The cost of a good quality ruby has gotten so high, it makes diamonds seem positively affordable. I have seen some awesome red spinels, no way could I tell the difference from a ruby. Rubellites can tend toward pink. The "pidgeon's blood" red of a ruby is best replicated through a red spinel.

To sight I.D. a stone of the same color
can be dangerous but when looking at stones as rubulite if the stone is unmounted look thourgh the side of the
stone along the girdle you most will see a diferent color or a strong change of hue in the stone, this is brought on by a strong Dichroic effect that is a I.D. factor in tourmaline.
As for ruby and Spinel in some cases it's al most impossible we have had lots of ruby come through and only by running tests on R.I. and S.G. could we tell the difference due to all the stones had the same color and hue.
even though the ruby is also Dichroic
it is not nearly as strong as tourmaline
and you will not have change of over all color. As for spinel it can be very diffcult in most cases and almost impossible when your looking at a real
good red spinel.

I just thought I would revive this thread since I hope to be buying a red spinel from Jan and Brad. I am unsure the two stones from which I was picking are still available. If both are, I'd love Jan to post their pictures and specs .

Dave-thats a pretty good point, but I have to disagree on the fluorescence of red spinel.. nice red spinels have very strong red fluorescence, extremely similar like fine ruby; therefore they have the strong emission lines ("organ pipe") in the red part of the spectrum...

Oh yeah, maybe some extra info on the issue of red fluorescence in ruby...
the fluorescence is caused by the transition element Cr3+ (trivalent chromium), which is also responsible for the color of ruby. Most Thai and African rubies contain a rather high amount of divalent iron, which, in addition with some titanium, will give the stone a purplish color due to the charge transfer Fe2+ + Ti4+ ----> Fe3+ + Ti3+ (responsible for the blue color in sapphire); some blue in a red will give purplish...; when there is a lack of Ti4+, the iron will cause a brownish color. An additional effect of eccessive iron is, that any kind of fluorescence is quenched by the presence of iron; thus, iron rich rubies (normally out of the typical basaltic deposits) do not show strong red fluorescence and appear dull compared to stones with strong fluorescence... Therefore, also the purple colored spinels do not show much fluorescence, the color is mainly due to a mix between iron (which causes the color of blue spinel [rarely in combination with cobalt or solely cobalt]) and chromium (which causes the color of red spinels)

I believe that both these stones are from Burma. That does not guarantee that they won't be high in iron and refuse to fluoresce on demand, though, right? How do I know if my red spinel is as pretty as a ruby? I wanted that Burmese ruby and this was supposed to be a substitute .

Originally posted by oldminer I guess I have seen very few really RED spinels. The majority of those sold as "red" are a mix of nearly red stones and don't fluoresce much. If you are going to spend enough to buy a fine red spinel you had best make sure the fluorescent nature is as Thomas has suggested or it will never look like a real Burma ruby.

Being from Burma is not the real issue with a spinel. It is the color and how much it may mimic a fine ruby....

This is not good news, Dave . You just killed a sale for Jan and Brad .

Luckily, they are the only ones I buy stones from at the moment, so it is more of a postponed sale than a murdered one. I guess they'll have to wait to sell me a Burma ruby.

It may be a long wait, though. I want a good one. A slow dollar instead of a quick dime.

Have you considered a lab created ruby? An aquaintance of mine has a pair of drop-dead spectacular ruby and diamond earrings. I've always admired ( ok, coveted! ) those earrings and a good mutual friend has confided to me that those stones are synthetic "Ramaura" (sp?) rubies. They have that glow just like you'd expect . I never had an inkling they weren't very fine Burmese stones and they look much nicer than most of the rubies I've seen in the I'm-not-Elizabeth-Taylor price range .

This may not be the option for you, but I thought I'd mention it.

Rigel signature

If you were arrested for kindness
would there be enough evidence
to convict you?

Are you able to enlarge the picture of your stone? (I am assuming that that is the 8 carat rhodolite?) It is gorgeous. When I clicked on it to enlarge it, it didn't grow, however . Are you able to post it in a much bigger size?

Just curious, why would you let two people talking about two stones they have never seen "kill" a sale? They both offered excellent information, but hardly the type that should have caused you not to consider the stones that you were asking about.

I would ask you to consider asking Jan and Brad to send you the stones to look at and let you see if you agree with them that they are beautiful and worthy or not of consideration.

Red spinel may often be confused with ruby, but that is often because they are more beautiful than most rubies. Yes, the ten to twenty thousand a carat ruby that you refer to is an incredible stone, but most rubies are not. Personally, I think that if red spinel had a better press agent it would be much more popular than all but the finest rubies.

I would never dare to suggest what you "should" do, but merely ask as I would hate to see you miss out on a beautiful stone worthy of being owned for its own beauty, not "just" because it looked like a ruby.

Your most caring servant

Wink

Wink, I couldn't agree more on the issue of the bad press of spinel... I've seen stones which surpass by far most rubies... and which are certainly worth their money...

I work at colored stone whole sale company. My company is about 30 years old, therefore, we have lots of stock. I am very lucky to see so many colored stones. Before this, I worked at E.G.L. for 8 years and had a chance to see so many diamonds. So, this experience really helps me to repolish my knowledge since G.I.A. and also teach me to appraciate colored stones. I used to only think only gem worth spending money was diamond,ruby,emerald,sapp hire. Ironically, my company don't sell any of those.
I never knew Rubellite and Spinal were that pretty. But I get few calls from my clients requesting, what kind of stones can they purchase that can mimic Ruby...
Please,.. love all the gem stones for its own beauty.. just like everyone has its own unique beauty...some people like ruby because it's expensive, Spinal can be very expensive too
If you like red, red spinal is awesome way to go... if you like rich dark gorgeous pink, rubellite will be perfect.
So, what I'm trying to say is... if it's pretty and you like the color
"what the heck, just buy it"

I am rushing. I have to go to a psychiatric hospital. Too many gem decisions .

(Honest. I have to go to one of the few psychiatric hospitals that still exist! But for Forensic Grand Rounds, not treatment .)

I am hoping Jan can get in two red spinels, look at them and see what SHE thinks, then send one or both on to Dave Atlas for an opinion.

Rockdoc also seems like a good person to look at colored gemstones since he knows them so well, but I am afraid he is as enthusiastic about color as I am. And *Wink* absolutely *CANNOT* be trusted! He would probably buy the stone out from under me if it looked good!

So I am thinking I will send it to the skeptic and see if I can convert him .

AGBF

PS-For the humor-impaired and for those for whom English is a second language, I *would* trust Wink and rockdoc to know a good colored stone when they saw one! I have been teasing them because they love colored stones so much.