>but now he says...HE ONLY LEAVES FEEDBACK AFTER BUYER LEAVES HIM A POSITIVE >FEEDBACK!
>what an asshole!!

Uh, sorry for saying this, but:

it's very common practice among Ebay sellers to only leave feedback once the buyer has left feedback.

In my experience, only low-feedback and 100% positive feedback sellers are likely to leave feedback first. And often only once they've sent the item and if the buyer has good feedback already. Otherwise, seller-feedback-first is a big NO-NO.

I also think that seller is entirely right to retaliate with a negative. Because your reason for leaving a negative is lame and unjustified.

As for the item, what a waste of money (20 bucks shipping within the US? WTF?!?).

And now that I've actually read the post, you're pissed that he didn't give you positive feedback first? And you wonder why he was annoyed about you repeatedly emailing him about it? Why didn't you just post positive feedback when you got the thing and be done with it?

John -I don't leave feedback as a seller until the buyer leaves me some.

Why?

Assume I immediately leave positive feedback upon receipt of payment and then proceed to send out my as described item -only to receive negative feedback from whatever ninny, dumb-ass, or just plain evil troll that receives it.

Waiting to leave feedback until the buyer has signified that he has

a) received the item and
b) is satisfied

only makes sense.

(buying stuff from a guy with 22 negative feedbacks in the past 6 months, on the other hand, does not)

Leaving negative feedback because you didn't get any yet, despite being satisfied with the item and being able to continue a dialogue with the seller, is rash, abusive, and bonky. I sympathize with the seller. You sound like the kind of bidder I hope desperately to avoid.

While I don't care for the Voltes plaque design, this seller had some macross styles up that looked pretty sweet because it had the fully stylized logo design. A couple folks over on Macrossworld got them and love them.

Sorry John, as painful as it is to see everyone here piling on you, you did overreact in this case. It is quite the norm for the seller to wait until after the buyer has posted his positive feedback first.

At first, I thought this was one of those "beware of bad seller", warnings because I was tempted to buy one of their Macross signs. But after reading your post, I have to agree with Corey.

Even though positive feedbacks are expected and should be given to buyers ( especially the ones that pay immediately/promptly), I understand why most eBay sellers do it this way - so that they can try and work things out with buyers before getting unjust feedback(s).

Call me old fashioned or over-principled, but as a seller I always (with a few exceptions) leave positive feedback once the buyer has paid in a timely and appropriate manner. That's how it is supposed to work. I understand the reasoning behind the feedback hostage system, but I don't like it. When I am buying, I will not leave feedback under those circumstances. (again, with a few exceptions)

I have had my share of jackassery on the part of buyers, but as yet I have never been burned by my policy. (knock on wood)

That being said, leaving negative feedback in the above case was reactionary and uncalled for.

Seriously though, like I said, I have bent my principles when the situation called for it. You know, willow vs. oak and all that. There have been one or two transactions where the buyer was acting squirrely from the get go so I waited. There have also been occasions when sellers used automated feedback systems so I left positives preemptively. Under ordinary circumstances though, I follow the old ways.

The only negative feedback I have (that wasn't removed by eBay) was from someone who left it the second the auction was over. Not much I could do about that.

I asked the seller nicely 3-4 times within the 2 months or so..i gave hime sufficient times to answer each time i emailed him...
he kept saying he did..finally he said he will only leave feedback after I leave him a feedback...WTF? he could have told me that after my first email to him..(which was after i received the item ...on the second or 3rd week...i thought that was reasonable time to ask for a feedback)...

FEEDBACK HOSTAGING is not right..

Was I right to give him a negative feedback? probably not...but I felt HELPLESS...I was the customer and I deserved proper service...for one thing I PAID an OUTRAGEOUS AMOUNT for the shipping although of course I KNEW THAT WHEN I BID for the ITEM...I am not complaining about that...but paying for such an amount(over priced item and over priced shipping) one expects the courstesy of being given proper customer service, i.e. leave a positive feedback....sine the customer paid right away...

I have read your posts guys I understand about the seller holding the feedback for fear or retalation from the buyer etc...but the point is...
IT SHOULD JUST BE A COMMON BUSINESS COURTESY to leave a positive feedback to your buyer/customer especially if they paid right away...
And as a buyer how do I know if the seller hasn't forgotten about me, after I leave him apositive feedback?

you can call me anything you want...but that is okay...we still love toys:-)

P.S. I knew the seller would retaliate too...he gave me a negative feedback...BUT I GOT MY MESSAGE ACCROSS, that's all that matters...
I least I didn't go postal on him hehehhehee

P.S. 2...was I satisfied with the item and servce? not really...it looked better in pictures than in person...I PAID TOO MUCH FOR IT...but of course I knew that when I bought it but I thought it would look as good in person as in the pictures...

The item was shipped LATE it took him 2-3 weeks...he lives in CALIFORNIA TOO! it should NOT have taken that long...but that's beside the point :-)

> IT SHOULD JUST BE A COMMON BUSINESS COURTESY to leave a positive feedback to your buyer/customer especially if they paid right away

I totally agree. It should also be a common business courtesy that people don't blast you with negative feedback for no apparent reason when you have fulfilled your end of the bargain to the utmost.

I also believe we shouldn't have to spend the best years of our lives consumed with work and that all women I find attractive should offer themselves to me no matter their age, time of day, or my marital status.

Gaw-damn reality rears it yoogly haid.

The *best* business courtesy would be that all those with limited or quirky brain function be driven away from eBay and off a cliff; their remains made into soylent green.

But who'd be left to eat it?

That being the case (at least as far as I see it) I like my "don't expose your buttocks to a potential cretin" system better:

I post auction
You bid
You win (oh, joy)
I invoice
You pay (oh, joy)
I ship
You receive
You acknowledge receipt (feedback works well!)
I acknowledge your sentience (feedback works well!)

Should there be a problem:
You email
I respond
We get to determine the mental capacity of our counterparts wherein:

b) One or both of us turns out to be bonky (feedback works to alert the community to our respective bonkiness)

Face it John: overloaded with buyer's remorse, you felt the least this shyster could do, a big meanie who'd sucked you in to paying too much money to ship a piece of crap, which you'd paid too much money for, the least he could do was to lay some positive feedback on you. When he balked, you fired. You know why you did it, just admit it.

Now take a look at his record: that's a lot of negative feedback (you'd think he'd be immune by now). This guy is probably a little gun-shy at this point (though he's still out there locating willing victims) so it's no wonder he gave you the "you first" routine.

you say...buyer pays and you ship, buyer should give you positive feedback
I say...buyer wins and pays, seller should give positive feedback, buyer need not beg for it...

for those who agree with me..thanks...
for those who disagree..it's all right, it's all good...:-)

CAE WROTE:

Face it John: overloaded with buyer's remorse, you felt the least this shyster could do, a big meanie who'd sucked you in to paying too much money to ship a piece of crap, which you'd paid too much money for, the least he could do was to lay some positive feedback on you. When he balked, you fired. You know why you did it, just admit it.

JOHN says....yeah the buyer's remorse was 2 months too long :-)

BUT WITH ALL THIS...did the seller or me BENEFITTED FROM it?

well....I FEEL BETTER because as i said I felt helpless and had to beg for some lousy feedback which he refused to give...he could have TOLD me the first time i asked for the feedback that HE ONLY GIVES FEEDBACK AFTER the BUYER gives him a feedback..but NOOOOOOOO...the seller led me to believe that he was going to give it and he even said he will give it soon...only after 3-4 emails that was the time he told me about his "policy"...THAT WAS WHAT pissed me off...

Lemme get this one straight now...
(and I read EVERY post [amen Cae, BTW])

John is pissed...because the seller didnt leave him feedback right away?
That's it, right?
Maybe it's me being confused, or maybe I smoked too many cigarettes today...

But wouldnt John have gotten his positive feedback if he just left some in the first place?
I mean, John, dude...
You got negative feedback for like, no reason.
If you were willing to let the late shipment go, why not just let the feedback hostaging go?

Onizuka Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lemme get this one straight now...
> (and I read EVERY post )
>
> John is pissed...because the seller didnt leave
> him feedback right away?
> That's it, right?
> Maybe it's me being confused, or maybe I smoked
> too many cigarettes today...
>
> But wouldnt John have gotten his positive feedback
> if he just left some in the first place?
> I mean, John, dude...
> You got negative feedback for like, no reason.
> If you were willing to let the late shipment go,
> why not just let the feedback hostaging go?

Onizuka...

you're right...i could have...BUT I WAS PISSEd and i FELT HELPLESS...i FELT THAT i was taken for a ride...IF only the seller TOLD me in my FIRST email to him that HE only gives feedbacks after the buyer gives him a feedback...BUT he kept saying that he gave me one alraedy and kept checking and i kept emailing him..NICELY worded emails....
I thought he was acting like an ASS...

So an ASSHOLE gets an ASSHOLE treatment...giving that Negative feedback made me feel Vindicated...Getting a retaliatory feedback from the seller...I DID NOT CARE...

As james brown said...

"I feel good...." :-)

P.S. I know I went crazy and I went overboard...I didnot Let go...BUT I FEEL GOOD...

Do people really care all that much about feedback after a certain point? I mean if you have a fair number of feedbacks with little or no negatives it serves it purpose no? Allowing the seller or buyer to see your worth a safe transaction with. I rarely care anymore if the seller leaves feedback. if they do, great. if not, well, there is always another item to buy. Don't get too hung up on it, as it will serve to hinder rather than help.

being emotional in buisness transactions rarely bodes well. Its like arguing on a BBS. just makes you look foolish.