I wonder though, had the inquirers of yesterday been offered the 'evidence' of today, would they have come back for more?There are many excellent exponents of Mediumship who consistently 'deliver the goods', but the general trend seems towards a 'showbiz' style of Service.Perhaps this is no bad thing as the rigid overtones of Christianity were part and parcel of early church services - no laughing, god will be offended' - have been dispensed with.The main difference/ lack could be seen as in very poor explanations of Life, via superb Spirit Guidance meeting the questioning minds of the day. The Principles, delivered as they were, in the time that they were, seem less able to cater for today's understanding, being almost revered as being written in stone, despite the thought- provoking contribution of Arthur Findley. In any case, they provide only a general guide to an understanding of the ism and unless the sentiments are taken into the lifestyle of the individual, serve no real purpose.

I wonder too, that with the raising of consciousness generally and the discarding of 'thou shalt' religions, whether some branches of Spiritualism might go the same way.I must say honestly, that I would probably have abandoned the churchyism before very long and I had seriously searched for at least 10 years immediately prior (a lot longer before that) to even wanting to attend a Service. Which would have left a great void in feeling the Truth of the ism, but being unable to accept the lesser presentation of it.

I do like a spiritual site that is not afraid of speaking the truth.Spiritualism evolving? Yes,I would say it has and still is,very much so.

From a child who was brought into the spiritualist religion quite young in life,I find the difference tremendous today to the atmosphere of yesterday.Now we see young people attending in jeans and sweaters,casual clothes and chewing their gum while joining whole heartedly into the general and cheerfulness of the spirit service.

I remember attending a service not so long ago,where the medium should have been a comedian on the side.There were lots of laughs and chuckles and as the medium said 'Spirit love laughter,it helps to bring love into the church'.I never forgot that.Petal

Seemed a shame to let this drop off the bottom.I agree with petal. Services are more involving and upbeat these days. There were some very gloomy gussies about when I wer a lad. Ladies had to wear hats to church in the fifties it was the done thing. I'm very formal but like to see folk comfortable in smart casuals in church. Just can't do it myself. Somebody still should wear a weskit and watchchain to meeting and thee thou in prayers,may as well be me. I wear my regular work duds to church. One wrinkle I do have is platform demmers 'fishing'..." I have a lady with me about my height, passed with a heart condition,she loved pink roses. Can anybody take that"?That simply did not happen back in the day but it does now.Other aspect we've evolved away from is kids Lyceums. Understandable because you can't get the teachers but sad in a way too. We had loads of fun in Lyceum and made lifelong friendships. More than a few marriages came out of Lyceums too. Same all over though. Sadly church youth work is a thing of the past and it's the kids who are missing out.

Do you think if we 'modernise' the idea of Spiritualism,more members of the church would attend meetings?Gone are the days when people attended any church in sombre clothes.Sat and attended services with a gloomy and serious look on their faces.

A short while back a medium,a very happy medium I may add,was a jolly little soul.She told us she had a queue of spirit people lined up waiting to give their messages.Then added that some of them were getting a little impatient because it was Saturday evening and they were off for a 'night out' so wanted to say 'Hello' to their relatives before they took off.

True or not,the atmosphere was definately on the up and up!Roll on the next generation...

Well if you find the winning recipe Joan your'e onto a fortune. We'd love to find a formula to pack em in. We get more at socials,stage specials and mini readings open afternoons than we do at regular meetings. We pick up the odd ones or twos from socials etc but not enough so as to hve to extend the building.Folk will turn out to good mediumship but the draw is in the name especially if they have been on telly. Now there are more good mediums who don't do stage shows than do. Not to say the stage mediums aren't good. They are brilliant hence they keep busy but numbers wise there are many more ordinary working mediums. But folk don't come to see them cos they don't know just how good some of them are.Also churchy meetings are completely alien to a lot of folk now. Our generation knows what to expect and we can sit and listen but todays audience has different approaches and expectations. I love a formal divine service and hope we always keep those but I suspect we are the last ones that will carry those on and then... who knows?

I'm too new to remember what it used to be, and there aren't any churches or circles around here anyway, so have no personal frame of reference.

But from what I read about it. . . yes, it seems to be moving toward vague New Ageyism (becoming part of the scene, along with crystals, Tarot, Wiccan, etc.), and toward Spiritism (reincarnation).

However, I think Spiritualism of 50, 75, whatever years back was probably as stage oriented as it is at present.

Home circles about died out altogether: but seem to be having a comeback.

The near-death experience, and instrumental transcommunication, are getting more media attention. But, this can also lead newcomers into traditional Spiritualism.

I think that like Freemasonry, mainstream churches, etc.. Spiritualism will do best by being what it is: returning to its roots. That certainly doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't alter its presentation to fit the times.

But what makes Spiritualism unique? The fact that it offers actual evidence, as opposed to faith, hope, or dogmatic teaching, of a continuing life after bodily death.

Interesting to see this topic re appear. Being in aus we are far more casual and when its a 43 C day whats teh point of a suit and tie. However, I know there is a lot more formailty expected of a medium in bothe the Uk and USA. When Rev Anne Gehman invited Lis and I to work at her church I was reminded minimum dress was a good jacket, shirt tie and smart trousers but a suit was preferable, long dress with arms covered for Lis.

Lis and I do tend to dress smartly for Sundays working or chairing. Off duty all summer for me are short sleeve shirt, sandals and shorts. Attendees can wear what they like in oz.

I am not sure that Spirit are at all bothered by what we wear though, or even if teh service is plain or dressed up. Whatever suits those who attend just get teh message over properly.

Here in Queensland, the weather makes any pretence at a dress code impractical. In some places you're overdressed if you have something on your feet, and after being here for 3 years I instantly get suspicious of anyone wearing a tie, as it is so out of place.

I personally can't see the need for uptempo energised services where you sing song after song and hug anything that moves. What made Jim's church in Adelaide so appealing is that you could go there on a Sunday and have a couple of hours of peace and stillness. For some people that was their only chance during the week to get a bit of quiet, and in this loud fast-paced world, that is priceless. The only downside of that was some mediums found it hard to work due to the relaxed energy.

Reminds of the first funeral I attended in Oz.An old friend of my mother's.Funeral in the UK is usually dark clothes,hats and sombre looks.

That funeral we attended was summer frocks,bright smiles and cheerfulness....and it wasn't a spiritualist funeral...meaning they haven't died,they're still here.

It was the lovely way the funeral was attended,and dressed for the weather.(reminds me of the item which was put in Two Worlds by Tony Orzen.An Australian funeral,of mother in law. Hymn was called 'the old witch is gone'.) Something like that,anyway....

As far as im concerned spiritulism in its self is evolving it has to, but the way its presented now is so different to how it use to be,as joan said ppl used to wear best clothes to attend a spiritulst church, i went to one a SNU one,ive never been so bored in all my life strict rules etc, the medium presented a young boy no more that the age of 9 and said hes one to look out for in the future, he was scared stiff, didnt want to hear anybody give a message he put his hands over his ears, i walked out and i said then i would never enter a SNU church again. i went to a Healing sanctuary what a difference it was fantastic i went there for years, people wore what they wanted it was so relaxed, and a lot of spirit activity was seen there, but because of the tv mediums everybody just wants a message to suit them selves i think ppl are more critical now and wouldnt put up with how spiritulist gatherings are conducted now,

You are right there bc. Folk these days are used to more professional presentations too. Just compare Take your Pick with Michael Miles and Bob Danvers Walker on olden days TV to say X Factor on telly today. If there's not a bit of razzl dazzle then many don't want to know. Stage mediums when some of them come to somebody then the sitter is often on camera on a big screen behind the medium so everybody can see their reactions to what's being given. That's something we could maybe look at doing in our meetings.

As far as im concerned spiritulism in its self is evolving it has to, but the way its presented now is so different to how it use to be,as joan said ppl used to wear best clothes to attend a spiritulst church, i went to one a SNU one,ive never been so bored in all my life strict rules etc, the medium presented a young boy no more that the age of 9 and said hes one to look out for in the future, he was scared stiff, didnt want to hear anybody give a message he put his hands over his ears, i walked out and i said then i would never enter a SNU church again. i went to a Healing sanctuary what a difference it was fantastic i went there for years, people wore what they wanted it was so relaxed, and a lot of spirit activity was seen there, but because of the tv mediums everybody just wants a message to suit them selves i think ppl are more critical now and wouldnt put up with how spiritulist gatherings are conducted now,

Namaste

Um,the boy was a bit young to receive a message like that.Did he show any understanding of the message itself?Joan

Some do start young. Gordon Higginson did. But you have to think about child protection issues. If the poor lad was upset then it just wasn't right.These parents of so called Indigo-Children worry me a lot.

No joan he didnt understand spiritulism at all he looked scared to death excuse the pun, but the medium who bought him there was apparently just a friend to his mother he was shaking, what you sais katy king about there not being enough razzle dazzle into mediumship gatherings is true, i have seen a few well known mediums including Doris stokes.and i came from there feeling flat, not enough came through for me it was all about what they had given to a certain charity, one medium i went to see i walked out on it was very poor, maybe because in a medium myself im looking for something more.

"....and i came from there feeling flat, not enough came through for me...."

Do audience/congregation members always expect that a medium will have something for them personally? If so, should we ALL expect something?

And if one has had a communication from a loved one, or if one already understands that life goes on beyond corporeal death, why should one continue to expect further confirmation of so-called life hereafter?

And are mediums always expected to be at their 'best', every single performance? Are they not simply human with all the ups and downs that many of us get?

Most come expecting a message but those who know aren't too disappointed if they don't get anything.One form of 'fishing' I do approve of is finding out if there are any new comers in a meeting and making sure that philosophy is suitably straightforward rather than preaching to the converted and above the heads of newcomers. Also then if they do get something that's also a bonus.

I never went with any Expetation so it dint bother me, you are correct mac in saying mediums cant be their best everythime, i have even said the same thing myself.but the medium that i went to see and walked out on was the worst one i have ever seen, her name is Doris Collins,i wasnt the only one to walk out a lot did what a farce, the place was half empty to begin with so ith a lot walking out left about 12 in there,

I never went with any Expetation so it dint bother me, you are correct mac in saying mediums cant be their best everythime, i have even said the same thing myself.but the medium that i went to see and walked out on was the worst one i have ever seen, her name is Doris Collins,i wasnt the only one to walk out a lot did what a farce, the place was half empty to begin with so ith a lot walking out left about 12 in there,

Namaste

Maybe that's one especially bad point about demonstrations? Even a usually-good medium may have difficulties with her/his mediumship on any given occasion at which point they ought really to say "Sorry this isn't working." and the demonstration be brought to a halt. But charging an entry fee naturally encourages the audience to expect a satisfactory performance and refunds for less-than-satisfactory ones are rarely offered. So the medium ploughs on even though they may wish they could stop.

I knew both Doris Collins and Doris Stokes. It's pointless to debate how successful their demonstrations were, or were not, but I do recall that reports regularly suggested that audiences loved them. But, then, should we always trust everything we hear or read?

I never went with any Expetation so it dint bother me, you are correct mac in saying mediums cant be their best everythime, i have even said the same thing myself.but the medium that i went to see and walked out on was the worst one i have ever seen, her name is Doris Collins,i wasnt the only one to walk out a lot did what a farce, the place was half empty to begin with so ith a lot walking out left about 12 in there,

Namaste

I have never seen either,Carron but Doris Stokes always appealed to me.Doris Collins,I have never heard of. Joan

Keeping in mind the title of the thread - 'Is Spiritualism Really Evolving?' - we should perhaps keep in mind that the Spiritualist church, and/or demonstrations of mediumship, are not Spiritualism. They are simply parts of it.....

Doris Collins didn't take any prisoners. Very imposig lady. She told 'em X. If they said no idea who X is never heard of X in mee life then Doris would go... Well they are telling me X and it is with you so go and check it and you'll see I'm right.... then move on. That would be about three quarters of the dem.Doris Stokes was lovely, like going to tea with your Nan.Thing is with all these big names of yesteryear they were only big because Barbie or Tony gave them big coverage in PN plus Laurie O'Leary was a first division agent. By and large they were as good on a good day as the next medium and as bad on a bad day. Gordon Higginson is the nearest thing Spiritualism has to a saint but frankly, apart from his phenomenal memory for people; he wasn't much better than anyone else working the circuit.If a medium is any good they get repeat bookings if they're not they don't and no matter how big a name, everybody has an off gig now and then.

Again, I am new to the posting but not new to Spiritualism. I think over 40 years I have seen most of it in ths country, and in the USA. In my profession, of which I have only recently retired I had more than my fair share of dealing with death and the dying, both from trauma and from chronic illness, and terminal illness of all types. I have watched the dying process, talked to and treated the patients.

However after all this time I still remain confused. As a very young man I was in wonder of what I found in my local Spiritualist church. I would go as often as possible, read all the books, and meet all the mediums. I took it all in, revelled in the new found truth and felt invincible.

Over the years this 'wonder' has decreased as I watch increasing mediocrity and, in my mind a reduction in survival evidence. I think Spiritualism will never regain the reputation it had in the early days, but that said it has always had its critics and controversies, but so do all 'religions'.

What passes as Spiritualism, and importantly the so called 'governing bodies' of it are a joke. More importatly it has failed to deliver the 'killer blow' to the sceptics and much of what is sprouted as survival is questionable in the extreme. Many mediums are deluded and full of their own importance, some are frauds, and the rest, well the rest do their best

There are only odd glimses of survival evidence, real 'good stuff' so to speak; and then we are left with so many contradictions and questions. This questioning by myself of course came more and more as I trained for my profession, as I spoke to colleagues and as I became embroiled in the realities of life and death.

Towards the end of my career I taught, but again my colleagues in my department never discussed survival, and I never raised my interest with them or my students; it was scientific work and methods they had to master, and they had a lot to learn !!.

Spiritulism, as it is , or was known I think is on the way out. I was somewhat re-animated by the growth of physical mediumship again; but this is in danger of turning into a farce if the practicing mediums do not start providing evidence of survival. The past mediumship of people like Alex Harris and Minnie Harrison help to keep me going, and also modern interest in the NDE is promising. ITC may havd its points, but to me its too much of a 'buggering about' excercise without the solid survival proof which we so desperately need.

So here I am, 40 years on, very much on the fence. Perhaps I am being too negative, but Spiritualism and the proof of survival does not seem to be moving forward. After all this time I have so many questions left unanswered, for instance:

If a medium is able to give an individual a christian name and tell the person who it is, then why is it always almost impossible for them to give their surname ? I know that if I communicated and wanted the person to be sure it was me, then if I was able to give my christian name, then I am damn sure Icould give my surnbame as well !!

What's all this with 'child guides'. I am sure strangers to Spiritualism must find this most strange. Ok, if we pass into spirit as a child, and we 'progress and grow'. Why then if I have grown and matured in spirit do I have to come back as little child !!!!. I am sure much of this does little for our credibility.

I could site much more, but if anyone has any answers to the above which make sense then I would love to hear them !!

I applaud you for your honesty.Have said the same words as you have. What has happened to Spritualism over the years?Over the last few years to be perfectly honest.I have memories of churches being filled to capacity,it was 'get there early' to find a seat.Why do we have to look for the mediums of long ago to worship,where are the newer mediums these days?All these courses on Mediumship now,high prices and still no worthwhile mediums,except ones of the old school.Most of them nearing retirement themselves.Where are the young and upcoming mediums of today?