hey, thanks for explaining...
well i dont know yet which type i'm... i guess 6w7 is most likely. or 7w6.
about that LOTR example i guess i do more so i dont miss something...but am not sure.
i dont like about enneagram that you need to be only one type, wth i mean it never matches so much as mbti, i think

I reckon enneagram is easier, there's only 9 categories to work out, and they're all pretty distinct and clear (for the most part, the main ones that are hard to pin are 6s and 9s). They're pretty well equivalent systems though, in MB, you might confuse ISTJ for INTP, or even INFP for ENTJ, and it's the same in the enneagram, you might confuse 3s and 7s, or 6w5s and 8s. I like the enneagram better atm... and it's probably because it's less familiar to me than MBTI... lol, or it might be that it's just more intuitive. I think maybe the enneagram is more precise than MBTI, you can easily type someone based on the 4 dichotomies, and it doesn't really matter if you're off by one of them, you can be 3/4s right, and often progressively type people... even deduce the rest of their type from a vibe using deduction. But the enneagram really needs you to see that person as a whole first, to work out their motivations rather than just what they look like, it's much like the Thinking/Feeling dichotomy.

Excellent , I have many seemingly random questions:
1. do you ever envision yourself as a professional?
2. do you ever feel ashamed in any way?
3. how assertive are you in general, 7s are usually motivated by what they want (it's that they often feel that they're missing out I think), I can see how that type would be assertive, but not 3s
4. Would the description of 'iron fist, with a velvet glove' fit you at all?
5. are you more serious, or cheerful?
6. What are you like when you learn? organize things? (a party or get together for example)

I just worked out the motivation of the 3 though, and it all fell into place. The type actually makes sense now. I was thinking before that 3 was just some completely random type thrown into the enneagram for no good reason because the traits seemed peculiar. 3s just want to be worth something, because when they feel unworthy, they feel ashamed. It seems every time I post here and ask questions, I end up working it out. I've probably confused a few 3s for 7s too.

1. No. I'm non-traditional.
2. No.
3. I am so damn assertive..my INFJ wife has to keep me in check. Ha!
4. It could if someone messed with me maliciously.
5. Serious
6. I keep things loose on the outside but on the inside I'm very organized. I want things to go well for everyone.

Sorry I'm just now responding to your questions..I just saw this message

"..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

1. No. I'm non-traditional.
2. No.
3. I am so damn assertive..my INFJ wife has to keep me in check. Ha!
4. It could if someone messed with me maliciously.
5. Serious
6. I keep things loose on the outside but on the inside I'm very organized. I want things to go well for everyone.

Sorry I'm just now responding to your questions..I just saw this message

No worries, I expected it

The assertive part of it is interesting, same with the seriousness, though it might not be a 3 thing... ya never know. Thanks

I think I'm a 3w4. I don't relate to 7s at all, which makes me an outsider amongst most ENTPs. I admire them and the traits that they have, and to some degree want to adopt those traits for myself, but it's definitely very far away from the core of who I really am.

If I'm not a 3w4 ENTP, my next best guess would be 5w4 INTP.

I also do not relate to 6 or 2 at all, so I know that I'm not a 3w2 or 5w6.

I see a lot of myself in 8, but that's probably just because I'm a strong NT. I know that I'm not an 8.

I'd say that I do crave admiration, both from my intelligence and creative prowess. That's a very 3w4 thing. It seems like a stupid thing to be motivated by, right? But I want to be WORTHY of admiration, that's the real driver. So while I do tend to show off a little bit, the ultimate critic of my own significance and worthiness is me. I want to be magnificent, for myself, and for everybody else. I don't want to just play the part. At some point, it has absolutely nothing to do with filling in for insecurities anymore. It's about knowing that you've got a knack for breaking through boundaries, loving the process, and hoping that you'll be able to inspire positive change within yourself and others as the result of it. Creation and discovery are big things for me, and I'm passionate about those processes. There's lots of things I could do to look more successful on the outside, but it wouldn't mean anything to me. I want to celebrate my own vision, not someone else's. I'm not shy about sticking my vision in front of other people, in fact, I like it, but I wouldn't be able to live if I stuck them in front of my vision. I am always very aware of my image and how I'm perceived, but all of the effort I put into that is so that I'm seen as who I am, and not just who I want them to see me as. Not that it requires effort to be seen as who I am - I'm referring to something like sharing a creation. So it's just plain old authenticity or pure creativity.

That's my perspective right now at least. I can't say for sure that all 3s or 3w4s would agree with it, but in my opinion, it could be a decent insight into the mindset. I think it sounds self-inflating, so please note that it's just an attempt to describe something. I'm making no claims.

I think I'm a 3w4. I don't relate to 7s at all, which makes me an outsider amongst most ENTPs. I admire them and the traits that they have, and to some degree want to adopt those traits for myself, but it's definitely very far away from the core of who I really am.

If I'm not a 3w4 ENTP, my next best guess would be 5w4 INTP.

I also do not relate to 6 or 2 at all, so I know that I'm not a 3w2 or 5w6.

I see a lot of myself in 8, but that's probably just because I'm a strong NT. I know that I'm not an 8.

I'd say that I do crave admiration, both from my intelligence and creative prowess. That's a very 3w4 thing. It seems like a stupid thing to be motivated by, right? But I want to be WORTHY of admiration, that's the real driver. So while I do tend to show off a little bit, the ultimate critic of my own significance and worthiness is me. I want to be magnificent, for myself, and for everybody else. I don't want to just play the part. At some point, it has absolutely nothing to do with filling in for insecurities anymore. It's about knowing that you've got a knack for breaking through boundaries, loving the process, and hoping that you'll be able to inspire positive change within yourself and others as the result of it. Creation and discovery are big things for me, and I'm passionate about those processes. There's lots of things I could do to look more successful on the outside, but it wouldn't mean anything to me.

This is a very interesting perspective - something that I hadn't thought of or recognized. It makes complete sense the way you explain it. After we had our exchange in Vent, I was so confused as to why you were so bothered by it, but now I understand a bit more. Your image - the way you see yourself and the way you think others see you - is very important to you. Much more than I can possibly relate to or understand, based on your description.

This is so foreign to the way I think. Admiration is secondary, or actually, it's like at the bottom of the list. I mean, it's there sometimes - but it's nowhere near a driving force. As a matter of fact, I usually prefer to live life under the radar and do things anonymously.

are there many 3w4 intps? my younger brother is an ntp 3w4 but i can't tell if he's an intp or entp. i can't decide whether he is more behind-the-scenes or get things going. i have seen him as an intp previously, but i'm reconsidering. he's pushy in a way that makes me lean towards entp. he is more disarming with Fe than any of the other intps i've ever met. aggressive salesman when he wants to be. in a group he will defer and go with it in a self-described wingman kind of way, he is obsessed with doing one new thing he would have otherwise rejected every week, and this allows him to do that by being more open to others. he likes to get the energy going- i could see get-things-going as much as i could see behind-the-scenes, maybe more get-things-going. when one-on-one he becomes very pushy, says everything he thinks out loud, and is very aggressive at continually shifting the attention back to himself. he wants others around him to consider every aspect of him, think about all his idiosyncrasies, dwell on them, etc.

his external interests are rooted in procedural justice, understanding the actors/characters in media stories and explaining why the situation works the way it does, stories of achievement, sports, and romantic comedies. he loves public freakouts like only entps love public freakouts, he wants to make love to them. he also has an extremely strong entrepeneurial futurism base that satisfies his extremely strong "ohmygod that's CRAZY" need when he hears about things that interest him.

i don't necessarily see Si inf or Ne dom, but i don't see Fe at inf either. i would have guessed Ti dom at first. he loves family guy and most of his jokes have to do with performance first and analogy second. he naturally writes in a way that has a very strong voice- it ALWAYS sounds like him, tho it is far more of an off-the-cuff joking about ____ reference that at times reeks of too much family guy.

This is so foreign to the way I think. Admiration is secondary, or actually, it's like at the bottom of the list. I mean, it's there sometimes - but it's nowhere near a driving force. As a matter of fact, I usually prefer to live life under the radar and do things anonymously.

This was a very helpful post.

Motivations are kind of interesting. Most of us want the same basic things, like fulfillment, but different varieties of motivations lead to fulfillment for different people. While a 7 may want freedom so that they can experience things and enjoy themselves, just experiencing things is rarely enough for me because I have a need for everything to mean something. It's not that I devalue experiential pleasure, I just come from a different perspective. I want everything to be meaningful, profound, novel, and creative. If what I'm not doing is not one of those things according to my own standards (I left out a few things), then I just feel like I'm wasting my time. There's no strict criteria for whether I'm doing those things or not, and it's subjective of course, so sitting there thinking seems like a very worthwhile thing to do most of the time because I'm working on something "big" in my head.

I often see my life from above. As if the real me is up in the sky looking down on the masterpiece that I'm creating. Things that other people care a lot about barely mean anything to me. One of my biggest problems from the past was always placing too much importance on the magnificence of what I was doing instead of the practicality of it. Well, I still do it, but not as much. If my life was a novel, I'm the author, main character, and the readership. Yes, even when nobody is around and I never plan on telling anybody about what I'm doing, I'm still my own audience. I experience myself and my idea of my life from many different angles. I'm never just me looking out, and I've always wondered if other people are actually like that. This may sound weird, but it's more simple than it seems. My imagination entertains me and inspires me, I enjoy the ride, and I have a strong desire to have a positive impact on others. I want to create profound magnificence, I want to experience it, and I want to share it. I want to show people what's possible.

I've always wanted to be the hero, the light-bringer, the sage, the creator, the scientist, or the philosopher. Someone who makes a profound difference in a unique way. I still want to be other things, but I want to be those other things because they can add to my life experience. I want to be those first things because they are among my biggest and most defining motivations.

But it's not so strange, because it all ties together. I think anybody's outlook on life would seem strange from the outside, because it's impossible to explain everything and words can be taken in many different ways. Plus, we're viewing everything through our own subjective lenses. In most significant ways, we all have a lot in common. Here's an example so that my viewpoint seems easier to relate to.

If we played music together and then went out dancing, we'd both probably look like we were having the same experience on the outside. While jamming, we'd both be enjoying ourselves equally, but I'd be thinking about what I'm learning from the experience about music theory that I could later use to produce something amazing or teach to other people, I'd be trying to remember the things that I played that I liked the most so that I could later use it for a song, and I'd be thinking about all kinds of other things. I might even think about how we could record a song together that everybody will love to hear 20 years from now. Often, thinking, learning, experimenting, and experiencing are same thing for me, so it's not like you'd think I was distracted. I'd probably be talking the whole time and having tons of fun.

While dancing, I'd probably be a little awkward at first, and then I'd somehow find myself having all the attention of the dance floor and really going at it in some crazy way that is completely ridiculous but fun and inspiring. The whole time I'd be having a blast, but I'd also be thinking about brilliant lines that I could write in a book some day about conquering fear or whatever other thing I'd think that I was learning about at the time. This thinking never really stops. (And I always enjoy it.) The downside is that when it turns negative it's just as powerful, but in a destructive way. I still kind of enjoy it then, too, because every thought I have seems like a cosmic brush-stroke on the masterpiece of my life, no matter how messed up it is. A novel's magnificence is not measured by how happy the characters in it were.

I understand that wanting to be, create, and spread greatness is a lot different than actually doing it. No delusions there. I'm not there yet, at least not in the way that I want to be. If the main character in the novel is suffering, it's okay, because the author and readership are still having a great time. So believe me, I'm not trying to take any credit for anything that I haven't actually accomplished, this is just the way that I think.

In short, I'm grandiose. Aspirations of grandeur rather than delusions of grandeur.

I've been doing research on 7w6, and it's unmistakable that this is what I am (with a sexual variant).

I'm conflicted about this. It sounds so vulnerable and difficult.

I'm a 7w6 as well - also a sexual variant. It fits very well for me too - the sexual variant made SO much sense and explains why I thought I had some similarities with 4s, the forever pining. The variant brings with it a need for intense connections. I agree with you - it allows for a particular vulnerability. I think this is connected to basic fears: deprivation for 7s and security for 6s, a weird combination. One makes us fear staying still and commitment, the other pushes us to find stability and intense connections. A healthy 7w6 would be quite balanced as a result with a rather optimistic view of life, a good amount of introspection and an ability to focus on things and give them full attention, like 5s. An unhealthy 7w6 would be more caught up in this conflict, manic, anxious eventually getting burned out.

I'm a 7w6 as well - also a sexual variant. It fits very well for me too - the sexual variant made SO much sense and explains why I thought I had some similarities with 4s, the forever pining. The variant brings with it a need for intense connections. I agree with you - it allows for a particular vulnerability. I think this is connected to basic fears: deprivation for 7s and security for 6s, a weird combination. One makes us fear staying still and commitment, the other pushes us to find stability and intense connections. A healthy 7w6 would be quite balanced as a result with a rather optimistic view of life, a good amount of introspection and an ability to focus on things and give them full attention, like 5s. An unhealthy 7w6 would be more caught up in this conflict, manic, anxious eventually getting burned out.

i feel 5w4 and 7w6 are really good at combating the larger problematic of anxiety as a whole (which stems from thought, or the head-center). 5 is over-expressed, 7 is under-expressed, 6 is out-of touch. 7s draw 5s out and benefit from 5s knowledge, whereas 5s get stuck soooo easily in their own mental traps. we go into dark areas just to prove we can handle it, then we often dig ourselves into a hole and wonder why life gets difficult for us. 6 seems pretty damn good for 4s, it gives 4s a sense of security and foundation and acceptance which helps them deal with their sense of shame.

the conceptual angles change slightly but one site said 4s project is leniency, 5s benevolence, 6s trustworthiness, 7s gentleness

the conceptual angles change slightly but one site said 4s project is leniency, 5s benevolence, 6s trustworthiness, 7s gentleness

I have some close friends who are 5s and they have been a great influence (INTJs). Natural partners in crime.

Could you tell us the site where you got the above from? Project as in what these types should be working on? Interesting that it is gentleness for 7s. I find 7w6s to have a different style of expression from the 7w8s. Is the former more gentle/differently not gentle?