What does it actually mean to be pro-life?

It seems that those aligning themselves to certain religions are very passionate about saving the unborn fetus yet when this fetus grows up and
doesn't align with their values, they would round them up and kill them. Anyone else find this odd? So which is more valuable, the human or the
meme?

Also, Religious pro-lifer's will oppose human cloning and might even have problems with IVF but those are techniques that add life. So which is more
valuable, the human or the meme?

These cases where memes subordinate humans are among the issues that prevent me from finding God. Is there anyone who can show me the way?

That's the major problem that I have with the democrat and republican ideologies. It seems they are both tailor made to be the perfect blend of wrong
ideas, or have at the very least evolved that way.

A great example is the pro-life vs pro-choice crowds. Generally, as a political ideology, republicans are pro life but pro death penalty. Democrats
are pro choice, but anti death penalty. In the case of the death penalty, its breaking the law to an extreme extent. In the case of abortion, the
fetus can't be a certain age or older, or the mother must be at a severe health risk or other factors. At its fundamental core, both the death
penalty and abortions are state sanctioned murder as long as very specific requirements are met.

It blows me away from an ethics viewpoint that one could be either of these ideologies.

Both republican and democrat ideologies fail logic tests for almost every major issue they take a stance on by taking the opposite stance on a
different but fundamentally ethically identical issue.

edit on 5-6-2013 by Galvatron because: (no reason given)

Edit: Expanding on my point to better clarify how #-brained these political ideologies are here are two examples:

1. A democrat will tell me that everyone should have equal opportunity. Great, I have no problem with that. Then in the very same breath they will
explain how there need to be exceptions such as affirmative action (an almost exclusively democrat policy). It immediately contradicts the first
statement by its very nature of exception. Logic test failed.

2. A republican will tell me corporate lobbying of governments is good capitalism, then in the very same breath tell me free markets are efficient.
It contradicts the first statement because a corporate lobbied government explicitly makes free markets relatively inefficient by making the market
not free by being full of government mandates. Logic test failed.

It is all the little gray areas that keep us struggling for the real truth. Those gray areas are why we have lawyers and courts and juries. They are
why we have opposite political views. They are why we have about 20 world religions with several hundred sub-religions.

The gray areas give us "Thou shalt not kill" and also "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth".

Develop your conscience, hone it, then follow it. Finding God is a personal journey that involves conversation with Him. You form a friendship and
that means YOU get to talk, too. It's called prayer. Lay it out there then go about your business. Soon, when the ego chatter has settled down,
you will "hear" that reply when you least expect it.

The term "pro-life" is a politically correct way of saying "pro-government intrusion".

Pregnancy is a singularly unique situation. It is my opinion that an individual person should always have the choice of what happens to their person.
If something is growing in my body, I want the right to make the decision about it, no matter WHAT it is. Whether it's a human life, a cancerous
tumor, or a kidney that I may wish to donate. It is in my body and it belongs to me and I should have the right to make decisions about it. I also
support Death with Dignity and the right to commit suicide. The government already dictates too much of what we do and invades our privacy beyond
limits. The "pro-life" agenda supports further intrusion by the government into our lives and I'm VERY much against that.

Having said that, I personally would not choose to have an abortion, and I would fight viciously for that choice. So, I am anti-abortion, but
pro-choice. They're personal choices, not something for society or the government to dictate to others.

Because they are a raping murderer who has forfeited their human rights by their inhuman actions.

To punish the tribe with the burden of this clear threat to the survival of the tribe, with the responsibility of caring and feeding a monster is
counter to natural selection and evolution.

It makes sense to remove demonstrated threats to the survival of the tribe. Anything else is de-evolutionary.

Okay, so in one instance you agree with state sanctioned murder, but the other you don't. Do you think you ought to have the right to defend yourself
with lethal force if you so feel threatened? Perhaps you are at home and someone breaks into your home. In many US states, the Castle doctrine would
absolve you of all guilt for killing the interloper. In that instance, you have committed state sanctioned murder so long as very specific
requirements are met. Was the murder just? Did you have the right to take someones life? Who are you to play judge jury and executioner? See what
I'm getting at? The moral judgement has no bearing on the objective ethics.

Personally, I'm pro abortion, pro death penalty, pro castle doctrine. I try to keep my standards in line with one another.

I think Marlon Brando's character in "Apocalypse Now" said it best.

"...because they could stand it, these were not monsters. These were men, trained cadres — these men who fought with their hearts, who had
families, who had children, who were filled with love — but they had the strength, the strength to do that... ... ...without passion, without
judgment. Without judgment! Because it's judgment that defeats us. "

life |līf|
noun ( pl. lives |līvz| )
1 the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and
continual change preceding death: the origins of life.
• living things and their activity: some sort of life existed on Mars | lower forms of life | the ice-cream vendors were the only signs of life.
• [ with adj. or noun modifier ] a particular type or aspect of people's existence: an experienced teacher will help you settle into school life |
revelations about his private life | his father decided to start a new life in California.
• vitality, vigor, or energy: she was beautiful and full of life.
2 the existence of an individual human being or animal: a disaster that claimed the lives of 266 Americans | she didn't want to die; she loved
life.
• a biography: a life of Shelley.
• either of the two states of a person's existence separated by death (as in Christianity and some other religious traditions): too much happiness
in this life could reduce the chances of salvation in the next.
• any of a number of successive existences in which a soul is held to be reincarnated (as in Hinduism and some other religious traditions).
• a chance to live after narrowly escaping death (esp. with reference to the nine lives traditionally attributed to cats).
3 (usu. one's life) the period between the birth and death of a living thing, esp. a human being: she has lived all her life in the country | I want
to be with you for the rest of my life | they became friends for life .
• the period during which something inanimate or abstract continues to exist, function, or be valid: underlay helps to prolong the life of a
carpet.
• informal a sentence of imprisonment for life.
4 (in art) the depiction of a subject from a real model, rather than from an artist's imagination: the pose and clothing were sketched from life | [
as modifier ] : life drawing. See also still life.

Everyone who is alive is "pro-life".

As far as a fetus being a living individual, that is debatable. Until the umbilical cord is cut, the mother and the fetus are one.

In simple terms, ideas, held collectively in human minds can become more important than the single human. Humans would kill or die for the sake of the
collective idea. There are a relatively small set of memes which have attained this status.

I agree with you that fundamental human rights are beyond the state and therefore societal system. That's why the US constitution is such a good one.
As an agreement between the state and the people on how the state ought to act with regards to the people under threat of dismantlement or having its
authority ignored, the US constitution is a great one in that it recognizes that human rights exist beyond the scope of the state. My point was that
law is expressly the purpose of the state. The system by which those in the society agree to live by either through actively pursuing the
legislation, or accepting it. Law is what decides whether or not a criminal gets put to death, law decides whether or not an abortion is sanctioned.
In that regard, moral judgement abrogates the objectivity of law.

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