Smithy you pulled the same shite with stats last season and wanted Burchill sacked and he pulled a rabbit out the hat and got us to 8th place, ffs give him a decent chance and let us get out of this 2 managers a season pish we go through each season.

I honestly think you just want him punted because he isn't starting White.

From the first 9 games I'd say an acceptable points tally would be something like 12. Anything less would be quite disappointing but the most we can get is now 10, which almost certainly won't happen. Yesterday's match objective and tactical style was a complete joke, and his comment about restricting Rangers to 5 attempts at target is infuriating, comical and borderline disgraceful. We're playing a team in the same division as us, not Barcelona.

Cole needs dropped, he's a liability and not captains material in a million years. I like Georgiev, I think he's very creative in the middle of the park and is capable of linking play with the centre of attack - this is what we've lacked the most for a very long time. Up front we need to start sheerin playing just behind Shags. Will Burchill go for it? Nope, he's too blind to see it. Maybe he should stick to tweeting pictures of himself wearing Celtic tops, so his job can be done by someone who's taking it seriously.

Liviforever wrote:Smithy you pulled the same shite with stats last season and wanted Burchill sacked and he pulled a rabbit out the hat and got us to 8th place, ffs give him a decent chance and let us get out of this 2 managers a season pish we go through each season.

I honestly think you just want him punted because he isn't starting White.

I just want to win games mate and I love stats as you can see by my previous posts

Yes of course I feel White should start more as my stats would point that out as well as my eyes.

I also feel that Sheerin should start with him adverts and stats prove

I also feel that we should have more points on the board too eyes and stats

Please don't be ridiculous in thinking I want us to get beat to rove my points, I think my point is already proven.that Burchill doesn't warrant all the faith that you seem to be putting in him.

But as the old line goes.... Why let the facts get in the way of someone's opinion

Lexi Collector wrote:From the first 9 games I'd say an acceptable points tally would be something like 12. Anything less would be quite disappointing but the most we can get is now 10, which almost certainly won't happen. Yesterday's match objective and tactical style was a complete joke, and his comment about restricting Rangers to 5 attempts at target is infuriating, comical and borderline disgraceful. We're playing a team in the same division as us, not Barcelona.

Cole needs dropped, he's a liability and not captains material in a million years. I like Georgiev, I think he's very creative in the middle of the park and is capable of linking play with the centre of attack - this is what we've lacked the most for a very long time. Up front we need to start sheerin playing just behind Shags. Will Burchill go for it? Nope, he's too blind to see it. Maybe he should stick to tweeting pictures of himself wearing Celtic tops, so his job can be done by someone who's taking it seriously.

Liviforever wrote:Smithy you pulled the same shite with stats last season and wanted Burchill sacked and he pulled a rabbit out the hat and got us to 8th place, ffs give him a decent chance and let us get out of this 2 managers a season pish we go through each season.

I honestly think you just want him punted because he isn't starting White.

he only just beat Mglynn in the points stats that I did remember.

Burchill has a long way to go to convince me he is the man for the job......I dont think I'm alone

Last edited by Smithy on Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total

Liviforever wrote:Smithy you pulled the same shite with stats last season and wanted Burchill sacked and he pulled a rabbit out the hat and got us to 8th place, ffs give him a decent chance and let us get out of this 2 managers a season pish we go through each season.

I honestly think you just want him punted because he isn't starting White.

I just want to win games mate and I love stats as you can see by my previous posts

Yes of course I feel White should start more as my stats would point that out as well as my eyes.

I also feel that Sheerin should start with him as my eyes and stats prove

I also feel that we should have more points on the board too as my eyes and stats prove

Please don't be ridiculous in thinking I want us to get beat to prove my points, I think my point is already proven.that Burchill doesn't warrant all the faith that you seem to be putting in him.

But as the old saying goes.... Why let the facts get in the way of someone's opinion

Last edited by Smithy on Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

Lexi Collector wrote:From the first 9 games I'd say an acceptable points tally would be something like 12. Anything less would be quite disappointing but the most we can get is now 10, which almost certainly won't happen. Yesterday's match objective and tactical style was a complete joke, and his comment about restricting Rangers to 5 attempts at target is infuriating, comical and borderline disgraceful. We're playing a team in the same division as us, not Barcelona.

Cole needs dropped, he's a liability and not captains material in a million years. I like Georgiev, I think he's very creative in the middle of the park and is capable of linking play with the centre of attack - this is what we've lacked the most for a very long time. Up front we need to start sheerin playing just behind Shags. Will Burchill go for it? Nope, he's too blind to see it. Maybe he should stick to tweeting pictures of himself wearing Celtic tops, so his job can be done by someone who's taking it seriously.

If we'd beaten Raith we'd prob have got between 10 and 12 points but from that first game things just didn't go for us, yes I know you can only get away with excuses for so long but I really believe it has been small margins in games and it'll come good.

Cole has been inconsistent, I was wanting him playing in midfield to start with, he didn't have a good game against Raith playing a defending role, wasn't up to much against QoS, then had a couple of good games against St Mirren (albeit his losing possession cost us a goal but he had a good game after that).Looked like he had a couple of bad challenges on Sat and his 2nd lead to their opening goal,so agree with you about dropping him, I'd like Faria starting instead of him.

Would love to see White and Sheerin paired up from the start, been bursting to see that for weeks since I first saw Sheerin against Raith I thought he'd be ideal as a target man with White, and from what I saw against Morton they're perfect for one another, both linking up well.

Liviforever wrote:Smithy you pulled the same shite with stats last season and wanted Burchill sacked and he pulled a rabbit out the hat and got us to 8th place, ffs give him a decent chance and let us get out of this 2 managers a season pish we go through each season.

I honestly think you just want him punted because he isn't starting White.

I just want to win games mate and I love stats as you can see by my previous posts

Yes of course I feel White should start more as my stats would point that out as well as my eyes.

I also feel that Sheerin should start with him as my eyes and stats prove

I also feel that we should have more points on the board too as my eyes and stats prove

Please don't be ridiculous in thinking I want us to get beat to prove my points, I think my point is already proven.that Burchill doesn't warrant all the faith that you seem to be putting in him.

But as the old lsaying goes.... Why let the facts get in the way of someone's opinion

As I've said umpteen times 'facts' can be made to support any argument that suits you, but they don't tell a true story. Bollan's sacking didn't go down well with many Livi fans but if you just stick to facts on his record that season then it wasn't great either. He was on a bad run of defeats but I'd have given him more time too.

Not disagreeing with you on White and Sheerin, I prob posted on here first out of anyone I'd like to see that. Just want to stick with Burchill though and am sick of us sacking managers every season. He's a young manager and will obv make mistakes, and do things that annoy us at times but he managed to get us out of the shite last season so he's proven he can get it right too. I'm just willing to give him time to come good and don't want to continue with this cycle Livi are in of going through 2 managers a season.

I don't believe we're in a position to be talking about what is an ACCEPTABLE points total, with our budget and pre season problems off the park impacting on building a squad I think it's ridiculous to have such expectations that would want a managers sacked if they aren't met.

I'd hoped for a win away to Raith as we'd beaten them quite easily twice last season but it didn't work out after the Sives penalty, didn't expect anything from QoS or Falkirk games at home, or the Sevco away, and after the St Mirren cup game had a feeling we'd only get a draw with it being a double header, thought we'd beat Morton at home but again a total mare after Gordon's red card. Would think we can beat Alloa away and get at least a draw against Dumbrton (though they've pulled off some good results so no guarantee we'll get anything as it'll be a tough game) so about 10 or 11 is what I'd have thought we'd get as a reasonable points tally.

I'm a pretty optimistic guy and was hoping for us being 5th or 6th come the end of the season but you and Lexi must've looking for 3rd or 4th going by your expectations.

Oops forgot about Hibs, head says we'll lose heart says a draw, have to go with my head though if we're talking realistic points tally so still 10 or 11 points from the first 9 games.

Looking at the expectations thread 7th place is what most thought we'd finish, that still is achievable, think my 5th place is out the window but i'd still be happy with 7th and hope we can improve on that for the next again season.

”I just want to win games mate and I love stats as you can see by my previous posts

Yes of course I feel White should start more as my stats would point that out as well as my eyes.

I also feel that Sheerin should start with him as my eyes and stats prove

I also feel that we should have more points on the board too as my eyes and stats prove

Please don't be ridiculous in thinking I want us to get beat to prove my points, I think my point is already proven.that Burchill doesn't warrant all the faith that you seem to be putting in him.

But as the old lsaying goes.... Why let the facts get in the way of someone's opinion

Smithy perhaps being that stats are your thing could you point out when White scores his goals just this season will be fine.The reason i ask is actually agree with Burchill bringing White off the bench as i believe he only scores or creates late in games .

Bertie Bassett wrote:We obviously were looking to win all the games we have played this season(apart from yesterday which even the management seemed to right off - which IMO is Burchill's biggest error so far) but you know as well as anyone that it doesn't always work out as you planned or as expected. We still could win 2 of the games you have deemed winnable.

But now that I know your expectation level exceeded our ability from before a ball was kicked I'll stop contributing to this thread.

what is your acceptable points total Bertie for the first quarter?

Given the circumstances (embargo, turnover of players, inherited suspensions) - IMO we'd have done very well to get 10 points.

Adding in the factors that LF mentions (appalling refereeing decisions & injuries) then 7 would be reasonable.

Right now I'd be more than happy to be above Alloa at the end of the first quarter.

It is far too early to be considering a change in manager. There is a fair bit of potential in the side, we still have a reasonable core from the tail end of last season but have yet to get a consistent team selection.

Fair play to LF Bertie and Lexi for saying what you expected points wise,it appears we all thought after nine games we would be above ten.

I maybe have had a higher expectation but feel that if we get 7 we will be doing well now.

I just got so annoyed on Saturday when watching with my own eyes saw that Rangers were not having the best of games and I felt we could have got something out of the game by bringing Sheerin and White on with 30 mins to go and we would have given them somethings think about.That decision to replace like for like was so bad and proved to me that Lexi is correct in saying our Manager is a shitebag.

Sitting watching it unfold before my eyes and his comments afterwards about hie pleased he was with a 3 nil defeat showed me he is not the man to lead us forward ,thought it last year and Saturday confirmed it.

Sorry to be so blunt and would loved to be proved wrong,but if you see a fire starting surely you don't wait until it's a full blown inferno before starting to put it out.

The fire has well and truly started its early days but action needs to be taken to stop the inferno.

Smithy wrote:Edward Snowdon correct this season so maybe just bring him on on extra time mate lol

Going by your theory it's exactly why he should have been brought on at Ibrox.

Overall stats and my eyes tell me he is very much a starting player for his presence link up play, defensive work and his goals.

White brings much more to the party than just goals.

I asked for stats as you so much like to band about but instead a sarcastic comment about bringing him on in extra time lol . I will assume then i am correct and WHite has only scored or had a assist late on so so i agree with Burchill thats when id bring him on. Oh yes and the Big man is so good at holding up the ball what happened to the 2nd goal against Morton ? Ball played into his feet on the halfway line defender wins it and 2 passes goal to them. Sheerin and Buchanon should be given a chance Whites had plenty and never convinced me he is a starter.

That's the things about stats/facts, they are only telling a certain thing, what time White scored but there could be more read into it looking at when Sheerin came on to influence the game linking up with White.

You're correct about White scoring his goals late on in games this season ES but he started in two of those games and was a HT sub in the other, what's more noticeable is he scored in all 3 of those games after Sheerin came on as a sub for Buchanan. who's to say he wouldn't have scored earlier if both him and Sheerin started games.

I really thought White & Buchanan would link up well as our front two (big man/wee man duo) but they've played together from the start of a few games and it just hasn't worked for either scoring goals, is only after Sheerin came on for Buchanan that White has scored.

I'd really like to see White and Sheerin starting a few games to see how they get on.

Stats are a good indicator of what is going on, it's up to the individual fan and management how they choose to see it and use it or just ignore it.

Some other interesting facts from our first ten games this season

Let's look at our Forwards and measure how many goals they have scored from outfield play this season by looking at how many starts, how many mins on the park,how many goals they scored and finally measuring that by seeing how many mins it has taken them to achieve I GOAL and % chance of scoring from starts

I think as fans we all would like to see us score more and my eyes and stats tell me after ten games is that we have a better % chance of scoring in outfield play if we give Sheerin White and Mullen some more time on the park.

Im not saying Hippo shouldn't start as he plays on the wing, Mullen plays there too but has contributed more than Hippo in the goal stakes,it really only has been Buchanan White and Sheerin that have played right up top this season.

The stats would back up your feeling LF that White and Sheerin should be given a go up front for a good run of games rather than Buchanan who has a very poor goal ratio compared to White and Sheerin.

I understand anyone can take the stats and make an argument based on their individual likes of a player or not, some would say because I like White so I always favour him,others may say ES doesn't rate White so he uses the stats to prove why he should only play at the end of games. It's up to every individual to either try to suit their own agenda or use the stats to help the team.

The point of this exercise is trying to find out how we can score more goals and who has the best % chance of getting them,which means we may have to make changes in formation and players.

It's clear to me that for some reason recently White and Sheerin are not getting a fair crack of game time as White has only played 53 mins out of the last four games and Sheerin has only played 11 mins. What's annoying is that White has scored 2 goals ,albeit one was judged to be offside, and had 1 assist in this time.Sheerin has scored 1 goal in the limited time he has been afforded on the park and yet they have received the least game time apart from Glen who hasn't scored at all.

Also If the stats is not enough to convince some, why don't we use our eyes ?

Pleas have a look at the two videos of goals scored this season ,one by White v Clyde and the other by Sheerin v Morton and the goals and link up play between both players is top drawer stuff.

These two big guys will get us goals in this very physical league.

Anyone who wants us to score goals and have a chance of winning games must be asking the question,WHY is the manager not giving Sheerin and White more game time when we need goals and points?

Last edited by Smithy on Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:55 am; edited 2 times in total

I dont think Burchill will play 2 up top against any of the top 4/5 teams he is on a sticky wicket and managers then just play for a point.Alos i am not blaming any of our strikers for poor score ratios i have said earlier in the season when the squad was assembled its unbalanced our midfield has no creativity and we dont have any wingers ! We play Glen Hippo Mullen on the wide yet none are wingers with that in mind and no creative central midfielder we create very few decent opportunities.

Edward snowdon wrote:I dont think Burchill will play 2 up top against any of the top 4/5 teams he is on a sticky wicket and managers then just play for a point.Alos i am not blaming any of our strikers for poor score ratios i have said earlier in the season when the squad was assembled its unbalanced our midfield has no creativity and we dont have any wingers ! We play Glen Hippo Mullen on the wide yet none are wingers with that in mind and no creative central midfielder we create very few decent opportunities.

But maybe he should as we're getting zero as it is.

Totally agree with you mate it's unbalanced, we needed width and a better midfield .

We have decent forwards and a decent defence but very lightweight in midfield.

I think we could look at all aspects of the team to why we've not gotten the points and personally I'm disappointed with 1 point in 6 games. I would have hoped for about 7 points by now, 3 points against Morton, 3 points against Raith and 1 point against Queens.

As it went, we got bugger all from those games and a point away to the St Midden.

That leaves us with what has went wrong.

Defensively, we not played with a settled back 4 due to injuries and suspensions. IMO opinion our best 4 at the back is Millen RB, Gallagher, Gordon, Longridge LB. We've seen that back 4 once or twice, the one time we properly saw it, we got Gordon sent off and Longridge injured.

We've also not had a settled midfield, I think that's been down to injury again with Hippo being used too often at left back and the insistance of playing Cole in midfield. IMO if we are playing 5 in Midfield, I'd like to see Hippo LW, Pittman, Gibbon, Faria, Mullen RW. If its 4, then Faria or Gibbon drop to the bench.

This leads us to the inconsitant attack. I don't think Burchill has worked out what his preferred starters are. I personally think that we could use a combination of the 3 main strikers in roles, dependant on formation. I like Buchanan as the lone striker due to his workrate off the ball, pace and ability to hold up the ball, with him up front, it means that we are less likely to pump high balls to him in the lone striker role.

If we are playing 2 up front, I like the White / Sheerin partnership, they both seem to work well with each other.

The real reason we've struggled is down to a lack of a consistant lineup due to injuries, suspension and there is a lack of match fitness down to not having as shorter pre-season due to the embargo.

Tomorrow, I'd be shocked if we took anything off of Hibs, but I would hope and expect us to garner a minimum of 4 points off of Dumbarton and Alloa in the coming weeks.

Yeah our defence is prob the area that has suffered the most from injuries and suspensions, shame really as we've two of the best CB's in the league but they've rarely played together in that position.

Can't see Burchill playing 2 up front against Hibs but he really shouldn't be going 1 up front against the likes of Falkirk, and not even sure who the 4th best team is as it sure as hell aint Morton who are sitting 4th and Raith at 5th aint a team we should be crapping it against either. Outside Sevco and Hibs there isn't any team we should be setting up to frustrate and play for a draw, and even Hibs aint that great as they lost to Dumbarton so don't really see why we should play them the same way we did Sevco.

I felt the same about Hippo last season, wanting him to get a run of games and not just the odd start and sub appearance, Sheerin just looks like he could link up well with White, I'd even be happy to see him playing alongside Buchanan but I think White looked better playing with Sheerin even though they lacked a bit of understanding due to not getting enough time on the park together. White knocked a ball down and Sheerin was too close to him and didn't anticipate where the knock down was going. That would change once they had a few games together.

Feel like a broken record here but just have a gut feeling they would score a right few goals playing together. Could be our version of Hartson & Sutton.