so scUM is putting together a pretty good class for 2013. Lots of Ohio kids granted the Bucks didn't go hard after alot of these guys, but they are still very good players. I have to say I am a bit worried, not so much about scUM but about the recruiting strategy. There are a ton of offers out there, but I have no feel for who we may or may not end up with, and that is very unusual. I can usually get a vibe for who is going to be on the team, and right now I have no idea.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Just because tOSU offers an Ohio kid does not mean that they are recruiting them the same way. I am not ledging or cliffing or whatever. Just stating a fact that scUM is putting together a nice class and that tOSU has a TON of offers out across the country, but does not seem to lead for a lot of uncommitted guys at this point. How many of those 13 offers that you list are "non committable" offers? Zaire and Turbisky are two and to be honest, I don't even think the Buckeyes are really recruiting those guys they are plans B and C for Bucky Hodges and JT Barrett.

I am all for going outside the bounds of Ohio for elite players, but alot of the guys that they seem focused on are guys that are not so much better than their Ohio equivalent that I am not sure that it worth letting guys like Conley, Butt and McCray head North with very little recruiting from the home school.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

furls wrote:Just because tOSU offers an Ohio kid does not mean that they are recruiting them the same way. I am not ledging or cliffing or whatever. Just stating a fact that scUM is putting together a nice class and that tOSU has a TON of offers out across the country, but does not seem to lead for a lot of uncommitted guys at this point. How many of those 13 offers that you list are "non committable" offers? Zaire and Turbisky are two and to be honest, I don't even think the Buckeyes are really recruiting those guys they are plans B and C for Bucky Hodges and JT Barrett.

I am all for going outside the bounds of Ohio for elite players, but alot of the guys that they seem focused on are guys that are not so much better than their Ohio equivalent that I am not sure that it worth letting guys like Conley, Butt and McCray head North with very little recruiting from the home school.

This is what I've been saying since day one. Love what Urban brings to OSU, but worried that we're going to lose too many Ohio guys up north and its going to change the rivalry again. And the more we allow some of these "plan B/C" guys to go up north, the more Hoke builds those relationships and eventually steals some A guys.

Looks like Gibson has committed to Urban and is just waiting to go public. Heuerman will be official as well.

And as for the Ohio thing, all 13 of those offers out there include camp invites, Urban is making sure to not fake offer too many Ohio kids, that is why McCray never got an offer and was instead told point blank the staff had concerns about his speed and that he would have to come to camp to get an offer.

The rivalry didn't tilt scUM's way back in the day because they were getting Ohio kids. It tilted because Coop was brutal on Saturday's. In fact, there probably is not a stretch in memory where the talent gap was wider, in favor of tOSU.

And we didn't tilt it back our way because we got Ohio kids. It was because of how Tress treated it 24/7/365. In those years, slowly but surely the talent gap was heading towards scUM.

Now, I am thinking we could be in line for the best of both worlds. More talent than Tress, more understanding than Coop.

pup wrote:The rivalry didn't tilt scUM's way back in the day because they were getting Ohio kids. It tilted because Coop was brutal on Saturday's. In fact, there probably is not a stretch in memory where the talent gap was wider, in favor of tOSU.

And we didn't tilt it back our way because we got Ohio kids. It was because of how Tress treated it 24/7/365. In those years, slowly but surely the talent gap was heading towards scUM.Now, I am thinking we could be in line for the best of both worlds. More talent than Tress, more understanding than Coop.

In what years? Not the Tressel years. That couldn't be much more incorrect as a statement.

pup wrote:The rivalry didn't tilt scUM's way back in the day because they were getting Ohio kids. It tilted because Coop was brutal on Saturday's. In fact, there probably is not a stretch in memory where the talent gap was wider, in favor of tOSU.

And we didn't tilt it back our way because we got Ohio kids. It was because of how Tress treated it 24/7/365. In those years, slowly but surely the talent gap was heading towards scUM.Now, I am thinking we could be in line for the best of both worlds. More talent than Tress, more understanding than Coop.

In what years? Not the Tressel years. That couldn't be much more incorrect as a statement.

The last 5? Even if they stayed stagnant, the gap closed because tOSU talent has been on the decline for the last 5 years at least. Even with Dickrod being in charge.

pup wrote:The rivalry didn't tilt scUM's way back in the day because they were getting Ohio kids. It tilted because Coop was brutal on Saturday's. In fact, there probably is not a stretch in memory where the talent gap was wider, in favor of tOSU.

And we didn't tilt it back our way because we got Ohio kids. It was because of how Tress treated it 24/7/365. In those years, slowly but surely the talent gap was heading towards scUM.Now, I am thinking we could be in line for the best of both worlds. More talent than Tress, more understanding than Coop.

In what years? Not the Tressel years. That couldn't be much more incorrect as a statement.

The last 5? Even if they stayed stagnant, the gap closed because tOSU talent has been on the decline for the last 5 years at least. Even with Dickrod being in charge.

Not true.

Again, Tressel's recruiting was trending UPWARD, not down.

Both on paper and in the program OSU was widening the gap since after the 06 season, it was not tightening whatsoever.

The gap tightened much more on the 03,04,05,06 classes under Carr than it did from 07-2011

pup wrote:The rivalry didn't tilt scUM's way back in the day because they were getting Ohio kids. It tilted because Coop was brutal on Saturday's. In fact, there probably is not a stretch in memory where the talent gap was wider, in favor of tOSU.

And we didn't tilt it back our way because we got Ohio kids. It was because of how Tress treated it 24/7/365. In those years, slowly but surely the talent gap was heading towards scUM.Now, I am thinking we could be in line for the best of both worlds. More talent than Tress, more understanding than Coop.

In what years? Not the Tressel years. That couldn't be much more incorrect as a statement.

The last 5? Even if they stayed stagnant, the gap closed because tOSU talent has been on the decline for the last 5 years at least. Even with Dickrod being in charge.

Not true.

Again, Tressel's recruiting was trending UPWARD, not down.

Both on paper and in the program OSU was widening the gap since after the 06 season, it was not tightening whatsoever.

The gap tightened much more on the 03,04,05,06 classes under Carr than it did from 07-2011

Have to agree, some of the lesser teams of the Tressel era annihilated those michigan teams. That defensive talent didn't belong on Indiana's team, let alone michigan.

And I never said anything about talent gap when I alluded to the rivalry swinging in um's favor in the 90's. We may have been more talented (we were), but they had Ohio guys who cared about the rivalry and had a huge chip on their shoulder when it came to the game.

I'm worried that some of these guys are going up there with a chip on their shoulder and will be a problem for us. And eventually these McCray and Butt type recruits allows Hoke to build a relationship that turns into a Desmond Howard or Charles Woodson type recruit heading up north.

Let me put it this way Pup, IMO the talent gap tightened considerably under Tressel after the 03 season when we set the record for most draft picks in one year (the 03 and 04 recruiting classes were absolutely horrendous), and it tightened more each year for several more seasons basically up to 06 setting up that season, after that it started trending the other way again.

Consider this season where with everything that went on and what a mess this team was not having its best players for all or some of the season, the mess of a coaching staff, they were one overthrow away from losing at home to this team.

I think the talent gap will be on clear display next season with a competant coaching staff at OSU and Michigan graduating most the best players they had left. Their class last season was great but with recruiting its 2-3 years away from genuinly helping them close the gap unless they ended up with a few superstars when they hit the field.

neoleo wrote:This is what I've been saying since day one. Love what Urban brings to OSU, but worried that we're going to lose too many Ohio guys up north and its going to change the rivalry again. And the more we allow some of these "plan B/C" guys to go up north, the more Hoke builds those relationships and eventually steals some A guys.

I'm still at a loss as of to how passing on a TE and LB is an issue, especially when you have better options at those two positions in state or as a legacy.

Butt just didn't excite the staff, just like McCray doesn't. There is an Ohio LB in Youngstown that will be a part of this class, a PA LB that they are leading for (and that they like much more) and they really liked Gaedon, but once again the old staff drug there feet and didn't ever offer, pushing him from a childhood OSU fan into Hoke's arms.

e0y2e3 wrote:I'm still at a loss as of to how passing on a TE and LB is an issue, especially when you have better options at those two positions in state or as a legacy.

Butt just didn't excite the staff, just like McCray doesn't. There is an Ohio LB in Youngstown that will be a part of this class, a PA LB that they are leading for (and that they like much more) and they really liked Gaedon, but once again the old staff drug there feet and didn't ever offer, pushing him from a childhood OSU fan into Hoke's arms.

I think for most the issue isn't these players as much as it is the thought of UM making inroads in OH moving forward. I'm less concerned than most, but damned if it still doesn't burn a bit to see so many Ohioans going to AA to play, whether you wanted them or not, lol.

JCoz wrote:Let me put it this way Pup, IMO the talent gap tightened considerably under Tressel after the 03 season when we set the record for most draft picks in one year (the 03 and 04 recruiting classes were absolutely horrendous), and it tightened more each year for several more seasons basically up to 06 setting up that season, after that it started trending the other way again.

Consider this season where with everything that went on and what a mess this team was not having its best players for all or some of the season, the mess of a coaching staff, they were one overthrow away from losing at home to this team.

I think the talent gap will be on clear display next season with a competant coaching staff at OSU and Michigan graduating most the best players they had left. Their class last season was great but with recruiting its 2-3 years away from genuinly helping them close the gap unless they ended up with a few superstars when they hit the field.

I can buy this. Rich Rod did more damage to them then I previously suggested. For sure.

As I said earlier, my point was more to the fact that to my eyes tOSU recruiting has gone down steadily under The Vest. Or at best leveled off. But in no way was the talent on the field anywhere near what it was under Cooper. And I believe the talent under Cooper was as good as it was/is anywhere in the country. And one season of competent coaching lead to a NC.

I think now you have a chance at returning to that level of talent. With greatly improved coaching during the week and a coach that will have you ready to go on Saturday.

Coop and staff - Great recruiter, Good Sunday-Friday, Bad SaturdayTress and staff- Good recruiter, Bad Sunday-Friday, Great SaturdayUrban and staff- Great recruiter, Great Sunday-Friday, Good Saturday

This means, even by "giving up on some Ohio kids"...they are going to be just fine. You need those national talent type guys to win National Titles. Even if it bites you in the ass occasionally with some local kid getting his revenge.

Agreed pup. Like I said above to e0, though I agree that it isn't the issue some believe it to be, it just will always suck watching Ohio kids commit to UM In a way i could never feel for them going to state, whisky, PSU or Nebraska. Even if you don't want them.

Like I said, the staff didn't want two Ohio kids and the previous staff appears to have blown the two we wanted. FWIW: there is legit talk from people well connected to Dymonte that we can flip him. But people close to him had it at 90% not too long ago and are now down to 60%. THAT is a FUCK UP.

Like I said, the staff didn't want two Ohio kids and the previous staff appears to have blown the two we wanted. FWIW: there is legit talk from people well connected to Dymonte that we can flip him. But people close to him had it at 90% not too long ago and are now down to 60%. THAT is a FUCK UP.

I don't understand the last part. We can flip him but our chances of doing that have recently gone down? Wonder why that would be the case?

pup wrote:This means, even by "giving up on some Ohio kids"...they are going to be just fine. You need those national talent type guys to win National Titles. Even if it bites you in the ass occasionally with some local kid getting his revenge.

I get what you're saying and I guess I can live with that. Like I said before, I love what Urban brings, but JCoz summed up my thoughts pretty well with this:

JCoz wrote:Agreed pup. Like I said above to e0, though I agree that it isn't the issue some believe it to be, it just will always suck watching Ohio kids commit to UM In a way i could never feel for them going to state, whisky, PSU or Nebraska. Even if you don't want them.

Like I said, the staff didn't want two Ohio kids and the previous staff appears to have blown the two we wanted. FWIW: there is legit talk from people well connected to Dymonte that we can flip him. But people close to him had it at 90% not too long ago and are now down to 60%. THAT is a FUCK UP.

I don't understand the last part. We can flip him but our chances of doing that have recently gone down? Wonder why that would be the case?

Because Mattison is a good recruiter and has made Dymonte his #1 priority. It still all goes back to the Fickel led staff (and Bollman specifically) blowing this. Mattison is just working like hell to leave no room for Urban to squeeze in.

pup wrote:This means, even by "giving up on some Ohio kids"...they are going to be just fine. You need those national talent type guys to win National Titles. Even if it bites you in the ass occasionally with some local kid getting his revenge.

I get what you're saying and I guess I can live with that. Like I said before, I love what Urban brings, but JCoz summed up my thoughts pretty well with this:

JCoz wrote:Agreed pup. Like I said above to e0, though I agree that it isn't the issue some believe it to be, it just will always suck watching Ohio kids commit to UM In a way i could never feel for them going to state, whisky, PSU or Nebraska. Even if you don't want them.

Guess that's just a part of the rivalry.

Wouldn't you rather they had Ohio kids we don't want than National kids we do?

pup wrote:This means, even by "giving up on some Ohio kids"...they are going to be just fine. You need those national talent type guys to win National Titles. Even if it bites you in the ass occasionally with some local kid getting his revenge.

I get what you're saying and I guess I can live with that. Like I said before, I love what Urban brings, but JCoz summed up my thoughts pretty well with this:

JCoz wrote:Agreed pup. Like I said above to e0, though I agree that it isn't the issue some believe it to be, it just will always suck watching Ohio kids commit to UM In a way i could never feel for them going to state, whisky, PSU or Nebraska. Even if you don't want them.

Guess that's just a part of the rivalry.

Wouldn't you rather they had Ohio kids we don't want than National kids we do?

I'd much rather them have Illinois, PA, MI, or ID kids we dont want than national kids we do.

But seriously, wrong person to talk to, I don't care beyond "it sucks to watch OH kids play for the skunkbears".

pup wrote:This means, even by "giving up on some Ohio kids"...they are going to be just fine. You need those national talent type guys to win National Titles. Even if it bites you in the ass occasionally with some local kid getting his revenge.

I get what you're saying and I guess I can live with that. Like I said before, I love what Urban brings, but JCoz summed up my thoughts pretty well with this:

JCoz wrote:Agreed pup. Like I said above to e0, though I agree that it isn't the issue some believe it to be, it just will always suck watching Ohio kids commit to UM In a way i could never feel for them going to state, whisky, PSU or Nebraska. Even if you don't want them.

Guess that's just a part of the rivalry.

Wouldn't you rather they had Ohio kids we don't want than National kids we do?

I'd much rather them have Illinois, PA, MI, or ID kids we dont want than national kids we do.

But seriously, wrong person to talk to, I don't care beyond "it sucks to watch OH kids play for the skunkbears".

This is pretty much what I'm saying too. I'm with you Pup, I love what Urban brings to this program nationally.

Of course I'll take the elite national recruit and I'll take him over anybody. We all agree on that. The only point I'm adding that's different from JCoz's stance is this: What I don't want to see is us missing out on a few of those national elite guys and then "settling" for plan B national recruits because the plan B Ohio guys are already up north. I'll take a slightly lower rated Ohio guy over a similarly rated national guy every time. I don't want a bunch of Reggie Germanys at OSU and a bunch of Lil Danes and A.J. Hawks up north.

Call me crazy if you want. And like JCoz said already, if they weren't going up north it wouldn't even be a big deal to me.

I think it will be a continuing issue (I wouldn't neccessarily call it a problem) Because of the differing methods of recruiting where Meyer issues a lot of uncommitable offers and Michigan is not seemingly doing that to the same extent. An issue that Meyer is dealing with and will continue to deal with is the trend of players commiting earlier and earlier in the process. Where over the past 10 years (if he was here) he might have been able to slow play those Plan B kids and come back to them after getting a good feel for the National kids, this has now sped up quite a bit.

It will always be a juggling act with this, and Michigan will be playing a high risk game taking borderline OH Juniors too.

Not something I'm going to lose any sleep over at this point, afterall we'll mostly be talking about PLan B kids here. But I do think this is a bit more permanent of a balancing act and not a 2 year thing. Brady and Co are serious about recruiting OH.

We are losing more plan A kids this year then we will in the future to UM was my point.

Agree completely on the plan Bs.

But Smith, Gedeon, Dymonte, those are A caliber kids and in any other year the only one that may have been lost is Smith. Urban is being careful with his half offers in Ohio, doesn't want to issue too many and start pissing off coaches.

I just read an interview and the kid was pretty damn impressive with his responses.

Mentor's been on TV a lot. Probably you can get some dvd. Kid is lanky, runs well, and makes it happen in a gimmick 4 - 5 WR offense. Hard to project him because he doesn't have that "awe hell real? he did that? " athletic ability of like a Joe Pickens ( to see if Gnati is alive) but you almost have to offer him & see what happens. Else Hoke will.

I just read an interview and the kid was pretty damn impressive with his responses.

Mentor's been on TV a lot. Probably you can get some dvd. Kid is lanky, runs well, and makes it happen in a gimmick 4 - 5 WR offense. Hard to project him because he doesn't have that "awe hell real? he did that? " athletic ability of like a Joe Pickens ( to see if Gnati is alive) but you almost have to offer him & see what happens. Else Hoke will.

I just read an interview and the kid was pretty damn impressive with his responses.

Mentor's been on TV a lot. Probably you can get some dvd. Kid is lanky, runs well, and makes it happen in a gimmick 4 - 5 WR offense. Hard to project him because he doesn't have that "awe hell real? he did that? " athletic ability of like a Joe Pickens ( to see if Gnati is alive) but you almost have to offer him & see what happens. Else Hoke will.

I like him, and I especially like him if you are going to take one of Bailey, Barrett, or Zaire to pair with him.

Zaire to ND. Another Plan B guy goes elsewhere. Turbisky is really more of a plan C guy. Hopefully Meyer can land Bailey or Barrett, both are national prospects with offer lists a mile long.

I am starting to get a little worried as we saw two other guys that were potentially huge parts of the 2013 class go elsewhere as well Bivin (Plan A) and McGovern (Plan B) both picked ND as well. tOSU was thought to be doing well with those two. OSU's only Plan A tackle still on the board is Ethan Pocic. tOSU is thought to lead for him, but who knows.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

And I am going to illegally post this for a day or two "1- My feeling on Zaire was that he did not have a commitable offer, and in fact his offer came from the previous staff, and as we have learned, I don't think there's too much confidence from Urban in anything the previous staff did. On the field. Or in recruiting. Urban certainly was not going to go off Bollman or Siciliano's recommendations. Nor would any OSU fan want him to. Waiting on Zaire was the absolute right call. Same with McCray. If they aren't 100%, they won't go on a kid. "

I just read an interview and the kid was pretty damn impressive with his responses.

Mentor's been on TV a lot. Probably you can get some dvd. Kid is lanky, runs well, and makes it happen in a gimmick 4 - 5 WR offense. Hard to project him because he doesn't have that "awe hell real? he did that? " athletic ability of like a Joe Pickens ( to see if Gnati is alive) but you almost have to offer him & see what happens. Else Hoke will.

I just read an interview and the kid was pretty damn impressive with his responses.

Mentor's been on TV a lot. Probably you can get some dvd. Kid is lanky, runs well, and makes it happen in a gimmick 4 - 5 WR offense. Hard to project him because he doesn't have that "awe hell real? he did that? " athletic ability of like a Joe Pickens ( to see if Gnati is alive) but you almost have to offer him & see what happens. Else Hoke will.

He's no Scott Mutryn, thats for sure. Ragonesque, perhaps, but not Scott Mutryn.

e0y2e3 wrote:And I am going to illegally post this for a day or two "1- My feeling on Zaire was that he did not have a commitable offer, and in fact his offer came from the previous staff, and as we have learned, I don't think there's too much confidence from Urban in anything the previous staff did. On the field. Or in recruiting. Urban certainly was not going to go off Bollman or Siciliano's recommendations. Nor would any OSU fan want him to. Waiting on Zaire was the absolute right call. Same with McCray. If they aren't 100%, they won't go on a kid. "

That is per Greene.

I think Urban has had plenty of time to evaluate and this has nothing to do with the previous staff. He saw him, thought he wasn't a guy worth a commitable offer over some other guys he liked,wanted him to compete against guys he thought we in Zaire's league at OSU's camp.

I don't think Urban is sweating it. I'm not saying he's right or wrong.

But the junk about not trusting previous staff and sciliano...Is just filler. Meyer has offered some QBs himself that got the same treatment, albeit with a more personal touch.

I don't think there is any question at all that he didn't have a commitable offer. Neitherdo about 5 other QB's we are after. I just don't think he thought Zaire was anything special, simple as that.

I just read an interview and the kid was pretty damn impressive with his responses.

Mentor's been on TV a lot. Probably you can get some dvd. Kid is lanky, runs well, and makes it happen in a gimmick 4 - 5 WR offense. Hard to project him because he doesn't have that "awe hell real? he did that? " athletic ability of like a Joe Pickens ( to see if Gnati is alive) but you almost have to offer him & see what happens. Else Hoke will.

Barrett is the #1 (depending on service) dual threat QB in the country. He just left OSU today and had a good visit. He is promising a summer return.

Like I said, I am not flipping out, but I am seeing a lot of pretty nice players that were OSU's to lose end up elsewhere. If we land some guys of greater talent than of course it was a good call, if not, then we have problems. We are playing a dangerous game if we are counting on this many national guys while letting solid players go elsewhere.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.