<snip>
Terril? I suspect I would thoroughly annoy you if we ever had a proper conversation. I'd have to do my very best to not piss you off because I would be tempted to challenge you on every circular concept you twirled round and round. What I get from the words you write and post here, is that you are in servitude to a "force" you are trained to never see/sense. Mostly I guess, if I really think about it, I feel a tinge of sadness that there are invisible chains around you. It's not a healthy way for a human to be. I could yell at you "WAKE UP!" but the patterns are so strong, all you would hear is a messy filtered noise, which you would then immediately rebuke with more of the same automatic trained-in responses.

Cup of tea anybody? Very good for the soul. Much better than messing with mind control techniques and deluding self that you are going "spiritually free".

Something some of you may not know is that I am fairly well read on actual mind control experiments. The real deal, verified declassified documents. Hence I have a broad view of how behaviour, thoughts and emotions are conditioned using various techniques that have been experimented with. I have my own story of how I depatterned all the scientology shit in my head - of how I "mastered" the automatic thought stopping junk that I had been trained with in scientology. I have worked with some very experienced/skilled psychs the past few years to sort out the damage done during my scientology years.

It doesn't matter who wrote what in the scientology tombs - or some "lite" altered version - it is all thought-stopping stuff and leads people away from themselves. It installs a dependency that is not healthy. Good therapy increases an individuals sense of themselves, their own unique thoughts, behaviours and emotional responses. Good healthy therapy leaves you wanting to go live life, fully, unattached to anyone else's ideas or techniques. "All things scientology" does the exact opposite.

In Chris's video he beautifully manages to convey the convoluted methods that the truth rundown uses. This rundown severely messes with an individuals perception of reality and of themselves. That is a very sinister thing to do to another human, particularly when it is being done to get another to blindly conform to a masked form of servitude. Scientology is not about "freedom", it is about controlling others, domination, greed and shitty stuff like that.

Terril? I suspect I would thoroughly annoy you if we ever had a proper conversation. I'd have to do my very best to not piss you off because I would be tempted to challenge you on every circular concept you twirled round and round. What I get from the words you write and post here, is that you are in servitude to a "force" you are trained to never see/sense. Mostly I guess, if I really think about it, I feel a tinge of sadness that there are invisible chains around you. It's not a healthy way for a human to be. I could yell at you "WAKE UP!" but the patterns are so strong, all you would hear is a messy filtered noise, which you would then immediately rebuke with more of the same automatic trained-in responses.

Cup of tea anybody? Very good for the soul. Much better than messing with mind control techniques and deluding self that you are going "spiritually free".

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Do I really want to comment on this circular debate with Terril? Its late, I'm kind of tired, common sense tells me I should refrain. Oh what the hell. I feel like there are two completely divergent realities here that can never meet. Some people enjoy the best that Scientology has to offer and somehow seem to be able to hang out in that warm and fuzzy place for a very long time. When I see pictures of people at these events, I get the impression that a lot of them are hold overs from the 70s before there was an internet, and their grown kids are there as the designated drivers. Where is the next generation of happy children running around - disturbingly absent.

We go on tangents about how awful the Sea Org and the RPF were, but to be fair, they have cured a lot of people from this lingering devotion to Scientology and LRH. Maybe we need to construct our own mocked up Sea Org camp for FZers still on the fence. Experience sleeping in the morgue, get locked up in a cage, have you done the incinerator room yet? Its so authentic!

I'm cleaning dumpsters with toothbrushes today. I'm doing toilets. I'm doing the bathroom floor but I didn't get a toothbrush!!

I'm not sure its possible to bridge this gap. I am curious though - all these people out there someplace telling other people their most deepest darkest transgressions in these FZ Sec-Checks and whatever version of the Truth R/D that they are doing, where are all those PC Folders being kept?

Do I really want to comment on this circular debate with Terril? Its late, I'm kind of tired, common sense tells me I should refrain. Oh what the hell. I feel like there are two completely divergent realities here that can never meet. Some people enjoy the best that Scientology has to offer and somehow seem to be able to hang out in that warm and fuzzy place for a very long time. When I see pictures of people at these events, I get the impression that a lot of them are hold overs from the 70s before there was an internet, and their grown kids are there as the designated drivers. Where is the next generation of happy children running around - disturbingly absent.

We go on tangents about how awful the Sea Org and the RPF were, but to be fair, they have cured a lot of people from this lingering devotion to Scientology and LRH. Maybe we need to construct our own mocked up Sea Org camp for FZers still on the fence. Experience sleeping in the morgue, get locked up in a cage, have you done the incinerator room yet? Its so authentic!

I'm cleaning dumpsters with toothbrushes today. I'm doing toilets. I'm doing the bathroom floor but I didn't get a toothbrush!!

I'm not sure its possible to bridge this gap. I am curious though - all these people out there someplace telling other people their most deepest darkest transgressions in these FZ Sec-Checks and whatever version of the Truth R/D that they are doing, where are all those PC Folders being kept?

Hey whats this? Boy, grampa sure was into some kinky stuff!

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Good post.

I think that Scientology consists of a series of increasingly and ever worsening delusions accepted and rationalized as the individuals sense of self erodes.

It begins all warm and fuzzy, but like the movie "Gremlins", all it takes is a few drops of water for the Pirhanna teeth and devil ears to pop out!

For example, in 1969 overboarding was done at the New York Org in emulation and homage to the genius of Dr. Hubbard.

The transgression: Late to course.

The punishment: I was taken, fully clothed and made to stand in a cold shower for 5 minutes.

A normal person would have said, "Fuck you, Adios" and been gone in a flash.

But I was wed to the delusion of OT, and accepted the abuse and hypothermia. ('Twas the middle of Winter.)

Do I really want to comment on this circular debate with Terril? Its late, I'm kind of tired, common sense tells me I should refrain. Oh what the hell. I feel like there are two completely divergent realities here that can never meet. Some people enjoy the best that Scientology has to offer and somehow seem to be able to hang out in that warm and fuzzy place for a very long time. When I see pictures of people at these events, I get the impression that a lot of them are hold overs from the 70s before there was an internet, and their grown kids are there as the designated drivers. Where is the next generation of happy children running around - disturbingly absent.

We go on tangents about how awful the Sea Org and the RPF were, but to be fair, they have cured a lot of people from this lingering devotion to Scientology and LRH. Maybe we need to construct our own mocked up Sea Org camp for FZers still on the fence. Experience sleeping in the morgue, get locked up in a cage, have you done the incinerator room yet? Its so authentic!

I'm cleaning dumpsters with toothbrushes today. I'm doing toilets. I'm doing the bathroom floor but I didn't get a toothbrush!!

I'm not sure its possible to bridge this gap. I am curious though - all these people out there someplace telling other people their most deepest darkest transgressions in these FZ Sec-Checks and whatever version of the Truth R/D that they are doing, where are all those PC Folders being kept?

Hey whats this? Boy, grampa sure was into some kinky stuff!

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I realise what I am about to write may be slightly "left field" but writing it anyway.

Some people struggle to truly grow up and evolve. They keep doing the same shit, over and over, with some misguided notion that things will turn out differently. Circular. They cling, like teenagers, to the "feel good, groovy times" from their past. And yeah their kids end up being their designated drivers, in more than just the literal sense.

They fake being adults, are hopeless to be around when the real shit hits the fan (no skill-set to assess reality in fast accurate way), are defensive of their Peter-Pan lifestyles/distorted views of reality, and bore the crap out of people like me.

This video is for grown-ups. It is suitable for viewers who wish to be flexible in their thinking and not keep doing the same shit over and over, expecting a different outcome. It is well worth watching.

I wouldn't state it that strongly but yes we had a conversation on this. Was many
years ago and on this point my view has changed considerably. In fact I think I've only
talked to 3 people about their experiences on the RPF, you being the third. The first 2
I was sharing a train carriage down to EG with, probably late sixties, and they
both agreed very strongly that the best friends they ever made were with people they
were on the RPF with. Dartsmohen would have been on the RPF around the same time
and the picture he painted was not as bleak as those on it later.

...
Terril's compulsion to spew "Success Stories" is nothing more or less than a very lame attempt to make the problem (that the tech doesn't work and people are openly talking about it online) go away.

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So are you saying that Terril uses the tech that doesn't work to ameliorate the effects of the tech not working?

Paul, Anonycat is right. You guys ran with this so fast and assumed it was Dianetics because somebody insisted it was. I remember that thread. I know you didn't intentionally misrepresent it, too. Someone (Terril?) ran off with the Dn idea and then everyone thought TIR was from Dianetics.

I was briefed on TIR when I was interviewed in Sydney to take part in a study on it a few years ago as a subject. So I know a great deal about it.

It's a little bit like Dn. They don't ask E/S, though, or for postulates or anything like that. It's more like Freudian psychotherapy, but much more focused.

First of all, it is only for those who have had a SINGLE heavily traumatic incident. Not multiples. Unlike Dn, which is very muzzled, TIR has a bit of discussion about the incident back and forth between the counselor and patient. There are no commands like, 'Go to the beginning of the Incident, Move Through That Incident and 'Move to the end of that Incident.' Nothing like that. It's quite casual, like a conversation, but focused. I suppose a little bit muzzled, but not like Dn. The only similarity to Dn is that they do tell about the incident again to 'reduce' the trauma.

Anonycat, this really wasn't Paul's fault. Someone - and I think it was Terril - kept insisting TIR was from Dianetics though I have no idea why or who came up with that claim. Wasn't Paul, but it might be on that original thread.

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Hubbard stole ideas from everyone. How can anyone see an idea he promoted and assume that someone stole it from him and not the other way around?

I think that Scientology consists of a series of increasingly and ever worsening delusions accepted and rationalized as the individuals sense of self erodes.

It begins all warm and fuzzy, but like the movie "Gremlins", all it takes is a few drops of water for the Pirhanna teeth and devil ears to pop out!

For example, in 1969 overboarding was done at the New York Org in emulation and homage to the genius of Dr. Hubbard.

The transgression: Late to course.

The punishment: I was taken, fully clothed and made to stand in a cold shower for 5 minutes.

A normal person would have said, "Fuck you, Adios" and been gone in a flash.

But I was wed to the delusion of OT, and accepted the abuse and hypothermia. ('Twas the middle of Winter.)

The Grade Chart was my "warm and fuzzy."

So, teeth chattering and shivering, I soldiered on.

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I remember hearing about the Overboarding early on. Maybe it is mentioned in the Sea Org tapes on the EPF but as I recall it was kind of glossed over or romanticized. Certainly it was not described in graphic detail the way Hana explains it in Going Clear with the oily funky harbor water and including older people. But I also remember hearing something about using cold showers as an on land alternative as though it were a policy, not just a "tradition".

How routinely or broadly was this cold shower routine used? I never saw it done or knew anyone who had done it when I was in.

When Mod2 posted, the thought came and went that perhaps the thread name was going to be changed to "ESMB ASSAILED BY TERILL'S TRUTH RUNDOWN".

For auditors scientology seems to appeal to the vanity of the individual. The notion that your the savior of the universe can really bring about a self importance. With all the mind manipulation in scientology something like that might be very difficult to overcome, heck something some folks may not want to lose. Auditing's attempt to explain a person's experience will never work for the simple reason that no two people will have the same experience. There may be similar experiences when people sit down to share experiences, but there is no way you can ever have another's experience. Auditing attempts to bring about the belief that it can define a person's experience. That may be one reason that someone that has bought into auditing will fall back on using definitions of when they defend the beliefs that auditing has developed for them.

It seems Terril is like one of those foaming at the mouth scientologists that always comes out to scream " WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES ?" at protestors.

They are so smugly certain their arrogance at defending ron is the most noble action on the planet so they are compelled to get out in the street & scream nonsense.as thery spew spit along with their words.

Rather like a stray dog gone mad isn't it ?

Funny, the only real "win" they can muster is when they can push back against others - that makes 'em feel big. But, oh dear, is their ( barf ) technology bringing them "wins" ? Is their traipse across their mythical "bridge" bringing them "wins"?

No, just exactly like the scientology cult they claim to have left, what do they do ? Find ( make ) an enemy & push back !

Oh, God, poor babies in this so called fz don't even know they ARE STILL scientologists !
( They are doing rons work, right ? )
.............................................

PS : Terril you damn well KNOW who the complete failures as auditors are that the Fool Zone welcomes with open arms !

You also, I suspect, know that the C o S could never make hubbards 'tech' no matter how draconian they got with those who couldn't make it work. And this Fool Zone takes that shit, stirs it with other 'ologies & sells it.

You also mentioned Idenics as being in your beloved Fool Zone. No. It isn't. You knew that. Please stop making up lies to try to add some respectability to your merry band of whatever they claim to be.

PPS : Terril, being you continue to covertly sneak in your FZ wins I decided to overtly change my siggy line to balance your sneaky stuff. I can get bolder & brasher, if needed.

I have come up with a bright idea to handle Terril's incessant derailing by means of posting an avalanche of his Scientology "WINS".

It occurred to me a few days ago that Terril is simply (and badly) in need of a SAFE TERMINAL to listen to him.

Then, this afternoon I spotted this guy. . .

​

Thus, I am setting up a DONATION button so everyone can kick in a few bucks to hire this Field Auditor to be posted full time on a special TERRIL'S WINS THREAD here on ESMB.

Please contribute generously! Just press button below--

​

Some people have reported that the DONATE NOW! button "Didn't Work". In such cases Terril has generously agreed to refer those beings to a standard FreeZone auditor for a case sort-out and debug. Terril reminds us that the tech always works and people who think it didn't work are in terrible case shape, requiring their overts and evil purposes to be pulled & handled on the FPRD.

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Hey Helluva, is that dude with the beard and sign related to your avatar? Son, perhaps?

I remember hearing about the Overboarding early on. Maybe it is mentioned in the Sea Org tapes on the EPF but as I recall it was kind of glossed over or romanticized. Certainly it was not described in graphic detail the way Hana explains it in Going Clear with the oily funky harbor water and including older people. But I also remember hearing something about using cold showers as an on land alternative as though it were a policy, not just a "tradition".

How routinely or broadly was this cold shower routine used? I never saw it done or knew anyone who had done it when I was in.

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I don't think I can quantify it other than to state that I experienced it on at least two occasions, and that I was aware of other people being subjected to it.
Louis Swartz was the ethics officer, in my instance.

I don't think I can quantify it other than to state that I experienced it on at least two occasions, and that I was aware of other transgressors being subjected to it.
Louis Swartz was the ethics officer, in my instance.

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I once heard that the Fort Harrison pool was used for overboarding. I don't know if true or how many times it happened.

I remember hearing about the Overboarding early on. Maybe it is mentioned in the Sea Org tapes on the EPF but as I recall it was kind of glossed over or romanticized. Certainly it was not described in graphic detail the way Hana explains it in Going Clear with the oily funky harbor water and including older people. But I also remember hearing something about using cold showers as an on land alternative as though it were a policy, not just a "tradition".

How routinely or broadly was this cold shower routine used? I never saw it done or knew anyone who had done it when I was in.

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It was used in Dundas years ago. They would get people out in the middle of the field outdoors and throw buckets of cold water on them.

This is from a Sydney protester to whom this was done when he was a teenager I would guess about 10 years ago.