The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

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The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

We all agree that Joe Flacco is not in the highest echelon of QBs in the NFL, a place reserved for six players at the moment. However, I think that part of the reason why Joe is lumped in a group with so many so-called 'interchangeable' QBs is, because some understate the level of difficulty involved with what Joe has accomplished.

First off, he was drafted into the AFC North. Every QB gets hurt in this division. Yet, Joe Flacco has not missed a single game. It all starts with being on the field and I don't believe that many QBs would be able to sustain the hits that are delivered in this division and not miss a single game, in almost five years. Joe's durability is probably the most understated aspect of his quality, when you talk with those who see him as an average QB. Just look at how many QBs just can't stay healthy. Matthew Stafford. Jay Cutler. Their lack of durability is holding their teams back from taking full steps forward and after a while, they will be back to the drawing board. Not only has Joe not had much of a better offensive line than Cutler, but he's had it in a not so ideal division for the problem. Yet, he has remained healthy.

Second, Joe Flacco, as I have said several times, was not given the reigns to this offense from jump street. He was not allowed to sling it and was not asked to become the top QB in the league. The environment he was drafted into, did not lend itself to developing top quality QBs. It was asked of Joe to take a back seat to the defense and rush offense, only coming 'off the bench, cold', sort of speak, to make crucial throws here and there.

Greg Cosell talked, in detail, about the level of difficulty for Joe Flacco in this offense, about how he is constantly asked to make pinpoint throws in the smallest of windows, compared to other QBs and other offenses.

Third, Joe Flacco has provided stability. Once upon a time, 'Joe Flacco won, because of the defense'. With injuries all over the place and rushing yards piling up at a record pace for this team's defense, Joe has led this team to an 8-2 record. Joe has also done a good job of not being the reason the Ravens lose a game. In almost five full years, there aren't five games that we can look back to and honestly say that 'he' was 'thee' reason why we lost. The reality is that Joe Flacco is not going to lose you a game and that is far more valuable than some want to acknowledge.

At the same time, he has shown that he can step up in the big games and win you those games. Do you think a Matt Ryan, would have been able to orchestrate that drive against Pittsburgh last year, in their house? How about that drive against the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game? Ryan has had some clutch moments during the regular season, but he has not had to deal with Pittsburgh twice a year.

I've purposely name dropped along the way. You have guys like Stafford and Cutler, who can make the throws, much like Flacco, but aren't nearly as durable. You have guys like Ryan who can put up the stats, but who haven't shown that clutch playoff nature. A week after Ryan threw the interception that ended his debut against Arizona, Joe was leading the game winning drive against the Tennessee Titans in their house. Then, you have other QBs who might have the durability, but who might not have the arm.

Joe has all of those qualities and an even brighter future ahead of him. In all honesty, we could only name six or so QBs who could legitimately come here, under the same circumstances (talent, system, division, culture) and be as successful.

It lends itself to the most important aspect of the game, the 'W'. However, it does not lend itself to the gaudy statistics that are attractive to some.

There have been other QBs in the past who have dealt with this. Ben, as I mentioned in another thread, dealt with it early in his career. He didn't put up the statistics, everyone raved about Rivers, while Ben put up the wins and made the plays in the fourth quarter. Before that, you had Brady and Manning. The Super Bowl would be the ultimate silencer, especially with the defense not looking as good as it once did. Here's to it happening in February.

"When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

I'm pretty sure Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan would have been at least as productive as Flacco's been and probably would have had as many wins as Flacco has had if not more. They would have probably looked statistically better IMO too, just not as statistically good as they've looked on their own teams, mainly because they'e had superior receiving talent overall than Flacco has had.

Look Flacco is good, and he is better than average, I will defend him to death when people say he's average, or say that this team can't win the SB with Flacco as the QB. But I will also say that Joe will never be good or consistent enough to be considered a top 5 QB in this league, and certainly shouldn't be paid like one until proven otherwise. He has good enough receivers to be a lot more productive than he has been this year on the road, he should be doing better because we've seen how good he can be at home.

like I always say, Flacco is in the Jay Cutler and Matt Shaubb league, good enough to win you a championship as long as you get some help on defense and in the run game, and have at least some talent at receiver. They will never be able to put up mass yards week in week out and win you games every week off their arms like what Brady has done for years now.

Also, Flacco has been a big reason why we've won games this year, just likes he's been a big part of the reason in the past. But lets not kid our selves here, none of our road games that we've won this year deserve to be credited to Joe, Joe has been down right awful on the road at times this year.

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

Originally Posted by The Excellector

First off, he was drafted into the AFC North. Every QB gets hurt in this division.

Do you have any statistical evidence to back up this claim? Playing in a division where two of the three opposing teams are completely non-competitive would seem to make things a little easier on Flacco.

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

I agree. I think what has not been said is the Flacco is a great fit for the Ravens. He is durable, dependable, and solid. I don't think any other QB in the league (except for Brady maybe) fits a team like Flacco does. I bet if you put Cassel, Cutler, Schuab, etc. to lead that team they don't have half the success he has had. I can't explain why, but for whatever reason. Flacco, despite his polarizing performances, seems to be the substance behind the team's success. He is in his element with the Ravens, and them with him.

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I'm pretty sure Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan would have been at least as productive as Flacco's been and probably would have had as many wins as Flacco has had if not more. They would have probably looked statistically better IMO too, just not as statistically good as they've looked on their own teams, mainly because they'e had superior receiving talent overall than Flacco has had.

Look Flacco is good, and he is better than average, I will defend him to death when people say he's average, or say that this team can't win the SB with Flacco as the QB. But I will also say that Joe will never be good or consistent enough to be considered a top 5 QB in this league, and certainly shouldn't be paid like one until proven otherwise. He has good enough receivers to be a lot more productive than he has been this year on the road, he should be doing better because we've seen how good he can be at home.

like I always say, Flacco is in the Jay Cutler and Matt Shaubb league, good enough to win you a championship as long as you get some help on defense and in the run game, and have at least some talent at receiver. They will never be able to put up mass yards week in week out and win you games every week off their arms like what Brady has done for years now.

Also, Flacco has been a big reason why we've won games this year, just likes he's been a big part of the reason in the past. But lets not kid our selves here, none of our road games that we've won this year deserve to be credited to Joe, Joe has been down right awful on the road at times this year.

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds

I'm not understanding this never part, do you think he's plateaued?

I don't think Flacco has quite hit his ceiling yet... I think his ceiling is unquestioned top 10 QB, with solid statistics every year, helping his team win a ton of game in the process. I don't think his ceiling is as high as the likes of Rogers or Drew Brees.

I'm not sure if Flacco will ever hit his ceiling in this offensive system though.

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I don't think Flacco has quite hit his ceiling yet... I think his ceiling is unquestioned top 10 QB, with solid statistics every year, helping his team win a ton of game in the process. I don't think his ceiling is as high as the likes of Rogers or Drew Brees.

I'm not sure if Flacco will ever hit his ceiling in this offensive system though.

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I'm pretty sure Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan would have been at least as productive as Flacco's been and probably would have had as many wins as Flacco has had if not more. They would have probably looked statistically better IMO too, just not as statistically good as they've looked on their own teams, mainly because they'e had superior receiving talent overall than Flacco has had.

Look Flacco is good, and he is better than average, I will defend him to death when people say he's average, or say that this team can't win the SB with Flacco as the QB. But I will also say that Joe will never be good or consistent enough to be considered a top 5 QB in this league, and certainly shouldn't be paid like one until proven otherwise. He has good enough receivers to be a lot more productive than he has been this year on the road, he should be doing better because we've seen how good he can be at home.

like I always say, Flacco is in the Jay Cutler and Matt Shaubb league, good enough to win you a championship as long as you get some help on defense and in the run game, and have at least some talent at receiver. They will never be able to put up mass yards week in week out and win you games every week off their arms like what Brady has done for years now.

Also, Flacco has been a big reason why we've won games this year, just likes he's been a big part of the reason in the past. But lets not kid our selves here, none of our road games that we've won this year deserve to be credited to Joe, Joe has been down right awful on the road at times this year.

And this is exactly what I am talking about. Stafford and Cutler can't stay healthy where they are. What makes you think they'd be as durable as Flacco has been, in this division? Otherwise, they wouldn't have a chance to pile up as many wins as he has. It's like we anoint QBs, because we see them light up the stat sheet once or twice. Stafford can't stay healthy and his record against teams with a winning record is poorest. His only playoff appearance, against the Saints, he threw picks trying to keep up with Brees. By the way, nobody here touches Johnson.

Cutler is a guy who could probably do more than Stafford, but he can't stay healthy. Furthermore, do you think that this team full of veterans would support Cutler's attitude? Which brings me to another undervalued quality: Flacco's character. As many times as Flacco's had chances to take shots at his teammates, he's never done it. That resonates in the locker room.

"When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I don't think Flacco has quite hit his ceiling yet... I think his ceiling is unquestioned top 10 QB, with solid statistics every year, helping his team win a ton of game in the process. I don't think his ceiling is as high as the likes of Rogers or Drew Brees.

I'm not sure if Flacco will ever hit his ceiling in this offensive system though.

No QB can hit his ceiling in this offense. Drew Brees flirted with a benching week in and week out under Cam despite having the best RB of our time behind him and the best TE in front of him. He left Cam Cameron's "tutelage" and became a HOF lock under a real NFL offense coordinated by a great offensive mind. If Brees looked like that under Cam, what could Flacco look like?

Joe Flacco has played to his ceiling at times this year like he never has before--at home vs. Cincinnati, at home vs. Oakland, etc. He did that calling his own plays out of the no-huddle, making his own adjustments at the line, controlling the offense--without having the albatross of Cam Cameron around his neck. What the Ravens need to do is find a way to do on the road, what they do at home. The difference I see is that they run the no-huddle uptempo offense at home, and the Cam Cameron run-run-pass-punt on the road. The difference is stark.

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

No QB can hit his ceiling in this offense. Drew Brees flirted with a benching week in and week out under Cam despite having the best RB of our time behind him and the best TE in front of him. He left Cam Cameron's "tutelage" and became a HOF lock under a real NFL offense coordinated by a great offensive mind. If Brees looked like that under Cam, what could Flacco look like?

Joe Flacco has played to his ceiling at times this year like he never has before--at home vs. Cincinnati, at home vs. Oakland, etc. He did that calling his own plays out of the no-huddle, making his own adjustments at the line, controlling the offense--without having the albatross of Cam Cameron around his neck. What the Ravens need to do is find a way to do on the road, what they do at home. The difference I see is that they run the no-huddle uptempo offense at home, and the Cam Cameron run-run-pass-punt on the road. The difference is stark.

You mean run run pass punt.... oh damn we don't get a first down running the ball so now we're going to ask Flacco to throw the ball over 40 times and lose another road game.

The "degree of difficulty" thing is really annoying, expecially when we're talking about the failures on 3rd and short. You watch other offenses and they have a designed screen to the TE, or bubble screen WITH BLOCKING, or a pick play with WRs coming out of a bunch, or crossing patterns off play action. I don't know if it's a problem with Flacco's short accuracy or quick decision making or just design of the offense, but I feel like Flacco is constantly being asked to execute a really difficult pass to just move the chains.

It makes sense to take advantage of Flacco's arm talent, but with the exception of Jay Cutler, I don't feel like other quarterbacks are asked to complete such difficult throws into tight coverage with no chance for YAC.

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

We have Yanda, Leach & Rice.
We have a middle of the pack running game.

We have Torrey, Boldin, Pitta, Jacoby, Rice.
We have a middle of the pack passing game.

Both look great at home, both look terrible on the road.
Which is why overall they are average.

How likely is it that these sets of players all just happen to be the type who all play great at home but lousy on the road? Was Boldin like that in Arizona?

So, if we discard that possibility then that leaves 3 others.

1) The O-Line plays well enough at home and not well enough on the road.
2) At home, the players, namely Joe, are running the offense while on the road, the coaches, namely Cam, are running the offense.
3) Both 1) and 2)

Re: The Level of Difficulty in What Joe Flacco has Accomplished/ The Passing League Mantra

Originally Posted by chicagoravensfan

The "degree of difficulty" thing is really annoying, expecially when we're talking about the failures on 3rd and short. You watch other offenses and they have a designed screen to the TE, or bubble screen WITH BLOCKING, or a pick play with WRs coming out of a bunch, or crossing patterns off play action. I don't know if it's a problem with Flacco's short accuracy or quick decision making or just design of the offense, but I feel like Flacco is constantly being asked to execute a really difficult pass to just move the chains.

It makes sense to take advantage of Flacco's arm talent, but with the exception of Jay Cutler, I don't feel like other quarterbacks are asked to complete such difficult throws into tight coverage with no chance for YAC.

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Exactly what Greg Cosell was talking about all of last year.

"When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"