I agree completely on his prefessionalism, I admire him for that. As for your comment about if he was a decent backup nobody would comment on him, most think he starts and should be a backup and would be a backup on 20 teams in the NBA. Therefor when he is starting those people will talk. So those comments come from the debate of whether he should be a starter or a backup. Guys like that always garner discussion and are at time polorizing.

I'm going to say otherwise and that he should start on 20 teams and be a backup for the other 10. The guy's been playing with projects and scrubs for many years now, and would definitely thrive even more if the team had more talent at his disposal.

I'm going to say otherwise and that he should start on 20 teams and be a backup for the other 10. The guy's been playing with projects and scrubs for many years now, and would definitely thrive even more if the team had more talent at his disposal.

just an opinion, he's a top 15 pg given talent.

If he's a top 15 PG how could be a starter on 20 teams?

Calderon is 15-20 range (closer to 20 imo) as far as i'm concerned when it comes to starting PG's in the NBA.

If you say he could start on 20 teams you're saying he's a top 10 PG which i don't think he's even close to that caliber.

Of course some would. There's always some who see players differently. IMO Lowry is better for this team than Calderon based on defense and style of play alone. He pushes the ball and creates offense by helping making stops in his own end. Jose slows shit down and can't defend for shit. The fact that he gets you 8apg is all fine and good but a lot of that is based on the fact that he isn't a scorer and he holds onto the ball far too much, for far too long. It's all a matter of opinion and preference.

A tougher, much better defender, better scorer for half the price....where do i sign?

Of course some would. There's always some who see players differently. IMO Lowry is better for this team than Calderon based on defense and style of play alone. He pushes the ball and creates offense by helping making stops in his own end. Jose slows shit down and can't defend for shit. The fact that he gets you 8apg is all fine and good but a lot of that is based on the fact that he isn't a scorer and he holds onto the ball far too much, for far too long. It's all a matter of opinion and preference.

A tougher, much better defender, better scorer for half the price....where do i sign?

colangelo already did the signing, theres no need for jeff from Raptors forum to give a thumbs up.

if jose holds onto the ball for far too long, it should mean it'd be a last second opportunity when he does passes, and thus a tough shot, and thus a lesser chance of scoring. if he's getting near 9 assists frequently, it's from finding players in good positions, bringing the offence to them. jose and nash have very similar styles in making players better. nash of course is the superior player, but in terms of what they do, they are similar. amir johnson had no offence whatso ever to his name before coming to this team, jose (and slightly alex mchicknie) made him worth his 6 million contract right now.

colangelo already did the signing, theres no need for jeff from Raptors forum to give a thumbs up.

if jose holds onto the ball for far too long, it should mean it'd be a last second opportunity when he does passes, and thus a tough shot, and thus a lesser chance of scoring. if he's getting near 9 assists frequently, it's from finding players in good positions, bringing the offence to them. jose and nash have very similar styles in making players better. nash of course is the superior player, but in terms of what they do, they are similar. amir johnson had no offence whatso ever to his name before coming to this team, jose (and slightly alex mchicknie) made him worth his 6 million contract right now.

Great he's been good for Amir some, but i also believe that Amir has worked hard and actually has a jumpshot now which has nothing to do with Jose. In the mean time Bargnani has been up and down his whole career with Jose, Derozan has been frustrating and we've floundered as a franchise with Jose as our starting PG. Look i really don't feel like debating Calderon yet again. Either you like him as a PG or you don't and i don't for the most part. Is Lowry going going to be a lot better, who the hell knows. With my luck he'll come here and stink or get injured and the Calderon fanboys will say it's another reason why Jose should retire here and we'll stuck watching him dribble 20 seconds on every shot clock for the next 8yrs. This team is stuck in mud and Jose is part of the problem. JMHO And he's still inuury prone.

You know what Jeff, for a guy your age, you sure are a bit immature and petty. You can make a point without degrading the people that like the way Calderon plays. Calling any of us "fanboys" because we like the guy is brutal, a if you have some superior knowledge here, which, come on, we all know you don't having read your posts for a few years now. Lighten up Bud, reducing mine, or anyone else's opinions here to childish fanaticism is ridiculous dude, I don't see anyone here calling you any names.

Its not great, but to put it in perspective the leader in assist per game in Olympics is Prigioni with 6.5 in 28 mins per game. So you shouldnt compare to any NBA stats as everyone is playing a lot less minutes and they dont give you assisnt in international ball unless you give it to guy who instantly scores.

Also Spain is only scoring 80 points per game. So I would say their whole offense is struggling.

But to be honest I think Jose along with whole Spanish team is playing much worse than I anticipated.

And relating to the other discussion here, I fully agree with Superjudge. The Jose hate is really ridiculous on this board. I can understand people thinking Lowry is better option, but does that mean that guys have to hate on Jose so much. I am not too familiar with Lowry, so I cannot comment on him, but I think Jose is still one of the best players we have. He is not superstar, but is a capable guy and could play starter in many teams. But in a good team there would be better players around him as he isnt top player in good team calibre.

You know what Jeff, for a guy your age, you sure are a bit immature and petty. You can make a point without degrading the people that like the way Calderon plays. Calling any of us "fanboys" because we like the guy is brutal, a if you have some superior knowledge here, which, come on, we all know you don't having read your posts for a few years now. Lighten up Bud, reducing mine, or anyone else's opinions here to childish fanaticism is ridiculous dude, I don't see anyone here calling you any names.

You know what Jeff, for a guy your age, you sure are a bit immature and petty. You can make a point without degrading the people that like the way Calderon plays. Calling any of us "fanboys" because we like the guy is brutal, a if you have some superior knowledge here, which, come on, we all know you don't having read your posts for a few years now. Lighten up Bud, reducing mine, or anyone else's opinions here to childish fanaticism is ridiculous dude, I don't see anyone here calling you any names.

I'm not sure I have even responded to a post of yours, let alone directed anything towards you, certainly not an insult like that.

Thanks though, whoever you are. In the future just deal with the thread at hand ok, try to follow along, I know its hard to go back and read a few posts, but I'm sure if you give even a 5% effort you will be ok.

I'm not sure I have even responded to a post of yours, let alone directed anything towards you, certainly not an insult like that.

Thanks though, whoever you are. In the future just deal with the thread at hand ok, try to follow along, I know its hard to go back and read a few posts, but I'm sure if you give even a 5% effort you will be ok.

Calderon is 15-20 range (closer to 20 imo) as far as i'm concerned when it comes to starting PG's in the NBA.

If you say he could start on 20 teams you're saying he's a top 10 PG which i don't think he's even close to that caliber.

It also depends on fit. You could argue a scoring pg on a team with more talent could be better than Jose individually, but Jose would be the better fit as a playmaker. I think he's around 10-15, and we haven't even seen him with the necessary talent to win.

edit: yeah it's all opinionated. I love Lowry as much as anyone here but point is we have both and it's a virtue, not a curse. no need to bring the other one down.

It also depends on fit. You could argue a scoring pg on a team with more talent could be better than Jose individually, but Jose would be the better fit as a playmaker. I think he's around 10-15, and we haven't even seen him with the necessary talent to win.

edit: yeah it's all opinionated. I love Lowry as much as anyone here but point is we have both and it's a virtue, not a curse. no need to bring the other one down.

He was rated 2yrs ago as the 20th best starting PG in the NBA 1 spot ahead of Jarrett Jack. I highly doubt he's moved up anywhere near 10 spots. He's middle of the pack at best. As for having both and it being a virtue, not likely. We've been here, done that and Jose is already upset about it and would like to be traded. We've heard 3 times now that it's a blessing to have two starting caliber PG's and it's been a mess everytime. The first two times Ford & Jack while different PG's from Jose were essentially on par with Jose and it went back and fourth as to who would start, it was a mess. Lowry coming in should be the starter, now how many minutes will Jose get? Will he play some SG on the floor with Lowry, i don't see how since Derozan plays 30-33mpg and you have Ross probably getting most of the other minutes at the 2. Jose knows he doesn't fit in the long term plans here, they've already tried to trade him once and are trying again at his request. I'm telling you this whole thing will be a distraction the first couple months with the media making matters worse. What question do you expect to be asked ad nauseum during training camp, pre-season and when the season starts? I'll give you one guess. The one saving grace is that Valanciunas will also be getting some attention.