A little behind here but was BBQ'ing. I will give a review of the Bison vs. Bats game.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:21 PM

Buffalo spot Romero a 2-0 lead on a Luis Jimenez (Beeg Mon jr) 2 run homer

Billy Hamilton led off with a single. Romero got a soft grounder from Rodriguez. First pitch (ball) and Hamilton took off safely to third. He then scored on a wild pitch. Romero proceeded to walk Perez on 4 pitches. Now caught up. I'll actually be able to watch closely.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:21 PM

Got Soto to hit a grounder, Double play out of the first inning.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:22 PM

ah glad to see there is a second watching. Make it tough to play by play and watch.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:26 PM

Thole hits a loop single that should have been a double. Thole turned at 1st and came to a halt.

admin

05-11-2013, 06:32 PM

Wonder if Romero's been to a psychologist. You'd have to assume yes.
His last minor league start he only walked one. (I think, off the top of my head)
He started his start up here great, then that one inning it was gone, and it carried over to his next start.
Now if he's down there and throwing strikes again, the only thing it could be, is a mental problem.
I mean there were times up here he simply couldn't hit the strike zone.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:32 PM

It's so frustrating for me watching the two Bisons I like best (Gose and Goins) taking so few pitches. Gose it's not all the time, just seems like when he finds a power stroke he changes things up.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:38 PM

Romero started the second with a ball to the leadoff hitter. He then got a grounder to third. Started off Phipps with a curveball for a strike and then gave up a single to CF. Facing Negron, he started off 3 - 1 missing out outiside on most of the pitches

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:38 PM

Gets Negron to fly out to CF on a 3-2 FB that was up.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:42 PM

Burriss hit a single up the middle making it 2 out men on first and third. But Schmidt hits one up the middle that Ricky got a piece of. Knocked it down and made the play at first. Thole is getting all the calls from the dugout, and is setting up outside on every single righty.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:45 PM

Romero doesn't look good, missing all over with his fastball.

yeah I think the only first pitch he's put over for a strike was a curve

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:50 PM

Billy Hamilton had a horrible read on a line drive to centre. End up leaping up to make the play though to end the inning for the Bisons. Negrych walked and scored a dropped double play ball by the 1B Soto.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:51 PM

Gose just participated in a dance off with a mascot.

Abomination

05-11-2013, 06:53 PM

Thole is getting all the calls from the dugout, and is setting up outside on every single righty.

so far it's been his best pitches this inning but he's giving up hits and a run. He gets Hamilton to hit a weak 1-2 hit to the mound which Romero misplays, they call it a hit. He ends up balking him over to 2nd. Rodriguez hits a hard liner to CF and Gose comes up throwing home to get Hamilton...but Thole can't hold on to it.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 06:59 PM

Walks Perez after starting 1-2 Romero is visibly bothered

admin

05-11-2013, 07:05 PM

Actually walked zero I believe in that start.

Maybe he got those guys out because of poor approaches. Minor leaguers want to take their hacks and drive in runs, not work a walk.

Good point. Even still though, you can see he's no where close. After a few batters it should be pretty obvious.

dmrich28

05-11-2013, 07:05 PM

Romero still sucks no matter where he goes so far down 4-3 in the 3rd

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:10 PM

Romero missed by a mile on a 3-2 pitch to walk his third. The bottom of the lineup got aggressive with him and despite one double play, they got back to back singles (again up the middle) to score two more 4-3 Bats. 54 pitches just 28 for strikes. I swear he's under 40% of his fastballs.

dmrich28

05-11-2013, 07:21 PM

6 runs..no control..hitters teeing off

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:21 PM

he starts the 4th with a ball, then a hard hit single at 1-0. Hamilton swings first pitch Flyout. Then first pitch single for Schmidt. He starts 0-1 with a curve up on Perez. Then misses badly on the next pitches and walks Perez for the 3rd time. He hangs a curve to Soto with the bases loaded and he hits it for a single to left. 2 score and they throw Perez out at third. Soto moves to second

Caper

05-11-2013, 07:21 PM

I think this is expected... and a good thing. Romero needs reps... the Jays (or Bisons) don't have to pull him.... let him get shelled and make in game adjustments.

dmrich28

05-11-2013, 07:23 PM

hmm...he could get his reps by throwing well too. ;)

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:23 PM

0-2 and he throw 4 of the next 5 up. Lucky for him they've been fouling them off. 2-2 now

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:24 PM

Throws the 2-2 about 2 feet high and then walks him with a high curve.

dmrich28

05-11-2013, 07:25 PM

5 walks..6 runs he's done

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:25 PM

He's pulled. Probably worse than I saw him all of last year. Even when he's hitting the plate it's up in the zone.

dmrich28

05-11-2013, 07:27 PM

I'm logging off TheHurls account if anyone wants to watch the rest

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:28 PM

Final line for Ricky

3.2 innings.
10 hits
6 ER
5 BB
0 K

76 pitches 41 for strikes. This was to a Bats team that was being pretty aggressive with him.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:29 PM

I'm logging off TheHurls account if anyone wants to watch the rest

You were on my account? No need to log-off MILB doesn't track these things I've had 3 watching the same game before

BlueJayWay

05-11-2013, 07:31 PM

It might be over for Ricky. This is tough.

Caper

05-11-2013, 07:33 PM

Another blistering shot by Negrych.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:34 PM

Negrych with a bouncing single over the mound. Would have probably beat it out if Negron would have fielded it cleanly. 10 game hit streak now. BABIPMACHINE

ErrorcebiaPassedBall

05-11-2013, 07:36 PM

#IBelongInTheMajorLeagues

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:39 PM

Sierra with a 2 run shot. Beeg Mon walks and Reinieke is down.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:40 PM

Sierra with a 2 run shot. Beeg Mon walks

Seriously is someone actually giving out my info or are people talking about the random account I posted?

Nox

05-11-2013, 07:43 PM

Rickey Romero is probably finished.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:45 PM

96

I had this before, it seems to be working recently though

okay I just went back to the around baseball thread...that's not my info. I used to belong to a password sharing sports network. The network got shut down but I copied many of the pages.

HR Laroche 8-6 Bisons. and Isles score lead 2-1.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 07:47 PM

Rickey Romero is probably finished.

Only thing that saving him from a DFA right now is the option he had left. Then again he'll clear waivers as long as he's owed money and pitching like this.

mitchf

05-11-2013, 07:48 PM

I don't even understand this. Is he really this mentality unstable? Are his knees the issue?

RIP 2009-2011 Romero.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 08:01 PM

I'm playing poker now and I found the hockey and Bisons games to be distracting. Not watching anymore

Abomination

05-11-2013, 08:15 PM

I don't even understand this. Is he really this mentality unstable? Are his knees the issue? .

Some of it is clearly mental, however it seemed like his velocity was also down this year. THAT could be a product of the knee problems, and could be causing him to over-compensate with the arm and lose command.

Anemic0ffense

05-11-2013, 08:31 PM

Sounds sorta like Cecil's issue... When Cecil was starting last year, he'd lose command of the FB while over throwing it... Cecil was never THIS BAD at throwing strikes though, so I wouldn't even say Romero has a shot at becoming a BP arm... He mostly likely is finished

dmrich28

05-11-2013, 08:35 PM

sorry..it was the account you posted in this thread I was "borrowing" and I just mentioned I was logging off since someone said they couldn't get on earlier. I just thought by my logging out it would open that space up. That's all.

Caper

05-11-2013, 08:35 PM

Some of it is clearly mental, however it seemed like his velocity was also down this year. THAT could be a product of the knee problems, and could be causing him to over-compensate with the arm and lose command.

Ricky... meet Steve Delabar.

Metallijay

05-11-2013, 09:06 PM

sad when you see a guy who had ace stuff in the matter of 1-2 years career being in the balance, sadly I think RR is done.

NJH

05-11-2013, 09:06 PM

I don't get it either. He started sucking and its been downhill ever since

Really, this is just Ricky reverting to what he has been for most of his career. The period of aberration was the 2 or 3 years he had as a good MLB SP. Right now he's just being the same guy that he was through 5 years or whatever in the minors. He peaked sharply, but it was fleeting.

NJH

05-11-2013, 09:09 PM

You were on my account? No need to log-off MILB doesn't track these things I've had 3 watching the same game before

What is your MiLB.TV info? I always forget it. Email it to me bro

Jimcanuck

05-11-2013, 09:14 PM

RR done you say?

Nah, he'll be back... will find life as a back of rotation guy somewhere

declan_44

05-11-2013, 09:18 PM

I wonder if it is too far fetched to say we'll see Dustin long before we ever is Ricky again.

digiblader

05-11-2013, 09:27 PM

Amen to that--McGowan could be back within weeks, as he's close to a rehab assignment.

Jimcanuck

05-11-2013, 09:31 PM

McGowan has enough talent to save the season

Or at least put bums in the seats... even I will buy a ticket to see him

declan_44

05-11-2013, 09:35 PM

McGowan has enough talent to save the season

Or at least put bums in the seats... even I will buy a ticket to see him

What season? Lansing? Jays need Reyes and more to turn this season around. Dusty would help but he is no where near enough on his own.

GD

05-11-2013, 09:39 PM

Somebody should run a query of pitchers who in their peak exhibit around 7 K/9 and 3.5 BB/9.

Anecdotally it seems like that type is always only able to maintain a short stretch of effectiveness before their walks take off.

Does Fangraphs have any statistical filters like that?

Atothe

05-11-2013, 09:45 PM

Somebody should run a query of pitchers who in their peak exhibit around 7 K/9 and 3.5 BB/9.

Anecdotally it seems like that type is always only able to maintain a short stretch of effectiveness before their walks take off.

that seems like way too much of an improvement to believe it was him just peaking. He made the right necessary changes and then collapsed mentally, mechanically.

TheHurl

05-11-2013, 10:01 PM

What is your MiLB.TV info? I always forget it. Email it to me bro

actually it turns out I found a random active account of someone's check the Jays affiliates on MILB.tv thread. If that is busy (some got a too many logged on message) or the info changes you can get mine again.

NJH

05-11-2013, 10:06 PM

Somebody should run a query of pitchers who in their peak exhibit around 7 K/9 and 3.5 BB/9.

Anecdotally it seems like that type is always only able to maintain a short stretch of effectiveness before their walks take off.

Really, all you'd be asking is "do worse pitchers have shorter / more shallow peaks?". And the answer, in general, would be "of course".

A pitcher with a 7 k/9 and a 3.5 BB/9 = very mediocre, and possibly quite shitty depending on other peripherals like GB%.

In general, a pitcher with a lower walk rate is better. Better pitchers can decline a bit and still be given opportunities, since they're still effective relative to replacement level. Pitchers who walk more hitters, in general, are worse. When they start to decline they lose opportunities fast. Their peaks would be shorter and end more abruptly.

But that doesn't mean that their talent peaks are any more shallow. They'd just cross a threshold of opportunity.

Metallijay

05-11-2013, 10:37 PM

RR done you say?

Nah, he'll be back... will find life as a back of rotation guy somewhere

Cannot see that he is a total disaster.

Arkadium

05-11-2013, 11:07 PM

Ricky needs a sports psychologist. Doesn't anyone pay attention to his media interviews.... the guy is like depressed as heck.

Gotta love how Ricky gave up 15 base runners through 3.2 and the next 3 pitchers only gave up 6 through 5. OUCH.

Arkadium

05-11-2013, 11:08 PM

The other thing that needs to be noted is he's a LOT worse than even last year.

In 2012 he had a bunch of good starts, by my count 8 where he kept the walks under control, got some strikeouts and didn't get lit up. This year every pitch is a battle to get it over the plate, let alone throw a quality strike.

Even the shittest pitchers can have 8 good starts. All this can be luck and opp being aggressive.

Angrioter

05-11-2013, 11:28 PM

Romero is done

admin

05-11-2013, 11:31 PM

Really, this is just Ricky reverting to what he has been for most of his career. The period of aberration was the 2 or 3 years he had as a good MLB SP. Right now he's just being the same guy that he was through 5 years or whatever in the minors. He peaked sharply, but it was fleeting.

Followed him closely in the minors, when I Did the daily updates, he was pretty brutal. I remember they moved him up to AAA for no reason. I had faith he was going to turn it around (as I do pretty much all prospects). I remember he had a good start in AAA and I said I think he's going to turn it around now. After that, it seemed like a switch was turned on. Last year it seems that switched was turned off.

oakville69

05-12-2013, 09:43 AM

The other thing that needs to be noted is he's a LOT worse than even last year.

In 2012 he had a bunch of good starts, by my count 8 where he kept the walks under control, got some strikeouts and didn't get lit up. This year every pitch is a battle to get it over the plate, let alone throw a quality strike.

You're right. I have never seen a pitcher who is supposedly physically OK, fall off a cliff in terms of performance.

I would be happier if the Jays disclosed that he had elbow problems. It's just unbelievable that he gets bombed in Louisville. Are the Jays tying to teach Ricky a lesson?

Leaving Ricky in the game for the three innings is similar to humiliating Patrick Roy when he allowed 8 goals against Detroit.

I wonder if Ricky Romero will request a trade to another team?

declan_44

05-12-2013, 10:19 AM

You're right. I have never seen a pitcher who is supposedly physically OK, fall off a cliff in terms of performance.

I would be happier if the Jays disclosed that he had elbow problems. It's just unbelievable that he gets bombed in Louisville. Are the Jays tying to teach Ricky a lesson?

Leaving Ricky in the game for the three innings is similar to humiliating Patrick Roy when he allowed 8 goals against Detroit.

I wonder if Ricky Romero will request a trade to another team?

We'd be sending money along with him, but that would give us some disposable cash for next year

oakville69

05-12-2013, 11:17 AM

So if you were AA, would you trade Romero at the end of the year if he stays in AAA all year?

On opening Day we had 6 relatively reliable MLB calibre pitchers.

Romero is pitching so poorly, that AA would probably be reluctant to bring him up again.

There must be something else to the Romero "loss of confidence" story that the media is unaware of.

Has this fall off ever happened to the Jays pitching staff before die to non physical issues?

ElNik2013

05-12-2013, 11:23 AM

They made a mistake in bringing him up after one start in A ball, I don't care what they say. I mean they kept him from pitching even in the minors all of April and they deemed him 'ready' after 1 freakin' start in Dunedin? AA really has the media eating out of his hand, they don't question anything he says. Look at all the wrong timelines for the injuries to Lawrie, Bautista and Johnson.

gruber92

05-12-2013, 11:48 AM

Swallow half his salary and get him out of here. There has to be a team in the NL that will take on half his salary and use him as a back of the rotation type.

TheHurl

05-12-2013, 12:34 PM

There is zero harm in letting him pitch it out in AAA. If he can be semi-effective even for a month or two you can easily move him and get someone to eat the majority or all of the salary. Ervin Santana was $13M for one season and KC is paying $12M of it and they gave up a player. Santana's issues were less about control and more about HR's but still there are similarities.

oakville69

05-12-2013, 01:52 PM

They made a mistake in bringing him up after one start in A ball, I don't care what they say. I mean they kept him from pitching even in the minors all of April and they deemed him 'ready' after 1 freakin' start in Dunedin? AA really has the media eating out of his hand, they don't question anything he says. Look at all the wrong timelines for the injuries to Lawrie, Bautista and Johnson.

Good point about the media accepting whatever AA says. I realize that Rogers media owns the Jays, but the handling of Romero is becoming as baffling as what they did with Travis Snider. I recall 2 years ago they said they would let Snider stay up all year then they optioned him back to AAA.

Why didn't Romero pitch in any spring games throughout April? Was he taking it easy?

ElNik2013

05-12-2013, 01:57 PM

Good point about the media accepting whatever AA says. I realize that Rogers media owns the Jays, but the handling of Romero is becoming as baffling as what they did with Travis Snider. I recall 2 years ago they said they would let Snider stay up all year then they optioned him back to AAA.

Why didn't Romero pitch in any spring games throughout April? Was he taking it easy?

Most fans here know RR didn't pitch in the minors in April because he wasn't deemed ready yet. Desperate moves call for desperate measures and that's what they made, a desperate move. Now, that's not to say RR's issues would've been fixed, it's more about how the media defers to whatever AA says without taking him to task. Same with Snider, Rasmus and Lind have gotten quite the long leash whereas Snider didn't. Maybe Snider would've busted anyway, but the last 2-3 years were perfect to settle the issue. Anyway...

oakville69

05-12-2013, 02:30 PM

I agree that it was a desperate move.

I agree that the media seems to do very little tough follow up on the Jays. Hiding Ricky in Dunedin was smart from the Jays perspective because no media outlet would send a reporter to Florida to find out why Ricky wasn't pitching.

The handling of Travis Snider was a travesty, especially when LF was held by Corey Patterson & Fred Lewis. Juan Rivera wasn't great either in LF.

The Jays weren't going to the playoffs in 2010 or 2011 or 2012, so why didn't they just let Snider play when he wasn't hurt? He was a top prospect for the Jays & showed flashes of power. He was also a pretty good defender. Snider deserves his own thread, but I wonder what the Jays are planning to do with Ricky.

My fear is that they will dump him & he will end up being a 4th starter or better in the national League. Jojo Reyes got steady work in the past, so Ricky could as well.

Metallijay

05-12-2013, 02:34 PM

I agree that it was a desperate move.

I agree that the media seems to do very little tough follow up on the Jays. Hiding Ricky in Dunedin was smart from the Jays perspective because no media outlet would send a reporter to Florida to find out why Ricky wasn't pitching.

The handling of Travis Snider was a travesty, especially when LF was held by Corey Patterson & Fred Lewis. Juan Rivera wasn't great either in LF.

The Jays weren't going to the playoffs in 2010 or 2011 or 2012, so why didn't they just let Snider play when he wasn't hurt? He was a top prospect for the Jays & showed flashes of power. He was also a pretty good defender. Snider deserves his own thread, but I wonder what the Jays are planning to do with Ricky.

My fear is that they will dump him & he will end up being a 4th starter or better in the national League. Jojo Reyes got steady work in the past, so Ricky could as well.

The jays have been terrible at developing their prospects. Thus years of losing

oakville69

05-12-2013, 03:13 PM

The jays have been terrible at developing their prospects. Thus years of losing

Well said. Jays inability to develop prospects has been a huge problem. I would set that issue up as a seperete thread.

GD

05-12-2013, 04:10 PM

Juan Rivera wasn't great either in LF.

Juan Rivera was a useless piece of shit.

I would set that issue up as a seperete thread.

... Or... we could not.. because that's a retarded thread idea and it'd just be clutter

Metallijay

05-13-2013, 09:43 AM

Juan Rivera was a useless piece of shit.

... Or... we could not.. because that's a retarded thread idea and it'd just be clutterHow so? The jays inability to develop their farm players is a major baseball topic on a jays forum , how would that a bad thread? it would be a better thread then a large portion that clutter the front page now.

G-Snarls

05-13-2013, 09:51 AM

I think this is expected... and a good thing. Romero needs reps... the Jays (or Bisons) don't have to pull him.... let him get shelled and make in game adjustments.

Yep. I'm just glad he's taking his lumps for the Bisons instead of the Jays

G-Snarls

05-13-2013, 09:54 AM

If Ricky's first 1-2 games had been good I'd have worried they'd start yo yo ing him much to soon again up and down.

oakville69

05-14-2013, 02:01 PM

How so? The jays inability to develop their farm players is a major baseball topic on a jays forum , how would that a bad thread? it would be a better thread then a large portion that clutter the front page now.

Failed Jays prospects would be a good thread. When I started following the Jays in 2008, Snider was hyped like crazy. Cito & Farrell treated him like a leper. Even as a 4th OF bench bat, I would rather have let the Jays keep him.

oakville69

05-14-2013, 02:02 PM

If Ricky's first 1-2 games had been good I'd have worried they'd start yo yo ing him much to soon again up and down.

If Ricky pitches as badly in Buffalo as he did on the road, the Bisons fans may demand he get sent to NH. :))) I wish Ricky the best but I would like to know what is really going with him. Is it possible that he has an undisclosed physical injury?

Iluvbj's

05-15-2013, 01:00 AM

I would not give up on Romero at all. I'd like to see him give a shot to that heavy ball throwing program that Delebar took part in though. He has fallen off a cliff, but so did Lester for about the same amount of time and he is back pitching very well.

I think Ricky can be fixed. His stuff is just too good to give up on. I don't know the stats, but the guy nearly led the league in dp's just two years back with an ERA under 3. He was dominant at times and I simply cannot believe that all that has simply just blown up and diminished. One thing I see here are a lot of people way too quick on the trigger. Eager to rid of a guy who has proven he has the stuff to win in this league. He needs help to find his way back and find his way back he will.

over500

05-15-2013, 01:31 AM

So Romero said he doesn't belong in AA, and I guess he was right, but for the wrong reason. He belongs in a beer league.

Arkadium

05-15-2013, 01:38 AM

So Romero said he doesn't belong in AA, and I guess he was right, but for the wrong reason. He belongs in a beer league.

Well said, the remarks of a very intelligent man has posted here today.

GD

05-15-2013, 07:37 AM

I don't know the stats, but the guy nearly led the league in dp's just two years back with an ERA under 3.

He also had a 4.20 FIP lol.

G-Snarls

05-15-2013, 08:14 AM

My worry with Ricky now is even if he gets mechanically better, and has a bunch if good starts in Buffalo, that he comes back up and just collapses under the pressure of the MLB microscope again. He's in a bad situation now.

G-Snarls

05-15-2013, 08:15 AM

Contrast to Brett Cecil who was in pretty much the same situation. He's toughened up, pitches well under pressure and has become our second best reliever.

I'm just not sure Ricky has the toughness required to bounce back from this career low the way Cecil did.

jaysblue

05-15-2013, 01:18 PM

Romero makes $7.5 million this year, and is owed $15.6 million for 2014 and 2015. I think (hope) AA would move him right now if someone was willing to take his salary. By the time the offseason rolls around, we're probably looking at moving him just to clear some of the money.

Call the Angels? lol.

TheHurl

05-15-2013, 02:04 PM

Local boy, Cal St. Fullerton guy and no one drafts more CSF guys than the Angels. It's not that unreasonable to think they'd take a chance on him.

Caper

05-15-2013, 02:06 PM

The Angels have no pitching... They have no farm system, they should absolutely be calling about RR.

dineke

05-15-2013, 02:46 PM

The curse of Miss America...

Iluvbj's

05-15-2013, 05:14 PM

He also had a 4.20 FIP lol.

So what. That number is easily skewed by a high walk or homerun total, which makes this stat completely irrelevant to me. For example, a pitcher that doesn't walk many and challenges hitters, will most likely give up a high number of homeruns...ala Jake Shields. Does he suck too by this standard? LMFAO.

Or a guy with modearte home runs against, but a normal than higher amount of walks.....that happens to be a groundball pitcher with 60% or more of his outs coming on the ground, will skew that number as well. Fact is that Ricky's WHIP, which is far more important and relelvant, was pretty damn good as were his GIDP numbers as a result of his ability to keep the ball on the ground in crucial situations. That is usually the result of either an excellent change up or a well located sinker. His numbers overall were excellent and they STILL would be if he was able to command his fastball and sinker down in the zone. Since he has lost that, his walk totals have went way up and his ability to throw the DP ball has gone out the window.

IMO, when he regains, or IF he regains command of the ONE pitch, he is right back where he was two years ago, plain and simple. He still has an above average curve and an excellent change that can easily get hitters out. Anyone who knows baseball at all knows that without fastball command, your game is pure junk.

dineke

05-15-2013, 05:23 PM

So what. That number is easily skewed by a high walk or homerun total, which makes this stat completely irrelevant to me. For example, a pitcher that doesn't walk many and challenges hitters, will most likely give up a high number of homeruns...ala Jake Shields. Does he suck too by this standard? LMFAO.

Or a guy with modearte home runs against, but a normal than higher amount of walks.....that happens to be a groundball pitcher with 60% or more of his outs coming on the ground, will skew that number as well. Fact is that Ricky's WHIP, which is far more important and relelvant, was pretty damn good as were his GIDP numbers as a result of his ability to keep the ball on the ground in crucial situations. That is usually the result of either an excellent change up or a well located sinker. His numbers overall were excellent and they STILL would be if he was able to command his fastball and sinker down in the zone. Since he has lost that, his walk totals have went way up and his ability to throw the DP ball has gone out the window.

IMO, when he regains, or IF he regains command of the ONE pitch, he is right back where he was two years ago, plain and simple. He still has an above average curve and an excellent change that can easily get hitters out. Anyone who knows baseball at all knows that without fastball command, your game is pure junk.

Walk rate doesn't affect Hr Rate...

Anyways.. you're right, Ricky was an above average pitcher even though he was lucky too... 3.80 xFIP in 2011... now he's just garbage.

Iluvbj's

05-15-2013, 05:25 PM

Romero's velocity is fine........it's command of the fastball that's broken. He needs to figure this out or he's finished. There's no chance in hell the Jays are going to give up on a guy guaranteed 22 million over the next three years, here's to hoping he figures it out.

LOL, I agree. The funny thing is that I replied to Gord's post before I even read yours and I think we look at it the exact same way. I think ricky needs to be removed from game situations completely and throw side sessions for as long as it takes for him to be able to repeat his delivery. As soon as he's able to start that sinking fastball at the kness and let the movement take over, he will be ready.

I think it is going to take quite a bit of time. If I were his coach right now, I'd sit him down and make him watch endless hours of video of games where he pitched very well. Repetition, over and over again. Everything is habit for us, even as adults. It's almost as if his brain needs to be trained all over again. Video and side session, one right after another. Take video of his side session and make him watch and compare both his delivery and release points. And make him do it over and over and fucking over again until he is able to consistently throw that fastball where he needs it to be thrown the vast majority of the time. Putting him out there right now against even weak competition is ruining his chances and damaging his frail confidence every single time. therapy and massive repetition is the key to this guys comeback. Until he can learn to repeat his delivery all over again, he will not be sucessful at any level of play. But with his ability, I do not give up on him, no way, no how.

Iluvbj's

05-15-2013, 05:26 PM

So, does walk and homerun rate not affect a pitchers FIP? I thought it did.

dineke

05-15-2013, 05:32 PM

So, does walk and homerun rate not affect a pitchers FIP? I thought it did.

Yes it does, but walks has no correlation to hr rate, at least not to the best of my knowledge.

Iluvbj's

05-15-2013, 05:58 PM

Sorry bro, my mistake. I was just looking at his numbers and comparing the correlation to his FIP and they just don't seem relevant RR in the 2011 season. I mean he did allow 3.31 walks per 9IP and only 1 hr per 8IP, while allowing only 176 hits over 225 Ip for the season...with a WHIP of only 1.14? That's a pretty good sample size and those numbers are ace material. A pitcher with a change and sinker like Ricky has can make FIP seem completely irrelevant in this case because there is nothing in those numbers anywhere that would indicate his numbers according to FIP were actually below average. His walks are a tad high sure, but his constant ability to get the DP ground ball completely negated that number.

I honestly believe that if RR gets command of that sinker back, he can be just as, if not even more successful than he was on 2011. His other pitches are well above average. He needs to be taken out of game situations for now IMO, and take thousands of reps learning to repeat the delivery that allowed him to be so successful back then. I know fixing the guys head is a huge obstacle, but I believe that constant bombardment of past video will help him get back to where he was and I just don't think the road to that point is as difficult as some people seem to think. He's an uber competitive guy who just needs his confidence back.

Angrioter

05-16-2013, 01:09 PM

Romero today
3.2IP, 4H, 2ER, 6 Walks and K

Caper

05-16-2013, 01:16 PM

Romero today
3.2IP, 4H, 2ER, 6 Walks and K

Aghhh...

I wonder why Negrych got another day off..... or.........

G-Snarls

05-16-2013, 01:17 PM

Romero today
3.2IP, 4H, 2ER, 6 Walks and K

The walks!

dineke

05-16-2013, 01:18 PM

Romero today
3.2IP, 4H, 2ER, 6 Walks and K

LOL Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee done.

oakville69

05-16-2013, 02:52 PM

The Angels have no pitching... They have no farm system, they should absolutely be calling about RR.

What could the Jays get for Romero from the Angels or anyone else for that matter.? Jays need a 2b/ss prospect.

oakville69

05-16-2013, 02:53 PM

LOL Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee done.

This was a marginal improvement from his last AAA start, but it's still pretty bad.

GD

05-16-2013, 04:10 PM

What could the Jays get for Romero from the Angels or anyone else for that matter.? Jays need a 2b/ss prospect.

Romero for Taylor Lindsay or C.J. Cron please

GD

05-16-2013, 04:27 PM

Romero is getting lit up in AAA. He has no value unless we're eating $15 miilion.

I thought the entire suggestion of trading Romero was based on the assumption we were eating a fair amount of cash.

Arkadium

05-16-2013, 04:32 PM

Romero today
3.2IP, 4H, 2ER, 6 Walks and K

In two starts in AAA, Romero has a WHIP near 4.0...... outstanding!

GD

05-16-2013, 04:41 PM

Usually deals like that don't involve any legit pieces coming the other way. If he is moved, I'd expect it to be like Romero for a 27-year old AAA reliever or something, with the goal of saving a few million $.

Eh, eating some cash wouldn't be the worst thing, really. Getting a good piece for Romero is probably better than saving a few million.

Abomination

05-16-2013, 05:02 PM

Eh, eating some cash wouldn't be the worst thing, really. Getting a good piece for Romero is probably better than saving a few million.

Unless we could get a true blue-chipper for him (unlikely), the cash (7.5M) is probably more valuable for where we are as an organization. With that said, getting Romero right again - assuming that's possible, is worth even more.

Sammy225

05-16-2013, 05:08 PM

Romero for Kendrick lol. I don't know if I want the 2nd base version of JPA or not. LAA need pitching though

GD

05-16-2013, 05:32 PM

Any piece worth a few million just isn't going to be in play for Romero. I mean, how many pieces in our farm are worth a few million $? Now which ones would you trade to acquire Ubaldo Jiminez at little or no financial cost?

Probably only Alford so I see your point. Lindsay isn't much of a prospect, though.

GD

05-16-2013, 05:32 PM

Romero for Kendrick lol. I don't know if I want the 2nd base version of JPA or not. LAA need pitching though

what the

Caper

05-16-2013, 05:59 PM

What could the Jays get for Romero from the Angels or anyone else for that matter.? Jays need a 2b/ss prospect.

None other then the Albert Pujols, heck, they would probably throw in Josh Hamilton.

blackjays21

05-16-2013, 06:17 PM

Huh? Kendrick has put up 8.6 fWAR the last two years...

yea Kendrick has been a beast over the last two years. it would take a lot more to get him then jus romero

we will not got nothing for romero if we traded him.. if the bluejays fix him and he comes back stronger.its worth more to us then trading him for a AAA player and eating his salary

Angrioter

05-16-2013, 07:19 PM

Eh, eating some cash wouldn't be the worst thing, really. Getting a good piece for Romero is probably better than saving a few million.

Trading Romero now is out of the question . They screwed it up calling him up after only one start and then sending him to AAA instead of back to Florida. what they need to do now is send him back to extended ST and start over .