If it's purely because of $$$, then that's not reassuring. That would make his prior statements look even more ironic and hypocritical.

but, if Zimmer comes out and says he met with Snyder, read the script/story ( saw footage, etc. ), and became inspired to score the film, then that would be a positive sign.

If he needed to see the script and treatment of the story to make a decision... well, I mean, he has worked on movies before... wouldn't he know he had to see some of the project before coming out saying 'No, no, no, unequivoically no'?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalMart

He doesn't need the money or the fame...probably helped to say no at first, and no doubt that it called more attention to 'following' Williams.

Well, we know people with money want more money. And many times the more they have the more they want. Not saying it's Zimmer's case but it is very common.

And well, it's too bad he didn't want all the Williams comparison yet all he did with his previous statement was putting people's attention on that. Lesson to be learned there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalMart

It is, and it must have took some convincing from a creative standpoint. At first, it was easily passed off as 'Yeah, Nolan convinced him'. But there's probably more to that than just Nolan asking. I think there had to be some major mulling over by both of them, because honestly, if I were Zimmer and had carved out a name and reputation for my music by myself, I wouldn't want to step into something that already had a wonderfully established musical signature like Williams' Superman...out of both respect for Williams' stuff and for my own uniqueness as well. Completely understandable gut reaction. And not even if tons of money were thrown at me because I've already got plenty of work and interest, and frankly I don't want to be known for just picking up on something that already has someone else's creative stamp on it for the money....like U2 doing a cover or tribute album or the like.

But...if later on, after more insight on it with someone I've worked well with before, and I felt that like them, I could go into the project as if it were the first one ever, and I had confidence in them that they could pull it off...I might reconsider. I might realize that the movie will be much more different than I may have assumed before without as much knowledge about it, that it's like here never was another Superman movie before much like when we did BB, and yeah even though I feel Williams Supes score is more iconic tan Elfman's Batman one...I can probably still do my own very different things with it. That's what looks like happened.

So, he should think first, know the project and then give an answer.

Hope he learned that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Knight

I hope it's not simply about money or because Nolan asked him to do it. I want Zimmer to be passionate about the project.

I mean, it is a pretty big challenge to take on the Williams theme.....it's so iconic.

I do wonder if there will be hints of the Williams theme in Zimmer's score. When I listen to the TDK score, there are parts where I can hear hints of the Elfman theme.

Are there hints to Elfman in TDK?

He said that people asked him for that before TDK but that he wasn't going to do it. Well, not like Zimmer is a man of his word.

There was nothing wrong with saying no and why he said no at the time. It was a decline for artistic reasons (and didn't he also mention a scheduling conflict?), not a malicious act expression of condemnation of the project as a whole. Just like there's nothing wrong with reconsidering for artistic reasons.

Or...he just wasn't officially attached yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Knight

I hope it's not simply about money or because Nolan asked him to do it. I want Zimmer to be passionate about the project.

Yes, and he probably wouldn't have taken it on if he didn't now feel that. And why would Nolan want him on if he didn't?

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Knight

II mean, it is a pretty big challenge to take on the Williams theme.....it's so iconic.

I do wonder if there will be hints of the Williams theme in Zimmer's score. When I listen to the TDK score, there are parts where I can hear hints of the Elfman theme.

It certainly is, but I think the key is the realization that the movie and everything about it isn't taking on what came before, it's starting its own thing. And the music is kinda' the final piece to that puzzle...giving this new Superman its own unique cinematic signature. It probably took some time to finish the work on TDKR (which is huge) on both his and Nolan's ends to come together and reconsider.

I don't think there will be any hints of Williams stuff except as perceived by those who would be actually looking for it. Heck, it may be a major scale led by strings in the orchestration...aha, that's Williams!

There was nothing wrong with saying no and why he said no at the time. It was a decline for artistic reasons, not a malicious act expression of condemnation of the project as a whole. Just like there's nothing wrong with reconsidering for artistic reasons.

Here’s the historical context ():

Sometime in 2010, NBC San Diego posted a quick story on Zimmer. In discussing his presumed participation in TDKR, the topic of MOS was raised.

“…had to ask Zimmer’s opinion on a burning question, whether he works on [MOS] or not: do you re-employ John Williams’ theme for the Man of Steel, one of the most lauded scores in film history, or do you start anew with a fresh, fully original score?”

“It's a hard one,” mused Zimmer, “but I followed one of the most iconic things on 'Batman' with Chris as well, and it's the same thing. You are allowed to reinvent, but you have to try to be as good or at least as iconic and it has to resonate and it has to become a part of the zeitgeist. That's the job. On 'Gladiator' I remember people always talking about 'Spartacus' and I kept telling them, 'When you saw "Spartacus" and how it affected it you, that's how I want a modern audience to be affected by what we do now.' So I think ultimately you're supposed to reinvent.”

I would suggest that this represents Zimmer’s real attitude. At that point, he had no connection to MOS; so he was free to give an utterly honest response to the hypothetical question - a professional appraisal that would apply to any composer who eventually accepted the challenge to follow Williams.

Citing this interview, Entertainment Weekly (lacking, apparently, comprehension skills) announced that Zimmer would, in fact, be scoring MOS. And this news quickly spread around the blogosphere.

Subsequently, The Hollywood Reporter interview appeared wherein Zimmer issued his denial. In it, he seemed a tad frustrated by the false rumors and even mentioned that his former publicist (who had recently been murdered) would normally have nipped these rumors in the bud. So I think you have to take Zimmer’s categorical denial in the context of this frustration and his personal (tragic) circumstances. Moreover, Zimmer’s “so that’s unequivocally a no” could very well be interpreted as a repudiation of the EW announcement - and not, necessarily, that he was forever closing the door to any participation in MOS. This was an interview for a trade magazine. He wasn’t being cross-examined in a court of law.

Last edited by Dr.; 06-27-2012 at 03:29 PM.
Reason: that would be 'comprehension' not 'compression' ;)

Sometime in 2010, NBC San Diego posted a quick story on Zimmer. In discussing his presumed participation in TDKR, the topic of MOS was raised.

“…had to ask Zimmer’s opinion on a burning question, whether he works on [MOS] or not: do you re-employ John Williams’ theme for the Man of Steel, one of the most lauded scores in film history, or do you start anew with a fresh, fully original score?”

“It's a hard one,” mused Zimmer, “but I followed one of the most iconic things on 'Batman' with Chris as well, and it's the same thing. You are allowed to reinvent, but you have to try to be as good or at least as iconic and it has to resonate and it has to become a part of the zeitgeist. That's the job. On 'Gladiator' I remember people always talking about 'Spartacus' and I kept telling them, 'When you saw "Spartacus" and how it affected it you, that's how I want a modern audience to be affected by what we do now.' So I think ultimately you're supposed to reinvent.”

I would suggest that this represents Zimmer’s real attitude. At that point, he had no connection to MOS; so he was free to give an utterly honest response to the hypothetical question - a professional appraisal that would apply to any composer who eventually accepted the challenge to follow Williams.

Citing this interview, Entertainment Weekly (lacking, apparently, compression skills) announced that Zimmer would, in fact, be scoring MOS. And this news quickly spread around the blogosphere.

Subsequently, The Hollywood Reporter interview appeared wherein Zimmer issued his denial. In it, he seemed a tad frustrated by the false rumors and even mentioned that his former publicist (who had recently been murdered) would normally have nipped these rumors in the bud. So I think you have to take Zimmer’s categorical denial in the context of this frustration and his personal (tragic) circumstances. Moreover, Zimmer’s “so that’s unequivocally a no” could very well be interpreted as a repudiation of the EW announcement - and not, necessarily, that he was forever closing the door to any participation in MOS. This was an interview for a trade magazine. He wasn’t being cross-examined in a court of law.

Absolutely, but especially in places like here, his non-involvement at the time is taken as some sort of condemnation of the project altogether, so it apparently rubs people a certain way....implying for some that he was finally onvinced by, of all things, money.

Sometime in 2010, NBC San Diego posted a quick story on Zimmer. In discussing his presumed participation in TDKR, the topic of MOS was raised.

“…had to ask Zimmer’s opinion on a burning question, whether he works on [MOS] or not: do you re-employ John Williams’ theme for the Man of Steel, one of the most lauded scores in film history, or do you start anew with a fresh, fully original score?”

“It's a hard one,” mused Zimmer, “but I followed one of the most iconic things on 'Batman' with Chris as well, and it's the same thing. You are allowed to reinvent, but you have to try to be as good or at least as iconic and it has to resonate and it has to become a part of the zeitgeist. That's the job. On 'Gladiator' I remember people always talking about 'Spartacus' and I kept telling them, 'When you saw "Spartacus" and how it affected it you, that's how I want a modern audience to be affected by what we do now.' So I think ultimately you're supposed to reinvent.”

I would suggest that this represents Zimmer’s real attitude. At that point, he had no connection to MOS; so he was free to give an utterly honest response to the hypothetical question - a professional appraisal that would apply to any composer who eventually accepted the challenge to follow Williams.

Citing this interview, Entertainment Weekly (lacking, apparently, comprehension skills) announced that Zimmer would, in fact, be scoring MOS. And this news quickly spread around the blogosphere.

Subsequently, The Hollywood Reporter interview appeared wherein Zimmer issued his denial. In it, he seemed a tad frustrated by the false rumors and even mentioned that his former publicist (who had recently been murdered) would normally have nipped these rumors in the bud. So I think you have to take Zimmer’s categorical denial in the context of this frustration and his personal (tragic) circumstances. Moreover, Zimmer’s “so that’s unequivocally a no” could very well be interpreted as a repudiation of the EW announcement - and not, necessarily, that he was forever closing the door to any participation in MOS. This was an interview for a trade magazine. He wasn’t being cross-examined in a court of law.

So, he couldn't just say "What EW said is wrong. I'm not involved" like many other people have said?

So, he couldn't just say "What EW said is wrong. I'm not involved" like many other people have said?

Given your disappointment in the man, I guess he should have. Bad Zimmer. As I said, perhaps he was frustrated at having to issue these sorts of denials (normally handled by his publicist) and he didn’t express himself with the utmost tact or clarity. The interview appeared only 3 weeks after Ronni Chasen’s murder.

Not at all. I guarantee you no one knows Zimmer's Batman theme if you ask them to hum it.

Oh, I was referring to the score in general, not to any signature “theme” (or lack thereof). Something that’s humable may be important for a top 40 hit. But it’s not the only criterion by which movie music can be judged. First and foremost, a score’s allegiance is to the movie - its visuals, its mood, its themes.

Play a few seconds of it and I could probably recognize Vangelis’s atmospheric score to Blade Runner. But I can’t hum it. Does that mean it’s bad?

Oh, I was referring to the score in general, not to any signature “theme” (or lack thereof). Something that’s humable may be important for a top 40 hit. But it’s not the only criterion by which movie music can be judged. First and foremost, a score’s allegiance is to the movie - its visuals, its mood, its themes.

I've been referring to the hero's theme specifically.

Quote:

Play a few seconds of it and I could probably recognize Vangelis’s atmospheric score to Blade Runner. But I can’t hum it. Does that mean it’s bad?

I'm not the right person to ask anything about Blade Runner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Project862006

and nsyder also said he had no interest in directing man of steel aswell

he said he was hesitant about the project and would'nt know how to approach it or how to make him relevant to today's modern audience and it was'nt till he met with nolan and his wife and heard thier take that he was interested

he said he was hesitant about the project and would'nt know how to approach it or how to make him relevant to today's modern audience and it was'nt till he met with nolan and his wife and heard thier take that he was interested

But you're implying that it's a sign of inferiority, when it's only a preference/taste...and one that doesn't make the film feel lacking. Also, the fact that the music isn't as melodic-based/more atmospheric doesn't make it worse or even less apt by default. Even if there's isn't a conventional/hummable 'hero's theme', there's certainly recognizable and moving musical representation of it that film-wise functions just as effectively.

If anything, it was rather unique that the score didn't have the obligatory fanfare-like cues signaling the hero's presence.

They may have said it. But I could never see how it could be considered a full reboot.

Pretty much for one main reason for me:

M - played by Judy Dench since Goldeneye in 1995.

Judi Dench is too badass to replace...so I could overlook that. But they seem to be replacing her finally with Ralph Fiennes.

__________________
"Well, aside from the need for corrective lenses and a tendency to be abducted by extraterrestrials involved in an international governmental conspiracy, the Mulder family passes genetic muster."
-Fox Mulder

If's selfish I know, but I do want a score that sticks in your mind. I mean the Terminator score is not fanfare but it's still very recognisable.

__________________

Quote:

I’ll go out and I’ll find some more of that Mulan Szechuan teriyaki dipping sauce, Morty. Because that’s what this is all about, Morty. That’s my one-armed-man. I’m not driven by avenging my dead family, Morty. That was fake! I’m driven by finding that McNugget sauce. I want that McNugget sauce, Morty. That’s my series arc. If it takes nine seasons, I want my McNugget dipping sauce — Szechuan sauce, Morty.

"Play a few seconds of it and I could probably recognize Vangelis’s atmospheric score to Blade Runner. But I can’t hum it. Does that mean it’s bad?"

I'm an experienced musician myself and I definitely pay attention to a movie's score. Plenty of movies have great scores that successfully support the movie without having a specific theme, or at least a theme that's spelled out for you, but just being subtle or recurring in different variations. Or a theme you cant necessarily hum to because it consists of several different harmonizing notes that only work together, if you follow.

Having said that MOS definitely needs some recognizable themes ala Williams', but with a contemporary sound and approach. Zimmer would need to create something more "sing-along"-like, than he did for Batman. That's a given. MOS is a big-scale space operatic adventure and not a moody crime-noir action-thriller.
Not every character needs it's own theme though, but a couple of recurring main-themes would be preferable. A main-theme also being Superman's theme. This theme might also serve somewhat as a basis for the music for the Krypton-scenes. Then a villain-theme with a Zod-motif variation maybe.
Maybe down the line Clark would get his own theme, in different variations to serve each of the Clark-personas. And of course, something you could call romantic theme, or a mellow-Clark theme.

But the only themes I would want spelled out for me is the Superman-theme and the villain-theme. The rest should be subtle.

__________________"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new"

The context of Zimmer saying no isn't what you're assuming, though. As the original interview pointed out, he was rumored to have already signed on, and that wasn't true at he time...which is why he was so adamantly saying no. It wasn't a statement of desire or interest. And again, his comment about Williams was out of appreciation for that work and its timelessness, not that it'd be worthless to even score any Superman movie ever again.

It's clearer in the full article/interview. He hasn't backpedaled on anything, really.