Video: The Mexican gun canard

posted at 10:53 am on April 3, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

We probably can discount any mathematical calculations made by the Barack Obama administration after we discovered that they overstated the TARP funds by a hundred billion dollars, but consider this just an extra data point. The Obama administration, including Hillary Clinton, have tried floating the notion that 90% of all firearms captured by Mexican officials in drug busts come from the US. Fox News reports exclusively that those statistics rely on a completely dishonest manipulation:

There’s just one problem with the 90 percent “statistic” and it’s a big one:

It’s just not true.

In fact, it’s not even close. The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.

What’s true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency’s assistant director, “is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S.”

But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.

What’s the actual number? It looks closer to 17%. Only a third of all weapons captured by Mexican officials actually get referred to the US for a trace. Of those, only about half can be traced at all, and 90% of those get confirmed as US sourced.

As Fox explains, this makes a lot of sense. Mexico has a flood of black-market arms coming from around the world — Russia, China, Central and South America. In fact, one of the big sellers in the Mexican black market is the Mexican Army. They had 150,000 deserters over the last six years, most of whom took their standard-issue, Belgian-made M-16 rifles with them.

So why make up the lie? The more conspiratorial will conclude that the Obama administration wants to have a pretext for seizing weapons. Public statements like those made by Hillary Clinton certainly put pressure on the US to take some sort of action, if we’re admitting to being the problem. So far, the Obama administration has not proposed a solution to this mythical problem, but we will want to keep a very close eye when they do.

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Truth is for the little people, Ogabe is busy making history so shut yer yaps.

Can you see the foundation being laid for taking the guns and ammo, for disarming the public before the REALLY egregious policies start hitting America? These aholes understand the threat that armed Americans pose to their plans on dominating us, and they are taking steps to remove that threat.

all the Bilderberger Conspiracy theories are in over drive at the moment

even on Fox, Oreily and Dick Morris are on the one world government side now. Not that, something along those lines isnt forming at the moment, but the killing off of 3/4s of worlds population is absurd.

The Obama administration is very anti 2nd Amendment. As their mantra so far has been “A crisis is an opportunity for us to seize control and power,” so this will prove to be an opportunity for them to seize yet more power and control over the populace.

They will seize private arms and put laws in place outlawing private ownership all in the name of public safety.

Yep, just like their inflated number about how many Americans don’t have ‘health care’. All Americans, and illegal immigrants for that matter, have access to health care. No one is ever turned down for medical treatment. The illegals use the emergency rooms here in Texas for anything from a toothache to a common cold to get medicine. (The Austin-American Statesman just published a story about 9 people who made +/- 2,500 visits to ERs in a 6 year period at the cost of $3 million.) Semantics. Instead of calling it what it is, health insurance, they purposely skew the term to hoodwink people. But they don’t leave it at that, they also inflate the number of those without health insurance in this country by millions. There are many people that choose not to have health insurance; I was 28 years old before I ever had it.

It is no surprise to me their guns come from abroad.
Why buy here when the Russians, Chinese, etc govts are ready & willing to arm countries right outside our back door?
Selling major assault weapons to these people makes it far easier to take down the US in a more detached way.
Gun control advocates are just playing into their hands.
I am afraid our peashooters may not be enough to resist the flood of weapons that may soon bombard us.
Red Dawn?

You have to demonize something horribly to get the American People to fall in line for yet another erosion of their Constitutional Rights. There is only one reasonable explanation for the administration to be spinning the violence down there in this manner. It’s a setup for the next gun ban.

People thought the backlash for FICA was ugly. Watch what happens in this country when they try to take guns. And if the get them, forget it. We’re through.

I never knew why Mexican gangsters would even want semi-auto firearms bought at retail prices in the States when they could get full-auto from overseas and the black market of stolen/smuggled/redirected guns.

So why make up the lie? The more conspiratorial will conclude that the Obama administration wants to have a pretext for seizing weapons.

And, the less conspiratorial, yet more logical, may conclude that this claptrap about traffic FROM the US into Mexico requiring resources and a vast Federal commitment at the border is just a smoke screen to avoid controlling the real problem — traffic from Mexico INTO the US! This way Democrats can falsely claim they are concerned and dedicated to controlling the open border, while not alienating the illegal alien vote. Ta Daaaaaa.

We are in an epic battle between two worlds. One believes in the objective rules of truth, the other recognizes no truth, it recognizes only feeling, brute force, will.

But the leftist world knows it must confront the established order in a way that slips past the radar; it must confront the established order on its own rational terms.

So he cynically says things that sound perfectly reasonable, buttressing it all with facts and figures, sounding authoritative, like a college professor, or an encyclopedia. Yet he lies. He says that a million women are murdered on Super Bowl Sunday. He says there are 20 million homeless people. He says that the US troops murdered over a billion innocent Iraqis.

Who the hell is going to stop him? He owns the media.

And when he gets caught in his lie, he nuances it to death, and shouts down his opponents.

These sociopaths are winning, my friends because nobody in power has the courage to confront them, to hold them accountable for their systematic assault on America, nobody has the courage or the know-how to shut them down.

These are full auto weapons – for the most part illegal in the states, except for the military and police forces.

If they can be traced, as stated, then with our highly regulated system, they should easily find the gun store or FFL where they originated.

The FACT that they are NOT doing so – i.e. Sending storm troopers into gun shops and FFL’s all over the place (90% BS and all), PROVES the Ocrap administration is LYING through there teeth about this right?

Of course, a Logical argument is beyond the comprehension of the Leftards

The basic M16 series rifles used by the US military are not Belgian made. They are made by a Belgian company in South Carolina; FN.
And they are not a standard weapon for the Mexican Army, who uses mostly HK G3s or that funny new HK G36 rip off. Their SF does use M4s, probably made by Colt. Mexican police, federal and local, do use a variety of M16 type weapons though.

The cops are supposed to be more corrupt than the military, so I figure most of the AR-15 type guns are coming from there.

I knew that figure was crap the moment I heard it. But most people have no clue what the process is to purchase a firearm from a dealer. The logistical issues involved in purchasing guns from shops in the US is daunting.

On a personal note, I keep hoping that ammo stocks improve soon. You cannot purchase ammunition in many parts of the US…it’s just not available. I’m down to overpriced reloads at the moment. Surplus isn’t even a possibility.

They are not stupid. They just don’t care about their accuracy bcs NO ONE calls them on it. And when we do, it’s swept under the rug.
BO depends upon that.
Americans are so very notorious for being apathetic.
See where it’s gotten us?

These sociopaths are winning, my friends because nobody in power has the courage to confront them, to hold them accountable for their systematic assault on America, nobody has the courage or the know-how to shut them down.

jeff_from_mpls on April 3, 2009 at 11:19 AM

People who know the truth don’t have access to the media, since “they” own the media!

Out of that 90%, how many were sold to the Mexican government for their military and police forces? They traced where they were made and who the manufacturer is, but they don’t state who actually bought these weapons from the US manufacturers. My guess is 90% of these were actually sold to the Mexican government before the drug dealers got their hands on them.

Pick a target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it. The target does not necessarily have to a person, it can be a law or policy that you wish to get rid of. If you have firearms I suggest that you get vocal now before it’s too late. If you can get one off of the grid I suggest you do so. These people don’t care about your rights and if you think that they do, God help you.

This had worried me, also. I got a lotta guns, but no bullets.
Which is why I commented earlier: will our pea shooters really be able to provide the resistance needed when it comes down to a revolution?
Whatever revolution happens, it will not be a bloodless one, pea shooters or not.

And, the less conspiratorial, yet more logical, may conclude that this claptrap about traffic FROM the US into Mexico requiring resources and a vast Federal commitment at the border is just a smoke screen to avoid controlling the real problem — traffic from Mexico INTO the US! This way Democrats can falsely claim they are concerned and dedicated to controlling the open border, while not alienating the illegal alien vote. Ta Daaaaaa.

littleguy on April 3, 2009 at 11:16 AM

Good thinking. I think it’s a bit of that and a whole lot of gun grab. Add to the mix that there might simply be a feeling that the circumstances in Mexico reflect poorly on Latinos in general and it’s a natural reaction by the left to assuage these feelings by making whites or white-America culpable. Especially when it’s the unspoken top item on the Democrats agenda to expedite the demographic majority change in the US and amnesty will be back on the front burner real soon.

Truth is not the issue. The issue is gun control. The MSM is in favor of gun control. They will only present reasons for this side of the issue. The new media if such a thing exists does not reach the masses of the people that vote issues. It is a propaganda problem. More outlets are the defining factor in winning the masses. Outlets such as this one attract only the choirs from the right and from the left hardly enough to reach only a fraction of what the MSM reaches. You might as well be in a dark closet late at night talking to yourself.

all the Bilderberger Conspiracy theories are in over drive at the moment

even on Fox, Oreily and Dick Morris are on the one world government side now. Not that, something along those lines isnt forming at the moment, but the killing off of 3/4s of worlds population is absurd.

jp on April 3, 2009 at 11:03 AM

Population control is a huge part of the program. Killing off 3/4s, I don’t know about that, but all you have to do is listen Clintons advisor Nina Fedoroff:

There are already too many people living on Planet Earth, according to one of most influential science advisors in the US government.

Nina Fedoroff told the BBC One Planet programme that humans had exceeded the Earth’s “limits of sustainability”.

Eugenics was very popular in the early part of the 20th century, Hitler took it into overdrive and gave it the negative stigma it deserved but the eugenicists never went away, they simply went underground. Much like the Socialist party integrated primarily into the Democrat party, the eugenicists integrated into think tanks and universities. What do you think the global warming movement is all about? It’s about regulation of lives and population control.

It’s all mainstream now, all it takes is a little research and putting the pieces of the puzzle together. It’s so obvious. I don’t know what number the elites are shooting for but Kissinger did a classified study in 1974 that was released in 1989. Kissinger is a huge globalist and wants to sell our country to the banking cartel.

Assisted suicide, Peter Singer infanticide, partial birth abortions, birth control, what more evidence do you need? Population control is mainstream.

This had worried me, also. I got a lotta guns, but no bullets.
Which is why I commented earlier: will our pea shooters really be able to provide the resistance needed when it comes down to a revolution?
Whatever revolution happens, it will not be a bloodless one, pea shooters or not.

What you state here is very important. When Americans buy Mexican drugs its Americans fault,but when Mexicans buy American weapons its American’s fault. Why are we always the bad guys to this administration?

Mexico has laws doesnt it? America has laws dont we? Why are we not enforcing our own anti-drug and illegal immigration laws? The guns and drugs DO NOT carry themselves over the border! Our uniformed officers are being forced by this administration to literally to ignore the laws of our nation whilst those laws have not been judged unconstitutional by SCOTUS. Do the states have the will and the power to override the administration’s decree on illegal immigrant raids? How can we the people exert enough pressure on our state representatives to establish the states sovereignity?

Don’t forget about the microstamping legislation being mulled about right now. And Doyle trying to almost quadruple the fee for a background check too.

BadgerHawk on April 3, 2009 at 11:46 AM

I called Spencer Black and left him the question: “What’s going to stop someone from grabbing a handful of microstamped brass casings from a firing range, killing someone, picking up their brass and leaving mine, misleading investigators and ultimately slowing down the investigative and forensic processes of catching him for his crime?”

if you were a leader in a Mexican cartel with access to rifles, ammunition, grenades and RPG’s from Mexican military arsenals, M16 rifles and ammunition from scavengers all over South America who have old American military exports to sell on the cheap, and a dozen other sources . . . would you be sending people to gun shows in Tucson and Albuqurque (sic) to find someone with a clean background check to buy a few semi-automatic rifles and then try to smuggle them south?

Sixty-five percent of voters say that the international black market is the main source for Mexican drug cartel arms; while only 13.5 percent think these arms are coming from U.S. gun stores (3.5 percent think the arms are coming from somewhere else and 18 percent are not sure).

“What’s going to stop someone from grabbing a handful of microstamped brass casings from a firing range, killing someone, picking up their brass and leaving mine, misleading investigators and ultimately slowing down the investigative and forensic processes of catching him for his crime?”

It is sad that I must say this, but the uniform that comes to my door seeking to confiscate my guns had better have his or her affairs in order, I will certainly have done so with my own.

Viper1

I used to say that I would never ever fire on an officer of the law just trying to keep the law. But I just don’t know anymore. I am starting to wonder if perhaps an officer that demands my guns is actively working for the enemy.

When you got drug gangs using RPG, Grenades, Machineguns, Fully Automatic Weapons, etc,. You know off the bat it didn’t came from the USA. They’re either produce it or imported it south of their boarder

A Mexican reporter asked Attorney General Holder about a Fox News report challanging the administration’s statistic that 90% of the guns used in Mexico’s drug wars come from the US. Holder responded: “It almost doesn’t matter if it is 60% or 70% or 90% the reality is that too many weapons are flowing from the United States into Mexico”.

I’m just glad we’re not really losing that many guns going south. It’s hard enough finding them now as it is. And, it’s nice to know that there’s an available market for full auto and grenades not too far away should the need arise;-)

As for the micro-stamping; one plan as I understand it is that the bullet would be stamped, and sales of ammo would be regulated and registered. You would be tracked from the record of the sale and corresponding tracking number on the bullet.

Another system would have the gun actually print on the bullet as it is fired, tying the bullet to the gun. Gun registration would then be implemented to track the gun back to you.

Most thugs who are Mexican nationals in the United States are very likely to have a criminal record in the United States. Which…..DISQUALIFIES THEM FROM PURCHASING A WEAPON HERE!

Unless there are organized operations paying people with nothing bad in their backgrounds to go around buying weapons–which can be expensive to operate in the US, I doubt lawful gun dealers have anything to do with Mexico’s problems.

Awesome.
But I admit to being a little chicken.
My brother in law about blew his face off doing that.
I need to go to gun-smithing school-under an assumed name, of course. Bcs I’m sure those guys will be the first to be eliminated at the start of the rev.

Yeah, but by the time I commit to using a bullet on someone, I don’t think it’ll matter whether they can trace it back to me or not bcs it’ll probably be the govt assaulting me bcs I won’t give up my guns.

Of those, only about half can be traced at all, and 90% of those get confirmed as US sourced.

But 90% of 50% of 17% is 8%. Thus 92% of guns seized in Mexico are not American. They got it reversed. Although it is hard to tell how many of the 50% untraceable were from America it should be assumed most were not as only 17% were even checked here to begin with most likely 85% of that 50% were not from America. So the highest we get is 10% of guns from America.

He is so deluded he thinks America will do for him what happened to Bush. But he is no Bush or Regan. He will be rightfully blamed for this new 9/11 by 90% of Americans. America will never forgive the Democrats for the loss of 1,000,000 Americans or more on one day.

They are used to cherry picking data. Find the number that most seems to reinforce your point, and then present it as if it means what you say it does. All part of “what ‘is’ is”. They don’t even think they are being unfair or lying, because they assume that everyone else does it, too.
Its what passes for rigorous debate in public school.

“What’s going to stop someone from grabbing a handful of microstamped brass casings from a firing range, killing someone, picking up their brass and leaving mine, misleading investigators and ultimately slowing down the investigative and forensic processes of catching him for his crime?”

Or just use a revolver. No brass to leave behind.

Scouter on April 3, 2009 at 12:22 PM

And, if you can think of it, so can the police, and that would mean that they could narrow it down to people that had access to the range.
But, really, shouldn’t it be the bullets that get printed?