Azshara is a powerful character, but no one really knows how powerful. Is she as strong and skilled as the strongest Highborne, or is she infused with the powers of the Old Gods, which might mean she's as strong as Yogg'Saron and C'thun when not at their full powers?

She was the most powerful mage on Azeroth...

Mannoroth discovered, to his chagrin, that Azshara was far more powerful than he, and that only Archimonde, Kil'Jaeden and Sargeras could've matched her.

Can I get a source on the whole "Old God > Titan" issue. As far as I know, C'thun killed a lesser Titan in combat but was mortally injured himself (I need to check up my sources as well). If that is indeed true, the power scale would look like: Lesser Titan<Old Gods< Parthenon Titans<Sargeras

"For I bear allegiance to powers untouched by time, unmoved by fate. No force on this world or beyond harbors the strength to bend our knee. Not even the mighty Legion."
—Harbinger Skyriss

Also:

Krasus speculated that should the Old Gods open the gates of their prison even Sargeras would find himself pleading for the peace of death. Krasus further thought that the Aspects were the most powerful creatures on all the mortal plane. So if anyone had a chance against the Old Gods, it was them. Combined all five of the Aspects represented a force capable of defeating the elder beings.

That's from the Sundering.

Also:

"They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle."
—Herald Volazj

Also, they used Azshara and Deathwing to bring the Legion to Azeroth so they could be released. I believe they could deal with the Legion if they did so.

I don't believe they are - alone - more powerful than the titans or the Legion. But together they are a mighty force to be reckoned, also C'thun didn't "die" fighting the Titan, he went into hiding in Silithus.

English is not my first language, feel free to point out any mistake so i can keep learning.Flickr

That has definitely not been made clear, it's clearly the other way around if anything..

Not really, we don't have anything to indicate just how powerful each individual Titan is compared to a single Old God, because the Titans ganaged up on the Old Gods to take them down. Its not beyond Blizzard to have the evil side being more powerful, it was definately that way in Diablo, but they always lost because they would begin fighting among themselves. The Old Gods could be the very same way. We never really see any indication that the Old Gods are working together, the only thing that really ties them together is that the all want Azeroth to be a world of evil and chaos.

"For I bear allegiance to powers untouched by time, unmoved by fate. No force on this world or beyond harbors the strength to bend our knee. Not even the mighty Legion."
—Harbinger Skyriss

Also:

Krasus speculated that should the Old Gods open the gates of their prison even Sargeras would find himself pleading for the peace of death. Krasus further thought that the Aspects were the most powerful creatures on all the mortal plane. So if anyone had a chance against the Old Gods, it was them. Combined all five of the Aspects represented a force capable of defeating the elder beings.

That's from the Sundering.

Also:

"They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle."
—Herald Volazj

Also, they used Azshara and Deathwing to bring the Legion to Azeroth so they could be released. I believe they could deal with the Legion if they did so.

I don't believe they are - alone - more powerful than the titans or the Legion. But together they are a mighty force to be reckoned, also C'thun didn't "die" fighting the Titan, he went into hiding in Silithus.

That isn't official, that is just speculation still. If that were true they wouldn't have lost the war with ease. You are obviously entitled to your opinion but that isn't official information.

Originally Posted by dokhidamo

Can you find me where they said Sargeras is back.

Last I had heard was the lore team saying Kil'jaedan has pretty much taken full control of the legion since Sargeras is still missing.

Yeah, he has apparently. He states "I will do what Sargeras could not and secure my place as the true leader of the Legion" or something similar in Sunwell which backs that point.

But Sargeras isn't dead, it doesn't make sense but also this "In an interview to Chris Metzen and Micky Neilson they said that "he's out there somewhere", that "you can’t put him down" and "he’s not going to stay down for long". At last Metzen said: I'd be very disappointed in us if we didn’t leverage him fully".

When the Well of Eternity existed. Keep in mind that almost all the old mages on Azeroth were so because they had learned to tap into and rely on the Well to boost them. She was no different so its actually possible that she's not as powerful as when it existed. TBH Medivh could be argued just as easy, as he was filled with the power of both the Guardians of Tirsfall and Sargeras. ( Its the reason he conked out for those years, his body couldn't handle the power load at the time)

Not really, we don't have anything to indicate just how powerful each individual Titan is compared to a single Old God, because the Titans ganaged up on the Old Gods to take them down. Its not beyond Blizzard to have the evil side being more powerful, it was definately that way in Diablo, but they always lost because they would begin fighting among themselves. The Old Gods could be the very same way. We never really see any indication that the Old Gods are working together, the only thing that really ties them together is that the all want Azeroth to be a world of evil and chaos.

Exactly, we don't have concrete power levels but from what we do have it supports the Titans imo. They didn't just stop them in the war, they won without taking any major casualties and let's not forget they didn't go there and simply kill them they chained them into prisons which is a lot harder than just killing them. I think that shows the Titan's dominance and that the Old Gods can't match them.

That being said it's a different story if every planet has Old Gods infested in them, the Titans can fend off and defeat 5 but how would they cope with 100 or so? that is a different scenario. But yeah I agree, there is no indication the Old Gods are working together, but I'd say it makes sense since they haven't fought each other before.

It doesn't matter if it's from Knaak. If it is or isn't it's still canon.

While Knaak's books are...cannon, he doesn't have the best handle on the lore. In fact, he doesn't really have a handle on it at all. They should really have someone over his shoulder to keep him from fucking up.

Of course, regardless of how powerful she is, that doesn't mean she deserves her own expansion.

Actually unless the lore has been altered over the last year each of the old gods could very well be more powerful than sargaras, All we really know about them is that it took all of the other titans ganging up on each individual old god to imprison them.

Also I don't recall lore ever stating that sargaras was the most powerful being in the universe, it just said that he was the strongest of the titans before becoming currupted, I don't even remember the lore actually stating if his powers grew or diminished when he joined the dark side.

We do know however that when he left the pantheon that his sword "the most powerful weapon in the universe" shattered itself into two pieces.

Combined they are stronger no doubt but not one on one.

Originally Posted by TJ

How did you come to that conclusion? she just grew in power magically? Sure she is damn powerful and even more powerful since being "Old Goded" but she is not as powerful as Kil'Jaeden (ofcourse this is all speculation), he is the most powerful demon in the universe (excluding Sargeras since he's on holiday) and enslaved the Dreadlords with ease which is a huge feat in itself. I would go as far to say he's about as powerful as an Old God or maybe a tiny bit off, Azshara is not close.

She was nearly as strong as Kiljeaeden and Archimonde back in the WoA, she removed Neptulon and now controls the seas of Azeroth. Not to mention the old Gods empowered her.

Last edited by Combatbulter; 2012-10-07 at 08:30 PM.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

No, because they are physically dependent on the world. They are an interplanetary parasites.

Ultimately they kill their host as seen in the hour of Twilight, but before they do that they wage war against each other for whatever reason, could be like chess for them.

Countless ages ago, Warlord Zon'ozz and his soldiers waged endless war against the forces of C'Thun and Yogg-Saron. Millennia have passed, but the warlord still serves the chaotic might of the Old God N'Zoth.http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3516572

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

Ultimately they kill their host as seen in the hour of Twilight, but before they do that they wage war against each other for whatever reason, could be like chess for them.

Countless ages ago, Warlord Zon'ozz and his soldiers waged endless war against the forces of C'Thun and Yogg-Saron. Millennia have passed, but the warlord still serves the chaotic might of the Old God N'Zoth.http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3516572

I understand this, but I fail to see its relevance or how it shows their power.

I understand this, but I fail to see its relevance or how it shows their power.

Old gods corrupt everything around them and enhance it with their "flesh crafting", pitting these creations against their enemies. They can't be really killed as seen with Y'Shaarj and C'thun. We know that at least one Titan died and the old gods themselves said many Titans were necessary to seal them,you shouldn't forget the entire Titan high council was on Azeroth. The Old gods themselves were confident they could beat Sargeras. Meaning combined the old gods should be able to kill Sargeras.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

Whats interesting I think is that the Old Gods work in Corruption and madness and we've already seen that Sargeras can and has been corrupted in the past. Perhaps it not out of the question for the Old Gods to infect him and bend his way of thinking to their own since it isn't that different to begin with.

"I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse."
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” - Issac Asimov

Old gods corrupt everything around them and enhance it with their "flesh crafting", pitting these creations against their enemies. They can't be really killed as seen with Y'Shaarj and C'thun. We know that at least one Titan died and the old gods themselves said many Titans were necessary to seal them,you shouldn't forget the entire Titan high council was on Azeroth. The Old gods themselves were confident they could beat Sargeras. Meaning combined the old gods should be able to kill Sargeras.

Again, I fail to see how the Old Gods' corruption of other races is to be seen as anything over the Legion.

The Old Gods can, in fact, be killed - hell, Y'Shaarj was confirmed to be 'extremely dead'.

I have seen nothing to indicate how many Titans were on Azeroth at the time of the ordering, nor how many - if any - members of the Pantheon were there. It's stated that they waged war on them, yes, but that doesn't really say anything.

As for the Old Gods themselves being confident in their ability to defeat Sargeras, I don't see why that matters. The vast majority of villains are overconfident - hell, it's often the reason they're killed.

I'd like to think that she planned to help Deathwing (she did distract malfurion at one point)
But with Neptulon in her prison, I think she got a new ace...one that needed more preparation. So she was busy orchestrating her grand plan instead of helping Deathwing.

But didn't Metzen say that Turalyon and Alleria will be in the next expac (source: http://www.blizzplanet.com/blog/comm...eria-next-xpac)
Assuming they will deal with the Legion.....I am wondering when Azshara will make her reveal?
PErhaps they will not start off fighting the legion....get introduced against Azshara and we get to know them personally, then in the expac after that they lead the charge against the legion?

Signature infractions suck especially when they are just about the size of TEXT! WTB token limit!

Whats interesting I think is that the Old Gods work in Corruption and madness and we've already seen that Sargeras can and has been corrupted in the past. Perhaps it not out of the question for the Old Gods to infect him and bend his way of thinking to their own since it isn't that different to begin with.

Sargeras was not corrupted in the same sense. He was driven mad by all the evil he witnessed from the vile demon armies he battled.

It is possible they could corrupt him, but I see it as extremely unlikely - and more than a little asinine. Sargeras is a powerful corrupter in his own right.