If you're going to have issue with something, redact it, but don't delete the whole post as if it never happened. I'm to the point where I'm ready to tell all of you to go SHOVE IT.

Between the users who refuse to listen to what the people who actually know what they're doing...between the users who almost have a clue give information which is NOT correct...between the people who refuse to help us add support for new devices...

Thom - as I mentioned in IRC, there wouldn't have been much left of the post. And I was just about to PM you and ask you to post again without the specific phase you used. I really do not want to get into modifying actual posts as I feel that is far more rude. I am a moderator not a modifier.

I'd suspect that ppl who are smart enough to work on the lmce codebase should be able to express themselves without insults.

br, Hari

Just like I'd expect people in charge of a forum to be able to express themselves without having to delete other people's posts they don't approve of. Issues don't get resolved by using a delete button, QED.

@Tschak909I sense great anger and frustration, so I will accept that you talk in such a stern matter and put that in perspective.To reply to you remarks concering "Between the users who refuse to listen to what the people who actually know what they're doing..."This can be a communication problem, and with every communication problem it is from both sides.

Well as an outsider, I can give you my 2 cents (eurocents).

I can remember my X10 chat with somebody in IRC, where I was advised/ordered to get Zwave. My "but" was put down in a harsh manner, but ok I accept I am the new guy........but I do not want Zwave for my own reasons, I kicked a littlebut then I hushed, but I am still stubborn, so getting PLCbus now .It is all about communication and I sense this is a different league of communication, because a lot of hardcore coders make and break the project here.That is ok..........but there are also consumer idiots like me....In normal companies it works like this:Inventors/Developers -> Marketing -> ConsumerorConsumer -> Marketing -> Inventors/DevelopersYou know why these steps excist........because they all speak a different language......e.g. Philips (great ideas, bad marketing)

I think you can see also LinuxMCE like this, I am a consumer, I have nothing to really add, except user experience, tedious comments and stupid questions, but they should be respected.Also deleting posts is always bad, because you take away a voice, people tend to get angry then, it is better to explain in a nice open manner why they should try a different approach.I hope this little view of life is read with less emotion and a Dutch beer in the hand.

@Tschak909I sense great anger and frustration, so I will accept that you talk in such a stern matter and put that in perspective.To reply to you remarks concering "Between the users who refuse to listen to what the people who actually know what they're doing..."This can be a communication problem, and with every communication problem it is from both sides.

Well as an outsider, I can give you my 2 cents (eurocents).

I can remember my X10 chat with somebody in IRC, where I was advised/ordered to get Zwave. My "but" was put down in a harsh manner, but ok I accept I am the new guy........but I do not want Zwave for my own reasons, I kicked a littlebut then I hushed, but I am still stubborn, so getting PLCbus now .It is all about communication and I sense this is a different league of communication, because a lot of hardcore coders make and break the project here.That is ok..........but there are also consumer idiots like me....In normal companies it works like this:Inventors/Developers -> Marketing -> ConsumerorConsumer -> Marketing -> Inventors/DevelopersYou know why these steps excist........because they all speak a different language......e.g. Philips (great ideas, bad marketing)

I think you can see also LinuxMCE like this, I am a consumer, I have nothing to really add, except user experience, tedious comments and stupid questions, but they should be respected.Also deleting posts is always bad, because you take away a voice, people tend to get angry then, it is better to explain in a nice open manner why they should try a different approach.I hope this little view of life is read with less emotion and a Dutch beer in the hand.

I agree with what you say above 100% and I have an inferior British beer in my hand ;-)

No one should feel that they can't post here for fear of ridicule or otherwise. As Colin says above he regrets the action of deleting the post and next time would i am sure not do so. I agree that deleting posts should not be accepted as the the 'norm'...its one of the 'slipery slopes' to censorship that I for one would not like to see happen here. Postings here should not be deleted unless the material is offensive, in which case the thread should have a warning 'label', but be left in place for anyone who cares to read.

@Tschak909I sense great anger and frustration, so I will accept that you talk in such a stern matter and put that in perspective.To reply to you remarks concering "Between the users who refuse to listen to what the people who actually know what they're doing..."This can be a communication problem, and with every communication problem it is from both sides.

Well as an outsider, I can give you my 2 cents (eurocents).

I can remember my X10 chat with somebody in IRC, where I was advised/ordered to get Zwave. My "but" was put down in a harsh manner, but ok I accept I am the new guy........but I do not want Zwave for my own reasons, I kicked a littlebut then I hushed, but I am still stubborn, so getting PLCbus now .It is all about communication and I sense this is a different league of communication, because a lot of hardcore coders make and break the project here.That is ok..........but there are also consumer idiots like me....In normal companies it works like this:Inventors/Developers -> Marketing -> ConsumerorConsumer -> Marketing -> Inventors/DevelopersYou know why these steps excist........because they all speak a different language......e.g. Philips (great ideas, bad marketing)

I think you can see also LinuxMCE like this, I am a consumer, I have nothing to really add, except user experience, tedious comments and stupid questions, but they should be respected.Also deleting posts is always bad, because you take away a voice, people tend to get angry then, it is better to explain in a nice open manner why they should try a different approach.I hope this little view of life is read with less emotion and a Dutch beer in the hand.

I agree with what you say above 100% and I have an inferior British beer in my hand ;-)

No one should feel that they can't post here for fear of ridicule or otherwise. As Colin says above he regrets the action of deleting the post and next time would i am sure not do so. I agree that deleting posts should not be accepted as the the 'norm'...its one of the 'slipery slopes' to censorship that I for one would not like to see happen here. Postings here should not be deleted unless the material is offensive, in which case the thread should have a warning 'label', but be left in place for anyone who cares to read.

All the best

Andrew

I agree, i'm mean wow...just searching the forum and seeing a lot of replies to posts makes u want to try every other source like another linux, ubuntu, yahoo answers, even windows forum just to avoid a war lol. No disrespect intended and i am gratefull for the hard work the devs put in, but certain ppl need to chill out and realize that they have a skill that not everybody has attained as yet. I mean i'm in a professional field where most ppl are clueless to too, but i know i have to be humble because my strengths are a lot of ppl's weaknesses and vice versa. Thus i'm not going to call them an idiot for not being knowledgeable in my field of expertise. I would be the ignorant idiot for doing that. Collin, in my opinion you did the right thing. perhaps deleting the entire piece may have been extreme, but it was warranted, due the ridiculous reply. But what reeeeaalllyyy gets me pissed off is not mentioning Guinness when referring to superior beers. there is no excuse for that!!! any further negligence should be reprimanded and the posts should be deleted lol

@Tschak909I sense great anger and frustration, so I will accept that you talk in such a stern matter and put that in perspective.To reply to you remarks concering "Between the users who refuse to listen to what the people who actually know what they're doing..."This can be a communication problem, and with every communication problem it is from both sides.

Well as an outsider, I can give you my 2 cents (eurocents).

I can remember my X10 chat with somebody in IRC, where I was advised/ordered to get Zwave. My "but" was put down in a harsh manner, but ok I accept I am the new guy........but I do not want Zwave for my own reasons, I kicked a littlebut then I hushed, but I am still stubborn, so getting PLCbus now .It is all about communication and I sense this is a different league of communication, because a lot of hardcore coders make and break the project here.That is ok..........but there are also consumer idiots like me....In normal companies it works like this:Inventors/Developers -> Marketing -> ConsumerorConsumer -> Marketing -> Inventors/DevelopersYou know why these steps excist........because they all speak a different language......e.g. Philips (great ideas, bad marketing)

I think you can see also LinuxMCE like this, I am a consumer, I have nothing to really add, except user experience, tedious comments and stupid questions, but they should be respected.Also deleting posts is always bad, because you take away a voice, people tend to get angry then, it is better to explain in a nice open manner why they should try a different approach.I hope this little view of life is read with less emotion and a Dutch beer in the hand.

I agree with what you say above 100% and I have an inferior British beer in my hand ;-)

No one should feel that they can't post here for fear of ridicule or otherwise. As Colin says above he regrets the action of deleting the post and next time would i am sure not do so. I agree that deleting posts should not be accepted as the the 'norm'...its one of the 'slipery slopes' to censorship that I for one would not like to see happen here. Postings here should not be deleted unless the material is offensive, in which case the thread should have a warning 'label', but be left in place for anyone who cares to read.

All the best

Andrew

I agree, i'm mean wow...just searching the forum and seeing a lot of replies to posts makes u want to try every other source like another linux, ubuntu, yahoo answers, even windows forum just to avoid a war lol. No disrespect intended and i am gratefull for the hard work the devs put in, but certain ppl need to chill out and realize that they have a skill that not everybody has attained as yet. I mean i'm in a professional field where most ppl are clueless to too, but i know i have to be humble because my strengths are a lot of ppl's weaknesses and vice versa. Thus i'm not going to call them an idiot for not being knowledgeable in my field of expertise. I would be the ignorant idiot for doing that. Collin, in my opinion you did the right thing. perhaps deleting the entire piece may have been extreme, but it was warranted, due the ridiculous reply. But what reeeeaalllyyy gets me pissed off is not mentioning Guinness when referring to superior beers. there is no excuse for that!!! any further negligence should be reprimanded and the posts should be deleted lol

Hmmmm.... have to agree all the way with that too...especially the part about Guiness ;-)

I do agree with this tread specially that i got replies that felt like a hammer on top of my head.

I know most of you devs have great skills, i've seen a lot of videos but here there's nothing about geekness here, were all trying to get lmce further by eighter trying or developing which means getting further.

Looking at the forums i felt in the first place that asking few things make me feel like a moron and i'm not just talking for myself.

So let put things forward and always remember that new comers shall be welcomed.

I love guiness and i always live it on the side till i've finished making around with lmce.

"I agree, i'm mean wow...just searching the forum and seeing a lot of replies to posts makes u want to try every other source like another linux, ubuntu, yahoo answers, even windows forum just to avoid a war lol."

"Looking at the forums i felt in the first place that asking few things make me feel like a moron and i'm not just talking for myself."

We try to improve that area with the new mods :-) Nobody should fear to ask questions here..We have much bigger goals than stupid insults and flamewars.

I agree, i'm mean wow...just searching the forum and seeing a lot of replies to posts makes u want to try every other source like another linux, ubuntu, yahoo answers, even windows forum just to avoid a war lol. No disrespect intended and i am gratefull for the hard work the devs put in, but certain ppl need to chill out and realize that they have a skill that not everybody has attained as yet. I mean i'm in a professional field where most ppl are clueless to too, but i know i have to be humble because my strengths are a lot of ppl's weaknesses and vice versa. Thus i'm not going to call them an idiot for not being knowledgeable in my field of expertise. I would be the ignorant idiot for doing that. Collin, in my opinion you did the right thing. perhaps deleting the entire piece may have been extreme, but it was warranted, due the ridiculous reply. But what reeeeaalllyyy gets me pissed off is not mentioning Guinness when referring to superior beers. there is no excuse for that!!! any further negligence should be reprimanded and the posts should be deleted lol

I can really relate to this. If I have a problem, and I can't find the answer in these forums, the ubuntu forums, the wiki, google, then I post here..... that's what these forums are here for right? And most of the time I DREAD doing it, as chances are I will be made to feel silly.

Obviously it hasn't caused me that much mental anguish, as I keep posting here, but still, I can imagaine that a lot of people would be turned off LMCE because of this. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people here that know how to treat people with respect, and have been very helpful, but unfortunately there are one or two that ruin it with rudeness.

To the rude ones: the world does not revolve around Linux and LMCE - as a professional in MY field, I would never make anybody feel small or inadequate for not knowing as much as I do. That would be sad.