Stubborn Puppet wrote:Unless I'm horribly mistaken, no Ice Bowl fees went anywhere into course funding. It all went to the food pantries..

That's exactly right Puppet. So....with this being a fundraising tourney for our courses it shall all go to the courses such as it went to the pantries. That's all im sayin.Also, my idea was that we have a scrap metal gathering to take a bulk load to the scrap yard. All the people playing i'm quite sure has an appliance not working or never uses it. A/C units, stoves, fridges, freezers, etc. or even scrap farm equipment, yard ornaments, bed frames.... you catchin my drift to this? I also am now a union sheet metal worker putting in ductwork and gigantic units. we are throwin away hundreds of pounds of scrap that I could take at all times if I wanted. Also maybe each course captain put a couple recycle trash cans for aluminum..60cents a pound(about 20 cans) all green all free.

I know what Chris is talkin about. Had a friend allergic to wheat. Almost everything you eat n drink has some strand of it in it. 6 donuts for instance is $7, loaf of bread is $4..All wheat free. Its a rough expensive life.

Once again u get off topic(e$ & puppet) ;(). Put it in the "Recycle i want your crap" forums. Or Craig's list. I agree w/ Chris L. I have only recieved "1" lunch from the club in the years I've "thrownated". Thank goodness for the Lakers showing up every so often. (Got more snacks/lunch from them than any one else over the years) Don't drink alcohol, & can't eat certain foods. Want to throw w/ y'all but the way discussions r going isn't looking good.

It is what it is.You do not have to pay or play.(EVER)But if you like the courses we have already put in the ground then you as a frisbee golfer should help out.That being said I hope everyone comes out to help at Willmore. If ti sells out I will Pay and let someone else pay also and take my spot. That way the club gets double.

In response to Jeff about the ball golf comparison - Jeff, the comparison is not to say the prices should be relative, but is more of a "consumer perspective" thing or "perceived value" if you will. We get that this is a club and we are not purchasing a product.

Also, was I wrong to say this is a $30 entry fee with payouts as opposed to the normal $20? I may be mistaken about the itemized breakdown, but what I gather is there was $10 added for fundraising purposes. If this is the case then I think people need to do a lot less complaining! If you are not willing to pay an extra $10 bucks to help fund the first STL "CITY" course, then I don't know what to say. I think the conversation has gotten out of control like the club has amended some past bylaw or changed the entry fee structure...... Fundraisers are sort of a case to case basis, and relative to the amount of money needed to be raised, so I don't think a fundraiser entry fee can be standardized.

Jeff, I get your comment about inflation not affecting membership fees or the STL club as a whole, but again I think it is more about perceived value. Sure, inflation should not directly affect club membership fees, but inflation comes with time, along with increased cost of living etc, etc, etc. In my mind, just because this is a volunteer club, does not mean the membership fee should remain infiniteley stagnant. The cost of membership should be relative to the "value" of having the said membership, and as inflation along with other economic parameters change, so should the cost of a membership. I don't want to get into the economics of it, but I don't think Stubborn was off base to mention membership fees have not increased in quite some time. Should they increase linearly along with inflation, of course not, but a small increase every 10 years or so, that seems reasonable. Basically, $25 dollars is worth less than it used to be, so when we pay $25 for membership, we are inherently paying less and receiving the same "value". Shoot, by the year 2089 we should be able to scrape up a membership fee from the curb on are way to the course.

I am not trying to bust any balls and am up for debate. I get that circumstances vary, and truly don't want the ability to afford playing in a Tourney to be anyone's deciding factor. But I think this debate is more about principle, and some people are feeling gouged. For me, I feel like it is perfectly fair.

Jim, you make some good points that are hard to debate. That said, I think the purpose of my post may have been misunderstood. In a club like the RCF, I think the board needs to strive to offer a win-win situation to go along with the value we've already discussed. For the club, a "win" is raising funds to pay for the courses. For the tournament participants, a "win" is a fun day of disc golf that offers a good value. This is where I think the planning could have been better. Take the inaugural putters for example. Instead of adding and extra $5/participant to the entry fee, they very easily could have sold those as "fundraiser" discs for $10 in the club merch and "doubled" their profit. This allows people options. For those that want a putter, they can buy it, for those that don't want one (like myself) they aren't charged extra for added "value" that they don't want. Instead of using Gary for food, they could have provided a much cheaper lunch with hotdogs, etc. Or, even offered a pot luck style lunch where 10-15 members offer to bring a dish for the group. Again, I do not want to take anything away from Gary's cooking. i'm sure it is excellent. But, we're not having a backyard BBQ, we're trying to offer nourishment to 90 +/-people between rounds. The $10 CTP deal is not all together bad for this particular tournament (especially since it is a fundraiser and if there is a CTP on every hole), but the club has been charging extra for CTp's since 2010, which I don't like. CTP's used to be included in the $20 entry fee.Finally, the financial part of the equation. I realize that you need to strike while the iron is hot (ie: install courses when you get the go ahead) but it seems like the club has leveraged themselves financially by (perhaps) biting off more than they can chew. From a fiscally responsible point of view, I would never spend money I don't already have in the bank. We should feel grateful that Dave Mac is offering flexible payment terms, I just think that this could be even more profitable and offer better value with a little more/better planning.

I'd like to say another thanks to Lazerface and irwinje for keeping this as one of the most productive, polite, intelligent and most well thought out discussions I've ever read in an online forum. It takes true integrity to be able to stay cool during a disagreement.

For myself, I actually agree with most of the points that both of you have made - not all, but most.

As for the Willmore Inaugural event, I don't think there is anyone who doesn't think there could have been improvements to the pricing and whatnot. Here's what I'll add, for whatever it's worth: Normally, a tournament should be announced months in advance and be planned out months in advance, a bare minimum of a month if you expect much attendance. We didn't even get the approval for the course signed until July 25th and didn't get an approval and permits to run an event until July 26th. Yes, a tentative date for this event was put on the calendar back in December of 2012, with the agreement that we should plan at least one event for Willmore during 2013, but that we could cancel it if the course never got installed. We all had really hoped that it would either be in the ground by May or we figured it would have been rejected by that point. Well, bureaucracy moves at a snails pace...

If anyone wants someone to blame for us throwing together a plan for the Willmore event on such short notice, thus having the details of pricing and food and disc and whatnot not be exceptionally appealing to all, blame ME. Since I was the one who was assigned responsibility for Willmore oversight and was assigned as the TD for the event, I should have began discussions with the rest of the board members much earlier. I got wrapped up with this and my usual habit of taking on more than I can handle at once (because I hate to say "no") and just plain neglected to say anything at any of the meetings. After all, it is the TD who is responsible for these kinds of details and that makes it my fault on this one. Being that this is my first event as TD, I'm sure this will be a major learning experience. Don't worry though, I've got plenty of professional assistant TD's watching my butt and it will run fine, regardless of all the debate over pricing.

I can see the lunch but its the first event in a city park so they want to do it big. As for the putter its five dollars that should be donated anyway. If you have too many putters then donate it back. Im sure if you that worried about someone or I will buy it off you forfive bucks. Wizard or magic please. I appreciate all the hard work