In this world yes, I am a capitalist bacause that is the most realistic path for me to attain power(not over others, just over my life). I do not want to abstain from life until someone overthrows the military industrial complex, divides up the land equally and creats a hippy utopia, and I cannot do it on my own. And even if I could it would take money and organisation, which sitting on the dole slagging off people who try, will not get me much of.

That's sounds reasonable to me, I tried it to for many years; but that's just not me. I can't afford to spend the rest of my life accumulating wealth nor working for something that I'm just not interested in. Too many things that I still have to do before I die.

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Originally Posted by kitler

How come if I invest my own money and create a business and invite people to work with me in exchange for a share of the profits and produce then I am bad and exploitative?

That's fair enough, as it would be a cooperative.

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Originally Posted by kitler

Yet if I sit on my arse living off money stolen from people who work via taxation , then I am good and not in any way an exploiter?

Well... I haven't worked for years, and I'm also not on the dole.

Unfortunately, we live in capitalism, and those who benefit more from it never do a day's work. Said that, I don't look to be wealthy, just to keep this level forever (unless things change).

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Originally Posted by kitler

And why do you assume I make a class distinction between myself and those who work with me? Why do you assume I would draw a wage higher than them? Why do you feel the need to see those who work with me as poor and opressed when in reality they have often been more wealthy than myself because they had not invested all their savings in a business?

Because you talked about "you" and "the workers", if you didn't made distinctions you would have said: "we". But maybe I misinterpreted you, for that you just said now.

You are. I need to go find such a figurehead for them to slobber over. They will never know my face. They will die in thier millions for me and they will never know why. But they will die happy because a tough guy said it was a good thing to do.

As soon as I get up tomorrow I'm signing up to Stormfront. The kind of inspirational fucknugget I need must be lurking in there somewhere

I'm not really sure what you're asking.. but there's the libertarian 'party', which is inherently rightwing, and then there's simply the definition of 'liberty', ie. freedom, which can obviously also exist within collectivist (leftist) societies.

I wasn't calling you out on it or anything, just trying to learn. I think what you are referring to I might call a civil-libertarian, but I don't know if that is the conventional definition.

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Within the prison of your world appears a man who tells you that the world of painful contradictions, which you have created, is neither continuous nor permanent and is based on a misapprehension. He pleads with you to get out of it, by the same way by which you got into it. You got into it by forgetting what you are and you will get out of it by knowing yourself as you are. -- Nisargadatta Maharaj

I'll have more belief in him when he accepts goods and services in lue of money and places them in the perfect society he himself has built, as opposed to the one everyone else is supposed to build for him.