SirT wrote:Jake + Harrison put up 15 PPB on Penn Bowl. To be fair, that was an ACF and not an NAQT tournament, but it shows pretty well how they scale up on harder questions.

I don't think that level of play on DII SCT questions is an accurate predictor of DI ICT performance, but I don't know that cherrypicking one tournament that half the team played is, either. I think a better argument would be ACF Regionals, where me+Jake+JT put up a not-very-good-but-not-terrible 15.5 ppb, which (IIRC) was good for 15th nationally (with some teams playing at partial strength, of course).

EDIT: But I really don't want this to turn into some "Alabama's great/Alabama sucks" flamewar, so I'll just say that, IMO, we'll most likely end up somewhere south of 9th place and somewhere north of 20th.

Serious Games Showcase and Challenge wrote:We're not exactly adding two nontrivial components to the "Jake/Harrison one-two punch" or whatever people fathom our team to be. In addition, we have obvious strengths that NAQT sets allow us to exploit. In addition, I'm presuming the science editing is going to be good in all subject areas, so that should benefit us as well (Not saying Penn Bowl's science editor was anything but good, but I'm expecting ICT's science editing to be far above the average for this year). Harrison is not our leading scorer or necessarily our best player, he's "another scorer" - we have four people that can do that - who the best player is almost always changes from round to round. Just because Dargan has been MIA doesn't mean I will kill him before the tournament or that he doesn't provide as much scoring as the guy to the left or right of him on our team, or maybe the guy two seats down.

You can post about how good you actually are all you want; no matter what you or Bradley Kirksey think, you're not going to finish tenth, ninth or in the top bracket.

What is it like to be a Batman? wrote:I don't think that level of play on DII SCT questions is an accurate predictor of DI ICT performance, but I don't know that cherrypicking one tournament that half the team played is, either. I think a better argument would be ACF Regionals, where me+Jake+JT put up a not-very-good-but-not-terrible 15.5 ppb, which (IIRC) was good for 15th nationally (with some teams playing at partial strength, of course).

EDIT: But I really don't want this to turn into some "Alabama's great/Alabama sucks" flamewar, so I'll just say that, IMO, we'll most likely end up somewhere south of 9th place and somewhere north of 20th.

I really wasn't cherrypicking; it was just the first tournament that came to mind that I thought Alabama might have played. Your Regionals performance simply corroborates my point about scaling up. (I'm not trying to say you suck--I just don't think you'll do as well as your D2 SCT performance suggests. Judging by your post, I think you agree).

SirT wrote:You can post about how good you actually are all you want; no matter what you or Bradley Kirksey think, you're not going to finish tenth, ninth or in the top bracket.

I'm not the one "bragging about being good" or anything. I'm just saying that you seem to assume that adding our two other parts will make a nontrivial difference in where we end up at the end of the day, which is so far from the truth it's not even funny. You use a Penn Bowl stat that cannot possibly determine the quality of our entire team as half of our team was not in attendance. Where we end up is where we end up, and there's no real way to determine where it will be with the statistics that you have available because you haven't been given anything tangible to work with. You can't say for sure that we won't end up in the top 10 with what you have available, like you can't say we will. My prediction that we would finish 10th wasn't some kind of attack on the community, it was a legitimate prediction based on what I know about my team. For what it's worth, I think our D-value definitely would have been a bit higher if we were given the chance to play the DI set at full strength against a decent field.

Serious Games Showcase and Challenge wrote:I'm not the one "bragging about being good" or anything. I'm just saying that you seem to assume that adding our two other parts will make a nontrivial difference in where we end up at the end of the day, which is so far from the truth it's not even funny. You use a Penn Bowl stat that cannot possibly determine the quality of our entire team as half of our team was not in attendance. Where we end up is where we end up, and there's no real way to determine where it will be with the statistics that you have available because you haven't been given anything tangible to work with. You can't say for sure that we won't end up in the top 10 with what you have available, like you can't say we will. My prediction that we would finish 10th wasn't some kind of attack on the community, it was a legitimate prediction based on what I know about my team. For what it's worth, I think our D-value definitely would have been a bit higher if we were given the chance to play the DI set at full strength against a decent field.

I'm assuming no such thing and you're a nitwit for thinking so (and a further nitwit for pulling the Dargan Ware card AGAIN). I'm not predicating any prediction (especially considering mine is you won't finish as high as you or Bradley think) based on how you did at x tournament--my point was simply to show that you don't scale up as well as the other top teams. I'll tell you what, $10,000. $10,000 bet says you don't finish in the top 10. I can also assure you that your D value would have been much worse if you'd played the DI set at full strength against three bad southern teams, let alone a decent field.

SirT wrote:I'll tell you what, $10,000. $10,000 bet says you don't finish in the top 10.

The thread just went full Mitt Romney.

Last edited by Rococo A Go Go on Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nick ConderLouisville, KY

"Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free."--Eugene V. Debs

Edit: Actually, that just came off as bitchy, which is because I'm annoyed, because no one outside of Jake Sundberg and maybe Cody Voight cares about this stupid argument, including me. Except it'll reflect poorly on Jake and thus I get to bask in some of the reflected Internet-Tough-Guyness, o joy! o rapture!

Serious Games Showcase and Challenge wrote:I'm not the one "bragging about being good" or anything. I'm just saying that you seem to assume that adding our two other parts will make a nontrivial difference in where we end up at the end of the day, which is so far from the truth it's not even funny. You use a Penn Bowl stat that cannot possibly determine the quality of our entire team as half of our team was not in attendance. Where we end up is where we end up, and there's no real way to determine where it will be with the statistics that you have available because you haven't been given anything tangible to work with. You can't say for sure that we won't end up in the top 10 with what you have available, like you can't say we will. My prediction that we would finish 10th wasn't some kind of attack on the community, it was a legitimate prediction based on what I know about my team. For what it's worth, I think our D-value definitely would have been a bit higher if we were given the chance to play the DI set at full strength against a decent field.

I'm assuming no such thing and you're a nitwit for thinking so (and a further nitwit for pulling the Dargan Ware card AGAIN). I'm not predicating any prediction (especially considering mine is you won't finish as high as you or Bradley think) based on how you did at x tournament--my point was simply to show that you don't scale up as well as the other top teams. I'll tell you what, $10,000. $10,000 bet says you don't finish in the top 10. I can also assure you that your D value would have been much worse if you'd played the DI set at full strength against three bad southern teams, let alone a decent field.

I don't have that much money, Mitt. But I do have $20 in my pocket. Let's bet $20.

Serious Games Showcase and Challenge wrote:I'm not the one "bragging about being good" or anything. I'm just saying that you seem to assume that adding our two other parts will make a nontrivial difference in where we end up at the end of the day, which is so far from the truth it's not even funny. You use a Penn Bowl stat that cannot possibly determine the quality of our entire team as half of our team was not in attendance. Where we end up is where we end up, and there's no real way to determine where it will be with the statistics that you have available because you haven't been given anything tangible to work with. You can't say for sure that we won't end up in the top 10 with what you have available, like you can't say we will. My prediction that we would finish 10th wasn't some kind of attack on the community, it was a legitimate prediction based on what I know about my team. For what it's worth, I think our D-value definitely would have been a bit higher if we were given the chance to play the DI set at full strength against a decent field.

I'm assuming no such thing and you're a nitwit for thinking so (and a further nitwit for pulling the Dargan Ware card AGAIN). I'm not predicating any prediction (especially considering mine is you won't finish as high as you or Bradley think) based on how you did at x tournament--my point was simply to show that you don't scale up as well as the other top teams. I'll tell you what, $10,000. $10,000 bet says you don't finish in the top 10. I can also assure you that your D value would have been much worse if you'd played the DI set at full strength against three bad southern teams, let alone a decent field.

I don't have that much money, Mitt. But I do have $20 in my pocket. Let's bet $20.

When will coach Borglum be on the "hot seat"--Valencia hasn't won a title in three years now...perhaps it's time for younger blood.

My seat is already hot because my ass is in it!!! Ohhhhhhhhh!!!

It would be awesome if there were enough attention to our game to have alumni calling for my head; maybe someone can start the "Fire Borglum" website now (though that firing would probably be predicated on my many moral failings rather than coaching).

But in seriousness, it's a bummer that in terms of pure knowledge I've got the best team I've ever had this year and we can't come close to Paul's Chipola team. But I've got a good one coming back, so when y'all see him in Chicago, encourage him to head to UF now`rather than spend another year in CC.

ValenciaQBowl wrote:We'll be there with two teams, and we'd a-beat Snead, too, exceptn them weren't able get a invite.

Sadly all Snead's talent graduated to bigger and better things.

Roll Tide!!, but to get back on topic I'll throw my two cents in the prediction pool.

Division 1: Yale (Tough choice because I could also see Bollinger and UVA winning it too)Division 2: MSU - They basically blew everyone out of the water at their sectional and Joe has a nice supporting cast of players. Harvard is definitely going to be in contention as well, I'd love to watch a match between them and MSU.Top CC: Chipola, they have a Kelson. No further explanation needed there.

As a side note, I'd love to play Valencia and get revenge from the CCCT loss to them on a trash question last year! (Bring it on Borglum )

I'm too far out of the loop to make accurate predictions about D2, but if I had to make a list of pretty-decent-to-downright-impressive-at-times players that most people haven't heard of, MSU's Shan Kothari would certainly be pretty high on the list. I'm really interested to see how MSU does.

I see the front-runners for DII as Harvard (tough to beat if Graham and David both play which I think they are) and Michigan State (who put up superb numbers at their sectional). Notre Dame is pretty solid, as is Michigan. The Minnesota team that had the 4th highest D-value at SCT is adding the second highest scorer from the 17th highest D value team, so that team will hopefully make some noise too.

When will coach Borglum be on the "hot seat"--Valencia hasn't won a title in three years now...perhaps it's time for younger blood.

My seat is already hot because my ass is in it!!! Ohhhhhhhhh!!!

It would be awesome if there were enough attention to our game to have alumni calling for my head; maybe someone can start the "Fire Borglum" website now (though that firing would probably be predicated on my many moral failings rather than coaching).

But in seriousness, it's a bummer that in terms of pure knowledge I've got the best team I've ever had this year and we can't come close to Paul's Chipola team. But I've got a good one coming back, so when y'all see him in Chicago, encourage him to head to UF now`rather than spend another year in CC.

I will address the elephant in the room. I will neither confirm nor deny that Valencia has contacted me concerning a possible coaching opportunity with a formerly successful student group at their institution. I will address this issue further at the conclusion of the tournament Saturday in Chicago. It is nice to be mentioned with the likes of some great coaches, but I am not leaving Kentucky - whether it be for the Valencia opening or the Knicks job.

Predictions: Chipola finishes 3rd, and U of L takes down big blue in a shocker.

Habitat_Against_Humanity wrote:I'm too far out of the loop to make accurate predictions about D2, but if I had to make a list of pretty-decent-to-downright-impressive-at-times players that most people haven't heard of, MSU's Shan Kothari would certainly be pretty high on the list. I'm really interested to see how MSU does.

Yeah, thanks everyone for mentioning me, but we would not be half the team we are without Shan. I'd never heard of him until I started at MSU this year, and now he just randomly first lines tossups on things noone else on our team knows.

Joe NutterPACEMichigan State University '14Walnut Hills High School '11

Yeah, thanks everyone for mentioning me, but we would not be half the team we are without Shan. I'd never heard of him until I started at MSU this year, and now he just randomly first lines tossups on things noone else on our team knows.

At the risk of turning this into some kind of festival of mutual congratulations, I would say Connor is probably the most impressive player on our team most of the time. I certainly wouldn't be shocked if you did better at ICT, though, especially since you're more of an NAQT player. I'm not too quick on the buzz, so I doubt that much of our success can be attributed to me, except inasmuch as I help our PPB.

My prediction for DII, of course, is either us or Harvard. But I wouldn't underestimate Michigan, especially now that besides Peter and Ryan, I think they'll also have Rob Cernak.

Shan Kothari

Plymouth High School '10Michigan State University '14University of Minnesota '19 (hopefully!)

Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:Maybe this year the Valencias, Harvards, and UVA's of the world will still be the favorites, but unless our schools start taking ICT a lot more seriously, we are going to fall behind the Icelandic:

Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:Maybe this year the Valencias, Harvards, and UVA's of the world will still be the favorites, but unless our schools start taking ICT a lot more seriously, we are going to fall behind the Icelandic:

Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:Maybe this year the Valencias, Harvards, and UVA's of the world will still be the favorites, but unless our schools start taking ICT a lot more seriously, we are going to fall behind the Icelandic:

Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:Maybe this year the Valencias, Harvards, and UVA's of the world will still be the favorites, but unless our schools start taking ICT a lot more seriously, we are going to fall behind the Icelandic:

SirT wrote:I'm assuming no such thing and you're a nitwit for thinking so (and a further nitwit for pulling the Dargan Ware card AGAIN). I'm not predicating any prediction (especially considering mine is you won't finish as high as you or Bradley think) based on how you did at x tournament--my point was simply to show that you don't scale up as well as the other top teams. I'll tell you what, $10,000. $10,000 bet says you don't finish in the top 10. I can also assure you that your D value would have been much worse if you'd played the DI set at full strength against three bad southern teams, let alone a decent field.

1. $20 coming your way, just send me an address I can mail a check to in a PM.2. I was two spots off, geez. The nitwit loses despite pulling his famous card.

Also, I'm severely disappointed nobody saw Delaware coming in DII. Was one of their players recruited by UVA or something, but then decided to stay in-state to be closer to their deafblind sister?

I didn't see them coming, and I'm not shocked that nobody else saw them coming. Nobody saw Delaware coming because they just didn't do very well at sectionals. What I'm guessing happened is that one of their players (probably Joe Brosch) couldn't go to sectionals but did make it to ICT. They were a good team all around and put up a good fight the two times we played against them.

What was perhaps more surprising was UCF. Even though their D-value was 12th, I definitely did not expect them to make it into the top bracket. In retrospect, I should have.

Shan Kothari

Plymouth High School '10Michigan State University '14University of Minnesota '19 (hopefully!)

Nah. Delaware can keep their shocker of the year award. They come off the wait list the week of ICT. One of their players said he spent about 11 hours a day on quiz bowl during spring break. And it evidently paid off. Good for them.

Thanks, though. We did far better than any of us reasonably expected. I was convinced when I saw our bracket we would end up 4-3 and in second bracket.

I still wish we didn't lose to Valencia B and could have played Harvard for a national championship.

Bradley Kirksey Mayor of quiz bowl at the University of Central Florida (2010-2015)

bradleykirksey wrote:Nah. Delaware can keep their shocker of the year award. They come off the wait list the week of ICT. One of their players said he spent about 11 hours a day on quiz bowl during spring break. And it evidently paid off. Good for them.

Really? Wow, that really is impressive. Do you know if any of their ICT players were actually missing at sectionals?

bradleykirksey wrote:I still wish we didn't lose to Valencia B and could have played Harvard for a national championship.

I was surprised to learn during lunchtime that you guys had won the bracket outright, only to lose to Valencia B. I feel the same way about our prelim loss to MIT, which should not have happened - especially considering that we beat them pretty soundly later in the day. But if either of us had won those prelim games, we still would've tied with NYU, right?

What happened in the Valencia B game, anyway?

Shan Kothari

Plymouth High School '10Michigan State University '14University of Minnesota '19 (hopefully!)

Just to clarify, we brought the same sectionals team plus one player, and I think the 4th player (Matt) really helped us in tight situations, whereas we had lost some of those close games at SCT. And I don't want to sound corny, but I just want to give a shout out to all of the teams in the top bracket, I had never been in a 4 way tie like that before and almost all of the matches in the bracket were close and intense. I think I aged a little by the end of the tournament.

Alex GrossDelaware '14

"I have something to say about the difference between American and European cities. But I've forgotten what it is. I have it written down at home somewhere." - David Byrne