b2297894 wrote:It is time we started holding our elected officials accountable. During Mr. Udall's tenure we have seen 1000 Colorado homes burn due to ineffective forest fire management, lost all of our personal privacy, have added $9 trillion dollars to the Federal deficit, and now have a healthcare law that he fully supported that will bankrupt you if you happen to get seriously ill.

That should make an effective campaign ad.

Did he support the NDAA? Well yes he did and then began to criticize it. Idea for Udall.... learn to read what you are voting for before you vote.

Last edited by swatson839 on March 18th, 2014, 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Linda m wrote:You know who will be hurt if they take away the Affordable Care Act? Middle class families that have been frugal, working every day, saving their pennies, not taking family vacations so they can pay for college for their kids. They appreciate keeping their kids on their policies after they graduate from college and can find a decent job with healthcare benefits. I know that there are more than a few of us with pre-existing health issues that would pull our own plugs if we couldn't get insurance and it would take our family's life savings to get us care. So who really are the death panels here? The Affordable Care Act is working and I hate that the Republicans have voted 50 times to repeal it instead of working on other bills that would move our country forward.

But won't they be able to take those family vacations with the $2,500 they'll save over their current premiums as promised by PharObama?

Thumbs down don't change reality.

Check these out:www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.phpwww.opensecrets.org/overview/topindivs_overall.phpwww.opensecrets.org/overview/topcontribs.php

Let's see. Gardner is a puppet of the evil Koch brothers, according to Udall. And Udall is a puppet of the disastrous socialists Reid and Obama, according to Gardner. Obamacare is a great success, according to the Dems. Obamacare is a huge catastrophe, according to the GOP. I know which side of these two arguments The Post is on; I know which side I'm on (hint, not The Post's). Where do you stand?

ricky389 wrote:Of the 100 members of the US Senate, Mark Udall is near the top!! Now we will get a neo-fascist attack on him by the Koch Bros. that is totally amiss! Coloradans better see what the grab is!! We don't need Billionaires telling us what to think or do!! Udall has the good sense to get us through the mess we are in and the very deep mess we are headed for!! If my Conservative Clowns have a beef on the affordable care act as I do: what is their REMEDY!!

But it's just fine for Bloomberg and Soros to poor millions into attack adds of conservatives? Remedy's proposed by conservatives are not considered by the liberals. As in the 51 bills attempting to tweak Obama-care sent by the house to the senate that have never been put on the floor for a vote.

dough wrote:Well , the funny thing is that these ads created by the Koch Brothers to trash Obamacare have proven to be false. and misleading. (http://www.factcheck.org/tag/americans-for-prosperity/)The Billionaire Koch Brothers founded Americans for Prosperity as well as supporting the Tea Party Patriots. They are a well known Conservative hit group that has no interest in the truth.

Linda m wrote:Colorado Democrats need to step up their game and do the outreach that they are good at. If they are complacent they will lose this seat. The Senator needs to stress that the Affordable Care Act is working for a lot of people and millions who didn't have health insurance now have it. Insurance companies still decide what kind of policies they will offer and I bet a lot of those policies that were cancelled were substandard and took advantage of the people who were enrolled. In our city of over 50,000, only 50 Democrats showed up for the caucus. That was a lost opportunity to build a base of people willing to knock on doors. The message is clear, the Republicans have a very, very small tent and leave a lot of us out. They will strangle Medicare and Social Security benefits. They aren't interested in protecting a woman's right to plan her family and make her own healthcare decisions. They have done next to nothing to raise the minimum wage or make affordable early childhood education available. They will cut safety nets further and further and gut the Environmental Protection Agency which protects our water, air and other natural resources that we need for our children and a healthy economy. It's not complicated, stop playing defense.

ricky389 wrote:Of the 100 members of the US Senate, Mark Udall is near the top!! Now we will get a neo-fascist attack on him by the Koch Bros. that is totally amiss! Coloradans better see what the grab is!! We don't need Billionaires telling us what to think or do!! Udall has the good sense to get us through the mess we are in and the very deep mess we are headed for!! If my Conservative Clowns have a beef on the affordable care act as I do: what is their REMEDY!!

We don't need Billionaires telling us what to think or do!!

So your problem is with who sponsors the ad.. I see. Can you say Bloomberg.....

We match our Koch Brothers ads against your Bloomberg ones OK. Bloomberg's lost on the recalls and the education TAX. So it's 0-2 with Koch coming to bat.

Let the GAMES begin....

Last edited by Viking Speaks on March 18th, 2014, 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Linda m wrote:You know who will be hurt if they take away the Affordable Care Act? Middle class families that have been frugal, working every day, saving their pennies, not taking family vacations so they can pay for college for their kids. They appreciate keeping their kids on their policies after they graduate from college and can find a decent job with healthcare benefits. I know that there are more than a few of us with pre-existing health issues that would pull our own plugs if we couldn't get insurance and it would take our family's life savings to get us care. So who really are the death panels here? The Affordable Care Act is working and I hate that the Republicans have voted 50 times to repeal it instead of working on other bills that would move our country forward.

That doesn't matter to the old men who make up the Republican party. As long as they keep getting their S.S. checks and get their government run health care--Medicare--they don't care about anyone else.

Ahh..point of order. Most people under this flim flam medical plan are signing up for MEDICARE... So whose doing what to who again...

Last edited by Viking Speaks on March 18th, 2014, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dough wrote:Well , the funny thing is that these ads created by the Koch Brothers to trash Obamacare have proven to be false. and misleading. (http://www.factcheck.org/tag/americans-for-prosperity/)The Billionaire Koch Brothers founded Americans for Prosperity as well as supporting the Tea Party Patriots. They are a well known Conservative hit group that has no interest in the truth.

I'm not finding what you are talking about at that link.

Which article are you referring to?

The links the op wanted to refer to are buried on that page, but include:

Well, since the article opens with "The first attack ad against U.S. Sen. Mark Udall since his re-election bid hit the national radar went up on the air Monday." I'd say articles posted in Januaryu and February aren't really addressing ads that were first run on March 17. It's a bit hard to prove an ad wrong that didn't exist at the time the "proof" was offered. (the OP did state "these ads ........ have proven to be false" referring to the ads mentioned in the article)

While I'm not the op, technically, you're correct

However, the evidence is there to show that this group presents a series of ads with mistruth as fact in numerous political districts.

dritner wrote:Koch Bros - lolThey where like #26 in top donors list to political parties. The top 14 where all Unions to the Democrats. oooohhhhhh The Koch bros are Wealthy Republicans who believe in donating to the Republicans. How evil they must be to donate to the Republicans- lol

Actually there are 58 people and organizations that donate greater amounts to politics than do the Kochs and 18 of them are unions:

Well, since the article opens with "The first attack ad against U.S. Sen. Mark Udall since his re-election bid hit the national radar went up on the air Monday." I'd say articles posted in Januaryu and February aren't really addressing ads that were first run on March 17. It's a bit hard to prove an ad wrong that didn't exist at the time the "proof" was offered. (the OP did state "these ads ........ have proven to be false" referring to the ads mentioned in the article)

While I'm not the op, technically, you're correct

However, the evidence is there to show that this group presents a series of ads with mistruth as fact in numerous political districts.

That's not license to purposely misstate facts to dupe a public so unwilling to do their own research, is it?[/quote]

What do you think the administration putting out that 5 million numbers is? Talk about duping the public. Let's stop -footing around and break down that number. How many in this number had insurance before Obamacare caused their policies to be cancelled? How many have just ENROLLED but haven't pay any premiums? How many of the millenniums signed up and are now paying three times more than they should in order to finance this disaster? Are their any Medicaid enrollees included in this number? Break it down or quit posting that 5 million number

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Oct 11 1798John Adams (Nation's 2nd President)

thats funny, the Democrats didn't seem to have any problems with all the outside money they used in the last election. And it was quite significant from the school bill to attacks on the Colorado local politicians. The fact of the matter is for Obamacare to go forward, most people with indiv. healthcare plans had to redo their plan, most paying more and getting coverage for things they dont need in order to pay for others. The Supreme court did have it right though, it is a big tax on the middle class!

Dakar wrote:thats funny, the Democrats didn't seem to have any problems with all the outside money they used in the last election. And it was quite significant from the school bill to attacks on the Colorado local politicians. The fact of the matter is for Obamacare to go forward, most people with indiv. healthcare plans had to redo their plan, most paying more and getting coverage for things they dont need in order to pay for others. The Supreme court did have it right though, it is a big tax on the middle class!

I have problems with ALL outside money in politics. Do you know how many better uses there are for that money? I recommend a 3 month primary cycle, 3 month general election cycle. No political commercials in MARCH for an election in NOVEMBER.

Fred Basset is a waste of ink and should be replaced in the comics section.

Well, since the article opens with "The first attack ad against U.S. Sen. Mark Udall since his re-election bid hit the national radar went up on the air Monday." I'd say articles posted in Januaryu and February aren't really addressing ads that were first run on March 17. It's a bit hard to prove an ad wrong that didn't exist at the time the "proof" was offered. (the OP did state "these ads ........ have proven to be false" referring to the ads mentioned in the article)

While I'm not the op, technically, you're correct

However, the evidence is there to show that this group presents a series of ads with mistruth as fact in numerous political districts.

That's not license to purposely misstate facts to dupe a public so unwilling to do their own research, is it?

What do you think the administration putting out that 5 million numbers is? Talk about duping the public. Let's stop -footing around and break down that number. How many in this number had insurance before Obamacare caused their policies to be cancelled? How many have just ENROLLED but haven't pay any premiums? How many of the millenniums signed up and are now paying three times more than they should in order to finance this disaster? Are their any Medicaid enrollees included in this number? Break it down or quit posting that 5 million number[/quote]

So, wait. You accept verified mistruths without issue, but have a problem with a verified figure? Frankly, I don't care how many new enrollees are on Medicare/ Medicaid. Anyone who HAS new coverage reduces the chance I have to pick up the costs for someone who used to use the emergency room as their primary health care source.

But, that's how I think of it... more people covered = less people I have to pay for out of my own pocket.

Fred Basset is a waste of ink and should be replaced in the comics section.

Well, since the article opens with "The first attack ad against U.S. Sen. Mark Udall since his re-election bid hit the national radar went up on the air Monday." I'd say articles posted in Januaryu and February aren't really addressing ads that were first run on March 17. It's a bit hard to prove an ad wrong that didn't exist at the time the "proof" was offered. (the OP did state "these ads ........ have proven to be false" referring to the ads mentioned in the article)

While I'm not the op, technically, you're correct

However, the evidence is there to show that this group presents a series of ads with mistruth as fact in numerous political districts.

That's not license to purposely misstate facts to dupe a public so unwilling to do their own research, is it?

What do you think the administration putting out that 5 million numbers is? Talk about duping the public. Let's stop -footing around and break down that number. How many in this number had insurance before Obamacare caused their policies to be cancelled? How many have just ENROLLED but haven't pay any premiums? How many of the millenniums signed up and are now paying three times more than they should in order to finance this disaster? Are their any Medicaid enrollees included in this number? Break it down or quit posting that 5 million number

So, wait. You accept verified mistruths without issue, but have a problem with a verified figure? Frankly, I don't care how many new enrollees are on Medicare/ Medicaid. Anyone who HAS new coverage reduces the chance I have to pick up the costs for someone who used to use the emergency room as their primary health care source.

But, that's how I think of it... more people covered = less people I have to pay for out of my own pocket.[/quote]

So how many of the 5 million actually have NEW insurance, that you won't be picking up the tab for. Medicaid, your tax money is picking up that tab. People whose policies were cancelled, you weren't picking up that tab, they already insurance. My point being do you even now how many people are now covered that you might have been picking up the tab for? More to the point how many people have been screwed over because of Obamacare compared to how many have NEW insurance.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Oct 11 1798John Adams (Nation's 2nd President)

lissmth wrote:Udall was proud to have been the deciding vote on Obamacare and rejoiced when the Supreme Court found for the administration. He ought to be hammered. 335,000 in Colorado have lost their insurance. Replacements are seriously more expensive. Many cannot afford those replacements.

I'm asking this in an effort to improve the quality of comments.

Can you produce a source that demonstrates that "Replacements are seriously more expensive". I understand that healthcare is no laughing matter, but this is not a very informative statement. What percentage more is "seriously?"

Thanks.

EDIT: It saddens me that people do not desire facts anymore. If you agreed in honest, open political debate, you would not thumb down this request, but instead, agree that presenting evidence to back up your point is critical to proper analysis of an issue. "Seriously more expensive" is NOT a useful measure to compare costs, sorry.

It's pretty typical on message boards of any kind. Just the other day, on these boards, I asked a poster for citation on a hyperbolic, declarative statement, and--surprise, surprise--never received a reply, even as the poster replied to other posts (I was a little snarky in my request, granted, but not nasty).

Something worth considering: I can only speak for myself, but it's like this... I'm pretty set in my political beliefs, but I try to stay open to new information. So, if I see someone making a declarative political statement and then I ask them to back it up with even the scantest evidence and they don't, I take note of that, and I take note of what the person's political views are.

The ad in question is made of half truths and misstatements that continue the Republican process of disinformation.

That's an incredibly mild and low-key ad, especially considering Mark Udall flat-out lied to all of us about Obamacare. If that's all it takes to send Mark Udall into a name calling, finger pointing freak-out, what is he going to do when he runs out of places to hide and actually has to face up to his constituents who have had their health care plans canceled and premiums radically increased because of his vote?

One thing, albeit seemingly small, that shows Mark Udall's true cowardice, is the fact that he has been deleting scores of comments left by Coloradans on his Facebook. He appears to have nothing but disdain for the pain of voters who have been hurt by Obamacare.

dzerres wrote:I just heard one of the first ads on TV: it's laughable how out of date and wrong it is. Actually insulting. Just yesterday 5,000,000th person just signed up for Obamacare - how awful it is that people have access to affordable healthcare. How Jesus would weep that people might be healed since he was so busy talking about the rights to owning AR-15's. Hey, GOP: we're still waiting for YOUR health care proposal. If its better we'll vote on that. crickets.

Any chance you know how many of those 5 million signed up for Obamacare had their previous plans cancelled because of Obamacare. How about stating the number of individuals who have actually have health insurance because they have paid the first premium on their new Obamacare policies. Unless you can give the people a breakdown on those numbers, than your 5 million number is just a number and meaningless that proves nothing.

desperate aren't you.

Maybe you should refer to "3fs" comment shortly before your post--asking for individuals of a certain (although unnamed) ilk to back up their claims.Of course you won't see a republican solution/recommendation unless you dig--even just a little: http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHe ... 061709.pdfOne major overriding error in the Obamacare plan is it addresses the guarantor of the payments, not the size of the costs. The plan from the right addresses the costs of the care. You don't buy a Lamborghini and expect to pay $25/month in auto insurance, do you?

As for ol' Mark, there was another Mark-ey, who hung her hat on voting for the ACA and saw her political career come to a screetching halt after 2 years.

Ahh, the Thumbs Down, a passive aggressive way to say "I don't like you, but don't have the acumen to explain why."