Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

Actually, EJ has repeatedly noticed, throughout BC, that Blizzard doesn't round on THEIR side... but they do drop everything after the decimal on the player side. In other words, round up. 755 is the new dual-wield hit cap.

We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty. - Sgt. Malcolm "Mal" Reynolds, Battle of Serenity Valley

Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

Ah, thank you for the clarification, Taryble.

@Scarzy: Negative, cap'n. Special attacks when dual-wielding normally only have a 9% miss rate. Titan's Grip just gives their yellow damage the same miss rate that their white damage has - they'll need 755 if they have a Precision-esque talent, or higher (919) if they do not.

Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

Originally Posted by scarzy

And dual 2h fury wars need allot more o.0 they got 15% extra to get rid of :<

Actually, no. Their extra miss rating is on YELLOW attacks. These attacks have a standard 5% miss chance before modifications no matter if you duelwield, use a single weapon or a two-hander. Incase of using two 2-handers this gets bumped to 20% miss chance and the white damage duelwield penalty stays the same.

In essence this means fury warriors are going to love hit rating even more than rogues as the first 20% reduces miss chance of both special and white attacks.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, I'm not an expert on the matter but this is what I believe to be the case. Also, I believe a large amount of warriors disagree on this 'we love hit rating now' theory and instead hate it because it eats their chance to stack up crit. But that could be related to simple fear of change and actually having to consider hit rating now, or could be a legitimate claim. Only time will tell.

Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

Originally Posted by Tyrgeis

Actually, no. Their extra miss rating is on YELLOW attacks. These attacks have a standard 5% miss chance before modifications no matter if you duelwield, use a single weapon or a two-hander. Incase of using two 2-handers this gets bumped to 20% miss chance and the white damage duelwield penalty stays the same.

In essence this means fury warriors are going to love hit rating even more than rogues as the first 20% reduces miss chance of both special and white attacks.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, I'm not an expert on the matter but this is what I believe to be the case. Also, I believe a large amount of warriors disagree on this 'we love hit rating now' theory and instead hate it because it eats their chance to stack up crit. But that could be related to simple fear of change and actually having to consider hit rating now, or could be a legitimate claim. Only time will tell.

Edit: 'xcuse me taking a step off-topic. Moving on.

They simply don't love hit as much because after their specials are capped there are other stats which provide a bigger boost per point compared to hit.

With rogues that isn't the case. Only expertise is better and that's an insanely rare stat only found on a few items, of which none are worth wearing into deep endgame. (only exception being t6 boots and shard of contempt)

Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

Even with Titan's Grip, the numbers for Fury white and yellow damage aren't quite the same. When you're talking hit rating, you're usually talking endgame. When you're talking endgame, you're talking raiding (at least to me - I don't do PvP ). This means you have to deal with a 9% base miss chance. Dual-wield adds an extra 19% miss chance to white damage. The miss on TG adds 15% to yellow damage. So you'll have to deal with a 28% miss chance on white damage, and 24% on yellow.

Hit cap for DW will be 919. (white dmg)
Hit cap for TG will be 787. (yellow dmg)

Anything lower will be due to talents. Any talent providing 1% hit chance will in effect provide 32.78998947 +hit.

Fury warriors will probably aim for the 787 TG mark. Rogues will, as they did in BC, most likely aim for the 919 DW mark. This is modified by talents, however, as we're all aware. Precision gives 5% hit chance, which means the earlier stated 755 is the goal for rogues. Warriors will aim for 820, since they can only get 3% hit from talents, and I expect to see them aiming for the DW cap.

Warriors previous discounting of +hit was entirely due, as Lesane said, to the fact that once they hit the 9% soft-cap for specials, they got more from other stats - expertise and crit. Or so they thought. White damage was still 35% or so of the dps for a T6/SWP warrior, and that will be going up in the expansion (one of my friends who plays just such a T6 fury warrior has been raiding on the beta, and says that with the ability and talent changes, his white damage is around 60% of the dps he puts out, with TG.) This puts them more in a rogue situation, where >50% of dps comes from white damage. I expect to see warriors aiming for the DW cap, since they're now going to be so close to maximize TG, and because white damage is a far more significant chunk of their damage output.

-- Taryble

(and for those wondering, no, I don't currently play either class over level 50. I'm a priest whose main used to be a hunter.)

We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty. - Sgt. Malcolm "Mal" Reynolds, Battle of Serenity Valley

Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

This hit cap worries me a lot.

Looking at the set pieces from Naxx there are two pieces with hit rating on giving 70 hit rating for the Naxx 10 gear and 80 rating for the Naxx 25. If you go for the 4 piece bonus in Naxx, this means the max your going to get is 80, and this is on the rogue specific gear, not the stuff we're going to have to share with kitty druids.

Where is the rest of this monumental amount of hit rating going to come from if its not on our specific gear and is doubling in lich king? ok, the gems may give double what they are now for hit so 20 for the hit only gem. using every socket bar the meta socket gives a total of 140 hit rating, so with the rating on gear, 220.

Using zbits quote,

Originally Posted by zbik

around 752,with 5precision to never miss white attacks at 80
mut being king atm though ,youll want 12%+ 5 in precision to never get resiested on your poisons, thats gonna be around 393

Where is the other 532 hit rating going to come from when 5 gear pieces have a total of 220 hit rating when gemmed to the max on the assumption that gems gives 20 hit rating?

This is based on 25 man nNaxx loot. Its 210 with the 10 man. If anyone knows something I'm missing then please fill me in, cause I'm getting worried how we're supposed to keep up with our damage.

Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

Originally Posted by Bunta

This hit cap worries me a lot.

Looking at the set pieces from Naxx there are two pieces with hit rating on giving 70 hit rating for the Naxx 10 gear and 80 rating for the Naxx 25. If you go for the 4 piece bonus in Naxx, this means the max your going to get is 80, and this is on the rogue specific gear, not the stuff we're going to have to share with kitty druids.

Where is the rest of this monumental amount of hit rating going to come from if its not on our specific gear and is doubling in lich king? ok, the gems may give double what they are now for hit so 20 for the hit only gem. using every socket bar the meta socket gives a total of 140 hit rating, so with the rating on gear, 220.

Using zbits quote,

Where is the other 532 hit rating going to come from when 5 gear pieces have a total of 220 hit rating when gemmed to the max on the assumption that gems gives 20 hit rating?

This is based on 25 man nNaxx loot. Its 210 with the 10 man. If anyone knows something I'm missing then please fill me in, cause I'm getting worried how we're supposed to keep up with our damage.

Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

I tried to take account of gems in my post, allow the hit rating provided by gems to double to 20 up from the 10 at the moment on the lionseye gem.

With 5 gear sockets used, that means that the other 12 gear sockets must provide on average 44 hit rating (this is including the trinket slots as well) in order to reach the hit cap suggested by zbit. Considering that blue posts have already told us that we will be sharing gear with kittys and that it will not have hit rating on it, instead we will have to gem for it while kittys go for ap, strength, agility, then as has been mentioned here:

How do we hope to keep up with them in terms of damage considering we can only gem for hit?

I could well be missing things here. Please don't take what I say as gospel. Its a worry I have. I don't want to end up enchanting for hit as well as gemming. Yes some gear with hit on it. But its not going to be around the 44 mark, and not all slots with have a gem slot on it so I'm am slightly worried how we're going to stack up going in to Naxx as its the first raid.

Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

Were people hitcapped in Karazhan gear? No, I didn't think so. Yes, Hit is a strong dps stat, but the items in question have other stats to compensate for the lost hit, expertise and haste being examples. Reaching the hit cap doesn't magically increase your dps, it's just a limit to tell you when hit rating becomes useless.

Re: Level 80: Hit Cap

I am not looking at being hitcapped at lvl 80 much like I am not hit capped at lvl 70

The issue as far as I can tell in the lack of +hit gear is that if gemmed and enchanted for hit we will only have about half of what we need to perform. Maybe it would be like going to Serpentshrine with +175 hit now.. would you do that? I know I wouldn't.

The reason the hit cap is talked about as a dead stat should you overrun that 363 figure is that the gear is available right now to be able to do that. In the Lich it simply isn't so right now its a very important stat or at least a talking point.