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So, about that Karma leak...

I will miss the old Karma, but I am excited for the ability to play her without being judged (hopefully). That and if they are trying to make her into a utility mage, which it sounds like they are, she fits entirely into my midlane play style (and some of the most fun I have as supports). I don't really care about the fans though, but the traditional Karma skin is a nice touch, want to see how the new Sungoddess will look to see if I should buy it or not since she will become probably my most played mid.

Put a poll on top of this forum saying "Should Karma keep her fans?", With a simple "Yes" or "No".

If an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY (say %70+) say yes then that should be a clear indicator on where to steer karma.

PS: I know you guys are pretty-much finished with your Karma-rework project, and you've already funded and payed your design team to finish her so you could just release her on the PBE, but if your crew is payed per hour/on retainer then it's totally not a far-fetched idea to just go ahead and add the fans back; :3

Just going to throw my quick word in where people can downvote since I know people will complain about everything.

I like the update, the fans were a part of her character but were kinda pointless in the actual mechanics and skills. Only used for auto attacks and her q, both of which didn't look or feel like they should be fans anyway. I hope they keep the fans in her lore or in one of her skins for iconic value but all in all, I am okay with getting rid of them.

The new appearance is awesome and definitely more realistic and fitting for a leader then the dress/robes/whatever that she used to wear and by all rights should have tripped on every single step. The darker skin tone is pretty cool too. I don't think the amount of leg showing is necessary but for a combat dress, I sort of understand, thoguh I would have rather they give both her legs guards then but I'm guessing they didn't for artistic value by not having them both look the same(I think there is an art concept for this where you don't want both sides of something looking exactly the same for some reason but I don't really get into art much).

Karma was my first support and I really wanted to like her, but I could never play her with a good concenience(which says something since I have played every char and can run ever char "decently" well) so I am psyched for the rework, my only complaint is that she sounds like she is being made into a mid.

I personally liked the idea of this ungodly leader who leads by the backline like a tactician. Another reason it bothers me is that getting midlane is a pain and I don't want to fight people to get mid, I got her to be my first support and sad that I might not play her much if she makes the midlane transition so many new/reworked characters make.

Karma main here-- over 500 games played with her. I've been actually looking forward to this "remake" with trepidation, mainly because I rape face with her in Twisted Treeline and Dominion. I firmly believe there is nothing wrong with her kit per se, she just doesn't fit the meta of Summoner's Rift. Her ranking in both TT and Dominion prove that she is not inherently weak. Quite the contrary, bot her her burst and shield/heal abilities are top notch.

In any case, the ONLY thing I am praying is that her R+E combo is not redone/destroyed. It is the main component of her burst/harass and was a big part of what made her so fun.

Other than that:

1) As someone who has stuck by Karma from the start, and endured flames and catcalls for playing her, I feel that the "classic" skin should be reserved for those of us that have stood by her from the start. Will also allow for us purists to be differentiated from the newb Karmas on day one of her re-release

2) I like the new visual look, but I don't like the removal of her fans. The fans were cool and along with her Sakura Karma skin was a great look.

If I were Riot I would just leave the old Karma there untouched being the worst champion and the least popular one in the entire game for all the whinny dumbasses than can't embrace change for dear life and release this new Karma as a cool new champion for everyone else to love and enjoy.

Seriously guys, this IS good design, this IS art and the gameplay will probably blow our minds too, grow the f*ck up.

And since her will is her true, nay, only weapon, why is it such a crime if she chooses to let go of the fans?

Yes, because you lose the message when you lose the vehicle unfortunately.

I get what you mean, I do. From the visuals though, she has lost that "enlightenment". Karma had an air about her, she wasn't like playing any other champion. Her dress was impractical, her existence on the battlefield was different then a Sona or Morgana or Lux. You were playing a "noble fighter", a truly unique character. Her fans made her elegant. She didn't belong there, but she was there, fighting.

Now she looks like she should be there, there is no impracticality. There is no more "I must do this despite the fact I'm not a warrior", now she looks like a fighter. There is no more nobleness to her. No more window back to the days when she meditated in a garden peacefully. The new Karma has none of this. So it is more than fans, but the fans were the biggest part, they carried the most weight in her visual story.

You make some pretty good points too. What I mean isn't really that she has no personality at all, of course, just that her personality will probably be a lot more generic. More of a fighter kind of thing that many other female champions already represent. The design and even her posture in the few screenshots definitely seem to suggest that.

I don't think we have any female fighters that look anywhere close to the way Karma's looking in those shots...but that's just me.

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See, the point is... Why? Why can't we just have a leader that is calm and collected in the way she dresses, the way she behaves and the way she fights? Why does the single character that fits that description have to get changed so dramatically to fit into a completely different archetype? Why do we, the players, have to adapt and reimagine all this weird new personality/lore thing to convince ourselves that she had a midlife crisis and decided to become a sexy girl fighter?

What about this seems to have changed from calm and collected? Splash art alone portrays more of a sense of serene calm than the old. We haven't seen the animations for this one though...

I don't see how Karma is dramatically changed outside of getting rid of that terrible, terrible dress, and allowing herself to be able to move...which actually makes sense, even for a political leader.

I can't even begin to talk about your third question because really it makes no sense if you think about it.....<sarcasm>Yeah its totally weird for a character around balance, who's become a figurehead/symbol of her country to then also embody the balance between the newfound strength of said country and the mysticism and old ways....</sarcasm>

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She was the politician. The spiritual leader. Maybe she could've been a religious leader of some sort, but why did she have to be transformed in the battlefield leader? There's the politician, and there's the soldier. Two very different things. The complete shift in her personality and lore just isn't believable or justifiable.

She was a leader, she was a fighter. This was already in her current lore. She went to FIGHT in the league for her country. Not talk to Darius and Singed about having better relations...but to Fight and represent her country. But now its completely unacceptable for her to be more of a fighter....