You guys are right when you say that a DM can make adjustments to account for the way a player roleplays the encounter, but that's a very 1st Edition mentality (and I like it!) 3.x isn't MEANT to do that however. Using the example of talking to a person whose dog I killed... if the DC to persuade the person to like me is 30, but there's still a chance they'll hate me even if I make that roll, then the DC is set too low in the first place. The whole point of the DC system is that the target number is set based on ALL in game factors, such that the player need to hit that number to accomplish their task. On the other hand if you're saying the NPC might hate me regardless of what I roll ('cause I killed his dog, after all) then you're going against the 3.x system altogether.

Cass: Why don't I get a save?
Lodge: It's a Death Demon. It's fear aura is too strong. You can't roll a successful save.
Cass: Incorrect.
Lodge: What's your Will save modifier?
Cass: +9.
Lodge: The DC to beat this demon's fear aura is a 32, you would have to roll a 23 on a 20 sided die in order to succeed. Now I don't have a math degree, but that's impossible, isn't it?
Cass: A natural 20 is an automatic success no matter the circumstances.
Lodge: But you only have a 5% chance of rolling that 20.
Cass: Do I at least get that roll? I mean, it's in the rules. Is it okay if we play by the rules?
Lodge: (waves for him to proceed)
Cass: Rolls a natural 1
Lodge: OOOooohhhhh!!! A fumble! That means you're completely compelled, and I get to control your character until you snap out of it! Since we're playing by the rules, I know you don't mind.
Cass: Oh shut up, Kevin.

Last edited by ArcticFox on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool."
—Brigham Young

"Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus."
—Christopher Hitchens

The 3.x books allow the DM to modify the DC for how well you role play the encounter, if I recall correctly (I have the 3.0 books stored away somewhere. So if the DC to persuade the person whose dog you killed is listed at 30 but the player makes a really compelling argument for why the dog owner should help him, the DM can knock the DC to 25 if he wants to in order to reward good roleplaying. This gives affect for role playing but still allows your choices in what skills to invest in matter.

Pen and paper games are roleplaying games. You sit around the table and play the role of your character. One person is the referee (aka GM, DM, etc) who builds the story and plays the role of all non-player characters. You have the details of your character on a sheet of paper (like their skills, strength, equipment, etc.) and roll dice to determine the success of the actions you take (climbing a rope, attacking a dragon with a sword, convincing a merchant to sell at a lower price).

This kind of gaming is what later became MMOs, RPG video games, etc.

"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool."
—Brigham Young

"Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus."
—Christopher Hitchens

Right now World of Darkness is my favorite game system because of the emphasis on storytelling. My first gaming experience was with Shadowrun 2nd Ed. and the way it was ran really colored what I want from every game since. We did combat, sure, but we more or less ignored the dice mechanic and went full narrative because there was that level of trust between the GM and the player. It probably spoiled me some because the super-majority of games out there aren't like that.

So, now I gravitate toward games that put story over simulation, if you get what I'm saying. This has been a challenge for some of the GMs I play with as most are unused to exercising that muscle. And I get that. So, while the rest of the party is content to hit a thing, I'm more interested in developing a relationship with some NPC the GM didn't know I'd glom onto.

All this said, I'm very interested in what the new Star Wars RPG is up to. Fantasy Flight Games has built narrative triggers into character creation (with "Obligations") and the very dice themselves. I'm excited to play and run it.

Everything above this sentence is opinion and worth precisely what was paid for it.
Everything below this sentence is indisputable fact as verified by scientists, philosophers, scholars, clergy, and David Bowie.

I like Pathfinder, but then again that's what the groups I play with mostly play. I like how fast WoD's character creation is, but haven't played enough to really gauge how I like the system as a whole. Last week we started making characters for Sadowrun, which seems like a cool system as long as you have a dice roller app/

I really enjoy the Pathfinder system as well. I think it handles skills really well, and it seems to flow smoothly. At least from a player's standpoint... trying to design an adventure - especially when trying to add a custom creature (like a halfling thief with the ghost template) was occasionally an exercise in frustration. I didn't have much opportunity to make adventures (I tried converting my old 2nd edition campaign over to the new system because my players wanted it) but it seemed much more convoluted than it was in 2nd.

Many, MANY years ago my friends and I tried to play first edition Shadowrun. We rolled up some characters, and to try out the system, we went ahead and tried to fight between players. We rolled the dice once... then got utterly confused about what hit or what missed. We never did get it resolved, and never played again. I've heard they improved things in future editions, but it certainly didn't start off well.

I used to like the Street Fighter RPG. Made by White Wolf, it was similar to their other Storyteller games (e.g. Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: the Apocalypse, English Major: The Colon-Users....) but not nearly as dark. I was one of the few who enjoyed that system, sadly....

So...
I feel I'm beating a borderline-dead thread... But please cut some slack- I'm new here, and this is the most open thread in the forum (/singular board I signed up to participate in).

Disclaimer out of the way, my absolute favourite system is Dogs in the Vineyard. The rules set (wikipedia link) is beautifully minimal, intriguingly unique and fitting to the western genre. I especially love the custom feats, and how freeform the game is. I love how the game is designed to be played co-operatively- actively defining the line between player and character- so a character's secret, evil backstabbing plan may be played to full effect- or a conflict is resolved in a way which best suits the story- it's completely communal, and built to avoid rules-lawyering and selfish gameplay.

Coming a close second is Old WoD. My first adventure into Tabletop RPG's was Vampire: Masquerade (followed by joining a Requiem LARP- please don't judge me). I have to agree, the system is quite nice. I love the absolute freedom the Old WoD series gives. And the rulebooks were amazing. Beautiful and immersive and engrossing. I love that each clan book is written from the perspective of each clan- leading to conflicting Lore and adding realism and subjectivity to gameplay. I actually like the darkness in these games. That there is no 'lawful good', or 'lawful evil' - but futile victims of their foresires trying to make the best of their immortality, and fighting a losing battle with their beast.

And my limited experience with the 40k pen and paper systems has been simultaneously infuriating and delightful. I love how Dark Heresy seems designed against the stereotypical 4ed "I win!" mentality. I love that at least one member of the party will end a session horribly maimed- but (usually) stronger for it. I love that even though they're still stronger everything in the universe is a serious threat- especially their employers. I agree the % system is marvellous. The ciritcal hit charts can also be fun...

My only real experience with D&D is a 4th edition campaign- so I won't comment on the on-going version debates.

I most often play original Dungeons & Dragons or 1st edition AD&D. Lately I've been playing OSR games, like Dungeon Crawl Classics and Lamentations of the Flame Princess. I've playtested D&D Next, and that was fun though I'd probably power down higher levels (say, maximum HD 9).

I've played a bit of BRP, such as Stormbringer! and Call of Cthulu. I enjoyed GURPS with Planet of Adventure.