I guess, in the same way buying a game at Best Buy, then giving it away to someone without even opening it is IP theft.

And it isn't even IP theft. He paid for each bundle steam key, I don't see how simply checking a single box marking it in their system as a gift suddenly makes it not IP theft. The end result is the same, one person and one person only uses the games provided in the bundle.

I guess, in the same way buying a game at Best Buy, then giving it away to someone without even opening it is IP theft.

And it isn't even IP theft. He paid for each bundle steam key, I don't see how simply checking a single box marking it in their system as a gift suddenly makes it not IP theft. The end result is the same, one person and one person only uses the games provided in the bundle.

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That's different because you're talking a physical product as well as IP. Commerce laws allow reselling, trading, etc. of physical products. The key (and software on the disk) included with said product falls under IP which cannot be traded once it has been claimed by someone.

HIB is strictly software; software is considered intellectual property. That falls under DMCA which prohibits those actions (you're merely licensed to use it, nothing else).

That's different because you're talking a physical product as well as IP. Commerce laws allow reselling, trading, etc. of physical products. The key (and software on the disk) included with said product falls under IP which cannot be traded once it has been claimed by someone.

HIB is strictly software; software is considered intellectual property. That falls under DMCA which prohibits those actions (you're merely licensed to use it, nothing else).

Whether or not DRM-free titles are offered with it is irrelevent. The game keys are not tradeable.

HIB is always digital download only. Even so, it's irrelevent. You're buying software, ebooks, or music (all IP) in all cases. Delivery method is moot because it's the license agreements that prohibit transfer of IP, not the medium through which they are delivered.

Whether or not DRM-free titles are offered with it is irrelevent. The game keys are not tradeable.

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In the strictest interpretation, correct. However, I'm still wondering how checking a box marking it as a gift suddenly makes it not IP theft. Or more importantly how the developers are suffering by him not checking that box, as you claim.

In the strictest interpretation, correct. However, I'm still wondering how checking a box marking it as a gift suddenly makes it not IP theft. Or more importantly how the developers are suffering by him not checking that box, as you claim.

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Do you own one of these accounts? If you gift someone a HIB page it gets added to their HIB account or if they are not a member they can make an account using that page. It's THEIR page for THEIR login. The agreement to own the account means you are the sole owner of the IP.

The "gift" box doesn't matter. It's just the appropriate means to signify a HIB key is not purchased for personal use but to be given away to someone else who will activate it.

All I have been saying is if you buy a HIB key and share that HIB key with multiple people, it is abuse. If you buy a HIB key, and give the keys on the HIB key page to anyone, it is abuse. One HIB key (and all content within) = one user only. If you want more than one copy of any games included (even if you already own it), you have to buy more than one HIB key.

Are you technically a "user of said key" if you don't activate it yourself?

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Depends if your HIB user account claimed the page. If it did, then you are the user of that page because it was automatically activated. If it did not, you could give the HIB key link to someone else who could activate and claim it (effectively the same as checking "gift").

Do you own one of these accounts? If you gift someone a HIB page it gets added to their HIB account or if they are not a member they can make an account using that page. It's THEIR page for THEIR login. The agreement to own the account means you are the sole owner of the IP.

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Correct, but in the end, if you buy 3 bundles, use one of the steam keys for yourself and give the other 2 away, what is the difference from checking the gift box other than saving someone the hassle of setting up another account they might not want to? The keys are paid for, and in the end it is still one key per person. No one is loosing anything here.

The "gift" box doesn't matter. It's just the appropriate means to signify a HIB key is not purchased for personal use but to be given away to someone else who will activate it.

All I have been saying is if you buy a HIB key and share that HIB key with multiple people, it is abuse. If you buy a HIB key, and give the keys on the HIB key page to anyone, it is abuse. One HIB key (and all content within) = one user only.

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No, you've been arguing that buying multiple bundle, and giving the extra bundle keys away is wrong and makes the developers "suffer".

You took one comment he made about what some people do and ran with it going on like that is what he was going to do. You've ignored everything else he has said. It was obvious from his first post in the thread that he was buying multiple bundles, and giving the bundles away, so it would still be 1 bundle = one user only. In fact with this bundle that is pretty much guaranteed(unless you split out SR3).

The same goes with my statements. No where did I even suggest that one bundle should be shared. I've been very clear from the beginning that I was talking about purchasing multiple bundles and giving them away, so that it would still be one bundle = one user.

Correct, but in the end, if you buy 3 bundles, use one of the steam keys for yourself and give the other 2 away, what is the difference from checking the gift box other than saving someone the hassle of setting up another account they might not want to? The keys are paid for, and in the end it is still one key per person. No one is loosing anything here.

No, you've been arguing that buying multiple bundle, and giving the extra bundle keys away is wrong and makes the developers "suffer".

You took one comment he made about what some people do and ran with it going on like that is what he was going to do. You've ignored everything else he has said. It was obvious from his first post in the thread that he was buying multiple bundles, and giving the bundles away, so it would still be 1 bundle = one user only. In fact with this bundle that is pretty much guaranteed.

The same goes with my statements. No where did I even suggest that one bundle should be shared. I've been very clear from the beginning that I was talking about purchasing multiple bundles and giving them away, so that it would still be one bundle = one user.

No, giving away game keys is what "makes developers 'suffer.'" You can buy as many HIB keys as you want and give them away. There's absolutely no problem with that and I never said there was. The problem is parting out game keys from a single HIB key.

No, giving away game keys is what "makes developers 'suffer.'" You can buy as many HIB keys as you want and give them away. There's absolutely no problem with that and I never said there was. The problem is parting out game keys from a single HIB key.

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Right, and you are the only one making that argument, since Darkleoco was very clear from his first post in this thread that he would be buying multiple bundles and giving the extra keys away.

Because you don't have to activate the keys on Steam. You have to manually do that. Steam has no way to tie a HIB account/key to a specific game key. The only thing Steam knows is it can't activate a game key for a game you already have on Steam account.

Look at every post of his after the first. He only talked about multiple bundles in the first post. Every post thereafter he was advocating IP theft by giving away game keys from a single HIB key.

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No he wasn't, he never once said he was going to give away multiple keys from a single bundle. In one post he says some do, but he didn't say he was. And in this bundles case it is virtually impossible(again unless you separate out SR3).

And in the very next post after he talks about "some" people parting out the bundle, he talks about how he doesn't see the difference in buying the bundle as a gift and gift it to someone, or just buying the bundle and giving someone all the keys.

He never said he was going to buy one bundle and share it, he was clear in his first post, and several others that he was buying multiple bundles.

How can you give away a license key to a game you've already activated on Steam when its a one-time-activation and non-transferable?

Am I confused or is no one making sense??

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When you buy the bundle, you get a Steam key to activate the bundle through Steam. Anyone can use the key, it is not bound to any account. However, once you type the key into Steam, it is done. I can't be used again after buying typed into Steam.

The pure ignorance that Ford has been showing is completely astounding but that is beside the point. Nothing you do with your keys is IP theft anyone who argues that is mentally defective end of story.

Now as for me I simply jumped in because I found Ford's original comment about giving away keys to be immensely inaccurate.

I am not buying any bundles for myself or splitting up keys I am simply buying them as gift bundles as I own all of the games I would want and am going to be either holding a giveaway myself after the humble bundle is over as it would be pointless to do it while it is going on or I will add the bundles to one of Manofthem's or theonedub's giveaways.

SR3 was implicit for this entire discussion (could also include the pack of six titles). As of right now, there are only two Steam keys that encompass the entire bundle.

...I'll sum it up with one statement of fact: HIB keys can be gifted; Steam/Desura/game titles cannot be gifted.

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And I'll sum it up by saying in the end there is absolutely no difference between buying this HIB as a gift and not buying it as a gift and giving all the Steam keys away to a single person. No developers suffer in that scenario. In the end the developer gets paid the same for their work, and one bundle is used by one person and one person only.