I've been intending to do longer reviews, but I don't have a lot to write about this webcomic. Oh well.

Website: This basic website seems to be clumsily plugged into a template, leaving somewhat of a jumbled mess that the creator doesn't seem capable of or interested in fixing. Immediately noticeable is that the navigation buttons wrap in a disorderly way, as if the layout's divisions are smaller than they need to be. The "Extras" page has buttons awkwardly strewn around the layout, filling the page with images of black squares for no apparent reason. And the layout of the "Pamphlets" page quickly starts to break down once a reader changes the formatting by clicking on the links. It's unclear to me why the creator tolerates these numerous defects when a simple layout like this could be coded in basic HTML.

I appreciate that the site has some bonus content, although I don't consider any of it to be interesting or appealing. The site's attempts at political humor, for instance, aren't funny or clever, and the character biographies are nonsensical ramblings.

Lastly, the fuchsia-colored links are an eyesore.

Writing: This is a webcomic that's weird for the sake of being weird. While it's commendable that the creator decided to take an unorthodox approach, Wonderdrome seems terminally stuck in the conceptual stage, rapidly firing bizarre scenes at the reader while leaving the actual execution of those scenes as an afterthought. This is an ineffective method of writing, as execution's far more important than concept, and I expect potential readers will be disappointed that Wonderdrome doesn't offer more substantial content. I think it'd be accurate to describe the comic as basically just a collection of strange drawings, actually, with the narrative elements being haphazardly tacked on.

Art: Every panel looks rushed and childish to me, which is a major downfall for Wonderdrome since it places so much emphasis on its strange illustrations. The principal shame here, though, is that I get the impression the creator's capable of doing a much better job with the artwork, and either doesn't care enough to actually invest a significant amount of time and effort into the project, or he intends for the low-quality drawings to make the comic seem even more bizarre and creative. I'm confident, though, that Wonderdrome would be much more appealing if it had competent artwork. It's true that some popular webcomics, like Cyanide & Happiness and White Ninja, can more or less get away with having childish artwork, but that's because, unlike Wonderdrome, they're writing-centric -- and most writing-centric webcomics get held back by their lousy artwork anyways.

Fortunately, though, Wonderdrome's artwork does have an upside, and it's that the comic's large illustrations and vertical layouts bring the pacing to a crawl, delivering an unusual comic reading experience similar to browsing through a slideshow gallery. Wonderdrome's erratic narrative style and bizarre visuals combine to make this experience particularly engaging, since there's never a clear indication of what will occur next, and I was constantly apprehensive reading the comic, anticipating every next panel to be a raging dickmonster, or some other obscenity. (Despite my concern, all of the drawings in the pages I read ended up being fairly tame.) I consider this use of infinite canvas to be Wonderdrome's most notable aspect, although there's certainly more potential here that the creator hasn't fully utilized yet.

Overall: There's an extra element of uneasiness about criticizing unusual webcomics, as it feels like it carries an implication, to an extent, of quashing creativity, and stubbornly rejecting innovation and individuality. But the flip side of this is that avant-garde creators are susceptible to adopting an ideology of victimhood that can get in the way of improvement. Wonderdome demonstrates a sense of passion and creativity, but the art and writing are both extremely lackluster, and I don't see any indication that this webcomic will gain a significant following in its current form.

"Seems like the only comics that would be good to this person are super action crazy lines, mega poses!"

What web browser & viewing device are you using? The site is actually something I designed from scratch. I know that it looks good on my mac on current firefox, chrome and safari, and on my iphone, but I haven't tested any on PCs and that is some really useful feedback.

If anyone else reading this gets the same wrapping issues and has some coding knowledge I'd really appreciate a PM. It's written in HTML and PHP.

[edited to add] ALSO: Thanks for the review. I appreciate the time and effort you put into it despite Wonderdrome not exactly being your cup of tea. We comickers work hard for attention to be paid to our stuff, and to make stuff worthy of attention.

Wonderdrome wrote:What web browser & viewing device are you using? The site is actually something I designed from scratch. I know that it looks good on my mac on current firefox, chrome and safari, and on my iphone, but I haven't tested any on PCs and that is some really useful feedback.

I'm using a PC with Firefox 3.6.12.

Wonderdrome wrote:If anyone else reading this gets the same wrapping issues and has some coding knowledge I'd really appreciate a PM. It's written in HTML and PHP.

The problems seem pretty simple to fix.

LibertyCabbage wrote:the navigation buttons wrap in a disorderly way

Fix: Make this value bigger in the main.css file:#container{width:720px;

OR, you could change the settings for the navigation buttons in the main.css file to make them smaller.#sitenav.comicnav

Fix: This page is just 12 images with float:left, which is a sloppy way to code. Do a table instead.

LibertyCabbage wrote:And the layout of the "Pamphlets" page quickly starts to break down once a reader changes the formatting by clicking on the links.

Fix: In the main.css file, change the settings for the pamphlet class..pamphlet{width:360px;height:120px;float:left;

.archive similarly controls the settings for the "Archive" page.

Wonderdrome wrote:[edited to add] ALSO: Thanks for the review. I appreciate the time and effort you put into it despite Wonderdrome not exactly being your cup of tea. We comickers work hard for attention to be paid to our stuff, and to make stuff worthy of attention.

I would've liked to be more helpful and specific, but I feel like Wonderdrome requires such a drastic change in direction that it wouldn't be relevant. I generally like weird comics like this, but I know Wonderdrome could be done a lot better.

"Seems like the only comics that would be good to this person are super action crazy lines, mega poses!"

Not to get nasty but your closing comment irked me. I don't want my gratefulness for your consideration to be mistaken in any sense for an agreement with your expressed opinions, desire for expansion on them, or recognition of your thoughts as authoritative or particularly interesting. I asked for the review, you provided it, and I do appreciate that sacrifice of your time. However it was not help I was looking for (and if it was, I don't think your condescending brand could have sufficed.) If they don't come with specific questions, I don't imagine it's help anyone's looking for on these forums. Rather they (I) are (am) here at cross motivational purposes for inspiration, reflections, publicity, and likely a monster or two like self-affirmation.

[Afterthought: I did want help with CSS, hence the specific questions.]

I hate that I was annoyed enough to respond, and I desperately don't want to continue this conversation. If you want a last word please take it, but I'm done. This response is really just me working out the indignation and frustration that these phrases from your posts excited in me:

"This is a webcomic that's weird for the sake of being weird.""Wonderdrome requires such a drastic change in direction""I know Wonderdrome could""regardless of its quality""dickmonster"

It'd look fine if he didn't choose to draw with a mouse, but you can't deny a certain surrealist touch to this kind of stubborn fixation on the ugliness. But I'm always puzzled by this kind of defensiveness, if you're making a comic that is decidedly not for everyone's taste, shouldn't you be prepared for when you run into one of those people? I mean if your second comic shows some kind of a snake graphically coming out of someone's ass, how can the phrase "dickmonster" cause indignation and frustration in you?It'd be interesting to hear Wonderdrome argue against Liberty's points (well apart from the old internet thing of interpreting politeness as patronizing). If it's not a comic that is "weird for being weird", then I'd be interested to hear which underlying logic dictates this weirdness. I'm wondering just what is it that the guy is trying to do there.

McDuffies wrote: you can't deny a certain surrealist touch to this kind of stubborn fixation on the ugliness.

You make it sound like an early John Waters movie

McDuffies wrote:I mean if your second comic shows some kind of a snake graphically coming out of someone's ass, how can the phrase "dickmonster" cause indignation and frustration in you?

If it's not a comic that is "weird for being weird", then I'd be interested to hear which underlying logic dictates this weirdness. I'm wondering just what is it that the guy is trying to do there.

I'm reminded of a student filmmaker I DP'd for a couple of times who was obsessed with David Lynch's stuff but never quite understood the hows/whys of it all. There's a fine line between "offending sensibilities" and just being offensive.

But honestly I think I'm giving too much credit here, from perusing the extra stuff on Wonderdrome I get the feeling it's creator is trying to simulate an acid trip without ever having experienced one (I haven't either but I know people who have - used to work with them).

I could dissect a lot more but I prefer to review comics that actually want to improve.

...

I do wonder however how well he'll take the further discussion of his comic by people who weren't asked to get involved...

Deviantart~tumblr"Your service is to the story and to the characters. Fuck the audience and fuck your own whims." - Yeahduff

That's understandable. So, I'll make a general observation that relates to your post instead.

Wonderdrome wrote:Rather they (I) are (am) here at cross motivational purposes for inspiration, reflections, publicity, and likely a monster or two like self-affirmation.

I've noticed a general concern that blunt criticism can be destructive, in that instead of helping creators improve their craft, it can demoralize them and turn them off from making comics altogether. But what I think some people fail to take into account is that the abrasiveness of external criticism is primarily caused by a discrepancy with the creator's internal criticism, or self-criticism. Ideally, an inexperienced creator, starting off with an underdeveloped internal critic, will, over time, mature their internal critic to the point where they're able to effectively evaluate their own work, and external criticism becomes much less significant. The ugly reality of the situation, though, is that not every creator has the proper personality required to sufficiently develop their internal critic. In fact, I think the majority of creators aren't capable of doing it.

How do you determine, then, which creators have the right personality for developing an internal critic? I think it would require being intimately familiar with the creator, which is impossible just from reading their webcomic. That's why I'm careful not to advise anyone to quit making comics, because no matter how much their creative abilities are lacking, doing so would be purely pessimistic. And even if a creator isn't ready for self-criticism at the moment, who's to say how their personality will change in one, three, five, or even 10 years from now?

I think a big reason that creators get offended by negative reviews is that they feel entitled to be rewarded for the time and effort they put into their project/s. But this feeling of entitlement is merely a desire for external criticism to synchronize with the creator's internal criticism, which is rarely a realistic scenario. A better approach, in my opinion, would be to strive for the approval of a healthy internal critic, and to get satisfaction from living up to one's own lofty standards.

I originally wrote "Every panel looks childish and ugly," but I thought that calling the artwork "ugly" would be an unnecessary low blow. I guess it wouldn't be inappropriate in this context after all.

McDuffies wrote:how can the phrase "dickmonster" cause indignation and frustration in you?

Especially since the phrase was part of my praise of Wonderdrome's use of infinite canvas. But yes, raising the possibility of a dick showing up shouldn't be considered that much of a stretch in a comic where a woman has sex with a hot dog, and another character mentions licking someone's anus.

Also, I won't pass up the opportunity to point out that one of the comic's characters is a giant weiner.

McDuffies wrote:I'd be interested to hear which underlying logic dictates this weirdness.

Same here, although, unfortunately, it seems unlikely at this point.

RobboAKAscooby wrote:I get the feeling it's creator is trying to simulate an acid trip without ever having experienced one

Which isn't necessarily a bad concept. But I think Wonderdrome's creator may be underestimating the amount of difficulty inherent in pulling off that concept properly.

"Seems like the only comics that would be good to this person are super action crazy lines, mega poses!"

RobboAKAscooby wrote:I'm reminded of a student filmmaker I DP'd for a couple of times who was obsessed with David Lynch's stuff but never quite understood the hows/whys of it all. There's a fine line between "offending sensibilities" and just being offensive.

I like to put Monty Python as example, as dadaist of offensive as they tried to be (like, undertaker sketch or Sam Peckinpah movie sketch) there was always a strong underlying logic that drove events. You don't have to follow the rules of the real world, but you have to follow the rules that you set yourself, and that's where the humor comes from.

But honestly I think I'm giving too much credit here, from perusing the extra stuff on Wonderdrome I get the feeling it's creator is trying to simulate an acid trip without ever having experienced one (I haven't either but I know people who have - used to work with them).

Eeh... the thing is that the comic has a certain consistency. It has, so to say, a vision, a sensibility. It's another question whether it's a sensibility anyone is interested in and whether author is interested in working to make it accessible to any target audience.

I've been meaning to start following this thread for a while, but it was kind of long so I put if off. And then it kept getting longer so I kept putting it off and so on. So I'm gonna just jump in the middle and hope I haven't missed all the good reviews/drama.

Presentation: The book's lightweight and compact, and I estimate it's about 8"-by-6" in size. This makes it easier to store and carry than most comic books, which I consider to be a plus.

The high-quality pages are glossy and in full color, and I didn't experience any problems with the pages or binding. After reading it from cover to cover, the book's still in excellent condition. I don't know what printing service the creator used for the book, but the quality doesn't seem any worse than what I'd expect from a major publisher.

The book has a few pages of concept sketches and extras that, as far as I can tell, aren't available on the Widdershins website. The extras consist of magic-themed gags, and are of a more comical nature than the actual comic.

Writing: The creator's already demonstrated her aptitude for storytelling with her successful fantasy webcomic Darken, and Widdershins shows that her comicking skills have continued to improve since concluding her previous project. This new endeavor is pleasantly sophisticated and original, and it exhibits a refined sensibility that I identify as British charm.

Widdershins conveys an "alternate reality" Victorian setting that feels torn between gritty realism and whimsical supernatural wonder, and the creator does a great job of balancing the optimistic and pessimistic aspects of the story in order to create a mood that's both fun and apprehensive. The differences between the protagonists, Harry and Sid, are also handled very well, and while having completely polar personalities, they have great chemistry as a team. Harry's cynical and disillusioned, but Sid's enthusiasm has a positive effect on her, as if reminding her why she became interested in adventuring in the first place. This sense of contrast is also apparent in Sid's rivalry with Macavity, as they're about as different as possible.

Sidney works well as a protagonist because, while falling under the familiar "lovable loser" archetype, his principal motivation is experiencing as much as possible, which is an unusual and attractive perspective. This explains why he's so high-spirited regardless of whether there's danger or opportunity present, as he's simply eager to experience exotic situations, and the possibility of injury or death only seems to make these experiences seem more special and appealing. By contrast, Harry seems to have experienced too much in her life, and a result, she reacts to these perilous situations in a much more negative manner.

Magic in this setting is handled in a unique way, which is that it's based on emotional energy. A good example of this is when Sid discerns that the train they're riding has been enchanted with "impatience" to make it travel faster. There are also physical embodiments of emotions, like anger and greed, that can be summoned by those with sufficient magical training. It's a cool, subtle alternative to the flashy spellcasting in other settings, although I would've preferred it if the extent of Sid's abilities was a little more coherent. He seems to fluctuate between being a capable student of magic, and being a mundane vagabond (like when he performs normal "magic tricks"), and these distinctions seem to be dictated by the needs of the plot more than anything else.

The weak spot of the writing's the underwhelming romantic subplot, which feels shoehorned into the story. This stems at least partly from the underdeveloped character Florence, who mainly serves as a vehicle to speed up the development of Harry and Sid's relationship, as well as a representation of a "proper" Victorian woman (in obvious contrast to Harry's masculine behavior). I think Widdershins is trying to do too much with its first chapter in this regard, as its 68 pages aren't enough room to have both its self-contained adventure story and a properly paced romance. Two alternative approaches would have been to shift the romantic focus to another book, or to elaborate on the romance but delay the resolution of the central plot till later.

Artwork: The comic's landscape layouts are very unusual, and I don't recall seeing a webcomic oriented in this manner since DC Comics' Zuda Comics project. Widdershins reads like any other comic, though, so the orientation doesn't seem to make much of a difference, if any. I'm actually somewhat surprised now that more webcomics don't design their pages this way.

As for the illustrations, the smooth linework, expressive body language, and intricate environments suggest a level of professionalism rarely seen in webcomics. All the characters have distinct, clever designs, and the creator manages to draw them with a notable degree of consistency. These characters are conveyed through a solid variety of close-ups, medium shots, wide shots, and establishing shots, which helps keeps the story fresh despite the heavy focus on the dialogue between Harry and Sid. There's also a great amount of effort here put into carefully depicting the Victorian setting, and the clothing, architecture, and technology present in the scenes effectively evoke this particular period of history.

Widdershins also has an appealing aesthetic in the way that its cartoony style balances out the dark coloring and heavy shadows. Almost all of the book takes place either at night, or in cloudy, rainy weather, so the simplistic faces and energetic postures help direct the comic towards being a fun fantasy adventure story. Another example of the cartoony direction is how Harry's pipe smoke is shown in unrealistic solid coloring, which builds upon the comic's light, whimsical look. The creator could've easily taken a more noir-ish route with the project given its somewhat dark subject matter, so these creative decisions are important for establishing the creator's intended artistic direction.

Lastly, the fancy font and initials used for Sid's spellcasting and the spirit's dialogue are a nice touch that further adds to the way the comic presents the magical realm with a sense of wondrous excitement.

Overall:Widdershins is a well-executed fantasy story that represents the pinnacle of webcomics. Already well into its second book only nine months after launching, the comic bears all the hallmarks of a professional operation, with the major exception that the creator lets readers browse the entire comic on her website for free. This level of dedication is rarely seen in webcomics, making this a truly special project that every fan of comics should check out.

"Seems like the only comics that would be good to this person are super action crazy lines, mega poses!"

IVstudios wrote:I've been meaning to start following this thread for a while, but it was kind of long so I put if off. And then it kept getting longer so I kept putting it off and so on. So I'm gonna just jump in the middle and hope I haven't missed all the good reviews/drama.

Great! I hope you like what I've written so far.

"Seems like the only comics that would be good to this person are super action crazy lines, mega poses!"

Some things: The printing company did do a fantastic job, I couldn't be happier with them. If anyone's in the UK and want a comic printed, I couldn't recommend comicprintinguk.com enough.

It's a shame a few things didn't come across as I wanted them to, but that's something I'll learn from for next time. With regards the 'romance', there isn't one as such (at least not yet), and it's something that'll be developed in later stories with those two, which should hopefully read better as a whole. I completely didn't think about how it would read as a one-off book though, which was stupid of me. I guess that's one of those mistakes you find when you translate from web to print, doh. Another on the list of lessons learned. Ditto with Sid's 'abilities', basically he's okish at actual magic, but he prefers stage magic and that's what he's good at. His little problem manifests as shiny things ending up on him, for the most part. Again, I'll have to clarify this later, thanks for the warning that it didn't come across clearly enough.

I'm glad that the lightness of it came across alright, I was aiming for an Indiana Jones feel, and from what a few readers have said, I seem to have managed to hit the spot I was going for. This couldn't make me happier

With regards the orientation of the book, it's a trick I stole from comics like Sorcery 101, Octopus Pie, and Oglaf. Landscape fits the screen much better, the shelf less so, but since 99% of readers will be reading the web version, I thought I'd give it a shot!

Thanks again, it's always heartening to hear you've managed to put across most of what you wanted to say with a comic

Komiyan wrote:With regards the 'romance', there isn't one as such (at least not yet), and it's something that'll be developed in later stories with those two, which should hopefully read better as a whole.

It's mostly a part of Florence's role, as she brings up the subject a few times. The only other time I remember's the awkward page with Harry and Sid after they get off the train, which seems like a dopey rom-com scene that doesn't really fit in with the rest of the comic. I actually intended it as a fairly minor complaint, though, which is something I possibly should've stated more clearly in the review. Florence and the romance subplot are obviously a very small portion of the book, in any case.

Komiyan wrote:I completely didn't think about how it would read as a one-off book though, which was stupid of me. I guess that's one of those mistakes you find when you translate from web to print, doh. Another on the list of lessons learned.

I intended to review the book both as its own thing and as part of a series. I feel like this is how someone would review something like a Hunger Games, Harry Potter, or LotR book (or movie), where each one has a clear beginning, middle, and end, but at the same time they're obviously part of a larger story and are expected to have unresolved elements (which are part of the motivation to buy the next book). But more relevant would be that with a first book, you have to dedicate extra time to exposition, establishing the setting, and introducing your characters, and that has a significant effect on the pacing.

Komiyan wrote:Ditto with Sid's 'abilities', basically he's okish at actual magic, but he prefers stage magic and that's what he's good at. His little problem manifests as shiny things ending up on him, for the most part. Again, I'll have to clarify this later, thanks for the warning that it didn't come across clearly enough.

I just expect that if real magic existed it would obsolete fake magic to an extent, and the comic doesn't do enough to address this issue.

Komiyan wrote:I'm glad that the lightness of it came across alright, I was aiming for an Indiana Jones feel, and from what a few readers have said, I seem to have managed to hit the spot I was going for. This couldn't make me happier

I think having "an Indiana Jones feel" is a good way of describing the comic.

Komiyan wrote:With regards the orientation of the book, it's a trick I stole from comics like Sorcery 101, Octopus Pie, and Oglaf. Landscape fits the screen much better, the shelf less so, but since 99% of readers will be reading the web version, I thought I'd give it a shot!

Yeah, it does make sense in terms of the horizontal nature of computer monitors. A 900x600 page will fit on a screen, but a 600x900 page won't.

Komiyan wrote:Thanks again, it's always heartening to hear you've managed to put across most of what you wanted to say with a comic

Yeah, it's definitely something tricky to pull off.

"Seems like the only comics that would be good to this person are super action crazy lines, mega poses!"

Sure, I'll check it out and write a review sometime in the next couple weeks. Since this is your first comic, though, I don't want you to build up your expectations too much, so I'll take this opportunity to briefly mention a few problems I immediately noticed with the artwork (which I'll elaborate upon in the actual review):

What? You mean I shouldn't have expected an objective party picking out and expounding upon flaws in the artwork and the writing that are usually eased with experience? Sweet!

Honestly, though, I have my own criticisms of it, and anything you put forward (of have) is greatly appreciated as at least it gives me a subject of focus so I work constructively on improving. I expect neither accolades nor feel-good BS; but, having read your previous reviews, I think I can expect at least an honest, objective opinion.

You have a good attitude about it. I acknowledge, though, that it's really hard being a beginner, as not only is your skill level at its zenith, but you haven't had enough experience yet to mentally condition yourself to doing webcomics. The reason there's that weird 20-page minimum in the comic pitching forum's 'cause a lot of webcartoonists get burned out on doing it before they even get that far into their project.

At least for now, I don't think updating daily's a good idea, as you're obviously relying on copy-pasting and repetitive, simplistic drawings in order to keep up your schedule, and it's probably hampering your pace of improvement. Doing something like two or three pages a week would let you spend your comic time working on more challenging panels, as well as freeing up time for some very necessary practice drawing.

"Seems like the only comics that would be good to this person are super action crazy lines, mega poses!"