Messages - The Ruffled Swordsman

Who would have thought Aaz would end up using his powers of quotation against one of Walter's precious Skully theories?! Et tu, Aazé?!

The source for this gag stems from the very, very beginning of this site. Before it was home to a forum, before it was even Skullknight.NET, it was "Walter's Sanctuary of Berserk" hosted on 50megs.com, a free hosting site. At the time, very few people had access to the actual manga. Almost all fans had seen the anime and that's about it. So, to bring people up to speed, my site hosted scans of the events directly after the Eclipse and a few key scenes between Vol 14-18 to give people a taste of what else was happening in the series. The fandom grew exponentially just a few years later.

The site also housed a speculations section, which I created while learning HTML and CSS in high school. It featured a few of my CHOICE teenage Berserk thoughts!

I think Judeau knew that Casca just didn't have any romantic feelings for him, but he still cares about her happiness. He wants her to find someone she can love and be loved by in return and he comes to think that this someone is Guts. Judeau seems to me to be a very observant and insightful character. In my opinion, Judeau is understanding enough to know that if the feelings just aren't there then there's no point in trying to force it, so he doesn't make a move on Casca because he believes she is simply not interested in him in that way. It seems to me that after Guts and Casca have their shared adventures before the battle for Doldrey, Judeau picks up on the shift in Casca's feelings for Guts, as I think it's after this point that he starts encouraging them to get together.

Going back to the look on Judeau's face when he sees that Guts and Casca are really together now, I think Judeau believed he was fine with it, but when he actually saw it happening it still hurt, just as Kraden said. Judeau may have thought he accepted it, but when he saw it in reality it was still painful to him, for that initial moment at least. His rational thinking and what he is feeling emotionally are at odds.

One thing i thought was key about Judeau is he had unrequited love for Casca, in the same way Casca had unrequited love for Griffith. I thought Judeau it goes without saying is a noble character, and I've often seen him recognized as such. While Casca was still in her mind's eye set on Griffith, Judeau was actually rooting for Guts, because of that perceptive quality you spoke of he saw something between them. Judeau being a traveling artist in the past, made it seem like he had an entertainer's persona. He was kept happy by the happiness of others, but he had a sadness to him, that he didn't reveal once to our eyes until right before his death.

I kind of imagine that Judeau wanted Casca to be free to find her own happiness, and he wanted the same for Guts. We saw in his last moments that Judeau was living a very self sacrificing life, which is why that one fan fic picture years ago that i saw on this forum. With judeau being pulled from this lazarus pit like pool of fire being reborn at elfhelm, was an awesome fitting picture.

I thought one of the most significant panels was one that took up the whole page, of griffith and rickert staring at one another. It hits home, and home in berserk is something that you never truly feel like you can get back to, and when you do it never seems to be what you were asking.

Griffith and Rickert standing there hit home, but it didn't bring back any good nostalgia, only a realization of what had come to pass. Despite all the unresolved issues brought up on the way to see the nest of the war demon army, that panel was showed the resolve that would follow SLAP!

Rickert's speech managed to both bring the feelings and articulate exactly, why this motherfucker should have never asked him to be apart of the new band of the hawk in the first place. He planted each one of those individual swords and made each tribute for his fallen comrade.

I liked how in every situation that drew a contrast between Rickert's old time with the band of the hawk, for example when he noted the difference of the capitol city, he would stare at the old badge.

And that all led up to him finding the distinction he needed within in it.

I'm not sure Rickert knew what he was going to do ahead of time, but that panel where they stood of that took up the whole page, brought it to ahead.

It wasn't that he needed to see griffith to hear his regrets as Locus said, it was to bring it all to ahead to confront it directly.

Opinions that make no sense considering the Blackswordsman arc, the introduction arc, showed that Berserk was a full on fantasy.

hahaha true. But Berserk was ahead of its time, before there was ever game of thrones or a live action adaptation of tolkien, there was Berserk.

Its fantasy realism makes the reader/viewer susceptible to view it as reality, and the shock of the explosion of fantasy is so powerful i think its confusing to them because its so effective in making you accept the reality of the world being broken in on by the fantasy, the same way the characters do.

Its crazy because they even warn you as you said, in the beginning what has happened. And they even drop Griffith's name in the anime, and he sees Fempto when he's fighting the count.

What's crazy is its good enough to where the reader/viewer can forget, during the golden age arc/anime.

And i think this opinion comes from anime fans mostly, but even in the anime they set that up at the beginning. Somehow you get lost in it, and its still a shock to the system.

My friends who introduced me to Berserk and everybody i know whose seen it, for some reason experience the eclipse and Griffith's turn as the most shocking turn of events, even though its so heavily foreshadowed.

upfront i saw the movie with a group of friends. We had watched the previous two movies together, besides one friend who only watched the second one.

These trilogy's have had me excited for each addition. Some of the other people in this group less so, because from the very beginning the question from all our lips was, would this somehow lead towards other parts of the manga being adopted.

Looking for signs of that in each movie is encouraging, but most people tell me do to funding this won't happen. But i did give me hope, false or otherwise, from the opening in each seemingly reflecting not so much the golden age but the group post eclipse. It's weird seeing Isidro, schierkie, in the opening.

this isn't a long review, but some moments during the movie.

Seeing puck was a heartfelt moment, it's like seeing the hope for the future, even before that optimism is necessary. I always felt that way about him. But him appearing was ever so moving.

This is stupid, but i was pissed the eclipse was blue.

It went down a bit differently than i remembered, but that's not a complaint, I also missed judo's speech.

From what i recall the bits of griffith's transformation seemed spaced out differently in such a way that, was eerie.

I would say they did a great job with this, this is where i saw the movie as wanting to be different than both the manga, and the anime's telling of this story.

And as a story telling device, it seemed to play of the other forms of the story. It was wrenching viewing this, because i feel the way they told it made Griffith's transformation a celestial one.

And there's nothing more devastating then the perspective of the hawks and of people, getting crushed by something that through this presentation choice had the effect of a celestial law.

They gave it this transcendent tone, after selling out the hawks. But the way they told it, or perhaps more fittingly showed it with the perspective from outer space, and him looking like pure light for a second.

It's crushing that they showcased in this transformation as everything its cracked up to be, for what it took to make it happen and that he's going to become evil incarnate within the next few scenes.

The other people i watched it with were satisfied, except they were all focused on the eclipse being different in some way or another, me as well with the blue.

but it was an interesting dynamic when contrasted with the anime telling of the final days of the band of the hawk, and the manga telling.

Some how it left me feeling excited for future movies with more of the story.

I know this has probably been answered before but I couldn't find the thread. Can someone explain to me why people say the Golden Age Arc is the pinnacle of Berserk's storyline? I've seen people even go as far as saying it starts to suck after it. I thought the arc was amazing but I actually like the Mozgus arc better. Aside from just jumping on the bandwagon and letting other people's opinions influence their appreciation of the story, do they just not understand the purpose for certain changes in the dynamic of the story? I know a lot of people say it is too lighthearted now that schierke and isidro are on the team, but I think it's pretty inevitable that the story is going to become extremely dark again. Overall, I just don't understand these people's complaints...

They probably miss the characters that died. It's pretty devastating. Some people think that Breaking Bad didn't become good until season 3, and then some also say it wasn't good after season four.

I think that has to do with the epic saga that was contained within that time. When it ended, people didn't see how it could continue.

I've heard some opinions about how the fantastical elements don't fit, that Berserk is based in realism, even though there are fantastical elements throughout this part of the story.

Please elaborate on what the "clearly cyclical nature of fate" is that the God Hand relies on to advance its goals. It's not readily apparent to me. Aside from that, you're replying to something outside of its context, which is Kraden's theory.

If you're talking about Gaiseric's tale, you're really not bringing anything to the table.

I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about.

Like I told Kraden, there is absolutely nothing in the story hinting at any such thing. That the God Hand has been getting closer to its goal is completely obvious, but it doesn't necessitate a cycle like what Kraden proposed. Anyway, aside from repeating what's already been said in the thread, you're also contradicting yourself. If their goal is to come into the world (the corporeal world I'm assuming), then "resetting" the world is a failure in and of itself, since they're not in the world anymore afterwards. But of course, we know that this isn't their goal (merely a step), so this is wrong to begin with.

If the God Hand is purged at the end of each cycle, then they hardly have an overarching agenda, it's the Idea of Evil who does. But, again, you speak of things that "could" be without having any solid ground for them.

Then it's hardly a failure, if it was all arranged to happen that way.

Complete annihilation and return to a God Hand-less state seems to rule out a victory for the members of the God Hand.

the god hand counts on a repeated fate or a reoccuring situation, to have to occur for an apostle to enter the world or for fempto to be made.

The fact that there was a similar eclipse like even is also a reoocuring fate.

The parrallels between the first elclipse itself were pretty much seem like another cycle of the same exact thing.

To clarify these cycles have enough to suggest that they are completing the god hand, and that new members are brought in through them.

And much of what guts and skull knight talk about suggests, skull knight has lived what guts is going through before.

It seems like there plenty of events that come around that the god hand hopes to have align a specific way, and that the skull knight waits to make sure they don't align that way.

It's not suggesting a cycle if you think its gonna reset to zero, but if you think there is some over arching thing that happens while human history seems to reset itself, and lead up to some kind of situation that seems to give some kind of condition that the god hand wants, then the fact that we know that they've been at this a long time, and there was an era that was a direct parrallel to what happened with griffith suggests that there are cylces within the berserk universe.

It doesn't suggest that the god hand would want everything to reset to zero. But you were actually the one that argued it would have to mean that if there were cycles at play, and would thusly make them incompetent.

However the god hand clearly could want to set everything to a kind of zero. Given that Void probably represents an affinity towards...i don't know the void.

i don't think there attempting to undo themselves, but there finding away in during a specific occasion that they needed, and we know that an kind of eclipse has happened before.

We don't know what came out of that eclipse, but it they could have failed or they could have succeeded

if they did succeed then what was the success of that eclipse, another god hand member. If they did fail did they have to wait again for griffith, for the cylcle to repeat itself so they could try again.

Either way.

I don't think the god hand has to be purged, once again, one of the parts of his theory that makes sense is the cylical nature of the way the god hand works.

I'm glad to see how you can see that apparent failure, isn't always failure when it comes to the god hand, now maybe understanding what cannot be explained as one giant arrangment by the god hand, without pieces of it failing, and then turning out to be advantageous for them as time goes on, would lead one to understand, how you wouldn't know why the whole world resetting would or wouldn't be advantageous for them.

Or even what is or isn't arranged. You don't even know if they are on the same page with one another. But you do know that they have one mechanism of the brand that is designed to do one thing, that is prophezized to do one thing.

And that mechanism has to fail on a nightly basis, in order for the rest of that causality to happen.

You know that guts sword is specifically powerful because of how many times he has overcome that arrangment and has gained spirtual power because of it.

You don't really know exactly whats up until the end game.

and you don't know how failures are turned into successes, or which parts of our reality the god hand are merely going through the motions with.

it's not clear that they wanted Ganishka to rebel, because they arranged for him to feel the call to griffith from the very beginning and yet the way his rebellion turned out fit perfectly into their burgeoning designs.

it's supposed to be enigmatic, and they clearly see outside the boundaries of the way we have to see reality, they don't have the same chains. And don't even come from the same plane.

In fact if you listen to what Void says, its not clear he even concieves of what's happening as a scheme, but as a fate. Clearly they have designs, but to think that it's the kind of plan, that works like practical set up is missing the point.

Its more like the cosmos or the universe works this way. To which other points of view disagree. But he offers one that suggests this is the fabric of the universe that they are dealing with.

And you have to admit its something that the world is allowing, and even seems to be prepared for.

The god hand manipulates things, for sure, but there manipulation includes turning any small victory into success.

But you in any intuitive was can't explain the god hands motives or machinations in terms of what would make sense or what you would think would make sense.

Their manipulations cannot be explained without tides turning back and forth, with them being able to seemingly see how those tides will turn or assurances that in the end its going to end up going that way, that its fate.

In fact the idea that its their will, is completly counter to void's anti will conception of everything. In fact to even become an apostle or in griffith's case a god hand, your will has to break.

So we wouldn't really know why the god hand would strive for their own anihaltion and the return to zero, but then again they aren't necessarily pro striving.

I think there are several problems with the basis of your argument. For one thing, what would the purpose of this cycle be? The God Hand (and more importantly their master, the Idea of Evil) obviously has a specific goal in mind. They're not just part of a natural process of the world, they're willfully interfering with the natural order of things to execute a specific agenda. So, building on that, don't you think the Idea of Evil would have to be hugely incompetent in order for things to cycle over like this? One would expect it not to want to regularly lose its hold on the world (through its minions).

I don't know if any of the cycles in berserk, mean that the world of fantasy and reality have merged before in the distinct way that they have with fempto.

But there is clearly a cylical nature of fate that the god hand relies on, in order to advance their "goals."

We know there was a similar event to the eclipse that leveled an area, that we learn of even before the first eclipse occurs.

I always thought that was probably another member of the god hand coming into existence, not a reoccurring fifth one.

But there isn't anything about a cylical process that would be in opposition to what the god hand wanted.

Unless you assume that the world resetting in some way is somehow a failure on their part.

When we don't really know what there exact goal is except to come into the world, i don't know how it could be a failure, when it seems like just something that gradually over time they have been getting closer to their goal.

It could have taken so many cycles for them to reach where they are at in whatever over arching agenda they have to be completed.

Also most of the events that have been failures for the god hand, they have used as to work as favors in some sense of another.

Every night Guts is accosted by demons and apparitions in attempt to claim someone with the brand, but they aren't "planning" for him to escape, however they have used his continued survival in whatever events they do orchestrate.

They call for the emperor to heed his apostle nature and bow to griffith and he resists, but they use the events that occured specificially because of his rebellion as if it were predetermined that he would do so.

The mysterious way in which the god hand works seems to suggest, that you can't rule out what they do as a failure because it appear to be.

Check out some of the info on skullknight.net; It says Miura has enough material for roughly 100 + Volumes, am I right? Hey, if that's the case, bring it on. If he does plan on keeping the series going for that long, I sure as hell hope he's got some tricks up his sleeve to keep Guts from getting all f***ed up by the Berserk Armor. With any luck, he'll realize it's pretty much trashing his body and if he hopes to be around long enough to kick Griffith's ass, he'd better dump it.

I always wonder if maybe he will keep the story going after Guts. I don't want him to, but I could see a ten to twenty percent chance that eventually a side character could take up as the main character. It would really be a stretch, but if his main inspiration is the Guin Saga then it doesn't seem completely out of the question. I don't think he will though. It would be hard to read with Guts permanently taken out of the story.

Well I always thought they still used elf powder, but I remember thinking that Guts's wounds were to big to be healed by those but I guess I was just thinking about the spirtual wounds Slan inflicted on him, back when the Skull Knight discovered the DragonSlayer could cut Astral bodies.

Hmm its slight exageration as in its not literally one wound after another but considering basically every night back in those days Guts fought demons its safe to say his body wasn't exactly resting.

He was injured and fleeing from them right after his battle with Rosine. There was no reopening, because the wounds just weren't mended at all in the first place. And there was no problem with healing, it's just that there hadn't been enough time for that, especially since Puck hadn't even been with him at the time (he saved him from specters just before the H.I.C.K. arrived). His injuries healed well enough after that and we never heard about it again.

Yes, I'm sure. When Guts refers to the pain, he's talking about the armor's effects. The spiritual medicine he mentions is the ointment Schierke applied to the wounds caused by Slan to help their healing. She's not a doctor.

Okay, though I think I had made it clear it was what I was talking about (not to mention it's the topic of the thread). It's no big deal anyway. But again, I'm not sure it's fair to say his body was in "horrible shape" before his encounter with Slan. Of course he was already covered in scars, but thanks to Puck and to his natural endurance he was doing fine.

Hmm that makes since I guess. I thought that Flora charms were to heal the spiritual wounds but Schierke was healing actual wounds. In that context that I spoke of he isn't talking about the armor he is talking about his wounds. Because Schierke says he should have rested for four or five more days so his wounds could heal. I will recheck it again.

I think its fair to say his body was in horrible shape, I mean he is missing an arm an eye. I think of Puck's mending as more keeping Guts body from getting any worse. Since he is constantly fighting and moving on , Puck was just damage control because there was never anytime to fully repair. When one wound healed another one opened.

I wouldn't say that the reopening of wounds has been a constant theme in the manga. If anything, I think it only became prominent after Guts was wounded by Slan in the Qliphoth, since those particular wounds were astral and could not be definitively healed. Certainly Guts has been wounded a lot over the course of the story though, I'm not saying it wasn't the case.

You must be mistaken, Schierke has absolutely no healing abilities. At most she can bandage a wound. The elves have been the absolute best in that domain so far.

Well I'm telling you it doesn't have anything to do with Guts' senses slowly disappearing. Not his state in general but that particular ailment. We're not talking about cuts here, we're talking about him not being able to taste food anymore. That's not something that can be influenced by simple wounds. And besides, it's been made clear in the manga that it was an inexorable side effect of wearing the armor.

I would say that it is heavily featured during the time when the Knights of the Holy Iron Chain were pursing Guts. It makes a point that the only way they captured him was because of his injuries not healing properly and being reopened so frequently that it finally caught up to him.

Hmmm are you sure? I seem to recall at the end of Volume 27 Guts saying something like, "Its true that the pain doesn't dissapear completely like when I'm fighting, but thinks to your master's charms, your medicine, and the little guys I'm doing much better." That sounds like she plays a big role in his healing process.

I didn't mean to infer that Guts the loss of his senses was becuase of his injuries. I just meant that his body was already in horrible shape beforehand. Sorry for the misunderstanding on that regard.

Clearly Guts was the key behind Griffith's mental state at the time of the Eclipse

but if Guts was a pawn for causality why then did he survive the Eclipse.

All the Hawks ended up as pawns for Griffith but only Guts and Casca survived.

It could be said that Guts life leading up to that moment was apart of causality and fate, but it could be that he has been struggling against fate his whole life.

Just like when Skull Knight warns Guts that the Eclipse will happen in a year and that he and his friends will surely die, he follows it up by saying but remember you were born from a corpse and you have struggled your whole life, and that could mean something.

Maybe, what I'm trying to say is that Guts might have been destined his whole life to end up where he did at the Eclipse, but the struggler inside of him changed fate that day.

That's why I think Skull Knight says it could mean something, because it was possible that Guts life leading up to that point was carefully constructed by fate/God of Evil but it might not be. For Instance Zodd sees both Guts and Griffith in action and notes what a struggler Guts is but he doesn't infer that Guts is outside of the realm of causality. He sees their fate and accurately predicts it, but their was something in Guts that causality couldn't predict.

Again Like Skull Knight says Guts isn't outside of the river on the land, he just isn't a shadow moving across it he is more like a fish struggling against the current. He is still surrounded by causality he just fights against it.

It's true he's been hard on his body in the past, never resting for long and always getting wounded, but since he's been traveling with Puck that can't be said to have been much of a problem (before Slan's astral wounds and the fight at Flora's mansion at least). Having an infinite supply of magical elf dust sure helps for a man like him.

Let's be clear about it though: what's happening to him now isn't a consequence of any wound he's received, it's a side effect of merely wearing the armor. It's probably linked to the fact that it prevents its wearer from feeling any pain and fear. It must slowly damage the nerves or do something equivalent.

But there were many occasions where he would bust open wounds that Puck had just dressed it was a constant theme. Thats why he needs Schierke, her healing prowess is much more advanced than old puck's.I don't know if I would say that Guts Past injuries/or way of fighting doesn't have anything to do with his current state. Sure the reason its happening is the armor, but its not as if the armor was inflicting wounds on a blank canvas, Guts's body was clearly already damaged goods.

Well yeah, and I think it's on purpose too. It shows that even though he's resting these days, his state isn't getting any better in that regard.

I agree, throughout Berserk it is a constant theme Guts does not heal his injuries for long,and sometimes at all, Except now with the armor its more than catching up to him. The armor would be doing this to him anyway but his long propensity for not healing his injuries is not doing him any favors.

Yeah. Without even speculating about who he was or what happened to him, it's clear and it's been repeated for years that as the story currently stands, it's just not very likely that there'll be a shocking relevation about the identity of Guts' father.

I totally agree. Now that I think about it none of the Band of the Hawk had strong parental figures. Sure there is nothing said about Corcus, Pippin, or Judeau, but besides Corcus their all relatively young so one would think they didn't have a strong relationship with their parents. Heck I think Rickert is eight or so and however never mentions a parental figure. That could be another reason why they flocked to Griffith.

It's because of the Berserk's armor. That's part of its side effects. Skull Knight warned Guts about it in episode 237. All his senses are slowly dulling and disappearing. His sight, but also his sense of taste, and probably the others as well. In episode 236 we can see that his hand is trembling uncontrollably, and later that he can't properly taste Serpico's food. Don't be surprised if in a future episode he's shown as having trouble smelling something or hearing what people say.

It's indeed going to be a major plot point in the story, because if he keeps wearing the Berserk's armor, his senses will eventually completely disappear.

Ahhh I remember the hand trembling but nothing was as striking as his vision fading. It goes without saying that Guts's one eye has narrowly avoided blindess on many occasion. So it hit home pretty hard to see it fade.

It's not like there was a possibility for things to "go back to the way it was" anyway. Griffith was badly crippled and Guts wasn't going to serve under him again, no matter what. A lot of the remaining Hawks wanted Guts to become their leader, too. Casca was clearly in love with him, and struggling not to leave with him only out of loyalty and because of Griffith's dramatic state. I understand your train of thought, and I agree with Walter that it's a nice and romantic concept, but when you think more thoroughly it just doesn't make much sense to me.

Ahhhh I see, I didn't mean to say that's what he actually says, its just one possibility I thought of. Not to say it is a definite one.Your right it is very far fetched to think things could ever become the way they were again but thats why I thought it was so cool if that is what Griffith was saying. It sort of puts over to me just how definite the feeling he gets is, that this impending doom, with all the apostles coming out of the lake, is more of a definite detriment then his own destroyed body.

Well, I'm sorry to break down your interpretation, but originally when the episode was published in Young Animal, the line was complete and it was: "If you touch me now, I'll never be able to forgive you again." It was only shortened later on, when the volume came out.

Also, Griffith didn't know the apostles were there at the time, and I don't think he knew the Eclipse was about to start. He had just reached a breaking point (which is incidentally what started the ceremony).

What about saying "If you touch me now, I'll never be able to forgive you again." Contradicts thinking If you touch me now it will never go back to the way it was. Saying he can never forgive him, reinforces that in away for me. I don't pretend to know exactly what it means. But the feeling I get from someone saying I'll never be able to forgive you again, is that their saying if you do this it can never go back to the way it was.

I don't really think who Guts's biological father will be important. Just like we don't know his birth mother's name. His father is probably dead right now if his mother was hung from a tree, its more than likely that his father was killed too, or that he left after he found out she was pregnant.

I always took it to mean something along the lines of If you touch me it can never go back to the way it was. Griffith's not saying he wants it to stay the way it is but Guts running towards him and the apostles coming behind him Griffith realizes that Guts being in the immediate vicinity of him that he will be apart of whatever is happening.