George & Rittle: Encylopaedia of taxidermy

Hi seniors,First of all let me tell u something about myself. Taxidermy has been my hobby since I was 18 (now I am 32). I am living in a part of world where people do not know what is Lutan-F. So I was using old and obsolete techniques. As soon as I came to know that formaldehyde is carcinogenic I tried to change preservatives. My problems started from this point.Some people told me that I am the best bird taxidermist in the town and I believe they are right.I have been searching the archieves for the last few months and all that I could conclude is as follows:

1. Mr. George and Mr. Rittle have sheer knowledge about taxidermy and tanning.2. You all guys in this forum like to help others taxidermists who are living in USA.3. Mr. Rittle always gives answers to the question in detail and with scientific logic. But he always tries to promote his business and try to sell his branded items.4. Mr. Geoarge seems to be an old man (I do not know what his age is) He also has good knowledge but when some beginner asks some stupid question, he starts looking angry and sometime a little arrogant (well u should expect stupid question from beginners).5. Last but most important of my feeling, you guys feel that the world ends outside America. No hints or tips for outsider, no guidelines no formulas, no help. You people are trying to keep this art confined. I am sure u will never succeed if you are thinking so.

I also apologize for my words but let me tell u I am just trying to express my feeling. I could find nothing from this forum but Epo-Grip, Lutan-F, Krowtan-100, Ezi-tan, this oil and that oil. Absolutely useless to know these names if these products are not available in my country.

Dear Mr. Haider

This response submitted by George on 06/01/2004 at 08:53. ( georoof@aol.com ) 149.174.164.23

I'm sorry that many of the products we talk about are not available to you. HOWEVER, MOST OF US here ARE from America. The site is funded and sponsored by WASCO, and AMERICAN company that sells most of those products you listed or certainly reasonable facsimiles. AMERICA seems to be the last bastion of the outdoorsman and gun ownership (if we can keep the stupid Democrats from brainwashing others like Cecil and Kelly and Tony, and Steve, etc.)so in effect, TAXIDERMY is being championed on this continent and in this country. I understand quite well (better than most I feel) that there IS life outside of America, but I don't intend to give up any of my freedoms because of that.

I AM old by some standards but 58 is a helluva long way from dead I'd hope. Beginners are expected to ask UNINFORMED questions. Stupid questions come from stupid people and I've learned from those years that STUPID people can get themselves and others killed. IF I see a beginner's question IN the beginner's category, I try to go out of my way to help even the stupid ones. Otherwise, my replies tend to be very pointed.

Now I'm sorry you feel as if we don't help "outsiders", but you're wrong. Last week we helped a girl in Britain who couldn't find those great products we use today. Sadly, however, most of the substitutes that us OLD PEOPLE used aren't known by the younger generation. I never like tanning with sulfuric acid and thankfully I don't have to any more. If that's all YOU can get, however, you're going to have to ask us OLD people how it was done. Kiwi in New Zealand along with Samantha and Greg Pegg in Australia seem to do quite well without all this fancy American technology, but I don't see them ever on here bemoaning they aren't Americans.

Where Are You?

This response submitted by Old Fart on 06/01/2004 at 09:58. ( ) 64.122.57.23

We can mail just about anything to anywhere. Yes, the shipping cost can be a factor for large or heavy things. I have set a lot of things overseas to taxidermists because they couldn't get them where they are. All I ask is;

#1 Always make it clear WHERE you are. Believe it or not, there are people in this country still using obsolete information. They are usually trying to save money rather than do the project right. There is no excuse for that in THIS country, the right products are always available here.

#2 Always tell us WHAT you are trying to do. Just asking for a particular chemical, without knowing what it is for, makes it hard to give alternative possibilities. There are almost always alternatives to everything, IF we know what you are doing.

#3 Always remember...There ARE stupid people...They are dangerous, and even worse they screw up other peoples' trophies. I don't like being asked to "fix" these things. If you are not willing to do things the right way, don't expect me to help you. We will always try to help you do things the "right" way, even taking into account your situation.

MrHaider

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 06/01/2004 at 16:51. ( ) 209.130.132.138

Bruce Rittel sells tanning supplies. Hes very knowledgeable, but yes, he sells his products as well. Here we call this normal.

I sure dont think we should blame George and Bruce for the difficulty in getting some of the popular brand names to your country.

Rather than post an insulting message towards these two great guys, try this. Tell us where you are and what products ARE available to you, and we all would be happy to explain them to you as best as we know how.

Again, perhaps this wasnt accurate due to problems with translation...

Hasnain

This response submitted by Logan on 06/01/2004 at 19:09. ( ) 67.168.67.55

Your observations are very apropos. Americans do tend to be very idiosyncratic, compared to the rest of the world. There are several people who are very knowledgable and try to promote thier business through this public forum-it's not a crime, but if you are half-way intelligent (which I'm sure your are), you will just have to weigh their responses accordingly ---A fair trade by the way in exchange for their expertise.As far as some of the rudness and impatience displayed on this forum, I think it's due to a combination of factors...........................probably about 1/3 ego, 1/3 ignorance, and yes, 1/3 old age. LOL!

Logan

Mr. Bill & Logan

Dear firends,I once again apologise for my insulting word. I am also tankful to Mr. George who replied my post with a great deal of patience. I am sorry to say that yesterday I was confused more than a little. In fact I have been searching the market for the last few weeks for lutan -f but could not find it. I in fact want to tan my birds deer hides. I want to get rid of formaldehyde. To be very honest, I have seen death of a master taxidermist with cancer and this scares me a little. I am using now gluatraldehyde. I hope this is not as bad as formaldehyde. As per Merck index gluatraldehyde is not carcinegenic.

I am living in PAKISATN. I have seen so many people tanning deer hides with aluminium sulphate but the tanned skins are not soft. Thses people usually use olive oil. Tanning oils are available in Pakistan but only in bulk quantities for tanneries. How can I can purchase a drum of tanning oil and where will I use it. Different tanning solution require different kind of tanning oil. I started searching the archieves to sort out these things. One again sorry for my attitude.Thanks.

what a croc of crape

This response submitted by samantha on 06/02/2004 at 05:18. ( ) 210.50.189.217

Good heavens - i thought australia was the worst place to be a taxidermist - i feel better now :-)

Ok - you live in a far off place - so do i - but that hasnt stopped me from doing taxidermy. I also learnt using archaic materials, skulls and wood for forms and backward methods.I can only find 1 or 2 taxos in this country who will part with mere slivers of infomation.

This IS an American site, remember, so of course it takes a while to get to know what people are on about. Took me a year to realise denatured alcohol was just metho thats used for household cleaning here.Not everything talked about on here is available to me either - you just have to import it and sure it costs an arm and a leg but.....I even spoil myself with a magazine subscription for xmas if im lucky.

I have to say that if i hadnt stumbled across this site a few yrs back i would have either given up completely or be still using old and dangerous methods.George and others no doubt get sick of answering the same questions over and over. Surely you cant have read all the arch's? Im still going at it.And just ignore the political BS. ;-)

just read..

This response submitted by samantha on 06/02/2004 at 05:25. ( ) 210.50.189.217

Your post george - lol.

No i just turn green with envy and wish every day i was born over there. lol ;-)

Spoiled

This response submitted by Jack F on 06/02/2004 at 05:58. ( ) 12.152.155.178

I think we sound a little spoiled to most who don't have it so well. We can all learn something from a post like this one. Some people on here should read, read and re-read this post untill they figure out how good we have it here in the good old USA. Jack F

Dear Jack

This response submitted by wilson on 06/02/2004 at 09:05. ( ) 198.81.26.45

WE here in THE GOOD OLD USA are not spoiled;WE all fight tooth and nail for what we have.WE as a country have not been given a darn thing.

Samantha I

Hi SamanthaI am not a kind of person who gives up. I shall carry on my search for improved chemicals. I am not asking these people to tell me the recipe of Lutan-F. I just want the older guys to tell me some alternate. But these guys are asking me to import their branded chemicals. They do not know the difficulties that I shall have to face in order to import these thing. Most of all no body would be ready to give me work because of the cost factor. Import of chemicals will really raise cost. If U want to know some special and really cheap recipe, please do not hesitate to contact me on my e-mail (I believe I do have something).I have not heard even a word from Mr. Rittle. Please come and join the discussion.

hasnain

This response submitted by samantha on 06/03/2004 at 04:55. ( ) 210.50.189.115

I am very happy with what i "import" now, thanks.

You should give the ez tan a go its really nice.Surely the only extra cost to you is postage and the dollar difference as it is here.I only have to pay our government an import tax fee if i go over the $$$ limit - which actually isnt to hard as its in aussie dollars.

Cant you get hold of a breakthru mag or have a look at the suppliers web sites and see the vast range of products available to you?

Unfortunately taxidermy isnt cheap for us and i know my clients can be very tight ,making it hard to pass on the costs, but if we want to persue this art we have to do it using the best products we can get.