THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

"...to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." II Cor.5:8

"Wherefore seeing we also are encompassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses..." Heb.12:1a

I think I would rather believe the Bible than a man's opinion.

Quoting: Wingedlion

THE GREAT CLOUDS OF WITNESSES THAT ENCOMPASSES ARE THE ANGELS WHICH LOOK OVER THE SAINTS DAILY..

PSALMS: The angels of the lord encamps around those who love the lord

Quoting: neim777

In context of the scripture the great cloud of witnesses are the hero's of faith that was described in the preceeding chapter 11.There is no mention of angels in this passage. When interpreting biblical passages it is wise to use hermeneutical principles rather than doctrinal bias to interpret them.

Quoting: Wingedlion

The angels are the witnesses to our life in this earth.

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

"...to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." II Cor.5:8

"Wherefore seeing we also are encompassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses..." Heb.12:1a

I think I would rather believe the Bible than a man's opinion.

Quoting: Wingedlion

THE GREAT CLOUDS OF WITNESSES THAT ENCOMPASSES ARE THE ANGELS WHICH LOOK OVER THE SAINTS DAILY..

PSALMS: The angels of the lord encamps around those who love the lord

Quoting: neim777

In context of the scripture the great cloud of witnesses are the hero's of faith that was described in the preceeding chapter 11.There is no mention of angels in this passage. When interpreting biblical passages it is wise to use hermeneutical principles rather than doctrinal bias to interpret them.

Quoting: Wingedlion

The angels are the witnesses to our life in this earth.

Quoting: neim777

buzzzz! wrong!

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

THE BOOK OF ESDRAS/EZRA WAS ALWAYS PART OF THE BIBLE UNTIL YOUR CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS DECIDED TO ELIMINATE THEM AND OTHER BOOKS DEEMING THEM FORBIDDEN.

LUKE CHAPTER 16 THE ACCOUNT BY THE MESSIAH IS VERY MUCH THE SAME ACCOUNT OF THE AFTERLIFE

Quoting: neim777

That's how Gnostics work their writings - they take inspired works from the Gospels and create similar.

:

Ezra was not considered inspired by early church.

21 Reasons Why the Apocrypha is Not Inspired

1.The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.

2.Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.

3.Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.

4.These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.

5.They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.

6.They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves; as when, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in as many different places.

7.The Apocrypha inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.

It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.(2 Maccabees 12:39-46)

10.The apocryphal books themselves make reference to what we call the Silent 400 years, where there was no prophets of God to write inspired materials.

And they laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, till there should come a prophet, and give answer concerning them.(1 Maccabees 4:46)

And there was a great tribulation in Israel, such as was not since the day, that there was no prophet seen in Israel.(1 Maccabees 9:27)

And that the jewish people, and their priests, had consented that he should be their prince, and high priest for ever, till there should arise a faithful prophet.(1 Maccabees 14:41)

11.Josephus rejected the apocryphal books as inspired and this reflected Jewish thought at the time of Jesus

12.The Manual of Discipline in the Dead Sea Scrolls rejected the apocrypha as inspired.

13.The Council of Jamnia held the same view rejected the apocrypha as inspired.

14.Although it was occasionally quoted in early church writings, it was nowhere accepted in a canon. Melito (AD 170) and Origen rejected the Apocrypha,(Eccl. Hist. VI. 25, Eusebius) as does the Muratorian Canon.

15.Jerome vigorously resisted including the Apocrypha in his Latin Vulgate Version (400 AD), but was overruled. As a result, the standard Roman Catholic Bible throughout the medieval period contained it. Thus, it gradually came to be revered by the average clergyman. Still, many medieval Catholic scholars realized that it was not inspired.

16.The terms "protocanonical" and "deuterocanonical" are used by Catholics to signify respectively those books of Scripture that were received by the entire Church from the beginning as inspired, and those whose inspiration came to be recognized later, after the matter had been disputed by certain Fathers and local churches.

17.Pope Damasus (366-384) authorized Jerome to translate the Latin Vulgate. The Council of Carthage declared this translation as "the infallible and authentic Bible." Jerome was the first to describe the extra 7 Old Testament books as the "Apocrypha" (doubtful authenticity). Needless to say, Jerome’s Latin Vulgate did not include the Apocrypha.

18.Cyril (born about A.D. 315)– "Read the divine Scriptures – namely, the 22 books of the Old Testament which the 72 interpreters translated" (the Septuagint)

19.The apocrypha wasn’t included at first in the Septuagint, but was appended by the Alexandrian jewish people, and was not listed in any of the catalogues of the inspired books till the 4th century

21.Epiphanius (the great opposer of heresy, 360 A.D.) rejected them all. Referring to Wisdom of Solomon & book of Jesus Sirach, he said "These indeed are useful books & profitable, but they are not placed in the number of the canonical."

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

THE BOOK OF ESDRAS/EZRA WAS ALWAYS PART OF THE BIBLE UNTIL YOUR CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS DECIDED TO ELIMINATE THEM AND OTHER BOOKS DEEMING THEM FORBIDDEN.

LUKE CHAPTER 16 THE ACCOUNT BY THE MESSIAH IS VERY MUCH THE SAME ACCOUNT OF THE AFTERLIFE

Quoting: neim777

That's how Gnostics work their writings - they take inspired works from the Gospels and create similar.

:

Ezra was not considered inspired by early church.

21 Reasons Why the Apocrypha is Not Inspired

1.The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.

2.Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.

3.Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.

4.These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.

5.They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.

6.They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves; as when, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in as many different places.

7.The Apocrypha inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.

It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.(2 Maccabees 12:39-46)

10.The apocryphal books themselves make reference to what we call the Silent 400 years, where there was no prophets of God to write inspired materials.

And they laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, till there should come a prophet, and give answer concerning them.(1 Maccabees 4:46)

And there was a great tribulation in Israel, such as was not since the day, that there was no prophet seen in Israel.(1 Maccabees 9:27)

And that the jewish people, and their priests, had consented that he should be their prince, and high priest for ever, till there should arise a faithful prophet.(1 Maccabees 14:41)

11.Josephus rejected the apocryphal books as inspired and this reflected Jewish thought at the time of Jesus

12.The Manual of Discipline in the Dead Sea Scrolls rejected the apocrypha as inspired.

13.The Council of Jamnia held the same view rejected the apocrypha as inspired.

14.Although it was occasionally quoted in early church writings, it was nowhere accepted in a canon. Melito (AD 170) and Origen rejected the Apocrypha,(Eccl. Hist. VI. 25, Eusebius) as does the Muratorian Canon.

15.Jerome vigorously resisted including the Apocrypha in his Latin Vulgate Version (400 AD), but was overruled. As a result, the standard Roman Catholic Bible throughout the medieval period contained it. Thus, it gradually came to be revered by the average clergyman. Still, many medieval Catholic scholars realized that it was not inspired.

16.The terms "protocanonical" and "deuterocanonical" are used by Catholics to signify respectively those books of Scripture that were received by the entire Church from the beginning as inspired, and those whose inspiration came to be recognized later, after the matter had been disputed by certain Fathers and local churches.

17.Pope Damasus (366-384) authorized Jerome to translate the Latin Vulgate. The Council of Carthage declared this translation as "the infallible and authentic Bible." Jerome was the first to describe the extra 7 Old Testament books as the "Apocrypha" (doubtful authenticity). Needless to say, Jerome’s Latin Vulgate did not include the Apocrypha.

18.Cyril (born about A.D. 315)– "Read the divine Scriptures – namely, the 22 books of the Old Testament which the 72 interpreters translated" (the Septuagint)

19.The apocrypha wasn’t included at first in the Septuagint, but was appended by the Alexandrian jewish people, and was not listed in any of the catalogues of the inspired books till the 4th century

21.Epiphanius (the great opposer of heresy, 360 A.D.) rejected them all. Referring to Wisdom of Solomon & book of Jesus Sirach, he said "These indeed are useful books & profitable, but they are not placed in the number of the canonical."

Quoting: ACC 10961733

The bible perpetuate lies? ABRAHAM LIED ABOUT SARAH BEING HIS SISTER SO THE EGYPTIAN PHAROAH WILL NOT TAKE HIS LIFE.

KING DAVID LIED AND KILLED A MAN FOR HIS WIFE!

I CAN GO ON AND ON..

THE INCIDENT IN THE MACABEES OF JUDAH WAS A REPORT OF HIS ACTION.JUDAH WAS A BATTLE AXE AND A WARRIOR.he did prayer for the dead but it was something he thought was a holy thing to do.

JUDAH WAS NOT A PROPHET OR APOSTLE!

I SEE YOU ARE ANOTHER SEMINARIAN TRAINED PUPPET:

MY QUESTION TO YOU IS WHO ARE THESE MEN WHO DECIDED THAT THE BOOKS OF OUR FATHERS SHOULD BE DIVIDED AND BUTCHERED .THEY TOOK OUT THE NAME OF THE ONE TRUE GOD AND GAVE YOU YAHWEH AND YHWH AND JEHOVAH.

wHY IS THE BOOK OF ESTHER ENDED ABRUPTLY IN CHAPTER 3 BUT CONTINUES IN THE OLD BIBLES AS THE REST OF ESTHER?

PLEASE DO YOUR HOME WORK AND COME AGAIN SEMINARIAN

WHEN YOU COME NACK TELL ME PLEASE

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

live right ! do right ! and honor the holy one of Israel

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

Lots of folks being visited by Jesus Christ to day and being shown heaven and hell. Hundreds of testamonies, they all see very close to same things. Hell is real. It is a horrinble place, backslidden christians go there too. The fallen "christians" recieve many times more punishment. I am before God to repent and take His word serious.

I wouldn't want to see my worst enemy go to hell. Its not a joke. Please if you are reading this- listen to Gods word, the bible, ask Jesus into your life and study well and obey God. There are disputes, Christians disaggree, but the Word of God is our final say......please escape from hell fire - its horrible and forever

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

please escape from hell fire - its horrible and forever

Quoting: WalkerTalker2

Jonah was apparently there "for ever" - and 2 or 3 days later he was out and finally obeying God.

Jesus saves.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

Like those who were clinically dead, went, saw, and experienced hell, they also physically came back to life.

Not everyone, comes back to life, like these clinically dead people and Jonah.

Also, where does it state specifically that Jonah was there 'forever'?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16711658

Yep and Jonah had to be dead in a whales belly for three days. Bare in mind all the digestive juices and the stench in a whale who could have survived such? The father brought him back as a sign pointing to the resurrection of messiah

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

Lots of folks being visited by Jesus Christ to day and being shown heaven and hell. Hundreds of testamonies, they all see very close to same things. Hell is real. It is a horrinble place, backslidden christians go there too. The fallen "christians" recieve many times more punishment. I am before God to repent and take His word serious.

I wouldn't want to see my worst enemy go to hell. Its not a joke. Please if you are reading this- listen to Gods word, the bible, ask Jesus into your life and study well and obey God. There are disputes, Christians disaggree, but the Word of God is our final say......please escape from hell fire - its horrible and forever

Quoting: WalkerTalker2

it is a real place and people think it is funny.

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

Satan is real. I'm constantly attacked spiritually... I've had OOB experiences that confirmed this when I didn't believe. UNBELIEVERS please give God a chance. In your hearts you know he is real. Don't let some desire to sin keep you from reaching out to him, and don't be deceived. None of us can escape sin, except through accepting Jesus Christ and spreading His message. LOVE and GOD BLESS!

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

Hell is REAL..and HERE IS PROOF..

God is omnipotent..all knowing and all seeing. He knew long before he created anyone that billions of beings he was about to create were destined to be tortured by being burnt alive forever by him in a place he created JUST for that purpose.

GOD PLANNED hell.

If He did not he is not all knowing.

He is also a TORTURE expert and has seen to it that the people in hell suffer to the UTMOST every second of their eternity..being so compassionate and merciful God also saw to it that there would be NO correction there..NO rehab..and NO WAY OUT..a Just and fair "Punishment of eternal duration for the mere sin of being created and born into a world where life generally sux..followed by an even more suckful eternity.

But Jesus DIED to save us from this place he INTENDED us to go to..the place HE created to roast the vast majority of people alive in unbearable agony forever. He died to save us from HIS JUSTICE..to save us from HIMSELF really..after all..HE RUNS and MAINTAINS HELL..PLUS..he created every torture device there..HE creates the flames by the word of his mouth..HE knows every bit of agony that goes on there..and all those there DESERVE it..for being born HUMAN..in a fucked up crazy loveless world with about 20 million religions to choose and confuse..

But if we choose wrong..with our very LIMITED understanding of life or eternity..sorry..but you have to BURN.

Also..if you are born into a religion like islam or Bhuddism or some such..YOU WILL BURN as well..for DARING to be born to the wrong culture..wrong parents..and wrong religion..even though GOD chooses who gets born to who and where..cause if he did NOT choose..and you are born by MISTAKE into the wrong religion..then God is not all KNOWING and NOT in control at all.

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

Hell is REAL..and HERE IS PROOF..

God is omnipotent..all knowing and all seeing. He knew long before he created anyone that billions of beings he was about to create were destined to be tortured by being burnt alive forever by him in a place he created JUST for that purpose.

GOD PLANNED hell.

If He did not he is not all knowing.

He is also a TORTURE expert and has seen to it that the people in hell suffer to the UTMOST every second of their eternity..being so compassionate and merciful God also saw to it that there would be NO correction there..NO rehab..and NO WAY OUT..a Just and fair "Punishment of eternal duration for the mere sin of being created and born into a world where life generally sux..followed by an even more suckful eternity.

But Jesus DIED to save us from this place he INTENDED us to go to..the place HE created to roast the vast majority of people alive in unbearable agony forever. He died to save us from HIS JUSTICE..to save us from HIMSELF really..after all..HE RUNS and MAINTAINS HELL..PLUS..he created every torture device there..HE creates the flames by the word of his mouth..HE knows every bit of agony that goes on there..and all those there DESERVE it..for being born HUMAN..in a fucked up crazy loveless world with about 20 million religions to choose and confuse..

But if we choose wrong..with our very LIMITED understanding of life or eternity..sorry..but you have to BURN.

Also..if you are born into a religion like islam or Bhuddism or some such..YOU WILL BURN as well..for DARING to be born to the wrong culture..wrong parents..and wrong religion..even though GOD chooses who gets born to who and where..cause if he did NOT choose..and you are born by MISTAKE into the wrong religion..then God is not all KNOWING and NOT in control at all.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16426387

What exactly is your agenda? Wolf in sheep's clothing? Get the fuck out of here. God is just, everyone will be judged accordingly.

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

Hell is REAL..and HERE IS PROOF..

God is omnipotent..all knowing and all seeing. He knew long before he created anyone that billions of beings he was about to create were destined to be tortured by being burnt alive forever by him in a place he created JUST for that purpose.

GOD PLANNED hell.

If He did not he is not all knowing.

He is also a TORTURE expert and has seen to it that the people in hell suffer to the UTMOST every second of their eternity..being so compassionate and merciful God also saw to it that there would be NO correction there..NO rehab..and NO WAY OUT..a Just and fair "Punishment of eternal duration for the mere sin of being created and born into a world where life generally sux..followed by an even more suckful eternity.

But Jesus DIED to save us from this place he INTENDED us to go to..the place HE created to roast the vast majority of people alive in unbearable agony forever. He died to save us from HIS JUSTICE..to save us from HIMSELF really..after all..HE RUNS and MAINTAINS HELL..PLUS..he created every torture device there..HE creates the flames by the word of his mouth..HE knows every bit of agony that goes on there..and all those there DESERVE it..for being born HUMAN..in a fucked up crazy loveless world with about 20 million religions to choose and confuse..

But if we choose wrong..with our very LIMITED understanding of life or eternity..sorry..but you have to BURN.

Also..if you are born into a religion like islam or Bhuddism or some such..YOU WILL BURN as well..for DARING to be born to the wrong culture..wrong parents..and wrong religion..even though GOD chooses who gets born to who and where..cause if he did NOT choose..and you are born by MISTAKE into the wrong religion..then God is not all KNOWING and NOT in control at all.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16426387

What exactly is your agenda? Wolf in sheep's clothing? Get the fuck out of here. God is just, everyone will be judged accordingly.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25234912

Um..what I just wrote is solid christian dogma taught in every christian thread..church..and seminary.

How can you say its wrong?

I Only wrote what YOU beleived and teach.

I KNOW its what you teach because for nearly 30 years I too beleived all of the above AND taught it AND reacted JUST like you did to me when ever someone came along and laid out what I beleived to its logical conclusion.

Christian HATE it when what they beleive and teach is clearly explained.

Im still a christian..but not one that swallows the "God is a sadistic prick who is SO dead set on "Justice" that MERCY gets thrown out the window at the expense of the sadstic pointless satanic torture of TRILLIONS.

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

God isn't evil, but Satan is, and Satan exists, and works to destroy God's creation. If it were not to benefit the devil at all (pleasure in the misery of God's children), why would he bother tempting us and manipulating us? Evil people also exist, and they can't just take a slap on the wrist. No one alive knows the schematics of it all. But God is just and he loves us all.

What you wrote seemed pretty biased against all of Christianity. I never got the impression that you were ANY kind of christian.

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

God isn't evil, but Satan is, and Satan exists, and works to destroy God's creation. If it were not to benefit the devil at all (pleasure in the misery of God's children), why would he bother tempting us and manipulating us? Evil people also exist, and they can't just take a slap on the wrist. No one alive knows the schematics of it all. But God is just and he loves us all.

What you wrote seemed pretty biased against all of Christianity. I never got the impression that you were ANY kind of christian.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25234912

Its biased against LIES..lies that christians somehow belive...that I myself somehow belived for a long time.

I see the truth now..and once its seen it cant be unseen.

God IS love..and LOVE NEVER FAILS..and when he said he would search out the last sheep leaving the 99 behind to do so..he meant it.

Justice has its place..but justice IS just..NOT sadistic or pointless.

Burning trillions alive in screaming agony forever is about as UNloving and UNjust and UTTERLY pointless as one can get.

The lake of fire is a lake of his PURE PRESENCE..and it DESTOYS EVIL..all the wood..hay and stubble gets burnt away by LOVE.

LOVE is to EVIL as FIRE is to ICE..it WONT be pleasant..but it WILL do what its meant to do.

If it does not then when God says there will be no more tears..suffering..pain and crying..while trillions are still DOING all these things forever..he is a LIAR..and GOD CANT LIE.

When he says there will be no more death or pain..in ALL of his creation..HE MEANT IT.

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

No human knows. Unless God shows them. But there is still much, all of us don't 'get'.

A few years ago I had backslid and then took psychedelics and encountered Satan directly. I was a hypocrite, my faith had completely weakened. Satan was real as ever in my experience, on earth I was only out for a few minutes, but I was tormented for what felt like several hours. Time was no longer a valid concept. After this experience all I feel like doing is not existing and I don't have a desire to continue being on Earth.Now I'm afraid and I know demons are going to fight to keep my soul but I want to scream: I LOVE CHRIST, I WILL SERVE HIM! GIVE YOUR HEART TO CHRIST, EVERYONE!

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

Now I'm afraid

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25234912

Perfect love casts out fear. Your best bet may be to stop focusing on spiritual porn such as devils and hellfire, and pursue knowing the Father.

From on the cross, Jesus publicly forgave those who nailed Him up there, and we know they weren't repentant because they didn't even know what they had done. This degree of mercy is often overlooked and minimized by carnal, over-sensational drama queens who push their turn-or-burn "gospel" of a god who's willing to cook you for failing.

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

Of course hell is real, it says so in the bible and also the Apocrypha. Heaven is also real.

We either go to one place or another when we die.

The only question is, is hell forever? I don't think so because at the end death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire, I believe hell is destroyed. Not sure tho.

Quoting: Lisa*Lisa

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment

The angels who sinned? the ones who messed with the daugters of men in the book of genesis. How long ago was that?

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

In my conclusion

isaiah chp 6

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 2 Pet 3:13 Isa 65:17

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

very good the only thing is circumcision is no longer reqired as one of the mosaic laws.

Quoting: neim777

That's not what Jesus said:

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.(Matthew 5:18-19)

And it's not what the Mosaic law says either:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.(Deuteronomy 4:2)

Why are you telling people that a law has been removed from the Mosaic laws? If you want to obey the Mosaic laws you have to obey all of them.

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

very good the only thing is circumcision is no longer reqired as one of the mosaic laws.

Quoting: neim777

That's not what Jesus said:

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.(Matthew 5:18-19)

And it's not what the Mosaic law says either:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.(Deuteronomy 4:2)

Why are you telling people that a law has been removed from the Mosaic laws? If you want to obey the Mosaic laws you have to obey all of them.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29664793

yes I agree and let us take it one step deeper instead of scratching the surface. Messiah words are adhered to because the circumcision of the heart "a renewing and a humbling of the spirit" is the requirement rather than the foreskin and the law written in the hearts of the israelites has been fullfilled by the messiah.He established this in the new coevenant to the elect.

There is no more killing of animals for scarifices also because he fulfilled that prophecy as the lamb

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

very good the only thing is circumcision is no longer reqired as one of the mosaic laws.

Quoting: neim777

That's not what Jesus said:

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.(Matthew 5:18-19)

And it's not what the Mosaic law says either:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.(Deuteronomy 4:2)

Why are you telling people that a law has been removed from the Mosaic laws? If you want to obey the Mosaic laws you have to obey all of them.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29664793

yes I agree and let us take it one step deeper instead of scratching the surface. Messiah words are adhered to because the circumcision of the heart "a renewing and a humbling of the spirit" is the requirement rather than the foreskin and the law written in the hearts of the israelites has been fullfilled by the messiah.He established this in the new coevenant to the elect.

There is no more killing of animals for scarifices also because he fulfilled that prophecy as the lamb

Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar

If Christians are under new covenant law, and they don't have to be circumcised, and they don't have to sacrifice animals, then obviously new covenant law isn't the Law of Moses. If Christians were under the Law of Moses they would have to be circumcised, perform sacrifice of animals and plants, and obey all the rest of the Law of Moses.

You aren't adhering to what Jesus said or to the Law of Moses, because the Law of Moses requires physical circumcision. Jesus made no changes to the Law of Moses. You want to obey the Law of Moses, you must get physically circumcised - no excuses.

However, as the bible repeatedly says, Christians don't have to get circumcised, because Christians aren't under the Law of Moses.

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

very good the only thing is circumcision is no longer reqired as one of the mosaic laws.

Quoting: neim777

That's not what Jesus said:

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.(Matthew 5:18-19)

And it's not what the Mosaic law says either:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.(Deuteronomy 4:2)

Why are you telling people that a law has been removed from the Mosaic laws? If you want to obey the Mosaic laws you have to obey all of them.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29664793

yes I agree and let us take it one step deeper instead of scratching the surface. Messiah words are adhered to because the circumcision of the heart "a renewing and a humbling of the spirit" is the requirement rather than the foreskin and the law written in the hearts of the israelites has been fullfilled by the messiah.He established this in the new coevenant to the elect.

There is no more killing of animals for scarifices also because he fulfilled that prophecy as the lamb

Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar

If Christians are under new covenant law, and they don't have to be circumcised, and they don't have to sacrifice animals, then obviously new covenant law isn't the Law of Moses. If Christians were under the Law of Moses they would have to be circumcised, perform sacrifice of animals and plants, and obey all the rest of the Law of Moses.

You aren't adhering to what Jesus said or to the Law of Moses, because the Law of Moses requires physical circumcision. Jesus made no changes to the Law of Moses. You want to obey the Law of Moses, you must get physically circumcised - no excuses.

However, as the bible repeatedly says, Christians don't have to get circumcised, because Christians aren't under the Law of Moses.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29664793

what is considered the law of moses to your understanding?

the book of joshua8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Moses never wrote or gave us his own laws they were instructed from The father in heaven and given to Moses.When the bible refers to moses law it is referring to the 5 books of moses which in the hebrew culture was called the Bbook of the law.The prophets mentioned are the minor books of the old testament as messiah mentioned .I did not come to change the law or the prophets

Then there was was fault with the laws of God which he admitted to and sent messiah to his people with the covenant of grace that they will no longer be stoned to death foR failing in one but had repentance.The laws will be inputed into their spirits that they will obey the commands and statutes as christ taught

1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,:knoup:

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

please escape from hell fire - its horrible and forever

Quoting: WalkerTalker2

Jonah was apparently there "for ever" - and 2 or 3 days later he was out and finally obeying God.

Jesus saves.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

Like those who were clinically dead, went, saw, and experienced hell, they also physically came back to life.

Not everyone, comes back to life, like these clinically dead people and Jonah.

Also, where does it state specifically that Jonah was there 'forever'?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16711658

It's in Jonah chapter 2, per the immutable, pristine, floated-down-from-the-sky-as-is King James bible.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

The 'for ever' in this chapter, was translated from the original Hebrew word, 'owlam'.

Owlam has many definitions. One definition is 'long'. That doesn't mean, that hell is not forever. Especially when you examine the original Greek word, where Jesus spoke of an eternal (aionios) punishment.

Re: THE PLACE OF TORMENT AND HELL IS REAL! THIS IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! YOU CHOOSE

Um..what I just wrote is solid christian dogma taught in every christian thread..church..and seminary.

How can you say its wrong?

I Only wrote what YOU beleived and teach.

I KNOW its what you teach because for nearly 30 years I too beleived all of the above AND taught it AND reacted JUST like you did to me when ever someone came along and laid out what I beleived to its logical conclusion.

Christian HATE it when what they beleive and teach is clearly explained.

Im still a christian..but not one that swallows the "God is a sadistic prick who is SO dead set on "Justice" that MERCY gets thrown out the window at the expense of the sadstic pointless satanic torture of TRILLIONS.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16426387

Its biased against LIES..lies that christians somehow belive...that I myself somehow belived for a long time.

I see the truth now..and once its seen it cant be unseen.

God IS love..and LOVE NEVER FAILS..and when he said he would search out the last sheep leaving the 99 behind to do so..he meant it.

Justice has its place..but justice IS just..NOT sadistic or pointless.

Burning trillions alive in screaming agony forever is about as UNloving and UNjust and UTTERLY pointless as one can get.

The lake of fire is a lake of his PURE PRESENCE..and it DESTOYS EVIL..all the wood..hay and stubble gets burnt away by LOVE.

LOVE is to EVIL as FIRE is to ICE..it WONT be pleasant..but it WILL do what its meant to do.

If it does not then when God says there will be no more tears..suffering..pain and crying..while trillions are still DOING all these things forever..he is a LIAR..and GOD CANT LIE.

When he says there will be no more death or pain..in ALL of his creation..HE MEANT IT.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16546949

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"