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A while ago we chose Central 5, a group of five people who work as a governing body for the Soul Society. They are currently Kuroimaken, Sucrose, Frozen_Feet, KnightDisciple and Nicklance. They are tasked with such tasks as deciding Captain promotions and upholding laws of Seireitei. Details can be found below.In the second last thread people voted and decided that there would not be a Quincy vs Shinigami war before the actual start of the story/roleplay unlike in canon. It was also decided through a vote that Quincy arrows would destroy souls as they do in canon through a vote. People are open to the possibility of future conflicts between the two factions and the Quincy learning how to purify souls with their arrows. Learning how to do so would likely be a significant plot point.

Quincy players have decided that anyone that makes a Quincy should write up a description of their family/clan's history.

Souls that are fully absorbed and become part of a hollow permanently fuse with it. When a hollow is purified the souls it absorbed are not split up. They are reborn as a single entity.

Frozen_Feet's proposed take on this:

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Life Cycle of Hollows.Canny Hollows: these are beings like Grand Fisher and Shrieker - normal Hollows that stay behind in Mortal World much longer than usual. Why? Either they still have unfinished business... or they were already crooked in life.

My reasoning is as follows: when a good Plus turns into a Hollow, it seeks to destroy its loved ones like any other Hollow. However, the mind of the good souls can't hold together once they're done with that. They lack killer's instinct, and might even feel guilt for breaking what was once dear to them in life. This is why they seek oblivion.

Evil souls, on the other hand, gain much more pleasure from tormenting living beings. Even after they've killed those they had a personal beef with, they stay in Mortal World, because their bestial desires won't let them leave. In a way, they still have something to do that defines them and stops them from losing their inviduality, even if it's only "kill all things":

Menos Grande Gillians: When a soul becomes Hollow, the first thing it does is destroy all things it held dear in mortal life. In most cases, having lost their purpose and consumed by their own loneliness, Hollows wander into Hueco Muendo, where they instinctively seek out other souls who died in the same way. Seeking embrace of sweet oblivion, they engage in cannibalistic orgy and fuse into Menos Grande Gillian. Fusion of souls is permanent; once eaten by a Gillian, a soul cannot be separated again.

Menos Grande Gillian's have no identity, only scattered fragments of negative memories and emotions. When such a Gillian is purified, its soul passes into Soul Society as essentially blank slate. However, due to originally being gestalt of multiple entities, such soul has much vaster Reiryoku than normal and is more likely to fragment into Zanpakuto spirit and Inner Hollow. Thus, a purified Menos Grande Gillian is very likely to become a shinigami.

Adjuchas and Vasto Lordes: As noted, Menos Grande Gillians are gestalt formed from people who died in the same way. Adjuchas happens when the amount of souls reaches a critical mass, causing a new personality to bloom from the fragmented memories. This being is effectively personification of its "cause of death". However, Adjuchas aren't stable, and must keep absorbing other Hollows who died the same way to increase in power. Should they fail to absorb other Hollows, starvation will make them regress, reducing them back to mindless beasts. Once Adjuchas has eaten enough souls, it evolves into a Vasto Lorde. However, this requires that they beat all of their challengers, letting none who manage to eat a bit of them to get away.

So, why can't Adjuchas who gets a bit of itself eaten become a Vasto Lorde? It's because losing to another Hollow means there's another being with same Aspect of Death who is more powerful. A Vasto Lorde is a Menos who has absorbed or proven itself to be stronger than all other Hollows with the same aspect of death. They are, effectively, anthropomorphic personifications of their Aspect of Death, and rule supreme over lost souls who died that way. As long as they remain undefeated, they are stable; if a Vasto Lorde does lose, it begins to regress like Adjuchas until it can destroy the Hollow that defeated it.

Arrancars: A Hollow can become an Arrancar in any point of its life, as long as it has a personality at the time. An Arrancar is a Hollow who learns to define itself by way other than its Aspect of Death, thus rising above its bestial instincts.

All Arrancars are stable. While an Arrancar can keep eating souls to increase in power, it no longer fuses new souls with the core of its person - the nommed soul only loses its reiryoku. A soul eaten by Arrancar is usually reborn as a new Hollow. In any case, eating Pluses or other Hollows is pretty much voluntary for an Arrancar - they mostly do so because there is no other food in Hueco Muendo. Because of this, Arrancars can't be held as inherently worse than humans or Shinigami.

Menos and Purification: Shinigami who don't remember their lives were Menos who got purified. As the identity of a Menos is effectively a new entity and is only born after death, Konso unfortunately wipes that all away. For purposes of Redemption, a soul which has gone through Oblivion of the Gillian phase is exempt from Hell's punishment. They become Shinigami because of huge amount of Reiryoku they accumulated as a Hollow.

Resurreccion and Segunda Etapa: Resurreccion is an Arrancars ability to retake its form as a Hollow, and consequently as the manifestation of its aspect. The power of an Arrancars resurreccion is in part directly proportional to how much the Arrancar's behaviour reflects its Aspect.

While achieving Segunda Etapa is only typical for Vasto Lordes who already rule over their Aspect, theoretically any Arrancar can achieve it through meticulous training and self realization.

Soul Society and the inhabitants of Las Noches (The King of Hollows, the Epsada and their underlings) have a truce between each other at the start of the game/story but both sides want to break as soon as they gain a substantial upper hand on the other.

People that want to make captain entries should write up a history for their preferred division including duties, a past captain or two and whatever else you might think important to add. It can be significantly different from canon.

General

Purpose of the Central 5/46 and Division Information

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5 trusted players are chosen to act as the Central 46. Any of these people can post as the entire body, and essentially act as an administrative organization both in and out of character. You might think that doesn't make sense, but in actuality, the duties would cross-over a lot more than you might imagine. For example, say a player wants his character to be promoted to a captain at some point in the RPG. The Central 46 would be the ones who analyze the situation and make a decision, but they'd have to look closely at both the character and the player to see if they're ready for the responsibilities. As another example, imagine that a group of rogue Shinigami appear in the mortal world and start causing trouble. The 46 would decide whether or not Soul Society goes to war with them, and thus whether or not any of the more powerful characters get involved in the plot. Think of them like a set of unofficial moderators for the RPG, who keep things in check both ICly and OOCly.

I think it could also add a whole new layer of role-playing opportunities. Let's say a group of low-powered academy students are training in the mortal world when one classmate decides to do something reckless and ends up getting them into dire straits. They make it back to Soul Society alive and in one piece, but now they have to answer to the Central 46 and explain their actions. Having actual players behind the council instead of just mindless NPCs (or corpses) makes it a bit of a nagging threat in the back of people's minds, and could even indirectly prevent players from going overboard. Since I know that if I were sitting on the council, I would not be a gracious host.

Laws of Las Noches
1. Only a victory in singular combat entitles one to take the position of espada from another.
2. The espada are not allowed to conspire against one another.
3. Killing a fellow citizen is a crime, unless it is self-defense, or you don't get caught on the act (drow influence: The real crime is being caught). The espada can add other exclusions of culpability for their sectors (including and up to any reason, LAW*). *Laws as Written.
4. Vandalism is a crime. See above for excludents.
5. Thievery is a crime. See above for details.
The espada and privaron have equal authority over all numeros. The espada have sole authority over their own fraccion. The espada have sole authority over the citizens of their own districts. The fraccion have authority beneath the espada and privaron over all other citizens of Las Noches who live in own their districts. The fraccion have authority beneath that of the espada and privaron over the numeros. The privaron have sole authority over those designated to them by the King and Queen. The King and Queen have authority over all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draken View Post
1. I will be assigning the Espada, most likely.

2. I will also, probably, not keep the numbers strongly tied to the power of each character.

3. The Ghost King will not be the primera.

4. My main arrancar character (King's gonna stay in the background) will be the Queen of Hollows, and she will not be an espada either. I will keep those positions for other players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
About Aspects of Death: it's established that once a Hollow has destroyed things that were dear to it, they wander into Hueco Muendo and seek out other Hollows to ease their pain / to forget about their lives. I propose they instinctively seek out others who died in the same way, and thus their suffering condenses into their Aspect. Arrancars gain power when the ascended personality realizes this and works around / with it.

Fae

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The State of the Afterlife of the British Isles
Britain’s afterlife is stable – just. Long periods of internal strife between the psychopomps of Britain, known to themselves as the mac Lir or fab Lly^r, and to others as the Fae, left ample time for Hollows to develop and grow. Now, Britain faces a deep-rooted infestation of well-hidden Menos, but the Houses of the British Isles are united in their desire to rid the islands of these threats.

Annwn – the Afterlife
The British afterlife is called Annwn, a place that reflects the most untouched corners of the British Isles in its geography. The four courts of monarchs are located in a roughly central location within a few hours journey of each other by normal walking speed. Passage between Annwn and the mortal world is achieved by passing through thick banks of mist that function as the Fae equivalent of Senkaimon. The mac Lir make use of ravens, rather than butterflies, to guide them through the misty realm between Annwn and the mortal world.

The Organisation of the Fae
The British Isles are ruled by four monarchs – one each for Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales. Each of these monarchs governs passage of souls into Annwn in the country they are tied to. They each possess three Houses under their command, each ruled by a Tiarna or Pennaeth, individuals equal to the captains of Soul Society. A Tiarna or Pennaeth is directly supported by their Dara or Ail, equivalents to the Japanese Vice-Captains. The rest of the House is made up of thirteen mionn cheangal or lw rhwymo, equivalents to seated officers, plus any other Fae who are members of the House but deemed unworthy of the distinction of the upper ranks. The specialisations of each House vary depending on the current Tiarna or Pennaeth, but it is very rare for their not to be at least one House dedicated to combat in each country at any given time. The ranks of the Houses are held for life, unless the bearer of a rank forfeits it. A House member is usually given a title and land in Annwn upon forfeiting a rank. These titles are hereditary, and their bearers and their family often become the British equivalent of the Noble Houses of Soul Society.

Every year, a randomly selected twenty members of each House are chosen to leave Annwn and go out into the mortal world and deal with Hollows as they see fit. Fae on such leave from their House are known as Fianna, and are exempt from all laws of their lords until the end of their sojourn and return to Annwn.

Each monarch also rules a small Royal House. Tiarna or Pennaeth who truly distinguish themselves are promoted to this rank to serve as the monarch’s guardians and personal champions.

Alongside the House structure exists the Aois-dàna, a loose affiliation of bards and druids that serve as advisors to the lords of the Houses, historians, genealogists, legal specialists, and experts in Ealaín, the British form of kido.

Capabilities of the Fae
All abilities the Fae possess are mirrors of the abilities of shinigami. They can walk on air like their Japanese counterparts, and focus their training on Scileanna Laochra (Zanjutsu), Ystwythder (Hoho), Gan a Arm (Hakudo) and Ealaín (Kido).

--------------------------A Note on Language
Whilst most of the terminology for the Fae is based on Celtic languages, some, particularly the specifics and names of Ealaín, were brought to Britain from elsewhere. These use Ancient Sumerian.
--------------------------

In addition, every Fae possesses a Treoir Anam, their equivalent of a zanpakutou. These possess the potential for a Rhyddhau (shikai) and a Nerthol Rhyddhau (bankai) as a zanpakutou does. The only notable difference between a Treoir Anam and a zanpakutou is that the former are quite likely to take a shape other than a sword even when sealed, spears and axes in particular being quite common, and no small number of Aois-dàna druids possessing sickles.

Ealaín
The mystic arts of Britain function identically to kido, the spells of a given path and number function the same as their foreign counterpart.

Geasa
Unlike shinigami, the Fae bear an additional restraint upon their power: geasa (sing. geis). These are taboos for the Fae in question that they must not commit, or lose access to spiritual power or suffer some other misfortune. Anyone can bring a geasa on a Fae, though the Fae in question must willingly accept it. Treoir Anam spirits often require their wielder to agree to a geis before granting Rhyddhau or Nerthol Rhyddhau. They also pay a part in Fae society, geasa often being included in oaths to one’s lord or in marriage vows.

Samsara

Mortals

Translators: Word Reference is a pretty good one for English to Spanish. Just don't translate phrases with it.

EDIT: Concerning the nearing obsoleteness of the thread, I'd like everyone who has Higher Hakuda writeups, Draken's Necromancia writeup, and higher Zanjutsu styles to be added to this thread. Wouldn't want the OP to start being useless, would we?

Anyway, there is a power relating to a capture camera around, is there? How about using the bakudo approach as a solution? Even if it captures the individual, sufficient willpower can and will break the effect, freeing the recipient.

And Von Geister does kinda have a somewhat unavoidable penultimate power, his Segunda Etapa Imperialist Burning Eye is equivalent to a Bakudo 90 that is contantly active on anyone who makes eye contact with Von Geister.

first..i dont see why my mere mention of a show as a visual cue for a POSSIBLE solution or better understanding is such a big deal...

i dont see why both of you have to come at me like i am tryign to bring down the RP...

i bring up the ability as only a potential aside to a plotline which TGVA was asking about... i never once said the power was developed...nor did i say it was "4th seat or below" or anything like that...i never even said it was any kind of power above anything... so inferring this is an ability that can stop the CG and the VG is a bsit insulting as i never approached that as a topic at all

on an other point... arent there restraining Kido? Kido where you are trapped or you are not? and even if you are trapped you can use your strength (if great enough) to do break free of it?

why cant this be something similar to that? When you fire a kido it either hits or it doesnt...and even if it does connect, the person can break free or not...the camera is a camera...if i coudlnt see the person through the viewfinder...then i woudl guess it wouldnt work...

if you want to i am sure you can come up with any number of ways anything i post is wrong and fundamentally unworthy and unfair in this RP

the fact that this is loosely related to an external plotline has NOTHING to do with this... in fact this character is very loosely linked to a similar character...and the powers not the same except in simple concept. An essay orated to me about the merits of the ability based off of that i think is unwarranted

I asked for potential solutions and all i got was basically dont do it...

i dont have time or energy for this right now...i even said that i dont know about that power...which he doesnt even have or anythign yet and i was still tryign to figure out how it woudl work... i was more excited about being in a plot with TGVA...

im not interested in getting into any of this in more detail until i hear more opinions from the community...i will think on the suggestions and thoughts so far though

as for the plot...i think it coudl go forth regardless of the possible power the character could eventually acquire to use at whatever strength or lack there of it could be.... but maybe that will be considered not a good idea either

good night everyone...i guess i was really only feeling well enough to come back and post a little...sorry for all the problems yet again

@HirokatsuGoto: Most of your post is basically fluff to your core argument of "Kido are binary as well, especially binding kido!".

Which...isn't true, or at least not true in the same way. Let's split this up between Hado and Bakudo.

Hado: This is pretty obvious; like sword strikes and such, you can be "partially affected" by Hado. A Byakuri could scrape your arm. Shot of Red Fire might only catch you on the edges. And so forth. So there's a lot of "wiggle room" there, dependent on a lot of factors from both combatants.

Bakudo: This one's a bit more subtle. Let's leave aside the barrier-type spells, as those aren't really a good parallel, and focus on the binding spells. Some of them are somewhat of an "AOE" type; in particular, I'm thinking of Hundred Steps Fence and Triple Beak Piercing Beam. In either case, I think one could make an argument for only catching a couple of the rods, or one of the "beaks", and being only somewhat bound. Then there's the rope-like binding spells; with many of those, you can still move the parts of your body that aren't explicitly bound. Finally, there are the full-body-bind Kido. These are the closest to a "binary" situation, but even then, I'd argue there's "wiggle room". I believe in canon we've seen individuals fight against the kido and move, but only at a very reduced rate. We've seen them break the spell, but only with great effort. Also, in nearly every Bakudo's case, it takes more than just "point and click" to hit the target.

Even with that all said, Bakudo don't remove a character from the scene entirely; even if they can't move, they can speak and interact with other characters. This camera wouldn't allow that.

It might be more interesting to try and think up a series of "status effects" with the camera. Have different types of film do different things, and/or different types of special photo effects do the same. Leave more "wiggle room" beyond "trapped or totally free".

As well, terry is exactly right about the power level of "anyone below 4th Seat". That's a category that's more powerful than all but a couple hundred or so Shinigami, in a military of thousands to tens of thousands, and more powerful than any of the MW kids, or even probably most of the MW adults.

Also, most full body-bind Kido require either successful hits or have to set up some chant ritual to use it. I mean, you can miss with some powerful Bakudo, I'd guess. I'd assume someone who was fast enough could "dodge" Bakudo 63. We haven't seen it used enough to really know for sure.

One other point: in Kekkaishi the ayakashi often break Yoshimori's barriers, especially when they're very strong, and even when they're blown up, the vast majority of them has high-speed regeneration to make up for it.

If I may suggest, you might be better off basing your photographer's powers off Tatsumi Saiga from Speed Grapher. He basically becomes able to blow stuff up by clicking it with his camera. (It interacts a little weirdly with mirrors - apparently, what's on the focus is what gets "shot".) He manages to use photography equipment to alter the effects of his 'shots' as well, such as using a wide-angle lens to produce an area of effect explosion, or a scope lens to increase the power of the blast (though it does get somewhat exaggerated. Using that one levels a whole trail through a mountain, though he does seem extremely tired afterwards). He also can't use his power if there's no film on his camera (he refuses to use the digital variety).

A grand total of two possible results is bad for storytelling, even in RP, less because it forces an unjust reaction and more because it limits the ways the story can go. It's another reason why binary abilities are a bad idea. (Note that depending on what the effect is, it's still salvageable. An ability that can cause, say, paralysis on a "hit" or nausea on a "miss" is a bit easier to deal with since everyone deals with varying degrees of nausea at different rates. It's still not very good, but it's better than paralysis or nothing.)

EDIT: KD, good work on picking up on the concept of reach dominance. Also, you seem to have realized the more difficult part of how wielding two swords affects defense and offense. For someone who never practiced the art you seem to have picked up quickly.

Last edited by Kuroimaken; 2011-11-16 at 07:30 AM.

The Void, the Cold Steel, the Just Sword courtesy of Prime32.

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I met a girl with a really pensive look. I walk up to her, put a fifty cent coin in her hand, "For your thoughts. I know the going rate is supposed to be one, but I figure you play hardball."

She gave it back, "Keep it. Pretty sure a guy with your charm can find a way to have them for free anyway."

Anyway, there is a power relating to a capture camera around, is there? How about using the bakudo approach as a solution? Even if it captures the individual, sufficient willpower can and will break the effect, freeing the recipient.

And Von Geister does kinda have a somewhat unavoidable penultimate power, his Segunda Etapa Imperialist Burning Eye is equivalent to a Bakudo 90 that is contantly active on anyone who makes eye contact with Von Geister.

I could see this working, honestly the camera power isn't that broken. YOu guys jumped down his throat when it was just a concept and he hadn't even fully explained it yet. They could still call out for help from the camera couldn't they? Also say it could capture captains. The would break out nigh instantly and possible break the camera. Also most people don't tend to stand there while someone is attempting a technique on them and this one is purely relying on sight. Not instinct, insight, or reaitsu sensing.

One other point: in Kekkaishi the ayakashi often break Yoshimori's barriers, especially when they're very strong, and even when they're blown up, the vast majority of them has high-speed regeneration to make up for it.

If I may suggest, you might be better off basing your photographer's powers off Tatsumi Saiga from Speed Grapher. He basically becomes able to blow stuff up by clicking it with his camera. (It interacts a little weirdly with mirrors - apparently, what's on the focus is what gets "shot".) He manages to use photography equipment to alter the effects of his 'shots' as well, such as using a wide-angle lens to produce an area of effect explosion, or a scope lens to increase the power of the blast (though it does get somewhat exaggerated. Using that one levels a whole trail through a mountain, though he does seem extremely tired afterwards). He also can't use his power if there's no film on his camera (he refuses to use the digital variety).

A grand total of two possible results is bad for storytelling, even in RP, less because it forces an unjust reaction and more because it limits the ways the story can go. It's another reason why binary abilities are a bad idea. (Note that depending on what the effect is, it's still salvageable. An ability that can cause, say, paralysis on a "hit" or nausea on a "miss" is a bit easier to deal with since everyone deals with varying degrees of nausea at different rates. It's still not very good, but it's better than paralysis or nothing.)

Yeah. I don't think "camera as power focus" is a bad idea at all. It's just that, as stated, "trap the soul" is a poor narrative fit in a multi-writer RP. If it were a single-writer story, then that writer would always know who could or couldn't break free (or maybe just picks arbitrarily, either way).

But in a game like this, it just doesn't seem a good fit, especially since, as strawberryman pointed out, it entirely removes the character from the RP for at least some time. And not in a "heroic sacrifice + epic death scene" way or anything.

Originally Posted by Kuroimaken

EDIT: KD, good work on picking up on the concept of reach dominance. Also, you seem to have realized the more difficult part of how wielding two swords affects defense and offense. For someone who never practiced the art you seem to have picked up quickly.

Thanks. I'm mostly just going with BS+guesswork. Then again, I'm not the 2nd best swordsman in real life, I'm the worst, so you really gotta watch me for wacko moves.

Originally Posted by AnimeKid

I could see this working, honestly the camera power isn't that broken. YOu guys jumped down his throat when it was just a concept and he hadn't even fully explained it yet. They could still call out for help from the camera couldn't they? Also say it could capture captains. The would break out nigh instantly and possible break the camera. Also most people don't tend to stand there while someone is attempting a technique on them and this one is purely relying on sight. Not instinct, insight, or reaitsu sensing.

AK: How is the careful, rational, respectful post I wrote above in any way "jumping down his throat"? Just because the idea doesn't have every detail laid out doesn't mean we can't offer critique; indeed, with such a controversial ability, speaking out early is better.
And Kuroi's right, talk of breaking out or not was ill-defined at best.

The song for Ep. 12 was chosen for maximum irony. Listen closely to the lyrics, they're pertinent to the story and especially what Lalita is thinking.

EDIT: Further commentary on the episode: incidentally, Lalita's remark to War is the core of my theory why a greenhorn like Ichigo could put a fight against beings that have practiced combat for ages more than him: in any given situation, there are only limited pieces of knowledge and skill that are actually relevant. After a point, you don't (and can't) really become "more skilled" - you're just trying to do the same thing over and over again, faster and harder each time.

Now, as my Krav Maga teacher put it, there are three things that matter in martial arts: skill, fitness and willpower. If two equally skilled fighters who are both determined to win clash, the one who is physically strongest will triumph - so on and so forth. (A great enough difference on one are can negate meaning of the other two, but that's another thing.)

Out of these, skill, as in technical ability, is the hardest to achieve as far as I know - see the 10 000 hour rule for details (tl;dr: it takes that long to master any non-trivial skill). Physical power and determination are much more fluid - especially in Bleach. And as we all know, those things Ichigo has in abundance.

And that's why he can win, or fight against likes of Gotei Captains at all. Someone like Aizen might be a veteran of thousand battles and have fought against multitudes of different enemies, but only a tiny fraction of that breadth of ability is actually usable when fighting a guy with a sword with another sword. Ichigo doesn't need to know anything close to as much as him - he only needs to be equally skilled in a very small subset of possible maneuvers. That's why he's been able to power through some of the strongest characters in the series while remaining largely ignorant of what Shinigami are supposed to know, or most of the spiritual world, really.

Thanks in advance to anyone bothering to read through this rant.

Last edited by Frozen_Feet; 2011-11-18 at 02:39 PM.

"It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."

While I don't disagree with the notion that experience and skill can only get you so far, my theory regarding Ichigo is more along the lines of "he's the series' main character and has so much deus ex machina going for him that it's not funny". See the Ulquiorra fight for what I mean.

I DO like the notion that "not knowing something is impossible makes you more likely to succeed" as a storytelling basis, but predictions on any kind of confrontation are a mixed bag. There are WAY more than three factors that decide a battle. Ultimately, I find that in a battle of two opponents of equal skill, the one who wins is the one who screws up the least, because the other is most likely to capitalize on your mistake if he can. War's mistake so far has been to not fight seriously from the beginning, and it's yielded him more than its share of unnecessary wounds for his trouble.

I like that Lalita is fighting intelligently and having his Big Damn Awesome moment, but methinks he doth underestimate the Horse a little too much, especially considering the wounds he has so far. These guys are supposed to be the stuff of legends and ridiculously hard to tame, yet Lalita is acting like War is a speedbump (which is why War has taken this long to take the Arrancar seriously, and why even if he wins, in the current state of things, War is unlikely to accept him as its Rider).

The Void, the Cold Steel, the Just Sword courtesy of Prime32.

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I met a girl with a really pensive look. I walk up to her, put a fifty cent coin in her hand, "For your thoughts. I know the going rate is supposed to be one, but I figure you play hardball."

She gave it back, "Keep it. Pretty sure a guy with your charm can find a way to have them for free anyway."

Frozen didn't say battle. He said martial arts. While there may not be much of a difference (not sure as I have never taken martial arts in my life. The closest I got was reading the manga Kenichi. The author really did their research.) there is a slight one. Plus while Ichigo does have main character status that doesn't mean that it's the only reason he wins. After all he has lost plenty of times before. Plus while I will be the first to agree that Tite Kubo is a massive troll Ichigo did have explained boosts for most of his power. Training with Urahara, Urahara's special bankai training, the training with the visards It usually has an explaination. He also starts out not knowing much. Even with the visards training he doesn't get far even with his high learning curve. While he isn't as skilled I like to quote Xycon on the fact that at a certain level of power tatics just don't hold out. Plus with all uber powerful people showing up sword techniques (actual techniques) just didn't have that much meaning anymore. (that and i'm pretty sure Tite Kubo doesn't know a thing about swordsmanship, neither do I for that matter but i can bullsh*t that I do pretty well).

Anyways yeah, you both have very valid points. I just don't see why people say some people are only good because that are main characters. I can see characters getting lucky and many times they do. (Yuske Urameshi for example) However that doesn't mean they aren't skilled or powerful.

Sorry if I offended anyone and thank you guys for actually taking the time to read this.

Yusuke Urameshi is kinda the polar opposite of Ichigo when you stop to think about it. Yusuke starts out as a vice-ridden good-for-nothing punk whose ONLY notable skill is brawling (and cheating, on occasion). Ichigo starts out as a fairly average guy with no particularly strong points and a Crouching Moron Hidden Badass dad secretly drilling him from day one. Yusuke is good at improvising and is actually a good deal smarter than he lets on, though he DOES get lucky (check the Genkai succession arc after he ressurrects, or the beginning of the Sensui arc for what I'm talking about). Ichigo essentially pulls things out of his ass when things get tough and is dumb as an effin' brick.

Like I said, predictions are a mixed bag when it comes to things like this. It's kinda like the good old sword versus spear or tonfa vs. whatever discussion. Every time it starts off with the assumption that each user is equal in terms of skill, then someone suggests a move that could be used, and someone else mentions that kind of move would mean one is more skilled than the other, etc..

I use the term "battle" because "martial arts" doesn't really apply here.

The Void, the Cold Steel, the Just Sword courtesy of Prime32.

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I met a girl with a really pensive look. I walk up to her, put a fifty cent coin in her hand, "For your thoughts. I know the going rate is supposed to be one, but I figure you play hardball."

She gave it back, "Keep it. Pretty sure a guy with your charm can find a way to have them for free anyway."

While I don't disagree with the notion that experience and skill can only get you so far, my theory regarding Ichigo is more along the lines of "he's the series' main character and has so much deus ex machina going for him that it's not funny". See the Ulquiorra fight for what I mean.

That might be the narrative, meta-textual reason, but remember: we're also writing a similar story, and putting characters in similar positions. We have characters who're barely adults, characters who've lived for centuries, and characters who might've as well existed forever as far as either of the former categories is interested. Yet we'll place (and have placed) characters from all of these categories at odds with each other. Because of this, it pays to think why and how these things could happen for in-story reasons as well.

Originally Posted by Kuroimaken

There are WAY more than three factors that decide a battle.

The point is that they boil down to that trinity. Ability to analyze your opponent, using the battlefield to your advantage, technique, "not screwing up" are all facets of skill. Fitness is how hard and fast you can do those things, and willpower is how willing you are to do any of them.

Those three things pretty much cover anything the combatants themselves can bring to the table. All the other little things are so fuzzy they're best summed up under the concept of "luck", and I've also heard it said that outcome of any battle between equal participants is 80% of that.

"It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."

Because of those ages, characters in the first category pretty much can only beat characters in the second category through such immense willpower or literally beyond superhuman fitness. There's just no possible way any Mortal could amass a skill in combat greater than that of a Shinigami, because the Shinigami are older (barring exceptionally young Shinigami or, like, Bount). So their immense willpower would have to cover that weakness. And even then they'd need fitness to match someone who's trained for combat situations for (at least for most Shinigami) half a century at worst. Seems unlikely.

Luck is always going to be a huge factor in any of the threats the Mortal cast faces. It will always be some combination of Willpower ("I have to win" vs. "They're just kids") and just dumb Luck.

That might be the narrative, meta-textual reason, but remember: we're also writing a similar story, and putting characters in similar positions. We have characters who're barely adults, characters who've lived for centuries, and characters who might've as well existed forever as far as either of the former categories is interested. Yet we'll place (and have placed) characters from all of these categories at odds with each other. Because of this, it pays to think why and how these things could happen for in-story reasons as well.

The point is that they boil down to that trinity. Ability to analyze your opponent, using the battlefield to your advantage, technique, "not screwing up" are all facets of skill. Fitness is how hard and fast you can do those things, and willpower is how willing you are to do any of them.

Those three things pretty much cover anything the combatants themselves can bring to the table. All the other little things are so fuzzy they're best summed up under the concept of "luck", and I've also heard it said that outcome of any battle between equal participants is 80% of that.

The first point I can't really argue with. I make it a point never to have one of my characters leave a battle unscathed (sparring doesn't count, and neither does the curbstomp humiliation battle spar between Jiro and Kazuma), though I tend to take it a little more easily on my mortal world characters. That said, we've rigged battles to go one way or the other for the sake of the story before.
I've also made it a point to give each of my characters at least one major flaw when it comes to combat - Kazuma, for example, is exceptionally skilled and strong for his age as a shinigami, but he's also incredibly reckless; Hasunaga pretty much has a time limit on how long he can fight (given the way his Reiatsu generation works), plus he has to fight in a fairly specific way, and he doesn't do well on continuous battles; Reiji doesn't have the means to move incredibly fast like other characters can, and has no means to survive violently massive wounds (unless we're going with this); Rouga is slow and, despite having massive defensive power, has fewer attack capabilities to speak of; Serazel has little attack power, so he's screwed against an opponent with high defensive power (plus psychological issues); Subject 1864 is limited to how much power he's allowed to let out at any given time, which is often probably not enough; Shishiou can't make use of the full extent of his shikai on all points at once, so if he misjudges which one to use, he gets hurt badly (plus issues when he goes into hot blood mode); and finally, Soushi has limited defensive capabilities and doesn't stand up that well to pressure in melee.

Fundamentally, I believe there is no perfect fighter. Each and every last one has at least one major or minor flaw that can be exploited to achieve victory in some way, and even being aware of that flaw does not necessarily make it go away; worse, if it makes the fighter worried, he'll be unable to focus on other things. Some fighting styles also have inherent strengths over others, which makes some match-ups more likely to go in a certain way than others (though it's by no means predetermined). These are only two in a list of endless things that we can use in narrative to make a battle end satisfactorily before we resort to something like "luck".

Last edited by Kuroimaken; 2011-11-19 at 08:22 AM.

The Void, the Cold Steel, the Just Sword courtesy of Prime32.

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I met a girl with a really pensive look. I walk up to her, put a fifty cent coin in her hand, "For your thoughts. I know the going rate is supposed to be one, but I figure you play hardball."

She gave it back, "Keep it. Pretty sure a guy with your charm can find a way to have them for free anyway."

Masaru: Mid-fight, probably making Kazuma's eyes widen a bit at the very least.Yoshi: Waiting for Terry's response (you had to wait a couple days for mine, I can be patient).Kaito: Waiting for any other responses at meeting before we move forward. Leaving the cafe. Since that scene's decidedly dead anyways.Josiah: SCIENCE! Otherwise, free for someone to drop in.Vicente: SCIENCE! Otherwise, free for someone to drop in. Still waiting on Kayne and Riccaru to move their scene along (last post was by Kayne, so ball's to riccaru now). Cackling Oni: Wouldn't you like to know? Endo Shin: Not actually active yet. I need to finalize him and put him in the registry...

I think I'm going to go make a post with Kaito, and then insist to all MW players (most of whom have disappeared) that we just cut to the next day or something.

Seriously, bad enough our little meeting stalled out. Bad enough it seems like a couple of folks have basically ditched this game, or worse, are only post 1 time per month or less (which ends up being the same thing as dropping, since no one wants to wait a month for a reply). But Kayne's disappeared, which means no Samsara plot.

Anyways...*Wanders off to make what posts he can*

Oh, incidentally, I'm still not sure what to build for Endo Shin's Higher Hakuda. I'm even open to using one already made if the creator doesn't mind.

Sora Cleared. Cleared of all charges!HECATE In standby for creativity to strike.Karite Waiting for Friggin Kayne to friggin postCecilia Waiting for AnimeKid to respond to her softcore insinuations.Shades Not doing anything, because she's a Samsara stuck in the Valley.

yeah, sry about posting speed guys, I can only make short posts on my PS3 because of how tedious it is and my laptops charger stopped working. I will try to get on the home computer tonight, if not tommorow.

I don't remember whether I did anything in Mortal World, but I did think I did. In any case I support moving forward.

We should get the Hunting Down Takeshi Plot and the Samsara Plot running before the end of the year. If Kayne's not here, does anyone want to take up the Samsara plot? If not, does anyone want to do anything in the middle time to help make way for it? I am perfectly willing to work on something. I have a character who is basically a plot in and of herself in the works.

How the hell could Sereg know about Vicente and Talon's plan. They never mentioned it around him. How could he know that the two random Arrancar were against him. Is he freaking Doctor Strange? And then there's the blatant godmodding with you killing two characters, and then more godmodding with you discovering the location of Talon's lair even though, if I recall correctly, Talon blindfolded them when she brought them there and back.

I would simply like to know if Kayne gave the okay for this, regardless of whether or not he doesn't post anymore, and why, if he didn't, you didn't consult me. Because it's unbelievably inconsiderate if so.

On the plus side, we're talking about two supernaturally tough creatures here. Caja Negacion is technically not a death sentence, and Bleach has enough examples of Overdrawn at the Blood Bank that we can believe the other girl is merely badly mangled.

With that said... yeah, there be some 'splainin' to do.

The Void, the Cold Steel, the Just Sword courtesy of Prime32.

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I met a girl with a really pensive look. I walk up to her, put a fifty cent coin in her hand, "For your thoughts. I know the going rate is supposed to be one, but I figure you play hardball."

She gave it back, "Keep it. Pretty sure a guy with your charm can find a way to have them for free anyway."