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Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

I just put on a 3rd deep on one of my newly installed hives, even though the second deep isn't completely drawn out.

My own feeling is that they'll draw out new frames vertically before they'll do so horizontally.

So, the second and third deeps won't be completely drawn, but the bees will expand the broodnest vertically as the side frames of the lower deeps fills with pollen and nectar.

Am I wrong? Is this a correct 'limitless brood' nest assumption?

Your correct on that assumption. When adding s 3rd, I take a brood frame out of both deeps and move up to the 3rd. Place new undrawn where brood was taken from. Place new frame between top 2 brood frames. Line up all new frames vertical in the middle. 10-14 days check progress, do it again.

Note: make sure the middle frames get drawn. I have lost a couple hives in winter due to bees getting stuck on oneside. But that was also before I started wrapping hives.

Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

WLC, by giving the bees undrawn in the middle this will help deplete wax builders on strong hives. If the hive seems slow to build thenadd drawn in the middle. I use undrawn to slow a hive down. Drawn to speed a hive up.

Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

Tim: Do you think that providing top entrances is important in 'pulling up' the bees and expanding both the broodnest and honey stores vertically?

I could always just offset a top super and find out, but I want to hear your thoughts on this.

Top entrance is definitely critical in winter for several reasons. A lot of bees breathing. I'm in the lake effect snow belt of lake Michigan, nothing to get 2' of snow (luckily not much past couple years).

Spring/summer they'll use all entrances provided. A lot of bees coming/going.

Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

Would the same kind of space/arrangement considerations apply to honey supers as well?

For example, would moving up two drawn honey medium frames into the next upper honey super do the same thing as moving up two brood frames?

They'll take to the drawn frames first before drawing new. I've tried just putting 2-4 in middle the rest ne. Doesn't seem to work ad well as checker boarding supers.
I color code supers, yellow drawn, tan new and gray borrowed (which I lose half the honey out of 200 to the guy with bobcat). But get to use his honey house till I get mine up and running(another project in my free time..lol).

Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

However the other driver in this is that along the thread Tim didn't participate, but instead, another member with little knowledge of bees, has been making wild and over exuberant claims on Tim's behalf, some of which have since been denied by Tim. This, and these claims created some rather understandable scepticism, which extended to the whole thing even the true claims.

Oh for heaven's sake. The only "claim" I made about Tim's approach that was later proven to be wrong, as far as I know, was my idea that he was still working as a carpenter, an idea I got from a tertiary source. It has absolutely no bearing on his beekeeping methods. What a silly thing to whine about. Furthermore, Dean has plenty of knowledge about bees and he tried to tell you about Tim's methods too.

I'm really glad Tim is here. Makes it a little harder for folks to call him a liar to his face, it appears.

Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

For those more interested in bees than personal argument, it is mid winter here, and I have set up some hives according to the Tim Ives method. My hives winter in 2 deeps, but I've found some very strong ones and given them another box. Done maybe 8 or nine hives. They will be managed this season the Tim Ives way.

Not saying anything silly like I'm a convert, our flow patterns are different and don't know if the method will fit here. But I'll try anything once.

Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

Whoah! You have been away a long time, then you come back with so much anger.

Since you called me out by name, you appear to be insinuating that about me. Hope not.
Lucky I'm here too, makes it a little harder for you to get away with something like that.

Doubt Tim has a problem with anything I said, but if he did I'm sure he would rather discuss in person, than have the lackey do it for him.

No, I was talking about WLC, who made many statements about what Tim was doing, based on absolutely no actual facts. He as much as called Tim a liar. As you may have noticed, his groundless surmises were completely wrong in every respect.

I've been up in the North Country, living in a tent with no internet. I come back and check the thread and you're still whining about stuff I didn't say over a month ago. Maybe you'd care to list a few of the incorrect assertions I made about Tim's approach to beekeeping?

I didn't think so.

I'm sure Tim would be surprised to know he has a lackey. Are you unclear on the purpose of this forum? I brought him up because Randy Oliver mentioned him as a successful treatment-free beekeeper. I tried to relay some information about his methods, from my correspondence with him and other sources, because he was not a member here and I found his approach interesting. I thought other members might find it interesting too, which is apparently correct.

You know, if you get upset every time a new beekeeper has an opinion, you'll be upset constantly.

Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

When I spoke in NJ. There was a beekeeper Ed Vaeth that had several 3 deep hives(100% survival). He was pretty much doing what I was, pre 09' pulling a split dropping the 3 rd down then supering. This year he supered up earlier what he could then split the rest. Get on FB, follow what's going on there in NENJ...

Re: Going Treatment Free - step 1

You know how it is. We lackeys are prone to intemperance. Could be that we don't like to be called lackeys.

It's just kind of annoying, finding out that you're still nailing yourself up on that "rhaldridge don't gimme no respect!" cross. Yeah, it's true, but you get what you give.

Perhaps you should refrain from making stuff up. I'm still waiting for that big list of things I said about Tim's methods that you claim were incorrect. Of course, we all know you aren't going to come up with anything like that, because everything I said came from Tim himself, from Randy Oliver, and from various web authors who wrote about Tim's methods, after direct observation of his yards.

I'm not planning to follow Tim's methods in every respect, even though I believe that his is a very good system, judging by the results he gets. I'm more interested in making bees than making honey. But I like a lot of the concepts he uses. No treatment, no sugar, big brood nests, survivor genetics-- all good ideas, as far as I can tell.

For example, I now have a couple more hives in the North Country, but when I go back in a few weeks, I'm getting a nuc from some Mennonite beekeepers there who have been treatment free for some years now. I'm going to put it in a horizontal hive similar to what I have here in Florida, because those hives are doing phenomenally well. These horizontal hives are the equivalent of three deeps, and can be supered. Mine are set up so that I could put 9 medium supers on each without any super being more than shoulder height. It seems an interesting experiment to me-- no ladders needed. Also, the long hives are really cheap and easy to build, and even easier to inspect.

But you go on with your name calling and your snark. I guess you're too set in your ways to change.