Ouch part 2

Do you have any idea how much less traction you have in the rain? Do you also have any idea what will happen if you happen to hit a patch of oil or tar under that water? I ask because I know the answers (in numbers!) and I am not crazy enough to try sliding in the rain unless I'm on a track with lots of safe recovery and runoff space. FWIW, you really learn almost nothing about weight transfer doing this because - there isn't enough traction! If you're going to play that kind of game with your M3, forget spending money on upgrades or driver schools. Plan on buying another M3 after you crash this one ...

i drive that car a lot, i know how much less traction i am missing in rain(not in numbers but an idea) I really dont do it in the rain, but wet roads, in safe areas, not a track, but big enough where it can be one. there are a bunch of empty paved roads in my area, and i would never do anything in a area that i know i wont have enough space to recover or spin out... well, i am 19 what do i know about driving...lol. so the young guys around here i school them, but you guys whoop my but in this stuff, and thats great because i take all this critiscm and learn from it... if i had to pick a instructor id probably pick you Mr. Krieger.

Since you didn't take offense, I'll give you the numbers without further ado:

On wet surfaces, your traction is almost exactly HALF that in the dry. My instrumented drives on two successive days (dry, then wet, in the same car on the same tires) at Road America bear that out from 0.96 g to 0.48 g. When you've learned more about the theory of vehicle dynamics, this knowledge and the calculations you can make with it can lead you to some very interesting real world conclusions. So keep seeking, Grasshopper. There are guys who can talk about this for hours and still make it fascinating.

Since you didn't take offense, I'll give you the numbers without further ado:

On wet surfaces, your traction is almost exactly HALF that in the dry. My instrumented drives on two successive days (dry, then wet, in the same car on the same tires) at Road America bear that out from 0.96 g to 0.48 g. When you've learned more about the theory of vehicle dynamics, this knowledge and the calculations you can make with it can lead you to some very interesting real world conclusions. So keep seeking, Grasshopper. There are guys who can talk about this for hours and still make it fascinating.

Well my name is Hrach, pleasure to meat you.

wow so the e36 m3 gets up to 0.96g in the dry? I thought it would have probably have gotten like 0.90g or 0.88g.... well i can talk learn about these stuff for hours myself, other then God, nothing else interests more then cars and driving. and where are these CCA driving schools? and how much do they cost exactly? dont have much money left after buying this car...lol.

Who said anything about an E36? I was driving my old Audi Quattro - on really good tires.

I thought it would have probably have gotten like 0.90g or 0.88g.... well i can talk learn about these stuff for hours myself, other then God, nothing else interests more then cars and driving. and where are these CCA driving schools? and how much do they cost exactly? dont have much money left after buying this car...lol.

Read the ROUNDEL. Most, if not all, upcoming schools are in there. Or read your local chapter newsletter. Same thing. Schools range in cost from $25 car control schools to several hundred for a 2- or 3-day weekend high speed school (where they probably won't let you use your cabrio, so you'll have to rent or borrow a car).

Do you have any idea how much less traction you have in the rain? Do you also have any idea what will happen if you happen to hit a patch of oil or tar under that water?

I think that's what happened to my Toyota 4Runner last year in a typical Miami rainstorm coming off I-95 merging onto I-395 (left lane). The back end just went like I had 400 HP while I was going about 40 mph. Each time I caught the back end it swung around even more to the other side until I realized that I had lost it.

Then I remembered what they taught us at Skip Barber racing school: "When you spin, both feet in." I hit the brakes at the point where I was already completely sideways moving across two lanes of traffic. I ended up hitting the guard rail and damaging the front bumper but the body-on-frame 4Runner was not damaged significantly. But I managed to avoid hitting anyone else... which would have made matters far worse.

I tried to recreate the situation in big parking lots in rain and the back end would not break loose (unless provoked by full power application while turning hard). I've been driving 26 years and have two driving schools behind me... so I like to think it wasn't me. But I can't prove it.

A year later the venerable 4Runner's luck ran out when I got rear-ended. That's why I'm in the hunt for a good used BMW now... with stability control if I can manage it $$.

Who said anything about an E36? I was driving my old Audi Quattro - on really good tires.

Read the ROUNDEL. Most, if not all, upcoming schools are in there. Or read your local chapter newsletter. Same thing. Schools range in cost from $25 car control schools to several hundred for a 2- or 3-day weekend high speed school (where they probably won't let you use your cabrio, so you'll have to rent or borrow a car).

lol.. okay... really what section, i hardly put that thing down and havnt noticed it.
wow thats affordable, but i actually want to sell mine and but a coupe M3, or save up a bit more, and maybe picking up a E39 M5, or getting a E30 325 and modding it tastefully for the track.