I'm based in the UK, and although all of the soldiers I know have a real sense of pride in the work they do, and largely feel they are doing
something 'worthwhile' - most of them are in the army for the money. It's not great compared to a lot of other jobs, but then, where I'm from,
it's a great deal more than the same guys would be able to earn in a factory job which is practically all they have available to them.

I think anyone who goes out there (even though there isn't much of a choice after the sign up stage) is very brave - and I support them because I
think it takes real balls to what they do.

But, that said, I don't think they are fighting for the people - I mean what exactly are they doing for us in Afghanistan, other than costing us a
HUGE fortune in the time when we have very little in terms of cash as a nation.

The soldiers in Afgahnistan certainly arn't fighting for my rights and liberty - no one in Afghanistan threatened any of my rights before hand and no
one does now.

As someone correctly stated, the only person to infringe on my liberties has been the government. I've been searched under anti-terror legislation
twice - I never was before all this crap. It wasn't the Afghanis who voted for this - it was my own government! Pffff.

fighting for the people of Afghanistan's rights maybe - but not mine. And in all honesty, I and most of the UK population don't care at all about
them. Sorry but it's true. When I have to pay 50% more to fill up my car, pay my electricity bill, feed myself - whether they have freedom of
religion or democracy is the very last thing I care about.

I'd rather have all of that cash they spent diverted into our economy. Indeed, the soldiers would be doing more for the people if they all resigned
and freed up the cash.

I completely agree with the OP. I understand that many people sign up for the military with the best intentions - its a good way to get an education,
get a job, etc. while feeling that you are doing something to serve your country.

It's that last part I have a problem with. MAYBE in the past it really was an honorable and respectable thing to join the military, but there is no
excuse for anyone today for anyone to remain ignorant of all the atrocities governments are responsible for (and I mean ALL governments, by their very
nature...not just the US.) A military is the tool of a government, and a government IMHO is by its nature an enemy of individual freedom. Based on
that very simple ideal alone, I cannot justify anyone ever joining the military.

As the OP said, the government has done more harm to the US people than any "terrorist."

In an ideal world, young people would be put off of joining the military due to their peers' and elders' disdain at the illegitimate wars being
fought. Instead, communities are proud to watch their sons and daughters fly off to Iraq or Afghanistan. Aside from the money and security supposedly
provided by the military, the promise of heroism is a strong part of why so many sign up. Young people should be told that there's nothing
heroic about fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan because they were and are based on deceptions.

I'm not opposed to the concept of military at all. I take my hat off to anyone who fights for a just cause. If my country was being invaded a foreign
army I'd sign up immediately (which raises interesting points about the oh-so-evil Iraqis killing our men - are they not just defending their
nation?).

I suppose the real problem is how few actually realise that Iraq and Afghanistan are illegitimate wars. They may be ignorant, but the blame shouldn't
be placed on them. It should, as always, be placed on the corrupt Governments.

You are obviously living in some fantasy world. The last war fought justly for our freedoms was WW2, and even then there is some speculation that
there was some conspiracy to get us into the war in the first place.
All those people in military graveyards were victims of the mass propaganda of an immoral government. And the reasoning behind this is simple, who has
the most to gain from all these little wars and invasions? As Jim Marrs so aptly states it, "just follow the money".
John Q. Adams once said something to the effect that America in its drive to control the world will lose its soul. Something we lost a long time ago.
We are about to reap what we have sown, for like people nations too accumulate karma good and bad.

*hello
*i think it is the cause not the men that should be taken in consideration although the job of soldier can be a very controversial one:it is not as
productive as the one of a doctor,a teacher,all those jobs you need either in time of peace or time of war
*the heroic soldier is of course a myth and this is what it is often referred to them as anonymous:they are simply guys who lost their lives for
causes they have nothing to do with:see who make profits out of war while other remain disabled for the rest of their life
*you don't need to be a soldier to defend your values,your homeland,your beloved ones because soldier nowadays don't defend but attack,destroy,kill
,rape....
*being a soldier is not a job....i cannot tell exactly what it is

Originally posted by TheRandom1
one that is no better than any other government, in all actuallity, they are serving the NWO.

I think you lost 95% of the people right here with your argument, for if the US Govrnemnt is the NWO then anyone who is an American is NWO. If you
live in America and say then you are not NWO then I suggest you stop helping them and move to a country where you can be against them.

You see, they are also brainwashed, there's this thing called "bootcamp", where they "break people down and then build them up", during this part
of training, they are being reprogrammed into deny the ability to think for themselves (sounds mean, but it's not meant to, it's true), to be told
what to think, believe, do, all by the goverment.

An obvious statement from a person who has no clue to what basic training is all about....geez buddy post on what you know and not something you make
up on the fly that just happens to fit your narrow view of reality.

I know this is true because I have friends and family that have/are miitary, I see other people on this board that are military talk about there
approval of pretty much anything the government does.

Actually it is called Liberal, Conservative and Independent and not brained washed soldiers. If it is as you say then 99% of America is brained washed
too. I just retired with 28 years in the service and I can tell you I disagreed with a lot. I saw Carter as a failure, Ragan great, Bush Sr boring,
Clinton worthless, and I’m holding out on Bush, but I do think there have been some really big failures on his watch.

I actually like Ron Paul and Mitt Romney. For I want s smaller federal government foot print with a much larger state government foot print since we
are the “United State” . This would give every state the ability to be as the people of that state votes to be, and so people can live in the
state that matches their views. I was also impressed that a Republican governor was very successful in a liberal state as Romney was.

I really disliked McCain, and I see Obama as a wet behind the ears two year senator who achieved rock star status because he just happened to be a
young, smart and articulate black man. Hilary scares the crap out of me and Biden is not much better than Chaney. Also I don’t like it that all the
top spots will be filled by Senators who as a whole have not been able to legislate their way out of a paper bag for 15 plus years.

With all my years in the military do I sound like a brainwashed zombie?

Now I know that some soldiers do some good things in the world, like the coast gaurd rescuing people and stuff like that, I'm not saying that all of
them are bad or that they never do any good.

The vast majority of the military never shoots at anyone and spends the majority of their career helping others in some way or another. I have 1000s
of missions under my belt doing nothing but supplying food and supplies for those around the world in need. This is another case of ignorance on your
part as to what the military really does.

Plus everyone calls them heros, without even a second thought, they don't even know why, all they know i that "there fighting terrorism" or "there
fighting for your rights", none of this is true, Osama has never taken away my rights, my government has.

Well first what they do is really hard work, it is not something I would not wish on anyone. So that support is for those who are day in and out in a
really nasty situation. If they were mindless zombies they would not need support, would they.

To top all this off though, I truely believe that in the near future, the soldiers will fight agianst people like me and you, people the government
deems unexceptible, I fear that the soldiers will hunt us down because they are told to and they brainwshed into doing whatever they're told because
they are told it's right.

However, I am a little more optimistic than that, I believe there will be many soldiers that will snap out of it and wake up to the truth.

You just might find that the military are more realist than anyone else since they see the world troubles up close and personal. They do not develop
fears and conspiracies from just watching news agencies and reading hype. They see things at a very micro level since they are the feet on the ground.
People like you sit back and dream of the NWO and the grand fight on terrorist, but the soldier sees that little girl they saved from dying or that
family they fed etc, or that person shooting a AF 47 in a market they killed and then evac the wounded by that gunman to military hospitals.

In case your wondering what heroism means to me, well, it's not about winning a fight, it's not about killing people or hating your enemy, it's
about sacrificing yourself for others, it's about loving your enemy, it's never about killing a few to save the many, it's about presenting an
alternative to those wh would harm others, to show them he truth and show them how t love each other and get past many of the things that sepperate
us.

Wow, you must then think the military are heroes...I am missing your point here then. The military do provide alternatives and been working very hard
for the last six years closely with the local communities. The vast majority over there wants a good life, but there are those who are willing to
strap a bomb on their chest or get into a car with 500 pound of explosives in it to further their cause. This is what has kept us in there for such a
long time, and if we left massacres would happen that would equal Darfur. Just because a military person goes over there doesn’t mean they believe
the war was the right thing to do, but they do believe that if they don’t go millions will die to secular fighting and the chaos Iran has been over
years breeding.

Finally though, these threats are being reduced to a point we can leave without causing a implosion. Leaving that country is on every military
person's mind over there for they do not want to be there but they still go and do the best job they can, and that is why we support them.

However, we have the media, telling us to support those who are opposed to our manufactured enemies of ideology, i believe when this "War on
Terrorism" comes to our shores, our people will full support what our troops are doing to our own people, no matter how evil it may be and our troops
will never think twice because the media and government has told them there whole life that they are heros for doing what they are doing.

The funny part is the military will fight for your right to post this and support you even though your views are totally against everything they do.
The reason they do this is because this ensures freedom and rights for everyone no matter what their views are.

Someone here took a big bite out of the apple and doesn't even know it.

You see, they are also brainwashed, there's this thing called "boot camp", where they "break people down and then build them up",
during this part of training, they are being reprogrammed into deny the ability to think for themselves (sounds mean, but it's not meant to, it's
true), to be told what to think, believe, do, all by the government.

This is textbook brainwashing in itself. In boot camp you do things a certain way to get repitition..confidence...to learn to follow a procedure
..such that your team or fellow soldiers can count on you. Not just to think for yourself but also to be able to think far enough to recognize danger
and risk for everyone in the team. You will eventually be tasked with handling expensive and dangerous equipment. If you cannot follow instructions
to the tee..to the letter ...precisely..people will get hurt and killed....expensive, critical, and difficult to replace equipment will be damaged.
This the key..dicipline...diciplines which can carry over to the civilian world.
If you cannot learn to follow simple instructions like how to properly fold a tee shirt..or pack your toothbrush away..how can you be trusted with a
very expensive piece of equipment or another persons life. You will not only be holding that persons life in your hands but also that persons family
future in your hands as well. You learn basic disciplines...individual responsibility as well as responsibility in a team setting.

I don't get brainwashed...I watch television..particularly MTV!!
Im sitting on the only one in town..I deserve it the others dont!!
Im an emotional train wreck but can pass it off as excellence and no one will notice or question it. I have the moral high ground. I see clearly
because I am the MTV generation.
That is why I buy this or that brand of clothes..because I am not brainwashed....I'm an individual thinker..the original.

I buy this car because I never saw an ugly woman get out of one.
I have more stereo in this car than I have brains or glands.
I ran out and got a flat screen HDTV because no one else was buying them. Im not a follower. I'm an individual thinker.
I read GQ magazine and Sports Illustrated...especially the swimsuit edition.

LOL LOL LOL..I can go on to more. But it is all around us..not just the military advertisements on the boob tube. It is called a boob tube for a good
reason. I'm not all that impressed with the civilian world either...especially the body politic..who also finance our public education system. Are
some of you getting the point here..connecting the dots??
Much of public education here=television education....how I FEEL!! Emotional train wreckism.
It is pretty obvious by some of the postings on ATS/BTS.

THe military is a good beginning for many people to a bigger world. Not staying in town and flipping burgers or working at Wally World or Lowes.
It is a beginning. Even for people who have gone to college it is a beginning to a bigger world.
No one promises you a bed of roses....or the choicest morsels off the plate/table. Life requires RISK at times ...unless one thinks they deserve to be
on the breast forever...LOL LOL..entitlements.

1. i completely agree that most of the people in the army arent heroes, but like every other corporation in the world the army has to make itself look
good or noone would want to join.

2. having gone through basic training i can tell you that it is not as intense as it sounds. the point of basic training is to teach people how to be
a soldier and to instill a sense of comraderie and confidence in each other and the leadership (which people lose after a couple months in their
actual unit anyways). it is not to break the person or their way of thinking to the point where they can be "programmed" to follow any orders given.
Soldiers are actually trained and its in the law that we dont have to follow any unlawful order.

3. im currently stationed in texas and what most of my days consist of is sitting around in an office trying to find ways to pass the time such as
throwing objects around in a circle of people as fast as we can, "combatives" (wrestling), trying to balance on objects, and of course rubber band
fights.

4. dont let movies such as i robot and eagle eye convince you that the government is capable of something like imprisoning the country. only aboot 1%
of the actual residents has actually served in the military and everyone else has the rights to bear arms.

5. why would the government turn its forces on the people that keep them in power? its alot easier to fund stuff that keeps the country entertained
and powering their armies to fight other nations and give most of the the people a sense of security while they go aboot their days. not to mention
that if they had to police the whole nation they would be quickly over run by their enemies.

In order to "die heroically for you" that would mean they signed up for the military because of him. I don't think they did. I think they did
because it suited they needs and wants just like ever other average human being on this Earth. If the soldier had the choice of dieing for him or
living for the sake of their own children, I think they would choose the latter unless they were suicidal. There are no selfless good deeds, hard to
believe and not pretty but its true. They join the military or whatever else to serve their ego, just like everyone else. They always will do
what will bring them the most pleasure, that's how we were created. Either we are all heroes then are no one is a hero.

Originally posted by jam321
Use to be the word Hero was reserved for a person performing a very heroic and brave duty, going beyond the call of duty. Like jumping in the middle
of enemy fire and saving a buddy. Nowadays, the word is overly used. Not all military are heroes, but there are some who deserve the title. Hell
nowadays, somebody making doughnuts could be considered a hero. Just depends on a person's interpretation of the word Hero.

You're right. It seems like lately every politician is trying to paint every working class citizen in America as a hero.
The joe six packs, fireman, policeman, blah blah blah...
I've heard that speech a million times and it's getting stale.
The Romans also knew how to appease the mob.

The best magic tricks are done by having the crowd focus on one intent while secretly performing another...

The problem is Soldiers are doing the dirty work for the Bankers and their croneys. Although they (myself was included) believe they are doing an
honourable thing the fact is they are not.
I cant believe people on here are talking about terrorist and 911.... Geez, I mean C'mon.... Still brainwashed into believing this crap are we?

I feel for the soldiers who have lost their lives in battle as much as i feel for their family's. But lets face it.... They have to wake up fast. I
know personally 3 members of my former regiment who where killed in Iraq.... And for f**** What? Its all lies and propaganda and people who serve in
the Military need a reality check.
I served 6 years and i swear down on my life..... I would rather kill myself than go work for my traitor government again

Edit note: I hope 1 day the guys who have put their lives in danger for lies and the familys who have lost loved ones in phoney wars will march down
to the government offices, kick their doors in and hang the evil lying B******* politicians!

I'm not sure where you get your information but most of mine is first hand. My hero's don't come from TV, don't come from the government, don't
come from a second hand source. My concept of military people being hero's comes from living with them and seeing what they do everyday. I know an
individual that came back from Iraq paralyzed from what waste down. Time after time he is asked if he has regrets and yes he wants to walk again but
time after time(without any brainwashing) he believes he was there to free a population that was battered by a military government. He believes he was
there to make sure that the past 8 years has been safe for his family to live and work and his kids to go to school here in America. He has also seen
first hand how people have benefited and now live free lives and that he says was worth his legs. Now as a father myself I would given up the use of
my legs in a heartbeat, I would even give up my life to make sure my daughter was safe from harms of this society. Now in my book that man is my hero
and I didn't have to see him on TV or watch anything put out by any government. As a veteran and knowing many vets being a hero is not based on
losing legs or getting killed. Its being willing to put someone else's life, security, well being above your own and then living with the
consequences. There are so many silent hero's out there, that I appreciate anyone that tries to illuminate just one of their life's so others can
test that measure in themselves. Are you willing to put your wife's, daughters, sons life ahead of your own? Would you give up your life for a some
child you don't even know? or another man in trouble? Instead of listing rhetoric that you have pulled off a media matters site, think for yourself.
I believe that was the intent of your post, no matter how ironic it is.

I did not the Marine Corps to be a hero. I did not join to kill anyone. I did not join to follow the NWO. I did not join to follow the government
blindly. I joined as a service to my country. I joined to gain the maturity and responsibility it taught me as a 19 year old.

I gained more from the Corps than I will bother listing here. I never saw combat and I never killed anyone. I joined at the end of the Bush 1 era
through the Clinton era so I can attest that those in the military are not ardent government followers, but most are near fanatical in their
patriotism. You become that much more fond of Mom baseball and apple pie when you find yourself in a situation overseas where it is denied to you.

I'm sorry you don't understand where the military members of your family are coming from. Trust me when I say this : they understand something you
can never comprehend.

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