So if you are stationed in a country where no Roman Catholic church is nearby, say within an hour’s drive, but there is a Greek Orthodox church near you, you can lawfully — according to the Catholic Code of Canon Law — attend their liturgical services and receive holy Communion, or confession, or the anointing of the sick, because all seven sacraments instituted by Christ are valid in the Orthodox churches.

I think the priest forgot to mention one thing: the Catholic would need to get approval from the Orthodox priest before receiving Communion; whether the Orthodox priest would agree to this, is another story.

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

So if you are stationed in a country where no Roman Catholic church is nearby, say within an hour’s drive, but there is a Greek Orthodox church near you, you can lawfully — according to the Catholic Code of Canon Law — attend their liturgical services and receive holy Communion, or confession, or the anointing of the sick, because all seven sacraments instituted by Christ are valid in the Orthodox churches.

I think the priest forgot to mention one thing: the Catholic would need to get approval from the Orthodox priest before receiving Communion; whether the Orthodox priest would agree to this, is another story.

That is what most folks miss. Some Catholics who become aware of this think they can just show up in an Orthodox Church and receive.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

I think the priest forgot to mention one thing: the Catholic would need to get approval from the Orthodox priest before receiving Communion;

Their canon law says nothing about that.

True. In fact, I don't believe we have any canons that tell Orthodox priests what they should or shouldn't do.

True, but do the canons state that the Catholic should ask permission of the Orthodox priest?

Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

I think the priest forgot to mention one thing: the Catholic would need to get approval from the Orthodox priest before receiving Communion;

Their canon law says nothing about that.

True. In fact, I don't believe we have any canons that tell Orthodox priests what they should or shouldn't do.

True, but do the canons state that the Catholic should ask permission of the Orthodox priest?

Well, I think it goes without saying that it would be wrong for a Catholic to claim to be Orthodox in order to receive.

As far as the possibility of a Catholic simply presenting himself/herself to an Orthodox priest for communion, in the hope that the priest will give him/her communion without asking, I think that would be wrong too -- although I had encountered Catholics who think it isn't (!). (Actually, I recall two different conversations about that on another website.)

A properly educated catholic would know better than to commune at an Orthodox Church.

"Properly educated"?

By whom?

I knew several Catholics who would imitate the Orthodox in such a way that the Orthodox Priest had no clue that they were not Orthodox. They would line up for communion, blend in with the regular parishioners, imitate them to the "t", and if the Priest asked him who their bishop was, they would give the first name of their Roman prelate and be given Holy Communion without any further questions. Sometimes the priest would come over to the newcomer during coffee hour and discover the truth from them or from their friends, but oftentimes, if the newcomer did not stay for coffee hour, this behavior would continue.

Logged

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

So if you are stationed in a country where no Roman Catholic church is nearby, say within an hour’s drive, but there is a Greek Orthodox church near you, you can lawfully — according to the Catholic Code of Canon Law — attend their liturgical services and receive holy Communion, or confession, or the anointing of the sick, because all seven sacraments instituted by Christ are valid in the Orthodox churches.

I think the priest forgot to mention one thing: the Catholic would need to get approval from the Orthodox priest before receiving Communion; whether the Orthodox priest would agree to this, is another story.

That is what most folks miss. Some Catholics who become aware of this think they can just show up in an Orthodox Church and receive.

Exactly. And the monthly paper missal found in Catholic pews (that I have seen) does not mention that a Catholic should have permission from the Orthodox Priest or the Orthodox Bishop.

Logged

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Except they are forgetting the part where most Priests and Bishops wouldn't administer the Sacraments to non-Orthodox Christians. Likewise, wouldn't most Traditionalist Thomas RC's not want to partake of our Eucharist?

Yes, I have seen other discussions about getting into line in an Orthodox Church for Communion, but stop and think of the word: Com-Union, or union with. Are the churches involved united in faith, the Orthodox faith? If your church is not in union with the one you are visiting, then your reception of Christ's Body and Blood condemns you. Maybe there is no canon law specifically about cross-communion, but how about the priest's ordination? Consider what is said and done in this quote from the goarch.org website, liturgical texts for the ordination of a priest:After the consecration of the Eucharist, the bishop places the body of Christ into the new priest's hands with the following admonition:Bishop: "Receive this Divine Trust, and guard it until the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, at which time He will demand It from you."

In the Antiochian liturgical text, found in the Hapgood liturgicon, the admonition by the bishop is a bit different, and a bit more stern:"Receive thou this pledge, and preserve it whole and unharmed until thy last breath, because thou shalt be held to an accounting therefore in the second and terrible Coming of our great Lord, God, and Saviour, Jesus Christ."

It is the priest's most sacred and basic duty to preserve the Body and Blood of Jesus, until He returns. Were I a priest or deacon, I would be VERY careful about communing anyone I wasn't sure of. Yes, yes, there have been discussions for years about allowing Catholics and Orthodox into each other's Communion lines. I have had arguments with prominent members of the Parish Council in a previous hometown, since we had Melkites and Maronites and Syriacs in town. Talk about total confusion! It seems to be a falsehood to commune someone with whom we are not in total union. Just sayin', I could be wrong.

A properly educated catholic would know better than to commune at an Orthodox Church.

"Properly educated"?

By whom?

I knew several Catholics who would imitate the Orthodox in such a way that the Orthodox Priest had no clue that they were not Orthodox. They would line up for communion, blend in with the regular parishioners, imitate them to the "t", and if the Priest asked him who their bishop was, they would give the first name of their Roman prelate and be given Holy Communion without any further questions. Sometimes the priest would come over to the newcomer during coffee hour and discover the truth from them or from their friends, but oftentimes, if the newcomer did not stay for coffee hour, this behavior would continue.

Wow, they should have spent an afternoon with my late Irish grandfather and they would never have tried that charade again. I went to Catholic high school and grew up Irish Catholic'ed on one side of my family. Both would have harsh things to say to those pretenders at your parish. What ever happen to good ol' Irish style Catholicism? did it get replaced with "I can do as I wish" Catholicism?

Interestingly this could be a new thread but there are many similarities between the Irish style Catholicism and Russian Orthodoxy. Neither have room for "what feels good for me works".

A properly educated catholic would know better than to commune at an Orthodox Church.

"Properly educated"?

By whom?

I knew several Catholics who would imitate the Orthodox in such a way that the Orthodox Priest had no clue that they were not Orthodox. They would line up for communion, blend in with the regular parishioners, imitate them to the "t", and if the Priest asked him who their bishop was, they would give the first name of their Roman prelate and be given Holy Communion without any further questions. Sometimes the priest would come over to the newcomer during coffee hour and discover the truth from them or from their friends, but oftentimes, if the newcomer did not stay for coffee hour, this behavior would continue.

Wow, they should have spent an afternoon with my late Irish grandfather and they would never have tried that charade again. I went to Catholic high school and grew up Irish Catholic'ed on one side of my family. Both would have harsh things to say to those pretenders at your parish. What ever happen to good ol' Irish style Catholicism? did it get replaced with "I can do as I wish" Catholicism?

Interestingly this could be a new thread but there are many similarities between the Irish style Catholicism and Russian Orthodoxy. Neither have room for "what feels good for me works".

These were "cafeteria" Catholics who were involved in the Ecumenical movement and in the Charismatic movement in Los Angeles. They sincerely believed, but they were sincerely wrong, that union between Orthodox and Catholics had occurred with the lifting of the anathamas in the early 1960s by the Pope of Rome and the EP.

Some of these folks were Eastern Catholics who had been rejected by their local Catholic Church, which told them to go back to the Orthodox Church. In fact, the local OCA parish told me that quite a few Eastern Catholics joined their parish that way and were part of their founding members.

By the way, the North Hollywood Roman Catholic Church of St. Charles Borromeo was teaching their parishioners back in the mid-1990s and earlier not to attend the Melkite Greek Catholic Church down the street as those folks were not considered to be Roman Catholic but Eastern Orthodox, and worse, that they would incur excommunication if they did attend that church. The Melkite Bishop was furious when he learned of this, and wrote a letter to Cardinal Mahony. I was a Melkite at that time and our entire parish was informed about this serious error. However, the problem continued, and a year later, a cradle born Melkite Catholic was confirmed at St. Charles Borromeo before her marriage. Then our parish learned that two Melkite Greek Catholics were given First Holy Communion and Confirmed even though they had received the Sacraments of Initiation at St. Anne in North Hollywood. The reason given for their participation in Roman Catholic sacraments: their parents would be given a discount in parochial school tuition.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 02:41:36 AM by Maria »

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The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

A properly educated catholic would know better than to commune at an Orthodox Church.

"Properly educated"?

By whom?

I knew several Catholics who would imitate the Orthodox in such a way that the Orthodox Priest had no clue that they were not Orthodox. They would line up for communion, blend in with the regular parishioners, imitate them to the "t", and if the Priest asked him who their bishop was, they would give the first name of their Roman prelate and be given Holy Communion without any further questions. Sometimes the priest would come over to the newcomer during coffee hour and discover the truth from them or from their friends, but oftentimes, if the newcomer did not stay for coffee hour, this behavior would continue.

Wow, they should have spent an afternoon with my late Irish grandfather and they would never have tried that charade again. I went to Catholic high school and grew up Irish Catholic'ed on one side of my family. Both would have harsh things to say to those pretenders at your parish. What ever happen to good ol' Irish style Catholicism? did it get replaced with "I can do as I wish" Catholicism?

Interestingly this could be a new thread but there are many similarities between the Irish style Catholicism and Russian Orthodoxy. Neither have room for "what feels good for me works".

These were "cafeteria" Catholics who were involved in the Ecumenical movement and in the Charismatic movement in Los Angeles. They sincerely believed, but they were sincerely wrong, that union between Orthodox and Catholics had occurred with the lifting of the anathamas in the early 1960s by the Pope of Rome and the EP.

Some of these folks were Eastern Catholics who had been rejected by their local Catholic Church, which told them to go back to the Orthodox Church.

In fact, the North Hollywood Roman Catholic Church of St. Charles Borromeo was teaching their parishioners back in the mid-1990s and earlier not to attend the Melkite Greek Catholic Church down the street as those folks were not considered to be Roman Catholic but Eastern Orthodox, and worse, that they would incur excommunication if they did attend that church. The Melkite Bishop was furious when he learned of this, and wrote a letter to Cardinal Mahony. I was a Melkite at that time and our entire parish was informed about this serious error. However, the problem continued, and a year later, a cradle born Melkite Catholic was chrismated at St. Charles Borromeo before her marriage. Then our parish learned that two Melkite Greek Catholics were given First Holy Communion and Confirmed even though they had received the Sacraments of Initiation at St. Anne in North Hollywood. The reason given for their participation in Roman Catholic sacraments: their parents would be given a discount in parochial school tuition.

Here we have Greek Catholic parishes across the street from the Roman Catholic churches in a few places. The Roman priests send an invitation from the GC priest to come attend lenten services. No one shows.Most Roman Catholics don't know anything about the Greek Catholic church. At my great aunt's funeral at the Greek Catholic church most of the people there were her Orthodox family and those that went Roman. Only the Greek Catholics from the parish got communion even though the priest told them that Roman Catholics could commune before he gave out communion.

Cafeteria Catholics? The only ones I have seen were at Greek Catholic parishes attempting to latinize it with their wants.I haven't really experienced what you describe. There was some crazy stuff with the last Latin Rite bishop but the new guy leveled it out. Still have girl altarboys but other than that it's pretty tame. But nothing like I see people talk about on the internet. Sounds like the bull against the Melkite parish is just a modern day version of what all the Slavic Greek Catholic churches here experienced 60-100 years ago. History repeats itself usually with different names and titles but the players and plot never really change.

A properly educated catholic would know better than to commune at an Orthodox Church.

"Properly educated"?

By whom?

I knew several Catholics who would imitate the Orthodox in such a way that the Orthodox Priest had no clue that they were not Orthodox. They would line up for communion, blend in with the regular parishioners, imitate them to the "t", and if the Priest asked him who their bishop was, they would give the first name of their Roman prelate and be given Holy Communion without any further questions. Sometimes the priest would come over to the newcomer during coffee hour and discover the truth from them or from their friends, but oftentimes, if the newcomer did not stay for coffee hour, this behavior would continue.

They're probably spies sent by the Vatican to infiltrate and subvert Orthodoxy .

Yes, I have seen other discussions about getting into line in an Orthodox Church for Communion, but stop and think of the word: Com-Union, or union with. Are the churches involved united in faith, the Orthodox faith? If your church is not in union with the one you are visiting, then your reception of Christ's Body and Blood condemns you.

But if Canon Law in the Roman Catholic Church allows for a Roman Catholic to commune in an Eastern Orthodox parish, then where's the problem (from the Catholic perspective)?

Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Yes, I have seen other discussions about getting into line in an Orthodox Church for Communion, but stop and think of the word: Com-Union, or union with. Are the churches involved united in faith, the Orthodox faith? If your church is not in union with the one you are visiting, then your reception of Christ's Body and Blood condemns you.

But if Canon Law in the Roman Catholic Church allows for a Roman Catholic to commune in an Eastern Orthodox parish, then where's the problem (from the Catholic perspective)?

That the Catholic perspective is not the only one that should be respected, and hence, as a guest, the visiting member from the Roman Catholic communion is bound to respect the prerogatives of the Orthodox Church and not receive there.

We have regular Catholic visitors to our liturgy, and this is never an issue with them. It seems that some people just want to do whatever they want, simply because their church says they can. If you're not in the Orthodox Church, it doesn't matter what your church says about visiting one. You come to our church, you follow our rules, most definitely including those rules about who can receive and who cannot.

Yes, I have seen other discussions about getting into line in an Orthodox Church for Communion, but stop and think of the word: Com-Union, or union with. Are the churches involved united in faith, the Orthodox faith? If your church is not in union with the one you are visiting, then your reception of Christ's Body and Blood condemns you.

But if Canon Law in the Roman Catholic Church allows for a Roman Catholic to commune in an Eastern Orthodox parish, then where's the problem (from the Catholic perspective)?

That the Catholic perspective is not the only one that should be respected, and hence, as a guest, the visiting member from the Roman Catholic communion is bound to respect the prerogatives of the Orthodox Church and not receive there.

We have regular Catholic visitors to our liturgy, and this is never an issue with them. It seems that some people just want to do whatever they want, simply because their church says they can. If you're not in the Orthodox Church, it doesn't matter what your church says about visiting one. You come to our church, you follow our rules, most definitely including those rules about who can receive and who cannot.

+1

Logged

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Yes, I have seen other discussions about getting into line in an Orthodox Church for Communion, but stop and think of the word: Com-Union, or union with. Are the churches involved united in faith, the Orthodox faith? If your church is not in union with the one you are visiting, then your reception of Christ's Body and Blood condemns you.

But if Canon Law in the Roman Catholic Church allows for a Roman Catholic to commune in an Eastern Orthodox parish, then where's the problem (from the Catholic perspective)?

That the Catholic perspective is not the only one that should be respected, and hence, as a guest, the visiting member from the Roman Catholic communion is bound to respect the prerogatives of the Orthodox Church and not receive there.

We have regular Catholic visitors to our liturgy, and this is never an issue with them. It seems that some people just want to do whatever they want, simply because their church says they can. If you're not in the Orthodox Church, it doesn't matter what your church says about visiting one. You come to our church, you follow our rules, most definitely including those rules about who can receive and who cannot.

Catholic Canon Law only deals with Roman Catholics. So if they say RCs may receive from the Orthodox, that is just what it is saying. Basically it makes clear that RCs are not excommunicated for participating in Orthodox Communion, as opposed to participating in an Anglican or Lutheran one. Now it wouldn't make a pronouncement binding Orthodox clergy to give the Eucharist to Catholics. Thats just silly and the Vatican isn't that stupid. They're just saying that there is nothing wrong for Catholics to receive from the Orthodox. Definitely the issue of whether the Orthodox would commune Catholics is up to the Orthodox and the Vatican knows that it is beyond their control. But it does happen. So for them just reassure their faithful that if that opportunity does arise, then there is nothing wrong with it.

Yes, I have seen other discussions about getting into line in an Orthodox Church for Communion, but stop and think of the word: Com-Union, or union with. Are the churches involved united in faith, the Orthodox faith? If your church is not in union with the one you are visiting, then your reception of Christ's Body and Blood condemns you.

But if Canon Law in the Roman Catholic Church allows for a Roman Catholic to commune in an Eastern Orthodox parish, then where's the problem (from the Catholic perspective)?

That the Catholic perspective is not the only one that should be respected, and hence, as a guest, the visiting member from the Roman Catholic communion is bound to respect the prerogatives of the Orthodox Church and not receive there.

We have regular Catholic visitors to our liturgy, and this is never an issue with them. It seems that some people just want to do whatever they want, simply because their church says they can. If you're not in the Orthodox Church, it doesn't matter what your church says about visiting one. You come to our church, you follow our rules, most definitely including those rules about who can receive and who cannot.

Catholic Canon Law only deals with Roman Catholics. So if they say RCs may receive from the Orthodox, that is just what it is saying. Basically it makes clear that RCs are not excommunicated for participating in Orthodox Communion, as opposed to participating in an Anglican or Lutheran one. Now it wouldn't make a pronouncement binding Orthodox clergy to give the Eucharist to Catholics. Thats just silly and the Vatican isn't that stupid. They're just saying that there is nothing wrong for Catholics to receive from the Orthodox. Definitely the issue of whether the Orthodox would commune Catholics is up to the Orthodox and the Vatican knows that it is beyond their control. But it does happen. So for them just reassure their faithful that if that opportunity does arise, then there is nothing wrong with it.

And that is the problem. That is why Orthodox Priests must guard the chalice with diligence.

Logged

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Yes, I have seen other discussions about getting into line in an Orthodox Church for Communion, but stop and think of the word: Com-Union, or union with. Are the churches involved united in faith, the Orthodox faith? If your church is not in union with the one you are visiting, then your reception of Christ's Body and Blood condemns you.

But if Canon Law in the Roman Catholic Church allows for a Roman Catholic to commune in an Eastern Orthodox parish, then where's the problem (from the Catholic perspective)?

That the Catholic perspective is not the only one that should be respected, and hence, as a guest, the visiting member from the Roman Catholic communion is bound to respect the prerogatives of the Orthodox Church and not receive there.

We have regular Catholic visitors to our liturgy, and this is never an issue with them. It seems that some people just want to do whatever they want, simply because their church says they can. If you're not in the Orthodox Church, it doesn't matter what your church says about visiting one. You come to our church, you follow our rules, most definitely including those rules about who can receive and who cannot.

Catholic Canon Law only deals with Roman Catholics. So if they say RCs may receive from the Orthodox, that is just what it is saying. Basically it makes clear that RCs are not excommunicated for participating in Orthodox Communion, as opposed to participating in an Anglican or Lutheran one. Now it wouldn't make a pronouncement binding Orthodox clergy to give the Eucharist to Catholics. Thats just silly and the Vatican isn't that stupid. They're just saying that there is nothing wrong for Catholics to receive from the Orthodox. Definitely the issue of whether the Orthodox would commune Catholics is up to the Orthodox and the Vatican knows that it is beyond their control. But it does happen. So for them just reassure their faithful that if that opportunity does arise, then there is nothing wrong with it.

And that is the problem. That is why Orthodox Priests must guard the chalice with diligence.

Fact is, there are Orthodox priests/bishops/parishes out there that commune Catholics.

If you do not want to believe me, that is okay. But I won't name them because already by this tone I know this will create a controversy and people will make it a big deal even though it has been happening for quite some time and because most people are oblivious to the fact, life happily goes on. But it does happen and I have talked to people who have attested to this.

In my view, Choy, the key is as you say: that the RCC would not dream of making rules which try to tell the Orthodox what they should do with RC visitors. Therefore, as we can assume that the RCC would not tell its communicants to disrespect the Orthodox by assuming that just because the RCC view says it would be okay to receive, then they can receive, then we must see that the RC visitor comply with the Orthodox rule and not even try it (and that they be refused, should they think somehow that they can receive). It really does not matter at all what the RCC says is okay for its communicants to do in an Orthodox church. It matters what the Orthodox say is okay to do, and the Orthodox say that only Orthodox may receive.

To the extent that anything else happens, that is between the priest, his bishop, and God, but I will tell you this: Knowing that any uncanonical/out the ordinary arrangement depends on local circumstances, and with the full knowledge of both bishops (e.g., Copts here in Albuquerque used to receive at the Greek Orthodox church before we had our own; now that we do, that arrangement is void), there is virtually no circumstance on earth in which a Roman Catholic should even consider receiving from an Orthodox priest, and no circumstance in which an Orthodox priest should grant that. Yes, yes...a traveling Roman Catholic stranded in the most remote Siberia, fine...but even then, that is entirely at the priest's discretion, and the more Catholics hear "but I know that some Orthodox allow Catholics to receive", the more they're likely to get the impression that it is just a matter of showing to the right priest or at the right time or whatever. It isn't, so please don't post your anecdotes that make it seem like it is. Heretics ought not treat the Orthodox Church as a some sort of Sacramental lottery.

In my view, Choy, the key is as you say: that the RCC would not dream of making rules which try to tell the Orthodox what they should do with RC visitors. Therefore, as we can assume that the RCC would not tell its communicants to disrespect the Orthodox by assuming that just because the RCC view says it would be okay to receive, then they can receive, then we must see that the RC visitor comply with the Orthodox rule and not even try it (and that they be refused, should they think somehow that they can receive). It really does not matter at all what the RCC says is okay for its communicants to do in an Orthodox church. It matters what the Orthodox say is okay to do, and the Orthodox say that only Orthodox may receive.

To the extent that anything else happens, that is between the priest, his bishop, and God, but I will tell you this: Knowing that any uncanonical/out the ordinary arrangement depends on local circumstances, and with the full knowledge of both bishops (e.g., Copts here in Albuquerque used to receive at the Greek Orthodox church before we had our own; now that we do, that arrangement is void), there is virtually no circumstance on earth in which a Roman Catholic should even consider receiving from an Orthodox priest, and no circumstance in which an Orthodox priest should grant that. Yes, yes...a traveling Roman Catholic stranded in the most remote Siberia, fine...but even then, that is entirely at the priest's discretion, and the more Catholics hear "but I know that some Orthodox allow Catholics to receive", the more they're likely to get the impression that it is just a matter of showing to the right priest or at the right time or whatever. It isn't, so please don't post your anecdotes that make it seem like it is. Heretics ought not treat the Orthodox Church as a some sort of Sacramental lottery.

I'm not trying to make it seem it happens all the time. I'm just saying, it does happen and we shouldn't pretend that it never happens.

Ironically, even with their blatant rejection and disregard for anything Sacramental, I've never seen a single Protestant visitor at my Church attempt to receive the Eucharist, whereas Roman Catholics have tried and were told they could not.

I think the priest forgot to mention one thing: the Catholic would need to get approval from the Orthodox priest before receiving Communion;

Their canon law says nothing about that.

It does:

Canon 844 (c.671 in the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches)

1. Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments to Catholic members of the Christian faithful only and, likewise, the latter may licitly receive the sacraments only from Catholic ministers with due regard for parts 2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and can. 861, part 2.

2. Whenever necessity requires or genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for the faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose churches these sacraments are valid.

3. Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned.

4. If the danger of death is present or other grave necessity, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or the conference of bishops, Catholic ministers may licitly administer these sacraments to other Christians who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and on their own ask for it, provided they manifest Catholic faith in these sacraments and are properly disposed.

5. For the cases in parts 2, 3, and 4, neither the diocesan bishop nor the conference of bishops is to enact general norms except after consultation with at least the local competent authority of the interested non- Catholic Church or community.

Exactly. And the monthly paper missal found in Catholic pews (that I have seen) does not mention that a Catholic should have permission from the Orthodox Priest or the Orthodox Bishop.

The missalette doesn't address Catholics receiving from Orthodox at all, only Orthodox receiving from Catholics.

For our fellow ChristiansWe welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ's prayer for us "that they may all be one" (Jn 17:21).

Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 § 4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 § 3).

Catholics cannot receive communion, under any circumstances, but are free to have some antidoran in many western parishes (though not all).

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"as [you've] informed us that respect chills love, it is natural to conclude that all your pretty flights arise from your pampered sensibility; and that, vain of this fancied preeminence of organs, you foster every emotion till the fumes, mounting to your brain, dispel the sober suggestions of reason. It is not in this view surprising that when you should argue you become impassioned, and that reflection inflames your imagination instead of enlightening your understanding." - Mary Wollstonecraft

So if you are stationed in a country where no Roman Catholic church is nearby, say within an hour’s drive, but there is a Greek Orthodox church near you, you can lawfully — according to the Catholic Code of Canon Law — attend their liturgical services and receive holy Communion, or confession, or the anointing of the sick, because all seven sacraments instituted by Christ are valid in the Orthodox churches.

It's very common answer given by Roman Catholic priests. It's interesting to me that they claim we're schismatics or heretics whose Church are not on the rock - st. Peter, but on the other hand, they claim it's better to commune in the Orthodox Church than to not receive at all (in the case of lack of Catholic church in the nearest area or life-threatening situation). But such advices come from different understing of the Church as the Body of Christ andthe Holy Eucharist. They focus more on the validity (I've read opinions of Roman Catholics who claim our Eucharist is of course valid, but celebrated unworthily, so we commit sin by communing in the Orthodox Church - and they not ), than unity with Church as the Body of Christ.

However, I know a Polish Roman Catholic couple who has received the Communion in the Orthodox Church in Russia. They were asked about the faith, and the priest has communed them (for him was more interestinf faith if they're Greek Catholics - in this case he wouldn't have communed them - or Roman Catholics)

« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 05:54:05 PM by Dominika »

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Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

Catholics cannot receive communion, under any circumstances, but are free to have some antidoran in many western parishes (though not all).

I attended the DL at an Antiochian Orthodox parish and several nice people brought me some antidoran - guess they saw me sitting out Communion, felt sorry for me and wanted to make sure I got something!

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"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

But such advices come from different understing of the Church as the Body of Christ andthe Holy Eucharist. They focus more on the validity (I've read opinions of Roman Catholics who claim our Eucharist is of course valid, but celebrated unworthily, so we commit sin by communing in the Orthodox Church - and they not ), than unity with Church as the Body of Christ.

Bingo. So they want to know that it would be okay from their side/they wouldn't be in trouble with their church, not whether or not it respects Orthodox teaching on the subject.

I am glad that the Catholics who come to our liturgies know better than to look at things in this manner. I would be very happy to find a Catholic priest who would advise his people similarly. (They must be out there, but they're apparently not the ones giving advice at most Catholic websites, where it seems like the Orthodox view, if it is mentioned at all, is something of an afterthought.)

Ironically, even with their blatant rejection and disregard for anything Sacramental, I've never seen a single Protestant visitor at my Church attempt to receive the Eucharist, whereas Roman Catholics have tried and were told they could not.

Why do you think that is? I know the Roman Catholic Church has this problem (of Protestants approaching). I have a friend on FB who posted pictures of her son receiving First Communion as he goes to a Catholic school. But she (and I assume the rest of her family) is openly Evangelical.

Catholics cannot receive communion, under any circumstances, but are free to have some antidoran in many western parishes (though not all).

I attended the DL at an Antiochian Orthodox parish and several nice people brought me some antidoran - guess they saw me sitting out Communion, felt sorry for me and wanted to make sure I got something!

It is quite a great gesture to make guests feel welcome. Although our priest has asked the parishioners to refrain from this because there have been cases that the people have been so warm and welcoming to a few guests, they end up with a bunch of antidoron in their hands, more than they can eat at the time.

There is a line at the end of the Divine Liturgy where people get to venerate the blessing cross of the priest and then they get to take what's still left of the antidoron. Non-Orthodox and Catechumens are welcome to participate. Our parish lets non-Orthodox participate in everything except the Sacraments.

If you do not want to believe me, that is okay. But I won't name them because already by this tone I know this will create a controversy and people will make it a big deal even though it has been happening for quite some time and because most people are oblivious to the fact, life happily goes on. But it does happen and I have talked to people who have attested to this.

Life happily went on in Constantinople when almost the whole city became Arian. Your point?

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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.