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Re: Can women be misogynists?

Originally Posted by Henrin

Ayn Rands view of women I don't think its what you think it is. You can look at her books and get that she believes in social equality. You can look at her interview answers and get a feeling she is for equality of women in all walks of life. I think she actually gave off the opposite impression.

Believing in social equality and hating women are not mutually exclusive. Not every misogynist thinks that a woman's place is to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. The way that females were portrayed in Ayn Rand's poorly-written books reveals some serious misogyny. Virtually every female character was either a conniving bitch, or a hero whose reward was to become some man's prize. She had a lot of issues with women. Sex was usually depicted as degrading/humiliating to the woman. I bet she was into lots of kinky bondage ****.

Are you coming to bed?I can't. This is important.What?Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

Re: Can women be misogynists?

They can be the meanist, cold-hearted bitches in the whole universe.

"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
"Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

Re: Can women be misogynists?

Originally Posted by Kandahar

Believing in social equality and hating women are not mutually exclusive. Not every misogynist thinks that a woman's place is to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

Ayn Rand didn't believe this. She said quite clearly in a few interviews that she thought that if a woman wanted to stay at home she should do so for as little time as possible and get back to living her life. She never said it was a bad thing if a woman wanted to do so, but she made it very clear she wasn't a big supporter of the action. You need to look her up more before you speak.

The way that females were portrayed in Ayn Rand's poorly-written books reveals some serious misogyny. Virtually every female character was either a conniving bitch, or a hero whose reward was to become some man's prize. She had a lot of issues with women.

Conniving bithes? Ok? I imagine if its a woman being in charge of business that is what people like you might think. I didn't get that impression.

Sex was usually depicted as degrading/humiliating to the woman. I bet she was into lots of kinky bondage ****.

She was horrible at writing sex scenes. I honestly didn't pay much attention to them. I don't think putting out sex scenes that make sex look degrading or humiliating to women says she is anti-woman. She might just not like sex all that much or maybe that is how she feels about the act.

Re: Can women be misogynists?

Originally Posted by Henrin

Ayn Rand didn't believe this. She said quite clearly in a few interviews that she thought that if a woman wanted to stay at home she should do so for as little time as possible and get back to living her life. She never said it was a bad thing if a woman wanted to do so, but she made it very clear she wasn't a big supporter of the action. You need to look her up more before you speak.

You need to reread what I wrote. I said being a misogynist isn't mutually exclusive with supporting women's rights. Ayn Rand may very well have supported women's rights, but that doesn't make her any less of a misogynist.

Conniving bithes? Ok? I imagine if its a woman being in charge of business that is what people like you might think. I didn't get that impression.

No. The business-owning women were the heroes who were rewarded with becoming some man's trophy wife. The anti-business women were the conniving bitches in her book. Neither depiction paints women in an especially positive light. (And like all her characters, male and female alike, there was no room for any gray area in between a hero and a villain).

Last edited by Kandahar; 06-21-11 at 10:55 PM.

Are you coming to bed?I can't. This is important.What?Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

Re: Can women be misogynists?

Originally Posted by Kandahar

You need to reread what I wrote. I said being a misogynist isn't mutually exclusive with supporting women's rights. Ayn Rand may very well have supported women's rights, but that doesn't make her any less of a misogynist

I don't know if she hated women, I don't care, but framing it like she is anti-womans rights I have a problem with. Still, I think its the reverse again. I remember reading what seemed like an endless stream of hate by other woman directed at her, not endless stream of hate by Ayn directed at them.

No. The business-owning women were the heroes who were rewarded with becoming some man's trophy wife.

They were equals in very sense of the word. If they got married or not isn't material.

The anti-business women were the conniving bitches in her book. Neither depiction paints women in an especially positive light. (And like all her characters, male and female alike, there was no room for any gray area in between a hero and a villain).

Everyone that was anti-business was looked down on in her books. The senators which were men were perhaps the most hated in the entire books and perhaps the most anti-business of all. The woman were just used to ask uniformed questions and be told what is what.

Re: Can women be misogynists?

Originally Posted by Kandahar

You need to reread what I wrote. I said being a misogynist isn't mutually exclusive with supporting women's rights. Ayn Rand may very well have supported women's rights, but that doesn't make her any less of a misogynist.

No. The business-owning women were the heroes who were rewarded with becoming some man's trophy wife.

What are you talking about? Not only did Dagny Taggart not marry any of the THREE heroes she was with, but you should really reread the passages where she spoke about relationships were about mutual selfish benefit. For example, she was no more John Galt's trophy than he was her's.

Originally Posted by Kandahar

The anti-business women were the conniving bitches in her book. Neither depiction paints women in an especially positive light. (And like all her characters, male and female alike, there was no room for any gray area in between a hero and a villain).

Again, your analysis reveals your ignorance of her novels. Ragnar Danneskjöld, one of my favorite of Atlas Shrugged's heroes, was a pirate and a terrorist from a domestic perspective. In fact all of her heroes were flawed, failed, and disagreed with her ideal in some way.

And many of the stories villains were merely tragically misguided, like Dr. Robert Stadler. Very few were pure evil, by Objectivist standards. IMO the only conniving bitch in all her books was Lilian Rearden.

Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 06-21-11 at 11:19 PM.

Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.

Originally Posted by haymarket

no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

Re: Can women be misogynists?

Oh hell yes.

If I had a dollar for every women I've known that didn't get on with other women at all, I'd buy a new set of tires at least.

Men bark and snarl at each other, then go have a beer after work. Women, many women, get their hate on and hold that grudge until it dies of old age... then have it stuffed and mounted on the mantlepiece so they can continue to admire it.

Fiddling While Rome Burns
ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
"I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."