This is just another example of all the obscure, BS little laws and riders that those criminals are passing up in Washington. And then before you know it you will have fines in the mailbox for S*** that you never even knew existed! Sure, this is something small like all the other little small things and before you know it we won't be able to do anything without paying a tax or pulling permits. Its all just stepping stones.

That's how England is these days. They have a tax, fees, permits, etc for everything. My English friends tell what to me are horror stories.

Viking Friend: My ancestors came from a small island of the West Coast of Norway that has our name. They raided Ireland in the 800's then settled in Normandy only to "visit" england in 1066. My wife says my ancestors were warrior barbarians and they have not improved since---. Think I will go sharpen my war axe if wood is limited.

I hope to God that Obama's bill goes through! We need clean air, clean technology, and good health!

I really didn't think people came to this board just to spread bull****, but, I have been proven wrong. I mean, I knew it was possible, seen it before, but boards like this aren't very popular among the mainstream, you know.

Now to address your points,

Wood burning releases nothing permanently harmful to the environment. We have these things called trees that take care of the CO2 they produce, furthermore "global warming" was and is going to happen with or without humans. Period. It's part of this planet's natural cycle.

As a blacksmith, I can tell you oil-based anything is WAY, WAY more harmful to the body. Wood smoke just burns your eyes a bit and makes you cough, the fumes/smoke from coal, oil and natural gas will kill you.

Wood burning is sustainable, wood is a renewable resource and the large tracts of forest that are deliberately preserved to harvest, then re-seeded are crucial habitats to endangered species. Not to mention they provide refuge for non-endangered species and they improve air quality through sheer volume of trees. They take our waste and use it, it's the most natural process you can get.

Woodfires naturally happen and have been happening for a long, long time. I don't see how you could find that harmful, as mother nature pretty much has the ultimate say on anything.

All pollution is worse now - look at our oceans and rivers. Man is destroying this planet. I'm not a tree hugger, just a realist. No one can argue that it's healthy to be pumping wood smoke into the air of a residential neighborhood. Plain and simple; it's unpleasant to live with and unhealthy to breathe it. I know of families whose lives have been disrupted by wood smoke. It's not fair to inflict this upon your neighbors.

By residential areas you mean the suburbs, and suburbanites aren't champions of the ecological cause. They really couldn't care less about the environment because they don't live in it. We country people do, we fully understand what happens when a city gets closer and closer. The air stinks, the traffic gets worse and crime goes up. You urbanites often think we're dumb yokels living in the sticks, unable to do anything besides bitch about immigrants, hug our bibles and guns all the while sipping on some beer. While we drive everywhere we go, we have to. If I'm visiting a city, I walk because everything is in walking distance and I'd rather not waste gas I have to pay for. The farmers, hunters, anglers, homesteaders and whoever else is the stereotypical country folk... We care about nature because we care about our homes.

Interjecting yourself onto a message board without proper introduction is very rude, by the way. I don't know who you are and I definitely don't care, your arguments are the same weak rhetoric vomited by pseudo-intellectuals. Rather than just saying "WOOD SMOKE STINKS, IT RUINS LIVES!!" you could, perhaps, give a legitimate reason as to why burning wood is so abhorrent, but I will not be expectant that you'll do exactly that. Furthermore, I think you and your ilk, (that is to say anyone who dwells within a "residential area" and has the gall to impose themselves upon me) stink worse than wood smoke. I remain thoroughly unimpressed by your sanctimony and thorough lack of understanding when it comes to honest environmental preservation.

The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Jixijenga For This Useful Post:

I'm not quite 50 years old. I grew up in a small town in central Maine. Because of financial hardship, I learned how to cook on a wood burning stove and heated bath water the same way.
I have a fire place that we use to supplement and at times replace the oil burning furnace heat; wood is much less expensive.
I would much rather walk through a passing cloud of sweet smelling, nostalgia triggering wood smoke than through a cloud of toxic cigarette smoke to enter my local .... insert library, grocery store, WalMart...what ever business keeps their smoking areas just out side the entry door.
I'm not as educated on some of the issues discussed in this thread. I'll be the first to admit that.
I'm very concerned that our government, the folks that we the people have delagated to monitor our welfare, are going to end up taking complete control over everything we do.
We often joke that there will some day be a tax on breathing; well, this sure sounds like the beginning to that end, doesn't it?
I'm ashamed, at times, to admit I'm an American. The rest of the world's leaders must be getting a good laugh at us each time something new comes out of the Whitehouse.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Time for a change "People"?

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mad in Maine For This Useful Post:

All pollution is worse now - look at our oceans and rivers. Man is destroying this planet. I'm not a tree hugger, just a realist. No one can argue that it's healthy to be pumping wood smoke into the air of a residential neighborhood. Plain and simple; it's unpleasant to live with and unhealthy to breathe it. I know of families whose lives have been disrupted by wood smoke. It's not fair to inflict this upon your neighbors.

2) Wood fires are carbon neutral. Every forest has a plant biomass carrying capacity. Firewood is the waste product of thinning out non-croppers. They allow faster grounding of carbon by other trees, displacing their own carbon emmissions.

3) The ashes from wood fires are needed to control soil pH. This is "Mother Nature's" idea, not ours.

4) The ashes return nutrients to the soil much faster than decomposition. They are necessary to build the soil.

5) Firewood is free. I don't need to drive around making car exhaust pollution in order to earn money to buy it, like I do with natural gas, heating oil, electric heat, and propane.

6) Thinning and burning non-croppers and deadwood prevents forest fires, which burn much less efficiently, and pollute a lot more. Not to mention that their heat is wasted, and they destroy stuff.

7) Wood is a renewable resource.

8) Harvesting firewood does not destroy the environment, like mining for coal.

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Harmless Drudge For This Useful Post:

I think that portions of California actually banned ALL stoves.......but am just relying on memory here. Not interested enough to check it out as it is after all california.
Maybe some of the cali guys can enlighten us better.

This is a great start to solve a huge problem. But they should replace old wood stoves with propane stoves - not more wood. OWBs are already being banned in many states because of the tremendous amount of carcinogenic pollution they produce. Why do so many of our kids (and adults) have asthma these days? Air pollution. We have to start cleaning up our air and stopping wood smoke in residential areas is a fantastic start.

I find it funny cause Seattle said the very same thing not to many years ago.

They wanted to ban ALL burning ( indoor / stove and outdoor ) state wide, on private property.

A small handful of people stood up and asked, "Why do you infringe on property rights of the rural property owners, but not the luxuries of the urban folk and their burning for fun?"

"why not start this with public parks?"

"Why do home owners need to start this while Seattle yuppies can still have bon fires on the beach?"

Suffice to say, the Idiots that wanted the permanent burn ban had no reply, and have dropped the issue for now.

PS: That meeting was held with next to NO notification to the public in a attempt to have no public commentary..... I wonder why?

The Following User Says Thank You to Hells Toy Master For This Useful Post:

I dunno, this is starting to sound like the "Obama won't let you fish" story from a while ago. Really, it's like saying that cash for clunkers was designed to outlaw classic cars. Though the program had a slew of other problems, that was not one of them. Really, this is about the least invasive type of environmental legislation... god forbid they try anything more aggressive. And even if you don't buy the climate change thing, there are other windfalls, given that the newer stoves use dramatically less fuel than the older ones do. In essence, all this will do is change industry standards, and give people an incentive to replace older, less efficient models. But hey, don't let me get in the way of wild speculation and paranoia or anything ^_^.

dude I understand what you mean here, but as my previouse post says, they can and WILL make them illegal. Where I liove you can longer install a new wood burning stove, AT ALL.

Spoken like a true socialist or communist. Because you personally don't like something you feel it is OK to get the government thugs to go point a gun at the offenders and threaten to kill them unless they do what you want.

Quote:

They're outlawed because they smell and pollute! Who the heck wants to breathe someone's smoke outside and inside their own home?

You always have a right to move somewhere else. This reminds me of the idiots that move out into farming areas from the city because they want the clean air and elbow room and then complain that the manure from the next farm (who was there first) stinks too bad and is interfering with their enjoyment of their property cease and desist their way of life simply some high minded liberal doesn't have to deal with the unpleasantness. Never mind they were the ones who chose to go live where they did and the farmer also has a right to use his property as he sees fit.

Quote:

When the power goes out, do what everyone else does - use a generator! Duh! If you can afford a wood stove you can afford a generator.

Well that will work given a few minor variables...

1. You have fuel for your generator to last you through the crisis.

2. You can still get fuel when your supply runs out and fuel is still available.

3. The crisis doesn't outlast your fuel and generator.

What happens if the crisis is really serious or lasts a very long time, i.e. several weeks or months or the fuel runs out? It is doubtful that you will have hundreds of gallons of fuel stored up to last this. Of course since you are probably one those really smart people that has a natural gas generator you won't have to worry... until something disrupts the gas supply. When your little generator stops running and you start freezing your little communist a** off the neighbor who didn't give into your big government dreams of controlling his life can simply walk out into the woods to collect more fuel and stay warm. He doesn't have to worry about refineries being shut down and unable to produce more fuel, or truckers delivering fuel to a place he can get it, or skyrocketing inflation making fuel unaffordable or his generator breaking down and not being able to get spare parts to fix it. Nope, all he needs is an ax and he is probably in good shape for years to come.

However I have to say your faith in the fragile system of producing, refining, and delivering fuel and supplies is commendable! As is your faith that no crisis will last longer than your fuel and generator. But, hey don't worry, because if things get really bad I am sure that same great government that you want to take away your neighbor's wood stove will be right there with all the supplies you will need. After all everyone knows the government never screws anything up and is the model of efficiency and perfection throughout history.

The key point is it is dead wrong and morally reprehensible that people see nothing wrong with using the power of government to strip rights and freedom away from other people because they don't like what the person is doing.

god forbid they try anything more aggressive. And even if you don't buy the climate change thing, there are other windfalls, given that the newer stoves use dramatically less fuel than the older ones do. In essence, all this will do is change industry standards, and give people an incentive to replace older, less efficient models. But hey, don't let me get in the way of wild speculation and paranoia or anything

I agree that a stove that is more efficient and burns less fuel for the same level of heat as an inefficient stove is a good thing. However where I think this line of thinking is going off track is that you believe a government standard will cause things to change in the right direction with no bad side effects. Given the government track record on just about every program I can cite their ability to efficiently and effectively do anything should be seriously questioned.

The rightful place for product improvements to stem from is the free market. If I go out and have to chop 6 cords of wood to get through the winter and you told me there was a stove company out there that could build a super efficient stove that would burn 1/3 less wood and create the same heat I would be the first to install it because it would require less chopping each year on my part. That is common sense. But when the government starts telling companies what to do and forcing a change that may or may not be technologically sound or possible then I have a problem.

The free market should drive improvements to products, services, and our lives, period.