vygramul:DamnYankees: vygramul: That was a great scene. I've never been a particular fan of McConaughey, but he's farking great in this and that scene is just an example of it.

You been watching him the last few years? He's turned into one of the best actors alive right now. Mud, Magic Mike, The Wolf of Wall Street are all farking great performances. He's also supposedly great in Killer Joe and Dallas Buyers Club but I haven't seen those.

I'm still thinking Marty but never picked up on the photo or the can men. The Barbie thing has always bothered me. Just frigging creepy. So now I'm thinking Marty and the boys get along better than they lead on. I don't know about Tuttle. But I think Marty is key and his daughter is actin out because of what she knows about her dad. She made a comment about not looking like he wants women tolook. Sounds like a jab at his affair but maybe it's more sinister.

another flat circle - like the beer can Rust crushes, and the spiral tattoos, and the new style lenses on the cameras they are being taped with in the interviews.everything is repeating itself, even at the site of their 1st body, and not a damn thing can be done to stop it.

Blues_X:DamnYankees: aiiee: One of the best scenes I've seen in a long time: Rust and Dr girlfriend watching tv and all she does is go from channel to channel. Not a word said but the scene spoke volumes.

Can you expand on that? I'm missing the genius there. Seemed like a pretty normal b-roll scene to me.

It showed his growing detachment, instead of warming up to the relationship. Same planets different worlds. All that.

Here is my take on that scene...

I think that Rust has been undercover all this time. The new detectives mention that he has been off the grid for the past several years. I think he knows that he is going to have to leave her to go back undercover and he is contemplating that while she is sitting there happy just to be with him.

It is either that or he has been under over through the whole te (even when he was with the state police) which explains to me his spartan living conditions at his apartment.

Either way, that scene with the girlfriend made me incredibly sad even before I figured out why. It was brilliant.

Another alternative is of course that Marty actually did it - he's more farked up than Cole is.

Marty would make a much better answer. He was all farked up before the first guy, and he started slipping when his daughter became my kind of woman.

Not that I'm fully buying Marty is the guy, but here's a couple of things to ponder -- Marty's F-I-L seems to be rich and powerful man - just the type that would be part of the group in the swamp doing the killings with the Yellow King- just before he aerates Ledoux's head, the camera hung for just a beat as the two shared a glance. Did Ledoux recognize Marty? Marty could have been brought along by FIL to one of those 'meetings' down in the swamp- Marty is(was) a blonde, and the only really yellow blonde (if memory serves) in the cast- the stars on the Lone Star cans are yellow and make the can figures' heads yellow as well

To your first point, Marty's also popular. He has a lot of influence - Rust was kept on largely because of Marty's vouching for him. Marty also got a promotion while Rust only got a commendation.

Then again, why would Marty want the most meticulous outsider? Maybe Marty's trying to figure out who's gone off the cult reservation?

I don't totally buy into that either, but it's a better fit and less dissatisfying a notion than Rust.

DamnYankees:elvisaintdead: - Marty's F-I-L seems to be rich and powerful man - just the type that would be part of the group in the swamp doing the killings with the Yellow King

This is one of the reasons I really don't like the theory in TFA; it just reminds me of Hot Fuzz. This theory basically lets us propose a conspiracy theory whereby every powerful person in the storyline is part of a mass conspiracy to be in a cult? I'm not saying it can't be true, just that I don't see evidence of it, and that doesn't seem like the show I've been watching.

It is like Hot Fuzz, but it's also like Shadow Over Innsmouth. And if they're doing more horror than the Yellow King references, then it might fit, especially if it's not just the town leaders who are in on it.

DamnYankees:Snapper Carr: Is it me or has Matthew McConaughey really improved as an actor over the last few years? I used to see him as kind of a likeable but definitely one note performer but everything he's been in from Killer Joe on, he's been phenomenal.

I'm not sure if he's improved his acting (he's always been good, even in stupid or bad movies), so much as he seems to have decided to just take more interesting work. Maybe he got to a point where he said "I've made enough money, now I'm interested in exploring the art more".

I think he has improved since A Time to Kill. But, then, maybe there was way too much pretty-boy talk about how awesome he was and it set my expectations higher than he could meet.

DamnYankees:ItchyMcDoogle: I think all signs lead to Hart. Even if he is not in on it there is someone in his inner circle who is ( Wife and/or Stepfather). I think when we find out why his oldest Daughter has been messed up in the head up since the get go we will find out who is the Yellow King. I think Harts wife knows more then she lets on.

I don't think this is it. TD so far has not shown itself to be the kind of show where they do this kind of "gotcha" twist. The family stuff is pretty straight up character drama; there's no additional explanation needed for 'why' his daughter is screwed up. They have a screwed up family. To introduce some plot line where they are actually involved in the murders would actually undermine the themes of the show.

Also, if the reports are correct, each new season will have a new cast and new story. They would have a long way to go in three episodes to develop this into something too much deeper than what we've seen.

Confabulat:I mentioned this in a thread about Ukraine the other day but it still amuses me so I'll type it again. The other day I was talking on the phone to my 78-year-old Ukrainian mother about the protests going on over there and she hadn't heard the first thing about it. This didn't surprise me cause my mom is 78 years old and doesn't really keep up with current events; even 30 years ago she pretty much only watched daytime soap operas and Quincy, so you know, that's my sweet old clueless mom. So I was telling her about what I knew about events in Ukraine and I said something about how history repeats itself. Mom immediately replies, "Well it's like Rust Chole said in True Detective last week, time is like a flat circle" and my mind was blown.

I was like Mom did you just drop a Rust Chole quote on me in a conversation about a completely unrelated matter? My hippest friends aren't that hippy hip!

It's made me reassess everything I thought I knew about the woman. Now I need to get her to make me a mix tape or something.

That's really funny.

I was watching when my housemate came in, heard them say something about the Yellow King and he laughed and said, "Carcosa?" I replied, "You've been watching?" He went from thinking he witnessed an unoriginal theft to a real show connection and started watching.

Confabulat:I mentioned this in a thread about Ukraine the other day but it still amuses me so I'll type it again. The other day I was talking on the phone to my 78-year-old Ukrainian mother about the protests going on over there and she hadn't heard the first thing about it. This didn't surprise me cause my mom is 78 years old and doesn't really keep up with current events; even 30 years ago she pretty much only watched daytime soap operas and Quincy, so you know, that's my sweet old clueless mom. So I was telling her about what I knew about events in Ukraine and I said something about how history repeats itself. Mom immediately replies, "Well it's like Rust Chole said in True Detective last week, time is like a flat circle" and my mind was blown.

I was like Mom did you just drop a Rust Chole quote on me in a conversation about a completely unrelated matter? My hippest friends aren't that hippy hip!

It's made me reassess everything I thought I knew about the woman. Now I need to get her to make me a mix tape or something.

Confabulat:DamnYankees: What do people make of the plot significance of the last scene of the most recent episode, with Rust going through the church and then finding all those devil catchers. What this supposed to be a plot twist? I was confused what we were supposed to think that meant, narratively.

I don't think was a church, it was a Sunday School-type place. All the more reason to suspect the reverend.

I thought it was a Christian or Catholic school. Isn't that where they visited early on and a guy on a riding mower was there?

But I think there has to be a tie-in with that photo of 5 horseman. I remember they lingered on that for a while, and never talked about it. It's such a weird photo. It can't be random.

That actually may be a red herring. Iirc that was in Eunice, LA, and that was a depiction of how they celebrate Mardi Gras there. A photo like that, odd as it may seem out of context, would actually be fairly commonplace.

I am actually from Eunice (getting a kick), and that photo was not at all odd to me. They did their homework there, it's authentic.

The scene with the abandoned church was a bit off though, no way that was shot anywhere near Eunice. Still, it's clear the writers have spent some time in the area. It's very well done.

This is part of why nothing's obscure on Fark. Who'd have expected we'd have someone from Eunice on here?

maybe it's because the whole Yellow King article colored my perception, but was Rust a very yellow-ish color in the last episode? There's always been a yellow filter being used, but it seemed very pronounced in the last episode. I'm not sure I really buy either Marty or Rust as the perpetrator, though I can see Rust being turned into the Yellow King.

DamnYankees:elguerodiablo: DamnYankees: What do people make of the plot significance of the last scene of the most recent episode, with Rust going through the church and then finding all those devil catchers. What this supposed to be a plot twist? I was confused what we were supposed to think that meant, narratively.

Devil Traps can be used as wards or as spell amplifiers. I just took it to show that a ritual had taken place there and to show Rust that the cult was still active.

One thing: I think they wouldn't have moved the boy's body had he been dead. But, then, I don't know that Louisiana in the '90s really felt they needed to do all that much recording of the crime scene.

MutantMotherMouse:vygramul: DamnYankees: vygramul: That was a great scene. I've never been a particular fan of McConaughey, but he's farking great in this and that scene is just an example of it.

You been watching him the last few years? He's turned into one of the best actors alive right now. Mud, Magic Mike, The Wolf of Wall Street are all farking great performances. He's also supposedly great in Killer Joe and Dallas Buyers Club but I haven't seen those.

I'm still thinking Marty but never picked up on the photo or the can men. The Barbie thing has always bothered me. Just frigging creepy. So now I'm thinking Marty and the boys get along better than they lead on. I don't know about Tuttle. But I think Marty is key and his daughter is actin out because of what she knows about her dad. She made a comment about not looking like he wants women tolook. Sounds like a jab at his affair but maybe it's more sinister.

See, I think Marty is clueless and that Maggie's dad is in the group, if not the King in Yellow. How many times has Marty said "the answer is right in front on me but I could not see it?" I think that he still has not figured it out but, to me, hints that it is close to him. That explains the Barbie rape scene and the dirty pictures drawn at school. Add in her acting out in high school and I feel she has to been exposed to the group but I just do not think it was Marty based on his reactions to both incidents.

Um, it's been mainstream for quite a while, most of us call it the Cthulhu Mythos, though.

Admittedly, I'm not really sure why since the King figures pretty prominently in 20 or 30 of the stories (even more than the Necronomicon) and Cthulhu in exactly one (apart from name-dropping), but still, it's apparently what we're calling it.

// Honestly, we should probably be calling it the Conan mythos since that's the path most of it took to get back into the main-stream of literature.

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy:I think the key here is madness. Everyone who gets too close to the heart of the mystery goes nuts---as it is with the fictional play "The King in Yellow"

So Rust and Marty might not have been in on it from the beginning but I'd put money on at least one of them going to the dark side by the end of the season.

I'm inclined to believe that Marty ends up dead and Rust ends up insane, like the end of any good Lovecraft work. To some degree, it could be that Rust's original cynicism goes from typical to realized and that's what destroys his sanity. I guess it would demonstrate that a cynic is an optimist who doesn't want to get their hopes up.

Another alternative is of course that Marty actually did it - he's more farked up than Cole is.

Marty would make a much better answer. He was all farked up before the first guy, and he started slipping when his daughter became my kind of woman.

Not that I'm fully buying Marty is the guy, but here's a couple of things to ponder -- Marty's F-I-L seems to be rich and powerful man - just the type that would be part of the group in the swamp doing the killings with the Yellow King- just before he aerates Ledoux's head, the camera hung for just a beat as the two shared a glance. Did Ledoux recognize Marty? Marty could have been brought along by FIL to one of those 'meetings' down in the swamp- Marty is(was) a blonde, and the only really yellow blonde (if memory serves) in the cast- the stars on the Lone Star cans are yellow and make the can figures' heads yellow as well

To your first point, Marty's also popular. He has a lot of influence - Rust was kept on largely because of Marty's vouching for him. Marty also got a promotion while Rust only got a commendation.

Then again, why would Marty want the most meticulous outsider? Maybe Marty's trying to figure out who's gone off the cult reservation?

I don't totally buy into that either, but it's a better fit and less dissatisfying a notion than Rust.

Lsherm:elvisaintdead: vygramul: I thought it was a Christian or Catholic school. Isn't that where they visited early on and a guy on a riding mower was there?

it was a Catholic school - the guy on the mower said he was sent by the parish to cut the grass

which also means he probably has a pretty good idea of what is going on in the building if he visits every few weeks and inspects the propery

I think it was a public school. Counties in Louisiana are called parishes.

I thought it was Catholic because of the statue of Mary under which Cohle goes to get to the room with the devil catchers. But back then, I could believe a Southern school still allowed blatant displays of religion.

Another alternative is of course that Marty actually did it - he's more farked up than Cole is.

Marty would make a much better answer. He was all farked up before the first guy, and he started slipping when his daughter became my kind of woman.

Not that I'm fully buying Marty is the guy, but here's a couple of things to ponder -- Marty's F-I-L seems to be rich and powerful man - just the type that would be part of the group in the swamp doing the killings with the Yellow King- just before he aerates Ledoux's head, the camera hung for just a beat as the two shared a glance. Did Ledoux recognize Marty? Marty could have been brought along by FIL to one of those 'meetings' down in the swamp- Marty is(was) a blonde, and the only really yellow blonde (if memory serves) in the cast- the stars on the Lone Star cans are yellow and make the can figures' heads yellow as well

To your first point, Marty's also popular. He has a lot of influence - Rust was kept on largely because of Marty's vouching for him. Marty also got a promotion while Rust only got a commendation.

Then again, why would Marty want the most meticulous outsider? Maybe Marty's trying to figure out who's gone off the cult reservation?

I don't totally buy into that either, but it's a better fit and less dissatisfying a notion than Rust.

I wonder if Marty had hoped to groom Rust for their cult.

Possibly. But a cult, no matter what flavor or manifestation, seems too complicated an answer to explore in three episodes. Then again, movies have done a lot in two hours. Three is plenty.

Wild Eyed and Wicked:See, I think Marty is clueless and that Maggie's dad is in the group, if not the King in Yellow. How many times has Marty said "the answer is right in front on me but I could not see it?" I think that he still has not figured it out but, to me, hints that it is close to him. That explains the Barbie rape scene and the dirty pictures drawn at school. Add in her acting out in high school and I feel she has to been exposed to the group but I just do not think it was Marty based on his reactions to both incidents.

I find it interesting that the show has repeatedly alluded to the girls killing themselves or one another: the scene with the fishing lines on the canoe, the fight over the tiara, the disturbing silence from Audrey's room after the fight with her parents.

Since I'm inclined to think there is a slow buildup to genuine supernatural mindfark horror going on here, I wouldn't be surprised if whatever "shadow" is supposedly following Rust has cast itself over Marty's family.

that does seem to support the idea that Marty's daughter knows something (it was obviously drawn by her), but I still wouldn't say Marty necessarily knows anything. It's possible his father in law his connections, but I don't think he thinks too highly of Marty.

I like the theory presented in the link - but I'm very intrigued by the Marty speculations and supporting evidence into it. Seems like it's just 'TOO' obvious for Chole to be YK - his oddness from everyone around him makes him an easy frame, but I just don't see it.

Random notes:

- HBO is taking an American Horror Story route with this series, and 1.) this is awesome, and 2.) I just hope they don't go with the shiatty endings AHS seems intent on. The story seems far to intricate for them to drop the ball with it like AHS does. (Can anyone explain the farking Aliens from AHS: Asylum....anyone?) But I am wondering what happened to drive Cohle to the sad life he clearly seems to be living.

- McConaughey needs to give a big, giant fat raise to whoever is picking scripts for him: He really has turned out phenomenal work over the past few years. And unless the Dern 'deserves it for longevity' vote reigns supreme, The Oscar this year is MM's to lose (He really does blow the doors off - as does Leto.)

- TD should mop the floor for mini series Emmies: Aside from acting - the makeup people have managed to make MM look....invisible. (Present day Chole looks so non-descript he's very 'ignorable': Having seen MM in person....that guy is dropping your jaw with his physical perfection and billion dollar grin.) Thank GOD it's an anthology, so should easily fit into the mini series like AHS does - because NOTHING will beat Cranston/BB in drama this year...and MM deserves every award they can throw at him for his stellar work.

- I heard the WoW Chest Thump was something MM does to get into character, Scorsese loved it, and it was added to that scene - and it was awesome! (Honestly, MM's 5 minutes in WoW was 10 times more memorable and better than Cooper's work in American Hustle...but felating AH seems to be some weird bender Hollywood is on....but MM could have easily taken Cooper's supporting actor slot with his part in WoW and I wouldn't have been the least bit disappointed. And, before anyone says it was too short - Dench did win for what...7 minutes of screen time in Shakespeare in Love?)

Jim_Callahan:Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: I can't believe The King in Yellow Mythos is basically going mainstream.

Um, it's been mainstream for quite a while, most of us call it the Cthulhu Mythos, though.

Admittedly, I'm not really sure why since the King figures pretty prominently in 20 or 30 of the stories (even more than the Necronomicon) and Cthulhu in exactly one (apart from name-dropping), but still, it's apparently what we're calling it.

// Honestly, we should probably be calling it the Conan mythos since that's the path most of it took to get back into the main-stream of literature.

No, I wouldn't call it mainstream, not at all. That average TV watchers are learning about it and you're getting articles in magazines? That's entirely new for the Chalmers stuff.

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste:No, I wouldn't call it mainstream, not at all. That average TV watchers are learning about it and you're getting articles in magazines? That's entirely new for the Chalmers stuff.

Eh, everyone's familiar with the core elements -- sinister supernatural forces up every tree, things man was not meant to know, writings that drive the reader mad, etc. It was a major plot or setting element in basically every third movie made in the '70s, and yes I'm including the porn. Chalmers was mostly riffing on Bierce, too, and he's not exactly an obscure literary figure either.

The only reason you didn't see it in the 80s and 90s is that horror and pulp literature in general kinda got comics-coded out of existence in the '80s and the attempt to revive it in the 90s was so far up its own ass that the geometry qualified it as an outer god in itself until we got back into the swing of it (or rather picked up where we'd left off) in the early '00s.

// Requiring that everyone be able to list off individual Mythos writers and characters as a prerequisite for it being main-stream is a bit like saying War and Peace isn't a well-known and influential part of western literature because the average person cant' list all eleventy billion characters by heart.

Slow To Return:Am I mistaken in remembering that Hart shot Ledoux before Ledoux had a chance to lay eyes on him?

I thought Ledoux turned his head to look at him and might have got a moment to see. But considering that Cohle was yelling, "MARTY!" and these were state cops, I'd bet if Ledoux knew him, he'd have a pretty good idea who it was even without seeing.

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Cannot wait for tonight. It's been years since I've been THIS involved in a new TV programme.

Just pointing out that you missed a song. This was the song that played during credits right after the bad ass 6 minute constant shoot.

One thing: I think they wouldn't have moved the boy's body had he been dead. But, then, I don't know that Louisiana in the '90s really felt they needed to do all that much recording of the crime scene.

Yeah, when I was a journalism major (prior to switching majors for reasons neither here nor there), we were instructed never to attempt to place pictures of deceased persons on the front page...ever.

But again, it's (damn good) fiction.

As for the quesition waaaaay above re: should the poster start watching:: habitually I DVR the shows I enjoy by the season and view them in a marathon. This show is so good and the pilot episode so strong that I just...couldn't...do it. The compulsion to watch is that strong. That's never ever happened before. Even for shows I thought were can't-stop-watching good.

vygramul:Slow To Return: Am I mistaken in remembering that Hart shot Ledoux before Ledoux had a chance to lay eyes on him?

I thought Ledoux turned his head to look at him and might have got a moment to see. But considering that Cohle was yelling, "MARTY!" and these were state cops, I'd bet if Ledoux knew him, he'd have a pretty good idea who it was even without seeing.

LeDoux was on 50 kinds of God knows what at the time: Someone that high might have difficulty recognizing themselves. lol

One thing: I think they wouldn't have moved the boy's body had he been dead. But, then, I don't know that Louisiana in the '90s really felt they needed to do all that much recording of the crime scene.

Yeah, when I was a journalism major (prior to switching majors for reasons neither here nor there), we were instructed never to attempt to place pictures of deceased persons on the front page...ever.

But again, it's (damn good) fiction.

As for the quesition waaaaay above re: should the poster start watching:: habitually I DVR the shows I enjoy by the season and view them in a marathon. This show is so good and the pilot episode so strong that I just...couldn't...do it. The compulsion to watch is that strong. That's never ever happened before. Even for shows I thought were can't-stop-watching good.

Agreed. I'm not much of a TV watcher in the first place, but I can't get enough of this show. I find myself watching the DVRs over and over.

ItchyMcDoogle:I think all signs lead to Hart. Even if he is not in on it there is someone in his inner circle who is ( Wife and/or Stepfather). I think when we find out why his oldest Daughter has been messed up in the head up since the get go we will find out who is the Yellow King. I think Harts wife knows more then she lets on.

I don't think Rust has anything to do with it and is just trying to find out what the heck is going on and who the killers are. But then agian Rust is majorly farked up( Hallucinations, Heavy Drug Use when undercover and pill popper in the early episodes, Very farked up former home life and work life when he worked narco),. Id be really surprised if it turns out Rust had anything to do with it. But still the guy has deep issues.

Im both bummed that there are only 3 episodes left but I want to see them dammit. But I agree its nice to have a week to chew on the episodes since they give you so much to think on

Great Show I hope it finishes off great that has me the most worried is how it will end

Holy crap, I forgot all about the daughter's Barbie/Ken dolls and the drawings. That ties in with her behavior as a teen. She was raped as a child but somehow survived and didn't tell anyone about it, because it was Marty, her Dad, who she loved, who turned her over to the rapists.

BeatrixK:vygramul: Slow To Return: Am I mistaken in remembering that Hart shot Ledoux before Ledoux had a chance to lay eyes on him?

I thought Ledoux turned his head to look at him and might have got a moment to see. But considering that Cohle was yelling, "MARTY!" and these were state cops, I'd bet if Ledoux knew him, he'd have a pretty good idea who it was even without seeing.

LeDoux was on 50 kinds of God knows what at the time: Someone that high might have difficulty recognizing themselves. lol

True enough. I was really responding to whether Ledoux had opportunity to recognize, not mental faculty to recognize.