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I won't start pulling out stats either, that would just embarrass you guys.

How so? Everyone knows Eli's completion percentage was bad. I'm hoping and I think it will improve this year but that isn't the point. Bledsoe's completion percentage was a lot better, but if that doesn't turn into more wins, more TDs, more yards, and less interceptions, then does it really matter?

Oh, it goes much deeper than comp%. Everyone likes to point out his impressive totals of 3600+ yards and 24 TDs and tout them to high heaven, but (as I said in an earlier post) he had more pass attempts than any other QB with a .500 or better team. His per attempt numbers are pretty mediocre at their best. Also, if you want to get into more sophisticated metrics (like the KC Joyner variety) then it gets a lot more ugly. For example, he was near the top of the league in near Ints, as well as in total Ints, and he didn't have a porous line that allowed oodles of pressure to cause them, either.

But that's all I'm saying. Its not as if I am calling Eli a horrible QB. He has some strengths already that only a gifted few others have, and those have shown up big time on occasion. And you can't use the wins/losses as a fair barometer yet, because that would bring Kyle Orton and Byron Leftwich/David Garrard into the conversation. You guys did have somewhat of a cream puff schedule, that included 9 home games (an advantage that could have made up the difference between winning the division and possibly missing the playoffs), games against the Saints, Vikings (which you somehow found a way to lose), two games against the Eagles after they had fallen apart, and the entirety of the NFC West. If you want to point to one player as the reason for your winning, it wouldn't be Manning. In fact, he would probably be 4th or 5th at the highest.

Originally posted by 21ST

He was protecting his self

Originally posted by tjsunstein

From what? His leg?

Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck

That leg has had it out for him since day 1.

"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

Comment

I won't start pulling out stats either, that would just embarrass you guys.

How so? Everyone knows Eli's completion percentage was bad. I'm hoping and I think it will improve this year but that isn't the point. Bledsoe's completion percentage was a lot better, but if that doesn't turn into more wins, more TDs, more yards, and less interceptions, then does it really matter?

Oh, it goes much deeper than comp%. Everyone likes to point out his impressive totals of 3600+ yards and 24 TDs and tout them to high heaven, but (as I said in an earlier post) he had more pass attempts than any other QB with a .500 or better team. His per attempt numbers are pretty mediocre at their best. Also, if you want to get into more sophisticated metrics (like the KC Joyner variety) then it gets a lot more ugly. For example, he was near the top of the league in near Ints, as well as in total Ints, and he didn't have a porous line that allowed oodles of pressure to cause them, either.

But that's all I'm saying. Its not as if I am calling Eli a horrible QB. He has some strengths already that only a gifted few others have, and those have shown up big time on occasion. And you can't use the wins/losses as a fair barometer yet, because that would bring Kyle Orton and Byron Leftwich/David Garrard into the conversation. You guys did have somewhat of a cream puff schedule, that included 9 home games (an advantage that could have made up the difference between winning the division and possibly missing the playoffs), games against the Saints, Vikings (which you somehow found a way to lose), two games against the Eagles after they had fallen apart, and the entirety of the NFC West. If you want to point to one player as the reason for your winning, it wouldn't be Manning. In fact, he would probably be 4th or 5th at the highest.

So the fact that he threw the ball so many times negates his total yards and TDs but not his INTs? Yup, a Cowboys fan.

Comment

I won't start pulling out stats either, that would just embarrass you guys.

How so? Everyone knows Eli's completion percentage was bad. I'm hoping and I think it will improve this year but that isn't the point. Bledsoe's completion percentage was a lot better, but if that doesn't turn into more wins, more TDs, more yards, and less interceptions, then does it really matter?

Oh, it goes much deeper than comp%. Everyone likes to point out his impressive totals of 3600+ yards and 24 TDs and tout them to high heaven, but (as I said in an earlier post) he had more pass attempts than any other QB with a .500 or better team. His per attempt numbers are pretty mediocre at their best. Also, if you want to get into more sophisticated metrics (like the KC Joyner variety) then it gets a lot more ugly. For example, he was near the top of the league in near Ints, as well as in total Ints, and he didn't have a porous line that allowed oodles of pressure to cause them, either.

But that's all I'm saying. Its not as if I am calling Eli a horrible QB. He has some strengths already that only a gifted few others have, and those have shown up big time on occasion. And you can't use the wins/losses as a fair barometer yet, because that would bring Kyle Orton and Byron Leftwich/David Garrard into the conversation. You guys did have somewhat of a cream puff schedule, that included 9 home games (an advantage that could have made up the difference between winning the division and possibly missing the playoffs), games against the Saints, Vikings (which you somehow found a way to lose), two games against the Eagles after they had fallen apart, and the entirety of the NFC West. If you want to point to one player as the reason for your winning, it wouldn't be Manning. In fact, he would probably be 4th or 5th at the highest.

So the fact that he threw the ball so many times negates his total yards and TDs but not his INTs? Yup, a Cowboys fan.

Good one.

His Int% was still way down the list. You could say that it does mitigate his Int totals a fair amount. I would agree with that, but then you must also remember that he had a good O Line who weren't responsible for many, if any of his Ints, and that he also was close to the top of the league in near interceptions (per KC Joyner), which means that he was the beneficiary of a lot of shody DB play.

Originally posted by 21ST

He was protecting his self

Originally posted by tjsunstein

From what? His leg?

Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck

That leg has had it out for him since day 1.

"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

Comment

I like New York and Washington as 1 & 2, I just don't know which order I like them in. I am very surprised Dallas is winning this. They have the worst starting RB, worst OL, 3rd QB, and almost no depth at WR. Bledsoe is 3rd of the 4 QB in the NFC East. No team has a perfect offense, but Dallas has the worst. If they win the NFC East, it'll be because of their defense, not their offense.

Comment

Eli is a good QB, IMO he's has more talent than Bledsoe and is going to have a better career. Tiki is more than twice the RB as Julius Jones and Marion Barber both. The Giants have a pretty solid OL, whereas Dallas has a BAD OL. The receivers are definitely better in Dallas, but that's about it. NY has the best offensive unit in the NFC East

Comment

Eli is a good QB, IMO he's has more talent than Bledsoe and is going to have a better career. Tiki is more than twice the RB as Julius Jones and Marion Barber both. The Giants have a pretty solid OL, whereas Dallas has a BAD OL. The receivers are definitely better in Dallas, but that's about it. NY has the best offensive unit in the NFC East

alright....now read the previous 2 posts and tell me only Giants fans view Eli as a better QB than Bledsoe.

I won't start pulling out stats either, that would just embarrass you guys.

How so? Everyone knows Eli's completion percentage was bad. I'm hoping and I think it will improve this year but that isn't the point. Bledsoe's completion percentage was a lot better, but if that doesn't turn into more wins, more TDs, more yards, and less interceptions, then does it really matter?

Oh, it goes much deeper than comp%. Everyone likes to point out his impressive totals of 3600+ yards and 24 TDs and tout them to high heaven, but (as I said in an earlier post) he had more pass attempts than any other QB with a .500 or better team. His per attempt numbers are pretty mediocre at their best. Also, if you want to get into more sophisticated metrics (like the KC Joyner variety) then it gets a lot more ugly. For example, he was near the top of the league in near Ints, as well as in total Ints, and he didn't have a porous line that allowed oodles of pressure to cause them, either.

But that's all I'm saying. Its not as if I am calling Eli a horrible QB. He has some strengths already that only a gifted few others have, and those have shown up big time on occasion. And you can't use the wins/losses as a fair barometer yet, because that would bring Kyle Orton and Byron Leftwich/David Garrard into the conversation. You guys did have somewhat of a cream puff schedule, that included 9 home games (an advantage that could have made up the difference between winning the division and possibly missing the playoffs), games against the Saints, Vikings (which you somehow found a way to lose), two games against the Eagles after they had fallen apart, and the entirety of the NFC West. If you want to point to one player as the reason for your winning, it wouldn't be Manning. In fact, he would probably be 4th or 5th at the highest.

So the fact that he threw the ball so many times negates his total yards and TDs but not his INTs? Yup, a Cowboys fan.

Good one.

His Int% was still way down the list. You could say that it does mitigate his Int totals a fair amount. I would agree with that, but then you must also remember that he had a good O Line who weren't responsible for many, if any of his Ints, and that he also was close to the top of the league in near interceptions (per KC Joyner), which means that he was the beneficiary of a lot of shody DB play.

Ok.

Eli Manning threw one INT for every 33 pass attempts

Drew Bledsoe threw one INT for every 29 pass attempts

Drew Bledsoe fumbled 17 times

Eli Manning fumbled 9 times

Some of that can be blamed on the offensive lines but don't try to convince anyone the Giants offensive line is something to write home about. They are solid at both G spots, but the tackles are inconsistent and C is average at best.

I won't start pulling out stats either, that would just embarrass you guys.

How so? Everyone knows Eli's completion percentage was bad. I'm hoping and I think it will improve this year but that isn't the point. Bledsoe's completion percentage was a lot better, but if that doesn't turn into more wins, more TDs, more yards, and less interceptions, then does it really matter?

Oh, it goes much deeper than comp%. Everyone likes to point out his impressive totals of 3600+ yards and 24 TDs and tout them to high heaven, but (as I said in an earlier post) he had more pass attempts than any other QB with a .500 or better team. His per attempt numbers are pretty mediocre at their best. Also, if you want to get into more sophisticated metrics (like the KC Joyner variety) then it gets a lot more ugly. For example, he was near the top of the league in near Ints, as well as in total Ints, and he didn't have a porous line that allowed oodles of pressure to cause them, either.

But that's all I'm saying. Its not as if I am calling Eli a horrible QB. He has some strengths already that only a gifted few others have, and those have shown up big time on occasion. And you can't use the wins/losses as a fair barometer yet, because that would bring Kyle Orton and Byron Leftwich/David Garrard into the conversation. You guys did have somewhat of a cream puff schedule, that included 9 home games (an advantage that could have made up the difference between winning the division and possibly missing the playoffs), games against the Saints, Vikings (which you somehow found a way to lose), two games against the Eagles after they had fallen apart, and the entirety of the NFC West. If you want to point to one player as the reason for your winning, it wouldn't be Manning. In fact, he would probably be 4th or 5th at the highest.

So the fact that he threw the ball so many times negates his total yards and TDs but not his INTs? Yup, a Cowboys fan.

Good one.

His Int% was still way down the list. You could say that it does mitigate his Int totals a fair amount. I would agree with that, but then you must also remember that he had a good O Line who weren't responsible for many, if any of his Ints, and that he also was close to the top of the league in near interceptions (per KC Joyner), which means that he was the beneficiary of a lot of shody DB play.

Ok.

Eli Manning threw one INT for every 33 pass attempts

Drew Bledsoe threw one INT for every 29 pass attempts

Drew Bledsoe fumbled 17 times

Eli Manning fumbled 9 times

Some of that can be blamed on the offensive lines but don't try to convince anyone the Giants offensive line is something to write home about. They are solid at both G spots, but the tackles are inconsistent and C is average at best.

And that right there should invalidate the declaration that Bledsoe is a MUCH better decision maker than Eli Manning. The proof is in the pudidng, and Eli threw less INT per pass attempt than Bledsoe. Im not saying Bledsoe is bad, he has actually become an underrated qb, but he is being overrated by Cowboys fans. Couple this with the fact that Eli will only improve this year, and Bledsoe who has already peaked will probably stay the same, I'll take Eli this year over Bledsoe no questions asked.

Us Giants fans are always getting the homer finger pointed at us, but Id like to point out that we are not the only ones. Yes, we have some homerism, we evaluate Eli with some homerism, but we're not the only ones.

99% of the Dallas fans on here who constantly defend TO would not do that if he wasn't a Cowboy, and we all know this. If TO wasn't a Cowboy, cowboy fans would be ripping him with the rest of us. That shows homerism on their part. Making Bledsoe out to be in the same category as Matt Hasselbeck is homerism too. He's an accurate qb who's become underrated, but he is not on that level, lets be real with it. His immobility just plain sucks, I personally despise immobile qbs and Bledsoe is one of them. If you want to make excuses for why Bledsoe fell off the 2nd half of the season, I got plenty of reasons to say the same thing for Eli so that argument is a wash.

The truth is, Bledsoe only had completion % over Eli. Eli threw more TDs/pass attempt, less INTs/pass attempt, more yards and led his team to the playoffs. All in his 1st year as a starter. Key emphasis on that last part. Now Im personally projecting both of them to have great years, but to say Eli is far off from Bledsoe is not true.

I won't start pulling out stats either, that would just embarrass you guys.

How so? Everyone knows Eli's completion percentage was bad. I'm hoping and I think it will improve this year but that isn't the point. Bledsoe's completion percentage was a lot better, but if that doesn't turn into more wins, more TDs, more yards, and less interceptions, then does it really matter?

Oh, it goes much deeper than comp%. Everyone likes to point out his impressive totals of 3600+ yards and 24 TDs and tout them to high heaven, but (as I said in an earlier post) he had more pass attempts than any other QB with a .500 or better team. His per attempt numbers are pretty mediocre at their best. Also, if you want to get into more sophisticated metrics (like the KC Joyner variety) then it gets a lot more ugly. For example, he was near the top of the league in near Ints, as well as in total Ints, and he didn't have a porous line that allowed oodles of pressure to cause them, either.

But that's all I'm saying. Its not as if I am calling Eli a horrible QB. He has some strengths already that only a gifted few others have, and those have shown up big time on occasion. And you can't use the wins/losses as a fair barometer yet, because that would bring Kyle Orton and Byron Leftwich/David Garrard into the conversation. You guys did have somewhat of a cream puff schedule, that included 9 home games (an advantage that could have made up the difference between winning the division and possibly missing the playoffs), games against the Saints, Vikings (which you somehow found a way to lose), two games against the Eagles after they had fallen apart, and the entirety of the NFC West. If you want to point to one player as the reason for your winning, it wouldn't be Manning. In fact, he would probably be 4th or 5th at the highest.

So the fact that he threw the ball so many times negates his total yards and TDs but not his INTs? Yup, a Cowboys fan.

Good one.

His Int% was still way down the list. You could say that it does mitigate his Int totals a fair amount. I would agree with that, but then you must also remember that he had a good O Line who weren't responsible for many, if any of his Ints, and that he also was close to the top of the league in near interceptions (per KC Joyner), which means that he was the beneficiary of a lot of shody DB play.

Ok.

Eli Manning threw one INT for every 33 pass attempts

Drew Bledsoe threw one INT for every 29 pass attempts

Drew Bledsoe fumbled 17 times

Eli Manning fumbled 9 times

Some of that can be blamed on the offensive lines but don't try to convince anyone the Giants offensive line is something to write home about. They are solid at both G spots, but the tackles are inconsistent and C is average at best.

And that right there should invalidate the declaration that Bledsoe is a MUCH better decision maker than Eli Manning. The proof is in the pudidng, and Eli threw less INT per pass attempt than Bledsoe. Im not saying Bledsoe is bad, he has actually become an underrated qb, but he is being overrated by Cowboys fans. Couple this with the fact that Eli will only improve this year, and Bledsoe who has already peaked will probably stay the same, I'll take Eli this year over Bledsoe no questions asked.

Us Giants fans are always getting the homer finger pointed at us, but Id like to point out that we are not the only ones. Yes, we have some homerism, we evaluate Eli with some homerism, but we're not the only ones.

99% of the Dallas fans on here who constantly defend TO would not do that if he wasn't a Cowboy, and we all know this. If TO wasn't a Cowboy, cowboy fans would be ripping him with the rest of us. That shows homerism on their part. Making Bledsoe out to be in the same category as Matt Hasselbeck is homerism too. He's an accurate qb who's become underrated, but he is not on that level, lets be real with it. His immobility just plain sucks, I personally despise immobile qbs and Bledsoe is one of them. If you want to make excuses for why Bledsoe fell off the 2nd half of the season, I got plenty of reasons to say the same thing for Eli so that argument is a wash.

The truth is, Bledsoe only had completion % over Eli. Eli threw more TDs/pass attempt, less INTs/pass attempt, more yards and led his team to the playoffs. All in his 1st year as a starter. Key emphasis on that last part. Now Im personally projecting both of them to have great years, but to say Eli is far off from Bledsoe is not true.

C'mon, blue, I expect more from you. Those other homers I expected to throw out this drivel, but I sure didn't expect it from you. The bolded statement is not true. So, imho, at the very least the int% and TD% cancel one another out. Bledsoe's TD% was 4.6, Eli Manning's was 4.3. While Bledsoe's Int% was 3.4 compared to 3.1 for Eli. The yards also go to Bledsoe, as he had a MUCH better ypa average of 7.29 compared to Eli's very pedestrian 6.75. Also, before Flozell got hurt Bledsoe was in the top 3 in the league in ypa at 8.48. So that is not an argument you can use.

However, I would like to clarify something, my last few posts on this thread were not comparing Eli to Bledsoe, but rather Eli to the rest of the league. So I used some points that would have muddied the waters if you thought I was arguing the Bledsoe angle, please take that into consideration.

Also, you totally discount the impact that Bledsoe's line had on him as a passer. Take the second Washington game, for instance. He had two Int's in that game that were solely the fault of the OLine. The first was supposed to be a quick slant to the left side, which called for Torrin Tucker to cut his man off the snap. Well, he lunged and completely missed the block, barely hitting the DE in the ankles, which results in the DE being right in the passing lane. This is not a difficult block to execute, it happens two or three dozen times in every ball game, with the blocker coming out on top probably 90% of the time. So the DE knocks the ball down, right? Wrong. Somehow he tips it up into the air for an easy, easy, Int. Is that Bledsoe's fault? Absolutely not. He had to make a quick pass in order for the play to work, and was forced to trust that his teammate would execute his assignment. There is no way you can fault him for that. That happened twice that game. I could go on all day about this.

It is no coincedence that Bledsoe's Int total after 6 games was 4, or 2.0%, and in the last 10 his total was 13, or 4.3%. You guys want to turn a blind eye to this argument, because it substantially discounts the validity of your own. But it's true, there is no way around it. Drew Bledsoe was the best QB in the NFC last year in the first six games. It wasn't even close. Imagine, if you can, what would happen to Hasselbeck if Walter Jones went down. That is the kind of impact that Flozell's injury had on the offense. I know it's not convenient, but it is true.

Again, just let me state that Eli has a lot of potential, and might eventually be up there with the best in the league, but with what he has proven at this point in time, only a fan would argue that he is any more than a young QB with a lot of ability. Which is what you guys are, and it stands to reason that you would "take Eli over Bledsoe no questions asked". You believe in him because you have to, and I have no problem with that. Just don't go around say he is this and he is that. He may be eventually, but not right now.

Originally posted by 21ST

He was protecting his self

Originally posted by tjsunstein

From what? His leg?

Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck

That leg has had it out for him since day 1.

"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

Comment

Drew Bledsoe was the best QB in the NFC last year in the first six games

Actually him and Eli looked pretty identical through 6 games. Again they had two extremely similar seasons. The fact that Eli is 10 years younger is the big difference, and the reason why people would rather have Eli over Drew.