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This blog is meant as a resource to answer questions Christians may have (or lack discernment on), but can't get the answers to in Church, and possibly give Biblical viewpoints on the same issues to the unsaved.
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Wednesday, November 9, 2011

UFO Battle: Nuremberg 1561 (Nuernberg 1561)

update: 12-13-12

looks like I've been upstaged. this explanation details the sundog theory quite well, and I think I'm more cinvincef than what I originally posted. so take a look.

http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/nuremburg-ufo-battle-debunked/

old post:

Having studied UFOs for a good long while, there is one case that's been bothering me since i started viewing UFO's from a Christian perspective. That is, the 1561 (drawing made in 1566) Nuremberg UFO battle. In fact, this case was one that sort of got me thinking ET is real, here's proof. Here's the best resources on the internet I could find, for a generic overview. That's actually about all their is on the topic, most actually just repeat this.

On the surface, it seems to be a reasonably good proof of an ancient aliens scenario. Regardless of how credible this is, a lot of folks on the Internet think it's legit.

There are of course people who think this whole case is BS, and so try to rationalize it. One rational explanation is that it's a "sun dog". That is, a weird effect of the sun producing a light effect.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dog

Maybe that explains part of it, the boomerang shapes by the sun could be sun dogs, this event did happen at dawn. But I can't be convinced it can be explained totally as a sun dog. The orbs, and the crosses fighting each other and the "star destroyer" are hard to explain as natural phenomena. Not to mention, the Nuremberg woodcut is remarkably different from current photos of sun dogs (see the wiki), and also a Swedish painting of one.

Note how the painting is relatively obvious it's a sun dog. ("Sun Dog Painting" (Vädersolstavlan) Stockholm 1535) despite it being a little weird looking. It looks natural, and different from the Nuremberg event. The description is a little similar, in that the Swedish account is described as multiple suns and arcs across the sky for 2 hours.

But notice, this is 30 years earlier, and while they did interpret the Swedish event as an omen, they don't seem to be attribute any battle going on, and no crash. The Swedish painting looks more natural than the Nuremberg woodcut. Not to mention, the images don't seem to fight.

So, in light of another event, i will concede the Nuremberg event could have been a sun dog. Or at least happening at the same time as one. What keeps me from being totally convinced is the alleged crash object(s), the fact that the objects appeared to chase and battle each other. There is also the fact that the rods, circles and crosses all were separate.

In all the sun dog pics online, and a few youtube videos (first sun dog in mongolia is a really good one.) there are circles, and crosses, maybe even what could be perceived as cylinders (of light, not gray). But the crosses are inside the circles and the none of them appear to be interacting, and they all seem quite stationary in the videos. So until someone shows me a sun dog that does the things the Nuremberg one did, i won't buy it.

So, this moves us to the possibility of a hoax. This article postulates the entire event is fake. This is entirely possible...

Except for the fact that it appears Hans Glaser,was a real person and did other woodcuts. It was also referenced in older materials by Jacques Vallee.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hans_Glaser

http://www.telelaget.com/histcult/bonde.htm

But here's a few things in favor of a hoax. The history of the city of Nuremberg addresses a few historical things in the 1500's, and the UFO battle is not one of them. Look at Roswell, there's like 3 books a year about "new Roswell evidence" and festivals, etc, and that's only 60 years ago. Wouldn't people have made a bigger deal then? Wouldn't the city, with a link for tourism, market this even now? I would.

http://www.nuernberg.de/internet/portal_e/buerger/imperial_city.html

And no mention of Glaser, or this woodcut here. One would think, as a source exploring the art of the period, such an interesting piece would be addressed, but it's possible it was avoided because of controversy.

So, if it's a hoax it's probably a 500 year old hoax. Evidence in favor of a hoax 500 years ago, no current attempt to exploit it for tourism and no crash wreckage ever seems to have been recovered.

This one, may be possible, and it ties into where we're going next. Ergotism was the cause, and it was all a "mass hallucination". This would certainly explain why people saw a crash, yet make no mention of any wreckage.
Basically, people ate bread that wasn't good, and as a result hallucinated. Apparently, the mold acted similarly to LSD and therefore caused people to see this light show.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotism

http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t139128.html

Given that ergotism has some relation to LSD, I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate. LSD and certain other drugs, especially DMT have the ability to open a person's mind to the spirit world. This is not a good thing. The Bible warns us repeatedly not to engage in witchcraft and sorcery.

As Dr. Future says frequently, in Revelation 18:32 the word "sorceries" means pharmakeia (G5331), that is drugs. But in addition to drugs, my understanding is there's also a spiritual component as well, that is drugs and spirit contact go hand in hand. What's more, as i understand it, the Septuagint uses pharmakeia for witchcraft throughout the Old Testament.

Here's some podcasts that address drugs, spirit contact and UFOs, and you should be able to see some sort of connection.

So, my working theory is that the people in Nuremberg, sick with ergotism had their spiritual "eyes" opened through this LSD-like mold. Then, they saw into the spirit world, that is "hallucinated" a big "UFO battle". The battle in the sky, was perhaps the Ephesians 6:12 spiritual battle always going on around us, except they saw it. Perhaps also, Satan and his forces manifested in this manner during the battle, knowing that one day he'd be able to use it as proof for UFO visitation.

So the sun dog theory has something to be desired, especially in light of contemporary artwork. Not to mention, that i don't think people would be so stupid as to think that sun dogs are fighting each other.

The possibility of a modern hoax doesn't seem feasible, it would be easily disproven. The fact of an ancient hoax leaves a question of motive. Why would they manufacture such a story, and record it as a factual event in their news? Hans Glaser, to the best of my knowledge was a real person, and an artist in the period. He seemed to record other real events, why would he record a fake one as news?

Ergotism is a good answer, especially in light of a possible spiritual connection. But if this was a battle of "principalities and powers" what were they fighting over? Did they manifest because of the ergotism, or were they able to manifest without it? What's with the "star destroyer"?

We may never know this side of eternity for sure, but my money, for now, is on an "LSD" door opening which the locals witnessed.

Update 11-14-11

I did a little more digging. The city of Nuernberg has pointed me to a couple websites, one of which has been extremely useful. Of course, it's just the German wikipedia, but it's pretty good.

It turns out Hans Glaser was real, and he did actually produce the famous woodcut. You can read about it here:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Glaser

There's also talk of the 1561 UFO in here

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO

Pop over to google translate to get the gist of what they say.

Next, with the ergotism. In their history of ergotism (ergotismus, Mutterkornalkaloide) there doesn't appear to be any connection between the Nuremberg event and ergotism. That doesn't mean there wasn't a connection, but it's not clearly stated.

These links give some good info about ergotism and it's symptoms

http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/wong/bot135/lect12.htm

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/ergot.htm

But here is one article that connects the 1561 event, and other "ancient aliens" with ergotism.

http://www2.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/ufos-in-history.html

So, i'm still sticking with my theory, but this is new info that makes old evidence a bit stronger.

Hey sorry to not be on subject here but I am upset about how Sawyer is downed on LA's blog.

If you get a way I can contact him drop me a comment on my blog. He did not say anything out of the the way but hate was thrown on him. I've noticed that there that if you are not of that clique you are not wanted. Truth loves investigation, let it ring like freedom.

If it is an email or anything needing deleted after I receive, just say please delete when read.

Thanks Frank for being a friend of one downed for no good cause that I saw.

I must disagree with your conclusion that this event was a mass hallucination. For this to be true, everyone exposed to the mold tainted bread must have all had exactly the same hallucination. This seems impossible. The conclusion you reach would also require everyone to have eaten the bread. This also seems improbable at best. A far more likely cause is that people in Nuremberg actually witnessed what is depicted and documented. That being a battle between UFOs. This idea, though hard to fathom, is accurate per the evidence. There is no need to fear this conclusion. God created life. Why should be believe that he did not fill the vast reaches of space with this gift as well?