I hear some bastard in North Korea has one too, but it might just be a
firecracker
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Aaron Welch <n2nightfall at gmail.com> wrote:
> Touché. Prolly another one in Russia.
>> -AW
>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 2:33 PM, Eric Wolf <ebwolf at gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Human behavior cannot immediately effect a total collapse of the climate."
>> I believe there's a dude in Washington D.C. with a button that, when
> pressed, would essentially cause an immediate, total collapse of the
> climate.
>> -Eric
>> -=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-
> Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Aaron Welch <n2nightfall at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> Apples and oranges Stephen. There is no psychological element to climate
>> change. Human behavior cannot immediately effect a total collapse of the
>> climate. The climate system functions without our input and the economy is
>> driven by our choices and values.
>>>> -AW
>>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> Lets put it this way:
>>>> When the Glass Steagall Act was struck down, it was already estimated by
>> many economists that it would lead to a financial crisis in the future, and
>> while it took some time for it to happen and they couldn't estimated
>> EXACTLY what would happen.
>>>> Same thing could be said of Climate Change: Science has been proclaiming
>> it would happen for years, with much booing and anger from the public at
>> large, but now we are starting to see the effects and the models are
>> beginning to line up, doesn't make climate science any less valid.
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:37 PM, William Wade <willm.wade at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>> "Let the firestorm begin! ;-)"
>>> Are you attempting a forecast? To the stake!
>>> (Reminds me also that I love the new player in the weather site and api
>>> business: forecast.io )
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:31 PM, kitepilot at kitepilot.com <
>>>kitepilot at kitepilot.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> From economics to aviation...
>>>> Pilots *KNOW* that the weather forecast is nothing else than a
>>>> horoscope with numbers.
>>>> <duck>
>>>> Does that equalize the 'Science of Economy' with the 'Science of
>>>> Astrology'?
>>>> Let the firestorm begin! ;-)
>>>> </duck>
>>>> ET
>>>>>>>> Randy Yates writes:
>>>>>>>>> There's very few sciences that I don't trust, economics is one of them.
>>>>> Call it backward thinking if you want, but I find economics experts
>>>>> about
>>>>> as credible as big foot experts. I wouldn't even trust a super computer
>>>>> mining big data to predict the economy. There's too many factors that
>>>>> come
>>>>> into play to change it. There's the obvious things like natural
>>>>> disasters
>>>>> and the outbreak of war, but there's also events like a damn economics
>>>>> expert making a TV appearance or writing an article about something.
>>>>> All
>>>>> those things can alter the natural flow of the economy. So I don't see
>>>>> it
>>>>> as a very accurate science. A physicists can't get on TV and talk about
>>>>> gravity and cause gravity to change its behavior.
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Stephen Kraus <
>>>>>ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Krugman actually predicted the housing crisis. A few economists
>>>>>> did
>>>>>> actually.
>>>>>> I am in no way saying the banking industry is perfect, after all, they
>>>>>> purposely wanted the removal of the Glass-Steagall Act so that they
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> make trades and investments they knew were bad just to make a quick
>>>>>> buck.
>>>>>> Its why regulation and deregulation is a double edged sword, some
>>>>>> regulations are heavy handed sure, but some were also put in place to
>>>>>> protect people and prevent overzealous companies from causing
>>>>>> intentional
>>>>>> harm for the sake of profit.
>>>>>> Randy, c'mon now. So I guess based on that logic, any and all experts
>>>>>> should be dismissed as apparently they have not a clue? That is very
>>>>>> backwards thinking. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone is wrong at
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> point in time, that is not the same as saying 'People studying
>>>>>> systems like
>>>>>> an economy as a science are wrong because they know nothing despite
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> credentials'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Aaron welch <n2nightfall at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Josh, the difficulty would increase to make finding blocks that much
>>>>>>> harder and the value that much higher. Imagine it like the first
>>>>>>> stock
>>>>>>> certificate for GE or Coke and how much those would be worth today
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> all the stock splits.
>>>>>>> -AW
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Joshua Estes <f1gm3nt at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.google.com/search?**q=inventor%20committed%20to%**>>>>>>>> 20mental%20institution<https://www.google.com/search?q=inventor%20committed%20to%20mental%20institution>
>>>>>>>> Even the smartest people are wrong some of the time.
>>>>>>>> 1: When you start out learning something say economics, you read
>>>>>>>> everything you can on the subject. Eventually you can recall things
>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>> on previous work or come up with your own theories. At some point
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> believe in your idea so strongly that no one else is right. You
>>>>>>>> die, you
>>>>>>>> leave your legacy of books and papers behind.
>>>>>>>> Goto 1;
>>>>>>>> This process repeats itself over and over again. One of my biggest
>>>>>>>> questions I have with bitcoins, which I haven't bothered to ask
>>>>>>>> yet, is if
>>>>>>>> each block contains transactions that are to be tracked. What
>>>>>>>> happens when
>>>>>>>> the last block is found? Does the system fail at that point?
>>>>>>>> Bitcoins
>>>>>>>> interest me because it makes me ask questions, other people's
>>>>>>>> questions
>>>>>>>> about bitcoins interest me as well. Nothing is set yet and this
>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>> "experiment" could fail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Joshua Estes
>>>>>>>> @JoshuaEstes
>>>>>>>> "If you live periods of your life in misery, when you remember back
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> those times, all you'll remember is the misery. The misery robs you
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> great memories you could otherwise be making."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Stephen Kraus <
>>>>>>>>ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Randy, thank you, yes, deflation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Randy Yates <lpcustom at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't that rapid deflation?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Stephen Kraus <
>>>>>>>>>>ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And Lynn, I think you are probably one of the smartest people
>>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>>> so I find it hard to criticize your argument because they are
>>>>>>>>>>> usually
>>>>>>>>>>> fairly well thought out.
>>>>>>>>>>> My other big thing with Bitcoins is the rapid inflation. I mean
>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>> at that guy who paid for a pizza in bitcoins a couple years ago,
>>>>>>>>>>> the amount
>>>>>>>>>>> he paid for the pizza would now be worth hundreds of thousands
>>>>>>>>>>> of dollars!
>>>>>>>>>>> Even inflation from the early 1900s to now isn't nearly that
>>>>>>>>>>> bad.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Stephen Kraus <
>>>>>>>>>>>ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I criticize it because numerous economics professors criticize
>>>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Look, I'm all for you doing Bitcoin, its your time and your
>>>>>>>>>>>> processing power, not mine.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But lets be perfectly honest: When a bunch of people who spend
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> entire lives studying economic systems inside and out say its a
>>>>>>>>>>>> waste and
>>>>>>>>>>>> it will lead nowhere, I'm of the mind to take their opinions
>>>>>>>>>>>> into account.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Especially when a Nobel Laureate is saying so.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now, I've watched the Bitcoin trends from Mt. Gox and it
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> bouncy as hell, repeatedly bubbles then pops. It doesn't matter
>>>>>>>>>>>> how often
>>>>>>>>>>>> it spikes if it cannot stay consistent at a certain value for
>>>>>>>>>>>> long or
>>>>>>>>>>>> trends rapidly up and down.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just read this thread, ignore some of the goofiness and listen
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> some of the people in it. I find their opinions seem to reflect
>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>> people I know in the economics fields:
>>>>>>>>>>>>http://forums.somethingawful.**com/showthread.php?threadid=**>>>>>>>>>>>> 3543334&pagenumber=70#lastpost<http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3543334&pagenumber=70#lastpost>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Lynn Dixon <boodaddy at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is surprising to me is the vast number of people that will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump in and criticize the currency after doing no research on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will read a few articles on the web, or maybe even some horrid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitcointalk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> forum posts and simply make an assumption that is usually
>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The currency works, and works well. I have been mining for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>>> now, nearly two years, and I have personally made some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> impressive returns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also used the currency quite a bit. I have used it as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a vehicle of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exchange when dealing with foreign currency, I have used it as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a vehicle of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exchange for goods and services, and I even accept bitcoin as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> payment for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my web hosting company.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Mike Robinson <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>miker at sundialservices.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are just my thoughts – but I see a bully pulpit here,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll be brief.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you wanted to fleece a bunch of nerds, how would you do it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, first of all, you'd promise them, one way or another,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "easy money."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, knowing that many of them spend hours each day in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gam-environments where guns never run out of ammo, you'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> promise them "make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your own money." An altogether synthetic currency system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "World Money,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Release 2.0."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You'd slow-roll the whole thing. Just toss the ball out onto
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field almost unmentioned. Aside from the obvious need for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plausible denial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when the sheet hits the fan, you're playing hard to get, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the form of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cryptographic-based puzzle that can only be brute-forced, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shown to be solvable. Add a few more promises – that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supply of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "money" will always be limited (never mind how) – and wait
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Powerball Effect to take hold of its own accord. A very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large number of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paper cards are thrown away near my driveway, because I live
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a country
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> road about a quarter-mile from a convenience store. I pick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them up by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hundreds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, start selling supplies .. for real money. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course. Every now and then, grab a quiet instant-success
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> headline, say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by selling a Ferrari (a Ford will NOT do ...) for this "new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money." Then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wait.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a Crowd Psychology 101 play, people, and I just want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .. there are some things in this ol' world that are truly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ancient, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding new and creative ways to rip off your fellow-man by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leveraging his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own gullibility is one of them. I don't want my Chattanooga
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> virtual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends to be among those many that will eventually be hurt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #undef soapbox .. Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – Mike Robinson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (615) 268-3829
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Google reads my email!
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> Chugalug mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Aaron Welch
>>>>>>> Chief Mechanic @ Geek Ventures
>>>>>>> 423-505-9999
>>>>>>>n2nightfall at gmail.com>>>>>>> "Enabling people to do great things with their own ideas."
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> Chugalug mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>> Chugalug mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>> Google reads my email!
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