i like the first option better. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised is Ayers gets cut and replaced by Beal/Jackson

You can't be serious??? This is a joke, right?

I like the 1st option better also. Haven't seen much of Beal, (only saw last weeks game) but I love what I've seen from Jackson. I doubt either could clear waivers and make it to the PS. Never been a fan of Ayers although he did show improvement last year.

So...... doubtful if we keep all three. Who do you think should be odd man out? One of the two promising young guys or a guy that's never lived up to expectations and has been sliding steadily down the depth chart?

Who's expectations has Ayers not lived up too? Yours? The coaches will decide not fans. My opinion won't matter any more than yours but I think Ayers will stay and probably Beal will get cut. Ayers has improved every year and wasn't last season his first as a DE and not a OLB? Actually both could make the squad since Jackson is also a DT as well as DE as is Wolfe.
I know Del Rio don't seem too impressed with Ayers either so we will see Friday.

Well let's be honest, if Hunter was healthy, Ayers would be cut, no doubt in my mind. +I'd personally rather see Jackson moved to a DE position behind Wolfe, Beal behind Doom and keep Garland, although he hasn't impressed me as much as I thought either. Ayers is a solid run defender, not sayinghe doesn't have value there. But in my mind, a DE should have some sacks and Ayers has 4.5 in two years as a DE (left out his rookie/LB year) and seems to the 18th overall pick should be a little better. The guy has ONE good year in college to gain that draft status ( thanks again, McDummy) and he's been nothing more than mediocre IMO. Beal has shown he can pressure the QB ( in the NFL and college) so that's why he's my choice over Ayers

You say, "well, let's be honest" and then you make another silly statement! I doubt if Ayers would be cut so Denver could keep Beal, Jackson or Garland. Ayers has proven that he can play in the NFL and Beal, Jackson and Garland has proven the can go through camp and play in a preseason game against the opponents 2nd, 3rd and 4th string offense. I don't care if you have no doubt that if Hunter hadn't been hurt Ayers would have been cut. I don't think the coaches care what you doubt or not. Their jobs are on the line and they are going to take the sure NFL starter last season over any 5th round selection, 7th round selection or FA. Ayers would PROBABLY get more sacks but his job is to put stop the run and if needed put pressure on the QB and move him toward Doom!
There is such a hate for McDaniels on this forum that anyone he drafted high is hated. Judge him on his ability NOT on who was the head coach when he was drafted. Ayers is doing a good job in camp but Hunter came to camp super fired up and did a great job in camp For you to want to cut Ayers so you can move Jackson to DE so you can keep Garland is just not very logical! I like Garland and root for him, but I doubt if he is a NFL DT this year or perhaps ever! If you cut Ayers he will be a NFL DE on another team in 2012!

i like the first option better. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised is Ayers gets cut and replaced by Beal/Jackson

You can't be serious??? This is a joke, right?

I like the 1st option better also. Haven't seen much of Beal, (only saw last weeks game) but I love what I've seen from Jackson. I doubt either could clear waivers and make it to the PS. Never been a fan of Ayers although he did show improvement last year.

So...... doubtful if we keep all three. Who do you think should be odd man out? One of the two promising young guys or a guy that's never lived up to expectations and has been sliding steadily down the depth chart?

Who's expectations has Ayers not lived up too? Yours? The coaches will decide not fans. My opinion won't matter any more than yours but I think Ayers will stay and probably Beal will get cut. Ayers has improved every year and wasn't last season his first as a DE and not a OLB? Actually both could make the squad since Jackson is also a DT as well as DE as is Wolfe.
I know Del Rio don't seem too impressed with Ayers either so we will see Friday.

Well let's be honest, if Hunter was healthy, Ayers would be cut, no doubt in my mind. +I'd personally rather see Jackson moved to a DE position behind Wolfe, Beal behind Doom and keep Garland, although he hasn't impressed me as much as I thought either. Ayers is a solid run defender, not sayinghe doesn't have value there. But in my mind, a DE should have some sacks and Ayers has 4.5 in two years as a DE (left out his rookie/LB year) and seems to the 18th overall pick should be a little better. The guy has ONE good year in college to gain that draft status ( thanks again, McDummy) and he's been nothing more than mediocre IMO. Beal has shown he can pressure the QB ( in the NFL and college) so that's why he's my choice over Ayers

You say, "well, let's be honest" and then you make another silly statement! I doubt if Ayers would be cut so Denver could keep Beal, Jackson or Garland. Ayers has proven that he can play in the NFL and Beal, Jackson and Garland has proven the can go through camp and play in a preseason game against the opponents 2nd, 3rd and 4th string offense. I don't care if you have no doubt that if Hunter hadn't been hurt Ayers would have been cut. I don't think the coaches care what you doubt or not. Their jobs are on the line and they are going to take the sure NFL starter last season over any 5th round selection, 7th round selection or FA. Ayers would PROBABLY get more sacks but his job is to put stop the run and if needed put pressure on the QB and move him toward Doom!
There is such a hate for McDaniels on this forum that anyone he drafted high is hated. Judge him on his ability NOT on who was the head coach when he was drafted. Ayers is doing a good job in camp but Hunter came to camp super fired up and did a great job in camp For you to want to cut Ayers so you can move Jackson to DE so you can keep Garland is just not very logical! I like Garland and root for him, but I doubt if he is a NFL DT this year or perhaps ever! If you cut Ayers he will be a NFL DE on another team in 2012!

Wow, SOMEONE has a man-crush...and it ain't no secret no more If Ayers has PROVEN anything, it's that he LOST a starting position that was GIVEN to him, not earned. Had Ayers been doing a 'good' job, he might have a chance at starting again, but he didn't even do that, he's STILL a backup ...again. If Ayers showed he had the ABILITY to get to the qb, he'd probably get the chance, but he doesn't, and hasn't. Jackson has 10x more potential than Ayers, he has SHOWN UP in camp, Ayers just attends camp, no passion whatsoever...And why is it illogical to want some on the team who wants to do more than just collect a paycheck ?

No doubt Ayers could make another team, just bet it's as a backup. As for McDummy, his personnel decisions speak for themselves, he's a terrible talent evaluator_________________

Now you may be right, I don't think so, but there seems to be enough disagreement to provide a lot of validity to Cutlers arguement.

If you believe everything the DP sports writers print, I have some ocean front property here in Kansas that I can make you a good deal on!
When news is slow this time of the year they make up crap to get people to read their articles so they can keep their jobs. I read on line the other day that Denver should go to a 3-4 defense to solve all their problems. We read these articles and never know what the coach really was saying and how much was taken out of text to keep the crap stirred up!
Yes, Friday we will see who gets cut and who makes the 53 man roster but I really don't see any Denver coaches cutting last years starting DE and move people around so they can find a job for a UDFA (Garland). If you can see it happening, great but I really don't see it.
I will say that I know you probably hear more news living around Denver than I do, but I just don't believe our coaches are really thinking about doing this.

Now you may be right, I don't think so, but there seems to be enough disagreement to provide a lot of validity to Cutlers arguement.

If you believe everything the DP sports writers print, I have some ocean front property here in Kansas that I can make you a good deal on!
When news is slow this time of the year they make up crap to get people to read their articles so they can keep their jobs. I read on line the other day that Denver should go to a 3-4 defense to solve all their problems. We read these articles and never know what the coach really was saying and how much was taken out of text to keep the crap stirred up!
Yes, Friday we will see who gets cut and who makes the 53 man roster but I really don't see any Denver coaches cutting last years starting DE and move people around so they can find a job for a UDFA (Garland). If you can see it happening, great but I really don't see it.
I will say that I know you probably hear more news living around Denver than I do, but I just don't believe our coaches are really thinking about doing this.

K-bob, you really need to drop it a bit, all I said was I wouldn't be surprised if it were to happen..... And btw. Garland has been with the team while serving our country, at least have some respect..._________________

Now you may be right, I don't think so, but there seems to be enough disagreement to provide a lot of validity to Cutlers arguement.

If you believe everything the DP sports writers print, I have some ocean front property here in Kansas that I can make you a good deal on!
When news is slow this time of the year they make up crap to get people to read their articles so they can keep their jobs. I read on line the other day that Denver should go to a 3-4 defense to solve all their problems. We read these articles and never know what the coach really was saying and how much was taken out of text to keep the crap stirred up!
Yes, Friday we will see who gets cut and who makes the 53 man roster but I really don't see any Denver coaches cutting last years starting DE and move people around so they can find a job for a UDFA (Garland). If you can see it happening, great but I really don't see it.
I will say that I know you probably hear more news living around Denver than I do, but I just don't believe our coaches are really thinking about doing this.

Lighten up a little. If you notice, I've never mentioned garland, and only asked you a couple of questions (which you never answered) about choices between Beal, Jackson and Ayers.

Brought up an article supporting Cutlers point of view and you just dismiss it as junk.

Now you may be right, I don't think so, but there seems to be enough disagreement to provide a lot of validity to Cutlers arguement.

If you believe everything the DP sports writers print, I have some ocean front property here in Kansas that I can make you a good deal on!
When news is slow this time of the year they make up crap to get people to read their articles so they can keep their jobs. I read on line the other day that Denver should go to a 3-4 defense to solve all their problems. We read these articles and never know what the coach really was saying and how much was taken out of text to keep the crap stirred up!
Yes, Friday we will see who gets cut and who makes the 53 man roster but I really don't see any Denver coaches cutting last years starting DE and move people around so they can find a job for a UDFA (Garland). If you can see it happening, great but I really don't see it.
I will say that I know you probably hear more news living around Denver than I do, but I just don't believe our coaches are really thinking about doing this.

K-bob, you really need to drop it a bit, all I said was I wouldn't be surprised if it were to happen..... And btw. Garland has been with the team while serving our country, at least have some respect...

Yes and I just ask you if you were serious. I thought such a outlandish statement had to be a joke.
BTW, I didn't disrespect anyone by saying I don't think he are ready to be a NFL defensive tackle right now. There are lots of people that aren't ready!
You need to lighten up, we are just discussing a little football here and you are complaining because I am giving my opinion! It is all in fun. lol

Last edited by kansas bob on Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total

Now you may be right, I don't think so, but there seems to be enough disagreement to provide a lot of validity to Cutlers arguement.

If you believe everything the DP sports writers print, I have some ocean front property here in Kansas that I can make you a good deal on!
When news is slow this time of the year they make up crap to get people to read their articles so they can keep their jobs. I read on line the other day that Denver should go to a 3-4 defense to solve all their problems. We read these articles and never know what the coach really was saying and how much was taken out of text to keep the crap stirred up!
Yes, Friday we will see who gets cut and who makes the 53 man roster but I really don't see any Denver coaches cutting last years starting DE and move people around so they can find a job for a UDFA (Garland). If you can see it happening, great but I really don't see it.
I will say that I know you probably hear more news living around Denver than I do, but I just don't believe our coaches are really thinking about doing this.

Lighten up a little. If you notice, I've never mentioned garland, and only asked you a couple of questions (which you never answered) about choices between Beal, Jackson and Ayers.

Brought up an article supporting Cutlers point of view and you just dismiss it as junk.

Not much for conversation are you?

Yes, you brought up a DP article and I gave you my opinion of the article. You have the right to your opinion but I don't believe everything I read.
I thought we were having a conversation. We can still agree to disagree can't we? This is all just having a little fun while waiting for Fridays cuts. lol

Now you may be right, I don't think so, but there seems to be enough disagreement to provide a lot of validity to Cutlers arguement.

If you believe everything the DP sports writers print, I have some ocean front property here in Kansas that I can make you a good deal on!
When news is slow this time of the year they make up crap to get people to read their articles so they can keep their jobs. I read on line the other day that Denver should go to a 3-4 defense to solve all their problems. We read these articles and never know what the coach really was saying and how much was taken out of text to keep the crap stirred up!
Yes, Friday we will see who gets cut and who makes the 53 man roster but I really don't see any Denver coaches cutting last years starting DE and move people around so they can find a job for a UDFA (Garland). If you can see it happening, great but I really don't see it.
I will say that I know you probably hear more news living around Denver than I do, but I just don't believe our coaches are really thinking about doing this.

K-bob, you really need to drop it a bit, all I said was I wouldn't be surprised if it were to happen..... And btw. Garland has been with the team while serving our country, at least have some respect...

Yes and I just ask you if you were serious. I thought such a outlandish statement had to be a joke.
BTW, I didn't disrespect anyone by saying I don't think he are ready to be a NFL defensive tackle right now. There are lots of people that aren't ready!
You need to lighten up, we are just discussing a little football here and you are complaining because I am giving my opinion! It is all in fun. lol

Where did I complain about YOUR opinion, you called my opinion "silly", you called mine "outlandish" ...and I need to lighten up....right...

Ayers would PROBABLY get more sacks but his job is to put stop the run and if needed put pressure on the QB and move him toward Doom!

Sorry, but this simply isn't true. Fans of teams all around the NFL make excuses for DE's that don't put up sack numbers by saying "their job is to stop the run". I remember Falcon fans doing it for Jamaal Anderson when he was sucking it up as a pass rusher. And it isn't just sack numbers; these can be misleading, but these type of players even fail the 'eye' test, and don't even pressure the QB.

What excuse does Ayers have for not being able to pressure the QB in 3rd and long situations? Is he 'playing the run' then? No, he isn't. He probably hasn't seen a single double team in his entire NFL career, yet he still sucks at rushing the passer.

That last sentence is just made up I am afraid. Find me one sack of Doom's where Ayers has put pressure on a QB and then moved said QB towards Doom.

Ayers is a poor pass rusher; that is the be all and end all of it. He can't consistently pressure the QB in any situation, so please don't use the "he is a run defender" excuse._________________

Unrein, Warren, Bannan and Vickerson look good for the D-Tackle spots.

That leaves 2 ends, I personally reckon Beal and Ayers make it, but I think Jeremy Beal as opposed to Rob Ayers is the beneficiary of Hunter's injury.

I have zero doubt everything you wrote above will come to pass. I completely agree. I guess my only disappointment is that early reports from OTA when Siliga was playing with the starters and the coaching staff were supposedly high on him turned out to be exaggerated. I was quietly hoping he would turn out to be a stud diamond in the rough DT. At the least my expectation was he would beat out Unrein who is the "Lance Ball" of our D line.

Good news is that our D line might actually be a strength this season. Who would have thought that?
Bad news is that our line backing corps needs to be revamped in the off season along with our safeties. Looks like Irving and Mohammed are busts. Not looking too good for Raheem Moore either. After two drafts I would say the Elway regime has shown the ability to nail their highest picks in each draft but not the ability to find very good players in the mid rounds. This is what usually separates teams that build championship depth from the draft.
Orlando Franklin is another player that is beginning to really bother me. You dont spend a high second round pick on a RT who cant pass protect. And many doubt he can be a full time guard. So what you have is a dominant run blocking RT and nothing else. Is that worth a 2nd round pick?

Besides two very notable blips, I have actually been impressed with Orlando Franklin this preseason. He looks in great shape physically and he has been maybe our standout run blocker so far._________________

Besides two very notable blips, I have actually been impressed with Orlando Franklin this preseason. He looks in great shape physically and he has been maybe our standout run blocker so far.

I have no doubt that Franklin will be a solid Right Tackle, but then again, this is coming from the guy that thinks all our middle round OL guys from the 10/11 drafts are decent players. The problem that JD, Zane and Odnalro Nilknarf have are that they tend to make one or two really bad plays per game._________________

Victor Cruz Pun wrote:

DavidatMIZZOU wrote:

Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time.

Ayers would PROBABLY get more sacks but his job is to put stop the run and if needed put pressure on the QB and move him toward Doom!

Sorry, but this simply isn't true. Fans of teams all around the NFL make excuses for DE's that don't put up sack numbers by saying "their job is to stop the run". I remember Falcon fans doing it for Jamaal Anderson when he was sucking it up as a pass rusher. And it isn't just sack numbers; these can be misleading, but these type of players even fail the 'eye' test, and don't even pressure the QB.

What excuse does Ayers have for not being able to pressure the QB in 3rd and long situations? Is he 'playing the run' then? No, he isn't. He probably hasn't seen a single double team in his entire NFL career, yet he still sucks at rushing the passer.

That last sentence is just made up I am afraid. Find me one sack of Doom's where Ayers has put pressure on a QB and then moved said QB towards Doom.

Ayers is a poor pass rusher; that is the be all and end all of it. He can't consistently pressure the QB in any situation, so please don't use the "he is a run defender" excuse.

Ayers forte is stopping the run and he seals off the run really well. Doom is the pass rushing DE but isn't nearly as good against the rush as Ayers. I don't get all the Broncos games out here in Kansas but I have seen several times where Ayers shut off the escape route and forced the QB toward Doom before we got Von. Now Von is in on third and long and Ayers moved inside.
No Ayers isn't as good of pass rusher as Doom or Von but he still did pretty well at DE for last year being his first full year playing DE. He seals off the end pretty well. He sure doesn't deserve to be cut as some of these people on this forum is suggesting. He has improved last season as the year went by.