Free advice from your friendly rhetoric master: If someone accuses you of some action against a group, there is nothing to be gained by accusing that very same group or indeed any another group for doing similar against your group or other groups. It is, frankly speaking, an embarrassing way of forfeiting the argument.

Please comment on whether there is something to be gained by accusing another group of crimes while denying similar or worse crimes of ones own ethnic group which preceded the crimes you are accusing the other group of having committed.
Please comment on one group condescendingly, with an air of moral superiority, repeatedly bringing up a crime another group has committed, and for which the highest representative has apologized for, while not acknowledging or apologizing for crimes committed by ones own ethnic group, for which no representative has apologized for.
Don't pretend to be neutral when you're nothing but.

"Poklosie" - a film by Pasikowski shown for a few days at the cinemas in Poland touches an important subject of Polish-Jewish relations. Unfortunately, it distorts the relations, and tries to impose using every effort that apart from a few righteous, all the Poles are repulsive anti-Semites. Why they are permanently trying to persuade us to this lie?

- We have to separate the interest in the subject in Poland, Germany and the USA. The American determinants are totally different becase the Diaspora is very strong there. Many of Jews left Poland, their father, grandfathers were the victims of Holocaust. A big part of the Diaspora considers Poles as anti-Semites. Remember that the envinronment has strong influence on culture, the film industry and media and imposes its internal belief about the Polish anti-Semitism. Next, in Germany there is a harmful and a false blend "Polish nationalism - Polish anti-Semitism". On the top of that there is a lack of consciousness in Poland.

What do you mean?

- The reactions to the accusation of anti-Semitism should be measured. The most importan is to go into the reasons, which caused Polish-Jewish prejudice. Of course I don't claim that amongst Poles there weren't anti-Semites at all. There were. But was the Polish anti-Semitism stronger than German, French or American? Was it unique? I think that in Poland after 1989 the reviewing discussion about the anti-Semitism is aimed to draw pepole's attention away from communism crimes during the Polish People’s Republic. You can see this from the biographies of the people who impose the reviewing discussion. The people who were strongly connected with the communist system in Poland, then were involved in reviewing the Polish anti-Semitism. But it is the people who should review from anti-Semitism not the elites. The best example of such attitude is the Jedwabne case.

To which refers "Poklosie" ...

- Where a crime has been commited and this is a fact. But the same fact is that the book by Gross about Jedwabne is unreliable and distorts the history. The problem is that the so-called forces of progress in Poland consider the distorted history as a dogma. The people who denies this are called (by the so-called forces of progress in Poland ) freaks and nationalists. This distorted history is approved by such authories as Andrzej Wajda, who prises the Pasikowski's film. Unfortunately this is the way of thinking which harmonizes with the image of Poles in the Weastern Europe Countries.-> Through the Gross' glasses: greedy, primitive, murdering because of greediness, as well, jointly responsible for the Holocaust and the same anti-Semitic as Nazis. Not Germans, but Nazis! In Germany a documentary is made whose director expressed such judgement about Poles. I was dumbfounded when I heard this. So the image of a Pole as an anti-Semite is still well in the Weastern Europe Countries. Films such as "Poklosie" can only strengthen the image, but in mass-awareness this time. The people are to go tho the cinema. Pasikowski knew what was expected from a "progressive" film. If he wants to get an award and favourable review he has to do what suits the mainstream.

Where are the truth searchers then? The film refers to the authentic events during the WWII. How can they the attitude of a small group announce as a norm? After all the majority of Poles behaved at least decently towards the Jews.

- This is the repeat of the Gross's fraud, who crossed off Germans from the Jedwabne crime. He didn't accept their eviden leadership perpetration of the crime. "Poklosie" where there are only a few righteous, repeats the Stalinist and communist way of thinking. The film is to prove that in Poland there is a few progressive and tollerant pepole - the readers of "Gazeta Wyborcza" and Tygodnik Powszechny". The rest of the Poles is a dangerous rabble. The communists also were convinced that they knew better. That's why they had to wipe out so many people because they weren't fitted for building the socialist society. This way of thinking is still present amongst the Polish "progressive peopole". They don't have the gentry background but Stalinist one. This is a typical behaviour which exists in post-communistic countries. In the Western Europe Countries similar treatment of the own nation wouldn't be possible. There is civil society. Someone who would be similarly disdainful of one’s own countrymen, would be publicly discredited, says a well-known historician, prof Bogdan Musial.

As catharsis, then catharsis… time for a Polish film about how Poles were killing the Ukrainians in Wolyn with saws.

1. My knowledge about the worldly culture is not impressive, so maybe somebody of You will help me - has a famous film in the world ever appeared about how the Germans had been killing the Jews? Did this kind of film appear especially in Germany? Has any film been made about a meeting in Wannsee where murdering of millions of Jews had been decided, after which jellyfish and poultry in three tastes were consummated for dinner? I do not know this kind of a film. Well, there was the film ‘The last stage’ by Wanda Jakubowska from the years 1946 but outside Poland it was unknown.

2. Instead the worldly masterpieces were created about how the Germans had been rescuing Jews. The ‘Schindler’s List’,‘A pianist’. How beautifully were wonderful attitudes of fair Germans shown in them, in the face of the overwhelming evil. Schindler rescued thousand of Jewish workers in such a way that he simply had not sent them for death. And the film ‘A pianist’ showed a beautiful attitude of a German officer, captain Hosenfeld, who had rescued heroically a Jewish musician Wladyslaw Szpilman from death, to whom he had brought food. Schindler was rescuing Jews in Cracow, Hosenfeld in Warsaw. Where is Cracow, where is Warsaw? In Poland…And Poles? And Poles, numbering 15 people, were forcing one and a half thousand Jews to a barn in Jedwabno at that time. Unfortunately, this time the Germans were late with help…
(READ: The truth about Jedwabne:http://www.naszawitryna.pl/jedwabne_en_124.html
andhttp://www.naszawitryna.pl/jedwabne_en_121.html

3. Has a worldly-famous film or a novel appeared – please, correct me if I am wrong – about how Poles had been rescuing Jews during the war? Instead famous works appeared about who Poles had murdered Jews. The whole world already knows the ‘Neighbours’ by Jan Tomasz Gross, and soon it will see the film ‘Aftermath’. Earlier there was the famous ‘Shoah’ by Lanzmann about a cruel indifference of Polish boys towards Holocaust. Among literary and movie works a clear message is going to the world – Poles were killing Jews, whereas the Germans were rescuing them.

4. A cruel nation, those Poles. Cruel for ages, because it has already been thousand years since cruel Poles murdered German children on shields near Cedynia. Such a picture of Poland is in the eyes of today’s average American man, for example, Barack Obama. Such a picture is also in the eyes of the average Pole, for example Maciej Stuhr (comment: This said Maciej Stuhr an actor from "Poklosie". Such historical ignoramus teaches us the history and voices his opinion about killing Jews. The true is different, it were Germans who murdered Polish children on shields near Cedynia.)

5. When Polish creators will have presented a full picture of Polish crimes on Jews, it will be necessary to show to the world how Poles were killing the Ukrainians in Wolyn; with saws. These terrible crimes cannot be forgotten either. As catharsis, then catharsis…

(Lets remind, about 200 000 Poles were murdered in Wolyn and Eastern Galicja by Ukrainian nationalists when Poland was under German occupation during WWII.)

To your first point, there was an HBO production called "Conspiracy" which ran on HBO in the USA for months. An HBO film (especially back then) was the next best thing to a big-screen production.

To your third point - i don't know, but if there is such a need for a novel then more Polish writers should step up to the plate and write one IN ENGLISH! No publisher is going to bother searching through obscure authors of a medium-sized central European country in a language that is...well...not the easiest to translate.

If 'the world' wants to read about such a topic, they will read about it. The market will decide.

Oh and your fourth point. I don't think even most Poles or Germans know about the Battle of Cedynia, so good luck pulling away the average US teenager from his Xbox to tell him about the Battle of Cedynia ;^)

Film is a business. And just like any business it is there to maximize its profits. I believe this controversy stirred up by Poklosie is a brilliant way to put more "butts in seats" as they say in Hollywood.

So why dont Germans shoot a film about Germans murdering 200 000 Polish civilians in Wolyn and Eastern Galicja or about Germans murdering 35 000 representatives of Polish elite in Katyn, Miednoje and other places in the East where so called Katyn Massacre happened . Many Russians and Ukrainians descendant of the real preparators probably would like to see such a film. Many degenerates and masochists from Germany probably too. Do you think that such films would be not enough controversial?

Sorry but your way of thinking is absurd. In no country such slandering of its own nation wouldn't be possible.

"You must remember always that of all the arts the most important for us is the cinema." said in 1924 V.I. Lenin.

And that mass murderer knew what he was talking about. This simple truth was not lost on Goebbels (the list of well-made flicks is long). And even in the USA when it suited FDR's propaganda, he commissioned in Hollywood "Mission to Moscow" - same crew that produced the immensely successful Casablanca, but why don't they ever show that other movie nowadays? Pasikowski's Pokłosie falls into the same, latter category, though I doubt it's so well-made.

The first two weekly magazine covers were ironic and sarcastic, with critical articles inside. Both represent the left of centre and central political ground, together with Newsweek. The third, Uważam Rze, is known for its conservative, nationalist views, similar to those of the right wing press in the UK.

Poland has had latent anti-Semitism for at least several centuries, in common with the rest of Europe (the first country to expell Jews was the England of Edward I. It was Cromwell who let some back in in the mid 17th century). Not surprising given that historically it was the home and haven of most of Europe's Jewry.

The old "Commonwealth of Both Nations", liquidated by its aggressive absolutist neighbours in 1795, had since the Middle Ages been the home and refuge of Europe's Jewish community. In modern terms the territory of the Commonwealth covered Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus and Ukraine.In 1939 over 6 million of Europe's 9 million Jews lived there.

Nazi Germany exterminated 2/3rds of Europe's Jews, starting with those inhabiting the old Commonwealth lands. They did their mass shootings and they placed their extermination factories precisely where the majority of their victims lived. And the Nazis made the penalty for aiding and abetting their victims death for the helpers and their families.(unlike in Western Europe).

Yes, some Poles, especially in territories occupied by the Soviets in 1939-41 did help the Nazis carry out pogroms, albeit on a very small scale. The Poklosie film is about the continuing local cover up by the descendants of the perpetrators and the attempt to break the guilty silence. It is not an "anti-Polish" film as the hero is a Pole.

However, thousands of Poles did help their Jewish neighbours where possible and during the war the resistance movement executed those Poles found guilty of collaboration with the occupying Germans (over 2,500 individuals). Surviving members of the very small pre-war Polish communist party (KPP) took control of Poland in 1944-45 on the back of the Red Army and the Soviet security police the NKVD (KGB forerunner). Many of them happenened to be of Jewish origin and they formed a disproportionally large part of the new security apparatus until 1956.

Latent anti-Semitism in Poland comes to the surface in the blogs of the anonymous Internet portals. It is still associated with "Judeo-Communism" and with the remnants of conservative Catholic opinion led by the conservative wing of the episcopate and priesthood.

Nevertheless, anti-semitism is on the decline with, I would venture to say, the large majority of Poles not having anti-semitic views. After all, the Jewish community in Poland is only about 7,000 strong and yet Polish citizens of Jewish origin or faith do play a significant and positive part in the country's political (from left to right) and economic life.

This text is full of lies and stereotypes, because an ignorant journalist writes about historical matters whereof he/she has no clue. Firstly, does the author define the notion of an antisemite? Secondly, does the author know that the film itself is not a historical one, but a purported horror with a plot that ends with a crucifixion of the protagonist? Thirdly, does the author know that "Neighbours" by J.T. Gross, the purported source for the film, is not a scholarly book with the whole methodological apparatus and unbiased, meticulous testimony research, but a just an essay based on hearsay? Fourthly, does the author know that nobody carried out a serious exhumation of Jedwabne massacre victims killed by the Germans? Etc. One could multiply questions concerning this text and find no satisfying answers.

I have to add, the last, probably, the most important thing. So called "Polish nation" is in fact totally diverse. Genetical evidence, shows that 10-15 percent of the whole nation's genes come people of "jewish descent". So, in modern Poland, about 4-6 million Poles are in fact "Jews" or rather, Polish nation is in fact, one of the most "multi-cultural, multi-ethnic" nation in Europe. Genetical evidence shows that so called Polish nation, in fact, is in 40-45 percent Germanic, in 30-35 percent Slavic, in 10-15 percent Jewish. So, everyone who says everything wrong about Poland or Polish nation is THE ANTISEMITE and everyone who says something wrong about Jews is, in fact, ANTI-POLISH. It should be clear for all.
PS. In Jedwabe, it Poles murdered other Poles.

This is definitely true. Similarly North American Ashkenazy population has clearly very strong Slavic and Germanic heritage. This makes both antisemitic statement from 'real Poles' and carefully cultivated antipolonism of some North American Ashkenazy Jews (@ 9bXe6o6Meu) quite grotesque.

It can lead to hilarious situations. I am speaking from personal experience: when my family was visiting in Poland ~15 years ago, my somewhat jewish looking child was pejoratively called 'foreign Jew' by kids on the city bus. I know it is sad but here it gets funny: Ten years later the SAME child was called (several times) a German Nazi by a blond, blue eyed 'proudly Jewish' kid in Canada.

Tribal attitudes are not passed through genes, they are learned and passed from one generation to another. I sincerely hope that many so called 'polish' and so called 'jewish' teens will get the chance to see the movie.

That sounds really nice, but not very accurate. Along the Wisla basin stretching east towards the Pripet marshes is the largest concentration of Y-DNA haplogroup R1a1a (the dominant gene in Western Slavic peoples along male lineage) found in well over 60% of the local population which is huge genetically speaking. Germanic people are R1b while Semitic are J1 or J2. At least the silver lining is that Slavs are R1a which is genetically closer to the original 'Aryan' gene R1 (found in North India, Pakistan, Afghanistan) than R1b which is an admixture with Celtic and other Caucasian strands. So Hitler had it backwards as to which group was more 'pure'. I hope he is turning in his grave :^)

".. so called Polish nation, in fact, is in 40-45 percent Germanic, in 30-35 percent Slavic, in 10-15 percent Jewish"

If you split the 35% supposedly Slavic natives into sub-groups you may end up with maybe 10% real Polish. But then at least one half of that 10% lives in the UK, France, Italy or in the USA. Are we not getting close to ZERO ?

It's really peculiar that the film about Irena Sandler wasn't a polish film...why?
I'm not planning to watch the film "Poklosie".

When it's about anti-Semitism. As far as I know it was quite common in also other countries, at the time before war. Polish people did not made Holocoust. If we would be treating the Jewish people so badly why there were living in Poland for 800 years. And why we are not talking about them as polish people, even though they are from different religion. How come we don't have a right to cry after the memebrs of my society?

The other thing, I don't remember what was the punishemnt in the western countries for giving a shelter to Jews. But I do know that in Poland the whole family also with the newborn were sentenced to death.

The Jedwabne, I would like to know what really happend, so please can we really have full investigation? If I need to say sorry, I will, but I want to know the full story first.

I forgot to write, that, nearly 70 years after the war, American Cinema hasn't yet made a movie about American Complity in Holocaust.
Everyone should know about the biggest Anti-Semite of 20'th century, Mr Henry Ford, role of Ford Motor Company, General Motors, General Electric, IBM and plenty other companies, which helped Germans.

My late grandmother was born in Warsaw where, as a little blond-haired girl, she was able to go to the market and buy food during the pogroms in the early 1900's, whereas her darker-haired siblings would have been killed on the street. The day she came to the United States she stopped speaking Polish forever and devoted herself to learning English. My grandmother embraced her American identity as completely as she rejected her Polish homeland.
(Another thing my grandmother told me - she had only one cousin who stayed in Poland and survived the Holocaust. He did so by moving to another town and pretending not to be Jewish. A Polish neighbor spotted him and attempted to tell a German soldier, but the neighbor did not speak German. My grandmother's cousin spoke German and told the soldier that the woman was insane and that she was speaking nonsense). The experience of my grandmother's family was that Poles were relentlessly, violently and almost uniformly anti-Semitic long before the Nazis or Communist Poland.
More than twenty years after her death, after reading about young Poles (and meeting a few), I felt that finally Poland had changed, and that I might even visit Warsaw one day. Reading the comments from Poles that they had an excuse to rob and murder Jews in 1941, when they were already violently anti-Semitic, I realize that it will be another generation before Poland as a nation will face up to the truth like Germany did.

"Reading the comments from Poles that they had an excuse to rob and murder Jews in 1941, when they were already violently anti-Semitic, I realize that it will be another generation before Poland as a nation will face up to the truth like Germany did."

Interestingly, there is not a single word in your comment about those Jews who collaborated with the Soviets in their action of cleansing the East from Poles. You do not mention those Jews who worked for Soviets and sentenced our war heroes to death in 1940s and 50s.

And it's so cynical that you attemp to judge and school us. A film like Pokłosie is just a proof that Poles are facing up to the truth. Maybe it's time for you to do the same?

Once the horrible truth about Jedwabne was revealed our president at that time - Aleksander Kwaśniewski - apologized the Jews. Did any of Jewish leaders apologize for Jewish collaboration and pogroms on Poles?

"I realize that it will be another generation before Poland as a nation will face up to the truth like Germany did."
This comparison isn't apt.
First of all Poland has faced up to the truth and apologized in 2001 for what Poland's traitors did to Polish citizens of Jewish ethnicity at Jedwabne in 1941.
Secondly, Germany's crime of murdering 6 million Jews and millions more Slavs is in no way equivalent to what these Polish traitors did.
Thirdly, Germany's work is by no means complete. Why has it never compensated a single member of the Roma community?
Fourthly, don't count on German self-awareness. Thanks to Hollywood, Germans now have a national hero who they worship with blind self-indulgence. Yet they're unaware that like much of his fellow German aristocracy of the day, he was a vile racial supremacist who "was endorsing both the tyrannical occupation of Poland and the use of its people as slave labourers" (Housden, Martyn 1997. Resistance and Conformity in the Third Reich. New York: Routledge. ISBN 0-415-12134-5. page 100.)
This man was Claus von Stauffenberg.
Germans need to do at lot more work.

In early 1900's Warsaw was part of the Russian Empire where pogroms were encouraged by the Russian secret police Ochrana, and the Russian authorities would not attempt to stop the rabble from attacking. In fact many of the pogroms of this time were executed by Cossacs - Russian paramilitary troops, or dragons, used to pacify the population inside the empire.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bia%C5%82ystok_pogrom
Late nineteen century Europe was a place of nationalism rising and citizens no longer being defined by their state alliance, but by the ethnic group, they belonged to. This trend, initiated by Bismark's efforts to create a national German state, to the exclusion from enjoyment of full citizenship rights of all non Germans, quickly spread to all ethnic groups around Europe, creating a besieged fortress mentality among their members and also giving rise to rampant anti-Semitism. At the same time the autocratic regimes of central Europe eagerly used the nationalist and anti-Semite ideology to rule their multi-ethnic states according to the "divide et impera" principle. Sadly, these sentiments did not die down after WWI and the creation of many new central European nation-states. Anti-Semite political groups were strong, though not dominant in the interwar Poland and Jews were subject of discrimination and acts of aggression. This were not the attitudes desirable at the time of entering into another devastating war were two totalitarian regimes again used the antagonisation of ethnic groups to further their rule and one had anti-Semitism and the unprecedented goal of annihilation of all the Jewish people on its banner.
There is never any excuse to rob and murder, and I doubt the articles in the quoted magazines make such statements (The Economist journalist likely misunderstood). But in order to prevent robbery and murder an unadultered rule of law must exist in the jurisdiction. Such rule of law seized to exist in 1939 in Poland occupied by Germany and Soviet Union, as groups of people were singled out and prosecuted based on their ethnicity and rules of collective responsibility were introduced by the occupiers.
I feel deep sympathy for the suffering members of your family endured in Russian (1900's) or German (WWII) occupied Poland from the Poles and others. It fills me with shame and anguish that some Polish people participated in acts of violence against their Jewish compatriots collaborating with the occupiers, and that the Polish state was too weak to protect all its citizens, or its independence, for that matter. I can also see the shortcomings of the Second Polish Republic in preventing acts of discrimination against Jews and other minorities.
I would, however, like to ask you, to consider, if the view of the Polish people preserved in your family memory, as justified by the endured persecution, may have at the same time been shaped by the very XIXth century optic of perceiving their fellow citizens through their ethnic identity, stereotyping and generalizing all negative experiences to all members of the group. Please consider, that such attitudes were the root cause of the calamities that befell the European population in the XXth century and the unmatched monstrosity of the Holocaust of the Jews.
And maybe you can reconsider your plans to visit Warsaw - not to give or deny the absolution to the Poles for their their anti-Semitism - but to learn about the millenium of the rich and extraordinary history of Polish Jews, in the newly open Museum of the History of Polish Jews.http://www.jewishmuseum.org.pl/en/cms/home-page/

For majority of Germans, Stauffenberg is traitor. He betrayed Germany and it should be clear for anybody. Officer who betrays his army will always be a traitor, no matter of anything. The same is with Kukliński, I have anti-communist views, but I consider him as a traitor, because he betrayed his own army.

The belief in a vast anti-Polish conspiracy among Jews, in a nearly Jeuden-free Poland, is perplexing. As MaciekZee points out, there are still some Poles left who are so in need of expressing their anti-Semitism that they must commit anti-Semitic acts against gentiles. There were many Communists in Poland, including, I am sure, a bitter, infinitesimally small remnant of the Jewish community that once made up nearly a third of the population, who did not identify as Jews and certainly were not acting as or on behalf of Jews, but as pawns to the USSR. However, blaming Poland's post-war troubles on "the jews" in a place where almost none exist is a kind of delusional behavior. Yes, Poles suffered greatly in the 20th Century and I am sorry for their suffering, but that is the result of being caught between 2 aggressive countries led by fanatics. And even great suffering is preferable to utter destruction.
On the other hand, thank you to the modern Poles who are able to free themselves of the illogical pseudo-ideology of anti-Semitism.

The following sentence should have had a comma, to avoid the unintended ambiguity:
"It fills me with shame and anguish that some Polish people participated in acts of violence against their Jewish compatriots, thus collaborating with the occupiers, and that the Polish state was too weak to protect all its citizens, or its independence, for that matter."

Poland was an impoverished nation when your grandmother left, and chances are she left when Poland was not free, or she left when Poland was at war with surrounding countries which had minority representatives living in Poland fighting against Poland in these wars. Not a great environment to establish good relations with all minority groups within Poland. Jews during and prior to WW I had agitated for a Jewish country to be carved out of what used to be the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth which was seen as disloyal to the Polish state which accepted them centuries prior and allowed them autonomy and religious freedom when all other countries were kicking them out. 500,000 Russian Jews fleeing the Russian civil war were accepted by the newly created but devastated Poland after WW I and given citizenship, something no other country has probably done in such a short time and with so many people. The reason other countries don't do this? Accepting so many people strains the economy. Poland was newly created after 123 years of occupation, willful neglect, and then devastated by being the main battlefield of WW I, and then being the battlefield for the Polish Bolshevik war, the Polish Ukrainian war, and a few uprisings in the western parts which joined Poland later against Germany. Unfortunately Jews fought Polish troops trying to establish Polish jurisdiction in disputed territories. Then came the depression .... So, there may have been tensions in Poland, for obvious reasons, but please do not talk about history and make gross exaggerations such as "her darker-haired siblings would have been killed on the street." That is simply not true.
You need to also face the fact that there were Jews that took up arms against Poland, before WW II and during WW II, collaborated with the Soviets, and even the Germans. Jews need to face up to this truth, as well. The hypocrisy must stop, and free debate, and a hefty dose of education should lead to this. But with AH's around it will take some time before the truth will be presented fairly, without gross omissions and distortions of history.

"For majority of Germans, Stauffenberg is traitor. He betrayed Germany and it should be clear for anybody."

__________________________________

Ehm - no.

Maybe that was the case in the 1950s - today he's considered a national hero. By a very strong majority, mind you.

Bi-annually on July 20th (anniversary ofStauffenberg's failed coup), the central swearing-in of new Bundeswehr recruits from all over Germany is held in the Bendlerblock, the former Wehrmacht command in Berlin where Stauffenberg was executed.

"The film’s premiere last month led to a huge wave of internet activity with strong doses of anti-Semitism, mostly pointing to the presence of Jews in the state security apparatus of Communist Poland"
That's not the only issue raised. Probably the most important is that some Jews collaborated in 1939 with the Soviets. In 1939 Jedwabne was annexed by the Soviet Union. Some Jews in the annexed lands - definitely a minority - collaborated. And this was nothing exceptional - Soviet Union/Russia has a long tradition of using minorities to spur dissent like in todays Georgia, Bosnia or Moldova.
And this collaboration is a big issue here. From 1937 Soviets conducted extermination of Poles in Soviet Union:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD_%281937%E2...
When they entered Poland - they started sending hundreds of thousands to Syberia in cattle cars. Or they simply executed them right away as in Katyn.
And at the same time you had Jews collaborating in this madness. Sometimes this collaboration went way too far and turned into pogroms on ethnic Poles. One example here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Brzostowica_Ma%C5%82a
Authors that I read - Norman Davies or Niall Ferguson - write about the hatred against the Jews that was born in 1939 (and I mean hatred, not antisemitism which was definitely present before the war). Brzostowica Mała is only 100 km away from Jedwabne. It's not hard to imagine that some were willing to even the score once Germans entered the land in 1941.
So my problem with the film, and more broadly with the debate, is that first you get a very selective reading of the history. Crucial facts that do not fit the story are simply omitted. And then you get articles like the one here that bash Poles for their antisemitism. I do not see how this can be cathartic.
I would really like to see a story about the events in 1939 in Soviet-annexed Poland.

Jewish communists in Jedwabne made up a tiny percent in the entire Jewish community. Heads of the local communist committee in that town were both ethnic Poles. Ironically it's not ethnic Poles who were thrown into the barn and burned alive. Also can you blame Jewish children for communism? etc. etc.
Please read A. Żbikowski, Geneza Jedwabnego. The problem of Jewish collaboration with Soviets is incredibly overestimated and is a post-factum attempt to rationalize the killings of innocent people.

I see that instead of giving a counter-argument you try to ridicule it. I was very specific at stating the fact that only a minority of Jews collaborated (the same is true with Poles under Nazis). So your comment "can you blaming Jewish children for communism" is simply absurd.

Is Jewish collaboration a post-factum rationalization of Jedwabne massacre? Give me a break. Poles are sent en masse to Syberia or shot right away. And they see Jewish collaboration which turns into pogroms at times. What do you expect will happen when Germans enter the land? Poles saying - we don't mind what has happened two years ago?

But I do have to agree that by the end of the day the reasons for pogroms are local - you just have to have enough people without morals who have an opportunity to kill. In that sense Jewish collaboration had only an indirect impact on what happened next. It was the people in Jedwabne who were guilty.

By no means do I want to justify the bandits at Jedwabne. What I am against is showing only case of Jedwabne and using it to bash Poles for antisemitism. Just look at the article there is not a hint about why the Poles in 1941 hated so much Jews in Eastern Poland. A casual reader will conclude that Poles were in fact co-responsible for the Holocaust. I fear that to some this game is about that.

You are right, I did miss the "definitely a minority" in your previous post. My apologies. However if you insist on detailed analysis you should also remember that in the waves of Soviet deportations to Siberia Jews also made up quite a proportion. The problem of that time is that Poles saw the collaborating Jewish minority only. So it was a matter of wrong perception which, among other factors (predominant influence of antisemitic Endecja) contributed to those massacres. And even though this pattern of antisemitic violence is specific to the areas which were first under Soviet and then German occupation, today historians are discovering other countless cases of collective Polish collaboration in the Holocaust -- the so called Jew hunts described in the case study by J. Grabowski (Judenjagd) as well as B. Engelking-Boni. It's no game, this is pure analysis of historical sources. It's also a reason to be proud of Polish historians who are the avantgarde of Central Eastern Europe in facing the difficult aspects of Polish past.

I am far from blaming the whole Jewish population in the East. I am pretty sure that most of them were against collaboration. Its always a minority that collaborates. Be it Jewish or Polish. Unfortunately, often one collaborator is enough - he'll simply tell who is who and pass all the recent gossip. And then Nazis or Soviets will know which door to knock at or which hideout in the forest to check.

And the fact that Jews were taken to Syberia too does not justify the collaboration or the pogroms on Poles. It just shows that those who collaborated had it all so wrong. They helped Soviets get rid of Poles while it was the Soviets who were the real danger to the Jews.

And I agree that Jedwabne was not a single case. In my region of Central Poland there were killings too.

What I lack is any kind of acknowledgement on the Jewish side of what happened in Eastern Poland. How can we have a debate about the past when the only sins of Poles are brought to light? and debated I haven't heard of a Jewish leader who would apologize for their pogroms the way Aleksander Kwaśniewski did apologize for Jedwabne.

The narrative of Polish nationalism is built around victimhood. The emotional tone of any discussion about history often lapses into paranoid delusions about neighboring countries and ethnic groups. Russians, Germans, Ukrainians, Lithuanians and Jews are the usual targets, but Jews are in a special category as a once and always "internal enemy." Religion was always a sticking point, but in modern times paradoxically it was the ambition of Jews to blend in that triggered particular fear and anger.

I do not believe your last statement is correct and can be substantiated, in fact, to use your expression "blended-in" secular Jews did quite well in pre WW2 era. For example most popular and commercially successful polish language poets were in fact ethnic Jews (Tuwim, Slonimski). I would think their commercial success is indicative of attitudes at that time - as Stephen Colbert says: 'market has spoken'.
Antisemitism in last 70 years, was largely fuelled by perceived collaboration of portion of Jewish population with Soviet and later Soviet sponsored communist authorities. That was one of the factors that led to pogrom of Jewish population at Jedwabne within the days after Soviet administration was replaced with German one in 1941.
The myth of Soviet supporting Jew was perpetuated for political reasons by both communist administration from 1968 onward and by right-wing populist groups until this day.
This stereotype was sadly as effective in Poland in inducing irrational fear and prejudice as "muslim-terrorist" stereotype was in the West.

Most of those in Poland who collaborated with the Soviets were not Jews. Settling scores against Jews by their neighbours was quite spontaneous in many places in Eastern Europe when the Germans marched in. Poland is special in that the killing of Jews continued even after the war.

Any nationalism is by definition prone to lapses into paranoid delusions about neighboring countries and ethnic groups that in the mind of a nationalist may potentially victimize his kind and therefore justify aggression towards those groups or countries. Best example of this kind of nationalist reasoning is Hitler's propaganda in Germany. Generally aggressors tend to denigrate, devalue and dehumanize their victims and often claim to be victims of those who they attack.
I would, however disagree, that any discussion about history (presumably conducted in Poland or with participation of the Poles)often undertakes tone determined by such nationalistic emotions.
The very real fact of the ethnic groups living between the regimes of Hitler and Stalin having been victimized by those regimes cannot be excluded from discussions about history and does not automatically imply that an aggressive nationalistic point of view is being presented.

"Settling scores against Jews by their neighbours was quite spontaneous in many places in Eastern Europe when the Germans marched in." This sentence seems to put the emphasis on supposed "spontaneity" of these act of violence. This approach explains little, just as it would be of little informative value to point out the "spontaneity" of the 2012 mass shootings in the US: "Sixteen US Mass Shootings Happened in 2012, Leaving at Least 88 Dead"http://www.thenation.com/blog/171774/fifteen-us-mass-shootings-happened-...
The information of timing coinciding with marching in of Germans points out to circumstances where the rule of law collapsed and it was understood that there were no consequences for the killings, and not only no attempts by authorities in power to stop them, but their encouragement and rewards for committing the crimes. Likewise the end of the Second World War did not bring back the rule of law into Poland, a country occupied and run by the Soviet Union and their military and secret police (NKVD)troops. The soviet authorities could have easily prevented the 1946 Kielce massacre from happening, as it was clear for more than a week, that anti-Semite rubble was gathering in the proximity of the shelter for displaced Jews. Not only they did not make a single attempt to prevent it, but as it is now known, for many days they had employed provocateurs to spread anti-Semite rumors.

The same with Jews. "Jews were and are only the Victims". Everyone who reads something more than daily newspaper, knows, there are plenty of examples for jewish attrocities, not only in modern times, but also in the past. I am waiting for movies about that.

jubus, you might need to learn a bit of Farsi or Arabic, but you can spend your days watching "examples for Jewish atrocities, not only in modern times, but also in the past." I suppose, it won't matter to you if the stories are apocryphal; you already know Jews are liars and monsters.

You are, of course, ignoring that there was a low grade civil war in Poland, with no properly functioning system to maintain law and order. Ethnic Poles were also killed after the war, including by Jews who did so as members of the Soviet installed communist regime. That is also particular to Poland, that ethnic Poles continued to be murdered.

"A discussion about the film could be cathartic, but some comments (mostly about the history of Polish-Jewish relations, not about the film itself) in the articles of the three magazines are abominable: “Many [Polish] peasants had nothing to eat during the [Nazi] occupation” so stealing from a wandering Jew who often had jewels or cash was a way to enrich themselves. They even come close to denying the historical facts established about the role of Poles in the massacre that serves as inspiration for Pokłosie: “Until today, who knows what happened in that barn in Jedwabne? The film Pokłosie shows only one version, the most vicious and toughest for us, Poles.”
Wouldn't it be better not to quote sentences taken out of context and without giving the specific source? I bet the author, who has already proven in the previous version of the article to have no good command of Polish language, and to make superficial assumptions that suite his/her preconceived theses has seriously misunderstood the articles an the messages they tried to further.

Obviously, just as the magazines covers were not spreading the anti-Semitic propaganda, as the author of the above article originally thought, but rather were a sarcastic portrayal of anticipated reactions to the aggressive advertising of the movie "Poklosie", the articles inside these magazines likely did not seriously make such repulsive statements as quoted above.

I don't know where the "nothing to eat" quote came from, however the one questioning Jedwabne came from Wprost. I don't read Wprost regularly so I cannot comment if it is generally right- or left-leaning, however that copy I bought and was appalled by what I read inside. The first article was about Stuhr and Poklosie and heavily biased against it lacking any objectivity and deliberately omitting crucial scenes and characters from the film to support their POV. This was followed by the article which indirectly questioned Jedwabne. Then, the third article, was a multi-page spread on how our young patriotic Poles are turning ever more to right-wing organizations and the piece nearly lionized the founders of these movements. After that third article I think I threw up a bit in my mouth.

Why don't you throw in a link, so we can judge for ourselves, as you describe in detail your state of mind (and stomack), but are rather cryptic about the contents of "Wprost" articles.
To those, who do not speak Polish, I do not, however, recommend using Google Translate function, which the mysterious author of the above "Economist" article might have used. It may give one a general idea of the subject, but will miss on any subtleties in meaning, as the translation of the collective response of unknown authors to Maciek Stuhr's take on history proves:

""When Kara Mustafa famous leader of the Knights
He led his legions across the Alps to Krakow
To defend its borders, being always eager,
Grunwald beat him King Stefan Batory.
And he was adamant, hard as a rock,
Given the standard of the prophet in one fell swoop,
Chased by the full force of ten hours of horses
Enemies fleeing to Macedonia
Where the Queen Pompadour, the great lady of virtue,
Visited him at home for four Saturdays.
A son of the famous chemist Alexander the Great,
Gave him the armor of three gold loops.

Meanwhile, the Sahara, the country's famous fur
He preached his teachings Dr. Martin Luther.
While there honestly pen and pronunciation,
He was killed along with Homer's Night Bartłomiejową,
Which is to show the power of his tyranny,
Queen Mary Stuart arranged an in Denmark.
August VIII, King of Saxony, called Solomon
Believing that it will defeat the queen unworthy,
But betrayed prematurely in bad fate turn,
Slavery graced Cape Hope.
Venetians and looking hostile eye
They killed him in Mexico with Captain Kok.

At this time in Hungary on the royal throne
Aristotle sat after Napoleon.
I hurried as quickly as possible, with your brave army
To the relief of Chinese troops, which became at Troy.
There, in defense of the Christians so much famous.
that Marx - The papal nuncio - bless him.

It was a time of polar expeditions Copernicus
Steamer which toured the earth at the equator.
Columbus and the socialist, measuring the world ends
He discovered that the Earth revolves around the Sun.
Pythagoras, the German federal state senator,
He went on the balloon to the paradise
Donoszący the Romans Markus Klinis Caius,
Zakadził them properly, that's and that - Finis. "

the original article was published prior to December 27th, well before Christmas.

The present, greately improved version, is still far from objective, informed relation. I - or anyone - could write in detail why, repeating the points made in the comments to the previous, outrageous version. The valid, informed comments which has been discarded together with the previous attempt by A.h.

Do you really intend to self-ruin the last bastion of what was once in Poland widely admired 'British journalism'?

Władysław Pasikowski, the director of Pokłosie, has just begun making another movie called Jack Strong. It will be about Ryszard Kuklinski, CIA codename Jack Strong, the Polish cold war spy who handed the CIA approx 35000 pages os secret documents during communism.

This director is digging deep, but he is not anti-polish, better call him controversial.

The last article was shot to pieces with perfectly valid and civilized arguments, so why did you remove it with all the relevant comments?

This new, "amended" version is hardly amended enough, so please expect the same comments to be repeated. One of these was a comparison to the 1941 German anti-Polish film called "Heimkehr", which could be described as no less "controversial" than "Poklosie". Indeed, in many respects this "amended" article is still no less "controversial".

If you don't understand what I'm saying, I'm sure many other people who know a little more history than the average punter will, as before (or even in greater detail), explain.

Because this article is probalby THE ORDERED ONE. Ordered by jewish antisemites from US, Israel or any Western European country with big "jewish minority". Real Jewry was exterminated during the war, by Germans, naturally and partly survived in USSR and Palestine British Mandate (majority of them, were in fact, Jewish emigration from Poland).
The biggest enemy of the Jew is another Jew, it's clear fact which I read many times in the old, pre-war, polish-jewish newspapers.

Neither Pasikowski, nor Maciej Stuhr, nor the Polish minister of "culture" Zdrojewski, nor Putin (the latter two being sponsors of this vile piece of agitprop) are Jews. So I seriously think you're barking up the wrong tree.

What an idiotic article. Maybe TE should write about REAL ANTISEMITISM, not the ilusionary one. Real anti-semitism and real racism is flourishing in Western Europe, mainly among the left-wingers (nazism, in fact, is left-wing ideology). Lublin, where I live, was beeing called "Jerusalem of the North" or "European Jerusalem", one might search, why. There is no problem with Jews in Poland, but we have big problem with "jewish revisionists" who wants to spit on Poland and Polish Jews, who were murdered in German death and concentration camps. The biggest "anti-semites" are in fact, American Jews, who spit on Israel and backed Nazis, especially big, jewish banks from NY (and Wall Street generally).
So, dear Polish editor, don't write such rubbish, that Poland is anti-semitic country, Britain, France, Germany, Netherlands or Sweden and especially USA, are far, far, far more xenophobic, especially the left-wing oriented people and "false Jews".

Seriously, Lublin a safe place for Jews? Ever heard about the antisemitic posters attacking Tomasz Pietrasiewicz, head of the educational NGO Brama Grodzka posted all over Lublin last year? Or bricks thrown into his apartment? Or swastika sprayed on the car of dr Dariusz Libionka of Majdanek Memorial? Jerusalem of the North is a thing of the past, and mind you, every second city or town in prewar Poland was called Jerusalem by its Jewish residents. Please get over your pathetic antisemitic propaganda and look around in your own city before you point fingers at Western Europe.

If someone gets bricks thrown into his apartment or a swastika sprayed on his car, I can only sympathise. No doubt about it. Moreover, I do not intend to defend jubus that much, because his posts tend to be much too aggressive. But I would also add that we do not actually know who the perpetrators of those acts of violence were and that, as far as I know, neither Pietraszewicz nor Libionka are actually Jews. Perhaps those acts of violence were also acts of propaganda? And perhaps, to paraphrase jubus, the greatest enemies of Poles are other Poles?

It doesn't matter if either of them is Jewish or not. If someone posts images of a person with star of David painted on his forehead in order to slander him you call this antisemitism because the message is: Jew=bad guy. Same applies to using the word Polak as an insult etc. etc. You call this labelling. This is basic social psychology. Propaganda? Yes anti-Jewish propaganda, combined with physical violence. In Western Europe such acts are prosecuted with all seriousness. Not in Lublin though.

Describing an entire Polish village of complicity in the Jewish Holocaust or even anti-Semitism is also an act of anti-Polonism because it is contrary to undeniable facts, such as those that the participation of the majority of the Polish inhabitants in any village in any holocaust atrocity was never recorded, that for centuries Polish inhabited territories provided the preferred or even only European refuge for the greatest number of Jews, that prior to the Second World War Poland had the largest population of Jews in the Europe, that in German occupied Europe only Poles, including their entire families, even the children, suffered the punishment of death for harbouring Jews and that (quite naturally if you bear the above facts in mind) according to Yad Vashem, the greatest number of righteous among the nations were Poles. I'm not saying that conflicts between some Poles and Jews did not exist in the last two centuries but everything has to be put in its proper context and we should have at least an elementary sense of proportion. After the war, accusing Poles of anti-Semitism was a particularly effective propaganda weapon of far more anti-Semitic Moscow (and it clearly still feels it is today), but the West has also traditionally been much more anti-Semitic (and it still is today), therefore your attack on the Lublin region to defend the West is very wrong. And deeply insulting to the memory of people such as the Kowalski family.

Maybe you should write mora about anti-Polish propaganda. Showing Poles or any other community, living in pre-war Poland, as "German allies" is not only anti-polonism, but disgusting anti-semitism. You can write that "Polish Jews helped Germans in killing Hungarian or Ukrainian Jews". Both statements are in the same way non-sense.
Write the truth, no the propaganda.

Seriously? The amount of historical myths you offer is an insult to sane mind. Please do your homework and read recent works of Polish historians: B. Engelking Boni "Jest taki piękny słoneczny dzień" and J. Grabowski "Judenjagd" which are evidence based cases studies of complicity of Polish peasants in the Holocaust. EOT.

From Gdansk: The fact that Poland was a safe shelter for Jews for almost 1000 years doesn't contradict the antisemitism and complicity of some Poles in the Holocaust, sadly. I agree with you about seeing things in proper context and its German occupation which fueled antisemitism during the war. The Holocaust was a German and not Polish project. I bet I know more Righteous among the Nations as you b/c of my work, and trust me - talking about antisemitism in Poland is not an offense to them at all. On the contrary -- many of them did rescue Jews against their own Polish neighbors, some of who feared for life, and others were antisemitic. There is quite a lot literature about it eg. J. Leociak, Ratowanie. Opowieści Żydów i Polaków. For the record I am sorry you misread my response about Lublin. Why an attack? I gave Jubus some solid evidence about antisemitic attacks in his own town (obviously he doesn't get it, and it seems he hates Mr. Pietrasiewicz too, nice, huh?) The fact that Brama Grodzka is there is a very positive one.

Don't write such rubbish, if you don't have accurate date.
I know, what were "polish crimes against Jews". You don't have to teach somebody who has probably, bigger knowledge than you.
I know everything about Brama Grodzka, I won't say anything negative about it. But you must distinguish between, pro-Jewish, pro-Poland stance (I consider "Polish Jews" as part of the whole "Great nation of Poland", unlike many of the so called nationalists, from NOP or ONR, who made those idiotic things in Lublin, majority of them were young idiots)and between, "pseudo-Polish, anti-Jew" stance. You should learn more about "jewish anti-polonism" made by "false Jews" who have never been of jewish descent, nor religion, but only used "anti-semitism" to earn some money.

I never denied there was such thing as Polish anti-Semitism, which indeed played a certain role in politics at the turn of the 20th century, peaked in the 1930s and then again in the 1950s, 60s and 70s. I would only add that it was always matched by Jewish anti-Polonism and saying which came first is as pointless as the chicken-egg question. What I strongly object to is the quite false implication that Polish anti-Semitism had anything to do with the Holocaust.

You have to accept that "anti-Semitism" is a blanket term that has more often than not been highly misleading. It usually means anti-Jewish, because it doesn't really apply to the Arabs, Palestinians, Philistines, Moabites or Ammonites. More importantly, in different countries, cultures and ideologies it means very different things. Although we can generally accept that being anti-anyone is ugly and wrong, we cannot say it always inevitably leads to genocide. I'd argue that Polish anti-Semitism (resulting from very specific social, economic and political issues of the late 19th and 20th century) was never as lethal as the traditional anti-Semitism of the West, and certainly not genocidal like the totalitarian ideologies of Marxism Leninism and Nazism.

This is the big lie which you seem to subscribe to. Because if you say that many Poles were anti-Semites, I'd have to agree. And if you said that during the war Poles murdered Jews, I'd also have to agree. But would be quite wrong to infer that these two undeniable facts were somehow connected. During the war there were opportunistic criminals called szmalcowniks. These people committed heinous crimes not because of any ideology or specific anti-Semitism, but because the opportunity was there. In fact they were anti-everyone. On the other hand, you had the pre-war anti-Semite Zofia Kossak-Szczucka, who during the war was one of the founders of the Żegota organisation. As Irena Sendler would say, the world is ultimately divided into good and bad people. She herself was never really religious, but she would never let a bad word be said about the RC Church in Poland during WWII. She knew much better than almost anyone anyone else the crucial role Catholic orphanages played in saving the lives of Jewish children. She knew of the incredible risks and she also understood the crucial importance of secrecy and discretion at all times, even after the war.

I don't have any dates, I am married ;-) Not saying anything negative about Brama Grodzka? Dude stop contradicting yourself. This morning you called Tomasz Pietrasiewicz " anti-polish, anti-jewish, nationalist. He is typical "jewish anti-semite", unloyal to the place, where he lives". Please stop contradicting yourself and speaking not on the subject. EOT here as well.

To continue, the history of Polish-Jewish relations is extremely rich and complex. Of course, the history of the Jewish nation is much older than ours, but over the last millennium or so it has been intertwined and in some respects surprisingly similar: both surrounded by very hostile neighbours, internally deeply divided into diverse fractions, often into those who insist on taking the high moral ground (much higher than anyone else on earth) and others who insist on sinking below the lowest depths of human iniquity. This, I suppose is our "style". Thus for every Korczak there's a Rumkowski (both Jews with very similar backgrounds), for every Polish blue police functionary there was more more than one Jewish ghetto police functionary (and who's to say which one was worse?),for every szmacownik there was a Jewish member of Group 13 and organiser of Hotel Polski, and so on. But we should always concentrate more on the positive people, because it is their behaviour that we should follow.

I don't know what your views are on Menachem Begin, but this corporal of the Polish Army deserted Ander's II Corps with some other Jews when it was stationed in the British Mandate of the Palestine in 1943. Other Polish Jews went on to fight for our glorious cause, thus the 1944 overnight Schultz-Konarski collaboration in producing the most patriotic eastern Kresy Polish anthem ever: Red Poppies on Monte Cassino. And the fact of the matter is we really love our Jews. Marian Hemar for instance, and Antoni Słonimski and Brzechwa, and Tuwin and Jastrun and Henryk Wars, Adam Aston and many, many others, where would our (and not only our) culture be without them?!

It's no longer a problem that some of them at certain times were total ..., aren't we all sometimes? That problem really died out with the likes of Yitzhak Shamir. Or perhaps it continues to a lesser extent with Adam Michnik, who continues the mission of his anti-Polish, Stalinist father and half brother, and perhaps Polish useful idiots such as Maciej Stuhr and Pasikowski. But generally the truth will out that Poles and Jews are natural allies.

This is indeed a fascinating and in some ways edifying subject. Above all it's vast. Plenty of room for research for everyone, even the wife of a communist informant (Michal Boni) who only had the "courage" to own up once law required him to do so before becoming a member of the current ... Polish government. But please don't tell me to my homework, the subject is impossibly large, you don't know my age, you don't what books I've read and you don't know my family history.

I didn't mean Tomasz Pietrasiewcz but his brother, Szymon, who acted like lefty idiot, some time ago, inventing "anti-racist tickets". Lublin spent only a lot of cash on this idiocy. In my opinion, there is no problem with "antisemitic or nationalist" people in Lublin. We have a lot of idiots on both sides, including Szymon Pietrasiwicz and those idiots who from "right side".http://www.kurierlubelski.pl/artykul/703731,geje-i-zydzi-na-biletach-jak...