It's not an island.

A letter to the N4G moderators

(I tried submitting this through site feedback, but received page errors every time. So I'm putting it out here.)

Dear N4G gods:

First of all - kudos on the redesign. Very sleek. Looking forward to the mobile version. But...(yes, of course, there's a "but")

Maybe you're trying to breed fanboy wars, and if so, then kudos again, because that plan has succeeded way better than my first attempt at getting a hand-job (it was an embarrassing disaster). However, if you're trying to create an environment where people are free to express their thoughts and opinions and propagate something that at least appears to be a civil conversation, then...well...not so much.

The bubbles system is damaged. Let's just start with that. And by damaged, I mean broken. I'll use this as an example:

If you look in the comments, toward the top you'll see that "candystop" has been marked as a troll. But if you read his comment, it goes something like this:

"Yeah it's been 4-5 million for awhile and now 360 is starting to pull away again. Lead or not Sony and it's fans claimed P3 would surpass 360 4 years ago and here we are with the under dog doing thing thought impossible. With barely a lead I applaud MS for grounding PS3 and it's hype."

Obviously, it's an opinion, as is 100% of the comments we see on these stories. And yes, it's pro-MS. But it's hardly trolling. "Trolling" is when a MS fanboy shows up in a story about how perfect KZ3 will be and starts shouting about Halo. It's neither on-topic nor appropriate to the story's audience (PS3 users), and designed with one thing in mind - negative attention. But for candystop to be labeled a troll and lose bubbles for what he's posted (which is hardly offensive or off-topic - in fact, it's perfectly relevant), is grossly ridiculous.

And this is just one example. I've seen PS3 articles where pro-PS3 posters have been labeled as trolls and vice versa. That's like me going to my family reunion and being arrested for trespassing.

All the bubbles do is give fanboys a way to penalize those they disagree with and reinforce their own flock. On either side, there are heathens who profess to love games but clearly only love companies and they have more bubbles than I'll ever see, simply because they throw gallons of gasoline on the fanboy fires. The bubbles have less to do with behavior and more to do with ideology, which is wrong - offensive language and name calling is fine most of the time, but damn you for even thinking that God of War 3/Alan Wake/[insert exclusive title here] wasn't programmed by God Almighty Himself.

Perhaps a simpler solution would be to get rid of the bubble system entirely and replace it with a ranking system. The fact that (for example) can respond three times more than most users simply because he caters to the extremist PS3 crowd is disgusting. To rob someone of their voice simply because the majority does not agree with them is pretty close to fascism. Wait, actually I think it IS fascism.

The boards and comments need human moderators. Not a computerized system devoid of interpreting context. People subtract bubbles for the stupidest reasons - like typos! - and everyday, N4G deteriorates more and more into a second grade recess of whiney little brats (oh the irony as I sit here whining about the whiners). I say all this to both chastise and to stress how important I think N4G can be for legitimate gamers when it focuses on NEWS content and not flamebait/fanboy conjecture.

On the other hand, if your desire is to create a breeding ground for gamer hatred, then at least be honest about it and don't penalize people for doing essentially what you want and expect them to do.

That would be like giving the second graders rocks then arresting them when they start throwing. What did you think would happen?

amen. unless you're on your knees for a certain company, this site is pretty much unusable. eliminate bubbles and encourage use of the ignore feature, with the caveat that a reason for the ignore needs to be given. eliminate the agree/disagree feature too. man up and tell me why you disagree with me.

I think the agree/disagree should be a reply. text box is green for agree and red if they disagree. Either that or show who agreed/disagreed in a box (similar to the one on every news story where you rate the site and the article)

While you are correct on that there is an influx of people who will delete bubble from others just because they don't agree with the opinions expressed, you seem to not really delve too much into that pro-PS3 posts get similar treatment, and nearly focus exclusively on PS3 fanboys that act like idiots.

You bring up candystop's post, and you never bring up that he called out PS3 fanboys when he didn't really have to, and that he might've been saying things that some people said that not many others actually did. This is a crude epidemic in which the people who complain about PS3 fanboys bring it up as if anyone who dares to even OWN a PS3 or anyone who calls out people like The Mart or Bloodmask is called a PS3 fanboy and is put into a box with the worst of the worst (and they do it as if the Wii or Nintendo doesn't even exist). You seem to not bring that problem up when it clearly is a problem. You seemed to only bring up the other side as an afterthought, which, in turn, becomes the MAIN problem.

I love the comments section as it is. It's fun and honestly, it's the first thing I go to after reading most article subjects. If it were to change than I wouldn't open most articles, thus; leading to less traffic (meaning money) for the site. Leave it the way it is. It's why *most* of us are here.

I only signed up here a week ago or so but have been on-looking N4G for quite a while now. I usually wouldn't sign up to a site like N4G or any gaming site really (apart from a forum maybe) but here I enjoy reading good, healthy discussion on topics and thought I'd like to be a part of that too.

While I'm not completely sure on the whole "bubble" system I can see the problems. A few articles I'd read I'd see a huge fanboy war or a number of users flaming each other, or even just someone expressing an opinion opposite to most of the opinions of others that have read the article and I see a number of "disagrees" to the comment without many particular arguments against the persons points.

I'm sure even a few mods couldn't hurt if some people were willing to do it.

You signed up on N4G for "good, healthy discussion on topics and thought I'd like to be a part of that too"? No offense mate, but are you all well in the head? I RARELY see any sort of good or healthy discussion on topics. Ninety percent of comments are fanboys raving about why the competition has terrible games and hardware.

The only reason I come to N4G is because it's one of the few gaming-niched social voting sites that actually has an active user base. Albeit, one full of fuckwits, but this is the internet, eh?

@Roccohateskittens: Well yeah I do. Then again I tend to steer well clear of topics that are just inviting moaning and groaning between fanboys of one system or game and another, plus any time I see those sort of comments on the topics that I do click on and read, I tend to just skip over and go onto those that interest me.

'"Trolling" is when a MS fanboy shows up in a story about how perfect KZ3 will be and starts shouting about Halo.'

That is not true. That is 'off topic' and should be labeled as such.

'for candystop to be labeled a troll and lose bubbles for what he's posted (which is hardly offensive or off-topic - in fact, it's perfectly relevant), is grossly ridiculous.'

Truth is his whole comment had elements that entice argument. That is what trolling is. Trolling is not off topic as you describe it(talking halo in kz thread). Trolling is when you are legitimately trying to start an argument and your pal Candystop did a few things in his post.

A. Called people who buy "The sony name" Blind. B. Claimed some anonymous people made claims without backing up his comment with evidence. He simply stated a 'fact' that might as well be made up to 'pick a fight' or 'troll'. C. Then candystop says "I applaud MS for grounding PS3 and it's hype." Now this is confusing to someone like me. What "Hype" is he talking about? Kevin Butler? Momentum gained by games like God of War 3, GT5 and Uncharted 2? I don't understand this and all I see is someone making a statement that makes no sense at all... What he is saying in essence is, or at least how people see it "I'm glad that sony can't match the 360 because the ps3 doesn't deserve it". This is trolling at it's finest so yeah... So as far as I can tell he is Trolling and is labeled correctly and his bubbles reflect the quality of his posting.

As for your post.

You do know there is a filter on N4G now right? If you flip it to strict 99.999% of the fanboy articles disappear. And you'd be amazed and how different the front page looks before and after. However many people like the articles relating to the "Fanboyism" or "Flamewars". It's fun.

I am a self admiitted PS3 fan and most of the time I just watch N4G and don't comment much because well... There is no point.

Here is an example of my comments and maybe you can find the trolling in it.

Now I don't call out any individual or company or group or make any claims other then "My own opinion" I don't make claims about 360 fans. I don't make accusations about how others might enjoy something yet I get more disagrees then agrees for stating how I feel... Is the system broken? No. There are a lot of 360 fans out there who feel that I am saying "There have been no good games for the 360 this year" Which I did not say but they take it that way. There has been SCC and Alan Wake and a few others that 360 fans I am sure enjoyed but for me those games hold no value for many reasons I wont get into. That is my opinion. Yet I get disagrees for my opinion which makes no sense but that is N4G. If you don't like it either

A. Don't post.

or

B Use the strict filter

N4G makes a lot of money doing what it does. That is feeding to the masses. Letting blogs and no name sites pass off their flamebait as "News". It is entertaining to see it all play out as well. Complaining about it wont change it because of the money N4G makes off hits alone. It's simple business...