I’m sure you’ve all heard the stories. Lou Dobbs states them, right-wing bloggers elaborate on them, conservative e-mail chains expand on them in ways even Dobbs doesn’t dare to do publicly.

And the stories are all variants on this theme: “Immigrants use up our resources and take our jobs and don’t give us anything in return!”

There’s one thing wrong with this theme: It’s bogus.

Here’s a PDF report published by American Progress on 5 key myths about immigrants that have been given lots of play over the years.

The 5 myths are as follows:

1. The US public health insurance programs are over burdened with documented
and undocumented immigrants.
2. Immigrants consume large quantities of health care resources.
3. Immigrants come to the US to gain access to health care services.
4. Restricting Immigrants access to the health care system will not affect
American citizens.
5. Undocumented immigrants are free riders in the American health care system.

The CAP report does a very good job of debunking these and other myths.

By the way, for those interested in real, workable measures to provide better jobs for Americans, check out CAP’s plan to cut our nation’s poverty in half. The steps are simple and (aside from making certain rich people whine) eminently do-able. Best of all, they aren’t a vehicle to promote racism.

This whole controversy is a sideshow — engineered partly by the publicity-seeking former ambassador Joseph Wilson and his wife and heightened by the hunger in parts of Washington to “get” Rove for something or other.

Like other special prosecutors before him, Fitzgerald got caught up in the excitement of the case and pursued Libby relentlessly, well beyond the time that was reasonable.

Yeah, yeah, I know! They like their hate. It’s their security blanket, their easy explanation for why their lives aren’t any better. It’s easier to blame the brown people than to look at the CEO pulling down one thousand times your annual salary.

Breaking news from Wonkette!
————
SCREAMING SCOOTER LIBBY SENT BACK TO JAIL

MOM! – WonketteWASHINGTON (AP) — Screaming and crying, Irve “Scooter” Libby was escorted out of a courtroom and back to jail Friday after a judge ruled that he must serve out his entire 30-month sentence behind bars rather than in his home.

“It’s not right!” shouted the weeping Libby, who was convicted of four felonies in a reckless spy-outing case. “Mom!” he called out to Dick Cheney in the audience.

Access to our healthcare has never been an issue with me. But I am torn about immigration because I am VERY concerned about jobs/wages/lack of unions in this country. We are systematically being made poor. And I’m worried.
Of course, my fears would be very much alleviated if corps weren’t using immigrants to lower wages. But they are. And I don’t buy the ‘jobs Americans won’t do bull’. Here in upstate NY there are very few immigrants. If you want someone to mow your lawn, there are people available. And you pay them what they ask.

but, one thing stood out for me, was the lack of anything on creating sensible trade policies.

i’ve been a bit disappointed that all the talk about immigration and the problems for workers in this country hasn’t sparked more discussion about how our trade policies contribute to these problems.

are any think tanks working on sensible trade proposals?

Not a think tank, but may I suggest Sen. Dorgans book, Take this job and ship it, for an excellent overview of what is up.

I finished thinking he is not against open trade, but he is against agreements that are egregiously weighted against Americans, perhaps agreements designed for political value rather than any kind of value for America.

This whole controversy is a sideshow — engineered partly by the publicity-seeking former ambassador Joseph Wilson and his wife and heightened by the hunger in parts of Washington to “get” Rove for something or other.

Like other special prosecutors before him, Fitzgerald got caught up in the excitement of the case and pursued Libby relentlessly, well beyond the time that was reasonable.

Haven’t clicked on the Leonig link, but damn, Broder is such a PNAC-worshiping eedjit. The fact that Libby protected the people who ordered the destruction of a CIA agent AND HER NETWORK IN IRAQ, which just happened to be investigating whether Saddam still had any usable WMD — you know, David effing Broder, the WHOLE EFFING REASON we were supposedly invading Iraq — just doesn’t seem to matter to him.

Haven’t clicked on the Leonig link, but damn, Broder is such a PNAC-worshiping eedjit. The fact that Libby protected the people who ordered the destruction of a CIA agent AND HER NETWORK IN IRAQ, which just happened to be investigating whether Saddam still had any usable WMD — you know, David effing Broder, the WHOLE EFFING REASON we were supposedly invading Iraq — just doesn’t seem to matter to him.

By the way, did Broder explain why Ken Starr wasn’t “pursuing…relentlessly, well beyond the time that was reasonable?”

I hope I made my point. I am not against immigration. I am against immigration being allowed to hurt other Americans. My anger is aimed at both corporations and any American who happily pays someone $2/hr. for services that should fairly be at a higher wage.
Which, of course, is the opposite of Bush.

I read an in depth article a few years back and it showed that the people that would be the most reliable union members, who inherently “got” what was at stake and would honor a picket line were minority women.

I think you see this beig validated by the strength of the service union members in Los Angeles.

Thank you PW for using the right terms. I do the “Home Alone” act every time someone uses the illegal immigrate phrase.

THEY are undocumented human beings. Using the that phrase dehumanize them and makes it easier to generate hate.

In AZ we have Hispanics who have been here for 10 plus generations and they get hauled over and racially profiled too.

We have a nutcake state rep who runs around saying that 5000 immigrates are crossing the boarder to vote for Democrats. That they are receiving Medicaid benefits [ya right] AND old JD Hayworth’s boogie man lines was “IF we give them legal status” then they would bankrupt Social Security by claiming all that money they paid in under a false SSI…. huh?

I hope I made my point. I am not against immigration. I am against immigration being allowed to hurt other Americans. My anger is aimed at both corporations and any American who happily pays someone $2/hr. for services that should fairly be at a higher wage.
Which, of course, is the opposite of Bush.

Solai, the easiest way to keep immigration from hurting other Americans is to a) raise the minimum wage to a living wage, and b) give all employees the right to blow the whistle without fear on employers who run sweatshops and exploit their workforce.

Do those two things, and suddenly there’s no problem — except, of course, for those sweatshop owners who wanted to weasel out of providing decent wages and working conditions for their workers.

Frankly, if I were an immigrant I’d head to Canada for Healthcare Services. In fact, I have such serious thoughts for myself, frequently. You bet the Healthcare system is broken – before the immigrants ever got to it. I can attest to this first hand.

Christy, I’m gonna go a little OT here, but it is something I need to say and I want to say it in Non-EPU land. From my view from afar Senator Byrd seems to be one of the very few honorable members of the Senate. I can think of no one more qualified to take his place than yourself, if you would be willing to take on the job and all the bullshit that goes with it. And of course if Mr. Redd and the Peanut were willing to share you to that extent.

If you should choose not to run, you will be much appreciated here as you are. In fact if you did run and win, it would be a loss to Firepuppies everywhere— but hey, give it a moment or two of thought.

Love you and Jane and Marcy and everybody else on the front page and most of the commenters here on the back pages. If I was younger I would say, “FireDogLake Rawks.”

I read an in depth article a few years back and it showed that the people that would be the most reliable union members, who inherently “got” what was at stake and would honor a picket line were minority women.

I think you see this beig validated by the strength of the service union members in Los Angeles.

Yup. The SEIU is doing very good work in this regard, as it’s difficult to offshore most service-industry jobs.

The number ONE employer of undocumented workers is the everyday homeowner.

1. Did you check your lawn guy’s documentation? (do you care because he is so cheap?)
2. How about your house cleaning service?
3. How about the nanny or the elder care attendant?
4. Did you hire the guy who drives around in a pickup to trim palm trees for cash?
5. The people who hang the adds on your door?

The reason that the healthcare system is broken is because of the 50 million uninsured and the other 50 million under-insured. The Emergency room becomes their PCP office.

thanks for the suggestion… but, from my reading, it doesn’t look to me that nafta, cafta, ftaa type trade policies are weighted against americans – they are weighted against labor, against enviromental concerns and ultimately against democracy. in america AND our trading partners (the analysis, i think, is different for china).

so, for example, nafta was BAD american workers AND for mexicans. there were corporate winners… but i think, as far as people are concerned, there were more loosers than winners.

joeseph stiglitz has written on this.

the current anti-immigrant fever seems to me to be a massive misdirection and scapegoating to deflect our analysis to the real causes of the problems – corporate written trade agreements.

mexican workers aren’t the enemy – they ought to be our allies in pushing back against the so-called “free trade” orthodoxy.

Frankly, if I were an immigrant I’d head to Canada for Healthcare Services. In fact, I have such serious thoughts for myself, frequently. You bet the Healthcare system is broken – before the immigrants ever got to it. I can attest to this first hand.

Yup. We pay the most and get the least for heathcare of any first-world nation. That’s because it’s a for-profit system. Anyone wondering why privatization of things like health care, Social Security and public utilities need only compare our health care costs to Canada’s. Nearly $1400 of the cost of every car Ford makes goes to health-insurance costs — costs that don’t exist in Canada.

I read an in depth article a few years back and it showed that the people that would be the most reliable union members, who inherently “got” what was at stake and would honor a picket line were minority women.

I think you see this beig validated by the strength of the service union members in Los Angeles.

thanks for the suggestion… but, from my reading, it doesn’t look to me that nafta, cafta, ftaa type trade policies are weighted against americans – they are weighted against labor, against enviromental concerns and ultimately against democracy. in america AND our trading partners (the analysis, i think, is different for china).

so, for example, nafta was BAD american workers AND for mexicans. there were corporate winners… but i think, as far as people are concerned, there were more loosers than winners.

joeseph stiglitz has written on this.

the current anti-immigrant fever seems to me to be a massive misdirection and scapegoating to deflect our analysis to the real causes of the problems – corporate written trade agreements.

mexican workers aren’t the enemy – they ought to be our allies in pushing back against the so-called “free trade” orthodoxy.

thanks for the suggestion… but, from my reading, it doesn’t look to me that nafta, cafta, ftaa type trade policies are weighted against americans – they are weighted against labor, against enviromental concerns and ultimately against democracy. in america AND our trading partners (the analysis, i think, is different for china).

so, for example, nafta was BAD american workers AND for mexicans. there were corporate winners… but i think, as far as people are concerned, there were more loosers than winners.

joeseph stiglitz has written on this.

the current anti-immigrant fever seems to me to be a massive misdirection and scapegoating to deflect our analysis to the real causes of the problems – corporate written trade agreements.

mexican workers aren’t the enemy – they ought to be our allies in pushing back against the so-called “free trade” orthodoxy.

beware of corporate sponsored divide and conquer strategies.

What selise said. :-)

With Lou Dobbs being first and foremost an apologist and shill for the corporatocracy.

The country doesn’t have a healthcare “system” to break; it has a healthcare “hodge-podge”. Take it from a relatively intelligent person trying to figure out how to survive with Medicare.

I have started to receive junk mail advertizing dental coverage for $5/month; that makes no sense whatever. Why isn’t there REAL coverage? (Well, we know the answer to that. If you aren’t employed by an entity with a good plan, you can be in big trouble, here.)

Frankly, if I were an immigrant I’d head to Canada for Healthcare Services. In fact, I have such serious thoughts for myself, frequently. You bet the Healthcare system is broken – before the immigrants ever got to it. I can attest to this first hand.

Yup. We pay the most and get the least for heathcare of any first-world nation. That’s because it’s a for-profit system. Anyone wondering why privatization of things like health care, Social Security and public utilities need only compare our health care costs to Canada’s. Nearly $1400 of the cost of every car Ford makes goes to health-insurance costs — costs that don’t exist in Canada.

Have you noticed how every thing that is humane the pundits call socialism? And every thing that is capitalistic they call democratic. Citizens are called consumers. Statements like “the private sector knows best” is considered an unquestionable truth. There is nothing like the power of repetition. Sometimes I feel like I’m trapped? between the pages of an Ayn Rand bad novel.

I doubt that Americans are being impoverished because their lawn-mowing jobs are being taken by immigrants.

What is impoverishing the country are three little words: “Made in China”.

And what will impoverish our children is “borrowed from China”

Boy, I couldn’t agree more. It seems to me that he immigration issue has gained so much strength, because it was largely created by the political manipulators as a tool. What is really hurting this country is the loss of jobs overseas for their cheap labor, and (IMHO) the scarcity of labor unions in this country. American corporations need to be strongly penalized for manufacturing goods outside of the U.S. Entire towns in the U.S. are now ghost towns because of this.

The country doesn’t have a healthcare “system” to break; it has a healthcare “hodge-podge”. Take it from a relatively intelligent person trying to figure out how to survive with Medicare.

I have started to receive junk mail advertizing dental coverage for $5/month; that makes no sense whatever. Why isn’t there REAL coverage? (Well, we know the answer to that. If you aren’t employed by an entity with a good plan, you can be in big trouble, here.)

I doubt that Americans are being impoverished because their lawn-mowing jobs are being taken by immigrants.

What is impoverishing the country are three little words: “Made in China”.

exactly right – trade policies, not immigration is a problem.

the scary thing is that i see mostly “free trade” idealogues and a few nativists who push for “protective” trade polices as a way to punish workers outside the usa (they are usually also anti-immigrant)…. and very, very few pols, pundits or economists who are working/thinking for trade policies that are good for the general public (instead of the few who will make out like bandits). stiglitz seems to be one exception.

i don’t want my choices to be limited to either the “free trade” idealogues or the nativist “protectionists”.

Here in East Tn we have 9 hours of hate radio a day…nine hours. I believe that the people who are spewing hate against “illegal aliens” are doing a lot to get any kind of civil discourse going in this country.

Breaking news from Wonkette!
————
SCREAMING SCOOTER LIBBY SENT BACK TO JAIL

MOM! – WonketteWASHINGTON (AP) — Screaming and crying, Irve “Scooter” Libby was escorted out of a courtroom and back to jail Friday after a judge ruled that he must serve out his entire 30-month sentence behind bars rather than in his home.

“It’s not right!” shouted the weeping Libby, who was convicted of four felonies in a reckless spy-outing case. “Mom!” he called out to Dick Cheney in the audience.

Ah! Now there’s the kind of snark I loved when I first discovered the Wonkette years ago.

It comes down to a question of who you’re going to believe, you lying eyes or AmericanProgress.org:

Myth #5 Undocumented immigrants are “free-riders” in the American health care system. …

This myth is perhaps the most ardently asserted belief regarding the U.S. health care system. The facts illustrate that undocumented workers contribute more to the revenue stream for U.S. social belenfits than they use.

In Texas for example … The state’s health care costs for undocumented immigrants … were …

The U.S. has a form of universal healthcare that is effectively free to the indigent and the undocumented, namely emergency rooms, which in nearly every state are required to take in all comers regardless of ability to pay. AmericanProgress.org is truthful but disingenuous when they claim this care doesn’t cost the state very much. Of course not, the cost of this care is absorbed in the form of uncollected medical bills and ultimately higher medical costs to those able to pay.

Go to any emergency room and see for yourself who is there. Ask any medical provider what percentage of their uncollected bills are due to care for immigrants.

Economically speaking, emergency-room care is premium care. But, medically speaking, denying people medical care until they need to go to the emergency room is inhuman, inefficient, and dangerous even to the insured.

OT Washington Post has the Sunday Talk Show line up. Fortunately I’ll be outside gardening. I’m not sure that Christy should even put up a link to chat about it. Joe L. and Tony Snow are on CBS Face the Nation, McCain on ABC This Week and Powell and authors Jeff Gerth and Van Natta on Meet the Press.

Thanks for that American Progress PDF. I have heard the medical myth a lot. Trying to get new immigrants to feel secure enough in this country to use library services is sometimes an uphill battle, because there is often distrust, etc. What we get with denying services is a lot of heartbreaking isolation that I’ve seen. I always thought that new immigrants whether legal or not should be afforded protections that would ensure health and dignity. Now it seems we are going backwards.
Even if we sent this PDF to Lou Dobbs, demagogue for anti-immigration and hatred of all things China, he would never honestly address it. He’s like O’Reilly. Only better heeled.

Well, I bet that if an illegal alien was injured whether being one that will work for far less money than any american or being a member of that fine christian organization ms13, health care will not be denied and with no money or very very little, I bet the cost is just added into the next health care price increase so basically the middle class is paying for these people’s health care. Which means their health check ups are when they are injured and require emergency care.

The U.S. has a form of universal healthcare that is effectively free to the indigent and the undocumented, namely emergency rooms, which in nearly every state are required to take in all comers regardless of ability to pay. AmericanProgress.org is truthful but disingenuous when they claim this care doesn’t cost the state very much. Of course not, the cost of this care is absorbed in the form of uncollected medical bills and ultimately higher medical costs to those able to pay.

Go to any emergency room and see for yourself who is there. Ask any medical provider what percentage of their uncollected bills are due to care for immigrants.

Economically speaking, emergency-room care is premium care. But, medically speaking, denying people medical care until they need to go to the emergency room is inhuman, inefficient, and dangerous even to the insured.

I friend of mine visiting a Texas hospital once saw a migrant worker with a hand that was bad (possibly gangrene?) resulting from an accident that was never taken care of, until the emergency room, it was horrifying. If people do not get healthcare until they are on the verge of gangrene, dangerous infection etc., that is expensive and costly. But it’s not their fault. Non coverage is fatal. The jist of the American Progress report remains.

You want to compare health care across countries? Take a look at Acute care hospital beds for starters, and then explore the rest of Nation master for other stats. [edit] The U.S. looks like a third world country in my estimation.

I doubt that Americans are being impoverished because their lawn-mowing jobs are being taken by immigrants.

What is impoverishing the country are three little words: “Made in China”.

exactly right – trade policies, not immigration is a problem.

the scary thing is that i see mostly “free trade” idealogues and a few nativists who push for “protective” trade polices as a way to punish workers outside the usa (they are usually also anti-immigrant)…. and very, very few pols, pundits or economists who are working/thinking for trade policies that are good for the general public (instead of the few who will make out like bandits). stiglitz seems to be one exception.

i don’t want my choices to be limited to either the “free trade” idealogues or the nativist “protectionists”.

This is the same old straw dog argument – either/or. There is a powerful laissez-faire constituency in America that has always been here. They now control all branches of government. The very language: “free trade” or “protectionism”. Stupid meaningless words. And it is repeated over and over and over.

Even if you want to manufacture in American and give local workers the jobs, the expertise are now gone. Try to find great tailors or footwear manufacturers. With no work they had to “retrain” and go into other businesses or mostly get some inane job beneath their skill level. Wonderful craftsmen could custom make cabinets for you. Now you have to lure someone out of Europe to do this work. They couldn’t make a living here. Had we had the Russian Revolution it couldn’t be any worse. We pay the same price for mass production, if not a high end Nike shoe would cost $20.00 retail, and they would make a terrific profit. No benefit ever came to the consumer – just needless junk.

Scared me, too, when I read it yesterday.
In the comments to that post, some were complaining that there really isn’t much direct evidence, but I think the concerns are real.

I think the message for us is to alert our Senators to this issue, because Mullen needs to be confirmed by the Senate. He should be grilled hard on the issues the DailyKos diary raises, and rejected if his answers aren’t good enough. Maybe the committee ought also to call Pace back to testify.

In addition, we should ask our senators to pass a resolution opposing any expansion of the war into Iran. No more blank checks for Bush!!!

If illegal immigration were stopped wouldn’t that reduce both the number of unemployed citizens and the number of working poor below the poverty line ?
Or perhaps more practicably couldn’t these same results be largely accomplished by forcing corporations to pay the minimum wage which would still leave illegal immigrants doing landscaping etc.

A pernicious lie of the Right on this topic is that of “anchor babies.” According to Right-wing propaganda, women come to America in late pregnancy, give birth in our hospitals at our expense (be sure to load up the “our”-s with as much furious indignancy as possible), and then claiming these children as U.S. citizens they bring their entire extended family in to the United States.

Googling the term can show you the Right Wing echo chamber in action: scrolling down the list of hits, you can first see a claim of 165,000 annual “anchor babies,” then 300,000 and then 500,000. All of these claims are of course scrupulously documented by linking to each other and then inflating the prior numbers.

On a whim (and when I had time which I don’t right now) I once examined the governmental statistics in the states bordering with Mexico, and found the numbers of anchor babies claimed by the Wingnuts to be considerably higher than the total combined births to Hispanic women.

And no statistics are kept of which of those women are citizens or not.

Meanwhile the “anchor baby” concept has its roots in 19th-century anti-Irish and -Italian immigration. And probably earlier. And of course laws already preclude the ‘anchor baby’ concept from working.

Who is this Clemons? I really think the stuff he raises is all smoke screen stuff. Convenient excuses. He doesn’t say anything about the Iran debate. In other words, he ignores all the big issues (in strategic terms), and spends all his time on the bright shiny objects.

The U.S. has a form of universal healthcare that is effectively free to the indigent and the undocumented, namely emergency rooms, which in nearly every state are required to take in all comers regardless of ability to pay. AmericanProgress.org is truthful but disingenuous when they claim this care doesn’t cost the state very much. Of course not, the cost of this care is absorbed in the form of uncollected medical bills and ultimately higher medical costs to those able to pay.

Go to any emergency room and see for yourself who is there. Ask any medical provider what percentage of their uncollected bills are due to care for immigrants.

Economically speaking, emergency-room care is premium care. But, medically speaking, denying people medical care until they need to go to the emergency room is inhuman, inefficient, and dangerous even to the insured.

I friend of mine visiting a Texas hospital once saw a migrant worker with a hand that was bad (possibly gangrene?) resulting from an accident that was never taken care of, until the emergency room, it was horrifying. If people do not get healthcare until they are on the verge of gangrene, dangerous infection etc., that is expensive and costly. But it’s not their fault. Non coverage is fatal. The jist of the American Progress report remains.

The question is what portion of the cost of their medical care undocumented immigrants pay. American Progress claims to have demonstrated that it is more than 100%. I claim that they have not demonstrate that. I’ll go further and say that I doubt that the fraction is anywhere near 100%, but of course I could be wrong. In any case, to do a proper accounting one has to take unpaid medical charges into account, which American Progress appear not to have done.

I would like to remind about the politics behind the current immingration situation. As I recall, no one (except Lou Dobbs) talked about immigration during the Clinton Admin. W thought it was going to be a political winner. Amnesty and guest workers were both going to make more Latinos vote R instead of D, and corporate campaign financers would like them as well. The third plus was that as TX gov, it was one of the few areas he could actually claim some expertise. How could it be a loser?

Well, reality impinged. Domestic job, and to a lesser extent, wage growth during the Clinton Admin had kept the immigration situation off the radar screen. But not so during W when 9/11 launched a recession and the corporatacracy went into full swing to depress both employment and wages. (All of the above–outsouring, more immigration, legal or ortherwise, offshoring, etc., etc.)

Under these circumstances, our brillian prez decided that it was now time for his immigration legacy program.

Tied into all the bigotry that immigration always does.* Tied into domestic workers problems.

Became one of the most devisive topics of the new millenium. Ds, of course, like Kennedy, played their usual too-dumb-to-live role.

That’s how we got to where we are. Like Iraq, there’s no solution.** Welcome to W-World.

*Visit Ellis Island, where you will learn that European immigrants didn’t learn English either and their children, who did, had to serve as intermediaries with shopkeepers, doctors, etc.

**Of course, in the case of immigration, there is a partial solution & it does not require new laws, but rather enforcement of exisitng laws. It is known where illegal immigrants work (Wal-Mart cleaning crews, meat packing, construction, etc.) You can’t penalize employers because there is no fool proff ID card, but you can raid & deport illegals, which would serve as a serious discouragement to more of same. Pols, however, won’t bite the hand that feeds them.

Breaking news from Wonkette!
————
SCREAMING SCOOTER LIBBY SENT BACK TO JAIL

MOM! – WonketteWASHINGTON (AP) — Screaming and crying, Irve “Scooter” Libby was escorted out of a courtroom and back to jail Friday after a judge ruled that he must serve out his entire 30-month sentence behind bars rather than in his home.

“It’s not right!” shouted the weeping Libby, who was convicted of four felonies in a reckless spy-outing case. “Mom!” he called out to Dick Cheney in the audience.

LOL!

Seriously, in the matter of Parisite Hilton:

A bit of humane empathy is warranted here. Were I sentenced to 23 years in jail, I’d likely be crying too.

Thanks Selise. Interestingly, they are debating the two theories in the comments in the Clemons post. I sure hope Clemon’s theory is right.

Thanks for pointing to the comments. Some of the essential points re: Iran are noted there, but no response from Clemons. One of the commenters quoted the speech from Mullens where he sounds like a whacko– written up in my local newspaper!– that worries me.

At any rate, the Senate confirmation hearings need to be thorough, to air all these issues!

The immigration issue is a win-win for the Wealthy, because rather than sparking class anger against the Wealthy for using illegal immigrants to hold down wages, it triggers instead race anger between factions of the Poor. So the Poor fight among themselves and the Wealthy laugh all the way to the bank.

The number ONE employer of undocumented workers is the everyday homeowner.

1. Did you check your lawn guy’s documentation? (do you care because he is so cheap?)
2. How about your house cleaning service?
3. How about the nanny or the elder care attendant?
4. Did you hire the guy who drives around in a pickup to trim palm trees for cash?
5. The people who hang the adds on your door?

The reason that the healthcare system is broken is because of the 50 million uninsured and the other 50 million under-insured. The Emergency room becomes their PCP office.

You are absolutely correct. Having lived in Southern California near the boarder, it is obvious that most all the jobs you outlined are filled by Mexican and Central American immigrants that routinely canvass neighborhoods looking for these types of jobs. From my experience, most were undocumented and the majority spoke little or no english (which is really scary when employed as child care workers). However, I beg to differ with some of the arguments put forth in the piece. It was well known that pregnant women would cross the border when labor was imminent, call an abulance from a phone booth and be taken to the hospital to deliver. The nurses called them “super babies” because of the phone booth/superman saga. Also, in the evenings the emergency rooms at the hospitals would be full of undocumented/unisureds needing care and would not be turned away. No matter how you feel about the issue, these are facts. Border states deliver inordinate amounts of free health care and primary education to undocumented people and the taxpayers pick up the tab. While we must find a humane solution to the immigration problem, we should be fully aware that the cheap labor we have become accustomed to is not really so cheap after all.

One problem I have with the immigration discussion in general is the current use of amnesty and proposed fines or fees paid by immigrants or those who just want work permits or residency. Amnesty clearly is the intent of congress in terms of US employers who hire illegally. It sounds as if there are no consequences in play for illegal employers, large or small. IMO, this is a point where real control would be possible…if one can or cannot get a job will determine whether or not people migrate unabated.

Other concerns of mine are the way we detain those who are arrested and their families… Is it the will of congress that we continue to imprison indefinitely entire families? If so what can we do to treat people in a much more humane or dignified manner…and what are the real costs of that part of the system?

Also has anyone looked in depth at the current debate enough to determine if we are all headed towards national ID’s?

,,, It was well known that pregnant women would cross the border when labor was imminent, call an abulance from a phone booth and be taken to the hospital to deliver. The nurses called them “super babies” because of the phone booth/superman saga. …

That sounds like the first few hours of Bill Richardson’s life as I heard on NPR a couple of weeks ago.

I have to disagree with you on this post.
I live in Los Angeles where the health care system
has been totally overrun with the illegal alien influx.
This is just a fact.
It may be that the problem is not as overwhelming where
you live, but out here it is incredible.
It does no good to divide this issue into Republican and
Democrat, liberal or conservative.
If we don’t fix this problem by closing the borders and
fining employers who – as a matter of course – hire people with no documentation, or forged documents,
our children will forever pay the price, and it is large.
This (amnesty) immigration bill has HUGE costs to the American public associated with it, and what in heck
will a 24 hour background check turn up? How will this
government be able to process all these people going over and back across the border, they can’t even process our own citizens who they mandated had to have passports with them when they traveled to the Carribean or Canada or Mexico.
Please look further into this issue than the ‘unfairness’ of taking a stand against illegial aliens coming across unguarded borders to work for substandard wages and avail themselves of publicly funded medical services to the detriment of so many underpriviledged or just plain poor citizens who desperately need our help too.
Respectfully,

And here’s another element to undocumented immigrant workers and health care: North Carolina farmworkers having babies with severe birth defects (no arms or legs; parts of the brain or face missing) because of pesticides used by Ag-Mart (for growing “Santa Sweet” cherry tomatoes). I’m sure this is happening in other states, too. I’m now buying only organic produce.

The story doesn’t specify undocumented workers, but they are the backbone of this state’s agricultural industry, as today’s front-page article makes clear—much of the produce and tobacco (also Christmas trees) will go to waste because it’s getting harder to find the undocumented workers that agriculture depends upon:

The number ONE employer of undocumented workers is the everyday homeowner.

1. Did you check your lawn guy’s documentation? (do you care because he is so cheap?)
2. How about your house cleaning service?
3. How about the nanny or the elder care attendant?
4. Did you hire the guy who drives around in a pickup to trim palm trees for cash?
5. The people who hang the adds on your door?

The reason that the healthcare system is broken is because of the 50 million uninsured and the other 50 million under-insured. The Emergency room becomes their PCP office.

Agree. We need the illegals. They are in fact our new slave class. The ‘brownies’ mowing our lawns are reminiscent of the days of the ‘darkies’ in the field. We are determined as a nation to return to those beautiful days before the war – the Civil War, that is. Now if we could just get them to sing in unison!