Swashbucklers aren't strong enough in PvP!

I'm just realizing how swashbucklers are the 2nd worst pvp class (no offence but i think buccaneers are 1st worst).We're meant to be the strongest class yet we only have 3 sneak attacks, and most of these aren't strong enough. We die easily when facing witchdoctors, musketeers or even privateers. I know we can cross the board in 2 turns but our companions wont follow.I have a few ideas on what we should get in the new 15 level (hopefully) update :Relentless (35% bonus attack when you hit)Relentless 2 (35% bonus attack when you hit, 3 times per round)Assassin's Snare (X2 damage poison, prevents powers, 3 rounds)Excavation (X4 damage plus 3 round bleeding)Enduring Shadowdance (+3 critical chance, 7 rounds)Assassin's speed (Dodge next 2 incoming powers -witchdoctor powers, musketeer powers, inferno round powers that cant be dodged etc-)So what do you think? Sure, it may seem a little op but we really need something good, we dont deal enough damage currently, expecially for the "Rouge class". I know Assassin's speed is kinda op, but it's what we need since we cant dodge powers. Tell me what you think or new powers please, :-)

I agree with this. I won't lie my main char is a swashbuckler too but swashbucklers really got weak after marleybone and aquila. Most of the powers and epic talents we received were junk. So first we got riposte rank 2, that was good. Then we got black fog, that was good too. Next, we received hurl knives which was just ok. Then first strike rank 3 which is the worst rank 3 epic talent KI could even think of. Next, we got assassin's shroud which is supposed to prevent healing but doesn't even work on the black eagle guys in aquila. Lastly we got that pitiful gambit of steel power. Idk what about swashbucklers KI dislikes but gambit of steel upset me the most. It has the same main effect as dance of steel except it triggers epic talents of you and your opponent. Who in the spiral cares if it triggers the epic talents of you and your opponent? If you use it against a musketeer or witchdoctor person the side effect doesn't even work. Swashbucklers really need some good powers and epic talents next world cause we're just getting weaker in pvp.

I agree with all of this; swashbucklers got nerfed a lot in the Aquilan and Marleybone update. Totally agree that gambit of steel sucks, my knives are at the very back of my deck, but I wish we had better powers, First strike is useless and is "used" only in pvp. Agree with critical for 7 rounds, but kinda disagree with the others, they're too op. Maybe Assassin's speed would be one round instead of two. Excavation sounds great but the name is a bit queer. But overall I agree, we're second worst only to buccaneers (no offense, even with KI's upgrades you guys still lag behind a little).

You're pretty powerful already. Let me explain why you have 3 poison spells one preventing healing. That's a lot of damage over time combined with your Five 2x damage attacks one providing bleeding and assassins strike 3x damage with bleeding. With grand shadow dance for many criticals. If you average 300 damage all those attacks damages combined seemed to calculate to 4800 Not to mention if you got some epic hits in there. Even after all this you still think your weak maybe you need some new gear. Blades of shade from Cadmus are pretty good for swash, And life kamis jewel from water guardian is also pretty good. It gives great juju combine that with blades of shade you will be pretty powerful! Good luck guys hope this helps you realize every class is balanced in pvp! . If you don't think they are leave that to Ki To handle.

How about we get our poison fixed (it's about time, they added all these new updates and fixes to musketeers power and buccaneers frenzy yet we still have ours broken), so it actually prevents all healing, and we can get a new poison in the update that maybe does X2 damage (double the normal poison) and has the ability to reduce damage output/ or reduce speed/ or reduce accuracy (which is kinda buccaneer stuff so i'd rather it not).A new shadowdance makes sense, our first was at 25, 2nd at 50 and maybe a 3rd at 75?And they should at least increase the damage from gambit of steel. It's pathetic, honestly. I don't see it 's use in pvp or pve. Since it triggers epics, and whe should be able to dodge these epics, couldn't it give us x2 dodge right before we use it? And maybe a new sneak attack, apparently excavation doesn't suit it as a name, so how about grand execution?But honestly, for a class that's "deadly with a blade", we're not that good.

I'm just realizing how swashbucklers are the 2nd worst pvp class (no offence but i think buccaneers are 1st worst).We're meant to be the strongest class yet we only have 3 sneak attacks, and most of these aren't strong enough. We die easily when facing witchdoctors, musketeers or even privateers. I know we can cross the board in 2 turns but our companions wont follow.I have a few ideas on what we should get in the new 15 level (hopefully) update :Relentless (35% bonus attack when you hit)Relentless 2 (35% bonus attack when you hit, 3 times per round)Assassin's Snare (X2 damage poison, prevents powers, 3 rounds)Excavation (X4 damage plus 3 round bleeding)Enduring Shadowdance (+3 critical chance, 7 rounds)Assassin's speed (Dodge next 2 incoming powers -witchdoctor powers, musketeer powers, inferno round powers that cant be dodged etc-)So what do you think? Sure, it may seem a little op but we really need something good, we dont deal enough damage currently, expecially for the "Rouge class". I know Assassin's speed is kinda op, but it's what we need since we cant dodge powers. Tell me what you think or new powers please, :-)

Merciless Jean Percy, 65

I disagree. Speaking as a Swashbuckler, it is entirely possible to beat the other classes in a 1v1, 2v2 etc. if you know what you're doing.

I had a 1v1 against a Privateer who was using the usual strategy of buff stacking. I got to her first chance and me and my companions started using our special powers left and right. We defeated her in a few rounds and after I defeated El Toro she fled.

If you know someone's strategy it's not too hard to counter it. I used what I had at my disposal and won, against seemingly bad odds.

I'm just realizing how swashbucklers are the 2nd worst pvp class (no offence but i think buccaneers are 1st worst).We're meant to be the strongest class yet we only have 3 sneak attacks, and most of these aren't strong enough. We die easily when facing witchdoctors, musketeers or even privateers. I know we can cross the board in 2 turns but our companions wont follow.I have a few ideas on what we should get in the new 15 level (hopefully) update :Relentless (35% bonus attack when you hit)Relentless 2 (35% bonus attack when you hit, 3 times per round)Assassin's Snare (X2 damage poison, prevents powers, 3 rounds)Excavation (X4 damage plus 3 round bleeding)Enduring Shadowdance (+3 critical chance, 7 rounds)Assassin's speed (Dodge next 2 incoming powers -witchdoctor powers, musketeer powers, inferno round powers that cant be dodged etc-)So what do you think? Sure, it may seem a little op but we really need something good, we dont deal enough damage currently, expecially for the "Rouge class". I know Assassin's speed is kinda op, but it's what we need since we cant dodge powers. Tell me what you think or new powers please, :-)

Merciless Jean Percy, 65

i have no idea what your talking about, the best 5 pvp players that I know are 2 buckler 2 privy and 1 witch, it all depends on your gear and your companion level

Now on to swashbucklers. Swashbucklers are the damage class. Our hide spell is pointless in PvP. Only our companions can attack via the team hide, while we cant move until the next turn. Due to this we get "bombed" by or somehow get caught in the range of a or while hidden. We can rarely activate our 2x damage from our hiding spell. Its annoying because I cant do a devastating hit like I am supposed to. My 2000-2500 damage weakens to a 1000-1200 damage. I suggest we be immune to bombs and fires already next to us when hidden. However we wont be immune if we walk into a trap or fire at least three squares away.

Also our hurl knives spells that slows our enemy is kind of useless too. We can only activate our hurl knife when the enemy is like 3 squares away, so what is the point if they can still come close to me when they are slowed down. Sure my companions can run to the back but I am stuck defenseless near 3 or 4 tough enemies. I suggest the range of this spell be improved to around 10 blocks, and have 0.5x bleeding for 2 turns.

We should also be able to stack at least 2/3 of our poisons on an enemy. Maybe a consequence is that the time effect of the poison will be reduced by 1-2 turns.

Dodge rate should also be improved. Most musketeers have 140 accuracy and swashbucklers 140 dodge. However most of the time musketeers hit us 70% of the time.

Also we need to have some glitches fixed (Eg 3rd tier poison)

Overall I think all classes are equal against computer enemies, but PvP is another story all together. What may seem amazing in PvE maybe pointless in PvP.

i have no idea what your talking about, the best 5 pvp players that I know are 2 buckler 2 privy and 1 witch, it all depends on your gear and your companion level

I'm a level 65 swash, so are the companions i usually use (El Toro, Bonnie and Zeena). My gear provides a Revive heal (Superior healing over 3 rounds), 3 extra back stab cards, and a mournsong. I still cant find my valor's fortress i'm planning to get from the earth guardian, and to Pickleastick who said we have 5 sneak attacks, we only have 3 by default. And our 3rd tier poison is broken, and doesn't prevent group healing.And Scarlet Freeman, i know what you mean as in rushing to a privateer, but then i don't get time to use my critical buff or shields, and i fear waiting them out as they'll chase me down. Plus our dodge is nothing even with my el toro buff, they have a 75% accuracy/dodge and then it's 100% if they bring el toro.What i'm saying is that we dont have enough "oomph" to be a threat in pvp. Even if we use a fortress, which lasts five rounds, we'll sacrifice 2 of those to use a shadowdance then attack. Maybe we should get a new shadowdance that lasts 7 rounds? And every school has an epic talent that is usefull against both melee and ranged attackers, (Buccs' bladestorm, Privy's repel borders, Witches Mojo rising and Echo, and Musks double tap) yet we have only epics that apply to melee only classes. Although relentless would be 'Op', shouldn't we get it if we really are "Deadly with a blade"?Let's look at the powers we got in the new update.Riposte 2: Very usefull against melee classes but then again it's completely useless as most classes are going all musketeer companions.Black Fog: Really good but then we could get hit by fire or gunnery'd down even if we seperate.Hurl Blade: The worst power any school could've gotten. It triggers quick draw and true grit, so using it on muskets is nothing. Also we have to be in a range of 3 squares to hit anyone with it. What were KI thinking???First Strike 3: Well, this is probably the worst 3rd tier of epic talents. Sure, it gives a slight extra damage boost, which i still can't see the difference, but it affects sneak attacks which only buccaneers or privateers use. When will they give us something useful?Assassin's Shroud: Its basically the same as the other poisons and only prevents single target healing, yet you can heal others or use group healing.Gambit of steel: Are you kidding me kingsisle! You could have at least made it X2 damage, and triggering epics when most of the time we'd rather not trigger a first strike is so unhelpful.So there's our powers, and 3 of them are of no use since they are weak or exactly alike the old ones. Swash's power has gone down since the last update, it's as if KingsIsle doesn't care about this class anymore, hence i am creating a witchdoctor.

I think pretty much all classes are even in pvp. Just your basic skill and gear is how you play it. Most of time people who don't have very good gear or skill lose and get angry and rant about stuff. Like if a buccaneer lost to a swashbuckler even though the bucc didn't have good tactics or gear he complains about unfairness. Not thinking maybe he should try new tactics or gear. So he decides to do the easiest thing, blame someone else, so he blames Ki for not balancing Classes in PvP. I am a privateer and a buccaneer beat me before. Its not impossible for swashbucklers to kill witchdoctors etc etc... Well I hope this may clear things up a bit more. Like I said in my last reply, Let Ki handle balancing issues.

With the right combination of attacks both a Swash and Bucc can do 1,000+ damage in a single round if you plan ahead enough. Both classes imo are underrated because players do not utilize their strengths. As a swash you want to take full advantage of your high damage, and potential to one shot most companions by combining Hiding+ Assassins strike+ Poison so the damage dealt cannot be healed. As a bucc you want to buff and stack your defense strength and accuracy and hang back until your can rush in a either take out or severely cripple enemy Musk/witch companions or the enemy player itself by using it's lvl 65 signature move (don't remember what it's called) I think a mistake most Swash and Bucc players make in PvP is that they are too scared to be aggressive. Their main strengths come from offense, it makes no sense to camp as a melee class. These classes are very strong, but take planning ahead to be effective.

I would switch the argument to, Swash and Bucc's aren't the weakest classes, but rather they take the most planning ahead since Witchdoctors and musketeers have the luxury of long-ranged attacks and mid-ranged group attacks and privateers have many buffs and heals. The long range classes will obviously be the easier ones to learn since you don't have to be as aggressive with them to do well.

Swashbucklers wouldn't be so weak in pvp if we hadn't received bad powers and epic talents after marleybone and aquila. KI you really need to boost hurl knives, first strike rank 3, and especially gambit of steel. Make hurl knives do times 2 damage instead of times 1. Have first strike rank 3 put a minor accuracy debuff on your opponent. Get rid of the trigger epic side effect on gambit of steel and have it do times 2 damage to all adjacent enemies or, deal times 1 damage to all adjacent enemies and stun all adjacent enemies for 1 round.

Swashbucklers wouldn't be so weak in pvp if we hadn't received bad powers and epic talents after marleybone and aquila. KI you really need to boost hurl knives, first strike rank 3, and especially gambit of steel. Make hurl knives do times 2 damage instead of times 1. Have first strike rank 3 put a minor accuracy debuff on your opponent. Get rid of the trigger epic side effect on gambit of steel and have it do times 2 damage to all adjacent enemies or, deal times 1 damage to all adjacent enemies and stun all adjacent enemies for 1 round.

Yeah, i like the ideas! Since we're meant to dodge, first strike 3 could reduce accuracy so we're more likely to dodge them! And the Hurl knives powers could have a range of 5, and add bleeding (Well, you are throwing knives at your enemy) and hurl blades should do X2 damage, as you said. And the stunning gambit of steel is kinda cool, at least then we'd have something to stop people from grouping together and sniping us out of the way. Stunning all enemies is slightly op, but then again you rarely find companions together like that (to stun them all).What i'm saying is we need more damage! We are the "rouge class" in MMO's, and it's not even possible to one hit kill the opponent, and i'm also thinking we should have something like reckless frenzy but different, since in our class description it says "we are not as tough as a buccaneer, sacrificing defence for damage". Maybe we get a power that increases our outgoing damage by 75% and increases incoming damage by 40%. Honestly, that would work out, since we are supposedly doing major damage to enemies, but dieing quite quickly.KingsIsle, please, look at the other classes and what they got, and compare it to us. Broken powers, useless powers, give us a buff like the buccaneers got!

Your the best class, and how dare you even say that you need improvements. If you think buccaneers are worse than you shouldn't they be getting improvements. You can beat any class easy if you tried, but buccaneers can't. By the way swashbucklers weren't meant to have buff. There a damage dealer not a tank.

Your the best class, and how dare you even say that you need improvements. If you think buccaneers are worse than you shouldn't they be getting improvements. You can beat any class easy if you tried, but buccaneers can't. By the way swashbucklers weren't meant to have buff. There a damage dealer not a tank.

No we're not the best pvp class witchdoctors, musketeers, or privateers are. How about you check your facts before you claim swashbuckler class being the best. Make a max lvl swashbuckler and pvp with him and let us know your results.

Stop complaining and think of new tactics. Its up to you to prove your a threat not the developers. Sure they could add new moves but that means little. You have to use them. I do agree that some moves need to be buffed like hurl knife but if you get new moves it wouldn't be fair to other classes.

How about instead of saying "You are wrong" or "How dare you say" Let's phrase it into things like "In my opinion" and "It seems to me"? That way no one is being attacked and all opinions are valid even if you don't agree. Agreeing to disagree is perfectly ok. OK

How about instead of saying "You are wrong" or "How dare you say" Let's phrase it into things like "In my opinion" and "It seems to me"? That way no one is being attacked and all opinions are valid even if you don't agree. Agreeing to disagree is perfectly ok. OK

Well said!

In my opinion I agree with storm ninja. Swashbucklers need an upgrade on spells they already have. Most other classes use spells from early levels, but we pretty much neglect various spells because we don't need any use of them. Hurl Knives should get a decent bit of more range, something of up to 7 squares at least. Gambit of steele could have some poison attached to it, and I also think that when we actiavte our gallant defense we should get some major dodge and damage boosts. Killing our selves using this spell is not at all nice and is very hard to use in PvP (just like a buccaneers bladestorm 2).

To be totally honest, Swashbucklers are not UP. Too many people want to be the Swashbuckler class because it's the most appealing, but few actually know how to use the class effectively.

Whether you're a Swashbuckler, a Privateer, a Musketeer, or what you won't survive in this game's meta without farmed gear. Swashbucklers have high enough dodge to avoid hits from their opponents and with the Assassin's Strike they have they'll deal plenty of damage.

In PvP you need to carry Valor's Fortress as well as Levithan's Call. Vicious Charge is also a big "Yes!" if you're a Swashbuckler.

The purpose of the Hurl Knives series isn't to deal a lot of damage. It's to prevent weakened targets from fleeing.

Black Fog definitely the best power for forcing your opponent into a defensive pivot in 1v1, it's outclassed by Suppression Fire in team play for obvious reasons. The hidden is meant to be used as soon as you use it, so don't use the power in the beginning of play and think you'll just move into range then attack. You use Black Fog and attack that same round. Your Swashbuckler may lose the bonus, but you still have 2 other ones.

Gambit of Steel is very strong if used properly. The game has shifted to a bigger use of melee companions and some people even run full melee. You'll dish out quick hits with First Strike, followed by Riposte and then the Gambit of Steel.

Swashbucklers are amazing offensive threats in PvP if you can use them to their best ability. I'm planning to post some power and skills for all of the classes sometime next week and I think I've made some powers you guys will really like.

To be totally honest, Swashbucklers are not UP. Too many people want to be the Swashbuckler class because it's the most appealing, but few actually know how to use the class effectively.

Whether you're a Swashbuckler, a Privateer, a Musketeer, or what you won't survive in this game's meta without farmed gear. Swashbucklers have high enough dodge to avoid hits from their opponents and with the Assassin's Strike they have they'll deal plenty of damage.

In PvP you need to carry Valor's Fortress as well as Levithan's Call. Vicious Charge is also a big "Yes!" if you're a Swashbuckler.

The purpose of the Hurl Knives series isn't to deal a lot of damage. It's to prevent weakened targets from fleeing.

Black Fog definitely the best power for forcing your opponent into a defensive pivot in 1v1, it's outclassed by Suppression Fire in team play for obvious reasons. The hidden is meant to be used as soon as you use it, so don't use the power in the beginning of play and think you'll just move into range then attack. You use Black Fog and attack that same round. Your Swashbuckler may lose the bonus, but you still have 2 other ones.

Gambit of Steel is very strong if used properly. The game has shifted to a bigger use of melee companions and some people even run full melee. You'll dish out quick hits with First Strike, followed by Riposte and then the Gambit of Steel.

Swashbucklers are amazing offensive threats in PvP if you can use them to their best ability. I'm planning to post some power and skills for all of the classes sometime next week and I think I've made some powers you guys will really like.

I agree that no auction gear is certainly the only way to PVP, but I couldn't help but question one of your observations.

"The game has shifted to a bigger use of melee companions and some people even run full melee."

Unless we coexist in separate alternate dimensions, the way I see things no one serious in PVP runs 3 melee companions.

The most strongly perceived lineup is Bonnie, Zeena, X. X often being Nausica, Goronado, El Toro, Louie - Pepe, or one the Mooshu 5. Considering the fact that Bonnie, Zeena, and Nausica are three of, if not thee most capable companions in the game, this is not surprising. Most of the best melee companions have yet to exceed 4 epics.( hopefully we will make it there someday)

This is not based on my own strategy but on what I see in the Brawlin' Hall.

I'm just realizing how swashbucklers are the 2nd worst pvp class (no offence but i think buccaneers are 1st worst).We're meant to be the strongest class yet we only have 3 sneak attacks, and most of these aren't strong enough. We die easily when facing witchdoctors, musketeers or even privateers. I know we can cross the board in 2 turns but our companions wont follow.I have a few ideas on what we should get in the new 15 level (hopefully) update :Relentless (35% bonus attack when you hit)Relentless 2 (35% bonus attack when you hit, 3 times per round)Assassin's Snare (X2 damage poison, prevents powers, 3 rounds)Excavation (X4 damage plus 3 round bleeding)Enduring Shadowdance (+3 critical chance, 7 rounds)Assassin's speed (Dodge next 2 incoming powers -witchdoctor powers, musketeer powers, inferno round powers that cant be dodged etc-)So what do you think? Sure, it may seem a little op but we really need something good, we dont deal enough damage currently, expecially for the "Rouge class". I know Assassin's speed is kinda op, but it's what we need since we cant dodge powers. Tell me what you think or new powers please, :-)

Merciless Jean Percy, 65

'Meant to be the strongest'? 'even privateers'? All classes are equal, and you talk about Privateers as if they're the worst class.

I agree that no auction gear is certainly the only way to PVP, but I couldn't help but question one of your observations.

"The game has shifted to a bigger use of melee companions and some people even run full melee."

Unless we coexist in separate alternate dimensions, the way I see things no one serious in PVP runs 3 melee companions.

The most strongly perceived lineup is Bonnie, Zeena, X. X often being Nausica, Goronado, El Toro, Louie - Pepe, or one the Mooshu 5. Considering the fact that Bonnie, Zeena, and Nausica are three of, if not thee most capable companions in the game, this is not surprising. Most of the best melee companions have yet to exceed 4 epics.( hopefully we will make it there someday)

This is not based on my own strategy but on what I see in the Brawlin' Hall.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. There are serious, veteran PvP'ers that have begun running full melee. Nimble Nicholas Newton, without a doubt, the best Buccaneer player I've met runs full melee and that's won him 2 tournaments over on Central. Another friend of mine, Cunning Justin Silver, who was recently mentioned on this month's newsletter, interviewed by Duelist101, and a 5-time Central PvP winner also began to run full melee.

Melee companions have made their way back to PvP and despite the lack of Epic talents, they're still very viable in the game's meta. The game's meta seems to depend on what companions received promotions in the update.

At the game's launch, Swashbuckler companions were powerhouses in the meta.Once MB and AQ were released, Musketeer companions began to be used much more, but now melee companions both Buccaneers and Swashbucklers have made their way back into the meta, although the only Swashbuckler I really see is El Toro for obvious reasons.

The only companion classes that have gotten any spotlight from the powerhouse stage are Privateers and Witchdoctors. Perhaps that'll change next update.

Now on to swashbucklers. Swashbucklers are the damage class. Our hide spell is pointless in PvP. Only our companions can attack via the team hide, while we cant move until the next turn. Due to this we get "bombed" by or somehow get caught in the range of a or while hidden. We can rarely activate our 2x damage from our hiding spell. Its annoying because I cant do a devastating hit like I am supposed to. My 2000-2500 damage weakens to a 1000-1200 damage. I suggest we be immune to bombs and fires already next to us when hidden. However we wont be immune if we walk into a trap or fire at least three squares away.

Also our hurl knives spells that slows our enemy is kind of useless too. We can only activate our hurl knife when the enemy is like 3 squares away, so what is the point if they can still come close to me when they are slowed down. Sure my companions can run to the back but I am stuck defenseless near 3 or 4 tough enemies. I suggest the range of this spell be improved to around 10 blocks, and have 0.5x bleeding for 2 turns.

We should also be able to stack at least 2/3 of our poisons on an enemy. Maybe a consequence is that the time effect of the poison will be reduced by 1-2 turns.

Dodge rate should also be improved. Most musketeers have 140 accuracy and swashbucklers 140 dodge. However most of the time musketeers hit us 70% of the time.

Also we need to have some glitches fixed (Eg 3rd tier poison)

Overall I think all classes are equal against computer enemies, but PvP is another story all together. What may seem amazing in PvE maybe pointless in PvP.

-SDH Lv 65

referring to the dodge remark, there IS a formula for thislets use the example you gave us, accuracy 140 dodge 140

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. There are serious, veteran PvP'ers that have begun running full melee. Nimble Nicholas Newton, without a doubt, the best Buccaneer player I've met runs full melee and that's won him 2 tournaments over on Central. Another friend of mine, Cunning Justin Silver, who was recently mentioned on this month's newsletter, interviewed by Duelist101, and a 5-time Central PvP winner also began to run full melee.

Melee companions have made their way back to PvP and despite the lack of Epic talents, they're still very viable in the game's meta. The game's meta seems to depend on what companions received promotions in the update.

At the game's launch, Swashbuckler companions were powerhouses in the meta.Once MB and AQ were released, Musketeer companions began to be used much more, but now melee companions both Buccaneers and Swashbucklers have made their way back into the meta, although the only Swashbuckler I really see is El Toro for obvious reasons.

The only companion classes that have gotten any spotlight from the powerhouse stage are Privateers and Witchdoctors. Perhaps that'll change next update.