Sheryl Sandberg Presents: Deeply Troubling Stats About Womenhttp://www.businessinsider.com/sheryl-sandberg-presents-mind-blowing-stats-about-how-and-why-women-hold-themselves-back-2013-2/comments
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Wed, 13 Dec 2017 22:51:38 -0500Nicholas Carlsonhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/514977d56bb3f7a858000007imalushWed, 20 Mar 2013 04:48:21 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/514977d56bb3f7a858000007
Judging from the plethora of misogynist remarks, how is it any wonder why women aren't oppressed and disadvantaged.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51496e5beab8ea3230000001imalushWed, 20 Mar 2013 04:07:55 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51496e5beab8ea3230000001
Not unless it's human trafficking.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/513ebcd46bb3f7310c00001bdlmcdonoughTue, 12 Mar 2013 01:27:48 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/513ebcd46bb3f7310c00001b
Wow...never mind...you are Misogyny personified...
For what it is worth, take a look at your history of comments, and see if you notice a pattern.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/513a51c069bedd076c000001Matt DowdFri, 08 Mar 2013 16:01:52 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/513a51c069bedd076c000001
I work under plenty of competent and well paid women who are very good at what they do, but I also work with a lot of women who don't seem to have any ambition to stay in the work force long enough to progress their careers. A lot of women have the intention of raising a family and there is no problem with this, it is their choice and they are entitled to do so. Recently in countries like Japan and Italy where most women work full time, these countries tend to have declining populations because women don't ever care to have kids. Without kids there is no obvious future.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/513a19ceecad043f4c000013wamdudaFri, 08 Mar 2013 12:03:10 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/513a19ceecad043f4c000013
Everyone has to tolerate non compos mentis ignoramii, Our children - female and male, learned the Toltec Second Agreement: do not take anything personally. Insults, in what-ever form, tell more about the person offering the insult than about the person insulted.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5135ba1eeab8eae84f00001fKenyonTue, 05 Mar 2013 04:25:50 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5135ba1eeab8eae84f00001f
I like some of the things Mrs Sandberg says but...
Why does it seem so many of these studies are incomplete? I have not seen anything here on the INFLUENCE of women. Women have an enormous role to play in society and few people seem to mention it. Women work better with children (in general), and do well to bring up kids (in some settings). Also how many women influence the decisions and careers of men in the workplace through their husbands? I know a number of women who are "not seen" but influence their husband's success. The fact of the matter is that we were created different and to compliment one another. This is how our family works, and it works well, (Shyrel mentions some)
Some values in a family:
- Teamwork, support and communication between spouses.
- Respect for each other and different roles
- Dads to spend time with their kids and wives
- Mothers to be home for children growing up (but not necessarily jobless)
For wives Proverbs 31v10 to end (ESV/ KJV/ NIV/ NASB/ NKJV) cuts it out quite nicely. Read it - you might actually agree....http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130fe6becad042f04000002Sonya TrejoFri, 01 Mar 2013 14:15:55 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130fe6becad042f04000002
I don't dispute any of the stats above, but they bring up more questions than they answer.
What is the average IQ of a male executive? Let's say it's in the top 1% (though it doubtfully actually is).
If being an executive were solely based on IQ, we'd then expect to see a 4:1 ratio of men to women in these roles.
Any variation from this would then be about environment, nurture, and opportunity, not nature and IQ.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130fc1deab8eaf449000011Sonya TrejoFri, 01 Mar 2013 14:06:05 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130fc1deab8eaf449000011
Nice non-sequitor arguments there.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130fbc8eab8ea52470001a6Sonya TrejoFri, 01 Mar 2013 14:04:40 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130fbc8eab8ea52470001a6
Significantly.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat</a>
<a href="http://www.freepatentsonline.com/article/College-Student-Journal/150965835.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.freepatentsonline.com/article/College-Student-Journal/150965835.html</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130fa446bb3f7f56b000016Sonya TrejoFri, 01 Mar 2013 13:58:12 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130fa446bb3f7f56b000016
Why aren't there more ambitious women? Because they have to put up with men like lds and dwightmannsburden. The key would be to teach women how to succeed despite their attacks and jabs, and truly, utterly nonsensical, ad-hominem, illogical attacks.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130db7decad04383f00003aKern BeareFri, 01 Mar 2013 11:46:53 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130db7decad04383f00003a
Cheryl! Very thought-provoking. Thank you. We run a non-profit social entrepreneurial training program for college students that attracts about 70% women. The business is a grilled cheese deli. This mission is to raise money and awareness for the end of global hunger. Feelgood.org. Could we get you to come talk to our female and male students? Probably not. BUT, so glad you are out there with this message!!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130b1586bb3f73665000001wamdudaFri, 01 Mar 2013 08:47:04 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5130b1586bb3f73665000001
we were raised in a family and a sub-culture where child rearing is shared by extended family. we appreciate the advantages gained there-by and we have no continued that trait.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512f84d4eab8ea690d000009daPlungeThu, 28 Feb 2013 11:24:52 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512f84d4eab8ea690d000009
I would be really interested to see how some of these statistics are calculated. What was the sample size? Where are these women and girls from? I'm especially skeptical of the childhood and classroom stats about teachers calling on boys more often or scolding girls who speak out. That certainly hasn't been my experience. From what schools and classes were these observations made?
However, I will say that it is hard to argue with her conclusion that moms and dads need to share the responsibilities of raising children. I'm very thankful that I had two great parents that were deeply involved in my upbringing. I think the societal norms are already trending heavily that direction, at least in the current generation.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512f6a9c69bedd8445000025Steven BurdaThu, 28 Feb 2013 09:33:00 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512f6a9c69bedd8445000025
Thanks for sharing!!
- Steven Burdahttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/512f466f69bedd6e64000031MJThu, 28 Feb 2013 06:58:39 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512f466f69bedd6e64000031
I'm still stuck on why it is bad to not want to be a CEO. I am female, have a professional degree and two masters, and would rather cut my head off than be a CEO, or a manager, or an executive. What a horrible life outcome. Give me successful entrepreneur, boutique professional practice owner, and artist. That's a life worth living.
Isn't one massive root flaw in Sandberg's argument the assumption that ambition = wanting to be a CEO or executive? Why would anyone want that whey they could create a career outside of big corporate America?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512ed939eab8ea8d11000002Duane Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:12:41 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512ed939eab8ea8d11000002
The story would be more of a learning tool if the article would have described how and what those successful women did to achieve their success.
It seems we hear so much about how woman are undermined and so little about how they who succeed. My concern is that if all that is talked about are the barriers to woman succeeding then how many young women decide not to try because they only hear about the reasons/excuses they will not succeed.
The article focuses on numbers and doesn't mention the sacrifices that are necessary to achieve success as the author envisions it.
It is disappointing that the author miss interprets the Census Bureau's data. The 77 cents of women's earning compared to a dollar of men's earning is gross pay not pay per hour for equivalent work done. If the data took into consideration the number of hours worked, the nature of the individual knowledge and skills that pay differential may look quite different.
In conjunction with that, the 57% college graduates are a significant number, but what is that nature of those degrees? What is the percentage of engineering degree earned by woman? Engineers on average start at a higher pay than most other degrees.
With regard to the boys being called on and answer more than girls, as best I recall there are significantly more woman teacher than men making those selections in the classroom.
My reference point; our daughters are in those statistics; one has an MBA and was on track for executive opportunities and the other an engineer with similar career path. They were raised to have options and to make their own choices. They were not taught about the barriers to success, they were taught about what it would take to succeed. They have chosen their paths to success.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e66b2eab8eae67d000006KeegsWed, 27 Feb 2013 15:04:02 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e66b2eab8eae67d000006
Great article - hugely insightful. I would love to see some of the studies supporting the facts. In particular what constitutes a "thriving" child, and what the conditions required to produce one are.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e3e366bb3f73e46000003dwightmannsburdenWed, 27 Feb 2013 12:11:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e3e366bb3f73e46000003
Go make me a sandwich, sweetie.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e3c62ecad04d44f000001dwightmannsburdenWed, 27 Feb 2013 12:03:30 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e3c62ecad04d44f000001
You're joking right? You sound like a woman trolling as a man.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e2374ecad04c51c000019jeff iceybrainWed, 27 Feb 2013 10:17:08 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e2374ecad04c51c000019
There will always be some moron who chooses to ignore the content of the article, and extremely relevant topic with far-ranging implications and consequences for our species, and make his ignorance felt. Degrading the rest of us males who actually have the abilities of comprehension and thought in general.
"cowboys, Indians, NASCAR drivers, ad nauseam"
classichttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e1e8eeab8eafb4e000003Rezwan RazaniWed, 27 Feb 2013 09:56:14 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e1e8eeab8eafb4e000003
"Girls perform worse on tests when they have to check off M or F before taking it"? Significantly? Or just slightly?
Intriguing. This suggests that there are things we can put before a test for people to check off to get them in the mood to be a better test taker. What would those things be? A list of statements to check off. Like a pre-flight checklist.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e1de2ecad044816000001wamdudaWed, 27 Feb 2013 09:53:22 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e1de2ecad044816000001
About 90 years ago a sage opined that women were the greatest underdeveloped resource in this country. He is still correct because the mainstream culture is still dominated by male egos (rather than males); this country will not evolve into a truly great country until women regain the status which Creator intended them to have because males have a secondary role in evolution.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e0496eab8ea9d13000001Sophia TlaliWed, 27 Feb 2013 08:05:26 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512e0496eab8ea9d13000001
I want to be an insiderhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/512d185deab8ea8e01000006Bill BobTue, 26 Feb 2013 15:17:33 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512d185deab8ea8e01000006
"Girls get scolded for calling out".... where do they get their information? It was the exact opposite where I grew up, women treated like little princesses and boys treated like peices of trash. Only difference is boys don't cry about it they take action, unfortuantely the same cannot be said about women.
I treat women as equal, but it seem to me the majority of feminists are having a big pity party, and that is something I cannot respect.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512d04b5ecad048f02000003Joe WhiteTue, 26 Feb 2013 13:53:41 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512d04b5ecad048f02000003
If mothers would commit themselves to inspire their daughters from birth, grow their daughters' self concept from birth and actively build their daughters' self confidence to do, be and have whatever they want in this world this very valid blog would be obsolete in fifty years.
What holds back women are the thoughts in their heads about themselves put there by whom? Change the way you think about yourself and your entire life will change......true for mothers....true for daughters....true for all men. Sheryl Sandberg is a heroine of mine. What do mothers think of her, relative to themselves and relative to their daughters?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512cc24869bedd8d0b00000dShariee CalderoneTue, 26 Feb 2013 09:10:16 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512cc24869bedd8d0b00000d
I think the conversation about women in the workforce goes beyond perceptions and opportunities. Women leave their positions, sometimes temporarily, sometimes not, to focus on family and children. Working hard through their 20's often provides women with the confidence and financial stability to change the direction of their lives. "In a 2010 McKinsey report, female senior executives cited the "double burden syndrome" of balancing motherhood and work as the main obstacle to women attaining more top roles in companies." The messages we give to little girls should be about opportunity, equality, and choice!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bca81ecad046f2c000001robthoughtfulMon, 25 Feb 2013 15:33:05 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bca81ecad046f2c000001
The majority of men are also primary breadwinners and they have daughter's, sisters, wives and the majority of them are no longer of any mindset to hold back women. You can present all the numbers you want, but, the bottomline is women will settle for less in many aspects.
I can't tell you how many women I know who have been at companies for 15 + years staying in positions because their own husband is taking home the bacon and they don't need the extra money and settle for less. They also rise to positions in part because of this very fact that the male counterparts move on, make more money and negotiate harder for more risk. Case in point.
Ms. Sandberg has enough money to be a major venture capitalist, but, is she? Will she just pick winners and losers based on this ideology to promote women. She is obiviously capable, but, then also, why did she need her husband in this venture? The day is here when their are women making more than men in the same position, so now what? Pay the male the same?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bc883ecad04f527000003karielleMon, 25 Feb 2013 15:24:35 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bc883ecad04f527000003
Hi MT, I was sharing my experience, because an article resonated with me, but I had some qualms with the use of statistics. I am an American citizen, a taxpayer, and a woman who is working to put her husband through college, because he grew up in a poor family and college wasn't an option for him when he was younger. I work hard every week. What I am trying to understand and change is the feeling of not being good enough. t's a feeling that negatively affects my interactions at the office. Above all, this a personal exploration that I am doing on my own time. Look to yourself, MT. So quick to judge a stranger on the internet. So ready to lash out and diagnose a catalog a stranger's flaws and yet seemingly unwilling to take a look inward.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bbb72eab8eae550000019MTMon, 25 Feb 2013 14:28:50 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bbb72eab8eae550000019
Wow--sexism, racism, feelings of inadequacy, stolen spirit...obviously nothing is your own damn fault! Grievance and victimization drive much of society today, and articles like this one provide much of the fuel.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bb6b769beddab61000007radicalfeministpushingheragendaMon, 25 Feb 2013 14:08:39 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bb6b769beddab61000007
Sheryl Sheryl Sheryl. You have two children. Your husband works. I'm sure you both work very very hard at your jobs. Perhaps even 80 hours a week at times.
Who's caring for your children? Are your children getting the nurturing they need from both of you? Do you know the side effect of children without nurturing parents? Assuming you put them in a day care, have you seen the low quality in day cares and after school programs?
How much love and attention/nurturing did your parents give you? Did that help you get to where you both are today? Are you giving the same about to your children?
Now, that's all about you. You both are motivated and smart. Smarter than the average bear. Do you really think that average America can do what I said above? Aren't the average couple stressed to breaking points already? Aren't divorces at all time record highs? I wonder how long your marriage will survive. I'll check back on this in 5 years.
Why are you pushing your viewpoints on women. Why is our nation becoming a nation of wimps who cry 'I'm a VICTIM' at every moment of their lives? Why are you Sheryl telling women to cry victim. Are victims a lower more cowering species anyway. So in the end aren't you telling the 'not so smarter than the average bear' women in America to cry victim and get favoritism? Is that how you want women to gain an advantage? Favoritism? Is that how you got to where you are today?
AAAWWW poor Sheryl, we better hire her or else she'll litigate.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bb41c69bedd055b000009karielleMon, 25 Feb 2013 13:57:32 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bb41c69bedd055b000009
I will check out this book. I am a woman who struggles with success. On the one hand, I know that I do my job well and that I am talented. But knowing it doesn't help. I still have deep feelings of inadequacy at work. I feel physically uncomfortable when I am praised. When I have to speak about my own accomplishments, I feel extremely uncomfortable, and would rather be silent. I prefer to praise other people and when I speak about myself I am much, much more comfortable talking about my own flaws and incompetencies rather than my areas of expertise and high achievement.
Deep down, I know I'm a broken person. An essential part of my spirit has been stolen from me in the worst possible way. I gave up my dreams little by little through years of socialization into niceness, obedience, and care-taking of others at the expense of self-care. I don't know how to revive that part of myself, but I want it back. I still yearn to achieve, but it is so much easier to belittle myself. Belittling myself feels awful and good at the same time. And that frightens me.
I do object, however, to the use of the .77 cents for every dollar figure. That figure doesn't take racism into account. White women in the U.S. make a lot more money than black women and other women of color. It's always disingenuous to use that figure without discussing the impact of race.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bb2fbecad04c07b000016MTMon, 25 Feb 2013 13:52:43 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512bb2fbecad04c07b000016
Sorry, Cheryl, but I don't want to see the human race reduced to a collection of indistinguishable hermaphrodites. Girls who aspire to full time motherhood and women who perform that role are providing a greater service than you are as the COO of a flash-in-the-pan company. Accept that men and women are different, and let individuals make their own choices. Stop forcing the entire female sex to be something it's not.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512b8f6feab8ea6e67000006DreamMon, 25 Feb 2013 11:21:03 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512b8f6feab8ea6e67000006
"I have literally NEVER seen a smart, ambitious women thwarted by her gender and I have seen a lot of successful ones"
And yet there are literally numbers of smart, ambitious women who say that they are thwarted by gender" Should they substitute your opinion for their experience?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512a97c869bedd921c00000dStevie ZSun, 24 Feb 2013 17:44:24 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512a97c869bedd921c00000d
You know what ith the items above? Maybe women are more realistic and truthful, and men talk a ,lot more rubbish!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512a7eeceab8eae50e000001MariSun, 24 Feb 2013 15:58:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512a7eeceab8eae50e000001
Not even ONE of the women in the photo above look dressed for anything professional. When I keep reading articles telling women how to dress appropriately in an office setting, such as: No, tank tops and short shorts, or short skirts and stripper shoes are not appropriate attire for work, then that just tells me that most women still have no clue how to behave. With their constant idiotic behavior in day to day life it's little wonder why we as females are still objectified (Our own doing BTW aka Dumb Feminists) and not taken seriously. If you act and look like a tramp then that is how you will first and foremost be viewed and NOBODY takes these kinds of women seriously. Not even other women and personally, as a female myself I AM fed up with all their ridiculous and lewd behaviour that not only makes us look like a bunch of whores but also has an effect on the marriages and relationships of other women and their men. Women has brought this on us, the feminists turned on men instead of asking for their help and then the rest pulled down their tops and pulled up their skirts. So now we're viewed as sluts or bitches. I'm a female and I hate other women.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5129aa72eab8ea4729000014dknolaSun, 24 Feb 2013 00:51:46 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5129aa72eab8ea4729000014
>>>>(I mean slavery and lack of civil rights up to the sixties).http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5128e28a6bb3f7e40e000007KrisSat, 23 Feb 2013 10:38:50 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5128e28a6bb3f7e40e000007
Sexist articles like these are part of the reason why almost an entire generation of males are flipping the finger at females and saying no to dating, marriage and procreation. If such blatant lies and bigotry is allowed to pass for social commentary, then perhaps it is better for this society to simply cease to exist, collapse into a dark age then to be allowed to continue.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512895b26bb3f7387f00000cstevehSat, 23 Feb 2013 05:10:58 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512895b26bb3f7387f00000c
Sheryl Sandberg notes that a McKinsey study says men are promoted based on potential, while women are promoted on accomplishments.
This is completely understandable. The answer is simple one of a company’s investment and potential ROI in the employee.
Why are men paid according to their potential:
1.) Men do not get pregnant.
2.) Potentially a man can stay with a company their whole life.
Why are women paid according to their accomplishments:
1.) Women get pregnant, planned or unplanned. This interrupts their work life and forces the company to find and train or bring up to speed a new employee.
2.) Potentially women can get pregnant. When they do have a family, they will have childrearing issues for which they want to or must (or should) stay home. At a given point in time a woman might say that she does not want to have kids, or doesn’t want to start a family, until age 40. But that can change as fast as women’s hair style. Suddenly for no apparent reason she has changed her mind, and a company’s investment in her is for not. This may not be the case for all women, but it is for a large enough percentage that the rule is applied.
So a woman must be hired for what the company can be assured to get out of her, as her life goals may flip-flop without notice.
Does this mean that children are bad or a burden? No, not at all. Society needs new life on a regular and continual basis. Without children adults become selfish and think that life is about their fulfillment. If society lives this way it will self-destruct quickly.
Are women holding themselves back?
I am sure they are. I am sure that it is the thought of family that nags them. It should. Society needs healthy families. Part of the reason, according to Jane Jacobs in her book Dark Age Ahead, that we are heading into a dark age is because of the disintigration of the family. The proper impulse for the betterment of humanity and society is that families get more attention. No one, male or female, can work all day and then come home and with full vigor and attention, attend to the needs of growing children. If childrearing suffers society suffers. It is a direct outcome. No debate. I have worked for 8 years as a high school teacher, and can give hundreds of examples of how this has played out. Yes, a family needs a father too. But if *both* parents are absent, there is no hope for the continuation of the family.
There may be singular stories where children turn out well, but then every child is not the same either. It is the rarity where both parents can be a CEO and the children graduate with honors. Such families are extremely rare and the norms of society cannot afford to be set on the examle of the few easy cases.
Sheryl Sandberg should have given us all the facts. There are plenty of facts showing how well women run companies, how effective they are, and so on. But she gave only the data that she wanted to give in order to “prove” her pre-determined bias – which is ultimately destructive to society. Some “wisdom” is good to listen to, others is not. Before you allow someone like Sandberg to sway your viewpoint, get the full picture!
This is a bit crude, but if women are serious about never having children and following a career driven life, then they should get fixed and present documented medical proof to their potential employer. It would be sad for even one woman to agree to such a system, but I am confident that many would do so without hesitation.
What is more important? Your own fulfillment or giving your children – and society – a solid foundation? Self-focused lives destroy society, at every level.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512835096bb3f78e46000010highwaspFri, 22 Feb 2013 22:18:33 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512835096bb3f78e46000010
Good one Sheryl - make your self useful to the power's that be, even if it's in the capacity of an idiot. I guess we all gotta start some where. Seeing as how your public political career isn't going anywhere you can assist with a book on how to hate, blame and shame others for your own insecurities, fears and disappointments.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51282554ecad042139000005jaycenorninFri, 22 Feb 2013 21:11:32 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51282554ecad042139000005
Just saw this video on Facebook that responds to this in a way that I would never have had the eloquency to do myself.
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=476952982367446" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=476952982367446</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51280f7becad04ab0f00000aSoliAFri, 22 Feb 2013 19:38:19 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51280f7becad04ab0f00000a
You're not mature and rational enough to understand Simone de Beauvoir. Poor boy... xDhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/5128040869bedda33800000ddwightmannsburdenFri, 22 Feb 2013 18:49:28 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5128040869bedda33800000d
For 40 years now the feminists have been telling us weekly that there aren't enough female engineers, firemen, CEOs, CPAs, cowboys, Indians, NASCAR drivers, ad nauseam.
Maybe we have just the right number considering that we can't force people into professions they are not interested in?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5127e4116bb3f70b33000002KiddynamiteFri, 22 Feb 2013 16:33:05 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5127e4116bb3f70b33000002
I was with the article until the penultimate picture, when it gave the "simple solution": '… Sharing financial and childcare responsibilities with a husband makes for less guilty moms, more involved dads, and 'thriving' children." One of the previous slides indicated that 52% of black children are raised by single mothers, so clearly this solution isn't so simple to implement. And let's not go on to blame the culture of poverty for that. If Sandberg's comments are restricted to women who have that marital status, then it's fine, but then leave out the population(s) who she does not intend to speak about -- it masks the complexity of family structure and the relationship to economic opportunities and makes your argument grossly simplistic.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5127d298eab8ea0e1e00000bjeffriesFri, 22 Feb 2013 15:18:32 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5127d298eab8ea0e1e00000b
Some of us would rather educate children than create products that waste their time. It is not our problem if society choses to put power in the hands of those who engage in activities that bring nothing of relevance to society while the rest of us pursue what we believe will serve society. Perhaps those that don't break the glass ceiling realize it is not all that is "cracked up" to be. By the way we pay our taxes while Facebook sends their monies to the Cayman Islands and still gets a refund.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5127cf6cecad04341a000003Lydia SugarmanFri, 22 Feb 2013 15:05:00 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5127cf6cecad04341a000003
Nothing new in those stats.
I *really* want to like this book and what Sandberg has to say. I keep repeating "radically realistic" in my head. It's a sad testament to the fact that women have made little to no progress in the last several decades. The feminists of the 60's and 70's certainly didn't fail! But, how did the younger women following them become so complacent and think there was nothing more to fight for?
Obviously, there are many of us who really have no choice. We're single mothers working to get ahead. Sandberg is fortunate in so many ways, just the part about getting your husband to shoulder his share of the work of a family is unrealistic, forget about all the advantages that come with wealth.
My single greatest hopes are that women of all ages will learn how to claim their places, how to negotiate equal pay, how to stop sabotaging each other, that people will stop denying the myriad subtle discriminations we face on a daily basis that wear us down until we can no longer fight for what is ours.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512791b3ecad049125000001JanFri, 22 Feb 2013 10:41:39 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512791b3ecad049125000001
Yes, I had to read that one twice before I understood what they were on about...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512782a569beddd56f000005AbsoluckinfutelyFri, 22 Feb 2013 09:37:25 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512782a569beddd56f000005
"the MAJORITY of men are onto the feminists' game."
Gettin' to be damn near all men are on to feminism. And a large and growing number of women are rejecting the misandry.
If a feminist calls you "creepy," come sit right here by me.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51277ef86bb3f7286e000014dwightmannsburdenFri, 22 Feb 2013 09:21:44 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51277ef86bb3f7286e000014
What a wonderful example of radfem "logic."http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51272d07ecad04f05f000014Nesa Simon DavidFri, 22 Feb 2013 03:32:07 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51272d07ecad04f05f000014
Contrary to what you think, the MAJORITY of men are onto the feminists' game. Which is why MOST of the upvoted comments here are critical of the article, and MOST of the downvoted comments are in support of the article. Where are these multitudes of men you speak of, who "don't feel the way you do about women"?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512729ca69bedd380d00003eNesa Simon DavidFri, 22 Feb 2013 03:18:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512729ca69bedd380d00003e
don't you know? feminists hate children.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512728eeecad049f5b00002dNesa Simon DavidFri, 22 Feb 2013 03:14:38 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512728eeecad049f5b00002d
"what is so wrong about girls having the same opportunity (not necessarily outcome) than boys?"
Now that's very dishonest.. The problem is that you will only say that women have equal opportunity when there are equal outcomes... at which point there will no longer be equal opportunity..
You most definitely are NOT arguing for equal opportunity. Because this whole article is full of statistics showing OUTCOMES.. not opportunity. As long as outcomes are not the same, you will claim that women don't have enough opportunity.
Very very dishonest.. just like all feminazis ever.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51272349eab8ea9c17000002DeDeFri, 22 Feb 2013 02:50:33 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51272349eab8ea9c17000002
Creepy, creepy guy. Stop it. Please. Now go and tell your mother or girlfriend (albeit not likely) what you so boldly said anonymously online. No? Thought not. You'd like it to be about complaint but it's not. The book wasn't written for you - why your bizarre response? Really, these responses proves Sheryl's position. No one, repeat no one is asking for anything other than equality of opportunity. Not a leg up. Certainly not your approval or disapproval. You just don't count I'm afraid. You disparage women. It's not symmetrical. We love the guys in our lives and the guys we know simply don't feel the way you do about women. It isn't normal and it isn't mentally healthy. And you and a bunch of creepy guys come on these boards, spout your hatred and fear and sadly find each other. There is no vast feminist conspiracy. Men love women and women love men and it get s complicated when we have babies. Really what Sheryl is saying is completely anodyne. It's written by a women for women. I wouldn't dream of commenting on a book about how men should help themselves in their careers, but somehow you and you cadre of weirdo friends do. What gives sweetheart? Don't take out what happened to you on the rest of us.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126ed4cecad047865000034John DavidThu, 21 Feb 2013 23:00:12 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126ed4cecad047865000034
All the feminists who aren't lesbians already should really consider it. We don't want you!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126ec9aeab8eaf721000007ShabbyThu, 21 Feb 2013 22:57:14 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126ec9aeab8eaf721000007
Feminism was a scam perpetrated on white women. After its introduction Jews continued having just as many babies as before (and traditional marriages) while non-Jewish white women went the other way.
Divide and conquer!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126e9836bb3f7a854000011Herb 77Thu, 21 Feb 2013 22:44:03 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126e9836bb3f7a854000011
So being powerful is more important than family. Gotcha.
Hey, now that women are 3/5 of college graduates, how about we utilize affirmative action to even things out? Not interested I bet....http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126ce57ecad049731000018TheBiboSezThu, 21 Feb 2013 20:48:07 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126ce57ecad049731000018
The turnover rate among female CEOs is gigantic: of the 15 Fortune 500 female CEOs in 2010, only 6 of the 15 were still on the job in 2012. In similarly sized companies with male CEOs, 13 of 15 were still on the job (2010 to 2012). Sure, female CEOs are wonderful - just don't blink, or you will miss them.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126cc46ecad047131000002WowThu, 21 Feb 2013 20:39:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126cc46ecad047131000002
You have commented regularly on stories of people being tragically affected by others, politics and/or nature, and you are so "utterly repulsed" by this "myth"? I didn't need to (though by my nature I did) read anything beyond that painfully obvious point. In this respect, ignorance and bitterness go hand in hand.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126ca2b69beddea36000006Jean ValjeanThu, 21 Feb 2013 20:30:19 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126ca2b69beddea36000006
There is a fundamental difference in the way men and women approach the world.
Men overcome adversity in order to make a place for themselves and the people they love in the world.
Women complain until someone else overcomes adversity and makes a place for them in the world.
As long as people frame the "difficulties" women experience as some kind of vicitmhood rather than the consequence of their own independent and autonomous decisions then women will never achieve what men achieve.
Further, it is also clear that when women are doing better, like in education, you cannot conceive of that as success but rather insist that more is needed or that in some other way connected to it women are victims.
The problem is not how often mommy holds you. The problem is that women make babies. And when they make babies many of the realize the lie of feminism. eg. that being a mother is oppression and work is freedom (arbeit macht frei!).
Women choose jobs that will allow them to be mothers. So long as that is there choice it is not your right or feminism's right to convince them otherwise. By doing so it is YOU who is limiting female choice and freedom.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126c63569bedd4a2600001bStill Bitter?Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:13:25 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126c63569bedd4a2600001b
This comment exemplifies the reason why I never gave it up to you. You were an a**hole then, and you're still an a**hole now. So, how's the taste?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51268df4ecad04813800001fSturgeonThu, 21 Feb 2013 16:13:24 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51268df4ecad04813800001f
Pffft, equal opportunity? Yeah right. It never turns out that way. First they allow women to be firefighters and then later feminists complain that too few women pass the test. So then women get special treatment. First women get into business, then feminists complain because too few women become rise through the ranks. Like in Norway where they have quotas for board members.
That's what "equality" always turns into. Special treatment for women. I hope you enjoy having the phrase "quota hire?" written on your forehead, because you do.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51267453ecad047c0c000001atahualpaThu, 21 Feb 2013 14:24:03 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51267453ecad047c0c000001
So... more parental attention for girls means that they are at a disadvantage? Incredible how anything can be twisted to make women into victims. I have a thought - maybe men and women are just different. Try reading through the photo essay with that wild extreme hypothesis in mind.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51266c3fecad041c77000015JimboThu, 21 Feb 2013 13:49:35 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51266c3fecad041c77000015
So it's the Moms' fault? Why does everybody blame the moms?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512669326bb3f7f061000026Jumoke AkureThu, 21 Feb 2013 13:36:34 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512669326bb3f7f061000026
Seeing this alarming rates make me wonder the type of Stats African women will turn out.
All the various scenarios painted here old true also for African women and much more.
Spme don't even get educated enough and soe times the Level of education of girls at least in Nigeria is also dependent on tribe, soe train their girls to extremely well (Southwest) and other hardly bother ( Core North) and there are a few in the middle.
A lot of working women are also concerned more with a pay rise than actually becoming change agents in their choosen sectors, the just believe its beyond them.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512668cbecad04d87400000cRon73Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:34:51 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512668cbecad04d87400000c
I distrust anyone who wants "power".http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126403e69beddab5d000020Lysander SpoonerThu, 21 Feb 2013 10:41:50 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126403e69beddab5d000020
Sheryl Kara Sandberg has much in common with Barbara Streisand.
<a href="http://retropundit.wordpress.com/1913/01/10/consider-yourself-warned-women-in-the-workplace-means-disaster-for-the-race/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://retropundit.wordpress.com/1913/01/10/consider-yourself-warned-women-in-the-workplace-means-disaster-for-the-race/</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512621d46bb3f7ab55000038BlitzerThu, 21 Feb 2013 08:32:04 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512621d46bb3f7ab55000038
Who's rear did all this crap fall out of? No, seriously.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126138869beddab6e000001Nigel RaeThu, 21 Feb 2013 07:31:04 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5126138869beddab6e000001
If women still can't compete with men with all the help governments, society, NGO's etc. give them maybe it's time to give up this idiotic game.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125cbf46bb3f7303d000008Michael888888Thu, 21 Feb 2013 02:25:40 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125cbf46bb3f7303d000008
I'm not surprised!
I just went through a divorce after 12 years with my wife. We had a mutual debt of several hundred thousand.
I left house and car to her and paid the rentals and bills for another 18 months, and on top of that I paid out over 5 years the debt. She was working with a good job and income.
I tried to settle amicably, but instead she sued me, and won the case, where on top of all I had paid and the debt I was paying off, the court in Singapore told me to pay her another $300,000.-
No wonder we, and Asia (I'm from EU), look down on women, when they are not treated equally to men... But this is also a trait of Singapore which is very chinese, where of course women are not regarded as equals.
As long as there is no 50/50 treatment between the two, the respect for women will be equally low, sorry.
Anyway, Law in Singapore is nothing to do with law, but rather who's got the best lawyer, and who knows the judge best....
In this case, the judge was of course a divorced woman!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125c81decad04573b00003bDeDeThu, 21 Feb 2013 02:09:17 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125c81decad04573b00003b
But why do you feel so strongly about something that isn't really about you? Do you have a daughter. How would she feel about the language you have chosen? What's your beef? I'm not saying all women are oppressed at all. I said that you probably had no conception of some of the crap women in your life have faced; I didn't say that men don't face crap too. Yep, life isn't fair. If you actually bothered to read the article it was about how women themselves self-limited. It wasn't about oppression per se.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125c05d6bb3f7b42700001bDeDeThu, 21 Feb 2013 01:36:13 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125c05d6bb3f7b42700001b
I'm hardly a victim. Actually have down rather well. Why are you so uncomfortable with what I'm saying. Why the attacks? That's just a sign of weakness. can't you see that. You don't debate. You don't want to. What are you so afraid of?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125bfd669bedd4a1a00001eDeDeThu, 21 Feb 2013 01:33:58 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125bfd669bedd4a1a00001e
Bad conclusion. I'm not saying that at all. In fact I'm quite prepared to say that my anecdotes are just that. Lets go to the data...which is clear. You attack me and attack Sandberg with your vitriol. I ask that you use logic and reason and you cannot. Take a look in the mirror. This is personal for you, isn't it? I'm not saying anyone is wrong. I'm saying people get to choose their own path in life. Let them. i'm a libertarian. You are not.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125a5c9eab8ea0444000010Francois Zappinski Jr IIIWed, 20 Feb 2013 23:42:49 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125a5c9eab8ea0444000010
So, the "Accidental Billionaire" (Zuck) endorses the woman he hired as COO.
Astounding.
So there; it's settled. She must be great.
Let no one question her assertions.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51258dfb69bedd3e2a00000akfgWed, 20 Feb 2013 22:01:15 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51258dfb69bedd3e2a00000a
metrics, please? I find this short-sighted and completely non-statistical... one study of 4,000? ever heard of sample size? woman or man, doesn't matter - it's the individual. quit playing the female card for pity... I did.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51258481eab8eafb78000012yeah rightWed, 20 Feb 2013 21:20:49 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51258481eab8eafb78000012
Until you have walked in the shoes of the average working mom, you should probably keep you Harvard educated, nanny-and-housekeeper- on-the-premises mouth shut. Even in situations where husbands help out, it still falls upon the mom to project manage the family in addition to doing a lot of the work. It is mind blowing how hard it is to keep the household going even when Dad folds the laundry, etc.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512580d9eab8eafe78000003vjndciwkndjfcvWed, 20 Feb 2013 21:05:13 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512580d9eab8eafe78000003
wow that video is amazing... she is such an awesome woman. Love her!!!!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51257610eab8eadd5a000017test3Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:19:12 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51257610eab8eadd5a000017
Actually, it's taking women exactly where they want to be - wallowing in their own victimhood. It's what they're best at! Men are best at building stuff. Let's try a little experiment: Look around the room the room that you are. Men built that room - and everything in it! The framing of the house, the walls, the furniture, the PC, the TV, the cell phone. THen look at the window. What do you see? Whatever it is, it was built by men. Every road, every bridge, every car, every building, the electrical and HVAC and sanitation systems that serve that building - all contemplated, invented, designed, built, and maintained by men. What has women's contributions to civilization been? Well, they had babies. No amount of phony oppression rant by ugly feminists will change reality. (BTW, feminists are almost ALL ugly, are they not? And jewish - 90% of the feminists I see are jewish. Not sure why. But its a fact, isn't it?).http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125744769bedd486b000009Test -2Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:11:35 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125744769bedd486b000009
Testhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/51256d2aeab8eaa146000038ElizabethWed, 20 Feb 2013 19:41:14 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51256d2aeab8eaa146000038
The confidence issue is a big one. Just yesterday I had this conversation with a male colleague. Him: "Tomorrow I'm going to ask for more money." Me: "You should ask for double" (thinking, that would be so cocky and outrageous, I'd scale it back to 20%). Him: "Double? I'll ask for much more and SETTLE for double." So even my definition of an 'outrageous ask' was less than his normal ask. I do not believe he was exaggerating.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51256a8469beddfb51000009JoseWed, 20 Feb 2013 19:29:56 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51256a8469beddfb51000009
First was Black people ..,,Then gay and lesbian ...Now Women ...What is next....
We know humanly ...We are no perfect ..but the way sandberg is talking ......give pease a chance.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51255ba0ecad04e379000006GregWed, 20 Feb 2013 18:26:24 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51255ba0ecad04e379000006
Well, maybe search on "women" and see all the BI articles about how "Women" can do this that or the other thing better. It's blatant sexism. Yeah I know the nonsensical argument self declared "oppressed" like to make that due to their relative disempowerment they can never be guilty of an "-ism", but as all power is local and circumstantial that blanket argument is and always has been complete BS.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512558cfecad046171000012GregWed, 20 Feb 2013 18:14:23 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512558cfecad046171000012
...and as a woman you have your biases as well. I've never met anyone who didn't feel unfairly passed over for a promotion at some point.
You don't have a bigger data set than me, you have a bunch of personal anecdotes filtered through your own biases and perceptions and blurry memories. The truth is there have been compelling and objective analyses by people who are not championing some position (a rare thing in this world of "advocacy statistics" and "think tanks") that show that personal lifestyle preferences that vary by gender, not bias, accounts for all of the statistical differences people keep falsely lamenting. You're calling what people want "wrong". Steven Levitt, the guy who wrote Freakonomics, did some excellent work that destroyed this myth of oppression for example.
You want to believe men are keeping you down, fine. I'm sure it happens sometimes as does every stupid thing under the sun. But I do passionately object to those who advocate laws supposed to balance out this non-existent pervasive bias because such laws end up creating a real one...and ultimately all the writing, arguing, lobbying and advocating comes down to wanting these foolish harmful laws.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512556ee69beddaf1f000026George PetersWed, 20 Feb 2013 18:06:22 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512556ee69beddaf1f000026
Pure bull. Saying the answer to single motherhood is to give women more opportunity? How about addressing the problem of children growing up without a Father.
Oh right your answer for the important role of Fathers is to babysit more so the woman can go out and have more opportunity. Yeah....being rich means you are smart.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51254ea9ecad04c36100000ajBBWed, 20 Feb 2013 17:31:05 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51254ea9ecad04c36100000a
..her spouse & upbringing helped propel her career. i think you have to compare apples to apples, even when its about women.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51254c2669beddaf0200000dKolaWed, 20 Feb 2013 17:20:22 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51254c2669beddaf0200000d
I don't understand how this entire article doesn't once mention the fact that women also have this thing called uteri that creates a little problem called a biological clock which sometimes influences career decisions.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51253ddfeab8ead764000001HarryFWed, 20 Feb 2013 16:19:27 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51253ddfeab8ead764000001
Always the victimhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/51253dc4ecad042b43000007Jill HickmanWed, 20 Feb 2013 16:19:00 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51253dc4ecad042b43000007
I disagree that the solution to having more women in power is having a supportive husband to share family and financial responsibilties. What about all the single women out there? Is the primary criteria for women in leadership positions to be married? arggghhhhhhh. This is such a big step backward...in so many ways.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51253d526bb3f7d72f00001fharryFWed, 20 Feb 2013 16:17:06 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51253d526bb3f7d72f00001f
Times a million.
Engineer has no race, religion or gender.
Only the talentless need to 'lean in'.
Mayer can turn around Yahoo as long she can cast off the title of female CEO that the media is trying to label her with and replace it with CEO.
What is it she said, I am not a Google woman, I am a Google geek.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51253c03eab8eaf25c000015harryfWed, 20 Feb 2013 16:11:31 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51253c03eab8eaf25c000015
Sexist
Misogynist
Small tool
Mum's basement
You lot are really going to have to update, your playbook.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125399169bedd5d58000021HarryFWed, 20 Feb 2013 16:01:05 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125399169bedd5d58000021
Calm down, dear.
What conclusion would you like, I will get a stat for you?
What did you do, ever?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512534e5ecad04e22f00000aSay wha?Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:41:09 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512534e5ecad04e22f00000a
A bit of confusion here. My comment above was meant as a response to Lds.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512527256bb3f7540a000002Boondocks blimpWed, 20 Feb 2013 14:42:29 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512527256bb3f7540a000002
Nice cut-and-paste job, Kristi...you made the same comment word-for-word above.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51252409eab8eac029000008WSRWed, 20 Feb 2013 14:29:13 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51252409eab8eac029000008
All we hear about is complaining, and complaining. That does not lead anywhere. Women need to start helping one another more in stead of only complaining what men do not do in the case mentioned.
Just a thougt I follow every day by action.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51251431eab8ea967f00001bDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 13:21:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51251431eab8ea967f00001b
Well you can't have it both ways. Either the women works and supports the family or she is supported by the partner having kids. So if its wrong to be a housewife and the partner pulls her weight financially doesn't it make rational sense to you to help her maximize her career potential. As to the maid, you need to find that pump. I guess she never speaks back but the rubber gets a little worn out after a while :)http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51251386ecad04d972000001DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 13:18:46 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51251386ecad04d972000001
And where apart from your opinion is your data for that? Labels aside, what is so wrong about girls having the same opportunity (not necessarily outcome) than boys? Don't boys get a say on how they want to live their lives? I wouldn't dream of being so prescriptive about them. Why then is it OK with girls? Why are you so angry at women? i'm not at men. I don't believe for a second that the posters here are representative of men. a certain, angry, bitter type for sure.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512512776bb3f7145f000008DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 13:14:15 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512512776bb3f7145f000008
Wrong timezone. My work is done. These fora become the little misogynist's club circle jerks unless one person says, hold on a minute, why do you hate women so much? Cece, read what some of the posters have written. Do you real see women that way? If so, I'm truly sorry for you as you can never be happy. I mean some of it is just dead creepy. If I can stop one person in their tracks I don't mind the lightening rod to me. I don't care.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512511666bb3f7ed5e000002DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 13:09:42 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512511666bb3f7ed5e000002
It is isn't it? None so blind who cannot see. There is a cadre of deeply troubling people who *always* pontificate about articles to do with women. You know there is a vacancy in Rome right now...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512510686bb3f78d58000001KristiWed, 20 Feb 2013 13:05:28 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512510686bb3f78d58000001
I agree. This is not a quality discussion. I'm out, but here's my 2 cents:
I'm just droppin' by here- but for my 2 cents, there seems to be an overreaction in these comments to some simple statistics. The discussion of who's getting media attention and who's great and who's not seems quite beside the point. I think the idea of the article is that women appear to be involved in some self-limiting thinking. With some societal and cultural barriers thrown in, this results in an unequal representation of women in the ranks of power. I don't see anything worthy of indignation here-comment-wise- so I conclude, along with DeDe, that some ire has been raised because the article is about women. This frequently happens when there is an article about women, and frankly, this whole phenomenon seems to me to be fine support for the article generally.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51251013ecad04086800001aDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 13:04:03 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51251013ecad04086800001a
No indeed. No one wants to debate the logic of what Sandberg says. I'm pointing out the irony of it. The irony of your statement is enough for me.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51250bec69bedd3363000005KristiWed, 20 Feb 2013 12:46:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51250bec69bedd3363000005
I'm just droppin' by here- but for my 2 cents, there seems to be an overreaction in these comments to some simple statistics. The discussion of who's getting media attention and who's great and who's not seems quite beside the point. I think the idea of the article is that women appear to be involved in some self-limiting thinking. With some societal and cultural barriers thrown in, this results in an unequal representation of women in the ranks of power. I don'y see anything worthy of indignation here-comment-wise- so I conclude, along with DeDe, that some ire has been raised because the article is about women. This frequently happens when there is an article about women, and frankly, this whole phenomenon seems to me to be fine support for the article generally.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125080b6bb3f73c4d00000eUzhasKakoiWed, 20 Feb 2013 12:29:47 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125080b6bb3f73c4d00000e
Wow! What a kitchen sink. Is there anything that you forgot to throw there? An ounce of sense and a PhD, Pile High of D*&#.
The pereseption of quality at businessinsider.com just disappeared. :( .... Too make it worse, on a quality topic.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125056d69bedd5756000004georgie Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:18:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5125056d69bedd5756000004
Very interesting reading !http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512504f2eab8eaf65e000001Denise PreziosoWed, 20 Feb 2013 12:16:34 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512504f2eab8eaf65e000001
Some very valid points in this article, but I don't agree with it all. I think personally one of the biggest challenges women faces in business is that we don't have enough mentors. More often men mentor other men. Mentoring by senior leaders is the best way to advance a career (high performances being a given). Men often choose other Men to mentor and I am willing to say that sometimes other women in leadership positions often probably feel pressured not to choose to mentor another women (trying to blend in with their peers). It is in mentoring that higher position are often more easily obtained (if performance being equal or better).http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51250459eab8eab359000011AlexisWed, 20 Feb 2013 12:14:01 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51250459eab8eab359000011
This was incredibly revealing and I thank you. It's about time someone with influence had the guts to say it. UNAPOLOGETIC INDEED!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124fd9e6bb3f77337000017Lyn87Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:45:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124fd9e6bb3f77337000017
lol @ "Gas lighting." That's fem-speak for what sane people call "Logic."http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124f478ecad045e39000002ceceWed, 20 Feb 2013 11:06:16 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124f478ecad045e39000002
And you'll be here forever Dede. Give it a rest. You've been up since like 3 in the morning spreading your FUD.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124dd1deab8ea9604000002Bride of FrankenberryWed, 20 Feb 2013 09:26:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124dd1deab8ea9604000002
Hahaha! Are YOU aware of how YOU come across? Desperately trolling anybody on this thread who doesn't fall in line with what BI is selling? What point is she making? That women's majority in holding bachelor and master's degrees isn't enough of a majority? How much is enough?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124c367ecad04bb55000016SamoWed, 20 Feb 2013 07:36:55 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124c367ecad04bb55000016
Although it is the PC thing to say, one only has to look at the results. Where are people represented? What did Dr. Watson, the co-discoverer of the DNA double helix say about it (which led to an uproar)?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124ae55ecad043835000003vcnWed, 20 Feb 2013 06:07:01 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124ae55ecad043835000003
The gender discrimination thing is a load of crap. Read the real story:
<a href="http://www.youargue.com/index.php/40bwagegap" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.youargue.com/index.php/40bwagegap</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124ada46bb3f72119000032JohnnieQWed, 20 Feb 2013 06:04:04 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124ada46bb3f72119000032
"Tying yourself to the mast of one guy is plain risky these days."
Yeah, for the guy. His mast is being pulled down by the force of a thousand inadequate cows. The quarter-time job of "housewife" is an alimony scam. A maid costs way less and she leaves you alone after you (consensually) bang (the **** out of) her. Smiley face.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124abe369beddb27000001eJohnnieQWed, 20 Feb 2013 05:56:35 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124abe369beddb27000001e
Just to clarify: what Feminism IS responsible for is the manipulation, lack of empathy, and downright hostility between the 2 sexes. Unsustainable.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124ab5469bedd316e000016JohnnieQWed, 20 Feb 2013 05:54:12 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124ab5469bedd316e000016
GREAT comment section.
Faux-Victimhood-Feminism is not sustainable. Especially in an era when fertility rates are plummeting wherever feminism spreads. I wouldn't want to go back to the past when men were wage slaves, boys were dead heroes, and people were stuck with whomever they stupidly picked decades prior. But I don't think the pre-1950's way of life is the only alternative. In fact, most of our social changes have nothing to do with Feminism, but rather are derivative of a postindustrial economy and prevalent/affordable birth control. Look at Japan. They went through most of the same changes we in the West have. They just don't have delusional movements that breed journalists who give said movements false credit. "If it weren't for Gloria Steinem, guys would get laid less." - no, seriously, this is what overweight socially awkward females tell themselves today.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124a508eab8ea9a7f00001cPeteWed, 20 Feb 2013 05:27:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124a508eab8ea9a7f00001c
All day, every day, even when I'm at work. Oh wait, I'm not supposed to have a job, right?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249e976bb3f7cf7d00001cDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 04:59:51 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249e976bb3f7cf7d00001c
Creepy is as creepy does. Yes. Your point? You do know I'm trying to draw all the creepy guy comments out to make a point, don't you? Thanks for playing :)http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249e2c6bb3f7bd7d000022DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 04:58:04 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249e2c6bb3f7bd7d000022
Fair comment. But the question in my mind is, is she right? Is the data sound? Because *that* is the mark of a good scientist or engineer. And I think she has a point when she talks about the roadblocks we create for ourselves and yes, to a point have put in our way. If the data is inconsistent, I'll change my mind. Of course having put herself on a parapet she is in line to be shot down. And no she isn't Marissa Mayer. I'm not sure that's the point.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249d6e6bb3f7ce7d00000cReginaldWed, 20 Feb 2013 04:54:54 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249d6e6bb3f7ce7d00000c
CREEEPY! SO CREEPY IT MAKES ME PUKE WITH RAGE!
Don't worry DuDu he probably lives in his moms basement and watches porn all day.
Get all the shame out baby, you go GRRRRRRL!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249b4fecad04ec0e00000cDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 04:45:51 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249b4fecad04ec0e00000c
I agree to some extent with your point. More women for example want to become stay at home parents and fair dinkum if that's what they want. But don't you find it interesting that the arguments (such as they are) here are all from men trying - sometimes laughably - to defend the status quo? You say the data is spurious but don't cite counterexamples. I'm a trader, actually quite a successful one. There are many other women who have been successful and it is (anecdotally no count) my belief that it is *because* I'm a woman that I have done well. Women are typically outsiders. I've seen it twice with the telecom debacle and the GFC where herd mentality rode roughshod over commonsense. By far the best analysts and traders I saw round then were women outsiders who told themselves "this is absolutely nuts" while the lemmings (if you want to use biological language beta males) went over the cliff. You can certainly take too much risk and I think your assertion is basically flawed from a biological perspective; I believe the data shows that. There is nothing left field as to what Sandberg is saying. Contrary to many posters' views here there are a great deal of young women now who want to be successful in business. What Sandberg and many other senior women are saying is that just a little more flexibility - also extended to men - can make a huge difference when the kids are very young. She quite sensibly wants to help men be able to spend more time with the kids too. You would think she was a gun control activist at an NRA convention some of the reactions you see here.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249a7269bedde74d000003PeteWed, 20 Feb 2013 04:42:10 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249a7269bedde74d000003
I'm not speaking for everybody here but some have valid points. And no, I have yet to see a reason as to why Sheryl Sandberg gets so much press other than the fact that she has political aspirations. Marissa Mayer is another executive that gets a lot of press here. Find me one male executive who gets nearly as much as these two on this site. It used to be Steve Jobs and then Mark Zuckerberg. But at least they've contributed in a tangible way (large, of course) to their companies' success. Marissa Mayer is a woman who is a software engineer by trade and who had a huge hand in building up Google. I've met her on several occasions at Google and I can tell you that she would whip any other software engineer's arse. She was a great hire at Yahoo and brings a ton of cred because she's been in the trenches and has had to work with other engineers. The coverage on her has been obsessive at times because they often zero in on nascent things. I'm sorry but Sheryl Sandberg is not in Mayer's league. Mayer is famous for being a great engineer first and a shrewd leader of engineers second. Sandberg is famous for being famous.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512497c66bb3f7af6e00000dDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 04:30:46 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512497c66bb3f7af6e00000d
Thanks. Quod Est Demonstrandum. Is there a secret handshake in the creepy BI misogynist tin foil hat club? Would you like some powdered sour grapes with your bucket of bile?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249495ecad04a67d000009DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 04:17:09 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51249495ecad04a67d000009
Fac fortia et patere I explain my reasoning below. Is that really the best you can do? Just trying to stop the gas lighting, my friend. Or at least shining a light on the league of creepy gentlemen. Welcome to the club BTW.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51248d28eab8ea0c4e000016DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 03:45:28 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51248d28eab8ea0c4e000016
Deliberate ploy, Pete. Lots and lots of men congregate on BI whenever there is anything to do with women. You get the creepy "women in their place guys", some tin foil hat guys among others but its almost all negative and more than a little rather nasty. "Someone is bent out of shape". Gas lighting par excellence. Do you honestly agree with some of the weirdo comments here? No actually, I'm just making sure that one voice (even a lone female voice) says actually no, its not Ok to vent spite against women here. I know exactly what the response will be. It's an experiment. The vast majority of respondents are bringing out comments they would never dream of using in front of their female friends or relatives or colleagues. I'm simply here to try to stop the boys club atmosphere where the misogyny feeds on itself. I hope that one or two will stop and think. That would be a result. As to Sandberg, even the President plays golf. She's never done anything? Really?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512484f76bb3f7f949000016PeteWed, 20 Feb 2013 03:10:31 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512484f76bb3f7f949000016
Wow, someone is bent out of shape here. Look at all these posts from DeDe. I didn't mention that she can't write books. It's a free country, she can do as she pleases. These other "creepy" posters have great points--she's never done anything. Has she written any lines of code? No. Does she drive the development process? No. Does she make important engineering decisions? No. It's hard for me to believe that an executive is valuable to her company when so much of her time and energy are spent on things totally unrelated to that company. It's an observation that she joined Facebook only after they were already a rockstar in the Valley and the company would do just fine without her. She was along for the ride and yet BI and other media outlets are grossly inflating her worth.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512484126bb3f74050000012DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 03:06:42 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512484126bb3f74050000012
No puns intended. People are going to working longer for money and for pleasure. Careers are long. Women who do the stay at home thing for a long time can find it hard to get back in the swing of things if at all. And bad things can happen. Men can burn out too. Maybe taking time out to look after the kids a bit more or going on a slightly lower incline allows for a longer, happier healthier life for guys too. One thing is for sure; you can't trust companies to always do the right thing.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124830369beddd70900001aDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 03:02:11 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124830369beddd70900001a
Again equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome. And we are talking about 100% of jobs of which say 10% require a large about of mental agility. Even in that 10% there are clear biases in pay ceteris paribus. We aren't talking academia here; we are mostly talking business and engineering. Having worked in a high level profession with a PhD, it is laughable that it is all about the IQ. Even some of those talented extremely bright men are overlooked in the management process by wily political figures (male and female). So, having given your stats why not pick apart hers.
<a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2012/07/16/women-surpass-men-in-iq-but-are-other-factors-more-important/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2012/07/16/women-surpass-men-in-iq-but-are-other-factors-more-important/</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51248250eab8eab633000018jwaltersbiWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:59:12 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51248250eab8eab633000018
Hi DeDe -
Please expand and comment on this line
"Tying yourself to the mast of one guy is plain risky these days."
You follow that line with
"What actually makes rational sense is a true partnership. He may be "on" for a while in his career and then "her" when she is older."
I'm not connecting the two. What am I missing?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51248101ecad042151000051DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:53:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51248101ecad042151000051
Em because they don't pertain to the conversation. Lots of lovely jobs in Old Folks Homes wiping the bottoms of the patients..The statistics are looking at like jobs and extract biases. Again, why won't any of you hateful gents actually debate the subject.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247f48eab8ea503300000bDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:46:16 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247f48eab8ea503300000b
and yet here you still are...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247eda69bedd4e0c000007DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:44:26 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247eda69bedd4e0c000007
Fair point. It's an option. Also an option for many husbands of working mothers. I know many (anecdotally to be sure) stay at home dads. I think what Sandberg keeps saying is that the old roles don't necessarily make sense. On one extreme, husbands get sick, die or leave. He might lose his job (God alone knows I've seen that happen). Tying yourself to the mast of one guy is plain risky these days. What actually makes rational sense is a true partnership. He may be "on" for a while in his career and then "her" when she is older. That way your are spreading the risk which seems increasingly real as we get older. It's so complicated. I've seen so many men who have worked into high stress positions totally burn out because they have been going hammer and tongs at the career for 25 years. It's not pretty. I wouldn't want that in a partner.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247d37eab8ea6727000021DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:37:27 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247d37eab8ea6727000021
Good post. We should have the equal opportunity to run our own lives, make our own decisions and cock them up as much as anybody else. It's called freedom.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247cce69bedd910100000dDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:35:42 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247cce69bedd910100000d
Take a chill pill. Who *are* these secret feminazis?..Simone has been dead a wee while, you know. Damn I need to read my feminist main kampf again...its messing with my mind. Actually the reality is that many posters here very much want to prescribe what women can do. I'm all for freedom of choice for all people. Including staying at home. And for dads to stay at home too for that matter. What's so very wrong with that? Have you any idea how darn creepy you sound to women. We really don't care way you think.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247cae69bedda17a000019jwaltersbiWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:35:10 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247cae69bedda17a000019
Women are 57% of college graduates and 63% of masters degree holders, per this article. Women have an ambition for a college degree, and more of undergraduate and masters degree holders in the US are women.
I tell my girlfriend sometimes, I'd like to be a woman. Women have more power than they realize.
What if men complained they wanted to give birth, but cannot?
What if men complained they cannot run a profitable strip club of male strippers if the target client is women?
That was meant to be funny.
The reviewer states the premise of the book is that women are taught that they need to keep themselves out of power, and that they therefore limit their own ambitions and sabotage their own careers.
Yes, I believe some women are taught by their own parents to think of themselves as a "traditional 1950's female in the US." I give her that - some women are "taught" to seek that role, but I don't know if woman are explicitly taught to not seek power as the article states. I don't think some women want power - the kind afforded to a corporate executive. It's just now what a woman wants, and maybe that is her point, if that's how women are taught?
If I were a good looking woman in the United States, I'd go to college, but I may not take moving up a corporate ladder as serious after trying it a few years as I think I would as a male. Why? As a male, I feel if I were a female, I would have better alternatives - fall in love with a man that has money and power, and share in his financial well-being. As a late 20's male, after working a few years, I feel I need to keep working and keep focusing, studying, learning to not just learn but to hopefully make more money, but what if I felt I could look for a financially successfully woman to marry me and take care of my financial needs? If I felt that opportunity was out there, would I go for it? Would you guys?
I think the opportunities in that sense available to men and women are still different today. Men don't have a large pool of women that they feel needed by who can financially support them, and men focus on promotion and pay. Women, on the other hand, I imagine as a male, feel there is a large pool of men that they feel needed by who can financially support them.
This is a matter of opportunity cost.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247be36bb3f79241000005DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:31:47 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247be36bb3f79241000005
And yet I should take your credibility because? What issues specifically? What stat do you disagree with? Maybe it is a myth - but not because you say it is. You are going to have to do better than that.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247b176bb3f7614100000cDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:28:23 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247b176bb3f7614100000c
Stop with the gaslighting. Start with the logic. She is making a point and *no-one*, not one of the whiny guys here (and you know who you are) has a legitimate point based on the facts. that's not whining; that's trying to start a genuine debate. One that frightens so many people here. I'm quite prepared to accept she is wrong - but I've yet to read a single coherent router-argument. It's mostly anecdotal, quite a lot silly and not a little hateful. are you all aware of how you come over? and yes I am expecting the usual vitriol. It would be wonderful if that didn't happen but I'm making a not-too-subtle point about the personal biases of some of the posters here.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512479b7ecad04ba4e000019DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:22:31 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512479b7ecad04ba4e000019
...but she isn't. She is citing stats. Are they wrong or right? Personally, being worth $700mm. I don't know? Maybe she won? And what did you do lately?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247942eab8ea372500000bDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:20:34 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247942eab8ea372500000b
While I agree Sandberg stories are a bit much, what is the basis of your assertion? It does sound awfully sour grapes. Do yo really want to be in the same team creepy as some of the other posters? The woman did well. There are a 1,000 god-awful business books out there. Why shouldn't she be allowed to enter the pantheon?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512478b8ecad04594600001aDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:18:16 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512478b8ecad04594600001a
Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. What's so hard for you to understand? When the stats exclude all other factors including working part time, there is a clear bias. I think being worth $700mm, I'll give her some kudos. No? She's writing a book because she wants to. I heard that was still allowed in the USA. Or did the pursuit of personal happiness not pertain to her? Under the rules of engagement, people may or may not choose to read it. Where do you guys get off on being so prescriptive about people's lives? She may be wrong? But why the vitriol. I do wish all you naysayers would do a bit of navel gazing and truly work out where this hatred is coming from.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124775969bedda575000003DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:12:25 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124775969bedda575000003
Again no one wants equality of outcome, just a level playing field. The stats belie your assertion that people are hired only on merit. Interestingly, Sandberg is using peer-reviewed stats and all the respondents are saying ....well, Ive never...There is a reason why many bad decisions get made in corporates - specifically NOT putting the right person, female, male, balck, white whatever in charge. Just look at the composition of boards throughout the country and the number of DOW components which are around after 50 years. I wish it were not so but there are clear biases even towards schools.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512476a06bb3f7af34000010DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:09:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512476a06bb3f7af34000010
Well, I've worked on Wall Street for over 20 years and the trading rooms are full of terrible stories. The data is the data. Unless you have counterpoints, could it be that your subset (as could mine) is not optimal? I'm sure if you look it up under logical fallacies on wikipedia you will find the sample subset fallacy.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124760169beddf867000019DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:06:41 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124760169beddf867000019
Give me some peer-reviewed data and I might agree. No? Then I'll leave you to your quaint world. No one is saying equality of outcome. Just equality of opportunity. A woman may want to be a stay-at-home mum or a doctor or marine. Frankly, its none of your business. This is the land of freedom yet so many of the posters here would love to constrain 51% of the population. Firstly, that's not gonna work. Secondly, are you some kind of communist trying to impose your will on people? Not very American is it? Or did the constitution only pertain to you?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512474e9ecad045546000005DeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 02:02:01 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512474e9ecad045546000005
Your response is called gas lighting. Look it up. Pointing out unfairness is not the same as misandry. Facts are facts. You want to dispute them with facts and logic then fine. OK? Otherwise, why are you here?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247451ecad04fc4100000cDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 01:59:29 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247451ecad04fc4100000c
It's not orthogonal. You can do both. And you can also be a fantastic father too. But you really need to give up on your hate.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247316ecad04863b00000bDeDeWed, 20 Feb 2013 01:54:14 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51247316ecad04863b00000b
Who made you the judge? I can tell you that many women have to work as the primary breadwinner whether they like it or not - as do many men. It's very black-and-white in your world. The reality is that it is often nuanced. While there is nothing wrong whatsoever with a woman staying at home having children, nor is there anything wrong with a woman who puts in the same hours and works as hard being paid equally. No one is asking for a leg up and it's equal opportunity not outcome that matters. Instead of the reactive, nay reactionary stance, step back and actually read what she said. Really not asking for special treatment. The chances are very high that one of your female friends or relatives has been passed over *solely* for being a woman. You just haven't been listening. I've known countless cases; but then I'm a professional woman and have a slightly bigger data set than you. The surveys adjust for hours worked full-time - you did know that didn't you? The bias is real adjusting for extraneous factors. Equality means being able to make your own choices and even mistakes. So calm down and have a think. You obviously feel very strongly about it...but, dude, you are a guy. Get over yourself.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124677feab8eaf97f000007ZorroWed, 20 Feb 2013 01:04:47 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124677feab8eaf97f000007
I think Christina Hendricks, Raquel Welch and Salma Hayek are beautiful.
WTF are you talking about???!!!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512466b4ecad041d26000013ZorroWed, 20 Feb 2013 01:01:24 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512466b4ecad041d26000013
Awesome!
When this "End of Men (who are oppressing the sisterhood)" BS ends, wake me up.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512463f5ecad04dd2300000eNo mention of MOTHERHOOD???Wed, 20 Feb 2013 00:49:41 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512463f5ecad04dd2300000e
It's stunning to read this kind of trash. No mention of MOTHERHOOD? My God, how many women YEARN to leave the workforce and raise families?
STOP trying to make this into an issue of oppression and recognize that women have a right to make a choice to raise children and families!
Just because Cheryl is one of many selfish sociopathic misfits who cares more about herself and less about child rearing, doesn't mean all women should be equally sociopathic.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51245a27eab8eab066000005TechVeteranWed, 20 Feb 2013 00:07:51 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51245a27eab8eab066000005
I have to say after years of experience across multiple verticals, the high tech industry, especially around the bay area, has the least amount of racial discrimination and gender bias. In fact companies here go out of their ways to promote women, blacks & hispanics, especially women, i.e. in reality it's reverse-discrimination.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512455b9eab8eab55900000fi am tired of this untalented lucky connected bitchTue, 19 Feb 2013 23:48:57 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512455b9eab8eab55900000f
sheryl... you did nothing. mark's mother.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512455abeab8eaed59000028JimBob789Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:48:43 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512455abeab8eaed59000028
The above is either willfully disingenuous, or purposefully so.
There are 1,312 chess grand masters in the world. Only 13 of them are women. A ratio of 100:1
Women do play chess. But like in Tennis, they have their own competitions, and their own highest rank, called WGM: Woman Grand Master.
Aren't there super-smart women?
Sure there are. But the higher the IQ, the more men, the fewer women.
Shall I repeat?
There are more super smart men than super smart women.
And, to balance this, there are also more men idiots than female idiots.
The distribution of intelligence among women is more narrow than among men.
In other words, women are more average, men are more extreme--at both ends.
Professor Camille Benbow of Vanderbilt University found this out in a peer-review research, which Ms. Sandberg is welcome to look up.
At the 98% IQ level (mensa level), the ratio of men to women is 3:2. (This is also the ratio in Mensa groups, worldwide, anywhere. Check it out).
At the 99% IQ level, the ratio is 4:1
At the 99.5% level, 7:1.
At the 99.9% level, 11:1
All this is data:L See Prof. Benow's study..
Yes, in college, where averageness and application are required, women do well.
Btu in professions where extreme intelligence is required, there are fewer women.
No matter how you slice it, nature has been unjust in distributing exceptional qualities.
This is why 25% of all Nobel Prizes are won by Jews, and why men dominate the high-IQ professions.
If you don't like it, blame God, or nature, or evolution. (Take your pick).http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124472aecad04676c00000dSay wha?Tue, 19 Feb 2013 22:46:50 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124472aecad04676c00000d
I think Sandburg and Marissa Mayer are beautiful.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512446b5eab8ea953e000001InterestingTue, 19 Feb 2013 22:44:53 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512446b5eab8ea953e000001
"They (men) also are disproportionately garbage men, janitors, day laborers, ditch diggers and other jobs considered the bottom of the totem pole."
It's fascinating how the feminists, when they discuss differences in earnings between men and women, fail to mention that men suffer 93% of workplace fatalities.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51244632ecad044f6a000009You said it!Tue, 19 Feb 2013 22:42:42 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51244632ecad044f6a000009
“No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.” -- Simone de Beauvoir, feminist extraordinaire.
You women heard that right. You shouldn't be allowed to make such a choice with a man who is willing to support you while you raise your children. You're not mature and rational enough to make such a decision. The feminists have the right to prevent you.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512445ff69bedd9107000003LdsTue, 19 Feb 2013 22:41:51 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512445ff69bedd9107000003
I guess the REAL issue is that most powerful women are for the most part..ugly, disgusting looking people. Hillary..for example. And Sandburg. Come on...they know they are ugly and not really a pleasure to be around or with....hence they grabbed the power when it was there and told everyone....especially the men..to go f themselves. Both men and women want to be in the company of a man or woman that doesn't make one rear back in disgust. Human nature...ugly, people suck...always have...always will. They hate everyone because of that...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124432469bedd277e000001EpeiusTue, 19 Feb 2013 22:29:40 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124432469bedd277e000001
How is it that biological factors are not mentioned at all in this slide show? It may well be that the single biggest reason men hold positions of power is that biologically they are driven to be more ambitious and take more risks than women. Many studies have been released in recent years (several conducted by women) showing that testosterone drives risk-taking, domineering, powerful behavior. Guess which gender has exponentially more testosterone? This doesn't mean that women are inferior--why should risk taking, domination, and power be held in esteem over any other virtue or character trait? But it is utterly ridiculous to address this issue as if there is something majorly wrong, and not even touch on biological reasons as a key driver of these differences.
Men are driven to take risks (in general). Women are not (in general). When the survival of our species depends on a woman's ability to stay safe and healthy for 9 months of gestation, you cannot merely blame society for showing more concern for the physical well-being of females. Men are disproportionately in control of Fortune 500 companies. They also are disproportionately garbage men, janitors, day laborers, ditch diggers and other jobs considered the bottom of the totem pole. That's the nature of risk taking. I'm looking forward to Business Insider's next propaganda piece on why men are far more likely to be injured on the job than women and why they tend to hold the labor-force positions at the very bottom of the ladder in far greater numbers than women.
These arguments, besides being excellent examples of cherry-picking data, are horrible for society as a whole. It's one more thing to be ashamed and guilty about, when there should be none. We, as men and women, are fundamentally different, and equally valuable. There is no shame in that. If Business Insider and other similar publications want to glorify CEOs and such over soccer moms, then people are going to assume everyone should want to be CEO and not a soccer mom, though there is no rational reason for feeling this way.
I'm happy for Sandberg in that she appears to like what she's doing and as far as I can tell is quite good at it. But I hope for her sake that she doesn't see her major accomplishment as doing this as a WOMAN. That would be selling herself short. On the other hand, she should respect women who don't choose the kind of life she has chosen, and at the very least acknowledge the very real, significant, and perhaps even primary role biology plays in what men and women decide to do with their lives.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51243ebe6bb3f7b34d000007rotorhead1871Tue, 19 Feb 2013 22:10:54 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51243ebe6bb3f7b34d000007
quit waiting for it to be given to you like EEO was...it requires generations of hard WORK......so get to work...quit looking for the girlie short cut....it aint there......as Zig Zigler said: the elevator to the top is always out of order....you MUST take the stairs.....
good luck...and get to work....http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51243bf56bb3f72847000008LoginwithfacebookTue, 19 Feb 2013 21:59:01 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51243bf56bb3f72847000008
Women are mostly over confident pathological propaganda whores. Look at what they did in ancient Rome to achieve power. They poisoned their husbands. Do not let the women ever make the rules. They will destroy the country. This country turned to shit the moment they were allowed to vote. This book is just a pile of shit meant to boost her shitty ego and put more money in her grubby hands.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512437cb69bedd3362000002I want equality damnit !!!!Tue, 19 Feb 2013 21:41:15 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512437cb69bedd3362000002
I am a guy and as a member of 50% of the population I want the same rights as women have.
I want to procreate. I don't want to be deprived from giving birth.
I applied to sing in an opera as a soprano and was flat out rejected. Utter discrimination.
I applied to work in a strip joint. They say they wouldn't hire me if I paid them a million dollars.
Had a fist fight with a woman and I'm the one being arrested for abuse.
Joined Facebook as an executive. When I treated Sandberg as an equal and called her bullshit as I would have called any guy's bull, she said I singled her out because she was a female. When I asked her "what's your problem" she said, "you are the one with a problem, not me". Right.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512437076bb3f7ba3e00000djamesxxxxxxxTue, 19 Feb 2013 21:37:59 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512437076bb3f7ba3e00000d
Carlson, the popular press, Sandberg have no credibility on this issue.
You're sick ideologues.
It is a myth that women are oppressed.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512436df69bedd6c5c000008Go ahead, you firstTue, 19 Feb 2013 21:37:19 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512436df69bedd6c5c000008
There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics. That said, I don't totally disagree with Sandberg on this issue. That said, in my career (accounting/finance/IT) from large Fortune 500 companies, startups and non-profits, I have not seen anything of which Sandberg talks about. Frankly the pattern which has emerged for a good 20 years in GenX is men more than willing to let the women take the lead on the career ladder. Why? I can say that most men in my age group figured out what a crock of you know what the whole career, ladder-climbing affair really is. Having a career in maintaining employment, building skills and doing something which gets you out of bed in the morning is important. After that, trying to obtain "leadership" positions and titles is a suckers game which most people lose. Sandberg is one of the lucky ones. Smart, ambitions and riding the ponzi tech wave to success. Good for her. The reality for most folks is you give up valuable and precious time for yourself or worse, your family, only to not get promoted and get laid off anyway. My group recently had an open managerial spot. Myself and another guy gladly didn't apply and a very capable, smart lady in our group did and got the job. For maybe an extra $10k a year after taxes she's working 60hrs a week, travels all the time (even though that wasn't part of the promotion) and is miserable. We go home on time to our families and spend our weekends at t-ball or with friends & family, not in the office. You want to know the real kicker? Reorg #2341 going on an we all, including our recently promoted co-worker, have a decent chance of getting laid off by summertime. Worse, she has no time to interview or network because, you guessed it, always travelling or in the office. So go right ahead ladies, take my promotion, you can have it.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51243249eab8ea7b0b000013Righto!Tue, 19 Feb 2013 21:17:45 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51243249eab8ea7b0b000013
Beautifully put, Greg.
Blacks, gays, Native Americans, men under the voting age who were drafted for war, and others have been victims of terrible discrimination in this country. Men and women, on the other hand, had different roles, but the roles of women were no more burdensome or onerous than the roles of men. These claims of discrimination are nothing but attempts to get more preferential treatment.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124305a69bedd814b00000bExcrewUTue, 19 Feb 2013 21:09:30 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124305a69bedd814b00000b
Come on women this stupid feminism its taking you NOWHERE, and you know.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51242e396bb3f7492d000025harryfTue, 19 Feb 2013 21:00:25 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51242e396bb3f7492d000025
Lean in = elbows out = throw punches.
Fine, but dont complain if two punches comes back in return.
Don't get beaten in a fight and then complain the person is sexist or misogynist.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51242d01eab8eac57f00000cHarryFTue, 19 Feb 2013 20:55:13 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51242d01eab8eac57f00000c
Best Person for job.
Great comment.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124279e69bedd303500000fBride of FrankenberryTue, 19 Feb 2013 20:32:14 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124279e69bedd303500000f
"One of the biggest problems facing the world" is a lack of women in power? I want to live in THAT world! How about corrupton, fiscal irresponsibility, wars, poverty, extremism... those are less problematic than "only 18% of Congress are women"?
And some of these don't seem like problems. The first one: women are a majority of bachelor and masters degree holders, and she's STILL whining about it? Because the majority fades? It isn't enough of a majority? If BI or Ms Sandberg want me to get excited about this issue, they are not making a very convincing case.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124271deab8eaa472000036NickTue, 19 Feb 2013 20:30:05 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5124271deab8eaa472000036
Today's business environment is ultra competitive and in my opinion can't afford to discriminate based on gender or race.
Businesses simply must hire and promote the most qualified candidates that they can. If I am a board member and I am presented with a candidate to be my new CEO who is absolutely the most qualified, brilliant, and capable candidate to run the business who also happens to be a black woman.....I hire her 100% of the time.
No intelligent board member looks at a perfect candidate and passes because she's a woman. Its cheating the shareholders with whom they have been charged with representing. The person running a company should be the most qualified person available regardless of race gender or creed. It would be inefficient.
Likewise, it would be inefficient to hire someone SPECIFICALLY because they were a woman or a minority. A company shouldn't have to be ashamed of picking a white male if he is the best candidate. You it isn't fair to the people dependent on the business to pass on the best possible candidate to meet some sort of gender or race quota.
I fully believe women and men have every bit the same potential. I don't believe one race is smarter than the other. I think if you just ALWAYS hire the best person for the job you have reached ultimate fairness.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512425c2ecad045e34000008PeteTue, 19 Feb 2013 20:24:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512425c2ecad045e34000008
Another Sheryl Sandberg suck up story on BI. Another reference to her being a "self-made" woman. She joined a hot company that was on the rise and nothing would've changed Facebook had she stayed at Google.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512421c5ecad04e324000015Tuco Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:07:17 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512421c5ecad04e324000015
Lets see two guys founded google, bunch of male friends from Harvard founded Microsoft. A guy founded amazon. Two male best friends founded apple. Two male buddies started yahoo. eBay was started by a guy. Why don't we have two female best friends do a start up? You know why Sheryl is not the CEO of Facebook and Mark is the CEO? It is because he started the company not because society is against her. Next time she wants to be a CEO of a S&P 500 company, instead of writing a book, she should start a company which attracts 100 of millions of customers.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512420aceab8ea786200001dThe DudeTue, 19 Feb 2013 20:02:36 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/512420aceab8ea786200001d
"One reason limiting the ambition of women is bad is that women are often primary breadwinners"
Come again? you speak English? and are a reporter?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51241e97ecad04eb26000007ldsTue, 19 Feb 2013 19:53:43 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51241e97ecad04eb26000007
A somewhat nice article. It's just too bad, the "gender" wars still haven't stopped. Vietnam stopped, WWII stopped...the Korean War stopped...but for whatever reason...the "gender wars" continue on. From the article....there is no reasonable explanation...only supposition...and "fairy tales" displayed as fact. Maybe that's the problem....Oh...and yes...as a MAN...I can't get pregnant... a female sexist conspiracy against men...yet again.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51241bcfeab8eafd5d00000aGregTue, 19 Feb 2013 19:41:51 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/51241bcfeab8eafd5d00000a
I am utterly repulsed by this myth, propagated in my opinion by cynical female opportunists and theie emasculated lap puppies that somehow women are disadvantaged in our society.
I have literally NEVER seen a smart, ambitious women thwarted by her gender and I have seen a lot of successful ones. Some of them were awesome. Some of them were the Peter Principle personified, pushed beyond their competencies by quotas and political correctness.
I HAVE seen a number of women choose, fully aware of their options, to put their career on the back-burner or on hold because they wanted to focus on family. I am disgusted by the way that people take the impact of this personal choice on "average salaries" and other related statistics and try to argue that there is some kind of societal bias.
Dear Identity Warriors. Our history of oppressing black people in this country is shameful and embarrassing (I mean slavery and lack of civil rights up to the sixties). Please stop latching onto the legal and conceptual frameworks that our society put in place to correct that awful behavior to advance your personal interests.