How about sick people being able to get insurance? They do kinda need it, after all.

Keeping children on their parents' plan til age 26...not good?

Forcing providers to clearly lay out benefits in an easily comparable format? Is that not a good thing for consumers?

Limiting unreasonable yearly caps?

I'm failing to see the evil. Can anyone fill me in?

Sweet heart deals/exemptions for labor unions, doesn't apply to Federal workers (or elected officials). Did the President volunteer to give up his gold plated health care and go buy stuff on an exchange?

The President basically bought off a lot of "no" votes...maybe not evil, but, well, transparently unfair ?

I think a big part of the problem is how we consume information now. We have the ability to so selectively filter the stuff that comes to us that it makes it so easy to hear just what we want to hear.
It allows crazy narratives to be set.
Take the rights take on Obama Care, they are trying to set a native about big government control. Which of course is crazy. Nope here in America we love to try and do wacky private **** paid for with public money. We love having a for profit middleman. In this case insurance companies you know those lovable guys.

Its not government health care its private health care paid for with tax dollars.
But that is not the narrative that gets set oh no cause who wants to hear the truth?

I think a big part of the problem is how we consume information now. We have the ability to so selectively filter the stuff that comes to us that it makes it so easy to hear just what we want to hear.
It allows crazy narratives to be set.
Take the rights take on Obama Care, they are trying to set a native about big government control. Which of course is crazy. Nope here in America we love to try and do wacky private **** paid for with public money. We love having a for profit middleman. In this case insurance companies you know those lovable guys.

Its not government health care its private health care paid for with tax dollars.
But that is not the narrative that gets set oh no cause who wants to hear the truth?

Nobody, apparently. It's not sexy, it's not "extreme", it's not Miley Cyrus acting like a caprine doe in heat.

Government health care would be all health care workers working for the government.

Just ask the guys who (attempt) to depend on the VA for their health care how well that works...not so well most of the time.

Government health care would be all health care workers working for the government.

Just ask the guys who (attempt) to depend on the VA for their health care how well that works...not so well most of the time.

Works pretty well in Canada and other places, better than the current US system both based on cost and average health outcomes. Far from perfect and not feasible to move that way for the US, but them's the facts.

Nobody, apparently. It's not sexy, it's not "extreme", it's not Miley Cyrus acting like a caprine doe in heat.

Government health care would be all health care workers working for the government.

Just ask the guys who (attempt) to depend on the VA for their health care how well that works...not so well most of the time.

Yep exactly, yet the problem is people mostly on the right want to paint the ACA as goverment healthcare along with all the issues it entails. Its not goverment health care any more then WIC is goverment food. Yet we have seen the comercials spreading the fear that going to the dr. Is going to be like going to the DMV.

Obviously a big enough part of one side in order to cause a shut down. So lets not act like this is two congressmen its quite a few.

I didn't say it wasn't quite a few. I said it was a minority, and it is. You can tell it's a minority by the fact that they won't allow the Senate resolution to come to a vote. If they could vote it down, they would; they can't because they're a minority.

It is a budget issue they are asking to defund a line on the budget that they think is important this same **** has happened with the other 17 shut downs of the government. Issues included defense spending, over spending, abortion, ect...

I didn't say it wasn't a budget-related issue.

They have also moved to strike down this law 40+ times, this is their right as representatives of their districts.

Yes it is. But that's not what this is.

What happened the next election cycle to those democrats? That tells you if its acceptable or not. Not you idealism.
Same thing with this if the people that they actually represent have a problem with this than they will go away. If not who are you to judge.

This argument could be used against every individual political opinion ever in the exact same way.

Works pretty well in Canada and other places, better than the current US system both based on cost and average health outcomes. Far from perfect and not feasible to move that way for the US, but them's the facts.

I hear Canadians complaining about their health care system all the time. They come down to the US (I live 30 miles from the border) all the time for health care, to get surgery they would have to wait in line for in Canada... the wealthier Canadians I know have their own doctors...

Yep exactly, yet the problem is people mostly on the right want to paint the ACA as goverment healthcare along with all the issues it entails. Its not goverment health care any more then WIC is goverment food. Yet we have seen the comercials spreading the fear that going to the dr. Is going to be like going to the DMV.

They are engaging in politics to try to win the battle. Both sides do it, depending on the issues.

It's disgusting and pathetic. There is too much to gain apparently by staying in office and jerking off rather than really trying to solve the problem(s). On both sides.

Personally, I think term limits are a valid answer to consider. Plus, no government health care or benefits for elected officials after they are out of office. No working as/for a lobbyist for 4 years after leaving office. Put the public service back in public service...

I didn't say it wasn't quite a few. I said it was a minority, and it is.

Yep and we wisely set up our government in a manner that allows the minority to protect itself. To keep the minority from being steam rolled.

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

You can tell it's a minority by the fact that they won't allow the Senate resolution to come to a vote. If they could vote it down, they would; they can't because they're a minority.

Its the senate that has been voting no on the house budget so what does that tell you about the make up of the house? Not as much of the minority as you would like to believe.

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

Yes it is. But that's not what this is.

Its exactly what this is, more childish behavior from one side about one stupid issue. This is their last resort, after this, it goes into effect and they are afraid its going to be successful than there whole time in congress pissing and moaning about this one issue is going to get them all(some) kicked out.

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

This argument could be used against every individual political opinion ever in the exact same way.

I hear Canadians complaining about their health care system all the time. They come down to the US (I live 30 miles from the border) all the time for health care, to get surgery they would have to wait in line for in Canada... the wealthier Canadians I know have their own doctors...

Anyway, I know, you didn't say it was perfect.

Not transportable to the US for sure.

Yes, we complain, and yes it needs improvement. But if you get hit with the big C or some other critical and expensive problem, you're still taken care of whether you work in upper management or lower maintenance. It's not the horrible thing US conservatives make it out to be and it generally works pretty well. The critical thing is to implement such a thing without a huge and entrenched system where a lot of people stand to lose money through change, which would be the US.