I have never failed to launch since then. I think it is magic, but I'll take it. I open and dress my pie on a tile counter, bench flour to keep everything moving. One of the beauties of the perforated peel is that all the bench flour falls off the bottom of the pie when you jiggle it a bit.

Good luck on whatever method and tools you choose. This will be a happy story, if not sometimes frustrating.

I'm still struggling with this one. I start off with a decent size fire, to the point where I see flames rolling up the vent. I then break down the fire just a bit as I don't want all the heat rolling up the chimney.

I'm also curious to know what the average temperature drop is. I've read various articles/postings about people making some pizzas and then an hour or two later making some bread. I'm loosing about 50 degrees (F) over a few hours. In fact, the tuscan bean soup I was hoping to make tonight will be postponed until tomorrow morning due to a too-hot oven (for the soup).

4. Buy one of the metallic pizza peels. With the holes. Night and day difference. No need to think about it. Just a necessity really.

I just don't get this. My mind keeps telling me that it would actually make things worse. I think some of my problems (beyond high expectations) had to due with the dough recipe I was using. It contained sugar, oil & malted flour. It was *great* on Friday when I was cooking at low temps. Yesterday though, I was constantly fighting a charred bottom (if it came off the peel, that is). While I haven't figured out the hydration on that recipe, I think it has to be pretty high. It was incredibly sticky and I had problems stretching it. As soon as it folded in on itself it was over.

Back to the peel, I just think that with dough that sticky, it would naturally fall into the holes on the peel and make my problem even worse.

I've gotta agree with Tom. You are fighting against what you're trying to achieve. If you want to make Neapolitan pizza at high temp, then you need to make the appropriate dough, which would be 00 flour, yeast/starter, salt and water, nothing else. If you are using the appropriate dough, then the correct tools make sense and work well. I know the raised dome oven that you chose makes it harder to cook Neapolitan pizzas, but until you fix the dough you aren't going to get any closer regardless of flame.

I'm still struggling with this one. I start off with a decent size fire, to the point where I see flames rolling up the vent. I then break down the fire just a bit as I don't want all the heat rolling up the chimney.

I'm also curious to know what the average temperature drop is. I've read various articles/postings about people making some pizzas and then an hour or two later making some bread. I'm loosing about 50 degrees (F) over a few hours. In fact, the tuscan bean soup I was hoping to make tonight will be postponed until tomorrow morning due to a too-hot oven (for the soup).

I just don't get this. My mind keeps telling me that it would actually make things worse. I think some of my problems (beyond high expectations) had to due with the dough recipe I was using. It contained sugar, oil & malted flour. It was *great* on Friday when I was cooking at low temps. Yesterday though, I was constantly fighting a charred bottom (if it came off the peel, that is). While I haven't figured out the hydration on that recipe, I think it has to be pretty high. It was incredibly sticky and I had problems stretching it. As soon as it folded in on itself it was over.

Back to the peel, I just think that with dough that sticky, it would naturally fall into the holes on the peel and make my problem even worse.

-Paul

Paul,

I'm not trying to tell you to reinvent the wheel here. Robin and Tom are trying to tell you the same thing you can read ALL OVER the NP forum re: ingredients of NP dough. I'm not sure how you can be using a dough whose hydration you do not know. Even someone like me who will fudge the HECK out of any recipe given to me knows the hydration of his dough. You gotta know where you are in order to know where you want to go, right?!

And don't get me wrong, I LOVE the versatility of my oven. Steak, chicken, vegetables, even double duty as a smoker, and oh yeah the Tuscan Grill. And yes bread. But not bread two hours after making NP pizza. The bread is for the next DAY!!

Same would go for the Tuscan bean soup. Next day. Definitely.

After the last three bakes, my wife and I actually planned out a three day meal plan with the foundation being "pizza night":

1. Day 1 Pizza night2. Day 2 Put a few small logs on the residual embers and did steaks on the Tuscan grill3. Day 3 Roast chickens without flames, using the residual embers from Day 2. Could have done a soup with those chickens.

Just my bit of advice. Take it if you want; not offended if you don't!

I'm not trying to tell you to reinvent the wheel here. Robin and Tom are trying to tell you the same thing you can read ALL OVER the NP forum re: ingredients of NP dough. I'm not sure how you can be using a dough whose hydration you do not know. Even someone like me who will fudge the HECK out of any recipe given to me knows the hydration of his dough. You gotta know where you are in order to know where you want to go, right?!

Thanks, John. I'm going to dig up a new recipe. At the beginning of the thread, I pondered whether or not to do this - and agreed with folks to go with dough I've successfully used in the past. Despite having "neopolitan" in the name, it isn't suitable for a WFO. Its a great learning less though, and if the NP recipes are everything that people say they are, they should be a lot easier to slide off the peel.

And don't get me wrong, I LOVE the versatility of my oven. Steak, chicken, vegetables, even double duty as a smoker, and oh yeah the Tuscan Grill. And yes bread. But not bread two hours after making NP pizza. The bread is for the next DAY!!

I loved the schedule that you provided, and it triggered a thought - what if I reverse the order a bit? Bread in the morning @ 500 - 550F then some pizzas later on in the day. Its easier to go up in temp, not down.

I fired the oven up for bread two days ago and got it up to 625 the night before (highest yet). I worried that it wouldn't cool down enough by the next morning and left the insulating door off, and the cast iron open a bit. I was shocked to see it down to 350 the next morning. I was hoping for 450. A log or two later I got it back up into bread making range and was successful. So many variables involved. I'd love to get a couple of wireless temp probes that would track the ambient temperature and the dome temp.

Actually - thats not a bad idea. I'll see if I can replace the dome thermometer with something that is bluetooth enabled. I could pair it with my phone and be able to remotely check the temp on my phone. Heck - I might even be able to program something that pings me when the oven hits a certain temp.

Actually - thats not a bad idea. I'll see if I can replace the dome thermometer with something that is bluetooth enabled. I could pair it with my phone and be able to remotely check the temp on my phone. Heck - I might even be able to program something that pings me when the oven hits a certain temp.

-Paul

That would be fantastic

However it could be a 3 am wake-up call just to get some bread in.

Well, after all it is how they did it back in the days. The bread maker woke before everyone to fire the oven and cook the bread so it would be ready by 7am.

Actually - thats not a bad idea. I'll see if I can replace the dome thermometer with something that is bluetooth enabled. I could pair it with my phone and be able to remotely check the temp on my phone. Heck - I might even be able to program something that pings me when the oven hits a certain temp.

-Paul

My iGrill would give you the bluetooth capabilities you are talking about.

I made another round of pizzas this evening using a dough recipe from Mitchjg. It came out way better than last weekend, although I still ran into some difficulties with stretching the dough and launching it into the oven.

Oven management - I spent four hours getting the oven up to temperature. When it hit 650, I took out the temperature and continued to throw in logs. When I had a nice layer of coals, I let it sit for 30min to an hour or so before I pushed it to its side. When I did push everything over, the hearth & dome were between 950 and 1k. As I made pizzas, it cooled down to 850 or so and I had better success.

I think the caputo 00 I used made a large difference, but I still got some char on the bottom. I need to find the right temperature where I get a nice cooked crust with minimal char on the pizza. Because the dough was sticky when stretching (62% hydration) I used some 00 to dust my hands and the top of the dough as I stretched it. I also made the pizzas on a wooden peel that was dusted with some semolina - I think it helped. I do get a distinct taste of char though, but I suspect that it will get better over time as I gain more experience with the tools.

I've attached a couple of pics. One if the oven 30min before the first pie was launched. The pie pictured was uncured pepperoni, buffala moz, and straight san marzanos. It was damn good.

And if you don't want NP pies, you can use other than Caputo flour and work the temp for whatever style you want, but unless it is a 7 minute + pizza, you will still not really want any oil or sugar in the dough.

This morning I woke up and made another round of dough. I took a recipe from Mitchjg (thanks!) for dough that was a mix of KABP/00. I also made some straight up 00 dough balls at about 62%. I planned ahead and started a fire around noon and slowly brought the oven up to about 750. Not the ideal temp for a true VPN pie, but I was able to slow things down and practice.

No pics unfortunately.

My favorite pizza of the night was garlic scapes (sautéed in EVOO) with fresh arugula from our garden. No cheese. A little EVOO drizzled over the top and it was over the top. The sweet scapes + the bitter arugula was the perfect combination. I headed the advice that less is more and went easy on the sauce. Made a huge difference - thanks!

I hit a major milestone today - all pizzas were successfully launched off the peel into the oven. Even better, most of them were round. The trick, I found, was to rub 00 into the grain of a wooden peel and build the pie on that. I sprinkled enough 00 flour onto the sticky dough ball so that it was manageable. I realize now that I didn't use enough flour while stretching previously. Once the pie was built, I'd slide it under the metal peel (with a pinch of semolina) and then run it out to the oven.

Regarding fire management, I built a decent sized fire slowly in the center until the dome went clear. I then pushed everything off to the side that I would cook on and added more wood. When it was time to make the pies, I banked everything over to the other side and added more wood. It worked out well. When the first pie went in, I was at about 800 hearth/dome. It slowly lowered after that, which was fine by me. The KABP/00 dough cooked in about 2.5 - 3 min. The rolling flames went out a few times, but a couple of small logs took care of that problem.

I am really loving this oven. It is nice when everything "clicks" and nothing comes out burnt. I think I have enough confidence to invite friends over next weekend for my first pizza party. I have some baguettes rising in the fridge for tomorrow morning's breakfast. I'm digging it. Couldn't get here without the help from the forum - thanks!!

This morning I woke up and made another round of dough. I took a recipe from Mitchjg (thanks!) for dough that was a mix of KABP/00. I also made some straight up 00 dough balls at about 62%. I planned ahead and started a fire around noon and slowly brought the oven up to about 750. Not the ideal temp for a true VPN pie, but I was able to slow things down and practice.

No pics unfortunately.

My favorite pizza of the night was garlic scapes (sautéed in EVOO) with fresh arugula from our garden. No cheese. A little EVOO drizzled over the top and it was over the top. The sweet scapes + the bitter arugula was the perfect combination. I headed the advice that less is more and went easy on the sauce. Made a huge difference - thanks!

I hit a major milestone today - all pizzas were successfully launched off the peel into the oven. Even better, most of them were round. The trick, I found, was to rub 00 into the grain of a wooden peel and build the pie on that. I sprinkled enough 00 flour onto the sticky dough ball so that it was manageable. I realize now that I didn't use enough flour while stretching previously. Once the pie was built, I'd slide it under the metal peel (with a pinch of semolina) and then run it out to the oven.

Regarding fire management, I built a decent sized fire slowly in the center until the dome went clear. I then pushed everything off to the side that I would cook on and added more wood. When it was time to make the pies, I banked everything over to the other side and added more wood. It worked out well. When the first pie went in, I was at about 800 hearth/dome. It slowly lowered after that, which was fine by me. The KABP/00 dough cooked in about 2.5 - 3 min. The rolling flames went out a few times, but a couple of small logs took care of that problem.

I am really loving this oven. It is nice when everything "clicks" and nothing comes out burnt. I think I have enough confidence to invite friends over next weekend for my first pizza party. I have some baguettes rising in the fridge for tomorrow morning's breakfast. I'm digging it. Couldn't get here without the help from the forum - thanks!!

-Paul

Hi Paul,

Terrific to hear about the progress you are making!

For clarity, You mention KABP - did you mean KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour) or KAAP (King Arthur All Purpose)?(For others, I suggested a workflow inspired by Jeff Varsano with a mix of 70% KABF and 30% 00 to cook at around 700 or so.)

Tell us how much yeast you used and if you cold fermented and for how long?

The details of the recipe?

As far as sticking, it sounds like you may have it conquered. A lot of folks dip the dough ball in a bowl of flour, turn it over to coat the other side, and then begin opening the dough. So, yes, it sounds like you were torturing yourself with too little bench flour.

If you want to use 100% 00, you should go higher in temperature. Get the floor into the mid 800's or more.

For parties, I have gravitated towards the KABF/00 mix in the 700s. I am not yet skilled enough to manage the 00 pies at the higher temperatures when dealing with a volume, talking with folks, etc. You may want to do the same while you are getting your skills up.