palmermd wrote:I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "B" cell. It is a "B" pack on the Model S. For all we know A,B,C and D packs all use the same cells. Some theorize that the B and newer packs have cell improvements, but other doubt that and just think is is some other limitation related to pack construction. Personally I think they may both be correct.

There are differences to the chemistry and if you look on the forums is not that hard to find. They are also speculated to be higher cap cells to both handle the higher C rating and longevity.

"I have been following TonyWilliam's efforts to provide CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV which he terms "JdeMO" with interest and wondered when I might see an open source Chademo implementation for the Rav4EV. I am certain that there will always be a market for the so called JdeMo but for the DIY folks on this forum and other forums, it would really be fun to have an open source version.

As an example, the Jesla came about as Tony's implementation of an open freely available way to convert the Tesla Model S UMC to J1772. It was first done by Phil on the LEAF forum here. BBQ also reported this on this forum here. TonyWilliams posted on the Tesla forum about such a conversion here. I actually did one of these myself but realized its limitations and so went with an open source OpenEVSE build here.

Unfortunately, the only posts I see about CHAdeMo for the Rav4EV are Tony's own about the "JdeMo" The closest efforts in this regard have to do with making a portable mini-CHAdeMO charger by GaryGid and others here but this is, of course, for cars that already have CHAdeMO. Are there others working on an open source version of a CHAdeMO port for the Rav4EV?"

My sisters RAV4 EV, which she has been very happy with until now, is in the shop due to failure of some electronic board. No ETA on when the part will arrive (I believe it has been there about a week so far). Apparently Toyota has to get the part from Tesla. So much for the compliance BEV.

1) Frankenplug charger adaptors, so that the 150,000 CHAdeMO port equipped cars (and several dozen RAV4 and Mercedes B-Class ED''s) can use the Frankenplug when the adjoining CHAdeMO charger is occupied.

The chances of the Frankenplug charger being in use with a few thousand cars driving around is slim, so it will likely always be available.

NOTE: except for some future BMW dealers, virtually EVERY Frankenplug has a CHAdeMO sitting right next to it.

2) CHAdeMO stations everywhere. My latest concept is a regional "JdeMO" network throughout the western US similar to Superchargers:

a. 100-150kW, dual head, just like Superchargers
b. Prepaid for by users
c. custom plug that is not compatible with non-paid users
d. fully compatible with CHAdeMO capable cars
e. "Dumb" stations... it starts and stops on site... no communications that interfere or fail to charge your car
f. between major metro area, LA to SF, SF to Sacto, Sacto to Reno, San Diego to LA, LA to Las Vegas, Seattle to Portland, Sacto to Oregon

Some folks won't be familiar with JdeMO on this forum, so here's the Cliff Notes version:

JdeMO for DC quick charging of the 2012-2014 Toyota Rav4 EV will be available in 2015 from Quick Charge Power.

FAQ's:

1) How fast will the Rav4 EV be able to charge?

Answer: It will charge at approximately 400 volts DC and 125 amps, or about 48kW. That means that it can charge from 20% to 80% of the battery usable capacity in approximately 35-40 minutes. This will add about 33.3kWh or about 100 miles of additional range at 3 miles per kWh consumption rate.

2) What kind of chargers can I use?

Answer: You will still be able to use the existing J1772 plug for charging, and additionally will also be able to also use any CHAdeMO charge station anywhere in the world. This is commonly known as the same quick charger used for the Nissan LEAF, KIA Soul EV or Mitsubishi iMiev.

You specifically will NOT be able to use the Tesla Supercharger system, nor will it work at CCS Combo1 chargers used by GM Spark EV, BMW i3 and Volkswagon eGolf.

Answer: No, If operating as designed. But, increasing the charge rate to any battery that has ever been designed in the history of mankind will likely shorten its lifespan.

5) Will it void my warranty?

Answer: It should not void any warranty, however we do not have control of how any auto manufacturer will likely handle a battery warranty claim. In all likelihood, any battery failure would likely be blamed on any product connected to the battery, no matter how unlikely it actually did damage. Therefore, each JdeMO sale will require a "hold harmless" agreement that indemnifies Quick Charge Power LLC from any claim. This may preclude JdeMO sales in the state / commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Federal law sets forth requirements for warranties and contains a number of provisions to prevent vehicle manufacturers, dealers and others from unjustly denying warranty coverage. With regard to aftermarket parts, the spirit of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle, or have been used. The warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. Disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts and technical opinions, rather than arguments over interpretations of the law.
Like the Magnuson-Moss Act, vehicle manufacturers may not refuse warranty repairs under the Clean Air Acts performance and defect warranties merely because aftermarket parts have been installed on the vehicle. The only circumstance under which the vehicle manufacturer can void the emissions warranties is if an aftermarket part is responsible for (causes) the warranty claim.

Should something go wrong, the warranty provider will need to determine the cause of the problem. The Federal Trade Commission says, “The manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.” That means if the dealer can prove (the burden is on the dealer) the problem was caused by the wrong viscosity or a poor quality oil filter, your warranty can be denied. Warranty protection would still be in effect for other parts of the cars.

6) Will there be a warranty on the JdeMO?

Answer: All Quick Charge Power products offer a one year limited warranty.

7) Will it be possible to remove JdeMO on a lease return car?

Answer: Yes , but only by personnel specifically authorized in writing by Quick Charge Power.

8) Do I need to remove JdeMO to have normal service or maintenance performed?

Answer: Absolutely not. We specifically do not want you handling, modifying, repairing or in any way changing JdeMO except to recharge your Rav4 EV from a CHAdeMO charger. If you need to remove JdeMO for any reason, contact Quick Charge Power for instructions.

WARNING: HIGH VOLTAGE CAN KILL. DO NOT TOUCH, MODIFY, HANDLE, REPAIR OR CHANGE JdeMO IN ANY WAY.

9) Can I charge with a CHAdeMO charger and the J1772 plug at the same time?

Answer: No. On a somewhat related note, we anticipate being able to offer a dual onboard charger option in the future that can operate from two separate J1772 plugs, or two NEMA 14-50 outlets (with two JESLA's). It will add almost 60 miles additional range per hour of charging.

10) Can I install JdeMO myself?

Answer: Absolutely not. We specifically do not want you handling, modifying, repairing or in any way changing JdeMO except to recharge your Rav4 EV from a CHAdeMO charger. If you need to remove JdeMO for any reason, contact Quick Charge Power for instructions.

WARNING: HIGH VOLTAGE CAN KILL. DO NOT TOUCH, MODIFY, HANDLE, REPAIR OR CHANGE JdeMO IN ANY WAY.

11) Can my local Toyota dealer install JdeMO?

Answer: Yes, with a properly trained Prius or EV trained technician.

12) How long will it take to install?

Answer: About one hour.

13) Will JdeMO be able to power my house through the CHAdeMO plug?

Answer: Yes, it will be compatible with CHAdeMO specification 1.0, therefore with appropriate external equipment, it may work.

14) I have heard that CHAdeMO in the future will be 100kW capable. Will JdeMO be able to charge at that rate?

Answer: No, because in order to get the full 100kW would require a 500 volt battery. Like most modern electric vehicles, the Rav4 EV uses a 400 volt battery, therefore the maximum charge rate would be 200 amps multiplied by 400 volts, or about 80kW. Additionally, we do not know if the plug will be the same.

15) Where will JdeMO be mounted?

Answer: It will all fit entirely under the hood. To charge, you will open the hood and plug in the CHAdeMO plug.

16) How much will it cost?

Answer: We believe the cost will be around $2000, however no price has been set.

RESERVATIONS:

We will open up reservations for delivery of the first JdeMO products on August 9, 2014 at 9am. To be first on the registration list and to pay the required $1000 deposit.

UPDATE: Deposits closed Sept 30, 2014

To get on the JdeMO interest list, just send an email with your name, city, state and phone number to:

I responded on the other forum but will do it here too. These are good thoughts but don't you think that a Frankenplug to CHAdeMO adapter would be more of a challenge since the charging protocols are different? For example for L2 charging, making a Tesla plug to J1772 adapter or cutting off the Tesla plug and putting on a J1772 is more doable since its the same protocol.

In fact, wouldn't it be easier to put a CHAdeMO port on a frankenplug car like the BMW i3, than actually making an adapter from SAE CCS to CHAdeMO? I imagine one way to implement CHAdeMO is to intercept the car's charging handshake signals and tell it that it's OK to charge and then send in direct current into the battery using a CHAdeMO port.