Thanks. I was going to point that out, but didn't want to be branded as a ZOMFG!RacistFascistRethuglicanObamaHater.

In the eyes of the extreme partisan even a logical observation is seen as an attack on their ideologies.

Of course Fark headlines are all about hyperbole and misdirection, so...

I am confused by some of your replies in the thread though as you appear to be agreeing with the left leaning posters and yet you are deriding the left at the same time.

Just Another OC Homeless Guy:Aeon Rising: Recently all of the regular employees at the fast food joints and gas stations around here left and were replaced by ones who speak and understand english.

A quiet INS crackdown forcing businesses to fire illegals would easily explain the number increase, and if credit for that can be laid at Obama's feet, I thank him. WIsh he had pushed this earlier, but... Good job!

Yeah, tell me about it. There's a Jack in the Box around here where at least 4 employees speak only Spanish. Hmmmmmm...... Any faint chance they are illegals?

Poorer citizens should be pissed off about the flood of (ahem) undocumented workers for these reasons:

1) they accept jobs under the table for cash and throw minimum wage citizens out of work.

2) they drive up the cost of even crappy apartments by increasing the demand for housing.

3) most of them live very sparsely and send a large amount of the money they make back to family in their own country. This drives down demand for consumer goods, relative to money spent by businesses for labor costs, and contributes to keeping the economy tanked. The poor, of course and as always, get in worse in the shorts than the more well-to-do.

/Patiently waiting for the howls of Racist! from the usual suspects.

And I'm not a usual suspect, but I have to say that your views are surely racist.

Just Another OC Homeless Guy:dennysgod: FTA The U.S. lost 9 million private-sector jobs during the Great Recession. Just 5 million have been recovered. Even worse, the level of private-sector jobs remains 13 million below the pre-crisis job growth trend. That's the true jobs gap, and it isn't closing.

Don't count on Romney or Obama causing that jobs gap to go away anytime soon and it's a very simple reason as to why. For those of us that have survived all the various layoff and downsizing what was the first thing that happen when your coworkers were pinked slipped, you job duties doubled, and/or you had to work more hours. Companies quickly learned that they can eek out a profit with less staff because even with the overtime paid (for the lucky ones) it's was cheaper then the insurance and payroll taxes of a full-time employee, so there is really no incentive to hire anybody back. And even now that, despite what the right-wing blog sphere says, the economy is turning around employers are only hiring part time because it's still cheaper to hire two part-timers then one full timer.

This is also why joblessness isn't a good benchmark for recessions recovery because job numbers always lag way behind the economic benchmarks.

You have it exact right in all respects. It is frustrating that liberals/progressives cannot see these simple facts. It is so simple and so obvious.

Good points, but we're back to the same problems.

If things are as you say they are, then raising taxes wouldn't particularly do anything for the amount of debt we are carrying, and there's even an open question whether it would even result in a modest increase in income for the government--let's say it did--it would barely put a dent in the deficit spending we have in place right now. To make matters worse, Obama wants to increase the deficit further in hopes that the investment will pan out in something that is revenue positive--something that is in no way guaranteed and based on past results over nearly 4 years, is unlikely to happen. To those who would say, "well we didn't do enough that's why!" I would suggest that if you think you're going to get some sort of "New New Deal" out of the coming Congress, you are smoking crack. No, at best you are going to get a few infrastructure projects through and that's about it.

Looking at the next 4 years of an Obama Presidency, I see a nation that will be lesser for it. I wish that weren't true, but looking big picture, it will be a frustrating 4 years with Left wingers and Progressives left rooting for Conservative members of the Supreme Court to die in office so they can conduct a judicial jihad and at least get something accomplished. We continue to slouch toward mediocrity, not by design, but by lack of deeds.

Will Romney take the grass grow greener, all our children have perfect teeth, and the deficit and subsequently our indebtedness as a nation magically go away? No. Actually he will face many of the same challenges that Obama does trying to get through a meaningful agenda through a Congress that day-by-day is slowly proving that semi-legendary political adage that a people who figure out that they can vote themselves money have doomed democracy. Romney isn't the last stand of American democracy--he does represent however the possibility of a change of direction for the better. I want to believe that we aren't doomed to become something lesser than we are.

Just Another OC Homeless Guy:dennysgod: FTA The U.S. lost 9 million private-sector jobs during the Great Recession. Just 5 million have been recovered. Even worse, the level of private-sector jobs remains 13 million below the pre-crisis job growth trend. That's the true jobs gap, and it isn't closing.

Don't count on Romney or Obama causing that jobs gap to go away anytime soon and it's a very simple reason as to why. For those of us that have survived all the various layoff and downsizing what was the first thing that happen when your coworkers were pinked slipped, you job duties doubled, and/or you had to work more hours. Companies quickly learned that they can eek out a profit with less staff because even with the overtime paid (for the lucky ones) it's was cheaper then the insurance and payroll taxes of a full-time employee, so there is really no incentive to hire anybody back. And even now that, despite what the right-wing blog sphere says, the economy is turning around employers are only hiring part time because it's still cheaper to hire two part-timers then one full timer.

This is also why joblessness isn't a good benchmark for recessions recovery because job numbers always lag way behind the economic benchmarks.

You have it exact right in all respects. It is frustrating that liberals/progressives cannot see these simple facts. It is so simple and so obvious.

Just Another OC Homeless Guy:Aeon Rising: Recently all of the regular employees at the fast food joints and gas stations around here left and were replaced by ones who speak and understand english.

A quiet INS crackdown forcing businesses to fire illegals would easily explain the number increase, and if credit for that can be laid at Obama's feet, I thank him. WIsh he had pushed this earlier, but... Good job!

Yeah, tell me about it. There's a Jack in the Box around here where at least 4 employees speak only Spanish. Hmmmmmm...... Any faint chance they are illegals?

Poorer citizens should be pissed off about the flood of (ahem) undocumented workers for these reasons:

1) they accept jobs under the table for cash and throw minimum wage citizens out of work.

2) they drive up the cost of even crappy apartments by increasing the demand for housing.

3) most of them live very sparsely and send a large amount of the money they make back to family in their own country. This drives down demand for consumer goods, relative to money spent by businesses for labor costs, and contributes to keeping the economy tanked. The poor, of course and as always, get in worse in the shorts than the more well-to-do.

david_gaithersburg:Just because they lied about the last 22 jobless reports isn't a reason to doubt this report.

soakitincider:the gov't is constantly changing the way jobs added/jobs lost is measured. Our true unemployment is much higher than the gov't reported number. It is purely a measure for propaganda.

The Muthaship:The jobs numbers have been complete fiction for a long time. Why are people ready to believe this set?

lordaction:Pretty much not a single economist believes them. Anyone with a college level education of economics knows they are impossible. The ex-head of GE, one of Obama's biggest donors, even says they are bullshiat.

babygoat:david_gaithersburg: Just because they lied about the last 22 jobless reports isn't a reason to doubt this report.

soakitincider: the gov't is constantly changing the way jobs added/jobs lost is measured. Our true unemployment is much higher than the gov't reported number. It is purely a measure for propaganda.

The Muthaship: The jobs numbers have been complete fiction for a long time. Why are people ready to believe this set?

lordaction: Pretty much not a single economist believes them. Anyone with a college level education of economics knows they are impossible. The ex-head of GE, one of Obama's biggest donors, even says they are bullshiat.

Clemkadidlefark: It's not a conspiracy if it's true

I don't suppose a single one of you has anything to back any of this up with? Would one of you care to add up the September jobs numbers for us?

This might be hard for you to understand since you are a liberal and are only used to making decisions based on emotions, but give it a shot and see if you can make one based of numbers.

That's really all I needed. Yes, you probably are a racist.Illegals isn't a racist term. It has a specific narrow definition that is not race specific. Should there be an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, they would also be illegals.

The more I read, the more it appears there was indeed a crackdown, it did lead to more jobs available to legals (even brown ones!, gasp!) it was asked for by Obama.

This is a good thing.

Illegal also isn't a noun, and if you use it as one you probably are a racist. If there were an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, no one who uses the word illegals would care.

babygoat:lordaction:This might be hard for you to understand since you are a liberal and are only used to making decisions based on emotions, but give it a shot and see if you can make one based of numbers.

Link

Did the White House manipulate the unemployment figures or not?

White House, behest of the White House, there is no way to know that without being a part of the conspiracy. But as the sign used to say in the Oval Office "The buck stops here". I do hear that Obama replaced it with one that says "It is Bush's Fault". Can't really expect a liberal to take responsibility for their own actions though, can we?

lordaction:babygoat: lordaction:This might be hard for you to understand since you are a liberal and are only used to making decisions based on emotions, but give it a shot and see if you can make one based of numbers.

Link

Did the White House manipulate the unemployment figures or not?

White House, behest of the White House, there is no way to know that without being a part of the conspiracy. But as the sign used to say in the Oval Office "The buck stops here". I do hear that Obama replaced it with one that says "It is Bush's Fault". Can't really expect a liberal to take responsibility for their own actions though, can we?

Did the methodology for calculating the unemployment figure change between August and September?

That's really all I needed. Yes, you probably are a racist.Illegals isn't a racist term. It has a specific narrow definition that is not race specific. Should there be an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, they would also be illegals.

The more I read, the more it appears there was indeed a crackdown, it did lead to more jobs available to legals (even brown ones!, gasp!) it was asked for by Obama.

This is a good thing.

Illegal also isn't a noun, and if you use it as one you probably are a racist. If there were an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, no one who uses the word illegals would care.

That is straight up wrong. The English language is glorious in it's ability to add and change words.

And yea, would care. Students who come on a visa and then stay too long are also illegals. Mexicans who come across to work are illegals. British, Canadians, Chinese, any group you want to mention that comes in illegally are illegals and a problem.

It was a pain in the ass when we moved here, and other people can damn well show the same respect for our laws or Go The Fark Home.

lordaction:Pretty much not a single economist believes them. Anyone with a college level education of economics knows they are impossible. The ex-head of GE, one of Obama's biggest donors, even says they are bullshiat.

Wow, someone has been hitting the bath salts or something. So he is an Obama donor now? Is he a Muslim too?

babygoat:david_gaithersburg: Just because they lied about the last 22 jobless reports isn't a reason to doubt this report.

soakitincider: the gov't is constantly changing the way jobs added/jobs lost is measured. Our true unemployment is much higher than the gov't reported number. It is purely a measure for propaganda.

The Muthaship: The jobs numbers have been complete fiction for a long time. Why are people ready to believe this set?

lordaction: Pretty much not a single economist believes them. Anyone with a college level education of economics knows they are impossible. The ex-head of GE, one of Obama's biggest donors, even says they are bullshiat.

Clemkadidlefark: It's not a conspiracy if it's true

I don't suppose a single one of you has anything to back any of this up with? Would one of you care to add up the September jobs numbers for us?

That's really all I needed. Yes, you probably are a racist.Illegals isn't a racist term. It has a specific narrow definition that is not race specific. Should there be an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, they would also be illegals.

The more I read, the more it appears there was indeed a crackdown, it did lead to more jobs available to legals (even brown ones!, gasp!) it was asked for by Obama.

This is a good thing.

Illegal also isn't a noun, and if you use it as one you probably are a racist. If there were an influx of Canadians entering the USA illegally, no one who uses the word illegals would care.

That is straight up wrong. The English language is glorious in it's ability to add and change words.

And yea, would care. Students who come on a visa and then stay too long are also illegals. Mexicans who come across to work are illegals. British, Canadians, Chinese, any group you want to mention that comes in illegally are illegals and a problem.

It was a pain in the ass when we moved here, and other people can damn well show the same respect for our laws or Go The Fark Home.

Yeah they could do one of those two things, or they can keep working and providing for their family and why the f%ck wouldn't they? On what planet is that not the most attractive option? I understand that it pisses you off but that doesn't factor into the decision at all. How about a realistic solution instead of calling them "illegals"?

babygoat:On what planet is that not the most attractive option? I understand that it pisses you off but that doesn't factor into the decision at all. How about a realistic solution instead of calling them "illegals"?

Ok, realistic solution. Work that hard to fix their own country, follow the established laws for immigration, and perhaps even show us American's how things are done by opening their borders the way they expect us to?

How about that? And finally lets stop pretending that these criminals are not breaking the law.

Aeon Rising:babygoat: On what planet is that not the most attractive option? I understand that it pisses you off but that doesn't factor into the decision at all. How about a realistic solution instead of calling them "illegals"?

Ok, realistic solution. Work that hard to fix their own country, follow the established laws for immigration, and perhaps even show us American's how things are done by opening their borders the way they expect us to?

How about that? And finally lets stop pretending that these criminals are not breaking the law.

Let's assume that the September job numbers are legitimate and that Obama had something to do with it. We're talking about a man who had nearly four years to do SOMETHING to get the US economy back on its feet and hiring people and only now he has some piddling fraction of a percentage point to show for it? That's not what I consider a "good job". That's like a juvenile delinquent expecting to be valedictorian because he somehow squeaked by with a D instead of an F this time.

Since we are not the worlds police, nation building does not work and we don't need to be buried in yet another nations problems we can:1. Stop apologizing for illegals2. Close the door, so they either come here legally3. Let them figure out how to build their own countries or show enough respect for ours to come here legally.

Since every illegal ever is such a good hard law abiding working just taking care of their family and making the world a better place they should be able to turn around their various home countries with little trouble.

Aeon Rising:Since we are not the worlds police, nation building does not work and we don't need to be buried in yet another nations problems we can:1. Stop apologizing for illegals2. Close the door, so they either come here legally3. Let them figure out how to build their own countries or show enough respect for ours to come here legally.

Since every illegal ever is such a good hard law abiding working just taking care of their family and making the world a better place they should be able to turn around their various home countries with little trouble.

1. Who's apologizing?2. How? Are you going to pay for it?3. Again, how the f%ck do you do it?

babygoat:1. Who's apologizing?2. How? Are you going to pay for it?3. Again, how the f%ck do you do it?

1. A reference to pretending illegals are not illegals, attempts to reframe this as racism and pushes to be inclusive of illegals.2. Yes, it's called taxes.3. I don't do it. You don't do it. NATION BUILDING DOES NOT WORK. Let them fix their own damn problems. Getting all those hard workers back to their own countries is a great first step though. How can a country thrive when it's losing its best and brightest?

LaughingRadish:Let's assume that the September job numbers are legitimate and that Obama had something to do with it. We're talking about a man who had nearly four years to do SOMETHING to get the US economy back on its feet and hiring people and only now he has some piddling fraction of a percentage point to show for it? That's not what I consider a "good job". That's like a juvenile delinquent expecting to be valedictorian because he somehow squeaked by with a D instead of an F this time.

You've apparently ignored the hundreds of charts showing unemployment was on it's way down when he took office and is now on the way back up. I'm betting you're also the type that cries about gas prices being twice what they were when Obama took office in '09 and forgetting that they were even higher than now in the summer of '08.

Aeon Rising:babygoat: 1. Who's apologizing?2. How? Are you going to pay for it?3. Again, how the f%ck do you do it?

1. A reference to pretending illegals are not illegals, attempts to reframe this as racism and pushes to be inclusive of illegals.2. Yes, it's called taxes.3. I don't do it. You don't do it. NATION BUILDING DOES NOT WORK. Let them fix their own damn problems. Getting all those hard workers back to their own countries is a great first step though. How can a country thrive when it's losing its best and brightest?

1. I'm sorry your life sucks and that you need to scapegoat people. The fact that you're probably racist doesn't affect the problem one way or the other.2. F#ck you, you pay for it. It's a retarded idea.3. The fact that you think you can find them and figure out where they came from and send them all home and pay for it with taxes just shows that you have no solution to the problem. You just want to biatch in a public forum. The problem with people like you is that you never wonder how illegal immigrants can find jobs when Americans can't.4. So f#ck you.

Sybarite:I agree that the unemployment numbers are skewed by the change made in 1994 that decided if you were discouraged for more than 12 months you were no longer part of the unemployed. The U-6 number is a far more accurate reflection of the total employment picture. That said, biatching about a measure that's been used for eighteen years because you don't like what it says in the month before the election is Grade A 100% bullshiat. Does anyone think these same people will be complaining about the inaccuracy of the unemployment number after January if Romney wins?

I think what they're complaining about is the nearly magical drop below the oft discussed (because Obama quoted it) 8% line, the timing of the drop (right after he got his ass handed to him by Romney in the debate) and how the number of newly employed (according to the article, 900,000 more people employed versus new jobs created of 114,000) is so implausible as to be bordering on incredible (and "incredible" meaning "lacking in credibility").

They announce these figures and then a month or two later, restate them when the actual data comes in. I won't be the least bit surprised to hear that the September jobs numbers get adjusted way downward come November after the election. I mean really...900,000 in a single month? Why? What happened in the economy to prompt that when the number is actually lower than what was added in July (146,000) but then the rate didn't drop nearly this much?

I fully understand the math involved so it's not that. 146,000 new jobs produced a drop of .1 percent while114,000 new jobs produced a drop of .4 percent. That's...well..."incredible".

babygoat:1. I'm sorry your life sucks and that you need to scapegoat people. The fact that you're probably racist doesn't affect the problem one way or the other.2. F#ck you, you pay for it. It's a retarded idea.3. The fact that you think you can find them and figure out where they came from and send them all home and pay for it with taxes just shows that you have no solution to the problem. You just want to biatch in a public forum. The problem with people like you is that you never wonder how illegal immigrants can find jobs when Americans can't.4. So f#ck you.

1. Right. The quality of my life, nor insults you throw my way affect these things. Illegals are still illegals, and per your question the way to stop apologizing for them is to..... stop excusing, protecting and otherwise taking action to make the lives of illegals easier.2. Ok, I will pay for it. I already do. With my taxes. Where do you think the INS gets its money? It is funny that you are doing the same :)3. This point is about letting the good hardworking tax paying contributors do the work in their own country. I think you got confused for a second.4. No thanks. Your hatred and vitriol make you unappealing to me.

babygoat:So keep complaining about it and maybe someone will fix it for you.

Good idea. How about we vote as well as let our leaders know that this needs to be fixed?Do you honestly think that shutting down the mindless attacks against those who oppose illegals is excludes complaining to our representatives and how we vote?

Elbarfo:What, you think they'd deliberately misconstrue the numbers just before an election? No way man...

No, I totally believe that only 8% of all able-bodied people between the ages of 21 of 65 don't have full employment.

Also, I remember all the screaming in the last 6 months of W's term when unemployment was 5.5% that "Yeah but people are UNDER employed!" We're not hearing a lot of that, now, not even when obviously bogus numbers are coming out of the current administration.

Just because you voted for Obama doesn't mean you can't admit the numbers are fishy.

browntimmy:LaughingRadish: Let's assume that the September job numbers are legitimate and that Obama had something to do with it. We're talking about a man who had nearly four years to do SOMETHING to get the US economy back on its feet and hiring people and only now he has some piddling fraction of a percentage point to show for it? That's not what I consider a "good job". That's like a juvenile delinquent expecting to be valedictorian because he somehow squeaked by with a D instead of an F this time.

You've apparently ignored the hundreds of charts showing unemployment was on it's way down when he took office and is now on the way back up. I'm betting you're also the type that cries about gas prices being twice what they were when Obama took office in '09 and forgetting that they were even higher than now in the summer of '08.

"...now on the way back up." Did you mean to say the opposite? Agreeing with me does jive with the rest of what you wrote. I'm looking at the gas prices and hope that they doesn't get to the point they were in '08. Other than that, I'm not sure what you're attempting to refute.

LaughingRadish:browntimmy: LaughingRadish: Let's assume that the September job numbers are legitimate and that Obama had something to do with it. We're talking about a man who had nearly four years to do SOMETHING to get the US economy back on its feet and hiring people and only now he has some piddling fraction of a percentage point to show for it? That's not what I consider a "good job". That's like a juvenile delinquent expecting to be valedictorian because he somehow squeaked by with a D instead of an F this time.

You've apparently ignored the hundreds of charts showing unemployment was on it's way down when he took office and is now on the way back up. I'm betting you're also the type that cries about gas prices being twice what they were when Obama took office in '09 and forgetting that they were even higher than now in the summer of '08.

"...now on the way back up." Did you mean to say the opposite? Agreeing with me does jive with the rest of what you wrote. I'm looking at the gas prices and hope that they doesn't get to the point they were in '08. Other than that, I'm not sure what you're attempting to refute.

GORDON:Elbarfo: What, you think they'd deliberately misconstrue the numbers just before an election? No way man...

No, I totally believe that only 8% of all able-bodied people between the ages of 21 of 65 don't have full employment.

Also, I remember all the screaming in the last 6 months of W's term when unemployment was 5.5% that "Yeah but people are UNDER employed!" We're not hearing a lot of that, now, not even when obviously bogus numbers are coming out of the current administration.

Just because you voted for Obama doesn't mean you can't admit the numbers are fishy.

The sarcasm whoosed right by you there, didn't it, Sherlock.

No worries, I wouldn't vote for Obama even if Obamagirl herself gave me a beej.