Should we take DSS on hols with is?

DP has had a rocky relationship with his son 12 for years and often goes through fazes of is son not wanting to see him. We are currently going through one of these fazes and DP has not seen him for 9 months, he calls, texts and occasionally pops to EXW house to see his son but his son still refuses to ever spend any time with him.

Over the years it has become a bit of a game to his DS, he will refuse to see him for long periods of time, refuses to speak to him on phone and as soon as something fun cones up like a holiday or a trip to see family for weekend (live far away) he will come along with a smirk on his face behave awful with the attitude of screw you I can do what I like and you can't tell me off or do anything because I won't see you again, then once home he goes back to refusing to see his dad.

So this has been happening for years and the last 9 months dp has desperately been trying to see his son snd sort these issues, he has sat his son down and told him he loves him, wants to see him regularly but that if it continues then he will not be taking him away on a summer holiday etc and he can't expect to ignore his dad all year and then just go away, when he said this his son just smirked and laughed in his face.

So we are coming up to a summer brake in a few weeks and dp is now unsure what to do, should he just invite his son along or should he stick to what he actually said and not take him on the hope it will actually make him realise?

That's my thoughts to be honest but didn't know if I was being to harsh so wanted views.

Last year it was a nightmare because of DSS behavior it wasn't a pleasant trip and just resulted in the other children getting socked for every little thing while DSS who was the one actually misbehaving got away Scott free because DP was to scared to say anything and DSS knew this so took advantage

I would take him, in the same way I would take one of my own kids who was being "difficult". Your DP should not treat his kids differently just because they have different mothers. Would you leave one of your kids behind just because they were being rude and hard to live with?

Unlike conventional families, DCs with separated families can choose whether they want to be a member of both their parents families, or whether it is easier for them to align themselves with one family, being a visitor to the other.

It is very hard for the parent that has been "rejected" in this way to know how to parent their DC; how to address rudeness, abuse etc. I certainly wouldn't welcome a DC on holiday with me who was hell-bent on spoiling it for everyone else, but If it were my child, I'd make damn sure there were consequences to behaving like that. The problem with DCs in "occasional families" is that parenting them isn't possible - as soon as a parent invokes discipline or expectations, the DC walks out again.

Personally, I'd avoid any kind of "family" situation at the moment, until your DSS and his dad have rebuilt their relationship. The holiday shouldn't be used as a stick to beat his DS with, though. Treat the holiday no differently to a day out, or even a movie night - something you do as a family but don't feel it necessary to involve your DSS, as he has currently "opted out" of family life with you.

ok, this child is now twelve and I agree that to a certain extent he is and should be held responsible for his actions, although at twelve children are still young to realise the long-term consequences of their actions, but let's put all that aside for a minute.

You said in your op that ds has had a rocky relationship with your dp for years. Why is this? Because only by exploring this can you get to the bottom of things and hope to resolve them in the future. As I said above, a twelve year old does know what he is doing, however if this has been going on for years then he was well below that age when this all started. What started it off and what did your dp do to resolve it?

It sounds like this is a patern of behaviour which started well before your dss was old enough to really be that manipulative and it's only now that he is of an age where he can be reasoned with more easily that your dp has tried to come down hard on him. But the issues were already there and it doesn't seem as if much has been done to resolve them. A few phone calls and popping round occasionally/ Yet if he's refused to see him then he's just gone away again? for months?

Your dp can't just ignore the fact that his ds has refused to see him for years and then decide that he's had enough and make him pay for it. He needs to get to the bottom of why these issues arose in the first place, communicate with his ex if need be to see how they can work together to resolve them. And I agree with a PP, if he's taking the other children on holiday he can't just decide to exclude this one because he's not behaving as he feels he should.

I don't think it's right that the boy refuses to see his father all year except in situations where a holiday or weekend away is on the cards.

The boy is clearly angry at his father and only he can tell him why.

I personally would not want him to come along. I don't see how the boy is benefiting positively from this current situation because it is teaching him that he can do what the hell he wants with no consequence.

If I was the mother I would be telling my son he was going to his fathers whether he liked it or not.

Obviously if abuse was occurring it would be different but your situation underlines why children shouldn't be allowed to make certain decisions, especially ones like parental contact.

And I agree with a PP, if he's taking the other children on holiday he can't just decide to exclude this one because he's not behaving as he feels he should

Where does the line get drawn for "occasional family members" though? Should the DSS be invited on family picnics? Trip to the zoo? Day to visit granny? When contact is being refused in the way the OPs DSS has done, the rejected family can't put their lives on hold; what constitutes "excluding" him from their lives?

If the relationship between father and son has broken down, that needs to be rebuilt first - then the rest of the family can be involved. the impact on the other DCs has to be considered to - broken promises and months of being ignored, only for him to turn up when he chooses to, will impact on them as well.

My point emo was that it isn't just the op and her dp that need to work through this with her dss. It needs input from his mum too so I was asking whether they are erring that support from her or not. And on your point we also don't know if the mum is he reason that her dss is behaving so negatively towards her dp.

In my book he is still too young to decide he wants nothing to do with his dad and years of allowing him to pick and choose which bits of family life with his dad he is involved. And he certainly doesn't get to only be involved in the fun stuff and then try and ruin it for everyone else.

Not sure there is much you can do other than apply for sanctions to be made over the repeated breeches of the court order

Don't know your circumstances , but a friend had a similar situation with her son.her ex walked out to be with another woman, never kept promises to see son, so son started to reject his dad, naturally.His mum,my friend, did everything to encourage the father and son to meet, to no avail. Her ex blamed her for his sons rejection, never once looked at himself, and would never admit that it was possible that his betrayal of his family for another woman may have played a part in the sons behaviour.

He has tried one to one with his son and that seemed like it was going really well for a few months, then again he just decided one day for no reason that he didn't want to go when he went to pick him up and again he then had no contact for 6 months until the summer holiday came up and he came.

His son is nearly 12 now, he was 1 when dp and ex split and from around the age of 4 he started to refuse to see dad regularly

wow, how on earth was a four year old allowed to decide for himself not to see his dad? I see threads like this on mn where parents say that the children should be allowed to decide, and clearly this is the ultimate outcome.

Peruvian I don't disagree that a twelve year old shouldn't just be able to show up for the good bits of a relationship, however we're talking about eight years here where this child has refused to see his dad and the adults in his life have facilitated this happening. It's very likely that at this stage he doesn't really know what it is he wants, and because the adults have allowed this relationship to break down the child is now the one paying the price.

Apart from all the points about taking him or not taking him, and whether you would leave your own DC at home...he was warned that if the non contact/bad behaviour wasn't resolved, he would not be going on the holiday! He obviously doesn't believe anyone actually means that, so why would he give a damn?! I've struggled over the years bringing up my own DC and with dealing with grown DSC, but one thing I've always stuck by (and its sometimes been very hard), if you threaten something...you carry it out, if you promise something....you deliver! How else can a child trust in you and what you say?!