What's the point? Seriously? They traded almost all of their decent pitching away. Are they trying to avoid last place in a 4 team division?

Sockinchisox

11-10-2008, 01:36 PM

Interesting, wonder what prospects the Rockies got.

eaganmafia

11-10-2008, 01:36 PM

I'll reserve my judgement till I hear who the A's gaveup and if they can sign Holliday to a longterm deal.

sox1970

11-10-2008, 01:37 PM

Interesting, wonder what prospects the Rockies got.

It's almost impossible that a former Sox product isn't part of this.

doublem23

11-10-2008, 01:39 PM

It's almost impossible that a former Sox product isn't part of this.

Not if the Rockies have been paying attention.

Our prospects suck.

DSpivack

11-10-2008, 01:40 PM

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=107538

veeter

11-10-2008, 01:41 PM

Beane makes no sense to me.

sox1970

11-10-2008, 01:41 PM

Not if the Rockies have been paying attention.

Our prospects suck.

Gotta point, but just the percentages...

Chris Carter is a legit prospect. Sweeney had a decent year. Gio is raw, but with potential. Once he calms down and let's the curve work for him, he could be great.

Sargeant79

11-10-2008, 01:43 PM

Gotta point, but just the percentages...

Chris Carter is a legit prospect. Sweeney had a decent year. Gio is raw, but with potential. Once he calms down and let's the curve work for him, he could be great.

Don't forget Aaron Cunningham.

At this point, I consider it a surprising move. The A's (on paper anyway), don't appear ready to contend next year, and re-signing Holliday would go against everything their organization has historically done with respect to high priced free agents.

eaganmafia

11-10-2008, 01:44 PM

Beane makes no sense to me.

That's why I love him so much, you never know what that crazy son-a-bitch is gonan do.

Rockabilly

11-10-2008, 01:47 PM

great pick up for the A's

munchman33

11-10-2008, 01:49 PM

I did not see this coming.

Huisj

11-10-2008, 02:04 PM

great pick up for the A's

What does it really do for them though? Give them one year of an expensive outfielder. They stunk last year, and this doesn't exactly make them contenders.

Marqhead

11-10-2008, 02:07 PM

Holliday probably plays 4 months in Oakland, then they flip him at the break for more prospects.

ChiSoxFan81

11-10-2008, 02:07 PM

Maybe they are just setting up a trade to get Swisher back from the Sox.

oeo

11-10-2008, 02:10 PM

Billy Beane is stumping me. He trades everything away to rebuild one year ago, now he's dealing for this year? :scratch:

Why did the Rockies want to deal Holliday again?

Rockabilly

11-10-2008, 02:11 PM

What does it really do for them though? Give them one year of an expensive outfielder. They stunk last year, and this doesn't exactly make them contenders.

its a great start for their off season and fan base..

areilly

11-10-2008, 02:14 PM

Billy Beane is stumping me. He trades everything away to rebuild one year ago, now he's dealing for this year? :scratch:

Why did the Rockies want to deal Holliday again?

Beane might have looked at the state of the AL West and decided this is his time to strike. The Angels are going to be a year older, still without an offense and without at least three pivotal players, and the M's and Rangers are both in awful, awful shape.

manders_01

11-10-2008, 02:16 PM

Billy Beane is stumping me. He trades everything away to rebuild one year ago, now he's dealing for this year? :scratch:

Why did the Rockies want to deal Holliday again?

Too expensive - Dan O'Dowd's not willing to pay up.

eaganmafia

11-10-2008, 02:25 PM

This does more sense for Oakland the more I think about it. The West is weak outside of the Angels. Holliday, Cust and say Giambi (who I think is gonna return to Oakland) is a good middle of the lineup. Okaland has always pitched well and at worst they'll get some draft picks if he doesn't resign after the season.

Rocky Soprano

11-10-2008, 02:28 PM

That's why I love him so much, you never know what that crazy son-a-bitch is gonan do.

Yeah who cares about actually winning. :scratch:

KenBerryGrab

11-10-2008, 02:30 PM

The A's are reportedly hot on Furcal too. Why not? With the Angels aging and their kids not quite as good as they were touted, the West is there for the taking.

Lorenzo Barcelo

11-10-2008, 02:31 PM

According to yahoo.com, the Rockies will get Street, Carlos Gonzalez, and Greg Smith.

RockyMtnSoxFan

11-10-2008, 02:32 PM

I think it's a bad deal for both teams. It doesn't look like the Rockies are getting much in return, Holliday isn't that expensive in 09, and the A's are still pretty weak. I realize luck is a big factor in the post season if you can just get in, but you still have to have a good team.

chisoxmike

11-10-2008, 02:39 PM

Beane will probably trade Holliday at the deadline for more prospects.

Lorenzo Barcelo

11-10-2008, 02:41 PM

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=13

FarmerAndy

11-10-2008, 02:46 PM

Not yet official, and no specifics right now. But it's being reported that the Rockies and A's have a done deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3694100

Flight #24

11-10-2008, 02:55 PM

According to yahoo.com, the Rockies will get Street, Carlos Gonzalez, and Greg Smith.

IMO that's not a horrible return. Gonzalez was pretty highly thought of (ala TCQ in AZ, IIRC). Greg Smith is a young, cheap, and solid - if not dominating starter. And Street gives them at least a nominal replacement for Fuentes.

I'm surprised at the A's though. They might have a shot at the ALW this year if they make some more moves, but it wouldnt be a slam dunk, and they'd lose Holliday after the year. I'd probably have stuck with Gonzalez and Smith and dealt Street to try and position for a longer-term run.

Of course, all of this assumes that that's the deal.

turners56

11-10-2008, 02:58 PM

This is possibly the most random trade ever. I thought Billy Beane wanted prospects?

PaleHoser

11-10-2008, 03:00 PM

Looks like Ryan Sweeney could be on the move again.

I don't think Colorado would be getting enough pitching if this goes through as listed.

EDIT: MLB.com and CNNSI.com report Huston Street, Carlos Gonzalez and Greg Smith going to Colorado. That I think is a better deal for Colorado than the names mentioned in the ESPN story and would qualify as "enough pitching" IMO.

I highly HIGHLY doubt they get both Gonzalez AND Street. It would make 0 sense to trade Gonzalez.

hi im skot

11-10-2008, 03:40 PM

Swisher was awesome in Oakland, but now it'll be a Holliday there.

Hmmm. (http://www.instantrimshot.com/)

eaganmafia

11-10-2008, 03:40 PM

I highly HIGHLY doubt they get both Gonzalez AND Street. It would make 0 sense to trade Gonzalez.

Why?

btrain929

11-10-2008, 03:46 PM

Why?

Because C.Gonzalez is very young, very talented both offensively and defensively, and under control for the forseeable future. This will more than likely be a rental of Holliday. Why trade him?

TDog

11-10-2008, 03:49 PM

I highly HIGHLY doubt they get both Gonzalez AND Street. It would make 0 sense to trade Gonzalez.

The A's weren't going to hang on to Street. They were going to dump him in a trade. Gonzolez would surprise me because he looks like he could develop into an excellent centerfielder.

eaganmafia

11-10-2008, 03:49 PM

Carlos is a raw toolsy player similar to Carlos Gomez and I think injuries have taken their toll on Street (now an ordinary overpaid middle RP) and Smith is nothing special. It looks like Billy was able to take 3 players that didn't fit into their long-term plans and trade him for Holliday. And if the A's fall out of the race he can consider trading him at the deadline for something better. Or they get draft picks.

soxlug

11-10-2008, 04:05 PM

This could be the first of many moves for the A's, it is very, very early and maybe this shows some FA's that maybe the A's want to win now. I am sure some of us didn't completely understand trading for Cabrera, signing Uribe and Ramirez all what seemed like at once. Beane doesn't always make sense to me but he certainly has a plan or else he wouldn't be a GM.

btrain929

11-10-2008, 04:21 PM

This could be the first of many moves for the A's, it is very, very early and maybe this shows some FA's that maybe the A's want to win now. I am sure some of us didn't completely understand trading for Cabrera, signing Uribe and Ramirez all what seemed like at once. Beane doesn't always make sense to me but he certainly has a plan or else he wouldn't be a GM.

OK, Billy, you're awesome, we get it.

btrain929

11-10-2008, 04:22 PM

The A's weren't going to hang on to Street. They were going to dump him in a trade. Gonzolez would surprise me because he looks like he could develop into an excellent centerfielder.

Exactly. Street wouldn't surprise me nearly as much as C. Gonzalez.

Zisk77

11-10-2008, 04:24 PM

Holliday probably plays 4 months in Oakland, then they flip him at the break for more prospects.

1/2 Bingo. Holliday becomes a free agent I believ in a year and if they lose him (they will) they recoup type A draft picks. So Beane is gambling he'll get better draft picks than he is now giving up and makes it look like he is trying to win now for the fans. Remember he had a firesale when they A's still appeared to be in contention last year.

eaganmafia

11-10-2008, 04:34 PM

The A's weren't going to hang on to Street. They were going to dump him in a trade. Gonzolez would surprise me because he looks like he could develop into an excellent centerfielder.

Gonzales put up worse numbers then Carlos Gomezm, he's raw and a boom or bust prospect.

Easily worth taking the chance of moving while his value is still high.

soltrain21

11-10-2008, 05:56 PM

This could be the first of many moves for the A's, it is very, very early and maybe this shows some FA's that maybe the A's want to win now. I am sure some of us didn't completely understand trading for Cabrera, signing Uribe and Ramirez all what seemed like at once. Beane doesn't always make sense to me but he certainly has a plan or else he wouldn't be a GM.

Thanks for your analysis, Billy.

cws05champ

11-10-2008, 06:55 PM

Four pages and nobody has mentioned the 7 degrees of White Sox connection? Now that Gonzalez is in Colorado with Dexter Fowler coming up it opens up Tavaras and Street trade to the Sox!!! (half teal)

chitown13

11-10-2008, 06:55 PM

Rumor has it that the Rockies are prepared to flip Street to another ballclub. Perhaps Street and Tavaras heading out to somewhere we all know and love??? Just predicting obviously since KW has expressed interest in both of them at one time or another.

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/11618874

chitown13

11-10-2008, 06:57 PM

Four pages and nobody has mentioned the 7 degrees of White Sox connection? Now that Gonzalez is in Colorado with Dexter Fowler coming up it opens up Tavaras and Street trade to the Sox!!! (half teal)

a few seconds ahead of me :stars:

oeo

11-10-2008, 07:20 PM

Rumor has it that the Rockies are prepared to flip Street to another ballclub. Perhaps Street and Tavaras heading out to somewhere we all know and love??? Just predicting obviously since KW has expressed interest in both of them at one time or another.

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/11618874

Makes sense. Then Bobby could be headed to New York.

JermaineDye05

11-10-2008, 07:26 PM

Makes sense. Then Bobby could be headed to New York.

Wow, you just blew my mind.

That certainly would be an interesting turn of events.

oeo

11-10-2008, 07:37 PM

Wow, you just blew my mind.

That certainly would be an interesting turn of events.

What would have been hilarious is if Gio was a part of the Holliday deal. Then imagine the speculation...Gio back to the Sox? :lol:

cards press box

11-10-2008, 11:08 PM

Rumor has it that the Rockies are prepared to flip Street to another ballclub. Perhaps Street and Tavaras heading out to somewhere we all know and love??? Just predicting obviously since KW has expressed interest in both of them at one time or another.

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/11618874

Who could the Sox trade for Huston Street and Willy Taveras? We know the Sox are shopping Javier Vazquez but he has a no-trade clause to the NL West and AL West teams. I suppose the Sox could deal him to a third team such as the Mets for player(s) who would go to Colorado for Street and Taveras. The Sox might also deal Nick Swisher for Street and Taveras. Swisher could play the outfield for Colorado and eventually replace Todd Helton at 1B. I wonder what the Sox will do.

TheOldRoman

11-10-2008, 11:13 PM

Makes sense. Then Bobby could be headed to New York.Yeah, but the rumor had Bobby traded for Beltran. Why would we get Taveras if we were getting a CF in the next trade?

FedEx227

11-10-2008, 11:14 PM

The Mets aren't stupid enough to part with Beltran for Bobby straight up. I'm sorry, but there's a lot more coming from our side in that deal.

manders_01

11-10-2008, 11:15 PM

Bye Matty, I'll miss you! You were a joy to watch. :gulp:

oeo

11-10-2008, 11:15 PM

Who could the Sox trade for Huston Street and Willy Taveras? We know the Sox are shopping Javier Vazquez but he has a no-trade clause to the NL West and AL West teams. I suppose the Sox could deal him to a third team such as the Mets for player(s) who would go to Colorado for Street and Taveras. The Sox might also deal Nick Swisher for Street and Taveras. Swisher could play the outfield for Colorado and eventually replace Todd Helton at 1B. I wonder what the Sox will do.

Vazquez will have no interest to the Rockies. Two guys the Rockies have had interest in: Broadway and Poreda. Obviously it would take more than Broadway, but if we're giving up Poreda, Kenny should look for a bigger return than a reliever and a #9 hitter/4th outfielder.

Who knows who else they might have interest in. Richard is a possibility. Brandon Allen? John Shelby?

Yeah, but the rumor had Bobby traded for Beltran. Why would we get Taveras if we were getting a CF in the next trade?

The rumor had Beltran coming back, but that doesn't mean he's the only guy that's of interest. Besides, the offseason wouldn't be over. Dye would likely have to be dealt then, and Swisher would probably be going over in the Mets deal.

Honestly, the chances of all that happening are slim...a lot would have to go right, and things rarely happen that way. I'm just trying to put the pieces together.

manders_01

11-10-2008, 11:16 PM

Who could the Sox trade for Huston Street and Willy Taveras? We know the Sox are shopping Javier Vazquez but he has a no-trade clause to the NL West and AL West teams. I suppose the Sox could deal him to a third team such as the Mets for player(s) who would go to Colorado for Street and Taveras. The Sox might also deal Nick Swisher for Street and Taveras. Swisher could play the outfield for Colorado and eventually replace Todd Helton at 1B. I wonder what the Sox will do.

I'd have no problem with Swish coming to CO. :thumbsup:

JermaineDye05

11-10-2008, 11:36 PM

I don't know if a package of say Vazquez/Bobby/Dye would be enough for Beltran

or

if Vazquez/Bobby can get Beltran since Minaya loves Beltran so much.

Then you could possibly send Dye and someone else for Taveras and Street.

You're outfield would then shape up with Taveras in Left, Beltran in Center and TCQ goes back to his original position in right. I would think that Street would then become your closer. However I don't think Taveras would be your lead off guy, someone stated in a previous thread that he'd be a great 9 hitter and I'd agree with that. That would then leave Kenny with a hole at the lead off spot still, he could maybe try and get Figgins for third and keep Getz at second to be your second baseman and possible #2 hitter Or he could sign this Viceodo and trade for Roberts, and have Fields and Viceodo battle it out for 3rd assuming Fields isn't traded.

Since this is not a video game, maybe one or 2 of these things happen. Rarely do teams fix every hole on their roster in 1 offseason.

The one thing which concerns me in trading Vazquez is you leave a hole in your rotation and I don't know if Kenny has the payroll to go out and get a good #3 or #4 starter.

oeo

11-10-2008, 11:41 PM

Since this is not a video game, maybe one or 2 of these things happen. Rarely do teams fix every hole on their roster in 1 offseason.

I think it's definitely possible that we fill our holes, it just doesn't happen in two deals like this. The Mets deal would be a blockbuster, and the Rockies deal could be a blockbuster, and if not, at least a very big deal. Although Kenny is always looking to make that big splash, he rarely does make it. Maybe his luck changes this offseason...that would be a nice change, but I'm not expecting it.

One thing I will say: Kenny appears to have more flexibility than we first thought.

TDog

11-10-2008, 11:52 PM

Rumor has it that the Rockies are prepared to flip Street to another ballclub. Perhaps Street and Tavaras heading out to somewhere we all know and love??? Just predicting obviously since KW has expressed interest in both of them at one time or another.

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/11618874

I certainly hope the White Sox don't acquire Street. If they do, I certainly hope they don't expect him to close. Street in Oakland in 2008 wasn't much better than Koch in Chicago in 2003.

Street in the closing role is a disaster waiting to happen.

oeo

11-11-2008, 08:41 AM

I certainly hope the White Sox don't acquire Street. If they do, I certainly hope they don't expect him to close. Street in Oakland in 2008 wasn't much better than Koch in Chicago in 2003.

Street in the closing role is a disaster waiting to happen.

Are you kidding me? Do you remember Koch in 2003?

Street had a rough June, but other than that was pretty solid. He also finished the year off nicely, only allowing 3 ER's in his final 19.2 innings.

munchman33

11-11-2008, 08:53 AM

I certainly hope the White Sox don't acquire Street. If they do, I certainly hope they don't expect him to close. Street in Oakland in 2008 wasn't much better than Koch in Chicago in 2003.

Street in the closing role is a disaster waiting to happen.

Koch had a very rare muscle degeneration disorder that it wasn't possible to overcome. Street was working through an injury lots of guys work through.

But you're right, basically the same thing.

eaganmafia

11-11-2008, 08:55 AM

Are you kidding me? Do you remember Koch in 2003?

Street had a rough June, but other than that was pretty solid. He also finished the year off nicely, only allowing 3 ER's in his final 19.2 innings.

Small sample size, injuries have take their toll on Street. I says something when the Rockies who need a closer are willing to turn around move Street.

oeo

11-11-2008, 09:40 AM

Small sample size, injuries have take their toll on Street. I says something when the Rockies who need a closer are willing to turn around move Street.

It says something alright...that they want somebody else. Otherwise, why even acquire him? :?: It's not like they got him, then weeks later found out it was a bad idea. If they're looking to move him right away, they have something else lined up.

Again, Street had one bad month; the rest of his year was very good. And 20 innings is actually a pretty big sample size for a reliever.

Again, Street had one bad month. The rest of his year was very good. And 20 innings is actually a pretty big sample size for a reliever.

What about the 3.97 era in July and 4.15 era in August?

Street is not a a good closer anymore, he's a average middle of the road relief arm. Beane did well to get good value for him still.

oeo

11-11-2008, 09:47 AM

What about the 3.97 era in July and 4.15 era in August?

He started out his August rough, but turned it around, and that's when he finished off his year well. His bad month was from about the end of June to early August. What about his 2.53 ERA in April, his 3.00 ERA in May, and his 1.74 ERA in September?

Street is not a a good closer anymore, he's a average middle of the road relief arm. Beane did well to get good value for him still.Aren't you a FOBB? Sure sounds like it.

eaganmafia

11-11-2008, 09:51 AM

He started out his August rough, but turned it around, and that's when he finished off his year well. What about his 2.53 ERA in April, his 3.00 ERA in May, and his 1.74 ERA in September?

Aren't you a FOBB? Sure sounds like it.

Street isn't a good closer anymore, he's still living off what he did in past seasons.

What's a FOBB?

oeo

11-11-2008, 09:52 AM

Street isn't a good closer anymore, he's still living off what he did in past seasons.

I mean, give me something more than that. At least tell me he's had a drastic drop in velocity, or his stuff has turned to complete ****. Which after a nice finish to his season, is hard to believe.

What's a FOBB?Friend of Billy Beane.

eaganmafia

11-11-2008, 09:59 AM

I am a fan of Billy Beane cause I think he knows what the hell he is doing. He knew when to rebuild the farm system and now I believe he's going to start putting together the team that's going to overtake the Angels stronghold on the AL West. He's pretty much built the systems that the Yankees and Red Sox have perfected.

KenBerryGrab

11-11-2008, 10:05 AM

What about the 3.97 era in July and 4.15 era in August?

Street is not a a good closer anymore, he's a average middle of the road relief arm. Beane did well to get good value for him still.

This is very true. I have a good friend who is an A's fan. He wants Street gone; yesterday would not be soon enough.

Rough quote when talking about Street's proposed move to Colorado:
"His slider already has flattened into a meatball. Can you imagine it in thin air?"

TDog

11-11-2008, 11:01 AM

Are you kidding me? Do you remember Koch in 2003?

Street had a rough June, but other than that was pretty solid. He also finished the year off nicely, only allowing 3 ER's in his final 19.2 innings.

I was at the Cell for a game in 2003 when Koch got a save by striking out the only three hitters he faced in the ninth, but I was at the park for some markedly worse outings as well. I don't compare Street to Koch lightly.

Street had an awful summer. I found it comical, being someone who hates the A's, to see him fail so often in key situations. Health-wise, he isn't the pitcher he was a couple of years ago. For some team, he will be a bullpen problem waiting to happen. How big of a problem will depend on how much responsibility he is given. He might do well as a functioning middle-innings reliever.

If the Sox were to trade Jenks and bring in Street as a closer, fans would be in for a long season of watching other teams contend.

Street simply isn't a very good pitcher anymore.

Tragg

11-11-2008, 11:28 AM

Are we sure that STreet is healthy and not all used up? Or is he a Koch?

russ99

11-11-2008, 11:42 AM

Is it just me or is the take on this deal a bit on the underwhelming side? For a player of Holliday's quality, I'd expect a lot more.

I guess the Rockies got desperate not wanting to deal with Boras next year.

And Jenks, Vazquez and Dye is way too much for Beltran, who's vastly overrated. Other than the age and contract differences, I'd take Dye over Beltran any day.

palehozenychicty

11-11-2008, 11:51 AM

Is it just me or is the take on this deal a bit on the underwhelming side? For a player of Holliday's quality, I'd expect a lot more.

I guess the Rockies got desperate not wanting to deal with Boras next year.

And Jenks, Vazquez and Dye is way too much for Beltran, who's vastly overrated. Other than the age and contract differences, I'd take Dye over Beltran any day.

I've been a Beltran critic for awhile, but I don't think that Dye is an overall better player. Beltran can impact a game so many other ways with his defense, gap and overall power, and speed. Dye's defensive range is no longer acceptable, but he positions himself well, and still has great power.

Dye is a far grittier player and a great gentleman of the game, but let's be real. Beltran would be an excellent addition that would improve our team on several levels.

oeo

11-11-2008, 11:53 AM

Other than the age and contract differences, I'd take Dye over Beltran any day.

And stellar centerfield defense. And the ability to steal 25+ bases. All while having the same power (in the Cell, for sure), and around the same average. Dye isn't even close to the overall player Beltran is.

russ99

11-11-2008, 11:55 AM

I've been a Beltran critic for awhile, but I don't think that Dye is an overall better player. Beltran can impact a game so many other ways with his defense, gap and overall power, and speed. Dye's defensive range is no longer acceptable, but he positions himself well, and still has great power.

Dye is a far grittier player and a great gentleman of the game, but let's be real. Beltran would be an excellent addition that would improve our team on several levels.

I see your point, but it seems to me Beltran is more highly rated due to his perceived "tools" than what he actually does on the field.

I may have taken it a bit too far, but I'd still think we'd need to significantly reduce that proposed trade offer.

Tragg

11-11-2008, 11:55 AM

Is he Jenks + Vazquez better?

oeo

11-11-2008, 11:56 AM

Are we sure that STreet is healthy and not all used up? Or is he a Koch?

As has already been mentioned, Koch was not 'all used up.' He suffered from some muscle degeneration disorder.

eaganmafia

11-11-2008, 12:05 PM

I see your point, but it seems to me Beltran is more highly rated due to his perceived "tools" than what he actually does on the field.

Dye Career OPS+ 112
Beltran Career OPS+ 118

Now throw in Beltrans speed, defense at a premium position and it's not even close.

Tragg

11-11-2008, 12:13 PM

For how many more years is Beltran signed?

jcw218

11-12-2008, 03:58 PM

Apparently the deal is official. Holliday to the A's for Smith, Street, and Gonzalez.