LMNewb wrote:I'm also eagerly awaiting UP5. I fear that I may have to abandon Linux Mint Debian if we can't have more frequent updates (particularly for the ever-vulnerable flash player, as well as web browsers).

Agreed. I mean, what could get possibly wrong with more frequent software updates? Web browsers should follow standards and stay up-to-date and essential software also. If people don't get what they need, they'll abandon the project. Linux is even so pretty much limited compared to the vast majority of apps developed for Windows e.g., so don't push it please, otherwise the userbase of LMDE in particular may rapidly decrease.

Guys, recognize, please, that Debian Testing is now frozen in anticipation of Debian 7. While I understand the need for updated versions of Firefox and other crucial apps, these will come to LMDE in due time. Don't give up on the project! Anyone wanting updated versions of Firefox and Thunderbird need only add the following to their /etc/apt/sources.list

Firefox ain't the matter, that thing became deprecated to me since version 3. It's just a resource hog, as are the rest of Mozilla products. I'm more interested into other software, like GIMP and such, graphics, multimedia, e.g. Chromium, Google released version 20 of their browser, while we have 17 still and are falling back with security as well.

On the other hand I have to agree with the comment above mine, that I finally stumbled upon a stable, working system, unlike Ubuntu, which is a total fail in my eyes. The reason I e.g. migrated to LMDE was I couldn't find a suitable, working system for my laptop.

Mint 12 was ok, probably the best, based on Oneiric if I'm not mistaken, everything worked on it. But since Mint is based on Ubuntu, with 13 they adopted the kernel Ubuntu's using and I, again after a long long while started having serious issues with my Wifi on my laptop.

I don't picture their blacklisting of older hardware, what's the point? Scaring away people? With every new major release something that previously worked superb gets broken? Are they out of their minds?

No wonder many people stick to Windows, which is similar to Debian in terms of "working", even though Windows is buggy and crappy, but at least you install one driver per hardware and it works until the end of time, or at least until you don't do something stupid.

But these kernel updates are driving me mad, seriously! Every six months something gets broken, that is just unacceptable, such approach from Ubuntu's side and sadly, Mint adopts these changes.

LMDE so far, the best thing I had installed on my laptop. Just........ please don't do something stupid like blacklisting old hardware. A stable, working operating system should forever support any hardware in my eyes.

+1 InokiLMDE would just be the most perfect distribution, would it get an UP once every 1-2 month.Then we would be sure to have latest features / bug fixes / security updates, in a controlled, stable and working way.People who recommend to switch to Testing repos don't understand that they break the whole philosophy behind having a controlled environment.I understand this requires a lot of resources from the Mint team, and it makes me sad that LMDE is only Mint's poor brother, and not a priority

What I also noticed is, that e.g. browser addons and plugins stop to work after some time due to the browser no longer supporting them, what greatly affects your productivity. My LastPass stopped to work all of a sudden and imagine this'd happen to someone who has too many passwords, doesn't remember all of them and needs them. I click it, nothing happens, same for translation tools I used to use as a translator.

When I tried to install Google Chrome, I had Flash player issues, it said no Flash player was present. Yea, great. So much for updates. When things stop to work peoeple realise they need to update them.

I know many of you go by the philosophy of "if it ain't broken, don't fix it, or don't break it if you don't know how to fix it", but one of the philosophies behind Linux was also "create a stable and PRODUCTIVE environment", which cannot be achieved, when updates are missing.

The world doesn't stop for anybody.

If it goes on like this it made me think,

Ok, I have a solid, stable, fast, responsive system, which due to lack of updates STOPS WORKING either way! So NO POINT in having a stable system, that you basically can't use anymore for what you used to use it for!

So what's the difference here? Neither is good.

- Ubuntu-based systems for adopting the buggy habbits from Ubuntu- Debian-based systems which lack updates and eventually downgrade to the level of Ubuntu

This is also the thing with so called distro-hoppers like me. Constantly looking for a distro that works and continues to work. See, Windows may be the biggest pile of sh*t out there, but ain't it funny, when that big buggy pile of smelly crap works better than any Linux distro out there? And don't tell me it's because Linux needs time. The thing is, a major enterprise at least has a set of rules which have to be followed, while the downside of the Open-Source community is that as fixes may come quicker, bugs may also, since everyone can contribute and everyone has a different view on things.

I am exhausted of looking for a distro that works. I've tested so many I can't even count them anymore and all of them stop to work over time and I'm really getting tired of it all.

Computers were built to serve people, not people becoming slaves of computers and if you have to spend more time on looking for a stable system rather than focus on your work, it's a pity, a shame and a waste of time.

Well, Inoki, why don't you return to Windows then? LMDE is definitely stable enough and it is an excellent OS. Besides, even Ubuntu and Fedora, let alone Debian, are much better choice than Windows. If you prefer Windows, it's up to you. I only hope that the vast majority of us will remain loyal to GNU/Linux.

mali radnik wrote:Well, Inoki, why don't you return to Windows then? LMDE is definitely stable enough and it is an excellent OS. Besides, even Ubuntu and Fedora, let alone Debian, are much better choice than Windows. If you prefer Windows, it's up to you. I only hope that the vast majority of us will remain loyal to GNU/Linux.

Obviously you didn't get the heck of it all. If you don't have anything constructive to add, then rather remain silent.

Look, Inoki, there are many users on this site who are concerned with the same problem like you, i.e. waiting for the new UP and complaining why is it so slow to come. Just take a look at other topics. But it is a fact that Mint developers are doing the best they can to help us. They deserve the credit. So, please, do not complain on LMDE for this trivial issue and, especially, do not praise Windows here. If you claim that distros are not good for you, than go back to Windows and give us more space here.

mali radnik wrote:Look, Inoki, there are many users on this site who are concerned with the same problem like you, i.e. waiting for the new UP and complaining why is it so slow to come. Just take a look at other topics. But it is a fact that Mint developers are doing the best they can to help us. They deserve the credit. So, please, do not complain on LMDE for this trivial issue and, especially, do not praise Windows here. If you claim that distros are not good for you, than go back to Windows and give us more space here.

Depends on the gravity of the situation. For me, e.g., when even a bloody browser stops working and that's what I mainly use for my work, means heavy impact on productivity. And I would really hate to look for another distro, again. If it was about that, then I'm left without a choice other than go back to Win$hit.

I am trying to raise awareness on the demand for updates, which are a necessity and this topic was meant to push them into that direction with haste!

Unfortunately, stability comes at the price of very little updates. If you look at Squeeze, some of the libraries are so old that I can't get the versions of pithos and pidgin that I want.

So you want a newer system than that. But if you don't want something as unstable as pure Testing, the next best choice is LMDE. The point is that it isn't as unstable as Testing. It should not break your system. While if you look at our Testing thread, testing can.

There's ways to get updates for browsers and such though. One way is through apt-pinning or following the tutorial on this site for updating GIMP to the newest version. It's much more advanced than anything you would have to do with Ubuntu. But like the disclaimer said, LMDE requires a little more knowledge. It's tougher.

Another way is to find repos. Using chrome instead of chromium will get you Google's repo, along with updates. Also, I think you could download the latest chromium right off the Debian Wheezy packages web page. Mozilla offers a backports repo that will get you updates to Iceweasel (an unbranded form of FF). Opera provides a repo to get updates to both their standard and beta versions.

If you NEED an updated browser or some other software, do some research on how to do it. Make a back-up. Then get your hands dirty and do it yourself. Debian doesn't do everything for you like Ubuntu does, which is why many people like it. There are many ways to upgrade specific software, with some more advanced than others. Don't be afraid to make a thread asking how to upgrade them. People here are very friendly and will gladly help.

Have you looked at Sabayon? I actually ran the same installation of Sabayon for three years before I jumped ship to LMDE! Sabayon continued to update without breakage. My only issue with Sabayon was the fact that Gnome 3 updates kept messing up my KDE / GTK integration. In hindsight, a relatively minor gripe. If you want a rock solid Linux distro and you can't hack LMDE because of the way Debian handles releases, then by all means check it out. It's not very productive to sit here and b*tch and moan because LMDE and Mint isn't doing things the way you want. Sorry dude.

Don't be afraid, we're on time UP 3 lasted more than 7 months before UP 4 came, and that's not yet 4 months UP 4 is here Note that while it took so long for UP 4 to hit latest, there are some issues that I quite epically overlooked and have now to compose with, most annoying being IPv6 bug with NM and qBittorrent stack crash (both are already bugfixed on testing a few days after LMDE UP 4 freeze). Also Cinnamon droved me mad, I stick to MATE.

There are important reasons why not playing cow-boy with UPs, they need to be tested thoroughly. Firefox 12 isn't an argument here (and Thunderbird too), since it comes especially compiled by the Mint team in "packages" (remember ? Debian doesn't ship Firefox/Thunderbird because of the branding license, instead shipping Iceweasel/Icedove - and the Iceweasel available with UP4 is v10).Of course the shipped Chromium comes from Debian, I strongly suggest the Mint team not to worry about it because Chromium is a pile of untrackable ever-changing unmilestoned mess of code, that would only bring more or less buggy compiled Chromiums I'm afraid. I know what the Iron team must go through to provide a proper Chromium-based browser to Windows users (and Linux too, beta). Let the Chromium package maintainers from the Debian community deal with it, they know their job (since many of them work at Google, I think). Or just give compiling Chromium yourself a try

Right now Mint Debian is a quite stable beast, not as stable as Debian Stable but fairly stable enough for experienced users. For the most experts of us wanting cutting-edge software I'd suggest to point their APT to testing and pray their local gods everything is ok after each update, for the less experienced people I rather suggest rock-solid corporate-ready distros like Mageia (ships with Firefox ESR). Not based on Debian but on RedHat, and it's desktop-meant (Ubuntu just is now a touchscreen distro, admit it).

Just a word about Flash: burn it with fire. Adobe already has announced they won't further develop the thing for Android, and so I assume it's the same for any Linux-based stuff. Why are we still sticking to this proprietary-binary-browser-plugin-with-direct-disk-write-access-and-a-pile-of-privilege-escalation-vulnerabilities thing that makes any security expert cry out all their tears ? Because people still use it to watch kittens on Youtube instead of activating the HTML 5 format. The web has always been open and patent-free, the web is open and patent-free, and the web should remain open and patent-free. Unless Adobe makes it open-source and royalty-free (or abandon it for working on the free Gnash stuff), don't defend it.

TL;DR: now is a good time to start working on UP5, with a "latest" release in a month or so. Stop crybaby on UP4 and/or LMDE.

have you ever considered to bring each of those issues to the forum, one by one, in appropriate topics?

I'm not using FF, I dumped that thing since version 3. I'm using Chromium build 17, LastPass 2.0.8 stopped working all of a sudden. Chrome I tried to install latest from Google's website .deb package for Debian, mint-flashplugin-11 is installed on system. Should I perhaps try to install Chrome with flashplayer-nonfree?