To be honest, I don't think it's fair or realistic to paint such an unflattering picture of the AR movement and then expect somebody who is deeply connected to it not to take that personally.

Maybe he could have been gentler in what he said, but he's probably not the only one. And I say that without any hostility or anger. I like you and of course I think the world of him- I don't want to see you fight.

It's not common for vowel pronounciatons in acronyms to differ from the base words. Take fubar for example, it's pronounced with a long o sound rather than the u in up, simply because it rolls off the tongue better that way. ASAP is another one, using a longer a rather than the clipped a in as. It's just about pronouncability.

Whether you asked for emotional responses or not, the original post reads a bit hostile.

Who the f* cares how people pronounce it? Maybe we pronounce it the way we do because it is easier than trying to say "pet-ah" like we are talking about our cat and then exhaling after a sip of Diet Coke.

This entire thread is just a lame attempt to crap all over a decent organization working for a goal everyone ought to support in a civilized world.

I don't think that the sound of the word "ethical" has anything to do with the acronym. The acronym is a totally separate word, made up of the first letters of the words in the name of the organization. Once the letters are extracted, it doesn't matter what the originating words were, or how they sounded.

That's just foolishness, and like I said in another post here, a lame excuse to bring PETA up so people can rag on it.

...since the term "pet" implies a patriarchical, human-dominant relationship. Remember, we must use the proper "PC" language to shield ourselves from somebody's true status, because apparently reality is too hard for some people to deal with).

So, instead of being batshit insane, you are now "have a brain disease".Instead of being bald, you are now "folically challenged"Instead of being a fucking moran, you are now "mentally challenged"Instead of being a total dickhead asshat fuckwhistle, you are now "socially impaired".

Some people think that making the language do acrobatics to suit their perceived slights is the same as addressing the real problems in society. For example, calling my pet cats "companion animals" does nothing to alleviate the fact that, as domesticated critters, they are dependent upon me for shelter and food.

Another example: I have a chronic, long-term mental illness that could very well kill me before I reach age 50. I honestly don't care if you call me crazy, insane, apeshit, "fucked in the head", whatever. What I DO care about is that my mental illness receives the same kind of treatment and coverage that any other chronic illness (like cancer) receives.

The difference is well pointed out in your second paragraph. I wouldn't call you any of those things. If someone else set it forth, rather than call you "crazy, insane, etc" I'd flip it to "mental illness" as it's a better definition. AND I'd hope you got whatever treatement and coverage was available to you.

And maybe my cats could survive without me, but I doubt it. They're pretty low on the food chain around here.

And priorities has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Oh, and BTW, "mental illness" is now passé-- it's as derogatory as "mentally retarded". We are now people "who have a brain disease".

Quite frankly, I'd rather spend my time fighting factory farms (and preserving small-scale, humane farming) than going around hectoring my friends and coworkers for eating meat. I'd also rather tell my family where their fur comes from then getting in their face and yelling "FUR IS DEAD" or tossing paint on them because they're wearing fur.

There's many different ways to make your arguments. Alienating a potential ally with obnoxious, preachy behavior is not one of the better ways.

like I said, names are just names. I honestly do not give a shit what anybody calls it. What matters to me is that I (and other psychos) are not treated like 2nd class citizens because of something that is quite possibly biological and/or hereditary.

And I'm glad to hear you don't throw things or hector your friends. I actually have a lot of vegetarian/vegan friends, and was even a vegetarian myself for a couple years. And unfortunately, I know a lot of very "militant" AR people who end up alienating potential supporters, just because of their confrontational, humorless attitude.

Some people think that violent (physical or verbal) confrontation is the only way to get your message across. I don't agree with that-- and quite frankly I resent those who think that they can change my mind about an issue by trying to shout me down.

and if I continue on I'll end up posting the brazilian joke (we really don't need that).

I just wanted to say that I appreciated yours and flvegan's words on this thread-- the vast majority of which I agreed with, btw. We may differ on methodology, but at the end of the day I think we truly want the same (or very similar) end result.

I appreciate the efforts you have put forth and respect your opinions (and would be able to respect them more if my monitor would stop melting and warping while I type this). This has been an interesting debate, and I hope we can still walk out of this as allies, if not friends.

As for me, the lava lamps are making strange colors on the wall, and I've got "Piper At The Gates of Dawn" on the MP3 player. Off to lala land and then to bed.

but like any kind of rights movement, they exist. To deny that is to bury your head in the sand.Every movement has its wingnuts who refuse to acknowledge and respect their opponents, regardless of whether s/he agree with him/her or not.

And to me, that's the biggest obstacle. Why should I respect somebody who thinks that, if they shout louder than and verbally harass me and call me a "murderer", I will somehow come around to their way of thinking?

Seriously though, my sleeping medications are taking over, and it's time for the rational side of the brain to pack it in for the night. I just wanted to say that I appreciated the discussion and it was good to hear your side of things. Not everything we hear is exactly as it really is. THe only way to know for sure is to go to the source. THanks to you and LeftyMom for the great discussion. Have a peaceful evening!

All I did was ask why a specific acronymic letter gets pronounced in a way that defies logic: the logic being that the letter of an acronym be pronounced as if it were the donating word, and this is what I get.

Also, for those of us who are concerned with issues like animal experimentation, factory farming, antiobiotics and hormones in our food, as well as health issues connected with meat and dairy consumption, it is offensive.

64. good start. So are blocking factory farms, boycotting companies...

Large-scale factory hog farms are a big problem in many parts of the country. I have seen instances where local citizens have organized and stopped further construction of these farms-- or had them closed down outright.

Writing letters to meatpackers may not help. But boycotting their products, and educating your friends/neighbors about the benefits of small-scale, local agriculture will.

Not to mention the example you set in your own life. One of the reasons I became a vegetarian way back when (I'm an omnivore now) was because of the example of one of my veg friends. He is a kind, gentle, compassionate soul who lives his life in service to other people. He sets a great example by his day-to-day actions, his compassion, and his tolerance toward those who do may practice a different lifestyle.

He has had much more impact than any self-righteous in-your-face protester ever could.

All of these things done together is an effective strategy. I am vegan, and while I do not preach to people, I do get a lot of opportunities to share information when people ask me why. I always preface by asking if they really want to know.

With PET-ah, the second syllable disappears in speaking and it's easy to misunderstand. The same reason why TV announcers say "AA-dult" instead of "uh-DULT", even though I've never met a person who says the former in actual spoken conversation.

Most of the time your posts are fair and logical; you seem to be the voice of reason, the calm in the storm. But I don't much appreciate this post. I didn't really expect such generalizations and name-calling from you.

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