Welcome

Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and
others concerned about HIV/AIDS. Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the
conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive
and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a
username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own
physician.

All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators
of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please
provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are
true and correct to their knowledge.

I tested positive on MARCH/1/2011. Soon after I became extremely sick to the point I lacked the energy to go for a 10 minute walk. I just turned 25 years old but felt the life had been punched out of me. Being an avid body builder and health food fanatic, I decided to go back to my old regimen and discovered that a certain Raw fruit Smoothie helped with my fatigue. Below is my recipe. Please buy organic fruits/veggies for better results.

Add a cup of water or two and blend. Add Ice cubes as your blending if you'd like.

I have been drinking this shake first thing in the morning and the benefits I have seen so far: Increased energy and stamina, improved digestion, improved stool evacuation, and healthier looking skin.

This smoothie is packed with Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Potassium, Enzymes, Antioxidants, and most importantly it boosts your Immune system. This would explain why in three weeks after starting meds and drinking this shake every morning, my CD4's went up from 556 to 718, and Viral Load went down from 5,000,000 to 10,000.

Yes, I credit the medication(Atripla), but I know the fruit smoothie has played an amazing role in bringing my levels back to normal.

Well I'm not trying to argue about natural vs synthetic.Plus I never said I was getting better because of the raw fruit alone. I believe both are great. I know the HIV med is helping me, and yes foods and natural herbs have been proven to boost your immune system and fight off HIV. I'm not saying it's a cure, but it has helped me personally. I am a body builder so NUTRITION is important to fight off diseases.... just imagine if I was eating McDonald's every day and trying to combat this virus. Let's open our minds to new ideas and perspectives.

This smoothie is packed with Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Potassium, Enzymes, Antioxidants, and most importantly it boosts your Immune system. This would explain why in three weeks after starting meds and drinking this shake every morning, my CD4's went up from 556 to 718, and Viral Load went down from 5,000,000 to 10,000.

No dear -- This would NOT explain why your CD4's went up and your VL went down. What's missing from this paragraph (but included in the next) is that you started on HAART. THAT is what got you these results.

Well I'm not trying to argue about natural vs synthetic.Plus I never said I was getting better because of the raw fruit alone. I believe both are great. I know the HIV med is helping me, and yes foods and natural herbs have been proven to boost your immune system and fight off HIV. I'm not saying it's a cure, but it has helped me personally. I am a body builder so NUTRITION is important to fight off diseases.... just imagine if I was eating McDonald's every day and trying to combat this virus. Let's open our minds to new ideas and perspectives.

I eat McDonald's, smoke and drink (not a recommendation) and my numbers are fabulous. Thanks Prezista!

Well I'm not trying to argue about natural vs synthetic.Plus I never said I was getting better because of the raw fruit alone. I believe both are great. I know the HIV med is helping me, and yes foods and natural herbs have been proven to boost your immune system and fight off HIV. I'm not saying it's a cure, but it has helped me personally. I am a body builder so NUTRITION is important to fight off diseases.... just imagine if I was eating McDonald's every day and trying to combat this virus. Let's open our minds to new ideas and perspectives.

These aren't new ideas or perspectives. They have been around for a very long time. Many people have gotten quite sick while keeping "minds open". HAART explains your improvement. I know people with horrible diets who have had a better response to Atripla than you have. Now -- I'm not against good nutrition, but HAART is what drove your results to the better.

There is no need to defend me but thanks. The OP has a fair point, I can seem cocky.

But I do have issues with "This would explain why in three weeks after starting meds and drinking this shake every morning, my CD4's went up from 556 to 718" and other similar statements people make. This is within the expected range of variance of the CD4 test.

There is no decent study to my knowledge which shows diet particularly affects outcomes/immune function significantly in people with HIV who are not malnourished. Nonetheless I commend everyone to a healthier lifestyle if possible, it's good for your heart, which in the HIV context is the important point.

People who behave in a more healthy way tend to be more healthy, even if the specifics of what they are doing is not the significant factor. It's being healthy that matters, not the specifics.

This smoothie is packed with Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Potassium, Enzymes, Antioxidants, and most importantly it boosts your Immune system. This would explain why in three weeks after starting meds and drinking this shake every morning, my CD4's went up from 556 to 718, and Viral Load went down from 5,000,000 to 10,000.

Yes, I credit the medication(Atripla), but I know the fruit smoothie has played an amazing role in bringing my levels back to normal.

I personally could see how someone who is already on the fence about starting (or continuing) meds could be easily swayed into thinking that drinking a fruit shake is some sort of miracle cure, especially if they are recently/newly diagnosed or treatment naive.

Many people already harbor fear thanks to being able to self diagnose themselves after doing a simple search online; thanks to Google, and especially non reputable sources such as Wikipedia, the hypochondriac factor is easily elevated in people who aren't willing to invest the necessary time to speak to their doctors to validate these claims they stumble across online. All it takes is one person to convince themselves that they will no longer have to deal with awful side effects from taking their meds because they can just drink a smoothie and everything will be great. Yes, you did give Atripla credit for working, but it was much later after proclaiming the smoothie boosted your immune system. Many people wouldn't bother to read your post in its entirety after seeing the following claim: "most importantly it boosts your Immune system" if they were seeking a viable alternative to toxic drugs.

Seroconverted: Early 80sTested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. Last regimen: Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky )Past regimensFun stuff (in the past): HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

I personally could see how someone who is already on the fence about starting (or continuing) meds could be easily swayed into thinking that drinking a fruit shake is some sort of miracle cure, especially if they are recently/newly diagnosed or treatment naive.

To be strict, this is not what the original poster said, but, generally, I can see may people may believe this (indeed, I know some much to the detriment of my stress levels).

Seroconverted: Early 80sTested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. Last regimen: Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky )Past regimensFun stuff (in the past): HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

bkrn, If you're going to post recipes here that advocate not peeling vegetables such as carrots, then you better mention the need to scrub said vegetable first. Now that you're hiv positive, you're going to need to pay attention to your hygiene in the kitchen.

Newt is one of the most respected and knowledgeable members on these forum. He may not feel like he needs to be defended, but I'm chiming in anyway. Someday you're going to be grateful for his wealth of knowledge when it comes to meds and labs and suchlike.

The CD4 rebound you experienced had nothing to do with your smoothie and everything to do with Atripla. Like it or not, that's just the way it is.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

To help you understand the strong reactions by the forum members, you have to realize that there is a community of "HIV Denialists" out there, who not only refuse to believe that HIV causes AIDS, but also seek to convince others of the same and dissuade them from taking antiretroviral medications. Sometimes denialists are quite overt, but sometimes their approach is quite subtle and crafty. I'm not sure of all their goals, but among them is to spread confusion, fear, and doubt. That is not what these forums are for.

So those of us who understand the scientific evidence about HIV and AIDS are immediately suspicious when we see claims like foods and natural herbs are proven to boost the immune system and fight off HIV. They have *not* been proven to fight HIV. Those of us who have lost loved ones to AIDS, and those of us long-term survivors who remember the days before antiretroviral medications, simply will not put up with misinformation about cause and treatment for HIV / AIDS.

Unfortunately, your post is similiar to the initial approach that many denialists take when they join the forums. Hence, our vehement reactions.

I hope you will stick around here, because there are a lot of great, fun and knowledgeable people here. And, I hope you will continue taking your HIV meds, because they are keeping HIV under control in your body.

Regards,

Henry

Logged

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." - Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

I'm glad that different people have responded to this thread and the danger that it represents. When I first saw it I was a bit surprised by the claims made by the OP. I also felt that it does not belong in the Living With HIV board. This smoothie is probably very tasty, but it will not have any effect whatsoever upon this virus. Saying this belongs in the same department as previous claims made by other members regarding trampolines, oxygen chambers, certain mushrooms, and whatever food or drink that has been written about in the past.

Whatever success that has been experienced by the OP in his fight against HIV is thanks to Atripla. Sorry, but it is simple as that.

And I know that Newt said he didn't need to be defended, but he is one the most knowledgeable and trustworthy heads in this forum. He has every right to question the claims that were made.

One thing i want to clarify, I hope that the OP realizes he is not being personally attacked. The discussion was necessary.

Logged

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

One thing i want to clarify, I hope that the OP realizes he is not being personally attacked. The discussion was necessary.

Yes, it was. And if newt hadn't challenged it, any number of others here would have. In time, you'll likely come to really value this about these forums. This is done out of genuine care, not an attack.

From what I can see from your post, you went from initial infection to a life long committment to HIV medications in less than two months....with the primary medical issue of note being fatigue and a rash. Your VL shot up drastically, yes...but that is common just after initial infection. Your CD4 counts never went anywhere near an AIDS diagnosis in that time. And perhaps you got the dates transposed in the top items, but even so...it looks like you went directly into the doctor expecting this particular situation.

I have to wonder how much thought and communication went on between you and your doctor regarding your status with this disease and the weighing out of the benefits and costs of beginning ARV therapy right out of the gate like that. HIV is something that needs to be looked at and "managed" with an eye on the long haul. I'm hoping that is something that is being properly provided to you.

The apples give it a nice smooth sweetness, celery is great for sore joints/also a diaretic, i can't remember what carrots are good for, but it was something good

And my compost bin loves the vege pulp

J

btw, while smoothies etc can't be linked to any improvement in immune response, if they make you feel better, make you feel like you're being pro-active about your health... it all contributes to state of mind/happiness

« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 03:17:32 AM by poz1970 »

Logged

"The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn`t mean that God doesn`t love heterosexuals. It`s just that they need more supervision." -- Lynn Lavne

Thanks for sharing this recipe. I'm new to smoothie making and such, but I would love to start incorporating more raw fruits and veggies into my diet. I'm not a particularly huge fan of papaya so I may leave that out, or substitute in my fave kiwi fruit!

I've newly adopted the "6 small meals" nutrition regiment and I think this would make for the perfect wake-up meal and maybe deter me from drinking so much Starbucks or redbull.

Now that you're hiv positive, you're going to need to pay attention to your hygiene in the kitchen.

Tesco are doing a Byotrol spray (advertised as Tesco Antibacterial Spray) for £1.30. I keep hearing a lot of interesting stuff about Byotrol and its superior performance over traditional disinfection agents in that it is gentle on surfaces and persistent in its action (a single application can last around three days and kills all bacteria, funguses and viruses).

Tesco are doing a Byotrol spray (advertised as Tesco Antibacterial Spray) for £1.30. I keep hearing a lot of interesting stuff about Byotrol and its superior performance over traditional disinfection agents in that it is gentle on surfaces and persistent in its action (a single application can last around three days and kills all bacteria, funguses and viruses).

Just thought you might be interested.

Thank you. I'll look into that. We actually have a Tesco on the Rock (only one) - the only UK firm aside from Shoprite (I think they're only in Scotland), although Shoprite carries some Waitrose and Iceland products. Oh, scratch that, we also have Co-op.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Hi all, I've been off the board for a long time but the last 4 months have been critical for me. I came down with some sort of flu couple months back and it was one thing after another. I couldn't eat, was constipated (I know, yuck!) then coughing all the time, fever came up and I lost my balance so much I called ER at 7 AM. Since I live alone I couldn't walk in my apartment. ER concluded it was just the flu and take analgesics, big help, but hey, the emergency workers that showed up were all fantasy men.

When that cleared I had double vision, couldn't drive and barely stable walking. In all this I have wasting syndrome, I went from energetic !80# down to 150# and now down to 143#. Friends have been cooking things for me, I eat as much as possible. Along with this is a swallowing problem so food can get stuck or I gulp and then after I burp for hours which never was a problem before.

A friend who has really looked into nutrition said HIV people need lots more protein than we can get thru meals. He went to Costco bought me a 30# sack of Musclemilk Protein powder and a hand blender, good bowl with handle and spout since he's a cook, fruit juices and Keifer from Trader Joes that has a lot more bacteria than skimpy yogurt. I've been using that for 3 years now on my morning granola anyway and helps with GIRD and heartburn. I put in lots of fruit for fiber and juices of all types together, makes quite a healthful thick drink. I'm still just skin and bones and very tired and fuzzy headed.

My ENT Dr said I have no infections and doesn't understand the swallowing problem. Of course it being summer regular Drs are off and doing all the tests another Dr has to be called in....

my eyesight is slowly coming together, at least I can put on an eyepatch and drive short distances. I stay away from big intersections in Los Angeles.

mudman, all very worrying. Why don't you open a thread and get some conversation going on your situation.Didn't you fight cancer again about a year or two ago?Why are you having wasting? Are you on HAART, by the way?

Logged

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

I have a question though for you (or anyone else that could answer for me). You said in your post that people with HIV need more protein than others. Where did your friend get this information from? From my understanding it would seem that people with HIV should be getting less protein. Positive people are at higher risk from both liver and kidney disease and too much (or high amounts) of protein harm both the liver and kidneys. Ive seen this statement about people increasing their protien a few times on here. Where is this information coming from?

Bug, it's well-known that positive people need to ensure we're getting enough protein, although most sources say that it should be limited to 15 to 20 percent of total calorie intake in order to not stress the kidneys.

Patients living with HIV may have muscle wasting. This occurs because the body is not getting enough protein and uses its own protein, such as muscles, to fuel metabolic processes. This can weaken the immune system according to Tufts University Nutrition/Infection Unit. The University states HIV positive patients should take in around 100 to 150 g/day of protein for HIV positive men and 80 to 100 g/day of protein for HIV positive women. Protein intake should be limited to 15 to 20 percent of total calories in order not to stress the kidneys. Lean meat, legumes, poultry with skin cut off prior to cooking, fish, and nuts are good sources of protein.source

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I'm not a particularly huge fan of papaya so I may leave that out, or substitute in my fave kiwi fruit!

I used to hate papaya until I tried the red papaya...its a nice sweet fruit with a little tang to it...you have to try the red, papaya is great for the digestive system and also helps get those needed vitamins into your system that normally is wasted out and not used.I first tried the "yellow" papaya and I put sugar on it, then tried salt and tried mixing it with other fruit to help with the taste but just couldn't handle that nasty taste, then I tried the red papaya and it is like a total different fruit....it might say Hawaiian or some other tropical country on it but they are smaller then the yellow type and normally cost a little more but worth it.