Pondering Her Percy wrote:I see what you're saying. It's tough though because I feel Bevell wasnt given much to work with other than Wilson, Baldwin and Graham. Their offensive lineman were a bunch of bums, they had no RBs worth a nickel and outside of Baldwin their WRs were below average. I mean they had the 15th ranked total offense which isnt horrible given what he had to work with. We saw first hand what it was like not having an OL and RB last season. And our offense was much worse than 15th. We were 28th. And that was with a halfway decent QB, good TE and good WRs. Fans questioned Shurmur last year because of that. And in one year, with good RBs and a much improved OL, he made a giant jump with this offense

That's a good point.

Bevell isn't an ideal choice but he had a good 3 or 4 years in Seattle with top 10 offenses and if the choices are just Bevell, Stefanski or Haley, I'd take Bevell 10 out of 10 times. I wonder who else they might interview.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
I never thought I would hear anyone wanting Bevell back and making excuses for him. The facts are he wasnt very good his first time around, and the reason we were good this year, had a lot to do with Shurmur.

Not making excuses for him?? Answer me this, why was our offense 28th in the league last year?? Does that not fall on Shurmur?? It does right? Seattle had pretty much what we had last year. A terrible OL (even worse than ours in 2016) and no running game. Why does Shurmur get let off the hook for that but Bevell doesnt? Bevell at least still had some success with that offense this year scoring over 22 points a game (11th in the league) with zero offensive line and RB. Shurmur didnt have hardly any success last year with our offense. And lets not forget, Shurmur was the OC AFTER the 5-0 start.

I dont get how everyone is talking up Shurmur like he was some God of an OC. He had one good year and left. And we had the 11th total offense in the NFL this year. Did he do a good job this year? Yeah. But everyone questioned him last year. Including me. In the last 3 years, Bevell had the #11, #4 and #9 total offenses in the NFL. And please dont go down the "Well he had Russell Wilson" trail. Look at his offense when he had Lynch. When he has the talent he has been very successful the past 3 years.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
I never thought I would hear anyone wanting Bevell back and making excuses for him. The facts are he wasnt very good his first time around, and the reason we were good this year, had a lot to do with Shurmur.

Not making excuses for him?? Answer me this, why was our offense 28th in the league last year?? Does that not fall on Shurmur?? It does right? Seattle had pretty much what we had last year. A terrible OL (even worse than ours in 2016) and no running game. Why does Shurmur get let off the hook for that but Bevell doesnt? Bevell at least still had some success with that offense this year scoring over 22 points a game (11th in the league) with zero offensive line and RB. Shurmur didnt have hardly any success last year with our offense. And lets not forget, Shurmur was the OC AFTER the 5-0 start.

I dont get how everyone is talking up Shurmur like he was some God of an OC. He had one good year and left. And we had the 11th total offense in the NFL this year. Did he do a good job this year? Yeah. But everyone questioned him last year. Including me. In the last 3 years, Bevell had the #11, #4 and #9 total offenses in the NFL. And please dont go down the "Well he had Russell Wilson" trail. Look at his offense when he had Lynch. When he has the talent he has been very successful the past 3 years.

Norv started last year and the abruptly quit. Then Shurmur had to pick up the pieces. How do you not remember that or acknowledge that?

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PurpleKoolaid wrote:
I never thought I would hear anyone wanting Bevell back and making excuses for him. The facts are he wasnt very good his first time around, and the reason we were good this year, had a lot to do with Shurmur.

Not making excuses for him?? Answer me this, why was our offense 28th in the league last year?? Does that not fall on Shurmur?? It does right? Seattle had pretty much what we had last year. A terrible OL (even worse than ours in 2016) and no running game. Why does Shurmur get let off the hook for that but Bevell doesnt? Bevell at least still had some success with that offense this year scoring over 22 points a game (11th in the league) with zero offensive line and RB. Shurmur didnt have hardly any success last year with our offense. And lets not forget, Shurmur was the OC AFTER the 5-0 start.

I dont get how everyone is talking up Shurmur like he was some God of an OC. He had one good year and left. And we had the 11th total offense in the NFL this year. Did he do a good job this year? Yeah. But everyone questioned him last year. Including me. In the last 3 years, Bevell had the #11, #4 and #9 total offenses in the NFL. And please dont go down the "Well he had Russell Wilson" trail. Look at his offense when he had Lynch. When he has the talent he has been very successful the past 3 years.

Norv started last year and the abruptly quit. Then Shurmur had to pick up the pieces. How do you not remember that or acknowledge that?

He actually did acknowledge it (see the text I highlighted in bold above).

PurpleMustReign wrote:Norv started last year and the abruptly quit. Then Shurmur had to pick up the pieces. How do you not remember that or acknowledge that?

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I did as stated above. And it's not like Shurmur made any kind of drastic turn around after Turner quit. They were still a bottom barrel offense. Lets not sit here and pretend we dont know why Shurmur had more success this year. A.) A running game. We were literally loaded top to bottom at RB. More depth at that position than anyone in the NFL B.) Drastic improvement to the OL. Pretty sure we were top 10 in the league when it came to giving up sacks.

I cant really say QB simply because if you look, Bradfords 2016 stats and Case's 2017 stats were very similar. Case just had way more to work with than Bradford did.

I do give Shurmur credit with Case. But still, he had ONE good year as an OC. And did nothing with nothing in 2016. Bevell still had an above average offense with very very little.

Whether you like Bevell or not, to say Shurmur is above and beyond the OC Bevell is just isnt accurate. Very small sample size for Shurmur and a fairly large one for Bevell that has been quite successful over recent years. Lets not forget, he also had offenses that were good enough to make it to Super Bowls.

PurpleMustReign wrote:Norv started last year and the abruptly quit. Then Shurmur had to pick up the pieces. How do you not remember that or acknowledge that?

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I did as stated above. And it's not like Shurmur made any kind of drastic turn around after Turner quit. They were still a bottom barrel offense. Lets not sit here and pretend we dont know why Shurmur had more success this year. A.) A running game. We were literally loaded top to bottom at RB. More depth at that position than anyone in the NFL B.) Drastic improvement to the OL. Pretty sure we were top 10 in the league when it came to giving up sacks.

I cant really say QB simply because if you look, Bradfords 2016 stats and Case's 2017 stats were very similar. Case just had way more to work with than Bradford did.

I do give Shurmur credit with Case. But still, he had ONE good year as an OC. And did nothing with nothing in 2016. Bevell still had an above average offense with very very little.

Whether you like Bevell or not, to say Shurmur is above and beyond the OC Bevell is just isnt accurate. Very small sample size for Shurmur and a fairly large one for Bevell that has been quite successful over recent years. Lets not forget, he also had offenses that were good enough to make it to Super Bowls.

Gimme a break, the majority of norv's offense was literally run 4 verticals down the field, these guys had a lot to learn and Shurmur had a ton of changes to implement, it's not going to happen mid season when you're still trying to win games in the now. It takes offenses a full training camp and sometimes they don't start clicking well into the season and that's having the same offense in place from day 1.

I'm not here saying Shurmur is some kind of god over Bevell, I vastly prefer Shurmur obviously but to act like he should have just had these guys humming after taking over mid season and then acting like that's enough to say he's no big loss doesn't sit well for me. Especially when you're going to talk about "he had one good year" when his one "bad" year was trying to salvage the disaster that was Norv's offense mid season.

PurpleMustReign wrote:Norv started last year and the abruptly quit. Then Shurmur had to pick up the pieces. How do you not remember that or acknowledge that?

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I did as stated above. And it's not like Shurmur made any kind of drastic turn around after Turner quit. They were still a bottom barrel offense. Lets not sit here and pretend we dont know why Shurmur had more success this year. A.) A running game. We were literally loaded top to bottom at RB. More depth at that position than anyone in the NFL B.) Drastic improvement to the OL. Pretty sure we were top 10 in the league when it came to giving up sacks.

I cant really say QB simply because if you look, Bradfords 2016 stats and Case's 2017 stats were very similar. Case just had way more to work with than Bradford did.

I do give Shurmur credit with Case. But still, he had ONE good year as an OC. And did nothing with nothing in 2016. Bevell still had an above average offense with very very little.

Whether you like Bevell or not, to say Shurmur is above and beyond the OC Bevell is just isnt accurate. Very small sample size for Shurmur and a fairly large one for Bevell that has been quite successful over recent years. Lets not forget, he also had offenses that were good enough to make it to Super Bowls.

Gimme a break, the majority of norv's offense was literally run 4 verticals down the field, these guys had a lot to learn and Shurmur had a ton of changes to implement, it's not going to happen mid season when you're still trying to win games in the now. It takes offenses a full training camp and sometimes they don't start clicking well into the season and that's having the same offense in place from day 1.

I'm not here saying Shurmur is some kind of god over Bevell, I vastly prefer Shurmur obviously but to act like he should have just had these guys humming after taking over mid season and then acting like that's enough to say he's no big loss doesn't sit well for me. Especially when you're going to talk about "he had one good year" when his one "bad" year was trying to salvage the disaster that was Norv's offense mid season.

Turner led them to a 5-0 start! He’s always been a solid OC in previous years when Hes had something to work with . You wanna go back to Shurmurs career? Ok. What has he done ever outside of this year? Please enlighten me. Would I like to keep him? Yeah because he knows this team but the guy has had little success anywhere. Bevell has. You guys are literally basing this off ONE year. He’s been a flop every other place he’s been. You “vastly” prefer Shurmur why? Because of his track record? I hope not. You’re ignoring the credibility of Bevell. Again top 10 offenses with little to work with. There was a reason Shurmur was just a TE coach a few years ago. He had little success until now. Until you give me a reason why Shurmur is better than Bevell I don’t know what you expect. ONE good year. Bevell had multiple. Case closed

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Turner led them to a 5-0 start! He’s always been a solid OC in previous years when Hes had something to work with . You wanna go back to Shurmurs career? Ok. What has he done ever outside of this year? Please enlighten me. Would I like to keep him? Yeah because he knows this team but the guy has had little success anywhere. Bevell has. You guys are literally basing this off ONE year. He’s been a flop every other place he’s been. You “vastly” prefer Shurmur why? Because of his track record? I hope not. You’re ignoring the credibility of Bevell. Again top 10 offenses with little to work with. There was a reason Shurmur was just a TE coach a few years ago. He had little success until now. Until you give me a reason why Shurmur is better than Bevell I don’t know what you expect. ONE good year. Bevell had multiple. Case closed

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Turner led them to a 5-0 start! He’s always been a solid OC in previous years when Hes had something to work with . You wanna go back to Shurmurs career? Ok. What has he done ever outside of this year? Please enlighten me. Would I like to keep him? Yeah because he knows this team but the guy has had little success anywhere. Bevell has. You guys are literally basing this off ONE year. He’s been a flop every other place he’s been. You “vastly” prefer Shurmur why? Because of his track record? I hope not. You’re ignoring the credibility of Bevell. Again top 10 offenses with little to work with. There was a reason Shurmur was just a TE coach a few years ago. He had little success until now. Until you give me a reason why Shurmur is better than Bevell I don’t know what you expect. ONE good year. Bevell had multiple. Case closed

Pat shurmur, just a tight end coach guys...

I love how you ignore what I asked but just focus on that and try to stray people away from my opinion. AGAIN, what has Pat Shurmur done in his career that makes him so much better than Bevell? I would love to hear this answer. Because when you look at track records, it’s next to nothing. AGAIN, Shurmur had.....one good year. Just answer the question.

Shurmer is HC of NYG: So we are not getting him.
Turner is the OC of CAR: So we are not getting him.
Bevell is interviewing with the Vikings: We might get him.

So who cares about Turner and Shurmer at this point?

For the record: I do not feel like Bevell is an exciting hire. In fact, I think he could be a detrimental hire. As I said previously, his track record in the NFL hasn't shown much individual greatness. Quite the opposite actually.

I'd rather have a McAdoo or someone new who has shown innovation and an ability to add something to the team.

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mansquatch wrote:Why are you guys arguing about Shurmer, Turner, and Bevell?

Shurmer is HC of NYG: So we are not getting him.
Turner is the OC of CAR: So we are not getting him.
Bevell is interviewing with the Vikings: We might get him.

So who cares about Turner and Shurmer at this point?

For the record: I do not feel like Bevell is an exciting hire. In fact, I think he could be a detrimental hire. As I said previously, his track record in the NFL hasn't shown much individual greatness. Quite the opposite actually.

I'd rather have a McAdoo or someone new who has shown innovation and an ability to add something to the team.

To have a top 15 offense the last two years with no real running game or OL is pretty solid if you ask me. I hate McAdoo. He might be a good OC but after what he did with Eli, I have zero respect for him. I don’t think his own players had any respect for him. That’s not a good sign in a coach. If Bevell can maintain top 15 offenses with a lot less than what we have, I have confidence he could do it here. Let’s put it this way, when was the last time Bevell had a “bad” offense?

The reason Shurmur and Turner were brought up was because it was pertaining to my point about having Shurmur compared to Bevell. We lost an OC that had one good year. Big deal. Does it suck? Sure. But he wasn’t anything special as an OC. He’s had little success in previous years. Bevell on the other hand, has. Point being, I think Bevell would be a solid replacement for Shurmur. Especially with McCoy out of the picture

mansquatch wrote:Why are you guys arguing about Shurmer, Turner, and Bevell?

Shurmer is HC of NYG: So we are not getting him.
Turner is the OC of CAR: So we are not getting him.
Bevell is interviewing with the Vikings: We might get him.

So who cares about Turner and Shurmer at this point?

For the record: I do not feel like Bevell is an exciting hire. In fact, I think he could be a detrimental hire. As I said previously, his track record in the NFL hasn't shown much individual greatness. Quite the opposite actually.

He's coordinated 3 top 10 offenses, has a Super Bowl ring as an OC, has coached as an OC in 3 conference championships and 2 Super Bowls, has had numerous top 5 rushing teams... all of that is the opposite of greatness? I understand the desire for something fresh and innovative and I'm not saying Bevell's a great offensive coordinator but his resume as an OC is actually quite impressive and it's both more extensive and more accomplished than McAdoo's.

It will be interesting to see which way they go. I think it would be good to get someone who already has play-calling experience but you never know when you hire someone who hasn't been an offensive coordinator you might be getting the next great innovative mind.