Oh, no, this is a general J2SE distribution thing - I think the Java Plug In should arrived packaged like that or it'll never compete with Flash.

It's still no good for game deployment, where the only solution would be to have a bare VM and free license to distribute the core classes you need for your application, and embed the VM in your installation. Somehow. (I've given up on that anyway - it's Jet for me now).

Okay.. we're clearly out of summer, and still nothing.I guess that the specs will be huge, as it covers other apis and as far as my english skills permit me to understand, changes to those other apis may occur to accomodate jsr134.Wouldn't it be clever to release specs of the different nine domains of the jsr as soon as they are ready? I mean, it'll be very long to read and check if we get tons of docs to read on one shot. Starting the job ahead of time might get us to the implementation faster and give time for reading first domains.My 46¤cents

Maybe someone could clarify the timeline of the JCP and where the JGP Expert Group is in the process?

The way I have understood it, us non-JCP members will not get to see the spec for at least another four to six months or so. First it seems that the community release that was supposed to happen in Q3 got delayed, and even when that release does finally happen, us non-JCP members will have to wait another 3 or 4 months for the public release of the spec before we get to look at it, correct?

I may be a decent programmer, but I sure as heck don't have a clue when it comes to the differences between the various editions of Java. I admit that there are differences, but would it not have made sense for Java to have become nothing more than a JVM and Profiles for EVERYTHING? That is to say, J2ME and J2SE would refer to different JVMs, but nothing else, and everything else, such as java.lang.String, or javax.sound.*, be part of a profile?

Course, I could be suggesting more work for everyone, but it seems to me that this kind of defintion earlier on would have made it REALLY EASY to define the minimal set of code required to write a game in Java, either for a cellphone or for a PC, and therefore would make it pretty plain what to include/exclude from the Gaming Profile.

Then again, I could just be really frustrated at what I'm programming.

One thing is sure. JCP suffers from opacity. Not being able to at least know what is happening between the various persons and the direction things are headind discredits the process.JCP should be called FUD. (Finished at Undetermined Date)

one of the JGP's expert mebers is SONY. maybe xbox-next will be tied with direct X. GC may adopt JGP, but JGP's process is very very sloooow. No one knows JGP's timeline, spec, etc... And no one waits JGP's official debut eternally. Only Sony and Sun know its timeline, spec.

I don't think it is, in anyway, tied specifically to Sony. With the release of the PS2, Sony had developers on their back saying the API for the emotion engine was very difficult to use. As it stands today a developer has to write DirectX for the X-box, OpenGL for the GameCube and the whatever graphics API the emotion engine uses.

Console designers no longer get exclusive games by attempting to vendor lock a game, they get them by signing deals with the developers (or having their own in house developers). I think Sony will be moving towards an open standard to allow developers to both transfer their skills and to allow an easy porting to their console.

This paper, released last GDC, outlined the functionality of the JGP when we first started this. That's all I can say about it at this point. I know this lack of communication is frustrating, but we are trying to work through it. I'll keep everyone here posted.

- Sun appears to be working with Zona (http://www.zona.zom)- Zona is planning out issuing their own game related JSR near years end though it appears to be only network specific.- Java (and Sun) itself had zero presence at the GDC (outside of mobile devices)

Another potentially unrelated tidbit:

- JavaOne did not accept a number of papers regarding high performance gaming on Java

Disclaimer: my goal is to get information out and not to create rumors.

There was definitely Java presence at the GDC, though not as much as I would have liked.

There was a full-day "tutorial" on using Java for Gaming at the GDC, put on by the guys from Full Sail. Really excellent stuff. It started with using JNI and got more hardcore from there, so this was not a class on learning Java, but a class on really using it to create commercial games. Both strengths and limitations were discussed in great detail.

Jeff was there, and gave lots of helpful insights into some of the nitty-gritty internal details. Shawn Kendall was one of the presenters, and showed a cel-shader and some other cool graphics techniques, some of which are currently only accessible through JNI until J3D v1.4 (e.g. bumpmapping). The cel-shader was 100% Java, tho.

There were a bunch of people attending that session before lunch, and a bunch more afterwards, so people were definitely leaving other sessions and coming to see the Java stuff.

Sun was also at the show, but not with a visible presence -- just a breakout room. But they were definitely doing some wheeling and dealing, including Zona. Zona apparently has a Java API that is in alpha, and just waiting for a customer who wants it productionalized.

I have also heard that the gaming track at JavaOne is going through some turmoil, but hopefully Chris will let us all know when it's settled -- right, Chris?

Seriosuly though, it is going through some changes along with the rest of our game effort at Sun but Im pretty positive thatt he results will actually be closer to what many of you have said you wanted (and yes we have been listening even if we don't say anythign in response.)

I can say that I honestly feel Sun is more behind our effort, and yougame developers, then ever before. AND that all will be revealed at JavaOne.

JK

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