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Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

Originally Posted by Your Star

I disagree with having slaves.

99% of the soldiers and sailors in Confederate service didn't own slaves. Had it been just about slavery, there's no way the people in the South would have voted for secession, much less joined the military to fight such a bloody war.

Originally Posted by Top Cat

At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

Re: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

Originally Posted by Goshin

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think that Civil War was entirely about slavery, or that the average Southern soldier was fighting FOR slavery.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Slavery was ONE issue, and yes ONE causal factor, but it was far from being the only one. It is highly arguable if it was even a primary cause, except in the sense that it affected the economy of the South and drove some of the resistance to Federal taxes/tariffs/trade restrictions that were actually key causes of the war.

The average Southern soldier was far too poor to own any slaves. Slaves were expensive. If anything, poor Southerners should have resented the institution as it gave the rich a labor pool they didn't have to pay (just feed and house), which probably undercut wages for free labor. Historically, the average Southern soldier was fighting for his State, and for State's Rights vs the central government. To Billy Bob Infantryman, slavery was a side issue, if an issue at all.

The Southern army was outnumbered 4 to 1, had not one single cannon factory compared to the North which had many, possessed no Navy to speak of, and was generally very much the underdog. Yet they won most early campaigns thanks to the strategic and tactical skills of their Generals, and to the shooting skills and ability to endure hardship that Southern soldiers possessed in abundance. These are things that Southerners take pride in... while at the same time acknowleging that our ancestors were wrong to practice slavery, and that the societal and economic weakness that a slave-economy creates was one of the primary reasons the South lost the war.

I think you'll find that looking at the big picture, instead of just one single issue, changes the perspective considerably.

Let me expand on this a little.

Gettysburg: Little Round Top. Southern infantry tried to take that hill, walking into a withering storm of enemy fire, advancing arm-in-arm as they took horrendous casualties.

Again and again, there are examples of Southern soldiers charging into withering enemy fire with incredible determination, and suffering horrendous losses.

Their battle cry was not "to maintain a luxurious standard of living for the rich plantation owners who keep slaves!" Uh, no. Men don't die for something like that.

State's rights, and the right of their home state to self-determination within its borders, was their cause, the reason they fought with such determination and willingly died in large numbers in these battles.

If you wish to argue that they were being decieved by their leadership, that's another issue we can debate.... but please do not besmirch their honor, in fighting for their home States, which they regarded with the reverence the modern American reserves for his nation.

Fiddling While Rome Burns
ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
"I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."