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except you didn't actually read what he wrote. He was saying kernel developers are trying to force manufacturers, not force things down RealNC's throat.

That's also not true. They want a release of documentation.

Using some simple logic and reason here ~ can you actually explain how RealNC is shoving closed-source down your throat, exactly??

By preventing a fully-featured open source driver. The result is that (without nouveau), you cannot run Nvidia on a fully open system. That's the definition of pushing closed source down the throats of every nvidia owner.

Just release the documentation, give people a CHOICE.

the OS proponents do have a choice, use Nouveau or don't use Nvidia hardware - it's pretty simple :\

And the only sane answer to this is: Fuck you Nvidia!

...and no one is dictating how linux kernel developers should be licensing thier code ~ it is entirely up to them. Please, stop making up stuff.

This whole discussion is about licensing of exported symbols, isn't it?

How contradictory. First you claim that Linux isn't forcing open source on vendors, then you say it does and if you don't like it then go away.

No, I said that YOU can use anything you want.

Kernel is GPL with an exception for modules. Nothing has changed about that, and Nvidia is still making their binary blob, and nobody has forced them to do anything.

This anti-GPL, "everything must be closed" astroturfing is tiresome. Just release the documentation and keep your blob. Why do you fear people runnign a free driver? What do you lose if nouveau gets better?

Oh yeah? Why are linux devs trying to dictate NVidia how to license their shit? They aren't forcing them? What about the "fuck you NVidia" thing?

When did linux devs try to dictate how Nvidia should license their shit?

Then no driver is top-notch, because no driver can claim this, least of all Nvidia's blob.

So supporting all of the latest Kronos/GL standards, out performing all other drivers available ~ outperforming the Windows driver in Valve's benchmarking doesn't count, supporting xorg 1.13 before AMD doesn't count, nor does anything else?? ya, right.

it sounds to me like you are just a hater - and if you hate Nvidia - then why waste your energy, trolling an Nvidia trhead ~ wouldn't your time be better served doing something else?

Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat

Intel's driver offers performance on par with Windows, offers HW decode and complete powersaving, GL 3 (3.3 is around the corner), that's a top-notch driver. OpenCL is missing, but nobody is using Intel's stuff for that anyway.

You keep talking about all these great things around the corner, the problem is (of course) all of these things already exist in Windows and are being taken advantage of by the OS and software developers. So NO, it is not 'on par' ~ and that is VERY obvious.

again - take a chill pill, and stop trolling. if you don't like Nvidia then don't buy their products, but stop bitching/trolling about it. it's that simple.

I think Intel is doing a relatively good job, providing decent drivers and should be applauded for their efforts, but i am not delusional enough to make the claims you are.

if your main concern is open drivers then stick with intel gpu or low-end ati.
if your main concern is quality and performance then stick with high end ati or nvidia (more nvidia tbf) its quite simple.

I buy nvidia (and recently upgrade to a 500 series from an aging 9000) because they provide the best support and performance.

ATI NEVER opened their drivers NOR their specs
AMD open the specs NOT the drivers because they couldn't provide support not out of good will...

nvidia have shown time and time again they provide good support (for cards in their support list) for newer xorg api/abi etc...

What is nvidia's incentives in opening the spec or driver?
is it the competition? not really, ati open drivers are still miles behind
Want nvidia to open their drivers then either support via your wallet by going to ati, support via your dev skills (if you have any) to get ati drivers upto par. bad mouthing and being a self-entitled dick is not going todo it.

Do you bitch an moan about Intel/AMD not opening their microcode? bitch and moan to mobo makers to open their bios? seems more like a selective hate than a true advocate of openness...

So supporting all of the latest Kronos/GL standards, out performing all other drivers available ~ outperforming the Windows driver in Valve's benchmarking doesn't count, supporting xorg 1.13 before AMD doesn't count, nor does anything else?? ya, right.

Nvidia blob is fine from a performance view -- I've never claimed the opposite.

But they don't support xrandr fully, they don't support many Nvidia products (Intel's drivers support EVERYTHING), they are not fully integrated in distributions because kernel bits need to be recompiled at every upgrade, and there's the added bonus of breaking when your hardware support gets dropped to maintenance mode.

So they don't do everything better than every other driver, like you claim

it sounds to me like you are just a hater - and if you hate Nvidia - then why waste your energy, trolling an Nvidia trhead ~ wouldn't your time be better served doing something else?

No, I don't have Nvidia, I hate the fact that they are snubbing the OSS crowd and refusing to release documentation for their stuff. Instead of blacklisting nouveau -- or maybe in addition to blacklisting it -- they should also help them a bit. The fact that they don't shows that they are acting like assholes.

Whether they want them to release documentation is a moot point, it doesn't change the fact, they are denying Nvidia access to things that would improve the Nvidia experience for their userbase, including things like Optimus.

Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat

By preventing a fully-featured open source driver. The result is that (without nouveau), you cannot run Nvidia on a fully open system. That's the definition of pushing closed source down the throats of every nvidia owner.

I specifically chose Nvidia in FULL knowledge of what i was buying ~ Nvidia didn't shove anything down my throat. And quite Frankly, none of the OSS drivers are fully-featured - and we've already been over this. Stop making fallacious BS claims. AMD gives specs - is radeon a fully-featured OSS driver? nope..

Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat

Just release the documentation, give people a CHOICE.

People have a choice.

Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat

And the only sane answer to this is: Fuck you Nvidia!

Or let the free-market system work, how it is intended to work. ie: don't buy nvidia if you don't want to support them, and let the free market do the rest.

Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat

This whole discussion is about licensing of exported symbols, isn't it?

not really. Nobody is dictating to the kernel developers how they are to license the code that they write. We may be discussing various aspects of exported symbols ~ but that is entirely different.

seriously, you need to relax and think about this stuff a little more critically.

EDIT: anyway, this is just turning into a flame-war and you are just trolling and hating on Nvidia. I'm pretty much done with the conversation.