Not at all.... In fact, I was rather disturbed to say the least at how the OWS - Oakland camp was torn to pieces and the people treated....when they
were on the inside and being raided from the outside. However, that was yesterday. Today was the effort to re-take the park after a running
march/protest through the afternoon. This has been something I was watching pretty much from this afternoon onward. The point was made and made quite
well with a huge media audience before the sun went down.

However, the police were GOING to keep the park closed for this night. So, given that fact and given the knowledge that O.P.D. in particular has never
had a history of playing games with anyone, what was the point of massing repeatedly to press in on the police line...knowing what that likely was
going to bring? I'm totally missing the goal this was working toward, aside from making Ma and Pa Kettle out in Kansas think they're seeing a wild
mob. The Kettles are that 99% we all need the support of to get things done, and not just freeze this winter for nothing.

I'd suggest an alternative that would have been non-violent and just had the authorities blowing fuses with frustration....but no confrontation. If
this had been played off and dispersed at sundown, the cops would have been the ones relaxing and calling it a night before dawn. This time, when
they'd all pretty well left and everything had calmed down, OWS could have dropped the midnight surprise by re-occupying without challenge and been
all set up again by dawn to the SHOCK of the city.

There are always non-violent ways of doing things...and time to try. Once the other direction is crossed though, there is no going back.

With a few well placed 'thugs' the entire OWS could be steered into violence, giving the police all the rights they need to respond harshly.
When the words 'anarchist', 'vandal', and the worst, 'looter', start springing up on the news, you know the end of the campaign is near. Then,
the police have legal reason to respond with violence and the legal retribution will be harsh - even for those not directly on the streets but giving
support on the net. Just look at the UK riots this summer.
I'd say that at the moment, there is a lot of data collection going on behind the scenes and lists are being made. When all the paperwork has been
completed and an immense file of identities collated, then it will end in a few short days of organized, coordinated police response nationwide.
It shouldn't be forgotten that the US prison system is a collection of private companies who make their pennies from incarcerating people, the more
the merrier. And when there's no room left in the jails, where do you think they're going to send the thousands of OWS supporters? They obviously
can't fine them as having no money is one of the points of the protest. Camps, anyone?

There is one thing the US government can do, legally, to shut down the movement, and that's to pass a law making it illegal for more than N persons
to gather publicly on municipal ground without permission. As a representational democracy, your representatives and senators (who truly, deeply, and
without question, have the people's welfare and not the corporations at heart) could pass this law and you would HAVE TO obey it. That is your
system. You voted for them, and the POTUS, now you must do what they decide is "in your best interests".
This was the first thing the new Egyptian junta did after seizing control. That, and take all the guns away from the people.

Looked like scenes from a middle eastern uprising. How can people on ATS condone the police using tear gas? Just because you don't like what the
movement stands for, these are still your fellow citizens, who are upset with whats happening to their world. The police massively over reacted and
to those who support and condone their actions, shame on you.

Actually, there is a nice and easy way around that too...and Zuccotti Park is one example, while a guide floating around the net out of Europe
suggests it in another way.

Don't use municipal space. Use private property where one makes friends with the property owner, rather than occupying by 'force', so to speak. It
reduces police options dramatically while still working quite well for public visibility. I know some OWS groups around the country are looking this
direction to start, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out over time.

Oh well.. I've been watching live feeds for far too many hours tho... On this thread, I'll call it a night/morning to get a bit of sleep. Stay Safe
out there!

Originally posted by Aestheteka
As a representational democracy, your representatives and senators (who truly, deeply, and without question, have the people's welfare and not the
corporations at heart)

I'd like to say that 70% of politicians in the US have a monetary-gain agenda through "less than honest" ways.

Sorry. That's just how I feel. When I lived in Oregon I certainly felt different, but, California is just complete chaos. There's few politicians
who care about anything besides themselves here.

Well, the occupy movement is generally "leftist" so most people on ATS support their silencing by any means possible. Violence, preferably.

Well, for the record, I will NEVER support any "free speech zone" in any form whatsoever in this country for ANY reason, and I could care
less what the protest is about, or what political movement is backing it. If Americans let this talk of free speech areas and certain regulated times
to perform said free speech etc sneak in our back door without noticing, then this nation is going to come to an end REALLY quick.

When people say why don't more Americans protest more, these are some of the reasons, plus the Patriot Act deems subversiveness as terrorism. Our
authorities can really put the clamp down. This OWS movement has traction though, and is getting too big to fail.

While I am all for Peaceful Protests, when the Police start attacking people at random it is time for us to stand up. Think about it, there are a ton
of protesters compared to the cops. Sometimes you have to kick a little ass to be heard. www.youtube.com...

Well, the occupy movement is generally "leftist" so most people on ATS support their silencing by any means possible. Violence, preferably.

Since you have mentioned left and right wing and that ATS is occuppied by right wingers as the GLp actually . Im very curious to know why right
winger are attracted to conspiracy forums .

Im totally not a right winger for the mundane causes so should I not hang out in radical right wing places like this ? Getting lost in my point here .
Why are these forums the territories of the right wing ? as I never realized that conspiracy and UFOs and many such interesting subjects would be the
domain of the rather uninteresting right of the political divide

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