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Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Reggie had 1 catch for 1 yard. You aren't going to win playoff games featuring Blair White and Jacob Tamme. In the playoffs, you get the ball to your stars, and Manning was too scared of Revis. Do you think Andrew Luck would ever completely ignore his top WR in a playoff game? Would he be that terrified of one CB? I doubt it

Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Everybody was "scared" of Revis. He was absolutely dominant that year and he shut down almost all of the top receivers that year. It would be really dumb to throw in his direction when he was playing that well.

Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

No, silly, its all about the QB. Even if the defense gives up plays, or the running game disappears, blame the losing QB because on the other side of the field the QB is the one (Flacco?) that must deserve all the credit for having a running game and defense.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Everybody was "scared" of Revis. He was absolutely dominant that year and he shut down almost all of the top receivers that year. It would be really dumb to throw in his direction when he was playing that well.

so it was "dumb" when Moss torched him on a Brady TD?

Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

No, silly, its all about the QB. Even if the defense gives up plays, or the running game disappears, blame the losing QB because on the other side of the field the QB is the one (Flacco?) that must deserve all the credit for having a running game and defense.

You're looking at this one game. I think most of us talking about Peyton are looking at his body of work in the playoffs, and what it means for his legacy. Those are mostly two entirely different conversations. Honestly in this one game I don't think QB play is even all that high on the list of phases of the game that the Broncos screwed up. But it's supremely disappointing to see Peyton add another one-and-done to his resume.

But please, keeping typing our your : rolleyes :, because it looks so very mature.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

I think this gritty Baltimore team has just as good a chance of beating the Pats as the Broncos did, assuming the Pats win today. The Ravens always play the Pats close. They beat them this year and were a Lee Evans drop away from beating them in the AFC Championship game last year. Flacco completely outplayed Brady in that AFC Championship game. The cold weather clearly doesn't affect his ability to launch it, as he showed yesterday.

I think they have a better chance I say this because Baltimore has a motivation they didn't have before Ray Lewis's last stand. Never underestimate that sort of thing. I think if Denver had won New England would've beaten them.

I don't trust John Fox to outcoach Belichick do you?

John Harbaugh however is better. I think the Ravens might be a team of destiny

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

As far as I'm concerned, this past week ends any debate about the Luck decision.

There is no NFL executive who would currently take RGIII over Luck right now with the question marks that surround RGIII. None.

Peyton Manning, with a loaded team and the number one seed, couldn't make a play at the end and threw an untimely pick in the first playoff game of the season. An ending all too familiar for Colts fans. Keeping Manning would have only been worth it if we made it back to the Super Bowl, and it's hard to say that we would have after watching him tonight.

We made the right decision dumping Manning and drafting Luck.

Unless Manning manages to win an SB in Denver and Luck doesn't win anything here... Or RG3 wins a SB or two and Luck wins nothing etc.

Don't get me wrong I always thought it was the best move I just think Irsay is a tool in general and could've handled it better than him trying to get Manning to retire(and lets face it that's what he was trying to do with the Manning can't throw etc)

Point is there will always be a debate just like there are people who are going to debate Montana/Young even though that was the right move too...

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Unless Manning manages to win an SB in Denver and Luck doesn't win anything here... Or RG3 wins a SB or two and Luck wins nothing etc.

Don't get me wrong I always thought it was the best move I just think Irsay is a tool in general and could've handled it better than him trying to get Manning to retire(and lets face it that's what he was trying to do with the Manning can't throw etc)

Point is there will always be a debate just like there are people who are going to debate Montana/Young even though that was the right move too...

You can't silence all detractors.

I don't think for a second that Irsay tried to get Manning to retire. If Manning was healthy, then he was going to play somewhere, regardless of what Irsay did.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

My point is, it shouldn't have had to be strictly on Peyton. The defense should never have given up anywhere near 38 points. Hell, the Colts only gave up 24 in Baltimore.

I will agree that the late INT was a killer, but again, it should never have been that close.

True, but Baltimore should have never ever given up 14 points on two Special Teams plays. That is maddening in a playoff game. Baltimore's defense held Denver's offense to 21 points in over five quarters of play. There were dumb plays on both sides. The blown coverage by Denver at the end of the fourth was in-excusable, but so is allowing 14 points to Special Teams returns.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

I don't think for a second that Irsay tried to get Manning to retire. If Manning was healthy, then he was going to play somewhere, regardless of what Irsay did.

Really? Because it seemed to me that he was salty over losing 20 something million for a guy who didn't play an entire season and the team was falling apart and a #1 pick who's considered the next Manning but a much younger and cheaper version was available. It was obvious that with each loss Manning wasn't coming back and why pay for an aging QB when you can get someone younger and rebuild.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Really? Because it seemed to me that he was salty over losing 20 something million for a guy who didn't play an entire season and the team was falling apart and a #1 pick who's considered the next Manning but a much younger and cheaper version was available. It was obvious that with each loss Manning wasn't coming back and why pay for an aging QB when you can get someone younger and rebuild.

Worked for GB, SF with Young etc...

And well the Rob Lowe retirement tweet he got that from someone...

I agree that Irsay decided early on that Manning wasn't coming back to the Colts. But Manning playing elsewhere depended 100% on his health. If Manning was healthy, then teams were going to be interested and he was going to keep playing. There's nothing Irsay could have done to make him retire, and I doubt Irsay ever wanted that. Irsay and Peyton will always have a bond and I think Irsay genuinely wanted to see Peyton extend his career. He just felt it needed to be somewhere other than Indy.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

I agree that Irsay decided early on that Manning wasn't coming back to the Colts. But Manning playing elsewhere depended 100% on his health. If Manning was healthy, then teams were going to be interested and he was going to keep playing. There's nothing Irsay could have done to make him retire, and I doubt Irsay ever wanted that. Irsay and Peyton will always have a bond and I think Irsay genuinely wanted to see Peyton extend his career. He just felt it needed to be somewhere other than Indy.

Didn't mean he didn't try to is my point. However even though the Broncos loss was rather disappointing (and I picked the Ravens to win) I didn't think they'd get this far to be honest. I mean many didn't think Manning could do this well to have an MVP season.

I figured 11-5 at best and win the division (because its a bad division) but to get HFA and tied for the best record rather impressive compared to where he was a year ago.

Which I think ended up hurting them in the end. They might've fared better as a WC.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Everyone likes making fun of Jim Mora and "Playoffs? Playoffs??? PLAYOFFS?...." but his disgust was based on what IIRC was a 5 turnover game by the offense... Let's see if I can find the background....

Found it:

On Nov. 25, 2001, after the Colts' 40-21 loss to the 49ers, Mora surpassed himself. Here is how his postgame monologue began:

"Well, I'll start off by saying this: Do not blame that game on the defense, OK? I don't care who you play -- whether it's a high school team, a junior college team, a college team, much less an NFL team. When you turn the ball over five times -- four interceptions, one for a touchdown, three others in field position to set up touchdowns -- you ain't going to beat anybody I just talked about. Anybody. All right?

"And that was a disgraceful performance in my opinion. We threw that game. We gave it away by doing that. We gave them the friggin' game. In my opinion, that sucked. Ah. You know? You can't turn the ball over five times like that. Holy crap! I don't know who the hell we think we are when we do something like that. Unbelievable."

Mora had a point that I'm never sure quite had the impact on Manning it should have.

Back at the time there was some undercurrent going around that the Colts had problems on defense because the system was too complicated. I'm sure Bill Polian had a lot to do with some of that groundswell of commentary. But (and we're testing my memory now) Mora stood up for his DC (I think that might be some of why the rant above starts like it does). In fact, I think at the end of the season there were reports that Mora had a decision to make.... Either fire the DC or he would not be back as HC of the Colts. IIRC Mora refused to fire the DC and that was his final season. The Colts DC at the time: Vic Fangio.

Where is Vic Fangio now? He's DC for the San Francisco 49'ers and their well regarded defense.

Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Everyone likes making fun of Jim Mora and "Playoffs? Playoffs??? PLAYOFFS?...." but his disgust was based on what IIRC was a 5 turnover game by the offense... Let's see if I can find the background....

Found it:

Mora had a point that I'm never sure quite had the impact on Manning it should have.

Back at the time there was some undercurrent going around that the Colts had problems on defense because the system was too complicated. I'm sure Bill Polian had a lot to do with some of that groundswell of commentary. But (and we're testing my memory now) Mora stood up for his DC (I think that might be some of why the rant above starts like it does). In fact, I think at the end of the season there were reports that Mora had a decision to make.... Either fire the DC or he would not be back as HC of the Colts. IIRC Mora refused to fire the DC and that was his final season. The Colts DC at the time: Vic Fangio.

Where is Vic Fangio now? He's DC for the San Francisco 49'ers and their well regarded defense.

I don't get how that has any relation to today though I mean we went to 2 SB's with Peyton won 1 lost the other and Mora never won a playoff game.

Yes if you turn the ball over a lot you won't win but I really don't think that was the only reason they lost the game either. If they had held on when they got the lead they would've won etc... and this wouldn't be a conversation.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

The point was that Peyton has had a tendency to force some things his entire career. Clean that up a little more and maybe his playoff record improves...

That I can understand he's always been a bit of a high risk high reward player a lot like Favre but more consistent. Just seems kind of strange to bring it up now since he's already won an SB and Mora has never won a playoff game.

Luck also plays a role into these things.. I mean I think Marino is a better individual talent than Montana but Montana is the one who's won more SB's and considered far more memorable.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Luck possesses some of Manning's abilities, but he also possesses some of the opposite. Manning's "no clutch" knock for the first half of his career is the exact opposite of Luck, who's already exhibited some big time clutchness. That clutch factor goes a long way in the playoffs...

This year, though, the Colts were just too out-manned across the board to compete with a real playoff team... the Ravens are proving to be a little better than everyone expected, after they sorta "backed in" to the playoffs.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Really? Because it seemed to me that he was salty over losing 20 something million for a guy who didn't play an entire season and the team was falling apart and a #1 pick who's considered the next Manning but a much younger and cheaper version was available. It was obvious that with each loss Manning wasn't coming back and why pay for an aging QB when you can get someone younger and rebuild.

Worked for GB, SF with Young etc...

And well the Rob Lowe retirement tweet he got that from someone...

You might be salty about the decision, but Irsay made the right decision for this franchise going forward. I coulda told you at the beginning of the season that the Broncos dream season was gonna end the way it did --- you don't win Super Bowls behind a fresh-off-major-surgery 36-year-old quarterback. He looked damn good this year, but the adage still remains true. It's never happened before and frankly Manning had some massive odds against him. Everyone was on the Manning and RG3 bandwagons this year, but in five years, the decision Irsay made is going to a pretty obvious one. I hated seeing Manning go too, but I knew at the time it was the right way to go, and I honestly doubt Irsay had any malignancy towards Manning at all. It was the best business decision for BOTH of them. Manning was put onto a good team and he could succeed --- he wasn't going to do that here, with the cap hell and old injured guys we had.

Very few of the true "legends" retired with the teams that they put most of their work into.... Montana... Unitas... Namath.... Favre... all ended up elsewhere at the end.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 01-14-2013 at 12:36 AM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

You might be salty about the decision, but Irsay made the right decision for this franchise going forward. I coulda told you at the beginning of the season that the Broncos dream season was gonna end the way it did --- you don't win Super Bowls behind a fresh-off-major-surgery 36-year-old quarterback. He looked damn good this year, but the adage still remains true. It's never happened before and frankly Manning had some massive odds against him. Everyone was on the Manning and RG3 bandwagons this year, but in five years, the decision Irsay made is going to a pretty obvious one. I hated seeing Manning go too, but I knew at the time it was the right way to go, and I honestly doubt Irsay had any malignancy towards Manning at all. It was the best business decision for BOTH of them. Manning was put onto a good team and he could succeed --- he wasn't going to do that here, with the cap hell and old injured guys we had.

Very few of the true "legends" retired with the teams that they put most of their work into.... Montana... Unitas... Namath.... Favre... all ended up elsewhere at the end.

Er I've always said it was the right decision to begin with but don't tell me that Irsay did this out of being magnanimous he had a cheaper younger version of Manning within his sights and went for it.

Which is fine but really if the Colts weren't in the position for Andrew Luck to begin with Manning would probably have been here.

If Montana can be shown the door Manning wasn't different

It was the right decision but Irsay is still a tool for how he handled the whole thing with his tweeting and pretty much trying to tell everyone Manning was damaged goods more or less. That I don't respect.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Luck possesses some of Manning's abilities, but he also possesses some of the opposite. Manning's "no clutch" knock for the first half of his career is the exact opposite of Luck, who's already exhibited some big time clutchness. That clutch factor goes a long way in the playoffs...

This year, though, the Colts were just too out-manned across the board to compete with a real playoff team... the Ravens are proving to be a little better than everyone expected, after they sorta "backed in" to the playoffs.

I assume we're not talking bout Manning's reputation for a lack of "clutchness" in the reg season, bc even when he was younger, hardly anyone could match Manning in that category.

The knock on Peyton was always post season play, so I assume you're talking about Manning's reputation for a lack of post season "clutchness".

What evidence do we have that Luck is anymore or any less clutch in the post season? He's only played one NFL playoff game and lost. Also, he was 1-1 in bowl games in college (didnt play in bowl game red shirt freshman yr)

Idk that we have enough evidence yet to be able to say whether or not Luck is more clutch within the Post Season

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

I assume we're not talking bout Manning's reputation for a lack of "clutchness" in the reg season, bc even when he was younger, hardly anyone could match Manning in that category.

The knock on Peyton was always post season play, so I assume you're talking about Manning's reputation for a lack of post season "clutchness".

What evidence do we have that Luck is anymore or any less clutch in the post season? He's only played one NFL playoff game and lost. Also, he was 1-1 in bowl games in college (didnt play in bowl game red shirt freshman yr)

Idk that we have enough evidence yet to be able to say whether or not Luck is more clutch within the Post Season

Fair point. Few would argue that Peyton is one of the most clutch quarterbacks in regular season history. The wins Luck pulled out in the 4th quarter this year were the type of wins that Manning has had throughout his career.

I would wager any amount of money though that Luck doesn't have to wait until his sixth season to win a playoff game like Manning did. It's a shame that Manning has struggled in the playoffs so much throughout his career. When he won the Super Bowl six years ago, I really thought the sky was the limit for him and that he'd make a serious run at being the greatest of all time since he was only 31 years old at the time. He got the Patriot monkey off of his back and finally won that elusive championship, so I figured nothing was in his way. But he has continued to struggle in the playoffs, despite not even playing New England over the last six years. It's disappointing that he's only won two playoff games since XLI. Obviously it's not all his fault, but you have to lay a decent chunk of the blame on him for that record, especially since he gets all of the accolades when his teams succeed.

Re: Broncos/Manning 2012-2013 Season Thread

Er I've always said it was the right decision to begin with but don't tell me that Irsay did this out of being magnanimous he had a cheaper younger version of Manning within his sights and went for it.

Which is fine but really if the Colts weren't in the position for Andrew Luck to begin with Manning would probably have been here.

If Montana can be shown the door Manning wasn't different

It was the right decision but Irsay is still a tool for how he handled the whole thing with his tweeting and pretty much trying to tell everyone Manning was damaged goods more or less. That I don't respect.

That's all a bunch of if's and's and but's. Luck WAS available. It most certainly had a hand in his decision. I also don't buy your "tool" logic --- that's mostly your own perception. Show me the tweets where he was damning Manning to be damaged goods. I don't remember that, and I follow Irsay. The only slightly agitated tweets he threw Manning's way was when Manning went public with some stuff and Irsay said he needed to keep it private.

The team needed to be cleaned out --- why would he keep Manning around? Why would Manning want to stick around on a rebuilding project, and take a huge hit himself against the salary? You're damning Irsay and not looking at Manning himself, who publically portrayed one image when all along I believed he wanted out for his own career. I don't blame him one bit. It could also be argued that Manning signed an extension without disclosing the full details of his condition to Irsay. It's all a bunch of woulda coulda shoulda --- but to put it all on Irsay is not the correct line of thinking, if you ask me. These guys are both power players and capable of handling their own business.

In the end, it was an amicable departure, and it worked out the best for both parties, so being bitter about it is just pointless. The only regret I have is that Manning couldn't have retired here, but I also realize we would rode him into oblivion and likely set us back a good 5-10 years into developing our next competitive team.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 01-14-2013 at 11:25 AM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.