I mean, Del Potro is way better than Murray, but he is still behind him in the rankings. What he needs to be again a Slam material and re-enter Top 4? :unsure:

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 08:41 PM

-No more injuries

-Improving his serve a bit

That should be enough.

SerialKillerToBe

06-17-2012, 08:42 PM

Well his last 4 slam results have been QF, QF, R3, and R4.

Murray's results have been QF, SF, SF, SF

So I'd say he needs to do quite a lot.

Hian-GOAT

06-17-2012, 08:52 PM

Not everybody can have such easy draws.

Ibracadabra

06-17-2012, 08:54 PM

Stay injury free and the rest will take care of itself.

Looner

06-17-2012, 08:58 PM

Avoid posting idiotic gifs.

ossie

06-17-2012, 08:59 PM

stay away from injury obviously. apart from that i feel his game could benefit from better movement, maybe it is just me but he looks bulkier since after his injury. i don't think losing a few pounds will diminish his power too much.

incube

06-17-2012, 09:00 PM

Probably a question of time, not much time.
He can defeat Federer at RG, he battles well against nadal in Spain in Copa Davis...

Jamoz

06-17-2012, 09:01 PM

Movement and stamina could be better.

Filo V.

06-17-2012, 09:01 PM

More time to fully recover his game and confidence. He also needs a Plan B if Plan A of hitting the ball hard down the middle isn't working. His lack of a Plan B is his biggest issue. Movement can improve but he'll never be a super quick guy, he doesn't have the same first step explosion. It's something he'll have to adjust to.

Moozza

06-17-2012, 09:02 PM

He is not better than Murray, not even close. :facepalm:

arm

06-17-2012, 09:02 PM

Well his last 4 slam results have been QF, QF, R3, and R4.

Murray's results have been QF, SF, SF, SF

So I'd say he needs to do quite a lot.

Exactly.

Not everybody can have such easy draws.

That's What happens when you're world number 4, you only have to meet Rafa, Nole.or Roger in the semis. ;)

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 09:04 PM

His movement is fine. With the kind of power he has, he doesn't need to be able to run down every ball like Murray or Ferrer. His movement is very good for a guy his size and with his power.

The keys are no more injuries obviously, and a better serve: he doesn't get enough free points on serve against top players, it's a ridiculously weak shot for a guy his size. If his serve becomes more dominant, the rest will follow.

He should also hit his backhand down the line more often, he seems to hit it crosscourt all the time, it's become a bit predictable.

Oh yeah, and becoming a bit more comfortable at the net wouldn't hurt either, but net game isn't that important in today's game.

Damn i like Delpo, but it's hard to believe that he is only 20 (or 21?) in those photos.

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 09:11 PM

murray fans still have nightmares about delgoatro's forehands in that tournament.

Not to mention Cilic's, who beat him 7-5, 6-2 and 6-2 in R4. That was the biggest trashing I've ever seen someone give Murray.

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 09:18 PM

Stay healthy. That's it.

This in a nutshell.

Staying healthy alone would probably propel him to #4, maybe #3 - considering his age, Federer can have a steep decline at any moment, although it's not looking likely.

But to have higher aspirations, he should also do something about his serve, which is too weak for a guy his size, and be a bit more comfortable around the net.

BauerAlmeida

06-17-2012, 09:20 PM

Stay healthy basically. He is climbing up in the rankings fast, so he'll avoid the best players in early rounds (only reason Murray is having better results).

Technically a better serve would help. He needs more free points.

Nole Rules

06-17-2012, 09:20 PM

Delpo in my mind is as talented as Nole/Nadal/Murray. The big difference is that those 3 are in totally different league physcially. Delpo is just unlucky to have serious injures this early in his career. In order to be great champion in this modren era you have to be a fucking beast physically. Having a great talent isn't enough. These slow hardcourts will kill his weak body unfortunetly. Delpo was borned in the wrong era in my opinion. If there is still fast hardcourts in this era, his power game would look insane.

nole_no1

06-17-2012, 09:22 PM

Stay healthy and improve his mental

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 09:26 PM

Delpo in my mind is as talented as Nole/Nadal/Murray. The big difference is that those 3 are in totally different league physcially. Delpo is just unlucky to have serious injures this early in his career. In order to be great champion in this modren era you have to be a fucking beast physically. These slow hardcourts will kill his weak body unfortunetly. Delpo was borned in the wrong era in my opinion. If there is still fast hardcourts in this era, his power game would look insane.

He's talented in different areas than those three, areas that are not as rewarded in today's game. He's a unique talent as far as power tennis is concerned. But physical talent is far more rewarded in today's game, unfortunately for JMDP.

If he can stay healthy though though, big if of course, he can definitely succeed in these slow courts as well. He's the only one who can penetrate the defenses of Murray/Djokovic/Nadal on a consistent basis even on ultra slow conditions. All will depend on how his body holds up, of course.

Stay healthy and improve his mental

What's wrong with his mentality?

Backhand_Maestro

06-17-2012, 09:31 PM

:yeah:

Sometimes an image is worth more than a thousand words.

That Final was one of the more epics of recent times; that was the first one since Wimby '08 and now we've been gorging on Nadal - Djoka

nole_no1

06-17-2012, 09:36 PM

What's wrong with his mentality?

He chokes too much on crucial moments. Watch his match vs Fed this year at RG even though his shape was not the best .

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 09:37 PM

That Final was one of the more epics of recent times; that was the first one since Wimby '08 and now we've been gorging on Nadal - Djoka

It was a good final overall, but with some mini-chokes. Federer gave up a break when serving for the second set with a double fault and some ill-advised net approaches. Del Potro gave up a break advantage in the third and then gave the set away with two consecutive double faults. Federer went away after losing the fourth set tiebreak.

Backhand_Maestro

06-17-2012, 09:38 PM

It was a good final overall, but with some mini-chokes. Federer gave up a break when serving for the second set with a double fault and some ill-advised net approaches. Del Potro gave up a break advantage in the third and then gave the set away with two consecutive double faults. Federer went away after losing the fourth set tiebreak.

The rain breaks added to it.

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 09:40 PM

He chokes too much on crucial moments. Watch his match vs Fed this year at RG even though his shape was not the best .

His body gave away on him. He lost those three sets easily, wasn't even in a position to choke. I agree that his play on big points isn't as good as it was before his surgery, but I'd hardly say he's been choking matches away.

Delpo in my mind is as talented as Nole/Nadal/Murray. The big difference is that those 3 are in totally different league physcially. Delpo is just unlucky to have serious injures this early in his career. In order to be great champion in this modren era you have to be a fucking beast physically. Having a great talent isn't enough. These slow hardcourts will kill his weak body unfortunetly. Delpo was borned in the wrong era in my opinion. If there is still fast hardcourts in this era, his power game would look insane.

just no.not even close dude.

rocketassist

06-17-2012, 09:44 PM

Perhaps some people can dislike Del Potro for logical reasons, such as his utterly boring, robotic brand of tennis. I wouldn't pay a dime to watch somebody just bash the ball down the middle of court with no real technique and then just come in and bash the first short ball. That's WTA. WTA with male power won a slam.

He makes Noledal look like Rios and Mecir in terms of variety.

Filo V.

06-17-2012, 09:44 PM

I don't consider Del Potro as talented as any of the top four guys.

BauerAlmeida

06-17-2012, 09:45 PM

just no.not even close dude.

Yeah, Murray is more talented than Delpo.

Delpo always says in interviews how he wishes he had Murray's forehand.

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 09:47 PM

Perhaps some people can dislike Del Potro for logical reasons, such as his utterly boring, robotic brand of tennis. I wouldn't pay a dime to watch somebody just bash the ball down the middle of court with no real technique and then just come in and bash the first short ball. That's WTA. WTA with male power won a slam.

He makes Noledal look like Rios and Mecir in terms of variety.

Nothing wrong with disliking his game.

But that doesn't mean you should discredit his talent/achievements.

LastRocket

06-17-2012, 09:48 PM

Yeah, Murray is more talented than Delpo.

Delpo always says in interviews how he wishes he had Murray's forehand.

:superlol:

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 09:51 PM

Yeah, Murray is more talented than Delpo.

Delpo always says in interviews how he wishes he had Murray's forehand.

:superlol:

Can you imagine that? If JMDP had Murray's forehand, he'd have never broken the top 20 :p

Fireballer

06-17-2012, 09:53 PM

Yeah, Murray is more talented than Delpo.

Delpo always says in interviews how he wishes he had Murray's forehand.

so the fact Murray has a better BH makes him more talented?No it's the overall game

Time Violation

06-17-2012, 09:54 PM

He should definitely serve better, with that height and power he should be doing more.

Nole Rules

06-17-2012, 09:54 PM

Yeah, Murray is more talented than Delpo.

Delpo always says in interviews how he wishes he had Murray's forehand.

:haha:

Moozza

06-17-2012, 09:56 PM

Yeah, Murray is more talented than Delpo.

Delpo always says in interviews how he wishes he had Murray's forehand.

more to tennis than a forehand.

arm

06-17-2012, 09:56 PM

:superlol:

Can you imagine that? If JMDP had Murray's forehand, he'd have never broken the top 20 :p

You're basically saying that other than his FH, Murray is very talented. :dance: :p

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 09:59 PM

You're basically saying that other than his FH, Murray is very talented. :dance: :p

Exactamente ;)

And yeah, Murray is obviously very talented, that has never been in question.

He earned it but talent didn't have a lot to do with it. Out of the big hitters he's the least talented of the lot, save maybe Cilic. Tsonga, Soderling and Berdych can all hit lines, all serve/volley better and possess more skill.

Del Potro's benefitted from his defence being superior on slow courts that's allowed him to have the upper hand on his fellow bashers/big hitters.

arm

06-17-2012, 10:03 PM

Exactamente ;)

:D :worship:

And yeah, Murray is obviously very talented, that has never been in question.
Oh people do question his talent. you don't have to go far from this thread. :p

He earned it but talent didn't have a lot to do with it. Out of the big hitters he's the least talented of the lot, save maybe Cilic. Tsonga, Soderling and Berdych can all hit lines, all serve/volley better and possess more skill.

Del Potro's benefitted from his defence being superior on slow courts that's allowed him to have the upper hand on his fellow bashers/big hitters.

Biased much :lol:? It was definitely not his worst match ever.

And I like all those big hitters you mention a lot, but Del Potro is by far the more talented of the lot, it's not even not particularly close. He's a unique talent as far as power tennis is concerned.

His strokes are just more powerful and consistent than theirs. He can afford to play with huge margins because he has enough power to blow opponent off the court without going for lines/corners, the other guys don't.

Del Potro can hit lines, he just doesn't need to except when he faces players who can expose his forward movement (Federer, Murray). The other big hitters failed in the last hurdle because they need to play above their normal level and take risks to beat the big guys; Del Potro doesn't need to take any risks, he can succeed with high % big hitting.

BauerAlmeida

06-17-2012, 10:08 PM

so the fact Murray has a better BH makes him more talented?No it's the overall game

I think Delpo's and Murray backhand are pretty much at the same level. Serve Murray is a bit better and Delpo's forehand in 70 times better. So overall, yeah, I think Del Potro is better.

Murray is a better athlete though, of course. He moves much better. But he is not more talented.

You're basically saying that other than his FH, Murray is very talented. :dance: :p

Of course he is talented, nobody said he wasn't. Just said Delpo is more. That's why he has a slam and Murray doesn't.

Mark Lenders

06-17-2012, 10:08 PM

:D :worship:

Oh people do question his talent. you don't have to go far from this thread. :p

Yup

Jimnik

06-17-2012, 10:09 PM

Biased much :lol:? It was definitely not his worst match ever.
All of Federer's losses are his "worst match ever". And even some of his victories too.

He earned it but talent didn't have a lot to do with it. Out of the big hitters he's the least talented of the lot, save maybe Cilic. Tsonga, Soderling and Berdych can all hit lines, all serve/volley better and possess more skill.

Del Potro's benefitted from his defence being superior on slow courts that's allowed him to have the upper hand on his fellow bashers/big hitters.

Please :rolleyes:

Henry Chinaski

06-17-2012, 11:18 PM

he needs to rediscover his bollocks.

lost confidence since the injury and becomes del pussy in the key moments against the top players.

leng jai

06-17-2012, 11:59 PM

The USO 2009 match wasn't Federer's worst match on a tactical level. Strategically it was though.

Pony just needs to be healthy. He's already close to being a contender now.

Momentum shifted when JMDP got the break at 5-4 in the second, before that it was all Federer.

leng jai

06-18-2012, 12:05 AM

Federer was beating Del Potro with variety and the slice backhand for the first 2 sets. He stopped doing that for whatever reason and tried to outhit Del Potro for the rest of the match (even with his backhand). He let him back in the match with arrogance (IMO) and once Del Potro capitalized it was all over.

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 12:09 AM

There's certainly an element of truth to that. Federer allowed Juan to get the break back in the second set by not applying the patterns that had brought him so much success before, and always do really: Federer's variety make him a nightmare matchup for JMDP.

But that doesn't take credit away from JMDP; a lesser player would not have seized the opportunity and the momentum the way he did. I wouldn't call it arrogance, he probably just felt more comfortable than he should, and who could blame him given that he was absolutely dominating proceedings?

Topspindoctor

06-18-2012, 12:14 AM

He needs to acquire some talent and stop being a WTA ballbasher.

leng jai

06-18-2012, 12:17 AM

There's certainly an element of truth to that. Federer allowed Juan to get the break back in the second set by not applying the patterns that had brought him so much success before, and always do really: Federer's variety make him a nightmare matchup for JMDP.

But that doesn't take credit away from JMDP; a lesser player would not have seized the opportunity and the momentum the way he did. I wouldn't call it arrogance, he probably just felt more comfortable than he should, and who could blame him given that he was absolutely dominating proceedings?

He thought he had the match in the bag and stopped thinking as much about the match. Thats arrogance in my book. Pony deserved the win for sure, but that doesn't change the fact it was a tactically inept much from Federer.

He needs to acquire some talent and stop being a WTA ballbasher.

The fact you think talent can be "acquired" just says it all really.

Topspindoctor

06-18-2012, 12:20 AM

The fact you think talent can be "acquired" just says it all really.

That was sarcasm, are you seriously that dumb?

The real answer: He can't do anything. He's a ballbasher who can fluke a title here and there when he gets hot, but in the end he's too erratic and his game has too many weaknesses to beat the big 3. The end.

BauerAlmeida

06-18-2012, 12:23 AM

That was sarcasm, are you seriously that dumb?

The real answer: He can't do anything. He's a ballbasher who can fluke a title here and there when he gets hot, but in the end he's too erratic and his game has too many weaknesses to beat the big 3. The end.

Yet, the year before his injury he was in a two-wining streak against Federer and in a three winning-streak against Nadal (didn't play against Nole). He already showed he can defeat the best players in the world, the question is what he needs to do it again.

leng jai

06-18-2012, 12:23 AM

I always take your posts seriously. It's the only way to operate.

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 12:28 AM

He thought he had the match in the bag and stopped thinking as much about the match. Thats arrogance in my book. Pony deserved the win for sure, but that doesn't change the fact it was a tactically inept much from Federer.

True, but look at the circumstances. He was cruising vs a 20yo first time Slam finalist who is a great matchup for him. It's hard to call him arrogant for having a false sense of security at the moment.

Didn't you think Federer had the match in the bag? Hell, even I as a huge JMDP fan saw no way back for him before he broke Federer at 5-4.

He was overconfident for sure, especially given the scare JMDP had given him months earlier at the French, but it's kind of understandable given the circumstances.

Topspindoctor

06-18-2012, 12:30 AM

Yet, the year before his injury he was in a two-wining streak against Federer and in a three winning-streak against Nadal (didn't play against Nole). He already showed he can defeat the best players in the world, the question is what he needs to do it again.

That doesn't mean anything.

He's had plenty of time to get back to the top after his comeback and so far he's proven that the form he had in late 2009 was impossible to sustain for years. Forget Federer/Nadal at this point. He should be trying to surpass Murray at least (who I dislike, but I still think he's a better player than Delpo)

Don't get me wrong, I think he deserved to be in top 10. But I am not buying into his hype as a threat to #1 or a multi slam winner.

leng jai

06-18-2012, 12:30 AM

The arrogance actually came after the break back. At the start it could have been seen as complacency but after he continually tried to outhit Del Potro from the back of the court instead of reverting back to the original play I can't see that as anything but Federer being obstinate/arrogant.

Fireballer

06-18-2012, 12:33 AM

Delpo is way overrated here.A solid player but a future number 1 and a multiple Slam winner?Please guys

Looner

06-18-2012, 12:34 AM

Federer has always been stubborn and that match did not reveal anything new about his character. What it did reveal was that Delboy could take advantage of this trait of Federer's.

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 12:35 AM

The arrogance actually came after the break back. At the start it could have been seen as complacency but after he continually tried to outhit Del Potro from the back of the court instead of reverting back to the original play I can't see that as anything but Federer being obstinate/arrogant.

That can be explained by the shift in momentum, with Del Potro galvanized and Federer a bit shaken and unable to think clearly/execute.

It's hard to conceive that someone as experience as Federer would willingly let the match turn into a baseline power contest, a kind of game where pretty much no one on tour can beat JMDP.

It's true that Federer should have reverted back to his slice & dice strategy and not let Del Potro build momemtum and confidence, but arrogance isn't the explanation imo. It's hard to conceive Federer willingly jeopardizing his chances at another Slam title.

leng jai

06-18-2012, 12:41 AM

Federer didn't think someone could outhit from the back of the court. By the time he realised it was going to happen the match was gone. That's how I see it.

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 12:43 AM

Federer has always been stubborn and that match did not reveal anything new about his character. What it did reveal was that Delboy could take advantage of this trait of Federer's.

True, but he actually was never that stubborn while playing JMDP. Wasn't the Del Potro match in Madrid 2009 the one where he kept drop shotting point after point? He always employed tremendous variety against Juan, probably because he respect him a lot as an opponent; after all, it was Federer who got JMDP his first tour wildcard (Basel 2006) telling the organizers he was a great talent :p

Federer didn't think someone could outhit from the back of the court. By the time he realised it was going to happen the match was gone. That's how I see it.

This is a possible explanation. I don't know exactly what Fed was thinking but this could explain the events of that match. If so, it was very ill-advised from Federer, of course.

Looner

06-18-2012, 12:43 AM

Fed's problem was similar to his problem against RN - he was stubborn and refused to change after his weakness was exposed. Against RN it was the weak BH and against Delboy it was his inability to overpower him. I think there are a lot of similarities in his behaviour in both match-ups that show Federer's stubbornness and his (sometimes damaging) level of self-belief.

True, but he actually was never that stubborn while playing JMDP. Wasn't the Del Potro match in Madrid 2009 the one where he kept drop shotting point after point? He always employed tremendous variety against Juan, probably because he respect him a lot as an opponent; after all, it was Federer who got JMDP his first tour wildcard (Basel 2006) telling the organizers he was a great talent.

Yeah, you are right about that match in Madrid. HOWEVER, Federer was chasing the FO then and he was set on doing EVERYTHING he could to win it. Hence, he changed it up for RG and Madrid.

But he was stubborn in admitting he could be outdone on his favourite fast court and I think that cost him. I have seen plenty of matches where he starts out strong and plays correctly (especially against RN in slams - see my first point) and then mugs it up. The most recent example is the change in strategy in the 2nd set of this year's AO - inexplicable.

Having said that I should admit I never saw the match due to an internet outage but have watched parts and can easily imagine how it went.

leng jai

06-18-2012, 12:49 AM

The difference is that against Nadal he can't really overcome the weakness. It's a technical thing that there's no way around. Against Del Potro there is a clear cut solution which he never abandoned. Just look at their matches ever since and it's easy to see Federer knows how to beat him and it's not via ball bashing.

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 12:51 AM

Fed's problem was similar to his problem against RN - he was stubborn and refused to change after his weakness was exposed. Against RN it was the weak BH and against Delboy it was his inability to overpower him. I think there are a lot of similarities in his behaviour in both match-ups that show Federer's stubbornness and his (sometimes damaging) level of self-belief.

That self-belief might have undone him on a few occasions, but he'd never have been so successful if he didn't believe in himself as much either.

Yeah, you are right about that match in Madrid. HOWEVER, Federer was chasing the FO then and he was set on doing EVERYTHING he could to win it. Hence, he changed it up for RG and Madrid.

But he was stubborn in admitting he could be outdone on his favourite fast court and I think that cost him. I have seen plenty of matches where he starts out strong and plays correctly (especially against RN in slams - see my first point) and then mugs it up. The most recent example is the change in strategy in the 2nd set of this year's AO - inexplicable.

Having said that I should admit I never saw the match due to an internet outage but have watched parts and can easily imagine how it went.

Eh Internet outage? Couldn't you have watched it on TV, namely Eurosport?

Agree with your analysis. As for the final, it was basically about a few big points that changed momentum and decided the outcome. Federer could have won, but he also could have lost their FO semi a few months earlier imo.

Topspindoctor

06-18-2012, 12:53 AM

If he won their RG match, I still don't see why Del Potrotards are thinking he'd win RG... He had Soderling in the final, both first time slam finalists. It would be 50/50 at best. Soderling wouldn't choke against Del Potro the way he did against Olderer.

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 12:54 AM

The difference is that against Nadal he can't really overcome the weakness. It's a technical thing that there's no way around. Against Del Potro there is a clear cut solution which he never abandoned. Just look at their matches ever since and it's easy to see Federer knows how to beat him and it's not via ball bashing.

Well, let's also keep in mind that Del Potro hasn't reached the same heights as pre-wrist surgery yet.

But yeah, Federer is a terrible matchup for him when he puts his variety into play. He can exploit JMDP's forward movement like no other.

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 12:57 AM

If he won their RG match, I still don't see why Del Potrotards are thinking he'd win RG... He had Soderling in the final, both first time slam finalists. It would be 50/50 at best. Soderling wouldn't choke against Del Potro the way he did against Olderer.

Del Potro has a huge matchup advantage over Soderling. He routined him twice when Robin was playing the best tennis of his career and was #4 and JMDP had just come back from injury for a few months - two straight set wins, not even a tiebreak

It's hard to conceive him losing to Soderling while playing the best tennis of his career. It's a huge mismatch. I was there when they played in Estoril 2011, Del Potro easily overpowers Soderling on slow surfaces.

Not saying it's impossible he'd have lost, of course it isn't, just hard to imagine it given the dynamics of their matchup.

Looner

06-18-2012, 01:03 AM

That self-belief might have undone him on a few occasions, but he'd never have been so successful if he didn't believe in himself as much either.

Eh Internet outage? Couldn't you have watched it on TV, namely Eurosport?

Agree with your analysis. As for the final, it was basically about a few big points that changed momentum and decided the outcome. Federer could have won, but he also could have lost their FO semi a few months earlier imo.

Agree about the self-belief. I should have said sometimes damaging because in 95% of cases it is what saves his matches.

As for the internet problem, I have been a student for the past 4 years and as any modern student will tell you, TV is sort of an extra, especially when you're moving every 6 months. I've had a TV (except home) only for 6 months in the past 4 years. That doesn't stop me from watching tennis, as more often than not the matches I want to see are not broadcasted anyway.

Del Potro has a huge matchup advantage over Soderling. He routined him twice when Robin was playing the best tennis of his career and was #4 and JMDP had just come back from injury for a few months - two straight set wins, not even a tiebreak

It's hard to conceive him losing to Soderling while playing the best tennis of his career. It's a huge mismatch. I was there when they played in Estoril 2011, Del Potro easily overpowers Soderling on slow surfaces.

I agree. I remember at WTF where Soderling was playing quite well and Del Potro still won. I think Del Potro would stand a much better chance with fairer scheduling, as he had to play a rather late one there and then did not have enough time to recover.

Moreover, if the didn't choke against Roger in his first slam final, no way was he choking against Soderling. Plus I think he was playing better than Soderling and would have won relatively easily - something like Djokovic vs Tsonga at the AO 2008.

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 01:10 AM

Agree about the self-belief. I should have said sometimes damaging because in 95% of cases it is what saves his matches.

As for the internet problem, I have been a student for the past 4 years and as any modern student will tell you, TV is sort of an extra, especially when you're moving every 6 months. I've had a TV (except home) only for 6 months in the past 4 years. That doesn't stop me from watching tennis, as more often than not the matches I want to see are not broadcasted anyway.

Fair enough. I'm a uni student too, but still live at home. We have no in-campus housing here in Portugal.

I agree. I remember at WTF where Soderling was playing quite well and Del Potro still won. I think Del Potro would stand a much better chance with fairer scheduling, as he had to play a rather late one there and then did not have enough time to recover.

Moreover, if the didn't choke against Roger in his first slam final, no way was he choking against Soderling. Plus I think he was playing better than Soderling and would have won relatively easily - something like Djokovic vs Tsonga at the AO 2008.

Nah, Djokovic vs Tsonga was a very close final, with Jo one points away from taking it to 5. Del Potro vs Soderling at FO 2009 would have probably been 3 sets, no tiebreaks. If you watched their Estoril and Miami matches in 2011 with Soderling #4 and Del Potro just returning, you know what a huge mismatch it is on slow surfaces. Del Potro strokes are more powerful and consistent and he moves better, and that makes all the difference in that matchup.

WTF 2009 was a great match, the indoor conditions benifited Robin who is the better indoor player imo but he still couldn't beat Del Potro. A shame since he had a better shot vs Davydenko in the final.

Topspindoctor

06-18-2012, 01:12 AM

Del Potro has a huge matchup advantage over Soderling. He routined him twice when Robin was playing the best tennis of his career and was #4 and JMDP had just come back from injury for a few months - two straight set wins, not even a tiebreak

It's hard to conceive him losing to Soderling while playing the best tennis of his career. It's a huge mismatch. I was there when they played in Estoril 2011, Del Potro easily overpowers Soderling on slow surfaces.

Not saying it's impossible he'd have lost, of course it isn't, just hard to imagine it given the dynamics of their matchup.

You fail to remember that Soderling beat NADAL in the tournament, the greatest upset of the open era. He was riding a huge confidence wave in that tournament - he would take it to Delpo IMO. It's his lack of belief against an experienced opponent that caused his loss. Forget match up issues. For two first time slam finalists, the match is 90% mental.

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 01:15 AM

You fail to remember that Soderling beat NADAL in the tournament, the greatest upset of the open era. He was riding a huge confidence wave in that tournament - he would take it to Delpo IMO. It's his lack of belief against an experienced opponent that caused his loss. Forget match up issues. For two first time slam finalists, the match is 90% mental.

True, but his form went down after beating Nadal. He played an exceptional match against Davydenko, but was then a bit fortunate to eek past Gonzalez, his form went down to a more normal level.

And if Del Potro could hold his own mentally against Federer in his first Slam final, what makes you think he wouldn't against Soderling?

And matchups are everything in tennis. It is why Berdych lost to a Del Potro with a bad knee/less than optimal movement in RG this year for instance, despite being in much better form. Del Potro is a nightmare matchup for big hitters on slow surfaces.

Topspindoctor

06-18-2012, 01:25 AM

True, but his form went down after beating Nadal. He played an exceptional match against Davydenko, but was then a bit fortunate to eek past Gonzalez, his form went down to a more normal level.

And if Del Potro could hold his own mentally against Federer in his first Slam final, what makes you think he wouldn't against Soderling?

And matchups are everything in tennis. It is why Berdych lost to a Del Potro with a bad knee/less than optimal movement in RG this year for instance, despite being in much better form. Del Potro is a nightmare matchup for big hitters on slow surfaces.

I am not saying he wouldn't win, I am just saying Delpo wouldn't be a lock for the title like some seem to think. Soderling would have swung freely in the final against non-Federer opponent, he wouldn't be choking and would give himself chances. Soderling is no slouch on clay, either. Nadal beat him 6-0 6-1 and lost to him in RG that year. Beating Federer on clay is nowhere near as impressive as beating Nadal on clay, especially in Paris.

lucyfur

06-18-2012, 01:31 AM

If Delpo had won that semi he too would have been high on confidence from beating Fed who he never beat before regardless of surface, the fact that he didn't fold at his 1st slam at the USO. and Robin had two chances at RG and got straight setted both times seems to me Delpo would have won. I know some of you don't like him but please try and be objective.

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 01:31 AM

I am not saying he wouldn't win, I am just saying Delpo wouldn't be a lock for the title like some seem to think. Soderling would have swung freely in the final against non-Federer opponent, he wouldn't be choking and would give himself chances. Soderling is no slouch on clay, either. Nadal beat him 6-0 6-1 and lost to him in RG that year. Beating Federer on clay is nowhere near as impressive as beating Nadal on clay, especially in Paris.

That's fair enough. Delpo wouldn't have been a lock, but he'd have been the huge favorite for sure.

Having watched their matches over the years, it's hard for me to picture a scenario where Soderling would emerge victorious, but I guess it'd be possible if he hit the ball as well as he did against Nadal and Davydenko. Problem is that vs Delpo his bullets are returned with even more power.

Soderling could have won, but would have taken a very special performance imo. He'd have to swing freely and not miss much for sure. The key would be to finish points early/avoid long rallies where he will get inevitably overpowered.

Fireballer

06-18-2012, 01:33 AM

Lenders hypng Delpo like he is the next Federer or something

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 01:36 AM

Lenders hypng Delpo like he is the next Federer or something

Yes, that's exactly I'm doing. All my posts on this thread are predicting domination for the next decade and at least 20 Slams :p

Topspindoctor

06-18-2012, 01:40 AM

Yes, that's exactly I'm doing. All my posts on this thread are predicting domination for the next decade and at least 20 Slams :p

You have to be fair, you are overrating him quite a bit :shrug:

Delpo's game is massive when he's "in the zone". But tennis is a game of consistency not several showings of god mode. Federer and Nadal have won at least one slam in 8 consecutive years, for example. I find that far more impressive than someone like DelPo hitting people off court for one tournament and then being mediocre for the next couple of years :shrug:

Mark Lenders

06-18-2012, 01:47 AM

You have to be fair, you are overrating him quite a bit :shrug:

Delpo's game is massive when he's "in the zone". But tennis is a game of consistency not several showings of god mode. Federer and Nadal have won at least one slam in 8 consecutive years, for example. I find that far more impressive than someone like DelPo hitting people off court for one tournament and then being mediocre for the next couple of years :shrug:

How exactly am I overrating him? All I'm saying is that he can win another Slam and be ranked in the top 3/4 if he can stay injury free. I'm not predicting that he'll be the next Federer or Nadal or dominate tennis for years like Sapoed does with Murray.

I never said he was more impressive than Federer or Nadal. You're underrating Del Potro, though: he's not the kind of player who gets hot for one tournament and then cools off. There's a reason he had the highest point tally for a #5 ever in 2009. He plays high % big hitting.

The reason he hasn't been a contender since 2009 is his wrist injury and the time it is taking to make a full comeback. Wrist injuries are the worst in tennis, it affects your strokes, your serve... after having surgery, players will take time to regain their confidence when hitting their strokes. He's doing far better than what could reasonably expected.

I for one never expected him to be back to the top 10 when he had surgery, let alone in a year.

lucyfur

06-18-2012, 02:03 AM

You have to be fair, you are overrating him quite a bit :shrug:

Delpo's game is massive when he's "in the zone". But tennis is a game of consistency not several showings of god mode. Federer and Nadal have won at least one slam in 8 consecutive years, for example. I find that far more impressive than someone like DelPo hitting people off court for one tournament and then being mediocre for the next couple of years :shrug:

So far this year he's had 4qtrs, 2 semis, 1final and 2 titles. That's more consistent than most of the top ten so far. If that's mediocre then what has the rest of the tour been?:rolleyes:

Del GOATro

06-18-2012, 03:18 AM

All he needs is to be healthy. A better serve would also be nice but remaining injury free is the key.

Mountaindewslave

06-18-2012, 04:28 AM

his fitness is his big problem now when the match gets stretched out, just look at him VS. Federer at Roland Garros. that and his mentality has never been the same since the horrible injury despite glimpses of promise

Busterovic

06-18-2012, 04:32 AM

- Fitness instructor, new physio. Definitely needs to be in better shape than he's in.

- I know you can't blame the coach for injuries but honestly Delpo is pretty tactically terrible. I remember him v. Simon @ USO last year. Just brainless ball bashing. Then v. Fed at RG. He got hurt but with the way he can hit he could drill fed off the court but he tries to get too creative.

- His serve should be a little bit better.

- He could improve a little at the net.

ahadabans

06-18-2012, 07:02 AM

his fitness is his big problem now when the match gets stretched out, just look at him VS. Federer at Roland Garros. that and his mentality has never been the same since the horrible injury despite glimpses of promise

This.

He may never get back to 2009 Del Potro. It's unfortunate really because he really could have changed the dynamic at the top. But he's young so we'll see.

EddieNero

06-18-2012, 07:12 AM

A healthy body and some talent would be helpful.

arm

06-18-2012, 08:11 AM

Yet, the year before his injury he was in a two-wining streak against Federer and in a three winning-streak against Nadal (didn't play against Nole). He already showed he can defeat the best players in the world, the question is what he needs to do it again.

A lot of players can beat the best players in world. Very few can do it consistently. And until proven otherwise, Delpo can't.

I don't think USO was a fluke, regardless of Roger chocking or not, beating Rafa and Roger in a slams semi and final can never be a fluke. I do think he is very overrated over here and I doubt he can consistently challenge the top3 even top4 like some.seem to believe.

Hian-GOAT

06-18-2012, 11:19 AM

He is not better than Murray, not even close. :facepalm:

Slam > No Slam.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll36/Bigsteve87/Gifs/ByeBitch.gif

Hian-GOAT

06-18-2012, 11:20 AM

Avoid posting idiotic gifs.

You are such a troll that you say something about me on DelPotro :spit:

Bitch, bye.

BauerAlmeida

06-18-2012, 12:30 PM

A lot of players can beat the best players in world.

Well tell me how many players have defeated 5 times in a year Djoko/Fed/Rafa in major events (M1000, GS, TMC).

arm

06-18-2012, 02:20 PM

Well tell me how many players have defeated 5 times in a year Djoko/Fed/Rafa in major events (M1000, GS, TMC).

Yeah, only you're giving too much importance to those victories. Let's see. 3 of those 5 were vs Rafa on HARD COURTS, in a year where things didn't go very well for Rafa.

- Miami, beat Rafa in QF and then lost to Murray in the semi;
- Canada, beat Rafa in QF and lost to Murray yet again in the final.

These two alone are interesting, given that he ended up losing to a less talented (according to some) Murray.

- USO, beat Rafa in 5 sets. Might be just me, but I don't find this that impressive. Sure it's still beating Rafa in a slam, but it's USO :p

Ok, 2 great victories over Roger. True. And 3 HC victories over Rafa.

Fedfanforever

06-19-2012, 12:29 PM

- USO, beat Rafa in 5 sets. Might be just me, but I don't find this that impressive. Sure it's still beating Rafa in a slam, but it's USO :p

Delpo beat Rafa 6-2 6-2 6-2 at the US Open.

arm

06-19-2012, 12:43 PM

[QUOTE=Fedfanforever;12116143]Delpo beat Rafa 6-2 6-2 6-2 at the US Open.[/QUOTE
I really thought it had been a 5 setter. :confused: probably got confused with the final. I stand corrected! :)

Hian-GOAT

06-19-2012, 12:44 PM

My threads :worship:

leng jai

06-19-2012, 12:44 PM

Your thoughts are clouded by the fact you think Del Pony is overrated :)