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I've started to meet with teachers for trial lessons. I'm having some trouble deciding what the best tact for me to take as a returning adult.

I was a typical child that played from early childhood through high school. I continued to dabble a bit in college and then didnt' touch a piano for 20 years. I was likely what would be considered an intermediate level player when I quit.

I've been dabbling a bit on my own the last month while trying to find a teacher. As an adult I'm understanding that really held me back when I was younger was technique issues...and understanding the music. Having benefitted from a few non-major music classes in college, and now having 20 more years of personal music appreciation under my belt, I better understand music which I think will help me "hear" what I should be playing.

I'm finding teachers have one of two approaches with me....one very unstructured - work from different pieces at different level(starting around Level 4) and work on a few simultaneously to focus on different techniques, scales, and challenges(have a "stretch" piece in the mix to work on long term).

Or a very structured system of method boooks, excercise books, scale work.

I'm not sure what is the best approach. I really would like to develop more "muscality" from improved technique. I'm not sure if this is best achieved through sctructured systems or not...and I'm not sure what level I should return back at.

Just curuious what teachers here find to be the best way to work with returning adults who aren't at the very beginning level but have been away from a piano for decades. And what advice you might have to offer a in finding a teacher?

If I am teaching you, I will put you:15 minutes of lesson with structure, I will assign you a method book at your level, then religiously follow the method book.Then,15 minutes of lesson without structure. You will bring in any music that you like and we will learn it. If I found any parts that you need more explanation, or technical help, I will seek out some other resources to help you. That would be our weekly 30 minutes lesson.

Welcome to the board, Desert. And welcome back to the piano. Your question sounds reasonable: which plan of attack to make you a better player - highly structured versus less structured, with the former mode rooted less in pieces than in technical exercises.

EZ has offered an agreeable answer right down the middle, though I hope you will take longer lessons than 30 minutes.

But I think you need to keep taking trial lessons or interviews until you find a *relationship* that seems promising, and then go with this teacher for a few months and see what unfolds. You dropped piano long ago, I would wager, not because of your scales and chord patterns that were sluggish, but because you did not have a teacher who inspired you. And because you were not playing pieces that really turned your crank.

Furthermore, I would hope you would select a teacher - or a succession of teachers over the next few years - who will try to teach you according to *your* musical desires.

Thanks for the welcome. You are correct, Peter K. Mose. My piano teacher retired right around my high school years and I never really had a teacher after that that "clicked". Maybe if i had been able to stay with that same teacher all those years I would have progressed and not felt like"i'm never goign to get better than this." I had a few friends in college that played in the symphony and I think I got discouraged as I wasn't seeing any progress while they were off touring...

I"m looking at 45-60 minute lesson. I work at a university so I've been able to get names of some graduate students and affiliated faculty that teach off campus and have met with a couple of them. I'm finding each seems to focus on the same things with me -how I physically play: using fingers, arms, body, etc and how that affects the music. I think they are all on the right track with me but eash such different manner of approaching and teaching the same things! I feel so uncertain about what might be the best road to try out...

I"m also trying to figure out how to say "no" to the ones I won't choose and not burn a bridge should I want to try lessons with them in the future. This seemed a lot easier when I was a kid and my mom found me a teacher! (OK a lot in life seemed easier when I was 10 then 45!)

Anyway, thanks for the input. I appreciate it. I"m enjoying being back at it. I've had a lot of stress the last couple years from a combination of graduate school for myself and caring for elderly parents...the piano has been calling to me recently and I believe is just what I need in life now. I just don't want to find myself frustrated and giving up again....!

Desert, please stay away from graduate students, and in general stay away from anyone connected to a university - *unless* their backgrounds happen to be either in music education or piano pedagogy: in these cases they might be worth an audition. In fact, generally speaking, I'd say stay away from any prospective teacher under about 35-40 years of age. You need a pro, and someone with life experience, not a beginner.

If you manage to find someone who actually has a background in adult learning, or who is comfortable with adult restarters, he or she will be closer to a good fit for you. There are precious few of us, though. Maybe four.

A public school music teacher or church organist would quite possibly suit you better than a piano teacher.

***

On the subject of saying "no," I would just pay for a single lesson with each of several teachers, and pick their brains for an hour. Don't tell them you are looking for a weekly teacher, even though you are: tell them you plan to study on your own, and need their assistance mapping a plan. This way you're not saying "no" to anyone, you're just taking a one-off lesson.

Then go back to your favorite teacher a few weeks later, and give him or her a try for a few months. If it doesn't quite click, move on to teacher #2.

Desert, please stay away from graduate students, and in general stay away from anyone connected to a university - *unless* their backgrounds happen to be either in music education or piano pedagogy: in these cases they might be worth an audition. In fact, generally speaking, I'd say stay away from any prospective teacher under about 35-40 years of age. You need a pro, and someone with life experience, not a beginner.

If you manage to find someone who actually has a background in adult learning, or who is comfortable with adult restarters, he or she will be closer to a good fit for you.

Desert, please stay away from graduate students, and in general stay away from anyone connected to a university - *unless* their backgrounds happen to be either in music education or piano pedagogy: in these cases they might be worth an audition. In fact, generally speaking, I'd say stay away from any prospective teacher under about 35-40 years of age. You need a pro, and someone with life experience, not a beginner.

I don't think age is really an issue here. I teach adult students and fit into this age category. Grad students, I agree, but why put a limit on age? I've been teaching for 15 years and DO have life experiences and am not a beginner.

Desert Dweller: I to am thinking of taking piano lessons for the first time in many years. If you are in the Phoenix area or anyone else for that matter that can recommend a piano teacher feel free to email me.

In any field, grad students can be all over the map in experience, maturity, age and competence.

At the university I attended, some of the lower-division courses were taught by grad students, and they were way, way, way better teachers than some of the tenured professors! And I actually had one professor who freely admitted that grad students can actually be better, more effective teachers.

Desert, please stay away from graduate students, You need a pro, and someone with life experience, not a beginner.

I agree you need someone with teaching experience - not just playing experience. Just because someone can play well doesn't mean they can teach.

However that graduate student might have plenty of teaching experience. You don't know until you ask.

This is true. When I was a grad student I had already been teaching for 5 years and had worked with quite a few adult students. I would not have taken on an advanced or late intermediate student at that time, however.

In general, their motive for teaching is to supplement their income. They may be excellent players but they may be less than motivated to really work with you. Also, they will certainly be short term as they will almost always be graduating and moving on, elsewhere.

It is often best to find a teacher who is at least as old as you are. That improves the communication level during your lessons.

But I think you need to keep taking trial lessons or interviews until you find a *relationship* that seems promising, and then go with this teacher for a few months and see what unfolds. You dropped piano long ago, I would wager, not because of your scales and chord patterns that were sluggish, but because you did not have a teacher who inspired you. And because you were not playing pieces that really turned your crank.

Furthermore, I would hope you would select a teacher - or a succession of teachers over the next few years - who will try to teach you according to *your* musical desires.

It so often happens that people get mediocre teaching first time round, where their first teacher simply went through material, focusing on the pieces, without giving much in the way of skills. When adults take lessons for the first time, they often get similar, because it's deemed to be a hobby. Or if they had lessons before, the emphasis goes to more advanced pieces, rather than missing skills. (Assuming poor first teaching). Why not go after the skills, rather than "the music we like" or something vague like "inspiring" teachers. I'll tell you that learning IS inspiring. When we find out how to do things, it is magical. No great personality can match that. And how wonderful that person can play is also useless, unless s/he knows how to pass on the skills.

There is nothing magical-inspiring about music we love. In fact, it can be discouraging, if the skills are not there. Music we love doesn't just "make" us suddenly be able to play. Yes, maybe we'll practice and practice until our fingers are worn to the bone if we love the piece, but if we don't know HOW to practice, how to approach the piece, how to develop or skills, this can actually be soul-destroying rather than inspiring.

The ABF ran two surveys some years ago. In both of them, a large proportion of the adult students said that they wished their teachers focused more on technique and theory, and stopped focusing so much on pieces. They wanted more formal things, more structure. All that time I thought I was alone, because I always read about what "we" adults want. And here it is again: pieces we like playing, and a nice teacher personality.===============================Here is what I would look for, short and simple:

A teacher who can identify what skills I'm missing, and what present habits are blocking me from playing better, and who has a plan on how to get me there. If it's mainly through pieces, fine. Just make sure those pieces are geared toward my learning needs, rather than my tastes.

I am bothered by the age discrimination that seems to be prevalent in this thread. Who cares about the age? I know of old teachers who are awful...one old lady who would sip at her nipper bottle during her $5/half hour lesson and fall asleep most of the time while the student plays.

I agree with keystring: the most importnat thing is to find someone that can help you attain your goals in piano, one who knows what skills you need in order to play what you want to play. Start getting picky about age and eye color and things like that and you make your search harder.

A teacher who can identify what skills I'm missing, and what present habits are blocking me from playing better, and who has a plan on how to get me there. If it's mainly through pieces, fine. Just make sure those pieces are geared toward my learning needs, rather than my tastes.

Thanks for this keystring; it's my new goal!!

_________________________ Having power is not nearly as important as what you choose to do with it.– Roald Dahl

A teacher who can identify what skills I'm missing, and what present habits are blocking me from playing better, and who has a plan on how to get me there. If it's mainly through pieces, fine. Just make sure those pieces are geared toward my learning needs, rather than my tastes.

Thanks for this keystring; it's my new goal!!

+1 I'm an Adult Beginner of forever in need of a teacher, and with some small rewording it succinctly describes what I want in a teacher.

A teacher who can identify what skills I'm missing, and what present habits are blocking me from playing better, and who has a plan on how to get me there. If it's mainly through pieces, fine. Just make sure those pieces are geared toward my learning needs, rather than my tastes.

Thanks for this keystring; it's my new goal!!

+1 I'm an Adult Beginner of forever in need of a teacher, and with some small rewording it succinctly describes what I want in a teacher.

Sounds like a pretty good description of anybody should want. It's almost the definition of a quality teacher.

1. If the pieces a teacher selects, especially for an adult learner, do not turn the student on, it doesn't matter how well suited these pieces may be to one's learning needs. This would not be a fine start to a new teacher-student relationship, and the chances are that it won't last long.

2. I didn't imagine it to be controversial, the idea that one gets better as a piano teacher over the years. The best ones are not in their teens and twenties. AZN and Morodiene are better teachers today than they were five or ten years ago, and will be better still in another five or ten years. So in this sense age does indeed matter, when one is sifting through the names of piano teachers to study with.

2. I didn't imagine it to be controversial, the idea that one gets better as a piano teacher over the years.

Maybe not exactly controversial - but certainly not a given either. Some improve steadily, some improve to a point, some never improve. Eventually all of us fade with age, as vision, hearing, and memory fade.

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The best ones are not in their teens and twenties.

That seems reasonable.

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AZN and Morodiene are better teachers today than they were five or ten years ago,

Yup.

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and will be better still in another five or ten years.

Probably those two, yes, but it's far from universal. Not everybody continues to improve, not everybody works at it. Improvement doesn't happen by osmosis, beyond the early years.

In my field (engineering) I see large improvements the first five years of experience. Then it tapers off over maybe the next ten. And while it's embarassing to admit, continued improvement among the older crowd is the exception, not the rule.

1. If the pieces a teacher selects, especially for an adult learner, do not turn the student on, it doesn't matter how well suited these pieces may be to one's learning needs.

I know that this is absolutely untrue for at least some of us. I don't know what proportion. It is also somewhat insulting to suggest that we need to be "turned on" by music before we can learn, or are willing to work on things.

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This would not be a fine start to a new teacher-student relationship, and the chances are that it won't last long.

I guarantee that especially of a teacher's primary goal was to find what music I like and based himself on that, that this relationship wouldn't even start. If he chooses pieces that will help me learn those things that are necessary, and those pieces happen to be music that I will also like, of course that is wonderful. But it's not an absolute necessity.

The thing which causes lessons to fail is poor teaching.

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I didn't imagine it to be controversial, the idea that one gets better as a piano teacher over the years.

That is not what you said. You said that an older teacher is preferable over a younger one, and set age as a criterion.

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It probably matters even more when teaching adults.

In fact, for adults age might indeed matter. One might want to avoid older teachers who have outmoded ideas about the limitations or supposed wishes of adult students. Fortunately things have shifted over the last decade.

Thank you to everyone for your input. A lot of points have been brought up here that are interesting.

I didn't go into a lot of details above but will say it was very important for me in looking for a teacher to find someone that would really concentrate on technique and theory...for the reason mentioned above, to break through the obstacles that held me back when I was young. I work at a university with a well-recognized music program that includes a pedagogy program. I had contacted the director of that for some suggestions on names and that's how I ended up with a list of names of doctoral students and faculty to talk to.

The caliber of the people I have met with - garduate student or otherwise - has been really impressive and well beyond what my teachers when I was younger were able to offer me. Having been a graduate TA myself I understand some of what was mentioned above - some graduate students take on the TA position as a means to live and aren't interested in nor focused on the teaching part. Myself, I had a goal to teach, and loved the work but I know I was unusual within my cohort in that regards. Had any of the people I met with been of this ilk I wouldn't have considered them, but those names I was given were doctoral students who had solid experience teaching and interest in teaching. I don't think any blanket statement can necessarily be used.

I did select a teacher to try and work with and am looking forward to moving forward with lessons. She is an accomplished performer and accompaniest, former faculty at the university, and has had a teaching studio locally for many years. She offered me what I feel is a good combination of focus on technique and theory along with a solid, but flexible, structure within which we would work. It was actually hard to make a decision.

When I was a TA, I already had 6-7 years of teaching experience and teaching was my primary goal, though I was majoring in performance for my masters. I had a thorough undergraduate training in pedagogy and music ed in my BA. I was assigned many different kinds of adult students as a TA, including a college professor from the linguistics department. It was a great experience and he signed up for more semesters with me.

Sure I'm a better teacher now than I was 25 years ago, but I was pretty good then!

I did select a teacher to try and work with and am looking forward to moving forward with lessons. She is an accomplished performer and accompaniest, former faculty at the university, and has had a teaching studio locally for many years. She offered me what I feel is a good combination of focus on technique and theory along with a solid, but flexible, structure within which we would work. It was actually hard to make a decision.

Sounds excellent. I love working with adults, including returning adults. If typically there is one thing that they lack, it is solid technique and theory. And, there is often an aversion to doing that work, but it is the foundation for true progress.