Salesman just showed up with a new Lion bus today to look at. It looked ok one good thing is the bus side is not multiplexed and looked neat and clean. The drivers area is a bit cheesy its got a removable trash can built into the dash. Its wider 104" at least what the sales rep said. The lower skirts are some kind of composite but are removable pretty easily and the rest is fiberglass. Dont think we will buy another bus first yr out but with a cummins engine and a non multiplexed bus side its not to bad just thought some of you guys would like to know.

It's a 102" wide body, same as most city transit buses, motorcoaches, etc. What did you think about the wider aisle? That's a huge benefit, lots of people like that.

Skirts are TPO, a plastic, used commonly for car bumpers. Benefits are easy replacement, and colored yellow all the way through, so scratches aren't unsightly. There is a steel rubrail at the bottom, and steel gussets supporting the skirts, so they are quite strong.

Glad to hear you got to see the bus in person, it really is well built, and simple to work on. The Spartan chassis is a dream to drive. Here in New York there are also endless benefits with regards to corrosion.

This bus, although it looks as if it is as good or better than the other three, will have a hard time making it in the market today. With limited funds districts and contractors will not want to put money out for a product they have no idea weather or not if it will be here in few years. This might be like a Tucker in that the good ideas that they have will be adopted by the other companies.

A little more market discussion here. What do you guys see the future looking like in the bus market? Will all three majors be around 10 years from now? My opinion says that either Thomas or IC will be sold or dissolve all together. My logic is with a shrinking market the larger companies that own them will want to divest in order to make their balance sheet look better. Where BB is owned by a companiy that have a wide variety of interests and will not have the pressure to divest it. I am just comparing this to the ag. industry in the 80s where you had giants like IH and Allis Chalmers collapse and small "short line" companies (say like Bush Hog and others, for instance) stay in business. Just my two cents.

My opinion says that either Thomas or IC will be sold or dissolve all together.

Oh lord, PLEASE don't say that. Quality is bad enough on all three of the big players, prices too...imagine what it would be like if there were no competition at all. The last one standing would be free to rape us on new units, parts and quality.

My opinion says that either Thomas or IC will be sold or dissolve all together.

Oh lord, PLEASE don't say that. Quality is bad enough on all three of the big players, prices too...imagine what it would be like if there were no competition at all. The last one standing would be free to rape us on new units, parts and quality.

True enough. I wouldn't say two would go out though, just one. Heck it might be Blue Bird, who knows. Just from history though I think it's going to be one of the two that is owned by a company that is less diversified and IC and Thomas fit that template. Not that a loss in sales in just the bus market would be enough to put them out of business. It would be a loss in sales across their sector. Another good example, besides IH and AC, would have been White. They were fairly diversified with engines, large trucks, ag equipment, and construction equipment. When the trucking industry went south they drew money from the ag side and then when the ag side went south they divested Cummins then Freightliner and then finally the wheels came completely off and the whole ship went down. I just think the executives today are smart enough to divest before it gets to that point. Thanks for sparing with me. Just wanted to bring up some interesting conversation, that's all.

One issue that the Thomas rep stressed to me on bids that he has is Thomas has to buy the chassis if they could work out a better deal it might tip the scale. I mean the amount of engine issues IC has and don't forget about the IC built 6.0L fiasco I would see navistar going under if there is going to be one. Right now I wouldn't mind trying a few lions at least my cummins dealer isn't scared of there motor and Ive never heard the words your the only one having that problem.

Looked up Lion bus on Wikipedia and they say Spartan has a hand in the chassis. I also see on Wikipedia that Spartan was in on the Carpenter bus. Boy I hope the Carpenter doesn't come out in this thing. It's interesting to see that you can get a brochure from any bus company, on line, about their product except Lion. What's up with that? It just says contact them for additional information.

Blue Bird is owned by a private equity group. So some comparisons here I feel may be a bit off.

With that said. I believe all of the big 3 bus builders are on solid footing, knowing full well that the industry will likely never recover to its biggest numbers of the 90s and 2000s. Is it possible that one of the big three will sell out? Absolutely. Out of business? Doubtful.

As for Lion. Spartan does not have ownership in Lion. They are simply the exclusive chassis provider. And the body is lightyears ahead of Carpenter. No comparison. E-mail them for a brochure! Or better yet, see if you can get a bus to your facility.

Great discussion. I also have tried for two years to find information on the Lion Bus.

Since I retired from school bus ownership over a dozen years ago I wanted to continue being vocal about the problems our industry has not addressed. When I saw the Thomas press release last Friday, (11/16/ 2012) I was compelled to respond remembering years past.

Go to the top of this page and click on NEWS and scroll down to the winter picture. (Thomas Addresses Corrosion Protection Concerns). My post is #1 on the bottom. It angered me that it has taken this long for our industry to openly report on a major problem. Do you suppose the materials used in the LION BUS had anything to due with the THOMAS decision? I think so.Dwight DSBSI LTD

Yeah, it would be neat to see one. I would love to see how much plastic is really on it. I have a few design changes I'd like to see as well. It would be neat to see if they changed some of them. Wonder if they have a cheap plastic dash like the ICs have? Man, I hate them dashes!

^^ Spam!! ^^ Wonder why these morons do this? I know, I know, it's to make money. I doubt anyone who reads this forum is dumb enough to actually buy something from this guy. lol Well, the spam was removed (good job guys)so I guess I better clarify that Richbusman is not a spammer. lol