Well, I swore I was NOT going to blog on this today, but I fear that these are indeed possibly copy-cat murder/suicides. It is now “out there” in the news as a possible way out of an emotionally embarrassing and humiliating situation.

Read THIS one, and then see if you can tell which parts were certifiably insane public policy, and how many warning signs people ignored.

And I’ll tell you why this one chills me, and makes me glad to be alive today.

Preface Commentary:

At this point, it seems to be “certifiably insane public policy” to expect women to trust, or men to respect, such restraining orders, when clearly they don’t — I already blogged on this re: the woman in Pennsylvania who fought back.

Recently, I wrote about a father accused of molesting his (teenaged) daughter who, seeing as she was only moved 2 doors down, and into the home of a man that used to be the same father’s employee (say, what???!?), within one week, Dad had killed: daughter, foster father and himself, and almost killed foster mother, too. So THAT helpful ruling got 3 people dead and one injury. Great going, child protective services in that region of Tennessee.

Here’s another one that slipped through the cracks somehow, and at several different points. What “gets” me about this one is realizing several domestic violence prevention groups, nonprofits, that have been getting millions upon millions of federal dollars, over at least a decade in grants to provent violendce locally, rurally, and in Indian tribes, as well as technical assistance grants to, I guess, “get the word out.” So far, I can see they are doing a great job with putting to gether literature that’s already on the web somewhere, positioning themselves as the experts, consulting in private with other professionals about what to do, and keeping a body count. Which hasn’t substantially changed (per these counts) statewide in Minnesota within a decade.

So either the state is raising more suicidal or unable to handle stress people, or immature young adults who then continue the immaturity into adulthood and parenthood (referringto the fathers in this case), or something. . . . . . Or so many people are being born each day that they STILL don’t know the warning signs of danger, and are talked into minimizing them.

Let’s maybe add ONE more “lethality risk” — trusting in protection orders to start with. That’s for the courts and for the women alike. And encouraging a woman to do so (or continuing to present them as viable alternatives — when in fact they are panaceas too often) also places her in risk, given the facts. Ignorance of them is NOT bliss. . . .

When police DO respond in time, they run the risk of death themselves. When they do NOT respond in time, typically Mom, and sometimes Dad, are killed, and sometimes more. Or otherwise traumatized. SO . . . . . what else is available?

THIS ONE:

State: Minnesota

Body Count: 2, no responding officers or bystanders killed this time.

Orphans: 3, ages 10 (boy), 8 & 8 (twin girls)

Who are they now living with? Relatives.

Did they witness the murder - – of their mother by their father, YES, the girls

Did they try to intervene and fail? – — YES, an 8 year old girl tried to save her mother.

Was 911 called? – — YES, by an 8 year old daughter?

Was the call heeded (it seems No), or interfered with (yes, by the father)? – - – read below.

Was that restraining order as written certifiably insane? - — ABSOLUTELY. (And it seems identical to the one I got many years ago.)

Does making a restrained person turn in his or her guns always save a life? – — NO. Other weapons also can kill (apparently here, hands).

Or, a person not allowed to get a gun could get a friend’s (or in a recent case girlfriend’s gun).

Are risk assessments going to redeem lives from living in fear (or being lost)? - – - I’m not sure. I’m of the current opinion, NO, unless the woman herself takes them seriously and takes serious actions not reliant on 911 to ensure safety.

So, Let’s talk about the body counts vis a vis the legal terminology:

When you think about it, and read the results, even calling these things “protection orders” makes zero sense.

They are restraint requests. A man without restraint is ordered publically by a judge to show restraint.

WHO is to protect, in “protection order”? The power of the state? Does the state, like God, declare “protection” exists because it ordered this? And is the state, in so doing, lying to the protected parties.

A trained, armed mother with an attitude to match, telling the man who just received the judicial order, that she is going to take the boundaries of the property seriously, and understands all laws regarding the 2nd amendment, and any contingencies. IN other words, she needs to be more determined and more aggressive than the person who formerly attacked or threatened her.

So do the people surrounding or dealing with her on this issue.

Alternately, a “not in the same state” “county” “500 mile radius” mother, and kids. And the kids could be told the truth about why this is happening, in age-appropriate terms but without name-calling or derogatory treatment of their father.

But of course that would screw up access visitation and National Fathers Return Days somewhat….

NOW, this is not typically the state of a woman who has gotten to the point of requesting such an order from her husband, right? The request for an order represents (to an abuser) an ESCALATION in OPPOSITION to SUBMISSION.

HARRIS, Minn. — In rural Chisago County, houses are far apart, but neighbors are close.

Roland and Mavis Ramberg thought they knew the neighbors down the road, Doug and Candice Ouellette, who were both 38 years old.

Their grandchildren and the Ouellette’s 10-year-old son and 8-year-old twin girls were friends.

“They seemed like a nice couple,” says Mavis.

> > > Yes, we all like to think that pleasantries in social endeavors

mean the couple is nice in private. This mentality also appears to hold true among custody evaluators and mediators — well, he/she showed self-control while in MYoffice, or while I was watching, therefore, that’s the standard..Therefore my formal assessment (opinion?) is that, he/she is a nice guy and the other partner is eccentric, or has personality problems (that don’t relate to or arise from the relationship? . . . ).

I have been seriously assaulted both immediately before and immediately after a social engagement in our home, like many women who have been in violent relationships. No matter how much evidence hits the press or anywhere else about the reality of this type of dual- behavior, the communal lore (at least in the press) seems to be, denial and surprise..as if this was a new thing. ”What a nice couple.”

Define “nice.” Define knowledge of one’s neighbors.

Then on Wednesday night, the Rambergs realized that something was clearly wrong.

>>Apparently they didn’t know about: the prior suicide attempt resulting in a call to police, OR the restraining order situation, or the divorce. They were still a “nice” couple.

“All I saw was squad cars, upon squad cars and helicopter,” says Roland

One of the Ouellette’s little girls had called 911. Investigators say Doug strangled Candice to death in their home, then hanged himself in an outbuilding.

Court documents filed in Chisago County detail the couple’s troubled marriage. In June, police were called to the Ouellette’s home for an attempted suicide.

{{This suicide attempt is characterized as ”a troubled marriage,” not a troubled man. Well, attempted suicides ARE troubling to all involved}}

In her own words, Candice (mother) tells the court that Doug locked himself in the pole barnwith guns,

held a revolver to his head and threatened to kill himself.

At that time Candice received an order for protection, an order authorities say was later terminated by the agreement both she and her husband. {{The sentence is incomplete…}}

{{AND all the “experts” said, “Amen, So Be it. We’re glad you reconciled.”

A suicide attempt should trigger a separation and mandated SOMETHING. Fatherlessness over the decades has triggered a LOT of initiatives. Why not initiatives to mandate that potential fatherlessness as demonstrated by suicide attempt should result in suicide-prevention action by the courts, et al.? (See my past 14 years of lethality risk studies, last post) Common sense: In the news there are “suicide” attacks, bombs. Wars sometimes involve suicide bombing SO< when there’s a home war, watch out!}}

{HAS SOMEONE ACTUALLY — OR WILL THEY LATER — READ THE ORDER THAT TERMINATES? How much later? . . . that’s the trouble with getting stories out so fast — their incompleteness…}}

But at the end of June, Candice filed for divorce, with a no contact provision.

“It looks like there was a stipulation in the paperwork

that allows him to go to the outbuildings during daylight hours

between 9 and 5 pm,” says Shoemaker.

Gee, with all the hoopla, particularly by President Obama et al., this past Father’s Day, perhaps it made him feel even worse. That’s why I say, maybe we ought to “call it a day” on the “days.” MOST of them. . . . . . .

til 5pm? BUT — – - – BUT – - – - did not this attack, strangulation-murder, happen around 9:15pm (or was it just discovered then)? How long were those girls in the home alone with their Mom’s body?

What kind of self-restraint was presumed the suicidal Dad would show in this presumptuous order? And, why didn’t the Mom call 911 the SECOND he approached the home after 5pm? Was it an ambush or sneak attack? Or was she still half in “placation/mediation/well, he’s their father mode”? And had it not yet sunk in that she had a RIGHT to self-defense and say no? OR, it being rural, did she not have any other recourse? Unfortunately, we do not have a brain-scan of her final thoughts.. Do those girls have some final words or cries burned into their brains, and the boy?. . . (I can imagine why, probably, having been in those shoes. And my order didn’t even stipulate only certain hours…)

THAT ORDER IS - – AS WELL AS TERMINATING THE EARLIER ONE – - was the “certifiably insane” part . . . . . The “frog in a pan of warm water” effect. The “graduated sanctions” philosophy. That order, whether written ‘by them’ or not, was signed by a judge, and was a piece of crap! If any of my readers has negotiated a “mutual” agreement with someone who has attempted or threatened to attempt suicide before, and all went well, all are still alive, it worked out, please comment on my post, and give the case # too, and what county and what year. I’d like to see something to validate the court attention-deficit process women leaving abuse are put through. One files a protection order on the other, indicating some serious and significant differences in perspective, than are ordered to mediate, or reconcile, or just get along and put their differences aside.

AND – - I had the same thing. Same field of endeavor from this man, and same not a REAL protection order. It was not really safe, it was risky to do this, in our context, and obviously this one also. At the time, it was a drastic improvement. In retrospect, it was unfair to us, 100%, and exposed us to risk, and compromised how efficiently we could recover and rebuild/repair things that were broken. ON THE OTHER HAND, if he hadn’t perceived he won something back, we might have been the Ouellettes. . . . . This is why the VPC calls it “American Roulette” in reporting on these things. However, they are focusing on the guns. There were no guns in this murder/suicide.

The documents also reveal the couple may have been having some financial problems. Candice was working from home. Her husband was part owner of a family construction company. Friends say business had been slow.

Go figure: She was working from home, with young children at home, and the “protection order” allowed him daily access from 9-5pm, rather than put a physical separation from their places of business and her (now) home.

At this point, authorities don’t know yet what triggered Doug Ouellette’s final violent act. Investigators are continuing to talk with family members, while friends like the Rambergs try to understand their deep sense of loss.

The same family members that didn’t know enough to SERIOUSLY SEPARATE those two after the suicide attempt? The same family members now in charge of the children? The same family members that, after said attempt, didn’t become so immediately alarmed that they GOT INFORMED on such situations and spoke with him, and her, about it?

“You just feel kinda crushed because what are those poor kids gonna do,” says Mavis.

Authorities say the three children were not harmed physically and are now staying with family members.

I’ll guarantee you they were harmed psychologically and emotionally, and they are in my prayers, as are my own – - read on!

In the transcript of the 911 call made by the little girl, she tells the operator that she tried to push her father away from her mother.

Doug Ouellette himself told the operator that the kids were just playing and were told to leave the phone alone.

“And then, the operator . .. and then . . . .. and then the operator said, “OK, Sir, just remind them not to. . . . ” and the alert was dropped? Help was dispatched?” Our readers here should’ve been told….

If they believed the Dad, still, this would’ve been a GREAT time for a welfare drive-by, and possibly, possibly someone might’ve been saved. The Dad, at least, would be put in prison and then, thereafter, a family court program (prompted by the fatherhood movement) would’ve helped get him back in his kids lives… so they could be in the custody of the father that murdered their mother, as is encouraged in similar situations. WHAT did the rest of that transcript SAY, and WHY wasn’t whatever it did say put into this article? Or was it “spiked” by the editors as compromising police response policy on 911 calls. Given that THIS home had a prior suicide attempt AND CURRENT PROTECTION ORDER in it. The father’s word was believed over his daughter’s although in this case she was telling the truth? I just want to know.

Including this case in Harris, eight women in Minnesota have been murdered (so far…) in 2009 as a result of domestic violence - three were murder-suicide by an intimate partner.

In 2008, 6 of 21 domestic murders in Minnesota were murder-suicides by intimate partner. In addition there were 4 attempted suicides after the murder.

{{YES, there is always funding available to keep the body-counts, and particularly as to femicides (I happen to know) in Minnesota. Too bad some of this funding wasn’t used for a technical initiative to put protection order data at the disposal of 911 operators, and in their faces. . . . . . when taking calls….and reduce the count a little this time}}

Harris man gave up guns before strangling wife, hanging himself

LET a feminist, or a woman who’s read the risk assessments do this headline. Right now, it sounds like, “he was a good guy — he gave up the guns, after all — but then something TRIGGERED him (possibly her?) (possibly the economy?) — and he strangled her, then hung himself. NO, that’s not the heart of the story, though it may be the hook. Let’s try again:

Harris man violates no-contact order, chokes his wife, lies to police when 8 year old daughter calls 911 and attempts to stop him, then flees and finally hangs himself.

Nope, too long:

Divorce can be deadly — Divorcing rural Harris man with restraining order due to last suicide attempt, turns in guns, but later strangles wife to death, despite 8-yr old daughter’s attempt to intervene and her 911 call, then flees police and hangs himself.

Well, I’m not working the night desk for a reason, obviously. Here’s the story. But WHY NOT GET IMPORTANT TRUTHS (not just facts) OUT WITH THE STORY?

We’ll get the safety recipe right one of these years. . . . . Oops, ignored lethal risks (again) this time.

The story:

Authorities say a 38-year-old rural Harris, Minn., man who killed his estranged wife and then himself Wednesday had surrendered his guns to the local sheriff’s office this summer after his wife got a restraining order against him.

NO !!! NO!!! Stop giving extra credit for partial compliance with restraining order!! Later he violated and killed! Stop! ! it went like this: – - and can we delete the emphasis on her “estranged” status? For one, it rhymes with “deranged” and sounds strange on the tongue. It’s not about HER, it’s about HIM! He killed. She tried to protect her kids and herself, and hopefully him by separation.

“Authorities say a 38-year old rural Harris, Minn. man killed his wife, after prior suicide attempt and while a protection order was in effect (if “ineffectual”) and then himself Wednesday, even though he DID turn in his guns willingly.”

(if the source of the story IS authoritative, this would be generically true, no matter how law enforcement phrased it.}}

Candice and Douglas Ouellette were in the midst of divorcing, authorities said Thursday.

One of the couple’s 8-year-old twin daughters called 911 about 9:15 p.m. Wednesday and told a dispatcher that their father was choking their mother at the family’s home near 450th Street and Holman Avenue, said Chisago County Chief Deputy Bob Shoemaker. One of the girls struggled in vain to pull her father off [of] her mother.

Narratives:

The account above says a call by the girl was intercepted / talked down by her father. I have seen this type of behavior (sudden switch of modes when a phone call was involved).

Deputies arrived to find Candice Ouellette dead, the girls unharmed and Douglas Ouellette missing, which sparked an intense search by the sheriff’s office and the Minnesota State Patrol.

A State Patrol helicopter swept the area, and the State Patrol SWAT went to Chisago County, said Department of Public Safety spokesman Andy Skoogman.

The pilot spotted Ouellette running into a pole barn on the property around 10:20 p.m. Searchers found Ouellette’s body hanging inside.

{{How much time elapsed from the pilot spotting this to the short-wave-radio or cell phone? call to the searchers on the ground. Was HIS death preventable? Had he prepared that noose? Why couldn’t he have been stopped?}}

The twins [twin GIRLS] and a 10-year-old son who was staying with a friend that night are in the care of relatives.

Trouble at home

Doug Ouellette’s Facebook profile features photos of a red-faced family warming up after a day of snowmobiling, his kids on four-wheelers or Ouellette hoisting a giant fish on trip to Canada in 2007. Among his favorite quotes: “Life is good.”

(A word to the wise about facebook, then, eh?)

He is listed on the Better Business Bureau website as vice president of Coon Rapids-based Boulder Creek Builders, Inc., a family-run company.

But behind the scenes recently, things apparently were tumultuous. In June, Doug Ouellette threatened suicide, and his wife obtained an order for protection that required him, among other things, to surrender to the sheriff’s office his guns and his permit to carry a handgun.

“There was no problem turning them over,” Shoemaker said.

He was allowed on the property only during the day, and only to access his outer shop and pole barns. He was not to contact his wife other than by telephone or e-mail once a day. {{WONDER IF THIS WAS ADHERED TO}} {{WHERE WAS THE REST OF HIS FAMILY?}}

Shoemaker said it was unclear whether Doug Ouellette broke into the home or was let in. {{WHY NOT??}} He apparently did not leave a suicide note.

Shoemaker said the incident was the first murder-suicide in Chisago County in about 13 years.

Have they had many protection orders, and what worked about the others, if so? Had such rulings gotten lax?

Similar and close by

But the case was the second murder-suicide in two weeks involving estranged couples just north of the Twin Cities.

On July 30, James H. Schwartzbauer, 46, of Wyoming shot and killed his estranged longtime partner, Erica Ann Wilson, 38, in the parking lot of the Circle Pines apartment complex where she lived. Schwartzbauer had been hospitalized the week before after threatening suicide.

((DID THIS CAUSE THE “estrangement” then also? Or was it his “mature” response to that estrangement?))

((Hospitalization brings up this question: Was he on medication? What was the follow-up? Was his ability to survive in life dependent upon his partner? Did they BOTH live or only her in this apartment? Was it male PMS, given the age difference?))

The Wyoming Police Department, with the help of family members, had removed all the guns from Schwartzbauer’s home. Anoka County sheriff’s officials were investigating where Schwartzbauer got the gun.

GEE: Sounds like at least 3 lethality indicators there: separation, suicide threatened, and a protection order (apparently) of some sort in place, confronting the guy. Well, while they were investigating where he got the gun, another man murdered another woman in a similar situation — well possibly.

I guess this is helpful to know. It sure helped the two women in question and their former partner/spouses. I’ve known these stats, or ones like it, for years. It sure helped me to get the court’s attention, when this was in my initial reason for seeking a protection order, and subsequently in family law, after my children were stolen, I reported stalking, and also to responding police to various incidents. My having reported this now, and produced a non-response, sure helped my sense of safety thereafter, and to this date. I am glad agencies like these are receiving funding to keep a more accurate count than simply reading the newspapers, or say, checking on-line occasionally, might yield. This is a valuable, life-saving public service. For example, readers of THESE incidents now know that there were OTHERS.

“

While battering continues to occur in the lives of far too many women and children, thirty years of advocacy and social change work in the battered women’s movement have led to someimportant changes. {{FOR EXAMPLE:}} There is far more information available about domestic violence and its impact in the lives of women, children, and men, and there are now resources available to battered women and their children across the state of Minnesota and the nation.”

”MCBW strives to provide the best possible resources to battered women and to the advocates that work on their behalf. Please utilize the resources available through this website, and do not hesitate to contact the MCBW office if you have further questions or are looking for information that is not included on this site.

Minnesota is indeed a hotspot of federal funding for violence against women nonprofits. That is a separate post. They know much violence happens around separation, and that suicide is an indicator. Perhaps this case (these cases) hadn’t shown up with a history of prior battering, and so warnings were not issued?

Four others were murdered by partners who then tried to kill themselves but failed. While firearms have been most prevalently used in murder-suicides, 13 percent of Minnesota women murdered by an intimate partner from 1989 through 2005 were strangled.

I told you groups were counting, and I showed you (last post?) for at least how long people with access to the internet (and looking for this information) have had access to “risk assessments” “danger assessments’” or “lethality indicators.” Since 1989 here, 1985 my last post. So here we are24 years later, same indicators still not being heeded and acted appropriately on. 5 years AFTER this group started, apparently, a national Violence Against Women Act was passed, with lots of funding to stop precisely this kind of thing. AFTER this, apparently, the family law system with its weak-ass consideration of domestic violence was developed, and possibly — possibly — influenced some of the ignorance in these matters of what to do to keep her safe. And him.

In 1999, 10 years AFTER this organization began (and 5 years after the “dynamic duo” of: VAWA and NFI (National Fatherhood Initiative), we get N.H. and other Congressmen testifying (Washington D.C.) the public proclamation that Father’s Day ain’t good enough, we need, and right next to it, a “National Fathers Return Day” also. Similar declaration (is it “enough” yet?) now going on in Kansas; please call to protest (INFO BELOW)**

06-17-1999

Be it Resolved, That the Senate–

(1) recognizes that the creation of a better United States requires the active involvement of fathers in the rearing and development of their children;

((The what? The “creation” of a better United States? — IS THIS SOME NEW CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT and stance I MISSED SOMEWHERE IN THE LAST 20 YEARS? That resolved to replace the mandate of the Declaration of Independence {{from the oppressive regime of England, REMEMBER??}} with the Declaration of Utopia Manufacturing, Inc.? LET ME DOUBLECHECK:

Preamble: ”We the people of these United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare (not specific!), and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.”

Did you note the word “LIBERTY” and did you see the word in order to “create a more perfect Union” or was it “form” (out of what was already there…). The word “create” in this document was reserved at least here to reference to a Creator.

Use of the word “blessings” is from a generalized belief in a God. As does the Declaration of Independence, in:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

When in the course of human events, it bcomes necessary for one MARRIAGE and/or one INTIMATE PARTNERSHIP to dissolve the bands which have connected the individuals in it to one another, and to assume among the citizens of this nation, the separate and equal station to which the laws of this land (let alone nature, and nature’s God) entitle them. . . .

Guess what? When this came to a time in my life, his and mine, I had to declare in public why and get legal help to do so.

Note: ”separate and equal.” I don’t hear “separate and equal” in this above, 1999, resolution — or anything like it.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. “

These people did NOT like being oppressed, and this Constitution and the separation from Great Britain was in order to protest that and stop being Colonized and Used. While this continued and continues (to this day) to groups and subgroups of people within the U.S. (and outside it, by the U.S., regrettably), THIS DOCUMENT TALKS ABOUT THOSE RIGHTS. . . . . Not designer families, which are NOT its province!

(How can one consent to what one is not informed of?)

“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

“. . . all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Am I talking about anything contrary to law, bill of rights or the U.S. Constitution? NO. I am talking about what sure evinces a design to reduce — women, in particularly mothers who have had to or chose to divorce or separate — under absolute Despotism, egged on by speeches like these here, and enacted into laws and then followed through by tax-supported grants to make sure no Dad — when there has been a risk in particular — is REALLY fully separated from his children. The pattern of the family courts follows resolutions like this one and results, too often, in certifiably insane protection orders like the above one, resulting in: 2 deaths, 3 orphans, and distress all round.

Because I now realize the status quo, I have had to let go (to date) of attempting to see my own daughters, laying low lest this person has himself a “bad hair day” or incites a friend/relative to, and my relatives HAVE been incited to participate, as have strangers, in several aggressively illegal actions.

BACK TO 1999 and “recreating the United States in the image of a few fathers’ and other “prominent” (if not logical) thinkers.”

(2) urges each father in the United States to accept his full share of responsibility for the lives of his children, to be actively involved in rearing his children, and to encourage the emotional, academic, moral, and spiritual development of his children;

(3) urges the States to hold fathers who ignore their legal responsibilities accountable for their actions and to pursue more aggressive enforcement of child support obligations;

STATES HAVE DROPPED THE BALL — THEIR HANDS ARE TOO BUSY ADMINISTERING FUNDS TO PUT DADS BACK IN HOMES THEY LEFT OR WERE THROWN OUT OF. THIS INVOLVES SOME BRIBERY IN VENUE OF CHILD SUPPORT ADJUSTMENTS, AND ALL TOO OFTEN WITHIN THE COURT SYSTEM. SUPPOSEDLY THIS IS FOR THE KIDS’ SAKE.

Douglas Ouellette returned. . . . .

(MINNESOTA NEWS ARTICLE, CONT’D).

The Coalition’s Shellene Johnson said women are at greater danger to be killed by a partner when they attempt to leave or have just left the relationship. She said that often, protective orders alone don’t protect the woman.

“Our hope is the courts and mental health community will start recognizing that this is a significant red flag, and look into the context of what’s happening in those relationships,” she said.

MCBW’s HOPE. Their HOPE, after 30 years of advocacy — I gather, 1979, 1989, 1999, and the latest 2009 murder/suicide — there is a HOPE that the mental health community will START recognizing that an attempted suicide is a red flag. . . . THAT’s bright. What’s the bill?

A relative of Doug Ouellette declined to comment. Calls to other relatives were not returned.

Abby Simons • 612-673-4921

More National Fatherhood Initiatives, this one in Kansas.

( it just keeps going, going, going as they keep killing, killing killing when she tries to separate):