Was Alonso's supposedly 'great year' just because of the tyre mess? Did he actually perform better on skill or just a huge beneficiary of Pirelli situation manufactured by the Italians?

It was more of a case that he was performing average in a mediocre car for the whole of the year, while the other top drivers had upturns in performance at the start and end flyaway parts of the championship and suffered catastrophically because of the Pirellis for most of the mid season?

Ferrari was heating its tyres badly and it just happened to rather suit them once many drivers began complaining rather seriously about the choice of compounds Pirelli had brought.

Were Pirelli bringing the wrong tyre compounds to give their Italian compatriots a helping hand? Much like Bridgestone suited their tyres for Ferrari? Were Pirelli doing the opposite to achieve the same result? Were they levelling the field with useless rubber?

Could it be that with the Ferraris sliding so uncontrollably at Melbourne, Pirelli were losing face in their home country?May they have decided to supply less suitable, unpredictable tyres that would be of little use to teams with a fine setup to drive on the limit?

Maybe they were even deliberately supplying compounds that would work better with the Ferrari & Sauber's average working temperature rather than the best for racing? Putting the others off track?

Jenson Button (supposed to be the smoothest driver on tyres) was adamant his car troubles (which started at the beginning of the European season as well) were not due to the tyres since he had a good start of the year but eventually backtracked and suggested he couldn't understand them at all.

Is Pirelli upset maybe that they haven't yet been able to get exposure alongside a championship winning Ferrari? Do they want every Italian child to have the 1:16 Ferrari WDC winning model with their name along the wheels for xmas to sit on the mantelpiece as a family heirloom reminding every dad which tyre brand to pick for the family saloon? Is having an Italian tyre company good for F1 when Italy has only one team it supports? Can Pirelli effectively wipe out British teams' advantage and months of car data by providing a less than optimum tyre selection? Flavio Briatore seems to think so:

Quote:

"That's something that should give food for thought to engineers that burn up huge budgets in simulators and windtunnels," Flavio Briatore said. "It's money thrown out of the window when Pirelli comes in with a super job with the tyres: everything else doesn't count anymore." http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99932

A bit bizarre to describe it as a "super job" when everyone else is lamenting them?

Given Alonso's track record with Michelin, mass dampers, crashgate, spygate (just after Santander joined McLaren), banned team orders, etc, am I just being paranoid? Or have Pirellis just always been this way?

And yes I am the guy who made that Fishy Paella topic in the old forum that immediately linked NPJ's crash to Flavio-don't-post-that-pic-Briatore helping Alonso. In case you were wondering.

I want some other opinions on this and whatever sources I may not have covered, but the main question is were Pirelli trying to benefit Ferrari?

The days of custom tyres are long gone. Everyone gets the same stuff these days.

The question is not whether everyone is getting the same stuff, it's whether that stuff is being designed to suit Ferrari. I don't think it's as ridiculous an idea as the opening replies are making out, though obviously there's absolutely no evidence to support it at this stage so there's not really much that canm be discussed on the matter without resorting to pointless conjecture.

When Pirelli designed the tyres the F2012 hadn't been anywhere Tarmac so how could they design the tyres around the car?

Even Ferrari were a bit puzzled by the handling characteristics of the car. So they couldn't have given Pirelli a dossier of wants based on what they were expecting from the car. Well they could have but it would have been wrong

What flavio's comments really tell us about is his mind set; hatred of boffin engineering geeks who spend too much money that doesn't create a lovely show getting their come-uppence due to the tyres... And that since car design is negated, driver ability wins out. Hence FA's natural dominance.

However, he made these comments in may, by season's end the overall picture was much the same as the last four years or more... So the engineers and geeks eventually 'won' as they always do.

If the likes of flavio was in charge of Ferrari, then I'd quite believe that such a conspiracy could develop, but I think that todt is essentially trustworthy and predictable: he will support the best interests of his employers - and that isn't in fixing the wcc/wdc one way or the other.

It's certainly not the most unbelievable conspiracy theory I've read, especially recently! I don't know if it can be proven that this year's Pirelli's suited Ferrari more than others though. Earlier in the season various teams hit the tyre sweet spot almost randomly it seemed, McLaren at Aus, Sauber at Mal (wet), Lotus at Bahrain, Williams-Spain, Red Bull-Valencia.

Last year I remember it being very fishy that the hard tyres were almost retired for the season after Ferrari suffered so badly with them in the Spanish GP. To refresh people's memory, Alonso led the race on the softer tyre before struggling really badly on the hard's - to the extent that he was lapped by the leaders, (Vettel & Hamilton).

It's an interesting conspiracy theory, but reeks of misplaced nationalism. But NO, everyone had the same tires.

In fact, I'd like to take this further, and in fact, the end result was that the tire situation hurt Ferrari. For the first part of the season, it was all willy-nilly, so many different drivers and teams winning, no one able to get a firm handle on the tire situation. And during that period Alonso capitalized, benefitting from other's mistakes in setup or performance. But for the last third of the season, things stabilzed, Pirelli brought conservative tire selections to the races, the teams started to understand the tires better, and that is when the big names and big teams really started to assert themselves.

That was when Pirelli didn't throw things into chaos by bringing wildly different compounds, the Red Bulls started to get sorted out, and Vettel really started to close the gap on Alonso. If Pirelli really wanted to offer Ferrari and Alonso any benefit, that was when they should have mixed things up again, allowed the wild random happenstance we saw at the beginning to re-emerge. But that didn't happen, in fact Pirelli made the deliberate decision not to influence the title chase, and did not change their compounds, nor did they do anything to introduce chaos (which would have been to Alonso's benefit).

For the last few races the tires were no longer the story, Red Bull and Vettel really started to assert themselves again, and the end result was that Vettel quickly racked up a lot of points.

It's an interesting conspiracy theory, but reeks of misplaced nationalism. But NO, everyone had the same tires.

In fact, I'd like to take this further, and in fact, the end result was that the tire situation hurt Ferrari. For the first part of the season, it was all willy-nilly, so many different drivers and teams winning, no one able to get a firm handle on the tire situation. And during that period Alonso capitalized, benefitting from other's mistakes in setup or performance. But for the last third of the season, things stabilzed, Pirelli brought conservative tire selections to the races, the teams started to understand the tires better, and that is when the big names and big teams really started to assert themselves.

That was when Pirelli didn't throw things into chaos by bringing wildly different compounds, the Red Bulls started to get sorted out, and Vettel really started to close the gap on Alonso. If Pirelli really wanted to offer Ferrari and Alonso any benefit, that was when they should have mixed things up again, allowed the wild random happenstance we saw at the beginning to re-emerge. But that didn't happen, in fact Pirelli made the deliberate decision not to influence the title chase, and did not change their compounds, nor did they do anything to introduce chaos (which would have been to Alonso's benefit).

For the last few races the tires were no longer the story, Red Bull and Vettel really started to assert themselves again, and the end result was that Vettel quickly racked up a lot of points.

Thank you for calmly dissecting a conspiracy theory with facts instead of a simple "WTF?" or LMAO.

_________________The underlying thing about all this,no matter how bright you are,no matter how logical one is or how much money one has,you have to be a completely stupid optimist...I believe there are about 3 million competition licences worldwide. -Perry McCarthy

Remember that every Pirelli tyre is handcrafted, that can explain why sometimes a set of tyres works better than another. But saying that Pirelli has tried to help Ferrari (and no one else) over this season... it is hard to believe.

It's an interesting conspiracy theory, but reeks of misplaced nationalism. But NO, everyone had the same tires.

In fact, I'd like to take this further, and in fact, the end result was that the tire situation hurt Ferrari. For the first part of the season, it was all willy-nilly, so many different drivers and teams winning, no one able to get a firm handle on the tire situation. And during that period Alonso capitalized, benefitting from other's mistakes in setup or performance. But for the last third of the season, things stabilzed, Pirelli brought conservative tire selections to the races, the teams started to understand the tires better, and that is when the big names and big teams really started to assert themselves.

That was when Pirelli didn't throw things into chaos by bringing wildly different compounds, the Red Bulls started to get sorted out, and Vettel really started to close the gap on Alonso. If Pirelli really wanted to offer Ferrari and Alonso any benefit, that was when they should have mixed things up again, allowed the wild random happenstance we saw at the beginning to re-emerge. But that didn't happen, in fact Pirelli made the deliberate decision not to influence the title chase, and did not change their compounds, nor did they do anything to introduce chaos (which would have been to Alonso's benefit).

For the last few races the tires were no longer the story, Red Bull and Vettel really started to assert themselves again, and the end result was that Vettel quickly racked up a lot of points.

Thank you for calmly dissecting a conspiracy theory with facts instead of a simple "WTF?" or LMAO.

That's because most people who have been WATCHING the races and not simply egging on their drivers like it was the horse they had their money on will have come to the same conclusion that Blinky has so well summarized. The problem is most people can't be bothered with such nonsensical conspiracy scenarios and will simply resort to a WTF or LMAO, which I must admit I was about to do also

There could be a conflict of interests. Ferrari has a technological partnership with Pirelli for their road cars. I guess at some point F1 divisions from both companies can start exchanging data as well. The connection is there.

There could be a conflict of interests. Ferrari has a technological partnership with Pirelli for their road cars. I guess at some point F1 divisions from both companies can start exchanging data as well. The connection is there.

There are lots of connections in F1. You just dont start calling conspiracy theory every time there is one.ECU on every car is McLaren designed and built unit, does that mean McLaren can somehow manage to sabotage it?Ofcourse not. Just like ECU, tyres are also distributed by FIA. The manufacturer does not come into picture there as it is already posted here. And Pirelli first care about their own image and profit. They collect data from all teams and their own tests. If there was such exchange of information happening, they risk losing their contract if it is ever exposed. That is more harmful for them. Not to mention same risk for Ferrari.None of these top teams will want to get involved in direct corporate level cheating scandal that can have long lasting effects on the sport. Specially not now after F1 having weathered 2 big ones in not too distant past with disastrous consequences.

There could be a conflict of interests. Ferrari has a technological partnership with Pirelli for their road cars. I guess at some point F1 divisions from both companies can start exchanging data as well. The connection is there.

Indeed, the connection is there. I don't think the F1 tyres are hand made are they?I have not heard any collusion stories like there were in the Bridgestone special tyre days but Alonso was 40 points clear in the championship at one stage and Vettel caught up with sheer consistency. In theory if there was any help given to Ferrari with tyres then Red Bull should not have been able to catch up. Except they had a great year and Ferrari had an poor second half to the year, they even had to push Massa to get him and his car into the equation in the last 3 or 4 races. Why was Alonso so confident he could do it? Vettel wasn't and even Hamilton in without question the fastest car wasn't?Alonso in what he described as basically a dog of a car was in the lead of the championship because he is what? The best driver in the world?

There could be a conflict of interests. Ferrari has a technological partnership with Pirelli for their road cars. I guess at some point F1 divisions from both companies can start exchanging data as well. The connection is there.

There are lots of connections in F1. You just dont start calling conspiracy theory every time there is one.ECU on every car is McLaren designed and built unit, does that mean McLaren can somehow manage to sabotage it?Ofcourse not. Just like ECU, tyres are also distributed by FIA. The manufacturer does not come into picture there as it is already posted here. And Pirelli first care about their own image and profit. They collect data from all teams and their own tests. If there was such exchange of information happening, they risk losing their contract if it is ever exposed. That is more harmful for them. Not to mention same risk for Ferrari.None of these top teams will want to get involved in direct corporate level cheating scandal that can have long lasting effects on the sport. Specially not now after F1 having weathered 2 big ones in not too distant past with disastrous consequences.

There is i believe ther equivalent of a lockwire on the ecu, i can't imagine anyone being able to crack the code, apparently it's super encrypted anyway and very easy to check. Apparently image has been a problem for Pirelli this year. Earlier in the year supplying F1 with tyres did not appear to generate any more tyre sales for road cars and it seems that Hembrey was at one point this year totally brassed off with people in the press asking if Pirelli were going to sort out the tyres and there were comments that the tyres were very inconsistant, or worse!http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hembery-hits-back-at-pirelli-quality-doubts/

There could be a conflict of interests. Ferrari has a technological partnership with Pirelli for their road cars. I guess at some point F1 divisions from both companies can start exchanging data as well. The connection is there.

There are lots of connections in F1. You just dont start calling conspiracy theory every time there is one.ECU on every car is McLaren designed and built unit, does that mean McLaren can somehow manage to sabotage it?Ofcourse not. Just like ECU, tyres are also distributed by FIA. The manufacturer does not come into picture there as it is already posted here. And Pirelli first care about their own image and profit. They collect data from all teams and their own tests. If there was such exchange of information happening, they risk losing their contract if it is ever exposed. That is more harmful for them. Not to mention same risk for Ferrari.None of these top teams will want to get involved in direct corporate level cheating scandal that can have long lasting effects on the sport. Specially not now after F1 having weathered 2 big ones in not too distant past with disastrous consequences.

There is i believe ther equivalent of a lockwire on the ecu, i can't imagine anyone being able to crack the code, apparently it's super encrypted anyway and very easy to check. Apparently image has been a problem for Pirelli this year. Earlier in the year supplying F1 with tyres did not appear to generate any more tyre sales for road cars and it seems that Hembrey was at one point this year totally brassed off with people in the press asking if Pirelli were going to sort out the tyres and there were comments that the tyres were very inconsistant, or worse!http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hembery-hits-back-at-pirelli-quality-doubts/

Pirelli quality doubts were mostly cooked up by media, a section of media to be precise. When asked, all teams including likes of McLaren have gone on record on live Tv and said that they find tyres consistent. And good thing about them is that they are sure that one set of x compound is going top be exactly like another set of same compound. This was broadcasted live on sky when these stories of quality issues popped up and sky asked teams top comment on it.

The question is not whether everyone is getting the same stuff, it's whether that stuff is being designed to suit Ferrari..

If that were the case they are doing a pretty fairy cakes job of it.

It's a stupid argument. You could argue all sorts of conspiracy's in every single component of the car. Every car uses the McLaren ECU - does that mean that the McLaren F1 team get a 'better' one? Does it bollocks.

Earlier in the year supplying F1 with tyres did not appear to generate any more tyre sales for road cars

Hardly surprising, they do zero advertising outside of motorsport. For the average family who needs a new tyre, they will just go to a garage like Kwikfit and get them to slap one on there. Nobody pops into the shop and orders a Pirelli. If they only entered F1 to boost their sales they really are in it for the wrong reason.

The question is not whether everyone is getting the same stuff, it's whether that stuff is being designed to suit Ferrari..

If that were the case they are doing a pretty fairy cakes job of it.

It's a stupid argument. You could argue all sorts of conspiracy's in every single component of the car. Every car uses the McLaren ECU - does that mean that the McLaren F1 team get a 'better' one? Does it bollocks.

Unknown to all other teams, AND fia, the ecu sends data from all races to Mclaren. ( or was it CIA? )

Geez, I wonder if they could really get away with that

_________________I have nothing to offer but blood, oil, gears, and sweat.

It's an interesting conspiracy theory, but reeks of misplaced nationalism. But NO, everyone had the same tires.

In fact, I'd like to take this further, and in fact, the end result was that the tire situation hurt Ferrari. For the first part of the season, it was all willy-nilly, so many different drivers and teams winning, no one able to get a firm handle on the tire situation. And during that period Alonso capitalized, benefitting from other's mistakes in setup or performance. But for the last third of the season, things stabilzed, Pirelli brought conservative tire selections to the races, the teams started to understand the tires better, and that is when the big names and big teams really started to assert themselves.

That was when Pirelli didn't throw things into chaos by bringing wildly different compounds, the Red Bulls started to get sorted out, and Vettel really started to close the gap on Alonso. If Pirelli really wanted to offer Ferrari and Alonso any benefit, that was when they should have mixed things up again, allowed the wild random happenstance we saw at the beginning to re-emerge. But that didn't happen, in fact Pirelli made the deliberate decision not to influence the title chase, and did not change their compounds, nor did they do anything to introduce chaos (which would have been to Alonso's benefit).

For the last few races the tires were no longer the story, Red Bull and Vettel really started to assert themselves again, and the end result was that Vettel quickly racked up a lot of points.

Thank you for calmly dissecting a conspiracy theory with facts instead of a simple "WTF?" or LMAO.

That's because most people who have been WATCHING the races and not simply egging on their drivers like it was the horse they had their money on will have come to the same conclusion that Blinky has so well summarized. The problem is most people can't be bothered with such nonsensical conspiracy scenarios and will simply resort to a WTF or LMAO, which I must admit I was about to do also

I was about to write a post similar to Blinky's but found it was already there. It's nice when Blinky and others do this. Like coming to work and finding somebody has come in early and dealt with the pressing matters, you can take a slow 10 minutes with a coffee

_________________The underlying thing about all this,no matter how bright you are,no matter how logical one is or how much money one has,you have to be a completely stupid optimist...I believe there are about 3 million competition licences worldwide. -Perry McCarthy

The question is not whether everyone is getting the same stuff, it's whether that stuff is being designed to suit Ferrari..

If that were the case they are doing a pretty fairy cakes job of it.

It's a stupid argument. You could argue all sorts of conspiracy's in every single component of the car. Every car uses the McLaren ECU - does that mean that the McLaren F1 team get a 'better' one? Does it bollocks.

Unknown to all other teams, AND fia, the ecu sends data from all races to Mclaren. ( or was it CIA? )

Geez, I wonder if they could really get away with that

I thought it was a bit dodgy that when Red Bull leapt ahead of Macca from Singapore thru India, Macca then caught up and arguably were faster than RB in the last 3 races. Now all is clear, they had time to study and adapt their setup using the data from Red Bull's ECU

The question is not whether everyone is getting the same stuff, it's whether that stuff is being designed to suit Ferrari..

If that were the case they are doing a pretty fairy cakes job of it.

It's a stupid argument. You could argue all sorts of conspiracy's in every single component of the car. Every car uses the McLaren ECU - does that mean that the McLaren F1 team get a 'better' one? Does it bollocks.

Unknown to all other teams, AND fia, the ecu sends data from all races to Mclaren. ( or was it CIA? )

Geez, I wonder if they could really get away with that

I thought it was a bit dodgy that when Red Bull leapt ahead of Macca from Singapore thru India, Macca then caught up and arguably were faster than RB in the last 3 races. Now all is clear, they had time to study and adapt their setup using the data from Red Bull's ECU

Just wait til the emails between Webber and Button come out

_________________I have nothing to offer but blood, oil, gears, and sweat.