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Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

How did he?

I meant as in, I'm not saying what I said about Obito and Kakashi's Mangekyo out of bias, but out of what I observed. Despite what you think, I don't let bias come into play, at least not since I voted that Jiraiya would beat Kakuzu.

Funnily, Obito's face made me think he was a horrible character. Just screamed like a whiny idiot to me. <_<

But yeah, I'm a fan of Kakashi, and do dislike Tobi for what he did to Minato, Naruto, and Kushina.

Um... "events" happening isn't really an excuse. Their ability to adapt emotionally was completely unreasonable, especially compared to what other characters have had to deal with.

Quote:

And really, how can you call them "warmongering psychopaths" when we saw the leaders of said coup willing allow their beloved son to choose the opposition's side and kill them.

Yeah, so honorable that they created the very situation that Itachi was forced into. In fact this makes them even worse in my opinion. They thought they were using Itachi for the sake of the clan's coup. Yeah his dad was proud of him for having conviction, but that doesn't make him less of a bad person.

Um... "events" happening isn't really an excuse. Their ability to adapt emotionally was completely unreasonable, especially compared to what other characters have had to deal with.

Um, what? Who exactly are you talking about. We've seen various ninjas react similar to events not as bad or similar. Zabuza, Orochimaru, Nagato and Konan, nearly all the Jinchuuriki, etc. A whole major theme of the series has been how easy people can be effected by the world around them and without love to fill them, can turn bad. This point was pointed out by Naruto, and repeated several times since.

Originally Posted by badluckartist

Yeah, so honorable that they created the very situation that Itachi was forced into. In fact this makes them even worse in my opinion. They thought they were using Itachi for the sake of the clan's coup. Yeah his dad was proud of him for having conviction, but that doesn't make him less of a bad person.

Except they didn't create the situation. The Kyuubi Assault was an outsider's action and the coup began due to Konoha's discrimination and taking their political power. They did nothing but react to what was going on around them.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Um... "events" happening isn't really an excuse. Their ability to adapt emotionally was completely unreasonable, especially compared to what other characters have had to deal with.

Other characters like Gaara? He sure took his childhood problems in stride and didn't turn into a psycho. Or Nagato, who's idea of promoting peace started with vengeance against Hanzo, where he killed him, his family, his friends, their family, and everyone else in passing inorder to "teach them pain" (which is an AWESOME example, considering he's part Senju, meaning the "Senju=Good, Uchiha=Bad BS is more easily squashed).

You'll claim that "niether Nagato nor Gaara are an entire clan, and they eventually stopped being batshit crazy", but it's just another example of how people are finding it way too easy to ignore how easy it is for a group of people to be sheparded into a hate act just by exploiting emotions over a long period of time. It's happened in real life with the events that lead towards WWII.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Originally Posted by ninjabot

meaning the "Senju=Good, Uchiha=Bad BS is more easily squashed

I don't think the series tried to show us that, considering the Uchiha clan was exterminated by orders of the Konoha elders... there are plenty of Senju who are evil, like Orochimaru or Danzou as far we know, while Itachi or Shisui are good guys.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Originally Posted by Fox666

I don't think the series tried to show us that, considering the Uchiha clan was exterminated by orders of the Konoha elders... there are plenty of Senju who are evil, like Orochimaru or Danzou as far we know, while Itachi or Shisui are good guys.

Orochimaru and Danzou aren't Senju's.
On the other hand, Niidaime Hokage was a fine piece of crap, and number 1 contender to the throne of worst Hokage ever
Creates Edo Tensei, then lets it hang around, begins the Uchiha repression thing, dies against fodders ANBU when Obito killed them like nothing.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

I actually agree with this. If it were Tsukuyomi I think he'd claim as much. And the fact that it was completely white to begin with doesn't mean all that much. Literally EVERY Genjutsu is the result of some guy deciding what illusion you see/hear/feel. What we saw is likely a Genjutsu in it's conceptual stage. Obito's chakra was distorted so that it would see what Madara wanted him to see, but since Madara didn't know what he wanted him to see (and the scope and complexity of the things he'd see would be determined by the amount of chakra he place into the technique potentially) we saw nothing but white, which is something easy to show someone.

Genjutsu is said to rely on impressive attention to detail aswell as picture perfect imaging and incredible intellect, because they have to make the world inside look as life-like as possible. This would take incredible chakra control and quick thinking, which is why Genjutsu users are literally smarter than everyone else.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood

On the other hand, am I the only one baffled at how Madara can use a Tsukuyomi-like genjutsu with his 3-tomoe, borrowed Sharingan?

Tsukuyomi-like, not Tsukuyomi ( even though the plan is called infinite Tsukuyomi ).
Its similar to Tsukuyomi because, like Tsukuyomi, Madara can literally control time and space in there, it seems a tad different from the usual genjutsu an Uchiha does.
And its done with a borrowed Sharingan, not even his own

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Originally Posted by ninjabot

I actually agree with this. If it were Tsukuyomi I think he'd claim as much. And the fact that it was completely white to begin with doesn't mean all that much. Literally EVERY Genjutsu is the result of some guy deciding what illusion you see/hear/feel. What we saw is likely a Genjutsu in it's conceptual stage. Obito's chakra was distorted so that it would see what Madara wanted him to see, but since Madara didn't know what he wanted him to see (and the scope and complexity of the things he'd see would be determined by the amount of chakra he place into the technique potentially) we saw nothing but white, which is something easy to show someone.

Genjutsu is said to rely on impressive attention to detail aswell as picture perfect imaging and incredible intellect, because they have to make the world inside look as life-like as possible. This would take incredible chakra control and quick thinking, which is why Genjutsu users are literally smarter than everyone else.

Really?

Does madara stated that the reason why those genjutsu world is just empty because they need the ten tails first before they can create anything on that genjutsu world? In fact, those empty genjutsu world is like the actual infinite tsukuyomi itself. Obito/madara needs to create their dream world first by using the ten tails, then they'll going to cast that tsukuyomi to anyone by using the moon.

If the genjutsu users are literally smarter than everyone else, then does it mean that the entire uchiha clan are literally smarter to everyone else in the konoha? Oh Noh. The uchiha has the tools for genjutsu, their sharingans. So they don't need an incredibly intellect to cast/create a genjutsu, because their sharingans are all they need.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Originally Posted by marshall313

If the genjutsu users are literally smarter than everyone else, then does it mean that the entire uchiha clan are literally smarter to everyone else in the konoha? Oh Noh. The uchiha has the tools for genjutsu, their sharingans. So they don't need an incredibly intellect to cast/create a genjutsu, because their sharingans are all they need.

Only a handful of Uchiha's possess the Sharingan -> Those who did were considered elite compared to everyone else -> Someone who's elite would likely have above-average intelligences.

They would need a high intellect to perfectly recreate an scene to fool another. Now that may not mean they were Shikamaru level of genius, but so far all the Sharingan user's we've seen have been pretty intelligent strategy/tactical-wise.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

I don't think Madara's genjutsu was Tsukuyomi. Anyone who could use genjutsu well enough should be able to do something like that. That's probably default genjutsu without any work put in? Shouldn't be hard for someone who was good with genjutsu and has Sharingan.