Two Charts That Show Why Politicians Are Trying To Crucify Applehttp://www.businessinsider.com/two-charts-corporate-tax-avoidance-revenue-offshore-2013-5/comments
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Fri, 18 Aug 2017 02:08:51 -0400Walter Hickeyhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/51a2e7c969bedd6907000039Alan Carl BrownMon, 27 May 2013 00:57:45 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51a2e7c969bedd6907000039
There's nothing wrong with companies pursuing their own interests in a legal manner. The problem is with how our representatives are selected, not the mess created by selecting them so badly.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ce8c06bb3f7967200000dJimmy ColemanWed, 22 May 2013 11:48:16 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ce8c06bb3f7967200000d
This is where a big chunk of American dollars have went. Just because a ton of companies does this doesn't make it right. This should be on the front page of every American newspaper as well as a running tab of these companies "off shore" monies.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ce31169bedd605500001bBwinWed, 22 May 2013 11:24:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ce31169bedd605500001b
Why focus on Apple. How about companies like Exxon?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ce29d6bb3f7456700000cBwinWed, 22 May 2013 11:22:05 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ce29d6bb3f7456700000c
Individual income tax remains flat, but an individual's payroll tax has risen. Corporate income tax has dropped but their payroll tax burden has risen. Seems to me the burden of taxes has been pushed to employed folks the most. Also looks like a long term trend. It's discouraging to hold a job and be responsible for all that tax burden when corporations fail to adequately participate. Perhaps working individuals should be able to deduct their payroll taxes just like corporations do.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cd58f6bb3f7514f000002IshmaelWed, 22 May 2013 10:26:23 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cd58f6bb3f7514f000002
Lost the argument? Obviously you don't consider facts,the truth or reality when you maker decisions. It's a common affliction among people who call themselves "conservatives".http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cc6406bb3f7c2330000021100ccWed, 22 May 2013 09:21:04 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cc6406bb3f7c233000002
If "the social and physical infrastructure" were the only things the Government spent our tax dollars on, your argument would be easier to swallow. But it goes far beyond that. The Government sees it is its job as assuring equal outcomes for all regardless of effort input or capability, and as such they spin ever more convoluted ways to confiscate and redistribute wealth honestly earned. Not to mention redirecting it to their corporate sponsors who keep them in office.
And the answer to every single problem the Congress is ever called upon to address? Add to the tax code! Make sure that favored groups pay less tax and non-favored ones pay more!
Read more: <a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/two-charts-corporate-tax-avoidance-revenue-offshore-2013-5#ixzz2U1l4Sdkm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.businessinsider.com/two-charts-corporate-tax-avoidance-revenue-offshore-2013-5#ixzz2U1l4Sdkm</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cc600eab8ea920e0000041100ccWed, 22 May 2013 09:20:00 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cc600eab8ea920e000004
If "the social and physical infrastructure" were the only things the Government spent our tax dollars on, your argument would be easier to swallow. But it goes far beyond that. The Government sees it is its job as assuring equal outcomes for all regardless of effort input or capability, and as such they spin ever more convoluted ways to confiscate and redistribute wealth honestly earned. Not to mention redirecting it to their corporate sponsors who keep them in office.
And the answer to every single problem the Congress is ever called upon to address? Add to the tax code! Make sure that favored groups pay less tax and non-favored ones pay more!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cc2e3eab8ea2d0100003f1100ccWed, 22 May 2013 09:06:43 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cc2e3eab8ea2d0100003f
I think it's simpler than that Walter. I think we're looking at a basic pissing contest here. Apple is the biggest and most prestigious company in the USA. The money they make could nearly pay the deficit every year. And they are in effect thumbing their corporate nose at the Congress, who invented this very convoluted tax system that lets Apple get away with this.
If Congress is so upset about this, they need to address it by FIXING THE CODE. Alas, I am convinced that Congress will, as always, learn the wrong lesson.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cc01aecad04d82b0000071100ccWed, 22 May 2013 08:54:50 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cc01aecad04d82b000007
Point 1: I believe he said OBAMA CARE levies the surtax, not OBAMA levies it.
Point 2: To-MAY-to / To-MAH-to! The net result is the same.
Point 3: You mean less THAN, not less THEN.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cb61d69bedd8f63000005hmficWed, 22 May 2013 08:12:13 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519cb61d69bedd8f63000005
When people use the Constitution and the Founding Father thingie, I have to laugh! You do understand that back in 1776 about 90% of Americans were basically farmers. With that mindset inplace you'd be happy that America today would be on par with Afghanistan. I would also add that these taxcode loopholes are far more modern.
The Founding Fathers were the wealthy aristocrats of their time. Their concerns were more self serving in their best interests and many, profited from slavery. as well as paying less to England and more into their bank accounts. I assure you these politicians of then are the same as today!
I applaud Apple too. I also wouldn't blame them, until you begin to understands that these taxcodes that allowed such abuses didn't write themselves and inplace for that purpose, to think someone wasn't gaming the system is rather naive. Like everything else follow the money.... Who was behind the repeal of Glass-Steagal? Wall St. who profited? Wall St.
So tell me how many Corporations have been killed or wounded defending America? Explain how these Corporate entitlements are fine and peachy but for the people not so much. Is it just "business" for Corporations who profited greatly from the WWI,WWII, Korea, Cold,Vietnam,Iraq and Afghanistan and then just dump the cost upon the American people in both blood spilled and taxes? Go to a VA Hospital, and visit our soldiers and those who have been hospitalized for the 20, 30, 40 and 50 years and explain to them why Corporations should profit.... and they are an evil entitlement program.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c9c0769bedda42b000001hmficWed, 22 May 2013 06:20:55 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c9c0769bedda42b000001
Your Priceless! If anyone could extract a nugget of stupidity... It would be from someone who knows of nothing else. Kudos, you're king! Thanx's!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c298cecad04d90c000008mmcaelthTue, 21 May 2013 22:12:28 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c298cecad04d90c000008
why is it a CRUCIFIXION when wealthy corporations (or people) are required to contribute to the public good? SOMEONE has to pay for the social and physical infrastructure which made their success possible. If they do nor pay their fair share of the tax burden, YOU and I ARE THE SCHMOOS WHO HAVE TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE!
So far, the score is the "CRUCIFIED", 1: the" LITTLE GUYS", 0. Isn't it about TIME FOR A CHANGE???http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c267feab8ea1a2c00000bmmcaelthTue, 21 May 2013 21:59:27 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c267feab8ea1a2c00000b
Why does it become a CRUCIFIXION when very wealthy companies (and individuals) are required to contribute money to the public good? Somebody has to pay for the social and physical infrastructure which made their success possible. IF THEY DON'T PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE, you and I HAVE TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE!
So far it has been LITTLE GUYS 0, THE CRUCIFIED 1. Isn't it about time for the crucified to pony up their fair share?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c1b8eecad043171000002noloTue, 21 May 2013 21:12:46 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c1b8eecad043171000002
hmfic, your posts are priceless. there is always a nugget of stupidity in them to make a person smile.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c18ab6bb3f7506b000006zunguriTue, 21 May 2013 21:00:27 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c18ab6bb3f7506b000006
"Why even have the race to the bottom. Just drop it to zero."
That's the best suggestion I've read here! I agree with john1066 that the corporate tax rate should be ZERO.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c15dbeab8eac90c000001hmficTue, 21 May 2013 20:48:27 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c15dbeab8eac90c000001
Mitt Romney and the Supreme Court FIXED this!!! If Corporations are People.... THEN TAX'EM like people!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c0aceecad045a4e00000eMarcossaTue, 21 May 2013 20:01:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c0aceecad045a4e00000e
You forgot the chart showing political donations by Apple.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c009d6bb3f7b839000014deBeeTue, 21 May 2013 19:17:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519c009d6bb3f7b839000014
Figure 2 shows what's wrong with where we are today: according to the Constitution as written by the Founders, the Federal Government should be running itself ONLY on the brown and red sections at the very top of the chart. Everything else - payroll taxes, corporate taxes and individual income taxes - the Founders would consider confiscatory and tyrannical theft from US citizens.
Congress would not be trying to "crucify" Apple in a hunt for money, if the Constitution had not been amended to permit confiscatory taxation. Apple is not doing anything immoral, nor illegal. It's seen as "evil" because it's simply trying to keep as much profit as possible - as any individual can do under our byzantine tax code.
If Congress didn't have to keep trying to pay for the unsustainable entitlement culture that is totally unconstitutional according to the Founders, Apple would be applauded for providing such excellent products and generating so many jobs around the world. The prospect of Congress "grilling" a business through aggressive questioning, as part of a fear-inducing shakedown racket, would be appalling and disgusting to the men who started this nation.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519be7ffeab8eac11c000019james9310Tue, 21 May 2013 17:32:47 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519be7ffeab8eac11c000019
You are correct---
In the first line, isn't it clear that my discussion is about "relative changes" in the proportion of taxes from each category?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519be5c769beddc869000003Erich KuerschnerTue, 21 May 2013 17:23:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519be5c769beddc869000003
"Since the government is perpetually in a state of perceived fiscal crisis, it would be ideal to raise revenues from companies that are percieved as "tax dodgers" rather that turn the screws on actual people who can legally vote.
That's why the Senate is trying to screw with one of America's best companies. "
Really?? Than why is GE,. the postchild for offshore tax evasion not being prosecuted?
Oh, wait. GE is a big part of government. Apple is not.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519be16769beddd960000001Ford PrefectTue, 21 May 2013 17:04:39 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519be16769beddd960000001
Large US corproation are doing much more business overseas than they were several decades ago. The rules are set up so that if they sell products abroad, they don't have to pay US income tax - so they don't.
The US would probably be better off with lower corproate tax rates, policies to encourage payment of dividends (which then get taxed immediately), repatriating offshore cash, and investing in capital infrastructure in the US.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519be09fecad04ad03000005GimletTue, 21 May 2013 17:01:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519be09fecad04ad03000005
The 2nd chart shows the types of taxes as percentage of all the federal revenues collected. It doesn't tell you what fell or rose in terms of $$ collected.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bde7869bedd9f5600000ctjnTue, 21 May 2013 16:52:08 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bde7869bedd9f5600000c
One of the reasons APL doesn't want to pay their shareholders dividends is they would have to pull some of their offshore case back to the states to fund the dividend. Why do think APL floated their bonds this year. It's not like they don't have the cash. Just the cash is sitting overseas.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd64f69bedd283f00001eRita MooreTue, 21 May 2013 16:17:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd64f69bedd283f00001e
N - That's the fundamental fallacy of the "trickle down economics" or "business-led growth" models. The problem is that even as corporate revenues explode, a shrinking portion of those revenues are being shared with employees. The number of jobs is shrinking (certainly in the US) and those jobs that are being created tend to be low wage. Existing employees have seen virtually NO increase in pay scales (adjusted for inflation) for the last 30 years. All of which has contributed to the phenomenal expansion of the income and wealth gaps between the richest 2% and the rest of us. Meanwhile, the wealthiest individuals, like corporations, use accounting techniques to outsmart tax mechanisms, so the burden of funding the public sector falls increasingly to individuals, further degrading their financial stability. Businesses benefit hugely from government services - infrastructure, investments, national security, fire, police, schools, etc. etc. - yet pay an ever smaller proportion of the costs to maintain those essential services. States and localities are going broke, as are individuals, while corporate profits achieve historic highs, extracting benefits from the rest of us and refusing to pay their fair share of the burden.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd51b69bedd483c000017will-coTue, 21 May 2013 16:12:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd51b69bedd483c000017
Lambasting Apple's legal tax strategies isn't going to serve any purpose, especially when it's clear every other company able to afford a first-rate tax attorney is seeking the same aggressive forms of tax relief Apple is. Besides, the corporations are running the show in Washington, D.C. these days. That should be obvious to anyone paying attention.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd28c6bb3f7fc65000007WillTue, 21 May 2013 16:01:16 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd28c6bb3f7fc65000007
It's a shakedown. Apple isn't on this list:
<a href="http://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topcontribs.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topcontribs.php</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd271eab8eaeb70000001jaemsxxxxxxxTue, 21 May 2013 16:00:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd271eab8eaeb70000001
US tax regime on profits earned overseas is totally f*cked up and it is 100% the fault of the IRS and US government.
A) America is the only piece of shit Imperialist country to put corporate taxes on all profits earned overseas - even after those profits have taxes levied upon them in the regimes wherein the actual work and revenue is done. The American tax code - much like American foreign policy - assumes that 'the Earth = America'. Nobody else does this. Same thing for personal taxes.
B) American corporate taxes are too high, the highest in the industrialized world.
C) Business in America is shit. Business in the 'rest of the world' outside of Europe is doing well. It makes sense that profits overseas are hot.
D) Fuck off with your 'overseas profits = offshore tax shelter' communist bullshit.
To fix the problem:
1) Americans should only tax income derived in America - and then impose a small levy on repatriation of overseas profits: JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER COUNTRY.
2) Set the corporate tax rate at 20-25%, as currently, US has this shittiest highest corp taxes in the world.
3) Close the loopholes.
4) Make it clean, transparent, and predictable.
5) All of you, for once in your f*ing lives, take a look at what is going on outside of your borders for once, because so many things that are truly and completely f*ed up in America are actually done very well outside the country. America is a great nation, but it's totally ridiculous how insulated you people are - I mean, it's almost a joke - even your best and brightest are completely ignorant of so much.
6) You should strongly consider decoupling 'healthcare' from 'employment' - it's a crazy kind of de-facto payroll tax that's an anachronism that's really hurting all of you - of course, easier said than done.
Will it happen?
Unlikely.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd1a869bedd5d36000004Rita MooreTue, 21 May 2013 15:57:28 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd1a869bedd5d36000004
Apple may be a highly profitable company that has produced multiple innovations, but if it fails to fulfill even the most minimal obligations of citizenship - contributing its fair share to the common welfare - then it can't claim to be an "American" corporation. The fact that its official HQ is in America and its leaders are American doesn't make the corporation American. In fact, the essence of the modern corporate structure is precisely to be a stateless enterprise. All of which makes the Citizens United decision granting civil rights to corporations all the more galling. National governments need to think out of the existing taxation box to design taxation mechanisms that can't be so easily circumvented by clever accounting.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd10cecad045461000006David ConleyTue, 21 May 2013 15:54:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd10cecad045461000006
So...let me get this straight...
Congress makes the tax rules, then gets upset when a company like Apple plays by those rules and doesn't pay taxes?
Idiot Congress....
Just think what our national debt would be like if Congress made ALL corporations pay their taxes!
Won't ever happen, however. Congressmen are bought and paid for by corporations.
This country is doomed. I get the USA another 100 years of life.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd10b69beddc63000000chstad6Tue, 21 May 2013 15:54:51 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bd10b69beddc63000000c
Don't disagree about the politicians desire for public optics! But on this subject of taxes, "..Europe lite.." is not a good metaphor. 26 out of 35 OECD countries have minimal taxes levied on repatriation of profits to their home country. I think the reverse of "...Europe lite..." would be in order here for the U.S.! The U.S.'s tax code is ancient!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bcfcb69bedd532d000010hstad6Tue, 21 May 2013 15:49:31 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bcfcb69bedd532d000010
Math is not one of your strong points? 3.8% on money over $250,000 generates substantial revenues for the government. Let's make it easy for you! The surtax(3.8%) of someone making $500,000 is $9,500. While someone making $35,000 pays a 15% rate which generates $5,250. Therefore, the surtax generates more income for the government than someone's entire income taxed at the lower level. But you already knew that - it is dogma and emotion with people like you 24/7! Facts will never get in your way!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bcd4cecad04b05a000018hstad6Tue, 21 May 2013 15:38:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bcd4cecad04b05a000018
"...The country is so f'kd if you people cant see this...."! After reading you nonsensical screed and the garbage you write, I agree with your highlighted comments! Get a life loser!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bcbec6bb3f70a57000007NTue, 21 May 2013 15:33:00 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bcbec6bb3f70a57000007
But if companies make more money and then those individuals who work there make more money but then they also have to pay more taxes to make up for the companies they work at not paying higher taxes, then does it not just sort all even out? If companies pay less taxes then they should and individuals have to pay more taxes, then would those individuals not have as much money to buy the goods or services of the companies and thus lower the profits of these companies?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bcb35eab8ead558000011hstad6Tue, 21 May 2013 15:29:57 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bcb35eab8ead558000011
Walter, not sure the chart of taxes broken down by sources show the entire picture? I noticed that payroll taxes have risen substantially. Could you tell us if the amount in that category also includes the corporations payroll tax matching funds????? There are also several other categories of taxes which corporations must contribute - are they included in the corporate tax category - or is this chart only income taxes????http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc9366bb3f77952000007hstad6Tue, 21 May 2013 15:21:26 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc9366bb3f77952000007
"....as soon as they start paying their taxes, they can go back to deserving respect...."? So assuming you take the mortgage interest deduction - can I say that as soon as you stop, you "...can go back to deserving respect"? Common sense is not one of your attributes!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc3366bb3f75547000007asl3676Tue, 21 May 2013 14:55:50 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc3366bb3f75547000007
It's for income over $400,000......very crushing....I'm sure pro athletes will be cutting back on their spending because of this tax increase...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc321eab8ea414b000005Dean WormerTue, 21 May 2013 14:55:29 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc321eab8ea414b000005
Then go ahead and setup an offshore shell corporation that's nothing but a dropbox with no employees for yourself and see what happens. Good luck. Say Hi to Bernie Madoff when you get there.
All of these companies should be ashamed of themselves. Tax cheating scum.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc1e969bedd480c00000easl3676Tue, 21 May 2013 14:50:17 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc1e969bedd480c00000e
Effective corporate tax rates have been dropping since 1982.......This is easily remedied by closing certain loopholes which would raise effective rates by 2-3%. Corporations like Apple don't pay taxes or their employees.....All management gives a damn about are their stock options...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc0cfecad041447000005hkgonraTue, 21 May 2013 14:45:35 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc0cfecad041447000005
Let's talk about GE before we talk about apple.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc09569bedd120900000fhmficTue, 21 May 2013 14:44:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc09569bedd120900000f
APPLE HOW STUPID! LOOK AT 4PROFIT HOSPITALS and HEALTHCARE. We don't have to buy an Apple product....http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc05d6bb3f70d4300001aTired of idiotsTue, 21 May 2013 14:43:41 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bc05d6bb3f70d4300001a
It's amusing to watch illiterate American politicians and their stupid supporters grill American companies as to why their foreign sales, taxed in a foreign jurisdiction, are residing in foreign jurisdictions without US taxation.
They might as well just put out a press release screaming "Do NOT invest in the USA! Do NOT hire in the USA! Do NOT open major facilities in the USA! We will demand the right to double-tax you on your earnings, assessing taxes on top of those you already paid to local governments for sales outside the United States, at the highest corporate tax rate in the western world!"
And the idiotic political establishment continues to wonder why employment growth is so lousy and investment is so sparse.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbf9c69beddf202000010BaconcatTue, 21 May 2013 14:40:28 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbf9c69beddf202000010
Blame corporations, blame the federal cgovernment, blame whoever you want. It doesn't change the fact that in 1950 the payroll tax revenue was 1/4 of the Corporation tax revenue. now it's 4 times what corporations are taxed. so the American worker is being taxed for the 'privilege' of having a job. Pretty anti-American if you ask me. And corporations, Bush, Obama, the senate, reps, lobbyists, they all have equal blame for this. Time to tar and feather Jack Welch, Koch brothers and all the other monsters who have somehow convinced the US that corporations are people and it's okay to bribe elected officials.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbf71ecad04b74400000amindsoftheignorantTue, 21 May 2013 14:39:45 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbf71ecad04b74400000a
You people sound like you want to punish or put the onus on corporations for the revenue needed by the government .... sure tax the ever freaken hell out of all of them..... but wait ... then prices will go up ... salaries will go down .... ohhh now I am starting to get it .... the PEOPLE will still be the ones being affected by the taxes ... except it is harder to see it. Easier to raise it on those pesky corporations.
An ingenious way to get the common people to raise taxes on themselves!!!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbe07eab8ea7c3d000008mindsoftheignorantTue, 21 May 2013 14:33:43 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbe07eab8ea7c3d000008
Corporations don't pay taxes .. their customers do through increased prices ... why hide the tax to the individual int he form or a corporate tax .... ah yess ... because it is easy to inflame minds of the ignorant like you!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbd8fecad04043c000046nunyabizTue, 21 May 2013 14:31:43 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbd8fecad04043c000046
"Since the government is perpetually in a state of perceived fiscal crisis, it would be ideal to raise revenues from companies that are percieved as "tax dodgers" rather that turn the screws on actual people who can legally vote. "
It would actually be ideal to stop doing things not specifically called for in the constitution .. therefore reduce spending to a level that we could greatly reduce taxes on all and clean the code while we are at it.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbcfeecad04f13b00000eWe could be here all dayTue, 21 May 2013 14:29:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbcfeecad04f13b00000e
A dogmatic person is a person who hasn't budged from a position in six months of posting against evidence that challenges his opinions.
Let me illustrate this with an example:
For 20 centuries Christians have not budged in their belief that Jesus is the son of God even there is zero evidence that God exists and with evidence that Jesus was a common con artist. Christians have been willing to kill anyone who would dare to object to that notion or make fun of Jesus; they call it blasphemy.
The scripts from the trials in witch Christian authorities condemned people to burn to death were strings of words that to the untrained eye look like rational discourse.
That's why I said we could be here all day. Or the next 10 years. Good luck to you.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbceb69bedd657c000007hmficTue, 21 May 2013 14:28:59 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbceb69bedd657c000007
Rather stupid! People don't exist for the purpose of Corporations. Corporations compete with humanity for resources and should not exploit or excessively profit. But you might have a point remove all regulations and make all Corporations not-for-profit and shut down the Wall St. Gambling Casino. Freer Economy also means THEY don't control regulation in THEIR favor (did anyone hear anyone cry or scream over the repeal of Glass Steagal ofcourse not! They LOVE Regulation when it's in THEIR Favor!
It's a lot like FOX News.... They trumpet small business and blame Big Gov for destroying it, but not a word about the Big Box stores that have slaughtered Mom & Pops.We have empty store fronts where garden centers and Hardware and Lumber stores once stood and existed for in cases 50+ years..... all gone. But hot damn a Lowes and Home Depot less then 5 miles!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbcc069bedde102000008oak111Tue, 21 May 2013 14:28:16 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bbcc069bedde102000008
I think companies SHOULD pay taxes, and all this tax evasion gimmick is bad for the social fabric of the US, and companies are not taking their social responsibility serious, even if I believe tax $$$ could be spent more wisely.
But the politicians have to blame no one else than themselves that companies can actually evade taxes that way. Don't the politicians have their say in any tax laws? Shame on them!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bba2decad047b3700002fjohn1066Tue, 21 May 2013 14:17:17 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bba2decad047b3700002f
Cool then if they prefer to park their money off shore then lower their tax rate to zero. Why even have the race to the bottom. Just drop it to zero.
That's what they want. They want the absolute lowest tax rate. Zero is a very good starting place.
And yes you're correct that the board would get sued.... for ever not fighting for a tax free existence. See all taxes lower their profit and that is always the wrong thing. Their profit has to be the highest it can be. It has to be maximized.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb65e69bedd0b6d000020worked in Hong KongTue, 21 May 2013 14:01:02 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb65e69bedd0b6d000020
You're "remove all regulations" is a bit hysterical and intentionally over the top so you can prove that we "need" excessive regulations, apparently. There is no place for reasonable regulation that protects parties to a voluntary contract, either one extreme or the other.
Anyway, I'd say countries with more economic freedom prosper more than those with less. Evene Singapore with a heavy hand of government intervention in the economy has a freer economy than most economies that are regulated from a western standpointhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb50b6bb3f7242b00001ahmficTue, 21 May 2013 13:55:23 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb50b6bb3f7242b00001a
As for taxes, I know of no corporation that was ever killed or wounded defending America. Whereas it the citizens the give their lives to protect and defend America as well as Apple. We get screwed both ways.... and they cry about the money!!! I think it's shameful, how these Corporations enrich themselves off the blood of our soldiers and citizens and actually look for ways and work at shirking their responsibility.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb461ecad04c42e000009john1066Tue, 21 May 2013 13:52:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb461ecad04c42e000009
Really dogma?
OK so then there is not supply in the economy?
There is no demand in an economy?
Companies have not been paying less and less of the tax load?
More and more of the tax load isn't being picked up by payroll tax?
It's pretty basic. Dogma is ignoring those little facts.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb3b969bedd3264000012katmandoo122Tue, 21 May 2013 13:49:45 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb3b969bedd3264000012
They are paying their taxes. You should be more upset that our tax code penalizes a company to the point that they would PREFER to park it offshore rather than repatriate the money and invest it.
Truth be told, if Apple or any other country repatriated in the manner you describe, their Board of Directors would probably get sued.
Fix the law, not those that follow It's simple enough for even YOU to understand.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb327ecad046d2a00000akatmandoo122Tue, 21 May 2013 13:47:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb327ecad046d2a00000a
Can't you do what everyone else on the internet does when they get b!tchslapped in an argument and just go away for a couple of days?
Face it, you lost the argument and are now resorting to ad hominem attacks and low-quality sarcasm. Turn off your computer for a day or two please.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb2ee69bedd846400000cjohn1066Tue, 21 May 2013 13:46:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb2ee69bedd846400000c
"1.) What is the comparison of US taxes versus other countries in the world. In other words, how competitive are we in the world present day."
Competitive with just taxes? Why not take a look at the whole area of competitive?
First to be competitive one has to help the company get the maximum profit. That's all that competitive means at the end of the day when it comes to a company. The maximum profit.
So in that light the US needs to remove workers' rights and regulations.
See that way the US can be much more "competitive" with place where building fall down and kill around 900 very lower paid workers.
See place like WalMart make out from that. They do not take on the risk of killing those people but they do get the huge benefit of lower costs.
And I think the above answers your regulations are evil thing.
Remove regulations.
Remove minimum wage.
Remove overtime laws.
Remove really all laws from companies.
All that will make companies more competitive AKA it will help them maximize profits.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb17feab8ea4b20000010arguing with fanatics is useless Tue, 21 May 2013 13:40:15 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb17feab8ea4b20000010
John strings words together in what appears a discourse but there is no reasoning with him. Only dogma. He is on a jihad. He and only him knows the truth.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb051ecad040026000005StockTue, 21 May 2013 13:35:13 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bb051ecad040026000005
Here is the thing that is deceiving:
1.) What is the comparison of US taxes versus other countries in the world. In other words, how competitive are we in the world present day.
2.) Where are the effects of state taxes?
3.) Here the big one: what are the total effects of regulatory fees on top of taxes? That is the part killing a lot of companies. For example, by law we have worker's compensation requirements which vary based on the number of employees. But these are never included in the total costs to a corporation.
This is what American companies have been saying for ages - cost of doing business in the US should include all these fees and extras, including cost of health care. Why? Because in other countries these are included in the cost of their taxes. In the US, healthcare and taxes are considered separate, but in other countries heathcare is PART of their taxes.
People would be shocked to learn just how noncompetitive it is from a cost standpoint in the US today versus the rest of the world. It is not worker's wages that make it this way, it is the high operational costs caused by government in form of taxation, laws and regulations.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519baee1ecad049c2100000cjames9310Tue, 21 May 2013 13:29:05 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519baee1ecad049c2100000c
RADICAL IDEA = TAX CORPORATE REVENUES INSTEAD OF PROFITS: People are taxed on Gross Income (with minor deductions), not on the residual amount left over after they deduct their routine expenses and property depreciation.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bae70eab8eaad15000012Lucius ModernusTue, 21 May 2013 13:27:12 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bae70eab8eaad15000012
Apple has been proven to Lobby Congress. It's our (voters) job to un-elect Congressmen who are paid for by corporations. saying it's "Congress' fault" doesn't apply anymore.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bad4669beddce5500000erobertso2020Tue, 21 May 2013 13:22:14 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bad4669beddce5500000e
@john1066...please stop. you win already. we all believe that you are stupid.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bac6aecad049c1f000009largemargeTue, 21 May 2013 13:18:34 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519bac6aecad049c1f000009
If it's not illegal then it congresses fault not Apples. When I do my taxes I will do anything to avoid paying as much as possible as long as it's legal. If you want to make people pay taxes should simplify the tax code.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519baa806bb3f79e1900000aDean WormerTue, 21 May 2013 13:10:24 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519baa806bb3f79e1900000a
I honestly don't know what planet some of you people are living on.
AAPL (and tons of others) set up phoney sheel coporations, as Henry explained, that have no employees stricktly for the purpose of exploiting loopholes in US tax laws. If you and I did this, we would be in jail.
These are tax scams plain and simple and the show clear intent to not pay taxes. So who do you think makes up for all this revenue miossed? John Q US citizen. You. That's who.
So AAPL doesn't build their shit here. They pay slave wages to some poor bastards in China. The don't pay taxes here, so what are they doing here? Answer, exploiting our stock market to game options for the 1%.
The country is so f'kd if you people cant see this.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519baa71eab8ea3c10000012james9310Tue, 21 May 2013 13:10:09 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519baa71eab8ea3c10000012
Great chart (#2)--- Several interesting relative changes arose during the 1980s---
Corporate income taxes fell.
Individual income taxes fell.
Excise taxes rose.
Payroll taxes rose.
Excise taxes were added to compensate for a drop in the top individual tax rates and capital gains. The excise taxes were applied to luxury yachts, jewelry, autos, etc. to pull back some of the tax relief given to upper incomes, when those people bought luxury goods.. (Note that most excise taxes have now been repealed.)
Payroll taxes were increased to insure the long-term solvency of the Social Security System.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519baa086bb3f7801b000002john1066Tue, 21 May 2013 13:08:24 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519baa086bb3f7801b000002
Nice I missed that surtax. Nice job getting that one in the tax code. It needs to be there. A crushing 3.8% tax on money over $250,000
How the heck can anyone every live with a 3.8% tax on money above $250,000.
One might need to look at the 4nd or 5rd best boarding schools instead of the a higher ranked one.
With that crushing 3.8% tax maybe the 2nd BMW 7 series might not be an option.
I weep for those people having to face such a crushing 3.8% on money over $250,000.
Now with that said funny how some states the sales tax is a higher rate and that's on food too.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba8fa6bb3f79e19000001scotthoTue, 21 May 2013 13:03:54 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba8fa6bb3f79e19000001
1066 has been around since BEFORE the printing press. Asking him to actually read something may be a stretch. I would expect mostly emotion and bluster from that fellow and little reasoning.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba7b36bb3f7dd1000002dDean JohnsonTue, 21 May 2013 12:58:27 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba7b36bb3f7dd1000002d
Three strikes and you are out. First, I said Obama care, not Obama. I am talking about Medicare taxes as stated, and you replied with a discussion about income taxes, which are separate. Second, the surtax is called a surtax. You can read about it here and many other places if you choose to do so: <a href="http://hammerle.com/obamacare-the-new-medicare-3-8-surcharge/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://hammerle.com/obamacare-the-new-medicare-3-8-surcharge/</a> . Third, it starts at $250,000, not at $400,000. So three strikes and you are out.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba5b56bb3f7850e00000dLucius ModernusTue, 21 May 2013 12:49:57 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba5b56bb3f7850e00000d
well Apple may not be directly (legally) responsible since Congress did technically "vote" for the tax code...
...however Apple IS directly (financially) responsible, or at least complicit by way of Lobbying.
"not responsible" doesn't fly here. the American public is waking up to how "responsible" these companies really are. as soon as they start paying their taxes, they can go back to deserving respect.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba5186bb3f73d0c00000dLucius ModernusTue, 21 May 2013 12:47:20 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba5186bb3f73d0c00000d
false threats. you are funny.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba48aecad041810000009john1066Tue, 21 May 2013 12:44:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba48aecad041810000009
Obama levied a surtax? Really a surtax?
So first issue with your post Obama did not do that. Congress holds the purse strings not the President. The President is the executive.
So first one wrong.
Second a surtax? No it's not a surtax its a rate increase. It's the same tax as it ever was the rate was increased.
So second one wrong.
The number is also income over $400,000 and that rate went up from 35% to 39.6%. Less then 5%.
So third one wrong.
And with that 3 strikes and you're out.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba419ecad04050e00000aeventhorizonTue, 21 May 2013 12:43:05 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba419ecad04050e00000a
If corporations are people, perhaps they should be taxed as such.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba2f9ecad04080e000002Dean JohnsonTue, 21 May 2013 12:38:17 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba2f9ecad04080e000002
The cap is up to $113,700 for FICA and no cap on Medicare. Plus, Obama care levies a surtax on income over $250,000 including capital gains and dividends. It is called regressive but it is not. Lower wage people get a better return on their taxes than higher income people. The tax is supposed to pay for Social Security. Remember, Social Security is supposedly something that you pay for yourself, not a handout from the federal government. That is how it was sold back in the 1930's and to this day. That is supposedly the reason that seniors (almost one myself) claim that they are "entitled" to their benefits even if wealthy and even if they didn't pay enough for it.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba21c69beddc23e000001GimletTue, 21 May 2013 12:34:36 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba21c69beddc23e000001
That's not at all startling. The corporate earnings are worldwide earnings; why should companies bring them back to the U.S. to face the U.S.'s corporate tax rates, which are among the world's highest? And don't bother with "effective tax rate" or what they pay as a percent of total worldwide earnings, which is how that effective rate is generally calculated. Congress has looked around and is just shocked, shocked that the tax codes it has passed (which fill a building with paper when printed out) would have "technicalities" and "loopholes." If they don't like it, pass a simple, low rate and quit trying to hand out goodies or social engineer via the tax code.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba17d6bb3f72a0c000003ezequesTue, 21 May 2013 12:31:57 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519ba17d6bb3f72a0c000003
Yep. The poor and uneducated invent all the technology, science, disease cures and generally keep us from living in the Stone Age.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9f61ecad04f506000011ezequesTue, 21 May 2013 12:22:57 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9f61ecad04f506000011
So I wonder how much taxes the shareholders paid on their gains and dividends? Then of course there are the employees paying dozens of taxes and the skill base built.
Corporations don’t pay taxes, people do.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9ef0ecad04f606000002The Soviets and Moaists didn'tTue, 21 May 2013 12:21:04 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9ef0ecad04f606000002
Why did they fail? They distributed based on need and only took based on ability. I can't imagine what went wrong.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9dbc6bb3f74c03000008PayurshareTue, 21 May 2013 12:15:56 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9dbc6bb3f74c03000008
If as a country our only interest is looking out for Corporate shareholders, then we are doomed to fail.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9d46eab8eae16e000016What is leftTue, 21 May 2013 12:13:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9d46eab8eae16e000016
First it was the jobs...
Now its the money...
Multinationals will not stop destroying America until we are the poorest nation on earth. They will not invest until then and only then.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9d2eecad04d50400000bAlan Carl BrownTue, 21 May 2013 12:13:34 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9d2eecad04d50400000b
Congress is doing its same old grandstanding. Apple is not responsible for how Congress designed its own tax code. It is Congress and how it is elected and how it allows lobbyists to pull its string that are to blame.
Winner-take-all elections deny most people representation. They leave the system open to the influence of lobbyists.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9d2869bedd772f00000aRobtTue, 21 May 2013 12:13:28 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9d2869bedd772f00000a
Politicians are going after Apple because the politics of envy plays well. Years ago, that strategy would not have worked in the US, but now we are seeing the fruits of turning the country into Europe lite, and it isn't pretty.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9a4becad04e07c00000bjohn1066Tue, 21 May 2013 12:01:15 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/519b9a4becad04e07c00000b
And payroll tax is a regressive tax. It's capped at around $100,000 and it does not touch capital gains or dividends.
Also payroll tax is mostly for things like SS not the general tax fund.