I think my favorite thing about this is those are tweets from, you know, a private company, and then I found the link to his post about Obama privatizing (in the second tweet) through my… facebook feed, with their awesome record of privacy.

If we want to talk about a “bullshit parade,” I’d say Greenwald’s “the NSA is WATCHING YOU RIGHT NOW ZOMG OBAMA DEAR LEADER” style of reporting is the star of that parade in a walk. Just my opinion. But Cesca thinks there’s no difference between an 18-month metadata storage period and a 5-year period? That seems…like bullshit. He has a point that there’s no reason to think telecoms are any more trustworthy with private data than the government, though. If the choice is between companies having it for 18 months or the NSA having it for 5 years, I’ll take the former. Which is what Obama is proposing, so that works for me.

The “he told me about Obama privatizing via a private company” remark smacks of “Al Gore flew in a plane, so he should shut up about global warming” though.

Yeah, that’s kinda where I fall. I really don’t want anyone storing my personal communications, whether corporations or government. This is a step in the right direction, but I’m one who trusts the NSA more than I trust Google or AT&T. That is, I don’t trust any of them but I trust corporations much, much less.

What is everyone talking about? I don’t trust corporations either, but this was all corporate information to begin with. Corporations transferred their metadata to the NSA, mostly (I think) because the corporations didn’t want to store it for 5 years and the NSA did. Now the corporations will just hold on to their data which was theirs to begin with, and the NSA will access it only through court order.

If GG supports these changes does that make him knee-jerk supporter in the Obama Cult? No, because he credits himself with discernment he doesn’t give to others.

I’ve long felt this to be the most sensible solution. I mean the phone companies already this information anyway, since they’re the ones who created / compiled it in the first place. Not to mention your local police dept can access this information easily, there still being no expectation of privacy in it.

Here we go again. The most annoying thing about this whole kerfuffle is Cole’s insistence that “Everyone knows Greenwald is right, but some people reflexively attack him because they’re so far up Obama’s butt.”

It’s unpossible to him that anyone could have a substantive argument with GG.

@geg6: “but I’m one who trusts the NSA more than I trust Google or AT&T.”

The profound depth of dumb of views like this – extremely popular here! – just hurts. Comparing the wrongs of corporations – which can do much wrong – to *governments* is a kind of violent and painful ignorance. Just astonishing.

Daniel Ellsberg, just stepping along some stones in this same stream of thought and politics, revealed wrongs about *war*. About death, killing, maiming, and murder, on a massive scale, over a prolonged period of time – years. These are *government* wrongs.

And you Cesca fucktuks do your kindergarten tantrum how corporations are just as bad, and ask us to treat you like serious contenders for the truth in this. Just fuck you.

Indeed. The Administration proposes curbing the power of the NSA, so Cesca decides to go on a rant about the power of private corporations. He doesn’t want to mention that if the proposal succeeds:
– The NSA won’t be routinely collecting your data.
– Phone companies won’t be required to keep the data for any longer than they normally would.
– A new form of court order will be required for the NSA to access that data.

And of course our very own wingnut wackos infest this thread to make it all about Greenwald.

Corporations are eroding democratic values at every turn and these people are pissing their pants over privacy.

It’s on the list but it’s not anywhere near the top. Let’s feed some kids and get the fucking rich assholes out of education and also maybe stop wrecking women’s access to healthcare, then we can argue about the intricacies of privacy. Also, too, this is still better than when Hoover was blackmailing everyone.

Except that the reforms directly result in corporations – which are not even nominally subject to the democratic process – having more control over the data.

Which might matter, if the corporations did not already have the data. News flash: NSA does not generate data; phone/isp/corporation does. Any limitation (especially the time frame) on NSA is an improvement, because the corps have and store the shit already.

I just don’t get why we’re shooting at each other when we have an election to worry about. If the case in front of SCOTUS doesn’t scare us into action, then there’s no hope for our side. If the assholes who attacked Gore and proclaimed both sides to be the same had the foresight to think about the ramification of a republican presidency, we wouldn’t be worrying about bunch of reactionaries deciding women’s right to access contraception.

I know, I am going OT but this just depresses the heck out of me and Cole’s juvenile tweets just made me even more depressed.

I’d rather the NSA store my data than corporations. But corporations already store it now, so it’s not much of a change. The net effect on the NSA will be minimal. But if it soothes the braying asses on the left and right, fine by me.

And you Cesca fucktuks do your kindergarten tantrum how corporations are just as bad

I agree completely, but FWIW I think that some folks here have that view because they are self-centered. They care that Verizon knows about their every visit to a porn site, but don’t give a flying shit about what the NSA is doing as long as they are left alone, because they know that they are not personally planning to blow anything up.

but I’m one who trusts the NSA more than I trust Google or AT&T. That is, I don’t trust any of them but I trust corporations much, much less.

Hells yeah, ’cause Ma Bell might send you an extra ad or spam. While the NSA, under a repub prez, might get your ass sent to Egypt to find out why you made that call. Now you’re ok, unless you like to fly.
Jebus.

@Elizabelle: Yes, exactly right. Also, shouldn’t their job today be to report accurately on the arguments and questions, and not throw in their own subjective feelings and guesses? (I would say the same if the headlines were “Justices lean against Hobby Lobby” or “Court likely to rule Obamacare trumps corporate religious beliefs.”)

No, I’m fairly certain the effect on the NSA will be minimal. They already play by the rules. They will just have to play by new rules.

And I really, really don’t care that the NSA “knows” these things about me (i.e., my phone call metadata) since I’m positive no one at the NSA actually does. That is, no one has actually searched on it.

I’d rather the NSA store my data than corporations. But corporations already store it now, so it’s not much of a change. The net effect on the NSA will be minimal. But if it soothes the braying asses on the left and right, fine by me.

Making NSA go to a judge to access data would effect the NSA enormously. Which makes your snotty finish even funnier.

Cesca’s article says that Obama’s proposal would “force” private companies to maintain data. According to Kevin Drum’s synopsis, they wouldn’t be required to maintain it any longer than they normally would.

Does anyone know which one of them is correct? Under Obama’s proposal, could a company say “We’re only going to maintain these records for 90 days from now on,” would Obama’s proposal prevent that?

Cesca’s article says that Obama’s proposal would “force” private companies to maintain data. According to Kevin Drum’s synopsis, they wouldn’t be required to maintain it any longer than they normally would.

Does anyone know which one of them is correct?

As reported so far, Drum is correct. Things could change.

Charlie Savage has got to be considered the authority so far, I think (unless updates have already come?):

Under the proposal, they said, the N.S.A. would end its systematic collection of data about Americans’ calling habits. The bulk records would stay in the hands of phone companies, which would not be required to retain the data for any longer than they normally would.

You should stick to posting pictures of your cat and talking about your mid life crisis wr0ng way Cole. Your are just embarassing yourself doubling down on your love for Griftwald and trying to argue with actual adults.

One thing I can guarantee you, if you are putting all your eggs in your Griftwald basket you are going to end up looking really dumb!

My finish may be snotty, but having to go to a judge will not “effect the NSA enormously”. I haven’t seen any evidence to the contrary. Mostly it’s Americans who seem to believe the NSA is all about spying on Americans when that’s not even close to the truth.

Any target that has significant contact in the US will get a warrant and then the NSA will be home free to search on his metadata. I can’t imagine it’ll be much of a delay. More of an inconvenience while the analyst does something else for a day waiting on the warrant. Oh, noes!

since Greenwald has been doing a lot of the Snowden reporting, Cesca and the reactionaries at Little Green Footballs have been having an absolute meltdown the past few months and continuously embarrassing themselves (more than usual).

And before you do the expected assholery fuckery regarding the 2nd link: No. The fact that the NSA found and reported (to themselves) their own wrongdoing does not make those (thousands of) wrongdoings okay.

* He likes being despised; he craves it, in fact.I think he’d rather be hated than loved, as a matter of fact. He seems to live for confrontation and getting under people’s skin (or I guess it’s more popular these days to say “contrarianism,” whatever the fuck that means). But really, indifference is really the way to go with him. If you despise him, you’re paying attention to him, which is what he wants and needs. If you just don’t give a shit what he’s constantly on about, then he can’t have an impact on you. YMMV.

@LT: There’s a little bit of deflection in there. The NSA is going to pay the phone companies to store the data as long as the NSA wants. The phone companies will gladly do this as the NSA becomes just another paying customer.

My concern about government knowing this shit is partially related to the chilling effect this has on any attempt of a hypothetical reporter trying to protect his/her sources when investigating the guvmint.

I guess that the effect would also be chilling if the hypothetical reporter was trying to investigate Google and Google had their info but Google doesn’t have its own NSA, FBI, etc. So MUCH less chilling.

There will be no investigative reporting in future if it is not credible to expect a reporter to be able keep an informant’s identity secret.

Cesca is obsessed with GG IMO (a bit like Rachel Maddow is obsessed with Christie or was). I have commented once at his site and IIRC it was in response to a post where he wondered if Greenwald worked for the NSA (or CIA). I wrote that *I* sometimes wondered if he, Cesca worked for the NSA or CIA. one of his minions told me to fuck off, I think.

Answer is: Because corporations don’t have drones that can blow your ass up with a hellfire missile if the president decides you’re some vague kind of “threat.”

Yeah, because that is certainly a legitimate threat to the average upper-to-middle-class white American who is suddenly so concerned about collection of cellphone meta data. It seems like everyday now that the president is using drones against all those “vague kind of threats”…. It’s perfectly rational and even prudent to spend time and energy worrying about that…

If you don’t want a phone company to have your calling records … well, don’t have a fucking phone. Because, y’know, they print your call records on a piece of paper (if you still opt for detailed paper billing that is).

@askew: yeah, I googled the bullshit parade and it goes around Cole’s block frequently. I am waiting for the “Charmin is not really soft and you are all idiots for buying it” post. We are due for one of those.