Thanks, ATH, most of us were unaware that males have typically been more involved with work, science and leadership over the last few thousand years, and women with childrearing and the home. I for one was laboring under the misconception that all-female Senates composed of Amazonian industrialist-scientists planned and implemented the invention process.

How do we know soap was a male invention in 2800 BC or that yeast was discovered by males? Since women were traditionally involved more with cooking and cleaning....

You ever get a look at all the useless, impractical and downright silly devices men have ALSO invented?

Who hasn't?!?!?!?!?!?

Watch late night tv and you can see the cream of the crop ....

I for one was laboring under the misconception that all-female Senates composed of Amazonian industrialist-scientists planned and implemented the invention process.

I thought you were under the misconception (taught in most modern universities) that men had only done bad things throughout history......thus clinging to the notion of patriarchy only as a bad thing without any posititve attributes whatsoever (while clinging to the notion of matriarchy as posessing only positive attributes and no negative ones (talk about living in a dream world)....

IJ never seemed to find a misandric attitude he couldnt agree with in some measure........

if misogyny is bad, then so is misandry.......it just seems we always need someone to be hating on (or just being contemptuous toward).....

Next thread I start may just be a list of all the television shows that are misandrous or semi-misandrous............Like that new one from AMC, MAD Men.......if you liked "sex in the city", you will like this one, cuz it is all about how bad men can be (or were).....

Notice the headline......and notice how the definition of housework EXCLUDES work traditionally done by men (<b>like inventing easier ways to do things</b>)........(a useful way to IMPLY that men are lazy or worse, akin to slavedrivers who work women to death - even though women live longer than men on average).....

There is housework that is done traditionally by men and there is housework that is traditionally done by women (NOT ALWAYS).......some of us can do both and some of us have preference s of which jobs we would rather do...thus, some of us choose different tasks around the house based upon our preference....

And feminist scholars always examine traditional women's housework while FAILING to examine housework that has more frequently been done by men (thus, they can pretend that men work less hard, by deliberately or naively ignoring work done by men)........

It's not hard to find articles that demonize men; what is hard is to see through and past their negative bias towards men....

Men are often seen to be failing when viewed and judged through a feminine lens (read MATRIARCHY if you like)

Have you ever seen a survey that reports how infrequently women perform more traditional male roles (plenty of women do these things just as plenty of men like myself cook, clean, do laundry)..........

Women slouching on housework: the average women doesnt take out the trash (regularly), breaks things without fixing them (very frequently), and waits until things break rather than doing preventative maintenance (much of the time the wife or girlfriend expects the man to do these things even thoug they expect equal effort on your part in other aspects of housework )......

It might be too much to ask some to stop hating or simply dissin' on the males (it has become an ingrained process to the point that it requires no more conscious thgouht), but i can still hold out hope.........

Most men finds misandry to be a minor beef...until they are falsely accused of a crime, falsely convicted of a crime, or are dragged through divorce court and are not treated fairly or are deprived of their children that they stil must pay for (often via lies and innuendo that are not even proven, but merely alleged)...Some people only find it intolerable when they can no longer see their grandchildren (cuz of parental alienation syndrome)...

Most of the time, things have to get worse before people want to make it better....

Who knows, maybe one of your friends will be falsely accused of rape (I hear it can sometimes be good for us to be falsely accused of such a heinous crime). I hope these things do NOT happen, but if they did, I could imagine that it would be a real eye opener (it might even make you mad or angry which you will soon learn, you have no right to....only women are granted the right to be mad and like i said on the other thread, only minorities have the right to be as racist as they wanna be)...

Wait until you walk into a classroom and find misandric cartoons on the wall (you wouldnt expect to find misogynous cartoons on a classroom wall, that would raise an uproar), this could give a clue as to how unwelcome men are in places like schools, libraries and other places where women have taken control and do not meet their own criteria of fairness and equality.....

The county of leon in Florida last year announced its runner ups for teacher of the year....I counted 46 out of 47 people nominated for teacher of the year to be women (and one man, a token?)....

If 46 out 47 people nominated for anything were men, there would be a massive uproar hinting at or alleging some sort of massive patriarchal conspiracy to keep women out. When the shoe is on the other foot (and men are on the whole excluded from participation, perhaps maliciously or simply thoughtlessly), any suggestion that men havent recieved a fair shake mostly falls on deaf ears (cuz we have been trained to see women as the discriminated group and men are those who discriminate)....

The one thing i have learned about men and women and discrimination is that women have no monopoly on victimhood (men can be victims, too, despite massive amounts of ideology that suggests otherwise) and women can be oppressors just as men can be (aint equality great)....

We can maintain the myth of women as victims and men as oppressors to our own detriment if we like....

I believe in patriarchy and I belive in matriarchy.....I meet patriarchs and matriarchs (and wannabees) every day. I dare to see the good in each and i dare to see the bad in each.....

ATH, you mistake contempt for onesided fulltime promotion of male victimhood for support of misandry every time this comes up. I believe that a balanced view of gender roles is a better response to existing problems faced by men and women than trying to negate radical feminists by becoming their mirror.

"ATH, you mistake contempt for onesided fulltime promotion of male victimhood for support of misandry every time this comes up. I believe that a balanced view of gender roles is a better response to existing problems faced by men and women than trying to negate radical feminists by becoming their mirror."

I thank you Ian for directing me in how i might be a better Men's rights activist (MRA), but as i see you have little interest in men's rights (we MRA's know how unwelcome we are in most spaces, regardless of whether or not we are radical or trying to be midddle of the road), I will have to differ with you in my approach.

Ian never seemed to find misandry he couldnt support at least in spirit (and thus he had to make a negative comment if i dared post a thread about the good that men have done over the ages)......

Matriarchy is as bad as patriarchy (or just as good) and if i have to be labeled a full time promoter of male victimhood cuz i dare concern myself with men's rights (as I had been concerned with women's rights for over two decades), then so be it.

Misandry is not so much a surprise to me anymore as much as it is simply part of the landscape of the 21st century (misogyny is equally offsenive and present and needs addressing as well and Ian will likely pretend i never spoke against misogyny).......

Thanks Ahmed for a very interesting post (& link)......having been raised for a time by lesbians myself, i am aware of how much men are misunderstood and despised by some lesbians (certainly not all, just the ones that raised me).......

I was raised to be self loathing and distrustful of all men (but that is not misandry worth mentioning and any criticsm of a lesbian mom i have found to be akin to misogyny.... I was taught to avoid male doctors and male therapists (women, i had been taught, were not equally empathetic, but superior in empathy, LMAO)......

I was taught that feminism was about equality and i was taught that men are not equal to women (since men are bad in most aspects and women are good in most aspects).........and pointing out hypocrisy to my mother i have been told is real bad, too.......

Question authority i was taught, but not female authority (only male authority).......questioning female authority will get people all riled up

Some folks''s idea of a balanced view of gender roles seems to be able to accomodate criticism of men (straight ones), but not of women.......

Some people's idea of a balanced view of gender roles seems to be unable to accomodate giving men credit for the good they have done ....

Kudos to you Ian....you take up a cause i myself had supoorted for quite some time (women's rights and the rights of those with alternative orientations, those i still support, while also supporting the rights of those we now demonize......straight is the new gay, you may not know it yet )......you have stood up against my ideas and have shown much strength in making your arguments and pleas and concerns known........you have spoken when others dared not to, for that you desrve much praise and respect (thank you)....without you, i would be preaching to the choir or talking to myself......

Be well and have an awesome weekend......

next week is be kind to white males week.......dont forget to celebrate.....

Thanks to everyone else as well.....tis a tought subject and most folksk are eager to ignore it (or have better things to do).....

of course, i think it was Einstein who said....."

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.

Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.

<b>It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. </b>

Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.......

I just think that in the search for what is often viewed as equality that one can overboard---unintended consequinces tend to also pile up.

Reading not to long ago about a guy that is trying to get "ladies night" abolished since its "unfair" to men.
Is he right? Well....yes, on a VERY technical level....yes. but in the larger sense all he is really doing is to make it HARDER for guys to meet girls.
So he actually creates a LARGER burden on men than his overly narrow approach/viewpoint helps.

Sorry you were raised in that enviroment--sadly I think that outlook is more commen--to an extent--than people are aware.

Just think that people need to be really careful lest we end up like the 'Ladies night" guy.

What is this thread about? A list of male inventions? What does THAT have to do with men's rights? It sounds more like bitterness and gender pride. THAT I do have little interest in.

"Ian never seemed to find misandry he couldnt support at least in spirit (and thus he had to make a negative comment if i dared post a thread about the good that men have done over the ages)......"

You got it--that was me, in all those other threads, calling for misandry with code words like "equality" and "balance." Anyway--my negative comment wasn't about the fact that men invented many or all of those things, but rather, your initial hyperbolic claim that we all have misandric world views and that history only tells us about the bad things men do. As if history books point out that Hitler was male but the American troops weren't? Or somehow tried to put the guy behind Morse code in a dress?

"Ian will likely pretend i never spoke against misogyny."

Nope, you do throw in a few words against it to every 4,000 word post about the male Holocaust. I don't need to make up your disproportionate fascination with misandry. You do that yourself with your reminders about the unfairness of your being raised by a radical feminist. Whatever happened, that experience seems to have seriously twisted your view of the world into a place that's egregiously unfair to men. I would merely say instead that life is unfair for many, that many things do happen to guys because of their gender, but they get a lot of perks too. And overall, they're doing quite ok by quite a lot of standards. I don't view sexism against either gender (or homophobia) as a collossal crisis, though all three need correction. The extent to which you overcall the seriousness of what's going on is apparent when you think about just what it would mean if the Nazis or anyone else tried to eliminate men. It's not plausible. Nor is it plausible that "straight is the new gay." Gay has become cool in some circles in recent years (though CXT will tell you we're decades behind where we ought to be), but if memory serves, all Republican candidates oppose gay marriage and the frontrunner wants to amend the constitution to abolish it, while of the Democrats, only one (dropped out now I think) supported it. If you think straights are on the ropes to a greater extent, well, you're not thinking clearly.

ATH, once again, I swear--I'm not a proponent of misandry, and I love guys (probably more than you ) but I do think you need to have a glass (or two) of wine and put this in perspective. There may be a lot of misandrists, homophobes, racists, and misogynists, but by and large we're getting along, and we're doing a better job overall than we used to. Cheers!

Back in the days when my wife and I were active in the National Organization for Women (NOW), it always amused me to hear some of the baby feminists talking about how much better the worls would be if only women ran it. I tended to ask them if they had ever heard of the Empress Catherine of Russia, of Elizabeth I, of Mary Tudor, of Marie de Medici, or even of Helena, the mother of Constantine I. I am certain that most of you could easily add to this list of powerful women from history who were every bit as ruthless as the men around them, some even mre so.

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