I'd actually go a step further and ban smoking around children altogether, even I'm homes.

Sure there's lots of things we do that are bad for us, and I'm not hysterical about adults smoking if they choose, I smoked in my early twenties, but smoking around children who have no choice is just one of those things that I find utterly gross and unnecessary.

panda but we already have some laws that dictate what you can and can't do in your own personal space because it infringes on someone else- such as not leaving small children alone in the house when it puts them at risk.

It's a bad law if it cannot be enforced as it makes criminals out of people who are otherwise law-abiding making it easier for them to commit more illegal behaviour on the basis of "well, who's going to catch me". They know they're not going to get caught so they carry on. If there is a possibility of being caught then, the behaviour you are trying to target decreases.

You see it with mobile phone use in cars. For the first couple of months after the introduction of the new law, I saw virtually no-one on a mobile phone in a car, now I see it all the time. People know they won't get caught so why not do it. It is a pointless law as it doesn't stop those who habitually use their phones in their cars and it makes people who wouldn't ordinarily think "WTF, everyone else does it so it's not going to matter if I do".

I do think pragmatically you can't have a law that cannot be enforced and this would be tricky. Anyone who is very distracted by smoking while driving would already be committing an offence (ie careless driving). So the offence here is not to ban smoking and driving but to ban smoking in a car whether or not you're driving but only if there is also a child in the car. It would be really difficult to to draft and enforce in my view.

Personally I wouldn't use my phone in the car, obviously I'm aware that it's potentially dangerous, but might I chance it for a quick call if I'm running late. No because I wouldn't risk the fine and the humiliation of bring pulled over. So laws do work I think.

but we already have some laws that dictate what you can and can't do in your own personal space because it infringes on someone else- such as not leaving small children alone in the house when it puts them at risk.

There is no actual minimum age of when a child can be left alone though. If a 4 year old was left in their house and someone called the police, they could be charged with neglect, but not specifically for leaving them. For older children, its at SS discretion based on the parents view of how responsible their child is.

There are very very few laws which cover things happening in personal space. That's for a reason. We are not a nanny state, nor should we strive to become one.

The mobile ban hasn't worked it is very common to see drivers on the phone and if we can't manage that one properly then we have no chance with a cigarette ban, it's easier to prove a mobile was used than that a cigarette someone dropped was smoked while driving.

I remember 23 years ago when the law was changed to make raping your wife illegal - I also remember --utterly stupid Conservative--MPs sneering about ' a camera in every marital bedroom' . What a ridiculous idea about laws and personal space - I killed you in my own house so don't tell me what I can and can't do in my personal space!!

But laws don't stop people doing all types of crimes, people still murder, steal, rape, vandalise, every single day. Does that mean they should all be legal because the law doesn't stop people doing it?

No of course not, because most people don't do these things because they have a conscience, they know it's wrong, we need laws for the people who won't do the right thing by themselves.

No cigarettes aren't illegal, but it's illegal to smoke in public places, it's illegal to smoke in work vehicles, so why not in cars with children?

So the mobile phone law doesn't stop some people doing it anyway, does that mean we should make it legal?