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The problem here is both of you guys are stubborn as heck and neither of you wants to respect the others right to have an opinion. We all live in different regions and none of us can truly understand all of the conditions the others are working under. I’m sure everyone knows where Duck stands on giving advice to DIYs and I’m sure everyone knows where Rick stands on giving advice to DIYs. I’m not sure it needs to be reiterated on an hourly basis.

Mark

It's been mentioned that the opinion on DIY here is mixed, some do, some don't.Truth be known, the majority of plumbers won't offer DIY info, here they tend to leave quickly..often at the suggestion of certain members.

It's one thing to offer a fella a quick tutorial on how to replace the stems on his lav faucet in person, I do it too.

It's another thing altogether to endorse the large scale proliferation of free advice given out in bulk rate on a public forum.

THIS is my concern.

What appears to be innocent & harmless actually adds up as the internet becomes more and more inundated with these forums.

Suddenly "innocent & harmless" is happening in mass quantity.

The prevailing attitude with most who offer the info is that it's not going to hurt anyone, or that these requests are coming from financially challenged homeowners.

An unlicensed hack looking for info to do what he shouldn't be doing will tell you he's a helpless homeowner on a fixed income, unless we're under the assumption that ALL on the internet are honest.

In the big picture, there are tens of thousands of requests online over the course of any given week.A homeowner thats financially challenged, yet owns a PC and has internet access?

Barring the semantics, if I didn't have to spend so much time on the phone listening to people attempt to glean me for info, I wouldn't be so defensive...I literally had a couple con me into driving 1/2 hourr away to offer a free estimate, all to be quizzed by the husband who had painted himself into a corner on the plumbing in the bath remodel he'd mostly completed already.They lied to me to get me out, then tried to act like it was ok.

Situations like this are becoming more and more common.

For those of you who work for a shop that provides a 40 hour week, you may not understand what it's like of late to try to build a business, the ROI on advertizing has diminished just in the last two years.

This is hopefully due to the economy, but there is no question that the inundation of free information provided over the internet has hurt our trade.

Guys like me will feel it first, then as it trickles into the trade, we all feel the effect.

Rick has repeatedly attempted to minimize my point by stating I'm being rediculoius with this concern, no I don't think the Ridgid forum will put me out of business.I am concerned that this general idea that free advice online is harmless will...Ridgid is one of countless DIY forums that do this, for the sake of promoting a website or products, many sites do it now.

They profit from it, while some of us convince ourselves we are doing a noble thing...free of charge.I am not greedy, selfish nor blindly adverse for the sake of argument.

I struggle daily to build a business, I get calls for a simple toilet rebuild, to discover they're taking bids from 4 other plumbers, I answer questions over the phone on what fixtures I suggest after scheduling the work, all to hear "we changed our minds" as I call the night before to remind I'll be there in the morning.

Sorry if I'm ruining anyones fun, I just want to continue what I was taught when I first started...to respect my trade.

It's been mentioned that the opinion on DIY here is mixed, some do, some don't.Truth be known, the majority of plumbers won't offer DIY info, here they tend to leave quickly..often at the suggestion of certain members.

It's one thing to offer a fella a quick tutorial on how to replace the stems on his lav faucet in person, I do it too.

It's another thing altogether to endorse the large scale proliferation of free advice given out in bulk rate on a public forum.

THIS is my concern.

What appears to be innocent & harmless actually adds up as the internet becomes more and more inundated with these forums.

Suddenly "innocent & harmless" is happening in mass quantity.

The prevailing attitude with most who offer the info is that it's not going to hurt anyone, or that these requests are coming from financially challenged homeowners.

An unlicensed hack looking for info to do what he shouldn't be doing will tell you he's a helpless homeowner on a fixed income, unless we're under the assumption that ALL on the internet are honest.

In the big picture, there are tens of thousands of requests online over the course of any given week.A homeowner thats financially challenged, yet owns a PC and has internet access?

Barring the semantics, if I didn't have to spend so much time on the phone listening to people attempt to glean me for info, I wouldn't be so defensive...I literally had a couple con me into driving 1/2 hourr away to offer a free estimate, all to be quizzed by the husband who had painted himself into a corner on the plumbing in the bath remodel he'd mostly completed already.They lied to me to get me out, then tried to act like it was ok.

Situations like this are becoming more and more common.

For those of you who work for a shop that provides a 40 hour week, you may not understand what it's like of late to try to build a business, the ROI on advertizing has diminished just in the last two years.

This is hopefully due to the economy, but there is no question that the inundation of free information provided over the internet has hurt our trade.

Guys like me will feel it first, then as it trickles into the trade, we all feel the effect.

Rick has repeatedly attempted to minimize my point by stating I'm being rediculoius with this concern, no I don't think the Ridgid forum will put me out of business.I am concerned that this general idea that free advice online is harmless will...Ridgid is one of countless DIY forums that do this, for the sake of promoting a website or products, many sites do it now.

They profit from it, while some of us convince ourselves we are doing a noble thing...free of charge.I am not greedy, selfish nor blindly adverse for the sake of argument.

I struggle daily to build a business, I get calls for a simple toilet rebuild, to discover they're taking bids from 4 other plumbers, I answer questions over the phone on what fixtures I suggest after scheduling the work, all to hear "we changed our minds" as I call the night before to remind I'll be there in the morning.

Sorry if I'm ruining anyones fun, I just want to continue what I was taught when I first started...to respect my trade.

I'm also fairly fond of providing for my family.

I understand what you are saying Duck/GRPY Mark.I'm saddened to hear that plumbers that don't want to share leave here and go somewhere else.

I hope not to lose your wit and humor.
Unless of course your business explodes and you don't have enough time to spend on the computer.
I pray you get busy.

Duck- if they want to argue with the logic in the post, give up the good fight - join the franchises who gouge everyone and don't care. Adopt the attitude it's all about me and take home a nice paycheck for once and live a nice life. If our industry is going to be devalued and we stay in it - BEWARE HO! Now when you call us, we know it will only be because you cannot do it yourself and the PRICE will make you wish there were more honest plumbers. Just remember, you PUT THEM OUT!

Comment

So Duck, after all the back and forth. What's the answer? I'm seriously asking. Do we ask that the "Ask" section be removed? Don't answer anything there? Then move on to the next site (TL's maybe) and do the same thing? Keep going to we eliminate all of them? Maybe form a group of tradespeople to sue the providers for offering a forum where unsafe practices and advice could occur? Then track down those that offer advice and get their license suspended?

I'd like to think I respect my trade and my fellow tradesmen. But have I given too much advice here? Am I an asset or an a**hole?

What's the answer?

J.C.

Comment

This is going down exactly the same as what I saw happening in the eighties when companies started using the hispanic labor force.Now those guys that started with doing our labor back then own their own companies now.People are crying there is no work.The deal was set in motion years ago.Human nature causes change.I saw it coming and respected the change by adapting with it and educating myself to interact.Utah or Robert's(two totally different) examples shows us how to work with change/adversity.

Wether it's hispanics in the eighties or the internet now...
Our life is going to change.Plumbers,Electritians,Mechanics,Internet Providers,Whoever or Whatever is going to cause change.
How we play it is what counts to those watching/counting on us.

Comment

Right Adam. What happened there slowly trickled across the U.S. Now where I'm at painting, drywall, roofing, framing, masonry, flooring, insulation, & some others I can't remember have either been taken over entirely or infiltrated heavily by Hispanic labor.

What you'll notice about my list though is the absence of licensed trades. Plumbing, electrical, HVAC, mechanical-they do not own. At least not yet. But many owners have hired them.

And just like anything else in the U.S. capitalism system the reason they have been hired or the reason they have taken over a certain industry is because of the almighty dollar. Americans for the most part do not care who does the work or even longterm ramifications as long as they get what they want now cheaper.