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Re: [BACnetLighting] Feedback DMF-011

Hi Jörg (and other interested parties), ... We are discussing DMF-011-10 in SSPC 135 BACnet committee today, and are discussing the use-case for On_Delay.

Message 1 of 18
, Nov 8, 2006

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Hi Jörg (and other interested parties),

> o On_Delay (REAL, seconds) Off_Delay (REAL, seconds): If the
> Present_Value is changed from 0 to some value greater than zero or vice
> versa the dim action is delayed for the time given in these properties.

We are discussing DMF-011-10 in SSPC 135 BACnet committee today, and are
discussing the use-case for On_Delay. The only use-case that we see is
using it for distributed start to keep the load from many Lighting
Output objects from creating a load spike.

The objections of having an On_Delay property is that this use-case
should really be a client feature, not an end-point object feature,
since scheduling a lot of Lighting Output objects would happen once, for
example, in the morning. Any subsequent accesses to the Ligthing Output
objects would probably not need the On_Delay, and so On_Delay creates
more problems than it solves.

Any discussion for or against having On_Delay property in the Lighting
Output object?

Best Regards,

Steve Karg
Lithonia Lighting

craig.spangler@us.schneider-electric.com

Steve, We use the On_Delay in our lighting products. The main user of this feature is in large warehouses. It s not a real lighting application but here is

Message 2 of 18
, Nov 8, 2006

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Steve,

We use the On_Delay in our lighting
products. The main user of this feature is in large warehouses. It's not
a "real" lighting application but here is how it is used. The
large exhaust fans in warehouses have louvers that need opened before a
fan starts and needs to close only after the fan stops. Typically the user
will open the louvers 10 seconds before turning the fan on and wait a certain
period of time after turning the fan off before closing them. I am not
sure if there are other similar applications that are not lighting apps,
but are used with lighting devices.

> o On_Delay (REAL, seconds) Off_Delay (REAL, seconds): If the
> Present_Value is changed from 0 to some value greater than zero or

vice

> versa the dim action is delayed for the time given in these properties.

We are discussing DMF-011-10 in SSPC 135 BACnet committee today, and are
discussing the use-case for On_Delay. The only use-case that we see is
using it for distributed start to keep the load from many Lighting
Output objects from creating a load spike.

The objections of having an On_Delay property is that this use-case
should really be a client feature, not an end-point object feature,
since scheduling a lot of Lighting Output objects would happen once, for
example, in the morning. Any subsequent accesses to the Ligthing Output
objects would probably not need the On_Delay, and so On_Delay creates
more problems than it solves.

Any discussion for or against having On_Delay property in the Lighting
Output object?

Best Regards,

Steve Karg
Lithonia Lighting

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Steve Karg

Hello Lighting Applications working group! DMF-011 - The BACnet Lighting Output object was voted out for public review today (13-0-2) at the SSPC 135 committee

Message 3 of 18
, Nov 8, 2006

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Hello Lighting Applications working group!

DMF-011 - The BACnet Lighting Output object was voted out for public
review today (13-0-2) at the SSPC 135 committee meeting in Atlanta,
Georgia. We included the "Tripped" reliability status from STK-015. We
still have some work to do adding the ANSI/ASHRAE 135.1 tests for this
object, and getting the document into the correct format for public
review. Thank you David Fisher of Polarsoft for continuing to work on
this object. Thank you to the members of this working group for putting
this object together and reviewing it.

We also discussed STK-004 - Multiplexer object, DMF-032 - WriteGroup
Service, DMF-030 - WriteGroupMode Service. The general consensus after
a long discussion was that the Lighting Applications working group needs
to re-convene to consolidate the three ideas into a single proposal.
Although we can collaborate online or meet to discuss these at another
venue, the next BACnet meeting is planned to be held January 27-31,
2007, in Dallas, Texas. More details about a specific date and time for
a meeting will be posted here as it becomes available. More details
about the ASHRAE meeting in Dallas can be found on their website:http://www.ashrae.org/dallas

Best Regards,

Steve Karg
Lithonia Lighting

jbroeker2712

Hi Steve, as I mentioned in a previous discussion, I personally do not know of any specific application for On_Delay. The reason, why I suggested it is, that I

Message 4 of 18
, Nov 10, 2006

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Hi Steve,

as I mentioned in a previous discussion, I personally do not know of
any specific application for On_Delay. The reason, why I suggested it
is, that I have taken a look at lighting controllers for LonWorks and
at least the ones I looked at have this feature. So I thought they
must have a reason to implement that. Maybe that was naive ... ;-)

Seriously, I do not have any objection if this property is removed.

Best regards,

Jörg

p.s.: Did not find the time to review the current/new proposal. Since
I am on vacation starting next week, I will have to take a look at it
when I come back.

--- In BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com, Steve Karg <steve@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jörg (and other interested parties),
>
> > o On_Delay (REAL, seconds) Off_Delay (REAL, seconds): If the
> > Present_Value is changed from 0 to some value greater than zero or
vice
> > versa the dim action is delayed for the time given in these
properties.
>
> We are discussing DMF-011-10 in SSPC 135 BACnet committee today, and
are
> discussing the use-case for On_Delay. The only use-case that we see is
> using it for distributed start to keep the load from many Lighting
> Output objects from creating a load spike.
>
> The objections of having an On_Delay property is that this use-case
> should really be a client feature, not an end-point object feature,
> since scheduling a lot of Lighting Output objects would happen once,
for
> example, in the morning. Any subsequent accesses to the Ligthing
Output
> objects would probably not need the On_Delay, and so On_Delay creates
> more problems than it solves.
>
> Any discussion for or against having On_Delay property in the Lighting
> Output object?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve Karg
> Lithonia Lighting
>

Langels, Hans-Joachim

Hello Steve, an On-Delay is not uncommon for output devices in the industry. Hence, I see value in keeping this Property. Best regards, Hans J. Langels Siemens

as I mentioned in a previous discussion, I personally do not know of
any specific application for On_Delay. The reason, why I suggested it
is, that I have taken a look at lighting controllers for LonWorks and
at least the ones I looked at have this feature. So I thought they
must have a reason to implement that. Maybe that was naive ... ;-)

Seriously, I do not have any objection if this property is removed.

Best regards,

Jörg

p.s.: Did not find the time to review the current/new proposal. Since
I am on vacation starting next week, I will have to take a look at it
when I come back.

--- In BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com, Steve Karg <steve@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jörg (and other interested parties),
>
> > o On_Delay (REAL, seconds) Off_Delay (REAL, seconds): If the
> > Present_Value is changed from 0 to some value greater than zero or
vice
> > versa the dim action is delayed for the time given in these
properties.
>
> We are discussing DMF-011-10 in SSPC 135 BACnet committee today, and
are
> discussing the use-case for On_Delay. The only use-case that we see is
> using it for distributed start to keep the load from many Lighting
> Output objects from creating a load spike.
>
> The objections of having an On_Delay property is that this use-case
> should really be a client feature, not an end-point object feature,
> since scheduling a lot of Lighting Output objects would happen once,
for
> example, in the morning. Any subsequent accesses to the Ligthing
Output
> objects would probably not need the On_Delay, and so On_Delay creates
> more problems than it solves.
>
> Any discussion for or against having On_Delay property in the Lighting
> Output object?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve Karg
> Lithonia Lighting
>

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