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I do that here. Angie told me that it doesn't translate over to water work in the summer. I believe it does... This winter all my dogs will be in warmer climes...

Clint ran blinds on the frozen ponds when he lived in Kentucky, and would revisit them in the spring...He had a dog named Stormy which was out of NAFC CNFC Pipers Pacer ...got a second in an Open with him...so I guess it worked out well....and I am fairly sure he learned the trick from Roy McFall, who also taught it to Dr Ferucci

All my Exes live in Texas

Originally Posted by lanse brown

A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

Am worried about stealing thread but I do enjoy hearing some of your experiences and plans for your dogs. Maybe not for this forum or even for the retriever forum. I h talked with Franco, RK and Buzz and Hunt about their dogs and plans via PM's but that is really cumbersome. I would like to know what all of you are doing with your dogs and plans. It also gives me the opportunity to plan training and test trips and look you up.

Clint ran blinds on the frozen ponds when he lived in Kentucky, and would revisit them in the spring...He had a dog named Stormy which was out of NAFC CNFC Pipers Pacer ...got a second in an Open with him...so I guess it worked out well....and I am fairly sure he learned the trick from Roy McFall, who also taught it to Dr Ferucci

Up here in the"FROZEN TUNDRA" we do us some ice fishing.

It is a great time to do handling drills.
The ice is not glare ice, it usually has a crust or some snow, so it's not really slippery.

I want to get back to the topic of this thread, but first ... the HRC Grand is in Iowa next year? Where? I've only seen one HRC test. I used to train with some HRC guys around here and went out to work one of their tests. Would like to go check out the Grand.

Anyway, just an FYI about paying union dues, to put it in perspective for those who think it’s an unreasonable imposition.

Years ago, we (UAW) tied our dues rates to wages earned, so that we no longer have to deal with adjusting dues periodically as costs go up (or down). Our members pay 2 hours of earnings per month. So the more you earn, the higher your dues. The exception to this is if you work less than (if I remember correctly) 20 hours in the month, then dues are waived. This pertains to those who are off work sick or injured or laid off, etc.

So if you’re paid a flat rate of $18.50/hr, your dues that month will be $37. If your flat rate is $21.25. you will pay $42.50. Production workers ... those who work directly machining and producing parts, assembly, testing, etc., as opposed to maintenance, material handling, trucking, etc. ... are paid according to an incentive system (piecework, so to speak) so their hourly earnings will fluctuate, but their dues are still 2 hours of their average earnings for that month.

So what do they get for that? You can spend the rest of your day researching that if you like but here is one BLS link that indicates union wages are roughly $150/week higher than non-union wages for comparable work.

So, assuming $150 - &200/week, the guy working with a union contract is earning around $7,500 - $10,000 MORE per year. If he/she wants to refuse to pay $40 or so per MONTH for that benefit then, YES, I will call him a leech. Or, to coin another term, a part of the “Something-For-Nothing crowd”.

Our members happen to think it’s reasonable too, as we have a miniscule number who choose to “scab”.

Now, for those who believe good wages are bad for the country, that’s another issue altogether, with all sorts of arguments either way. This thread is about Right-to-Work laws and paying your share of the cost of your contract.

JS

“Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980Real Americans buy American.

So as to not suggest that the almighty $$$ is the only thing a union is concerned with, I remind you there are literally hundreds of working conditions spelled out in a labor agreement. And remember, a contract of any kind WORKS BOTH WAYS. It’s an agreement negotiated by 2 parties that defines the rights AND the responsibilities of EACH. Both the company AND the workers. And in the case of labor contracts, it is always the practice that all rights and decisions that are not stipulated in the agreement are the discretion of management.

Without exception, all those “work rules” contained in union contracts, have come about as the result of a past disregard for the working conditions of the workers. If workers are satisfied with the terms of their employment and believe it is equitable, there is no need to write language addressing it.

As an example off the top of my head; we once had a common practice of notifying employees on very short notice, that we would be working on Saturday. Because of some ‘unforeseen circumstance” the supervisor could come to you at 2 PM on Friday afternoon and inform you the line would be running tomorrow and you WILL be here. No concern that you may have planned to take the kids camping for the weekend or that one of them had a Saturday morning football game. This was never an everyweek occurrence but it happened way too often. Furthermore, when you got there on Saturday morning, you would often find there was only enough material available to work a couple hours and were then sent home! Made the employees really happy and willing to go the extra mile for the company!

We raised the issue in negotiations (that’s referred to as a “union demand” ). Long story short, the company insisted they needed the flexibility to respond to “short-notice production needs”. We dropped it.

For the next three years (3-year contract) the practice continued and the next negotiations it was a higher priority issue. Again, the company dug in their heels on the right to schedule production as they saw fit, but at the eleventh hour, we did get a letter of agreement pledging that they would “endeavor” to plan further ahead and minimize these last minute notifications. (I have not forgotten that ratification meeting! Not popular with the rank & file! )

The situation did improve a little but was still an issue. We processed a number of grievances during the contract period ... basically just to document the problem, as the “pledge” letter was weak and not binding. At the NEXT negotiations, we were successful in getting resolution that notification of weekend overtime must be given by the preceding Wednesday and that the overtime would first be offered as voluntary to the most senior qualified employee and go down the list until they filled the need. If they got to the bottom of the seniority list and still needed more people, they could start back up the list and assign it as mandatory.

There were further restrictions on mandatory weekend overtime but, guess what??? Once the language was in the contract, the issue went away! Supervisors discovered they could easily avoid the problem by doing their job and properly planning ahead. Rarely was there any Saturday production after that ... (wonder how much that saved the company in overtime pay because the managers involved, had to start doing their job). And when there WAS an unforeseen need, there was never any problem getting enough qualified workers to volunteer. It has never been a hindrance to the company and employees can plan a family weekend just like anyone else.

And this is one single, simple benefit that the freerider gets right along with the rest of the members. There are hundreds.

JS

“Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980Real Americans buy American.

So, assuming $150 - &200/week, the guy working with a union contract is earning around $7,500 - $10,000 MORE per year. If he/she wants to refuse to pay $40 or so per MONTH for that benefit then, YES, I will call him a leech. Or, to coin another term, a part of the “Something-For-Nothing crowd”.

Our members happen to think it’s reasonable too, as we have a miniscule number who choose to “scab”.

Now, for those who believe good wages are bad for the country, that’s another issue altogether, with all sorts of arguments either way. This thread is about Right-to-Work laws and paying your share of the cost of your contract.

JS

Just insert piece work into the equation and my bet is any hardworking man can beat that difference through his hard work and dedication. As far as the benefits go, give the union man a choice to either buy the unions plans or give his money back to find his own. Why force him to buy the unions health and pension, especially when you can easily see both are commonly riddled with fraud and embezzlement. Compete, don't force!

So as to not suggest that the almighty $$$ is the only thing a union is concerned with, I remind you there are literally hundreds of working conditions spelled out in a labor agreement. And remember, a contract of any kind WORKS BOTH WAYS. It’s an agreement negotiated by 2 parties that defines the rights AND the responsibilities of EACH. Both the company AND the workers. And in the case of labor contracts, it is always the practice that all rights and decisions that are not stipulated in the agreement are the discretion of management.

Without exception, all those “work rules” contained in union contracts, have come about as the result of a past disregard for the working conditions of the workers. If workers are satisfied with the terms of their employment and believe it is equitable, there is no need to write language addressing it.

As an example off the top of my head; we once had a common practice of notifying employees on very short notice, that we would be working on Saturday. Because of some ‘unforeseen circumstance” the supervisor could come to you at 2 PM on Friday afternoon and inform you the line would be running tomorrow and you WILL be here. No concern that you may have planned to take the kids camping for the weekend or that one of them had a Saturday morning football game. This was never an everyweek occurrence but it happened way too often. Furthermore, when you got there on Saturday morning, you would often find there was only enough material available to work a couple hours and were then sent home! Made the employees really happy and willing to go the extra mile for the company!

Welcome back Jack

We raised the issue in negotiations (that’s referred to as a “union demand” ). Long story short, the company insisted they needed the flexibility to respond to “short-notice production needs”. We dropped it.

For the next three years (3-year contract) the practice continued and the next negotiations it was a higher priority issue. Again, the company dug in their heels on the right to schedule production as they saw fit, but at the eleventh hour, we did get a letter of agreement pledging that they would “endeavor” to plan further ahead and minimize these last minute notifications. (I have not forgotten that ratification meeting! Not popular with the rank & file! )

The situation did improve a little but was still an issue. We processed a number of grievances during the contract period ... basically just to document the problem, as the “pledge” letter was weak and not binding. At the NEXT negotiations, we were successful in getting resolution that notification of weekend overtime must be given by the preceding Wednesday and that the overtime would first be offered as voluntary to the most senior qualified employee and go down the list until they filled the need. If they got to the bottom of the seniority list and still needed more people, they could start back up the list and assign it as mandatory.

There were further restrictions on mandatory weekend overtime but, guess what??? Once the language was in the contract, the issue went away! Supervisors discovered they could easily avoid the problem by doing their job and properly planning ahead. Rarely was there any Saturday production after that ... (wonder how much that saved the company in overtime pay because the managers involved, had to start doing their job). And when there WAS an unforeseen need, there was never any problem getting enough qualified workers to volunteer. It has never been a hindrance to the company and employees can plan a family weekend just like anyone else.

And this is one single, simple benefit that the freerider gets right along with the rest of the members. There are hundreds.

Just insert piece work into the equation and my bet is any hardworking man can beat that difference through his hard work and dedication. As far as the benefits go, give the union man a choice to either buy the unions plans or give his money back to find his own. Why force him to buy the unions health and pension, especially when you can easily see both are commonly riddled with fraud and embezzlement. Compete, don't force!

I have never been employed at a non union shop that allowed me to pick my own plan, why should a union shop be any different?