My point is that a sleeveless shirt in Church is not suitable attire for either men or women. Indeed in India I wore a blazer when visiting places of worship, out of respect.

In my experience, people don't wear sleeveless garments to church there. "Short sleeves", yes, but certainly nothing that involve revealing necklines or exposed shoulders. I know of cases where girls buy Western style sleeveless wedding gowns and show up to church only to have the priest or bishop read them the riot act, often in front of all the guests, and refuse to begin the wedding until they are appropriately attired.

Coming from the SSPX side into Eastern Orthodoxy I want to take the middle ground. I am not going to say that stupid thing that pretentious trads say: "Can you picture the Virgin Mary wearing that?" No, I would like to say, but I can't picture in what you are wearing either so....but I would just consider your neigbour. I do not think it should be a terrible temptation for a normal man as long as we are not talking cleavage, middrift, etc. Something like this would be fine, I think:

I assume it is something similar to that. Trying to be less rigorous it's hard for me, but I am inclined to say I would not be too concerned. The traditional Catholics can be not only so rigorous on the matter but legalistic. Like what I posted is a venial sin. Something showing middrift and cleavage would be a mortal sin. I really think you're fine outside of liturgy, though some of the writings of the early fathers may make you think different like "On The Apparel of Women"http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0402.htm by Tertullian

And the link from Tertullian was meant half as a joke, but of course halfway for your benefit, my lady. Can never go wrong with the fathers, though some of it must be taken in the right spirit. It can be read to the point of hypocritical rigor and scruple against wearing even makeup or putting on earrings. The golden mean is golden though.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

I do not think it should be a terrible temptation for a normal man as long as we are not talking cleavage, middrift, etc.

Here we go, placing the foibles of some men on all women. You could bring a woman into my presence naked. I would be OK. If most men are honest, arousal which is not temptation, is an irreducibly complex phenomenon. Men who want to pretend to be foreverpotent will exaggerate the effect of the appearance of a woman on their psyche.

Most women are sensible. When in Rome . . . Frankly, when women step outside the norm, it is rarely provocative in an arousing manner but rather in an uncomfortable manner. For example, my once seeing a woman wearing to what amounted to a transparent dress to a DL. I could have told you the cut and color of her underwear. I wasn't aroused, just a little unsure of how to act to mitigate her embarrassment before I told her later of her clothing predicament.

Everyone who was "too shy" to do what I did, I asked some women to talk to her, none were particularly aroused or angry, just wanted to avoid embarrassing her.

I guess it was a dress that didn't look see through up close and when wearing it.

Now, if you take the same situation and place it in place where sex is the reason for being there, a club or whatever. Then it is quite different. But then, it is also NBD cause that is reason why everyone is there.

When in Rome. Guys who are forever tempted will be no matter what you do and in my experience the more society capitulates to that "weakness" the worse it makes the weakness, not better.

Truth. Otherwise, men should never be in sleeveless shirts in public. My brother makes fun of me once for wearing a wifebeater once at home when a friend of his was over. Then again, that could be because there was a hole the size of my stomach in it (pretty big, FYI). Still, sleeves or go home (and put sleeves on).

Would it be immodest to take off one's sweater in the car in the middle of summer (or at least pretty hot) when one is in mixed company and one is wearing a spaghetti strap dress?

God will surely bless you, Anastasia. You think and care more about these details than I do, and if modesty has taken that much root in your soul, it will be reflected outwardly, even on a hot day when you have to take off your sweater lest you faint.

I like cap sleeves best. The not-quite-sleeveless effect flatters everyone. Like this:

Logged

'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

I like cap sleeves best. The not-quite-sleeveless effect flatters everyone. Like this:

I've never seen a white woman make this particular pose before. Maybe when mocking how young men pose.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 09:12:25 PM by NicholasMyra »

Logged

Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son

...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

My point is that a sleeveless shirt in Church is not suitable attire for either men or women. Indeed in India I wore a blazer when visiting places of worship, out of respect.

In my experience, people don't wear sleeveless garments to church there. "Short sleeves", yes, but certainly nothing that involve revealing necklines or exposed shoulders. I know of cases where girls buy Western style sleeveless wedding gowns and show up to church only to have the priest or bishop read them the riot act, often in front of all the guests, and refuse to begin the wedding until they are appropriately attired.

In the small OCA church I used to attend, women, particularly old women having hot flashes would wear sleeveless dresses or blouses that exposed their sagging arm muscles. Then they would ceaselessly fan themselves. In spite of it all, we were glad that they made it to church as the church lacked a decent air conditioning system, and that was hard on them.

Logged

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

I like cap sleeves best. The not-quite-sleeveless effect flatters everyone. Like this:

I've never seen a white woman make this particular pose before. Maybe when mocking how young men pose.

You've seen non-white women do it?

Is this picture taken of a model? If so, it was the photographer's suggested pose, nothing more.

Logged

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.