I play dragon rulers, which drops Big Eye and Dracossack every turn, sometimes two in a single turn. I can still get sacked by freaking Gem-Knights. The cards aren't the problem, you have to adjust your skill level accordingly. GRANTED, they are pretty stupid cards. But I don't think either of them or even Shock Master is ban worthy.

I play dragon rulers, which drops Big Eye and Dracossack every turn, sometimes two in a single turn. I can still get sacked by freaking Gem-Knights. The cards aren't the problem, you have to adjust your skill level accordingly. GRANTED, they are pretty stupid cards. But I don't think either of them or even Shock Master is ban worthy.

I consider dragosack, big eye, shock master and many other cards ban worthy. not because they are unbeatable, but they change the way the game is played. since those strong XYZ, which are easy to get on the field, the way the game was played changed a lot. you can get XYZ with any monster and any time (you don't have to draw them first). the game doesn't offer a lot of variation any more, since every move mostly leads to the same XYZ monster.

Good morning, everyone.
I’d like to give a hopefully objective review on how the game changed, because I like this game and I will force my interests and opinions on everyone^^
Probably the most noticeable change is how the Extra-Deck gained more influence and importance. In the past, when the Extra-Deck only stored Fusion-Monsters before you summon them, most decks didn’t have an Extra-Deck, because a Fusion-Summon requires assembling the specific monsters listed on the Fusion-Monster. This changed when Synchro-Monsters were introduced in the 3rd generation. They are also stored in the Extra-Deck, but unlike Fusion-Monsters, you don’t need specific cards to summon them. You only need to collect Monsters whose total level is equal to the Level of the Synchro-Monster which you want to summon and one of those monsters has to be a Tuner. In order to summon the XYZ-Monsters you don’t even need a tuner, you only need to collect Monsters with the same level.
As Synchro- and XYZ-Monsters usually don’t need specific monsters to be summoned, but can be summoned by combining any monsters, you can decide which one you want to summon based on the situation. Furthermore, many new cards and archetypes focus on modifying the level of your Monsters, so you can summon Synchro and XYZ even easier.
As summoning Syncro and XYZ became very easy and you can chose the monster which you want to summon based on the situation, most players chose this -apparently superior- strategy over older strategies.
Before the introduction of Synchro and XYZ, there was another big change in the game dynamic. That change occurred at the end of the 2nd generations, when the archetypes “Lightworn” and “dark Counterparts” were released. Since then, the Graveyard gained a lot of importance. Lightsworn force you to put cards from your Deck to your Graveyard, while Dark Counterparts require cards in your Graveyard to be played. Later similar cards were released to give you more control over which cards you have in your graveyard and more ways to use them. Though this strategy worked quite well, now it is nearly never used alone anymore, but only as part of a deck which also summons Synchro and XYZ.
Therefore most duels are just like the other, since both player play with a deck based on summoning the same Synchro- and XYZ-Monsters.

Hardly. Yes, most decks will use those aspects of the game, but how they are used varies wildly. More options in play means more different playstyles, and more strategic decisions on the part of the player, adding a layer of complexity to the game, reducing the infuence of luck and increasing the influence of skill. I honestly prefer the way the game is played now to how it was played back then, because it favours the thinking man and not the lucky.

I made a different experience.
Since now you can easily get the right XYZ or Synchro for every situation, you don't have to think that much any more. When you encounter Problem A, you summon Solution A, when you encounter Problem B, you summon Solution B. Synchro and XYZ can be summoned nearly always, so you always have access to the solutions for the problems. Before you could Summon cards regardless of your Luck, you had to solve the problem with the cards in your hand. sure, which cards you had depended on luck, but therefore solving a problem demanded a lot more thinking than it does now. Also in deck building you had to design your deck in a way that you have a solution for everything all the time. that also demanded a much higher amount of thinking than building a deck with which you can summon Synchro and XYZ easily.
I made the experience that a well build deck without Extra-Deck might not always give you the perfect hand, but with enough skill you can always find a solution for every problem. But that demands more thinking than simply summoning the proper solution from your Extra-Deck.

theoretically the introduction of XYZ and Synchro could increase the strategy part. but that's not the case. the game dynamic changed in a different way.

Second, new card types means more options, more options means more decisions being made in-game, and that means more outcomes based on thought. That's how trading card games work. Simply having a card doesn't mean you know how or when to use it. And no card is a solution. Every card has 1 function, and no single effect can beat an opponent alone. It's figuring out how to us these things together in your exact situation that wins you the game. The new features mean you're constantly thinking ahead, trying to figure out your opponent's next move, whereas in the past, Yu-Gi-Oh simply boiled down to "what is the strongest card I can play right now".

The game is different now. The issues you might encounter on the field are typically much more complex than "monster with 2000 atk." And you can't simply summon anything from your extra deck on demand. For instance, perhaps your deck is really good at summoning rank 4 XYZ monsters, but literally can't summon rank 3 XYZ monsters. Now, there DOES exist spot removal in rank 4, but usually at a cost.

And the Forbidden/Limited list still exists to get rid of or hinder the "play this and you win" cards.

I mean there is no such thing as making an experience. Experiences are had.

And as far as your scenario goes, that tells me nothing about the game state. Yes, I may have a way to get around that monster thanks to my extra deck. But what cost do I have to pay to summon it? Would I rather use that cost on something else? Should I get a monster with a much higher attack to avoid Forbidden Lance and similar cards? Or should I get a 2100 attack monster who is vulnerable to those cards, but has a better effect? Does my opponent have any traps set? Might I instead be better off getting a monster that can deal with those traps but is still weaker than the monster? Or should I keep my potential materials on the field, where I can use them for other purposes?

This is the thought process of modern Yu-Gi-Oh players during every turn of every game. You can't tell me that before Yu-Gi-Oh became a complex game, duelists had to put in anywhere near as much thought into their actions.

When you have a bucket of water and a bucket of oil, you don't need as much thinking to put out a fire, than when you only have a bucket of oil. the more tools you have, the less creativity is needed to solve a problem.

yes you are. sure, theoretically Synchro and XYZ could make the game more complex, but that's not how the dynamic evolved. the game just isn't played the way you describe it.
There are cards and strategies which appear to be superior. most player rely only on those few common "Meta"-decks. just go out and duel, 90% of what you see will be Meta. why? because they seem to be strong. so therefore everyone plays them. in order to still be the winner, players try to increase the speed.

Imagine you were about to start a battle. so far every player could chose between pepper and a flashlight as a weapon. now there is a new weappeon: a gun. sure, when there are 3 weapons, in play, the battle could be more complex than with only two weapons. but everyone would only rely on the gun and try to just shoot first. nobody would think about blinding their opponent with a flashlight, then using the pepper on him and stealing his gun.
The balancing is the problem. since XYZ and Synchro and actually all new cards are a lot stronger than old cards, people will mostly rely onthem. of cause you can beat them with old cards, my main deck is totally second generation, but just because you can doesn't mean you do. most people only use what appears to be the strongest and therefore everyone uses the same decks and the game is boring.

But the point is, there aren't just 3 options, there are hundreds or thousands. No matter if everyone is using the same cards, each deck contains 40, minimum, which means you have potentially limitless different situations to deal with, and it's your job as a duelist to try to figure out what exactly you are dealing with, and how to deal with as much of it as possible with the resources at his disposal.

Consider, someone sees his opponent has a few set cards. He could try swinging at his opponent's life points for decent damage, or synchro-ing into Stardust Dragon so those traps won't destroy his monsters, but if one of those cards is Compulsary Evacuation Device then he'll have wasted his monsters.

what I am reading is "because there are more cards, there are more options and more situations. therefore you have to think more"

but that's where you are wrong. there aren't more cards. most people only use the few newest cards, because they seem to be superior.

more different situations? no, not really. nearly all decks are build so they produce the same result regardless of the situation. you only get to see the same stuff all the time. there isn't any thinking. people copy decks from recipes and don't know how to play the game properly. those decks have ways for everything, sure, but the players are stupid and don't know them. they only know how to deal with other meta decks. that's nothing new, it has always been like this. but now that you can simply summon the tool from your extra deck regardless of the situation, you need even less creativity and now that your opponents deck is focused on nothing but summoning XYZ from his Extra Deck, they are so predictable, that you need even less creativity.

I played at the UK nationals this year, and play against resonably close to meta decks constantly, and I run into the situation I described above every other game. I have first hand experience that what I'm saying is correct, so please don't give me that bull.

And don't you dare pretend that people don't use old cards. There are still staples from the very beginning of the game. Monster Reborn was only just banned again. Sangan was banned at the start of the year. Compulsary Evacuation Device was just Limited. And any deck that can make Level 8 Synchros runs at least 1 of both Stardust Dragon and Scrap Dragon.

There are cards and strategies which appear to be superior. most player rely only on those few common "Meta"-decks. just go out and duel, 90% of what you see will be Meta. why? because they seem to be strong. so therefore everyone plays them. in order to still be the winner, players try to increase the speed.

The game has ALWAYS been like this. Before the Forbidden list existed, there were about 20 or so cards that were in literally every deck. People are always trying to find the best way to win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kronus

but now that you can simply summon the tool from your extra deck regardless of the situation

That's not even true. There are MANY real, in game situations in which you realize your only out to the situation you are in is a monster in your extra deck that you can't summon at the moment. Even if you do manage to get it out, it might get hit by Bottomless, Warning, Dimensional Prison, Mirror Force, Effect Veiler.

I played at the UK nationals this year, and play against resonably close to meta decks constantly, and I run into the situation I described above every other game. I have first hand experience that what I'm saying is correct, so please don't give me that bull.

oh well, my experience is different. I am also playing this game, so I also have first hand experience that what I am saying is correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupermewX300

And don't you dare pretend that people don't use old cards. There are still staples from the very beginning of the game. Monster Reborn was only just banned again. Sangan was banned at the start of the year. Compulsary Evacuation Device was just Limited. And any deck that can make Level 8 Synchros runs at least 1 of both Stardust Dragon and Scrap Dragon.

I don't pretend people aren't using old cards any more. I pretend the big eye is stronger than snatchsteal and probably even stronger than change of heart. I know people are using old cards, simply because the oldest cards of a came are always extreme. but I see very little roid decks and also not many amazoness decks. I know you play so I thought it was unnecessary to tell you that monster reborn is still used, but apparently I was wrong. yes, there are some special old cards in the game. but in general, old cards aren't used any more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaydrix

The game has ALWAYS been like this. Before the Forbidden list existed, there were about 20 or so cards that were in literally every deck. People are always trying to find the best way to win.

I never said it was different in the past. but now it's even more boring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaydrix

That's not even true. There are MANY real, in game situations in which you realize your only out to the situation you are in is a monster in your extra deck that you can't summon at the moment. Even if you do manage to get it out, it might get hit by Bottomless, Warning, Dimensional Prison, Mirror Force, Effect Veiler.

oh, excuse me for not listing every exception to the rule. yes, there ARE situations where you can't summon them. but I suppose you agree there are less situations where you can't summon XYZ than situations where you can't fusion summon. they are just super easy to summon.

____________________

I am not talking about tournament players, you know? I am talking about casual players. and since Synchro, actually since Dark Armed Dragon, playing with casual players became more and more boring, because of the mentioned changes.

I am not talking about tournament players, you know? I am talking about casual players. and since Synchro, actually since Dark Armed Dragon, playing with casual players became more and more boring, because of the mentioned changes.

I will agree that playing against someone who actually knows what they are doing is a MUCH different experience than playing against a scrub using an autopilot deck. I have a friend that used to play, and he was terrible at the game, but he constantly topped tournaments because he was running Frog Monarchs at their peak.

you see? that's what I am talking about, since those people with their autopilot decks are unfortunately (according to my experience) the average players. and since it's quite easy to Synchro and XYZ, those autopilots are now even easier to follow and that makes them even more predictable and even more boring.

I don't pretend people aren't using old cards any more. I pretend the big eye is stronger than snatchsteal and probably even stronger than change of heart. I know people are using old cards, simply because the oldest cards of a came are always extreme. but I see very little roid decks and also not many amazoness decks. I know you play so I thought it was unnecessary to tell you that monster reborn is still used, but apparently I was wrong. yes, there are some special old cards in the game. but in general, old cards aren't used any more.

Of course Number 11: Big Eye is stronger than no cost, cast-from-hand spell cards! You need to Exceed 2 level seven monsters to summon it! Plus, as a single monster you have a thousand counters for it, Bottomless, Warning, Compluse, Feindish Chain, Veiler, Breakthrough Skill. And the same can be said for any and all Extra Deck monsters. Every card can be countered. And the vast majority of those counters have been around for many years.

so a spell card which you have to draw out of your 40 cards which gives you a monster for 1 turn is stronger than a strong monster which you can basically summon any time you want in a dragon ruler deck, which gives you permanent control over 2 cards?

so a spell card which you have to draw out of your 40 cards which gives you a monster for 1 turn is stronger than a strong monster which you can basically summon any time you want in a dragon ruler deck, which gives you permanent control over 2 cards?

Well, after January 1, the "Dragon Ruler" deck won't really exist any more...

Okay, hello~
I'm just gonna talk about my thoughts on the current state of the card game.
Pretty much everyone is hating on Nekroz and Qliphort recently, which is understandable yet kind of simple-minded. In general, Pendulum receives a lot of hate with people being scared of the release of the new performages because of the consistency that they offer.
While Rank 4 XYZ stays strong as always, I have to say that aside from some minor flaws (Unbanning Raigeki and strange horribly long loops that lead to Shooting Quasar Dragon), the card game, as it currently is, is really balanced.
Why do I think so? It's because as long as a crystal beast deck (don't ask why I even play them) can beat Qliphort, Qliphort can't be that strong.
Interestingly, Elemental Heroes seem to get some attention lately as they are fairly consistent. I experienced really awesome results with Evil Heroes aswell, although I consider Masked Heroes to be kind of boring.
Oh, and Aromages deserve an award for being the most trolling archetype ever created.

Interestingly, Elemental Heroes seem to get some attention lately as they are fairly consistent. I experienced really awesome results with Evil Heroes aswell, although I consider Masked Heroes to be kind of boring.

Really? I main E Heroes with most focus on Masked Heroes and I find the deck really fun to use. Well, each to their own I guess.

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