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Religion & Spirituality

Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.c3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length). "When the Christ myth was new Mithras and Mithraism were already ancient. Worshiped for centuries as God's Messenger of Truth, Mithras was long revered by the Persians and the Indians (Zoroastrianism) before his faith found it's way to Rome where His mysteries flourished in the second century AD. Every year in Rome, in the middle of winter, the Son of God was born one more, putting an end to darkness. Every year at first minute of December 25th the temple of Mithras was lit with candles, priests in in white garments celebrated the birth of the Son of God and boys burned incense. Mithras was born in a cave, on December 25th, of a virgin mother. He came from heaven to be born as a man, to redeem men from their sin. He was know as "Savior," "Son of God," "Redeemer," and "Lamb of God." With twelve disciples he traveled far and wide as a teacher and illuminator of men. He was buried in a tomb from which he rose again from the dead -- an event celebrated yearly with much rejoicing. His followers kept the Sabbath holy, holding sacramental feasts in remembrance of Him. The sacred meal of bread and water, or bread and wine, was symbolic of the body and blood of the sacred bull.

Baptism in the blood of the bull (taurobolum) – early Baptism "washed in the blood of the Lamb" – late Baptism by water [recorded by the Christian author Tertullian Mithraic rituals brought about the transformation and Salvation of His adherents --an ascent of the soul of the adherent into the realm of the divine.

Paul was quit aware of all of this and it was that much easier to bring the pagan Gentile people into this new religion called Christianity.

If you want to be taken seriously enough and want this point debated, you can start by removing your flame-attack signature which implies that Greeney is the equivalent of a child molester. That is crossing the line and is a ban-worthy offense.

Meanwhile, the only physical/literary evidence (on the subject of Mithra) for most of the similiarities between Mithraism and Christianity are dated after Jesus walked the Earth. In other words, evidence suggests that it wasn't Christianity that borrowed from Mithraism, but instead it was the Pagan Mithran cult that conformed their own ideas to those of Christianity.

For just one example, the Mithran blood sacrifice of the bull (taurobolium) first occurred in 160 AD.

Furthermore,

The idea of a rebirth through the instrumentality of the taurobolium only emerges in isolated instances towards the end of the fourth century A.D.; it is not originally associated with this blood-bath. Indeed, there is inscriptional evidence from the fourth century A.D. that, far from influencing Christianity, those who used the taurobolium were influenced by Christianity.

If you want to be taken seriously enough and want this point debated, you can start by removing your flame-attack signature which implies that Greeney is the equivalent of a child molester. That is crossing the line and is a ban-worthy offense.

Meanwhile, the only physical/literary evidence (on the subject of Mithra) for most of the similiarities between Mithraism and Christianity are dated after Jesus walked the Earth. In other words, evidence suggests that it wasn't Christianity that borrowed from Mithraism, but instead it was the Pagan Mithran cult that conformed their own ideas to those of Christianity.

For just one example, the Mithran blood sacrifice of the bull (taurobolium) first occurred in 160 AD.

Furthermore,

The idea of a rebirth through the instrumentality of the taurobolium only emerges in isolated instances towards the end of the fourth century A.D.; it is not originally associated with this blood-bath. Indeed, there is inscriptional evidence from the fourth century A.D. that, far from influencing Christianity, those who used the taurobolium were influenced by Christianity.

If you want to be taken seriously enough and want this point debated, you can start by removing your flame-attack signature which implies that Greeney is the equivalent of a child molester. That is crossing the line and is a ban-worthy offense.

Meanwhile, the only physical/literary evidence (on the subject of Mithra) for most of the similiarities between Mithraism and Christianity are dated after Jesus walked the Earth. In other words, evidence suggests that it wasn't Christianity that borrowed from Mithraism, but instead it was the Pagan Mithran cult that conformed their own ideas to those of Christianity.

For just one example, the Mithran blood sacrifice of the bull (taurobolium) first occurred in 160 AD.

Furthermore,

The idea of a rebirth through the instrumentality of the taurobolium only emerges in isolated instances towards the end of the fourth century A.D.; it is not originally associated with this blood-bath. Indeed, there is inscriptional evidence from the fourth century A.D. that, far from influencing Christianity, those who used the taurobolium were influenced by Christianity.

Mitra (Proto-Indo-Iranian, nominative *Mitras) was an important Indo-Iranian divinity. Following the prehistoric cultural split of Indo-Aryan and Iranian cultures, names descended from *mitra were used for the following religious entities:

Mitra (Sanskrit Mitrá-, Mitráḥ), a deity who appears frequently in the ancient Sanskrit text of the Rigveda. Mithra (Avestan Miθra-, Miθrō), a yazata mentioned in the Zoroastrian sacred scripture of the Avesta, whose New Persian equivalent is Mīhr / Mehr (مِهر). Maitreya, a bodhisattva who in the Buddhist tradition is to appear on Earth, achieve complete enlightenment, and teach the pure dharma. Mithras, the principal figure of the Greco-Roman religion of Mithraism.

When the Aryan tribes swept down from the Russian steppes they brought their gods with them too. Some time between 2000 and 1500 B.C.E. these tribes entered India and Iran, bringing with them one particular deity. These people, the Mitanni, gave us the first written reference to the deity Mitra in a treaty between themselves and the Hittites. Signed about 1375 B.C.E.,

Mitra had been worshipped by the Iranians for centuries before.

The same deity In the Roman Empire, was called Mithras, and was the central figure of a mystery religion that for almost five hundred years conflicted with Christianity for dominance.

The first extant record of Indo-Aryan Mitra, in the form mi-it-ra-, is in the inscribed peace treaty of c. 1400 BC between Hittites and the Hurrian kingdom of the Mitanni in the area southeast of Lake Van in Asia Minor. There Mitra appears together with four other Indo-Aryan divinities as witnesses and keepers of the pact.

Iranian Mithra

In Zoroastrianism, Mithra is a member of the trinity of ahuras, protectors of asha/arta, "truth" or "[that which is] right". Mithra's standard appellation is "of wide pastures" suggesting omnipresence. Mithra is "truth-speaking, ... with a thousand ears, ... with ten thousand eyes, high, with full knowledge, strong, sleepless, and ever awake.".As preserver of covenants, Mithra is also protector and keeper of all aspects of interpersonal relationships, such as friendship and love.

Related to his position as protector of truth, Mithra is a judge (ratu), ensuring that individuals who break promises or are not righteous (artavan) are not admitted to paradise. In Indo-Iranian tradition, Mithra is associated with (the divinity of) the sun but originally distinct from it.

Buddhist Maitreya

[color=#BFFF40]Some have speculated that inspiration for Maitreya may have come from the ancient Indo-Iranian deity Mithra. The primary comparison between the two characters appears to be the similarity of their names. According to a book entitled The Religion of the Iranian Peoples, "No one who has studied the Zoroastrian doctrine of the Saoshyants or the coming saviour-prophets can fail to see their resemblance to the future Maitreya.

Graeco-Roman Mithras[/color]

The name Mithra was adopted by the Greeks and Romans as Mithras, chief figure in the mystery religion of Mithraism. At first identified with the Sun-god Helios by the Greeks, the syncretic Mithra-Helios was transformed into the figure Mithras during the 2nd century BC, probably at Pergamon. This new cult was taken to Rome around the 1st century BC and was dispersed throughout the Roman Empire. Popular among the Roman military, Mithraism was spread as far north as Hadrian's Wall and the Germanic Limes.

This new cult existed before elsewherebut now was adopted by the Greeks and the Romans

In conclusion in was the same God with its same mystery religion changing names in different empires. The Romans did not invent the mystery religion of Mithra when they adopted it around the 1 st century Bc. They just accepted this already existing religion and gave the same God a different name with a new face.Your example the Mithran blood sacrifice of the bull (taurobolium) first occurred in 160 AD is right . However this cult religion of Mithrasim existed way before.

Paul borrowed from way before certain doctrines and concepts.

The names Mitra, Mithra and Mithras all derive from the Indo-European root "Mihr," which translates both as "friend" and as "contract." While both translations are correct, however, neither gives a full account of the word. "Mihr" itself derives from "mei," an Indo-European root meaning "exchange."

Zoltan2 wrote:In conclusion in was the same God with its same mystery religion changing names in different empires. The Romans did not invent the mystery religion of Mithra when they adopted it around the 1 st century Bc. They just accepted this already existing religion and gave the same God a different name with a new face.

Ok, but it wasn't just the "Romans" that taught Christianity. Christ's arrival was announced by St. john the Baptist (a Jew). The predominant teachers of Christianity were of course Jesus (a Jew) and also Paul (a Jew).

Your example the Mithran blood sacrifice of the bull (taurobolium) first occurred in 160 AD is right . However this cult religion of Mithrasim existed way before.

I never denied that. However it isn't relevant. Countless Pagan religions flourished well before the time of Christ.

Paul borrowed from way before certain doctrines and concepts.

Please explain.

The names Mitra, Mithra and Mithras all derive from the Indo-European root "Mihr," which translates both as "friend" and as "contract." While both translations are correct, however, neither gives a full account of the word. "Mihr" itself derives from "mei," an Indo-European root meaning "exchange."

Interesting information, but, if anything it waters down your argument. It has no bearing on the death, resurrection, and atonement offering of our LORD Jesus Christ.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

Zoltan2 wrote:In conclusion in was the same God with its same mystery religion changing names in different empires. The Romans did not invent the mystery religion of Mithra when they adopted it around the 1 st century Bc. They just accepted this already existing religion and gave the same God a different name with a new face.

Ok, but it wasn't just the "Romans" that taught Christianity. Christ's arrival was announced by St. john the Baptist (a Jew). The predominant teachers of Christianity were of course Jesus (a Jew) and also Paul (a Jew).

Your example the Mithran blood sacrifice of the bull (taurobolium) first occurred in 160 AD is right . However this cult religion of Mithrasim existed way before.

I never denied that. However it isn't relevant. Countless Pagan religions flourished well before the time of Christ.

Paul borrowed from way before certain doctrines and concepts.

Please explain.

The names Mitra, Mithra and Mithras all derive from the Indo-European root "Mihr," which translates both as "friend" and as "contract." While both translations are correct, however, neither gives a full account of the word. "Mihr" itself derives from "mei," an Indo-European root meaning "exchange."

Interesting information, but, if anything it waters down your argument. It has no bearing on the death, resurrection, and atonement offering of our LORD Jesus Christ.

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

These guys are still with us today. Wise men..sophists, wizards, Gnostic's, The enlightened ones. You often see them in colleges wearing the mortar board of their religious beliefs..and if they are very devout...they get into public offices to continue their religion on an unknowledgeable public.

2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.c

No one knows when Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins was born. We are given certain clues...but as to the definite day..it is not in God's Word.Furthermore there is no such instruction both Olde and New Testament to celebrate a birthdays for the Hebrews..nor for the Christians. For these are days of self glorification and all glory is to go to God.The importance of Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins is his death, burial, and Resurrection..not his birth or birthday. For this was and still is a Pagan custom and tradition. It was Never Christian nor of the Hebrew Instructions from God.

The Pagan custom and tradition is that the sun god dies on the shortest day fo the year...December 21/22 and is buried then raised and resurrected after three days in the grave..on the 24/25th of December. This is the custom and tradition of the Pagan sun god...not of Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins. This is the traditions of men infiltrating and overtaking the Word of God..privily ..without most knowing it is going on. I like manner to the Hebrews overlaying the traditions of men on the Word of God ..or the overlaying/superimposing this tradition on top of the Law of Moses as if it was the Law of Moses when it was no such thing.

This is counterfeit tradition of Paganism overlaying/superimposing and attempting to pass as Christian.

WE are to remember, honor, and bring glory to God every day...not just on so called. "Holy Days."

3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.

The Apostles do not represent the signs of the zodiac. This is not from Christianity but from Paganism. We are not to look at the sun , the moon or the stars and be driven to worship them. To observe one day above another..for they are all days belonging to the Lord.

4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.

Lots of people were entombed...tombs are found all over the world.

A celibate priesthood....Wow!! Peter was married. There is no such instruction for Believers to carry on this way. IN the New Testament we are all priests unto God. This is an important clue as to what one is dealing with today....a Priesthood...A clergy separate from the Laity...Nicoliatinism...which the Lord says He hates.

The Hebrews ..like the RCC are going to have a great problem if they manage to replace the Dome of the Rock with another temple and reform the Olde Testament Priesthood. They are going to show themselves little different from the RCC in their workings/dealings. It will be a matter of which Pharisees do you want..Hellenic or Judaic.

Under the New Testament we are all Priests unto God.

6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length). "

The Passover is not the same as the Pagan equinox. However for those not familiar with the man made customs and other religions it is easy to pull this off on them and think they are the same thing.For one thing is clear in the instructions in the Olde Testament...for the Hebrews to not do as the nations surrounding them did..for by this the land was defiled. Abomination!!

The pagan mysteries are indeed very ancient and have a pedigree older than most of the belief systems of today. However there is one tell tale of what any religion is....absolute power in the hands of a king and priesthood.

Where ever and whenever you see a leader or leadership going more and more towards absolute power...you will see the standard of living of the ordinary people at a substance level or lower. And this is exactly the history we see of nations after nation on this earth.

It was not until some nations broke away from the RCC church that we see any real progress in the world to raise the standard of living of these nations which broke away from Rome...in real change.]It took some 200 years from the time Martin Luther posted his 95 points of disagreement with the RCC on the Door of the Wittenburg Church in Germany.1519 is often given as a point where this change is measured as beginning.Withing two hundred years...there was a noticeable change in the standard of living among the ordinary peoples of this earth and the Roman Catholic areas.

Other nations going back into antiquity ..the same can be said. A few had a little...royalty and the priesthood...and the rest had almost nothing.

The same applies today. ...through government traditions..particularly of Inflationary debt spending the wealth of its nation. No different from what was happening in many nations under the "Priest/Kings" religious dogmas. Absolute power...in the hands of men.

The religion of Mithraism..if I want to know alot about it ..I get out my copy of "Morals and Dogma " by Albert Pike..or go to my local Masonic Lodge. Mithrasism is mentioned extensively in Morals and Dogma. For they have alot of information's on it not generally available to the public.

Manley Palmer Hall...of the Rosicrucian Orders would be another source for information's.

Aleister Crowley would be another source.

But I don't have to read up much on this religion itself. All I have to do is look at the economic foot print left in history by these religions. By their fruit you will know them. This footprint is visible unto this very day.

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