Warmongers

V3 Annihilator comments here!

Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:40 am

by DarkbloodSkullpulper

I think move or fire is a big mistake for something with a 12" range. If you decide to playtest it that way, make sure to point out to yoiur opponent that it's the case. I think you'll see some very reduced effectiveness.

Move or fire would completely nerf the kill-box, and I suspect will take away a lot of the utility of the shoot-in-three-ranks BB idea.

Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:12 am

by Larro

I agree. Move or Fire on a 12" range gun seems horrific. Other units may be Move or Fire, but can impact the game from Turn 1 onward. These bad boys need to be able to Move and Shoot no matter which rules-set you adopt for their guns with only 12" range.

- Larry

Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:47 pm

by Poxous

A thought. The no. of shots is equal to the US of the target. So you fire at 25 infantry you roll 25 4+ to hit. You shoot at a dragon that is US6 you roll 6 4+ to hit. Simple, easy, and covers all targets easy.

Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:13 pm

by Voyager_3

Don't dare to drop death box! Chaos Dwarfs without fire zone are like Orcs & Goblins without... goblins. And please, stop talking that fire zone rules are too complicated, when we've got eg. completely unique magic system or juggernaut siege towers. The fire zone has been with Chaos Dwarfs since 5th edition and should stay. I think it only needs a light retouch. I've got two ideas.

1. Hit on Unit StrengthTemplate attack: 12" x unit's frontage size. All models, friend or foe, completely or partially under the template may be hit. Roll for each model the number of dice equal to it's Unit Strength. On a each roll of 4+ model is hit. Strength: 3 + 1 for each complete Blunderbussers' rank up to maximum of 5.

2. 5th editon likeNormal shot:Template attack: 12" x unit's frontage size. All models, friend or foe, completely or partially under the template may be hit. Roll a dice for each model. On a roll of 4+ model is hit. Strength: 3 + 1 for each complete Blunderbussers' rank up to maximum of 5.Concentrated fire:Missile weapon with profile: range: 12"; strength 3 + 1 for each complete Blunderbussers' rank up to maximum of 5. No penalties for moving and range. (So effectively, only first rank shoots rolling 'to hit'. Used mainly against large models or low model units.)

I think both propositions are neat and simple. And, what's more important, get along with fluff and tradition.

Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:46 pm

by Larro

I actually think that both Todd's and Voyager's suggestions are great. They keep the weapons primarily anti-Infantry, without completely being balls vs. non-Infantry, and they're easy to understand.

- Larry

Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:57 pm

by method

sounds good to me, i'll begin playtesting it that way..

Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:54 pm

by DarkbloodSkullpulper

Poxous wrote:A thought. The no. of shots is equal to the US of the target. So you fire at 25 infantry you roll 25 4+ to hit. You shoot at a dragon that is US6 you roll 6 4+ to hit. Simple, easy, and covers all targets easy.

Am I correct in thinking that in your concept, only models within 12" would be considered targets? i.e. if a unit of 25 goblins are ~10" away, you wouldn't roll to hit all 25 goblins, but only those 20 or so who are at least partly within 12"? I think the power-level starts to creep a bit when you start allowing shots at models that are more than 12" away.

If the decision comes down to oust the kill-box, I think this is the next-best option. The 5th ed. rules as restated by Voyager and others is still my preferred way to play.

Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:24 pm

by Larro

Personally, after re-reading the current V3 incarnation of the BB rules, I think they're perfectly fine as-is. Single-shot S3 option for light nonsense, and retain deathbox anti-infantry status without the clumsy deathbox rules.

- Larry

Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:02 pm

by Alric

What ever is ultimately decided please make room for a weapon profile for example: Blunderbuss - Range 12" , Strength S3+1 per rank up to S5 max. , move and fire.

Also if you use the "fire zone" rules please use "Roll to hit for each potential target using ballistic skill."

The worst part of the Ravening Hordes is that they left out the ballistic skill language so that you just roll a 4+. For veteran players they natuarlly know its a ballistic skill of 3 roll , but new players often dont make the connection even now many players dont know the weapons profile since its not formally stated in RH.

Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:34 pm

by Alric

Since I have the opportunity to do some play testing tomorrow night I'll try using the current v.3 rules as well as the "fire in 3 ranks" concept and will compare the two to the current RH rules.

I need a clarification on v.3 rules

Concentrated VolleyInstead of firing as normal, if all models in the front rank of the firing unit are within range, a unit with blunderbusses may fire a concentrated volley. The volley may target a single enemy unit as per normal targeting restrictions. Every models in the target unit may potentially be hit