With the rules on riding with other kids, there is no point for kids to get their license since they won't be able to drive their friends around. Plus the economic issues, cash for clunkers taking killing used car inventory and bonsai parenting.

I've owned three cars, all used. I felt such a freedom when I learned to drive, it opened a lot of doors for me. Even now living back at home I know that I can hop in the car and escape for a while if I need to...or run errands on my own time, whatever, social life, yadda yadda. $300 a month for payments, insurance and gas is a small price to pay for that freedom.

My dad bought my first car and paid the insurance when I was 17. It was a rusted out '83 Jeep CJ7 he paid $2,000 for. He told me that if I want to take it anywhere it'll need gas, and to get gas I'll need a job and money. So I got a job for that and also for the work program class my school ran where I can get out of school early by having a part time job.

Part of that class was one of the singularly most important things I learned from any class - you had to study and pass sections on writing resumes, how to talk to people to land an interview, and how to ace an interview. That one class has earned me far more money and enabled me to get employed anytime I wish a lot more than any other single class.

So, my want to drive my '83 Jeep CJ7 to the beach and pick up chicks ended up landing me a lot of money. And that Jeep on the beach pulled far more ass than anything I've owned since. It was unreal. Ahh, good times. Time to go to bed with my wife.

Hey Subby, go fark yourself. America's youth is the largest unemployed age group in this country, its hard to have the money for a car if you can't afford one. Those that do have jobs, are underemployed, and being paid peanuts. Yet their employers make it pretty impossible to have more than one job, because they want you to be flexible. All of which doesn't really make it possible for you to not only afford a car but climb out of poverty, but screw those people right? I mean, if you didn't go to college you're just a loser who deserves to be a useless peon right Subby? Then you can justify being in debt because of your college degree while you work at a company for the next 30 to 40 years of your life.

The youth of America are being farked, and farked hard. Don't be surprised when they finally get tired of this shiat.

GhostFish:So much vindictive spite aimed at the age groups with the least amount of money and power. Previous generations stripmined the opportunity out of this country, and now the kids left with the scraps get kicked around and spit on for not taking advantage of all the opportunities that don't exist anymore.

Seems like a good enough distraction. I mean, as the middle class shrinks more and more, who else do they have left to look down upon to blame their troubles on? Can't have them looking in the other direction along the food chain, can we?

The biggest problem is a tightening of the used market, between cash for clunkers, the decrease in production from 08-11, and the decrease in disposable income for the middle class there's been a very easily noticed increase in the cost of used cars. I've never owned a new car, always preferring to allow someone else to take the depreciation hit, but I'm very seriously considering it for my next vehicle as used cars are no longer the bargain that they used to be.

Cash-for-clunkers pretty much took a generation's worth of hand-me-down cars off the road. I'll bet that program raised the average value of an American car by over $1,000 just by removing so much resale competition.

Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance. Add in the high price of gas in some places and owning a car is simply too expensive for a young person.

Young people don't need brand new cars. Heck, nobody needs a brand new car, but especially if you are just starting to drive. If I remember right, my first car cost $300. It was a 66 Ford Falcon, and I was given a guarantee. He told me "Once you drive it off the lot, if it breaks in half, you get to keep both halves".

I suspect that lack of parking is a fairly major factor that they didn't look into. You can't have a car if you don't have a place to park it at home. These days, a lot more people live in places where they have very limited parking and there isn't room for the kids to have cars.

aelat:Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance. Add in the high price of gas in some places and owning a car is simply too expensive for a young person.

If only there were a way for young people to buy a car that wasn't new. Perhaps one that had been driven by a previous owner.

This was my takeaway from TFA.

My dad bought my first car with a very specific understanding between the two of us. I had to pay him back (no interest) and I had to pay for my share of the insurance on his policy. If I was to get booted from his policy, I would not be allowed to drive until I had secured my own insurance.

I paid him back, all $700 for that first Mustang. I also paid for my insurance- and, you wouldn't guess- was promptly dropped from his insurance because I had a Mustang and a lead foot. That car sat parked for two weeks before I picked up my own insurance- and I was still in high school. See, I had this thing called a part time job, and my dad was determined to teach me responsibility- fiscal and personal. It worked, and worked well.

My sister-in-law is in her early 20's- and she doesn't even have a permit. She is your very stereotypical blonde, hot as hell and dumb as a stump. She'd kill herself behind the wheel, and the entire family knows it. So, she's happy to just have the flavor of the month drive her around. It's pretty irritating.

Thanks for the answers. I had to look up what Zipcar was, and it doesn't appear to be available in my city. I tend to buy a lot of heavy, bulky groceries at once, so backpacks usually wouldn't work. Personaly shopping carts eh... I might look into that. Be honest, though. Would I look like a hobo? I don't exactly want to get hassled..

GhostFish:So much vindictive spite aimed at the age groups with the least amount of money and power. Previous generations stripmined the opportunity out of this country, and now the kids left with the scraps get kicked around and spit on for not taking advantage of all the opportunities that don't exist anymore.

Seems like a good enough distraction. I mean, as the middle class shrinks more and more, who else do they have left to look down upon to blame their troubles on? Can't have them looking in the other direction along the food chain, can we?

brigid:I've owned three cars, all used. I felt such a freedom when I learned to drive, it opened a lot of doors for me. Even now living back at home I know that I can hop in the car and escape for a while if I need to...or run errands on my own time, whatever, social life, yadda yadda. $300 a month for payments, insurance and gas is a small price to pay for that freedom.

I just tie on my running shoes and go for 3 to 4 hours - I spend about $100 every 2 months on shoes though...

Voodoo_Stu:Thanks for the answers. I had to look up what Zipcar was, and it doesn't appear to be available in my city. I tend to buy a lot of heavy, bulky groceries at once, so backpacks usually wouldn't work. Personaly shopping carts eh... I might look into that. Be honest, though. Would I look like a hobo? I don't exactly want to get hassled..

Any one put a trailer on a bike?

Babies R Us has them for $99. Those suckers require zero skill to install, and will carry 200lbs of stuff or however much you can pedal with.

bbfreak:Hey Subby, go fark yourself. America's youth is the largest unemployed age group in this country, its hard to have the money for a car if you can't afford one. Those that do have jobs, are underemployed, and being paid peanuts. Yet their employers make it pretty impossible to have more than one job, because they want you to be flexible. All of which doesn't really make it possible for you to not only afford a car but climb out of poverty, but screw those people right? I mean, if you didn't go to college you're just a loser who deserves to be a useless peon right Subby? Then you can justify being in debt because of your college degree while you work at a company for the next 30 to 40 years of your life.

The youth of America are being farked, and farked hard. Don't be surprised when they finally get tired of this shiat.

While I agree with you. I'd just like to tell a story about my grandfather. He once worked for a company that you would be fired if you owned a car., because the company knew they didn't paying enough to afford one and so they must be stealing from someone. True story,I'm not sure what year that was in.

JuggleGeek:I suspect that lack of parking is a fairly major factor that they didn't look into. You can't have a car if you don't have a place to park it at home. These days, a lot more people live in places where they have very limited parking and there isn't room for the kids to have cars.

Nope. I'm just not stupid enough to buy into the myth that I should spend a significant chunk of my income in a car. Sorry.

bbfreak:Hey Subby, go fark yourself. America's youth is the largest unemployed age group in this country, its hard to have the money for a car if you can't afford one. Those that do have jobs, are underemployed, and being paid peanuts. Yet their employers make it pretty impossible to have more than one job, because they want you to be flexible. All of which doesn't really make it possible for you to not only afford a car but climb out of poverty, but screw those people right? I mean, if you didn't go to college you're just a loser who deserves to be a useless peon right Subby? Then you can justify being in debt because of your college degree while you work at a company for the next 30 to 40 years of your life.

The youth of America are being farked, and farked hard. Don't be surprised when they finally get tired of this shiat.

aelat:Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance. Add in the high price of gas in some places and owning a car is simply too expensive for a young person.

If only there were a way for young people to buy a car that wasn't new. Perhaps one that had been driven by a previous owner.

That would be great if cash for clunkers hadnt sent all those cars to the scrapyard. 10 year old (2003!) 100k mileage Honda Civic, at least $5k.

E5bie:Voodoo_Stu: Thanks for the answers. I had to look up what Zipcar was, and it doesn't appear to be available in my city. I tend to buy a lot of heavy, bulky groceries at once, so backpacks usually wouldn't work. Personaly shopping carts eh... I might look into that. Be honest, though. Would I look like a hobo? I don't exactly want to get hassled..

Any one put a trailer on a bike?

Babies R Us has them for $99. Those suckers require zero skill to install, and will carry 200lbs of stuff or however much you can pedal with.

Not 200. 70 lbs max. I know, I've done it enough times during my divorce and the post divorce recovery.

70 lbs is about 10 bags worth of groceries. Figure meat is heavy but produce isn't. It works out. You can also pick up panniers, a rear rack and use a backpack. Figure 70 lbs for the trailer, two half racks in the panniers and whatever soft stuff like bread goes in the backpack. All total about 100 lbs of food. You won't be going very fast. Say about 10-12 mph. Not because you can't go faster but because you can't stop for shiat with that much extra weight.

ferretman:This article surprises me. I thought Obama had turned the economy around and there were jobs galore I thought Congress with their laser like focus on jobs would have meant there were jobs galore.

My first car was my 23rd Birthday present from my parents. Its a 2001 Silver Suzuki V6 Grand Vitara. With regular use, I spend about $60 a WEEK on gas. It sucks, but the car was practically free, so I'm willing to spend the gas money when I have no extra car payment. I also love being able to haul things.

/Don't use it as much anymore since the new Expo Line opened. Now I can get where I need to go without spending an arm and a leg.//In LA.

CSB/My first car was $45. A 1949 Plymouth Sedan, six-banger with a slushamatic transmission (manual shift with a torque convertor). It was the same age as me. I was stocking at the local grocery, making minimum wage...$1.75. Gas was about 32¢/ gallon and smokes were 25¢ a pack. I bought one every morning on the way to the bus stop for school. The back seating was large enuf to almost stretch your legs out. It was a hideous flat green, army-looking color. After I graduated high school, I got a real job making $2.73/ hour and moved up to a Dodge Coronet with a a 318cid. It raced against Volkswagens and Opel Kadets, but it was a major panty-dropper. I lived high on the hog until Uncle Sam came and said, "Here's your gun...gimme that guitar".//end CSB

My car is the bane of my existence. Between gas, insurance, repairs, and maintenance I spend most of my money keeping the damn thing running so that I can go to work to make money to keep the damn thing running.

I'm going to buy my stepdaughter's first vehicle. A beat to hell truck. She'll pay for gas, I'll teach her to change the oil. I'll pay for the liability insurance. I'm thinking something along the lines of a late 80's Chevy half ton pickup. Preferably with a shiatty paint job, a V-6 and the dents will have dents.

Esroc:My car is the bane of my existence. Between gas, insurance, repairs, and maintenance I spend most of my money keeping the damn thing running so that I can go to work to make money to keep the damn thing running.

Welcome to America, I guess..

Car, house, and spouse. That's what keeps you guys in line so you can continue transferring money from one millionaire to another.

My first gasoline powered vehicles were all of the two wheel variety. I got a moped when I was 15. I bought a Honda 250 when I was 18, and have used some variety of 2 wheeled transport since then. Yes, I have a car, but it is a cheap one, and I rarely use is for more than 2000 miles a year.

Mikeyworld:CSB/My first car was $45. A 1949 Plymouth Sedan, six-banger with a slushamatic transmission (manual shift with a torque convertor). It was the same age as me. I was stocking at the local grocery, making minimum wage...$1.75. Gas was about 32¢/ gallon and smokes were 25¢ a pack. I bought one every morning on the way to the bus stop for school. The back seating was large enuf to almost stretch your legs out. It was a hideous flat green, army-looking color. After I graduated high school, I got a real job making $2.73/ hour and moved up to a Dodge Coronet with a a 318cid. It raced against Volkswagens and Opel Kadets, but it was a major panty-dropper. I lived high on the hog until Uncle Sam came and said, "Here's your gun...gimme that guitar".//end CSB

I'm going to buy my stepdaughter's first vehicle. A beat to hell truck. She'll pay for gas, I'll teach her to change the oil. I'll pay for the liability insurance. I'm thinking something along the lines of a late 80's Chevy half ton pickup. Preferably with a shiatty paint job, a V-6 and the dents will have dents.

Dude she can just fark guys in the truck bed like I did.

Not when you weld in couch supports but don't install the couches. I'm talking rails, mounting brackets, nelson studs, etc.

aelat:Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance. Add in the high price of gas in some places and owning a car is simply too expensive for a young person.

If only there were a way for young people to buy a car that wasn't new. Perhaps one that had been driven by a previous owner.

The entitled generation doesn't think that way. Just like they all expect to be making $75k right out of college after majoring in art.

bbfreak:Hey Subby, go fark yourself. America's youth is the largest unemployed age group in this country, its hard to have the money for a car if you can't afford one. Those that do have jobs, are underemployed, and being paid peanuts. Yet their employers make it pretty impossible to have more than one job, because they want you to be flexible. All of which doesn't really make it possible for you to not only afford a car but climb out of poverty, but screw those people right? I mean, if you didn't go to college you're just a loser who deserves to be a useless peon right Subby? Then you can justify being in debt because of your college degree while you work at a company for the next 30 to 40 years of your life.

The youth of America are being farked, and farked hard. Don't be surprised when they finally get tired of this shiat.

Just felt like this needed to be reposted before I walk my broke self to the store

Voodoo_Stu:I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has: How the heck do you get groceries home?

You shop more often. It sucks. When all I had was my motorcycle, I basically shopped the same way as you would if you took the bus. Since my saddlebags could only hold two bags of groceries (and nothing too bulky, either), I couldn't get everything I needed in a single trip.

There are some parts of the country where a car is more of a liability than an asset. Try parking in San Francisco... if that's not expensive enough for you, try parking in Oakland; the east bay has a disturbingly disproportionate number of parked-car fires.

Don't worry, everyone will buy a car when they need some place to retire live when they're too old and broken to work anymore.

I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has: How the heck do you get groceries home?

If you can't pack or bike them and there is no zipcar in your town, and your grocer won't deliver, you can always rent.

There is a rental car office within walking distance of my house, and in the mornings there are always people there looking for their daily ride. It's relatively expensive, because if you are carless you are also insuranceless and have to rent that too. You can probably get out the door with something decent, fully insured, for less than $75 a day.

You can drive the wheels off that rental all day long knocking out errands. Do it on a Friday, and that night you can take it out on the town. Next morning bring it back and you are once again gloriously free.

Only you can do the math to know if it adds up to not own. In a rural area, probably not. In a city these days, probably yes.

Well, if companies don't like paying their employees money, then it's kinda difficult for those employees to purchase goods and services.

One of the causes of the Great Depression (not the only cause, it was a storm of suck) was the factories paying extremely low wages while they pumped out a flood of new fangled luxury goods like electric toasters. The problem was there was too limited of a market to buy those goods because the poor sods who built them couldn't afford one themselves. So they fired the factory workers since no one was buying what they built. The middle class who could afford them also got fired because you don't need pencil pushers and middle managers when you don't have factory workers and aren't selling product. Big circle of economic suck.

So we have the new system of everyone works in fast food. Fortunately, working the register gives you enough money to buy the product so you won't starve. Unfortunately, not much more than that. So we have a new circle of suck.

The board of directors doesn't give a shiat because the value of their stock options just went up 10%, so fark the prolies.

/no, I'm not calling for the people's control of the factor. That's the biggest circle of suck