Murray's Ranking

No Elena. My point is that we should be celebrating the fact that Andy ends the year in the top 4 despite missing two chunks of the season because of injury rather than wringing our hands over the fact he could have been in top 3 had he done slightly better (or played tournaments when he was injured). Indeed the very point you then make. And rob - words fail me that you still don't seem to be willing to concede that Andy's back was a contributory factor in those early exits.

I don't think the back was at all what made Andy lose early, at least not all the time. I think, particularly in Monte Carlo, he was just outplayed by Stan.

And rob - words fail me that you still don't seem to be willing to concede that Andy's back was a contributory factor in those early exits.

How do you know? The problem is when Andy loses a match its because of his back. But he won Wimbledon. And Miami. Don't insult people's intelligence by trying to claim Andy lost early in some tournaments because of his back. If it was a problem he would not have played these tournaments. There's an unwritten rule in tennis. If you walk out onto the court you are fit. That's it, bottom line. To claim otherwise is disrespectful to your opponent.

You sound as though you would have liked him to crawl on his knees to go out and play a tennis match. I am afraid I find that is unworthy of you. Would you play on if you were in pain ? I don't think so. Andy has been in pain for a while now and instead of making such a statement you should realize how difficult it has been to play at all. Would you play if you had to have a lot of injections to be even able to go on court. He has tried to keep his commitments I think you should be pleased that he did so.

@BigNoseAndy pulled out of RG and thus had had a "rest" b4 Queens and Wimbledon. Without doubt that would've helped his back.However, I remember him saying that after Wimbledon he was in such pain that he wanted the op. then, but, because of his success, his team talked him out of it.As a consequence we all know he performed badly this Summer. I really don't know why some people on here are failing to acknowledge the role that pain must've played in his losses. Good grief Andy himself has said back problems have prevented him moving as freely as he used to, or hitting some shots as hard as he used to, or hitting some shots even....

@BigNoseAndy pulled out of RG and thus had had a "rest" b4 Queens and Wimbledon. Without doubt that would've helped his back.However, I remember him saying that after Wimbledon he was in such pain that he wanted the op. then, but, because of his success, his team talked him out of it.As a consequence we all know he performed badly this Summer. I really don't know why some people on here are failing to acknowledge the role that pain must've played in his losses. Good grief Andy himself has said back problems have prevented him moving as freely as he used to, or hitting some shots as hard as he used to, or hitting some shots even....

You sound as though you would have liked him to crawl on his knees to go out and play a tennis match. I am afraid I find that is unworthy of you. Would you play on if you were in pain ? I don't think so. Andy has been in pain for a while now and instead of making such a statement you should realize how difficult it has been to play at all. Would you play if you had to have a lot of injections to be even able to go on court. He has tried to keep his commitments I think you should be pleased that he did so.

@BigNoseAndy pulled out of RG and thus had had a "rest" b4 Queens and Wimbledon. Without doubt that would've helped his back.However, I remember him saying that after Wimbledon he was in such pain that he wanted the op. then, but, because of his success, his team talked him out of it.As a consequence we all know he performed badly this Summer. I really don't know why some people on here are failing to acknowledge the role that pain must've played in his losses. Good grief Andy himself has said back problems have prevented him moving as freely as he used to, or hitting some shots as hard as he used to, or hitting some shots even....

And incidentally I can never quite forgive his team for talking him out of the op, although I can see where they were coming from, because (a) it wasn't them who were in such pain and (b) it was almost inevitable that he would turn in below par performances in the US because of it, something which wouldn't do his confidence much good. No wonder he said that he lacked motivation after winning Wimbledon! Yes there may well have been the initial natural feelings of a come-down after such a high, but had Andy been fully fit I'm sure he would have got over it quickly and perhaps even succeeded in defending his USO title.

No Elena. My point is that we should be celebrating the fact that Andy ends the year in the top 4 despite missing two chunks of the season because of injury rather than wringing our hands over the fact he could have been in top 3 had he done slightly better (or played tournaments when he was injured). Indeed the very point you then make. And rob - words fail me that you still don't seem to be willing to concede that Andy's back was a contributory factor in those early exits.

You say 'no' - but it feels like being told off when people come on this thread and say we should "stop stressing about the rankings" or we shouldn't "get fixated on the minutiae of rankings" and others come along and say "well said".

Looking at the posts before yours #7007, I personally don't see any hand - wringing. I don't take Nigel's suggestion he should play a challenger match seriously, or Sparkle's comment about Shanghai and Paris. My comment was a just statement of fact - and I find it quite funny that 15 measly DC points would make the difference between 3rd and 4th place if they could be counted, but the rules are that they can't. I didn't think laundry or rob's comments were serious either - assumed they were sarcastic, and was fine with them. Maybe I'm wrong.

Just for the record, I am never critical of Andy - if it appears that I am, it is not intended.

as we are both agreed that it's great that Andy has finished in the top 4 despite the injury problems and the time out after the op, why don't we leave it at that Elena. I'm not looking to 'tell you off'. Indeed I have worried about the rankings myself not that long ago. But now Andy has finished in the top 4, I'm happy with that and I was simply suggesting that perhaps others might be too - and indeed many are. Instead it just seems that some people always prefer to accentuate the negative. As for bignose, again where to begin? The idea that a tennis player never steps out on court with an injury that might impede their game is simply laughable. Yes it's pretty amazing what Andy has achieved despite being in pain for 18 months or so to a greater or lesser extent it now turns out. It's hardly insulting to him to suggest that sometimes that pain might have been a factor in a below par performance. I simply can't understand why some people refuse to accept that. Re the bold words in bbh's post gangsta: why erratic? They are emphasising what she wants to emphasise, as the use of bold or italics normally does.

I wasnt actually talking about you Elena when i posted " well said" I was referring to rob 92 comments about andys back.

Ok, thanks Angie, although I'm now actually quite confused as to whether rob is a goodie or a baddie! Ruthie - yes we could leave it at that - but then you go on to say that some people prefer to accentuate the negative. I'm not sure who you mean - I think some of the negativity is in the interpretation rather than the posting.

Rob says: Well hopefully next year he will have better results. No bombing out early in masters. Ruthie says: And rob - words fail me that you still don't seem to be willing to concede that Andy's back was a contributory factor in those early exits.

What is wrong with what rob said? Andy went out well before his seeding in several Masters this year, and let's hope he does better next year - which (I assume rob means) given the back treatment - is very possible. I'm sure I've seen posts where he says something similar. Rob may correct me!

Anyway, people can post what they want, but as someone who enjoys working out and discussing the details of the ranking system, and how it affects Andy, I'd just be grateful if people didn't say we shouldn't discuss the rankings - on this thread.