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I've heard "mai" "maimatsu" called out as a way of yielding to an opponent, either as an alternative to tap out of a pin or at the end/loss of a practice bout (I've heard it most often in sports such as kendo). However, I can't seem to find any translations to figure out what this means -- and perhaps I have the assumed translation and romaji incorrect. Any ideas?

The word "maitta" is used when for one reason or another the man pinned cannot tap, eg, one arm is in juji gatame, the other trapped underneath him or otherwise entangled. Or so my judo referee friend says.

From a classical Japanese perspective, "kaku" was called a "four degree verb" (yondan doushi). When attached to the perfective "ta(ri)", it changed to "kaki-ta(ri)", and then thus through linguistic shift became modern "kaita".

What I suspect someone suggested to you was that "makeru" originally came from a verb "maku". Perhaps they then conjectured that from "maku" came "maita", like "kaita" came from "kaku".

However, "maku" was a "shimo-nidan doushi" (lower two-level verb). Which means that when you added the perfective inflection to it, the "maku" changed to "make", thus "maketa(ri)".

What is more likely is that the "surrender, submission" meaning of "mairu" arose from it's use as a word indicating humility in the speaker in relation to the one being spoken to. E.g., if I speak to an equal I say, "Kita" - I came. Speaking to a superior, I say, "Maitta".

Corruption from "maketa" to "maeta" to "maitta" seems to me that it'd be some regional variation that achieved common use. I don't want to dismiss that theory out of hand, but I'll just say I've never seen such a theory in any of my references.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer

Linguistically, that seems very unlikely. The lost medial "k-" occurs preceding "-i", thus "kaku" -> "kakita" -> "kaita", but not preceding "-e"....
Corruption from "maketa" to "maeta" to "maitta" seems to me that it'd be some regional variation that achieved common use. I don't want to dismiss that theory out of hand, but I'll just say I've never seen such a theory in any of my references.

Thinkng more on it, my source was a Saito from Gifu who was uchi deshi at the yoseikan. Everyone was saying maetta! (or maita/maitta!) in practice and I had first learned it in Alabama, but it occurred to me that I didn't really know the meaning of the word and it came up as I conversed with the Gifu man.

And now as I recall, he said that the actual word was magetta, which was from maketta, pronounced magetta and shortened to ma'etta.

I would say it's Shizuoka ben but it seems to be used throughout judo and so would be likely the same word but maybe not the only form of it. I would guess it came to the yoseikan from judo, but whether Saito from Gifu was correct, I cannot guess.

Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

I've been thinking this comes from "makeru," which is "to be beaten (in a sporting event)" or "to lose (in a sporting event)".

I understood "maeta" to be s shortened form of "maketa", meaning "I lost" (or "you won").

In fact, I think I remember one of the guys telling me that once, a long, long time ago...

Best wishes.

David

No, definitely not. "Maitta" has nothing to do with makeru; other than for tapping out on the judo mat, the verb maeru is also used for regretting a mistake or apologizing. Not the same as makeru at all.