Evasion and protection, I agree. Defense, not really. A Rust Scarab/Water Elemental is not a good defensive return for the mana investment.

Of course it is! All you need is a blocker. Something to help you win the race, and preserve your life total while you're crashing in for the win. It can attack for 8 unblockable damage on your turn, and then be available to block Heroes and Koth Elementals and whatever else you need on your turn. I think it's pretty much the perfect control finisher. Especially since the creature is unkillable in the cube.

Evasion and protection, I agree. Defense, not really. A Rust Scarab/Water Elemental is not a good defensive return for the mana investment.

you know it can change its power and toughness, right? and you can block and blink to survive any attacker. so it pretty much blanks any single attacker and bashes for 8 each cycle. that's... pretty good.

Did a bit of testing with it and quite happy with it. The funny thing is that at first, I assumed that it costed 5UU with its blink ability costing U and it wasn't bad even in that scenario. It was really hard to kill and a pretty big annoyance for the other deck to deal with but even when cast at 6, if the other deck didn't have an immediate answer, it was typically one of those "Well, now what do I do against that thing?"

I think I still value Sphinx of Jar-Jar higher. He is so thrustworhty. A lot of decks just cannot handle a big flying shroud creature.

To be as thrustworhty I would need to have 7 mana to play this guy.

Sure this guy can bash for 8, but he dodges removal by not dealing combat damage, which kind of sucks. I understand that he has the big upside of surviving Wraths but generally you are the one playing those anyway.

I still open to cubing it, but I like my shroud Sphinx, will my cube partner has a sweet spot for Consecrated Sphinx. As we only have limited room for blue finishers finding a cut we agree on will be hard.

Sphinx of Jwar doesn't have versatility to it, I don't even think it's a competitor. You cast it (or cheat it into play) then it beats until they're dead or you're dead. Can't block if you're attacking and dies to wrath. Plus it'll get chumped by flying tokens.

4/5 is huge. But even if you're blocking something that's bigger than that, you can always either pump the toughness to avoid trample damage, or simply pay U to remove him before damage.

Leatherback Baloth is "huge". Palinchron without flying is not. Mana cost matters when evaluating P/T. Also, any removal spell on the 'Ling means he has to flicker or die, something that is not true for a creature with actual Shroud/Hexproof. Not to mention that you can't "always" pump him, especially on the turn he comes down.

you know it can change its power and toughness, right? and you can block and blink to survive any attacker. so it pretty much blanks any single attacker and bashes for 8 each cycle. that's... pretty good.

Defense matters most on the first turn you drop this guy, when you are unlikely to have mana to pump him. And again, you have to compare him against other 7 drops in terms of defense, which I already did above, and he's the worst of any commonly run 7-drop in terms of defensive board presence. "Bashes for 8 each cycle" is not part of defense, I already stated that he is good on offense.

If all I was getting was a 4/5 for 7 mana, ya. It would be a bad blocker. But when you have an 8-power unblockable attacker AND a 4/5 blocker in one unkillable package, that's tremendous value for the mana.

Leatherback Baloth is "huge". Palinchron without flying is not. Mana cost matters when evaluating P/T. Also, any removal spell on the 'Ling means he has to flicker or die, something that is not true for a creature with actual Shroud/Hexproof. Not to mention that you can't "always" pump him, especially on the turn he comes down.

Defense matters most on the first turn you drop this guy, when you are unlikely to have mana to pump him. And again, you have to compare him against other 7 drops in terms of defense, which I already did above, and he's the worst of any commonly run 7-drop in terms of defensive board presence. "Bashes for 8 each cycle" is not part of defense, I already stated that he is good on offense.

Still don't like him more than morphling, but the point I think they're making is that he bashes in for 8 AND blocks and lives. What makes him so good, which I think you not quite getting (not trying to insult, just based on what I see) is that he performs something that none of you other finishers do, which is to defend and attack both at the same time with a single card. No matter what stage your in, he's not a bad pull. He put's your opponent on a very serious clock, while keeping a blocker up to significantly slow down your opponents clock (where if they're aggro and your life is low, is really what you want).

Part I like worst about him is that his pseudo-viglance and protection are in the same ability, makes it rough and easier to deal with than morphling :(.

I think I still value Sphinx of Jar-Jar higher. He is so thrustworhty. A lot of decks just cannot handle a big flying shroud creature.

To be as thrustworhty I would need to have 7 mana to play this guy.

Sure this guy can bash for 8, but he dodges removal by not dealing combat damage, which kind of sucks. I understand that he has the big upside of surviving Wraths but generally you are the one playing those anyway.

Or even worse, if you need it on defense, a removal spell gets rid of AEtherling for one turn and that might just be enough, considering it is a seven-drop. That is my main issue with the card actually, it will eventually win the game if they don't have Icy Manipulator or something, but can you actually stabilize with it?

If all I was getting was a 4/5 for 7 mana, ya. It would be a bad blocker. But when you have an 8-power unblockable attacker AND a 4/5 blocker in one unkillable package, that's tremendous value for the mana.

We are talking about his defensive value. I already said he gets 5 stars in the "offense" and "resilience" columns. FOR A 7 DROP, a 4/5 water elemental w/ vigilance and no other defensive ability is not a good defensive value.

In addition, he may be unkillable, but it is not super difficult to remove him as a blocker for a turn, and on turn 7, often that's all your opponent needs.

Still don't like him more than morphling, but the point I think they're making is that he bashes in for 8 AND blocks and lives. What makes him so good, which I think you not quite getting (not trying to insult, just based on what I see) is that he performs something that none of you other finishers do, which is to defend and attack both at the same time with a single card.

You can't be serious man. Frost Titan freezes a creature on attack, which is basically the same thing as blocking, but better in many circumstances (worse in a few). Wurmcoil Engine, Baneslayer Angel, and Griselbrand gain a ton of life on the attack, which is similar to blocking a large creature. Sheoldred reanimates a blocker every turn, and kills an opposing attacker every turn, all while attacking. Grave Titan makes two blockers on attack, Inferno Titan kills multiple guys on attack or kills them outright, Battlesphere can leave blockers behind on attack or kill the opponent outright, Elesh Norn cripples/kills the opposing team and pumps your own while attacking. I could keep going. Aetherling having vigilance is nice, but it still pales in defensive value to most other finishers in the cube.

This is the part of my post where I reiterate that Aetherling is a strong card and possibly worthy of inclusion, but there are definitely some things he doesn't do as well as other ~7 mana finishers.

We are talking about his defensive value. I already said he gets 5 stars in the "offense" and "resilience" columns. FOR A 7 DROP, a 4/5 water elemental w/ vigilance and no other defensive ability is not a good defensive value.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the defensive value is great, and will pretty much always be good enough defensively for the purposes I need in the cube.

If you're saying that the card would be bad if it had Defender, I'd agree with you. But to say that he's a bad defensive creature is a bit disingenuous, IMO. He brings reasonable defensive value as part of the whole package. Better defensive value than pretty much every other potential card you could be comparing it to (assuming that you want to be attacking with your finisher and you want it to be resilient).

there are definitely some things he doesn't do as well as other ~7 mana finishers.

It depends. All cards have their pros and cons when you compare them to one another. But if I was playing a dedicated blue control deck, classic draw-go, counters/wraths/drop a finisher and win style deck, this would be the finisher at the very top of my list. It does everything I want it to.

Or even worse, if you need it on defense, a removal spell gets rid of AEtherling for one turn and that might just be enough, considering it is a seven-drop. That is my main issue with the card actually, it will eventually win the game if they don't have Icy Manipulator or something, but can you actually stabilize with it?

I keep getting hung up on this fact when I think about him. At least he won't be an expensive card so getting one to test won't be so bad

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Imo this is the best blue creature that costs > 6 mana and I wouldn't mind running a single 7 drop in blue. However blue already has Upheaval, Karn (which technically is a colorless card, but very frequently ends up in the blue decks) and whatever big artifact creature you end up picking in the hope of opening a Tinker later.

I agree with this. Blue in Cube has shifted to be WAY more proactive than this discussion is acknowledging.

Upheaval and Karn aren't really at the proactive end of the spectrum but you have

You can't be serious man. Frost Titan freezes a creature on attack, which is basically the same thing as blocking, but better in many circumstances (worse in a few). Wurmcoil Engine, Baneslayer Angel, and Griselbrand gain a ton of life on the attack, which is similar to blocking a large creature. Sheoldred reanimates a blocker every turn, and kills an opposing attacker every turn, all while attacking. Grave Titan makes two blockers on attack, Inferno Titan kills multiple guys on attack or kills them outright, Battlesphere can leave blockers behind on attack or kill the opponent outright, Elesh Norn cripples/kills the opposing team and pumps your own while attacking. I could keep going. Aetherling having vigilance is nice, but it still pales in defensive value to most other finishers in the cube.

This is the part of my post where I reiterate that Aetherling is a strong card and possibly worthy of inclusion, but there are definitely some things he doesn't do as well as other ~7 mana finishers.

Thats what I don't get either..this isn't close to competing with most 6+ drops. The only reason I can figure for so much support is nostalgia for bygone days when Cube was dominated by Wrath control decks that locked the board and won with their single finisher (ie morphling).

That strategy has waned heavily and was never any fun besides. Aetherling isnt' going to revive it and no one I play with will be sorry about that. Honestly, I think Cube has been lucky the last few years that the game has been going in a different direction and the enormous refocusing this has brought about in Cube design.

That strategy has waned heavily and was never any fun besides. Aetherling isnt' going to revive it and no one I play with will be sorry about that. Honestly, I think Cube has been lucky the last few years that the game has been going in a different direction and the enormous refocusing this has brought about in Cube design.

Hard control and draw-go are fun decks, at least to me:sunny:I for one find it a bit sad that modern Magicis so creature and planes walker centered.

I still try to make them work, which has become harder then before. Mainly because the huge effect planes walkers have on the game. Wrathing the board away, doesn't actually clean the board these days. A Wrath that also kills walkers for 3WW would be appreciated.

I like playing draw-go control, and it's still good for us. And I'm exciting about putting a creature that's great in that decktype into the cube again.

Quote from Chisinf »

He isnt as impressive as the others if you play him on 6 but if you happen to play him with any mana open or untap with him, he is much more imposing.

Definitely. I'm going to slot it as a 7-drop during deckbuilding. It's a scary thing to resolve when it can protect itself in the same round.

Quote from Ausschliessi »

Well blue finishers have never been the best in creating an unfair board advantage when they hit the battlefield and in a normal U Control build I value it higher than Keiga, JwarJwar and Frost Titan at least (of course you can never be sure without testing).

Also, he is great with the Upheaval, Jokulhaups, Wildfire decks that my cube heavily supports and thus is the perfect card for my cube.

I agree with this as well. Blue has a lot of solid finishing options, but none that really blow me away. Consecrated Sphinx is a sick creature, but it's more of a CA engine with a P/T value than it is a true finisher. The rest of them are all serviceable, but don't excite me. I would be excited about resolving this creature.

I agree with this as well. Blue has a lot of solid finishing options, but none that really blow me away. Consecrated Sphinx is a sick creature, but it's more of a CA engine with a P/T value than it is a true finisher. The rest of them are all serviceable, but don't excite me. I would be excited about resolving this creature.

This is exactly how I feel. I never felt like the 6 CMC options like JJ Sphinx and Frost TItan were up to par for a cube finisher at 360. This guy might be the one I always wanted.