There is no hope for Islam.

Many times, I have suggested reform, modernity for Islam and the Muslims. But it seems it might not be possible. The Muslim nations must be conquered with many tactics not just force, which will be necessary for Iran. Revolution, of course, hence Arab Spring. But there are the Islamists. Please. There never has been Islamists, only Muslims who believe in Islam or those who would rather enjoy the good things in life and make like they believe in parts.

There are many lapse Christians and Jews, who are also quasi-religious on the high holidays. Some donate to be recognized as still part of the community.

Before I started my weblog I belonged to a forum where the topics were mainly about the Middle East. A converted Dutchman tried to educate me about Islam and how wonderful it was in Morocco, with a benign King. He invited me to see for myself. I passed, but I asked him about the beauty and intelligence. Everything he came up with wasn't accomplished by Muslims. Even the recent infrastructures. The ideology prefers to have second class citizens to do the work, inlcuding the thinking while the believers prayed five times a day.

However, the majority have difficulty being that devout when they have tasted the offerings of the West and they see how Israel has turned sand into beauty and intelligence. The ignorant Muslims wish to destroy Israel so the Israelis could be their equal with little or nothing. But the (*)(*)(*)(*) Jews are too smart and work too hard, they must be little satans. That's it, think the clerics because it says so in the Koran.

Something was, still is, wrong.

The Dutchman gave up on me and I think he might have gone back to his previous religion or perhaps become an atheist.

Islam is a problem. Even wise Muslims in the Muslim nations know that.

Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of founder of Hamas, converted to Christianity and said reform is impossible.

“These words I am giving you with lots of pain,” he says. “Because this is the painful truth. Most of the fundamental issues that we face as Arab nations are connected to one thing, that is the absolute control of religion over people’s lives.”

“I take a stand against Islam,” he adds. “There is no way, trust me, to moderate Islam, to neutralize it, to make it fit into this new world that we live in. Unfortunately, Islam has a whole system that does not believe in separation between state and church; that does not believe in coexistence with anybody who does not believe in the theology of Islam. In fact, it does not have any harmony within the religion itself.”....

....“I came to the conclusion that there is no hope to reform Islam,” Mr. Yousef says.

“This is why, when we go to Muslim countries, we see all this ignorance and see all this persecution and torture, and beating women, and killing people and terrorism. The entire world situation today is because there is no way to reform that religion.

“I know that I look really bad and when I make a statement against Islam I am considered politically incorrect and trying to inflame the situation. But I tell you, I know the needs of my people. The most important thing that our people need is freedom from the grip of religion.”

Grievance is the stories that Muslims tell themselves to justify their violence. To explain why they kill children and why they murder the innocent. The list of grievances is an endless as the violence. Every act of violence carries its own narrative. The endless Muslim conflicts throughout the world all carry their burden of history. But it isn't a history that can be resolved with a tolerance session.

Muslim grievances are the frustration of conquerors, the broken teeth of predators who weren't allowed to feed on the world until their stomachs burst. All the lands they couldn't conqueror, the peoples who rebelled against their rule, the inferior civilizations that pushed them back and drove them off. The swine who build skyscrapers and enjoy the fine things in life.

Grievance is the stories that Muslims tell themselves to justify their violence. To explain why they kill children and why they murder the innocent. The list of grievances is an endless as the violence. Every act of violence carries its own narrative. The endless Muslim conflicts throughout the world all carry their burden of history. But it isn't a history that can be resolved with a tolerance session.

Muslim grievances are the frustration of conquerors, the broken teeth of predators who weren't allowed to feed on the world until their stomachs burst. All the lands they couldn't conqueror, the peoples who rebelled against their rule, the inferior civilizations that pushed them back and drove them off. The swine who build skyscrapers and enjoy the fine things in life.

Sounds like you are pretty young and have never spent time anywhere in the Muslim world... but you did talk with one Ducthman from Morocco.

Fundamentally, they have tons of children, spread and, despite our efforts to the contrary, terrorism is pretty effective at getting what you want out of other countries. They do not hold the lives of their fellows in particularly high regard, so if an enemy country wishes to send some of them to heaven, so be it.

Psychotic? Maybe. A plague on the west? Perhaps.

But it is also effective. And the west is simply not genocidal enough to do anything about it.

Islam may someday leave the dark ages. But if it does not, it isn't Islam that is without hope. Instead it is perhaps the west that will have to put its hope in countries like China.

Radical Islam is the problem. Not Islam itself. The western media would love you to think all Muslims are radicals because then we don't protest when the military kills civilians and children. Radical Christianity killed many people in the past as well. So have radicals from nearly every religion. Wow, atheists have killed a bunch of people too. Maybe using your logic people in general are just the problem since regardless of belief system people still kill people and atrocities have been committed. You cannot brand an entire religion over the actions of a few. Deny ignorance.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. - Patrick Henry

As with most posts on this forum, your words shall fall on deaf ears or you'll be attacked for stirring up hatred. 'Tis not nice to upset the Politically Correct crowd, they might have a bad day.

The truth is not received well.

I can't stand political correctness. However, I can't stand people who want to judge an entire race of people or an entire belief system over the actions of a few. That is ignorance plain and simple. There are good people and bad people of every color, shape, size, and yes religion falls into that category as well.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. - Patrick Henry

It is true that there are different branches of Islam. Those guys with the extra prophet from India don't sound half bad.

And obviously most Muslims in the west aren't violent. However it does seem that in contrast to Christianities underlying "turn the other cheek" message, Islam encourages violence.

So again, while it is obvious communities as a whole can manage to live their lives without committing terrorists acts, they may be like Christians unwilling to tithe or do the other things Christians ought to do.

Every group has bad apples, it just seems like when you get bad apples in Islam you get mass murder attempts.

Now that they can vote, we'll also get to see what Muslims choose to do democratically. I suppose I'm still hopeful there, and I suppose in general. I think the future of Islam is an open question.

It is true that there are different branches of Islam. Those guys with the extra prophet from India don't sound half bad.

And obviously most Muslims in the west aren't violent. However it does seem that in contrast to Christianities underlying "turn the other cheek" message, Islam encourages violence.

So again, while it is obvious communities as a whole can manage to live their lives without committing terrorists acts, they may be like Christians unwilling to tithe or do the other things Christians ought to do.

Every group has bad apples, it just seems like when you get bad apples in Islam you get mass murder attempts.

Now that they can vote, we'll also get to see what Muslims choose to do democratically. I suppose I'm still hopeful there, and I suppose in general. I think the future of Islam is an open question.