infinity wrote:Ok so following this line of thought, wouldn't it mean that any kind of action, including GOOD ones, will affect not only future lives, but also past ones?

Yes. You have to think of multiple incarnations like an extended body--all connected. If you are walking down the road and your foot slips on a banana peel, then the rest of you goes in response. That is essentially how karma works, but across incarnations. It's just a little more elastic in the process.

Most people consider "past lives" as over and done with, totally unchangeable. Try considering a different perspective... that your past lives are "living" right along with this one, and you are all effecting each other, real-time. That you are more of a gestalt entity--one that spans multiple bodies and souls, through time and space. They all affect each other, which is why you get those intuitions on what is right/wrong--other lives pulling in specific directions when certain circumstances arise.

infinity wrote:On a second note, this reminds me of the gypsy-type curses spoken of on AQ (I think it was there? Or was it here on CH?) - how those can affect you over multiple lifetimes and can be a pain to get rid of. But from the sound of reciprocal relationships, that's the default for any kind of 'curse' effect. And be implication so would any 'blessing' effect.

Curses affect the soul--the body responds to the change in the soul. Since the soul is nonlocal (cosmic), it is connected to multiple "body" incarnations, so not only can a curse affect you, now, but you in the future and you in the past.

One of the things that the RS teaches is that time is 3-dimensional, so the trick is to stop thinking of that "arrow of time" we are always taught, and start thinking of it as movement through a landscape. There are a bunch of you walking around that landscape, leaving paths in the dirt (your "past") and still out exploring the terrain. If one life knocks a tree over the path, another life may come along and have to change their path to get around the obstruction you just made. Of course, that lifetime may heave the log out of the way and throw it into the woods, just where you happen to be camped out, and clobber your tent. In which case, you want to get even...

Once you understand this "internal causality" across time, you can see how karma works, and why many people tend to cause their own problems, battling with self. The psyche works the same way with unconscious content.

I think I have trouble grasping this. I thought I understood it when you explained the 3D landscape in your paper. But I still struggle getting rid of this arrow of time thinking. It sounds like the past is not necessarily fix and we can have influence on prior incarnations. But wouldn't this result in different actions taken by our past lives? And wouldn't this result in a different and always changing history?

I thought whatever happened, happened. If I were to read a school girl's diary written in 500 BCE about how certain circumstances put her on a specific route where she ended up falling in love and carving "Cornelia ♥ Augustus" somewhere in a cave with a description where this cave can be found and I if were to find it today, then I could surmise that this event really happened. It is fix. Isn't it? And her carving will stay in that cave, no matter if later incarnations of her cut down a tree or not (in 3D time).
Of course somebody could change the carving or the cave could be destroyed but it wouldn't change the fact that there once was a cave with that particular carving.

So how can prior incarnations be affected without history being affected at the same time? The logical answer would be that it can't. But if it is not fix, then why do we perceive it as such?

So how can prior incarnations be affected without history being affected at the same time? The logical answer would be that it can't. But if it is not fix, then why do we perceive it as such?

You are mixing "clock time" with "causality." They are different concepts.

All the "clock" is (clock time or clock space), is the datum of measurement for CHANGE. After 30 years of research, Larson finally concluded that the Universe is "nothing but abstract change, in three dimensions." It is simple... no clock, no change. Clock time gives us a way to measure changes of space. Clock space gives us a way to measure change of time.

Causality, on the other hand, is like a path running through the spatio-temporal landscape, like dinosaur footprints etched in rock. When you do past-life research, you find that trail of footprints and can see where it came from, where it went, and the features of the terrain that it passed--life experiences. With some effort, you can get out a chisel and remove some of the footprints and make etch in more footprints to make it look like a different path--but it did not actually CHANGE the original. It just "dusted it over." And when someone else comes along, they believe the faked tracks are the original, and head off in the wrong direction--and wrong consequences.

This path through the temporal wilderness is a trail of thought and memory. To fall back to mythology, consider Odin's two birds, Huginn and Muninn, who flew around the world each day to let the god know what was going on. They were taking a look at the paths left by others.

If you "go back in time" (actually "go back in the causal nexus") and kill your father, do you create a paradox of not being born, in order to go back and kill you father? NO... what you did was to fill in some tracks with dirt, and stomp some new tracks in the ground. The original tracks are still there, though now hidden from sight from other temporal travelers, whom will then come to the wrong conclusions.

Forget the "arrow of time" nonsense that conventional science pushes on you. Time is a landscape, a volume, not an arrow. Think of it as you would a spatial volume, but where your soul walks instead of your body.

daniel wrote:
If you "go back in time" (actually "go back in the causal nexus") and kill your father, do you create a paradox of not being born, in order to go back and kill you father? NO... what you did was to fill in some tracks with dirt, and stomp some new tracks in the ground. The original tracks are still there, though now hidden from sight from other temporal travelers, whom will then come to the wrong conclusions.

I understand but I am not talking about going back in time. I am talking about how my thoughts and actions today may influence a former incarnation resulting in turn in different thoughts and actions of that former incarnation and thus resulting in a complete different history."that your past lives are "living" right along with this one, and you are all effecting each other, real-time."
This sounds like nothing is fix and all our incarnations can constantly change paths on the 3d time landscape. Shouldn't this result in an ever changing memory? How can we possibly share a collective memory then?

But since you have mentioned the grandfather paradox, what effect would this have to our history books? Would they stay the same and our memory would deviate? Would this result in a new timeline?

daniel wrote:
Clock time gives us a way to measure changes of space.

And these changes of space seem very much fix at their respective clock time. My question is why that is if we are able to influence past lives in real-time. Let's use another example:
Tim buried a treasure chest full of gold, draws a vague map leading to it and then dies.
At some point he reincarnates as Tom and reads about Tim and his map in a history book. He is the first to unriddle the map and to find the treasure. He has the choice to either live a luxury life or to give the gold to people in need.
Question: Can Tom's thoughts and actions have any influence on the thoughts and actions of his former incarnation, Tim, perhaps even to that extent that Tim wouldn't bury the treasure in the first place but instead have a change of heart and give the gold to people in need? (=increase of amount of gold on earth because now there would be two treasure chests, which would mean matter was created out of nothing. Seems unlikely or where is the counterweight?)

daniel wrote:
Forget the "arrow of time" nonsense that conventional science pushes on you. Time is a landscape, a volume, not an arrow. Think of it as you would a spatial volume, but where your soul walks instead of your body.

This is easier said that done. And it is not really conventional science that pushes it on me but rather my own experience because so far I have not yet consciously perceived time to be a 3-dimensional landscape. My closest understanding of it would be through my dreams but I don't leave any footprints just by dreaming, do I?

I am only trying to wrap my head around this new concept of influencing an older incarnation without having any consequence on our collectively shared causality (past/present/future).

Talking about 3d time to a "muggle" must be as difficult as describing colors to a blind person.

This sounds like nothing is fix and all our incarnations can constantly change paths on the 3d time landscape. Shouldn't this result in an ever changing memory? How can we possibly share a collective memory then?

Actually, people are really stubborn and don't listen to themselves from other incarnations. (Part of that Tier 1 vMeme mindset.)

Anyone who has experienced DejaVu has gotten a message from the future. Could just be the soul seeing something at a distance in the temporal landscape, or a future memory of the situation you are presently experiencing--that "have I been here before, or am I yet to arrive?" And when DejaVu occurs--do you change the path you are on? Probably NOT, because by the time you comprehend the message, it is too late to do anything about it.

Remember that in any kind of coordinate system, there are three components: the aggregatus (the whole), the loci (locations) and the nexi (connecting paths). It is easy to visualize as a spider's web, where the web is the whole, the filaments are the nexi and where the filaments cross are the loci.

Collective memory is the web, itself (the Matrix). It does not matter how it is shaped or bent, it's still a web. Within that web, one can modify nexi by pulling a thread, and the associated loci also change. One can yank a filament to cross another and form a new locus. But we are no where strong enough to pull very hard on that web--perhaps a millimeter or so, so the net effect is really unnoticeable. Yes, things are in constant flux, but is minor--the overall web, viewed from far enough back, does not seem to change.

But since you have mentioned the grandfather paradox, what effect would this have to our history books? Would they stay the same and our memory would deviate? Would this result in a new timeline?

One person does not create a significant change to jump to a new timeline. For that, you need the impetus of a species--one of the objectives of the NWO to control the minds of humanity, so they think what they want them to think, to influence future direction.

Tim buried a treasure chest full of gold, draws a vague map leading to it and then dies.
At some point he reincarnates as Tom and reads about Tim and his map in a history book. He is the first to unriddle the map and to find the treasure. He has the choice to either live a luxury life or to give the gold to people in need.
Question: Can Tom's thoughts and actions have any influence on the thoughts and actions of his former incarnation, Tim, perhaps even to that extent that Tim wouldn't bury the treasure in the first place but instead have a change of heart and give the gold to people in need? (=increase of amount of gold on earth because now there would be two treasure chests, which would mean matter was created out of nothing. Seems unlikely or where is the counterweight?)

Well, the Tim's memory went to the future to influence Tom to research maps in history books. Tim may have picked up the location of where to bury the treasure from Tom's future map, but it would be like DejaVu--an impulse, not a clear memory. When you cross incarnations, it is crossing a unit boundary, so "magnitude only." You can send a push/pull, but not "coordinate data" (specific instructions). Tom could also push a "don't do it" to Tim, and Tim would have "second thoughts" about burying the treasure, but would probably do it anyway, because as I said, people ignore the subtle influences from other lives, so not much would change.

What they discovered during the Montauk experiments was that it is virtually impossible to make any sort of difference, because of the isolation across time caused by the "discrete unit" system.

However, knowing this, you CAN start to listen to those future echos, those impulses and "out of nowhere" feelings, that can help you to improve your current incarnation.

People seldom realize that the major choices in their life HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE prior to incarnation, from the influence of other lives. And their decisions to do something are usually just acceptance of what they already chose to do. When you hear the future echos you realize this, and stop fighting your personal destiny--then things evolve much faster.

Talking about 3d time to a "muggle" must be as difficult as describing colors to a blind person.

Unlike color, time works exactly the same as space... just inversely (inside-out from our perspective). Colors to the blind are a completely different set of rules... space and time have identical rules. Try thinking with your heart, rather than your mind.

This sounds like nothing is fix and all our incarnations can constantly change paths on the 3d time landscape. Shouldn't this result in an ever changing memory? How can we possibly share a collective memory then?

Actually, people are really stubborn and don't listen to themselves from other incarnations. (Part of that Tier 1 vMeme mindset.)

This so real to me. I have the feeling that all of history is happening at once. We are focused on where we are like looking through a microscope. If you would pull back from the microscope and look around you see other surrounding. Then again if you went to a tall building you would see more. And then if you go high enough you would see the world we live in. What is changing is the perspective. That was all physical and something we can relate too. Now if you do the same thing but in your mind, like a dream, you can see multiple situations. Your family, friends, community, country and world. Now take that layout and place them all one over the other in a 3D portrait. That is your life. Now place all your life over your other lives you might have live before or in the future. As you back up from that mix you see your soul or spirit connecting all of your lives together. That is what is moving everything that is you, your spirit. You might be able to adjust one life one way but in doing so one of your other lives adjust to compensate.

Anyone who has experienced DejaVu has gotten a message from the future. Could just be the soul seeing something at a distance in the temporal landscape, or a future memory of the situation you are presently experiencing--that "have I been here before, or am I yet to arrive?" And when DejaVu occurs--do you change the path you are on? Probably NOT, because by the time you comprehend the message, it is too late to do anything about it.

Remember that in any kind of coordinate system, there are three components: the aggregatus (the whole), the loci (locations) and the nexi (connecting paths). It is easy to visualize as a spider's web, where the web is the whole, the filaments are the nexi and where the filaments cross are the loci.

Collective memory is the web, itself (the Matrix). It does not matter how it is shaped or bent, it's still a web. Within that web, one can modify nexi by pulling a thread, and the associated loci also change. One can yank a filament to cross another and form a new locus. But we are no where strong enough to pull very hard on that web--perhaps a millimeter or so, so the net effect is really unnoticeable. Yes, things are in constant flux, but is minor--the overall web, viewed from far enough back, does not seem to change.

Now take your spirit and its lives and add all the others that are alive around us. Gets pretty complicated huh!

One person does not create a significant change to jump to a new timeline. For that, you need the impetus of a species--one of the objectives of the NWO to control the minds of humanity, so they think what they want them to think, to influence future direction.

Now take humanity's spirits and add other type beings of all sizes and shapes thru out the know universe and overlay them together. Whoa!

Tim buried a treasure chest full of gold, draws a vague map leading to it and then dies.
At some point he reincarnates as Tom and reads about Tim and his map in a history book. He is the first to unriddle the map and to find the treasure. He has the choice to either live a luxury life or to give the gold to people in need.
Question: Can Tom's thoughts and actions have any influence on the thoughts and actions of his former incarnation, Tim, perhaps even to that extent that Tim wouldn't bury the treasure in the first place but instead have a change of heart and give the gold to people in need? (=increase of amount of gold on earth because now there would be two treasure chests, which would mean matter was created out of nothing. Seems unlikely or where is the counterweight?)

Well, the Tim's memory went to the future to influence Tom to research maps in history books. Tim may have picked up the location of where to bury the treasure from Tom's future map, but it would be like DejaVu--an impulse, not a clear memory. When you cross incarnations, it is crossing a unit boundary, so "magnitude only." You can send a push/pull, but not "coordinate data" (specific instructions). Tom could also push a "don't do it" to Tim, and Tim would have "second thoughts" about burying the treasure, but would probably do it anyway, because as I said, people ignore the subtle influences from other lives, so not much would change.

What they discovered during the Montauk experiments was that it is virtually impossible to make any sort of difference, because of the isolation across time caused by the "discrete unit" system.

However, knowing this, you CAN start to listen to those future echos, those impulses and "out of nowhere" feelings, that can help you to improve your current incarnation.

Boy does it ever help! Going from finding out about it, seeing how it works and then coming to the realization that you can influence what is happening is a trip.

People seldom realize that the major choices in their life HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE prior to incarnation, from the influence of other lives. And their decisions to do something are usually just acceptance of what they already chose to do. When you hear the future echos you realize this, and stop fighting your personal destiny--then things evolve much faster.

Unlike color, time works exactly the same as space... just inversely (inside-out from our perspective). Colors to the blind are a completely different set of rules... space and time have identical rules. Try thinking with your heart, rather than your mind.