The climate change flip flop. No more winters, no more summers... whatever!

Again - I said NOTHING about CO2. I do not wish to talk about CO2. I frankly do not give a flying poop about CO2. I am concerned about the millions of
people, children and families who are being destroyed by the very real effects of climate change while a bunch of self-righteous, self-absorbed
bleeding idiots want to jerk each other off using sophistry lotion.

Again - I said NOTHING about CO2. I do not wish to talk about CO2. I frankly do not give a flying poop about CO2. I am concerned about the
millions of people, children and families who are being destroyed by the very real effects of climate change while a bunch of self-righteous,
self-absorbed bleeding idiots want to jerk each other off using sophistry lotion.

Okay, fine.

But then why this argumentative post with the OP:

Tell ya what. Go live on a beach in the Philippines for a year and then get back to me.

Oh yeah, read their newspapers and their articles on climate change too. Get to know a few of the people who are terrified for their lives and their
children's lives. Talk to them about how things have or haven't changed. Maybe share your food with them 'cuz they've lost even their ability to
subsist.

If all the OP did was point out the failings of past AGW claims ?

It's because the OP made the same mistake that so many people make nowadays with this subject... he/she confused the term "climate change" with
"AGW" with his/her thread title.

I'm willing to bet my paycheque that the OP wasn't actually denying "climate change", but was in fact just simply making fun of the ridiculous AGW
claims of the past.

And thus, confusion reigned from the get-go with this thread... all because the OP failed to use the correct terminology... Most likely because the
sources they linked to did too.

The climate is changing, all over the world and it has been, forever. Let's just remember that during the Dark Ages there was a very long period
where Earth was warmer than it is now. It's natural cycles.

yup, i completely agree, and i would love it if that particularly infamous CRU (climategate anyone?) would stop messing with the figures, hiding the
decline, compensating for warming, etc.

just the facts please. there is nothing to suggest that our planet isn't on it's natural warming/cooling cycle. pollution needs to be curtailed for
environmental reasons, but co2 is the least of our worries.

Does it really matter if it's "climate change" or "global warming"? ...People are still dying, and nobody is doing anything constructive about
the real problem. Just going round and round supporting the same ol' opportunistic profit model - oil, windmills, doesn't matter as long as it makes
money. And forget the little guys - they don't have the cash to play.

Again - I said NOTHING about CO2. I do not wish to talk about CO2. I frankly do not give a flying poop about CO2. I am concerned about the millions of
people, children and families who are being destroyed by the very real effects of climate change while a bunch of self-righteous, self-absorbed
bleeding idiots want to jerk each other off using sophistry lotion.

What are you talking about? Climate change has been occurring ever since the beginning of man so has natural disasters. So how can you blame others in
your condemnation. The climate will continue to change flooding storms and this is not really the point of the thread. The point is that scientists
have been moving the goal posts for decades. The op didnt make this up its a fact. If we have less hurricanes its because of climate change if we have
more its because climate change. If the ice melts in the arctic its because climate change if the antarctic ice increases its because climate change.
This climate change has been going on since earth was created the problem becomes there is absolutely no proof we are affecting it with so many
variables involved. I dont doubt we impact the planet but to what extent is the key.

This very well could be a natural cycle when you look at ice cores it indeed looks that way but ice cores look at thousands of years not just the last
hundred years. If people are scared its because scientists have these doom and gloom predictions that have proven over and over to be wrong making
them move those goal posts. I think everyone needs to step back reassess this whole matter but it wont happen because now there is to much money
involved! If you want to stop the fear simple stop accepting computer models on climate change as fact since not one has proven to be right.

Does it really matter if it's "climate change" or "global warming"? ...People are still dying, and nobody is doing anything constructive about
the real problem. Just going round and round supporting the same ol' opportunistic profit model - oil, windmills, doesn't matter as long as it makes
money. And forget the little guys - they don't have the cash to play.

/rant

If it's naturally occurring "climate change", then there's not a damn thing we can do about it other than to mitigate ourselves and figuring out
ways to adapt to the changes.

If it's "manmade global warming" then we can mitigate changes to how we live our lives and our dependency on fossil fuels spewing out CO2.

But even if none of the above was actually happening anyway, we should still be mitigating ourselves to clean up our act for the sake of ourselves,
the other species we share this planet with, and for the sake of future generations. Which is a completely different subject and has nothing to do
with climate change or AGW.

And you're right... not a damn thing is being done in any of the above three subjects.

We should be making changes in all three areas no matter what, it's just plain common sense.

But that's the irony... common sense isn't common at all when you're talking about the human race.

I said NOTHING about CO2. I do not wish to talk about CO2. I frankly do not give a flying poop about CO2.

That's all fine, but it then begs the question of what you want done about the disasters?

The OP was predicated based on (as was correctly pointed out to me) the theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming, which is exclusively concerned with
carbon dioxide levels. Thus my assumption that by responding to a post which specified AGW specifically and therefore carbon dioxide levels
implicitly, you were blaming carbon dioxide levels for the problems.

AGW or Climate Change does not address anything else. Ergo, if one blames AGW for the disasters you referenced, one is blaming carbon dioxide levels.
If you have another culprit in mind, I'd love to hear your theory.

we should still be mitigating ourselves to clean up our act for the sake of ourselves, the other species we share this planet with, and for the sake
of future generations. Which is a completely different subject and has nothing to do with climate change or AGW.

And you're right... not a damn thing is being done in any of the above three subjects.

We should be making changes in all three areas no matter what, it's just plain common sense.

In that respect I agree with you completely. The furor over carbon dioxide has had one (I believe desired) effect: it takes the spotlight off the real
problems.

But when we are talking about typhoons, what can be done? The things have been around since before mankind ever figured out something to argue about,
and we still have no means of controlling them. We don't even have a good working theory of how it could be accomplished. Until we do, there is
nothing I know of that can be done.

We also cannot prevent earthquakes, tornadoes, volcanoes, or tsunamis.

...when we are talking about typhoons, what can be done? ...we still have no means of controlling them. ...there is nothing I know of that can
be done.

Maybe instead of thinking about controlling the beasts of our world (typhoons and other demons) and making war on them, we could think about
respecting them and their power, and consider how to live in harmony with them. In the case of typhoons that have changed their patterns and
intensity we might consider how and where to relocate people who are now so much more threatened than they were before. [I have the same take on
prions and prion diseases btw.

]

PS. RE: "The furor over carbon dioxide has had one (I believe desired) effect: it takes the spotlight off the real problems."

...when we are talking about typhoons, what can be done? ...we still have no means of controlling them. ...there is nothing I know of that can
be done.

Maybe instead of thinking about controlling the beasts of our world (typhoons and other demons) and making war on them, we could think about
respecting them and their power, and consider how to live in harmony with them. In the case of typhoons that have changed their patterns and
intensity we might consider how and where to relocate people who are now so much more threatened than they were before. [I have the same take on
prions and prion diseases btw.

]

PS. RE: "The furor over carbon dioxide has had one (I believe desired) effect: it takes the spotlight off the real problems."

YES! Exactly. (Should have put this first. Sorry.)

edit on 15/12/13 by soficrow because: (no reason given)

Do you mean by not having entire cities built below sea level ive often thought that rebuilding time and again was a waste.

tothetenthpower
Let's just remember that during the Dark Ages there was a very long period where Earth was warmer than it is now.

It's natural cycles.

~Tenth

That's really interesting actually, I wonder if there is any correlation. I noticed many years ago that the most advanced civilizations come from
cold climates, and always felt it was just a matter of people without forward planning dying off and leaving the smarter people to breed. Obviously
to survive in Northern Europe and Mongolia during the winter you have to plan ahead.

In tropical climates little forward planning is required and you tend to see that in the local population (I live in Florida and I'm also somewhat
guilty). Modern technology and assistance/benefits has removed the selection element, but you still tend to see a lot more high technology business
endeavors come from the higher lattitudes.

So about the dark ages correlation, a much warmer climate in Europe perhaps could have upset the natural order of millenia, as well as allowing for
people to support themselves easier and turn their back on the traditional power structures. Or also just led to more chaos. Could the fall of Rome
be linked to a shrinking dependence on the Roman trade network due to warmer climates?

However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David
Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become
"a very rare and exciting event".

"So one of the consequences of a warming ocean near a coastline like the East Coast and Washington, D.C., for instance, is that you can get
dumped on with more snow partly as a consequence of global warming," he says.

Whatever works, just make it up as we go along. Seems to work on every other issue.

Regardless, we definitely need global carbon taxes and carbon credits to be traded on exchanges with profits going to investors and commissions paid
to the banksters.

I would really like people to think about what theyre saying with this 'sky is falling' crap. Just cuz a few scientists on the tptb payroll say it
is so doesn't. The logic is against it. Are we responsible for the uptick in active volcanoes, earthquakes and solar flares? Go over the historical
records. 95% of the high/low records were set prior to 1940. Maybe, just maybe, its a natural thing with the earth.

They're on different continents, separated by several thousand miles and have completely different weather systems. There's no flip flopping going on,
predictions from 30 years ago are still highly accurate.

TheRedneck

That's WARMING, not cooling. The term "Climate Change" was coined when observations, even given the horribly inaccurate sensors used and extremely
biased models implemented, could not agree with the predictions. Ergo, I still call it "Global Warming" in opposition to the propaganda deployment.

No it was coined as the theory developed and evidence proved that CO2 isn't the only greenhouse gas and the effects of increased CO2 have various
knock on effects with some areas of the globe rapidly warming and others being plunged into mini ice ages.

It's how science works. The only people arguing against AGW are scientists on big oil payroll, it's an established fact amongst all other
Climatologists.

Climate always changes, but people who are trying to make it seems like something that is exclusively mankind's fault this time ... well, that's the
conspiracy.

The kind of climate change we are seeing right now usually would occur over hundreds, if not thousands, of years. This is all happening within the
past few years. Oh, by the way. I'm not on the carbon bandwagon. I believe this is caused by methane release and yes, partially it is man's fault.
We are a contributor.

Like I said - go live there, talk to people about how things used to be, and how -and how much- the weather patterns and crazy storms have changed.
Just because you haven't experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

PS. Those of us living in the middle of large continents -or protected by relative wealth- have the luxury of ignoring or denying the effects of
climate change. Filipinos can't. It's already killing them and their children. Either outright, or by slow starvation.

edit on 15/12/13 by soficrow because: to add PS

You nail it all on the head. If it's not destroying the sanctity of their own home, they just don't care. They can easily turn a blind eye and act
as if nothing is happening. That's how people have become...they just want to live in their luxuries and not be bothered. Until a storm comes along
and rips their own home apart or kills one of their own children, they shall remain ignorant!

soficrow
Maybe instead of thinking about controlling the beasts of our world (typhoons and other demons) and making war on them, we could think about
respecting them and their power, and consider how to live in harmony with them.

They exist. They always have, and they always will. The good news is, they don't sneak up on anyone. We have warning systems in place and they
tell people days in advance "Hey! A really big storm is coming, you might want to get out of the way!"

Perhaps you should be fighting for a louder set of speakers for the public address system.

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.