Agreed. I know views can be regional but I don't let my 4 year old drive a car so why in the world would I give them a gun and leave them unattended with it. I cannot imagine my mother saying it was my child's time to go. How weird.

How about the fact that it was an actual gun designed to look like a toy, called "My First Rifle"?

I looked on their website, i guess the brightly colored ones look a little toy like...but they still seem to look awful real to me. But i could see how Cecilia or Nathalie might not realize that. I wonder what the one that the child used actually looked like.

Not that it matters to me really, because the real issue is that the child was left alone with the gun. My opinion wouldn't change on that whether the gun had a nice wood finish or was bright pink.

I would like to know what your opinions are on guns in the USA - seeing as you're all Americans.

To me, I just don't get it.

xx

I'm pretty sure a few of us aren't American but that aside, we share common opinions on gun control (the introduction and enforcement of, that is) with many of our neighbours to the south. And, I will also say that if I get going again on the topic I will surely lose my cool

This is clearly the mother's fault. You don't leave a gun sitting in the corner with a 5 and 2 year old in the house. Even if the gun belonged to the 5 year old he shouldn't be shooting it without adult supervision and then it should have been put in a safe place the rest of the time.

This is another one that makes me, as a gun owner, cringe. There is no way that a 5 year old should be left unattended with it. I feel very bad for this poor 5 year old. The parents just strapped him with guilt for his whole life over shooting his sister, all because they were stupid and irresponsible

This is another one that makes me, as a gun owner, cringe. There is no way that a 5 year old should be left unattended with it. I feel very bad for this poor 5 year old. The parents just strapped him with guilt for his whole life over shooting his sister, all because they were stupid and irresponsible

Exactly - the poor boy

Whoops, I should have worded it "most of you are Americans" lol.

Can I ask the PP, why would you lose your cool? Are you for or against guns?

Lisa, this is definitely a stupid question but is your gun for protection?

I think what baffles me is how you can just walk into a store and buy a gun, are there no boundaries in place?

Can I ask the PP, why would you lose your cool? Are you for or against guns?

Lisa, this is definitely a stupid question but is your gun for protection?

I think what baffles me is how you can just walk into a store and buy a gun, are there no boundaries in place?

xx

We have some hunting guns, a couple of pistols for protection, and Dh has a collection of antique guns that his uncle left him (no idea what we will do with them, they are not really Dh's favorite hobby)

NPR article about children and guns on Facebook today. Honestly, a lot of the comments by readers are really infuriating. The stereotypes, lack of knowledge about how MOST families actually treat guns in the house, the notion that parent child bonding time over the activity is ridiculous or backwards...really ticks me off.

Can I ask the PP, why would you lose your cool? Are you for or against guns?

Lisa, this is definitely a stupid question but is your gun for protection?

I think what baffles me is how you can just walk into a store and buy a gun, are there no boundaries in place?

xx

Because the gun control debate is something that lots of us are HOTLY divided over. I think it best not to let myself get too involved in another one. We did it after Sandy Hook and well, nah, not going there again.

Just wondering if as a group we could agree that this story really isn't about gun control honestly but about a stupid parent who did something unacceptable. Really no different than letting a 5 year old play pool side or take a car for a spin.

I get having the debate when we are talking about guns in the hands of ill intended people. The "sh*t, what do we do about an individual who wants a gun and wants to use it to kill people"

I don't get it in cases like this, as its really no different than any other bad choice parents make that leads to the death of their child.

I agree Kim. I don't think it's about gun control in this case because there will always be parents making dumb and sad decisions.

I will say though it still bugs me that they do make "kid guns". Just doesn't sit well with me. Not really a gun control issue I don't think. Just odd. If guns are to be taken seriously, why make them like a toy?

Is it the colors on them that makes you feel like they look like a toy? Because i looked at their site, and even with the colors, they don't look like toys to me honestly, but again, we teach our kids what real guns are....and never once have we said "A real gun is one that is black, or has a wood stain finish"

If we had a pink or orange gun in the house, you'd be certain my kids will still know that its real. And seeing as it would be treated like all the other guns in the house, they would have NO CHOICE but to know its a real gun.

NPR article about children and guns on Facebook today. Honestly, a lot of the comments by readers are really infuriating. The stereotypes, lack of knowledge about how MOST families actually treat guns in the house, the notion that parent child bonding time over the activity is ridiculous or backwards...really ticks me off.

When we were in Hawaii we were having this conversation about guns with new friends from Australia and SA and Scotland (co workers of my husband). I can tell you that they pretty much envisioned all Americans to be gun toting rednecks. They could not fathom why we all wanted or needed guns. The stereotype doesn't just exist amongst non gun holders here in the US, but abroad as well.

Although avoiding it might also create a false sense of security. What is the advantage of reinforcing this idea that a real gun only fits a certain description. I would think none.

Oh, I didn't mean that teaching children that only certain guns are real because they look like X. That would absolutely give a false sense of security. I just don't think there should be a need to create little kid guns that are hot pink. Makes it appear like a toy vs. a real weapon.

When we were in Hawaii we were having this conversation about guns with new friends from Australia and SA and Scotland (co workers of my husband). I can tell you that they pretty much envisioned all Americans to be gun toting rednecks. They could not fathom why we all wanted or needed guns. The stereotype doesn't just exist amongst non gun holders here in the US, but abroad as well.

Yeah i don't care who holds the stereotype really. Its still a stereotype and its wrong. And i actually find it really hurtful to think about how some people might actual imagine the follwing things about my family

a)How we behave generally
b)What my other political views are
c)What we actually do with our guns or how we treat them
d)How we parent
e)Our intellgience
f)How responsible we are

All based on the fact that we aren't anti-gun.

Its stupid, and pretty shameful. But it always impresses me how much many people in the anti-gun crowd are so certain about how the non-anti gun crowd behaves.

Oh, I didn't mean that teaching children that only certain guns are real because they look like X. That would absolutely give a false sense of security. I just don't think there should be a need to create little kid guns that are hot pink. Makes it appear like a toy vs. a real weapon.

but thats my point, they really do look like guns. It looks like a real gun that is pink. And we shouldn't tell our kids that real guns aren't pink, and a pink gun should be stashed away like all other guns, so while like you, i think all the 'cutesy-ing' of stuff is stupid....I don't really think the fact that its pink or orange or whatever is really the problem. The precautions that are supposed to be in place would protect children from guns no matter what color it is.

Well if it makes you feel any better they lumped us all together just for being Americans. Your reaction seems so extreme, I admit that it seems super defensive.

I know some career women or lesbians who think of SAHM"'s as "breeders" or look down on housewives or whatever. I can't even imagine getting defensive. Love my life. Can't imagine calling them stupid or shameful.

but thats my point, they really do look like guns. It looks like a real gun that is pink. And we shouldn't tell our kids that real guns aren't pink, and a pink gun should be stashed away like all other guns, so while like you, i think all the 'cutesy-ing' of stuff is stupid....I don't really think the fact that its pink or orange or whatever is really the problem. The precautions that are supposed to be in place would protect children from guns no matter what color it is.

Exactly. And it goes the other way too. It is silly to ban a gun just because it looks more scary when it has exactly the same function as other guns.

Well if it makes you feel any better they lumped us all together just for being Americans. Your reaction seems so extreme, I admit that it seems super defensive.

I think it is right now because i was reading those comments on that NPR article. Some of them were pretty extreme and offensive.

I know some career women or lesbians who think of SAHM"'s as "breeders" or look down on housewives or whatever. I can't even imagine getting defensive. Love my life. Can't imagine calling them stupid or shameful.

I think in general i get more defensive about things than you do. Just my personality can't help it. I'm pretty sensitive about the way I'm perceived. ETA: And my sensitivity is not a reflection on how much i do or don't love my life, not to sound defensive or anything

We have some friends that have 2 older boys and then a girl. She wanted a pink gun for her first gun, she wanted it so her brothers wouldnt touch it. It looks very real, and she is very aware of its capability.

Kim, I am with you on the stereotyping that comes with owning firearms. Unfortunately it is a stereotype that is not only socially acceptable to hold, but it almost seems to be encouraged.
I dont get defensive over my family, but I do know families that have been shunned within social circles just for owning guns.

Until I came on this board, oh so many years ago (almost 10 I guess since Nathaniel is 9 1/2!) I had never knowingly met anyone who owned a gun. I thought it was only for weirdos. Then in some debate it turned out about half the women had guns and a lot of them had grown up where it was completely commonplace.

Since then I have discovered that some of my coworkers (none of whom live in NYC) own guns. It is very strange to me but I've learned not to judge people just for owning them.

I still think collecting them is weird.

Then again, I have a collection of Star Trek action figures, and I'm 47. (I don't keep adding to it, but still...)

If I've already met the person (like I've "met" you guys) it doesn't change my opinion, but if someone told me that someone I just met in passing had a bunch of guns, I'd be that stereotyper you guys hate for sure. I admit it.

I guess I understand owning one for hunting, or having one because you live very far out from others/police and need protection, but otherwise it baffles me. It's just not in my zeitgeist. (There's a word I don't get to use a whole lot.)

Like Laurie I too admit to having some stereotypes of certain types of gun owners. I rabidly do not understand NRA supporters. I also have them about men with second or third wives more than 20 their junior, women who have had so much plastic surgery that their face can't move, people who watch cage fighting and lots more. You guys really are 100% stereotype free? I guess thats cool, but I can't imagine it? It'd be like walking through life pretending I didn't have 37 years of experience with people to learn from.

I think that lots of gun owners are very responsible with their guns. Lots aren't. I'm very responsible with my kids car seats. Lots of people aren't, so I'm really glad that there are such stringent car seat laws out there. What flat out boggles my mind is the "responsible" gun owners who don't want any infringement on the crazy people....because their personal children are safe from gun violence in side their home. What about the kids who can't speak for themselves? My father has a shotgun for when we sportfish ~ there is no bringing a big shark onto the boat alive. It holds two shots. It is locked in a gun safe separate from the ammunition. Even though we are safe from it, if a law was passed saying that we had to keep that gun in a gun club and take it out on the three or four days/year that we may be shark fishing, we would all support that law, because it would help keep guns in the hands of responsible people. I don't see that as infringing on our rights, but protecting other people. The disconnect for me is where this idea of "rights" trumps actual people. That is where, yes, I picture someone I cannot relate to on the issue of guns. That does not mean I cannot relate to them on other things, or that I dislike them as an individual.

And I agree that I don't understand the unwillingness to make laws that require background checks. It completely baffles me. I'm a responsible, safe driver but I want people to have to take a test to get their license, to have their license taken away if they deserve it, I'd be happier if it was harder to pass the test too. I want OTHER responsible drivers out there.

I guess I understand owning one for hunting, or having one because you live very far out from others/police and need protection, but otherwise it baffles me. It's just not in my zeitgeist. (There's a word I don't get to use a whole lot.)

FYI, we own 8, and they are all for hunting or learning to hunt. They all serve different purposes, no one gun could do it all. Or for example we have a muzzle loader, because there is a separate season in which you can only use your muzzle loader. You can't hunt all animals with the same guns (For example there is no such gun that you could use to shoot both a turkey and a moose). This isn't really a debate rebuttal, just information offered up.

I have long knitting needles and shorter one, double pointed knitting needles, ones of different diameter, circular ones...because you can't knit everything with the same set of needles. Same kind of thing.

Like Laurie I too admit to having some stereotypes of certain types of gun owners. I rabidly do not understand NRA supporters. I also have them about men with second or third wives more than 20 their junior, women who have had so much plastic surgery that their face can't move, people who watch cage fighting and lots more. You guys really are 100% stereotype free? I guess thats cool, but I can't imagine it? It'd be like walking through life pretending I didn't have 37 years of experience with people to learn from.

Who is 100% stereotype free? No one. Does that mean we should justify it? I don't think so. We call people out on these boards all the time for making inappropriate judgements, generalizations and stereotypes. But all of a sudden when it comes to gun owners, the answer is "we all steretype..its okay"

I think that lots of gun owners are very responsible with their guns. Lots aren't. I'm very responsible with my kids car seats. Lots of people aren't, so I'm really glad that there are such stringent car seat laws out there. What flat out boggles my mind is the "responsible" gun owners who don't want any infringement on the crazy people....because their personal children are safe from gun violence in side their home. What about the kids who can't speak for themselves? My father has a shotgun for when we sportfish ~ there is no bringing a big shark onto the boat alive. It holds two shots. It is locked in a gun safe separate from the ammunition. Even though we are safe from it, if a law was passed saying that we had to keep that gun in a gun club and take it out on the three or four days/year that we may be shark fishing, we would all support that law, because it would help keep guns in the hands of responsible people. I don't see that as infringing on our rights, but protecting other people. The disconnect for me is where this idea of "rights" trumps actual people. That is where, yes, I picture someone I cannot relate to on the issue of guns. That does not mean I cannot relate to them on other things, or that I dislike them as an individual.

I would be totally against having to keep the gun somewhere else other than the house, just like i would be against banning swimming pools at residential properties. Sure i care about the little kids who drown in swimming pools...and no one NEEDS a swimming pool in their back yard. But people should be able to have swimming pools, even though their are irresponsible parents. People should be able to have ATV's, even though there are irresponsible people. I don't see much precedent being set for telling people they can't keep stuff at home because other parents don't know how to protect their kids from it.

I am fine with regulations within a household. I'd be fine with finding parents negligent for leaving unlocked guns in their house. Right now the rates of that are too low. I'm fine with universal background checks. I'm not personally against all regulation.

And I agree that I don't understand the unwillingness to make laws that require background checks. It completely baffles me. I'm a responsible, safe driver but I want people to have to take a test to get their license, to have their license taken away if they deserve it, I'd be happier if it was harder to pass the test too. I want OTHER responsible drivers out there.

I don't understand this either, but i thought most recent stats said the majority of people supported universal background checks. Regardless...i don't understand not supporting it.

Who is 100% stereotype free? No one. Does that mean we should justify it? I don't think so. We call people out on these boards all the time for making inappropriate judgements, generalizations and stereotypes. But all of a sudden when it comes to gun owners, the answer is "we all steretype..its okay"

I would be totally against having to keep the gun somewhere else other than the house, just like i would be against banning swimming pools at residential properties. Sure i care about the little kids who drown in swimming pools...and no one NEEDS a swimming pool in their back yard. But people should be able to have swimming pools, even though their are irresponsible parents. People should be able to have ATV's, even though there are irresponsible people. I don't see much precedent being set for telling people they can't keep stuff at home because other parents don't know how to protect their kids from it.

I am fine with regulations within a household. I'd be fine with finding parents negligent for leaving unlocked guns in their house. Right now the rates of that are too low. I'm fine with universal background checks. I'm not personally against all regulation.

oh I don't just mean their kids. I mean my kids too. And the kids at sandy hook. And people watching a movie. Or attending a political rally. Etc etc

FYI, we own 8, and they are all for hunting or learning to hunt. They all serve different purposes, no one gun could do it all. Or for example we have a muzzle loader, because there is a separate season in which you can only use your muzzle loader. You can't hunt all animals with the same guns (For example there is no such gun that you could use to shoot both a turkey and a moose). This isn't really a debate rebuttal, just information offered up.

I have long knitting needles and shorter one, double pointed knitting needles, ones of different diameter, circular ones...because you can't knit everything with the same set of needles. Same kind of thing.

I have 5 different whisks, two sets of measuring cups & spoons, etc. I get it when it's equipment vs. collectibles.

oh I don't just mean their kids. I mean my kids too. And the kids at sandy hook. And people watching a movie. Or attending a political rally. Etc etc

Oh, i was thinking of it the context of this original topic.

I'd rather there be regulations on how you get guns and who can have them, where you can actually take them to and how, then telling people they can't keep them or use them on their private property. I mean....even when we hunt, its on private property so I don't even see how something like this is feasible.

I'd rather there be regulations on how you get guns and who can have them, where you can actually take them to and how, then telling people they can't keep them or use them on their private property. I mean....even when we hunt, its on private property so I don't even see how something like this is feasible.

Can that be done with leaving the US Constitution how it is, or do we need to change/modify.. amend it?

Who is 100% stereotype free? No one. Does that mean we should justify it? I don't think so. We call people out on these boards all the time for making inappropriate judgements, generalizations and stereotypes. But all of a sudden when it comes to gun owners, the answer is "we all steretype..its okay"
I would be totally against having to keep the gun somewhere else other than the house, just like i would be against banning swimming pools at residential properties. Sure i care about the little kids who drown in swimming pools...and no one NEEDS a swimming pool in their back yard. But people should be able to have swimming pools, even though their are irresponsible parents. People should be able to have ATV's, even though there are irresponsible people. I don't see much precedent being set for telling people they can't keep stuff at home because other parents don't know how to protect their kids from it.

I am fine with regulations within a household. I'd be fine with finding parents negligent for leaving unlocked guns in their house. Right now the rates of that are too low. I'm fine with universal background checks. I'm not personally against all regulation.

To the bolded, I guess. I don't know, I frequently get told I'm stereotyping because I admit that I frequently do it. I also willingly accept that there are exceptions to every stereotype and of COURSE not every person who does or is XYZ is automatically one way. But as I pull into my gym in the morning, and there are 300 cars that look exactly like mine, and there are 300 women in their mid to late 30's rushing with their 3-4 young and closely spaced kids (careers first of course) into classes and they are dressed in almost identical clothes and brands as I am and we then all drive our children to the same preschools and do the same tball and dance and PTA circuits and whatnot.....it couldn't hit me in the face more clearly that yes, I am exactly like a stereotype of a SAHM suburban Mom. Is that awful? Are there things about me that make me very different? Of COURSE! But in many ways I fit very neatly into that stereotype. So, no, I don't think that I am one of the people generally squaking about others doing that. We do it to poor black people, we do it of immigrants, we do it happily to the "greedy CEO's!!!!" etc etc....we all do it, all the time. And you may be more sensitive to this one, but that doesn't mean that we should all pretend that there isn't an image out there of some NRA gun toting NOT so educated person talking about his "freedoms".....and like it or not you may be nothing like him but to many, especially if you fight to limit any sort of gun control or to even acknowledge that we have a problem, you are the same as him. I know that you DON'T want no limits or no background checks etc, but like I acknowledged, there are exceptions and variations within any group of people. Not all golfers come from wealthy backgrounds. Not all women with frozen faces have self image issues or body dysmorphic disorder (okay I don't believe that one anyway.

I think that the swimming pool thing is a tough comparison to make with a straight face.

Methods. We obtained data about drowning deaths in the United States (1995?1998) from death certificates, medical examiner reports, and newspaper clippings collected by the US Consumer Product Safety Commission.Results. During the study period, 678 US residents aged 5 to 24 years drowned in pools. Seventy-five percent were male, 47% were Black, 33% were White, and 12% were Hispanic. Drowning rates were highest among Black males, and this increased risk persisted after we controlled for income. The majority of Black victims (51%) drowned in public pools, the majority of White victims (55%) drowned in residential pools, and the majority of Hispanic victims (35%) drowned in neighborhood pools (e.g., an apartment complex pool). Foreign-born males also had an increased risk for drowning compared with American-born males.Conclusions. Targeted interventions are needed to reduce the incidence of swimming pool drownings across racial/ethnic groups, particularly adult supervision at public pools.

Two thoughts~ it is hard for me to compare the deaths of 687 people over 4 years to the, what was it, like 31,000 gun deaths in the US in JUST 2012?
Secondly I don't see the data being all that compelling that its residential pools that are the problem, certainly not for black people, BARELY so for white people, and hispanics seem to die in apartment pools. Soooooo, yeah, I could see more of an argument for banning ALL pools than just banning residential ones, really. And if people wanted to ban ALL guns without trying to figure out a way (like gun storage clubs for sport etc) where background checked people could check out their own guns when they plan to hunt/fish etc then yes,well, I think that that would be as illogical as banning all pools. But when a crazy person can steal their mothers Semi automatic, or Glorias POLICE OFFICER husband can have all of his guns stolen from his house, when young babies are shooting one another to death with guns.....yes, there is a problem with how guns are handled and controlled in this country. Fact.

In 2015 they predict that more Americans will die from gun violence than from driving. Could that possibly be related to all of the regulation surrounding seatbelts, carseats, crash test safety ratings, and crackdown on what people can do in their home (drink) before they drive? I think so. Why is it sooooooo crazy to ask for the same surrounding guns? Wasn't gloria or someone saying that a car was a weapon on the walmart shooting debate? We regulate the heck out of that weapon, why can't we regulate guns much the same way?

And really, at the end of the day, other countries have done it. We just aren't THAT much more backward that we couldn't figure this out like the rest of the civilized world, are we?. The rate that Americans are killing Americans is downright shameful, so, yeah, I'm okay with understanding why someone who lives in a country where they have a minute number of gun related deaths looks at us like Minx in the OP and says " I just don't get it". I don't either. That is what I was replying to , more than the actual news story, sorry if I wasn't clear.

Oh-right-but I don't want my husband or I (or tens of thousands of adults i dont know. TENs OF THOUSANDS) to die from some wack job with a gun either. Super selfish like that. If you want to ban pools I will sign the petition or else require that only children who have had swimming lessons or pass a proficiency test can swim in public pools. There are already mad safety regs where I live involving private pools- if bad parents fail their kids I guess we just say it isn't pools that kill people it's people who kill people and agree?

Oh-right-but I don't want my husband or I (or tens of thousands of adults i dont know. TENs OF THOUSANDS) to die from some wack job with a gun either. Super selfish like that. If you want to ban pools I will sign the petition or else require that only children who have had swimming lessons or pass a proficiency test can swim in public pools. There are already mad safety regs where I live involving private pools- if bad parents fail their kids I guess we just say it isn't pools that kill people it's people who kill people and agree?

Or we could just agree that anything is dangerous if the right precautions are not taken. Children require supervision in pools just the same as they require supervision with guns to be safe. And a pool needs to be fenced off so children can't accidentally fall in just as a gun should be put up so children can't accidentally fire it. Seems pretty simple to me.

Hey 15600 was a HUGE OMG number to you on the last debate. If 31000 in this one is no big sweat I get it. Double the number of actual people vs fetuses. Dead. But you don't care at all. That's cool. Anyway I'm celebrating the faux holiday of 5 may so I will have to catch you ttomorrow.

Hey 15600 was a HUGE OMG number to you on the last debate. If 31000 in this one is no big sweat I get it. Double the number of actual people vs fetuses. Dead. But you don't care at all. That's cool. Anyway I'm celebrating the faux holiday of 5 may so I will have to catch you ttomorrow.

How did 114 turn into 31,000? We are talking about accidental deaths here not people purposely killing each other. And if I remember right you said that 1.3 % was a TINY percentage. Tell me what is percentage of 31,000 guns used to kill compared to the 300,000,000 people that own guns that don't kill with them? Oh right 1.03%