Absolutely. And I don't think that staying open until 3am is the best answer. But certainly, later than 9pm on Friday and Saturday to capitalize on the bar traffic. It's all things to think about and test. I KNOW, without any doubt, for at least a year or two, I will be LIVING there, like it or not. In that time, I need to figure out what's profitable, what's not, and if it is profitable, is it profitable enough to expand staffing and headaches.

Another issue, they are totally closed Monday. I totally get an owner operator with just a few part time staff will quickly burn out working 7 days a week. On the flip side, if a regular customer wants pizza on Monday, but has to call a competitor to get it, are you risking a regular customer?

Not sure it needs to be 3am but...... could be midnight real easily or later. Back to my comment about life changing.
I get the same comments where I am now... "you're missing the bar crowd" I'm here enough... I'll close first.
If your model works w/o that element, fine. If that's an essential part.... better to know it now.

Agreed. I am getting what records they have, as well as all invoices they have agreed to provide from their vendors to try to do some "backwards math." It comes down to how much cash isn't run through the books, and figuring out the TRUTH on that, well...

A couple of thoughts: 1) You mention a lease at "5 plus 5 year option" ... does that mean that there are 5 years remaining on the original lease, with 5 more years as an option? Paying a premium for the business when there is a below market lease in place (that is also fixed for many years) is something that should be factored into your decision. 2) You've indicated that there may be some price flexibility ... you need to collect the thoughts of Think Tank commenters here, relative to a lower realistic price, and lay those negotiating points on the table, but with flexibility also on your side of the table to account for the beneficial lease terms, 3) The seller needs to understand that his "claims", that he and his wife take $90K yearly from the business, can't be equaled by you, because you will have to pay someone to replace his wife ... essentially, you will replace him, but you can't replace both of them to pocket the full $90 claimed if part of that amout must be paid to a new employee to replace his wife. 4) In negotiating a price, don't bring up your thoughts on extending hours, marketing, etc. ... that has nothing whatever to do with the current value of what it is that he's selling. 5) Accept Uncle Nick's offer to share his "profit analysis tool" ... it will provide a sound basis for a realistic purchase offer.

As an aside, I agree with your personal thought process relative to "taking the plunge", and I like your vision relative to growing the business,but I also don't want you to "leave anything on the table, when it comes to the purchase price. It sounds like you've embarked on getting as much input from others as possible. Good luck, and keep us informed.

To be kind I will call this highly improbable. I could see the two of them working full time and taking 50K out (plus eating a ton of pizza) but that is all.

I would start by asking for his 2017 federal tax return. Look at profit, look at any W2 wages he or his wife took. Add back anything like personal cell phone bill paid through the business. Add back the cost of replacing one or the other of them (least expensive) On an income based multiple this business is worth at best 1.5X that result. Considering that replacing one of them has to cost at least 30K that would give you an indicated value of 30K.

Bottom line is that 200K stores do not make money and they are not worth 100K. Listen to the other comments above. If the equipment is decent and the lease attractive I could see perhaps as much as 40K for the equipment in place but even then only if you think you can double the sales... and why would you believe you can do that if they have been hands on full time and only got to 200K?

Sorry to pour cold water on this idea, but you can find delcos for sale doing more than double that volume that really do earn 90K for that price. No way a store doing 200K earns that much for a single owner working unless it is a tiny slice operation that rocks with just a couple of people and has sub25% COGS and 5% occupancy expense.

Last edited: May 5, 2018

Quality, Price and Service: Pick any two.

I owned two pizza stores for 10 years and one for 19. That chapter is closed but I am happy to help if anyone has questions. The best way to find me is through my business brokerage and valuation contact info: http://www.Rockiesbroker.com

You are definitely just paying for a build-out. There is no way they are making $90k based on the numbers you provided. To properly value the profits, you need to account for a paid staff -- not owners living there. Revisit the lease.

Closing at 9:00 and 10:00 is very common. Staying open past that invites many other issues. I'm not sure I would count on those after hours sales in evaluating the potential of the site. Plus jumping into this business is going to be a big time investment. Throwing in the extra hours at the outset will put a lot of extra stress on you.

Unless I missed it, you didn't mention how long they've been in business. Are sales low because they just opened last year? Are sales low because its a poor product? poor service? both?? Put marketing aside and figure what you are going to do operationally to improve the business. If the food is fantastic, quality through the roof, service exceptional and the place is spotless what is wrong? What is their selling angle? Are they a discount place? Quality and portion? Sounds like its in a good area so maybe their product is not up to par for the neighborhood.

Good reviews, but not many. That says something in itself.

Go through all their inventory and figure where its coming from. Is it all low end Smart & Final/Rest Depo stuff? What is fresh, canned and pre-made?

A good POS system is a must and its an expensive purchase. Do they have one?

How visible is the location? Good signage?

Sales are from Take-out, deliveries and dine-in. There are 2 out of 3 revenue streams to develop here. Not a deal breaker, but you will always have that limitation unless there is more space available in the future?

Just some more thoughts I'm throwing out there. You are basically starting from scratch with this purchase and need to plan accordingly. How much business will you potentially loose from your changes and how much will you potentially gain?

Closing at 9:00 and 10:00 is very common. Staying open past that invites many other issues. I'm not sure I would count on those after hours sales in evaluating the potential of the site.

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PP is dead right on this issue and if anything understates it. Potential sales, not yet achieved are NOT part of the valuation model. If the seller wants value for that potential they should take the restaurant off the market, start staying open later and put it back up when they can include those results in the picture.

Bottom line if YOU change things and they succeed YOU get paid for that not the seller.

Quality, Price and Service: Pick any two.

I owned two pizza stores for 10 years and one for 19. That chapter is closed but I am happy to help if anyone has questions. The best way to find me is through my business brokerage and valuation contact info: http://www.Rockiesbroker.com

That asking price is off the chain. I bought a delco 3 and a half months ago that was doing $5,300 week, for $45k.

The highlights on equipment are a double deck Marsal and Sons oven, an 8x8 walk-in, dough mixer, steam table, slicer, sub/salad station/cooler, 2 pizza prep coolers, two upright reach ins, an upright and a chest freezer, and a three terminal Dinerware POS.

I run 30.5 COGS, 30.9 labor including all payroll taxes and workers comp. Rent and utilities come in at $3,400/month, credit card processing about $500/month. Throw in another $500/month for miscellaneous like insurance, maintenance/repair, accounting and whatnot.

I work about 63 out of the 68 hours per week the store is open and will net about $65k my first year. Sales are up about $500/week from previous owner. That $45k paid is for a store that will do $300k for the year with a rough $65k owner benefit

No way that guy is legitimately making $90k on a little over $200k in sales.

Just chiming in on the bar scene. We have 5 bars located literally right next door to us. This is where the whole town congregates after hours including all the marines from camp Pendleton as there is nothing else to do in our town. We close at 11 on the weekends and we don't get much action from the bars it's too early. There is a Mexican restaurant down the street from us that is 24 hours and from what I hear they deal with all the drunks and their fights. They even have an Instagram page dedicated to them called adolfos at night it's a bunch of videos of drunk people getting into fights. So long story short unless you stay open until the bars close you won't see business. And then there are the drunks to deal with.

That asking price is off the chain. I bought a delco 3 and a half months ago that was doing $5,300 week, for $45k.

The highlights on equipment are a double deck Marsal and Sons oven, an 8x8 walk-in, dough mixer, steam table, slicer, sub/salad station/cooler, 2 pizza prep coolers, two upright reach ins, an upright and a chest freezer, and a three terminal Dinerware POS.

I run 30.5 COGS, 30.9 labor including all payroll taxes and workers comp. Rent and utilities come in at $3,400/month, credit card processing about $500/month. Throw in another $500/month for miscellaneous like insurance, maintenance/repair, accounting and whatnot.

I work about 63 out of the 68 hours per week the store is open and will net about $65k my first year. Sales are up about $500/week from previous owner. That $45k paid is for a store that will do $300k for the year with a rough $65k owner benefit

No way that guy is legitimately making $90k on a little over $200k in sales.

Background on myself: After graduating high school 18 years ago, I (successfully) managed two franchise pizza stores (carryout / delivery), as well as one independent over an 8 year period. I LOVED the business, but needed better money and benefits when I met my GF, now wife, and moved on to spend the last 10 years in print production management. Over the past 10 years, we have gained a lot of stability in our lives, eliminated ALL debt, and built up decent savings. While I enjoy my current job, I don't LOVE it, and it's really just going through the motions.

I have recently been in talks with an owner and his broker that are selling a small carry out / delivery shop, with a small 10 seat inside area. Vast majority of sales are form carry out and delivery. Central area on a main street with GREAT traffic counts. Neighboring area ranges from middle class, to very affluent.

Seller claimed numbers which will be verified (as much as possible):
$209k gross sales for 2017
COG running about 32% of sales. If we assume 35% - this equates to roughtly $73k
Rent and utilities is running 15% of sales. Round up to 20% to be conservative and you have about $42k
3 PT employess (cook and two drivers)
Husband and wife owner operators - husband is VERY hands on.

VERY limited current hours. Closed Monday, only open until 9pm during the week, Bar next door is busy, serves NO food, is begging current owner to stay open later on weekends (Bar open until 3am - pizza shop closes at 10pm)

Nearby community college campus and a large 50k plus resident retirement community.

No or very minimal marketing.

Bakers Pride ovens, Hobart mixer, clean shop, LOW rent.

Wife will keep fulltime job initially for benefits, so we basically need to break even while we build a brand. I currently work a 70 hour a week full time job and am totally comfortable with "Living" the business for several years to get it positioned correctly.

Seller is asking $119k.

Going to look at this later today. Owner is willing to let me show up several days "unannounced" to shadow him and watch the business in action.

Anything I should look out for, pay special attention to, or immediate concerns?

Thanks for any advice!

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Just for comparison.
I just listed my DELCO for $250,000, last year net sales were $700.000 with $8500 direct operating cost in South Florida.
Sounds like a lot of money to pay for a job doing only 4K a week.