This combination of selective emphasis and conservative, narrow or simplistic interpretation hasmade Theravada what it is. By highlighting different material from the Pali Tipitaka andinterpreting it in different but equally or perhaps in even more valid ways, one could have quite adifferent type of Buddhism. And in fact this did happen. The Sravastavadians, Dharmaguptakas,Sautantikas, the Abhayagirivasins, etc, were different schools with a different ‘feel’ despite basingthemselves on a Sutta and Vinaya Pitaka that were the same or substantially the same as the Pailones. Unfortunately, all these schools disappeared leaving Theravadians holding the field as the sole‘orthodox’ interpreters of the Buddha’s teaching in its earliest form. Of course a Theravadin wouldsay that it is dangerous or unnecessary to interpret or elaborate on the Buddha’s words. But drawingdeeper or broader meanings from the Buddha’s words was being done even during his own lifetime.See for example how Maha Kacchyana very creatively reinterpreted one of the Buddha’s sayingsfrom the Sutta Nipata (S.III,9). It seems that when it comes to something negative or theoreticalTheravadin are able to be remarkably creative. It is only with the practical, the positive or anythingoutside the narrow orbit in which they have chosen to operate that they seem to be lost for words. Itshould come as no surprise that in its two thousand year history Theravada has produced no greatreligious thinkers – no Augustine, Aquinas or Erasmus, no Nagarjuna, Tsong Khapa or Dogen.

It's kind of sad how this text is being passed around the Internet with people all saying how excellent it is and what a revelation it is. Maybe it's a revelation to cyber-Buddhists, but not to anyone living in a Buddhist country or who has done some reading.

The very essence of the Buddha's message was that suffering can be overcome by changing our mind rather than by trying to change the world. Yet here we have the author displaying the classic fault-finding mind, wanting the perfect doctrine, the perfect sangha, perfect teachers, perfect monasteries and perfect laity. Well, we all want perfect Buddhism but it isn't out there anywhere and to wish for it is futile.

This is why I admire the Forest Tradition so much. You don't hear Ajahns Sumedho, Thanissaro, Brahm, et al constantly pissing and moaning about things not being perfect. They just get on with the job of getting enlightened and teaching others how to do it....

It would seem that the author prizes philosophy over liberation. I guess everyone's got their own priorities.

Metta,Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

It would seem that the author prizes philosophy over liberation. I guess everyone's got their own priorities.

Metta,Retro.

I agree Retro, if it was't linked to someone I would of thought this quote was by a self proclaimed Monk idiot I know.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

thecap wrote:Isn't it more interesting to know what part of it is true and what is mere polemics?

Once you see that someone's assumptions / priorities / beliefs are so disparative and irreconcilable with your own, you realise it is more profitable to spend one's limited time investigating other matters.

Once for example, I see a friend express an opinion regarding the greatness of Bob Dylan, I realise that their musical tastes are so wildly different to my own, that I have no need to seek his thoughts on the merits of the new Pet Shop Boys album, for example.

thecap wrote:But what about discernment?

To me, that is the discernment... to know that investigation along such channels is of no benefit... that is not conducive to renunciation and enlightenment.

Metta,Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

i went and read that whole article, and he makes a lot of valid points,however i think his solutions are somewhat absurd, and if not outright they at least border on wanting to cause a schism in the sangha...

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

retrofuturist wrote:Once for example, I see a friend express an opinion regarding the greatness of Bob Dylan, I realise that their musical tastes are so wildly different to my own, that I have no need to seek his thoughts on the merits of the new Pet Shop Boys album, for example.

I assume you are talking about me. I will not apologise for having good taste.Out of politeness and not wishing to make you cry, I have refrained from telling you what I think of the Petshop Boys.

However, when you said:

Once you see that someone's assumptions / priorities / beliefs are so disparative and irreconcilable with your own, you realise it is more profitable to spend one's limited time investigating other matters.

I couldn't agree more.

Kind regards

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

And, of course, this is about Dhamma .... so ..... I'm really just showing how we are all subject to birth aging sickness and death. Not to mention impermanence ....

This was Bob Dylan as we first knew him .....

See what wearing hats does to you??

mettaChris

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

The hat suits Bob... alternatively, with hair like that maybe he should have become a bhikkhu.

Pass the clippers...

Metta,Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

Isn't it more interesting to know what part of it is true and what is mere polemics?

(Asking the fair question sort of implies that you think it can't be entirely false critique.)

Kind regards,thecap

thecap ... what do you mean by "discernment" ? Do you mean:paññā (Pali) which has been translated as "wisdom," "understanding," "discernment," "cognitive acuity," or "know-how?

or something else?

mettaChris

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---