Replies to This Discussion

[sigh] How many times do we have to pull quotes out of the Skeptic's Annotated Koran before these dipshits will acknowledge that the koran completely embraces the "us vs. them" attitude, that it instructs believers to abjure friendships with christians and jews (and doubtless atheists!), and insists on death for apostates?

Wanting to educate myself I purchased a Koran. Opening it randomly, the first thing I found was a mandate to kill nonbelievers. I haven't picked it up since, but I highly doubt I stumbled upon the one violent message on the first go.

In our "Inquiry in the Humanities" Honors class in my freshman year of college, we were given Korans once during our discussion of religion. I shit you not, literally the first time I just randomly opened the book, there was a passage about killing non-believers. I was like "O_O;;".

Having two copies of the Koran with me myself, I have decided to perform this fun little experiment. Ok, first one, what do we have? A bit about Allah punishing the wrongdoers with terrible punishment and destroying many a township so that they lay in ruins... those who strive against us will dwell in hell-fire... truly Allah is all-knowing and all-wise... those who doubt this will find torment on the day of ressurection... unbelievers will find a humiliating torment in hell... but the believers will be in Paradise, so, yay for them! Ok, not very nice at all, let's try the second one.

On the day the lord comes, hell shall be presented to the unbelievers... Hell is prepared as an entertainment for the ubelievers... and the unbelievers shall go to hell! Ok, worst broken record ever!

Well to be fair in the parts I just read and summarized for you guys, it was the wrathful vengeful hate-filled god Allah who was doing all the killing and burning and torturing and humiliating and laying waste to villages. I would love it if someone would give us a quote, complete with source, which shows the Koran telling its followers to kill unbelievers or transgressors or what have you. I'm sure they're there, I just don't have the source.

The killings are one of the more shocking aspect of Quranic teachings about non-believers. They're not supposed to befriend them. If they befriend them, it's better to befriend Christians than to befriend Jews because Jews are treacherous according to the Holy Qur'an. And then there's the issue of wife-beating which draws all kinds of apologetics and crazy arguments, sometimes even from women.

Women in the West who convert to Islam, coming from societies where women have more rights and freedoms than probably ever before, they end up in a faith where they would marry a man who 1. must be muslim, 2. may acquire three more wives if he can afford them and 3. may then physically attack her, Qur'an in hand, because this is 4:34, the verse where wife beating is endorsed if wives are not obedient. It's not a matter of whether it's acceptable, it's a matter of how to apply this verse. This is never questioned, not even by the imams. Read:

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand. - Qur'an 4:34

Ok, the Koran permits wife-beating under certain circumstances. Very liberal. I remember there is also a part which lays out further rules for how one should beat his wife, as in with a stick which is no wider than one of your fingers. Again, I don't have the source. Anyone know where one goes to find a reference to all the nasty and brutish elements of the Koran? Or of the Bible for that matter?