It does seem to be exactly what I'm looking for in terms of functionality. Extremely slow on my end, though - 25 seconds to load the page, and as I type this post I still get an uploading GFX thingie on that 94kb zip.

Total recall: I expected something more sci-fi like... Total Recall (the movie) heh. It was a great map cannonball! Nice to see you doing maps while you're not speed running. I like that map as it is.

Unleash the fire: Holy shit what an annoying midi that was. Seriously... You should think twice about using sucky metal songs in midi format cause it just sounds horrible. Come to think of it, it also drags down the overall impression of the map.

The gameplay on the other hand was quite nice. I really liked the cyberdemon room with all the crushers. Inventive and quite a challenge mid-way through the map. The imp/PE room was a bit too easy IMO. You should consider removing some BFG ammo and replace it with SSG and RL ammo for that fight. Oh, and change that midi ;)

Total remix: Who is that mysterious PM'er? When I played it and gave that bumpy floor a spin I couldn't help but chuckle thinking about your "bumpy issues" hah.

Total Recall - consider this the final version of the map
Difficulties settings added, easy should be ok to play by anyone pretty much, thinned out the most damaging monsters.
Hurt Me plenty has slightly less monsters just more for movement really. (just a few monsters, but the worst ones are still present)
Co-op starts added.
Unless anyone has any problems, or if anyone thinks the invulnerability should be reinstated on UV, this map is finished :)http://www.mediafire.com/?lgmo12kz0e1t7km
And cheers for all the positive feedback.
I will probably rework my other map I did ages back to get it up to standard and sorry dannebubinga it's not a wild west themed map like it's namesake :P

I don't want to be a party pooper, elmle, but I thought your maps play really haphazardly. Maybe guys here want to be nice and maybe they like them but don't say a word and I'm the awkward one. "Lost" map felt to me like a mockery of whole slaughter genre, that map with bunch of invulnerabilities is just uninspired and boring (take invul, shoot, restock, repeat x bazillion ... urgh), stairway map might have potential but with different monster placement, as it is now you can just run up without caring about anything below and the usage of monsters on top is also meh. I didn't try the 4th map. The one you've posted recently also feels as haphazard as the rest. You also have a tendency to make switchthunts, and I've never ever said that about any map so far. That column with switches in stairway map is probably the most annoying usage of switches in doom I've ever seen so far. Secrets are also unnecessarily complex and filled with monsters to the point that it's better not to even bother trying to find them, because the reward can be as much as a simple invisibility sphere. But hey, your layouts are good tbh and it might be possible to make something out of them, unlike DH's 1layer/2texture mostly untested maps that made it to sf2011 because we had to rush it (I didn't try his sf2012 maps besides bane so I don't want to do him injustice, but I wouldn't put my hopes too high). To be honest, I'd rather wait a few years for sf2012 to get released until map slots get filled by maps from ToD/gmork/Phml/.../, because they mainly have gameplay in mind, which is over 90% requirement of good slaughtermap. Again, I do state that it might be only me, so unless someone with simillar feelings come up, you can take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I will fess up, tried Stairway To Helven and didn't like it too much, running past everything up until that part with the cyberdemons and then getting bored at having to kill those stuck inside that small structure. I tend to not comment on maps I don't enjoy (not to say I dislike every map I haven't said a word on, haven't tried everything yet).

It's interesting you post this now. Lately I've had private conversations about SF as a whole, sort of related. Having everyone come in and do their thing is great for experimentation and allows for interesting ideas. I wouldn't want to change that. At the same time, just accepting everything as is can be discouraging to those of us who would like to shoot for a higher quality megawad and a more cohesive experience as a whole.

Another thing I have to admit: I don't plan to make any other map for SF2012. I might eventually, but it's not planned. Part of it is due to my interest diverging to other stuff, be it dehacked gameplay changes, non-slaughter gameplay or even other games (Wrack, specifically), but it's possible the above situation also plays a part.

Giving overwhelmingly negative feedback is never a fun thing and likely everyone would rather map or play than be the "bad" guy. Just as well, there might be the sentiment organisation is a chore and that putting certain maps above others might be in poor taste. Still, seeing as we're barely reaching the middle of the year and already have 26 maps, it's a discussion worth having now. Do we want quality control, and how do we want it exactly?

Personally, I don't think we'd want to outright reject maps, the goal isn't to discourage people from participating but rather to find a happy medium; besides, I don't want to claim to speak for anyone else but I sometimes find value even in maps I don't have fun playing. Perhaps each person involved could, by the end of the year, vote on maps they like and maps they dislike, tally up and set up different megawads accordingly. Perhaps we should not get stuck on the 32 maps number and just have the main wad with whatever number of great maps there are, regardless if it's 32, 20 or 10 (I feel there's already more than 10 great maps here anyway).

Regarding sf2011, I don't mean the system is bad, but the finished product will suffer from it. You get a masterpiece that took month(s) to tweak next to untested speedmaps, except some potential player doesn't even get to see the masterpiece because he idcleved to the speedmap, followed by ragequit. Another thing would be the idea to couple maps by author, which just adds to scaring off potential slaughter enthusiast. GoS's maps were terribly brutal for early slots, and even if his maps would in the end become as the first to show up in the wad, I'd sort them the way to add a little more progressive feel of difficulty. I know pretty much nobody of authors of sf care about that, but vast majority of non-us does.

How to solve the first issue is something I haven't a slightest idea about. We could keep at it and just make sure every map is completable and again sink great maps between mediocre. I had an idea we could maybe once/if sf2013 or so gets done pull the chosen best bunch out of sfs made so far and pile them into a single wad. It might seem awkward, but I don't have any other idea how to "highlight" those which are worthy of it.

I agree with both of you. It could be an idea to make some sort of "rules" in the OP to make things clear to people who wants to participate. You have to test your map so it's possible to complete and listen to feedback if people clearly are experiencing problems for example.

Sorry for talking about you Rainbow bacon. But when I played one of your maps in sf2011 and noticed that you hadn't even tagged a locked door (which caused the player to be unable to exit) I got a bit pissed tbh. Because according to me, you have to be able to beat your own stuff to actually know what you're doing. And that locked door was some sort of evidence that you hadn't even played your own map from start to finish. This made me think about my own contributions that I had put alot of time and thought into to make as good as possible (it's of course debateable if I succeeded) and how others just spewed out turds that was hardly enjoyable/playable (map 31 anyone?).

About grouping the maps. It was a pretty bad system as j4rio pointed out. There should be some kind of progressive feel, skillwise IMO. This wouldn't have been a problem if people actually bothered to read the .txt though.

We actually dropped some maps for sf2011 if you remember. I think the guy who made the maps were "The spaztik one". It felt lame to tell him the map sucked and that it had to be scrapped, but it was 100% worth it in the end I think. We all gave him feedback that he wouldn't listen to at all, so I can't see we didn't at least try to be fair.

So I propose that we have some kind of quality check. If it sucks total ass we have to do something about it. And when I say "we" I mean we have to whip the author so the problems get solved. The way we solved some problems in 2011 was that someone else got to tweak the gameplay, but it didn't turn out to be that successfull IMO. The only really successfull tweak was Phml's slaughtenstein lol. So, we keep a happy medium by letting anyone in, but they have to answer to the feedback given. At least I don't find that form of quality check unfair or elitist.

I guess I should finish my map for sf2012 some day. Some other mysterious project is taking up all my dooming time right now.

Yeah, I know I did that in the 2011 thread. One thing, I only really want my "Bane" map to be in this one. It's probably one of my best maps and I actually did put effort into that one. The others, well, if you can figure out a way to make them work, I guess we can include them, but I don't really care. I do have a bunch of other maps I'm working on and off that take time from doing any more of these right now.

I wouldn't put it like that danne. You sure know how to scare people off. I meant it more towards encouraging author to tune up map that isn't satisfactory enough rather than whip. :P That DH's bane map was really great and I'm actually surprised how well it plays (yeah, yeah, the version with my edits [/shameless]). It's still half a year and there are at least 15 neat and usable maps, but once the count in thread title reaches 32, I have such a feeling that'd discourage anyone from contributing anything anymore. I'd say the list "should" be divided into maps that are certainly in final wad and ones that require changes based on feedback. It's not a doomworld mega project with everyone required to post in after all.

From what I have read, thing placement is not my best side.
If you feel that my maps are too bad for this you could take them out, no problem with that.
Or someone else could do thing placement since it said in the OP you could make layouts for others to do things.
Or I could put them in a wad of my own and make a new thread or something, i don't know.

Well, I said those layouts might be usable, but to actually use some pre-made layout and fill it so the finished product is good enough is actually more difficult than making a good map from scratch (not for me though, I can't do layouts lols). The last one seems to have some potential so I might have a look at it sometime, others seem like annoyance to polish, at least for me. Lost is probably the worst out of those, I'd remove that, no way to save that one as the layout is totally antislaughter.

I sure didn't mean to scare anyone off. I used the word "whip" in a comical sense rather than literal, while I meant encourage all along. Other than that, I can't really see how I'm scaring people away.

I guess you agree that it sucks when people aren't listening to what other doomers alike think about their maps. And I don't mean feedback about colorthemes for example, I mean gameplay. Like throwing 4 pinkies at the player and 3 shells, forcing you to tyson your way out. You complain to the author: "that pinkie ambush at the start without ammo isn't really working". The author replies: "As the sensitive artist I am, I can't change it."

It's cases like this that I'm thinking about when the word "scrapped" is coming up.

I don't care about the map order, so anything is fine with me. I hope the /idgames reception for SF2011 hasn't discouraged some of you guys. I've released 22 wads to /idgames and only 2 of them have more than 3 stars. It used to bother me, but I'm used to it now.

LOST - I've only played the first version so far and I liked it, but I'd make some gameplay changes. elmle, is it ok if I edit Lost?

About SF2011 map31, I liked that one too. I barely changed anything about it because I just thought it could use some small gameplay changes. Just me? :)

@TOD, Yeah go ahead, in fact, I will allow all of my maps to be edited by anyone who feels like doing so.
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I'm not a hardcore doomer/mapper, I'm more of a casual(a slaughter casual?) and as the casual I am, I am too lazy to really think about where I put stuff in my maps(no lighting edits is also a sign of my laziness).
I just see placement in my head and if its impossible to beat when I test it I will change it(or if someone tells me to change something I will try to make it better, but still no thought behind it).

And j4rio, about overly complex secrets in some of my maps, I was thinking something along the lines of Deus Vult when I made them, but I guess that didnt work out as well as I thought.
As a matter of fact, the sole reason I came to these forums was to find other wads like Deus Vult, but then I found all this other stuff that I thought was pretty cool.
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Also I seem to be having some trouble when playing some maps you lot have made, no textures wan't to show up even though I'm using sf2011-tex as an extra wad.
Without it floors and ceilings are red blocks that say "NO TEXTURE" and with it they seem to be correct but I can't tell since I can't see the walls.

I made it in about 2 hours. I'll probably improve it (tweak gameplay, make it look nicer, add a death exit) over the summer when I have more time available. Don't feel reluctant to harshly criticize it or anything.

I made it in about 2 hours. I'll probably improve it (tweak gameplay, make it look nicer, add a death exit) over the summer when I have more time available. Don't feel reluctant to harshly criticize it or anything.

That was quite a fun map, Processingcontrol :)

Still very easy though, could go in a low MAPXX slot. I completed it in four tries, as below:

Could go lower, as it was sort of a FDA. I didn't know what to do in the end. Maybe the map is too harsh at the beginning? Maybe too many Megaspheres? Map plays just fine and it's fun to sweep through all these monsters.

It was okay, kinda luckbased start and a little too much health after, again invulnerability probably should appear just in HMP and below. I would scale it, although I gotta check how would it work after that.

I'm still not 100% sure I'll have time to make a map or 'remix' that one I 'claimed'.

But I think each author should have complete freedom to do whatever they want in their own map. If you can claim authority over someone else's map then they can do the same to yours. Individual brains produce unique/interesting output while a large group waters stuff down or pulls in a direction the author didn't intend. Obviously anyone can discuss game breaking flaws or recommend stuff, but imo it should be up to the author to take the recommendation. I guess someone could troll the megawad by purposely releasing unbeatable maps that start you in a room with a locked blue door and no blue key or something.. Then again someone could troll by claiming everyone else's map isn't good enough then edit it to be worse. But trolls are beautiful beings with a bad rap and we should let them have their fun. This isn't a commercial project so no need to make it all appealing to a majority to maximize revenue; it's just a bunch of maps grouped into a convenient megawad that will be quickly buried in time like every other one on idgames. Our goal should be to get bad reviews. And I like group-by-author better actually.

gggmork said:
no need to make it all appealing to a majority to maximize revenue; it's just a bunch of maps grouped into a convenient megawad that will be quickly buried in time like every other one on idgames. Our goal should be to get bad reviews.

Don't you by that logic actually become a troll yourself? It's a little funny you say that though. There isn't a single map released by you that is sucky. Imo and all that.

Dividing wad into 2 parts is reasonable for me, as I still didn't get to the point that I give no frack about anything. Eventually I might even get to that though. Oh, and reviews don't really matter. It's obvious that with all the diversion you won't appeal to majority just due to chosen genre. The worse thing however is that I actually had to agree with a few points brought up at idgames.

As far as I can tell, the link to my map (Pure Hate) is down. Should I re-upload it? I`m not even sure if it is a slaughter map. It`s kinda cramped and all that, and there are no real "hordes" of monsters. What defines a slaughter map? :P

j4rio, Phml, danne, and GRB: are you guys cool with the new NOTEs in the first post? Is there anything that should be added/removed?

Looks good to me. Those notes make sense and aren't too restrictive.

gggmork, I don't think what you're saying is at odds with what everyone else is saying. We aren't talking about setting up overarching themes or strict guidelines, but merely to try to improve the quality, as subjective as this might be here (and precisely why, being so ill-defined, it's worth talking about IMHO).

Forget about the majority, this is peer review first and foremost. Which, personally, I find invaluable. Mouse would have been an utterly tedious mess if it wasn't for dannebubinga having a gift for, using a mere few words, making me rethink entire areas I've worked hours on and would be unwilling to even think about deleting if it was just me. Slaughtenstein would be hilariously broken had Ancalagon not playtested it extensively in imaginative ways.

It's just so much harder to do it all by yourself; and, in a way, to just accept everything and not try to identify what works and what doesn't, what is better and what is worse, also makes it harder for anyone to improve, especially new mappers. There are quirks distinctive of a particular style and there are quirks that are just unfun and frustrating even to the author itself (who may be the last person to notice it, hence the need for others to speak up), to weed out the latter doesn't necessarily imply a loss of freedom or individuality.

...Truthfully? Despite yapping my jaw I'm not sure I give much of a damn either. I just try to, because caring tends to make stuff better and ultimately I like to have better stuff to play. If minor changes requiring little effort can significantly improve the end result, might as well go for it.

Here's another short and relatively easy map, starts off quite slow but there are some slaughter battles at the end, definitely would be close to map01 in position.
Exodushttp://www.mediafire.com/?naoxi53avuat8o7

In terms of discussion, as a newbie still to mapping. I personally don't mind taking flack and critism for bad design ideas, in the end it helps and for this kind of stuff I have a much more relaxed feeling about what people say.
In the case of some peoples fears of "elitism" I feel that what has been said is fair, there are people like phml, TOD, gggmork who are much more experienced at this style of gameplay and mapping overall and their judgements on your map are likely to be wise and well thought out, not to say that mappers should put their own creative spin on things, that's where originality come in :)