I think you overestimate the Stone, I used CR in order to either kite or hinder creeps trying to run away.

That Fulgurite stone is still really nice for slows. A creep can pop one of those pots that cause 250 damage to break a CR slow. Dropping that stone between you and the creep you're trying to kite can be a lifesaver. Plus, attunes 3 and a 3s CD........ awesomeness!

I think you overestimate the Stone, I used CR in order to either kite or hinder creeps trying to run away. The stone has other uses ofc, the stun can at the right situation be really awesome.

Oh yeah Chilling Rhetoric was far better in regards to slowing/kiting ability than Fulgarite runestone has been. Unfortunately, and again I can link Jinjaah's thoughts, slows in general were too prevalent in the moors, and Chilling Rhetoric being one of the strongest slows (ranged, uncurable, tactical), it had to go.

Envoyé par Nouri

A creep can pop one of those pots that cause 250 damage to break a CR slow

I think he's comparing the older improved Chilling Rhetoric, not the current Chilling Rhetoric, to fulgarite runestone. The older one where it was severe slow, if dmg was applied, it turned into a more moderate slow.

The old version of CR was indeed an OP skill. The Fulgrite stone is still pretty sweet, though. Lots of things about it to like. Neither its slow or stun affected by damage. Attunes 3 so can be used as a good attunement builder. Three second CD. AoE affects. Situationally, there are some great ways it can be used.

Some really good points and suggestions, Legona. Maybe when the devs get through nerfing our mits and DPS in U13, they'll give some thought to some of your suggestions.

On a side note, it just amazes me that when people complain about PvE being too easy (and rightfully so), devs propose a fix that nerfs our DPS and mits instead of just making PvE mobs hit harder. How do they intend to have challenging PvE And playable PvMP when a PvE mob hits for next to nothing and a PvMP creep can hit you for a third of your health on a crit?

Very concerned with the RK in its current state, may probably move to my minstrel full time.

The lack of communication from Jinjaah, the lack of changes being made and combined with the huge nerf's imposed onto us will ruin the gameplay. Maybe you think I sound dramatic? wait until the update is rolled out, I will sit back and watch the outburst commence from my minstrel.

i have one question , jinjaah still rune keeper developer ? i asked this because , we have some topics in bullroarer about rk and him don't answered anything, but i see him answers in champions topic today like this https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...95#post7137295 . The question is where is jinhaah?

The silence is deafening. Are RK suggestions going to be implemented in update 13? Any improvement to BB jewellry set bonus, legacies, long animations, skill trees, and numerous skill improvements.

In general, no answer (including silence) is an answer, just possibly not one we're particularly happy with

It is safe and feasible to assume, that this late in the game, the suggestions mentioned in this thread, and other threads, will not be implemented with Update 13. In all fairness, however, there doesn't seem to be sizeable changes to any classes with Update 13 other than some bug fixes. I presume there was too much on the "to-do list" for Update 13, and class changes didn't make the cut or was never on the list to begin with. I do not feel Jinjaah has abandoned us per se or has ignored our wishes or forgotten about this thread. I imagine he has every intention of addressing some of the points made here, and we simply wrongfully assumed it would be with Update 13.

That said, I would have appreciated a brief, honest, comment or post from Jinjaah, or another dev, indicating that we'd not realistically see changes with Update 13 weeks ago. At least then, I would have not had my hopes up for the last couple months. Or, that, strong efforts to get some things implemented other than bug fixes were attempted, but it just couldn't be done. But perhaps there would have been backlash from members of our community,and possibly rightfully so, at such a post and the safer part for Jinjaah was to say nothing at all.

It has been several months since HD release, and I would have thought that this being the first major update since release that we'd see changes. I am disappointed. Here's to hoping we will see some changes with Update 14.

edit: I am most interested in seeing some changes to our healing line, but if absolutely nothing else was done, I would be satisfied if bolster courage was nerfed. Please and thank you!

You don't come off as a jerk, you come off as a person who is deeply invested in this game and wants to see it do well.

I think communication is something we are trying to put an emphasis on this year and it has been a pretty wild ride this last couple months with work. Unfortunately I cannot spend enough time really communicating with you all as I would like and only get a couple moments a week when I can stop by, usually give a general response to a multitude of questions, and then disappear back into my lab to keep working. I don't want to make the same mistake again with talking about things too early and then having some unexpected events take place that cause some of the things we talk about to slide off the table. Its not fair to you and it makes me look like a jerk (and gingers can't be jerks! we are super nice people!).

I know it can be frustrating at times to feel like you are talking to a void, but one thing that will serve you well is to remain calm. Some developers have a thick skin, others do not. I screwed up pretty bad with update 13 and a lot of players got pretty upset with me. I don't blame them and just kind of accepted the anger and frustration that was thrown my way. In fact, it was kind of refreshing in some ways to see how passionate some people are about what you work on, even when it's people who at the time might just want to punch you in the face. But not everyone is built the same. Some people will instead of just lurk in the forums and grab the feedback they need without necessarily engaging people because either they don't want to deal with any backlash or perhaps they don't want to get in the situation I got myself into with 13. Regardless of the communication level on the other end, the more constructive your discussions are, the higher chance you have to lure an elusive dev into your discussions.

I rewrote that section a little too many times so I apologize if it sounds a little random.

Okay, after reading Jinjaah's posting, it makes me want to apologize for all the ranting I've been doing that has been directed at them. I think a big part of the problem is HD was hugely unpopular with a large percentage of the player base (myself included). Because of the extreme nature of the changes in HD and players' responses to them, the fix list is gigantic. HD broke so much that I expect it will take at least 6 to 8 months after its launch to sort through the rubble and get things working to most peoples' satisfaction again. As a result, lots of people (myself included) are frustrated with the current state of their classes, and impatient when it comes to fixes.

I work in IT, and the organization I work for has lots of customers. One thing I know for sure will get me in really hot water is soliciting customer feedback, and then 'seemingly' doing nothing with it. I say 'seemingly' because with lots of customers, you can have a very large To Do lists where you're working on many things simultaneously, and progress in any one particular area can be slow. Even when progress is slow, not assuring people from time-to-time that their feedback is still being addressed will kill your credibility after you've solicited their feedback. In such situations, it's sometimes far better to go after some low-hanging fruit before undertaking huge, complex, time-consuming changes or redesigns if you want to avoid having your customers wanting to lynch you for 'seemingly' doing nothing with their feedback.

P.S. I admire your honesty and guts. It takes a big Ginger to show up on the forums and say "I screwed up." We've all screwed up plenty, but very few will show up and say so.

In general, no answer (including silence) is an answer, just possibly not one we're particularly happy with

It is safe and feasible to assume, that this late in the game, the suggestions mentioned in this thread, and other threads, will not be implemented with Update 13. In all fairness, however, there doesn't seem to be sizeable changes to any classes with Update 13 other than some bug fixes. I presume there was too much on the "to-do list" for Update 13, and class changes didn't make the cut or was never on the list to begin with. I do not feel Jinjaah has abandoned us per se or has ignored our wishes or forgotten about this thread. I imagine he has every intention of addressing some of the points made here, and we simply wrongfully assumed it would be with Update 13.

That said, I would have appreciated a brief, honest, comment or post from Jinjaah, or another dev, indicating that we'd not realistically see changes with Update 13 weeks ago. At least then, I would have not had my hopes up for the last couple months. Or, that, strong efforts to get some things implemented other than bug fixes were attempted, but it just couldn't be done. But perhaps there would have been backlash from members of our community,and possibly rightfully so, at such a post and the safer part for Jinjaah was to say nothing at all.

It has been several months since HD release, and I would have thought that this being the first major update since release that we'd see changes. I am disappointed. Here's to hoping we will see some changes with Update 14.

edit: I am most interested in seeing some changes to our healing line, but if absolutely nothing else was done, I would be satisfied if bolster courage was nerfed. Please and thank you!

After reading jinjaah's champion thread post (thanks LorenNell), I am disappointed because of expectations/high hopes but understand. For me, an undesired answer is much better than silence. It is obvious that class changes was just too much to accomplish for u13. I would like to see incremental changes for the rk every update (as said low hanging fruit). However, I do appreciate all the time and effort the devs put into this well loved game.

We all know that Jinjahh has a lot to do, but it has been 3 months since he posted here. We’d all like to hear what changes/fixes are on the way for 13.1

There are plenty of things in this thread that need attention. One item that affects lower level RKs is how useless Epic for the Ages is. At level 18 you get this ‘Big Heal’ skill – but you can’t use it because you have no way to get the attunement up to use the skill. We could use Parchments, but they don’t work. We could make/have made/buy Enamels & Inlays, but why must someone have to get additional items to be able to use a Basic skill? Writ of Health should be the basic skill.

I don’t intend for this to be as mean as it will sound, but I have to wonder – how many Developers Play an RK?

Just look at the BB DPS jewelry set bonuses, and ask yourself, would anyone who plays an RK come up with such worthless set bonuses? 10% chance for 1 extra attunement?!?!? Lol. Now think about how many times that issue has been raised in the forums. Is it reasonable that we should expect it to take 6 months, 9 months, 12 months to fix an issue as simple as a set bonus on some jewelry? Five months after HD's launch, and still nothing done on something as simple to fix as that.

I don’t intend for this to be as mean as it will sound, but I have to wonder – how many Developers Play an RK?

The short answer is not many, I suspect.. or, perhaps they once did, but don't any longer and haven't in a long while. But I suspect that of a couple other classes as well. There are many skills that look great on paper or were designed to have good intentions, but don't function well in practice (BI is just one example, HD jewelry set is another, though I can't see how the HD jewelry set bonus even looked good on paper) and end up being very clunky. So, in my opinion, it's reasonable to think that the devs neither play the class leading up to major changes nor do they play after the major changes are done, and probably don't have the desire to do so in their free time. I don't fault them for that, as long as player feedback is taken into consideration. We'll see if any of the feedback within these forums are still being considered in the upcoming patches/updates.

Not too many fixes on the way for RK's in 13.1 aside from I believe parchments are being addressed as its been really unfortunate those never got updated since update 12. A couple things I would like to focus on going forward for the RK to update 14 is:

Duration of healing over time effects.
- We tried to make the rotation more interesting by making the durations lower and forcing the RK to stay on their toes, but I think we swung too far in that direction where it feels rather frustrating to manage.

Attunement contribution redux.
- Part of the change in u12 was to make the attunement cashout make the RK feel like they could swing a lot faster and be rewarded for building up attunement to then cashout. Right now the cashout doesn't scale in a meaningful way where 1 battle of healing attunement doesn't feel that much different from 9 attunement. Right now it feels as the RK only half embraces this change currently on live and we would like it to remedy this next update.

There are of course other things that we are aiming for but I don't want to promise the world again, only to give you a bag of dirt. As we work on more things I can pop in and talk about them.

Not too many fixes on the way for RK's in 13.1 aside from I believe parchments are being addressed as its been really unfortunate those never got updated since update 12. A couple things I would like to focus on going forward for the RK to update 14 is:

Duration of healing over time effects.
- We tried to make the rotation more interesting by making the durations lower and forcing the RK to stay on their toes, but I think we swung too far in that direction where it feels rather frustrating to manage.

Attunement contribution redux.
- Part of the change in u12 was to make the attunement cashout make the RK feel like they could swing a lot faster and be rewarded for building up attunement to then cashout. Right now the cashout doesn't scale in a meaningful way where 1 battle of healing attunement doesn't feel that much different from 9 attunement. Right now it feels as the RK only half embraces this change currently on live and we would like it to remedy this next update.

There are of course other things that we are aiming for but I don't want to promise the world again, only to give you a bag of dirt. As we work on more things I can pop in and talk about them.

-Jinjaah

Jinjaah,

What about our DNF duration and cooldown being out of sync? Ever since HD Build 3 some of us have spoken about how bad the change to have a 5min duration on the DNF skill while leaving a 10min cooldown harms the RK position in a group for resurrecting group members. In a livestream earlier this month you commented on a question about this saying that this was something you would consider and look it and that that making them last for the same duration sounded reasonable.

What about our DNF duration and cooldown being out of sync? Ever since HD Build 3 some of us have spoken about how bad the change to have a 5min duration on the DNF skill while leaving a 10min cooldown harms the RK position in a group for resurrecting group members. In a livestream earlier this month you commented on a question about this saying that this was something you would consider and look it and that that making them last for the same duration sounded reasonable.

Thanks,

Yeah I think the sort of change would be an update 14 thing. I didn't want to call it out but its in the list of potential changes on the table.

Jinjaah - Thank you, sincerely, for providing us an update. I'm happy to have gotten an honest reply in terms of when we might see some changes.

I am also quite happy to hear you'll be re-evaluating/focusing on the duration of hots (and maybe return MV to what it was please ?? ) and look forward to what you/the team comes up with as far as attunement goes.

If you can fit it in in the upcoming months/weeks, please also re-visit:

1. Bombastic Inspiration - Overall design & purpose should be re-evaluated. For a "capstone" to the trait line, I'm not seeing this as very functional at the moment, other than an additional hot to add to our arsenal that often results in overheal. I do like the idea of having a "trigger" point where the large heal is automatically done if the target drops below a certain threshold. Please also look at the animation kickback from BI. It feels worse than the CoS of the minstrel, honestly, though I have yet to find a "sos" skill that helps counter the delay there.

2. Rallying Verse Trait - Any chance of this being changed into something more functional? I doubt there are many RKs that put any points in this at all. It seems a wasted spot.

3. All Fates Rock - I hope you still consider the rock to have failed its "toughness" test.

4. Utility - you mentioned, once, in reply to another thread, that our overall utility was a valid concern to have. I hope you still feel that way.

Otherwise, honestly, thank you.

Envoyé par Jinjaah

Not too many fixes on the way for RK's in 13.1 aside from I believe parchments are being addressed as its been really unfortunate those never got updated since update 12. A couple things I would like to focus on going forward for the RK to update 14 is:

Duration of healing over time effects.
- We tried to make the rotation more interesting by making the durations lower and forcing the RK to stay on their toes, but I think we swung too far in that direction where it feels rather frustrating to manage.

Attunement contribution redux.
- Part of the change in u12 was to make the attunement cashout make the RK feel like they could swing a lot faster and be rewarded for building up attunement to then cashout. Right now the cashout doesn't scale in a meaningful way where 1 battle of healing attunement doesn't feel that much different from 9 attunement. Right now it feels as the RK only half embraces this change currently on live and we would like it to remedy this next update.

There are of course other things that we are aiming for but I don't want to promise the world again, only to give you a bag of dirt. As we work on more things I can pop in and talk about them.

Jinjaah - Thank you, sincerely, for providing us an update. I'm happy to have gotten an honest reply in terms of when we might see some changes.

I am also quite happy to hear you'll be re-evaluating/focusing on the duration of hots (and maybe return MV to what it was please ?? ) and look forward to what you/the team comes up with as far as attunement goes.

If you can fit it in in the upcoming months/weeks, please also re-visit:

1. Bombastic Inspiration - Overall design & purpose should be re-evaluated. For a "capstone" to the trait line, I'm not seeing this as very functional at the moment, other than an additional hot to add to our arsenal that often results in overheal. I do like the idea of having a "trigger" point where the large heal is automatically done if the target drops below a certain threshold. Please also look at the animation kickback from BI. It feels worse than the CoS of the minstrel, honestly, though I have yet to find a "sos" skill that helps counter the delay there.

2. Rallying Verse Trait - Any chance of this being changed into something more functional? I doubt there are many RKs that put any points in this at all. It seems a wasted spot.

3. All Fates Rock - I hope you still consider the rock to have failed its "toughness" test.

4. Utility - you mentioned, once, in reply to another thread, that our overall utility was a valid concern to have. I hope you still feel that way.

Otherwise, honestly, thank you.

1. Neat idea! I think that is certainly something that would make it feel more legendary.

2. Agreed, that could use some flair.

3. Yes, it certainly needs to take some +toughness for the future.

4. I do still feel that way, the means of bringing it back is still up in the air however.

EDIT: To the second part of number 1, Egg and I were looking at this last week. I will check in with her and see if we were able to fix this up. There is something odd happening with that skill that we are aware of, the fix is not so easy though.

Thanks for the replies jinjaah. As others have mentioned, skill delay is causing a huge issue with healing flow on top of decreased durations. Others noted RW and BI but I have also noticed Frost Lore has at least a 2 second delay as well before any other heal skill can be used. I have indeed bugged these but just wanted to put it out here as well. The other bone of contention with me is ground targeted skills. Seemed great in theory at first but in practice I find it incredibly clunky in terms of healing. For other skill lines it isn't bad but for healing, I find it awkward personally. I know you can't address it all at once just keeping these thoughts fresh.