I think that's the point of what I was saying. They know a set % is going to vote the other side. They fight for the 5% that can swing both ways. The actual % of independents is 30%, but most made up their minds a long time ago.

That's correct and is what you are saying. But unfortunately for Romney, he went a couple of steps further.

He claimed that the already "made up their mind" % was 47 (rather larger than the truth, IMO). He conflated that 47% who have already "made up their minds" with the 47% who do not pay income tax (untrue given the groups who make up that 47%).

If his statement were limited to what you are saying, I'd have no problem with it. Because it goes further, in the above two respects, I think there are (quite fairly, and obviously) issues with what he said.

September 20th, 2012, 5:01 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Right-wing radio: Romney loses, GOP dies

Instead of a new thread I threw this in here for a quick discussion, move it if you'd like.

What would constitute a Tyrannical Government in the 21st Century? Isn't Tyranny a power or control based form of governing, in that you have the power class trying to keep control by over legislation, and rules meant, disguised, or forced onto the public as a "basic need, or human right"?

So why does it APPEAR that a tyrannical government is being developed, and is NOT fully realized as of yet, but we are choosing to walk, lock, stock, and barrel into it's arms?

We, as a society, no longer teach personal responsibility, our work ethics have changed, and we trade personal freedom for what? Our forefathers knew what Tyranny was having lived it, and now the freedom that they tasted in the New World was so much better, but it APPEARs that we are being forced back into the arms of Tyranny, and we aren't "fighting back".

Does anyone remember 1980's Russia? Food lines outside of stores waiting to receive whatever the Govt. chose to dispense? You went to school based upon your aptitude and the needs of the govt. not your own choices. Are we seriously that so far removed that we forget that easily?

Lomas: aren't you originally from Poland, was life worse or better under Communism? How was it when Lecht Walenza (sp?) I think he was the man who came from the common people and became PM, took over and led Poland to where they are today?

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

September 24th, 2012, 12:02 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Right-wing radio: Romney loses, GOP dies

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Instead of a new thread I threw this in here for a quick discussion, move it if you'd like.

What would constitute a Tyrannical Government in the 21st Century? Isn't Tyranny a power or control based form of governing, in that you have the power class trying to keep control by over legislation, and rules meant, disguised, or forced onto the public as a "basic need, or human right"?

So why does it APPEAR that a tyrannical government is being developed, and is NOT fully realized as of yet, but we are choosing to walk, lock, stock, and barrel into it's arms?

We, as a society, no longer teach personal responsibility, our work ethics have changed, and we trade personal freedom for what? Our forefathers knew what Tyranny was having lived it, and now the freedom that they tasted in the New World was so much better, but it APPEARs that we are being forced back into the arms of Tyranny, and we aren't "fighting back".

Does anyone remember 1980's Russia? Food lines outside of stores waiting to receive whatever the Govt. chose to dispense? You went to school based upon your aptitude and the needs of the govt. not your own choices. Are we seriously that so far removed that we forget that easily?

Lomas: aren't you originally from Poland, was life worse or better under Communism? How was it when Lecht Walenza (sp?) I think he was the man who came from the common people and became PM, took over and led Poland to where they are today?

It's really kind of like you don't live in the US. Where do you see tyranny, or it developing?

September 24th, 2012, 6:53 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Right-wing radio: Romney loses, GOP dies

Eric: REALLY? Can you not see it?

1/6 of our economy has been taken over by the government by Obamacare.

Through Obamacare, non-muslims will be TAXED for not taking part in the government healthcare program.

You don't see this as being to intrusive into the lives of American Citizens?

I realize that you haven't served in the Armed Forces, and any Vet or current member of those Armed Services can tell you that Government ANYTHING is middle of the road.

Testing for advancement: done at an 8th grade level, can't make it too hard for the lower aptitude, but just challenging enough for the higher aptitudeGovernment Healthcare: VA need I say more?

This ISN'T party related, I'm asking a legitimate question in regards to the power grabs that are or have been going on. Now keep in mind that my perspective is PROBABLY flavored by my Conservative nature, but still, it appears blatantly obvious to me, and I'm shocked that others can't or won't see it.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

September 25th, 2012, 8:42 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Right-wing radio: Romney loses, GOP dies

I went a little further and checked on the word Tyranny via dictionary.com, it provided a discription of a severe government that imposes it's rule. Then a little further it listed examples of tyranny and this is what I found.

The founding document of the United States Of America is the Declaration of Independence, which was famously signed and put into effect on July 4, 1776. This document was an official statement from the Continental Congress of the the thirteen colonies that stated that they considered themselves a separate sovereign national from England. This declaration was not prepared in haste without a . consideration for its consequences. It was discussed, argued for and against, and finally it was voted on.The Declaration of Independence can be divided into several sections. The first part is the Preamble which proclaims that "all men are created equal" and are "endowed by their Creator" with the rights to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Such a statement was very unique for its time. Up and till the Declaration of Independence governments were seen as lords over their subjects. But this new document declared that all men are equal and that their common rights were given to them by God so that no man or government could justly take them away.The second section is a list of grievances or complaints that the American colonies had against King George III of England. This was the section that clearly stated why the colonies were breaking away from England. In the Declaration is was stated that no people should throw off a long established government for "light and transient causes". Therefore the signers wanted to prove that separation from England was necessary based upon a long list of horrible violations committed by the English crown. These violations included taxation without representation, the right of English soldiers to commandeer anyone's property for their own use and the uncalled for killing of colonials by the English military. Finally, the colonists stated that they had been unsuccessful in trying to resolve these problems so they therefore had the right to become independent. You can find more information here: bensguide.gpo.gov More reference links: www.barefootsworld.netwww.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com

In reading through that, specific examples come to mind. Taxation without representation, Obamacare. The right to commandeer anyone's property, via Dhimmitude, again in Obamacare. When this current administration runs up against a rule of law within our Constitution that he can not remove, he sidesteps it, and uses an Executive Order. Therefore, this alienates the people who do not support his agenda or vision, and eliminates any communication because he will not bend to the will of the people. Doesn't that discribe a tyrant? Even if he's wearing sheeps clothing?

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

That's taxation with representation. If Obama wins in November, Obamacare stays even if you don't like it. If Obama loses, it goes. That's the very opposite of tyranny.

September 25th, 2012, 11:12 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Right-wing radio: Romney loses, GOP dies

not necessarily, since when has anything been repealed by any side? They might remove parts of it, but not the whole measure. Kind of like sifting through to keep what you like and discard the rest.

I believe we are already at terminal velocity, because IF Obama is removed from office, he still man's the desk till Jan. 29, there's a lot of damage that can be inflicted during those two months. Not only that, imagine the "class warfare" that could happen because America voted out the minority President. Not saying it's a scare tactic, but it is something to consider as a POSSIBLITY.

If Obama is leaving, do you think he, or Congress is going to do anything to divert the economic CATASTROPHE that is our taxes coming up at the end of the year? People are calling it a "cliff".

I am currently trying to get a copy of a "prophecy" that was given that speaks to the very economic collapse and instability thereafter. It was described as a cliff, very clearly. When I get it, I will post it in the Christianity Thread so as not to divert peoples attention.

But as I was saying, with the power grabs, and authority that has been exerted over Mr. and Mrs. North America, it seems pretty clear that the Central US government is infringing on our rights, and using whatever bait and switch tactics to do it. Whether it be, homeland security and fear to control our movement through TSA, or buying up old cars to that could get rid of the older NON - Computer controlled vehicles, and much more. As I said, I'm looking at this and can't believe that we are so used to what's going on, that we can't realize it. It's like trying to boil a frog, you don't throw him in boiling water, you set him in the pan and slowly heat the water to boiling. Before he knows it, he's dead, it's just been done incrimentally.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

September 25th, 2012, 1:33 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Right-wing radio: Romney loses, GOP dies

WarEr4Christ wrote:

As I said, I'm looking at this and can't believe that we are so used to what's going on, that we can't realize it. It's like trying to boil a frog, you don't throw him in boiling water, you set him in the pan and slowly heat the water to boiling. Before he knows it, he's dead, it's just been done incrimentally.

I have to point out this is being said by someone who will vote for either Coke or Pepsi and can't seem to realize it. My friend - YOU ARE THE FROG!

I had a feeling this was coming, BUT I being a Born Again Christian Conservative, I can not condone, nor accept the more left leaning, anarchal oriented party known as Libertarians.

Freedom carries a price, and although MOST of their political beliefs I would agree with, I vehemently disagree with their views on everyone is free to do as they wish. I might have stated this too generically, but in looking at the Libertarian website to find out what their core beliefs are, what rings through is that they do not subscribe, nor submit to a central authority. Again, I may not be saying that right and I'll try to look it up and quote the point that I struggle with the most so as to prevent an argument.

But until the TEA party Conservatives become their own standing, viable party, I will associate with them, even though they are "somewhat" absorbed in the Pepsi. I guess you'd have to consider me the ice cube floating in the glass.

Still, are my observations on tyranny that far off?

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

September 25th, 2012, 3:47 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Right-wing radio: Romney loses, GOP dies

WarEr4Christ wrote:

:shock:

Eric: REALLY? Can you not see it?

1/6 of our economy has been taken over by the government by Obamacare.

Through Obamacare, non-muslims will be TAXED for not taking part in the government healthcare program.

You don't see this as being to intrusive into the lives of American Citizens?

I realize that you haven't served in the Armed Forces, and any Vet or current member of those Armed Services can tell you that Government ANYTHING is middle of the road.

Testing for advancement: done at an 8th grade level, can't make it too hard for the lower aptitude, but just challenging enough for the higher aptitudeGovernment Healthcare: VA need I say more?

This ISN'T party related, I'm asking a legitimate question in regards to the power grabs that are or have been going on. Now keep in mind that my perspective is PROBABLY flavored by my Conservative nature, but still, it appears blatantly obvious to me, and I'm shocked that others can't or won't see it.

Dude... get a grip... this is all plain wrong.

Obamacare doesn't take over the industry - it REGULATES the private industry! There is no governement takeover of anything. The only thing new is, impoverished males will have eligibility to get coverage under medicaide in many places. What are you talking about here???

General Motors had a government-facilitated bankruptcy, and then went public again - it is a PUBlIC company on a stock exchange! So what if the Government owns stock in exchange for helping them out? That isn't controlling stock. What are you talking about here???

There have been NO federal easing of work restriction for welfare, man. Where do you get your information? The President, at the request of MANY state governors including Republican governors, simply gave the states MORE freedom to be flexible for welfare within their states - and the reason they asked him to do that was because they felt it would help them help people get back to work. The Republicans are whining about how the states should have the power, and when it happens now you're complaining about that? What are you talking about here???

WarEr4Christ wrote:

In reading through that, specific examples come to mind. Taxation without representation, Obamacare. The right to commandeer anyone's property, via Dhimmitude, again in Obamacare. When this current administration runs up against a rule of law within our Constitution that he can not remove, he sidesteps it, and uses an Executive Order. Therefore, this alienates the people who do not support his agenda or vision, and eliminates any communication because he will not bend to the will of the people. Doesn't that discribe a tyrant? Even if he's wearing sheeps clothing?

No... It is NOT taxation without representation. CONGRESS passed the bill, dude - that is your representation. Congress certainly has the power to tax. Constitutionally. So what are you talking about here??

Look.... I have no idea what you're getting at with the military stuff... of course the military draws an emormous amount of volunteers who really don't have other opportunities, and may of those are the least educated. But that has nothing to do with tyranny at all - that's just noise in this conversation.

It is clearl - again - that you have terrible, uninformed sources. Nothing you said here points to tyranny at all. Your points about tyranny are completely wrong.

Lastly ... Did you know that Federal government employment has DE-creased under Obama, and that is part of the reason why unemployment hasn't improved as much as they expected? There are upwards of 1.5-2.0 million federal jobs less now than under Bush.

Last edited by I.E. on September 25th, 2012, 4:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

September 25th, 2012, 4:24 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Right-wing radio: Romney loses, GOP dies

By the way, everyone - a frog will not sit in water brought to a boil. It is a metaphor - a "slippery-slope" logical argument, which is a logical fallacy.

September 25th, 2012, 4:27 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Right-wing radio: Romney loses, GOP dies

Eric,

I'm sorry but I read through your responses, and I continue to be dumbfounded by your questions. But, again, I see this as being a tarbaby, and you and I will just keep pounding and pounding on this, and would ultimately get us no where. So nevermind, I'm not even going to try.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

I had a feeling this was coming, BUT I being a Born Again Christian Conservative, I can not condone, nor accept the more left leaning, anarchal oriented party known as Libertarians.

Freedom carries a price, and although MOST of their political beliefs I would agree with, I vehemently disagree with their views on everyone is free to do as they wish. I might have stated this too generically, but in looking at the Libertarian website to find out what their core beliefs are, what rings through is that they do not subscribe, nor submit to a central authority. Again, I may not be saying that right and I'll try to look it up and quote the point that I struggle with the most so as to prevent an argument.

But until the TEA party Conservatives become their own standing, viable party, I will associate with them, even though they are "somewhat" absorbed in the Pepsi. I guess you'd have to consider me the ice cube floating in the glass.

Still, are my observations on tyranny that far off?

To a certain extent... its more of a "Mind our Own business" attitude. The only thing libertarians ask is that our government serves to protect our inherent rights.

Everything else is our own personal responsibility and we should be held accountable for our actions. It also means I respect your personal beliefs and lifestyle but I dont believe it should be applied to everybody. I think marriage, for example, should not be recognized by the state. Because the state recognizes marriage they are defining it from a christian perspective and therefore mixing the church and state. You may not have a problem with that since it agrees with your position, but at the end of the day it discriminates against muslims, mormons, gays, etc. This is why I'm a libertarian... I have my own personal beliefs, you have yours, and we should all be able to live without the government defining our beliefs. Less Government Less Problems.

Some people are more or less extreme. Just like any party there are different types of members... in the libertarian party some people could be almost called anarcho-capitalists, other just want a smaller limited government. I would like to see our over seas presence diminished at least by 50%. I would like the majority of our social programs ended. the only thing I'd like our government involved in is protecting our borders, and investing in our military and nations infrastructure to keep us up to date. We dont need 2000+ warheads, 11 aircraft carriers, 100+ bases... we just need the best.

_________________“Jim's a dynamic man with incredible determination, willpower and energy. He's the ultimate in a driven person who has high expectations. The people around him respond. He's on the cutting edge with an outstanding football mind.” - Bill Walsh

September 25th, 2012, 8:20 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Right-wing radio: Romney loses, GOP dies

So here's a question as it relates to Mod Niners response.

How many times have we stated that DEFENSE wins Championships? Now apply this to a country. Much of what has kept the United States free is the fact that we are able to deliver a very decisive and destructive blow throughout the world.

During the Cold War, the back and forth race kept Russia from overstepping it's bounds, and the likewise was true too. Then when their economy crashed or it became too expensive for them to keep the pace, they basically had to restructure and went to a Russo-Capitalist regime that is still Communist at heart, but embraces the basics of capitalism which has led them to unprecedented wealth, to the extent that their own people LOVE their new found financial freedoms and are thriving with new found goods.

On the contrary, the US is being forced by it's leadership, into a socialist and FAILED system of government that gives the power to the central authority, and they dish out the crumbs to their people as THEY see fit. In four years or just under, we've seen an increase in welfare recipients, unemployment benefits at 99 weeks, a new incoming health scare system that is really a tax, and so on.

I find it amusing how so many people tout Jefferson's separation of Church and State, but in truth the document was not meant to separate the Church from the State, but the State from the Church in that the State could NOT dictate to the Church.

Thank you for reminding me of the area of difficulty I have with Libertarians.

They lift up personal responsibility, but remove the Control structure. Think of it like a science experiment. You have your positive, your negative and your control. The control is your base, and it is what you weigh the results of the other two off of. From MY perspective, personal liberty to act and do as you see fit is too Liberal. We have a basic set of rules and laws that have been established and stood the test of time. It hasn't been until the Judicial Branch started legislating from the bench and overstepping their bounds as the Judicial Branch, that our Constitution has been whittled, and "redefined" in order to accomodate the new plan. Now we have an Executive Branch that sides with the Judicial Branch, and most of the Legislative Branch to overwhelm the will of the people. When the Constitution comes up against their plan or something they wish to do, and they can't get it done through the normal channels, it has been side stepped by Executive Order, or flat out ignored.

Now throw in PRAVDA, I mean main stream media propaganda machine, and you have a one sided machine that will not educate the masses about what is REALLY happening, and how this WILL affect this nation now, and for years to come. With the current media propaganda machine not doing it's job, not "vetting" the President or his policies, then you have uneducated masses who really don't care as long as they continue to receive their benefits.

I'm gettin tired, and starting to ramble so I'll close for now. Thanks y'all

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."