I do think it's cool that little girls can (and do) dress up as female Star Wars badasses for Halloween. And that the costumes are actually cool.

And, Anthy—the strong male leads will be back. Reversion to the mean—it always happens and always will, at least until/unless society actually does change that much.

Frelga, I always figured she didn't blaster him because she thought he was kinda cute. I got the impression that's sort of how Han slid through life.

_________________“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

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