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My point was that you could have a border locked down....100% of all crossings were legal...and you'd still have the current public health problem. This disease is not using a swine vector. It's transmitted human to human. Eric

Right now, we don't KNOW all the vectors, this is a "swine/avian/human" Type A influenza, something that's never been seen before in this combination and WHO spokesman Thomas Abraham said. “We have what appears to be a novel virus and it has spread from human to human.”
They are NOT saying it is ONLY spread from human to human. Note currently WHO is at at a Phase 3 Alert - In Phase 3, an animal or human-animal influenza reassortant virus has caused sporadic cases or small clusters of disease in people, but has not resulted in human-to-human transmission sufficient to sustain community-level outbreaks. Limited human-to-human transmission may occur under some circumstances, for example, when there is close contact between an infected person and an unprotected caregiver. However, limited transmission under such restricted circumstances does not indicate that the virus has gained the level of transmissibility among humansnecessary to cause a pandemic. What IF it started from people eating infected pork or poultry? Which brings me to:

WHERE DID IT COME FROM?!?
What IF this is a bio-terrorist attack?
This thing has killed at least 60 people in Mexico and more than 900 others have fallen ill. They've shut down schools, museums and other public gathering places, and the Army has been distributing face masks to the population. But all the CDC can say here is that "it's too late to contain" so

There are everyday actions people can take to stay healthy.

Cover your nose and mouth with a tissue when you cough or sneeze. Throw the tissue in the trash after you use it.

Wash your hands often with soap and water, especially after you cough or sneeze. Alcohol-based hands cleaners are also effective.

Avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth. Germs spread that way.

Try to avoid close contact with sick people.

Influenza is thought to spread mainly person-to-person through coughing or sneezing of infected people.

If you get sick, CDC recommends that you stay home from work or school and limit contact with others to keep from infecting them.

And even if it isn't a bio attack, this definitely could fit the description of a "man-caused disaster" so DHS "could" step in. If this was a flood, we'd at least be trying to sandbag and stop the SOURCE of the problem. A wildfire, you try to cut a firebreak and limit the damage. If this turns into a human 'flood" because we've got better health care than south of the border, we're SCREWED!

If the border was controlled, we wouldn't have the same "current public health problem",we'd have passports, visas etc. and could have at least SOME semblance of control; who came in, from what town, at what crossing, what date, etc. Right now we have next to nothing! Our border "dike" is more breaks than bags, and worse yet, it is actually diverting the people that will be most likely to carry this virus AWAY from the places where there MAY be medical care to help them and out into uncontrolled "no man's land". But even if we did actual records, some activist judge would probably step in and rule that this is some privacy issue!

In Honduras, Health Minister Carlos Aguilar said Saturday it may quarantine passengers with flu-like symptoms. So Honduras can take "some" type of positive action, but WE can't?
Blame whatever Administration you want. That's not too important right now.

But while you deny, people will die.

Last edited by BrianW; 04-26-2009 at 10:11 AM.
Reason: WHo level 3 add

"It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
________________________________________
Proud partner of (HR) WR SR Brian's 44Magnum Monster
co-owned by HR Rianne's 2nd Chance Hurricane Rebel

From AP http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/med_swine_flu_q_a
Q. Can people get swine flu?
A. Swine flu viruses don't usually infect humans. There have been occasional cases, usually among people who've had direct contact with infected pigs, such as farm workers."We've seen swine influenza in humans over the past several years, andin most cases, it's come from direct pig contact. This seems to be different," said Dr. Arnold Monto, a flu expert with the University of Michigan.

Q. Is the same swine flu virus making people sick in Mexico and the U.S.?
A. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said the Mexican virus samples match the U.S. virus. The virus is a mix of human virus, bird virus from North America and pig viruses from North America, Europe and Asia.

Q. Are there drugs to treat swine flu in humans?
A. There are four different drugs approved in the U.S. to treat the flu, but the new virus has shown resistance to the two oldest.

Q. Does a regular flu shot protect against swine flu?
A. The seasonal flu vaccine used in the U.S. this yearwon't likely provide protectionagainst the latest swine flu virus.

So THIS virus appears different from anything in the last several years, is a mix of viruses from all over the world and is resistant to drugs & vaccines.

Anyone care to discuss "weaponized bioagents"?

Last edited by BrianW; 04-26-2009 at 02:02 PM.

"It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
________________________________________
Proud partner of (HR) WR SR Brian's 44Magnum Monster
co-owned by HR Rianne's 2nd Chance Hurricane Rebel

It has already killed 81 in Mexico. Our leaders can't hide from this one, or can they?

ALL areas where there have been outbreaks need to be quarentined.

The freedom to discriminate is essential to personal Liberty. Life in a free country is about being free to make choices based on your own criteria rather then one mandate by the government...Libertarian blogger

Quarantine is only effective at the earliest stages of an outbreak and where a population can containded by infrastructure or geograpy (an island). This cat is already out of the bag with confirmed cases in 4 states, New Zealand, and supsected cases in France and Spain.. Quarantines would be a whole lot of wasted energy.

Closing the borders would be equally ineffective. If it ever could work...it's too late!

This is not an 'illegal imigration' issue. The people that are spreading the virus are on the 'great silver birds' as in airliners. That's not new. Knowledgeable people have known this would happen for at leat 10 years.

Your US Government is on this with golf-shoes. They have already released the Strategic National Stockpile of Tamiflu and declared a state of national emergency. The CDC is anticipating an increase in both the number and severity of cases. An they are making forward leaning statements about next fall. Pay attention...please!

Closing the borders would be equally ineffective. If it ever could work...it's too late!

Repeat above

This particular case (italics mine) is not an 'illegal imigration' issue. The people that are spreading the virus are on the 'great silver birds' as in airliners.

Not yet. BUT "We're preparing in an environment where we really don't know ultimately what the size or seriousness of this outbreak is going to be." stated Janet Napolitano.
This is a excellent example (imo) of why our border needs to be controlled! Truckloads of "undocumented" people are shipped freely over the border on a daily basis. It's no major stretch of the imagination to have highly contagious weaponized bioagents carried by infected "mules" that could wreak havoc wherever these folks are dropped off.

Your US Government is on this with golf-shoes. They have already released the Strategic National Stockpile of Tamiflu and declared a state of national emergency. The CDC is anticipating an increase in both the number and severity of cases. An they are making forward leaning statements about next fall. Pay attention...please!

Proactive is better than reactive, but I'll take what we can get in this case.

No, it's too damned important not to. As you've said yourself, this has been predicted for years. and still practically nothing has been done. Ask the health care workers in the Southwest how they feel about treating possibly drug resistant TB cases that come into ER rooms for free medical care. How long do we continue to rely on luck? This is nothing compared to what a concerted, dedicated effort by our enemies could do.

In this case, maybe we NEED to take a hint from Rahm Emanuel and don't let a crisis go to waste. Pandering for demographic votes in order to get elected has gone on for far too long and sacrificing our national security in the hopes of advancing political agendas has got to stop by both parties!!

Last edited by BrianW; 04-26-2009 at 03:09 PM.

"It's not that government is inherently stupid, although that's a debatable question."
Rand Paul CPAC speech 2011

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
________________________________________
Proud partner of (HR) WR SR Brian's 44Magnum Monster
co-owned by HR Rianne's 2nd Chance Hurricane Rebel

In this case, maybe we NEED to take a hint from Rahm Emanuel and don't let a crisis go to waste. Pandering for demographic votes in order to get elected has gone on for far too long and sacrificing our national security in the hopes of advancing political agendas has got to stop by both parties!!

OK, I can live with that. But, your statement about this going on for years and nothing being done is not correct. Check out the site below (even though it pains me that the former administration accomplished this much):

It is the flu folks and yes through history the flu has killed far more than anything else, but it is not a panic situation and few will die from this. Huge difference between living conditions in Mexico and America

Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
Corey Burke