Hi Zombie just a few questions about the Mitsubishi HC8000, I am considering this unit, but wondering if ill have trouble mounting it. I'm going to ceiling mount it about 17 feet away in a light controlled room, the lens will be centered with the very top of the screen basically pointing to the frame on the screen on the very top in the center and my screen is 106 inch diagonal with 1.3 gain. Will the HC8000 work in this setup? also does this projector have a dust filter or is it filter less? I have heard that DLP is a sealed light path just wondering if its so cause im sick and tired of dust blobs on cheap Panasonic garbage. Also where is this unit made? is it Japan or China?

Hi, 16 feet is the farthest you can mount the projector from a 106" screen. The range for that size is ~11-16 feet.

The DLP should not get dust blobs during it's normal life expectancy. My old Mitsubishi HC5500 LCD had more dust blobs than pixels....

Not sure if it's made in Japan or China but it does seem like a solid built projector overall.

Hi, 16 feet is the farthest you can mount the projector from a 106" screen. The range for that size is ~11-16 feet.

The DLP should not get dust blobs during it's normal life expectancy. My old Mitsubishi HC5500 LCD had more dust blobs than pixels....

Not sure if it's made in Japan or China but it does seem like a solid built projector overall.

Ok thank you, with that said do you think this projector will work with my setup? cause I know you had issues mounting it. I just took a measurement and the lens will sit 15 feet away from the screen. Also how does the lens shift button feel? does it move easily? cause I used to own a VPLS60 Sony and I hated the lens shift cause I would have to re-do it every week cause of people walking upstairs it would shift on its own because the lens shift was so loose and the wheels were not hard to move. would that be an issue with this unit?

Ok thank you, with that said do you think this projector will work with my setup? cause I know you had issues mounting it. I just took a measurement and the lens will sit 15 feet away from the screen. Also how does the lens shift button feel? does it move easily? cause I used to own a VPLS60 Sony and I hated the lens shift cause I would have to re-do it every week cause of people walking upstairs it would shift on its own because the lens shift was so loose and the wheels were not hard to move. would that be an issue with this unit?

It wouldn't work in my setup because my screen is too big / close to my ceiling. With a 106" you'll need ~ 16 inches above the screen for optimal mounting. With the lens shift, you could get it closer to ~10 inches or so.

The lens shift controls seemed solid when I was making changes throughout the limited range, it should be ok.

It wouldn't work in my setup because my screen is too big / close to my ceiling. With a 106" you'll need ~ 16 inches above the screen for optimal mounting. With the lens shift, you could get it closer to ~10 inches or so.

The lens shift controls seemed solid when I was making changes throughout the limited range, it should be ok.

Oh oh you say you need 16 inches above the screen well mine is 106 inches 16x9 and the frame touches the ceiling its about a 6 foot ceiling. Is it going to be an issue? I cant go lower with the screen because then my center channel speaker will cover it. I measured and I only have 5 inches from the screen material to the ceiling. The frame itself actually touches the ceiling.

The overall winner is JVC X55 folowed by SONY VPL-HW 50ES. JVC X35 is a better overall projector since it has less ghosting and flickering than the SONY but the lack of CMS brings him to third place. Epson is the last choice.

The overall winner is JVC X55 folowed by SONY VPL-HW 50ES. JVC X35 is a better overall projector since it has less ghosting and flickering than the SONY but the lack of CMS brings him to third place. Epson is the last choice.

And face it, they are all winners and all losers. You can't know the winner until the super bowl and then for that you need and have an absolute score. Here in la la land, there is no absolute scoring system and half the judges, never mind. Every reviewer is an expert because otherwise they couldn't be annointed with the title and certified as a reviewer. Its great. Many unqualified judges, some Incompetent ones, and no absolute scoring system and you get all winners and all losers. And then you get the variables of screen materials, scren sizes, throw distances and rooms, Like trying to judge through fogged glasses in msany instances with no scoring because the judge doesn't even seesome important patameters.

This looks like a great review, I wish I could understand what he is saying.

Not too many people have all these projectors in the same room for a direct comparison. He also has a Lumis hanging from the ceiling.

This is a recent review, this must be the X35 post firmware since the customers in Germany received the update before anyone else.

This is exactly how the RS4810 vs HW50 looked when I had them side by side. The Sony is noticeable brighter. This makes sense based on the 4810 @ ~560 with CT =0 vs. HW50 @ ~1000 lumens.

some quick translations added. If anyone can summarize his last 2-3 minutes it would be appreciated. thanks!

Jason

In generel, he comes to the same conclusion as you, but he did find both the X35/X55 to have to little light output for screen´s bigger the 240 cm wide ( 94" wide ) especially for 3D, but he didnt have a HP screen (his was 280 cm wide 16/9 = 110 wide ),he also find them to be too noisy, again especially in the high mode.

There is not so much about the Epson and the Sony in the review ( but he likes them both too ) , if I get time, I will try to translate the last minuts in the review

From what I've read on this forum is opposite, the sony has less ghosting and flickering than the JVC.

I have posted on the on another thread, but will repeat here.

I upgraded from FLA-HD250, which was measured at ~780 lumens calibrated and the DLA-4810 (X55) is noticeably brighter.
My calibrated projector on a 150" EliteScreen Lunette Cinewhite screen is runing at -15 aperture at low lamp, projecting from 16 feet, center of the screen.
There is NO need to open the aperture more. (My HT has complete light control with black ceilings and dark maroon walls)
The 560 lumens in the review is either a bad measurement or a defective unit.

As far as 3D performance, what I can tel you, is that with the JVC RF emitter and glasses, I have absolutely NO flickering and have seen NO ghosting whatsoever. I watch 3D in stage mode (which stays in low lamp mode) as I see no need for 3D mode, which would kick the projector into high lamp mode with accompanying increase in fan noise and shorter lamp life.
With aperture at -15, there is plenty of room to open the aperture as the lamp ages.

No matter how many of us who own current JVC projectors say there is no ghosting.
Some just choose to think we are lying.EVen on SBS i see no ghosting.
The sony is unwatchable from what 1 guy said.
My crosstalk cancellor is set to the far right so the picture is plenty bright.
I only slid it over once when i was watching something of very poor quality.
Only time i have seen crosstalk.
Definately nothing there on retail blurays.

The 560 lumens in the review is either a bad measurement or a defective unit.

How can you make that claim? Have you measured your unit? If you have some sort of evidence that might suggest the 560 figure is somehow due to a bad lamp, please share it with us. If you dont have that evidence, all you are doing is throwing out subjective impressions/opinions which dont mean a whole lot since brightness is SO subjective as your setup perfectly illustrates (I would not personally be happy with that kind of light output compared to what I am getting in my setup in all due respect). There is NOTHING to suggest at this point that the 560 figure is due to a bad lamp (or a bad measurement as Zombie obviously knows what he is doing here and has taken more than one measurement just to assure he had it right) and the fact of the matter is that this is ~1/2 of what the Sony puts out in 3d, 1/2 of the 7000 and the Epson is ~2.5x brighter than the 4810 in 3d which is HUGE. Part of the reason ghosting and flicker are not sticking out is because you are watching very dim 3d in general considering the light output of the 4810 in conjunction with your large low gain screen. Throw that same projector on a 110" HP screen and I would bet both ghosting and flicker would be considerably more noticeable for those sensitive to these issues.

From the shots Zombie has posted, it is obvious that JVC has traded light/contrast/detail for improved ghosting this year. If you have objective evidence that shows otherwise, I am sure we would all love to see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zombie10k

This is exactly how the RS4810 vs HW50 looked when I had them side by side. The Sony is noticeable brighter. This makes sense based on the 4810 @ ~560 with CT =0 vs. HW50 @ ~1000 lumens.

How about this shot of the JVC vs the Sony that was just recently posted from another review that clearly shows a significant brightness difference between the 2 machines and FULLY supports the Zombie ~560 lumens findings............. was this projector defective as well? Was this also a bad measurement?

I'm not buying the recent comments on the JVCs unless some of the members who have been on this forum long enough post the same. There's too many on this forum that try to sway people one way or the other based off of their purchase. The Sony is certainly not unwatchable in 3D and it's one of the better 3D projectors. The Sony even has advantages over the JVCs in 2D in certain aspects but JVC is the king of black levels/contrast. But for 3D lumen output is a must if you like a bright pic and at least from Zombie's reports that hasn't been the case and he certainly hasn't been biased and provides great information for those just looking for the best projector to fit their needs.

No matter how many of us who own current JVC projectors say there is no ghosting.
Some just choose to think we are lying.EVen on SBS i see no ghosting.
The sony is unwatchable from what 1 guy said.
My crosstalk cancellor is set to the far right so the picture is plenty bright.
I only slid it over once when i was watching something of very poor quality.
Only time i have seen crosstalk.
Definately nothing there on retail blurays.

Who said Sony 3D was unwatchable? Sure hope you're not quoting me-- I said it's unwatchable only for Crysis 2/Uncharted 3 games in stereoscopic 3D. Those are all 720/60p, very different from 1080/24p 3D Blu-Rays; the latter are perfectly watchable, with minor ghosting (that's certainly better than the Panny AE8000U I tested). Haven't seen JVC or Epson, though.

I upgraded from FLA-HD250, which was measured at ~780 lumens calibrated and the DLA-4810 (X55) is noticeably brighter.
My calibrated projector on a 150" EliteScreen Lunette Cinewhite screen is runing at -15 aperture at low lamp, projecting from 16 feet, center of the screen.
There is NO need to open the aperture more. (My HT has complete light control with black ceilings and dark maroon walls)
The 560 lumens in the review is either a bad measurement or a defective unit.

As far as 3D performance, what I can tel you, is that with the JVC RF emitter and glasses, I have absolutely NO flickering and have seen NO ghosting whatsoever. I watch 3D in stage mode (which stays in low lamp mode) as I see no need for 3D mode, which would kick the projector into high lamp mode with accompanying increase in fan noise and shorter lamp life.
With aperture at -15, there is plenty of room to open the aperture as the lamp ages.

I also watch my 3D movies on my RS46 in Stage mode and I'm very happy with what I see. I've been wondering about something though. I've read a few times in the forums, including this thread I believe, that the CMD is not active in 3D but it shows as active (low setting but greyed out) watching 3D in Stage mode. Am I right to think that this confirms that the CMD feature works with 3D?

The 560 lumens in the review is either a bad measurement or a defective unit.

The 560 lumens is a measurement in 3D mode with the crosstalk controls set to 0 (factory setting). This is not a bad measurement or a defective projector. The #'s have been validated from a number of reliable sources, including myself.

The image below is exactly how the 4810 looks next to the Sony HW50. The Sony is noticeably brighter and the Epson looks significantly brighter than the JVC.

The X35 in this review is likely a post-firmware update and would expect the same lumen output at the 4810.

Acceptable 3D brightness is a subjective topic which is why we provide the lumen output in 3D. For this comparison, the JVC 4810 was ~ 560 lumens, HW50 @ 1000 lumens, BQ W7000 @ 1100 lumens and the Epson 5020 is around 1400 lumens in 3D mode. All projectors @ 17 feet from my 142" 16:9.

I'm not buying the recent comments on the JVCs unless some of the members who have been on this forum long enough post the same. There's too many on this forum that try to sway people one way or the other based off of their purchase. The Sony is certainly not unwatchable in 3D and it's one of the better 3D projectors. The Sony even has advantages over the JVCs in 2D in certain aspects but JVC is the king of black levels/contrast. But for 3D lumen output is a must if you like a bright pic and at least from Zombie's reports that hasn't been the case and he certainly hasn't been biased and provides great information for those just looking for the best projector to fit their needs.

There's been quite a few people on this and other forums that have had positive comments on the 3d performance of the new JVCs. Geoffrey Morrison, in his Sound & Vision review of the HW50, 5020 and X35(RS46) states that while the X35's 3D image is not the best that he has seen, he states: "the lightweight glasses and impressive brightness/contrast made it one of the better 3D experience I've had with a projector". From everything I've read it may not be the best at 3d, but a lot of users certainly seem very happy with the performance.

There's been quite a few people on this and other forums that have had positive comments on the 3d performance of the new JVCs. Geoffrey Morrison, in his Sound & Vision review of the HW50, 5020 and X35(RS46) states that while the X35's 3D image is not the best that he has seen, he states: "the lightweight glasses and impressive brightness/contrast made it one of the better 3D experience I've had with a projector". From everything I've read it may not be the best at 3d, but a lot of users certainly seem very happy with the performance.

Well, to be honest, I thought the 3D performance on the JVC DLA-X3 I had was good. Yes, there was some crosstalk and it wasn't the brightest thing in the world but it still had good depth and pop. Each member here has their own definition of what will pass for "good" 3D. For some perfect and good are synonymous with each other. To others the 3D performance of a lesser machine still suffices and pleases them enough not to care about some of the negative things of the 3D performance. Considering most users here watch less than 10% of 3D content I think the main focus of most of the upgrades should still be in the 2D department. I still think that 3D is going to be a fad and in another couple years it will dead.

@JVC 3D
As has been said throughout this forum over and over again, the 3d performance of NON-DLP's ghosts more as the lamp ages (much much much more). I don't know why we keep re-having this same discussion, Zombie already tested it and he has seen them all. I know for a fact that some stuff looks good on the JVC with a new lamp, but I guaran-freaking-T-u that the JVC ghosts, every non-DLP ghosts. Throw in the right content even on a JVC RS-46 and ghosting will be pretty bad, even on a new lamp. As that lamp ages, it will only get worse, there is no design difference to change this, and no non-DLP has been able to do this yet that I know of (prevent ghosting on aged lamps).

I understand some are happy with the newer JVC 3D performance, and it is perhaps a tad better, but to say any NON-DLP does not ghost is just ridiculous. I've seen the Epson 5010, and although ghosting is 1/10th what the JVC is, it's still there at times. As the lamp on the Epson ages, the ghosting gets to about half of what a JVC was on a new lamp, maybe even close to equal on a really really old Epson lamp (but haven't seen it on a lamp > 2000 hrs). The Benq I have = 0 ghosting.

In generel, he comes to the same conclusion as you, but he did find both the X35/X55 to have to little light output for screen´s bigger the 240 cm wide ( 94" wide ) especially for 3D, but he didnt have a HP screen (his was 280 cm wide 16/9 = 110 wide ),he also find them to be too noisy, again especially in the high mode.

There is not so much about the Epson and the Sony in the review ( but he likes them both too ) , if I get time, I will try to translate the last minuts in the review

dj

thanks DJ, I'm interested in the Lumis he has hanging from the ceiling. if that was a 3D solo, I'm pretty sure I could size down to 1 projector for 2D and 3D....

I confirm that Sony hw50 has no ghosting with 3D blu-ray and even with HSBS content.
Only time I've seen ghosting is when I was watching Prometeus HSBS (scene on 18th min). Glasses brightness was on "3", I tried to change it to "0" and crosstalk disappeared.

The 560 lumens is a measurement in 3D mode with the crosstalk controls set to 0 (factory setting). This is not a bad measurement or a defective projector. The #'s have been validated from a number of reliable sources, including myself.

The image below is exactly how the 4810 looks next to the Sony HW50. The Sony is noticeably brighter and the Epson looks significantly brighter than the JVC.

The X35 in this review is likely a post-firmware update and would expect the same lumen output at the 4810.

Acceptable 3D brightness is a subjective topic which is why we provide the lumen output in 3D. For this comparison, the JVC 4810 was ~ 560 lumens, HW50 @ 1000 lumens, BQ W7000 @ 1100 lumens and the Epson 5020 is around 1400 lumens in 3D mode. All projectors @ 17 feet from my 142" 16:9.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coderguy

@JVC 3D
As has been said throughout this forum over and over again, the 3d performance of NON-DLP's ghosts more as the lamp ages (much much much more). I don't know why we keep re-having this same discussion, Zombie already tested it and he has seen them all. I know for a fact that some stuff looks good on the JVC with a new lamp, but I guaran-freaking-T-u that the JVC ghosts, every non-DLP ghosts. Throw in the right content even on a JVC RS-46 and ghosting will be pretty bad, even on a new lamp. As that lamp ages, it will only get worse, there is no design difference to change this, and no non-DLP has been able to do this yet that I know of (prevent ghosting on aged lamps).

I understand some are happy with the newer JVC 3D performance, and it is perhaps a tad better, but to say any NON-DLP does not ghost is just ridiculous. I've seen the Epson 5010, and although ghosting is 1/10th what the JVC is, it's still there at times. As the lamp on the Epson ages, the ghosting gets to about half of what a JVC was on a new lamp, maybe even close to equal on a really really old Epson lamp (but haven't seen it on a lamp > 2000 hrs). The Benq I have = 0 ghosting.

It appears that you and others are calling me and others that do not see ghosting, liars.
I know what I see and I see NO ghosting on my DLA-4810, with my eyes, under my conditions.
And I am not trying to justify my purchase to no one - I have no need to do that.

What is obvious is that Zombie and many others like an overly bright image (to my eyes)
Now if the Sony is truly 2x as bright as JVC in 2D and it is projected on 2.4 or 2.8 HP screen, then the image has to be unpleasantly bright (exaggerated BB type image).
Now if that is what one likes, then that is your choice, but it is not mine.
To me it would be unpleasantly bright and I would venture to say it would require me to put on sunglasses.
Remember, not everyone likes a blazing BB image.
Calibrating a TV or projector, always leads to turning brightness levels down from BB image levels.
I had to adjust the aperture to -15 to have a calibrated image that was not overly bright.
Again, please don't get me wrong. If you like that type of brightness, by all means use it

And this may explain why those that crank up brightness (looking to replicate BB) may be seeing ghosting on the JVC, while those that do not care for an overly bright image do not see ghosting.

As far as 2D brightness, all I can tell you is that the DLA-RS4810 is significantly brighter (with aperture at -15) than the DLA-HD250 I had previously, with both in calibrated 2D cinema mode. Opening up the aperture more than -15 started throwing off my calibration and to my eyes was brighter than it needed to be. No review I have seen of the HD250 has shown calibrated cinema mode output of less than 750 lumens. The 4810 is without any doubt, brighter than the 250, it replaced in my HT. Now if you want to call me a liar,that is your prerogative, but I know what I see.

The 3D mode is significantly brighter than the cinema mode.
I did not calibrate the 3D mode as I did not like it and thought the stage mode was more than bright enough.

So why don't we try to show a little respect for one another and not go around calling others liars.
All I was saying, is what I see in my HT, with my eyes, without disputing others, without making definitive statements and without calling others liars.

I have said all that I have to say and will not say any more. I have no intent to argue with anyone.
I just stated what I see, with my eyes, under my conditions.
If you all want to keep on arguing, go ahead.
However, I am going to get back to enjoying movies in both 2D and 3D (ghost free and flicker free), in my HT, under my conditions, with my eyes and not spend any more time in this thread.

No-one called you a liar, we are just saying they all ghost. You may not see the ghosting, but it's there with the right content. If you really want to see ghosting, load up a game and try it in 3D, enuff said.

You are misunderstanding what we are saying, it's due to the technology limitations, ALL NON-DLP's have SOME ghosting, whether you see it or not, it's part of the tech, their is no argument here as it is a known fact. Not seeing ghosting on certain 3D blurays does not mean the PJ does not ghost.

As far as lumens go, this is impossible to tell without measuring it, you can buy a $15 light meter and measure it. Of course when you get a new projector it will seem brighter because you now have a new lamp, doh...

@ Dionyz... I think it is a bit disingenuous to claim those wanting more 3D lumens desire a BB image. There are standards (e.g. SMPTE 196M) and recommendations (e.g. 12-16ftL) for brightness and just because most have accepted well below those standards and recommendations for 3D and have allowed for things like ignoring calibration and lowering gamma (not saying that you have done either of these) does not mean that those that pay attention to brightness in 3D desire a torch-mode image. Just do the math... if you desire 12ftL for your image and your 3D glasses eliminate roughly 80% of the light, a rough estimate is that you should have 60ftL in 3D mode. Calibrated. Can you point me to a projector that does that on a reference 142" screen for under $5K? 60 sqft of screen, 1.1 gain, 60ftL... that translates to nearly 3300 calibrated lumens in 3D mode to get 12ftL to your eyes. It is not a desire for BB style image that people want more brightness in a 3D mode, it is a desire for a decently bright, detailed image with correct colors. Again, doing the math, if zombie is getting 1K lumens to his 60 sqft screen in 3D mode for a given PJ, and is getting 2.5 gain at the viewer position, that still only comes to about 8ftL equivalent after the glasses... I can see why he's still searching for more brightness!

I think it's a little early to make claims about ghosting on your JVC model. How many hours do you have on the bulb? If it's still under a couple hundred I think you should wait to make any claim about zero ghosting.