Re: [Videolib] Newsreel news

I totally and absolutely agree. We've licensed well over a hundred titles
for VOD streaming BUT!:

--Every one of the titles was hand-picked and licensed based on fairly
stringent criteria: continuing, heavy use of the title and/or required
use in large classes or (to a lesser extent)reasonable cases made by
individual faculty.

--We own physical copies of everything licensed.

We constantly market and pitch the online stuff...and it's surprising how
many faculty and students could care less.

What faculty really want is the ability to put up clips and portions on
their learning management systems, or the ability to clip and use in power
point presentation.

gary

> Gary,
>
> I know this is off the Newsreel topic. I agree with most of your
> points, but I don't think we should completely discount the use of
> online content. As you suggested, curriculum should dictate the use
> of media content. That said, to the extent that quality resources -
> such as Annenberg media- can enhance curriculum we should do a better
> job positioning ourselves to act as a conduit to faculty in being able
> to discover quality relevant online resources within their context.
> Not simply the items that are on our shelves. As online environments
> increase and faculty consider new pedagogical methods, I believe this
> will be particularly important for traditionally non-media intensive
> disciplines (think physics or math) where even "the low hanging fruit"
> could be used to spur critical thinking, illustrative purposes, or new
> modes of academic expression. These resources should be suggested
> (displayed) in addition to our local collections by a combination of
> leveraged new technologies and human support.
>
> -Scott
>
> Scott Spicer
> Media Outreach and Learning Spaces Librarian
> Coordinated Educational Services
> University of Minnesota Libraries
> 233 Walter Library 612.626.0629
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 29, 2009, at 2:54 PM, videolib-request@lists.berkeley.edu wrote:
>
>> Send videolib mailing list submissions to
>> videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://calmail.berkeley.edu/manage/list/listinfo/videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of videolib digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Newsreel news (ghandman@library.berkeley.edu)
>> 2. Re: classroom use of "home and community viewing" (Jessica
>> Rosner)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:51:27 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] Newsreel news
>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> Message-ID:
>> <2587.169.229.36.120.1248897087.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Kathleen...
>>
>> You get a kiss on both cheeks and I pin the coveted Croix de Media
>> on your
>> chest!
>>
>> There's something very insidious happening here, I think. In the
>> rush to
>> fill the short term and often ephemeral needs of specific curricula,
>> to
>> offer the convenience of online access, and to mitigate the steep
>> costs of
>> collection development and maintenance, we're walking a realllly
>> dangerous
>> line. Here are my concerns:
>>
>> 1. Availability of cheap, online content will dictate what's used
>> in the
>> classroom. Faculty aren't exempt from laziness (and stupidity)...I've
>> seen the reach for low-hanging fruit happen many, many times. It's
>> the
>> curriculum that should dictate content used--NOT the other way around
>>
>> 2. As I've lamented in earlier posts: while I think the Hollywood
>> Machine
>> will ultimately build its own online field of dreams, I'm not
>> sanguine at
>> all about the scope and depth of this online universe. Optimist
>> will say
>> that the relative cost-effectiveness of delivering content on-demand
>> will
>> expand the number of feature films available (why, just look at the
>> on-demand model for the Warner Archives!)--I'm not optimistic at all
>> that
>> we'll see much more than blockbusters and mainstream "classics" hit
>> the
>> online shelves. More horrifying: if physical media go away, what's
>> gonna
>> happen to the non-fiction world--particularly the independents, the
>> odd
>> and one-offs, the self-distributors...the guys without the
>> wherewithal to
>> maintain server farms or to afford outsourcing distribution.
>>
>> 3. What happens (as you've pointed out) to the historical record?
>> The
>> "just-in-case" collection that have become the stock and trade of
>> academic
>> libraries? Distributors have never been in the business of
>> preserving the
>> cultural record; that's our job. If there's nothing to preserve for
>> the
>> long haul...god help us all.
>>
>> 4. What happens when a faculty person wants to screen a title in
>> class?
>> Please! Classroom infrastructure in most academic institutions that
>> I know
>> is very often still in a pretty sorry state. Even if its not--how
>> many
>> faculty are willing (or able) to crap shoot with the chance of network
>> connections crashing and burning, the need to install the correct
>> players
>> on laptops, the correct cables being at hand... Hell, they're still
>> clamoring for VHS here...you can cue it much more easily than DVD (and
>> just try scrubbing thru typical online streams to find a clip...)
>>
>> I think it is entirely possible and likely that VOD use can and will
>> happen in parallel with library collections on campus... I see nothing
>> wrong or harmful with making popular titles available for individual
>> student downloads...For large classes or for classes that are using
>> materials that fall outside of the collection scope of the library,
>> good
>> and well (although I would NEVER support the library's picking up
>> the tab
>> for the latter).
>>
>> On the other hand...VOD alone will NEVER be sufficient to meet the
>> broad
>> and long-term academic needs of most campuses.
>>
>> gary handman
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm glad that at Hofstra you've made that decision, but I don't
>>> think it's
>>> just about "passing along the cost to the students"
>>>
>>> I think this is something that goes directly to the core of what we
>>> want
>>> to
>>> do as educational institutions: collect information and provide
>>> access to
>>> it
>>> for preservation and research. When academic institutions can no
>>> longer
>>> afford to do this, or aren't able to collect because of
>>> restrictions based
>>> on
>>> born-digital content, it hurts our collection and impedes access to
>>> the
>>> historical record of knowledge and culture that we're trying to
>>> maintain.
>>>
>>> Never before (that I can think of) has a format change impeded the
>>> mission
>>> of
>>> libraries in this way: you could always just buy LPs or CDs or
>>> cassettes
>>> or
>>> the flavor du jour. Now licensing restrictions are making it almost
>>> impossible to grow our collections with content that isn't
>>> available on
>>> *any*
>>> carrier. (This is particularly a problem with some independent film
>>> makers
>>> who are now putting documentaries online in places like youtube and
>>> musicians
>>> who are releasing digital-only through their labels or web sites).
>>>
>>> Something's gotta give here - you can't honestly think that every
>>> student
>>> in
>>> a class is going to pay that $2.99 to view that documentary. Either
>>> they
>>> won't do the work (and faculty will change what they assign, and
>>> there
>>> better
>>> be a whole lot of love to keep these projects going), or they will be
>>> sitting
>>> in the library study rooms or someone's dorm huddled around a
>>> laptop -
>>> it's a
>>> win for the students - only $2.99! and the library's collection still
>>> suffers.
>>>
>>> I'm not claiming to have any answers, but I think it's more than
>>> just a
>>> question of budgets and who's paying for what.
>>>
>>> Kathleen DeLaurenti
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> [mailto:videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah
>>> McCleskey
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:44 AM
>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> Subject: [Videolib] Newsreel news
>>>
>>> I'm very glad Newsreel is going to experiment with this. It
>>> certainly
>>> wouldn't keep me from making an institutional purchase of a title
>>> from
>>> Newsreel. To me, this is a win-win solution. We in the library
>>> have made
>>> an
>>> institutional decision that we cannot pay for streaming rights to
>>> individual
>>> titles that are only available to a limited number of students
>>> enrolled in
>>> one course for one semester. It's just not what we do. We license
>>> stuff
>>> that is generally accessible to our entire constituency. And we will
>>> continue to purchase individual titles for the collection whether
>>> or not
>>> streaming rights are available.
>>>
>>> I'm all for streaming video, and using video especially in the CMS
>>> environment, because it makes everyone's life easier (especially in
>>> the
>>> many
>>> non-"film" classes that need to use video). I'm also all for
>>> passing that
>>> cost along to the students; it's a cost of education, and *super
>>> cheap* at
>>> $2.99 compared to what they pay for textbooks, tuition, blah blah
>>> blah.
>>>
>>> Sarah @ Hofstra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> "Lawrence Daressa" <LD@newsreel.org> 07/29/09 1:56 PM >>>
>>> Re: classroom use of "home and community viewing" DVDs
>>>
>>> With regard to the availability of titles on Amazon, California
>>> Newsreel
>>> will experiment with offering ten titles for digital rental and/or
>>> sale
>>> starting September 1 on Amazon. Some instructors with depleted
>>> acquisition budgets have requested that we make our films directly
>>> available to students for a $2.99 rental. We are eager to see how
>>> useful this option proves and whether it has a long-term impact on
>>> institutional DVD sales and streaming licenses. It is possible that
>>> for
>>> some titles individual student rental could eventually generate more
>>> revenue for producers than institutional sales. Since both options
>>> are
>>> available, Newsreel is leaving it up to the instructor to determine
>>> the
>>> ethical implications of passing on these costs.
>>>
>>> With regard to the licensing of home use DVDs, Newsreel endeavours to
>>> make as transparent as possible any contractual restrictions and DRM
>>> which may apply to any DVD at our point-of-sale. Unfortunately, we
>>> can't
>>> insure that such notices appear at points-of-sale outside our control
>>> but we can require these sellers to refund the cost of any DVD sold
>>> to a
>>> university or individual without making the terms and conditions of
>>> use
>>> explicit nor would those terms and conditions be in any way binding.
>>>
>>> Larry Daressa.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> [mailto:videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
>>> videolib-request@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:49 AM
>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> Subject: videolib Digest, Vol 20, Issue 95
>>>
>>> Send videolib mailing list submissions to
>>> videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>
>>> https://calmail.berkeley.edu/manage/list/listinfo/videolib@lists.berkele>>> y.edu
>>>
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> videolib-request@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>
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>>> videolib-owner@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than
>>> "Re: Contents of videolib digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. postcards - a plea for sanity (Vicki Nesting)
>>> 2. Re: postcards - a plea for sanity (Jesse Epstein)
>>> 3. Re: what to do about extra digital discs? (John Streepy)
>>> 4. Re: classroom use of "home and community viewing" dvd
>>> (Dennis Doros)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: Vicki Nesting <vnestin@bellsouth.net>
>>> Subject: [Videolib] postcards - a plea for sanity
>>> To: videolib <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
>>> Message-ID: <438708.19421.qm@web83915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been cleaning my catalog shelves this week and want to make a
>>> plea to our video distributor friends on this list: don't rely on
>>> postcards or other loose paper mailings as a substitute for catalogs.
>>>
>>> I get many, many, many postcard announcements from video distributors
>>> about their latest offerings. I throw all the mail I receive about
>>> video products on a shelf. I do the same with the audio
>>> catalogs/mailings I receive. The catalogs are relatively easy to
>>> file
>>> (although everyone needs to put dates on the front so I can figure
>>> out
>>> which is the most current) but the postcards and loose paper?
>>> Impossible. On the other hand, I love the mailings I get from New
>>> Video
>>> because they are 8-1/2" x 11" and are hole-punched to go into a
>>> binder.
>>> They have dates on them so I can figure out what's current.
>>>
>>> When I go to order, I don't have the patience to dig through the
>>> piles
>>> of postcards and loose paper to see what your latest offerings
>>> are. So
>>> if they haven't been reviewed in Video Librarian, didn't appear on a
>>> "best" list, and all you sent me was a postcard or other loose paper
>>> mailing, chances are that I'm going to miss it.
>>>
>>> What is most useful to me when I'm ordering?
>>> * A positive review in Video Librarian
>>> * Appearance on a year-end "best" list (Notable Videos, Video
>>> Librarian, Booklist)
>>> * Something I had a chance to preview at National Media Market
>>> * Catalog or 8-1/2" x 11" hole punched cut sheets for new titles
>>> (and a
>>> binder to put them in!)
>>>
>>> And by the way, email is useful to let me know about sales or to
>>> send me
>>> pricing, but it's not the place I look when I sit down to do my
>>> ordering.
>>>
>>> Speaking for myself alone,
>>> Vicki
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> Vicki Nesting
>>> Assistant Director
>>> St. Charles Parish Library
>>> Luling, Louisiana
>>> vnestin@bellsouth.net
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:43:12 -0400
>>> From: Jesse Epstein <epstein.jesse@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] postcards - a plea for sanity
>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <15d50eeb0907290943r523f9fc1je9a6427fed5150c6@mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> As a filmmaker with New Day Films - getting ready to navigate
>>> distribution for the fall -- I want to thank you for this info!!!!
>>> Jesse
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Vicki Nesting
>>> <vnestin@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been cleaning my catalog shelves this week and want to make a
>>>> plea to our video distributor friends on this list: don't rely on
>>>> postcards or other loose paper mailings as a substitute for
>>>> catalogs.
>>>>
>>>> I get many, many, many postcard announcements from video
>>>> distributors
>>>> about their latest offerings. I throw all the mail I receive about
>>>> video products on a shelf. I do the same with the audio
>>>> catalogs/mailings I receive. The catalogs are relatively easy to
>>>> file
>>>
>>>> (although everyone needs to put dates on the front so I can figure
>>>> out
>>>
>>>> which is the most current) but the postcards and loose paper?
>>>> Impossible. On the other hand, I love the mailings I get from New
>>>> Video because they are 8-1/2" x 11" and are hole-punched to go
>>>> into a
>>>> binder. They have dates on them so I can figure out what's current.
>>>>
>>>> When I go to order, I don't have the patience to dig through the
>>>> piles
>>>
>>>> of postcards and loose paper to see what your latest offerings are.
>>>> So if they haven't been reviewed in Video Librarian, didn't appear
>>>> on
>>>> a "best" list, and all you sent me was a postcard or other loose
>>>> paper
>>>
>>>> mailing, chances are that I'm going to miss it.
>>>>
>>>> What is most useful to me when I'm ordering?
>>>> * A positive review in Video Librarian
>>>> * Appearance on a year-end "best" list (Notable Videos, Video
>>>> Librarian,
>>>> Booklist)
>>>> * Something I had a chance to preview at National Media Market
>>>> * Catalog or 8-1/2" x 11" hole punched cut sheets for new titles
>>>> (and
>>>
>>>> a binder to put them in!)
>>>>
>>>> And by the way, email is useful to let me know about sales or to
>>>> send
>>>> me pricing, but it's not the place I look when I sit down to do my
>>> ordering.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking for myself alone,
>>>> Vicki
>>>>
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> Vicki Nesting
>>>> Assistant Director
>>>> St. Charles Parish Library
>>>> Luling, Louisiana
>>>> vnestin@bellsouth.net
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>>> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
>>>> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
>>>> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
>>>> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
>>>> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>> distributors.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jesse Epstein
>>> Educational Films on Body Image
>>> http://www.JesseDocs.com>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment scrubbed and removed.
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:38:58 -0700
>>> From: John Streepy <John.Streepy@cwu.EDU>
>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] what to do about extra digital discs?
>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> Message-ID: <4A7018BD.1F8F.0042.1@gwmail.cwu.edu>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> would it be illegal to load the digital copy onto a computer at the
>>> library for use in house, and still check out the physical copy.
>>> This
>>> is a way of at least getting something of value out of what you
>>> perceive
>>> as an additional cost. Just curious.
>>> jhs
>>>
>>>
>>> John H. Streepy
>>> Media Services Supervisor
>>> Library-Media Circulation
>>> James E. Brooks Library
>>> Central Washington University
>>> 400 East University Way
>>> Ellensburg, WA 98926-7548
>>>
>>> (509) 963-2861
>>> http://www.lib.cwu.edu/media>>>
>>> "Hand to hand combat just goes with the territory.
>>> All part of being a librarian" -- James Turner "Rex Libris"
>>>
>>> Transitus profusum est nocens!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Danielle Phillips <danilphillips@gmail.com> 7/29/2009 8:41 AM >>>
>>> We use Baker and Taylor. This is mostly an issue with Blu-rays, but
>>> occasionally a DVD comes like this. I think you're right Winona. We
>>> can't very well prove that we're paying extra for this, even though
>>> I'm
>>> pretty sure we are. I think we'll probably go with just discarding
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Winona Patterson
>>> <wpatters@harpercollege.edu>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We haven?t discussed anything with our vendors specifically regarding
>>> being charged (or ?not charged?) for the digital copy of the movie.
>>> Like
>>> you said, it feels like we?re being charged for it, but is there
>>> really
>>> a way to prove it? And if we raise a fuss, I?m afraid something might
>>> happen along the lines of what Fox was trying to do earlier this year
>>> with forcing libraries to purchase only the no-frills versions of
>>> popular DVDs (which they quickly recanted).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As for what we do in-house once we receive the DVD with digital
>>> copy *
>>> we?re doing what Meghann and the University of Delaware are doing.
>>> Also,
>>> if a patron is savvy enough to know about the digital copies in the
>>> first place, they should also be savvy enough to know that the
>>> download
>>> is a one-time thing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Winona Patterson
>>>
>>> A/V Cataloger
>>> LRC Tech Services, Harper College
>>> 1200 W. Algonquin Rd., Palatine, IL 60067
>>> Direct Line 847-925-6770
>>>
>>>
>>> wpatters@harpercollege.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>> acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video
>>> formats in
>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>> serve
>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>>> channel
>>> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
>>> video
>>> producers and distributors.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Danielle Phillips
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:48:56 -0400
>>> From: Dennis Doros <milefilms@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community viewing"
>>> dvd
>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <2ad8b9eb0907290948t51fd97a3sfa48eecb497c61aa@mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>>
>>> Michael,
>>> Oh, wow, Michael. Absolutely agree about the techno end, but as to
>>> content,
>>> as Bugs Bunny would say, "He don't know me too well, do he?" Amy
>>> and I
>>> release films because we fall in love with them and have to share
>>> them.
>>> For
>>> us (and a lot of distributors are just like us), trying to acquire a
>>> movie
>>> because it will make money is like a hitter going up to the plate and
>>> trying
>>> to hit a home run. It can happen, but it usually decreases your
>>> chances.
>>> And
>>> it's a heck of a lot less fun if you're just in it for the bucks.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Brewer, Michael <
>>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dennis,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do think rights holders having more information on what is really
>>>> used/needed by various communities would help to spur them to create
>>> new
>>>> products or business models that could serve both groups. In the
>>>> case
>>> of
>>>> educational institutions using fair use, or even 110 or 108, this
>>>> information usually does not get to them, so they can?t make an
>>> informed
>>>> decision about whether or not to rerelease something, to develop a
>>> streaming
>>>> model, or rates for licensing, etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> mb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Brewer
>>>>
>>>> Team Leader for Undergraduate Services
>>>>
>>>> University of Arizona Library
>>>>
>>>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
>>>> videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Doros
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:48 PM
>>>> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community
>>> viewing"
>>>> dvd
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for taking the correction so kindly. We disagree, but to be
>>> honest,
>>>> what I'd really love is that there's a national fund, just like
>>> Australia
>>>> has, that would let colleges do whatever the hell they want on
>>> campuses and
>>>> students would have access to everything. Then colleges would be
>>> delighted
>>>> to report usage since it would be no extra cost. And then filmmakers
>>> and
>>>> rights holders would see decent-sized checks on a regular basis
>>>> rather
>>> than
>>>> have to invoice one film at a time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Come to think of it, this is what we should all be fighting for in
>>> congress rather
>>>> than trying to change copyright piecemeal. We even have a political
>>>> administration that is tech savvy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> D
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Brewer, Michael <
>>>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You are right. I misspoke about the word not being in the law. I
>>> regret
>>>> having sent my last email without thinking it through and being more
>>> clear.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I do still think that this wording does not mean that
>>>> only
>>> less
>>>> than the whole can be used. The court cases and practices I sited
>>> before
>>>> make it pretty clear that it can. My reading, and I assume the
>>>> reading
>>> of
>>>> the judges in those cases, is that "portion used in relation to the
>>> whole"
>>>> here is taken to mean "what percentage of the work is being used?"
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to know more about how judges have written about this in
>>> their
>>>> rulings. I'll snoop around a bit and see what I can come up with
>>>> and
>>> share
>>>> it with the list.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for keeping me honest!
>>>>
>>>> mb
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu [
>>>> videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Dennis Doros [
>>>> milefilms@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 5:43 PM
>>>>
>>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community
>>>> viewing"
>>> dvd
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Brewer, Michael <
>>>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu<mailto:brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> The law says nothing about it having to be a portion. There have
>>>> been
>>> a
>>>> number of fair use cases that have been upheld where an entire work
>>> was
>>>> used. It could be a portion or more than a portion (an entire
>>>> article,
>>> poem,
>>>> image, whatever).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Copyright Law Section 107
>>>>
>>>> * The purpose and character of the use, including whether such
>>> use is
>>>> of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
>>>> * The nature of the copyrighted work
>>>> * The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation
>>> to the
>>>> copyrighted work as a whole
>>>> * The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value
>>> of,
>>>> the copyrighted work
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best,
>>>> Dennis Doros
>>>> Milestone Film & Video
>>>> PO Box 128
>>>> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>>>> Phone: 201-767-3117
>>>> Fax: 201-767-3035
>>>>
>>>> email: milefilms@gmail.com<mailto:milefilms@gmail.com>
>>>> www.milestonefilms.com<http://www.milestonefilms.com>
>>>> www.arayafilm.com<http://www.arayafilm.com>
>>>> www.exilesfilm.com<http://www.exilesfilm.com>
>>>> www.killerofsheep.com<http://www.killerofsheep.com>
>>>> AMIA St. Louis 2009: www.amianet.org<http://www.amianet.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues
>>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control,
>>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>> libraries and
>>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>> effective
>>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> communication
>>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>>> distributors.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best,
>>>> Dennis Doros
>>>> Milestone Film & Video
>>>> PO Box 128
>>>> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>>>> Phone: 201-767-3117
>>>> Fax: 201-767-3035
>>>> email: milefilms@gmail.com
>>>> www.milestonefilms.com
>>>> www.arayafilm.com
>>>> www.exilesfilm.com
>>>> www.killerofsheep.com
>>>> AMIA St. Louis 2009: www.amianet.org
>>>>
>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues
>>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control,
>>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>> libraries and
>>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>> effective
>>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> communication
>>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>>> distributors.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best,
>>> Dennis Doros
>>> Milestone Film & Video
>>> PO Box 128
>>> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>>> Phone: 201-767-3117
>>> Fax: 201-767-3035
>>> email: milefilms@gmail.com
>>> www.milestonefilms.com
>>> www.arayafilm.com
>>> www.exilesfilm.com
>>> www.killerofsheep.com
>>> AMIA St. Louis 2009: www.amianet.org
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment scrubbed and removed.
>>> HTML attachments are only available in MIME digests.
>>>
>>> End of videolib Digest, Vol 20, Issue 95
>>> ****************************************
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues
>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control,
>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>> libraries
>>> and
>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>> effective
>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> communication
>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>> distributors.
>>>
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues
>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control,
>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>> libraries
>>> and
>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>> effective
>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> communication
>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>> distributors.
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>> acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video
>>> formats in
>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>> serve
>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>>> channel of
>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>> producers and distributors.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Gary Handman
>> Director
>> Media Resources Center
>> Moffitt Library
>> UC Berkeley
>>
>> 510-643-8566
>> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>>
>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
>> --Francois Truffaut
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:54:04 -0400
>> From: Jessica Rosner <maddux2014@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community viewing"
>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> Message-ID:
>> <55e0d0090907291254x69cba2afs931b7699cb26eb14@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I completely agree but am somewhat cynical that it will happen. You
>> have the
>> major studios who currently reject the use of CLIPS in anything
>> other than a
>> FILM class and the professors who basically feel any movie ever made
>> should
>> be available in any format they want because it sounds "fair ' to
>> them. In
>> between you have media librarians, filmmakers and independent
>> distributors ,
>> all of whom would like a genuinely "fair" system that makes sure
>> films are
>> affordable to institutions while rights holders can afford to stay in
>> business. I wish there were a magic ASCAP like solution but you are
>> dealing
>> with literallytens of thousands of different rights holders and
>> institutions.
>> Right now you have a situation where bluntly the law is pretty much
>> on the
>> side of rights holders. You may not like the DMCA or the actual legal
>> interpretation of "Fair Use " but it is there. Institutions are
>> being pushed
>> by faculty and students to pretty much just stream but do it " in
>> secret" (
>> with some interesting exceptions) so that Disney will not sue them for
>> streaming PULP FICTION. I don't know how this will end but right now
>> it
>> seems to my very cynical eye that small distributors are the ones
>> getting
>> killed by collateral damage. Once you decide "Fair Use " or TEACH
>> act lets
>> you stream PULP FICTION why should you pay to stream KILLER OF SHEEP,
>> METROPOLIS , NOWHERE IN AFRICA, XALA etc etc.
>>
>> Anyone got any bright ideas ?
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Scott Spicer <spic0016@umn.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jessica,
>>>
>>> As a multimedia librarian responsible for promoting video, images,
>>> and
>>> audio in teaching, I too have questioned why the dialogue around
>>> video
>>> in the academic library community appears to have a totally different
>>> tone than that of music (images appear to fall somewhere in the
>>> middle, e.g., ARTstor). How we discuss the application of fair use
>>> in
>>> this video community certainly must extend beyond film makers and
>>> rights holders holding on to the DMCA anti-circumvention technology
>>> exemption? I also agree with John, that we need to be very careful
>>> with respect to some of these licenses that dilute potential valid
>>> fair use applications. For example, though related to locally born
>>> digitized content, there was an article written in this months C&RL,
>>> "Unless Otherwise Indicated: A Survey of Copyright Statements on
>>> Digital Library Collections", that bemoaned the lack of quality, or
>>> any, fair use statements, suggesting "Libraries are sometimes
>>> reluctant to share anything but the most basic copyright information,
>>> out of fear that users will take it as legal advice, opening the
>>> library to unwanted risk." (383) What Schlosser failed to take into
>>> account was that despite assertions by publishers/producers/
>>> distributers, fortunately there is a lack of case law that
>>> establishes
>>> absolute use principles, and there is a need to make determinations
>>> on
>>> a case by case basis. It may seem laughable, but I could honestly
>>> envision a time where, because of restrictions, every view - every
>>> use
>>> is licensed pay-per view or disregard/sovereign immunity (for state
>>> schools) - still doesn't protect injunctive suits, however. This
>>> will
>>> only drive people further to online/creative commons resources, which
>>> is why media librarians should be leading in developing/implementing
>>> technology to better search, aggregate and display this content (and
>>> no deep linking is not illegal). But, that's a conversation for a
>>> different time.
>>>
>>> I am not against rights holders, we purchase a ton of content. But,
>>> when PBS tells me I have to spend several thousand dollars to even
>>> play ball in the streaming business, and a week later I get an e-mail
>>> touting free streaming content from our local affiliate, I am
>>> inclined
>>> to say "take a hike" or at least let's slow down. This cherry
>>> picking
>>> is not sustainable.
>>>
>>> -Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott Spicer
>>> Media Outreach and Learning Spaces Librarian
>>> Coordinated Educational Services
>>> University of Minnesota Libraries
>>> 233 Walter Library 612.626.0629
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 29, 2009, at 12:49 PM, videolib-request@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Send videolib mailing list submissions to
>>>> videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>
>>> https://calmail.berkeley.edu/manage/list/listinfo/videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>>>>
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> videolib-request@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> videolib-owner@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of videolib digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: classroom use of "home and community viewing" (Jessica
>>>> Rosner)
>>>> 2. Re: videolib Digest, Vol 20, Issue 95 (Lawrence Daressa)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:47:03 -0400
>>>> From: Jessica Rosner <maddux2014@gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community
>>>> viewing"
>>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <55e0d0090907291047g57b85679j472b6314b8a238f1@mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>>>
>>>> Seriously Gary. You now believe it is "fair use' to stream an entire
>>>> film ?
>>>> If it were legal to claim "Fair Use " to copy an entire work why the
>>>> heck
>>>> buy more than one copy of a book for class just make copies and
>>>> claim "fair
>>>> use" Why not stream the books too ? The ONLY case in the history of
>>>> copyright that allowed "Fair Use' for an ENTIRE long work which was
>>>> the Sony
>>>> Case 25 years ago and for HOME USE ONLY. The ENTIRE history of "Fair
>>>> Use "
>>>> is that it allows you to use a portion of a copyrighted work to
>>>> create a
>>>> new work ( lecture,article book). In the case where the whole work
>>>> is small
>>>> by itself it is possible to use it as part of another work but
>>>> "Fair Use"
>>>> as a defense against using a whole work just because basically you
>>>> don't
>>>> want to spend the money to either buy more copies or license it for
>>>> streaming is not remotely the same. As recently as Monday a judge
>>>> ruled
>>>> against "Fair Use" as a defense for a student sharing downloads. He
>>>> was not
>>>> profiting from it but "Fairs Use" is not a cuddly phrase to help
>>>> colleges
>>>> save money because something is being used for education.It has a
>>>> VERY
>>>> specific legal history that it is meant to allow people to use
>>>> otherwise
>>>> copyrighted works to create new works.This is kind of critical issue
>>>> which
>>>> is why I am so vocal. Kind of sensitive since this was at least part
>>>> of the
>>>> reason I lost my job. I assume folks have been following the Georgia
>>>> State
>>>> case which is almost directly on point. Georgia State argued that
>>>> "fair use"
>>>> covered entire works and put a bunch of written works
>>>> up on their web site for classroom use. They were sued by a group of
>>>> small
>>>> publishers. They have now backed down but the fight is now over if
>>>> the
>>>> publishers can get DAMAGES for the previous violation. Do to
>>>> "sovereign
>>>> immunity" ( being a state school) the answer appears not but the
>>>> publishers
>>>> are still pushing for a judgement on this.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>> is it now your opinion that "Fair Use" would allow you to stream any
>>>> item in the library for a course ? That certainly would be a change.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:31 PM, <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Brilliant, John
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, these discussions don't generally tend to denigrate or
>>>>> downplay fair use--Jessica does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with Michael, and so do a lot of other people/orgs. Fair
>>>>>> Use's 3rd factor does not need to be satisfied in order for a
>>>>>> use to
>>>>>> be considered fair under the law. Music librarians have been
>>>>>> providing access to complete works via streaming reserves for
>>>>>> years:
>>>>>> see MLA's Statement on the Digital Transmission of Electronic
>>>>>> Reserves - http://bit.ly/ABppj - "Digital copies may be made of
>>>>>> whole
>>>>>> movements or whole works."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a more general statement see ARL's "Applying Fair Use in the
>>>>>> Development of Electronic Reserves Systems" - http://bit.ly/>>>>>> 37LrEr -
>>>>>> "Because the amount that a faculty member assigns depends on many
>>>>>> factors, such as relevance to the teaching objective and the
>>>>>> overall
>>>>>> amount of material assigned, librarians may also consider whether
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> amount, even the entire work, is appropriate to support the lesson
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> make the point. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the publisher's side of the discussion, AAP, AAU, & AAUP
>>>>>> conceded
>>>>>> that displaying whole works within the context of teaching/
>>>>>> research
>>>>>> oriented campus settings may be fair use: see Campus Copyright
>>>>>> Rights
>>>>>> and Responsibilities - http://bit.ly/3i8Y8P - "The larger the
>>>>>> portion
>>>>>> of a work used, the less likely it is to be fair use, although in
>>>>>> appropriate circumstances (e.g., research, classroom display or
>>>>>> distribution, parody) use of an entire work ... may be a fair
>>>>>> use."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, see Harvard's "Copyright and Fair Use: A Guide for the
>>>>>> Harvard Community" - http://bit.ly/cJFDH - "Also important in
>>>>>> applying the third factor is the nexus between the purpose of the
>>>>>> fair use and the portion of the copyrighted work taken. The extent
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> permissible copying varies with the purpose and character of the
>>>>>> use.
>>>>>> Taking more of the copyrighted work than is necessary to
>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>> the fair user?s salutary purpose will weigh against fair use. In
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> cases, the fact that the entire work?for example, an image?was
>>>>>> needed
>>>>>> to accomplish the fair use purpose has led the court to hold that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> third factor was neutral, favoring neither the copyright holder
>>>>>> nor
>>>>>> the putative fair user."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By dismissing Fair Use in favor of (for example) purchasing
>>>>>> blanket
>>>>>> PPR licenses for classroom streaming, librarians are further
>>>>>> eroding
>>>>>> section 107. I don't know why these Videolib discussions tend to
>>>>>> dismiss Fair Use (unlike similar discussions on the Music Library
>>>>>> Association list). Is it the presence of industry reps on the
>>>>>> list?
>>>>>> Is it the video librarian's commuinty early adoption of CONFU?
>>>>>> Whatever the case, it's has a chilling and disorienting effect on
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> understanding of the issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>> _________
>>>>>> John Vallier
>>>>>> Head, Distributed Media Services
>>>>>> University of Washington Libraries
>>>>>> vallier@uw.edu | tel. 206-616-1210
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Brewer, Michael <
>>>>>>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> That said, I do still think that this wording does not mean that
>>>>>>>> only less
>>>>>>>> than the whole can be used. The court cases and practices I
>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>> make it pretty clear that it can. My reading, and I assume the
>>>>>>>> reading of
>>>>>>>> the judges in those cases, is that "portion used in relation to
>>>>>>>> the whole"
>>>>>>>> here is taken to mean "what percentage of the work is being
>>>>>>>> used?"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like to know more about how judges have written about this
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> rulings. I'll snoop around a bit and see what I can come up
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> and share
>>>>>>>> it with the list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for keeping me honest!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mb
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively
>>>>>> discussion of
>>>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>>>>> acquisition,bibliographic
>>>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video
>>>>>> formats in
>>>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>>>>> serve
>>>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>>>>>> channel
>>>>> of
>>>>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
>>>>>> video
>>>>>> producers and distributors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary Handman
>>>>> Director
>>>>> Media Resources Center
>>>>> Moffitt Library
>>>>> UC Berkeley
>>>>>
>>>>> 510-643-8566
>>>>> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>>>>>
>>>>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
>>>>> --Francois Truffaut
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
>>>>> of issues
>>>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>>>> control,
>>>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>>>> libraries and
>>>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>>>> effective
>>>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>>>> communication
>>>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>>>> distributors.
>>>>>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>> An HTML attachment scrubbed and removed.
>>>> HTML attachments are only available in MIME digests.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:40:20 -0700
>>>> From: "Lawrence Daressa" <LD@newsreel.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] videolib Digest, Vol 20, Issue 95
>>>> To: <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <3F0DD4194F8AF248898A239182DACD47F466EB@seneca.newsreel.local>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>
>>>> Re: classroom use of "home and community viewing" DVDs
>>>>
>>>> With regard to the availability of titles on Amazon, California
>>>> Newsreel
>>>> will experiment with offering ten titles for digital rental and/or
>>>> sale
>>>> starting September 1 on Amazon. Some instructors with depleted
>>>> acquisition budgets have requested that we make our films directly
>>>> available to students for a $2.99 rental. We are eager to see how
>>>> useful this option proves and whether it has a long-term impact on
>>>> institutional DVD sales and streaming licenses. It is possible that
>>>> for
>>>> some titles individual student rental could eventually generate more
>>>> revenue for producers than institutional sales. Since both options
>>>> are
>>>> available, Newsreel is leaving it up to the instructor to determine
>>>> the
>>>> ethical implications of passing on these costs.
>>>>
>>>> With regard to the licensing of home use DVDs, Newsreel endeavours
>>>> to
>>>> make as transparent as possible any contractual restrictions and DRM
>>>> which may apply to any DVD at our point-of-sale. Unfortunately, we
>>>> can't
>>>> insure that such notices appear at points-of-sale outside our
>>>> control
>>>> but we can require these sellers to refund the cost of any DVD sold
>>>> to a
>>>> university or individual without making the terms and conditions of
>>>> use
>>>> explicit nor would those terms and conditions be in any way binding.
>>>>
>>>> Larry Daressa.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> [mailto:videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
>>>> videolib-request@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:49 AM
>>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> Subject: videolib Digest, Vol 20, Issue 95
>>>>
>>>> Send videolib mailing list submissions to
>>>> videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>
>>>> https://calmail.berkeley.edu/manage/list/listinfo/videolib@lists.berkele>>>> y.edu
>>>>
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> videolib-request@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> videolib-owner@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than
>>>> "Re: Contents of videolib digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. postcards - a plea for sanity (Vicki Nesting)
>>>> 2. Re: postcards - a plea for sanity (Jesse Epstein)
>>>> 3. Re: what to do about extra digital discs? (John Streepy)
>>>> 4. Re: classroom use of "home and community viewing" dvd
>>>> (Dennis Doros)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> From: Vicki Nesting <vnestin@bellsouth.net>
>>>> Subject: [Videolib] postcards - a plea for sanity
>>>> To: videolib <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
>>>> Message-ID: <438708.19421.qm@web83915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been cleaning my catalog shelves this week and want to make a
>>>> plea to our video distributor friends on this list: don't rely on
>>>> postcards or other loose paper mailings as a substitute for
>>>> catalogs.
>>>>
>>>> I get many, many, many postcard announcements from video
>>>> distributors
>>>> about their latest offerings. I throw all the mail I receive about
>>>> video products on a shelf. I do the same with the audio
>>>> catalogs/mailings I receive. The catalogs are relatively easy to
>>>> file
>>>> (although everyone needs to put dates on the front so I can figure
>>>> out
>>>> which is the most current) but the postcards and loose paper?
>>>> Impossible. On the other hand, I love the mailings I get from New
>>>> Video
>>>> because they are 8-1/2" x 11" and are hole-punched to go into a
>>>> binder.
>>>> They have dates on them so I can figure out what's current.
>>>>
>>>> When I go to order, I don't have the patience to dig through the
>>>> piles
>>>> of postcards and loose paper to see what your latest offerings are.
>>>> So
>>>> if they haven't been reviewed in Video Librarian, didn't appear on a
>>>> "best" list, and all you sent me was a postcard or other loose paper
>>>> mailing, chances are that I'm going to miss it.
>>>>
>>>> What is most useful to me when I'm ordering?
>>>> * A positive review in Video Librarian
>>>> * Appearance on a year-end "best" list (Notable Videos, Video
>>>> Librarian, Booklist)
>>>> * Something I had a chance to preview at National Media Market
>>>> * Catalog or 8-1/2" x 11" hole punched cut sheets for new titles
>>>> (and a
>>>> binder to put them in!)
>>>>
>>>> And by the way, email is useful to let me know about sales or to
>>>> send me
>>>> pricing, but it's not the place I look when I sit down to do my
>>>> ordering.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking for myself alone,
>>>> Vicki
>>>>
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> Vicki Nesting
>>>> Assistant Director
>>>> St. Charles Parish Library
>>>> Luling, Louisiana
>>>> vnestin@bellsouth.net
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:43:12 -0400
>>>> From: Jesse Epstein <epstein.jesse@gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] postcards - a plea for sanity
>>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <15d50eeb0907290943r523f9fc1je9a6427fed5150c6@mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>
>>>> As a filmmaker with New Day Films - getting ready to navigate
>>>> distribution for the fall -- I want to thank you for this info!!!!
>>>> Jesse
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Vicki Nesting
>>>> <vnestin@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been cleaning my catalog shelves this week and want to
>>>>> make a
>>>>> plea to our video distributor friends on this list: don't rely on
>>>>> postcards or other loose paper mailings as a substitute for
>>>>> catalogs.
>>>>>
>>>>> I get many, many, many postcard announcements from video
>>>>> distributors
>>>>> about their latest offerings. I throw all the mail I receive about
>>>>> video products on a shelf. I do the same with the audio
>>>>> catalogs/mailings I receive. The catalogs are relatively easy to
>>>>> file
>>>>
>>>>> (although everyone needs to put dates on the front so I can figure
>>>>> out
>>>>
>>>>> which is the most current) but the postcards and loose paper?
>>>>> Impossible. On the other hand, I love the mailings I get from New
>>>>> Video because they are 8-1/2" x 11" and are hole-punched to go
>>>>> into a
>>>>> binder. They have dates on them so I can figure out what's
>>>>> current.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I go to order, I don't have the patience to dig through the
>>>>> piles
>>>>
>>>>> of postcards and loose paper to see what your latest offerings are.
>>>>> So if they haven't been reviewed in Video Librarian, didn't
>>>>> appear on
>>>>> a "best" list, and all you sent me was a postcard or other loose
>>>>> paper
>>>>
>>>>> mailing, chances are that I'm going to miss it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is most useful to me when I'm ordering?
>>>>> * A positive review in Video Librarian
>>>>> * Appearance on a year-end "best" list (Notable Videos, Video
>>>>> Librarian,
>>>>> Booklist)
>>>>> * Something I had a chance to preview at National Media Market
>>>>> * Catalog or 8-1/2" x 11" hole punched cut sheets for new titles
>>>>> (and
>>>>
>>>>> a binder to put them in!)
>>>>>
>>>>> And by the way, email is useful to let me know about sales or to
>>>>> send
>>>>> me pricing, but it's not the place I look when I sit down to do my
>>>> ordering.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking for myself alone,
>>>>> Vicki
>>>>>
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>> Vicki Nesting
>>>>> Assistant Director
>>>>> St. Charles Parish Library
>>>>> Luling, Louisiana
>>>>> vnestin@bellsouth.net
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
>>>>> of
>>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>>>> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
>>>>> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions.
>>>>> It
>>>>> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
>>>>> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
>>>>> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>>> distributors.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jesse Epstein
>>>> Educational Films on Body Image
>>>> http://www.JesseDocs.com>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>> An HTML attachment scrubbed and removed.
>>>> HTML attachments are only available in MIME digests.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:38:58 -0700
>>>> From: John Streepy <John.Streepy@cwu.EDU>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] what to do about extra digital discs?
>>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> Message-ID: <4A7018BD.1F8F.0042.1@gwmail.cwu.edu>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> would it be illegal to load the digital copy onto a computer at the
>>>> library for use in house, and still check out the physical copy.
>>>> This
>>>> is a way of at least getting something of value out of what you
>>>> perceive
>>>> as an additional cost. Just curious.
>>>> jhs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John H. Streepy
>>>> Media Services Supervisor
>>>> Library-Media Circulation
>>>> James E. Brooks Library
>>>> Central Washington University
>>>> 400 East University Way
>>>> Ellensburg, WA 98926-7548
>>>>
>>>> (509) 963-2861
>>>> http://www.lib.cwu.edu/media>>>>
>>>> "Hand to hand combat just goes with the territory.
>>>> All part of being a librarian" -- James Turner "Rex Libris"
>>>>
>>>> Transitus profusum est nocens!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Danielle Phillips <danilphillips@gmail.com> 7/29/2009 8:41 AM >>>
>>>> We use Baker and Taylor. This is mostly an issue with Blu-rays, but
>>>> occasionally a DVD comes like this. I think you're right Winona. We
>>>> can't very well prove that we're paying extra for this, even though
>>>> I'm
>>>> pretty sure we are. I think we'll probably go with just discarding
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Winona Patterson
>>>> <wpatters@harpercollege.edu>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We haven?t discussed anything with our vendors specifically
>>>> regarding
>>>> being charged (or ?not charged?) for the digital copy of the movie.
>>>> Like
>>>> you said, it feels like we?re being charged for it, but is there
>>>> really
>>>> a way to prove it? And if we raise a fuss, I?m afraid something
>>>> might
>>>> happen along the lines of what Fox was trying to do earlier this
>>>> year
>>>> with forcing libraries to purchase only the no-frills versions of
>>>> popular DVDs (which they quickly recanted).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As for what we do in-house once we receive the DVD with digital
>>>> copy *
>>>> we?re doing what Meghann and the University of Delaware are doing.
>>>> Also,
>>>> if a patron is savvy enough to know about the digital copies in the
>>>> first place, they should also be savvy enough to know that the
>>>> download
>>>> is a one-time thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Winona Patterson
>>>>
>>>> A/V Cataloger
>>>> LRC Tech Services, Harper College
>>>> 1200 W. Algonquin Rd., Palatine, IL 60067
>>>> Direct Line 847-925-6770
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> wpatters@harpercollege.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>>> acquisition,bibliographic
>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
>>>> in
>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>>> serve
>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>>>> channel
>>>> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
>>>> video
>>>> producers and distributors.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Danielle Phillips
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>> An HTML attachment scrubbed and removed.
>>>> HTML attachments are only available in MIME digests.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:48:56 -0400
>>>> From: Dennis Doros <milefilms@gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community
>>>> viewing"
>>>> dvd
>>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <2ad8b9eb0907290948t51fd97a3sfa48eecb497c61aa@mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>>>
>>>> Michael,
>>>> Oh, wow, Michael. Absolutely agree about the techno end, but as to
>>>> content,
>>>> as Bugs Bunny would say, "He don't know me too well, do he?" Amy
>>>> and I
>>>> release films because we fall in love with them and have to share
>>>> them.
>>>> For
>>>> us (and a lot of distributors are just like us), trying to acquire a
>>>> movie
>>>> because it will make money is like a hitter going up to the plate
>>>> and
>>>> trying
>>>> to hit a home run. It can happen, but it usually decreases your
>>>> chances.
>>>> And
>>>> it's a heck of a lot less fun if you're just in it for the bucks.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Brewer, Michael <
>>>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dennis,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I do think rights holders having more information on what is really
>>>>> used/needed by various communities would help to spur them to
>>>>> create
>>>> new
>>>>> products or business models that could serve both groups. In the
>>>>> case
>>>> of
>>>>> educational institutions using fair use, or even 110 or 108, this
>>>>> information usually does not get to them, so they can?t make an
>>>> informed
>>>>> decision about whether or not to rerelease something, to develop a
>>>> streaming
>>>>> model, or rates for licensing, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> mb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brewer
>>>>>
>>>>> Team Leader for Undergraduate Services
>>>>>
>>>>> University of Arizona Library
>>>>>
>>>>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
>>>>> videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Doros
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:48 PM
>>>>> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community
>>>> viewing"
>>>>> dvd
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for taking the correction so kindly. We disagree, but to be
>>>> honest,
>>>>> what I'd really love is that there's a national fund, just like
>>>> Australia
>>>>> has, that would let colleges do whatever the hell they want on
>>>> campuses and
>>>>> students would have access to everything. Then colleges would be
>>>> delighted
>>>>> to report usage since it would be no extra cost. And then
>>>>> filmmakers
>>>> and
>>>>> rights holders would see decent-sized checks on a regular basis
>>>>> rather
>>>> than
>>>>> have to invoice one film at a time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Come to think of it, this is what we should all be fighting for in
>>>> congress rather
>>>>> than trying to change copyright piecemeal. We even have a political
>>>>> administration that is tech savvy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> D
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Brewer, Michael <
>>>>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You are right. I misspoke about the word not being in the law. I
>>>> regret
>>>>> having sent my last email without thinking it through and being
>>>>> more
>>>> clear.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I do still think that this wording does not mean that
>>>>> only
>>>> less
>>>>> than the whole can be used. The court cases and practices I sited
>>>> before
>>>>> make it pretty clear that it can. My reading, and I assume the
>>>>> reading
>>>> of
>>>>> the judges in those cases, is that "portion used in relation to the
>>>> whole"
>>>>> here is taken to mean "what percentage of the work is being used?"
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to know more about how judges have written about this in
>>>> their
>>>>> rulings. I'll snoop around a bit and see what I can come up with
>>>>> and
>>>> share
>>>>> it with the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for keeping me honest!
>>>>>
>>>>> mb
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu [
>>>>> videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Dennis Doros [
>>>>> milefilms@gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 5:43 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community
>>>>> viewing"
>>>> dvd
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Brewer, Michael <
>>>>> brewerm
>>>>> @u.library.arizona.edu<mailto:brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> The law says nothing about it having to be a portion. There have
>>>>> been
>>>> a
>>>>> number of fair use cases that have been upheld where an entire work
>>>> was
>>>>> used. It could be a portion or more than a portion (an entire
>>>>> article,
>>>> poem,
>>>>> image, whatever).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Copyright Law Section 107
>>>>>
>>>>> * The purpose and character of the use, including whether such
>>>> use is
>>>>> of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
>>>>> * The nature of the copyrighted work
>>>>> * The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation
>>>> to the
>>>>> copyrighted work as a whole
>>>>> * The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value
>>>> of,
>>>>> the copyrighted work
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Dennis Doros
>>>>> Milestone Film & Video
>>>>> PO Box 128
>>>>> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>>>>> Phone: 201-767-3117
>>>>> Fax: 201-767-3035
>>>>>
>>>>> email: milefilms@gmail.com<mailto:milefilms@gmail.com>
>>>>> www.milestonefilms.com<http://www.milestonefilms.com>
>>>>> www.arayafilm.com<http://www.arayafilm.com>
>>>>> www.exilesfilm.com<http://www.exilesfilm.com>
>>>>> www.killerofsheep.com<http://www.killerofsheep.com>
>>>>> AMIA St. Louis 2009: www.amianet.org<http://www.amianet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
>>>>> of
>>>> issues
>>>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>>> control,
>>>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>>> libraries and
>>>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>>> effective
>>>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>>> communication
>>>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>>>> distributors.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Dennis Doros
>>>>> Milestone Film & Video
>>>>> PO Box 128
>>>>> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>>>>> Phone: 201-767-3117
>>>>> Fax: 201-767-3035
>>>>> email: milefilms@gmail.com
>>>>> www.milestonefilms.com
>>>>> www.arayafilm.com
>>>>> www.exilesfilm.com
>>>>> www.killerofsheep.com
>>>>> AMIA St. Louis 2009: www.amianet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
>>>>> of
>>>> issues
>>>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>>> control,
>>>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>>> libraries and
>>>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>>> effective
>>>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>>> communication
>>>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>>>> distributors.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best,
>>>> Dennis Doros
>>>> Milestone Film & Video
>>>> PO Box 128
>>>> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>>>> Phone: 201-767-3117
>>>> Fax: 201-767-3035
>>>> email: milefilms@gmail.com
>>>> www.milestonefilms.com
>>>> www.arayafilm.com
>>>> www.exilesfilm.com
>>>> www.killerofsheep.com
>>>> AMIA St. Louis 2009: www.amianet.org
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>> An HTML attachment scrubbed and removed.
>>>> HTML attachments are only available in MIME digests.
>>>>
>>>> End of videolib Digest, Vol 20, Issue 95
>>>> ****************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> End of videolib Digest, Vol 20, Issue 99
>>>> ****************************************
>>>
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
>>> of issues
>>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control,
>>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>> libraries and
>>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>> effective
>>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> communication
>>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>> distributors.
>>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment scrubbed and removed.
>> HTML attachments are only available in MIME digests.
>>
>> End of videolib Digest, Vol 20, Issue 105
>> *****************************************
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>

"I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
--Francois Truffaut

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Received on Wed Jul 29 13:52:55 2009