M2K, in your honest opinion, do you think the Lion CBs suck? Just curious.

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February 20th, 2010, 9:56 am

inheritedlionsfan

League MVP

Joined: January 13th, 2006, 4:18 amPosts: 3666Location: Maryland

The corner market in free agency looks terrible. I would take a look at Dunta Robinson but coming off an injury he had an up and down season last year. I wouldn't put big money into him. I hope somehow we can land Kyle Wilson and get some depth guys in late rounds or FA. Even if we sign Dunta I would still like to add Wilson.

February 20th, 2010, 11:41 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

I don't know about trading up to get Wilson. Not that I don't like him as a player (I do), but I don't know that the Lions can afford to give up any picks, now or in the future. Too many other needs exist.

I certainly agree that DT is a dire need. It is the reason why I am not clamoring for the Lions to do anything and everything to trade down and take Joe Haden. Plus, I don't think anyone is going to be trading in the top five picks. It rarely happens.

If the Lions have to "settle" for a CB in the second round, then I'd be OK with Donovan Warren or Patrick Robinson at #34. I'd prefer Warren over Robinson, but it is possible Warren goes late in round one, even if I feel he's not worthy of the pick.

What I think could happen is that the Lions use their second pick on a player to fill another need, like taking Maurkice Pouncey to be the LG, and then trade back up into the lower part of the second round to take someone like Devin McCourty, Brandon Ghee or even Perrish Cox.

Of those three, I am most intrigued by Perrish Cox. He is tall (6'2") but showed really fluid hips and pretty good coverage skills at the Senior Bowl. The Lions would probably have to give up their first fifth round pick to move back up, but if he's there near the 58th pick or so, I'd do what I could to get him.

At that point, the Lions could wait until round four to get a RB or a DE. I wouldn't mind seeing the Lions go after LaGarrette Blount or Anthony Dixon in round four, if they are available. From a DE standpoint, I like Alex Carrington or C.J. Wilson in the fourth round.

Late round five there should still be some WRs worth looking at, like a Jacoby Ford (speed) or maybe Taylor Price.

February 20th, 2010, 12:53 pm

blueblood1

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 2:19 pmPosts: 577

m2karateman wrote:

What I think could happen is that the Lions use their second pick on a player to fill another need, like taking Maurkice Pouncey to be the LG, and then trade back up into the lower part of the second round to take someone like Devin McCourty, Brandon Ghee or even Perrish Cox.

Of those three, I am most intrigued by Perrish Cox. He is tall (6'2") but showed really fluid hips and pretty good coverage skills at the Senior Bowl. The Lions would probably have to give up their first fifth round pick to move back up, but if he's there near the 58th pick or so, I'd do what I could to get him.

+1 on this strategy. It sure would make it easier to see the Lions draft some semi-need like Jahvid Best with the #34 if this strategy was employed. I also am really intrigued by Perrish Cox. I wonder why he isn't more highly regarded?

_________________"With the second pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Detroit Lions select Calvin Johnson, WR from Georgia Tech."

My favorite day ever as a Lions fan.

Somehow landing the Ndamo-nator would be the second best day ever.

February 20th, 2010, 4:51 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Im not very familiar with Perrish Cox. Apparently he's a pretty good corner? Would he be an immediate starter?

Also, how is Jahvid Best in terms of speed?

I wouldnt be disappointed by drafting Maurkice Pouncey, especially if he can immediately fill our LG spot. Would he be switched to center eventually?

February 20th, 2010, 5:21 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

kdsberman wrote:

Im not very familiar with Perrish Cox. Apparently he's a pretty good corner? Would he be an immediate starter?

Also, how is Jahvid Best in terms of speed?

I wouldnt be disappointed by drafting Maurkice Pouncey, especially if he can immediately fill our LG spot. Would he be switched to center eventually?

Cox, as I said, is one of the taller corners available, and he's got some bulk as well, coming in at about 210 lbs. There has been some question about his speed, but I think top speed is over rated for corners. I am interested more in their back pedal, their ability to change direction, and their reaction once the ball is thrown. Cox displayed good skills in all of those at the Senior Bowl practices.

There are some off-field issues with Cox, I believe regarding a bar fight. It was one incident, and from what I gather there is some question as to the level of his involvement. From everything else I gather, he's a pretty normal guy otherwise.

Best has good top speed, but is not a big back. He's also had injuries just about every year he played in college, including the concussion he got at the end of this last season that put him out for a while.

As for Pouncey, he isn't one of the big road graders like Ducasse or John Jerry, but he's a great technician with decent size (around 315 lbs) and can play three positions, possibly four. He has the height and size to play RT in a pinch. I could see him replacing Raiola eventually.

I'm not all in favor of the Lions taking a back at #34. As much as I know they need one, I don't think Dwyer or Best are worth that pick, and I think both Spiller and Matthews will be off the board by then. If Matthews falls, he'd be a strong consideration. Otherwise I'd prefer they got a CB or OG at 34, then wait to get a big RB later, like Blount or Anthony Dixon.

February 20th, 2010, 7:31 pm

Killwill25

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:42 pmPosts: 2422Location: Brooklyn, NY

I'm concerned about Best's durability at the next level. I'm really starting like that big back out of Mississippi State, Anthony Dixon

Tier I: Gaping Hole, no starting quality player
Tier II: Upgradeable, average quality starter
Tier III: Stopgap, can get by for the time being

Tier I
1. Shutdown CB - Maybe not even shutdown. We just need a legitimate starter or 2.
2. Premier Pass Rusher - Someone like Peppers/Super Mario/Freeney. All the great teams have one. Lions haven't had one since Porcher.
3. Left Guard - Line is only as good as it's weakest link. And Stafford was banged up, and Kevin Smith was too because of the chink in the armor.
4. No. 2 Wide Receiver (and slot while where at it) - It's like the mirror image of the secondary. One good player, and a bunch of corpses.

Tier II
1. Running Back - This would've been third tier if Smith didn't tear his ACL.
2. Defensive Tackle - Hill is one answer. Now he needs a partner in the trenches.
3. Safety - And Delmas needs one in coverage.

Tier III
1. Left Tackle - Personally I think this is a hole. But every coaching staff that comes in loves Backus.
2. Right Tackle - I think Cherilus is in a do or die year. Unfortunately I think he's gonna die.
3. Center - See Left Tackle. Insert Raiola.
4. Linebackers. Levy has a future here. And maybe Sims too. But depending on what happens with Julian Peterson, this might be worse off.

Obviously though, the strategy in the draft will NOT be need based. It's BPA all the way. Suh and to a lesser exent McCoy is in a unique situation to help the biggest holes on our team by virtue of their impact from a different position. They can provide a pass rush from the interior. And with the pressure, it makes whoever is in the secondary's job easier. It's kind of funny that Suh had better coverage stats than our entire secondary. But that will help with his knack for getting his hands into passing lanes if he is the pick.

As Ive said before I'm confident the Lions will take a CB in the first 4 rounds whether it be Robinson/Wilson at 34 or maybe McCourty/Murphy/Ghee/Warren at 66, depending on who's still there, and if it jibes with there talent board. After the 3rd round the talent level for corners really starts to drop, but that doesn't mean they can't get a talented kid to develop in the later rounds. I believe (and hope) the Lions stay relatively true to the philosophy of BPA. Why make a reach on a CB at 34 if you've got a DE, OL, LB, or RB rated higher on your board? I am totally against the idea of trading up from any of our spots, and prefer to let the draft come to them. We have too many holes to be packaging multiple draft picks to move up. In fact I fully expect the Lions to be hoping to trade down at the top of the 2nd unless there is someone there they didn't expect to see.

Liontrax, I agree with you that they shouldn't trade up, but I've thought of one scenario where they could do it. What if they traded back a few spots from #34 for an extra 4th? They could then trade their 3rd plus one of the 4th rounders to move up into the late 2nd round. That's one of the few situations I would do it since I don't want to see them lose any picks this year.

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February 21st, 2010, 2:47 am

liontrax

#1 Overall Pick

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1543Location: Wolverine, Mi.

slybri19 wrote:

Liontrax, I agree with you that they shouldn't trade up, but I've thought of one scenario where they could do it. What if they traded back a few spots from #34 for an extra 4th? They could then trade their 3rd plus one of the 4th rounders to move up into the late 2nd round. That's one of the few situations I would do it since I don't want to see them lose any picks this year.

I could see them moving back up in your scenario, if it was for a player they really wanted. Someone who they felt was what they wanted for there system and knew he wouldn't be there at 66. I just don't like combining picks to trade up in a year where the draft is so deep. Using the current talent board ratings from NFLDRAFTSCOUT.COM (this is just for an example) these corners could be available from mid 2nd to mid 4th.
41 5 Kyle Wilson CB Boise State 5-10 190 1-2 up 4.42
48 6 Kareem Jackson CB Alabama 5-11 192 2 same 4.50
54 7 Devin McCourty CB Rutgers 5-11 186 2 same 4.47
63 8 Chris Cook CB Virginia 6-2 212 2-3 up 4.54
70 9 Perrish Cox CB Oklahoma State 5-11 189 2-3 same 4.44
79 10 Syd'Quan Thompson CB California 5-09 182 2-3 down 4.49
85 11 Jerome Murphy CB South Florida 6-1 191 3 same 4.48
93 12 Amari Spievey CB Iowa 6-0 190 3 same 4.53
97 13 Brandon Ghee CB Wake Forest 6-0 189 3 down 4.45
107 14 Donovan Warren CB Michigan 6-0 185 3-4 same 4.42
108 15 Javier Arenas CB Alabama 5-09 195 3-4 same 4.57
112 16 Joshua Moore CB Kansas State 5-11 185 3-4 same 4.44
As much as I like the idea of the Lions getting Devin McCourty, I don't know that I would want to give a top 3rd plus a 4th to do it if there were still a lot of good corners on the table. If a run on CB's occurs in the 2nd then you might want to do something. I was watching NFL network the other day when Charley Casserly said that he's been told by GM's and scouts that this years draft could be the most talented since 83. If that truly is the case then I want to hold onto my picks.

February 21st, 2010, 10:04 am

yostevo

Heisman Winner

Joined: March 28th, 2005, 7:50 pmPosts: 821Location: Burbs of De-town

m2karateman wrote:

Let's get something straight here guys...the question is what is the Lions greatest need. I believe that it is CB, above anything else. However, I NEVER said that the Lions should take a CB in the first round, did I.....DID I?? No, I think not.

Just for clarity sake m2k, I wasn't inferring that you wanted a CB with our #1 pick. I fully understood what was being asked. We were being asked to rank our team's needs. I still say it's the DL for the previously mentioned reasons that the DL make CBs better moreso than the other way around. If there's a need for both, and there is, DL is simply a more important positon to solidify.

If there's a need for both, and there is, DL is simply a more important positon to solidify.

To me, though, it depends on the degree of need. If you are that bad in one area of your defence that other teams can pretty much score at will, then you will lose games no matter how good the remainder of your team gets.

It seems like we are pretty much at that position with our secondary. If you plugged our defensive backs into the Colts or the Saints, I think you'd see those teams drafting in the top 10 rather than going to the SB.

So whilst the DL might be a more important area than the secondary generally, when things get this bad in the secondary I think things maybe switch around ...

Having said that, when things are this bad with the team generally, I can see the BPA approach throughout fits better. But to me, that approach has got to be tempered to some degree by the need to net us some decent defensive backs. If we don't manage that (given the time it can take for rookies to bed in) no matter how good the rest of the team gets this off season and the next, we're not going to become a team that can challenge for the playoffs within the next 3 years.

February 22nd, 2010, 7:38 am

Stallion

Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: October 15th, 2005, 12:45 pmPosts: 1834

I think the secondary should be a higher priority than the line. The secondary is so bad we can't even think about Blitzing which seriously hamstrings Cunningham's way of calling defenses.

_________________2011 Adopted Lion: Rob Sims/Looking for a side job at I.H.O.P because he can't stop making pancakes.

February 22nd, 2010, 11:59 am

jomo269

NFL Team Captain

Joined: January 27th, 2005, 9:12 pmPosts: 1610Location: Midland, MI

If we move Peterson to DE, draft Suh or McCoy with our 1st, the best available corner with our 2nd and a guard with our 3rd, I think that it would be a decent draft.