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Wonder as to why Kawai did not implement the feature where a sound can be triggered from the escapement point? And, shouldn't the flagship models have this? As this feature replicates a real acoustic piano.

Here is a good example of playing-off-the-jack in the following demo with Rick DePiro, of Roland:

That is very surprising if the CA95 can't do that. I would have thought that was a given with the 3rd sensor being there for repeats without full release of the key. So it can do repeats, but not one-off tones. Very odd!

Yeah, this is what we have previously called "playing off the jack" and the AvantGrand doesn't do it either. I remember the thread clearly but can't seem to find it at the moment (kippesc verified that this technique does not work on the AG...maybe he even started the thread).

The RD700NX does. I suspect all 3-sensor Rolands do.

It pretty much makes sense that the CA93 and other two-sensor actions do not emulate this behavior. Probably it's not possible with a two-sensor.

To me it doesn't seem like an important feature, but I guess I am a little surprised Kawai and Yamaha didn't bother to incorporate it.

Yeah, this is what we have previously called "playing off the jack" and the AvantGrand doesn't do it either. I remember the thread clearly but can't seem to find it at the moment (kippesc verified that this technique does not work on the AG...maybe he even started the thread).

The RD700NX does. I suspect all 3-sensor Rolands do.

It pretty much makes sense that the CA93 and other two-sensor actions do not emulate this behavior. Probably it's not possible with a two-sensor.

To me it doesn't seem like an important feature, but I guess I am a little surprised Kawai and Yamaha didn't bother to incorporate it.

@gvfarns,

You are right, as none of the other Kawai's have ever implemented it, and, it now remains to be seen if any other upcoming model will add it in. Even so, perhaps it's not that important of a feature to have if the majority of players do not make use of it.

Upright pianos can't do this and the two biggest acoustic manufacturers (Yamaha and Kawai) do not equip their digitals with the ability. It's just a salesman's point for people that buy on features rather than quality.

Watching that demo that pv posted immediately reminded me of that ridiculous sudden metallic aggression of the Roland SN sounds at higher velocities. Yuck! I accept the Studio Grand on the RD-700NX doesn't do it, but ALL other SN Rolands do. Now that is something worthy of discussion because it is very inaccurate behaviour.

I think you are absolutely correct in that this let-off feature is not an important one, since studio uprights do not have this, only grand pianos. And, the actual escapement "click" in a grand action is nothing more than an indication that the hammer has been released from the jack.

Perhaps I have given this feature too much emphasis when it was not really intended, as most players will never use it, in reality. I have thought about this again, as the most important features in a digital are "tone, and, touch"... to directly quote Tom Love of Kawai, from the 1:37 mark up to 1:43, here:

I think you are absolutely correct in that this let-off feature is not an important one, since studio uprights do not have this, only grand pianos. And, the actual escapement "click" in a grand action is nothing more than an indication that the hammer has been released from the jack.

Perhaps I have given this feature too much emphasis when it was not really intended, as most players will never use it, in reality. I have thought about this again, as the most important features in a digital are "tone, and, touch"... to directly quote Tom Love of Kawai, from the 1:37 mark up to 1:43, here:

Good point James, although I am surprised you don't know the answer already! Do you play most of the Kawai models as part of your job?

Yes, I do, however when working on owner's manuals, I typically use prototype models which may feature a previous generation keyboard action, or sometimes no action at all - just a control panel and screen.

Just buy yourself a Roland V-Piano instead, as none of this is a question mark, there. However, if you don't need the "let-off" feature, then the CA95 would still be an improvement over the CA93.

As a serious pianist, I do need it. It helps a lot in some situations.Unfortunately I can't afford a real decent acoustic piano at this moment, so that's why I need the most realistic DP -as long as it's not too expensive for me-

I appreciate your recommendation about the V-Piano, but I find Roland's sound very unnatural compared to the "Mellow Grand" voice of my CA93.

pv88, I'm just wondering... how much pressure are you applying to the key after 'reaching' the let-off point?

Does pressing the key with greater force after reaching the let-off point produce a sound?

Kind regards,Jamesx

Good point James, although I am surprised you don't know the answer already! Do you play most of the Kawai models as part of your job?

@ando & James,

I am not at all concerned with any repetition details (with rapid repeated notes) in the CA95 / V-Piano, as they both can handle just about anything you throw at it, and, are obviously good enough for just about any style of playing.

As for the pressure you apply to trigger a sound from the escapement point (as in the Roland V-Piano, for example) it amounts to a firm quick stroke to produce a sound. You can also make that note sound either softer / louder depending on how quickly the key is depressed.

I don't think that this escapement feature is practical for the majority of players, so it is not an important feature as such.

We were discussing Steingraeber's "rolling knuckle" action in here some time ago. IMHO, if a reputable piano manufacturer such as Steingraeber produced an action that essentially removes the let-off feel completely (making it impossible to "play off the jack"), it can't be a critical feature of a piano, surely. (however, not everyone likes the action) If it really is critical, then it's bizarre that they went to all that trouble.

The question I had regarding the let-off was why Kawai did not choose to incorporate "playing of of the jack" with the escapement, meaning that you should be able to sound a soft note ("pp") when pressing the key from the escapement point?

Answer:

We are still studying this point. Hopefully we’ll have an answer soon. Again like the pedal depth no one has ever brought this point up to us before that I can remember so it is a new topic for us.

Therefore, neither the escapement (let-off) feature, or, pedal depth question, has ever been been brought to their attention, until now.

As for the pedal depth question regarding the CA95, nothing will be changed with the current pedal measurements on the CA95, as it is a cabinet style piano which has pedal depth similar to other Kawai acoustic uprights, at 6, or, 7 inches.

Only the Kawai CP209 (ensemble grand digital) has a pedal depth of 10 inches, which is equal to the Kawai EX Concert Grand.