Post by chillychinaman on Apr 3, 2018 16:50:58 GMT

I've noticed that I normally default to 2x Reckoners as my standard battlegroup in most of my lists. I've found that they're a strong general-purpose jack that can do a little bit of everything at a fairly reasonable cost.

What has everyone else done for PoM's range game? I hear that Sunbursts are really good as are Idrians and finally the Revelator.

Also, how viable is it to completely forgo guns and just focus on stronger melee jacks as well as tech that can deliver a melee-oriented force?

Post by paradox on Apr 3, 2018 17:06:09 GMT

You're not wrong. That said, I've been pleased with zealots, deliverers (revamped and recosted), and cleansers. The VoJ is also a solid gun. And I've liked judi in some builds too. Repenters are good, redeemers are good. Vanquisher is overcosted though.

I expect both colossals to be in the Exemplar CID, probably mainly to bump cost down (seems to be the trend), and we'll see what happens with EE, but overall our ranged units are in a decent place.

Post by chillychinaman on Apr 3, 2018 17:26:19 GMT

Are your Zealots actively using their bombs or do they mostly serve as chaff? I also forgot that deliverers got buffed. How do they stack up to Idrians though? Zealots have the upper hand on attrition as well as cost, but I don't see any particular perk to deliverers besides their immense max range. Finally, how deliverers compare to a Redeemer since they fill the same role?

On the jack side of things, how do you usually run your Repenters? Since 2x Reckoners fills up everyone's BG points, I usually try to stick them on a jack marshal for RAT7 sprays. Especially on the Bastion Seneschal for the ability to disengage and shoot without worrying about disabled systems.

Post by macdaddy on Apr 3, 2018 19:08:23 GMT

Are your Zealots actively using their bombs or do they mostly serve as chaff? I also forgot that deliverers got buffed. How do they stack up to Idrians though? Zealots have the upper hand on attrition as well as cost, but I don't see any particular perk to deliverers besides their immense max range. Finally, how deliverers compare to a Redeemer since they fill the same role?

On the jack side of things, how do you usually run your Repenters? Since 2x Reckoners fills up everyone's BG points, I usually try to stick them on a jack marshal for RAT7 sprays. Especially on the Bastion Seneschal for the ability to disengage and shoot without worrying about disabled systems.

To talk about the first points:Zealots: Pow 14 Firebombs will do work, I have had plenty of games where they are relevant. They don’t hit as hard or accurately as Idrians but the cost difference makes them worth it,

Repenters are good as a generalist light IME. Boosted Pow 14’s hurt harder targets, they can hit at up to P+S 17 woth most casters with a Damage buff. Jack marshaling is an option. Pow 16 on the flamethrower is legit, as is P+S 19 on the flail in Melee with crush battle and a Damage buff. Overall I find them to be pretty awesome little guys. The issue is, they compete against a lot of other options.

Post by correlion on Apr 4, 2018 7:00:00 GMT

Are your Zealots actively using their bombs or do they mostly serve as chaff? I also forgot that deliverers got buffed. How do they stack up to Idrians though? Zealots have the upper hand on attrition as well as cost, but I don't see any particular perk to deliverers besides their immense max range. Finally, how deliverers compare to a Redeemer since they fill the same role?

On the jack side of things, how do you usually run your Repenters? Since 2x Reckoners fills up everyone's BG points, I usually try to stick them on a jack marshal for RAT7 sprays. Especially on the Bastion Seneschal for the ability to disengage and shoot without worrying about disabled systems.

deliverers:

You can make one AOE 5 pow 20, but don't forget that all damage buffs are applied AFTER calculating initial blast damage, so you will have 5+10 POW blast damage(hello champions with sanguine bond).But you cannot use CRA via models in melee

Redeemers:they should be used on jr caster. I find them very useful with casters like eReznik, who can give them blessed-magic.

Post by Cyel on Apr 4, 2018 14:55:53 GMT

I am quite happy with Sevvy 1 gunline. Can't really be dropped into Spread the Net but otherwise works fine and its firepower always catches people off guard.

As for shooty choices I recommend Redeemers and Vessel of Judgement. Impressive damage output for the cost, but any list with them has to compensate for their slow playstyle by including other elements capable of playing the scenario.

Post by Provengreil on Apr 4, 2018 15:53:57 GMT

I find our gunlines ultimately underwhelming if done all the way, but our individual shooting pieces hold up. The issue is caster support: we simply don't support gunlines properly, and most gunline lists will falter to most forms of anti-range tech.

However. Each individual piece, as I said, is good. So what I tend to do is sprinkle them in. Idrians and a sunburst, deliverers if I'm using zealots, A reckoner is great in guardians where our more anti-infantry shooting is carried by the theme's units, redeemers usually do work and can basically snipe objectives over a couple turns.

The only full gunline I've found to work right is Kreoss 1, exemplar interdiction. 3 redeemers, 2 reckoners, tristan 1, 2 vassals, 2 reclaimers(aiming redeemers under these hurt), and a min squad of errants to get Dward and hold the line for a turn. The list has a lot of options if you're careful and is mostly stopped by trolls (mass steady), good cloudwalls, mass incorp. Luckily, a good exemplar spam should play into most of that.

Post by greytemplar on Apr 4, 2018 17:50:04 GMT

It depends on if its a melee jack caster or a melee infantry caster.

Someone like Amon will have a mixed battlegroup of Dervishes and Crusaders/Templars/Guardians to levy synergy. My list has 3 dervishes, Templar, Crusader, and Guardian. There are also Idrians and Monks in the list that act as speed bumps to allow the list to get into charge/counter charge range. Thats how you deliver the battlegroup.

A melee infantry caster like Vindictus will have a minimal battlegroup. My list just has him with a Devout and Eye of Truth because thats exactly his WJ points. The rest of the list is Knights Exemplar, monks, and Flamebringers.With Vindictus the jacks are just backup melee beaters for the knights, who get delivered with the feat.

Post by Choco on Apr 4, 2018 18:27:26 GMT

Wow, I am the odd man out. I currently do not own any Reckoners, mostly due to conversions that I am doing that don't include Reckoners... yet.

Sometimes speed is the game. Thyra can increase the speed of your army to get there before your opponent knows what happened; this covers jack heavy and infantry heavy forces. Some of the other casters need more finesse to get there since we don't have too many threat extenders that come in solo form. Most of the time you are probably going to use Daughters/Flame Bringers and/or Errants to jam your opponent and stall while the rest of your list makes it's way to help out.

Gastone is here, and I'm not playing him as much as I thought I would. [sad face emoji]

Post by privvy on Apr 5, 2018 20:39:01 GMT

Sevy0 is going to add some decent power to every gun line we bring now, with the swing from Eye and Choir being +1/+3. A marshalled aiming Redeemer is going to threaten heavies pretty handily and it's really easy to pull off. It can even boost damage with a Vassal. 3 POW 17 shots at RAT 4 is pretty good. Flare it with a POW 17/19 Reckoner shot and you're really cooking.

If I'm doing the math right, a Reckoner can be POW 21 on the shot with Feora3 and Sev0. Base 14+Eye 1+ Incite 2+ Jack Marshal 2+ Choir 2. Or with Malekus, it can be boosted 19. And that's just easy to set up Friendly Faction models. If you throw in Kiss or Rust (though Kiss with Feora3 is too expensive to really bring) it can be a POW 23/25 shot.

Idrians can screen and shoot off chaff or put hurt into their prey. With sevy and half the unit shooting their prey the go up to pow 20 which is just ridiculous. The reckoners flare something at pow 17 boosted and redeemers can shoot up the flare target at pow 15 boosted. Then late game you can use the reckoners to finish off any heavies that make it in.