Eh, we all have to make up our own minds about what consitutes good value for our money. But here's what put me off them:

That's my one and only pair of J&Ms, purchased on sale for $50. And here's how much wear they received to end up in that condition:

That's $50 wasted, in my book. They live in the back of my closet, awaiting donation.

Looks like some terrible quality leather. Are those glued soles?

I've got 3 pairs of J&M Aristocrafts with nice full grain leather and goodyear welted leather soles with stacked heels. They have stood up to wear MUCH better than that pair you've posted. I also got them for an absolute steal.

I've got 3 pairs of J&M Aristocrafts with nice full grain leather and goodyear welted leather soles with stacked heels. They have stood up to wear MUCH better than that pair you've posted. I also got them for an absolute steal.

It looks like mainline J&M is absolute trash.

Yep, glued. Thought I'd wear them as rain shoes -- they looked nice enough at the time -- but now I don't wear them at all. As far as I can recall, they're the worst shoes I've ever bought.

I've never seen a pair of Aristocrafts in a store, I don't think. Wouldn't even know where to look for them.

Yep, glued. Thought I'd wear them as rain shoes -- they looked nice enough at the time -- but now I don't wear them at all. As far as I can recall, they're the worst shoes I've ever bought.

I've never seen a pair of Aristocrafts in a store, I don't think. Wouldn't even know where to look for them.

I found 2 pairs of Brand new Aristocrafts on ebay. The third pair was used but is still in great condition; I use it as my "going out" shoe of choice. I'm not sure if the Aristocraft line is still being produced...

How would I know if the Air Madero is cemented? I think it's their lower-end line, and is the most recent model. Thanks!

It'll tell you in the product description if you haven't caught SF-shoe-fever (first symptom AE, next C&J+, then EG/JL/GG etc, etc). For example, "Tassel loafer benchmade in England in rich hand-burnished leather. Genuine Goodyear welt construction. Fully lined in fine calfskin. Polished leather sole and leather/rubber heel" from http://www.colehaan.com/colehaan/cat...&productGroup=. I've vaguely wondered who makes the English shoes--the Italian collection seem to be all Bolgna construction--but am not motivated enough to find out. I have a pair of CH collection brogues that I use whenever I don't want to risk my precious(es). They're holding up decently, but I'm not really hard on my shoes to begin with.

Both pairs are about a year old and the soles are cracking sort of like how a driveway cracks. It won't be long until water starts splashing through the bottom. The problem is with the Air Nike soles that have poor quality rubber.

Same experience...very comfortable but the durability sucks. You can get more wear out of them by flexing the sole so the crack opens, then fill it with shoe goo. Spread the extra out. Once that drys cover it again and spread it out some more. Seals any leaks and gives you more wear. The sad thing is for what these shoes cost you think they could use a more durable rubber for the sole.

Isn't it almost impossible to discuss the relative merits of Johnston & Murphy and Cole Haan shoes since they are sourced from a variety of different manufacturers at different price points?

Without having owned any, the J&M Aristocraft and Crown Aristocraft impress me as okay shoes--I believe they're still made in the USA--but probably not nearly the value of their A-E counterparts at full retail, much less at the deep discounts at which I invariably buy A-Es.

Some Italian-made J&Ms I bought for my boy before I knew better were ruined in short order when he irreparably scuffed the corrected-grain leather.

I have only owned one pair of Cole-Haans. The lasting is decidedly on the clubby side, but they have been good, sturdy shoes than have given me a decade of hard service and still seem to have plenty of life left in them. I believe that the maker is Democrata of Brazil, and I'm not sure that C-H still imports anything of that sort these days.

I have no experience whatsoever with Kenneth Cole shoes and can't imagine I have missed anything.

I hear a lot of contradictory information regarding J&M; some people think they're a reliable mid-line brand, whereas others state J&M produces cheap, ugly shoes. It's weird how consistently inconsistent the input is. I wonder whether J&M uses drastically different construction for different lines. I own 3 pairs of J&M's myself: 1 pair of crown aristocraft oxfords and 2 pairs of their mid-grade stuff. All 3 pairs were bought in the past 18 months. The oldest pair I own is just a basic tan/light brown split-toe, which J&M apparently discontinued. Even though the quality of the leather isn't great, they have held up remarkably well. There's no wrinkling in the leather, that's for sure. Quite comfortable, too. Definitely worth the $50 I paid for them. I just bought these: http://www.johnstonmurphy.com/produc...1009&pid=54701 Easily the most comfortable business casual shoes I've ever worn (but I'm pretty young). The quality of the leather seems high according to touch, but they have barely been tested in terms of durability. The aristocrafts are not very comfortable. I think the uppers are too high on the foot and touch my big ankles too much. That's my biggest complaint. I receive a lot of compliments on them, though. I probably overpaid for them in retrospect, but I would not call them junk. I have a feeling they'll last me a really long time if I take care of them.

I had good luck with the JM is bought back in 2001-2003. I still have about 3 pairs left that I use casually. The quality of those were much better then the same era CH. Never bought KC's. The biggest problem with them was where they are made. CH switched to making their shoes in India first, and over the last couple years JM has followed suit to keep their price point over the Italian made shoes. Earlier this year I switched to AE. I'm sure the next progression to CJ will follow.

i have the air jackson from ch i never wore. i abought it brand new for $80. i figure to use them at funerals or clubbing or anything else where conditions are perfect for getting my shoes jacked up.

i like cole haan and ecco for something more casual, or in the us "business casual" :P rubber sole/polyurethane sole and relatively cheap. When i'm visiting Taiwan, i am either taking a taxi the subway or most of the time walking. the asphalt + miles of walking rip thru leather sole shoes plus it's humid and hot i rather wear something i'm not afraid of discarding and replacin

got a pair of kc reaction casual sneaker looking shoe for free. i haven't worn it yet, but i might as well get it if it's free. eventually they'll be useful walking my dog or shoveling crap in the yard.

J&M gets a thumbs down from me. I bought a pair of J&M chelsea boots, fortunately at a discount from a going out of business sale, $70. One of the boot strap loops came right off the first time I used it. So I cut the other one off too

Cole Haan at least have never fallen apart on me. Got these for casual wear for $60.

I got a pair of the Aristocraft wingtips (not Crown Aristrocrafts). They were corrected grain and started flaking early so I took them back. I often for the the captoe instead which is calf skin though it took another three pairs before I was satisfied with the quality (glue splashed around the inside, etc.) That problem now solved, the current shoes have held up very well and are very comfortable. I actually prefer them to my AE Drydens as a matter of fit.

If the quality were more consistent (and the shoes not made in Mexico) I might buy again or recommend them but the build quality is just too spotty. Its too bad because I have a pair of OLD (50 years or so) JMs that belonged to my grandfather and only this year did the uppers dry out and rip on me.