satan

in listening to people, both laymen and pastor's it seems that some almost think in terms of satan being something that the bible doesn't support. omniscience-satan can read peoples minds and knows what people are thinking, what your plans are and how to subvert them
omnipresence-satan can be messing with me and a thousand other people at the same time.
omnipotence-most stop short of this in words and yet constantly talk of satan this and satan that creating the problems that people face. satan does not have much "bible time" and yet seems to get much "pulpit time".

do you see satan as a spiritual(no physical) being that has the power to read minds, be in more than one place at a time, and have the power to subvert what God is doing in a person's life?

I see Satan as a spiritual being with greater power than humans (like an angel) but nowhere near the power of God (like an angel). He is definitely NOT omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent.

The Bible describes him as a created being with great power and beauty. He is deceitful. He is prideful. He roams to and fro, seeking whom he may devour. But he is not God.

I agree with you that we tend to think Satan is more powerful than he is. He is a defeated foe. He can not read my mind and put tempting thoughts there. I am tempted when I am drawn away and enticed by my own lusts.

Yeah, I think Satan gets too much attention. He's not omniscient, he's not omnipresent, definitely not omnipotent. I don't know whether he can tell what you're thinking or not. It's possible he and his cohort have built up so much knowledge about how people work that he can have a very good general idea, plus of course if they pay attention to what you say and write that provides a lot of input. It appears C. S. Lewis thought Satan and other demons could read people's minds, and if they can possess people that makes sense. I think Satan has to be capable of giving us suggestions because otherwise there's not much he can do.

We have no idea how many demons there are, so perhaps Satan could attain virtual omnipresence just by force of numbers. Of course then since demons aren't omniscient there has to be a limit to how much networking they can do at one time, causing inefficiency in the creation of maximum chaos.

Most of what we see going on I think people do all on their lonesome without any demonic help, though. I don't think we even really need Satan and other demons' existence in order to maintain a notable level of badness.

and exactly who are demons? all surely are creation of God, therefore are they fallen angels? Jude 1:6 niv says
6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.
the key would be in the translation of the kept in darkness as oppossed to the kjv translation of "hath reserved"
does anyone who supports the notion that demons and satan can read minds have biblical support for this?

Where does Satan come from? Only God knows; no one else. No where in Scripture is the origin of Satan and evil made known. However, almost from the beginning of Scripture, Satan and evil are there.

The Old Testament Scriptures are particularly sketchy, almost silent, about the person Satan. The actual name Satan appears only 15 times, 11 of those in the Book of Job. In each case Satan is identified as an adversary [Job 1&2, 1 Chronicles 21:1, Psalm 109:6, and Zechariah 3:1,2]. For example:

1 Chronicles 21:1, KJV And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

The New Testament Scriptures are more informative about the person of Satan but still provide no information about his origin. The word Satan appears 34 times in the New Testament. Thayer’s Greek English Lexicon gives the meaning of the Greek word translated Satan as: adversary [one who opposes another in purpose or act] and is the name given to the prince of evil spirits, the inveterate adversary of God and Christ.

The New Testament Scriptures also use the name devil in reference to the evil one. The word appears 35 times in the New Testament. Thayer’s Greek English Lexicon gives the meaning of the Greek word translated devil as: prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely. Although the word devil does not always refer to Satan in the New Testament it frequently does, as shown in the following passage.

Matthew 4:10,11, KJV Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

1. Jesus Christ tells us that Satan [or the devil] was a murderer from the beginning and the father of lies.

John 8:44, KJV Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Thayer’s Greek English Lexicon gives the meaning of the Greek word translated beginning as 1] beginning, origin; 2] the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader; 3] that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause. The same Greek word is used in John 1:1. We know that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son and have generally understood beginning as used in John 1:1 in that light. Satan, however, can not be considered eternal. The beginning used in reference to Satan must refer to that time when Satan came into existence.

2. The Apostle John tells us that Satan [or the devil] sinned from the beginning.

1 John 3:8, KJV He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The word beginning used above is the English translation of the same Greek word that appears in John 8:44. Thus it appears that Satan has been a sinner since his origin.

3. He is called a deceiver and serpent, this latter possibly a reference to the one who tempted Eve.

Revelation 12:9, KJV And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

4. He is called the prince of this world and prince of the power of the air.

John 12:31, KJV Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Ephesians 2:2, KJV Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

5. Satan’s power is limited by Jesus Christ. Scripture teaches that he has been defeated and bound.

Matthew 12:28,29, KJV But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Hebrews 2:14, KJV “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”

1 John 4:3,4, KJV And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

6. The ultimate defeat of Satan is assured. His end is to share the fate of those who follow him.

Revelation 20:10, KJV And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The above passages reveal something about the person of Satan, his limited power, and his ultimate defeat. They tell nothing about his origin. There are those who believe and teach that Satan was an angel who was cast out of Heaven because of his rebellion against God. The basis for this is presumably Isaiah 14:4, 12-16 and Ezekiel 28:12-19. Study of the passage from Isaiah in the context of Chapter 14 will show that the subject of this passage, Lucifer, was the name used for a Babylonian king under judgment of God [Isaiah 14:4]. Isaiah 14:16 reiterates that Lucifer was mere man.

Isaiah 14:4, 12-16, KJV4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Similarly a study of the passage from Ezekiel in the context of Chapter 28 shows that the passage deals with God’s judgment of the king of Tyre.

Ezekiel 28:12-19, KJV12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

It is conceivable that both of these accounts present a type of Satan. However, the creation story of Genesis 1 & 2 teaches that everything the eternal God created was good. Angels are created beings.

What then can be said about Satan and evil?

1. Satan is a personal being, he is not simply an evil force.

2. Satan is not, cannot be eternal.

3. Satan had a beginning and is, therefore, a created being.

4. Satan is the embodiment of evil and is the original source of evil.

5. Satan was a murderer and liar from his beginning.

6. Satan’s doom, and the doom of his followers, is certain.

The Apostle Paul wrote of ‘the mystery of iniquity’ [2 Thessalonians 2:7] saying: For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

It is perhaps best to go no further but leave his origin a mystery until Christ's chosen appear with Him in glory .

Satan is styled the "accuser of the brethren" (Revelation 12:10. Compare Job 1:6; Zechariah 3:1), as seeking to uphold his influence among men by bringing false charges against Christians, with the view of weakening their influence and injuring the cause with which they are identified. He was regarded by the Jews as the accuser of men before God, laying to their charge the violations of the law of which they were guilty, and demanding their punishment. The same Greek word, rendered "accuser," is found in John 8:10 (but omitted in the Revised Version); Acts 23:30,35; 24:8; 25:16,18, in all of which places it is used of one who brings a charge against another

excellent post oldregular, and amen to the rest of you. it seems that if a post has nothing to do with calvinism or dispinsationalism it is not worth discussing. however, tatortot has hit a very important observation, christians seem to be the ones that give all the power to satan. thanks for the replies

Even as a teenager, I thought that was kind of funny...we often wondered...since satan was "quoted" on Carman's albums frontwards...we always wanted to know what would happen if you played Carman's records backwards...who would you hear?

Originally posted by slow to learn: excellent post oldregular, and amen to the rest of you. it seems that if a post has nothing to do with calvinism or dispinsationalism it is not worth discussing. however, tatortot has hit a very important observation, christians seem to be the ones that give all the power to satan. thanks for the replies

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Didn't you hear that John Calvin was both a satanist and a closet dispensationalist?