mcowles

All of you guys are right. Woot holds a contest where artists submit designs based on a given theme for the week. Shirts that are not TOO similar to past entries are allowed to stay (which this one was allowed to). It got the most votes, by those that have made shirt purchases in the past.

However, I agree that Woot should ignore the votes and choose to not print this one so that everyone here can have a chance to buy a shirt that fewer people like, but that obviously is of better artistic quality. After all, Woot derbies are a democracy and since a majority of the commenters dislike this shirt, it must suck. The people here obviously deserve to have their opinions count more than the 886 people that voted for it over the last 7 days.

basharoftheages

rue842

I've read that people are suspicious Ramy is making up accounts in order to save Imposter at the last second. (Such as bunnypenguin22...apologies if that's actually a real individual.) This hasn't been proven, but I can definitely see the need for investigation. This would mean all of those accounts would own at least one shirt and be able to vote in derbies.

Wouldn't that screw up the democratic process if he can vote multiple times for himself?

midgerock

Some comments about comparing woot's voting to a democratic process...

Now by democracy we mean the majority rule or majority chooses what’s best for the whole. However this isn't how democracy plays out in the real world. Its how it plays out here at woot but not in the real world. Take the US system of government, for example.

Please understand I am not politically minded or have the vast knowledge of politics that others may have and I am not making a political statement with this post.

Yes the majority of votes picks or elects the president or many of the other governing roles, however votes in that system from varied states are weighed more than others.

Also there are 3 branches of government. If one branch passes a bill, one of the other branches can veto it. A bill goes through the Senate but gets kicked in the House of Reps. And even then these bills or rules put forward are not specifically voted on by the voters but by their rep or senator they elected in. And even still if the bill passes both houses, ultimately the president can veto it and put it to death.

So what does this have to do with voting at woot?

Yeah majority votes rule, but we need checks and balances in place. The staff should be the president and veto some of the crap that comes through.

They also have to weigh and review the votes. Some "hanging chads" have been reported and need to be investigated and votes clearly re-tallied and have a system implemented so voting issues will not rise up again. Should some votes be weighed more than others? That's hard to say. May p'ss others off. Possibly one's votes could weigh more based on their history of purchases? Possibly when it comes to artistic criticism or input?
Maybe votes can be viewed in two houses as well. Artist choice vs Consumer choice?

Plus if there are laws instituted, enforce them. Don't create them and implement them one time but then take a coffee break on enforcing them the next.

Hopefully some of these comments can be really reviewed and implemented by woot so its closer to a real world democratic process.

debragr

Even though I'm not about to buy this shirt, and there were a number of other shirts in this derby that I would have happily bought as gifts if not for myself, the humor value here is great.

The write up had me laughing out loud, and when I went back and rewrote it, I caught even more to chuckle about(and I'm with whoever said the author should be identified), but am I the only one who thinks the artist picked the title as a comment to those who hate impostor and the alleged tactics used to keep it alive?

Next week's reckoning page is going to be interesting....two shirts with rows of penguins and two green shirts with rows of bears.

If the derby theme isn't already set in advance, I predict a "text only" derby! Wait, did Poe write a penguin poem? I can see the next derby winner now....

Katanaangel

Don’t wear this shirt: While blaming us for the failures of the democratic process.

Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Oh, wait a second...

SECONDeditnote: even if you ban penguins next week, guys, he'll come back with squirrels. You've been warned.

kevlar51

midgerock wrote:Yeah majority votes rule, but we need checks and balances in place. The staff should be the president and veto some of the crap that comes through.

I agree with you on the process, but since Woot didn't reject this design based on "the similar shirts exist" rule, which the write-up indicates they felt applied, then I don't think the existence of a "Woot Veto" would have yielded any other results than what we have today.

Ramyb really is Woot’s dream designer. His stuff sells. Whether his stuff sells legitimately or his stuff sells because he’s buying stuff up through fake accounts, from a business perspective, that shouldn’t matter to Woot, because they’re making the same $10/$15. And I'm guessing that notion factors into their thought process on whether to reject an entry or not.

dferrantino

midgerock

kevlar51 wrote:I agree with you on the process, but since Woot didn't reject this design based on "the similar shirts exist" rule, which the write-up indicates they felt applied, then I don't think the existence of a "Woot Veto" would have yielded any other results than what we have today.

Ramyb really is Woot’s dream designer. His stuff sells. Whether his stuff sells legitimately or his stuff sells because he’s buying stuff up through fake accounts, from a business perspective, that shouldn’t matter to Woot, because they’re making the same $10/$15. And I'm guessing that notion factors into their thought process on whether to reject an entry or not.

Oh a woot veto would have worked. Veto says "no" to something. Woot has the final say on what they print. As to Ramyb stuff selling, well that's it. If no other choices are given then that’s all the consumer chooses. Same as with presidential elections. I feel most of the time it’s voting for what’s better of the 2 Sirius GPP choices given. Who may be best for job never is able to get a voice in the current political system. I'm not referring to me in this allusion but there are so many other designs, which are over looked and passed by. Voices, which if given the possibility of being printed, would usurp the choices, which have been previously provided. It also could change what the majority may want when it comes varied designs and tastes.

Look at McDonalds. Their history of crappy fattening food has been the majority consumer food. Other choices and health awareness in recent years along with documentaries showing how bad the food is has made McDonald’s change what they offer to the public so they don't lose an edge in being number one. Starbucks coffee known for excellent coffee now has a McDonald’s version. McDonald’s version not as good but people tap into that and now drink their crappy McCafe drinks. Wraps as a healthy choice people are buying up elsewhere. Now McDonald’s provides a choice in that market with many other examples to boot.

The point is having a strong sale history with same old same old doesn't mean it should continue in that direction. Trends in design have emerged which woot is missing out on if they continue to pander the same old same old. That's why implementing a woot veto, having them truly enforce their rules, including similar shirts exists and correcting their voting system, so alt accounts don't take the majority and weigh the votes differently would yeild more sales for woot and better and fresher designs seeing print.

leprechaungirl

[quote postid="4359060" user="Katanaangel"]Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Ldyandrea

Wow, talk about drama! Well, as someone who is a very frequent patron, but does not have the artistic talent to submit a design myself, I think everyone's overreacting a bit.

Personally, I get annoyed by the "none of this, none of that" list of rules that seem to be increasing with every derby. I have purchased shirts from here that were artistically beautiful, and others that I thought were cute, and still others that include some kind of clever geekery that I enjoy. So what if it comes from video games, or bunnies, or whatever? I come here for all of it! Frankly, when the selection gets too "artsy", I get bored by the entries as most of my favorite shirts I've purchased have been the more cutsey or humorous ones.

So, seriously....just get rid of the "don'ts" list completely. To my mind, it stifles creativity. If a submission is so very awful, it won't get the votes to print in the first place. If it does get the votes, then it's going to sell. Get over it.

Ldyandrea

kevlar51 wrote:Ramyb really is Woot’s dream designer. His stuff sells. Whether his stuff sells legitimately or his stuff sells because he’s buying stuff up through fake accounts, from a business perspective, that shouldn’t matter to Woot, because they’re making the same $10/$15. And I'm guessing that notion factors into their thought process on whether to reject an entry or not.

As a longtime and frequent purchaser, I can tell you I've bought quite a few of Ramyb's designs, and I don't buy any shirt unless I really like it and think it's wearable. Just because something is commercially popular shouldn't de-legitimize it.

thurdl01

Ldyandrea wrote:So, seriously....just get rid of the "don'ts" list completely. To my mind, it stifles creativity.

Creativity is not rehashing the same design you've used before, but with just enough of an added graphical element to fit a new theme. If anything the don't lists FORCE creativity, not stifle it. They require people to not go with what's comfortable and safe, which is not being creative, and think of something new and different, which is pretty much the definition of creativity.

This shirt is not creative. This shirt is the same penguins that Ramy has used before, several times in fact, in previous derbys. It was apparently popular, but that's not the same as creative. The only new element of this design is the walkman, which was explicitly mentioned in the write-up for the theme. There's nothing original or creative in the construction. I can't fault Ramy for giving the masses what they want and figuring out a way to make money off it (that's a lie I can, I just won't for the time being), but one cannot look at this shirt in comparison to his past work and apply the word "creative".

Ldyandrea

I'd be willing to bet if they added up all of the revenues generated from shirt designs that include all of those things, they'd immediately reject it as a completely counterproductive move. Those shirts get votes, and they make money. End of story.

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