(generated from captions) Tonight on Catalyst, should babies sleep alone? Recalcitrant teenagers... for staying up late? Do they have a good excuse And sleeping with pain... Breaking the vicious cycle. to a special edition of Catalyst. Hello and welcome This week, it's all about sleep. Why do so few of us get enough sleep? And what are the risks if we don't? to a sleep expert to get the answers. Later in the program, I'll be talking But first... the frontrunners New mothers are definitely with sleep deprivation. when it comes to those so much sleep with their babies? But should they be sharing (Women chatting) when your baby just won't sleep? What should you do Just get her up, play with her in about 20 minutes. and then maybe try again You just read a few books, talk to some people all that information together. and then you just mosh who has a different opinion You'd always get a different nurse and how you should be doing it. on what the baby should be doing us and that fixes it every time. Last resort, he jumps into bed with (Babies gurgle, women chat) about parenting the little ones. There are so many mixed messages about babies and sleep? But what do we really know We've created, ideologically, expectations and beliefs a set of totally unrealistic about how babies sleep. that babies should be better off It really emerged out of ideology from their parents, sleeping separate and autonomously competent and individualists because we want to make them as soon in life as is possible. and independent should be co-sleeping. Dr McKenna says babies and mothers in which a mother and baby It refers to any situation of one another, are within sensory range and respond to the sensory cues such that each can detect and signals of the other. sleeping in the bed with the parents, This means the baby can either be or simply within arm's reach. are better off in the long-term. Research shows that these babies that are able to be alone, Children that are more independent, those children are the ones of affirmation and contact that have had the most amount when they were young. and co-sleeping at risk of SIDS However, a baby can be who is smoking or is sedated. if it shares the bed with a parent that responsible co-sleeping Dr McKenna quotes studies which show reduces the risk of SIDS. supervision of the adult, Babies sleeping outside the in a crib, in a room by itself, the chance of dying has two to three times from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. but it's thought that co-sleeping It's unclear why, puts the baby in a protected state. We see oxygenation levels, as being greater. which we've measured in a lab, We see breathing more stable. clinically normal for the baby We see thermo-regulation more when that mother is present. and things like that You hear a lot about SIDS made me feel safe. and just having him right there I knew he was alive. (Laughs) breathing and everything's good. I could have a little look and he's But other parents choose as soon as possible. to put their babies in another room So noisy, so it's easier to put them in their own room. you're getting some sleep. At least that way is getting up for work, My husband also get him up if I could. so I kind of not want to really once he was put in his own room. He was much better getting up to her Didn't want her to feel me or something like that. if she just made a little murmur she was in her own space, So I just made sure and, yeah, more independent. some modern-day parenting methods. Professor McKenna is critical of dad have a very different situation It's clear that the mother and the or paeleolithic ancestors. than our paeleocine ancestors It might be tempting to say, to learn to fit in.' 'Well, these babies have got you can make. Well, that's a decision in fact, will fit in. But don't expect that the babies, But Dr Harriet Hiscock says significantly in the last 30 years. demands on parents have changed who very clearly from the onset say, There's some families 'We are gonna fit around our baby.' carry the babies a lot more, And they tend to often feed them a lot more regularly with the baby. and even share a sleeping space this just really is not possible For other families where they've got to go to work in this modern day and age for other children. or they've got to care important time for co-sleeping Professor McKenna believes the most is while the baby is breastfeeding. the medical organisations, We know that most of American Academy of Paediatrics, including the for the first year of life. recommends that babies breastfeed for babies to be relatively close So it wouldn't be unusual at all in the same room with the parents. as much after those six months, The babies won't be feeding quite and maybe mothers will at that point or seven or eight months sleeping separately in another room. feel that their babies can handle are programmed to cry The reality is that newborns and wake up for regular feeding. the size of their brain They're going to double to triple and guess how that happens? in the first year of life and breastfeeding and sleeping. They do it by breastfeeding

culturally or write a memo saying, We can't just nullify that these babies out of the bed.' 'Hmm, you know, we've gotta get Why? Who said? Where's the evidence? That's not even a scientific truth. That is not a medical truth. and a construction. That's a cultural choice ought to know the difference. Parents at the very least just won't stop crying? But what do you do if your baby This is such a controversial issue. Do you soothe them until they stop? Or do you just let them cry it out? I just let her cry it out really distressed and she needs me, but if she does start to sound and walk straight back out. I'll go in and give her a dummy I don't pick her up or anything. to pick her up every time she cries. She needs to learn I'm not going screaming and it just feels awful Sometimes they cry and they're I won't be able to do this for long. and I can't... yeah. I'll be going in there in a minute, is called controlled crying. What these mothers are talking about I think that controlled crying is an unfortunate and unnecessary social invention - very, very recent. There are no people on the planet that actually, other than western industrialised folks, that actually even know what that is. They're not trying to be selfish. They're really communicating their love and affection and their needs for you. It's a pretty pure emotion. It's something somewhat to be celebrated, despite the fact that it can be hard. The definition of controlled crying is often understood as leaving a baby to cry until it's exhausted. It's something Dr Hiscock doesn't advocate and that's why she prefers the definition 'controlled comforting.' Controlled comforting refers to settling your baby in their cot or bassinette briefly and then leaving the baby for increasing time intervals where they may be grizzling or they may be crying to let the baby have a chance to put themselves back to sleep. Recent studies by Dr Hiscock show that controlled comforting has no adverse impact on a child's behavioural development. In fact, she says there were some benefits. Controlled comforting works in about 70 to 80% of the babies to improve their sleep. and that, in turn, is associated with a reduction in postnatal depression symptoms. Interestingly, 45% of Aussie mothers develop postnatal depression if their baby has a sleep problem. The baby waking up overnight we know from our work, is associated with a doubling to tripling of the risk of postnatal depression. A mum who's depressed finds it very hard to function, she can't enjoy her baby, and that has long-term impacts on the baby's social and emotional development, as well as on their language development. We don't to produce very unhappy and disappointed and exhausted parents - this is a given. At the same time, the baby's emotions, the baby's physiologies are not going to be subject to cultural nullification. Having a newborn can be stressful, and in the end, sleep time for mum and baby is likely to be a compromise. Ahead on Catalyst, sleeping off the pain. The ultimate relief. Young or old, most of us complain about not getting enough sleep, and here to discuss this with me is sleep expert Professor Drew Dawson. Welcome, Drew. Hi, Maryanne. Did you get enough sleep last night? No, you got me up at 6am to do this interview. I apologise. (Chuckles) Why do you think most of us feel like we don't get enough sleep? Well, I think we probably aren't getting as much as our body wants. But I think people probably are sleeping a little bit less than they were 100 years ago, and that does carry some consequences and risks for both the individuals and the community. But I think because we have a high number of competing activities in modern life, that sometimes we're making a choice that in the short term, I wanna do something other than sleep. And then we have to pay the piper eventually, when we realise that we chose other things than sleep and we really should've picked sleep. What do you think's going on in our bodies? Why does it feel so good to have a full night's sleep? Well, your body's recovering from the damage of the day, and each day, we wear bits of our body out, and then at night, we have to go through a process of recovery. Primarily, the first part of sleep around physical recovery, and then the second four hours of sleep is probably devoted primarily to mental recovery. OK, thanks, Drew. We'll talk more about the consequences of sleep deprivation later. But first, what about the sleeping habits of those pesky teenagers? Is it really all their fault? MALE REPORTER: How many of us are serious about getting a good night's sleep? On average, adults still need seven to eight hours of good sleep. What's interesting is how few adults get seven to eight hours of good sleep. Teenagers particularly, are chronically sleep-deprived. There's very little doubt about that. If you were to sample a typical high school classroom, I bet you there would be a 25 to 30% incidence of some attributable sleep disorder. We all know that getting regular exercise and eating nutritious food is vital to our health, but sleep researchers say getting a good night's sleep should also be added to that list. It's not just a luxury - it's a biological necessity. In the modern age, your chances of being fat, diabetic and having cardiovascular disease - and additionally, having depression and mood and psychiatric problems - goes up if you sleep poorly. And as I say, sleep is not just sleep - it's your sleep-wake cycle. If you've got the 24-hour clock wrong, as you get older, you will have many more physical health and mental health problems. ? Oh, I'm tired ? And I need to lie down. ? The part of your brain that tries to make you sleep and wake at the most beneficial times is the suprachiasmatic nucleus, otherwise known as the body's master clock. It receives information from your eyes about incoming light, so when it gets dark at night, it directs your pineal gland to secrete melatonin, the hormone that makes you sleepy. Then in the morning when the sunlight hits your eyes, the signal is given to stop releasing melatonin, making you more alert. Disrupt those light signals and your sleep-wake cycle can fall apart. I've had a patient recently who was completely blind from 18 months of age because he had a cancer in his eye - very sad case. But his body clock's all over the place. He'd be up at 2am, wanting to play, and he'd be asleep at 2pm because he has lost the light-and-dark differentiation. Most of us can override these daily light signals simply by doing things that keep us awake at night. But the impact of that on our master clock means we're risking more than just tiredness. Every cell in the body has its own clock, and they're all running to different signals, so it's a totally chaotic set of clocks. So, really important is the master clock. It's got to be right to tell all the rest - the liver, basically the gut, the heart, the rest of the musculoskeletal system - to get their act together. If you haven't got the brain bit right, all those others bits of the body will head off down their own track. (Yawns) For teenagers, with that early wake-up for school, getting enough sleep at night is a biological challenge. Teenagers actually need more sleep than adults - about nine hours a night - and they also have something called sleep phase delay. The major difference between animals and humans is really this massive frontal area. If you measure melatonin in teenagers, it is delayed and it's also probably smaller in amount that's secreted. So, for a teenager, 10pm to them is like 8pm, so there's no teenager in the world that will want to go to bed at 8pm and expect to fall asleep. I'd still be awake at two, and I'd look at the clock, and then it would be three, and then I'd fall asleep, and then my alarm would go off. (Alarm buzzes) 16-year-old Amelia Hartley sought treatment after two years of only getting four or five hours sleep most nights. Oh, I was so grumpy, I was irritable, every tiny thing annoyed me and getting at everyone about everything. Grades dropped dramatically. They're not gonna come to the doctors and say, 'I have a sleep phase delay problem.' They're gonna come because their teachers are complaining they're not performing, they're having emotional or behavioural problems, they might be labelled with Attention Deficit Disorder. Why? Because they can't pay attention. Because they're fidgeting and they're moving and they're not doing well at school. Because they're sleep-deprived. What appears to be happening increasingly with teenagers now, is taking that normal delay and going far too far with it. So, through use of computers and technology and Facebook and iPhones and everything else known to man, teenagers are staying up later and later and later. So, for older teenagers, young adults and then for the rest of us, what we're saying is optimally, the go-to-sleep time is around 11:00. Now, for younger teenagers, it's still gonna be around, you know, 10:00 to 11:00 - for older teenagers, it may be slightly later. We're certainly not talking after midnight, and for most of us, we're not really talking after 11:30. Once you've started to do that, you've really started to put the phase - or the onset of sleep - quite out of synchrony with the physical world. Successfully getting your body clock back on track begins the moment you wake up. If you start tomorrow, you need to basically get up earlier - that is around the time the sun gets up - to have the maximum sunlight exposure early in the morning to hit the eye, to send a signal to the pineal gland to turn melatonin off. Also, to be up and physically active, doing things, drives cortisol up, drives melatonin down, drives body temperature up - all the signals that this is the start of the 24-hour cycle. Then as you move into the evening period, you try to avoid physical activity, so that actually, cortisol and body temperature start to go the other way, darkness comes on. So, actually, that requires turning the lights out, stopping all the computers, TVs, everything else - to allow melatonin to surge onwards. You'll then go to sleep much more deeply into deeper phases of sleep, and you'll wake up feeling much more refreshed. As well as adopting what's called good sleep hygiene, such as banishing all media from the bedroom, Amelia was prescribed melatonin. The biological nail on the head, if you like. It usually does not have any bad side effects because it's a natural compound. Melatonin and the melatonin-based drugs are the closest things we have to inducing normal sleep. Traditional sleep drugs do not induce sleep - they just induce unconsciousness, right? Which you could do with alcohol or sedatives. You can make people not asleep but unconscious. That's not normal sleep. Consistent and good-quality sleep has turned Amelia's life around. I began to get friends back that I'd lost, and schoolwork has improved dramatically, and it was only at that point that I realised how detrimental my lack of sleep was towards my schoolwork. So, my grades went up, school was a place that I was actually happy to be at. What sort of impact does sleep deprivation have for example, on work? Yeah, that's a very complex question, and in tasks where you have to maintain attention for an extended period of time and the task demands you to do that, we find the effects of fatigue can be quite profound - so, truck drivers, air-traffic controllers. On the other hand, in tasks where you can self-pace your activity, and then a little bit longer to do something slowly and carefully, we see quite significant adaptive capacities of individuals to manage fatigue. What kind of impact would it have on a pilot, for example? Well, that's a quite complicated question. We've run simulator studies over the last few years, and what those simulator studies show quite clearly is that when pilots are fatigued, we see an increase in the types of errors that they make in the cockpit. What is reassuring, however, is that we also see evidence that tired pilots are actually capable of adapting to the types of errors and picking up the mistakes they make, either as an individual or as part of a team. So, we see that there is quite significant adaptation possible when people are fatigued, and that's one of the exciting new areas of research. There's been a long history of litigation around people falling asleep on the job and causing accidents, but quite interestingly, in the last year we've started to see an emerging litigation around the areas of the health consequences, as distinct to health and safety consequences. The US, for example, last year there was the first case where a group of employees initiated a class action suit to sue their employer for shiftwork being the primary cause of their type 2 diabetes. In that particular case, the judge said it's important that we start to think about this, because the evidence is starting to emerge of that link. This is a big wake-up call. Similarly, in Europe recently, shiftwork has been identified as a probable carcinogen under WHO guidelines, so this is a whole new frontier in terms of the public health implications and... ..and for businesses. ..for businesses, in terms of their legal liabilities. OK, thank you. Now, let's take a look at a big sleep issue for the not-so-young. ? SALSA For some people, ageing is a lot of fun. But as we get older, we can experience many different changes, including how we sleep. I'm probably sleeping a little more during the day because I get more tired. So, I'll have a two-hour nap, and then I can go for the rest of the night. The sleep of the older population is actually quite different than that particularly of children, and even adolescents. Most people don't appreciate that sleep across the night. is more like a rollercoaster We go down into deep sleep, about 90 minutes later, then come into light sleep back into light sleep and so on, then back into deep sleep, across the whole night. change as we age? So, how does that rollercoaster ride shorter of course, Well, the ride gets in the older person. and much less sleep And it gets less exciting as well, into such deep troughs so we don't go down really speeding. where your rollercoaster's There's more lighter sleep the night, as you can see. and more awakenings across (Chatter) Probably a majority of the older population deals with these changes without any difficulty. Most of the older population don't actually report any sleeping difficulty, so we don't want to give the impression that everybody's going to have poor sleep and suffer from that as we get older. ? BALLROOM I find having dancing as an activity keeps me fit and young, and enables me to sleep well... ..because when I come home, I've had a good exercise, and it's just lovely to lay down, curl up and go to sleep. (Birds tweeting) Come on. we're more likely to experience pain, But as we get older, doesn't come so easily. and then sleep had a major operation Four years ago, Barbara Kilpatrick to remove a tumour. had me open on the table, Unfortunately, when they growing out of my ovary - they found it wasn't it was growing out of my S2 nerve. the base of the tumour out, He couldn't get so he had to cut the S2 in half. It was a terrible time - nerve pain in my leg. just a continual, terrible it was always very broken sleep After the operation, I would go to bed of a night, because as soon as the pain would be worse. I was on sleeping medication but I didn't like taking that. Just about everybody knows that when you've got an ongoing pain, it can disturb your sleep. But what we've also found - and research in many places has found - that if you have poor sleep, it can make your pain worse. Dr Michael Nicholas recently ran a unique trial to test the effectiveness of cognitive behaviour therapy - or CBT - in managing the pain of people over 65. Barbara was part of the trial. By the time people come here, they've got lots of problems - not just pain... in how they worked with us. They were very, very good and questions and answers. There was always lots of talking we were trying to teach people In the program, strategies for their pain. better self-management in what we call catastrophic ways - For example, if you start thinking in the night and think, when you wake up I can't go on like this' - 'It's terrible, will make you more agitated that actually, and have more trouble sleeping. and change that way of thinking, So, if you could identify that then you'll sleep better. The same behaviourally, you go about going to bed, if you change the way that will help to improve your sleep. Encouraging exercise was also a key component of the program. I noticed a marked improvement in me. I was more mobile, and I think that was due to the exercise. It sounds a little bit trite, but it's not trite when I say accepting the pain. I've got to learn to cope with it. After the trial, I stopped... I wasn't taking any sleeping medication. Many people wonder if this approach could mean that people don't need to take medication for sleep. The answer of course, is yes. has shown that as we age, Dr Nicholas's research can be effective in easing lifestyle therapy between sleep and pain. that vicious cycle frontier of sleep research is? So, what would you say the new a couple of areas. Well, I think there's around the effects of sleep loss I think the emerging literature whether it's type 2 diabetes on public health issues, is a very important area. or public safety, an emerging set of technologies I also think we're starting to see fatigued individuals, around identifying settings at risk of fatigue, particularly those in occupational is gonna be one of the big areas in the next few years, and we're seeing a number of promising technologies starting to emerge in that area. Well, thank you for joining us today. My pleasure. Next week on Catalyst, safety specs for dozy drivers... Saving lives on the road in the blink of an eye. (Owl hoots) ..and ancient owl pellets. The amazing details that are thrown up from prehistory. That's all we have for you this week. You can go to our website for extended interviews with all our sleep experts, and you can follow us on Facebook and Twitter. charming vision from inside the womb Now, I'll leave you with some can be a bit of a yawn. which proves that waiting to be born Hope to see you next week. Thanks for joining us. (Yawning) Closed Captions by CSI This Program is Captioned Live.

Good evening, Virginia Haussegger

with an ABC news update. Britain's

phone hacking scandal may tougher privacy

tougher privacy laws here in phone hacking scandal may inspire

Australia. The Federal Government

promised to fast track a discussion Australia. The Federal Government has paper on

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intimidate it's a thinly-veiled a?> ? to

it's a thinly-veiled attempt to intimidate the media. For the first

time in more than 15 years a

time in more than 15 years a Canberra judge has handed down

judge has handed down a rare life sentence. Scott Alexander McDougall

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civil strife has compounded militants linked to Al Qaeda. Ongoing

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mainland capital to ban smoking in crisis. Brisbane has become the first

its central shopping district. its central shopping district. From

September, people who light up in

Queen Street Mall will be liable for September, people who light up in the

a fine of $200. To Canberra's weather aine of $200. To Canberra's weather a fine of $200. To Canberra's weather a fine of $200. To Canberra's

- cloudy and isolated showers, a - cloudy and isolated showers, a top

of 12 and low of 3. Sydney 16, Melbourne 16, Adelaide 15. More news in an hour. This brief came straight to the director. It is highly sensitive. We could prosecute but do we want to? Appalling crimes and a bizarre fetish. Find out which ratbag leaked the file and you're back in business. Relax, Erin. You didn't say a word. Nothing? It wasn't you that showed me the file. The Mervich case? The evidence is pretty clear. The guy was living with two beautiful sisters who belted him dead with a bolt cutter. If only it were that simple. A drugs possession charge? Impressive you avoided a conviction. for pulling strings. Lucky you're with the right family Oi. You wanna have a go, old man? You'll just have to wait, sonny. Bugger off. Hey, whoa, whoa, calm down, pop. ? Theme music Stand in a shop ? What do I do ? Waiting for that money to drop ? Stand all day on a concrete slate Don't get a break ? My feet are aching ? Saying what do I do ? What am I to do? ? What do I do? ? What am I to do? ? What do I do? ? What am I to do? ? was more than a good policeman. Alfred Robert McMahon He was a good man. He fought hard for what he believed in, even when it made him unpopular. And he stood by his friends when others fled, worried for their own skins. He was a fine mentor to many, not just his family. To people he came across in everyday life. Franco, the man that Alfred bought coffee from every day for 20 years - black, no sugar -