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4837 Swanholm- C 2850 Q Half a dozen or less fractional trips and three full length trips from Lockhart to Moab or Moab to Lockhart as the case may be. A I think only two from Lockhart up, but at least one from No. 2 to Moab, at least one from No. 1. camp to Moab. Q Would you call that trip from No. 1. to Moab a fractional trip? A No, that is quite a lengthy trip. Q Those are all of the trips that you recall ever having made on the large barge? A Yes sir. Q Now just a few questions about your method of operation there; I don't know that I understand it fully yet. You spoke of your camp at Indian creek-- not yours, but one of the party? A Yes sir. Q Speak out, so the reporter can get your answer. That camp was back from the rim of the canyon several miles, was it not? A I have never seen the camp personally, but I know it was back a number of miles. Q Now, when your party crossed the river to join one of