History shows the Labour Party has used this tactic before as well. But as far as Tax Credits is concerned, I disagree with them on this, it is agreed by both parties that the Benefit bill needs cutting, but not on Tax Credits.

Over 75's I know confirm that the "Providing same-day GP appointments for over 75s" is definitely not happening at the moment. Not in Chester, anyway.

Not directly mentioned in the Pledges, but Tory cuts to Flood Defence spending to save millions is costing us billions. You only have to look at the news to see the effect it's having. Austerity gone mad.

Over 75's I know confirm that the "Providing same-day GP appointments for over 75s" is definitely not happening at the moment. Not in Chester, anyway.

Not directly mentioned in the Pledges, but Tory cuts to Flood Defence spending to save millions is costing us billions. You only have to look at the news to see the effect it's having. Austerity gone mad.

These vile scum that executed 5 (very likely innocent of spying) people over the weekend did say something that resonates with me, viz Cameron is an imbecile.

Cameron's legacy for me is that he lead us into a referendum having only planned for one of the two outcomes. When he failed to persuade the public to vote the way he wanted it to, he gave up. That's highly irresponsible and, for that reason, I don't think he can ever claim that he had the country's best interests at heart.

Cameron's legacy for me is that he lead us into a referendum having only planned for one of the two outcomes. When he failed to persuade the public to vote the way he wanted it to, he gave up. That's highly irresponsible and, for that reason, I don't think he can ever claim that he had the country's best interests at heart.

The trouble is, that is so easy to blame David Cameron for holding the referendum, there was pressure from both sides for him to hold it, he said he would, and he did.What still doesn't seem to get through is, that Labour voters voted out as well, and from strong Labour heartlands.David Cameron realises that as a former "Remainer" it's untenable that he could possibly sit on the back benches he was always going to be a distraction to PM May.At least our party's leader knows when to go, unlike another party leader who doesn't, even his own MPs don't want him!

Cameron's legacy for me is that he lead us into a referendum having only planned for one of the two outcomes. When he failed to persuade the public to vote the way he wanted it to, he gave up. That's highly irresponsible and, for that reason, I don't think he can ever claim that he had the country's best interests at heart.

The trouble is, that is so easy to blame David Cameron for holding the referendum, there was pressure from both sides for him to hold it, he said he would, and he did.What still doesn't seem to get through is, that Labour voters voted out as well, and from strong Labour heartlands.David Cameron realises that as a former "Remainer" it's untenable that he could possibly sit on the back benches he was always going to be a distraction to PM May.At least our party's leader knows when to go, unlike another party leader who doesn't, even his own MPs don't want him!

But his members do, isn't that more important, and shouldn't the MPs be listening to them rather than rocking the boat?

My argument wasn't about which party wanted what, or who voted to stay or go, but simply that if you introduce a referendum, the responsible thing to do is to have a plan in place for either outcome. He didn't do that.

Although in fairness it is far better to do that than what Gordon Brown did when he spent 5 years after losing the 2010 election and carrying on as an MP but hardly ever bothering to turn up in parliament to do the job he was still being paid very well for.

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"The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life"Bill Shankly

Agree with XWWB. Downing Street had absolutely NO plan for a Leave vote and the likes of May have been left to deal with it all. Even now, almost three months later, there is still no plan in place other than this ridiculous "Brexit means Brexit" slogan. "Yeah, but what does that mean?" "Just... Brexit." Nobody has a plan and that is absolutely criminal. May has three key Leave campaigners in positions of authority in this and the party still can't confirm exactly what they are going to do.

As for JC, his party members want to keep him - his mandate is enormous - therefore his MPs should suck it up and get on with it.

Cameron's legacy for me is that he lead us into a referendum having only planned for one of the two outcomes. When he failed to persuade the public to vote the way he wanted it to, he gave up. That's highly irresponsible and, for that reason, I don't think he can ever claim that he had the country's best interests at heart.

The trouble is, that is so easy to blame David Cameron for holding the referendum, there was pressure from both sides for him to hold it, he said he would, and he did.What still doesn't seem to get through is, that Labour voters voted out as well, and from strong Labour heartlands.David Cameron realises that as a former "Remainer" it's untenable that he could possibly sit on the back benches he was always going to be a distraction to PM May.At least our party's leader knows when to go, unlike another party leader who doesn't, even his own MPs don't want him!

But his members do, isn't that more important, and shouldn't the MPs be listening to them rather than rocking the boat?

My argument wasn't about which party wanted what, or who voted to stay or go, but simply that if you introduce a referendum, the responsible thing to do is to have a plan in place for either outcome. He didn't do that.

I'm afraid it's the old story, the polls, even after the ballot boxes were closed, the "remainders" were convinced that they had won. It was a classic, the politicians of both sides misread the mood of the country, and didn't listen to the people on the doorstep, and that's what cost the Brexit.As far as opinion polls are concerned, it's saying that Labour are miles behind in the polls, perhaps they have got that wrong to?

Cameron's legacy for me is that he lead us into a referendum having only planned for one of the two outcomes. When he failed to persuade the public to vote the way he wanted it to, he gave up. That's highly irresponsible and, for that reason, I don't think he can ever claim that he had the country's best interests at heart.

The trouble is, that is so easy to blame David Cameron for holding the referendum, there was pressure from both sides for him to hold it, he said he would, and he did.What still doesn't seem to get through is, that Labour voters voted out as well, and from strong Labour heartlands.David Cameron realises that as a former "Remainer" it's untenable that he could possibly sit on the back benches he was always going to be a distraction to PM May.At least our party's leader knows when to go, unlike another party leader who doesn't, even his own MPs don't want him!

But his members do, isn't that more important, and shouldn't the MPs be listening to them rather than rocking the boat?

My argument wasn't about which party wanted what, or who voted to stay or go, but simply that if you introduce a referendum, the responsible thing to do is to have a plan in place for either outcome. He didn't do that.

I'm afraid it's the old story, the polls, even after the ballot boxes were closed, the "remainders" were convinced that they had won. It was a classic, the politicians of both sides misread the mood of the country, and didn't listen to the people on the doorstep, and that's what cost the Brexit.As far as opinion polls are concerned, it's saying that Labour are miles behind in the polls, perhaps they have got that wrong to?

I think you're still ignoring my point, Chris. This isn't a Leave/Remain argument about who misjudged what, who didn't listen to who, etc, it's an argument about how to responsibly hold a referendum. Let's put aside the fact that you think we were right to leave and I thought we should've remained, as we've gone over this many times and we're not going to change each other's minds!

The point I'm making is that Cameron should not have given the public the opportunity to vote on something without having plans in place for BOTH outcomes. To do that and then leave when it didn't turn out the way he wanted it to is weak and selfish leadership in my view.

Cameron's legacy for me is that he lead us into a referendum having only planned for one of the two outcomes. When he failed to persuade the public to vote the way he wanted it to, he gave up. That's highly irresponsible and, for that reason, I don't think he can ever claim that he had the country's best interests at heart.

The trouble is, that is so easy to blame David Cameron for holding the referendum, there was pressure from both sides for him to hold it, he said he would, and he did.What still doesn't seem to get through is, that Labour voters voted out as well, and from strong Labour heartlands.David Cameron realises that as a former "Remainer" it's untenable that he could possibly sit on the back benches he was always going to be a distraction to PM May.At least our party's leader knows when to go, unlike another party leader who doesn't, even his own MPs don't want him!

But his members do, isn't that more important, and shouldn't the MPs be listening to them rather than rocking the boat?

My argument wasn't about which party wanted what, or who voted to stay or go, but simply that if you introduce a referendum, the responsible thing to do is to have a plan in place for either outcome. He didn't do that.

I'm afraid it's the old story, the polls, even after the ballot boxes were closed, the "remainders" were convinced that they had won. It was a classic, the politicians of both sides misread the mood of the country, and didn't listen to the people on the doorstep, and that's what cost the Brexit.As far as opinion polls are concerned, it's saying that Labour are miles behind in the polls, perhaps they have got that wrong to?

I think you're still ignoring my point, Chris. This isn't a Leave/Remain argument about who misjudged what, who didn't listen to who, etc, it's an argument about how to responsibly hold a referendum. Let's put aside the fact that you think we were right to leave and I thought we should've remained, as we've gone over this many times and we're not going to change each other's minds!

The point I'm making is that Cameron should not have given the public the opportunity to vote on something without having plans in place for BOTH outcomes. To do that and then leave when it didn't turn out the way he wanted it to is weak and selfish leadership in my view.

I understand exactly what you are saying, I was trying to explain my opinion in why people voted out. But I do take your final point, I think basically he never thought the vote would go against him!I think he just wouldn't plan for Brexit because he genuinely didn't think it would happen!The best thing to come out of this is, that the UK people spoke, because they were literally ignored by both parties about their concerns, I think it will be a brave government who holds another referendum!

Group: DC Members
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Member No.: 850

QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Sep 14 2016, 10:44 PM)

QUOTE (XWWB @ Sep 14 2016, 12:21 PM)

QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Sep 13 2016, 01:07 PM)

QUOTE (XWWB @ Sep 13 2016, 07:40 AM)

QUOTE (Neil Fishers Biggest Fan @ Sep 13 2016, 12:35 AM)

QUOTE (XWWB @ Sep 12 2016, 10:51 PM)

Cameron's legacy for me is that he lead us into a referendum having only planned for one of the two outcomes. When he failed to persuade the public to vote the way he wanted it to, he gave up. That's highly irresponsible and, for that reason, I don't think he can ever claim that he had the country's best interests at heart.

The trouble is, that is so easy to blame David Cameron for holding the referendum, there was pressure from both sides for him to hold it, he said he would, and he did.What still doesn't seem to get through is, that Labour voters voted out as well, and from strong Labour heartlands.David Cameron realises that as a former "Remainer" it's untenable that he could possibly sit on the back benches he was always going to be a distraction to PM May.At least our party's leader knows when to go, unlike another party leader who doesn't, even his own MPs don't want him!

But his members do, isn't that more important, and shouldn't the MPs be listening to them rather than rocking the boat?

My argument wasn't about which party wanted what, or who voted to stay or go, but simply that if you introduce a referendum, the responsible thing to do is to have a plan in place for either outcome. He didn't do that.

I'm afraid it's the old story, the polls, even after the ballot boxes were closed, the "remainders" were convinced that they had won. It was a classic, the politicians of both sides misread the mood of the country, and didn't listen to the people on the doorstep, and that's what cost the Brexit.As far as opinion polls are concerned, it's saying that Labour are miles behind in the polls, perhaps they have got that wrong to?

I think you're still ignoring my point, Chris. This isn't a Leave/Remain argument about who misjudged what, who didn't listen to who, etc, it's an argument about how to responsibly hold a referendum. Let's put aside the fact that you think we were right to leave and I thought we should've remained, as we've gone over this many times and we're not going to change each other's minds!

The point I'm making is that Cameron should not have given the public the opportunity to vote on something without having plans in place for BOTH outcomes. To do that and then leave when it didn't turn out the way he wanted it to is weak and selfish leadership in my view.

I understand exactly what you are saying, I was trying to explain my opinion in why people voted out. But I do take your final point, I think basically he never thought the vote would go against him!I think he just wouldn't plan for Brexit because he genuinely didn't think it would happen!The best thing to come out of this is, that the UK people spoke, because they were literally ignored by both parties about their concerns, I think it will be a brave government who holds another referendum!

Cameron held the referendum because he was absolutely convinced the country would vote remain, the mess that this will leave behind may not be felt for quite a while, but democracy was offered and the country spoke.I know a lot of people hold the view that we should let elected governments decide these sort of things and I see their point too.

But if we are in the mood for referendums and we really do live in a democracy, then lets have a referendum on whether we keep Trident or not,.