Missionaries of Hate

Correspondent Mariana van Zeller travels to Uganda, where many question whether the growing influence of American religious groups has led to a movement to make homosexuality a crime punishable by death.

As an anti-gay movement spreads across the continent, gay Africans and their families face an increasingly uncertain future of isolation, imprisonment or even execution.

The film makes it much easier to understand why the general Ugandan public is so eager to send their peers to jail. If the most prominent spiritual leader in your community made it his life purpose to convince you that there were people coming to eat your poop and recruit your children, you would be against them too. They are only hearing one side of the story and it is the origin of their information that is truly infuriating.

Although Ugandan leaders are deeply offended by the notion, the facts definitively show that American evangelists have played a central role in defining the nation’s hard line against sexual minorities. The documentary focuses on American evangelist Dr. Scott Lively, who is widely credited with installing the dominant notion that homosexuals are after your children.

When asked if he condemns the legislation, Lively says that he condemns the death penalty aspects of the bill, but that overall the bill is a “lesser of two evils” compared to the prospect of having American gay activists do to Uganda what they have done to America.

Vanguard, airing weekly on Current TV Mondays at 9/8c, is a no-limits documentary series whose award-winning correspondents put themselves in extraordinary situations to immerse viewers in global issues that have a large social significance.

Unlike sound-bite driven reporting, the show's correspondents, Adam Yamaguchi, Kaj Larsen, Christof Putzel and Mariana van Zeller, serve as trusted guides who take viewers on in-depth real life adventures in pursuit of some of the world's most important stories.

272 Comments / User Reviews

Pastor Sempa says that accepting homosexuality is a Western idea brought to Africa. But he somehow skips over the fact that Christianity was brought to Africa by the West, which negates his entire argument. Convenient.

Once again Christians are promoting Black on Black hate. And like in America, Black Christians jump on the chance to please them. Yes Master, I will hate for you. Yes Master, I will kill for you. Yes Master, here is my land for a bible. Yes Master, please wash me white with the love of Jesus. Take my evil Blackness away. Make it easier for me to bear this yoke of racism you have put on me. Make sure I focus my hate on other Black people so I don't notice you stripping my continent to it's bones.

Am I the only one who finds it vaguely disturbing how much Sempa is OBSESSED with homosexual activity? He takes pleasure in going into the detail about what perceived homosexual activity is.

As Christopher Hitchens once aptly said, and here I paraphrase, those who so fiercely hate homosexuality have insecurities about their own, and so commonly this stems from suppression. I would not be surprised if this pastor is a flaming homosexual behind closed doors. It's only a matter of time until we find this out.

He found a way to justify watching gay porn. I'm sure he told his wife it was "research". Can't believe she fell for it.

johavah
- 12/03/2012 at 12:21

Our Brother has indeed given an endless list of insects, fish, reptiles, birds, amphibians, mammals etc. Which means he has a large background of reproductive behavior than me I guess. It is true most of these animals do these things.

TWO FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS
1. Under what circumstances do these animals exhibit this behavior?
2.The other question for my brother is WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND THESE ANIMALS?

To give some hint, non of these animals have written or expressed themselves on this platform even if you captured one animal doing it and brought it to sit on you key it cant express its self on this platform and if it did it will be screaming for freedom from your captivity.
GOD created you a human gave you wisdom to distinguish good from evil. And that is why in the first place you are not to behave like the animals you have listed.

the seahorse. not only is he male, but he gives birth to the babies. and you know what is different between us and the animals? We have free choice. they do not have free choice over our enslavement and constant comparison to them. may you awake from your man made mind control, realize that man made god in his image, and truly, truly be free.

Lucas Dawkins
- 08/30/2012 at 18:50

Religion rears its ugly face again. I hope one day the human race will evolve enough to not need it.
Homosexuals eating poop? Fisting? The pastor spreads lies to enhance his hate message.

Gays are trying to push their agenda on the entire world. Now I am an African American woman and I am their are all kinds of racism against me because of the color of my skin. Yet, you want me too bow down too a immoral sin handed down by God himself. Now my question is first get rid of God and then have you agenda of gay pushing. I feel theaten because I will never accept gay or homosexuality as a norm..The gay agenda is a European agenda because it was and has been practice open in their cultures for hundreds of years. I rather draw my last breath before I give any support too homosexuality...I only going to live on Earth for a short time and live with God for enternity. I now understand why God said do not setup any treasures here on Earth only store heavenly treasures.

What do you think the religion you belong to is then? Its certainly not an African tradition, more of an imperialist European tradition used to assimilate and enslave other nations.

littletrotsky
- 08/22/2012 at 12:44

"The gay agenda is an european agenda". Incorrect: homophobia is an euroean agenda: hence why african regions who had had little exposure to christianity or Islam were more accepting of homosexuality until their introduction by imperialists: christianity from european empires and islam from ottoman and arabian empires. Considering the number of immoral things god approves of what would make you think you've not bowed down to any number of others (as well as your ancestors: sins are transferable otherwise what's the point of jesus?).

lynn debeal
- 05/09/2013 at 06:31

Girl, you bow to a Prophet who condoned your enslavement? A prophet that says your being a woman makes you less-than? Just wondering....is your computer a "treasure"? Is it "earthly", or "heavenly"? Am I to assume you don't own any earthly treasures like jewelry? A comfortable car? Designer clothes? That you are celibate if you are single? Are alright with your husband "taking you" anytime he wants? That you cover your hair? Don't wear pants? Don't have pierced ears? Don't paint your lips?

Vennie Kocsis
- 10/31/2013 at 07:38

There was once a time where the same was said about brown skinned people that they were trying to "push their right for equality onto the world" and "how dare they want to vote" and "how dare they want equal rights." Christians love to pick and choose agendas as it applies to how righteous they need to feel to feel better about themselves. They judge what they are uncomfortable with. You are uncomfortable thinking about the kiss of another woman, so you latch onto a religion in order to cover your own insecurity. Keep clinging to the religion that the slave masters placed on your ancestors. And if for some reason you find out that there is an entity called "God", follow the book that man wrote in his voice and judge not lest ye be judged.

one, two, free...
- 06/08/2012 at 09:05

Surely to goodness there are some Ugandans in the rest of the population who have critical thinking skills- I would like to have heard from them and see what they thought-are they too scared to speak?

I hope our brothers and sisters in Uganda will be safe from all this illogical hate.

Anyone willing to do conscientious Religious research on Patriarchal Societie's and their Mentality, and what they propagated and recorded as "Holy Dogma" for "True Believers" to follow will soon come to the conclusion that their usage of "Manipulating Control Factors" HAD to be written into that Dogma in order to maintain their Power Bases...til this very day...all of mankind has suffered unmentionable human atrocities at the hand of "Holy Doctrines" that could NEVER have been put forward by a Loving God/Deity. Think about that for a few minutes and then see if your blind faith makes sense to your Sense of Humanity in a more evolved world than what the Priests and Scribes wrote down thousands of years ago.

That's one reason why Jesus HAD to come, because the people, being people, were maliciously misintepreting the Holy Texts, for their own benefit and profit... and it's still happening nowadays!

Jesus set the record straight: it's all about loving God, and loving our neighbors. Take a look at 2 Corinthians 13, to have a better understanding of what true love means. I bet that all of us fall short when we compare to those standards, but nevertheless that's what a true christian ought to be doing: LOVE.

lynn debeal
- 05/09/2013 at 06:33

The Jesus that condones slavery?

whateveruk
- 08/08/2011 at 12:54

You say that you believe homosexuality is an abomination of God. So you are basing your moral stand point on the teachings of the Bible. If we took our morals from what was actually written in the Bible then this would be an even more evil world. I ask you to read your Bible from cover to cover and then you will understand how sick this evil book is. So if you believe that homosexuality is wrong because of the teaching of the Bible then you must condone Rape, Slavery, Torture, Child Abuse and Human Sacrifice because the bile CONDONES ALL of these things. Instead of just listening to what your preacher tells you, grab your Bible & I will walk you through the evils of this book:

Rape In The Bible

Rape is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. Yet few people know that the Bible often condones and even approves of rape. How anyone can get their moral guidance from a book that allows rape escapes me. Perhaps they have been lied to about the Bible and carefully detoured around all the nasty stuff in the Bible.

So grab your Bibles and follow along as I show you all the nasty rapes that your priests and preachers don't want to tell you about. Note that in many places in the Bible there are references to "taking a wife". Don't be fooled into thinking that these were voluntary marriages. This first quote clearly shows that murder and force were used to "take" these wives.

1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?

2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.

3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?

4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

It is clear that God doesn't give a darn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".

Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]

This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

Once again God approves of forcible rape.

8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)

They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)

9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

Slavery in the Bible

Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.

Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.

The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

Murder in the Bible

The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.

The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved of in the Bible.

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Great stuff man.
Unlike most you have read the bible and see through the crap.
Thanks.

guest
- 08/22/2012 at 12:22

Good summary. You may have missed a few parts though, including the part where jesus is racist: but I think that's fair enough considering the amount of stuff you did cover. Deutoronomy's a veritable goldmine of warped outdated morality isn't it?

Joel Santos
- 02/21/2013 at 20:38

Where does it say that in the Bible?
Where is rape condoned or approved as a moral standard?

AntiTheist666
- 02/21/2013 at 21:31

Go to Evil Bible dot come

Chapter and Verse - condoning rape and pillaging. Sanctioned by God in his own dirty book!

The Crucified One

His Forever
- 06/28/2011 at 16:11

Az: Ok. Razor's right. Azilda is anything but "lukewarm" which means "uncommitted," which just isn't true------she's just not committed to my ideas! I was just being a bit rude purposefully, and that's wrong to do. Not the best word choice there. Sorry for that, Az.

I am not committed to any religion. I don't see the use. I have inside of me everything i need in order to be a good person, religion in my sense creates the evil i don't need, i don't want, i don't believe in.
az

Terry Wolfe
- 07/24/2011 at 10:07

Biblical religion does not create evil, it creates an awareness of evil. It divides evil from good, and exposes everyone as a sinner. Every person is guilty of sin, according to Christianity, and can be saved. You can see that the evangelicals themselves do not support the death penalty.

So it's a case of ignorance, misunderstanding, misplaced zeal, and many other things, but just as you could not condemn a political ideology by looking at people who misrepresent it, you cannot fairy criticize religion for those who misrepresent it either.

His Forever
- 06/27/2011 at 17:32

Oz: Your rant is double posted. You can rest assure that every vile word seems to be there (and then some that were cut and pasted). Luckily I've had no internet for 2 days so they posted before I checked back.

Here is the direct quote from my Facebook chat word for word, minus my friend's name: "But when I went to prison I decided my life was ove and that is when I decided to just become gar gay It is a choice I don't care who argues that one." Dated June 20th 2011. Please Don't call me a liar any longer. I rarely lie, but not in this case.

As far as the missionaries in Uganda, I can't stomach watching this documentary. If they are truly advocating death-penalty anti-homosexual legislation, then no, I cannot support that decision at all.

But, do I support a righteous life with righteous actions? Yes, absolutely. Even if you plan to be a cyber-bully, I cannot bow to political correctness and not call homosexual sin what it is: sin. Any, repeat ANY unrepentant sin, not just homosexual sin, results in a soul that will spend eternity away from God's presence in Hell. It's just that simple.

In your mind, Christians are all things evil; but in my mind, true believers and followers of Christ are all things good, pure, wholesome, and excellent in this world, and the world is a better place for having them in it.

Evil is as evil does, Oz, and whomever does evil (no matter if they are called a "Christian" or not) will not inherit God's kingdom. Whom do I fear most in this universe? Not the "church", but God Almighty Himself; He alone I ultimately want to please. Whomever has done evil in God's name will not escape the judgment of God in the end.

@CnN
I have counted over 100 thumbs up that were given to people having a discussion with you. I don't think there is 1 thumb up under one of your comment.
Even out of the many Christians that come here....not one has supported you, in your view on homosexuality.
That should be an indication that your perception of life is in need of a little revision after 2000yrs of controlled thoughts.
az

His Forever
- 06/28/2011 at 03:05

Az, righteousness is not a popularity contest. Besides, I do think think this website is very liberal oreiented and visited. When I prayed and commented on a Christians website I had numberous people say that I had wisdom and enjoyed my posts and prayers a great deal. I doubt you'd have a single follower there. Nice people who would "encourage" you in your search for truth, but certainly not applaud your lukewarm heart.

Last thought: The Bible says "Woe unto you when all men speak well of you." That means if all people are supporting you wholeheartedly then surely you're not standing up for what's right in the world nor for God as Jesus also said, "If the world has hated me, then they will hate you also." Every man and woman who spports rightousness will be hated by those that don't. Noah was very unpopular in his day; God was his only fan! I'll go back and remove some of my "likes" is you'd like so you don't have as many. I gave a few, but certainly not on this thread.

Something to think about.

Guest
- 06/28/2011 at 04:10

I was talking about this thread on homosexuality where a few people were involved.
az

Achems_Razor
- 06/28/2011 at 04:23

@C_and_N:

Well you know the old saying, "birds of a feather flock together" you mentioning your religious websites. Maybe I also should post on your religee website, to see if I am welcomed or not, will I start a war maybe? hope so, need action. (LOL)

You calling Azilda lukewarm?? I think not there Charles.
I think she is a hot br...,, Er, woman.

Guest
- 06/28/2011 at 18:01

@Achems
Well thank you....hot bread? I am a dough nut after all!
You also look pretty hot with the mask on, blue fits you well, and those eyes!
az

Prison out of all places might be a good place to calm down one's sexual urge, specially if it is homosexual in NATURE. I heard a million times that that could get you into trouble more than by religious people on the outside.
az

His Forever
- 06/28/2011 at 16:17

Sorry for calling you "lukewarm" Az. I was grumpy last night. Blessings.

Guest
- 06/28/2011 at 17:55

I told you before CnN, lukewarm is better than freezing or boiling when it comes to the way we see people.
az

His Forever
- 06/28/2011 at 03:12

Ok. Bowing out of this thread. Everything's been said that can be said, I think. We all know perfectly well the other's argument.

0zyxcba1
- 06/28/2011 at 04:19

@ C_and_N

i don't believe you.

His Forever
- 06/28/2011 at 16:16

I no longer care.

0zyxcba1
- 06/29/2011 at 03:59

@ C_and_N

You mean there was a time when you did?!

0zyxcba1
- 06/27/2011 at 15:08

@ Azilda

I've talked to Vlatko(emailed each other) he doesn't understand either. I removed all links, and I cut it into two sections, but I either get the unedited one in full or half of the cleaned up version(spelling/typo errors, etc.). So it's official: I am making no further effort. I've wasted too much time on this already. And the system is posting things in two places at once, and I'm tired.

You can edit a comment that has been printed already. You can even change the whole thing if you want. Erase all, paste and copy what you want and press edit!
ANYWAY

Yesterday i spent the day on a nice beach on the shore of Kootenay Lake in the company of a dozen young women (the age of my daughters) raised in the mountains hyppie style. Very Inspiring.
During the 6-7 hrs i was there, i followed the conversation in curiosity ( i had this reply in mind). They talked about boys (don't know if some of them are lesbian or not), about tree planting and making a living, about university, about traveling, about biking and hiking, they laughed the whole day. We swam, smoked a few doobies, drank a few pear ciders, made a fire and ate meat or veggie burgers, just a regular sunny day in the Koots.

What i realized at the end of the day is that no one had mentionned wars, politics, religions and the inequality of life.
To us that day...it did not exist, we ignored it (on purpose or not).

I came home and pondered on that.
...........................................................................

What will it take to brake the flow of hatred that has been going on for eons? It has never NOT existed according to history and legends.

The answer has to be hidden in the way we deal with each other on a small scale (nothing new i have said that already before).
OR
We deny this reality to exist all together. We ignore it.
As i also said before: What is worse than being loved or hated is being completely ignored, specially for a hater.
I know this sounds very SIMPLISTIC. But it appears to be the only thing the world has never tried on a large scale.

Ignore the politicians by not voting (there ARE NO GOOD CHOICE EVER)
Ignore the religious by not attending church on time (go when YOU NEED IT ALONE or go sit in Nature)
Ignore the government by not paying tax (THE COMPANIES should be the only ones to pay taxes not the individuals, we are not a contract on signature)
Ignore the wars by not fighting (no president, lawyers, bankers will go for you)
Ignore my message if you think i am crazy, allow that maybe we are all so different that in a way we are all the same! W + M

But First and foremost: Ignore your ego, walk all over it. Liberate your Self from the confine of yourself. See that you are ONE only when you are will all.

Immerse yourself in your Self
Self Importance doesn't hurt any 1
az
*i may add to this...but i am called to go somewhere this morning.

0zyxcba1
- 06/27/2011 at 14:56

@ Azilda

Thank you Azilda. Your comments to everyone, including me, are always gentle, kind and helpful.

I do what I can. I shout. I shoot. I cry. I laugh and joke. But most important, I listen. I listen to all opinions and I either think and speak, or I just think.

Faith is not an opinion.

No one, not you, nor I, nor anyone, in any room, can 'listen' to faith. It is not a matter of choice. Faith is inorganic. 'Listening' to faith would be like listen to a hieroglyph, or to a monument or to the Dead Sea Scrolls. One does attempt to decipher meaning, but one cannot ask a scroll if one has understood correctly. The scroll cannot try to understand. The scroll cannot listen. The scroll is dead.

Faith is dead.

One can choose to treat life as just a game, but Life does not see you that way. Life is all about staying alive, and staying alive is serous business. Life is not a game. [Lest there be doubt, I can provide you with a link showing, live, faith slicing a woman in two]. Life is not a game!

Nor is Life war, though staying alive sometimes is.

I must keep a "vigilant eye" on how I fight a war to stay alive. My "vigilant eye" tells me that I am an old man; my "vigilant eye" tells me there is little I can do here alone in my apartment in front of my keyboard; my "vigilant eye" tells me that does not mean I can do nothing.

Homosexuals have been, and are being, treated horribly. Mathew Sheapard¹. I will never forget. I will never stop remembering. I will never stop reminding. As long as I am alive, people who come in contact with me will know Mathew Sheapard, and not be permitted to forget.

Oscar Wilde. Read, even just a thumbnail biography. You will come away horrified.

Alan Turing, England's favorite son, who saved England from total destruction by NAZI bombardment, and may be the reason we are all of us not now obliged to speak German, was driven to suicide by the very country he had saved. The British Security Service, MI5 (after war's end) decided his homosexuality made him a 'security risk' and so when Turing reported to the police a burglary of his home (set up by MI5) by a young man with whom he had an affair, instead of arresting the thief, they arrested Alan! The Crown tried him for being homosexual and then chemically castrated him.

"He was found by his cleaner when she came in on 8 June 1954. He had died the day before of cyanide poisoning, a half-eaten apple beside his bed. His mother believed he had accidentally ingested cyanide from his fingers after an amateur chemistry experiment, but it is more credible that he had successfully contrived his death to allow her alone to believe this. The coroner's verdict was suicide."~ Wikipedia

On September 11, 2009, Prime Minister Gordon Brown publicly understated:"...on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely thanks to Alan's work I am very proud to say: we're sorry, you deserved so much better."

That was a lie! Alan deserved the BEST!

The Prime Minister also slipped in 'after all, it was the law', and it would still be the 'law' if CnN had anything to say about it! And that is the truth. (After all, CnN, sin is sin, now ain't it, you pig!)

____________________________________________________________________¹New York Times:
"Matthew Shepard, the gay college student who was kidnapped, robbed and pistol-whipped, died on Oct. 12, 1998, five days after he was rescued from a Wyoming ranch where he had been left tied to a fence for 18 hours in near-freezing temperatures."

An Evangelical church started and maintains a site keeping a clock showing the number of days "Mathew has been in hell."
____________________________________________________________________

Needless to say, I could go on...

"Venice is beautiful.

"The main entrance to Venice is marked by 2 columns erected in 1172 by Nicolo Barattieri. On the one stands the city’s original patron, Saint Theodore, with his crocodile. Atop the other, the column of San Marco, rests the symbol of Venice, itself – the winged bronze lion, the Lion of St Mark the Evangelist, and protector of Venice.

"More gay people were killed between those two columns than anywhere else in Europe until the holocaust.

"A faggot is a bundle of sticks used to fuel a fire. How faggot became the term for a gay man is unknown...[one] derivation suggests that we throw the faggots on the fire. From Constantine, the first Christian Emperor of Rome, and for the next 1,500 years, Christians burned the gay. We think of the Inquisition as burning heretics, but according to records of the trials, more gay people were killed than religious heretics....The central question in Christendom was not whether it was just to burn gay people or not, but whether it was better to kill them first or to burn them alive.

"Venice is vulnerable to the sea. Inundated by annual floods, the Venetians lived in constant fear of worse climatic disasters.

"Being Christian, the Venetians believed that the primary story of God destroying a city is the tale of Sodom, where God rained down fire and brimstone because the Sodomites allowed homosexuality to thrive. So the citizens of Venice decided to protect their city and their wealth by killing the gay people, burning them alive between those magnificent pillars. Over the years the screams of gay people burning in Saint Mark’s Square became too much for the bureaucrats working in the surrounding palaces, so in a humanitarian gesture towards those working nearby, the city decided to behead the accused gay person before the burnings. For hundreds of years Venetians pursued and killed gay people to ensure the city’s prosperity and God’s blessings.

This is for you, Charles(just especially!):

"Hard as it is to believe, there are modern American Christians who continue to preach the killing of gay people. There are American evangelicals who are unable to kill gays in America, and so are backing “death for gays” legislation across Africa. This legislation got dangerously close to passing in Uganda in 2010, and Christian American money promoting these bills continues to flow. Even here in the States Christians attend rallies with signs advocating death for the gay. Gay people are blamed for 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, and pretty much every earthquake or wildfire in California. The medieval views of the Venetians are alive and well to this day.

"Of course that is not the norm. Most Christians in America do not believe we should kill gay people. They believe tormenting us is enough. In the name of God, morals, families, righteousness, country, national security, civilization, and the human race, many Americans believe hurting the gay is a Christian duty. Gay people are bad and must be punished for their wrongness, and the pain inflicted must be horrible enough to serve as a message to others who might choose this deviant path. So we end up with what my friend Jathan Gurr calls the 'If we just hurt them enough they won’t be gay' attitudes that dominate our political and religious discourse."

What you see below is not what I wrote. The 'moderator' has snatched what I wrote, again, for review.

You will have to wait for my posting.

MOST FRUSTRATING. Piss!

0zyxcba1
- 06/23/2011 at 03:57

@ C_and_N

"Oz: Two days ago my long-term gay friend Skyped me and said he's coming of the gay lifestyle. He said it WAS a choice, much to my surprise. He thanked me for never hurting him. I wish him the best of luck."

Of course you are lying. The dead have no friends. And such a pathetic lie at that, lending credence to the word of someone who steadfastly holds to one story only to spontaneously switch the other. And the pretence at surprise!

Well, now, Charles, I have a fable of my own to relate:

C&N: Two days ago my long-term left-handed friend Skyped me and said he's coming off the left-handed marketing-neologism-coined-in-1961-by-Daniel-Yankrlovich-to-sell-stuff-to-difficult-to-manage-consumers. He said that so-called 'left-handedness' was indeed nothing more than leading the left-handed marketing-neologism-coined-in-1961-by-Daniel-Yankrlovich-to-sell-stuff-to-difficult-to-manage-consumers and as such WAS indeed a choice, much to my surprise. He thanked me for never hurting him. I wish him the best of suck(sorry, I mean 'luck').

Even the dead can be sad. C&N sheeplely claims: "I end my notes[sniff!sniff!],
~ "With fullest sincerety of heart,
~ "With peace to you as a blessing and a desire for peace."

The most effective and despicable way to hate is to insist it is love.

Charles hates 'millions of ones' in this, or in any other world, and Charlie hates so-called 'unity'. Ye all be damned, or saved is what rattles Charlie's bones.

C&N says that while he was alive in China he had no idea that a million of his fellow xtians were to enjoy that special place in heaven reserved by God for his beloved martyrs. He knows that God must have willed their agony as He would surely have otherwise intervened. At the liege of the Almighty, and the All Mercifully, God, one lucky 'Pastor' was permitted by Our Heavenly Father to rot in a Chinese cell for 25 years. Praised be the Lord!

Though he never had a friend, he have overheard atheists claim there was no god. But he thought them all to be wrong, and the unjust suffering and death of so many xtains proves it!

And, of course, Charlie Boy could give a rat's ass about the deaths of the other 40 to 70 million people who died at the same time since none were 'saved'. They went straight to hell!

And he has never shown any remorse, at all, for the millions of homosexuals murdered throughout the ages by Christian Churches, as them there fags done sinned against 'The Light'. Oz has mentioned several times in many posting as to what is going on in Iran, and now in Uganda. Never a tear shall be shed for them faggots, not from ol' Charlie Boy!

Bye the way, C&N's Lord and Savior, Jesus, The Christ, saw fit to sit closely enthroned On High while hundreds of 'Pastors' in China were drown in their own urine. If Jesus is into water sports, then so am is Charlie Boy! Praised be the Lord!

It's all part of God's great plan.

I forgot to mention that the 'Pastors who were so brutally murdered in China were speeding the same glad news as the 'Pastors in Uganda are now spreading. Praised be the Lord! (Perhaps those in China deserved to drown in their own piss!)

Now onto an utterly unrealized topic.
____________________________________________________________
“Considering the number of people killed by Christians in the name of Christianity, it appears that Jesus prefers murder by more violent means than by mere starvation.”
______________________________________________________________
Born-again Christian George W. Bush started two illegal wars which as, I write these words, continue to incinerate men women and children civilians

Born-again Christian George W. Bush signed into law PATRIOT Acts I&II transforming civil right to civil privileges

Born-again Christian George W. Bush served as poster-boy for the demolitions of WTC buildings 1,2,&7

Born-again Christian George W. Bush represented an administration killing over 3,000 innocent American lives as a direct result of his demolitions

Born-again Christian C_and_N¹ endlessly seeks to spread Christian propaganda to undermine the civil right of millions of gay Americans

Born-again Christian C_and_N² purposefully misuses the English language to falsely characterize ALL homosexuals on planet Earth

Born-again Christian C_and_N³ has made it clear is prepared to love homosexuals to death

Christian Harry S. Truman dropped not one, but two, atom bombs on the innocent civilians of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Christian FDR interred Japanese Americans in concentration camps

Christian LBJ initiated on the Bay of Tonkin lie, the Vietnam War in which 50,000 of his fellow young male xtians died and in which aprox 5.4 million non-Christians died

Christians saw to it that in the State of Kentucky it became illegal to teach the Fact of Evolution

An all-Christian Supreme Court refused to hear any case challenging the Kentucky law for 60 YEARS,

Christians commenced with, and maintained slavery, in the North American continent, justified by scripture.

The Native American population of North America was wiped out by diseases such as smallpox, influenza, bubonic plague, pneumonic plagues, and Christianity.

United States Christians murdered [by there OWN estimates] upwards from 100,000 and 500,000 Native Americans!

These US Government [run by primarily by Christians] estimates of anywhere between 100,000 and 500,000 Native Americans having been killed directly by United States Christians are generally ignored as self serving, and extremely low. Third party research has shown that between, 10 and 114 million native Americans deaths were the directly attributable to the deadly disease of United States Christianity.

"Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda's capital Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda that has not seen refugees - women, children, old - being brutally butchered facing the crucifix.

According to eyewitnesses clergymen gave away hiding Tutsis and turned them over to the machetes of the Hutu militia.

In connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them called the Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on fire and burn their victims alive..." [S2]
______________________________________________________________
BBC aired:

Priests get death sentence for Rwandan genocide
BBC NEWS April 19, 1998

A court in Rwanda has sentenced two Roman Catholic priests to death for their role in the genocide of 1994, in which up to a million Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed. Pope John Paul said the priests must be made to account for their actions. Different sections of the Rwandan church have been widely accused of playing an active role in the genocide of 1994...
______________________________________________________________

Guest
- 06/23/2011 at 20:51

I must say i put all my attention to your explanation of life from the perception of a gay man, a very smart one too!
To try and explain and be clear as to what it is to feel gay (inside) to a non-gay is sort of trying to explain the unexplainable, one has to trust you or believe you. I know science is exploring the "condition"(being French i can't guess what the exact right word should be here, correct me if i am wrong) but it doesn't appear to be conclusive yet, so a lot of people are misguided.
You add religion to the equation and the misguidance becomes very "clany".

I must also say when i read your comments i am either taken by a breath of fresh ideas, smiles, new knowledge and wisdom or i am taken by feelings of compassion and friendship, of understanding and camaraderie.
In some other comments like this one i get the feeling you are literally at war with the worse enemy on earth...and it is only poor CnN with his perception of the way of life base on his experience after he was "taken" by the church. I have never seen CnN be rude on purpose to you such as calling you a F because you are gay, or any other name calling (i might have skipped the rare one). I agree he seem to hide his narrowmindedness behind a certain innocence bordering on arrogance but that is his only ammunition. What can he prove with religion that he couldn't prove better with his openess? I think you must keep a vigilant eye on how you fight this game (not war).
So is life, it is just a game!
Of course one has to be oneself in such place as here on TDF, but one forgets that it is very similar to being in a large room with lots of people with many different opinions.
Do we shoot/shout at each other?
Do we give our best?
Specially to the ones that annoy us.
amitié
azilda

His Forever
- 06/24/2011 at 17:40

Oz: I'll have to look up the reference to the Native Americans and see why you say they were killed by "Christianity". Christians are not those in name only, but those that actually do God's will. As for the acts of many Catholics in the past and present, they've proven to be bloody bas-tards again and again. No man or woman, evil in heart and deed will escape God's judgment, and most especially those clocked in His name. Remember Jesus held the greatest condemnation for the Pharisees and Saducees of His time who were the most respected religious people of the day-- the creme de la creme!

As for the death of rightous Christians being a sport for God, then you are greatly mistaken there; this life is just a vapor of time--eternity in God's presence cannot even draw a comparison to this life's troubles or persecutions. Jesus suffered the greatest shame and death possible I think; He understand. I trust Him wholeheartedly even if life should not always turn out the way I would like all the time.

As for Rwanda, I watched a story where a Tutsi woman was buried alive with her entire murdered family, and was dug up some hours later and how she then became a Christian and then went back to Rwanda and found that man that macheted her and her family and left her for dead and forgave him face to face in jail. Now that, sir, is a powerful spirit of truth! A strength of character even I can hardly fathom. If she can forgive the man that killed her entire family and then tried to kill her too, then surely we (I) can forgive others that have hurt me too. She is the one through whom God was living, and working and showing His character, and not those evil nuns and priests that did Satan's killing at the time. I can find the link for you, if you'd like to watch that episode too!

Once again, in peace,

Charles B.

His Forever
- 06/24/2011 at 17:09

Ozyxcba1: I didn't lie. I had one error and one purposeful word change. He (R.) DID say it was a CHOICE--his choice, and that he wanted to go strait and was hoping he could find someone to love him (a woman) despite his past lifestyle. I told him it was indeed possible and to keep trying. He's wanted to take his life (and others) several times and we've kept in touch through the years and I've talked him out of "making the evening news" at least once or more times. I've known him for a good 20 years now, I think. My error was that I said "Skype" when it was Facebook, and my one purposeful change of wording was "hurt" instead of "molest" as he had been molested 3 times by 3 other men but not by me. He thanked me for never molesting him. That's more information than you desirve to know. Good day to you sir.

But, I understand your angst against Chrsistians (a little bit); you studied to be a Catholic preist and chose not to continue (or washed out as I did). R. was molested by my best friend that I introduced to him in a Christian youth outreach. I'm pretty much devistated about that. I'm sure there are good reason for your rage, but don't let it destroy your soul or faith that there is a one true God that at least at one time you seemingly held.

Peace to you, sincerely,

Charles B.

0zyxcba1
- 06/24/2011 at 18:58

C_and_N

Peace to you, sincerely, you fake!

0zyxcba1
- 06/25/2011 at 13:41

@ C_and_N

You understand nothing.

I have countered each of your lies in a posting which is
awaiting moderation due to links.

Just wait!

His Forever
- 06/23/2011 at 03:05

Mr. Razor: If it weren't for NYJoe's comment afterward, I wouldn't have even known what part of the sentence rubbed you the wrong way. If you want an apology, you have one; you've been a long term commenter with me and I really respect your feelings, especially if you feel insulted.

In a nutshell, what I was saying is that we all have various tempations of all kinds to do "evil" whatever you think evil may be. I just chose an example that most people would agree was pretty bad out of the air. You're not judged by man or God on temptations, but on your actions and the intents of your heart. That's all I ment.

Try to lighten up, as Oz even said he wished I would die (at least that's how I understdood it). Now that's a bit personal.

NYJoe: Yes, I think it's time to bow out. Not that I think I've said anything that wasn't truth, but for the fact that it could be a never-ending argument otherwise.

Az: I'm still bothered by the "ultimate truthlessness" of your worldview. It strikes me as so shallow and "achorless" not to know the "Rock" that is the one true God. Nonetheless, I too want to let is pass the best we can.

Alright, you apologized, and I accept your apology, I keep forgetting that your inflection of speech written, and/or, probably even otherwise, when it comes to your religion is very childlike. As most religee's are very childlike concerning their religious ferver. (Re. fairytales) as in beliefs with no real substance.

Or maybe, just maybe, could be akin to schizophrenia, and for that will not apologize. (LOL) I could be joking.

Guest
- 06/23/2011 at 17:20

@CnN.... "I'm still bothered by the "ultimate truthlessness" of your worldview. It strikes me as so shallow and "achorless" not to know the "Rock" that is the one true God. Nonetheless, I too want to let is pass the best we can."

FIRST i'll start with your last phrase. It is very easy for me to let this pass, i see no impoliteness in your words or mine, just a different opinion on spirituality from the little voice inside of each of us.
My voice is as free as possible from the influence of religion, yours is merged with it. My little voice stirs me to be as good as i think i can be, yours does the same. What ever comes out of our mouth is obviously not meant to hurt anyone but it ends up doing so because your religion is a dividing paradigm.
Therefore is makes clans...people who will go to heaven, and those who won't (and you can know which one), people who sin because they love in a way not supported by old books/values/ways of the past, people who are good but not good enough because their prayers go to Allah instead of Jesus...ect, people who sin and sin and sin.
I think oz is hard on you because you rub him very wrong where he has been rubbed very wrong so many times.
Of course it is not the real you who is at "fault", it is those beliefs you won't let go. If only you could keep your Jesus but let go of the rules, you would see that those rules are not needed, you know exactly how to be good, you do not need the words of some 2000 yrs old men (if they were alive). Can't you see that the bible was NOT written by Jesus, it was written about him by regular men (women???) who wanted control. It is quite a possibility that Jesus never existed and until you can prove the opposite you will have to rest your life on an idea imposed on you. Keep the best of your religion and get rid of the rest...you will be left with the true self.

SECOND Shallow and Anchorless....If it was shallow it wouldn't need an anchor. My view on spirituality is anything but shallow. It is deep with acceptance, with diversity, with tolerance, with unknown boundaries. I am the anchor, when an anchor is needed. You call your Jesus an anchor BUT TO ME IT IS MORE LIKE A CAPTAIN OVER YOU. It keeps you attached to the past, it keeps yours sails down, it keeps you from enjoying the vastness of the sea "life is". The million different ways to be spiritual.

THIRD *"ultimate truthlessness" of my worldview*. Well! what can i say? My worldview is like a huge piece of clay I have been molding all my life. ME...only ME...my own GOD, surrounded by GOD life, GOD earth, GOD nature, GOD universe, GOD cosmos, GOD you and them all.
As i say on myspace: My heroes are all the dead people for having succeeded at their best and all the ones alive for trying.
az

His Forever
- 06/24/2011 at 16:51

Ok. Understood; patially.

Guest
- 06/24/2011 at 17:44

@CnN
Partially is better than not at all....i do my best to understand you partially too...and i do or at least i think i do!
az

Guest
- 06/21/2011 at 19:10

Yes CnN i agree, Peace again to ALL.
I invite you to Sort by Oldest First, go down to page 14 and re-read our exchange all the way to page 20.
Peace is possible as a personal goal ONLY. When there are enough of us who have been able to reach peace within, then peace will find peace by itself, without a bible, a koran or any other old instruction booklet.
az

Az, sorting by oldest first was helpful. Not hardly impressed with your philosophy as Oz. I end my notes "with peace to you as a blessing and a desire for peace." You want "millions of ones" in the world but want "unity" without the one true God. Very sad.

Epic: I've lived in China; the city of 7 million I lived in han 3,000 churches in 1950 and 3 LEAGAL churches in 1999. The pastor of one was in prison for 25 years, The murders number in the multiple hundreds of thousands. I'm sure all of them are published by the Chinese government for your knowledge of how Christians are truly treated in China (sarcasum intended). I was told the pastors were drown in their own congregations urin when caught.

Oz: Two days ago my long-term gay friend Skyped me and said he's coming of the gay lifestyle. He said it WAS a choice, much to my surprise. He thanked me for never hurting him. I wish him the best of luck.

Mr. Razor: What you desire to do and what you don't do is a big difference. If you want to molest kids and don't then you're not accountable for that "sin," so, if someone stuggles with homsosexual tendancies, but doesn't practice it, but refrains from it, then "yes," he or she can go to Heaven.

With fullest sincerety of heart,

Charles B.

Achems_Razor
- 06/22/2011 at 18:51

Well now Charles, I really take offence to what you just said to me. Even to infer your straw-man fallacy does not hold right with me.

You have no business to even portray as a maybe, such nefarious activity to someone you do not really know, now I demand an apology! You have just made a real "SIN"

Joe_NYC
- 06/22/2011 at 23:38

Charles give it a break. You have insulted too many people with your naive understanding of the world in this thread. I know you don't mean to be hurtful but you are talking to real people who are intelligent. Sometimes, it's better to listen and learn than to talk out of your arse!

razor

You read charles post wrong. He wasn't calling you a pedophile.

Achems_Razor
- 06/22/2011 at 23:51

@Joe_NYC:

Yes, I know he was "not," but it still rubbed me the wrong way.

His Forever
- 06/17/2011 at 16:30

@ Kibuuka and 0zyxcba1 and Az

Kibuuka, let's have a little mercy here . . . Jesus had mercy on the woman caught in adultry that was going to be stoned didn't he? Her crime was also worthy of death at the time. So was king David's adultury with Bathsheba, but God spared his life also. Give place to the possibility of repentance in the future. I support the death penalty for murder, etc. but we need to hear the voice of God to reach out to those lost in sexual sin, not to kill them. Where would you and I be without the grace of God? Haven't you sinned also? I sure have! Give place to God's mercy, for the Bible says where sin abounds, His grace even more abounds (with repentance). Without His grace we all would be lost; so let's not make an excuse for "sin" but lets also give place for mercy to work as well. No killing, please.

Ozyxba1: You have a victims complex. Any opposition to your gay lifestyle is considered by you to be persecution. NOTE: The Muslim you said would "remove" you, would remove ME too, without blinking any eye if he's a true Muslim. Get over it. No one is more persecuted world-wide than Christians, and I think that's a fact. Thank you, however, for standing up for freedom of speech. As for the Hell issue; it would be horrendously evil hearted of me and others like me, if we didn't "warn" others. God told the prophet Ezekiel, I believe, that if he did not warn the wicked man and he died in his sin, then God would also require that man's blood of the prophet that stayed silent. But, if he obeyed God when God told him to speak truth, then and that wicked man died in his sins, then the prohet was free of blood guilt and the sin remained on the wicked man's soul alone. It would be easier for me to say nothing, but out of compassion (truly and sincerely) I say again: turn around; try just ONE more time. Please.

Az: Purity cannot be compromsied. Pure water is NOT pure even with a tiny bit of pollution in it. Stop settling for contaminated water; seek something truly pure. I'm sorry you had bad experiences with the Catholic church. I think they would have killed Jesus too had He came at the time when they were at the hight of their power. Wolves in sheeps' clothing is the phrase that comes to mind. Sorry for that. Let's "reconcile" cyber speakingly.

@CnN
You end your comment to Kibuuka by saying: "No Killing, Please". But then you support the killing of Bin Laden and Gaddafi even though you DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE what went on between the US and those men.
Weapons of Mass destruction are often times words.
az

His Forever
- 06/19/2011 at 17:00

Az: You are one of the oddest thinking people I've met here. Killing a homosexual because of his lifestyle choices and taking out a terrorist that is ACTIVELY plotting your death (yours and mine) are two ENTIRELY different things.

You never answered my question, what would YOU have us do with Bin Laden and Gaddafi? Please tell me, rather than criticizing me. Seriously, I want to know. You chide others for criticizing people that disagree with them, but you've done a whole lot against me lately. Not very consistent of you.

Charles B.

Guest
- 06/19/2011 at 17:33

I rather be "odd" than be "even" even though life forces me to be both.
I am number 1 and every one else is number 2 which makes me number 2 to all the 1s out there..

I got to wonder how can i level with you so we are in harmony?

You see i suspect Charles you are a very good person. I imagine you being a generous husband, a loving father and a helpful neighbour. But when it comes to spirituality you give all your powers away, you get on your knees, you close your eyes and instead of trusting the one inside of you, you give it all to follow orders from the order.
That is where you lose track. You seem to think that to be a good person "the chosen", one has to have a Christians GOD dangling a Jesus carrot in order to have your ticket to paradise.
If only you could get rid of the carrot you would see that GOD is in the mirror.

For what i know, from what i hear and read, Gaddafi and Bin Laden may have been tools for the US Gov to scare the s*** out of their own US citizen and keep them praying or shopping (new form of sunday churchping) to make their life better.

az

Guest
- 06/19/2011 at 17:37

I dont' know why my reply is gone to moderation.
az

AlfBeta
- 06/20/2011 at 19:11

[quote]Weapons of Mass destruction are often times words.[/quote]
That's a knowledge I'd like to see spread as fast as a Gaddafi rumour.

On subject of indistinct photos,(btw it's not a beret,but a Greek fisherman's cap backwards, tho I've never caught a single greek fish in my life, so far...even if I were to go to Greece, I would still have to take up fishing in order to get it all working out, so... change of hat) new distinct photo coming right up. **wonders, has she organised all these photos on forum to her satisfaction? **

Guest
- 06/20/2011 at 21:12

@AlfBeta
you teasing me?
When i realized you had a beret looking hat , i couldn't keep it in. Your pick is Ok that way.
az

AlfBeta
- 06/21/2011 at 18:27

@az
Yes I was amusing myself, and hoped to amuse you too, and I already thought my pic was too grey!

Guest
- 06/21/2011 at 20:24

Now watch yourself soon you going to think it's too blue! lol

What is that? A charcoal canister? A lamp in your living room window? A hat? A sculpture?
az

lol @ christians being persecuted. christians are one of the biggest groups on earth and get pretty much everything they want.

i want to know where you get your view that homosexuality is so wrong. what part of the bible do you use to justify that? is it just from the old testament?

His Forever
- 06/19/2011 at 17:07

Epic: You're far too intelligent to really believe what you just said; surely you know that Christians world-wide are persecuted and killed by the hundreds if not the thousands yearly. China and African Muslim countries torture and kill thousands yearly and in the West, the only minority you can badmouth in public WITHOUT fear of reprisal are Christians, and that's the truth. When was the last time the ACLU brought a lawsuit against someone teaching kids that God is dead or that homosexuality and transgenderism is perfectly acceptable? Never happens, but let a validictorian want to pray or mention God in her well-desirved speech, and they sue her and the school! Now THAT'S absolute discrimination.

Romans chapter one is a New Testament Scripture that forbids homosexuality. It's not just an Old Testament concept.

Achems_Razor
- 06/20/2011 at 16:53

@C_and_N:

Good grief Charles! you calling @Epicurus: ignorant??

That is almost like a blasphemy!

Will gleefully wait with anticipation for the response!

Hesusa
- 06/18/2011 at 00:13

Charles I would like to ask you to reread your post and tell us again if you are serious. Trying to save us... LMAO You are tripping on a lie.

His Forever
- 06/19/2011 at 17:11

Yes, I'm serious. Very.

Guest
- 06/19/2011 at 19:34

@CnN
You are serious with Jesus. If you back away and let Jesus be equal to all, not above, you will see that *what you like in him you like in you* and that "the sins are what you are made to dislike about you" it is just a mirror the religion has given you for a dimension. Crack the egg, it's time for liberation. You are good, you don't need religion to tell you so or how.

"Walk the talk so you can talk the walk"
i

In other words as you live, live by your words so when you talk about your philosophy, you show for it.
az

Guest
- 06/19/2011 at 19:45

@CnN
The ego is a fence that keeps you from jumping away from the things you take for granted.
The key to the ego is locked in the silvery part of a mirror. A reflection that brings one to a self realizationship both physically and spiritually.
Eye gazing in a mirror is the fastest growing form of meditation. It is slowly replacing praying.
Try it.
It is of no religion yet, let's keep it that way!
It cost no tuition, everyone has a mirror, you chose your time, it regenerates!
You may even find the missing link.
az

Guest
- 06/19/2011 at 19:18

@CnN
You seem to think you are a good person because you "have" Jesus and his GOD.
I think you have Jesus and his GOD because you are a good person. You would be an even better person if you also had equal amount of the best of Mohamed and his Allah, Buddha and his awakened one, Krishna and his supreme being and possibly Jah and his Rastafarian mouvement...to name a few.
I also have the idea that you would be an even super better person if in seeing the differences between them you would also realize that in their best expression they are very similar, almost identical. You do not need to clamp on one particular religion to find your true self, you need to let go of all of them and see that at a distance they feed better a sense of union, altruism, kindness and healthy freedom.
It is Ok to be spiritual if it makes you realize that GOD is your expression of Union in every thing you do, say, give or take.
As i wrote before, God may just be a pool of good actions, while evil is a pool of bad reactions.
The right reactions will change the world for the better
faster than the right actions.
As i say on myspace
*today is the first day of the new renewing itself"
"i am a bit of everyone in different degrees"
I'd like to meet "the real me and the real you of you and me after before"
az

0zyxcba1
- 06/20/2011 at 11:52

@Azilda, I now have an Avatar, per your request.
:-*

@Azilda, I now have an Avatar, per your request.
:-*

I'm leaning forward at my computer screen. Can you see me aright, or should I try something else? I have almost no current pics, at all. This one was taken last year with a webcam.

Guest
- 06/20/2011 at 15:15

@Ozyxcba1
I wasn't asking for the real person. LOL, a colourful front would have been OK
Yes this pic will do. You are now the grey man with NO beret! lol
I noticed ALf Beta is now a grey man with the beret!
It will now be easier to find you as i am scrolling down.
Merci beaucoup!
az

edited: now you'r talking! I like Ché Mouse, it gives speed to the search!

His Forever
- 06/20/2011 at 16:04

Az, as politely as I can be and still be honest, that doctrine of there is good in all religions is a highway to Hell, my friend. That simple is not true; Jesus said bluntly, "I am the way the truth and the life, no man [or woman] comes to the Father, but through me." There is one way. Period. I'd give you a link to a Sid Roth episode where the guest speaker came out of the New Age movement (of which you are in very much so), and he says that he believed totally the same way you do now until God changed his heart. I'll send you a link if you'll watch it. If not interested, then as always, peace to you.

Charles B.

Guest
- 06/20/2011 at 16:38

To the thousands of link you could send me to convince me to accept your indoctrination i say:
I believe you believe in this stuff...you don't need to prove it to me.
A life lived following in the old footsteps of a ghost(Jesus) is not for me.

Imagine if your Jesus was to come back as you expect him to, but in a different package than expected and said to you:
"I am the way the truth and the life, no man [or woman] comes to the Father, but through me." You would say to this man or woman ...leave me alone go on with your life, i have the real Jesus. "There is one way. Period"

You would not trust a new Jesus but you trust one you never saw, never talked to, never heard live, never even read one word from...a Jesus that was given to you by a bunch of translators!
az

Achems_Razor
- 06/20/2011 at 17:13

You are right, nothing is as it seems, even by the shear act of thinking about the (unobserved) past as a person thinks as real, the (ghost Jesus) you effectively change the past, according to the laws of probabilities, (quantum mechanics)

"Stephen Hawking"

His Forever
- 06/21/2011 at 10:23

Az, Yet, you've not yet addressed my question about how you would have dealt with Bin Laden and others like him after extensively ridiculing me for my honest assessment of the situation. I would really like an answer to that; straitforward without all the flowery stuff. Please.

Secondly, When you embrase everything as truth, then you embrase nothing at all. You gave a hypothetical situation where Jesus came again and introduced himself in a different form than before and you think I would reject him. Absolutely. But, let me ask you this, if you go beyond perfection, like in surgery, etc. it's no longer "perfect" Why just cut out this cancerous tumor? Let's cut out this part and that part too! The analogy is so silly and that is how I feel aboout your analogy as well. Paul wrote that even "an angel of light" should give any other Gospel to what has already been delievered, then he was of a cursed nature and not to be believed.

Lastly, I'm sick so I'm may or may not log back on for the next few days, but let me ask you this: What would it take for you to acknowledge one standard of 'TRUTH" that is not diluted or polluted by other philosphy? What would Jesus have to do to make Himself real to you and dispell all the other shadow psudo-truths that abounds in this world?

Peace to you,

Charles B.

Guest
- 06/21/2011 at 16:13

@CnN
The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times. (Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; John 14:1-3; Acts 1:9-11; Matt. 24:14; Rev. 1:7; Matt. 24:43, 44; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; 2:8; Rev. 14:14-20; 19:11-21; Matt. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; 1 Thess. 5:1-6.)". I copied and pasted THIS because i don't care to know the bible by heart. Now how is that for division? IT IS AT THE VERY HEART OF IT. That gets rid of everyone who does not OBEY Christianity. Bingo for CnN!

"Judaism is sometimes against the idea of his Second Coming. Many Jews believe that Jesus failed to fulfill specific Messianic prophecies. They often claim that, among other things, Jesus' death and failure to redeem the world after his first coming are proof that he could not be the Messiah. Rabbi David Wolpe believes that the Second Coming was "grown out of genuine disappointment" and invented by Christians to theologically compensate for Jesus' death."

"In the tradition of the Gnostic Gospels, the book offers a mystical interpretation of the Second Coming in which it is understood to be an inner experience, something that takes place within the individual heart."

My position is one closer to the gnostic Gospels, the "second coming" is something that can take place within the individual heart, not one attached and emprisonned by a religion. It is the self realizing that no GOD is outside of any of us. God is you, me and everyone of us. If anything the second coming is when finally we accept and say "I am GOD" and 6 billion people say "We are GOD", the world is GOD, the earth is GOD, the cosmos is GOD, a new born is GOD, GOD is the world experiencing itself, no more stories from the past, let's write a new one for the future. Imagine, just imagine 6 billion people putting their knowledge together instead of putting their religion together!
Quantum sciences, a group of science half science, half re-legion growing faster than muslim, catholic, christian, buddhism or any other religion. This is because it rest upon the best thinkers of our time, the scientists and all of us around them.
That will be a Stand UP comedy scrawl when humanity finally becomes proud to laugh at one self. A world that was so ready to see the worst and so slow to accept the best. Is the verb about to take it's real tense? Yes if we Walk the talk!

That is how We will find our way into knowing GOD.
GOD can be what it has never been.
The dot on all the i
az

Guest
- 06/21/2011 at 16:15

@CnN
Jesus cannot be real unless your mind makes him be.
I, on the other hand, am very real and unreal at the same time, when my mind makes me be.
az

0zyxcba1
- 06/21/2011 at 17:06

@ Azilda,

Az, you know, your posts are even better than your earlier ones. They just keep getting better and better, and more relevant, too.

I like reading them, a lot.

I think you come through best when your tone is serious.

Guest
- 06/21/2011 at 19:03

@Ozyxcba1 (may i call you Oz...lol)
I know my posts are getting more focused, as in photography i shoot quite a few "out of focus" shots, full of mouvement, colours, sort of free flow that end's up looking more like a painting than a photo of a subject as if Energy (the moving body or moving element) was being painted with colors and caught on pixels.

So were my earlier words, out of focus in the view of many(still are to some) but from the same origin, i.

I often then, copied and pasted extracts of a book i write, a 40 pages poetry otogeography. It is a ring of love in the way that it starts with the words am i and reaches i am, then it keeps rolling on itself (imagine a ring). It is a game i play with myself. I can and do correct the book anywhere in between but i have to leave the beginning and the end intact so they stay connected. Birth and Death, in between life itself!
The pages are sometimes printed on acetate sheet and i can read them over a mirror, I can pull a sheet and place it on the mirror of the bathroom as a reminder of a message from my Self to myself.
It is my bable, and it contains as much in the space as it does in the words. I have to agree with the words for them to be there, but i have no expectation from the spaces. They can develop into anything we agree my Self and i.
I started writing the book in 1992, it has grown like a child full of life knowledge. The book is a never ending story, it will end with me. At one time the following words were in it, near the beginning, i have kept a few back copies, nice way to be introspect. There are no longer any space between any lines...a long phrase of i

a readdaer read
dearrear readdaer
re-read
if you wish
here is a dune of words
a very minimal part of what there is
i wrote a game of many words
a game with infinity on each side
that is ss.swords.ss of love
words of sand materiel
for an O game
black on white
it is the most beautiful story
i have read
of course i am bias
i wrote it myself
knowing i would one day
fly to heaven on wings
of the most beautiful creature
on earth
me as my GOD
GO'd is Existence (and i like to play with words)
is me who does not exist (that's intuition)
Let's say, my posts are getting more descriptive and less intuitive. It was needed in order to broaden my appreciation of a few new friends and some to become.
az

Guest
- 06/21/2011 at 17:08

@CnN
as i wrote below or above depending on the order:
"You end your comment to Kibuuka by saying: "No Killing, Please". But then you support the killing of Bin Laden and Gaddafi even though you DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE what went on between the US and those men. Weapons of Mass destruction are often times words."

you asked: how i would have dealt with Bin Laden and Gaddafi and others like him?

The same way i did, i realize i do not know the whole story and possibly never will, therefore i do not support the killing of men (who at one time were friends to the US) based on the opinion and words of the US Government and their interests. If anything Bush could have killed himself if he wanted justice, even there i have no real opinion.
WE DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE, the stories are too murky with oil, history and religions ! In a court of law that means acquitted, in my court of law that means, i don't trust the present system, "nolo contendere".
az

AlfBeta
- 06/20/2011 at 18:41

Charles, I'm pretty sure you say up there that a true muslim would eradicate you for being christian. That doesn't inspire faith in your perceptions of truth!

His Forever
- 06/21/2011 at 09:05

A fully practicing Muslim that strictly follows the tennets of their religion are ordered to kill all "infidels" wherever they find them. The world "true" there, as in "true Muslim" is loosely used and does not imply God's unchanging ultimate "truth" just their level
of dedication to their idiologies.

AlfBeta
- 06/21/2011 at 11:10

@ C&N "infidels" didn't include "people of the book" Hence no muslim could repay in kind the "christian" soldiers actions in M.E. by urinating etc on the bible. Or burning it.

It's true they have issues with what they consider the doctrinal deviation of equating His Holiness Yeshua the Anointed with The Creator.

Also muslims (for reasons only partly to do with the usual hazards of translation, which I will skip for brevity's sake) don't regard any translation from the Arabic as being 'The Qur'an', which is why, whenever produced by a muslim, such texts are entitled "A Translation of ..." etc.

But unless you read Arabic, it may yet be worth you consulting your translation-of-qur'an for some context to your assertion.

Hesusa
- 06/21/2011 at 13:42

C&N what I find hard to swallow are your double standards. To which you seam blissfully ignorant. First you condem homosexuals and other groups to death that are not right with your god without hesitation and than whine to the rest of us how Muslims would rub you out if they had the chance.

They have as much right hating you as you have the right to hate/condemn ANYONE else.

Also saying that moderate Muslims that would not kill you are a watered down version of devout believers again just highlites your double standards. Just how many things from your holy book do you ignore? My guess is more than you follow. As I recall many verses incite believers to murder for one rediculous reason or another. By now you probably came across at least a few people that would deserve a swift knife to the throat or a stone or two according to your devine creator.

So how many lived? All? I am dissapointed. I thought we had a true follower of Christ among us.

Guest
- 06/23/2011 at 18:01

@CnN
A fully practicing Christian that strictly follows the words of the bible are made to believe that all infidels will die in hell. They don't have to (although many did) get their hands dirty, God will take care of the dirty job at the end!
You write these things and don't realize that they apply to your own religion in a very similar way, "same same but different"
Be the butterfly in your hand, free flowing, no sins, just a dancing individual allowing all individuals in the dance.
az

0zyxcba1
- 06/21/2011 at 15:09

@ C_and_N

I do not have a 'Gay Lifestyle'. I am gay, and I have a lifestyle.

My brother is straight with a wife and is the father of two lovely nieces of mine. My brother's 'lifestyle' includes boating and fishing and hiking and being a good father. My brother's 'lifestyle' is not his heterosexuality!

My sister is straight, too, and her unfortunate lifestyle is nursing her husband who is dying from Alzheimers. This critically ill man, my brother in law, is heterosexual(surprise! surprise!) and his 'lifestyle' is not his heterosexuality! At the moment, my brother-in-law's 'lifestyle' is 'dying', which is the 'lifestyle' I wished you had.

You suffer from a desperate desire to be 'the persecution Christian', tainted by a most peculiar mesianic complex. Any opposition to your faithstyle is considered by you the promise of persecution.

Get over it!

By the way, CN, any overt opposition to my right to be how and who and what I am will be met not with a 'complex' but, rather, with the 2nd Amendment to such extent as may be necessary.

There is no such thing as 'The Gay Lifestyle', and you know it! It is a term used in advertizing, beginning in 1961, to market products targeted at comsumers based upon age and personality types. Lifestyle marketing was the brainchild of Daniel Yankrlovich of DYG, Inc., a market research firm, tracking social trends.

'The Gay Lifestyle' exists only in the minds of religious conservatives who, like you, will not let go of the taunt because you and yours want to be able to say that 4000 young men have been executed in Iran because they CHOSE a 'lifestyle' that they knew at once was illegal, and a capital offence.

You don't care.

You and your kind are part of the reason things like this can go that far: your 'Superstition of CHOICE' is all you care about. Your religion is safe so long as being gay is a choice. THAT is all you care about. You hate everything and everybody, save your sick relgion. Your religion! Your religion! Your religion! You care about nothing and nobody save your religion.

Your religion makes me puke.

According to you, and your murderous religion, young men CHOOSE to be gay so that they can then be executed for loving each other. Nice God-the-Father you got, there, and an even nicer Jesus who just loves those dead gays, even in their sin.

Puke! Puke! You make me puke.

'Lifestyle' is a term used in marketing and has nothing in particular to do with sexual orientation. You know this, of course, but persist in misusing the term, anyway. You, CN, have no feelings and no life outside your stultifying religion, which is the only thing you care about. No one could ever kill you, CN: you're already dead.

I hold these truths to be self evident:

1. Behavior is sometimes subject to choice.
2. Desire is not.

@C_and_N, you're dead.

His Forever
- 06/23/2011 at 02:42

Oz, Sorry for the late reply from e-mail:

You said concerning homosexuality:

"I hold these truths to be self evident:

1. Behavior is sometimes subject to choice.
2. Desire is not."

Ok. Granted. I truly understand that, but we are still always responsible for our actions, not our desires. I might have the desire to committ adultry on my wife, or steal from the neighbor, but folling my desire to do so is sin. Period. I would still be accountable for the desires I follow out that become "behavior".

As far as fostering the desires in our mind, I think it was Martin Luther that said that you cannot keep the birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from nesting in your hair! All righteous living takes effort as sin, for all of us in some way, it NATURAL to us.

Peace to you,

Charles B.

Guest
- 06/14/2011 at 22:24

@ Ozyxcba 1 - The end of INTOLERANCE will mark the birth of the best in civilization, as it always has. Finely crafted remarks unfortunately do not always equate to truth, however pretty and clever they may be, or however much we may want them to. I am not at all religious, but I have to suppose that the reality here on Earth is much more complicated than you suggest, however much I personally may be in favor of it. Atheism cannot equal peace, as long as human nature remains what it is. People and nations are going to be bashing one another's heads in over natural resources, a lust for power, common jealousy, etc., for a very long time to come, unless this world finally understands that maybe it might be better to start out, as much as possible, from a basis of love for one's fellow man, mutual respect, and, above all, a willingness to settle disputes without violence, if at all possible. Your statement would be more accurate if you said that atheism USUALLY equals peace, and with that I could completely agree. But don't be such a fanatic, or you may shoot yourself in the foot! Some people will probably always need the solace of faith, whereas others can make it through their lives just fine without it. As long as neither party is infringing on the rights of the other, I don't see that it's any of our business to tell either one that it is wrong, regarding this particular thing. The persecution of homosexuals in any form is an example of the worst in humanity, and a symptom of extremism and a lack of love and sense. Just take care that your anger over the stupidity, cruelty, and intolerance you see around you don't lead to those of your own, and remember that, if we are to survive, we have to live in a plural world. Fight by a good, rational example! Making a blanket statement that leaves out the reasonable observation that humanity tends to violence with or without a religious basis will ultimately make your position untenable, and hence not something the majority would be willing to adopt.

@Pysmythe, you are correct. There is more to peace than atheism
(with the possible exception of the Middle East).
a t h e i s m = p e a c e
is but a slogan, and you know it. Get rid of religion, and horrors
descend from a hundred-and-one all the way down to a hundred.

Religion is like smallpox. It can be eradicated. And education is the inoculation: mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology, philosophy
(with emphasis on ethics), languages, literature, poetry, music, art
and, not least, more than a little history.

At present, these 'persons', know only how to wallpaper sites with
cut-and-pastes of their camel-herder 'scripture'. These 'persons' are ignorant. And proud of it!

Do not think for one instant I have not presented precise, rational thoughts amenable to logical debate. I have. Those who are receptive make up the choir. The remaining are interested in nothing but taunting and provoking(I do not turn the other cheek).

I am human and can take only so much.

All of these 'persons' are religious conservatives who have already made up their 'minds' and are interested in nothing but a steady drum-beat of 'gay is a choice'-'gay is a choice'-'gay is a choice', with all the implicit cultural, political, legal, and economic, unjust consequences that go hand in hand with such 'marketing'(when let to go unchallenged).

These 'persons' present no point of view.
These 'persons' present a declaration of faith.

Telling these 'persons' what they are, and why they are what they are,
and insulting their inherently insulting superstitions, cannot make matters worse as matters have been dragged down, by these 'persons', down to absolute zero.

And I have had nothing to do with it. These 'persons' were killing us long before I was born and they will be killing us long after I am dead.

The least bad thing that can be done('good' is not an option) is to let these 'persons' know that they are seen for what they are: 'persons' who would gladly volunteer for the executioner's firing squads.

These 'persons' smell and their faith-based epistemology positively stinks!
Faith is worse than war, because with faith one is powerless to negotiate.

Perhaps I should ignore these 'persons'. But that, too, has been tried, with no effect, and not just by me.

These 'persons' go out of their way to push their religious agenda at sites, like this; sites chosen specifically because they document, describe and depict, not only hate directed against gays, but also violence perpetrated against gays, state sponsored executions of gays, torturing of gays and the dying and death of gays.

These 'persons' happily watch these barbarous displays while passing the popcorn and exchanging tasteless 'jokes' about those they see being massacred. You don't believe me? Read their comments(if you can keep from vomiting!).

These 'persons' come to these sites to smirk and smugly declare their 'faith' that being gay is a 'choice' and thus a 'sin' to be 'tolerated'.

Religion is a timebomb.

I once taunted a Roman Catholic priest with the quip:Burned any witches, lately?!

The priest retorted:
"You can't be serious. The Church stopped that hundreds of years ago."

My aggravated final word:No! You never stopped! People like me put a STOP to people like you!

We did. And we can do it again.

I know that you think you are trying to be helpful: it takes far less effort to address one person, me, than to address many socially well secured pigs; but maybe you should give it a try. See how far you get (lol)!

Guest
- 06/14/2011 at 18:19

The problem with the world is that SEX or the expression of one's sexual energy is still condemned if it's NOT:
Man on top, woman under, mouth to mouth, penis to vagina, close to same age, 16yrs old minimum, behind closed doors, and played when "in love" only.

Sexual energy is the strongest energy humans and animals possess. Only the "rider" can pull on the rein or whip it to run wild and free.

The expression of one's sexual energy is condemned by religion in order to harness its power. Religion declares all sex to be mortally sinful.

And even if one does not believe this to be so; even if one has seen the man behind the curtain(as I have); one still must try to survive and to find fulfillment and happiness in a paradigm in which everything is shaped by religion's control over our sexual energy and by the fear and anxiety that control inevitably fosters.

Religion declares ALL sex sinful and then doles out the exceptions, on its terms. This is why religion is so powerful. Religion has hijacked sex. And, Azilda, as you so eloquently pointed out:

"Sexual energy is the strongest energy humans and animals possess."

This power is now religion's power over us. The only question should be:

How do we crush religion and take back from it that which is already ours?

Do not say it cannot be done. Do not say that it is futile. That is religion's propaganda. Humanity wiped out smallpox from the face of the Earth. We can wiped out religion, too -- if we want to(and that is a monumental 'IF').

But it CAN be done.

I've already started.

Join me!

Guest
- 06/15/2011 at 17:15

I am from the late 50s. I have started a long time ago. You have joined me in your own way, but we dance (not march) differently.
I often get the idea you are angry, it's your right. I don't know your life, i don't know your mind, i don't know you.
I know me.
I agree with a lot of what you say, i accasionally disagree with the way you say it. But that is your right, doesn't make it my wrong. It is just an other way to full self realization.
I do not condemn the positive morals and values that come from spirituality, i do turn away from the indoctrination, knowing that people who recite have had it pounded in their head when they were really young...and haven't yet freed themself.
These people may or may not change their minds but i am not concerned with them, i rather exchange my energy with the ones that are searching in the cosmos, in a petri dish, in the bright sunshine, in the dark of the night and in the eyes of compassion.
I engage against the fighting, not with a flag of alliance but with a kite of freedom.
az

Guest
- 06/15/2011 at 17:32

and concerning sex, i agree with this:
"The expression of one's sexual energy is condemned by religion in order to harness its power. Religion declares all sex to be mortally sinful." (or mandatory)

I know about this, i was born in Quebec, where catholicism was prevalent. Unprotected sex was mandatory in those days for women. I was lucky to be born in a free home. Although my dad was of a family of 13 kids (i have 78 cousins just on his side), my mom had 3 kids and every one of us were wanted. She never accepted to bow to that shite.
Sex has always been celebrated for it's beauty in my home and when i had my first piece of IT, it was no different, and so was it for my own daughters.

But yes Sex is at the base of Religions control of the mass. They either push it on you or try to refrain your personal energy.
az

0zyxcba1
- 06/16/2011 at 06:19

@ Azilda, I don't know what to say. I've almost forgotten how to agree(lol). Thanks(really!) for going the extra mile together with AR&Jack in what amounts to a joint-effort at educating Kibuuka. No longer do I seem alone. Btw, I, too, was raised Catholic:
12 years parochial schools, one year of which(aged 13) was spent cloistered studying to become a priest of the Redemptorist Order. I do not know you, nor you me; nonetheless, for my part, I feel we might be moving toward cyber-friendship. :-))

His Forever
- 06/16/2011 at 17:27

No, sex was God's idea in the first place. Sex, in the right place and between the right people (in marriage) is sinless, and God made it pleasurable on purpose. Satan has hijacked sex, not religion. You have your understanding of the world completely backwards.

Az: Our strongest power is not sex. A 90 year old woman or man of God that can no longer have sex can still pray a prayer as powerful as any force in Heaven or Earth. Sex will one day cease to exist entirely while the soul that loves God will be eternal. There are far greater powers we possess than the temperal miniscule powers of sex.

Blessings!

Charles B.

Guest
- 06/16/2011 at 21:16

@CnN you say: "sex was God's idea in the first place. Sex, in the right place and between the right people (in marriage) is sinless, and God made it pleasurable on purpose. Satan has hijacked sex, not religion. You have your understanding of the world completely backwards."

I do have my idea backwards...i am reuniting with the true self that i am.
In my mind humans went from no religion to a complete control over the people by congregations.
It took eons, although it seemed to have happened very rapidly in the last few centuries, but religion took over!
We are now going back to a "no religion"time, it did not work. The world needs to change. Wars are DIRECTLY connected to Religions which are connected to Power which are connected to Control which are connected DIRECTLY to Wars.
Humanity needs a change. Humanity is self healing the negative influence religion has had on the flow of energy on earth. It has gone way too far.
Thanks to the Hyppie culture we rest on. It is a time of self spirituality, no more sheeps, no more walking behind "impossible", no more defined GOD, just free flowing individual ones, millions of ones.

One can search one's "sleep time" where the non material GOD may be omnipresent, not in old raped books, not from a priest on a podium, but inside of yourself. Even religion has been pointing at you being GOD and you don't even see it!
Let science find what is in the natural world, they have been doing a great job at it! Cooperate in the search, you don't have to have a degree to have ideas, feel free (from religion rules), and let your brain expand (physically according to science).
az

Guest
- 06/19/2011 at 16:19

@Ozyxcba1
a little suggestion:
Would you mind puting an avatar under your name? I am sure you can find a photo shot that best represents your position. It help when one scrolls down looking for a particular opinion.
Plus you are no ordinary "grey man with a beret".

please often ends in thank you.
az

His Forever
- 06/19/2011 at 17:25

Yes, an avitar would be nice. Az has her "peace" sign; I have my butterfly which sybolizes "new birth," Epic has Darwin, and Razor has that exceedingly creepy blue thing from another planet (liked the movie, however)! So, what would symbolize your life philosophy?

Guest
- 06/20/2011 at 07:54

@Ozyxcba1
nice tile Mr.Ozy
az

Kibuuka
- 06/15/2011 at 12:13

the fact is, HOMOSEXUALITY IS EVIL AND ITS DUE TO SUCH THAT SODOM AND GOMORAH ANCIET CITIES WERE DESTROYED BY GOD. so if you dont want to enter hell when you die, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and be born again.bible says "all people who practice things such as these will not have part in the kingdom of God" so think about this dear

0zyxcba1
- 06/15/2011 at 13:34

@ Kibuuka, go away!

Jack1952
- 06/15/2011 at 13:43

That is the most immoral aspect of Christianity. You either accept Jesus or go to eternal damnation. For eternity. If you took every grain of sand off every beach in the world and lined them up end to end the very first grain of sand would represent your life. The rest would represent the time spent in hell fire. None of us can imagine the immensity of eternity. Worse yet, the Bible suggests that those in heaven will be witness to the suffering of those in hell. That anyone could watch their own family members and close friends being tortured and still believe that they are in heaven would have to be the most sadistic of individuals. I can understand some of the comforting aspects of religion but I absolutely abhor the zeal you demonstrate when you threaten ordinary people with damnation. That attitude sickens me.

Achems_Razor
- 06/15/2011 at 16:08

Get your facts straight man, your Jesus himself was a gay man.
Jesus was gay and spoke positively of homosexual acts.
Read St. Marks gospel, and John 21:20, plus many other inclusions.

Guest
- 06/15/2011 at 16:28

@Kibuuka
I have thought about this for about half a second.
What you claim does not come from you, it comes from your indoctrination.There was a time when you were free, long long ago. But that choice was taken from you by the church. You are not responsible, when you were a very young man many people pounded this shite in your head, hammered it there while you were forming ideas, and to this day you still think it's right. Release all ideas of hatred and you will walk towards freedom.
You are a fine exemple of what religion does to someone who follows the pack with your eyes closed, pulled by a hand holding a bible and a crucifix.
az

His Forever
- 06/16/2011 at 17:00

Mr. Razor: Jesus was not a homosexual. John 21:20 is one of my most favorite verses in the Bible! 20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”)

John lay on Jesus chest at the Last Supper, yes. It was a culturally acceptable show of mutual love, but it wasn't' a homosexual act. It was probably pretty common to do so as their tables were built only one foot off the ground at the time.

In China, men hold hands as they walk and women hold hands too. When I was there, I was going to give an adult married male friend a lowfive, and he didn't understand and held my hand when I smacked it, and we walked down the road together hand in hand all the way home. I couldn't bring myself to explain that wasn't my intention at such a sincere show of friendship.

Peace to you,

Charles B.

His Forever
- 06/16/2011 at 17:16

Jack1952: You said that so well! I think that when we get to Heaven (you must have had some church background to hear that esoteric point), I do think we can see the judgment of God upon those in Hell. However, the time will come when God Himself will wipe all tears from our eyes, as it says, and there will be no more sorrow or pain. We'll understand fully the reasons for each and every person that did not make Heaven their home. We may even get to see each person's judgment first (as time will no longer be a hinderance there). The reason for the length of the damnation of Hell is simple: Heaven is forever; the rejection of such must also be eternal, as the soul is eternal. The simple solution is that you choose now where you will spend the rest of eternity.

Az: Why do you think religious people with firm convictions are blinded or deluded from their church backgrounds? I'm going through life with my eyes wide open. I choose to actively be free and follow what I believe to be truth. Truth IS freedom, and Truth is only found in Christ Jesus. Homosexuality is a sin, like all other sins, that should be repented of, not embrased. It's not worse than lying, stealing, and cheating on your wife with other women. You fall; you get back up. You sin; you repent. When you fall, you shouldn't wallow there in the mud and the mire. To love truth and purity is not "hatred" ---- it's wisdom.

May God bless the missionaries that speak the truth rather than capitulating to the filthmongers that say we must embrase a deviant and sinful lifestyle as ok. I'm just telling it like it is.

With love and peace,

Charles B.

Guest
- 06/17/2011 at 16:21

@CnN
Here's a question.
If a guest was to bring a gay person to a diner at your place and you found out, how would you treat that person?
Would you allow him in your house near your kids?
Would you preach him about sin?
Would you be curious about his possible wonderful life?
How would you behave in front of your GOD?
az

Guest
- 06/17/2011 at 18:10

@Kibuuka
Christian congregations have raped the ancient values of Africans and left them declining on their knees...It is a shame! The same way it is a shame Europeans have raped the ancient value of Indians people of North America.
Will we ever try to gain from the ones closest to earth instead of asking them to look at a GOD in a book.
az

Guest
- 06/16/2011 at 18:25

@CnN
You say: To love truth and purity is not "hatred" ---- it's wisdom.

I say: To love what you consider "your wisdom" is to hate anyone that doesn't fit it. What if your Jesus was gay? Would that take his right actions to hell?

This month you have personally hung Gaddafi, Bin Laden, and emprisoned all gays. All this based on things you think are truth and purity.

And then you sign
Peace to You
Who is you, the man you look at in the mirror??????
az

His Forever
- 06/17/2011 at 15:45

I am a man of peace, Az, but I will not turn a blind eye to evil nor condone it nor not wish it to be gone from the face of the earth when we have a chose about it. Sin is sin. Why cannot I call it as it is? What would you have the world do with Bin Laden and Gaddafi? Nothing? If Bin Laden had his way, you'd be wearing a plum colored berka 24/7, Az. Would you not oppose that? Or do you just oppose Christians and others that do? That's a serious quesiton, by the way. I'm offended at your statements lately as well.

As far as homosexuals are concerned, practicing ones that are unrepentant shall indeed be lost in Hell. It's that simple. But I know personally those that have come out of that lifestyle, got married, have kids and have indeed lived YEARS without going back into that lifestyle with a happy God-fearing family. It IS possible, but nothing worth having is without a struggle.

Jesus was not gay. He was sinless--that was the whole purpose of His coming and dying on the cross. Sin, any sin at all, would have put Him in the same boat as the rest of us---- in need of redemption. You're facade is cracking, Az. Anyone can believe anything except truth, holiness, righteousness and faith in God in your eyes, I think. To ask if I would still accept Jesus if He were gay is fundamentally an absurd question as such is not even possible.

As always, in peace,

Charles B.

Guest
- 06/17/2011 at 16:13

@CnN
If you were truly a man of peace you would know there are not ONE WAY but millions.
I did wear a chador for a full month under my backpack so i could travel through Iran with respect for their ways, it brought me many invitation from women to enter their homes, where i was able to witness PEOPLE's differences.
May be the Gays that you know who came out of that "lifestyle" as you say, decided it is better to lie than to be procecuted. They are still gay inside, trapped in your world.
Jesus was everything according to you, as in being in the image of your GOD, therefore he was able to embody gay or lesbian for that matter or did he just represent men and not women?
The way you describe your Jesus, he knew it all!
Turn a blind eye, you may see better.
az

His Forever
- 06/17/2011 at 16:46

Az, there are millions of ways away from God, but only one true Way TO God, via Jesus Christ. One month as a traveler in Iran is NOT the same as being one of them permanently. Did you wear the chador out of respect really? Or fear? I'm nearly quite sure you'd not be allowed to go where you did without one. But, that is a good experience. I really liked the Muslim family that made me one of their extra large head coverings because I visited their restrant so often in China. I wore it too out of respect and honor to God when I was there.

Bluntly, however, Jesus cannot embody evil of any kind, Az. Homosexuality is evil, along with many other sins. You're reaching.

Guest
- 06/17/2011 at 17:12

Where did the millions find GOD before Jesus Christ? Or did GOD not exist before JC? How did JC find GOD?
And if Jesus what discovered to not have existed as a human but only as an idea(it may have already!), where would you start your search in finding him? Wouldn't you turn your house upside down, meaning your Self?
az

Guest
- 06/17/2011 at 17:16

I wore the chador knowing i wanted to reach out.
Not fear, anti fear.
Not judgement, curiosity.
Not Canadian, worldy.
az

His Forever
- 06/17/2011 at 16:55

Az, for goodness sake! You're really upset about this, aren't you? If you brought a gay man to my house for dinner, I'd make sure he was fed well in all possible ways, and depending on the situation may or may not address the issue you're trying to push on me. If he came to talk specificly about it, yes, I would tell him outrightly it was sin. If not, then we'd see. Good night.

Guest
- 06/17/2011 at 17:10

Good Morning Mr Charles.
No i am not upset, why would i be? Nothing you have said here makes much sense to me. I see division division division, where inside of me i make my best to reach union union union.
az

Achems_Razor
- 06/17/2011 at 17:04

@C_and_N:

So if a person is homosexual but does not practise homosexuality, then according to you, he can still go to your heaven? That Charles, really makes sense (NOT).

You should not put yourself in the predicament of thinking that you know how a homosexual should think or should act, you are not medically orientated in any aspect of psychology, or any other form of medicine, hormonal or otherwise, except in your religious meanderings which to me mean squat!!
You are digging yourself a hole!

FireBringer
- 05/06/2011 at 07:00

Oh....oh dear god. This is....terrible. This actually makes me ill to look at it..as well as really scared. I can't imagine what it must be like for a homosexual who saw this documentary. This is....just dispicable.

And as for Leviticus, it's basically a book with a thousand rules in it. 10 Commandments my ass; there were hundreds of them. Dear god, Moses must have camped up on the mountain for years getting all those rules! It's amazing people back then did anything without getting excecuted. I personally have found that the words in the Bible either went out of date 500 years ago, were never relavent in the first place, or will always be applicable to society. For instance, a lot of what Jesus said in the New Testament is genuinely good advice that isn't that complicated and we would all do well to keep in mind. However, this is the same book that pretty well says that you should be able to trade 2 camels and a donkey for a wife.

We can't keep operating like that, can we? I mean, who has camels these days?
And we can't just keep slaughtering people because a single passage the same book where A DONKEY TALKS TO A GUY (Seriously. Look it up) says to. We'd all get killed eventually.

I don't believe that there's anything wrong with being gay. They aren't corrupted, they aren't sick, they aren't 'broken', and they aren't sinners. Even if you do believe that, in which case I'm a little scared of you too, then surely you would at least admit that killing them or viciously persecuting them isn't any way to solve the problem. I think we can all agree that this is just dead, sick wrong.

And just wondering, do Ugandans not have a word in their own language for manure? I mean, it sounds a little out of place to have this big, passionate (albeit terrifying) speech, and then the preacher says 'poo-poo'.

Does anyone know if there's an aid organization that's helping to deal with this horrible thing?

I am gay.
When I lie with womankind, I snore.
When I lie with my boyfriend,... Well, that's privileged information.

Upshot?(no pun intended):
When I lie with 'mankind', I do NOT do so as I would with womankind(that's for damned sure!).

So, I'm safe.

As to the documentary, I won't watch it. I know it would be too much for me, and that's not because I'm some pansy. It's because I am a healthy human being and can tolerate just so much heartbreak before I break myself.

:-('

Kibuuka
- 06/15/2011 at 12:10

you need to repent boy, you are going to hell if you dont turn from this sinful act and follow after God's own true Jesus Christ. its time now to stop hiding behind certains. the fact is HOMOSEXUALITY IS EVIL AND ITS DUE TO SUCH THAT SODOM AND GOMORAH ANCIET CITIES WERE DESTROYED BY GOD. so if you dont want to enter hell when you die, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and be born again.bible says "all people who practice things such as these will not have part in the kingdom of God" so think about this dear

His Forever
- 06/16/2011 at 17:47

Firebringer: No, I don't think we should kill any homosexual based on the laws found in Leviticus. Lots of things were punishable by death back then, not just the sin of homosexuality.

But, let me ask you a serious question: I would ask you if you'd be equally outraged to lean how many Christians are tortured and killed worldwide DAILY and not just in Africa for thier faith. Thousands maybe? Me thinks not!

Ozyxba1: Don't let Satan steal your soul; sin is indeed pleasurable for a seaon, but the end eventually is indeed spiritual death. Resist sin with your whole heart and soul and mind. Sexual sin and temptation is not just your burden to deal with. It's difficult for most of us in one way or another. You have my compassion for your stuggles, but not my accpetance of your lifestyle.

Peace to you.

Charles B.

sillyhead
- 04/03/2011 at 09:39

Below is what this pastor needs to be focusing his energy on.

Uganda is a source and destination country for men, women, and children trafficked for the purposes of forced labor and sexual exploitation. Ugandan children are trafficked within the country for forced labor in the fishing, agricultural, and domestic service sectors, as well as for commercial sexual exploitation; they are also trafficked to other East African and European countries for the same purposes. Karamojong women and children are sold as slaves in cattle markets or by intermediaries and are subsequently forced into domestic servitude, sexual exploitation, cattle herding, and begging.
Human trafficking of Ugandan children for the forcible removal of body parts reportedly is widespread; so-called witchdoctors seek various body parts of live victims for traditional medical concoctions commonly purchased to heal illness, foster economic advancement, or hurt enemies. - U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June, 2009

the people of uganda have a primitive social system church and state working jointly in government and we know what byproduct that mix has always delivered. Injustice through greed and holier than though fueled by ignorance of the masses. These are the components by which pastor whatever his mane was can find his opportunity. The Americans left him an opportunity and he took it. He had the conditions as outlined above coupled with a presence a fame and a name that the people held of him. He could not ignore the topic after the buzz the Americans left. This pastor is on the churches side right? , but again There is no division of church and state they work together for a purpose. What is the purpose in Uganda. In every society the answer is always the same cash. Therefore in a government of church and state where does the pastor fit in the word cash. He fits somewhere although the cash may go to someone else. To the guys go do not make the video the guys behind the curtain Or as the pastor gets more popular and more donations come to his pocket

The doctrine is not of god as he teaches it. Surely homosexuality has the cloud of confusion pain and deception for a fingerprint but, the preaching of the pastor is darker that what he calls evil. God can speak to his children all by him self though a very still small voice more intimately than any man could pretend to do piercing our hearths. Racing our hands up and say halluluyas using loud voices and perform in a stage, showing pictures of porno is the craftiness of men with evil for a fingerprint.

That man is manipulating doctrine for designs of murder, that is not the gospel of Christ

About the Americans What are they doing in Africa spreading their inbred religious puke
for the one who is interviewed and wont take responsibility but blaming the lesser of two evils. He is right One of them is evil and he caused it. He is just demented and will have to answer for his foolishness at the last day.

For the rest is money opening a new market for selling books and stadium seats for all to see charlatans actors selling foolishness. Those charlatans would not go to Africa unless the y knew that seats can be sold there. How do they know it T.V ratings and book sales. Who placed the T.v Christian falce doctrine babble The Americans.....and who supplies the books..? the Americans. As I mentioned before it is always cash.

This is the Gospel of Christ: faith, repentance, baptism and the laying of the hands for the giving of the holy spirit, as well as the keeping of all his commandments until our last mortal gasp for air. And what is the point of all of that ...to pick up our eternal life exactly from whence we left our mortal but now no more able to repent having overcome all evils and temptations presented to us through our choices.

As twisted as the pastor doctrine is, it is true that it is conflict with the true doctrine of Christ. Yet the prayer of a gay individual is no less sincere than the one of a heterosexual

homosexuality is not a sickness it is not a condition it is simply an entanglement of those that strayed but a little and decided to look and ponder at the most dangerous of all the abyss. I know..... I did not look but I did ponder..for me a radio show was all it took for a battle to begin. A relentless evil pushed me to accept it for about a day. Never have I had something so relentless invade my mind with no recollection of my own. After some fighting for control recognizing it full well for what it was I have overcome I won that war and I am safe form fighting that same war because living the the Gospel of Christ protects me. That is the intent of the commandments to protect us all from straying away but choosing for our selves. This happen to me while I was married to my wife and four years latter we are still strong, I will not get into the details of our married sexual life for those of you who may have suspicions, but I will say this kicking and screaming and live it at that.

If your sexuality is homosexual or you can go either way this will be the hardest battle of your life. If you live with pornography and homosexuality the battle will be twice as hard for you and the same for every other thing or substance that may have polluted you. This thins dwell in the real of destruction by the laws of its master

They who chose to seek for their maker will dwell in a very different realm along with the laws of its master, one of those is protection trough following the words of Christ.
It is one or the other there is no in the middle. I hope this helps a little because so much
help you will need. This is going to be like climbing everest make no mistake about it
but so so very worth it.

if homosexuality brings with it the civilisation you are talking about, then God forbid it in our country. we would rathewr remain un civilised than tolerating that sinful act that takes all those that involve into it in hell for ever.Repent before God
kibs wilf

0zyxcba1
- 06/16/2011 at 21:09

@ Kibuuka

"if homosexuality brings with it the civilisation you are talking about,..."
And what civilization am I talking about?

"...then God forbid it in our country."
You have no evidence for the existence of god(s) and, in any case, I assure you, "it" is already there, in your country, and growing nicely!

"we would rathewr remain un civilised"
~ "we?" ~
And who might "we" be?
On whose behalf are you presuming to speak?
Are you speaking on behalf of all of your compatriots?
Have you received from them their permission to do so?
Or are you Queen?

"...than tolerating that sinful act..."
Could you be more 'specific'?

"...that takes all those that involve into it in hell for ever..."
Sweetheart, lighten up. There ain't no god. There ain't no hell.
Repeating over and over again that there are, ain't going to make it so!

"Repent before God"
Now, you're issuing orders!
You MUST be Queen!
Stop telling me what to do!
I do not take orders, even from queens!

And now for my two cents:
you come across, from your postings, as the typical Christian:
- Ignorant.
- Proud to be ignorant.
- Judgmental.
- Authoritarian.
- Sure of yourself for no good reason whatever.
- Determined to have everyone hopping to your tune.

Peddle it elsewhere!

migrantworker
- 02/20/2011 at 01:04

T, lol!

The rest of you: Live and let live. I have never heard of a violent and oppressive homosexual regime, and have never heard a tale of gays killing in the name of being gay. Leave these people be, and quit making them scapegoats and second-class citizens.
Religious Zealots, regardless of what faith, are the scariest people on the globe. Wish they would find some free thinking before its too late for the rest of us.

leaving these people be is defying God's law. Ugandan people will never ever let this happen. this is God's land and chosen country. we will kill the practitioners of homosexuality if they dont repent and leave this sin they do. please enough of this holiganism. they wont prevail in our land and even one sigle time

Jack1952
- 06/15/2011 at 13:52

In this country you would be institutionalized.

0zyxcba1
- 06/17/2011 at 09:03

@Kibuuka,

Boo!

0zyxcba1
- 06/17/2011 at 11:32

@Jack25,

I do not know from which country Kibuuka hails, but my bet is that in the course of Kibuuka's life, Kibuuka will kill a gay man and then be decorated by the head of state for the heroic deed.

Regardless what one may feel about me and my friends, I think we can all agree that, what with Iran, and now Uganda, this... I really don't know what to call it. Genocide seems somewhat premature. But premature, or not, genocide is where it is headed.

The time for good-natured humor is over. Long overdue is the time to call people out when they make light of that which is quite simply not funny.

I am an old man. I remember like it was yesterday how people in the lily white nationhood where I grew up made fun over KKK lynchings of blacks back South.

Sure, this isn't race. It is different. It touches at the very heart of people's inner identity. I know that. But there is really noting to fear. And even if there were, there are still limits.

Laughing about lynchings and bashing people to death(for fun!); making infantile jokes about stupid things like 'gay poo-poo', poking fun and indulging in passive approval, are fundamental standards beneath which no human being should ever, under any circumstances, allow himself to sink.

I rile in anger against the religions responsible, and maybe I should take greater care in trying to control myself and my passions. But one thing I have never done is to sink to a level so low as to laugh at torture, mutilations, murder, lynchings, and state sponsored executions. Never. I hope people wake up to what it is they are doing.

It's not right.

Tell me Jack, how would you recommend I respond to this:

"I'm going to have to disagree with those who speak about this having to do with religious ignorance...

"let me guide you through this a little bit,
"Leviticus 20:13 requires the punishment of death if a man sleeps with another man

"the quote where Jesus says 'do not judge' has NOTHING to do with this...
"'do not judge' is more like, do not go up to someone and kill them for doing something you think is wrong, because you probably also deserve death for something you've done

"instead, what you don't realize, is they had a high court where people could accuse others and then the death penalty would be carried out, not by the victim or by way of vigilante justice, but by a court of law... this is not against what Jesus said at all...

"'Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them' - Matthew 5: 17" ~ Dan

This is not some poor, illiterate Ugandan speaking. This is the voice of a reasonably well educated citizen of the United States of America, April of 2011.

Should I ignore it? How would you handle it?

Sometimes I am so startles and shocked at what I see, I don't even get angry. My jaw just drops. Is this what religion has done to your country, and mine?

Or what about this:

"In my opinion, they(Westboro Baptist Church) have a good message for the world, but the modus operandi is not the best...I think fags are old enough to know what is good for them..."~ TheTruthforyou

There is another by @TheTruthforyouother, one so bad that Vlatko took it down even though I wrote, not one, but two emails to Vlatko stating my position of freedom of speech and requesting of Vlatko that he please reinstate them. Should Vlatko choose to do so, I'll direct you to the site and page for you to see for yourself.

Although @TheTruthforyouother's language is the worst, the message is tame compared to the postings by a Muslims calling for my execution("removal" was the euphemism of choice). He wasn't even angry but merely calmly stating his support for Islamic law, directed at me, specifically, saying, to me, that my "removal would be a blessing to the innocent."

How do you think I should address these postings?

Sometimes I take the high road, gently suggesting they seek out psychiatric care. At other times I just loose it altogether, and then feel bad afterwards.

What do you think would be the best approach(keeping in mind that I can never know what to expect next)?

Dan
- 02/18/2011 at 19:35

I understand this is a difficult thing to wrap our heads around, as well as a very sensitive issue
Seeing as I have a few friends who have said they are gay, I can't imagine wanting them to be killed
But, in the context of today, when society tells them homosexual activity is okay, it would be unfair to then punish them with the legal system
In the context of those ancient days, the people were aware of all the laws and their corresponding punishments (as we are aware today of different laws and their punishments)
Yes, the Old Testament says "do not kill", but it then clearly says that the man who kills must himself be killed... so don't try to say that the Bible doesn't allow for killing... it must only be for a crime, and it MUST be done by a court of law, the San Hedrin (a group of Jewish elders)... this is where people get confused
When Jesus was fighting against the law of his day, it was primarily because the Romans were in control of the Holy Land and had imposed their own legal system in contradiction to scripture
In the other case, Jesus argued with the Pharisees for their very strict interpretation of certain laws, but these never included the subject of killing (mainly it was what you could do on the Sabbath, what was considered 'work' or not)
If you must know, when Jesus returns, he himself will slaughter many people, and not even necessarily for sinning, just for opposing Israel
You can check that out in the New Testament (Book of Rev.)
I have studied religion for many years so I think I understand this, however I could be wrong, I realize there is a seeming paradox with the whole 'do not kill' thing... but I don't think it's unresolvable

@ Jack1952,
A friendly word of advice.
Do not attempt to reason with Dan.
He is mentally ill.

qwerty
- 02/17/2011 at 19:50

@Dan,
The bible is interpreted differently by many people and religions, but let's just say for an instance that you're right, and that the bible leaves no ambiguity what-so-ever. "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" wasn't in there for some unknown reason, or the "do not judge" reference you used. People should be killed because they're gay. Do you really think that society should start killing people? Can you really picture an all loving God that dictates the death of millions of people: doctors, scientists, artists, rights activists...etc? Remember now, this is just Christianity! While we're at it, let's start advocating the deaths of people based on the Qur'an. After all, doesn't it mention in some context the killing of non-muslims as well gays?? Perhaps it depends on how it is interpreted, I guess...but using your belief system, why not? Hell, after this blood bath, is there anyone left you believe the bible advocates killing? No, wait, there isn't anyone left.
I'm not gay, just not an advocate of killing.
Agape - look it up and tell me that killing is really the intent of the bible.

When I lie with womankind, I snore.
When I lie with my boyfriend,... Well, that's privileged information.

Upshot?(no pun intended):

When I lie with 'mankind', I do NOT do so as I would with womankind(that's for damned sure!).

So, I'm safe.

And, yes, I have not the least difficulty picturing your 'all loving God' dictating the deaths of millions of people.
He's done it many times!

What's wrong with you?
Can't you read?

And, Qwerty, Dan and your god are sick.

Stay away. I hear it's contagious.

AlfBeta
- 06/16/2011 at 19:58

Bible in English is a particularly tricky text, , wobbly translations everywhere. Isn't the first mention of "God" in the first few lines a 'translation' of elohim, a plural?! And do any of the languages from Aramaic on use capitals. I see that 'Son of God" looks different from "son of the gods". Did Jesus speak in uppercase to justify the remembered words which went from aramaic to hebrew to greek to english or whatever. Really, that bible (meaning book) about God meaning ?what? what did it mean.
Better not go chopping chaps up without a bit of study, what ho?

Reasons Voice
- 02/17/2011 at 19:49

Ohh @Dan; If that last statement were true why would Jesus repeatedly interfere with traditional justice and preach against violent reprisals. Don't warp the words of a peacefull man to conform to your own prejudice.

That is the problem with your precious JeeeZus. He repeatedly interfered with justice, which would have been to kill His A$$HOLE Father.

He never preached against reprisals. He just did not want the reprisals to be physically harmful.

In any case, I hate preachers!

All of you here are picking 'round the details, details as to how the 'sinful' ought best be 'tolerated'.

Being gay is neither wrong, nor is being gay unhealthy, and those who believe otherwise, like your God, the Father, and His Son, JeeeZus, the Christ, at One with his Big Daddy, are wrong!

You, your sick little make-believe god, and all the rest of you sky-daddy worshipers, are so hopelessly gone, you don't even know it. And that is what makes you all so very dangerous(and that is what the 2nd Amendment is for!).

Dan
- 02/17/2011 at 19:08

i'm going to have to disagree with those who speak about this having to do with religious ignorance...

let me guide you through this a little bit,
Leviticus 20:13 requires the punishment of death if a man sleeps with another man

the quote where Jesus says "do not judge" has NOTHING to do with this...
'do not judge' is more like, do not go up to someone and kill them for doing something you think is wrong, because you probably also deserve death for something you've done

instead, what you don't realize, is they had a high court where people could accuse others and then the death penalty would be carried out, not by the victim or by way of vigilante justice, but by a court of law... this is not against what Jesus said at all...

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" - Matthew 5: 17

When I lie with womankind, I snore.
When I lie with my boyfriend,... Well, that's privileged information.

Upshot?(no pun intended):

When I lie with 'mankind', I do NOT do so as I would with womankind(that's for damned sure!).

So, I'm safe.

And like I said:
You and your camel herder god make me puke!

Why don't you just die.

Guest
- 06/14/2011 at 17:35

got the guns out again?
az

0zyxcba1
- 06/14/2011 at 21:19

@Azilda, did you read what Dan wrote?

These people are beyond, beyond belief. Here's a documentary about the mandating of legalizing the murder of gay people, and some are speaking about it in such a blasé manner as though they were discussing fluctuations in the stock market, defending, or yielding, on this, or another, esoteric point of theology.

They're not human.

It is as though they were watching someone being tortured to death while quibbling over whose turn it is to fetch the popcorn.

They're not human.

Guest
- 06/14/2011 at 23:45

My impression is that his message is so bleury that it is kind of difficult to know what he means exactly.

What do you make of that? "the quote where Jesus says "do not judge" has NOTHING to do with this... do not judge' is more like, do not go up to someone and kill them for doing something you think is wrong, because you probably also deserve death for something you've done"

On the other hand there are not many doubts in my mind as to what you are trying to say.
az

AlfBeta
- 06/16/2011 at 20:03

have you no respect for a$$holes????

0zyxcba1
- 06/16/2011 at 20:12

@ Alf Beta

Respect must be EARNED. (lol)

revenge
- 02/16/2011 at 23:11

So if we take every crackpot seriously including the pastor doctor's theory of who is in charge of the world. It's the gays, jews, muslims, democrats, republicans, zionists, or liberals. Think there's more but I really can't keep track of all these nut jobs. I love these theories because they're all bull$hit.

@ Ron,
Your concern is not lost on me. And I do think you are correct.
But do not feel too bad about it. The extinction of our species
will be the best thing possible for life on Earth.

Mack
- 02/16/2011 at 18:48

This is hate taken to the extreme. To the Christians doing these things, What happened to the forgiveness of God? What teaching of Christ mentions imprisoning Homosexuals or killing them? This is more a case of inconsistency than anything else.

If you don't cherry-pick the Bible, you will find it was
never there to begin with.

And, anyhow, I have nothing for which to be forgiven,
thank you very much!

Take your god and shuv'it!

AlfBeta
- 06/20/2011 at 19:52

Addressed to the self-desribed Christians here: From the one you claim to believe is The Truth:
"Let he who is without sin fire the first bullet"

gto
- 02/16/2011 at 13:27

@waldo

come on man! their just moderate now. but buddhism is great at spreading hate too in some point in are history. buddism actually have many great purge against chistians in their country(japan/china).. i kno im half chinese.

I do not think you are being offensive, at all. I have often pondered why evolution has always selected in such a manner as to ensure people, such as gay people, stick around.

I don't know why, though I do have a variety of plausibilities at hand.

One clue might be found by studying the other animals. Homosexuality, while always rare, nonetheless exists throughout all higher organisms. Studies of Dolphins have shown that for reasons not understood every now and then two of the same gender will bond for life.

Same with some species of ducks, penguins. Just about everywhere you look, if you look long enough and hard enough it will show itself. And once zoologists know what markers to watch for in any given species, there it is to be found, in full force.

There must be some service these bondings provide that ensure the survival and procreation within the community at large of any given species.

To get back to us humans, I have often wondered if in a highly complex and diversified, specializes culture-structure, those not burdened with offspring might not serve as teachers, mentors, or even shaman, some social function allowing for the community at large to have an added advantage over competing communities.

Just a thought,

What I really cannot stand are these xtians' endless debates as how to best hate the sin while still 'tolerating' the 'sinner'.

They, I will not tolerate!

AlfBeta
- 06/16/2011 at 20:09

environmental and cultural factors exist as well as heredity

0zyxcba1
- 06/19/2011 at 11:08

@ AlfBeta

As you obviously have given consideration to the complexities of sexuality, I can only respond to your comment with appreciation at yet another person expressing views based upon reflection and investigation, rather than upon prayer and faith.

You'd make for a good partner in a any discussion.

AlfBeta
- 06/20/2011 at 20:10

Cool Ozy yes certainly so, more of the reflection and less of the investigation I'd say. I wonder what stats are about regarding same gender partnering in various species. I'm always in two minds about just how valuable 'examples from nature' are as yardsticks for assessing humans. But one of those minds is curious.

I wanna bet that many of those who so strongly preach against homosexuality, have homosexual urges themselves and symbolically fight so vigourously against it, which prevents them from becoming conscious of their own desires.

My first girlfriend was rather pretty, actually. No resemblance to a cow.

Nina
- 02/15/2011 at 18:27

Things I notice while reading these comments

1. Racism
I thought the subject of this documentary was about homosexuality, where did black vs white come from.

2. Hypocrisy
Thanks for the history lessons but all nations and the parasites that contaminated religion have blood on their hands. Homosexuality a mental illness, unnatural, against God?
Unnatural: "Not even animal do it, so why should you", I don't know about you but I have seen it on Discovery channel plenty of times, so I guess that argument is a moot point huh? let's not forget the religions who preach this crap are the same ones who have/still continue to cover up CENTURIES of sexual abuse by priests(many of the victims were boys). A few years ago there was a prominent evangelist pastor was so against homosexuality I've always wondered if he was gay himself, and low and behold he was outed by his boy toy.

3. Religious Ignorance
Ignorance is a equal opportunist, it doesn't care whether you are educated or not, rich or poor. The two combined make a deadly weapon. I am so sick of people spewing quotes from: the Bible, the Koran, to justify their own selfish needs. What gets me is how they pick and choose what "God" said, either believe and live by all of God's commandments or don't. Here are a few reminders in case it's been a while:
"Judge not lest you be judged"- that does say it all, right?
"Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone"- know that no one is free of sin.
"Thou shall not kill"- Hmm.. I think this line is very straightforward right? Maybe you can point out to me where in that line does it say Thou shall not kill unless you are the state then you may do so.
"Turn the other cheek" forgive me but how do you go from that to the Crusades, and Jihad? I thought the idea was to forgive.
A good friend once told me that insanity is making the same mistakes over and over again. I get that now and I am just waiting for the rest of the world to catch up.

@marantzo; You should rewatch the beginning of this film. I don't agree with the anti-gay sentiments of the people being interviewed but when the one guy says "You are a racist! You think that we Nigerians cannot think for ourselves. That we can only be influenced by white Americans."
That statement applies to you. Who are you to lay your self important pitty on a whole nation. "ignorant Ugandans."? seriously WTF dude.

the pastor from america must have been the one who gave the fake extremist poo poo video to the african evangelist pastor to use as a propaganger tool against these helpless gay individuals. i feel sorry for these ignorant ugandans being used and manipulated like this. i soo strongly hope and wish the gay community in uganda be protected and not harmed in anyway. "RELIGION DICTATES EVIL AND IS FULL OF HIPOCRATES"

Generalizing 'eastern religions' into a genre is a really superficial assessment. Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism and Shinto run a very wide gamut with respect to their beliefs and practices. Some have stratified rituals and ceremonies. Some of them are more inclusive and some more exclusive (ie: the Untouchables in the Hindu caste system and the fact that being Shinto means nothing if you're not racially Japanese, or at least born there). If anything there is MORE diversity in Eastern religions. I wouldn't be surprised if Hinduism on its own could claim more sects than Christianity, Judaism and Islam put together.

ALL religions can become oppressive, and most usually do. To say that the bad things religion has done are outweighed by the good is simplistic. Religious belief probably served a very important function for the early homo sapien. It increased group solidarity and helped us make sense of things we couldn't understand at the time, like seasons and storms. At this point in our history we've learned a lot that we didn't know then, and should recognize that the cognitive effects of faith can have positive effect but if you tie them to a tribalistic vision(every religion ever) then you get crusades, genocides and general minority exclusion.

its also stupid that everything he says homosexuals do in the sack straight people do to, obviously hes never been on the internet because there are alot of videos of straight people licking each others asses, fisting each other, anal sex all that. does that mean they are gonna make all sex illegal?

It is unbelievable that will all the problems in Uganda they are worried about what the gay populus is doing. Pure propaganda and as far as the example they are using for being gay (eating poo poo) that is a sick fetish, come on.

i thinks its ridiculous that this man using the same excuse to oppress gays that white europeans used to oppress the blacks of Africa. did he learn nothing from history? secondly alot of you seams to forget that Christianity and islam are not really separate religions from Judaism since they all believe in the same god and have far more in common then different! and you also seams to forget about other western religions like Paganism that are no longer the main stream but very much used to be.

@Reasons Voice...as i wrote: i take you don’t mean this! or i could have written i know you don't mean this. I really did.
Our culture, our education and religion, they all teach us to be hypocrites in such subtle ways that unless you go deep in search, you may never know what an other is really saying, especially in quickly written e-mails. *So ya may be sarcastic humour should be sandwiched by little *stars**
az

You're judging. I would lay money down that you've done things that are considered immoral by your very own standards. That makes you a hypocrite. Some of the greatest people in history were either gay or bi-sexual. They have shaped our history.

Most people are a bit repulsed at the thought of their parents having sex, but they don't attempt to ban it or make it out to be immoral. They just simply don't think about it. Why can't you do the same for people who don't even concern you?

We need laws like that in Canada. As far as I am concerned, being gay is a mental illness. Humans are not meant to be gay if we were all gay how would we reproduce??? Makes me sick that being gay is such a cool fad.

2 1/2 quick points, referring to the word "Condemnation" and a leadership principle called "Lead by example".

Point 1. We all want to either be good leaders or follow good leaders. Seeing a good leader acting on the behalf of his/her people is inspiring and builds group cohesion. Equally important is that a leader demonstrating these good actions can build and maintain loyalty. The good examples that a leader displays will help a leader stay a leader, and will keep followers following.

Point 2. I think we all know that condemnation is a strong, angry word. Only in the most extreme circumstance would I ever even think about condemning a person. It is basically placing judgement on someone, or sentencing someone to be hated or punished in some way.

Point 2 1/2. So, putting it all together; when we have a number of religious leaders that use "lead by example" principles to push their dogma, including the condemnation of people outside their group, they inspire their followers to also condemn or hate these people. As well, any religious leader that chooses not to speak up against violence for any reason is doing the same, because the example they are setting is that it's not their religion's business when other people are being attacked physically or emotionally.

"Any religion that condemns people should be condemned, for it is against humanity, the source of all religion." (Eakins, 2011.)

@Azilda; The quote you took was meant in a sarcastic way. Sometimes I wonder if some universal font for sarcasm would be helpfull lol. No I dont feel that way. It would kind of invalidate what I said prior would it not? Sarcasm is a tool I use so very regularly in my life I sometimes assume that it translates to text.

@Waldo; You are both right and wrong in your assumption that eastern is more inclusive than western tradition. On the surface it is true however it is not inherant within the faiths. The religious tollerance of the east has it's roots back to Genghis Kahn and the Mongols who honestly could care less about any faith at all. Sure some of them adopted different faiths but it was just a personal thing and had no bearing socially. Before the time of the Mongol conquest essentially all asian countries were some form of religious empire. Where the emperor was a living embodiment of god and untold acts of opression and controll. In todays world there is a combination in the east of faith being intrinsicly personal and not a group mentality, as well as in many cases state controll of religion. I believe the former is the stronger of the reasons for a more accepting mentality. There are no religious services per say in eastern faiths for the most part. Prayer and meditation are individual acts, so in that sense the faith does not lend its' self toward exclusionary mentalities. Hostoricaly though religion has been used just as in wester societies as a tool of opression. One example is the Imperialist Japaneese use of bushido code derived from shintoism to justify attrocities. Another would be the systematic killing of that religious sect in China.
Essentially the grass is not nesessarily greener on the other side of the fence. It is just a different yard, one in which we have not had to mow or pull the weeds in for years on end. In that respect it can appear much more appealing.

Reasons Voice...one makes a suggestion and soon Eugler finds to agree. Wonder how many out there who didn't expressed agreement agreed? I just want to say i agree with your view although..."This is a great trend. Tell me what are you affraid of so that we can inflict that fear onto you as some sort of reprisal"....i take you don't mean this!
I think we all are open-minded but our windows are all different...some have little tiny relation ship *porthole* and others have realization ship *bay window*.

I think that the heated debates taking place on this website just prove that all it takes to destroy any group is to bring up a topic that divides them. Religion and homosexuality are probably two of the most controversial subjects in many, if not most cultures. I mean, its effects are happening on this website right now. We probably all have close to the same morals and values, yet we become frustrated and angry with each other when we lure ouselves into taking sides. Suddenly this group, who would like to see humanity prevail, is at each other! Just think people...

Great tool for starting a fight at any party! Try it tonight with your family!

Reasons Voice, you're living up to your name! That was well said! Spaghetti will probably slip to defense mode on that one. Too bad he won't learn from it. I just have this gut feeling that he's not the open-minded type.

@Spaghetti; Since most people attribute anti gay sentiments to what is called homophobia (fear of homosexuals). Do you really think that forcibly sodomizing people with splintered wooden implements is somehow constructive? By your reasoning should we say pin down someone with arachniphobia and pour venomous spiders onto them untill they suffer repeated bites? Or maybe waterboard people with aquaphobia. This is a great trend. Tell me what are you affraid of so that we can inflict that fear onto you as some sort of reprisal.
I don't agree at all with what these so called preachers are saying but you comment and your mentality are even sicker then theirs. Since I think most people would rather be shot and killed that sodomized violently with a sharp stick. It's kinda sad that hate-mongering nut jobs somehow come off more humane than you do.

@ayia You might want to get your terminology sorted out before you rant next time. The word Africaners (correctly spelled 'Afrikaners') refers to the South Africans of European descent - the same people who are now being genocided because they are white (oh, yes, and for the crimes they committed under Apartheid - that’s why today 3 year-old white children get shot execution style by the heroes who took over the country. No one sobs over them, but don’t touch sodomy!

I have not been to Uganda but have travelled extensively through Ghana...and i could see the same trend....Religious groups spoiling a land with rubbish preaching, as a matter of fact they are trying to grow in surrounding countries but their problem is that most neighbours speak french and the Fundamentalist church leaders don't....still the Animalist ancient way of loving your land is being stumped and that's a shame!

Usually the blamer is guilty of the actions he accuses others of. Why is homosexuality such a threat to society? Isn't it a more joyful way of living esp. when romance is involved? Man and woman living together has been trying to say the least from the very start (see the fictious stories in the Bible)....no, I am not gay (unfortunately).
Isn't the transvestite head of the Catholic Church the criminal who told Africaners to have sex with children because they are not allowed to use condoms?

Religious barbarism: example Nr. 327643297519847593872598478. It sickens me to see this, I agree with Spaghetti and Meatballs. Half an hour with our beloved reverend from Uganda and/or his american counterpart with a broomhandle just to teach them what sodomie is all about. Doesn't need a gay person to find a good deal of amusement in that thought.

maybe DFH goto Iran . DFH get hung there in Iran by the neck until dead cuz a DFH choozing DFH-lifestyle

maybe DFH suicide self first . be cheeper

..............................................................................
see comments: TDF - Society - 95.'Missionaries of Hate'(last page, page #3 -- about a third down from the top)
..............................................................................
This @dfh post, satirized here above, is tame. Search around. Some are real humdingers.
By the same token, it is heartening seeing so many decent folk standing up to be counted.

We should have our most influential speakers go over there to not necessarily push any type of pro gay agenda on these poor brainwashed people, but teach them tolerance, compassion and the need for a loving and supportive community. I don't believe gays can be cured of their supposed "illness" but in a strong community you don't get as many gays because these type of feelings are manifested into a child head usually when they are prohibited from masturbating.

Sigmund Freud explains this in his various writings on the subject in most cases homosexuality is deeply rooted in the psyche of that person "closeting" it as they often say leads to bizarre behavior or mental illness.

Freud wrote to a patients mother "Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation; it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function, produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest men among them. (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime –and a cruelty, too. If you do not believe me, read the books of Havelock Ellis."

they would have you believe money is the root of all evil.
but the truth is clearly indicated on the reverse of paper
money in the usa.
worship deity on the face (fed)
rule by the deity on the reverse.

Religion isn't the root of all evil - misapplication of religion is definitely an evil. I wasn't going to watch based on the anti-religious comments, but yeah, definitely think that God doesn't have any approval for some things being done in his name.

Nothing would make me happier than to be locked in a room with anyone of these jackball evangelists and as company a big, dry, rough, and ohh so thick broken broom handle,.... now that's what I call GOOD TIMES !!!

heyaa,The U.S. has,as a government explained its' stand on the rights issue threatening to discontinue aid if the anti gay policy's adopted.At this point that is as far as any politician dares to go.Should we barge in and flex our muscle like we always do over a human rights issue?If history serves to teach,then it's unlikely.We're infamous for jamming our nose into places we shouldn't be..Often bringing death,destruction and suffering.,and little else save blood money for death profiteers.Turn on the news..no, not FOX News.

This doc makes me very angry at the American Evangelicals that seem to have exacerbated this movement. I can't believe the ignorance and hate that they have chosen to spread. Homosexuals are not at all like what they portray, or at least not any more likely than heterosexuals. Maybe they should just have a law against child molestation, rim jobs, and fisting.

Im always very wary of this sort of Terroristic religious intolerance.This is the type of Moral Oppression that many of our Fundamentalist church leaders in the U.S. are trying to achieve(GOD HATES FAGS,God loves Dead Soldiers.) The church dictating government policy in matters of Lifestyle freedom,civil rights and privacy.You have a right to pursue happiness proviso it is the happiness sanctioned by the Church/State...This rabid,overzealous christian fanaticism will become an unholy witch hunt with torture and death,I fear.

The "God hates fags" slogan is that of a tiny, individual church of which most Christians (even fundamentalists like me!) are embarrassed and ashamed. I disagree with (practicing) homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle and while I am a Christian, my disagreement is not solely based on my religious beliefs (I did not agree with it when I was an atheist). Nevertheless, my stomach turns more when I think of the Westboro (sp?) people out picketing funerals and spreading hate in the name of God than it does when I consider the work of radical homosexual lobbyists. I am not fond of either, for I think both groups do more to spread hate and to divide those in our country than they do to create unity, love, or anything of value.

The rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, upon which our Constitution rests, are understood as God-given, and within certain constraints. Your suggestion that the church dictates government policy (or tries to) may be correct, but this is no different than anyone else with an opinion about how things ought to be (that is, all rational persons agree that there need to be some constraints on how one may pursue his/her own happiness), and I would suggest that is every one of us. The question is then not about whether there should be constraints, but upon what foundation those constraints may be built and whose ideas regarding appropriate constraints we adopt.

It is unfortunate that a few uneducated religious leaders with hateful beliefs are those who are highlighted in docs, over against the (literally) millions of stable religious persons who do much good. I would encourage you to have a more balanced view of your neighbors (many of us "radical" Christians live close by, we don't bite, and we really do want to show the love of Christ).

one, two, free...
- 06/08/2012 at 09:12

Nobody is asking you to agree to anything- nobody needs your approval for their life to continue - what if the shoe was on the other foot and your beloved Christianity was treated like homosexuality is treated by your cult.

Petros Petrosyan
- 06/23/2012 at 02:39

You idiots turn your back on biology itself. I suppose when horse and man marriage becomes legal your faggotry will not matter. Will you idiots claim horse loving is not a choice, only time will tell.

littletrotsky
- 08/22/2012 at 12:36

"turn your back on biology"...
Just some of the other animals who are known to have gay relations: Penguins, Bonobos, Chimpanzees, Bison, Japanese scarab beetles, Desert tortoises, Mourning gecko, cats, dogs, goats, lions, emu's, jewel fish, raccoons orcas, dolphins, chickens, rattlesnakes, fence lizards, cockroaches, red ants....
This is nowhere near the full list, and those would just be the ones we've actually demonstrably seen exhibiting homosexual behaviour.

Joel Santos
- 02/21/2013 at 20:24

What are you talking about? We christians are being treated like poop everywhere, including in this very web site.

If Christianity is being judged by the behavior of a very minuscule section of its members... should I do the same? judge atheism and homosexuality by the behavior of their outspoken minorities?

Being Christian is all about loving God, and loving our neighbors. If a "christian" is not doing that, then he/she is not really a Christian.

heyaaa!!
- 02/14/2011 at 02:15

It seems perfectly reasonable that a movie exposing such hatred would stir some contentious emotions within us, but arguing semantics seems counter-productive and a waste of an opportunity to further develop our understanding of the world around us through intellectual communication with like minded people. Let's focus on what we agree on, and forget the rest. This movie is too important to allow ourselves to ruin the discussion.

With that said,

The exploitation of Uganda in this situation is obvious. Furthermore, this is an old story, religious zealots have manipulated the masses... huh, probably since the inception of a functional method of communication.

My curiosities lie here: What role is 'big brother' assuming in this situation. Obviously U.S. diplomats are on the case, but is that enough. Does the free world governments not have the responsibility to stand up for human rights in this situation?

I'd love to hear peoples thoughts and knowledge on this. The Egyptian protests have over shadowed this situation and I've become distracted.

@Jenn
'the fact that you can’t even spell the word “you” kind of makes me skeptical to any intelligence', what an intelligent remark...what a way to judge others...I am awed by the depth of your intelligence...keep it up...in fact buddhism is a result of caste system of hinduism..

First of all I never suggested a biological factor, whatever that means specifically, existed between Jews and Caucasians. In fact I never mentioned the word Caucasian at all. I said I wonder if some biological difference existed between the ancients of the west and east, as they seem to have taken very separate paths. As far as where I get that eastern religions are more inclusive than western religions, it’s something I picked up on while getting my degree in theology.

My degree was based on the western religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, but I studied some about Eastern religions on my own out of pure curiosity. Of course both peoples are capable of horrible things, I never implied otherwise. I merely said most western religions have a common thread of non inclusive judgment while most eastern religions are non judgmental. This should be apparent to anyone that bothers to look with open eyes.

I am sure you can name some specific religions or sects of religions in the east that have done horrible things. But all three of the major religions from the west have blood on their hands, and practice a sort of morality code that if not conformed to bring judgment and often expulsion from the religion on whom ever is deemed guilty. And as far as I know Buddhism does not have a slave class, I have never heard of that. Like Jenn said you are thinking of Hinduism practiced primarily in India- I think.

As far as myself I am an atheist and practice no religion, but that doesn't mean I am blind. It is a clear fact that Eastern religion is more inclusive and less judgmental than Western traditions. That’s all I asserted, you read into it all this stuff about thinking one was more or less violent than the other, and this stuff about a biological connection between Jews and Caucasians- most Jews are Caucasians by the way but I don't know what that has to do with what I said.

Now, I don't want to get involved in some juvenile exchange over the Internet. Arguing online makes no sense what so ever. If you want to believe what ever, then go for it, that’s your business. But I have a right to my opinion as well, and it is backed by educated observation and real facts. Disagree if you like, but after your confrontational and somewhat amateur like approach you will have to forgive me if I tend not to take you very seriously. Have a nice day.

waldo srry to tell u but u are so wrong.
the "biological" factor that u wrote that may exist between jews and caucasian to japeness or chineas is a big bull#@$@
i dont think u also know eastern culture as well as u think u do becuse if u did u may have not use budahisam which is a class system religion with a slave class .

in my opinion any social control system is wrong .
we can all cherish and respect each others coltoral background and celebrate the beutiful colors of human coltures ,but never to forget to move forward.

If these antigay religious leaders from around the world really had an interest in following the relious texts so steadfastly they would teach the following abominations the bible "speaks" of: dietary violations (such as shellfish), dishonesty, stealing, adultery, and even usury (charging interest on loans). Should they apply the death penalty for eating oysters?

Christian sheep, Jesus is supposed to be your shepherd, not these self serving individuals. If you all strove to be like him the world would be a much better place to live. There's no instance in the bible where he taught hatred. He loved those on the bottom rungs of society, those cast aside by their fellow man. He even asked god to forgive those involved in his own murder.

If the christians are right about the afterlife it will be interesting to see the surprise on the faces of these folks when they wake up in a bed of fire and brimstone.

This kind of hate and violent prejudice is inherent in Western religions. Yet Eastern traditions are inclusive and full of understanding and forgiveness, for the most part. I am not sure if that difference springs form the distinctly different histories of the two regions and their religouse systems, or some kind of biological difference between the two peoples. But compare Buddhism with Judaism and you see what I mean, or taoism and christianity. The western traditions are exclusionary and violent full of judgement, while the eastern traditions are more about inclusion and understanding full of peace and introspection. Just an obsevation, I am sure many others have noticed this difference as well.

These evangalist should be ashamed of themselves for taking advantage of a people like this. The fact that they charged fifty dollars a seat when that is more than the monthly income of those attending is very telling. These clowns crave acceptance and fame, as well as cash. They have found both in a gullible people new to this type of indoctrination.

These people are used to African based tribal religions that say what they mean and are not symbolic nor do its practitioners pick and choose what to follow or believe, they follow their religiouse teachings literally. Now they have been introduced into a religion that if followed in a literal fashion will be a blood bath. Think of the old testament, if you don't know how to take its meaning in the context of the time it was written, you could become a monster following its principles.

I am not insulting these people, they are just as smart and sophisticated as anyone else I am sure, but they do not understand the way western religiouse texts should be read and analyzed. They don't understand that the examples this reverend is showing them are of sick extremists on line, not average gay people. I think the reverend knows this, he is simply underhanded and cheap. But the people are being tricked and manipulated.

what ever happened to love thy neighbor? Judge not lest you be judged. hatred of any kind is wrong. The preacher with the fetish of poo-poo eating and showing it in a church setting was disturbing and made me think that he is full of s**t. Just let people be people.