I think it's time for some actual regulations, but, with previous evidence, any company that might not benefit from these regulations will probably lobby against it.

I can understand here in Mexico, do I like it? No, and I'm one of the few architects/civil engineers that try to uphold the law when it comes to construction and/or design, even if most of my buildings are residential, but how do you guys let these things happen in the US? It's supposed to be a more progressive country, more advanced (supposedly) when it comes to building regulations.

vernonFL:Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

vernonFL:Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

I would guess some years ago the plant was farther way (so to speak) then the development encroached it. The land was probably cheaper around the plant so to save a few bucks, people took a gamble on building near the plant

The fertilizer plant that exploded Wednesday night in West, Texas, reported to the Environmental Protection Agency and local public safety officials that it presented no risk of fire or explosion, documents show.

West Fertilizer Co. reported having as much as 54,000 pounds of anhydrous ammonia on hand in an emergency planning report required of facilities that use toxic or hazardous chemicals.

But the report, reviewed Wednesday night by The Dallas Morning News, stated "no" under fire or explosive risks. The worst possible scenario, the report said, would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that would kill or injure no one.

The second worst possibility projected was a leak from a broken hose used to transfer the product, again causing no injuries.

Somebody made a boo boo....or out and out lied.I'm sure the plant operators will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Buhahahaha. Yeah right.

Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

sethen320:Thebloodpotato: sethen320: Thebloodpotato: CygnusDarius: Thebloodpotato: Maud Dib: Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.

You see a Texas tag anywhere? I think Floriduh has us beat in the stupid, dumbass.

stupid as in an having an above average population of materialistic, selfish, egotistical bigots who don't like to hear opinions that conflict with their own and an unwillingness to compromise to boot...i put boot in there because texans love boots and i am willing to give back a little

Your description sounds a lot like New York.

that place is pretty awful until you go deep below the subways...but i wasn't aware they liked boots in new york.

True true...I forgot about the boots. To be fair though we don't all like boots. I like living here but I hate boots, country music, trailer homes, and "muddin". I guess I'm a fluke. I'm also not out in the middle of nowhere though.

im in the same "boot" as you are...i do know alot of people like me but they move to austin.

vernonFL:Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

Dude, it's organic. How can it be dangerous to live near a green business?

sethen320:Walker: The fertilizer plant that exploded Wednesday night in West, Texas, reported to the Environmental Protection Agency and local public safety officials that it presented no risk of fire or explosion, documents show.

West Fertilizer Co. reported having as much as 54,000 pounds of anhydrous ammonia on hand in an emergency planning report required of facilities that use toxic or hazardous chemicals.

But the report, reviewed Wednesday night by The Dallas Morning News, stated "no" under fire or explosive risks. The worst possible scenario, the report said, would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that would kill or injure no one.

The second worst possibility projected was a leak from a broken hose used to transfer the product, again causing no injuries.

Somebody made a boo boo....or out and out lied.I'm sure the plant operators will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Buhahahaha. Yeah right.

They probably will. Its the manager who gets to walk.

Look, ever since it was revealed that BP's "emergency response plan" filed with the US government on how to handle an oil spill for one of their drilling rigs in the gulf of Mexico, included consulting with the world's foremost expert on Penguin ecology (who had been dead a few years when the plan was filed) nothing shocks me anymore

spelletrader:Smelly Pirate Hooker: I believe they did begin evacuating. While firefighters (who I have to guess are probably dead now, if they were close to the plant) were trying to put out the fire.

If the company had done the right thing those fire fighters would have been assisting in the evacuation instead of fighting the fire.

Fire fighters know to never fight a fire when explosive material is involved. They were not adequately informed of the danger and the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties.

OK, thanks, caped crusader. I think it's a little early to be assigning fault, but whatever, you're on the internet, so I guess it's to be expected.

My understanding is, some of the firefighters were volunteers (not full-time FD). So that probably had something to do with it.

Smelly Pirate Hooker:I believe they did begin evacuating. While firefighters (who I have to guess are probably dead now, if they were close to the plant) were trying to put out the fire.

If the company had done the right thing those fire fighters would have been assisting in the evacuation instead of fighting the fire.

Fire fighters know to never fight a fire when explosive material is involved. They were not adequately informed of the danger and the company is directly (and willfully) responsible for those casualties.

spelletrader:The company should have had a coordination plan with local emergency services. No one should have been fighting that fire, they should have concentrated emergency service efforts on evacuation of nearby facilities.

For those interested, situations like this are regulated by 29 CFR Part 1910, Process Safety Management of Highly Hazardous Chemicals; Explosives and Blasting Agents.

While OSHA does periodic audits and inspections of companies (by industry code), realize that they are seriously understaffed for the job and can only inspect a small percentage of plants per year.

Given what is known thus far, that may be closer to the truth than any deliberate action.

bdub77:dletter: bdub77: vpb: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

In a lot of towns the refinery or whatever IS the center of town. It's why there is a town there.

Not from what I've seen. Typically the industry that supports the town is not dead center in the town. Usually because industry is dirty and, no pun intended, you don't shiat where you eat.

It is a town of 2,700 though..... very small towns like that, I don't believe (unfortunately) the city planning was all that great, especially if this town and plant goes back 60-70 years or more.... people just didn't "plan" things that way back then.

I'm not gonna say there aren't tons of exceptions like this one. But most of what I've seen in rural America, the plant is typically several miles away from the residential and town areas.

I would think a fertilizer plant in particular would be further away, not only from smell but because of the potential for something dangerous like this to occur.

I would think that one of the main reasons that you would want some distance would be the danger of an anhydrous ammonia leak, that could kill a lot of people in a short time.

Thebloodpotato:Maud Dib: Poopspasm: vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's Texas. They're stupid there.

You see a Texas tag anywhere? I think Floriduh has us beat in the stupid, dumbass.

theenglish:Biting the troll-bait (or what should be bait)The EPA does not file those safety reports, thank the gold old "we'll let you report on your own compliance and just assume you aren't making crap up" approach of people that hate the EPA for that "mistake"

Yeah, unfortunately this is the case with a lot of government agencies (Federal, State, etc). They lack the manpower and funding and just let industries "police themselves".

theenglish:Biting the troll-bait (or what should be bait)The EPA does not file those safety reports, thank the gold old "we'll let you report on your own compliance and just assume you aren't making crap up" approach of people that hate the EPA for that "mistake"

It's simple. Defund the EPA, then when something bad happens say 'so you guys let the factories report on their own and only conduct random audits, why do we even need you guys, therefore let's completely defund the EPA.'

This is standard GOP practice. Why oh why did Benghazi happen? I'm sure it had nothing to do with Congress defunding the State Department.

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves:FTA: In a safety report on file with the Environmental Protection Agency, the West Fertilizer Co. said that there was no risk of fire or explosion from the ammonia stored near a residential neighborhood and a school, the Dallas Morning News reported. The main hazard was an accidental release of the gas, the report said.

You would think the EPA would know whether that report was total bullshiat just based on the chemicals involved. It's like saying there is no risk of fire from a natural gas pipeline.

vernonFL:Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

==============

Because making rules about not building schools next to ammunition factories is like socialism, it's not free-dumb. So to sum up, MURICA!

BTW, you wanna bet this was a non-union factory, where the illegal Mexicans were being paid minimum wage and no benefits?

vernonFL:Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

It's not really a plant, it's a fertilizer distributor/co-op. Every county from Winnipeg to Del Rio has one of them. Newer ones (rebuilt since the railroad-centric days) will tend to be on the outskirts of whatever small town, but most of them are right in the middle.

Also, putting my guessing bet in, it won't turn out to be the big giant tank that was the issue. Anhydrous is flammable in the right circumstance, but not known for it. A shed or 40-foot-trailer load of granulated ammonium nitrate fertilizer? Also something you'd find at a co-op in every mid-American small town and perfectly capable of that size of boom in a major enough fire.

To give you an idea of just how big this explosion was: it registered onthe Richter scale. granted it was only a 2.2, but the USGS' monitoring devices actually recorded it as an earthquake.

also, strangely enough, the blast occurred almost 66 years to the day after worst industrial accident in US history-also a fertilizer explosion, that occured in Texas city in 1947. In that case it was a freighter, not a factory, but the same fertilizer went boom, which isn;t too suprising since the chemical make-up for "fertilizer" and "explosives" is damn nearly identical

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist:This was a bad week to finish up the first season of Homeland. "Oh what's on the news? Crowds of civilians being blown up. Let's watch some Netflix. Oh, it's more civilians being blown up... Can we just watch Girls instead?"

Even there you're not safe as you'll have to watch them blow a crowd of civilians.

Poopspasm:vernonFL: Its scary how close the neighborhoods and a retirement home were to the fertilizer plant. I don't know about you, but probably just the smell alone would make one want to live farther away. Instead it seemed like it was in the middle of the town.

FTA: In a safety report on file with the Environmental Protection Agency, the West Fertilizer Co. said that there was no risk of fire or explosion from the ammonia stored near a residential neighborhood and a school, the Dallas Morning News reported. The main hazard was an accidental release of the gas, the report said.

You would think the EPA would know whether that report was total bullshiat just based on the chemicals involved. It's like saying there is no risk of fire from a natural gas pipeline.

Seriously, you guys are having a rough week down there. My heart felt wishes to all those affected...

On another note, you guys should be angry at the media who once again deliver countless false statements then correct themselves everytime something bad happens. They get a huge ratings boost then a few hours later, "oops, our bad. We were wrong." Who needs soap operas when you have CNN?

This was a bad week to finish up the first season of Homeland. "Oh what's on the news? Crowds of civilians being blown up. Let's watch some Netflix. Oh, it's more civilians being blown up... Can we just watch Girls instead?"