Singletrack Forum » Topic: Chinese "Replica" Frameshttp://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames
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BenjiM on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/10#post-5019196
Tue, 28 May 2013 15:27:20 +0000BenjiM5019196@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p><blockquote>The ribbles Planet X etc.... Surely they passed EC failure testing before being sold here? And would be recalled if a fault occurred. So different to rip off cervelos direct from china. </blockquote></p>
<p>You'd think so wouldn't you. When my mates Ribble forks broke they told him to er, get on his bike. So much concern for the customers re-arranged face!
</p>Shibboleth on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/10#post-5018045
Tue, 28 May 2013 10:09:42 +0000Shibboleth5018045@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>Charlie, the conversation goes a bit further than the "rip off cervelos" you mention (assuming you're referring to stickered counterfeits). We're also talking about unbranded but structural rip-offs and "open mould" bikes which are made by the same suppliers as some of the "stickered counterfeits" but are also imported by reputable UK dealers.</p>
<p>And if Spesh recalled after "less than 10 failures", how come there are so many Roubaixs that snap at the seat-stay Zertz inserts plastered all over the t'interweb, yet Spesh hasn't recalled them all since 2004?</p>
<p><blockquote>When can I collect the keys for your house?</blockquote></p>
<p>We all know that conversation will have taken place... <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_wink.gif" title=";)" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p>charlie the bikemonger on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/10#post-5018024
Tue, 28 May 2013 10:01:51 +0000charlie the bikemonger5018024@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>shibboleth... These product recalls are part of the US legal system. It only takes one failure for the whole batch to be recalled. They know where they went and even contact specific dealers. I was recently told I sold a recall fork 4 years ago, and have tracked down my customer.</p>
<p>It's not optional, covering it up is illegal... Probably due to the ford exploding car disgrace you reference.</p>
<p>Specialized recalled everything after less than ten failures. Why so many failed specialized bikes, because there are so many out there.</p>
<p>When can I collect the keys for your house? <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_wink.gif" title=";-)" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p>
<p>The ribbles Planet X etc.... Surely they passed EC failure testing before being sold here? And would be recalled if a fault occurred. So different to rip off cervelos direct from china.
</p>lazybike on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/10#post-5017995
Tue, 28 May 2013 09:51:52 +0000lazybike5017995@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>Yunki... Do you mean a girlfriend who is old, or a previous girlfriend? Also how long was she there? Nice description of the hat though.
</p>Shibboleth on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/10#post-5017984
Tue, 28 May 2013 09:49:38 +0000Shibboleth5017984@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p><blockquote>I hope this goes some way to clearing up some of the issues raised in this thread.. </blockquote></p>
<p>How's about "Cervelo" on one side and "Pinarello" on the other?</p>
<p>Back to those points made by Specialized. It's nothing but PR drivel. Yes, they recalled thousands of Tarmacs, but what the hell were they doing letting so much dodgy product leave the factory?</p>
<p>I'd put my house on the fact that there was a "Ford Pinto-esque" meeting between company accountants, engineers and number crunchers before any recall was made!</p>
<p>And all these horror stories that their PR mill keeps churning out, where are all these people with broken teeth? Are Ribble, Planet X, Onix and all the other UK brands that sell generic "open mould" Chinese frames getting queues of gravel-rashed, toothless and irate customers bringing back frames with catastrophic failures?</p>
<p>No. And that one frame that consistently and regularly appears on forums due to catastrophic failures, is the Specialized Roubaix! I wouldn't have one given!
</p>yunki on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/10#post-5017837
Tue, 28 May 2013 08:59:02 +0000yunki5017837@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>An old girlfriend of mine went to Thailand for a while, and brought me back the best hat I've ever owned..</p>
<p>A cotton bucket hat, hand stitched, kinda beige and blue, but very natural, earthy tones..<br />
Reversible, with the Nike logo on one side and Adidas the other..</p>
<p>I hope this goes some way to clearing up some of the issues raised in this thread..
</p>charlie the bikemonger on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/10#post-5017815
Tue, 28 May 2013 08:51:26 +0000charlie the bikemonger5017815@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>Back to sunnies, I bought some old stock oakleys, they were fake, wrong markings on the inside of the arm, and had failed a UV test at the local opticians.</p>
<p>The eBay tosser selling them insisted they were real and threatened me with legal action for pointing it out to him. So I would conclude people who deal in fakes are tossers, be it frames or sunnies.
</p>tpbiker on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/10#post-5013600
Sun, 26 May 2013 10:02:11 +0000tpbiker5013600@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>wow...nine pages, might as well get my tuppence in.</p>
<p>There is no way on earth I would consider a 'copy' frame. As someone pointed out way back on page one if someone is happy to infinge the law then lets face it, they're probably not to be trusted when it comes to rigourous testing of their product. Yes it might be safe, but do I want that lingering shred of doubt in the back of my mind at 40 miles an hour? I care far to much about my pretty face...</p>
<p>Don't care in the slightest about the 'morality' of it if I'm honest. Yes I'm sure counterfeiting funds crime, harms genuine companies etc etc. But if I was to take a moral stance on everything I bought then I wouldn't be able to buy much, least not from Apple, Amazon, Nike, Nestle, shell, Bp, RBS etc etc etc. Crooks the lot of them.
</p>oldgit on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5013362
Sun, 26 May 2013 07:50:28 +0000oldgit5013362@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>I have a bit of an issue with fake anythings. My trade (electrical) is awash with fakes, whilst I can't recall a death there certainly has been load of fires.<br />
It amazes me the length the forgers go to to produce a looky likey and it's packaging.<br />
But the big problem is fakes getting into the main market. All's well with a fake while it's just sitting there, but come the day when you're limbs/life depends on it, would you trust it?<br />
Here's a sample from my trade, inside of a circuit breaker.<br />
<img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9X-OeMoPyTM/T8jgVPzVGAI/AAAAAAAAAM0/f4RB9ldMv38/s1600/1277710967638_hz-myalibaba-web6_7593.JPG"><br />
This little baby just sits there keeping you safe, it looks passive but it isn't.<br />
Here's a fake.<br />
<img src="http://www.clipsal.com.au/trade/__data/page/9422/img-product.jpg"><br />
The modern equivalent of a 6" nail between the terminals, when things go pear shaped your house is going to get very hot, but on the bright side you would have saved a few bob.<br />
Don't be part of this whole thing
</p>compositepro on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5013289
Sun, 26 May 2013 07:04:56 +0000compositepro5013289@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>3 out of 5 failures in test?
</p>charlie the bikemonger on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5013229
Sun, 26 May 2013 05:30:24 +0000charlie the bikemonger5013229@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>"He said Specialized had put the fake frames through its quality control protocols and they failed the fatigue and impact tests. In a couple of cases the aluminium head tube cups had debonded from the frame, which could have led to catastrophic steering failure while riding. </p>
<p>“It’s a matter of time before someone gets killed on one of these things,” he said. “You could count on the fingers of one hand the failures we had on carbon Tarmacs and recalled 12,000 bikes and gave people huge credits. The counterfeiters have no allegiance beyond getting past the sale moment, and that’s where it stops.”"</p>
<p>Source... <a href="http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/fake-bike-kit-costing-industry-millions-a-year-37212/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/fake-bike-kit-costing-industry-millions-a-year-37212/</a></p>
<p>You are also getting fake components turn up at the legit brands warranty office. Which suggests that people believe they are buying a legit brand product.
</p>charlie the bikemonger on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5013220
Sun, 26 May 2013 04:54:51 +0000charlie the bikemonger5013220@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>Have the frames considered by the OP been tested and certified?</p>
<p>Here's an article that says bike manufacturers pay $500 for a frame when buying in bulk.... So a frame retailing at £400 sounds too good to be true.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/light-composite-bikes-made-in-china-slammed-by-uci-execs/011462" rel="nofollow">http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/light-composite-bikes-made-in-china-slammed-by-uci-execs/011462</a></p>
<p>Have these frames been EU tested?<br />
Is it legal to sell these frames in to Europe?<br />
What if they fail whilst racing and you lose your teeth?
</p>amedias on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5010354
Fri, 24 May 2013 15:34:37 +0000amedias5010354@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>You could well be right grum, I've seen it mentioned on a BBC news snippet, and a couple of other sites not affiliated with the industry, but that doesn't make it any more true!
</p>amedias on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5010338
Fri, 24 May 2013 15:27:07 +0000amedias5010338@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p><blockquote>Ooooh dear another one who cant read. Not at all is this the theme of my posts. if you too the time to read, and more importantly understand the words, you would see that the distrust is of counterfeit goods. If I would distrust all Chinese goods, i would have a pretty hard time buying anything eh? Einstein?</blockquote></p>
<p>Sorry If I misunderstood, you know how it is on t'internet, but that was the impression I was getting, now whether that's a result of poor comprehension on my part or poor explanation on your part is open for debate <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_wink.gif" title=";-)" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p>
<p>I think I should also stress that I think there is a difference between 'counterfeit' and 'copy', maybe not legally, but one implies intent to deceive, where as the other merely to replicate.</p>
<p>Counterfeit to me suggests that the intention is to pass the object off as something it is not, to deceive, for financial gain at the expense of the purchaser and carries with it all the other concerns of questionable practices that somebody doing that would be involved in.</p>
<p>Copy suggests an attempt to replicate another design due to the positive aspects of the original design, and does not imply that the copy will necessarily be of inferior quality, or that the intention is to deceive.</p>
<p><blockquote>let me guess errmmmm london metropolitan university?</blockquote></p>
<p>not even close, and why bother trying to speculate like that, it was you that started the 'My science stick is bigger...' tangent, nobody else cares and it's not relevant and detracts for the topic.
</p>grum on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5010331
Fri, 24 May 2013 15:23:43 +0000grum5010331@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p><blockquote>If I have time later I might go digging to see if I can find some, I've read about some studies, cannot for the life of me remember where or when, and the logic of UV being cumulatively bad for skin and eyes (well documented and established) and the fact that when using tints pupils dilate to compensate suggests it is a legit concern but you've sown the seed of doubt now so I should do the proper thing and go investigate!</blockquote></p>
<p>I'm not saying it's not true, it makes logical sense I suppose - it's just that I've only ever seen it written either on sites trying to sell you (expensive) sunglasses, or from what sounds like people repeating what they've heard on those sites. I've never seen a link to an actual study.</p>
<p>The cynic in me thinks that it's probably not as much of a big deal as it's often made out to be.
</p>amedias on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5010314
Fri, 24 May 2013 15:15:30 +0000amedias5010314@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p><blockquote>I'd like some evidence that wearing tinted glasses that aren't UV protective causes damage - do you have some?</blockquote></p>
<p>not easily to hand no.</p>
<p>If I have time later I might go digging to see if I can find some, I've read about some studies, cannot for the life of me remember where or when, and the logic of UV being cumulatively bad for skin and eyes (well documented and established) and the fact that when using tints pupils dilate to compensate suggests it is a legit concern but you've sown the seed of doubt now so I should do the proper thing and go investigate!</p>
<p>I'm enjoying this thread, I do love a good scrap/debate and there's some quite strong opinions from both sides on a multitude of intertwined topics, good fun <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_smile.gif" title=":-)" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p>chief9000 on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5010295
Fri, 24 May 2013 15:09:44 +0000chief90005010295@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p><blockquote><br />
amedias - Member<br />
The over-riding theme from most of your posts is that you simply do not trust Chinese goods and that no amount of evidence or shared experiences will sway you.</blockquote></p>
<p>Ooooh dear another one who cant read. <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_eek.gif" title="8O" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> Not at all is this the theme of my posts. if you too the time to read, and more importantly understand the words, you would see that the distrust is of counterfeit goods. If I would distrust all Chinese goods, i would have a pretty hard time buying anything eh? Einstein? </p>
<p>let me guess errmmmm london metropolitan university?
</p>grum on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5010278
Fri, 24 May 2013 15:05:08 +0000grum5010278@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p><blockquote>Actually there's a little thing called The Law which says it is.</blockquote></p>
<p>The law says that buying 'Okley' sunglasses is <em>exactly</em> the same as buying a stolen bike? Can you point me to the specific law that says that please?</p>
<p><blockquote>Do you wear a fake Rolex and drive an old BMW with fake M3 badge?</blockquote></p>
<p>Nope. The Fakelys are the only copy item I own. So again, am I a valued customer of all the dozens (hundreds?) of genuine products I own, or am I a scummy, immoral, thieving toe rag for buying a cheap replica of some ludicrously expensive sunglasses that I would never dream of buying, that make me look like a tit? <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_smile.gif" title=":)" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p>thisisnotaspoon on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5010249
Fri, 24 May 2013 14:55:25 +0000thisisnotaspoon5010249@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p><blockquote>Actually there's a little thing called The Law which says it is.</p>
<p></blockquote></p>
<p>Funny that, I'm pretty sure that the act of buying fakes isn't against the law. CAB is a bit wooly about "committing a crime if you buy fake goods abroad", but I think that refers to the local law not UK. Selling fakes is illegal, but buying a frame from China for your own use isn't AFAIK. Whereas steeling definately is.</p>
<p><blockquote>Do you wear a fake Rolex and drive an old BMW with fake M3 badge? Classy that is. </p>
<p></blockquote></p>
<p>The seats in my C-max 1.6 say 'RS' on the stiching. Not sure if this will harm any children or baby robins though.
</p>Shibboleth on "Chinese "Replica" Frames"http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chinese-replica-frames/page/9#post-5010240
Fri, 24 May 2013 14:50:55 +0000Shibboleth5010240@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/<p>What on earth is the relevance of that photo???
</p>