A Pragmatic Messianic Judaism

Last week’s post about fracturing in Messianic Judaism generated a lot of heated debate, almost 70 comments at the time of this writing. We had everyone from Messianic rabbis to a Jewish anti-missionary to the head of one of the prominent Messianic organizations chiming in the comments. I received offline comments – emails and in-person discussions – from others as well.

Through all that, I think I’ve gained something. Praise to God, I think I’ve got some wisdom I didn’t have before. The thing I’ve learned can be summarized like this: zeal must be checked with pragmatism.

By pragmatism, I mean a faith favoring practical application and living-by-example over ideological “this is how it should be” faith, where often neither you nor the recipient is actually attaining that ideal.

Sounds like a religious fluff sentence, yeah? Well, it’s got real, practical meaning. I hope I can communicate this right.

An analogy through software

Forgive me for a parable that takes a brief excursion into nerdliness; I’m a software developer and nerd at heart; please bear with me.

In software engineering, we have a proverb born out of many years of experience,

“Liberal input, conservative output.”

That is to say, be tolerant and forgiving in what others give to you (input), be strict and precise in what you give to others (output).

As software engineers, a duty we have is to build software according to a spec: a document describing in detail how the software should work. We architect the code so that the software will perform perfectly according to spec.

If the spec says,

“Emails must not have a subject line with character counts > 50.”

Then we will build the software so that emails cannot have subjects with more than 50 characters.

The idealist software developer, often a novice full of youthful enthusiasm, will happily write code to enforce this rule. If a user tries to create an email with a subject longer than 50 characters, his code proudly causes the whole program to crash with a firework display of error messages:

The process will terminate, and the user loses all his work.

Users start complaining they are losing all their work.

But the idealist programmer won’t budge: “NO!”, he insists, “The spec is clear, no email subjects with more than 50 characters! You’re not working according to the spec! We cannot continue running the program when there is corrupted data in it!”

But the experienced and pragmatic programmer takes a different approach. He looks beyond just the words in the spec; he understands the spec’s rule about email subjects lengths was intended to prevent abuse of the system. He crafts his code such that he is liberal with his input; when a user creates an email with more than 50 characters in the subject line, the program won’t crash. Rather, the pragmatic programmer accepts this input, deals with it perhaps through truncating the subject line, then sends it along with the 50 character limit intact.

Liberal input, conservative output.

He prevents abuse, which was what the spec was after all along, while still having some grace when it comes to users that might not even know about the spec.

Experienced, pragmatic developers know the wisdom here, and that is why forgiveness by default is the only way for the internet itself to work. A pragmatic programmer writes,

“I tried browsing the web with “show Javascript errors” turned on, and quickly realized that the web is full of JavaScript errors. You can barely click through three links before encountering a JavaScript error of one kind or another. Often they come in pairs, triplets, sometimes dozens of them. It's nearly impossible to navigate the web with JavaScript error notification enabled.

JavaScript errors are so pervasive, in fact, that it's easy to understand why Internet Explorer [web browser] demotes them to nearly invisible status bar elements. Without this, nobody would be able to browse the web without getting notified to death. Firefox [web browser] goes even further: there's no visible UI whatsoever for any JavaScript errors on the current web page. You have to open the Tools Error Console dialog to see them.”

Exceptional faith in Messiah

Back to Messianic Judaism and its fragmentation, we have a lot of idealists here, people who shout with righteous enthusiasm, “Error! Error! You’re not following the Scriptures!” each time they encounter something that isn’t according to the Scriptures as they understand it. Having so many idealists in the Messianic movement is like browsing the web with Javascript errors turned on – it’s almost unbearable as scary error notifications pop-up in every direction.

Yes, it’s true that our religion is full of errors. You can barely navigate through a few beliefs before encountering errors of every imaginable kind. But we’re too dogmatic, too unforgiving and draconian, when it comes to other’s faith and theology. I’ve done this, I’ve torn apart Christians because they don’t understand God’s commandments in the Torah. They are pork-eating pagans who curse God’s law, they’re lost in Babylon, there’s little hope for them, I’ve said to myself. And more than once, I’ve slammed Messianics over rabbinical issues.

I’ve had the same done to me: I’ve been called a heretic more times than I care to count. “You’re not working according to the spec Bible!” I’ve been told so many times, “This is heresy! Judah is preaching heresy!” Error! Error!Error!

When this happens, people can lose their work, so to speak. It can damage the body of Messiah. They lose heart and become discouraged. Some have gone as far to completely abandon it all; maybe Evangelical Christianity will be a more welcoming home, or maybe the Chabadniks will show more love.

All this for what end? Better adherence to the spec? Sure, and that might be admirable, but we must advocate this without causing Messiah-lovers to fall.

It’s the religious equivalent of a catastrophic failure dialog.

Novice idealists in the faith produce these “error dialogs” a lot. And by “novice idealists”, I don’t mean only those who are “young in the faith”; plenty of these idealists have decades of experience in this faith, yet remain convinced they’ve got it figured out, and thus, have completely shut themselves out to engagement with others.

Novice idealists contribute greatly to the fracturing in Messianic Judaism. Yes, there are legitimate differences in theology and doctrine at times, but often of more concern is the animosity between those with different doctrines. Sometimes the animosity created is worse than the thing you’re opposing.

Everything’s not lost

Idealists aren’t all bad, thank God! They produce a lot of value in the form of zeal. To use a religious cliché, they’re often on fire for God and very zealous in their beliefs. Many of those beliefs are good and holy, whether it’s the zeal for God’s commandments, an out-loud love for Messiah, a love for God’s people, Zionism, to name some.

Like a software engineer graduate fresh out of college bringing new enthusiasm to a project, novice idealists often bring a new wave of enthusiasm and zeal for God, helping to stoke and rekindle a dwindled fire in the old pragmatists.

Messianic Judaism is full of these enthusiastic idealists. It is composed almost entirely of 2 groups that are extremely zealous:

Jews who took an enormous risk in searching out Yeshua as Messiah of Israel, at the cost of being disowned by Jewish family members and labeled as betrayers of our ancestors, “worse than Hitler”, mourned for as if dead, etc.

Christians who took a big chance in dropping their normal church lives and started digging for the Jewish nature of faith in the God of Israel and the holy nature of God’s commandments, often being labeled as heretics and outcasts by those in normative Christianity, told that their keeping of “that Jewish stuff” causes them to be “under the Law” and without grace.

It should be no surprise so many Messianics are idealists. We’ve made big strides to get here (or rather, God has led us across these huge boundaries), praise to the Lord, and now we’re zealous and on fire. This same zeal can make us idealists, however, as our zeal causes us to vehemently reject without hesitation beliefs we deem outside The Spec.

The answer: maturity and pragmatism

Boaz Michael from First Fruits of Zion related to me that he strives for “high personal standards without condemnation”. I think it’s a mantra that is similar to software’s “liberal input, conservative output.”

Truth be told, as much as I’m zealous for the Torah, following the spec as I see it, and talking about it all the time on this blog, I’ve got some issues. Heck, my personal standards allow for more time on the internet and TV than in the Scriptures by a ratio of 10:1, easy!

Meanwhile, as idealists often do, I’ve been whacking people over the head for not following The Spec. Sorry about that. Forgive my past un-budging, rigid ideology, fine blog readers.

My priorities need to be reordered. I’m upping my personal standards. And I’ll be more liberal with where people are at with God.

This isn’t “let people walk over your beliefs”. Taking a stand for what’s right is righteous.

“I look at the Master’s parable in Matthew 25 about who will sit on the right of the king, and who’s going to be on the left. And you look at that, when he’s separating the sheep and the goats, so to speak, and there’s not one mention of “you who had the right theology, you come over here”, or “you who had the correct Christology, come over here”, or “you who had the correct eschatology, come over here.”

Rather, the basis is, “Did you give food to the hungry? When I was thirsty, did you give me drink? I was a stranger, did you welcome me? I was naked, did you clothe me? I was sick, did you visit me?”

As I read that, at the end of the gospel, that is the heart of our Master coming out right there.

…

The [Chasidic] Rebbe taught his schlichim [“messengers”] to avoid arguments. Unfortunately, a lot of times, we in the Torah movement are known by just that: arguments.

I got off the phone with someone last night and was told of a split in another Messianic congregation. When I asked what it was over, they said it was a doctrinal issue.

How many times have you been involved in situations where people are arguing about things that, in the long run, don’t even matter? I don’t think the world is impressed when we argue about the calendar, about how tzitzit should be tied, and so on.

While there are times for strong rebuke, it is too often the default response, and it’s often given by the enthusiastic idealists. It makes it hard to peacefully exist in this move of God when every other person yells, “Error! Error!Error!”

Zeal is good, keep it. But practice forgiveness by default. High personal standards without condemnation. Liberal input, conservative output. Perhaps then we’ll see more maturity and cohesion in Messianic Judaism. Better yet, maybe we’ll be better servants of Messiah, regardless of doctrinal affiliation.

32 comments:

My perception is that through the work of the Spirit the primary argument (or fight) to establish the Torah as a valid if not preferable manner of discipleship has been won. No longer, for the most part, are we stuck in theologies that have limit the Law to an out dated, irrelevant form of worship. The Father has used us all to work through the difficult texts, reconciling the words of Moses with those of the Messiah.

For First Fruits, while Torah outreach will always be a fundamental part of our organizational DNA we also recognize the need to move beyond the Torah apologetic argument and put more effort into the stability and maturity of this movement.

To that end, what Judah has outlined is essential. Speaking for First Fruits of Zion we remain committed to be a part of the solution and not the problem. We will make peace our mantra. We will continue to have a diverse set of advisors that enable us to have a balanced, yet passionate message. We will have, “high personal standards, without condemnation.”

We desire to be doers of the Law and not in the place of a judge of others. Drawing from James once again,

Do not speak evil against one another brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor. (James 4:11-12)

I hope that our movement will be able to get past the need to examine others, judging the Church, dividing over various halachic standards, and isolating ourselves in our self-righteous circles. If we are not able to do this we will not be the circus your previous post suggests, we will not exist.

May the grace and peace of the Messiah be upon us all. Thanks for a great follow-up and post.

One of the reasons why we have a great deal of the divisions that we have as a broad faith community is the dominance of a spiritual and theological fundamentalism. The montra of "The Bible says it, I believe it, and that's it!" is something that is now finding itself repackaged in Messianic garb. We have too many people pushing dogma, and not enough people developing doctrine.

Of course, developing doctrine takes a very long time. It is not as though you can just flip a switch and all the problems are solved. Such is a distinctly North American way of doing things, but is not something that is seen in the rest of the world. We have to learn to be patient, and we also have to learn to commit ourselves to the hard and arduous work of not only briging stability, but encouraging an ethos by which God's mission for the world is not just accomplished--but accomplished in a unique Messianic way.

I explored these, and other issues, in an article I wrote last year called "How Are We to Live as Modern Messianics?"

I have read this blog and your last blog "fracturing in Messianic Judaism" with interest. I have had contact and read many books from Messianic sources for around 5 years now and I have discovered that they are nearly as diverse in their understanding of certain issues as the church. There have been a few mentions in these blogs of fringe movements. From my perspective as an outisider in the Church, while I may disagree and dislike certain viewpoints in the Messianic movement it is harder to call such viewpoints fringe because the messianic movement is not that large at present. At the height of the polygamy debate last July there where close to 1000 people part of the movement in Florida alone. It was actually because of this teaching that I dissasociated myself from the messianic movement for a while. Fortunately I decided to continue reading and have learnt a lot from people like ffoz, Derek Leman and J.K. McKee just to name a few. In the long term it is in these types of people and organisations that I hope the Messianic will ultimately centre itslef. While these individuals have differing opinions they all teach in the Spirit honesty and humility and allow room for disagreements. Other groups teach in a spirit of I'm right your wrong and going hell. For the sake of the Messianic movement that I hope such fringe groups which spout off about polygamy, the leaper Jesus etc will be disowned. As for the Two House teaching, while I may not understand it all, it is not a doctrinje over which we should seperate from each other on. I view it in much the same was as say the rapture. I don't believe ine a pre-trib rapture but that does not mean that I will stop talking to you because you do. While I was at Bible College I was taught that on the fundamentals there should be no movement but on secondary issues i.e. non-salvation issues there should be grace and understanding. I have not always lived up to this but the more I grow the less black and white certain things appear. I have lost many friends "over the internet" because I would not accept certain things like polygamy and even a hate campaign was started against me because I spoke out against the perversion that appeared in MK's book.

Sorry for rambling, but in essence I do hope that the majority of Messianc Judaism does go down the path of pragmaticism even willing to reach their hands out to us Christian and not lambast us all the time by calling us Pagan's etc.

Fortunately I decided to continue reading and have learnt a lot from people like ffoz, Derek Leman and J.K. McKee just to name a few. In the long term it is in these types of people and organisations that I hope the Messianic will ultimately centre itslef. While these individuals have differing opinions they all teach in the Spirit honesty and humility and allow room for disagreements.

Well said. I think these kind of people will win out over the "You disagree with me, so you're a heretic!" people. It will take time. But it will happen, I see the maturarity sprouting and I think the maturity will spread.

Shalom... please don't mind if I crash your maturation party and rattle some of your bones.

For those here (the overwhelming majority) who were not born Jewish (and yes, I include those here who claim conversion or reclaiming of their "lost Jewishness"), but insist on molding Messianic Judaism into your own idea of what it should and shouldn't be - don't you think it's primarily up to the Jews within the movement to decide the direction their movement should take? Apparently not.

Most of the heated arguments in this blog have to do NOT with following certain traditions, rituals, the how-to's of religious observances, believing in "rapture", or preferring this version of the Bible or the other (although some here tried to equate those minor issues with much bigger issues argued here). Rather , it has to do with something much more basic when it comes to Messianic Judaism - do the Jewish people within it have the right to direct the course of their own JEWISH movement. For example, do we have the right to reject the external doctrinal aberrations of the Batya Wooten's Two House theology from ever becoming part and parcel of the mainstream MJ (like we've already done, thankfully)? Do we have the right to interpret the Acts 15 as most of us Jews believe our own Messianic Jewish forefathers did? Not only because it "seemed good to the Holy Spirit", but also to preserve the biblical Jewish-Gentile distinction (which in reality means primarily not doing away with the distinct Jewish identity!) within the Body? The One Law movement tries so desperately to blur away the Jewish distinction (as many other replacement theology-like streams before it had attempted and failed)?

Before, the mantra was "let's turn Jews into Gentiles by making them abandon their identity and traditions", to the current "let's do away with the Gentile identity - and consequently the Jewish distinction - by abandoning our own Gentile identity and traditions by taking on Hebrew names, garb, traditions, etc".

Different approach, but very similar results - pretending to be something you're not or forcing others to do so.

You want a "pragmatic" Messianic Judaism? Be careful how far you want to take this. As someone once said: If you keep your mind too open, your brain may fall out.

"don't you think it's primarily up to the Jews within the movement to decide the direction their movement should take?"

This is a fair comment but it has one problem. The majority of people within the Messianic community are actually non-Jews. Are you saying that all these non-Jews should have no say in how to run their communities. I am not saying that Jews should not be involved in the direction of their community but rather that all those who are part of it should decide their direction.

Also Gene why do you have such a hatred of the Two House theology. Every time you speak about it I can hear nothing but hatred in your writing. I have read books on both sides of the argument and see nothing on either side which should warent such hatred. For me Two House is not a salvation issue and whether you accept it or not does not affect your salvation. The one thing I don't understand is that since last year I have heard more hatred against the Two House theology and those who teach it than against the disgraceful teaching on polygamy. By the way why the strong attack against Batya Wooten I have read her books and while I may not agree with everything she writes it is none the less an interesting theory.

Much of the discussion (and/or debate) that lies ahead for us in the future will regard a difference of vision, purpose, and missiology for the (broad) Messianic community. Some believe that the Messianic movement needs to remain as just a community of Jewish Believers. Others believe that it is time for the Messianic movement to advance and become something more.

I told Judah this week that I would be posting my own blog on this topic. It will be posted tomorrow in the event that any of you should want to comment.

Thanks for this post. Although I agree with Gene about many parameters of Jewish identity and Torah, I also agree with you, Boaz, JKM, and others on the need for high standards and no condemnation.

I will make an effort to be more inclusive and less divisive (I'm admitting to some past harshness).

I care about preserving Jewish identity and I also care about a role for non-Jews in MJ. Finding the balance is not easy.

In the end, I think the numerous Gentiles who come into Jewish life through the broader MJ/Hebraic Roots (and, yes, even Two House) movement, are an asset if they respect the continuing role of the Jewish people in God's plan.

"I am not saying that Jews should not be involved in the direction of their community but rather that all those who are part of it should decide their direction."

Peter, for the sake of argument, please indulge me in prognosticating on what would happen to the Messianic Jewish movement and Messianic Judaism as a whole should the Gentile "majority" within it decided that the movement has become a bit too Jewish for its taste and then also decided to replace the current Jewish leadership majority with the Gentile leadership more sympathetic to its "plight" as Gentiles? Would it not be the same thing that happened to very first Messianic Jewish movement and Christianity that grew out of it? It would be the repeating of history, my friend.

"Also Gene why do you have such a hatred of the Two House theology. Every time you speak about it I can hear nothing but hatred in your writing."

Because it's another version of Replacement Theology, thus a "sin". You know the saying: "hate the sin, love the sinner". Even thou Judah and others here advocate Two House theology (very seldom, now-a-days, for whatever reason!), I do not harbor any hate for them - but I feel bad that they are confused about who they are in Messiah, and upset that they continue to confuse others in the Body. I would not allow them to be leaders or teachers in my congregation, but I wouldn't throw them out for their Two House beliefs!

It should not be underplayed that there are different ways that people look at the Two-House teaching, and that there is just as much diversity in the Two-House sub-movement as there is in Messianic Judaism. Some want to just throw anyone who even addresses passages like Ezekiel 37:15-28 into the same category as those who follow after Wootten, Koniuchowsky, Chumney, etc., when this is inappropriate. I view the Two-House issue as one of unfulfilled prophecy, and thus being eschatology, it is an issue that is subject to one's interpretation of future events.

If people want to think Israel has already been restored, they can certainly believe this, even though I think when the prophecies are reviewed such a "restoration" seems pretty unimpressive.

I am the first person to say that an entire series of exegetical papers needs to be written on Ezekiel 37 and other relevant passages, engaged with the source languages and the opinions of contemporary scholars from both Judaism and Christianity. This effort will help to the see the teaching refined and taken away from the abuses of the above people, pseudo-history of Davidy and Collins, etc. But again, this kind of work cannot take place instantanouesly.

what would happen to the Messianic Jewish movement and Messianic Judaism as a whole should the Gentile "majority" within it decided that the movement has become a bit too Jewish for its taste and then also decided to replace the current Jewish leadership majority with the Gentile leadership more sympathetic to its "plight" as Gentiles?

That is a fair point. So are you saying that only Jews should have a say in the direction of the messianc movement and all non-jews should keep quiet. I am not saying anywhere that the jewishness of the messianic movement needs to be diluted but how can no-Jews blindly accept everything that the Jews within the Messianic movement says when most of them disagree with each other over many issues.

In everything I write I am writing as an ousider looking in and I am in no way attacking the messianic movement or Jews. I am just trying to understand a movement which I have learnt a lot from over the years. But I have become annoyed that in a lot of cases the first time a Christian comes into contact with the movement is when a contreversy has arisen. It has been mentioned a few times that what is needed in the Messianic movement is patience as they iron out a number of issues. This is true and I hope that this time is granted.

As I said earlier "Fortunately I decided to continue reading and have learnt a lot from people like ffoz, Derek Leman and J.K. McKee just to name a few. In the long term it is in these types of people and organisations that I hope the Messianic will ultimately centre itslef. While these individuals have differing opinions they all teach in the Spirit honesty and humility and allow room for disagreements"

I want to see a mature Messianic which is not afraid to take on certain issues and even egage with the church but in love and humility.

One last thing I don't understand how Two House can be called a sin. Yes you may not agree with it and maybe it is wrong but to call it a sin is going too far. You equate it to replacement theology. I don't see how this can be soo. Most replace theology is anti-Jewish ans anti Israel while must Two House that I have come into contact with are very pro-Jesish and pro-Israel. Yes you are entitled to your opinion and I myself am not sure on the issue so I would not call myself one either but to call it a sin is too much.

"So are you saying that only Jews should have a say in the direction of the messianc movement and all non-jews should keep quiet."

You missed one word what you wrote "messianic movement" - that word is "JEWISH". And the faith is Messianic Judaism (meaning it's a Jewish faith). Many of the "interesting" groups insist on dropping the word "Jewish" - for obvious reasons.

You keep claiming that Gentiles are the majority in the "messianic movement". Whether it's a fact is debatable - I suspect that it depends on who you consider "messianic". If you look at 'Two House' congregations (which are not part of the mainstream MJ, UMJC/MJAA/IAMCS), you probably will find few or no Jews there at all. Same thing for the "Hebrew Roots" and "Nazarene" places - those places are almost uniformly devoid of Jewish involvement or part of the mainstream MJ.

In my own congregation, the majority of people are either Jews or married to Jews. Those who are not Jewish, they understand that first and foremost a Messianic Jewish congregation exist to minister to the spiritual needs of the Jewish people and for that to happen, must be lead by Jews themselves. They also understand that there are countless churches out there who minister to non-Jews, but Jewish believers have really nowhere to go where they can worship as Jews. Those who understand also have a deep love for the Jewish people and are willing to sacrifice for them - like Cornelius did (Acts 10:1) - and not seek their own agendas. I am sorry if this is not politically correct for some - but I do not see a need to apologize for this view.

"But I have become annoyed that in a lot of cases the first time a Christian comes into contact with the movement is when a contreversy has arisen."

Again, you may be confused about which organizations, places and theologies constitute the mainstream Messianic Judaism. Tell of a controversy, and I'll tell whether or not it really comes from a mainstream MJ and whether the originators are Messianic Jews or someone else. In most cases it comes from outside. That's is why I find it so important to expose the teachings of certain groups so that people know the difference.

"You equate it (Two-House) to replacement theology. I don't see how this can be soo."

When you claim, as the Two-House movement does, that you are really Israelites, even though you are not Jewish, but even go farther - that your movement represents 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel, but not only that - that you have the right to the 10/12th of the land of Israel (the bulk of it!) - that's a Replacement Theology.

Please look up "British Israelism" and compare it with the current Two House movement - and tell me you don't see who the parent is!

Thanks Gene for your reply. It seems to me that there are lot of groups claiming to be Messianic with others saying that they are not. Maybe one thing that should be discussed is what exactly does it mean to be Messianic or part of Messianic Judaism. Very often it seems that when people are talking about this movement they are meaning very different things to each other.

Another thing have noticed in certain quarters (although not here) is that many people quote from Jewish source, sages, rabbi's etc. This is fine. I have not problem with this and we can learn a lot from some of them. But when you quote from christian's you are told that you shouldn't quote from "pagan's". I know many here and on other blogs I have been on have no problem quoting from Christians and people like Derek Leeman have even done book reviews on such books. I believe that while Christianity has gone wrong in many place just like Judaism in some places, that we can still learn a lot from certain quarters in both groups.

Gene just one more thing you mentioned British Israelitism. I would never advocate such a belief. as someone who lives in Northern Ireland I have seen first hand what this destructive doctrine can do. I have seen it being used to give backing to some protestants to go out and kill catholics during the troubles. Some paramilitary groups even used it in their manifestoes to back up what they where fighting for. So if I thought that British Israelitism was in any way linked to Two House I would have nothing to do with it.

Thanks again for your responses. It is good when we can discuss things without killing each other.

"But when you quote from christian's you are told that you shouldn't quote from "pagan's"."

Peter... thank you for the constructive dialog. The quote about calling Christian things "pagan" - well, you'll not hear that from Messianic Jews or from mainstream Judaism (of which Derek Lehman you mention is part). This is where many of the Two House, One Law, and Nazarene people come in - just visit their websites, and you'll see words "pagan" in describing Christian beliefs and traditions and words "Babylon" in describing the Christian church. (Disclaimer: apparently not all of Two House people subscribe to that, some like McHuey (mchuey.wordpress.com) have distanced themselves from such talk and oppose their own "party" - and rightly so). Unlike the Two House / One Law congregations, the synagogues that belong to the mainstream Messianic Judaism have very warm, cordial relations with many churches, and our rabbis and leaders are often invited to speak in churches (ask Derek Lehman), and even do joint events on occasion. Just right there you'll see a major difference between the mainstream and fringe.

"So if I thought that British Israelitism was in any way linked to Two House I would have nothing to do with it."

Peter... I don't doubt you sincerity. But please look into the above some more, do a little bit more research.

To add to what Peter has said, my maternal ancestors came to America from England in the 1620s, and my paternal ancestors in the 1770s from Scotland via Ulster. As significant as the later history of the British Empire would be, I have often been the first to denounce any connection between the Hebrew language and English. I do not disagree with Kay Silberling's quote of Walter Martin in the Ephraimite Error, where he rightly states that "British" is not a Hebrew word. I have said this for a very long time (since 2001), and even have an FAQ entry for this on my website.

It is a travesty that in much of the Two-House community, people have taken their attention off of the Biblical text--and what the various prophecies mean--and instead onto this kind of pseudo-history. Even more problematic (or even damning) is how WWCOG theology regarding Yeshua's Divinity, salvation and the born again experience, the afterlife, etc. has manifested itself (because these things, and not British-Israelism, is what got Armstrongism classified as a cult.)

Your respect for the Jewish nation, culture and tradition, your recognition of the various baseless theories much of the Two-House world supports their doctrines with, various other weirdness in that TH movement, your intimate knowledge of both mainstream Messianic Judaism and "other" streams, all makes me very puzzled about why on earth you would join with the Two-House movement in the first place and even help propagate it. I know you have your reasons, and you sincerely believe is this, perhaps you have your own "unique" version of the Two-House stuff, and are trying to "fix' movement's internal problems, or re-focus the movement on, as you say, "yet unfulfilled" Two House prophecies. I am afraid it's a hopeless cause. Instead, I could think of many better uses of your knowledge and energy - like working on creating better understanding and mutual between Messianic Jews and Christians. If Gentile believers in Two House (or elsewhere) really knew of their true worth to G-d and how much He loves them, they wouldn't feel the need to embrace the self hate of things "Gentile" or desire to be "Israelites" and give up their G-d given identity.

I have not "joined" with the Two-House movement you describe and commonly encounter with their poor literature and sensationalism. You do not see our ministry invited to or welcome at their events. As you have witnessed on this blog before, when my name comes up, there is not always the most positive of responses seen.

Why do I believe in *a* Two-House teaching? It is not that difficult to realize when you think about it. It is not because my identity in the Lord is uncertain; it is because as a Biblical interpreter I am still drawn to the text. I still have to deal with the prophecies and promises, whether I am directly or indirectly involved. The end-time restoration of Israel is no small part of the Bible's expectation. I just as much have to deal with the Two-House issue as I have to deal with what the controversies over "genocide" in Joshua, or the debate over Genesis 1 and modern science--things that are at least 20-30x more important!

In all honesty, I have found extremism in Messianic Judaism every bit as much as I have found in the various "Two-House" groups. People deriding Yeshua as Divine, people claiming that the NT was written in Hebrew, people hating the Christian Church--all baseless claims with bad scholastic support. But I would never suggest that people leave Messianic Judaism over these things. Every religious movement has its extremists at the beginning. Just look at the Radical Reformation.

I am no quitter, because if I were I a quitter I would probably see no hope at all in any part of the Messianic movement. Better to just let the whole thing implode on its own with no use keeping a dying horse alive. But as history shows you must hang in for the long term. Let the extremists have their season, and once their way of doing things has proven to be no good, then show why your way is better. This is something our ministry intends to do in the 2010s.

Amen. J.K., you said you're in this for the long haul. Well, praise God for that endurance.

Boaz Michael mentioned Psalm 119 recently:

I have seen that all things have their limit, but Your commandment is broad beyond measure.

Brings to mind that this isn't some fad we're in, this Messiah-loving, Torah-obeying thing, living a life for the Lord. It's a life long thing, for his commandments are beyond measure. Time will refine all of us -- either showing us to be temporary fools thrown about by every little doctrine, or it will show us to be life-long servants of God.

Speaking of time, I'm already beginning to witness a change in attitude. People are beginning to realize (even slowly) that using terms like pagan, Babylon, deceived, lied to, etc. have not worked when it comes to testifying to a life of Torah observance to Christians. I think people are going to see that if we join in areas with agreement, and look to things like the Westminster Confession or John Wesley's sermons--previous Protestant traditions that held to a high view of the OT moral law--expressing agreement and a continuence of these sentiments, we will be exactly what is needed for our generation. We will be continuing the work of those who have preceded us, now being aided with Jewish information that they lacked.

"In all honesty, I have found extremism in Messianic Judaism every bit as much as I have found in the various "Two-House" groups. People deriding Yeshua as Divine, people claiming that the NT was written in Hebrew, people hating the Christian Church--all baseless claims with bad scholastic support."

I am sorry, but I have not seen what you're describing in the mainstream MJ (I am not claiming that individual cases don't exist, there are always nutcases out there). Are you talking about mainstream MJ organizations and whole Messianic JEWISH congregations teaching those views (can you point me to their sites or name them) or some individuals that you've come across in times past holding such positions? You're describing something that doesn't sound like what I've experienced personally.

"I am no quitter, because if I were I a quitter I would probably see no hope at all in any part of the Messianic movement."

Obviously, all one has to do is search the Internet you will find websites that are under the label of "Messianic Judaism" that are pretty extreme. Julio Dam is one of the worst examples of such extremism. Of course, it is entirely inappropriate to broad brush a movement because of some bad people.

I would say that congregational leaders I have talked to in mainline groups like the UMJC or MJAA probably could improve their engagement with Biblical Studies--and veer more toward the Center in these areas--but they are not extreme.

"Obviously, all one has to do is search the Internet you will find websites that are under the label of "Messianic Judaism" that are pretty extreme. Julio Dam is one of the worst examples of such extremism."

Yes, there are a lot of groups who've placed themselves under the MJ umbrella. I am not taking about them - but the mainstream MJ organizations you've listed and congregations belonging to them do not teach freaky stuff.

Is that Paraguayan Julio Dam guy even Jewish? I've seen a lot of pseudo-maranos coming from South America. In his congregation all members are "Jews by faith", including its Gentile members. Sure sounds like a One Law place to me, not the mainstream MJ.

Faith

Messianic Apologetics
Scripturally-sound, balanced teaching. Engaged with modern Christian and Jewish scholarship. Unchanged by the winds of pop doctrine. Messianic apologist J.K. McKee and his ministry defends and advances a pro-Messiah, pro-Torah faith in the God of Israel. Sees believers joined with the Jewish people as part of an enlarged Israel.

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Tim Hegg, Caleb Hegg, Rob Van Hoff, and a host of mature, theologically-trained teachers expound on the Bible through articles, books, videos and podcasts. Avoids the sensationalism of Hebrew Roots and the religion-emulation of Messianic Judaism. Advocates for a Torah-observant faith through Messiah.

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Laying a firm foundation in Messiah and Torah. Apologetics, study, articles and more from a host of guests from the independent Messianic movement.

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Wisdom on world events from Israeli believers Avner and Rachel Boskey.

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Integrating faith and knowledge in the public square. Evidence for God. Apologetics. Fighting against the tide of secularism through reason and evidence.

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From the Jewish luminary mind of Dennis Prager, Prager University produces free, short 5 minute videos on culture, politics, faith, and more. Changing minds one video at a time. Check out their Prager U YouTube Channel

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