LeBron James: His standard, his critics, and his Chamberlain echoes, good and bad

* I’ve just discovered that Commander Ratto wrote something on this very theme days ago, which is troublesome because 1) He wrote it first; 2) If we both come up with something, the odds grow great that it is terribly, terribly wrong. If it’s wrong, he’s wronger than me. That’s my last defense.

-You can’t ask LeBron James to keep doing what he did tonight… because nobody can do that every playoff game.

Michael Jordan in his prime couldn’t do it every playoff game, Kobe Bryant couldn’t and can’t, Larry Bird couldn’t. It’s just not possible.

Well, it actually was possible for Wilt Chamberlain, who I am now eyeing as a fascinating historical/statistical/can-he-win-the-big-one comparable to the current LeBron situation.

Different times, very different players, I’m not saying LBJ is exactly the new Wilt or that Wilt was the old LeBron. And yet… Hmm…

LeBron is now 27, finishing his 9th NBA season, and he just won his third MVP despite not yet having a championship.

The only player to have won 3 or more MVPs in a similar championship-situation historically was…

-Chamberlain, who didn’t win a championship until 1967, the conclusion of his eighth season, when he was 30–which was the same year he won his third MVP.

So if LeBron does win his first title this year, there is only one player to have gone down that path, and it’s… you know who.

And if LBJ doesn’t win the title this year… his early career arc remains closely comparable to one player and ONLY one player, who won two titles eventually and people still wondered if he had the right stuff.

That’d be Wilt.

I’m not saying they were wrong to wonder about Wilt, especially compared to Bill Russell’s 11 championships.

I’m just saying LeBron will go through the same analysis until he wins a title, and then he might hear it even after that, the same way Wilt did.

With talent like that, why not win more? Why not win every year?

And maybe the entire league (or Kevin Durant or some other great star gobbling up the titles) will turn into LeBron’s haunted version of Russell.

Of course, Wilt’s numbers are so ridiculous, it’s impossible to compare him straight up with anybody, even LeBron. Different game, much larger numbers across the board, especially for Chamberlain.

-Shaquille O’Neal was a very good physical comparable to Wilt… until Shaq went ahead and won those four championships, doubling Wilt’s total. (Though Shaq only won one MVP.)

So I’m getting back to the LeBron/Wilt echoes…

Can we conclude that Wilt was a singular force at his size with that that strength and grace in that era, and that LeBron is also a singular force of size/strength/grace in this era, only at a different position?

Can we say that Wilt was presumed to have failed every time he didn’t win a title, and that Wilt was the only guy judged that way?

And that LeBron is judged similarly and also the only one in this era to be under that microscope?

(Again, I’m not saying it’s wrong, I’m just saying it happens only to LeBron.)

I think we can say those things. This might get people yelling, but I’m still going ahead with this.

Clearly one of the great playoff performances ever, coming against one of the best defensive teams in the NBA, geared up to slow him down.

But the rub: All it did was extend this series to Game 7 on Saturday in Miami, and if James doesn’t hit the same levels, and if Miami loses, then the roaring debate will start again.

Can LeBron win the Big One?

My call: It’s beyond obvious that LeBron is good enough to win many titles and that he will win at least one or two eventually, just like Wilt did.

LeBron probably won’t win as many as MJ or Magic did… but I think he will win at least one.

I know, there’s a huge gap between being “good enough” and really doing. If LBJ never wins a championship, that will be a major, major stain on his historical significance.

Yes, he probably should’ve won one by now–he’s that much better than everybody else, even Durant, though Durant is closing that gap quickly.

LeBron rightfully won his third MVP this year… and every other player that won 3 or more MVPs had a title by the time of his 1st or 2nd MVP win. Except Wilt.

–The flip side of that, Magic Johnson didn’t win his first MVP–of three, eventually–until 1987, the same season he won his third championship. Magic won his first title at 20.

–Jordan was 28 when he won the first of his six titles; he won the first of his five MVPs the previous season.

–Shaq was also 28 when he won the first of four championships (in his 8th season), and that was his only MVP year.

Sometimes the greats win titles early, too, I know, but the flood of MVP awards almost always come later.

-Kobe Bryant (as Shaq’s No. 2) won his first of five titles at 21 and didn’t win his only MVP until eight years later.

–Tim Duncan the first of his four championships at 23 and didn’t win his only MVP until three years later; Durant might win his first title this year at 23 and has not won an MVP.

Titles, then multiple MVPs, that’s the way it usually works.

Again, except for LeBron and Wilt. (Karl Malone and Steve Nash both won two MVPs without winning any titles, which is why I used 3 or more MVPs as my main cut-off for this discussion.)

It’s fair to judge LeBron by high standards, because he is the best player in the game, he’s capable of incredible things, and yet he has had more than his share of late-series flame outs, too.

No question on the flame outs. Might happen again this year.

But let’s be accurate here: James is judged by the highest standards in the history of the NBA, and only LeBron and Wilt have gone through this for this many years.

Even if LeBron falls short in every other big historic sporting measurement, just being put in a category alone with Wilt isn’t a bad accomplishment, right there.

Maybe it’s frustrating. But nobody else is there.

–OK, one other thing…

I ran through a few of the historic single-game playoff performances in recent history… and you just don’t see back-to-back games (within the same series) like that.

With one possible exception: James himself, in the middle of the Indiana series.

* Jordan went for 63 monumental points in the double-OT (Bird: “God disguised as Michael Jordan”) loss at Boston in Game 2 of the 1986 first round. (Jordan’s second season.)

But in the clinching Game 3 loss (122-104), Jordan only scored 19 points on 8-for-18 shooting, though he was only one assist short of a triple-double.

* Kobe Bryant put up 45 points, 10 rebounds and 3 assists in Game 1 at San Antonio in the Western semis.

But in Game 2, Bryant’s line: 28 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists.

(Bryant did have back-to-back monster efforts in those playoffs, but one of them was to close the first round against Sacramento–48-16-3–followed by the Game 1 extravaganza vs. San Antonio. I’m only counting back-to-back games in the same series for this discussion.)

* Isiah Thomas erupted for 43 points–24 in the third quarter alone–in Game 6 of the NBA Finals vs. the Lakers in LA. But Detroit, with a chance to clinch the title, still lost the game.

But in Game 7, hobbling on the ankle he injured during the Game 6 spree, Thomas shot only 4-for-12 and 10 points as the Lakers took the series.

* Because I’ve just got to include it, Sleepy Floyd turned into Superman and scored 51 (on 18-for-26 shooting) overall and a record 29 in the fourth vs. the Lakers in Game 4 of the first round at Oakland in 1987–the Warriors only win in that series.

But in Game 5, Floyd shot 7-for-17, scored 18 points and the Warriors were eliminated.

* And let’s do LeBron’s own history following a monster playoff performance… (Yes, you’re quite good when you can make this list twice or three times..)

His previous greatest playoff game was his 48-point, 9-rebound, 7-assist explosion for Cleveland in Game 5 at Detroit in Eastern Conference finals, with the series tied 2-2.

In the next game, James was good in Cleveland’s series-clinching victory in Game 6–a near triple-double–but he only shot 3-for-11 and scored 20 points.

* LeBron again: Actually, the best follow-up to an epic playoff performance came just this season, from LBJ, who lit Indiana for 40, 18 and 9 in a Game 4 victory at Indy with the Heat trailing the series 2-1.

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I believe by the time LeBron is finished with his career, he will be recognized as one of the five greatest players to ever play the game. He will be seen as the greatest small forward of all time. Wilt, Michael Jordan and LeBron are the greatest physical talents the NBA has ever seen. Only one of these three players had/has a killer instinct. Michael Jordan was the perfect mix of talent and desire. That is why he is the greatest.

Tim you make a good point that Wilt and LeBron are being judged by an impossible standard. This only happens in the NBA. Because Bill Russell was on a team that won 11 titles and Wilt “only” won two titles his career is diminished. Any objective person who saw Wilt play in his prime knows that he was a far superior player compared to Bill Russell. The Celtics had the superior organization and better players in most of the years that Chamberlain matched up with Russell.

Willie Mays was on one World Series winning team. Mickey Mantle won many more rings than Willie Mays. In fact The Yankees beat the Giants twice when Mays and Mantle played. Because the Yankees won does that make Mantle a better player than Mays? The overwhelming majority of fans would say that Mays was the better player despite the playoff results.

I am curious why there is a special standard for talents like Wilt and LeBron. Why is it that this standard seems to be only in the NBA? If anybody can share insight into this, I would like to understand this better.

B-Court37

Basketball players are held to a different standard than Major League Baseball players due to the fact that in baseball you can’t impact the game unless you are at bat, on base, or if the ball is hit to you. Theoretically, LeBron James or Kobe Bryant could touch the basketball on every possesion of the game.

niner

we’ve seen some great forward play. Lebron, Durant, Duncan and Garnett. Simply Amazing!

Swamp Thing

I just noticed that every sentence gets its own paragraph…any reason for that? And yes, I know this is just fueling your fire that your readers will always find something to nitpick, but I just find it strange. Our comprehension skills are good enough that we can handle blocks of text.

That said, you make some great points here, Tim. A very interesting read.

Bunz

@Upinc44 A single basketball player can have greater influence over the outcome of a game than a baseball player (other than the pitcher). Re: Wilt’s dominance over Russell – One guy averaged 28-28 against the other (that’s 28 points and 28 rebounds) and his name wasn’t Russell.

steve

Don’t want to be held up to those insane expectations? Don’t call yourself the “King”…

Mike

Swamp Thing..I actually find it easier to read the way Tim blogs on this site…Reading blocks of text can be straining to the eye..just saying =)

Swamp Thing, it’s a common writing technique where the white space around your paragraphs is a consideration (e.g., journalism, screenwriting, etc.).

Blapper3851

Lebron is under an unfair microscope. Basketball is the ultimate team game. When Lebron has monster games like these, some people will say “Why can’t he do this all the time?” and then he gets deemed a failure if he doesn’t. That’s not fair. He gets hated on for nothing, never in the news over negative press.

The funny thing is, these same people (those who hate Lebron no mater what) say he chokes, isnt clutch. He took that Cavs team to the finals! Name the other starters on that team, I’ll wait….. Exactly. Does nobody remember against the Pistons, scoring 29 of last 30 points, bringing them back from 0-2? Or the Bulls series last year? Every game he ends up checking the best perimeter player, low post player, expected to rebound, initiate the offense, make assists, score, play 40+ min and never mess up. I would like to see anyone be perfect at their job every second.

Steve #4: He never nicknamed himself King. It was a nickname ‘bestowed’ unto him. Yeah, he recognizes the name, but he didn’t make it up. He was on Sports Illustrated in the 8th grade, with the headline “The Chosen One”. If people were to call you King Steve, would you blush and meekly say “oh, stop it”? Doubtful. If I was known as King Blapper, best believe I will run with it.

Yeah he didn’t have the great finals. But that meant he wasnt up to Lebron caliber. The funny thing is, when the Lakers won their last ‘ship, Mr. Clutch, Kobe Bean Bryant, shot 6-24 in the clincher. Lakers win because of The artist formerly known as Artest. Lebron was close to a triple double in game 6, iirc.

It’s a shame people are so negative and condescending. They are missing a chance to witness one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

Ultra-Humanite

No, if you wonder if Wilt had the right stuff, then you are an asshat. Does anybody wonder if Charles Barkley had the right stuff because he lost to the Dream and MJ?

Mano de Nada

Well there’s no doubt that Lebron is a very good player; excellent on both sides of the court, with or without the ball. BUT he’s 0-2 in finals, and he kinda rubs peeps the wrong way – a self proclaimed king without a crown. There’s something about the way does t’ings, really the way imagines himself, that creates friction. It’s why he doesn’t really elevate the play of his teammates (when compared to all time greats); he doesn’t seem to have that kind of presence and vision. Playing with Jordan, for example, Luc Longley was transformed into a usable NBA center. James hasn’t had the affect on say, Joel Anthony. James also doesn’t have that crazy will like MJ or Kobe, it’s why he felt he had to hook up with someone like Wade.

Very weird for “the best player in the NBA” to be so deferential to his teammates. How many times has a 3x MVP not even been the most willful player on his team??

Mano de Nada

In terms of Russell v Wilt; no doubt who was the better singular player, just like there’s no doubt who was the better team player on the better teams.

Chamberlain scored a lot, Russell won a lot more.

workingman

Just looking at that staggering line — 45, 15. 5 — I’m thinking this could be LeBron’s “Criag Ehlo moment,” one that propels him to multiple championships.

Ron

@Mano de Nada: Uhm, really? He doesn’t make the players around him better? How many great seasons did such amazing players as Boobie Gibson, Delonte West, Mo Williams or anyone else from those Cleveland teams have. “Transform into serviceable players?” Those guys, who got contracts after that because of playing with James, should kick back 25% of their career earnings to him. They’re only thought of as plausible bench players, let alone free agent signings, because of success they had with James.

Jordan was the best of all time (I’m 50, so I didn’t watch Russell, and saw only the end of Wilt’s career, but I’m willing to back that statement up in a bunch of ways), and he made a sub-standard center into less of a liability. His greatest magic act was making Steve Kerr and John Paxson, lousy players who could just flat out shoot, into household names. I’m taking nothing away from MJ, and recognize how he made those around him more effective.

But LeBron has done that time and again, with two different teams, yet gets nothing but grief. Do you honestly think Mario Chalmers is a legitimate starting NBA guard on any other team? That Mike Miller, who had been given up on by three different teams, makes a significant and useful impact without LBJ? Hell, that you can start Udonis Haslem at center without him? I don’t.

LeBron James is currently the best all around player in the game. Nobody does more than he does to help his team win. Before last night’s monster, he was averaging 31, 10 and 5.5 in this series. You think those are just numbers, but what’s even more impressive is that he was doing it on just over 50% shooting. Hell, Michael never averaged 50% for a season, and I doubt he did it in the playoffs, either, and, as I said, he’s the best there’s ever been. It’s not just how much he does. It’s that he does it in the flow of the game to avoid screwing up everyone else. No 6-24 wins for him. No jacking up difficult shots. He finds a way to do it in the flow of the game.

Or, as some would put it, he scores 31 ppg while, uhm, making room for those around him to play well. He assuredly makes those around him better.

The fact that he does it while playing some of the best defense in the game today is even more impressive.

So many complain about today’s players. They care about flash and cash more than winning. They don’t know how to put the team above themselves. But when we find a superstar who gave up potential money to try to win a championship and who is constantly playing team ball, even when nobody would blame him for playing what Doc Rivers correctly derides as “hero ball,” we harp.

I’m hoping they win Game 7. I think Durant vs. James (and is there any doubt that James would want to cover Durant?) is a fascinating matchup, as is Harden vs. Wade. I think the Thunder is playing some of the most impressive offense I’ve ever seen. When they’re going, they look unstoppable. I want to see what happens when the league’s best perimeter defender (James) covers its best all around scorer (Durant), and I want to see which of the role players have an impact. But no matter what, contending that James doesn’t make those around him as good as they can be is just willfully ignoring the man.

Jaysohn

The biggest problem for Lebron is that he is compared to Kobe and Jordan when in fact Lebron plays more like Magic. Lebron doesn’t have the almost maniacal mindset of those two to domininate the game as a scorer all the time. Like Magic, Lebron would rather facilitate and coordinate the play of his team. The biggest difference however is Magic played most of his career with two other Hall of Famers. Like an earlier poster pointed out, name two players from the Cavaliers team that made it to the Finals? Name another player on the Cavaliers that was a perennial all-star? Most of the playoffs fans celebrated the Spurs team play where no one player needed to score 30 or 40 for them to win, yet we bemoan Lebron for not scoring 30 or 40 every game. We complain about Kobe being a ball hog and taking all the shots in the 4th quarter and the NBA being a 1 on 1 game but critcize Lebron for passing to an open teammate in the closing seconds of games. He hasn’t gotten into trouble off the court, appears to support his family and friends. Hasn’t been reported to be a jerk yet he is villified more than any other player. I know we judge our stars by winning and sometimes that’s unfair.

Martina

The problem these days is, in the current world in and around the ESPN Jockocracy World, only the number of championships can validate your standing. To be fair, James, by suggesting 3, 4, 5, 6 …. multiple championships with The Heat put incredible pressure on himself.

Then of course the media piles on with the “can’t hit the crucial shot” bulls***, as if anyone ever cared if Bill Russell ever took the critical shot on his way to leading the Celtics to 11 NBA championships.

James is a great player who, by the end of his career, will be recognized as one of the 10 best players, and in terms of physical ability, one of the 3 or 4 best players ever.

People should enjoy his talent while he’s with us.

Heat fan

I think the light bulb finally turned on in LeBron’s head in Heat uniform

Rob

Good post Ron –

I’m certainly not a mindless LeBron backer nor MJ hater but looking objectively here, LeBron does take a lot of heat from perception only. I’m actually NOT entirely sure it was MJ’s will to win that made his teammate hit a clutch shot (i.e. Paxson).

Mike M

I don’t know why nobody will make this LeBron issue simple? The reason why LeBraon has not won a title yet, and I don’t think it will be this year either, is because he freezes up at the most important parts of big games. He proved it last year vs Dallas, showed signs early this season and in game five of this Boston series. The all-time greats MJ, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Russell, Duncan have won multiple titles cause they were at their best when the game or series was on the line. LeBron thus far has not shown this ability and because of this self-deficiency he cannot even will his team to a title. I’m tired of all the excuses that people make for LeBron. If he does not win a title within the next three years, his status will change from an all-time great to another multi-talented player who did not have what it takes to win a championship ala Barkley, Malone, Gervin, & Ewing. Instead of assuming LeBron is destined for greatness, until he wins multiple titles, maybe everyone should just call him what he is…a damn good player.

Mr. Upside

Hey TK,

Does this mean you are now as bitter is Ratto? Just don’t grow a mustache that’s all I ask!

I must admit that I am warming to LeBron. He’s taken a pounding, much of it deserving. Still, he’s an incredible player and so complete. If nothing else the playoffs are a better story when his team is in it.

3rdKing

…just another day at the office, your welcome King

iain ferreira

I may be mistaken but I think Tim Duncan has won three NBA Finals MVP’s and TWO Regular Season MVP awards. I think the regular season awards were back to back.

DB07

Moses Malone also won his only title on his third MVP season.

Ron

I give James credit for his sportmanship on the court. He rarely complains or calls attention to himself unlike most other players. The “decision” was definately a bad one, compounded by the ridiculous introduction of the big three in Miami. Fans still dislike him over that and may until he retires.

Mano de Nada

King of advertising? Definitely.

Hasn’t made his team mates better in the all time great (ie win championships) kinda way. Obviously.

Even with Wade & Bosh instead of West & Jamison. Even when he’s been favored. Yup all kinds of game, except in big games.

Oh and quitting on CLE? That really indicates what is probably his fatal flaw.

And if he chokes again…

Mano de Nada

OF COURSE he’s compared to the all time greats – he ASKED for it.

the real deal

LeBron sucks – they ought to trade him (to the Warriors).

SurfCity

What I’m hoping is that one day, this long gap where the Warriors don’t play, but there seems to be lots of basketball going on, will be ending!

Dai

Didn’t Wade go for multiple 40-pt games in the Finals against Dallas when he won the championship?

And I remember a series where Penny Hardaway dropped several 40-pt games, I think it was in a first round series.

UNC89

@ Ron. I agree with pretty much all you have said. Excellent post. Just have to correct you on a very important item, one that is part of defining MJ’s greatness. Before Jordan went back to play for the Wizards, his FG % was above 50% for his career! By the way if you include the two years with the Wizards, hs career FG% is .497. This is truly amazing and remember this is with different rules than today where hand checking taken to the extremes with the Jordan Rules personified the day. Check out basketball reference.com for the details, but he shot 51.9-53.9 for prime years of 88-92 during the regular season and in the playoffs the same seasons it was 49.9-53.1.

That said, LeBron’s performance in game 6 was amazing but to get anywhere near his due, he will have to win championships and make great plays at the end of close playoff games like Jordan did routinely.