The
following article is the first part of an interview with Såzen
Larsen Kusano Sensei (5th dan) of the Sugino branch of
Katori Shinto Ryu. In this article, Såzen Sensei shares with us
his thoughts about the nature of Japanese swordsmanship. Those
interested in learning more about Såzen Sensei can consult his
group’s website: http://www.kakudokan.no/

Author’s note: This interview was conducted on August 7, 2009
in St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada. Såzen (pronounced “Sozen”)
Sensei came over to Canada to conduct another special seminar in
Katori Shinto Ryu. This was his third trip to Canada.

While
Sozen Sensei speaks excellent English, it must be remembered that
English is not his native language. At some points through the
interview transcript presented here, I have added a few notes that
may help readers as to what sensei might have meant since any
discussion between two people will entail certain assumptions,
background knowledge, and common understandings. Any errors in
interpreting what sensei has said are entirely my own. I hope that
readers will find the reading enjoyable nonetheless.

Part One: The Nature of Japanese
Swordsmanship

Question:
There is still some confusion in the Western countries about what
exactly is “kenjutsu”. What is “kenjutsu” and
how is it different from kendo or iaido?

Sensei:
First of all, let me say that Shinto Ryu is “old school”.*
(* “old school” as in
old-style budo mentality, old-style methodology, the way budo was
supposed to be studied and taught, old-style philosophy, etc…)

The
so-called “do”* arts are modern. From the 1600’s
onwards. The people into “do” were Shinto and Buddhist
priests and the nobility. It was not for the common folk to engage in
“do” arts. A lot of them couldn’t even read or
write.
(* “do”
or “michi” which in Japanese means “the Way”,
“the Path”.)

I don’t
like the term “kenjutsu”. We limit ourselves. Jutsu
literally translated means “techniques”. It’s too
narrow.
I don’t
like to use this term. It’s too limiting. Shinto Ryu is an old
school of swordsmanship. I like the word “swordsmanship”.
It includes “techniques”. It includes “jutsu”.

When
people ask what I do, I like to call it “old-style ken-do”.
Because in “do”, it includes so much more than just a
technique or two or fifty.
Also, the
code that you practice by is in the “do”.
What is
“the code”, you may ask?
It
incorporates respect for others, ethics, philosophy, how we conduct
ourselves in the dojo, how we conduct ourselves outside the dojo,
because with the ken-jutsu, with the techniques, comes great
responsibility.

Question:
Why is that?

Sensei:
Because being a swordsman, and I am not talking about beginners, I am
talking about proficient swordsmen, having mastered techniques, the
“jutsu”, they have great power.
Like a
politician has power, a policemen has power, a doctor has power, even
a schoolteacher has power. A swordsman has power too.
What kind
of power?
Well, a
force that enables him or her to overcome or subdue another human
being.

So, with
this power, in the world of the “do”, we’re
supposed to do good. Like the philosophy about “the sword that
gives life”.*
(* compare with the idea espoused in
Yagyu Shinkage Ryu about the “life-giving sword”)

Question:
Sorry, to get back to the question, how is it different from kendo or
iaido?

Sensei:
Yes, I see. Well, there is no difference, in my opinion.
Historically, all schools of swordsmanship concentrated on handling
the sword and use of sword techniques. But many of us know that in
some of these old schools, schools now referred to as “iaido”
schools, you can still find kata for two people for instance. *
(* i.e., partnered kata)

These are
old schools with a modern name, like in a modern box named “iaido”.
But iaido consists of many schools. Some may argue that there is no
competition in iaido, but they do come together and compete. So, if
you say that there is no competition in iaido, this is not true.

Question:
In your opinion, what is the Japanese way of
swordfighting or swordsmanship? How is it different from other types
of swordsmanship like Western fencing or Chinese swordfighting
styles?

Sensei:
This is a difficult question. We do know some things however. We
know, for instance, that the Japanese sword is in principle a
two-handed sword. We also know that all styles of swordsmanship are
based on the culture from which they were created.
(* Sensei may be alluding to the idea
that to understand the Japanese way of sword-fighting, we need to
consider the characteristics of the tool and the mindset of the
culture which spawned the tool: What do they value? What ideal do
they espouse to achieve?)

Question:
Other types of swordfighting like Chinese styles or Western styles
seem to have many exchanges of blows. Japanese sword styles typically
seem to rely on one cut.* Do you think this is true?
(*
Example: Kashima Shinto Ryu has hitotsu tachi, Itto Ryu has
kiri-otoshi, etc… all of them espouse the ideal of the one
perfect cut.)

Sensei: An
interesting question! Hmmmm.

(Sensei seems to contemplate this
question rather deeply so I offer an example to try to focus the
question more)

Question:
Sensei, an interesting example happened last year at Sugino Sensei’s
seminar in Canada. A student asked why, in kata 1 when the uke tachi
comes and cuts down on the kiri-komi and the kiri-komi sidesteps to
avoid the cut, why the uke tachi could not immediately cut the do*
(waist) in the same motion.
(* in the kata, the uke tachi, or
uchi-dachi in other schools, comes to cut the kiri-komi, or
shi-dachi, with a big overhead cut. The kiri-komi evades the cut by
taking one step to his left side and the uke tachi’s cut misses
its mark. The question posed by the student was, “Couldn’t
the uke tachi then simply turn the blade and cut the exposed side of
the kiri-komi since as he evades the cut, he leaves the entire right
side of his body unprotected?”)

Sensei:
Ah, yes. I see.
This idea
of relying on “one cut”. Well, you’ve got to follow
through with the cut*. It takes time.
(* Here,
presumably, once you commit to the cut, can you easily change,
perhaps in mid-stream to another type of cut?)

In order
to change the direction of the sword, it takes time. Like a big
ship*. It needs a certain distance to stop and to change direction.
(* An
interesting tidbit of information:Sensei served in the
Norwegian Navy in his youth.)

Executing
a cut or a stab takes energy too. It is within the nature of the
Japanese sword.
It also
depends on the intention of the strike. For example, do you believe
(if you are the swordsman) that this is the final cut to finish the
opponent? Or is it part of the strategy, only part of the fight?
If you are
restrained, you might be able to recover.
It also
depends on the type of opponent, on your skill, many circumstances.

In all
schools, there are things called “the perfect moment” or
“the ideal technique”. That’s what we are striving
for. Who wants to go 10 rounds* when you can finish the guy in one
stroke, one blow?
(* as in a boxing match)

So what
does it take to achieve this “ideal technique”?
Lots of
training!!* (Sensei laughs)(*
Miyamoto Musashi said in his Book
of Five Rings, “The Way is in training.”)

Just like
the ideal spouse, it doesn’t exist. It never happens. It is an
idea.
Ideal and
idea both start with the same word. It is an image in your head and
it is not that it's unachievable, it is. It’s just very, very
difficult.
Now, about
it happening in a kata, since this question of cutting concerns what
happens in the kata. I think this is a question of methodology. Let
me talk about the idea of kata.How do we
learn the different techniques for blocking, cutting, defending, and
attacking?
In some
schools, it is done in short sequences*. In other schools, they have
long sequences.
(* i.e., “kata” in
Japanese; pre-arranged sequences of movements)

Personally,
I think they are all just sequences. *
(* I think here Sensei is alluding to
the issue about what exactly kata represent; whether kata represent
what happens in a real swordfight, whether kata represent a specific
scenario in a swordfight, etc… which is a common question that
beginners and novices have.)

In
old-school kendo or kenjutsu, although the sequence of techniques are
pre-set, we call them kata, our partners are not pre-set.
Although
you may know the sequences, the order of the techniques in the
sequence, you do not know your opponent’s distance, you do not
know his timing, you do not know his force. That makes for a lot of
variables you do not know about!
This is
very different from dancing. In dancing, both partners follow the
same rhythm, know what to do and when to do it.
Sword kata
do not work like that because one party is trying to break his
partner’s rhythm, to break his concentration.*
(* in other words, Sensei is likely
saying that you cannot sleep-walk through a kata, assuming that your
partner will be accomodating. You must be in the moment, alert, and
engaged.)

Question:
Really? Is this intentional or unintentional?

Sensei:
Yes, even in performing kata*. The master does so intentionally. A
beginner may do so unintentionally. But it does happen.
(* presumably, during regular
practice at the dojo.)

If your
partner is predictable, that will be his downfall.
So how to
be unpredictable?
Change
pace, distance, force, all within the pre-set forms.

Question:
We get the idea, which we see in Japanese movies like Seven
Samurai, that swordfights do not last very long (for example,
the fight scene in the town between the silent samurai and the
braggart). Usually the fight is finished in one cut. Do you think the
Japanese swordsman’s mindset embraces this idea of “one
cut”?

Sensei:
I’m not sure if the Japanese swordsman embraces this idea. We
are talking about a trained swordsman, yes? They will know how
extremely difficult it is to achieve.

Yes, we do
strive for perfection. The perfect cut. Everyone is looking for the
perfect technique. It is called perfection.
We
practice again, we persevere, eventually we give it up. We don’t
give up swordsmanship, no. But we give up the quest for perfection.
We just
practice right, practice good. Because we can never find perfection.
Perfection finds us.

Question:
?? (I am perplexed).

Sensei:
Looking for perfection, you think perfection is somewhere outside
yourself, instead of cultivating the art within yourself.
Cultivate
your body and mind. Cultivate the art within you. Cultivate the
techniques within you to the point of perfection.