maybe it is the "manipulation before it is photographed" that i was trying to articulate ..
sometimes my trying to say things is nearly impossible, thanks for picking up on what i meant .

i remember i was given a stack of magazines and the photo editor said "photograph them so they look good".
i couldn't for the life of me get one good photograph out of the pile, after 2 or 3 rolls of film and 3 or 4 hours.
what i would do now, 15 years later is just drop them on the floor/table, let FATE / CHANCE arrange them for me, and i would photograph that