Are you talking about how Alonso crushed seven time WDC M Schumacher twice in a row to win back to back WDC's, or are you talking about how Hamilton has one choke in a row and is going for back to back chokes in 2008?

You sure are a good for a laugh Slate... Full of hate as always

By your definition, MS "crushed" Alonso 3 times then (01, 03, 04)

Regarding 07, Alonso was outperformed by a rookie. Hamilton led him from the 3d race onwards. That's one hell of an achievment from Hamilton and something really embarrassing for the "MS crusher".Your constant bashing of Hamis morals while defending Alonsos is really hilarious. Hamiltons behaviour last year stooped nowhere low as Alonsos. From throwing his toys out of the pram, to media whining (Spanish media mostly), to blocking his teammate, ratting his team out and finally trying to blackmail his boss into giving him nr 1 status cause he couldn't beat Hami on track. Poor old Alonso, you gotta feel him, he played the whole drama queen repertoire but still got beaten by the rookie... It's gotta hurt Slate, I understand. But try and vent that anger somewhere else...

And you clearly didn't like, and had no answer to the first response...;)

Answer what? He bested Schumacher twice in a row and won back to back WDC's in the process, all the bleating is just excuses. Bottom line Schumacher is a champion, Alonso is a champion and Hamilton is a choker, that may change but for now it is the lay of the land in F1.

Originally posted by angst Dennis's job is not to stroke the egos of his drivers, nor is it to quell competitiveness within the team.

Rons job is to win WCs and if that requires ego stroking then he must stroke or risk failing at his duty which he did. F1 is a business and its about winning first and foremost. Lat year Ron forgot and paid the worst price. Utter failure, massive fine and losing their greatest asset. And it could possibly get worse this year if they drop back from ferrari.

Regarding 07, Alonso was outperformed by a rookie. Hamilton led him from the 3d race onwards. That's one hell of an achievment from Hamilton and something really embarrassing for the "MS crusher".Your constant bashing of Hamis morals while defending Alonsos is really hilarious. Hamiltons behaviour last year stooped nowhere low as Alonsos. From throwing his toys out of the pram, to media whining (Spanish media mostly), to blocking his teammate, ratting his team out and finally trying to blackmail his boss into giving him nr 1 status cause he couldn't beat Hami on track. Poor old Alonso, you gotta feel him, he played the whole drama queen repertoire but still got beaten by the rookie...

How ironic that you accuse someones defence of Alonso as hilarious when you then go and defend Hamilton while attacking Alonso for the very same things. Heres news for you. Hamilton was the first driver to throw his toys out of the pram and attack the team in 2007, at Monaco. The first driver to whine to the media, the first to block his team mate. Gets those facts into your head before you post here again.

And Alonso black mailing is just speculation. No proof of that and never will be unless Alonso admitts it.

Answer what? He bested Schumacher twice in a row and won back to back WDC's in the process, all the bleating is just excuses. Bottom line Schumacher is a champion, Alonso is a champion and Hamilton is a choker, that may change but for now it is the lay of the land in F1.

That doesn't answer the response given though, does it? Because there is none, and that's why you didn't like it....

Rons job is to win WCs and if that requires ego stroking then he must stroke or risk failing at his duty which he did. F1 is a business and its about winning first and foremost. Lat year Ron forgot and paid the worst price. Utter failure, massive fine and losing their greatest asset. And it could possibly get worse this year if they drop back from ferrari.

Rons job is to win WCs and if that requires ego stroking then he must stroke or risk failing at his duty which he did. F1 is a business and its about winning first and foremost. Lat year Ron forgot and paid the worst price. Utter failure, massive fine and losing their greatest asset. And it could possibly get worse this year if they drop back from ferrari.

You are right! Ron should have backed Lewis when it became obvious that Lewis was the teams best bet for the WDC. Ron should not have gifted Monaco to Alonso. Ron should not have critisized Lewis for Hungary.Instead he should have stroked Hamiltons ego and the WDC would be in their pocket. But stupid Ron didn't do that, instead he gave both Lewis and Alonso equal chance and the result was catastrophic...

Interesting pattern of posting. Just to be clear, are you saying you don't like Hamilton?

Originally posted by SlateGray

Shame the Golden Child could not finish what he started

Are you talking about how Alonso crushed seven time WDC M Schumacher twice in a row to win back to back WDC's, or are you talking about how Hamilton has one choke in a row and is going for back to back chokes in 2008?

You missed the second part. Do you think Hamilton can do the double, choke that is.

Ok lets wait until he wins a WDC, could be a long wait. Could be never. But if he wants to choke twice on the trot he should mantain his current form and the choking will take care of itself.

Answer what? He bested Schumacher twice in a row and won back to back WDC's in the process, all the bleating is just excuses. Bottom line Schumacher is a champion, Alonso is a champion and Hamilton is a choker, that may change but for now it is the lay of the land in F1.

That doesn't answer the response given though, does it? Because there is none, and that's why you didn't like it....

Problem is the Ham fan is wrong on two of three counts and will never be happy with the real truth. Would this Ham fan be happier if Alonso had choked in 05 and 06 in place of winning B2B WDC's? Perhaps it is better to lose by ****ing up than win by being smart

How ironic that you accuse someones defence of Alonso as hilarious when you then go and defend Hamilton while attacking Alonso for the very same things. Heres news for you. Hamilton was the first driver to throw his toys out of the pram and attack the team in 2007, at Monaco. The first driver to whine to the media, the first to block his team mate. Gets those facts into your head before you post here again.

And Alonso black mailing is just speculation. No proof of that and never will be unless Alonso admitts it.

You obviously don't read my posts very well.I'm not defending Hamilton for Hungary. He clearly stepped over the line there. In Monaco he complained about not having been allowed to follow his strategy out, 5 laps more of fuel. He might not have won, but we'll never know, since Ron decided Alonso should win.

Those were the transgressions that one can condemn Lewis for.Alonso on the other hand was in a league of his own. So for a poster to spout bile about Hamiltons ethics while defending Alonso is indeed hilarious. And hypocritical...

You obviously don't read my posts very well.I'm not defending Hamilton for Hungary. He clearly stepped over the line there. In Monaco he complained about not having been allowed to follow his strategy out, 5 laps more of fuel. He might not have won, but we'll never know, since Ron decided Alonso should win.

Those were the transgressions that one can condemn Lewis for.Alonso on the other hand was in a league of his own. So for a poster to spout bile about Hamiltons ethics while defending Alonso is indeed hilarious. And hypocritical...

At Monaco, Hamilton lashed out at the team and bitched to the media, and brought an official FIA investigation onto the team so, dont try to dress it up. At Hungary he broke team policy and ignored team orders which resulted in the team being sanctioned.

Now please detail how Alonso was in a league of his own in comparison?

Problem is the Ham fan is wrong on two of three counts and will never be happy with the real truth. Would this Ham fan be happier if Alonso had choked in 05 and 06 in place of winning B2B WDC's? Perhaps it is better to lose by ****ing up than win by being smart

But, again, that falls miles short of an answer to; "In a better car, on better tires and by cruising and collecting. On the other hand Alonso made more mistakes in Canada alone than Hamilton made in the whole season."

Alonso "crushed" Scumacher in 2005? I don't remember that Schumacher was in title contention that year - in fact, as I recall, he had a very poor car by Ferrari standards, and certainly not in anyway in the league of the Renault. As for 2006, how mnay points did he win by? "Crushed"? And by this token, hasn't Alonso "choked it" and been "crushed" in 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2007 (remember that he didn't win the 2007 title - he has "choked it" every bit as much as his (less experienced) former teammate. Raikkonen "crushed" him in 2007...

But where does his repsonsibility lie? You constantly blame Dennis and Hamilton for Alonso's problems, but yet, he also (surely?) is responsible for winning titles and races. Doesn't he (having a responsibility, as you accept) need then to accept some of the blame?

At Monaco, Hamilton lashed out at the team and bitched to the media, and brought an official FIA investigation onto the team so, dont try to dress it up. At Hungary he broke team policy and ignored team orders which resulted in the team being sanctioned.

Now please detail how Alonso was in a league of his own in comparison?

You better get some facts straight before typing.In Monaco Ron said he decided beforehand who would win there (Alonso) so of course Lewis was angry. He wasn't allowed to follow his startegy and he complained.

In Hungary he broke the team policy, that is correct. But the reason the team got sanctioned is Alonsos subsequent actions which were of his own making. He stayed those extra 10 seconds after the lollipop was up and that ruined Hamiltons lap. And the team tried to cover for Alonso, which lead to the actual sanctioning. So, in the end, it was Alonsos own actions that triggered the penalty, not Hamiltons disobedience.

Alonsos actions OTOH, have a wider range and variety. From blaming the team about not applauding to him, to play the nationality card (English team want an English driver to win) without providing any evidence whatsoever, to saying one thing to international media and something completely different to his minions in Marca, to him blatantly blocking his teammate in Hungary and thus spoiling his lap. Then we continue with him providing e-mails to FIA where it became clear that he and PdlR were engaged in cheating with Ferrari info. Which lead to McLaren being punished while Alonso got a carte blanche for his cheating. Seems a bit unfair to me.And the final straw is the still unconfirmed reports that he tried to blackmailed his boss with those e-mails.

That's why he is in a league of his own. And all that done in a single season, impressive work. Not even MS could manage to do that.

And this comment of yours from an earlier post sums up your actions here:

Originally posted by Durant

And Alonso black mailing is just speculation. No proof of that and never will be unless Alonso admitts it.

So in your mind, there is never, ever gonna be proof that Alonso tried to blackmailed his boss?What if Alonsos manager, who apparently was in the room, should confirm that story? Would you believe that?

Originally posted by Claudius You better get some facts straight before typing.In Monaco Ron said he decided beforehand who would win there (Alonso) so of course Lewis was angry. He wasn't allowed to follow his startegy and he complained.

He decided each driver would have a seperate strategy, not that Alonso would win. Hamilton could have won if he was fast enough but this all beside the point. None of this justifies bitching to the media. Hamilton should have said anything he wanted privately, not in pubic at a major press conference. He bitched to the media and said things much more serious than Alonso did all season. Yet you sweep it under the carpet.

Originally posted by Claudius In Hungary he broke the team policy, that is correct.

And ignored team orders. great team player isnt he. When did Alonso ever go against the team like that? Again much worse than Alonso ever did.

Originally posted by Claudius Alonsos actions OTOH, have a wider range and variety. From blaming the team about not applauding to him, to play the nationality card (English team want an English driver to win) without providing any evidence whatsoever, to saying one thing to international media and something completely different to his minions in Marca,

So these trivial rants to some obscure spanish radio station, are worse than Hamilton accusing the team of sabotage, and of number 2 status during an offical fia press conference and causing an FIA investigation at Monaco? Get real.

Originally posted by Claudius Then we continue with him providing e-mails to FIA where it became clear that he and PdlR were engaged in cheating with Ferrari info. Which lead to McLaren being punished while Alonso got a carte blanche for his cheating. Seems a bit unfair to me.That's why he is in a league of his own. And all that done in a single season, impressive work. Not even MS could manage to do that.

Its been made very clear that every team talks and finds out information about other teams. They all do and have for decades and thats all Alonso was doing. Havent you read reports by former drivers and team members? It was such an illegal and terrible act that Mclaren gave their No1 cheat dela rosa an extended contract and first drive of their new car

Originally posted by Claudius So in your mind, there is never, ever gonna be proof that Alonso tried to blackmailed his boss?What if Alonsos manager, who apparently was in the room, should confirm that story? Would you believe that?

Well how can something be proved without any proof? Alonso did the right thing and reported all his dealings to the FIA, yet its being twisted into blackmail. He did a good deed and should be commended for being honest and coming forward to help the FIA.

He decided each driver would have a seperate strategy, not that Alonso would win. Hamilton could have won if he was fast enough but this all beside the point. None of this justifies bitching to the media. Hamilton should have said anything he wanted privately, not in pubic at a major press conference. He bitched to the media and said things much more serious than Alonso did all season. Yet you sweep it under the carpet.

And ignored team orders. great team player isnt he. When did Alonso ever go against the team like that? Again much worse than Alonso ever did.

So these trivial rants to some obscure spanish radio station, are worse than Hamilton accusing the team of sabotage, and of number 2 status during an offical fia press conference and causing an FIA investigation at Monaco? Get real.

Its been made very clear that every team talks and finds out information about other teams. They all do and have for decades and thats all Alonso was doing. Havent you read reports by former drivers and team members? It was such an illegal and terrible act that Mclaren gave their No1 cheat dela rosa an extended contract and first drive of their new car

Well how can something be proved without any proof? Alonso did the right thing and reported all his dealings to the FIA, yet its being twisted into blackmail. He did a good deed and should be commended for being honest and coming forward to help the FIA.

First of all, I know I'm waisting my time in arguing with you. I know where you stand, and nothing I say will change anything. Nothing, never, ever... unless Alonso says so.

1) The strategy given to Alonso was the best one. And besides Hami wasn't allowed to follow his strategy. So he complained. At least he had a reason for it.Alonso went against his team in Hungary. He didn't drive when the lollipop went up. Thus he prevented Hami from doing his last attempt. Much worse than anything Hami did.

2) Alonso bitched and whined to the Spanish media about unfair treatment without ever providing any proof. It was Alonso that was complaining about not getting support despite being gifted the Monaco win. That was much worse than Hamilton questioning the teams decision in Monaco.

3) So Alonso cheating is now reduced to " Its been made very clear that every team talks and finds out information about other teams. They all do and have for decades and thats all Alonso was doing"? I'd like to know where "it's been clear" that drivers can ask specific questions about other cars and try and implement those solutions. Alonso was involved in cheating as those e-mails showed, and not everybody is doing the same.

Your last paragraph is hilarious if it weren't so tragic. And the worst part is that you believe that, it's not just a flame. Alonso did not report anything to FIA. He tried to blackmail his boss instead. It was Ron that informed Max.No point discussing this any further...

Originally posted by Durant So these trivial rants to some obscure spanish radio station, are worse than Hamilton accusing the team of sabotage, and of number 2 status during an offical fia press conference and causing an FIA investigation at Monaco? Get real.

Er, they were reported all over the world's media, they began even before Monaco, and they were designed to pressure McLaren into switching to a #1 policy (which is precisely what it did in Monaco). At least try for a bit of honesty.

How ironic that you accuse someones defence of Alonso as hilarious when you then go and defend Hamilton while attacking Alonso for the very same things. Heres news for you. Hamilton was the first driver to throw his toys out of the pram and attack the team in 2007, at Monaco. The first driver to whine to the media, the first to block his team mate. Gets those facts into your head before you post here again.

And Alonso black mailing is just speculation. No proof of that and never will be unless Alonso admitts it.

Funny RTX//////you know nothing as fact either, just speculation. Who threw the first temper tantrum? probably only Ron or Norbert really know. It could even have been Norbert or Ron! I do know that we'll never know the truth.

Ron did say that Alonso told him he would go to Max with the info didn't he (I could care less about looking it up really)? If so that would be "black mailing", but who really cares.

Originally posted by santori Apologies for linking to PlanetF1, but I thought this was worth quoting:

Alonso: "It seems that Flavio speaks every week, now Ron as well. It's not very important to me."

I saw for my eyes a big square in a Italian coast town. People is coming from all directions and gather up at the square. It is Saturday morning, 11 o'clock. Kids with footballs and knee-long shorts are hushed by their mothers while the fathers stretch their bodies and fix their eyes on the big balcony at the third floor of the big, pink, palace. At exactly 11:02, or sometimes 13:43, Flavio comes out. He is wearing a blue silk po-jama and look slightly annoyed over something at first and looks over his shoulder towards the room. A girl comes out with a cocktail tray and Flavios face turns to sunshine. Another girl comes out, this one is a brunette. She stands on Flavios left side. He turns to the people and speaks.

But, again, that falls miles short of an answer to; "In a better car, on better tires and by cruising and collecting. On the other hand Alonso made more mistakes in Canada alone than Hamilton made in the whole season."

Alonso "crushed" Scumacher in 2005? I don't remember that Schumacher was in title contention that year - in fact, as I recall, he had a very poor car by Ferrari standards, and certainly not in anyway in the league of the Renault. As for 2006, how mnay points did he win by? "Crushed"? And by this token, hasn't Alonso "choked it" and been "crushed" in 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2007 (remember that he didn't win the 2007 title - he has "choked it" every bit as much as his (less experienced) former teammate. Raikkonen "crushed" him in 2007...

Alonso beat scumacher in 2006 with a slower car, get over it. In the Ferrari it would have been a cakewalk for Alonso in 2006.

Originally posted by Claudius 1) The strategy given to Alonso was the best one. And besides Hami wasn't allowed to follow his strategy. So he complained. At least he had a reason for it.Alonso went against his team in Hungary. He didn't drive when the lollipop went up. Thus he prevented Hami from doing his last attempt. Much worse than anything Hami did.

Im not going to enter a big debate about the Monaco strategy but Hamiltons strategy covered the SC which had made regular appearances over the years. Again regardless this does not justify Hamilton bitching to the media.

Originally posted by Claudius 2) Alonso bitched and whined to the Spanish media about unfair treatment without ever providing any proof. It was Alonso that was complaining about not getting support despite being gifted the Monaco win. That was much worse than Hamilton questioning the teams decision in Monaco.

When did Alonso say he didnt get unfair treatment? Post a link. He said he wasnt happy and the team 'supported' hamilton more but thats open to interpretation. He certainly didnt use the harsh words that Hamilton did when he said he was the number 2 driver in the team. The biggest bitch of all.

Originally posted by Claudius 3) So Alonso cheating is now reduced to " Its been made very clear that every team talks and finds out information about other teams. They all do and have for decades and thats all Alonso was doing"?

My point is that its normal f1 behaviour and not cheating at all. Montoya said they always talked about weight distribution with other drivers among other things.

Originally posted by Claudius Your last paragraph is hilarious if it weren't so tragic. And the worst part is that you believe that, it's not just a flame. Alonso did not report anything to FIA. He tried to blackmail his boss instead. It was Ron that informed Max.No point discussing this any further...

You seem confused. The blackmailing part is just speculation and spin, no proof, but we do know for a fact that he reported the emails. He was totally open and he should be commended.

Originally posted by Lazarus II Funny RTX//////you know nothing as fact either, just speculation. Who threw the first temper tantrum? probably only Ron or Norbert really know. It could even have been Norbert or Ron! I do know that we'll never know the truth.

Oh we do know. It would be the first driver to bitch and cry in the media and say he was held back and was the team no2 driver. I cant recall such a bitchty whining in the media ever by an F1 driver. Rubens and Irvine never said anything like that publically, and its amazing how Hamilton fans ignore the enormity of Hamiltons words that day at Monaco. They dwarf anything Alonso ever said.