CoE plans to allow RMT(gold sellers) during the live game

Beyond the over the top Buy 2 King crowdfunding and the 3 month no-wipe headstart, it appears that they also plan to allow RMT after launch. Here is a link to the discussion on their official forums. If this is out of date or there is a clarification please post it in this thread.

Caspian - Today at 9:30 PM When it comes to selling in-game items in a real-world market we effectively have two choices. We can spend countless hours and resources on trying to stop and track people making money off their in-game items, or we can accept that their time has value to them. If people have a lot of time, but little money, want to use that as a way to create in-game items which they then sell to other players who have disposable income but less free-time, we view that as a win-win.

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

I can see why people would get annoyed by this, yet in reality we're always playing in such an environment anyway, no company has actually stopped this stuff from happening. AT most their defensive measures just offer a false sense of security.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

When you can buy in game items for real money, i can see it already.'ye olde weapon shoppe' $1 Iron dagger$5 steel dagger$20 steel longsword$400 vorpal longsword of flames.

etc.no option to use in game currency, which could easily end up being region locked as each kingdom has its own currency. If the option is there for crafters to either sell things for the local currency, which is of limited value due to regional variations, or sell things for real money, which is valid pretty much everywhere in game, then what are you going to do? the end result is likely to be that real currency is the defacto currency of the game, with in game currency limited to purely NPC vendors. O.o

Tracking down RMT takes a lot of work including 24/7 investigators and expensive custom analytics. Companies like Blizzard have full logging with Splunk and huge Hadoop server farms running for custom analytics and tracking of RMT. It costs a LOT of money both in tech and staff to do it effectively.

They decided to embrace it instead and be open about it beforhand, because they probably wouldnt be able to fight RMT effectively anyways with limited staff and budget.

Now I still remain skeptical of this game ever launching period... but thats a different story.

I hope people are ready to spend real money for anything in the game. I told everyone this game is going to end up a money sink just look at how they are doing their player life deal. This game will quickly become something that everyone forgotten.

Tracking down RMT takes a lot of work including 24/7 investigators and expensive custom analytics. Companies like Blizzard have full logging with Splunk and huge Hadoop server farms running for custom analytics and tracking of RMT. It costs a LOT of money both in tech and staff to do it effectively.

They decided to embrace it instead and be open about it beforhand, because they probably wouldnt be able to fight RMT effectively anyways with limited staff and budget.

Now I still remain skeptical of this game ever launching period... but thats a different story.

I agree that it is a smart approach which will save resources that can go into game development instead. But what will it do to the community? I don't wouldn't want to have my chat spammed with gold-sellers. While the policy is diplomatically stated to support people with little money and lots of free time, the majority will be gold-farmers I dare suspect. So community, followed by economy - followed by - developers having to put resources into fixing a broken system ? But who knows, maybe we will be proven wrong and it really works out as simple win-win for all as they write.

Tracking down RMT takes a lot of work including 24/7 investigators and expensive custom analytics. Companies like Blizzard have full logging with Splunk and huge Hadoop server farms running for custom analytics and tracking of RMT. It costs a LOT of money both in tech and staff to do it effectively.

They decided to embrace it instead and be open about it beforhand, because they probably wouldnt be able to fight RMT effectively anyways with limited staff and budget.

Now I still remain skeptical of this game ever launching period... but thats a different story.

I agree that it is a smart approach which will save resources that can go into game development instead. But what will it do to the community? I don't wouldn't want to have my chat spammed with gold-sellers. While the policy is diplomatically stated to support people with little money and lots of free time, the majority will be gold-farmers I dare suspect. So community, followed by economy - followed by - developers having to put resources into fixing a broken system ? But who knows, maybe we will be proven wrong and it really works out as simple win-win for all as they write.

It would put gold sellers out of business, as there would be no demand for actual gold, instead, the 'gold sellers' will have sweat shops churning out in game items, to be sold via their wholly legitimate retail outlets, no global market after all, instead if there is any kind of central hub, RMT companies will have a shop there selling their goods for real money, right alongside their resource shop that also sells crafting resources, for real money, but selling actual gold? unless its a crafting resource, why would they even bother doing that?

I hope people are ready to spend real money for anything in the game. I told everyone this game is going to end up a money sink just look at how they are doing their player life deal. This game will quickly become something that everyone forgotten.

I wont be surprised at all if this turns our worse than Allods Online cash shop...lolz

Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

I can see why people would get annoyed by this, yet in reality we're always playing in such an environment anyway, no company has actually stopped this stuff from happening. AT most their defensive measures just offer a false sense of security.

True to an extent, but the difference is that in most (good) MMOs, where RMT is not allowed, it is only the few that engage in such practices, and when they are caught it (generally) results in a ban; i.e. the 'level playing field' is set at a level without RMT.

By the Devs saying that RMT is not only OK, but actually encouraging it, it means that RMT gets included in the 'level playing field'; i.e. if you don't engage in RMT you will get left behind. Also, they had better plan on putting (a lot) of reasources towards detecting and removing Bots, because it sounds like CoE is going to be invested with them.

This is like when you see some screaming kid in the candy store and the parent just buys the kid whatever he is crying about to shut him up. It seems like a good idea in the short term until 15 years later when you are going to the police station to bail the kid out of jail and take him to rehab.

Taking the easy and lazy way out rarely works out well in the long run. I wonder if a game like WoW would have had the long term success it has had if they just threw up their hands and gave up on trying to stop RMT and bots in their game. My guess is no. Western gamers despise pay to win so to just preemptively surrender on that is a terrible sign imo. This project never seemed very promising to me anyway and every time I read something about it, I'm glad I passed on backing it.

For someone who does not know how much time effort money etc is being wasted on *catching* and determining if one has been rmt'ing (considering that every banned person is going to contact support as well) i can see how this would be a turnoff but i honestly applaud them for doing this.

I can see why people would get annoyed by this, yet in reality we're always playing in such an environment anyway, no company has actually stopped this stuff from happening. AT most their defensive measures just offer a false sense of security.

That is not true. I played Project 1999, and they ban every one linked to RMT, but yeah for main stream games all of them have it.

I've never been a fan of the "time = money" rationalization for RMT simply because it ignores the fundamentals of playing games without external shortcuts or cheats. Besides, RMT is not about equalizing enjoyment - that's just a bullshit argument. RMT is about faking achievements that you didn't earn. If it really was just about enjoyment then you wouldn't give a shit about possessing rare items or titles that those who play a lot can get and you'd be enjoying what your limited time can get you. It's envy relief and nothing else.

Having said that, what COE is proposing is orders of magnitude more honest and straightforward than the typical "Our official company RMT is cool but any other RMT is not" that has become the norm: it's either all horseshit that compromises a game's integrity or it's not.

But hey, it's your game time. If you want to play the kind of game where your game play is undermined by cash, go for it and be part of the mildly amused casual gaming mainstream. I'm going to hold out for a different kind of game... but that's just me.

“That's how the madness of the world tries to colonize you: from the outside in, forcing you to live in its reality.” ― Jeff VanderMeer, Annihilation

I've never been a fan of the "time = money" rationalization for RMT simply because it ignores the fundamentals of playing games without external shortcuts or cheats. Besides, RMT is not about equalizing enjoyment - that's just a bullshit argument. RMT is about faking achievements that you didn't earn. If it really was just about enjoyment then you wouldn't give a shit about possessing rare items or titles that those who play a lot can get and you'd be enjoying what your limited time can get you. It's envy relief and nothing else.

Having said that, what COE is proposing is orders of magnitude more honest and straightforward than the typical "Our official company RMT is cool but any other RMT is not" that has become the norm: it's either all horseshit that compromises a game's integrity or it's not.

But hey, it's your game time. If you want to play the kind of game where your game play is undermined by cash, go for it and be part of the mildly amused casual gaming mainstream. I'm going to hold out for a different kind of game... but that's just me.

Is that why when i use to play Revelation online just a few days ago, a level 59 came up to me and asked a lvl 20 how to get to the dungeons hahahahahaha. Yeah RMT are bad, and make games horrid which is why I end up leaving all MMOS, cause I can only take so much of the RMT till it pissed me off and I leave.

I hope CoE isn't based around competition over limited resources or something. Such competitions suddenly become a lot less appealing to the majority of its niche playerbase if it doesn't seem like the competition is fair. ....I think? Though most whales (which is what CoE needs the most for funding, assuming it takes a whale-hunting approach to business) don't mind.

I've never been a fan of the "time = money" rationalization for RMT simply because it ignores the fundamentals of playing games without external shortcuts or cheats. Besides, RMT is not about equalizing enjoyment - that's just a bullshit argument. RMT is about faking achievements that you didn't earn. If it really was just about enjoyment then you wouldn't give a shit about possessing rare items or titles that those who play a lot can get and you'd be enjoying what your limited time can get you. It's envy relief and nothing else.

Having said that, what COE is proposing is orders of magnitude more honest and straightforward than the typical "Our official company RMT is cool but any other RMT is not" that has become the norm: it's either all horseshit that compromises a game's integrity or it's not.

But hey, it's your game time. If you want to play the kind of game where your game play is undermined by cash, go for it and be part of the mildly amused casual gaming mainstream. I'm going to hold out for a different kind of game... but that's just me.

But there is no denying that people with a lot of money and little time were not a good fit for traditional MMORPGs

Gen1 MMORPGd boiled down to one thing = time investment

The more you played the more you progressed, and early games like EQ1 were all about extreme time investment, as the pure subscription model was designed to keep people subbed for as long as possible. The primary mechanic was to make everything take a long time to accomplish.

Fast forward 15 years, the playerbase grew up have jobs, families and less free time - but more money.

The obvious thing to do is let players use money to progress faster as time is the #1 constraint, not money.

It's not a few people that do this. No one who doesn't have their head up their butts knows it. We've had threads here before talking about people cheating and most here have done it. A multimillion dollar industry doesn't just pop up because a few people here or there aren't doing it.

If a game has free trading RMT is going to happen because most mmo gamers are cheaters. There are very few games without a noticable RMT problem. LotRO is one of the few I can think of and that's mostly because very little of value can be traded.

Most of the cheaters don't care or try and justify it like the guy who always posts about anti-bot software and getting banned from albion for buying gold.

How many people in this thread have purchased gold/rmt or know a guildie or friend who did and didn't report them? Be honest with yourselves and don't try and make any excuses. Start taking responsibility and accountability for our own problem. If players didn't buy gold devs wouldn't have to fight it.