DNA Rumors, Analyze This!

In midst of ennui as most are awaiting the Anthony trial some have the proclivity to incite rumors in hopes of a tad bit of excitement to fill the void. Unfortunately today’s 16 minute hearing provided little enthusiasm as Judge Perry forced Jose Baez’s hand to provide State prosecutor Jeff Ashton with a list of his expectations to his ruling in the matter of disclosure of forensic expert testimony.

Of the thirteen defense experts, he ordered Baez & Co. to comply by sending Ashton written statements from each expert stating their qualifications, field of expertise, specific subject matter, substance of facts and a summary & grounds for their opinion. In totality the hearing was mundane at best.

In search of noteworthy information I came across a staggering rumor in blogdom concerning DNA results and an impending scandalous shocker. While attempting to get to the crux of the rumor I came across a blog authored by Seamus Oriley.blogspot.com.

The heading of his site reads;

Statement Analysis – Statement Analysis of famous cases including Casey Anthony, Misty Croslin, OJ, Michael Jackson, Tiger Woods, and others. All parties are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. All opinions expressed here are personal opinions and represent only the author of these opinions and not any business, government agency, or individual person other than the author.

To his credit, he admits his site is based on opinion which says to me “for entertainment purposes only” as I’m sure most will agree. If not for the fact that he’s made quite a derogatory accusation in which he could be held liable if Jose Baez sought retribution I would say it’s comical. Although I must admit, I do find the mention of Jesse Grund somewhat intriguing.

In what appears to be the worst possible attempt on the part of the Casey Anthony “dream turned nightmare team” to falsely accuse yet another innocent person, an uncomfirmed report says that a scandal may be emerging, that if true, will have long term ramifications for the defense.

There is no confirmation yet from WFTV, WESH, or other news agencies. Internet rumor?

We will update.

In an uncomfirmed report, it may be that someone on the defense team or within the family, perhaps private investigator, Dominic Casey, (or Lee Anthony?) under the direction of Jose Baez and/or Cindy Anthony, sought to plant DNA evidence from Jesse Grund, on to the body of Caylee Anthony, while her remains were yet to be found.

The report says that either Baez, or the family, sent the private investigator to to the place where Casey dumped Caylee in order to taint the body with some collected DNA evidence from Jesse Grund, former fiance of Casey Anthony.

This tells us that not only did they know where the body was (Statement Analysis previously concluded that Cindy Anthony knew where the body was the day she kicked Tim Miller out of her home), but that their planning was, perhaps, the reason why Lee Anthony refused to be polygraphed and urged his family to do the same.

Question: Are there any linguistic indicators to suggest that this report may be true?

“They must by saying that Casey must have been so calculated that she was able to put Caylee’s remains down there without any any any link to her. There’s no fibers, there’s no hair, there’s no DNA there’s no fingerprints of Caseys or anyone in our family. ”

Why did “family” and “DNA” enter into Cindy Anthony’s vocabulary while talking about the location of Caylee’s remains?

In light of the latest report, the inclusion of DNA on Caylee’s remains is haunting.

Note also that within this statement by Cindy is amazing details of what likely is exactly what Casey did. It shows an acute awareness of fibers, hair and DNA. Recall that Cindy Anthony boasted that she gave the FBI the wrong hairbrush, deliberately, in order to throw them off Casey’s trail. Our words reveal us; Cindy is no exception.

What if the report is true?

If the report turns out to be true, we can expect to see blame everywhere: beginning with Dominic Casey blaming Cindy Anthony or Jose Baez, and should move on to Baez blaming others. Eventually, investigators will speak to Casey Anthony, herself.

Who would Casey choose?

Casey Anthony’s hatred of Cindy Anthony is part of the comlex motive of the murder, but what has become of her relationship with Jose Baez?

When Baez was on Geraldo, he was asked if he had an “inappropriate relationship” with Casey Anthony.

Regardless of who she might choose, prosecutors will not likely believe her and will have to verify anything and everything Casey Anthony says.

Many have long felt that Cindy Anthony would face justice, one day, in her part of covering up, lying, and destroying evidence in attempts to save her daughter. These attempts include testifying under oath that Caylee is alive (and living in Brooklyn, NY) and that Jesse Grund was the killer. Richard Grund, Jesse’s father, has struggled to maintain his composure in light of false accusations against his son.

Bloggernews.net should have more information as it breaks, and we will continue to cover the analysis of any statements.

Hello JB, I was going to repost what Peter has written but I have made plenty of mistakes before. I am going to hold out on this one. Something tells me it’s not ready to leave the oven, if you know what I mean. Yes it sound good. But my gut tells me HOLD ON..

I’ll admit it is entertaining, and I don’t put it past Jose’ and company to do something so underhanded, he lies in open court!

But… I will not entertain that there is any truth to this rumor unless it is reported by a credible source, which blogs are not.

Fortunately, the blogs I frequent are not reporting this as truth, and all commenters are waiting to see if the speculation is just that.

====================
grownyoungmom,
Well I’m glad to hear that! Sometimes I sense commenters don’t wait for to hear news from a credible source. They take speculation and run with it. That’s very commendable of you especially at a young age.
Thanks for stopping by.
JB

Hi JB. Rumors seem to be very popular in this case, always claimed to come from some mysterious inside source, huh? It looks like this rumor came from Simon Barrett and Cobra. It looks like some want to come check you out but some are saying wordpress blogs are dangerous.

Quite the classic rumor. It’s one that that has surfaced several times on the net. It is also one of the ones I have referred to in a earlier post about the defense throwing one of the family under the bus. Reasonable doubt is the avenue the defense has long established as part of their case. So it does not sound far fetched.

To the best of my knowledge Peter Hyatt aka/Seamus O…has never testified in a court of law for statement analysis….it’s a hobby that he has put much time into. To be fair, his thoughts are like mine, JB, Zub, etc. We all have opinions and there are thousands of blogs to voice them. JB’s blog is one of those with many gifted people.

Hazaka, the rumor that Baez had someone plant Jesse Grund’s DNA with Caylee so their expert can find it and clear Casey of 1st degree murder, framing him for the murder. See what JB wrote above. I believe Simon Barret is the start of this rumor chain because I see that Peter Hyatt commented to thank him for this valuable rumor here: http://www.bloggernews.net/125702

Damagdpets, are you saying you don’t think it is too far fetched that Baez or the family would plant someone’s DNA?

I’ve never thought that Richard Grund was a victim. Victim of what? He’s the father of Jesse Grund, ex-boyfriend/fiancee of Casey who has acted inappropriately in the past. His son Jesse once thought that Caylee was his biological daughter and later found through DNA testing was not. I think it’s reasonable, considering the circumstances that he was looked at in this murder case. Yes, LE tapped his phone but they tapped Tony Lazarro’s too and we don’t hear him yelling “victim”.
After reviewing Richard Grund’s background, I’d say he’s a leans a little on the histrionic side and has an extreme behavioral pattern. JMHO as always.

Zub, It’s not far fetched…just another possibility in the realm matching the case. It’s also something that could raise reasonable doubt. There is more than enough documentation in the lies and subterfuge this family has displayed. It’s easily notable from their interviews and depos that they conspired to lie and hinder the investigation. Mind you I am not saying they conspired to commit murder. It’s just another plausible scenario that might have a little more meat than Zanny, Jeff and Juliet. Remember what I said about not being right or wrong? If LE, The FBI, PA Office, Defense Investigators and people like you with great investigative abilities can’t find these people…I have to conclude they don’t exist. I do believe the defense will use as many scenarios as possible to create doubt…that’s their job.

I’m sorry Damagd but I disagree. The only reason I addressed this rumor is because my name and this site was mentioned on the Topix.Orlando blog. To say that an attorney would do this is taking this to an entirely different level. I find it extremely libelous. It would be the same to say LE has planted the hair with the death band, story at Ten. Would you believe that? Of course not.
You say Baez would do this to “raise reasonable doubt”? I think it’s more like automatic acquittal and new arrest. If that’s what some want to believe they should be careful of what they wish for.

Oh really Hazaka? I had no idea..it’s new to me. I did hear that some thought Casey went to Jesse to fetch some DNA to plant near the body but this is the first time I ever heard that Jose Baez was in the mix.
Hazaka as you know, desperate people do desperate things.

JB, Please read my comment again….”just another possibility “. This is nothing more or less than the multitude of names and possibilities that have come up on this site. Just as Ashton has been marked for life for something that happened along time ago….I don’t think it’s been mentioned here that Baez held back information in his last murder trial because of lack of participation in discovery.

Maybe I have watched too many cases. Defense attorneys are often libelous at trial. Why do you think half of the rapes in this country are never reported? Defense attorneys in these cases do anything and everything to destroy a woman’s character. The DA will show they are the victim and the defense will go out of their way to prove they were promiscuous and invited consensual activity. To believe that Baez and Mason will not pull out any and all stops to defend KC is to believe they are not doing their job. They have told us several times.

Hazak, You are correct…This rumor is over 2 years old. I have read it on more than one blog. The reason I think it is showing up again is because of the lack of media frenzy. There is not much printed in the media unless a doc dump happens. Bloggers need something to keep them going in order to keep the lynch mob mentality.

Damagd,
I’m not that naive to not know what happens in rape cases when they go to trial. For an attorney to claim sex was consensual in a rape case is one thing but to say an attorney broke the law is another. Tampering with evidence in a murder case is a grievous matter which is a felony in some states. With that said, I doubt that there’s any truth in the rumor. IMO, it’s just wishful thinking because we’re awaiting DNA results.
Like I posted earlier, it’s like the lynch mob is saying, “let’s suit up” just in case Jesse Grund’s DNA is found but I really doubt that will be the case. JMO

Damagdpets, I too think it is going a little too far to say it is reasonable that a defense attorney would plant false evidence, and not far fetched. We have no reason to think that Baez has done anything like this do we? By saying, “I don’t think it’s been mentioned here that Baez held back information in his last murder trial because of lack of participation in discovery.”, do you mean that he didn’t participate in the reciprocal discovery process? If so, he isn’t obligated to turn anything over and that wouldn’t be called “withholding evidence”, would it? Besides, I don’t look at the defense as having the same moral or ethical obligation as the prosecutor. The laws of man may say otherwise but every accused has the right to face their accusor head on and can’t do that unless they know exactly what they are claiming far enough in advance of the trial to prepare a thought out defense.

As for the multiple CSC-rape cases, I know people on both sides of that issue. As recent as the 70s women the scales of justice were horribly out of balance, the woman still considered the property of her husband, woman treated like the criminal rather than the victim. The woman’s rights movement did a lot to get that changed and get the respect for a woman’s right to not be molested against her will to be honored within the judicial system. The problem is, when ever a social issue is so far out of balance, as this issue has been for thousands of years, it is very difficult to get the scales balanced correctly. It is so deeply ingrained, because of the genetic predisposition for generation after generation, that it takes severe and extreme shifts to begin to tip the scales the other way. Maybe it is a little like a genetic mutation that is required but we know that mutations have a way of going haywire sometimes, like cancer cells that get out of control. What has happened, in this attempt to force a tip in the scales, is that woman are automatically believed, most of the time. Sometimes a woman lets this new found power go to her head and their is a misuse of power. If she is ashamed of herself she may claim the advance was unwanted. If she has been hurt in love she may lash out at the first man she has contact with that makes an advance or she may make the advance herself and change her mind. She may be a young girl that is pregnant and needs to make herself a victim to avoid her families shame or condemnation so the father or even a different guy becomes her scapegoat. She may be a young girl in love but her parents aren’t ready to admit their little girl is growing up and has a mind of her own. Yes, there are many, many of those registering as sex offenders. The scales have been forced so hard that they’ve dipped extremely the other way and we are no better off than when no man was prosecuted for rape because boys will be boys and a man has a right to beat and rape his wife. Now, a woman can cry wolf repeatedly and her word is as good as gold. This is a misguided attempt to right the scales and make up for all that time of injustice, but it isn’t justice at all. Consensual sex is labeled the same as 1st degree rape, criminal sexual conduct and all are made to register the same. I apologize for going on but this is a subject I’ve thought a lot about and have a lot of information on. In the last 30 years I only know of one case, personally, where the girl was treated the way you say. This case was a teenage white girl that was known to hang with African Americans and she wasn’t taken seriously because of LE prejudice.

Thank you Zuben for your thought provoking comment. The way sex crimes are treated in courts today is one of my pet peeves.
I happen to know a young man who dated a girl for 3 years. They met when he was 15 and she was 14. As she grew up her parents were having the typical adolescent drug problems with their daughter and decided to seek help through a family therapist.
At the time she was 16 & a few months and her boyfriend was 18. During a session with the therapist she admitted she was having sex with her boyfriend. Because of the girl’s age, the father was informed by the therapist that she was having sex with her boyfriend. Her father took this info to LE and had the boy arrested. He was found guilty of statutory rape of a minor.
He’s now 27years old, married to someone else and has 2 children and because of this innocent so-called crime he has to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. How’s that for justice? He’s has trouble getting jobs and he’ll never be able to coach his son’s peewee league baseball team.

JB, your friend is just one of many thousands. It’s just wrong. Oh, and don’t forget that there are touching violations that are treated the same as 1st degree rape too. They’re all CSC convictions, requiring registration. Hey, if you don’t like your History teacher, claim he touched you and put him away. I just looked up the age of consent where you are, 17. Many places it is 16. But look at this. http://www.webistry.net/jan/consent.html In Mississippi, the magic age is 16 but if she is over 12, it only applies to virgins. In Kentuky it is 16 also, but only if the man is 21 or older. Give me a brake They decide how much age difference is ok? Keep in mind that in times past a girl was married long before 18. But in some states, the age of consent is 18. In Idaho and Hawaii it is 14. Native Hawaiians probably follow the natural laws and the law seems to be following suit. I know most children are being raised to be children for many years after puberty but their bodies rebel against that, all too often.

Oh, by the way, our tax money goes to Planned Parenthood, who for decades had given underage girls birth control without parental consent or knowledge. So, our tax money helps them have safe sex, avoid pregnancy, then puts the sperm donor away, creating jobs and bringing in more revenue.

JB, The story you related…..This has happened alot more than anyone realizes. In most states the legislature have written the laws so tight that there is not room allowed for case by case basis. Age of consent varies but really does not matter according to how laws are written.

Just want to clear up: My comment about evidence tampering had more to do with the Anthonys than Baez. It would not be the first time an attorney has done something to alter evidence in a case. There was an article in the New York Times about manipulation of DNA material by all. Their are cases listed on the web….

Zub,
Nilton Diaz filed appeals because Baez held out evidence in his murder trial that could have been used in court. When Baez pulled this evidence in court during the murder trial the judge would not allow it because it was not submitted in discovery. Needless to say, Nilton Diaz was not granted another trial but that’s not the point. The fact that evidence was with held and could have been used should even piss you off……it does me…regardless of the out come. The justice system has rules….Baez did not follow such then and has to be brought to court yesterday to be reminded of same.

Thanks for clarifying Damagd, I’m sorry I misread your comment. As for the Ants and If they had a part in this case is more plausible than Baez. I’m just always shocked by people who would claim such nonsense just to garner attention and have nothing to back it up.
Where’s the honesty?

JB @ 7:59 Definately overkill! The girl was a minor but I think it needs to be taken into consideration the circumstances. Girls can be the aggressive one, she should have been as responsible for herself as he is expected to be. I don’t know if “rape” should have been a part of it unless the girl filed their relationship as such. Fathers sometimes have a hard time accepting that their little girl would be doing such a thing and by his having the boy arrested it makes his daughter look innocent all the way around. They all differ of course. In the case you mention it is not right that he carries this on his back forever. What happens if the boy is also a minor. Two minors can have sex and it’s ok? It’s going on all the time.

Well hello everyone and Happy Holidays, just popped in for a minute do not get to read blogs much ,too busy. IMO this isjust what it states just a rumor, and I do not think it is true. I do think Cindy did some things she may get in trouble for but time will tell. George not at the last 2 hearings wonder why. JB sure made a mistake for not turning over what he
was suppose to I think JP not happy with any of these people and we will begin to see smack down for all and spanking for the kids that do not mind,lol.

Hi Comment & diane,
It’s a cold & windy day here..nothing to do but watch football and maybe later I’ll get to do some shopping.
Comment,
As far as I know the girl was not in agreement with her father but because she was minor, nothing she said mattered. I’m not sure but I believe the LA Supreme Court is trying to change this part of the law making it not necessary to register as sex offender in some cases. It’s a delicate matter but hopefully they’ll find a solution to this problem.

diane, hello,
I’m sure it’s a rumor too. I’m appalled by it really that’s why I posted this article to open discussion. Put it in the open so it doesn’t seem so mysterious. I think IF Cindy had done anything underhanded she would have been arrested by now and so would anyone else.
The way I saw Judge Perry actions was he wasn’t really annoyed with the defense because he knew WHY they needed clarification. I say this because there’s always been a problem with the State not handing over discovery on a timely basis since day one of this case.
Look how long it took to get discovery on the maintenance man Juan Gonzalez from Sawgrass Apts. It took the State two years to hand over that little tidbit to the Defense so I think there’s more to come with disclosure & discovery issues. JMO as always.
Happy Holidays to you too diane. Be safe.

Damagdpets, I hadn’t read anything about the Diaz case. Of course, that is wrong, if that is in fact, what happened. I just tracked down the Lake county record and see that originally an attorney So filed an appearance then Baez entered notice as co-council after Attny Naratil filed a substitution. He would be the lead, so I would assume the lead council was calling the shots. I do notice that mostly Baez, Chasen sometimes, is listed for depo’s hearnings and motions. But, what has me needing more information before I can judge Baez guilty of this is this entry in the court record.

10/3/2007 268 DEFT NOT PRESENT FOR MOTION HEARING-REPRES BY ATTY BAEZ WHO APPEARED BY PHONE FOR DEFT’S MOTION TO COMPEL AND STATE’S MOTION TO CONTINUE TRIAL. COURT GRANTS STATE’S MOTION TO CONTINUE TRIAL, COURT INSTRUCTS DEFENSE TO RE-SET THEIR MOTION TO COMPEL, COURT INSTRUCTS STATE THAT THEY MUST GIVE THE DEFENSE THEIR WITNESS/WITNESSES REGARDING THE BIO-MECHANICAL ENGINEER BY 10-17-07 BY 5:00 PM. PER COURT NO OTHER ADDITIONAL WITNESSES BY EITHER STATE OR DEFENSE WILL BE ALLOWED W/OUT COURT’S APPROVAL/ORDER

The state was still handing over discovery and being compelled to turn over discovery they had been refusing to, 1 year 8 months after he was first arrested. They asked for a continuance and the issue of a bui-mechanical engineer and it is up to the court to allow or deny any further witnesses being added to the list after this point. Then there is this entry, that makes me wonder if the witness he wants excluded is the Bio-mechanical engineer that Diaz this was his star witness. Notice the judge doesn’t make the defendant appear at important hearings like Perry does. If he doesn’t know or have the ability to understand that could be why the denial of his appeal based on ineffective council.

12/6/2007 284 DEFT NOT PRESENT FOR MOTION HEARING-REPRES BY ATTY BAEX (ATTY BAEZ APPEARED BY TELEPHONE) FOR DEFENSE 1) MOTION TO EXCLUDE WITNESS AND 2) UNOPPOSED MOTION TO COMPEL. COURT HOLDS RULING AS TO #1 MOTION IN ABEYANCE UNTIL PROFFER IS MADE AND COURT GRANTS #2 MOTION-DEFENSE TO PREPARE ORDER WITH SPECIFIC CONDITIONS MADE BY COURT. TRIAL SET FOR 4-21-08, COURT INSTRUCTS ASA GROSS’ SECRETARY TO PREPARE TRIAL ORDER

Very late in the game they added 1st degree murder to the jury’s choices.

1/11/2008 292 DEFT NOT PRESENT FOR GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS (OUT ON $100,000.00 BOND ON THIS CASE – ORIGINAL CHARGE) – STATE REPRESENTED BY WILLIAM GROSS ASA – JOSE A BAEZ ESQ AS DEFENSE COUNSEL WAS NOT PRESENT – CASE IS TRANSFERRED TO 04 DOCKET UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF JUDGE NACKE – QUORUM WAS MET – UNAMIMOUS DECISION – GRAND JURY RETURNED WITH AN INDICTMENT AS TO CT I – AGGRAVATED CHILD ABUSE; AND CT II – MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE – FELONY MURDER – BOND WAS SET AT $100,000.00 (SAME – NO NEW BOND) – NO CAPIAS WAS ORDERED

Did you know a Human Rights watch group was communicating with the court after his conviction? There are many entries relating to them. Then this…

He refused to disqualify himself and right after this denied the defendant’s request to be appointed a public defender for appeal even though he had been declared indigent. The judge had told Baez at sentencing he must withdraw as council and Baez did that. Oh, as of August this year it looks like Baez was still trying to get the JAC to pay his costs. Maybe there is something here that is over my head but I’m not convinced at all that Baez had a video by this expert that he refused to hand over in discovery. The only place I read anything like that was at the examiner and I’ve read nothing there yet that I would trust, several things I know weren’t true. Do you have this through a more reliable source?

Comment, if the age of consent is 16, the girl is 15 and the boy is 16 he is guilty of CSC even if it is consensual. Technically they could prosecute him even if he was under 16 but in that case they’d likely try him as a minor and treat it differently.

Hi all… I wonder what blogger name JA uses? He certainly did not
hesitate to make note that he was probably going to be corrected by bloggers..
Well, I would hate to let him down. I could just send it I guess…It took me 5 min to find.. LOL

Forensic Epidemiology :A systematic approach to probabilistic determination in disputed matters..
Ironically Michael Freeman in this paper..(he has authored over 100 papers..books etc)
begins with the case of Susan Clark in the UK that I posted about shortly ago..The Woman
who was charged with murdering her 2 children.

similar in some aspects to the Anthony case as far as the general public..Very publicized…the majority assumed she abused alcohol etc..Had 2 children die..She was found guilty by the “majority”
Found guilty because of a couple reasons..
1. They withheld evidence of some medical issue found with one of the children
2.Sir Roy Meadow’s testimony concerning the probabilities of cot deaths in one family..Sir Roy Meadows being Meadow was a well-known and often-used prosecution witness in similar proceedings, having been the ﬁrst to promulgate the concept of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy in which a parent injures or sickens a child as a means of procuring
medical attention.
The guilty verdict was appealed, based in part on the
problems with Meadow’s statistical claims. The conviction
eventually was overturned when it was found that a witness had failed to reveal evidence that one of the children’s deaths may have been associated with a
Staphylococcus aureus infection, among other problems.

The public attention brought to the Clark case also
focused attention on the lack of validated criteria necessary for a diagnosis of MSbP, with the result that several
murder convictions that had resulted from Meadow’s testimony were reviewed.

Snipped*****Common testimony types involving FE concepts
Probability serves as the basis for many decisions people
make on a daily basis. When one purchases a new DVD
player and opts not to also purchase an extended warranty,
one is evaluating, consciously or subconsciously, a series of
probabilities. Many factors – how much the unit costs,
one’s prior experience with DVD player failure, and how
long one typically keeps electronics before replacing them
with an updated model – aﬀect the decision that it is less
than likely that the expenditure on the warranty is justiﬁed.
If one is given some additional knowledge, for example,
that one out of every three DVD players will require a
costly repair within a year after the manufacturer’s warranty expires, then one can assess the risk one is taking
in not purchasing the warranty.

In a similar fashion, data and terms of probability may
be used to sway judge and jury fact ﬁnders in a forensic setting, because assigning a weight to an opinion is a common
method of strengthening testimony. These opinions aﬀect
how a fact ﬁnder perceives issues such as causation, negligence, and injury severity and prognosis that dictate trial
outcomes.

It is long reading but I found it quite interesting.

Michael Freeman begins this paper with this case and rolls on from there. It is long reading
but interesting.

It is my opinion that this rumor resurfaced because there are many bloggers that are worried about the outcome of the touch dna results. They want to be able to point to the defense for planting evidence. I do not know what they are afraid of. Perhaps they truly believe Baez is evil and he would do something like this if given the opportunity. IIRC, I thought the ME stated that the shorts had some decomp damage. So if something like this happened, it happened at time of decomposition. I think even the LE can’t figure out why Caylee’s shorts were off to the side. It indicates that she was naked from the waist down and no one seems to want to address that. Does LE ever ask for a second opinion? I mean to bring in an independent investigator to access the crime scene before the body is moved? They really should. IMO

Snoop, For clarification are you saying that Dr G may have altered her autopsy or that medical information about Caylee’s life has not been included in any discovery? Maybe I’m missing the whole thing and it’s about a psychological disorder with KC?

Mind you, I would like to preface the above….not by bloggers that mean nothing to this case but by the experts that may or may not testify for this case. It’s safe to say that no matter how much a blogger on the net has contributed, none have been called as a witness in this case…to date. I have read similar scenarios that at this late date are not going to hold water because of the elapsed time and what was presented from the beginning.

NTS, For the sake of argument….Caylee’s bones were not found in one place but spread a part in close proximity. This leads me to believe that at some point an animal(s) got into that bag and dragged things away. With that said…what would prevent a critter from dragging clothes as well as bones? Just a thought…

D, I guess its the ME report that makes me think that. IN that report, she stated that the bones were moved before disarticulation and that is how she was able to say that the body was there at the time of death or shortly after. I think about that and I can’t see how the pelvis gets moved to a different area without taking the shorts with since disarticulation hadn’t happened according to the ME report. When I visualize it, even when it is in a state of decomposition before disarticulation, I just can’t see how that can happen. There were enough large bones left at the Area A site with the skull for the ME to call that the original site of decomposition. Hope that helps you to understand my train of thought.

damagdpets..I am not following you? JA brought up Dr. Freeman who practices Forensic Epidemiology. He said it made no sense in the case as they study communicable diseases..basically. He said he would probably be corrected by bloggers. First of all
IMO that comment about the bloggers, pertained to nothing of the matter. Second of all,he said they had researched Forensic Epidemiology and Dr. Freeman … and it took me little
time to find subject matter on Forensic Epidemiology that goes way beyond diseases?

I made no claims about anything?..I posted some snipped information pertaining to
Dr. Michael Freeman and a paper he authored..with some insight of what he may be testifying to in regards to his title. Which I am sure if JA had researched like he said..
they would have found similar, instead of making it sound so senseless.

NTS..I completely agree about the shorts.
We have been over that NUMEROUS times! Zuben has well theorized with facts about
the shorts. It definitely leaves question.
As far as the “majority” rumor..The “majority” rules? I don’t buy it..even for a moment.
Baez planting DNA?? Anthony’s planting DNA on their deceased granddaughter??? No..I don’t buy it.
And just where and how was this DNA obtained? Oh yeah..KC because she had no where to
go..and needed a shower..went to Jesse’s obtained DNA..somehow preserved it for x number
days somewhere..gave it to her family ..or Baez..when she was arrested ..told them where to find Caylee’s body and then maybe someone then gave it to the PI..or maybe Kronk..and then whomever one of the above planted it. How much sense does that make???????????????????????????????? Jb, I don’t even find it remotely plausible!

If there is DNA on anything it belongs to the person it came from. IMO..And my opinion
is if DNA is found, you have your murderer.
IMO KC did not put 24 month shorts on that child. She was nearly 3 had 3t clothes..and
plenty of them. She by the autopsy report measurements..was bordering closer to age 3-4
4-5 on most.
IMO RG has serious issues. I have my reasons..and quite legitimate reasons for saying
that. I can not and will not get into the specifics here. His son was obsessed with KC.
JG had a bad attitude..and IMO when he got angry at the gun range and threw his ear
gear and broke it ..he was displaying an anger problem. His employee evelauations
showed a lot about his character. I just reviewed them again a couple of nights ago.
RG literally hounded LE and dug up information on anyone KC knew ..and implicated
many that may be suspicious..especially Brandon snow..who might look like Jesse and drive a similar truck. He corresponded frequently with Fox News and they with him.
Also Leanord Padillia. And of course LE. He had everyones Myspace walls..even went into Casey’s back when Jesse was dating her and long after breaking up with her.

He stated they dated once again and broke up and jesee did not see her anymore. Yet Casey had a seizure Nov. 07 after spending the night with Jesse. LE was trying to get Jesee to come interview as he had new info. He was not coming forth..when they called RG offered to come and tell them everything he had. After all was said and done they told him they still needed to talk to Jesse..RG got freaked, he asked..Is Jesse in trouble? He talks about the A’s..but he IMO got overly involved very quickly..and IMO I don’t think he was sure that Jesse did not have some involvement. He told them that Jesse and her friends said when guys would come to her parents home and her parents were gone, that she would leave Caylee unattended with them. How would her friends know that?Why would RG be talking to Casey’s friends in 05? So I am assuming only Jesse told him he was
there with Caylee unattended by Casey? He said Caylee was in the crib..And RG told him
not to do that because if Caylee was a little older it could be trouble. Why would he even say that? RG tries to justify if in any way they can implicate Jesse that it was because Casey set him up. Then the bloggers ran with that. RG gave them multiple names he researched and then LE investigated them. Then bloggers ran with that..You see RG stayed right on top of it.
Not only that..thats how they got Caylee’s DNA Jesse hand delivered the papers to them.
snipped***
JG–UHM, ANOTHER THING THAT SHOULD BE NOTED, THERE WAS A, THERE WAS A PATERNITY TEST THAT WAS DONE UHM, PROVED THAT I WAS NOT CAYLEE’S FATHER. UHM, IT SAID THAT UH, THE ALLELES AND THE COMBINATIONS PROVE THAT THE ALLEGED BIOLOGICAL FATHER IS NOT CAYLEE’S BIOLOGICAL FATHER.

EE–NOW IN THAT, AND THAT CARD THAT YOU ORDERED, AROUND THAT INFORMATION YOU’VE ORDERED IS THE CARD GOING TO BE AVAILABLE FOR CAYLEE?

JG–YES

EE–THE…

JG–ALL OF CAYLEE, ALL OF CAYLEE’S….

EE–HER D…..

JG–…DNA AND…

EE–SO HER DNA WILL BE AVAILABLE TO YOU?

JG–CORRECT. YES

EE–AND THEY SAID THEY WOULD GIVE THAT TO YOU?

JG–YES THEY DID

EE–DNA CARD AVAILABLE. THEN YOU, AS SOON AS YOU GET THAT, GIVE THAT TO ME?

JG–ABSOLUTELY

EE–OKAY. RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND FOR ME BROTHER. DO YOU SWEAR AND AFFIRM THAT EVERYTHING YOU’VE SAID TODAY IS TRUE AND CORRECT?

I have not trusted JG or RG since the beginning! If they are guilty of nothing..they sure
put a lot of effort into making sure everyone knew that. IMO OVERKILL!!
Did JG have anything to do with it? I don’t know. I have nothing to prove it either way.

Snoop, I must have misunderstood you. I thought that the info from the good doctor might have started you on different scenarios. Hence, the questions.

JA researching the good doctor means very little. The original order by Judge Perry was not followed. I think Baez could have gotten away with a lot less but he did not try hard enough. I think that by the new order Baez has to give a lot more than he wanted. I honestly believe he did not have the experts write formal reports and summaries so he could keep the defense strategy a little closer. I never believed it was about $$. The JAC would more than likely pay for the reports. Baez backed himself into this one especially when Perry asked…. when the defense joined in discovery and asked JA how many experts he had that made reports. JA all to date—Baez 0. Perry had to make it right.

RG and JG…The blog world has worked them over pretty good. I kind of see RG like CA trying to protect their children. I’m not sure who has the larger job.

Good morning All,
As for Friday’s hearing, I believe Baez was expecting Jeff Ashton to file a motion to compel written reports. I think Baez and Cheney both wanted SPECIFICS in order not to offer too much.
This is the list and if you noticed, Baez and Cheney were diligently taking notes.
-qualifications,
– field of expertise
-specific subject matter
-substance
-summary & grounds for their opinion
IMO, Ashton should KNOW what the Defense’s experts will testify to. Obviously, the Defense experts are being paid to DISPUTE the evidence the State experts produce.
No explanation should be necessary, IMO. Perhaps the reason the State wants specifics for Dr. Freeman, the ediomologist is because the State doesn’t have an ediomologist. If Ashton wishes to dispute Dr. Freeman then he’ll have to find his own ediomologist, right. So in that case, YES he would need to know what Freeman brings to the table. Ashton doesn’t want to be left standing there like he has eggs to sell.

Snoop,
Do you remember reading “way back when” that RG used to film exorcism’s or something like that? I know he’s a holy roller now but wasn’t he deep into the Dark Side some years ago? I think that’s why find him so weird. He protests too loudly which could just mean he’s a media hog like a few others who’ve cashed in on this murder. Ric Morales, Kio Cruz, Melissa Earnest.. just to name a few, so maybe that’s why he’s been on so many talk shows.
I agree Snoop, he gets defensive much like the Anthony’s I suppose. They’re guilty of protecting their daughter too, right? But they get slammed for it and RG gets a pat on his back when in reality…JG would be the perfect suspect if you think about it. He certainly has more motive than Casey. Here’s a guy who wanted to marry Casey because she was pregnant and later lied to him about Caylee being his daughter. He takes a DNA test which proves he is not the bio-father. I’m feeling some deep seated pain for him now. I’m fairly certain he was devastated by that news especially since Casey had his entire family attached to the child. Then Casey’s acting all Ga-Ga about her new boyfriend Tony Lazarro of New York. She even brings him to a party to meet the guy. He’s blowing up her phone with calls and text msgs and on July 15th, he texts Casey to say he’s leaving town. Am I leaving anything out?
So if anyone is wondering why people are sweating the DNA results, this is why. He’s the perfect suspect.
I hope no one jumps on this post claiming I’m looking for a scapegoat because I’m not. I’m just being honest. I know, why didn’t he just kill Casey then? How do we know he didn’t already try when she had that unexplained seizure at his apartment? Maybe experimenting with chloroform? Just a thought..

Also, James McIntyre has sent an email to the court claiming Caylee is alive and well in California. As I remember from earlier on in the case James was quite the character on the OS blog. If I remember correctly more than a few asked him to seek some help.

Thank you Damagd,
I’ll be sure to tune in. James McIntyre?? Is he still around? Yes, he’s an odd fellow, for sure but there’s something about him that tells me he’s educated. Isn’t he into law or something like that?

JB, Good memory on James McIntyre. He was a Maine attorney that was suspended for manslaughter, motor vehicle homicide in 1989. Was reinstated and the to add insult to injury, a couple of drug charges, suspended again. He has been very colorful over his theories on the Anthony case. The biggest…the remains were not Caylee’s.

I’m not sure about the hearing today. The JAC and Baez will be doing this by phone and I don’t think Casey is to be in court. Hoping there might be an audio feed or we’ll have to wait for an article to come up.

Hi all. Please keep us posted Damagdpets. I seem to be suddenly swamped with work, which is a good thing, I guess.

Did you hear the latest rumor? I’m a woman who has exposed people’s real identities. Now, the only thing I remember doing, just before I pulled up my skirt and curtsied, is to show certain avatar md5 hash values that matched more than one fake name certain bloggers were using, showing they were posting under multiple identities with the same email address, to make themselves feel more important and agreed with (1st part fact, 2nd part MHO). None of those IDs are their real name unless one is legally named Snoopysleuth, MarinadeDave or Feathers. If that is their legal and real name, I certainly apologize but I didn’t reveal a last name or location. But what I don’t get is why anyone is talking about me at all. Am I that much of a threat? I don’t give myself that much credit. Well, lunch is over, must get to work. Have a great day.

The question I bring from my home to further the evolution of earthlings is… If I say I wound a blogger, especially a Flolridian blogger, do I mean I’m tooting my own horn, gave him/her an oral $exual experience or sent him/her into a tailspin? It’s ok to use a good dictionary. Now, for all those that get the first question correct…If I say his winds are offensive do I mean he stinks or he’s a liar? It’s quite hard to know for sure if you are simply reading and not hearing me or putting it into context, isn’t it?

Now on a more serious note, Casey was declared indigent on day one by the court. She was fortunate enough to hook up with someone that wanted to take her case rather than had no choice, sell a few picks and is once again, right back where she started, indigent. Now, the state would have had to supply her with attorneys and fees without those pics. No, she wouldn’t have had Henry Lee, most likely. But, I seem to remember a man from the public defender’s office standing in court telling Strickland to work with Baez because they certainly didn’t have the resources to spare manpower in their office. So, they are paying no attorney fees. I wouldn’t think they would be this nitpicky. It’s as if they are angry that Casey has help. They would have to pay for the expert’s time if it wasn’t for the generosity of those people. What does it matter that that are out of state? It still doesn’t add up to what they would have paid if it were their time and expenses. If you look at it that way, isn’t Ms. Anthony saving the taxpayers’ money? I’d love to know if there is a very complicated case like this one and the public defender gave it his all, what that one cost compared to what has been invested in this defense. It may need to be adjust to normal rates for real world comparison purposes though. It sounds like the JAC pays quite a bit below the norm. How many attorneys only hope to make 40,000 plus benefits?

Zub, Forgive me….All states have different rules on how much they are willing to pay experts and investigators in an indigent case. I would think that with Judge Perry’s experience in court and with the JAC…he would do the best he could under the guidelines to prevent future appeals. I’m pretty sure they have a criteria for giving out these funds.

The good nature part does not fly well with me only because the attorneys and experts have the “opportunity” to make a lot of money selling books after this is over, besides the notoriety they are getting from a high profile case. Baez and Mason are getting millions worth of advertisement right now. An attorney can spend under $100,000 on a commercial but have to spend several hundred thousand on the air time…..

Some video todays hearing…Perry says…. Casey deserves to depose those witnesses..She might not have the bells and
whitsles as if she had financed it herself..but she still deserved the opportunity to talk and ask questions.http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/26134277/detail.html

Hi Snoop, you poor baby. Real winters are rare in your neck of country. :sigh:
I know you’re cold. Do they even sell winter clothes in Florida? Don’t tell me..Hawaiian print sweaters in vibrant colors.
As for today’s ruling..http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/26134277/detail.html
Snipped:In the latest request, Baez told Perry during Wednesday’s hearing that the additional hours were needed to interview around 110 of the state’s witnesses.
Baez said that the interviews needed to be conducted for the defense to do its due diligence in defending Anthony. He told Perry he did not believe these witnesses would need to be deposed.
Perry pointed out that since the murder charge Anthony faces could carry capitol punishment, he agreed that additional hours would not be excessive and he said that he wants the case to progress toward a May trial date.

Good for Judge P! I see the State of Florida has put him in an awkward position. On one hand he has to calculate finances for the JAC and in the other he knows he can’t mismanage this trial because of the extremity of the charges. I also think he’s overworked, but that’s just my opinion.
Zuben, I get the same impression. It seems like the SAO’s are angry at Casey because she has private attorneys and I don’t think they were prepared for that. They were probably thinking Casey would have a court appointed attorney, they would have quickly went to trial, Casey would have pled out to LWOP. Game over, they win and their upcoming elections are secure. Now they’re finding that it’s not that easy therefore they’re going to make it hard on Casey every chance they get.
As we know today the Judge has granted a 100 additional investigative hours to Baez and possibly more at a later date because there’s a discrepancy of allotted hour by the JAC. It seems Baez will also be compensated for defense experts traveling expenses as soon as Judge Perry signs an order. All in all, I’d say it was a good day for the defense.

Thanks for the update and link, Snoop and JB. Damagdpets, you’re forgiven and I really see your point. But, my point in reply is, if you can’t pay for your home or office rent, advertising isn’t in the budget. The only way any of her attorneys can sell a book is if Casey gives them permission to do that. Correct? With the way the general public looks down on the defense for helping Casey, do you really think a book they write about this case would be a best seller? I’ve read boycott efforts on things to do with the family and the same would happen if any of them wrote a book. They know that I’m sure.

A Very Good Morning to Everyone!
I’m in an exceptionally chipper mood, I must admit. 😀
But putting that aside…Zuben, I really don’t think these attorneys are in for it for fame or fortune either. Maybe I’m a little naive but I believe there is good in the World and I think when Sheaffer, Nejame and a few other attorneys began maligning Baez, I believe a few of the goodhearted attorneys took issue with that and decided to help Baez out. I wouldn’t be surprised if Judge Strickland himself called on his friend Cheney to help out.
I think it was most unusual the way the Media and Baez’s colleagues treated him early on. Has anyone else heard of such a thing? It was horrifying to me.
If anyone writes a book on the case, I would like to read Baez’s story. It can’t be easy after 2 years of not only trying to defend your client but defend yourself for simply doing your job.

D, isn’t it true that he would loose his license to practice law if he were to divulge anything about this case without Casey’s clear permission? He is her attorney, after all.

Thanks for the link, very interesting. I see I was on the mark concerning the plant evidence. I was quite shocked the botanist would make a claim about the time necessary for roots to grow that size without even identifying the genus and species, then allowing for the conditions on that specific ground. I’ve seen witchgrass roots that are a full season old growing in hardpan ground where a few feet away the roots are the same size in a month’s time following germination in ground that is light, friable and fertile.

Something I don’t understand about the Judge’s order. He only required these summaries from experts of recently posted witnesses that are going to give opinion at trial. So, now we know or at least think that the Botanist for the defense is going to give opinion at trial, but how do we know if Dr Hall is going to give opinion at trial? Seems it forces the defense strategy but not the states. Anyone know?

Also, with the pictures of the plants not being taken from some type of measurement camera, how can we rely on the Botanist estimate?

And finally, Since Dr Hall said in his report that the leaf litter over the bag had not been under water since fall, and fall is still happening in December, What is the date of fall that he is referring to?

NTS, I wish I could answer your question. What is the date of fall that he is referring to?
That’s a good one, I wish I knew.
WFTV thinks Perry ordered the Defense to tip their hand too. I thought Baez’s response was terse and to the point. In his wording he uses “IF” a lot. 😀 But I’m still hoping there’s a surprise somewhere in the forensics.http://www.cfnews13.com/static/articles/images/documents/SKMBT_C45210121512020.pdf
Well, it’s been hectic with holiday shopping and preparation for me. Please be safe & Buckle up while traveling and in case I forget, I Wish Everyone a Blessed Holiday Season!
JB

The US has run out of sodium thiopental for executions until 2011. Officials in the US state of Oklahoma have executed a prison inmate using a drug cocktail that includes a sedative typically used to euthanize animals.

oh wow Snoop…That’s really sad. I’m sorry to hear this. You know I’m pro-DP in some cases but this sounds downright sinful. I think the Supreme Court needs to step it up a notch and do the right thing and Hold OFF Executions until further notice. It’s horrible.

This drug has been used as the sole drug for executions too, according to wiki. Look at this statement by the sole manufacturer. “Following a shortage that led a court to delay an execution in California, a company spokesman for Hospira, the sole American manufacturer of the drug, expressed strong reservations about the use of thiopental in the lethal injection procedure. “Hospira manufactures this product because it improves or saves lives, and the company markets it solely for use as indicated on the product labeling. The drug is not indicated for capital punishment, and Hospira does not support its use in this procedure.” ”