What makes no sense to you in regards to my logical argument? We can have a discussion and I can clarify some things. It is often the case that I am unable to present myself coherently the first time around since I am unaware of any objections from others that would indicate my arguments as being incoherent. That is why we would need to have a discussion to clear things up.

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And that sentiment does what, exactly, to provide any evidence to your point? Oh, right, it's just further Bluster that has nothing to do with anything.

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You're the one who brought up the point in the first place. It has no relevance whatsoever in terms of being any evidence for my theory. You talked about how I was ignoring the fact that depressed people do not have the working brain physiology to make them feel positive emotions. Just because depressed people can't make themselves feel positive emotions is not any counter evidence for my theory and neither is it any evidence for my theory.

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What makes no sense to you in regards to my logical argument? We can have a discussion and I can clarify some things. It is often the case that I am unable to present myself coherently the first time around since I am unaware of any objections from others that would indicate my arguments as being incoherent. That is why we would need to have a discussion to clear things up.

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I debated with myself how best to reply since you appear to be deaf to the other posters who have clearly pointed out the errors you have made
So I have gone back to your original post and inserted my thoughts into your post
This I hope will enable you to read what you have written followed immediately by my comment
Can we have a discussion about your ???? whatever it is, since theory, idea, thought bubble, are ruled out? NO
I over ruled Huey Dewey and Louie to make this reply but it came at the cost of my promising no more
You may have a out IF IF IF you put forward a COMPELLING case why this ??? should be taken seriously

Since our positive emotions allow us to experience the good qualities of life while our negative emotions allow us to experience the bad qualities of life, then our positive emotions are literally a force of goodness flowing through us while our negative emotions are literally a force of badness flowing through us1/ NO emotions are NOT a force let alone a literal force
Affirmative statements made with no evidence

It's a way, no different than a positive or negative charge2/ Not even close to being similar

Therefore, all famous artists and composers who have used their depression and misery as an inspiration for their art weren't living any sort of good life at all3/ A stupid assertion without any evidence

They did not have the force of light (i.e. goodness) flowing through them4/ I have no idea how the force of light flows through anybody and you have made another assertion with no supporting evidence

In a purely naturalistic universe, it would be the force of goodness5/ The Universe is wholly naturalistic

But in a spiritual universe, it would be the light of god6/ Mention of god puts YOU in the realm of PREACHING ideas not putting forward anything forward for disscussion

This means that the only true way to live one's life and be an artist is through one's positive emotions as they are the only things that can allow us to experience the good qualities of life7/ Preaching

These famous and genius miserable artists have mistakenly thought that they were experiencing the good qualities of life through inspiring others and whatnot through their art when this couldn't be any further from the truth8/ Making diagnosis without examination and drawing stupid conclusion

Now, I wish to be a composer. This means that I must fully recover from any emotional trauma and misery in my life before I can finally embrace and celebrate the good qualities of my life and composing8/ Seems like you like / want (via praying?) to be a composer by asking God to cure you of emotional trauma and making you one. Don't see anything in there about YOU putting in some effort to learn anything

Without the light in my life, then my life can only be darkness or just simply blank (neither light nor dark)9/ I take the light to be god

It's no way to live or be an artist. Our positive emotions are the only things that can make our lives worth living in a good way10/ Really???

Let me actually break it down for you:11/ I would say don't bother but I know you will

It is an established fact12/ Bold statement

that our emotions are everything to our lives13/ Bold assertion but no evidence or even reference backup

Without emotions, then nothing could matter to us14/ See 13/

We could have thoughts of things mattering to us, but nothing would actually matter to us15/ So thoughts really count but we can't rely on them

From here, this is where my theory comes in. It is not our negative emotions that make our lives matter to us in good ways16/ So your theory boils down to negative emotions do not make your life matter???

It is only our positive emotions that do this17/ Positive emotions do make your life matter

while our negative emotions can only make our lives matter (but you said in 16 - never mind) to us in bad or horrible ways18/ Oh I see bad or horrible matter is a different matter than positive matter. I never knew that

This theory, if true19/ A qualifier which indicates the theory is NOT going to predict any outcomes

BUT

could change the world and help find cures and create a utopia life for us all so that people and artists can live the lives they were truly meant to live20/ A great sign of wishful thinking

As for the types of experiments we can perform to discover evidence for my theory if there really is evidence for it, I do not know21/ I have no idea for experiments to discover evidence (and I don't know if evidence exists)

am not good when it comes to ideas forexperiments22/ You have a theory which (could change the world) and (help find cures) and (create a utopia life for us all)
but (not good when it comes to ideas for experiments)
Very selective thought processes

OK let me be brutally honest with MY thoughts
Your ???? (what ever it is) is NOT new

I debated with myself how best to reply since you appear to be deaf to the other posters who have clearly pointed out the errors you have made
So I have gone back to your original post and inserted my thoughts into your post
This I hope will enable you to read what you have written followed immediately by my comment
Can we have a discussion about your ???? whatever it is, since theory, idea, thought bubble, are ruled out? NO
I over ruled Huey Dewey and Louie to make this reply but it came at the cost of my promising no more
You may have a out IF IF IF you put forward a COMPELLING case why this ??? should be taken seriously

Since our positive emotions allow us to experience the good qualities of life while our negative emotions allow us to experience the bad qualities of life, then our positive emotions are literally a force of goodness flowing through us while our negative emotions are literally a force of badness flowing through us1/ NO emotions are NOT a force let alone a literal force
Affirmative statements made with no evidence

It's a way, no different than a positive or negative charge2/ Not even close to being similar

Therefore, all famous artists and composers who have used their depression and misery as an inspiration for their art weren't living any sort of good life at all3/ A stupid assertion without any evidence

They did not have the force of light (i.e. goodness) flowing through them4/ I have no idea how the force of light flows through anybody and you have made another assertion with no supporting evidence

In a purely naturalistic universe, it would be the force of goodness5/ The Universe is wholly naturalistic

But in a spiritual universe, it would be the light of god6/ Mention of god puts YOU in the realm of PREACHING ideas not putting forward anything forward for disscussion

This means that the only true way to live one's life and be an artist is through one's positive emotions as they are the only things that can allow us to experience the good qualities of life7/ Preaching

These famous and genius miserable artists have mistakenly thought that they were experiencing the good qualities of life through inspiring others and whatnot through their art when this couldn't be any further from the truth8/ Making diagnosis without examination and drawing stupid conclusion

Now, I wish to be a composer. This means that I must fully recover from any emotional trauma and misery in my life before I can finally embrace and celebrate the good qualities of my life and composing8/ Seems like you like / want (via praying?) to be a composer by asking God to cure you of emotional trauma and making you one. Don't see anything in there about YOU putting in some effort to learn anything

Without the light in my life, then my life can only be darkness or just simply blank (neither light nor dark)9/ I take the light to be god

It's no way to live or be an artist. Our positive emotions are the only things that can make our lives worth living in a good way10/ Really???

Let me actually break it down for you:11/ I would say don't bother but I know you will

It is an established fact12/ Bold statement

that our emotions are everything to our lives13/ Bold assertion but no evidence or even reference backup

Without emotions, then nothing could matter to us14/ See 13/

We could have thoughts of things mattering to us, but nothing would actually matter to us15/ So thoughts really count but we can't rely on them

From here, this is where my theory comes in. It is not our negative emotions that make our lives matter to us in good ways16/ So your theory boils down to negative emotions do not make your life matter???

It is only our positive emotions that do this17/ Positive emotions do make your life matter

while our negative emotions can only make our lives matter (but you said in 16 - never mind) to us in bad or horrible ways18/ Oh I see bad or horrible matter is a different matter than positive matter. I never knew that

This theory, if true19/ A qualifier which indicates the theory is NOT going to predict any outcomes

BUT

could change the world and help find cures and create a utopia life for us all so that people and artists can live the lives they were truly meant to live20/ A great sign of wishful thinking

As for the types of experiments we can perform to discover evidence for my theory if there really is evidence for it, I do not know21/ I have no idea for experiments to discover evidence (and I don't know if evidence exists)

am not good when it comes to ideas forexperiments22/ You have a theory which (could change the world) and (help find cures) and (create a utopia life for us all)
but (not good when it comes to ideas for experiments)
Very selective thought processes

OK let me be brutally honest with MY thoughts
Your ???? (what ever it is) is NOT new

That wasn't my logical argument that you have addressed, but let me just say one thing here. When I say that my positive emotions are the light to my life, then this could go both ways. It could be a naturalistic version which would simply mean that the positive emotions themselves are states of mind that make my life beautiful. Or, it could be the light of god in a supernatural universe. In which case, I would need this divine light in my life (i.e. positive emotions). I am undecided on the existence of god, the paranormal, and the afterlife which is the reason why I am considering both possibilities.

You're the one who brought up the point in the first place. It has no relevance whatsoever in terms of being any evidence for my theory. You talked about how I was ignoring the fact that depressed people do not have the working brain physiology to make them feel positive emotions. Just because depressed people can't make themselves feel positive emotions is not any counter evidence for my theory and neither is it any evidence for my theory.

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So, then, you are simply writing people who suffer from depression off?

So, then, you are simply writing people who suffer from depression off?

Real fucking humanitarian, this one folks...

Sorry, your theory is bullshit.

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My intention was not to insult or make depressed people feel worthless or inferior in any way or that their lives are worthless. There is the difference between being someone who has such a sinister intention as opposed to someone who merely wishes to speak the truth. I am a messenger of truth and I wish to share this truth to help find cures and change the world for the better regardless of how offensive said truth is. This truth would help create a blissful life that we as human beings and artists alike need to make our lives and artistic endeavors truly beautiful. My intention is not to be a troll (someone who pesters and insults people). I am being honest in my worldview. You treat me as though I am just some insignificant scum on the face of this planet preaching bull crap. This couldn't be any further from the truth. You fail to realize the power of our positive emotions. I can see their power for what it truly is while most of humanity are blind to this and simply deem them as trivial things.

Remember, what it all comes down to is what it is like for us as human beings to be miserable and to judge our misery and lives as beautiful and good in despite of that misery. Here, I will quote it out to you:

You Think You're So Smart!: Many people might also get the idea that I think I am smarter than a genius. For me to make the claim that these geniuses were all wrong might make this look like a situation where I am trying to exalt myself above these geniuses. This isn't true. It's not a matter of me thinking I am special or greater than them. Rather, it is about the force of light which is something that goes beyond any genius.

You can be the greatest genius in the world. But none of that will amount to anything without the power of the light in your life. I just can't believe people ignore the light and think they are living the good and beautiful life anyway. I talked about the idea of consciousness based values in my other packet. These are different values than the one's these geniuses lived by.

They are the higher values. I call them the emotional values. The fact is, these geniuses were not focusing on what it was actually like for them to live their lives miserable. Had they done so like I did, then they would realize that their lives are completely devoid of the light and filled with darkness. Let's pretend that these miserable geniuses were alive today and I asked them what it is like, then they would respond to me by saying that it is like something beautiful for them.

They would tell me that their misery and despair is truly like something good and beautiful for them. This is the wrong idea of what it's like. Just because you have the thought of your life being beautiful does not mean that it's actually like something beautiful. My consciousness based values go beyond words (thoughts). These types of values focus on whether you have this light in your life or not. You might think I'm crazy when saying all of this. But then again, people had ideas that changed the world that were also deemed as crazy. I think the world needs to be awakened to consciousness based values.

Your attitude casually and nonchalantly deems me as some sort of insignificant scum on the face of this planet preaching bull. This couldn't be any further from the truth.

No One Can See It: Everyone is blind to the power of our positive emotions. Most of humanity cannot see the power that they have while I am the one who can see it. They are deemed as trivial things and this really gets to me because this would also mean that my own inner light would be deemed as something trivial. Furthermore, people would treat me as some sort of insignificant sum on the face of the Earth who preaches bull crap. These people have absolutely no idea who I am and it is instead these types of people who are the blind, insignificant scum on the face of the planet.

In addition to the previous replies I have made to both of you members which I want you to respond to, let me point something out here that is blatantly obvious. It should prove my theory as obvious right here and now. I said earlier that our emotions are everything to our lives and make our lives matter in either good or bad ways. Without emotions, then we would lose our empathy and humanity. Nothing would matter to us.

This is a proven fact. We already know this when it comes to neuroscience and evolution. From here, this is where my theory comes in and makes itself quite obvious. Our positive emotions are the light to our lives (can only make our lives matter to us in good ways) while our negative emotions are the darkness to our lives (can only make our lives matter to us in bad ways).

To say that negative emotions can make our lives matter to us in good ways or that our positive emotions can make our lives matter to us in bad ways makes no sense. It would be no different than saying that a negative charge can be a positive charge or that a positive charge can be a negative one.

This is so obvious and I can't understand why others are unable to see this. This means that all the famous and genius miserable composers and artists who did not have their positive emotions or, at least, had a very small degree of them, had little to nothing in their lives. Their artistic endeavors were nothing but darkness regardless of what they believed otherwise.

Therefore, our negative emotions are no way to live or be an artist and neither is having no emotions at all any way to live or be an artist. It can only be our positive emotions that can truly make our lives beautiful and worth living. Lastly, my theory obviously hasn't been well known in the past. If it has, then we would not have so many people and artists to this very day thinking that negative emotions can make our lives and artistic endeavors truly beautiful and good.

My intention was not to insult or make depressed people feel worthless or inferior in any way or that their lives are worthless. There is the difference between being someone who has such a sinister intention as opposed to someone who merely wishes to speak the truth.

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No, there isn't. There would be if there was any factual evidence to back up this spew you keep throwing out there - but, unfortunately for you (and fortunately for the educated world) there isn't. The evidence actually contradicts you at every turn. You cannot "will" yourself to be happy over the long term; at best, you can will yourself to be content, but that is about it. Being rich with material possessions does not ensure happiness, much like being poor does not ensure sadness; just look at the indigenous tribes for proof of this.

The number of individual factors that go into someones psychological profile are many, and your attempts to distill them down to "a simple truth" are as foolish as they are disturbing - you are, in essence, peddling snake oil; dangerous snake oil that is as liable to cause one suffering depression, sitting on that knifes edge, to lean away from the help they so desperately need and deserve and to take their own life.

You are, quite frankly, despicable for even suggesting such things; your apparent lack of compassion and empathy notwithstanding, you have solidly placed yourself in the same level as that horrible girl who pushed her boyfriend to commit suicide via text message by egging him on and telling him he wasn't brave enough to do it.

I said earlier that our emotions are everything to our lives and make our lives matter in either good or bad ways. Without emotions, then we would lose our empathy and humanity. Nothing would matter to us.

This is a proven fact. We already know this when it comes to neuroscience and evolution.

No, there isn't. There would be if there was any factual evidence to back up this spew you keep throwing out there - but, unfortunately for you (and fortunately for the educated world) there isn't. The evidence actually contradicts you at every turn. You cannot "will" yourself to be happy over the long term; at best, you can will yourself to be content, but that is about it. Being rich with material possessions does not ensure happiness, much like being poor does not ensure sadness; just look at the indigenous tribes for proof of this.

The number of individual factors that go into someones psychological profile are many, and your attempts to distill them down to "a simple truth" are as foolish as they are disturbing - you are, in essence, peddling snake oil; dangerous snake oil that is as liable to cause one suffering depression, sitting on that knifes edge, to lean away from the help they so desperately need and deserve and to take their own life.

You are, quite frankly, despicable for even suggesting such things; your apparent lack of compassion and empathy notwithstanding, you have solidly placed yourself in the same level as that horrible girl who pushed her boyfriend to commit suicide via text message by egging him on and telling him he wasn't brave enough to do it.

Then, on the opposite side of things, you have things like bipolar disorder, which can be treated and, with a little work, those who afflicted with it can often lead normal, productive lives.

Emotions are not the crux of humanity, despite what you might wish.

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I don't read any bad intentions. I see this poster saying that positive emotions are healing and beneficial as well as further motivator for life. that is true.

emotions may not be the crux of humanity as in absolutely necessary (can exist in neutral state) but 'negative' emotions aren't beneficial to one's life, if one can't bypass it to a neutral or positive state. this is why some do resort to suicide because they can't handle the pain anymore. So why the hostility?

The issue with emotions is that you can't completely rely on it to ascertain reality though. one can experience euphoria, say, from harmful drugs that will ultimately do harm.

This is why you have to pair reason with emotions to correctly evaluate the causes and effect.

How one defines or identifies 'positive' emotions can vary too. One can be happy for stupid, harmful or dysfunctional reasons. So 'positive' has other variables involved. Some people experience happiness (or what the individual identifies as positive emotions) from harming others, for example. But in reality, it can be from dysfunctional coping mechanism.

So what makes one happy immediately, may not actually be positive or can even be relied on. It can also be due to illusory reasons. As long as that bubble doesn't burst, it may be harmless but if it does, then your emotions will deflate. Sometimes, this can be quite effective, such as a faith that can't be proven/disproven and beneficial, depending on what it is.

Very few things in life are lasting and if you don't want to be constantly on that seesaw of trying to find happiness through others who can fail you or in materialism that loses it's luster etc then that is why...most people learn the wisdom eventually that lasting happiness is derived from within yourself, however you can muster it. Connection with the cosmos, divine, universal love etc or whatever idea that floats your boat. Usually a concept that is larger and more constant (at least in theory) than the vagaries of mundane life, death and fallible 'others'.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, birch. Regardless of intent, the "advice" being offered can and will cause harm to those that Matt is claiming are incapable of having a happy life, and by extension are saying are not worth worrying about. He then goes on to equate this "happiness" with religious faith, making the connection that one cannot be happy without God...

They did not have the force of light (i.e. goodness) flowing through them. In a purely naturalistic universe, it would be the force of goodness. But in a spiritual universe, it would be the light of god. This means that the only true way to live one's life and be an artist is through one's positive emotions as they are the only things that can allow us to experience the good qualities of life.

Now, I wish to be a composer. This means that I must fully recover from any emotional trauma and misery in my life before I can finally embrace and celebrate the good qualities of my life and composing. Without the light in my life, then my life can only be darkness or just simply blank (neither light nor dark). It's no way to live or be an artist. Our positive emotions are the only things that can make our lives worth living in a good way.

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In essence, he is saying someone with PTSD, or who was raped, or who has "any emotional trauma" is unable to celebrate the good things in life, and thus cannot contribute.

No, one doesn't need to banish all negative emotion before one can be a composer.
One doesn't need to fully recover from a trauma before one can be a composer.
Negative emotions can inspire just as much as positive, if not more so.
And it is the process of creating while under their influence that can help one restore balance.
Not every piece of music is about blissful ignorance in a powder-puff existence, and that is for the simple reason that negative emotions can inspire, can be more powerful messengers, can fuel motivation.

But what has any of this to do with the thread title, that good and bad are properties?
Is the OP suggesting they are objective properties?
One man's good might well be another man's bad... so where the objective property?

Not every piece of music is about blissful ignorance in a powder-puff existence, and that is for the simple reason that negative emotions can inspire, can be more powerful messengers, can fuel motivation.

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yes, but this is an impetus or should be a temporary state that one passes through to positive or neutral (safe) state. if you are chased by a bear and all that fear and adrenaline is pumping through your system which is necessary for you to start running, doesn't mean you want to be in that state of being chased by a bear and running for your life forever.