tiltbillings wrote:And do you think such teachers as Mahasi Sayadaw or U Pandita are not in line with what the Pali sources teach?

Any teacher that defines sati is awareness in the sense of being cognizant or consciousness of an object is out of line with the Pali sources.

That does not answer the question. Also, is Ven Analayo, in his brilliant study of satipatthana out of line in his book, SATIPATTHANA, when he refers to the "bare attention" aspect of sati (p. 60)? And one of the points being that sati is inclusive of a number of functions that are not necessarily captured by a bare dictionary rendering, but must be looked at in the context of how the word is used. Out of line, is he? Out of line as are Mahasi Saydaw and U Pandita in their teachings? Bare attention is not necessarily translated by sati.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

Yundi wrote:I already offered the view that mindfulness is that mental function that keeps awareness 'bare'.

Awareness or consciousness is something naturally 'bare' or pure until it is obscured by defilement.

(I trust you have read the Buddha's teaching on luminous mind in the Anguttara Ones.)

With metta

Okay.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

tiltbillings wrote:And do you think such teachers as Mahasi Sayadaw or U Pandita are not in line with what the Pali sources teach?

Any teacher that defines sati is awareness in the sense of being cognizant or consciousness of an object is out of line with the Pali sources.

That does not answer the question. Also, is Ven Analayo, in his brilliant study of satipatthana out of line in his book, SATIPATTHANA, when he refers to the "bare attention" aspect of sati (p. 60)? And one of the points being that sati is inclusive of a number of functions that are not necessarily captured by a bare dictionary rendering, but must be looked at in the context of how the word is used. Out of line, is he? Out of line are are Mahasi Saydaw and U Pandita in their teachings? Bare attention is not necessarily translated by sati.

Is it so outrageous to question certain teachings put forward by teachers, which seem to not quite be in line with the suttas. This in no way would cast any aspersions on those monks or there vinaya, but at some stage people have to decide whether they are taking refuge in a teacher (naughty naughty) or the Buddha (suttas/vinaya).

Last edited by Brizzy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Brizzy wrote:Is it so outrage to question certain teachings put forward by teachers, which seem to not quite be in line with the suttas.

Who would I listen to? You? Or a monk of long standing, deep practice and study who can read the suttas in the original language?

Who determines what is line with the suttas? I have seen pretty wacky interpretations of the suttas out there, even on DhammaWheel. I have seen nothing out line with the suttas in the teachings of Mahasi Sayadaw or U Pandita.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

Brizzy wrote:Is it so outrage to question certain teachings put forward by teachers, which seem to not quite be in line with the suttas.

Who would I listen to? You? Or a monk of long standing, deep practice and study who can read the suttas in the original language?

Who determine what is line with the suttas? I have seen pretty wacky interpretations of the suttas out there, even on DhammaWheel. I have seen out line with the suttas in the teachings of Mahasi Sayadaw or U Pandita.

I would read and contemplate the suttas, then I would listen/read as many Dhamma teachers as you can. Then I would decide with my own discernment what was in line and what was'nt.

The Dalai Lama is probably the most well known and respected Buddhist in the world, but if what he teaches is the Buddha's Dhamma then I'm a monkeys uncle.

People are so ready to take refuge in other people, its scary.

I am an ardent fan of Thanissaro Bhikkhu, but I do not take refuge in him. If I found some of his teachings did not follow the suttas I would not get my knickers in a twist, but I would use my discernment and leave those to one side.

It seems it is an offense to actually use ones own wisdom in understanding the Buddha's teachings. Even the Buddha said he could not give people release, how more so with any other teacher. If someone is to reach final release it is through other peoples "good friendship" and there own wisdom.

BTW Being able to read the suttas in the original pali does not make one a better teacher (or worse).

BTW Being able to read the suttas in the original pali does not make one a better teacher (or worse).

But then one who reads Pali would know one does nottake refuge. This whole business of "taking" refuge in monks is a non sequitur. That is not what this thread is about.Your nephew:

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

To practise 'awareness' is to practise 'staring', 'watching' or 'concentrating'.

Though we are not at odds with the basic issue, it would seem, as for awareness, it depends upon how you define the word.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

jcsuperstar wrote:looks like george burns... so um kinda like god i guess

God died March 9, 1996.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.