I heard from a customer today that Loewe Televisions were the best that money could buy and that they are not legal to sell in the United States, and that Mark Cuban of the Dallas Mavericks actually wholesales them somehow. I have done a lot of searching but with no luck. Anyone have any idea?
Zach

The customer was telling me to do research on the reason why they are not available in the U.S. anymore, almost like it was gonna be a huge surprise to me when i found out as if they had some amazing technology. Thanks again.
Zach

Honestly, I don't think you need to worry that you're missing something. Loewe probably buys its LCD and/or plasma panels from the same manufacturers as other vendors do. They might tweak it in their own special way, but given the stellar reviews given to other sets, I can't see them making any dramatic improvement over the best well-known brands.

I know back around 2000 they made some incredible CRT's with probably the darkest tube Ive ever seen on a tv when powered off.

A few people I knew who regularly traveled to Europe that were in the Tech sector brought back their 36' model and it was pretty damn nice.

Looked more like art than a tv when used with their stand,Sony could learn a thing or two about style from them. Nowdays as they are LCD's I would have to agree with the poster above and say they probably wont be much different than any other quality unit.

i sold them for a few years. they did make a good CRT but it was not very bright, you needed a dark living room for it. The 38" 16:9 was based off the RCA tube but it was much better from what I saw. Those tv's had a ton of problems IMO, they once sent us a note saying that their reliability issues had been linked to a "bad forklift operator" and thats what was causing all the numerous failures. Either way, their digital displays were terrible and after that they quickly got out of the market here

loewe had a very good reputation in europe for its crt tv's. most models used phillips tube's, but loewe built all the additional circuit boards and hardware/software itself. as a german high end brand they were always more expensive than most other european brands, but their video display quality was extremely good.

the large crt models they sold in the usa used a different tube, and were specifically made for that market (their range of models was much smaller then those sold in europe). looking at the usa website, that part of their business has been discontinued. they stopped making crt tv's for the european market a couple of years ago, but now do sell flat screen lcd/plasma.

FWIW, they're still being sold and used in Europe -- a hotel I stayed in last week had one. They're a regular upscale brand, much like B&O, say. Can't say the image was anything particular, but then, I believe I was watching OTA French programming...

I paid major coin for my 36" Loewe from Myer-Emco, and it was a total disappointment. The geometry was off, and in spite of many hours on the phone with Loewe, numerous visits from technicians, it could not be fixed since the set did not have the necessary service menu - it would have to go back to the factory in Germany. Can you imagine this oversite? I had to force M-E to replace it (that's a story in itself), and I've been the happy owner of the replacement - a Sony 34" HDTV set - for years; a nearly perfect picture in every way.

My 38" Aconda has been a wonderful TV- I purchased this for a bit more than the Sony 960 cost at the time. The set has wonderful color right out of the box and displays all formats exceptionally well (except 720p)

The Aconda is not without issues- Loewe had to replace the power supply (a known weakness) under warranty about 2 years after I bought it. The RCA tube is curved on both axes and has somewhat low output so the set requires a fairly dark room. I do most of my viewing at night so this isn't a problem. The set also suffers imited connectivity options and the scaler seems to streak (blur) the image a bit on fast pans.

But with high quality content like a good HD-DVD, the image is wonderful and truly mezmerizing. The set can clearly betray the quality of any signal but it is also forgiving of poor quality content from satellite. Perhaps because its a tube.

For me, the Loewe was the perfect transition piece as we move from low rez analog to high rez digital. If I can get two more years out of this set I will be quite happy. When the power supply failed I looked at some plasma displays and felt I would have to spend above 5k to better the Aconda. I suppose that price point has dropped somewhat in the past year but I'll probably move to a projector next anyway.

Indeed, Loewe does buy their tubes from other manufacturers, RCA, Sharp, and from what I saw, allot of Phillips. I haven't heard anything about the illegality of sales in the US, as I believe they are quite available, but they are definately being serviced here.

We used to sell Loewe TV sets. Hit or miss it seems. I own a 38" and has been great. If I can get 5 years I will be happy. The DLP sets have been trouble. It seems that 50% of the 30/38" TV's have zero problems, but the ones that have problems seem to never work 100%. Service is challenging to say the least. I own a 42" Pro-940. CRT is smoother and has better black level, but HD on the plasma just pops off the screen. Can't wait to see the new Elite plasmas! Maybe the Loewe will go into the basement for the kids.

We used to sell Loewe TV sets. Hit or miss it seems. I own a 38" and has been great. If I can get 5 years I will be happy. The DLP sets have been trouble. It seems that 50% of the 30/38" TV's have zero problems, but the ones that have problems seem to never work 100%. Service is challenging to say the least. I own a 42" Pro-940. CRT is smoother and has better black level, but HD on the plasma just pops off the screen. Can't wait to see the new Elite plasmas! Maybe the Loewe will go into the basement for the kids.

The LCDs (Loewe only does LCD, had some SD plasma's, Fujitsu panels, digital processing, way back in the day, but has been an all-lcd outfit for many years), used to provide poor image quality, that has improved, but it are still LCDs.

Those large widescreen CRTs were using Thomson USA made tubes, a product for the US market, limited distribution in Europe, not sure, but don't think they were even in the EU catalog(s).

Actually, yes, I am laughing both at you and my former self who would have agreed with you on this before actually trying the nordost composite cable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzman

I can let the audio cable stuff slide, the whole 480i looking better than HD is just ridiculous.

I know it sounds ridiculous, and like I said above, I would have agreed with you till I tried it. You see, originally, I got the nordost composite cable for $50 as something of a joke and experiment. I used to laugh at people who buy these 'ridiculously' expensive video cables for videophile viewing. I thought of them as chumps.

Since it was only $50 at the time, really not that much more expensive than monsters, I thought what the heck.

My jaws 'dropped' at the pq improvement, with everything else the same. Tell you what, actually I wasn't really that impressed with Aconda when paired with monsters, even with ISF calibration. I thought, this is it? I felt I was ripped off. PQ was very mediocre. In fact, pretty bad.

Since TPV recommended bettercables as the best buy. I bought silverserpent? one and pq definitely improved over monsters, and I was fairly happy, but still I thought aconda was overrated. Then I got a chance to buy a nordost composite cable for $50, and since TPV recommended nordost cable as the BEST video calbe at the time, I thought to give it a try more as a joke than serious experiment.

This is when I totally changed my previous perception of 'cable magic'. Seriously, the colors just popped out, gorgeous colors, and the black level became inky black, and pq was positively 3d in a very natural way.

Bellieve it or not, I actually could see more details that I was missing before. Even to this day, I prefer my lowly 480i with nordost and isf calibration on aconda over the latetest HD on bigbox store. Color and black level are still 'better' with my aconda and nordost composite and isf calibration on a dark room, and especially with a dark scene than 1080i viewed at big box store with factory calibration.

You know what, that's what I hear, too, but my older Aconda 30", the one with transformer problem is still working, but then I never 'abused' it. Generally, I don't watch TV 'too long'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donaldk

The LCDs (Loewe only does LCD, had some SD plasma's, Fujitsu panels, digital processing, way back in the day, but has been an all-lcd outfit for many years), used to provide poor image quality, that has improved, but it are still LCDs.

In early 2000 I got hold of a Nordost S-Video cable (still have it). Given how ridiculously expensive it was even I fell for it at first. I replaced a regular old S-Video cable and thought "Yeah...yeah...you know, I think that DOES look better. Looks more clear, better color..."

Then I came to my senses and did a blind test between it, the lower end cable and a monster S-video cable. Guess what? Couldn't tell a damned difference once I didn't know which cable was in the system (a friend helped me).

I had the same experience with some super expensive AC cables. Thought I absolutely-no-one-can-tell-me-I'm-hearing-things heard a difference. Wasn't even sure I still liked my system the difference seemed so big. Then I blind tested the cable against a standard 15 dollar military-grade AC cable. No perceptible difference at all once I didn't know which cable was in the system.

I went on to do more blind testing of various levels of component video cables, even involving AVSmembers. Results: choice of "which image looked better" turned out no better than blind chance, statistically.

This is not news to people who actually know engineering, science and the research on human perception. It is news - though rejected - by people who want to stick with what they think they percieve.

Have you tried a true blind test with your Nordost vs any other cable? And any results, differences in contrast, color etcs would be OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruments, which are more sensitive in some ways than your eyes. You can find VASTLY cheaper cables made to broadcast video standards and it is magic-thinking to believe that Nordost will transmit a perceptibly better picture.

You will want to still "laugh" at all this no doubt, because you have come to rely so firmly on your personal subjective experience. "You can't tell me what I'm seeing!" It's not until you recognize just how fallible your subjectivity is - you are no less susceptible than anyone else to the effects of bias! - that you will be able to find out you are likely wrong. Scientists don't employ blind and double blind testing just to make their lives harder - it's necessary to get around the incredibly strong effects of our biases.

There's a reason you don't see cable manufacturers like Nordost supplying objective, measurable differences between images using their video cables vs a competently designed cheaper cable.

In early 2000 I got hold of a Nordost S-Video cable (still have it). Given how ridiculously expensive it was even I fell for it at first. I replaced a regular old S-Video cable and thought "Yeah...yeah...you know, I think that DOES look better. Looks more clear, better color..."

Then I came to my senses and did a blind test between it, the lower end cable and a monster S-video cable. Guess what? Couldn't tell a damned difference once I didn't know which cable was in the system (a friend helped me).

I had the same experience with some super expensive AC cables. Thought I absolutely-no-one-can-tell-me-I'm-hearing-things heard a difference. Wasn't even sure I still liked my system the difference seemed so big. Then I blind tested the cable against a standard 15 dollar military-grade AC cable. No perceptible difference at all once I didn't know which cable was in the system.

I went on to do more blind testing of various levels of component video cables, even involving AVSmembers. Results: choice of "which image looked better" turned out no better than blind chance, statistically.

This is not news to people who actually know engineering, science and the research on human perception. It is news - though rejected - by people who want to stick with what they think they percieve.

Have you tried a true blind test with your Nordost vs any other cable? And any results, differences in contrast, color etcs would be OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruments, which are more sensitive in some ways than your eyes. You can find VASTLY cheaper cables made to broadcast video standards and it is magic-thinking to believe that Nordost will transmit a perceptibly better picture.

You will want to still "laugh" at all this no doubt, because you have come to rely so firmly on your personal subjective experience. "You can't tell me what I'm seeing!" It's not until you recognize just how fallible your subjectivity is - you are no less susceptible than anyone else to the effects of bias! - that you will be able to find out you are likely wrong. Scientists don't employ blind and double blind testing just to make their lives harder - it's necessary to get around the incredibly strong effects of our biases.

There's a reason you don't see cable manufacturers like Nordost supplying objective, measurable differences between images using their video cables vs a competently designed cheaper cable.

I'll set myself a timer to check back in 2019 for your reply.

Absolutely. I sometimes wonder how some of these cable companies sleep at night. I seems like it should be illegal for the prices some of these companies charge; it's like robbery without a gun. But as they say "There's a sucker born every minute".

Some of my favorite things that pop up in the cable debates:

People not understanding the difference between or confusing oxygen free copper from an oxidized surface on a copper wire.

The number of people that do not know copper is an element; many think it's an alloy. And of course it comes out of the ground.

The 9's. Five 9 and six 9 copper, 99.999/99.9999%. The copper for wire is refined to 99.99 or 99.999% pure and oxygen free. This is necessary for the production of wire. Wire is made by drawing the copper through a die. Impurities in the copper will result in the wire breaking as it's being formed in the drawing process. Cut to the chase, it really doesn't matter who's cable you buy, because it's all high purity, oxygen free. A requirement for the manufacturing process. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_drawing

The wire is "fully annealed", another marketing claim that's supposed to impress I guess. The fact is, annealing is just another step in the manufacturing process. Annealing is necessary to reduce material stress from work hardening in the drawing process. If you didn't do it, the wire wouldn't bend very easy and be susceptible to breaking when you did bend it.

Copper wire is a commodity. Boutique cable companies buy from an OEM that makes what they want to sell at the cheapest price. This gives companies like Nordost and Monster etc. a higher % margin. You don't think Nordost actually makes their own cable do you?

In early 2000 I got hold of a Nordost S-Video cable (still have it). Given how ridiculously expensive it was even I fell for it at first.

How much was it at the time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

I replaced a regular old S-Video cable and thought "Yeah...yeah...you know, I think that DOES look better. Looks more clear, better color..."

Then I came to my senses and did a blind test between it, the lower end cable and a monster S-video cable. Guess what? Couldn't tell a damned difference once I didn't know which cable was in the system (a friend helped me).

I have done the same. It was kinda scary since monster has this 'death grip' so one had to be extra careful not to damage the socket. Especially someone other than me doing the switching. I could tell the difference. It was no contest. Monster sucked the life of picture. Nordost sparkled in comnparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

I had the same experience with some super expensive AC cables. Thought I bsolutely-no-one-can-tell-me-I'm-hearing-things heard a difference. Wasn't even sure I still liked my system the difference seemed so big. Then I blind tested the cable against a standard 15 dollar military-grade AC cable. No perceptible difference at all once I didn't know which cable was in the system.

I

I have no experience with AC cables with regard to the 'quality' of video/audio reproduction. I do know what I like when I hear and when I see with my own eyes and ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

I went on to do more blind testing of various levels of component video cables, even involving AVSmembers. Results: choice of "which image looked better" turned out no better than blind chance, statistically.

Mr.Harkness, with all due respect for statistical testing, what is true for an individual is not necessarily true for a large group of people and vice versa.

Think about vision of fighter pilots vs. the rest of us. Figher pilots can see things most of us cannot see, so does this invalidate the what the fighter pilots can see that the rest of us cannot see?

Or what about those who are color blind? Most of us can differentiate different colors, but that is not true for those who are color blind. Now does this mean we are being delusional about being able to differentiate different colors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

This is not news to people who actually know engineering, science and the research on human perception. It is news - though rejected - by people who want to stick with what they think they percieve.

I guess this means what a color blind person thinks perceives is not valid for those who are not, therefore what a color blind person think perceives is not valid?

Your above sentiment contradicts what you said about parameter of your Harkness calibration. After all, it depends on one particular individual's perception of color, contrast to determine the optimal setting. The optimal setting for one individual may not be true for another.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

Have you tried a true blind test with your Nordost vs any other cable?

Ditto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

And any results, differences in contrast, color etcs would be OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruments, which are more sensitive in some ways than your eyes.

So if a color blind person cannot detect the difference in color, and as a result sees no difference even though the differences in colors are OBJECTIVELY measurable in calibration instruments, which are far more sensitive in some ways than the color blind person's eyes. then does this mean what a color blind person sees is FALSE? Especially for him/her?

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

You can find VASTLY cheaper cables made to broadcast video standards and it is magic-thinking to believe that Nordost will transmit a perceptibly better picture.

Mr.Harkness, do you think if OBJECTIVELY measurable calibratioin instruments detect the difference in color and contrast, does this mean you can necessarily see the difference yourself the same way?

If your ability to detect the difference in color and contrast necessarily correlated the OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruements (which are far more sensitive in some ways than your ability to see the difference), then why would you even bother to use OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruements when your own eyes are already good enough?

The very fact that OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruements 'see' the difference in color and contrast differently from what you see with your own eyes is the proof that what matters is what you see with your own eyes, not what OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruments 'see'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

You will want to still "laugh" at all this no doubt, because you have come to rely so firmly on your personal subjective experience.

No, Mr.Harkness. I don't laugh at what you said. In fact, I appreciate your input as it made me articulate more clearly what one sees doesn't have to correspond to OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruements 'see'.

So I guess this means a color blind person is not 'crazy' or 'dishonest' when he/she couldn't detect the difference in color that OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruements detect?

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

"You can't tell me what I'm seeing!"

Mr.Harkness, does this mean OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruements can tell what a color blind person sees?

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

It's not until you recognize just how fallible your subjectivity is - you are no less susceptible than anyone else to the effects of bias! - that you will be able to find out you are likely wrong. Scientists don't employ blind and double blind testing just to make their lives harder - it's necessary to get around the incredibly strong effects of our biases.

Mr. Harkness, please contrast your above observation with what you had said on the steaming rat method you advocated below on 08/04/05 Post 195 of your steaming rat method;

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

Yes, the steaming rat method does depend on developing a decent eye for acheiving quality. But short of hiring a professional calibrationist, why don't you start with AVIA and then adjust from there. At least you should get the colors closer to "correct" and have a decent starting point. Then if it's too much color and brightness - hey,

you are in control, not the TV. Adjust the color and brightness intensity until it looks best to you.

Best of luck.

Mr.Harkness, do you see your contradiction? You're admonishing me how fallible my subjectivity is, yet your steaming rat method is dependent on subjectivity of a person for oneself for what looks best.

...and how does your above sentiment apply to a color blind person? True, a color blind person's lack of ability to see the difference in colors that OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruements can detect makes the color blind person 'fallible', but is it due to bias that a color blind person cannot see the difference that OBJECTIVELY measurable calibration instruements can detect?

Is it 'wrong' that a color blind person cannot detect the difference in colors that OBJECTIVEVLY measurable calibration instruements can detect?

Can blind and double blind testing employed by scientists of a color blind person can decide what a non-color blind person can see?

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

There's a reason you don't see cable manufacturers like Nordost supplying objective, measurable differences between images using their video cables vs a competently designed cheaper cable.

I understand the reason. It's because people's ability to see the difference in color, contrast, etc are not the same. What works for others doesn't work for some others, otherwise we wouldn't go to get our own personal eye exam to get glasses.

Literally, we see things differently. There is no one universal prescription that works for all. Even if one can find a prescription that works for the majority, that doesn't mean it works for the rest.

Now, Mr.Harkness, that's from optimologiests themselves, a scientific discpline that specializes in vision perception. That''s why your Harkness calibration works for you and some others, but not all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

I'll set myself a timer to check back in 2019 for your reply.

No need for that Mr.Harkness. I respond well to those who are serious.

Absolutely. I sometimes wonder how some of these cable companies sleep at night.]

Oh, I'm sure they sleep fine. They're in business to make money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

I seems like it should be illegal for the prices some of these companies charge; it's like robbery without a gun. But as they say "There's a sucker born every minute".

....and that's called, 'free market' and why I never buy retail. I wait to the point when I can get one not much more than typical generic cable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

Some of my favorite things that pop up in the cable debates:

People not understanding the difference between or confusing oxygen free copper from an oxidized surfaceon a copper wire.

The number of people that do not know copper is an element; many think it's an alloy. And of course it comes out of the ground.

The 9's. Five 9 and six 9 copper, 99.999/99.9999%. The copper for wire is refined to 99.99 or 99.999% pure and oxygen free. This is necessary for the production of wire. Wire is made by drawing the copper through a die. Impurities in the copper will result in the wire breaking as it's being formed in the drawing process. Cut to the chase, it really doesn't matter who's cable you buy, because it's all high purity, oxygen free. A requirement for the manufacturing process. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_drawing

The wire is "fully annealed", another marketing claim that's supposed to impress I guess. The fact is, annealing is just another step in the manufacturing process. Annealing is necessary to reduce material stress from work hardening in the drawing process. If you didn't do it, the wire wouldn't bend very easy and be susceptible to breaking when you did bend it.

Copper wire is a commodity. Boutique cable companies buy from an OEM that makes what they want to sell at the cheapest price. This gives companies like Nordost and Monster etc. a higher % margin. You don't think Nordost actually makes their own cable do you?

I agree in general of what you said above. Not that I necessarily disagree or agree with you, but do you know for a fact Nordost doesn't make their own cable or not?

After all, does Apple 'make' their own IPOD?

Quote:

Originally Posted by b curry

Nice post Rich.

I agree it was an honest attempt by Mr.Harkness. I am looking forward to how Mr.Harkness is going to respond to my refutation of his rationale.

I agree in general of what you said above. Not that I necessarily disagree or agree with you, but do you know for a fact Nordost doesn't make their own cable or not?

After all, does Apple 'make' their own IPOD?

Well, if I use google earth to view the site they claim to be their factory, I see a rather small pole barn that does not appear to have the size or infrastructure necessary to support copper melting, scrap yard, drawing equipment etc. I see no evidence of the necessary environmental accoutrement's required by state and federal law that are necessary to support the manufacturing process of copper wire.

Perhaps they cut, terminate, and package cable here. But I see nothing that would indicate that they actually are a manufacture of copper wire. I say this as a person that works for a German engineering company that builds machinery for the manufacturing of copper and steel.

"After all, does Apple 'make' their own IPOD?" Not that I know of at this time. But an Apple MP3 player or computing device is not exactly a piece of overpriced wire claiming mystical powers and the ability to transform your equipment. Sorry, you'll have to do better than that.