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“I actually wish we were having more intense debates about these things,” Gates said.

The interviewer suggested that debate has intensified “thanks” to Snowden, and asked Gates to weigh in on the hero-or-traitor debate.

“I think he broke the law, so I certainly wouldn’t characterize him as a hero,” Gates said. “If he wanted to raise the issues and stay in the country and engage in civil disobedience or something of that kind, or if he had been careful in terms of what he had released, then it would fit more of the model of ‘OK, I’m really trying to improve things.’ You won’t find much admiration from me.”

The billionaire philanthropist and tech magnate said that some details about government surveillance are best left secret.

“The government has such ability to do these things. There has to be a debate,” Gates said. “But the specific techniques they use become unavailable if they’re discussed in detail. So the debate needs to be about the general notion of under what circumstances should they be allowed to do things.”

Gates acknowledged that concerns about how the government uses surveillance “aren’t easy questions” but said advocates who say information should be out there are “not being very articulate right now.”

In the wide-ranging interview, Gates answered questions on everything from his foundation’s work to eradicate polio, to climate change, to HealthCare.gov, to whether he believes in God.