Actually my silver cans last a long time. 3-6 months racing 2x's a week. It's the black cans that die all the time. However that still doesnt fix the problem with the variance in speed. Silver cans are not all created equally and the ez run system is the least expensive way to even the playing field.

If you went to the car dealer and bought a car and it came with 127 horsepower and some other guy bought one, paid the same money and got 167 horsies you'd be pissed. That's the same thing happening here. You cant expect to race and beat him if your even close to the same in skill.

I hear what you are saying and I have raced the mini for 5 years now, including 3 tcs events.
Changing the motor , speedo and such is NOT the way to build this class of racing. If the the difference in horse power is the issue why not go about leveling the playing field in a more cost controlled way like limiting the rpm's that the motor can run?
There were a number of tcs races this year that did just that. That seemed to take the super motors off the track.
It's not that I oppose the motor and speedo set you suggest but think of it on this manner: your say 18 19 years old and you have a part time job and want to get into some form of racing and lo and behold to get into this basic class you need to drop $300 just to race. Now if the class was as it is now you could get into it for atleast $100 less.
If you have raced as long as you have stated(not calling you a liar), myself I have been at this since 1982, then you know that there is allways goin' to be those people that no matter what the rules say they are going to be the fast guys,not just because they have the latest greatest motor but mainly because they understand the car they race and they work consistantly(sp?)
on there set up and the handling of the car. My best motor turns less than
15k rpms and i can still keep up with the leaders, because I keep my car fresh and i work at the set up all the time.I would hate to see this class die because of a rule change that will make entry in this class too expensive. Just my opinion. Now back to your regular scheduled program already in progress

__________________
MERLIN RACING
"He once ran a marathon because it was on his way"
Logic is a lost art!
You are defined in life by how you respond to defeat!

I know myself and others included spend a small fortune on parts for our mini's to be competitive in the mini class. I know that when we were running sport tuned motors that we all had 6 to 10 to find two or three good ones and we all had $300 plus speedies fitted in our cars. Comes back to how competitive you want to be.

Here we are talking about BL systems versus brushed systems, what about mini tyres and inserts.

At the end of the day you can not keep everybody happy. Run what you are happy to run. Mini may have started as a cheap class, however that changed years ago. Our current rules allow for BL systems and sport tuned to run together, however you will find not many running brushed.

The mini class has evolved and will continue to evolve. It is so good to see such healthy debate, but we have definately seen a huge increase in numbers running mini, as the BL system has taken away the variation in motors and made the racing closer. As usual the fast guy's will dominate, due to better driving skills and car setup.

Australia is happy that the changes to the mini rules have been justified by the higher numbers participating in mini at both club and higher events.

Anyway enough of my waffle. My opinion only, I think others are aware of the inequality of brushed motors and want to investigate an alternate motor source.

For people like me buying a kit with a motor and esc for around a $100 is great. When I have spend another $100 to $130 for a brushless system then I won't run in the TCS. I've already been priced out of the GT2 class. I think that if a change was made in this direction there will be less than 50 or 60 minis you know see at the TCS races. Look at the success of the Slash spec classes throughout the country. It's a good priced item with a lot of durability and people have fun with them. Which is also true of the mini.

This thread is definitely concentrating two different types of racers and the most annoying are those who think everybody wants to race minis. You need to realise a lot of the mini buying customers are tehre just becasue they can buy a kit and be ont he track the next afternoon, not because any other reason. You are addicted to it, good for you. That doesn't mean it is cheap (in your case). For everybody else that's what it is. Cheap fun class to race with little tunning headache (especially compared to TC sedan).

About silvercans, nobody worries that much to runt hem in and so on. Yes, I read all the pages in this thread and learned about the gurus with red dot this and that and so on and couldn't care less. I don't race minis, by the way. But I do race si 50 class and since we allow black cans, that's what I race. And yes, I agree they last less than a silver can but they are faster. That's my one concession to being compstitive. Now my black cans last me one leg (10 races) of the championship and I thikn that's pretty good for around 30$ (again, i don't care what these motors cost at your shop, that's what tehy cost here where I buy them). Compared to a hobbywing system (again I don't care about your prices) which is 170$ here, that means you need the BL system to last you two years to be worthwhile (even with your prices the ratio is near enough the same). Now, in two years, electronics can evolve so far, your system (speedy + motor) might be totally obsolete by then or even out of date in six months. Sure for addicted people who think the world evolution has stopped at the mini this doesn't matter. For the rest of us it does, and comments abound here to support this statement.

So why run brushless? When you can buy a RTR kit made by Tamiya for I am not sure here, (perhaps about 300$ last time I had the curiosity to check) and it has everything, speedy, radio, battery, the car is all built and ready to go!

this is why your class took off over int he east. And I think not everybody ahs adopted your rules about the BL system. we will have the guys from Sydney here in spetember and talk to them again, but as far as I heard they won't allow anything but silvercans in minis. I could very well be wrong, as my info is not first hand, I realise, but even they did adopt these rules the change is recent.

Some of you argue the shift to BL systems is a result of changing times (read technology) others still argue is a sign of people trying to level the playing field, etc. I think there is some of that in it, but not the main factor. My opinion is that if indeed numbers have exploded as some of you say, then above all it is a sign of people having more disposable income until a year or so ago because of various economic factors (stronger economy, stronger currency, etc). If this is not a factor, (and then perhaps statements about the class "exploding" need to be re-examined) then all the people running minis are die hard fans and no rule applies. They'll spend anything, they'll buy anything, they'll kill anything to satisfy their addiction. But that is not relevant to the average hobbyist out for fun. How many of these (addicted) people can there be?

Time will tell. Let us wait the crisis to finish and we'll count the chickens then.

For people like me buying a kit with a motor and esc for around a $100 is great. When I have spend another $100 to $130 for a brushless system then I won't run in the TCS. I've already been priced out of the GT2 class. I think that if a change was made in this direction there will be less than 50 or 60 minis you know see at the TCS races. Look at the success of the Slash spec classes throughout the country. It's a good priced item with a lot of durability and people have fun with them. Which is also true of the mini.

That is what we are getting at with the Mini class. The complete system evens up the disparity when racing

So why run brushless? When you can buy a RTR kit made by Tamiya for I am not sure here, (perhaps about 300$ last time I had the curiosity to check) and it has everything, speedy, radio, battery, the car is all built and ready to go!

Only to get your arse handed to on a silver platter with guys that have "special" one in a hundred motors. That's enough to turn away new racers. In the TA class we race, there was some drama about some bunch of guys that were untouchable. Something is wrong when you get lapped in a silver can race when both drivers don't crash. If race organizers are really serious about keeping everything on a level playing field in silver/black can race, they need to dyno all the motors raced. If they are not willing to do so, they have no say in what should be run.

This thread is definitely concentrating two different types of racers and the most annoying are those who think everybody wants to race minis. You need to realise a lot of the mini buying customers are tehre just becasue they can buy a kit and be ont he track the next afternoon, not because any other reason. You are addicted to it, good for you. That doesn't mean it is cheap (in your case). For everybody else that's what it is. Cheap fun class to race with little tunning headache (especially compared to TC sedan).

About silvercans, nobody worries that much to runt hem in and so on. Yes, I read all the pages in this thread and learned about the gurus with red dot this and that and so on and couldn't care less. I don't race minis, by the way. But I do race si 50 class and since we allow black cans, that's what I race. And yes, I agree they last less than a silver can but they are faster. That's my one concession to being compstitive. Now my black cans last me one leg (10 races) of the championship and I thikn that's pretty good for around 30$ (again, i don't care what these motors cost at your shop, that's what tehy cost here where I buy them). Compared to a hobbywing system (again I don't care about your prices) which is 170$ here, that means you need the BL system to last you two years to be worthwhile (even with your prices the ratio is near enough the same). Now, in two years, electronics can evolve so far, your system (speedy + motor) might be totally obsolete by then or even out of date in six months. Sure for addicted people who think the world evolution has stopped at the mini this doesn't matter. For the rest of us it does, and comments abound here to support this statement.

So why run brushless? When you can buy a RTR kit made by Tamiya for I am not sure here, (perhaps about 300$ last time I had the curiosity to check) and it has everything, speedy, radio, battery, the car is all built and ready to go!

this is why your class took off over int he east. And I think not everybody ahs adopted your rules about the BL system. we will have the guys from Sydney here in spetember and talk to them again, but as far as I heard they won't allow anything but silvercans in minis. I could very well be wrong, as my info is not first hand, I realise, but even they did adopt these rules the change is recent.

Some of you argue the shift to BL systems is a result of changing times (read technology) others still argue is a sign of people trying to level the playing field, etc. I think there is some of that in it, but not the main factor. My opinion is that if indeed numbers have exploded as some of you say, then above all it is a sign of people having more disposable income until a year or so ago because of various economic factors (stronger economy, stronger currency, etc). If this is not a factor, (and then perhaps statements about the class "exploding" need to be re-examined) then all the people running minis are die hard fans and no rule applies. They'll spend anything, they'll buy anything, they'll kill anything to satisfy their addiction. But that is not relevant to the average hobbyist out for fun. How many of these (addicted) people can there be?

Time will tell. Let us wait the crisis to finish and we'll count the chickens then.

The original posting was regarding using BL systems to race Minis. Now after alkl your posts you say you dont race Minis?

You are so far out of date with information. The eastern states (NSW, QLD, VIC, SA, and ACT) have all adopted the brushless system for Mini racing. There was no silver can racing of Mini before ... only black can. Unfortunately for WA they are running a long way behind the other states. You were even later introducing lipos for race meets

As for increasing numbers ... the number of Mini racers increased dramatically straight after the BL system was introduced and is still increasing. Look at the Mini 50 event in Victoria .. 50 BL system Minis came together for one event .. you ont see that many TC cars racing in a silver can event . Why? Because of the inequality of the motors etc etc.

As I said before .. if you want to hack around then the silver can is fine for your driveway. But for equal racing ... there is only one solution .. brushless

Only to get your arse handed to on a silver platter with guys that have "special" one in a hundred motors. That's enough to turn away new racers. In the TA class we race, there was some drama about some bunch of guys that were untouchable. Something is wrong when you get lapped in a silver can race when both drivers don't crash. If race organizers are really serious about keeping everything on a level playing field in silver/black can race, they need to dyno all the motors raced. If they are not willing to do so, they have no say in what should be run.

imo, RTRs are not a good way to get into RC.

I don't mind at all deing beaten by anyone or everyone. The more so if they have an unfair advantage (which I think a "special" silvercan is - it has been discussed here at length). It is skill I value, not the technology anyone can buy given endless money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannon

The original posting was regarding using BL systems to race Minis. Now after alkl your posts you say you dont race Minis?

You are so far out of date with information. The eastern states (NSW, QLD, VIC, SA, and ACT) have all adopted the brushless system for Mini racing. There was no silver can racing of Mini before ... only black can. Unfortunately for WA they are running a long way behind the other states. You were even later introducing lipos for race meets

As for increasing numbers ... the number of Mini racers increased dramatically straight after the BL system was introduced and is still increasing. Look at the Mini 50 event in Victoria .. 50 BL system Minis came together for one event .. you ont see that many TC cars racing in a silver can event . Why? Because of the inequality of the motors etc etc.

As I said before .. if you want to hack around then the silver can is fine for your driveway. But for equal racing ... there is only one solution .. brushless

I think I said a few times I don't race minis in varioues threads including this one. it appears your infromation is not up to date. Read the posts, man, that's what they're here for.

As for my information, I admitted already it may be out of date as I am not very keen on mini racing, but even as of last week it was not clear whether or not brushless minis will be allowed at the upcoming event in Bunbury which is organised jointly by the people fron Sydney and Bunbury, but run by the east coast rules, so there you go. Again, we'll see.

As for increasing numbers, read my post above. You don't offer any reason why the numbers increased, just information about the timing of the increase in relation with what you are looking at. I argue that event (and other events before it, like the 1000 laps event they had in Mildura (memory?) and others before that, which I have to say sound very attractive, came at or just after the height of our economic boom, when our dollar was about equal to the american dollar and the highest currency against it except for the euro). That meant a mini kit from Tamiya could be had for a record low price, probably in the low 100 dollars shipped to Oz from HK or similar (RTR kits also perhaps under 300AU$ all up). Take a step back and look at the larger picture and you'll see clearer. To be more clear, I don't think anyone would spend any money on this hobby if they didn't have that money in the first place, no matter how even the playing field. These conditions are replicated somewhat right now with a very strong exchange rate against a slower economy though, so it will be interesting to see if more people keep coming to the mini class or numebrs start declining.

Another factor is that you might have a number of people dragging their minis out of retirement like I did with my old M02 car I left alone about 12 years ago. So you see, it's not as simple as saying "x many people showed up for the mini class, so the class is growing because we introduced brushless".

The increase in numbers ... racers stated that they joined because of the lower longer term expense with the introduction of the Mini was the main reason of joining. Up till then they avoided Mini because of the unreliability of the black can motors and the need to keep buying motors to be competitive. Check the RC MINI NET guys .. they would buy 20 motors to find a few decent ones

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