Regardless of all of that, I think an even more important point is the fact that some innocent people are executed due to the death penalty and mistakes in the court system. Now that is a rather valid point for doing away with the death penalty. Every now and then you here a news story about some guy with a life sentence getting released due to new DNA tests that proved he was innocent. Things like that are a shame.

Well that's why I say it has to be with absolutely no doubt whatsover. Caught, red handed, DNA spot on, etc.

I don't bring God into my opinion on this. If there is a God, he can choose heaven or hell. My concern is having a safe society. We should not let rapists and murderers back on the streets. And at a cost of over $30K per year, we should not have to be paying for that either.

For me the problems with our system are not the question- for we know it's flawed and innocent have been charged before and the likes.

But for those who ARE guilty, I too agree they need removed from this Earth. The serial killers need to be stopped at 1 murder. And the Rapists and child molesters too- though with Rape IMO they should change it to two groups (Attacker charged)- Teens and Adults (not all life) and then infants to Pre teen (death) see I've seen situations where teens in relationships suddenly find the boy in prison cause he turned 18 and her parents hated him.

But I would rather keep the Earth clean of such evil, not contain them to influence the prisoners who CAN be rehabilitated for lesser crimes.

But then I also firmly believe that our "safety" programs are part of the worlds problem. We've allowed it so that terminally stupid people can breed Natural selection can't do it's thing. And these people then find themselves in positions of influence.

But for those who feel the evil people should be spared I must ask: would you feel the same if the person in question murdered your most loved in your life, and not just causally either, but brutally, slowly, and agonizingly painfully?

These are my ponders on this delicate topic. No disrespect to any of you my friends :D_________________-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
-
-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast

Just wanted to put this out there for those who are interested in the biblical view: what about the verse that says that men will reap what they sow? If they sow death, I believe that means they should reap it. Just thought I'd throw that out there. _________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.

Those without swords can still die upon them

The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.

Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:21 pm

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7121Location: Sailing into the unknown

illogicalRogue2 wrote:

But for those who feel the evil people should be spared I must ask: would you feel the same if the person in question murdered your most loved in your life, and not just causally either, but brutally, slowly, and agonizingly painfully?

I would absolutley want them killed slowly and painfully, preferably at my hand, but the thing is I wouldn't be in the right state of mind. Now that I'm in my right state of mind, I'm dead against it. It would be like asking a person who is high accidentally about drug laws.

And, Padme, while we're at it, today I was doing some reading in Matthew and I came across a story Jesus was telling to, I believe, Paul. He was saying about how a king pardoned a man from his million dollar debt out of sympathy and then the same person rejected a man with a hundred dollar debt. The king sent the man he had pardoned to jail and said, "How could you not show mercy, when I showed mercy to you!?"

Sound familiar? _________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

And, Padme, while we're at it, today I was doing some reading in Matthew and I came across a story Jesus was telling to, I believe, Paul. He was saying about how a king pardoned a man from his million dollar debt out of sympathy and then the same person rejected a man with a hundred dollar debt. The king sent the man he had pardoned to jail and said, "How could you not show mercy, when I showed mercy to you!?"

Sound familiar?

Indeed. God is a God of mercy. And His mercy to a murderer is that if the person repents of what he has done and believes on Jesus, God will still accept him into Heaven. But the consequence of his crime will still stand.

But really, it's not about what any of us thinks, it's about what God commands. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made He man."_________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.

Those without swords can still die upon them

The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:24 am

Message

Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6658Location: Missouri

Let's say the US did away with the Death Penalty, and our worst punishment was a life sentence. Each of those lifers cost money to be kept away. Thus an increase in costs which will chew up a larger portion of tax money.

Now here is the other side of that coin. That money that is now being devoted to an increase in prisoners could have been used for other things: say healthcare.

So, what if the choice came down to that: abolishing the death penalty, or spending more money to help those not convicted of serious crimes (which earn life sentences)?

It's easy enough to say that if you're boiling it down to a money problem, you're removing the human element of the situation, that by killing these people you are no better than them. But the bigger picture can also reveal that these convicts are hurting people even when they're in jail.

I will concede though that money should not be the ultimate deciding factor in this issue. Thus I think my main staying point is that I think there are crimes deserving of the death penalty, and that we are within our rights as sensible citizen, or faithful followers of God, by using such a form of punishment. My only reservation is that we do so responsibly._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:53 am

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7121Location: Sailing into the unknown

Those are good points, Skuldren, I never thought about it that way. I'll think some more about that.

Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:

Reepicheep wrote:

And, Padme, while we're at it, today I was doing some reading in Matthew and I came across a story Jesus was telling to, I believe, Paul. He was saying about how a king pardoned a man from his million dollar debt out of sympathy and then the same person rejected a man with a hundred dollar debt. The king sent the man he had pardoned to jail and said, "How could you not show mercy, when I showed mercy to you!?"

Sound familiar?

Indeed. God is a God of mercy. And His mercy to a murderer is that if the person repents of what he has done and believes on Jesus, God will still accept him into Heaven. But the consequence of his crime will still stand.

But really, it's not about what any of us thinks, it's about what God commands. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made He man."

I think I'm going to zip it soon, because we both are well-grounded in our views, but until then...
The story Jesus was telling was to humans and how they should mirror God's mercy by showing mercy to other humans. He wasn't just saying God is merciful, he was telling us how we should act. I know very well what God commands and, I believe, his command of mercy has been updated since Jesus came. Jesus spared us from death so when He asks us to act like him and show mercy, wouldn't it make sense to spare others from death. And, if you think about it, we all are nasty little sinners and all probably deserve death, yet Jesus saved us._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

I think I'm going to zip it soon, because we both are well-grounded in our views, but until then...
The story Jesus was telling was to humans and how they should mirror God's mercy by showing mercy to other humans. He wasn't just saying God is merciful, he was telling us how we should act. I know very well what God commands and, I believe, his command of mercy has been updated since Jesus came. Jesus spared us from death so when He asks us to act like him and show mercy, wouldn't it make sense to spare others from death. And, if you think about it, we all are nasty little sinners and all probably deserve death, yet Jesus saved us.

Well, I don't think God's commands get "updated", as you put it. I mean, God is everlasting and eternal. He doesn't just decide one day that one of his previous commands doesn't count anymore. And we all most definitely deserve eternal death. Jesus took our punishment. But we still will reap the consequences of the sins we commit on this earth.

But, anyway, we could probably go on for days on this subject. I'm just going to have to refer you to the verse I quoted a couple of posts up. That's what the Bible says about it. God instituted the punishment for death and that's where my stance on the matter comes from. I think I'm going to have to leave it at that._________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

:D_________________-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
-
-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast

I have a feeling Obi-Wan and Anakin would be on opposite sides of the issue. _________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.

Those without swords can still die upon them

The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:11 pm

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7121Location: Sailing into the unknown

Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:

Well, I don't think God's commands get "updated", as you put it. I mean, God is everlasting and eternal. He doesn't just decide one day that one of his previous commands doesn't count anymore. And we all most definitely deserve eternal death. Jesus took our punishment. But we still will reap the consequences of the sins we commit on this earth.

But, anyway, we could probably go on for days on this subject. I'm just going to have to refer you to the verse I quoted a couple of posts up. That's what the Bible says about it. God instituted the punishment for death and that's where my stance on the matter comes from. I think I'm going to have to leave it at that.

A good exmple of "updating" (poor choice of words I know) is God's law that whoever sins will die. The consequences still needed to be fulfilled, it just wasn't what anyone would have thought.

But anyway, this has come to a matter of interperatation and is resembling a game of Ping Pong more and more, so like you said we'll call it a draw. Good debate. *extends hand*_________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

But anyway, this has come to a matter of interperatation and is resembling a game of Ping Pong more and more, so like you said we'll call it a draw. Good debate. *extends hand*

*shakes hand* Yup, good debate. I always enjoy this type of thing. Kinda makes you stop and think about why you believe what you believe. _________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.

Those without swords can still die upon them

The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.

Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:58 am

Message

Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6658Location: Missouri

Here's one for you Reep, what if Emperor Palpatine was on trial, would you opt for a life sentence or the death penalty?

(As you can see, I decided against putting Satine on trial as we already know how that would go)_________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:29 pm

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7121Location: Sailing into the unknown

Well, Palpz is evil so..._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.