It's definitely going to be very interesting to discover what's inside that cover. I think some kind of 'return to Ommadawn' has been the most requested thing here over the years, so I imagine he's got fans' hopes up very high with this one...

Firstly, it's good to see you posting again Korgie, although I guess your always in the background somewhere

I just feel, there has been so much negativity around Mike for to long, lets all get behind him on this one, in 2 weeks we can head the album and let the discussions, both positive and negative start then. We all wanted Mike to return to long instrumental music, and he has done. This is why I love Mike, he never stays to long on one thing, look at how different the genres of his last 3 albums have been!!

Perhaps the very process of making the album has felt like a kind of Hero's Journey for Mike, with many battles and conquests along the way...

Korgscrew seems to be absulutely right! Actually a new, very interesting interview of the latest issue of Classic Rock Magazine was posted yesterday on Mike's Facebook page. Here he explains that the cover was influenced by one episode of a winter landscape in Game of Thrones, and the image is about "being lost in the snow and findig a safe haven".

Just like falk, I really hope that this commercial fantasy approach will not be reflected as directly in the music as in the image itself. Anyway it would be very interesting to have once a topic about the iconograpy of Mike's different album covers, and their relation to the particular albums - if this had not been done yet!

I know that everyone gets passionate about music and artwork, but I hope we can all find ways of talking about it without ripping each other's throats out

In internet everything goes personal so quick

Personally I don't really like the cover that much. Neither I liked the original ones in Incantations, neither I liked the one in Platinum, or Crises, or The Millennium Bell, or Heaven's Open. Stating it is not a problem (and Incantations and Platinum are among my favourites albums no matter the cover), but I don't understand this constant negative feeding about something that, very likely, was caused because of a publisher hiring a not specially talented graphic designer to save some bucks.

I completely agree with you theory about Oldfield giving some clues about the concept and the cover representing a journey because it's how this album feels. It could have been conveyed with a better design? Absolutely. But that question belongs more to some graphic designers forum.

I just looked for "journey" in deviantart, and I got images like those ones:

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion about the album cover, but I would say Mike would have a had a big input into this himself, and he would have his own personal reasons as a person and an artist. It is a journey from Ommadawn and back again for him. When he composed Ommadawn it was a period in his life that was in turmoil, pain, anger and sadness, and this is reflected in parts, but it is also a triumph over such ills that much of it is such a beautiful interwoven tapestry of visions of fantasy in itself, which has taken us all on a journey through the intervening years otherwise we would not be debating this now. Once we have heard 'Return To Ommadawn' within but a couple of weeks time now, I am sure all will become clear to us.

I think we will have to accept that the genius that gave us TB, HR and Ommadawn didn't have a clue what he was doing. I think the more sure Mike became about what he wanted to do (and how do it), the quality of his work dwindled. The first three albums was just Mike trying out ideas. He was surrounded by talented photographers, graphics artists, musicians + a sympathetic producer/engineer. When you think about it, a man in his young twenties can't articulate his own wishes and preferences, can he? He's busy trying to please people around him.I think the quality of the first three albums is an end result of many small, fortunate factors that was out of Mike's control. If he had known exactly what he wanted, perhaps it would have turned out differently.

The impression I have is that Mike is very happy with the (mostly) computer-aided music he's done post-1991. He was free from the pressure of touring and the pressure of making hit singles. He didn't need a band and could do everything his own way.

The development of Mike's music prior to that had very much to do with commercial interests and pressure from people around him. The sudden shift in style from Platinum to Incatations had to with the commercial reality of touring. He wrote music for a smaller group that was commercially viable to tour with. The reliance on singles in the mid 80s had to do with record company politics.I'm afraid the music and the visuals from TBII is what Mike does when it's just up to him. Not by cup of tea at all.

--------------"There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste"Mark E Smith

I think we will have to accept that the genius that gave us TB, HR and Ommadawn didn't have a clue what he was doing. I think the more sure Mike became about what he wanted to do (and how do it), the quality of his work dwindled. The first three albums was just Mike trying out ideas. He was surrounded by talented photographers, graphics artists, musicians + a sympathetic producer/engineer. When you think about it, a man in his young twenties can't articulate his own wishes and preferences, can he? He's busy trying to please people around him.I think the quality of the first three albums is an end result of many small, fortunate factors that was out of Mike's control. If he had known exactly what he wanted, perhaps it would have turned out differently.

The impression I have is that Mike is very happy with the (mostly) computer-aided music he's done post-1991. He was free from the pressure of touring and the pressure of making hit singles. He didn't need a band and could do everything his own way.

The development of Mike's music prior to that had very much to do with commercial interests and pressure from people around him. The sudden shift in style from Platinum to Incatations had to with the commercial reality of touring. He wrote music for a smaller group that was commercially viable to tour with. The reliance on singles in the mid 80s had to do with record company politics.I'm afraid the music and the visuals from TBII is what Mike does when it's just up to him. Not by cup of tea at all.

What are you doing on this site ?

You seem to suggest you haven't rated Mike Oldfield music since 1975 & have a little dig about the pre 1975 stuff only being done to please those around him.

42 years of listening & not enjoying is some form of masochism.

I watched the first Lord of The Rings film, thought it was visually good, but pretty boring & overlong, gave up 1/2 way through the 2nd one, which to me was travel, battle, travel, battle... Then didn't watch the rest, rather than watch them & say they were no good.

Firstly, it's good to see you posting again Korgie, although I guess your always in the background somewhere

It's like Jeremy Bentham's panopticon, you can never be sure if I'm watching or not...mwahahaha!

Quote (tarquincat @ Jan. 09 2017, 15:56)

What are you doing on this site ?

We have people come here for all sorts of reasons - some have been fans since the 70s, some might only have just discovered his work, some fit somewhere else on that spectrum...as long as people are civil and keep their posts relevant, that's fine by us

I didn't personally read Lars's post as suggesting he hasn't liked anything since 1975, but...if that were the case, I guess an album promising to be a 'Return to Ommadawn' would be quite a good reason to take an interest in Mike and his current music, and therefore make return to a forum like this!

I can say that, having been here for 17 years, my relationship with Mike's music has really changed quite a bit since the early days of the forum. I was very much into pulling it apart to learn from how it had been constructed, aspects of playing, recording, arranging and composition. I took all that and started to work with it and now, 17 years down the line, I have all my own experience from doing that (and from exploring - and indeed actually working on - other artists' work), so I see Mike's work through a different lens...and Mike approaches the world from a very different position to the one he was in during the early 70s. It still intrigues me to see and hear what he's getting up to, but I guess it's clear from the fact that I'm not posting loads of stuff here every day that I'm not thinking about Mike and his work as often as I used to...but it's good to see familiar 'faces' and sometimes there's a discussion going on which looks like it'll be interesting to join in with. So here I am

Maybe another answer as to why people keep trying the new work even when they've been disappointed many times is pure hope. One of the recurring questions over the time this forum's been here has been along the lines of "When is Mike going to do another Ommadawn?". Now here it comes...whether the same people who asked questions like that are going to feel it was worth the wait, we'll have to wait and see

When you think about it, a man in his young twenties can't articulate his own wishes and preferences, can he? He's busy trying to please people around him.

I find this really interesting. Was Mike trying to please people around him? Hmm! I think that's a complex one, and likely one where I'd want to do a lot more digging and thinking than I've done so far before coming to any kind of conclusion...

Certainly I think he was balancing the pressure from the record company with his need to process the world around him through his music. He took all that he had and put it into Tubular Bells, then seems to have felt that Hergest Ridge was rather forced out of him at a time when he wasn't ready for it.

Then Ommadawn...hmm...

I got curious enough about the process of how Ommadawn came to be born, the balance of internal versus external input and so on, that I asked Les Penning about it. I find his input interesting because once you're listening for it, Les's recorders are absolutely all over Ommadawn, and the pair of them spent a lot of time together in the years Mike was in Kington. So I came to a question which I think is really relevant to what you've said...how much did Mike have a clear idea in his head of what he wanted? The answer:

"He knew what he wanted, that’s without a doubt. He didn’t always know how to achieve it. But he didn’t always know that he wanted what he wanted, and that’s what I had to supply, to try and get out of him what he did want. And of course the instruments themselves have limitations, but they also can do things which a lot of people don’t think they can do, and...between the two of us, we...well, made it sound like it sounds."

I think I should probably qualify that "between the two of us" remark, because it was clearer in context - he was referring to the parts where he had input, as opposed to claiming that the album was the work of him and Mike alone. But...does that give a bit more of an idea of where he was at, in terms of his own wishes and how they were articulated?

I suppose now, the question is whether that's a situation that's actually changed. Does he now have a more concrete idea of exactly what he wants on his album, or is it still really a case of knowing what he wants to achieve, but still being open as to exactly how the details of that are going to pan out? I found it interesting that he'd been asking on Facebook about mistakes and whether he should keep them in to add character - I personally find that those often fall into that "I'll know it when I hear it" category, in that sometimes I'll have an "I didn't mean to do that, but I actually quite like it" moment. While it's not exactly the same as having the input of another musician, I think those moments can have a similar function - they can sometimes turn out to be things which better fit what we were trying to achieve than the initial idea did.

Sometimes, of course, they just sound horrible and ruin it. That makes Mike's question a bit difficult to answer - the only reply can really be "use your judgement and ask whether it fits the character of what you're aiming for."

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Mike didn't have a clue what he was doing in the early 70s, but it does sometimes feel, from things like that question, and his comments about people not liking Tubular Bells 2003 as much, that he has the sense that people hear something very different in those albums to what he does...that maybe there's a secret to them which he can't quite put his finger on.

Has he worked that one out now? Time (and a listen to the new album) will tell, I suppose

I don't expect 'Return To Ommadawn' to be 'Ommadawn II', but I should imagine he may well follow similar structures and themes from the original. He is using similar or if not the same instruments as he used on the original, so we may also get similar sound textures and flavours. Yet it is the Mike Oldfield of the moment that will have the most influence, what he has managed to summon up from his dream pool of creativity, which might well turn out to be quite a pleasant surprise.

ofcourse people in their twenties can articulute their own wishes and desires. wtf :S

btw, from the official page:

" I think it’s because it’s a genuine piece of music rather than production: hands, fingers, fingernails. It didn’t have a goal; it was not trying to achieve anything nor please anybody. It was spontaneous music making, full of life."

ofcourse people in their twenties can articulute their own wishes and desires. wtf :S

I think it can be difficult for the young mind to separate its own wishes from outside pressures.

I think like this:

I LOVE so much music that was made ca 1968-75 but I realize that a lot of it sound like it does because of what was trendy at the time. I like to imagine that music being made and played by geniuses, but I realize that there was a lot of opportunism involved in the making of that music.

What I'm trying to say is that those early albums were happy accidents. Mike was channeling what he heard around him (playing folk club with his sisters, hanging out with David Bedford) and it ended up being something brilliant, and many factors contributed to that.

20year olds look good and do brilliant (but naive) things intuitively. Later we learn to do more thought out, on purpose. That's when it starts getting difficult! I think Ivor Cutler talked about that sometimes - how grown ups should envy the open mind of the child, because they can only aspire to such creative freedom.

--------------"There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste"Mark E Smith

I think those first 3 albums came from within, maybe the latter albums were pressured from outside.Ofcourse there is outside influences, but that's always the case no matter how old you are :P Usually when you are older, you tend to gravitate to the music you heard in your early years.

I think those first 3 albums came from within, maybe the latter albums were pressured from outside.

I think that's a complex issue, actually. Of course you're right that there are always external factors, but I suppose it would be better to say that every creation is the result of a blend of external and internal factors.

How would we evaluate Hergest Ridge, for instance? I think that the music which is there on the album is likely a very strong reflection of Mike's state of mind, and certainly a reflection of his surroundings at The Beacon. On the flip side, it appears to be an album which never would have existed had Richard Branson not pushed for it - both Mike and Tom Newman have said he wasn't ready to do another album, and Mike has often expressed a dislike for it. With each remix of it, he seems to have tried to correct what he's seen as being its deficiencies - removing things in the 1976 remix which he felt he put there unnecessarily to make it "the experiment in texture [he] always wanted it to be" and approaching it in 2010 with the hope of giving it it "the power of Ommadawn." I think it's fair to say it's always had a fairly solid following amongst fans who don't necessarily expect it to have the power of Ommadawn, which just goes to show how our ideas of what we like in an album versus Mike's ideas of what he wanted (and, indeed, Mike's ideas over time of what he 'always wanted it to be' can be radically different.

I think the whole concept of 'own wishes' can actually be phenomenally complex, they're shaped by all sorts of external factors as well as the internal ones. Maybe some people get better at seeing how the external influences are acting on them, while I think others are actually less likely to question their world view and may accept ideas which have come from cultural conditioning as being just the way the world is...

I think, in a musical context...with experience, I think it becomes easier to achieve 'the sound in your head' in the real world, but at the same time, the sound in your head may become shaped by what you know can be achieved. It's a minefield (Old Minefield? Nononono...) if you ask me.