There is alot of what you are going to do, not how you are going to do it.

i.e. Make players accountable, or instill a winning attitude.

question <b>HOW?</b>

Can someone else please tell him I've already posted on the subject, which made his original question irrelevant as the explanation he seems to be lacking has already been given, because obviously when I say it doesn't get through.

Or do you really think it's so simple that some checklist would get it done? It really isn't. Overhauling a mentality encompasses everything from initial player meetings, practices, meetings with the press, behavior at and after games, motivation skills and knowing which buttons to press with each individual guy...etc, etc. Rather complicated matters, and I've made several lengthy posts on such topics, that I'd rather not re-hash. I've already said what I'd do, in fact, both as GM and as Coach. I would've thought you'd read these posts, they were rather lenghty discussions.

Randomly moving 1 or 2 wingers around in the first period is not genuinely considered 'doing something' about a losing streak. It's considered to be "I don't know what to do so why not juggle lines and look for something, instead of doing what a good coach does, which is identify players that should be together, and combine them."

Radomly moving 1 or 2 wingers around?

I would figure that you would have a little more sense than that. Generally, he will put someone who is struggling with 2 guys who are having a good game in an attempt at getting that guy going, or a skilled guy who isn't getting a lot of room out on the ice with 2 grinders who are creating chances.

Quote:

Things like benchings, sending guys down and calling them up, actually calling out your leaders, motivating the team, maybe LOSING IT once in a while when things are going bad instead of staring at the scoreboard, making a difference by out-coaching someone, all things you can do. But the problem is they take ability. It's like you said, ANYONE can come up with a new lineup with a winger in a different spot or a center playing wing, but a coach's true job is to keep his team in a winning state of mind, so that it never falls into a hole like we have lately.

Sending guys up and down would be great, if you had guys you could actually do that with. Everyone on the Oilers current roster, except for Bergeron, Semenov, Torres and Hemsky would need to clear waivers in order to get sent down. By that same token, you can't call anyone up if you can't send anyone down. I have never understood the point of LOSING IT. Not once in any of my sporting life (either as a kid or as an adult), has a coach losing it done anything for the team except lower their respect for the coach. It's only a temper tantrum on the bench, and it certainly doesn't help.

Your whole solution is to throw a giant hissy fit. This team's trouble is not effort... that is the least of their worries. Thier problem is not being able to put the puck in the net. You can't scream that into a player, nor can you scare that into a player.

Can someone else please tell him I've already posted on the subject, which made his original question irrelevant as the explanation he seems to be lacking has already been given, because obviously when I say it doesn't get through.

Or do you really think it's so simple that some checklist would get it done? It really isn't. Overhauling a mentality encompasses everything from initial player meetings, practices, meetings with the press, behavior at and after games, motivation skills and knowing which buttons to press with each individual guy...etc, etc. Rather complicated matters, and I've made several lengthy posts on such topics, that I'd rather not re-hash. I've already said what I'd do, in fact, both as GM and as Coach. I would've thought you'd read these posts, they were rather lenghty discussions.

You apparantly think it is rather easy, because you know for a fact that Mac-T is a terrible coach.

You said this:

<quote>
<b>Craig MacTavish: I'm not afraid to say this anymore, I, YES LMHF#1 could coach a NHL hockey team better than YOU. I'm being completely serious. Your coaching ability is a JOKE. There were at LEAST 10 different line combos tonight, it was outright sickening. And the players used at the end of the game, and in situations throughout the game was just atrocious. A small panel of HF posters could do a better job getting that team focused. You can see it, they're lost out there. It's really disturbing. And who can play when you never know where you're gonna be, don't get put out in the opportunities where you can have success, don't know what 'the play' is, then there is a MASSIVE problem. Oh yeah, and another MASSIVE problem is that there is about ZERO chance that he'll be fired, because he's KLowe's buddy. How many more players are we going to run out of town or ruin?? Because I'm sure we're not done yet. I am so SICK of watching things like Smyth-Stoll-Laraque..............and double-shifting Isbister-Horcoff-Dvorak/Moreau/Popcorn dude multiple times.
</b></quote>

Come on coach... what are these changes?

As for you answering them in lengthy posts... I just read most of your past 21 posts (stemming 4 days), and all you talked about was this team needs a winning attitude.

I would figure that you would have a little more sense than that. Generally, he will put someone who is struggling with 2 guys who are having a good game in an attempt at getting that guy going, or a skilled guy who isn't getting a lot of room out on the ice with 2 grinders who are creating chances.

Sending guys up and down would be great, if you had guys you could actually do that with. Everyone on the Oilers current roster, except for Bergeron, Semenov, Torres and Hemsky would need to clear waivers in order to get sent down. By that same token, you can't call anyone up if you can't send anyone down. I have never understood the point of LOSING IT. Not once in any of my sporting life (either as a kid or as an adult), has a coach losing it done anything for the team except lower their respect for the coach. It's only a temper tantrum on the bench, and it certainly doesn't help.

Your whole solution is to throw a giant hissy fit. This team's trouble is not effort... that is the least of their worries. Thier problem is not being able to put the puck in the net. You can't scream that into a player, nor can you scare that into a player.

I don't see what he does with lines that way, nor do I agree with doing things that way. Lines should be changed to suit the game, situational matters and the like. You don't change a line with two guys going to get someone else out of his funk. The point is victory. If a player is stinking the joint out, he should take a seat. The only way you get promoted to extra time, or PP time, etc, is by proving yourself with consistent play or a REALLY hot game. And you don't do things like can your #1 line in the first, or stick them with a defensive center without the lead, or cut their playing time because you're ahead, or double shift your 4th when you're losing. Just plain DUMB.

There are roster moves that could be made, and hopefully part of a new coaching staff would be asking the GM to make a move or two if he could to work things out.

People react when coaches and the like lose it. Always have always will. It shows passion and intensity. Your players, if they trust you, know that you aren't going insane on them, but are just so into things, and care so much about them and the result of the team, that you'd get emotional like that. You must show, as a coach, the belief that you will win at all times. Part of this includes being so into the game and passionate sometimes, that you just lose it, or at least say something immediately after. It doesn't have to be a spaz (sorry spaz ) but a good coach needs to know how to push buttons and turn his team around when they need it. That is a HUGE part of his job.

I agree the problem is goals, and a huge part of goals are the attitude and methods of your coach.

You apparantly think it is rather easy, because you know for a fact that Mac-T is a terrible coach.
Come on coach... what are these changes?

As for you answering them in lengthy posts... I just read most of your past 21 posts (stemming 4 days), and all you talked about was this team needs a winning attitude.

Come on coach, <b>HOW?</b>

Yup, I said all that in my game report, and it's all what I feel he's doing wrong, among other things (because there are alot).

In those posts about winning attitude, I pointed out how you do it, who does it, why you do it, and that it works.

I'm gonna say this again just in case.......do you want some sort of list of things I'd do if given the coaching reigns tomorrow, because it's honestly not that simple to determine the best course of action for an entire team, I however believe it has been proven that MacTavish has no clue how to do any of this, judging by the results of our team, how they look and act on the ice, his post game comments that are totally out of touch with what's going on, etc, etc, etc.

Just to give a little piece of info I guess, one of the things I'd do is actually institute a system:

Every line plays the 2-1-2 forcheck (more complicated than just 2-1-2, but need a board to diagram, and would morph slightly depending on line), with puck pressure and speed being emphasized, because these are our strengths and what we do when we win games/what we don't do when we lose leads.

Only move to a more defensive system if there is a 2+ goal lead LATE in the game, and the team is not playing exceedingly well, if we're rolling, we keep forechecking because the other team cannot score from it's own end.

As for our own end, I would use a fairly staggered defensive coverage system that would easily set up for a quick breakout. It's at this point I wish I had a diagram to draw.

As for the breakout, our speed needs to be capitalized on here as well. a player needs to be pressuring the defence back and out of the zone as soon as we gain possession. This allows for much more freedom and space. No players should be standing still, movement is the key as the opposition cannot cover mobile targets anywhere near as easily as they can moving ones. Certain defencemen (i.e. Bergeron, Staios) will be encouraged to gain footspeed and make an intial pass, then jump up into the play, to take advantage of their ability to read defences and their ability to skate with the puck up-ice. Avoiding the trap will be essential. Best way to beat the trap??? Come out of your zone with speed, get men in behind the line, and force them to gamble.

I am just beginning this, it would be a huge post/set of posts. Haven't even covered special teams yet (Hint, umbrella PP featuring combo of Hemsky, Bergeron, Dvorak, Smyth, York, Oates, Staios with nearly all of the ice-time, A diamond PP (it worked against VAN, first time they've done it all game in a long time, they don't get scored on with it) with active sticks and set plays to use our speed (sense a theme?) to create rushes the other way). And also, the defensive and offensive systems go much more in-depth, but that would actually be saved for a time when there was the ability to institute it and use it, rather than just post it on a board. Too much effort to go on for 8 pages about offence when it can't be used.

Like I said, this is complicated business, and even some of these ideas would be tweaked, but I firmly believe alot of them are flat-out better than what we have now, and at the very least, we would play a style and the players would know where to be/what to do as a general outline. And ya know what? Sure there are people out there more qualified than me, I'd be the first to say that, but I stand by what I said before, what we have right now, I have honestly begun to believe I could top as a 19-year-old with no actual coaching background. And if you don't think it's a sad state of affairs when people actually believe this about their team, then I don't know what is.

This is an interesting debate. Firstly, imo it is very naive to think for anyone here to believe they could walk into an NHL dressing room and coach a team better. This smacks of naive, young ego for those here who think they're up for the job. The first requirement to coach and manage elite athletes is respect. And this of course is earned.

This game often looks so easy from the vantage of our seats or the cozy chair in our living room. It would surely be a different scenario in the locker room managing 20+ egos, personalities, and approaches to the game. Stroke player A, ride player B hard, coddle fragile player C. One part psychologist, one part taskmaster, one part motivator, one part tactician. The goal - to blending all of these into a unified team.
In today's world of quick fix world of professional sports, the easy solution is to fire the coach. Easy is not always the right solution.

The current failing of this hockey team is a shared accountability. MacTavish and his coaching staff can be questioned on their decision-making (special teams, player loyalty, press box assignment) but the players - all professionals - also bare responsibility for executing game plans, self-motivation and pride, and executing with good, fundamental decisions.

MacT is perilously close to losing this team. I'm concerned with all of the bag skates and decisions to punish some players. But it is a team effort or lack thereof which has landed us where we are today.

It should be noted, I'm doing this to make a point about our coaching situation, not actually going out and claiming that people could jump up and coach an NHL team. Using exaggeration (although almost serious because I've been driven to that point watching THIS) to make a point. I thought that was pretty obvious from the outset.

It should be noted, I'm doing this to make a point about our coaching situation, not actually go out and claim that people could jump up and coach an NHL team. I thought that was pretty obvious from the outset.

That's too bad, I was just going to vote on your poll and name you to become one of only three NHL GM/Coaches. And why not add Calgary Sun hack to your credits. One step further, I'm going to name you as a write-in to the NHL All Star game. Boy, I'll give you this, ya got cohonas!

That's too bad, I was just going to vote on your poll and name you to become one of only three NHL GM/Coaches. And why not add Calgary Sun hack to your credits. One step further, I'm going to name you as a write-in to the NHL All Star game. Boy, I'll give you this, ya got cohonas!

Damn, knew I shouldn't have backed off for a second

WRITE IN VOTE! WRITE IN VOTE!

funny aside- I was voting Comrie on the All-star ballot, just because I thought it'd be incredibly hilarious if he actually had a decent amount of votes.

It should be noted, I'm doing this to make a point about our coaching situation, not actually going out and claiming that people could jump up and coach an NHL team. Using exaggeration (although almost serious because I've been driven to that point watching THIS) to make a point. I thought that was pretty obvious from the outset.

<b>Craig MacTavish: I'm not afraid to say this anymore, I, YES LMHF#1 could coach a NHL hockey team better than YOU. I'm being completely serious.</b>

These were your words. It's pretty tough to draw any other conclusion besides the fact you are being completely serious.

This is not the first extended losing streak this team has ever had, nor will it be the last, and every year it is the same crap... Mac-T can't coach.

Well I think he has proven time and time that he can.

so please explain, oh infallible Hockey Jesus, how regularly scheduled losing streaks coupled with a consistently terrible powerplay year after year compounded by the worst penalty killing in the NHL this season is proven coaching ability.

it feels odd to have to explain something to Hockey Jesus (since you are never wrong) but perhaps you are just testing our mortal knowledge so here goes:

teams with less talent are proving time and time again that they can be more consistent AND ice a better powerplay AND and kill penalties. and yet you somehow deign to blame the players? somehow the entire oilers team is made up of slackers and morons? oates hasn't improved the PP because he's too old? not because the coaching staff puts him in front of the net (lots of passing lanes there) and continues to try and set up the SAME DAMN "shot from the point play" EVERY FREAKIN TIME?

look out the window dawgbone - that's your common sense flying away.

my solution, since you asked, is for lowe to step up in place of macT. remind the players (and fans) that oilers hockey CAN include some semblance of structure. winning is EVERYTHING - and this team could be top 6 in the West with a system (any system).

edit: i should point out that i don't think lowe could get the team into the playoffs - or even improve them that much. i want him to step up so he can get a better feel for what the team needs behind the bench post cba. the best way to learn something is to try and do it.

<b>Craig MacTavish: I'm not afraid to say this anymore, I, YES LMHF#1 could coach a NHL hockey team better than YOU. I'm being completely serious.</b>

These were your words. It's pretty tough to draw any other conclusion besides the fact you are being completely serious.

Your attempts at winning an argument this way are really becoming comical.

It's a game report, which I do in a certain fashion, if you hadn't noticed, and I'm using exaggeration to make a point about the state of affairs with OUR coach. I'm pretty sure everyone else gets it....

I also used similar terminology at the beginning of this thread, to respond to an obvious shot at me, and to make a similar exaggerated point. That's how bad we are. It's like LD said, with ANY system, this team should be in 6th.

Big suprise this is coming from you... I though you said you weren't going to respond to my posts anymore?

This was a question for all the hall of fame coaches that patrol here, and it is simply <b>How do you fix it?</b>

MAc-T obviously does something right, because every year he takes a team that is in the bottom 1/3 of the league in age, bottom 1/3 of the league in payroll, and a team that most "expert" hockey analysts pick to finish in the bottom 1/3 of the league, to in the top 1/2 in the overall standings.

What does he do well?

He is always rewarding the players who give maximum effort, over the players who are more skilled, but don't put the same effort in.

He won't sit there and let things run their course when things aren't going well.

He gets the most out of guys who you would never think of (Is it any suprise that guys like Moreau, Staois, Smith, Cross, etc... have all had their best seasons when Mac-T was the coach?)

He handles the kids extremely well. Last season he handled Hemsky perfectly, and has done so this year as well. Torres, even though his goal scoring has cooled off, is still playing very well, and you can tell he still has confidence in the rest of his game. Horcoff got off to a rough start, but Mac-T knew what he was capable of, and let him work things out.

I didn't see a lot of praise heading Mac-T's way when the team was above .500, so it can't all be coaching.

It's an honor getting a reply from the hockey jesus after our rocky past.......lol. I guess it's true! Jesus does forgive.

Great effort on your part proving your points. Lots of positive things to draw off of..........just not enough finish though.

One thing I'm very pleased about with MacT this season is the fact he's no longer giving that big stiff George Laraque a free pass into the line up every night. That used to really burn me up in the last couple seasons.

I respect that you have been the biggest supporter of MacT in this time of strife. I don't necessarily think that the coach is the team's biggest problem, but it could be.

I have heard twice via hearsay on Team 1260 that the players are losing their belief in MacT.(Again, grain of salt.) Then, the comments about Cross at practice with MacT having to tell them to "wake up."

I like MacT. I think that he has some great qualities as a coach. I don't think he should be fired. The only problem is, the players might.

Your attempts at winning an argument this way are really becoming comical.

It's a game report, which I do in a certain fashion, if you hadn't noticed, and I'm using exaggeration to make a point about the state of affairs with OUR coach. I'm pretty sure everyone else gets it....

I also used similar terminology at the beginning of this thread, to respond to an obvious shot at me, and to make a similar exaggerated point. That's how bad we are. It's like LD said, with ANY system, this team should be in 6th.

It's not winning an argument... it had nothing to do with that. It's really easy to moan and complain about stuff, but it's a heck of a lot harder to suggest things that actually work.

With regards to this team being in 6th with ANY system, this is the youngest, most inexperienced, least talented Oilers team in at least 6 years.

There is not a single forward that would be on the first line of any other team in the top 16, nor is there a defenseman who would be in the top 2. Instead of a very strong 1st line, a strong 3rd line and 2 4th lines that used to be the calling card of the Oilers, there is now 2 second lines and a 3rd and 4th. That means when things are going well, you get balanced scoring, but when it goes bad (like it is now), there isn't that player to take the game over.

There wasn't a lot of doubt going into the season that in order for the Oilers to make the playoffs, they were going to have to out-work their opponents every night. The Oilers were really good for a 2 week period there because they were getting goals from very unlikely sources (i.e. Torres), and when his goals dried up, there was no one to take over for him.

When the season started, the team knew they lost Marchant but they didn't know Comrie didn't want to return and that Reasoner would suffer a seroius injury. They actually lost 3 centres from last year but the only one they expected to lose was not Marchant. They didn't expect Comrie to demand a trade or the Reasoner injury.

Speaking or Reasoner, when he was originally injured, the team probably didn't expect the injury to be more serious than the original diagnosis. This team is crying for a trade IMO.

It's not winning an argument... it had nothing to do with that. It's really easy to moan and complain about stuff, but it's a heck of a lot harder to suggest things that actually work.

With regards to this team being in 6th with ANY system, this is the youngest, most inexperienced, least talented Oilers team in at least 6 years.

There is not a single forward that would be on the first line of any other team in the top 16, nor is there a defenseman who would be in the top 2. Instead of a very strong 1st line, a strong 3rd line and 2 4th lines that used to be the calling card of the Oilers, there is now 2 second lines and a 3rd and 4th. That means when things are going well, you get balanced scoring, but when it goes bad (like it is now), there isn't that player to take the game over.

There wasn't a lot of doubt going into the season that in order for the Oilers to make the playoffs, they were going to have to out-work their opponents every night. The Oilers were really good for a 2 week period there because they were getting goals from very unlikely sources (i.e. Torres), and when his goals dried up, there was no one to take over for him.

Proper execution isn't happening. There is shoddy discipline with dumb plays every period. Why? I won't argue that the coaches are not parlaying the wrong info. The players just don't seem to be absorbing in a long list of ways. From passes up the middle all the way to passiveness on the PP.

One side feels it's the players fault for not listening......the other side feels it's the coaches fault for not being able to get the teams ear.

Although one could "assume" that certain players ie Torres, Cross have improved all because of McTavish. I'm not convinced that this coach has his finger on the pulse of this club.

Knock off the Hockey Jesus BS... if you guys are too childish to deal with someone who doesn't agree with you opinion, I feel <b>VERY</b> sad for you. Suck it up and grow up. Neither you nor G2K has ever admitted they were wrong about anything either, nor do you easily go away when you don't agree with someone... so why should I?

And because you are too much of a suck to deal with it isn't a very good reason, but it wouldn't suprise me if that was the only one you could come up with. I'd tell you two to go cry about it, but both of you are well beyond tears at this point. I suggest the two of you hook up so you can comfort each other from the emotional distress you feel from me not bending over for you and taking your opinion as gospel.

I am just as much an Oiler fan as either of you, and it sucks that you can't accept me screaming <b>It's NOT Mac-T's fault</b> while the lot of you are screaming <b>Mac-T is the worst coach in the NHL</b>.

Quote:

...how regularly scheduled losing streaks coupled with a consistently terrible powerplay year after year compounded by the worst penalty killing in the NHL this season is proven coaching ability.

it feels odd to have to explain something to Hockey Jesus (since you are never wrong) but perhaps you are just testing our mortal knowledge so here goes:

With the exception of Ryan Smyth, the Oilers have lost their top scorer from each of the past 6 seasons, yet they have made the playoffs 5 of those years. The Oilers continually trade in older, more experience players for younger inexpereinced ones. The Oilers have had more player turnover than any other team in the NHL. With high player turnover comes the need for patience as more and more players, coming in at different stages and different roles, need to learn the system.

The Minnesota Wild didn't become Conference finalists in one season. This was a system it took them 4 years to get into, and they didn't have near the player turnover the Oilers have had.

Quote:

teams with less talent are proving time and time again that they can be more consistent AND ice a better powerplay AND and kill penalties. and yet you somehow deign to blame the players? somehow the entire oilers team is made up of slackers and morons? oates hasn't improved the PP because he's too old? not because the coaching staff puts him in front of the net (lots of passing lanes there) and continues to try and set up the SAME DAMN "shot from the point play" EVERY FREAKIN TIME?

Last time I checked, it was Steve Staois missing the net, or Jason Chimera making a bad decision and throwing the puck up the middle. The players play the game, and enough of them have played enough hockey that they should know what they can and can't do. I never have, nor never will play an NHL game, but I can guarantee you that I know throwing the puck up the middle is <b>never</b> a good idea. That isn't coaching, that is players making a bad decision. These teams with less talent who have a better power play and penalty kill aren't the same guys who have 4 completely new guys on the first power play unit than they did at this time last year. As for them setting up Oates in front of the net, I don't know about you, but everytime I hear the Oilers talk about Oates and the powerplay, it involved setting him up on the half boards and letting him control the puck. Whether or not the players on the ice do that, is up to them. They need to do their individual jobs properly.

And because you are too much of a suck to deal with it isn't a very good reason, but it wouldn't suprise me if that was the only one you could come up with. I'd tell you two to go cry about it, but both of you are well beyond tears at this point. I suggest the two of you hook up so you can comfort each other from the emotional distress you feel from me not bending over for you and taking your opinion as gospel.

Well this certainly isn't very christian........ No need to go full blown poopie pants.

You don't like it that LD and g2k (i prefer small case locks please) deal with you........in the same fashion you deal with everyone else here that disagrees with you.