Comments on: Designing An Addictive Game Part 2/2 – Is That Ethically Wrong?http://www.gameproducer.net/2009/05/02/designing-an-addictive-game-part-22-is-that-ethically-wrong/
I Bake Games. Indie StyleWed, 25 Mar 2015 09:43:35 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3.3By: Tonio Barmadosahttp://www.gameproducer.net/2009/05/02/designing-an-addictive-game-part-22-is-that-ethically-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-146367
Thu, 01 Sep 2011 17:20:49 +0000http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=2938#comment-146367Game companies don’t care about ethics. They only care about profits. The more addicted the player is the better.

Now the fact is that most people have basic emotional need that will never be fulfilled in their lives, unless they work really hard and sacrifice other things. That said, addicting games exploit this vulnerability and give shortcuts to the player to get this fulfillment. Naturally, when the player cannot get the same fulfillment in real life, but he can get it in the game world, he will get addicted. But at the same time, his addiction destroys other parts of his life.

Is it ethical to exploit people’s emotional vulnerabilities and give them a taste of something that they might not be able to resist?

Drug addicts commonly say that being high is better than sex. Yet, drugs are deemed illegal.

]]>By: Mark Mistryhttp://www.gameproducer.net/2009/05/02/designing-an-addictive-game-part-22-is-that-ethically-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-134958
Mon, 01 Jun 2009 10:50:42 +0000http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=2938#comment-134958As a Game developer and a self confessed recovering game addict, I think it is the resonsibility of the player to have self control if that person is an adult, and its the responsibility of the parent if the player is a minor(under 16).

You can put a million warnings on the product but it will only be ignored take smoking for example. YOU WILL DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH. But people continue to smoke as will people that like games will continue to keep playing.

I am purposely making my game addictive. Learning to do things in moderation that’s the best game of all.

………..This is not whether to create weapons or not.
Its wether you create a weapon that works, or a weapon that blows up in your face when you use it………..

I think this is definitely the point.

And I also think if you realize that there is chance to blow up, and if you have the power to prevent it and you are not doing anything about it because you are having a lot of profit, then it looks to me that it is unethical.

By saying this I don’t mean that all responsibility is designer’s/or producers’. As Juuso said there are two parts, but I believe designer’s have more power to effect to the other side.

]]>By: Sargonhttp://www.gameproducer.net/2009/05/02/designing-an-addictive-game-part-22-is-that-ethically-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-134546
Tue, 05 May 2009 11:41:45 +0000http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=2938#comment-134546This is not a black and white matter, like juuso said.
This is not whether to create weapons or not.
Its wether you create a weapon that works, or a weapon that blows up in your face when you use it.
Would you be willing to pay for a weapon that the company created it didn’t mention it got a good chance to blow up?
]]>By: Oliverhttp://www.gameproducer.net/2009/05/02/designing-an-addictive-game-part-22-is-that-ethically-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-134538
Tue, 05 May 2009 07:34:50 +0000http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=2938#comment-134538@Usorp: It’s okay man ;)

I might have came across as blockheaded or something, but it was late for me and I got off the phone with my friend Armin who is in hospital. He’s there to have his drug addiction cured. Why? Because he finally said “Yes, I DO have a problem”, and then seeked help. He took responsibility for his life.

@Juuso:
I know those stories and it’s horrible and very sad..

But.. “for several continuous days”? Please, someone tell me she didn’t have problems.. mental or health related. What did her parents do? When I played too much, my dad took my computer and locked it up somewhere, and rightly so.

If it was just the game and prolonged playing, we would have several thousands of deaths on LAN parties every year.

Warnings and break reminders are great, love them. But re-designing the game, changing the rules, look and feel, so it is not potentially addictive anymore (and probably less fun), would be wrong and unfair in my opinion.

Some other ideas that won’t “damage” the games themselves:
How about adding a little booklet or letter to game boxes labelled “To the parents”?

How about gamers and game producers gathering together to have information events for parents where you can adress their worries and objections and tell them what to do if the kid won’t do anything besides being glued to a computer.

How about visiting the doc and get his opinion before letting your kid go on a LAN party? My mom did that with me when I was a kid.

How about little informative brochures made by game publishers that they can give doctors for their waiting room.

Teachers can help, too. Back in school I had a maths teacher who would occasionally play WoW with his pupils, have fun, but also remind them about health issues and their studies if he saw them playing too much. Because he showed genuine interest, the pupils would talk to him more easily if they had problems at home that made them submerge into a virtual reality. Genius. Who knows how much value he added to the lives of his pupils just by having a closer look and offering help.

My point is.. changing the game design, or stopping to make potentially addictive games, would just adress the symptom, a person playing games way too much. I think you have to adress the underyling problem here and that’s where game designers can help and take responsibility.

]]>By: Juuso Hietalahtihttp://www.gameproducer.net/2009/05/02/designing-an-addictive-game-part-22-is-that-ethically-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-134532
Tue, 05 May 2009 05:16:21 +0000http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=2938#comment-134532Hmm… addictions aren’t necessarily easy to break. Some people who are truly addicted (and I mean in a way that “they can’t stop playing”) to some game. I guess this is really a small minority, but it happens. Some girl died after playing too much WoW.

Is it girl’s fault that she died?

Is it parent’s fault that they didn’t understand that playing games can be lethal?

Are we saying… that the game designers have whatsoever no responsibility for this?

Or… would she have died anyway because of some other hobby/addiction (if word “addiction” can be used in this case)?

(Sorry for pushing this… things aren’t so black & white… but I really want to bring the other side of the story here too).

My own opinion is… that in the end all parties should perhaps take some responsibility. Game Designers & developers could do same stuff as Wii does: it mentions every 45 minutes for player to take a break and go outdoors. Some online games have information that mention this stuff to players. Perhaps games could have some sort of “parental video tour” that would explain what kids do. Of course in the end, the decision lies in the shoulder’s of the player (or the parents in case they have a kid playing), but I think we game developers could try to support ‘healthy gaming’, and take responsibility where we can.

if you prefer to play WOW than giving attentions to your wife the problem is your.

you are a game producer or what???? an holliwood wanna be producer?

it sounds to me like: “writing an addicting book is good?” yes man, definitely.

I hope you have the time to read some books sometimes.

]]>By: Oliverhttp://www.gameproducer.net/2009/05/02/designing-an-addictive-game-part-22-is-that-ethically-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-134525
Mon, 04 May 2009 20:39:08 +0000http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=2938#comment-134525“Now now… weapons are also used to hunt food, in sports, hobbyists…”

I clearly said “killing life”.. which includes animals. And I also mentioned deer, which is an animal. ;)

“…so does that mean game designers have no need to think about ethics?”

No, it just means that, from my point of view, addiction is a problem with the player. If the player wasn’t receptive to addiction, he wouldn’t get addicted to your game in the first place, as hard as you might try.

I have lost friends to WoW because they got addicted. Is it Blizzard’s fault? I don’t think so. My friends made a conscious decision, for themselves, to spend most of their time in-game, and give in to addiction. In my eyes they have a mental problem and should seek help. Who puts off going to toilet or getting some water to “just finish this one more quest”? :)

I tried WoW and it was fun but I didn’t get addicted. Many other people didn’t. Therefore, it can’t be the game designers doing something ethically wrong to their players. They did a good job at making a fun game that people enjoy to stick around.

I think “ethics in games” covers much more than addiction and the question if game designers need or don’t need to think about ethics can’t be answered just with the addiction-angle.

For instance..

Is it ethically wrong to allow a player pick up whores and then kill them? – GTA
Is it ethically wrong to make it fun seeing a human burn to death from your flamethrower? – Metal Slug, many ego shooters..
And is it ethically wrong to promote the idea of eating shrooms to get the illusion of growing taller? – Super Mario. ;)

]]>By: Juuso Hietalahtihttp://www.gameproducer.net/2009/05/02/designing-an-addictive-game-part-22-is-that-ethically-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-134524
Mon, 04 May 2009 19:03:46 +0000http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=2938#comment-134524Now now… weapons are also used to hunt food, in sports, hobbyists…

“he will just indulge in something else”
…so does that mean game designers have no need to think about ethics?