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What I haven't seen from you guys so far is the fact that every breed we have today is a result of a cross-breed. I personally have no issue with a cross-breeding for a reason. If you have two good herding dogs of different breeds why not breed them together to get some good pups? At the end of the day if there is a valid PURPOSE behind the cross-breed then it is fine in my book. The issue is these designer dogs may have a niche to fill even if it is a different type of lap dog, which is perfectly fine, BUT these people aren't looking at making a new breed, they just cross two purebred dogs together and come up with a cute name. I don't think it would be as much of a problem if they were using the best pups from the litter to help create a breed

"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland

1. a healthy dog - ie not one with trouble breathing or keeping cool or major joint problems or prone to dying young of some horrible brain problem.

And they perceive the designer dogs to be "healthier" because they've been conned by stories of "hybrid vigor". Puppy farmers select for cute puppies not healthy adults.

The BBC program about pedigree dogs and some of the current breed standards and stubborness of particular breed stewards contributes to this.

2. A lot of people want a dog that won't make a mess of their house or make them sneeze. So they think they will get this with the poodle crosses.

But they'd be wrong. Again, excellent marketing by the likes of Don Burke.

It is possible that one day we will have a non-shedding healthy labrador - but so far - we don't.

3. People want cute puppies and easy going adult dogs. Unfortunately - picking a cute puppy does not get you the easy going adult dog.

4. People want instant guide dogs or instantly no effort on their part - well behaved dogs. And those that are prepared to put the effort in - have no idea how to achieve what they want. Cesar Milan and old school yank and crank dog obedience clubs like mine - are not helping here. Neither are "Bark busters" who take money and fail to provide the expected result and blame the owner.

The people on here don't read the stickies about puppy mills or links about responsible dog breeders, they want their puppy now.

I think Hyacinth hit the nail on the head. Everyone wants a healthy dog. Most new dog owners don't know much about health problems certain breeds have or don't have and how to avoid those. There is a lot of confusing and conflicting information out there. To a person who doesn't know much about dogs and breeds these things can appear quite overwhelming. Arrogant and/or unhelpful breeders don't help either and neither do snappy posts on forums. I suppose many people in this situation (like myself) start to think getting a pure breed is a minefield and best avoided. People just hear crook hips and deformed noses and turn away. They genuinely believe that they have a better chance to get a healthy dog if they have a cross breed.

I also think it's an image thing. Why are you attracted to a certain breed? You're either attracted to the look, or you like a particular trait. You may like the smartness, the loyality or the agility. Perhaps you like that they're ugly (not naming a breed here ). Mutts fulfill the same purpose. They're the individualists. A lot of people are quite proud to own a mutt and the fact that every oodle is slightly different and you don't know what kind of dog you'll end up with is not necessarily a put off. It's a statement just like owning a staffy or a GSD or a dobe is a statement. They are the 'I-give-the-breed-snobs-the-finger' dog Good Marketing did the rest...

I think we can all agree on the fact that the method of breeding these dogs can't possibly result in real predictability of characteristics. Some predictability could only be achieved if they start breeding from the crossbreds themselves, which as far as I know isn't currently happening. But I think most people wanting a dog like that may just not have a great need for predictability? They like both breeds, they like the look of the crosses that they have seen, don't mind if their pup ends up looking quite different and they may not think or care that much about temperament. Maybe in a similar way that I quite enjoy the unpredictability of my rescue dogs? I had no idea how big she would grow and little idea about her needs or temperament, but I like the mystery and element of surprise. Just to say, not everyone thinks predictability is a must or even a positive necessarily.

And you could argue that even if you do not know what characteristics the pups will inherit from which parent, you can fairly safely predict that a pug crossed with a cavalier is not going to behave like a GSD, that their size will be pretty similar to one of the breeds and they're not going to have a golden retriever coat. I know it's not much to go on, but I think for some people it's enough.

Excellent post

I thnk I said in the other thread, why do people have to be looking for certain characteristics?

Like Beloz says, they might have seen those crosses and not mind how the pup turns out because they still know how the pup wont turn out.

Sometimes it is nice to receve a surpise in how the pup looks when it is older, yet you know it is within certain boundaries

And like beloz said, temperament probably doesnt play a major part. At the end of the day, all my dogs have been chosen based on how they looked as babies. By the time their temperament is known, they are already loved and accepte dinto the family....Clearly this is within reason, and temp does come into it, but usually after I like the look of a dog i.e. Pippi and her sister were very different. Pippi was quite forward and a little bit bolshy where as her sister was not that interested in meeting us at all. So we got Pippi.

Let's be honest, most of those small x breeds are just adorable...even into adulthood. Maybe people want a dog that is still going to be cute and yummy when it is an adult and still retains some puppyish looks (we got that with Pippi...2 and a half and still as cute as she was at 3 months).

Obviously Barney is cute too LOL (hes watching me). Most dogs generally lose that puppyness as they get older (obviously) so maybe thats what they like.

I know quite a few people who have got their poodle x and found the dog turns out to be much bigger or smaller than they expected for some reason.

I swear one GR x Poodle I met was more likely poodle x great dane.

And i've seen a few lab x poodles that look like sandy coated lakeland terriers, ie long legged long haired jack russel or cairn terrier look. I'd never seen the wire coat out of a poodle - but there's quite a few of them around now.

I know someone who got a 'groodle' because she really wanted a poodle, but her teenage son said he wouldn't want to be seen with it. So the cross was a compromise to keep them both happy. Now everyone just calls the dog "the dumb blonde".

I know that several Search and Rescue groups are breeding my cross breed (Golden Retriever x Border Collie) and using them for Search and Rescue. It has been a very successful cross breed and is done buy them purely for a purpose.

Having trained Tessa and worked with some others too, I can full understand why they would cross these two. I have also seen that they are a very definite "looking" dog. most look like an almost flatcoated retriever. And if you look into their history you can see why.

I have "spoken" with some Search and Rescue people on Forums and they tell me they like the cross better compared to either pure breed. The BC, gives the GR the stamina it requires.

I quite agree with cross breeding for a purpose (working), that is how all pure breeds started

I know that when we cross breed cattle, we do it for the purpose of cross-breed vigour and we expect the calfs to grow bigger. We only ever use our Hereford bull over the Angus cows (first cross). And never do a second cross of Hereford bull to Angus/hereford cows. Because the outcome are often smaller. We call this hybrid vigour in the cattle world...Not sure if that is the reason why some poodle crosses are so large.