Freeze Frame: Controlling The Conversation

Frame control is the sinew and gristle of inner game. The importance of owning the frame can’t be understated. It’s how the media gets you to believe their angle of the story, it’s how politicians demonize opponents and their constituents, it’s how academic shysters establish the bounds for acceptable debate, and it’s how experienced seducers communicate their higher status and unflappability to women.

A frame is a system of interpretation that an individual or group uses to understand a certain event/situation.

Frame is important in pickup, because it communicates the PUA’s mindset as well as the underlying psychology behind his words and actions. For example, Swinggcat advocates a “prizing” frame, whereby the PUA always assumes the girl is interested in him as the prize. In this frame, a chick can say, “I really like the tie”. The PUA can respond, “Thank you, slow down a little bit. At least buy me a drink before you hit on me like that.”

A funny example of re-framing is when Borat wears his famous swimsuit to the beach, and the reporter comments, “Borat, those trunks seem a little small for you”. Sasha Cohen pauses, and then promptly responds, “Ah… thank you!”. The reporter’s expression to contain a laugh thereafter was priceless.

[…]

“Framing”, [or frame control], in the context of media studies, sociology and psychology, refers to the social construction of a social phenomenon by mass media sources or specific political or social movements or organizations. It is an inevitable process of selective [ed: seductive!] influence over the individual’s perception.

In pickup, as with mass media, there are always certain levels of interpretation of a specific event that can be reframed based on frame control, and your emotions and conviction in your beliefs.

If you are not framing your conversations with women, you are leaving yourself vulnerable to hijacking by her hypergamous mating module. Power abhors a vacuum, and so does an undirected woman free to interpret anything you say in any way she sees fit. Framing a conversation in your favor is taking the initiative; failure to control or at least massage her perception of you exposes you to unfavorable reinterpretations of your attractiveness.

Maxim #45: Any conversation with a woman that is not explicitly framed by you to maximize your perceived status will lead to her forming a negative perception of your value over time.

I’ll give you an example from my own life. I was taking a girl back to my place, a new place I had just moved into. There were boxes and piles of junk everywhere. It looked like a bomb went off. I knew any girl would balk at the mess, and that if I was in any way defensive about it, our vibe would be killed.

When she walked through the door, her expression flashed a hint of disgust. In the living room, she hesitated to take off her coat.

“Is it always like this?”, she asked as she stepped backward a bit.

I wasted no breath explaining myself.

“The door’s right there, if you want to leave,” I said with an expressionless look, while holding out my hand in the direction of the door.

“No, no, I’m not giving you a hard time about it. I was just curious.”

We had sex later on top of a mattress doubling as a bookshelf.

It helped my frame that I was in a pensive mood when she came over. I was in no state of mind to impress a girl, and it showed. Had I explained that I had just moved in and was busy fixing the place up, or made apologies for the mess, she would have had mental room to reassess her attraction for me. Remember, girls don’t operate in a logical universe; they abide their emotions first and foremost. My calm, implicit dismissal of her negative frame and replacement with my own indifferent frame kept her attraction strong.

Here are some more examples of excellent pickup reframes. When girls ask me if I’m a player, I usually get the best responses from them by agreeing and amplifying (“oh yeah, the biggest, I hope you’re OK with harem duties”) or by accusing them of having a history falling for players, which has the benefit of oftentimes being true of girls who like to ask that question (“you’re one of those girls who has a thing for players, aren’t you?”).

wheneveer heartsiste turns his commensts ssocmcments of for exteded extended periods of time zlzozolzlzlz i always picture him with four or five fly honnies doevotiing all da hearatistsetes shareetists heartistse attention to dem when dey have their pants down pants off zlozozlzzozo

seeeee, a woman is prorgammed to get money from all men assetsts form all men, and pserm form one or two–“Heartisst & GBFM).

so if you give them attention, this is a form of payement, and they will eat all your atention and they can keep their pants on and then use thier pussy cpaital on other men to get the asshole’s attention lzozlzzozzl who they take their pants off, as without taking tehir pants off he ignores dem zozozlzozl

so you see heartsitse is a very nice guy when he is with the trhee fy honies givingthem oroagagssmmss pleasusres with teheir pussy pansts down lcockc lcickisisnsg zlzolzlzozozlzozol

while of course wearing now weairng

da gbfm patent-pending hazmat suit to be used for all ebernakkifeid ameinrnzaaa omenz over da egage of 19 and a half years zlzozlzooz

someetimss a nice gif for your mwoman is an orgasmssisnsnm orgasmss by your tongueueue tonguee zlzozozl zgoing down zlzlzlzlozol

but then you want to proeetect yourself from da gift dat keeps on giving!! da STDs they implant on yoru wifes buttocks and ginal regions in coolege to humilatee you with cockr rot zlzzozool

and when u go down on ana meeican american bernankifieid woman lzlzlzl be sure 2 have the following!!

Agreeing and amplifying on the messy apartment comment would have been effective too:

I actually was straightening up a little earlier. Sometimes it worse. But hey there’s the door if you like.

After she responds to that by qualifying herself, I would probably tell her “Actually, I’d just moved.” She’s already in your frame and you’re basically telling her you were messing with her, successfully.

[Heartiste: A lot of game concepts come from NLP, which in turn has borrowed from clinical psychology. There is rarely anything truly new under the sun, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Much wisdom in the ancient texts there is.]

What if the girl is getting the vibe that you ‘re moving too fast and tries to “frame” the conversation as more casual? Would you reframe back to seductive, since that would reinforce the problem? O go along for awhile and reinforce the new frame? Is it just hopeless at that point?

[Heartiste: If a girl starts hinting she wants friendship and she’s worried the direction you and her are taking, tell her “Whoa, you’re getting way too heavy. Lighten up.” Another tack: Call her bluff. “I’ve got enough friends. I don’t need any more.” Either way, don’t abide her frame.]

the rtririck is to alwya slways steer the conevertsaion ttowards moby a dick and the bill of men’s rights:

D A BILL OF MEN’S RIGHTS HOURSE REPOSLTUTION 11LLOZLL111

lzozllzllzl every man shall have the right to

1) a womenz who hasth been butthexed less than 4 times
2) said 4 times not being done in the same night nor two consecutive nights niether lzozlzl
3) said butthexing events not being secretly taped without her conthent (liek da ebeocnths like it for fun adnfd profit selling books wpowered publicit butthex poered publicicty book sales)
4) no woman shall have a right to her husbands assetts if he comes home and finds her banging the poolboy ontop of his ps3 controller, thusly damaging said controller lzozl that would suck
5) wehnu ask a women how many poeple she has been with it wil be law that she will have to verbally multiply her anser by 10, and then add at least half the ass cocking sesssions which still count as sexth in certain religions lzozlzlzl
6) no man shall be made to fund a pussy that it out banging biker drummer cock, nor shall any man be made to pay for past use of a pussy lzozlzlzlz

i think that if we can pass this men’;s bill of rights into law, 90% of marriages will last lzozl.zlzlzlzlzl lzozllz which is why the butthex congreth and fiat masters will rail against my sublime logic reason phsilophy and religion lzozlzlzzlwoards MOBY DICK lzozozozlzlzlzlzozl

Amazing how you manage to intertwine, simultaneously, the terminology of an attorney, while speaking of anal sex on top of a video game paddle, while attempted to sound as if you have down syndrome, also mixed in with the bill of rights.

Simply awesome. bravo.

If only this article had the same panache.

Frame control is outer game, not inner game.

Outer game is the words and actions you speak and do; while inner game is the mentality and inner thoughts that back this up.

I don’t mean to get caught up in semantics, but its an important point. What you spoke of in this article is outer game. Handling tests, reframing conversations, demonstrating outcome independence

dat is because i am an attoreney with downs sysndormememzzzmmz who is a videogame master hwhwile alsos beig very wary of gteteing buttehxxed by vdidoeogame cocontorroleoeorls or ebeoncthehssh in secteive tapings of buttehxixnxixnxi x

Heartiste said frame control makes you attractive, not omniscient. A healthy air of skepticism and honesty about the limits of your knowledge is also a frame, and given the complexity of the modern world, it’s probably the most correct one you can have.

You actually might be right about girls being more emotional and less logical. But it’s not so obvious that you could see it in one day. When I was younger I always thought that I’m more logical than most of the guys.

[Heartiste: Aspergers will do that to a girl.]

“[So sad.]”

Yeah, I know 😦

[You sound like you need a long, hard drilling. This asexuality thing is making you unpleasant company.]

I’m sorry. I try to be pleasant but I can’t do anything about this. I also doubt that asexuality is the main reason that makes me unpleasant.

[It’s one of them. Think about the men who don’t get laid. Not a fun group, all around. Same goes for women who, for whatever reason, haven’t had their holes plunged in eons. They are usually insufferably prudish, erratically ill-mannered, mean-spirited and/or frantically self-absorbed.]

Today’s game is based on science. Another game blogger noted that science will fly you to the moon, while religion flies you into buildings (while chasing those 99 virgins you never got in this earthly realm.)

There’s the cock carousel — where a woman takes a ride on one “horse” and quickly sees all the other options behind her.

Then there’s the biennial drilling that all women need to clean their emotional pipes out. If a gal goes 2 years without this cleansing, she signs up to Netflix, buys 2 cats, and joins a needlemaking MeetUp group.

What Heartiste is recommending is that she gets her long overdue drilling so she can return to normal.

A woman riding the cock carousel is banging more dudes in a year than the average spinster is doing in 10-20 years.

riding the cock carosel is different from abstaining from sex entirely. durr also obviously Maya is fun as hell, not annoying as hell. Its hilarious the way her words get molested by a clearly superiour mind.

Not sure about alpha, but having sex with someone decent can be a good thing, at least for a virgin suffering from misconceptions about sex. Although before she has sex, it’s best for her to read about sex (the facts) and about men’s nature, and then she’ll be more ready and not so scared of things like erections, losing bonding ability from just one man, being violated by sex, etc. Before you can have a husband and a good relationship, you have to learn how to handle a man… You don’t have to sleep with tons of men to learn that, but some reading and sex with one man might be better than being a confused/scared/ignorant 26-year old virgin waiting for a man of your imagination to come.

Well, you said sex without love is impossible for women, i think?.. You kind of gave me an impression of not being very knowledgeable, but it might also just be confusion of you with someone else (I know a few other girls who think strange stuff about sex and guys, it’s hard to keep track of who said what).

Yeah, I said that. I can’t explain it now, but I guess I thought that if I’m a woman and I couldn’t have sex without love then this should be true for all women … Well, I still believe that generally, women can’t fuck like men do, but I accept that there can be some exceptions (e.g. cuckoldry).

“… it’s best for her to read about sex (the facts) and about men’s nature, and then she’ll be more ready and not so scared of things like erections, losing bonding ability from just one man, being violated by sex, etc. …”

What do you suggest I should read about sex? What do you mean by ‘being violated by sex?’

I’m unexceptional in this area, but I had sex with no love, which later developed into love (it was a win-win for both of us too). I can’t “fuck like men”. Not my thing. I think many women are similar to me… Judging by what women do.

I might have made too many assumptions about you btw, but I know many girls who remind me of you. Virgins, seem kind of innocent and since they never had proper relationships or sex, they don’t know about real sex or how men really are… I was like that too, which is where this idea of “being violated by sex” came from, not you. Other girls I know also seem to think like that. Other things they think is stuff like “since vaginal sex gives no orgasms to the woman, it’s all about the man’s pleasure and not worth having, since I can masturbate and get orgasms on my own anyway”. So maybe you don’t think all that stuff. You wouldn’t be too naive after being here for so long. I guess what helped me get more knowledge was reading a bunch of sex-info books from my library, and some GirlsAskGuys type forums to see what men think, but not all of it is true and I had to piece all of it together and compare it. But I like “the Myth of Male Power” by Warren Farrell. Gave me a new view on men. Having a relationship also gave me some knowledge. This site is also good, but it creates desperation and anxiety in women, and that is a downside of it.
Because of my own experiences, I thought it would be better to know men and sex a little to clear up your mind, before jumping into marriage, to avoid nasty surprises and all that. I’m not entirely sure it would help you specifically, but it did work for me.

And if more women were like emma, this place wouldn’t be filled with anger and resentment.
If you take away the psychopaths, rapists and serial killers, most men are vulnerable in front of a sweet decent woman.

Effective frame control involves disrupting the fundamental assumptions (the “interpretation of events”) behind her comment and replacing these with your own. It needs to be done with conviction.

…And while your comment clearly does the later, it doesn’t really replace her original assumptions (or wisecrack) at all about the mess being permanent. It frames her comment as a sort of bluff (which you call) but doesn’t negate the assumption behind it. Why not say something instead that actually replaces her frame and doesn’t just reject her for it.

[Heartiste: There are many ways to reframe. One of them is to utterly destroy a competing frame by refusing to acquiesce to its tacit message. In this case, I am relaying an example that demonstrates the effectiveness of a reframe that doesn’t even directly address the underlying assumptions. SInce I was in no mood to parry frames, a simple nuke of her frame was all that was needed. See: Don Draper, for plenty of examples of this.]

I tend to apologize to new women for a possibly disorganized apartment as I’m unlocking the door.

The fact that I can say I “tend” to do this makes me realize I’m not doing too badly with women, regardless of whether this is a mistake.

But seriously,

1. It sends the signal that I’m supposedly not a player who would expect a female guest, which could prevent LMR/ASD.

2. It gives me an excuse to sometimes have the new woman stand outside the door while I quickly go in and hide the nightgown of another woman (who tends to hang this near the entrance as a claim flag for informing other women who might enter).

But, apart from this minor disagreement, the above post on frame is destined to become a classic.

Always police any hairs a woman might leave in the sink or bathtub, long before the possibility of another woman seeing them (for this you cannot wait until the last minute like a nightgown or hairbrush because you’ll forget).

Does anyone have other great advice on not getting caught out on the presence of other women in your pad? And, no, it’s often not a DHV for them to find direct evidence of other women in your pad.

[Heartiste: Stray hairs are gross, but I’ve found that a conspicuously misplaced earring or bracelet works wonders to capture a girl’s interest.]

I tend to be cautious, not because i’m afraid to be confronted (on the contrary, preselection is unobtainium to hamsters), but because if a girl notices evidence that you’re a player, she will rightfully insist on condoms.
I prefer to use condoms at my discretion.

You have to purchase the GBFM Hazmat Suit first, unless you don’t mind drinking from the pilsner glass full of splooge from the 50 guys who butthexed and desouled her assouled before you, and then pre-order the infamous GBFM asset-insurance parachute if you’re contemplating getting into an airplane that crashes 50% of the time.

yah over 50% of marigageies end in divorce and many more are unhappy as da man of the house has to deal with the smelly other male sememn on his wifes buttockckcsss and in her ananalhole as teheda ebenrnakififiers are out in force these daysysyz alslzolzozllz.

over 75% of divrcoesess are initiated by womenz as they are assocked in cocllege by apalhas and then trained by their assocking professores to assockingg their hunsdnabands in divocreec oxurt and transfer his assettss assssetttss ass setes lzozlzooz to da central beenrkekenan anakekkrks zlzlzozolzozo

over 90% of teh womenez awho are eudctaed in da fmeinsisint assockcing prorgams and trianed to be more loyal to anal tingles and ginal tinegels and the fed and money rather than god family children men chraceetrfter honro faith are einittiataing divrorce zlzozzozozoo

and susppoese you walk into the cock-pit of the plane and see the pilot banging your wife in her cock-pit zlozozl get it? lzozozozozooo, she still gets half of your assetsts and life on teh way down even thoug she is causing the plane to crash by banging the pilot in the cock pit who is bagnningh her in her cock pit women can let anyone into tehir cock-pit, and if you say boo, teh ebenrnakek alwas dictate that she gets your house car lzozzl carz house pensisosns lzzozozlzlo to fund her future assocking sessisosnsnsonso

one reason the neocons do not like prosstitution is that it is fairieer than todya’s marriage as in proosstititioj one does not have to pay for past use of a pussysysys nor anthususustshsh zlzoozlzolzozozozlzlz

speaking of givig gifts someetimss a nice gif for your mwoman is an orgasmssisnsnm orgasmss by your tongueueue tonguee zlzozozl zgoing down zlzlzlzlozol

but then you want to proeetect yourself from da gift dat keeps on giving!! da STDs they implant on yoru wifes buttocks and ginal regions in coolege to humilatee you with cockr rot zlzzozool

and when u go down on ana meeican american bernankifieid woman lzlzlzl be sure 2 have the following!!

did i say bernankified elites were not government? no i didn’t. bernanke, geithner, etc are all goldman alum. govt and private enterprise walk hand in hand on this.

OWS as a general movement isn’t protesting capitalism, its protesting the corruption of it through rampant corporate greed and a manipulated plutocracy. but you tea party types can’t get it through your thick skull that governments never operate in a vacuum, that they dance to the strings of their corporate puppet masters.

Wow, timely. Have been searching for an article like this a lot for the past couple weeks because i’ve found it’s hard to pin down exactly what it means by “keeping your frame” (other than keeping your “cool” so to speak).

Thanks for the resource. I tend to use a lot of agree and amplify to keep my frame. I think my biggest enemy to my frame actually isn’t other’s competing frames anymore, because i’ve gotten better at defusing shit tests and the like. The biggest enemy is myself, if I end up speaking long enough i’ll say something that breaks it (e.g. I might apologize for that messy apartment even if she didn’t say anything).

The frame wrong can be dangerous in real life. The nuclear event at Three Mile Island was made much more serious by the operators deciding (erroneously) that the plant was in certain condition and responding with that wrong condition in mind.

They ignored substantial evidence to the contrary and the consequence was a partial meltdown.

What saved them was a new crew chief walking in a 8 am, looking over the situation and turning back on a specific pump that the night crew had decided was making matters worse – in theiir frame but not in reality.

The lesson to learn is to not get too locked into a hasty diagnosis and always test your frame.

A case – is “she” really a “she?” Or a TV? (I live near San Francisco!)

The thought of worrying about frame becomes unpalatable once you reach a certain level of masculinity.

For example… When you’ve got a great LTR and you have a few on the side, meeting new women isn’t really a big deal. If you lose one of your side pieces, another one tends to fall into line as you have extra free time. The fact that you don’t give a fuck about new gals you meet pretty much sets your frame perfectly. Always get more sex than you actually want.

Or, if you have plenty of customers and you’re making good cash, meeting new clients isn’t a big concern. If you lose one, no big deal — you’ve been making enough extra cash to waltz through any minimal loss. Always make more money than you actually spend.

The same is true with peers/colleagues — losing one over a difference of opinion is not a big deal.

The issue with worrying about frame is the act of being concerned with it almost tends to clutter up how you act. Too much worry is easily read by women. When you actually don’t give a fuck about a new gal, a new client or a new friend, you truly have won the battle over frame presented.

One Awsome example of frame control, that really opened my eyes to the power of the concept, I saw in the movie ‘Mesrine: Killer instinct’. Well worth watching if you like to study super alpha’s.
In the scene the well dressed Mesrine and his associates are robbing a wealthy frenchman in his home when the frenchman and his wife unexpectidly come home.
Mesrine confidently goes to meet them and explaines that they are dectives from the police department investigating the robbery at their house.
his frame is perfect and the couple buys it.
‘Catch me if you can’ with leonardo decaprio is basically a whole movie on frame controle, also well worth watching.

It must be stressed that one of the most important aspects of game is to game your girlfriend/wife, and not lose your edge. It’s MORE important than gaming new pussy, b/c a LTR is growing stale, by definition.

It is grossly overlooked BC ITS “NOT NEEDED”. This is why its more like insurance, you don’t even know if its working, b/c you’re already fucking her. This is just all for good measure.

I have taken this to a new level. It is so counterintuitive, yet is pure gold. I am increasingly bold about talking about my past. I glorify past conquests. I made it damn clear that I can and will get laid again, if this ends. All in such a laid back, matter of fact manner. I engage with random women on the street, right in front of her face.

This topic should be addressed more here. It really is the MAJORITY of game, b/c guys with game eventually settle into serial relationships, since they are able to drum up options. Eventually, pickup is more of a chore than enjoying your new slampiece(s) at home.

Frame control is vital in work interviews as well. I realized the need to do this after bombing so many job interviews where they established the frame and made me jump through hoops like a trained poodle. Problem is they expect you to talk about yourself, and next thing you are a babbling fool looking like a complete braggart. To quote Ken Pederson in “Making it in High Tech Sales” : “he who reveals the most about himself loses”.

As I improved my consultancy selling, I learned to take control of the interview and keep it on task, which was the services I could provide them, and not answering nonsense personality questions or “scenarios” idiocy cooked up by some HR BA in Psychology.

Ya gotta be prepared to walk out if they press the “interview” shtick on you and are inflexible on the format. If that’s the case you’ve already lost. Protect your dignity and split. Not surprisingly, pulling the “rejection” routine on them often works just like with women. (Like a carpenter I once hired who said “Maybe you don’t need my services”. A real pro.)

I like this idea. Probably want to apply it in my own life.
It’s a bit awkward because I don’t always know who I want to “pretend” to be; not certain that confidence is always the best approach to make a good impression. But it might be fun to play with.

Mark 12:13-17:
“13 Then they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Him in order to trap Him in a statement. 14 They came and said to Him, “Teacher, we know that You are truthful and defer to no one ; for You are not partial to any, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to pay a poll-tax to Caesar, or not? 15 “Shall we pay or shall we not pay ?” But He, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, “Why are you testing Me? Bring Me a denarius to look at.” 16 They brought one. And He said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this ?” And they said to Him, “Caesar’s.” 17 And Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they were amazed at Him.”

Which is why I’m praying tonight for that cocksure attitude that gives birth to the reframe.

No matter how passionately she believes in climate change or cheers for the Patriots, any lengthy discussion about public policy or sports or any other controversial or banal topic will sap the moisture from her tang like a high-efficiency tampon. Instead, keep the frame light and fun. This is easier to do if you don’t take the girl seriously – and you shouldn’t. BE DILIGENT! If a girl starts sabotaging the dialog by heading down some conversational or boring sniper’s alley, take the initiative and change the topic yourself. I once did this while gaming a German girl (7) at a wedding party. She began talking about something boring, so I cut her off with a rude “whatever” and immediately started talking about something fun. A flash of surprise betrayed her emotions; she was clearly taken aback by my abruptness. But the gambit helped. Had I let the frame devolve into some boring domain I wouldn’t have been balls deep 2 hours later

2. Skillfully use sexual innuendo during the attraction phase

Fear of sexual herassmeat suits and the desire to avoid the corporate HR queens have rendered millions of men unwilling and/or incapable or using effective sexual innuendo. Not only will girls who are worthy of your time appreciate your boldness, but it’s also a litmus test to see how receptive she is to your game. If she’s frigid or acts offended, no biggie, just eject at the next natural opportunity. I once used sexual innuendo to devastating affect on an American female coworker (6.5). During lunch I sent her a sexually ambiguous text. That text led to a dozen or so more texts that afternoon and culminated in post-work three-holing at my place a few blocks away. The best part is that this girl was the prototypical East Coast ballbuster who would be expected to run to the HR queens at the first sign of impropriety. I swear, the harder the front, the softer the armor.

Result: Huge smile on her face and texted during the rest of the work day. Dinner/drink date the same night with lots of thigh rubbing, kiss close, and plans for a future date. She later confided in me that I was one of only two guys at work to have hit on her. Understandably, it makes sense not hit on HR types (their famous for the cuntery), but in another sense it does because they will be the most avoided and therefore receptive of daring male attention.

Dear Chateau, I have a related question: how to respond when all of a sudden in the middle of nice and playful conversation girl asks “whadda you want?” I don’t know why but it sends my brain into quan
tum loop and this results in me losing frame control.
Thanks.

Riff Dog
Her – “Is it always like this?”
Me – “It had better not be when I get back in about an hour. Cleaning supplies are under the sink.”

—

@riffdog

heartiste’s original answer,

“the door is right there if you want to leave”

is better for several reasons:

1. the original answer does not address the messiness topic — that is, it doesn’t jump into her frame.

2. “the door is right there” calls her out on her aggression and completely smashes her frame with a stronger frame of “i don’t care if you leave or stay”.

3. by snipping her thread and replacing it with his own thread, he has just dominated the interaction, and proven his social superiority — all the while being unreactive and indifferent (“expressionless look”).

4. jumping into her frame by addressing the messy room — even to agree and amplify and “pretend” to boss her around — is WAY too reactive and it is transparently obvious that she has gotten to you and that you are on your heels and in a defensive mode — AND that you want her to stay because you are coming back in an hour.

5. plus it is way too long. the person who talks more is the one who is investing more in the relationship, the one who is reacting more and working harder at keeping the interation going.

6. over the top, fake asshole game would probably just make her roll her eyes and see you as a pretender, or actually offend her and make her get angry and leave. negging involves push pull, not just flat out insults.

7. lovedrop has a theory, or at least an observation, that every girl he has fucked, at some point he has proven to her that he can walk away from her pussy. that is HUGE. girls love powerful men, and the greatest power you can have over a woman is the power to not need her. by saying “the door is right there”, he has not only cut off her frame, but proven to her that he wants her but does not need here. that is extremely attractive to women.

8. in contrast, some long winded story about how she is going to clean your apt? not only is out of left field, it is try hard and is “fake” punishment, not real punishment. if she judges you, you gotta punish her for real — with the threat of withdrawing your attention and radiant energy. that is the only real punishment that chicks are afraid of, losing the attention of an alpha male.

9. frame control is the essence of game, which is why i am giving this topic so much importance.

“If you are not framing your conversations with women, you are leaving yourself vulnerable to hijacking by her hypergamous mating module.”

It seems to me like the problem is more that you’ll be judged poorly by her status-judging module. I still don’t exactly understand what your argument is for the evolutionary psychology of a hypergamous mating module. I’m not saying I disagree, I’m just missing the precise evolutionary logic on how you think such a thing operates. If you could expand on that I’d be greatly appreciative.

Incidentally, I just finished a book called “On Intelligence” by Jeff Hawkins. Best laymans description of the exact nature of cognition and neuroscience I’ve ever seen. I don’t have much else useful to say about it at present, but anybody interested in that kind of thing should take a look.

“The door’s right there, if you want to leave,” I said with an expressionless look, while holding out my hand in the direction of the door.

A regular line used by women when I do something along what is said above is “OMG! You are so sensitive, sorry not trying to hurt your feelings” How would one play that off. The wrong way about is defending the fact that you are not sensitive..What’s a good response?

“Women: They had it over us: they planned much better and were better organized. While men were watching professional football or drinking beer or bowling, they, the women, were thinking about us, concentrating, studying, deciding – whether to accept us, discard us, exchange us, kill us or whether simply to leave us. In the end it hardly mattered; no matter what they did, we ended up alone and insane.”

Turns out Berlusconi isn’t as much of an alpha as you thought. A little prodding from Angela Merkel and the European financial industry and he immediately dances to their tune and steps down. A beta-ish unwillingness to fight back as the incompetent and corrupt troika that created this crisis imposes conditions on his people from abroad. The lesbian Icelandic prime minister Sigurðardóttir had bigger balls in defaulting and telling the European financial elite to piss off. Since talk has turned to shove we can now all see that Berlusconi was only playing an alpha on TV.

Riff Dog
Her – “Is it always like this?”
Me – “It had better not be when I get back in about an hour. Cleaning supplies are under the sink.”

—

@riffdog

heartiste’s original answer,

“the door is right there if you want to leave”

is better for several reasons:

1. the original answer does not address the messiness topic — that is, it doesn’t jump into her frame.

2. “the door is right there” calls her out on her aggression and completely smashes her frame with a stronger frame of “i don’t care if you leave or stay”.

3. by snipping her thread and replacing it with his own thread, he has just dominated the interaction, and proven his social superiority — all the while being unreactive and indifferent (“expressionless look”).

4. jumping into her frame by addressing the messy room — even to agree and amplify and “pretend” to boss her around — is WAY too reactive and it is transparently obvious that she has gotten to you and that you are on your heels and in a defensive mode — AND that you want her to stay because you are coming back in an hour.

5. plus it is way too long. the person who talks more is the one who is investing more in the relationship, the one who is reacting more and working harder at keeping the interation going.

6. over the top, fake asshole game would probably just make her roll her eyes and see you as a pretender, or actually offend her and make her get angry and leave. negging involves push pull, not just flat out insults.

7. lovedrop has a theory, or at least an observation, that every girl he has fucked, at some point he has proven to her that he can walk away from her pussy. that is HUGE. girls love powerful men, and the greatest power you can have over a woman is the power to not need her. by saying “the door is right there”, he has not only cut off her frame, but proven to her that he wants her but does not need here. that is extremely attractive to women.

8. in contrast, some long winded story about how she is going to clean your apt? not only is out of left field, it is try hard and is “fake” punishment, not real punishment. if she judges you, you gotta punish her for real — with the threat of withdrawing your attention and radiant energy. that is the only real punishment that chicks are afraid of, losing the attention of an alpha male.

9. frame control is the essence of game, which is why i am giving this topic so much importance.

OT: “Some would consider this bad news. We’d all like to think that basic capacities and abilities are irrelevant—it’s the egalitarian view of expertise,” Hambrick says. “We’re not saying that limitations can’t be overcome.” Still, no matter how hard you work, it may be what you’re born with or develop very early in life that “distinguishes the best from the rest.”

A lot of alpha frames often require acting strategically obtuse — “playing dumb” — in order to maintain enough plausible deniability about one’s intentionally excessive displays of cockiness. If a woman knows you possess some moderate amount of self-awareness/self-knowledge, then she’ll in many cases suspect that all of your confidence, whether crafted or authentic, might somehow have been carefully & artificially manufactured (and thus rather fragile). This is probably because genuine wisdom tends to foster humility, or at the very least a sense of it, in light of how relatively insignificant any single Man’s existence or knowledge is against a wide enough backdrop, a comparatively high ceiling, a maximally grand scale.

There are definite, observable penalties for exhibiting too much intelligence and understanding around chicks. A man should never assume that DHVing via, say, IQ-flaunting can’t backfire, or that usually it’s just bound to outweigh its overall cost.

One time recently, a girl I’d just met (at her work, got the digits, texted once or twice) texted me at random. As I was driving home and was curious, I stopped by (literally drive within 1,000 ft of where she works anyway) and asked her about it so I could feel her vibe (new to practicing game). She seemed cool, so I said I’d stop by tomorrow and plan something for the weekend (had to be done tomorrow because of logistics). That night, she texted me, saying she believed I had a dark secret. I’m thinking…”all right, shit test”. So I messed her around for an hour till I needed to go to bed. The next day, she actually asked me if I was a serial killer (among obvious shit tests). After that, she didn’t want to do anything. She told me that she’s “talking to someone”.

My question is…where exactly did I loose the frame? My (admittedly inexperienced) sense tells me that I shouldn’t have gone to see her that one night she random texted me…but I’m also thinking that we’re supposed to provoke shit testing, and that visit certainly did AND put me front and center in her mind.

My admission that I was actually an attic dwelling hunchback with a mysterious past did not seem to cut it as an appropriate response to the “dark past”. Your thoughts?

About 6 weeks ago at a party I met reasonably hot 7.5 slim, fit Asian air hostess at a party.

I gamed her, she gave me major IOI’s…I followed up, cocky funny, kino…set up drinks.

She flaked 3 hours before claiming she wasn’t feeling well.

My text, 5 minutes AFTER our previously arranged meet up:

“Oh just got this. if we meet up again you’re buying”.

She replied about saving up and meeting up.

Then nothing.

I sent trial text about halloween, nothing too big. She replied with some smarmy response, but not set up of another meet up.

I blew it off.

Then two nights ago, at a party I’m co-hosting she comes with her friends. I was with another woman. I also made a speech, spoke a foreign language, hung out with some artists and gave her a wink and a smile, but did not approach.

Then I left without acknowledging her with the other woman.

A day later, I get the following text:

Her: “You left without saying good bye. thought it was quite rude. hope u had fun. xx”

I haven’t replied. What if anything should I reply?

The point here is as this blog suggests, if you maintain control and the frame, they will reply.

How to convert this into some action is the next question…. Any acknowledgement is gonna be playing into her frame.

I’ve tried the ‘you treat next time thing’ when girls have flaked on me and it has always resulted in the girl never getting back to me. I think it is totally fair after you have made an evening available, planned a date, and offered to pay for it and the woman flakes last minute to expect some effort on her part if she wants a second chance. The women, on the other hand, seem to take it as an insult or a door shut in their face and never seem to respond. It’s not bad to call a girl out for flaking, but I suggest in the future you try something else if you really want to line up a second date.

As to what to do next with the girl it seems that you are not even sure that you want to go out with her. MY suggestion is that for now you work on building her attraction and then once she is really ready to go out with you decide if you want to go out with her. It will help you practice your game and leave you with more options down the road.

What to text? Something along the lines of…

“I had lots of fun that night. Of course, what night do I NOT have lots of fun?

[Heartiste: “you treat next time” is too precious an answer to a flake. it’s putting a positive spin on woman’s bad behavior. a better answer is simply: “gay”.]