Plain and simple why is the military still using the Beretta and not the Glock?

11-19-2012, 01:01 PM

FUPAGUNT

Beretta offered a cheaper price? Who knows

11-19-2012, 01:07 PM

Stagman

Glock is more reliable and weighs less

11-19-2012, 01:13 PM

FUPAGUNT

Its all about the dolla dolla bill..

11-19-2012, 01:17 PM

MIAMI MATT

That way they can spend more on an inferior product.Probably the same reason they keep a surplus of 2 electronic staplers at 65.00 ea.Per administrative employee.Why anyone would need a electronic stapler in the first place is beyond me.

11-19-2012, 03:02 PM

flyandscuba

We wanted air bases in Italy at the time when the combat sidearm was being selected. Even though it wasn't the best firearm -- the M9 Beretta got the nod... It's the same reason why the USCG ended up with the H-65 Dauphine from France -- and the HC-144 Sentry from Spain... Politics.

11-19-2012, 04:34 PM

GlockGuy

HEY everyone freeze. I know for a fact the military does use Glocks they are just not the standard issue for all military personell standard is the m9 but they do issue glocks to specific organizations such as the STS (Special tactics squadron) and some others

11-19-2012, 04:38 PM

flyandscuba

Yeah, the USCG boarding teams use the Sig in .40 S&W - with JHP ammo... Since they are under DHS rather than DOD during peace time.

Also, certain elements of the USMC have recently placed an order for "new" Colt 1911s in 45 ACP.

11-19-2012, 11:16 PM

Gravity3694

I believe the reason is multifold. Glock didn't make it on the market in time for the trails. Also, the military specification wanted a hammer and a manual safety. After investing 25 years into the M9, it takes a lot to change.

The M9 isn't a bad choice, the military is a little lazy when it comes to fixing broken or worn parts like locking blocks and junk mags, so at times the M9 does get a bad reputation. However, given todays market, the M9 wouldn't be my first choice.

11-20-2012, 06:16 AM

SAWMAN

Back during the time frame that the military was contemplating a change from the 1911's I was an armoror/rangemaster at a NAS. I was ordered to Crane,Ind. for some "conferences" to cuss and discuss all this stuff. I was an extremely small part of this process but I did get to sit back and watch.

SCARY !!! Back in the day I was always told that "the weapon that you trust to save your life is produced by the LOWSET bidder". DAMN RIGHT !!

Bottom line......the end decision was strictly political. That's it. Bottom line. Jeff Cooper probably had a "vapor lock". He is NOT a big believer in the "spray and pray" training method. Since that decision the members of the US military have been coming up with ingenious ways to get around using the POS(IMO)Beretta 92. That I know of... NONE...of the Spec Ops guys want to have anything to do with the Beretta. What does that tell you. ---- SAWMAN

11-20-2012, 05:40 PM

tinman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stagman

Glock is more reliable and weighs less

You must tell MM that. Sure he appreciates the weight thing now.

11-20-2012, 07:11 PM

zydeco

The USAF already had a major Air Base in Italy, so that was not a player. Have two friends who participated in the trials, one for the Army and one for the USAF. The competitors were Smith, Colt, H&K, Star, Sig, FN, and Beretta. Glock did not have an entry in the competition. The Army test came down to two - Sig and Beretta. Beretta won out due to costs. The USAF tests came down to one failure to feed after thousands of rounds, and that single failure was a Sig failure. Breaks my heart, cause I would pick Sig all the way. Colt's entry was the Double Eagle and was a POS. Smith and the other competitors were not much better. Most of them broke routinely. In the USAF tests, the only firearms that did not break were Beretta and Sig. None of the pistols were cleaned and were fired for thousands of rounds. In the end it came down to the single FTF.

11-20-2012, 08:58 PM

GlockGuy

The military uses alot of brands of firearms. Just because they are not issued to everyone does not mean no one in them military uses them... like Sig, Glock, H&K of course the standard issue is berreta M9 and colt m4 but there is alot of stuff out there different organizations ues

11-21-2012, 07:37 AM

Stagman

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlockGuy

The military uses alot of brands of firearms. Just because they are not issued to everyone does not mean no one in them military uses them... like Sig, Glock, H&K of course the standard issue is berreta M9 and colt m4 but there is alot of stuff out there different organizations ues

I'm talking about standard issue. Does anybody know when the military might decide to change their side arm.

11-21-2012, 04:15 PM

Gravity3694

Here's an excellent article on that discusses the procurement process and criticisms of the 92 series.

The military,at least the USN,DID test the Glock 17. I was there...I saw it. Ask the "Glock Man". He is the guy at some of the gunshows that sell glock parts ONLY. (His table is manned by he and his wife. She knows about as much about Glocks as he does.) He worked for Glock at the time. Don't know how official it was and all that stuff but Glock was there. A great story to come later. --- SAWMAN

11-21-2012, 08:44 PM

wildrider666

The results of the Austrian trials sparked a wave of interest in Western Europe and overseas, particularly in the United States, where a similar effort to select a service-wide replacement for the M1911 had been ongoing since the late 1970s (known as the Joint Service Small Arms Program). In late 1983, the United States Department of Defense inquired about the Glock pistol and received four samples of the Glock 17 for unofficial evaluation. Glock was then invited to participate in the XM9 Personal Defense Pistol Trials, but declined because the DOD specifications would require extensive retooling of production equipment and providing 35 test samples in an unrealistic time frame.

The article mentions the M9 slide failures but there was another "Manufactured Defect" My Brand New USMC Issue M9 had cracks inside the barrel above the lug that went across the lans and grooves! Found more bad barrels in the Unit. I think there were 39 bad barrels found Fleet wide. There were also problems with cracked frames. More then 12,000 M9 were rejected by the Army due to frame failures of samples AT THE FACTORY. This GAO report will show you where the cracks are: http://archive.gao.gov/d16t6/136824.pdf

Did you know with the M9 there is a 3000 round Slide replacement recommendation from the Factory? Yes, not a typo 3000 rounds!!!

Marines have kicked the Beretta M9 to the curb. MARADMIN 378/07 Posted : Monday Jun 25, 2007 17:19:57 EDT Directed a realignment of Marine T/O weapons.
What this says is if you are a Col or Gen. you get a pistol. If you are a LtCol and below you get a M4/M16 with some exemptions for special equipment operators.

During the conference in Crane, Ind. we were invited into a large room. There was a set of 8ft tables all pushed end to end,probably 6 of them. We all arrived and got coffee and started telling "sea stories". Soon some military brass and a couple civilians walked in. They had a couple of large boxes that had Glock 17's in them. They locked the action open then they threw(yep, THREW)them down the tables until everyone had one in front of them.

They stared taking about them and telling us about their operation. After a couple breaks and an hour or so, the civilians walked us thru a COMPLETE disassembly. They passed the boxes down the table and told us to put("throw") all the parts in the boxes. One guy shook up the boxes with all the parts in them and dumped them,rather violently,on the tables.

They then began to show us,step by step,how to reassemble the pistols. We all would simply grab a part as needed. When they all were reassembled we walked from there to the next building that had a firing line. We each shot 7 or 8 mags thru each weapon. Some mags as fast as we could pull the trigger. To say the least,we were all really surprised that the weapons functioned properly with NO FTF's or FTE's.

As stated....IMO the no Glocks thing was political. --- SAWMAN

11-23-2012, 08:23 PM

ted-hurst

I was in the Marines from 1983 to 2003 and the rumor I heard was that the Glocks didn't have an external safety (they didn't consider the trigger as a safety), but in reality it probably was money and politics.

Ted

11-23-2012, 08:38 PM

FrankT

Yep Ted that is what i always heard, no external safety no contract, they knew even then the officers could not be trusted w a weapon and if they were it had to have the external one!

11-23-2012, 08:50 PM

ted-hurst

It didn't stop our MP's, they were playing quick draw at the gate one night and one of them shot himself in the leg on MCAS Beaufort.