It isn’t so much that the presidents of several (pseudo?)skeptical organizations are assholes, as much as that they are petty, immature, unprofessional assholes. It is like they were promoted from guarding the keg straight to president of an organization with no intermediate steps. You’d think that being the head and therefore Public Representative #1 of an organization would automatically drive a person to be more circumspect in their public behavior. Their inability to do so simply shows that they are unsuitable for leadership positions.

BTW, and not coincidentally, I’m pretty sure that it was CFI Canada/Peyton’s behavior over similar issue in the past that drove my haste in judging Grothe’s behavior.

Ace of Sevens: I’m reading this on my iPad and the embedded Jon Stewart clip in a previous post is fucking everything up. It starts loading then elongates and eats every post below it. Never had the problem before (and can’t watch them due to geo-blocking) but I’m wondering if yours is the same problem?

What is this madness! I have yet to find a single post in the entire history of the internet that is even remotely readable!
Now excuse me, while my carrier pigeon explodes with somewhat liquid dentition! Nay, very liquid!

Well, I did not know who D.J.Grothe or Michael Payton were but I do know neither speaks for me. This may be because I am British. I knew of PZ, ED, Ophelia, and Greta (and CPP and Cuttlefish) before the formation of FTB, but FTB has introduced me to many new bloggers some of whom I read regularly and some occasionally, the fact that they are all in one place means that access is now easy.
I think Ed and PZ should be congratulated on the formation of FTB. THANK YOU to all the bloggers at FTB for fighting the good fight and to the commentators for their own contribution to the fight for justice.

Isn’t this the same CFI Canda that has vocal MRA supporters like Justin Trottier stinking it up?

A couple of years back my partner and I went to our first ever meeting of the local atheist group. There we met Justin, not speaking, just dropping in from the big city for a visit with the local peasantry. Over dinner he, first loudly and arrogantly, then loudly and angrily, then eventually loudly and sulkily tried to explain to me why no women deserve any spousal support, child support or anything at all in a divorce unless there’s a pre-nup in place. The specific case under discussion was the high-school educated woman who had worked full time to support the family while her husband got his master’s, said husband then dumped the family as soon as his degree started paying off. That’s her problem, was his position, she should have lawyered up back when they first got together! I talked about the role of the government in protecting the weak or vulnerable regardless of gender and letting the powerful look after themselves. His response was Screw that! It’s men that are the weak ones, women (like half of us sitting at the table) have all the power in society! It’s men that need the protection!

Oddly enough, we never went to another meeting with that local atheist group. Never went to another CFI event either.

#23 Nathair
The dumbness, it hurts.
Marriage IS a contract, with the terms described by laws that require you to support your children and spouse, even after a divorce, as needed. One can make legitimate claims that, in the past, it was biased against men in this regard – until them damn feministi-libbers worked to eliminate sex bias in many laws.
Having a pre-nup for situations that are already covered by the law is like signing two contracts that say the same thing. Pre-nups are usually to opt out of the legal requirements.
If the man didn’t want to fulfill his contractual obligations, he should have got the pre-nup. But it is likely that the courts wouldn’t let him opt out of supporting his own children, pre-nup or not.

I know a few of the CFI Ottawa folk. I guess all I can say is: I’d be surprised if they were real pleased with Payton’s attitude, here, but I guess I don’t technically know. I don’t attend/belong, either, so can’t speak to the organization’s general timbre. I’d been kinda mulling trying to make it to Eschaton (December coming), which is their show, but hadn’t really nailed that down as a commitment exactly, yet.

Anyway, feel free to drop a line if you’re looking for Pharyngulites in and around Ottawa when you arrive.

Over dinner he, first loudly and arrogantly, then loudly and angrily, then eventually loudly and sulkily tried to explain to me why no women deserve any spousal support, child support or anything at all in a divorce unless there’s a pre-nup in place. The specific case under discussion was the high-school educated woman who had worked full time to support the family while her husband got his master’s, said husband then dumped the family as soon as his degree started paying off. That’s her problem, was his position, she should have lawyered up back when they first got together!

Thios guy is an idiot. The fact of the matter is that Marriage is a contract by law and has been recognized as such for thousands of years. The terms of this Contract are set up in the various pertinant puieces of legislation. If the guy who is feeling shafted by all this is whining perhaps he should have not gotton married. Perhaps he should have consulted a Lawyer. You get married you have just agreed to the contract. If you want alternate terms get a prenup.

So he has no problem with exploiting someone else for your benefit and then running off?! Sorry you married that person, you willing accepted the marriage cohntract, you don’t get out of the consequences. Oh and if someone sacrifices there own prospects for your benefit you don’t get out of that either. It is taken into account if you bail out.

Oh and your kids are entitled by law to support from both parents you and your spouse cannot sign away THEIR rights.

What this guy wants is for marriage to be consequence free for guys so thay can dumb the wife and kids with no consequenceas. Sorry but if you freely enter into a contract their are consequences once you terminate it.

My guess is that the woman in general saw no point in getting married after that.

Many people see no point. Sometimes the legal trappings that come with it are advantages, sometimes they’re just superfluous. In the latter cases, people used to marry anyway, just out of tradition – and that factor is disappearing. Good riddance. :-|

I also suspect that you guys are going to be finding yourselves increasingly alone

Thanks to specifically Pharyngula, I’m less alone now than I’ve ever been.

Ditto what Carlie #38 said. In fact, I’m on the verge of getting publicaly involved in our little revolution, and I’ve never joined anything in my good long life. Anyone have good words for any Los Angeles groups? Many thanks.

I also suspect that you guys are going to be finding yourselves increasingly alone, and like Zinnia Jones is discovering, “lie down with dogs, get covered with fleas”, or summat.

Which I think is remarkably untrue, given the outpouring of support from people who matter. Sure, there are whiny malcontents, but so what?

Really, anyone who doesn’t like that we want the atheist/skeptic community to be more inclusive to people other than dudebros can fuck right off, since as far as I can tell we’d rather be smaller than compromise with assholes for the sake of numbers.

Morgan, try CFI-Los Angeles. I’ve volunteered there for years. Lectures about twice a month, a book club, and a skeptics investigation group (I am not part of the latter.) The Steve Allen Theater is in the same building, and they do some good stuff.

Micheal Payton co-hosted an MRA podcast with Jason Trottier. It’s called The Pendulum effect and the tagline is “From bias to balance”. http://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-pendulum-effect/id301109716 Anti-feminist and writer Warren Farrell is one of their first interviews.
Mark, who blogs at a pit of stupid called True-equality.net writes that he is a contributor and fan of the podcast. PZ’s name pops up there and you can imagine how much they like a man who thinks women aren’t lying bitches who rule over a world of piteously oppressed men. I don’t think it is unfair to think that the only reason Payton finds FTBs so unreadable is that those vacuous shit-bag trolls are his friends, allies and supporters. They share his worldview.

I have to say that all this trouble with misogyny was certainly not my prime motivation for reading FtB. But I also have to say that it has opened my eyes to how bad things are for women on the internet. So long live FtB and PZ and Ed and Jason the other men who are supporting the fine efforts of women like Ophelia and Jen and Stephanie and Greta and all the others who are willing to speak up and be heard.

I also suspect that you guys are going to be finding yourselves increasingly alone

You do realize that pretty much all the big organizations are siding with ‘us guys’. We are winning this fight. Slowly but surely. And in the end it’s not us who will stand alone. It’s you.
By the way, I see no problem with throwing sexist assholes overboard. Any sort of skeptic/atheist community that actually matters is better of without such assholes.

If I’m given the choice of either standing on my own or with a gaggle misogynists, I’d prefer to be alone.

By the same standard, I’ve recently decided that I’d rather live in a neighborhood populated by UFO true believers, Big foot hunters, psychics and creationists than one populated with skeptics and atheists who do not see women as fully human or who are rape culture denialists / apologists.

Certain rights are provided through a relationship that cannot be dumped in a contract, such as the right to live in the matrimonial home. The rights of children are also protected, so that the all powerful females cannot impose their uncaring harshness. OK, wrong. So that parents can’t make a deal about children’s futures without either fully co-operating or with review of a court.

As for Québec, marriage contracts are built in to the Code Civil. Marriage contracts are old news in that province. Federal Divorce law does not over-ride Provincial law relating to marriage and property rights. It’s more complex than that.

I think Ed and PZ should be congratulated on the formation of FTB. THANK YOU to all the bloggers at FTB for fighting the good fight and to the commentators for their own contribution to the fight for justice.

So long live FtB and PZ and Ed and Jason the other men who are supporting the fine efforts of women like Ophelia and Jen and Stephanie and Greta and all the others who are willing to speak up and be heard.

Hear hear!

(also note another of the rare data points for someone with ‘atheist’ in their nym NOT being a douche.) ;>

Just so you know, Justin Trottier is not the head of CFI Canada, and has not been for some time now. He was fired, and then re-hired as Communications Director. Justin has been soundly criticized by the leadership of CFI Canada for his use of his position at CFI to advance his MRA agenda. So please don’t tar CFI Canada with this.

A plea on behalf of CFI Canada’s volunteers: please don’t blame us for the crap that goes on at head office!

Payton and Trottier are completely removed from the work of the local branches. CFI Vancouver is an excellent organisation, as is CFI Ottawa (@Dick the Damned, I’m also a Brit living in Ottawa and am heavily involved with the group so get in touch and I’ll hook you up – it would be great to have you here, also see http://www.meetup.com/Ottawa-Skeptics/ :-) ), and I have heard great things about the branches in Montreal, Edmonton and Calgary.

These groups (representing the majority of CFI Canada’s activity) are run by volunteers who pour their time and effort into making CFI great, and it is SO sad to see it undermined by those who are being paid from our memberships… CFI Canada is the only gig in town as far as Canadian skeptical organisations go, so it’s all we have! CFI Canada is not Payton. CFI Canada is the many volunteers who work so hard to advance reason and skepticism in Canada.

And just a note to Ophelia, Ian Cromwell and PZ who have so kindly agreed to speak at the Eschaton Conference in Ottawa this December (http://eschaton2012.ca/): thank you for having the patience to stick with us through this. We really do appreciate it.

I also suspect that you guys are going to be finding yourselves increasingly alone

I keep repeating this yet it never seems to get through to people

I do not like you. I do not like people like you! I do not want to be with you. I do not want you as a friend. I do not what a high number of useless friends, I have friends I am happy with and am not currently recruiting. if you never talk to me and leave me alone I will be very happy

These groups (representing the majority of CFI Canada’s activity) are run by volunteers who pour their time and effort into making CFI great, and it is SO sad to see it undermined by those who are being paid from our memberships… CFI Canada is the only gig in town as far as Canadian skeptical organisations go, so it’s all we have! CFI Canada is not Payton. CFI Canada is the many volunteers who work so hard to advance reason and skepticism in Canada.

Just so you know, Justin Trottier is not the head of CFI Canada, and has not been for some time now. He was fired, and then re-hired as Communications Director. Justin has been soundly criticized by the leadership of CFI Canada for his use of his position at CFI to advance his MRA agenda. So please don’t tar CFI Canada with this.

I’m sorry, but from what you wrote here, it seems he’s still working for CFI Canada… as Communications Director?!?? So I see no reason not to hold CFI Canada responsible for having him on staff while he promotes his agenda of hate. Haven’t you heard that the Southern Poverty Law Center declared MRA groups hate groups, officially? Would you have a member of Stormfront directing your communications? No? Then why does bigotry against women get a pass?

I also suspect that you guys are going to be finding yourselves increasingly alone

If FTB took comfort in numbers, it would convert to Catholicism. I’d say they want something different, like promote their view on things like religion, science, lgbt rights and yep, feminism. In that regard, I suspect that they are not really interested in keeping friendships with guys that get so freaking offended over it.