Well, it kind of depends, if you're speaking to a Christian, don't bother saying Happy Holidays, there's no point and you obviously mean Merry Christmas as that is what most Christians celebrate. Same goes with Jews. Just say Happy Hanukkah, as they aren't celebrating Chrismas, but they celebrate Hanukkah, so tell them to have a happy one. It goes for all religions._________________There's always a bigger fish - Qui Gon Jinn.

You shall learn that history is an intricate weaving of many events. No one thing can be understood without the proper context.

I don't mind whatsoever if you say "Happy Holidays", as long as you don't mind that I say "Merry Christmas". What gets me, however, are the "Holiday Trees". Excuse me...the what? As far as I am aware, they are only used for the Christmas holiday. The only reason the name would change is because of the aversion to the word "Christmas" itself. And yes, this greatly annoys me. If you don't want to say Christmas, or are offended by the word (and I will grant you this), then don't buy a tree and don't celebrate the holiday!

I don't celebrate Kwanzaa or Hanukkah, but I don't mind if these terms are used by the people who do, or are advertised in stores that sell related merchandise. I simply do not participate.

Arg. But anyway.

I know what you mean. As an interesting aside, Christmas trees were originally a pagan tradition. It represents Yggdrasil, the World Tree (In Norse and Germanic mythology). It was a German tradition that only made its way into the English speaking world because Queen Victoria and Prince Albert, who were German, decorated their palaces with them. From that it became an English and, later, American tradition. The tinsel represents Bifrost, the rainbow bridge connecting our mortal world with the gods' immortal(ish) world._________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:24 pm

Message

Mara Jade SkywalkerAdministrator

Joined: 15 Feb 2008Posts: 5799Location: Beyond Shadows

Yes, I realize that the tree was originally used for a pagan holiday. But it is no longer connected to said pagan holiday in any way. At least not for me. I celebrate Christmas to celebrate the birth of Christ. If we stole the objects used in our celebration, then we stole the objects. But I don't believe they have any connection to the original use. Not any longer. America (and other countries, I would assume) has shaped its own tradition with bits and pieces thrown in from centuries past. But the current holiday is a unique holiday in its own right.

Everything we do, everything we say, is at least slightly influenced from something in the past. We cannot avoid these influences. We stole the Christmas tree from the Germans, and many American families who do not believe in God stole the Christmas tree from us to simply celebrate a holiday of giving and good cheer.

The Christmas tree itself is not a manifestation of evil. What it's being used for, and what it represents, is most important. If someone were to convince me that having a Christmas tree in my home means I am letting in the pagan gods of the Germans, then I would ditch the tree. But I believe the tree to simply be a matter of tradition in today's world, and I include it as such. *shrugs*_________________
"It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:45 pm

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7121Location: Sailing into the unknown

I don't mind "Happy Holidays" in the sense that it doesn't exclude Hanukkah and Kwanzaa. However, I do mind "Happy Holidays" used as a euphemism for "Merry Christmas". Christmas is what it is: the celebration of the birth of Christ. If you don't like it, get your own holiday, but don't try to secularize ours._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:53 pm

Message

Alan Skywalker VMaster

Joined: 10 Apr 2011Posts: 632

Good point, Reep. Mara, I saw an article on MSN(didn't read it, but I saw it) about one of the state governors defending the use of the term 'holiday trees.' I was like: "What the fr--?"

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:42 pm

Message

VileZeroMaster

Joined: 21 Mar 2010Posts: 816Location: Maryland

Reepicheep wrote:

I don't mind "Happy Holidays" in the sense that it doesn't exclude Hanukkah and Kwanzaa. However, I do mind "Happy Holidays" used as a euphemism for "Merry Christmas". Christmas is what it is: the celebration of the birth of Christ. If you don't like it, get your own holiday, but don't try to secularize ours.

As a Catholic who celebrates Christmas, I've never understood why some people get so frustrated/angry/whatever about "Happy Holidays" being said in place of Christmas. I use both, kind of interchangeably. Because from Thanksgiving until New Years, it's pretty much a holiday season in general. I've never had anyone snap at me that they don't celebrate Christmas after wishing them a Merry Christmas. And if someone said something rude to a nice sentiment like that, I'd just say something like, "Oh, well happy holidays then!" Because those kind of people (I imagine) are the worst.

I say, call it what you want. No one is making you say "Merry Christmas." There's no war on Christmas. If some governor wants to be super PC and call a tree a "holiday tree," that's fine. You aren't being forced to say it. At worst, it's worth an eye roll.

Now, I have a question for everyone, too. How do you feel about the term 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas'?

Personally, I'm for it. Christmas isn't the only holiday to fall in that period, and we live in a multi-cultural society, and you don't know what strangers celebrate, so it's more a case of saying 'Happy Whatever You Celebrate' to them. If you know them, and know their inclination, then you can be more specific, like 'Merry Christmas' or 'Happy Kwanza' or 'Happy Hanukkah' or 'Happy Yule', but if you don't, then I've found it's easier to be more inclusive and we go on from there.

I'm all for both. I do Christmas, but find those who get bent, over if you use Happy Holidays, or Merry Christmas, or X-mas drain the joy of the season for me. To me it's those kinds of ways of looking at things then demanding everyone do the same- is what's wrong with our country.

If I say Happy Holidays it's cause I figure I won't see you untill the new year, not because I'm against Merry Christmas. And yet every year I have friends on both sides. From those getting bent about people using X mas and insisting everyone know their belief that Christmas is about Christs birth even though it's not that actual date. To those getting upset about the term Holiday Tree vs Christmas Tree.

Thankfully no one I know gets bent about Kwanza, cause if they did I'd point out it's a holiday made up by a guy in prison in the 80s or something. But I learned that the X in X mas is an abbreviation that means Christ. But it doesn't change that people want what they want and want others to see it as they do. Be it Christmas, SW Continuity, or a good TV series people are people.

To me the season is about spreading love and joy and compassion and good will. And I think almost everyone can agree Christmas is an American holiday, and one that's grown beyond the scope of just being a "Jesus Birthday" celebration. I honestly don't factor the Jesus birth in since I believe his birth was in April But that doesn't mean we shouldn't celebrate it then. I just don't. I keep Jesus in mind and all, but I don't go so far as to make him a cake. I'm more into spending time with my family and making fond memories each year. After all it was being celebrated before Christ was even born. No sense getting all worked up about it- cause we know Jesus wouldn't want that.

I have tried to avoid finding myself in what I refer to as the "Offended Groups" those groups of individuals so offended they want to enforce their beliefs on the rest to feel better again. To me they miss the point of the season by fixating on negatives. Enjoy the season as you will I say._________________-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
-
-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:18 pm

Message

CerrineaMaster

Joined: 09 Jun 2009Posts: 1491

I'm in agreement with IR2 here. I don't think anyone should get bent out of shape about the way someone expressions good intentions. It doesn't bother me if someone says happy holidays, Merry Xmas or assumes I'm Jewish (which has happened) and wishes me Happy Hanukkah. They're all meant with good intentions and getting offended is so contrary to the intent of the season. I mean really getting offended when someone is sincerely wishing you something good is just kind of strange in my book._________________Roqoo Depot co-founder.

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:47 am

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7121Location: Sailing into the unknown

VileZero wrote:

I say, call it what you want. No one is making you say "Merry Christmas." There's no war on Christmas. If some governor wants to be super PC and call a tree a "holiday tree," that's fine. You aren't being forced to say it. At worst, it's worth an eye roll.

Oh, I agree. No one's forcing me to call my Christmas tree the Holiday tree, but it's just silly.

On a related note, I read in a C. S. Lewis book or essay somewhere about his brother being out at Christmastime and hearing a woman saying (paraphrase), "There you have it. They've got to drag religion into everything. They're doing it with Christmas now!"

Made me smile. _________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Did the wrapping up of the presents last night. Took me two hours!_________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

As opposed to where?_________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

I bow at the feet of whoever invented giftbags and tissue paper. LOL_________________Roqoo Depot co-founder.

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:53 pm

Message

NedaraKnight

Joined: 08 Apr 2011Posts: 396

I still don't have to do it. It's too soon!!!

In fact, we give our presents our last holyday day: January 6th. We call the Magi "the Three Kings" and follow the tradition of giving the children their presents that day just like the Magi gave theirs to Jesus.