I liked the movie designs, out of context and with a lot of caveats. I think that's the issue.
That's why I enjoy the studio series, it's been long enough I don't have to care about the movies and just ask do I like this design and is it a good toy?

That being said, I need to stop being a collector and a just get one or two things a quarter like when I was a kid. Too many outlets, too many options. I need to cherry-pick a quest for a few things and indulge in that.

Vangelus, while I generally love your quirky viewpoints, I think you're WAY off base thinking that the 3rd parties had any idea that an expensive new MP Optimus Prime was right around the corner. Honestly, I think it's just a coincidence. Third parties saw how MP-10 didn't match the aesthetic of MP-36, and figured they could make a MP style Optimus that was a better match. Takara pays attention to the same market & came to the same conclusion.

It's the same with DX-9's & Maketoys's MP Megatrons. Both thought they could make a better MP style Megatron than X-Transbots, but Takara came to the same conclusion at roughly the same time. Takara pays attention to the market, and I suspect they at least pay attention to the 3rd party for market research, and saw the desire for a MP style Megatron.

And while there will likely be a KO of Optimus eventually, I don't think we can count on a good one. The unique faces & parts that came with Toy House Factory & Infinite Transformation indicate (to me at least) that stolen CAD files seem almost certain.

I don't have a lot of skin in the game when it comes to masterpiece because 1.) I don't care for G1 all that much and 2.) I don't want to spend that kind of money on a transformer that I don't care about. So, take this post with a grain of salt or what have you.

I have to say though that I disagree with Vangelus and his idea that Siege Optimus Prime is an okay substitute for V3 Optimus Prime. I understand where he was going with the point but Seth hit the nail on the head that I think a lot of collectors will look at Siege Prime and just think he is too cheap and too dull to be an adequate replacement for the "masterpiece aesthetic."

The only MP figure I own in the KO Voyager size MP-10. I love that figure and I think that fills in that void of masterpiece style figure but at only a fraction of the cost. Does it in some way diminish the value of full size MPs?

Maybe, but I can't help but empathize with other collectors who don't have the space or the budget to collect current MPs but don't view mainline as being a "high end" collectible that isn't made just for kids. I do feel that there should be more of a middle ground of folks like that and I wish there were more figures being made that could fit with KO MP-10V.

Heck, I'm still advocating for a line of highly detailed, very articulated, non-transforming figures that are around $40-60. The closest we're getting to that is Flame Toys model kits, but that's another issue entirely.

I appreciate that Vangelus and all the podcast guys are willing to have this discussion and I see their point but something about it all just sits with me weirdly and I can't help but think that there should be something to fill in that middle ground.

Anyways, that's my rant. Time to get back to studying for final exams.

Back in the 80's, the hot phrase was "Collect them all!" It was plastered on every package, every commercial, every promo. Gotta gotta gotta-catch-em-all!
And I took it to heart in so far as a very poor lower middle class kid could.

I remember clearly a conversation I had with my aunt over what I wanted for Christmas. I told her I wanted the Galoob A-Team set.
Her reply: "But I thought you were collecting Star Wars? Wouldn't you rather have more Star Wars toys for your collection? You really want to start another line?"
I couldn't have been more than 9 or 10 at the time and that stuck with me.

I always knew it was more than about the playtime and the stories of galactic warfare, but it was also about the checklist -- to have as many as I could afford and put on display.

I appreciate that Vangelus and all the podcast guys are willing to have this discussion and I see their point but something about it all just sits with me weirdly and I can't help but think that there should be something to fill in that middle ground.

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I think the point is that Generations is the middle ground in as much as economics and engineering realities allow for it. I don't think it's fair to look at MP-10V and declare it to be the standard bearer for the middle-ground idea. Largely, it goes back to the age-old KO arguments. Simply put, KBB just doesn't have the same overhead as HasTak -- They didn't pay for engineering, don't have to comply with regulatory agencies, don't have to market their product, etc. etc. If HasTak produced MP-10V, it would still be about $120, maybe more, since he compares well in terms of material with a car robots MP. That's not much of a middle ground, for me as the consumer or for HasTak.

I think that from HasTak's perspective, Generations (and Studio Series, for that matter) are the middle ground. Otherwise, why the relative slavish attention to detail (at least compared to Cyberverse, RID, or the main movie lines). SS Jazz, for example, has no business having the level of intricate detail and paint applications that he does...unless he's a mid-level toy intended to please collectors on a budget! If you compare a good RID/Cyberverse toy with most Generations and any Masterpiece, the tiering is obvious. Now go see how your local retailer actually stocks toys. Tons of RID/Cyberverse, a little bit of Generations/SS, and no MP.

So tl;dr --
I don't think the middle ground you describe is feasible for HasTak. Generations/SS is the middle ground, even if they don't compare as well to true MP.

So tl;dr --
I don't think the middle ground you describe is feasible for HasTak. Generations/SS is the middle ground, even if they don't compare as well to true MP.

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I can agree with most of that. I guess I struggle to accept that HasTak would charge $120 for their version of MP-10V but how they decide to price their products is well outside my realm of expertise. And you make a good point that KBB doesn't have nearly the same costs that HasTak does which does factor into what type of price tag a product gets.

Maybe my post was a little too specific and made it seem like I wanted a middle ground from specifically HasTak. Personally, I'd be happy if any company (official or 3rd Party) tried to make more figures that fit into the MP-10V aesthetic. However, I'm quickly realizing that all of this is basically me standing on a soap box and saying, "This is something I like and I don't understand why it doesn't exist." Ultimately, it doesn't really solve any problems.

You might be right that HasTak's solution to this middle ground is the Generations Line and if they feel like that is producing the results they want then I can't really blame them. It ultimately just proves that I'm just not the customer that HasTak is aiming for.

I think an easy positive thing to overlook in the current era (I forget it constantly when I focus in a bit hard on one thing) is like, we often actually have example pieces to cite as "I bought this and I wish there was more of it!" Rather than simply feeling unhappy or unsatisfied with intended mainline product & having to kinda leave it at that.

I think an easy positive thing to overlook in the current era (I forget it constantly when I focus in a bit hard on one thing) is like, we often actually have example pieces to cite as "I bought this and I wish there was more of it!" Rather than simply feeling unhappy or unsatisfied with intended mainline product & having to kinda leave it at that.

I dunno if that makes sense

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Transformers as a franchise is in a very unique spot right now with all of the options that we have to buy what we want.

I don't really follow a franchise besides transformers so I cannot speak to what their collecting is like but it seems like Transformers is one of the few brands that has a rich 3rd party scene that is willing to give us products that offical HasTak wouldn't.

So even if there are gaps or holes in the market, we as a fanbase are still very privileged to have as many options as we do.

As you said in the beginning of the podcast, I'm a normal dude with a normal job and I don't think I'll be able to afford the new MP Prime. A lite version would be awesome. I would even hope for a lite Toys R Us release, but I'm in the states. So I guess that's out.

So even if there are gaps or holes in the market, we as a fanbase are still very privileged to have as many options as we do.

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Privilege, indeed. I'm an old G1-er that just recently started collecting again (2016). So my experience has been a bit of a time warp. I very much appreciate where we are now. We have KNEES! and ELBOWS!

That said, if I can make a somewhat sideways comment that's related. I do desperately miss the (to use a Vangelus term) handfeel of the old toys -- The heft, the diecast, the rubber wheels! So if there's a "middle tier" that I long for, it's simply upscaling the build quality. Keep the current designs and poseability, show-accurate or not, but just use better plastics, real metal, rubber wheels (of the non-disintegrating kind!). Heck, they can even keep the hollowness -- the hollow forearms and calves. Just upgrade the materials! I'll easily pay a "Takara Tax" for this. I've even picked up Takara releases, paid the 100% up-charge, for figures that at least look like they're better made.

Unfortunately toys are not a regulated market and in a capitalist society, Takara Tomy is within their rights to price their product at the level it is. It then comes down to we the consumers and where we stand on this new price change. Factors of the high cost could be numerous but ultimately its a matter of what the target audience is. Seth and Vangelus have started to get into tabletop again so they would know the insane pricing conventions made by companies like Games Workshop whom also have another insanely priced "premium" sub-line called Forge World. And I sometimes outright wonder who the heck buys all this stuff?

Same with Bowen Statues I see in the Comics store, priced anywhere between 500 to a 1000 bucks. Who buys this stuff? Someone has to be if they can still sustain their company.

Pricing out the consumer sucks. But let's not kid ourselves. There was a period of time in the hey-day of early 3rd party where fans where buying toys at just as exorbitant prices. I think the shock comes from the fact that this is a price point coming from Takara Tomy which a vast majority of fans do not expect prices like that for, especially on a character like Optimus Prime whom everyone would want.