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I have been struggling this week. Smoldering feelings below the surface. Mostly I am wondering if I made the right decision, filing for divorce. My WH seems to be finally getting it together. I know he has a lot to overcome and I am still thinking this is the right decision. But, doubt is there in the back corner of my mind.

Last week I met him to have a conversation. It didn't change much for me and I told him after that I didn't want to text anymore but that he could email me. It's easier for me to avoid responding to an email and I wanted to see if he really is making progress or not (bad, I know). So the first email a few days ago is some cryptic quotes about love. It upset me and even got a few tears in the shower while I was getting ready for work on Thursday. But, I was crying because it reinforced that I loved him this entire time and that he didn't. I stuck it out. Friday I got 2 more emails, short and sweet, saying how sorry he was and how much he missed me and how badly he felt for hurting me. Then, in a moment of weakness yesterday I responded to the email with some quotes of my own about how love is vulnerability and allowed you to be hurt. One good one talked about how love is a fire that can either warm your hearth or burn down your house. He responded today, saying that he knew he had hurt me and that it hurt so much because I loved him.

UGH. He got me. It stung and I took the bait. Hook. Line. Sinker. I wrote back a zinger.

Then....he showed up over here. Sad, begging, and (maybe?) remorseful. I feel like he might actually be starting to get it. F. He can't start to get it. He's not getting it, right? He said he wanted to show me that he's changed but he can't with no communication or interaction. This is true and I know it. But is it just a manipulation tactic? How do some of y'all make it through a 6 or 12 month mandatory separation?? I can't even take 30 days. F F F.

Even worse I was NOT looking very cute (think glasses, stretchy pants and slippers). Dang it. I don't want to make too much of an effort but it wouldn't be bad if he saw me at my best, not my worst. I blame the blizzard. And myself.

"The wishbone will never replace the backbone." -Will Henry
"This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it." -Dorothy Parker

Posts: 211 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States

SBB♀ 35229Member # 35229

Posted: 5:46 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

Ignore.His.Words.

Watch.His.Actions.

Read the Hoovering thread. This play is in the Cheaters Handbook.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=480828

I posted my own final S email exchange a while ago. Look how pretty his words were? Read this knowing the venom that he unleashed on me shortly afterwards and still tries to spew on me to this day.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=500928&HL=35229

You don't need him to be sorry. Sorry doesn't get you into True R. Regret doesn't get you into True R. True Remorse is rare and doesn't come for a very long time.

You need him to fix WTF-ever is wrong with him. You need to fix WTFever is wrong with you too.

Someone here (I think it was NIK?) once said "the wailing and rendering of garments is because they don't want things to change". Its not remorse, its regret for themselves.

Aesir said it best when he said its very very difficult to not attempt R with what appears to be a remorseful WS.

It seems selfish because it is. I will say if he is truly remorseful it won't matter that you are proceeding with D. He will still do the work and he will be a decent co-parent with you.

Unfortunately there is a greater chance that this act will stop once he realises his manipulation tactics no longer work on you and you'll once again see the face of the monster that did this to you in the first place. That has been my experience.

There is no venom in True Remorse. Whether in R or S/D.

I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5988 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia

Vulcanized♀ 33523Member # 33523

Posted: 5:52 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

There is no venom in True Remorse. Whether in R or S/D.

I'ma go with this. Times 4,000,000.

I don't feel like I can offer any real advice, having had a totally unrepentant WW XH.

Me: fBW/MH 40s
3.26.13: Liberation day: D'd the whiny turd after being saddled with a serial cheating, NPD, jitbag 10 years too long
Now: happy in life, happily in love with the RIGHT man -----> Everything is as it should be

Posts: 940 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: The Hostile City

Take2♀ 23890Member # 23890

Posted: 7:11 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

I got a lot of pretty words, (hell I still do on occasion) and I saw tears for a while, which I learned to recognize as regret and feeling sorry for himself. How? It wasn't consistent, there was still venom too. But mostly it was because when I put myself in his shoes and thought about what I would do if the situation was reversed, he wasn't even scratching the surface.

"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4430 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England

7yrsflushed♂ 32258Member # 32258

Posted: 8:56 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

You want to know if it's real? Keep moving forward with the D process. If he is truly remoresful there is nothing stopping him from making the changes he needs and showing you that with consistent actions over time. Has he gone to IC, has he given you complete transparency even if you are NC? He could still give you his passwords. If he is serious then even if you follow through and D him then he will continue to do the work and you both can start over after the D is final. Either way you need to completely detach from him to put yourself on a somewhat even emotional playing field with him. He detached from you along time ago when he started the A. When you are detached then his flowery words and displays of emotion won't sway you one way or the other. You can actually look to see what actions he is doing versus just talk.

Trust your gut, when he came over did he tell you how many IC sessions he had been to and had he figured out why he cheated or did he just tell you hwo much he missed you and loved you? Stay strong, many of us have seen our WS's flip from good to evil once they realize the hoovering won't work. Better to suffer through detachment now then years later after false R.

D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 2082 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA

atsenaotie♂ 27650Member # 27650

Posted: 9:04 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

Trust your gut, when he came over did he tell you how many IC sessions he had been to and had he figured out why he cheated or did he just tell you hwo much he missed you and loved you?

^^^^ What 7yrs posted.

My WH seems to be finally getting it together.

Even if or when he does ever "get it", that is just the first step of a long path. There is identifying and owning his issues which typically involves some not very fun IC work. Then there is practicing alternative behaviors and responses, and this too takes months.

Think about your connection and attachment to your WH and M. Is it to who he actually has shown himself to be, or the person and M you want and thought that you had?

LTA FBS
dday 10.5.09
Divorced

Posts: 4173 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL

NeverAgain2013♀ 38121Member # 38121

Posted: 10:05 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

Oh boy.

I'm the QUEEN of actually believing a lying cheater who was suddenly SO VERY VERY VERY VERY sorry and ashamed of how he treated me.

Yes sir.

For the first few weeks when I came back to him, he was a choir boy.

Then, eventually, I started seeing the cracks at the seams. Seems his ACTIONS were having a real rough time keeping up with the check he'd written with his mouth via his empty words.

I can pretty much guarantee if you let your guard down, he'll be all over it and within weeks, pulling the same shit he pulled in order to GET to the place you're at now.

He doesn't deserve the gift of your forgiveness or the effort YOU'D need to expend to trust him and allow him back into your life. He forfeited that right and privilege BY CHOICE.

Let me repeat that.

By CHOICE.

To allow him back in - simply because he's showering you with sugary words that sure sound purdy - would be a collassal mistake.

Let him EARN his way back in.

And that will take TIME, effort, and dedication.

Don't start doubting your decision to divorce. You made that decision for a REASON. Don't let him cloud your mind with empty promises that he may or may NOT fulfill.

He's got a crap track record. Showing up at your door and crying doesn't make it all go away.

Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 6327 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA

StillLivin♀ 40229Member # 40229

Posted: 10:09 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

I went ahead and bumped the hoovering post. I needed it as a reminder too. I'm not taking my WS back, but I was starting to feel pity for him. He doesn't deserve it, he's just a big ol jerk.
I hope your WS isn't just hoovering, but only time will tell. You have gotten some awesome advice from some Vets here at SI.
Please take their advice and watch his actions.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 10:22 AM, January 6th (Monday)]

"Bitch please a good man can't be stolen." ROFLMAO - SBB
D: 7/2/2014

Posts: 3838 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: AZ

gonnabe2016♀ 34823Member # 34823

Posted: 10:26 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

It is classic Hoovering.

he knew he had hurt me and that it hurt so much because I loved him.

Does his psychoanalysis of you not piss you off?
My stbx has a pretty twisted thought process and he would repeatedly *tell* me that I loved him. It came across as arrogant and smug to me. And manipulative.....like, since I loved him so much, I should 'put up' with and forgive his failings.

And then there's this:

He said he wanted to show me that he's changed but he can't with no communication or interaction

This is also controlling and manipulative.....used to *guilt* you into interacting with him.

I also would be very wary of the word tenses that he's used. He's telling you that he's *changed.* Wrong Answer. Change is a process -- his attitude should be that he is *changing*. See the difference?

Him just 'showing up' is also about control (not to mention rude). Next time he just 'shows up' without asking if you are available first....don't open the door.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

Posts: 9173 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest

badmedicine♀ 41692Member # 41692

Posted: 12:23 PM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

Thank you, everyone. Some of this was harsh in a good way and I know it's true.

I did answer the door but I didn't let him in. We only talked for ~5 minutes.

He has gone to IC a few times. This was something he dragged his feet on and didn't even have an appointment until either right after he got served or right before. So 4 months went by for him with no IC. He did read some books (How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair and Too Good to Stay, Too Bad to Leave) and we discussed them. He has told me by email and also in 2 different conversations about some of the things he is learning about himself and how this happened (being lonely, not identifying the relationship as inappropriate early enough, projecting his stress onto me/us, conflict avoidance, thinking he could "fix" it on his own without hurting me...) and I also think when he said he knew that it hurt because I loved him he meant that he understood why it was so painful for me, not that it was proof that I still had feelings and should give him another chance. Actually, I thought the use of the past tense there was more interesting. He has also said on more than one occasion that he realizes that he overpromised on dday and then wasn't emotionally or mentally ready to do the work he needed to do. I think he was so caught up in himself (duh) that he had no clue how devastating this would be for me. I think the anger he predicted but the overwhelming pain and sorrow was much more than he thought. Being faced with this and with the reality (our MC saw him twice after dday and did NOT go easy on him) was too much and his lack of coping skills/self-analysis failed. He says that he has changed but he knows it is just the beginning. What has changed is his perception of himself and how he was able to do this.

I did and do have good reasons for filing for divorce. I guess what I want to know from some of you who suggest that I can still judge his actions is this: how do I do that while maintaining some version of NC? My state has a 30-day waiting period and it's half over. I guess it's all happening fast. I know I can always marry him again in a year or two if this ends up being the turning point. I just don't want to represent R to him if I'm not really committed. But, somehow I want to see if he really is this time. Is that twisted? Yes, probably. I haven't called my lawyer to change anything and I have only seen him outside of work three times since he got served. Twice he showed up uninvited and I sent him away without letting him in. Once was an agreed-to meeting. Not saying I'm doing awesome; I read the emails and I responded.

"The wishbone will never replace the backbone." -Will Henry
"This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it." -Dorothy Parker

Posts: 211 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States

lifestoshort♀ 18442Member # 18442

Posted: 12:46 PM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

No venum in true remorse. best words of wisdom, ever.

6/07 EX had MANY affairs.
FALSE Reconciles. cheats again. D 5/09 but still hurting from the after mass.

Posts: 780 | Registered: Mar 2008

BAB61♀ 41181Member # 41181

Posted: 6:36 PM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

You sound conflicted, which to me means you realize he's not where he needs to be to truly R with you.