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What does "theoretically" mean? I have long been using a set of Norton diamond plates (extra coarse, fine, extra fine) and finishing with a black hard Arkansas stone followed by a leather strop. My pocket knives are D2 and SV30 (Benchmark and Spyderco, respectively), and I have an O-1 Mad Dog Lab Rat, and they all get hair-popping sharp. My kitchen knives are Wüsthoff and get shaving sharp - for a while. A short while. I got them when I thought knives were Solingen über alles. I have been lurking and learning on this forum and deciding what to get when my wife finally thinks we can afford Japanese knives and that “sharp” doesn't just mean “it will cut”. Sigh...She just doesn't get it...

I dream of Takedas and Konosukes and Tanakas - something carbon and hard that can take and keep a great edge and be, well, better than what I've got. I have looked at waterstones in the past but just never took the plunge (har har - come along, Blind Jim). Will my Nortons make the cut? Or should I plan on sneaking in a set of Shaptons, too? Not that I can sneak anything past my wife...

_________________Fall down seven times, get up eight. - Buddhist proverbA man without a good knife is a dead man. - Viking sayingIf we don't point out ignorance and stupidity wherever they occur, ignorance and stupidity will think it's okay. - Gallagher

Adam Marr

Post subject: Re: DMT to waterstones

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:55 pm

Forum Moderator

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:36 pmPosts: 3125

Theoretically, in this case at least, means you could. I simply wouldn't. The 8,000 grit DMT diamond plate is very fine and a knife properly sharpened with a broken in plate will be very sharp.

Diamonds are very aggressive cutters...especially when new. A broken in DMT Extra Extra Fine is nothing like a brand new one.....I would never use a brand new DMT Extra Extra fine and expect a good edge. The diamonds are still too aggressive.

I also don't think the finer DMT plates last very long.

So, you can certainly use diamond plates exclusively.....whether you like the results or not is very personal preference kind of stuff. I don't.

Depending on what you buy and what you want to achieve with it, the Shapton Glass Stones are great. They are mist-and-go, cut reasonably quickly, and are capable of cutting and refining very thin angles on both soft and hard steels. They are precise, almost to a fault -- they will cut the angle pretty much exactly as you ask them to, even if it is the "wrong" angle. I like my 500, 2k, 6k Glass Stone progression very much and it has served me well at home including old Sabatier, German stainless, stamped Forschner/Victorinox blades, classic Japanese carbon, VG-10, and Cowry-X.

The more I sharpen different knives with different steels and constructions, the more I come to the conclusion that there is no "perfect" stone or set of stones. I'm tending to like the subtle difference in edge character that a "natural" Meara gives me -- a little rough and toothy so it slices amazingly easily -- compared to the "exactly all the same grit size" of something like the Glass Stone and most other synthetics. Some stones give your knife a "misty" look to the edge, some (like the Glass Stones) can give it a mirror-like polish, even at moderate grit sizes (5 or 6k, for example). Some stones wear down or "dish" quickly, others are hard to even notice that they are wearing at all in home use.

For me? This week? I'm feeling lazy and liking:

Atoma 140 -- only if knife needs major reshaping

Nubatama Bamboo 150 -- if I need to thin the knife

Nubatama Ume 1000 ("Speckled, Medium")

Meara

But wait -- If I want something even more screamingly sharp, I'll follow with a Yaginoshima. Feeling less lazy and I'll put a Tajima in before the Meara. Wanting a shiny edge and I'll go 500, 2k, 6k Shapton Glass Stone instead.

Oh, don't forget about stropping -- there are CBN and diamond compounds, and nano-cloth and kangaroo leather, and,...

Good news? Get a decent stone in the 2-6k range and you're already ahead of the game. You can use your existing stones to get to the 1-2k level and finish on your new stone. Once you have one, decide what you do and don't like about it, or what you want different in your finished edge, and you can add another.

Other good news? As much as I love my Konosuke knives, one of my favorites is still a $30-class kurouchi-over-who-knows-what santoku. There are lots of affordable knives here that can get screamingly sharp and hold an edge plenty well enough for several weeks of home use. I've got a Murata funayuki coming tomorrow for under $100, there are others in the same class that have gotten good reviews from experienced knife people and professional cooks here on the site. I also know I don't feel too badly when I muck up sharpening a sub-$100 knife, compared to something a step or two up in price.

Jnani

Post subject: Re: DMT to waterstones

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:16 am

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:23 amPosts: 88Location: Rockwall, Texas

My diamonds are over 15 years old, and very well broken in. Waterstones, though, have fascinated me for a long time. Browsing this site is like...well, in my terms, like a surgeon going into the wrong room and ending up in a cardiology conference. So many choices, so many nuances, and a lot of WTF?

Some of my mottos are: get the best you can afford; what is best for one is not necessarily best for another; cost and quality are two very different things; and you can never have too many knives. My wife would add that I always want something a little better - and that "M.D." doesn't mean "mucho dough".

_________________Fall down seven times, get up eight. - Buddhist proverbA man without a good knife is a dead man. - Viking sayingIf we don't point out ignorance and stupidity wherever they occur, ignorance and stupidity will think it's okay. - Gallagher

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