Hi kimco, hang in there, I just acquired the 'title' of "adept boomer" 'cause I posted over 10,000 times since I joined....GBers threw me a Congrats party yesterday (or was it the day before, I fergit). Welcome, and I hope to see you around a lot.....Love, Betty Lou

Kimco -- I'll only comment briefly at the moment (I'm on my laptop and it's running out of battery), but I'd like to discuss it even more later.

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The Tyriades seem to be in a battle amongst themselves as to Lea/112's role -- the combat Tyriades seem opposed to the Messenger Tyriades about this.

The only evidence of a Tyriad attack on the tanker is the corpse of a Tyriad (and marks on the walls) in the kitchen. I don't think the Tyriades attacked the tanker. I think that the chef used them (when the scientists were finished with them as research subjects) to put in the bouillibase.

I suspect the marks on the wall were the Tyriades trying to escape from the kitchen.

To Becky: No problem, take your time. And about the Tyriades attack...

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Remember the three men in protection suit in the inhalation chamber? One of them got a nasty wound at his side. it seems that it results from some big claw. And that bonus picture of this scene gives strongly such impression. That's why I got the impression of a Tyriades attack. On the other hand, it realy doesn't make sense that the RA troops killed their own agent, the chef. So I think he died in a Tyriades attack also.

I have to go back in to look at the wound you mention. Does Lea comment on it being made by a claw? If she says it was made by a claw, that would cinch the idea of a Tyriades attack, and some of my theories go out the window. What bonus picture -- I must have missed something! I don't remember Loyd mentioning the Tyriades attack when he talks to Lea -- I think he just talks about the RA. Though he isn't exactly in full possession of his senses by then.

As for killing their own men -- the RA organization is so decentralized and so ruthless that killing their own agent fits right in with the way they work, IMHO. Did you decode those RA files (the rather long ones) in (I think it was) Lincoln's sensitive files? The RA had penetrated the uppermost levels of government, and included some of Lincoln's own superiors. Lincoln had concluded that they were so powerful that EDEHN's only hope for survival was that they wouldn't be so ruthless as to take out their own -- which they finally did.

BTW -- wasn't there an RA logo on the helicopter that picks Lea up at the end of the game?

Hi Becky, the picture I mentioned is just under the "inhalation" cutscene in the bonus list.

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Yes, I decoded the RA files, and noticed the logo on the helicopter. It did give rise to another possibility. Do you think Lea is a member of RA? Such hypothesis did give her the immunity so that she could survived the RA attack. And other facts may support this hypothesis. In one of the files the security officer mentioned that Lea was considered for a promotion by the military superiors. In light of the fact that the RA had penetrated the high levels, this promotion could be an attempt to elevate a RA spy for their own convenience.

In another thought, could the RA logo just stand for "Rescue Agency"? I just can't make of some words in the "Outcome" cutscene-- "this is ??? rescue centre...."

Lea as an RA spy. That never occurred to me. Though I remember that she is rather high on the "suspect" list (one of them anyway).

Why would she then defuse the bomb? (Hmmm, of course she doesn't always defuse it, depending on the player.) I suppose she could go through the entire Tyriades world, including the "joining" that's only briefly alluded to, and then return if her job was just to observe and report back and not to actually sabotage anything.

Somehow I have a hard time thinking of her as an RA spy, though. She seems too kindhearted.

As for surviving the RA attack -- it's possible that the charm she wears around her neck was somehow protective. I think it's also possible that John Palmer (the one who wrote the letter at the beginning) figured out a way to jam the entrance door so that the RA couldn't get in.

I would definitely like some confirmation of either of these theories, though.

Obviously, at some point Lea volunteered to become a research subject and meant to go into the Tyriades world to contact 112. There is nothing in the files about this, though. Oddly, the emails seem to stop (as I recall) in mid-October, whereas the attack seems to have taken place in November. (Manchek's and Dimitrinko's codes last into November.) Why was everyone on the ship not emailing one another at the end? Was the email system down?

I guess the RA attack happened in mid-October. Manchek's codes is regular and deducible, just like Dimitrinko's agenda which could be made in advance. So they don't seem to contradict with the "mid-October" guess. And the mail system could have been down in the attack, so that we can't talk to Lea with it. There could be, however, some action going on in the tanker following the attack. The RA troops seemed to like lingering a bit, and took advantage of the installations of the base for their cause. Maybe this is the point at which Lea volunteered to receive the HO treatment as preparation for going down into to the Tyriades world. It's a RA act, thus there is nothing about it in the files.

As for the charm, I thought it was made by the Tyriades queen with help of 112, and handed to Lea by 112. But another theory seems more suitable now: the charm was created long time ago by the old Tyriades and human race, and keeped by the human race since then. It is the RA who holds the possession of the charm today, and also the only ones who hold the memory of the history of human and Tyriades. They are aware of the existence of the Prophecy; even they forgot it, the informations from the EDEHN base should have reminded them of it. At last they decided, maybe with some furious debate, considering there were some RA members looking forward to see the extinction of the Tyriades, to keep their end of this old bargain. They gave Lea the charm, and helped her fall into hibernation, so that she could help to fulfill the old prophecy 34 years later...

I always wondered why Lea never made any comment about the charm and her clothing when she waked up, acting just like there was nothing special about them. Maybe that's the answer. According this theory, the RA organization is not so ruthless, isn't it?

112's hands as he beats on the window of the inhalation tank because he's in pain -- and you can just see two shadowy shapes outside the tank, but I think it's clear those are the scientists trying to calm him down. I also took a look at the three corpses outside the inhalation chamber, and there's nothing there that would indicate a claw, at least not something that seemed obvious.

I think you are right that the Tyriades were informed that the RA might be planning an attack -- one of the scientists mentions that Lincoln (the security guy) went in to talk to the Tyriades. I suspect that his purpose was to warn the Tyriades about the RA, since Lincoln knew that none of his own superiors in the military would listen to him.

This might explain the sudden decision to get Lea ready to go into the Tyriades world, and might explain the messenger Tyriades figuring out a way to get the necklace/charm to Lea while she was preparing through inhalations to go down there. One of the stories called this charm "The Original Egg of the Convergence," and the info about it is that it both senses and emits hydroxide oxydrin, and that it was probably created by a Tyriades queen but designed by a human -- so maybe the charm WAS a collaboration between the current (soon to die) Tyriades queen and 112.

I'm wondering if Lincoln shut down the email system to keep the RA spy from communicating with the outside RA. I think the raid must have been November because the code that currently works for the bathysphere was a November code.

I transcribed what Lea says in the final cutscene. I listened to the transmission from the base several times -- I'm pretty sure it's a name starting with the letter "V," not "R," but it is very hard to hear. It could be that RA stands for something like Rescue Agency, and that it's sheer coincidence.

EDIT: I did wonder if perhaps RA might stand for something else in French (the language in which the game was created). I fed "air rescue" into the Babel Fish interpreter and it gave me "délivrance d'air" back (for what it's worth ).

Note: Lea is still wearing the charm/necklace in the final cut scene, but it's no longer glowing. Not sure if that's significant or not.

The text below is serious spoiler territory for anyone who hasn't complete the game! For the first part, Lea appears to be describing what happened at the Site of Convergence, and she seems to be addressing 112.

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I enter with Miilyan.A squad of Tyriades surround you.You approach me.We are alone at last for a few brief momentsHow I’ve longed to see you again!Ever since my awakening, and our first exchanges by two-way cameras, I’ve felt a presence.You seem so different.You’ve become one of them.I have no regrets.I had to see you one last time to conclude our story.You ask me to stay with you.I chose to go back to the human world.And so, I leave this island and the Tyriades civilization behind me.By my presence, the prophecy has been fulfilled.112’s arrival in the Tyriades world will continue to create deep unrest.I leave him now to encounter his fascinating destiny.

This has made me wonder if 112, over the intervening years, actually did "become one of them" -- fully mutate into a Tyriade.

As for the interesting theory that Lea is

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an RA spy. I just can't quite believe it of her. When she wakes up, she thinks that the person operating the camera is a crew member -- if she had gone under the hydroxide oxydren inhalation scheme specifically to spy out the Tyriades realm for the RA, I think her first thought would have been that the person operating the camera would be from the RA, not a crew member. Also, if the RA wanted to send her into the Tyriades realm as a spy, why would they leave her there, unattended, for 34 years?

In fact, under any scenario -- for instance, that Lea was preparing to meet 112 and that he had sent her the charm -- it doesn't make sense that she just lies there for so long. Since it was 112 behind the cameras -- why did he wait several decades before contacting her?

EDIT: Aha! I just found the concept art in the Bonus area. Yes, I see the slash in the haz mat suit in the concept art, but it wasn't in the game (that I could see -- though the camera may not have been angled right for showing it). Nice artwork -- so much detail in this game.

Hi Becky, it seems we just neglect the role of 112 in all these things. And maybe there does exist a theory

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which could explains most things without considering Lea a RA spy, even though the helicopter did belong to the RA.

First I'd like to talk about the RA's attitude toward the Tyriade's prophecy. I thought that the RA would like to help fulfill the prophecy. And now I believe that they were expecting the prophecy coming true as much as the Tyriades were. The RA never seeked the extinction of the Tyriades. They just wanted to hide up everything about the Tyriades. I'd like to assume that the RA was trying to cover the Tyriades world up until such a day as there is something could ensure the harmony between the two races. And here comes the prophecy which foresees the birth of the third race which is considered "the guarantee of peace and balance". It's their duty, or even fate, for the RA to do everything they could to make the old prophecy coming true. The prophecy is more like a pledge that holds influence over both races, just as the charm resulted from the collaboration between two races.

The prophecy involves a man from human world, a Tyriades queen, and the Site of Convergence which needs to be unlocked by the charm of "The Original Egg of the Convergence". So the charm is sort of a magic key. It loses its power when it serves its purpose. I guess that's why it's no longer glowing in the final cutscene. As for the origin of the charm, I'd like to believe it was created in remote antiquity (of course, in the way mentioned in the file) together with the Site of Convergence. The site was in the Tyriade's world while the charm was taken to the human world. And they would come together once more when time is right. That sounds more like a prophecy to me, hence I gave up the thought of "the queen and 112 made it together."

Now we can talk about the role of 112. In fact he was the one who was supposed to bring the charm to the Tyriade world, and was the rep of the RA, or rather of the human race, to fulfill the prophecy. He knew the significance of his duty for the Tyriade race, and knew that he would be admitted by the Tyriades eventually. That's why he told Lea in the "bleachery" that he is not like the others, he is different.

The unexpected encounter with kindhearted Lea Nichols was, however, not in his plan. And with so much happened between them, 112 decided to give the charm to Lea before he left for the underworld. There must had been some talking between them, like "we'll meet again... you can give it back to me by then...." And this was exactly the appointment Lea mentioned in the game after her HO inhalation - "... Not a minute to lose... I must honor the appointment I've made." And 112 got his reason to do that. He knew that the RA would attack the base before long, and Lea has slim chances of surviving it. He left the charm to Lea as some protective measure for her. The RA troops would never hurt anyone wearing this charm. And that was how Lea survived the RA attack eventually. But another problem occured. There's got to be someone bring the charm to the Tyriade world. It seemed that the RA left the job to Lea, in hoping that the long hibernation could help her adapt the rigorous environment of the underworld.

And after 34 years of sleeping, Lea waked up in the very year in which the Tyriade's "Ultimate Renewal" ceremony took place. The game began at this point. 112 (player) led Lea into the Tyriade world to meet him, and opened the Site of Convergence with the charm so that the prophecy could be finally fulfilled. At the same time, Lea realized that 112 was now more of a Tyriade than of a human, and that his destiny twined with the destiny of Tyriades from the beginning. She chose to return to the human world. And it was the Tyriades or 112 who managed to call the RA helicopter for Lea. That's how they "coordinated Lea's return to the human world" as mentioned in the final cutscene. Yes, 112 was a member of RA, and undoubtedly the most important one.

If the RA WANTS the Tryiades and humans to converge, why do they kill everybody on the ship and at the Advanced Base? What does that accomplish for them?

Thinking more about 112 --

I've changed my mind about 112 actually coming to the research ship to operate the cameras there. I think the first cutscene we see is 112 establishing a telepathic link to Lea as she starts to wake up (or perhaps even using the telepathic link to wake her up). 112's telepathic abilities are mentioned a couple of times, and there's some indication that HO actually increases a person's telepathic ability (represented by the cell-like substances we sometimes see at the beginning and end of the cutscenes).

I think the cutscenes are shared telepathic memories or experiences -- many of them occur from 112's perspective, and a few of them are from Lea's perspective. I think the shower scene where you suddenly see the image of a Tyriade is 112 accidentally letting a glimpse of what he's become to filter into the telepathic experience.

I could be completely wrong about this, but I think 112 is, for much of the game, in the training portion of the advanced base, right next to the Tyriades Cathedral. And when the robots are threatening to kill Lea in the advanced base, I think it might actually be 112 who comes through the Tyriades door, attacks the robot, and then leaves.

The other thing I've been thinking about is -- why are they training volunteers to breathe HO and then go into the Tyriades realm to

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communicate using the language packs? Project EDEHN has already communicated with the Messenger Tyriades and gone on to construct pathways through the Tyriades realm, plus doors and computers have been installed in the Tyriades realm, and they've even built that large facility that allows humans to "surf" the Abyss.

Since they've been able to accomplish all this (I'm assuming while wearing some sort of "space suit,") why send clueless volunteers into the Tyriades realm to try to live there for a couple of weeks? Especially since none of these volunteers (until 112) ever come back in decent shape (until 112 they've been so ill or insane afterwards that they die or kill themselves).

Did the Tyriades specifically request that EDHEN send human volunteers to try to adapt? Were the Tyriades, in essence, looking for someone like 112 who would be a bridge from the very beginning of their encounters?

The RA attacked the base in 1970, 34 years before the prophecy is fulfilled. Maybe the RA didn't want to risk the exposure of the Tyriades world until the last day. And if the prophecy is meant for creation of a new species, it could take hundreds of years before the prophecy can be completely fulfilled. The "convergence" seem more like a improvement of species to me. It takes place in the Tyriade world only, and will make future Tyriades more human. Maybe that's the true reason why the RA wants the prophecy come true. And it doesn't seem to be against their mission of hiding the existence of the Tyriades.

I totally agree with you about the telepathic memories or experiences. I note that the ship in the "Beach" cutscene is not the EDEHN base one, and it seems a different island. I wonder whether it means that it's 112's imagination, or just his dream.

It's interestering that you think 112 is the one standing by the Tyriades door. Well, he should have settled all robots for Lea.

As for the volunteers, they could be sent in to the Tyriades world as scouts, or they are just subjects to show how human body will react to the Tyriades environment. EDEHN has some researchers stationed in the Tyriades realm (e.g. Jack Lowel). They seem to work in some close room, and they could receive pictures of the camera carried by the volunteers. So the volunteers could also serve as information collector. And I did get the impression that the military high level is expecting something special from the volunteers' adventure. EDEHN members always refer to these adventure as failed mission. what on earth is successful mission supposed to be? What's the true purpose of the EDEHN project? What's that tree-like thing in tank CT08 for?

comes through the Tyriades door. Since the security robots are still there, I think it's safe to assume that the Tyriades don't routinely come through there. So the fact that one does come through must have something to do with Lea being there.

If the Tyriade that does come through is 112 (or sent by 112) it's strange that he doesn't disable all the robots, I agree. If the Tyriade that comes through the door is a scout who answers to the Generals, it's odd that he doesn't disable all the robots and then either try to communicate with Lea or take her into custody.

I still don't have a satisfactory explanation as to why any Tyriade would come through the door, disable only the robot that's threatening Lea at the moment, and then disappear -- except that by doing so he gives us the fun of playing around with the leftover robots.

As for sending the volunteers out,

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part of the reason appears to be to see if their adjustment to the HO and the Tyriades realm will create a medical breakthrough, using the healing and life-preserving qualities of HO. The scientists/researchers say they are interested in this, but then they have their heads in the sand as to the tumors that the advance base personnel are experiencing, as well as genetic mutations they are seeing in local plants and animals, and the headaches and mental problems that researchers experience when they spend time near the Tyriades world (never mind actually IN the Tyriades world).

I think a "successful" mission for a volunteer would be to spend a couple of weeks in the Tyriades world and then come back to the base in the kind of condition where the volunteer could make a report that would help later volunteers to adjust more readily. So far, 112 is the only one who could have done this, but instead he met with the Tyriades queen and appears to have thrown in his lot with the Tyriades, rather than reporting back to the scientists at EDEHN. At least, that was the apparent situation before the email system went down, and then the RA attack took place.

The tree-like thing in the tank I assumed had something to do with how the Tyriade castes reproduce themselves. It looks like a kind of giant egg tree. ???

This is a game I have not played simply because I could never even get the demo to work for me. I liked the story idea, but knew when it came out I would keep right on walking by that one and Penumbra (sort of the same reason), though that demo did work, my PC HATED the experience.