What would it take to "drain the swamp"?

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There are many components to the "swamp." This problem is not confined to just one of the two major parties either. The Republican party ran on a platform of "draining the swamp" while ignoring the fact that there are corrupt Republicans in office just as there are corrupt Democrats in office. As long as the system operates on a basis of career politicians and the whims of lobbyists and special interest groups, nothing will change. The first step to fixing the system is to remove the option of anyone becoming a career politician.

I agree with your sentiment, but I will point out a couple of things . . .

The DNC, and Liberals in general continually paint themselves as compassionate, moral, wanting to "co-exist" and always claiming to be "all-inclusive." We know, from their behavior, not their words, that they actually are not any of the above things. As long as one of the most fiercely advocated platforms of Liberalism is abortion, no Liberal is actually compassionate and no Liberal actually has any moral values. You can't have moral values and believe that the murder of human beings is acceptable. And one certainly cannot be a Christian and actively support a politician who advocates abortion and still be serving God. You cannot support something God both abhors and forbids and still claim to serve Him at the same time.

The Lefts talk of inclusiveness and co-existing is just that: Talk. They agree with these concepts, as long as people agree with their position. Otherwise, the Left tries to openly marginalize, ostracize, silence and actively punish any who disagree with them. Things like free speech and freedom of religion evaporate if what you believe in opposes what Liberals tell you you have to believe in. We see politicians and spoiled celebrities bemoaning how badly the country has gone retrograde since Trump took office, when, in reality, nothing has changed that much. The job market has gotten somewhat better, the economy seems to be somewhat better, but I highly doubt that can be chalked up to much more than a collective sense of hope that Trump would be much more in tune with trying to help the economy than Obama was. At any rate, the real underlying angst in the Leftist camp is that what they perceived as their continuing Socialist and Liberalist juggernaut they viewed as being fast-tracked by Obama and would continue unabated with Hillary got de-railed, because in reality, the majority of the country doesn't want Socialism, and more to the point, they are sick of rich politicians, and elitist celebrities telling them what's best for them while also telling them they are backward and stupid. In other words, they are pouting because they didn't get their way, like a child who didn't get the Popsicle they asked for. In reality, the DNC is a party of spoiled brats.

Liberal politicians are envious of wealth, because they have theirs, and they have no wish to share a piece of the pie. Although they constantly bleet to anyone who will listen how much they care about the "poor" and how much they feel for minorities, they don't actually do anything to help these Special Victim Groups they claim to care so much about. In fact, it isn't lost on people who have been around for a few decades that everything a Liberal does for these groups they claim to care about actually is designed to keep them exactly where they are. You can't solve poverty by throwing money at it. The government has been doing it since the 60's and we have more poor now than ever. Welfare programs are designed to give enough entitlements to keep people on the dole where they are, but also give them no resources, or incentive, to better themselves. It keeps them locked in a cycle. And that's exactly where their controllers want them. Abortion is, and always has been, the check that is meant to keep their numbers as low as possible. That is what it was designed for from the beginning, and the obedient still willingly kill their offspring at the behest of the Left. Not only do they obey, they openly praise and defend the vehicle that is actively killing them.

Whatever a Liberal is virulently telling you is good for you is always a con job. What they are trying to sell you is good for them.

Active member

I think that would be a waste of time. I will just vote like the Lord is watching (because he is.). Ignore the rhetoric, the politicians and share the gospel that Jesus is risen, he's alive, and is returning soon.

And while you ignore the rhetoric, you leave the lies that both sides foment un-checked, and un-corrected. A Christian doesn't have that option. Every single one of us is supposed to be a watchmen, point out lies, and warn people of danger, every time the opportunity presents itself.

Active member

It is dangerous to pick any candidate and then say that they were appointed by God. God has a plan that has been in place since He started the clock and nothing is a surprise to Him. Hillary could have been elected and it would not have effected God's plan at all because He would have already known that from the beginning. God is not constrained by time, and He has already seen the end. He designed the end. Side Show Bob could be president right now and it would not affect God's plan at all.

God has allowed Trump to be in office right now. That is all the further a person can logically take that line of thought.

Isn't Kim Clement one of those N.A.R. guys who doles out false prophecies like Skittles? He even admits himself that his prophecies are often wrong. A true Prophet of God is not wrong. If they are, they are not a Prophet.

Senior Member

I agree with your sentiment, but I will point out a couple of things . . .

The DNC, and Liberals in general continually paint themselves as compassionate, moral, wanting to "co-exist" and always claiming to be "all-inclusive." We know, from their behavior, not their words, that they actually are not any of the above things. As long as one of the most fiercely advocated platforms of Liberalism is abortion, no Liberal is actually compassionate and no Liberal actually has any moral values. You can't have moral values and believe that the murder of human beings is acceptable. And one certainly cannot be a Christian and actively support a politician who advocates abortion and still be serving God. You cannot support something God both abhors and forbids and still claim to serve Him at the same time.

The Lefts talk of inclusiveness and co-existing is just that: Talk. They agree with these concepts, as long as people agree with their position. Otherwise, the Left tries to openly marginalize, ostracize, silence and actively punish any who disagree with them. Things like free speech and freedom of religion evaporate if what you believe in opposes what Liberals tell you you have to believe in. We see politicians and spoiled celebrities bemoaning how badly the country has gone retrograde since Trump took office, when, in reality, nothing has changed that much. The job market has gotten somewhat better, the economy seems to be somewhat better, but I highly doubt that can be chalked up to much more than a collective sense of hope that Trump would be much more in tune with trying to help the economy than Obama was. At any rate, the real underlying angst in the Leftist camp is that what they perceived as their continuing Socialist and Liberalist juggernaut they viewed as being fast-tracked by Obama and would continue unabated with Hillary got de-railed, because in reality, the majority of the country doesn't want Socialism, and more to the point, they are sick of rich politicians, and elitist celebrities telling them what's best for them while also telling them they are backward and stupid. In other words, they are pouting because they didn't get their way, like a child who didn't get the Popsicle they asked for. In reality, the DNC is a party of spoiled brats.

Liberal politicians are envious of wealth, because they have theirs, and they have no wish to share a piece of the pie. Although they constantly bleet to anyone who will listen how much they care about the "poor" and how much they feel for minorities, they don't actually do anything to help these Special Victim Groups they claim to care so much about. In fact, it isn't lost on people who have been around for a few decades that everything a Liberal does for these groups they claim to care about actually is designed to keep them exactly where they are. You can't solve poverty by throwing money at it. The government has been doing it since the 60's and we have more poor now than ever. Welfare programs are designed to give enough entitlements to keep people on the dole where they are, but also give them no resources, or incentive, to better themselves. It keeps them locked in a cycle. And that's exactly where their controllers want them. Abortion is, and always has been, the check that is meant to keep their numbers as low as possible. That is what it was designed for from the beginning, and the obedient still willingly kill their offspring at the behest of the Left. Not only do they obey, they openly praise and defend the vehicle that is actively killing them.

Whatever a Liberal is virulently telling you is good for you is always a con job. What they are trying to sell you is good for them.

Active member

I would say that they are not Liberals in the classical sense. John F. Kennedy would not support about 80 to 90% of today's DNC platform. But since they have adopted the mantle themselves, that's how I categorize them. Unless they are calling themselves Progressives this week. In any case, yes, they are, in reality no more than avid Socialists/Marxists dressed up in a different suit. Their deepest desire is to see the United States devolve into an also-ran Socialist cess pit.

Senior Member

I would say that they are not Liberals in the classical sense. John F. Kennedy would not support about 80 to 90% of today's DNC platform. But since they have adopted the mantle themselves, that's how I categorize them. Unless they are calling themselves Progressives this week. In any case, yes, they are, in reality no more than avid Socialists/Marxists dressed up in a different suit. Their deepest desire is to see the United States devolve into an also-ran Socialist cess pit.

Sinner saved by grace

And while you ignore the rhetoric, you leave the lies that both sides foment un-checked, and un-corrected. A Christian doesn't have that option. Every single one of us is supposed to be a watchmen, point out lies, and warn people of danger, every time the opportunity presents itself.

My point was they are mostly all liars. So if the issues come up on the ballot I will vote. I believe when the great tribulation comes the USA will be the first target, that is unless we start it. Either way we won't be spared. Pantheism, Satanism, abortion and homosexuality are now civil rights. Are we the new Babylon from Revelations? Rev 18 v 11 "Merchants of the earth will weep and morn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more-"

If he were an insider, he would not receive near the amount of grief from his own stated party as he does. He wasn't the candidate the upper echelon in the GOP wanted and they have treated him as such. You vote for who the GOP elite tell you to, whether they are the choice of the people or not. They did it with McCain. They did it with Romney. They very much wanted to do it this time around with Jeb Bush. Which would have resulted in a gigantic thud of Failure. Trump said exactly what a huge chunk of disenfranchised Americans, (much, much larger than the Left wants you to know) wanted to hear. He plugged into their anger, and he plugged into their feeling that they had no voice in a climate that, at that time, was growing more shrill by the day that you either went the Liberal way or you got kicked off the playground. Accept abortion. Accept homosexuality. Love Islam. Racism is everywhere. All cops are evil. Open borders. All men are evil. All white people are evil. Stop being a Christian. Money is evil unless I'm the one who's got it. This is the endless tirade we heard from the Left for 8 years, in increasing frequency every week. People were sick of it and Trump realized that. He used it to his advantage. And since the Left never learn from their mistakes, they are doubling down on the rhetoric and calling America stupid for still failing to buy it. You don't get people to vote for you by telling them they are stupid. That didn't work for either party in 2017.

I am not a Trump supporter, and I did not vote for him, based on some moral issues in his past. I also did not vote for Hillary because no one who supports abortion, homosexuality, or today's Liberalism, in general, will ever get my vote. I have no doubt that Trump loves America. I don't know that the term "patriot" applies, because he often says what he thinks people want to hear. That makes it difficult to glean when he is sincere and when he is not. I think he has done some good things since taking office. The one thing he has not done, which he promised to do immediately, is repeal AFCA. I also virulently disagree with his decision to take absolutely no action when it comes to the death of Jamal Khashoggi at the hands of the Saudis. What he isn't doing is putting people on plantations, locking women in closets, or doing anything remotely racist, even though the Left, and Hollywood says he is.

Trump frightens the Left for one singular reason. It isn't because he is a good speaker, he isn't. It isn't because of any deeply-held convictions, although I am sure some of them are. It isn't because he claims to be a Conservative. Trump scares the Left because he actually fights back. They aren't used to that because the GOP, the party without a functioning spine, hasn't bothered to do that for a couple of decades now. The GOP talks a lot about moral issues like abortion, and how horrible it is, but if you notice, they never actually do anything about it. The one thing Trump likes more than anything is winning. At anything. So when the Left opposes him, he will fight them tooth and nail, simply because they oppose him. The left isn't used to that and that angers them more than anything else. You don't fight the Left. That isn't allowed. You do things their way or you get escorted out of the building and banned from ever re-entering. That is what the entire "Russian collusion" non-issue is about. Trump wasn't supposed to win, Hillary was. All of it is punishment, and a large portion of sour grapes because they didn't get their way. One thing to always remember when examining anything the Left does: It is a movement based completely on Self. Everything they advocate, at it's core, is amoral.

Active member

My point was they are mostly all liars. So if the issues come up on the ballot I will vote. I believe when the great tribulation comes the USA will be the first target, that is unless we start it. Either way we won't be spared. Pantheism, Satanism, abortion and homosexuality are now civil rights. Are we the new Babylon from Revelations? Rev 18 v 11 "Merchants of the earth will weep and morn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more-"

The fact that they openly lie makes it even more imperative to address the lie. Jesus and the Apostles never encountered someone who was lying and just walked away without dealing with the lie. That is your biblical prototype.

Senior Member

The fact that they openly lie makes it even more imperative to address the lie. Jesus and the Apostles never encountered someone who was lying and just walked away without dealing with the lie. That is your biblical prototype.

Sinner saved by grace

The fact that they openly lie makes it even more imperative to address the lie. Jesus and the Apostles never encountered someone who was lying and just walked away without dealing with the lie. That is your biblical prototype.

OK. You win. I'll post that Bernie, Donald, Hillary, Liz and Susan are all liars and seem to have no Christian agenda at all. Oh wait I seem to have done that. I've been called a Socialist, a Marxist, a white hater, a Fascist and a troll. Here on CC. So I'll just oppose them the best way I can. I'll be more concerned with love, kindness and mercy than the success or failure with any party other than the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Active member

OK. You win. I'll post that Bernie, Donald, Hillary, Liz and Susan are all liars and seem to have no Christian agenda at all. Oh wait I seem to have done that. I've been called a Socialist, a Marxist, a white hater, a Fascist and a troll. Here on CC. So I'll just oppose them the best way I can. I'll be more concerned with love, kindness and mercy than the success or failure with any party other than the marriage supper of the Lamb.

I would completely fail to see what "Christian" agenda Sanders or Clinton would have when there seems to be no factors that would indicate either one of them being Christians. Donald, I have no clue and when you just toss in handles like "Liz," or "Susan" how are we supposed to even know who you are talking about?

I am not advocating the support of any political party. The Bible upholds the truth of the Gospel as the most important directive. And since no issue one can name can be removed from the Gospel, that includes lies fomented by political movements.

I'll make a note to give you a wide berth because there is no "love" in the above quote.