Ok I don't have anything against make-up. I actually like it. I think it makes my skin look nice and even. But I don't wear it. I can't be bothered with it. I don't even remember jewelry in the morning and do well to have clothes that match.

So here is my question. On several occasions make-up has come up in conversation with women that I know (or don't just talked to). Beautiful women. They don't have it on that day or are applying it or something and I say I don't wear it and they say, "Well you don't need it." But they don't either. So what's the deal? Is it just that they are used to how they look with it or are they buying into some cultural ideal or what?

amyashley

01-11-2011, 01:21 AM

People usually have a very skewed perception about their appearance. I also think that they do become accustomed to how they look with it on.

For me, it's my one concession to femininity anymore. I have little kids and not much time. I wear jeans and a t-shirt, I can't wear decent shoes because of health issues (I only wear Crocs), and I do cool stuff with my hair but it only takes 5 minutes. No jewelry-it gets ripped or yanked on. Purses are now diaper bags/toy bags/ receipt depositories.

Makeup makes me feel human. It is one of the few female spaces I have left in the house and I guard it pretty damn fiercely.

stormie

01-11-2011, 01:25 AM

Maybe they have skin discolorations you don't see (because even some moisturizers they might use in the morning have tint in it), or practically lashless eyes and use mascara (and again, you don't realize it).

Or--they are buying into the hype and feel their skin is more "luminous," or "smoother." Or that their eyes just won't be worth looking at if they don't glop it on in the morning, right after brushing their teeth.

Perks

01-11-2011, 01:30 AM

So what's the deal? Is it just that they are used to how they look with it or are they buying into some cultural ideal or what?Asked and answered in one handy dandy stop.

I also believe that many of the things we do are efforts to enhance sexual dimorphism. We shave our legs and, with makeup, underscore the difference between the male and the female. Some animals do this. We just happen to be very good at it withour imaginations and opposable thumbs and whatnot.

I have begun to like the way I look with less or no makeup over the last few years, but the process is still a ritual that separates time to move it and shake it from kicking back and relaxing.

veinglory

01-11-2011, 01:33 AM

Or maybe they just enjoy it but recognise it is not a necessity.

Cliff Face

01-11-2011, 04:20 AM

Make-up, to me, seems like yet another style option. Ie. a lot of people who wear make-up wear it because they like how they look when they're wearing it.

Of course, you can't rule out insecurities too.

(Personal opinion, not fact or statistic.)

MissMacchiato

01-11-2011, 04:24 AM

I used to admin on a makeup board.

Most women on that board wear make up because they like the way it makes them look and feel. They don't necessarily feel that they are ugly without it, but they feel even prettier with it on.

They also like the artistic aspect of it, playing with colour and contour.

I pretty much require makeup for my job. As receptionist/front of house, you are the first thing that people see when they come through the door and makeup assists in making me look less like the half-asleep zombie I wake up as :D

I also happen to enjoy applying it, the compliments I receive when I wear it etc, but it's all personal choice. You don't like wearing it, don't feel that you need it, then that's great, and you should run with that.

brainstorm77

01-11-2011, 04:34 AM

I wear it because I enjoy it. I like how I feel when I wear it and how I look. It's all about me. :)

SaraP

01-11-2011, 05:36 AM

I love make-up though I hardly wear any these days. It started as an interest in how versatile it is, and I enjoyed how people looked with it on. Then I started getting into it, playing with colors, effects, trying out new shades, new products, figuring out what looked best on me. I got so involved with it it got to the point where I would not leave the house without make-up on. Didn't have to be a lot - sometimes just mascara and lipstick - but those few minutes alone, in front of the mirror, were heaven.

It's not that I didn't feel pretty without it, but it was such a part of me then, of who I was, an expression of me, and it was as important to me as my jewelry (I was big into that too). I loved it so much I ended up taking a make-up artist course to learn more.

I worked as a make-up artist for a few years, with brides, and it was wonderful. Now, because I work from home, I just don't bother with it, but on the days I do put it on, it all comes back again, those few minutes where I'm pampering myself. :)

JoNightshade

01-11-2011, 05:42 AM

I've come to realize that makeup is largely mental. I don't wear it either, and I get into those same weird conversations where people are like "Oh man didn't have time to put on anything today, look horrible," etc. and I'm like, uh... right. About half of them think that because I don't wear it I don't "need it" and the other half actually think I'm wearing it. Just the other day I realized a friend of mine who I thought DIDN'T wear makeup puts it on every day. And I can't even tell the difference between when she does and when she doesn't.

It's only noticeable when someone wears very heavy makeup and then one day doesn't. Usually they look better without it. :)

backslashbaby

01-11-2011, 05:47 AM

I don't wear it everywhere, but I do try to wear it. I look tired without it half the time. I kind of consider myself lucky that I can look fresher by putting on something and guys generally can't.

Is it necessary? That's where I hate how society can be. Yes, I like looking fresher. No, I don't want to be required to wear it. My own face should do :)

I had a French boss try to get me to use self-tanner, btw. Depending on how much garden time I've had, I can be quite pale. Folks comment. Children in Latin America stare. What can you do, lol ? :D

Ken

01-11-2011, 05:57 AM

... makeup really does make women look more attractive more often than not. Sometimes the difference is amazing. Even women who are beautiful to begin with look better with some on. I'd be lying if I said differently. That said, looks have never figure high up on my list of criteria. And if a woman wanted to wear none that'd be totally okay with me. I'd like them just the way they are and for who they are. So would a lot of guys I believe. We're really not that shallow. Honest :-I

SaraP

01-11-2011, 06:16 AM

It's only noticeable when someone wears very heavy makeup and then one day doesn't. Usually they look better without it. :)

A lot of women don't know how to wear make-up, so when they do, it looks bad. That said, make-up is a matter of personal taste as is anything else. There is something to be said about the woman that clearly and elegantly wears make-up as there is about the woman, fresh out of the shower, with a clean and fresh face. Different kinds of beauties, different kinds of tastes. :)

Of interest to me is that western make-up historically (as far as I know) originated with prostitutes. Red cheeks, red lips and dark (pupil enlarged) eyes were meant to mimic the orgasmic moment.

Eh what? We of the lady kind haz a message in our message.

bettielee

01-11-2011, 06:38 AM

When I wear matching sox, I figure I've done my duty by myself.

Wayne K

01-11-2011, 06:57 AM

It makes me feel pretty

That is all

BenPanced

01-11-2011, 07:43 AM

Tastes good, good for you.

regdog

01-11-2011, 09:36 PM

My sister does makeup for a living. She has a store, website, the whole nine yards. She does a fantastic job. Me, I'm lucky if I can get lip stick on without smudging it. So I only wear it when I'm going somewhere special. I gave up trying to do my makeup for everyday a long time ago.

milly

01-11-2011, 09:40 PM

NO WAY CAN I LIVE WITHOUT MASCARA!!!!!

:)

just sayin...my eyes don't seem to exist without it...seriously...and yeah, mostly makeup is about how it makes me feel...I feel much sexier when I have a night out, more confident at work, more approachable even when I'm in public...I dunno...it's weird...

but..now my eyes, they require it...it's not about me, it's all about them and what makes them happy

:)

JimmyB27

01-11-2011, 09:49 PM

... makeup really does make women look more attractive more often than not.
I disagree. I tend to find women more attractive without it. Or (and I'm no expert so it could well be this second option) when you can't tell they have it on.

Lavern08

01-11-2011, 11:32 PM

NO WAY CAN I LIVE WITHOUT MASCARA!!!!!

...mostly makeup is about how it makes me feel

I feel much sexier when I have a night out, more confident at work, more approachable even when I'm in public...I dunno...it's weird...

Yep, that ^

I rarely leave home without it, and the few times that I do, I always run into an ex-boyfriend or one of my *rivals* from my former modeling days (30 years and 30 lbs ago). http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon11.gif

tiny

01-11-2011, 11:49 PM

I thought this very same thing when I spied a woman applying makeup in her car while driving her son to school. Then she noticed me watching and I laughed.

milly

01-12-2011, 03:32 AM

Yep, that ^

I rarely leave home without it, and the few times that I do, I always run into an ex-boyfriend or one of my *rivals* from my former modeling days (30 years and 30 lbs ago). http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon11.gif

*high fives for mascara*

milly

01-12-2011, 03:33 AM

I thought this very same thing when I spied a woman applying makeup in her car while driving her son to school. Then she noticed me watching and I laughed.

wait...that was YOU laughing at me in traffic?

:D

backslashbaby

01-12-2011, 03:59 AM

Mine's lipgloss with a bit of color that I try not to be in public without.

I like how my eyes look with a bit of shadow, and I wear powder to even my skintone, but the color on my lips is to convince folks I'm not a black and white picture inserted into the surroundings ;)

Or a vampire come for them :D

rhymegirl

01-12-2011, 04:48 AM

If I didn't wear it I'd look hideous.

goddessofthehunt

01-12-2011, 04:53 PM

I'm too lazy to wear it. I like to sleep in as much as possible in the morning.

Grrarrgh

01-12-2011, 07:58 PM

I have no problem with how I look without makeup, but I think that I look a little more pulled together when I do wear it, so I wear it for work or any occasion when I have to be social. I don't usually wear it on the weekends, and I'm fine to run around and do things without it. I wear the mineral powder foundation which is light enough that I don't even notice it most of the time. My entire routine, even for special occasions, takes around 5 minutes.

My mother, OTOH is insane. She won't leave her house on a Sunday afternoon to drive to the gas station and fill up her tank at a self-serve pump without putting on every bit of makeup that she has. And she wears a ton of the stuff. The thickest liquid foundation she can find, 3 or 4 different eyeshadows at a time for whatever reason, liner, mascara, concealer, blush, powder. I can't even imagine all that crap. She gets up at 4:30 every morning to get to work by 7:30 because it takes her so long to put it all on. If she's sitting at home by herself all day, she still wears every bit of it.

Cranky

01-12-2011, 08:05 PM

You can pry my makeup kit from my cold, dead fingers! I am *so* pale that without it, I look sickly and tired. It evens out my complexion (I use the mineral makeup, too, Grrarrgh!) and brightens it. *shrugs* It makes me happy and I feel better about my appearance with some on, even if all it is is the powder and mascara and a little lipgloss.

Satori1977

01-12-2011, 08:33 PM

I have to wear it everyday or feel horrible. I wear foundation because I have blotchy, uneven skintone. And the last few years I have really started wearing eye makeup. Liner, mascara. If I don't, I look about 12 (I am 33). So it makes me feel good about myself. Feminine. I am a stay at home mom, don't get out much, rarely get dressed in anything other than jeans, so make-up makes me feel human. Something other than just a tired mom.

Snowstorm

01-12-2011, 08:44 PM

I've come to realize that makeup is largely mental. .... It's only noticeable when someone wears very heavy makeup and then one day doesn't. Usually they look better without it. :)

Amen. I rarely wear makeup--because I'm always too danged tired and I just don't care. My sister, who's well over 50, wears thick mascara. She can't bear the thought of going without it. Too bad, the one time I saw her without that gloppy mess she looked twenty years younger and danged cute.

A new friend is pushing 50 and is very pale. She wore only thick black eyeliner that Cleopatra would be proud of. The look was jolting. Too bad; she'd look better without it too.

I remind myself to each their own and to their own comfort level.

Victoria

01-21-2011, 08:35 AM

I have tons of sun damage, sun bed damage, actually, and I use a light foundation to even out my skin tone. A little mascara and a nude lip gloss finshes me off. I will not leave the house without those products firmly attached to my face. Do I think I'm ugly without them? No, but I think I look better, alive at least.

xXVampyrePrincessXx

01-21-2011, 09:13 AM

I wear it cuz it's fun! :) I'll wake up and want dark eyeliner and eyeshadow one day, and maybe the next I just want a little mascara. It depends on my mood. Foundation is a must for me though cuz I've had bad acne problems since I was 12 and they WON'T GO AWAY... >.<

~Amber~

Stlight

01-22-2011, 03:33 AM

A little eyebrow powder due to the fast fade from blonde to invisible.

I did go to a hypoallergenic make up counter and let them 'do the whole thing' with the aim of selling me all the stuff I didn't have, which was all the stuff.

They finished, handed me the mirror and

I looked like my 70+ grandmother. No wrinkles but powdered, that mauve rose on the cheeks. Sigh. Bought moisturiser and went home.

gingerwoman

01-22-2011, 03:54 AM

Who watches Survivor? It's funny how some of these women are so beautiful on the show and then look like clowns at the reunion show with all their makeup.
Personally I wear concealer to hide blemishes and redness usually just on my chin and dye my eyelashes because I'm a redhead and they are a bit fair. I think lipstick does make a difference to most people.

LadyA

01-22-2011, 03:46 PM

I'm a sixth form student and could probably count on one hand the girls in the whole school (aged 11-19) who don't wear any make up. I hate wearing makeup, particularly lipgloss (it's all gooey and sticky - eeerrggh) and am hopeless at applying it to my face (yet I'm pretty good at doing my little sister's makeup or friends) so i don't bother. I've got enough to do in the morning without stressing about mascara, foundation etc, and I envy the women who have the patience and skills to put it on every day! the way i look at it, if you never wear makeup and one day you do, people will (hopefully) be pleasantly surprised at your appearance, whereas if you always wear makeup, and one day don't, then people may be a bit shocked (or at least some of the girls at my school who coat themselves in foundation, five coats of mascara, eyeliner, and thick lipgloss look pretty awful when you get used to the with makeup and they don't wear any for a day).

Blimey, sorry for the essay - i guess i just got a bit carried away ;)

backslashbaby

01-22-2011, 11:24 PM

Oooh, I hate the gooey lipgloss, too. Can't stand that.

I have to wear lipbalm of some sort anyway for half the year because the humidity changes so much here, so I gravitate toward tinted lipbalms. I really do look tons better with just that little touch of color.

maestrowork

01-22-2011, 11:40 PM

... makeup really does make women look more attractive more often than not. Sometimes the difference is amazing. Even women who are beautiful to begin with look better with some on. I'd be lying if I said differently. That said, looks have never figure high up on my list of criteria. And if a woman wanted to wear none that'd be totally okay with me. I'd like them just the way they are and for who they are. So would a lot of guys I believe. We're really not that shallow. Honest :-I

I agree. I know some beautiful women who don't need makeup and they, well, look beautiful. But when they do put on makeup, WOW. Gorgeous can't even describe them. I agree that it accentuates their faces, skin tones, etc. Whatever it is, like someone said, it's partly sexual. There's just something that attracts others, especially us men. Most women I know don't wear makeup, and they're fine. Some wear lipgloss or with some powder on, and it makes a difference. It's all perception but socially we're trained to notice the difference. If it makes everyone happy, why not?

As an actor, I also wear makeup for auditions and, of course, in front of the camera. It's essential to the trade. Most often it's done to even out skin tones (especially for us guys -- some of us have really bad skin) so we don't look blotchy or half-dead. Also the studio lights are HARSH and without makeup we'd look like zombies. Trust me, unless we're playing zombies or drug addicts, no one wants to see that. Everyone on TV and in movies wear makeup - yeah, even Charles Bronson and Clint Eastwood and Arnold Schwarzenegger. No big deal. At audition, a bit of makeup makes a hell of a difference on camera -- and we need all the advantage we can get when doing screen tests. Some actors also wear "day time" make up to accentuate their best features. Again, it's to look good in front of the casting director.

That practice has now spilled over to the general population. The metrosexuals lead the way, and some men are now wearing day-time makeup (very subtle compared to women's makeup) to make themselves more presentable and attractive, and it works. It's become part of some men's grooming routine, like plugging their brows or shaving. Women notice the difference, but they don't necessarily think: "Oh, the guy has make up on. He's so vain. Or he's gay." They just instinctively realize the guy looks good, for some reasons. I think men and women want to look their best and feel their best. Gone are the days when men could just walk around at the office with unkempt hair, bad nails, bushy eyebrows and blotchy skin. Businessmen need to be sharp-looking, and you see more and more of them going to spas and get manicures, and use subtle men's cosmetics (toner, skin lotion, powder, etc.) to look the best they can in front of their clients. The word is "subtle" but it works.

And then there are the dramatics. The guyliners, for example. Something I can never get used to (guy with eyeliners and heavy makeup...) The Jack Sparrow look only works in movies or a rock band...

scarletpeaches

01-22-2011, 11:43 PM

I don't much care what other women think of me wearing makeup. I don't do it to attract them. I wear a base to even out my skin tone and improve my complexion, and any other makeup I wear on top of that is to make myself look attractive to men.

If anyone wants to judge my desire to look nice for other people, let them. Nine times out of ten people who criticise those who wear cosmetics at all have a face like a well-skelped arse anyway.

maestrowork

01-22-2011, 11:48 PM

Just remember, at some point you will have to face the guy with your unmade-up face. So be gentle. You don't want to shock your guy to death...

:D

scarletpeaches

01-22-2011, 11:49 PM

By then it would be too late.

/black widow

sassandgroove

01-24-2011, 06:58 PM

I don't much care what other women think of me wearing makeup. I don't do it to attract them. I wear a base to even out my skin tone and improve my complexion, and any other makeup I wear on top of that is to make myself look attractive to men.

If anyone wants to judge my desire to look nice for other people, let them. Nine times out of ten people who criticise those who wear cosmetics at all have a face like a well-skelped arse anyway.
I wasn't criticizing anyone for wearing make up. I am just curious why women who do wear it say to me that I don't need it when they are clearly beautiful without it as well. that's all.
If I recall I even said I like make up and how it makes my skin look even, I just don't bother with it.

scarletpeaches

01-24-2011, 06:59 PM

I just wanted to say 'well-skelped arse'. :D

maestrowork

01-24-2011, 10:58 PM

As a matter of fact, I'm wearing makeup right now.

:D

(I have a screen test in 30 minutes :tongue)

maestrowork

01-24-2011, 11:03 PM

I wasn't criticizing anyone for wearing make up. I am just curious why women who do wear it say to me that I don't need it when they are clearly beautiful without it as well. that's all.

They don't need it, but they want it. Like I said, some women are beautiful without it -- the natural, genuine look is very alluring (to me, anyway -- I definitely prefer natural beauty). However, if they feel better or look even better with some makeup on -- everyone is happy. What I don't understand is women who spend a long time doing their hair and makeup. What gives? I can't tell you how often I burst a vein waiting for someone who insists on spending an hour on her face. Hey, honey, it's like you're going to the Oscars. Let's go, chop chop!

tiny

01-24-2011, 11:19 PM

I don't mind grown women wearing makeup... what I don't get is parents making their little girls up like tarts then parading the pictures around on facebook. It's creepy (and off topic, sorry. But it's a father which I find creepier).

scarletpeaches

01-24-2011, 11:21 PM

I actually love it when men wear makeup. If I catch sight of a man in guyliner, well...I'm gone.

sassandgroove

01-24-2011, 11:35 PM

They don't need it, but they want it. Like I said, some women are beautiful without it -- the natural, genuine look is very alluring (to me, anyway -- I definitely prefer natural beauty). However, if they feel better or look even better with some makeup on -- everyone is happy. What I don't understand is women who spend a long time doing their hair and makeup. What gives? I can't tell you how often I burst a vein waiting for someone who insists on spending an hour on her face. Hey, honey, it's like you're going to the Oscars. Let's go, chop chop!
No -that's not it. If that were it I wouldn't have started the thread.

Maybe it's just me.

The women who prompted me to wonder about this - they think they need it. They say as much.

WHY?

But I think actually that's been answered in this thread already. Along with the "Because I want to" there have been posts pointing out that some peopel a skewed view of themselves or buy in to a culture.

I don't mind grown women wearing makeup... what I don't get is parents making their little girls up like tarts then parading the pictures around on facebook. It's creepy (and off topic, sorry. But it's a father which I find creepier).

Yeah I don't like/get that either. Or letting them wear pants with words on their butts. Then getting mad because the "culture sexualizes our children."

scarletpeaches

01-24-2011, 11:39 PM

Or maybe it's a case of evening out skin-tone and making yourself look like you've slept, when you haven't?

Bit of blusher, a faint flush, some pale lip gloss...it makes someone look fresher. Groomed. We all judge books by their covers, and I prefer to be around someone who's pulled together. That may include makeup, it may not, but if someone has blotchy skin or dark circles, and some cosmetic assistance makes them look tidier, why not wear it?

sassandgroove

01-24-2011, 11:48 PM

right but I look better in make up. My skin has red splotches. and I have little white bumps that don't go away.

Woman friend applies lipstick or asks me if her make up is smeared or some such thing.

Sassy: I don't wear make up. I like it but I don't have time.
Woman Friend: Oh well you don't need it. You have good skin.
Sassy: You don't need it either. (thinking I don't have good skin either)
Woman Friend: (Laughs derisively.)

See what I'm saying? I could benefit from make up too - but they tell me I don't need it. Is it because I said I don't wear it? Are they just being nice to me?

scarletpeaches

01-24-2011, 11:55 PM

Women throw compliments around in the hope of getting some in return. It's all part of the "Oh, I look awful," thing. You're supposed to say "No, I look worse," then they say, "Oh you look wonderful," ad nauseam.

I don't look hideous without makeup but my skin looks a hell of a lot healthier with it on. Do I need it? Well, I can get by, so I guess not. Do I look better with it on? Oh good God, yes.

Perks

01-24-2011, 11:56 PM

particularly lipgloss (it's all gooey and sticky - eeerrggh) and am hopeless at applying it to my face (yet I'm pretty good at doing
I've always wondered if the supershiny (ergo gluey) lipgloss was a deterrent to kissing? It would seem like it would be. Just yuck.

scarletpeaches

01-24-2011, 11:57 PM

Depends on the brand. I only wear BeneFit.

I'll let you know how kiss-proof it is when I find someone willing.

maestrowork

01-25-2011, 12:05 AM

The women who prompted me to wonder about this - they think they need it. They say as much.

Everyone has a different self-image about themselves. You may think they don't need it, and they may think they do. I don't think there's an answer to that, except whatever works.

This reminds me of the guys at the gym. Some of these guys are like 230 lbs with bulging muscles, like they're competing in bodybuilding contests. They'd say they need the exercises. My question is exactly like yours: WHY? If they get any bigger they should be cast as the Hulk. Sometimes you just can't reason using OUR judgment. People do what they do.

Oh and what SP said: sometimes people are just fishing for compliments. :)

Like I said, some women don't "need" makeup but I appreciate it when they put makeup on -- they do look better, even if they don't "need" it.

I am simply too lazy to be bothered, unless I'm actually going to a special social event or something. But I'm too lazy to bother to much with my appearance in general, although I have been trying to work on that.

The sad thing is, I've been like this for years, but after having child #2, my ecsema has got much worse, and everytime I wear make-up it flares up around my eyes and I have to use steroid creams for like a week to make it go away. I even tried getting mineral make-up in the hope that would react less, but no luck.

Maybe, if they invent something that I won't react to, I might try looking girly again. Is does make me feel good. When I can be bothered. :)

JoNightshade

01-25-2011, 01:07 AM

So, okay, to add to my earlier post... I do not wear makeup and I don't think most women need it nearly as much as they claim. I have no clue how to put makeup on and the few times I've tried I look like a clown. My husband doesn't like women with makeup so we're fine.

However, there have been a few times when I've had my makeup done by someone who knows how to do it. I always get very light, subtle makeup - just evening out my skin tone, a light color on my lips, and some light mascara. And I fricking look like a supermodel. And yeah, I draw a lot of attention.

This is why I would never wear makeup regularly. I don't WANT that kind of attention. It's embarrassing and distracting. I want to feel like a normal human being, not an object.

So I guess makeup has the opposite effect on me. It doesn't make me feel womanly or pretty. It makes me self conscious and socially retarded.

rhymegirl

01-25-2011, 01:41 AM

The women who prompted me to wonder about this - they think they need it. They say as much.

WHY?

But I think actually that's been answered in this thread already. Along with the "Because I want to" there have been posts pointing out that some peopel a skewed view of themselves or buy in to a culture.

I think I understand what you're asking/pondering. If it's why do some women who don't really need makeup think they need makeup to look good--

I think it's our culture. I always say women are bombarded with messages (TV commercials, magazine covers, magazine articles, etc.) every day that show us how we're "supposed" to look. There are Oprah shows (and other TV shows) that promote makeovers--both facial and fashion.

It's as if we're always being told we're not good enough just the way we are.

My husband wouldn't care if I went without makeup, but it would bother ME.

In the end, I have to please myself.

SaraP

01-25-2011, 02:20 AM

I think it's our culture. I always say women are bombarded with messages (TV commercials, magazine covers, magazine articles, etc.) every day that show us how we're "supposed" to look. There are Oprah shows (and other TV shows) that promote makeovers--both facial and fashion.

I agree with this, but for me, when I used to wear it so much, it was also about my own identity. I needed make-up because it was part of who I was. I still feel much more me when I wear these days even though I don't bother with it as much anymore.