Angyson write: Many of you ladies are not aware of the backlash created by feminists to your relationships. It started with equal pay for equal work, which I support. But why hire a guy when a gorgeous woman has the same qualifications? Suddenly, this is inappropriate behavior or politically incorrect.Inappropriate according to whose standards? Politically incorrect according to which political party?

There is a difference between misogynism and feminism they may fall on the same side of the coin ..but yet one is longer in history than the other.To be politically correct is not to fall foul of any of these two sides these days.

Years ago when I was a young lawyer , I know it was tough to appear serious to my clients because my youth and looks meant that I could get through the doors of powerful men but they had a rather different agenda on their mind...but i sure was good at using it to my advantage..whether politically correct or otherwise ..increasingly these days youth, good looks , male or female have a premium and smart move by companies who take advantage of it. Of course it is politically disadvantageous or incorrect to the plain looking average man.
I have also discovered having lived for years in Japan, that femininity is a far more powerful force to reckon with than feminism.

blueeyesonlakelanier write: Omg, Rob, you had me dieing in hysterics over that one. Where did we find you? We can and do change the rules. And conforming? Lol, well not a women trait really. Although thank you for the definition of everything, the words all started to blend together. Oh yeah and by the way, I liked your idea on the previous thread, about starting a singles dance in Atlanta. It would be interesting to say the least. How was the one you attended?

Interesting concepts you have there BlueEyes... And let me guess, to further confuse them, you tell them that they are bad communicators? LOL... I guess this old martian will never be able to translate venusian! Maybe you could write a book to cover what Dr. John Gray forgot to tell us. :o)

Dance was okay. Much less of a meat market than a regular dance club/bar. The skill level was much higher on the dancing as was the average age. I was probably young compared to many of the men there. It is kind of an older crowd, probably 40 to mid 50s average. Probably 150+ people there.

Your odd rules would fit right inline there at the dance though Kandis. They have certain dances that are ladies' choice, and certain dances that are men's choice, and then a few "rebels" running around just asking whomever and when ever! LOL I think Tasha mentioned that she was moving to ATL... Maybe after she gets here, we could pick a good Friday and all go there and see if any of the dance experts there could tell us when it is most appropriate "to tango" !!! :o)

While being a rebel (To refuse allegiance to and oppose authority) may in fact be the opposite of fascism (Oppressive, dictatorial control), it is a bit scary...

Certainly everyone enjoys a bit of diversity in relationships,but IMHO a long term relationship must be based in understanding of some general rules of confomity in order to maintain a sense of security. I don't think people actually worry about milk (maybe the fat content) or parcheesi (a game with some preset rules for orderly movement about the board), but rather they enjoy them and the comfort they provide. A sense of accomplishment comes from a game well played.

My personal preference is for backgammon, which has many variations, and if agree upon by the participants, the rules may be changed to accomidate the desires of the parties involved. Typically though, changing the rules with no communication before hand would be considered cheating.

If there is no sense of comfort and security in a relationship, sometimes it is better to simply be alone rather than feeling lonely in a partnership. Or atleast that is my opinion. :o)

"The male sex drive turns women into hot commodities. Literally. We have it, you want it. Unfortunately commodities are, by their very definition, consumable and ultimately disposable/replaceable. And no one, male OR female, likes being treated as one."

What about the female sex drive? Why not use us up and spit us out? You can't play the victim and ask for equality.

I would submit that many men would have little difficulty, after the initial ego hit, of being disposable. If we were in a a James Bond world, where both sexes had unlimited accesss to desirable but temporary partners, men would not complain, and the supposedly valuable commoddity of withheld sex would become valuless. Women would increase in power.

Of course, women would have to stop worrying about their reputation, but that's just one of those constructs that women just don't have to accept. Again, there's no third party here. Just men and women. Men will want you, even if you dispose of men at the drop of a hat, and women are just your competitors, so their opinion doesn't matter.

Do you think 007 cares what 008 thinks of his reputation?

LOL . . . you should check the "love, money or sex?" thread in the Millionaires Who Are On Line section of the forums to find out what I REALLY think about this!!!!!!!!

In my world though, human beings, whatever their gender, are not to be treated as vending machine snacks. Company policy!

So, instead we can interpret that you are suggesting there are no difficult & challenging women on MM. You think we women on MM are like a Buick & warm milk, who prefer quiet evenings playing mundane games like Parchesi. We women like confident, compassionate, intelligent, articulate men... not gorillas aggressively strutting their stuff and laying claim to ownership of females! :-)

OMG- A buick and warm milk?? What's that? great for long drives and relaxing right before bedtime. He he he

Seriously Sharpe wouldn't you agree that it's ok to strut a little because that's all a part or your "Swagger"? You know, the way a man with confidence carrys himself. Aren't women drawn to confidence in a man?

I'm inclined to agree with Rob, "men are simply collectors and providers. Biologically, men cannot spawn the next generation to provide for the continuation of the species. Perhaps because of their larger size and internal insecurities, men have evolved society in this way...

That is not to say all men are this way. Many cherish the opposite gender, and seek intelligent, strong willed partners with whom to pursue their lifelong goals."

Lombard write: All of those other traits i.e. what a man does or how he lives, are only in addition to his maleness. The maleness part is taken for granted.

Actually, it's his HUMANITY that's taken for granted. Male = Human (female? not so much!).

When it comes to sex, it is a binary world. 50% of the world (90% of women and 10% of men) are evaluating men for their suitability as a sexual partner/provider/protector/victim. That leaves the other 50%. Here is the deep dark dirty gender secret. Everything we do, if we are heterosexual, is all about women. Very few life- long bachelors would build up more assets than they need, adorn themselves with designer clothes, plan for the future, stake out territory, fight, dance or go to chick flicks if it wasn't to have more access to the opposite sex.

The male sex drive turns women into hot commodities. Literally. We have it, you want it. Unfortunately commodities are, by their very definition, consumable and ultimately disposable/replaceable. And no one, male OR female, likes being treated as one.

So how to proceed to honor the humanity in each woman you meet? Remind yourselves CONSTANTLY that she is not flesh or energy for you to "consume," but rather is a human being with desires, needs and priorities that probably have NOTHING to do with yours. Her life is her own. Her energy is hers to do with as she pleases. Her destiny may very well be separate from yours. And that this is not only to be expected, but honored and appreciated.

And once you get hip to this, interalize it, and consistently act on it, you may call yourselves feminists. Your membership cards will be issued in the mail!

Lombard write: Goodlife asks "Are you suggesting that, if we were stripped of our sexual organs, we would cease being human"

I am interested in how you interpreted that from my statement. In fact my statements says the opposite. We become a different human being if we are stripped of our sex organs, which proves what a determant they are and contrevenes Dworken's hypothesis.

I can think of three possible organ removal scenarios.

First, the organs ould be removed in a surgical way at the best hospital. The patient would live. After coming off anestesia, and with a few weeks of brutal pain, like a neutered Tom, the human critter might become less agressive, would stop trolling this site for difficult and challenging women and settle down to nights of warm milk and Parchesi. Who needs a Porche when the Buick gets you from A to B.

The second scenario is the unknown removal, after birth, of sex ogans, possibly by Taliban agents dressed as Karl Rove, or maybe Thetans. You don't have the life alterring pain trauma, but you stopped caring about March Madness or hair products and the bed looks inviting by 8:30.

In both of these cases you are still a human being, just a mutilated human being who is wholly different from the one had the sex organs and the associated hormones.

Then there is the final case. God decides, before birth, to not put any sex organs in us. Ooops, were not here.

Hahaha! Lombard enjoyed your posts, and this last one to clarify to Goodlife...not sure how she drew that conclusion either, unless to ask it for the sake of humour.

So, instead we can interpret that you are suggesting there are no difficult & challenging women on MM. You think we women on MM are like a Buick & warm milk, who prefer quiet evenings playing mundane games like Parchesi. You have a fear of never finding that difficult/challenging female, and the only way for yourself and other men to be able to accept this is to have yourselves neutered!
Sounds like a plan!
We women like confident, compassionate, intelligent, articulate men...not gorillas aggressively strutting their stuff and laying claim to ownership of females! :-)

blueeyesonlakelanier write: Rob, hey cutie smiling at you. Collectors and providers? Hm, that is debateable. How was the dance? inquiring minds want to know.

Kandis

Certainly it would be debatable, and probably negotiable too for that matter in our modern society. But being that Homo Sapiens have been around 60k-300k years or so(depending on whose theory you believe), do the last 2-3000 years really count as far as overall trends? LOL

I guess it mainly boils down to the individuals involved. Certainly today, many woman can collect/provide for themselves, and many wish to do so. There is but one thing that they can't provide though. :o) Well, not with current technology anywho, not that other species can't.

Dance was fun. I really need some lessons though. I didn't do any collecting but did provide a few drinks for some ladies there. :o) I think next week, they are actually giving some intro lessons, and I have been researching some dance lessons at a dance studio. Those people there are dang good, and I feel like an awkward duck in the mist of swans...

My grandmothers were both business women, who owned retail clothing stores. They supported not only their husbands, but their family and friends too. They invested wisely, and died with enough to set up their children and grandchildren, both of my grandfathers did the cooking, and worked manual labor jobs, for minimum pay. This was long before women's lib came into play, and there was never any power play between my grandparents.

My mother was a self made, multi- millionaire, before women's lib came into play also.

As far back as i know of, the women in my family were very powerful, and supported the men. They also admired and built up their men, who worked very hard, but were not big bread winners.

They were the epitomy of love and respect, I hope to follow in their footsteps. Although i am not the business woman my grandmothers were, I have a ton of compassion for men, and have also supported the ones in my life.

On the other hand, men are simply collectors and providers. Biologically, men cannot spawn the next generation to provide for the continuation of the species. Perhaps because of their larger size and internal insecurities, men have evolved society in this way...

That is not to say all men are this way. Many cherish the opposite gender, and seek intelligent, strong willed partners with whom to pursue their lifelong goals.

Today, many women have chosen to stop worrying about power relationships. There realized what was apparent all the time. Power is not granted. Power is taken. My workplace and life have been full of interesting, powerful women who have just decided to use all the tools they have to be who they want to be. Power comes when you stop asking how to get it and just seize it.

Lombard and Goodlife,
You both state valid points about male/female status and relationship that link/interact and conteract.

If we observe the behavioral patterns of the two gender in animal species, it might give us a better insight as to ourselves too.
Most male species are just sperm donors , their function is to propagate and reproduce then move on to do the same leaving the nesting and nurturing to the female species.

Humans as a species might have progressed but not that far. The conflict lies in the fact that the two gender are now fighting for the same power base. Lombard is right in that left to a fair playing field, POWER is not gender related but more personality related. So the more ambitious of us, whether male/female would want to vie for power as the tool to fame, fortune and perceived 'happiness'.

I could only state here from my own observation , coming from a country that gave complete equality (without any obvert battle between the sexes) that lots of women would not choose to climb the career ladder and capture the ultimate corporate power base but prefer to run their homes as their base and wield their power from a more meaningful front , their nest..the female nestling instinct is the forgotten power base with lots of women.

If we view the home(internal base) and corporate world as the external power base, then men and women today should be given that choice to decide where and how each could devote their lives to nurturing , influencing and ultimately creating more meaningful lives not just for themselves but their offsprings and their own community. REspecting that choice is a key to peaceful , harmonious existence for the benefit of all.

This is no different from extending the philosophical concept of the age old 'ying/yang' Chinese way of a balanced life. Upsetting this balance lead only to a chaotic frontier.