(12-02-2013 04:48 AM)glueparkenigma Wrote: Leaving the fact that money and so taxed are just made up concepts, and the fact that all men are created equal, if we accept the fact that paying tax somehow makes the person more worthwhile to society (ie they get the privilege to vote) then surely it follows the people that pay more tax should get more votes than other lower taxpayers and so control the political system and eventually who can pay taxes to keep themselves in power.

Sure beats having those who do not pay taxes to maintain our systems having power over those that do.
Right?
Regards
DL

Still undefined who you think these people are... All that's come out is you thinking those on welfare shouldn't get to vote. Perhaps you're missing the reality though, people in welfare still pay taxes. Not an income tax, but when you say taxes as a flat term your point is dull..

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson

(12-02-2013 08:51 AM)Logica Humano Wrote: And so your idea is to sit back and refuse to do anything? Your idea is to start a revolution? Oh yes, that has worked out well in the past.

I don't have any answers, nor can I offer any alternatives... doesn't mean I have to support this shitty system we all live under.

It means you must accept that the "system" is all we have and that you must work in order to have this "system" in your favor if you want to have what you want. It aggravates me when people speak as though we no longer have a say in what the policies are or what the debate is about. If you really want to know what that feels like, move to the middle east or any festering dictatorship in Africa.

The issue is not a bad system. The issue is poorly educated individuals and religion.

(12-02-2013 12:47 PM)Logica Humano Wrote: The issue is not a bad system.

Depends to what you compare it to.

Compared to sanity, it stinks.

Compared to others -- yes, it could be worse.

Does it mean that we have to love it?

What is sanity? Is it accepting reality for what it is, or dwelling in an alternate world and dreaming that things could be better? But I never said you had to love it, I said you had to accept it and work with it if you ever want things to improve.

Yes, and? This system is what you have to live with, use it to make things better. Never did I say change was impossible, I said it had to be done within the constraints of what is realistically possible, practical, and viable.

1. You can be a hero/martyr and bleed on the barricades, trying to change things and, even if you managed at great cost to yourself, see the change undone again by the next guy who gets the power (and desire) to undo it.

2. Ignore the system, live your own life without hurting anyone, helping anyone next to you, as much as you can, and hope for the best.

3. Anything in between 1. and 2.

PS. If I were a lot younger, I would probably do Option #1, even with all my knowledge and experience in my head. When I was a lot younger (and a lot more innocent), that is exactly what I was doing. However, those of us who grew old and have seen most of it are resigned to the inevitable currents of history, sweeping us ahead of it or rolling over us. I am dreadfully sorry for most young people today, especially those with young children.

1. You can be a hero/martyr and bleed on the barricades, trying to change things and, even if you managed at great cost to yourself, see the change undone again by the next guy who gets the power (and desire) to undo it.

2. Ignore the system, live your own life without hurting anyone, helping anyone next to you, as much as you can, and hope for the best.

3. Anything in between 1. and 2.

PS. If I were a lot younger, I would probably do Option #1, even with all my knowledge and experience in my head. When I was a lot younger (and a lot more innocent), that is exactly what I was doing. However, those of us who grew old and have seen most of it are resigned to the inevitable currents of history, sweeping us ahead of it or rolling over us. I am dreadfully sorry for most young people today, especially those with young children.

#1) Change must be slow, systematic, and peaceful to most accurately address change. Rapid deployment of a solution rarely ends well.

#2) You have successfully created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I am sorry, but as a 19 year old, I see no justification for #1 at all. I see no sense and no progress, but rather extremists and useful idiots. Both cynics and idealists need to come to compromise for anything to work.

I am sorry, but as a 19 year old, I see no justification for #1 at all. I see no sense and no progress, but rather extremists and useful idiots. Both cynics and idealists need to come to compromise for anything to work.

...
When you are young, you think you have all the time in the world for "slow, systematic", but you don't really.

Two eye-blinks and you will be my age, as I used to be your age a long time ago.

However, I understand and respect your attitude and hope for the best for all of you young people facing the future.