(03-03-2012, 04:39 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Who are we dog piling on exactly? I wanna get my punch in there... Follow the crowd and all...

If you want to "join the crowd" you can always pick any given thread, lurk around until you find whose post got the most "likes" from others and then direct your trolling behavior toward that person. It will also help if you can develop a deep sense of jealously toward anybody else who gets positive attention and make it your personal mission to "take down" these people. If you like, you can style it as "looking out" for these others such that their egos don't get overinflated by positive attention. That will help in case somebody calls your bluff and you need to shift into martyr mode in order to save face.

We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.

Just have to say that this has been a very useful thread--I wouldn't denigrate any form of catalyst offered. May I perhaps offer that the conflicts I've seen here mirror conflicts we have in the world and that the discussion of conflict here may help us process our conflicts out there? And everyone here is at least trying to live and understand the LoO.

I've never been involved in any kind of forum, so this is my first experience with this kind of thing. Still, it seems like a wonderful pressure-cooker where we can gain yet more experience and understanding--and not just of the intellectual meaning of the RA Material--aren't other selves the most fruitful form of catalyst?

Here's a quote (it's not the EXACT context of disharmony between people, but I still think it is applicable):
19.12 RA: This catalyst then is shared between peoples as an important part of each self’s development as well as the experiences of the self in solitude and the synthesis of all experience through meditation. The quickest way to learn is to deal with other-selves. This is a much greater catalyst than dealing with the self. Dealing with the self without other-selves is akin to living without what you would call mirrors. Thus, the self cannot see the fruits of its being-ness. Thus, each may aid each by reflection. This is also a primary reason for the weakening of the physical vehicle, as you call the physical complex.

I love you all for sharing this--I am overwhelmed with gratitude.

@tenet -- I hope you're in a field where you can counsel others! If I'd had you as a friend 5 years ago, I'm sure it would have taken me less time to see through my self delusions! Maybe you could start some kind of common-sense-no-BS-see-your-blockages-for-what-they-are service!

(03-03-2012, 04:39 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Who are we dog piling on exactly? I wanna get my punch in there... Follow the crowd and all...

If you want to "join the crowd" you can always pick any given thread, lurk around until you find whose post got the most "likes" from others and then direct your trolling behavior toward that person. It will also help if you can develop a deep sense of jealously toward anybody else who gets positive attention and make it your personal mission to "take down" these people. If you like, you can style it as "looking out" for these others such that their egos don't get overinflated by positive attention. That will help in case somebody calls your bluff and you need to shift into martyr mode in order to save face.

You're not being clear. I originally thought we were against this type of activity. Now we encourage it?

I understand that some of the mild dramas that erupt on this forum can be a bit discomforting at times. To anyone sensitive to disharmonious vibration - as likely most of us are (due probably to our souls' more love/light-filled origins) – it can upset our own peace of mind to witness, or participate in, quarreling. I understand that you, in response to these situations, experience frustration. Likely all of us do. It causes unease for each of us. Learning to love one another, even among a group of relatively conscious and heart-oriented beings, is difficult. It is replete with many hidden possibilities of inadvertently triggering an other's patterns of pain, projection, and underlying core loneliness.

I concur completely with your (paraphrased) core message in this post of, "If you're bent out of shape, *you* (the individual bent out of shape) are the only one that caused it."

As Ra iterates in the Law of One material, taking responsibility for ones creation is exponentially empowering. (I believe "exponential" is the right term.) In taking responsibility, we stop being victims of what others do or don't do, say or don't say, and realize that instead of reacting in myriad negative ways – unconsciously perpetuating the catalyst that we seek to eliminate – we can proactively find creative and constructive ways to serve a situation and allow the awareness of the One Creator to absorb the catalyst at hand, and withdraw from service if we see no opportunity.

Also, your term "butthurt" is hilarious. : )

- - - - - - - -

That said, here's my take on your post. During a workshop I attended co-taught by Jack Kornfield, a Buddhist teacher, he said something that's always stuck with me. He suggested that one not complain about traffic while they are in traffic. Reason being: they *are* traffic, and they are creating traffic just like every other car stuck in the situation.

While I read your post as containing a 100% sincere attempt to aid situations of disharmony, and appreciate your attempt to offer your viewpoint with the hopes of greater forum harmony, the basic energetic thrust of your post – from my point of view – seems nevertheless to be an act of venting, of heating the temperature back into the red, of stirring a pot whose contents need to settle, and of perpetuating a dynamic you rail about by complaining about complaining. Add to that, it is, by definition, divisive, through and through.

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I will preface this post by saying that I really have no idea what specifically went down on the forum to precipitate this discussion as I haven't been participating all that much. Nor have I read this entire thread, but am responding to Diana's original post, as well as all the other threads that I have recently found that are on the topic of persistent forum drama. There appear to be quite a number of them.

If you will allow me to fill you in then.

Each who has been embroiled in Bring4th’s version of “drama” (which by the world’s standards is comparatively time, mild, and easy to work through), has worked hard to meet other members in the middle. Even one individual who was particularly obstinate, surrendered a great deal of his position in order to walk a higher road of meeting in the open heart. This took great courage.

Each who has directly participated in this difficulty which causes you pain has given their best. Each has worked to restore harmony between members. That is my certain, unwavering opinion. If you would avail yourself of the threads in question to which you refer, you may reach a similar conclusion, and be inspired therein.

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: NEWSFLASH!! There is no other. It is an illusion. There is only YOU here. Nobody is victimizing you but YOURSELF. Do you get it? Or do you think that is just some airy-fairy spiritual BS that doesn't apply in this reality? If so... then really what is the purpose of continuing to participate in this forum? Why are you here if you don't even believe in the most BASIC PREMISE of the Law of One?

Excellent points and excellent questions, indeed.

In which case, if I may ask you, what is all your emotion about? There is only YOU here, dear Tenet Nosce.

Quote:Most people would rather be right than be happy.

Related to this quote you offered, one of Carla’s often-repeated maxims is: It is more important to be loving than to be right. While I don’t always closely adhere to this shining gem of insight, it is one I keep with me to help clarify situations of disagreement I find myself in.

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Do you see how we keep allowing these people to drain our energy? Do you see that it doesn't matter HOW MANY TIMES somebody tries to step in and play "peacemaker" that it DOESN'T WORK? It will never work, because you can't make peace with somebody who is hell-bent on conflict.

While I agree that if someone’s mind is absolutely set on a certain course of action – whether consciously or unconsciously chosen, and whether that course is one of conflict or manipulation or even serving another in a positively oriented sense – little can be done to cause them to alter their course, though certain leaders like Gandhi felt that even the most hardened and sinister of human beings could be redeemed through satyagraha, non-violent resistance through love.

That said, I honestly and personally do not see this dynamic at play in the forums as you’ve described it. And I don’t know of one member who matches this description.

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: If you don't like the way this forum is run, or the people who are here, THEN LEAVE

Tenet Nosce, this is not the spirit of this temple, and this is not how it was originally designed and conceived. I have suggested to some members that, if they desire a radically alternative online community experience, they design another community more to their liking elsewhere on the net, but at no point did I intend to convey that a member must either like every aspect of this forum or leave, with no in-between.

Another equally valid and viable and constructive option short of leaving is to engage the principle mechanism of the Bring4th temple: communication. Instead of liking or leaving, we can discuss, we can talk things through, we can respectfully share with all parties that with which we are not satisfied. Should discussion not result in clearer understanding, and/or a change in perspective, and/or a change in policy, then the option always exists for a forum member to, as you say, leave. But until that free will decision is made, the spirit is not “like it or leave”.

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: And for those of us who have been wasting our precious time and energy responding to these clowns... here is my recommendation. Just start ignoring these people, and eventually they will leave.

This, Tenet Nosce, is something that perks up the moderator consciousness in me. While there is room for interpretation and discussion about the dynamics of the situation and what you intend with this statement, from where I stand, this goes unambiguously against our first and most fundamental guideline. I see this in the certain colors of disrespect. My friend, name-calling is categorically incompatible how people are expected to participate in the forums.

In my humble and fallible opinion, the orientation of your post is quite confused, Tenet Nosce. While speaking to the unity of all things and our intrinsic oneness, your communication is rife with notes of “us vs. them”, with a somewhat derogatory attitude expressed towards “them”. Making wisdom-based perceptions of discernment between things is one thing. In many senses there are “us’s” and “thems”. It becomes incongruent with unity, in my opinion, when it begins to deride the thems as undesirables.

And in that light I really feel 3DMonkey had a right to ask who was being “dog-piled” on, because that was in a way what was happening in your post, in my opinion. Prior to reading his response I figured that he was one of the “thems” you were targeting.

Again I understand your desire to help, and as a moderator appreciate any member who wishes to – with patience, kindness, and humility – do the hard and often not-so-fun work of conflict resolution.

I hope you receive these thoughts with the respect their intended, Tenet Nosce. : )

With love and appreciation, Gary

Explanation by the tongue makes most things clear, but love unexplained is clearer. - Rumi

(03-03-2012, 03:35 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I have been embroiled in some very heated debates with all of you.

Oh yes! But our discussions have always been respectful and stimulating, even in the heat of disagreement.

(03-03-2012, 03:35 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: But not once has it devolved into name-calling, butthurtness, and a need for moderator intervention. Not once.

You're right! Not an ounce of feeling offended on anyone's part. Very cool! I enjoy discussing with you, even when it turns into good-natured sparring. Why? Because it's good natured and always respectful. And intelligent.

(03-03-2012, 03:35 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Why is this? I propose it is because each of us operates under the premise that WE ARE ONE and we interact with each other out of that basic understanding and respect, whether or not we agree on the topic du jour.

Exactly!

(03-03-2012, 03:35 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: It is wise of you to look for your own responsibility in these conflicts... but that can also go too far. People like you, me, Pickle, Ankh, and others can actually sometimes take too much responsibility for the actions of others. This, too, is a type of imbalance.

Been there done that!

(03-03-2012, 03:35 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Our only responsibility in life is to speak our truth as best as we see it, while knowing that greater truths are ever on the horizon. If our communication style pisses somebody else off, or is found to be offensive, I say too bad for them.

(03-03-2012, 03:35 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: We are perfectly capable of having intelligent, if sometimes heated, discussions, on this forum without having to pander to those who are unwilling to move past a juvenile stage of emotional development, and who take offense over the slightest disagreement or harsh word.

You're so right. Why in the world should we get offended at the opinions of others? As though it had something to do with us....

Kidding apart; seriously, folks, you are doing a very difficult job and it can be emotionally draining. Especially so when the highest principles of love have to be allowed to co-exist with firm correctness in the consensual ways perceived. Kudos to you for holding out well. Best wishes from my side. Also, thank you for patiently listening and responding to all views.

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: The reason I haven't been participating in this forum is because I have had it up to the ears with the drama that has been going on here. The bitching, whining, complaining is really out of hand, and I find it to be incredibly disheartening to see this kind of behavior persist on this forum.

Yes, yes.

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Here we are in a "spiritual" forum that is predicated upon the teaching that "All Is One". Why is it that we are even ENTERTAINING discussions which involve finger-pointing and accusations that the problem has to do with something external, or some "other" person out there in cyberland?

Profound

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Over the last couple of years, I have watched several people leave this forum due to an inability to have an intelligent discussion without SOMEBODY getting all pissy and butthurt over it. At first I thought... well maybe it is these people who are really being offensive. But after a while I noticed that it doesn't matter who leaves, the scapegoating and finger-pointing just get shifted to a different person.

so true!

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: It is the SAME core group of people who keep having forum conflicts with other members that come and go. Question: What is the common denominator in all of these conflicts? Answer: YOU.

Wow

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: NEWSFLASH!! There is no other. It is an illusion. There is only YOU here. Nobody is victimizing you but YOURSELF. Do you get it?

I GET IT Tenet! You are so right.

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Or do you think that is just some airy-fairy spiritual BS that doesn't apply in this reality? If so... then really what is the purpose of continuing to participate in this forum? Why are you here if you don't even believe in the most BASIC PREMISE of the Law of One?

Oh man...so true...

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: The problem is not "out there" it is within you.

Seriously... I have been a member of this forum for nearly two years, and it is the SAME people over and over again who b****, complain, whine, and get into conflicts with other forum members.

It's not the rules. It's not the mods. It's not unity100. It's not Tenet Nosce. It's YOU. If YOU are the one who "can't stand" this or that person... If YOU are the one who is always butthurt at some perceived offense against you... If YOU are the one who is repeatedly at the center of forum drama... then YOU are the one who needs an attitude adjustment.

Man you're hitting all them corners...

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: If you don't like the way this forum is run, or the people who are here, THEN LEAVE and allow everybody else to have some freaking peace and quiet around here. Stop trying to run everybody else out. It is as simple as that. Go start your own forum with your own rules (or lack thereof) and then only allow people to join who agree with your own opinions and biases. You are free to do that.

Well so true! so easy to say it should be this way or that way...not so easy to actually do it.

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: So now that has been said... it is fine with me if you want to point the finger back at me. It's alright if you call me a hypocrite, because I AM. We all are. This is because there is only one of us here. So even as I offer this mini rant and unsolicited advice I understand that I am only talking to myself. And I intend to take my own advice.

That's what makes your advice valuable...that you are willing to take your own advice. This means a lot!

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: The question is... will YOU? Or will you continue to create an unjust world where everybody is out to get you and where you are the victim of circumstance? Or will YOU finally choose to begin the process of letting that go?

Cool! I will start NOW!

(03-03-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Once many years ago somebody gave me a piece of wisdom that really pissed me off. After bitching and complaining to them about the world, my life, and how miserable I was at the time, this person said to me:

Quote:Most people would rather be right than be happy.

WOW! I was so guilty of that! (In my case, not so much needing to be 'right' but needing to be understood.) But not anymore! I now choose to be HAPPY!!!!

(03-04-2012, 12:00 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: As Ra iterates in the Law of One material, taking responsibility for ones creation is exponentially empowering. (I believe "exponential" is the right term.) In taking responsibility, we stop being victims of what others do or don't do, say or don't say, and realize that instead of reacting in myriad negative ways – unconsciously perpetuating the catalyst that we seek to eliminate – we can proactively find creative and constructive ways to serve a situation and allow the awareness of the One Creator to absorb the catalyst at hand, and withdraw from service if we see no opportunity.

Here is the quote:

Ra Wrote:10.12 Questioner: Then although many entities are not consciously aware of it, what they really desire is to accelerate their growth, and it is their job to discover this while they are incarnate. Is it correct that they can accelerate their growth much more while in the third density than in between incarnations of this density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. We shall attempt to speak upon this concept.

The Law of One has as one of its primal distortions the free will distortion, thus each entity is free to accept, reject, or ignore the mind/body/spirit complexes about it and ignore the creation itself. There are many among your social memory complex distortion who, at this time/space, engage daily, as you would put it, in the working upon the Law of One in one of its primal distortions; that is, the ways of love. However, if this same entity, being biased from the depths of its mind/body/spirit complex towards love/light, were then to accept the responsibility for each moment of the time/space accumulation of present moments available to it, such an entity can empower its progress in much the same way as we described the empowering of the call of your social complex distortion to the Confederation.

The grand illusion is perhaps that there are others around you, who you get weary of, or frustrated at, or fighting with, while in fact, all this time it is done to the self by the self.

_______________________
A guiding key question for one who seeks the heart of existence is: "Where is the love in this moment? "
- Q'uo 20090203

(03-03-2012, 06:09 PM)Oceania Wrote: Tenet are you talking about something that happened?

Nothing in particular... as I said I really have no idea what the latest conflict was about, or who was involved. I was sharing my thoughts and feelings based on a number of different experiences, some within this forum, and some without.

We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.

Quote:I understand that you, in response to these situations, experience frustration.

The frustration is not at the fact that there are conflicts and quarrels- it is directed at those who intentionally initiate them knowing good darn well what they are doing, and then cry foul when their ill-intent boomerangs back in their face. For even the most cursory student of the Law of One, this result shouldn't really come as a surprise. You get back what you put out. No more, no less.

Quote:Learning to love one another, even among a group of relatively conscious and heart-oriented beings, is difficult. It is replete with many hidden possibilities of inadvertently triggering an other's patterns of pain, projection, and underlying core loneliness.

Absolutely. I would add that learning to love one another sometimes involves dispensing with the "niceties" and taking a more direct approach. In this game that we call "life" these types of experiences are referred to as "wake-up calls". We each are given exactly the catalyst we need by the Creator to support our highest potential and growth- and more often than not it isn't sugar-plum fairies and butterflies.

Actually, I will rephrase that... typically the "wake-up calls" come after repeated and willful ignorance of the more subtle and gentle cues that suggest an attitude/behavior change is needed. Therefore, once the catalyst has escalated to something more "in your face", to whine and complain that it isn't gentle enough is yet another avoidance mechanism as, most likely, the more gentle forms of adjustment have already been tried, and have failed. Repeatedly.

Quote:Also, your term "butthurt" is hilarious. : )

Thanks! Though I didn't come up with it... here is a handy-dandy complaint form. I share it here so as to demonstrate that the issues of which I speak are not unique to this forum.

Quote:While I read your post as containing a 100% sincere attempt to aid situations of disharmony, and appreciate your attempt to offer your viewpoint with the hopes of greater forum harmony, the basic energetic thrust of your post – from my point of view – seems nevertheless to be an act of venting, of heating the temperature back into the red, of stirring a pot whose contents need to settle, and of perpetuating a dynamic you rail about by complaining about complaining. Add to that, it is, by definition, divisive, through and through.

Your assessment is quite correct. Though I would point out that the "pot" never seems to get settled- which again is the primary thrust of my discontent.

Quote:If you would avail yourself of the threads in question to which you refer, you may reach a similar conclusion, and be inspired therein.

While I appreciate your invitation, seeing is believing, the proof is in the pudding, time will tell, and many other quips like that. I've too many times seen things "smoothed over", apologies given, hearts exchanged, only to watch the same behavior appear again and again. Apologies are meaningless if they are not followed up with a sincere attempt at changing one's behavior.

Quote:In which case, if I may ask you, what is all your emotion about? There is only YOU here, dear Tenet Nosce.

I am angry with the part of myself that sees attack where there is none, and which displays a seemingly endless need for attention, yet is so uncomfortable with positive attention that it creates negative attention instead.

Quote:That said, I honestly and personally do not see this dynamic at play in the forums as you’ve described it. And I don’t know of one member who matches this description.

I would much prefer that you be right on this, and myself wrong. That being said, there are terms which describe certain inflammatory behavior on Internet forums, such as "derailing" and "trolling". I contend that most people who engage in these behaviors know exactly what they are doing, and derive some sort of sick pleasure from it.

I've been chatting and discussing on the Internet for as long as it has existed. In my experience, once a troll always a troll. It's kind of like digital crack... and just like with many drug addicts until a troll can openly admit that they have a problem, there is little hope for change.

Quote:Tenet Nosce, this is not the spirit of this temple, and this is not how it was originally designed and conceived. I have suggested to some members that, if they desire a radically alternative online community experience, they design another community more to their liking elsewhere on the net, but at no point did I intend to convey that a member must either like every aspect of this forum or leave, with no in-between.

My apologies- I didn't intend to convey an all-or-nothing type scenario. Allow me to rephrase: If you don't like the rules of this forum, or the people who are here, you are free to find another online community that is more amenable to your communication preferences.

Quote:Another equally valid and viable and constructive option short of leaving is to engage the principle mechanism of the Bring4th temple: communication. Instead of liking or leaving, we can discuss, we can talk things through, we can respectfully share with all parties that with which we are not satisfied. Should discussion not result in clearer understanding, and/or a change in perspective, and/or a change in policy, then the option always exists for a forum member to, as you say, leave. But until that free will decision is made, the spirit is not “like it or leave”.

If you want to open the guidelines up for discussion, you are totally free to do that... though I might suggest you brush up on the story of Pandora's Box beforehand.

But beyond this- every person who participates on this forum at some point AGREED to abide by the guidelines. That's the plain and simple truth. Again- there are many forums without such guidelines.

In my mind, it is kind of like when somebody sues for their job back after getting unfairly fired from a company. If the company's policies and procedures are really that crappy, I question why one would make such a great effort to remain employed there.

Quote:This, Tenet Nosce, is something that perks up the moderator consciousness in me. While there is room for interpretation and discussion about the dynamics of the situation and what you intend with this statement, from where I stand, this goes unambiguously against our first and most fundamental guideline. I see this in the certain colors of disrespect. My friend, name-calling is categorically incompatible how people are expected to participate in the forums.

Well then, I retract my statement and offer my apologies. See? Wasn't that refreshingly simple? No need for a grown man to throw a hissy fit tantrum because he received some stern feedback on his behavior. Now watch as I never refer to others as "clowns" in this forum again. This is how spiritual grown-ups handle conflict.

Quote:In my humble and fallible opinion, the orientation of your post is quite confused, Tenet Nosce. While speaking to the unity of all things and our intrinsic oneness, your communication is rife with notes of “us vs. them”, with a somewhat derogatory attitude expressed towards “them”. Making wisdom-based perceptions of discernment between things is one thing. In many senses there are “us’s” and “thems”. It becomes incongruent with unity, in my opinion, when it begins to deride the thems as undesirables.

I see your point, but respectfully, who among us is "qualified" to speak of unity if the prerequisite is unity consciousness?

Quote:And in that light I really feel 3DMonkey had a right to ask who was being “dog-piled” on, because that was in a way what was happening in your post, in my opinion. Prior to reading his response I figured that he was one of the “thems” you were targeting.

Well... if the shoe fits... as I said in my preface I had no idea what happened or who was involved. So if you, 3DMonkey, and others, perceived that my comments were directed toward him that should tell you something. For future reference, be advised that if I have something to say about a particular person, I will address them directly, and by name.

As I attempted to explain- my comments were directed to the general audience, and with the understanding that I, myself, am among those whom I was criticizing. After all, there is only one of us here.

I actually don't mind direct communication and the occasional "pull your head out of your behind" type comment. I find these to be a quite effective, and sometimes necessary, way of dealing with the more spiritually immature aspects of myself.

Quote:I hope you receive these thoughts with the respect their intended, Tenet Nosce. : )

Of course.

We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.

Here is an example of a time when I got reprimanded by Q'uo. Just reading the words, it might not sound like much of a rebuke, however I am quite sure they were giving me a very loving smack upside the head. Perhaps, before reading this, one could ask them to share with you the feeling and emotion they directed toward me when I read this for the first time.

Quote:G: M writes, “It is understood that the veil of forgetting is necessary in order to make the free will choice to polarize to the positive. Yet as a wanderer who has made this choice in the past, I observe that the veil persists within myself. According to my reading of your words, the veil persists within myself because if it were to be removed, it may infringe upon the free will of others who have not yet polarized. Yet I do not understand why this is the case. It would seem to me that it is possible for me to be fully conscious of both third density and fourth density simultaneously without infringing upon the will of others who choose to remain unconscious of fourth density. Please explain why the removal of the veil in one who is polarized would infringe upon the free will of one who is not yet polarized.”

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. My brother, it would not infringe upon the free will of another self for you to become fully aware of both third-density awareness and the lack of the veil which is characteristic of fourth-density awareness. Rather, it would infringe upon the free will of yourself.

You are a certain creature, my brother. It is an excellent creature. You chose to come into third density with its veil of forgetting, specifically because in matters of metaphysical and ethical choice it would throw you completely upon your own assets of faith, hope and charity. You did not come into third density in order to overcome third density. You came into third density to dwell within this illusion and to serve the one infinite Creator.

Have you had to claw your way into an increased awareness of what lies beyond the veil? We think not. We believe that the moments in which you have penetrated the veil are many and they are to be appreciated. Nevertheless, my brother, were you to dwell without effort beyond the veil of forgetting within third density, you would immediately obviate the advantages of living by faith alone. When you choose within this veil of forgetting to turn towards love, to live love, and to be love, you have done so against resistance. And in meeting and working with this resistance, you have tempered your soul and have done the work which you came to do.

Thusly, my brother, we would say that it is not a matter of infringing upon the free will of another that keeps you from being able to dwell in third and fourth densities simultaneously. Rather it is the nature of third density that it takes an effort of will, of memory, of desire and of spiritual maturity to live by fourth-density values and to act as if there was no veil.

Each time that you act in faith to enlarge love and to be its witness and its messenger, you lighten the consciousness of the planet as a whole. And it was for this that you came, my brother. We thank the one known as M for this query and appreciate the energies which provoked the question.

As one might have discerned, Q'uo was exceedingly perceptive of the situation and attitude which precipitated this query. Though it was a genuine query, Q'uo knew that I already had the answer in my mind, though was as yet unwilling to accept it.

I had been hemming and hawing, folding my arms, dragging my heels for long enough and it was time to get over myself and let some BS go that I had been holding onto long past its value or usefulness to my continued growth.

Now I can see many ways in which Q'uo is more skilled than I at shaking a soul up without sounding overly harsh. But the result was that something inside me suddenly clicked in a very Zen-master-cracking-a-stick-at-somebody-who-thinks-they-are-deeply-meditating sort of manner.

I suddenly saw how absurd I was being, and this was finally what resulted in a real, lasting change. As such, I am eternally grateful to my friends of Q'uo for saving me from wasting further energy on the foolish notion of attempting to take down the veil.

I hope that in sharing this story it might add to the credibility of my fallible opinions, and also allay any potential concerns that I might be sitting up on my high horse condemning others for behaviors which are akin to my own. That last part was my ego attempting to manage how others view my fictitious online identity. Silly ego.

We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.

(03-04-2012, 12:00 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: Each who has been embroiled in Bring4th’s version of “drama” (which by the world’s standards is comparatively time, mild, and easy to work through), has worked hard to meet other members in the middle. Even one individual who was particularly obstinate, surrendered a great deal of his position in order to walk a higher road of meeting in the open heart. This took great courage.

Each who has directly participated in this difficulty which causes you pain has given their best. Each has worked to restore harmony between members. That is my certain, unwavering opinion. If you would avail yourself of the threads in question to which you refer, you may reach a similar conclusion, and be inspired therein.

I actually don't think this has happened, which is why the drama continued (continues). I am not trying to stir up more drama. I am just saying that we could all try harder to get along.

Just because Tenet has been (lovingly) reprimanded, does not mean Tenet's words should be disregarded. Although he may have been frustrated and less "loving" in his approach, there was COMMON SENSE and TRUTH in what he conveyed.

u know i have to agree with tenet here. why is any drama still going on. and for the life of me i keep trying to find a reason something to hook onto and i dont see it. conflict , offense exists because people want it to exist that is the truth. israel palestine exists because there are people on both sides who dont want it to stop. and that's the truth. and i got no dog in this fight if there even is a fight going on ive lost track lol she loves me , no wait she loves me not oops wait she loves, nah she doesnt, u get the picture.
truth is we have a LOT of freedom on these forums a lot . wont get it anywhere else i can tell u that . someplace else wouldnt tolerate all this and wouldnt bend over backwards. my view is this forum represents carlas and jims life work. and i personally respect that. because for me Carla represents pure love . and i dont always agree with her but i do respect what she says and it comes from a pure soul. so me coming in here and dumping my personal crap is like throwing garbage on the dining room table when i am invited over to someones house. i dont get it. if im grateful to Carla and jim for this site i will keep my garbage on face book i can dump it over there . i dont really want to muddy the waters over here . to me it distracts form the real purpose of the site, which to me is to establish a closer connection between souls. right now we have people taking sides . it reminds me of cliques in church. or whos wearing what in church whos driving what car. thats not why i go to church. i go to church to commune with god. i come to these forums to commune not get sucked into a seemingly never ending drama. and again i dont know who the hell is right or wrong here but i do know one thing, drama only exists because people want it to exist. that is a fact. for me actually the most important thing in life is harmony i could not live in a house where people are arguing all the time i grew up in a house like that my dad was alcoholic and was always ranting and raving about something. not in my house never happen . so long as people dig in their heels we have israel palestine. and until the parties involved here want to surrender and see the good in each other we are going to keep on having im right hes wrong hes right shes right . until everybody involved lets go of the need to win it aint going to end. now im probably hated by everybody involved but i didnt say this to offend anyone but i know i probably have but this whole thing is making me want to bang my head against the wall until it bleeds. we dont have a problem here, the people who just got hit by tornadoes in indiana and kentucky, they have a problem. we are making the problems ourselves and it is driving me up the freaking wall that people so much need to be right. aargh aargh aargh

There are many forums out there where debates get out of control and become very personal. I have not read every thread in this forum and there may be some of that here that I am unaware of. But, in general, based upon the threads i have seen, I have not seen the sort of extreme arguments that I have elsewhere.

Most of the people here seem to be willing to make their point and then leave it at that if it seems that some one is taking it too personal.

I try to say what I have to say, and debate with those who disagree, but if it becomes obvious that someone is deliberately looking for an argument, or becoming insulted, I will give up on it.

There is absolutely no reason to insult somone here, and getting caught up in back and forth insults are certainly of no benefit to either side.

I think if we show understanding with love and compassion that we can avoid such incidences.

But in the end, it is a fact the moderators have the final say as to what they define as acceptable.

(03-05-2012, 01:56 PM)norral Wrote: u know i have to agree with tenet here. why is any drama still going on. and for the life of me i keep trying to find a reason something to hook onto and i dont see it. conflict , offense exists because people want it to exist that is the truth. israel palestine exists because there are people on both sides who dont want it to stop. and that's the truth. and i got no dog in this fight if there even is a fight going on ive lost track lol she loves me , no wait she loves me not oops wait she loves, nah she doesnt, u get the picture.
truth is we have a LOT of freedom on these forums a lot . wont get it anywhere else i can tell u that . someplace else wouldnt tolerate all this and wouldnt bend over backwards. my view is this forum represents carlas and jims life work. and i personally respect that. because for me Carla represents pure love . and i dont always agree with her but i do respect what she says and it comes from a pure soul. so me coming in here and dumping my personal crap is like throwing garbage on the dining room table when i am invited over to someones house. i dont get it. if im grateful to Carla and jim for this site i will keep my garbage on face book i can dump it over there . i dont really want to muddy the waters over here . to me it distracts form the real purpose of the site, which to me is to establish a closer connection between souls. right now we have people taking sides . it reminds me of cliques in church. or whos wearing what in church whos driving what car. thats not why i go to church. i go to church to commune with god. i come to these forums to commune not get sucked into a seemingly never ending drama. and again i dont know who the hell is right or wrong here but i do know one thing, drama only exists because people want it to exist. that is a fact. for me actually the most important thing in life is harmony i could not live in a house where people are arguing all the time i grew up in a house like that my dad was alcoholic and was always ranting and raving about something. not in my house never happen . so long as people dig in their heels we have israel palestine. and until the parties involved here want to surrender and see the good in each other we are going to keep on having im right hes wrong hes right shes right . until everybody involved lets go of the need to win it aint going to end. now im probably hated by everybody involved but i didnt say this to offend anyone but i know i probably have but this whole thing is making me want to bang my head against the wall until it bleeds. we dont have a problem here, the people who just got hit by tornadoes in indiana and kentucky, they have a problem. we are making the problems ourselves and it is driving me up the freaking wall that people so much need to be right. aargh aargh aargh