The late conservative sociologist and evangelical Christian, James Q. Wilson, made an interesting observation on the manner in which Blacks, Jews, and Evangelicals relate to one another. Here is his fascinating 2008 article: http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_evangelicals.html

Here is a summary of his article. White Evangelical Christians are the strongest supporters of Israel in America, and their support for Israel comes from their religious beliefs that Israel is a fulfillment of scripture. But most American Jews have never been great fans of evangelicals, despite great efforts on the part of evangelicals to reach out to Jews.

Jews are the one white ethnic group, that has the strongest record of supporting civil rights for blacks. Jews have a strong record of supporting affirmative action for blacks, despite the fact that affirmative action harms Jews. Despite this, ADL studies have shown that blacks have the highest levels of anti-semitism of any group, with the exception of Muslims. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have made anti-semitic remarks, but this has not harmed their careers. In fact, the anti-semitism of Sharpton and Jackson has made them national celebrities, and has led to them being celebrated as national figures.

Compare the treatment that Al Sharpton gets, hosting his own show on MSNBC, with the treatment that Pat Buchanan has received. Sharpton is much worse than Buchanan, with regard to anti-semitism. Sharpton helped incite the Crown Heights riots in 1991, which killed a Jewish Student called Yankel Rosenbaum. Then there is a long list of black anti-semites who are loved by blacks, such as Louis Farrakhan, Leonard Jeffries, Amiri Baraka, Andrew Young, Khalid Muhammad, Steve Cokely, Tony Martin, David Dinkins, Malcolm X, Cynthia McKinney, Alton Maddox, etc.

The question is - why do most Jews dislike evangelicals who love them, but are instead pre-occupied with reaching out to blacks who hate them? Barack Obama's hostile policies towards Israel have not turned most American Jews against him. Why?

Jews in America are of the far left, great in power and influence, but small in raw numbers, blacks are their voting and street muscle, blacks vote for their political agendas but resent them and their hold over them, nonetheless.

Evangelicals are of the right and are the most powerful force of conservatism in America and Western Civilization.

Evangelicals are all-important for Israel but the American Jewish left naturally hates them anyway because it is a right/left war in America, it is about our politics, our nation, not Israel to American Jews.

3
posted on 06/28/2012 10:29:35 AM PDT
by ansel12
(Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)

I think the sympathy factor regarding slavery is a factor. We see ourselves as emancipated slaves. A large part of the founding of our religion is based on that. That would be the main reason for supporting blacks.

As for a distaste for evangelicals... well, the evangelicals tend to try to convert our kids. That’s a big no-no. It’s spoken of as a great tragedy when a young Jewish person leaves the tribe. The whole Messianic Jew movement tends to make most C’s and O’s hiss. (Along with the Reform movement... but that’s a different subject.)

Evangelicals support Israel and Jews NOW, but (not too long ago) that wasn’t always the story. Christians have labeled us “Christ killers” for a long time. Many still do. It’s sometimes hard to differentiate between the Christians who truly want to support us and Israel, the ones who say that they support us in order to worm their way in and convert us, and the ones who want our nation wiped off the map.

We have a long memory.

4
posted on 06/28/2012 10:36:05 AM PDT
by Marie
(Our only hope is in electing a very conservative congress.)

Most Jews are liberals who think that evangelicals are all ignorant. In part this hinges on the issue of evolution. Jews think that inherit the Wind is historically accurate. Wont get into the famous confrontation between Darrow and Bryan; however, with regard to the cause of John Scopes, I must say that Scopes is nothing like the one that Dick York played. My mother was a good friend of Mrs. Scopes. When I was in In high school she showed me a Christmas card we got from her. In short, Scopes was an unemployed geologist who was promised a lot if he became party to the suit. Because the case was lost, and Darrow fell out with his clients over appeal tactics, Scopes never got the windfall he expected and felt he had been double crossed. Ended up working in the oil field , He had expected to become a national celebrity. Played for a patsy.

So what has this to do with Jews in particular? Jews are urban folks and when they end up in outbackplaces like Mississipi, they are outsiders, as much as any Jewish peddler in old Poland. They dont get Christian fundamentalism any more than the average evangelical get the liberal Jewish point of view.

The historian Barbara Tuchman pointed out that modern zionism owes its impetus to English evangelicals and Jewish banks like the Rothschild The zionists themselves were socialists and so didnt get much help from Orthodox Jews, who waited for the Messiah to restore Israel. The Jewish state, of course, was made possible by the Balfour Declaration, which promised the Zionists a Jewish homeland. Then, later, pro-Arab British administrators did what they could to prevent Jewish immigration, even after Hitler began his persecution of Jews.

As in, I was in a supermarket yesterday and was cornered and handed bible versus by some old lady. Worst was on a plane crossing the Atlantic ocean.

I'm a Christian myself, but I think that kind of behavior of certain Christians is very annoying. It's narcissism disguised as caring and extremely ineffective. I don't know a single person in my church who converted to Christianity because someone quoted them the perfect verse in a supermarket or an airplane.

“I think the sympathy factor regarding slavery is a factor. We see ourselves as emancipated slaves. A large part of the founding of our religion is based on that. That would be the main reason for supporting blacks.”

I think this is true.

“As for a distaste for evangelicals... well, the evangelicals tend to try to convert our kids. Thats a big no-no. Its spoken of as a great tragedy when a young Jewish person leaves the tribe. The whole Messianic Jew movement tends to make most Cs and Os hiss. (Along with the Reform movement... but thats a different subject.)”

Again, I think that is annoying, but no big deal. They are sincere. HaShem values sincerity above almost everything else.

“Messianic Jew movement”

As long as they are gentiles pretending to be Jews, what’s the harm? In fact, I think that is how several large groups of sincere Jewish converts got started.

“Evangelicals support Israel and Jews NOW, but (not too long ago) that wasnt always the story.”

This is a concern. I think of Martin Luther, who started off very philo-semitic, but when his attempts to convert Jewish people failed, he turned into probably the most dangerous anti-semite outside of Pharoah, Haman, and Hitler -— writing “Of Jews and Their Lies” which was literally the 10-point plan for the Shoa, down to the concentration camps.

13
posted on 06/28/2012 12:01:03 PM PDT
by Jewbacca
(The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)

You are confusing Evangelicals with Catholics, Evangelicals are the Israel supporting, pro-life, anti-homosexual agenda, right wingers of modern AMERICAN history and politics, Catholics are the democrat voting religion of the old days and dark European history.

It seems chilling for you to express such intense 80% liberal voting tribal feelings against Christians anyway, that makes it sound like you are surrounded by enemies in America, whereas as a political conservative you should prefer your fellow conservatives.

14
posted on 06/28/2012 12:51:29 PM PDT
by ansel12
(Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)

Luther was a notorious anti-semite. The German Christians who tried to reconcile Nazism with Christianity were Protestants. The country even after the annexation of Austria was two-thirds Protestant. Both Catholics and Protestants were complicit in the Holocaust, but enough of this Black Legend Stuff.

Luther was a notorious anti-semite. The German Christians who tried to reconcile Nazism with Christianity were Protestants. The country even after the annexation of Austria was two-thirds Protestant. Both Catholics and Protestants were complicit in the Holocaust, but enough of this Black Legend Stuff.

None of that has anything to do with America and Americans, that is some old European stuff, Americans never thought much of those people and all their brutality and rivalries and just overall weirdness.

18
posted on 06/28/2012 1:24:42 PM PDT
by ansel12
(Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)

Of course it does. Anti-Catholicism has been a continuing theme in American politics. During its heyday, the KKK was far more militant against Catholics and Jews than against blacks. Thats when Oregon tried to shut down Catholic schools in the state and force all children to attend public schools. And of course, you have never heard of the Blaine Amendment.

You are confusing Evangelicals with Catholics, Evangelicals are the Israel supporting, pro-life, anti-homosexual agenda, right wingers of modern AMERICAN history and politics, Catholics are the democrat voting religion of the old days and dark European history.

Speaking as an Israel-supporting right-wing Catholic, I take issue with that blanket statement.

21
posted on 06/28/2012 2:58:00 PM PDT
by PapaBear3625
(If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)

I think of Martin Luther, who started off very philo-semitic, but when his attempts to convert Jewish people failed, he turned into probably the most dangerous anti-semite outside of Pharoah, Haman, and Hitler

Thanks for reminding everyone of that, Luther's early history with Jews is usually ignored. It's a factor in Jewish concern (I don't contend most know Luther's history either) about "outreach", "outreach" generally not being about support for Israel, which is heartfelt amongst most Evangelicans, but which relates to evangelization.

23
posted on 06/28/2012 3:34:15 PM PDT
by SJackson
(blow in a dogs face, he gets mad at you, take him on a car ride; he sticks his head out the window)

Wow Jewbacca....Christians just seem to ooze out of the cracks everywhere just to introduce little ol’ you to Jesus...you must quite important to have Evangelicals INC. monitoring you on their radar machine...hunh? :}

BTW, you might want to read Wilson's actual article which has nothing to do with "outreach", rather Evangelical support for Israel. Which is a fact, though you have to separate some Evangelicals, Jimmah Carter comes to mind. As a Jew, I can figure out that some Christians are OK with Jews, and support Israel, and some don't. It's not my job to sort out Christians.

Am I mistaken, or are Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson Christians? Not ordained, but accepted as ministers. Now I have to look for their denomination. Won't look for Jews for Jesus' denomination, might just be Evangelical. Much too confusing. I'll stick with the Christians who support Israel because of their sense of right and wrong and skip the outreach.

28
posted on 06/28/2012 4:13:48 PM PDT
by SJackson
(blow in a dogs face, he gets mad at you, take him on a car ride; he sticks his head out the window)

I was teasing...hence the emoticon at the end of my posting.{I was smiling when I said what I said} I meant you no harm. Besides, and I do mean this one seriously, one learns never to be too “pushy” with a prickly cactus!

Christianity was made for the Jews first and then the Gentiles. And the Jews, at that time, did ask for Barabas to be released and Christ be killed. It was a fulfillment of prophecy and not anything that any modern Christian would hold against Jewish people.

Jesus was/is a Jew. He is no threat to a Jew's Jewishness, nor his tribal identity. Jesus is of the tribe of Judah and completely identified with His tribe as the Lion out of Judah. Jews are worrying about something that they don't have to. A young person who acknowledges Jesus as The Messiah is actually acknowledging their Jewishness more than anything else that they can do. Jews may not understand that yet, but Jews will.

I encourage Jews to read the old writings for themselves, without prejudice. They will find surprising things in them.

33
posted on 06/28/2012 7:42:15 PM PDT
by Bellflower
(The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)

Jews in America are of the far left, great in power and influence, but small in raw numbers, blacks are their voting and street muscle, blacks vote for their political agendas but resent them and their hold over them, nonetheless.

Absolute nonsense! There are plenty of Jews in America who are conservative politically and staunchly oppose the racist, anti-American, anti-Western civilization and antisemitic agenda promoted by the Sharptons, Jacksons, and Jeremiah Wrights and their pals in the black community.

Plus, contrary to your stereotype image, the large majority of American Jews are not "great in power and influence."

The question is - why do most Jews dislike evangelicals who love them, but are instead pre-occupied with reaching out to blacks who hate them?

It's because many Jews are anti-White European, and feel safer in a Balkanized society. They are doing the same thing now with groups like La Raza. Unfortunately, they are finding that Blacks make poor Shabbos Goys.

35
posted on 06/28/2012 7:56:52 PM PDT
by Hacksaw
(If I had a son, he'd look like George Zimmerman.)

I was answering the question as to why Jews have a hard time with Evangelicals. I don’t hold anyone guilty of the crimes of their people. I don’t judge the individual as a group. I do have a problem with the relentless attempts to convert Jews by the evangelicals, but we deal with it as politely as possible. (Conversion is offensive to us... period.)

I’ve never voted for a “D” in my life and never will.

I’d sooner vote for Ron Paul.

But part of my insight came from my own attempts to understand why Jewish people insist on slitting their own throats. *I* didn’t get it. So I started paying more attention and asking questions at my shul. I looked up the opposition’s arguments online. It’s frustrating how many tow the party line. How many refuse to see that they’re looking at this the wrong way.

For a time, I was a Jewish member of a Baptist church. How did that work? They felt that I was exactly where I was supposed to be (according to their interpretation of scripture) and I was treated very well. They were just a lovely, wonderful group of people who respected me and my beliefs. We focused on the areas where we agreed and had respectful discussions (with the intent to truly understand the other party) about the areas where we diverged.

So please don’t think that what I wrote was a reflection of my own beliefs. I was trying to shed light on the mind of the liberal Jew.

36
posted on 06/28/2012 8:14:10 PM PDT
by Marie
(Our only hope is in electing a very conservative congress.)

There is a sea change occuring in NYC thanks to the "Russian Jews" and the dramatic increase in Orthodox. Almost 2/3 of Jewish children in NYC are now Orthodox. http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/new-york-news/sweeping-changes-jewry-seen-ny-population-survey The most Jewish congressional district in the nation elected a pro-gun, pro-life, pro-immigration restriction (legal and illegal) Republican Catholic last year. Within the same CD-9, NY State Senate District 27 just elected a very conservative Russian Jew. In both cases the Democrat candidate was Jewish. While both of these district have been ripped apart due to redistricting, the demographic changes of inevitable.

Cute but silly, there are very few conservative Jews, only about 20% of them even vote republican, and far fewer are conservatives, I shouldn’t have to be explaining that to a freerepublic conservative.

The cutest of all was to pretend that I said that “the large majority of American Jews” as individuals were great in power and influence, I didn’t, but Jews as a whole in America are.

38
posted on 06/28/2012 8:25:30 PM PDT
by ansel12
(Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)

Sounds like an overly broad statement. I'm sure that though some of that exists, reasonable Jews, such as those of us here on FR, have nothing against evangelicals in general. We respect all other faith traditions and individuals of all faiths, except those who expressly seek to harm us and our tradition (e.g., Islamists).

Scopes never got the windfall he expected and felt he had been double crossed. Ended up working in the oil field. He had expected to become a national celebrity.

He did in fact become a national celebrity. There haven't been too many folks whose name appears in just about every American history textbook, and Scopes is in just about all of them, at least he used to be.

Jews are urban folks and when they end up in outbackplaces like Mississippi, they are outsiders, as much as any Jewish peddler in old Poland.

Again, you make too broad of a statement, one not all that historically accurate. Some Jews came from Europe to settle in "outback" rural and small town areas in the US and assimilated and prospered, which had to require some understanding and interaction with the predominant Christian population. (I don't know how numerous evangelical Christians would have been in these areas, though.) Today, there are 100+ villages, towns, and small cities in the US named for prominent Jewish settlers, although most of these have no current Jewish inhabitants.

Luther lived some 400 years before Hitler—and until the Nazis dug up & reprinted the obscure pamphlets of Luther’s anti-Jewish rants, his ideas on this were nearly forgotten...

Even in Luther’s own day, his wife, and other close followers were embarrassed by the cranky old-man’s rants against Jews. Luther did VERY similar violent rants against the Roman Catholics...and even of other Protestants (of the radical stripe...).

Lutheran Germany BEFORE the Nazis was quite a tolerant place for Jews...at least compared to the rest of Europe. This is one reason there were so many German Jews by the time of the 1930s, as they felt in educated Germany they had nothing to fear.

The Nazis were fundamentally racist eugenicists...seeking to improve evolution (as they saw it) who didn’t care about religion (except racism as a religion, and the worship of the Fuhrer)...whereas Luther’s case was purely religious—holding to the common-of-the-day (16th Century) view of religious tolerance (that is NONE!).

To blame the acts of fundamentally atheistic/agnostic racist eugenicists—who used the Christian religion (even while not being actually Christian themselves) on Luther...is a lot like blaming modern Democrats’ liberal wackiness, on Thomas Jefferson... There’s simply too much time between them to draw any direct connection.

Was Luther anti-Semetic? YES very much so, like MOST of the leaders (religious or non) of Europe in his day. The popes of that day were equally antagonistic to the Jews (kicked them out of Rome, for example), as was the Spanish monarchy (expulsion of all Jews from Spain in 1492), the English monarchy, the French, etc. etc.

Germany by the way of the 1930s was 50% Roman Catholic, not 2/3 Protestant. Today—while a majority are non-religious—still, it has about a 50/50 cultural divide between Roman Catholic areas and Protestant areas. Austria of course was, and is (culturally), ALL Roman Catholic. Hence Germany and Austria combined in 1938 were definitely majority Roman Catholic...as of course was (publicly) Hitler.

Two three areas of Bismarcks empire were Catholic: Bavaria, the Rheinland, and Silesia—the latter being Polish. One can guess the proportion of Cathollcs by looking at the strength of the Center (between the liberals and the socialists) Party. Even after the Anschluss, the Cathollc population of the Third Reich is considerably less than 50%. Lots of Jews in the rump state of Austria.

Of course non of that has anything to do with the greatest nation ever formed, the United States.

Some of the America haters try to smear America’s founding and existence with their old European baggage and rivalries it was bound to happen once we started letting in the 1800s immigrants with their divided loyalties.

44
posted on 06/28/2012 10:30:00 PM PDT
by ansel12
(Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)

Hell....my Gallic ancestors were enslaved in closer history timeline than Jews were

That is preposterous...

You can claim the Holocaust rightfully for victimhood ....it was horrible and made Jews a primary target....and that has granted Jewish progressives and their attacks on traditional America since the 60s a lot of cover with folks fearing criticizing them and get tagged Nazi

Problem as i see it is Jewish exclusiveness and anti pluralism

Which of course Jews view as their strengths...

God will settle this one day....this conflict is not by accident however grateful traditionalists like myself may be for those Jews who reject progressivism

(except racism as a religion, and the worship of the Fuhrer)...whereas Luthers case was purely religiousholding to the common-of-the-day (16th Century) view of religious tolerance (that is NONE!).

Luther largely opposed those who held unto beliefs that were opposed to Scripture as he understood Scripture. He believed that beliefs, whether Jewish, Catholic, or Protestant, that were contrary to the knowledge of salvation held in Sacred Scripture would (and do) damn people's souls to eternal hell, so he hated them immensely.

48
posted on 06/29/2012 3:23:31 AM PDT
by Bellflower
(The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)

Scopes was forgotten within ten years after the trial. The book he wrote was not a success. His celebrity was that of a flash in the pan.

Again, kids who studied American history in high school or college most likely encountered his name and discussed the evolution issue and the trial with Bryan and Darrow as the chief protagonists. At least that was the case when I was in high school.

I wouldn't doubt that the film "Inherit the Wind" contains some historical inaccuracies. For some reason, they changed the names of Scopes, Bryan, Darrow, and H. L. Mencken in that film, giving them all pseudonyms.

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