If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Thanks Julie - the last thing we want to do is breed undersized dogs. As it is they (GSPs) are getting too small in the field bred strains and can be too large in the show dogs. Trying to maintain the standard and not split the breed is difficult. The gene was only discovered in 2007 so guess it will be a while before modes of inheritance are discovered.

Thanks Julie - the last thing we want to do is breed undersized dogs. As it is they (GSPs) are getting too small in the field bred strains and can be too large in the show dogs. Trying to maintain the standard and not split the breed is difficult. The gene was only discovered in 2007 so guess it will be a while before modes of inheritance are discovered.

Ain't that the truth. Some of the field lines of GSP's look like Smooth Haired Fox Terriers, some barely 40lbs. Seeing Setters of around 35lbs is becoming quite common.

I don't think one should intentionally breed undersized dogs, but in the same breath I don't think size should really matter. You need to look at working ability first and foremost. That's why I went with a working cocker - smaller size that can still perform the job I need it to. Will he be as quick to retrieve a large goose as a lab? Probably not - but you better believe he'll do it. As far as GSPs and setters go - as long as their bird finding ability is maintained I don't see how a smaller size could be a hindrance unless they are supposed to be big running dogs hunted from horseback. Bigger is not always better, and that seems to be the mindset with show dogs... make em bigger. A lot of times in the field the smaller, slimmer dog will trump a big, strong dog when it comes to endurance. All comes down to what you need/want in a dog.

I don't think one should intentionally breed undersized dogs, but in the same breath I don't think size should really matter. You need to look at working ability first and foremost. That's why I went with a working cocker - smaller size that can still perform the job I need it to. Will he be as quick to retrieve a large goose as a lab? Probably not - but you better believe he'll do it. As far as GSPs and setters go - as long as their bird finding ability is maintained I don't see how a smaller size could be a hindrance unless they are supposed to be big running dogs hunted from horseback. Bigger is not always better, and that seems to be the mindset with show dogs... make em bigger. A lot of times in the field the smaller, slimmer dog will trump a big, strong dog when it comes to endurance. All comes down to what you need/want in a dog.

There are breed standards for a reason. Your thinking can be taken to extremes like pointer breeders that knowingly breed EP's with serious bite problems simply because they are good bird dogs. If a person can't breed within the standard then they should find something else to do.

Boy have I got the dog for you guys! On the right is my "mini Peake", Tanzy: 50 lbs, 22", although actually she is right within the (low end) of breed standard. And, she is silver...LOL. Pic. of her with my male (who is at the upper end of the standard, 25")Attachment 15506

Going back a little, Hans Kuck had a dog, Nanuk of Cheslang, CM that was smaller than most chessies. He was also a very good dog that Eloise tried to buy. Ran like a Lab .

The gene was only discovered in 2007 so guess it will be a while before modes of inheritance are discovered.

I'm not familiar with any research about a "size" gene; not doubting there is one, though given the wide range of canine sizes. Do you have any info. you could link to about it? Thinking the lack of info. about it in the U.S. is probably a good thing, I can just see the mini doodle and canoe Lab breeders licking their chops over genetically engineering their puppy mills so everyone can own Pocket Pets....((((gag))))

I just googled it and found that a study had been done on Portugese Water Dogs (probably in the US) and there were various extracts on research presumably trying to link it into humans. Sorry I can't remember exactly what the thread was!

I'm not familiar with any research about a "size" gene; not doubting there is one, though given the wide range of canine sizes. Do you have any info. you could link to about it? Thinking the lack of info. about it in the U.S. is probably a good thing, I can just see the mini doodle and canoe Lab breeders licking their chops over genetically engineering their puppy mills so everyone can own Pocket Pets....((((gag))))

Usually if you breed like to like you get more like. This is what I've seen with most of the smaller labs, if you breed them to another small lab you get smaller labs. That said the biggest lab; I'm aware of, came from normal sized parents, and his daughter (normal size) produced one of the smallest labs I've seen, when bred to another normal sized male. So I'd guess that different sizes can just pop-up from time to time.

"They's Just DAWGS"
"Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
"I train dogs, Not papers"