You are arguing with yourself there BA, but I couldn't agree more. As for where the royalties go...my guess is they get swallowed up in the General Fund like everything else. Gotta love that autopilot entitlement spending on autopilot! Yeeeeee Haaaaaaaw.

FallaciesAbound

05-30-2010, 08:37 AM

Just thought it was funny that you repeatedly posted in your own thread. Some people cant take a joke. :p Who was it meant for?

Well, since top kill didnt work, think they will be calling the Sham-WOW! guy any time soon to clean it up? Or maybe they can get one of those Can Saver things and stick it over the pipe. Works great on my Dr. Pepper. :rolleyes:

FallaciesAbound

05-30-2010, 05:40 PM

2 characters are required to delete this post..
Im starting to think that English isnt your first language.:p

FallaciesAbound

05-31-2010, 09:59 AM

Expecting government to do anything efficiently or effectively is like hearding cats. Not that the private sector is all that much better since avarice, sloth, and risk taking are essential characteristics of human nature. The best society can ever do is to punish the offenders, which you an only do after the fact.

The president is not king, and comes with his own error prone, massive bureaucracy under him. While I am certainly no fan of the current administration, I do recognize the limitations of the office. Presidents receive far to much blame and far too much credit for things that happen under their watch. That being said, the response to this certainly could have been far better, and far faster, but I dont think it takes a conspiracy to have what is really quite normal human incompetence such as this.

FallaciesAbound

06-02-2010, 04:23 PM

Like I said, you would think the President/government would demand BP provide hundreds of hazmat workers, but I think not, so, therefore, I do not expect government to do anything effectively or efficiently.

Thank goodness fallacies is one of those Americans, 20 percent or so, who believe the President is handling the BP oil GUSH CRISIS effectively and efficiently.

Presidents are puppets.

They receive the blame and credit that their puppet masters orchestrate.

The blame rolls off their backs like a duck in water.

They don't sweat it and you shouldn't either, Mr. Sympathizer.
How on Earth could you get the idea that I think Obama is doing a good job in any respect? I have never seen a poster in any forum so willfully misunderstand , misinterpret, and misrepresent the postings of others as I have with you.

What I was pointing out was that all governments are inherently inept and corrupt, at least once they get to a certain size. I am fortunate to live in an area populated by small towns. One thing always struck me about this area: even though we have all the usual problems that come with a town, and some unusual problems like repeated flooding, the budgets of my town and the ones around it always came in under budget every year. Is it because the people here are less corrupt? Hardly, a couple of our comptrollers are in the state pen for embezzling. Is it because we have fewer problems? Not really. Provide fewer services, absolutely not.

However, the one major difference is size. The budgets are smaller, so less pork and corruption can be hidden within them. There is less of a bureaucracy, so all processes move faster. Decision makers (now I know this is going to be a really hard concept to grasp, since we are all used to the federal government) MAKE DECISIONS. They don't wait for the opinions of twenty legal councils, or establish blue ribbon commissions to look into the matter. They just do it.

So the point I was making is that it is unreasonable to expect any president to rapidly respond to any problem for which a small military unit like the SEALS is unsuited. The bureaucracy, lawyering, and regulations slow the event-decision-response curve to a flatline. Sadly, Federalism seems to be dead, and the Federal government has grown to an unwieldy size, as ponderous as a three legged elephant. Expecting the help of the government is about as effectual as praying for rain.

FallaciesAbound

06-03-2010, 10:33 PM

I have no clue what point you are trying to make, and, quite frankly, I couldn't care any less because your point is pointless, Eire, the troll.
I thought it was a fairly obvious point I was making there. Not sure why you are having trouble understanding it. And there was not a single word in defense of Obie, so I am still not sure where you are getting that idea from.:rolleyes:

FallaciesAbound

06-03-2010, 10:59 PM

Once again, you are wrong. I was not defending Obama, but stating my opinion that expecting any government, especially one run by a liberal democrat, as ponderous as the FED to actually move and get something done is preposterous. What does it matter to them? Elections swing on clever ad campaigns far more than they do on actual performance. Hell, even dingbat Bush was able to get two terms. So expecting the real world government to handle a situation effectively, especially one that is truly complicated and difficult in the best conditions (and this obviously is not) is tilting at windmills.

FallaciesAbound

06-04-2010, 05:11 PM

I am not excusing them in the least. Why do you continue to mis-represent my argument? You are focusing in on one man,Obama (and I just bet it was Bush before that) and you are failing to see that the problem is with the entire system. It has grown too large to ever be effective, and so large that all manner of corruption can easily get swallowed up in it. All thanks to dumbass progressive liberals and their welfare state, and nannyist RW religious types that want to regulate everyone's life according to a book written in committee 2000 years ago. There need not be some group of Bilderburgers or a Springsteen cult running things for BS like the spill to happen. Its the tyrany of ignorance and apathy that has created this situation. As society got easier people became more and more complacent about things that affect their lives in dramatic ways. Like basic economics and accountability of public office. You want a conspiracy, just look no farther than the NEA. They have been constantly dumbing down our kids so that they can blame the problem on lack of funding and demand higher salaries for their members. You want to fight the power, start with the public sector unions.....then you might have something.

RedAngel

06-08-2010, 03:16 AM

BP themselves anounced a few days ago that they will pay for everything.

FallaciesAbound

06-09-2010, 09:16 AM

I don't misrepresent you.

You misrepresent yourself.

Yeah.

Right.

I fail to see that the problem is with the entire system.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with my posts on this forum and you'll see that I denounce the system of control over our leaders and representatives.

I never focus on one man and I have never focused on Obama, himself.

You did.

I don't want a conspiracy.

There is a conspiracy and I'm exposing it.

You want to blame the people for being complacent.

The fact of the matter is that they aren't complacent.

They just simply do not have any power.
What is power except the concentration of interests onto one or a few individuals? Please explain to the group how you could have an egalitarian political system where "the people" have the power.

FallaciesAbound

06-11-2010, 10:34 AM

Power in this world does not rest in the concentration of interests onto one or a few individuals.

One or few individuals is a gross understatement.

You are the person who accused the people of being complacent.

I pointed out that the people aren't complacent.

They simply do not have the power.

I never said there could be an egalitarian political system where the people have the power so why have you requested that I explain it?
OK, so if the people dont have the power, and you cant envision a system where they do have the power, then arent you conceding my point that mixed-oligarchy is the natural human condition?

That being said, I do still believe that complacency is one of the real problems. Revolutions can and do happen, and, for a time at least, do bring beneficial outcomes often. So to say that the people have no power, when a revolt of the people can bring down even the most powerful regime, seems ludicrous.

FallaciesAbound

06-18-2010, 06:01 PM

Who said I can't envision a system wherein the people have the power?

You?

Obviously.

Because I never said so.

You continue to suggest that which other members of this forum have not stated.

Your username, fallaciesabound, is quite befitting of yourself.

Certainly, people with power can bring about a revolt and people without power cannot.

However, as I've stated, at present, THE PEOPLE HAVE NO POWER so there will not be a revolt in the near future.

Just as they desire.

People without power equals no revolt.

You can attempt to twist my words as much as you like, FA, but it ain't happenin', pal.

Now or ever.

Oh, and BTW, Eire, please check your posts as far as your father being a rocket scientist.
What the hell are you talking about?

So, please enlighten us as to this egalitarian system of government where the people have the power? How would that possibly work while avoiding the obvious pitfalls of a pure democracy?

As for your ideas about revolt, you are way off. The French nobility certainly had all the power, until a revolt toppled them. The same was true in the American revolution.

And I think you are confusing me with someone else again. Sorry to disappoint a crazy person.

GEORGE DORN

06-24-2010, 05:58 PM

It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt, ( sometimes ) .

Why do some people continually try to critisize, put down and ridicule others ?

The fact that "we" are on a forum entitled "Club Conspiracy" seems to imply that "we" are of ilk mind even if "we" do not agree on certain issues.

We are all children, the only difference between young children and old children is thier vocabulary/knowledge. Some children refuse to grow up and try to prevent others from advancing and evolving. These immature children should be ignored, if "we" don't play,they will go away.