Another annoying MacBook Pro thread

I can always tell from Appleinsider forums when Apple is about to refresh its MBP line-up. Not from insider information released via Chinese manufacturers, but simply from themarkedly increased number of people asking two questions on AI forums: when will apple refresh its MBP line-up and what can we expect? It is almost a microcosm of the market telling Apple what it needs.

I noticed this in 2008 just before the new one-piece enclosures first broke cover and then again last year when the line-up was last refreshed. Here we are in 2011 and once again the number of MBP threads tells me that new models are imminent.

A number of factors seem to support my theory:

1. Sandy Bridge processors are out in the wild. Paul Otellini of Intel says he thinks that they are a significant step forward versus other recent processor upgrades, (of course, he would say that, but the data makes a solid case). Other manufacturers are releasing machines that incorporate SB processors. Apple has to follow suit or risk falling behind. This is especially important considering that Apple's machines are more expensive than many competitors, and also because it wants to grab a slice of the corporate market.

2. The current Core 2 Duo architecture is starting to show its age. It wasn't replaced last time around, when Nehalem processors first appeared because the arithmetic of Intel processor plus third-party graphics chip times competitive pricing didn't add up below 15" machines. Arguably, with Sandy Bridge, Apple has several new options to deliver new value machines that provide superior processor and graphics performance at reasonable prices.

3. Since 2008, the advent of movies on iTunes has chewed up a lot of disk space. Suddenly, all our hard drives are full. Our batteries are worn out too. instead of just replacing the HDD and battery with new larger-capacity ones, quite a few people are thinking: why not replace the whole machine? I know I am. As Airplay is used to stream content from one source computer to other devices, large capacity disks will be increasingly essential.

4. Apple's clever incorporation of SSD chips in the latest MacBook Air models shows that solid state memory's time has come. Instant on and greater reliability versus traditional spinning platter HDDs is likely to drive demand. But I guess it is going to be some time before the price of a 1 TB SSD approaches a competitive level! (Understatement of 2011 to date.) Given Apple's monopoly of the SSD market, it could do much to make this technology more mainstream and more accessible.

5. The writing is on the wall for the ODD. Ditching the DVD drive frees-up space for other goodies. The App Store now makes it easy to download software. We're also seeing USB memory sticks being used to store data very effectively. So who still needs an on-board DVD player? I can count the number of times I've used my DVD drive since I bought my MBP on the fingers of one hand.

Perhaps none of these factors by themselves is enough to suggest a change, but taken together, I think it is only a matter of time. I am pretty sure new machines will arrive within 8 weeks.

I can always tell from Appleinsider forums when Apple is about to refresh its MBP line-up. Not from insider information released via Chinese manufacturers, but simply from themarkedly increased number of people asking two questions on AI forums: when will apple refresh its MBP line-up and what can we expect? It is almost a microcosm of the market telling Apple what it needs.

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Perhaps none of these factors by themselves is enough to suggest a change, but taken together, I think it is only a matter of time. I am pretty sure new machines will arrive within 8 weeks.

Now just hang on a second while a put on my flame-retardant suit...

No flames from me but I would like to ask a question:
How do you tell when Apple is about to refresh its desktop lineup?

The current Core 2 Duo architecture is starting to show its age. It wasn't replaced last time around

In the 13" model it wasn't but they've kept the 15" with the i-series chips. Apple could update the 15" models alone and bump up the clock speeds of the 13" ones.

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Originally Posted by Tailpipe

I guess it is going to be some time before the price of a 1 TB SSD approaches a competitive level! (Understatement of 2011 to date.) Given Apple's monopoly of the SSD market, it could do much to make this technology more mainstream and more accessible.

Some companies have switched to 25nm so capacities are doubling and it ought to be for the same price. Whether or not the price will drop by half remains to be seen. Crucial have announced their C400 drives that go up to 512GB. Apple uses Toshiba NAND, which won't go 25nm until later this year so there may not be a huge jump but the MBA already has 256MB.

The largest 7200 rpm 2.5" you can get is 750GB now so 512GB is ok. I'm not sure when the next doubling will happen but I'd estimate within 1-2 years. Again that should be double for the same price but the manufacturers might milk it.

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Originally Posted by Tailpipe

Perhaps none of these factors by themselves is enough to suggest a change, but taken together, I think it is only a matter of time. I am pretty sure new machines will arrive within 8 weeks.

The Verizon iPhone might throw a spanner in the works but 8 weeks is as long as Apple should take to get the update out. If they put a dedicated GPU in the 13" model, that would be just swell.

If the 13" MBP does get a design overhaul, I have to question what's going to happen to the 13" MBA. It's going to be almost the same form factor and weight as the MBP but slower and more expensive. I'd expect maybe 1lb difference between the two tops.

I can always tell from Appleinsider forums when Apple is about to refresh its MBP line-up. Not from insider information released via Chinese manufacturers, but simply from themarkedly increased number of people asking two questions on AI forums: when will apple refresh its MBP line-up and what can we expect? It is almost a microcosm of the market telling Apple what it needs.

Well if you look simply at the Intel SB release the update could come anytime. If you think things like LightPeak or AMD chips are possible then it could be ages before we see an update. Further Apple could attack the iMac line first. The assumption is that the MBP will be first to update but the desktops could actually use a major overhaul.

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I noticed this in 2008 just before the new one-piece enclosures first broke cover and then again last year when the line-up was last refreshed. Here we are in 2011 and once again the number of MBP threads tells me that new models are imminent.

Well that noise wasn't loud enough to keep me form buying an early 2008 MBP. It has been a great machine though.

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A number of factors seem to support my theory:

1. Sandy Bridge processors are out in the wild. Paul Otellini of Intel says he thinks that they are a significant step forward versus other recent processor upgrades, (of course, he would say that, but the data makes a solid case). Other manufacturers are releasing machines that incorporate SB processors. Apple has to follow suit or risk falling behind. This is especially important considering that Apple's machines are more expensive than many competitors, and also because it wants to grab a slice of the corporate market.

Apple has demonstrated in the pas that they really don't give a damn about intels release cycles. New hardware will arrive when it is ready.

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2. The current Core 2 Duo architecture is starting to show its age. It wasn't replaced last time around, when Nehalem processors first appeared because the arithmetic of Intel processor plus third-party graphics chip times competitive pricing didn't add up below 15" machines. Arguably, with Sandy Bridge, Apple has several new options to deliver new value machines that provide superior processor and graphics performance at reasonable prices.

It isn't just Sandy Bridge, Apple has many options these day especially for the low end. I could even see them turning the Mac book into a 5 or $600 machine with one of AMD's fusion chips. Imagine a $500 machine with 12 hours of battery lifetime and fast SSD to boot from.

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3. Since 2008, the advent of movies on iTunes has chewed up a lot of disk space. Suddenly, all our hard drives are full. Our batteries are worn out too. instead of just replacing the HDD and battery with new larger-capacity ones, quite a few people are thinking: why not replace the whole machine? I know I am. As Airplay is used to stream content from one source computer to other devices, large capacity disks will be increasingly essential.

The problem with that motivation is that Apples storage options are usually pretty pathetic.

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4. Apple's clever incorporation of SSD chips in the latest MacBook Air models shows that solid state memory's time has come. Instant on and greater reliability versus traditional spinning platter HDDs is likely to drive demand. But I guess it is going to be some time before the price of a 1 TB SSD approaches a competitive level! (Understatement of 2011 to date.) Given Apple's monopoly of the SSD market, it could do much to make this technology more mainstream and more accessible.

This is one of the reasons I recommend to people to hold off any purchases of Mac Books, or even the Mini and the iMac. Even a small SSD set up for booting would have a significant impact on the usability of the Mini or the iMac.

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5. The writing is on the wall for the ODD. Ditching the DVD drive frees-up space for other goodies. The App Store now makes it easy to download software. We're also seeing USB memory sticks being used to store data very effectively. So who still needs an on-board DVD player? I can count the number of times I've used my DVD drive since I bought my MBP on the fingers of one hand.

Yep a dead technology as far as extremely portable Macs go. I can see the optical staying a lot longer in the 17" MBP.

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Perhaps none of these factors by themselves is enough to suggest a change, but taken together, I think it is only a matter of time. I am pretty sure new machines will arrive within 8 weeks.

Now just hang on a second while a put on my flame-retardant suit...

The new machines could come anytime between now and May. SB may be a no brainer but integrating all the other new tech might take some time. It really depends upon the new rev being more than a stop gap bump. I'm leaning strongly to a major revision and not a simple bump or processor migration.

I can always tell from Appleinsider forums when Apple is about to refresh its MBP line-up. Not from insider information released via Chinese manufacturers, but simply from themarkedly increased number of people asking two questions on AI forums: when will apple refresh its MBP line-up and what can we expect? It is almost a microcosm of the market telling Apple what it needs.

I noticed this in 2008 just before the new one-piece enclosures first broke cover and then again last year when the line-up was last refreshed. Here we are in 2011 and once again the number of MBP threads tells me that new models are imminent.

A number of factors seem to support my theory:

1. Sandy Bridge processors are out in the wild. Paul Otellini of Intel says he thinks that they are a significant step forward versus other recent processor upgrades, (of course, he would say that, but the data makes a solid case). Other manufacturers are releasing machines that incorporate SB processors. Apple has to follow suit or risk falling behind. This is especially important considering that Apple's machines are more expensive than many competitors, and also because it wants to grab a slice of the corporate market.

2. The current Core 2 Duo architecture is starting to show its age. It wasn't replaced last time around, when Nehalem processors first appeared because the arithmetic of Intel processor plus third-party graphics chip times competitive pricing didn't add up below 15" machines. Arguably, with Sandy Bridge, Apple has several new options to deliver new value machines that provide superior processor and graphics performance at reasonable prices.

3. Since 2008, the advent of movies on iTunes has chewed up a lot of disk space. Suddenly, all our hard drives are full. Our batteries are worn out too. instead of just replacing the HDD and battery with new larger-capacity ones, quite a few people are thinking: why not replace the whole machine? I know I am. As Airplay is used to stream content from one source computer to other devices, large capacity disks will be increasingly essential.

4. Apple's clever incorporation of SSD chips in the latest MacBook Air models shows that solid state memory's time has come. Instant on and greater reliability versus traditional spinning platter HDDs is likely to drive demand. But I guess it is going to be some time before the price of a 1 TB SSD approaches a competitive level! (Understatement of 2011 to date.) Given Apple's monopoly of the SSD market, it could do much to make this technology more mainstream and more accessible.

5. The writing is on the wall for the ODD. Ditching the DVD drive frees-up space for other goodies. The App Store now makes it easy to download software. We're also seeing USB memory sticks being used to store data very effectively. So who still needs an on-board DVD player? I can count the number of times I've used my DVD drive since I bought my MBP on the fingers of one hand.

Perhaps none of these factors by themselves is enough to suggest a change, but taken together, I think it is only a matter of time. I am pretty sure new machines will arrive within 8 weeks.

Now just hang on a second while a put on my flame-retardant suit...

April is the call date of new MBP being introduced.It is a shame when someone buys a brand new MBA now and this is discontinued in April.Apple should have a trade up program where you can get the newest and greatest model for a small amount of money.

April is the call date of new MBP being introduced.It is a shame when someone buys a brand new MBA now and this is discontinued in April.Apple should have a trade up program where you can get the newest and greatest model for a small amount of money.

April is iPad month. Likely notebooks will be before that. Again, the MacBook Air WILL NOT be updated unless Intel is making a special Sandy Bridge chip designed for that low power use. NO chips currently exist.

True it's been awhile but it could be much longer. The thing is one is far better off waiting unless you really need that MBP now. I say that based on the speculation of a major update. At the very least I'm expecting Sandy Bridge and the new Blade SSDs. I would not put it past Apple to intro even more tech in the new MBPs. In the end the performance differences could be stunning.

Another way to look at this is this: imagine the AIRs with a really fast processor and a dedicated GPU.

I don't think it will be too long. Apple doesn't usually wait a year between MacBook Pro updates. The average is 9 months. And we're there right now. I think we'll see new models of the MacBook Pro no later than mid-February.

You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs

With the price tags on mac's, anything still having core2duo cpu need to be refresh asap.
Apple need to stay below 2x price tags compare to same specs in the pc world. Core2duo macs are above 2x with some models being 4 times more expensive than pc's with same specs. Thats insane.

With the price tags on mac's, anything still having core2duo cpu need to be refresh asap.
Apple need to stay below 2x price tags compare to same specs in the pc world. Core2duo macs are above 2x with some models being 4 times more expensive than pc's with same specs. Thats insane.

I wish I could click a "Like" button on your post. I guess this will have to do.

You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs

With the price tags on mac's, anything still having core2duo cpu need to be refresh asap.
Apple need to stay below 2x price tags compare to same specs in the pc world. Core2duo macs are above 2x with some models being 4 times more expensive than pc's with same specs. Thats insane.

With the price tags on mac's, anything still having core2duo cpu need to be refresh asap.
Apple need to stay below 2x price tags compare to same specs in the pc world. Core2duo macs are above 2x with some models being 4 times more expensive than pc's with same specs. Thats insane.

They are not good value for money right now but it still seems to be below twice the price. For comparable specs on Newegg, it's under 50%.

The 13" MBP doesn't look too good right now though. If they take out the optical and add a Radeon 6-series GPU with an i5 CPU, that would change instantly.

It seems clear that the instant-on and performance with SSD is a good thing to go after. Intel will supply 25nm chips in February that can push prices down to $1.60 per GB. Apple currently uses Toshiba for their NAND.

Apple could price these new machines aggressively and change the lineup so that the white Macbook is replaced by the 11" Air with 128GB SSD, 2GB RAM and either the 1.86GHz C2D with 320M or i5-2537M for $999. This would have a 256GB SSD upgrade. The i5 chip arrives on 20th February:

The 13" MBA could be dropped and a new 13" MBP would arrive designed just like it except it would have a standard i5 chip and a Radeon 6-series GPU with 256GB SSD. This would have close to the same dimensions as the Air but be $100 cheaper and slightly thicker to accommodate a larger battery. It may be 0.5lb heavier.

The 15" MBP could come with a similar design again and starting at 256GB SSD up to 512GB SSD for $400 more. Putting a 2.5" bay in the 15" one would be an option though to allow people to get 1TB drives in there.

With a high-speed external interface like USB 3 or Light Peak though, it won't matter. The savings from removing the optical should allow the above lineup to happen.

I don't think it will be too long. Apple doesn't usually wait a year between MacBook Pro updates. The average is 9 months. And we're there right now. I think we'll see new models of the MacBook Pro no later than mid-February.

I just want to give people an alternative view. Plus When they do come I think we will see a major update that will be well worth waiting for. This is really key, normally I'd suggest getting when you need but I think the new machines will be impressive enough that hurting a bit while you hold off is worth it.

Of course this is speculation on my part but Steveo wasn't shy about saying that the new AIRs are indicative of new laptops to come. For my part February or March or even April don't matter as I'm not in the market this year. Well at least not till I see what the new iPad looks like.

Most of them up to Apple's $999 Macbook price have the GMA 4500 graphics not the 320M.

The cheapest C2D desktop is $475:

Yes and you usually have to replace the power supply 91 days down the road. I acknowledge that Apples prices are somewhat higher when comparing similar quality but it is no where near 4X.

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The Mini is $699.

They are not good value for money right now but it still seems to be below twice the price. For comparable specs on Newegg, it's under 50%.

For an ultra small form factor machine the Mini isn't bad at all. Certainly it could be better and usually is right after a refresh. With the new higher integration devices coming the Mini has the potential to vastly improve its capability. Plus the Mini is huge with people looking for an always on computer that wastes little power.

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The 13" MBP doesn't look too good right now though. If they take out the optical and add a Radeon 6-series GPU with an i5 CPU, that would change instantly.

It looked really good when it was released and I would expect the same when the new model is released. This is the way of most Apple hardware, they are really good values at the time of release.

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It seems clear that the instant-on and performance with SSD is a good thing to go after. Intel will supply 25nm chips in February that can push prices down to $1.60 per GB. Apple currently uses Toshiba for their NAND.

The potential is there for number of new technologies to be in the MBP and even the Mac Book, this is why I recommend that people hold off even if it hurts a bit. I could be wrong but the writing is on the wall as they say. I expect SSDs, higher resolution screens, better GPU's and a host of other new features.

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Apple could price these new machines aggressively and change the lineup so that the white Macbook is replaced by the 11" Air with 128GB SSD, 2GB RAM and either the 1.86GHz C2D with 320M or i5-2537M for $999. This would have a 256GB SSD upgrade. The i5 chip arrives on 20th February:

They could not doubt do that with the Mac Book, but I'm hoping for an alternative path. This path would have Apple building a Mac Book in the $500 dollar range for the educational market. In other words a laptop suitable for high school and some college students. They would do this by implementing AMDs Zacate Bobcat based Fusion chip in a laptop with a truncated feature set. Zacate would allow them to offer the performance required at a very low cost. It wouldn't be a powerhouse platform but would come very close to the performance of the AIRs. Plus they should be able to get extremely long battery lifetimes on the device.

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The 13" MBA could be dropped and a new 13" MBP would arrive designed just like it except it would have a standard i5 chip and a Radeon 6-series GPU with 256GB SSD. This would have close to the same dimensions as the Air but be $100 cheaper and slightly thicker to accommodate a larger battery. It may be 0.5lb heavier.

The MBP 13" is a fine idea and can distinguish itself fine from the AIRs by simply offer outstanding performance in the package. The thing is you won't be stuffing all of the above in the current 13" AIRs foot print at all, you simply need more space. Plus a suitably clocked i5 will run a lot hotter than the AIR, in fact it has to to justify the platform.

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The 15" MBP could come with a similar design again and starting at 256GB SSD up to 512GB SSD for $400 more. Putting a 2.5" bay in the 15" one would be an option though to allow people to get 1TB drives in there.

When it comes time for me to upgrade this is the most likely platform I'd purchase. Getting old and can't see myself going to a smaller screen.

To that end I'm looking for a platform that can really handle a lot of internal storage. So in this case I'm really hoping for a minimum of 4 blade slots for SSD expansion. I wouldn't mind a 2.5" bay either. People respond with shock when I mention 4 slots for blades but I see that as a reasonable minimal configuration. The blade devices are extremely small and the power profile sin't that bad. With in a year it would be easy to go beyond 1 TB of SSD with this sort of capacity.

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With a high-speed external interface like USB 3 or Light Peak though, it won't matter. The savings from removing the optical should allow the above lineup to happen.

It is unfortunate that Intel is dropping the USB ball and it looks like they dropped the LightPeak optical ball too. Steveo must be seething over this by now. It just isn't rational to throw a lot of chips onto a mother board for something that should have been integrated into the chip sets long ago.

The Opticals removal however does not depend upon any of this. Transfer rates on optical drives is so slow that todays USB isn't that bad. The big issue is finding a low power optical drive that can be powered by the USB port. USB 3 actually helps a bit here by providing more power.

In the end I'd rather carry around a spare optical when I think I might need it rather than my external drive which I need all the time. This is one of my arguments for the removal of the optical, it is simply less of a pain to cary that around when needed than to have to constantly carry a external drive around.

The cheapest C2D laptop on Newegg is $515:
They are not good value for money right now but it still seems to be below twice the price. For comparable specs on Newegg, it's under 50%.

The 13" MBP doesn't look too good right now though. If they take out the optical and add a Radeon 6-series GPU with an i5 CPU, that would change instantly.

Just want to add that i don't count the MBAir for PC'S specs comparison since its so different than a normal PC its worth its price even with its ghetto core2duo at low mhz

But imo they need to upgrade the mini, the 22" imacs, MB and MBP that are still using core2duo with SandyBridge CPU and lets hope they used the 2xxx K models on macs with no discrete GPU so at least those machine have the HD3000 gpu.

My wife PC broke but I am not buying a Mac until I have decent specs for the price. I am hoping for an i3 MBAir or an i5 mac mini. Also they need to add an option for gaming GPU on iMacs. When you pay 3K for a pc you expect to at least have an option for gaming level GPU.

I personally own an iMac with a 4850 radeon, which is still "fair" has a gaming GPU, but its struggling with the huge 2560x1440 resolution.

If you add manufacturers like Acer or Asus to the mix and dig a bit you will end up with almost 4 times the prices compare to a mac. I know quality is not there on some PC's but still...
Apple need to refresh more often to avoid getting rip off prices at the end of a cycle. Or they could lower there prices like the rest of the world does.

I think Apple needs to drop the 13" line from the low-end. If you want a professional 13", that's fine. But the fact of the matter is $999 for a 13" screen sucks. Everyone else is selling entry level computers with 15" screens for less money. Most people I talk to don't need the speed of a 15" MacBook Pro they just want a larger screen.

You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs

I would like the optical drive to go out and having a SSD for OS and apps and a HD for files,
The HD on old MacMini dual 1.66 with 2 GB RAM was giving in and I replaced it with a SSD, expecting it to be faster. I was blow away by how much faster it is There is no way I will get a mini or macbook without a SSD...

The last few weeks have ben interesting and it looks like Apple may be cooking-up something new.

First, Intel has done this cross-licensing deal with Nvidia. That means we could see Nvidia GPUs on Sandy Bridge motherboards very soon. The question is how soon? This would eliminate concerns about Intel's own and somewhat lame GPUS as well as the cost and packaging issues associated with adding a third-party GPU to Sandy Bridge processors.

Second, Apple has announced this $3.9 billion deal with a key supplier to ensure the reliable supply of new tech. I bet this is SSD. I'm pretty sure that next generation macBook pros will get SSD hard drives as standard. I wonder what capacities they'll be? Personally, I'd like my next MBP to have at least 512 GB and preferably 1TB SSDs.

Third, Steve himself has said that the latest MacBook Air is a blueprint for future Apple notebooks. As already noted, this probably means that on-board DVD drives will be deleted on next gen MBPs. My guess is that next gen MBPs will look exactly the same as the current crop but will be much, much thinner.

Fourthly, there's talk of a 15" MacBook Air. This sounds insanely cool. If it runs a powerful SB processor and GPU and has up to 1 TB hard drive memory, it will sell like hot cakes. in reality, it may just be a next generation 15" MacBook Pro. Whatever it is, I want one.

In summary, the longer Apple puts off the refresh, the more likely we are to see a new chassis design. Bring it on.

The last few weeks have ben interesting and it looks like Apple may be cooking-up something new.

First, Intel has done this cross-licensing deal with Nvidia. That means we could see Nvidia GPUs on Sandy Bridge motherboards very soon. The question is how soon? This would eliminate concerns about Intel's own and somewhat lame GPUS as well as the cost and packaging issues associated with adding a third-party GPU to Sandy Bridge processors.

Second, Apple has announced this $3.9 billion deal with a key supplier to ensure the reliable supply of new tech. I bet this is SSD. I'm pretty sure that next generation macBook pros will get SSD hard drives as standard. I wonder what capacities they'll be? Personally, I'd like my next MBP to have at least 512 GB and preferably 1TB SSDs.

Third, Steve himself has said that the latest MacBook Air is a blueprint for future Apple notebooks. As already noted, this probably means that on-board DVD drives will be deleted on next gen MBPs. My guess is that next gen MBPs will look exactly the same as the current crop but will be much, much thinner.

Fourthly, there's talk of a 15" MacBook Air. This sounds insanely cool. If it runs a powerful SB processor and GPU and has up to 1 TB hard drive memory, it will sell like hot cakes. in reality, it may just be a next generation 15" MacBook Pro. Whatever it is, I want one.

In summary, the longer Apple puts off the refresh, the more likely we are to see a new chassis design. Bring it on.

Intel/nvidia's deal is not about that.

The $3.9B deal is with three vendors, not one, that can mean anything in terms of parts, flash chips could be one part of the deal, then there's hirez displays, batteries, whatever...

Surely some of the MBA features will found their way to other notebooks: the lack of DVD, solid-state storage, hirez displays, tapered design, multi-part batteries,... but that doesn't mean those new notebooks will be much, much thinner (you still need big batteries to power regular voltage cpus and dedicated graphics). The MBA solid-state blades look to be less expensive than the SSDs used in other Macs, so I expect some notebooks to get 128/256GB blades in the future, probably up to 512GB this year. 1TB SSD/blades from Apple? Probably not before 2012 at a reasonable price.

Rumors about a 15" MBA have existed for a long time (since the launch of the original MBA), if released (as a MBA in 2011) it will certainly not have a "powerful" SB cpu, dedicated gpu and 1TB of solid-state storage. LV cpu, very efficient gpu (probably integrated), 128/256GB blade, $1799?

As far as the "delay" perceived of the new MBPs, let's not forget that mainstream mobile SB cpus (dual-core i5 and i7) are not avaialable yet. February 20. So a march release is probably the best we can expect.

If there's one Mac that needs a redesign ASAP, it's the 13" MBP. Even if people seem to like it very much. In fact, Apple should keep it as the new alu MacBook for 2011 at $999/1199 (white MB EOL'd) and create a brand new 13" MBP using some features from the MBA as described above.

I think Apple's own marketing slogan for the MacBook Air says it all: 'The next generation of MacBooks'...

For me, the new MacBook Air represented some clever thinking by Apple (outwith the actual product design itself).

Apple is continuing to move away from third party industry standard components which they have to buy in and which to a large degree force their hand from a product design perspective, and toward Apple designed components produced for them by third parties which have already been tied into 'massive advanced orders at knockdown prices' agreements.

Apple have pre-ordered both LCD panels and flash/RAM in massive quantities, and I believe that the new MacBook Air is the first generation of MacOS hardware to benefit from these deals. Apple has ditched industry standard SO-DIMMs and 2.5" drives in favour of their own components, thereby allowing them greater flexibility from a product design perspective and also allowing them realise some massive savings. Dell still has to buy their components off-the-shelf at contemporary prices.

The price point of the new MacBook Air was significantly lower than I was expecting, and in particular I didn't expect to see SSDs of that capacity, and LCDs of that quality at that price point. How many other products at that price point have that battery life, SSD capacity and an LED backlit screen of that quality? That's before we even get into MacOS vs. Windows!

What if Apple were to resist the temptation to price-gouge (a break from historical data I know) and instead choose to compete where their competitors simply can't compete? They no longer have to buy in hard disk drive and optical drive mechanisms from third parties who don't have Apple's own buying power. Applications and content can now simply be downloaded from Apple's own digital stores directly to flash components and LCD panels which were pre-ordered years ago. No PC World. No Seagate.

There's nothing to stop Apple producing a next-generation MacBook Pro with both 16GB of RAM soldered onto the motherboard and one of their 512GB SSD stick drives at a price that their competitors simply couldn't get anywhere near.

I guess the next step is for Apple to enter into similar 'pay-up-front' deals with Intel and Nvidia/ATI, or simply expand their own 'A' processor developments...

...ultimately Apple want to reduce their cost base and cut-out the middle men. Devices like the iPad and the new MacBook Air are the clearest examples of this business model. Apple are making the content consumption devices and making a cut on the content itself all without having to pay a cut to middle men.

Smart business. Yeah, I think it's clear what the next generation of MacBooks will look like!

Yeah I think its time for them to get rid of some models. They have too much overlap going on, not enough clarity.

The new MBA is clearly working. Consumers don't need or want disc drives, and if they do they have some options.

Too many different overlapping 13" models at around the $1100 price point. You have a 13" model in each category, MB, MBA and MBP. I think the holiday quarter where they all existed simultaneously was the test run, who was buying what and why. They couldn't simplify before now because they couldn't be sure how people would take to the new MBA models. Now they know.

I say it's time to retire the vanilla macbook. It is no longer relevant, Apple would do better by focusing on and improving the MBA as its entry level notebook line. They don't even offer a blackbook model anymore, what's the point of this model now?

Get rid of the 13" MBP. Again too much overlap and not enough clarity. Besides the 13" MBP is hardly pro enough for most people's tastes, its just a compromised MBP missing some of the higher end features. They made this model because people missed their baby powerbooks, well the 11" MBA takes care of that category quite nicely.

Reduce the 6 models to 4. They would have 11 and 13" MBA, and 15 and 17" MBP. Very clear and distinct models that would allow Apple to focus and innovate better. We know Apple operates best when they have fewer models that they can focus on and really make each one best of breed. I don't want to see them wasting their time or ours with 13" macbook or MBP models that probably aren't selling well anyway, at least compared to the MBA.

Yeah I think its time for them to get rid of some models. They have too much overlap going on, not enough clarity.

Where did that idea come from? Walk into any Apple store and take one look and you should realize that there is very little overlap. The plastic Mac Book isn't well positioned these days but that can be addressed by going after the low cost market , that is build a $5-600 laptop. In fact I'd have to say that each model line is fairly well positioned these days.

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The new MBA is clearly working. Consumers don't need or want disc drives, and if they do they have some options.

AIRs are great for people that where already in the market for a netbook sized laptop that performs well. However I have to dismiss your comments about disks or storage. Storage is something many consummers want.

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Too many different overlapping 13" models at around the $1100 price point. You have a 13" model in each category, MB, MBA and MBP.

You must be a small guy because you are too focused on size. There is very little actual overlap going on with the 13" models. Honestly look at the spec sheets and the other factors.

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I think the holiday quarter where they all existed simultaneously was the test run, who was buying what and why. They couldn't simplify before now because they couldn't be sure how people would take to the new MBA models. Now they know.

Sales of current AIR models means nothing. It has barely been 90 days which means early adopter sales and pent up demand.

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I say it's time to retire the vanilla macbook. It is no longer relevant, Apple would do better by focusing on and improving the MBA as its entry level notebook line. They don't even offer a blackbook model anymore, what's the point of this model now?

Sorry but $1000 is not entry level for a low end notebook. Apple really needs a lowend notebook somewher around $5-600. Like it or not that would be entry level.

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Get rid of the 13" MBP. Again too much overlap and not enough clarity.

BS, not even worth discussing beyond that.

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Besides the 13" MBP is hardly pro enough for most people's tastes, its just a compromised MBP missing some of the higher end features. They made this model because people missed their baby powerbooks, well the 11" MBA takes care of that category quite nicely.

Then make it more pro like.

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Reduce the 6 models to 4. They would have 11 and 13" MBA, and 15 and 17" MBP. Very clear and distinct models that would allow Apple to focus and innovate better. We know Apple operates best when they have fewer models that they can focus on and really make each one best of breed. I don't want to see them wasting their time or ours with 13" macbook or MBP models that probably aren't selling well anyway, at least compared to the MBA.

I would love to see Apple offfer up a rigged laptop or two. Somthing like the Toughbooks. That is a laptop designed to handle the abuse of field work. I'd be the first to admit that Mac Laptops are more durable than normal but durable isn't rugged.

Now with Apples current approach to machine construction, that is CNCing the chassis out of a block of Aluminum, it shouldn't be that difficult to build a beefed up chassis. What you would be looking at is a stronger bottom cover plus a lid that protects the screen better. Possible a screen made of Gorrilla glass. A few changes may be required to the internals also. In the end the goal is a laptop that can take more aggressive use than the current models.

Now I realize that many will say something to the effect of "ugly" or that the market is to small but I don't buy it. First; ugly is in the eye of the beholder and this market cares more about devices that put out rather than look good. Admittedly the market is small but then that hasn't stopped big companies like Panasonic from playing there. In any event I see it as a valid opportunity for Apple.

Beyond that Apple needs to implement laptops with built in 3G/4G support. I'm not sure why the AIRs didn't get this as they are the models most likely to be used on the go where a cell connection would be valuable. I'd actually like to see this as a feature of current models but would settle for additional models. Whatever they do though it needs a card slot and it needs to be unlocked so that one can use the platform anywhere at reasonable rates.

These are two examples where Apple could fill out their current line up of laptops. I'm sure others could come up with other needs that might be profitable for Apple to fill. Whatever, the last thing they need to do is to make the line up more limited. Laptops are still hot so they need to pay attention there.

Walk into any Apple store and take one look and you should realize that there is very little overlap.

Walk into any Apple store and you'll quickly realize the iOS tables are far more busy than the MacOS tables.

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The plastic Mac Book isn't well positioned these days but that can be addressed by going after the low cost market , that is build a $5-600 laptop.

Apple already did this, the Apple way, with the iPad. Now you want them to make a notebook to compete with the iPad? Just... ugh.

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AIRs are great for people that where already in the market for a netbook sized laptop that performs well. However I have to dismiss your comments about disks or storage. Storage is something many consummers want.

Clearly false, as evidenced by both MBA and iPad sales.

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You must be a small guy because you are too focused on size.

5'11" is small? I suppose if you're 6'2".

Seriously though, below the belt. No need to make it personal... friendo.

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There is very little actual overlap going on with the 13" models. Honestly look at the spec sheets and the other factors.

Disagree once again. There's alot of overlap, as in, they're all priced about the same and they're all 13", yet only one of them is actually popular.

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Sales of current AIR models means nothing. It has barely been 90 days which means early adopter sales and pent up demand.

Maybe. But how long does Apple need to sit on its hands before it should make this decision?

The rest of what you say is just more of the same.

Look, I provided my opinion of what I think Apple ought to do with their highly confusing, overlapping and unnecessary 13" models: simplify them. At least one of them is not needed, but I think they could get rid of 2 and instead just have one really good 13" model. I happen to think the 13" MBA provides the blueprint. Real pro people will always want the 15 and 17" models anyway. No need to pretend like the 13" MBP is actually pro.

I also think what I'm saying falls in line with the way Apple thinks and their own statements. They have often said they prefer to simplify, streamline, and focus on fewer models. They make better products that way. Their words not mine. Right now they have 6 sizes or types of macbook with 3 of them being 13" models, even though they each have different enclosures and innards. In the case of 2 of them, for almost no good reason.

They don't need more models. How many model of cell phone did they need to dominate the industry? 1. How many iPods? At it's height, 4. 6 macbook types? They don't sell enough macbooks to justify that, and its not helping them.

You don't have to agree with what I'm saying, but don't trash me personally or act like I'm saying something far out there. Apple makes it clear the way they think and I think I'm interpreting the intentions correctly.

The $3.9B deal is with three vendors, not one, that can mean anything in terms of parts, flash chips could be one part of the deal, then there's hirez displays, batteries, whatever...

Surely some of the MBA features will found their way to other notebooks: the lack of DVD, solid-state storage, hirez displays, tapered design, multi-part batteries,... but that doesn't mean those new notebooks will be much, much thinner (you still need big batteries to power regular voltage cpus and dedicated graphics). The MBA solid-state blades look to be less expensive than the SSDs used in other Macs, so I expect some notebooks to get 128/256GB blades in the future, probably up to 512GB this year. 1TB SSD/blades from Apple? Probably not before 2012 at a reasonable price.

Rumors about a 15" MBA have existed for a long time (since the launch of the original MBA), if released (as a MBA in 2011) it will certainly not have a "powerful" SB cpu, dedicated gpu and 1TB of solid-state storage. LV cpu, very efficient gpu (probably integrated), 128/256GB blade, $1799?

As far as the "delay" perceived of the new MBPs, let's not forget that mainstream mobile SB cpus (dual-core i5 and i7) are not avaialable yet. February 20. So a march release is probably the best we can expect.

If there's one Mac that needs a redesign ASAP, it's the 13" MBP. Even if people seem to like it very much. In fact, Apple should keep it as the new alu MacBook for 2011 at $999/1199 (white MB EOL'd) and create a brand new 13" MBP using some features from the MBA as described above.

I didn't realise that mainstream SB mobile CPUs weren't coming until February. That being the case, you must be right about a March release date.

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought that the Intel/Nvidia deal was exactly about Intel being able to use Nvida's GPUs in its processors. Whatever the future holds for this partnership, I'd be interested to know what GPU/GPU combination you think Apple will offer in its i5 and i7 line-up. It doesn't look like Apple will use Intel's own on-board GPUS but instead choose a third-party one.

I think you're right about the 13" MacBook Pro needing to be redesigned. I'd like it to offer exactly the same functionality/ performance advantages of the 15" MacBook Pro but in a 13" case. The difference should only be size not performance. Many power users, yours truly included, just don't want to lug around a heavy 15" slab. Of course, as soon as you junk the on-board DVD drive, the 13" MBP overlaps all the more with the 13" MacBook Air. Standard SSDs would be great, but 128 Gb just isn't enough. It'll need to have 256 Gb min with 512 Gb as a BTO option.

Without doubt, however, 13" is a sweet-spot for Apple's laptops. They combine decent screen size with low weight. A 15" MBA would offer the same advantage, but it might have enough extra room to accommodate a SB processor? Whatever it Apple offers, it can't afford to get it wrong. To me, this suggests greater future choice not less.

What I can't make-up my mind about is whether the MBP line-up will get a redesign now or at the next refresh.

What I can't make-up my mind about is whether the MBP line-up will get a redesign now or at the next refresh.

We have not heard a word about this from any one. It's all just a guess. In the past, AI or MacRumors, or 9 to 5 Mac, or even Gruber would have some tidbit of info on a redesign. But nothing. So that inclines me to think that it's just going to be the Sandy Bridge update with perhaps the flash storage from the Air.

You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs

The present unibody configuration is about 2-3 years depending upon the model...perhaps a thinner lighter update coming. Retinal or high resolution display for next MBP....maybe 3D. Similar SSD configuration as in MBA except higher capacity...256 - 512 GB. Still see optical drive since photo and video pro's will want to burn dvd/cd's for distribution and storage of photos and videos. 17" hopefully will keep its Express Card/34 slot. Not sure if it is feasible to have a liquid metal cast unibody? Casting cheaper that milling a body from a solid block.

無心The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey

sorry to bring this thread back, but a friend of mine recently spilled water over my 2007 mbp, causing everything to die (power won't even turn on anymore).
i was already ready to purchase a new mbp 15in due to sandy bridge release, hoping it would come out soon, but now i am in desperate need of a new computer.

with the current mbp specs with core i7 2.8 processor and 256gb ssd, 4gm of ram (buying the 8gb upgrade from newegg instead of from apple website), will i see an obvious difference in speed with the same specs of the upcoming mbp15in with the sandy bridge motherboard? hoping the current nvidia included graphics is at least comparable and not so much different in the recent mobile graphics processors that may be installed in the new mbp.

im a regular college student, and i'd at least like to run crysis 2 (when out) and diablo 3 at very high settings.

sorry to bring this thread back, but a friend of mine recently spilled water over my 2007 mbp, causing everything to die (power won't even turn on anymore).

I hope you don't have to many friends like that. He better compensate you at least a little bit even if that simply means sharing a PC.

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i was already ready to purchase a new mbp 15in due to sandy bridge release, hoping it would come out soon, but now i am in desperate need of a new computer.

This really hurts because as a college student you can't wait more than a few days. You might not have a choice.

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with the current mbp specs with core i7 2.8 processor and 256gb ssd, 4gm of ram (buying the 8gb upgrade from newegg instead of from apple website), will i see an obvious difference in speed with the same specs of the upcoming mbp15in with the sandy bridge motherboard?

The difference could be anywhere from minor to very significant. It depends upon your software usage. In some cases Sandy Bridge will be very fast.

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hoping the current nvidia included graphics is at least comparable and not so much different in the recent mobile graphics processors that may be installed in the new mbp.

Most likely they will go ATI/AMD even if they don't the possibility is for a huge speed up. It is not like MBP are bleeding edge graphics machines as it is.

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im a regular college student, and i'd at least like to run crysis 2 (when out) and diablo 3 at very high settings.

There is no such thing as a regular college student. Since we don't know your major we can only comment on gaming. In that regard the coming machines are likely to have stronger GPU performance.

It actually sucks that you are in a bind here. Of course you already know this and it has to be even worst to realize that new MBP are probably a month or two away. The only other thing to do besides buying now is to find a temporary solution. It could be a couple of months before the MBPs are available.

I hope you don't have to many friends like that. He better compensate you at least a little bit even if that simply means sharing a PC.

This really hurts because as a college student you can't wait more than a few days. You might not have a choice.

The difference could be anywhere from minor to very significant. It depends upon your software usage. In some cases Sandy Bridge will be very fast.

Most likely they will go ATI/AMD even if they don't the possibility is for a huge speed up. It is not like MBP are bleeding edge graphics machines as it is.

There is no such thing as a regular college student. Since we don't know your major we can only comment on gaming. In that regard the coming machines are likely to have stronger GPU performance.

It actually sucks that you are in a bind here. Of course you already know this and it has to be even worst to realize that new MBP are probably a month or two away. The only other thing to do besides buying now is to find a temporary solution. It could be a couple of months before the MBPs are available.

actually, computer problem is solved with the old drying with rice trick. luckily im asian and have uncooked rice available. thanks! lets continue with the waiting of mbp!

Don't hold your breath. I remember when the first MacBook Air arrived, people were expecting a new MacBook Pro to follow almost immediately after. It took almost a year. I don't expect any kind of redesign until October 2011 at the earliest. In short, the next revision will in all likelihood be no more than a speed bump with a tasty Sandy Bridge filling and the DVD drive still sandwiched between the keyboard and battery.

If there is a major change this time round, however, it will be SSD. I certainly think that is a step in the right direction. (The improved screen resolution is a given.)

I have been in the market for a new Macbook for about 6 months now, but I am happy to wait until April. I know that the Macbook Pro cycle is 208 days, and we are at 288 now. Frankly, I would like to see Apple move to a yearly product cycle in all of their channels. That way I know exactly when an update is coming and can plan accordingly.

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Originally Posted by herbapou

With the price tags on mac's, anything still having core2duo cpu need
to be refresh asap.
Apple need to stay below 2x price tags compare to same specs in the pc world. Core2duo macs are above 2x with some models being 4 times more expensive than pc's with same specs. Thats insane.

I don't like the specs game, and I think we should move past it. Don't get me wrong, I used to be very guilty of it. Specs in the "pc world' are a joke though. Apple has spent 35 years building a software and hardware ecosystem that proves computing is about way more than mhz and gigaflops. The pc world is constantly updating systems with relatively marginal improvements, releasing laptop models like HP's "Pavillion DMZ1" series to the "DM3Z" series. There is no innovation, just a change in model numbers every month to drive sales. What a joke. I'm worried pc hardware manufactures are actually going to run out of number/letter combinations.

Don't hold your breath. I remember when the first MacBook Air arrived, people were expecting a new MacBook Pro to follow almost immediately after. It took almost a year.

In this case we know that mobile Sandy Bridge parts are expected to be delivered in February. So yeah that means it is likely a couple of more months if Apple goes with SB at all.

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I don't expect any kind of redesign until October 2011 at the earliest. In short, the next revision will in all likelihood be no more than a speed bump with a tasty Sandy Bridge filling and the DVD drive still sandwiched between the keyboard and battery.

Why do you suspect this. Apple will have to redesign the motherboard for SB so it would make sense to move to new tech throughout the machine. Besides SB is a major step up it would be silly to build it in as a speed bump.

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If there is a major change this time round, however, it will be SSD. I certainly think that is a step in the right direction. (The improved screen resolution is a given.)

Is that not enough to wait for right there? Seriously if they put in three or four slots for those blade modules don't you think that is a major improvement right there. SB with blade SSDs would impress me alone and be reason for an update.

As to screen resolution I would not expect anything drastic until resolution independence comes to the Mac. A little better might be possible but they have to watch human factors here.

There is always the possibility that you are right but honestly I think the coming update will be major. Things are converging in such a way that much in the way of new tech could be folded into the MBPs.

I actually think fixed yearly cycles are a bad thing for Apple. For one it forces delivery before a product is ready. We have seen this with iPhone and iOS releases.

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Originally Posted by clickmyface

I have been in the market for a new Macbook for about 6 months now, but I am happy to wait until April. I know that the Macbook Pro cycle is 208 days, and we are at 288 now. Frankly, I would like to see Apple move to a yearly product cycle in all of their channels. That way I know exactly when an update is coming and can plan accordingly.

Non sense if Apple approximated 365 day releases you would not be sure of anything because even the I devices aren't released on that tight of a schedule. On top of that Appple would never be able to assure updates in sync with vendor releases. Schedules do slip.

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I don't like the specs game, and I think we should move past it. Don't get me wrong, I used to be very guilty of it. Specs in the "pc world' are a joke though.

Complaining about Core 2 in the new AIRs is a joke too. First they aren't that expensive for what you get. Second they are often compared with machines carrying Intel integrated graphics. Often these guys end up looking foolish.

Specs are important, don't get me wrong. The problem is many people don't know what they are talking about. Arguements about the Mac Pro and it's price seem to forget just what type of a machine it is. It may or may not be expensive depending on your needs. If you can't digest the specs then you really don't know how to compare the hardware.

The problem is people often see the price on the AIR or some other Apple computer and think gee that is expensive. Maybe it is for their needs but not everybodies needs are the same. Besides today you can by a Mac and outfit it with much cheaper software so in the end it's net cost is less.

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Apple has spent 35 years building a software and hardware ecosystem that proves computing is about way more than mhz and gigaflops. The pc world is constantly updating systems with relatively marginal improvements, releasing laptop models like HP's "Pavillion DMZ1" series to the "DM3Z" series. There is no innovation, just a change in model numbers every month to drive sales. What a joke. I'm worried pc hardware manufactures are actually going to run out of number/letter combinations.

Nah they will just use alternative languages.

Not to make light of your point because you are correct to an extent. They same motherboard often ends up in different chassis, some times several different ones. On the other hand Apple needs to move out of it's design rut, especially with desktops. One element in growth is attracting customers with needs you can't current meet. That means new products. Apple isn't perfect either.