Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 3, 2017 11:26:33 GMT -6

In Update #15, back in July 1, 2015, we were presented to four familiars to choose one. The other three would be scrapped. That was a way to interact with players, and it was a nice touch. Back then, kickstarter was still going and no one knew how much money they would conquer in the end. Fastwoard now, and the game got 5.5 million and a ton of stratch goals. The game will have way more than four familiars, of course, but the other three from the 2015 poll was scrapped.

In a way, asking for all of them to be in the game would violate the whole purpose of doing that voting in the first place. Not only fans voted, but IGA would choose between the two most voted, and IGA decided to go with the most voted of all. But the game got way bigger than anyone would expect. It would really be THAT hard to bring all the four familiars back in the game? I don't think so.

The familiars were (with their temporary names and descriptions) :

ARMOR A familiar that is the torso of a living suit of armor. Its key word is "Cool". It ranked 1st in the Poll, and was the one Iga picked.

FAIRYA Fairy familiar with an oriental theme.It's key word is "Cute".It ranked 2nd in the Poll.

SKELETONA Familiar based off the Grim Reaper.It's key word is "Scary".It ranked 3rd in the Poll.

Post by purifyweirdsoul on Apr 3, 2017 11:48:23 GMT -6

My previous thoughts on this whole thing:

...I still think that Goofball could be a DLC familiar. Yeah, it lost in the poll and we don't want to devalue the winner and participation in that by including the others, but adding familiar options as additional paid content post-release would be a separate matter. The people that would care enough to have it would be definitely fine with supporting IGA/the game further.

Post by Goobsausage on Apr 3, 2017 12:01:10 GMT -6

I voted no because I want to respect the original poll, I remember hearing IGA wasn't interested in adding the other choices in the game, and I'd rather see artists like IGA do something because they actually want to do it or feel it would benefit their work and not because their fans wanted it.

As for the designs themselves... the armor was the only one I liked. Something about the fairy design looks off to me and I can't really describe what, the skeleton looks like a generic character design for Death, and while I appreciate how Goofball was adopted as the mascot for the boards, I can't look at him without thinking about Mike Wazoski from Monsters, Inc. if he were a flying blue pimp.

Post by crocodile on Apr 3, 2017 12:20:37 GMT -6

We haven't heard anything about familiars since the kickstater and we don't really know anything about how they will work in Bloodstained (though given what was said in the BCB #11, it is likely they will work more like the familiars in SOTN than of following Igavanias). An update on familiars and how they work would be appreciated but it might be a ways off? You'd have to ask Mana . Maybe we might hear something if there is another playable alpha or for the beta. Putting aside we can't actually "make" the dev team do anything (and the thread title is grammatically incorrect :P) I would rename the thread title with the title of the poll.

Now for the main question at hand - would I want the other 3 familiars in the game? To be honest that's a bit hard of a question to answer without knowing what familiars are already being worked on and what roles they will play. How many total familiars will be in the game is also unclear. Are there even better ones waiting in the wings? I don't really have a strong enough attachment to the ones that lost to strongly plead for their case and I expect there should be enough familiars in total that missing these 3 isn't going to be a big deal. The Faerie familiar came in second and a familiar that took on the function of the Faerie from SOTN would be good to have in the game. However, just because the Faerie from the 2015 poll lost doesn't mean some new familiar with its same function hasn't already been designed that will take its place.

TLDR: I don't have enough information to weigh the opportunity costs properly and I'm not strongly attached enough to the losing familiars to be a strong advocate for them. I will abstain until more information is provided. That being said, it is probably in the best interest of the game to have a familiar like the Faerie one even if it isn't exactly that specific familiar.

Post by Astaroth on Apr 3, 2017 12:33:15 GMT -6

as much as i think theyd be awesome, and that the poll could actually be honored still by making armor the earliest familiar you pick up (and therefore be the one people have the most exposure to), im curious what their other familiars will be in game before i say for certain whether theyd be best implemented as dlc, as easter eggs tucked into the game somewhere (like a goofball plushie in a pile of dolls), or as super ultra hard to unlock surprise! rewards in the other modes (similar to getting the stuffed bear and rpg in boss rush)

so im hoping they make it in somehow, but i do realize each familiar takes time and money to implement even if they all work off a code shell for familiars, and that may push even the possibility of them being in the game off until near the end of production and they dont run into any issues that require crunch time (or someone in the team liked it so much they work on it in their off time to get it implemented, which has happened before in games but i wont request due to it putting unnecessary stress and work on top of what can easily be a very stressful and time consuming job)

Satoru Iwata: "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer.” Game on Iwata-san

Post by Enkeria Gin on Apr 3, 2017 13:05:36 GMT -6

So Armor won that battle? Huh..

Well. If Armor won, and the others were scrapped, lets have them all in the game but Armor the one we need to battle against before we can obtain his trust. In that way, we voted on the most complex "familiar" at least.

I still wish to have them all viable in many ways possible, and that they are needed to actually finish the game easier. I wrote before that I wanted them to be in the game and have them all being equally used so we could progress, but since many like the game to be softer on the edges about how you can play and get through obsticles in your journeys, I would love for the familiars to at least make the path easier for your Miriam to pass through. I am talking about platform, locks, walls and doors that only could gotten through using a familiar, but since the castle is big, and there should be choices so everyone is happy, they could just make us have familiar usage as a way to EAZE up the game, leaving them out - making it more difficult, if interested.

I would enjoy more familiars, and perhaps even a mutation / leveling system on them, if not automated then perhaps with shards and such. I believe this has already been spoken of on this forum as well.

I also thought the "pet" tier, for backers, would create pet as familiars. I have been thinking this since day one.

Post by Pure Miriam on Apr 3, 2017 14:12:01 GMT -6

Personally, i like all four designs, but to be honest, the one i liked least was Armor (but no, that's not why i did this thread)

ARMOR: for me, Armor is just a generic weapon-wyelding soldier. I think he needs to exist because "we need one". But that's it.

FAIRY: I agree with crocodile on this. It would be great to have a Fairy like in Symphony of the Night, with more or less the same usage, and that's my main reason for wanting her. If the game will have other Fairy, i'm fine with it.

SKELETON: I remember a random comment in 2015, asking people to vote for Skeleton because that's the closest the game would probably have for a "Grim reaper" type enemy, since IGA want to make Bloodstained different from Castlevania. At the time, i thought that was a good enough argument to have it.

GOOFBALL: the joke, funny familiar. Again, if the game will have something like this, that's fine for me. Also, Goofball is a mascot already.

About the voting, yes, they could make Armor the first familiar you get, as Astaroth said.

About Enkeria Gin proposal of Familiars having progression usage, i personally love that idea, but to do that, they would need to not be locked into common enemies. Think about this. Let's say Aello, the harpy demon is a familiar. And she can float with you for a little bit, to make you go through some plataforms to progress in the game. Shards are random dropped. So, the player would need to figure it out that 1) It needs a familiar 2) It needs Aello 3) it needs to kill Aellos until one of them drops the shard.To make your idea work, familiars would need to be bound to bosses (that would give Shards with 100% chance of sucess, since they are a one-time fight, mostly) and/or would need to be without demons, floating around like Castlevania's relics or Aria of Sorrow Soul Holders.

Post by Galamoth on Apr 3, 2017 15:27:01 GMT -6

I'm completely fine with only having the one "Cool" Armor familiar in this game. In spite of that, I voted "Not them all" (but more than one).

Now, let's assume that they're all ending up in the game somehow, despite that defeating the purpose of the vote. Below is how I'd imagine the usefulness of the "Cool" Familiar to play out, making it just as viable as the others.

Spectral Armor ("Cool" Familiar)Attack: For its basic attacks, it wields a Spear in battle, which enables it to inflict physical Piercing-attribute damage on foes.Support: It will confer a passive bonus to Miriam's CON stat, and directly to her DEF (depending on the Familiar's level).Other: If Miriam equips a Spear weapon, this Familiar will gain a bonus to ATK, and will partially ignore the DEF of enemies. ...Thus incentivizing the use of Spears when playing as Miriam in certain parts of the game.

If anyone else can imagine similar bonuses for the other Familiars, go right ahead!

Post by Enkeria Gin on Apr 3, 2017 16:54:31 GMT -6

Familiars could be bound to weapons, elemental attacks you either give our or receive.

They could be bound to mini-games or just a way to level up in save rooms after x time usage or x % unveil of the castle.

They could be bound to amount of jumps, dashes, saves, attacks, blocks or usage of your shards, amount of damage or time redirected to the familiars.

They could perhaps scale some elemental attacks, or special moves if they are toggled ON while performing those abilities, double damage, half "ammo" usage etc.

They could've been leveled by special treats you found across the map, making it hard and difficult to know which one you want to level up.

The familiars could also be locked in level, but with useful features that make the game easier in general, having them as an option, perhaps like a handicap with less score and attached to the different endings when finished the game.

Post by Arcueid Brunestud on Apr 3, 2017 20:21:49 GMT -6

It depends on how they handle familiars. Will they have a personality and aid you with puzzles and stuff like in the Zelda games? If so then I can see why having only one familiar would make sense, since there would be potential for the player to bond with it. If it's strictly for gameplay then I don't see why they couldn't put them all in like in SOTN.

Post by Lestaroth on Apr 3, 2017 22:37:13 GMT -6

Hiya Pure Miriam and thanks for summoning me! It is always a delight to respond to your threads.

...So the Armor familiar is the one who won, indeed. I like the idea of a living armor coming from another dimension to launch a few stabs then going back home... I would have voted for that one as well.The fairy ultimately makes me think of the ones in CSOTN, probably with the same role, unless she distracts enemies or uses fairy dust to annoy them.The skeleton is a direct reference to Death, most probably additional hits/dark spells (including curse and evil souls).Goofball would be like CSOTN's imp, paralyzing the enemy so you could beat them easier.

It's a bit sad there was a poll in the first place after all, since that suggests the ones that lost will not fill that role (and that others are being created right now).

Like the others said, they still can exist in-game even if not as familiars.NPCs, icons, drawings/paintings, etc. could be their new form. I'd prefer for Miriam to be able to communicate with them... Maybe a village of familiars in a demon world (akin to FF IV)?It would be a waste of unique designs otherwise, don't you agree?

As for DLC... if the price is low, I would say why not. I'd prefer an absolutely full game from the start, though.

CASTLEVANIA: CURSE OF DARKNESS: 6 types of familiars (called I.D. Innocent Devils) : Fairy, Battle, Bird, Mage, Devil and Pumpkin. Each familiar having several different forms, with a total of 51 familiar forms.

Considering the past record, Castlevanias never had a lot of familiars. If Bloodstained follows the same path, AND if all four designs were added, there wouldn't be a lot of room for new familiars... BUT Bloodstained has a shard type specific for familiars. That makes me think the game will try to go further than what past Igavanias did.

The art on my signature was made by Enkeria, from forums.The art on my avatar was made by Kariya

Considering the past record, Castlevanias never had a lot of familiars. If Bloodstained follows the same path, AND if all four designs were added, there wouldn't be a lot of room for new familiars... BUT Bloodstained has a shard type specific for familiars. That makes me think the game will try to go further than what past Igavanias did.

Less familiar, More Miriam focus perhaps? Giving her more set of skills to make her the "ultimate killing machine" and not as "mortal" or "grounded" as a Belmont?

Post by on Apr 4, 2017 5:21:48 GMT -6

I'm just very lukewarm on the subject because familiars are a tricky concept, and barring a few exceptions, Igarashi didn't really implement them properly imo.

I feel like familiars should be fleshed out and have a special function that alters how you approach situations, like, for example, the fairy familiar in SOTN. Fleshing them out more story wise would be good too, as would making them be competent but not over the top allies.

As for the thread's question, no. It would be disrespecting the results of the original poll, and I feel wouldn't add much to the game. I'm all for them showing up in DLCs though, so long as they are done well.

CASTLEVANIA: CURSE OF DARKNESS: 6 types of familiars (called I.D. Innocent Devils) : Fairy, Battle, Bird, Mage, Devil and Pumpkin. Each familiar having several different forms, with a total of 51 familiar forms.

Considering the past record, Castlevanias never had a lot of familiars. If Bloodstained follows the same path, AND if all four designs were added, there wouldn't be a lot of room for new familiars... BUT Bloodstained has a shard type specific for familiars. That makes me think the game will try to go further than what past Igavanias did.

Yes, a small enough number of them will make them significant, you can deduce that the inverse is true (reminding me of the insanely big roster of characters in the Suikoden series but also Chrono Cross. This made some totally forgettable).

Who knows, a whole army of them would be fun, but I think devs got a lot to do with monsters, castle design and equipment. That said, it's just possible a big majority of them would be randomly "tamed" monsters.

CASTLEVANIA: CURSE OF DARKNESS: 6 types of familiars (called I.D. Innocent Devils) : Fairy, Battle, Bird, Mage, Devil and Pumpkin. Each familiar having several different forms, with a total of 51 familiar forms.

Considering the past record, Castlevanias never had a lot of familiars. If Bloodstained follows the same path, AND if all four designs were added, there wouldn't be a lot of room for new familiars... BUT Bloodstained has a shard type specific for familiars. That makes me think the game will try to go further than what past Igavanias did.

While my reply to this has nothing to do with Bloodstained, I've got a minor correction in mind.

You're forgetting CASTLEVANIA: ORDER OF ECCLESIA:7 Familiars: Zombie, Skull Spider, Winged Skeleton, Owl, Medusa Head, Polkir, and Jiangshi. (About as many familiars as the JP version of SotN)

Post by Mana on Apr 4, 2017 23:22:24 GMT -6

Familiars are not much talked about in office, except that there will be Familiars that will take on a 'role' like the ones above (similar concepts, but different designs). Although I've only seen one of the Familiars, they're already modelling them :). Also, the team is going to stick to the poll and not devalue the votes.

Post by anonthemouse on Apr 5, 2017 13:35:24 GMT -6

I kind of like the idea of fusing familiars. Armor would be the "base", but it could be changed into different forms by combining it with something else. The forms would be representative of Fairy, Death, and Goofball, but obviously still based on Armor in some way. It wouldn't be quite the same, but it would still allow then to exist in some form.

Post by ReySol on Apr 5, 2017 22:36:47 GMT -6

I agree they should respect the poll votes, otherwise it loses meaning. I voted for another familiar, though, not the Armor. I guess some kinf of Fairy will be in the game as well. Goofball would be a cool plush toy. Some kind of Death represantion would be more suited as a boss, like in Castlevania. It has always been a very meaningful and important character, so I hope we get it or something similar in Bloodstained. Death is so much more intimidating and memorable than most of the bosses. Most people fear death in real life and it has such a cool visual representation.

Post by Lestaroth on Apr 6, 2017 9:26:50 GMT -6

I'd picture you holding a goofball plushie and approaching it towards your cats, making weird noises and shaking it violently.*Evil laugh*That could really work.

Maybe we could get a voice line from Goofball in the future, so we actually know what it sounds like. Would it be a deep voice? Sharp and light voice? I wonder.. A plushie with sounds in it perhaps :O

Edit: How did you know my evil plan?

Edit two: Voice lines from all familiars and characters would be awesome when I think about it.

I guess that jester-like voices are overused, not to say stale. The crown could denote a creature with experience and wisdom, beyond appearances.And yes, I've always loved specific sound effects and voices for creatures of all sorts, be them common monsters, NPCs, protagonists, bosses and so on. It's going to be part of the fun in Bloodstained.

Your plan? It's because I'd do the very same. Could you see the passion and precision in my wording?

crocodile: Thanks for the well wishes everyone. Been busy with life (+ no updates) means I haven't been checking around here super often but do know I still love all you guys Aug 16, 2017 18:11:01 GMT -6