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Topic: Jesus ate with sinners, then what? (Read 3669 times)

I love that Jesus ate/fellowshipped with despised sinners, but what happened to them later? Did they quit being "sinners", quit their notorios lifestyles? Did the woman at the well get her own apartment? Did the prodigal quit all his vices? Did the tax collector quit his job? I wonder... Or is it simply He knows what they are, what they will continue to be and loves them anyway. Is that the message? Is it that Jesus didn't eat with them to fix them, but to love them? I want Jesus to fix me, but perhaps I am missing the message.

He knows what they are...While we were sinners Christ died for us.The key seems to be that we are saved by Christ and His faith so that we will all be one in ChristOur father is the one who makes us grow and we are all individuals of the same mega family.Paul says that he did not come to convince people with words[1 Cor 1;17'." We proclaim a Christ who was crucified." [1 Cor 1;23]Rom 12;2 " Do not be conformed to this age but be transformed by the renwing of your mind to the end you may be proving what is the thing willed by God, the good and acceptable and perfect."The simplicity of the statement that we are children of God because of what Christ has done seems to inspire the desire to get to know our Father personally above our experiences with our dads. That is an on-going development through the things we experience.For you to even have the desire for Jesus to fix you seems to show that He is opening your eyes.NO MAN will be able to compare to what Christ does for us.Eph 3;18 " In order that YOU may be mighty enough to grasp firmly, with all the saints, what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height,to GET TO KNOW the knowledge surpassing love of the Christ."

He knows what they are...While we were sinners Christ died for us.The key seems to be that we are saved by Christ and His faith so that we will all be one in ChristOur father is the one who makes us grow and we are all individuals of the same mega family.Paul says that he did not come to convince people with words[1 Cor 1;17'." We proclaim a Christ who was crucified." [1 Cor 1;23]Rom 12;2 " Do not be conformed to this age but be transformed by the renwing of your mind to the end you may be proving what is the thing willed by God, the good and acceptable and perfect."The simplicity of the statement that we are children of God because of what Christ has done seems to inspire the desire to get to know our Father personally above our experiences with our dads. That is an on-going development through the things we experience.For you to even have the desire for Jesus to fix you seems to show that He is opening your eyes.NO MAN will be able to compare to what Christ does for us.Eph 3;18 " In order that YOU may be mighty enough to grasp firmly, with all the saints, what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height,to GET TO KNOW the knowledge surpassing love of the Christ."

Ross, just nailed it. I see being freed from the flesh, vices, sin etc as a journey...a process. I don't believe most of us have an experience then are just free. It certainly hasn't been that way in my life. What I know is this...the harder I try...the more I fail. I have proven that to myself. But, when I focus my eyes on Him, the flesh just has less of a pull on me. I am convinced that relationship is the vehicle of sanctification...and this process happens in spite of us...not because of us.

The challenge is accepting God's agape love for us....while we are still dirty and messy. We struggle living in His love because we feel like we need to earn it. We don't need to earn anything...it's ours. Just live in it, accept it, embrace it, and thank God for his magnificant grace and mercy. Do this daily, living in it.

So the answer to the orginal question is...I believe these people had an experience with Christ then entered into a process. I believe some behaviors may have immediately changed in some...and others maybe not. Isn't this the case with most of us? I always hear a select few that state they were immediately liberated...but I don't believe that to be the case for the majority of us.

Mark 2:15-17 "And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

1.) When talking about the body of Christ, Paul is first talking about spiritual gifts. Then in I Cor. 12:13 he is clear who he is talking to. He says "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body". The setting is, these are believers, spiritually reborn, infilled with the Spirit. Paul said not all are of the faith.

Then in the same passage, speaking of "unseemly" members, he goes on to talk more about the gifts of the Spirit and therein draws this distinction - some members of the body have more "out-front", visible, "desirable" gifts; while others' gifts are of service and support, "in the background", seemingly less important if looked on the surface and carnally. However, Paul says every member's role is vital to the functioning of the whole body, none more important than the other in the church/body of believers.

2.) I believe a separate issue is, as related to the OP, when Jesus spent time with sinners, His Presence was to call them to repentance and therefor heal them (the Great Physician, Mark 2:15-17).

2 John (Concordant Literal)...9 Everyone who is taking the lead and not remaining in the teaching of Christ has not God. He who is remaining in the teaching, this one has the Father as well as the Son.10 If anyone is coming to you and is not bringing this teaching, be not taking him into your home, and say not to him, "Rejoice!"11 For he who is saying to him to be rejoicing is participating in his wicked acts.

Sometimes the truth doesn't seem so simple. Without a proper balance life can be lost. Stay in prayer and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

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I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program! JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!! MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

sorry James, kept messing with this post and it finally ended up after yours. Good points in your post.

paraphrased from onechristianministry.com Jesus said "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." He proclaims His purpose is to call sinners to repentance. Repentance, meaning, to turn away from sin. At that calling, sinners then made a choice. They either recognized that they were living in sin, and then followed Jesus Christ...or they chose to reject Him and stay in a sinful life, not following in the path of Christ.

sorry James, kept messing with this post and it finally ended up after yours. Good points in your post.

paraphrased from onechristianministry.com Jesus said "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." He proclaims His purpose is to call sinners to repentance. Repentance, meaning, to turn away from sin. At that calling, sinners then made a choice. They either recognized that they were living in sin, and then followed Jesus Christ...or they chose to reject Him and stay in a sinful life, not following in the path of Christ.

See the problem I have with how that is typically preached is that it seems like an event. We say the sinners prayer...we become one of the suit wearing church people with Bible in hand...and we are free from sin. While that may be the experience of some...I have a hard time believing that is the case with most.

We are called to turn away from...but who does this perfectly? Many of us still grapple with vice...alcohol/drugs/pornography/adultery/gossip/ego/people pleasing/over spending/over eating/over gambling etc and so on. I think the message that is sent is if you still struggle to completely turn away that you are defective...a bad person in danger of hellfire.

I also have a hard time with people focusing on controlling or abstaining from a vice. It doesn't work. How many here have white knuckled temptation? What happened when you failed? And see that is the problem...we are focused on us. What I have found is when I focus on me...I do it in vain and I grow ill.

For me...repentence is not the being able to perfectly abstain from sin and vice. It's the desire to perfectly abstain from sin and vice. Its a decision to enter into the fire...enter into relationship with Christ and begin the process of gaining freedom. The first freedom for me was the freedom from the ego centered behavior of needing to be perfect.

So, to those who are struggling with secret sin....don't give up. Focus your eyes on the solution...enter the gates of his presence through relationship. Experience Him. In that you will find the freedom you so desperately seek.

I think I basically agree with that too Shawn. I see their illustration as drawing a clear distinction between being accepting or rejecting of Christ. But IMO, being spiritually reborn doesn't mean completely mature. I believe those are two events. One puts us in "right standing" (being given His righteousness through the blood shed on the cross for our salvation), the other is an ongoing process of becoming more like Him, our will yielding to His, Him continually rising within us. We're still flesh and blood, clay. If Apostle Paul was still struggling with his flesh, I have no aspirations that I will be any different.

I think I basically agree with that too Shawn. I see their illustration as drawing a clear distinction between being accepting or rejecting of Christ. But IMO, being spiritually reborn doesn't mean completely mature. I believe those are two events. One puts us in "right standing" (being given His righteousness through the blood shed on the cross for our salvation), the other is an ongoing process of becoming more like Him, our will yielding to His, Him continually rising within us. We're still flesh and blood, clay. If Apostle Paul was still struggling with his flesh, I have no aspirations that I will be any different.

I totally agree.

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goodreport

I think I basically agree with that too Shawn. I see their illustration as drawing a clear distinction between being accepting or rejecting of Christ. But IMO, being spiritually reborn doesn't mean completely mature. I believe those are two events. One puts us in "right standing" (being given His righteousness through the blood shed on the cross for our salvation), the other is an ongoing process of becoming more like Him, our will yielding to His, Him continually rising within us. We're still flesh and blood, clay. If Apostle Paul was still struggling with his flesh, I have no aspirations that I will be any different.

Phil 3:10-11 (Amp)

[For my determined purpose is] that I may know Him [that I may progressively become deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly], and that I may in that same way come to know the power outflowing from His resurrection [which it exerts over believers], and that I may so share His sufferings as to be continually transformed [in spirit into His likeness even] to His death, [in the hope]

That if possible I may attain to the [spiritual and moral] resurrection [that lifts me] out from among the dead [even while in the body].

Thanks for the honesty, Shawn. What you describe has been my experience as well. The more I try, the worse it gets. It's kind of like a toy I used to play tricks on people with when I was a kid. I think we called them Chinese handcuffs. It is a narrow, hollow tube that that can expand and contract. The trick is to tell a friend to put a finger in each end, then try to pull them out. The problem is that when you pull the tube becomes tighter and you can't get your fingers out. In fact the harder you pull, the tighter it becomes--very frustrating. The only way to get free is to relax and let the tube return to normal size.

That's exactly right. White knuckling temptation doesn't work. If it did...we would have something to brag about. Instead I truly believe its about acceptance of God's mercy...living in it...and just being so greatful that he loves us just how we are. He accepts us...even though we struggle to accept ourselves. If we can live in that...it being in the forefront of our minds daily...that amazing grace begins to heal us.

I work on a beautiful campus and often take walks around the lake. I pass patients and we say hello. I pray. I breathe deep and easy taking in God revealing himself to me through nature. I give thanks...real thanks...gratitude that can only come from someone who has been forgiven much. And I look around and see what the enemy meant for my destruction is now my blessing. I'm in awe of our Savior, because I am a man of vice and weakness...yet somehow God uses me. In these thoughts I try to live daily...and in them I find the strength to abstain...one day at a time.