How i get the AD permissions when i mount a windows share in debian? if i mount /server/share1$ to /mnt/share1 it says the owner of the files are root, but ill whant to get the real permissions from the ad ?

Ahmuck: if you have HDDs that would be faster, yes - but more configuration (and if you take the HDDs out, you're saving energy)

13:12

<Ahmuck>

thin clients are 1Ghz, 256mb ram (could be 512) and 20G hard drives

13:12

<alkisg>

Ahmuck: AFAIK, you have to specify USE_LOCAL_SWAP for the local swap to be used.

13:12

<Ahmuck>

i need some clarification on some issues

13:12

alkisg: i'd need to format the drive for swap, as the drives are RAW currently

13:12

correct

13:13

<alkisg>

Yes

13:13

So now you don't have any swap space...

13:13

neither local nor nbd

13:13

<Ahmuck>

k, i need some clarification. ltsp is set up so one can use old pc's. my pc's are so so.

13:13

<sbalneav>

Ahmuck: Quickest way to test would be to just throw more ram temporarily into one workstation and test

13:14

then if it doesn't crash, it's a ram exhaustion issue.

13:14

<alkisg>

sbalneav: why not just enable nbd?

13:14

(swapping)?

13:14

<Ahmuck>

i've looked at nubae's fat clients and understand what it does. i've been told i could get better performance installing locally and using ltsp as a login/home storage and i've also been told something about local apps

13:15

<sbalneav>

alkisg: You could do that too, but some people may not like to play around with their config during the day. Upgrading ram in one workstation limits the "fallout" that could occur.

13:15

<Ahmuck>

pdf issues were with viewing a 92 page pdf and then printing selected pages

13:15

i don't have a problem working with the config, as we have up/down times during the day.

13:16

<Lns>

damn pixmap caching again

13:16

<alkisg>

sbalneav: ah, I see. I thought adding a mac-address based entry in lts.conf would be "clean" enough, but I guess you're right.

13:16

<Ahmuck>

anyhow, i went the ltsp route because of the central management and the impression that the clients would run similar to a server with the same configuration. i'm not seeing this

Ahmuck: there are situations involving pixmap caching on the thin client / local X server. This is an issue with Firefox, OpenOffice, and large PDFs that like to cache every image in the X server (and it exhausts all client RAM, killing the session)

13:17

<Ahmuck>

anything is an option if to get results

13:17

<Lns>

Ahmuck: IIWY I'd try more RAM like sbalneav said first if possible. If that seems to fix the issue, then go for NBD swap. IMHO it's the least painful to set up.

13:18

of course with local swap it would perform better and you'd get more space

i was in a meeting the other day, and listened to a kde dev talk about using one machine and others connected to it, ! ltsp though. via redhat ?

13:26

<Lns>

CAN-o-NotHere: we move forward by possibly creating an X extension to intercept local X pixmap caching and redirect it to the LTSP server, or something that won't require people to go out and purchase large amounts of RAM

13:26

And continue to hound developers of major apps to code carefully for this kind of setup, as it's getting extremely popular

13:26

<Ahmuck>

soooo. i need direction

13:26

<Lns>

I see Linux apps moving the way of Windows, and I just plain don't like it

local apps is a app menu that offloads the proc/mem to the thin client?

13:28

<Lns>

Ahmuck: yes.

13:28

<Ahmuck>

alkisg: thx, that is direction i needed

13:28

i just needed someone to point me in a direction

13:28

<Lns>

lol... Ahmuck, 3 people told you your options.

13:28

<Ahmuck>

a plan :)

13:28

all different

13:28

* Lns sighs

13:29

<Ahmuck>

will local apps work for SDL apps ?

13:29

<alkisg>

Lns: sometimes numbering the options make them more effective... :P :D

13:29

<Lns>

alkisg: hehe

13:29

<Ahmuck>

yes, for me it's about a list

13:29

* Lns writes this down

13:30

<alkisg>

Ahmuck: with either localapps, local install or fat clients, your basic problem will be your clients' RAM. 256 MB is too low for heavy apps.

13:30

You could run a video player, or firefox with 1-2 tabs open, but not many/heavy apps simultaneously

13:31

<Ahmuck>

i've used a hardware/software inventory software before, french iirc, that listed each machine. is ltsp able to do this?

13:32

<johnny>

ltsp isn't

13:32

but standard unix tools can

13:32

<Ahmuck>

ocsinventory

13:32

<johnny>

like lshw for hardware stats

13:32

ltsp is just glue..

13:32

on top of standard *nix tools

13:32

it isn't special

13:32

<Ahmuck>

i could run ocsinventory from the server and query each client?

13:32

<johnny>

perhaps

13:32

try

13:32

<Ahmuck>

ah, there's the rub

13:33

ok

13:34

<johnny>

depends on how it works

13:36

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13:36

<Lns>

That's what I love so much about LTSP. It doesn't try to do a whole lot outside of the solid *nix tools that have been around for tens of years.

13:37

Has anyone used FL_TeacherTool in LTSP5?

13:37

<johnny>

never even heard of it :)

13:38

<Ahmuck>

i understand redhat has a new user managment tool they were hoping people would test

13:38

<Lns>

johnny: http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/index.html

13:38

Ahmuck: i kind of wish Ubuntu would adopt RH's current user management tools

13:38

they're really nice

13:39

<Ahmuck>

i do as well

13:39

<johnny>

i hope ubuntu adopts packagekit..

13:39

at least rh adopted upstart

13:39

<Ahmuck>

what's packageit?

13:39

<johnny>

so it's not just going in one direction

13:39

<Ahmuck>

er, packagekit

13:40

<johnny>

users will rarely ever apt-get or yum

13:40

a shared way of installing and searching packages

13:40

distro agnostic

13:40

<Ahmuck>

i aptitude all the time

13:40

<johnny>

no need to aptitude anymore hopefully

13:40

same command will work on whatever distro

13:40

<Ahmuck>

i'd like a distro agnostic package manager. i might even consider fedora at that point

13:40

<johnny>

that's the party line anyways

13:40

<Lns>

johnny: wow, packagekit looks a lot like update-manager

13:41

<johnny>

yes

13:41

<Ahmuck>

i absoltuly hated rpm when using fedora

13:41

<johnny>

it also has plugins for codecs

13:41

Ahmuck, there's yum for that..

13:41

altho yum still sucks..

13:41

it's better than rpm directly

13:41

it has plugins for codecs, drivers, hopefully soon.. printer drivers

13:41

<Lns>

johnny: does packagekit have a shell interface?

13:41

<johnny>

and firmware

13:41

think so

13:41

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13:42

<Ahmuck>

actually, i did not like rpm/yum because if there was a package i wanted, it usually was built by some private individual and that meant i had to search for the proper dependancies scattered all over the web. that was early fedora

13:42

<Lns>

I think the package management aspect of distributions is being slowly melted together, which is good. The differences in distros will now focus on policy more than anything, i think.

13:42

<Ahmuck>

policy ?

13:42

<CAN-o-NotHere>

does anyone here use XChat?

13:43

<Lns>

I.E. packaging policy, stability requirements, etc.

13:43

CAN-o-NotHere: am on it now

13:43

I'm not 31337 enough to be using bitchx on a normal basis ;)

13:43

<johnny>

Lns, do people still use bitchx?

13:43

<Lns>

johnny: of course

13:43

<johnny>

i thought all those folks went to irssi

13:44

<CAN-o-NotHere>

how do i message someone directly that isn't in a chat room with me?

13:44

<johnny>

nobody i know uses bitch

13:44

<Lns>

there will always be people using different apps

13:44

<johnny>

CAN-o-NotHere, /msg

13:44

<CAN-o-NotHere>

brilliant

13:44

CAN-o-NotHere is now known as CAN-o-SPAM

13:44

<johnny>

/msg <nick> <whatever>

13:44

<Lns>

ah, universal irc commands. ;)

13:44

<johnny>

i am the oddest one here

13:44

i'm using an irc transport on my jabber server

13:44

so i am using my jabber client

13:45

<Lns>

johnny: i'm using irc transport on your jabber server, too. ;)

13:45

j/k

13:45

<johnny>

you could

13:45

i wouldn't min

13:46

<Lns>

I set up an ssl enabled jabber server long ago... it was fun

13:46

but nobody wanted to join me :(

13:46

<johnny>

now that everybody uses gtalk.. you can have plenty of jabber friends

13:46

<Lns>

so i had to conform and use AIM, Yahoo, MSN under pidgin

13:46

<johnny>

i use AIM as a transport too

13:46

i don't have any y! or msn buddies who don't have AIM

13:46

<Lns>

gtalk?

13:46

<Ahmuck>

back to swap. enabling swap on the local machine vs ndb would speed things up?

13:46

<johnny>

mainly cuz i'm not in europe

13:47

Ahmuck, probably.. but not sure how much

13:47

<Ahmuck>

ok

13:47

<johnny>

Lns, google talk?

13:47

<Lns>

ah

13:47

<johnny>

haven't you been paying attention in the past 3 years?

13:47

<Lns>

never used it

13:47

<Ahmuck>

i'll purchase ram first and look at local swap

13:47

<johnny>

it's jabber

13:47

<Ahmuck>

can i do ndb and local swap both?

13:47

<johnny>

Ahmuck, why?

13:47

<Lns>

Ahmuck: why would you want to??

13:47

<johnny>

probably

13:47

<Lns>

that's like having 8 wheels on your car

13:47

<johnny>

Lns, not true

13:47

having multiple swaps on different disks isn't a terrible idea

13:48

<Lns>

johnny: don't confuse him :)

13:48

<Ahmuck>

mixed clients

13:48

thin clients without disks, and thin clients with disks

13:48

<Lns>

Ahmuck: you said you're on a 1Gbps network?

13:48

<Ahmuck>

yes

13:48

<CAN-o-SPAM>

a thin client cant have a disk.

13:48

<Ahmuck>

i've even got cat6 cabling

13:48

<Lns>

NBD will be fine, i am sure.

13:49

I'm using NBD swap with 35 clients at a time under a 100mbps network and it works great.

13:49

<Ahmuck>

grr, i have to find out what ur doing

13:49

mine works so so

13:49

<Lns>

CAN-o-SPAM: HP "thin clients" have local storage

13:49

<Ahmuck>

i'm feeling disallisoined

13:49

<Lns>

Ahmuck: what do you mean

13:50

CAN-o-SPAM: of course i don't agree the term should reflect those that do have local NV storage

13:50

kind of like the whole 'cloud computing' term. hate it.

13:51

<Ahmuck>

i guess i expected equal performance from the thin client as the server had

13:51

or near equal

13:51

<CAN-o-SPAM>

lns: i think of storage and disk as two seperate things

13:51

<Lns>

Ahmuck: if you're not getting that, there is something wrong

13:51

CAN-o-SPAM: ah

13:52

<CAN-o-SPAM>

technically: memory = storage, especially in our case.

13:52

<Ahmuck>

hrm, something is wrong then

13:52

<Lns>

Ahmuck: minus streaming media/video of course

13:52

* Ahmuck wonders if it could be my managed switch?

13:52

* Lns is afk

13:57

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14:00

<etyack>

n

14:12

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14:37

<sbalneav>

So, on my little acer aspireone, I've ditched a full desktop, and gone back to using evilwm, which I love.

14:37

The only problem I encountered was: getting connected to a wifi in a NetworkMangler world, with no panel applet.

14:38

So, some googling around, and I discovered cnetworkmanager: the command line interface to NetworkMangler

14:38

But there was a bug: I couldn't connect to a public AP, so I tracked down the author.

14:39

He provided me a fix this morning in about 15 minutes.

14:39

<johnny>

nice

14:39

sbalneav, so when will you have time to do sabayon stuff?

14:39

my box is finally back online

14:39

<sbalneav>

So now, from an Xterm, all I have to do is type: cnetworkmanager -C "network-ssid"

14:39

and I'm connected.

14:39

<alkisg>

I love it when this happens! :) I had the same experience with dnsmasq, a fix in one day!

14:39

<jammcq>

Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

14:40

<sbalneav>

Hey jammcq!

14:40

Got my passport back, so we should think about ordering Brzil tickets!

14:41

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14:42

<vagrantc>

sbalneav: commandline to network-manager? that is something i *might* consider using!

14:45

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14:45

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14:51

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14:52

<sbalneav>

vagrantc: hold on, I'll get the link

14:53

http://vidner.net/martin/software/cnetworkmanager/

14:53

You'll want a git checkout: he just fixed my bug this morning :)

14:53

cnetworkmanager -n shows you what networks are currently around

14:54

cnm -C "ssid" connects to a public ap

14:54

cnm -C "ssid" --wep-key="blah" (etc)

14:54

*very* nice.

14:54

needs a packager.

14:54

hint hint

14:55

<alkisg>

Lns: "from my experience iTalc is kind of a pain to get going." ???

15:04

<johnny>

ok guys.. i have to go train a volunteer

15:04

bbiab

15:04

sbalneav, we'll talk alter hopefully

15:09

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15:10

<Lns>

later johnny

15:10

alkisg: yes ?

15:10

<alkisg>

Lns: you had trouble installing italc?

15:11

<Lns>

I did, well lemme talk to you about it in a bit...busy configuring vlans

15:11

<alkisg>

Sure.. :)

15:18

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15:21

<vagrantc>

sbalneav: what's the git url?

15:22

i can't seem to "git clone" it...

15:23

<sbalneav>

vagrantc: uno momento

15:24

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15:24

<vagrantc>

ah, think i've got it.

15:25

sbalneav: figured it out. had to drop the /w/ from the URL ...

15:26

<sbalneav>

Yeah, think I used git://repo.or.cz/cnetworkmanager.git

15:26

It's a handy little dingus.

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17:12

<Ahmuck>

i just had a major problem with user's

17:12

a user account

17:13

a user was on the server (don't ask) and was able to shut it down instead of logout

17:13

as a result it shutt down the entire ltsp lab

17:23

i wouldn't think that unless the user had super user privleges or a privledge account that shutting down the server would require a sudo password

17:44

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17:49

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17:49

<Lns>

Ahmuck: That's a good point- this might not be configured by default for users not in the 'admin' group

17:49

(ability to shut down the system)

17:50

It's moot that it's an LTSP server, or whatever.. but it might be a good idea to set a gconf value (if it exists) to only be able to shut down if you're in an admin group

17:51

for LTSP servers that might be handy to autoconfigure during install

17:54

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17:54

<aglio2>

hey, any of the main ltsp guys around?

17:54

<-- Josh berkus

17:58

<Ahmuck>

Lns: normally you wouldn't want the user at the server, but were a small install and the server has power to do kdenlive, hugin, etc.

17:58

and someone is always in there watching

17:58

<Lns>

Ahmuck: right - that's understandable (and common with ltsp)

17:58

<Ahmuck>

it did create a bit of chaos for a second

17:58

<Lns>

i bet! =D

17:59

<aglio2>

didn't think so ... too late in the day

17:59

<Lns>

I haven't looked into it, but i'm sure there's a gconf value to at LEAST *disable* the shutdown button for everyone

17:59

<aglio2>

will try back monday ap

17:59

<Lns>

aglio2: define 'main' ltsp guys

18:00

<Ahmuck>

yech, it happened again. k, the user is using the red x button next to thier name

18:00

that should be a logout button

18:01

<aglio2>

Jim, Scott, etc.

18:01

I'm fishing for speakers for Open Source World

18:04

<Lns>

ah

18:04

nevermind then :)

18:07

Ahmuck: http://ubuntu.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/disable-shutdown-for-normal-users/ might help you out

18:23

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18:36

<staffencasa>

anyone have any ideas why firefox using the --kiosk plugin would not appear full screen and only fill about 75% of the screen when maximized?

18:40

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18:45

<staffencasa>

no takers, huh?

18:54

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19:10

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19:10

<Mip5>

Hey Gang!

19:11

I've just followed the howto on updating the thin client, and can't finish it - can't umount /proc - says device is busy. Any ideas?

19:11

Ubuntu 8.04

19:17

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19:25

<Mip5>

My guess is that if I restarted the server, it would umount it - but I'm not sure that's a great idea