Thursday, 30 April 2009

Rule 17, and the Decisions arising from it, deals with most aspects concerning the flagstick. I recommend that all golfers read this Rule for themselves, but in this blog I am going to highlight the most salient points;

The first one is one that in my experience surprises many players. The flagstick may be attended, removed or held up before making a stroke from anywhere on the course. But I recommend that you don’t ask for it to be attended if you are playing to a putting green that is 150 yards away, as you may soon run out of people to play with! (Rule 17-1).

If a competitor sees that a ball is going to hit a flagstick that has been removed, typically when it is lying on the putting green beside the hole, they may move it to avoid the ball striking it, without incurring a penalty (Decision 17-1/7). Before 1st January 2008 such an action incurred a penalty of one stroke. (Edit: This Decision was withdrawn when the principle was included in Rule 24-1 in January 2012.)

If an unattended flagstick is still in the hole when a player makes a stroke, no-one may remove it while a ball is in motion if doing so might influence the movement of the ball (Rule 17-2). Breach of this Rule incurs the general penalty**.

Here's one that not many people know. Anyone standing close to the flagstick (i.e. within reach of it) is deemed to be attending it, even if the player making the stroke has not authorised them to do so. So, when playing a stroke be very careful and ask anyone standing close to the flagstick to move away, or you could incur the general penalty** if your ball strikes it, even though you may have been playing from off the green (Decision 17-1/1).

There is nothing in the Rules stipulating where a player must stand when attending the flagstick (Decision 17-1/4).

A player may hold the flagstick with one hand and tap their ball into the hole with the other. But they should make sure that they remove the flagstick so that their ball does not strike it (Decision 17-1/5.) and they may not use it for assistance.

If a ball strikes the flagstick, while it is being attended, the player making the stroke incurs a general penalty** (Rule 17-3). This may seem unfair as it could be due to the carelessness of the person attending the flagstick for you, but that is the Rule. However, if a fellow competitor, or opponent, purposely allows a ball to hit the flagstick, so that the player will incur a penalty, then they are disqualified under Rule 1-2 for influencing the movement of the ball.

If your ball is on the putting green you should always ask for the flagstick to be attended, because if your ball hits the flagstick you incur the general penalty** (Rule 17-3).

The flag is part of the flagstick and the same rulings apply if a ball hits the flag (Decision 17-3/5).

Be extremely careful if your ball comes to rest against the flagstick. Rule 17-4 states that when you remove the flagstick, the ball must fall into the hole. If a player picks up their ball before it has completely dropped below the level of the lip of the hole they incur a penalty of one stroke, under Rule 18-2, and must place it back on the lip of the hole.

When a player is making a stroke they may leave the flagstick positioned as it is or centre it in the hole, but they may not adjust it to a more favourable position than centred (Decision 17/4).

**The general penalty in stroke play is two strokes and in match play is loss of hole.

Please let me know if you have any other questions regarding the flagstick.

129 comments:

I'm not going to speculate as to the reasons behind Rule 17, but I can give you a little history about the changes to it;

The Flagstick:First mention 1875, but certainly in use before then.

1875 either party may have the flagstick removed when approaching the hole. This stayed in force until 1956.

1882 when a ball is within 20 yds of the hole, the flagstick must be removed (stroke play) - 1899 rules included a one stroke penalty for a breach. No penalty in match play for hitting the flagstick, attended or not.

R&A 1888 when a ball rests against the flagstick, the stick may be removed.

1902 Loss of hole for striking a flagstick that had been removed by player's own side. In stroke play, the flagstick must be removed before playing when ball from within 20 yards, penalty 1 stroke.

1908 Stroke play, rule changed to 2 strokes penalty for hitting the flagstick or a person standing at the hole. 1912 word change to read 'strikes, or is stopped by...'

1933 loss of hole for striking a flagstick removed or held by the player's own side - if held or removed by opponents, then THEY lost the hole. Stroke play rule unchanged.

The 1952 code restated that striking an unattended flagstick from anywhere carried no penalty in match play, or from over 20 yards from the hole in stroke play. Striking the flagstick or the person attending it from within 20 yards carried a 2 stroke penalty.

1956 Rule was rewritten. Now the responsibilities and penalties fell to the player, and match and stroke play were treated the same. Two strokes or loss of hole if the player's ball struck the flagstick or the person attending it. No penalty for striking an unattended flagstick from any distance.

1968 penalty of loss of hole or 2 strokes for hitting an unattended flagstick with stroke from the putting green.

It has always been the case that the flagstick can be removed when a ball is at rest against it and should the ball fall in, it is considered holed.

1960 In adjusting the flagstick, the player may leave it at whatever angle it is found at, or set it upright. He cannot tilt the stick to his advantage (decision, 1956).

After holing a chip, I waited to retrieve my ball until all were on the green. When I reached the pin, I pulled the flag out and then removed my ball. One of the persons in the group said that I violated a golf rule by not removing my ball prior to removing the flag. Is that true?

In a game last week my foursome was putting on a par 4 and the flagstick was out. One of the players in the foursome we were playing against behind us hit from the tee box into us and hit the flagstick on the green which stopped his ball. They hit an easy eagle putt and ended up winning because of this hole. Is this not a 2 stroke penalty???

"A player, not believing he can reach the green which is occupied by the preceding match or group, plays his second shot at a par-5 hole and the ball rolls onto the green and strikes the flagstick which has been removed from the hole and placed on the ground by someone in the preceding match or group.

A. No penalty is incurred. Rule 17-3a is not applicable. It applies only when the flagstick has been removed with the player's authority or prior knowledge by someone in the player's match or group."

Here's a good one for you: I was playing early this morning while all the grounds crew were busy, and as my ball lay on the fringe a groundskeeper cut a new hole in the green - a few feet closer to my ball than previously - and placed the flagstick in it. How do I proceed in this unusual situation? Don't know if it's covered anywhere in the Rules.

I suspect that you were playing a casual round of golf when this happened, in which case I suggest that the player should be permitted to continue play of the hole and accept his good luck. It is a different matter if it was during play of a stroke play competition Part of the answer to Decision 33-2b/1 confirms that when a hole is relocated during a round in stroke play;

"If this was authorized by the Committee, the round should be declared null and void. In stroke play, the Committee is prohibited from relocating a hole and from moving tee-markers except as provided in the Exception and Note to Rule 33-2b or in circumstances such as those in Decisions 25-1b/4 or 33-2b/1.5.

If this was done without the authority or sanction of the Committee, generally the round should be declared null and void. However, if the course has not been altered significantly and no competitor has been given an undue advantage or disadvantage, the Committee would be justified in letting the round stand."

Please tell me the rule re: moving the flagstick which is lying on the putting green, as a putted ball is heading towards it. Also,what if a ball is behind the hole and someone marks it while the other player's putt is in motion. Thank you for clearing this up.

Since January 2008, players are permitted to move a flagstick that is attended, removed or held up if they think that a ball in motion might strike it (Rule 24-1).

However, a player is not permitted to move a ball in the circumstances that you describe in the second part of your question, (Rule 1-2); the penalty is two strokes in stroke play and loss of hole in match play.

Interesting case. What happens when after the putt has been made the attendant in the course of removing the flag accidnetally pulls the cup out of the ground? How does this stroke count if the ball strikes the partially removed cup?

This situation is covered by Decision 17/8;Q. A player played a stroke from the putting green. The ball struck the hole-liner, which had stuck to the bottom of the flagstick and had come out of the hole when the person attending the flagstick removed the flagstick. Is there any penalty?

A. No. A hole-liner is an outside agency. Accordingly, if the hole-liner was moving when the ball struck it, the stroke is canceled and the ball must be replaced — Rule 19-1b. If the hole-liner was not moving, the ball must be played as it lies — Rule 19-1. In case of doubt, the ball must be played as it lies.

Barry, can I ask, if the flagstick is removed as instructed by my playing partner and placed off the green and my partners putt has ran past the hole and off the green and hits the flag as it lay on the ground. What is the ruling?? I understand if it's on the playing surface he would incur a 2 stroke penalty however I'm unsure of the ruling if the flagstick was struck off the green. Many thanks mike

If a ball played from off the green strikes the flagstick on the fly and drops in the hole it is holed and there is no penalty. If the ball hits the flagstick on the fly and comes to rest nearby, there is no penalty and it must be played from where it comes to rest.

There was a time, I think in the 1950's or early 60's, when one could putt on the green with the flagstick left in and unattended. Are you aware of the date when this was changed? Hope you can help and thanks.RegardsGraham

Yes, you are correct. In January 1950 this was Rule 38-3;3. Stroke play(i) Striking flagstickA competitor incurs no penalty if, playing from farther than twenty yards from the hole, his ball strike the flagstick which is not held or has not been removed. If the flagstick is attended, or has been removed, at the player’s request, and his ball strike it, he shall incur the penalty of one stroke and shall play his ball as it lies.

I have not checked as to when this Rule changed but you can do so yourself by following this useful link;http://www.ruleshistory.com/

Dear Barry, recently in a stroke-play competition a friend putted into the hole with the flagstick still in, the putt was from only 3 inches away from the hole. He didn't lift the flagstick and then didn't call a two shot penalty on himself. When queried after he said his ball didn't hit the flagstick as it went into the hole so it wasn't a penalty. Is there a definitive rule about putting into the hole with the flag in when you're on the green?Many thanks, Graham, Dublin, Ireland.

Your friend did incur a penalty of two strokes under Rule 17-3 for his ball striking the flagstick after putting from the putting green. Decision 17-3/1 confirms;

Q. A player plays a stroke from the putting green without having the flagstick attended. The ball stops momentarily on the lip of the hole and then falls into the hole. The player claims that the ball fell into the hole without striking the flagstick and therefore he incurs no penalty under Rule 17-3. Is the claim valid?

A. No. A ball is not holed until it is at rest in the hole — Definition of "Holed." If the flagstick is in the hole, it is impossible for a ball to come to rest in the hole without striking the flagstick.

I putted my ball towards the hole with flagstick being attended by an opponent during 4BBB Stableford competition. My ball hit the flagstick while the opponent was holding it in the hole. He claims ignorance about what he was supposed to do and thought he was doing me a favour by holding the flagstick in the hole. Pls help with a ruling.

In these unfortunate circumstances you are penalised two strokes. See the bolded answer section of this Decision 17-3/2;

Q.A's ball lies on the putting green. A requests B, his opponent or fellow-competitor, to attend the flagstick, and B complies. A putts and B fails to remove the flagstick. A's ball strikes the flagstick. What is the ruling?

A.If B failed to remove the flagstick for the purpose of causing A to incur a penalty, B is disqualified, in both match play and stroke play, under Rule 33-7 for taking an action contrary to the spirit of the game. In stroke play, in equity (Rule 1-4), A must replay the stroke without penalty.

If B's failure to remove the flagstick was with the intent to influence the movement of A's ball (e.g., for the purpose of preventing A's ball from going beyond the flagstick), B is in breach of Rule 1-2, and loses the hole in match play or incurs a two-stroke penalty in stroke play, whether the ball strikes the flagstick or not. In stroke play, if the ball struck the flagstick and as a result A suffered significant advantage or disadvantage, then the Committee could consider B to have committed a serious breach of Rule 1-2, the penalty for which is disqualification. Whether or not B has committed a serious breach of Rule 1-2, in stroke play, if A's ball struck the flagstick, in equity (Rule 1-4), A must replay the stroke without penalty - see Note 2 to Rule 1-2.

If B's failure to remove the flagstick was not deliberate (e.g., the flagstick stuck in the hole-liner or B was distracted and did not see A putt), since B was acting on A's behalf, A incurs a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play under Rule 17-3. A must play the ball as it lies. B incurs no penalty. (Revised)

Thanks for your speedy reply Barry! My opponent had no malicious intent, in fact, he thought he might be doing me a favour. He acted deliberately out of ignorance of the rules. I just felt that I should not be penalised because of my opponent's ignorance. If it was my partner or caddie, on the other hand, then I would have to swallow the bitter pill. Any final thoughts? Tx. Buzz

The penalty still stands. Once you have authorised the player to attend the flagstick, even if it is only implied by him standing close enough to touch it, you are responsible if your ball hits it. So, always make sure that the player concerned understand that they have to remove it and is paying attention to your stroke.

There is no penalty incurred in the circumstances that you describe. Under Rule 17-3 there is a penalty when the player's ball strikes the flagstick in the hole after they have made a stroke from on the putting green.

What if someone holes out from off the green and when they get to the hole...instead of bending over and picking the ball out of the hole with their hand they yank the flagstick out quickly causing the ball to jump up and out of the hole. Is there a penalty for that?

If the ball was at rest within the circumference of the hole and all of it is below the level of the lip of the hole then it was holed. There is no penalty for removing the ball from the hole with the flagstick, but this is a bad practice that should always be discouraged. If all of the ball was not below the level of the lip of the hole when it was removed with the flagstick then the ball was not holed and the player incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 20-1 for lifting their ball without marking its position. The player must then replace the ball against the flagstick and let it drop into the hole as they remove the flagstick, otherwise the hole has not been completed.

Great Site, had a interesting one yesterday, ball on green 6 inches from hole, I was removing the flag and dropped it in high wind hitting my ball and moving it 2 inches further from the hole - is there a clear ruling on this ?

You incurred a penalty of one stroke for causing your ball to move with the flagstick (Rule 18-2a) and the ball should have been replaced. If the ball was not replaced, but played from where you moved it to, the penalty increased to two strokes for playing from the wrong place (Rule 20-7).

I find it consuming enough to remember the Rules as they are now, without spending time on if and when they changed. However, I can recommend you to the Historical Rules of Golf web site, where you will be able to research the answer to your question by using "flagstick" as the search term; http://www.ruleshistory.com

True story... A friend hit an approach shot to a green which lodged in the back of the hole, above the liner, almost(!) completely below the surface of the green. The hole was slightly deformed. When he pulled the pin the ball remained lodged, did not fall. An official ruled the ball not holed and gave him birdie (eagle would have won $1000 skin!). But he never struck the birdie shot and I wonder how he would have... he's entitled to lift/clean/place which was impossible without the ball falling into the hole. Does he have to place it BACK a half-inch so it sits on the lip? I asked why not pull the pin clumsily enough to bump the ball loose but we wouldn't expect a friendly ruling for that either.

Decision 16/3 rules on this situation, which is not as uncommon as you might think;

Q. A player's ball embeds in the side of a hole. Part of the ball is above the level of the lip of the hole. What is the ruling?

A. The ball is not holed - see Definition of "Holed." The player may play the ball as it lies or lift the ball under Rule 16-1b, repair the damage under Rule 16-1c and place the ball on the lip of the hole.

hi Barry, player A hits ball from off green towards hole and it lodges between flagstick and lip only partially in, player B walks several feet up to flag and jiggles it so ball falls into hole completely. Player B was not attending the flag and player A did not request he move the flag. What is ruling please? thanks Mick

Although Rule 17-4 states that the player or another person authorised by him may move or remove the flagstick, to let the ball fall into the hole, in stroke play there is no penalty for a player moving the ball of a fellow competitor, but the ball has to be replaced. In the circumstances that you describe the player whose ball it was could insist on the ball being replaced against the flagstick, so that they could carefully remove the flagstick to hole out, but as the ball had been holed anyway it would be more sensible for them to consider that the fellow competitor was authorised to jiggle the flagstick to achieve this.

Re question of ball putted and rolls off the green. You indicated that for the next stroke from off the green, the flag stick can be removed or attended. My assertion (question) is that it would be a penalty to strike the flag stick if it were left in (because you have already putted once), do you agree?

No I do not agree. There is no Rule or Decision that supports your assertion. A player making a stroke from anywhere off the putting green does not incur a penalty if their ball hits an unattended flagstick, under any circumstances.

Hi, great blog! Question: It is permissible to hold the flagstick in one hand & put with the other. But I believe that in doing this one can't ground the flagstick while making the put because it is deemed to be anchoring/stabilizing oneself whilst making a stroke. 2 stroke penalty. Is this correct? Cheers!

Yes, you may hold the flagstick in one hand and putt with the other, providing the ball does not hit the flagstick and the end does not touch the line of putt, Decision 17-1/5. Yo may ground the flagstick outside the line of putt, but may not use it to steady yourself.

Dear Barry, Yesterday I asked my caddie to attend the flag while standing left of the hole so that I could aim at his foot and cater for slope. One of the players objected. is he right and what is the penalty. Mumtaz

In match play, my opponent was on the green. I placed my wedges off the green nowhere near where anyone would think they would be in play. I removed the flag for her and stepped back off the green. Her putt rolled past the hole and off the green at a crazy angle, which would have hit my clubs. I removed them while the ball was in motion so as not to deflect her ball. Should I have been penalized?

I have a question for you regarding the flagstick. A ball comes to rest on a double green which serves as the 9th hole and 18th hole and not divided by the Committee. The player putts toward the 9th hole and while the ball is in motion, it hits the unattended flagstick of the 18th hole. Would the player incur a two stroke penalty in breach of 17-3c?

Yes, I am sure that a penalty is incurred in these circumstances. The only reference to double putting greens in the Decisions book is Decision 25-3/1 which confirms that in the absence of a Local, Rule 25-3, Wrong Putting Green, does not apply. Therefore, I deduce that any breaches of Rules relating to putting greens do apply, notwithstanding which of the two holes is being played.

Barry,Great info! My 14 year old daughter has been playing for about 1 1/2 years. We are quickly learning the rules...my question is during a tournament recently, her opponent was putting from the fringe. My daughter tended the flag. Her opponent did not say yes or no. When the ball was 3 or 4 feet from the hole she removed the flag. The ball hit the edge of the cup and rolled away from the hole. Her mother insisted she be allowed to re-putt. Same result, a 2 putt. After the tournament the mother approached the director and insisted she be given back a stroke because had my daughter not tended, it would have went in. Her opponent was given the stroke, my daughter was not penalized. What should have happened?

Oh dear, the Tournament Director made a terrible ruling! As your daughter was standing within touching distance of the flagstick she was deemed to be attending it with the authorisation of the player putting from off the putting green, Note 1 to Rule 17-1. So, when the player made their stroke your daughter had to remove the flagstick, because if the ball had hit the flagstick the player making the putt would have incurred a penalty of two strokes, Rule 17-3a.

As the Rules did not permit the player to take the putt again she incurred a penalty of two strokes, for playing from the wrong place , Rule 20-7, in addition to the stroke for the original putt and the two strokes that she then took to hole out.

Feel free to email me directly with any questions that you have at rules at barry rhodes dot com.

As you say it is poor etiquette, but it is not a breach of any Rule of Golf to refuse to attend a flagstick. The player would have to find someone else to attend it (anyone may do so, including a spectator), or remove the flagstick before making the putt. The matter should be reported to the Committee after the round has finished and they would be justified in imposing a sanction on the offending player, e.g. suspension from competitions for a period.

Hi BarryPlease watch the youtube link from golf.com - The Rules Guy.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_wq5L3HjdM&list=UUzdMqRWzdF0JUJRIVa-dgDw If the ball was not holed the pops out when the flag is removed, the Rule 17-4 says: the ball MUST be placed on the lip of the hole, without penalty.

The lady in you video did not place the ball on the lip of the hole, but she finished the putt from where the ball was after popping out. I think it was 2 strokes penalty for breaching the rule 20-7a(ii)- Playing from wrong place. Is it right or I just misunderstand the Rule 17-4.Thank you.

When a player’s ball rests against the flagstick in the hole and the ball is not holed, the player or another person authorized by him may move or remove the flagstick, and if the ball falls into the hole, the player is deemed to have holed out with his last stroke; otherwise, the ball, if moved, must be placed on the lip of the hole, without penalty.

If you do not follow the above procedure, pick-up the ball and tee off at the next teeing ground, you will incur the penalty of disqualification for not completing the hole.

I play in the PNW and we have a bit of rain, which affects the putting green. The putting greens tend to get very soft and around the holes you can definitely see the ground forming a small mound as people step close to the hole to remove the ball from the hole.

This is obviously not the intended nature of the hole by the grounds crew/course personnel.

My question is what is the remedy for this situation? Can we repair the hole (ie use the putter to stamp the ground back to the intended state?)

If not, is it because we've not holed out? What if someone that's not playing the round repairs the hole prior to us holing out?

Any further suggestions about this would be appreciated as it is often times much more difficult to make the putts then was intended.

Players are permitted (and should) repair any obvious damage to a putting green after all players in the group have finished playing the hole. However, players should be very careful that they are only repairing damage to the putting green (including around the hole) and are not changing the nature of the hole in any way.

If a previous flag position obstructs the line of a putt is the player aloud to take relief? Also who determines to whether it is obstructing his line or not? And does this rule stay the same for a ball just off the green?

There is no relief for a an old hole plug that is on a line of putt, but a player may attempt to raise or lower the plug to make it level with the surface of the putting green, Rule 16-1c and Decision 16-1c/3.

A hole made by a greenkeeper is an abnormal ground condition (See Definition of Ground Under Repair). So, a player would have relief if the hole interfered with their lie, stance or area of intended swing, but not for their line of putt.

Obviously the Committee should be notified as soon as practical, so that they can correct this unsatisfactory situation.

HiToday I played a match play game. My opponent attended the flag at my request whilst I putted from the back of the green. As the ball travelled towards the hole, he pulled the flag from the hole, turned and dropped the flag to the ground believing my ball would stop by the hole. It rolled past the hole and stuck the flag which was now on the ground. It seems inequitable that I should suffer a penalty for this as it was his action of dropping the flag and not taking due care that resulted in my putt hitting the flag. What's your view on the ruling? Replay, play from where ball lies or loss of hole? (Him or me?)Thanks

Decision 17-3/2 gives a full answer to the circumstances of your question. From your description it seems that you don't think that your opponent intentionally let your ball hit the flagstick, in which case you lost the hole.

This is the relevant part of Decision 17-3/2;If B's failure to remove the flagstick was not deliberate,... since B was acting on A's behalf, A incurs a penalty of loss of hole in match play ... under Rule 17-3.

Your opponent cannot concede the hole because it was already lost when your ball hit the flagstick, but if he wanted to 'correct' the situation he could concede the next hole to you!

Hi Barryso your opinion is that even though he had taken the flag out of the hole and then dropped the flag on the green, as long as he didn't deliberately drop the flag in order that the ball would hit it, then I lose the hole? Is the logic of the rule that his handling of the flag is merely doing me a favour, at my request, and is to help me to see where the hole is and therefore that any "risk" in this action of attending the flag on my behalf sits with me and not him. The problem being, how do you prove or determine whether the action was deliberate?

I did not give you an opinion on the penalty, I gave you a reference to the Decision which clarifies the ruling for the circumstance that you described. I do not make the Rules or try to justify them; I interpret them so that others may get a better understanding.

I do concede that it is not easy to prove or determine consent, which is why I gave you my opinion on what an 'innocent' opponent should do if they win a hole in this way.

You appear to be looking at Rule 17-3. My reference is to Decision 17-3/2. I strongly recommend that anyone with an interest in the Rules of Golf acquires a copy of the current 'Decisions on the Rules of Golf 2014-2015'. Meanwhile, you can access them on-line at this url; http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-01/

Thanks Barry. I wasn't aware of the Decisions on Rules of golf that you refer to, So that's a very useful guide. Apologies for the reference to "your opinion" , poor wording from me! There is a slight difference in the circumstances between what happened to me and the Decision you make reference to - namely that the flag had been removed and dropped on the green by my opponent. The ball did not hit the flag whilst it was in the hole. In the absence of a Decision relating to these precise circumstances, what is your opinion of the correct ruling? Do you believe that it would be the same as if my opponent had not removed the flag from the hole and the ball had hit it whilst in the hole?

Thanks Barry, very useful. I guess the conclusion I reach from this rule is that to avoid anything like this ever happening the only safe option is to always putt with the pin removed and a safe distance from the hole and to never have the flag attended!

A player's ball stops at the edge of the cup (flag removed). The player bends down and places one hand in the hole, and putts his ball into the hole with his other hand, catching the ball as it enters the cup (completely below the level of the lip of the cup). Is the ball deemed at rest when it's in his hand within the cup? I think not. Penalty? I think so.

In a similar situation, the player taps in his short putt, reaches in and grabs the ball while it is still bouncing in the cup (not at rest). Penalty? I think so once again.

You see these infractions all the time. I believe the player MUST allow the ball to come to rest in the hole before touching it at all. Do you agree?

Not only do I agree, but the Rules state that a player incurs a penalty in the circumstances that you describe, which I have to admit I have never personally witnessed, so it cannot be that common. The answer to Decision 1-2/5 confirms that a player may not purposely stop their moving ball. A ball must be at rest before it is holed, Definition of Holed.

When the player's ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

So, for example, the caddie may stand behind the flagstick and use his foot to point out the lie of putt, but must then move his foot so that there is no mark for the player. If he fails to do so the player incurs the general penalty.

Surprisingly(!), the answer to your question is contained in Rule 8-2a;

Except on the putting green, a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.

A player in my course likes to purposely place the flagstick behind the hole in the line of your putt. He does this so if you miss the putt and hit the flag you incur the penalty. Does one just have to keep moving the flag stick or does he incur a penalty for malicious intent? Great blog.

Barry,You state that a person can hold the flagstick while putting, and it can touch the ground (as long as it is not used for support). Do you know when the rule was changed to allow the flagstick to touch the ground? (I couldn't find it on the ruleshistory page that you mentioned.Thanks

I am not aware that there was ever a Rule that prohibited a player who is holding a flagstick from touching the ground with it. This seems to me to be illogical; why should you be able to place a flagstick on the putting green, but not touch the surface while you are holding it?

You may be confusing this with Rules 16-1a and 8-2b, which prohibit the player from touching their line of putt with anything.

Sorry if I was a little confusing. I meant touching the ground with the flagstick, holding it while putting. I know this is not a penalty now, but I was led to believe that it used to be a penalty to putt while holding the flag if it was also touching the ground. My thought was that this was clarified to state that it is only a penalty if this situation constituted support while taking a stance. And I wondered when this had been changed/clarified.Cheers,

As in my previous reply, "I am not aware that there was ever a Rule that prohibited a player who is holding a flagstick from touching the ground with it." This applies to someone who is holding a flagstick while putting, but note the exceptions that I referenced before.

Hi Barry, I uderstand in matchplay, if a player putts from on the green, and the ball goes in the hole, but touches the flag, due to the person tending the flag making a mistake by not removing it in time, then the penalty is to lose the hole. Does this penalty apply to the team if it is pairs matchplay, or can the second player continue to play on that hole?

Only the player making the putt is penalised, so their partner may play out the hole. This applies to most, but not all, penalties incurred by one partner in four-ball match play (See Rules 30-3d and 3e.)

Everyone is on the green. The pole is removed and put down on the green in what appears to be a far enough place by Player B. Player A hits the ball and it hits the pole laying on the ground. Who gets a penalty? Payer B who put it in a position , or Player A for not asking to have the pole moved before hitting the ball. I was told that player B would get the penalty if player A hit the pole, so I better move it.

The player who made the stroke incurred the penalty. They should have asked that the flagstick be moved to somewhere where it could not interfere with their putt (behind them!).

Incidentally, a point that many golfers do not appreciate is that without incurring a penalty anyone may move a flagstick, or the equipment of any player, that is lying on the putting green, while the ball is in motion, Rule 24-1.

Question: Ball is off the green; Player A asks his caddie to tend the flag because it is a long putt or chip. Once the ball is hit does the caddie have to remove the flag or does he have to leave it in or can he do either. It would seem to me that the caddie must remove the flag (otherwise, why has he even been asked to tend it). If the caddie has the option to do either then he/she could leave it in if the ball is moving quickly towards the hole and affect the outcome if the ball hits the flag.

Your reasoning is correct. In the circumstance that you describe, there is no option, because if the player's ball strikes the flagstick when it is attended, removed or held up they incur the general penalty, Rule 17-3.

Hi we were playing on a very windy day and the flag stick had been blown out of the hole and lay on the green. We were about 175 yards away so played up to the centre of the green. One of the balls hit the flag stick does this incur a penalty? Would you have to walk up to the green replace the pin before taking the shot to the green?

There is no penalty for a ball hitting an unattended flagstick lying on the putting green when the stroke has been made from off the putting green. A penalty applies only when the flagstick has been removed with the player's authority or prior knowledge (Decision 17-3/3).

Hi Barry, We were playing on a very windy day and the flag had been blown out of the hole and lay on the green. We were about 175 yards from the green but could see the flag stick lying on the green. One player struck his second shot and hit the flagstick. Would this incur a penalty because we could see the flag lying down? In other words if you see the flag lying there should you walk up to the green and replace it?

Apologies, I should have copied the full answer to Decision 17-3/3 that I referenced;

No penalty is incurred. Rule 17-3a is not applicable in either case. It applies only when the flagstick has been removed with the player's authority or prior knowledge by someone in the player's match or group.

Attending the flagstick is when someone stands close enough to the flagstick that they can touch it (though they are ususlly holding it) ready to remove it from the hole before the ball in motion reaches it. This is common practice for long putts, so that the player can see exactly where the hole is, but does not incur a penalty for their ball hitting the flagstick.

Holding up the flagstick usually refers to a situation where a player is playing from a level below the surface of the putting green (e.g. in a pot bunker) and thay cannot see the location of the hole unless the flagstick is held up by someone (the attendant) possibly over their head.

Removing the flagstick means what it says; the flagstick has been lifted out of the hole, usually to be laid aside in a position where it will not be in the putting lines of those still to play. So, a flag that is being held up has also been removed.

The answer to Decision 17/8 is relevant to the circumstance of your question;

A hole-liner is an outside agency. Accordingly, if the hole-liner was moving when the ball struck it, the stroke is canceled and the ball must be replaced - Rule 19-1b. If the hole-liner was not moving, the ball must be played as it lies - Rule 19-1. In case of doubt, the ball must be played as it lies.

Your second point at the top of the blog deals with Decision 17-1/7, moving a flagstick lying on the putting green that may interfere with someone's putt in motion.I couldn't find that Decision but the point seems to have now been subsumed into Rule 24-1, third paragraph.I guess it keeps us all on our toes!

Assuming it is stroke play, if your partner taps your ball into the hole they incur a penalty of one stroke and the ball must be replaced where it was (Rule 18-2). If it was a fellow competitor no penalty is incurred by anyone and the ball must be replaced (Rule 18-4).

Hi Barry, could you please clarify rule 14 Physical Assistance. This is in regards to the flag stick being held and touching the ground whilst tapping in a short putt. I understand that the flag can touch the ground however it can't touch the line of the put or be used as Physical Assistance. What is Physical Assistance in regards to the flag stick in this instance? Regards, Jim.

This is one of the many myths perpetuated by 'clubhouse experts'. Unless a player uses the flagstick to steady themself while making their their putt, which is extremely unlikely, there is no penalty for holding the flagstick as they make their putting stroke, providing it does not touch their line of putt, which is even more unlikely, as the ball would have to be screwed around it. Players all over the world hold the flagstick with one hand as they putt with the other, or rest it against their shoulder, and no penalty is incurred.

In Match play if player A chips in from off the green should she remove the ball and flagstick from the hole to ensure it has actually holed out or can a referee or anyone else - without being instructed to - do so?

There is no requirement in the Rules to do this in match play or stroke play. A ball is holed when it is at rest within the circumference of the hole and all of it is below the level of the lip of the hole.

From the information that you provide it seems that the weight of evidence is that the removal of the flagstick caused the ball to move; one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2 and replace the ball on the lip. If the ball was not replaced the penalty is 2 strokes.

In regards to double greens, would the flag stick marking the hole that is not in play fall under the same rules? I know if my ball were to go in to the wrong hole there is no penalty and I place the ball next to the hole but what if I am putting and somehow manage to strike the other flag stick. Penalty or not?

A fellow club member told me that when playing in a strokeplay competition only the person putting out, and not the fellow competitors, can retrieve the ball from the hole. Is this true?

I can't find this rule anywhere.As far as I am concerned, the ball has been holed out and therefore no longer in play it shouldn't matter who picks the ball out of the hole.? If such a rule exists what is the penalty and who takes the penalty?

Hello Barry,If your ball lies on the green and the putt strikes the flag stick and is holed it incurs a two stroke penalty.Is the ball holed or must it be placed in the edge of the hole and then holed for one more stroke making the total on green strokes including penalty four.John Swain

About Me

Barry is the author of ‘999 Updated Questions on the Rules of Golf 2012-2015’, the easiest and most enjoyable way to absorb and understand the Rules.
He is an enthusiastic, high handicap golfer, resident in Dublin, Ireland, who developed an interest, then a fascination, and now an obsession with the Rules of Golf. Barry’s relationship with the Rules began in 2000 with his participation in the inter-club Rules of Golf quiz competitions, organised by the Royal & Ancient for Golf Clubs in Great Britain and Ireland. This then led to him writing articles, running quizzes, and delivering presentations on the Rules at a variety of Golf Club and corporate functions.
In March 2008, Barry became the first person to achieve a 100% correct mark on the public Advanced Rules of Golf Course examination, run by the PGA in their headquarters at The Belfry, West Midlands, UK, and in April 2015, Barry received a ‘pass with distinction’ in the R&A’s Level 3, Tournament Administrators and Referees School examination, the highest certification awarded.
Having blogged since December 2008 Barry hopes that you will check out some of his previous blogs by clicking on the months/years above.