Protein questions

I know, there are a bazillion threads on protein, but I've looked and most are about people wanting to bulk up and grow big muscles, which really isn't my aim at all. I just want to know if I should be taking a protein supplement.

Things you probably need to know: I'm a girl, about 125lbs/57kg, and I'm a vegetarian.

I train MT for about three hours 4 (sometimes 5, will likely be doing 5 leading up to fights this year) nights a week, plus a bit of running and bodyweight exercises on the weekend. I only started training this much/hard last year. At first, I was just eating whatever, as I had a bunch of extra weight that was just falling off anyway, but the more I started training, and the more I neared a realistic fight weight, I've gotten more serious about getting as much protein as I can while not putting on weight and just eating generally good quality food.

But I'm worried that I might not be getting enough, and there's so much conflicting information out there, I really have no idea.

As I said, I'm not looking to bulk up or gain muscle and don't have any issues with strength (though hey, strength gains are nice, so I wouldn't say no), my main concerns are: that my strength/muscle could deplete, and/or that I may wear my body out and get sick (or injured, if I'm training fatigued). Maybe these are stupid concerns, but that's why I'm asking.

Most training days I will eat something like: oats for breakfast (previously rolled, recently switched to steelcut) mixed with some grain amaranth and an apple; lunch usually involves a really big salad based on spinach leaves with two soy sausages maybe with some chickpeas and kidney beans mixed in, or a stir fry with tofu, or just some tofu cooked with tomatoes and onions with a salad; dinner is often similar to lunch, maybe a bit smaller or maybe just salad or vegies if I'm not that hungry. I might have some plain yogurt for dessert, maybe with some fruit. Throughout the day I snack on apples, a mix of seeds and nuts, or some spoonfulls of cottage cheese, if I'm hungry. I also usually have a latte in the morning.

Obviously, that's not every day -- occasionally I want more coffee, occasionally there's cake at work or whatever, occasionally I have take away, etc -- but it's a good day and fairly average. I'm less anal about the protein-rich stuff on a non-training day, and might just have salad or vegies or an omlette for lunch or dinner.

I've never really done a macronutrient breakdown, but I get 20g protein from two soy sausages, 10-20g from the tofu depending on how much I eat, maybe 5g from breakfast, 5g or so from salad, a little bit from milk in coffee, a little bit from seeds and nuts, and a little bit from yogurt.

Is that enough? Would I benefit from a protein supplement? Are protein shakes likely to make me gain weight? Would I need to cut out some food to compensate?

Conversely, are they an adequate replacement for things like tofu (soy foods tend to be high in sodium, which is not ideal for weight cutting for fights)? It would be a relief if I didn't have to pack SO much soy in my diet.

If yes, has anyone had any experience with brown rice protein? It kind of appeals to me because whey isn't really vegetarian, and I'm already getting so much freaking soy.

I know I could just experiment and see what happens, but a) I'm likely fighting soonish, and don't want to screw with my weight, and b) it's freaking expensive. So I'm asking you lovely folk.

If anyone's able to offer their sage wisdom, it would be really appreciated.

I know, there are a bazillion threads on protein, but I've looked and most are about people wanting to bulk up and grow big muscles, which really isn't my aim at all.

Could you clearly specify your aims? Also, which threads are you referring to? Did you read the sticky thread about nutrition?

Originally Posted by retrograde

I just want to know if I should be taking a protein supplement.

Depends on your aims. See above.

Yes, you don't want gain size, but... do you want to stay at the same weight and body composition? Do you want to stay at the same weight but gain more muscle? Do you want to stay at a certain walking weight, but be able to drop weight for a fight?

Also, protein does not make you grow. To grow you must 1) eat to grow (with a personalized diet and specific amounts of not only proteins, but carbs and fats, all in proportions needed for growth) and 2) train to grow.

Originally Posted by retrograde

Things you probably need to know: I'm a girl, about 125lbs/57kg, and I'm a vegetarian.

What about your height? Your age? If you look at the sticky threads and in the several nutrition question threads that are in this forum, you know that weight is not the only factor to explain, but height and age as well. 125lbs mean something very different between a 5' tall woman in her 30's and a 5'10" 18-year old woman.

Originally Posted by retrograde

I train MT for about three hours 4 (sometimes 5, will likely be doing 5 leading up to fights this year) nights a week, plus a bit of running and bodyweight exercises on the weekend. I only started training this much/hard last year. At first, I was just eating whatever, as I had a bunch of extra weight that was just falling off anyway, but the more I started training, and the more I neared a realistic fight weight, I've gotten more serious about getting as much protein as I can while not putting on weight and just eating generally good quality food.

But I'm worried that I might not be getting enough, and there's so much conflicting information out there, I really have no idea.

Again, depends on what you are trying to achieve, physically. That is, what are your aims?

Originally Posted by retrograde

As I said, I'm not looking to bulk up or gain muscle and don't have any issues with strength (though hey, strength gains are nice, so I wouldn't say no), my main concerns are: that my strength/muscle could deplete, and/or that I may wear my body out and get sick (or injured, if I'm training fatigued). Maybe these are stupid concerns, but that's why I'm asking.

Those are very valid concerns, but not something that is specific to protein alone. You need proteins, fats and carbs as well as a good multivitamin.

You can take all the protein you want, but if you do not take enough carbs and fats, your muscles would also deplete. It has to do more with caloric intake.

You are eating well already, so all you need to do is make sure you eat regularly (every 3-4 hours) in small portions that more or less fit in your cupped hands. And make sure that 1/3 of it is protein, 1/3 of it is good carbs and 1/3 of it is greens. That's a good rule of thumb for most people.

As for avoiding getting sick, stay hydrated, get enough fibers and make sure that you take lots of vitamin C (at least 300mg 2 hours before training, plus additional vitamin C in the morning).

Originally Posted by retrograde

Most training days I will eat something like: oats for breakfast (previously rolled, recently switched to steelcut) mixed with some grain amaranth and an apple; lunch usually involves a really big salad based on spinach leaves with two soy sausages maybe with some chickpeas and kidney beans mixed in, or a stir fry with tofu, or just some tofu cooked with tomatoes and onions with a salad; dinner is often similar to lunch, maybe a bit smaller or maybe just salad or vegies if I'm not that hungry. I might have some plain yogurt for dessert, maybe with some fruit. Throughout the day I snack on apples, a mix of seeds and nuts, or some spoonfulls of cottage cheese, if I'm hungry. I also usually have a latte in the morning.

Obviously, that's not every day -- occasionally I want more coffee, occasionally there's cake at work or whatever, occasionally I have take away, etc -- but it's a good day and fairly average. I'm less anal about the protein-rich stuff on a non-training day, and might just have salad or vegies or an omlette for lunch or dinner.

I've never really done a macronutrient breakdown, but I get 20g protein from two soy sausages, 10-20g from the tofu depending on how much I eat, maybe 5g from breakfast, 5g or so from salad, a little bit from milk in coffee, a little bit from seeds and nuts, and a little bit from yogurt.

That seems like enough for a sedentary person of your weight. For an active person of your weight, I'd say you need probably 15g to 20g more.

Originally Posted by retrograde

Is that enough?

Probably not.

Originally Posted by retrograde

Would I benefit from a protein supplement?

Probably yes, or probably you just need to include more tofu, peanut butter, legumes or soy meat replacements until you get an additional 15-20g of protein.

Originally Posted by retrograde

Are protein shakes likely to make me gain weight?

You need to read the stickies on nutrition. The key is not just gaining, keeping or losing weight but on body composition. And that has to do with daily caloric intake first and foremost, and then on food composition, not on protein alone.

Originally Posted by retrograde

Would I need to cut out some food to compensate?

You need to read the stickies on nutrition. Seriously.

Originally Posted by retrograde

Conversely, are they an adequate replacement for things like tofu (soy foods tend to be high in sodium, which is not ideal for weight cutting for fights)? It would be a relief if I didn't have to pack SO much soy in my diet.

If yes, has anyone had any experience with brown rice protein? It kind of appeals to me because whey isn't really vegetarian, and I'm already getting so much freaking soy.

I know I could just experiment and see what happens, but a) I'm likely fighting soonish, and don't want to screw with my weight, and b) it's freaking expensive. So I'm asking you lovely folk.

If anyone's able to offer their sage wisdom, it would be really appreciated.

There you go then some good source of proteins that are not high on soy. You gotta work with the choices you have decided to have.

Also, where on Earth did you get that soy products are high on sodium? Are you actually reading the nutrition labels in your tofu? I actually went to my fridge to check some blocks of tofu I have, and they are all at just 1% of sodium, which is extremely low.

I've also had soy-based veggie burgers that had less than 10%. And soy beans by themselves (and legumes in general) do not have much sodium at all to begin with.

Are you referring to soy sauce? Just get low-sodium soy sauce or better yet, make your own sauce to give some flavor to your tofu (throw a fresh tomato, some ground garlic, some soy sauce, some lemon juice and a bit of cumin or curry spice on a blender and voila.)

Do you know how much sodium you are currently taking in your diet?

You have a lot of concerns, which is fine, but you really need to read the stickies.

The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

I read the stickies aaages ago, but you're right, I should read them again with my new questions in mind.

I'm 24, about 169cm.

Hmmm, now you mention it, I'm not entirely sure what my specific aims are. I want to maintain my current weight and drop about 3kg for fights. Yes, gaining some more muscle would be good too, but I don't feel it's a major concern.

You are eating well already, so all you need to do is make sure you eat regularly (every 3-4 hours) in small portions that more or less fit in your cupped hands.

Yeah, this is probably the hardest thing for me, because my job makes it hard to eat between about 9am and 1pm each day (beyond nuts or fruit). Sometimes I'm not able to get lunch until 2pm, and three hours after that, I start training. Then I often don't get home until 8:30. Possibly I should try to split my lunch into two smaller meals, and bring something to eat immediately after training.

make sure that you take lots of vitamin C (at least 300mg 2 hours before training, plus additional vitamin C in the morning).

Actually, I'd never even thought about vitamin C, but yeah, I really should.

Also, where on Earth did you get that soy products are high on sodium?

Ah sorry, I wrote this wrong: it's the soy sausages (and other similar foods, that are available here, anyway) that are quite high in salt (two soy sausages has 590mg). I'd just eat tofu all the time but, as much as I like it, I just get sick of it if it's every meal.

You refrain from whey protein but you eat yogurt?

I try not to eat dairy foods made with animal rennet. I have vegetarian yogurt. I'm not fastidious about it (I love cheese too much, and they don't make vegetarian versions of some types), but where possible. If whey is the best way to go, I'd eat it, but if other proteins are just as good, I'll go for them instead.