In a squad containing Mas Amedda, Commander Ashoka and General Skywalker with Dash Rendar RS:

Dash began his turn adjacent to a character and within one square of another. He makes his attacks (all four) and kills the adjacent enemy, thus rolling cleave would come into effect and he thus moves adjacent to the next enemy and twins him. The argument clearly was whether Momentum would come into effect.

Normally, if the character HAD Momentum on his own, it becomes a no brainer. The character would recieve the benefits, quite simply he moved (lower case).

However, this was Skywalker's momentum, which requires an END to Movement(capital M).

Let's say Dash did not have GMA and used his full attack action previously...thus he had no Movement to end. Rolling Cleave itself is not part of a character's Move action, just a "free" action granted.

I think using the above makes it irrelevant that Dash still had 6 squares of movement, that he could or could not use (player's choice).

Writing it out helped me sort it out, I ruled correctly that Momentum was not in effect, but this was the most upset I've ever had anyone so it kind of threw me off. I've been pretty rusty since returning home after a year of not playing:D

You sure you ruled correctly? I was under the impression that Rolling Cleave automatically kicked Momentum into play. Now, of course, you did the right thing by trying to come to a good interpretation of the rules, and then sticking to it. That's the judge's job, even if we get it wrong sometimes. You might've been right though, and I totally understand your logic behind it. I'd double check with NickName for the future though.

_________________-AaronMand'alor"You either die a hero, or you live to see yourself become the villain."

Nickname's answer doesn't seem to fit that question though. Nickname's answer was referring to the use of Gallop and Momentum. That question was talking about using Double-Attack and Momentum. I was always under the impression that if a character used Double Attack, and they got a Rolling Cleave off the first one, that Momentum would kick in on the Rolling Cleave attack, because at that point, you will have 'finished your move'.

Now, the situation with Dash that TCW talked about, it would be one of those things where the player would have to declare that they were done moving and wanted to use Momentum (similar to how Deadeye/Careful Shot must be declared ahead of time). I think that's how it should actually work out. If the player wished to move 1 space from Rolling Cleave, finish their attacks, and then continue moving due to Dash's GMA, then yes, I would agree that he would not get Momentum.

_________________-AaronMand'alor"You either die a hero, or you live to see yourself become the villain."

Um sorry no. The question clearly says Yobuck makes a Double Attack. That is where I see NickName's answer does fit the question cause he states and has declared the move over, so if Dash player said I'm not moving and killed first piece and then moved on the Cleave attack he would receive momentum. Cleave again if possible with momentum and then still have a double attack (assuming the first attack killed the first guy) with momentum (assuming there is an adjacent legal target available) or regular shot without momentum.

So, I would see it similiar to Deadeye in that if you don't declare it before you roll against the first attack, you don't get the bonus.

@ swinefeld. The trick is that it's a combination of things. Skywalker's CE requires 2 things. That you have moved at least 1 square, and that you have ended your movement. So, in the case of Yobuck doing Double Attack, you have already declared your movement to be over by doing a Double Attack, so that satisfies the first part of the criteria. It's not based on your 'normal move' I think. So, once you move 1 square due to Rolling Cleave, now you've satisfied the 2nd part of the equation, and can benefit from Momentum.

_________________-AaronMand'alor"You either die a hero, or you live to see yourself become the villain."

Momentum says "moved this turn". If the character already has Momentum, Rolling Cleave activates it.Skywalker's CE says "who end their move...".

The key part of NickName's answer was:

Quote:

If he moved previously and has declared the move over.

If Kybuck had moved previously, he wouldn't be able to double attack in the first place. Dash on the other hand could, so he would have to explicitly declare his movement over. So I see NickName's wording as being pretty clear that you have to actually use your move action to move at least one square, then end it, in order to receive the CE.

It certainly is a bit confusing.We may well have to bug NickName to get an official answer to this exact situation.

Edit: and I believe there may be a precedent about "moving zero squares" with regards to some other abilities, but I'm not sure I could track that down as I don't recall the specifics...

See I think the "zero square move precedent" that states that C3Po Ewok Deity who has a move of 0 can not "end" his movement next to a rebel troop cart and board may apply here. No character can simply just choose to "end" their movement without moving at least 1 square, per the Ewok Diety ruling. Herego, no one can benefit from "ending" their movement within 6 (or in this case, anywhere) of General Skywalker, without actually using their Move action to move at least 1 square.

In my opinion, the 1 square movement granted from Rolling Cleave is NOT part of their standard Move action, it's simply movement.

Okay wait a minute then...so let's change the situation. No Mas, and the character moved 6 to base his opponent. Gen. Skywalker is 6 away as is Ashoka.

He is granted momentum(he ended his movement within 6) on his attacks (still using Dash) and kills the opponet. HE then gets rolling cleave, but now since he has ended "A new movement" outside of Skywalker's range, he no longer gets Momentum??? I don't like that interaction at all...surely you're not saying he can use his previous check to still have it granted...the two rulings would completely contradict each other.

Okay wait a minute then...so let's change the situation. No Mas, and the character moved 6 to base his opponent. Gen. Skywalker is 6 away as is Ashoka.

He is granted momentum(he ended his movement within 6) on his attacks (still using Dash) and kills the opponet. HE then gets rolling cleave, but now since he has ended "A new movement" outside of Skywalker's range, he no longer gets Momentum??? I don't like that interaction at all...surely you're not saying he can use his previous check to still have it granted...the two rulings would completely contradict each other.

From what I read, once the character declares the normal move over (within 6 of Skywalker) he gains momentum for the rest of the turn, whether RC then takes him father away or not. That precedent was set with CS Durge.

Eh, don't beat yourself up over it Brad. There's plenty of odd-ball ones like this out there that can get really confusing, especially when you have two players breathing down your neck to make a decision. The key is to make the call, and stick to it for the duration of the tournament.

I always remember the story about Rob Watkins rulling the interaction of Transfer Essence and Thrawn's Force Bubble incorrectly during GenCon '06, and from what I understand, it may have cost somebody a game. The ruling was then clarified shortly after. So, even the game designer does it. No reason for you to feel bad. We're all human.

_________________-AaronMand'alor"You either die a hero, or you live to see yourself become the villain."

Eh, don't beat yourself up over it Brad. There's plenty of odd-ball ones like this out there that can get really confusing, especially when you have two players breathing down your neck to make a decision. The key is to make the call, and stick to it for the duration of the tournament.

I always remember the story about Rob Watkins rulling the interaction of Transfer Essence and Thrawn's Force Bubble incorrectly during GenCon '06, and from what I understand, it may have cost somebody a game. The ruling was then clarified shortly after. So, even the game designer does it. No reason for you to feel bad. We're all human.

Wait I don't think I heard this one. What happened? I could have swore I was there in 06 but maybe not.

Matt Peterson (MtMagus) was playing Engineer in 06 in the semifinals. Matt had Exar and wanted to transfer into the bubble from outside it and the triple attack would kill thrawn (40hps remaining). Since the rules were that transfer did not actually target, it should have been allowed. Matt was not allowed to do so, and Eric ended up winning a close game (which he wouldn't have if the ruling had been made correctly). Matt ended up taking third, and Eric ended up beating me in a Black and Blue mirror match (he had copied my squad after I let them all know for testing, etc). Eric won Gencon 06, and became a legend, and Matt had to wait 3 more years to get into the Hall of Fame.

Later that week, Nickname gave the correct ruling (which would have allowed Matt to do as the rules should have allowed) and 6 months later Rob gave us an errata on the bubble that would actually prevent it.

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