responding with overwhelmingly lethal force does NOT make something better for the street. There are all levels of force used in the street, from light hands and harsh language to using wepons on another person. If lethal force is your only option, you're very limited.

I can see that, I was speaking under the assumption that Jujitsu is a more warrior like art then Judo.

I agree lethal force is a last resort, I just meant with someone attacking with the knife. I was not aware of Judo moves that prepare you for this. If there are I did not know. In most self defense encounters I personally recommend get away. Put yourself in front of your family as a human, shield. stay ready and give them what they ask for. no item is worth your life. dont' follow them and don't let them take or attack you or your family.

but when push comes to shove, I didn't think what I thought was ground fighting would be best. expecially against more then one attacker, being on the ground with one guy leaving your family or your back to the others.

Originally Posted by Permalost

grappling and other close quarters contact may actually prepare him for violence more than choreographed mock-violence

I've never thought about this since I don't prefer grappling. the old high school wrestlers would eat up guys who had any fear and most ended up quitting. the ones with mentality of get em are the ones that shined.

Originally Posted by Permalost

rushing someone with a knife is pretty much the ONLY way to beat someone attacking you with a knife

In my training against a knife we try and isolate the knife away and attack or break the arm. each knife attack angle has a slightly different one but the end goal is the same destroy there weapon arm or ability to pursue the attack.

When I saw judo I was imaging someone going in for a throw. If they don't stab you I guess it would make sense hitting the ground could cause them to drop the knife.

Originally Posted by Permalost

grappling and groundwork may even be therapeutic to such a person, to learn that vigorous interpersonal contact is not always of a criminally violent nature.

I might have the wrestling coach's methods stuck in my head to much. might be worth taking a few classes to see the difference. but that seems like sound advice.

Originally Posted by Permalost

Those are usually choreographed demos- even masters of such methods often fail under pressure. Look up Tomiki Aikido Tanto Randori- those guys know the same JJJ knife defenses, but look what happens under pressure (and that's a semi-scripted knife attack still, because the attack has to come a certain way).

yeah I'll look him up see what I can find, thanks.

Originally Posted by Permalost

Those documentaries are showing choreographed demos. I mean, did they point their cameras at actual samurai engaging in a duel? That's like saying dinosaurs didn't have feathers because they didn't in a documentary called Jurassic Park.

[FONT=Arial][COLOR=black]Hey I appreciate the post. That's the kinda of response, I was looking for when I started the new thread not to whine as "It is fake" would have you believe.

You complained about your treatment by two posters. That is you whining.

Go ahead, ignore people while ragequiting and whining. When i have a little more time we will have some fun.

Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon

Hey permalost thanks for the awesome response.

I can see that, I was speaking under the assumption that Jujitsu is a more warrior like art then Judo.

Yes, which is why EVERYONE TOLD YOU TO STFU. You know nothing. The fact you have no clue that JJJ is where
Judo has roots shows your continued ignorance.

I agree lethal force is a last resort, I just meant with someone attacking with the knife. I was not aware of Judo moves that prepare you for this. If there are I did not know. In most self defense encounters I personally recommend get away. Put yourself in front of your family as a human, shield. stay ready and give them what they ask for. no item is worth your life. dont' follow them and don't let them take or attack you or your family.

See above.

but when push comes to shove, I didn't think what I thought was ground fighting would be best. expecially against more then one attacker, being on the ground with one guy leaving your family or your back to the others.

If you can't beat one you are not beating many NO MATTER WHAT OR HOW YOU TRAIN.

I've never thought about this since I don't prefer grappling. the old high school wrestlers would eat up guys who had any fear and most ended up quitting. the ones with mentality of get em are the ones that shined.

Hmmm.... you were one of the quitters, how would you know?

When I saw judo I was imaging someone going in for a throw. If they don't stab you I guess it would make sense hitting the ground could cause them to drop the knife.

Train the art.

I might have the wrestling coach's methods stuck in my head to much. might be worth taking a few classes to see the difference. but that seems like sound advice.

See, that is another problem with this thread. Thirteen pages of a thread that includes several references to TKD and Der hasn't posted one picture of a hot Korean chick yet. This thread will not be complete until he does.

Mushi mo atsui hodo
Mushiatsui

Originally Posted by chuey...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

See, that is another problem with this thread. Thirteen pages of a thread that includes several references to TKD and Der hasn't posted one picture of a hot Korean chick yet. This thread will not be complete until he does.

You don't post enough to realize he just recently came back. He rarely travels into YMAS.

Originally Posted by TEA

After re-reading my post, I see that I have graduated from the Rick Perry school of mathematics. I guess I be edumacated now.

I find it shocking that no one has called me on it yet, though. Bulshido, where art thy standards? I would have expected the Spanish Inquisition.

Did you read this thread? Between goodlun, BlazeLee, and a few others I turn off the academic center of my brain, minus pedantic semantic issues and logical fallacies.

I can see that, I was speaking under the assumption that Jujitsu is a more warrior like art then Judo.

Wrestling is an older military art than any other martial art, and the modern combatives program uses a good deal of grappling. The logic is that wrestling/grappling teaches to fight and struggle more safely at high intensity, which is good for the mindset, which applies to modern warfare even though violence is conducted with weapons.

I agree lethal force is a last resort, I just meant with someone attacking with the knife. I was not aware of Judo moves that prepare you for this.

See below re. waki gatame

but when push comes to shove, I didn't think what I thought was ground fighting would be best. expecially against more then one attacker, being on the ground with one guy leaving your family or your back to the others.

-fighting multiple opponents on one's feet isn't easy either.

-fighting your way back to your feet after falling to the ground is something that grappling/wrestling will instill more than pretty much any other art.

-its very likely that if you fight two or more guys, you'll get taken to the ground at least once.

-so you're fighting a few bad dudes. What are the odds that among, let's say, five willing-to-fight adult men, one of them knows a thing or two about wrestling? Pretty good, I'd say. If he's better than you, you'll be going down.

In my training against a knife we try and isolate the knife away and attack or break the arm. each knife attack angle has a slightly different one but the end goal is the same destroy there weapon arm or ability to pursue the attack.

I've studied FMA for a good while, and if I had to pick one go-to move against a knife, it'd be waki gatame, a technique in judo as well as jujutsu (and other stuff).
judo wakigatame:

Here's Shinya Aoki showing a version of it:

if you poke around youtube, there's quite a few vids of him actually breaking people's arms with grappling.

When I saw judo I was imaging someone going in for a throw. If they don't stab you I guess it would make sense hitting the ground could cause them to drop the knife.

Judo isn't explicitly knife-oriented, but they do focus on controlling another person's body. Their knife arm is only one part of that body, as long as they don't use changing hands (which they might).

I'd also say that controlling the knife is about controlling the entire arm up to the shoulder and continuing to apply force to the rest of the body there. Judo teaches how to disbalance real people and put your weight into disbalancing techniques.

I might have the wrestling coach's methods stuck in my head to much. might be worth taking a few classes to see the difference. but that seems like sound advice.

You should look up a program called STAB, that focuses on Greco Roman + Aliveness as applied to knife defense. Well thought out tactics to teach to someone that plans to do a minimum of knife training.

yeah I'll look him up see what I can find, thanks.

That's a style, not a person. The person to look up would be Kenji Tomiki.

After re-reading my post, I see that I have graduated from the Rick Perry school of mathematics. I guess I be edumacated now.

I find it shocking that no one has called me on it yet, though. Bulshido, where art thy standards? I would have expected the Spanish Inquisition.

eh I think the focus is on me right now. you can see the continue attempts to goad me. there was someone complaining about me referring to nunchaku as a two section staff, it wasn't his style but he persisted. no one called him on it. I then gave referenced and found the actually Chinese name according to Shaolin-Do erjie gun. So we where talking about two different weapons him the Chang Xiao ban or something. but I was called and he wasn't, I should of just walked away but I came here for martial arts conversation.