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So information – facts, rumorus, whispers, call them what you like – is starting to filter thrugh and it seems pretty clear that Frans Steyn is pissed off with SARU over one major reason. Money. Filthy lucre. His daily crust.

All of this talk about his knee is a convenient sideshow. Yes, Frans has a chronic condition that needs to be managed but as a senior player who delivers on the field, he has enough capital banked with the majority of coaches to allow him the necessary training ground leeway to manage that problem. I, for one, don’t buy the argument that a test or two against Wales would be likely to tip his knee condition over the edge.

No, the issue here appears to be a “promise” made to Steyn when he opted to return to South Africa from France – one that led him to believe that SARU (together with the Sharks) would do as much as they could to ensure parity with his massive French earnings. Whatever that commitment was, it hasn’t materialised leaving Steyn apparently playing for roughly half of what he was earning in France.

Here’s a news flash for you – employees don’t appreciate pay cuts and they don’t appreciate being let down when they feel they’ve reached a particular agreement about pay. Pride in the jersey and all that sentiment went out the window when you turned rugby into a professional game and started forcing young men to commit themselves to a 10-year career in which they simply have to set themselves up for life.

The question, though, that really begs answering is this: why did Frans have to return at all? I need both hands and at least one foot to count all the players to whom Heyneke Meyer hands out test caps without any requirement that they play locally – or in fact even be in any sort of form for their foreign clubs. Johan Goosen, a case in point, is leaving these shores for the very French club that Frans Steyn used to play for. I’ve got a few quid here saying that he’ll continue to be picked for the Boks while playing for Racing Metro – an offer or opportunity that was denied Frans Steyn.

It’s time to pick a position and stick to it. Either pick Boks from wherever they happen to play and accept the consequences of that – or impose a blanket ban on non-SA-based players being picked for tests. The way things work at the moment leaves far too much scope for unhappiness, double standards and MASSIVE disparity in what players in the same team put into their pockets at the end of the month.

@PTAShark (Comment 3) : thats what ive been saying since day 1. This monkey will do so much damage to the game in SA that a world cup trophy wont even make up for it. The next coach is already screwed, because regardless of his stance on overseas players, there wont be locals left to pick!!

Comment 6, posted at 12.06.14 07:43:12 by West Indies Cricket Board

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Rob i think we are about halfway to the truth and these things are always more complicated than they appear and doubt we will ever know the full story. My educated guess is that yes money is a big part of it and so is his knee. Like you said players only have a limited amount of time to earn enough to sustain them in later life. And with Steyn’s injury that time has now decreased…i cannot see him playing beyond 3-5yrs max. So this injury together with SARU’s failure to live up to agreed compensation has made Steyn think whether playing for his country is the best for his financial future. People can say pride etc as much they like…but would you take a pay cut at your job and just work for pride? Injury or not any team be it the Boks, Sharks, Racing, his Jap side whatever is not as strong when Steyn isnt playing…fact!

Comment 7, posted at 12.06.14 07:47:05 by SheldonK

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And here I thought Frans returned home, because he wanted to…and not because he thought he would make the same amount of money as he did in France. Naively I thought he made his money and can now focus on just playing rugby for his beloved sharks and the boks without worrying about a feeble thing such as a pay check. I believed he was living the dream, focusing on his passion, trying to be the best rugby player he can be. It leaves a bitter taste in the mouth.

Comment 8, posted at 12.06.14 07:52:04 by bokbok

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Lot of blame directed at HM… He isn’t the issue here, it seems. It is the pencil head administrators getting in over their heads and as a result the players and fans suffer..

why Frans had to come back from France I don’t know, maybe because he weighed as much as big Willem Alberts the last time he came back, either way, he is one of the most talented players we have and if promises are made they need to be kept, lest we lose him for good..

Comment 9, posted at 12.06.14 07:52:51 by The Quirk

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@bokbok (Comment 8) : Look these guys are professionals who make a living from playing rugby. I use that fact in how I view them – so don’t put them on a pedestal nor castigate them when they run after the cash. They are just human after all.

Comment 10, posted at 12.06.14 07:55:48 by Bokhoring

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Frans Steyns dad saying it was not only a money issue….this opens Pandoras Box again. Jake saying perhaps Frans felt under valued in Bok set up….this is the problem with half truths….it allows for huge speculation and gossip. Someone needs to come clean.

Comment 11, posted at 12.06.14 08:02:56 by grant10

@Sagroup (Comment 5) :
Exactly. Seems every stop is being pulled in the desire to allow Meyer to shine – irrespective of long teem consequence.

Selecting overseas Boks is terrible for the future of SA rugby. The Frans situation is merely a symptom of a larger malaise.

Comment 12, posted at 12.06.14 08:03:02 by Big Fish

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I don’t hold much favour to either side in this dispute. SARU seems to have gone back on a promise made, and Frans and his agent should firstly have gotten that in writing, and secondly surely this issue must have been around since Frans got offered a new Bok contract. Why wait until the middle of the Bok test period to bring this to a head?

Comment 13, posted at 12.06.14 08:03:53 by Bokhoring

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@Big Fish (Comment 12) : I don’t know how SARU plans to fill 6 competitive super rugby squads from 2016. They have removed the only bargaining chip we have to keep players in SA by allowing this free for all selection of overseas based players.

Comment 14, posted at 12.06.14 08:05:37 by Bokhoring

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I saw this crap coming a mile away when HM started picking all these foreign based players. Our local rugby is gonna get even thinner pretty soon. Meyer is doing more harm then good this crap is gonna ruin us

Comment 15, posted at 12.06.14 08:19:09 by Stiko85

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I just read another report which states that the issue is actually about image rights. It seems Frans’s image rights belong to a third party and SARU was supposed to pay a license to this party when using his image rights – which they did not.

Comment 17, posted at 12.06.14 08:24:21 by Bokhoring

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I read somewhere that Steyn’s Bok contract has been torn up. Not sure how true this is.

Comment 18, posted at 12.06.14 08:29:26 by Uli Boelie

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Is it to early to say “we told you so”? Every time anyone brings up the – don’t pick overseas players subject, there’s always a bunch saying, “it’s the professional era”.

If you can’t keep you’re players in the country with a Bok contract, what will keep any of them here. Why would any of them play for Rands when they can play for Euro’s or Pounds?

As soon as they make name for themselves here, they will pick up big overseas contracts (Goosen), knowing that it won’t put their place in the Bok team at risk. Jan Serfontein, Eben Etzebeth, Pieter Steph du Toit… how much do you think these players can earn playing overseas? They will all leave and soon.

Although, it seems deals are made with some players.

I remember Jean de Villiers was also on his way just after the world cup, but had to come back, because he still wanted to play for SA. What? Why would he need to come back? I suppose, since Heyneke valued him as a player and a leader, he was offered a lucrative deal that was good enough to keep Jean playing in SA.

I’ve always said, if your argument is that it is the “professional” era, then South African rugby as a whole should be seen as a business. Not just bok rugby. SA rugby will not profit if they don’t keep as much players as possible playing in SA.

Comment 19, posted at 12.06.14 08:32:56 by Letgo

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@Letgo (Comment 19) : I honestly think only a few of the overseas players really add value, i.e. Bakkies (in the absence of Eben), FdP and perhaps Habana. For the rest in that squad we have able locally based players that can match what those guys can do.

Comment 20, posted at 12.06.14 08:39:23 by Bokhoring

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@Bokhoring (Comment 20) : they do, however, they are also “blocking” our youngster to come into the system and get valued experience. This is why so many youngster are also leaving the shores without even getting a Bok call up, as there are just no opportunities available to them. The fact is, HM has started a new culture by letting all his cronies play in France etc. earn big $, and still play for the boks.

Comment 21, posted at 12.06.14 08:51:51 by Uli Boelie

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We had this debate a year ago when HM started picking more oversees based players then any other national coach has done before him and we all feared that a great exodus is coming if this trend continues…. By the time HM’s contract ends with the boks there won’t be any boks playing for sa who is actually playing in SA.

Comment 22, posted at 12.06.14 08:52:33 by Stiko85

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@Stiko85 (Comment 22) : I agree, wont it make more sence for us to join the European Cup? Would we not be able to draw more cash into our systems? therefore keep our best players ashore?

Comment 23, posted at 12.06.14 08:55:53 by Uli Boelie

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If the SARU make promises then they should be upheld, especially when career choses are on the line…..as for choosing Bok players who play overseas, they should play in SA only just like New Zealand and Australia. Get rid of the OAP’s if you want a chance at the 2015 World Cup and get in the GOOD Youngsters that are dedicated to SA rugby clubs…….just sayin’

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Steyn has proven his commitment. Why can they not compensate him accordingly? Fat Cats in SARU should be held accountable. Secondly HM just regards him as a temp in the nr12 jersey (anyone in fact) until JdV is back. So why risk the rest of your career? I say good on you Frans. HM will use players and burn them up just as he and his successive coaching staff have done at the Bulls. This is why Bulls lost so many good players. These SARU fatcats need a restructure.

Comment 26, posted at 12.06.14 09:01:12 by coolfusion

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@The Quirk (Comment 9) : I agree that it certainly does lie with the pencil neck administrators but it was HM who told Steyn that he needs to play in SA to be picked and then the self same HM who then picks his Bulletjie buddies playing overseas, so the buck certainly does start and end with him.

@JarsonX (Comment 2) : Almost have to agree with you there. Maybe if Wales fold his buddy Guthro in half he might see the idiocy of his ways, but I doubt it.

Comment 27, posted at 12.06.14 09:08:51 by Butchie34

Look, guys, at the end of the day these guys need to make a living as well. Yes, some earn huge lumps of cash playing for the overseas clubs but keep in mind that it is only for a relatively short period of time. So they cash in while they can. If this is indeed true, and SARU broke promises they made to him, then they have surely opened a can of worms here. How long before other players follow suit?

Comment 28, posted at 12.06.14 09:17:59 by Another Nick

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I’d like to ask every SA citisen living overseas, whether they would be willing to come back to SA and earn half the money they’re currently earning.

Even worse, how happy would they be to come back under the ruse of earning the exact same amount as they are currently earning, just to get here, and see your pay-check reflecting something wholly different.

Comment 29, posted at 12.06.14 10:08:45 by FireTheLooser

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@PTAShark(comment3)Nice to see the mine workers are not alone its unfortunate because I think HM will get his second term in office,he is def the primary reason why Bok players leave these shores as he is big on players that are used to those conditions

Comment 30, posted at 12.06.14 10:10:42 by Chippa

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@Chippa (Comment 30) : Not only Bok players leaving, but talented youngsters because they’re not getting a fair shot at top honors.

Comment 31, posted at 12.06.14 10:18:39 by FireTheLooser

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I don’t mind if players decide to play overseas, I mind when Bok coaches select team in the Bok team while they are playing overseas.

Comment 32, posted at 12.06.14 10:19:03 by Letgo

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If it was up to me, if you wane play for SA you play in SA, SARU also needs to come to the party and contract the players they want to play for Boks.

it use to be, a player would leave at the end of his career to make a bit of money, now they leaving before their senior career starts and they play more games for foreign clubs then local.

Comment 33, posted at 12.06.14 10:31:03 by pierre_mackie

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HM is destoying rugby in SA. Our CC will be so watered down that it will be hardly worth wathing and all our teams will become the whipping boy of Super Rugby because
1. There is no motivation for the players to stay in SA if HM picks players playing in Europe ect.
2. HM picks Europeen based players that are worse than those playing in SA (Guthro Steenkamp, Francois Louw, Morne Steyn, Zane Kithener ect)and then what motivates the players to stay?

Comment 34, posted at 12.06.14 10:32:23 by Mutley

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The great white hunter of the 1800′s.
He comes to africa and hunts big game, gives the meat to the locals and returns home like a conquering hero with bags full of trophies, but leaves nothing for the next guy

Comment 35, posted at 12.06.14 10:43:29 by West Indies Cricket Board

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Some say he has no choice, but the world cup has only EVER been won by countries who ban picking of overseas players!

Comment 36, posted at 12.06.14 10:48:28 by West Indies Cricket Board

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Sorry, coming into this discussion thread late, but completely agree with Rob in his article: a position on this needs to be made by SARU -either all OBP are available for selection for Boks, or none – everyone should know where they stand and have the same terms.

Personally, I also prefer the latter, where only locally based players are picked. This will encourage those players for whom playing for the Boks is important, to stay. Thereby improving the quality of our S15 and CC sides. It will also allow for younger players to come through as older players go overseas to finish off their careers and make some dosh>

Comment 37, posted at 12.06.14 10:50:37 by stevovo

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I’ll just echo what a few other have pointed out, if it’s indeed a pay issue the beef is with SARU. Meyer is the Bok coach not a SARU administrator or bean counter.

I agree that whatever the current “foreign policy”, it needs to be handled more transparently for the sake of player and public goodwill.

Comment 38, posted at 12.06.14 12:12:49 by vanmartin

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@stevovo (Comment 37) : Meyer can do what he like it seems as if his Bulls credentials allows him to deviate from any previous selection policies.

Comment 39, posted at 12.06.14 16:18:46 by JD

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@stevovo (Comment 37) : completely agreeing with me is the right way to live your life.

Just saying

Comment 40, posted at 12.06.14 17:14:34 by robdylan

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Jawohl, mein Führer.

Comment 41, posted at 12.06.14 17:22:25 by Salmonoid the Subtle

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I would like to add this, I think Frans got a big pear of brass ones, not just the brass coated ones,He in my opninion deserves a standing ovation, to take a stand against SARU and all their lies. My opinion says that they are doing all kinds of things under the table, and can not own up to their promises, and change the rules to suit them and what they want to do, If I may raise this also, who thinks that the 2 years Matfield was out, was not a type of sabatical, that SARU wanted to save him for this coming world cup, knowing that he would return and was then forced back into the Bulss team and into the Boks, To Frans, Respect for standing up

Comment 42, posted at 12.06.14 17:32:01 by Henkb

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Jissus there are a lot of assumptions flying around here.

Comment 43, posted at 12.06.14 17:56:53 by Morné

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In fairness, the main-stream media (who has the resources and contacts) are the prime culprits creating these conspiracy theories.

But then again they have to sell content so nothing new there.

I fully understand that the lack of information creates a platform for making assumptions, but SARU categorically stated: “Frans is now out of the squad and team management will respect his wish for privacy by not speculating on his decision or his likely return.”

Issues need to get sorted out, that much is clear – at least allow the parties to do this.

In SA Rugby this of course is very unlikely.

It is an unfortunate situation, with unfortunate timing.

Shit happens I guess.

Comment 52, posted at 12.06.14 19:10:10 by Morné

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Statement from SARU
“Jurie Roux, CEO of the South African Rugby Union, said: “In light of media coverage following Frans’ request to leave the Springbok squad, we have been placed in a very difficult position.

“We have an agreement with players in respect of the rights of both employer and employee not to publicly discuss any contractual situation and I will not breach that. However, allegations have been made that affect the reputation of the South African Rugby Union and Frans Steyn as an employee and person and they cannot go unchallenged.

“It is alleged that SARU breached a promise to Frans in terms of his contract. I can confirm that there was a dispute over mechanisms by which one element of Frans’ Springbok remuneration was to be paid. That issue was addressed. Some minor details remain to be sorted out, but they are not of such a scale as to be a cause for a major upheaval.

“Out of respect for Frans’ wishes, whatever other considerations may have been on his mind are not for me to discuss.

“I look forward to his return to playing in the near future in Vodacom Super Rugby as he has been a good servant to the Springboks and his franchise” courtesy of Rugby15

Comment 57, posted at 12.06.14 22:17:02 by Salmonoid the Subtle

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Well heres the admission, SARU still have not sorted out Steyns contract after how long.

I like this bit “but they are not of such a scale as to be a cause for a major upheaval”, seriously chap, it has caused a major upheavel, unless you think that one of your players turning their back on the Bok team is not major. Very subjective viewpoint that.

Comment 58, posted at 12.06.14 22:26:26 by Salmonoid the Subtle

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I saw SA Rugby mag quoted Steyn’s father and News24 quoting Jake White and numerous reports on him leaving the Bok camp in a huff.

Haven’t seen any denials yet.

Comment 59, posted at 12.06.14 22:31:29 by fyndraai

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Rob,

The question, though, that really begs answering is this: Did you hear from a reliable source that Frans was told he had to return, or did you just made it up?

Comment 60, posted at 12.06.14 22:40:35 by fyndraai

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I count 26 test matches Frans Steyn played in from 2009 on wards. I think you’d be hard pressed to find any other Bok that had earned more caps whilst NOT playing in South Africa.

If there was any double standard, he was the beneficiary.

Comment 61, posted at 12.06.14 22:52:42 by fyndraai

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@fyndraai (Comment 61) : I think Rob’s point in the article is they essentially told Frans that if he would like to continue to play for the Boks, he would have to return to SA. Then HM proceeded to select players that were not playing in SA. If SARU did in fact tell Frans he had to return to SA to continue playing for the Boks and then selected other players playing overseas without requiring them to come home to SA, there is indeed a double standard.

Comment 62, posted at 12.06.14 23:02:30 by Dancing Bear

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@fyndraai (Comment 61) : I agree with you he was selected while playing in France, however if they then told him he had to come home to continue to be selected…….double standard.

Comment 63, posted at 12.06.14 23:03:49 by Dancing Bear

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@fyndraai (Comment 59) : what exactly needs to be denied? Yes he did leave the Bok camp. The rumours was not started by Sharksworld, JW or “the Steyn camp” it was started by the news papers, all JW a d the others did was respond to questions and speculations. To be fair to Steyn he has stayed away from the media just as he requested. To be fair it seems to me that Jurie Roux confirmed wwhat was said in this article and that is that there’s a pay dispute.

Comment 64, posted at 12.06.14 23:04:42 by JD

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One point I have to make, while I agree this is not the right way to run an international Rugby program, this supporting the Boks opposition is just not on. Sorry folks, I am not happy with the way HM is doing things, I am not happy with SARU, but I will always support the Boks over any other team. Remember this, the players have no part in this silliness, they deserve your support. I can understand choosing not to watch the match, but to suport Wales for a win over the Boks is simply not on. What bothers me most is that some of those choosing to support Wales were very upset about those South Africans (in the Cape) who chose to support the ABs over SA. Well guess what, you are doing the same thing and with less reason!

Comment 65, posted at 12.06.14 23:08:08 by Dancing Bear

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@fyndraai (Comment 61) : ja boet we all know Rob as a guy who just makes up any shit he wants to and the plasters it all over the site…. he most don’t have any real info on Sharks rugby. Get real man this is not a news paper that publish any shit to get sales, this is a site with integrity that will only publish such statements if is true and confirmed so!!!!!!!

Comment 66, posted at 12.06.14 23:12:55 by JD

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@Dancing Bear (Comment 65) : ja I don’t like HM and will maybe skip the match but I still hope the Bokke win.

Comment 67, posted at 12.06.14 23:16:32 by JD

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Percy Montgomery and Jaco v d Westhuizen were selected for the Boks whilst playing club rugby outside of SA. Both were encouraged/pressured to return.

Then John Smit and Matfield and Jean de Villiers were pressured/encouraged to return to SA.

Then came Francois Steyn, part of the Bok squad for 4 years, without a requirement that he returns. It seems he was the precedent for the system that is so bemoaned now.

Double standard indeed.

Comment 68, posted at 12.06.14 23:34:40 by fyndraai

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@fyndraai (Comment 68) : The demand for Frans to return came well after Smit and Matfield. There is no point in comparing Steyn to those two, rather compare Steyn to Flo. Seriously, Marcel has a superb season at open side flank in SA, and Flo is selected ahead of him. Compare Frans to Ruan, Flo, FdP, Bakkies, Gurthro……and on and on.

Comment 69, posted at 12.06.14 23:42:50 by Dancing Bear

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@Dancing Bear (Comment 69) : boet I’m sure this guy is trolling for comments. No matter what anyone says he’s living in his own little world, so I think I will be ignoring him!! Maybe if we ignore him long enough he’ll go away!!!!

Comment 70, posted at 13.06.14 00:00:23 by JD

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I have to agree with dancing bear on the matter of supporting the opposition over the boks coz of meyer. Its not on hey. I’m not very keen on the boks during this HM era and I’d rather get more excited bout the sharkies but I’m never going to back the opposition over my own country, weather it be bafana, proteas or springboks, proudly SA guys.

Comment 71, posted at 13.06.14 00:29:52 by Stiko85

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I have to agree with dancing bear on the matter of supporting the opposition over the boks coz of meyer. Its not on hey. I’m not very keen on the boks during this HM era and I’d rather get more excited bout the sharkies but I’m never going to back the opposition over my own country, weather it be bafana, proteas or springboks, proudly SA guys. After all, our beloved sharks are also running out in that green and gold hey. I just hope none of them get injured ay. I’d much rather have had them sit out these crap matches but nou ya. Its the highest level and they all dream to play there (well minus frans now of course).

Comment 72, posted at 13.06.14 00:31:58 by Stiko85

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@morne, are you working for SARU? I’m sorry I missed that part I guess… I hope we get to hear from frans himself pretty soon, I guess he’s the only one who can really bring clarity on this issue.

Comment 73, posted at 13.06.14 00:35:55 by Stiko85

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@JD (Comment 70) : ahhhh fyndraai is alright, he’s been around a long time, sure he likes to stir a bit, but he keeps it very civil. Don’t mind debating him from time to time.

Comment 74, posted at 13.06.14 01:44:02 by Dancing Bear

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Flo only came into the team after Coetzee was injured. You could compare him to Steyn if he is still OS and in the Bok team, 2 or 3 years from now.

The pattern I see is that they only negotiate a return for players whom are highly valued and considered part of the leadership.
Mongomery, Smit, Matfield, de Villiers and Steyn.
I’d wager all of them gave up some income to come back. If it did not work out for Steyn as well as he’d like he may always leave again. The manner and the timing of his walkout was just very immature. None of us would excuse such behavior at the places we work.

Comment 75, posted at 13.06.14 04:38:08 by fyndraai

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I think before we bash Steyn and Hyneke Meyer we need to realise that this seems to be a contractual issue with Steyn and SARU. And lets not jump on the he must play for pride nonesense. This is a contract so if SARU is not fulfilling its part and Steyn carried on playing then he would be implicitedly agreeing to the terms of the contract so would have no bargaining power with SARU. Every guy that wears the gold plays with pride and plays his heart out. But yes its also these guys livelyhood so before we go bashing the players and coach lets understand the situation first and if anyone needs to be blamed its the SARU officials

Comment 76, posted at 13.06.14 07:58:26 by SheldonK

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@Dancing Bear (Comment 65) : Same here, even though I dislike Heyneke and really loathe some of the players in the team, I will still support the Boks come saterday. Any guy that says he will support the opposition is no better than a Cape-Crusader.

Comment 77, posted at 13.06.14 08:38:28 by KingRiaan

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I have to say I have enjoyed the World XV match. It was not vintage rugby, but at least the Boks showed some attacking intent at times and scored some really good tries. The players did not simply just hoof every ball down field and hope for the best.

I am actually looking forward to Saturday’s game – with only a bit of a worry that Guthro will struggle in the scrums against Adam Jones.

Comment 78, posted at 13.06.14 08:45:32 by Bokhoring

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On some points raised here.

The picking of overseas players and the process or protocols have been in place since Peter de Villiers became coach. The same process and protocols are still in place today for Heyneke.

On the SARU statement, the financial dispute ran by newspapers has been sorted out, as the release states quite clearly. Again, the other issues are being kept out of the public forum as a matter of professionalism (employer/employee contract issues) and on request of the player himself.

It is all really simple folks.

Comment 79, posted at 13.06.14 09:44:52 by Morné

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@Morné (Comment 79) : However Peter did not rely as heavily as Heyneke on overseas players:

In the 2011 WC squad we had three:
Pienaar (Ulster), Louw (Bath) and Steyn (Racing Metro)

This cannot be good for local rugby – as SA is now losing even promising young players like Goosen (according to reports HM rates him as his backup Bok flyhalf). I am sure he will be available for the Boks, but in the mean time the Cheetahs suffer.

How long before guys like Wille le Roux, Etzebeth, etc. take up a lucrative offers overseas knowing they will still be selected for the Boks.

Comment 80, posted at 13.06.14 10:05:32 by Bokhoring

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You cannot give a debut cap for an OSB player
You cannot make an OSB player captain
If it is a 50/50 call, local player gets picked

Now of course how a player is rated is subjective (by us or Meyer) but the team still needs to be signed off and approved by the president and CEO where each OSB player’s selection is motivated by the coach. If we want to judge Meyer on his subjectivity then we have to look at his record and that is currently a fraxion of a percentage point under Mallet, our most successful coach in the pro era.

Then also consider that your top Boks earn double what they do overseas than in South Africa. There is no way on God’s green earth you will, or can stop them from pursuing overseas deals if we only consider the money issue.

Apart from the money issue is the other, major reason, players look to move overseas – and that is extending their careers. In SA you are damn lucky if you get a month away from rugby to re-charge, in Europe and Japan you get up to 3 while playing almost 30% less games.

We look to NZ and Australia and mention their policy and believe me that bubble is about to burst. Just this week the ARU asked the IRB for help to keep Folau in Australia – of course they refused.

Hansen has gone off in a tangent last month because AB’s are moving overseas more and more each year, trying to play the emotional angle labelling them as unpatriotic and gutless not wanting to stay and fight for the black jersey. One writer in NZ called his utterances hypocritical to the highest order.

South Africa must simply ensure we produce players at amateur level to continue to feed the pipeline and ensure our local competition structures remain sound, and that is the focus.

The wider Bok group identified for 2014 (not just the squad you see now) which is a tad over 50 has around 44 players who are locally based. Currently we have about a 80/20 split. Of the locally based players close to 60% are products of SA Rugby competitions where they were identified (Varsity Cup, Vodacom Cup, Currie Cup, Super Rugby) – 40% were brought through high performance squads like SA schools, SA U20 etc.

It shows you a couple of things. Number 1 our competitions locally still play a moer of an important role in producing Springboks. By far the majority of players identified in the Bok group are locally based so the focus is very much there to continue to give players motivation to stay.

Once a player becomes a Springbok he will always be on the radar for overseas clubs – shit we are #2 in the world in rugby for a good reason, we have awesome players.

Our policy in my opinion works, and works very well.

We will, probably in another year’s time see this policy and our selection, and player retention structures balance out and remain constant.

Comment 81, posted at 13.06.14 10:33:57 by Morné

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Sorry,joining late. It is cold in Gauteng so takes time to warm up to things.I have to agree with Rob on a few things. Sport has become a business & if you renege on a contract (verbal or written),that is a no-no. Frans (and a number of others) must have been promised a pretty penny to return from overseas where the mighty Euro reigns.What hold do the likes of FdP,Flo,Ruan,Bakkies,Zane,Guthro & co have on HM & SARU?How can they have a contract with SARU when not contracted or playing for a SA franchise?Jacque Fourie said he wouldn’t play for Boks again but HM keeps chasing him.Habana,Kirschner,MS,Guthro even Ruan & FdP don’t need to be in the boks & neither does Flo. We have more than enough businessman (Sorry,sportsman)in SA to take those places. Keeping the likes of Kanko,Marcel & others out of the team will lead them to look elsewhere. Look at how well Craig Burden,Rory Kockett,Kanko & JPP to mention a few are doing in foreign climes. That is my sermon for now In closing,treat players with equal merit or respect & they will perform with the pride for country a lot of people are saying should happen.

Comment 82, posted at 13.06.14 10:54:30 by markm

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@Morné (Comment 81) : So then, to gauge which player is the best for a certain position, wouldn’t trials be the best way forward?

I don’t mind players moving overseas, especially because we have such an almost infinite player base. But I mind overseas players being selected at the expense of local players.

Trials will, to my mind, be the best solution.

Comment 83, posted at 13.06.14 11:02:15 by FireTheLooser

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If you can convince the franchises to release their players an extra week or two prior to what is already the IRB regulation by all means! (Good luck )

Rugby calendar simply does not allow for this. In addition you run a very high risk of injuring players.

The last Bok coach that had a trial match was Straeuli – no other team has these anymore.

Comment 85, posted at 13.06.14 11:09:18 by Morné

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@Morné (Comment 81) : My issue is not with the Bok team. Picking overseas players will not weaken the Bok team. I don’t have a problem with the policy on paper either, but I am not so sure about the 50/50 rule being applied correctly. I can see the point of Bakkies, FdP, Schalk Brits (as a stop gap due to Strauss’s suspension) and perhaps Habana. The rest in that squad I am not so sure about.

However the Super rugby teams will suffer if you can head off like Goosen after get a couple of Bok caps safe in the knowledge you will be selected for the Boks. Sure – the Cheetahs will find some young flyhalf in that player factory of theirs, but they start building from scratch again. Imagine they loose Strauss, Coenie and Willie too – they may as well settle for the last spot in super rugby then.

Comment 86, posted at 13.06.14 11:10:15 by Bokhoring

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Local competitions is still, by far, the biggest identifier of the next generation Bok.

Comment 90, posted at 13.06.14 11:16:49 by Morné

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@Morné (Comment 89) : Again I am not judging the 50/50 calls on Bok results, but I believe the same could have been achieved with local players. I am not saying Heyneke is doing a poor job as Bok coach at all.

At least those Cheetahs still contributed to a local franchise Soon they will be contributing to some French or English club, and they will be joined by up and coming Boks from the other franchises too.

Comment 91, posted at 13.06.14 11:20:22 by Bokhoring

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@Morné (Comment 85) : No other team has been exploring solutions regarding the effective utilisation of overseas based players….as you pointed out, this is inevitable and unavoidable.

So a system has to be implemented/created to effectively gauge which players are the best for a position, as the overseas guys do not face any Southern Hemisphere opposition.

It might not necessarily be trials….but how will we ever know how a guy like Cobus Reinach stacks up against Ruan Pienaar… Nyakane vs. Steenkamp…..Marcel vs. FLouw…Cooper vs. Brits etc. etc.

In all practicality, the best solution would have been to align our season with that of the Northern Hemisphere, drop SR and join the European club competition.

Comment 92, posted at 13.06.14 11:22:38 by FireTheLooser

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@Morné (Comment 90) : At least that part of the OSP selection policy is not open to interpretation. You can only be capped if you play locally. However once you have the cap, it is another story.

Comment 93, posted at 13.06.14 11:24:50 by Bokhoring

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Even if players play in the same competition there will always be a difference of opinion on who is the better option.

Since 2009 until 2013 when Morne Steyn left very few believed he was the best as first choice flyhalf. We will debate at length on who is the best between Schalk and Marcel, forget Flo.

I believed Whiteley was the best number 8 in Super Rugby but Vermeulen is still first choice by a mile.

And so we can go on.

I am off the belief European stints and competitions makes for a more rounded South African player. He spent years playing in SH conditions and experiencing a different type of game will 99% make him only better.

Comment 94, posted at 13.06.14 11:38:08 by Morné

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Paul Jordaan and Wynand Olivier called up to the Bok squad.

Comment 95, posted at 13.06.14 11:38:13 by Pokkel

Holy shit. really Meyer? Olivier? What the hell?

Comment 96, posted at 13.06.14 11:40:45 by PTAShark

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@Pokkel (Comment 95) : That 50-50 rule just became 90-10 in my opinion.

Comment 98, posted at 13.06.14 11:45:14 by Bokhoring

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Pretty sure all the other centers in SA is busy phoning their agents to get overseas contracts. In two years our SR players will all come from the Varsity Cup seeing as everyone is going to bugger off.

Comment 99, posted at 13.06.14 11:48:00 by PTAShark

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With Timotei there Sburu has absolutely NO chance of playing.

Comment 100, posted at 13.06.14 11:50:08 by Pokkel

The pressure now really is on Jan to perform this Saturday.

Comment 101, posted at 13.06.14 11:50:38 by Bokhoring

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So the Widow maker has returned…

Comment 102, posted at 13.06.14 11:53:57 by Uli Boelie

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@Uli Boelie (Comment 102) : All the assistant referees have received instructions to brush up on their handling skills.

Comment 103, posted at 13.06.14 11:58:34 by Bokhoring

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At least it should be. This player is better than that player is as close to a matter of religion as dammit.

Comment 107, posted at 13.06.14 13:44:03 by fyndraai

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@Morné (Comment 94) : Thanks for elaborating on the ‘rule’, it clears quite a bit up to me at least. I have a question regarding your comment. As context, I’m a Duane fan so this question is by no means a criticism aimed at his selection. Very happy with the fact that he’s first choice. Could you shed any light on the reasons as to why Warren Whitely did not get a look in? I’d be interested to know what the coach would be looking for in his number 8. I suspect it would also clear up some questions I have regarding the selection of a player such as Spies.

Comment 108, posted at 13.06.14 13:55:55 by vanmartin

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@FireTheLooser (Comment 111) : Don’t think I agree on your last point. Whitely was pretty good at that too in the games I’ve seen at least. That’s why I’m interested in knowing what Meyer would look for. I would have thought that Whitely ticks most of Meyer’s boxes.

Comment 112, posted at 13.06.14 14:22:10 by vanmartin

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@Morné (Comment 109) : Come on Morne, Habana is also in the 7s squad and he is in the Springbok squad. So using the fact Whitely is in the 7s squad as a reason for him not being selected is just not accurate.

Comment 115, posted at 13.06.14 15:42:13 by Dancing Bear

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@Morné (Comment 79) : Are you saying that the “minor details remain to be sorted” that Roux mentions have absolutely nothing to do with money, renumeration, image rights etc in any form at all, wherter to Steyn or someone associated with him.

Comment 116, posted at 13.06.14 15:44:10 by Salmonoid the Subtle

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@Letgo (Comment 113) : I struggle with that explanation. I agree that he prefers his Boks in size XL but surely people don’t think it just boils down to Meyer with a piece of paper with player weights and heights on them, placing tick marks next to the largest numbers? Not aimed at you specifically Letgo, just asking in general. If that were the case Meyer should be all over a guy like Deysel? There are obviously a few more specific attributes he’s also interested in.

Comment 117, posted at 13.06.14 15:45:48 by vanmartin

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@Dancing Bear (Comment 115) : Unless there is a double standard with Whiteley vs. Habana. Oh that’s right, one is locally based and the other overseas, so makes sense for the overseas player to be selected for both, but the local player only for 7s.

Comment 118, posted at 13.06.14 15:46:08 by Dancing Bear

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@Dancing Bear (Comment 115) : You’re going to have to do some reading between the lines there. I doubt that Morne can get into any more detail than what he’s already shared

Comment 119, posted at 13.06.14 15:47:42 by vanmartin

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@vanmartin (Comment 119) : Oh I fully expect that Morne can not say anymore and he is an honorable man and will adhere to his confidentiality agreements and not say anymore. Of course, he would have been better off just saying he can’t talk about it than trying to use that ridiculous explanation for why Warren was not selected.

Comment 120, posted at 13.06.14 15:52:42 by Dancing Bear

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All of this could have been avoided if SARU had had the balls to break with SANZAR! Why they are forcing a marriage that clearly isn’t working is beyond me… what we should have done is started a competition with European club sides. Firstly, it wouldn’t matter where our guys played because we’d be watching them every week anyway (assuming the bulk of our exports are in Europe). Secondly, bringing in European sponsors probably would’ve meant the salary issue could’ve been resolved. And thirdly, we probably could’ve had a clause in the contract whereby teams agree to limit the number of players being poached from each country represented in the competition (ie only so many players from SA could represent English & French clubs in the comp).

Comment 129, posted at 13.06.14 18:06:53 by CS

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All SANZAR have succeeded in doing (from 2016) is created a meaningless competition… They’ve called it a “competition” and tried to con us into believing that winning it actually means something, when in fact from SA’s point of view its just a glorified Currie Cup with a few arbitrary games thrown in against Australian and New Zealand teams every alternate year.

How can a team be crowned champions of the Southern Hemisphere when they haven’t even played every team, and they’ve had to play their own county’s teams twice but Aus or NZ teams only once (and then only from one of those countries every second year).

All I can say… Is I hope the quality of rugby that will be played is going to be fantastic, because the actual result is going to be largely meaningless.

What a disaster!!!

Comment 130, posted at 13.06.14 18:14:36 by CS

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Jissus you okes love conspiracy theories!

Guys it is logical.

What would be best for Whiteley right now;

a) Carrying tackle bags for a month
b) As a new member of the Springbok Sevens squad spend time with them and getting to know their structures and culture going into the Common Wealth games?

Habana is a sure starter for the Bok XV, Whiteley is a debutant rookie and would have been a tourist that would have been introduced to the Bok XV systems.

What is better for SA Rugby and the player in this instance?

Comment 131, posted at 13.06.14 19:24:36 by Morné

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Bok Sevens team is going to Romania next week for a warm-up tournament – this serves Whiteley better than anything he would have achieved in the Bok squad.

Comment 132, posted at 13.06.14 19:25:38 by Morné

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@Dancing Bear (Comment 65) : Wise words Uncle… I on the other hand won’t be supporting Wales but I honestly don’t care if the Boks win or not….

Comment 135, posted at 14.06.14 06:39:42 by Ben

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You just gotta love ol Bob Skinstad, says on Boots and All that he doesnt want to give a personal opinnion on the Frans Steyn issue right after he suggested that Steyn withdrew from the team at the request of the Sharks, so that he could get some rest.

Comment 136, posted at 14.06.14 09:44:35 by Salmonoid the Subtle

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So I just read that Andy Marinos did reach an agreement with Frans Steyn that SARU would pay for his brand name rites…and that SARU did pay exactly that for Steyn initially…and have now refused to continue paying. Here is the link to he news24 article: http://m.news24.com/sport24/Rugby/Springboks/Details-emerge-in-Steyn-saga-20140613
If that is true it is some really shoddy administration by SARU and…well, if I was Jeremy Clarkson, I would say they deserved to be shot!

Comment 137, posted at 14.06.14 10:32:25 by pastorshark

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@pastorshark (Comment 137) : I read that in the Burger yesterday and the immediate thought was….Marinos, with him anything is possible.

But Morne also seems to say that it is absolutely not financial (Im trying to get that confirmed but he is not biting)

Comment 138, posted at 14.06.14 11:49:21 by Salmonoid the Subtle

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@pastorshark (Comment 137) : Leave the shooting to Clarkson, you can do the last rites.

Comment 139, posted at 14.06.14 11:52:41 by Salmonoid the Subtle

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