RE: "WHo said you can only look at the 4 gospels for eye witness testimony?" No one - you can look at Spiderman comic books if it makes you feel better, but the topic of my post were the four "Gospels" - If I were writing about mocking birds, would you feel justified in getting upset because I didn't mention parakeets?

Since all of the gospels were written at least decades after Jesus' death, is it surprising that there are no accounts directly disputing his existence or supposed acts? In those days, I bet 35 or 40 years was an average lifespan. So, by the time the gospels were written (not The Bible, which was aggregated later), probably there were few if any actual potential witnesses.

That 10 of them died...? Who says they did? What is your independent-of-the-Bible confirmation of that factoid?

BTW, the Gospel of John isn't in The Bible for good reason. That not only according to the original aggregators, who doubted its verity, but contemporary Bible scholars as well.

We don't have to disprove the existence or acts of Jesus any more than if you were arguing the existence and acts of Paul Bunyan.

In the event anyone is wondering where Dale gets all of his crap, allow me to introduce you to a 10th-grade "History" book, World History and Cultures In Christian Perspective, 2nd Ed., published in 1997 - an updated version was due in 2010, but I've yet to get any word on that.

The best way to counter public schools’ subtle secular indoctrination, the Christian education movement reasons, is to douse Christian boys and girls with a bucket of unsubtle religious indoctrination. So it really should be no surprise that the second page of a world history book would include a screed on the dangers of science:

Man has rebelled against God in many ways throughout the ages, but perhaps no more defiantly than in his denial of God’s role as the Creator. In an attempt to escape their accountability to God, some people credit evolution, a fabled process of progressive change dependent on chance and time, with the origin of life on earth.

Evolutionists claim that man 'evolved' from the animals; they downplay man’s special characteristics of speech, reason, morality, and free will and portray him as just a 'highly evolved' animal. They promote their false philosophy under the guise of science, but evolution is no science; it is a faith, a feeble alternative to faith in God.

The consequences of evolutionary thinking testify to the destructiveness of this false philosophy; in modern times, the broad acceptance of evolution has led to such evils as abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia. In his rebellion against God, man has succeeded only in hurting himself (p. 4).

Recently a couisen offered my family a free horse, because they were going to the mid-west to get ready for the 12/21/2012 end of world. A few days ago the they backed out of the gifted horse idea, maybe they thought that they could ride out and onto the waiting UFO? We spent 2.5 months building a horse barn and setting fencing! Oh well...LOL LOL LOL!

Many folks in my family 'assume' that I am one of the smartest people in the family, because of my science & philosophy interest. I am one of the few people with a funny/crazy sense of humor. I told her about a pre-columbian philosophy class I took years ago, and had mentioned that there was no Mayan end of world prediction, only an end of calendar and recycle. This might have just sunk in or she thought that I was being 'funny'.

Ever read 'When Prophesy Fails'?

As our conversations concerning the horse became more and more concrete plans, I noticed what appeared to be an approach/avoidence conflict within the conversations. Sadly my wife was just gungho on receiving the horse, while I was focused on building the barn, but feeling the streach of nuttyness slowly kick in. The day of the horse transport caused the final break, with us left holding the 'barn'. Now we have a 10' x 16' open covered space, that is level, water proof, and with power/lights. A little more than I wanted, but maybe an addition to our/my shop/lab space. Wifey still thinks a horse could be had in the spring. I have a look out for a recycled rocking horse as a symbolic compromise.

My cousin, I do hope her dear soul is not abandoned on the nearest asteroid, once the aliens get sick of the 'bad service' complaints from the passengers....LOL