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Facinating, Dan, thanks.....I started Aikido looking for all the stuff you are talking about, but I think I got lost along the way (so-to-speak). Thanks again for reminding me.

Quote:

In Aikido
Enter the place where
Nothing Works

Hello Mr Sawers while I appreciate the sarcasm- at the end of the day...things are as they are and they continue. I don't suspect to see any suprises among the status quo any day soon.
My bets are on the ones doing the heavy lifting to change and improve things.
Dan

Who is out there training IS/IP? Why are you still training IS/IP and what impact has it had on your training?

I took a long break from doing aikido-derived modern jujutsu in order to learn CIMA. Initially, that was for tactics and movement, but the longer I practice bagua, taiji, and xingyi the more I find it changing my approach to budo at a foundational level. I am so far off the reservation when it comes to how I approach locking/throwing at this point I am not sure someone watching me do applications would really say it is aikido or jujutsu. This has made it hard for me to go to a dojo and join in on aikido practice, but I have had lots of good discussions and individual training experiences with people who continue to practice aikido and are working on making internal ideas work in the context of aikido. Because starting CIMA involved me leaving my previous budo group, instead of it being an adjunct to my ongoing practice, I think my experience will be different from some others. I think the task of taking internal ideas and practicing them within the context of an existing practice, versus on their own, is very ambitious and challenging, and I am not sure I would be able to do well at both at the same time. It is hard enough to go from dojo to dojo within a single art, let alone incorporate a sophisticated practice of certain skills into an existing curriculum, especially if you are not the person defining it (e.g., average student at a school who is interested in the internal).

As to why -- the practice has fundamentally changed how I viewed martial arts and given me something that I feel has more depth and potential for exploration than the self-defence oriented judo/aikido/karate mix I had been practicing. I feel that committing to bagua, taiji, and xingyi has improved my practice considerably, and I was happy to put my jujutsu practice on pause and focus on learning instead of continuing to teach or trying to integrate basics from neijia into my jujutsu practice. Taking the time to learn some arts in a more focused manner was the right thing for me to do, but everyone will be different.

First and foremost: I'm training IS because I want to have the kind of real power that allows me to be merciful.

I started training in pugilistic disciplines as a lad and into my 20s, just to defend myself, but as my wisdom and compassion matured, I gravitated to more grappling style arts, as I'd rather have the capability to subdue or incapacitate (yes, even if it means breaking parts of them) an attacker, rather than potentially kill someone with blows to the head.

But still I'm searching for that leg-up that gives me the edge. I want to be able to dominate so completely in a confrontation as to have the REAL option to be merciful. I used to think it was about perfecting technique, but it's so much simpler (and more difficult at the same time) than that. I'm grateful to have met and learned from some extremely talented people on the path to IS skill training.

Secondly, I'm a huge nerd for martial arts-- not in the Tap Out shirt armchair warrior way or the obsessed Bruce Lee fan with "katanas" from chinatown on my walls way, but rather in the geeked out, I need to figure this out way.

My own teacher, Neil Yamamoto got me started thinking about this on another level 10 years ago, and when I've had the lucky occasion to learn from folks with genuine IS skills (and the ability to teach)-- I geek out completely.

Ark's stuff has been a wonderful puzzle for the last several years and has greatly improved my structure and ability to access ground-path, and now that I've had a chance to meet and learn from Dan and his students, I'm spinning trying to catch up and train my mind to teach my body this (new to me) stuff. Nerding out hard.

Third, I love IS work as it is testable, and requires self-examination. It is a process which does not lie. There is constant failure as well as the potential for growth and success thru hard work. This is the hallmark of any viable real skill.

I love IS work as it is testable, and requires self-examination. It is a process which does not lie. There is constant failure as well as the potential for growth and success thru hard work. This is the hallmark of any viable real skill.

I train IS from the perspective of understanding the whole "cultivate yourself" perspective that martial arts were eventually purported to enable beyond the immediately practical battlefield/dueling/fighting aspects (spent my time in combat sports/arts so already been there, kinda over proving whether I'm tough or not). What's fun is that over time I continue to practice these things as my balance, sensitivity to the connection between myself and another person, and ability to receive/issue power all increase - they translates nicely into practicing aikido waza, putting the gloves on and sparring, or body/body grappling.

I think of timing differently than I used to - I can join better with another person before touching them in a way that I would have considered more "woowoo" stuffs pre-IS training. Then when we do make contact I can be "already arrived" in an initial superior position with regard to their balance (presuming their skills aren't better than mine, or their size/surprise/strength/speed/skills combo doesn't otherwise offset the advantage IS can confer). Same thing at striking range as I can "line up" on someone with minimal movement that can make it harder for them to throw a clean strike with power (again, superior skill/things can overcome this advantage). It's been a while since I've played with weapons, but I see definite overlaps there, too.

As far as raw power, I can hit considerably harder than I could pre-IS, with much smaller movement. I can also hit with more power from weirder angles and with different parts of the body - which has more to do with growing the ability to hit with "all of or as much of your body moving together as one unit as possible" out of any one part of your body (hand, elbow, shoulder, head, etc.) rather than a new hitting "technique" (elbow strike, headbutt, etc.). To me this is much closer to the aikido intent of "atemi" than a strike that intentionally doesn't connect, or presumes uke will move - or conversely adding on pugilism from another system (karate, muay thai) to aikido (not arguing against it, but I'm thinking pure "body strikes" rather than pugilistic technique in this definition).

Grappling gets interesting as well (and I consider many waza of aikido to be a standing jujutsu form of grappling) as your balance and connection with another can give an advantage that makes it feel like you're ahead of their "balance loop" such that you can be immovable along one line of attack, then if the line changes you're ahead of it to capitalize and deflect it into another direction, or counter - without changing much of your outward configuration (again, this advantage can be offset somewhat by other attributes). This I think (along with hitting) gets into the realm of how it "feels different" and "must be felt" for people to understand if and why they are or are not "already doing that".

But I think the genuine seeker will be looking at these things with healthy skepticism and an open mind, while hopefully being smart enough to clinically assess encounters and things seen/learned so that they can make their own choices and eventually own their own progress.

One of the truths I believe around this type of study is that there's a huge amount of independent work that the individual must be self-accountable for - physically and mentally. On one level, this stuff is basically physical conditioning in a different kind of way with a different purpose and desirable outcome than is common in western sports practices, but still rooted in hard work, hours of practice and an unending drive to self-analyze, self-criticize and self-correct. On another level, the mental work that accompanies the physical exertion is exhausting, prone to misdirection, self-perception issues and generally a pain in the tookus.

And like others have said, it's opened my eyes to the foundational "stuff" that goes into all martial arts at their roots, in varying levels of sophistication and purpose, which leads back to self-cultivation, personal ownership and empowerment - which has been a huge appeal for me in years of martial arts study. The pursuit of these things then has an enabling effect across a multitude of other endeavors.

I am. Still doing it because it gets results, altho, I have been doing more weight lifting lately, and this, combined with relaxing the shoulders and trying to prevent the opponent from feeling my feet, has gotten some good results in freestyle grappling practice.

Why am I doing it? Same reason as when I started. Looking for the best results in the shortest amount of time.

Why still...surely the question should be once you have started to train IS why would you stop?

Does it work? Does it give you power you never thought you had? In my recent experience...the answer is unfortunately a resounding YES! (I helped a woman who was being attacked and it is costing me big!)

I'm training in IS all the time - I've met both Mike & Dan as well as having trained with Ikeda sensei a fair old amount over the past 10 to 15 years.

We have 1 class a week dedicated to IS as well as using it within our aikido (or trying to) during all normal classes (that I happen to be teaching).

I'm still doing it because I now get what Ikeda sensei does and how - not that I can do it all obviously but I 'get' what he's doing. For me, it was Mike Sigman that explained the ABC's exceptionally well and gave me a far greater understanding than anyone else so far and it was Ikeda sensei that pretty much made me look into this stuff, I wanted to be able to do what he does, simple as that .

I took the chance to meet one of the aforementioned proponents of Aiki, as soon as money and family commitments would allow, and can honestly say was one of the best investments I could have made.

Having only studied Aikido for 3 years, I had a nagging feeling that people were onto something when posting on Aikiweb out Aiki and internal strength.

Having only been to one "Aiki" seminar, it took me about 2 minutes to see the potential and potency of this training, if done correctly.

Although a newbie to martial arts in general, I've studied hours of dvd and youtube footage and get out when I can to meet teachers. All I can say is when I saw the Aiki teacher perform an aikido technique, his whole body spiralled from his feet to his hands, I've never quite seen movement like it, and from that moment on, I wanted to get his body skill.

The other noticeable benefit was that this teacher could move like Ueshiba, remaining stable and pivoting around a central point - continuously, sounds simple, but observed very rarely.

I want to be able to store the power generated, so when people grab you in a dojo, they're already connected, via your body/mental conditioning. I want power on demand, being able to make atemi's from any position with a fully connected body. Easier said than done.

I have had a bad back for 10 years, of which after 4 months of training on average 4-5 hours a week, it has gone. No chiropracter, physio or doctor could diagnose an accurate problem, never mind provide a pain relief or cure.

I just wish I had the time to commit to this training even more, as the more this is practised the better the results, like most things IMO.