This gets posted about once a month. I don't really like it. It looks hectic. It's incredibly difficult, of course, but it just seems kinda stunty to me.

Of course it's going to look hectic, its a 900 without a double up AND the added difficulty of two different handle passes. Maybe it's just me, I think the handle passes are all the style you need for a spin that difficult. There are plenty more ways to add style to a trick then just grabbing/poking.

As for the OP, I think if the pros would do it off of a double up you could definitely add a grab or poke in there for more style to please the critics.

Of course it's going to look hectic, its a 900 without a double up AND the added difficulty of two different handle passes.

900s off the wake are far from hectic nowadays. Harley even grabs and pokes his. As for the different handle passes, see the whirly dick. All are fast rotations, but Harley's 9s and whirly dicks are very smooth and controlled. This is not, so I don't really like the way it looks. It's an amazing trick, but not my taste.

ok ill chime in. +disclaimer i could never do this+ but i think you guys are giving a little too much credit to the difficulty of the trick. imo he's pulled hard enough to get the entire rotation and advanced himself far enough on the line within the first spin. then he lets of of the handle and catches it over head. he isnt using the handle to spin ole imo. really i think the most difficult thing is spotting and catching the handle.

(TheHebrewHammer) Join Date: Jun 2011 Today, 12:27 PM Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fish View Post
Of course it's going to look hectic, its a 900 without a double up AND the added difficulty of two different handle passes.
900s off the wake are far from hectic nowadays. Harley even grabs and pokes his. As for the different handle passes, see the whirly dick. All are fast rotations, but Harley's 9s and whirly dicks are very smooth and controlled. This is not, so I don't really like the way it looks. It's an amazing trick, but not my taste.

^^^This trick was landed over 4 years ago and it was the fist time it was landed. Was the first 900 ever landed super clean and stylish? Gotta compare apples to apples man.

(TheHebrewHammer) Join Date: Jun 2011 Today, 12:27 PM Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fish View Post
Of course it's going to look hectic, its a 900 without a double up AND the added difficulty of two different handle passes.
900s off the wake are far from hectic nowadays. Harley even grabs and pokes his. As for the different handle passes, see the whirly dick. All are fast rotations, but Harley's 9s and whirly dicks are very smooth and controlled. This is not, so I don't really like the way it looks. It's an amazing trick, but not my taste.

^^^This trick was landed over 4 years ago and it was the fist time it was landed. Was the first 900 ever landed super clean and stylish? Gotta compare apples to apples man.

You would be correct to assume this trick was landed only 4 years ago because of the date on the video showing 2008, but in fact, this was landed back in '04 or '05. At that time, it was a super tech trick. All this was done during the production for the video Downside Up which came out in '06... and I believe it was done behind TURBO'S '03 SAN. So there are numerous aspects you aren't taking into consideration when you compare Harley to Matt. IE boat wake then vs. now, technology in the boards, ect.

It seems like the conversation has moved away from the original point of why havent pros caught onto this? IMO, is it a tech trick? undeniable. Is it a stylish trick? Always up to who you ask but I think most would say no. I think you could put it the category of tricks such as the slurpee. You kinda just go out there and huck it. If you stick it, im sure it feels cool and you might get a laugh from everyone on the boat but not really a go to trick in the arsenal.

Small point here, but Brian you are talking about the changes in tech and wakes from matt to Harley, what about Parks throwin a 10 and then it not being done again for how many years? I understand that tech changes, obviously riding is getting better considering there are several guys throwin 10s now, But it could be done back then. I wonder how many points a 009 would fair in a competition. Its a really techy trick and i think its cool to watch...once. but its not pretty to watch. just like if someone were to pull a 0010. that would be a cluster"fudge" of a move, yes it would be cool, but you wouldn't want to watch that all day. I can't sit there and watch harley go back and forth doing w2w 10s its boring, even though its super difficult.

wow what a ramble, i don't know if any of that made any sense, i still need some more coffee haha.

Small point here, but Brian you are talking about the changes in tech and wakes from matt to Harley, what about Parks throwin a 10 and then it not being done again for how many years? I understand that tech changes, obviously riding is getting better considering there are several guys throwin 10s now, But it could be done back then. I wonder how many points a 009 would fair in a competition. Its a really techy trick and i think its cool to watch...once. but its not pretty to watch. just like if someone were to pull a 0010. that would be a cluster"fudge" of a move, yes it would be cool, but you wouldn't want to watch that all day. I can't sit there and watch harley go back and forth doing w2w 10s its boring, even though its super difficult.

wow what a ramble, i don't know if any of that made any sense, i still need some more coffee haha.

I disagree in the competition aspect. When Froggy was dominating the pro tour (2007-2009?), he wasn't really doing anything incredibly stylish, but he was landing a lot of very technical tricks and doing so consistently. Honestly even though he is one of the top 3 riders, how many people do you know who like Phil Soven more than any other rider? People like personality and style and those aren't Phil's strongpoints.

Style doesn't add up to be very much, or otherwise everybody would be doing multiple backside 180's or huge straight airs each run. Even though this trick may not have the most aesthetic value, pros could benefit from it bc of the point value of the trick in a competition.

Phil is definately stylish. He has several variations of tricks that no one has followed. His grabs were firmly latched on most all of his mobes while the rest of the field was still struggling to land them...
I personally believe that his competitive success has overshadowed his innovation. Some how he fell out of favor with the "Wakeboard Elite" and no matter what new trick he landed or how long he grabbed he could never be a cool kid.
On the other hand, there are several "pros" that can do almost anything and the wakeboard media leapfrog each other for an opportunity to kiss their back-side. There is definately something behind the scene in both cases that I know nothing about.

I really like all styles and there is certainly something to be said for a trick like the 009 that only one guy can land for over half a decade. It is definately a cool trick.

Geez exaggerate much? Not once did I say he had no style. I said then , you know as in not right now, he wasn't doing anything incredibly stylish. To me, his style has always been his tech tricks because nobody could keep up with him for the longest time in that regard.

Geez exaggerate much? Not once did I say he had no style. I said then , you know as in not right now, he wasn't doing anything incredibly stylish. To me, his style has always been his tech tricks because nobody could keep up with him for the longest time in that regard.

But lets try to keep this on topic.

Ya, you didn't. But people do. "No style" has been a catchphrase on forums like this for years. I know it's not my place, but I always feel like I have to defend Phil's style because I think it's wrong that people **** on him for it. He has made a lot of enemies in wakeboarding, for sure, and you might not like his personality, but I will always respect his style and his riding in general.

man wakeworld is funny.. did someone really just describe this as being a trick that would get a laugh in the boat? And someone else said too much credit is being given to the difficulty of this trick?

Its a friggin osmosis 5 to ole 3, ANY rider in the world right now including Harley or Phil would give respect to that trick

Anyway, I wonder how Matt dreamt up that trick, I mean at what point do you think hey osmosis 5 is too easy, yeh Ill add an ole 3 coming down to that!

man wakeworld is funny.. did someone really just describe this as being a trick that would get a laugh in the boat? And someone else said too much credit is being given to the difficulty of this trick?

Its a friggin osmosis 5 to ole 3, ANY rider in the world right now including Harley or Phil would give respect to that trick

Anyway, I wonder how Matt dreamt up that trick, I mean at what point do you think hey osmosis 5 is too easy, yeh Ill add an ole 3 coming down to that!

I've wondered that myself. I'll try to remember to ask him when he comes up to guntersville for the Spring2Summer comp.

Here is some footage I shot of Ryan Anderson. He does the same trick with no osmosis. He had this consistent in competition back in the day. Landed 11 of them the day we shot this.....One of them ended up a sequence in wakeboard mag. Bill Doster was in the boat shooting too.

Here is some footage I shot of Ryan Anderson. He does the same trick with no osmosis. He had this consistent in competition back in the day. Landed 11 of them the day we shot this.....One of them ended up a sequence in wakeboard mag. Bill Doster was in the boat shooting too.

man wakeworld is funny.. did someone really just describe this as being a trick that would get a laugh in the boat? And someone else said too much credit is being given to the difficulty of this trick?

Its a friggin osmosis 5 to ole 3, ANY rider in the world right now including Harley or Phil would give respect to that trick

Anyway, I wonder how Matt dreamt up that trick, I mean at what point do you think hey osmosis 5 is too easy, yeh Ill add an ole 3 coming down to that!

Me either.... the trick is amazing, my guess is that the vast majority of those people who are knocking the trick because it "isn't stylish" are saying that because their bag of tricks consists of really stylish grabs and 180s....nothing else.

There is no doubt that the 009 is a "stunt" type of trick, but stunt tricks are often the building blocks to new innovative stuff. Another trick that blew my mind for its complexity and innovation was Rathy's--Wrap 3, Ole 3, Handle pass 3--BS 1080. I think it had a grab somewhere in there too. Someone post that video.

Nick, I think you are right. I like a big poked out indy BS 180 into the flats as much as the next guy, but I can do those. Now a 009 or Rathy's 1080, I can't even do those in my head.

--That is a bummer about Ryan, but I am glad that he is back on the board and in the scene.