It has been getting worse and worse since TBC and with the huge numbers now you can be utterly wiped out within the space of one CC chain. It ruins the fun of PvP when people get stomped like that. What reasons would you put for PvP becoming so stagnant and numbers dropping?

So now you're going to use a mis-wording as an attack, cute.
So whilst typing I missed 4 keystrokes...
Cool story...

I'm actually just amazed that you managed to speak to the majority of a heavy pop server. That is 10s of thousands of people that you personally surveyed to find out that they all hate this change. Well done!

So now you're going to use a mis-wording as an attack, cute.
So whilst typing I missed 4 keystrokes...
Cool story...

Actually I'm not attacking you for typo.

The heroic pve gear is BiS this season, so there is logically no reason that PVE heroes will complain about the current situation when they can deck out best gear by raiding? They will actually hate the change because they can no longer stomp people in full heroic thunderforged 2/2.

Originally Posted by Blizzard:
"...The competitive nature of PvP means that highly geared players can serve as a deterrent to players who are looking into trying PvP for the first time."

Okay, now this is quite wrong.
I remember back in 2007, i was entering warsong gulch for the very first time with a level 16 character. I was what you call a noob. I haven't played any mmo before and everything was totally new to me.
I got smashed.
There were several level 19 ueber-twinks on the opposite side. Even though they didn't camp the graveyard, I died every time I encountered an enemy player. I didn't stand a chance.
Okay, so how did I react?
Well...did I stop trying? - No.
Did I leave the battleground? - No!
Did I quit the game? - HELL NO!
Did this encourage me to get better in the game? Did this drive me to get better gear? Did this make me want to be overpowered one day? YES IT DID!
So this drive has made me play WoW up until today. This drive is what got me into the game. I wanted to be like these overpowered level 19 twinks.
I wanted revenge.

And now, with a 2200 rating in 3s, 180.000 hks and most PvP achievements, I look back thinking: "The journey is the reward".
Now that I'm at "the top", I do less PvP than I did before, even though I know that this time it would be me smashing the other players.

This thread should be changed to "What this ignorant player just doesn't understand".

In what universe does "because I didn't get frustrated getting my ass kicked, other people don't either" make any sense? I'm going to make an assumption (and I may be wrong) that you derive fun out of beating down under-geared players, and justify this by saying you were once in their shoes and now you're not. While I can certainly understand where you're coming from to a degree, flaunting your "2200 3's rating" simply isn't impressing anyone here and only stands to try and make yourself feel better than others.

The fact of the matter is that no one enjoys getting their ass handed to them by completely geared players when they are a fresh lvl 90, and that goes for first time players and multi-season gladiators. Just because it didnt deter your oh-so-motivated self doesn't mean that the vast majority of others don't find it horrendously boring and useless.

Sorry, general player mentality has changed since then, they'd much rather quit.

I'd wager it's purely because the game have been driven to that low mentality point, every single time someone is asking for a challenge in the game.., their directed to some niche bi-product a'la challenge modes (or the final few heroic bosses in raids) at the very end of the game, +1 on that blizzard?- I think not..!

The only mistake blizzard made which makes everything today cause issues for them, was to "develop" the game into a facebook model, which is also why a lot (Not the majority) would rather whine their lungs out on forums or quit, then buckle down n' press on to improve.

How laughable. Any decent competition has all players on completely equal footing, to ensure the outcome is based on skill alone. Maybe you enjoyed getting your butt kicked by better geared players who might have been inferior otherwise, but most of us do not. Unfortunately, while they somewhat grasp the issue, they are going about it the wrong way. Typical for them.

The best reason for this change? One less grind I have to do for something I'm only mildly interested in.
I Raid, and spend most of my ingame free time preparing to do so. These changes are nice for the times when I'm done farming mats/prepping for raid and I feel like pvping a bit to waste time or goof around with guildies.

Will I be able to compete with elite geared people? Not a chance, but I will be able to compete with others who are like me.

Originally Posted by Orlong

In addition to avoiding AIDS. I dont want to gave gay genes in me

Originally Posted by stumpy

If it involves setting you on fire and using your corpse to feed homeless people I'm all for it.

I'm sorry, but that's completely fallacious.
My priest which is my current PvP toon plays on Tich, I'm personally only 1800 in RBG's right now but the group I run with has 5 or 6 Gladiators, and all but my priest have been(and currently are) 2200+ in arena's and/or RBG's, Not a single one of them like this change and all agree that its total BS of a change, as do most players on the server, the ones not complaining about this change are the ones too lazy(or too bad) to put the time into getting some PvP gear, which is kinda sad because if its not an AV week(end) and you have a healer/tank to que with its faster run heroics to get the gear so they can get their valor caps while gearing up for pvp instead of running BG's.

I've been gearing my chars for 3 months now and I'm still nowhere near the gear lvl the drooling 2k2 rbg bads are. Yeah, good system. Not.

So OP what your actually saying is that time you got smashed in wsg inspired you to want to also be able to do that ...you want to be so highly over geared in a BG that nobody gearing up stand a chance of even touching you ..well your wish will still come true because pf pvp power so I don't really see what your getting at .

Personally I believe that they are attempting to address the wrong problem. I feel people are being put off PvP because of the terrible class balance which now exists and inconsistencies which arise due to PvP and PvE clashing. The solution would be two sets of numbers allowing them to balance PvP without impacting PvE at a much more consistent level.

They don't want to do that because it doesn't feel right.

Which is honestly one of the most idiotic reasons I've ever heard for not balancing a game correctly.

the ones not complaining about this change are the ones too lazy(or too bad) to put the time into getting some PvP gear

What does "putting in time" have to do with being "bad"? There are plenty of people in this thread that are excited for this change, some of which have mentioned they're well geared themselves, because they prefer their PvP to be challenging.

Therefore, the statement could just as easily be made that "the ones complaining about this change are the ones too bad to compete when time spent getting PvP gear is no longer the primary factor". Would you say that's a fair assessment?

the niches for this game has already been defined by the players, the new changes however will discourage the higher end players to play, so i guess if u enjoy a bunch of randoms running around with foam sticks itll be fun for you, but not for me.

This exactly, high end players that have been playing for years are going away when 5.3 hits. You will be left with nothing but bots and noobs still complaining about getting Burst down in a couple gcds. These changes don't address burst, as burst is class based and not gear based.

This exactly, high end players that have been playing for years are going away when 5.3 hits. You will be left with nothing but bots and noobs still complaining about getting Burst down in a couple gcds. These changes don't address burst, as burst is class based and not gear based.

It's funny, we need to go necro all those threads about moving from 40 man raids to 25 man raids, and about how Raiding started catering to the "casuals" about 5 years ago. There were plenty of threats back them that "high end" players would leave.

WoW needs to cater to the needs of it's entire player base. If high end players play less, so be it, but I'm not really sure why you think this change will result in that. For all future seasons, all players are going to need to get the newest gear, it just means the characters who 1) newly hit 90 or 2) have been 90 for a while but never PvPed won't be completely destroyed the second they step in a BG.

The rating was the proof. Seriously? Have you ever earned rating? Are people entering season mid way putting in the same time as those from the start? So how do you figure rewards should be the same? Would you like lfr to give all end game raid achievements? Same thing bro.

the niches for this game has already been defined by the players, the new changes however will discourage the higher end players to play, so i guess if u enjoy a bunch of randoms running around with foam sticks itll be fun for you, but not for me.

Just so we're on the same page. You imply that anyone who's getting smashed now will still be smashed after the change. There will definitely be players for which this is the case. I'm also certain there will be skilled players who benefit greatly from this change because they no longer have to throw themselves at a wall for weeks before they are viable.

However, I doubt you can speak for all the "higher end" players either. There will likely be those who depend on gear disparity to win their battles for them, and this change is going to make it abundantly clear to them than it wasn't their skill that made them successful, but there are also higher end players who are very skilled who will appreciate the change because it means more competition.

Lol and a lot of the old high end players did leave. I have seen far more skilled players bail on game last few years then Join unfortunately. Mostly due to the fact that the game rewards time and effort less and less.

Lol and a lot of the old high end players did leave. I have seen far more skilled players bail on game last few years then Join unfortunately. Mostly due to the fact that the game rewards time and effort less and less.

Time and effort only have so much to do with skill. Once you've learned what you need to do the main difference between skilled and unskilled is how quickly a player can think and how aware they are of their situation at any given moment. What you're talking about is players who play a lot and may or may not be skilled.

The term wellfare epic originated from TBC gear when they made changes to the honor system and introduced badges of justice as well as the way arena points were awareded. More difficult maybe 1000 more difficult is pushing it a lot.

To be exact....
The term "Welfare Epics" was created by Tom Chilton at BlizzCon in August 2006 pre TBC . And yep, it applies to both PVP and PVE gear.
And I don't agree with the claim made... Epic gear was not more difficult to get back in TBC. It was just more grinding in PVE. In PVP however it was as piss easy to get honor as it is now, yet still also a longer grind.

This exactly, high end players that have been playing for years are going away when 5.3 hits. You will be left with nothing but bots and noobs still complaining about getting Burst down in a couple gcds. These changes don't address burst, as burst is class based and not gear based.