Hacker groups LulzSec and Anonymous have made their point clear: they can infiltrate pretty much any government/corporate system they choose, and can cause plenty of chaos while doing so. In 2011 alone, Sony, Fox.com, PBS, NATO, Pron.com, the Arizona Police Department, the CIA, News Corp., Bank of America and many more were hacked by the two groups.

Just this week, the FBI arrested 16 alleged members who were associated with some of the cyber attacks. Fourteen were responsible for the attack against PayPal last December, while the fifteenth person was arrested on charges associated with the intrusion of computer systems at InfraGard and the sixteenth had allegedly downloaded thousands of documents related to AT&T's LTE broadband network and 4G data network. Those arrested ranged from ages 20 to 42, and were located in Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, California, Florida, Massachusetts, New Mexico, Nevada, Washington D.C. and Ohio.

When these arrests were made, the FBI's Deputy Assistant Director Steven Chabinsky told NPR that this victory for the FBI sends "a message that chaos on the Internet is unacceptable." Hackers responded with the following message:

We are not scared any more. Your threats to arrest us are meaningless to us as you cannot arrest an idea. Any attempt to do so will make your citizens more angry until they will roar in one gigantic choir. It is our mission to help these people and there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- you can possibly do to make us stop.

The message didn't end there. Anonymous also added that governments and corporations are the real enemy, and even listed why.

Now let us be clear here, Mr. Chabinsky, while we understand that you and your colleagues may find breaking into websites unacceptable, let us tell you what WE find unacceptable:

Governments lying to their citizens and inducing fear and terror to keep them in control by dismantling their freedom piece by piece.

Corporations aiding and conspiring with said governments while taking advantage at the same time by collecting billions of funds for federal contracts we all know they can't fulfill.

Lobby conglomerates who only follow their agenda to push the profits higher, while at the same time being deeply involved in governments around the world with the only goal to infiltrate and corrupt them enough so the status quo will never change.

Chabinsky noted in the NPR interview that LulzSec and Anonymous' activities, no matter the reason, could put citizens in danger of terrorists or organized crime groups caught a glimpse of the government documents the hacker groups leak online.

"There has not been a large-scale trend toward using hacking to actually destroy websites, [but] that could be appealing to both criminals or terrorists," said Chabinsky. "That's where 'hacktivism,' even if currently viewed by some as a nuisance, shows the potential to be destabilizing."

LulzSec tweeted a similar message to Anonymous' on July 21, with a quirky twist:

"Arresting people won't stop us, FBI," said LulzSec's tweet. "We will only cease fire when you all wear shoes on your heads. That's the only way this is ending."

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You may be underestimating both the abilities and the motivations of these "kids". We, their parents, sold out their future; how dare we stand in judgement of their efforts to reclaim it? It appears these smart, ambitious youth are willing to fight to recover what we so cavalierly surrendered. They're doing it on their home turf - the internet. I think someone is nervous and it is not the hactivists.

They are going about it all wrong though. They are damaging innocent people in the name of an "ideal" or "belief." This has never been the best course of action (other than the carpet-bombing of Germany which helped to end the holocaust we were mostly unaware of at the time, as well as the occupation of Europe).

The difference here though is, unlike the allies who had strong industrial and military might--the hackers have nothing but lube, thermoses and computers to hide behind. They could learn a lot from Francis Marion. They are drawing far too much attention to themselves at this point.

It is one thing to fight the battle, it is another to live to tell about it. Being locked up in prison is no way to serve the cause.

I'm just wandering when the ransoming of data they've stolen will start.When you don't care who you're hurting in your crusade sooner or later you lose your original, good or bad, and start taking whatever you want and to heck with the consequences.

Those who created the problems now judge the reactions of those who will pay the price for them. Our kids' future is bankrupt; their freedoms squandered. Through apathy, greed, laziness and ignorance, we caused their plight. Who can blame them if they don't look to us for advice? We obviously have none to give. It's their fight now. Instead of judging their methods, perhaps we should don Guy Fawkes masks in support of them?

I don't disagree one bit about their intent but their actions is little to be desire now. Peons rarely are the culprit in corrupt institutions and organizations so leaking their info or whatever is pointless and dangerous. Ultimately though, I 50/50 because I would have chosen to unravel the corruption with evidence rather than what they've been doing.

Their ideas and results are mostly empty though. It is very hard spread an idea when the benefits are abstract and not tangible. It is not like going against paying taxes, the ability to read any book, or vote.

In my opinion it is a lot posturing by youths.

And the collateral damage seems very high for the results they are achieving.

quote: It appears these smart, ambitious youth are willing to fight to recover what we so cavalierly surrendered. They're doing it on their home turf - the internet.

More like rebellious, young who see the world in black and white. They really like to point out the injustice in the world, without putting any ideas forward to correcting them. In the meantime their "war" will harm as many people as the evil corporations they fight, becoming evil themselves.

Really what they want is Anarchy, because they have no discipline, and think that they can change the world through their computers, while the real world will hunt them down. The hunt will really take off when it can be proved that people lost their lives due to these hackers. It is also when we will all have to pay for what they have done...

And your suggestion(s) to them would be.....? They know there is a global elite playing both ends against the middle and fueling bickering amongst the masses (Rebublican v. Democrat; Christian v. Muslin; black v. white; Arab v. Israeli; ad nauseum). They've seen how effective our "vote the scoundrels out" strategy has proven to be. They know their votes don't count and their voices aren't heard, yet they're unwilling to accept the status quo. They're staging electronic sit-ins (DDOS attacks) and letting the powers-that-be know that what is done in darkness can be brought to light (hacking information) What advice to you have for them that will be more effective than what they're doing?

quote: letting the powers-that-be know that what is done in darkness can be brought to light (hacking information) What advice to you have for them that will be more effective than what they're doing?

Have you ever been to Washington DC? Just drove around the area downtown and the suburbs?

I have, and you know what I noticed? Hundreds of buildings, filled with 10's of thousands of Federal Government employees, none of them elected, very few appointed, and hardly any that care about some group of hackers. Short of complete and violent revolution, those people that work there will not leave and will not be influenced by people on the internet.

That is why they will never get anywhere with the government, they may be an annoyance, but not the cause for change, at least not the change that they want. Most of them don't really realize how good they have it (at least the ones in this country).

It is easy to be tough when you are hiding behind a connection that you think can't be traced, but you will never make a difference. My advice, if they feel that strongly, and they think that voting is a waste of time, grab a gun and try to start a revolution. Heaven knows that it is probably time for one here in this country.

You are correct in regards to the government - at least from a popular sense. The people that will be fighting them don't care as much, but the people who do care are the ones they will target. Not that the government is worth fighting.

Its the GEs of our time and in the future that we have to worry about. 1984 is dead. Big brother is not a nameless government, but the cartel of powerhouse corporations who buy policy that we have to worry about.

The only difference between corporations like that and drug lords from South America is that the companies aren't gunning down people with bullets but with Telecom, computers, bills, runarounds etc etc.

Guns are useless today. Its somewhat amusing (if war can be amusing) that we still fight battles with guns and armor. Nuclear, biological, and technological sabotage are far more effective today at rendering the other side useless. The latter of course, presupposes the other side to have been useful to begin with.

quote: Its the GEs of our time and in the future that we have to worry about. 1984 is dead. Big brother is not a nameless government, but the cartel of powerhouse corporations who buy policy that we have to worry about.

Can't argue with you on that, but I will add that many of the people who are in the large corporations are the same people that used to be in government, so much so that it becomes hard to see where the line between the two should be drawn. This is where the corruption comes from IMO.

I do not want to see revolution here, but it may be coming via the two party system. Look at the election maps and see the division between the red and blue and how much strife is created. That is where it will start.

quote: Look at the election maps and see the division between the red and blue and how much strife is created. That is where it will start.

Agree completely. Its already begun. That official from SoCal suggested it. It wouldn't work and he's an idiot if he thought it would. No tax base with the 13 poorest counties in the state and he thinks he'll even be able to pay for water from NoCal aside from all other government responsibilities?

But I digress. He wanted it on party lines because he couldn't stand the other side. One effect of the internet is letting people know how many others of like-mind there are out there. That of course increases one's confidence and conviction and perhaps it isn't the previous generation who taught us black and white but rather a simple effect of the technologies it invented.

Either way, things are going to change drastically in the next few decades. And maybe thats a good thing. Every system of organization requires a reset button eventually.

Instead of doing illegal hacking to gain attention to their cause, these "youth" could be putting their advanced skills to use developing informational websites and events to promote their cause, if they truly have a cause worth pursuing. If I want to point out the injustices of murder, I would be foolish to do it by stealing. If I wanted to point out the injustice of slavery, I would be foolish to use rape to do it. When you use terror or other illegal means to promote your cause, no matter how just it may be, you are defeating your purpose and turning away the very people you want to influence.

Some would point out something like the original Tea Party in the 1700's as using something illegal to get a point across. But if you study the details of that event you will find that all the tea dumped into the harbor was then paid for, as well as any damage that might have occurred because of it. Paid for by the very people who were involved that is. Also the group turned in one member who took some of the tea home with him for theft, so they were a very well self policing group also. A civil protest for a cause will always gain better support than a malicious one, especially if the malicious one endangers innocent bystanders.

quote: these "youth" could be putting their advanced skills to use developing informational websites and events to promote their cause

And about 10 people would actually read it. In order to gain attention on the internet, you need to have significant shock value. Think wikileaks. Thats the last one I can think of that came out of no where and became popular enough to change how people thought. And wikileaks and Lulzsec are on completely two different playing fields. One did at out of spite for fame and money, the other seems to actually have a cause and are playing their cards far more responsibly.

And the entire revolution, by definition was illegal. Lexington and Concord was illegal. Thomas Paine was illegal. Every shot fired during the revolution was illegal. It was made legal when we won because we got to write the history books.

Point and change is not made by those who play the rules. Those who do are only good at perpetuating the norm. People will get hurt. Its war.

I think you are giving them WAY too much credit. I'm all for revolutions and standing up to the evil governments and corporations, but that's just not what is happening here. They aren't smart enough. This is a bunch of moronic little no life loser nerds, who are hacking stuff because that is the only skill they every bothered to learn in their pathetic excuses for lives, and they have no social conscience because they are anti social sociopathic losers. They are rebels without a brain, causing harm and financial loss to pensioners etc.. They deserve no defence from you or from anyone else, they need some years in prison to hopefully give them a healthy dose of reality and time to think about their actions.

Like I said, I'm all for forcefully insisting the desire for change, but they should do it another way, get in to politics, demonstrate and arrange marches, start a punk band, do anything but don't do something that harms other people or you are as bad as them.

quote: More like rebellious, young who see the world in black and white.

Do you have any idea how ironic that statement is? As AbbieNormal pointed out: Repblican vs democrat, Muslim vs Christian etc etc. The two primary parties in our country are diametrically opposed to each other; they've never been further in ideology and closer in contempt for each other since the civil war. Everything your generation has taught is about as black and white as you can get.

You're also not looking at their effort in color. You see it as cause and little effect. I don't think you realize the significance of their action. They are simply proving at this point that no matter what firewalls, encryptions or activity alarms anyone can set, there's always a way in. And if you truly want companies/governments to start behaving (or at least not leaving a record wake of poor behavior), you need them to fear doing so. Companies may fall for this simply by exposing things to the public. The masses have all the power in the end and it is folly for those individuals who think they have "power" to forget it. They are teaching a lesson of responsibility.

Not their problem you're looking at it so one dimensionally - or black and white.

quote: And if you truly want companies/governments to start behaving (or at least not leaving a record wake of poor behavior), you need them to fear doing so.

LOL

Wow, do you really think that most governments care what it's citizens think? Sure they don't want to have info come out that may make them look bad, but in the end, they wont care, and the idiots in their own districts will vote them in again.

This may offend some people here, I know it seemed to last time I said it, but the only way to change the government of most countries and get rid of the corruption is at the end of a gun....That includes the US IMO.

Really, where do all you feel good, think I can change the world via a keyboard people come from anyhow? Think that the people in Libya or Egypt are pushing for their rights with DDOS attacks? Think that would have been a lesson for all of us over here, but I guess not.

Get used to the fact that the Human race is mean, ugly and generally not aesthetically pleasing.

I actually started my argument with how the government won't care. They people in the government who would are individuals who fear for their own job and power hence why congress is at its current impasse. Whichever side budges will lose their job come next election.

The world is ugly. What made you think that I thought otherwise? But guns are useless because people dying doesn't change anything. You can't remove corruption with a gun. People die. Big deal. As long as one person in this world hates another there will be corruption. And since hate is a human trait, well, you get the idea.

That's why Shakespeare said the pen is mightier than the sword. The keyboard is mightier than a gun because the keyboard can actually fire that gun remotely. The matrix exists and everything is plugged in.

You think that change can be effected and corruption stopped or lessened at least via "the pen". I understand because I used to think that way as well.

I have come to the place where I think that will never happen. We have seen instances of corruption at the highest levels swept under the rug, and/or explained away only to be lost in the morass of the two party system.

The system needs to be overhauled and I think that the only way that will ever happen is if the people rise up and forcefully remove all the people in DC. Not just the elected politicians, but all of the government bureaucracy and the hundreds of thousands of people that work there, they all need to go home. Then people that can be trusted can reform the governemnt that will again serve the people and not the politicians/corporations.

It would be painful all around.

It would start out peaceful, but it would get ugly as politicians realized what was happening. Question is, would our military support the politicians or people?

quote: Really, where do all you feel good, think I can change the world via a keyboard people come from anyhow? Think that the people in Libya or Egypt are pushing for their rights with DDOS attacks? Think that would have been a lesson for all of us over here, but I guess not.

Anonymous went after the Egyptian government for internet censorship; the government responded by shutting down the internet and the people took to the streets. These revolutions start at the keyboard.

So the Egyptian government shut down the internet, did Anonymous members go to the street and risk their lives? Don't think so, and you are giving them way to much credit.

I think that the President of Egypt that had been in office for what 21 years and his policies had something to do with it. The revolution was going to happen, there really is no proof that Anonymous had anything to do with starting it.

Exactly, they have my blessings. Most parents are struggling to make ends meet and were naive at what was happening. I knew and was told to take my Tin Foil Hat off. I support them with acknowledgement and writing.People have to remember these kids are not all from the same club, a few are doing this on their own and all of them can't be lumped together as the authorities would like the public to think. I can't believe that the conspiracy theorists views are now emanating from the authorities. The authorities are now going into high gear and make these kids out to be evil terrorists and the citizins should be fearful of them. The term is called deflecting has been going on for years. Keep people focused on the bullshit while the real agenda is happening elsewhere.