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There. That's it above. That "*" or "~" or whatever. I HATE that crap. More and more, I keep finding people going back and rubbing out what they put up on here- or worse, going back through entire threads and deleting what they said before.

It's working my nerves. What gives? There's no particular need to reply to this thread. I just needed to vent. I wish people would take the time to consider what they say first and/or have the courage to stick by their words later. This footprint wiping stuff leaves a bad taste to me. If I regret what I post here, I will come back and say so in a later reply. I always feel like I owe to myself and others who will eye these threads to read even the errant statements I might make. Let 'em see when I have my head up my ass or am an emotional wreck. Minor adjustments, sure. But overt deletion...I think this about it:

Revisionist history? I was actually thinking how much of what is written could stand sufficient editing to make it understandable and palatable to me. Of course, no one died and appointed me...so while some words once uttered can never be taken back, we have the technological capability of revising our posts with gleeful abandon. Perhaps, we should a start a game....post, get a reply, then change your original post to make the reply seem idiotic or otherwise inappropriate...naw, the only thing I change on my posts is spelling.

Yes, be it known that I will go back to something I posted 3 months ago and correct it for spelling & such at times. I just get perturbed when it disrupts the intellectual flow of a thread. Worse, when the very foundation of a thread is deleted.

Not necessarily the pic thing. If I have a burning desire to see weenie, there's a field of it for harvest. That might make for minor frustration, but I am more conerned about the naked expression of ideas and opinions.

That's what's great about quoting.. you can memorialize it before they can think to regret it.

I only change things when it's spelling or a run-on or something because you know it's tough sometimes to get things out really coherently so that people can understand them without having to stop and wonder what the heck that pinhead is trying to say. Or a fragment.

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Well, fully turning off the edit post function would kill the OCD side of me! I type in a way that typically mimics how I speak. (The things like "let 'em" and "younguns", and even the excessive "..." that I type out. I "..." a lot in conversational speech.) Still, if I see something later that I typed that was just a typo rather than a deliberate misspelling or the like, it makes my skin crawl if I don't go back and fix it. I guess I mostly wish people would make more of a practice of doing what Benj said: owning what they say, for better or worse. I know there are posts I have made that I can look back on a cringe because they don't read exactly the same to me later- or I realized I was just speaking like a total tool. I just resolve to let my tool moments glare out as brightly as my better posts. I think keeping that practice makes me a better contributor by keeping me more honest from the get-go. At least I hope it does.

I have been seeing a fair amount of posts being deleted. I just read what the replies were and try to piece it together. But I also let it be known that in turn it may cause me to go way off topic. I mean what can they say, they erased it in the first place. Or some may choose to respond and clarify things. But it can be a pain in the ass to sift through. I have never deleted a post but often modifies to correct spelling or to add something I may have forgotten to put in the first place.

From my very first post a long time ago, to the things I say today, I have remained consistent. If I type it, I own it. The only thing I check for is spelling, and that is a rareity.I may not appreciate it, but I also think that the author had a change of heart, and felt the need to erase his/her typed message.

I also agree that it is not OK to start a thread, then erase the message you originally were compelled to write.

If you write it, own it. (just be mindful of what you say)

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No Fear No Shame No StigmaHappiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

I have never done the full edit myself. Probably should have somewhere along the way, probably should now. If you remove a post, rather than leave an asterisk, perhaps a courteous note to say you have and why. To be blunt, I disagree that what I write passes out of my ownership. This is nothing more than an electronic bulletin board, I can tear my paper down and throw it away on a real one, and I can do that here. To be blunter, i don't see the need to be able to go back and quote people's errors or meanness of the moment. I don't see these threads, especially off topic ones, as carved in stone. Nor do i find missing posts particularly confusing or significant. Of course deleting the original post is a bit strange, but worse acts are committed on these forums to people who are hurting or in need.

I can see how deleting a whole thing can be annoying, but I'd hate to not be able to edit at all. I never delete a full post--I probably should have a few, but I didn't. I like my posts to sound as perfect as possible, so sometimes I do multiple edits--for example, this word is spelled wrong, this wording doesn't make sense, I forgot to add this thought, etc. I just think it is better than people asking me what the hell I am talking about later. Sometimes I tend to type fast and my mind and hands don't work at the same pace. But deleting whole posts is something I'd never do even if I regret what I said.

(I consulted the editors of The NEW YORKER before posting this. Yesterday I thought I started a useful (to me, at least) thread through which people could tell those who are hiv positive on the Cape why they find the forums useful, what draws them to them each day. I would then quote the comments in a newsletter article on the Forums. Yes, I can put in an article why I am drawn, but wouldn't it be an improvement to have a dialogue going from the start, Forums to Cape. Well, it went up and got no replies. So the editor in me who sits next to the writer is tempted to edit the whole thing out as, 'Nice try, but obviously phrased wrong.'

At least twice I have posted something, logged off and then thought about what I had posted and felt the need to add or clarify what I had posted. Thanks to the edit option, I could do that.

But to make the whole thing disappear which, yes, I have found quite often and yes it has bothered me: 'Late for the dance?' 'Did I miss something important? Can I, too, try to piece together what was there from the comments about it?' Win

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Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems. The last was published in December 2006. He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

To Win, I would say that I would not necessaily set a time limit for something to gather a response & then take it down...unless it was a time-sensitive post to begin with. There are lots of threads on here that escape my eyes for sometime- ones that I somehow don't see until I happen to notice a later post on it or if I happen to spy someone browsing it in the "Who Is Online" section. I have found a bunch of worthwhile topics that way. It could also be that the seed you plant needs time before it is ready to be harvested by someone else. And I say this part really specifically to Win: There are often times that I see threads of yours that are quite provocative, and it is something that I need to sit and stew on to figure out a reply. Sometimes, I don't even come up with I feel might be a post-worthy reply. That doesn't mean I don't continue to work it over in my head. And those kinds of posts in particular tend to circle in my head for that very reason: I'm still in the introspection mode. I'm self-aware that an idea has been raised that I haven't considered properly before, and I am looking at myself to understand not only the issue- but also perhaps WHY have I not viewed something in that light. There's a lot of mental chewing to be done for the digestion. Make any sense?

To Razorbill: Yes, it is an electronic bulletin board. However, once you garner additional replies, it seems to me that intellectual ownership shifts to that of the community- not just the original poster. Yanking one's own particular posts from a thread (to me) is somewhat akin to working on a script with some fellow writers- then later deciding to yank your personal page contributions from the finished script...hobbling the thematic flow for all who took the time to contribute. That's just how it seems to me.

To be blunt, I disagree that what I write passes out of my ownership. This is nothing more than an electronic bulletin board, I can tear my paper down and throw it away on a real one, and I can do that here.

Bad analogy. A web board posting is more akin to an actual physical conversation rather than a term paper. If we're sitting in a room talking with a group of people and you say something can you erase it from people's memory?

We are NOT discussing alterations of the record to correct spelling here folks. I think we all know what's what with that.

Well, in my defense I did that with one post but only because I had merged my writing in that post with another simply for brevitys sake.

I do understand why it is irritating. However, sometimes people struggle with seeing their thoughts in print afterwards. Writing can be a "Pandora's Box" and with it can come regret, fear, anger, pain. Words are very powerful whether in the hands of an adept or a novice. Sometimes it's just easier to put the lid back on that box than to have to continue to deal with the outcome of our action.

I agree that it's annoying, especially to those who read posts that others take the time to type out, and the whole thread makes no sense. I do like quoting for that reason.

On the other hand, incorrect (and not very flattering) information was posted about me a while back. I had nothing to do with the thread, but was only the 'victim' of the post. The first reply quoted the original. The original poster apologized and revised his post, but the rest of the stuff he initially said is still there, quoted in the thread.

It would be courteous to at least put SOMETHING in place of what's been edited out or the reason... anything but just an * or similar.

Yes, putting something there that encapsulates at least the original intent of the post would be good. I think a change of heart or reevaluation deserves to simply be posted as a later reply...

"In post #3, I said such and such. I've since had the chance to reconsider..." etc. But I think the original post should stand.

And like philly said, we aren't talking about spelling changes and such. I can also see about adding an additional thought to something you've posted, but I always think it is a good idea to include "EDITED/MODIFIED TO SAY" or something to that effect. It might even be a good thing (if the thread is really long) to make a later reply about the adjustment like:

POST #104: "Just an FYI, I made an adjustment to my post 17." That is being especially thorough about it, I admit. Just a thought and depends on how drastic the addition or change is, or how important you think it might be that people following the thread know of the change. There's lots of times I follow a thread...only to look back by chance some time later to see that something new was added to the earlier parts that I never saw.

And finally: Yes, * is extremely annoying...but I find lines like "deleted because I was drunk/high" or "my meds made me do it" to be just as lame.

On the other hand, incorrect (and not very flattering) information was posted about me a while back. I had nothing to do with the thread, but was only the 'victim' of the post. The first reply quoted the original. The original poster apologized and revised his post, but the rest of the stuff he initially said is still there, quoted in the thread.

Join the club... at least you got an apology which is more than I can say.

Point well made, Tim. I needed some insight into the minds of others here. (While I edit and re-edit the draft poem about the forums.) Win

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Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems. The last was published in December 2006. He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

It's the illusion of a conversation that's been shattered... and that's what upsets me the most.

I guess we should have expected such a tantrum after he went from thread to thread making all of those sarcastic comments left and right. We, of course, refused to sit by and take it...we cleaned his sad clock, so he did the equivalent of packing up his toys and leaving.

Very telling that someone who went on and on and on about the failing integrity of these forums would throw gigantic wrecking balls to them- thus disrupting the integrity of thread after thread- upon his departure.

I guess we should have expected such a tantrum after he went from thread to thread making all of those sarcastic comments left and right. We, of course, refused to sit by and take it...we cleaned his sad clock, so he did the equivalent of packing up his toys and leaving.

Very telling that someone who went on and on and on about the failing integrity of these forums would throw gigantic wrecking balls to them- thus disrupting the integrity of thread after thread- upon his departure.

Although it's the height of hypocritical irony to delete what was here in a thread about deletion of posts... I feel the need to.

Perhaps a bit caught up in the memory of some rather nasty exchanges, I said something here I should have kept to myself.

Appy polly loggies to everyone... but I really can't be that catty. It's not very me.

Not that Iggy needs defending, he is afterall quite capable, but there is something that needs to be said here.At some point just before we moved to the new forums, Iggy had been stalked, outed, and dogged by a person in his city. He got his confidence smashed to smithereenies, and backed out of the forums for a period of time. He had only begun to return to posting here, and something made him decide to go away again, and take his posts with him.I don't know what his reasons were, but he was a genuinely good man with fears, and demons, just like the rest of us. He was just a wry, pragmatic man who didn't buy into the whole "don't worry, be happy, positive karma" thing. Personally, I miss him. I hope he is well.

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No Fear No Shame No StigmaHappiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

It's also very telling that he did this about five weeks ago and no one really noticed.

eep.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I am glad that the 48 hour time limit was imposed on the deletion/editing of posts. Many, many times I have scoured the archives to locate a piece of information, only to find someone had vandalized the forums with the asterisk.

Insofar as Iggy goes, he did send me a sweet letter of apology via PM after his outburst on the blogs commentary section. However, I was not checking PMs at the time, and by the time I replied, I think he was long gone.

Hey, we have ALL had terrible things happen to us. Unspeakable things. Suicide attempts, rejections of the worst kind, We have known death, assault, domestic violence, stalkers, and let's not forget the virus that enjoys snacking on our brains.

There is no excuse for being cruel to others as a result, or by-product of those horrors. None whatsoever.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."