Posted
by
Unknown Lamer
on Wednesday September 19, 2012 @11:48AM
from the meddling-kids! dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Yesterday, XDA Developers forum users kinfaus and pokey9000 were discussing how the latest devices from Amazon (the second-generation 7 Kindle Fire and the 7 Kindle Fire HD) come with more sophisticated protection than their predecessors, including locked bootloaders and 'high security' features offered by their OMAP processors. Today, the devices have been rooted."
Using a known bug in busybox dating to April even.

The fact that i have to turn to third parties to unlock the Nexus 7 doesnt fill me with the warm and fuzzies. Its nice google didnt lock it down, but why dont i have root access available as a first-party option?

I think that a nice alternative for this would be for the tablet to come with an SD Card slot, and be able to boot off that. When you're booting off the SD Card slot, the internal memory becomes readonly, or if they don't want you poking around the firmware, make it completely disabled. That way they don't have to worry about custom firmware voiding warranties, and the customer could run whichever software they want on the device without having to worry about voiding the warranty, and they are free to retu

Perfect. That usb dongle and my usb keydrive won't get in the way at all. A much better option than simply adding support for a microsd as big as by pinky fingernail. It's like making a car without a trunk of any sort and telling people they should be happy it comes with a trailer hitch.

Dude, they barely squeezed in everything without the SD card slot. With it, they'd have had to increase the bezel size by 0.02um, and the thickness by 1.2x10^-100nm, reducing the Hipster Attraction Index by over 500%!

The battery is quite adequate. I can literally use the Nexus 7 all day without it dying. Now if i play an intensive game, then it may only last 3 or 4 hours. But I have literally used it for non-stop book reading, web browsing, email, etc for over 24 hours without recharging.

Afaict with USB mass storage on the nexus 7 you can read the block device without rooting but if you want to mount it properly either so you can use the content directly without copying it first or because you want to copy stuff back to the USB device you need to be rooted.

Of course, if informed consumers are willing to accept limitations of this nature, their better option is to go with an iPad. The big advantage of an Android, aside from lower cost (and there are good unlocked Androids out there for the same or less than a Kindle), that it is an open platform that allows freedom, the ability to customize and choice for the user.
Don't like play store? Okay, go use any one of the third-party app stores out there (even Amazon's). But why you would want that is beyond me;

Amazon blundered by locking down the bootloader and hopefully they will come to their senses

I don't think they make a profit on it, and maybe even take a small loss, so the last thing they want is people buying it for reasons other than to buy stuff from Amazon.

Even if not locked down, there would just be a small club of alpha geeks wanting to buy it just to get a cheap Android tablet, and those geeks are going to create positive buzz of a type that is both valuable and very hard for a PHB to understand. Whereas the negative karma of lockdown costs sales in the long run.

It's really just a question of working through PHB fear here to get into the zone where the community actualy helps drive the product. Excellent example: the Linksys WRT54GL, an obsolete wireless r

"Even if not locked down, there would just be a small club of alpha geeks wanting to buy it just to get a cheap Android tablet"

A "real" alpha geek would buy a really cheap no-name crap tablet, and see if they can install their own Android mod in it. That or they'll build their own tablet using parts salvaged from eBay or cannibalize the PCB of their old smartphones and mate it to a tablet-sized screen.

Unfortunately the "geek buzz" becomes less and less important as devices become more and more mainstream. Try this experiment (I have). Next time you see a non-geek, ordinary run of the mill consumer using a Galaxy S3, go up to them and say "hey, nice! Is that an Android phone?" If your experience is like mine they will say "No, it's a Samsung Galaxy."
The typical consumer doesn't even know what Android is.

So go ahead, keep on buying your fancy iPads and Kindles and whatever. Keep on telling yourself that there's no problem because Joe Hacker somewhere in Paris managed to figure out a way around. Then we'll see where this gets us in 30 or 40 years when all computing is like that. When politically inconvenient or embarrassing content can be made to disappear. When even the last shards of privacy have been obliterated.

I don't think most people want to control their own devices. For home users a computer is an appliance that they will use for a handful of tasks. As long as the hardware does those things, they don't really care how open it is. To use a car analogy, the software in your car likely makes the air to fuel ratios inaccessible to tinker with. Most people don't care as long as the car runs right. For the people that do care, there are after market engine management systems and even cars that have those thing

What I see when I hear people whining about why they won't use ___ because it isn't "open enough"

I want an Open Toaster. All toasters are locked down and proprietary, and I want to hack my toaster so that I can use it to toast my mittens and socks. That's why I won't own a toaster. My BBQ does all these things and more! I've even built it myself, and it runs on Charcoal, Pellets, OR Natural Gas, giving me much more flexibility in my toast making endeavors. And when it snows, I like the fact that I can clear the snow off using my specially made "snow removal device" that I hacked together myself.

I litterally just bought a Nexus 7 about an hour ago. My main concerns? No expandable memory and the forced ads on the Kindle. Yes, maybe I could have waited for this root to come out so I could get rid of the adds, but do I really want to deal with that?

As far as the lack of a memory slot, that only bothers me because I'd like to take movies on vacation with me... But then I learned I could connect the Nexus 7 to an external hardrive via USB on the go and viola.

Sorry amazon, forcing me to watch ads is not a way to get me to buy your product.

I haven't kept tabs on the Fire line. I did voluntarily buy an ad-driven Kindle 3 (full keypad models) for myself and for my mother. Are the Fire models not similarly divided into ad-free and ad-subsidized lines?

I haven't kept tabs on the Fire line. I did voluntarily buy an ad-driven Kindle 3 (full keypad models) for myself and for my mother. Are the Fire models not similarly divided into ad-free and ad-subsidized lines?

Sort of. They don't sell different models, but they do offer a $15 "opt out" on ads.

I don't have a problem with the sales model myself. If it reduces the price on the hardware and doesn't intrude, I don't care.

Well, the removed the option to opt out. Then they came back and said you could buy out of it... I'm not getting stuck with the stupid ads. Also, thats just the screen lock ads. The rest of the devices is swarming with them. You open angry birds and it suggest other games "you might like" etc... screw that.

I wanted a larger Android tablet and thought maybe the new Kindle Fire HD 8.9 was what I was waiting for so I ordered one the day they were announced, but yesterday I cancelled my order, and decided I will wait for a larger Nexus or maybe go with something from Samsung, Asus or Motorola. For me, any Android tablet that cannot access the Google Play Store cannot really be called an Android tablet. It's not what I'm looking for and it really can't be fairly compared to other tablets running Android that have access to the Play Store. Android's promise of being more open and being able to share applications purchased through the Play Store on all my Android devices is a big selling point and one of the main reasons I stick with Android and avoid Apple products. Sorry Amazon. I love the Kindle readers, and I ordered a Paperwhite reader which I'm looking forward to getting, but if I wanted a closed system tablet I could have bought an iPad. I don't want it from Apple, and I don't want it from Amazon either.

You could look at it that way, but I kind of disagree, I think there is a truth in labeling problem and I wonder if people area really are being fairly informed. It is not immediately obvious looking at the Fire HD page on Amazon that you are not getting a full Android experience. Yet Amazon is pitching these as "Android tablets." Try typing Android Tablet into the Amazon search box and see what is at the top of the list, the Kindle Fire HD. It's misleading to refer to these as Android tablets when really they are a closed Amazon tablet. If they called these Linux Tablets it would be equally misleading because even though they might be based on Linux they do not provide the features normally associated with an open source Linux install. These tablets do not provide the features normally associated with open source Android and they shouldn't be marketed or compared side by side to true Android tablets.

Even more misleading is that, while they are using a forked Android 4.1 OS, they've completely cut off Google from their system- they try to force Bing on you as a default search engine, force their own inferior app store on you you, etc. I guess if you're a soccer mom who just wants to read her romance novels and check email with something, it might be an okay. But, when you consider that for the same price you could get a fully-featured and VERY powerful tablet like the Nexus 7, and for a comparable pri

I think there is a truth in labeling problem and I wonder if people area really are being fairly informed. It is not immediately obvious looking at the Fire HD page on Amazon that you are not getting a full Android experience. Yet Amazon is pitching these as "Android tablets."

Not really. Yes, to people who delve into specs, it's easy to find that they're running a modified Android, but looking on Amazon's page selling the tablet, Android is mentioned only twice, and one of those two times isn't talking about the Kindle. The other time isn't claiming the Kindle is an Android tablet.

Amazon is not trying to sell this to the demographic who cares what OS their tablet is running. They're selling it to the demographic that wants a consumption device that might run a few apps on the

The greatest mistake that Amazon made with this device is in fundamentally undermining the strength and appeal of the Android platform. Android is open, Android is free; You can install what software you want; you can customize to your hearts content. If you're tech savvy you can build your own ROM.
Amazon takes this and turns it on it's head: They take Android and try to force it to conform to the Apple model; You use the software WE approve, you read the books and listen to the music WE sell you, and

You are assuming their goal is to sell tablets. YOU ARE WRONG. They do not care about Android. They do not care about selling Fire to someone who wants an Android tablet. They are selling these things at cost, so the main thing they care about is you buying content and other items from them. If you want an open tablet, they would much rather you buy Nexus7. If you want apple experience, they cringe a little, but say "knock yourself out"- buy an iPad. Guess what, you can still use either to read Kindle conte

They probably don't know better. They probably shop on Amazon. They either found it on the homepage or clicked the first thing on the list after searching "tablet". Some others probably bought the Kindle e-ink readers and decided they wanted a upgrade so they bought the newest Kindle. I just hope in the long run someone continues to sell cheap e-ink readers. E-ink displays are vastly superior for reading purposes.

Depends on what you want. Most people do not care if it is android, iOS or windows. Most people don't know what bootloader is, let alone know why a locked one is bad. In fact for most people, locked bootloader is good, or at least irrelevant. They want someone else to take care of everything for them and the device to just work, even if only in limited capacity. On the other hand Fire HD has nice hardware, stereo sound, good WiFi, hi-res screen, features not found elsewhere (xray, basic multiuser support, b

"They" spend millions on "locking down" their devices just so some "hacker" can undo it all and make their investors feel cheated! Open devices make for a more attractive product, speed application development and make for a loyal customer base.

Open devices make for a more attractive product, speed application development and make for a loyal customer base.

As Apple has shown us time and again?!
People complain(ed) about the Steve Jobs reality distortion field, but I think the Openness distortion field we see at Slashdot is equally disturbing. No one cares about openness (us 2% geeks do not count, trust me). People are not even worried about their privacy, let alone the locked-ness of their device.

And "application development"? Random Joe will buy Kindle to read books (among other things) and stay with it if it works. Hell, people stayed with Internet Explorer