Kinda sounds like it's a one year deal which is good going for him to keep his options open. Maybe a 1+1 deal if the car goes well.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

It will depend on McLaren's performance relative to Red Bull, as it will give him a direct comparison to a leading team with the same power unit.

So long as the McLaren chassis is within 7/10ths of the Red Bull chassis, then by his own words he'll be able to beat them.

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

I don't think it's anything to do with Japanese culture. It's just toxic to work in an environment where someone is aggressive with their criticism and disrespectful towards coworkers. I think most people here in the forum have had some experience with that in their professional lives.

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

They said a bit more too...

Basically it has been for two things: one, that our engine did not has power, and two, that the power we found could not always be deployed as we wanted. "Hasegawa knows that the star driver Fernando Alonso has suffered in his flesh the lack of performance and for that reason he understands some reactions of the Asturian. "Alonso always came to put pressure on me, if the car was going badly, he had no qualms about telling me he was not happy, and do not think that he liked it, quite the opposite: he's a good person. but He had to do it. " After all, he wanted everything to be all right, so I'm so embarrassed and disappointed that I did not give him a good engine," explains the Japanese.

Shame, a word that hurts a Japanese worker that was not well received by other leaders of the Japanese company: "Obviously, there are people in Honda who was not happy with the attitude of Alonso" but it is not my case, for me it was not a problem.Personally , I am very sorry that he became embarrassed or angry.From a professional point of view, there have been many problems, because he was never happy, and thus it is very difficult to establish a good working relationship. Alonso did his job, as a good professional that he is.The pilots, after all, are very emotional types and you have to understand them when they behave like this.If I had the best car, would not Alonso be happy? That's why we can not complain. "

Problems and disappointments that according to Hasegawa were increased by the great hopes that had in the project: "The expectations on Honda were so, so high ... That has been our great failure. It is not that the project of McLaren did not work, alone that we have not met expectations, we were too ambitious, and we were not really ready in 2015. We have improved, but the directive leadership was not expecting this , yes, Honda's identity is always to fight, not to surrender. to do, if we would not leave F1. "

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

As for criticising Renault then he will if they fail as badly as Honda but that's never going to happen. He's much more likely to complain about the car if it falls short I'd say. As Hasegawa points out they are emotional beings and anything less than the best and they're not going to be happy.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

It will depend on McLaren's performance relative to Red Bull, as it will give him a direct comparison to a leading team with the same power unit.

So long as the McLaren chassis is within 7/10ths of the Red Bull chassis, then by his own words he'll be able to beat them.

No, if they're .700 off RBR it means they'd be 1.300 off without him driving for the team. The six tenths was development that he brought to the team, not driving.

Seriously, however, I don't think he's going to be making much stink about the engine if at least one Renault engined team is doing well. If both Macca and RBR are struggling, he might very well. If RBR is winning, he'll know it's the car. And if Macca is winning, there's no reason to complain at all!

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

So that's basically another major corporation that he has perhaps burnt his bridge with?

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

It will depend on McLaren's performance relative to Red Bull, as it will give him a direct comparison to a leading team with the same power unit.

So long as the McLaren chassis is within 7/10ths of the Red Bull chassis, then by his own words he'll be able to beat them.

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

It will depend on McLaren's performance relative to Red Bull, as it will give him a direct comparison to a leading team with the same power unit.

So long as the McLaren chassis is within 7/10ths of the Red Bull chassis, then by his own words he'll be able to beat them.

No, if they're .700 off RBR it means they'd be 1.300 off without him driving for the team. The six tenths was development that he brought to the team, not driving.

Seriously, however, I don't think he's going to be making much stink about the engine if at least one Renault engined team is doing well. If both Macca and RBR are struggling, he might very well. If RBR is winning, he'll know it's the car. And if Macca is winning, there's no reason to complain at all!

In respect to Red Bull then, McLaren will have to develop their own flexi-wings.

Kinda sounds like it's a one year deal which is good going for him to keep his options open. Maybe a 1+1 deal if the car goes well.

Exactly which kind of goes against this commitment that Alonso is apparently making to the team.

How so?. He's a bit long in the tooth for yet another long term project don't you think?. At 36/7 he'd be stupid not to have options and it sounds like it's at least a 1+1 so if they both deliver they'll be staying put.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

So that's basically another major corporation that he has perhaps burnt his bridge with?

Have you responded to every post in this thread except for Lotus49's post citing exactly what was said? Ya know, the one with the truth in it

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

They said a bit more too...

Basically it has been for two things: one, that our engine did not has power, and two, that the power we found could not always be deployed as we wanted. "Hasegawa knows that the star driver Fernando Alonso has suffered in his flesh the lack of performance and for that reason he understands some reactions of the Asturian. "Alonso always came to put pressure on me, if the car was going badly, he had no qualms about telling me he was not happy, and do not think that he liked it, quite the opposite: he's a good person. but He had to do it. " After all, he wanted everything to be all right, so I'm so embarrassed and disappointed that I did not give him a good engine," explains the Japanese.

Shame, a word that hurts a Japanese worker that was not well received by other leaders of the Japanese company: "Obviously, there are people in Honda who was not happy with the attitude of Alonso" but it is not my case, for me it was not a problem.Personally , I am very sorry that he became embarrassed or angry.From a professional point of view, there have been many problems, because he was never happy, and thus it is very difficult to establish a good working relationship. Alonso did his job, as a good professional that he is.The pilots, after all, are very emotional types and you have to understand them when they behave like this.If I had the best car, would not Alonso be happy? That's why we can not complain. "

Problems and disappointments that according to Hasegawa were increased by the great hopes that had in the project: "The expectations on Honda were so, so high ... That has been our great failure. It is not that the project of McLaren did not work, alone that we have not met expectations, we were too ambitious, and we were not really ready in 2015. We have improved, but the directive leadership was not expecting this , yes, Honda's identity is always to fight, not to surrender. to do, if we would not leave F1. "

Kinda sounds like it's a one year deal which is good going for him to keep his options open. Maybe a 1+1 deal if the car goes well.

Exactly which kind of goes against this commitment that Alonso is apparently making to the team.

How so?. He's a bit long in the tooth for yet another long term project don't you think?. At 36/7 he'd be stupid not to have options and it sounds like it's at least a 1+1 so if they both deliver they'll be staying put.

"When asked if the deal was just for 2018, Alonso said: "No. We never discuss the contract clauses and we are not going to do it now, but it's a long-term contract and we'll see how things go."

So where's anything against his commitment to the team?

He doesn't want to discuss the contract clauses which basically means he can leave the team whenever he pleases, this is the kind of contract he tried to negotiate at Ferrari but they would have none of it.

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

So that's basically another major corporation that he has perhaps burnt his bridge with?

Have you responded to every post in this thread except for Lotus49's post citing exactly what was said? Ya know, the one with the truth in it

Which basically said the same thing that there were people within Honda that did not like his attitude.

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

So that's basically another major corporation that he has perhaps burnt his bridge with?

Have you responded to every post in this thread except for Lotus49's post citing exactly what was said? Ya know, the one with the truth in it

Which basically said the same thing that there were people within Honda that did not like his attitude.

Poker, I think your smart enough to know that in the workplace, not everyone is going to get along and their will be cultural and attitude clashes. This includes Hamilton, Vettel, Prost and even Schumacher. The only difference is what the media choices to publish.

_________________#Keep Fighting Michael

Last edited by cm97 on Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kinda sounds like it's a one year deal which is good going for him to keep his options open. Maybe a 1+1 deal if the car goes well.

Exactly which kind of goes against this commitment that Alonso is apparently making to the team.

How so?. He's a bit long in the tooth for yet another long term project don't you think?. At 36/7 he'd be stupid not to have options and it sounds like it's at least a 1+1 so if they both deliver they'll be staying put.

A 1 year contract is not a statement of commitment.

McLaren seem more than happy with the level of commitment he's shown which is really all that matters.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

So that's basically another major corporation that he has perhaps burnt his bridge with?

Have you responded to every post in this thread except for Lotus49's post citing exactly what was said? Ya know, the one with the truth in it

Which basically said the same thing that there were people within Honda that did not like his attitude.

Yeah because all other drivers are worshipped by every one at their respective teams. Drivers are nightmares even when you deliver them rocketships never mind tractors.

Workplaces are like that and you can't please everyone. Hasegawa, the man Honda put in charge and who has racing experience and dealt with Alonso the closest, felt very differently and understood what drivers are like in those situations.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

So that's basically another major corporation that he has perhaps burnt his bridge with?

Have you responded to every post in this thread except for Lotus49's post citing exactly what was said? Ya know, the one with the truth in it

Which basically said the same thing that there were people within Honda that did not like his attitude.

Poker, I think your smart enough to know that in the workplace, not everyone is going to get along and their will be cultural and attitude clashes. This includes Hamilton, Vettel, Prost and even Schumacher. The only difference is what the media choices to publish.

Maybe I misread it, I thought he was referring to people higher up at Honda?

Kinda sounds like it's a one year deal which is good going for him to keep his options open. Maybe a 1+1 deal if the car goes well.

Exactly which kind of goes against this commitment that Alonso is apparently making to the team.

How so?. He's a bit long in the tooth for yet another long term project don't you think?. At 36/7 he'd be stupid not to have options and it sounds like it's at least a 1+1 so if they both deliver they'll be staying put.

A 1 year contract is not a statement of commitment.

McLaren seem more than happy with the level of commitment he's shown which is really all that matters.

It's all about having a positive front, we know Alonso is driving for Mclaren in 2018, were will he be driving in 2019?

Exactly which kind of goes against this commitment that Alonso is apparently making to the team.

How so?. He's a bit long in the tooth for yet another long term project don't you think?. At 36/7 he'd be stupid not to have options and it sounds like it's at least a 1+1 so if they both deliver they'll be staying put.

A 1 year contract is not a statement of commitment.

McLaren seem more than happy with the level of commitment he's shown which is really all that matters.

It's all about having a positive front, we know Alonso is driving for Mclaren in 2018, were will he be driving in 2019?

McLaren if they build a good enough car and they still want him I'd imagine. Either way they're both happy with it.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

"When asked if the deal was just for 2018, Alonso said: "No. We never discuss the contract clauses and we are not going to do it now, but it's a long-term contract and we'll see how things go."

So where's anything against his commitment to the team?

He doesn't want to discuss the contract clauses which basically means he can leave the team whenever he pleases, this is the kind of contract he tried to negotiate at Ferrari but they would have none of it.

It means that?

Can you find me a case of a driver openly discussing their contract clauses right after signing a new contract? Or at all, frankly?

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

So that's basically another major corporation that he has perhaps burnt his bridge with?

I want him to speak fairy cakes about Mclaren again when they fail to compete against RBR next year and are at a distant 4th or even 5th best team

Kinda sounds like it's a one year deal which is good going for him to keep his options open. Maybe a 1+1 deal if the car goes well.

Exactly which kind of goes against this commitment that Alonso is apparently making to the team.

How so?. He's a bit long in the tooth for yet another long term project don't you think?. At 36/7 he'd be stupid not to have options and it sounds like it's at least a 1+1 so if they both deliver they'll be staying put.

A 1 year contract is not a statement of commitment.

McLaren seem more than happy with the level of commitment he's shown which is really all that matters.

It's on McLaren to deliver the goods now. They give him a race winning car and Alonso doesn't need to look elsewhere.

"When asked if the deal was just for 2018, Alonso said: "No. We never discuss the contract clauses and we are not going to do it now, but it's a long-term contract and we'll see how things go."

So where's anything against his commitment to the team?

He doesn't want to discuss the contract clauses which basically means he can leave the team whenever he pleases, this is the kind of contract he tried to negotiate at Ferrari but they would have none of it.

That's the mother of all assumptions, wouldn't you say? he doesn't want to discuss = he can leave whenever he wants? How do you draw that conclusion?

"When asked if the deal was just for 2018, Alonso said: "No. We never discuss the contract clauses and we are not going to do it now, but it's a long-term contract and we'll see how things go."

So where's anything against his commitment to the team?

He doesn't want to discuss the contract clauses which basically means he can leave the team whenever he pleases, this is the kind of contract he tried to negotiate at Ferrari but they would have none of it.

It means that?

Can you find me a case of a driver openly discussing their contract clauses right after signing a new contract? Or at all, frankly?

I know that Hamilton signed a 3 year contract with Mercedes followed by another 3 year contract, exactly the same with Vettel at Ferrari, Ricciardo's contract runs out after 2018, Verstappen's after 2020, I haven't a clue about Alonso's contract.

It will be interesting to see what Alonso's attitude will be if the Renault engine is relative crap next year.In a recent article Honda said that is didn't like his attitude. With the Japanese "saving face" culture, I understand.Will he criticize Renault, with which he has had much success, as much as Honda if their engine is just as bad?

So that's basically another major corporation that he has perhaps burnt his bridge with?

I want him to speak fairy cakes about Mclaren again when they fail to compete against RBR next year and are at a distant 4th or even 5th best team

"When asked if the deal was just for 2018, Alonso said: "No. We never discuss the contract clauses and we are not going to do it now, but it's a long-term contract and we'll see how things go."

So where's anything against his commitment to the team?

He doesn't want to discuss the contract clauses which basically means he can leave the team whenever he pleases, this is the kind of contract he tried to negotiate at Ferrari but they would have none of it.

That's the mother of all assumptions, wouldn't you say? he doesn't want to discuss = he can leave whenever he wants? How do you draw that conclusion?

"When asked if the deal was just for 2018, Alonso said: "No. We never discuss the contract clauses and we are not going to do it now, but it's a long-term contract and we'll see how things go."

So where's anything against his commitment to the team?

He doesn't want to discuss the contract clauses which basically means he can leave the team whenever he pleases, this is the kind of contract he tried to negotiate at Ferrari but they would have none of it.

That's the mother of all assumptions, wouldn't you say? he doesn't want to discuss = he can leave whenever he wants? How do you draw that conclusion?

I'll assume because of all the secrecy around the contract.

Secrecy could be for any number of reasons. How many drivers publish their contracts for all to see? You can't assume there's an open get-out clause on the basis that they won't talk about it. And you certainly can't state it like it's any kind of fact

"When asked if the deal was just for 2018, Alonso said: "No. We never discuss the contract clauses and we are not going to do it now, but it's a long-term contract and we'll see how things go."

So where's anything against his commitment to the team?

He doesn't want to discuss the contract clauses which basically means he can leave the team whenever he pleases, this is the kind of contract he tried to negotiate at Ferrari but they would have none of it.

It means that?

Can you find me a case of a driver openly discussing their contract clauses right after signing a new contract? Or at all, frankly?

I know that Hamilton signed a 3 year contract with Mercedes followed by another 3 year contract, exactly the same with Vettel at Ferrari, Ricciardo's contract runs out after 2018, Verstappen's after 2020, I haven't a clue about Alonso's contract.

But you don't know whether any of them have get out clauses, or indeed any clauses on anything.

So that's basically another major corporation that he has perhaps burnt his bridge with?

Have you responded to every post in this thread except for Lotus49's post citing exactly what was said? Ya know, the one with the truth in it

Which basically said the same thing that there were people within Honda that did not like his attitude.

Poker, I think your smart enough to know that in the workplace, not everyone is going to get along and their will be cultural and attitude clashes. This includes Hamilton, Vettel, Prost and even Schumacher. The only difference is what the media choices to publish.

Maybe I misread it, I thought he was referring to people higher up at Honda?

"When asked if the deal was just for 2018, Alonso said: "No. We never discuss the contract clauses and we are not going to do it now, but it's a long-term contract and we'll see how things go."

So where's anything against his commitment to the team?

He doesn't want to discuss the contract clauses which basically means he can leave the team whenever he pleases, this is the kind of contract he tried to negotiate at Ferrari but they would have none of it.

That's the mother of all assumptions, wouldn't you say? he doesn't want to discuss = he can leave whenever he wants? How do you draw that conclusion?

I'll assume because of all the secrecy around the contract.

Secrecy could be for any number of reasons. How many drivers publish their contracts for all to see? You can't assume there's an open get-out clause on the basis that they won't talk about it. And you certainly can't state it like it's any kind of fact