If that's true, they are gonna fail hard imo. If 720p vs 1080p is the only thing they expect to change, who's really going to spend the cash on a new console? Fanboys, no one else. Most people already waited 2-3 years until they bought PS3/XB360 and the difference with the previous ones was massive...

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Yeah man they have said they (gamers) have come to expect a certain level of graphics and they (MS/Sony) do not want to mess with the formula. Kinda why fix what aint broken scenario. Does it suck? Yeah but that's why this generation has lasted so long. People are content now.

If that's true, they are gonna fail hard imo. If 720p vs 1080p is the only thing they expect to change, who's really going to spend the cash on a new console? Fanboys, no one else. Most people already waited 2-3 years until they bought PS3/XB360 and the difference with the previous ones was massive...

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Agreed. It's highly unlikely that the next consoles would prioritize a resolution/framerate increase over a graphical leap in the games, simply because as stated most people don't know and don't care that their consoles are upscaling things.

Nobody console kiddie is going to be impressed that suddenly they can play Unreal Engine 3 games at twice the resolution and framerate. They will be impressed if they can play some awesome looking Unreal Engine 4 games at upscaled 720p and 30fps just like they do now... so long as their TV lies to them and says 1080p, of course.

You and I don't know what's coming from the next generation of games graphically. Sony and M$ don't really know either. They have a better idea than you and I, but that doesn't necessarily mean much.

The demo for UE4 is out there, and it shows that there is a graphical leap coming in games. How many games make the jump, how big the jump exactly is, and if it will make it to consoles, are all different questions that we can only speculate on right now.

You and I don't know what's coming from the next generation of games graphically. Sony and M$ don't really know either. They have a better idea than you and I, but that doesn't necessarily mean much.

The demo for UE4 is out there, and it shows that there is a graphical leap coming in games. How many games make the jump, how big the jump exactly is, and if it will make it to consoles, are all different questions that we can only speculate on right now.

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I'm still waiting for games to look like the UE3 demo we saw years ago. There isn't gonna be a MEGA leap. That's a fact.

Human eye can notice up to 25~30 fps, so we can worry about low peaks below those values

If the game is well programmed and has a good AMD 7000 native 3D engine, the console will deliver amazing 3d quality. Also 3 things come to my mind,

1 - sony will compete with the rest, against other consoles that have not much better hardware anyway, as far as price goes, if you consider it in the formula, no one can really come out with a super console without making it impossible to buy.

2 - A10 is today's top trinity apu, but won't be the only one. Think about A12, A14, A16, I mean, we don't really know how AMD will refresh its line of apus, we only know the line will be compatible.

3 - Developers had to optimize multithreading on the PS3 very complex architecture. So adopting the A10 should make things easier, and dual GPU would be a breeze. Several games do work nice on dual gpu configs on PC. Its just about following the developing methods learnt in these cases.

The argument "human eye can only see [x] fps" is nonsense and I'm not going into it. All I'll say on that is:
Go get 3 monitors. Set one to 30 Hz refresh rate. Set another to 60. Set another to 120. Drag some windows around on your desktop. You tell me if you notice any differences.

All I'm doing is taking a different position regarding speculation about the claims in this article and about what the next generation of console gaming might be like graphics-wise. You're not anymore right or wrong than I am, because neither of us knows. Like I said, we'll find out in a year or two.

if you consider it in the formula, no one can really come out with a super console without making it impossible to buy.

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The cost difference between the crappy GPU on an APU and a more than decent GPU like HD7870 is <$10 for AMD. Nvidia/AMD have been getting a lot less than that on console licenses. How much do you think it really costs Sony/M$? Not much more. And that is right now, as new processes are released it would cost them much less, just like it happened with PS3 and XB360. They are not doing it because of not being able to "competitively" release a console with better GPU...

The cost difference between the crappy GPU on an APU and a more than decent GPU like HD7870 is <$10 for AMD. Nvidia/AMD have been getting a lot less than that on console licenses. How much do you think it really costs Sony/M$? Not much more. And that is right now, as new processes are released it would cost them much less, just like it happened with PS3 and XB360. They are not doing it because of not being able to "competitively" release a console with better GPU...

You said several years ago. UE3 released with the consoles, mostly at the same time. Samaritan is not really UE3. It's technically UE3.5 and realistically UE4 sans a couple things.

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Yeah I realize that. I was looking for the fire fight demo but I cant seem to find it on youtube. It looked CG by todays standards even and they said it was "Realtime"

What's your point? You got on here and posted some comparison screenshots that I pointed out were irrelevant. Then you posted a screenshot of your PS3 to supposedly argue against my point that your downsized screenshots were irrelevant.

Who here is talking about casual gamers and what they care about?

The topic of conversation is "Can the PS4 render at 1080p60"... not "Do casual console kiddies care if their games are rendered at 1080p or rendered at 720p and upscaled?"

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i'm not arguing about render capability,nor jumping into PS4 render debate.You may quote any of my last posts.
just showing there's no difference between real / upscale resolution.Why Sony choose APU?Definitely Sony knew something that we don't.Console are console,targeted for most casual gamer whose doesn't even bother about upscale.

Call me a non-believer, but untill I see that APU and GPU pumping UE4 with exactly the same quality it was shown in the tech. demo at 1080p and constant 60 fps, I call BS. UE4 required what, like two 680s to run the way it looked in the demo ?

Lol all these people 1080p at 60hz isn't terribly hard to do it just depends on what else you want to do. Plus with consoles there are alot of tricks and optimizations that you'll get that a PC doesn't get just due to you only have to develop for 1 thing you can make it as specialized to that set of hardware as you want no need to cater to 100 different set ups. That being said amd's apu's blow XD And really discrete + the apu graphics, sony must really hate developers, it shows in how you get shit to work in ps3 i guess they really want people to hate making shit for their product.

Gotta love this site but seriously is it me or has this site attracted so many negative trolls for the pass several years......I missed the days when Tpuer's actually helped one another with tech issues (We still do) but it just turns into an argument fest....seems like nearly every forum I click on is like this.............

Tpuer - Shutup fools, my opinion matters more then yours!!:shadedshu

Tpuer - No it doesn't, it doesn't even make sense, my opinion is more better!

BigMack70 - Both of you idiots shutup...clearly mines more important then anyone on this site!!!!

About the PS4 TBH I'm really looking forward to it.. for exclusive titles but mainly so nextgen consoles can finally have DX11 support therefore we will start to see some better quality PC games..instead of shitty ports