For those who want a better look at each character and shot from this trailer, Ours is the Fury is screen capping the hell out of this thing over on our Tumblr.

Winter Is Coming: In a word, simply amazing. HBO has really upped their trailer game this season. Although it didn’t show as much as I had hoped, it was very, very well done and what it did show was so cinematic and epic. The wait till April 1st just got a lot longer.

Oh hell, they went there with Sansa, huh? Bold choice, HBO. Now I just want to hug Sophie, and her Mom.

In other news, that was a seriously kick ass trailer. :D It looks gorgeous, and I love how much of the book dialogue made it’s way into the show. I’m not really a purist, but it’s so great to see how much the show runners respect the material. Is it April yet?

ahhh too short! still amazing. couple things I noticed, Catelyn holding a knife to littlefinger, unless im mistaken the two dont interact in the book. Watching everyone kneel in front of the burning seven while Davos stands defiant, that was epic imo. And how cool was Arya when she said”Anyone can be killed” I really think Im gonna like the way they portray Arya’s story line and really show how vengeful and lets face it a little crazy she can be.

So much awesome:
– A shot of Mel giving birth
– The burning of the Seven
– A quick shot of Brienne going berzerk in the tent
– Yoren swinging at some Lannister soldier
– Gorgeous Icelandinc landscape
– Theon receiving a blessing
– Margaery in front of Renly

Is this really Melissandre giving birth? (just after the brief shot of Brienne swinging her sword) … she seems to be having some pleasure and being topless… so she would be having sex? with Stannis? Never bought that theory too much just from the books, but that would be interesting if Benioff, Weiss & GRRM went there for the show!

Also Margaery seems pretty forthcoming to Renly too… not buying that virgin pretend from AFFC too much now ^^

It didn’t show much! Also judging from this trailer, this season looks very Tyrion-centric, and even though I know Tyrion is the most popular character of the series, I don’t like the idea of him standing out…

Melissandre looks beautiful. Great narrating by Varys, loyal to the parallel in the book. Very fitting music.

At 54-55 secs it’s defnately Blackwater: it’s night, it’s by the walls and there’s some fire in the background. At 56 it’s Brienne in the tent fending off people right after Renly meets his fate. At 57 it’s Melissandre (note the ruby) either giving birth to the shadow or having sex with Stannis in order to do so.

The scene with Catelyn and Littlefinger is an added one, right? They must have made their time in the Tyrell camp overlap a bit.

-It’s dark, but the opening shot gives an idea of what Dragonstone will look like.
-You can see Xaro in the shot out in front of the gates of Qarth.
-Now we know what that fight of the Hound on the ramparts is from, Joffrey’s name day tourney.

Is this really Melissandre giving birth? (just after the brief shot of Brienne swinging her sword) … she seems to be having some pleasure and being topless… so she would be having sex? with Stannis? Never bought that theory too much just from the books, but that would be interesting if Benioff, Weiss & GRRM went there for the show!

Well, in ADWD Melisandre states that it’s been lonely in her bed since Stannis left. So it’s pretty strongly hinted.

Is this really Melissandre giving birth? (just after the brief shot of Brienne swinging her sword) … she seems to be having some pleasure and being topless… so she would be having sex? with Stannis? Never bought that theory too much just from the books, but that would be interesting if Benioff, Weiss & GRRM went there for the show!

Also Margaery seems pretty forthcoming to Renly too… not buying that virgin pretend from AFFC too much now ^^

Almost certain that this is from the rumored scene of Mel and Stannis having sex on the Painted Table. The shot looks very similar to what I described in my speculative episode two script (*pats self on back*).

As they have sex, the camera zooms into Melisandre’s face, awash with pleasure and power, the ruby at her throat glowing brightly.

I wonder, is the woman kneeling with the others at 0:24 Selyse or Melisandre? She looks a bit different than Melisandre at 00:4, plus at 0:23 it looks like Melisandre is escorting Stannis closer to the burning gods.

This show is good enough that I’m already worried about it ending some day.Let’s hope that’s a very long time away!

GRRM still has to finish the books! I’m more worried that the series is going catch up with him than the show being cancelled. Hopefully, HBO learned their lessons on not cancelling great shows i.e. Deadwood.

Some bad news guys. We lost best ensemble to boardwalk empire at the SAG awards.

I don’t consider that bad news, I rather Game of Thrones win it, but I’m not too sad as Boardwalk Empire was really good this season, way better than first season, imo. If Dexter would be the one that won it, then I would have shat myself.

Virtus: Well, in ADWD Melisandre states that it’s been lonely in her bed since Stannis left. So it’s pretty strongly hinted.

I’ve actually been taking my time with ADWD to fill in the time before S2… so I haven’t read that yet ;) But I knew it was a popular theory among fans, I just always thought it wasn’t very “Stannis-esque”.

Renly and Margaery? Good luck with that, dear. BTW, say “goodbye” to your pure, doe-eyed maiden image…
Catelyn and Petyr. Didn’t expect it and I don’t know if I like it: IIRC, Catelyn didn’t know it was him who betrayed her husband, or am I wrong?

Not good for me:

0:26 OMG is that a CGI direwolf??? Nah, it’s a horse… duh -_- *needs to sleep*

Ser Jean-Ralphio: I’ve actually been taking my time with ADWD to fill in the time before S2… so I haven’t read that yet ;) But I knew it was a popular theory among fans, I just always thought it wasn’t very “Stannis-esque”.

Virtus:
I wonder, is the woman kneeling with the others at 0:24 Selyse or Melisandre? She looks a bit different than Melisandre at 00:4, plus at 0:23 it looks like Melisandre is escorting Stannis closer to the burning gods.

I guess that would be Selyse. I’m wondering who is the old guy standing with her is… Ser Axell Florent perhaps?

The first two times I watched it, I thought the sellsword was Bronn too, but it isn’t – it’s Sandor. He isn’t truly a sellsword – the Clegane’s are a landed house sworn to Lannister – but the point about who do you serve and why seems relevant, even if the choice to serve the Lannisters might have something to do with the rain.

I had the impression that Stannis effectively had gaps in his memory in relation to Melisandre – either some sort of strong denial where he’s blocking stuff internally, or part of Melisandre’s magic/glamor blurs what Stannis is aware of at times.

Hence his “fathering” of black babies is probably not something he is consciously aware of, and so his rigid moral code can’t kick in.

Haven’t posted in a while, one word is all I can speak atm, OMG! one of the best trailers I have ever scene, period. Great job HBO!
By the way, that scene with Jon looking out toward that flat top mountain in the far distance. Could be he is watching the Battle of the Fist of the First Men? The forward shot shows he is alone, and I see a cold mist rolling over that possible FotFM. Which to me is badass and plausible that a freezing cold rolling mist precedes and/or travels with the White Walkers.
Yummy, Mel, Cersei, Cat and Marg.

Virtus:
I wonder, is the woman kneeling with the others at 0:24 Selyse or Melisandre? She looks a bit different than Melisandre at 00:4, plus at 0:23 it looks like Melisandre is escorting Stannis closer to the burning gods.

It sure seems to be Selyse, since at 0.23 we see Stannis walking to fulfill the profecy, Mel is escorting him a few steps behind, and in the right edge of the screen we see the woman with the fluffy hair, who is then kneeling at 0:24 (near her are Cressen and Davos). The show creators probably didn’t give Selyse too big of a role in this season, so that would explain why she hasn’t been announced. In a similar way Tommen was in one or two scenes on season 1, but had no lines.

Aha. Sandor certainly fits the metaphor, being someone who has followed this illusion of power–perfectly personified by the ridiculous Joffrey–his whole life. I hope they really draw out that part of Sandor’s character leading up to his “epiphany” at Blackwater.

Wow….it looks like they are definitely *not* going to shy away from King Joffrey’s near-rape of Sansa in front of the entire courtroom. I didn’t know if they’d be able to show that on TV, what with how underaged actress laws work in the United Kingdom.

The Dragon Demands: Wow….it looks like they are definitely *not* going to shy away from King Joffrey’s near-rape of Sansa in front of the entire courtroom. I didn’t know if they’d be able to show that on TV, what with how underaged actress laws work in the United Kingdom.

Never thought we’d get the horror that was Robin’s breastfeeding in season 1, but lo and behold it happened. They probably shot the Sansa scene in a way where it is implied, but not actually fully shown.

As a reader, I have been worried that season 2 may feel a bit flat after the climatic events of book 1; however, just the epic, cinematic look and the drama conveyed in the trailer seem to relieve my fears that season 2 may be as awesome as I dearly hope!

That was pretty awesome! I wasn’t a huge fan of the music, but everything else looked really, really good.

I only watched it twice, and strangely, I don’t feel an urge to watch it again (or look at any screen caps). It’s only two months away, I don’t mind waiting. I guess my formerly insatiable appetite for previews is less this time around.

Good morning, world!
I’m mightily pleased!
Waking up to this definitely made a good start for this Monday. So much awesomeness!
The “fire and blood” line sent shivers down my spine, and I’m very happy to see that they’ve used “the king, the priest and the rich man”. Whohoo!

Soooooo much stuffed into this trailer! Truly awesome! That scene with LF and CS should be interesting, knowing that is a product of the show creators… Most exciting things for me are seeing Jon’s, Robb’s, Tyrion’s, and Jaime’s scenes brought to life from the books!

WOW.. well done!!!! The music was like a ticking time bomb.. eery.. dramatic.. the scenery is gorgeous!!

I totally felt Sansa’s torment.. Joffrey is gonna be a total bitch this season. I can’t stand him!! Kudos to Gleeson for bringing that character to life.. as much as I want to punch him. lol

Arya and Needle.. :) ..love the hair. She is soooo gonna kick some ass.. and Gendry is gonna toy with my emotions. I hope Gendry evolves throughout the story and becomes what I’m hoping he’ll become.I totally want a Baratheon/Stark match in the distant future… cuz it would be way creepy right now.

I love how Varys is narrating the trailer.. helps those who might have missed the first season catch up. Tyrion is going to give us another AMAZING performance this year. I can feel it in my bones.

Congratulations ARE in order for our favorite series as Game of Thrones won the SAG Award for:“Outstanding Performance By A Stunt Ensemble In A Television Series” as seen on any site reporting the award results. (Sorry. I fumbled the link insert.)
We wouldn’t be familiar with the winners, but any award for our show is terrific!!
At the beginning of the televised awards there was a great shot of Jason Momoa seated next to his wife Lisa Benet. So good to see him! Hope D&D can find a place for him again.
It’s been a fine night for us GoT fanatics!!

Now that I have watched it like 100x and had a good breakfast to settle my nerves I come to think of the dramatic and emotional potential of that Catelyn LF scene…. we (the watchers) know that LF is partly responsible for the death of her husband so how tormenting would it be to see LF buttering her up so she forgives him and they part as good ole’ friends? It would certainly freak me out!

You’re right. Catelyn never knew about Littlefinger’s betrayal in the books to my knowledge. I’m curious as to why LF is in Renly’s camp at the same time as Catelyn. The only reason he shows up to the Tyrells in the books is because Renly is dead, and here that’s obviously not the case, or Cat wouldn’t be there. Definitely a departure from teh book, but I’ll see where it goes and it’s good that they’re giving Catelyn more to do.

Yeh… but in the series, he told her, he would help him. Or something like that. Obviously she knows something went wrong, and she could blame LF just because of that. We all know Cat is not the very rational, when it comes to family… :D

Why is it that Bran’s always forgotten? He’s my favourite character and I wish he was in the trailer. I will be very disappointed if he isn’t featured a lot in the show, too.
Might I add, though it isn’t in the books, the scene with Cat and Littlefinger gave me chills for those few seconds. Feeling a bit sorry for LF there.
And Arya…
…CHILLS!

Great choice of narration, well done. The rest of the soundbites are really good as well, a wonderful first trailer. I’m pretty sure there will be another one of 2 minutes coming in a month or so :) we’ll see what they do. Less need to introduce the story this time around. Posters next?

In the Books LF leave KL for a Meeting in Bitterbridge after Renlys Death to convince the Tyrells for King Joffrey, because they don’t declare for King Stannis
I think in the series they warp the story a little bit, and LF travel to Renly for an arrangement and use the chance after Renlys Death to talk with Margaery an forge the Lannister-Tyrell alliance. So Cat and LF meet both in Renlys Camp.
A Problem with this idea is: When will LF and Tyrion play against each other (The Myrcella Plot)? In my idea LF must leave King’s Landing in a early episode, but I think it’s not impossible when the Renly stuff is in ep 4 or 5.

btw. Cat and LF = I am abosolutely sure that these are 2 different scenes not one..
Cat – probably in Renly s tent after certain event.

I thought that at first, but if you look closely it is the same dagger in both scenes, and the arm that holds it has clothing with similar color and shape. It also happens in the same tent. One difference is that the hand has a lower grip in one scene than the other, but those kind of mistakes happen all the time in film making.

No, I think Brienne is the one that starts at 0:57. Lol… those parts are so short, that seconds are really a unit, not small enough. :D
EDIT: hm… actually u might be right. The one that starts at 0:55(not 0:56, like i said before) could also be Brienne, ye. Still not sure, though.
EDIT1: I thought it was Arstan, because “it” was wearing some kind of robe.

Ah :) Well out of the three scenes you could possibly refer to, I think the one in the tent is Brienne or Loras, but probably Brienne. Is wearing armor and a cloak, not a robe.. The one between the two knights is Brienne and somebody at the melee at Bitterbridge (may no longer be at Bitterbridge), and the one with the Lannister guard is Yoren.

I’m staying strong and am not gonna watch it!!! Only two months to go till season 2 starts and I don’t want to look at the first half of the series thinking ‘but I’ve seen all of this already’, like was the case last year.

Yes, call me stupid, but I am proud of myself! :-)

[edit: ok, admittedly I clicked on the YT link, but only to see how long it was – I remain strong! For now…]

So Cat, fleeing Renly’s death, runs into LF (who is on his way to the Tyrells) at an inn, has him arrested by the locals for complicity in her husband’s death and then whisks him off to the Eyrie for a trial by combat. Deja vu all over again :D

Personally I‘prefer this “short teasers”. I don’t want see too much of the act, because than seeing this scenes in the series is not soo exiting. But in the teasers we have our loved (or hated) characters, some spoken words and a few pictures or footage of the new designs and costumes.
I hope they keep the style of ‘Cold Winds’ and ‘Shadow’ for all other teasers I’m really enjoying the ‘focusing’ of one King per teaser (Cold Winds – King Stannis, Shadow – King’s Landing Characters with King Joffrey).

For the longest time I thought it was Rodrick who was standing tall with Davos at 0:24 and I kept wondering what he was doing at Dragonstone. Cressen makes more sense :)

Awesome as usual. Hope Tyrion walks into the throne room soon after Trant (?) strips Sansa so that we won’t have to see too much of it. That scene was horrible to read and I think it will be worse to see.

Cristian Far Arnedo: I wonder if the woman saying “you’re fighting to overthrow a king” is the “new Jayne”. The voice over apperars along a shot of Robb. Does anyone remember that line from the book?

I think that voice belong Jayne. In CotK there was no comment like that, but in book there was no Jayne either. “Your fighting overthrove the king.” comment sound good, because Jayne is Lannister Supporter in beginning, and she will question Robb’s purpose.

I’ve watched it with youtube’s auto transcribe subtitles on – and I think it’s a good candidate for a Saturday’s GoT laughs post (punctuation added):

Three, great man –
Vicki, Militaries
and Direction.
Between the newsstands, a condom sales order –
each grade mandates this. Elsewhere killed the other two
videos. Her guys
resides with men
to share.
Shattering
the
parents – mourn the karst
today, captain.

This was way better than I was imagining. At first I didn’t recognize Varys’ voice or his quote, until he got to “each great man bids the sellsword kill the other two.” Everything from the choice of quotes to that music and the steady build was perfect.

My favorite parts would have to be:
-Melisandre— her look is so different from what I pictured, but I love how she has a sort of “Carrie’s mother” look to her: that wild, messy red hair makes her look a bit crazy and scary. Perfecto!
-Sansa’s scenes. Damn, if she didn’t win people’s sympathy in episode 10 of season 1, there’s no way people won’t feel sorry for the poor girl this season. I got chills in the scene where Joffrey has her stripped and I got a little teary eyed when he points his crossbow at her.
-Quick shot of Jon Snow—despite looking completely distraught, he looks so handsome. His is my favorite storyline, and it gets really good this season.^^
-Theon getting baptized
-Arya saying “anyone can be killed”
-“even a small man can cast a large shadow”

But checking the vid’s length on YT should have told you that you really wouldn’t be spoiling much of anything. It gave me – a true spoiler-phobic – what I wanted: some imagery and a theme, like Jaime’s whispered promise to Cersei in one of last Season’s teasers, but no extended looks at plot or characters or dialogue. It was a tantalizing rush, but leaves everything wide open, as far as I can see.

I am so absolutely thrilled by everything coming out for Season 2. Everything just looks so well done. I loved this trailer, especially because it gave us glimpses of some really key scenes: the burning, the Baratheon parley gone wrong (at least I think that’s what I saw), Sansa’s abuse by Joffrey, Theon’s return to Pyke. Watching these things unfold on screen just brings back so many memories and emotions I had while reading A Clash of Kings.

And on a broader sense, I loved how they used Varys’ parable on multiple levels: to demonstrate the relationship between him and Tyrion in this season, and to also pretty much sum up the main theme of ACOK. Brilliant. And God, Conleth Hill is so perfect as Varys.

There’s just one thing still missing that I desperately need to see. Jaqen H’Ghar!

I think Danys line doesn’t carry through. It’s not bad and I think it works in the show, but with this much overflowing epicness and grandness in trailer, the self-doubting cry from wannabe princess in trouble just doesn’t feel as good as it could. Especially when it’s put into mix of bit cheesy lines that are taken from their context. As such the trailer doesn’t seem to have any kind of dramatic curve. It feels more like bunch of shots that have been picked and put together because of how epic they are. Only thing connecting them is Varys talking riddles.

Ofcourse it serves well to show people lots of their own favourites and that they are coming and give little nice tidbits of information to hardcore fans, but as a whole big picture it really isn’t what I expected. It’s common problem with trailers and maybe I was expecting too much after that Stannis-teaser.

Also, Joffrey holds and aims that crossbow like a little girl. Though that could be intented…

What’s in front of Robb at 0:26? First I thought it was a kneeling person, but I managed to freeze the frame and it doesn’t look that human, unless it’s just the grain of the image playing tricks. Horse? CGI D… nah, couldn’t be.

Also, in the scene where you glimpse Pyat Pree is that also Quaithe, centre back green robes, head bowed so it’s not too clear whether it’s someone’s face or a mask?

Wow! Can I take more Dany bashing in one morning?? Clarke is trying her very best. True, she’s not perfect. But what is? (I mean, what is perfect besides the other cast members of Game of Thrones?) Lower your expectations a few notches and you’ll be fine, trust me.

Wow! Can I take more Dany bashing in one morning?? Clarke is trying her very best. True, she’s not perfect. But what is? (I mean, what is perfect besides the other cast members of Game of Thrones?) Lower your expectations a few notches and you’ll be fine, trust me.

Sorry, but I never fully understand the hard critics again Emilia Clarke. In my eyes, Daenerys is still a folly child (13 in the Books), so that all the Things and proud Speeches see does must look a little bit ‘wannabe princess’, because that is, what see is. A foreign girl in a country of strong or rich leaders (instead of blood chosen) hundreds of miles afar from a country see don’t even remember but see want to rule. And only her Husband or later Dragons give her a reason to hold on her claim.
Yes I also like her ‘cow eyes’ because a young, native Daenerys should not look like a ‘perfect, experienced’ Warrior Princess.

You kind of missed my point there. Like I said I think it works in the show but in the midst of carefully picked trailer of manly-heroic-epic-cheesylines, a frail desperate unsure cry for help really stands out. Exactly like No-One said. I’m not criticising Emilia but this trailer.

And for future. No. I’m not going to lower my expectations. That would be pure insult towards everyone making the series. I will give criticism. That’s how thing get better and you really should get used to it.

Pretty awesome trailer. The shot of Robb with the shifting focus between the horse and him was especially cool (and yes, I also had to look and stop the trailer twice to find out it was definately a horse and not a wolf).

Damn, I completely forgot about Jaqen. If he looks how he is described in the books then he’s going to be an iconic figure this series.

The Sansa scene is going to be pretty distressing but it couldn’t really be excluded given its place in the narrative of both Joffrey and Sansa. But my feeling is that the snippet we’ve seen there is about as far as it will go. I’m guessing that a fraction of a second later Tyrion walks in and puts an end to it.

I see the trailer’s already near 800,000 hits on YouTube. Crazy. Can it get to a million within 24 hours?

Also, OT but interesting to note from this NY Times article – it seems Thrones has now overtaken Boardwalk Empire as HBO’s second-most watched show. Though that probably reflects the decline in BE’s viewership more than the increase in GoT’s.

Yes, I think a ripped dress shoulder is the extent of what we will see.

I think it’s Jeyne (Oona Chaplin) doing the voiceover bit in the trailer when we see Robb, the comment about “fighting to overthrow a king.” Other people on tumblr think so too. It does sound like her.

rorschach-: And for future. No. I’m not going to lower my expectations. That would be pure insult towards everyone making the series. I will give criticism. That’s how thing get better and you really should get used to it.

Are you sure? Protesting is for the idealist! Protesting a perfectly perfect and awesome 2 minute bit does seem idealist! I hope you do change the world for the better even though there would seem easier things to improve besides excellent trailers!

I’d say my expectations were probably caused by the Stannis teaser. It also showed lots of different characters, but didn’t splinter them into all of their own parts. It flowed with Stannis talking about his rivals and his right to the throne. It didn’t have many different highs second after second, but steady rise until the hornblasts in the end made shivers go through my spine. Also the theme revolving around Dillanes voice was brilliant. Ofcourse it got criticism for not showing and voicing everybodys own favourite characters, but as we see in this trailer, it’s really not even that good idea. I was so hoping “Kings Trailers” where this one would have been maybe from Robbs viewpoint and next one maybe from Joffrey and so on. Now it’s just mishmash of different lines and character that doesn’t really even make me vibrate.

I’m not protesting anything. I liked it and it’s good that you did too. I only gave criticism to it because there was some points in there that I didn’t like and ofcourse if something I like and am fan to it, I want it to be perfect. But in no way something that I like and am fan is automaticly perfecly perfect.

And seriously man. I’m not trying to cure cancer here or anything. I said that I didn’t like some points in a trailer and now I’m chancing the world better place?

Ours is the Fury:
I don’t think we’re going to really see Jaqen H’ghar full-on until the actual show. He’s supposed to be mysterious, I just can’t imagine them overplaying that hand. I could be wrong, though.

This is my thought too. HBO knows not to play all its cards at once. But that still doesn’t do anything to abate my desire to see him!

HouseLark:
Damn, I completely forgot about Jaqen. If he looks how he is described in the books then he’s going to be an iconic figure this series.

The Sansa scene is going to be pretty distressing but it couldn’t really be excluded given its place in the narrative of both Joffrey and Sansa. But my feeling is that the snippet we’ve seen there is about as far as it will go. I’m guessing that a fraction of a second later Tyrion walks in and puts an end to it.

I agree that this scene is terribly important. It really instills the audience with (a deeper) hatred for Joffrey, sympathy for Sansa, and respect for Tyrion. It’s going to be hard to watch, but I do hope this scene makes everyone really uncomfortable.

And apparently there are a lot of people on tumblr capping the gown-ripping scene and saying things like “she got what she deserved.” HOW? I don’t understand it! There is something seriously wrong with our society if people actually believe this. Although I don’t agree with their views, I understand why people dislike Sansa as a character. But how anyone who can read/watch this scene and not have sympathy for her is beyond comprehension for me. :(

rorschach-: I said that I didn’t like some points in a trailer and now I’m chancing the world better place?

Seriously… isn’t that a tiny bit arrogant, though?, thinking this would make the show improve?

Anyway, I’m glad you did like the trailer, it’s a huge relief. As for myself, I have lowered my expectations a bar or two and now I am hugely excited for season 2. I expect that I will not be disappointed, because I don’t like being disappointed. I feel this trailer has helped me prepare for not being disappointed. Especially by purposely avoiding to show direwolves and dragons, and by quoting unintriguing one liners.

I know it’s hard to imagine for people like us but there really ARE the sort of hardcore-nerd-creeps out there, sitting in their basements watching porn and playing world of warcraft all day. Just like in all those “funny” memes ;)
And yes they ARE sick. Even more sick than our sick society!
Sad but true.

I know it’s hard to imagine for people like us but there really ARE the sort of hardcore-nerd-creeps out there, sitting in their basements watching porn and playing world of warcraft all day. Just like in all those “funny” memes ;)
And yes they ARE sick. Even more sick than our sick society!
Sad but true.

What’s warcraft all day? Could it be… Satan?

Does anyone care to share the links that show ‘she deserves it’? Or is it just one guy who is posting it? Because I don’t care enough to search. We can’t all be rabbits. Once I see the link I will waste 20 minutes of my life to post an angry post at that person’s sites.

I watched it a couple times. Didn’t catch everything. Still not sure about 3 powerful men… King, priest….., then showing Melly as the priest ? Still bad visuals with dark shots where you can’t see much.

Dany: whether she is 13 or 17, the young innocent demeanor is wrong – even if GRRM wrote her that way. She maybe royal/noble but she lives in a time when kids become adults and I bet very little of real life is hidden from them. Add to that she is poor, hunted and homeless growing up, and she would be more like a street kid today, a tough, mean, rat, what Arrya has to become, not some cow-eyed innocent.

Theon looks like he is about to give someone a blowjob.

Still can’t see any of the stuff under the spoiler tags, no way to de-cloak on my iPod .

Ren Snow: Yep Cressen dies prior to the Burning of the Seven and the man’s clothing don’t look much “Maester-like”

Take a look here: http://twitpic.com/8dnjc9 Click the pic to magnify it. It does look like maester’s robes to me- it has the bulky cowl that Maester Luwin’s clothes had. The profile also looks like Oliver Ford Davies’ to me, though I am not 100% certain, by any means. I would guess that they show the Burning of the Seven first, and then this shocking burning is Cressen’s motivation for deciding to go against Melisandre.

FicusFan: Dany: whether she is 13 or 17, the young innocent demeanor is wrong – even if GRRM wrote her that way. She maybe royal/noble but she lives in a time when kids become adults and I bet very little of real life is hidden from them. Add to that she is poor, hunted and homeless growing up, and she would be more like a street kid today, a tough, mean, rat, what Arrya has to become, not some cow-eyed innocent.

If GRRM wrote her that way, it is not “wrong.” That is the character he created. You’re projecting your own ideas onto Daenerys, but that is not the character in the books or on the show. And though Dany was orphaned, she was very much protected.

FicusFan: Still can’t see any of the stuff under the spoiler tags, no way to de-cloak on my iPod .

I’m working on a fix for that, although it is difficult since I don’t have an iOS device. In the meantime, a work around is to copy and paste the text into another application or quote the post and the text will be revealed in the comment box.

FicusFan,
I recommend you to reread the first Dany PoV in ‚A Game of Thrones‘. Daenerys don’t grow up ‘on street’ first she was guest of Willem Darry later she and her brother travel in the free cities and were guest of different rich people and at last in Illyrios palest. Also they sell the Targaryen Crown and had a little bit money to survive.

You’re right see had a strange grow-up, but see wasn’t a lonely helpless street kid. And her Brother teaches her. Make her ‘queenly’.

Daenarys is also unsure about Robert Baratheons Assassins are real or a paranoia of Viserys. Sure they were spies, but when they were every day in danger to be assassinate, the Robert-Ned Conflict will not so happened like it happened.

How so? If none gives any criticism ever how people know it wasn’t satisfying? What else you want me to do? I am a fan and I want it to be the best show ever. I will do everything in my grasp to make it like that. At the moment, writing into forums and making people think is all I can do. Going “omg omg omg I liek this show soooooo much” when I actually think there was something to improve is in no known universe the right thing to do. It might help me to supress my fanboyish emotions to cry, but I have learned that one gets with much less hardship just by admitting truth, saying it out aloud and moving on :D

And yeah. I would have given my left testicle to see some CG direwolf. In good and in bad.

Ah, I read one sentence in the opposite way than what you intended. That the Stannis trailer was bad, rather than good.

I think teasers and trailers have different purposes though and I think that explains the different scopes of the two we’ve seen. A teaser is just to give a little something to remind us that it’s there. A trailer is meant to show what the product contains.

As an aside I should thank you–this conversation has helped me to realize that I dislike the word ‘show’ when it refers to a television programme, and that I have disliked it for some time now. I had no idea. But now that I see it, thanks to this miniature epiphany (or as I like to call them, miniphany) it has unveiled some personal problems I have been examining to resolve of late.

Dany doesn’t go into detail of her life but she is basically a rat with some polish – so she can pass as noble. The only protection is to make sure she isn’t used sexually because that would decrease her value.

She did have safe places, but they didn’t last, she had to move from place to place, when the money and the goodwill ran out. There would have been times on the run, even if it’s only from Visery’s paranoid imagination. They would have attracted all kinds of low life losers who wanted a piece of them (money, glory, power). Many who were disgruntled and had an axe to grind with Targs or nobles. Just like pimps jump on runaway kids. They had enough help to survive, but neither of them would innocent.

Its probably why Dany is so blah in the books – even before the last 2 books. Half of what makes her who she is never makes it into the books, it’s in the cracks between the fancy part of her life.

Could be my english too. Not a native speaker but I still try to use sometimes really complicated words :)

I agree on the teaser-trailer differences. They are different. But I think both should still provide us with cold shiver down the spine. And trailer didn’t make it for me as much as teaser did so I’m trying to find reasons why it didn’t so. Some of them might be because of the difference in trailer-teaser.

I’m glad to help you, I think I have learned something too. Sometimes we all should just chill and think. But you must know the feeling when you are “a fan” and sometimes you just want to be “the fan”.

And for you. I never say show again. Though I don’t like “series” either so I’m kind of at loss what to call it now.

Thanks. A fix would be great. Quoting doesn’t help. I only have about a 2 inch box to use to type comments, the pasted quote takes more space and there is no way to scroll down to see it. I only get to see the HtMl at the top. I can try to paste it into notes only thing that takes text, but I have to leave app, and open another, and cut/paste at both. A lot of work when lots of posts have them.

No I am not just projecting my ideas about Dany, it’s what happens to kids when their world is destroyed. They lost their home-family-place in the world. Just as GRRM used the middle ages as a base for his story, he also uses human nature. They had to move/run, their lives would have been up and down, and their downs would have been horrifying to life threatening.

KG:
It’s a tv show. I’m sorry if that term isn’t epic enough for your tiny brains, but oh well.

“Oh well” as in you don’t care or….? I hope you do care. It’s just that ‘show’ sounds so american, and forgive me but US culture is so watered down, pedestrian, and afraid of everything fun (like random sexual encounters with complete strangers of mysterious genders). So… yes, maybe if you could find it in your big, warm heart to be a pal and help me out here by not saying the word show anymore. Thanks pal. PS Keep up the piano? You may have to show this Zack Hemsey up on youtube! (looking forward to it).

Omigarsh, this reminds me of something totally new to the series!
One of the most delightful changes between the book and season 1 was the extraordinary interplay between Varys and Littlefinger, two ostensibly minor players in the game of thrones but potential grand masters at it. Their sparring was one of those marvelous treats that was never in the book but made perfect sense in the series.
Up till now, they’ve dealt with King Robert: dumb obtuse drunk, Ned Stark: blindly honorable obtuse good guy and John Arryn: wise but apparently in over his head too. …and each other.
Now enter Tyrion, with all his smarts, will, and the combined muscle of The Hand and his hoary mountain clan buddies. We know what happened in the books but I can just imagine a whole new treat of nasty brilliant interplay.
Given what we’ve experienced of the writing so far, consider the possibility.
Tyrion: “Planning a party Varys? I hear you’re the one to talk to about BALLS.”
Varys: “Yes Mr. Imp, but the budget will bring you up SHORT.”

There are not just Kids whos world got destroyed. They are royalty. Every time they went to a new city they go straight to the ruler of said city and then find some patron who offers guest rights, cause he want something from them or just casue it help ala “oh i have royals as my guest”. The losers, thugs & so never have a chance to even talk to them.
jalabhar xho uses this system of diplomatic protection too.

on-topic:
where is bran?
Also i guess a teaser cant possible show all the new characters.
The Margaery/Rently scene is interesting, but maybe the full scene doesnt show much more? Margaery storyline is interesting, she was school by her grandmother so she is not innocent, virginal maybe but not innocent.

I’ve replayed this so many times that Varys’ quote and the piano chords have been in my head all…day. But so worth it! Great trailer, HBO! I’m not a hard core Targ fan but Dany delivered that Fire and Blood line so well I got the chills. Jon looking gorgeous (what’s new there?). Mel looks absolutely enchanting. And it is going to be the Year of the Dinklage! Tyrion’s arc is going to be so great in this season, in the hands of Peter Dinklage, we are in for a treat.
As for the LF and Cat scene: I like it. In the books, these two don’t interact again for the rest of the series after about a quarter of the way into AGOT. No, she doesn’t know he betrayed Ned, but if I were her, I’d be both pissed and suspicious: you ask a man as clever and crafty and clued up as LF to help your husband and then your husband loses a head? And then you run into said man running errands for said husband’s killers? I’d wave a knife in his face. Also, she may have begun to suspect it wasn’t Tyrion who sent the man to kill Bran, and that LF had lied to her…I think it’s a great addition because there is so much going on with LF that is all to do with Cat – it would make more sense for the audience to see them together at least one more time.

Nothing they could do to Sansa would be enough for her to pay for her crime.

She betrayed her family and not only caused a death, but left her family with no protector, so she is also responsible for all the subsequent deaths.

You can make excuses about her being young but none of the other children did it. Bad times don’t create character, they expose it. She is spoiled, selfish and willing to have others suffer and die for her petty wants. She is more like Joffrey than how the Starks behave. But she is a Stark, and young, and pretty and vulnerable so she some give her a pass.

Some things can never be forgiven.

That said, it is easier to hate her in the books. In the show its a real person who is being punished and suffering which will be tough to watch. I also like the actress, Sophie. the best thing in both would be for her to die.

But I suspect GRRM is playing with us. He created Joffrey who is young and evil and we hate him. Sansa is young and supposed to be good but commits evil. Some hate her and some excuse her. LF is probably going to teach her to be like him, and she will be lauded when she learns to own her evil acts and turn them on the enemies of the Starks.

Tyrion: May I park my whores in your womens stables for sunday night visits only?
LF: But of course my lord. It’s already done.
Tyrion: Quite, quite. So, they call you little finger, the master of coitus or coin?
LF: Ah, ah, t’is takes a big hand for a little king. If the shoe fits.
Tyrion: I trust we’ll get along splendidly, I’m sure.
LF: As long as u trust me.
Tyrion: I know how to play teh game, foo.
LF: And I’m not afraid of gash.
Varys: I’m shiny..

on topic:
Back home form the office I rewatched the trailer a couple of times and all the screencaps.And I have to agree that LF/Cat scene is probably not editet. She really pointed a dagger at him. Wondering why.
Could it be just an impulsive reaction to meet him for the first time after he promised to keep her husband alive.
I do not think so that the producers went with LF complete relevation at this point in the story. It would be too early and would ruin a lot of dynamics of story itself, IMO.

I totaly loved this!
By any chance, does any of you know the music? Is it an actual song, or do you think it is part of the future soundtrack? If yes, I’m soooo loving it already! That is what especialy makes the trailer so awesome!

I may have just noticed something: look at 0:25. It’s a shot of the burning gods, with Stannis and Melisandre standing in front of them and the others about to kneel. Look what’s just in front of Stannis: some burning thing plunged in the ground. It could very well be (the assumed) Lightbringer.

Nothing they could do to Sansa would be enough for her to pay for her crime.

She betrayed her family and not only caused a death, but left her family with no protector, so she is also responsible for all the subsequent deaths.

You can make excuses about her being young but none of the other children did it. Bad times don’t create character, they expose it. She is spoiled, selfish and willing to have others suffer and die for her petty wants. She is more like Joffrey than how the Starks behave. But she is a Stark, and young, and pretty and vulnerable so she some give her a pass.

Some things can never be forgiven.

That said, it is easier to hate her in the books. In the show its a real person who is being punished and suffering which will be tough to watch. I also like the actress, Sophie. the best thing in both would be for her to die.

But I suspect GRRM is playing with us. He created Joffrey who is young and evil and we hate him. Sansa is young and supposed to be good but commits evil. Some hate her and some excuse her. LF is probably going to teach her to be like him, and she will be lauded when she learns to own her evil acts and turn them on the enemies of the Starks.

I don’t post here often, but I have to just say: WOW! In the span of but a few moments, many of the pivotal themes and characters in A Clash of Kings were captured. HBO looks like they’re going big this time and I am impressed. April cannot come soon enough.

I know I am probably the last person to comment this (been a lot busy), but I am so excited and thrilled! It looks amazing.
The actor that plays Varys, Conleth Hill, is FANTASTIC. I love hearing him saying the riddle and talking about power.
Robb Stark, he is truly one of the characters that the series explored so well. He is amazing.
Daenerys, “I will take what’s mine, with fire and blood!” Emilia Clarke is also an amazing actress.
Arya, I miss you….
Theon being “baptized”, looks cool.
Jaime in “custody”. I hope his role isn’t diminished a lot…
Joffrey with a crossbow! Yey, it made me want to kill him so baaaad. The young actor playing the role is very very talented. He can annoy me. xD
Melisandre giving birth (or having sex with Stannis, they have to put a sex scene between those xD).
Brienne, Sandor (LOVE the helmet) and Yoren in action! YES, finally Brienne in action!
Renly and Margaery, really? I don’t believe that Renly will like that meeting :P

I have a question (I see that many have asked it also). What is that scene with Catelyn pointing a “little sword” at Petyr? I don’t recall that from the books…

Yes, but they cancelled it because it was really expensive and the creator said that he wasn’t going to start explaining the main plot until season 6 or 7, too much time to keep people interested.

Actually, the creator said the series would be done in six seasons total – three “books”, two seasons per “book”. So we only got the first book of three total.

But you are right – it was cancelled because it was incredibly expensive – though all of that money certainly showed up onscreen. I love, love, LOVE Game of Thrones but I’d easily give it up for a chance for Carnivale to finish its story. While Season 2 had some issues, Season 1 is one of my all-time favourite seasons of any show.

Back to GoT though, this tease is great, especially in comparison to most TV teasers which usually feel slapped together. Can’t wait for the new season.

I tried Carnivale recently and after reading a lot of good reviews it was one of the biggest letdowns I have ever seen. Bad (bad) acting and boring as hell, I somehow managed to get to episode 8 and literally nothing happened since the first episode, no plotadvancement or characterdevelopment.

I’m not a native speaker either and I didn’t find your post hard to understand, I just read it very hastily and perhaps got it wrong since I expected the reference to the trailer to be negative, rather than positive (probably due to that criticism on the Internet is so often delivered in a one-sided manner, unlike yours).

But back to the topic. The trailer worked very well for me, although it had it’s strongest point in the beginning, while the teaser had it at the end. Still I almost prefer the trailer since it’s strong point had more substance to it, and I thought many shots complimented Varys’ speech very well. I do agree that the teaser worked a bit better as a standalone piece of art, although I do think that’s easier to do with a teaser.

Linked to that I really enjoyed the cinematography in some of those scenes, despite them being so short. That made my expectations on the technical quality of the show increase.

Knurk:
Pretty awesome trailer. The shot of Robb with the shifting focus between the horse and him was especially cool (and yes, I also had to look and stop the trailer twice to find out it was definately a horse and not a wolf).

Isn’t it funny how we see what we want/what we’re interested in when we watch these things? My reaction on first viewing was, look, a horse! Then: aww, why did they de-focus the nice horse and focus on some guy on his back? I was trying to focus on the horse again, and didn’t even notice it was Robb on his back. Had to watch it a second time to notice Robb.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I think the acting in Carnivale is great across the board with the exception of Clea Duvall.

It’s got a lot of atmosphere and a largely cinematic quality that Game of Thrones occasionally struggles to completely nail in its first season. Game of Thrones is great – and by that I mean it’s as good as anything out there on TV right now, alongside Breaking Bad but sometimes the show feels a little static, like we would be sitting in a location that didn’t matter simply for the sake of the dialogue, and the show occasionally overuses the shot-reverse-shot conversation templates that so much of TV relies on. The Wolf and the Lion, Baelor, and Fire and Blood are the only ones that truly got that feature scale down, and the fluidity and dynamism of cinema – not surprising now considering Brian Kirk and Alan Taylor both were sought out as candidates for the Thor sequel. The production values and cinematography in Carnivale are consistently some of the most impeccable ever put to the small-screen (Todd Field directed an ep(!) and he’s one of my favourite feature directors for In the Bedroom and Little Children) and I always feel transported to the 1930s in the same way Mad Men transports people to the 1960s. As great as Game of Thrones is, it doesn’t quite transport me fully into the world of Westeros – yet. And a director like Daniel Minahan both adds to the show (in excitement) but also diminishes it (while his eps were some of the best-loved here, they were also the most conventionally – aka uninventively – directed episodes of the season). I’m quite excited for this season because I heard Alan Taylor directs 4 episodes and he was without question, the best director in Season 1 in my opinion, but I’m also concerned because he and Kirk have both been sought out actively since then for big feature films (in other words, I’m worried he may not be back for Season 3).

I guess your willingness to go along with Carnivale depends on your exposure to (and love for) weird and slower films. I always saw it as a kind of apocalyptic, Lynchian folk-tale. I happen to like weird and experimental films (i.e. Enter the Void, Eraserhead, The Holy Mountain, etc) and I have infinite patience borne out from many a film class so to me, the pacing of Carnivale actually isn’t particularly slow in comparison but rather moody and measured.

In comparison to 99% of TV though, I guess the pacing of Carnivale is considered slow. I think you’re diminishing it a little by saying no plot/character development happens but I’m glad you at least gave it a try. I find it absorbing in a very epic way but it’s probably the most artsy/cult thing HBO has ever done and is not the kind of show that will appeal to mass amounts of people – which made its downfall inevitable in retrospect in correlation with its astronomical budget. I just wish they finished out the story of the show in some other form (say, graphic novel) so that there could be an ending.

That is harsh man. You have an iron resolve, unbending. wishing that a young girl deserves basically rape and death when there are so many others who brought about the terrible events to which she was a pawn. More proof of the subconscious misogynism in our society.

I agree that GoT had some major, major directional/cinematographic flaws that took me out of the story. And probably the cinematography in Carnivale was what kept me going for those 8 episodes, but the acting got so cringeworthy (Michael J. Anderson can’t even deliver simple lines, and only Clancy Brown and Tim DeKay seemed to give it an effort) and when that Ben Hawkins dude just didn’t go anywhere I was done.

I’m surprised though that it was costing so much money, I don’t believe there were a lot of different sets and it was pretty basic CGI. Maybe all the location-shoots?

Haven’t posted in a reeeeally long time, but I’m loving this trailer. I think it’s my favorite one so far.

Gotta say, I’m very much looking forward to seeing Melisandre this season. I was sold as soon as I heard Carice had gotten the part. The show hasn’t even started yet and she looks brilliant, can’t wait. :)

I’m sorry but it really grates on me when people go on about how Sansa can never pay enough. I find it really alarming in a world where there are countless people doing the worst they can do for their own personal gain, rapists and murders and it’s Sansa who can never ‘pay’ enough. First of all, it’s really rather disconcerting when grown adults hold grudges against 11 year old children, and Sansa did make mistakes but all she did was tell the Queen Ned’s plans because she didn’t want to leave King’s Landing, or at least not without seeing Joffrey first(yes she should have realized Joffrey was an evil psycho but she was eleven and he was the crown prince.) Maybe people forget how much royalty got away with in medieval times, Henry the eight continually cut people’s heads off for no real reasons and you can bet his people still sucked up to him and told him he was the greatest ever. People act as if Sansa had any clue of the consequences and then did what she did. If she had known it would destroy her family, and get her father killed, she would not have done it. She was a silly eleven year old, there was no malice or cruelty in her intentions so holding a grudge and saying she can never pay enough is just disturbing. And it not opinion, it’s fact. I saw the show first, and then read the books expecting Sansa to have done the WORST THINGS EVER. and when I read them I just went ‘that’s it, this is why people hate her so much….not comprehending…’ I don’t need anyone who disagrees to argue back on this seeing as we all know your views anyway, I really just wanted to say this and that’s it.

Freaking excellent…uhhh…this will make the wait until April seem like an eternity! Seeing Tyrion and Jon again…hells yessss! Stannis looks like such a bad ass, and Dany had me at “fire and blood”…I’m intrigued to see this Melissandre!

I’m just reading past the half-way point of ” A Game Of Thrones” and can’t put the book down…but I’ll have to stop reading the other novels once Season Two starts… after it’s done I’ll get going with the rest of the books! I have to say that seeing Season One first and now reading the first novel of ASOIF had quite the opposite effect on me…it has actually enhanced my reading of what was an already amazing novel and has made it even more so…if that is even possible! By the same token it has increased my love for the show as I realize what an outstanding job they’ve done with it!

PS Some people were complaininig about the music in the trailer, but I hope they realize that this is NOT the music that will appear on the show’s soundtrack, that it was only meant for the trailer…I remember watching some previews for “ROME” a few years back and they had also added “modern” sounding music to those trailers, and I sincerely thought that the show would be buggered if they used it for the show…and then the series premiered and I was treated to Jeff Beal’s masterful work…I hope Ramin Djawadi has prepared something special this season also!

I have to say a few things about Minahan because as far as I know, I’m the only one who has ever mentioned him on this board.

JC: are the only ones that truly got that feature scale down, and the fluidity and dynamism of cinema – not surprising now considering Brian Kirk and Alan Taylor both were sought out as candidates for the Thor sequel.

JC: And a director like Daniel Minahan both adds to the show (in excitement)

Why? I’m really asking because I never notice TV directors. So why does he bring excitement?

Minahan brought excitement? Alan Taylor, I hear about him more often. So I am interested in reading why or how Minahan brought excitement to season 1. I guess I missed it. With regards to Game of Thrones I’ve only been excited by the prospect of Tom McCarthy being a regular director.

JC: but also diminishes it (while his eps were some of the best-loved here, they were also the most conventionally – aka uninventively – directed episodes of the season)

In terms of awards and fan faves, episode 9 got most of the love. I only watched GoT once. All of the directing was conventional because apparently everyone was trying to hold onto their sanity and just through it without running out of money.

Episode 9 (directed by Alan Taylor) was the most loved episode by a long shot. Because of the obvious reason.

Artistically speaking, there was room in ep 9 to shoot an stylistically interesting scene with Tyrion gliding over the war camp unconscious. …Because the entire production just saved about 5 to 10 minutes from having to shoot an expensive battle scene. Point is this is an exception that borders on apologetic campiness that invokes a scene where D&D and Taylor are working on story boards to escape a battlescene. Taylor did a good job, but 9 was a different kind of episode. So I’m neutral about him coming back.

I liked Minahan because in the style of visual narration established throughout the season, he happened to be directing some of the better episodes of the year. Whether the eps he directed had a nicer script, better editing, or direction… maybe all of the above, still he was the director for these and they were all tight, solid and quality all the way through. However, episode 8 with GRRM’s script certainly has a unique pace and feel that best captures the essence of the book as a tv show.

I am sad not to see Minahan direct eps this year. But on the other hand I think the crew probably had a lot more confidence this time around.

Well said. I really liked Minahan’s episodes, and I think that’s partially because conventional direction is actually quite hard to do well. The scripts that Minahan executed were action-packed, it’s true, but they also had complex narratives that had to be managed along with the action. And he did a great job with both – in particular with episode 8, which was one of the only second-half episodes to include scenes from every story line.

I thought Taylor did a great job as well, but again mostly because he handled some big, complex scenes – and some small, intimate ones – with a great deal of skill, along with a few visually interesting compositions. But there was nothing especially unconventional about his approach – nor should there have been.

There really aren’t that many people hating on Sansa around. The majority of the posts I’ve seen in my stream and tags on Tumblr are people pissed at the people who hate Sansa- very little anti-Sansa action going on.
I respect people’s rights to individual opinions on characters, but I will have a real problem with anyone who tries to say that Sansa deserves to be stripped naked and/or physically or sexually abused. Regardless of what her character has done, that is not okay.

You wasted your parents retirement fund? Hardcore! I only prostituted myself for a year to get into film school.

Yeah that was a poor attempt at humour. I agree with you on Minahan. He and Taylor were my favorite directors of the season. Taylor will always be an HBO mainstay for me. In addition to Thrones he directed some of the best episodes of The Sopranos, Rome and Deadwood. I wonder if he ever did an episode of The Wire?

I wouldn’t say she deserves it, but there is a certain…I don’t know…it’s hard for me to get too BOTHERED when somebody reaps what they sow. It isn’t like she wasn’t warned about Joff. She’s spoiled, thoughtless, and selfish. Her actions helped start a chain of events that tore her family apart. I do hate her for it. The other Starks, the dead ones, had plenty of noble qualities I haven’t seen in Sansa.

That said…she suffers a great deal just in losing her dad. I think she deserves the psychological pain. But being physically beaten, stripped, etc, all that is excessive and is necessary, IMO, to get any sane viewer/reader to start to feel sympathetic towards her, and make us hate Joffrey that much more. People will have a hard time holding a grudge toward Sansa after those scenes. I know I did. GRRM knew what he was doing, structuring her character development that way.

It’s weird…people note how book Sansa is so much more polite than TV Sansa, who really did come off just bratty for the first 6 or so episodes. But I’m willing to bet that people will come around to TV Sansa much more readily for the simple fact that we see a real person go through that horrible stuff.

It is not necessary for a female character to be beaten and stripped in order to make her sympathetic or redeemed. And while Sansa behaved unwisely, she is 11-13 (book vs tv) and she is not responsible for her father’s death. She is not “reaping what she sowed” when she’s being abused. Honestly, dude.

To be fair, Sansa had no idea she was betraying her family. In the books, Sansa was an eleven year old girl who loved where she was, and when her father suddenly says “we’re leaving” without an explanation, of course she’s going to go cry to someone. Cersei was the one who managed to put the pieces together. I don’t think Sansa was at fault at all.

I only said she reaps what she sows when her dad is killed because she couldn’t be bothered to trust him and blabs his intentions. And because she couldn’t be honest about Micah. etc. The truth about Joff was plain as day. The age thing doesn’t exonerate her IMO. Joff is the roughly same age. I bet you hate him, and did even before what he did with Bran, and that was early on. Because he was an insufferable ass. Is it okay for Joff because he’s male? Sansa was insufferable, folks dislike her for it, and then she undergoes trials and is made sympathetic as a result. The beatings are in there for a pretty good reason. I agree with you that her mistreatment is not deserved and anyone who thinks otherwise has some issues.

I just don’t subscribe to the idea that we can’t dislike a character who is written to be thoughtless and selfish simply because she’s ‘too young.’ It isn’t like there aren’t honest, decent young people, or older people who would do the same thing she did. What I see isn’t some arbitrary age, but her actions. Just so I know, though, what is the “age” she would need to be where people COULD dislike her for her selfishness without being harassed about it?

But why do people care if people love or hate a character? Especially Sansa…people are entitled to their own opinions…and to others who argue about these feelings…this is a friggin work of fiction people. Let people hate who they hate, let people give sympathy to who they want, whatever. Can’t we all just enjoy an amazing book series/television series as it is?

I guess whenever people make mistakes they deserve to be beaten, basically raped, and abused? What a strange world some people live in.

That being said I really don’t like Sansa, but in no way do I think she deserves what she’s getting due to her ignorance and naivety.

Edit: Just wanted to add, maybe the people commiting the atrocities against her should be blamed? Reminds me of women who get stoned to death for being raped in third world countries. She asked for it right? Please.

It’s funny how people hate Sansa… basically for being a child. And how she got some of her respect back for thinking of murdering Joff. And she’ll probably get even more “badass” reputation, when she finishes the LF school of… being a Petyr Baelish. It’s pretty much the same as Manderly getting instant adoration for being a cannibal.
Our moral values are quite fucked up, when it comes to GoT, it seems. :D

2. In fact the guy here making his case compares the way he hates Sansa to the way people hate Joffrey.

He says people are fine and okay that people openly hate Joffrey, that they put his animation of him getting slapped hard on a loop. People think this is funny. Because Joff is evil.

But he’s also a little child. So why is that okay? Because the characters are presented to you–it’s a manipulation.

If it’s natural to hate text Joffrey, then why not hate text Sansa?

Reminder: Joffrey is a little boy. 12 years old.

Wait wait, how does THAT make sense? The comparison is highly unreasonable. Joffrey ordered to behead a man (against all the common sense) – for the fun of it, heavily abused his wife-to-be and almost got her raped – for the fun of it and all in all has proven to be a sadistic and violent human being. Whereas Sansa acted quite normal for her age, upbringing and situation, even if it lacked cunning (no big surprise there, her being completely unaware of the actual reasons for Ned’s decision).
Disliking Joff is not a result of manipulation and doesn’t depend on the viewpoint we are presented with, it’s just a judgement by his actions and his charachter. A good example of actual manipulation in aSoIaF certainly is Jaime, who reader’s made to hate until he learns more about him and his motives. Of course, you can argue that that’s because we could see him from his own POV but there’s that other example where seing a character from the inside didn’t make him look any better at all: Cercei. Thus, I really doubt that even seeing Joffrey from his own persective would have made him any more likable.
Bottom line: comparing Joffrey-hatred to Sansa-hatred is weird.

I understand where the Sansa hatred comes from, but honestly blaming her for Ned’s death would be on the same scale of logic as blaming Arya for Micah’s and Lady’s deaths.

I like7find all the characters interesting. Even Cerseis head is fun, cause she just cant escape her selft and how she sees the world.

As for Sansa. My read of the book always was that Ned was doomed, if not Sansa had told the queen, somebody else say littlefinger would have made the queen an offer or one of the goldcloaks.
if somebody hates sansa cause she told Cersei.That person shoulsd hate Ned for telling Cersei his plan and trusting Littlefinger.
Or Robb for trading his most important ally for his sense of duty & pride.
Or…

What is weird is to think any child in real life should deserve punishment or death, and that a child is not redeemable. It’s not just weird; it’s sick. Sansa or Joffrey. That’s the bottom line.

But we are only discussing a work of horror in fiction. So it’s like commenting on how many human entrails go flying from the chainsaw.

Regarding the manipulation, Joff’s character is presented a certain way which makes the reader know without question (like you do) that Joffrey is irredeemable, even though he’s 12. Which is a silly black and white portrait that readers of gentle fiction understand easily. Who knows, maybe Gregory Maguire will write a book from Joffrey’s perspective one day which will show the other side of the story.

p: I understand where the Sansa hatred comes from, but honestly blaming her for Ned’s death would be on the same scale of logic as blaming Arya for Micah’s and Lady’s deaths.

lol, Sansa is more responsible for Micah’s death than Arya–whose only ‘crime’ was playing with a boy below her station and sticking up for him. Noble. Sansa’s lies, on the other hand, were the farthest thing from noble. And she’s pretty freaking DUMB as well, to see Cersei order a dog put to death that she knows did no wrong and yet later on think the bitch is worth confiding in to ANY degree, let alone over her FATHER.

Oh, yeah. I remember why that might be. She blames her DAD for Lady’s death, too. Not Cersei. Heavens. That would only be logical, too much to ask from Sansa to be logical.

It seems like Sansa’s defenders can only fall back on “She’s a kid.” Maybe such people haven’t known very many bright children, but to me that defense is trying to make the case that the stupid things she does are inevitable, or something, because of her age. It’s not her age.

Pepi: It’s funny how people hate Sansa… basically for being a child. And how she got some of her respect back for thinking of murdering Joff.

The first time I got to that moment I wasn’t quite sure if she planned on pushing him or jumping off herself, or maybe both. That’s a sympathy building moment for sure.

Only thing I’m not sure about is Melisandre. Her bad dye job looks stupid (anime-ish) and she always has this expression of “oh look at me, I’m so evvvvuuul” in every shot. That’s just wrong. She should look supremely confident, poised, and calm. I’m a bit wary of Van Houten now… She’s gonna have to work to impress me as every shot I see her I feel more and more worried.

As I said before, I dug the rest of the cast though Michael J. Anderson does have his missteps. Brown and DeKay were certainly standouts but I’ve always thought the rest of the cast got that shuffling carnival troupe vibe down pat. I quite liked the whole Dreyfuss family in particular (Cynthia Ettinger, Carla Gallo, and Toby Huss). In terms of the money issue – my guess would be – location, location, location :p. And a lot of great detail in the production design.

I’m actually aware that Minahan was a candidate for Thor 2 hahah but of course it didn’t help my points. I thought it was actually quite hilarious that they basically just tried to rip all the Game of Thrones directors to do the damn sequel.

I point out the “excitement” angle because those episodes to me felt like the closest Game of Thrones will ever feel to something like True Blood, another show that Minahan works on regularly – and I find that shows. I mean, sure part of it is the storyline itself at that point, but he directs with a more in-your-face style that’s more “exciting” in how direct it is but not exactly subtle. Basically, I found he brought a pulp sensibility to the show, when the kind of show I’m hoping for in Game of Thrones is one with a more mature vibe.

I have to disagree regarding conventional direction being hard to do well. I mean, of course in relation to anything else, directing in general is a difficult process, but there’s a template for conventional directing in every mainstream studio film Hollywood churns out. I mean, Hollywood’s business basically hinges on easy-to-follow bland styles and continuity editing developed in the Golden Age.

That said, I have to concede that conventional was not the appropriate word to use. I can tell his style so that may not be the best word to use. I guess what I should say is that I find his style to be the direction I would like Game of Thrones to shy away from.

I agree with you that the management of the narratives was done well, but maybe I should also have been clearer that what I’m focusing on is what each director brings to the table visually, stylistically, and atmospherically.

While most shows have a set style that is consistent regardless of director, I actually found Game of Thrones to have very distinct work by all the directors. If you had shown me the last 8 episodes in random order without telling me who directed each one, I’m pretty certain I would have been able to place who directed which episode. van Patten’s first two episodes are the hardest for me to put a finger on – I have a sense of how they feel but I’m stumped as to how to describe them. Of course McCarthy also worked on a portion of the pilot episode but for me, these two episodes while doing a good job setting up the series, felt a bit mixed.

However, Brian Kirk’s episodes have a distinctly stately, elegant feel to them. He’s got a reserved static style with the camera, with the occasional smooth glide, one that really works in The Wolf and the Lion where it gives the events an epic sweep. That episode is an example where the events are as pulpy as any of the content of the Minahan episodes – but they don’t feel pulpy in the same lurid way. Even with the crazy events of the ep (like Lysa), Kirk dials back with restraint in the camerawork, really giving the Eyrie a sense of scale in its warped elegance that balances out the pulpiness and just makes it odd. I mean, some people were comparing that scene to Lynch and that’s because he got the balance right. I’m pretty damn certain Minahan would have tipped the scale over the top in that scene so that it just became pure pulp. I love, love, LOVE this episode, it’s by my favourite of the season with what I consider the best scene (Robert and Cersei’s conversation).

Daniel Minahan we covered above.

And Alan Taylor brought elegance as well, but a more lived-in elegance than Kirk. The cinematography was far more naturalistic, more off-the-cuff, finding beauty intentionally in less perfect camera moves, etc. It was perfect for that world-weary feel that they needed for the final two episodes. I know Baelor is loved for obviously the big ending, but that’s not really why I personally love it – it’s that rugged beauty that Taylor was able to bring to the table. The show actually felt completely alive to me in the final two episodes, and the world opened up so that I actually felt transported, briefly in the way I mentioned before (with Mad Men and Carnivale).

I just went to check on IMDb – and I’m not surprised in the least that one editor worked on the Kirk episodes and the Taylor episodes (by far the best paced and cut episodes of the season imo) while Minahan’s episodes were all cut by one editor (who has most recently worked on the pulpy and less-than-subtle ABC show Revenge).

Just saw the trailer again. For the third time now. Must say, it keeps getting better. Cant wait for the dvds to release. That should ease the wait.
Stil didnt see amy glimps of giants. Maybe a bit to early?

I agree with those that think it is silly to get up in arms over a fictional characters fate. That said I think this might be resolved with a little better wording choice.

Sansa got what she asked for. She wanted Joff and now she has him. Was she foolish to ask for such a thing? Clearly, but it is what she wanted, despite protests and warnings from many characters. This makes more sense than saying she deserves what she is getting. No one, regardless of how foolish deserves to be beaten or raped.

Again, to be clear, I am NOT saying she asked to be beaten and raped, but she did ask to be with Joff and that has some consequences for her, unfortunately.

After my first read through I hated Sansa as well, but I’ve come round. Yes she does some stupid things in the beginning and it’s easier to like the rebellious Arya. After my second read I changed my mind. If you consider the horrible crap Sansa is being put through I find it amazing how sane she stays throughout the whole ordeal. While Arya goes kinda batshit, which is also understandable.

Yes, Sansa is very much a pawn to be moved around by the other players, but I for one can’t wait to see what happens to her.

That is the essence of it.
The oh so hated Sansa is just like Ned in that both think that people do the right thing because it is the right thing. Sansa has grown up being teached about life being a fairy tale.
Ned on the other hand should know better, but I guess in his mind he never thought Cersei would be a active player.
On the other hand Arya is more like her mother in that both try to be active player. Cat knows how to do that. Arya doesnt, but her journey is a little unbelieveable.

Arya is supposed to be like her father, Stark blood, long face, dark hair. A tough cookie. Sansa is more like her mother, a princess, a beauty, soft, auburn hair. In the books, Catelyn makes error after error. Just like Sansa. The show makes Cat look less stupid.

GRRM favors Jon Snow and Arya in the books as they are most Stark-like. And it shows. There is something about the riverlands he hates.

Michael Tschuertz: jkb, Sansa has grown up being teached about life being a fairy tale.Ned on the other hand should know better,

Eh, don’t forget, Ned was never raised to be Lord Stark…he had to take over when his brother Brandon was killed by the Mad King. He wasn’t completely sheltered from court intrigue, but he wouldn’t have gotten all the lessons in dealing with Lannisters that his brother got…not to mention, Ned was raised away from home, and Jon Arryn has never really been described as a skilled politician.

Ned has been out of his depth for years, but he never knew it, because he was hanging out up North, where all you have to do is keep to the old ways, and keep to yourself. He was doomed the moment he set out for Kings Landing, but mostly I blame Lord Rickard Stark and Jon Arryn for not preparing him better.

you right forgot about that, I was think more along the lines of the Ned/Sansa & Cat/Arya thing, still…
What killed him was more his good faith in people & and his worldview that women are not players.

Admittedly its been a while since i read the books, but im not sure Ned is being done much service in being called naive. If Ned didnt know what it was like in the capital when he went there (which i get the impression he did), he was well informed by Varys / Littlefinger.

I dont think it was a matter of Ned being naive, from his point of view he was just refusing to sink to their level, hes too honorable. I think he had some appreciation for what the capital is like

I have to ask after re-watching the trailer, at point 0.35 when we see Rob, the voice in the background is that our Jeyne Westerling speaking or not? If it is then we hear her for the first time and she does not sound that bad. Shame we didn’t see her though.