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Topic: Single Deeps Wintering in Florida... (Read 3183 times)

I just got through reading one of Walt Wrights manuscripts (Evils of the Double Deep) on why he runs a single deep in the winter. Very interesting read to say the least.

I thought I would do things different this year for the winter, mainly to expand my apiary. I run all double-deeps and two supers but I'm thinking of running one deep with a super. Being in Florida (panhandle) it doesn't get all that cold so I'd like to hear from folks who over winter with 1 deep. Any thoughts on that?

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may remember,involve me and I'll understand" Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways." John F. KennedyFranklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

I was at the Nashville Area Beekeepers meeting Sunday and Mr. Wright was the featured speaker and he did talk about the double deep and explained his reason for not liking the double deep set up. He stressed that in his location which is the southern part of middle TN. he thinks the single deep and two honey shallows work best for him. But also said that in some other locations the double deep may be better. He uses a single under the deep brood box for a pollen box and two singles above.

The three hives I bought from an estate were configured like that. The old man that had the bees got sick and died. The bees were on their own for over a year. Two were single deep with 2 shallow supers with queen excluders, the other was a single deep with one shallow no excluder. There was brood in the single shallow. The hives did have SHBs but so many bees they didn't seem to bother the hive. Naturally I have put them in to 2 deeps. May have to rethink that.

As Walt said in the end of his Beesource article, the solution is simple; use jumbo hives. Dadant and Brother Adam figured this out 100 years ago. Modern beeks just like to make life difficult for some reason :?

Why fool with picking up a deep and putting a shallow under it for winter pollen stores? Why fool with trying to keep brood out of shallow supers in the winter/spring? Why fool with swapping boxes in the spring? Why sort through dozens of brood frames in the spring looking for queen cells? Why do beeks like to make their lives more difficult?

The solution is simple: use jumbo frames. I overwinter in a SINGLE jumbo box in Michigan. No honey boxes on top, no pollen boxes on bottom, no candy boards, no swapping, no nothing; just one box and the bees are boiling out by spring. The large brood frames make a lot of bees. Of coarse my hives are also insulated polystyrene hives which also makes a big difference in wintering success IMO.

Yes Larry, when people talk about jumbo hives, they’re talking about hives with larger frame sizes. Larger as in more comb area per frame than a Deep frame. Dadant and Brother Adam also experimented with different number of frames in a box. I would have to look up what they ended up using, but I think they used up to 12 frames in a box. Brother Adam took a frame or two out for wintering I believe.

Bother Adam and Dadant’s frames were 11 ¼” deep I believe. It’s my guess that modern bees in the USA are more prolific than they were 100 years ago (due to breeding, etc) and hence 11 ¼” deep frames seem like they might be a little undersized for a modern “jumbo” setup IMO. So my frames are 14.5” deep. There are 10,000 cells per frame. I run 10 or 11 frames. That’s a brood nest with 100,000+ cells for brood. Of course they don’t use all 100K cells, but it’s got plenty of capacity for modern queens.

You may use 3 medium system brood or 2 langstroth brood.Women use often mere medium boxes.

I use 3 langstroth brood system without excluder. In summer lowest box is full of pollen.

But don't mix two different frame size in broods. They make procedures inflexible.

This is not science and not worth of article. What you want is where you put the excluder. I do not use it at all.

To winter in one box or two depends on how many brood frames the hive had before brood brake. How much hive reared winter bees, that is the size of wintering hive.

Finland and Florida is very different. There weather is warm and bees winter in loose cluster, if at all.

My hives form a tight cluster when out temp is -10C or -20C. The cluster expands in warm weather and fills the whole box in +10C temp.

My hives have now brood break up to March. Winter bees have emerged and summer bees are almost dead.

Even if my hives has been in 5-8 box in summer, one box may be enough for wintering. Late summer was rainy and cold and brood are was small in late summer. But I join hives to make 2-box winterers. They are quick to expand in Spring.

Here too, if the bees are too tight, they run too hot and do not make winter cluster. They spend too much food and may starve during winter.

But it is easy to see, what is good. I give one brood box for winter. I shake all bees in front of the hive. If they do not have have enough space inside, I give then more . Then I transport them to home yard and start feeding.

Large broof frames are used in Estern Europe in chest and in stagnant hives.There hives must be ften so heavy that thieves cannot carry them.

dadant frame is no ergonomic and it needs extra hangling system. I cannot see any advantage in Florida.Even here plenty of professionals use mere mediums, and at same time many say that dadant is the right size.

The British are strange because they use brood and half. In douple brood system you may change the place of frames between brood boxes but not in one and half system. But it is somethind very old habits which no one remember why.

During my beekeeping years 50 y, the hives has grown 3 times bigger than in those golden years. The nursing systems must be different with that kind of layers.

If brood are too tight, bees store pollen in honey boxes. In my hives they do not store pollen at all in honey boxes because I give to them space under brood and beside walls. It is their natural place.

Back pains are very usual nowadays. Many of us sit the whole day in work, in car, in sofa and in what ever.

When you get older back pains get worse and they do not heal like as young.

I started at the age of 15. I broke my back every summer but it was easy to get allright. Now, when back is hurt , it may take 6 months or 3 weeks or what ever. Now, when I lift 20 kg, my back inform with pain that "this is not nice".

Finski, that’s another beauty of jumbo hives. No back pain because you never have to pick up anything heavy. No swapping boxes in the spring, no lifting to put pollen boxes under in the fall, no lifting one deep to check for queen cells in the bottom deep. No lifting for inspections. No heavy lifting at all. I’ve even got my supers configured so I never have to pick up more than 30 lbs.

As for the British using 1.5 boxes for brood, I don’t know; but Brother Adam didn’t. Brother Adam did things the simple way. One set of frames for brood, and shallows for honey. Brood stays put and honey stays put.

Yes Larry, when people talk about jumbo hives, they’re talking about hives with larger frame sizes. Larger as in more comb area per frame than a Deep frame. Dadant and Brother Adam also experimented with different number of frames in a box. I would have to look up what they ended up using, but I think they used up to 12 frames in a box. Brother Adam took a frame or two out for wintering I believe.

Bother Adam and Dadant’s frames were 11 ¼” deep I believe. It’s my guess that modern bees in the USA are more prolific than they were 100 years ago (due to breeding, etc) and hence 11 ¼” deep frames seem like they might be a little undersized for a modern “jumbo” setup IMO. So my frames are 14.5” deep. There are 10,000 cells per frame. I run 10 or 11 frames. That’s a brood nest with 100,000+ cells for brood. Of course they don’t use all 100K cells, but it’s got plenty of capacity for modern queens.

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may remember,involve me and I'll understand" Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways." John F. KennedyFranklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

As Walt said in the end of his Beesource article, the solution is simple; use jumbo hives. Dadant and Brother Adam figured this out 100 years ago. Modern beeks just like to make life difficult for some reason :?

Why fool with picking up a deep and putting a shallow under it for winter pollen stores? Why fool with trying to keep brood out of shallow supers in the winter/spring? Why fool with swapping boxes in the spring? Why sort through dozens of brood frames in the spring looking for queen cells? Why do beeks like to make their lives more difficult?

The solution is simple: use jumbo frames. I overwinter in a SINGLE jumbo box in Michigan. No honey boxes on top, no pollen boxes on bottom, no candy boards, no swapping, no nothing; just one box and the bees are boiling out by spring. The large brood frames make a lot of bees. Of coarse my hives are also insulated polystyrene hives which also makes a big difference in wintering success IMO.

BlueBee:

If you look at my first post, I was talking about equipment that I already own, not trying to purchase or build more equipment. Also I was talking about a deep and a super, not boxes on the bottom etc. So basically a deep or a deep plus super on top.

I'm not really south FL Doug...more central. I winter in single deeps. This is not because I've got an overwintering system that requires a single but because:

I split in the fall during the Brazillian pepper flow for spring nucs and to reduce populations.I move bees a lot during winter to be ready for spring flows and want my pallets to be stack-able so that more fit on the truck.Feeding is simplified when all of the hives are the same size/strength.

Scott

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