Sampled and covered by everyone from Sugababes and Basement Jaxx to Marilyn Manson and the Foo Fighters, '80s star Gary Numan is back in vogue and is being hailed as the lord of electroclash and nu-metal. With a new retrospective album just released, Exposure - The Best of Gary Numan 1977-2002, worldpop grabbed Gary for a chat about being an innovator, Bowie and why pop and politics never mix.
1. On becoming the electroclash guru
worldpop: So how does it feel to be the lord of electroclash and nu-metal?
Gary: It's great. It feels really special to be influential on albums that people are making now. It makes me proud to feel that I've been innovative in some way. It's great. And it couldn't come at a better time to be honest. On the electroclash side of it I'm not aware how much I've been influential in that scene. I've heard of some of the acts - Peaches, Felix Da Housecat - and I like them. I haven't heard the Fischerspooner album yet. I probably should! It's ongoing. I hear about stuff of mine being used all the time. There's a hip hop band called Thee Undadawg that have sampled something of mine. I'd like to be really cool about it but it's brilliant and really flattering
worldpop: What did you think of the Sugababes track Freak Like Me which samples Are Friends Electric?
Gary: I was really pleased with how it came out. I think even though the track is 25 years old it still sounds fresh. I think the vocal melody that they sung was great. The Sugababes' vocal melody was better than my original. I keep getting told off for saying that. They can genuinely sing. I liked it.
worldpop: Do you have any plans to play any festivals this year?
Gary: I really wanted to and it's the right time to do it but my agent hasn't come up with anything and that's frustrating.
worldpop: Any plans for live gigs?
Gary: It would clash with the completion of my new album so we've decided to do three live gigs in September in Liverpool, Glasgow and London and leave it at that. But my new album is behind schedule really. I'm also producing a new DVD and trying to learn the DVD encoding process. And I'm mixing two live albums of mine for release too. I'm also co-writing an album with Mark Thwaite from The Mission, writing a book and running my own website, merchandise and design. I'm working on a novel with a semi fantasy, sci-fi theme. Lord of the Rings is my favourite book ever.
worldpop: Has the recent recognition led you to revisit your old songs for the new album?
Gary: No. The new album is very industrial and heavy, like my last three albums. I'm aware that the radio won't play it so it's not going to be massively commercial. It's a shame. I wish radio would play my stuff, it's frustrating. But you have to look at other ways. I've become an albums orientated act. I'm also doing film trailer music. You look for other areas you can use. If your music isn't pure pop or R&B it's difficult to get played on the radio. I think I can make a good enough living making the music I want to make. It doesn't interest me to be a pop star any more. I like having a life, going to the cinema, walking about. There's no peak weirdness any more. The chances of me being No 1 again are zilch anyway.
2. On fame and the early days
worldpop: How did you handle fame in the early days?
Gary: I never coped with it very well. It wasn't what I expected and there was a huge amount of learning involved. I felt I had to be in the studio. I'm not a natural showman. I'm not good at being famous. I hate standing in front of a camera and being a celebrity. Some people live for that moment. I don't.
worldpop: You once said you feel like a dysfunctional outsider. Do you still feel like that?
Gary: I said that when I was much younger. I think when you're a teenager you do feel like that. You're tryng to figure out what you want to do and you're ill-equipped to make those decisions. I don't think school equips you either. Instead of woodwork they should teach you about car mechanics and banking. I got expelled from Grammar school and then got caned at my next school and was expelled then I went to a college in a last ditch attempt to please my parents. I was so stupid at school. I don't think you should go to school until you're 18.
worldpop: Did you find an escape in music then?
Gary: I decided I wanted to be a pop star and be famous and wasn't necessarily interested in music. Being a pop star was important to me then yeah, the lifestyle, everything that came with it... I admit I was shallow. I wanted to be rich and famous. I used to see Marc Bolan driving around in his Rolls Royce with loads of girls and I knew that's what I wanted to do.
worldpop: You made a fortune but lost it all in the mid '80s. How?
Gary: I started losing it in about '83 when I left Beggars Banquet. I started my own label and didn't realise I had a problem with Radio 1 refusing to play my records and haven't done to this day. I funded the making of the records, videos, and I was touring with massive shows and I was losing a massive amount of money touring - putting money into the records and it didn't work out. My songwriting suffered and my attitude sucked. It's demoralising to make albums that aren't played that nobody buys. I realise I was considered a laughing stock and it was demoralising. My songwriting suffered. Then I met Gemma, my wife and she helped me changed my attitude and how I saw myself. And things started to get better. My confidence came back and I started to even out financially.
worldpop: You must have earned lots of money from the samples.
Gary: I won't see any money from the Sugababes for another year. I have no idea how much I'll earn. My own albums have been selling well. Since I got heavy and industrial my albums have been selling well. I wrote my first heavy album in '92, Sacrifice. Someone said I was jumping on the nu-metal bandwagon which is ridiculous. I was doing this long before nu-metal became fashionable. But it's ironic that Radio 1 won't play me when the Sugababes was the most played record earlier this year with 10,000 plays.
3. On media hostility and regrets
worldpop: Journalists seemed to be very hostile towards you in the early days?
Gary: Yeah, I think some of the hostility was unnecessary. If they didn't like my music fine but don't make it personal. Someone said my mum and dad should be doctored for giving birth to me. Which is a bit strong. But that's in the past.
worldpop: Bowie praised you recently, didn't he?
Gary: Yeah, he said I'd written two of the finest songs in pop history and I thought that if he'd only said that 25 years ago. Back in the old days he had a bit of a pop at me. But if he'd said it then it would have helped get rid of the hostility towards me. It was like, thanks very much Dave, but 25 years too late mate!
worldpop: Any plans to collaborate with anyone?
Gary: I was in Amsterdam last week. I'm working on a track with Junkie XL. I think he's a genius. He's really creative. He's recorded an album. Saffron from Republica is on his album. She's a friend of mine. I'm doing a vocal on one of the tracks on the album. Then there's the Mark Thwaite album. I might be working with Trent Reznor. We talked about it last year. I'm a big Nine Inch Nails fan.
worldpop: Any regrets about your career?
Gary: There's certain albums I wouldn't have made and certain directions I wouldn't have gone in. Commercially I've shot myself in the foot so many times. After Telekon I made Music For Chameleons that Beggars Banquet weren't happy with. I deliberately went anti commercial. I put saxophone on Music For Chameleons. I should have been doing the stuff I'm doing now in the mid '80s. I should have got heavier much earlier.
worldpop: Do you regret coming out in support of Tory Party in the '80s?
Gary: Oh yeah. I was hammered for it. There's no freedom of speech unless you agree with journalists, it seems. At the time I genuinely thought that was the lesser of the evils. I was really criticised for it. I didn't rape children for God's sake! I just voted for a party that I thought would be the best for the country. I really resented the reaction to it. It was an eye-opening experience, It was a mistake to talk about politics and I don't actually know much about politics. I voted Labour at last election but that was wrong, apparently! I think most people vote for what's best for them and the people they love. I haven't been smart about some of the things I said. I said I loved being a pop star and the money I earned and apparently it was tactless to say that at the time. Then it was tactless but now it's alright. How many times do the Gallaghers talk about how many millions they've earned? I'm too honest for my own good that's my trouble.
Exposure - The Best of Gary Numan 1977-2002 is out now. A new single, RIP is released in July.