Backtracking - Reviewing my Rejection of the Afterlife.

For the last six years or so I have firmly pressed a stance that rejected the possibility of there being an afterlife, or rather, to put it in a more
scientific context, the possibility of post-mortem conscious continuation after the demise of the physical body and brain.

I had made a lay study of death and 'near-death experiences' (NDE) for over 25 years, a study which forced me to follow a path through various
knowledge systems both philosophical and esoteric, and scientific and medical. I tend to lean more toward a scientific approach, but always leaving
room for open-mindedness; nevertheless, I considered the empirical and experimental approach to be the litmus test of verification and validation, and
still do.

Recently, I have been coming across snippets of information that have once again brought me to a questioning of my stance. The information I am coming
across is piecemeal and scattered around, so I need to bring it together and assimilate it and process the knowledge against the backdrop of where I
am today. Medical science is making great strides in understanding the death process, but has still yet to deliver anything on consciousness. The way
I am looking at the situation is that science and phenomenon are meeting each other for the first time, not as strangers, but as complimentary aspects
that have known of each other's presence, but have only recently begun to allow the other any access to understanding.

Natural death is not an instantaneous 'switch off' of consciousness and life. Our bodies and brains are modular units working together that culminate
in the conscious life experience. Death shuts down these modular units at varying times, some shutdown before others. It is now known that once the
brain loses the perfusion of both blood and oxygen, during cardiac arrest, for instance, it goes into a form of hibernation, and if blood and oxygen
are not restored to normal perfusion, the brain cells begin to die quite rapidly, leading to either brain damage or death.

...it draws correllations to that of Raudive Slawinski's work on 'necrotic radiation' or 'light shout' when organisms die. Brain death causes calcium
to rush out of brain cells on mass, which creates a large spike of energy. What this means in scientific terms has not yet been worked out. It has
been theorised (not scientifically) that the energy spike is the moment of transition from life to death to (possible) afterlife, or as the moment
when the NDE begins? It is all speculative at the moment, but along with other strands of information coming in, a hypothetical base of data is
accumulating that science can take a rigourous look at. Even so, such knowledge has its detractors and critics, and they have been, are, and will be
vociferous in their criticism.

There has been an on-going discrete experiment underway in various operating theatres with regards to NDE, and specifically, to try and ascertain the
veracity of claims for 'out-of-body-experience' (oobe). Hidden away on shelves high above the patient and staff, certain pictures and numbers have
been placed in such a way that they could only ever be perceived by someone undergoing the disembodied experience of oobe. Apparently, some results
are in and look promising, although I myself have not come across any information except for this claim. I'll have to dig for it and will report what
I find.

I am quite willing to adapt my stance to new knowledge, as long as it fits within certain criteria, and that it passes a certain threshold of
veracity.

The very fact that we exist at all is a most profound and enigmatic puzzle. If we were to uncover that our existence is phasal, and moves from dense
physicality to a less dense and more ethereal form of physicality, it would be the moment when our species steps out of its adolescence and into a
maturity that may well bring about a growth in true global nurture and moral behaviour. The very moment we come into the post-mortem 'light' will be
the very instance of our conscious growth. It would make the dense physical body we have now, the very incubator of the soul or spirit, that prepares
us for the next phasal journey that stretches far beyond the mortal coil.

I don't have time to say much right now, but I will say thing, keep it up, keep an open mind.

I have verified for myself that there is life after death, but I am unable to provide the same evidence to anyone else.
The best verifiable evidence is the case of children remembering their past lifes parents, home and so on without ever hearing of those people places
in this life, and its verified that the places and people exist and that the child remembers the life history of someone who died.

As for myself I have had an encounter with a dead person, and that did it for me.

Originally posted by elysiumfire
The very moment we come into the post-mortem 'light' will be the very instance of our conscious growth

Why wait for the post-mortem state to experience this conscious growth?

It is possible to experience it now, while very much alive. Spiritual meditation or mystic practice is essentially a rehearsal of this post-mortem
existence, it is a dying while living. The direct subjective experience of the after-life state while living is ultimately the only way to satisfy the
intellect of an earnest researcher.

There has been an on-going discrete experiment underway in various operating theatres with regards to NDE, and specifically, to try and ascertain the
veracity of claims for 'out-of-body-experience' (oobe). Hidden away on shelves high above the patient and staff, certain pictures and numbers have
been placed in such a way that they could only ever be perceived by someone undergoing the disembodied experience of oobe. Apparently, some results
are in and look promising, although I myself have not come across any information except for this claim. I'll have to dig for it and will report what
I find.

It looks like you've done your research. I am very interested in this experiment but have lost the
name of the Doctor or researchers involved. I would appreciate a link or reference.

Like you, when I look scientifically at the continuation of consciousness (or life) after death, I am/was
always disappointed. But what brings me back is this enigma of consciousness. And by that
I mean the puzzle of why here? And why now?

Of all the time in the history of the universe, and of all the places from which my consciousness
could have emerged, it seems so puzzling for me to be here and now, alive, awake, aware, and
sentient.

My scientific mind tells me I have to choices or options. One is that this particular set of cells
that is me....this mind boggling conglomeration of trillions of cells and organisms and parasites---
all of it---is the EXACT blueprint for what was needed to house this consciousness that I AM
experiencing. That would mean that there was, and has always been, a blueprint for me just waiting
for the right moment to be conceived.

The other is that my consciousness existed and is/was housed in a bio mechanical robot.
That I am experiencing a life thru this super-duper monkey suit for some reason.

I don't know which is correct.

I do know that this monkey suit I am wearing is nothing more than a fancy re-arranging of the
materials that make up this planet and this universe.

But I still hold to the notion that there is an aspect to the energy of life that would can not yet
perceive. And that somewhere in our ignorance there is something divine. Be a an unlikely
deity, or a mass energy of everything....maybe LOVE (if you will).

But to my simple mind there has to be something both before and after. I can testify that this
is not "wishful" thinking. I do not hold this notion out of a fear of absolute death....I hold this
notion out of an independent intuition...I AM because I AM

I am very interested in this experiment but have lost the name of the Doctor or researchers involved. I would appreciate a link or
reference.

The name of the doctor is Sam Parnia, originally from Southampton, here in the UK, but is currently working in the US. Parnia is not as much
interested in NDE itself, but more on the process of death and what occurs at biological and psychological levels during the death crisis. He's very
interested in consciousness studies because it is his job to bring you back out of the death process and to full conscious state.

Dr. Parnia is part of the AWARE study which is conducting the oobe veracity experiments...

Out of all the elements of NDE, the oobe aspect is probably the current most important part, because means by which claims for oobe can be tested have
been devised. A positive result for this experiment, requiring a certain number and percentage of clearly defined 'hits' would shake the very
foundations of both medicine and science, especially physics. It would cause a very profound paradigm shift in the way we perceive ourselves, but we
have to tread cautiously, and we have to be able to eradicate any possible means of fraud, or information giving on the target pieces to patients so
that they could claim oobe and NDE experience. Disingenuous results obtained this way would be very damaging indeed, and I don't doubt that there are
parties out there whom would like nothing better than to see these experiments fail big time.

Thank you very much, and I agree absolutely. Shake the foundations? Whew, almost an understatement
Personally a confirmed OBE death experience (especially several in collaboration) would finally confirm
for me what I innately and intuitively feel.

I have since my earliest awareness of life pondered this question. I sought out churches and
bible studies and endured Catholic Catechism and altar boy duties, read the Qur'an and books
on other major world religions and have ended up an agnostic (for want of a better label).
I recall being very excited when I read "Life After Death", the first book of its ilk as a boy, or reading
about the early experiments with weight loss at the moment of death. I have always had my eye
out for something scientific and verifiable because the notion of faith alone seems so wishful
and impotent. Maybe It is wishful and hopeful and egotistical and selfish to want to believe that
this body is not the end-all of me...but I can't help having at least a little faith. It is hard to be
unbiased when it is your own mortality at stake

25 years of studies and you have not even attempted an OBE, or astral projection?

The reason I say this is not to diminish your findings, but rather give you another avenue to pursue. I was in the same belief system as yourself
until one day I had what was called an involuntary OBE and I was scared to death.

25 years of studies and you have not even attempted an OBE, or astral projection?

I don't think one can do 25 years of research on a subject without some form of practical application. The research was necessarily
multi-disciplinary, Eastern mysticism traditions included, meditation, yoga, etc, but I have never had an 'oobe', nor have I ever 'astral'
travelled. I am quite a visual person, and do dream lucidly a lot.

I agree with your imputation. Direct experience is the most formidable conveyor of knowledge, and if I were ever to be tutored on this subject by
direct experience, I would have no qualms whatsoever in reporting it on this forum, in this thread. I am quite ready with my mental notebook should
the experience occur to me. Perhaps, it is my pragmatism that is the block?

I have a close friend whom assures me that he has had astral experience on at least two occasions. He knows I take his claim with a pinch of salt, and
it probably infuriates him when we discuss the matter.

I think we can agree that the energy that makes us up will continue forward even after we (at least our human selves) die. Now, energy also makes up
consciousness, so I guess the question is - is a body necessary for energy to come together in such a way as to produce consciousness? I'm not sure
if there is life after death - it would depend on how we define "life." I do believe, however, in the likelihood of awareness after death. Great
post and thanks for sharing.

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