Re: i got pulled up again

Originally Posted by spb_stan

A few years ago I was back home in the US staying with my sister in our duplex for a couple weeks. I had just purchased a new D800 and was trying it out to by walking down the street to a park testing it and the new 24-70 2.8. It was the middle of the day, weekday so few people were in the park except for some kids in the enclosed skateboard area with an elaborate concrete course inside a chain link fenced area. Being a school day I assumed they were older than school age. I took a few shots from 50 feet away to check AF speed, then wandered off to the creek to see if I could find some birds to shoot. 10 minutes later I heard sirens and then they stop. 2-3 minutes later I am confronted with two cops with guns pointed at me demanding that I drop the camera...sure, a new D800 and $1800 lens toss to the ground...not. I got down and they started screaming to drop the weapon...the camera, and I did but one put his foot in my hand really hard as he kicked the weapon(D800) several feet away. They demanded I keep my hands spread wide but also demanded id. Anyway, they did not shoot but did cuff me and took me to the police station and sat for a couple hours until they interviewed me after checking to see, I suppose, if I had a record for taking photos in the park before. 3 hours later, after hostile interrogation they decided I was a homeowner in the neighborhood but was told if I was reported again for "lurking" in the park or around children....(all late teens or early 20s) I would be arrested. They said I was lucky if I was not a homeowner I would have been in serious trouble for taking 3 photos of skateboarders doing trick jumps. I asked how that assumed they were children but did not ask them why they were not in school. I was told it was none of my business and it was up to me to assure they were over age, after all, I was the person the complaint was made about. I sent a letter to the city council and police chief telling them of the overreach and life-threatening situation their police put me into, and the city said they do not discuss police matters and the police said they do not answer questions about cases pending.

I have been all over the world, 90 countries, and never ever treated with so much aggression and disrespect by officials as in my own neighborhood, and live in a country most who have never been here assume to be a police state but it is exactly the opposite. I feel less free in my own country than any place I have visited. It was not like that 30 years ago. I have not been back for 3 years and need to renew my passport so will try to have it down outside the US. Why people put up with the insanity of increased authoritarianism is puzzling. Maybe because it has been so gradual that people get used to it.
The US is no longer safe for photography in public places is the only lesson that I could take way from this.

If things happened as you describe them (cuffed, transported, detained and interrogated for hours), and frankly I'm having trouble believing they did, your Fourth Amendment rights were trampled and you have a very, VERY strong case for a lawsuit.

Re: i got pulled up again

Wow, that's crazy Roy! The only time I ever experienced a problem was when I wanted to take a photo of the Trenton Makes Bridge (which has been photographed ad nauseum by so many people). A guy from the Port Authority told me it was against their policy to allow photographs to be taken because of Homeland Security. They control what goes on with those bridges so I didn't give him any trouble. I was polite and told him I understood. Then he told me he'd be leaving within 30 minutes if I wanted to come back.

Too bad you and I don't live close. There are so many people who approach me and freely engage in conversation. It boggles my mind sometimes. Like yesterday for example. Some guy asked if saw the torn up turf at the park. A joy-rider left tire tracks all around the area. He was really going off complaining like crazy. I told him I'd take a photo and share it with the local media. After I walked away from him, an older man asked me if I knew him.

And then there was the toddler who ran in front of my camera every time I tried to take a photo. After 3 failed attempts to get different scenes, I left and came home. I wasn't about to take photos of someone's grandchild. The grandparent didn't seem to mind that the boy kept intruding into what I was doing. Sorry that happened to you.

Re: i got pulled up again

..... A guy from the Port Authority told me it was against their policy to allow photographs to be taken because of Homeland Security................

My response would have been "Tough cookies. Your policy is not a law, and it does not apply to me."

Every time someone surrenders their rights, everyone else's rights are reduced just a little bit. Every time some security guard 'gets away with' enforcing some mythical 'law', everyone's rights are reduced just a little bit.

If you keep tearing off just a teeny little corner of the Bill of Rights, no matter how small, some day............. they won't exist.

It's bad enough the general populace believes anyone with a camera is either a terrorist or a pedophile. But we have only ourselves to blame.

Re: i got pulled up again

I did not say I was interrogated for hours, I was detained and kept waiting for hours. The camera was a weapon they said so they had justification for their actions. I am not familiar with the changing laws but know rights have been severely eroded so have no idea if they were outside of the law at that time. I avoid going back and suggest others not visit either. Their suggestion that they let me know because they verified I was a neighborhood homeowner seemed like they were targetting people who were defenseless.
One my last visit back, I first renewed my driver's license in Sacramento than returned by train to San Franciso where I planned to stay for a week visiting old friends and checking on my house in Marin County over the Golden Gate Bridge. When I booked the room online I prepaid the first night in a small hotel on Union Square. I took BART from the East Bay to the SF Market Street station and attempted to check in. I was told a law prevented me from checking in because I had no valid photo ID. I had my expired drivers license with photo, my renewed temporary driver's license and my American passport which certainly has my photo. The manager insisted the passport was not legal id in the US. Arguing did not help so I left to go find another hotel and found the same reception in each one. I checked all the hotels in the neighborhood and none would allow me to check in without a state photo id other than a passport. The only id that is valid internationally is the passport and the US is a signatory to the passport union so this made no sense but I finally found a small hostel that allowed me to check in. It was a cool place, very social with young people from all over the world. On my 3rd day the manager came to my room and said I needed to check out because the clerk on duty when I checked in did not know the law.
That is the craziness going back to the US has become. They accept passports for all but Americans, some homeland security rule. After the "camera is a weapon" claim of the polices a could years before, and the crazy "passport is not valid id" rule (yet now as I understand it a passport is now required to cross state lines by trains or air, not sure if it includes driving or walking across state lines. Heck in Europe you travel between 24 countries and no id or passport or visa is required but in the US a flight between states requires a passport. TAll these experiences are why I really avoid going back home at all Not many countries have as many restrictions and prohibitions. My GF wants me to take her to visit the US and I won't risk it, we travel all over but the US is not welcoming. At least she would be able to check into a hotel even if I can't because she is not a citizen.

Re: i got pulled up again

Now some of you might not like the ACLU but they have short movie about taking images in the USA so here it is. I usually show this at my Basic Digital class.
When I took images of my grand daughter I had a large plastic #2 the other mothers at the play ground wanted to know if they could take images of their children with the #2 I should have charged 50˘ each could have bought some equipment!!!
Lou Cioccio

Re: i got pulled up again

Sorry that happened, Roy. I've never had a similar experience, but I tend to be as far away from people as possible when I'm doing my photography.

We seem to live in a paranoid society these days. I know bad stuff happens, and we all need to be aware and keep watch, but we have become SO untrusting of each other that I consider it a sort of socially induced mental illness.