mongbiohazard:In other words, women were making the judgment based off of male facial features which are common to men with high testosterone levels. Those high testosterone levels also correlate with a higher likelihood of cheating, so they were able to guess which men were more likely to cheat with some reasonable degree of accuracy.

Odd Bird:Drain: My friend was going to surprise his girlfriend with a trip to Mexico, where he was going to propose to her. He asked me whether he should go through with the surprise or just tell her.

"Surprise her dude, don't tell her anything." I said.

She could tell he was keeping a secret from her, so she accused him with 100% certainty of cheating on her. After a huge fight he told her about the now canceled trip to Mexico and she still feels like a total biatch about it.

Lesson: You don't know shiat ladies.

Near Christmas, Valentine's Day or her birthday:gf - what did you do last night?me - ran some errands, gamed, a bit of cleaninggf - what kinds of errands?...etc.I've been through this with a couple of women, reasons for the followup questions differ between them; they just like talking and are interested, they're henpecking, they're insecure and suspicious about everything. Sometimes a combination of the above.

After 47 years and a desire to minimize the pain in my life, I just tell them "it's Christmas/VD/BD so stop asking" (though phrased a bit gentler. sometimes)

MayoSlather:mongbiohazard: MayoSlather: FTA: "More masculine-looking men (were) rated as more probable to be unfaithful and having a sexual history of being more unfaithful."

This is crazy. So what they're saying is that if a man looks more attractive and thus has more options that he's more likely to cheat? Get out!

You couldn't read just one more sentence in TFA? Seriously, this was the very next line after your quote:Attractiveness was not a factor in the women making the link.

In other words, women were making the judgment based off of male facial features which are common to men with high testosterone levels. Those high testosterone levels also correlate with a higher likelihood of cheating, so they were able to guess which men were more likely to cheat with some reasonable degree of accuracy.

But the attractiveness of the man's face (which usually is predicated on other attributes, such as facial symmetry) didn't appear to be a factor in the decision making.

Touché, admittedly skipped over that while skimming the tiny article. There is still an argument there along this line of thought though, and it's highly likely there is a simple conditioned logic there as opposed to an innate super power given by estrogen. That is to say that general attractiveness isn't the same as being sexually attractive. Someone may be symmetrical, but the more features that are distinctly male may be more sexually attractive. Thus more options = more cheating, or the Chris Rock hypothesis.

That bit by Chris Rock applies to the statistical outliers, if I remember it correctly. The few men who are so rich and famous that they're not comparable to normal folks.

It's not that estrogen gives women some mind reading ability... It's more that testosterone levels have a quantifiable effect on male behavior and women have evolved to discern it by noticing the physiological features that are common to men with high testosterone. We don't like to think of ourselves as being animals whose behavior and thoughts can be strongly influenced by chemistry, but we certainly are or no mood shaping drugs would affect us.

Mad_Radhu:mongbiohazard: In other words, women were making the judgment based off of male facial features which are common to men with high testosterone levels. Those high testosterone levels also correlate with a higher likelihood of cheating, so they were able to guess which men were more likely to cheat with some reasonable degree of accuracy.

But I thought men with high testosterone were proven to be more honest?

Farking around isn't the same as lying as far as your genes are concerned, we didn't evolve into animals bound by marriage - we did that to ourselves. And more honest doesn't mean always honest. I see no reason to believe both studies couldn't have found valid data. Perhaps a high testosterone male will more strongly try and follow the genetic imperative to spread his genes but will be less willing to screw someone over on a contract or something...

mongbiohazard:MayoSlather: mongbiohazard: MayoSlather: FTA: "More masculine-looking men (were) rated as more probable to be unfaithful and having a sexual history of being more unfaithful."

This is crazy. So what they're saying is that if a man looks more attractive and thus has more options that he's more likely to cheat? Get out!

You couldn't read just one more sentence in TFA? Seriously, this was the very next line after your quote:Attractiveness was not a factor in the women making the link.

In other words, women were making the judgment based off of male facial features which are common to men with high testosterone levels. Those high testosterone levels also correlate with a higher likelihood of cheating, so they were able to guess which men were more likely to cheat with some reasonable degree of accuracy.

But the attractiveness of the man's face (which usually is predicated on other attributes, such as facial symmetry) didn't appear to be a factor in the decision making.

Touché, admittedly skipped over that while skimming the tiny article. There is still an argument there along this line of thought though, and it's highly likely there is a simple conditioned logic there as opposed to an innate super power given by estrogen. That is to say that general attractiveness isn't the same as being sexually attractive. Someone may be symmetrical, but the more features that are distinctly male may be more sexually attractive. Thus more options = more cheating, or the Chris Rock hypothesis.

That bit by Chris Rock applies to the statistical outliers, if I remember it correctly. The few men who are so rich and famous that they're not comparable to normal folks.

It's not that estrogen gives women some mind reading ability... It's more that testosterone levels have a quantifiable effect on male behavior and women have evolved to discern it by noticing the physiological features that are common to men with high testosterone. We don't like to think of ourselves as being anima ...

I'm fairly certain this is true. It's why they suspected more masculine men of cheating over just plain more attractive men. It's not a huge stretch for anyones thinking to believe that the more testosterone fueled a guy is, the more likely he is to engage in risky behavior, including sex.

Full disclosure - Hell, I am one of those guys. Facial stubble that can cut the razor back, high stress alpha management job, top to my wifes bottom and I have cheated before on lovers because I felt like I could get away with it.

The biggest frustration that I have in life is that my natural hormone fueled inclinations often get rewarded, at least superficially, at some level or another (certainly it's helped me advance my professional career) but as an intelligent human being, they are often quite at odds with values that I have including the importance that I put on personal relationships. If I was an idiot, I think I would be quite happy to fark my way through a succession of bimbos, and travel around the world on my tug boat getting into fist fights - however being rather intelligent, instead I spend an inordinate amount of time practicing mindfullness techniques to ensure that my motivations and compulsions are actually forwarding my intellectual agenda for having a healthy and secure life.

At least, being the douche bag that I am, I'm not neurotic about all this. Over inflated sense of self worth for the win!

//on the flip side, I'm smart enough to realize I inflate my own abilities.... ugh so depressing to think about.

I was working tons of overtime the few weeks leading up to my (ex)wife's birthday so I could afford to buy her something extra special. She kept demanding a reason for me being at work so late and wasn't happy with my answer of "there's just a lot of work that needs to get done". When her birthday finally rolled around and presented her with a top of the line electronic piano (Yamaha P120), which I had a chosen because she was constantly expressing her desire to own a piano and learn to play, her response was extremely luke warm when I told her that was the reason for all the overtime. I think she simply had to believe I had someone on the side and no way was a perfectly plausible explanation going to cut it. We weren't together much long after that.

I think the editors of this junk-science piece don't quite grasp what's being said. The article's own quotes indicate that there is very little difference in how the sexes perceive the potential for infidelity. The more gender-typical traits you have, the more the opposite sex thinks you are liable to cheat:

"More masculine-looking men (were) rated as more probable to be unfaithful and having a sexual history of being more unfaithful."

"Men, on the other hand, seemed to have no clue. They tended to perceive attractive, feminine women to be unfaithful, when there was no evidence that they were, the scientists noted."

Shorter Yahoo/Reuters: Manly men and girly girls are both perceived as being more likely to cheat. But only manly men have a statistical correlation with increased likelihood of cheating.

So contra article headline, it's not so much that women are better/smarter cheater-detectors, but that manly men tend to live up to the archetype/stereotype.

DRTFA, but I've ID'd cheaters three times, once from a photograph. I had never met the guy (I worked with his wife), someone showed me a picture and I immediately thought "he cheats on her." Turned out he cheated on his wife multiple times, including with her 14 year-old sister.

The other two times were guys I'd known for a while and just suddenly picked up a vibe. In both cases, a couple months later, it was revealed that they were cheaters.

Oh, and for the fellas being interrogated over shopping trips for their overly-inquisitive ladies...

Just tell them the truth-you were shopping for their present, and if they are (naturally) curious and ask what it is, or where you went, then think of the lamest possible gift and give them that answer (i.e. "I went to the mine to get you a lump of coal", "went to Wal-Mart to buy you a new ironing board", etc). Eventually they will get the hint and lay off. Or, like my wife, they will find humour in it and pester you just to see what dastardly answers you'll give.

OgreMagi:I was working tons of overtime the few weeks leading up to my (ex)wife's birthday so I could afford to buy her something extra special. She kept demanding a reason for me being at work so late and wasn't happy with my answer of "there's just a lot of work that needs to get done". When her birthday finally rolled around and presented her with a top of the line electronic piano (Yamaha P120), which I had a chosen because she was constantly expressing her desire to own a piano and learn to play, her response was extremely luke warm when I told her that was the reason for all the overtime. I think she simply had to believe I had someone on the side and no way was a perfectly plausible explanation going to cut it. We weren't together much long after that.

/I was naive to think I had chosen the perfect gift

Frankly mate, I like to think of your naiveity as really more of an all-encompassing miasma surrounding you and enunciated by a wide variety of fantastical libertarian view points. It makes you kind of precious actually, considering your apparent age - you're like an intellectual peter pan :)

But yeah, don't ever buy anyone a device for something they "want to learn". People say a lot of stupid shiat. My wife wanted to learn card tricks. I bought her a pair of cards. To date, she can't even play Texas holdem correctly, let alone perform a magic trick (at least with the cards... and that's all I'm saying about that).

Then last thing I had resembling a serious relationship ended when I was three weeks into an escalating program of antibiotics to fight a nasty bacterial infection that was causing ridiculous joint pain, swelling in my extremities and had opened me up to the kind of cough nasty enough that the doctor had to prescribe some magic pills that turned off the cough reflex (and if you took too many, could disable your breathing reflex.)

Anyway, except for visits to the doctor, my life had become a miserable existence of sitting motionless on the couch with the TiVo remote in one hand and a bottle of water in the other. My only goal in life was to sleep as much as possible and, if I couldn't do that, to not do anything that might cause more pain or coughing.

She called, and demanded to know what secrets I was keeping from her, specifically if I was seeing somebody else, because I couldn't possibly REALLY be too sick to talk to her about what was "going on with us."

I listened to her go on for a while and then croaked out "We're done." and turned off the phone.

pavaroso:Then last thing I had resembling a serious relationship ended when I was three weeks into an escalating program of antibiotics to fight a nasty bacterial infection that was causing ridiculous joint pain, swelling in my extremities and had opened me up to the kind of cough nasty enough that the doctor had to prescribe some magic pills that turned off the cough reflex (and if you took too many, could disable your breathing reflex.)

Anyway, except for visits to the doctor, my life had become a miserable existence of sitting motionless on the couch with the TiVo remote in one hand and a bottle of water in the other. My only goal in life was to sleep as much as possible and, if I couldn't do that, to not do anything that might cause more pain or coughing.

She called, and demanded to know what secrets I was keeping from her, specifically if I was seeing somebody else, because I couldn't possibly REALLY be too sick to talk to her about what was "going on with us."

I listened to her go on for a while and then croaked out "We're done." and turned off the phone.

It's threads like these that make me realise I'm not alone.

/no, I'm not going to have a group hug//you're better off without her///hopefully you got rid of the cough too

RedVentrue:Pocket Ninja: Well, that depends. Is she looking at him while he's cheating?

More likely the women held to their lie about being faithfull during the study. Women are better at lying, and sticking to the lie.

Truth right there.

However, many people arent so good at thinking on the fly and/or remembering what small lies they told to support the big one. After enough time and/or conversation inconsistencies begin to show, which can lead to being able to unravel the lie.

Also relevant to that...be very careful lying to someone who is smarter than you and has a good memory for details.

Ran into an older guy from work and his twelve-year-old daughter at a restaurant. I arrived when he was ordering an after-dinner port, so the dude asks me to sit down and have a drink with him. We chat for a while, he pays, then goes to the restroom. This must have been about the time when my girlfriend walked by, because when I got home I got raked over the coals with "WHO IS SHE? WHO IS SHE?" Like that should be her biggest concern if I'm banging twelve-year-olds.

Phins:DRTFA, but I've ID'd cheaters three times, once from a photograph. I had never met the guy (I worked with his wife), someone showed me a picture and I immediately thought "he cheats on her." Turned out he cheated on his wife multiple times, including with her 14 year-old sister.

The other two times were guys I'd known for a while and just suddenly picked up a vibe. In both cases, a couple months later, it was revealed that they were cheaters.

I sure hope you're joking.

If not....holy farking shiat you are conceited. You think your 3 anecdotes mean anything? They mean nothing, especially considering that you have probably seen 100s of pictures of people that did not trigger your cheater radar.