Why are we obsessed with London?

OK, here's the deal: you live in a beautiful city, which is sunny, say, 250 days a year. You can afford to live in a decent flat, and you can go out to eat some pretty good food. You've just finished a uni degree, and your prospects of getting a job are looking good.

But you've heard about a place on the other side of the world.

It's going to cost you most of your savings to get there. And, from what your friends have told you, it's going to cost you the rest of your savings to find a flat and settle. That flat will probably be pretty crappy - from what you've seen on Gumtree, you'll probably be sharing it with about 20 South Africans. Your career's going to have to be put on hold - you'll pick up work in a bar. However, that at least means you'll get a decent feed every now and then. Oh, and it rains pretty much every day of the year.

What do you do?

If you're Australian, pack your bags. You're moving to London.

Australians, particularly young Australians, are obsessed with the idea of moving to London, or even just visiting the place - and probably have been since the "first" Australians rocked up here in leg irons and started dreaming of what they'd left behind.

And it's passed on from generation to generation. Most of us that've been to the Old Dart have probably got parents or close relatives who did the same thing about 20 years ago. It's a rite of passage, something that's almost expected these days: finish high school, get your degree, apply for your visa, bugger off for a year.

A recent survey by lastminute.com.au found that the UK finishes a close second behind New Zealand for the country most often visited by Australians, despite the fact that it couldn't possibly be further away.

So what is it about this place that, most of the time, we love to hate? (I've got a British passport, but that doesn't mean I wasn't cheering long and loud when England got beaten in the Rugby World Cup final a few days ago. And it ain't easy backing South Africa.)

Most people wheel out the old, "it's a safe destination, and everyone speaks English" line of reasoning. Which is true - but if that's the case, why don't more Aussies head to the US or Canada for their year-long sabbatical?

Also, London's main drawing point is supposed to be the fact that it's so close to mainland Europe, providing easy access to the whole continent. But how many Australians do you talk to who get back from their year abroad having barely made it outside of Putney?

We certainly don't go there for the weather (sorry for the stereotype, but come on, it really is terrible compared to here). And we certainly don't go for the food (sorry again, but you can get far better here for far less).

For starters, I think most backpackers like the fact that London is full of their countrymen. There's a certain safety net in knowing that a city is full of people taking the same risks you're taking, and being up for the same adventures you're up for.

It means you've always got someone to go down to the Walkabout with and watch the AFL grand final, or just to talk to about the things you miss from home. There's an instant bond with Australians you meet in London - possibly because most of them are your roommates.

There's also the unique energy of London that you can't replicate anywhere else. I've never stayed there for more than a month, but that's been enough time to get caught up in the daily rush, when there's always something going on or somewhere good to be. There's always a new neighbourhood to check out, a new band coming into town, or a new pub your mates have just discovered.

Plenty of my friends have hated the place when they first arrived, but within a couple of months you can guarantee they'll be smitten, raving about the huge music festival they went to, or the sunny day they spent lazing about at Primrose Hill.

And its popularity can't just be put down to the fact that it's an "easy" destination for first-time travellers. Plenty of seasoned backpackers end up making their base in the English capital, the lure of being able to save their pounds and then fly anywhere in Europe or North Africa for a long weekend proving too much to resist.

The place isn't perfect - hell, it's full of Poms - but we love it.

Are you one of the many who's visited or lived in London? What did you think? Would you go back?

Hope you're enjoying the Backpacker blog. There'll be a new one up on smh.com.au every Wednesday, for a bit of light relief to remind you of why you went to work in the first place: to save up enough money to get the hell out of here! If there are any good travel topics you think I've missed, drop me a line at bgroundwater@fairfax.com.au.

Posted
by Ben GroundwaterOctober 24, 2007 9:29 AM

LATEST COMMENTS

I loved london because while I was there I never once felt bigger than the city - if that makes sense. I was constantly surprised by what it served up.

One of the mates I lived with in london arrived back into sydney this morning after 1 and half years away. i collected him from the airport, we got back to my place and he sat down and gave me a look that said 'dude, what the hell am i doing back here?' And i know exactly what he means!

Posted by: Hilton Hippy on October 24, 2007 10:28 AM

I think you're a little behind on the visa regulations, Ben. Even those on the "working holiday" visa are free to work in any profession now. A friend in PR did two years there, travelled around Europe for months, and came back with AU$20,000 saved (not too hard when you divide that by a little over two-and-a-half for pounds).

I'm going myself early next year, although my employment skills don't readily transfer between countries and I'll probably end up doing the pub thing. Why? Largely it's because I can. I'm as close to thoroughbred Australian as a non-aboriginal gets (both parents, all four grandparents and several of the great-grandparents were born here). Taking up the working holiday visa will probably be the only chance I get to live and work somewhere overseas for an extended period. The ability to see the rest of Europe is also a significant drawcard (as my friend said, these days a flight to Spain costs the same as a good dinner). Oh year, and I want to see London! We'll see how long it takes me to get sick of it - I'm open to the idea of spending a little time there then basing myself elsewhere in the UK for the rest of my stay. Edinburgh or Cardiff are possibilities.

Posted by: Discipline's Disciple on October 24, 2007 10:37 AM

London ? I'd go there for the football only.

Food is rubbish. People are runde. Weather is shocking. And the worst part, it's full of poms.

Posted by: Tim on October 24, 2007 10:52 AM

... not to mention all the yobbo Australians!

Posted by: Clancy on October 24, 2007 11:07 AM

I have only passed through London on the way to Glastonbury a couple of times, so I am not familiar with the huge draw. However, I think the visa is a huge part of the draw of London. I am working in the USA, and it was a massive pain to get the visa, as well as very expensive.

Once you get past the visa, as a working holiday, the USA beats the UK in my opinion. You are further from Europe, but much closer to Central and South America, which are unbeatable as backpacker spots. Cost of living in the USA is probably only a third of London, and salaries are comparable.

Posted by: fun in the sun on October 24, 2007 11:09 AM

It's near Paris

Posted by: Tom on October 24, 2007 11:10 AM

Why London over the US? Well at least the Poms have a sense of humour, and yes it is a few hours away from Europe.

I think you'll find a lot of Aussies would have actually got out of Putney- even if it was on a Contiki (insert roll of the eyes here) tour.

Its always the first destination when I've gone to Europe, but I wouldnt live there. Great place to visit, but why would you live anywhere else (I'm in Sydney).

Posted by: El-Capitano on October 24, 2007 11:14 AM

Tim ..

Have you ever been to London??

If so.. you prob only ate McDonalds or a dirty kebab after a night at The Walkabout at She Bu.

The range of food in London is possibly the best in the world ... I wont even start - why are all the top young Kiwi & Aussie chefs cutting their teeth in London???
And as for the London Summer .... sitting in beer gardens at 10pm at night and its still light outside. Music fests at Hyde Park .. what a great place in the world to spend a summer. And mate everywhere I turn here in Australia I bump into a pom.
As the old saying goes...If a man is bored of London he is bored of life.

Posted by: BONGO on October 24, 2007 11:15 AM

I agree with Discipline's Disciple. London is an easy place to start, but you can move on from there.

Im heading over to London in a little over 4 weeks. The reason I want to go is that it is so different from australia. I know for a fact I will miss the sand, surf and sun, and will bitch constantly about the rain/cold, but I will also have an amazing time.

I see London a place to get some sterling behind me and then hit up the coveted European summer!

Posted by: Leah on October 24, 2007 11:16 AM

London is meant to be the place to be..fashion,nightlife

I have friends living there that get paid better then in Oz(they have Uni degrees)

also I think being away from family pressure..do this..do that..

you kinda feel more free when your living away from home..more liberated..you feel more confortable being yourself cos no one knows you when you get there..its like starting a fresh...

if i could...i would do it again..

Posted by: beentheredoneit on October 24, 2007 11:18 AM

I went to London last year for a short holiday as well as seeing most of western europe. I hated the weather there, and i do recall saying how can so many Aussie's want to live here? Its cold, dark and miserable.

One year on with many mates already making the move over, i have planned to go and live there myself. When you have a profession where you can earn enough to live, travel and save, you would be mad not to take the opportunity

Not to mention the massive music festivals you get a chance to be apart of.

Posted by: GYCO on October 24, 2007 11:18 AM

Well most australians will travel because they want to. And England is seen as a challenge, so shy not? and its as far as you can get from home as well.

That said, the UK is dirty, expensive and in some spots like the third world - lets be blunt.

However, if you can work in ( say ) IT and use the UK as a base to hop to Spain, Switzerland etc, its brilliant. Use and abuse the location - if you stay in the UK you will go insane...but use it for its location and all good. I mean 8 hours to The US? 2 hours to Barcelona? 2 hours to Paris? 4 hous from africa?

Oh...and did I mention the exchange rate?

Posted by: wiseboy on October 24, 2007 11:24 AM

Definitely the visa is a massive drawcard. If the US had the same Working holiday deal... I'm sure there'd be a stack of Aussies living in New York.
Also London is an easy destination. Bogan Aussies can head over there and not have to worry about new culture or language

Posted by: shane on October 24, 2007 11:27 AM

Posted by: Discipline's Disciple on October 24, 2007 10:37 AM

....and everyone....!

I never LIVED in london - not a huge fan of the emotional coldness of big capital cities. but I lived in cardiff and visited london about once per month. visiting was enough for me - the place was way too expensive to live comfortably (in cardiff i paid 1/3 of the rent of a mate who lived in london even though we had pretty much the same profession, job role, and wage). I dont know if people were rude as such, but in any big cities there are trust issues which may come across as rudeness. The UK weather did blow, but i really did enjoy rugging up and heading out to nice warm pubs to get lathered on all the awesome ales and continental brews - something that we are slowly waking up to in oz after being obsessed with average lagers like new and VB for so long.

I did feel a little bit of cultural affinity with the place to be honest and it is good to get in touch with your roots i think. And it was amazing to be in what was the centre of the known world for much of the last half of the last millenium.

And i like mr T i pity the fools who go all the way over there and dont bother seeing any of europe. I only ever graced the walkabout 2 times in two years - australia v croatia and some other match which escapes me now, and only then because they had a massive cinema sized screen for the games. Having said that the cardiff walkabout was particularly devoid of ozzies. I have to admit i was a bit of an aussie snob - not in the sense that i would be unfriendly if i came across any but i did not go out of my way to congregate with them - i know a few friends who went over there and just hung around aussies in their little clapham ghettos - talk about a double standard for expectations of cultural integration! But I think my job was made easier by the fact that there were not too many ozzies in cardiff - i did find myself drawn to the only other ozzie in town.

Possibly the rudeness could be because there are so many frggng ozzies there - picture local dissatisfaction with pommies at bondi or coogee and you may go some way to understanding animosity you encounter.

In spite of the weather i REALLY miss the place and they remain two of the greatest most fulfilling years of my life - i met amazing people, travelled to amazing places, and because of a lack of other personal ties i concentrated on work as well and got an amazing amount achieved.

Posted by: i feel it on October 24, 2007 11:28 AM

I lived in London for 3 years, I can't say I loved the place but it did make me realise that despite Australia being the best place in the world to live, we do need to become more global in our thinking.

I also became hooked on Curries as a result of my UK posting.

Posted by: John on October 24, 2007 11:29 AM

I lived and worked in London for 4 years and the main draw card was hitting Europe for holidays. We visited France, Spain, Belgium, Holland and Austria. We toured a fair amount through Scotland, Wales and the Ireland Republic and we well as ducking over to Dubai for a week.

We were living in Berkshire rather than London, but either way England life really does get old very quickly. The winters can be draining, the train system is a joke and the locals can be just plain dull (fancy a few pints and a curry after work - again?). So we just grit our teeth and used all our annual leave to travel, travel and travel.

We are now living in the USA and we are loving it. For Australians wanting to work in the USA it couldn't be easier. There are 10500 E-3 visas reserved for Australians only. They are cheap to get (about $100), renewable every 2 years and all you need is a bachelor degree and a company willing to sign an LCA form (no payment from the company needed and you don't need to go through a lawyer).

We're looking forward to being back home soon, but traveling the world on an Australian passport visiting great cities, national parks and making new friends has been a blast. If you can do it, do it. And consider the USA before the UK ...

Posted by: Steve on October 24, 2007 11:32 AM

It is fantastic! Eating out is only rubbish if you don't know where to go and their supermarkets offer a lot more than ours.

The people who go on and on about how bad London is have never been there or have only stopped there for a few days so they really don't know enough to comment.

Unlike Sydney, London never sleeps. Every night is like a saturday night and there is always something to do.

We may have better weather and nice beaches but we are miles away from the rest of the world and when you live there you feel just how far Oz is- Nobody cares about it.

Aussies move to london to earn more money, travel and to experience big city life. Sydney is great but is like a small town in comparison. When I came back to Sydney it took me 1 year to get back into the swing life here. If you haven't lived there before then you won't understand.

Don't know why so many aussies get defensive if you say you love another city/country too. What is the big deal??

Posted by: Melanie on October 24, 2007 11:34 AM

*bites tongue, turns red in face*

I got beaten up so thoroughly last time a had a say on the London obsession that I'll try to summarise what's probably appealing about the place. Actually, having read the article, most of it has been said already:

* English-speaking: makes it easy;
* Close to the continent: makes exploring Europe possible on the cheap;
* Everybody else is doing it: plenty of expats to hang out with, plus friends already over there who can smooth the transition (eg allowing couch surfing);
* Big city: plenty to see & do.

Things that might not have been covered:

* Reciprocal working visa arrangements make it probably easier than most other destinations for a working holiday;
* As a major cultural centre, London gets heaps of touring exhibitions, bands & so on;
* History! No cityscape in Australia is much more than 200 years old, and most of the grand buildings are barely more than 100 years old. London, like many European cities, reeks history, and it's hard not to become intoxicated by that. (I believe that being surrounded by history makes people feel that they're surrounded by culture, which in turn leads them to feel like they are soaking culture into their marrow, but that would be reverting to previous negative views);
* The general intoxication you get from immersion in a foreign culture is also at play, except in this case the culture is only quasi-foreign, quite familiar since childhood, and therefore easier to adapt to;
* Plus, there's the thrill of seeing in person the stuff you've only read about (talking history again here). Granted, that could happen almost anywhere, but it might be like a "first love" sort of situation. Because so many people go there for their very very first little baby-steps overseas, the intoxication is forever linked with that one particular place.

Speaking of which, London was actually my first, at the tender age of six. I still get a buzz to this day from the smell of coal smoke in the streets, which you sometimes (too rarely!) encounter here, although I think that association probably comes more from the north of England, and even more from Ireland, on that same trip...

Posted by: ali on October 24, 2007 11:40 AM

I spent the Christmas season in London on 2005-06. Using it as a base for about a month to travel a bit around the UK. I really enjoyed it and the tourist stuff was great fun and mostly free.

I'd been on the road for about 6 months at this point and just broken up with someone back home after 3 years. So I make total allowance for the fact that I wasn't in the best frame of mind. But I honestly don't get the appeal of the place. I nearly got deported before I even made it to the UK for not putting my "lodging" details in the customs form in Belgium - because I didn't know my friends address. Not the best welcome to the UK - Bloody customs people.

My friends who were earning well were definately living it up. On the other hand I found some of my friends who were new graduates were really struggling for $$$ and hadn't had the chance top travel much. Which they thought was the point before they left home.

A colleague of mine from a previous job raved about the place - prob because she worked as a hostess at Chelsea football club. Nasty piece of work she was

In all I don't think the place is for everyone. You either love it or hate it. Personally I love Sydney's lifestlye and I don't think I could have ever settled so far away from family

Also I think the USA is starting to rival London in terms of earning potential - I much prefer the idea of working in New York - at least the summers are really warm for an extended period of time.

Posted by: L on October 24, 2007 11:41 AM

It's not that good. Financially you mind land good job save a few bucks before the visa runs out. I guess it also looks ok on the CV.
I've been back to the UK twice and avoided England both times....I'll take the Scots over the Poms anyday.

Posted by: furball on October 24, 2007 11:42 AM

I think lots of people go over as its different to what we have at home. I lived over there for 8 months and it took a while to get used to.

But there is so much to do over there, with a pub on every corner, the long pub lunches any day of the week, awesome concerts and festivals throughout the year and europe on your doorstep, why wouldn't you go over?

It's an experience that I would highly recommend.

Posted by: Craig on October 24, 2007 11:43 AM

Isn't London a bit of a fad these days - compared to Sydney it comes a long way second. May be everyone wants to be cultured. Everybody seems to hate Americans but they seem to be one of the most inviting people on the planet.

Posted by: Steve on October 24, 2007 11:51 AM

I think there are 2 main reasons.

1. London is the crossroads of the world. For the opposite reasons the English come to Australia, that is for the laid-back relaxed life we apparently have, Australian's go to London to be in the centre of the world. Endless opportunities for culture and travel.

2. The other reason is the POUNDS. London pays excellent money for most professions, so spending a couple of years there earns you a tidy deposit for the Great Australian Housing Market. It's so out of reach for most Generation Y'ers these days saving pounds is the fastest way to get on board. And don't Gen Y'ers like things to happen quickly..

I've been back and forth to work 3 times, but now I'm in Canada making the most of the 1 year work permit before i'm too old! And what a refreshing change this is..

Posted by: charlie on October 24, 2007 11:51 AM

I think its to do with safety in numbers. Way too many young Aussie's in London...

I understand the buzz that London has and kinda wish we had that in the centre of Sydney sometimes but there are many other good city options further north in the UK. A lot cheaper and much friendlier people. But I bet 90% of us haven't even been further than zone 6 on the Tube.

Posted by: Richard on October 24, 2007 11:52 AM

Posted by: BONGO on October 24, 2007 11:15 AM

Perhaps a qualification needs to be made - "affordable" good food cant compare to oz. A typical good quality thai meal will set you back about $13 in oz. In london, an average thai meal will cost about 15Squid, or roughly triple that of the cost in oz. I reckon i earned pretty much the same in oz as i did in the UK afer conversion, so that means that while your wage is essentially the same, the food is vastly more expensive.
so yeah - good food is there but at a price. Affordable good food was very very very difficult to come by in the uk (affordable being under 15squids worth).

but i agree with everything else you said - the uk transistion from winter to spring to summer was beautiful in my opinion. Lazy summer days in the park not getting heatstroke or cancer.

Posted by: i feel it on October 24, 2007 12:08 PM

That being said i found I loved Edinburgh and would hve happily moved there instead of London :)

Posted by: L on October 24, 2007 12:10 PM

I lived in London for 2 years and have been back in Sydney for a year. I wasn't too keen on living in London but wanted to try living overseas and be close to mainland Europe. I ended up loving London and still do. Sydney does feel like a small country town compared to London and some comparable sized major cities in Europe. Football, fashion, music, pokie-less pubs, and real attitude is what London has to offer.

Posted by: Nick on October 24, 2007 12:17 PM

Posted by: Melanie on October 24, 2007 11:34 AM

everything you said is spot on! and 9's so it must be true.

Posted by: i feel it on October 24, 2007 12:19 PM

London is fine, but why is it that 'London' and 'England' seem to be terms that are interchangeable to Australians. ENGLAND is a beautiful country, LONDON is a dirty, big city that for so many Aussies is the be-all and end-all of their trips overseas. Having lived throughout England for the best part of two years undoubtedly the times spent in London were the most stressful, expensive and probably drunken of the lot.

However if you have thought of moving over to London, but want to save on stress and money, try a medium sized northern city like York, Newcastle or Manchester. Same international experience, less money to live (and with cheap flights from all those centres you are even closer to northern Europe!)

Posted by: Chris H-J on October 24, 2007 12:20 PM

It's an alpha global city. Melbourne and Sydney aren't. Sydney's a beta world city and Melbourne is ranked gamma.

People want to experience life in such a city and if you're working professionally and can cut it there, you can cut it anywhere.

Sure, London is miserable from the weather perspective, but is far more cultured than Sydney (that is if you can get out of your local boozer). Pros and cons abound, but it comes down to life experiences and doing something different.

If you're thinking about doing it and don't do it, you might 'what if' the scenario for the rest of your life. And if you do do it, and don't want to make it a permanent move, you can always come back.

Simple really.

Posted by: Bennr on October 24, 2007 12:24 PM

I love the place. Spent last spring and some of summer there this year.

I just can't wait to get back and this time maybe for a much longer stint.

A mate of mine and I went a few years back, he was straight out of uni and I had 3 years experience in Finance. It is funny how our experiences differed.... we both loved it, he is still there, but in the two years I was there, I was able to get a high paying job, travel the continent on a decent budget and enjoy the stress free environment of not having to worry too much about money. He on the other hand had no work experience back home and found his Finance Degree void, and working behind a bar and boring clerical assistant work. His biggest regret was not to have more work experience before leaving, but what is done is done and he is still loving life.

My advise would be to get the experience here before leaving, but in any case, it is a fantastic experience and one I am not done with. I will be back for another stretch while being under 30 and able to get the Skilled Migrant visa.

Posted by: Stevo on October 24, 2007 12:32 PM

The rain is a misconception. I lived in the UK for over a year and there was little rain and many 30 degree heat days.

I went over as my family are from there but I wasn't impressed with London.

Posted by: Lisa on October 24, 2007 12:43 PM

What I love about London is it is a melting pot of people from different walks of life and different cultures. I also loved the "anything goes" feel of the place. You meet more people, people are far more accepting and certainly not as "clicky" as Sydney which is where I moved after London. If anything Sydney is trying far too hard to have a "big city mentality", as a opposed to London, which just IS a big city.

Also access to the arts was something I loved- and it isn't restricted by price. There was always something interesting going on in London every night of the week whether it be the nightlife, plays, concerts and gigs, fashion events, sport etc.

Posted by: b-man on October 24, 2007 12:48 PM

The weather is crap but life is good and so much better than what we can offer here in some walks of life.

Countless theatre options, major music every week (not some crappy Monday night gig once every 2 months because that's the day the band passes through your town), great pubs on every corner and as has quite rightly pointed out superb travel options.

I only wish we had what seems like 1000 different airlines competing with each other to fly you here there and everywhere.

I spent 5 of the best years of my life there, and while it did take a while to adjust once back (and I wouldn't live there now), I would recommend to anyone who is young and commitment free to embrace it and go for it.

It may be a cliche but that means the support network (getting visas, jobs, bank accounts etc) is established and you can maximise enjoyment and minimise bureacracy!

..and let's face it we are so much more attunded to the UK way of thinking compared to the US!!

Posted by: Mike on October 24, 2007 12:48 PM

Tim, you're a w**nker - as they say in England. I can't make out if you've actually been to London or you've just come out with some boring stereotypes. If you have been there then I'd have to ask why?

Bitching about the weather and the food just makes you sound like a knob - it's not as though you didn't know beforehand is it.

Oh, and it might explain why some people are rude if you continually let them know how much better it is in perfect Sydney. Go on, you know you did, didn't you.

And a great comment about London being full of Poms - seriously, why on earth did you go in the first place when you obviously have a chip on your shoulder like so many other sad Aussies.

So, leave London to Aussies like me who love it for what it is - and then we won't have to put up with bores like you Tim.

Oh, and Ben, I'm amazed that you've got a Pommie passport. I'd suggest that you should hand it back as you certainly don't deserve it based on the rugby comment and the way you've continually knocked the country in previous postings.

Oh, I forgot to mention the Poms' great senses of humour... - Ben

Posted by: Ross on October 24, 2007 12:56 PM

I visited London for the first time last month... and together with the rest of Western Europe.

...

My verdict: The worst place you can find in the whole continent. Why you say? Much of the same as noted in the backpacker's blog:
- Food sucks (especially as I just left Paris - even a street kebab tasted like gourmet there)

- Pound's too expensive - unless you earn pounds too

- Keeps on pouring

- No jaw-dropping landmark to visit - the Westminster is just that - an old Parliament House

- Slow! Heathrow was probably the worst airport we've been to. Even the mini Pisa airport is far more efficient.

- Too many bogens too count - flying out from London, we were sitting next to a bunch of loud kids who never been on a plane - 'oh, what's this belt thing for?' - and we were flying BA!

Been there once, ain't coming back. There'd be lots of other places in the world worth my $$$.

Posted by: Chris on October 24, 2007 12:56 PM

another reason more people dont go to US and Canada is they are much tigher on their entry requirements and visa regulations... go to the UK, base your self there and see lots and lots of europ on your doorstep, with a common bond of our mainly anglo/irish lineage. Go to the states, get talked at (alot) about how good america is and how great they are at everything and you get to visit... well more america. I must say i have been thwere and loved every bit of it, but for proximity and assimilation into daily life for an extended period, UK all the way!

Posted by: richard johnston on October 24, 2007 1:03 PM

Interesting you should ask why people don't go to the US or Canada instead of the UK (if language is what you are worried about). Clearly getting into the US is much harder, but not so for Canada... and it seems everyone I talk to has cottoned on to that.

I am heading over there (Canada) for a working holiday next year, and everyone I seem to talk to has either just been or also has plans to go. Maybe it's just Brisbane people, but London certainly seems to be falling down in popularity a bit. If anyone is going, it's purely to pass through for a week or two before heading over to Europe or basing elsewhere in the UK.

I’ve never been so can’t comment on the place, however the idea of going to a city and surrounding yourself with other Aussies begs the question: what’s the point??

– and before anyone states the obvious, I realise it’s a big city and you can avoid the other ‘Colonials’ if you want to.

Posted by: Loz on October 24, 2007 1:03 PM

London is a great place to live. However i must admit, people either love it or they hate it.

I just did a two year stint and it was the best decision of my life. I met so many new friends and enjoy some great experiences along my travels.

The best time to go is when you are young. Why wait until you retire when you are older and not as able as a young tearaway to see the sights and sounds of a foreign country.

Would do it all over again if I could.

Posted by: Ces on October 24, 2007 1:05 PM

Loved London and also sometimes hated it. Was miserable the first month. Then I loved it, got homesick so we came home, now I wonder why we came back :)

I would go back in a heartbeat if I was 5 years younger. So much to do and see, proximity to Europe (which we took full advantage of) and we have good friends there.

The only thing that drives you crazy are the people, crowded public transport and the cost. Don't believe thehype that you will be paid megabucks (unless you work in financial markets) because cost of living will eat it all up!

Posted by: LisaC on October 24, 2007 1:11 PM

Well said BONGO, that's pretty much how I feel about London.
I do miss the place...

Posted by: Mel on October 24, 2007 1:12 PM

I just came back a month ago from living there for 18months. I Completely agree with most of this article. The walkabout however, I went to the one at The Bush once and it was horrible. A bunch of bogan Aussies all in the one place not promoting a good name for Australian people.

For me the best thing about London is that there is really always something to do. I was lucky enough to be able to see a lot of bands, festivals, musicals and plays in my short space of time. I saw so many countries thanks to the cheap flights and i found that Companies love to employee Australians as we tend to be good workers.

I think when you come from a country that is sunshine all the time you really take it for granted. The days that it was hot and sunny there, everyone really gets out on those Commons and has a good time. However, there is something magical about waking up in the winter to find snow everywhere on those few times. Also being wrapped up in trendy coats, scarfs, gloves and hats.

I loved my time in London and if i had the chance again, I'd do it. In regards to saving your money when you're there to come back and have more for your buck, I recommend you spend and do as much as possible because you may only do it once.

On another note, I know a lot of people now get the Irish Working Holiday visa so that they can take addvantage of another year of working, traveling and living it up in Europe.

Posted by: Vanessa on October 24, 2007 1:14 PM

London is so popular primarily because it's a "safe" destination: it's been done before, people are generally familiar with it, it's English speaking, our skills are more transferable there.

But, to be frank, I'm tired of London (and, therefore, tired of life?). It's a highly conservative destination for a gap year, it's expensive, and, I think, in all honestly, the Londoners are getting sick of us Aussies.

I think America should be the next "hot" destination for longer stints of travel or work. Firstly, it's getting a lot easier to work there and to sort out visa arrangement. Secondly, they BADLY need a bit of cultural exchange to broaden their horizons. Finally, I found New York infinitely more intoxicating as a destination than London - definitely the centre of things.

Posted by: Drew on October 24, 2007 1:18 PM

just got back after 2.5 yrs. funny thing is i do miss a decent curry, tennessee/maryland/dixie or anything with an american name fried chicken. oh and i miss a decent game of football.

Posted by: Jonathan on October 24, 2007 1:22 PM

Working Visa.

That is the only reason (and the reasons behind the visa arrangement - ie they colonised Australia! Derr).

If the US had the same reciprical working visa arrangement as the UK does with AUS then the title of this blog would be "Why are we so obsessed with New-York". End of Story. Full-stop. Thank you for coming.

Posted by: rocketscientist on October 24, 2007 1:25 PM

I lived in London for 6 years. You just feel part of the world when you're in London. Australia has nice weather, but not much to do and it takes too long to visit another city let alone another country.

I also got paid twice as much in London as Sydney.

Drugs in London are really cheap and easy to get too.

For a young preson it is much more fun to go out than Sydney as there are so many places to go and Sydney only has two types of pub. Bogans and poker machines, or wankers at places like the Establishment.

Posted by: HighHorse on October 24, 2007 1:28 PM

I moved to London last year. The first few months were crap - didn't know many people, weather, money, getting stuffed around by recruiters. But after a while, If you dont take the place seriously, you can have a fantastic time.

The thing I learned about living in London is that if you don't laugh, you'll cry!

Posted by: John01 on October 24, 2007 1:37 PM

I spent 18 months in London, best time of my life. Not every Aussie works in a bar, I worked in Finance and pay is great; the food is good if you know where to go; the weather is poor (most of the time); but there is nothing like seeing the parks and commons full of happy people when the sun shines! While its a great base to see other parts of Europe, London itself has so much to see and do.

Posted by: Chris on October 24, 2007 1:41 PM

I was lucky enough to live in London for 4 years,
(originally I was going for at least 1 year).

London has many things wrong with it, too many people, too expensive, dirty, weather etc etc. I wanted to explore Europe, and London is the best place to work to get an income (the strength of the pound) that allows the chance to go travelling.

The people I met from various walks of life was amazing, and I still keep in touch and talk to many friends still over there.

There is always something to do in London, you can never be bored - ''When a man is tired of London he is tired of life'' K A Grant.

Posted by: mick on October 24, 2007 1:46 PM

Went to London for a stop-over from Amsterdam. Tried to get to Westminster but got drenched along the way. Never seen so much rain/water in 5 min !

Tube was interesting. Now I know why they're called "the tube".

Not sure if it's just my train but I've never seen a collection of tall girls in one spot at any one time. I'm a short guy, so I felt really tiny.

Would I go back ? If the opportunity arise, yes. But I wouldn't go out of my way just to go there. I mean, there's heaps of Poms here anyway. I've given up on seeing Liverpool play as one of the guys who came back said it's almost impossible unless you know a club member/supporter.

In my mid-30s already so the working visa thing doesn't apply anymore. I have to migrate there to work.

Anyhow, my advise is do it while you can. Rack up as much money/experience as you can. And try as much beer as you can. =)

Posted by: Ronaldo on October 24, 2007 1:48 PM

Having lived in London for two years the city has many good and bad points.
In summary the place reeks of history, culture, excitement and things to do and see as befits many Europeans cities.

I spent many days just walking around London taking it all in and around every corner were places that you had only read about, sometimes it was surreal to be there. Shopping was great and the variety of goods and services is brilliant. The supermarkets have a huge variety of goods to choose from and there are so many restaurants and pubs to visit and enjoy. Not to mention the West End theatres.

Its proximity to Europe is also a huge drawcard.

On the other side of the coin I couldn't wait to get out of London on weekends to visit the beautiful England countryside and villages. Leaving London itself was a nightmare. Why anybody drives in London I don't know as the traffic is unbelievably bad. Try 1.5 hours to get from West Kensington to Wimbledon on a Friday night.

The tube is fine when it works and is also very overcrowded during the week.

Many Australian have a bad name in London as they stick out like the proverbial sore thumb.

You can spot an Aussie (the backpacker variety) on the tube a mile off. Hint: Don't go anywhere near those Walkabout Pubs, Visit the local pub and mix with the locals you'll have a much better time.

Essentially London has a huge population and suffers from all the associated problems. Property prices and rents are exorbitant, people are not generally friendly like they are here in Australia, try having a chat with someone at a bus stop, it just doesn't happen!

The UK is also one of the most 'politically correct' countries in the world, so be warned!

The place is filthy and the weather usually is pretty dull, often raining, cold and dark.

London is a great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there, all our friends have moved out to the country.

Posted by: Tom on October 24, 2007 1:48 PM

Ben, that's an 'Aussie sense of humour' thanks very much. Geez you can't help knocking the Poms even when an Aussie wrote the post (read my original again). And my rugby comment was tongue in cheek - much like yours ;-)

Sorry about that Ross. Don't tell me you were cheering for the Poms... - Ben

Posted by: Ross on October 24, 2007 1:54 PM

Some good points there Chris, seems you really sussed the place out - you can't move in London with all the pesky kids around wondering what to do with belt thingys.

Posted by: Nodsey on October 24, 2007 2:00 PM

London is a brilliant creative and exciting place to be for any Australian. I only went for several months due to family issues but i am already planning to get back. Sydney is indeed a very narrow-minded and cliquey place. Everything here needs to fit into a category or a style and this makes for boring nightlife, boring culture and can lead to boring people. In London anything is possible and anything is do-able. You can have the freedom to be who you want............which means happy times!!!

Posted by: Mohwakman on October 24, 2007 2:05 PM

London is a brilliant creative and exciting place to be for any Australian. I only went for several months due to family issues but i am already planning to get back. Sydney is indeed a very narrow-minded and cliquey place. Everything here needs to fit into a category or a style and this makes for boring nightlife, boring culture and can lead to boring people. In London anything is possible and anything is do-able. You can have the freedom to be who you want............which means happy times!!!

Posted by: Mohwakman on October 24, 2007 2:05 PM

My working holiday in London was amongst the best 2 years of my life. I was worried about leaving a job I liked, but as Visa requirements were then had to be there before 28th Birthday, so I made the call. I travelled a lot in Europe, I did plenty of the 'yobbo' things at walkabouts, but I also saw things that make Australia's (since English settlement anyway) history seem like yesterday. I made awesome friends and have life long memories. It was also extremely beneficial for my career. If you do it after you've got good experience and qualifications (rather than directly from Uni) you can make a lot of money compared to Oz. When it was all over I plodded away for nearly 5 years again in Sydney before deciding it was time again, now I'm working in Singapore...wouldn't ever be here if it wasn't for my experiences in London. The weather's a bit different but it's still the same sense of excitement of new people, new challenges, new cultures and experiences. It's a big world out there and there's nothing like living and working in a country to fully appreciate all it has to offer.

Posted by: the dog on October 24, 2007 2:08 PM

I rank London with New York and Sydney as one of the worlds great cities, it is on the go 24hrs a day and you can do as much or as little as you choose. I love the history, the Londoners, the pubs, clubs, the river thames, the sport and the fact i could work there and did so for 4yrs feeling fully welcomed and making many life long friends. It is a great starting/finishing point to travel to/from europe and the rest of the british isles. My girlfriend is english and everytime we arrive in London to visit friends and her family it feels to me like a 2nd home.I think i have the best of both worlds.
The one negative is the cost of living, hard to get ahead when you are on the average wage. The winters do drag on a bit but it could be worse and makes you appreciate the summers when there is nothing better than sitting in one of the pubs overlooking the Thames. English girls are the best :-)

Posted by: scott on October 24, 2007 2:12 PM

I just returned from living in London for just over two years. All my mates were gettin g married and having kids so I sold all me gear, toppped up my bank account and head to old blighty.

Now for starters, London is the most FUN place I ever been too in the world. Nope it doesn't have our gorgeous beaches or weather but the Poms certainly do know how to have fun - and they go all out to do it. Every day was an adventure for me and the historical value of the UK is astounding.

It's like living another life and being caught up in one massive wave that goes on forever and yeah when you finally do come home you think - WHY?

I would go back in a second when the timing is right. I love Australia and Australians and Sydney is still the prettiest city in the world, but Aussies just need to relax more and not work so bloody hard.

Posted by: Brock on October 24, 2007 2:13 PM

London is a funny old place for Australians and most who do the "London thing" have a love/hate relationship. They love the choices it delivers, the ability to travel, experience so many different things within such a short distance. Even the different cultures withing the same city are amazing. But on the other hand they hate the weather, the quality of housing and of course travelling on the Underground. Personally I hated the number of Australians over there, especially the ones that simply hung around in the Australian ghettos of Shepherd's Bush, Fulham and Clapham with 10 people to a house. But it is possible to stay clear of this wankery.

I lived there for just shy of five years and I too experienced all these feelings. Have been back in Oz for just over a year and it has been a real struggle. I am constantly asking myself "why I am back here". There is just something about living in London that you cannot put into words and until you have experienced it you probalby won't believe those that say this.

For me the reason for choosing London was because I had the ability to get an ancestry visa which allowed me to be there with no restrictions. I think the USA would be just as interesting but working there you have to contend with only 2 weeks holiday a year as opposed to 6 weeks in London (at least in my industry).

Posted by: Floppy Man on October 24, 2007 2:16 PM

From my travels to Europe, the only decent things about living in London are firstly, it pays well, and secondly, you can go to Europe for the weekend. Apart fronm that, yes the weather is crap, its crowded and expensive, the costs of quality, fresh food is not even close to oz.

Posted by: AFR on October 24, 2007 2:16 PM

London, is quite simply one of the worlds great cities. There are a lot of negatives that come with the positives but that is the lot of a city the size of London.

As Oscar Wilde once says "he who tires of London, tires of life", and its true.

Few cities, if any, can rival it for the breadth of experience, mix of cultures and sheer opportunity. Access to the arts is unparallelled and many of the greatest sporting events in the world are either in the city or easily accessed from there. What about the history? The architecture? Proximity to other great cultures and places? Strength of the Pound?

London is not for everyone but if you like big cities, it can't be ignored. Most Aussies seem to agree.

Posted by: PCH on October 24, 2007 2:36 PM

i have a love/hate relationship with london. when i first spent a month there in 1999, aged 19, i loved it and couldnt wait to go back. another month in 2000, i decided i had to move there asap.

in 2003 i finally made the move, only to realise living there wasnt all i thought it was cracked up to be. frankly, i found it depressing. getting up to battle the tube every morning with the other a$$hole commuters turned me into a cranky a$$shole too, i got totally sick of the pub culture, found people on the whole unfriendly and insular (poms) or irritating and pissed (aussies), found the excess of 'fashion' and 'cool' tedious and totally homogenous, tired of camden, freaked out at the numbers of people at festivals ... etc.

Sure, its great seeing lots of bands, art, and going to lots of clubs, but there's more to live than working then going out and spending your hard earned pounds on booze and rent.

I lasted 4 months then went travelling in europe instead - probably the best thing about being in the UK. i guess im just not cut out for the big city lifestyle, plus im a real outdoorsy kinda girl, despite having lived in sydney city all my life. ill visit there again, but the dream to live there was well and truly overrated. I have a British passport too so can go back whenevr I want, but would much prefer Edinburgh if I head to the UK again.

Posted by: nikki on October 24, 2007 2:40 PM

I agree, what is the obsession with london, im sure aussies can be a little more orginal. Why travel all that way to hang out with some drunk yobs at the redback or walkabout. Only when you croos the chanel can we start to fell a little better.

Posted by: jurgen on October 24, 2007 2:43 PM

A lot of it has to do with attitude.
I know people that had a self-proclaimed fantastic time in London but when they came back to Sydney you can hardly get them out of the house...too far to go etc..
When you are going to live overseas for a short period a lot of folk would tend to live in a more central location than they do back home.
Sydney (and Melbourne) has so much to offer in terms of entertainment. I made the move from the suburbs to the inner city 8 years ago and have never looked back.

Posted by: John on October 24, 2007 2:47 PM

Please, anyone who puts Sydney in the same comparative sentance as London and New York has got to be kidding themselves. Sydney is NOT an international city. It has two things going for it...beaches and weather. Anyone who has been in the city on a Saturday night will know that Sydney is a pretty dull place.

Posted by: floppy man on October 24, 2007 2:49 PM

It isn't just the working holdiday visas. Loads of Aussies have EU passports or a grandparent born in the UK. As such, the UK becomes an extremely viable option.

For the rest of us, there is the Highly Skilled Migrant Visa which if you have a bit of experience under your belt, isn't too hard to get.

We spent two years there (on an migrant visa), and at the end of it decided to move to Asia, which has the same buzz that the UK and the rest of the EU offer, but without the cost!.

London is great, but it is also a touch to far away from home for us. Here in Asia, home is a 8 hour flight away, and 4 day long weekends home are very do-able.

Posted by: Samran on October 24, 2007 2:54 PM

London, for all its obvious faults, is a truly great city. I probably wouldn't want to live there all my life, but the two years I spent there recently were some of the most exciting of my life. For anyone going there, I would strongly recommend TNT Magazine – it helped me no end. Website is www.tntmagazine.com

Posted by: Bob on October 24, 2007 3:03 PM

Somewhat of a stereotypical outlook on why Australians go there. The majority I know who have gone chose to beacuse they want to travel and worked in their chosen profession and not behind a bar. They certainly didn't go there to be with other Australians! and didn't spend every night at "The Church" or any other yobbo establishment!

Posted by: cjn on October 24, 2007 3:06 PM

Culture. London wins hands down over the US and I think that's the bigger drawcard. We know the American way of life like the back of our hands from oversaturation of Americana we witness everyday in Oz. London, UK and the whole of Europe just has more the offer the newbie backpacker, both romance and a certain level of familiarity. Once we get a taste of the good life and the travel bug bites, we start looking at other places and that's why South America is now my next target.

I spent a year in Toronto after two years in London. No offence to Toronto, but after London the only place that would've impressed would be Sydney. There's no place like home.

Posted by: Tina T on October 24, 2007 3:09 PM

Got back from London almost a year ago and it is tearing me apart that we had to leave. We did just over four years and came back for family reasons. I would pack up tomorrow and head back there in a flash. We were spoilt for choice in every aspect of a modern lifestyle.

Still have an apartment in SW London, and still follow the Premier League/Champions League even though it is broadcast very late at night.

I agree with most of the article but to answer your question as to why Aussies go there? It is because we are more like the Poms than we think we are. If you mix with the locals you will find that they are quite laidback and always looking for an excuse to enjoy themselves. Yes it is a fast pace lifestyle, but to be honest my life has not slowed down that much since moving back to Perth (of all places).

I don't really think that you have lived in London and truly experienced it until you move away from the typical Aussie boroughs & hang outs and live like a Londoner. I know that is easier to do when you are earning good pounds but it is just my opninon.

Posted by: Buzman on October 24, 2007 3:10 PM

On the subject of the smorgasbord of cultural & entertainment options...a sister was living in Darwin for a while. I asked how she coped with the relative lack of cultural activities. The reply was "It's great, actually. Whenever there's an exhibition or whatever touring, you always hear about it, and can go see it!"

Scale that up to a "non-world" city like Sydney or Melbourne. I'd bet that there are enough eligible events every single week, that if you spread that week over the entire year, all your free time would be taken up.

Scale that up again to somewhere like London or New York - you'd be lucky if you made it even 1% of the things going on, and that in itself is probably a massive exaggeration. One in a thousand, more like it, and only if you go out every night.

So, my question for people who are awed by the vast cultural activities on offer is this: "If you cannot consume even a hundredth of the culture on offer back home, how is that situation improved by going to a place where you're even more spoiled for choice?"

It's a serious question. I can only find time for about one in every ten concerts that I would want to attend in Sydney, and make it to a movie every month or two at best, and it's certainly not because I'm sitting around at home twiddling my thumbs!

I think it's a case of diversity ali. There might be 10 events on in Sydney on one given night, but none that I want to go to. If there are, say, 100 events on in one night in London, there's much more chance that one of them will appeal. - Ben

Posted by: ali on October 24, 2007 3:11 PM

Curiously, I find myself in general disagreement with you. These days, most of the people I know who go to London (and I know many) adopt the following formula:

- go to uni
- work here for 2 years or so in Australia
- get qualified as lawyers or accountants (or perhaps IT)
- go to London, get very high paying jobs, live in good spots, travel to Europe (or the US and Africa) virtually every weekend, and come back with a deposit for a house.

I can't say I know *anybody* who's gone to London and worked in a bar or lived the povvo life. I dare say not even the Eastern Europeans are bothering with that.

I also think that London *doesn't* have a great 'energy' - and all you have to do to prove that is go to New York. London fails in so many areas - pubs shut early (or they used to until very recently), the tube stops at midnight, restaurants are overpriced and mediocre in comparison to what's in Sydney or Melbourne, the list goes on.

I had an awesome time in London because I knew what I was getting myself into and made the most of it.

Right. And you never went to a pub and found yourself being served by an Aussie? Please. - Ben

Posted by: Michael on October 24, 2007 3:14 PM

Hi everyone

I'm hoping to do this very thing: to go and live (and hopefully work) in London for a few years with my fiance. But I am stuck on a few things and would appreciate any help or guidance!

This is my conundrum:

My fiance has an ancestry passport, and I work in the legal industry. (Yes I'm a lawyer so you should probably shoot me.) I'm not too fussed about getting the right job in London; I'm more fussed about getting over there with the right visa. I've tried to figure out what type of visa I'll need and I keep going around in circles.

Also, if anyone could point me in the direction of a starting point for where a couple might live in London in a 1 bedroom appartment that would be fantastic!

I'd start by following that Gumtree link. - Ben

Posted by: Very confused on October 24, 2007 3:34 PM

Your acticle rubbishes a few definate draw cards. so in total so why london.

1) it english people can speak the language and gte jobs

2) many aussies have relatives and qualify for an english passport. so it the only country in the world they can work in.

4) it is close to the variety that is europe and the east coast of the Us and canada.

5) Earning punds to fund these holidays is very wise.

6)the reason above means many people go there which inturn attrached more peoplea s they an met up with or live with their mates from home.

london\ UK is the the best chioce for all these reasons. Why would i go base myself in poland where i can't get a visa speak the language and even if i get a job i get paid very little limiting my travelling.

Posted by: troy on October 24, 2007 3:36 PM

If more Australians bothered to learn another language, perhaps then they wouldn't be restricted solely to somewhere like the United Kingdom for work prospects.

Posted by: Andrew on October 24, 2007 3:42 PM

Ben - I know you're not speaking for everyone, but that answer is pretty much what I expected.

Let's say I'm into dub reggae. London might be great because theres a dub band or club every night, but doesn't this actually *limit* my culture, rather than expand it? The more events on offer, the more likely you are to concentrate on your one particular niche, no? Which actually works *against* the whole "cultural" smorgasbord debate.

Far better, I think, to be somewhere smaller where the best option for the night might be something you wouldn't normally choose for yourself - the opera, perhaps, or tibetan throat singing. That way, you're almost forced to broaden your horizons, rather than sticking with what you already know you already like.

There's a hell of a lot on offer out there, even in a backwater like Sydney.

True - but if the only event on offer for a night is Tibetan throat singing, I'll probably just stay at home. (No offence to Tibetan throat singers.) - Ben

Posted by: ali on October 24, 2007 3:48 PM

"I can't say I know *anybody* who's gone to London and worked in a bar or lived the povvo life." --- Michael on October 24, 2007 3:14 PM

What I coincidence - I can't say I know *anybody* who's gone to London and worked in accountancy, law or IT.

Posted by: Discipline's Disciple on October 24, 2007 3:56 PM

'Very confused' - Assuming you have lived together for more than a year, get a defacto partner visa, then you have permanent resident status and are free to work where ever for however long you want...

Means you have to stay together though... ;-)

Posted by: Nodsey on October 24, 2007 3:57 PM

Posted by: Floppy Man on October 24, 2007 2:16 PM
There is just something about living in London that you cannot put into words and until you have experienced it you probalby won't believe those that say this.

Exactly, mate. I recently got home after years in the Capital, and now, even when I'm lying on the beach in early spring, I can't help a nagging feeling that the real world is actually happening way over there by the Thames.

Living in London suits a certain type of person, usually young, career and travel minded. People who like a super fast pace and can handle a bit of big city attitude. Those who don't conform to the "Aussie bogan" stereotype and prefer to discover the real grass roots of a city.

If you like the sun, the beach, surfing, suburbia and being surrounded by friends and family, then the London lifestyle isn't for you. Go on a Contiki tour. Or better yet, stay at home. Nowhere compares to Oz if you're only interested in the weather.

But if like so many people posting today, if you can look beyond the grey sky, the dirty streets and the over crowded tube, you will discover that London is magical. It's a strange kind of magic, part hate, part love, part intrigue but it's intoxicating all the same.

Posted by: Max on October 24, 2007 4:03 PM

Posted by: troy on October 24, 2007 3:36 PM

i think the comparison was more between london and other english speaking countries like USA, Canada (and maybe South Africa a at a stretch).

Posted by: i feel it on October 24, 2007 4:04 PM

I spent six years in London and had a blast. A lot has already been covered but really the attractions for me were:
1) Vibrant, always something on, great international sports matches, music festivals, theatre arts.
2) Worked as a professional(I never worked in a bar nor lived in the traditional Aussies ghettoes like Fulham and Putney)with a company that had a truly international scope.
3)The people you meet. Lots of energetic, enthusiastic and eccentric people trying to wring the best out of their time there. Not just Brits, but Antipodeans, other Europeans, Africans etc.
4) Truly global in all apsects.
5)London's actually an extremely tolerant and safe place given the size, pressures and varied origins of its population.
6) Location. It's proximity not only to mainland Europe but also the rest of England (very under-rated, especially the friendly people) and Scotland, Ireland and Wales.
7) Its proximity to Australia, in terms of culture, humour, shared history and values. I think this point is often overlooked in the debates about why on earth so many of us Aussies would choose the UK over the US or Canada. As the comedian Stephen Fry once said (he may have been quoting someone else)"You only have to put and Englishman and an Australian in a room full of Americans to make them realise how much they have in common".

Now for the downside. London is a terrible place to be broke in - the worst in my experience - so be prepared. Don't arrive with 100 bucks in your pocket and expect things to "work out". It takes a lot of time to crank the best out of London.

It can also suck you dry if you are not disciplined, about what you do, don't do, eat, drink and where you escape to.

Don't go there for the weather. Sounds obvious doesn't it, but then why do so many people pack their bags, get there and then moan about grey skies? Weather is a small sacrifice and really, if a sunny day was the be all and end all of life, Melbourne would be empty and there'd be a couple of million people living out at Broken Hill.

Posted by: crunch on October 24, 2007 4:22 PM

i have been to london and it is fantastic i only spent a month there and lived for 10 mths in scotland... i would really love to go back and live in london...

i think the appeal is the size of the city and the amount of people in it and living in th uk is the best for holidays i mean everytime you take off you can go to a different country... and it may take a couple of hours to get you there...

Australia is awesome but being so far away from the rest of the world makes it harder to see new places... at least in the UK its only a hop and a skip away!!!

Posted by: Jayne on October 24, 2007 4:28 PM

I am going to London in January 08 on a working holiday visa.

Why don't I go to USA?
Because I don't fancy getting shot.

Posted by: tmof on October 24, 2007 4:31 PM

London doesn't rain that much, well not in the 2.5years i have been here, used my umberella more in sydney... but... the nearly consistent 7months of grey sky kills you come march.
London is great, vibrant and never boring and when it is the best thing about it is you can leave it and be anywhere in Europe in a matter of hours!

Posted by: Super Yoshi on October 24, 2007 4:48 PM

Why not experience the flip side of everything you'll be happy you have for the rest of your life. Nothing made me appreciate the amazing Sydney beaches, weather, people, nightlife and outdoor lifestyle than 2 years in England. I had an amazing time there but faced with moving back for 3 years for work commitments is looking a little depressing.

Hell yes I'd rather be at Bronte on a summers day than cooped up in the Puzzle in Fulham cos it's raining. Again. But being able to do weekends in Spain, Italy, Prague and Ireland make it all very worthwhile.

Posted by: Shan on October 24, 2007 4:52 PM

Ah - London - I love to visit, so much history etc..and the vibe is great but could never live there. Too dirty, too crowded - felt like I couldn't breathe or really see the sky. And is it just me, but I found a lot of cultural groups seemed to cling to each other - not so much free and easy mixing as we get here (I am a minority group so that probably coloured my opinion)-but I remember distictly sensing and being disturbed by it.

Also - and this is purely personal experience, but from people I know who have gone over there to do the work/travel thing (excepting work transfers) I just don't ever want to be like them. They go over shallow and wanting the money and they come back shallow (with or without the money) - except with that annoying 'everything is now beneath me' attitude.

ENGLAND however is stunning.

I guess I'm lucky because finances aren't such a worry for me, and I've taken large chunks of time to travel, worked in Berlin etc.. I'm more about actually getting out of my comfort zone and really seeing how others live than taking the easy route. as I'm not in finance I'm realistic enough to know I will not be earning enough to keep up my current quality of life.

I also don't really like beer or beer culture which means London is about 50% useless for me...

Posted by: Travel Hungry on October 24, 2007 4:55 PM

London speaks for itself. The attraction is many things: escape from boring reality of home, close to europe, great nightlife and lets not forget theres not many americans here.

Posted by: RG on October 24, 2007 5:01 PM

Why dont we go to the US.....because it is to hard to get a visa....This is the great thing about london you are nearly guranteed it, and if your like most aussies you have relatives and a passport or ancestry visa....so why not go. I learnt so much from my stint in london it is an experience i will never forget and will go back again soon.....theres nothing like being in a ountry where your so far from home yet have so many of the comforts of home ie: football, vegemite and aussie flatmates....you just dont get that in any other city in the world.
I encourage everyone to do it. and would wonder why you wourldnt

Posted by: rac.... on October 24, 2007 5:06 PM

I agree with chris (? waaay up the top). There is so much more to the UK than London... I absolutely love London... to visit. I'm moving to Exeter in February to do the WHV thing but know from my visits that London isn't for me to live in. Maybe all those people who seem to hate it so much, and just use it as a base to go to the rest of Europe should head north or west and go and see something other than London! I promise the people are friendly and it's even sunny sometimes ;-)

Posted by: louise on October 24, 2007 5:07 PM

Australia is the arse end of the world and London is the epicentre of hip. London has a vibe that only NYC can compete with in terms of cosmopolitan diversity. Personally, I opted to move to London when I was older and richer and therefore able to enjoy it on a different level. It's fun to tip the young Aussies behind the bar.

Posted by: hdp on October 24, 2007 5:08 PM

Why does living in London mean putting your career on hold??? I know many people that have made a success of themselves on arriving from oz.

My only comment is that as wonderful as London is, it isn't the only great place to live in the UK. Do yourselve a favour and get outside the M25!!!!

Posted by: Adam on October 24, 2007 5:15 PM

I lived in London for 4 months last year. I stayed in a 7 bedroom house that I found on gumtree, and i was the only Aussie, the rest were Saffa's. I couldn't of asked for better house mates, there was 11 of us, and there was always someone up for a beer and chat etc...

When you get to london, the first thing you notice is the public transport is so good, the underground (when working) is damn efficient. Once you understand the spaghetti map (Map of the underground lines) you can commute to every corner of london with relative ease, just remember to "Mind the gap".

When I returned to Sydney last year, all I could think about was the good times I had in London, the people, the places, the general feel of the place. Don't get me wrong, I love Sydney to death, it is the most beautiful city in the world, but go to a pub or club, and the Sydneysiders are a bunch or pretentious pr*cks, and I am one of them. What I found so endearing about london is everyone excepts you for who you are, you can walk into a pub by yourself and guaranteed within 10 minutes some locals have invited you into their conversations and you are downing pints with them for the next couple of hours.

London is also so central to everything, be it Europe, North Africa and even the US, New York is only a 6 hour flight away. There are four airports in/around London and they are all easy to get to.

If I didn't have a mortgage and such good family here, I wouldn't think twice about moving to London for a few years....

Posted by: Ry on October 24, 2007 5:17 PM

For those with a bit of work experience - especially in finance, law, IT etc - you'll find much greater opportunities in London.

You can quite easily get jobs where you'll be earning more £ than $ (no conversion). You could be on $80-90k in Sydney and soon find yourself earning well above £100k in London.

With that kind of money it's possible to buy a property here - London properties never seem to go down in price.

You can also travel extensively in style.

If you find yourself in that situation it makes it hard to go back.

What kind of job would you take in Sydney when you return? To get the rewards and challenges you might find in your career in London could be almost impossible if you end up in a specialist field.

Where would you take your holidays when you return to Sydney? A week in the south of France is not so easy from Sydney. A weekend in New York is impossible.

You really are right in the centre of the world in London. Asia is halfway through their day when you get to work and New York gets in midway through the day.

Posted by: Sir Winston Churchill on October 24, 2007 5:17 PM

one reason i think people commenting here dont have the balls to say... drugs.cheap and plentiful.

the other.. opposites attract

Posted by: Reece on October 24, 2007 5:19 PM

It is true what everybody is saying about London being a 24 hour, large hub city but the same can be said for a lot of other places in the world which are closer to us.

Hong Kong and New York both jump to mind. Hong Kong especially leaves London for dead in terms of pace of life, affordability of living and is genuine 24 hour living.

People go out shopping and dining at the massive malls at 3am in the morning.

So why London? English language I am sure is a big factor. Historical alligance I'm sure is another.

It's funny as my rellies in the UK say that all the POMS ever want to do is move to Australia or NY.

Posted by: NL on October 24, 2007 5:19 PM

A word of warning to those thinking of doing the the visa thing...

Try to avoid arriving at the beginning of or during winter(like right now). The shock of 6 hours of murky grey light a day and going to and from work in darkness can really affect you more than you think, especially after a month or two. I had a few friends who arrived at this time and most headed elsewhere. The problem is that your 2 year visa has set dates so if you get there and can't handle it and flee to Greece for a few months then that time is lost.
Aim to get there in March or April and you'll have such a good time that when winter rolls around you won't give a rats.
Its the best thing that I ever did and met a gorgeous English Rose who now lives with me here. We plan to go back next year for a few years and I can't wait!

Posted by: Paul on October 24, 2007 5:30 PM

Why London? Why not? Don't knock it unless you've been there. For us of Anglo descent I can see the appeal - just walking around on a Monopoly board was freaky. Like it or not we are brought up on English history and stories/nursery rhymes etc and it all comes together there.

I spent a year there in 1989-90 which was the most amazing time to be in Europe with the fall of the Wall followed by the Gulf War. I will never forget the 'vibe' of the place and feeling like I was at the centre of the universe. Work was crap however but I still managed a lot of travel in Europe and the UK. Loved it.

HOWEVER... I visited a couple of years later and felt completely alien - either I had outgrown London or it had outgrown me. I think it's something you do at a certain time of life unless you're a Kiwi and stay forever.

I do dream of going back with the kids but would not spend a lot of time in London.

"..and tell me, is it still raining there in England?"
That song would always bring a tear to the eye!

Posted by: The Ashes on October 24, 2007 5:32 PM

I am an Aussie currently over in England but have made the move not to london but to thewonderful city of leeds - and a fantastic idea it was . 1) so much cheaper to get somewhere nice to live and also the northern poms are much more fun , its close enough to go to Europe still and you have the pounds to do it , it is also only 2 hours on the train to london or edinbourough so you get 3 cities for the price of 1 - London has its attractions just better not to live thier - GO LEEDS - ALL AUSSIES out their wanting everything english and an experience not just like every other Aussie backpacker Leeds is the way - also heaps of bars and clubs and 2 big unis flooding the town with talent and fun

Posted by: Josh on October 24, 2007 5:39 PM

London is old world and decayed. US is much better, people should go there instead.

Posted by: Flick on October 24, 2007 5:40 PM

Football (the round-ball kind), close to 100s of European destinations and a much better salary compared to Oz.

We're so isolated here in Sydney also.

Posted by: JJ on October 24, 2007 5:43 PM

Because somebody told them that Es are only £2! The sight of young Australians off their heads is not edifying, although it's as London as big red buses now. Ironically sighting obnoxious, tw***ed Aussies is a bit of tourist thing to do.

Posted by: Londoner on October 24, 2007 5:55 PM

My wife and I moved here in 2003 to work and travel for a couple of years. Four years and two kids later we are still here with no intention of leaving anytime soon. True there are more Australians here than ever, they also rank equal 2nd in average earnings just below the Americans. So why stay? Work opportunities and earning potential is far greater than back home. Looking at my ragged passport I can count in excess of 40 trips to Europe, the US and Middle East in the last four years. Rethink the weather situation - the country is not on water restrictions and there are seasons here. Skiing in the alps beats Perisher any day. The range and quality of food is greater than you will get in Australia - head to the farmers markets. The tax rate is lower and its great to be able to save for an aussie house in sterling. Don't get me wrong, I will be moving back to Oz - there is no place I would rather bring up my kids and I find myself watching surfing docs on Sky over winter but views of living here can be tainted by perceptions of people who have never left Australia. Thank god the Springboks won.

Posted by: Gareck Wilson on October 24, 2007 5:57 PM

I spent a year in London and loved it. It's a massive cliche but the place has personality. It may not be the prettiest city in the world (although there is a lot of beauty there if take the time to find it) but it has so much history (name a famous european historical figure who didn't spend time there, visit or at least have an opinion of the place), and its such a massive focal point for world culture that you can find anything you want there and more importantly you often find things you never anticipated. The only serious downsides were the cost and the crime.

Posted by: JIm on October 24, 2007 5:59 PM

Best three years of my life 1997-2000(almost). First baby born there as well. Love the city, but loved Hampstead our home even more. London rocks. Sydney merely rocks +.

Posted by: Shire boyt on October 24, 2007 5:59 PM

I don't know why more Aussies don't ditch London and head to some of the smaller cities. I've been in Manchester for a year now and there is no way I would swap it with London. The people up north are much more friendly, the cost of living is on par with Sydney, if not cheaper and best of all (for me at least) the best ales are made up north.

Also most cities like Manchester still have an international airport with discount airlines so trips to Europe are still easy and cheap.

If I didn't move to Manchester, I reckon Edinburgh would be even better.

Posted by: bkmad on October 24, 2007 6:00 PM

This is true and i do wonder sometimes why im here, the weather is horrible the food is worse, BUT it is all about the experience, it does feel like your struggling to run up a hill when it comes to trying to find London's good points however why would you want to live in the Australian bubble your whole life and not have tried something else, if anything it makes you appreciate home soo much more!... and i can go home whenever i want. This may be the mother country but Australia is Gods country!!!!

Posted by: JustGotHere on October 24, 2007 6:10 PM

Well not all Aussies in London fit into the backpacker, bar, construction worker stereotype!!
Some work in the largest financial market in the world, and are handsomely rewarded for doing so!!! Will be tough retiring to Australia when I hit 35!!! Oh and US and Europe are only a short flight.

Posted by: Iceman on October 24, 2007 6:14 PM

I recently spent a year in London after being transferred for work and yes I agree the museums and the travel to Europe are great. But isn't all this talk about young Australians making the traditional trek to London a little bit dated and passe. There is a much more exciting and relevant place just to our north and its called Asia. To spend some time in an region that is the future of our nation is much more fruitful and relevant.
Let's face it London is just another European capital without the buzz and excitement of say Bangkok or Beijing. I kind of found London dull, the infrastructure third world and the people well... English

Posted by: glen norris on October 24, 2007 6:15 PM

Hey peoples, i moved to London about 8 months ago, and i can not stress this enough, London (i hate to use this) but it Rocks! u have so many things to do, people to meet etc.. for e.g. i walked past Billy Zane last weekend.. that ever happened in Syd.. not likely.. anyway, got a visa and come over here, some will get home-sick then love it, or some will just love it from the moment they got off the plane! DO IT!!

Posted by: jeremybennett on October 24, 2007 6:23 PM

i've lived here for over five years. married a local lass, bought a property. intended to stay 2 years and backpack through Europe.

in addition to the benefits raised in the article, London is at the centre of the world stage for entertainment, art, fashion, journalism, the list goes on... it is embedded with a deep culture.

Don't get me wrong Australia has plenty of culture in this respect but, it is a long way short of what London can offer. i'll definately return to settle in Oz but London will be hard to leave for these reasons.

Posted by: living in london on October 24, 2007 6:28 PM

Firstly i think the majority of the sentiment is right, in the fact we come to Engaland to travel and experience a different world. Australia is so totally isolated from a large protion of the world.

I would add that if you come to England, steer clear of London apart from the tourist stuff.

I have lived in England for over 18 months with the majority in Manchester, and not only is it cheaper the airports to all over Europe are far more accessible and you have plenty of country side to explore, the Lakes District is up the road, Chester and York are a stone throw away along with North Wales. The money is the same in London and the North West yet my outlay up North was FAR FAR less.

I have now unfortunately had to relocate to London due to work and the missus, and to be quite frank it has absolutely nothing on Manchester.

So my conclusion, get over here if you have the chance, cheap flights all over Europe, Awesome earning potential and great people (especially in the north). Just steer clear of London it will save you heaps in the long run.

Cheers
Jarrod

Posted by: jarrod wynn on October 24, 2007 6:46 PM

Really interesting reading all the comments...I am from the suburbs but London the last 10 years, we have moved to Sydney for lifestyle.... London is great when you are young and if you earn good money then it is even better....having Europe on the doorstep is fantastic...but at the end of the day its too busy, its dirty and it ait great to bring up kids and the weather is crap 3/4 of the year.

I think it's a shame many Australians have a problem with the English and that there are a few maybe more that love to go to London just to hate it......

p.s why do you hate losing to English so much.....I have never read such biased reporting in my life!!!!

Posted by: angela on October 24, 2007 6:51 PM

As someone who is currently in London, I can think of only one reason I flocked here in the first place -

Weekend trips to Europe!

I get on a plane (at very cheap rates) and in two hours I'm in Spain, or Italy, Or Portugal, or Italy (I may be a little obsessed with Italy). Back home I get in a plane for two hours and I'm in... Newcastle.

Posted by: Mel on October 24, 2007 6:51 PM

It is a total myth that cities like Sydney and Melbourne are cheaper than London. Clothes, Beer, Cars, Books, Electronic Goods etc are all the same price or cheaper than in Aus. Sure, housing and food are more expensive but not comparably to earnings for a similar job. I will always return to Aus but the opportunities for career, travel, and culture in London (and Europe) are unsurpassed. I also recommend that all intended visitors stay well away from the 'traditional' Ausiie/Kiwi/Saf haunts. They are terrible and you can do much better. Why go around the world to meet people you wouldn't give the time of day to at home ?

Posted by: TrueBlue on October 24, 2007 6:56 PM

London - well it does have an awesome buzz around it. There is always somthing going on; gallery openings, shows, etc etc. However, it seems to attract plenty of the type of Aussies that have forced the Brits to come up with the acronym NAFA!

It is very apparant that plenty of Aussies head to London because it is safe, english is the main language and there are plenty of Aussies. Unfortunately this means that there are a small minority venturing to London that should never have left Australia at all!

The perfect example of this was the yobbo (wearing the Aus flag as a cape) I encountered at the Aus v Wales World Cup match in Cardiff. He'd obviously just stepped out of the walkabout and onto the Cardiff train. Was cringing every minute as he swore at the welsh, slagged off their singing and generally made a drunken fool of himself. Fortunately there were far fewer of his kind during the matches in
France!

London is still popular but slowy Aussies are venturing a little futher afield. New working holiday visas for France mean there are more and more crossing the channel, especially for seasonal work in the Alps or on the boats.

I live in Paris and it's great to meet Aussies living here because they are far more culturally minded than their London counterparts and not afraid to be out of their comfort zone.

Posted by: France Rocks on October 24, 2007 7:04 PM

I went to london intending to stay for 2 years, 9 years later I'm still here.
Some people like it, some don't.

Posted by: stuckinlondon on October 24, 2007 7:04 PM

I've lived in London for the best part of 25 years. Have loved 99% of it. The big thing you have to remember is that everything said about it is true. It can be great, and third world at the same time. Even after all this time I still find worlds within worlds here. One thing within another. It's constantly changing and evolving. Very little here is obviously what it seems, and by the time you have worked it out it's gone. Most other cities and fairly transparent ie: New York. Compared to London, Sydney is a small town, if not a village. You can't come here and expect it to be like Bronte, or Mosman. That's what makes it fun and interesting. I didn't particularly like it when I first got here. It does take a long time to really get to grips with it. But then it's great. I do think it's very difficult for Australians to love it for many reasons. It's so brutal in many ways, the weather, the people and the property prices. As someone correctly stated, people in Sydney try too hard to be sophisticated and worldly. By definition you just are all those things here. The infastructure here is third world, but then Oscar Wilde used to use the tube, it's that old. It does have a vitality that is addictive and inspiring. Just ask Mozart who lived in Soho or Karl Marx who wrote The Communist Manifesto there, or even John Logie Baird who invented TV in Greek St. On a different cultural note I say to Australians that whine (as they are prone to do here) "if you don't like it f**k off back home"

Posted by: Jack on October 24, 2007 7:04 PM

Having spent many years in London and being fortunate to travel back to Sydney alot - I would like to contest one constant negative of London -for those who think London is expensive - can you please tell me the price of a beer in a bar in Sydney

Posted by: Perplexed on October 24, 2007 7:11 PM

I've lived in London (and still do)for about 14 years over 2 visits. The weather isn't as bad as you might think, and rather than an enormous sprawl of suburbia, it's a densely populated, largely self contained collection of villages. Some of it's horribly urban and bleak, but the trick is finding the greens and heaths and enormous parks and the villages tucked away where you least expect them. These Brits had urban planning well worked out back in the day, although I'm not so sure now.

Australia exists in splendid isolation, which is fine when the troubles of the world are far away, but if you're a "blue" rather than a "green" and you want to go beyond the horizon, just about anywhere is better than Australia. In Britain foreign travel isn't an exclusive privilege for the well to do: just about everyone does it because it's so much cheaper. A stronger currency and doesn't hurt.

The real eye-opener for me was returning to Australia after ten years away. I got a real sense of what Australia was founded as: namely a gaol (as they used to spell it). There's something about the Australian psyche that imprisons most of them; generations of deprivation of contact with the country of their origins that's convinced them they'll never return.

Australia is a working man's paradise, but if you want more than footy and the beach and a media obsessed with the foreign success of "our Kylie" and "our Russ", then Oz is a place to escape. Think "Jailbreak" by AC/DC.
If Kylie Minogue and Russel Crowe can do it, anyone can. You don't have to be a fabulous success raking it in: you can be a moderate success having fun.

Posted by: moses on October 24, 2007 7:15 PM

The reason why so many people choose London is because it's different. For me, 28 years in Brisbane, two seasons a year and people who are 20 years behind the rest of the world was enough to entice me. Plus the ability to start my career with better opportunities was another factor.

Posted by: Nate on October 24, 2007 7:17 PM

I have to disagree with the majority of the comments in this blog.

Firstly, London has done wonders for my career. The media market here is so diverse that there are more jobs than people who can fill them. In Sydney the competition for the decent roles was fierce. Since I've been here I've been able to find a role that I could only have dreamt of getting back home.

Secondly the food here is good. The only thing is you have to hunt for it. You can stroll into any restaurant in Sydney and be almost sure of getting at least a half-decent meal. In London taking a chance can lead to disappointment. However if you listen to friends and do your research you'll find high quality food from all around the world (I've never seen an Ethiopian restaurant in Sydney) at decent prices. You might need to leave West London though, I know this can be quite difficult for most Australians.

What it comes down to for me is the issue of quality. The high poppulation means that unlike back home everything worth seeing comes to London. Last year I saw a 40 foot high wooden Elephant operated by hydraulics walk through the centre of town.

My message would be maybe you should think about leaving those Aussie mates behind, wave goodbye to Putney and forget about the Walkabout. London has an incredible amount to offer if you remove the blinkers.

Posted by: Alex on October 24, 2007 7:19 PM

Is this a serious question Ben?

Well, it's a great first point of call as there's employment, transport links to Europe and we share a common language.

Plus it is a great, vibrant, interesting city. I was in London for a while and while I loved it, I moved to Dublin and love it even more.

London, is a no-brainer really when it's your first long trip abroad for those reasons I mentioned above and it is a heap of fun. Personally I prefer Dublin, Edinburgh and Glasgow but London is a great spot.

Posted by: SD on October 24, 2007 7:34 PM

I have talked about my time in London on the Coming Home Blues blog already.

I love London becasue of many point raised in the article. I love the vibe and exctiement. I love the fact there is always something to do. I find Sydney people now very cliquey and Sydney feels like a very big country town after 18 months in London. Its dead on a week night! Its a disaster for a single woman. Lastly Sydney is just too far away from everywhere. Sorry, but a weekend in Adelaide doesn't have quite the same ring to it as a weekend in Rome or Paris or even Riga.

Been trawling websites for years trying to find ways to get back. Even had an email today from someone asking when I would be in London and available for be considered for work. Explained in my reply (again) I would need a work permit and so cannot leave without a job. Highly Skilled Migrant visas are heavily biased toward younger people (I am 33) or those who have studied in the UK or earned a lot of money (Average $$ is not enough)

Would love to think I will break through the red tape and make it back legally one day but at the moment I am fighting the law and the law is winning.

Posted by: Strawberries on October 24, 2007 7:49 PM

Weather has nothing to do with it!
We want to experience a truly cosmoplitan city like London not one so removed from the rest of the world. London has real diversity - it´s exciting, full of life, culture, good money, good food and not far from the rest of the world.

Shame that can be too many Australians in certain quarters.

Get there as fast as you can!!!!

Posted by: Brooks on October 24, 2007 7:55 PM

I went to London in 1986. I thought I'd stay for a while but decided against it. My Australian accent attracted the only racism I've ever encountered anywhere. I know that snide remarks about convict ancestors and being from the "colonies" (several a day!) aren't on the same level as apartheid but it is something I can very well do without. But it is a GREAT place to visit!!

Posted by: Rodney on October 24, 2007 8:05 PM

best thing in london is all the not-english. 250,000 poles, 80,000 spanish, heaps of swedes, latinos, french, greeks, turks, pakistanis, indians, even south africans.

If you shipped all the english people to the bottom of the ocean then England would be great. However I will give them that english people are useful to run the country; after all one legacy of english colonialism is efficient post (altho not working at moment as postal strike in UK).

That said, as much as I love polish people, I didn't like warsaw and probably wouldn't live there; there's something about having sooo many different nations in one place, and that place not being their home that makes everyone a little mad and experimental and that's what makes london great.

But yes, sh1t geezers, followed by sh1t australians, are the worst thing in london by a mile.

Posted by: pmb on October 24, 2007 8:07 PM

I was in Barcelona on Saturday, sitting at a bar overlooking the city after a 2 hour flight to get there.

Point being you can't fly 2 hours from Sydney and experiance a whole different culture, language, history etc.

London is an an awesome city, but it's London's accessibility to so many different countries is what makes it so amazing.

You can't understand it until you've lived here.

Posted by: The Big O on October 24, 2007 8:07 PM

I decided to move to London for between 6 months to a few years depending on how I took to it. It's now been a year and I have no intention of ever going back to Sydney.

London has bad weather? You can have Sydney's 40 degree heat. Lousy food? You'll get anything Sydney has plus more. Full of Poms? Full of Poles, Kiwis, Aussies and Safas more like it (not to mention people from every other part of the world.)

But best of all from my point of view: the travel opportunities. I now have access to thousand year old cities in Europe, along with any number of countries and regions all with distinct cultures, foods and dialects. I would be difficult for me to justify moving back to such an isolated place with such a homogeneous culture.

Posted by: New Londoner on October 24, 2007 8:09 PM

I'm from Sydney, lived in a beuatiful harbourside home for many years, but i've been here for 4 yrs now and intend to stay for at least another 5. If you really have to ask why London? than there's a good chance you will be one of those idiotic backpackers that spend all their time in a Walkabout, reminiscing about Neighbours episodes and drinking their old favourite VB, while watching aussie sport - what's the point of that?. Don't come to London if that's what you want. Come to London if you want to experience a truly global city, if you want to have access to europe and want to actually broaden your horizons - and remember you can always go back to Australia. Remember also that London is in Europe and when you come here you live a European lifestyle, if you want to just sink tinnies and talk footy then don't waste your time - just go on a contiki tour and then go back to Australia.

Posted by: ileftsydneyforlondon on October 24, 2007 8:09 PM

I think London is like a big theme park/hotel that people check in/check out of as it suits. While you are tewntysomething with a few quid in your pocket what a laugh. Then the kids come, and no where could be finer than a beachy suburb around Sydney. A man who is tired of London isn't tired of life but he probably is tired of drab grey surroundings, the extremely transient nature of the place and the fact that a decent apartment in an area where you won't be mugged or have to live next to a crack house costs $1000 per week. Oh and the fact that its full of people who want to change it and some areas are no go if you are white.

Posted by: Big Bad Bazza on October 24, 2007 8:14 PM

I still believe Sydney is the prettiest city in the world but another fallacy of people in Australia is the tube - its horrible and crowded - give me a break - they come every 3-5mins (ok there may be delays) - it gets you all over London Zone 1 to Zone 6 to the point where having a car is a luxury - trains in Sydney are a joke - miss one on a saturday night and the next takes 40mins and then only takes you to half way point of your journey. Re being crowded -hope on a train in Sydney at 8am on a weekday morning in the middle of summer -thats an experience!

Posted by: Perplexed on October 24, 2007 8:20 PM

I am currently living in the UK on a 2 year working holiday visa. I personally don't really like England, the only reason I am here is because the pound is strong currency to earn and it's easier and cheaper to fly in and out of europe.

I've pretty much seen everything I want to see in Europe so I am heading back to Australia ASAP as I can't stand the english any longer haha

Posted by: Adam on October 24, 2007 8:30 PM

I'm an Aussie who has been living in London for over 5 years, I have a British passport, have only been to a Walkabout twice, and cheered for South Africa on Saturday... And I still love it here.

The trick to enjoying living in a foreign city is to meet the locals and to NOT stick to your countrymen. Only then can you really benefit from living in such a great city, working in some of the biggest companies in the world, earning pounds to send home at favourable exchange rates, and having the rest of the world so close to you to visit. Far to many people move overseas with Aussies, live, work and play with Aussies, and return home without a single 'foreign' friend.

And here's a hot tip - if you move to London and don't like it, don't spend your days whining and bitching about how nothing is as good as back home. It was your choice to move here so make the choice to move back. There's no prize for who lives in London the longest, and there's no shame if you leave after only a few months. But if you do stay and complain to your friends about absolutely everything, you'll find that slowly but surely your invitations to pub/park/weekends away slowly disappear.

Posted by: RJD on October 24, 2007 8:34 PM

I don't really understand this blog. So Australia has decent weather and decent food, so what? Young Aussies aren't allowed to go and experience anywhere else?

Posted by: Dan on October 24, 2007 8:52 PM

I'm living in london at the mo for the 2nd time round. First time was in 2000, it has changed enormously since that first freezing day I landed here. The foods better, the pays better and yes there are more aussies but you can avoid that by staying out of the walkie. There is nothing better than a summers day in London, the city just buzzes. I even went surfing in Cornwall this year and I must say the coastline was pretty nice. Sure you miss the beaches and the weather but I spent 2 gorgeous weeks in Croatia this summer and I must say there were some spectacular beaches there not to mention the most amazing food. Why London? Because of what it has to offer. Dont come here to "find yourself" come here to take the best parts of it and learn to put up with the rest.

Posted by: amanda on October 24, 2007 8:53 PM

No worries Ben - my hatred of all that Tim stands for clouded my usual wit :-) Yes, I was going for the Poms - too many friends in London now to do otherwise.

Look, the thing is it just annoys me when we see the kind of comments from idiots like Tim (very early post). If you don't like London that's fair enough - it's not for everyone, hell even a lot of English don't like it. But, I simply don't understand those Aussies who obviously hate the English in general but still insist on going there. Perhaps they just want to go there so they can suffer the cold weather and 'warm' beer and then say that they were right after all.

It doesn't have to be about which city is the best. Just go with an open mind, enjoy the energy, the history and the sense of being 'in the middle of it all' and then decide if it's for you or not.

Posted by: Ross on October 24, 2007 9:02 PM

First of all, I believe Brock may be the first person in history of accusing Australians of working too hard, we're still seeking confirmation from the Guinness people. In the mean time I'll thank you not to insult my countrymen like that.

My sister and one of my best mates went to London. I get it if you're earning the dosh you need, but otherwise, like anywhere, it sucks if you're poor. I guess it's nicer to be poor when there are a lot of things to distract you from the fact, even though, ironically, those are the same things reminding you of it, too.

If you've read this far, here's my pearl of wisdom for all yea who enter here donning a uni degree. Work as a teacher in Korea, save 20k in a year and use that momentum elsewhere, but sssshhhh, don't tell everyone, I don't want to be crowded when I'm eating my 킴밥, :-)

Posted by: Gary on October 24, 2007 9:02 PM

I left Sydney in 2001. Attempted a return in 2005, but that lasted only 9 months. The availability of professional positions was limited and the money was about 60% what you can get over here. Shame, because had to leave behind the family and the in-laws but had no choice really if I want to pursue my career. Same goes for a lot of my mates who are still in London. "Came over for a year and stayed for 20." Apart from the usual critisism of London, it is the commercial capital of the world and sets you up for those jobs you can only dream about.

Of all the guys who started out in London in 2001, most are now in various other parts of Europe: eastern Europe, Monaco, Germany in senior management roles. I ended up in Athens.

London still remains the capital for us though and we meet up at least twice a year when we can arrange meetings to coincide with each other.

Europe is full of Australian professionals and all started out in London.

Posted by: Mike on October 24, 2007 9:03 PM

I've been living in London for 2.5 years now and have no plans to move back to Oz for at least 5 years.
The things I love about London are the people. As I am not originally from Sydney I found it a very unfriendly city to break into. In London so many people come from around the world they are much more welcoming to people. It is actually quite difficult to find a 'real' Londoner.

The social life here is great. In the summer you can sit outside with a Pimms until 10pm and in the winter you can head to the pub for a roast and a pint by the fire.

I actually like the weather here better than Sydney. I hated the humidity and drenching rains in Sydney. Here they have the 4 distinct seasons and while the winter can be tough somedays I always find it is over quicker than I ever expected.

The work I can do here is amazing. I get to work in the head offices of the biggest companies in the world. The money I get paid is about 5 times what I got in Australia before I left.

I think anyone with professional qualifications and a few years work experience should come to London and earn some great £££'s

Posted by: Emma on October 24, 2007 9:14 PM

I've lived in London for 10 years and I can honestly say that it offers much more culture, style and opportunity than Australia ever could. I'm not talking about the ol' living in Earls Court 30 other Aussies and never leaving the Aussie pub - I'm talking reaaaallly experiencing living here.
British people are lovely, and I think the general dislike of the 'coldness' of Londoners is unfounded. There are 11 million people in this city at any given time - people are bound to put up their walls for protection. I'd much prefer it here than have to deal with fake, shallow Sydneysiders who's idea of culture is a pot of yoghurt. You can keep your sunshine as far as Im concerned.

Posted by: defector on October 24, 2007 9:15 PM

The naysayers here are fairly predictable.

London, for a start, is an amazing place, and although the weather can be difficult, there are so many great pubs, events and people to meet I don't notice half the time. I came over here a bit older than the average backpacker, so my goals were different. The UK is a great place to get your career humming along again. There's truckloads of opportunities in terms of increasing skills and experience. Sydney or Melbourne don't have the same hunger for skilled workers as London, probably because they aren't as big.

One of the most important lessons one can learn in the UK, if one has their eyes open and ears to the ground, is the need to deal with radicalisation and 'the west is evil' stereotyping. So, lots of challenges for the UK in dealing with it, and very interesting to see how GB does deal with it long term.

Posted by: Greg on October 24, 2007 9:16 PM

Hello, stereotypes! You know what, I might be an Aussie in London, but I abhor the Walkabout, I don't live in Earl's Court and I don't get pissed every night. I actually didn't come all the way to the other side of the world to surround myself with the comforts of home. Yes, it might be nice to dip into every now and then, but I'm here for a different experience, and I will never understand those who come here, live at the Walkie, never speak to a non-Antipodean, and then go home complaining about how rude British people are...

Posted by: Lauren on October 24, 2007 9:18 PM

I avoided London and went to Dublin instead. I can think of nothing worse than meeting hoardes of Australians everywhere I go. That isn't why I moved away from Sydney...

More Aussies don't go the US because of no Working Holiday Visa, and Canada because they have a quota. So there. :)

Posted by: Trent on October 24, 2007 9:24 PM

I think a lot of what you say can be true of the Australian experience. Some of the comments are interesting though. I've lived in London for a year and am on an Ancestry visa so have had no problems finding jobs. My friends who are on working holiday visas aren't finding it so easy though. Be under no illusions - I'm sure some people manage to get brilliant jobs on WHV however most don't. Why would a company employ an Aussie when they know (from experience no doubt) that they're going to go off travelling at any opportunity and also can only work legally for a year. There are so many talented people in London - companies are better off employing someone who's more stable and career focused. A lot of my friends, who have work experience and are university educated, are working in office temp jobs because that's all they've been able to find.

Posted by: Caitlin on October 24, 2007 9:29 PM

I lived in London for 2 years about 10 years ago...best experience and a wonderful place to base yourself if you want to travel and see the world.I think everyone should take 2 years out of their life and experience a different country and all of the adventures that come with it. I was a teacher so had lots of work prospects - mainly at the dodgy schools where no English teachers would dare go but anyway.... Also did the Pub thing on weekends which was also lots of fun - was only paid about 3 pounds an hour but it was something I would have never done in Syd. Go with an open mind and you will have the time of your life. Australia will always be there and you will return with so many great tales and adventures!

Posted by: jen on October 24, 2007 9:49 PM

Dude, I think you're about 30 years out of date. I went to London with all my mates and all of us made heaps more money than we did here in Sydney and amplified our careers immensely. I've now got European business experience in top firms that people who stayed behind in Oz do not.

Plus you get to travel, experience new things, meet new people, enjoy a lot more social events and much much more.

And the London weather isn't *that* bad - you get a good three weeks of sun in July :-)

Posted by: Paul on October 24, 2007 9:49 PM

I've been living here for over 10 years and love the place. Yes it's difficult but to me that's a challenge. Yes, it's convenient but I still travel everywhere. Biggest reason? Opportunity that I couldn't get in Australia. I don't follow the Australian dream, nor the British nor the American and I'm certainly not going to spend my entire time pissed in a Walkabout drinking Fosters and moaning about the weather (as so many do!). Pomms are people too, just like Australians I believe, they permit you to be yourself. Maybe London and Sydndey are not that different after all!

Posted by: alpha on October 24, 2007 9:53 PM

London's weather is terrible, its restaurants are expensive, and often mediocre and its people are unfriendly. But it's also a city which provides a much-needed escape from the entrenched provincialism that afflicts Australia.

Posted by: Des on October 24, 2007 10:07 PM

"I've been back to the UK twice and avoided England both times....I'll take the Scots over the Poms anyday."

Jesus. Can you imagine being so bitter as to travel around the world then avoid visiting a place because of a preconception? Wouldn't you at least go to make your own mind up? Maybe that's just me!

On the food thing, I'm a big one for walking out of sh** restaurants. I think we English have been reluctant to speak up before. If everyone says 'Hang on a minute, I'm not paying for this rubbish' and leaves, the chancers running these heaps will be forced to change their ways. Don't be shy people!

Posted by: Dave on October 24, 2007 10:08 PM

One other thing I noticed about all these posts. A lot people like the idea of how close London is to other destinations.
That means, the best thing about being in London - is not being in London. You suffer so you an get to other places easily.
You would do yourself a huge favor by living in a much better place, and take annual trips to see all of these places.

Posted by: Jeremy on October 24, 2007 10:11 PM

Ah, this old and very worn path. The Aussie in London.

Well its been four years now and I am still in London. Not every Australian comes to London to get bar work, that’s just old, the Polish now come to London to get bar work, and most other 'service jobs' ... There
are a huge amount of Australians here doing amazing jobs and representing Australia as it should be, not
as beer swilling, sexists, that talk about the ‘the outback’ (most fellow Australians have not even explored
their own back yard)

Anyway, this City is amazing, its rich in culture, and diversity. The key is you have to get off your bar stool and find what you want to experience, it wont come to you. If you want a lovely meal, its here, you just have to find it, if you want a 'traditional bar' experience, you have to search for it ... if you want to see more than London, you have to go and do it. .. Sun and blue water is only 2 hours away. No one should whinge about London. Remember the saying ' If man becomes tired of London, he is tired of life'

Posted by: Stillhere on October 24, 2007 10:17 PM

There are MUCH better cities in Europe than London. Aussies are just scared to go anywhere else because nobody speaks a foreign language! If we all learnt a language or two at school (properly & intensively!), I'm sure we'd all be off to much more exotic locations. I've been to London many times and the English culture is so similar to the Australian that I get bored very quickly. I'd rather just live in Australia where a glass of wine doesn't cost $20 and where the weather's great!

I've been living in Vienna, Austria for over a year now. Yes, it really IS possible to live somewhere in Europe but London! People just need to get serious about languages!

Posted by: Christine on October 24, 2007 10:36 PM

Its all about the money. My girl and I earnt a shite load over there. Saved enought to buy a camper and enjoy and easy three months around europe without penny pinching, then brought enough home for a deposit on a house.

The food can be fantastic. The beer is better. A night out doesn't necessarily mean the city you live in, jump on cheap flight and you can have a saturday night in Dublin or wherever. Brilliant.

The biggest drag is other Australians, but if you know where to avoid then its all good.

still I cant stand that England got in the Rugby world cup final :)

Posted by: hamish on October 24, 2007 10:55 PM

I have lived in London for over two years and the place just keeps growing on me.. I love it that you can get from London to some random city in Latvia and it costs the same as going from Melbourne to Sydney! The nightlife and restaurants are top notch. If i wanted to settle down and buy a house I would be in Aus, but I've got plenty of time to do that. Aus is the best place in the world but you cant say that till you've seen something else!

Posted by: Alex on October 24, 2007 11:00 PM

Sorry, you're knocking the food in London? It has teh best restaurants in the world - and that's teh opinion of people far more qualified to judge than you or me.

As for the weather, well, yes it has a winter, but on a bright spring or summer's day, there's no where on Earth I'd rather be. Find a beer garden and the buzz is just incredible.

I have been here in London for four years now, and I cannot imagine going back to Australia, at least not for a while.

And a word of advice for anyone thinking of moving over here: do not, ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, ever, ever set foot in a Walkabout Inn (and I include in taht definition the Redback at Acton and the Fulham Slug).

Posted by: James on October 24, 2007 11:06 PM

Ben,
I have been living in England for the past 4 year. I came on the working holiday and have always worked in my profession. I have never worked in a pub and dont know anyone working in a pub.

The food is actually fine.
The gastro pub is sadly lacking in Sydney.

My friends and I probably get out of London once a month. Spain last month, Prague Nov...

I have always lived in nice flats with no more than 4 people. So i think your article is full of stereotypes. Could probably have done with some more research???!!

And i dont live in Putney!

Posted by: Melanie on October 24, 2007 11:07 PM

We returned a few months ago from London after spending the last 9 years there. It was a life changing experience for us. We made many great friends there, travelled a great deal, worked in many interesting places, went through the pain of buying and selling a house there, and had our daughter in a London hospital. I love the place.

Posted by: Bruce Blackshaw on October 24, 2007 11:28 PM

I've lived in both Sydney and London for long periods. I love both places and have amazing memories of each.

One of the biggest things I hate about London is not the whinging poms, but the whinging Aussies...."it rains too much, its too cold, its too expensive, the food is rubbish, too busy, tube is overcrowded etc etc." But if you don't like it, you've got 2 choices - stop complaining or leave!

If you want to leave near the beach live in Oz. If you want to live in a vibrant, exciting metropolis that never sleeps with so much great music, restaurants, theatre, museums and travel options then go to london.

I definitely think it's a place where you need money to enjoy everything on offer. So get some good work experience first so you can can get a good job and earn enough money to enjoy london.

Even if you end up hating it, at least you would have enriched you life as a result.

Posted by: woollyknuckles on October 24, 2007 11:28 PM

I lived in Sydney for 10 years and moved back to London recently.

Yep, miss the weather and the sun. Don't miss Ozsies on the whole - the bragging gets to you after a while - tired og hearing how everyone is a legend.

Having said that, London can be rude and the crowds can drive you insane at times. The triakc is to get out of London when you get the chance - the country his a lot more diverse than Australia plu s you don't need to drive for 3 days to get to the next interesting tourist attraction.

As for being 3rd world - don't make me laugh - have you been to Coober Peddy recently?

Oh yeh - better rugby team to...

Posted by: Bytor on October 24, 2007 11:30 PM

I first went to London in 1996 for an originally planned 12 months. Did the whole aussie thing - drunken nights at the Walkabout and Sundays at the Church, lived with a heap of other Aussies and backpackers and met a few locals. However I am still here. After going home for 6 months to then realise that I wasn't ready to settle down. I came back.

I travelled solidly for 6 months all around Europe and then integrated myself in to London life. I love Australia with a passion and Sydney is the most fantastic place on Earth (I still come home once a year) but there is something about London. The galleries, the eclectic markets, the countryside just 20 miles outside and of course Europe on your doorstep. I earn great money (and I'm only a PA not a merchant banker) and have travelled the world and met some amazing people along the way. After living 10 years in London the word dull never springs to my mind.

Yes when I have kids etc the first thing I will do is get on a plane and come home (with my beloved englishman in tow!) but for now I'm enjoying life and 30 years from now I'll be able to tell the grandkids about some of the amazing times of my life and most of them will be when I lived in London.

London is a right of passage that no-one should miss if they have the opportunity.

Posted by: DR on October 24, 2007 11:34 PM

God people. Enough with the incorrect quote attribution. Dr Samuel Johnson said "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life." Not Oscar Wilde. Not K A Grant. Not whoever else you reckon your year 10 history teacher said it was.

Posted by: Jen on October 24, 2007 11:38 PM

London is boring, the most popular activity is drinking. Everyone is ugly, even the rich people. Everyone hates everyone else. Nothing works properly (the English couldn't organise a crap in a diarrhoea ward). The best thing about London is Paris.

Came, Saw, Left - but not back to Sydney (the Most Beautiful City in the World) but to the Biggest City in the World, yep Edo.

For those about to come here, unless you are 21 and want to get pissed a lot, I feel sorry for you.

Posted by: Tom on October 24, 2007 11:41 PM

I am currently living in London but longing for Sydney.

London is going on for the about 18th month of winter, the sun will soon set at 2:30pm. As for night life, it good because there is nothing else to do...

Currently the thing that keeps me here is Europe and my French girlfriend!

If I could speck any other language other than English I would have lift to work in Europe about 2 years ago.

Posted by: Dave on October 24, 2007 11:58 PM

I'm off to the UK next year on a working holiday visa - not for the weather, nor the food (and definitely not for the pubs as I don't drink), it's for the experience!!!

I know it'll boast my professional career, giving me international work experience (an advantage over others on getting a top job anywhere). PLUS they pay heaps more over there for my profession than they do here in Sydney.

Using London as my base, I will also get to travel and see more of Europe at my leisure, which is actually cheaper than a rushed, tight scheduled 4 week long European bus tour.

I'm really looking forward to it.

I guess the main thing is... the more I prepare for my trip, and put into it, the more I'll get out of it.

Posted by: Leah on October 25, 2007 12:34 AM

Ben, fantastic article and spot on. I'm currently reading this over a late lunch at my desk in my London office, having arrived here a couple of months ago (not my first trip, I've been dropping through here since my first visit as a backpacker in 1997). I agree with each of your comments, and while I'm managing a decent amount of travel to Europe I have plenty of putney-bound friends who aren't, and yes for the first time ever I found myself barracking for south africa on the weekend.

Posted by: Mike on October 25, 2007 12:42 AM

Funny how any blog on London gets a million responses within the first day of posting, whereas a topic on beaches got less than 70 all week. We all seem to have an opinion on London and Boganpackers.

Everything I could say has been said by someone or other here. So just a short couple of comments:

1. For those saying it doesn't rain much, you've clearly only been here during the 'drought' in which we had hosepipe bans because it only rained 100 days of the year instead of 200 and most of the water supply disappeared out of leaks in the 200 year old pipes that supply most of London. Sorry to pull rank, but I've been here nearly 6 years, it does rain a lot, 60% of days will have rain of some type (including drizzle). That is a lot.

A good point is made that summer weather here is just as good as Sydney but with more daylight. But, as I sit here in a dressing gown off work, with my first winter cold with rain outside and the temperature hovering around 5 degrees in the middle of the day, winter here SUCKS more than you could imagine. But you get used to it.

London over the US/Canada in my view is visa, but its based solely on my choices.

My career would have done better in the US (they actually think my MBA is worthwhile, the Brits ignore 3 years of study) and I wouldn't have had to step backwards career wise for the first couple of years. The income would have been higher with less costs. And the weather much better. Travel would have been less convenient but we would have coped.

But the E-3 visa didn't exist and getting an H1-B visa would have been a bit of a lottery. So we didn't go.

Canada kind of similar, though I spent 3 months there when young. It is just way too cold, I couldn't cope.

But my wife had Italian ancestry so for only £65 we got our passports and got on a plane to the UK. I can work here and for clients all over Europe, piece of cake. Many Aussies I've met here have ancestry, either UK or other Europe. The rest are here on working holiday, something the US doesn't give easily either. So that explains most of the longer term visitors here. If the US gave us something similar we'd all be there.

Continental Europe never interested me. But that's just me, if they had more liberal visa regimes then more of us would go there

As for the tangent on the merits of London vs Sydney this blog has gone on. It's horses for courses but I vote for London. I grew up in Adelaide, so it's better than that, which is not hard really.

Then I spent 6 years in Sydney and whilst I made some great friends and still own a house there, I found it a very clique ridden city where the place you were born and the school you went to were much more an issue than in supposedly class ridden London. Sydney born and bred people probably don't see it as you are the beneficiaries, but those of us from outside found it hard work, more than London has been. It can be very insular and arrogant. But it also has a lot going for it. I just think London pips it for energy and excitement. Perhaps if I was from the North Shore and went to Kings or Joeys I'd probably think different.

Posted by: Pato on October 25, 2007 12:48 AM

I live in the South East of England not far from London, and I hate living here! travelled to Australia on a working holiday last year and absolutley loved the place, would migrate there in a flash (If I could)
I've lived here all my life but hate it, where do I start the weather is awful even in the summer months (Not that we have one) house prices expensive, cost of living is expensive, the people can be rude, there isn't much that I would rave about my own Country.

Posted by: SJ on October 25, 2007 1:06 AM

I'm from Perth. I've lived in Singapore, Manchester and London - still living in London, actually. The weather sucks (better than Manchester though), the people are rude, traffic's a nightmare, the Tubes are like ovens (especially Zone 1 on the Piccadilly and Central lines) and everything's so expensive. Other than that, it's excellent! It's definitely the most lively and happening city I've lived in.

Posted by: Le Protagonista on October 25, 2007 2:12 AM

I couldn't agree more with this article! I finished University and came to Toronto, Canada, because I didn't want to go somewhere that was filled with other Aussies - you can't truly experience something that way.

Torontonians think I'm nuts for being here; and I often use the "Aussies in London" rite of passage to explain why I am not in London - really I think the issue is why we all have this urgent desire to get away from such a beautiful country!

Regardless, I am definitely an advocate of doing a working holiday anywhere but the UK - honestly, not being around other Aussies, as much as I miss it, has forced me to make so many new friends and learn to deal with unusual situations with no one to go to for advice. I think this is the real way to experience an extended stay overseas.

Posted by: Kate on October 25, 2007 2:17 AM

look guys I lived in London for a while and visisted Australia as a tourist. you don't understand how lucky you are to live there.
ok, it's true.. it is far from everything while London is the heart of Europe..but that's not enough. You can't even compare the quality of life.. not just the weather and the food, but the working environment, the smile on peoples face when you enter a shop (which is absolutely absent everywhere in London..especially for an italian person). Sydnsy is not lacking in concerts, pubs, restaurants, museums etc..
think about it

Posted by: italian on October 25, 2007 2:17 AM

At least we go back to read the SMH and stay up to date on what's going on at home! ;-)

Posted by: Alisha on October 25, 2007 2:21 AM

London is the most amazing place to learn about yourself. It's not just the crap weather, the ppl. It's about the career choices (which are heaps better than Sydney), the travelling, the festivals/gigs, the general buzz of a great big city, constantly meeting new ppl and mostly importantly it's about finding yourself (so to speak).

Yes, London can be tough and lonely but that is part of life. You have to learn to move outside of your comfort zone (ie doing things you would not normally do in sydney) and in doing so, you do become a better person.

Sydney is too small for that and you can easily just fall into your comfort zone without having to find new challenges.

I've been here for 5 years and I am still loving it.

It's the mind set you put yourself in that makes it part of the great life experience. If you are constantly negative and comparing London (eg weather) to Sydney, then forget it, you have lost the battle to learn to love London already.

Posted by: cynthia on October 25, 2007 2:21 AM

Dude...if you are going to try to make a contentious debate, as least dont make yourself sound stupid in doing so!

Firstly, as others have pointed-out; 99% of the reason London is the number one destination is the availabilty of work visa's. Add this to the fact that UK employers are used to, and very welcoming of Aussies workers...there is your answer.

You must have a bunch of dumb a*se friends, if most of them did not travel to Europe during their stay in London. Myself and my crew were in Europe at least 2/4 weekends per month during summer.

Finally, I am proud to be Australian, but happy also that I have been living abroad for 9 years now. Lets face it, Australia has "the life"; but come on dude there is more to life than sipping lattes every weekend with the same old yuppie crowd. How boring a life would that be ???

Posted by: Martin on October 25, 2007 2:54 AM

Your article seems to have it a little wrong. The perception that Aussies come to London and work in bars, or that we come here to get pissed every night - and just to travel - is completely wrong.

London in the artistic, music and fashion capital of the world at the moment. Living in London is about grey skies, and an ugly landscape - but you forget about all of that stuff pretty quickly.

The atmosphere here is literally tangible. You can walk down any street in London at any time, and see any type of person you like. You can quite often cut the cultural vibe with a knife - and every day is choc-filled with celebrities who want to be seen hanging out here, partying here and looking cool here. It seems everyone is "Cool" here.

The days of "dossing" in a house of 20 people and earning £4 an hour in some crappy little bar - are finished. Australians are coming to London because it is you can learn new career skills - and essentially make a killing. Most Australians I know here work hard, live in the good parts of London, travel consistently, club in cool clubs and still send plenty of money home.

Finally - London might not have all of the things we love so much in Australia, but Australia doesn't have plenty of the things that most love about London - Real seasons, every band in the world playing here regularly, art gallery after gallery, pubs where you can drink out on the road, bouncers who don't harass you in bars, fashion is respected and cared about, Europe on your doorstep, the pound, new people to meet literally every weekend.

London is not forever. But whilst your young, ambitious and adventurous - it's a great place to explore, learn about yourself, and be whoever you want to be in - and to live life fast.

Posted by: Joe O'Donoghue on October 25, 2007 3:08 AM

I lived in London for a year, and New York for a few, and have to agree with the other posters who have said that if it wasn't for the working visa New York would win full stop (or period as they say here).

New York is a much more exciting city; a more interesting cultural experience; you get 6 months of great weather and then the chance of snow around christmas etc.

Professional salaries in the US are not as good as London (espeacially with the dollar these days), but the city more than makes up for it.

As I pom I've been cheered by the good and balanced views of London and the UK I've found here.
My wife is an Aussie who did the 2 year thing but never went back (married instead). Yes London can be great but like any other city has it's share of not so nice things. However London IS exciting. Loads of gigs 7 days a week pubs everywhere, good work opportunity, easy travel to anywhere etc etc. However I agree with many comments about getting out of London after a while and seeing "Normal" England. Yes tribal Aussies herding around west London can grate on us but most integrate and make the most (those that don't often go back and bad mouth us.. c'est la vie). If you have a chance come... AND do the USA... and Europe. It's not an either or situation. I love Aus too but it does seem quiet once the normal touristy stuff has all been done.. I think waiting 6 years for a rock band to tour and having to see them in the massive entertainment centre would drive me mad.
Come and try it.. and remember it won;t be to everyone tastes .. it's a huge sprawling city after all.
Thanks

Posted by: Paul - a pom on October 25, 2007 3:46 AM

London is the centre of the world! I lived there for 2 wonderful years & came back a new person with an appreciation of how wonderful Australia is. Mind you, I avoided Aussies whilst I was there! And now when I visit I can even watch AFL on TV :-)

Posted by: Anthony Noble on October 25, 2007 3:55 AM

I spent some time in London... pretty much like Sydney, didn't like it. So I moved up to Liverpool, got myself an awesome job and love it here. Bit cold, but it's got a great drinking culture and people are friendlier up north compared to the south!

Posted by: Matt on October 25, 2007 4:01 AM

Take London away from continental Europe and its price falls 75%.

Posted by: SB on October 25, 2007 4:06 AM

I am not of any Anglo ancestry, so do not enjoy the privilige of getting the
visa to work there.
The first time I was in London is this year. It was for a 3 days stop over from
Sao Paulo to Bahrain, just to break the journey and get rid of the jet lag.
The previous year, I only transitted at Heathrow for a couple of hours and caught the
connecting flight back to Bahrain.
What a pity, my friends all said. There is so much about London
to experience, all of them said.

Honestly speaking, I was prejudiced towards the English, before my first visit.
The notoriety of the weather did not help either. All conspired to discourage me
from spending time in London.

I braved myself this year. As soon as I get out of Heathrow catching
the express train from Terminal 4 to Paddington.
I get the feel of the city. It has the same feel as Sydney. (Is it us who
imitated them?), makes London a no brainer city and user friendly for us.
The language, the culture and systems are all similar to those we have back
home.

I feel the buzz and frenetic life, when trapped in the sea of people
going home after work in the tube.

The food is great, Vietnamese Pho in East London.
(No Pho here in the middle east.)
Great Thai, yep they are good but easily cost more than twice
what we pay back at home.

Here are my memories of 3 days:
Lovely old historic buildings.
It was 21:30 but still daylight during summer night, people smoking outside the pub.
Muslimah dressed in full abaya (black cloak, leaving only the slit for the eye).
It is all in London. Exhilarating, vibrant!.
It definitely surprised me. I will be back to discover more.

Posted by: Martin Yau on October 25, 2007 4:07 AM

London? Filthy. We have lived there on and off over 20 years and will leave it to the duds now. The money you earn isn't enough compensation.

Posted by: suzie on October 25, 2007 4:07 AM

Kicking Gaz'z ass on the squash courts at Queen Mary's Sports Centre every Tuesday night, followed by a pint at the Page.

Posted by: The Champ on October 25, 2007 4:10 AM

Great comment posted by Ross.

Can I add one more very important thing. The English girls love sex and are the most liberated in the world. Need I say anymore!

Posted by: John on October 25, 2007 4:29 AM

All these finance and IT gits who are writing in this blog, get a reality check.
Dollar for pound most people earn less in the UK. Dollar for pound most earn 50% less but everyday things (food etc) costs 20% less. So the cost of living not taking into account rent, is 30% more expensive. Dollar for pound, rent for an equivilent house/flat in london is a lot more expensive, so there cancels out any savings in food.
So all you finance and IT gits, you are not the norm. People like school teachers, nurses, police, journalists etc, are all highly trained and respected professionals but earn less than half of what they do in Aus. They must all be living in dodgey estate flats. The minimum wage is £5.52 per hour. Its the uber rich of London who push up the average wage. Yes you might be earning fantastic money when converting pounds to Aussie dollars, but you cant live in 2 places at once. This is a place where you CAN sack your whole staff and rehire them as casuals.
On the up side, the culture/ history is great. A place where the Arts is respected on an equal with sport, unlike Sydney. A place where the pokies dont rule. A place where you realise just how far Aus is from the rest, and how a 219 year history is a drop in the ocean.
Cheers

Posted by: Ynot on October 25, 2007 4:31 AM

I've lived here (London) for 10 years. Coming from Sydney and living in London you always feel privileged. Sydney is one of the world's most physically beautiful cities in the world. London on the other hand is the coolest place in the world right now, it's been that way for at least 10 years and will stay the coolest place for another 10 years at least.

Australian's need to know that there is London then there is the UK, they are different and always have been.

2000 years plays 220 years not a fair comparison. Australia and Australians are regarded fondly by the British. Unfortunately Australians tend not to 'cut it' in the humour stakes. The English are very witty and very polite, which tends to mean that when they engage Australians in friendly chat it's usually not long before the Aussies are reduced to simple barbs about sport and sun tans and claims about 'God's country'.

The most reliable means of meeting and greeting Australians in London is to ask them for a Gin and Tonic!

Posted by: London Aussie on October 25, 2007 5:17 AM

London is awesome! You will leave there (with much sadness - and a tonne of cash) a changed person. Well that's unless you're one of those feral knobs that never left the shepard’s bush walkie.

Posted by: Matt on October 25, 2007 5:36 AM

London has loads of great, characterful pubs to meet and have a laugh with friends. Very different from Sydney, where the protectionist Australian Hotels Association uses its considerable financial resources to ensure limited numbers of licences are granted. Sydney pubs are mostly a charmless disgrace.

Posted by: Antonello on October 25, 2007 6:11 AM

i spent 5 years there and whilst the work and nightlife were good....... u eventually come to the conclusion that the place sucks. pollution, grimy tube trains, grubby streets and congestion.
spending 45 minutes on the tube to get to work, drinking every day because really theres not much else to do of a weekday evening except go home and watch the box.
and almost every time you get a chance to get out of there , it's invariably a long weekend and every one else has the same idea.....
my name for it is mud island- every time you sit on the grass in a park u end up with a wet bum.

Posted by: craig on October 25, 2007 6:23 AM

I cringe every time I hear an Aussie saying how great London is. There are so many of us here only because it's the easiest option.

If you've never lived in HK, Paris, New York, or even Bangkok, of course you'd think London is great.

Truth is the built environment is ugly, 'transport' is not in the vocabulary, infrastructure is third-world, poverty is distressingly prevalent, and it goes completely dead on Sunday after 6PM.

Broaden your horizons and stop being so ignorant. You'll love London if and only if you're in Finance, Law or Media.

Posted by: Dan on October 25, 2007 6:30 AM

Many same sex couples are turning thier backs on Australia & moving to the U.K. where they can have a civil union ceremony (like Elton John & his partner) & have thier relationships properley recognised, and live in a society that fosters equality & tolerance, not the growing discrimination & stigma that the Australian 2004 Same Sex Marriage Ban has created in Australia. Many see no hope in staying here, as even Christian-Kevin supports the Ban to stay in place.
Ironically, the Ban's purpose is to not allow Australia to recognise same sex marriages performed overseas- including those performed in our "mother country" the U.K., ... hey, and I though Howard didn't support us becoming a republic!!!!.

Posted by: D. West on October 25, 2007 6:41 AM

I'm currently back in OZ for 2 weeks, but live in London having moved over there in April. I'll tell you this for free....Sydney is waaaaay overrated. Sure, its a great city but London is just as great, simply in a different way. For everything that Sydney offers, London has something that competes with it and then some. The list is endless but ultimately London wins because it affords you something far more valuable than anything Sydney can...its called ''Opportunity'' .

Opportunity to travel, opportunity to immerse yourself in history , opportunity to experience a plethora of different cultures, a mass of professional opportunities, culinary opportunies,etc etc etc....

I will always come back to Sydney to reitre, but if you want to live as close as possible to the pulse of the world then London is it.

Posted by: Nick W on October 25, 2007 7:26 AM

Why London? Because it is too easy. That's why. The easy path to find your Aussie identity and keep the stereotypes alive. Earning fat pounds with no language barrier is no challenge. London is for those that can't handle or even imagine a challenge.

London is a great place when you get away from whinging loser Aussies. We all know what JAFFA means don't we?

Posted by: Howard Battler on October 25, 2007 7:31 AM

I lived in London for 6 years. You just feel part of the world when you're in London. Australia has nice weather, but not much to do and it takes too long to visit another city let alone another country.

I also got paid twice as much in London as Sydney.

Drugs in London are really cheap and easy to get too.

For a young person it is much more fun to go out than Sydney as there are so many places to go and Sydney only has two types of pub. Bogans and poker machines, or wankers at places like the Establishment.

Posted by: Jebediah Jones on October 25, 2007 7:45 AM

london is a hole
the sooner the ocean engulfs it the better
filthy
overcrowded
and full of miserable poms
england in general has 3 redeming features only
strong currency
they speak english
close to europe

Posted by: dp on October 25, 2007 7:56 AM

I arrived in London just over 2 years ago and have worked hard ever since and am now the COO of a company of 200+ employees and own my first home (which pays for itself because of the high prices for rent in London as you pointed out) with my second house about to be purchased. I have seen a lot of Europe and when I refinance and buy a few more houses I will be able to see the rest of the world and return home to Australia set up for a long time to come while you continue to write your B grade travel blog.

So please don’t categorise all Australians that move to London as bar workers who live in Shepherds Bush, Putney, or Earls Court then you honestly don’t have a clue. We are here because we like to work hard and play hard in a 'one of a kind' city.

Posted by: Chris on October 25, 2007 8:10 AM

I've never met such racist people as "Aussies". Always bad-mouthing all current English without substantial reason. Shallow, and ingrained - disappointing.

Posted by: non-racist on October 25, 2007 8:14 AM

Culturally the English are far more similar to us than anyone bar the Kiwi´s. It´s a way to travel a great distance but still be in semi-familiar surroundings. It´s a safe place to let your hair down and have some fun for a couple of years and with the Visa system not very difficult to arrange. This is also why you see so many poms in Sydney.

The standard of living is much lower (although the wages are higher) and the weather and the infastructure are abysmal but when you are in your twenties you don´t mind doing it rough for a couple of years to have some fun.

I loved my time in London but couldn´t imagine living there again.

Posted by: James on October 25, 2007 8:23 AM

Its a gateway on the other side of the world, they speak english and its not America. Three perfect reasons to go. Its also a gateway to Europe.

I've lived there twice its such a different lifestyle and something everyone should try at least once

The best part is, when I am done with the cold and wet, I can come home to the best country in the world.

Posted by: Jumbles on October 25, 2007 8:33 AM

In three days it will be twenty years since I moved to London. I had planned to stay here for three months but fell in love with the place and could not return "home". During my time here I have managed projects in 26 countries across the globe and travelled a further 14. Although I have been lucky to enjoy working in extremely diverse working cultures, nothing compares to the spectrum of diverse people one encounters living and working in London. An aspect I love about this town is that the concept of national identity becomes redundant. Yes I am from Australia, but in day to day life here it does not feature or matter much. Viewing my Australian friends I now find it strange how much emphasis is placed on national identity within the Australian culture. I enjoy working with Australians as generally they have a great work ethic, however I wonder with the great education available within Australia why one tends to be encounter such a restricted set of views regarding politics, sport and the UK banking system. Although I tend to agree with the Aussies regarding the UK banking system, the lack of diversity in view points is a pity. I still have an Australian accent and some of my Aussie work mates call me a Pom, I prefer to think of myself as a citizen of no specific nationality luckily enough to live in the most vibrant multicultural city on earth.

Posted by: DavidM on October 25, 2007 8:56 AM

London, like New York and Paris is one of the few truly great cities in the world with a fascinating history and amazing buzz. It has an atmosphere and iconic status that nowhere in Australia can ever hope to match. Almost everyone in the world knows about London and it always will be a huge attraction for tourists, despite the increasing numbers of whingeing Aussies, many of whom hail from bland towns and suburbs far more dull than anything you will find in the UK - but that's OK because it's sunny. Of course they will all have you believe they live overlooking the harbour/beach and eat in the finest establishments when at home - far better than admitting to the likely reality for many of dominos pizza, meat pies and the local RSL....

Yes its expensive but most of Europe is. As for food I think many Australians have a VERY inflated idea of how good food is here and are somewhat kidding themselves. London is home to many of the world's greatest chefs. You may not be able to afford them but that's the life of a backpacker - you won't find too many of them in Sydney's fine dining establishments either.

As for weather, this is part of why Sydney is so lacking in culture. The good weather means people rely on it and don't have the imagination to create the sort of establishments you find overseas - even Melbourne does it better.

Another thing you won't find in London is a nation of people obsessed with a country 12,000 miles away and constantly bitching about it!

Posted by: Brian on October 25, 2007 9:13 AM

London - been visiting off on for pleasure and work for the past 12 years and can never get enough of it - great city to discover as not even Lonely Planet or Time Out can summise all to do and see.

Posted by: dakman on October 25, 2007 9:14 AM

I don't understand why people bag London out and keep saying how cold it is. People, we all know the weather is crap. So everyone who goes to London already knows this.....but lots of Aussies keep going! Why?? Because it is a vibrant, cool, modern, happening city. It dwarfs Sydney. I love living in Sydney and would always want to be in Sydney if I had a family, but for a 22-32 yr old who is single, there is no place like it. Especially when you add in the ease of getting work / visas. The bar and clubbing scene in London blows Sydney in to oblivian. I'll give all you sceptics out there the best example I can. Say you are brought up in Adelaide. You love Adelaide. But there is a big drawcard from Sydney just pulling you there. It is more noisy, more expensive, less safe etc etc, but you just NEED to get to Sydney. And when you get there, it is fantastic......despite all its shortfalls compared to Adelaide. Well, growing up in Sydney, London has the exact same draw. If you haven't been....GO! Out of about 50 people I know who have gone, including me, only about 3 or 4 came back before they planned to. And most stay much longer. There must be a reason for that!

Posted by: Chogster on October 25, 2007 9:15 AM

Tom talks up Paris yet you can smell poo and urine on the metro there and parts of that city are very rough indeed.

Nothing works in London eh? Unlike the majestic public transport system in Sydney!

When are we going to get over this pathetic colonial bitterness. It really is embarrassing and should have been left in the 1950s where it belongs. Cultural cringe, you bet!

Posted by: Graham on October 25, 2007 9:17 AM

Why did I go to London:

(a) it was easy to get a visa;
(b) there's so much to do an see;
(c) it's a hop, skip and a jump from the continent;
(d) it's so different from here; and
(d) to earn POUNDS!!

I'm totally in love with London. I've been there twice and I'm fascinated with the history and I never get bored there. If I could live there permanently, I would do it in a heartbeat.

I reckon most of us like going to London because it has something in abundance which we don't have in Australia or are still in the process of working it out: CULTURAL Identity, and HISTORY!

London's like one of the few places in the world where you can see 1000 years of history in once place, and it's all over the city.

And seeing as Australia's only a mere 219 years old we're still in the process of working out what what our cultural identity really is... just look at all that stuff about "Aussie Values" Howard and co. banged on about. I guess that's what draws us to London then.

Posted by: vw on October 25, 2007 9:36 AM

Why do Australians move to London en masse? Probably because finance w*nkers are the type of people who all rush out and buy cufflinks as soon as their pommy boss sports a pair. London being delapidated, squalid, unfriendly but unaccountably snooty for all that, inner-city Sydneysiders probably fit right in.

That chip weighing you down Alex? - Ben

Posted by: Alex on October 25, 2007 9:39 AM

Wenty to London...Hated it! I have travelled all over the world spent 5 years in the U.S and I am still perplexed at just why Australian's love London so much. If it is so great then why do some many Londeners flock to Australia every year??? These people who go on and on about how great London is have probably grown up and lived in the same area all their life and are probably the same people who go out to the same bars every weekend and would never dream of venturing out of "The Shire" or off the "Beaches" or go anywhere but the Castle Hill tavern.... etc!! I know for a fact there are people I know in London now who probably only crossed the Harbour bridge for the first time on their way to the airport!!

The attraction for most people is the freedom, for the first time they are away form parents (a long way) living a fun party filled life without the stress of working a proper job (and if so it is only for a short term so if they are not happy they have the safety of knowing they can leave and go back home). The biggest worry is where to go drinking on the weekend and with who!

No one is going to ever convince me that London is better then Sydney.

Posted by: Brad on October 25, 2007 9:41 AM

To simplify: if you're a bogan, you'll hate it. Like the one I saw disembarking from my jumbo wearing a tshirt, short and thongs - in an icy London February!

That said, England's peasant class has the lowest standard of living in Western Europe, so it's important you either bring plenty of money or have good employment qualifications, otherwise you'll find yourself joining them.

Like anywhere on the globe, the rules apply: the more well mannered, well spoken, well dressed, and interested in people, history and culture that you are, the more that place will be your oyster.

Posted by: James P on October 25, 2007 9:51 AM

"I've never seen an Ethiopian restaurant in Sydney" (Alan @ 7:19)

Lakemba's the place, but Sydney's very low on Ethiopian immigrants, compared with Melbourne, which has many restaurants serving up tasty injara, doro wat, kai wat, tibs & kitfo.

Similarly, to find the best Korean, Vietnamese, Turkish, Persian, Sri Lankan or Lebanese food, to name a few cuisines, the trick is to leave Newtown, Surry Hills, St Leonards & Darlinghurst for a change, and get out into the suburbs where people of those ethnicities actually live & eat, and just like ditching your Lonely Planet when finding eateries overseas, leave your SMH & SBS restaurant guides at home, too.

This has been an off-topic public service announcement.

Posted by: ali on October 25, 2007 9:54 AM

When you're jetting around Europe just be mindful of all the carbon and consider taking a train!

Posted by: Mat on October 25, 2007 10:08 AM

The comments about London are really interesting. So many different perspectives. A lot depends on your outlook on life and reasons for going to London in the first place.Is it for pounds or a change of scenery that people seek...I know the first time I went to England it was early December, to visit my brother who was studying at a college in Oxford. First impressions were not favourable(Central bus station at Heathrow... need I say more?) Couldn't wait to get to Europe - and Brrr!!!!A high of minus 2 one day, standing in the grounds of Blenheim Castle in the driving snow. That cold day remedied by a glass of mulled wine. Seems to somehow go together, sticks in the memory. Hated England at the time,the damp cold and never thought I'd want to live there..but on reflection, having gone and lived there I wouldn't change a thing. ...and it is also about maturing as a person and learning not to stereotype peoples and places..It is Ok to feel homesick from time to time -its natural. Just don't let it eat you up as you soon start to become toxic to the locals when you carp on ad nauseum about Australia and how much better it is...To be fair, London and England has its issues like everwhere but it has just so much 'depth' c.f. new countries..One is not necessarily better than the other, just different.Wherever you live there will be good and bad..Don't lose perspective b/c you are a long time 'worm food'.And whether you like London or not is irrelevant then! I kind of look upon London as like a favourite pair of sneakers/ jeans that are old but comfy and hard to give up because they feel great on.

Posted by: Anthony Gibbons on October 25, 2007 10:19 AM

BONGO,

You can keep London mate. This is kind of liek the "Is melbourne better than sydney?" argument.

There is nothing to argue about. Sydney doesnt keep winning the "world's favourite city" awards for nothing. And given it's a million miles from anywhere, that's saying something.

Like I said, London's good for football.

Posted by: Tim on October 25, 2007 10:25 AM

Aussies go to london because it is everything sydney isnt. sydney wants desperately to be a "world class" city and is in many ways, beautiful environment, people, skyscrapers - but its really just a collection of suburbs. London is a GREAT city in every sense, detail, chaos, history, culture, endlessness. You can lose and find yourself so many times and in so many different ways there. Sydney has a crap CBD, some cool suburbs that fan out from it and beautiful beach side suburbs, but in now way is it a new york or paris or one of the hand full of collection of cities in the world who's vastness isnt down to size or population but some form of collective organic life made from its inhabitants and on this level LONDON is the greatest city. The greatest to complain about,love, hate, be excited by, be excited by leaving - LONDON is the heavyweight champion of the world.

And I dont know which aussies you know ben, but that whole walkabout earls court thing is shunned by every aussie i met there. And there seemed to be a revolving door at heathrow and stanstead taking them to every nook and cranny in europe.

Posted by: JULIAN on October 25, 2007 10:29 AM

I'm heading off to London with my girlfriend next year.

We are not the typical "work in a pub" Aussies, In fact we're both 'ethnics' in Australia anyway.

We are highly skilled and going on the HSMP visa and are mainly going because of the lack of respect and support in this country for people with our skill sets. Sure this might sound like we are complaining, but lets be realistic. Australia is just a drop in the ocean of the world economy, the major players are in Asia, US or Europe.

Honing in on our skills can only be done through an international perspective.

So I'll bring up another point, Why is there such a BRAIN DRAIN happening in this country. Why are successful, smart, skilled people leaving in their droves. I dare say it's not just for the money, but for the opportunity to work to their fullest potential in organisations that value innovation and new age thinking, without been overly micro managed and beaten on when you make small mistakes (this is a fact, as there is a multitude of research proving the case).

Again this is my opinion only. You may choose to agree or disagree.

Posted by: GoingMyself on October 25, 2007 10:33 AM

I'm about to come back from London after 8 months away, and I pretty much am glad to go.

Ben, you're right about the fact many people get over and never go anywhere in Europe after all. People just get seem to get caught up with work and drinking in pubs instead.

Sometimes I've wondered what other Australians do over in London that's so different to their life in Oz. I made a point of going to the theatre and ballet a lot for example, which you can't see as much of in Oz, and when I mentioned it to other friends here, they sounded keen on the idea, but have never bothered.

Jobwise, London's good for some professions (accounting, banking, finance, IT and marketing (if you have experience)) but otherwise it's not so great!

If i could do it again...I'd probably do a 3 month block in between jobs and do a round-the-world instead.

Posted by: Ophir on October 25, 2007 10:36 AM

Ross,

I love these blogs. So easy to get precious people like you all worked-up. So much fun !!

Really, I just love pom-bashing, and you could almost be one. Bad tempered and moody.

haha !

Posted by: Tim on October 25, 2007 10:40 AM

I can't understand all this hype about London. It is expensive, you can not afford to have a decent lifestyle unless you earn at least $AU 80 000. You still end up sharing houses (which are over 30 years old) with 4 to 5 people and end up paying $AU 200 a week! And forget about living anywhere close to the city, not happening, you are looking $AU 750 for a two bedroom appartment! The city is packed and busy 24/7, the tubes are so full you get panic attacks, large amount of pubs/clubs close as early as 1 am....so, I would want to live anywhere except London! Expensive, cold, busy, unfriendly, high crime rate...this is what you get from London! However, for a long weekend to go there for holiday I can highly recommen it, but don't plan to stay there in the long-run....

Posted by: Bastian Graf on October 25, 2007 10:43 AM

I was born in and have lived in London for 68 years it is neither better nor worse than most places.

I have been to Canada, the US, Oz. and NZ. They are great places, BUT THEY ARE DIFFERENT. We acknowledge that Australians do not like the English, as opposed to the Welsh, Scottish & Irish. But in spite of this we like the loud mouthed Aussies and they (you) do get a good welcome here. The weather can be good and it is getting better, (is this a good thing?) At least we have water in our taps.

Please don't come with closed eyes and minds, it is what you make it. Come in our summer. Make allowances, it is an old city but it has a good heart. Come and enjoy. (God knows every other nationality is here.)

Posted by: Brian. on October 25, 2007 10:45 AM

I gotta say the year in London is a chance to escape real life. You live large and you do things you wouldn't do when you are in "real life" mode. London itself is bursting at the seams with music, culture, pubs, sport, travel. It takes a year there to really love it. I want to go back!!

Posted by: Jules on October 25, 2007 10:49 AM

I have just gotten back from the UK. I lived in a place called Abingdon, about 2.5 hours from London by public transport.

The Poms come here because England in general is too fast and too hard a place to live in. The Aussies go to the UK because we want to speed up.

In Australia, career prospects have never been better, but it happens very slowly here compared to the UK. Australia is so easy and so comfortable that things happen at glacial speed. It's almost like we need a place where we can go to see how much we can push ourselves.

In the UK however, it's a lot more dog-eat-dog. You must have your wits about you to survive, especially if you're outside London. You have to deal with situations which you would never deal with in Australia simply because the demographic, the culture, where you live is different. And as BeenThereDoneIt said, it can be very liberating to be that much in charge of your life. It feels like you're learning and moving - that same feeling takes decades in Australia to develop.

In short, the amount of learning and moving you can do in one year in Europe equates to about 5 or 6 here in Australia. The UK is a logical choice because they speak the same language, and the country is eerily familiar.

Posted by: Raymond Montalban on October 25, 2007 11:00 AM

The visa is valid all over the UK - I don't understand why everyone goes to London. We lived in Newcastle in the North and had an awesome time - the city is so full of character with it's own dialect and so close to Scotland as well as ferries to Scandinavia, Spain and Amsterdam and it has an airport.

Posted by: Sal on October 25, 2007 11:02 AM

I did it twenty years ago and i remember a french girl in Thailand asked the same question. Then the reason was you could get work for two years to subsidise you european travel. In theory anyway.

The reality for me was after 16 months i still didn't have any money winter was coming and I decided I was going back to sunny Sydney. Why do people still do it. I aint got a clue especially now its so easy to get working holiday visa in more exciting countries.

Posted by: Chris Kelly on October 25, 2007 11:03 AM

James P

"That said, England's peasant class has the lowest standard of living in Western Europe, so it's important you either bring plenty of money or have good employment qualifications, otherwise you'll find yourself joining them"

Maybe the stupidest comment ive ever heard. for a start i left school at 16 with 2 gcse's and my highest wage in london for deutches bank as a contractor was over 200,000 in aussie money, qualifications and schooling KILL you in aus, in london you can get miles further by yourself.

POVERTY! parts of scotland, the west coast of ireland, inner city french suburbs, large parts of central spain are genuinely third world - scandinavian countries have a very high standard of living, but european immigrants flock to working class lives in the UK a) because they get in and b) because its a higher standard than most of the rest of europe. idiot.

but then to say being well dressed and polite! have you been reading lonely planets guide to bangkok!

Posted by: julian on October 25, 2007 11:06 AM

Still remember my year over there as the best year of my life. I loved it, even when it was bad.
The tube & buses were great. The crazy, rude Tesco checkout chicks were a classic.
The room-temp handpulled ales were great. And the fact anywhere in europe was a short flight away made it a great base to see Europe from.
Earnt a good wage, but spent it all on travelling (that's why I headed over there).
I was glad to get back home, but am looking forward to going back one day.

Posted by: Poida on October 25, 2007 11:09 AM

well i think i am 'well mannered, well spoken, well dressed, and interested in people, history and culture' but london was not my 'oyster'. i def wouldnt say that sydney is better than london, sure - theres way more 'culture' there, and history too, and its much more vibrant, but there is here too, its just different ... Sydney is like a small town that has unique little pockets of culture where you can find them. i couldnt do in london what i do here - study part time, work part time, own a horse, live in a beautiful big share house, and play in a band. instead i would be working full time, getting pissed, having a riding lesson once a month, seeing bands instead of playing in them ... and that would be it. love it for a holiday, but thats it. tho - cheap easyjet flights are a temptation!

Posted by: nikki on October 25, 2007 11:30 AM

People are complaining about Pom-bashing, but I'm seeing more Aussie-bashing (by Aussie-born residents!). Have a bit of pride in your country! Australia's not perfect, and neither is England. Both have their good and bad points, and from what I've seen, most people are being very complimentary towards England. Why is everyone always so down on Australia? (That's a rhetorical question. I don't need to hear the terms 'bogan' and 'not a global city' for the millionth time.) When you get back from England, how's about opening your eyes and getting out and around Sydney? I'll bet most of you haven't bothered to check out what's available in your own backyards. You might be pleasantly surprised. I stayed in London once for about 10 days. I thoroughly enjoyed it and have considered the working holiday but ultimately it would be more sensible for me to stay here and save a house deposit (my work skills wouldn't amount to much in England so I'd end up in a pub or clerical job and I don't think I would come out on top financially!) I'll definitely go back for a longer visit one day though.

Posted by: Kylie on October 25, 2007 11:50 AM

It's comments like Pom, which make Aus a less open-minded place to live in than somewhere like London.

Posted by: Stephen on October 25, 2007 12:11 PM

London has a reputation as being full of Aussies but the fact is Aussies make up a tiny, tiny percentage of the multicultural population there. I remember a piece in the Guardian showing a map of where all the various cultures settled and Aussies didn't even rate a mention. Plenty there but it's a massive, massive city. And what's not to like? It's one of the great cities of the world like New York and Paris. Culture, shopping, travel, history - dig it man. And I found the opposite from your blog. I knew so many Aussies who travelled everywhere but didn't explore London at all. Shame. Great town.

Posted by: Phildo on October 25, 2007 12:15 PM

If you want to spend your summer in a either a park or your winter getting sloshed in a pub while it rains outside, then by all means, London fits the bill.

It's totally the "leave everything behind and party" attitude that makes London attractive, not the place itself.

Posted by: Tim on October 25, 2007 12:18 PM

I am very seriously thinking about moving to London for a few years.

One of my best friends has been there for a couple of years and recently returned home for a visit. At the pub one night he smugly told me of how much damage he'd managed to do to his lower north shore mortgage with 2 years on a London salary. He'll have the damned harbourview apartment paid off by his 30th birthday and he's not doing it tough either...still manages a long weekend 'on the continent' once a month and 6 weeks in the Greek Islands every summer.

So, I've applied for my ancestry visa and am lining up appointments with recruiters and will gladly suffer the weather and the food for a few years if it means I can knock an extra 75K a year off my mortgage and make headlong for an early retirement.

Posted by: Sarah on October 25, 2007 12:25 PM

The weather's not that bad. Give me a balmy summer anyday, rather than 45-50c in the shade. Cold, rainy winters? What a great excuse to stay inside and drink REAL Ale. I'm an ocker but take me back any day!!

Posted by: bevan on October 25, 2007 12:32 PM

I haven't done the live in London thing but most of my friends have, and they have all loved it. It seems to me that people from the same background, who find themselves somewhere foreign, end up gelling quickly with one another. This makes a perfect pot to collect great new friends in a short period of time. Something that is much harder to do when moving to another Australian City. Generally these are friends that last a life time, long after old London has left their minds.

Posted by: David on October 25, 2007 12:39 PM

From a visa perspective it's easier to go to London than the US.
It's also a hop, skip and a jump to the rest of Europe, which costs practically nothing to get to (if you're earning pounds).
And not everyone works in a bar...in fact some jobs are offering 3 times the wage they are in Sydney, which allows you to live in a decent flat, to travel and save pounds...which when converted is worth a lot in aussie dollars.
Plus life is not all about the weather and your career...it's an experience...often a life changing one, and worth more than dollars!!!
Oh and PS I lived there for 3 years, rarely hung out with australians but rather other Englishmen and Europeans, and travelled a lot!
It's up to you to make the most of what there is to offer in London!

Posted by: EJ on October 25, 2007 12:41 PM

I'm from Northern Europe (Copenhagen) and have lived in 3 countries. I absolutely love Australia and could not think of anywhere better to bring up a family.

I live the the country but love going to Sydney or Melbourne for the week-ends. There is so much to do there.

My boys have grown up to love sport and the outdoors. There is something nice and innocent about Aussie kids that you don't find in Europe.

That said, Europe is great for young people - not just London.

Posted by: Nita on October 25, 2007 12:41 PM

Ive just come back from London to Sydney and I'll tell you why people go over there:

Passion - Remember passion, when Someone in Australia actually cared about anything at all other than house prices? English people have a genuine passion and are proud of their history, lives and future

Travel - Sorry folks, Australia really is the ar se end of the world. Deal with it.

Lifestyle - So the weathers bad over there, they make up for it in so many ways, huge festivals, indoor gyms, pubs, camping, trekking, cycling

Culture - If you're from Sydney you know it has none.

Jobs and opportunity - Proper International cities like London are huge financial powerhouses with amazing opportunities you cant get at home

Posted by: davie on October 25, 2007 12:51 PM

I left oz 9 years ago with AUD$7,000 and returned with 3 houses to my name. Does this explain why so many australians are heading for London????

Nope. Heard of Dubai? - Ben

Posted by: tim the secret on October 25, 2007 12:57 PM

The UK is perfect for all those people who supposedly want to travel but don't want to actually challenge themselves with new cultures. They go to London, which might be far away, but ends up being full of more Australians than anyone else, and they never leave their comfort zone. Some might find that boring, but it's better than not traveling at all.

Posted by: Mark on October 25, 2007 1:01 PM

I wonder why some posters on this thread bothered going to London in the first place or whether in fact they have been there (or anywhere else outside Australia) at all.

If you don't like the English, stay at home. They probably wont like you either.

My experience with the English and living in London has been wonderful. Its the most complete city I have been to, much as I love Sydney. It is a city that gets into you and draws you back again and again. The English are great fun and perfectly OK with Australians except those Aussies who don't want to make any effort (and only want to hang with other Aussies) or those idiots who think ignorant pom bashing is the funniest thing on earth.

If you wonder why the English haven't seemd to warm to you maybe a bit less of the Ozzie ozzie ozzie oi oi oi stuff would be a start. Try to go to somewhere other than an Aussie theme pub. And loosen up a bit.

Posted by: Chris on October 25, 2007 1:07 PM

Anyone that thinks Sydney is so beautiful should take a drive along Canterbury or Parramatta Roads....

The award for sounding like the most bitter bogan with attitudes stuck in the 1950 goes to.......Yes, well done Tim! Your ignorance knows no bounds.

The difference in short. The UK (and London in particular) matters to the rest of the world - it is hugely significant in arts, fashion, finance, food, politics, history, music and just about anything else you care to think of.

Australia has many advantages but it will NEVER have the world status of London or the UK. That is what drives the bitter Aussie types mad and gets them so excited over umlimately meaningless sproting victories etc. Those with a bit of sense would not worry about such trivia.

Posted by: David on October 25, 2007 1:09 PM

Generally tends to be two types of Aussies in London:
1) Younger - early 20's (the traditional working holiday visa - I know its changed now) 2 years of p***ing your money up against a wall, working in a pub/nanny and living with 20 other aussies/kiwis/saffa's in acton

2) Older (mid to late 20s) - living in Clapham, career job, own room in flat, hanging out with non-antipodeans, in London for a longer haul

Why each group goes and what they get out is up to them. Neither is better but neither group particularly likes the other.

I spent 6 years in the UK because:
- fell in love with a UK boy
- got a great job that didnt care about my degree/lack of degree that aust. seemed to be concerned about at the time
- loved europe
- loved the culture/design/arts areas
- friends I made from around the world
- springtime and the late nights in summer
- hanging out in parks in summer days
- the supermarkets
- shopping for chlothes
- celebrity spotting

But in the end I have come back to Sydney. I am a believer that you only appreciate what you have if you live somewhere else. Plus I got to bring home said boy as a souveneer.

Posted by: doz on October 25, 2007 1:14 PM

Of course it is the perfect place for Australians to visit - because it offers a history and a culture that even a sun drenched climate can not copmpete with. As for supporting the South Africans whilst holding a British Passport - shame on you!! I will be emailing the consulate....

Posted by: Nigel on October 25, 2007 1:15 PM

Dubai Ben? Hot, devoid of culture, no history and everything is fake. May as well stay in Sydney.

If we had the same visa arrangements with America as we do with the UK I would choose the US over the UK in a minute mainly cause I am more interested in travelling America, Canada, CA and SA than Europe - I think everyone goes to London cause they can do it so easily plus there are heaps of like minded Aussies there it may be expensive but it is really easy to get a job and find friends plus it is an adventure.
I loved London it really was a city where there was always something on and so what if it was cold and rainy there are fantastic pubs, museums and galleries and would visit again but as a tourist there is no way I ever want to live there again the quality of life if you are not earning good money just cannot compare to Oz. And to everyone bagging the food I ate some fantastic cheap meals whilst I was there it is just a matter of trying different places

Posted by: TL on October 25, 2007 1:34 PM

Thank you Chris H-J on October 24, 2007 12:20 PM.

Someone else who also wonders why Australians seem to use England and London interchangably and assume that every one with an English accent comes from London.

Wake-up people, travel to London by all means. It does have a lot to offer. Forget about the lack of sunny days and come prepared. You're not going for the weather. If you wanted sunshine then go to Africa.

And please please please.. expand your minds and get ur sorry asses out of London and away from the millions of other tourists to really see what England is all about.

Head for places like Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, York... Sheffield even. All northern cities with great work opportunities... plus great shopping/ eating/ drinking.

Experience a country that has at least 8 Sydney's (without the beaches!) all within an hours drive of each other.

Because lets face it. Take away the Sun from Sydney and what's it really got to offer - certainly not the beaches and al-fresco dining anymore.

Posted by: Sam on October 25, 2007 1:46 PM

Brock hits it on the head about Aussies needing to relax and not work so hard - It's ironic that Aussie traditionally have a repuation for being easy-going and laid-back, but I am a pom who has been here 10 years, and I noticed straight-away that Aussies take work more seriously. Why, I don't know. Even on a Friday afternoon people are working away as if it's any other day.

Posted by: Lady on October 25, 2007 1:47 PM

Because of the variety of the night life. from Opera in Covent Garden to The Church and many floavours in between.

Dont get that in Sydney or Melbourne.

Simon

Posted by: Simon Farrant on October 25, 2007 1:50 PM

London for Aussies is essentially what Coogee is to poms. Which means a bunch of commoners going overseas to get on it with their own countrymen.... no thanks... on the upside apparently there is some nice skiing, food and wine on a nearby continent...

Commoners? What are you, posting from 1830? - Ben

Posted by: Jim M on October 25, 2007 1:59 PM

david at 1.09pm makes one the unspoken truths about sydney

waterside sydney all the way along is wonder, but about 10 per cent of the city, by far the majority of sydney is inland and almost all inland sydney say 5k from water is absolutely shithouse, not world class in anyway shape or form.

from glebe to parramatta, from concord north, in from coggee, liverpool, cambletown way - most of sydney is a terrible, boring , grey, miserable , ugly place, its just the 10 per cent around the water thats fantastic and where you have a fantastic if expensive life, no way is it less grey or ugly than london cabramatta way.

these, away from the water places are where london excels, as in london its detail for hours in any direction, the CITY doesnt end , just keeps flowing and mutating into new interesting forms, almost to its every edges

in sydney take a 15 k radius segment from the CBD in the general direction of the water and thats all you need to know. the majority of sydney is ugly urban/surban hell.

i live in manly which is wonder ful, wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the water though.

also, the weather in sydney is incredibly over rated, i lived for a few years in perth and the weather was consistently stunning, here its so hit and miss, 20 degrees and raing over the height of summer last year, i remember that - 250 plus blue days my arse, try 125 and i reckon you maybe in the ball park, its no where near as good as people make out.

i love the place by the way!

Posted by: julian on October 25, 2007 2:25 PM

NEVER,

best thing about the whole country is seeing heathrow through the plane window disappear through the overcast, grey, cloudy skies.

Such a pity we have a so-called alliance to whoever the old bag in buckingham palace.

best murder cover up since OJ

Posted by: Andrew on October 25, 2007 2:31 PM

Ah sad, bigoted little Tim. I said that you sounded like a knob and I was clearly right. But you knew that already didn't you - obviously you just wanted to add those last couple of posts so that everyone else knows it too.

Posted by: Ross on October 25, 2007 2:39 PM

Why London? Because it's Europe. Europe is like nothing we have even remotely close by here.

Posted by: Empress Jo on October 25, 2007 3:27 PM

I'm a londoner that now lives in Sydney and can honestly say that I miss London every day.

Sydneys got a wannabee attitude and its inhabitants are very clicky and very judgemental. Every year the same topics and issues are discussed so it has a ground hog day feel about it. The weather isn't anything sydneysiders can be proud of, as they aren't responsible for the weather.

What makes London great is that people there have a carefree attitude to life and aren't fussed at where they stand in the world. Sydney siders need to be born in the right post code, go to the right schools so all you get at the end of the day is a culture dominated by pretentious wankers. London has many pretentious wankers but at least they come in many different shapes sizes and colours.

Posted by: japetto on October 25, 2007 3:38 PM

Sydney looks down on the rest of Australia. Most sydneysiders don't go west of Glebe to see their own city ( yes folks that includes the western suburbs ) let alone see their own country. As for their nieghbours Asia, Australia just sees them as an irritant. Then how wonderfully lovely that there is a place 12,000 miles away that is infinately better than Sydney (in most categories) who Sydneysiders get so defensive and insecure about. Poetic justice!

Posted by: jake on October 25, 2007 3:50 PM

Give up Tim, I think Ross is winning about 3-0 so far.

He's made some reasonable points whereas you're trolling (badly) and making yourself look like a tool.

Posted by: Dave on October 25, 2007 4:14 PM

Japetto, why is a predominance of pretentious wankers better when the wankers come in a variety of colours, shapes and sizes? Is your wanker tolerance subject to a diversity clause? Is an Indian wanker less annoying than an Hispanic one, or are the Sydney sort really the worst?

Ben: That's no chip mate. I think "a chip on the shoulder" implies an element of jealousy. I live in inner-city Sydney and I'm just calling it like it is! Plus, I can't afford any of those nice cufflinks, and have to make do with nasty, polyurethane buttons.

I can't even afford those. - Ben

Posted by: Alex on October 25, 2007 4:37 PM

The world of Kensington smug couples, insipid pasty skinny blokes called Nigel, briget jones's (look at me i have a faboulous life and tons of mates on face book), aussies trying to be down with thhe black people making tools of themselves on balconies during notting hill, being cramed on the tube telling yourself to 'enjoy the buzz and vibe' traffic cameras everywhere, trying to get a drink past 11.30 and being told its a 24 hour capital, spending nealy all you wages on accomodation and travel, paying over the top prices for food no better than a pitt st food mall, badly dressed londoners (fashion capital?), rats in lambeth and hackney, sunning yourself in crowded parks in 20c, fines, charges, overpaid smug foreigners, half filled gigs becuase there is so much choice'. its a great place, but it ain't disneyland

Posted by: bob on October 25, 2007 4:48 PM

I grew up in London, well from age 2 til 12. I was born here. Then, at 23 after uni, when the entire class was heading off out on QF1, I thought "Well, London holds no real mystery for me, think I'll stay here." I travelled round NSW and Australia working for an Aboriginal corporation and did other things.

Then, late 20's, when it might have been time to go back for a bit, I was in a tricky relationship where leaving for the Uk might just have got me killed. I had to be patient and careful and let that relationship end in the fullness of time. By then I was 30 and soon after, married to a man who has a real dislike of London, based on the fact that his former girlfiend went there to work and never came back.

Now - I have a little girl. I want her to live in London just for a few years, and so do I. I really want to do it so badly and hubby's refusal to consider it is a problem of sorts. There are certainly many downsides to the place but the variety is what I crave. Australia simply cannot provide all my needs.

Posted by: jd on October 25, 2007 4:54 PM

David,

Like Ross, you are great entertainment. I love you guys. Gettin all teary and upset over a harmless blog.

PS Why dont you live in London ? Oz would be better for it.

Posted by: Tim on October 25, 2007 5:01 PM

Ross,

You and Dave should get a room... and a life too. Haven't you got better things to get so defensive about ? Sad.

Posted by: Tim on October 25, 2007 5:09 PM

Ross and Davo,

I'm not interested in raising any good points really, just p*ssing precious people like you off. And hasn't it worked a treat !!

I now live in Scandinavia but lived in Sydney for 7 years and missing it. One thing I do not miss though is the Australian obsession with comparing everything. The question in this blog is "Why are we obsessed with London" but - as always - it has pretty quickly been turned in to a competition between Sydney and London. Just accept that cities/people are different. It is not about one being bad and the other being good. You can actually like both. It's allowed. Diversity is good. Wouldn't it be boring if everywhere was the same.

Posted by: Diversity on October 25, 2007 7:03 PM

Australians in the Uk are generaly treated pretty well and don't have to put up with the routine insults and crap about how rubbish their country of origin is compared to where they are now, which is what the English in Aus are constantly subjected to because of the idiotic cultural cringe. The insults on this thread don't surpise me. Give me Kiwis and Canadians over you idiots any day of the week. I spent 2 years in Sydney and couldn't wait to get back to England. As for Sydney being "beautiful" - depends which part. Drive out west and it's not beautiful by any stretch of the imagination. There are large parts of the English countryside that are far more beautiful than anything I saw in Aus.

Posted by: Ian on October 25, 2007 7:46 PM

To all the people who are complaining that there are too many Aussies in London (and even one that avoided London completely for that reason alone), I pity you.

Yes, there are plenty of Aussies over here, but be realistic, we're still a tiny minority overall. Nobody is forcing you to hang out in Aussie areas/pubs and make friends with every Aussie you meet. I've been here for over 2 years and it has been very easy to 'avoid' making friends with Aussies - not something I've done on purpose but just because, realistically, the vast majority of people you meet are NOT Australian. In fact, the only Aussies I talk to are ones that I already knew from back home. It really isn't that difficult. Just live your normal life and aside from hearing a few Aussies on the street every now and again (which can be quite comforting), you're really in no danger of having your experience 'ruined' by your fellow countrymen.

Posted by: TJ on October 25, 2007 8:01 PM

To all those peple who are offended by the word POM or POMMY etc. I had never heard the expression 'Antipodean' untill i arrived in pommy land. I dont know wich is more offensive, calling an englishman a pom or an australian antipodean, ie" beneath our feet". That sounds like a relic of 19th century patronising to me. Im not 'beneth you'. So I wont call you a 'pom' if you dont describe me as being 'beneath your feet'.

Does that sound fair???

Posted by: Ynot on October 25, 2007 8:04 PM

before i even got to the end of the article i knew it wasn't written by someone who had ever lived in london.

you've completely missed the point on just about every paragraph....

those reading this blog from london will i'm sure share my concerns.

Posted by: peccahead on October 25, 2007 8:14 PM

Not everyone who moves here works behind a bar earning shitty money and working crap hours.

I moved to London two years ago on a Working holiday visa. I am now on a Highly skilled migrant visa and plan on staying for at least another 3 years.

I started contracting as I couldnt get a permanent job there on that visa. But the money I earned on IT contracts far outweighed any perks of being a permanent employee.

At the moment, I am on £300 a day as a Test Analyst working in investment companies in London. I dont think I can ever earn that kind of money back home in Sydney.

I travel at least once a month to various places around Europe, either for just the weekend or a week long trip. I spend a lot of my money either eating out in London's many restaurants, drinking many expensive bottles of french wine and spending lots of money buying clothes at Topshop. ;-)

I have friends here who come just to earn money... some on rates like $500 a DAY. They are currently saving up for a deposit to buy a house back in Sydney. :-0

Posted by: Leeda on October 25, 2007 8:41 PM

BEEN TO LONDON IN 1973 AND WHAT A DISAPOITMENT IT WAS.NO DESIRE TO GO BACK. PARIS IS MORE EXCITING, BEEEN THERE 6X TIMES AND DESIRE TO GO BACK IS STILL THERE. PARIS IS LIKE MY MISTRESS. JAN

Posted by: JAN SALZMANN on October 25, 2007 8:42 PM

I have been here for 2 years. I dont work in a bar, I work in a professional position with oppurtunities that i could not have got in Oz. I don't live with 20 South Africans, and have managed to see a fair bit more of the world than Putney in my time here. I came for the reason most others have, I get to experience life in another country (ok its not like i live in Peru but its still different), Travel easily to Europe (no weekends in prague from Sydney) whilst at the same time saving a bit of money and gaining professional oppurtunities not so widely available at home. Sure the weathers not the best sometimes, but its not all bad, Hot and Humid summers in Central Qld are not much either....

Posted by: Dee on October 25, 2007 8:48 PM

London is the greatest city in the world and has no equal. It's where all the world wants to come to. It's where anything and everything happens, it offers the best of all the world has to offer and it's massive! I've lived in London for 22 years, I've made my fortune here and I wouldn't live anywhere else. I did live in Sydney for a while and I couldn't wait to leave! Nothing going on there, poor food, no transport system and it's too hot! No, give me London any day!

Posted by: bjm on October 25, 2007 9:06 PM

I currently live in London (view SMH online each day) and for me and my fiance, we decided on London mainly for 2 reasons. 1 - close to Europe and 2 - The work opportunities. We have both found that companies and people within said companies are much more willing to give you excellent career opportunities than back home. I've been in a variety of admin assistant my whole life, but when I rocked up here, I've been offerend way more ££/$$ than what I would be earning back home in roles that I have NO experience in, that are a definite step up the career ladder for me. Granted the weather is crap, but that's why you fly to Spain for the weekend and the food is bad, but how many backpackers are eating out every night??? I'm not a backpacker, I'm a traveller, (yes there is a difference) and I certainly don't eat out every night, and you will find some places that serve good food. I love it here and although we're heading home eventually, we are loving our time here and hope bring plenty of £££'s home with us!!

Posted by: Samantha on October 25, 2007 10:09 PM

Regarding safety in UK versus USA: there is a much greater chance of being intimidated/frightened/pushed around by 18-45 year old men with alcohol in their systems on any given night in the UK. The USA does not have a yob culture or a societal problem with binge drinking the way the UK does. Violent crime is of course a problem in the USA, but the average person is never exposed to it. On the other hand in the UK ANY drunk middle class guy might punch your teeth out if you look at him or his horsey girlfriend the wrong way.

Posted by: Andrew on October 26, 2007 4:09 AM

Wow, some major chips on shoulders, self-loathing, anti-English and anti-Aussie racism, arrogance, elitism, reverse elitism and smugness in this blog this week. Great stuff as usual Ben.

In general, I would suggest that we can agree on the following:

1. More Aussies go to London than anywhere else except maybe Bali and NZ primarily because it is easier to get a visa

2. Some people like places because they are very different from what they grew up with (Aussies in London, Poms in Sydney) whereas others prefer to stick with what they know. Neither view point is wrong but it means we will never agree.

3. London sucks. London is great

4. Sydney sucks. Sydney is great

5. Both cities has significant positives and negatives, the choice is whatever floats your boat.

Some misconceptions I want to clear up:

1. London is not swamped with Aussies. You have to actively seek them out or pick very specific places to live. Acton, Fulham, Clapham, Putney and other south western hot spots. Outside of that we are almost invisible. Latest survey in the papers here has less than 400,000 Aussies in the entire UK, with around 250,000 in London, most of those been here less than 2 years (working holiday visa types). In a city of 7 million in a country of 65 million, that is seriously not a lot. 3.5% of London and 0.6% of the UK. There are more Somalis, Kenyans, Ugandans, Polish, Baltics, French etc than Aussies, let alone Pakistanis, Indians and those from the Caribbean.

If you are sick of putting up with Aussies then just move to the 97.5% of London they don't live.

2. Don't come here to make a truck load of money to pay off your mortgage. The only way to do that is to work your guts off, live in a tiny place and not spend any money on travel or fun. Guess what? You can do that at home without having to pay for the airfare. This city sucks if you can't travel and party.

3. Aussies do not have a bad image here. Only the cultural cringers worry about the minority bogan-packers. Another recent newspaper article showed we had the lowest unemployment (l.5%), lowest dependence on benefits (3%), lowest use of social housing (

Now Ben, can we stay off the London thing for 6 weeks or so. I'm repeating myself and most of the comments I'm reading are just going over old ground. How about great destinations for Christmas, it's topical. Cheers

Posted by: Pato on October 26, 2007 5:37 AM

Actually nowadays most of the people working behind bars are Eastern Europeans... where have all the aussies gone?!

Posted by: b0b on October 26, 2007 1:11 PM

Tim is trying to make out he's here for the wind up yet HE is the one responding to every individual poster who has disagreed with him. Methinks Tim is the one getting rather wound up here - probably because he is being intellectually thrashed on each and every occasion. You would think someone like that would be used to it by now!

Posted by: Brian on October 26, 2007 3:00 PM

I intend on doing the WH over there in a year's time, with a view on assessing the balance over crappy weather + crazy high costs of living versus 3 times what I get paid in my NSW health job, before deciding on whether to stay on.

The main attraction is definitely the music, with proximity to Europe and the new and improved Eurostar a close second. 3 hours on the train from Sydney gets me to Newcastle. Paris. Newcastle. Paris. Newcastle. Tough decision there.

Posted by: Hinn on October 26, 2007 4:05 PM

i spent my gap year between school and uni in the UK but only spent about 3 weeks in London. I can't wait to get back there! The moment i finish my degree i'll be there. How can you want to stay in the one place your whole life? (i.e Sydney) I felt so alive over there there is an endless amount of things to do and explore, whereas here i always feel like i'm wasting my life away!
Sydney is amazing from age 0-18 and then from 40+. But while you're a young adult you can't beat London.

Posted by: lilly on October 26, 2007 5:03 PM

'BEEN TO LONDON IN 1973 AND WHAT A DISAPOITMENT IT WAS.NO DESIRE TO GO BACK. PARIS IS MORE EXCITING, BEEEN THERE 6X TIMES...'

Posted by: JAN SALZMANN on October 25, 2007 8:42 PM

Jan, that was 34 years ago (before I was born). Things have changed an awful lot since I first travelled to London 14 years ago, so I imagine the changes over 34 years have been enormous. Each to his or her own, but I think you need to get out a bit more. Plus you need to turn your caps lock off...

Posted by: AH on October 26, 2007 6:42 PM

I personally don't see the facination with London, I have friends who are there at the moment and all they do is get drunk with Australians at the Australian pub all the time?!? I cannot see how that is logical!?! Why dont they just do that in OZ?

but it is each to their own - some people just like to get drunk with Aussies!

So what I did was choose the slightly different option of doing a working holiday in Italy, which is fantastic and let me tell you its not easy to learn the language, but I will eventually.

I do have plans to go to london/uk though afer my one year in italy for career/money reasons - I can get some serious money behind me for the future if I can get the job that I want

Posted by: Laney on October 27, 2007 2:43 AM

One thing I want to take issue with, and perhaps I'm being a tad provocative for no real reason other than to see the reaction I get, is the comment that Aussies should get away from London and see the rest of the UK.

Now I agree that not spending all your time at She Bu and the Redback is to be recommended and there is merit in visiting the rest of the island, though I'd suggest travelling the continent is a more value for money and interesting goal.

However, I've either worked in or visited Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Sheffield, Nottingham, Bath, Bristol, Portsmouth, Bournemouth, Newcastle and York.

Only Bath (no more than a day), Nottingham (2 days tops) and Edinburgh (at best a week) are worth the visit. The rest are crap. And a few of them have to be top contender for where the world's anus is located.

Just like 90% of Australia, 90% of the UK is boring as hell. Decaying industrial cities and English versions of Mildura and Wagga are not worth the visit.

As for living /working anywhere else but London in the UK? You might as well have stayed in Oz. No city in the UK apart from London and Birmingham are bigger than Adelaide (1m) and most have even less culture and excitement than that wasteland that is tragically my home town.

Apart from maybe Edinburgh, the rest of these cities / glorified towns are insular and in decline as the population drifts to London and overseas or is replaced by Polish and illegal Chinese farm workers.

If you choose to come here and live in 'Little Britain' you might as well have stayed home as you've chosen the low risk, safe, white middle class boring option that you probably grew up in in the first place. I would guess the UK outside London is just like growing up in 'The Shire' but I never had the pleasure.

Posted by: Pato on October 28, 2007 3:08 PM

Agree with quite a lot of the comments on this blog. I've lived in London for just over 5 years now (have only JUST moved to Fulham, after experiencing what north and east London had to offer!). I love the place, but, as I'm sure most people here would agree, have days where I hate it. Sometimes the pace is just too much, along with the pollution, cost, weather (yes it's a cliche, but it does get me down at times) among other things. That said, I do remember Sydney getting me down at times as well for vastly different reasons....

I think it's much harder to make new friends in Sydney. I have to agree with those who say it is an immensely cliquey place, people seem to just hang out with the same friends from school/work/university, drawing on my own experiences (and yes I know things might be different for other people) I found it was much harder to get out and meet new people in Sydney than it has been in London. London just seems to be an easier place to integrate, the english are very friendly and are willing to give people a chance. People in Sydney just seem to be obsessed with getting on the property ladder, buying that new car/plasma tv/house extension. It just feels like there is a real 'keeping up with the Joneses' mentality in Sydney nowadays, I don't feel that here, people are more accepting.

It sounds like I'm trying to compare the two cities - that's not the intention - but I think it's impossible, both are very different (one is huge with twice as many people for a start), and it's inhabitants are quite different as well. I miss Sydney dearly, but often wonder if it's just my family and friends that I miss, if they all moved away, would I miss it that much (I grew up out west, before I left it was a mission to find somewhere that wasn't in a plaza that served coffee!!). Anyway digressing from the blog a bit here, for me personally, I came to London to use as a base for travelling and to experience life in another country for a while, in my time here, I've been lucky enough to travel, earn some pounds and do things that I could not do at home (was lucky enough to be at the Cannes Film Festival earlier this year with work!). You either like it, or you don't. If you don't, the easiest way to fix that is to get yourself to Heathrow Terminal 4... the only thing worse than a whinging pom is a whinging aussie and there are plenty 'em here!!!

The reasons why London is great/sucks have been stated many times in the posts above, it takes time to come to grips with the place but it's definitely worth it if you give it a chance. It's easy to look at home through the proverbial rose coloured glasses and recall all that is good about it, but I think a healthy dose of reality is also in order, as there is a reason why you leave in the first place. That said, I hope to return to the sunny shores of Oz in the next year or two (hopefully my kiwi boy will be ready to leave then as well!). London will always be a big part of my life, and unless you've lived here I really don't think you can comment on what's good/bad about it, either way it gets under your skin, only those who have been here and done it (or are doing it) will understand. That's what I reckon anyway!!

Posted by: Debs on October 29, 2007 7:39 AM

Was in NYC for a week and then London for 2, just two weeks ago.

London > NYC in every respect.

Posted by: Traveller Joe on October 30, 2007 8:37 AM

I've loved London and the UK for over 30 years. After an initial stay of 3 years, I've been back 12 times, for periods of between 10 days and 7 weeks. Love it!! Yes it's expensive, budget hotels are the pits, the food is not as fine as here, far too many visitors and tourists leave their manners and graciousness behind when they land at Heathrow, and the English really are not all that keen on Australians as a species sometimes, but I never mind the weather and I adore the galleries, theatres, streetscapes and landscapes. I am not the slightest bit English myself but I have never visited or lived anywhere where I felt so instantly aware, comfortable and at home. For that, I blame a misspent youth reading English novels and travel books and teachers who thank God forcefed me EngLit. I will never get over the uncanny sensation of knowing what I would find around the next corner when I first got myself to Trafalgar and Leicester Squares. I knew these places, their names, these lanes, as if I'd been there a hundred times already! If there is such thing as deja vu, I experience it so many times when I am in London. Love it. Am going back again next year, just for two weeks, but an already keyed up with anticipation!

Posted by: Ana on October 31, 2007 1:45 PM

I'm with Bongo, the food is great as long as you get out of the 'Antipodean' set, which many are reluctant to do... and as for expense, I found Sydney on my last trip home, incredibly expensive by comparison to London given exchange rate... and who says you have to stay in London- there's the rest of the UK of 40 million or so to get to know!

Posted by: chip on October 31, 2007 7:03 PM

Cringe at the Aussies that feel the need to be in backpacking mode when settling in London; they'll get over it quickly after a few months as they look to apply for a HSMV when their Working Holiday visa expires. Truly a multi-cultural place that embraces people from non-English speaking backgrounds and does not blink when you speak a foreign language in public (in a European dialect or otherwise). A remarkable place with lots to see and do - if it is currently or where you will reside, embrace it as though it were your home.

...and that's my two pence

Posted by: Joe on October 31, 2007 7:44 PM

London is hard work. A few friends gave me advice before I moved here. One said, "Don't let that place get to you." The other said, "London will make you figure out who you really are". I didn't understand what they meant at the time, but now I certainly do. I live and work in central London have been here for over 2 yrs now. I have to take a break every 2 months or so, otherwise the stress, pace and pressure of life in this city will definitely do my head in. Europe comes in handy for that :-) And as for the other piece of advice - if you don't come to London with a strong sense of yourself, you have to develop one pretty quickly otherwise you'll get totally swallowed up by the place. London is like a giant amplifier for the rest of your life - here the high's are higher and the lows, well, are beyond awful. But it gets under your skin and as much as I look forward to the day I am ready to leave, I am also scared that nothing else will quite ever measure up (even home, which I miss terribly). Oh, and I came here directly after 3 years in Canada, and six months in the States before that. I highly, highly recommend North America. I'd definitely choose it over the UK in terms of general quality of life and relationships with the locals. The best friends of my life are back in Canada...

Posted by: MissCC on October 31, 2007 9:11 PM

Because Australia is boring and is a place where nothing happens. Australians keep on bragging about the weather and how great Australia is, but the reality is that no one cares, no one knows what Sydney looks like and that Sydney is not more famous than Vancouver. And too far from where things actually do happen.

I'm not even going to mention cultural events, or the proximity of Europe or the US. Who cares about the sun. London is fun, and it's the best city in the world only bettered by NYC for certain things only. Get over yourself Australia, no one cares.

Posted by: Boris J on October 31, 2007 9:13 PM

I think not only is it an escape from reality for a while but it is also a chance to let your hair loose and go nuts.

I currently live in London and have done so for the past 2 years (and I have travelled to many destinations in Europe since being here). I love the lifestyle here as it is always busy but what I've noticed with all the boys from Australia and New Zealand is that a lot of them come cos it's easier to pick up girls. I find the boys tend to go nuts in their first year and towards the end of their second year they begin to settle down and maybe look for a girlfriend - or move back home.

It is different to Australia and though I am also one of those that complained a lot when I first go there I now find it hard to leave - especially when I have been approved for the highly skilled visa that lets me stay 'til 2011...

Posted by: R on November 1, 2007 12:07 AM

I'm in London now with four weeks till I leave and I can't wait to get the bloody hell outta here. The lifestyle sucks as does the weather and food. The only reason i come here is the money and the travel. But last time for me!

Posted by: C Wilson on November 1, 2007 2:32 AM

Career on hold? Nope the opposite.

Plus with much better tax benefits for professionals (especially when contracting, I'm only paying 15% tax), means I'm earning 4 times as much as in Oz.

5 years here, have almost enough to retire when I come home.

Posted by: Brad on November 1, 2007 5:42 AM

Why don't you all stop pretending you hate england and come over to Ireland where you get all the travel & money benefits without having to take the queen's shilling or having to live with 20 million people in one city. Remember we built your country so why not return the favour!

Posted by: Marc on November 1, 2007 5:43 AM

Well firstly, different strokes for different folks.
Grew up in Australia am in love with it and always will be. If you can appreciate Australia for all it's beauty you can sure appreciate London, the UK whatever..If places weren't so different in their own ways where would we be today?

Posted by: Nana on November 1, 2007 8:06 AM

lived in london for 10 years, sydney for the last 5 and careerwise, culture, learning, facilities, music, history, transport, food (yes food, this pacific rim and trendy overpriced otto rubbish is a joke)travel and money, jobs, options and value for money London beats sydney hands down.

we're going back to London soon because we just can't afford to raise 3 kids in Syd and having travelled extensively throughout OZ, I can tell you that rural oz holds no attraction what so ever.

OZ = retirement for us in a few years, but money, career and educationwise Europe is far far better.

btw, Health care is globally fc**ed so no point in saying it's better here or there.

perception is important.

Posted by: placid on November 1, 2007 10:58 AM

I hate London, too many rude people rushing around. Give me a student town in Cornwall any day!

Posted by: Charlie on November 3, 2007 3:54 AM

London rocks, Sydney sleeps.
London is an adult, Sydney is a child.
London is a drug, Sydney is boring.

Nuff sed.

Posted by: James on November 3, 2007 10:55 PM

I don't know about anybody else, but if I knew how to speak Spanish fluently and the income wasn't so low in Spain, I'd be living in Barcelona any day over the UK-London. People are so friendly and welcoming, and this is a city that knows how to party! By the way Spain's weather is similiar to that of Australia's which is a bonus.

Posted by: J on November 7, 2007 5:17 PM

I lived in Switzerland for a couple of years, and all I heard from Aussie travellers living in London was how bad the pay was, how crap the weather was, and that there were too many other Aussies living there. I spent a couple of months there myself, and wholeheartedly agree. There are SO many other great destinations out there. London is for wimps who don't know how to "travel". Nice and safe...

Posted by: Gregor on November 8, 2007 1:53 PM

As an Englishman who has plenty Aussie mates over here in London I would have to say in all honesty one of the main reasons there are so many Aussies over here has to be the price of drugs - they are just so cheap in comparison to Australia and so much more plentiful. The clubs are fully of Aussies. I could be wrong, but I don't think that many people really go to the effort of wearing big black contact lenses to give the impression they have dilated pupils with matching Cheshire cat grins…

Posted by: Fergus on November 8, 2007 10:17 PM

Lived in London for 7 years, been in Sydney since march - love both and fact is they are totally different cities as a result of their history, location, and population.

London is a rush, but its a slow burn and you have to seek it out, but when you find it it will be original and fresh to death.

The people are one of the best things about London, and struggle with this claim Londoners are miserable and rude - they actually very much enjoy a laugh and events like Notting Hill show that they like a bit of a knees up when possible - music as a central part of life is something I miss in Sydney, actually.

As for London v NYC - New York is a fantastic city, but I honestly dont think there is a vast difference between the two with regards to cultural offering, and to be honest New York lacks the recent European immigrant thing that London possesses.

As for infrastructure, i just wasted an hour walking around Sydney as there is no tube and the train wont take me where I need to go, and the buses are log jammed - sun was shining though! Tube is very expensive though, hopefully this will be addressed after next mayoral election.

If you're an Aussie dreaming of NYC over London, dont think the subway is better than the tube (i had attempted robbery on subway last year - never on tube), or that there is no vice, or filth/litter, or drunkeness - you would be mistaken.

Finally, Its not where you're from, its where you're at baby.

Posted by: Mat on November 14, 2007 12:51 PM

I cant say i was lucky enough to live in London, but i did visit it on a number of occassions, and had previously been there before. I love London, i def know what you mean about getting caught up in the city. And discovering new places, new pubs, listening to new bands, meeting new people.

HOwever, i dont like meeting aussies over there, the ones you tend to meet, give Aussies a bad name (i know im generalising) but some tend to put on an even occa accent, refuse to rug up in winter, instead wearing there thongs and boardies with a jumper everywhere they go.
The best thing about living in England was the travelling, where else can u get 1 pound flights to a good number of countries in Europe? Shit yeh! Thanks to my gap year i saw around 20 countries (and thanks to the english school systems endless holidays)

Posted by: Taylor on November 15, 2007 10:44 AM

I think you need to do some more reading up on the place you write about, or for something different actually go to a place you write about. If you have been to London, you clearly chose to sit on your backside and do nothing for yourself. Perhaps it's time you looked at another proffession!

Posted by: Bondy on November 16, 2007 7:11 AM

I don't think America and Canada can compare with the history and culture of England, and certainly Europe.

I'm an Australian residing in Holland for 6 months, and just before I head home, I plan to stay in London for a couple of weeks.

I visited London for the first time after being here for 2 months, and although I'd never been there before, the place instantly felt familiar - the shops, houses, and people on the streets all reminded me of home.

Posted by: Julia on November 29, 2007 1:47 PM

No point disrespecting London on weather grounds. It's rubbish in Sydney. Difference is, poms know the weather is often poor in London. Australians seem to think it's great in Sydney. Well, it's no better than London. Look out the window.

Posted by: Fermat on December 19, 2007 2:57 PM

Personally, I've lost my bestfriend to London. And it bugs me something chronic.
I hate the mentality that these people have (not my bestfriend, but other friends that are also there) The mentality that the UK is so hip and the place to be. Its true, they go there because its so close to Europe, yet most of them have been there nearly 2 years and only left once or twice for the weekend.

The way I see it is, be thankful you live in a country that is so beautiful and go and explore your own backyard before ditching it for a cold and gray place like London. And yes, I was in London last year for a week to unwind from a 3 month European hiatus. The first time we got in to London we were passing by to go to Edinburgh and I got grilled by immigration. I was so sick of the questioning by the end of it that I just wanted to say 'stuff your country, I dont even like it I'm only here because I have to be'

Holidays there, fine..living there, no thanks.

Silly poms.

Posted by: Over It on January 16, 2008 9:51 PM

I just fly in and out of London but it's a great place to get cheap flights to Europe. I lived in the Channel islands for 3 years and I think Aussies should make a trip there.

Posted by: Judy on January 17, 2008 1:13 AM

London is wicked! This article makes me laugh because I am an Aussie living in Putney with 15 other Aussies or South Africans, absolutely loving it!! Yes, the food and weather are rubbish. I've never met a ruder of people than the rush hour millions squeezed into the underground, but what can I say.... I still love London!!

There is always something on or there are always cheap flights when you need to escape the hustle and bustle for a weekend.

I was weary about coming here initially, but after not long at all I knew it was the best decision I've ever made!!