HOLE BY HOLE DESCRIPTIONS FOR LAKE OLMSTEAD POOLS 1, 2 & 3 Par 56
POOL 1 IS ALL PROS, AND ALL ADVANCED MEN
POOL 2 IS ALL INTERMEDIATE MEN
POOL 3 IS RECREATIONAL MEN AND WOMEN
SOME HOLES WILL HAVE POOLS 1&2 TOGETHER, AND SOME HOLES WLL HAVE POOLS 2&3 TOGETHER - PLEASE BE AWARE OF WHAT POOL PLAYS WHICH TEE!TWO METER RULE IS IN EFFECT

Hole 1 330 ft Par 3
All Pools tee from tee pad to basket straight ahead.
MANDO!! Must pass marked tree on LEFT. Drop zone is next to MANDO tree.Fence and beyond on right and behind basket is OB.
To next tee turn left, to #2 tee pad, Pool 3 continues to flags at edge of tree line.

Hole 3 360 / 310 ft Par 3
Pool 1 tees from concrete pad, pools 2&3 tee from flags near gazebo to a basket straight ahead.
In or across road on right or behind basket is OB.
To next tee, both Pools cross road towards trees, Pool 1&2 tees from tee pad, Pool 3 tees from flags near tree.

Hole 4 250 / 205 ft Par 3
Pools 1&2 tees from concrete pad, Pool 3 tees from flags to a basket down at the end of the trees.
In or across road on right is OB. In or across sidewalk on left is OB
To next tee, all Pools turn left and back towards the #5 tee pad, Pool 3 continues to flags 110 ft ahead of #5 tee pad.

Hole 7 260 / 180 ft Par 3
Pools 1&2 tees from concrete pad, Pool 3 tees from flags 80 ft ahead to a basket at the edge of the water straight ahead. Beyond path on right is OB. In water is OB.
To next tee, all Pools turn right and cross the path for #8 tees, Pool 1 tees from tee pad, Pool 2&3 tees from flags 145 ft ahead by trees near path.

Hole 8 395 / 250 ft Par 3
Pool 1 tees from #8 tee pad, Pool 2&3 tees from tee flags near path 145 feet ahead to a basket on the slope near the electric tower. Beyond path on left, sidewalk and beyond on right are OB
To next tee all Pools continue towards path to #9 tee pad

Hole 9 305 ft Par 3
All Pools tees from #9 tee pad to a basket straight ahead on rise.
Beyond path on left and behind basket is OB. In or beyond road on right is OB.
To next tee turn left and back down path to tee pad for #10.

Hole 10 250 ft Par 3
All Pools tee from #10 tee pad to a basket slightly right near tree line.
Beyond path on left and in water is OB.
To next tee, all pools straight ahead down path to tee pad for #11, Pools 2&3 continue ahead to flags 55 ft ahead near path.

Hole 11 280 / 225 ft Par 3
Pool 1 tees from #11 tee pad, Pool 2&3 tees from tee flags near path 55 ft ahead to a basket near the water. Beyond path on left and water on right is OB.
To next tee, all Pools cross path to #12 tee pad, Pools 2&3 continue to tee flags 45 feet ahead.

Hole 14 310 ft Par 3
All pools tee to a basket to basket straight ahead near the road.
Beyond path on right OR in road is OB.
To next tee all Pools go across road to #15 tee pad near water, Pool 3 continues to flags left of #15 tee pad.

Hole 15 370 ft Par 3
Pool 1&2 tee to a basket straight ahead near water, Pool 3 tees from flags left of #15 tee pad.
In water is OB.
To next tee all Pools go back towards gazebo with Pool 1 going to #16 tee pad and Pools 2&3 going uphill to flags on grass pathway in the fairway of #16. BEWARE of Players playing Hole 3 teeing off from elevated tee pad.

Hole 16 300 / 225 ft Par 3
Pool 1 tees from concrete pad near gazebo, Pools 2&3 tee from flags on slope to a basket straight ahead on the slope.
MANDO!!! Left of marked tree, Drop Zone is tee flags for Pools 2&3.Road and beyond on left or in water is OB.
To next tee all Pools turn right down hill to #17 tee pad, Pool 1 plays from tee pad, Pools 2&3 continue to flags ahead 270 ft.

Hole 17 620 / 350 ft Par 4
Pool 1 tees from tee pad, Pools 2&3 tee from flags 270 feet ahead to a basket ahead, and slightly right at the edge of the lake. Water on right is OB.
To next tee all Pools turn left away from lake and climb uphill to #18 tee pad, Pool 1 to tee pad for #18, Pools 2&3 continues down fairway to flags 20 ft ahead and left.

Hole 18 290 / 270 ft Par 3
Pool 1 tees from tee pad, Pools 2&3 tee from flags 20 ft ahead tee to a basket straight ahead on the slope near the parking lot.
Road and beyond on right is OB. Concrete area near building including grass is OB.
To next tee, all Pools go to the right and across parking lot to #1 tee pad.

The ADGA has moved our top gun series #2 event, which was scheduled the week before this one (June 14th) at Lake O. It will now be at Riverview, hopefully this will surge registration over the next week. They were trying to do it as a "warmup" for the GSSS event, but have decided to switch the dates with another course. Lake O is all yours this month Keith!

HOLE BY HOLE DESCRIPTIONS FOR LAKE OLMSTEAD POOLS 1, 2 & 3 Par 56
POOL 1 IS ALL PROS, AND ALL ADVANCED MEN
POOL 2 IS ALL INTERMEDIATE MEN
POOL 3 IS RECREATIONAL MEN AND WOMEN
SOME HOLES WILL HAVE POOLS 1&2 TOGETHER, AND SOME HOLES WLL HAVE POOLS 2&3 TOGETHER - PLEASE BE AWARE OF WHAT POOL PLAYS WHICH TEE!TWO METER RULE IS IN EFFECT

Hole 1 330 ft Par 3
All Pools tee from tee pad to basket straight ahead.
MANDO!! Must pass marked tree on LEFT. Drop zone is next to MANDO tree.
Fence and beyond on right and behind basket is OB.
To next tee turn left, to #2 tee pad, Pool 3 continues to flags at edge of tree line.

Hole 3 360 / 310 ft Par 3
Pool 1 tees from concrete pad, pools 2&3 tee from flags near gazebo to a basket straight ahead.
In or across road on right or behind basket is OB.
To next tee, both Pools cross road towards trees, Pool 1&2 tees from tee pad, Pool 3 tees from flags near tree.

Hole 4 250 / 205 ft Par 3
Pools 1&2 tees from concrete pad, Pool 3 tees from flags to a basket down at the end of the trees.
In or across road on right is OB. In or across sidewalk on left is OB
To next tee, all Pools turn left and back towards the #5 tee pad, Pool 3 continues to flags 110 ft ahead of #5 tee pad.

Hole 7 260 / 180 ft Par 3
Pools 1&2 tees from concrete pad, Pool 3 tees from flags 80 ft ahead to a basket at the edge of the water straight ahead. Beyond path on right is OB. In water is OB.
To next tee, all Pools turn right and cross the path for #8 tees, Pool 1 tees from tee pad, Pool 2&3 tees from flags 145 ft ahead by trees near path.

Hole 8 395 / 250 ft Par 3
Pool 1 tees from #8 tee pad, Pool 2&3 tees from tee flags near path 145 feet ahead to a basket on the slope near the electric tower. Beyond path on left, sidewalk and beyond on right are OB
To next tee all Pools continue towards path to #9 tee pad

Hole 9 305 ft Par 3
All Pools tees from #9 tee pad to a basket straight ahead on rise.
Beyond path on left and behind basket is OB. In or beyond road on right is OB.
To next tee turn left and back down path to tee pad for #10.

Hole 10 250 ft Par 3
All Pools tee from #10 tee pad to a basket slightly right near tree line.
Beyond path on left and in water is OB.
To next tee, all pools straight ahead down path to tee pad for #11, Pools 2&3 continue ahead to flags 55 ft ahead near path.

Hole 11 280 / 225 ft Par 3
Pool 1 tees from #11 tee pad, Pool 2&3 tees from tee flags near path 55 ft ahead to a basket near the water. Beyond path on left and water on right is OB.
To next tee, all Pools cross path to #12 tee pad, Pools 2&3 continue to tee flags 45 feet ahead.

Hole 14 310 ft Par 3
All pools tee to a basket to basket straight ahead near the road.
Beyond path on right OR in road is OB.
To next tee all Pools go across road to #15 tee pad near water, Pool 3 continues to flags left of #15 tee pad.

Hole 15 370 ft Par 3
Pool 1&2 tee to a basket straight ahead near water, Pool 3 tees from flags left of #15 tee pad.
In water is OB.
To next tee all Pools go back towards gazebo with Pool 1 going to #16 tee pad and Pools 2&3 going uphill to flags on grass pathway in the fairway of #16. BEWARE of Players playing Hole 3 teeing off from elevated tee pad.

Hole 16 300 / 225 ft Par 3
Pool 1 tees from concrete pad near gazebo, Pools 2&3 tee from flags on slope to a basket straight ahead on the slope.
MANDO!!! Left of marked tree, Drop Zone is tee flags for Pools 2&3.
Road and beyond on left or in water is OB.
To next tee all Pools turn right down hill to #17 tee pad, Pool 1 plays from tee pad, Pools 2&3 continue to flags ahead 270 ft.

Hole 17 620 / 350 ft Par 4
Pool 1 tees from tee pad, Pools 2&3 tee from flags 270 feet ahead to a basket ahead, and slightly right at the edge of the lake. Water on right is OB.
To next tee all Pools turn left away from lake and climb uphill to #18 tee pad, Pool 1 to tee pad for #18, Pools 2&3 continues down fairway to flags 20 ft ahead and left.

Hole 18 290 / 270 ft Par 3
Pool 1 tees from tee pad, Pools 2&3 tee from flags 20 ft ahead tee to a basket straight ahead on the slope near the parking lot.
Road and beyond on right is OB. Concrete area near building including grass is OB.
To next tee, all Pools go to the right and across parking lot to #1 tee pad.

Technically only 12 open men if I don't switch to masters where there are only 2 players registered.

There are SIX PRO WOMEN signed up for this Event and SEVENTEEN OMB's signed up also!!

This is a reminder for sponsors that there are only 14 holes left to sponsor - $25 for just the tee sign and $35 for Tee sign and Event disc.
The deadline is Monday June 16th at 5PM to be included in the Program.

Don't delay and please purchase merchandise if you can, so that the last 3 Events can have the same Spectacular payouts as the first 3 which have been over 200% for ALL divisions even though I'm also paying 50% of the field.

PopDger wrote:I didn't know peolpe where allowed to change up courses that they weren't involved in building or the upkeep of it? Kinda insulting the good folks that made the course what it is....

Most TD's check with course managers or Recreation Staff.....I would not take it as an insult but as a compliment that Keith is taking his series to Augusta because of the awesomeness of the courses in that county!!!

I am not playing in this event but I just thought it was strange to change such an"awesome" course that was even used in several NT events, exactly the way it is now without mando's. LO is in my opinion the best course in town, the way it is now....

All respect due to Keith, as he does go above and beyond to put on a great tournament.
I was excited to be able to play LO since I heard it was a great course, and then to see that the lower divisions will be playing from shorter/different tees was a bummer.
I am still looking forward to the tourney, but I WILL be staying another day or coming in early to play the regular layout.

With pools being mixed and different tee pads being used, players need to understand what happens when you tee off from the wrong area:

801.04 Playing the Stipulated Course
A. It is the responsibility of the player to play the course correctly. Before play begins, players shall attend the players’ meeting and ask about any special conditions that may exist on the course, including extra holes, alternate teeing areas, alternate hole placements, out-of-bounds areas, and mandatories.

B. Specific Types of Misplay and Penalty Procedures for Each:
(1) Wrong Tee: Teeing off from the wrong teeing area. If the misplay is discovered after the player’s throw from the incorrect teeing area, but before a subsequent throw, the player shall re-tee from the correct teeing area and treat the initial throw as a practice throw (one throw added to the player’s score). If the misplay is discovered after a subsequent throw, the player shall proceed to complete the hole and receive a two-throw penalty for the misplay.
(2) Misplayed Mandatory: Failing to attempt to navigate a mandatory route. If the misplay is discovered after a player’s throw has passed beyond the mandatory on the wrong side, but before a subsequent throw has been made, the player shall be assessed a one-throw penalty and play from the drop zone as stipulated in 803.12 B. If the misplay is discovered after a player’s throw has passed beyond the mandatory on the wrong side, and a subsequent throw has been made, the player shall finish the hole without playing from the drop zone, and receive a two-throw penalty for the misplay.
(3) Wrong Target: If a player holes out on the wrong target for a given hole, he or she will continue play from a lie directly beneath that target, without penalty. If the player holes out at the wrong target, and believes the hole is completed, and proceeds to play the next hole, a two-throw penalty will be added to that player’s score for misplaying the course.
(4) Out-Of-Bounds Play: Playing an out-of-bounds disc as if it were in-bounds. If the misplay is discovered after the throw from out-of-bounds, but before a subsequent throw has been made, the player shall throw from the correct lie and treat the throw from out-of-bounds as a practice throw (one throw added to the player’s score). If the misplay is discovered after a subsequent throw, the player shall proceed to complete the hole and receive a two-throw penalty for the misplay.
(5) Non-Sequential Play: Skipping a hole or playing the holes in the wrong order. If the misplay is discovered after an initial throw has been made but before a subsequent throw has been made, the player shall re-tee from the correct teeing area and count the initial throw as a practice throw (one throw added to the player’s score). If the misplay is discovered after a subsequent throw has been made, the hole being played shall be completed. Immediately thereafter, the player shall proceed to play the course in its proper order from the point where the misplay began. Regardless of the number of holes skipped, or played in the wrong order, a total of two penalty throws shall be added to the player’s score for the misplay infraction. The score earned from any completed hole(s) shall stand. Any completed hole(s) shall not be replayed.

C. In instances where the misplay rules affect players within a group differently, the group shall remain together while a hole is being completed by some of the group to verify scoring and rules compliance.

D. In instances where a misplay is discovered after the pertinent hole or holes have been completed (holed out), the misplay shall not be replayed and the player shall receive a two-throw penalty for the misplay.

E. In instances where a misplay is discovered after the player has turned in his or her scorecard, the misplay shall not be replayed and the player shall receive a two-throw penalty for the misplay.

F. A player who deliberately misplays the course to gain competitive advantage has violated 804.05 A (3) and shall be penalized in accordance with this section.

Last edited by Jay on Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PopDger wrote:I didn't know peolpe where allowed to change up courses that they weren't involved in building or the upkeep of it? Kinda insulting the good folks that made the course what it is....

If you'll check with Mr. Brian Graham or Chuck Kennedy, you'll quickly learn that the course from the concrete tee pads was designed for PRO players for the 2006 PRO worlds, NOT recreational players.
Yes the course is fine for the skill level it was DESIGNED for, but it is NOT a tournament course for Recreational level players.

NO ONE can argue that point that has a clue about course design or skill level.

You'll also find that I am NOT CHANGING the course except for 12 hours, and you're making it look like I'm making permanent changes and destroying the course.

Anyone who has played any of the GSSS events so far has dealt with course changes from what they usually play because MOST courses are designed for 1 hole at a time play and NOT tournament play with all holes being filled at the same time. Anyone that has played ANY tournament anywhere can tell you about which holes always have backups, which holes always have people in other fairways, which holes have safety issues, etc.

I appreciate the work EVERY course designer puts into "their" course, but I'm looking at challenge, course flow and safety for ALL players, not just the top players. At Olmstead because of the out and back layout, elevation changes, and narrowness of the course, it presents more flow, safety issues and challenges than the other courses in the GSSS, but in my opinion the layouts are fair to everyones skill level.

So far with the other 3 GSSS Events, I have been dead on with what the course SSA's and top scores would be, and I think when all is said and done with this one I'll be dead on again.
You'll also see that in the Atlanta Open where the intermediate played the same course layout as the pros that the BEST scores were 17-40 strokes over par and 15-25 strokes behind the advanced players top scores, and 27 -45 strokes behind the top PRO players who the layout was designed for and in ONLY 2 ROUNDS of scores. Not much fun for most of those Intermediate players to be shooting in the low to upper 70's for 2 rounds of golf, on a course that wasn't designed for their skill level.
Compare that to the Event at McCurry for the GSSS where the top half of the Recreational field shot with in 14 strokes of par, with the winner shooting even par. Much better for all the players concerned.

Remember that I'm designing the courses for TOURNAMENT play for different skill levels playing at the same time on the same course, which is different than the lets start at hole 1 and build a course 1 hole at a time mentality.

If I'm wrong about Lake Olmstead I'll be the first one to say so, and I'll publically apologize for ruining "your" course. Others thought I was ruining McCurry by changing things around until they actually PLAYED it and then most were happy with the changes including the players as well as the Parks Dept. (it must run in the family to think I'm attacking "their" course by changing holes for 12 hours )

That's all I'm going to say about the design for the Event as it will be played the way it is listed in the program on June 21st.
Before and after that day it can be played HOWEVER anyone wants it to be played.

You talk about flow of the course yet I noticed that you are using two different tees for hole six with one of them being 13's tee pad. How is that going to improve flow when there is a group that is going to be teeing off on 13? Don't mando's make a hole more timing consuming if people are missing these mando's only to have to go to a drop zone instead of playing their shot from where it lies? We have never have a problem playing the course the way it is despite the skill level. Most players I know would like to play the same course as the rest of the field so they know where they stack up to the top players. Scores should differ based on the level or division. If a rec or inter player shoots the same score as a pro then that player really isnt an am player are they? Enough said of this topic, you WILL do what ever you want to. Best of luck with your tournament.

PopDger wrote:You talk about flow of the course yet I noticed that you are using two different tees for hole six with one of them being 13's tee pad. How is that going to improve flow when there is a group that is going to be teeing off on 13? Don't mando's make a hole more timing consuming if people are missing these mando's only to have to go to a drop zone instead of playing their shot from where it lies? We have never have a problem playing the course the way it is despite the skill level. Most players I know would like to play the same course as the rest of the field so they know where they stack up to the top players. Scores should differ based on the level or division. If a rec or inter player shoots the same score as a pro then that player really isnt an am player are they? Enough said of this topic, you WILL do what ever you want to. Best of luck with your tournament.

In round 1 I'm making sure that the Rec groups are starting on 13 so that they will be clear while the advanced groups are teeing off on 6 from above, and in round 2 I'll set the board the same way so it shouldn't come into play but if it does the higher hole goes first as always on the course.

Having to deal with Mando's is much faster than having 2 groups of players waiting for each other to get out of the way so that they can finish their holes.
Have you ever looked at the course at Lake Olmstead?Have you EVER played at Lake Olmstead with a full course?Last time the course was full was in '06 PRO Worlds which I was at, and I can GUARANTEE you we spent SHITLOADS of time waiting on almost EVERY hole for EXACTLY what I'm designing the GSSS Course to avoid.

When you can honestly talk about any of this, I'll listen to you, otherwise I'll just assume you have no idea what you are talking about and treat you as such.

Keith, how dare you do anything without consulting every person in the entire world. Not only did you not consult everybody, but we require that to be done at least 4 years in advance. Get it together man.

keith johnson wrote:When you can honestly talk about any of this, I'll listen to you, otherwise I'll just assume you have no idea what you are talking about and treat you as such.

Keith

And you wonder why everyone gives you such a hard time?

I never wonder, I know.

People don't read or think before saying stupid things, and then can't defend themselves when responded to because they don't know what they are talking about.
Sorta like taking minutes and posting them for approval in less than 8 months

No, arrogant would you telling me how to design a course or run an event that you are not even playing in, without calling or PM'ing me to ask why like several considerate people from Augusta did instead of blindly assuming that you know better.

Clunck wrote:Don't worry Jay, Keith will remove all messages that don't agree with him shortly.

I don't ever REmove them , just MOVE them out of the tournament thread, but this one is more interesting and I'm more right in this one , plus arrogantly being called arrogant is worth leaving them in.

Oh yeah you're white and I wong!! You know everything. Do you ever listen to yourself? I doubt it since you never listen to what other golfers suggest wo getting mad. I was only repeating what other golfers have said but didn't want to voice bc I guess they already knew this would happen. I really like how you decide when to have your tournament months before the end of the year. Let me pick the best time of the year to have tournaments and then put them six weeks apart from each other and screw everyone else. And yes, it does run in the family, the disc golf family as well!! Have you ever played on a full course wo having to wait?

"Oh yeah you're white and I wong!! You know everything. Do you ever listen to yourself? I doubt it since you never listen to what other golfers suggest wo getting mad. I was only repeating what other golfers have said but didn't want to voice bc I guess they already knew this would happen. I really like how you decide when to have your tournament months before the end of the year. Let me pick the best time of the year to have tournaments and then put them six weeks apart from each other and screw everyone else. And yes, it does run in the family, the disc golf family as well!! Have you ever played on a full course wo having to wait?"

You want to start again, just when I figured you would realize you were possibly wrong.

Nice race card usage when I've never said anything to anyone ever about their ethnicity and I have been nothing but very friendly to you and Ot in person every time I have ever seen both of you, so where does you're hatred of me come from?

Can't you just debate AFTER doing reasearch instead of spewing crap first, and then trying to accuse me of stuff because you have nothing REAL to say about anything I've said?

Don't you grasp the concept of how the scheduling works seeing that you are in the home city of where the scheduling starts?

NT's first, before Nov of (read this slowly so you won't miss it) THIS YEAR!Then A-tier events before DEC 15th of (HEY look it's STILL in) THIS YEAR!Then other events fill in around traditional dates.

I LOOKED at the calendar from '07 to make sure that I used 6 week gaps that DID NOT interfere with ANYONES traditional event dates from 06 OR '07. Then I sent them to the State coordinator (at that time John Nisewonder)
Just like you are SUPPOSED to do if you are planning a tournament.
As soon as I became coordinator I put up announcements on THIS message board to please call or PM me with dates so that scheduling issues can be worked out as soon as possible, and for every TD in the state, EXCEPT ones in Augusta, they all did what they were supposed to do for scheduling. (I'll grant you Augusta's TD's TOLD me when they would be having events)

So how does me following what I'm supposed to do as a TD, using 6 days out of 104 weekend days SCREW everyone else?!
You have NO F'IN CLUE as to what you say before saying it do you?

I also told you that several Augusta people DID call or email me about their thoughts which you conveinently IGNORE, to bash me again with stuff you know nothing about!

Ok then Mr. Phonepasong Arounleut, when do You want me to schedule events, so that for the '09 GSSS events I don't bother You?I do want to clear all of next year with You first before I announce next years Event dates.

You can't defend ANY of your points because they are ALL baseless, so you make stuff up to try and win your point.
Sorry dude, this is the kind of stuff I LIVE for, and if you can show me ANYTHING i've posted that is innacurate, let me know.

Until then, I've got a keyboard also.

Keith

PS... If you aren't happy about using 6 days this year, you'll probably be REAL pissed in '09.

2 players also moved from Intermediate to Advanced, and I failed to add the extra paying spot, since I pay minimum 50% of the field in every division, so I am doing the following:
1) Giving Dusty Jones a $50 voucher for the last paying spot
2) Giving Brett Porter and Nick Evans $20 more in vouchers

Kevin was tied with Dollar and Josh going into hole 17 and came out 2 holes later with a 3 stroke win over both.

Eric Jones won a playoff over Paul Childs in the huge Advanced Masters field which had only 6 strokes separating 1st to 7th place.

Sarah Stanhope held off Courtney Peavy to win the 6 player Female Open division.

Thanks for a great day Keith, and congrats to Wes Campbell for making a million dollars by selling replacement discs to the unfortunate folks that sailed their discs in to the lake. I was unfortunate 5 times - DOH!

The Hula Hoop became so ubiquitous that the former Soviet Union banned the toy as a symbol of the "emptiness of American culture."

I had a great time this weekend, the course was great! Thanks to Keith for running it. Had fun playing with the AM geezers Batman, Chuck, Jack, and FBJ. One question though, now that I've accepted plastic can I go back and accept cash?!?!
Augusta boys
If Scuba Steve ever pulls up a blue swirly dyed Buzzz with my name and PDGA# please get it for me!

It kicked off the pine tree on the left while teeing on 18 and hyzered out into the lake. My name and PDGA# are on the inside rim. The only other writing on it is "virgin toss Lake Russell #3", which is the reason I'd like it back. Thanks Vern, its good to hear some of your lost dogs making it back home!

My Pink Panther sounds like it is your disc's neighbor. I have a feeling he checks that area quite a bit since 17 comes on to play as well. I will ask about it since it sounds like your number was not on it.

The Hula Hoop became so ubiquitous that the former Soviet Union banned the toy as a symbol of the "emptiness of American culture."

$Dollar$ wrote:SWEET!!! i only lost one in the water that day, but have probably lost 5 or 6 in there total. let me know what turns up vern!

Tell the whole story. You lost one in the water that day while tied for the lead on the next to last hole of the tournament. Personally, I stay on the vacation card all weekend that way when I shoot a hot round and move up to the top ten it looks better.