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Re: The Official Deobandi/Barelwi Thread

As Salamu Alaikum Maripat

Where as the Deobandi view is a bit vague,
I am hearing this for the first time so I'll assume that there is some thing missing here.
there are a few who take a very hard stance against sufis , I guess you can call them Deobandi .

Deobandis are sufis so again there might be some thing missing here.
Most mainstream scholars in my judgement don't go with any of them in
practice although people may classify them as either one.

Your right , I do not understand them much and not sure who they are.
They seem more dogmatic from the you tube videos but as I said I have
not come across face to face with someone openly saying they are one or
the other.

I heard from people ( who are not classically trained scholars ) that they
( deobandi ) or their Elders had disrespectful comments made on the prophet ( saws ) have not got the time and chance to verify that. Apparently
this is the barlevis main point against them.

On the other hand the term 'grave worshipers' are used against barlevis by
Deobandi's in their lectures on youtube and internet .

Important just because I am placing counter accusations do not mean I believe and put every one in each group under the above harsh statements.

I know I am working as the devils advocate here , that is just how my
mind works.

In my mind it casts a shadow of doubt against both groups hardliners.

I do get this feeling from some 'Mullah' s that they are acting more in a
peer pressure to try and make a point in their sermon that might not have been necessary or even relevant to the average Muslims need. This
observation is equally true of both groups. Be it in mosque or anywhere
else.

Here I get the feeling that innovators have tricked you. I'll just give you a test. Try to listen to a gatherings of these two groups. In one of them the will send Peace and Blessings (Darood wa Salaam) on beloved Prophet(PBUH) only when they are asked to do so from the mike. In the other gathering when the speaker just mentions the name of beloved Prophet(PBUH) people will mutter without any prompting. It is by habit. Now this is the aim of Islam that it becomes part of your life - your habit. Try it and may be this will settle the matter for you. May Allah(SWT) make it easy fro you.

Elaborate please . We say Darood wa salaam as a habit always .
And at my local mosque both scenarios are common.

You mentioned gatherings , this is what I meant as
reality in Dhaka Bangladesh. Here to my knowledge we do not have
hardcore schools of thought who have separate gatherings.

Be it such, you are right there are people influenced by them no doubt.

There is an authentic Tradition in which beloved Prophet(PBUH) said that periodically there will be a renewer of his Deen who'll revive Islam. It is clear that as the time passes some dust gathers on the teachings of Allah(SWT) and earlier Allah(SWT) used to send Prophet(AS) but after the last Prophet(PBUH) the task of renewing falls on our pious people. Islam entered India, in all probability, in Prophet(PBUH)'s life time itself. After that there has been a continuous series of pious people who submitted all their energy in preservation of the Religion of Allah. Deoband is the latest manifestation of the same phenomena. Our land witnessed one of the biggest empires of Muslims - Mughal Empire. Like some other Muslim Empires this too was ultimately dismantled by the European Colonialist powers. That is where the latest phase of Indian effort to revive Islam manifested itself - though we must assert that these efforts were never null and void, they were always there. So in 1857 British annihilated the Mughal Empire completely and Indian Muslims lost after giving a good fight - a fight whose story is still hidden in Urdu and Persian literature, it has not reached English audience. In 1864 the Deoband Madarsa was started. And the rest, as they say, is the history.

They seem more dogmatic from the you tube videos but as I said I have
not come across face to face with someone openly saying they are one or
the other.

It is unlikely that you'll get a good understanding of their view from videos because very few of them appear on videos.

I heard from people ( who are not classically trained scholars ) that they
( deobandi ) or their Elders had disrespectful comments made on the prophet ( saws ) have not got the time and chance to verify that.

We know these people. They have tried to blow casual remarks out of proportion and this behaviour really amounts to breach of trust (bad-dayanati - I do not know the Arabic word.) Any serious person will ignore this allegation. Any Muslim will not imagine attributing those things to beloved Prophet(PBUH) which these people accuse our Elders of. Matter was settled long back but these people always get new audience to confuse and do back biting of our Elders. They also use very indecent language and a lot of aggression.

I do get this feeling from some 'Mullah' s that they are acting more in a
peer pressure to try and make a point in their sermon that might not have been necessary or even relevant to the average Muslims need. This
observation is equally true of both groups.

The danger here is of forming a third group.

Elaborate please . We say Darood wa salaam as a habit always.

That is how it is supposed to be. And it is perfectly alright to ask people to indulge in sending of Salat wal Salaam but whether it is your habit or not can become apparent only when you mention Prophet(PBUH)'s name in my presence and after that whether I say voluntarily or not.

Re: The Official Deobandi/Barelwi Thread

I am afraid of them both. To make you understand my state of mind the following hadith is appropriate

I am not saying the state of the Ummah is as such mentioned below but state of my mind is.

narrated by al-Bukhaari -- it is reported from Abu Idrees al-Khawlaani that he heard Hudhayfah ibn al-Yamaan say: "The people used to ask the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about good things, but I used to ask him about bad things, fearing that I would live to see such things. I said, 'O Messenger of Allaah, we were in a state of ignorance (jaahiliyyah) and evil, then Allaah sent us this good (i.e., Islam). Will there be any evil after this good?' He said, 'Yes.' I said, 'Will there by any good after that evil?' He said, 'Yes, but it will be tainted.' I said, 'How will it be tainted?' He said, '(There will be) some people who will guide others in a way that is not according to my guidance. You will approve of some of their deeds and disapprove of others.' I said, 'Will there be any evil after that good?' He said, 'Yes, there will be people calling at the gates of Hell, and whoever responds to their call, they will throw them into it (the Fire).' I said, 'O Messenger of Allaah, describe them to us.' He said, 'They will be from among our people, speaking our language.' I said, 'What do you command me to do if I live to see such a thing?' He said, 'Adhere to the jamaa'ah (group, community) of the Muslims and their imaam (leader).' I asked, 'What if there is no jamaa'ah and no leader?' He said, 'Then keep away from all those groups, even if you have to bite (eat) the roots of a tree until death overtakes you whilst you are in that state.'"

Re: The Official Deobandi/Barelwi Thread

It is unlikely that you'll get a good understanding of their view from videos because very few of them appear on videos.

I want to understand both sides can you give some links ?

As for the berlevi view I find Dr Tahir Ul Quadri organized in his explanations . People assume him to be berlevi .
I don't know of course how he describes himself.

Allah knows best . I do not assume about any person .
I have no knowledge of my own soul.
Allah forgive me if I have indirectly mentioned anyone here disrespectfully .
Its only as a means to understand his deen better that I pose questions
and counter questions.

Re: The Official Deobandi/Barelwi Thread

Originally Posted by ja alhaq

i am a brelwi and i challenge you to a debate on live televison

i will show you how to biddah bash in front of the world

Dear Brother, Assalaamoalaikum

Knowledge is a favour from Allah(SWT). Never challenge anyone when it comes to knowledge. Has the Beloved Messenger (SAW) of Allah (SWT) not advised us to move away from a discussion even if one is right?