Channel log from 11 March 2010 (all times are UTC)

vagrantc: hi - my usual evening question :D would you object to an _option_ for mounting the localapps (==fat client's) home dir with nfs instead of sshfs?

00:07

(having file-lock problems with evolution)

00:11

<vagrantc>

as long as it wasn't too crazy messy.

00:13

<alkisg>

Thanks, I'll give it a try

00:15

<vagrantc>

in general, i'm supportive of options. though i've started to see that too many options can get a bit burdensome on the codebase.

00:19

<alkisg>

It'd be easier if each "plugin" was in its own file, called with different options (config, initialization etc) on client startup, similar to how it is with ltsp-build-client...

00:26

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00:46

<alkisg>

Hmmm setting CKCON_X11_DISPLAY_DEVICE in /etc/security/pam_env.conf seems like the least intrusive way to make are local sessions CK-enabled

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01:56

<alkisg>

Hrm I wonder how I could call a script from pam_env.conf, e.g. CKCON_X11_DISPLAY_DEVICE=$(/usr/lib/ConsoleKit/ck-get-x11-display-device)

01:56

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02:03

<johnny>

have you talked to the console kid people?

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02:07

<alkisg>

johnny: where's that? any irc rooms?

02:07

or is it #freedesktop?

02:08

<johnny>

probably freedesktop

02:08

but don't they have a mailing list

02:08

or some other way to cross reference names to irc names :)

02:08

<alkisg>

urm, I'll give it another shot, but I didn't get any responses the last 2 days there :)

02:08

<johnny>

well try the mailing list

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04:09

<alkisg>

This makes fat client sessions work fine with consolekit, but it's a hack, can someone see a cleaner way? http://paste.ubuntu.com/393156/

04:09

CK is needed in order for PK to consider the current user as active, so that he can mount usb sticks etc

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04:14

<nubae>

hi folks

04:14

alkisg: u around?

04:15

<alkisg>

nubae: yes - but i'll leave soon to get my daughter from the school

04:15

<nubae>

ok, quick question, what do u think about this as a thin client: http://www.amazon.com/fit-PC-Slim-Linux/dp/B001L18ED2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268302366&sr=8-9

04:15

check the specs... the only thing that worries me is the 500mhz geode processor

04:16

<alkisg>

I'm not the right person to ask about hardware :)

04:16

I only use 10 year old pcs as thin clients... :)

04:16

<nubae>

hehe, ok, but take a look anyhow

04:17

its 199$ so its really affordable, I'm thinking about buying these for my school... I'd need about 20 units, but would like to buy one to test... I'm worried about specs, which I think u can evaluate better than I at this point

define without success? it will still start a ssh for authentication, but X is run outside the ssh tunnel for performance. what did you exect should happen ?

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04:53

<alkisg>

nubae: the latter would make a good fat client...

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05:18

<Comete>

hello

05:20

how can i change the LDM background image ?

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06:07

<nubae>

alkisg: of course, they dont ship to Europe :-)

06:07

so forget that idea :-)

06:07

damn amazon...

06:09

I tried installing local apps in my thin client and now I get busybox prompt

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07:00

<weenus>

This falls under category wtf. I was having a problem with ltsp starting up until I followed your directions I got below and then it stopped working until I undid the instructions and put the path back to /opt/ltsp/i386 in the dhcpd.conf file http://pastie.org/864852 Just thought that I'd let you know.

07:01

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07:13

<nubae>

sigh... enabling binary drivers in the chroot seems to be a spectactular pain in the ass

07:15

I guess Im going to have to downgrade the chroot to Jaunty

07:28

<alkisg>

Why?

07:30

In Lucid it's even possible to install many binary drivers simultaneously

07:30

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07:34

<anivair>

I don't suppose anyone knows how to break a .gvfs directory?

07:35

I have users that can't log in when I use a Term 1220. the problem is with the .gvfs directory somehow

07:35

the users that CAN log in on them have a .gvfs directory that is somehow broken, though it may be intentional.

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07:36

<anivair>

the last time I got around it, i tried to log them into the main server and set up desktop effects. That errors out (because I don't have the drivers) and after, the directory is as follows:

07:36

d????????? ? ? ? ? ? .gvfs

07:37

<alkisg>

Are you using localapps?

07:37

<anivair>

I don't even know how to do that on purpose, let alone accidentally

07:37

I am for a few items (phones)

07:37

<alkisg>

With SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=false, any attempts to create symlinks on sshfs fail, and files like this get created instead

07:38

So I guess those files got created when the users tried to mount a usb stick etc

07:38

<anivair>

where is that set? is it global?

07:38

<alkisg>

In lts.conf

07:38

<anivair>

hrm ... pretty sure it's not set in there

07:38

<alkisg>

It was the default setting for some time

07:39

<anivair>

I see

07:39

<alkisg>

You didn't have to set it manually...

07:39

distro/version?

07:39

<anivair>

so it probzably got set for them in an older version

07:39

karmic ubuntu

07:39

<alkisg>

I think it's the default in karmic

07:39

<anivair>

but many users were migrated from older versions

07:39

what WAS happening is that he just couldn't log in

07:40

it'd just drop him back out to the login screen when it tried to create a display

07:40

<alkisg>

***i'm saying all this backwards - SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS should be *true* on karmic. It's now been reverted to false on Lucid.

07:40

<anivair>

setting the .gvfs file to root ownership and 0 permissions got him in, but now it's laggy and buggy

07:40

which is not what I want, of course

07:40

<alkisg>

Just try to set SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=false

07:41

In lts.conf

07:42

<anivair>

will I need to rebuild my kernel after that, or just reboot the thin client?

07:42

<alkisg>

Reboot the client

07:42

<anivair>

I'll give it a shot

07:48

<nubae>

alkisg: because AMD, smart folks that they are do not support karmic or lucid

07:48

ive been trying to get the damn dribers working now for about a week

07:50

ati used to be so well supported, and now its like getting blood out of a stone to get it working

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07:52

<nubae>

alkisg: I now u're busy, but would u have time to look at a couple logos I did for my new IT school... I desperately need a second opinion and direction to go in...

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08:00

<anivair>

hrm ... well, that got me logged in (even after I changed back the ownership and permissions on .gvfs) but it's still laggy and buggy. I can't even seem to get more things open now.

08:00

(I have never had this much trouble with a login in my life)

08:03

<nubae>

anivair: have u checked to see the xsession-errors log file under /home/username/.xsession-errors

08:03

that often reveals clues

08:03

<anivair>

checking now

08:05

for the users that can login but nothing runs, I'm getting a lot of fatal IO error 11 (resource temporarily unavailable) on X server

08:06

... and apparently it's working fine on another thin client of the same make. what the hell is that? Hold on just a sec while I verrify.

08:06

<nubae>

are u sure u're not trying to run the same program from the same user on different machines?

08:06

that is a no no

08:07

u can only run one session per user... otherwise things can get hairy

08:08

<anivair>

I was trying ot run the phone (which is a localapp and also he does not have running on hte other login)

08:08

the only concurrency is his login

08:09

which should work AFAIK

08:10

but let me have him log out to make sure

08:13

<nubae>

well if its local app should be ok

08:13

its just non local apps, if its the same user u can get problems

08:15

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08:15

<mighty-d>

HI

08:15

we are thinking on a LTSP server running on a virtual machine, has this been done?, what are the results?

08:16

<Appiah>

yes it has been done

08:16

I dont see the problem?

08:17

<nubae>

the results are, ltsp running on a vm :p

08:17

sorry couldnt resist

08:17

<mighty-d>

Appiah, heh, there is no problem, do you know how it did in performance

08:17

nubae heh

08:17

:P

08:17

<Appiah>

well I never benchmarked any of my ltsp installs

08:17

vs non-virtual installs

08:17

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08:17

<Appiah>

O_o

08:17

<nubae>

they say u loose about 10% or so

08:17

its not much in any case

08:17

<Appiah>

10% what

08:18

<nubae>

performance in general

08:18

speed

08:18

<Appiah>

how was that messured?

08:18

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08:18

<mighty-d>

Appiah how many user load do you have on your ltsp, and what are your users using it for (education, work office, etc)

08:18

<Appiah>

and who are they? do you have any source

08:18

<nubae>

well, actually I'm talking about cpu based or something like virtualbox

08:18

<Appiah>

educational and offices

08:19

<mighty-d>

Appiah your largest virtualized LTSP deployment?

08:19

<Appiah>

I dont have a singel one , my customers have

08:19

<nubae>

ie... if its supported in the cpu, u should not see any differences

08:19

yes, I read it recently in Linux Format

08:19

<Appiah>

20 users me thinks

08:19

<nubae>

I cannot remember the author

08:19

nor do I care to go look it up :-=

08:19

<mighty-d>

ok, what are you using as the hypervisor?

08:20

<nubae>

kvm would probably be the best

08:20

or something like openvz

08:21

<Appiah>

vmware mighty-d

08:22

<anivair>

fixed ... sort of? I rep laced the thin client with a new one of the same model and it works. So either the old one was dying or they have changed some of the hardware on them since the last batch I bought (which was, admittedly, about 2 years ago)

08:22

<nubae>

well vmware is like virtualbox... the free version at least is not as fast as something like kvm

08:23

<mighty-d>

nubae, ok i think i will go with kvm, guys i really appreciate your help

08:23

<Appiah>

I would go xen

08:23

<nubae>

or xen yes

08:23

<mgariepy>

good morning everyone

08:23

<Appiah>

virtualbox is more "desktopish"

08:23

<nubae>

those are solutions that use the cpu directly to virtualise

08:24

<Appiah>

thought it can run headless

08:24

<nubae>

vmaware and virtualbox dont

08:24

<Appiah>

umm

08:24

Vmware what?

08:24

<nubae>

the free version that is

08:24

<Appiah>

there are tons of different vmware solutions

08:24

Vmware server?

08:24

<nubae>

commercial vmware does support cpu hypervisor directly

08:24

<Appiah>

Vmware Workstation (kind of like Virtualbox)

08:24

<nubae>

yeah

08:24

<Appiah>

ESXi supports cpu hypervisor

08:24

<nubae>

server is probably different

08:24

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08:25

<Appiah>

and thats free...

08:25

<nubae>

ok.. u know what I mean :-)

08:25

<Appiah>

no I dont seriously

08:25

<nubae>

I was being general, thats why I said some versions of vmware

08:25

<mighty-d>

heh

08:25

<nubae>

the most common ones /free ones in fact

08:26

<Appiah>

Virtualbox supports VT-x and such so it can speak directly to the cpu

08:26

<nubae>

yes but there are limitations

08:26

it doesnt do it in the same way as kvm or asxi

08:26

or xen

08:27

search for an article in llinux format about 3 or 4 months back

08:27

it explains it better than I can

08:27

<Appiah>

well you can get better performance from vmware and xen , then from vbox

08:28

<nubae>

agreed

08:28

though not vmware workstation or player

08:32

<mighty-d>

do you think it has a *lot* of benefits to go with 4 core xeon vs quad core ?

08:32

the price is outrageous!

08:38

<nubae>

depends for what, but if u have a large lab, u sure will notice the difference

and I've set Xdmcp true in /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc and * host in /etc/kde4/kdm/Xaccess

08:41

<mighty-d>

the server will also virtualize a router + ids, and a ldap server, and in a future a web app server

08:41

in think thats it

08:41

<markit>

but after username/password, I get the error ""This workstation isn't autorized to connect to the server" any clue?

08:41

<mighty-d>

nubae ^

08:41

<anivair>

anyone know, off hand, if the 1220 model thin client is a lot different now than it was last year or so? If not, i'm guessing mine have just gone bad somehow in the move.

08:44

<markit>

looks like is a ssh key problems (do I have to add the other host ssh keys in ltsp server?) or I should use a different connection way (I would like to have "pure" X-Window one)

08:44

<Gadi>

markit: you need to add the application server's public key to the chroot's known hosts

08:45

(and reroll the image)

08:46

markit: grab the latest version of ltsp-update-sshkeys: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/download/head%3A/x_Matt_Zimmerman_%3Cmatt.zimmerman%40canonical.com%3E_Wed_Jun__8_11%3A11%3A43_2005_3120.0/ltsp-update-sshkeys

08:46

<mighty-d>

nubae, thanks a lot... you have been very helpful

08:47

:)

08:47

<Gadi>

replace the one on the ltsp server (in /usr/sbin/)

08:47

<markit>

Gadi: any way to connect with normal X way? (no through ssh), would be much simpler (I'm not very expert)

08:47

<mighty-d>

Appiah thanks to you too

08:47

<Gadi>

markit: and run: ltsp-update-sshkeys -u <ip_of_app_server>

08:47

markit: you can, but you lose almost all the benefits of ltsp: localdev, localapps, sound, etc

08:48

<markit>

oh :(

08:48

<Gadi>

s/ltsp/ldm/

08:49

<markit>

I ask because I've logged with Xephyr in that server, so thought was easy do the same with thin clients

08:49

to be sincere, I just need to develop Ruby on rails app there, so no need of sound etc.

08:49

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08:50

<markit>

Gadi: I will follow your advice, but just for curiosity, do you know how use the other connection way? (simple X-Window)

08:51

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08:51

<Comete_>

hello again

08:51

<Gadi>

markit: SCREEN_07=startx or SCREEN_07=xdmcp

08:52

<Comete_>

is it possible to disable visual effects in gnome for all thinclients ?

08:52

<markit>

ltsp-update-sshkeys from chroot or from normal ltsp server?

08:52

when ssh keys changed in my server, I did not in chroot

08:52

(btw,I'm using debian)

08:53

<Comete_>

markit: from ltsp server

08:53

<markit>

Comete_: thanks

08:54

I just misinterpreted Gadi words

08:57

mm my version had no -u option, sigh, and I'm not happy trying to grab and install latest version

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08:58

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08:58

<tthorb>

Hi,

08:59

The solution for the freezing clients with intel video card has worked out.

08:59

It's been steady for a week now.

09:00

Another thing that is bugging me...

09:00

Is there some way to speed up Java?

09:01

A minute of waiting is a bit too much for the least patient ones...

09:01

I have a 64-bit server and 32-bit clients

09:01

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09:01

<laron_>

Have you looked at http://www.disklessworkstations.com/

09:01

<tthorb>

I've tried to use localapps, but it's still slow

09:02

<laron_>

(nevermind me)

09:02

<markit>

found an howto, thanks a lot for the tips, I will never have been able to figure out I think

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09:09

<markit>

mmm that howto is like the other host is a ltsp server itself, but is not

09:10

and keys created with simple ssh user@host and added in .ssh/known_hosts has a different format

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09:36

<sbalneav>

Morning all

09:38

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09:54

<jammcq>

Gooood morning #ltsp

09:56

<nubae>

ipsa scientia potestas est

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09:59

<alkisg>

nubae: sorry I was just leaving when you spoke - need anything?

10:05

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10:06

<alkisg>

johnny: here's a better way to have access to local devices for fat clients: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1250

10:07

With this, you can revert any policy changes you made..

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10:16

<nubae>

alkisg: cant remember now... oh yeah... wanted u to look at a logo if u have time,.. its for a school... need some creative input... but if u are very busy dont worry about it...

10:17

<alkisg>

My artistic skill are limited, I don't know if I could be of any use for that :)

10:17

<ogra>

everyone is an artist - joseph beuys

10:22

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10:25

<nubae>

alkisg: its more the fact that you are a teacher and could tell if this would be suitable for a school

10:25

<alkisg>

nubae, link?

10:25

<nubae>

let me upload to flicker hang on

10:25

<alkisg>

is it the one with the penguins?

10:26

<nubae>

ah, no... this is completely different

10:26

this is for the school I'm setting up

10:26

Its called Gnosis

10:26

which is knowledge in latin if I'm not mistaken

10:27

sorry greek

10:27

<alkisg>

Γνώσις :)

10:27

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10:27

<nubae>

there is another reason I wanted u to look at it, u'll see why soon...

10:27

<alkisg>

There are so many words that are considered as latin, while they're greek...

10:27

E.g. skolelinux says it's latin

10:27

Σχολή is greek...

10:27

<nubae>

gnosis is definetly greek though

10:28

I got mixed up because I have a latin saying underneath

10:28

which I would like to change to something greek... u'll see what I mean in a sec

10:29

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48075308@N05/4425238990/

10:29

<alkisg>

Cool

10:29

<nubae>

the latin in the diploma script says knowledge is power... is there something similar in greek or something better like, learning to learn or something

10:30

<alkisg>

It's fine - I'd just work a little on the diploma..

10:30

<nubae>

ok...

10:30

yeah gonna fill it in, I tried that already and it worked a bit better

10:30

but I was wondering about putting a greek saying there instead of latin

10:30

since the name itself is greek

10:30

any ideas?

10:31

<alkisg>

"Ισχύς διά της γνώσεως" is the ancient greek equivelant - but I don't know if anyone will understand it without using google.. ;D

10:31

<nubae>

not in cyrillic though

10:31

:-)

10:31

I'd want it phonetically latin

10:31

alphabet

10:31

<MorpheusDe>

alksig: Hi - Another question regarding thin vs thick clients - As I've already said a couple days ago I do not really like installing so much on the ltsp machine itself but

10:32

<alkisg>

That's hard.. let me try: ISCHIS DIA TIS GNOSEOS

10:32

<nubae>

hehe, that sounds good in any case

10:33

<MorpheusDe>

alksig: unfortunately it dit not work to install the ubuntu-desktop into the jail itself - What is actually modified and the exact difference when installing an app as local app within the jail than on the server?

10:33

<nubae>

I looked all over the web for some place that has greek sayings but with a latin alphabet... couldnt find anything

10:33

<alkisg>

MorpheusDe: did you follow the wiki page?

10:33

<MorpheusDe>

alksig: In other words why can't you install something like the whole ubuntu-desktop as local app?

10:33

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10:34

<alkisg>

Sure you can. You just need to mark the chroot as a fat client, though, i.e. touch /etc/ltsp_fat_chroot

10:34

Or, you could set LTSP_FATCLIENT=True in lts.conf

10:34

In other words, LTSP_FATCLIENT by default is true, if /etc/ltsp_fat_chroot exists, false otherwise, and of course can be overriden by lts.conf

10:35

<MorpheusDe>

but this only works starting 5.2, right?

10:35

<alkisg>

Yes

10:35

When LTSP_FATCLIENT is true, a local session is started instead of a remote one

10:36

<MorpheusDe>

Define session exactly, please

10:36

<alkisg>

The X session, after you login in ldm

10:37

<MorpheusDe>

you said you would go for a thick client in case the client is > 500 RAM and thin in case it's less

10:37

<alkisg>

Instead of running a remote x session on the ltsp server, a local x session is started

10:37

That's what I do, yup - others might have different advice

10:37

<MorpheusDe>

is this sort of paradigm change or just a matter of taste?

10:38

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10:38

<MorpheusDe>

you were faster :-)

10:38

<alkisg>

In my experience, clients with 1 Gb RAM run better as fat clients, while clients with 256 ram run better as thin clients

10:39

But, it always depends on the use cases..

10:40

<MorpheusDe>

Just to really understand the concept - Thick client --> Full blown os only served by the ltsp via network, no RDP session, own x-session, thin client --> minimal os served by ltsp just to boot up

10:40

anything else via rdp on the server, right?

10:40

<alkisg>

Yes, though it's not called rdp but remote X

10:43

<MorpheusDe>

I'm planning on moving to the next lts version of ubuntu but would like to use the fat client concept alreday. Do you think I'll run into trouble using stgraber's repo upgrading to 5.2 and afterwards upgrading to the new ubuntu lts release?

10:43

Probably I'm than already ahead with lts than the regular version served with the standard repos...

10:44

<alkisg>

You'd upgrade the karmic chroot to lucid instead of running ltsp-build-client again? It should work, but I wouldn't do it this way...

A question regarding italc - Do you know whether it's possible to have the master workstation on a different subnet than the clients?

10:57

<alkisg>

It's on every ppa page

10:57

(the link for the tutorial)

10:57

<MorpheusDe>

Ok thx

10:58

<alkisg>

Yes, you just lose autodetection and need to declare them manually

10:58

<MorpheusDe>

Hmm - so like right click in the class room manager and than select add client?

10:59

<alkisg>

Yes

10:59

<MorpheusDe>

I was not able to get that working....

10:59

<alkisg>

Or you could just save the autodetected clients before moving to a different subnet

10:59

<MorpheusDe>

The only thing I have to have open is port 5900 right?

11:00

<alkisg>

For ltsp? No, the ports are in the 11xxx range

11:00

and in 10xxx

11:00

<MorpheusDe>

I can telnet to the client using a console and port 5900 but italc does not connect...

11:01

<alkisg>

MorpheusDe: I'm in the middle of something, so I don't have much time to help you troubleshoot italc... maybe someone else does have the time though, so ask in general

11:02

<MorpheusDe>

no biggie - basically thing's are running right now - may I get back to you some other time?

11:03

<alkisg>

Usually we ask in the channel, and whoever's available or knows the answer, answers... but sure, np

11:03

<MorpheusDe>

thx

11:08

Can some one else maybe point me to another resource or provide any more hints on the italc / thin client / different sub net combo?

11:35

<kusznir>

I've got an off-topic question that someone here might be able to help me (all the "normal" places don't seem to be much help):

11:36

I'm trying to build a new ltsp server, and that server needs to authenticate against an active directory server. I've got samba and winbind configured (with the nsswitch and pam mods as well), and users can ssh in with their AD accounts just fine.

11:36

<johnny>

alkisg, i can wait til the next ppa is rolled i suppose :)

11:36

i don't need to try to already fix it

11:36

<alkisg>

ok

11:36

<kusznir>

However, whenever an AD user logs in, the X session starts to launch, gets most of the panel drawn, and then gets logged out.

11:37

<ogra>

did you check the log ?

11:37

<kusznir>

I haven't found any traces of error messages of use except in .xsession-errors, and those are tons of warnings from a variety of applications not being able to connect or get messages from dbus / system bus.

11:37

<ogra>

right

11:38

so there is your prob

11:38

(no idea how to solve it though, i have no clue about AD)

11:38

<kusznir>

So...I'm guessing that dbus is the problem, but I can't seem to find anyone who can tell me anything about why dbus isn't letting them connect). I can't find any info on how dbus "authenticates" users, or anyting like that.

11:39

The AD users appear as "normal users" on the system; getent passwd will show a convincing passwd file with all the users listed, etc.

11:39

<ogra>

all IPC is dont through dbus nowadays, usually a session dbus is fired up when the user logs in

11:39

s/dont/done/

11:39

<kusznir>

Oh, its not the main dbus that starts at system boot?

11:39

<ogra>

no, that provides system services

11:40

i.e. access to devices

11:40

the session bus connects to it

11:40

<kusznir>

Ok. Can you provide any details about when/how the session dbus is started or where to look for that process?

11:40

<ogra>

well, in case of a gnome session the gnome-session bianry fires up the session bus

11:40

*binary

11:41

not sure where other desktops do it

11:43

<kusznir>

This is a gnome session.

11:44

* Gadi thought that session dbus was started with /etc/X11/Xsession.d/75dbus_dbus-launch

11:44

<ogra>

Gadi, that was in feisty or so

11:45

<kusznir>

This is 9.10

11:45

<ogra>

it should be started by gnome-session since a while

11:45

<Gadi>

huh - so much for dist-upgrades :P

11:45

<johnny>

hmm.. i wish ltsp would stop being so annoying if you had bad video drivers or bad autologin passwords :(

11:46

<ogra>

hmm, i have it in lucid too

11:46

<johnny>

i can never get to the console

11:46

it just keeps flashing

11:46

<ogra>

so i'm probably misinformed and it was reverted

11:49

<kusznir>

johnny: it should give up after ~10 tries or so, and give you a couple minutes to get in :)

11:49

ogra: yes, I see I have that file as well...and it calls "/usr/bin/dbus-launch". I launched it on an SSH session of an AD user and it launched just fine.

11:50

<johnny>

kusznir, that is not the case that i've seen..

11:50

especially when autologin is failing :)

11:50

<kusznir>

Ahh...autologin might be the problem, especially with ldm...

11:50

<alkisg>

Shouldn't there be a parameter for "autologin only once" ?

11:52

<kusznir>

If X is just dying, then it should back off...But if X is starting successfully and then something else is killing it, especially if its alive for some minimum time (30 sec? 10 sec?) then it won't auto-backoff.

11:52

<johnny>

exactly

11:52

alkisg, see.. i was using key auth before

11:53

that definitely doesn't work if you're using a fat client

11:53

<alkisg>

johnny: what do you mean "key auth"? ssh key auth?

11:53

You're putting your private keys on the chroot?

11:54

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11:55

<johnny>

alkisg, yes, i was at the time

11:55

until i found a decent password generator

11:55

originally i was slightly hacked

11:55

in that somebody remotely logged in to a user account and setup a bouncer

11:56

when i was doing the LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD as host name

11:58

<kusznir>

Ok, if I start an X session with "XDM" (aka "failsafe") instead of "gnome", how do I manually kick off a gnome session inside that?

12:02

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12:06

<kusznir>

Ok, I ran Xsession, and that started up gnome. I got some errors this way (including a segfault that I don't know what belongs to it)

In greek we have separate words for beer / freedom, so there's no mixup

12:12

free as in beer = DOREAN, free as in freedom = ELEFTHERI...

12:13

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12:14

<nubae>

Ior something like learn to be free

12:14

gah duuno

12:14

<Gadi>

kusznir: it looks like with this recipe, your AD users can get uids between 500-1000

12:14

kusznir: this may be problematic on ubuntu

12:15

kusznir: perhaps you should increase the minimum above 1000

12:15

<kusznir>

I did change a few things, and that's one of them.

12:15

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12:15

<kusznir>

Actually, I just realized I sent the wrong link...https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryWinbindHowto

12:15

And I used the "rid" instructions toward the end. My UID/GID mapping is 10000-20000

12:16

The "newer syntax" section is actually broke; I used the block above it under "Adding more htan one linux machine to a windows network"

12:17

<laron>

We have a Windows 2008 Server hosting all our files. I'd like to make a link for every user to be able to access the files. Do I do accomplish that by editing the new user skeleton or by editing the ltsp image in some way

12:17

?

12:19

<kusznir>

laron: editing /etc/skel will only make it effective for new acounts created; you'd need to write a script to add it to all existing accounts as well as add it to /etc/skel.

12:19

laron: my understanding of what you want to do would need to be done on the server, not the clients.

12:22

<alkisg>

laron: maybe you could do that with an /etc/xdg/autostart script

12:22

<Gadi>

laron: you may want to use the pam_mount method described on this page (unless the share is public): https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ActiveDirectoryIntegration

12:22

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12:22

<alkisg>

Heh

12:23

<Gadi>

kusznir: I doubt your problem is dbus related

12:24

kusznir: but, I could be wrong

12:25

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12:25

<kusznir>

Well, I'm aslo chatting over in #gnome, and just did some testing. It appears that dbus packets are somehow getting addressed to (null destination)....don't know why/where. It does appear that dbus is launching correctly and remaining launched.

12:26

Although I do agree that this should not be a factor of the dbus issue, but something with winbind/samba. Nobody over in #samba is being any help, though.

12:26

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12:26

<kusznir>

The main thing people use this configuration for is gui logins, too...so I don't know why its blowing up so bad on me...

12:28

<alkisg>

kusznir: I'm not good on pam stuff, but it seems to me that you need both auth + session pam, and you're missing the session pam...

12:28

I may be saying stupid things, though.

12:28

<kusznir>

I was wondering about that...they did have me add the mkhomedir to the pam session file, but nothing with winbind.

12:33

<Gadi>

kusznir: I have been using likewise-open for such deployments without issue

12:33

(ie without dbus issues)

12:39

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12:41

<laron>

how do i disable the terminal for ltsp clients?

12:41

or just remove it from the menu

12:41

(only for clients)

12:45

is this a dumb question?

12:46

<johnny>

sabayon is the way to go

12:46

!sabayon

12:46

<ltspbot>

johnny: Error: "sabayon" is not a valid command.

12:46

<johnny>

sbalneav, what should i type to point to your ppa for versions earlier than lucid?

12:46

<Appiah>

if you run gnome use the lockdown tools for gnome

12:46

or sabayon

12:47

<johnny>

laron, you need to get it from sbalneav's ppa on launchpad if you want to use it in karmic or earlier

12:47

<laron>

ok

13:00

<alkisg>

gconf_editor ==> /desktop/gnome/lockdown/disable_command_line ==> right click and set as the default. Selected admins can enable it manually.

13:11

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13:20

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13:23

<alkisg>

Yup, nfs home is much better for fat clients... evolution works fine with it.

13:33

...and google earth and google chrome. So an NFS_HOME=xxx option would be nice to have for localapps/fat clients...

13:52

<vagrantc>

was nice to have it all working through the ssh tunnel ... *sigh*

13:53

<alkisg>

well, if sshfs starts supporting file locks and null cipher etc, we may remove nfs support then

13:54

<vagrantc>

the speed is also too slow?

13:54

<alkisg>

nfs feels faster than sshfs, but I haven't tried with anything big yet

13:55

I think sshfs would be limited by my cpu to 5 mb/sec, while nfs would be limited by my disk/net speed...

13:56

OK, so: NFS_HOME=/home or <ip>:/home in lts.conf. If <ip> is not set, $SERVER will be used.

13:56

The admin is expected to install nfs-kernel-server and modify /etc/exports,

13:57

and set LATE_PACKAGES=nfs-client on ltsp-build-client.conf

13:57

It shouldn't take more than 10 lines in the current code...

14:00

<thunsucker>

has anyone used an usb bridge that you guys have heard about?

14:00

I'm trying to test out the theory of using a wireless bridge to boot wireless ltsp clients

14:02

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14:07

<vagrantc>

thunsucker: you'll still have very limited bandwidth for the thin clients... as all the clients share the same airwaves.

14:07

<thunsucker>

vagrantc: i understand that, and each client will be getting their own bridge

14:07

1 for 1

14:07

our building is absolutely saturated with 30+ cisco WAPs

14:08

<vagrantc>

well, *all* the bridges share the same bandwidth...

14:09

putting more wireless traffic in the air doesn't increase the amount of available bandwidth...

14:09

maybe for the purposes you're doing, it will be acceptible, but it's going to be a significant limitation

14:10

<thunsucker>

vagrantc: I don't see why it cause any problems, the clients might be a little slower to boot, but shouldn't be that bad

14:10

<kusznir>

thunsucker: its not just the booting..its actually streaming all the window updates and the like.

14:11

<vagrantc>

thunsucker: the entire graphical session goes over the network... every mouse move, every moving object on the screen, etc. all goes over the wireless...

14:11

<kusznir>

In my experiences, in order to support decent flash performance, I need to run about 250mbps per client. You will only get 10% of that on wifi under good conditions.

14:11

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14:11

<thunsucker>

ahhh I see what you guys are saying now

14:12

<kusznir>

And on 802.11(g), there are only three non-overlapping channels. Thus, if you have more than 3 APs in a space that can "see" each other, you're impeeding yoru own throughput.

14:12

(I have a real problem when people install a bunch of APs in a small area and expect that to "handle the load better"....)

14:12

<thunsucker>

kusznir: no I understand, from about any point in the building you can see 2-4 AP's

14:13

<kusznir>

thunsucker: if you were making netbooting thick clients (most/all programs/apps run locally), then you might get acceptable performance.

14:13

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14:13

<thunsucker>

i never thought about the wireless throughput problem, they do a lot of flash type learning games

14:13

<laron>

should i expect any problems running the ltsp server on a 64 bit machine with 32 bit clients? i'm assuming no

14:13

<kusznir>

However, in my experience, its always better to wire than go wireless....occasionally wireless does have issues, and its far more often than wired.

14:14

laron: no, I'm doing that now.

14:14

<thunsucker>

kusznir: right now they're th in clients but I'm thinking about converting some of them to fat clients

14:14

<laron>

ok, thanks

14:14

<thunsucker>

kusznir: i agree wired is better, but this customer had a ton of funding from the government (it's a school) to put the wireless in, and now the government is frowning upon adding any more drops

14:15

<laron>

would anyone have recomendations for thin clients? right now i'm looking at the ones on disklessworkstations.com

14:15

<kusznir>

If this is 802.11(g), I think your customer will be sorely dissapointed with the performance.

14:15

I'm coming pretty darn close to saturating a gig-e link right now with my ~15 thin clients...You'll never get that over wifi.

14:16

laron: no experience there. I've been running Devon IT TC-5's...they're a bit expensive ($320/ea), but they're solid and powerful (and can run 1920x1080 DVI with intel graphics acceleration)

14:17

But there's lots of options out there....

14:17

Anyway, gotta go to a meeting...afk for a while.

14:17

<thunsucker>

kusznir: the only different is that i'm running the rdesktop screen script

14:17

<laron>

just wondering if there are any particular ones that are know to be good machines

14:18

known*

14:18

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14:20

<thunsucker>

laron: wait for CAN-OH-SPAM or something like that, he works for them

14:20

laron: I also think usupur or something like works for them also

14:20

laron: never hurts to call, those guys are good

14:21

<laron>

alright

14:28

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16:00

<alkisg>

LOCAL_APPS is true by default, right? Because `man lts.conf` states that it is false...

16:00

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16:10

<laron>

yes but if you haven't installed any applications to run locally, then no apps will run locally

16:10

sorry, your making a statement?

16:11

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16:13

<ogra>

laron, the documentation is out of sync is his statement

16:18

<alkisg>

ogra understands greek people... :D

16:18

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16:18

<ogra>

alkisg, we sync the ltsp-docs package from debian ...

16:19

which is surely behind in lenny :)

16:19

make sure vagrantc knows ;)

16:19

<alkisg>

Hmm you think sbalneav fixed that? k, I'll take a look tomorrow

16:25

OK, here it is - NFS /home support for localapps and fat clients, enables some programs that need file locks to run locally: http://paste.ubuntu.com/393587/