(Original post by Anonymous;[url="tel:63840243")
63840243[/url]]Butternut96, I'm not disagreeing with you about free mixing and I know it is not permitted unless you don't have a choice, for instance at work in my case. Islam doesn't have a problem with women working in a mixed environment as long as she's working with the right intention because ultimately god judges the intention. The Quran tells the believing men and women to guard their modesty, which I try to do when I cover myself and by the way I conduct myself in public, alhamdillah. I don't need you to be so judgmental, live and let live. I feel like Muslims who say things are haram when they're not are the biggest hypocrites ever, look at those ruling Saudi Arabia for example. You are way overcomplicating the problem. Anyway if you feel so passionate about this then maybe start a thread of your own. End of.

Nah mate you're missing the point and this is like the fourth time where you've made up an islamic ruling without giving evidences. Can I just ask you why you are doing this? Why speak without evidences? Do you think you're allowed to just make up rules in Islam? Just answer me these.

I don't care if you do the action, the belief matters. Why does the belief matter to me so much? Why am I making a big deal out of this? Because you're telling non muslims on TSR that this is allowed in Islam but it's outright haram. You're giving the completely wrong idea of an islamic ruling and this spreads harm. you're essentially changing the religion.

So STOP avoiding my question and tell me the evidence which allows women to work in mixed environments? EVIDENCE. I don't know how I can stress EVIDENCE anymore.

(Original post by Butternuts96)
Nah mate you're missing the point and this is like the fourth time where you've made up an islamic ruling without giving evidences. Can I just ask you why you are doing this? Why speak without evidences? Do you think you're allowed to just make up rules in Islam? Just answer me these.

I don't care if you do the action, the belief matters. Why does the belief matter to me so much? Why am I making a big deal out of this? Because you're telling non muslims on TSR that this is allowed in Islam but it's outright haram. You're giving the completely wrong idea of an islamic ruling and this spreads harm. you're essentially changing the religion.

So STOP avoiding my question and tell me the evidence which allows women to work in mixed environments? EVIDENCE. I don't know how I can stress EVIDENCE anymore.

The burden of proof lies on you, I already made it clear that there is no verse in the Quran that prohibits a man from talking to a woman. I actually find it so rich that this is coming from a medical student who says that I cant interact with the opposite gender when you most probably attend a mixed university, what kind of Dr will you make anyway? Total hypocrite, a case of do what I say not what I do. Anyway all I know is hadith states that one cannot be alone with a non mahram because the shaytan is always the third, but in public it is acceptable, when everybody is present. For instance as a student at university *cough cough* or an employee at some place or a member of some social group ect. As I said Khadija was a business woman, the prophet didn't stop her, they were both each others source of support and she was his favourite wife. Anyway this is getting petty, if you were walking down a road and some man stopped you to ask for directions, will you carry on walking down because its "haram" to talk to a non mahram? I assume for God sake you won't, it honestly paints a bad picture of Islam.

(Original post by Anonymous;[url="tel:63854947")
63854947[/url]]The burden of proof lies on you, I already made it clear that there is no verse in the Quran that prohibits a man from talking to a woman. I actually find it so rich that this is coming from a medical student who says that I cant interact with the opposite gender when you most probably attend a mixed university, what kind of Dr will you make anyway? Total hypocrite, a case of do what I say not what I do. Anyway all I know is hadith states that one cannot be alone with a non mahram because the shaytan is always the third, but in public it is acceptable, when everybody is present. For instance as a student at university *cough cough* or an employee at some place or a member of some social group ect. As I said Khadija was a business woman, the prophet didn't stop her, they were both each others source of support and she was his favourite wife. Anyway this is getting petty, if you were walking down a road and some man stopped you to ask for directions, will you carry on walking down because its "haram" to talk to a non mahram? I assume for God sake you won't, it honestly paints a bad picture of Islam.

God obliged men to work. Not women. Therefore if I didn't work and provide for my family, I'd be sinning. Men are instructed to find jobs with no mixing but that's near- impossible in a non islamic country. Ergo it becomes necessary to work in a mixed job otherwise you'd get no money for food shelter and family.

You are woman. There is no obligation on you to work and provide for you family. Rather in fact God preferred women stayed at home; that's why we have the hadith where women are guaranteed jannah if they stay at home and pray and whatnot with belief in Allah. They don't need to do anything else. Of course it's not haram for women to leave the house so noone forces women to stay at home; it's their choice.

However, what people like you (the liberals/modernists) do ... Is that you make it obligatory upon yourselves to work and then you say, if I have to talk to/work with a male for work purposes, Allah allows it because this is for work (work that you have made obligatory on yourself; noone's forcing you to do it and you chose to do it).

See what I'm getting at? Don't speak about Khadija dude lol. I explained to you that at Khadija's time there was no hijab, alcohol was allowed, you didn't have to concentrate on your prayer etc. Quranic verses had merely just begun at that time with the themes "Believe in God and don't associate partners with him etc".

Do you understand now?

NB: Women are allowed to work though so don't let anyone tell you work for women is haram outright. They just aren't allowed to work in mixed environments and neither are men (but men are obliged to, remember). Check islamQA for more details eg we need female gynaecologists and many more areas where it's permissable for women to work.

Work as anything you want as long as there's no interaction with men. But then again, you're gonna do what you want anyways and that's okay because we're all sinners (including me) and we all have sins that we may never let go until we die.

But the main point is the belief. The belief that this IS in fact a sin. Don't make haraam halal because that's a big sin described in the Quran.

(Original post by Butternuts96)
God obliged men to work. Not women. Therefore if I didn't work and provide for my family, I'd be sinning. Men are instructed to find jobs with no mixing but that's near- impossible in a non islamic country. Ergo it becomes necessary to work in a mixed job otherwise you'd get no money for food shelter and family.

You are woman. There is no obligation on you to work and provide for you family. Rather in fact God preferred women stayed at home; that's why we have the hadith where women are guaranteed jannah if they stay at home and pray and whatnot with belief in Allah. They don't need to do anything else. Of course it's not haram for women to leave the house so noone forces women to stay at home; it's their choice.

However, what people like you (the liberals/modernists) do ... Is that you make it obligatory upon yourselves to work and then you say, if I have to talk to/work with a male for work purposes, Allah allows it because this is for work (work that you have made obligatory on yourself; noone's forcing you to do it and you chose to do it).

See what I'm getting at? Don't speak about Khadija dude lol. I explained to you that at Khadija's time there was no hijab, alcohol was allowed, you didn't have to concentrate on your prayer etc. Quranic verses had merely just begun at that time with the themes "Believe in God and don't associate partners with him etc".

Do you understand now?

NB: Women are allowed to work though so don't let anyone tell you work for women is haram outright. They just aren't allowed to work in mixed environments and neither are men (but men are obliged to, remember). Check islamQA for more details eg we need female gynaecologists and many more areas where it's permissable for women to work.

Work as anything you want as long as there's no interaction with men. But then again, you're gonna do what you want anyways and that's okay because we're all sinners (including me) and we all have sins that we may never let go until we die.

But the main point is the belief. The belief that this IS in fact a sin. Don't make haraam halal because that's a big sin described in the Quran.

I hope that made sense dude.

Awkward when I thought you were an aggressive female all along. Anyway in my opinion, I believe if you feel strongly about something then you should not let the state overide your values. For instance, if the uk banned the headscarf, I wouldn't suddenly whip it off because I have no other choice, I would simply move abroad to a place where I can practise my faith freely. If you have no other choice then move to another country.

My point about Khadija, being the best example was because the prophet accepted her and didn't discourage her from working. Her wealth helped islam to expand, and she challenged social norms at her time. She went out of her way to propose to the prophet, something that is still considered taboo. Women's place is not necessarily at home, they're not just baby making machines, in this day and age women cannot rely on anyone for financial security that's why it is important for her to be educated, for the sake of God aswell because education is a blessing. I'm going to end it here.

(Original post by dairychocolate;[url="tel:63856573")
63856573[/url]]Really hope I don't end up working alongside someone like you in the future.

You probably already have and don't even realise it. I get along with everyone of all colours, races and religion perfectly well because that's what my religion teaches me. I don't know what you're point is but I'm presuming that you presume that I don't integrate into Western society.

I absolutely guarantee you that I've contributed more to Western society through my past actions and my future actions (as a doctor). My contributions are not necessarily significant but they are certainly more than yourself and the average British person (muslim/non-muslim).

NB: My views aren't dangerous or possesss a harm to anyone. They're just Islamic rules given by God which you (a non-muslim do not have to accept and that's okay).

(Original post by Butternuts96)
You probably already have and don't even realise it. I get along with everyone of all colours, races and religion perfectly well because that's what my religion teaches me. I don't know what you're point is but I'm presuming that you presume that I don't integrate into Western society.

I absolutely guarantee you that I've contributed more to Western society through my past actions and my future actions (as a doctor). My contributions are not necessarily significant but they are certainly more than yourself and the average British person (muslim/non-muslim).

NB: My views aren't dangerous or possesss a harm to anyone. They're just Islamic rules given by God which you (a non-muslim do not have to accept and that's okay).

(Original post by Anonymous)
There is a white guy who wants to hang out with me, he is a lovely man. He asked for my contact details when I left work and started messaging me. I think he likes me and wants to be more than friends, he said he thinks I'm really beautiful and seems so eager to spend time with me. Now I'm abit hesitant because I'm a practicing Muslim who wears a headscarf and I know if something was to happen it won't last. Family plays a big role when it comes to relationships and me and this guy have had different upbringings and different beliefs. I've told him I'm really busy, because I actually am but do you also think that I should let him know that I don't really go out of my way to mingle with guys because of my faith?

I haven't had a good experience with white guys in general, there was this one guy before who openly said he wanted to get into my knickers when I asked about his intentions. Also, the fact that I am the only girl at work who wears a headscarf, it baffles me that I get approached by non Muslim men when there are plenty of other good looking girls around.

Well if the guy is respecting you by that I mean your religion , ethnicity, background and your sexuality then he is a descent guy !! I say test the waters get to know him understand him and see where it goes but please don't engage in anything sexual. once you get to know him and he is ideal for you then take the next step if you want to marry him as non Muslim then he must be willing to comply with Islamic rules as a husband although he may not be a Muslim seek the advice of a well trusted Eman and ask Allah for guidance!!! Love comes in all forms its for us to work with it and nurture so don't let your cultural family believe cloud your judgement follow what Allah asks you to not what your cultural background deems acceptable !! I wish you well sis !!! May Allah open the doors for you Ameen !!!

(Original post by Anonymous)
Firstly, I didn't give a guy my number. He emails me from time to time using the trust's email. So it's not like he couldn't have found me on there. He wanted me to educate him on something because I wouldn't see him again. I dealt with it professionally, in my view. I can't bring my wali to work, so i have quite limited choices here. It can be Dawah if the guy was intrigued by my faith and I enlightened him about Islam.

OK sorry I misread your OP. You said he asked for contact details and then started messaging. I thought this implied you gave details for him to able to message.

Here's the big thing, he emails you but it is you who choose to reply when you know he may be interested in a relationship. NHS workers shouldn't use the trust's email to chat someone else up either. He is probably breaking some rules. You may reply professionally but he's just asking about Islam because he wants a relationship.

No I'm afraid this isn't dawah when you're talking about possible relationships coming out of this. He's calling you beautiful and wants to hang out - this is not dawah. If he persists with questions, point him towards a mosque and some bros can take care of him. There are many many bros on the dawah scene so he'll be in good hands.

(Original post by pink_pearls)
Well if the guy is respecting you by that I mean your religion , ethnicity, background and your sexuality then he is a descent guy !! I say test the waters get to know him understand him and see where it goes but please don't engage in anything sexual. once you get to know him and he is ideal for you then take the next step if you want to marry him as non Muslim then he must be willing to comply with Islamic rules as a husband although he may not be a Muslim seek the advice of a well trusted Eman and ask Allah for guidance!!! Love comes in all forms its for us to work with it and nurture so don't let your cultural family believe cloud your judgement follow what Allah asks you to not what your cultural background deems acceptable !! I wish you well sis !!! May Allah open the doors for you Ameen !!!

This post is quite refreshing. I love your non judgmental attitude. Those who have the holier than thou attitude should take note of your akhlaq. I see where you're coming from. Tbh this guy is undeniably nice and respectful, I'm not too keen though as the chances of something serious happening is pretty slim due to our differences and I'm in the middle of an intensive degree. I'll leave the matter in Allah's hands

(Original post by Anonymous)
OK sorry I misread your OP. You said he asked for contact details and then started messaging. I thought this implied you gave details for him to able to message.

Here's the big thing, he emails you but it is you who choose to reply when you know he may be interested in a relationship. NHS workers shouldn't use the trust's email to chat someone else up either. He is probably breaking some rules. You may reply professionally but he's just asking about Islam because he wants a relationship.

No I'm afraid this isn't dawah when you're talking about possible relationships coming out of this. He's calling you beautiful and wants to hang out - this is not dawah. If he persists with questions, point him towards a mosque and some bros can take care of him. There are many many bros on the dawah scene so he'll be in good hands.

I'm just assuming this is going to lead him wanting a relationship because I dont personally believe men and women can just be friends-as he says. If one spends enough time with another, they'll soon start to develop feelings for each other. He hasn't expressed anything so far, I've only seen him once as I've left work now. He called me beautiful because it was related to the context of our discussion at the time. We were talking about our experiences with the patients, it was funny. Some patients can be quite cheeky.

Yeah I know about the brothers taking care of him, If he does ask me qs though, I will be brief in my answers and to the point. In the meantime, if he's interested in my faith, I won't hesitate to refer him to a good Muslim community.

(Original post by Anonymous;[url="tel:63882737")
63882737[/url]]This post is quite refreshing. I love your non judgmental attitude. Those who have the holier than thou attitude should take note of your akhlaq. I see where you're coming from. Tbh this guy is undeniably nice and respectful, I'm not too keen though as the chances of something serious happening is pretty slim due to our differences and I'm in the middle of an intensive degree. I'll leave the matter in Allah's hands

I'm just assuming this is going to lead him wanting a relationship because I dont personally believe men and women can just be friends-as he says. If one spends enough time with another, they'll soon start to develop feelings for each other. He hasn't expressed anything so far, I've only seen him once as I've left work now. He called me beautiful because it was related to the context of our discussion at the time. We were talking about our experiences with the patients, it was funny. Some patients can be quite cheeky.

Yeah I know about the brothers taking care of him, If he does ask me qs though, I will be brief in my answers and to the point. In the meantime, if he's interested in my faith, I won't hesitate to refer him to a good Muslim community.

I love how you took the advice of the person who's actully recommending you to have a relationship with this guy. "How refreshing". To the person who's giving you faulty islamic advice and knows nothing about the religion ... you say "Others should take note of your good manners". Well OF COURSE you'll take the advice of those people who are telling you do haram because that's what you like to hear. You want confirmation that what you are doing is correct. I've never said this to anybody but you're just pathetic.

First I came on this thread to give advice but now I check this thread purely for its entertainment purposes.

(Original post by Butternuts96)
I love how you took the advice of the person who's actully recommending you to have a relationship with this guy. "How refreshing". To the person who's giving you faulty islamic advice and knows nothing about the religion ... you say "Others should take note of your good manners". Well OF COURSE you'll take the advice of those people who are telling you do haram because that's what you like to hear. You want confirmation that what you are doing is correct. I've never said this to anybody but you're just pathetic.

First I came on this thread to give advice but now I check this thread purely for its entertainment purposes.

The way you go about giving advice makes people want to run away from the religion. You sound so hostile it's almost alienating. I'm not the only one who has said that.

This was the first post from you:

.."You're basically a muslim, lol. No need to attach "practicing" to it to make yourself feel good about yourself"

Obviously you're trying to provoke a reaction and Id rather lend my ear to those who are more POLITE.

(Original post by Butternuts96)
Two reasons you put a criminal in prison. If he knows it's wrong, it's for PUNISHMENT. If he thinks that his crime was okay to do, the judge is HARSHER and puts him in prison for REHABILITATION (so the criminal can learn that what they have done is wrong.

You and the sister, both, are accusing me of wanting to PUNISH her but instead, my aim is REHAB.

so, you think that you have the authority for judging people and even for "rehabilitating" them,

(Original post by Butternuts96)
Besides her over-defensiveness and stubborness to admit that I'm wrong.

she's been saying you're wrong all over the last few pages, and quite rightly so. How could anyone be stubborn to admit that you're wrong, by the way ?

(Original post by Butternuts96)
she is absolutely ignoring my request for her to provide evidences.

how about you providing your evidence, instead ?

(Original post by Butternuts96)
give me just ONE direct Quranic verse/authentic hadith to show that this kind of freemixing is allowed.

so, in your view, everything that is not explicitly allowed by a direct Quranic verse/authentic hadith is not allowed. Fascinating.

(Original post by Butternuts96)
Did I explain that well enough for you to understand, dude?

you explained yourself perfectly, dude.

By the way, my advice for anyone who has doubts about how to become a perfect Salafi stuck in the middle-ages is to check IslamQA for details

i agree with anonymous #3 he thinks muslim women are easy to play with because we've never had a rlationship, wee're 100% virgin, and because the media has portrayed Islam as a sexists religion. So basically he's trying to de how desperate you are and how eaSy so you can be a token of reward for him to show off.

(Original post by Anonymous;[url="tel:63886315")
63886315[/url]]The way you go about giving advice makes people want to run away from the religion. You sound so hostile it's almost alienating. I'm not the only one who has said that.

This was the first post from you:

.."You're basically a muslim, lol. No need to attach "practicing" to it to make yourself feel good about yourself"

Obviously you're trying to provoke a reaction and Id rather lend my ear to those who are more POLITE.

Nah mate, I'm not in kind voice no more and I'm not giving advice anymore. Don't expect me to sweettalk you into following your religion. I told you in the previous posts; your actions don't matter to me at all, it's your beliefs.

But seeing your appraisal of the bad islamic advice the chick gave you ... It's become clear that your heart is set on following the wrong and having that affirmed by other people makes you feel better about yourself.

(Original post by Butternuts96)
Nah mate, I'm not in kind voice no more and I'm not giving advice anymore. Don't expect me to sweettalk you into following your religion. I told you in the previous posts; your actions don't matter to me at all, it's your beliefs.

But seeing your appraisal of the bad islamic advice the chick gave you ... It's become clear that your heart is set on following the wrong and having that affirmed by other people makes you feel better about yourself.

Pure comedy.

When did I ever say I was considering a relationship with the guy? So how is my heart following the wrong!

And why are you still talking to a female? Practice what you preach! At uni you have no choice as you say, but what about on here? You can't pick and choose mate.

(Original post by Anonymous;[url="tel:63887777")
63887777[/url]]When did I ever say I was considering a relationship with the guy? So how is my heart following the wrong!

And why are you still talking to a female? Practice what you preach! At uni you have no choice as you say, but what about on here? You can't pick and choose mate.

I'm completely in every single way anonymous to you. There is ZERO chance of me finding out your ID and vice versa. Also, for correcting the speech of someone spreading outright illegitimate info to the wider public, any gender can proclaim that said person is talking rubbish.

My point was that you were very happy that somebody told you something that was in line with your desires and what you WANT to believe. You then said that that unknowledgeable person had good manners.

Well of course she has good manners! How often does someone tell you something you like to hear in an unpleasant manner? I could've been super duper nice and said yeah go for it sis! you woulda loved my speech but I woulda been completely wrong. Lol.

(Original post by Butternuts96)
I'm completely in every single way anonymous to you. There is ZERO chance of me finding out your ID and vice versa. Also, for correcting the speech of someone spreading outright illegitimate info to the wider public, any gender can proclaim that said person is talking rubbish.

My point was that you were very happy that somebody told you something that was in line with your desires and what you WANT to believe. You then said that that unknowledgeable person had good manners.

Well of course she has good manners! How often does someone tell you something you like to hear in an unpleasant manner? I could've been super duper nice and said yeah go for it sis! you woulda loved my speech but I woulda been completely wrong. Lol.

Really Buttersnuts? Earlier in the thread you where harassing me because I appeared to be anonymous and wanted me to private message you. I mean why are contradicting yourself? It's embarrassing.

Also the rule of not chatting to the opposite gender doesn't apply to someone who appears to be anonymous is a first! Do you have any hadiths to support your claims?
So if I didn't know this guy and we got chatting online, will it make it halal? Wow gotta love your logic.