Ecclesiastes 3:1 “For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven”

Many of us who have woken up to the true nature of the organization have a spouse who is still a true believer in the organization’s claim of being God’s one true channel. We may have tried almost everything to try to wake up our spouse to the truth. We’ve tried showing how many false prophecies the org. has made, how it was impossible that in 1918 the organization was chosen by God, how many procedures and teachings of the org. are unbiblical, all to no avail. Personally I’ve tried these things and tried to convince my wife to do an investigation so she would be able to make an informed decision. But my spouse and perhaps your spouse as well continues to put full confidence in the organization. What do we do?

No doubt we are disappointed. We must realize that there is “a time for everything”. If we have had no success it may be time to simply be quiet, at least for the time being. Please watch this video about an ex-mormon husband and wife to see what we can learn.

It was Eric’s realization that he shouldn’t continue to pressure his wife to examine closely the mormon church’s doctrines that probably saved their marriage and ultimately gave his wife the time she needed to think and decide on her own to investigate the church’s history without feeling compelled that ultimately led to her own awakening.

Although I of course do not believe that JWs are the one true religion, I also believe that there are many JWs that have God’s approval. This belief is comforting me in the face of my spouse’s refusal to listen to anything negative about the Society. I do wish she would do an investigation of the facts, but I also realize that the time has come for me to be quiet.

52 Comments on A Time For Everything

Thanks for sharing this Andrew. This story is full of wisdom, I was really moved by it. I hope and pray it will help our brothers and sisters preserve their families as they move thru such troubled waters.

Andrew.
That video will be so rewarding for many like you. And in your situation. Also for others out there.
It goes to show you when one finds a good woman never throw away the bath with the bath water. I wonder if they found the real way? That applies to men as well.

That Morman man had such a love for his wife. The way he handled her to let her find her own path after being honest with her is so wise. He never pressed the panic button.

All the same she was a beautiful dedicated person to the religion she truly believed in. That tells you something on its own, she was worth hanging around for.

I think what you wrote and put to gether Andrew will let people see the bigger picture. Debating about the bible is one thing.
But the most important thing is the pure simple gospel and receiving it with an open heart.
Actually, the morman man was handling things the way Christ would have with love and compassion and respect.

know myself if I am respected it gives me a sense of purpose to keep going on. That morman lady new her husband did respect her.
She no doubt new she could trust him in the long run.
I am sure Jesus will now bring them to himself.

Thank you a gain Andrew it has touched my heart so deep.
Also Andrew.
Applying the tools God gives us and makes us farer understanding people. Of cause we cannot bare the irresponsibility actions of people who just want to do things their own way in a marriage.

This is good Andrew and so helpful. Thankyou for sharing it. It’s true it is a delicate situation to be in and it is so easy to go ‘overboard’ and it’s almost as if we become a different person, one they don’t know anymore. This man showed how do it all in the right way and to maintain love and peace with his wife. I will heed all that advice in my own situation. Thanks again!

Thank you Andrew for that great video and your comments as it pertains to many of our situations. We must show love and patience with our mates! It is very hard for them as well when they feel so strongly that they are losing their husband or wife to “the world”, but Jesus said wisdom is proved righteous by its works.

That was a great video clip to watch. This also applies to our children who stay in the org, we just cannot throw information at them and expect them to leave the org. I was unbendable at one time, if someone would of told me I would one day leave, I would of never believed it but here I am as difficult as it may be. My prayers are with you brother and others who are in the same situation.
Warm Christian love to you…..

As tough as it sounds,we all are aware of the division that Jesus said would occur in our lives when we seek to follow him.I myself lost my wife’s affections,largely in part to my religious belief,I’d say 90%.I would like to encourage all in this situation not to expect a great change in family outlook toward any hope of a religious change,but if it comes,great. They have been INDOCTRINATED.This is a really tough mind control,that may never change.In addition,they have 7 million reasons to stay where they are,and you are just one trouble-maker who won’t listen to the WORSHIPPED G.B.I personally am still married,though seperated for 4 years.This has been a hard time,and I wouldn’t wish this on anybody.You may find yourself in the same situation if you resign like I did.Some mates begin to turn the love-light off,when you decide you’ve had enough of the B.S.My wife told me she didn’t love me for 10 years and this was the primary cause I believe.(she said this 4 years ago) I would like to state something very important about this and I’ll try to be as tactful as I can.The truth and our devotion to Jesus Christ’s teachings…are going to get more and more critical as this world SEEMS TO BE entering into a great tribulation.The nations seem to be setting up for the one world government and currency,the Man of Lawlessness,the destruction of Babylon,and all the rest of pre-Armageddon-prophecies.Brothers and sisters….hang on to your hats…we are in for a very hard time.Some of us right now are experiencing loss of employment,fraud ,family and marriage DISASTERS(my son nearly died Wed.).The world is on fire right now!Everyone on this site right now -is going thru tremendous upheaval in their personal life;as can be expected for anointed Christians at this time.It is par for the course,being a part of Christ’s bride to be brings the wicked power of Satan right to our face…we are in a war!It is against an invisible race of super-intelligent,yet crazy demons bent on destroying the “seed of the woman”…that’s us.Fight my comrades,you are in it now,you have made a stand…hold fast,.I can’t tell you it’s going to get better,because it’s going to get much,much worse.Your immediate family may not make it through this time.My wife moved away to live with Witness relatives,although I never pressured her or even tried to convince her,BUT THE FORCES IN WATCHTOWER did.They are 100% to blame,but its her fault and determination to listen to them.We are going to see mind control efforts undreamed of in historical records;It is happening right now.People are going to choose sides with the powers that be,because they control their livelihood or threaten their lives the Revelation warns.Thinking persons can see this right upon the horizon.You have to appreciate this fact,as Brothers and sisters have been commenting;we have been called to stand for truth….SO STAND!If our loved ones opt to stay within some kind of comfort zone,or align themselves on the side of a political rivalry,and believe this side or that will win the upcoming wars that some experts are saying have already started covertly,LET THEM.Focus,focus on your anointing and heavenly call,it is YOURS to protect and cherish as a faithful bride to her husband…all else MUST COME SECOND.If Jehovah is not with them,you cannot save them if it comes right down to this….remember the wife of Lot,the Lord said.We must look ahead,it’s the only way we can save ourselves and our loved ones in the process.To compromise what we know is the truth,what the Holy Spirit has shown us,by rejoining an apostate religion to try to save our marriage is a blatant act of hypocrisy and cowardice in my opinion.I’m sorry friends think about what Jesus said,”He who is ashamed of me when I return,I will be ashamed Of him”…what do you think he’s talking about? Look around you at the world…it’s flying apart.The end is near.I know you all love your mates,and should show as much love to all your family that you can.But if even those Mormons saw the need to not be hypocrites,then YOU JEHOVAH”S WITNESSES!!! the most intelligent,and best people I have had the pleasure of fighting side-by-side with in defence of the good news as we saw it….you of all people can get this straight and do what you have to do.You are tough enough to take it.Do it,grow mighty,STAND!STAND!STAND!…for the truth…FIGHT for it.It’s going to take every bit of power and the Holy Spirit to get through this…and we still may die trying,but…don’t give up.Do what you need to do,show love for your mates and kids,and PRAY like crazy,probably,we may make it through this time.I pray for your determination to stand and fight.Find strength and comfort here and talk more with each other here on this site.Talk or listen every day.Why wait for many days to go by without speaking to your brothers and sisters.This site has OBVIOUSLY been gifted with the Holy Spirit…come,and often,and draw encouragement and comfort and strength.Pray for those acting as elders and prophetesses here,to continue posting and associating.If arguments over doctrine occur,let love cover it over,be humble and apologize,and back down a little,unless it is a writtrn-in-stone doctrine.Bless you all,and may the LORD enter our hearts AND minds,to prepare us for the work and the trials ahead.

Brother John S.
I agree with a lot you say.
It is true, sooner or later our brothers and sisters still waiting for there spouses families and friends to join them in the freedom of Christ, will have to ( bite the bullet so to speak one day quite soon) and make there way home to our Lord.

You were right Bro John for not watering the truth down.
That is the brave side of you .

But! remembering back in Sodom and Gomorrah thinking about how Lot, his wife, and his daughters were told to leave that place, even there own home. What actually took place?

They did not listen to revelation of the angles! They were in no hurry.((That can be a danger)
What happened next? The “angles” of the Lord practically dragged them out. How loving was our father?
I believe the time will come when that happens again to some!

Lots wife died looking back. The w/tower always taught us it was because of the material things. I disagree here. I’m sure they were leaving behind humans they loved also! Perhaps immediate family members who has never been written about. Sons in laws, Cousins Uncles aunties. ect.( speculation)

As much as I realise how some love there wives and husbands so dearly in our day and age, and through the 100s of years before hand. A choice had to be made sooner or later.

MOST have wonderful mature relationships”. And a real pull on the heart strings no doubt! My heart goes out to them.
IMAGINE BEING A TEENAGER AND FINDING THE REAL TRUTH? How hard would that be all alone?

You see brother John. When one has wonderful relationship like that, Whether husbands wives, or sons daughters one would want it for ever. I can understand the human heart.
Remembering also they wanted to settle in the new earth as families.
That of cause can still happen!

It is so very hard for these brothers and sisters to walk away from the tower knowing everything else will crumble.
Working their whole lives building a steady love of each other, and for a God they thought was in the Tower to learn it was all a lie.
Not only that, but wondering what step to take next.
Andrew said, be the best you can and just be quite. “I agree”
There is a time and place for everything under the sun.

The scripture in Revelation always comes to my mind. GET OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE! Run for your lives.

Our father loves these ones he has called out. I do believe they will know the right time and when to make a true stand for real truth. “That dreaded separation”.
They know brother John the time is so close. It just a matter of coming to terms of losing all, because the G/B will make sure they lose all.

It would be so simple if we had been in Christendom instead of a cult to escape and keep our families.

But the truth is! It is for the sake of the Lord Jesus Christ and his father. The one that died a shocking death for each of the human family. The one who threw away his human exsistance to give us another chance to get it right. Another chance to be obedient. A wonderful opportunity to actually see his face one day.

It will eventually come down to “If we love mother father sister brother wives child or husbands more than we love Our father and his saviour.

A lot of us have walked away already and gone through agonizing years! I personally am still in agony as these people were my best friends. ( I cannot seem to replace the love l had in certain ones) So many beautiful souls still in there.

I pray for them all the time.
All one has to do now is be patient.
losing so many friends right around the world! so many good friends! WHY? because I stood up to the w/tower and will continue to stand against the badness in there created by a group of men.
Psalms 88:1,2
Sister Ruth with a heavy heart for my brothers and sisters trapped in the w/tower.

The video reminds me of my situation. With the exception that I was labeled as an “apostate” and an “anti-Christ” in front of my wife – As I had my wife come as a witness to my judicial meeting. The C.O., in the next month, told the congregation that if ANYONE did anything to help (or even say a greeting to) an apostate in ANY way, they could be guilty of unforgivable sins. My wife of 21 years left. Can I blame her? How can she be told that she can not even say a greeting or wave to her husband without living with him? Is a hug a greeting? How about a kiss? And now, she is divorcing me. The 23rd maybe the last court date. The state of Illinois says that if one spouse changes their religious views and it causes distress on the other – then divorce is warranted and described as “extreme mental cruelty!”
I wonder if she will drop the divorce. I do care for her and I do not desire to see her do something that I know she will regret later. I have had to resort to threatening the Elders and C.O. with legal action for instilling fear of me in my family – if the divorce goes through. I told them I love them but they have taught my family to fear me. Is it Jehovah’s will that they wake up this way? Illinois supports “alienation of affection.” That is, where a third party stands by or participates in the break up of spouses of the parental bond of a parent and minor child.
I am afraid that my wife will regrettably divorce me. She will also ask for $1,000 a month for 10 years for alimony. The amount of which I will sue the C.O., three elders, each individual member of the G.B., the G.B., and the publishing companies for. If it does happen this way, they will have to pay me and then I will pay my wife. They will have to pay for her listening so well to their teachings.
We do all know that there is one God that they do listen to…
I would rather that she did not divorce me. But the leaders of this organization no longer pursue Jehovah’s righteousness. It tears families apart to protect their man made establishment. It refuses to allow scriptural scrutiny of their doctrines. I will do what I can to help ones wake up. Everything is in Jehovah’s hands but he does use servants!
When the organization does start to fall, it may be of great benefit for some to remain “inside” for multiple reasons. I am not saying not to pursue Jehovah’s righteousness. Isn’t it Jehovah’s desire for the wicked to turn around? Ones who love Jehovah can “stay inside” to covertly inform others working on the outside. They can also have a greater impact on directing ones in the inside, when the time comes – Because they would not be shunned. When ones become disillusioned with their leadership, some may react in self destructive ways such as suicide or leaving Jehovah because they do not know how to handle the emotional trauma. Being able to catch these innocent ones and to be able to direct them to safety can be best done by ones whom they have contact with! Being able to rescue a small injured sheep is certainly Jehovah’s will! But it would be critical for any who do decide to “stay in” to be able to monitor themselves and know when it is their time to leave. Think of it not as a wolf in sheep’s covering but a sheep in wolves covering to save captured little sheep!
We are organizing on the outside. For those who have the ability, we look forward to working with more on the inside.
May Jehovah direct all our earnest efforts to help ones to rely on him other then men!

Prayer, this is what I encourage my family to do and to do it regularly. Whenever we talk about spiritual things I always say that even if we lose everything else we MUST stay strong with prayer. Many times when ones spirituality diminishes prayer is the first thing that goes. I always tried to make sure that it was the one thing that stayed with me. If one is close to God through prayer and reading of the bible (which no JW would argue with)God can keep you through anything!! And he will hold on to you no matter what! He will also show our loved ones the way to go.

Powerful post Br. John! Several scriptures came to mind. First, the one Ruth mentioned which is found similarly in Matt. 19:29, Mark 10:29,30 and Luke 14:26, which says: “If any man come to me, and hate not [love less] his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and HIS OWN LIFE ALSO, he cannot be my disciple.” This admonition is one of the criteria for the high calling to be in the Body of Christ with Jesus Christ as our HEAD–a virtual [or in some cases literal] beheading–“not my will but thine be done.”

Lot and his daughters (the Great Company Class) were literally dragged out by the two angels, who may represent the Old and New Testament, the understanding of which is necessary for obedience [“Come out of her my people”] which is better than sacrifice (I Sam. 15:22).

A longing for earthly things–material AND relationships (as Ruth suggested) is the downfall of the previously consecrated Second Death class represented by Lot’s wife who looked back, though she would have been in the Great Company Class had she obeyed the angel–the Word/Law of God.

For the multitudes who have never consecrated themselves to God, which includes the “tare class” [who have pretended to be Christians, and look like Christians, and call themselves Christians], along with the masses in other religions, who are largely consecrated to an organization, and the throngs of humanity with no religious convictions at all, we would suggest for them to: “… seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD’S anger” (Zeph. 2:3).

Some in this latter group will live into the Kingdom Age along with the Holy Remnant of Jews. We don’t know how many will survive for Mark 13:19,20 says, “For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortend those days, no flesh shoulg be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.” All those in the spiritual classes–wise AND foolish virgins–MUST die in the coming trouble for “… flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God….” (I Cor. 15:50).

And finally we come to the point where no more vacancies are left for membership in the body of Christ. It is found in Rev. 22:10-12, which I call the “LET” verse. It says, “And he [Jesus] saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is UNJUST [those in the world], LET him be unjust still: and he which is FILTHY [those who were consecrated but took off the robe of Christ’s righteousness exposing their own filthy rags, thus going into Second Death], LET him be filthy still: and he that is RIGHTEOUS [the foolish virgin class–a great company, who must wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb], LET him be righteous still: and he that is HOLY [the wise virgin class–the “feet” (or “heel”– Gen. 3:15) members of the Bride], LET him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”

After a time of burial (Eze. 39:12-16), and clean-up (Eze. 39:8-10), and building the Third Temple (Eze. 40-48), the earth will be ready for the resusitation of the billions of Earth’s humanity (Acts 3:19-21) who will have a chance to live forever in an earthly Paradise if they obey The Christ–the true governing body in the Kingdom on Earth which will be turned over to the heavenly Father at the end of the one thousand year Judgment Day.

Thank you Brother Andrew for sharing this. You are correct, there is a time to be quiet. There is a saying, “you say it best when you say nothing at all”. If we live our life as a Christian should then that will speak volumes. I do still share “seeds of truth” when I believe they might have a chance to grow…

There has been much said here on this topic by the brothers and sisters. Even though we may not all agree on a number of details one thing is for sure. We all agree that Christ is our King and not any man. For me, I try hard these days not to speak in a matter of fact way when it comes to curtain things. It is a fact that Christ is our leader not man. (Matthew 23:10 NASB / 1 Corinthians 7:23 NASB) It is a fact that no man knows the day, hour or season of our Lords return. (Matthew 24:36,42 / Acts 1:7 / 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2) However for years as a JW I spoke in a “matter of fact” way just like the Watchtower does and every JW who reads it. I preached the generation of 1914 would not pass away as a “promise from Jehovah”. I preached that unless you are a JW you will die at Armageddon.

I no longer believe in mans speculation or judgments no matter who they are. (Psalm 146:3) Only God knows the day and hour, neither the angels nor the son of God. True Jesus and the angles may know now but we certainly do not. YES this system of things does look very bad and bleak but who knows how long this can go on? No doubt Jesus knew all the prophetic writings in scripture yet did he try to calculate the end times? Certainly he understood the book of Daniel. Albert Einstein, a great mathematician couldn’t hold a candle to Jesus. Yet Jesus didn’t know the time of the end nor did he try to calculate it. He did give us warnings and much of those warnings were about false prophets and those who would claim to know the time of his return. (Luke 17:23 / Matthew 24:23-25) Despite all of these warning people still continue to believe they can figure this stuff out. Jesus warned, “So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him”. (Matthew 24:44) Was he not speaking to us his followers? So then, if we are expecting his return because of the bad conditions we see in the world today, I believe we might need to think again… 1 Thessalonians 5:3, “While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.” Is this a time of “peace and security”? I don’t think so… but I could be wrong…

It is true, this world appears to be headed for a one world government. This appears to be the beast of Revelation 17 & 18. There is much talk about this and speculation about the “mark of the beast”. The Watchtower claims to understand all of this and have it figured out. I have my own ideas but honestly, does anyone really know how this all is going to play out except Jehovah/Yahweh himself? How much of it has already played out in the past? Does everything have a double fulfillment as some speculate? Personally I believe a lot of mans views are only speculation and we won’t really know until it happens. I feel strongly that Jehovah will protect the nation of Israel out of the hands of all the other nations. This is how it appears to me… But do I know for a hard cold fact this will happen? It hasn’t happened yet so how could I know? The Bible talks about a spiritual nation of Jews as well… Like I said, I have a strong opinion about this but I will not know until it is over. Until then, I will try not to preach in a “matter of fact way” as I have done before. Sometimes I still fail at this (as some of you know) but I try not to. 😉 I know it is wrong to disfellowship those who do not see things my way as the JW’s do, if only the Watchtower would admit that. It would be a dream come true. We all here are united in Christ, NOT in matters of conscience or speculation!

At Matthew 19:26 Jesus said that “all things are possible with God.” This gives me great hope because I know he does not desire anyone to be destroyed. (2 Peter 3:9) Will the creator of the universe and all that is in it not get what he desires? Can he not change the heart of every man if he so wishes? (Psalms 51) Jesus died not only for our sins but the whole worlds! (1 John 2:2 / 1 Corinthians 15:22)

So if we are having problems with our family take heart, it is in Jehovah’s hands and he loves them as much as we do! His plan is to save everyone he can and I believe he can do anything including save everyone if he so choses! This is his desire is it not? He gave his only begotten Sons life to do this. (John 3:16) There are things we just can not know in this life because God doesn’t want us to know. He didn’t even want his own Son to know or the angels. WHY would he let anyone of us know? Jesus said he wouldn’t! So then, who knows how long it will take for all of this to play out? For all we know it might take a few hundred more years if God wills it. He can hold back the winds of destruction. Mankind has the power to destroy this earth but it hasn’t happened yet… Could he be stopping that? I think so. God holds the cards and he will bring Satan by the nose to his end. Don’t be fooled by anyone who claims to know the day, hour or season and live each day for the Lord. (2 Thessalonians 2:2)

If the end is close and we are on the brink of the great tribulation than we must trust in God to protect us. He lead Israel through the Red Sea on dry land. He feed them Manna for 40 years in the wilderness. We should never forget this. God provides for our needs, not our wants. If we need food or shelter he will provide it. (Matthew 6:33-34) However, it is my belief things will seam to get better before the end on a world wide scale and many, because of the new one world government, will believe that man has finally brought about peace to this planet. Never has the world had WORLD WIDE PEACE, or have I missed something? Maybe I have… We need to be ready for it when we least expect it.

AMEN!!! GB those are wonderful words of wisdom. Most of us contemporary Christians have an awful lot of work to do just to equip ourselves for the spiritual fight we face. We are on the spiritual backfoot compared to the disciples of Christ time. The things that are clear as day and fundamental to our salvation are what we need to focus on, such as the “Love” commands of Christ and the uplifting, correcting, strengthening and foundational words of all the Apostles. Much else is speculation until it is revealed. Nothing wrong with sharing your thoughts on these things, but don’t preach it as doctrine. If you do and if you’re found to be in error, you bring ridicule not only on yourself, but also on God’s name.

Your brother in Christ

PS: GB, I too hold similar thoughts on the nation of Israel and the One World Goverment, but it doesn’t define my Christianity, it just helps ME (personally) try and make sense of things. If my thoughts concur with other peoples understanding of things, it strengthens ME (personally). If someone doesn’t see what I see, then to insist that my view is correct, will potentially weaken others. This strengthens no one, and as Paul said, “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” (1 Corinthians 13:1, 2 ESV)

Dale,
Gracious me brother, that is just so aweful. I think it is good that you would pursue the responsible parties for accountability. If more people do this then maybe they may not encourage a spouse to leave. We had a sister in our hall who was told to leave her husband for apostacy, they were married for 40 years. She always spoke kindly of him while they were married but when he got df for having other views, SHE was the one who spoke wicked things, saying he was demonized and so forth. I’m sorry you are going through that and I hope your wife changes her mind.

My Dear Bro Dale
My heart aches for your pain and sorrow. Our father is watching on and is so happy with you. He loves your boldness and your courageous acts to stand up to the G/B.
Your future will be so happy even though you are going through such painful tests. “This is not permanent”.

It is not what you are going through! It is how you handle yourself in a mature way as you take each day at a time.
Jesus said that is the secret to success.

Dale we here on J/w struggle love you so much. We are so proud to have you as our dear brother who has now joined the real way.
John 14:6
Be wise as a serpent! And cautious as a dove. Take nothing for granted. Just pursue your goal step by step.
Your sister in the Way.
Ruth

I’ll second all the other replies to you, & welcome you to this site. You are now among true brothers & sisters, please feel at home, you are most welcome.

Quite a number of us here have gone through some harrowing times at the hands of the WTS & very unloving elders, & while not the same as yourself, I’m sure that we have all been damaged to some extent.

Please join in our discussions as you are able, we’d love to here some of your comments. Don’t forget the forum that’s attached to this site. Unfortunately, very few avail themselves of this provision for deeper discussions.

A much belated thumbs-up for another excellent article. It is articles like these that will give dissatisfied or disgruntled JWs & ex’s the courage to think their situation through.

When I was wrongfully dfd, I thought that my world had just fallen apart, with absolutely no hope of any future. It didn’t take too long for me to realize that there most definitely is life after the WTS. I made a new circle of friends, that I might add included some who were actually of greater integrity that some of the brothers that I’d known for most of my life.

Dale, that is a really sad story. Did you make a video of this on youtube? I’m sure I saw one with exactly the same story and the brother phoned the legal department? Anyway, I hope it all works out for you!

Brother Amos.
Thank you for reminding us the forum is available.
I am sure some do like these avenues. There are pit falls that are associated with them though that need to be addressed!

I have found that on my personal journey just peeping in to see what is going on in forums can be a place where knowledge breeds contempt. Gives home to bad influences.
People pushing and shoving each other spiritually speaking. sarcasm. To name but a few!
“It is God that makes people grow after all”

Where as, “Simple love” builds up. Wisdom from above aims straight for our minds and hearts. “LOVE NEVER FAILS”
I see this so much right here lately. So much love where true sheep gather on the front page.
Why take them from the front page? Let there lights shine. Not hidden behind a wall called a forum.

I am yet to find another a place where we grow spiritually, except outside meditating on prayer and study ourselves on a personal level with the spirit that lives and works in us.
1 John 4:4 Letting the spirit of God alone to tell us his deep things. ( Not saying we cannot learn from each other)

Yes! true one on one with Christ if we allow ourselves to go by ourselves into the spiritual wilderness with him! Not being afraid to do things on our own with out others around us.

The simple things of Christ are the most rewarding. And the simple ordinary people so refreshing. I adore the people joining us here.

Seems to me some use Gods “deeper things” to puff up on forums.
I’m sure you would agree.. No winners there.

Personally! I would love the chance to sit eye to eye with a few and see the revelations of the father when two or more are gathered to-gether in his name.
Also here, right on the struggles front page we meet so many coming out its so good to know we are not alone any more. So spiritual. So lovely. “Love you brothers and sisters.

Of cause we would have to be real true brothers and sisters craving for real truth for our father to gather us here.
He used JJ for that! Wow JJ that’s such an honour.

Not imposters! claiming to be of Christ leading people out of the frying pan into the fire so to speak. But guiding them to the real way. (Jesus) John 14:6
Not people spreading a false gospel.
Like white washed graves on the outside. But inside are dead mans bones ravenous wolves tearing apart the Simple gospel of Christ.
( By there works you will know them) We must keep a keen eye.
Any one can be a “friend” John 15:14 Jesus said, they are his friends if they follow his commandments. Yes! we can be bad association really on these forums.
John 10:16`
Cautious as a serpent innocent as a dove.

Its true, Fools can rush in where angles fear to tread.
If people are not using this forum then perhaps it is not the fathers will? Even if it is in good standing with the holy spirit. After all it is what the father wants. Not what we think we need. Perhaps the sheep cannot tolerate bad behaviour and cannot face forums.

Perhaps he is happy the way they all talk up on the front page of J/w struggle. Perhaps that is his main avenue to heal the sick from there broken hearts from years of spiritual abuse.

Not only that personally. I also see that they can become such a time waster for most.
All in all I find them unhealthy spiritually. Forums do nothing for the progress of spreading the true gospel.

Dear sister Ruth, I strongly agree with you. This current format appears to be blessed. I too believe it is God’s Will that is at work here. Let’s always remember that the Holy Spirit is not something we can direct by our will, but rather it directs us to do God’s will.

I don’t think you need to apologize brother Amos, you’re just pointing out another way of us being able to share our thoughts. Perhaps it will be used more frequently when folks here become more accustomed to the quality of love being displayed here. I’m happy to visit the forum pages and share in any discussion that is spiritually uplifting.

Dear Bro Amos.
I do apologise if all came out the wrong way. Please for give me.
Just my thoughts really. You have all the rights in the world to suggest this forum. I said how I really think about them.

But again I do wonder here perhaps it may not be working for a reason. Anyway! What ever.
It is here if people want to go there. The holy spirit is definitely using this site.

I’ll say the following with the love of the brethren in mind, with the hope that we can all share in building up “the body of Christ”.

Here is the reason that I believe it is a must to discuss the deeper things, once each one gains sufficient understanding of the “simple gospel”. I must add, that I believe the simple gospel is essential & that it must remain the basis for the deeper things.

I’m not at all in favour of great oratory, as is the case with CT. Russell, the WTS & any other religious institution, but simple scriptural discussions…..more scriptures, less words of man. We need to become “true bible students”, not another denomination.

I’ll quote what our Father has recorded in the 1st century for our instruction.

1 Cor. 3:1, 2; 1 “And I, brethren, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual, but as to fleshly — as to babes in Christ; 2 with milk I fed you, and not with meat, for ye were not yet able, but not even yet are ye now able,” YLT

Heb. 5:13, 14; 13 “for every one who is partaking of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness — for he is an infant, 14 and of perfect men is the strong food, who because of the use are having the senses exercised, unto the discernment both of good and of evil.” YLT

The milk of the word….the simple truth, is just the beginning, we need to press on to maturity as we grow, otherwise we always remain “babes in the truth”.

Please don’t misunderstand me, as what I’m saying is that when each one reaches forward, they will come to the time when they are able to accept, “the deeper things”. This is where I see the forum as beneficial. I personally will no longer tolerate agressive or abusive behaviour, but we do need to, (openly & in love) be able to discuss ANY scriptural topic that is of concern for us, for or against.

This front page, is not the place for that, as it may not be correctly understood by those who are new to open spiritual discussions.

Quote Amos.
Please don’t misunderstand me, as what I’m saying is that when each one reaches forward, they will come to the time when they are able to accept, “the deeper things”. This is where I see the forum as beneficial. I personally will no longer tolerate agressive or abusive behaviour, but we do need to, (openly & in love) be able to discuss ANY scriptural topic that is of concern for us, for or against.

This front page, is not the place for that, as it may not be correctly understood by those who are new to open spiritual discussions.
__________________________________________________________
Perhaps you are right Amos! Thanks for your input.

With Our fathers blessing we may see the forum here take off here. I still do not believe they are used to gain more knowledge. But! on the other hand some need to get off there chests so to speak about what they learn. This place is the best to do that.

If our father agrees he will bless this forum.

One thing I am positive about is it would be really monitored here. Our brothers really protect Jesus commands and wishes.
I do believe firmly that God created woman as a helper.
Its great we can now speak up. Even if we are wrong in the end.
As long AS WE REMEMBER who is behind us. backing us. Guiding us.
respecting our brothers with all honour.
Your sister in Christ,

I think that you’re quite mistaken regarding the forum here at “struggle”, please don’t equate it with other very negative & damaging forums that you have seen in the past. One thing is for sure, if the wrong spirit started to develop on this one, I know that it wouldn’t be allowed to continue. (I mean the bad spirit)

Dear Brother Amos.
Thank you for your love and concern for our spiritual GROWTH.
We do not agree on this subject. But I can see your point of view.
I can understand that people want to hear others opinions also.
But I do I mean what l say, standing on the side of caution only about any forum.

But hay! Its does not matter we will not be disfellowshiped for having different views. Neither are they salvation issues. Nor should they tare friends apart.
It will not make us any less of a person to disagree.
Love is the key to everything.

I do see dangers in forums dividing people because of different views offending. One thing for sure these forums do bring out the real persons for all to see.

Of cause! l am protective of what we have here. Why shouldn’t I be? I love my spiritual family. They are all I have at the moment.

If it is our fathers will here on J/w struggle as I said before! He will surely bless the forum. So! It does not matter in the end what we may think. Lets look on and see what he does. Roman 8:28

If it is his will I will humbly apologise to him and everyone else. ESPECIALLY TO YOU.
I hope your right dear brother. Perhaps here on the struggle it may grow people spiritually for our own good.

Amos, I do realise you only want what is best for US and thank you for that.

Please do not think I do not like getting to-gether to drink in knowledge! It would be the like pure water to me to be be able to sit face to face with true believers and see the spirit of God acting on beautiful spiritual conversations. Finding truths being revealed. Having up building conversations. Letting the Love of Christ shine on our hearts. ( WOULD BE SO UNREAL!!) Yes also sharing meals and a good old cuppa tea.

I personally believe having the Holy spirit, bible prayer and meditation means we will never be restricted if we are alone also. Hebrews 4:12

Having heard about an old Jewish man who has come to Christ is thrilling to the soul. He lives all alone out in the never never’s outside of Jerusalem somewhere who again all alone is being sustained by Christ himself.
He puts to shame so called bible scholars.

One day the web, perhaps our close friends @ families will be taken off us and will have to be sustained by the bible only.
Perhaps falling away like flies, bringing stress to our very souls.

If everything is taken off us, then it will come down to us drawing on the simple tools of Psalms proverbs gospels @ experiences of how the faithful men and of old lived and carried on in there love for our father by retaining scriptures. Ones they have put indelibly in there minds for God to draw on for encouragement.

I most probably have to much to say because I am alone.
Bye brother Amos.
May God bless al you do.
Your sister Ruth.

Hey,I’d like to add to sister Ruh’s comment about the time may be coming when all we have is the Bible.Well that’s what you’ve been using,sister,and I think your points carry a lot of weight.I see that some got tired of the wrangling over dates,that is confusing/discouraging sometimes.But Jesus just gave a sign IN THE GOSPELS,but the Revelation is another matter.If some want to go discuss things behind closed doors that would be ok with me,although we lose some of the energy out front possibly,but maybe we need to do that like Ruth said.And Amos and others are ready to dig into some meat….solid food so as to mature in our assignment/understanding.And that’s good too.Some got tired during the Russell vss Rutherford comparisons that went on.We have a whole Bible we can talk about,and the Holy Spirit is just waiting for us to get started.Why wait?Let’s go over to forum…I would like to discuss in a nutshell one scripture that received a lot of attention in WT;that would be..Luke 12:32 Jesus said,”Have no fear,little flock,as the Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.”Who was he talking to? And is this a scripture that establishes a minority class of elite heaven-bound Christians?I will be on forum,if I can figure out the security part for membership.Seeya.

Ok,sorry ,I’m having trouble figuring out how to get past the Yuku security fence and starting a post,so if someone(Amos?)could walk me thru this,I’ll try again.
In the meantime,since I brought up the question of Luke 12:32,I’d like to give a brief V.P. answer for your thoughts and consideration;the little flock he was referring to there was a small group of his loyal disciples that had stayed with him,so he was praising them and assuring them of their reward,not crypticly(is that even a word?)introducing a whole new teaching that only a very few would qualify for entrance into the heavenly kingdom.That’s it…simple,isn’t it.Now who was it that started all this huge doctrine of the little flock(see the “Jargon” post on JJ’s site)and how only the very elite who had developed the greatest character could enter the Kingdom of heaven?…don’t answer that.But think about it,if we have to earn our way in,probably none of us here will make it,as we’re all misfits and castaways here,and ‘mentally disturbed’ to boot.I guess the only thing I could do here since my rear end is on the line,or back up against the wall according to some high and mighty writers of so called “channel from God” magazines,is try to draw on the simple message from the merciful Son of God’s words at John 3:16…”For God so loved the world so(ooooooooo)much that he gave his only begotten Son,so that everyone execising faith in him might not be destroyed,but have everlasting life.” Explain,please what the Qualifyer is in that sentence for the class,please,Johnny.OK;…execise faith…;simple isn’t it.KISS that can be applied in much of this subject;Keep It Simple Stupid.Anyone?

Brother John, firstly I’m glad you have a working keyboard, it certainly makes it easier to read your comments Anyhow on to your topic. My view of the words “fear not little flock” is the same as your thoughts; it’s an endearing reference he used to describe the desciples he was talking to; I think it’s that simple. In turn his words are also for any disciple of Christ.

Just a little comment about John 3:16. The WTS NWT bible replaces the Greek word “pisteuó”, which means “believe” or “have faith in” to the term “exercises faith in”. It’s quite improper of the WTS to change the meaning of a scripture even if they think it is in support of the belief that “…faith apart from works is dead.” (James 2:26 ESV)

I believe it is just a simple gospel also came to that conclusion that it is only a reference of an enduring word to his disciples. Luke 12:22 says it was his disciples he was talking with.
Pondering a lot on what John asked evening about the little flock.
If a sheep farmer has grazing sheep they perhaps may be placed into two different pens. They are still only one flock that the farmer owns. Same rewards. Same place they are going.
(Goodness poor things! Better not go there!) LOL

Sister Ruth, your statement about the two sheep pens are exactly what Christ was alluding to when he said, “And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.” (John 10:16 ESV). If only JWs would read these perfect words: “one flock, one shepherd”. This can not be more simple in it’s intent. Both Jews and Gentiles will become one flock under one shepherd, Christ Jesus. Oh how my heart aches when those that I love, who are still JWs, can’t read these words and rejoice. They are lost sheep, hidden by a thief pretending to be the shepherd. This false shepherd has tried to hide these lost sheep by placing goats amongst them. The “good shepherd” (John 10:14 ESV) is calling out to the lost sheep in this age, trying to rescue them before the end. Trust the Lords own words; they will hear his voice, just as you have, and they too will be held in the warm arms of our loving shepherd.

May Yahweh, the Almighty God, bless all who are coming to the Good Shepherd in these last days. And may His Word open the hearts, minds and ears of the remaining lost sheep, so that they too can come running to the salvation that only through the Good Shepherd, our Lord Jesus Christ, can they receive.
Amen

Brother Amos.
what you say here to me was.
I think that you’re quite mistaken regarding the forum here at “struggle”, please don’t equate it with other very negative & damaging forums that you have seen in the past. One thing is for sure, if the wrong spirit started to develop on this one, I know that it wouldn’t be allowed to continue. (I mean the bad spirit)

We must all press on to maturity in Christ, & this cannot fully happen where we are restricted to the milk of the word.

Your brother in Yeshua
—————————–
Brother Amos.
I do humbly apologise. You are right about the forum here.
I do have a huge fear now of forums. But after looking in properly I can see the fathers spirit is on the brothers here the way they are conducting themselves with all holiness in the forum. Did not mean any harm to my brothers here.
I found the information quite good and interesting on the forum.
Now I agree that it is a shame it is not used more.
May our father bless this forum and keep the bad influences out.
“But may l add”
Pressing on to maturity is not just gathering knowledge. It is letting the whole light shine in our hearts.
What is knowledge anyway? Timothy writes we can learn much 2Timothy 3:7
But still not be accurate in our understanding. Never coming to an accurate knowledge of truth.
Who are babes in Christ drinking milk only? 1Corinthians 3:1 Paul says. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
What was Paul saying here?
He was saying when brothers see things through there own natural eyes and not from the spirit they were as carnal men. Still babes. They possibly accumulative lots of knowledge! Times dates ect! Jewish laws down pat.
But, its describing the natural man unable to comprehend as the spiritually appraised man aligned with the holy spirit was able to do.
I truly believe the people here on struggle are not babes.
The spirit of God has lead us to this place. He is teaching us all to rely from here on on Jesus himself to teach us everything we need to know. So even if we have little knowledge of God, the fact out hearts are open to the spirit of God tells us we are not babes. No matter how small our knowledge is. Why do I say that?
By just being here and gathering in love and harmony tells me its working. We are no longer carnal if we listen.
” If we are not carnal than we are spiritual” babes no more.
Most of us here have Gods spirit and it been working on building a new foundation in the real truth in our lives and hearts.
Starting all over again!
As long as we start drinking the spirit in so to speak no matter how small of knowledge we are able to cope with. We are not babes.
One step at at time. We here do understand all the fundamentals.
But then again the natural man will not accept change.
Just a though brother Amos.
I wonder if you agree with me. Or perhaps can add more to my understanding.
Sister Ruth.

Yes Brother Ed , this is what our Lord said in advance, along with his words to Peter over the 3 keys of the kingdom ; (I quote you):

‘ “one flock, one shepherd”. This can not be more simple in it’s intent. Both Jews and Gentiles will become one flock under one shepherd, Christ Jesus. ‘

How reassuring the Scriptures are for such a great crowd around the earth . And there is no worry that any will be left out whom the Son calls . We can be confident that the supposed “OS class” adherents will eventually all have clear understanding and many will be liberated .

In reply to your post Bro Ed.
It is a shame so many still inside have not been called
yet! Never give up praying and hoping. We are here. So to many more will be here in Christ Jesus heart soon.
Perhaps the churches will go under soon and they will all rush into John 14-6

We only think mainly of our loved ones in the J/ws. But he is working good in all areas. Bringing his sheep out of the pentecostal church, catholic’s all false religions.

I have had the priceless privilege of helping a lady from the pentecostal church for a few years now. She truly is coming to the real truth in Christ and slowly dropping one by one all of there false teachings.( Unfortunately) she does not live here.

She is seeing what the simple gospel of Yeshua really means.

I was asked last year if l would tell my story to the Baptist church how I came out of J/Ws.
I took the opportunity and went. They though l must have been joining them until they heard my testimony how l was taken from a building of man made doctrines into a foundation of true truth right here in my own home. Lots more.

They nearly fell of there chairs as it was made quite clear Jesus is not in a building but when a few are gathered he is there in their midst.

Anyway there are lots to do helping each other keep the faith.
I will pray for your family Bro Ed. It must be so hard on your gentle soul.
Your sister with great affection Ruth

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