(10-09-2012 04:47 PM)Vols-1 Wrote: It's clearly fake, the face of the Bull on the back is a little different when you blow the pic up.

I can make out the pupils in the eyes of the bull on the back of my BGS 8 version. I cannot make them out on this scan. Then when I consider the coloring and also wondering why no one has submitted it for grading instead of keeping it in a top loader myself.... I say NOT AUTHENTIC...IMO.

Buying a raw version of this card rarely works out unless it is in person. I would never buy a copy online unless it was graded.

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(10-09-2012 05:55 PM)got watcha want Wrote: I can make out the pupils in the eyes of the bull on the back of my BGS 8 version. I cannot make them out on this scan. Then when I consider the coloring and also wondering why no one has submitted it for grading instead of keeping it in a top loader myself.... I say NOT AUTHENTIC...IMO.

Buying a raw version of this card rarely works out unless it is in person. I would never buy a copy online unless it was graded.

i can see the bulls eyes in the scan the card looks good to me . everything is solid under X10 loupe

(10-09-2012 09:29 PM)goldcoin2012 Wrote: i can see the bulls eyes in the scan the card looks good to me . everything is solid under X10 loupe

me too. the only sure thing would be to send it in. i hope we find out. if its fake then ots a new fake. unless someone can really point out why its fake i still think its real. this one would give beckett a hard time grading. but so far no one has made a valid point about it being fake.

I would be willing to bet that the card is fake. From the overly bright color to it being in a top loader to the guy even thinking of selling it raw like that when it looks like it'd grade maybe even a 9!!! It has damn near perfect centering & somehow magically hasn't been graded yet. No way it's real. But I will cross my fingers it is for you though! Because that would be an AMAZING find!

It might be and it might not be a fake it's real hard to tell and I'm not a grader.

As for the top loader issue i would say the he could have put it in there right from the pack in '86 and doesn't want to risk damaging it by taking it out and putting it in a magnetic holder. Now why he didn't get it graded is the real question. This would raise the red flag for me, as everyone else is saying he might know its a fake and doesn't want others to know untill the buyer sends it in to get graded at which point its out of his hands and the seller got what he wanted for it. Now one would think that knowing you might have a high graded card in your possession you would send it in so that you can turn around and then sell it with the proof that it is real with out question for a lot more money.

(10-09-2012 09:29 PM)goldcoin2012 Wrote: i can see the bulls eyes in the scan the card looks good to me . everything is solid under X10 loupe

That SCF link that was just posted, explains how to spot the eye issues in the Bulls logo. I hope it doesn't get deleted by a mod, they hate other forum links being posted even on something like this.

If this is just your scanner giving the MJ RC those bright colors, is there another pic available? I really don't like the colors overall, if it is a purchase or if this is your sale, what is the reason for the sale without grading?

I am not trying to bash a card that could be real, just the OP asked and I don't believe it is real. I have owned 3 copies of this card and none were graded fake by BGS. I bought them all in person, so the scanner could be the issue here. I would pass if the scan I see is the only pic to go on.

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LOOKING FOR....
NO MORE 1993-94 Finest Refractors / THE SET IS COMPLETED!!!

I am not siding with either fake or real, but just giving an idea of something to think about....

I did some work for a guy at a antique store a few years ago without pay. It was just to get some experience in a card store atmosphere while I was working at another full-time job. At the end of the summer, he asked if he could pay me and I said no. So he insisted he give me a box of cards. The box he gave me was a 3,200 box full of cards in top loaders, etc. This box had, to my surprise, had rookies of baseball players all the way back to the mid 1960s. It had inserts, tons of autos, GUd, etc., all in top loaders.

That brings me to my points. I am a top loader kind of guy and hate screw downs or anything of that nature. We had a guy bring in a Jordan RC in a screwdown case and it was not in a penny sleeve. When we opened the case, the Jordan card split into half. From then on, I decided I was using penny sleeve, top loader, team bag. Period. For all of my PC stuff.

Secondly, I hate graded. I won't buy a graded card and will never, ever send cards off to get graded. It ruins the hobby. I have several cards in my 1958 Topps set that would probably grade an 8 or higher. I could in turn flip those cards for extra money and rebuy raw copies if what I had graded for my set. But I never will. I absolutely hate graded.

Now, I am not familiar enough with a Jordan RC to be able to spot a fake. I couldn't tell you anything about the differences between what a fake would have and what a real would have.

But I just wanted to point out reasons why it might still be in its original top loader and not be graded.

I am a toploader kind of guy as well, but graded is the safest way to buy online... especially with this card.

Now as an example, if I had a '58 Topps Mantle AS that would grade say a BGS 8, and then I could flip it and buy a raw version for a set need, I may not grade it and I do love graded copies of cards.

We are talking about a couple of hundred dollars worth of added value and then to sell to decrease my set condition and risk submitting it for a grade that I hoped for. Now some of the Base HOF cards from that Topps set would be worth grading to flip most likely, but not so much if the cards you are talking are of lesser players..

Now with that Mantle AS, the margins are not worth the risk.... but when we are talking about getting that MJ RC card from the pic graded... we are talking leaving $1K++++ on the table. IF the card in question is authentic. This card I would never buy raw online, because they can even show you a real one and then send a fake. At least you get authentication and serial numbers to ensure authenticity and that it is the card purchased. That is where I and most collectors find the added value of graded cards.

MY PHOTOBUCKET
LOOKING FOR....
NO MORE 1993-94 Finest Refractors / THE SET IS COMPLETED!!!

I know a few collectors that prefer toploaders, but I would rather have a hardcase... screwdowns are not very good, because people tend to screw them too tight, as like in the example with the mentioned above.. with the large thick screw downs that people used to put old/vintage RC cards in, are very dangerous if you don't use a pennysleeve... because the moisture will be trapped between the glass or plastic & the card sticks to the holder...

not all pennysleeves are good, as there are some cheap versions.. they stick to the card after time... or because of the material/ink that is used on the cardboard, they will stick... example is the first year Finest Basketball.. I had some commons that were in penny sleeve that got stuck.. because the penny sleeves were a very cheap version.. I would use the word fake, because they are not as good as the ones used today... but it depends on manufacturer & hope they don't start counterfeiting pennysleeves, toploaders, ect...

The magnetic onetouch holders are very nice, especially the ones with the corners cut out, so you can actually see the card had 4 pointed corners.. but if you drop them.. watch out!! they open up.. they can sometimes slip & open up during shipping too... therefore I put a small piece of household tape at the top, to secure it shut.. I then fold the tape on the back, so there will be a tab, so I can remove it if needed.. all my toploaders & onetouch holders are then placed in teambags to prevent the holder from being scratched....

When using toploaders, they do not always protect your cards, especially jersey/patch cards... they can get damaged during shipping.... or even during storage in your cardboard show boxes or what ever you put them in.. I recently found a Trilogy Kobe jersey card, that has a very good BV, that had a crease.. I was going to put in on ebay, but since it has a crease it will be a hard sell... I was hoping to get half BV for it, but now, will probably only get $5, maybe... & hope the buyer reads the description, because any damaged and/or flawed cards I put on ebay, I list the defects...

below pics are not the same card in the OP.. it is only to help other identify a fake.. go to the link, to get full description on what the fake markings are.. If you can memories all these tips, then you will be able to spot a fake very quickly... but with today's technology, fakes are getting better & better.... they can even pass BGS/PSA grading... since they are only humans that are doing the grading... & humans sometimes make mistakes....