Beppe Grillo: "Italy Is Already De Facto Out Of The Euro"

In a preview of an interview he will conduct today with German's Handelsblatt, the surprise winner of last month's Italian elections Beppe Grillo said that Italy is “already de facto” outside the euro and runs the risk of being “dropped” by the region’s wealthiest members as soon as their banks recoup what they invested in the nation’s bonds. His suggestion - the same that got Greece's G-Pap promptle sacked in late 2011 - a popular referendum to decide if Italy should remain in the Eurozone. Grillo's best line, however, was saved for Mario Monti: "he is a bankruptcy trustee on behalf of the banks" which is perhaps the most astute description we have read of the former Goldman operative ever. Still think Grillo is just a simple-minded comic with a penchant for anarchy?

The Italian politician and surprise winner of the last general election, Beppe Grillo, does not believe the fate of Italy is to remain in the Euro-zone. "In fact, Italy's already out of the euro," said the leader of the party "five stars" in an interview with the Handelsblatt. He believes that the Nordic countries would keep Italy only so long, "until they have taken the pure investment banks in their Italian bonds again. Then they will drop us like a hot potato."

Grillo sketched a popular decision on the euro. It has to pass an exit from the euro but "not alone" but would "make an online referendum on the euro." Just as on the Lisbon Treaty. These are "all issues on which our Constitution was ignored".

Interview Grillo expected sharply with the current Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti. This was "a bankruptcy trustee on behalf of the banks. Held up at the top earners and cut the state system, he has the people below paying higher taxes. "

Grillo sees itself not as anti-European. "Europe must not be afraid," he told Reuters in an interview. He asked, however, a strong reversal and "more democracy." For his party, he takes to claim. "We are the French Revolution - without guillotine" Europe needs a "Plan B," says the Italian politicians.

"We must still ask: What happened to Europe? Why do we have no common information policy, no joint tax policy, no common policy of immigration? Why has only Germany been enriched?"

All very good questions which Italy's population will be increasingly seeking to get answers for.

The only difference I see by Grillo's election is that "they" can now finish off their destructive schemes in Italy and blame the whole mess on him. If they kill him, then there's a much bigger mess to clean up, and I doubt they're ready to collapse the whole world, just yet. After all, there's still many collateralized assets left to steal.

As always, it's about behavior at the margins.

Then again, perhaps "they" are on the margin themselves, and will use Grillo as the proverbial "Shot Heard Around the World 2.0?"

Adding up my two cents - by asking "Why has only Germany been enriched", he gives the (bad) credit to the wrong entity here - Germans are not rich, German corporations may be rich on paper, but Germans are not rich - the German government as agent of their people is underwriting massive debt securities and is heavily indebted = not rich. At least not in my world, or am I wrong?

But Grillo tries to direct the anger into national territories within Europe instead of concisely sticking with his (righteous) narrative of the (super-national) bankster class draining the European people, and all the rest… as a political phenomenon he may add a good charge to the game - but as a poliitician I see room for improvement…

After Grillo make Germans very angry, things will start rolling. Once again, the zionist banking mafia will get big problems.

Hitler was a great preacher but was a very lousy politician. He tried to fight the City Jewish Banksters and be a good friend with the British government owned by these banking gangsters. No wonder he lost big.

government is always an agent for its creditors, not its people. it may happen that in some rare cases its own people are creditors; but more often than not, the creditors of governments are a few banking families who own the central bank

The narrative of any serious government always begins with "In the name of the people…" thus claiming their people's agentship - and most of them believe it too… but you do of course make a point: "by their deeds, and not their words, you shall…" how does the saying go?

To my knowledge the Bundesbank is not a privately owned central bank.

On that note, everyone in the internet seems to assume, that the ECB is a privately owned bank - which I have never seen real proof of - my own (poor) research had me conclude that the Euro zone member's central banks own the ECB - and some of those are (more or less) privately owned.

Is there a reliable source that actually exposes the private influence in the ECB?

Even Jack Layton in Canada died from cancer of the pelvic area (subsequent to prostate cancer which is generally curable). This after the "Orange Wave" took Quebec for the left. Chavez. I am not paranoid but your comment may not be far off the mark...

Good example. Same is true of Stewart and Colbert (party line... not dumb as rocks, I don't think). They both speak truth to power, but very selectively. They are like cattle dogs. All mainstream media is propaganda, only it's more sophisticated than the propaganda back in the day. The goal is to keep people equally divided.

Afraid so. In the mean time the "character assassination" of Grillo and its M5S is already well under way in Italy, both in the mainstream Italian media and through the astroturf posting on every and each blog entry that speak well of the M5S.

As, BTW, is at risk too mr Crocetta, the just elected governor of Sicily (that lead a regional parliament of center-left with the external support of the M5S) for his opposition to the American military Muos (Mobile User Objective System) installation... :(

The Greek MSM are doing far better job, than the Italian MSM, by excluding EPAM Movement. Which is advocating to leave Europe, Let The Banks Collapse (Icelandic Model here) ,by asking all of the Monies back given to them and Guarantees. Liberating the Central Bank of Greece (nobody knows who it Belongs to, UTTER SECRECY here) by Nationalising it. and Worst of all its General Secretary is Dimitris Kazakis, an Economist that knows the system very well, top Analysis on a daily basis.

(In English: "The first executed by this tribunal is Louis Guyot des Maulans, a gentleman from Poitou, arrested the 12th of December, 1792. Sentenced on the following 6th of April, he was executed the same day, and, as the hour was late, by the light of four dozen torches".)

Sounds like a combination of some good ol' Nazi instant 'justice' and a pre-WWII Nuremburg Rally. Charming.

I think Grillo doesn't understand the implications of the Target2 system. A breakup of the Eurosystem is much more expensive to Germany and the banks than to cause massive wage deflation and GDP shrinkage in the PIIGS. Eventually Germany will have to engage in some kind of transfer union whether they'll call it what it is or not. The political elites of Europe are also so closely tied to the Euro-project that they won't allow any step back.

The only solution therefore is, sadly, revolt and violence. And that's what I'm expecting in the not so distant future

about TARGET2 with a Greek example (take Italian, if you prefer) - (first time I prepared a comment)

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Assume a Greek citizen with a bank account in Greece. He closes that account and transfer it to his bank account in Germany. This transfer is debited from his Greek bank account with the Bank of Greece and then credited to his German bank account.

As each euro in the national banking system is a liability for the respective national bank, the liabilities side of the Bank of Greece’s balance sheet is then “too small” and that of the Bundesbank’s balance sheet “too large”. TARGET2 balances adjust for these discrepancies: the Bundesbank holds a claim against the ECB as an asset; the Bank of Greece has a liability of the same amount vis-à-vis the ECB.

It's nevertheless still a Greek national holding euros - in the German banking system instead of the Greek one. Though of course this lead to extra-eurozone banks - like those in the UK - to shout first "Bank run!" and then "Redenomination risk!" And then grumble on because nothing is breaking the way they could profit from it.

Just to complete the view, btw, European Union members that are not part of the Euro area have to repay net outflows at the end of each business day, i.e. they can never accumulate negative TARGET2 balances. For example, following a large scale outflow of capital from Denmark to the Euro area, the Danmarks Nationalbank would either use euros from its reserves or issue kronas to buy euros on the foreign exchange market in order to net these outflows.

So yes, if Greece would be outside of the eurozone it would needed euros to buy back drachmas - and so increasing the run of FX/funds outside of Greece. Shorting the drachma would then be a child's play, particularly thanks to it's small size. The Greek economy would then experience an increasing dearth of credit while prices would double - perhaps eventually in short period of times, leading to increases to wages - in drachmas.

Yes, the debt - if denominated in drachmas (something British and other creditor banks campaign to avoid) - would dwindle away. Nevertheless, I ask you: if this is the path to prosperity, why do countries like Argentina not prosper from it?

Again, the EUR is working as designed. Leaving the eurozone is easy - facing the consequences, including funding external needed resources as oil, a more thorny issue. All the eurozone countries have the choice to exit it and so enter the great dollarzone - or peg (IF they have FX-reserves or gold) to the EUR and be monetary eurosatellites, like Denmark or Switzerland. Or drop in the abyss.

In the above case it's still a Greek national with his euros in a German bank. If some Greek bank gets his trust and he shifts his euros there, his portion of the T2 imbalance reverses. Of course if he would bank in London or NY, then no T2 balance would be affected, so perhaps that's the whole problem, eh? (Damn Greek should stop trusting the German and trust more the British and American banks./s)

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the only thing that changes in the above example is the size and composition of the Italian debt and it's creditors, as well as the size of the Italian economy versus the Greek (and the important fact that Italy can achieve balanced budgets)