A third party is needed, not a cult of personality. It needs to be founded on a set of principles and guided by them not the whims of any one person no matter how well intentioned.

The biggest call that Perot made where he was absolutely correct and the Democrats and Republicans were just outright lying on behalf of their wealthy donor friends was that if we removed all the financial penalties for moving the manufacturing jobs outside the US, then the giant sucking sound we would hear would be all the manufacturing jobs leaving America.

StoPPeRmobile:Lady Indica: Having children mindlessly recite a loyalty oath is farking creepy with or without the god part.

I believe in one God,the Father almighty,maker of heaven and earth,of all things visible and invisible.I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,the Only Begotten Son of God,born of the Father before all ages.God from God, Light from Light,true God from true God,begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;through him all things were made.For us men and for our salvationhe came down from heaven,and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,and became man.For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,he suffered death and was buried,and rose again on the third dayin accordance with the Scriptures.He ascended into heavenand is seated at the right hand of the Father.He will come again in gloryto judge the living and the deadand his kingdom will have no end.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,who proceeds from the Father and the Son,who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,who has spoken through the prophets.I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sinsand I look forward to the resurrection of the deadand the life of the world to come. Amen.

I remember the Mormon church 'Bearing Testimony' during Sacrament (I think that was what it was called). Anyways, normally the speech would start with "I know this church is true". Similar to a meet and greet at an AA meeting, but much less fun. Now imagine happening about 4 times during the service.Affirmation is a hell of a thing.

Well that was a farking impotent gesture that won't cause any change whatsoever. Training another generation of armchair activists who will still roll over and take it from the government, I see.

Congress isn't going to take shiat seriously until this starts hitting them where it counts, in their wallets. People need to start taking matters into their own hands and actually changing their behaviors in response to this provocation.

eatin' fetus:Perot lost a long time ago due to having thin convictions that played the centrists perfectly

His conviction that the rich should not be allowed to abandon America's middle class by moving all the jobs to Mexico and China without facing financial penalties when they brought the finished goods back into the US for sale was right on the farking money.

A third party is needed, not a cult of personality. It needs to be founded on a set of principles and guided by them not the whims of any one person no matter how well intentioned.

The biggest call that Perot made where he was absolutely correct and the Democrats and Republicans were just outright lying on behalf of their wealthy donor friends was that if we removed all the financial penalties for moving the manufacturing jobs outside the US, then the giant sucking sound we would hear would be all the manufacturing jobs leaving America.

Now you can look at Detroit and see just how right he was.

NAFTA ruined the industry in the US. But it also ushered in the era of cheap crap, so there's that.

If you had told me in 1993 that I could buy a brand new TV, 50 inches, for $400 I would have slapped you.

generallyso:Why do we force children to make daily pledges of fealty they don't understand? It's creepy and disturbing like something out of a communist dictatorship except I've never heard of one doing that.

Loyalty oaths were usually requested whenever you did something of even minor importance in communist dictatorships.

StoPPeRmobile:Lady Indica: Having children mindlessly recite a loyalty oath is farking creepy with or without the god part.

I believe in one God,the Father almighty,maker of heaven and earth,of all things visible and invisible.I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,the Only Begotten Son of God,born of the Father before all ages.God from God, Light from Light,true God from true God,begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;through him all things were made.For us men and for our salvationhe came down from heaven,and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,and became man.For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,he suffered death and was buried,and rose again on the third dayin accordance with the Scriptures.He ascended into heavenand is seated at the right hand of the Father.He will come again in gloryto judge the living and the deadand his kingdom will have no end.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,who proceeds from the Father and the Son,who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,who has spoken through the prophets.I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sinsand I look forward to the resurrection of the deadand the life of the world to come. Amen.

Raised Catholic, I can still recite the Nicene Creed as it was written in the missals in the 80s. Get 'em while they're young.

The whole thing never made sense to me. Never occurred to me that I wasn't wrong, I just bashed my head against it for a long time trying to understand it. The Stainless Steel Rat (Jim DiGriz, main character, book series by Harry Harrison) was the first atheist I 'met' as a kid, first time I realized that there were people who didn't believe.

I really had no idea that other people existed who didn't believe.

Didn't really have bad experiences as a Catholic, one or two things at school but nothing that wouldn't have happened in a public school. Overall it was very positive. And full of ritual and recital, there's some unhealthy appeal that it has for humans.

skinink:I pledge allegiance to the flag covering the united naughty bits of this woman.[cdn01.dailycaller.com image 630x394]One fantasy, under darkness and not visible, with orgasms and releases for all.

skinink:I pledge allegiance to the flag covering the united naughty bits of this woman.[cdn01.dailycaller.com image 630x394]One fantasy, under darkness and not visible, with orgasms and releases for all.

As absurd as mindless recitation of the Pledge may be, trying to tie it to the shutdown somehow manages to be more absurd. All it does is confuse the issue, confuse students, and upset parents for no positive accomplishment. If you're going to stop reciting the Pledge in school every day, do it because reciting the Pledge every day is a farking asinine thing to do, not because of some made-up shiat - you'll still upset parents just as much, but at least you'd be making an honest stand.

The other day my 6 year old came home and told me that he thinks it's weird to talk about god in school. When they make him recite the pledge he's chosen instead to say, "one nation, under donuts, with liberty and donuts for all."

It was one of those moments where I knew that I probably ought to give him some sort of lecture about being patriotic, but instead I told him I was proud that he took a stand for something he believes in instead of doing something simply because someone in a position of power said he should.

Millions of immigrants are more than happy to swear allegiance to this country when they get their citizenship, and are willing to do almost whatever it takes to get the privilege to make that oath. Yet we have people BORN in this country who are willing to do almost whatever it takes to not only get out of the oath, but to prevent others from saying it even when they want to.

Ricardo Klement:generallyso: Why do we force children to make daily pledges of fealty they don't understand? It's creepy and disturbing like something out of a communist dictatorship except I've never heard of one doing that.

Loyalty oaths were usually requested whenever you did something of even minor importance in communist dictatorships.

I like how you take a question about America, take it and run with it, and end up with an attack on communism, which no one was really talking about.

Soo..does that mean McCarthy was a communist? He wanted loyalty pledges.

generallyso:Why do we force children to make daily pledges of fealty they don't understand? It's creepy and disturbing like something out of a communist dictatorship except I've never heard of one doing that.

Image vaguely related:[i.imgur.com image 375x563]

fealty....now there's a word you don't see every day. Actually one of my earliest remembrances of the pledge is an elementary school teacher I had comparing it to communist propaganda. That was the 70s though. Teachers could freely state their educated opinions without getting fired.

fusillade762:Some students were outraged by the decision, and one woman said her son stood up in class and recited the pledge anyway.

Good for him. Always refreshing when they spout their political indoctrination voluntarily.

I think reciting the pledge of allegiance is just about the dumbest thing you could do with your time (I'm Canadian), but you can bet your ass I'd be belting it out if a teacher told me I couldn't because of a government shutdown. You have to fight idiocy at all levels.

Southern100:Millions of immigrants are more than happy to swear allegiance to this country when they get their citizenship, and are willing to do almost whatever it takes to get the privilege to make that oath. Yet we have people BORN in this country who are willing to do almost whatever it takes to not only get out of the oath, but to prevent others from saying it even when they want to.

I shouldn't be surprised. I always am, but I shouldn't be.

No you are factually incorrect. The flag oath is unconstitutional and un-Christian. It states loyalty to an object not a country, constitution, or set of ideals. It's straight up idol worship. Please try to understand the difference between an oath such as oath to join the military to support and defend the constitution vs an oath to an inanimate object.

BullBearMS:Day_Old_Dutchie: This whole "trying to blame things on the shutdown to score some points" thing is really getting far too silly.

It's part of the "who can be more petulant than a third grader" contest the two parties are having.

Thankfully, America is paying attetion.

Americans have never been more eager for a third party in American politics as the government shutdown continues to generate record levels of frustration, according to a new poll.

Sixty percent believe Democrats and Republicans are doing such a poor job a third party is needed, according to a Gallup poll out Friday, a record high in the 10 years Gallup has polled on the question. Similarly, a record-low number of Americans - 26 percent - said the current two major parties adequately represent Americans.

Also for the first time in the poll's history, when broken down by party, a majority of both Democrats and Republicans say a third party is needed.

So we can count on, what, 5% of us following through and voting for a 3rd party?

brandent:Southern100: Millions of immigrants are more than happy to swear allegiance to this country when they get their citizenship, and are willing to do almost whatever it takes to get the privilege to make that oath. Yet we have people BORN in this country who are willing to do almost whatever it takes to not only get out of the oath, but to prevent others from saying it even when they want to.

I shouldn't be surprised. I always am, but I shouldn't be.

No you are factually incorrect. The flag oath is unconstitutional and un-Christian. It states loyalty to an object not a country, constitution, or set of ideals. It's straight up idol worship. Please try to understand the difference between an oath such as oath to join the military to support and defend the constitution vs an oath to an inanimate object.

The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an expression of loyalty to the federal flag and the republic of the United States of America.

That's where the "and to the Republic for which it stands" comes into play.

generallyso:Why do we force children to make daily pledges of fealty they don't understand? It's creepy and disturbing like something out of a communist dictatorship except I've never heard of one doing that.

Jarhead_h:They're pissed that their snowflakes can't participate in a National Socialist loyalty oath? Funny, if I had kids I would be pissed if they actually were doing that.

brandent: RedPhoenix122: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Look libtard, if it weren't for patriotic American kids reciting the pledge, we'd all be speaking Cuban right now.

Hah. Funny thing, I was the one of 2 people in my class that were Jehovah's Witnesses, and had to sit the pledge out.

/Oddly enough, I ended up saying it in 2004 to swear into the military.

No such thing exists. You do not pledge allegiance to the flag to join the military. Did you even pay any attention to the words of the oath that you took?

I doubt it. Half the people in my swearing in actually repeated "state your name".

My ignorant brother in law tried to call me out on the stupid flag thing and used the "yeah but you made an oath what's the difference" argument. I pointed out that my officer's oath has no such oath of any kind resembling anything related to obeying orders, the president, the congress, or even an oath to the country. He thought I had gone completely bonkers and so I recited it to him. He was speechless. I will point it out below.

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God (optional).

They think I'm loony but it was pointed out repeatedly and with emphasis in m officer training that this was very specific (not accidental as some claim) wording designed specifically and explicitly to point out several items.

1. No requirement to follow orders if we felt they were unlawful. And in fact a duty to disobey them.2. No oath to the President, Congress, or any other governing body.3. No oath even to the United States as a government entity or physical land mass.4. They meant both foreign and domestic and specifically require you to disobey directives in conflict with the constitution (did I just repeat myself)?5. Certainly no flag oath. The pledge of allegiance was openly mocked and discouraged. Never once in the first 15 years I was in was it ever even suggested we recite the pledge. By mid 2000s the stupidity had crept in though through the Army.6. The only oath in this oath is to the Constitution. This does not imply any of the government.7. In the same conversation was the explicit pointing out that the President had no obligation to and in fact it was not customary for him to return a salute and that Reagan was the one that popularized that. He is an elected official and by custom does not salute and nearly every president (including Eisenhower) had stuck to not saluting.

Exactly. Using the government shutdown (if a portion of 17% is a shutdown) as the excuse just shows how ignorant and most likely incompetent the teacher is. Teachers are not supposed to use lies to educate with. He may as well said that they were not going to be saying the pledge because the line down at the DMV currently has more than 5 people standing in it. It is just as relevant.

grumpfuff:Ricardo Klement: generallyso: Why do we force children to make daily pledges of fealty they don't understand? It's creepy and disturbing like something out of a communist dictatorship except I've never heard of one doing that.

Loyalty oaths were usually requested whenever you did something of even minor importance in communist dictatorships.

I like how you take a question about America, take it and run with it, and end up with an attack on communism, which no one was really talking about.

Soo..does that mean McCarthy was a communist? He wanted loyalty pledges.