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Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by javs26

He will choose the NFL and it is the smart move to make. Right now, he is projected to go in the 1st round, 2nd round at the latest. He will make more upfront money in the NFL than MLB. He will have to ride the buses a few years in baseball before he gets to his big money contract. He probably would have already made 20 million by that point in football, not to mention the endorsements he will be getting. He is still deciding between the two sports but the latest information is he is leaning to football. He submitted to have his round grade for the NFL Draft this week. I think he wants to play both but that would be difficult in today's world, especially playing the QB position. For me, I think he is going to go high in the first round.

If he is successful in baseball, he’ll earn more than he ever could playing football.

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by Ian Carlson

That’s the thing, that little word “if”. He doesn’t even have to be successful in the NFL to make big $$.

Very true. I guess if he believes in his baseball talent enough, the choice is baseball. If he doesn’t, the choice is football. I’m speaking simply in dollar terms of course, sure he’ll be successful in whatever he chooses.

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Man what a dilemma....take my 4.5M signing bonus and have the opportunity to play baseball for 20 years. Or forgo the signing bonus and get drafted most likely in the 1st round and sign a mostly guaranteed rookie contract that will pay you handsomely.
I hope this kid alone settles the specialization debate for both baseball and football players. That is the worst thing you could do for your body.

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by ASURAM2010

Man what a dilemma....take my 4.5M signing bonus and have the opportunity to play baseball for 20 years. Or forgo the signing bonus and get drafted most likely in the 1st round and sign a mostly guaranteed rookie contract that will pay you handsomely. I hope this kid alone settles the specialization debate for both baseball and football players. That is the worst thing you could do for your body.

You got that right. Our high school is a state power both on the gridiron and diamond and over the last five or six years, we've lost football and basketball players to going baseball only in a significant number. And the primary concern from their parents after being sweet talked by the high school coaches (although they deny it) and these select league coaches it's good for them to this because the schollie chances will be enhanced because you will avoid career altering injury. Ironically some of these same kids who were sold this track are either no longer playing baseball at the higher levels or didn't really get a chance because guess what? They ended up having TJ surgery or constant back or hip issues due to baseball overuse and most of them were also pitchers, but played positions as well where they might have been utlized at the next level.

We also had some kids that either quit football to go baseball only to later comeback to play football or some who got very close to quitting football. Ironically a few of those got injured not playing football, but baseball after all the concern. One of them busted his knee during a summer select game on a sprinkler head diving for a baseball in centerfield. Go figure. Another damaged a shoulder doing some intense weight lifting. But I recall to this day how concerned those kid's parents were and almost obsessive about their boy getting hurt playing football.

What is ironic in all of this is some of our best football and baseball players who went on to play Div 1 college football or baseball (and a few went to the MLB) , played both football and baseball at the high school level. That was before the select or pay to play era really started kicking into high gear. I have to admit I got suckered into that nonsense with my first born when it became the thing to do for baseball around here. It took me a few weeks to figure out something more was at play and said no mas. Thankfully and as much as I hate to say it because I like baseball, my middle kid decided not to play baseball in high school because it seems to be a prerequiste around here to be part of one of these team in order to get the high school coaches to give you the time of day. Actually our program has probably suffered more because of that attitude vs benefited since we haven't been back to the State Tourney since 2011 if I recall correctly. That's about the time the select league thing really got it's jump start in this region.... Ironically.

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by LSC Fan

You got that right. Our high school is a state power both on the gridiron and diamond and over the last five or six years, we've lost football and basketball players to going baseball only in a significant number. And the primary concern from their parents after being sweet talked by the high school coaches (although they deny it) and these select league coaches it's good for them to this because the schollie chances will be enhanced because you will avoid career altering injury. Ironically some of these same kids who were sold this track are either no longer playing baseball at the higher levels or didn't really get a chance because guess what? They ended up having TJ surgery or constant back or hip issues due to baseball overuse and most of them were also pitchers, but played positions as well where they might have been utlized at the next level.

We also had some kids that either quit football to go baseball only to later comeback to play football or some who got very close to quitting football. Ironically a few of those got injured not playing football, but baseball after all the concern. One of them busted his knee during a summer select game on a sprinkler head diving for a baseball in centerfield. Go figure. Another damaged a shoulder doing some intense weight lifting. But I recall to this day how concerned those kid's parents were and almost obsessive about their boy getting hurt playing football.

What is ironic in all of this is some of our best football and baseball players who went on to play Div 1 college football or baseball (and a few went to the MLB) , played both football and baseball at the high school level. That was before the select or pay to play era really started kicking into high gear. I have to admit I got suckered into that nonsense with my first born when it became the thing to do for baseball around here. It took me a few weeks to figure out something more was at play and said no mas. Thankfully and as much as I hate to say it because I like baseball, my middle kid decided not to play baseball in high school because it seems to be a prerequiste around here to be part of one of these team in order to get the high school coaches to give you the time of day. Actually our program has probably suffered more because of that attitude vs benefited since we haven't been back to the State Tourney since 2011 if I recall correctly. That's about the time the select league thing really got it's jump start in this region.... Ironically.

It is just mind blowing to me to see the research and statistics about the risk of injury going way up when you specialize and it doesn't really matter what sport you specialize in. Baseball gets the worst of it because like you said, the majority of specialization happens due to moron select coaches say it will get you scholarships and drafted if you play year round. We had a kid at the small (3A) local school I graduated from, that was a stud baseball player, above average basketball player, and an all district football player. After his sophomore season (or maybe freshman, I don't remember) he decided to go straight baseball. From the time football season was over through the end of that summer, the longest he went without picking up a baseball and playing or practicing at an extremely high level was 1 day. He pops his UCL midway through that summer and continues to play. He obviously had to sit out the next season and I believe had to miss 2 full years because his ortho doc told him that if he wanted to play again at a high level that he had to rest. His doc told him to not pitch again at the high school level due to the stresses on his body. This kid was 14 years old having TJ. And there are literally hundreds if not thousands of stories just like that.

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by ASURAM2010

It is just mind blowing to me to see the research and statistics about the risk of injury going way up when you specialize and it doesn't really matter what sport you specialize in. Baseball gets the worst of it because like you said, the majority of specialization happens due to moron select coaches say it will get you scholarships and drafted if you play year round. We had a kid at the small (3A) local school I graduated from, that was a stud baseball player, above average basketball player, and an all district football player. After his sophomore season (or maybe freshman, I don't remember) he decided to go straight baseball. From the time football season was over through the end of that summer, the longest he went without picking up a baseball and playing or practicing at an extremely high level was 1 day. He pops his UCL midway through that summer and continues to play. He obviously had to sit out the next season and I believe had to miss 2 full years because his ortho doc told him that if he wanted to play again at a high level that he had to rest. His doc told him to not pitch again at the high school level due to the stresses on his body. This kid was 14 years old having TJ. And there are literally hundreds if not thousands of stories just like that.

Oh yea. It's not uncommon to see kids around here about that age with a sling and when you don't see a full arm cast, you know it's TJ without even having to ask. Especially if they don't play football, so that rules out collar bone and shoulder injuries for the most part.

I marvel at the amount of money parents will spend on the select thing as well. Sadly with some of my boys class and teammates, their parents spent enough to probably pay for four years of college or close to it at a public university. And their sons didn't play one inning of college baseball. I think some of that was from general burnout of being pushed by their parents with the select league stuff and when we lost in the Regional Final a couple of years ago, you could see some of the kids faces as they were not that upset and they were glad it was over and I think it might of shocked their parents too.

It got so ridiculous when my oldest was playing spring league ball while in upper grade and middle school, they had kids who played select and league ball at the same time. The parents were so gung ho about their kid playing on such and such team, some of the league games had to be cancelled because not enough kids would show up. That eventually started a rebellion with league parents who told the board you either tell the team their kids show up or you forfeit. Then you had parents who would rush their kids from the league games to the select games which in some cases were 30 mins away and you could read the body language on the kids they didn't want to go. Some parents are idiots!

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by LSC Fan

You got that right. Our high school is a state power both on the gridiron and diamond and over the last five or six years, we've lost football and basketball players to going baseball only in a significant number. And the primary concern from their parents after being sweet talked by the high school coaches (although they deny it) and these select league coaches it's good for them to this because the schollie chances will be enhanced because you will avoid career altering injury. Ironically some of these same kids who were sold this track are either no longer playing baseball at the higher levels or didn't really get a chance because guess what? They ended up having TJ surgery or constant back or hip issues due to baseball overuse and most of them were also pitchers, but played positions as well where they might have been utlized at the next level.

We also had some kids that either quit football to go baseball only to later comeback to play football or some who got very close to quitting football. Ironically a few of those got injured not playing football, but baseball after all the concern. One of them busted his knee during a summer select game on a sprinkler head diving for a baseball in centerfield. Go figure. Another damaged a shoulder doing some intense weight lifting. But I recall to this day how concerned those kid's parents were and almost obsessive about their boy getting hurt playing football.

What is ironic in all of this is some of our best football and baseball players who went on to play Div 1 college football or baseball (and a few went to the MLB) , played both football and baseball at the high school level. That was before the select or pay to play era really started kicking into high gear. I have to admit I got suckered into that nonsense with my first born when it became the thing to do for baseball around here. It took me a few weeks to figure out something more was at play and said no mas. Thankfully and as much as I hate to say it because I like baseball, my middle kid decided not to play baseball in high school because it seems to be a prerequiste around here to be part of one of these team in order to get the high school coaches to give you the time of day. Actually our program has probably suffered more because of that attitude vs benefited since we haven't been back to the State Tourney since 2011 if I recall correctly. That's about the time the select league thing really got it's jump start in this region.... Ironically.

High school coaches cause specialization. The only coaches that really like dual sport athletes are football coaches, and they can be real *****es in the summer when kids are missing lifting because of playing baseball.

My nephew just turned 16 and I have had a lot of experience with youth baseball because of it.

What do you guys consider too much? What expenses are too much? Are you talking about programs like the Banditos?

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by ASURAM2010

It is just mind blowing to me to see the research and statistics about the risk of injury going way up when you specialize and it doesn't really matter what sport you specialize in. Baseball gets the worst of it because like you said, the majority of specialization happens due to moron select coaches say it will get you scholarships and drafted if you play year round. We had a kid at the small (3A) local school I graduated from, that was a stud baseball player, above average basketball player, and an all district football player. After his sophomore season (or maybe freshman, I don't remember) he decided to go straight baseball. From the time football season was over through the end of that summer, the longest he went without picking up a baseball and playing or practicing at an extremely high level was 1 day. He pops his UCL midway through that summer and continues to play. He obviously had to sit out the next season and I believe had to miss 2 full years because his ortho doc told him that if he wanted to play again at a high level that he had to rest. His doc told him to not pitch again at the high school level due to the stresses on his body. This kid was 14 years old having TJ. And there are literally hundreds if not thousands of stories just like that.

There are 11.3? scholarships per baseball team in D1 and 9 total in D2. There is a lot more academic money for great baseball players than there is athletic money.

You can throw a baseball all year round without issue. The problem is competing all year and especially pitching all year (testosterone aided pitching). We hold our pitchers under 1,000 pitches per calendar year. Some kids will hit 25% of that in one weekend.

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by LSC Fan

Oh yea. It's not uncommon to see kids around here about that age with a sling and when you don't see a full arm cast, you know it's TJ without even having to ask. Especially if they don't play football, so that rules out collar bone and shoulder injuries for the most part.

I marvel at the amount of money parents will spend on the select thing as well. Sadly with some of my boys class and teammates, their parents spent enough to probably pay for four years of college or close to it at a public university. And their sons didn't play one inning of college baseball. I think some of that was from general burnout of being pushed by their parents with the select league stuff and when we lost in the Regional Final a couple of years ago, you could see some of the kids faces as they were not that upset and they were glad it was over and I think it might of shocked their parents too.

It got so ridiculous when my oldest was playing spring league ball while in upper grade and middle school, they had kids who played select and league ball at the same time. The parents were so gung ho about their kid playing on such and such team, some of the league games had to be cancelled because not enough kids would show up. That eventually started a rebellion with league parents who told the board you either tell the team their kids show up or you forfeit. Then you had parents who would rush their kids from the league games to the select games which in some cases were 30 mins away and you could read the body language on the kids they didn't want to go. Some parents are idiots!

Spot on! The parents of these kids have gone mad. These kids are spending 2 hours practicing every night and tournaments all wknd.

My son played select AA & AAA. He had exceptional hand eye coordination and hit a ton of HRs. Btw, the bats are juiced. He never had a great arm but enjoyed hanging out with the other boys. The coach decided to make him the emergency catcher because he was really good at keeping balls off the backstop plus he had size and could block the plate. He ended up logging more time behind the plate than our regular catchers almost 2-1 combined. He didn’t care for the position either. Well, after 3 years of playing year round during the World Series about 4 rounds deep into the tournament he looked at me and said I’m done. I thought he didn’t want to catch anymore to show you how far out in left field I was. Here is a 12 year old kid in the middle of a 2-1 game in the World Series telling you he has had enough. I added up all the games he played from February to July that year and it was astonishing 77. After the WS, no amount of begging, cajoling or talking by at least half a dozen coaches changed his mind. He only played in one other game a year later because the team was short on players. Still remember he misjudged and came up on a fly ball and then turned around and tracked it down with a great over the shoulder catch.

I would see guys wearing shirts Baseball is life. Perspective in this crowd is definitely not reality.

When you consider that only 1 to 2 percent of all High School kids get athletic scholarships this is fantasy land. The ignorance of parents not even knowing that college baseball offers very little in the way of athletic scholarships.

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by Brandon

High school coaches cause specialization. The only coaches that really like dual sport athletes are football coaches, and they can be real *****es in the summer when kids are missing lifting because of playing baseball.

My nephew just turned 16 and I have had a lot of experience with youth baseball because of it.

What do you guys consider too much? What expenses are too much? Are you talking about programs like the Banditos?

The Banditos are a good example of what I am talking about. I know a few kids and their parents who paid a premium through this organization with a few not even making an attempt at the next level. There are a number of organizations like this in these parts who have tried to same business model.

For those not in the know, here's a good article on that organization.

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by Techster88

Spot on! The parents of these kids have gone mad. These kids are spending 2 hours practicing every night and tournaments all wknd.

My son played select AA & AAA. He had exceptional hand eye coordination and hit a ton of HRs. Btw, the bats are juiced. He never had a great arm but enjoyed hanging out with the other boys. The coach decided to make him the emergency catcher because he was really good at keeping balls off the backstop plus he had size and could block the plate. He ended up logging more time behind the plate than our regular catchers almost 2-1 combined. He didn’t care for the position either. Well, after 3 years of playing year round during the World Series about 4 rounds deep into the tournament he looked at me and said I’m done. I thought he didn’t want to catch anymore to show you how far out in left field I was. Here is a 12 year old kid in the middle of a 2-1 game in the World Series telling you he has had enough. I added up all the games he played from February to July that year and it was astonishing 77. After the WS, no amount of begging, cajoling or talking by at least half a dozen coaches changed his mind. He only played in one other game a year later because the team was short on players. Still remember he misjudged and came up on a fly ball and then turned around and tracked it down with a great over the shoulder catch.

I would see guys wearing shirts Baseball is life. Perspective in this crowd is definitely not reality.

When you consider that only 1 to 2 percent of all High School kids get athletic scholarships this is fantasy land. The ignorance of parents not even knowing that college baseball offers very little in the way of athletic scholarships.

We have some friends whose son did make it to the next level. Actually he skipped the next level and went straight to the minors straight from high school. He was a second round draft pick and is now playing AAA ball in the Diamondbacks organization. His fall back in case he didn't get drafted at a certain round or get was picked by a sorry organization would have been UT where he was offered only a 60% ride. Think about that for a second noting he was on all the Baseball publication lists as top prospect, and got offers galore from every baseball power in NCAA baseball. The irony with the class he was recruited from is Augie kind of screwed the rest of his tenure at UT because he offered seven others 60% rides who all signed minor league contracts that same year and his prized recruiting class went to almost zero.

Most of the kids here locally are maybe making All District (which in some cases has been watered down to participation ribbon status) or maybe All State. I can almost be certain they are not getting 60% or more ride offers to any school at any level. But I don't think I would be wrong to guess some of their parents are paying Bandito (see above) like prices for the select/travel ball "privilege."

On the "Baseball is Life" thing.... From my observation (my oldest spent about 6 months playing select when he was in high school before I said no mas), the biggest drivers were more the Baseball Moms than Dads. Holy Cow it is almost a status like symbol to have your son playing on a certain team and the moms became a cult. Thank goodness my wife was too busy with nursing school back then to get involved with that bunch of grackles. LOL.

Re: Allen HS Kyler Murray Wins Heisman

Originally Posted by Brandon

There are 11.3? scholarships per baseball team in D1 and 9 total in D2. There is a lot more academic money for great baseball players than there is athletic money.

You can throw a baseball all year round without issue. The problem is competing all year and especially pitching all year (testosterone aided pitching). We hold our pitchers under 1,000 pitches per calendar year. Some kids will hit 25% of that in one weekend.

There is a reason every sport is supposed to have a dedicated season. I don't have an issue with kids throwing a baseball year around, playing summer ball like we used to do back in the day via American Legion, Connie Mack, , etc . Those were short six to seven week seasons during the summer with games spread out during the week as well. Fall baseball? My oldest played fall ball and the season was short and to the point. Same goes with kids who play basketball, volleyball, etc. The year around tourney/ tourney thing is taking a toll on the kids and unfortunately some parents can't seem to help themselves because they see $$$ signs. All while they spend their own $$$ to see those $$$ signs and the end result is kids coming up with TJ and other injuries that were almost unheard of back in the day. I'll give my friends that I noted above credit. Yes, they spent a good chunk of cash with the baseball travel circuit and all that. But when basketball season came around, he was dedicated to that sport from beginning to end and they made it understood to the high school coaches he was not going to play fall baseball and they would have to wait till basketball was over for his participation. In other words, they used basketball season as away for him to get that rest.

Year around baseball is not only one that is starting to take a toll on kids. I know some volleyball and soccer kids who played on what essentially is a year around circuit who have had injury issues as well. Again, things you really didn't see not too long ago either. And parents who insist their kids play what is almost year around football need to have their heads examined and afterwards maybe committed to psychiatric ward. That is insanity times ten.