"Breaking her Silence"
Fox News Now (cable TV, national broadcast), Wash., D.C.
10:10 AM, August 4, 1999
Fox News Now
Fox News Channel (cable TV, national version)
Wednesday, August 4, 1999, 10:10 AM
Transcript
[Lead-in with January 26, 1998 film of President
Clinton saying "I want you to listen to me. I'm going
to say this again. I did not have sexual relations
with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody
to lie. Not a single time. Never."
News segment entitled : "Breaking her Silence"
Lisa Carberg, host, in New York.
CARBERG: Well Hillary Clinton is under fire again,
this time for her comments about her husband's
infidelities in the premiere issue of Talk magazine.
The First Wife claims that childhood abuse explains
and in some ways excuses the President's extra
curricular activities. Dr. Jeffrey Schaler is an
adjunct professor at American University and a
developmental psychologist. He joins me from
Washington. Good morning Dr. Schaler.
SCHALER: Good morning Lisa.
CARBERG: Do you believe that childhood abuse, in this
case mental abuse, excuses adult behavior?
SCHALER: Absolutely not. Sigmund Freud was one of
the greatest charlatans of the twentieth century, and
it's odd, to say the very least, that Hillary Clinton
is invoking Freudian theory to explain why her husband
has been unfaithful. There's no scientific evidence
to support psychoanalysis, Freudian theory, and it's
just peculiar that she would use this, for whatever
reason. I guess she's trying to rationalize, or
explain away--excuse--his behavior.
CARBERG: Can you detail the Freudian theory a little
bit more for us.
SCHALER: Well, she focused, in the interview, on how
Bill Clinton had allegedly had some kind of trauma at
age 4, in terms of trying to win the affection of his
mother and grandmother. This, in Freudian theory, is
called the phallic stage of development that extends
from about age 3 to 6. And it's a time in which young
boys allegedly are struggling with what Freud called
the Oedipus complex, where they focus their sexual
interests on the mother and harbor, allegedly,
unconscious desires to kill their father. Now, if
that's unresolved, according to Freudian theory, it
allegedly could influence people's behavior later on
in life. For example, what Hillary seems to be
suggesting, by invoking this theory, is that he's
searching for the love he never had from his mother by
being with all these women. But that's a way-out
theory that isn't even taught in schools of
developmental psychology any more.
CARBERG: Dr. Schaler, parents have had a difficult
issue explaining the President's infidelity to their
children, and now this "abuse excuse" issue. What
kind of an example is this now setting for young
people?
SCHALER: Well, I think it's setting a very bad
example. Once again, I mean we've all grown tired of
Bill refusing to take responsibility for his behavior,
and here we have Hillary enabling him in refusing to
take responsibility once again. What we do know from
psychological research, particularly from a school of
psychology called "Social Learning Theory," is that
the example set is the lesson learned. And kids . . . my
concern is that kids will learn that it's OK to be
irresponsible . . .
{Video-over showing Hillary and Bill Clinton leaving
helicopter. Hillary walking ahead of Bill. Bill
looking upset.]
. . . This was hardly a sin of weakness. This was a
sign of irresponsibility on the part of the President.
And it concerns me that Hillary is excusing his
behavior when in fact she should be insisting that he
be held responsible for it.
CARBERG: Now the First Lady used the term "weakness"
to explain the President's behavior.
SCHALER: Right. I hardly think it's a weakness. If
anything it seems to be an indication of incredible
determination and strength--an "iron will" if you
will--on the part of President Clinton. He's
determined to do whatever he wants regardless of the
consequences. That's hardly an indication of
weakness.
[Title: "Breaking her Silence" is now replaced with "FOX
Flash: HILLARY BACKPEDALS ON 'ABUSE' THEORY FOR
BILL'S WOMANIZING"]
CARBERG: Describe to us the differences between
weakness and addiction, that we've heard before.
SCHALER: Well, there is a lot of myth about
addictions. . . the idea about addiction that's a myth
is that somehow people can't control their behavior,
and scientific research over the last 30 years
consistently shows that people can control their
behavior. So, once again to say that somehow
President Clinton is suffering from a sexual addiction
is inaccurate. If anything he's causing other people
to suffer from his own preferences.
CARBERG: The President's powerful role--did that play
into his actions, his behavior?
SCHALER: Well, I'm sure, because in terms of his
relationships with women, they are undoubtedly
enamored by his power and prestige. And I can't see
how it could be otherwise.
CARBERG: Did that feed it?
SCHALER: I think it would. . . on the part of the
women who participated with him? I imagine so. In
terms of his own interests? I'm not sure.
CARBERG: OK. Dr. Schaler . . . OK . . . What, if you
were Hillary Clinton, of course she's received a lot
of controversy over the article . . . and how she's
handled it, and now she's back on her listening tour,
everyone's waiting for her to address this issue, if
you were her, how might you clarify things to make it
easier to understand for the everyday person out
there.
SCHALER: Well, I think she should distance herself
from this Freudian explanation for her husband's
behavior, because, if you'll remember, Freud is the
person that brought us the whole idea of "penis envy"
which is an idea that's been disparaged by feminists
for many years, so she does herself no good by
identifying with a Freudian theory or explanation for
her husband's behavior. What I think she should do is
insist that he be held responsible for the
consequences of his actions . . . and not get into
this whole thing of excusing or rationalizing behavior
. . . both . . . for the country, for herself, and for
young people in America today.
CARBERG: Do you think it's realistic for the First
Lady to criticize her husband's behavior, I mean
they're not your average couple.
SCHALER: Well, I think it's realistic. I mean . . .
we've gotten so exposed to their private life, which
is a whole . . . another ethical matter, in my
opinion, but the fact of the matter is that we do have
access now to their private and personal relationship
and I think she should do the right thing, and yes,
criticize him for the harm and the irresponsibility
that he has committed.
CARBERG: Dr. Jeffrey Schaler, we thank you for
joining us this morning from the nation's capitol.
SCHALER: Thank you.
[End at 10:16 AM]