I don't have the time right now to go into much detail, but I wanted to get this off my chest.

Long story short: I saw Star Wars 8. Liked it. Can understand why some hate it. That's fine. It's not a perfect movie, I respect opinions.

But - BUT - I do feel there's kind of a point where I have to draw a line, so I want to say this: If you don't like Star Wars 8, okay...but it's not the worst Star Wars movie. It is objectively not worse than the prequels. I don't understand how a logical human being could even make that argument. It would be like saying...just to use the first analogy that comes to my head...that Avengers 2 is worse than Batman v. Superman. Yes, the former isn't perfect and has its critics and isn't as good as the first, but that doesn't mean it's a trainwreck like the former.

This movie pace is terrible, we spend how much time just doing a 'running out of fuel' scene. The new romance wasn't that great and a ton of characters are just wasted, something I felt that even the prequels did not do. It felt this movie was giving a big 'F U' to the previous movie since it was made by a different director.

Snoke: Is Killed off. This effectively wasted his character, someone who I felt had been built up. We don't know where he came from, how he is so powerful or how he became supreme leader. It's just I am Snoke, I am powerful and now I am dead. Now we will never know his backstory unless we go deep into comics or something. Feels like the director did not like him and said FU to the previous movie building him up.

Captain Phasma: A James Bond villain who doesn't get enough screen time, that is what she felt like. Doesn't do much in the movie and is just another wasted character to get killed off. I thought they said she would get more scene them, guess they lied. The biggest waste of a character.

Luke Skywalker: They completely ruined his character. He tries to kill his own nephew? Are you kidding me? This is a man who redeemed Vader when the entire galaxy thought he was irredeemable and was fully consumed by the dark side and was even willing to die to bring Vader back to the light. By Kylo, oh you have some dark side inside of you, time to kill you.

In the previous movie, he left these maps so that people could come and find him when they needed him and he would help them out. Now Luke is just in go away mode. And then he dies as well which I thought was very anti-climatic. This felt like an FU to not only the previous movie but all the star wars movies actually.

Princess Leia: Should have gotten killed off. Instead, she does this whole Superman thing which seemed far too silly for me. Felt like Kylo being unable to kill her and having his wingmates doing it instead was great but nope she pulls the whole death and return of Superman things.

Admiral Ackbar: He gets killed off for no reason. He should have instead been the admiral that takes over when Leia is taken out and then ram the ship.

Porgs: Even more useless then JarJar. You could remove them from the movie and it would not affect the plot what so ever. They were just put in the movie to sell toys.

Kylo Ren: Should have been redeemed, instead he is now the supreme leader and honestly he doesn't seem to fit the part. He doesn't seem powerful nor does he seem to be final boss material. He is more like the main character rival, not the end boss. In addition, we don't see any of the training he was supposed to do as mentioned in the previous movie by Snoke. Once again, this felt like a big FU to the previous movie.

Rey: Why is she so powerful, because the Force said so to counterbalance Kylo Ren. Oh, and her parents are just junk trader. She isn't related to the Emperor or Obi-wan or a Skywalker or any other Jedi, just random junk traders. It felt the previous movie was setting this up for something by not even giving her a last name but nope, they said, screw the last movie and make her parents a bunch of junk traders.

Ramming Scene: Interesting but this contradicts what happened in rogue one, where a ship entering hyperspace just bounces off and gets destroyed by Darth Vader personal star destroyer.

Casino Scene: Just felt like a waste of time.

Knights of Ren: Where the hell are they? Did we just forget about them? Basically another screw you to the previous movie.

Aliens: Were are all the old star wars aliens, I don't see Hutts, I don't see Twileaks or anything. To be fair, I did have this issue with the previous movie as well but the prequels got this right.

I am going to stop here even though have more complaints about this movie.

This movie pace is terrible, we spend how much time just doing a 'running out of fuel' scene. The new romance wasn't that great and a ton of characters are just wasted, something I felt that even the prequels did not do. It felt this movie was giving a big 'F U' to the previous movie since it was made by a different director.

Snoke: Is Killed off. This effectively wasted his character, someone who I felt had been built up. We don't know where he came from, how he is so powerful or how he became supreme leader. It's just I am Snoke, I am powerful and now I am dead. Now we will never know his backstory unless we go deep into comics or something. Feels like the director did not like him and said FU to the previous movie building him up.

Captain Phasma: A James Bond villain who doesn't get enough screen time, that is what she felt like. Doesn't do much in the movie and is just another wasted character to get killed off. I thought they said she would get more scene them, guess they lied. The biggest waste of a character.

Luke Skywalker: They completely ruined his character. He tries to kill his own nephew? Are you kidding me? This is a man who redeemed Vader when the entire galaxy thought he was irredeemable and was fully consumed by the dark side and was even willing to die to bring Vader back to the light. By Kylo, oh you have some dark side inside of you, time to kill you.

In the previous movie, he left these maps so that people could come and find him when they needed him and he would help them out. Now Luke is just in go away mode. And then he dies as well which I thought was very anti-climatic. This felt like an FU to not only the previous movie but all the star wars movies actually.

Princess Leia: Should have gotten killed off. Instead, she does this whole Superman thing which seemed far too silly for me. Felt like Kylo being unable to kill her and having his wingmates doing it instead was great but nope she pulls the whole death and return of Superman things.

Admiral Ackbar: He gets killed off for no reason. He should have instead been the admiral that takes over when Leia is taken out and then ram the ship.

Porgs: Even more useless then JarJar. You could remove them from the movie and it would not affect the plot what so ever. They were just put in the movie to sell toys.

Kylo Ren: Should have been redeemed, instead he is now the supreme leader and honestly he doesn't seem to fit the part. He doesn't seem powerful nor does he seem to be final boss material. He is more like the main character rival, not the end boss. In addition, we don't see any of the training he was supposed to do as mentioned in the previous movie by Snoke. Once again, this felt like a big FU to the previous movie.

Rey: Why is she so powerful, because the Force said so to counterbalance Kylo Ren. Oh, and her parents are just junk trader. She isn't related to the Emperor or Obi-wan or a Skywalker or any other Jedi, just random junk traders. It felt the previous movie was setting this up for something by not even giving her a last name but nope, they said, screw the last movie and make her parents a bunch of junk traders.

Ramming Scene: Interesting but this contradicts what happened in rogue one, where a ship entering hyperspace just bounces off and gets destroyed by Darth Vader personal star destroyer.

Casino Scene: Just felt like a waste of time.

Knights of Ren: Where the hell are they? Did we just forget about them? Basically another screw you to the previous movie.

Aliens: Were are all the old star wars aliens, I don't see Hutts, I don't see Twileaks or anything. To be fair, I did have this issue with the previous movie as well but the prequels got this right.

I am going to stop here even though have more complaints about this movie.

Actually...

Spoiler:

About Luke trying to kill Ben/Kylo, he actually acted on impulse by igniting his lightsaber, after reacting to the darkness in his nephew. He didn't go through with it, quickly realizing that he was thinking of murdering his nephew in cold blood just because he sensed darkness inside him. But the act of igniting lightsaber alone was enough for Ben to go deep end, embracing his dark side because his uncle Luke seemed to be trying to kill him, even though he actually didn't go through with it.

Agreed with other points, though. May have different opinions, but I don't feel like mentioning them here.

I don't know what you're talking about with the previous movie building Snoke up. He was mentioned a few times, but he didn't do anything directly, and most of his purpose was served in Kylo's development, being the thing that drove him. Personally, I wouldn't have killed him here, but I understand the thinking. They wanted Kylo to take center stage, as the more developed villain.

I will agree they could've done more with Phasma, though she at least got more lines and action than Boba Fett ever did. She got to go out fighting and kicking Finn's ass.

As for Luke, he didn't try to kill his own nephew. As the movie clearly stated, he considered it FOR A MOMENT, when he realized all the evil Kylo was going to do.

As for the porgs being in the movie to sell toys...well, duh. That's pretty much why everyone is in the movie. That's why there are new ATs. That's why Phasma has a fancy armor instead of the standard trooper fare. Remember the Ewoks? Star Wars has ALWAYS been about selling merchandise.

The problem with Jar Jar isn't that he's useless. He's actually quite useful, helping out the Jedi at several points. People hate Jar Jar because he's annoying AND all over the damn movie. The porgs, by comparison, are probably in less than a minute of the movie, total. They have one light hearted scene with Chewie, then just show up for flashes. That's it. If Jar Jar showed up that much, nobody would've cared.

Kylo Ren: Should have been redeemed, instead he is now the supreme leader and honestly he doesn't seem to fit the part. He doesn't seem powerful nor does he seem to be final boss material. He is more like the main character rival, not the end boss. In addition, we don't see any of the training he was supposed to do as mentioned in the previous movie by Snoke. Once again, this felt like a big FU to the previous movie.

Could it be that, I don't know, Snoke was lying about that training to just string Kylo along? Just a thought.

Rey: Why is she so powerful, because the Force said so to counterbalance Kylo Ren. Oh, and her parents are just junk trader. She isn't related to the Emperor or Obi-wan or a Skywalker or any other Jedi, just random junk traders. It felt the previous movie was setting this up for something by not even giving her a last name but nope, they said, screw the last movie and make her parents a bunch of junk traders.

It's called a red herring.

The whole point is that it's not important who her parents are. She can forge her own destiny, she can start fresh. She doesn't have to be part of some ancient bloodline or the daughter of Ben Kenobi or whatever fanfiction background people can give her.

Ramming Scene: Interesting but this contradicts what happened in rogue one, where a ship entering hyperspace just bounces off and gets destroyed by Darth Vader personal star destroyer.

Oh, come on, be real. Now you're just being picky.

Knights of Ren: Where the hell are they? Did we just forget about them? Basically another screw you to the previous movie.

Or they could just be saving them for the final movie. Luke clearly mentioned the students Kylo took with him, so they're not forgotten.

Aliens: Were are all the old star wars aliens, I don't see Hutts, I don't see Twileaks or anything. To be fair, I did have this issue with the previous movie as well but the prequels got this right.

Again, picky.

Admiral Ackbar: He gets killed off for no reason. He should have instead been the admiral that takes over when Leia is taken out and then ram the ship.

Okay, I'm just going to throw this out there: the only reason you or anyone really cares about Ackbar is because of a meme. He was not some grand, interesting developed character in the original trilogy. He was just the weird squid looking dude who had that one funny scene.[/quote]

I agree that it is not much worse of a movie than SW7. But I also agree with Person that it is a big FU to many people who are diehard SW fans or who expect some background and sense in their Sci Fi movies. Luckily they run out of people to kill off that I like with each movie.

Movie Movie on the wall who is the weirdest of them all:

*Making a fool out of the general by ignoring and badmouthing him was funny.*Why does the guard of Snoke attack? The king is dead, long live the king. The general quickly realized that after Ren showed what is going on. They are the bad guys after all. Maybe they were the former students of Luke? An explanation would be nice.*The killing of Snoke was sneaky and made sense. I knew that he would be dead meat as soon as he said that the apprenticeship of Ren is over. To end his apprenticeship, he has to kill his master...*The death of Snoke itself was so impactless that it also could have been left out.*Zylon remembrance captain was as impactless as Snoke.*Indifferent to the flying guinea pigs. I laughed when they imitated Chewbaca, wrecked havoc in the falcon and were splattered against the window.*Killing off Ackbar just so was stupid.*Luke was at first the usual Jedi whineyass, but then made a comeback like a boss like Master Joda.*Traitor codebreaker was a nice idea.*Glitterfoxes??? I am pretty sure that the first order was not on the planet to hunt foxes, what are they doing in the cave?*Leah has Jedi powers. Not that surprised, nice idea.*Miniature deathstar cannon. Sigh, so stupid.*Bombing run on the big baddie made not much sense but was heroic.*Mind linking was a good idea, I liked it.*The republic blows it again. Why? Through the loss of a single star system to the deathplanet? I would not join the rebellion at this point, you can bet your lucky dollar that the republic will just fail again and again. And I am probably not alone in that thought as nobody showed up to help the rebellion.*You are pursued by a fleet of ships? Leave one officer of your suicide squad behind and let her jump into hyperdrive for a second. Problem solved.*At one point I thought how it would make sense when Ren and Rei would just marry and rule the galaxy together. He is the darker law and order fanatic while she is the compassionate symbol of freedom that can reel him in if he goes too far.

I'd rather watch the Star Wars prequels then ever watch The Last Jedi ever again, I never felt such anger and rage towards a movie before and I hate it even more then I hated The Force Awakens and that movie nearly made me scream in the movie theater. OH MY GOD! I was so hellbent on screaming, what a piece of shit movie and just like what person said, it was a big FUCK YOU to both fans of the series and the series itself, I cannot believe that the books and comics that continued the Star Wars story after Return of the Jedi was retconned for this crap....

No kickass lightsaber duell and when fights broke out it was only between the comedy sidekick and captain Blinkyhelm on one side and the two unrefined Jedi and a number of guards attacking them for not much reason after all. SW8 is like SW7 most of the time, the story of the common rebellion people. Luke saved it a bit by making Khylo Ren, who is nearly the same pimpled beginner jedi as in SW7 but with more raw energy, look like a fool.I have several friends who like this approach, but I do not. I don´t want to see how the comedy sidekick gets saved by technician X. i want to see lightsaber duells like Dooku vs Obi Wan and Anakin or Darth Maul vs Qui Gon Jin and Obi Wan. I could go and watch Star Trek instead if I wanted that.

Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion and whatever. I can see why people would have some problems with certain things, especially the more hardcore fans.

...at the same time, though, I just cannot get with people saying its worse than the prequels. I feel some people are forgetting just how aggressively bad and boring those movies could be. And keep in mind, I liked the prequels far more than most people do. I'm one of those guys who says Revenge of the Sith was a pretty good film, and I'll defend the others to a point.

This is a better film than those. Even if you disagree with the choices, in terms of the way a movie is supposed to work, the barebones, the skeleton of it, Episode 8 is better than 1-3. I'm sorry, good sirs, on this rock I must stand.

The prequels are better then The Last Jedi because at least they TRIED to be good despite their flaws and actually explained and answered very important questions that kept piling up in the original trilogy. Who was Darth Vader? What was the Clone Wars and how did it start? How was the Empire founded and how did they conquer the Galaxy? What exactly caused the Jedi to go extinct besides Vader? What was the Jedi order like? What were Emperor Palpatine's origin? Etc etc. The prequels answered these questions and at least gave us some sweet lightsaber battles that are epic as hell. Also, I grew up with the prequels so they grown on me but unlike most i can see past their flaws and enjoy them for what they are.

The Last Jedi does NONE of this and more which completely ruins the experience, it didn't try to be good OR original and nothing was explained. Especially on Snoke, who was literally only thrown in this to be a big bad evil figure head and we know absolutely nothing about him. Because of this, as bad as they were in their ways, the Star Wars prequels are much better then The Last Jedi, imho.

Phantom Menace is good because of a few things:*Droidica and droids in general.*Darth Maul, Obi Wan and Qui Gon Jin battle.*The deep connection between Qui gon Jin and Obi Wan. Qui Gon is the perfect teacher and Obi Wan the perfect student.*The battle Droids vs. GungensEverything else is just garbage in it´s purest form.

Attack of the Clones is good because of:*Anakin and Obi Wan chase the Assassin*Count Dooku vs Anakin and Obi Wan*Count Dooku vs Joda*Obi Wan vs Jango Fett*Mace Windu vs Jango Fett*Clones vs Droids*The fall of Anakin and the desperate scream of Qui Gon JinEverything else is garbage. It would go as far to say that I like Episode I more than Episode II.

Revenge of the Sith is good because:*The birth of Darth Vader*The Emperor vs Joda*The Emperor and Anakin vs Mace Windu*Order 66*Wookies vs Droids*Anakin vs Count Dooku*Anakin vs Obi Wan(YOU WERE MY BROTHER!)The Rest of the movie is okayish. Probably the best of the Prequels.

The new ones are merely the massacres of the old guard while the new guard could not shine up until here, although the movies in general are fun and not bad as standalone movies but the continuation and background really blows. I really, really hope that SW9 will heave me out of the shoes again but after the last 2 movies I don´t have much hope for it.

Last edited by Harrier on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total