20...And a Virgin?

If the forum-goers don't wish to read this because of it's length then I understand, but I'd really like some help and advice in these matters ahead.

Now I could easily tell you that my friend is almost 20 years old and has never had so much as a sexual experience in his life, but I'm not going to lie, I'm the one that needs "help" here. I'm going to be turning 20 in a couple of months and I've had 0 experience in the field of sexual activity, some of you might find it pathetic and believe me, I'm not to happy about it either but that's why I'm here, to try and get some help.

Now to start off I'll have to give you a mental picture of myself and a few details about my body:

Now that you hopefully have this slight mental image of what I look like I'll go on to more pressing matters. Most of my life I was always under the impression that if you are yourself and confidant that girls will get into you, recently..or maybe not as recently I've realized this isant true for most of the world, even though many might want to think so.

I myself am quite the intellectual, I love reading and would rather discuss current events with a female then have sex and call it a night, that also may be the problem I'm still a virgin. I tend to use a high end vocabulary all the time because I'm use to it, and this may also be another reason.

Recently I've been getting quite depressed over the fact of my virginity and saught out my friends for advice. They all seemed to say the same thing about getting laid:

1. First time should be with someone not so special to you.
2. Being intelluctual with the woman of today is not best for you.
3. Being yourself, in my case "smart" is not going to get you laid soon.

Well I took these in stride and a couple days ago put them into affect. I attended a small part where it was a couple of my friends and my friends girlfriends lady friend. Now the only "available" guys at this get together were myself and my other friend. We drank and played Waterfalls and had a good time, at the end of the night while she was leaving I probably made the biggest mistake of my life, "I'm sorry if this is to forward but could I have your number?" Yep you heard correctly I said that, as you can see, the experience meter just dropped 10 fold. She said she had a boyfriend and left it at that, I understood and thought it was cool until the next day.

The next day we had the same people at another get together and this time the girl that I asked for her number was drinking. Now I just started drinking recently and have never been drunk before, I never plan on it, I like to get the point of feeling good and that's it. Most of the time it takes me a while to get to that point because I'm bigger and can hold my alchohol better then most.

Well during the party I was being my usual "smart" self and my friend was being his usual cocky I could get you by the end of the night self, needless to say at the end of the night I was sleeping on the floor listening to my friend and this girl doing whatever they were doing on the couch, I could of played it off as cuddling but when she got up and said, "I've got cum in my mouth." I knew what happened and what will happen in about 5 minutes. See now that my friend got what he wanted he wanted to push it further, into the regions of sex, so he pressed the matter, the girl refused and was makeing fun of his penis size and whatnot and then got annoyed and went into a different room. He followed her and being the sneaky person I am followed suit and listened at the door. Needless to say if my name ever comes out of my friends mouth while try to get laid by a girl again, we're going to have issues. Aside from that he got what he wanted that night/morning. I'm guessing the only reason she didn't fuck him in the living room was because I was there and for some god given reason she cared what I thought. Now I'm not an idiot, this girl was going into her 3rd year of college in the pursuit of a Bachelors in Social Work, not to shabby. So it pains me to think that she just fucked a dude that probably won't care about her 2 days from now, once again this may be another reason I'm a virgin.

Since those nights I've told myself that I'm not resting until I get down to 180-185 lbs. I know this is possible within a year but I don't have that kind of time, I'm talking about a few months, by the end of summer no less, preferebly before. I need to change my lifestyle accordingly.

Pretty much what I'm trying to get out of this Site is advice on how to go about loseing my virginity. I really have no problems being a virgin but having no experience with a female is quite depressing to most. As much as I hate to say it all I really want is to pick up a girl at a party, have sex, and then be done with it, if she feels the need to call me or wants to start something then I'm all for it, but right now is a crucial time in my life were I need to assert myself into a type of masculine role, because being the nice sensative guy that really does listen to a woman hasen't gotten me anywhere.

So basically this is a plea for help, a shout-out saying, "I'm sick of laying down and taking the ridicule, I want to be the one with the girl at the end of the night, not the one listening to it."

So basically this is a plea for help, a shout-out saying, "I'm sick of laying down and taking the ridicule, I want to be the one with the girl at the end of the night, not the one listening to it."

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Stories like yours always touch a nerve with me, because I know how you are feeling, as I was in the same place as you are now, many years ago. I don't like sharing my story, but I hope it makes you feel better and helps you to see how things can turn around, if you take action.

I was always shy growing up, but had alot of friends because I was good at sports. Yet I was too busy for girls (at least that is what I told myself).

I hurt my leg badly when I was 16 and gained weight... I think I topped out at 240 (6 foot).. when my leg healed I was so badly out of shape I felt ashamed of myself and I became even more reserved around women.

My last year of high school I decided I had enough, and started to workout. I dropped down to maybe 200 or so... I had girls tell me I was cute and a couple even called and asked me out, but I was too inexperienced to know what to say... so I ended up just telling them I didn't want a g/f, but thanks. I made myself feel better by saying "next time"

I kept working out and eventually had the body I always dreamed of... but no g/f to share it with. Next time never seemed to come... because I wasn't taking action. I was being a punk and not putting myself out there to be with a woman.

When I went away to college, I was still shy and became increasingly frustrated, just like you are. Before I left for school, I asked my friend who was a "player" how to talk to women.. he gave me some good advice: "Just talk to them like you are bullshitting with a guy, and ask alot of questions"

Now in my case, I wasn't going to change who I was or lose my self respect just to get laid. I refused to lose my soul just to be with someone - it wasn't worth it to me.

I wanted my first time to be with someone I loved - I wanted it to be special.

On the outside I had this nice body, but on the inside I still felt like I was fat and disgusting, and repulsed girls.

Sometime during the first month of school, I was at a party and this beautiful girl starts talking to me... so I'm just trying to not act like a total goober. She asked me if I wanted some of her beer and I tell her no I don't drink.. she then dumps her cup into my friend Paul's glass and says "Ya I just drink socially" (he just looked at her and then drank it -was some pretty funny shit).

I got up the nerve to ask her to go for a walk... long story short we got into a relationship. It turns out she was a part time model for Elite and would be moving back to NY at the end of the semester.

She wanted me to come live with her, but I needed to finish school. Then soon after my grandfather got sick and I had to move back home to care for him. I then met Amanda, working at my mom's daycare. She asked my mom to meet me (she worked upstairs with the infants).

I was nervous, but after mulling it over, realized you don't get anywhere without going out of your comfort zone, just like I did with Jenny. So I met her the next day and we ended up dating to... ends up she was a model as well. She did wedding catalogs and shows, etc.

So I suddenly found myself going from not dating, to dating two models back to back. It was surreal, but it really boosted my confidence. My friends would make jokes and say I only dated models, cause I thought I was too good looking for "ordinary" girls, etc. It made me feel good, and I slowly started to realize maybe I was no longer the overweight kid I still felt like.

Eventually we broke up on very amicable terms, and I met my current g/f who I met 6-7 years ago.

With Jenny and Amanda, I was never in love, and while we fooled around we never had sex.

When I met my g/f, I fell totally in love, and she is the one I first had sex with. I was a total dufus the first few times, and she lovingly helped me along and took control of things, and taught me all the right things to do.

Within maybe two months I was the dominant one, ripping her panties off in the middle of a park and bending her over a rock.. throwing her on her parents bed and having sex with her, with her parents in the next room... I even gave my g/f her first g spot orgasm (eventhough she had been really sexually active).

Over the years, I read and learned as much as I could about sex... I talked to other girls about what they liked, I made things up in the heat of the moment... I took it upon myself to become the best lover she ever had. I took action - again.

That is what you gotta do - take action. Nothing ever comes to those who wait - believe me.

As for having sex just to say you did - don't.

You can't just have sex with anyone, especially someone you don't care about. You want it to be special bro. You want to be able to be with that person again and again, and learn how to become a good lover to her... because you willl learn sex isn't about getting yourself off, it is truly a selfless act.

When you really love someone, you want to please her, and make her feel amazing everytime. When you are with someone you don't care about, that isn't sex, that is fucking.. and it is a selfish act that leaves you empty.

Don't let society change who you are... work on yourself and lose the weight.. and as long as you don't hide away, you will meet someone special - I promise that.

Let me start by stating that there is NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING A VIRGIN! :mad

Good golly! Who decreed there was a best-before date for it! Your a young man. You sound like a perfectly decent, normal guy. May I suggest you try to relax and be yourself. Instead of someone else. May I also suggest you start broadening your horizons with regard to where and how you meet women. Your frustration is understandable, but your going to have to be proactive on this one if you want results. But please, for heaven's sake, be yourself.

You shouldn't change yourself or who you are just so girls will hook up with you. I'm guessing you want a 'nice' girl because if you didn't you would of already paid for it. There's nothing wrong with being a virgin!

You shouldn't change yourself or who you are just so girls will hook up with you. I'm guessing you want a 'nice' girl because if you didn't you would of already paid for it. There's nothing wrong with being a virgin!

First, as others have said and I can't emphasize enough: Virginity is nothing to be embarrassed about.

Second - For the love of all things holy, please don't dumb yourself down just to get laid. I know the world is crowded with idiots but there really are genuine people out there who will respect and admire your intellect. I've always been hot for smart guys, but I'm a brainiac myself so it's a given. Please, smart girls like me NEED smart boys like you. There just aren't enough.

Third - I know you desperately just want to get laid, but encounters like the one you described with your friend on the couch are just icky. That's not good sex. It will be 100 times more rewarding with someone you genuinely care for. If you really, really want to just pop your cherry and get it over with, seek the services of a professional. I'm totally serious. I wouldn't recommend a street corner hooker, but a professional escort. If you can afford her fee, it will be worth every dime.

Finally - You mentioned that you'd like to lose some weight. I'm wondering if you're guilty of focusing your attention on life-size Bratz dolls? I don't know you, so I'm just speculating. But I have noticed with some disdain that many men who score low on the looks scale still feel entitled to hot babes. Lame! If you're frustrated that beautiful women are too superficial to get involved with a Nice Guy(TM) like yourself with brains to boot, look in the mirror. Then consider the fact that there's probably a really Nice Girl(TM) with brains to boot who you've been overlooking, and who would probably be more than happy to get freaky with you

Also:

May I also suggest you start broadening your horizons with regard to where and how you meet women.

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Have you tried meeting girls who share your interests, whatever those may be? Join a club, volunteer, get active in a community or whatever. If you're not much of a drinker or a partier, then stop trying to pick up drunk trashy chics at parties. Go to the library, join a book club or something. You never know until you try!

There's a few thing I want to pick up on in your post. Some you probably won't want to hear but I'll try and keep it short and get plenty of good bits in too. The bottom line is if you want to lose your virginity then feel free to "act" as someone else. If you want a relationship then you'll need to be yourself otherwise it's doomed to failure.

If you are carrying a lot of fat then it is a barrier you will need to overcome. Don't go thinking that all women want someone who's toned and muscular, that's just not true. I can speak from first hand experience on that one. Pop over to my blog and you'll see I'm not exactly light on my feet. Don't go thinking that it is only an issue for the woman to get over though, being overwight tends to play on your mind and although you may think your confidence is fine it could probably do with a little work.

So how do you go about getting laid? The best advice I can give you is to pick up a book called "The Game" by Neil Strauss. It's got all the tips and tricks you'll need and it will start you on your journey to being a good PUA (Pick Up Artist). However, take heed of what he concludes with. A lot of the book talks about treating women as objects you can manipulate. While this is sometimes true you won't actually get any long-term satisfaction doing it.
Another thing I'd like to mention is, stop thinking you are superior to women. All this talk of "I use smart words" so that must be a turn off. Bollocks. Some women are smart, some are dumb, just like blokes. Find the smart ones, hold a conversion but learn to pick up on the subconcious clues that most women are giving off. I'm betting that there's been plenty of times when you could've scored but all the signals have gone over your head. Is she playing with her hair? Does she feel comfortable touching you? Does she hold eye contact for that split second too long? Does she ignore her friends to talk to you? etc etc

Basically what I'm trying to say is stop over analysing it and get out there. Put yourself out a little bit. If you want an intellectual girl then stop trying to pick people up at parties and head out to the opera or the theatre.

I'm sorry I've come across very unsympathetic. I hope you can forgive me for this tough love.

Apologies for the crap post above. I don't know why it hit a raw nerve it just did.

Anyway, good luck with your ventures. I'd go for being yourself and not putting up an act just to lose the big V. I lost mine at 15 and regret it. I wish I'd waiting for the right girl. Mind you it's easy to say that when you've already lost it.

We drank and played Waterfalls and had a good time, at the end of the night while she was leaving I probably made the biggest mistake of my life, "I'm sorry if this is to forward but could I have your number?" Yep you heard correctly I said that, as you can see, the experience meter just dropped 10 fold. She said she had a boyfriend and left it at that, I understood and thought it was cool until the next day.

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There is nothing wrong with how you asked for her number.

Your pals probably bang drunken hos. They are the easiest. And you don't need much training to screw a chick after you've gotten her drunk and told her many times just how pretty she is. All you have to do is sit back and talk about her for a good hour or two until the alcohol takes effect.

You are an intellectual--you think a lot. Along with this, there is usually a correlation with maturity (not always true.) You seem mature as well. One result of "maturity" when combined with "intelligence" is the ability to conceptualize who you are and what you want and how things are done--the formation of "personal values."

If you wanted to get a chick drunk and fuck her brains out then tell your friends about the entire thing, you would have already done it. Instead of skipping the number and offering to share your bed--perhaps you were asking for more than you thought, mate.

You asked for that girl's number and she said no--probably because she really has a boyfriend, and if she wanted sex, she would have had it with you that same evening if you had been aggressive enough. Girls sometimes give out numbers to guys so they can have sex with a guy casually--without any emotional attachment. Or at least free alcohol for a summer on top of that. That is like a jack-pot right there--a summer of one-night-stands. This is just as easy to set up--the statistical possibility is lower, however. This means you need to work about 3-5 girls every week--you'll get turned down 90% of the time, but around the 10th girl, you'll get that number.

But I think it is more likely that you are not of the character necessary to do such things. You ought to just start working for a romantic relationship with a woman--something gathered over the course of a month or two and meant to stand the test of time. You won't meet her at a drinking party--this is much harder to get.

Ultimately, once you have sex (and you will sooner than you think), you'll realize that the line between virgin and not-virgin is all in people's heads. You'll be the same guy you were before you had sex--and you won't get much experience with one-night-stands. Only relationships can help you gather experience. (I bet your buddies are terrible at having sex with women.)

If you want to have sex the easy, fast way--just keep going to parties and flirt as blatantly as possible and get her drunk and talk about her the entire time. That's it. (As a side observation, girls are more easily frightened by men than we think--some girls get very uncomfortable when they are being seduced. If you find yourself intimidated by talking to a woman, it is likely that she is even more so.)

I agree with everyone else, nothing wrong with being a virgin, especially at your age. I was 27 when I lost my virginity, and it really wasn't with someone I care to remember. So rushing it just to get some will cause some regrets down the road if you're a nice guy like me. Again repeating advice, be yourself. No one wants someone who is fake. However also realize that in being yourself, you need to be comfortable with yourself. If you always percieve yourself as having shortcomings, then these will continue to affect you. Be confident in yourself. By the way your friend is not your friend if he did that right there with you on the floor, he should have been sympathetic to your situation and gone to the bedroom to begin with. I went through that same kind of stuff before I had sex the 1st time. I had a "friend" who would put me down so he would look better in a certain girl's eyes. Once I got away from him I noticed more women that would pay more attention to me. So lose the "friend" cause he's not going to bring you anything but trouble. Please do not become one of these alpha male jackoffs just for the sake of having sex.

Wow, so many different opinions and most all with the same message to get across. To tell the truth I'm really not that embarassed about being a virgin. Females have never laughed at me when they've found out and some of them even think it's cool. The problem with that is that todays society is filled with "unintelligent" people. People who could care less what the meaning of a word is as long as it can get them something they desire.

It's been 1 day and alreadt my ambition to lose weight has gone from 100 to around 25-30. At the start I wanted to be tone and really skinny, but now I'd be happy to just be down to average guy size. I'm stll having problems with that so any help in the area of dieting and exercise would be mucho appreciated.

As much as I hate to admit it even though I can talk big to my friends and degrade woman in front of them and act like all I really want is a peace of ass, it's not true. I'm not going to lie if a girl game up to me at a part and told me to fuck her brains out then I'm all for that. Most of the time I see guys treat girls like shit and then come off with complimants to override what they just said, and most of the time the girls fall for it. When I've tried to be sort of an asshole to a female I feel like complete shit saying something mean of offensive to them.

The problem with me is that I care way more then I want to in this stage of my life. I'm almost just 20 years old, I really want to just be partying and getting girls at this stage, when I get to around 25-28 mark then I relaly want to get a girl that I really like and maybe have a really good relationship with. Right now though all I want is to have fun and get laid, as primitive as that sounds.

As for the eye contact thing I'm not to sure how good that will work on intoxicated girls at partys, since most of the time their eyes are wandering or doing something odd. Even before they get drunk they probably won't remember anything that happened before that time so it'd be a new slate for them.

I really am a fan of my intelligence, being able to have a heated conversation on current events is just awsome to me, the ability to argue your point in any matter with such a heated certainty because you know the facts of your side, rather then say something like, "Dude, this chick gave me her number, dudeI know she wants my cock, duuuuude." Basic utter barabaric responses.

Something I thought of now that I didn't originally think of at the time is appearence. Like I've stated I'm not the lightest guy but I don't think I'm ugly by any means, but does style, haricut, and w/e else goes with appearence play a huge role even in a drunk enviorment, and if so then how can I altar my style to fit into something girls would be more attracted to?

Alot of you showed a concern about me becoming a complete asshole to woman and making them feel like shit just to get into their pants. Since more then likely any of the partys I'll be attending will have any female with an IQ over 88 I'm going to try not to use bigger vocabulary around them. Example of "bigger" vocabulary, me and a couple friends were discussing penis size yesterday and I put the work Girth into the discussion, the discussion ended there because both of them had no idea what the word meant...:-/ I really would like to find someone as an intellectual equal of even superior but I'm not going to persue it until I get my selfish wants out of the way.

Another thing I just thought about is when I think back I've the worst inability to talk to girls I've ever seen, I mean yesterday my friend picked up this girls number and I thought dude had absolutly no chance and he got it, how...? I mean he's one of the ones that didn't know what girth meant, I'm not gonna lie, he's a fairly smart dude but it's like he stores it away and never taps into it. I don't want advice on pickup lines or common pharses to say to a girl to get laid, but rather the tone and maybe a type of topic to talk about in front of her or to her.

Basically right now my infatuation with sex is extreme, it's basically all I care about at this point in time, even if I did have the money though I will never pay for sex, I've earned everything I've wanted to an extent and this isant any different in my eyes.

Well as you can see I've written another essay on the joys of my virginity, hopefully this discussion will open some eyes about things woman or men may not have known, what I could bring to the table for that though is beyond me. So until my next post, I will not plea anymore, but more of a request for help in the world of sex.

Wow, so many different opinions and most all with the same message to get across. To tell the truth I'm really not that embarassed about being a virgin. Females have never laughed at me when they've found out and some of them even think it's cool. The problem with that is that todays society is filled with "unintelligent" people. People who could care less what the meaning of a word is as long as it can get them something they desire.

It's been 1 day and alreadt my ambition to lose weight has gone from 100 to around 25-30. At the start I wanted to be tone and really skinny, but now I'd be happy to just be down to average guy size. I'm stll having problems with that so any help in the area of dieting and exercise would be mucho appreciated.

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I am a walking encyclopedia on fitness and diet, so I will offer up some advice on that in a minute, but first...

I grew up in the inner city - and luckily my parents where educated and thus it was passed along to me.

But my friends where not, and their vocabulary was somewhat limited. However I never judged them because of it

When I'm around my friends I talk just like them, and when I'm around family and others who are more educated I use my full vocabulary. It is possible to switch between both, without feeling like you are belittling anyone.

However, I did break up with Amanda because I felt I couldn't have an intellectual conversation with her beyond what she bought shopping the evening before. She was a great person, but I needed a little more from her intellectually.

I never feel like anything I say goes over my g/f head - and in fact she challenges my views and stimulates me on both a physical and intellectual level. That is something I NEED with a woman to be happy... intelligence means alot to me. Looks don't mean much if there isn't anything upstairs, I feel. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from.

It seems as if intelligence in your g/f and future wife is going to be a big thing for you, correct? I think you need to consider that, because as I found out and you will to, a beautiful girl who is kind of superficial won't do it for you long term.

As for wanting to just party now and get laid, that is how you feel and I'm not going to talk you out of it. You do run the risk of becoming that which you despise and starting to treat women like objects, with the more one night stands you have.

As for diet and fitness...

When I started out years ago after I ripped up my knee, I couldn't even do 5 minutes on a ski machine. I think I did 3 minutes the first time and fell off almost in tears because my legs hurt so badly. So I started out at the bottom, believe me. I know it won't be easy for you, but I speak from experience when I tell you it can be done if you learn to discipline yourself.

I now run over 5 miles a day, running about a dozen hills in each session. Then 3-4 times a week I lift weights, doing circuit training. I will do all of my sets without rest. Then jump rope in between each circuit.

I don't believe in ever standing around... that is why I get more out of a 40 minute routine than most people do in a 2 hr session of taking 30-60 second rests between sets.

I have done tons of workous in my life and tried it all. Running (especially hills) combined with circuit training is the BEST fat burning workout you can do. It melts fat away like a blowtorch to an ice cube.

So my advice is for you is to get a subscription to Men's Health right now. It will be the best gift you ever gave to yourself. Then start walking 1-2 miles each day. After about a month try walking/jogging... try to run 100 steps.. then walk... run 100 steps... walk... each day try to improve and run just 20 steps more.

Before you know it, you will be up to a mile of straight running. You have to push yourself beyond your comfort zone each time out, but don't over do it.

Your legs will ache like hell the first couple of weeks, so be sure to stretch them out well.

Right now you want to just trim fat, so I would stick to just cardio. When you lose about 30-40 lbs, and are running 2-3 miles a day, then you can start to train with weights. There are alot of workouts you can do, but just look online for circuit training routines. Again, it will take awhile to build up to these kinds of routines, but you will have a nice aerobic base to start from (running 2+ miles a day)

You will need to cut out about 500 calories a day to start losing a lb a day.

If you drink alot of pop/soda, stop. That is the worst shit in the world for you. One 12 oz can of Pepsi is 150 empty, useless calories. Switch to Propel flavored water (10 calories).

I eat alot of cereal. It is low in calories, and when combined with skim milk, is a good source of protein. Just be sure to get a high fiber cereal below 8 grams of sugar. I eat alot of Life, Special K, Mulitgrain Cherrios, etc. I probably have 3-4 bowls a day.. it kills any hunger pangs I have and really helps me to feel full.

Also, allow yourself one cheat day a week. Don't go overboard, but eat what you want on that day.

You can't deny yourself things or you will get frustrated and quit.

The key is to remain consistent and don't beat yourself up when you miss a workout or eat things you shouldn't.

It's hard to give you all the advice you need on here, but this is a good base to help you get started. Then start reading everything you can about fitness and diet.

So you're not worried about being a virgin. Good
You have a healthy interest in sex. Good
You want to treat a girl with respect. Great
You want to lose weight. Eat right and get some exercise. There's tonnes of stuff out on the net. Start with the Weight-Loss-Forum,there's plenty of stuff on there.
You want to lose your virginity. Pick up a copy of "The Game" by Neil Strauss and get reading. There's some lame lines but it's more theory, approach startegies, ways to build confidence, transition through the stages effectively etc etc.
And to carry on my unsympathetic streak...if your friends don't know the meaning of the word "girth" then get some better ones, they're morons and the sex is likely to be crap anyway.

So today is Friday, May 25th 2007, last ngiht was definitly one of the best nights of my life if not the best. One of my new friends definitly...somehow convinced me to go to a club. Now this may not sound hard or weird but I've never been to, seen, or cared about clubs...ever. So I got some jeans on, with a stripped blue and white button up collard shirt and we left to meet our ride, our ride happened to be to females, who's names I'll leave out of respects sake. On the way up there my friend and them were talking and what not having a good time, and I was sitting there about ready to throw up and puke. When the girls talked to me I talked back, I've got no problem talking with girls, just initiating the conversation is a bit off-centered for me. So our rides friend could tell I was nervous and I told them it was my first time ever going to a club or being in this kind of social enviroment, though I didn't use social enviornment, I used "first time going to a club or anything like it." Why did I say that? Simply because I was takeing peoples advice, I was dumbing myself down so to speak but only to the extend of my vocabulary. Our rides friend and I sorta talked a little and like I said she could tell I was nervous, she talked me down and told me once we got there she'd livein me up. Now I dunno if that's normal talk for people going to a club or not but it made me feel better. When we got to the Necto it wasent quite that busy but it wasent dead, we went in an basically walked around while I looked around. IT's basically a 3 level club with a Patio outside type tihng with a bar, a dance floor level, and an upper level with another bar. From what I've heard most clubs can be stingy, nasty, and foul. This club was as clean as it can get for mostly teens and the whole time I was there there were no fights and everyone was pretty cool. So for the first I dunno 1.5 hours I pretty much hung out with my friend next to the dance floor, standing there watching, then the girls we came with came upstairs and we talked a little, I could tell they wanted to dance but I'm not a good dancer...I didn't think..lol. So I waited expecting someone to come to me, bad idea that'll have to change next time I go, so our rides friend came over and pulled me onto the floor...yep, definitly scared shitless because like I said, first time i've been to a club and I was tryin to see how everyone was dancing, mostly it was the guys standing there slightly moving while the girls were grinding on them and whatnot, so I was like....ok, so we got to the middle of the dance floor of all places and she started grinding on me and stuff, just dancing and it took me a second, but I got into the rhythm and started movin with her. I kept my hands to myself because I have respect for all woman regardless of what anyone says about them, if they don't disrespect me or show reason to be disrespected then they deserve all the respect in the world, so then she definitly takes my hands and puts them on her stomach and moves them all around and down to here waiste and ass and I was having a hard time doin the beat thing while trying to watch my hands, so she turns around dancing towards me and tells me, "Don't be afraid to touch me, this is a club, if people don't wanna be touched, they shouldn't be out here." Very good point so after that I loosened up. Later in the night she started dancing with another guy, in which I was cool with because she's not my girl for 1, for 2 I was dancing with her while she was dancing with him for a bit, and for 3 the dude had no game, which I shoudln't be talkin, lol. Still later that night she came up to me and told me the dude was a complete asshole, he was talkin bout alchohol in his car and shit, bragging about it evidently, now this girl has to be maybe 21-23, and really doesent need to be bragged to about alchohol. That's 1 thing she didn't like and the other is that she was getting them BOTH a drink and the dude evidently said something about not paying or something? Yah, you definitly don't go to a club and dance with a HOT ass girl and don't buy her a drink, or maybe you do? I dunno because that was my first time. Throughout the night I madeout with her maybe 2-3 times while we were dancing and whatnot and that was cool, what wasent cool was when people looked at us and looked like something was off with us, now normally it wouldn't matter but I'm tihnking it was because she was black, and it was only likw 1-2 people that did that, so it really don't matter, but it's still annoying. While we were dancing she said she really like it that I didn't freak out when she dancing with the other dude and that I was cool about it the whole way through, like I said earlier she's not my girl, I don't want to contorl her, I have no right to control her, and neither does anyone else. If she was my girl I'd be a little jealous but it's only dancing, at the end of the night I'd know that I'm the one she's leaving with by her choice, not anyone else. After the club closed everyone stood outside for like 15 minutes, drama happened between out ride a guy that had talked shit to her and he made her cry, but before that I was talkin to the girl I'd danced with and she was really into different cultures and wanted to decorate the rooms of her house in different styles, which I thought was awsome. She is definitly a very strong and independent woman who definitly hasent had the best luck with me in the world, which doesent surprise me since most men..are prehistorical cavemen. While we were talking I was into everything she was saying, I didn't have to act either becuaes I really was but I still kepy my vocabulary to a minimum ammount of sylls but still talked heatidly about what she liked. My friend has been tutoring me on how to get a girl or how to hook up with one and he said one of the basic rules is if a girl offeres you something you take it, I evidently made that mistake in the car when she offered me orange juice and I declined because I had just brushed my teeth, and I said that, but he said it don't matter. At the club whenever she saw me and came up to me and offered me a drink then I toop a few sips and called it that, which definitly seemed to make her feel better which make me feel better. I was Designated "Dave" on the way home, had to drive out rides car back to Jackson from Ann Arbor, which was cool because I'd of gotton a hotel room before I'd let anyone drive even while slightly buzzed. So all in all that was my story from last night, my first REAL social event and it went fairly well I think, I plan on going back to that club next Thursday with my friend and doing it all over again, this time I'm not posting pleaing for help, this time I'm posting to say that hooking up with or talking with girls really can't be taught, there are little tricks and tips along the way that may help but 95% of it is just you and I realized that last night, I can't come into these forums and expect you guys to tell me how to approach a girl and dance with her, I have to do that by myself. I'm still going to be floating around the Forums and as I progress with the social life so will my posts and threads on different matters and hopefully all of you that replied to me here will be attentive readers in my future writtings.