The Pats (2001-2014) are the greatest team of all time. Why? One reason is no one has embodied the concept of team like BB and TB. 2). No one (except maybe the Cowboys 1966-85) has produced so much for so long. Does BB have something to learn from Carroll? Sure, but if I were Carroll I would try to learn from BB how to build a team when most of star players are injured.

The Pats (2001-2014) are the greatest team of all time. Why? One reason is no one has embodied the concept of team like BB and TB. 2). No one (except maybe the Cowboys 1966-85) has produced so much for so long. Does BB have something to learn from Carroll? Sure, but if I were Carroll I would try to learn from BB how to build a team when most of star players are injured.

How about the 60's Packers, or the mid 80's-mid 90's 49ers, or the 70's Steelers. Every decade has a team you can point to just so happens the 00's were the Pats but things change and we need to change with them. It's evident what we did before isn't working today with this group that BB hand picked so why do the same thing and say well it worked before. Or should we take a Packers approach out of the histrory books. I mean the trophy is named after Lombardi, his approch must be fantastic! Not sure why anyone doesn't still use it....

I don't want to get into a bash BB debate because I think he coached his butt off this past season and unlike many here I really like Pete Carrol's style and I think he is a heck of a head coach. I am not sure Carroll could do better than what Bill did with the Pats this year but that Seahawks team was as prepared as any super bowl team has ever been.

Lets not overreact on this OFF/DEF debate. A year ago a good offense beat a great defense in the superbowl. The Pats beat the Ravens in the 2011 AFC championship game and the Giants beat the 49ers in the NFC championship game the same year. It can be done, though it's not easy, but the Broncos by far played their worst game of the year. You are not winning many games with 4 turnovers and they nearly had 2 more. This being said Bill better be learning from Carroll because I suspect the 49ers and the Seahawks will be the favorites going into next season and the Pats better be prepared for them if they have any hopes of winning the super bowl.

Amazing hard hitting defense. Full of undrafted and 4th, 5th, 6th round draft picks. Superb corners and safeties. Anybody still want to say McCourty is an elite safety? Look at Seattle if you want elite safeties.

Seahawks Defense made more plays in todays SB than the Patriots Defense has done in the pay 5 playoffs combined.

It is sad to see how superior the Seahawks roster is when compared to the Patriots roster. Better DL, DE's, LB's, Safeties and Cornerbacks.

I do not really see how we can ever have anything close to what the Seahawks have. Belichick has proven to be incompetent when it comes to building a great defense. Again, how it is even possible that the Patriots have not drafted an elite pass rusher, cornerback or safety in almost 10 years!

Moron,

Pete carroll is not the gm. He never wanted wilson. That is a fact. Almost all of seattle's pass rushers were not drafted.

Our last two sb d's allowed 10 and 13 points all game.

Brady sucks as does manning in the pansy shotgun spread.

Try to stay on topic man. Do you HAVE to take a shot at Brady at every chance? What a fraud...I can tell you are gonna be someones B*tch today. Im just gonna sit back and watch and laugh....

I dont have time for your lies and deflection today. Eat up Buddy! BB been building this D for 8 years and arrCol comes in and has a great D in 2 years....LOL

He actually did it in 4 yrs not 2.

If thats what you think. This D been good for a while though. Milloy retired in 2010., The rebuild started THEN, In 2 years, 2012, this D was pretty good. Why do I need to lie? They allowed 15 ppg in 2012 which was good for FIRST in the league, JUST 2 YEARS after Milloy RETIRED. He was on the team that went 7-9 and beat the Saints in 2010. smh at you frauds being jealous of another team and also being ignorant and uninformed. Stop it, its embarrasing.

Wrong the building of his D started when he drafted Earl Thomas #14th overall in and Chancellor in the 5th rd in...2010. Thats when it began, Sherman and Maxwell both came in 2011. Stop being unimformed.

Are you dumb or stupid....serious question. It began in 2010, by your own words. They had the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE in 2012!!!! Thats a TWO YEAR TURNAROUND...Gosh you guys are crazy today. Petey got your panties in a bunch??!! Wow, just keep posting so we can REALLY see how dumb you are....smdh

Let me put you on ignore so I dont waste my time today. Anybody with any sense want to debate this topic??

You really are an a complete idiot. So under your reasoning I guess Carroll's tenure didn't officially start until 2012. Are you really that dumb or are you just that ignorant. Please put me on ignore you buffoon.

so this is what happens when you get called out for lying?? You try to twist MY words so onlookers think IM the fraud?? Ok, got it. Im still waiting for YOU to make any sense. Lets back up since we are clearly not on page. I said he built the secondary in 2 years. That means from 2010-2012, ending in 2012 when they had the # 1 defense. Why am I saying his tenure started in 12'?? You are a bad backpeddler. Take advice from Rusty. You lose buddy. Sorry, no way to change facts and YOU were wrong. Deal with it

No you said "Carroll comes in and has a great D in 2 years....LOL." I merely stated it was 4 yrs not 2. His vision of his defense started w/ the drafting of Earl Thomas and continued through this season. Was his D solid after 2 yrs, yes. Did it get better, yes and last nights performance showed that. After that you started calling me ignorant and uninformed merely because I disagreed with you. Yes he and Schneider built a solid D quickly we all know that. Now go back to putting me on ignore.

So you dont think he ARRIVED at having a good D until he won it all?? EVEN though he had the TOP RATED D in 2012??? NO, I think you just tried to sneak one by and got caught like Rusty does all the time. Maybe if I wasnt here. Nice backpedal loser. I never said anything about winning SBs. I said Building the D, and having the NUMBER ONE D doesnt mean you are finished, I dont know WHAT does. Sure they got better, but theve been at the top for 2 to 3 years. Next time do your research before trying to come here and sneak in some BS.

Nope didn't try and sneak anything by. No fool I'm saying this yrs D was his best yet and clearly it was and I know you agree with that but you just can't bring yourself to say it. Please put me back on ignore

see humility can go a long way. YOU could have ended this long ago. I said he built a D in 2 years....2010-2012. YOu said it took 4 years. Starting w/ME,,,,,WHY? So AFTER i PROVED it was 2 years, YOU THEN move on to say, THIS year was his BEST defense to which I never argued. That IS what a classic Backpedal IS, its online for the world to see ALL because you tried to be sneaky. So dont try to change the debate. You said it took 4 years which was a lie because in 2012 they had the best D. ANY way you slice it, it was NEVER 4 years and YOU were wrong. Now you go on ignore, but make sure you tell the story right. HUMILITY my friend.....learn it.

Having said that BB needs to check his ego at the door. IMO BB loves to make sure everyone knows he is the best by filling thr roster with average talent and still win. I think he gets off on filling the roster by dumpster diving and then coach them up and still win. Kudos to BB, great job you are the best !! But in the process he's doing the team and fans a disservice by making his ego number one prioity.

Geat coacing is invaluable but you still win with talent !!!! BB likes to take way too much the credit !!! He needs to stop making it all about himself !!!

Thypical know nothing bandwagon fan thread. Pete Carroll was a failure as an NFL coach until this year. Typical of the morons here to jump on his 1 SB win as a reason to crown him the best head coach in history

Or maybe Carroll is open minded and smart enough to evolve while Belichick is still stuck in 1989.... with the perkins erharhdt popcorn-farrt system

Seattle is the flavour of the month -- I get it. They won using cheap talent and they drafted well. Peter Carroll is a better coach than a lot of us thought and he's a motivator. Their GM found lots of diamonds in the rough and has done a commendable job building that team with fast guys. Congrats Seahawks, you had a great season and your defense was among the most impressive Superbowl defenses I can remember watching.

However, those of you saying the Patriots should emulate the Seahawks in every facet? I don't buy it. Learn from Pete Carroll? Is he now the model for other NFL coaches to strive for? How spoiled some of us sound. This Pats team was in the AFCCG and with a few less injuries and a few plays here or there would have been playing in Foxboro. Not saying they would have won the SB if they got there, but they were thisclose to getting there again. They controlled their destiny in the latter part of the year but didn't deliver and get home field. But this team overachieved given the injuries, the roster turnover and some early struggles. No shame in that. And guess what? With a good draft and some shrewd roster moves they can be right there again next year.

Let's see how the Seahawks do when their young guys hit FA, they get a few injuries, they miss on a few picks in the draft and when Carroll's defensive staff is poached because of the success it has had. They are poised to do good things in the next few years, but they'll find out, like the Patriots did, how it feels to be the team playing with a target on its back, and they'll get every team's best effort every week because they are the reigning champs.

The Seahawks could be right there again next year, or they could succumb to the difficulties a lot of teams have the year after they win the SB. In a league with a lot of former champs (Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Giants) struggling, the Pats are still a legit contender.

This article touched on things he can learn. I dont agree or disagree but I figured I would post something back on the original topic. There are plenty of guys who come here from bad programs and LOVE the culture of ALL BUSINESS. The thing is we dont have a team of vets anymore. THIS is why its interested to debate this topic. Carrol and BB BOTH have young teams. Carrol has the advantage of recently coaching in the NCAA where he has not only coached a lot of these guys but competed against him. This gives him a better scouting report to college players # 1. Also his rah rah style is perfect for guys coming right out of college.(it didnt work here with all the vets and they were out in clubs, not focused)

What Carrol has brought was something new. He lets his players be themselves. He has days where you have to compete for your job. He does things that are fun because he has young guys. BB gives his guys a pop quiz before the game in which if they dont pass, they dont play. Different methods. Not saying one is better. I will say that Carrol knows the value of rotating lineman. He brought in a ton of them and let them compete. He keeps them fresh by rotating. BB wears his players down by playing them EVERY snap due to his inability to find solid depth on the line.

All in All, BB has been stubborn and despite what most say here has NOT put this team in the best position to win every year. In fact one could say he is squandering opptys. Sure we get to the dance every year cuz we have Brady and weak division but imagine if he actually put some talent out there.....He refuses to hire real coaches and he ignores his scouts and makes head scratching pics while Brady gets older and older.

Seattle is the flavour of the month -- I get it. They won using cheap talent and they drafted well. Peter Carroll is a better coach than a lot of us thought and he's a motivator. Their GM found lots of diamonds in the rough and has done a commendable job building that team with fast guys. Congrats Seahawks, you had a great season and your defense was among the most impressive Superbowl defenses I can remember watching.

However, those of you saying the Patriots should emulate the Seahawks in every facet? I don't buy it. Learn from Pete Carroll? Is he now the model for other NFL coaches to strive for. How spoiled some of us sound. This Pats team was in the AFCCG and with a few less injuries and a few plays here or there would have been playing in Foxboro. Not saying they would have won the SB if they got there, but they were thisclose to getting there again. They controlled their destiny in the latter part of the year but didn't deliver and get home field. But this team overachieved given the injuries, the roster turnover and some early struggles. No shame in that. And guess what? With a good draft and some shrewd roster moves they can be right there again next year.

Let's see how the Seahawks do when their young guys hit FA, they get a few injuries, they miss on a few picks in the draft and when Carroll's defensive staff is poached because of the success it has had. They are poised to do good things in the next few years, but they'll find out, like the Patriots did, how it feels to be the team playing with a target on its back, and they'll get every team's best effort every week because they are the reigning champs.

The Seahawks could be right there again next year, or they could succumb to the difficulties a lot of teams have the year after they win the SB. In a league with a lot of former champs (Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Giants) struggling, the Pats are still a legit contender.

Absolutely they are a legit contender but there are definitely things to learn from Pete Carrol and the Seahawks. That is, if you and Belichick and McD have the ability to learn and Evolve.

this team Seattle just dismantled and moved the ball on the very defense that shut you out for 3 quaters in you biggest game of the year... They did this with a creative set of plays , a 3rd round small QB , a rugged RB, one fast wideout and a bunch of late round receivers who catch the ball. There is a lot to learn from that.

Seattle moved the ball , Patriots didn't. Explain.

My explanation is the tired and stale thinking offense that caused big game failures ever since Charlie WEis left. NO creativity . Nothin new . Bad strategy. FAIL.... so learn.

Seattle is the flavour of the month -- I get it. They won using cheap talent and they drafted well. Peter Carroll is a better coach than a lot of us thought and he's a motivator. Their GM found lots of diamonds in the rough and has done a commendable job building that team with fast guys. Congrats Seahawks, you had a great season and your defense was among the most impressive Superbowl defenses I can remember watching.

However, those of you saying the Patriots should emulate the Seahawks in every facet? I don't buy it. Learn from Pete Carroll? Is he now the model for other NFL coaches to strive for. How spoiled some of us sound. This Pats team was in the AFCCG and with a few less injuries and a few plays here or there would have been playing in Foxboro. Not saying they would have won the SB if they got there, but they were thisclose to getting there again. They controlled their destiny in the latter part of the year but didn't deliver and get home field. But this team overachieved given the injuries, the roster turnover and some early struggles. No shame in that. And guess what? With a good draft and some shrewd roster moves they can be right there again next year.

Let's see how the Seahawks do when their young guys hit FA, they get a few injuries, they miss on a few picks in the draft and when Carroll's defensive staff is poached because of the success it has had. They are poised to do good things in the next few years, but they'll find out, like the Patriots did, how it feels to be the team playing with a target on its back, and they'll get every team's best effort every week because they are the reigning champs.

The Seahawks could be right there again next year, or they could succumb to the difficulties a lot of teams have the year after they win the SB. In a league with a lot of former champs (Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Giants) struggling, the Pats are still a legit contender.

Absolutely they are a legit contender but there are definitely things to learn from Pete Carrol and the Seahawks. That is, if you and Belichick and McD have the ability to learn and Evolve.

this team Seattle just dismantled and moved the ball on the very defense that shut you out for 3 quaters in you biggest game of the year... They did this with a creative set of plays , a 3rd round small QB , a rugged RB, one fast wideout and a bunch of late round receivers who catch the ball. There is a lot to learn from that.

Seattle moved the ball , Patriots didn't. Explain.

My explanation is the tired and stale thinking offense that caused big game failures ever since Charlie WEis left. NO creativity . Nothin new . Bad strategy. FAIL.... so learn.

If I can learn? Somehow I don't think BB gives a toss what I think. The Pats could certainly stand to change some of the things they do on offense. No argument there. But to say Pete Carroll and the Seahawks are the ones to learn it from is not legitimate, unless you favour replacing Brady and getting a Wilson clone. It was also a neutral site in the SB, and the Pats played in Denver, which is a hard place to win in. They were bad, they looked listless, and their offense sputtered. I'd say the Denver loss is more about the Pats' D not being up to the task -- the Pats gave up 500 yards and lost the TOP battle.

If you're saying Seattle's offense won that game I'd say the 8 points the Broncos put up say otherwise. That game was over in the first quarter after the Seattle D blew up everything the Denver O threw at them.

Patriots didnt run ONE reverse. I called it last week that Harvin would be running reverses to offset all the denver linebackers flowing to the ball on early downs. I saw it when we played. Blount never had a chance. Why cant Joshy look at the printouts and figure that out and make an adjustment? Weve lost many opptys at SB wins due to cheap, inexperienced asst. coaches. I keep hearing how smart Joshy is...but im like wow, I must be a genius. I can call a game better than him.

He cant come up with a play to keep Defenses honest but in 2 weeks he thought it would be good to run slater deep down the field on a shotgun, 4 wide formation(why not playaction) and waste away our early 3rd and shorts with moronic playcalling....??

Time for folks to wake up man. Then BB goes and fires HIS ONLY player/coach in peppers. Now we got nothing but wet behind the ears, yes man who have never played the game. The playcalling aint gonna get better. Its fine in reg. season but weve been thoroughly outcoached in big games for some time now and noone wants to admit it since its BB.

Seattle is the flavour of the month -- I get it. They won using cheap talent and they drafted well. Peter Carroll is a better coach than a lot of us thought and he's a motivator. Their GM found lots of diamonds in the rough and has done a commendable job building that team with fast guys. Congrats Seahawks, you had a great season and your defense was among the most impressive Superbowl defenses I can remember watching.

However, those of you saying the Patriots should emulate the Seahawks in every facet? I don't buy it. Learn from Pete Carroll? Is he now the model for other NFL coaches to strive for. How spoiled some of us sound. This Pats team was in the AFCCG and with a few less injuries and a few plays here or there would have been playing in Foxboro. Not saying they would have won the SB if they got there, but they were thisclose to getting there again. They controlled their destiny in the latter part of the year but didn't deliver and get home field. But this team overachieved given the injuries, the roster turnover and some early struggles. No shame in that. And guess what? With a good draft and some shrewd roster moves they can be right there again next year.

Let's see how the Seahawks do when their young guys hit FA, they get a few injuries, they miss on a few picks in the draft and when Carroll's defensive staff is poached because of the success it has had. They are poised to do good things in the next few years, but they'll find out, like the Patriots did, how it feels to be the team playing with a target on its back, and they'll get every team's best effort every week because they are the reigning champs.

The Seahawks could be right there again next year, or they could succumb to the difficulties a lot of teams have the year after they win the SB. In a league with a lot of former champs (Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Giants) struggling, the Pats are still a legit contender.

Absolutely they are a legit contender but there are definitely things to learn from Pete Carrol and the Seahawks. That is, if you and Belichick and McD have the ability to learn and Evolve.

this team Seattle just dismantled and moved the ball on the very defense that shut you out for 3 quaters in you biggest game of the year... They did this with a creative set of plays , a 3rd round small QB , a rugged RB, one fast wideout and a bunch of late round receivers who catch the ball. There is a lot to learn from that.

Seattle moved the ball , Patriots didn't. Explain.

My explanation is the tired and stale thinking offense that caused big game failures ever since Charlie WEis left. NO creativity . Nothin new . Bad strategy. FAIL.... so learn.

If I can learn? Somehow I don't think BB gives a toss what I think. The Pats could certainly stand to change some of the things they do on offense. No argument there. But to say Pete Carroll and the Seahawks are the ones to learn it from is not legitimate, unless you favour replacing Brady and getting a Wilson clone. It was also a neutral site in the SB, and the Pats played in Denver, which is a hard place to win in. They were bad, they looked listless, and their offense sputtered. I'd say the Denver loss is more about the Pats' D not being up to the task -- the Pats gave up 500 yards and lost the TOP battle.

If you're saying Seattle's offense won that game I'd say the 8 points the Broncos put up say otherwise. That game was over in the first quarter after the Seattle D blew up everything the Denver O threw at them.

Glad you mentioned Defense.... Since you can look at the Failure on that side of the ball against denver as well... What did Seattle do schemewise to clog up Denvers crossing routes for example. Yes Seattle had one more week of film to work with which showed what they would try to do .

Obviously they attacked D. Thomas muchlike Patriots attacked Marshall Faulk in SB36. Hit him hard disrupted him. used clever schemse like dropping a DL off the line of scrimmage to add a body over the middle to confuse peyton.

Nothing to learn from that stuff...? Keep in mind other than Earl Thomas, the secondary are not top round blue chippers. They are late rounders who were developed , coached up and put into this successful scheme.

To think they just line up and beat you like harvey says is just ignorant. There is plenty to learn.

The real funny thing I thought about last night is how BB has always been talked about as being some defensive genius. When you think about it, noone ever sais that about Carrol but shouldnt they? I mean when he was here our D was always good. He just lacked leadership and the players were outta control outside the stadium.

You can say Carrol benefited from Parcells SB roster and all that. What I will counter with...is SO DID BB. His SB wins ALL came with the roster left over from Parcells with some added players to keep it fresh(Harrison, Vrable,Asante) but ultimately guys Willi Mac, Bru, Ty Law, Tebucky, Milloy were the reason for our FIRST WIN... Since the great defenders have retired, BB has struggled to build a defense. Its been over 8 years now. JUST LAST year we finally saw something close to the past teams and that team was flawed with no depth as we soon found out. Peteys team are built to withstand injury and DID.

P.Carrol comes in and not only rebuilds the secondary in 2 years, he built a great D and a winning program the same way BB WANTED TO with late round pics and undrafted guys. Baldwin, Kearse, Tate, they all seem like they would start over our WRs. He has the top D in the league going on 3 years now. He JUST got there. BB is still looking to draft a competent CB so he doesnt have to trade pics for malcontent thugs. This is why all these fans are jealous and would rather slam Petey than give him his props.

Hopefully THIS is the offseason they change. FIRE JOSH and hire Gruden to be our Offensive guy. He is smart, creative and has tons of experience. Hire some ex players to coach up our young guys. Please!!!

Seattle is the flavour of the month -- I get it. They won using cheap talent and they drafted well. Peter Carroll is a better coach than a lot of us thought and he's a motivator. Their GM found lots of diamonds in the rough and has done a commendable job building that team with fast guys. Congrats Seahawks, you had a great season and your defense was among the most impressive Superbowl defenses I can remember watching.

However, those of you saying the Patriots should emulate the Seahawks in every facet? I don't buy it. Learn from Pete Carroll? Is he now the model for other NFL coaches to strive for. How spoiled some of us sound. This Pats team was in the AFCCG and with a few less injuries and a few plays here or there would have been playing in Foxboro. Not saying they would have won the SB if they got there, but they were thisclose to getting there again. They controlled their destiny in the latter part of the year but didn't deliver and get home field. But this team overachieved given the injuries, the roster turnover and some early struggles. No shame in that. And guess what? With a good draft and some shrewd roster moves they can be right there again next year.

Let's see how the Seahawks do when their young guys hit FA, they get a few injuries, they miss on a few picks in the draft and when Carroll's defensive staff is poached because of the success it has had. They are poised to do good things in the next few years, but they'll find out, like the Patriots did, how it feels to be the team playing with a target on its back, and they'll get every team's best effort every week because they are the reigning champs.

The Seahawks could be right there again next year, or they could succumb to the difficulties a lot of teams have the year after they win the SB. In a league with a lot of former champs (Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Giants) struggling, the Pats are still a legit contender.

Absolutely they are a legit contender but there are definitely things to learn from Pete Carrol and the Seahawks. That is, if you and Belichick and McD have the ability to learn and Evolve.

this team Seattle just dismantled and moved the ball on the very defense that shut you out for 3 quaters in you biggest game of the year... They did this with a creative set of plays , a 3rd round small QB , a rugged RB, one fast wideout and a bunch of late round receivers who catch the ball. There is a lot to learn from that.

Seattle moved the ball , Patriots didn't. Explain.

My explanation is the tired and stale thinking offense that caused big game failures ever since Charlie WEis left. NO creativity . Nothin new . Bad strategy. FAIL.... so learn.

If I can learn? Somehow I don't think BB gives a toss what I think. The Pats could certainly stand to change some of the things they do on offense. No argument there. But to say Pete Carroll and the Seahawks are the ones to learn it from is not legitimate, unless you favour replacing Brady and getting a Wilson clone. It was also a neutral site in the SB, and the Pats played in Denver, which is a hard place to win in. They were bad, they looked listless, and their offense sputtered. I'd say the Denver loss is more about the Pats' D not being up to the task -- the Pats gave up 500 yards and lost the TOP battle.

If you're saying Seattle's offense won that game I'd say the 8 points the Broncos put up say otherwise. That game was over in the first quarter after the Seattle D blew up everything the Denver O threw at them.

Glad you mentioned Defense.... Since you can look at the Failure on that side of the ball against denver as well... What did Seattle do schemewise to clog up Denvers crossing routes for example. Yes Seattle had one more week of film to work with which showed what they would try to do .

Obviously they attacked D. Thomas muchlike Patriots attacked Marshall Faulk in SB36. Hit him hard disrupted him. used clever schemse like dropping a DL off the line of scrimmage to add a body over the middle to confuse peyton.

Nothing to learn from that stuff...? Keep in mind other than Earl Thomas, the secondary are not top round blue chippers. They are late rounders who were developed , coached up and put into this successful scheme.

To think they just line up and beat you like harvey says is just ignorant. There is plenty to learn.

Agreed, Seattle had a good game plan smartly executed it. But that's what game film is for, and BB's D is game-plan specific. I'm sure there are things that BB will do to fluster Manning that he saw the Seahawks do on film -- the ol' NFL blueprint. Some guys here are saying emulate the Seahawks lock-stock-and-barrel. Again, not buying it. That's an argument that ignores the fact that such a committment means a huge change in philosphy on both sides of the ball. A mobile QB and smallish LBs is probably not in the cards.

To your point -- can BB and staff learn? I'd venture to say that BB is always learning from game film. That is much different than changing your core offensive defensive and drafting philosophies, however. The Pats will be the Pats and whether what they do in the Brady era is good enough to get to/win another SB -- we shall see.