Legacy Breaking Fights

Before I broach the broader topic here I wanted to make a specific case of a hypothetical legacy breaking fight. Some (such as BRF) may argue that Weidman vs Silva was a legacy breaking fight for Silva, but I would argue that there is a potential fight that may be nearing that would do much more to damage the legacy of the Spider than Weidman. If Silva is able to recapture his middleweight crown and Machida is able to defeat Vitor or another big name opponent, then the stars seem to be aligned for this fight to take place. Granted Silva has said multiple times he wouldn't take the fight, recently Machida said he would. If nothing else at least humor me and consider the ramifications of such a fight.

A potential showdown between the long time training partners could go a long way to diminish Anderson's legacy. If Machida were to beat Silva, it would bolster the argument of pundits who over the years have claimed that Anderson has greatly benefited from comparatively weaker competition in the MW division. It could also be argued that the decision by Machida to compete as a LHW instead of a MW protected Anderson from the greatest threat to his incredibly dominant rein as MW kingpin. Of course it is entirely possible for Weidman to beat Anderson in the rematch and also possible for Anderson to defeat Machida if they ever fought. But if their paths ever did cross and Machida was victorious the arguments against Anderson's legacy would certainly become significantly more credible.

Can anyone else think of potential fights that could be legacy breakers?

I don't think Anderson's legacy can be damaged even if he loses his next 3 fights. Same with GSP.
Just look at Chuck, he was getting ko'd left right and center before retiring but is still considered one of the greatest

I don't think it is possible to ruin anyone's legacy. No matter what, they were regarded as one of the greatest for a reason. They proved themselves, and that's what matters. Every fighter has a downward slope, it happens to the greatest, and always will. Fedor, Liddel, Penn.... They all had that downward turn where they lost repeatedly. But they're still some of the greatest of all time, and always will be.

I don't think Anderson's legacy can be damaged even if he loses his next 3 fights. Same with GSP.
Just look at Chuck, he was getting ko'd left right and center before retiring but is still considered one of the greatest

I agree that Anderson could go on to lose multiple fights in a row without any damage being done to his legacy. However a loss to Machida would be different than a loss to 5 other fighters in a row. If he loses to Machida, he loses to a fighter who could have been competing at MW all along but chose to compete at LHW. In a sense he would have been protected by the choice of a teammate which would bring into question how long was he really the best 185 lber in the world.

I don't think Anderson's legacy can be damaged even if he loses his next 3 fights. Same with GSP.
Just look at Chuck, he was getting ko'd left right and center before retiring but is still considered one of the greatest

I don't think it is possible to ruin anyone's legacy. No matter what, they were regarded as one of the greatest for a reason. They proved themselves, and that's what matters. Every fighter has a downward slope, it happens to the greatest, and always will. Fedor, Liddel, Penn.... They all had that downward turn where they lost repeatedly. But they're still some of the greatest of all time, and always will be.

The difference between Silva and the great list of fighters you mentioned, is that Silva, by a lot of people's standards, is the greatest ever. Best MMA fighter in history by many estimations. I've always been a supporter of the idea that Silva has dominated a weak divison and as a result I've never shared this philosophy that he is P4P king.

That said, I think taking a beating at the hands of a top fighter coming out of a historically more competitive division would likely take him off people's list as the best ever. It wouldn't change the fact that he is the most dominant champion the UFC has ever seen and will likely ever see again, but it may change how people percieve that title reign.

Anderson legacy is intact. People that don't think he is one of the greatest ever are fools. There is a short list for a GOAT and Anderson is on that list and always will be. Fighters peak and decline at different times, this happens in all forms of combat sports. Have we seen the end of AS run? We will find out soon enough. If he loses again, then he will be on the down slide and his best days are behind him, but his name on the GOAT list will always be there.

It seems as if Legacies take a whole career to build, but one or three fights towards the end can somehow nullify all those accomplishments. Riculous of course, but it sure doesn't stop people from spewing such nonsense. Some legacies are untouchable as listed above. Others such as The Ageless Warrior B-hop are still being written. 49 and still going strong!

Before I broach the broader topic here I wanted to make a specific case of a hypothetical legacy breaking fight. Some (such as BRF) may argue that Weidman vs Silva was a legacy breaking fight for Silva, but I would argue that there is a potential fight that may be nearing that would do much more to damage the legacy of the Spider than Weidman. If Silva is able to recapture his middleweight crown and Machida is able to defeat Vitor or another big name opponent, then the stars seem to be aligned for this fight to take place. Granted Silva has said multiple times he wouldn't take the fight, recently Machida said he would. If nothing else at least humor me and consider the ramifications of such a fight.

A potential showdown between the long time training partners could go a long way to diminish Anderson's legacy. If Machida were to beat Silva, it would bolster the argument of pundits who over the years have claimed that Anderson has greatly benefited from comparatively weaker competition in the MW division. It could also be argued that the decision by Machida to compete as a LHW instead of a MW protected Anderson from the greatest threat to his incredibly dominant rein as MW kingpin. Of course it is entirely possible for Weidman to beat Anderson in the rematch and also possible for Anderson to defeat Machida if they ever fought. But if their paths ever did cross and Machida was victorious the arguments against Anderson's legacy would certainly become significantly more credible.

Can anyone else think of potential fights that could be legacy breakers?

I agree that Anderson could go on to lose multiple fights in a row without any damage being done to his legacy. However a loss to Machida would be different than a loss to 5 other fighters in a row. If he loses to Machida, he loses to a fighter who could have been competing at MW all along but chose to compete at LHW. In a sense he would have been protected by the choice of a teammate which would bring into question how long was he really the best 185 lber in the world.

Nah, the argument that if Machida went to 185 earlier he would have beat Silva is weak imo since nobody knows what would have happened. He looked great against Munoz true, but I think Anderson probably would have too.

Nah, the argument that if Machida went to 185 earlier he would have beat Silva is weak imo since nobody knows what would have happened. He looked great against Munoz true, but I think Anderson probably would have too.

I'm not arguing that Machida will win if they do fight, nor am I arguing anything based on Machida's performance against Munoz. I am only commentating on the ramifications of the potential match up of Machida and Anderson. If that fight happens Anderson will have won the rematch with Weidman which will give many people the perspective that Anderson is still at the top of or near the top of his game. That in turn would make for a fight with a lot on the line in terms of Anderson's history in the division given the fact that Machida easily could have been competing in the MW division all this time and many people wanted to see that fight for years.

The difference between Silva and the great list of fighters you mentioned, is that Silva, by a lot of people's standards, is the greatest ever. Best MMA fighter in history by many estimations. I've always been a supporter of the idea that Silva has dominated a weak divison and as a result I've never shared this philosophy that he is P4P king.

That said, I think taking a beating at the hands of a top fighter coming out of a historically more competitive division would likely take him off people's list as the best ever. It wouldn't change the fact that he is the most dominant champion the UFC has ever seen and will likely ever see again, but it may change how people percieve that title reign.

Fedor was considered the greatest ever during his run, and now that he has had his downward slope, he is simply one of the greatest. They can't be the greatest forever, there will always be someone in the future to outshine them.

I agree that Anderson could go on to lose multiple fights in a row without any damage being done to his legacy. However a loss to Machida would be different than a loss to 5 other fighters in a row. If he loses to Machida, he loses to a fighter who could have been competing at MW all along but chose to compete at LHW. In a sense he would have been protected by the choice of a teammate which would bring into question how long was he really the best 185 lber in the world.

Machida has trained with Silva extensively, and therefore knows all of his secrets. How could we be certain that without knowing all of this, Machida would still be able to beat Silva? Also, if Silva is on his downward slope, how can we be sure Machida would have won when Silva was in his prime?

Pfft, it happens all the time. If Weidman beats Silva or Machida beats Silva its gonna be the Silva was overrated crap just like it was with BJ Penn when he lost to Edgar twice even though those guys dominated the division for YEARS. Look at Tito, that guy has done so much for the sport and his "legacy" seems tarnished forever because he has hung on too long. Same with Rampage. Even Chuck Liddell gets a little legacy tarnish every now and then because his opponents weren't really "the best" at the time - even though he's the most popular UFC fighter of all time and one of the most dominating figures ever who put the sport of MMA on the map. We live in a strange world nowadays when it comes to sports in general where we don't celebrate athletes anymore, we feel the need to put everything under a microscope and find something negative. The days of epic historic legacies that guys like Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Mike Tyson or Muhummad Ali have don't happen. You got players like Peyton Manning/Kobe Bryant/Lebron James, guys who obviously are the MVPs of their entire teams and people will still find something negative about their game or something they'd done (eg. Peyton only has 1 superbowl so he's not as good as Eli, Kobe Bryant takes 30 shots/game so he's selfish (while hitting 45%), Lebron James has old man Wade and small big man Bosh on his team so somehow that's the only reason the Heat win titles). Imagine if Mike Tyson or Muhummad Ali were popular in current times...there's no way in hell they'd ever go down as the great boxing figures ever with Mike's prison sentence and the losses he experienced late in his career or Ali's brashness/confidence which everyone just calls being cocky or fake now (Jon Jones anyone?).

In any case, enough of the rant, to answer your question I don't think there are any true "legacy breaking fights" on the horizon. The champs of BW/FW/WW/LHW have done more than enough to etch their place in history. Cruz was pretty unbeatable outside of a few close decisions and Aldo/GSP/Jones have been dominating top talent for years. Even if Anderson loses to Weidman and loses the next 5 fights. There's just no way you can say Anderson isn't the best fighter in history still, he has fought the best middleweights around for a long time and completely dominated the division for 6 years. Sure a new crop of middleweights could come in and beat him, but he's 38 years old, that's not an excuse, it's a biological fact that age should hold him back physically at some point....he still dominated the very best of a division for 6 YEARS. Franklin, Hendo, Belfort are MMA legends and he disposed of them pretty easily for the level of fighters they are (highly doubt you can find anyone that could beat those 3 like that). If Weidman holds the belt for half that time we can start putting him up on the pedestal that Silva is on. Outside of those guys the title holders haven't really held on long enough to consider anything a "legacy". Like even if Barao loses to Cruz are we really going to jump on Barao and say he sucks with the wins he's got in the UFC? Highly doubtful. You'd have to be a complete ignoramus to think it. Which I'm sure there are some in here that are capable of it.

Fedor was considered the greatest ever during his run, and now that he has had his downward slope, he is simply one of the greatest. They can't be the greatest forever, there will always be someone in the future to outshine them.

Right! But how would people remember him without that embarassing skid at the end ofhis career? What if he retired with his mystique intact? Going from THE greatest ever to ONE of the greatest ever is a step down. A small one, but it's like going from Champion to the Top 5.

Every fighter is going to have a prime and eventually will be knocked off the pedestal. Same will happen with Jon Jones, Jose Aldo, GSP, Cain and everyone else. There is always a young hungry fighter out there ready to take away the glory.

Every fighter is going to have a prime and eventually will be knocked off the pedestal. Same will happen with Jon Jones, Jose Aldo, GSP, Cain and everyone else. There is always a young hungry fighter out there ready to take away the glory.

Injuries pile up, speed/strength and quickness eventually go.

That's my thing. When I look back I fighters I do look at the overall record but focus on them in their prime. For example Matt Hughes. He was never the most well rounded fighter and had some bad losses at the end of his career but look at him in his prime. He was then the best WW on the planet and nobody can dispute that and till this day the only person that is better all time at 170 is GSP.

Right! But how would people remember him without that embarassing skid at the end ofhis career? What if he retired with his mystique intact? Going from THE greatest ever to ONE of the greatest ever is a step down. A small one, but it's like going from Champion to the Top 5.

Even if Fedor had retired before ever losing, he would still have gone from greatest ever to one of the greatest ever. Anderson Silva would have taken the title greatest ever upon Fedor's retirement, and now that Silva is potentially losing the title, it is going to pass to someone else soon. GSP, Jones, Aldo, ect. Someone else will be the greatest "ever." Which, I put in quotes, because the greatest ever is really just the greatest of the present.