Originally posted by solarstorm
Stop printing money the economy is fuked.

Keep printing money the economy will eventually get fuked.

Mr. Bernanke how the fuk do u sleep at night?

Probably on one of these:

The Vividus—made by Hastens—is the most expensive bed in the world. Its name is Latin for “Full of Life.” Sleeping on the Swedish designed
Vividus bed has been described as “sleeping on a cloud.” All that sounds pretty appealing until you see the price tag of $59,750. That’s a far
cry from your average $700 queen-sized mattress.

Well America was going to collapse in the great depression, WW2, the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, and now the 2010s. No doubt people will be making
that claim in 2020s and beyond. Maybe someday they will be right but, that time is not now nor is it soon.

Economically things are very precarious right now in the world, the two economic superpowers the EU and the USA are interdependent, the EU accounts
for something like 75% of all investment going into America to the value of 1.4 Trillion Dollars. If the EU was to fail then that investment would
stop having a devastating effect on the American economy, likewise if America was to fail then the EU would also fail as the relationship is
interdependent.

As a true market state American cannot afford to fail, if the EU fails then America will fail this in turn could cause a collapse of the Chinese
economy as America would be unable to pay back its debts, which in turn will lead to an effect on the India and Russian economies. In short the entire
system is very close to collapse, something America will not allow.

The solution as to how to keep American and the EU afloat is the big question, currently economic measures have been short-term and their
effectiveness is very much up for debate. Economic austerity measures and Qualitative easing are attempts to secure the economies in the short term
but the problem is that they cause social unrest through economic austerity that can undermine the sovereignty of the market state (such a Greece) and
qualitative easing can destroy an economy (Zimbabwe a prime example). The problem is that these measures and other fiscal measures taken have all had
short-term effects, it seems that every year a new plan is required to save us from falling of the fiscal cliff. Whether it be bailing out Greece, a
bail out for banks or GM Motors, or a trillion dollar economic recovery plan they are all short term. In the long term these plans are not viable
there must come a point where a financial bailout is not possible or cannot be agreed upon and when that happens that is when the system is going to
collapse.

To prevent this governments need to agree on long term alternatives not these 5 year austerity plans to reduce deficits, they’re pointless. They
need to go to their people with huge 30 year recovery plans composing of massive cuts and drastic changes to social welfare and taxation. In the UK
for example the government talks about plans that will save a couple of billion, which is not enough. America and the EU is the exact same there is no
point in Obama saying well look I can save 5 billion here and a couple of million there. How exactly such a long term plan would work, I don’t know
but I really do think that the only alternative could be a war as a means to adjust the global financial markets by force.

Good points all of them O.S., and your star.
I was directed by a geopolitical pundit of some reknown that as history
repeats and the players change, the US is now taking the place of the
City of London during the 30's; and China will be getting the fallout from
us. It seemed a little simplistic; but as things shake out could make
sense, with our supply driven fiascos. "If you build it, make sure they
can afford to come, Milt." Evidently the bastardized quote may be a
cautionary.
I for one have invested in tools of my trade over the last 20 or so years,
in the remote possibility that civilization won't completely melt down--
and survivors look to others who can fix things of wood and metal.
I should say here I'm an accomplished machinist, but have no desire to
haphazardly start carving away at the tube and upper of an AR platform
in order to make the user a human blast wall goin' full auto... once. Yukka.
Let's leave it alone after that for specifics: but for a sideline during the last
G.D. my grandfather the tool maker was also a heck of a shoe maker
and repairman. In fact he confessed to within a few years getting more
work and money at home than when he was sweating at the foundry.
If we do ever get to start again, it will probably be starting small and
individually. Keep your socks dry..

One of the biggest reasons why the US$ has not collapsed so far is China refusing to lose its savings currently denominated in US$ assests all of
which get wiped out should the US$ collapse. They did so by buying up US treasury securities, which compounded their problems.

Contrary to what popular commentators tend to project, it is the US which is pushing for the destruction of the US$. This can only mean one
thing, that those pushing for this expect to be in control of whatever replaces it. That obviously rules out any other national/regional currency.
While the BRIC countries have a collective veto on whatever is going to replace the US$, none of them are in a position to dictate what will
replace it, certainly not in today's world. So they will have a voice, for sure, and will be conceded a measure of influence when creating new supply
of the new monetary unit, but the control will rest firmly with those in control of the West today. The volume of the new currency in circulation will
be dictated by the volume of international commerce and "world policing costs". It is the latter towards which the US and NATO can be
expected to contribute significantly and draw the required share of the global trading currency to run trade deficits.

The US in the aftermath of this change will be akin to Russia during the Yeltsin years, a serious restructing of the economy with reduced but still
significant international influence.

I have a great fix for the economy. Pull ALL troops home, put them to work rebuilding our factories and then put them to work in the factories they
built. If we stop spending on war other Countries will like us better and we will have a boatload of money.

Second fix: Abolish personal income tax and ALL write offs and move to a retail based sales tax. Even drug dealers will be paying taxes on their
purchases. Simple to collect from retailers.

That would not be enough, you are looking at America still as a nation state with nationalistic characteristics rather than a market state that is
reliant on global events and the global markets. You could bring all the troops home and save a few billion that is a great idea but again its short
term. Having them build factories is not feasible that would be very much a socialist move, what would be better is to promote private enterprise to
build more factories and infrastructure, particularly agricultural.

Abolishing income tax against would not work, it would make things worse because although yes America is a market state, it still has a social
obligation to provide some services for the population and without any revenue form income tax the government would have to resort to more borrowing
to fulfil this duty. It is also paradoxical to your suggestion to use troops to build infrastructure.

In any case, this is not about fixing the American economy it is just as important to “fix” the economy of the EU to ensure American economic
viability. If the EU collapses America will follow.

Once you remove all write-off's (even for corps) and move to a sales tax on all purchases (other than food, rent and utilities) it would balance the
books right quick. Although one more huge fix is needed that I forgot to mention. Require all U.S. Companies and Corporations to bank inside the
USA. No more hiding money offshore, no more offshore call center either ( :

We need jobs returned to this Country or we are screwed.

(Yes I know it's much more complicated) Personally I think we are screwed and there are no fixes at all, but I can dream.

That seems to be the only possible game plan, but why and to what advantage is the nagging question ? Do the players the lead figures not understand
that they will get in a world of pain themselves. That the permanency of the puppet masters in power will at least be challenged by a dissolution of
the US a civil war or a the overturning of the state (or a combination of those).

I do not see how anyone could indeed have a guarantee that this strategy would be profitable in anyway, since a collapse of the US would be also
painfuller to others, beginning with those that depend on the US for their security (Japan, South Korea, Israel, Colombia, Ukraine, Kosovo, Iraq,
Egipt, Jordan, Afghanistan, Taiwan), those that will suffer a bit while they contract it to another power but will risk overthrows (Saudi Arabia,
Qatar etc) and instable regions that need continuous care (India vs Pakisan).

Well the only viability on all this mess would be my most esoteric theory, that we have indeed been invaded by an alien power that has been working
towards ab hidden agenda that at least includes preventing us from ever expanding into space.

move to a sales tax on all purchases (other than food, rent and utilities) it would balance the books right quick.

If you do that, abolish income tax and put a tax on purchased good other than rent, food and utilities you would make things worse. To make up for
the reduction in taxation incomes from income tax the government would need to massively increase the value added tax on goods making them more
expensive which would reduce the ability of consumers to pay for these goods even if they are getting more pay through less tax. Also by excluding
food, rents (and I assume mortgages as well) and utilities you are taking out the three biggest means of VAT revenue so your plan would not work.

Require all U.S. Companies and Corporations to bank inside the USA. No more hiding money offshore, no more offshore call center either

Again another reasonable idea but very flawed, this would lead to all businesses eventually moving outside of America which would only be compounded
by your idea of increasing VAT.

We need jobs returned to this Country or we are screwed.

True but in that case why would you suggest having troops build factories.

If the EU was to fail then that investment would stop having a devastating effect on the American economy, likewise if America was to fail then the EU
would also fail as the relationship is interdependent.

The fragility of the EU is a planed thing and one that will again bite the US back if all crumbles down. The EU should already have started building
an European Army and deprecated (in their interests NATO) or at least restructured its relation with NATO (US and UK interests as arms sellers, the
armament firms in the UK have already slipped into US control). As a structure the EU is more reliant than the US as it does not depend on politics
and its economic dependency is not as strong as the US federal government.

Internally a collapse of the EU would affect more the US than a collapse of the US would affect the EU. Externally the inability of the EU to
coordinate actions, a state of affairs that has been promoted by the US and UK woul dmean that it would not be able to help contain the results of the
vacuum created by the implosion of the US.

Originally posted by kdog1982
I saw 7 deer running around just a lot over from my house yesterday.
They have increase ,actually double in the number from last year.
And,I have a gun.
I will have food if and when it all goes downhill.

its a good short term solution but take note after the great depression, after the first 3 months nearly all wildlife was wiped out due to starving
familys and everyone "heading for the hills" to hunt the wildlife.

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