Rock hall of fame inducts medeocre bands, while real masters of music get blown off.

[crypticangle] Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:55:14 PM

The Priest were honored at VH1 Rock Honors a few years back but to me they should be the first band to be inducted to the Heavy Metal Hall Of Fame when there is one .

[ron h] Saturday, July 05, 2008 9:14:58 PM

priestadict...The best way I can describe what Heavy Metal is, is to tell you to listen to British Steel and then listen to any Rush or Aerosmith or any of the other bands mentioned, and listen to the difference for yourself. That difference is what separates Heavy Metal from Hard Rock. It's really difficult to give a specific definition, for there are many variables. This is just my opinion, and it's the way I presented the answer to my kid's when they began listening to music. Hope this helps a little.

[MASI 73] Saturday, July 05, 2008 7:53:43 PM

Wow, all of you had some great input. I feel I have learned more here than I did in my 20+ years of listening to all of these great bands. The point I think we can all agree on (at least the older dudes and dudets) is that for some of us this was a gradual escalation of what we where listening to at the time. The avenues of rock, metal, and eventualy heavy metal had not yet been fully explored. We grew up wanting more and better, and most of these great bands delivered. We know the difference between Glam, Rock, Metal and so on, but the younger crowd seem to confuse it.
Long hair means metal, saggy pants is hip-hop, and flanel shirts is grunge. Heavy metal, hell rock & roll in general suffered a great amount of heat from what I like to call " DO GOODER GROUPS" lead by Tipper Gore in the late 80's. The recording industries also oversaturated the market with crappy bands, you know " no substance" that ultumatly caused the down slope of sales and the rise of the crap that is out there today.

Long Live Rock , Metal and whatever else you love..... eccept the YO YO crap that's out now

[Return_of_Darth_Painkiller_0870] Friday, July 04, 2008 3:48:22 AM

I didn't say it was either. However, I did say the sound on the Perfect Strangers album was the closest DP has come to metal (aside from the Machine Head album (which isn't metal by today's standards, but considering the sound of metal in the 70's, I can perfectly see where someone might consider it that).[Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by spapad from Friday, July 04, 2008 3:40:48 AM)

spapad wrote:

Perfect Strangers, Metal? NO!
But just one of the greatest albums I ever heard! "I'm not responsible" on tape there where a few put out that the song speeded up as the tape came to an end. It was awsome! I thought it was just my deck, but NO every machine I played it on did the same, sounded cooler that way.
Albums did not have it, not all tapes had it, I felt priviledged because it was way better than the origingal that way. HA.

Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote:

I can probably see where someone might say that, Bev. Zep made some great hard rock songs...Dazed & Confused, Whole Lotta Love, In The Evening, and Stairway To Heaven to name a few. Those songs have dark, heavy guitars, great riffs, and provided bands that came after them with an incredible influence on their playing. Still not heavy metal.

It's not just what the guitars, bass and drums sound like, a lot of it has to do with the subject matter and how it's presented by the artist as well. Sabbath were masters of this (Sabbra Cadabra anyone?). Alice Cooper too (Under My Wheels came to mind first). Alice's songs were dark and heavy, but to me, his constant use of horns keeps him in the Hard Rock genre with Aerosmith, DP, Zep and Kiss. Kiss in the 70s isn't metal, but they had the same ingredients I mentioned with Led Zeppelin, and their image/stage show is something no one else can duplicate or match without coming off like a bunch of posers. Deep Purple were awesome, but outside of the Machine Head album, you can't say they were metal in any sense of the word. The closest Deep Purple came to the heavy sound of Machine Head was with Perfect Strangers. They are literally in the same boat that Kiss and Zep were in back in the 70's musically. Kiss' sound got bigger and darker in 81/82, when they replaced drummer Peter Criss with Eric Carr. It's Eric's double bass technique and superior drumming that kept Kiss' sound fresh. If you listen or even watch Peter Criss playing say, Detroit Rock City or Love Gun, and then watch footage of Eric Carr playing those same songs on the Unmasked Tour. The drums have a bigger sound. Not just because of the double bass, but b/c his overall playing style lent itself to taking those songs and the band's overall sound to the next level. If Gene & Paul had been smarter back in '77 when they were wooing Eddie Van Halen, they should've taken Alex Van Halen and replaced Peter Criss. Kiss' sound would've (presumably) soared to those sonic heights that didn't come until after Ace & Peter were replaced by Vinnie Vincent and Eric Carr.

Bev wrote:

I just finished a semester of rock & roll history. Turns out, from the perspective of rock & roll historians, Zep and some of the other bands, in question, form the foundation of "heavy metal." Ah, the past ...

[spapad] Friday, July 04, 2008 3:40:48 AM

Perfect Strangers, Metal? NO!
But just one of the greatest albums I ever heard! "I'm not responsible" on tape there where a few put out that the song speeded up as the tape came to an end. It was awsome! I thought it was just my deck, but NO every machine I played it on did the same, sounded cooler that way.
Albums did not have it, not all tapes had it, I felt priviledged because it was way better than the origingal that way. HA.[Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Darth_Painkiller_0870 from Friday, July 04, 2008 3:28:51 AM)

Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote:

I can probably see where someone might say that, Bev. Zep made some great hard rock songs...Dazed & Confused, Whole Lotta Love, In The Evening, and Stairway To Heaven to name a few. Those songs have dark, heavy guitars, great riffs, and provided bands that came after them with an incredible influence on their playing. Still not heavy metal.

It's not just what the guitars, bass and drums sound like, a lot of it has to do with the subject matter and how it's presented by the artist as well. Sabbath were masters of this (Sabbra Cadabra anyone?). Alice Cooper too (Under My Wheels came to mind first). Alice's songs were dark and heavy, but to me, his constant use of horns keeps him in the Hard Rock genre with Aerosmith, DP, Zep and Kiss. Kiss in the 70s isn't metal, but they had the same ingredients I mentioned with Led Zeppelin, and their image/stage show is something no one else can duplicate or match without coming off like a bunch of posers. Deep Purple were awesome, but outside of the Machine Head album, you can't say they were metal in any sense of the word. The closest Deep Purple came to the heavy sound of Machine Head was with Perfect Strangers. They are literally in the same boat that Kiss and Zep were in back in the 70's musically. Kiss' sound got bigger and darker in 81/82, when they replaced drummer Peter Criss with Eric Carr. It's Eric's double bass technique and superior drumming that kept Kiss' sound fresh. If you listen or even watch Peter Criss playing say, Detroit Rock City or Love Gun, and then watch footage of Eric Carr playing those same songs on the Unmasked Tour. The drums have a bigger sound. Not just because of the double bass, but b/c his overall playing style lent itself to taking those songs and the band's overall sound to the next level. If Gene & Paul had been smarter back in '77 when they were wooing Eddie Van Halen, they should've taken Alex Van Halen and replaced Peter Criss. Kiss' sound would've (presumably) soared to those sonic heights that didn't come until after Ace & Peter were replaced by Vinnie Vincent and Eric Carr.

Bev wrote:

I just finished a semester of rock & roll history. Turns out, from the perspective of rock & roll historians, Zep and some of the other bands, in question, form the foundation of "heavy metal." Ah, the past ...

[Return_of_Darth_Painkiller_0870] Friday, July 04, 2008 3:28:51 AM

I can probably see where someone might say that, Bev. Zep made some great hard rock songs...Dazed & Confused, Whole Lotta Love, In The Evening, and Stairway To Heaven to name a few. Those songs have dark, heavy guitars, great riffs, and provided bands that came after them with an incredible influence on their playing. Still not heavy metal.

It's not just what the guitars, bass and drums sound like, a lot of it has to do with the subject matter and how it's presented by the artist as well. Sabbath were masters of this (Sabbra Cadabra anyone?). Alice Cooper too (Under My Wheels came to mind first). Alice's songs were dark and heavy, but to me, his constant use of horns keeps him in the Hard Rock genre with Aerosmith, DP, Zep and Kiss. Kiss in the 70s isn't metal, but they had the same ingredients I mentioned with Led Zeppelin, and their image/stage show is something no one else can duplicate or match without coming off like a bunch of posers. Deep Purple were awesome, but outside of the Machine Head album, you can't say they were metal in any sense of the word. The closest Deep Purple came to the heavy sound of Machine Head was with Perfect Strangers. They are literally in the same boat that Kiss and Zep were in back in the 70's musically. Kiss' sound got bigger and darker in 81/82, when they replaced drummer Peter Criss with Eric Carr. It's Eric's double bass technique and superior drumming that kept Kiss' sound fresh. If you listen or even watch Peter Criss playing say, Detroit Rock City or Love Gun, and then watch footage of Eric Carr playing those same songs on the Unmasked Tour. The drums have a bigger sound. Not just because of the double bass, but b/c his overall playing style lent itself to taking those songs and the band's overall sound to the next level. If Gene & Paul had been smarter back in '77 when they were wooing Eddie Van Halen, they should've taken Alex Van Halen and replaced Peter Criss. Kiss' sound would've (presumably) soared to those sonic heights that didn't come until after Ace & Peter were replaced by Vinnie Vincent and Eric Carr.[Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Bev from Thursday, July 03, 2008 7:13:42 AM)

Bev wrote:

I just finished a semester of rock & roll history. Turns out, from the perspective of rock & roll historians, Zep and some of the other bands, in question, form the foundation of "heavy metal." Ah, the past ...

[Bev] Thursday, July 03, 2008 7:13:42 AM

I just finished a semester of rock & roll history. Turns out, from the perspective of rock & roll historians, Zep and some of the other bands, in question, form the foundation of "heavy metal." Ah, the past ...

[Return_of_Darth_Painkiller_0870] Thursday, July 03, 2008 6:42:26 AM

Sorry dude. I misread your post. However, there are those who say the bands I mentioned are metal and it drives me nuts b/c they're not.[Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by metalmaz from Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:08:52 AM)

metalmaz wrote:

Darth Painkiller.

Where did I say Zep were metal?

Where I say Deep Purple were metal?I've cut and pasted the original post for your benefit and I've made it nice and big, since you seem to be suffering from myopia

The trouble is the the definition of what type of music Rock N Roll is has changed,

In the 50's the like of Elvis, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis were regarded as rock and roll. Then the Beatles (who were more pop orientatated in the early days). The Stones/Kinks/Animals were more rock/blues orientated.

For me the likes of rock began with Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Rush. Punk then took over for a short period. Then what is regarded as metal began with the likes of Priest and Maiden.
No I can't see it. Please can you tell me where I said Zep and Purple were metal? Also where did I say Rush were metal?

Don't get me wrong, I love Led Zep, but they are rock, not metal. How the heck can a band with a ton of folk songs be considered metal? I think you're listening to Stairway To Heaven and a Whole Lotta Love too much, my friend. Perhaps you should listen through their whole catalogue? Travelling Riverside Blues? Very metal indeed. How about Friends? Bron-Yr-Aur? Or maybe I'm Gonna Crawl? Better yet, there's Carouselambra? There's a reallllllllll metal song for ya.

Deep Purple also isn't metal. If so, you might as well lump Kiss and Aerosmith in there too. All 3 rock acts are really damn close, but not quite there. Early Sabbath is definitely metal. That being said, DP only had two cds that could be considered metal - Machine Head and Perfect Strangers. I bet if you asked Ian Gillen if he thought the Purple were metal, he'd probably order you and him a good stiff drink and tell you they're a rock band. Kiss is arguably the closest out of Purple, Aerosmith and Kiss. Their sound is very crunchy and agressive. Aerosmith is the least metal of the 3 easily. I won't even go into why, since it should be evident from listening to their music. Rush isn't metal either for that matter. Great progressive rock band, but if you want a prog artist that sounds metal, look to King Diamond/Mercyful Fate and Dream Theater. I can keep going on, and write a book about the difference...but I don't want to bore the shit out of everyone either.

metalmaz wrote:

The trouble is the the definition of what type of music Rock N Roll is has changed,

In the 50's the like of Elvis, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis were regarded as rock and roll. Then the Beatles (who were more pop orientatated in the early days). The Stones/Kinks/Animals were more rock/blues orientated.

For me the likes of rock began with Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Rush. Punk then took over for a short period. Then what is regarded as metal began with the likes of Priest and Maiden.

But with regards to the Rock and Rol Hall Of Fame, it embraces all types of music.

Thank you both.
The link is not exactly what I'm looking for, I am stubborn (I'm a woman after all...) maybe your book will be better Ha ha
I would like to add a comment: Rock and roll comes from Jazz -and rock comes from blues. Only the "black rock" (Jimmy Hendricks, Chuck Berry...) added some blues style. The first bands who made their own rhytm and blues were Eric Clapton (Yardbirds) and Rolling Stones. The Beatles were a very popular accident in the story.

[metalmaz] Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:08:52 AM

Darth Painkiller.

Where did I say Zep were metal?

Where I say Deep Purple were metal?I've cut and pasted the original post for your benefit and I've made it nice and big, since you seem to be suffering from myopia

The trouble is the the definition of what type of music Rock N Roll is has changed,

In the 50's the like of Elvis, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis were regarded as rock and roll. Then the Beatles (who were more pop orientatated in the early days). The Stones/Kinks/Animals were more rock/blues orientated.

For me the likes of rock began with Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Rush. Punk then took over for a short period. Then what is regarded as metal began with the likes of Priest and Maiden.
No I can't see it. Please can you tell me where I said Zep and Purple were metal? Also where did I say Rush were metal?

Don't get me wrong, I love Led Zep, but they are rock, not metal. How the heck can a band with a ton of folk songs be considered metal? I think you're listening to Stairway To Heaven and a Whole Lotta Love too much, my friend. Perhaps you should listen through their whole catalogue? Travelling Riverside Blues? Very metal indeed. How about Friends? Bron-Yr-Aur? Or maybe I'm Gonna Crawl? Better yet, there's Carouselambra? There's a reallllllllll metal song for ya.

Deep Purple also isn't metal. If so, you might as well lump Kiss and Aerosmith in there too. All 3 rock acts are really damn close, but not quite there. Early Sabbath is definitely metal. That being said, DP only had two cds that could be considered metal - Machine Head and Perfect Strangers. I bet if you asked Ian Gillen if he thought the Purple were metal, he'd probably order you and him a good stiff drink and tell you they're a rock band. Kiss is arguably the closest out of Purple, Aerosmith and Kiss. Their sound is very crunchy and agressive. Aerosmith is the least metal of the 3 easily. I won't even go into why, since it should be evident from listening to their music. Rush isn't metal either for that matter. Great progressive rock band, but if you want a prog artist that sounds metal, look to King Diamond/Mercyful Fate and Dream Theater. I can keep going on, and write a book about the difference...but I don't want to bore the shit out of everyone either.

metalmaz wrote:

The trouble is the the definition of what type of music Rock N Roll is has changed,

In the 50's the like of Elvis, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis were regarded as rock and roll. Then the Beatles (who were more pop orientatated in the early days). The Stones/Kinks/Animals were more rock/blues orientated.

For me the likes of rock began with Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Rush. Punk then took over for a short period. Then what is regarded as metal began with the likes of Priest and Maiden.

But with regards to the Rock and Rol Hall Of Fame, it embraces all types of music.

It should be, cause bands like Bathory, Venom, Death, Obituary, Cannibal Corpse, Slayer, Sarcofago,Sepultura, Morbid Angel,etc would never be in a Rock Hall of Fame, but they deserve recognition because of their contribution to the Heavy Metal genre,that is a musical genre with a lot of adepts and history.

[Return_of_Darth_Painkiller_0870] Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:34:27 AM

Don't get me wrong, I love Led Zep, but they are rock, not metal. How the heck can a band with a ton of folk songs be considered metal? I think you're listening to Stairway To Heaven and a Whole Lotta Love too much, my friend. Perhaps you should listen through their whole catalogue? Travelling Riverside Blues? Very metal indeed. How about Friends? Bron-Yr-Aur? Or maybe I'm Gonna Crawl? Better yet, there's Carouselambra? There's a reallllllllll metal song for ya.

Deep Purple also isn't metal. If so, you might as well lump Kiss and Aerosmith in there too. All 3 rock acts are really damn close, but not quite there. Early Sabbath is definitely metal. That being said, DP only had two cds that could be considered metal - Machine Head and Perfect Strangers. I bet if you asked Ian Gillen if he thought the Purple were metal, he'd probably order you and him a good stiff drink and tell you they're a rock band. Kiss is arguably the closest out of Purple, Aerosmith and Kiss. Their sound is very crunchy and agressive. Aerosmith is the least metal of the 3 easily. I won't even go into why, since it should be evident from listening to their music. Rush isn't metal either for that matter. Great progressive rock band, but if you want a prog artist that sounds metal, look to King Diamond/Mercyful Fate and Dream Theater. I can keep going on, and write a book about the difference...but I don't want to bore the shit out of everyone either.[Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by metalmaz from Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:07:39 AM)

metalmaz wrote:

The trouble is the the definition of what type of music Rock N Roll is has changed,

In the 50's the like of Elvis, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis were regarded as rock and roll. Then the Beatles (who were more pop orientatated in the early days). The Stones/Kinks/Animals were more rock/blues orientated.

For me the likes of rock began with Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Rush. Punk then took over for a short period. Then what is regarded as metal began with the likes of Priest and Maiden.

But with regards to the Rock and Rol Hall Of Fame, it embraces all types of music.

Perhaps a separate rock/metal hall of fame should be set up.

[metalmaz] Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:07:39 AM

The trouble is the the definition of what type of music Rock N Roll is has changed,

In the 50's the like of Elvis, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis were regarded as rock and roll. Then the Beatles (who were more pop orientatated in the early days). The Stones/Kinks/Animals were more rock/blues orientated.

For me the likes of rock began with Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Rush. Punk then took over for a short period. Then what is regarded as metal began with the likes of Priest and Maiden.

But with regards to the Rock and Rol Hall Of Fame, it embraces all types of music.

Perhaps a separate rock/metal hall of fame should be set up.

[Return_of_Darth_Painkiller_0870] Tuesday, July 01, 2008 4:53:25 AM

It would be nice to have a Metal Hall of Fame, but unless some rich metalhead does it themselves, it's never going to happen. That's just an honest assessment, but I would love to see one happen.

To answer your question Priestadict, there is a fairly decent article on the subject of heavy metal on wikipedia. Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music. Whitesnake could be classified as pop or hair metal. Pop and Hair metal refers to a lot of the bands popular during the 1980's. Acts such as Kiss, Poison, Cinderella could be classified as such. Another term relating to those 4 same acts and others like them would be glam metal, because they were all cutesy looking or because they were simply wearing make up (think 70's Kiss and early Motley Crue). Also, when referring to Whitesnake's sound, the likes of Bernie Marsden, John Sykes, Adrian Vandenberg and Steve Vai (I know I'm missing someone at the beginning of the list - oh well) all played on Whitesnake CD's during the band's heyday in the 80's.[Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by priestadict from Monday, June 30, 2008 3:42:06 PM)

priestadict wrote:

I have a stupid question: what's metal? are there rules?
I understand Heavy metal "born" with Iommi's guitar... and then? Is Whitesnake metal because of Doug Aldrich's guitar? or?
Can someone give me a "technical" explanation... I'm sure there are experts in this noticeboard!

[alecs56] Monday, June 30, 2008 7:26:30 PM

yes there should be a METAL hall of fame!!!!!!! there are some SUCK bands in the REGULAR HALL OF FAME THAT DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO STATURE THAT PRIEST,MAIDEN ,OR PANTERA,ANDTHE LIST GOE'S ON AND ON , I VOTE YES HEAVY METAL HALL OF FAME NOW

[priestaddict] Monday, June 30, 2008 3:42:06 PM

I have a stupid question: what's metal? are there rules?
I understand Heavy metal "born" with Iommi's guitar... and then? Is Whitesnake metal because of Doug Aldrich's guitar? or?
Can someone give me a "technical" explanation... I'm sure there are experts in this noticeboard!

[Drums01] Monday, June 30, 2008 2:47:53 PM

I will have to say the Priest should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

[scorpion01] Monday, June 30, 2008 10:49:46 AM

No! If there was and it was run by the music industry, Jethro Tull would probably be the first band inducted. If it was run by poeple who know metal the rest of the industry wouldn't take it serioulsy.

BUT JUDAS PRIEST ABSOLUTLEY BELONGS IN THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME

'cause they... proved to all the world METAL RULES THE LAND.

Edited at: Monday, June 30, 2008 10:50:20 AM

[MASI 73] Sunday, June 29, 2008 8:22:59 PM

What's up with bands like RUSH, which in my opinion are master of the trade being passed up year after year. I mean there are so many bands that deserve the top honors and get passed up. I know RUSH is not metal, but their influence is heard on so many metal and contemporary bands its not even funny. Metal was an art for rebels, heard by rebels and made for rebels. Hell, growing up in the late 70's and 80's listening to metal was your staple of rebelion. I think there should be a metal hall of fame. Can you imagine the induction ceremony? I don't think Carly Simon would be invited!!!