Hi, I'm new to this group so I thought I'd post my recent experience with this issue.

I was recently in a relationship that on the whole lasted about 6 years with someone who I didn't know had BPD (it was a "possible" diagnosis, her old therapist hadn't been definite), and she also has PTSD. We were never assuming we'd be a "forever" couple, and we broke things off a couple of times in the middle on good terms. However, the second of those times, I started noticing some very weird and alarming behavior when she met someone new briefly, but we ended up getting back together as she had started working on figuring out a lot of her issues and was a much cooler person for it. Towards the very beginning of our relationship, she had a lot of the typical jealousy issues and upsets if she didn't hear from me enough (though she usually did), but over time those pretty much died down to a once-in-a-blue-moon occurrence, and she generally seemed to think I was pretty awesome. It seems that with my help and my own boundary/limit setting, the bulk of her impulsive emotional symptoms died down substantially, and I even helped her stop smoking and she got off of prescription amphetamines (for ADHD) which she was apparently abusing.

But there were still recurring issues throughout those 6 years of just abysmal self-esteem, occasional flare-ups of abandonment fears, general patterns of idealization and devaluation towards other people she would meet--and in the case of men she might be interested in, she altered more between sort-of liking them and devaluing them--didn't maintain or build friendships much, deep feelings of inadequacy and incompetence when bad judgment was exercised, fast-cycling mood swings in relation to other aspects of her life, feeling unsure of her identity, feelings of flatness and depression, frequent physical illness, sexual hesitations, and a very few minor dissociative episodes (beyond the dissociation involved in these other symptoms). Towards me though, she seemed more or less stable in her behavior after the first year, except she seemed not very forthcoming about sexual issues and any slight disturbance or rejection on that front was obviously felt as if it was a total rejection of self and of love even though she would almost never initiate anything.

In the end, it was her lack of willingness to work on her previously identified issues (which intensified our mental disconnect, as I would point out) that resulted in our break-up. Apparently she felt like she had to deal with these problems herself. We'd both talked about her going to a therapist, but she only told me after all this that she had avoided calling one because she had no idea what to tell them when they would no doubt ask what she wanted to see a therapist for. She had not consulted any literature, had not delved into any of it herself, she thought she just had to "journal through it" or something. While that did actually help, she didn't feel able to maintain sustained inquiry into herself, and would end up stopping or feeling like she'd lose herself or feeling all kinds of anxiety reactions.

Towards the end though, I noticed that she seemed to be "scouting," in a sense. This means she seemed like she not only got rid of the walls between herself and other people, but appeared to try to view others as better than they actually were, and to view me as slightly less important than she had. After we broke up, she seemed to maintain some closeness, though she did seem to be avoiding me a little. However, our connection didn't seem to have changed much for worse or better.

Then she started seeing someone about a month after we broke up, and there were INSTANT changes in her behavior. She became highly defensive towards me, like suddenly I'd set off all her buttons by being the same way I always was. She avoided me more and spent next to no time with me. Her positive emotions towards me seemed almost entirely shut off, and even if I was being totally friendly and she was not being defensive, I still felt that there was a very artificial wall there in regard to any romantic or intense feelings for me. I brought these things up, and she could immediately see some truth in it, but proceeded to apparently ignore it or find easy explanations or justifications and various ways to avoid the implications of it. The more I'd react to this, the more she'd accuse me of behaving radically differently than I had before, and how that "freaked her out," though mostly I was hurting and trying to work through an obvious problem with her so we could at least stay friends.

During this time, she also told me way more about her intimate life with the new boyfriend than any normal person would possibly imagine I'd want to know, and she did it in a particularly and clearly vulnerable moment of mine--not maliciously, it just seemed like it didn't occur to her that it would be upsetting to me, as if shutting off her positive emotions for me made her unable to understand mine for her. Other things about their intimate life came to my attention through her sheer carelessness and lack of willingness to keep such things totally private. This was especially hurtful because she had been so hesitant in our own intimate life, particularly when she was not connecting with herself or working on her issues. After about a month of me pointing out how she was blocking her emotions for me, I found the right combination of words that drove this home to her as an inescapable truth. I pointed out that even if she could remember the positive feelings, she was totally unable to re-experience them like she would if she recounted some fond memory of camaraderie with her high school friends. I was hopeful that something would be done about this, and glad to finally get through the barriers with this issue, but the next day all the urgency about it seeemed to be gone. She knew it was a problem and was going to go to therapy (she was already going to go because she'd realized with my help that she had PTSD and had in fact been diagnosed with it long before), but she was in no hurry to look into the problem herself or even look at the implications of how she was handling anything else. And she wasn't trying very hard to find a therapist.

Her new relationship seemed to be substituting for her own sense of self-worth, self-acceptance, self-comfort, adequacy and competence (which are terribly low when she's alone, as I was able to observe). They even broke up for a night two weeks into the relationship, and she started feeling suicidal and hopeless. She seemed to find it difficult to treat me with complete devaluation, but definitely treated me instantly as completely undesirable (and "rewrote" important things in our relationship as if through that lens, even though she'd clearly written otherwise on her blog at those times), reacted more in a "what's he doing wrong" manner than "what's he doing right" manner towards me, and took any opportunity to view me as threatening or abusive (which was pretty much based on me pointing out these problems and how they affected me and could potentially affect everything else).

In the end, even though I'd helped her realize specific problems she had and that she needs therapy, she continued treating me in this poor manner and seemed to be in no hurry to deal with the problems, in spite of the fact that we've had a very close and generally very good history together. I told her that the very least I needed from her to stay in contact at all was for her to make therapy (self therapy and clinical) a priority under the circumstances--she has a history of not following up on such things--and to start treating me with the respect and trust I've earned, even if she can't yet feel the loving feelings that are a part of that. I cannot stand by and be emotionally abused when someone doesn't show any sign of trying to stop it, and I can't watch all the good things in our 6 years together be devalued and rendered unimportant while she builds up this new relationship with someone who meets all the criteria for a "rescuer" and has terrible self-esteem himself.

What I find so disheartening about this is how invisible so many of the symptoms were, so it's only now at the end of 6 years that I seem to be getting the full blast of so much of it. If the alternating idealization and devaluation had been there throughout things, I would have left a long time ago, but now it's as if I've lost my relationship AND my best friend to something that was rather hard to detect, and that I can't do anything about. And though she's more aware that there is a problem than most are, she still doesn't really SEE it or FEEL it, and therefore thinks it's my behavior (grief, confusion, anxiety) that is outlandish and inconsistent.

Only in the last week have I done a lot of research on BPD (which is about a week after I realized she had a "possible" diagnosis for it, and a week after I did extensive research on PTSD). In retrospect, I can see that the other symptoms cropped up from time to time and why, and I can see where the fears of abandonment came into it throughout things, and I was very interested to see that nearly every single BPD defense mechanism has been used in regard to me the whole time (but again, mostly in the last few months). I also found that there are low-functioning BPs (i.e. the ones typically talked about here and other places), high-functioning BPs, and those that overlap the two categories (I call them middle-functioning). So I wondered if anyone else has experience of high or middle-functioning BPs? Also, I read just yesterday that the symptoms relating to impulsivity often disappear first before the others do. So the jealousies, the flare-ups of temper, accusations, etc, those apparently go away first. I think in her case, that's what happened even if they flare up occasionally and less intensely (which can be normal human behavior), but does anyone else here have experience of that? And has anyone ever seen this mostly manifested at the END of a relationship (or in this case, the start of a new one) rather than being equally present throughout? I'd love to hear different experiences of these things, but I recognize that's not so likely, because that makes the issue much less clearly BPD, and so people who have seen that may not even have sought out this community. I'd love to hear from you guys.

I also had the notion that "relationships" should also be considered part of the "compulsive behaviors" due to how they are treated. This particular person seems to use them to self-medicate, and all her insecurities are soothed by being in a relationship that is at least mildly stable or healthy. Red flags about such relationships are treated much the way that red flags about substance abuse are (avoidance, accusations, "you're the one with the problem" statements, justifications, splitting, etc), and in cases where sex-related traumas are involved in their history, perhaps sex and love are not adequately differentiated. Anyone else have thoughts on this too?

[I also recommend that anyone who has been affected by BPs check out the song I have listed below.]

My name is Caroline, and I am a senior at at Boston area University.I am currently conducting a study on effective support measures for the friends and family of people with Borderline Personality Disorder.I would love the opportunity to chat with members of this community. I am looking to hear about your experiences gaining social support in relation to your friend or family member.

Please contact me either by replying to this message with contact info or at CarolineSTP@yahoo.com, if you would be willing to talk.I attend a Boston area University, and would be happy to travel to meet in a public area in person but could also do a phone interview with anyone in the United States.You are welcome to stop the interview at any time or to extend it as you desire, but you can expect the conversation to be informal and last approximately half an hour.

Please note that I will use the information from these interviews in written work for my thesis project at school. Anything that you share with me will be in complete confidence.Only my research advisor and I will have access to a tape of our conversation, and this tape will be destroyed when my project is over.However, I would be happy to share a copy of the final paper with you so that you may use the findings to your benefit.

Don't know if there's much action here, but it seems like one of the few BPD related groups on Livejournal.

About me, I am an adult child (I'm 35) of a BPD (my mother). Because of this, both my brother and I took several years before being able to relate properly to others once we moved away from home. Interestingly, as I've read often happens with children of BPDs, we (especially me) sometimes act as if we were BPD, but I don't think we are - we can both step back and realize that our "default" behaviors aren't quite right. Moreover, since I grew up with a BPD, I am "comfortable" around people with this disorder and have had and often (unknowingly) saught out BPD people as friends, friendships that always ended rather poorly.

To top it all off, I am also a "third-culture kid", someone who grew up in a country other than their home culture and had to return and assimilate into a society to which they don't feel they belong, although everyone thinks they should. From recent research on TCKs that I have read, they often exhibit BPD behaviors and are often diagnosed as such, unless they are fortunate enough to meet a therapist familiar with TCKs.

Anyway, I don't want to belabor my situation, I'm just interested in connecting with others that might have had similar experiences and would like to share tips on choosing more positive friends and also how to deal with having a BPD parent.

I just found this group while looking up non-BPD info online. I guess you can say that, in a way, I am an "ex-non-BPD", having dealt with a few in my past who I was close to, and learning since to identify and avoid getting close to severe BPD sufferers. I do still have at least one friend who is currently diagnosed with BPD, but it's of a milder variety and is being well-managed/treated.

Just by searching online you can find lots of horror stories from non-BPDs about their ordeals, as well as writings from non-BPDs who seem to rebuke a lot of those horror stories and make excuses for BPD-sufferers. I am sure this is because of the wide spectrum of BPD severity and symptoms out there. The ones with the horror stories who despise BPD-sufferers probably had to deal with the abuse of severe-BPD sufferers, while those who downplay such stories probably only dealt with mild-BPD sufferers. So it's wise to take certain generalized sweeping statements that each type makes about "everyone" with BPD with a grain of salt, and only look at their stories as specific to their own particular cases. Sure, maybe not all BPD suffers are evil and abusive, but not all of them are innocent and well-meaning either. And mental illness should not ever be an excuse for abusive behavior. There are countless people who have committed crimes like murder, torture, rape, sexual assault, child abuse, animal abuse, neglect, and so on because of insanity. Sure, it might be easier to have sympathy for someone who is just mentally ill rather than someone who is just evil, but even that distinction can be hard to determine in some cases.

Anyway, a good friend of mine just escaped a relationship with someone we are 99.99% sure is a pretty severe BP. I am doing my best to be supportive of her, but of course due to the nature of BPD having social effects, it's hard for there to be a clean break. There are a lot of mutual friends and acquaintances, and of course some drama, and it has impacted my life as well. But I am trying very hard to help her (and us) get through this as cleanly and completely as possible.

I have other friends who have dealt with extreme BPD-sufferers, including a few who's severe-BPD friend committed suicide last year. The suffering I've seen all my non-BPD friends go through really infuriates me, especially since they are some of the most sweetest, conscientious, and caring people I've ever known. I suppose maybe those are the types of people that severe BPD-sufferers most often lure in close to them...

I'm of the mindset that although insanity might be a reason for someone's behavior, it should never be an excuse for it. If a completely deranged person rapes and kills a child out of some uncontrollable, twisted, but non-malicious urge, the end result (a raped and dead child) would be the same as if the crime was committed by someone sadistic, cold, calculating, and evil. I suppose a case could be made for the second person being insane as well, but that's a totally different topic for debate.

In our society, we put one person in prison for a crime, while we put another in a secure institution for the same crime, depending on each person's motives/sanity. But the thing is, both types are still dealt with appropriately. However, unfortunately, many people are too willing to ignore, excuse, accept, or perpetuate (or even in some cases, enable and facilitate) the actions (physical, psychological, verbal, and/or emotional abuse; lying/deceit; slander; manipulation; etc.) of a severe-BPD sufferer... It makes it very difficult for non-BPDs who are trying to escape or get help to actually be able to get support, especially from mutual friends of the BPD-sufferer (unless those friends are also fully-cognizant of the BPD-sufferer's condition, in which case they can be very good support). My good friend, for instance, might benefit from knowing that there are others who have been through exactly what she has gone through. I can offer my insights from my own personal experiences, although I was never in a relationship as long and profound as she was in with a BPD-sufferer.

Bleh, I guess I'm looking for support too, as a friend of a non-BPD, from other friends of non-BPDs...

The borderline personality person in my life is "Cici", my partner"Susie"'s best friend. As you can see, these are not their real names.

This BP person is not my mate, is not my family member... yet I feelas if she lives with me, because of how intimately involved she iswith my partner. I'm tired of dealing with this person, of having herin my life, but as long as I have Susie (who is the love of my life)in my life, Cici will probably be there too. Cici is also ournext-door neighbor!!

Cici and Susie have known each other since Susie was 16. Cici wasthere when Susie's mom died, when Susie went through a period oflosing every person close to her. Indeed, Cici is the only personclose in Susie's life, other than me. Susie and Cici have a co-dependant friendship; Susie believes she'll have nobody if she ever cuts off Cici! Yet she dreams about it every day. We even talk about moving out of state.

They have relied on each other for almost 15 years, and shared allkinds of things. They shared use of a car until recently. They lookafter each other's dogs.

Susie feels that there would be no one, if it weren't for Cici. Myopinion is that Cici is the reason there is no one else. What I'veseen is that Susie will make a friend, then suddenly Cici will be thatfriend's new best friend, and then Cici will start talking aboutSusie's most personal business... then, suddenly, Cici will have a newfriend and Susie will lose a friend.

This sounds like high school stuff.

Can you believe I'm 33, Cici is 40, and Susie is 30?

All of the neighbors, everyone who has ever met Susie, knows her mostpersonal, intimate business because of Cici. Cici tells everyone. Whenconfronted, she denies it.

Everyone naturally believes Cici. She always comes out smelling like arose. If you confront her, you'll be the one who looks bad. "Oh my godwhy are you yelling at me?"She never remembers a single thing she did, a single thing she said,even after she's told the entire neighborhood that you are greedy,manipulative and a user (which she told people about *me*) or that youhave a mental illness and are completely reliant on her (which shetold people about Susie). And you will always look bad.

Everyone loves Cici. She's the life of the party. Only people REALLYclose to her see how evil she is. And those people are never believed."How could you believe that about Cici? I adore her!"

Recently, Cici turned on me.

She's started to act as if she's trying to break up Susie's and myrelationship. She started getting angry about the time Susie spendswith me (Susie and I live together). She gets angry that she doesn'tget invited when Susie and I go on dates. She tells Susie that I ambasically cheating on her with my male best friend (WHO IS GAY). Shetells Susie that I am a user, that I don't have a job (I do have ajob). Susie knows these are not true. They aren't lies: Cici believesthem! Susie and Cici invariably end up having a fight which leads toCici yelling and Susie telling her to get out of her house and nottreat her like that. The next day, they'll be back to square one.Nothing ever changes.

I don't talk to Cici, because anything I say will get twisted around.If she comes in and sees me on the computer, and hears me complainingabout my job (EVERYONE complains about their job), suddenly it means Iwant to not work, have Susie support me, and I want to stay home andplay video games all day long.

Every time Susie and Cici are together, Cici says negative thingsabout our relationship.

I'm sick to death of Cici. Recently there was a confrontation. I havea long fuse; I put up with a lot until the final moment when I finallylose it, have a loud confrontation, then never speak to the personagain. This moment happened with Cici.

She crossed the line.

Up until recently, I did not know she was talking about me. She worksat a job that I was offered. I thought she was my friend. It turns outthat she has been telling the boss all the bad things about me thatshe believes. Of course, I'm not going to take that job now.

I just found this community, and I'm going to spend some time reading back and looking through the memories but I wanted to see if there were any other adult children of BPD parents here that are still active. Anyone out there?

Hi. I'm Cole and I'm 20. My fiancée is 21 and we believe that she has BPD.

She hasn't gotten it completely diagnosed yet. Her last therapist was wonderful until she had mentioned that she thinks she has BPD, at which point her therapist agreed that she probably has it, but then stopped actually helping her and making appointments harder and not really listening to her. We think that her last therapist probably had a little red flag go up and was unwilling to have a patient with BPD.

My fiancée's mother looks down on the idea of mental diseases and medications to help them, which makes it hard for her to get a therapist at the present moment. We're hoping to find one for her this summer so she'll have someone to go to when we go back to college.

I love her deeply, but it gets frustrating sometimes. I guess I'm kind of relieved to know that there's a reason behind her actions (mainly the going from REALLY sweet to suddenly VERY angry at me for absolutely no reason).

I dunno. I guess I'm just looking for some other non-BPD partners to relate to. I don't have it, but I do have depression (which, mixing a BP and depressed can be quite hard on a relationship).

I myself am not a BP but I am the girlfriend of one. He's 18 soon to be 19 and he's the most intelligent, talented, and beautiful person i know. He hasnt been formally diagnosed yet probably because of his age and his psychiatrist doesnt feel its BPD although his therapist and everyone else admantly think it is. He's on Zoloft, Geodon, and Zanax for his anxiety attacks.

Usually his downspells dont last more than 2 days at most. He's been in one for 2 weeks now. He's miserable and sees himself as worthless and life as pointless. In his black and white life he believes nothing ever changes people dont change. He doesnt know what he wants in life and has never known. He can't even remember anymore what he used to do to be happy. He doesn't even want to get out of bed. Every coping technique he uses is one that does more dammage than healing.

Things took a turn for the better 2 days ago he had himself admitted to ur local behavorial health center for a week. Im scared and worried but I know its for the best.

I love him so much and Id like this relationship to last years. But BPD defnitely has a negative influence on it. My bf is so torn he wants to be with me but at the sametime his afraid of spending his life with just one person. he says at times he wants to eb a cat ladhy.

I guess I've come here looking for advice and support. Id like to know what to do to help him when he gets down.

hi, im new here...my partner has been diognosed with bpd and im looking to meet others who are in the same boat.. i will be posting here, so i just wanted to introduce myself...also, i hope its okay to promote other communities here, and if it isnt just let me know...i created a community specifically for LGBT partners of those who have been diagnosed with bpd, so if anyone would like to check it out, please do...thanks, betsyhttp://community.livejournal.com/lgbt_bpdpartner/profile

first of all, thanks to everyone who made recommendations in my earlier post. i will be going on a book-buying spree shortly. =D

my questions in this post are three-fold.

1. depression vs. BPD: how much of a difference is there? considering that bipolar a "kind" of depression, i imagine not much, but still. mistype. my brain replaced "bipolar" as "borderline." original question of depression vs. borderline personality disorder still stands. she has been "officially diagnosed" as depressed by a therapist, and while i realize i am OBVIOUSLY not a professional, she still has some...behaviour that seems to me to be not just depression. :: shrugs :: but hey, i'm not a professional.

2. has anyone had experiences with Prozac? i understand that withdrawal can be extremely dangerous, and i AM concerned about that. i'm also wondering how effectively it treats the condition. (i know it's an SSRI and all of that jazz, i mean does it make you better as opposed to "better.") she has recently begun cutting again and i am afraid of medication making her even MORE prone to self-harm.

3. how can i help, for lack of a better word. i want to make it clear that i care about her and don't want her to hurt herself, but i don't know how to. when i ask how she's doing and such, my responses sound very robotic and just "out of politeness." (or at least they do to me, but there's no other way i know how to respond.) i ask WHY she feels down or WHAT is making her upset and she just says "i don't know" and then kind of ignores me. is that kind of questioning counterproductive?

hello, i am a non (yes) and one of my friends, i'm 90% sure, has BPD. her family psychiatrist diagnosed her with OCD, but BPD seems to me to fit a lot better. i have a dilemma that i posted about in borderline but it seems to not be generating too much of a response (perhaps because i'm a non =/ ), so i'll post a permalink to the entry for your perusing pleasure. i realize now it's kind of long, but i would really appreciate the input. kinda long, sorry.

in addition to that whatnot, are there any books on BPD you guys could recommend that might lend some more insight to my situation?

also, this is an alternate journal and not my regular one (i feel kind of shifty creating this account specifically for bpd-related things) but said friend also has an LJ and i don't want to run the risk of her catching my solicitations for advice and viewing them as an attack on her (which i perceive as being a likely scenario). if you want to,you can pop on over to cactus_rs to get more info, or just ask in here.

My mother just asked me if errorval and I were satanists, or into sacrifice. I was astonished, "How in the world could you think that?" "'Cos of all the black, your pendant, & all the creepy art/stuff you take pictures of."(I have been wearing black since about age 12, and have heard it ALL- and still uh, just like to wear black.)"Mother, frankly I am offended that you would think such things about me". Ridiculous!

Had an intense hour-and-a-half phone conversation tonight with my boyfriend, who has BPD. (We've only been dating a couple months, though it's been intense - and I am only beginning to recognize the impact the illness has had on our problems.) He said it was the longest phone convo he's had in 10 years.

We covered a lot of ground and cleared up some key misunderstandings. Every now and then I could feel his defensive walls beginning to rise, but I managed to keep control over myself, and the conversation also did not spiral out of control. (The triggers did not get set off this time.) That "Walking on Eggshells" book, which I sped thru last nite, must already be helping!

It's interesting, I was able to nudge my way past the walls just a little bit, for the first time. Here and there, he seemed to make an admission of vulnerability that he didn't want to concede. There's still a lot of denial - he seems reluctant to accept the reality of the disorder's presence; it floats in and out, with him sometimes alluding to it as an accepted fact that has impacted him and other times seeming to question the diagnosis or its significance/effects. It's the darndest thing. But all I know is, it seems to make a lot of sense to ME, and *I* seem to perceive it more in his behavior than he does. (That doesn't mean I'm right. But of course I think I'm right - because I always am. *grin* I wish...)

I'm just proud of myself for managing to keep my cool and not push the walls right up to the ceiling (and get spikes coming out of the walls, on top of it!) by getting upset. I didn't push him too hard, but I did express my opinions gently but confidently when I disagreed, as advised in the book. I'm realistic enough to not expect him to fully embrace a disorder that he has shied away from for 42-some years, overnight, just because I pinpoint it as an important issue. I've given him food for thought. Hopefully he'll follow through on therapy, and the expert will know the way to help him swallow it, as needed.

Meanwhile, if I'm able to handle situations as well as I think I did tonight, then there might be some hope for us yet. It was a real challenge for me, though. I'm bipolar myself, with a number of BPD-type traits myself, so keeping my cool under stress is not something I'm used to.

Last night at about 9:30 I got a phone call from my friend in RI ~~ on my cell phone cause I'd been checking my e-mail ~~ and I'd gone in my room & closed my door. The cat was scratching at my bedroom door (excuse any dyslexic errors I might have, I'm exhausted & have already caught three of them) so I let her in. I got off the phone at about ten, turned the light off & opened the door a little so that the cat could leave if she wanted to & went to bed. About 10 minutes later my mother comes in the room and wants to know if I'm off the phone & if I'm going to let the cat stay in my room. First off, what right does she have to come into my room late at night and ask this stuff, and second off, if I'm in bed & the cat is sleeping on my bed isn't that kinda obvious?

I asked her about it this morning and she gave me a blank look. then she says, "I can't tell if your light's on when the door's closed." (me, upset) "my door was open!" (her) "Oh....I promise I won't do it again." (me, near tears) "That's what you said last time!"

...currently we're in one of the 'good' time (ie we're kinda getting along, I do as I'm told & no worries) but this kind of thing hurts. She's told me time and again that she's going to respect my privacy, that I'm a mature adult (and tried to kick me out half a dozen times for it, but she never lets me get out the door) etc etc etc and then she does somethig like this...(this is the second time this month she's done it. It's a new thing. I wake up whenever my bedroom door opens so I'm more or less always awake when she gets in). At least there wasn't anything like Easter Sunday or when I was on spring break, but darn it, doesn't she understand that this stuff hurts? She goes on and on about this girl at work (you'd think that girl was her daughter and not me) always telling me how good she is, how pretty, etc. *shakes head* What is it about me that she hates?

I have jsut discovered this LJ, and I need advice badly. have already gotten a lot from BPDcentral amd friends. I am in the middle of an embroiling situation with my ex-GF and mother of our child, who has BPD, and as I write this, I am sitting in my mother's apartment, afraid to go home.

It would take too long to explain everything from the beginning, but the gist of it is that the separation has been several months in the making, but the situation between us is not without its pitfalls. She believes me to be an abuser of our daughter, and an incident this morning culminated in a dangerous situation which caused me to leave the premises later.

I would like to point out that our relationship as common law spouses was not without its physical confrontations on both sides, but the allegations she makes about me regarding our daughter are untrue. I will also admit that I am not as useful a parental unit as I should be, although I cannot say how much of that is is a result of hings that she has said to me that became self-fulfilling prophesies. Suffice it say that I have never abused my daughter, but occasionally I become frustrated with her.

1) I did not throw Drew. I was picking her up to get her ready for a bottle, but then she bucked and fell from a standing position onto a pillow on the bed.

2) My rememberance is that my ex was not looking directly at her when this happened, and may have even had her back turned at the time. The memory is hazy though, in hindsight.

The end result of all of this was me leaving the apartment, and some time later, a lenghty MSN conversation took place between us, the bulk of which was her trying various tactics to get me to come home, saying I stole her mother's allowance check (the money goes into my account, but I did use it for groceries for the house, diapers, formula and wipes), threatening to call the police on me (it was a bluff) and insinuating that she needed to go to a hospital and that I needed to come home and care for Drew.

My problem is this: I resisted the idea of coming home on many fronts. One because I didn't feel safe with her, two because there was a terrible thunderstorm out, and three because I left home without enough money to get back. There are other reasons as well, not the least of which was, in spite of her feelings that she could not take care of drew properly, I knew she would not do anything to harm Drew (after all I'm the one she wants to hurt, not her). Drew for her part was upset becuase her mother was upset, but me going home and getting in another argument would not be any better. And that would certainly happen, since she never lets things lie, especially.

There is a lot more to say, but I will provide more specific info when the replies come in. THe way we left it was her telling me I had 3 days to get my stuff out of the apartment, or she was gonna chuck everything of mine (even though that's illegal). For the last 2 hours I have had no contact with her.

I need to be away from her, but of course she seems unstable at the moment, and will no doubt hold Drew and her idea of my abuse of her over my head for all time. I did nothing. I appeal to anyone for something helpful so I can stop having this anxiety attack about what she might do.

I have already been told that I should talk to a lawyer ASAP, as well as a counsellor, and have decided to do so. Just looking for some additional support I guess.

I've recently been having problems with a friend of mine. We've been friends on and off all through our lives. Just in the last few months many things have been going on in my life and I have been getting counseling. Well, then I started having problems again with my friend, her name is Mary, and it got particularly nasty so I brought it up in one of my sessions. I know it isn't an official diagnosis but the counselor suggested that I read "Walking on Eggshells." And I immediately went out and got it to read.

I am totally amazed at the similarities of her behavior and the way I've been feeling for years. I'm totally shocked that I've been taking it for so long and that she is feeding off it. Today in particular, she is so totally pushing all my buttons and making the biggest scenes. It is embarassing. And not only that, I just want to walk away after telling her to kiss my ass so bad but I know it won't even do any good. What is worse is that some of my other friends are also friends with her and they are all completely convinced that it is all in my head.

It is the biggest frustration of my life. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Does anyone here know what this feels like?

'This is my thoughts about her post first"To me it is obvious she feeds off any and all attention. I just let her do whatever since she thinks we are trash and she is way above us since she lives with her boyfriend and his family,his dads a professor. I say that while she was home she might not have been surrounded by IQs and PHDs but we had morals and love and would have directed her away from stripping. Its been 2 years that she's lived with them. She's watched the oldest son in the family be accused of rape and now my daughter is doing the cage thing!! I feel sorry for the 14/15 year old girl that still lives in the home. I hope she's ok after all this. Just read the excert below and remember this was Miss Norman of Tomorrow, Pom Captain, class president 3 years, all around state gymnast, scholarship winner for church camp, Miss Acrodance Oklahoma, 3 years homecoming queen and the list goes on and on. You can't say she didn't at one time have dreams and that we didn't give every dime and minute we had to support her. I have not one regret for the time and money spent. I only wish I would have helped her to develope her inner self through volunteering and giving to others. You can tell that all that drives her at this point is "who is noticing me." I've been the one that notices when she is hurting even though she puts on that fake smile so no one else knows, I notice when her when she drives by and tries to ignore me but I know her eyes are looking through her sunglasses and see the tears streaming from my eyes.I love her no matter what but that just isn't enough and she just can't except my love. Someday....maybe someday....By the way my daughter just turned 19.

This is a post from my daughter in her on line journal5th April 20049:31am: Cage Dancer...oh yeah...Yes, it's been forever since I have updated my journal...sorry ya'll. Life is crazy as usual...school, work...being a cage dancer for Kid Rock...lol. So here's the deal. I was at work on Saturday and this guy (Steve) came up and asked me if I liked Kid Rock. I said "Yeah, I guess", assuming he was trying to sell me tickets. To my surprise the next thing he asked is if I wanted to be a dancer for his show that night for $75. I asked if he was serious...he was, so I said sure. He asked if I had stretch marks, tattoos, and asked about my bra size. No tattoos or stretch marks...I fit the bill. He called up the manager and set a time and place for me to meet him, so I could be looked over before the show to make sure I was what they were looking for. I asked Steve why he was at Sooner Mall trying to find a dancer for the show...apparently 3 of the dancers at Kid Rocks last show pissed him off, becuase they were too busy watching him instead of playing to the crowd...so he fired them! Steve told me to get 2 bikinis and some stillhetto heels and meet him and his manager (Keith) at Martini Lounge at 5. I got there, met the man. He told me to stand up, turn around, and then he said "Perfect". From there we went to the Ford Center. Parked in the VIP section, went through security, got backstage/dancer passes, and I started getting ready. I met the other girls a couple of hours later. It was really great. I met the actual show/tour producers for Kid Rock. They were great. They also ran the American Idol tour...which I saw. They said Clay Aiken was so full of himself, lol. Anywho-I put on my red bikini and heels. The other gals had on bikinis and heels, too. I did thier body make-up, hehe. Painted on abs and accentuated thier breasts with eye shadow and blush. How funny, huh? I am back stage at Kid Rocks concert painting strippers up while they are guzzling Vodka and popping pills, lol! Shortly after the other gals got there we were briefed on what to do. There were two cages with stripper poles in them...there would be 2 girls in each cage during specific songs during the show. I went in during the second song...it was incredible! I felt so shy backstage in my bikini, but on stage I felt dead sexy! It was great! AHHHH!!! Ryan was understandabley not thrilled about the situation...but he did come to the show to watch over/support me even though he isn't a Kid Rock fan at all. I was really happy that he was there. He said that I was the best little whore up there...lol. He was really understanding...he knew I was just doing my job. It was a friggin' blast. After teh show, we all got dressed and met Kidd Rock and Fuel. Kid forgot to take his anti-inflammatory pills b4 the show, so he was sitting down, icing his knees. Poor guy. He was really nice though, very down to Earth. I thanked him and let him know that I had a good time. And I got up to leave and meet Ryan at Bricktown Live. On my way out, I saw Stephanie (the drummer for KR). I was so thrilled to meet her...(oh by the way, I play the drums now, lol...I have my own kit and have been playing for a few months). She was so friggin' awesome. And short! She was like 2 inches shorter than me! She used ot be a bassist until her buddies found out she could play teh drums...she told me, as a woman to stick with the drums. If I do that I will never be out of a job. Great advice...I'm gonna follow it. After I got out of there, I went to Bricktown Live. It was a $5 cover and I didn't have my cash on me...so I asked the door man if there was any way that I could just go in to look for my b/f. He stopped me and said..."Wait, you were the dancer in the red bikini, weren't you?" I said yes, and he said to go on in. LOL Found Ryan, we went back to Norman...I had a hella head-ache from the pyro and explosions...we stopped at 7-11 to grab a snack and this fella ina white truck pulled up next to me and started freakin' out. He started motioning that he had been at the concert and recognized me...it was too funny! I called up the KATT this morn, becuase they were talking about the dancers and were wondering how they got the gig...so I chit-chatted with those fellas a little. I even plugged Lazarus 4, hehe. It was a good convo, too. Well, that was my big story for the next few months...enjoy! And if you saw the blonde cage dancer in the red bikini, that was soooo me!

In my LJ personal journal people think I'm harsh when they read how I am dealing with my daughter. I posted this to try and explain why I am starting to let go and trying to toughin up.. Feel free to go to my personal live journal at pottstonya if you can add to help people understand what we go thru. I have had some special : ( emails that say I'm a cold hearted bitch for turning away my daughter. They don't get it that she left us. Here is what I wrote as a response. They have no idea the heart break and suffering I have and continue to go thru. Death would be easier. Thank God for this community. Tonya

Sorry that you stepped into my journal at a time when I seemed like such a harsh b----. The bpd that my daughter has has all but destroyed our family. My husband mention her being stupid just to me because he had just told me, " Honey why don't you go give her a hug?" I said no because out of 2 years we have been to the mall 3 times and each time she calls security to follow us around. Its a victimization thing for her. My husband knows how many nights I've ciover losing my daughter to this illness and just was disgusted that its still going on and tried to make me feel beter by saying she wasupid fd the whole security thing. He never told her she was stupid,it this would be easier if she was. We have watched one of the most gifted individuals spiral down over the last two years and because of her perception of things we were blacked out of her life. If I keep trying to hep contact her in anyway I just get hurt. I was finally put in the hospital and battled with a lung disease and an autoimmune disorder that almost took my life. The Dr. say the long term stress from greiving over my daughter would finally kill me if I didn't let her bottom out and quit worrying about her. The entry you read was an entry that I was trying desperately to be tough and let go. Trust me the words are not my true feelings and just when I feel like I have gotten tough I cry for days at time. I miss my daughter so mcat it hurts to the point if I thought that I could cash in my life so she could be happy I would. The words I wrote were not my true feelings, I'm not cold, just very hurt and desperate to have my lil girl back someday. I'm just trying all angles to emotionally work through this hell on earth with a child that is so loved that seems to hate us.

I took a break from writing but there are somethings I'd like to share. I got a new puppy this week end and that kept me very busy. I am thankful for this because if I hadn't had the puppy this weekend could have been heart breaking. Let me explain, I have a friend that gets me free tickets to the concerts in Oklahoma. She works at the Ford Center where all of the big concerts are held. This weekend Kid Rock was one tour there. I like some of his songs and I had planned on going till the puppy arrived so I declined, thank God. At the concert I was informed that Kid Rock had strippers that danced on a pole in a cage and danced with each other in a very sleazy way. That alone was bad enough but I was also told by our nail tech that he gets the strippers by sending guys out to the strip bars and recruits local strippers. The nail techs son owns a strip club so I take her word. I then was told that my daughter was one of the strippers on stage. Several people saw her and told me how bad it was. It breaks my heart to know that she has lowered herself to this point at 19. She is very talented and this is her way of gaining the much needed attention that her mental illness requires. I checked on the internet and it verified how they get the girls that wear bikinis from. I just look at it as this is just another step toward the bottom so she will someday bottom out and see that she needs help. It amazes me how proud this child is of her poor choices in life. She knows better than this and it just verifies to all that she has a problem. I hope she pulls it together. Tonya