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You should make a distinction between part-time and full-time carriage for channels other than RSNs—for instance, Fox Soccer Plus HD is a full-time channel which DirecTV only carries part-time, while ESPN 3D and NFL RedZone are part-time channels on any carrier. Using a different color for part-time carriage would also allow you to have just one list of RSNs.

Yes, I am thinking of doing something like that. Those changes will likely come tomorrow.Thank you.

That's a nice chart. Should "HD" be in the thread title, because the chart seems to be exclusive to HD. I'm on Dish for the internationals and I'd like to see how Dish stacks up against DirecTV and Verizon.

I would suggest instead of showing RED blocks on the DirecTV side for the part-time RSNs section where D* provides that RSN full-time that you use a different color and put a note in the squares like "Full Time". Otherwise someone just skimming might get the wrong idea.

I know this is DBSTalk, but I must say I miss not having the other providers in the list as well, because when my D* contract ends, I'll be considering the entire universe of options open to me in making a decision on what to do going forward.

But good work.

And credit/link whats-his-name anyway, even if you do it in a left-handed fashion like ". . . and I did this list because I found his original to be unsatisfactory for reasons A, B, C. . . "

The other thing that occurred to me to do is to split the "Standard HD" into "Standard HD (Sports)" and "Standard HD (non-sports)". The first of those would include the dedicated sports channels like the ESPNs, Versus, Golf HD, etc.

The reason for doing so is you'd then be able to have a subtotal for sports in total (including that and the RSNs and sports premiums).

My theory is that people tend to relate to their programming needs in at least 3 catagories --sports, non-sports, and premiums-- and those catagories impact their decision making.

You could probably make an argument for subsetting movies the same way, so you could have a subtotal for Standard movie channels (AMC, TCM, whatever) plus premiums. so that the first catagory becomes "Standard HD (non-sports general)", "Standard HD (movies)" and "Standard HD (sports)".

Instead of breaking non-sports general and movies out of their blocks in the detail list, you could use different colors than green (or different shades of green) for them if the provider has it and leave them in their current blocks.

The other thing that occurred to me to do is to split the "Standard HD" into "Standard HD (Sports)" and "Standard HD (non-sports)". The first of those would include the dedicated sports channels like the ESPNs, Versus, Golf HD, etc.

The reason for doing so is you'd then be able to have a subtotal for sports in total (including that and the RSNs and sports premiums).

My theory is that people tend to relate to their programming needs in at least 3 catagories --sports, non-sports, and premiums-- and those catagories impact their decision making.

You could probably make an argument for subsetting movies the same way, so you could have a subtotal for Standard movie channels (AMC, TCM, whatever) plus premiums. so that the first catagory becomes "Standard HD (non-sports general)", "Standard HD (movies)" and "Standard HD (sports)".

Instead of breaking non-sports general and movies out of their blocks in the detail list, you could use different colors than green (or different shades of green) for them if the provider has it and leave them in their current blocks.

Just a suggestion. . . .

While the sports/non-sports may make sense, tyring to identify "movie" channels vs non-movie channels may get tough. So many channels now days (even those that started out as movie channels) show a variety of programming. You run into too many different opinions of what is a movie channel and what isn't.

The detail is there, so people can count the channels however they want. The counts may give a general idea to people, but the detail is the important part. (It doesn't matter how much HD a provider has, if the channels you watch aren't in HD.)

Regarding the "RSNs are useless" vs "RSN's aren't useless" debate, it occurred to me it might be worthwhile for somebody to canvass those RSNs for their unique locally produced content that is not blacked out, to make that case more objectively.

Here's more: In the body of each table, please use another color than green for the background behind the current HD channel names. It would be less confusing. And I think a key, or legend, is needed to remind the reader that green means Yes and red means No.

wow ...I don't know about this one ... D* full court Channels are SD only ..however if the game is in HD on the RSN it comes through there in HD (Although I also sub to the Sports pack so it may just be me) anyways ... is this just Dish not having Full time HD RSNs so they put the games that we can get in HD on the Fulltime RSNs in "fullcourt" even though we at D* get the same (or more I guess if the game is on YES or any RSN that Dish doesn't get) games in HD ...

seems like it shouldn't be counted for Dish to me but I really don't like giving D* credit for it either ... this is different than the Game Plan scenario where many games are not on RSNs (ABC alt games) but are NOT shown in HD in the Game Plan channels

Here's more: In the body of each table, please use another color than green for the background behind the current HD channel names. It would be less confusing. And I think a key, or legend, is needed to remind the reader that green means Yes and red means No.

I have a key in the master document now. I just haven't finished it in order to upload it yet. What color would folks recommend behind the text of the channel names?

wow ...I don't know about this one ... D* full court Channels are SD only ..however if the game is in HD on the RSN it comes through there in HD (Although I also sub to the Sports pack so it may just be me) anyways ... is this just Dish not having Full time HD RSNs so they put the games that we can get in HD on the Fulltime RSNs in "fullcourt" even though we at D* get the same (or more I guess if the game is on YES or any RSN that Dish doesn't get) games in HD ...

seems like it shouldn't be counted for Dish to me but I really don't like giving D* credit for it either ... this is different than the Game Plan scenario where many games are not on RSNs (ABC alt games) but are NOT shown in HD in the Game Plan channels

I agree...I don't know either. We need more feedback from both DirecTV and Dish Subs. I am not familiar enough with Full Court.

The list has been updated. I added a third color for part-time channels, changed the background color behind the names of each channel, and combined the full-time and part-time RSN channels into one section.

When I get a moment I am going to clean up the RSN sections. They are not in any particular order...just scattered about as I tried to make sure I had them all. They will be alphabetized. Also, some FSN channels are listed as "FS" while others are listed as "FSN" and I will fix those inconsistencies.

Yes, I agree. I'll add those two at some point on Friday and the others when they become available.

Thank you !... The AVS "policy" to exclude these type of National HD Networks makes no sense in today's multi-distribution landscape....And thus, results in an incomplete/misleading look at national HD distribution...

ESPN Monday Night Football games get broadcast/over-the-air affiliates' distribution every week in the 2 teams home markets, yet I don't see AVS excluding ESPN from their List....I'm sure there are many other examples out there....

I, think if anybody takes the time to view the chart in full you made it seems easy to compare DirecTv to Dish.It,s interesting that on premium channels on services they both have DirecTv has way more Starz & Showtime channels but, Dish has more Cinamax &HBO .Also, it does seem funny that the 2 shopping channels QVC & HSN would not have carriage after a year of going HD. Seems they are losing alot of subs. between the 2 services.

I, think if anybody takes the time to view the chart in full you made it seems easy to compare DirecTv to Dish.It,s interesting that on premium channels on services they both have DirecTv has way more Starz & Showtime channels but, Dish has more Cinamax &HBO .Also, it does seem funny that the 2 shopping channels QVC & HSN would not have carriage after a year of going HD. Seems they are losing alot of subs. between the 2 services.

I wonder, though, how many actual purchases do they lose due to lack of HD? I'd think not many.

Great job, Hoosier.

Equipment includes a buncha stuff that I no longer have interest in detailing

I like what you did in combining the RSNs blocks and changing the color for full-time vs part-time. Much easier to understand. I don't think you should have added them together for the summary at the top, however, as that loses the value of the distinction entirely. And part of the argument is that distinction *is* valuable.