Bronze SupporterBronze Supporter

Needed a few more Blue Guns for holsters and decided to give a new guy a shot. He's been very quick to answer my questions and his new website has live inventory which is nice, plus he takes Paypal so no money out of my actual pocket.

Ordered a Walther PPQ, KT PF9 and Glock 34 Monday evening and got an order confirmation along with Delivery Confirmation within an hour.

Today I go out to the mail box and what do I have, a padded envelope with nothing in it. Appears that this moron decided to put 3 large blue guns in a padded envelope without taping over the end, needless to say it burst along the way and the contents were lost.

Contacted the seller right away and was hit with "Did you buy insurance?" to which I replied I was not offered insurance so I never chose it. He then tells me his policy is to not replace anything and that if I wanted them covered I should have asked for insurance.

Funny thing is I paid $13.99 for shipping and he shipped in a $5.35 Priority Envelope, told him if he was so worried about insurance he should have put some of the $8.50 extra towards it.

I'm pissed that this moron won't just do the right thing and either refund my money or resend my items. I bend over backwards to take care of my customers and would eat a little money when needed to make someone happy, knowing that I will make it back in the long run.

Turns out that this guy also screwed over another local holster maker, but did offer free shipping on her next order....[%|]

Member

Poor customer service really irritates me. Its such a simple thing to make things right. I guess people just don't understand the power of the internet. I usually research reviews before I buy and something like this really turns me off, regardless of other positive reviews. Overcharging for shipping(without explanation) is another pet peeve, so that's 2 strikes! I have a pf9 and I'm in Camas if you need to borrow it toget something started. PM me if you need to borrow it.

Bronze SupporterBronze Supporter

Poor customer service really irritates me. Its such a simple thing to make things right. I guess people just don't understand the power of the internet. I usually research reviews before I buy and something like this really turns me off, regardless of other positive reviews. Overcharging for shipping(without explanation) is another pet peeve, so that's 2 strikes! I have a pf9 and I'm in Camas if you need to borrow it toget something started. PM me if you need to borrow it.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the support. Customer service is the most important thing that I can offer to my customers. I'll let you know on the PF9 might need it.

Bronze SupporterBronze Supporter

Once again I am very sorry this has happened. We communicated by email about the guns, it is my policy that you must request insurance but you didn&#8217;t. I would have thought if you wanted insurance you would have either requested by email before you processed the order or contacted me afterwards to add it on. I am not worried when I ship, I have shipped several orders in those bags provided by USPS and never had a problem with them breaking open. It seems odd that two customers in the same area didn&#8217;t get there items however they were both tracked. I by no means am saying that you are being untruthful it is just strange, seems like the post office in your area has some issues because this is not a normal occurrence. I am sorry that I have lost you as a customer due to this issue. The only thing I can suggest at this point is to proceed with the PayPal dispute.

I like how he covers his *** by putting the need for insurance in his policies but doesn't have his website setup to actually provide it.

Here's his insurance policy:

*SHIPPING INSURANCE*: No refunds or replacement items will be given unless insurance is purchased during checkout. If ordering by email insurance must be requested or you will not be invoiced or covered with insurance.

Member

Well-Known Member

I can understand the 13.99 for shipping in a 5.35 envelope, time is money and nothing is free. What I do not understand is why you are so naive as to not request insurance. Of course you can yank his payment from him through paypal can't you? That's why you used it in the first place isn't it?

Bronze SupporterBronze Supporter

I can understand the 13.99 for shipping in a 5.35 envelope, time is money and nothing is free. What I do not understand is why you are so naive as to not request insurance. Of course you can yank his payment from him through paypal can't you? That's why you used it in the first place isn't it?

Click to expand...

I make my money through my products not by cheating people with high shipping rates. I send holsters out daily and only charge $4 shipping. Box costs me $.34 and shipping is around $3, add in tape, etc and I break even.

I bought through his website where insurance is not available. If he would have packaged the items correctly neither he or I would be in this situation.

Paypal may or may not give my money back since I received an empty package.

Member

I guess I'm naive too, but I usually figure that unless they give me the option to accept or reject the insurance, its included, especially if the shipping is that high. That said, I've had good luck with PayPal disputes getting this resolved. Just make sure to escalate it to a claim so the dispute doesn't expire. Losing a customer over $20 worth of stuff hardly seems worth it, but it sounds like this guy has no problem doing it.

Bronze SupporterBronze Supporter

I guess I'm naive too, but I usually figure that unless they give me the option to accept or reject the insurance, its included, especially if the shipping is that high. That said, I've had good luck with PayPal disputes getting this resolved. Just make sure to escalate it to a claim so the dispute doesn't expire. Losing a customer over $20 worth of stuff hardly seems worth it, but it sounds like this guy has no problem doing it.

Click to expand...

Me too.

Escalated it to a claim so hope it gets taken care of quickly.

I offered him a chance to earn my business back, and he said "I am sorry that I have lost you as a customer due to this issue. "

The other holster maker he did this to had ordered from him several times before having an issue and he basically told her the same thing.

Well-Known Member

New Member

Shipping insurance is used when the carrier damages or loses the shipment. If a failure to provide a satisfactory package is the problem, that is with the shipper and he should provide a replacement. I would take pictures of the package. Maybe he can meet you half way.

Active Member

Bronze SupporterBronze Supporter

Shipping insurance is used when the carrier damages or loses the shipment. If a failure to provide a satisfactory package is the problem, that is with the shipper and he should provide a replacement. I would take pictures of the package. Maybe he can meet you half way.

Click to expand...

Yesterday I would have compromised and split the difference on replacements, both of us would have been out some money but that would have been ok. Instead he basically told me to pound sand from the very moment I contacted him with the problem.

I really figured I would lose the Paypal claim since it seemed like he had been down this road before and was pretty confident in himself.

Now the only real loser is him. He lost his money/product, a good customer who would have bought thousands of dollars of blue guns and hopefully some future customers because of how he handled this situation.

Being a small business owner I don't like to dump on other guys in similar situations, but he gives all of us internet holster makers and sellers a bad name.

New Member

Needed a few more Blue Guns for holsters and decided to give a new guy a shot. He's been very quick to answer my questions and his new website has live inventory which is nice, plus he takes Paypal so no money out of my actual pocket.

Ordered a Walther PPQ, KT PF9 and Glock 34 Monday evening and got an order confirmation along with Delivery Confirmation within an hour.

Today I go out to the mail box and what do I have, a padded envelope with nothing in it. Appears that this moron decided to put 3 large blue guns in a padded envelope without taping over the end, needless to say it burst along the way and the contents were lost.

Contacted the seller right away and was hit with "Did you buy insurance?" to which I replied I was not offered insurance so I never chose it. He then tells me his policy is to not replace anything and that if I wanted them covered I should have asked for insurance.

Funny thing is I paid $13.99 for shipping and he shipped in a $5.35 Priority Envelope, told him if he was so worried about insurance he should have put some of the $8.50 extra towards it.

I'm pissed that this moron won't just do the right thing and either refund my money or resend my items. I bend over backwards to take care of my customers and would eat a little money when needed to make someone happy, knowing that I will make it back in the long run.

Turns out that this guy also screwed over another local holster maker, but did offer free shipping on her next order....[%|]

I have debated whether to respond to Mr. McElroy&#8217;s forum posts (3 forums and counting) but feel that an official response from me is needed. Mr. McElroy purchased leather supplies (BLUEGUNS) not any type of leather item or gun holster that I make.
Mr. McElroy contacted me by email about purchasing a Bluegun (gun replica) on March 27, 2012 and I responded to him quickly and then forwarded him to my site to process the order. I shipped Mr. McElroy&#8217;s guns out the same day USPS tracking number which as you can see shows delivered on March 29, 2012. I communicated with Mr. McElroy in about four emails total before I shipped his package and he never mentioned anything about purchasing insurance (my policy requires to request it) or a special way he wanted his shipment packaged. The guns weighed less than 2 lbs and fit into the padded envelope with room to spare much less than the 70 lbs limit stated by USPS. I used the Flat Rate Shipping bubble wrap envelop 9-1/2&#8221; x 12-1/2&#8221;. The only opening to the bag was the manufacturer&#8217;s adhesive flap which closed easily due to the extra room left in it after placing the items in. I had no reason to add anymore material to the closure of the envelope to strengthen it because I have shipped numerous blue guns in this same packaging and have never had a problem with it failing. USPS does not allow you to alter their flat rate shipping supplies and could deny a package if you did add to it however they accepted it at my local post office. My shipping fees may seem high to some but I ship very fast especially if the items are in stock and cover the extra costs related to ordering and shipping items for my customers. Depending on what items are ordered and circumstance I sometimes pay more for the shipping then I charge. I have very good reasons for doing things the way that I do like every other merchant.
Mr. McElroy emailed me on March 29, 2012 and stated that he received a torn package without any guns in it. I requested him to contact his post office and see if they could locate them. He sent another email stating he needed either his money back or new guns. Mr. McElroy went on in the same email and threatened to dispute it with PayPal and stated &#8220;I have spoke with another holster maker locally who also had a package with dummy guns not show up, you did not work with her to fix it and lost her business&#8221;. I responded back and recommend him to proceed with the PayPal dispute. I give Mr. McElroy this advice due to the following reasons: I felt that a third party should make the decision because of how quick he was demanding money or more items, the fact that there were two customers who know each other, had recently spoke with each other, are both located in the same area, both stated they never received their guns. On both shipments the tracking showed delivered. I spoke with USPS and they advised they would have attached a note of apology for the items missing and Mr McElroy never made mention of anything except a hole in the package and his merchandise was gone. In one of his post before Paypal&#8217;s decision Mr. McElroy stated &#8220;Exactly. If it doesn&#8217;t show up it&#8217;s on USPS, if it shows up empty it&#8217;s on the seller. Even if I had insurance USPS would not cover the problem since they delivered the package&#8221; The other customer he refers to never received the package although it showed delivered by USPS but Mr. McElroy&#8217;s package showed up without any product. These are very expensive items even wholesale cost is high not even closely compared to the minimal cost of materials in small leather pocket holsters.
After responding back with his dissatisfaction he requested my friendship on Facebook. Mr. McElroy filed his dispute and I quickly responded to the dispute so he could get a resolution in a timely manner. I received four different emails through my site. One of which was obviously sent by Mr. McElroy because he used &#8220;I&#8221; in several locations but listed his name as &#8220;John Smith&#8221; and an email address of johnsmith@gmail.com. The emails contained links and references to four different forums in which Mr. McElroy had posted negative comments about me, my holsters, and that I had ripped him off. One of the emails threatened &#8220;Good luck with your customer service. Your going to need it.&#8221; Not sure if any of the emails are legitimate people or email addresses but I did respond to them anyway.
Paypal decided in Mr. McElroy&#8217;s favor so he was refunded his money back which I have found out is a common practice by them. They must have found validity to both our positions because they also made a somewhat fair resolution to me as well.
What is disappointing is how Mr. McElroy has conducted himself throughout this incident especially the harassing and bullying posts/emails which seem to be more of a personal attack to my leather work than anything else. I have reframed from copying this behavior because I don&#8217;t believe in stepping on someone else to make myself look better. It is ok to give reviews but Mr. McEloy has taken it to a different almost slanderous level. There are several more contradictions that I could point out but I do not wish to. I hope that the readers will see that we obviously had a disagreement on this issue and the difference in which we both reacted to it.
I am sure that my post will spark even more debate but I really have to get back to the shop and get busy. I will be posting Mr. McElroy&#8217;s review on my site. I am reviewing my site and how the polices are written and will make changes if necessary. I apologized to Mr. McElroy for his &#8220;lost shipment&#8221; however I felt I had good reasons to handle it like I did. I plan to let this be my only response to the incident and feel that it is &#8220;water under the bridge&#8221; and hope that Mr. McElroy does the same especially since he was given a full refund.

Bronze SupporterBronze Supporter

Beside the e-mails that we had going back and forth I never sent any additional e-mails to you from any "John Smith" account, that's just asinine to suggest.

At no time did I ever say anything slanderous about you, everything I have said I can back up with e-mails from you.

If you would have even suggested working with me from the get go it would have never got to this point. I would have quickly agreed to pay 1/2 the money towards replacement dummy guns, but all you wanted to do was blame me for not buying insurance even though by your own admission your new website does not allow it.

YOU are the one who took it to this level by your rude behavior once things went south and it is YOU who lost a customer who really wanted to do business with you.

WELCOME!

Northwest Firearms provides a place for gun owners of Oregon, Washington, and Idaho a place to converse,
organize, learn, educate, trade, and most importantly, work together to preserve our Second Amendment rights.

Participation is completely free and registration takes only a few moments.

About Northwest Firearms

We believe the 2nd Amendment is best defended through grass-roots organization, education, and advocacy centered around individual gun owners. It is our mission to encourage, organize, and support these efforts throughout Oregon, Washington, and Idaho.