Definitely let me know what you think of the end when you get there. I have to admit, I had a rocky start with NW (wasn't sure about Watanabe as a character), but the ending has really stuck with me.

Sonic# wrote:That said, if you want a standalone book to introduce yourself to Asimov as a writer, The Gods Themselves is a classic that features, among other things, creatures with an alternate system of sexual differentiation.

Awesome, thanks for the recommendation. I've added it to my Amazon wishlist, and I'll be grabbing it once I finish the books I'm borrowing. Definitely curious about that sexual differentiation system!

Brit, thanks for the welcome -- so cool to meet a fellow Pennsylvanian here! Small world I'm actually replaying EBC for the first time in years right now, so maybe I should hold off on declaring one way or the other, but it's probably SSSC for me. It's a simpler story, but I think it's told really well, and the cast of characters is one of my favorites in any medium. I really like the way Luna is written too -- she becomes a damsel in distress of course, but early on, when she's unsure of her place in the adventure and/or world, it's a relatable moment of internal conflict and a strong piece of foreshadowing at the same time. Plus, I'm just a sucker for the Boat Song

r0wsdower wrote:Brit, thanks for the welcome -- so cool to meet a fellow Pennsylvanian here! Small world I'm actually replaying EBC for the first time in years right now, so maybe I should hold off on declaring one way or the other, but it's probably SSSC for me. It's a simpler story, but I think it's told really well, and the cast of characters is one of my favorites in any medium. I really like the way Luna is written too -- she becomes a damsel in distress of course, but early on, when she's unsure of her place in the adventure and/or world, it's a relatable moment of internal conflict and a strong piece of foreshadowing at the same time. Plus, I'm just a sucker for the Boat Song

Which one is your favorite, if you had to pick?

For me it’s Eternal Blue Complete hands down. However, I am extremely biased on that decision as it was my very first entry into the world of Lunar. Not only that it was my first JRPG, it was also the first game I ever beat to completion. I remember just loving the characters, the sprite work (I’m such a nerd for sprite work), the music, and story. It just captivated me. I tried to get my older sister to play it once and she only made it to after Hiro and Ruby’s intro. She’s not a fan of story games; she’s more into like Mario and Sonic where you just start a level and go.

After beating the game I rushed to Gamestop and bought the ‘Fan Art Edition’ of SSSC. Ever since the cut scene in Mystic Ruins played the curiosity for what actually happened in the first game was slowly getting to me.

SSSC is good in its own right I think. For me I personally like it more than TSS. However, it’s the game I kind of get burnt out on the most since it’s always getting remakes above all the other ones. :/ I also tend to play both SSSC (original TSS or a remake) and EBC (Original or ps1) at least once every year normally during the summer season.

I will say that the Boat Song is lovely in SSSC– it’s one of my favorite cutscenes in all of Lunar. Of course the best cutscene for me is Lucia vs. Zophar. <3

As long as you live therewillcome a day when you can smile from theheart.

It seems like, for a lot of folks here, the first one you play tends to stay your favorite. I think that says a lot about the quality of the series--every entry is so good, even across platforms, that nobody's throwing any particular version under the bus (except Dragon Song of course!). I totally feel you on getting burned out on SSSC--seeing your own favorite game in the series, which is at least as good, being passed up for remakes over and over is a downer.

And now that I'm playing EBC again, I'm remembering just how awesome it is; only just beat Lunn for the Blue Dragon Aura, but the character development and writing for Jean alone is killer. You're not kidding about the sprite work, or the music, or the story either. So good. Can't wait for the Lucia vs Zophar cutscene again! Do you think EBC spoiled you when it comes to JRPGs? There are a lot of good ones out there, but EBC is a pretty high bar.

Awesome that you replay both games every year--have you given them a play through in 2016?

Back then I was really into my anime at the time so the character artwork and cutscene screenshots on the game box is what really lured me in. Once I started playing though, I was just blown away. It was like no game I had ever played at that point. I think back then I was mostly playing games like Spyro the Dragon and Crash Bandicoot.

After Lunar 2 I got more into the RPG genre with other games like Lunar Silver Star Story, Chrono Cross, Legend of the Dragoon, and Star Ocean Second Story – to name a few. ^_^ It’s still my favorite genre, but a lot of the newer games just don’t do much for me lately. Like I like them, but I rarely replay them. Currently I’m trying out I Am Setsuna, but I’m still pretty early in the game to really say much on it.

As for my yearly Lunar I am playing them, but I’m doing them more at a leisurely pace this year since I had a few games comes out that I’ve been waiting for. I’m doing SSH on my PS Vita for my SSS playthrough – I’m 8+ hours in and just landing in Meriba. I always thought this remake was one of the better ones. I just loved the new sprite designs in it. However I think it lacks in difficulty. The game is so much easier than the PS1 and really doesn’t differ like Lunar Legend did.

In my EBC one I’m playing the Japanese game and I’m at Taiben’s Peak working my way up to Nall and the Dragon kids, right before we go into the Meriba Sewers. ^^ It’s so strange hearing the original voices. >.>

As long as you live therewillcome a day when you can smile from theheart.

Definitely let me know what you think of the end when you get there. I have to admit, I had a rocky start with NW (wasn't sure about Watanabe as a character), but the ending has really stuck with me.

Well, I finally finished it the other day. Murakami's endings (for novels anyway) are always... weird. Like, they're unsatisfying at first until I've chewed on them a little while in my mind and the flavor comes out, and then the ending becomes really good and memorable with that extra reflection (same thing happened with Kafka on the Shore and After Dark). Though also it's never just the story progression and the endings that stick with me -- it's all those little philosophical life-advice things that come up in the midst of dialogue. A lot of what Reiko said, especially with regards to understanding that your feelings are not always fully in your control, and perhaps the most important thing is to act honestly with respect to them, rather than trying to force a particular feeling (applied mostly to Watanabe, but also in retrospect it probably applies to her own background just as much).

Anyway, Norwegian Wood spoilers below (and, uh, yeah this is a little PG-13):Something told me that eventually, from the moment that he met Midori, that Watanabe would fall in love with her (...or, eh, to be honest, at least sleep with her...). I had a bad feeling that Naoko would eventually commit suicide, though I was hoping that it wouldn't happen, but there was too much foreshadowing otherwise. But Watanabe's breakdown after that, seeing that complete flip in character from before where he seemed so calm and collected, was jarring.

I honestly didn't expect him to sleep with Reiko... I mean I probably should've figured, but I'm of two minds about it... Like, I begrudge him for what I thought was a low threshold for sex, especially when feelings for someone else were often thrown into the mix -- Naoko's feelings for Kizuki when he and Naoko first slept together, his lingering feelings for Naoko and Midori while he was still intimate or pseudo-intimate with either (or with other girls), and his lingering feelings for Naoko specifically (and probably overlooking his feelings for Midori) when he slept with Reiko. But maybe that's just my own more conservative mores regarding sex coloring my perception of him?END OF SPOILERS

Anywho, I can never give a short succinct answer with respect to anything Murakami writes. It's too unusual and the meaning tends to only come out stronger when I've had that time to reflect. But the short version is that I'm still puzzled over whether I like the protagonist. I like a lot about him, but there are those things he does that seem so... boneheaded... but then again I can understand that he's dealing with a lot of different emotions and still 19-20 years old.

Now that I'm done with that, I decided to switch back to classic science fiction. I tried the first chapters of Childhood's End (Clarke), The Man in the High Castle (Dick), and Count Zero (Gibson), and chose to go with Count Zero now. So far, so good -- a bit like Neuromancer, he likes to jump right into the middle of the world and not spend a lot of time on exposition, letting you figure it out as you go. KF

brit wrote:I’m doing SSH on my PS Vita for my SSS playthrough – I’m 8+ hours in and just landing in Meriba. I always thought this remake was one of the better ones. I just loved the new sprite designs in it. However I think it lacks in difficulty. The game is so much easier than the PS1 and really doesn’t differ like Lunar Legend did.

WD modified the monster stats for the PS1 game (fewer HP, but higher attack), which Ubi and XSeed did not with Legend and SSH respectively. So that's a large part of it. And, of course, the Arts gauge moves in Legend and SSH help, and doesn't one of them refill HP and MP on level-up?

I wasn't as big a fan of the sprites in SSH (although I thought they were OK) -- mainly because I really loved the Legend ones, which were adorable -- but the map graphics were awesome. While I kind of missed the familiar Meribia layout, it was certainly interesting to see the redesigns, and things like the Vane caves actually echoing the conical shape of Vane itself. Hm, I should bring SSH along on my upcoming Australia trip, since I was already going to be bringing a PSP for Valkyria Chronicles 3.

brit wrote:After Lunar 2 I got more into the RPG genre with other games like Lunar Silver Star Story, Chrono Cross, Legend of the Dragoon, and Star Ocean Second Story – to name a few. ^_^ It’s still my favorite genre, but a lot of the newer games just don’t do much for me lately. Like I like them, but I rarely replay them. Currently I’m trying out I Am Setsuna, but I’m still pretty early in the game to really say much on it.

Oh man, Star Ocean Second Story was the RPG I played while I was waiting for Lunar to come out. I sank SO many hours into that one as a kid. Think I rented it three times before my parents got me a copy for Christmas. Another really good story and cast of characters, plus the crafting was fun and simple and the possibilities were pretty much endless.

Let me know what you think of I Am Setsuna, I'm curious about what's out there these days but rarely pull the trigger on a new game (unless it's a cheap roguelike or bullet-hell shooter on Steam, I love those even though they drive me crazy).

brit wrote:As for my yearly Lunar I am playing them, but I’m doing them more at a leisurely pace this year since I had a few games comes out that I’ve been waiting for. I’m doing SSH on my PS Vita for my SSS playthrough – I’m 8+ hours in and just landing in Meriba. I always thought this remake was one of the better ones. I just loved the new sprite designs in it. However I think it lacks in difficulty. The game is so much easier than the PS1 and really doesn’t differ like Lunar Legend did.

In my lurkings, I thought I saw you mention replaying them in like 2-3 days. Did I read that right? If so, that's hardcore!

When I played through TSS I was surprised at how easy it was compared to SSSC. On the one hand, it's nice to be able to progress without too much hassle and/or restarting, but it does take some of the fun out of it.

brit wrote:In my EBC one I’m playing the Japanese game and I’m at Taiben’s Peak working my way up to Nall and the Dragon kids, right before we go into the Meriba Sewers. ^^ It’s so strange hearing the original voices. >.>

I can imagine! I played the iOS version of SSS with the Japanese voices, and it was an experience for sure. Do you read/speak Japanese?

Kizyr wrote:...Midori/Naoko/Reiko...

SPOILERSalso PG-13ish

It's been a while since I finished this one, so the details are fading and I may be misremembering things. But the story seems like a classic example of a protagonist being forced to choose between fantasy and reality. Especially near the end, Naoko represents a sort of dark fantasy. She's physically removed from the chaos of everyday life, including the political agitation at school. She's ethereal and unreal at times (when she's standing naked in the moonlight in front of him, IIRC?). And there's that edge of death to her that foreshadows the suicide, like you mentioned.

But Midori is the total opposite. She lives in the real world, as messy as it is (right down to her family's cluttered bookstore). She cooks, she has thoughts on politics, and she says what's on her mind. Wasn't she the one that brought up the janitor burning sanitary pads at the girl's school, too? That detail really crystallizes the rest for me. She acknowledges the realities of both human biology and its consequences in one piece of dialog.

In the aftermath of Naoko's suicide, I think Reiko functions as a kind of guide for Watanabe to show him the way out of his shattered fantasy and back to reality. She has a foot in both worlds, living at the facility (forget the term used in the text) but also being of sound mind. Having sex with him seemed like a weird way to do it at first, but think about how literally all the sex in the novel goes beforehand -- it's empty, anonymous, and/or traumatic. With Reiko, though, it's way more positive, and might change his perspective on sex (or even life) and make a healthy relationship with Midori possible. We'll never know, of course.

Apologies if I'm just stating the obvious in terms of the story, but that's what has really stuck with me. Think I finished the book about a year ago. Might be worth a reread soon.

Kizyr wrote:Now that I'm done with that, I decided to switch back to classic science fiction. I tried the first chapters of Childhood's End (Clarke), The Man in the High Castle (Dick), and Count Zero (Gibson), and chose to go with Count Zero now. So far, so good -- a bit like Neuromancer, he likes to jump right into the middle of the world and not spend a lot of time on exposition, letting you figure it out as you go.

Awesome. I always liked that about Gibson's work -- he respects you enough to know that you can fill in the blanks, and that also frees him up to get to the emotional core of what's going on.

r0wsdower wrote:Let me know what you think of I Am Setsuna, I'm curious about what's out there these days but rarely pull the trigger on a new game (unless it's a cheap roguelike or bullet-hell shooter on Steam, I love those even though they drive me crazy).

Will do.

r0wsdower wrote:In my lurkings, I thought I saw you mention replaying them in like 2-3 days. Did I read that right? If so, that's hardcore!

Yup, that’s me. Though it’s not both games at once. XD Those time estimates are for SSSC and EBC on the playstation. SSSC I can do in 2 days tops. That time frame also includes me taking breaks during the days to eat and maybe be a little social.

EBC I can do in 3 days. My last English play through (summer 2015) ended with Hiro at level 66 at the end of the Star Dragon Tower in 42 hours and 44 minutes. Keep in mind that doesn’t include the time it took to battle him (the star dragon) though. That time did include finding all the in game items and secret bromides through.

Zophar’s Keep I hit at level 53 and 33 hours and 10 minutes in according to my save data on the ps3 if you’re not into playing the epilogue.

r0wsdower wrote:I can imagine! I played the iOS version of SSS with the Japanese voices, and it was an experience for sure. Do you read/speak Japanese?

No, not at all. Though I can pick up small phrases and words depending on what they are, but they have to be spoken. When it comes to the Lunar games I have actually stayed away from any of the original Japanese cutscenes from the games so hearing them for the first time was an experience. <3 Like I heard the character image songs from Lunar Songs I and II, but actually hearing them in use in the game was just awesome.

As long as you live therewillcome a day when you can smile from theheart.

brit wrote: Yup, that’s me. Though it’s not both games at once. XD Those time estimates are for SSSC and EBC on the playstation. SSSC I can do in 2 days tops. That time frame also includes me taking breaks during the days to eat and maybe be a little social.

EBC I can do in 3 days. My last English play through (summer 2015) ended with Hiro at level 66 at the end of the Star Dragon Tower in 42 hours and 44 minutes. Keep in mind that doesn’t include the time it took to battle him (the star dragon) though. That time did include finding all the in game items and secret bromides through.

Zophar’s Keep I hit at level 53 and 33 hours and 10 minutes in according to my save data on the ps3 if you’re not into playing the epilogue.

Okay, I originally thought it was 2-3 for both, haha. That's still seriously impressive, and about where I finished up in terms of level and time on my playthrough (except I took a couple weeks to do it).

brit wrote:No, not at all. Though I can pick up small phrases and words depending on what they are, but they have to be spoken. When it comes to the Lunar games I have actually stayed away from any of the original Japanese cutscenes from the games so hearing them for the first time was an experience. <3 Like I heard the character image songs from Lunar Songs I and II, but actually hearing them in use in the game was just awesome.

That is awesome! I'd imagine the menus take a little getting used to, but if they use the same icons for items/spells/actions it must be fairly intuitive.

I studied Japanese while I was at Temple... for about three weeks. It was way too intense for me, especially with a full English lit course load that had me reading and writing about several works at a time. Still remember some odd phrases, like "What time is it in Tokyo?" and "I'm a student at Temple University," but that's about it.

I daresay that last phrase is probably a bit obsolete for you. I do have a minor fond association with Temple, not because of anything concrete about it but because when I was in the marching band at UC Berkeley, our basketball team went to a small invitational in Florida, along with Temple and two other teams. The other two teams also had bands there, but Temple didn't, so we decided to play in support of their team (our team was not matched up with Temple). The band of the team that Temple was playing against looked at us in incredulous anger -- how dare we spoil their musical dominance of the game -- and started throwing homophobic slurs at us (for being from "San Francisco"). That, of course, just made us more determined to support their opponents, and several Temple fans present and I think the team as well thanked us. I probably still have a little Temple Owl lapel sticker somewhere. (Owls are the best mascot ever.)

Let's see, I played Legend, Genesis (Dragon Song), and HSS nearly entirely in Japanese when each came out, and only got around to playing them in English much later. I also played a bit of EBC on the Saturn (up to about getting Jean) and played EB in Japanese up to just after Borgan. Sometime after all that is when I took a few months of Japanese. It definitely helps to already know the story and mechanics (and to have katakana charts handy to sound out the item names), of course, which made the minor changes in Legend and HSS intriguing because I didn't already know the context (e.g., "Sub-Vane" in Legend is definitely not a Trial Cave). And of course Genesis was a bit challenging too (like figuring out the Stone Flower thing), being a completely new story for values of completely new at the character and location level.

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm not sure I've finished any of the three handheld games above in English. I don't remember whether I finished Legend or not, though I know I got at least most of the way through the last dungeon. I've only played the Caldor, er, Honmel Island part of SSH, though I'll be taking it with me on vacation so may get more into it... from the beginning, since my saves got deleted. >_< And my Dragon Song playthrough is probably, oh, 85% done because I got distracted with transcribing all the text. This is also why my current EBC playthrough is stopped at just before fighting Leo. I'm not very good at just playing a game without taking lots of notes on it.

Alunissage wrote:I daresay that last phrase is probably a bit obsolete for you.

Gah, you're right! Somehow that never even occurred to me. I must be in denial

Alunissage wrote:I do have a minor fond association with Temple, not because of anything concrete about it but because when I was in the marching band at UC Berkeley, our basketball team went to a small invitational in Florida, along with Temple and two other teams. The other two teams also had bands there, but Temple didn't, so we decided to play in support of their team (our team was not matched up with Temple). The band of the team that Temple was playing against looked at us in incredulous anger -- how dare we spoil their musical dominance of the game -- and started throwing homophobic slurs at us (for being from "San Francisco"). That, of course, just made us more determined to support their opponents, and several Temple fans present and I think the team as well thanked us. I probably still have a little Temple Owl lapel sticker somewhere. (Owls are the best mascot ever.)

That is a wild story! It's too bad that other band had to have such a crappy attitude, but it's awesome that you guys wanted to step up and support the team. Here's one more thank-you from Owl Nation! If you'd ever like a bumper sticker or some other bit of swag, I still have easy access to the bookstore. Totally agree on the Owl being a great mascot too -- it's cool on its own, plus it reflects Temple's history as a commuter school, where "night owls" would take classes after working all day.

Alunnisage wrote:Let's see, I played Legend, Genesis (Dragon Song), and HSS nearly entirely in Japanese when each came out, and only got around to playing them in English much later. I also played a bit of EBC on the Saturn (up to about getting Jean) and played EB in Japanese up to just after Borgan. Sometime after all that is when I took a few months of Japanese. It definitely helps to already know the story and mechanics (and to have katakana charts handy to sound out the item names), of course, which made the minor changes in Legend and HSS intriguing because I didn't already know the context (e.g., "Sub-Vane" in Legend is definitely not a Trial Cave). And of course Genesis was a bit challenging too (like figuring out the Stone Flower thing), being a completely new story for values of completely new at the character and location level.

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm not sure I've finished any of the three handheld games above in English. I don't remember whether I finished Legend or not, though I know I got at least most of the way through the last dungeon. I've only played the Caldor, er, Honmel Island part of SSH, though I'll be taking it with me on vacation so may get more into it... from the beginning, since my saves got deleted. >_< And my Dragon Song playthrough is probably, oh, 85% done because I got distracted with transcribing all the text. This is also why my current EBC playthrough is stopped at just before fighting Leo. I'm not very good at just playing a game without taking lots of notes on it.

I hugely admire that level of commitment to documenting your observations with these games. I tend to just let my playthroughs wash over me, which is nice too, but I can't help but feel like I'm missing some of the finer points.

Yep! We're leaving tomorrow evening for two weeks in Sydney and Melbourne. We have family there -- more specifically, my husband has aunts and uncles and cousins, a few of which I've met -- and it'll be our 10th anniversary while we're there. I'm excited, though a bit concerned about the pneumonia I apparently developed in July. Of all the possible times in my life to get pneumonia, right before an overseas trip including the longest flight I've ever been on is about the worst. At least it's relatively mild, though enough to keep me out of work sometimes.

I started taking notes on playthroughs -- can I still call them playthroughs when I keep not finishing them? -- years ago. I don't remember whether the motivation was the play mechanics or the story/dialogue. I just find things interesting. Of course, when we'd get into discussions or arguments here about some point of story or backstory or character, it was nice to be able to copy/paste dialogue to bolster or prove a point. And I love version differences, and stats (in-game stats, I mean, not statistics as a field, about which I know nothing). Sometimes I try to work out the math behind the leveling up of different stats, like, oh, Nash's defense going up 7/6 of a point (and then rounded) per level.

It does make it harder to just pick up and play stuff, though, because I feel irresponsible if I don't note things down. On the other hand, it means so much time elapses between playthroughs that I forget the details even when I wrote them down, so get to rediscover them.

Alunissage wrote:can I still call them playthroughs when I keep not finishing them?

Playintos? "Let's play" seems to get around the principal issue, even if I don't like verbs in my noun phrase.

It does make it harder to just pick up and play stuff, though, because I feel irresponsible if I don't note things down. On the other hand, it means so much time elapses between playthroughs that I forget the details even when I wrote them down, so get to rediscover them.

Heh, this is my experience reading. I find it very difficult to not keep notes, even in the margins. I have to wean myself with novels. Thankfully, I can turn that off when playing. Then again, some of my favorite notes are to Chrono Cross and Lunar: SSSC, two games that are worth the notes.

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

Alunissage wrote:Actually, now that I think of it, I'm not sure I've finished any of the three handheld games above in English.

Truth is, I actually never played Lunar Legend in English either. After playing through thrice (and making the walkthrough before the English release was ever announced) I figured there wasn't much need to actually play it another time.

I did play SSH once in English (once in Japanese), and Dragon Song once in English (once in Japanese). I'm not too interested in revisiting them now. KF