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Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Originally Posted by HenryReardon

"Torture" If you're referring to waterboarding, it hardly constitutes torture.
But back to the subject at hand: Harry S Truman was a good man, yet as president he had to look at the greater good when he authorized the use of the atomic bomb.

Can you at least make sheer supposition as to what national good was achieved out of torturing? So that this analogy remotely makes sense?

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Can you at least make sheer supposition as to what national good was achieved out of torturing? e?

Start with the fact that waterboarding is not torture.

Look up the facts: it was used to obtain information that thwarted future attacks.
No I'm not going to do your work for you.

The attitude of the American public toward the terrorists can be summed up by a woman's letter to the editor during the 2nd gulf war: she wrote, among other things that she "didn't care what they did with or to the terrorists."

Only bleeding heart liberals get worked up over what happens to those savages.

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Waterboarding doesn't even come close to meeting any definition of torture.

And let's not forget, it wasn't used on uniformed combatants of an opposing army. It was used on
terrorists.

Yes, it does qualify resoundly as torture, and U.S. courts and legal experts as well as John McCain and President Obama have all said that it is as well, as does the U.N.

You're just making things up out of thin air.

Originally Posted by HenryReardon

Start with the fact that waterboarding is not torture.

Look up the facts: it was used to obtain information that thwarted future attacks.
No I'm not going to do your work for you.

The attitude of the American public toward the terrorists can be summed up by a woman's letter to the editor during the 2nd gulf war: she wrote, among other things that she "didn't care what they did with or to the terrorists."

Only bleeding heart liberals get worked up over what happens to those savages.

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Could this possibly come across more superior and xenophobic?

There is a reason why civilians don't get to make those decisions. Because they don't care about politics, relationships with the rest of the world or even justice. They are emotional and want retribution. That you think it's some "bleeding heart liberals" affectation to respect human rights, shows how far the right has fallen in this country.

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Originally Posted by HenryReardon

Waterboarding doesn't even come close to meeting any definition of torture.

Senator John McCain, a Republican, a veteran, and an ex-POW, disagrees with you. He'd like to remind you that the US tried and executed Japanese soldiers for using waterboarding in the post WW2 war trials.

"There should be little doubt from American history that we consider that as torture otherwise we wouldn't have tried and convicted Japanese for doing that same thing to Americans," McCain said during a news conference.

Sometime between 1945 and 2004, many conservatives seem to have decided that waterboarding is not an offence punishable by death.

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Waterboarding is essentially the far more intense, modern version of what we used to call the Chinese Water "Torture". Sorry it is a form of psychological torture. The technique was developed to use for training our own people what it is like to experience torture.

“Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud, His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. He’s playing the members of the American public for suckers: He gets a free ride to the White House, and all we get is a lousy hat.” Mitt Romney

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Originally Posted by mightbe

And psychological torture is somehow okay, Stardreamer? Why should it be considered any less severe than a physically life-threatening one? Both invoke the same fear and misery; the body will respond similarly, even if there's no physical pain inflicted.

I'm sorry were you interpreting my post to say I approved of it? That was not the intent, I was simply trying to emphasize that it IS torture.

“Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud, His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. He’s playing the members of the American public for suckers: He gets a free ride to the White House, and all we get is a lousy hat.” Mitt Romney

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

That you think it's some "bleeding heart liberals" affectation to respect human rights,

People who strap bombs around little children and send them off to commit suicide and kill other, hardly qualify as 'human'..

No, actually, they qualify as fully human, due to the fact that we live in the first world and here everyone has the same rights regardless of their crime. Reject that and you become the same as those you despise - they also think you're not human and deserve to have exploding children thrown at you.

Also, learn to use the quote function.

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

So yeah.... then we had these executive orders and proposed legislative efforts.

did I wonder off topic?

Unfortunately while many of these items seem appropriate. I think you will see litigation preventing the implementation of many gun laws such as tracking, repetitive registry, and the reporting of mental illness as a prelude to weapons removal will be opposed by the left and the right.

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Originally Posted by HenryReardon

Wrong as usual. The terrorists are sub-human animals.

And so are people who think they can decide who is human and who isn't.

Their religion makes them strap bombs to their children. Your religion makes people deny others the right to marry the one they love, or women to choose what to do with their bodies. There is no such thing as sub-human animals. There is culture and upbringing. If you think you would be any different if you were dealt the hand they were, then you are truly on the path to the Darwin Award.

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

The point is that it is absolutely standard operating procedure at a Bill signing, or the majority of other Presidential announcements. It took me less than 3 minutes to find 5 examples of Bush signing something with kids on hand. I can easily find more with Clinton and Bush 1. The changes being enacted by Obama are motivated by, and aimed toward, the protection of children.

I just don't understand what you're criticising. There is nothing here that hasn't been happening in US politics for 20 years.

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

I suppose since the situation was that those children wrote letters to the President asking him to do something and he invited them to be on the stage when he did something then;

Obama hides behind soldiers when he salutes them by putting them on camera at the state of the Union;

Obama hid behind women when he signed the Lilly Ledbetter act in Lilly Ledbetter's presence;

Obama hid behind Native Americans when he signed the American Apology Resolution.

I go go on all night for every thing he has signed. It is traditional for those who inspired legislation or executive orders to be present when that mantle is taken up officially via signature by the President.

As I have said before: Do conservatives really only have this weak, non-issue of an argument?

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

I suppose since the situation was that those children wrote letters to the President asking him to do something and he invited them to be on the stage when he did something then;

Obama hides behind soldiers when he salutes them by putting them on camera at the state of the Union;

Obama hid behind women when he signed the Lilly Ledbetter act in Lilly Ledbetter's presence;

Obama hid behind Native Americans when he signed the American Apology Resolution.

I go go on all night for every thing he has signed. It is traditional for those who inspired legislation or executive orders to be present when that mantle is taken up officially via signature by the President.

As I have said before: Do conservatives really only have this weak, non-issue of an argument?

That's precisely how I feel. How nice must it be for the worst of your fears to be someone you have this little to get outraged about that you wind up talking about how he appeared in a photo op.

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Originally Posted by Rolyo85

It was supposed to say "AD nauseum" and yeah, that's what it means

I know what it was supposed to mean... it was just a rare opportunity to fuck with both you and chance in one post. It is like placing letters in 'words with friends' that results in two or three different words.....

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

I know what it was supposed to mean... it was just a rare opportunity to fuck with both you and chance in one post. It is like placing letters in 'words with friends' that results in two or three different words.....

I know you want to fuck me

That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Originally Posted by andysayshi

Since Obama is such a nasty man, acting like no President has ever done by politicising those poor children, let's pause for a minute and reminisce about our previous President, who would never use children at a press conference or signing of a Bill.

You've already seen him at te signing of the No Child Left Behind Act above.

Here he is at the signing of the reauthorized Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act:Attachment 919552

Here's the President at the Bill Signing of the Dot Kids Implementation and Efficiency Act of 2002Attachment 919553

Here he is at the signing of the PEPFAR Reauthorization, one of the most generous and compassionate acts of any recent PresidentAttachment 919554

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

See my response to xbuzzerx. I was not making any comment at all on the Obama picture.

- - - Updated - - -

I wasn't saying anything at all about that picture and the signing event. I was merely stating a fact about those pictures of Bush provided as 'counter evidence'.

Okay. But those pictures weren't shown to imply the kids were just grabbed out of a crowd for a bill that had nothing to do with kids. The discussion was about Chance claiming it's an absolute outrage to have kids at the signing of the bill. None of us really knows why... even now, really.

Re: Obama's Response to Gun Control

Originally Posted by xbuzzerx

Okay. But those pictures weren't shown to imply the kids were just grabbed out of a crowd for a bill that had nothing to do with kids. The discussion was about Chance claiming it's an absolute outrage to have kids at the signing of the bill. None of us really knows why... even now, really.