Hans Reiser Trial: April 7, 2008

Henry K. Lee is liveblogging the Hans Reiser murder trial. See all his Chronicle articles on the case here and all his blog entries here.

Trial schedule update. Hans Reiser is finished with his testimony. The trial is dark until Monday, April 14 at 10 a.m., at which time an Alameda County sheriff’s office computer forensic technician will go over an analysis of the two hard drives from Reiser’s computer that the defense turned over last week.

When the technician is done testifying next Monday, the attorneys will then give closing arguments, Judge Larry Goodman told the panel. The jury can expect to begin deliberating by the end of next week, he said.

A female juror in the front row asked the judge if they would maintain the same Monday through Thursday trial schedule, and Goodman said yes. The judge added that it would be up to jurors to decide whether they wanted to deliberate on Fridays.

And with that, the jury filed out to begin a week’s recess. The attorneys will be back in court tomorrow, however, for various matters including jury instructions.

Afternoon session. Hans Reiser is on the stand on redirect.

Reiser has previously testified that at one point after his wife disappeared, he went looking for deer in the woods not far from his home with a flashlight. “How would you describe the weather conditions?” Du Bois asked.

Asked by defense attorney William Du Bois if one of his e-mails to Nina was written in response to something she had said to him. Reiser said yes. “She said to me that I was uneducated, that I didn’t have a PhD, that I hadn’t read any of the classic literature that she had.” That explained some of his “inappropriate tone” in his e-mail, he said.

Reiser said he liked the approach to education described in the movie “Stand and Deliver,” in which “high expectations” and someone who “really cares” combine to “allow you to achieve incredibly powerful results.” His daughter’s kindergarten teacher was a standout, just like the teacher portrayed by actor Edward James Olmos, but Reiser said his son’s first-grade teacher was no such example.

Du Bois asked it ever occurred to Reiser to get out of his car and confront the police who were following him. “That’s very dangerous to do, and I felt it was dangerous. The police actually advised that if somebody’s following you that you not get out and confront them, because people get killed doing that.” He added that police had been following him in a minivan, which is not a standard vehicle used by police. “I didn’t know that these are asset-seizure vehicles, and the police get to take them home and use them as their personal vehicles.”

Du Bois asked what was the best feature on the 1991 Plymouth Laser that Reiser had owned.

“The bumper sticker,” Reiser said.

“What did that say?” Du Bois asked.

“No, you may not search my car, my person or my residence,” Reiser said. “And then, below that in fine print was the name of some public defender in Marin who was running for office. And when I had that bumper sticker on my car, the police never even asked to search my car, which was always a source of discomfort when they come up to you after some traffic stop and say, you know, ‘May I search your car?’ with this undercurrent of ‘you’re being uncooperative if you don’t let me go searching through your car.’ You have every constitutional right not to be searched.” Reiser added, “That’s always been my attitude, even in my 20s. Just in the 90s, I got a bumper sticker that made it socially easier. And I miss that bumper sticker — but not the rest of the car,” which had mechanical problems.

Du Bois referred to page 7,824 of the discovery and again asked if Reiser at one point tried to determine whether ear surgery was necessary for his son. Reiser confirmed that he spoke to his then-divorce attorney, John Fuery, who had suggested that Reiser consult an allergist.

“Why trust a lawyer’s advice on adenoids?” Du Bois asked.

“Because he’s very bright, his father was a doctor, and I felt that he actually should have become a medical researcher rather than a lawyer. He studied biochemistry, and he advised me that his father, who’s a doctor, had said surgeons like to cut, and so therefore if you really want to know if an adenoidectomy should be done, you need to talk to an allergist, an allergist independent of the surgeon, not an allergist referred by a surgeon,” Reiser said. He added that in cases of Munchausen syndrome by proxy, one has to “check things much more carefully than you otherwise would. You just become very careful about everything.”

Du Bois asked if Reiser had ever used his sleeping bag stuff sack as a pillow, and Reiser said, “Uh, yes.”

“How did you do that?” Du Bois asked.

“Uh, there were clothes that I put into this sleeping bag container and that made it into a pillow,” Reiser said.

“When you went camping, did you do the same?” Du Bois asked, and Reiser said, “Probably.”

“You wouldn’t remember?” Du Bois asked.

“No, I wouldn’t remember that kind of detail,” Reiser said. “That was a long time ago.”

“Did you say you went camping on two occasions?” Du Bois asked.

“At least two occasions,” Reiser said, adding, “I mean with Nina.”

“That’s what I meant,” Du Bois said. “Can you describe when?”

“Once in Big Sur,” Reiser said. “Another time was in Yellowstone. I don’t doubt that we went camping more than two times, but those are the times that come to mind.”

“Do you remember any details of the camping trip?” Du Bois asked.

“Well, she was pissy at the Big Sur one. The Yellowstone one was more fun. And, just, kind of — you should never go on a vacation with a woman at that time of the month. It’s better to stay home and work the weekend than to go on vacation at the time of the month. You’ll have more fun,” Reiser said.

“What do you mean, ‘that time of the month?’ ” Du Bois asked.

“Uh, when it’s her period,” Reiser said. A female juror in the front row appeared displeased by the whole discussion of that time of the month.

“This wasn’t a mandatory trip, was it?” Du Bois asked.

But Reiser was still talking about that time of the month. He said in retrospect, “The next time a woman brings a box of tampons on a camping trip I’ll turn around.” He added, “Yellowstone

was fun,” as bison came right up to the car.

Talk then turned to some kind of analysis that may or may not have been done as part of this case. Reiser began speaking on the issue without a question pending. “I know it wasn’t done,” Reiser said.

“Mr. Reiser,” warned Judge Larry Goodman.

“It wasn’t in discovery,” Reiser insisted.

“Bill,” the judge complained to Du Bois. He then said to the jury, “Ladies and gentlemen, go upstairs for a minute, please?”

As they filed out, Goodman told the attorneys to come see him in chambers. Reiser remained on the stand for a few minutes but was later told to wait in a holding area by sheriff’s deputies.

After about 10 minutes, the jurors filed back in. The judge addressed a note that he had been given by one of the panelists asking him to explain the reference this morning to 352. The judge told them that he has the discretion to balance the probative value of testimony against prejudicial, time-consuming effect. (The number refers the Evidence Code section). He then told Du Bois, “Bill, go ahead.”

Du Bois sought to ask whether Reiser’s son had been accurate in his testimony in some respects, but Hora objected, saying it was improper for Reiser to be asked to analyze another witness’ testimony. It’s the jury’s job to weigh witness testimony, Hora said, and the judge agreed.

“No further questions,” Du Bois said.

Goodman asked Hora if he had any questions for Reiser, and the prosecutor said, “Briefly.” He turned to Reiser and said, “Afternoon, Mr. Reiser.” The defendant replied, “Good afternoon.”

Hora asked Reiser to confirm some car-part details, including the rear trim assembly and screws that were connected to the passenger seat that was removed from the Honda CRX.

Hora asked if Reiser had made two attempts to sleep in the back of the car, and Reiser said yes.

“That had nothing do with sex?” Hora asked.

“Do we really need to go into these kinds of details?” Reiser asked.

“How much time did you spend in the back — no we don’t,” Hora said in response to Reiser’s question.

“Just out of respect for…” Reiser said.

“How time time did you spend in the back of the car?” the DA asked.

“I think we slept that night. The next night we went to a hotel,” Reiser said.

Hora had nothing further, so Du Bois began wrapping it up. He asked if Reiser had “all this material in the back of the car” when he was cited by a Redwood City police officer for making an illegal U-turn on Sept. 12, 2006.

“Yes, I must have, ‘cuz I didn’t move in ’til later,” Reiser said, adding however that there may be material he couldn’t remember in his mother’s garage, such as parts from the trunk and a wheel-well cover.

Du Bois had nothing further, so Goodman told Reiser, “Step down.”

The judge told jurors that that testimony has concluded — except because the hard drives were “late being acquired by the district attorney, he has taken — Paul, why don’t you explain where they are.”

Hora said the two hard drives (that Reiser had removed from his computer and given to Du Bois, who produced them in court for the first time last week) were now being analyzed by an Alameda County sheriff’s office computer forensic examiner.

Goodman told jurors, “The forensic examiner has informed the district attorney that there are –” He addressed Hora, “A million?”

“Two million,” Hora responded.

“Two million files,” the judge said.

“Two million files and 50 million lines of text,” Hora added.

Goodman said the

forensic examiner needs time for the analysis, plus the expert “left this afternoon for a training seminar in Los Angeles.” The examiner reviewed the hard drives this past weekend and will continue the analysis upon returning. This means the jury won’t need to come back until Monday, April 14 at 10 a.m., Goodman said. On that date, the forensic examiner will testify. Closing arguments will then begin immediately thereafter, the judge said. “OK?” Goodman asked.

Reiser was whispering into Du Bois’ ear. Du Bois addressed Goodman, saying his client wanted to bring something to the jury’s attention today, rather than wait until the 14th.

“Oh, by all means, Mr. Du Bois,” Goodman said with a dash of sarcasm.

Reiser continued to confer with Du Bois. DA’s Inspector Bruce Brock handed Hora a note in the meantime.

After a few moments, Du Bois asked Goodman, “Can we go into the well?” referring to Du Bois and Reiser seeking to have a private conversation in the stairwell behind a courtroom door.

“Sure,” Goodman said with a touch of resignation.

More waiting. A male juror in the front row who enjoys the occasional restaurant lunches with fellow jurors proclaimed, “Lunch!” That prompted the panelists to guffaw. He really likes his food.

Goodman joked that the juror just wanted to “string it out so you can be fed.” He added that starting next week, “We feed you every day.”

After more waiting, the judge said the attorneys wanted the panelists to know that they can expect to begin deliberating by the end of next week.

Du Bois and Reiser returned to the courtroom. Du Bois told the judge that his client has two more items, “literally” that he wanted to discuss that “bear on his conduct as described by the prosecutor.” Du Bois promised that it “will not consume a large part of the afternoon” and predicted that it would take “no more than 15 minutes.”

“OK,” Goodman replied. He looked at jurors and put his hands out, palms up, in a shrug-like gesture.

Du Bois put a picture of a GPS tracking device on the screen. Reiser said on Sept. 30, 2006, “I noticed that there were two Russian-speaking gentlemen standing next to me. One of them was holding themselves oddly.” One man (it was unclear if it was the oddly-holding one), had his hands in his pockets. One “decided to go to the bathroom,” Reiser said as the judge scrunched his brow. “I felt a little nervous. I went out and looked for cops that had been following me that whole time. And none of them were around. And I went running and looking for cops, didn’t find them. And I decided not to go back to my car that night because I was worried that these two gentlemen, who coincidentally appeared just as the cops disappeared, intended… I didn’t want to get killed.”

The next day, Reiser said he went to his rented Ford Escort and found the object on the screen attached to the gasoline tank. It turned out to be the battery cover for a GPS tracking device, he said. “I didn’t know that at that time,” Reiser said.

Du Bois asked, “What do you think it was?” but Reiser said he wanted to describe “a little more” how he went about investigating the contraption. He said he got a screwdriver and a digital camera and took pictures of the thing. “I was worried about whether I should even touch it, but it was a Sunday, I couldn’t call Mr. Du Bois and ask the name of the PI. I couldn’t reach him, and so I looked at this.” He deemed it to risky at first, but “this time, curiosity killed the cat. So I unscrewed it, and I looked at it.” Motioning to a plate on the object on the screen, Reiser said, “This is actually a thick, heavy metal cover. That’s solid metal. Thick solid metal.”

He said to his untrained eye, he thought some wires sticking out of it meant that it was some kind of detonator.

“Before you go any further, can we set the scene a little bit, of how these pictures were taken?” Du Bois asked.

Reiser said he crawled underneath the Ford, took pictures and sent them to Du Bois, who then sent them to a PI. Reiser said the PI reported that had it been some kind of explosive device, it would have been placed underneath the seat, not the gasoline tank.

“So they can blow up the person sitting on the seat, not the gas tank?” Du Bois asked.

Reiser agreed, saying, “you only put it under the gas tank if they wanted a Hollywood-type movie explosion,” Reiser said.

“In any event, this was not a bomb to start with?” Du Bois asked.

“Right,” Reiser said, although he added that when he first saw the battery pack, he wasn’t sure if it “looked like a wire going into a C4 something-or-other.”

Reiser confirmed that he reassembled the tracking device because he didn’t want to “annoy the police any more, and they get really punitive when you do things like..”

“Destroy a GPS device?” Du Bois finished.

“Well, I did consider selling it on eBay,” Reiser said as a male juror in the back row chuckled. “But I decided to engage in very useful social skills and not annoy the police by selling the GPS locator on eBay.”

Du Bois turned to whether Reiser felt taken advantage of in Juvenile Court, and Reiser said yes. He said a teacher at Grand Lake Montessori testimony that was contradicted by another witness with regard to whether the school had received a therapist’s report that dealt with allegations that his son had poor muscle tone and weak wrists.

“Thank you, no further questions,” Du Bois said.

“No questions, your honor, thank you,” Hora said.

“Step down, please,” the judge told Du Bois.

“May the record reflect that it took less than 15 minutes, against all odds,” Du Bois said.

Morning session. Hans Reiser’s mother, Beverly Palmer, is sitting in the foyer outside the courtroom. Judge Larry Goodman welcomed the jury back. The defense’s investigator, Clarick Brown, is back on the stand.

On Feb. 29, 2008, Leap Day, Brown, a former Berkeley police officer, made a video of the home Palmer and Reiser shared on Exeter Drive in the Oakland hills. Defense attorney William Du Bois played the video, without sound, as the P.I. described each part of the home from the stand.

The footage, entitled “Video Tour,” shows the exterior of the home, the driveway and the stairs that lead down to a small deck and the front door. A neighbor’s yard and house is visible to the left of Reiser’s home when one faces the front door. The video then takes us inside the house to the front room, where the post where police say blood containing the DNA of both Hans and Nina was found. The video continues through rooms and hallways in the house. A female alternate juror sneezed at one point. “Bless you,” Goodman mouthed to her from the bench.

Brown said he obtained Reiser’s fanny pack from Palmer several days after the video was shot. Du Bois handed Brown a box of items, including the fanny pack and Reiser’s cell phone. Brown identified the items.

Prosecutor Paul Hora had no questions for Brown.

Palmer was then called back to the stand. She has testified previously during the trial as both a prosecution and defense witness. Du Bois flashed onto a screen some kind of court transcript. Hora asked for a sidebar, saying he didn’t know what was on the screen. Du Bois said it’s the preliminary hearing transcript. Hora said that’s why he called for a sidebar. The attorneys disappeared into Goodman’s chambers. When they emerged, Du Bois made no mention of the transcript.

Instead, Du Bois asked Palmer to confirm that before she left for the Burning Man festival in the Nevada desert, she had called her son an “inconsiderate slob” and told him to clean up the house and both her cars.

Palmer said her son also had to buy potting soil to plant a new Japanese maple on the property. The original plan was to plant a giant Sequoia, she said.

Palmer confirmed that she handed over to Brown her son’s fanny pack.

She confirmed that there are cherry and plum trees around her house. Cherry blossoms end up blowing onto the property, she said.

Du Bois showed pictures of Palmer’s driveway, the back deck and porch. Leaves can be seen on them. “You had a permanent coat of leaves on the driveway?” Du Bois asked, and Palmer said yes. (Reiser has testified that he spent time hosing down the driveway to get rid of “tree drippings.”)

Du Bois showed pictures of a plum tree that rises over the front deck.

Hora had no questions for Palmer.

Reiser will be back on the stand after the mid-morning recess.

When we returned, Reiser strode to the stand. He’s wearing a red tie, the first time he’s had a tie while on the stand.

Du Bois asked about Nina’s deposition, but it was difficult to get the defendant to answer directly. He told his attorney that he needed to expand on “things that are essential to understand references.” The judge said they didn’t need any of that.

Du Bois implored his client to stick to the question asked. Reiser said as part of the divorce proceeedings, he sought to subpoena Sean Sturgeon’s records. He referred to his former best friend, who had an affair with Nina shortly after her daughter was born in 2001.

But Reiser said he needed to go into the legal basis before answering the question. “We’re not interested in the legal basis, Mr. Reiser,” Goodman told him. “Please answer your attorney’s questions.”

“Please describe for us,” Du Bois said. “You don’t have to read from the exhibit. Just describe for us what you’re talking about, if you can,” Du Bois said, as Reiser interjected, “Yes.” Du Bois continued, “Without going into more detail than we need to have.”

But Reiser again didn’t answer the question pending. The judge, sounding more exasperated, told him, “Mr. Reiser, I have told you repeatedly. You talk when they’re a question to answer. Other than that, don’t talk.” The judge turned to Du Bois. “Bill, somehow we have to get this back on track,” Goodman said as he moved his hands in a “move along” gesture.

In response to a question, Reiser said Nina used “a credit card in Sean’s name with her address, which thereby revealed that she was using Sean as a conduit for money.”

Hora moved to strike the last part of the answer, and the judge sided with the DA.

” I don’t understand,” Reiser said.

“You don’t have to understand,” Du Bois said. “You just have to answer the question.”

During another exchange, Reiser sharply told his attorney that he was trying to answer his question. “If you would not interrupt me, I’ll get to it,” Reiser said.

Reiser said of Sturgeon and Nina, “Their monies intermingled.”

“How did that implicate Nina?” Du Bois asked.

“Because it meant we’d be able to show embezzlement and false statements in regard to the divorce,” Du Bois said.

Du Bois asked a yes-or-no question on the matter, but Reiser didn’t answer directly. “It calls for a yes or no answer, Mr. Reiser,” the judge told him.

Reiser said Nina “engaged in false statements during the deposition to such an extent that she actually went and thought she could get away with listing no bank accounts at all in a form she signed under penalty for perjury.”

Reiser added that Nina had engaged in at least “a dozen perjuries.” He added again, “Actually more.” Du Bois said he wanted his client’s answer to be considered non-responsive.

Reiser said he wasn’t familiar with Fernwood Drive in the Oakland hills, where police found Nina’s abandoned Honda Odyssey minivan, with rotting groceries from Berkeley Bowl inside. But he said he knew it was found very close to Ellen Doren’s home. He said he knows this because he looked on a map.

Turning to the hard drives, Du Bois asked whether the computer components had been altered since Reiser last worked on them. Reiser said an expert would have to be consulted. But he said he hasn’t done anything with the hard drives since he turned them over to Du Bois.

Reiser said a Department of Homeland Security agent came in 2003 and “asked us about stuff” relating to structuring, a crime in which financial transactions are set up in such a way to avoid record-keeping and reporting requirements.

“I don’t know whether they were serious about investigating us for structuring or using it as a pretext to look at Nina for some other reason, but they did knock on our door,” Reiser said.

“This has to do with you paying your people in Russia in cash,” Du Bois asked.

“That’s what they said,” Reiser said. He said the reason he removed the hard drives had to do with the reported investigation. The agent had told him he had to fill out a form every month in order to not violate the law, and Reiser said, “I never got around to filling out the forms.”

More questions that appeared to cover old ground. This prompted Hora to object, saying, “Asked and answered. This is the 10th day of testimony. This is wasting time.” Problem is, said Goodman with a smile, “I don’t remember” if the question was asked and answered. Nevertheless, the judge told Du Bois, “Just try to keep it on track.”

“I understand,” Du Bois said. “This is it,” he added, holding up pages from a yellow lined pad. “I’m down to the last three pages. If I wasn’t interrupted so often…” Du Bois said, looking at Hora with a smile.

Du Bois asked if Reiser is “attacked socially for things that no one else is attacked for, just during the period of this case.”

Reiser said he wasn’t sure what Du Bois meant as far as parameters of the case. “Does the case start with the separation?” Reiser asked.

More questions by Du Bois, and more non-answers. More successful objections by Hora on the grounds of non-responsiveness.

“How is that non-responsive?” Reiser sputtered at one point. He complained about the accusation that his son was traumatized by violent computer games. That prompted Hora to say, “The witness shouldn’t be arguing with the court or the prosecution.”

“I’m not sure who he’s arguing with,” Goodman said. “Anyway, the jury will disregard the last statement.”

Du Bois asked why Reiser felt attacked socially.

“Scientists communicate by reference to data. If I can’t give the examples, I can’t communicate effectively because that’s not how scientists talk,” Reiser said. “We don’t just throw out assertions that can’t be supported by data points that prove what we say. I have a habit, I have a compulsive tendency to say things that I know are true, that people do not want to be true, and I do this by reference to the data.”

“Let me ask..” Du Bois began, but his client was still talking.

“Very often people respond to that by refusing to look at the data, and I have found a little niche in society where I can get away with pointing out things that people don’t want to believe are true,” Reiser continued. “But proving them by reference to data, and that niche is working as scientist.”

“OK, why do you believe..” Du Bois began again.

“In most of the rest of society, that practice works disastrously. If you tell people things they don’t want to hear, they don’t like you for it,” Reiser said. “If you prove it, they hate you even more. I can give examples from literature.”

Hora said this answer was a narrative and irrelevant. “You have a motion?” Goodman asked, and Hora said, “To strike.” The judge responded, “Granted. The jury will disregard.”

“Why do you want to strike it?” Du Bois asked the judge.

“Because you know what, Bill?” Goodman said. “It’s taking up a long time. Under 352, I can do that. If it’s more prejudicial and time-consuming than probative in helping the jury reach a conclusion, then we don’t need to hear it.”

More attempts by Du Bois to ask why Reiser felt attacked socially or why he attacted such attacks. More objections by Hora. Du Bois complained that all of Reiser’s answers were being stricken. He turned to his client and said, “Listen carefully.”

It was clear that Reiser was upset. Du Bois again asked, “Can you hear me?”

“Yes,” Reiser replied.

“Why do you believe that you tend to attract such attacks?” Du Bois asked.

“Actually, this is a perfect example of it. He doesn’t want to hear the data,” Reiser said. “And back when the prosecutor..”

“Your honor, it’s becoming non-responsive,” Hora said.

Reiser said something indignantly from the stand, prompting Goodman to raise his voice and sternly tell him, “Mr. Reiser. Enough! I’ve had it with your answers that don’t answer anything.” He ordered Reiser’s last statement stricken from the record.

“Why do you believe that you tend to attract such attacks?” Du Bois asked again as his client looked balefully out at the courtroom, his head on his right hand.

“Part of it is I conduct myself in a way that people interpret or mean that I’m egoistical, and there may be..” Reiser began.

“At times, but not as much as people think I am,” Reiser replied. “Often it’s the manner in which I convey myself that people interpret as being egotistical. For instance, I can give you a concrete example–”

Hora again objected on the grounds or non-responsiveness and said this again was becoming a narrative. Du Bois told his client to “Just answer the question.

“Yes, may I explain?” Reiser asked.

“No, I do not wish an explanation,” Du Bois said.

“Do you think you failed to pay attention to the feelings of those who you talk to?” Du Bois asked, and Reiser said yes.

He asked to explain. “My normal mode of interaction is to think of what I’m saying rather than think about the person that I’m talking to,” he said. “So I typically look down or, if it’s a man, drop my look to chest level and refocus my eyes. I’ll think of what I’m saying.” He added, “When people sense you’re oblivious to their feelings, they interpret that as you’re egotistical, not only egotistical but you disagreed with them. And that’s merely how my brain works.” He noted that “there are other people academia who also have a tendency to do this. We’re all kind of comfortable with each other, but we go out to the rest of society, we can have severe problems.”

Du Bois asked if he was a non-conformist. Reiser said, “I enjoy doing things that don’t conform and adhere to other people because they are less correct and less efficient.” He said he tends to annoy people and “disturb their sense of order and their sense of how the world should be, and I am compulsive in this.” That hurts him, he said.

He agreed that his sleeping in cars and modifying them “so they can be slept in” reflects this non-conformity, though he noted again that other people have slept in cars. He said this non-conformity was also displayed by his decision to spray the CRX with water instead of renting a shampoo device.

At one point, as Du Bois was preparing to ask another question, Reiser said, “It also..” but Du Bois told him there’s no question.

Reiser said something that’s caused him both trouble and success in his career is his willingness to check the data that “nobody else wanted to do.” He said he spent decades showing that “certain fundamental assumptions underlying both file system and database theory are poor assumptions.”

Reiser said both his children showcase this trait. “I would say (his daughter) is not a compulsive non-conformist, but (his son) is. And that’s how he alienated his attorney and got sent to Russia.”

Du Bois asked if there would be a rebuttal to the defense argument, and Hora objected on the grounds of speculation.

“No, I did not,” Reiser replied. “And that’s how I know you can’t rebut the evidence — the testimony. There will be no rebuttal evidence. That’s how I know.”

“How do you know that (your son’s) dream of you carrying a package with Nina in it down the stairs on Sept. 3 is false?” Du Bois asked.

“Because (my son) would never be afraid of me carrying anything down the stairs,” Reiser said. “And in one of the versions he describes ‘shaking with fear.’ “

“Did you carry anything down the stairs at all?” Du Bois asked.

Reiser paused. “Down the stairs? No,” he shook his head. “I don’t think I carried anything down the stairs. I didn’t carry anything down the stairs on the 3rd — macaroni and cheese?” he suggested.

“Think hard,” Du Bois instructed.

Du Bois again asked whether Reiser believed his son only had a dream. Reiser didn’t answer directly but said, “I know that it’s a dream.”

Hora said that was non-responsive, and the judge agreed. “Mr. Reiser, answer the question. Answer yes or no. Do that first.”

“I’m sorry, what was the question?” Reiser asked.

“There was no question,” Hora said.

“There actually was, he just didn’t answer it,” Goodman said.

“Why do you believe it was a dream?” Du Bois asked. Hora deemed that speculative.

But Reiser answered, “Because I didn’t kill Nina. Can I expand, add a reason why other people can know, besides just me? I know that I didn’t kill Nina. But there are other reasons the jury can know are true that it it just had been a dream.”

Hora again objected, saying that was non-responsive. Goodman said it also calls for speculation, the way he answered.

“Are there other reasons why you know the dream is false?” Du Bois asked, and Reiser said yes.

“What are those?” Du Bois asked.

“That’s still speculation,” Hora said.

Goodman said he’d allow it, subject to a motion to strike.

“Because in one of the accounts of this dream, he describes ‘shaking with fear,’ and (my son) was in no way, shape or form afraid of me or what I might be carrying down any stairs. So if I was carrying anything down the stairs, he would not be afraid of it.” He added that his son “loves me and he trusts me completely, and there’s no way prior to CPS coming in and getting a hold of him that he’s afraid of me.”