That's a fact Jack!

Originally Posted by PigPus the Truthteller

The actions of Jack Ruby are of course all you need to know to realise it was a mob hit.

Ruby was a hardened mobster and killing meant nothing to him.

Yet we are supposed to believe he was upset that Kennedy had been killed. No mobster on Earth was sorry to see Kennedy get killed as he reneiged on the deal he made with them. They expected him to send the marines in to get their casinos back and instead of that he wanted to jail them.

Ruby was clearly the rub out man.

An interesting book which makes an oblique reference to the Kennedy hit is "I hear you paint houses".

It is the story of the man who killed Hoffa by Frank the Irishman Sheerin. It is a great read and casts a good light on the power the Mafia boss in upstate New York held at that time.

1) “Young Ruby sold horse-racing tip sheets and various other novelties, then acted as business agent for a local refuse collectors union that later became part of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.” (typical Mafia business activities in Chicago).

3) “He developed close ties to many Dallas police officers, who frequented his nightclubs where Ruby showered them with large quantities of liquor and other favors. Ruby went to Cuba in 1959, ostensibly to visit a friend, influential Dallas gambler Lewis McWillie, an associate of Mafia boss Santo Trafficante. (Trafficante operated major casinos in Cuba and was briefly imprisoned after Fidel Castro came to power). The House Select Committee on Assassinations inferred from Ruby's trip to Cuba, and his subsequent trips, ‘...that Ruby was at least serving as a kind of courier on behalf of gambling interests in Cuba.’” (Hmmm...walks like a duck, quacks like a duck…). Jack Ruby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4) “Similarly, a PBS Frontline investigation into the connections between Ruby and Dallas organized crime figures reported the following:

In 1963, Sam and Joe Campisi were leading figures in the Dallas underworld. Jack knew the Campisis and had been seen with them on many occasions. The Campisis were lieutenants of Carlos Marcello, the Mafia boss who had reportedly talked of killing the President.

A day before Kennedy was murdered, Ruby went to Joe Campisi's restaurant. At the time of the Kennedy assassination, Ruby was close enough to the Campisis to ask them to come see him after he was arrested for shooting Lee Oswald..(Friends with Mob).Jack Ruby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

5) “In his memoir, Bound by Honor: A Mafioso's Story, Bonanno explains that several Mafia families had long-standing ties with the anti-Castro Cubans through the Havana casinos operated by the Mafia before the Cuban Revolution. The Cubans hated Kennedy because he failed to fully support them in the Bay of Pigs Invasion; the Mafia hated the Kennedys because, as Attorney General, the young and idealistic Robert Kennedy conducted an unprecedented legal assault on organized crime. This was especially provocative because several of the Mafia "families" had worked with JFK's father, Joseph Kennedy, to get JFK elected. Joseph also worked with many mobsters as a bootlegger in the 1920s. Both the Mafia and the anti-Castro Cubans were expert in assassination, the Cubans having been trained by the CIA. Bonanno reports that he realized the degree of the involvement of other Mafia families when he witnessed Jack Ruby killing Oswald on television: the Bonannos recognized Jack Ruby (aka Jacob Rubenstein) as an associate of Chicago mobster Sam Giancana (emphasis added).” (Recognized by Mob as the Mob).
. Salvatore Bonanno: Facts, Discussion Forum, and Encyclopedia Article

6) “Another motive was put forth by Frank Sheeran, a hitman for the Mafia, in a conversation he had with the then-former Teamsters boss Jimmy Hoffa. During the conversation, Hoffa claimed that Ruby was assigned the task of coordinating police officers loyal to Ruby to murder Oswald while he was in their custody. As Ruby evidently mismanaged the operation, he was given a choice to either finish the job himself or forfeit his life.” (No one denies Sheeran was a Mob hitman). Jack Ruby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

VERSUS:

1) Some writers, including former Los Angeles District Attorney Vincent Bugliosi, dismiss Ruby's connections to organized crime as being minimal at best:

It is very noteworthy that without exception, not one of these conspiracy theorists knew or had ever met Jack Ruby. Without our even resorting to his family and roommate, all of whom think the suggestion of Ruby being connected to the mob is ridiculous, those who knew him, unanimously and without exception, think the notion of his being connected to the Mafia, and then killing Oswald for them, is nothing short of laughable. Jack Ruby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check out Mark Lane’s reply to Bugliosi on JFK’s assassination:VINNIE, IT IS ROUND By Mark Lane
.
2) Bill Alexander, who prosecuted Ruby for Oswald's murder, equally rejected any suggestions that Ruby was part-and-parcel of organized crime, claiming that conspiracy theorists based it on the claim that "A knew B, and Ruby knew B back in 1950, so he must have known A, and that must be the link to the conspiracy."Jack Ruby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Errr…isn’t that how all prosecutions for conspiracy start? First you prove there were two or more people who KNEW each other and then AGREED to commit a crime together. And why is it conspiracy debunkers: a) always ignore the fact that RICO laws were passed to more effectively fight Mafia conspiracies, and b) have no problem with our prisons being filled with poor people convicted of conspiracy crimes?]

4) and author Gerald Posner suggests that he may have been confused with Harry Rubenstein, a convicted Chicago felon..

[Ahem, the same Gerald Posner who said: "If there was ultimately a conspiracy behind King's death, a crude family plot seems more likely than a sophisticated operation involving the mafia or some government agency. That James Earl Ray has lived thirty years after the murder is persuasive evidence that professional conspirators were not involved, since if they had been, they would have disposed of him. They could never be safe so long as Ray lived, and he would have little incentive not to turn them in to authorities in order to win his coveted freedom. However, if the conspirators included family members—a charge that all Ray's relatives have persistently denied—then he would have an incentive to stay silent. The special bond among the Rays would prevent James from turning in the only people he ever trusted" ( Killing The Dream: James Earl Ray and the Assassination of Martin Luther King , Jr. by Gerald Posner)].

[So following Posner’s logic: The fact that Ruby killed Oswald soon after Kennedy was killed is, according to Gerald Posner, persuasive evidence that professional conspirators were involved.]

5) Entertainment reporter Tony Zoppi is also dismissive of mob ties. He knew Ruby and described him as a "born loser".

[Sorry, but he doesn’t look like a born loser to me: just see him in this picture as a classic mafia pimp surrounded by his high priced ladies (the blonde is Candy Barr then a nationally well known stip teaser)].

McGovern is saying that his former boss, George H W Bush was involved in the assassination. Everything points in that direction.

The CIA which G H W Bush became director in 1975, wanted JFK dead for he was going to "break the CIA up into a thousand pieces."

Also under Executive Order 11110, JFK was going to have the Govt print its own money which would have put the FED out of business.

Now if I was a Director of a run-for-profit private bank with exclusive rights to print and lend money to the US Govt, I'd probably kill for that right to continue.

I have gone into this quite a few times, but the single bullet theory doesn't stand. There are fragments of bullet pulled out of Gov Connally's leg and wrist which are supposed to have come from a single WHOLE bullet which has no blood on it, no deformity, and has not lost any lead.

The Attorney General for Texas, testified to the Warren Commission that Oswald was working for JE Hoover in the FBI, and was paid $200 a month. It seems certain that the CIA framed Oswald for the assassination, after they discovered that he was an FBI agent who had infiltrated the CIA's secret training camps which Hoover had shut down. CIA agent Delphine Roberts testified to the Warren Commission that she had seen Oswald in the CIA training camps just days before Hoover's FBI raided it.

Hoover named G HW Bush in a memo titled " Assassination of President John F Kennedy" which he outlines a meeting he had with George Bush of the CIA on the 23rd of November 1963. Rather strange considering Bush had been in Dallas on the 22nd of November and had faxed a warning a few hours after Kennedys assassination warning that Kennedys life was in danger from a "James Parrott".

Bush went to see Hoover to be sure Hoover wouldn't sing that Oswald was an agent. Hoover had already prosecuted GHW Bush's father, Prescott in the 40's under the "Trading with the Enemy Act" for funding Hitler's rise to power. So Bush junior "Poppy", was getting his own back on Hoover. Clearly Hoover was either threatened or compromised.

I like the work done by Tom Wilson, which shows Photonically that the fatal bullet came from a shooter in a drain on Elm St.
He uses the "Moorman"photgraph capturing the head shot as Kennedy's brain was about to explode.

6) “Another motive was put forth by Frank Sheeran, a hitman for the Mafia, in a conversation he had with the then-former Teamsters boss Jimmy Hoffa. During the conversation, Hoffa claimed that Ruby was assigned the task of coordinating police officers loyal to Ruby to murder Oswald while he was in their custody. As Ruby evidently mismanaged the operation, he was given a choice to either finish the job himself or forfeit his life.” (No one denies Sheeran was a Mob hitman). Jack Ruby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sheerin was a close friend and protecter of Hoffa for a long time and Hoffa trusted him with his life. Eventually Hoffa had to go so Sheeran was given the job.

Sheeran says in the book that he was ordered by the upstate NY boss to deliver 3 rifles to a guy who took them from an airfield in, I think Maryland, to Texas before the killing. He did not say that he heard anyone mention what they were for but that it was prior to the hit

I hear ya!

Sheerin was a close friend and protecter of Hoffa for a long time and Hoffa trusted him with his life. Eventually Hoffa had to go so Sheeran was given the job.

Sheeran says in the book that he was ordered by the upstate NY boss to deliver 3 rifles to a guy who took them from an airfield in, I think Maryland, to Texas before the killing. He did not say that he heard anyone mention what they were for but that it was prior to the hit

I hear ya, but to be fair, Sheeran may have concocted this story to sell the book. That said though, if he is believable about having been a hit man for the Mob then why isn't he also believable about this story? I think though that the admission by James K. Files (aka James K. Sutton) is more believable and intriguing:

Files was outted by FBI Agents initially in secret then publicly after the Agents retired. Files has never been paid and has never sought payment. Moreover, most parts of his story are independently verifiable (and verified), i.e. he was with the 82nd Airborne in Laos (a CIA project) in 1959, left the US Army and later hooked up with Chicago mob hitman Charles Nicolletti, etc... And just as he was a killer for the US Army & CIA in Laos and Vietnam, he continued this tradecraft with Charles Nicolletti who inturn worked for Johnny Rosselli, etc...

Sheerin just mentioned it as an aside in his book. It was not a big deal and they may have had a different job as far as he knew. It was the timing that he aluded to as being odd. Moving rifles and hits were normal chores to him. It did not impact sales of the book.

I found his story very credible. His lingo and mannerisms were very true to the behaviour of people I have met. His story is about killing Hoffa. Why would he lie at the end of his life and say he had killed his friend if he had not done it. He killed countless people. He relates how his job in the army was to kill German prisoners as the logistics of taking care of them was difficult

Well....

Originally Posted by PigPus the Truthteller

Sheerin just mentioned it as an aside in his book. It was not a big deal and they may have had a different job as far as he knew. It was the timing that he aluded to as being odd. Moving rifles and hits were normal chores to him. It did not impact sales of the book.

I found his story very credible. His lingo and mannerisms were very true to the behaviour of people I have met. His story is about killing Hoffa. Why would he lie at the end of his life and say he had killed his friend if he had not done it. He killed countless people. He relates how his job in the army was to kill German prisoners as the logistics of taking care of them was difficult

Well, there is no question Frank Sheerin was a mass murderer dating back to his US Army days in WWII.

But what he is relating is double-hearsay: i.e. Hoffa told him so and so said Ruby was ordered...

And since he & Hoffa are dead and you can't cross-examine hearsay let alone double hearsay it's inherently incredible.

Yet James Files is very much alive and his story is first hand --- not hearsay.

And like Sheerin, Files too was a mass murderer with the Army & CIA and later for the Mob.

All of which has been verified and is verifiable.

Moreover, Files was outted by the FBI. He didn't come forward on his own. And there is no book deal.

And a respectable eye witness identified him as the trigger man on the grassy knoll that day.

Also several former CIA and mob types have identified him as the kid from Alabama who was involved.

Finally, Files story is simple: he used a special mercury loaded bullet to blow JFK's head off.

Therefore according to Files a simple exhumation of Kennedy's body to test for mercury would prove it.

Rogue CIA agents, Mobsters with a grudge and right-wing anti-Castro Cubans fused together on this.

No big deal really given their vast expertise and experience in knocking people off.

The real conspiracy was in the Establishment's cover-up of all this because it was hugely embarrassing.

And a threat to the National Security establishment because it would have spelled the end of the CIA.

And if you don't think so then go back and watch that David Suskind interview of Harry S. Truman.

That's why the cover-up: the Establishment didn't want to throw their CIA baby out with the bathwater of rogues.

And the historical irony in my humble opinion is JFK would have approved of this cover-up.

Remember, it was JFK who approved the assassination of Prime Minister Diem a week before 11-22-63.

So contrary to what a lot of people think...losing JFK was no big loss.

I was listening to a radio show on this subject but unfortunately can not remember who was being interviewed. The person related that LBJ wanted Warren to come out of retirement to chair the investigation and Warren flatly refused. LBJ asked him if he had forgotten Mexico City after which Warren burstinto tears. One can make what they like of that story.

One thing for sure though, unless Ruby turned into an alterboy for a few hours, the story of him killing Oswald to save Jackie Kennedy grief is a story nobody could possibly swallow. Or could they

Another thing.

"A Congressional Investigation from 1976-1979 found a "probable conspiracy" in the assassination of John F. Kennedy and recommended the Justice Department investigate further. As of 1991, the Justice Department has done nothing. The files of the House Select Committee on Assassinations are locked away until the year 2029. "

Well...

Originally Posted by PigPus the Truthteller

I was listening to a radio show on this subject but unfortunately can not remember who was being interviewed. The person related that LBJ wanted Warren to come out of retirement to chair the investigation and Warren flatly refused. LBJ asked him if he had forgotten Mexico City after which Warren burstinto tears. One can make what they like of that story.

Well, I don't know but note that Earl Warren didn't retire from the Supreme Court until 1969 - in fact he swore in Richard Nixon as President in January 1969.

One thing for sure though, unless Ruby turned into an alterboy for a few hours, the story of him killing Oswald to save Jackie Kennedy grief is a story nobody could possibly swallow. Or could they

Yes, people did swallow that syrupy lie and still do because they're dumb enough to be fooled.

Another thing. "A Congressional Investigation from 1976-1979 found a "probable conspiracy" in the assassination of John F. Kennedy and recommended the Justice Department investigate further. As of 1991, the Justice Department has done nothing. The files of the House Select Committee on Assassinations are locked away until the year 2029.

However, it was FBI Agents with the US Department of Justice that outted James Files.

Why did Ted Kennedy spend 30 years spouting shythe in the Senate instead of demanding an investigation to find out who killed his brother. Unless of course he knew.

I guess that's because like his brother Bobby he knew that JFK was engaged in all kinds of skullduggery and so better to just let sleeping dogs lie. That's why Richard Nixon ordered his chief of staff, H.R. Haldeman, to tell the CIA that further investigation of the Watergate Affair would "open the whole can of worms" about the Bay Of Pigs of Cuba, and, therefore, that the CIA should tell the FBI to cease investigating the Watergate burglary, due to reasons of "national security".

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