This topic was discussed and misrepresented on another thread... Here's the dope. (and you'll see Cindy Mcain's wise investimet with Lncoln savings too. And you thought Hillary was a wise investor.)

"In the 1980’s McCain was at the center of the Savings and Loan Scandal that ended up forcing taxpayers to bail out mismanaged institutions to the tune of half a trillion dollars. It’s something that most Americans are not aware of, but need to be, because it is repeating itself once again.

In short, John McCain became a U.S. Representative in part to the support and donations of Charles Keating, a shady lawyer who ran the Lincoln Savings and Loan. While McCain served in the House of Representatives, Keating flew McCain around the country on his private company jet. McCain took his family on Keating’s jet to vacation at Keating’s private Bahama resort on Keating’s private island. 9 times. McCain also failed to report the gifts on his income tax returns.

A few years later, McCain moved to the U.S. Senate, and shortly after Charles Keating contacted McCain and four other U.S. Senators for help. Federal investigators had gotten tipped off that Keating was running the Lincoln Savings and Loan as his personal piggy bank - giving himself and friends multi-million dollar loans and not repaying them. Keating also used his depositors money in risky real estate investments - one included McCain’s wife Cindy, who invested $359,000 in a strip mall and later sold the investment for $15,000,000 a year before McCain went to bat for Keating.

Keating asked the five senators, later known as the Keating Five, to throw their weight around and stop the federal investigation of Lincoln. John McCain and the other senators did just that, meeting twice with federal investigators and asking that they stop the investigation. It worked - for another 2 years. Long enough for Keating to run his S&L dry and cost taxpayers $3.4 billion in a bailout to pay back the funds Keating stole from his mostly retired senior citizens who had made the mistake of depositing their life savings in Keating’s S&L.

Keating went to prison after being convicted on 73 counts. John McCain and the Keating Five were under investigation for four months by a Senate committee, who reprimanded all of the senators but ultimately claimed they could not punish McCain because most of his immoral behavior came while he was in the House of Representatives. The House claimed they had no jurisdiction because McCain’s meetings with the feds came while he was a U.S. Senator. The other senators left office shortly after, but McCain stayed.

When the IRSstarted to look more closely at Keating’s finances, they discovered Keating wrote off the gifts, plane trips, and vacations he gave McCain. Then the IRS wanted to know why McCain falsified his income tax returns. McCain, who makes a point of claiming he and his wife keep their finances separate, claimed he thought his wife paid the taxes on the gifts, despite Cindy McCain not even traveling on some of the flights. Then instead of paying the IRS, McCain, a vindictive man who always has to get his way, made a donation instead to the U.S. Treasury.

When the scandal broke and McCain was asked by reporters about his wife’s investment with Keating, McCain replied, “You’re a liar…That’s the spouse’s involvement, you idiot,” McCain said later in the same conversation. “You do understand English, don’t you?” When reporters asked again about his wife’s ties to Keating, McCain said, “It’s up to you to find that out, kids.”

McCain ultimately weaseled his way out of the scandal, painting the other senators as being more culpable in carefully worded statements to the press. Nevermind that the other senators said McCain was much more involved then they were, and that McCain spent enough time with Charles Keating that one of McCain’s aides married Keating’s daughter. Or that an Arizona newspaper called McCain “The Most Reprehensible of the Keating Five.”

After the scandal, and facing two years to regroup before his re-election bid, McCain went back to the drawing board and recreated himself as “the Straight Talk Express.” Suddenly McCain was for campaign finance reform - despite voting against every campaign finance reform bill before the Keating Five Scandal."

I'm glad you provided the reference and called Robert Bennet, the special investigator of this scandal a liar. For those of you that don't know Robert Bennet is a well know Democrat who represented Bill Clinton and was the special investigator for this investigation. He has said repeatedly that there was no reason to believe that Senator McCain had done anything wrong in the Keating Five Scandal.

The Democrats in Congress on the investigating committee didn't want it to be the Democrat Four Scandal, so they kept the only Republican that was investigated under suspicion even after it was recommended that he be dropped from the investigation.

DEMOCRAT Robert S. Bennett, who was the special investigator during the scandal, suggested to the Senate Ethics Committee that it not pursue charges against McCain or Glenn, saying of McCain, "that there was no evidence against him."

"I found nothing in my investigation which caused me to question Senator McCain's integrity," said Robert Bennett

How much more clearly can it be than the Democrat special investigator declaring that ther is no reason to question Senator McCain's integrity. He repeats that to this day. But dude knows it all and is never wrong.

A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.

is this a Dude bashing thread? Are you the only one allowed to paste your article thread and be above reproach? Are your sources vetted for their centrist credentials?

You like to bash Obama for Rezko, and that the former 60's radical who was on some community action committe that Obama had a tangential encounter with, yet get pissy when the shoe is on the other foot.

The article I pasted included most of the same stuff that was in the Times article... written by a pro McCain writer...but had a more crtical, less obsequeous slant. Your article included a bit more about Cindy McCain in that I didn't realize she had a drug problem at one point.

Look. McCain took trips on Keating's private jet 12 times for paid vacations at his provate resorts and donated $$$ to McCain's campaign chest. Then he didn't claim andy of that on his taxes. When it was uncovered he paid (some of) it back and did a mea culpa.

yeah, as your article said, it was a "searing" experience for McCain. Getting caught always is, so I'm not surprised.

We're looking for good judgement in a presidential candiate and Mcain's failure to realize that these trips and all the fun was inappropriate directly puts his judgement in question. Even if he didn't have to repay the money, he should have known that even the potential for appearance of inpropriety is unacceptable.

don't blame me for what McCain has done, or what you have done in trying to tar Obama when McCain is not pure.

Obama talks about taking rides on private jets in his book. You know about all the campaign contributions given to his campaign from sleazy people as well. Exactly what McCain was doing. There is a good reason not to do this, because you want to avoid the appearance of impropriety. McCain did not avoid the appearance of impropriety. That is what was searing. He did not avoid the appearance of impropriety and this resulted in his integrity being questioned. He has taken this very seriously ever since.

You know who Bob Bennet is. He is not a guy that is going to offer cover for Republicans. He was the special investigator and offers a completely unequivocal exoneration of Senator McCain. There is no reason for him to do this repeatedly and openly unless he is sure McCain did nothing wrong.

A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.

I'm not familiar with Obama's private jet rides. is there a question of impropriety?

The point is: if you want to keep attacking Obama's integrity about Rezko or his money, and insist on reiterating other falsehoods that have been called out long ago, then you can expect McCain and his record to get similar treatment. it's that what's good for the goose, is good for the gander thing.

Actually, I'm not sure I know who this Bob Bennet is. Is he the conservative Bob Bennet who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul, or Book of Virtues... and then it came out later that he had a gambling addiction?

Obama's affiliations with these people need to be investigate like John McCain's was. If the Republican investigator says that there is nothing in my investigation which caused me to question Senator Obama's integrity, then I will say he did nothing wrong. These things give the appearance of impropriety. You don't think the Rezko thing is just to fishy to wipe under the rug.

McCain made some of the same mistakes Obama did. However, that was 20 years ago and he learned from these mistakes and has lived it for 20 years. Obama made these mistakes very recently and who knows what he learned from them. That's why he is about a decade or two too early for his run at the Presidency. What the hell is his hurry?

That is Bill Bennet you are referring to. Actually, Bob's brother. It's sort of the ying and yang in that family.

A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.

I think the Rezko think must have been investigated or we'd have heard something... especially in this election year. People talked about it (in the news and elsewhere) and nothing came out. Maybe in time something will.

I used to like McCain. I think he did learn from his mistakes up until about 8 years ago. About that time he learned some hard new political lessons vis Karl Rove and push poling defamation. I have found his behavior since then far less attractive, and dissappointing. And his continued insistence that Iraq was a necessary smart move slays me.

I think he has becme too irrational to be president, and his economics are frightening.

I don't know that Obama was in a big hurry to run for prez initially. Maybe he was, I don't know. I think to a very large extent he got sucked into it by the party, because of his keynote speech four years ago and the R's wanting Hillary to run this time ... and then he started winning primaries, primarily becaue many Dems though Hillary would be too divisive... so here we are.

less taxation and more accountability/less central planning is frightening? to who?

1 year ago, mccain was beloved by the democratic party because he was in bed with them so much....now that he is the gop nominee, he is satan incarnate, and mcbush and mcsame, and a conservative rightwing whacko?

dude, c'mon. what about mccain is frightening? he is far left of nearly all of us republicans. you should love that. there is nothing new and scary about mccain. do you seriously believe that he is trying to hurt this country? somehow he hates the little people so much that he would spend his entire life pursuing higher office to rape and pillage poor people?

muleskinner wrote:you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and a benalli in the other.

less taxation and more accountability/less central planning is frightening? to who?

1 year ago, mccain was beloved by the democratic party because he was in bed with them so much....now that he is the gop nominee, he is satan incarnate, and mcbush and mcsame, and a conservative rightwing whacko?

dude, c'mon. what about mccain is frightening? he is far left of nearly all of us republicans. you should love that. there is nothing new and scary about mccain. do you seriously believe that he is trying to hurt this country? somehow he hates the little people so much that he would spend his entire life pursuing higher office to rape and pillage poor people?

There are several things about McCain that I find frightening these days. Let's begin by stating that the John McCain of today is not the same John Mcain that I saw and heard 8 years ago. Also, I don't have all day to research and think of all the reasons but here are some off the top of my head...

economy:-thinks deregulating medical industry is a good idea.
-thinks we can tax cut our way out of debt... not that we necessarily need a tax increase, but being open minded is good while copping a position for political gain is bad.
-believes in tinkle down economics which has bee shown to help some (the wealthy) and hurt others (the vanishing middle class), and hasn't correctly observed or analyzed the economic patterns of the last 28 years. Just sticks to R dogma. (ie., not an economic maverick.)

general:-claims he a "maverick" all the time when in reality, he occassionally goes his own way, but has toed the Bush line far too often.
-Has shown a glaring lack of detailed knowledge on many issues: Shities/Sunnis'; Economy fundamentals sound---economic fundamental bad... he meant to say workers are sound (yeah right!); says it's time to put politics aside and work on behalf of the country and in very next sentence goes ppolitacl and slams Obama (doublespeak); claims accomplishesment for himself that are not his to claim, or claims them prior to actually happeneing (if at all, as in yesterdays House vote.)
-made capricious selection of Palin for running mate purely for political spalsh (and woman ex-Hillary) appeal, not because she has demonstrated any capacity to analyze a situation and then apply leadership. rather has shown a lack of basic domestic political knowledge (what does a VP do?); a willingness to lie (Bridge to nowhere; seeking earmarks by hiring lobbyist); shown a lack of transparency (first says she will then says she won't cooperate with investigation, orders state emeployees to not cooperate); allows her husband to inappropriately take part in state business meetings; no particular insight or sensitivity on international issues (might have to go to war with Russia over Georgia; The SNL parady this last weekend was to a very large extent a verbatim recital of her exact words.

There's more, but I have work to do and this isn't what I get paid for. will come back later to take on responses and other issues you may want to raise. Dude

Yo Dude....since you are so interested in scandals perhaps you would like to comment on this.

Here is a quick look into 3 former Fannie Mae executives who have brought down Wall Street.
Franklin Raines was a Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at Fannie Mae. Raines was forced to retire from his position with Fannie Mae when auditing discovered severe irregulaties in Fannie Mae's accounting activities. At the time of his departure The Wall Street Journal noted, " Raines, who long defended the company's accounting despite mounting evidence that it wasn't proper, issued a statement late Tuesday conceding that "mistakes were made" and saying he would assume responsibility as he had earlier promised. News reports indicate the company was under growing pressure from regulators to shake up its management in the wake of findings that the company's books ran afoul of generally accepted accounting principles for four years." Fannie Mae had to reduce its surplus by $9 billion.
Raines left with a "golden parachute valued at $240 Million in benefits. The Government filed suit against Raines when the depth of the accounting scandal became clear.

The Government noted, "The 101 charges reveal how the individuals improperly manipulated earnings to maximize their bonuses, while knowingly neglecting accounting systems and internal controls, misapplying over twenty accounting principles and misleading the regulator and the public. The Notice explains how they submitted six years of misleading and inaccurate accounting statements and inaccurate capital reports that enabled them to grow Fannie Mae in an unsafe and unsound manner." These charges were made in 2006. The Court ordered Raines to return $50 Million Dollars he received in bonuses based on the miss-stated Fannie Mae profits.
Tim Howard - Was the Chief Financial Officer of Fannie Mae. Howard "was a strong internal proponent of using accounting strategies that would ensure a "stable pattern of earnings" at Fannie. In everyday English - he was cooking the books. The Government Investigation determined that, "Chief Financial Officer, Tim Howard, failed to provide adequate oversight to key control and reporting functions within Fannie Mae,"
On June 16, 2006, Rep. Richard Baker, R-La., asked the Justice Department to investigate his allegations that two former Fannie Mae executives lied to Congress in October 2004 when they denied manipulating the mortgage-finance giant's income statement to achieve management pay bonuses. Investigations by federal regulators and the company's board of directors since concluded that management did manipulate 1998 earnings to trigger bonuses. Raines and Howard resigned under pressure in late 2004.
Howard's Golden Parachute was estimated at $20 Million!
Jim Johnson - A former executive at Lehman Brothers and who was later forced from his position as Fannie Mae CEO. A look at the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's May 2006 report on mismanagement and corruption inside Fannie Mae, and you'll see some interesting things about Johnson. Investigators found that Fannie Mae had hidden a substantial amount of Johnson's 1998 compensation from the public, reporting that it was between $6 million and $7 million when it fact it was $21 million." Johnson is currently under investigation for taking illegal loans from Countrywide while serving as CEO of Fannie Mae.
Johnson's Golden Parachute was estimated at $28 Million.

WHERE ARE THEY NOW?

FRANKLIN RAINES? Raines works for the Obama Campaign as Chief Economic Advisor

TIM HOWARD? Howard is also a Chief Economic Advisor to Obama

JIM JOHNSON? Johnson hired as a Senior Obama Finance Advisor and was selected to run Obama's Vice Presidential Search Committee

IF OBAMA PLANS ON CLEANING UP THE MESS - HIS ADVISORS HAVE THE EXPERTISE - THEY MADE THE MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Would you trust the men who tore Wall Street down to build the New Wall Street ?