Mobocracy at Ben-Gurion Airport

Journalist Larry Derfner came to Tel Aviv airport to cover the arrival of international activists. Once in the reception hall, a small Israeli mob turned on him. In a matter of seconds, he found himself in a police van

Anybody who believes the platitude that the people want peace, it’s just the leaders who want war, should have been at Ben-Gurion Airport today. It’s a good thing those Free Palestine activists got arrested; otherwise, the little mob that formed spontaneously would have punched them up pretty good.

Only minutes after I got to the Arrivals hall, a few activists stood in front of the phalanx of reporters and cameramen, help up their little signs and started chanting “Israel Apartheid” and ”Free Palestine!” The cops tore the signs from their hands and started pushing them toward the exit. After the first couple of minutes of watching in shocked silence, people in the terminal started to boo. Men were cursing loudly – “sons of bitches,” “garbage,” and things in Arabic I didn’t understand.

A couple of dozen people, mainly men but also a few women, followed very close behind the tightly-bunched demonstrators, cops and reporters to the police van. “Throw them in the garbage,” shouted one woman. An old man tried to get at one of the activists, but the police stopped him.

I was there ostensibly as a journalist, and I was scribbling notes, but I felt cowardly not saying anything to these nationalist hooligans, so I started telling them in Hebrew, “What are these people doing?” The woman who wanted them thrown in the garbage said, “They’re hurting us!” I said, “They’re talking,” and the little mob turned on me, a couple of the men raised their fists. The woman told me, “Go back home, get out of here,” I said, “I live here.” The cops mistook me for a demonstrator, put me in the police van, but when I showed them my press card, they let me go.

Let me repeat – the police started off arresting the demonstrators, but very shortly their main task was to keep them from being assaulted. They had to hold back the herd = and that’s what these people were, a herd incited by the idea that these protesters, non-violent protesters trying to get to the West Bank, were a menace, an immediate threat to their security.

And I do not buy the idea that these people are helpless pawns being manipulated by the government, the media, the right-wing politicians. Most Israelis, even if they wouldn’t join a mob like the one at the airport, want to hear the belligerent rhetoric the opinion-makers are feeding them. They hate anybody who says anything bad about Israel, and take their words automatically as “blood libels.” The opinion-makers know this, and the ones who are popular and want to stay that way tell the people what they want to hear.

Who’s manipulating whom is a chicken-and-egg question.

Watching my enraged countrymen at Ben-Gurion, I imagined the daily headlines having been distilled into a kind of political methadrine and mainlined into their veins. Few Israelis would join them in physically going after people chanting slogans. But in their insistence that protesters like these be silenced because their words are acts of violence, acts of war, of terrorism, they represent the majority. They are an authentic expression of the national will. Theirs is the loudest voice in the land, it’s joined by the voice of Netanyahu, the government, the settlers and most of the media. All competing voices are drowned out.

Which is why these foreign activists on these flotillas, whatever I or anybody else thinks of the totality of their politics, are absolutely vital not only to the Palestinians, but to Israel. They’re bringing oxygen to a suffocating nation.

Larry Derfner is a journalist and an op-ed contributor for the Jerusalem Post. This post was published on his joint blog with 972′s Dimi Reider, Israel Reconsidered, and is re-posted here with the author’s permission.

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COMMENTS

While Israel is figuratively suffocating in the toxic fumes of Jewish-supremacism – Palestine and Palestinians are being literally suffocated in tear gas, having their actual lands taken from them by noxious settlers, and still having their families torn asunder and kept apart by very real borders, with very real bullets shot into their entirely physical bodies.

Larry, this is not about how wonderful it is of the activists to come help the Israelis. Not everything needs to be measured with the “is it good for the Jews?” yardstick.

This one is about Palestine, and the Palestinians, for whom the Zionist Jewish-supremacists were very not-good.

Reply to Comment

IsraelAddict

FridayJuly 8, 2011

You really are not the brightest journalist – why did the people go ballistic at the so called activists? Because they were saying things like “welcome to Palestine” when they were standing in ISRAEL proper. I agree with the woman who said to you ‘go home’ just because you live in ISRAEL doesn’t mean you are home.

Reply to Comment

Sam Smith

FridayJuly 8, 2011

Seriously? What I read here is that the police defended Larry and he wasn’t arrested. And actually, most of the people in the photo seem to be journalists. So perhaps the press is largely to blame for fanning these non-events?

Reply to Comment

AngelaJerusalem

FridayJuly 8, 2011

Larry, I recall the poisonous crowds that came out after every suicide bomb to taunt Rabin. And I also recall Leah Rabin asking, “Where did they go?” once her husband was dead and Netanyahu in power, when bombs were still going off. So I personally wouldn’t be surprised if they were sent. It’s been done before, why not now?

Reply to Comment

Empress Trudy

FridayJuly 8, 2011

It’s funny though. All the other times you’re screaming for a total boycott of everything Jewish. When Israel shrugs and says ‘ok’ you scream to be allowed in in droves.

Reply to Comment

Empress Trudy

FridayJuly 8, 2011

Could we have a party every time some rockets hit Sderot?

Reply to Comment

Sam Smith

FridayJuly 8, 2011

What’s really funny is the activists always denouncing Israel for using “excessive force”, and then complaining when no force is used.

Reply to Comment

NormanF

FridayJuly 8, 2011

Larry Derfner calls himself a Zionist but he sides with Israel’s enemies. True Zionists know where they stand. That’s not really a personal attack. Its a question of Derfner’s values. It can witnessed in how he views his own countrymen. Israelis are not an unreasonable people. But they will defend their country from meddling foreigners who know nothing about it!

Reply to Comment

Moshe Ben

FridayJuly 8, 2011

Trudy, give me some statistics. How many rockets hit Sderot daily? In comparison, how many Palestinians are harassed and victimized daily by the Khazar “jews” (yes, the fair-skinned Central Asian converts). Who is the victim here? If you corner someone and continuously make their life a living hell, what do you expect them to do? Just sit placidly and thank you? The Khazars are the biggest racists and anti-Semites (yes, the Arabs are Semites) I have ever encountered.

Reply to Comment

Right Wing Zionist

FridayJuly 8, 2011

“And I do not buy the idea that these people are helpless pawns being manipulated”(Larry Derfner)

Yea, seems like a lot of manipulation is going on. Are you pretending that the so called activists arriving to Israel and who are trying to defame and vilify Israel, are not manipulated?

Reply to Comment

Right Wing Zionist

FridayJuly 8, 2011

“Trudy, give me some statistics. How many rockets hit Sderot daily?”(Moshe Ben)
One rocket would be too many dear Moshe. I am sure you would agree with me if it would be you and your family who would be the targets.

By the way, your Khazar theory is pure unadulterated BS which shows your personal hatred of Jews. According to the likes of you, Jews should just meekly submit to murderous Arab attacks and Jews should allow their families be slaughtered by Arab haters like the ones who exterminated an entire Jewish family in Itamar. Father, Mother and three children, one of whom was a baby. Jews should just pull their necks in and allow Arabs the freedom to carry out their massacres of Jews in peace, right Moshe? By the way, is that your real name? Are you a Khazar too, or did you invent that lie just for the rest of us?

Reply to Comment

Philos

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

@ Right Wing Zionist. What’s the connection between the patently racist Khazar theory and your strange belief that Jews ought to be suicidal? Your rant is completely inconsistent and frothing at the mouth. Your arguments have no connection to one another and you’re just proving Derfner’s point that there’s an influential angry mob riven with inchoate combination of fear and hatred. If you want to make a point make a point; don’t throw in a bunch of cliches together.

Reply to Comment

Philos

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

@ Normanf. I am Israeli and I firmly know where I stand: against the occupation, the Rabbinate and the “white-shirt” fascists of the Religious Zionist movement. In fact I concur that a true Zionist knows where he stands and wants to see an enlightened “Altneuland” rise in place of this squat, racist, little country. An true Zionist wants to see an Israel worthy of the humanist values pioneered and fought for by generations of Jews for the last two-hundred years. A true Zionist doesn’t want Israel to become a mirror, a Golem even, of everything Jews from 1789 to 1848 and 1917 fought against: an ethnocentric autocracy.

Reply to Comment

Deïr Yassin

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

@ Philos
Well, if we didn’t know the history of Zionism and its misdeeds on the ground, we’d nearly be convinced by your praise to the humanist values, wouldn’t we ?
I just wonder how ‘humanist values’ go with the ethnic cleansing and the establishment of this earthly paradise (Herzl’ ‘Altneuland’) on other people’s land and at their costs.
Or ‘a land without a people for a people without land’ is still part of your Zionist illusions ?
I don’t know if the ‘original sin’ is a Jewish concept too, but it’s there from preventing the State of Israel of ever becoming a state based on morals. Until the last Palestinian, at least …

Reply to Comment

Misha

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

@Sam Smith
Is everyone with a camera a journalist? In an AIRPORT? Dude, you need to get out more.

I believe the point of the story is that ordinary people, not just government leaders, went into attack mode against peaceful protesters.

Reply to Comment

Misha

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

Attacking ANYONE ANYWHERE for expressing a viewpoint is unacceptable. Period.

There isn’t a separate set of rules for Jews or Zionists or Muslims or Arabs or blacks or whites or conservatives or socialists … not anybody, not anywhere.

Grow up Israel, don’t whine about persecution and violence while you’re doing it.

Reply to Comment

Right Wing Zionist

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

“@ Right Wing Zionist. What’s the connection between the patently racist Khazar theory and your strange belief that Jews ought to be suicidal?(PHILOS)

Read Moshe’s post. I responded to it. That’s the connection.

Oh and just for the record, just because I am a right wing Zionist, I don’t rant, rave and foam at the mouth. That is an easy allegation to make against someone with whom one disagrees (as you obviously disagree with me). But such allegations do NOT, I repeat, do NOT prove YOU right and me wrong. Only logical well reasoned arguments prove on’s point. Obviously yo don’t have any, otherwise you would have let us all benefit from your wisdom.

Reply to Comment

Right Wing Zionist

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

@DEIR YASSIN “… the establishment of this earthly paradise (Herzl’ ‘Altneuland’) on other people’s land …”(DEIR YASSIN)
Thanks for setting the record straight and for being honest. This statement of yours confirms what you believe. At least some of you, and I happen to think that it’s most Arabs don’t believe that Israel has no right to exist. Fair enough, you are entitled to your false beliefs but such belief puts the finger on the pulse about who is perpetrating this 100 year conflict, why the occupation continues and why people on both sides suffer. Israel has no choice about it, Israel has to continue to defend itself by all means, no matter who it offends. Unless of course people expect it to sacrifice itself on the altar of “all that is good, the benefit of all … And utopia (of course)”. I know that many on this forum expect Israel to do exactly that but most of us crazy, rabid right wingers, resist that idea. Go figure …
Now, about your claim, DEIR YASSIN, that Israel is built on other people’s land. How do you figure that? Israel is built on the ancestral home land of the Jewish people who lived on this land even before the Arab peoples were ever heard of. And certainly before the Arab invasion of this land in the 7th century.
Moreover, even in 1947, there were two peoples living here. Jews and Arabs, not just Arabs. Neither owned ALL of the land but both owned some of the land. The Jewish people agreed to the compromise solution of the UN which was the two state solution. The Arabs did not. They attacked the Jews, threatened to drive the Jews into the sea and steal their land. As it turned out, the Arabs did not succeed and instead, they lost some of their lands in the war that they started. But of course, Jews in Arab countries were disposessed of their lands and properties by Arabs and they too became refugees. I won’t go on, I’ll stop here. But you do get the idea, dear DEIR YASSIN, don’t you? There are two sides to this story, not just your side.

Reply to Comment

Empress Trudy

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

I have to say I wasn’t prepared for yet another site purported to be ‘pro-Israeli’ which in fact is barely just this side of Hamas or Iranian agit-prop. But upon thinking of it, I’m not shocked. I guess it comes with the territory. After all how can you call yourselves card carrying leftists unless you spout this nonsense? At any rate, you sound pretty much like Mark Elf and his gang of SWP dead enders. And your website is prettier than Stormfront. So there’s that.

Reply to Comment

Misha

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

@ Right Wing Zionist
Go to Gaza, then tell me Israel is “defending” itself.
Look where the wall runs, then tell me Israel is “defending” itself.
That’s about as accurate as the US Department of “Defense” and “defending our freedom” in Iraq. Load of crap.

Reply to Comment

Misha

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

@Trudy
What about “Independent Reporting and Commentary” ‘purports to be ‘pro-Israel’?
Is it possible that some who aren’t bought or brainwashed don’t toe the zionist line?

Reply to Comment

Right Wing Zionist

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

@Misha: “Go to Gaza, then tell me Israel is “defending” itself”(MISHA)
I’ll tell you what MISHA, I won’t go to Gaza because they will lynch me just because I am a Jew (like they lynched the two poor reservists who strayed into Ramallah during the Intifada in 2000).

However, MISHAH, you should visit Sderot and Ashkelon and maybe talk to the parents of the Israeli school boy who was murdered by your Palestinian friends. You will then be convinced that Israel is doing what it is doing in Gaza in order to defend it’s civilians.
You might also read what I said in my above post to your other friend, DEIR YASSIN which further explains why I think that Israel is defending itself and is not the instigator in this conflict.

Reply to Comment

Misha

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

@ RWZ
I was in Gaza WITH Jews, who were welcomed and treated warmly.
But you have decided to hate entire populations. I feel sorry for you, you will forever be filled with hate. You will forever defend killing others.
I don’t believe I’ve ever heard someone who supports the rights of Palestinians excuse the killing of an Israeli. At least we have enough sense and decency not to excuse in ourselves what we criticise in others.

Reply to Comment

Elizabeth

SaturdayJuly 9, 2011

I have watched Israel destroying itself for many years now. It is very sad to see such possibility wasted by hatred, propaganda, and a belief that the land belongs to any one group, and worse, that it was promised by a God who may or may not exist. To the Right Wing Zionist, and others, who believe that the Arabs didn’t arrive until the 7th century, please read some history that was not written by your propaganda machine. The Kingdom of David lasted about 200 years. Prior to that Kingdom, the Phoenicians (Not Hebrew) and the Philistines (so named by the Romans) were there. Also note that Ramses of Egypt, faught the Assyrians, another group that lived in and “owned” the area. Read your Bible. The Hewbrew peoples were always fighting others, mostly Philistines. If the Arabs didn’t arrive until the 7th c., one has to ask, who was it the Hebrews were fighting to gain land? Great stories are not always based on truth.

Reply to Comment

Right Wing Zionist

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@ELIZABETH: “It is very sad to see such possibility wasted by hatred, propaganda, and a belief that the land belongs to any one group”(ELIZABETH)
Yet the Arabs never cease to claim that the land belongs only to THEM. Did I hear you and others like you being critical of them for it?

“… and worse, that it was promised by a God who may or may not exist”(ELIZABETH)
Funny, most Zionists are secular and therefore we don’t claim the land of Israel based on God’s promise. We claim it because of …
1. Our historical right to this, our ancestral home land.
2. Because like everyone else, the Jewish people are entitled to claim self determination and independence.
3. Because for 2000 years everyone, Arabs, Muslims, Europeans, Christians persecuted us and begrudged our existence amongst them. So, we felt that at long last, it is time to have our own place where we can be the majority and no one can kick us to pillar and post any more.

As far as your fairy tales about the Philistines, the Egyptians and the Phoenicians,I suggest that you should read the bible and HISTORY, again and try to understand who the Philistines were. They certainly were not the forefathers of the Palestinian Arabs who DID get to Palestine in the 7th century AD. If you do your homework, you will learn that the name PALESTINE was given to the land known as Judea at that time, by the Romans who exiled the Jews who dared to rebel against Roman rule. The Philistines were NOT Arabs, they were sea faring people who got to the south East coast of Israel, roughly where Gaza is today and they originated from Greece. You will also find that the Israelites lived in that land for much longer than 200 years.

In any case, it is not Israel that denies the two state solution. If you listen to your Arab friends carefully, you will find that it is they who deny the Jewish people the right to self determination. Israel already agreed to the two state solution in 1947, 2000/2001 and 2008 when the Arabs were offered the majority of Judea and Samaria (or the West Bank as you guys call it). To Israel it was a painful compromise but nevertheless they offered it to the Arabs for the sake of peace. Was the offer accepted by the Arabs, Dear Elizabeth? Of course NOT, go check it out.

Reply to Comment

Right Wing Zionist

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@Misha: “@I was in Gaza WITH Jews, who were welcomed and treated warmly”(MISHA)
Really, Misha? Who were those Jews whom you are talking about? Can you name them? No ordinary Israeli or for that matter, any non Israeli Jew would dare to go to Gaza and do what many Arabs do in Israel and get away with. Arabs freely criticize Israel every day and unless they break the law, nothing bad happens to them. But what would happen to an Israeli, or a Jew or even an Arab for that matter, if they would go to Gaza and hold up a placard, saying: “WELCOME TO ISRAEL”? I’ll tell you what: They would be lynched. And it wouldn’t be Hamas who would do the lynching. It would be ordinary Palestinian Arabs. Admit it, MISHA, the truth will set you free.

“But you have decided to hate entire populations”(MISHA)
Actually, NO! I don’t hate the Arabs. I’ll tell you how I feel about them: I like them as much as they like me.

” I feel sorry for you”(MISHA)
Owwww … Gee …. Thanks for feeling sorry for me. I can use all the sympathy especially from self righteous holier than thou people like you.

“you will forever be filled with hate”(MISHA)
No, forever is too long. Only for as long as people like you and your friends continue to hate me and other Jews who feel that we have rights too. Not just your Palestinian Arabs.
” You will forever defend killing others”(MISHA)
No, only for as long as those others kill or want to kill us.
“I don’t believe I’ve ever heard someone who supports the rights of Palestinians excuse the killing of an Israeli”(MISHA)
Really? And I never heard the likes of you speak up when Palestinian Arabs shoot an anti tank missile into an Israeli school bus killing a school boy. It has happened very recently and one of your friendly terrorists from Gaza did it. Of course it wasn’t an isolated incident either. Yet I hear your shrill condemnations when Israelis kill Arabs in response. And just for the record, I am not happy when Israelis kill Arab civilians. And I admit, it does happen as it happens in any war as it happens in Afghanistan and Iraq too even though civilians are not targeted deliberately either by Israel or by NATO forces. But war is unpredictable and is ugly. And in the Middle East, if it would be up to Israel, there would be no war but since the Arabs play a zero sum gamel, Israel has no choice.

“At least we have enough sense and decency not to excuse in ourselves what we criticise in others”(MISHA)
Now you are telling fibs MISHA. That’s all you and your kind are doing in forums like these, day in day out, excusing Arab attacks against Israel and pointing the finger of propaganda at Israel. Your hypocrisy is so palatable that I can taste it …

Reply to Comment

Siren

max

SundayJuly 10, 2011

When I read of “a mob” I think of the Palestinian mob cheering the bloody hands of the lynch in Ramallah.
.
Mr. Derfner seems to expect a mythical Scandinavian behavior.
Statistically, however, half of the Jews in the airport would’ve been people with first- and second-generation memories of what Jews had to go through in Arab countries.
Many people associate the activists with Israel haters; rather rightly so, based on many comments on +972.
So they shouted back, and the police made sure that the shouts don’t develop into physical violence.
.
What’s the big deal? The realization that the majority in Israel thinks that the actions promoted by the activists are meant to bring a Jewish-free peace? That Mediterranean people are louder than Eskimos?

I love these down-to-earth, regular Joe types who roll their eyes when Palestinians or left-wingers complain about being roughed up by the defenders of Israel. Believe me, if these had been pro-Israel activists facing the same treatment at, say, an Israel Apartheid Week overseas, the consensus here would have been that “the anti-Semitic mob had murder in their eyes,” and that it was “only by a miracle” that our boys and girls “escaped being lynched.”

Reply to Comment

Philos

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@ Deir Yassin. Check your history books pal. You’ll see prominent Jewish figures in all the major national and civic emancipation movements throughout Europe. Tell me, who thought up socialism and laid bare the cruel and inhumane logic of capitalism? Who tried to treat the mentally ill by speaking to them instead of beating them? The fact is Jews have been on the forefront of the humanist struggle for two centuries. The fact that the Nazis (and some of the worst Nationalist Zionists) tried to eradicate Jewish culture and their role in European history doesn’t discount from the fact that the Jewish contribution to freedom far outweighs their numbers. “Jewish troublemakers” was a usual refrain from Russia to America to call any workers or civil rights activist.
It’s unfortunate you’d resort to this sort of pedantry but then again even the Left suffers from its own inflexible ideologues.

Reply to Comment

Philos

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@ Deir Yassin. And it just occurred to me. If you can’t live with my very leftist, tolerant, truth and refuse to accept my right as someone born in Israel to Israeli born parents to live here then the Rightists have won. If you can’t accept Leftists who want peace and envision a future of cooperation, friendship and mutuality between two peoples living in two friendly states then you’re just as bad as Mr. Right Wing Zionist on this forum. You guys deserve each other.

Reply to Comment

shirli

SundayJuly 10, 2011

Mr Derfner – I must say you sound less like a journalist and more like an activist yourself. It seems that you and in fact many journalists working in Israel today have forgotten the purpose of your job – to report the news, not become part of the news because of your impartial beliefs, personal bias and inability to get over yourself “feeling cowardly” and entering the conflict with your opinions.
You seem to be blindly following the herd of other so called journalists who care less about reporting the news and more about helping the Palestinian cause.
If youre really suffocating here, leave, and stop calling yourself an Israeli if you are so ashamed of your country, its government, its people and their beliefs. And if you really believe Israel needs more flotillas filled with people less concerned with human rights and more concerned with damaging Israel’s reputation, then pick up a paddle and join them, and stop calling yourself a journalist.

Reply to Comment

Marc Pax

SundayJuly 10, 2011

Thank you, Larry, for reporting on this. Every story like this that gets out to the world helps truth and justice.

misha

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@RWZ

You must be American or you would know what’s going on there, the Jewish and Israeli activists working in and for the occupied territories, AATW, JVP, B’tselem……

You don’t reveal your name, or location, but demand the names of Jews I traveled to Gaza with. There were at least six, three of those who are public figures are Shelley Fudge, JVP, Medea Benjamin, CodePink, and Norman Finkelstein (son of holocaust survivors, author of ‘The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering’, ‘Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History,’ among others.

Reply to Comment

misha

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@ Larry Derfner

I am not going to yell at you, or criticise you for speaking up when you saw fellow citizens behaving so badly.

But I will say how saddened I was by your piece. I have thought, or at least hoped, that extremists were a small minority, and that the average random Israeli was like the average random person elsewhere in the developed world. Supportive of basic human rights, freedom of speech and other niceties, even for those whom we do not like. I cannot IMAGINE myself or anyone I know participating in the scene at the airport.

If this is the norm, there’s no point in my continuing to hope for peace.

Reply to Comment

max

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@LD “Believe me, if these had been …”
Say I believe you – so what? You remind me of right-wingers who say ‘but the Arabs are worse’.
.
Here are people in an unauthorized demonstration about a subject deemed existential by many, and you expect amused reactions?
Is this what you expect when Merzel goes to Umm al-Fahm to demonstrate?

Reply to Comment

misha

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@Max
“unauthorized demonstration”???
A few people holding little signs in a public place requires government authorization? That’s terrifying.

Reply to Comment

max

SundayJuly 10, 2011

Misha, a hundred is a big few

Reply to Comment

Deïr Yassin

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@ Philos
Maybe you should just stick to commenting what I actually wrote instead of projecting which says far more about you and your bias than about me.

I don’t know what Jewish contribution to world civilization has to do with my comment neither with the topic here, but then I know ethnocentric navel gazing is THE national sport in Israel. By the way, you forgot the Jewish influence on the sun setting and rising ….

My comment was about Zionism, and whether the concept of ‘original sin’ exists in Judaism as in Christiany.

I do understand that as many other left-wing Zionists you just can’t grasp that the Palestinians don’t see the – what did you call it ? – oh, yes, ‘humanistic value’ in Zionism. I guess you talk about the moshavim and kibbutzim that were constructed on the land after our parents and grand-parents were expelled.
You can keep your ‘my very leftist tolerant truth’ for your discussions with other ‘left-wing humanistic tolerant’ Zionists in Tel Aviv. I really don’t care, and your ‘generous offer of two friendly states living side by side, try to sell it to someone else.

Your comments reflect a contemporary Israeli Narcissus. Be careful that you don’t fall into the water …

PS. If by ‘pal’ you mean the English word ‘friend’, we’re not friends, and if you talk about Palestinians, I would prefer you write the whole word, thank you.

Reply to Comment

Right Wing Zionist

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@Philos: “then you’re just as bad as Mr. Right Wing Zionist on this forum”(PHILOS)

I am bad, PHILOS my friend? That’s a very subjective thing to say. Tell me one bad thing that I said during my brief visit here. Perhaps you think I am bad because I am trying to defend Israel from the likes of Deir Yassin? Have you read his latest retort to you? Are you getting through to him yet with your endless self flagellation? Seems to me, he is very unimpressed with any idea that there are two sides to a story, not just the Arab side. To him, life is very simple. The Arabs have all tge rights the Jews have no rights to any land in Israel. You will never convince him otherwise, no matter how much you will self flagellate. Good luck trying though, yea I really mean it, I genuinely wish you well

Reply to Comment

Right Wing Zionist

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@MISHA: I repeat my question: What would happen to ordinary Israelis or even non Israelis if they would turn up in Gaza and display the following plackard: “Welcome to Israel”. I contend that they would be lynched by ordinary Gazans. What do you say?
By the way, your attempt to prove that Gazans are tolerant of Jews because they welcome the likes of Norman Finkelstein, is beyond laughable. It is as much a proof as if you would have mentioned Adolf Hitler instead. Don’t you know who Finkelstein is? He is a Kapo who hates his fellow Jews and Israel even more. A pathetic attempt on your part Misha.

Anyway, you didn’t tell us, have you been to Sderot and Ashkelon yet? They would tell you why Israel acts in Gaza as it does and they won’t lynch you either. Even if you tell them that you are pro Hamas. They may swear at you though, I am sure that deep down you would understand why …

Reply to Comment

misha

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@ Max, whatever the number, look at history. Governments that repress speech are not good to their people for lon.

Speaking of quashing protest, did the boycott law go through? (If so, was dairy exempted?)

Reply to Comment

Deïr Yassin

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@ Right Wing Zionist
Now you’re referred to me three times as a male. Where do you get the idea that I’m actually one ? Maybe you have bias about gender ?

“To him, life is very simple. The Arabs have all the rights, the Jews have no right to any land in Israel”.
Where did I ever state anything like that ? You forgot the ‘Jews-Into-The-Sea’-stuff. You just took your own ideology and turned the table, didn’t you ?
You apparently have NO idea about what I think so I suggest you stick to expressing your own opinions and leaving mine out.

Reply to Comment

max

SundayJuly 10, 2011

Misha, you’re allowed to admit you made a mistake before bringing up another argument…

Reply to Comment

Rught Wing Zionist

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@DEIR YASSIN: So you are not a male. To me that makes no difference. Now that you corrected my assumption, I will refer to you as a female. See how easy I am to get along with?
As to your views, let me refresh your memory. You said earlier on this thread “establishment of this earthly paradise (Herzl’ ‘Altneuland’) on other people’s land and at their costs”. What does other people’s land mean? I challenged you about it but you didn’t respond. To me it sounds like you claim that Israel has no right to exist because it is on “other people’s land”. Please tell me that it is just a misunderstanding on my part, I would be happy to hear it and even apologise to you. How is that?

Reply to Comment

misha

If he’s a Jew who is hated by Jews, is that double persecution, or persecution cubed, since he also hates himself? Or do the persecutions negate one other? Are people you don’t like even entitled to persecutee status?

If he’s doubly (or triply) persecuted, whose land does he get to occupy? Conversely, if the persecutions are negated, do you get to take his house?

No doubt someone in Sderot would swear at me. Does that mean Israel will stop jacking up my government and give us our $100+ Billion back?

RWZ, you’ve been fun, if a little easy. Wishing you the best …

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Right Wing Zionist

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@MISHA: Norman Finkelstein is simply someone who hates Jews and Israel. It is a known fact, just listen to what he says and judge for yourself (as if you are capable of judging anything impartially when it comes to Israel :)). He has t
his hatred in common with Hamas and many other Arabs in Gaza. So telling me that they won’t hurt the enemy of their enemy is no proof that they wouldn’t lynch me if I turned up in Gaza, as you invited me to do.

That is just logic 101 MISHA. But then again it doesn’t appear that you even heard about logic 101, did you? Anyway, have fun with your obsessive Israel bashing. I can’t say it has been fun for me …

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Right Wing Zionist

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@Moderators: Could you please explain to me why my response to Deir Yassin was not published? What was offensive in what I said? Here it is:

“Your comment is awaiting initial confirmation
@DEIR YASSIN: So you are not a male. To me that makes no difference. Now that you corrected my assumption, I will refer to you as a female. See how easy I am to get along with?
As to your views, let me refresh your memory. You said earlier on this thread “establishment of this earthly paradise (Herzl’ ‘Altneuland’) on other people’s land and at their costs”. What does other people’s land mean? I challenged you about it but you didn’t respond. To me it sounds like you claim that Israel has no right to exist because it is on “other people’s land”. Please tell me that it is just a misunderstanding on my part, I would be happy to hear it and even apologise to you. How is that?”

I responded to her claim that I am gender biassed and that I assumed that she was a male. From that, I inferred that she is a female. Is that offensive?
I also responded to her claim that I misrepreaented her views. I therefore asked her to clarify her views. Is that offensive?

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Right Wing Zionist

SundayJuly 10, 2011

@Larry Derfner:
“I love these down-to-earth, regular Joe types who roll their eyes when Palestinians or left-wingers complain about being roughed up by the defenders of Israel. Believe me, if these had been pro-Israel activists facing the same treatment at, say, an Israel Apartheid Week overseas, the consensus here would have been that “the anti-Semitic mob had murder in their eyes,” and that it was “only by a miracle” that our boys and girls “escaped being lynched.”(LARRY DERFNER)

Uh Uh Larry, your analogy does not stack up. The pro Israel activists that you are talking about in say an overseas, facing an Israel anti apartheid gala, would either be local citizens of that country or if not, then more than likely they would be squaring off against other overseas visitors. Either way, the key thing would be that neither group would be sounding off against the country in which the gala event would be held.
What you are talking about in our case is about activists coming from other countries to abuse Israel on it’s home turf. Now don’t get me wrong, I still don’t wish to see those activists lynched but a bit of robust verbal abuse won’t do them any harm. Why? Because they are even insulting Israeli leftists. By coming here, they imply that you guys are incapable of making yourselves heard. My view is that if we want democracy in Israel, then it’s up to us to make it happen. We don’t need foreigners who are ignorant of the issues to come here and insult Israel with gratuitous signs like “Welcome to Palestine”. How do you think Americans would react if a bunch of foreigners would turn up in Texas, California and such places, display signs saying “welcome to Mexico” and agitate that America should give up those states?
I’ll tell you what Larry, I don’t suggest that anyone should try that experiment because they might get an even rougher treatment than the anti Israel activists got in Israel.

About +972 Magazine

+972 is an independent, blog-based web magazine. It was launched in August 2010, resulting from a merger of a number of popular English-language blogs dealing with life and politics in Israel and Palestine.

+972 is an independent, blog-based web magazine. It was launched in August 2010, resulting from a merger of a number of popular English-language blogs dealing with life and politics in Israel and Palestine.