I'm actually glad Gaymer won, he deserved it more because he's the only one that didn't act all childish when everyone else did when they all retaliated against Big Fazeek. He is very mature minded for a young adult and I'm glad he got it. The other 2 just were not cut out for it.

Also you talk about not knowing what it's like to be surrounded by a plethora of bigots, funny you mention that. Because right now, you (and the others) are doing exactly that to me and anybody else who doesn't exactly like this seasons winner. You make assumptions then continue to attack and mock us. You get praise for this, because 98% of this Tester forum agrees with your views.

Now here comes the part where I put your system of thought to the test. Alright, you are all for equality right? You obviously want gays, blacks and everybody else in the world to be treated equally right? You want people to be tolerant to others lifestyles, and accept them like everybody else. You know for such a bold political statement, you sure seem to be selective on who gets this special treatment.

Lets just say for one moment I am the person you think I am (racist, bigoted etc etc). Based on your own feelings about equality and tolerance, how is it that you can treat me poorly because of my assumed political and personal views, while I am supposed to be tolerant of somebody elses lifestyle I don't agree with and can't say anything bad about them? If we are all supposed to be tolerant and treated fairly, then that should mean no matter what sexual orientation, skin color, political beliefs, religious beliefs etc etc etc I have, I should be equally tolerated as well. Instead I get mocked and harassed, of which is a acceptable thing to do by your standards.

Sadly, these views you (and millions of others) impose are selective. You cry out for equality and tolerance, yet anybody who you personally don't like, it is Ok for you to be intolerant and unequal to them. We are supposed to be tolerant and accepting of gays, yet it's Ok to be intolerant and bigoted to the person who has a more conservative political view.

The funny thing is, nowadays you can get this special treatment about everybody should be tolerant/accepting to your beliefs/lifestyle... as long as you are not a straight white conservative male. If somebody is a straight white conservative male, its Ok for people to be intolerant to them, it's ok if they get harassed, it's ok if people are racist and bigoted towards them, it's ok if they don't get all the same government assistance that non-white gay liberal males get

Deny it all you want, this isn't about true equality and tolerance, it's about pure HATE and resentment I won't even bring up the religious aspect to this, but lets just say according to your beliefs, its also Ok to be intolerant, racist, bigoted and hateful to somebody if they are Christian. And if they are a straight white Christian conservative male.. OH BOY! All bets are off.

The hypocrisy of the liberal attitude is mind boggling. It's all about telling other people what to do or think, then turning around and breaking your own rules. You want to know something interesting? Because of people like YOU and people with this liberal attitude, it is coming to the point where if somebody is a straight white male (extra points for being conservative or Christian) they are now becoming targets for harassment, bigotry and prejudice. And it is a acceptable thing to do in today's society. Just look at your response, you just assumed I hated blacks or anybody who is different and treated me as if that was the truth.

Pretty much what this all boils down to is that as long as you are not a white, straight, Christian, conservative male, you can be as bigoted, racist, intolerant and unequal all you want. And that these rules only apply to the above prerequisites.

First of all, I am sorry if you feel like my response was motivated by some sort of racial/religious vendetta. If it makes any difference, I too am Christian (Catholic) and I am also half-white (half-Irish, to be exact). That said, I never, *ever* made any negative statement about "straight white (Christian) males;" what I said is that this is the "criteria" that many conservatives (regardless of religious or ethnic background) hold, and anyone who doesn't conform to these standards yet achieved something in life must've done it either a) by way of Affirmative Action or b) because of "political correctness" (case in point, again, Vanessa Williams (Miss USA 1984) and Rima Fakih (current Miss USA)).

Second, I never mocked your politicals beliefs until you used it to explain why Gaymer shouldn't have won. You kept repeating the postulate that it is a liberal conspiracy that a gay gamer won, and as a gay person, I felt like I had to step up. I have achieved so much in life through hard work and determination; most of the people who know me in real life do *not* know I'm gay, just close friends. As for religious beliefs, I *never* once brought up "Christians" but you somehow did. I do not harbour anything against fellow Christians, regardless of their denomination (Protestants, Orthodox.. etc); I just dislike the deeply religious zealots, regardless of their religion (Christian/Muslims/Buddhist/Hindus.. etc). And you mocked my liberal views too, but you know what? That is okay, because even if I do not disagree with your views, I still respect your right to have them. Hell, you could believe in aliens too, just don't impose your views on others. And feel free to criticise me whenever; I might censure your opinion, but I'll NEVER censor it. One last thing, you assumed that, just because I'm liberal I am also automaticaly "anti-Christian," but it's only fair because I assumed you were somehow racist simply because you're a conservative. *That* I'm more than ready to apologise for, I stepped over the line with that one, I criticised you instead of your arguments, so while I will hold on to most of my arguments, I apologise for that particular part, but only because it was an ad hominem.

But moving on..

I will point out the irony of your accusing Gaymer of using the "minority card" yet at the same time you're using the "race card" in your canard; that somehow it is now acceptable to mock "conservative white people." It is not, and not once have I said anything against them (though technically it'd be redundant since, again, I am half-white). (Though technically legal by virtue of freedom of speech, it is socially unacceptable to mock people because of their background (be they white, black, Asian.. etc) and here, it is against the rules. Remember, this is a private establishment with its own set of rules; Freedom of Speech applies only to government and public forums (i.e. media) or where private establishment allows them (i.e. certain personal blogs).)

EDIT: I really hope this thread doesn't get shut down, because we've been arguing yet still complying with the rules. If something we're to happen, I'd be more than happy to continue the debate via PM or in another place.

EDIT: I really hope this thread doesn't get shut down, because we've been arguing yet still complying with the rules. If something we're to happen, I'd be more than happy to continue the debate via PM or in another place.

__________________________________________

~<3 kyacat from GS ~

(Yes, I do have that many trophies and yes, I am *that* fabulous.)

Whatever happens, I've never agreed with someone more right in my entire life. Keep fighting the good fight, good sir!

First of all, I am sorry if you feel like my response was motivated by some sort of racial/religious vendetta. If it makes any difference, I too am Christian (Catholic) and I am also half-white (half-Irish, to be exact). That said, I never, *ever* made any negative statement about "straight white (Christian) males;" what I said is that this is the "criteria" that many conservatives (regardless of religious or ethnic background) hold, and anyone who doesn't conform to these standards yet achieved something in life must've done it either a) by way of Affirmative Action or b) because of "political correctness" (case in point, again, Vanessa Williams (Miss USA 1984) and Rima Fakih (current Miss USA)).

Second, I never mocked your politicals beliefs until you used it to explain why Gaymer shouldn't have won. You kept repeating the postulate that it is a liberal conspiracy that a gay gamer won, and as a gay person, I felt like I had to step up. I have achieved so much in life through hard work and determination; most of the people who know me in real life do *not* know I'm gay, just close friends. As for religious beliefs, I *never* once brought up "Christians" but you somehow did. I do not harbour anything against fellow Christians, regardless of their denomination (Protestants, Orthodox.. etc); I just dislike the deeply religious zealots, regardless of their religion (Christian/Muslims/Buddhist/Hindus.. etc). And you mocked my liberal views too, but you know what? That is okay, because even if I do not disagree with your views, I still respect your right to have them. Hell, you could believe in aliens too, just don't impose your views on others. And feel free to criticise me whenever; I might censure your opinion, but I'll NEVER censor it. One last thing, you assumed that, just because I'm liberal I am also automaticaly "anti-Christian," but it's only fair because I assumed you were somehow racist simply because you're a conservative. *That* I'm more than ready to apologise for, I stepped over the line with that one, I criticised you instead of your arguments, so while I will hold on to most of my arguments, I apologise for that particular part, but only because it was an ad hominem.

But moving on..

I will point out the irony of your accusing Gaymer of using the "minority card" yet at the same time you're using the "race card" in your canard; that somehow it is now acceptable to mock "conservative white people." It is not, and not once have I said anything against them (though technically it'd be redundant since, again, I am half-white). (Though technically legal by virtue of freedom of speech, it is socially unacceptable to mock people because of their background (be they white, black, Asian.. etc) and here, it is against the rules. Remember, this is a private establishment with its own set of rules; Freedom of Speech applies only to government and public forums (i.e. media) or where private establishment allows them (i.e. certain personal blogs).)

EDIT: I really hope this thread doesn't get shut down, because we've been arguing yet still complying with the rules. If something we're to happen, I'd be more than happy to continue the debate via PM or in another place.

__________________________________________

~<3 kyacat from GS ~

(Yes, I do have that many trophies and yes, I am *that* fabulous.)

I have to admit, while we will probably never agree on certain things, I appreciate this post. With that said, I think I will say we should just agree to disagree.

But just to clear a few things up. The 'minority card' thing wasn't my bit, that was the OP saying that. I simply mentioned when Gaymer brought up the whole minority thing, that it irritated me.

Also when I was talking about Christians, I was simply stating what the gay liberal scene generally thinks of them (a generalized assumption if you will). That wasn't aimed directly at you (even though it seemed as if it was). I am not sure how many gay people you know, but typically they aren't going to be Christian since it specifically says in the Bible that being gay is wrong and shouldn't be done. Statistically, most gays are 100% against the Bible for this very reason. And this usually means they do not like Christians because a Christian person, by definition, will be against their lifestyle choice.thus making Christians a gay persons enemy (in lack of better terms). I really do not want to start a religious thing here, but it is contradictory to be a Christian and gay.

The last thing I want to clear up is the whole straight white male thing I was going on about. I realize you personally may not do this, but generally in our society, it is much more acceptable to be racist/bigoted against a straight white male than it would be anybody else. You absolutely cannot deny this. If there was a black guy doing stand up in a club making fun of white guys, nobody would care... however if there was a white guy at a stand up club making fun of black guys, it would turn very ugly very quickly. I believe this is called the double standard, it is quite common nowadays and only seems to be getting worse.

I guess we can agree to disagree, you're right. We have different views and you are entitled to yours as I am entitled to mine. I will apologise for the personal attacks but I won't apologise for my political views, and neither should you, after all, what kind of world would it be if we all thought the same? I'll admit I just took matters a bit too personal as a gay person, because a gay gamer was being targetted mostly because of the whole "he is gay therefore it is Affirmative Action" thing. If you had used what he (and Cheska + Scooter) did in Episode 7 and criticised him for that, without bringing up his orientation, we'd have a common point to agree on and I wouldn't lambast you for that.

But before I leave, one last thing.

leukoplast wrote:

The last thing I want to clear up is the whole straight white male thing I was going on about. I realize you personally may not do this, but generally in our society, it is much more acceptable to be racist/bigoted against a straight white male than it would be anybody else. You absolutely cannot deny this. If there was a black guy doing stand up in a club making fun of white guys, nobody would care... however if there was a white guy at a stand up club making fun of black guys, it would turn very ugly very quickly. I believe this is called the double standard, it is quite common nowadays and only seems to be getting worse.

One of the thing of being mixed is seeing both sides of the argument. While I agree that whites are sometimes unfairly targeted because people think it's more "acceptable" since they're the majority (it's still 100% wrong to do so), I am also familiar with "White Privilege." For example, I rarely get stopped by the police, or refused service, and when I apply for a job, I get more favourable responses when I only use my middle name (which is Anglo-Saxon) and my mom's last name (which is Irish) in my resume, even when I put down my qualifications verbatim. You cannot deny that, out of all the groups, there is really no "stereotype" for white people. Most of the characters on TV are straight white people, and we kind of grew up seeing that it's a diverse group in its own rite which each individual being unique. In other words, when it comes to them, we intrinsically do NOT see their race or orientation - just individuals. But when a black or gay person is presented, a host of stereotypes is attached, and their race/orientation tends to get brought up a lot. A white person commits a crime, it's because that particular guy is a criminal, but if a black person did it, suddenly the entire group is blamed for "increased crime rate." And don't bother with statistics, because they look at the most "obvious" common ground (i.e. skin color) than social status. You see shows like Family Guy and MADtv target every other group but whites, which is okay because I know it's all in good humour. But one thing is clear, you see hostility against white people, but many of those who aren't white don't see that. That is *exactly* what it's like with gays. You'd think that there is equality, or that gays get preferential treatment, but we don't. And I do not expect you to understand. And I am, in a way, grateful that you don't understand (and I *hope* you'll never understand), because even if I do not like conservatives, I am grateful that you didn't go what I went through, because I wouldn't wish even upon my worst enemy.

Feel free to reply and give the final word in this debate, I won't reply because I don't want to go off topic, but I WILL read your response.

Gaymer showed the most professionalism and was really the best sport during the whole competition. I do wish 8-bit had made it farther. Did not care for Scooter at all towards the end.

Besides, it all came down to the KZ3 action which showed everyone pretty equally matched. I think Spelunker HD would have been a superior test of gaming prowess though lol. That would not make for good tv...sadly.

that is pretty amazing that Sony can give them all the exact right controllers in the proper order when they go into the final challenge.

what do you mean? are you talking about player position? because pressing the PS button on the controller automatically puts you in the next available spot, it doesn't matter which controller it is. I'm just confused here.