To balance dion I think make it so it gives back some sp depending onthe lvl of the unit only after a certain lvl.

Also can counterplay a bit more with miracle fruit

lvl6 1sp

lvl7 2sp

lvl9 3sp

even give back x.5 sp like opal carbuncle skill where 50/50 both resultsfor example

I actually beat a more traditional i.e older dion file with mid refuss of all things. Counterplayed with grim to prevent rasam engage. Also saved up mass damage for an extra turn for when dion wass on field helped. Eventually opponent got back into control and would have won if not for lacking bulgrid ex ss. Opponent just ran out of cards at end.

Alteil lets you earn all currency which is good fm and gran Slow for free players but meant to be.

I totally agree that free players are essential part of content provide people to play with/ better Ai

Just card accessibility can be a problem as usually min 2 of a card and optimally 3 are needed. Better ways to get playsets with one time paying player auction Free players only 1stars/2 just an idea. Or other better ways to get playsets e.g discounted pt carding for 2nd /3rd copies .

Also fact that alteil sells power cards in the form of hard to get ex especially after pack sale ends permanently detering new free players. Although some really good ex can be targeted in prebuilts. Also still very playable low rarity and non ex files.

Alteil as a card game is also a niche game partly due to complexity. High learning curve for a lot of people as the mechanics are different. Plus big card pool.Although has potential to be like games like magic in terms of popularity.

Also can be relatively pricey especially since a tcg.

Many steps have been taken in the right direction just not too sure how to increase player base dramatically.

Maybe random reward logging in once a day on top of other stuff.E.g varyng amount of gran/fm better rewards higher lvl up to lvl200?. min to max us

Last edited by hexagram on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:40 am, edited 4 times in total.

hexagram wrote:Alteil lets you earn all currency which is good fm and gran Slow for free players but meant to be.

I totally agree that free players are essential part of content provide people to play with/ better Ai

Just card accessibility can be a problem as usually min 2 of a card and optimally 3 are needed. Better ways to get playsets with one time paying player auction Free players only 1stars/2 just an idea. Or other better ways to get playsets e.g discounted pt carding for 2nd /3rd copies .

Alteil as a card game is also a niche game partly due to complexity. High learning curve for a lot of people as the mechanics are different. Although has potential to be like games like magic in terms of popularity.

Also can be relatively pricey especially since a tcg.

Many steps have been taken in the right direction just not too sure how to increase player base dramatically.

Maybe random reward logging in once a day on top of other stuff.E.g varyng amount of gran/fm better rewards higher lvl up to lvl200?. min to max 5

Actually, the balance is very much off. You earn 2 gran a win on a 10 minute game. You're working for far less than minimum wage, (12 cents an hour! Come on, we outsource manufacturing to China for more than that!). And then, even though you can get currency, you can't really use that currency (aside from the very valuable point cards) to actually get what you want. IMO, we'd have a lot more low spending if you could actually pinpoint cards you want. I'm not saying to give away the farm by giving away the 4 and 5 stars, but IMO the rest of the things should be pinpointable by a little bit of spending, or by a week's worth of grinding for a playset of 3*s. IMO if you could get any card for double its recycle value, that'd still give a lot of incentive to spend. Because say I spend $10. I get 1100 gran. I buy 4 gold packs. I get 1 4* and 4x 3* and some 2*s and 1*s. Well, say I wanted a set of Ben Maclachlan. What's the probability that I get 3 Bens from 4 gold packs? I don't have the exact distributions so I can't calculate the precise probability, but I'd venture to say it's very low.

The problem with Alteil isn't that we necessarily get bad cost per content--it's that we have no control over what we spend on. For the collectors out there, they can still wind up spending hundreds of dollars. But for those of us who just want to pinpoint this and that card, we really have no way of doing that. So it's either spend an unacceptable amount, or spend nothing. There's really nothing in between.

As for complexity, I disagree. If you play card games, this isn't too hard.

DeeGee wrote:Look, every good game is going to, at high-level play, have some sort of strategy that wins because it changes the game state into one that's completely out of left field for most of the metagame to deal with and catch everyone with their pants down. If Alteil is going to be about "who can beat up whose critters", then if I play a file that's about not letting you attack, and not attacking into you, then I'm going to win because I adapted to you (changed the game state), and you didn't adapt to me.

I feel like talking about UMVC3 since I'm being a stream monster right now. I'll try to cover everything you talked about.

In the original MVC3, Phoenix was the main problem. Here were the ways to fight her:-Gain a lead, run away for the match (can be a problem since there's two other characters to fight, plus Phoenix has the mobility to catch the opponent plus an XFactor infinite for coming back.)-Snap Phoenix in, kill her (relies on getting a clean hit on a point character, also relies on getting a clean hit on Phoenix, Phoenix could also fly at the top of the screen, spam fireballs, and teleport to be hard to hit).-Play fair, kill the other two characters, then kill Phoenix/Dark Phoenix. (problem since Dark Phoenix + XFactor sucks).

Eventually Phoenix got nerfed both directly with less hang time in the air plus indirectly with side TACs. I believe this is a good nerf since it put the game in either a "Play Phoenix or learn to play against her" mindset.

In UMVC3, Zero was the big threat due to a 100% combo called Lightning Loops. In addition, Zero has a crossup dash, fast attacks, and a full hitbox around his jumping attack (aka the pizza cutter), so it's likely that he can get the hit. However, to be really scary you need to both hit people and bring to the corner.

So how did people counter this? They stopped fighting honestly and started playing keepaway. I use Chris or Doctor Strange, some people use Morrigan/Doom, etc. Some people also snap in Doom or just go for the Doom kill when he gets onscreen. Long story short, for every strategy presented, there is no dominant strategy that forces the opponent to play that strategy or learn to play against that strategy. There are multiple answers for counterplay, and those counterplay options have counterplays themselves. This is good for the depth of the game and nerfing at this point would be "scrubby".

Right now, I feel that the problem with Alteil is not with the cards themselves, it's more about people having access to the counterplay. If people were able to compose the decks they wanted and prepare against the meta, they'd be less frustrated. For now the only way to vent their frustration is writing QQ/nerf threads.

What do I propose? Obviously, the only solution I see is putting Sagat in Alteil. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

DeeGee wrote:Look, every good game is going to, at high-level play, have some sort of strategy that wins because it changes the game state into one that's completely out of left field for most of the metagame to deal with and catch everyone with their pants down. If Alteil is going to be about "who can beat up whose critters", then if I play a file that's about not letting you attack, and not attacking into you, then I'm going to win because I adapted to you (changed the game state), and you didn't adapt to me.

I feel like talking about UMVC3 since I'm being a stream monster right now. I'll try to cover everything you talked about.

In the original MVC3, Phoenix was the main problem. Here were the ways to fight her:-Gain a lead, run away for the match (can be a problem since there's two other characters to fight, plus Phoenix has the mobility to catch the opponent plus an XFactor infinite for coming back.)-Snap Phoenix in, kill her (relies on getting a clean hit on a point character, also relies on getting a clean hit on Phoenix, Phoenix could also fly at the top of the screen, spam fireballs, and teleport to be hard to hit).-Play fair, kill the other two characters, then kill Phoenix/Dark Phoenix. (problem since Dark Phoenix + XFactor sucks).

Eventually Phoenix got nerfed both directly with less hang time in the air plus indirectly with side TACs. I believe this is a good nerf since it put the game in either a "Play Phoenix or learn to play against her" mindset.

In UMVC3, Zero was the big threat due to a 100% combo called Lightning Loops. In addition, Zero has a crossup dash, fast attacks, and a full hitbox around his jumping attack (aka the pizza cutter), so it's likely that he can get the hit. However, to be really scary you need to both hit people and bring to the corner.

So how did people counter this? They stopped fighting honestly and started playing keepaway. I use Chris or Doctor Strange, some people use Morrigan/Doom, etc. Some people also snap in Doom or just go for the Doom kill when he gets onscreen. Long story short, for every strategy presented, there is no dominant strategy that forces the opponent to play that strategy or learn to play against that strategy. There are multiple answers for counterplay, and those counterplay options have counterplays themselves. This is good for the depth of the game and nerfing at this point would be "scrubby".

Right now, I feel that the problem with Alteil is not with the cards themselves, it's more about people having access to the counterplay. If people were able to compose the decks they wanted and prepare against the meta, they'd be less frustrated. For now the only way to vent their frustration is writing QQ/nerf threads.

What do I propose? Obviously, the only solution I see is putting Sagat in Alteil. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Which stream, sketchball? FGTV? And as for countering MorriDoom, Doom himself is pretty badass on point. And then when you couple that with Morrigan's Dark Harmonizer (free meter!) assist and Vergil on anchor...welp, Dark Vergil is second only to Dark Jean in terms of his ability to say "GTFO plzkthxbai".

That said, I miss vanilla MvC3 because there are few things as glorious in this universe as a curvy long-haired redhead in bright clothing lighting the world on fire. Just gorgeous in every sense of the word. Only problem is that UMvC3 has bugs in it that make Phoenix play pretty stupid because of TAC+XFactor+side TAC. And I'm a sad panda because the most gorgeous character in the game (easily) is no longer the most used.

DeeGee wrote:Which stream, sketchball? FGTV? And as for countering MorriDoom, Doom himself is pretty badass on point. And then when you couple that with Morrigan's Dark Harmonizer (free meter!) assist and Vergil on anchor...welp, Dark Vergil is second only to Dark Jean in terms of his ability to say "GTFO plzkthxbai".

That said, I miss vanilla MvC3 because there are few things as glorious in this universe as a curvy long-haired redhead in bright clothing lighting the world on fire. Just gorgeous in every sense of the word. Only problem is that UMvC3 has bugs in it that make Phoenix play pretty stupid because of TAC+XFactor+side TAC. And I'm a sad panda because the most gorgeous character in the game (easily) is no longer the most used.[/quote]

Dark Vergil's is no where near on Dark Phoenix's level just because he can't keepaway as well. He also lacks the air mobility. Couple that with 750K HP and he's easy to kill. He also needs meter for his Sword Loops.