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6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

I counted it out this morning, so far this year only, I have him at #42 - at best. The blindness of those that claim he's top 20 or #7 in the MVP race? Manifest blindness. Heck, you called Gortat a bit above an average Center....

Because Gortat is? Dwight, Bynum, Bosh, KG, Duncan, Gasol, Chandler, Horford, Al Jeff are better for sure. That puts him at best #10, and Brook/Cousins/Noah/Monroe/Hibbert/Varejao in that same tire so I'd put him around 12th/13th. That is a bit above average.

And the general consensus of the country is that Rondo is easily a top 20 player, so I'm not going to bother arguing with you on something that is pretty much a fact.

Please by all means demonstrate what mediocre PG I have advocated Rondo be traded for in the past? And then demonstrate it was wrong given what was known to be true then. Good luck. CP3? Remember how many people here wouldn't deal Rondo for CP3 - even with an extension? Seriously, are you kidding me? Curry? I said only with a clean bill of health on his feet/ankles (and also supported by others here).

You wanted to trade him for Toronto's draft pick and some crap or something like that.

KG is a leader, and the leader of this team since the day he came. He's also a top 15 all time player and HOF'er. He's been known to do stupid things, but they are far out weighed by his other behavior as a leader and as a player. Comparing Rondo to KG is pathetic.

PP was given the C before KG got here. He's not a bad leader and in conjunction with KG they had a very nice run for a time, but make no mistake KG was the guy here in this era.[/QUOTE]

You fail to miss the point, both of them have had their share of incidents, that you claim make Rondo seem "inmature", yet they are allowed to do it for some reason and Rondo can't.

and Rondo is better than Deron at this point, he still isn't the same player he was with Sloan.

And the general consensus of the country is that Rondo is easily a top 20 player, so I'm not going to bother arguing with you on something that is pretty much a fact.

Opinions are facts? Since when? He's simply not top 20 and the facts are manifest.

You wanted to trade him for Toronto's draft pick and some crap or something like that.

Really? How did the salaries match up? Proof is required.

You fail to miss the point, both of them have had their share of incidents, that you claim make Rondo seem "inmature", yet they are allowed to do it for some reason and Rondo can't.

You miss the point that neither of them was or is a shrill *****, unable to lead on the floor or in the locker room. Neither one has been called uncoachable by the only 3 coaches they had since HS either. Nor a GM that labeled them the same way. Both of them were consistent players that are walking into the HOF, Rondo is the poster child for erratic play and behavior, unfit to lead.

and Rondo is better than Deron at this point, he still isn't the same player he was with Sloan.

It's close, but I'll take Deron.

6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

Bags practices selective memory. Any time Rondo so much as sneezes he pulls out his list of" transgressions" real and percieved, but others get a pass.

When was the last time he brought up the Buzz Club incident in connection with Pierce? Or Pierce's headbutt of James Jones and subsequent technical for taunting Wade in 2011 playoffs? Bag's doesn't bring up Pierce throwing an object into the stands and getting fined for it, does he? Or any of the other "incidents" of Pierce's career? Why doesn't bags bring these up in every thread Pierce is mentioned in?

When I made a comparsion between Rondo and Ainge, did Bags mention Danny being fined for tossing the towel while Hickson was attempting a foul shot?

Garnett gets fined for not meeting with the media (sore loser?), but does Bags bring that up or how it reflects poorly on Garnett, the team and the franchise? Garnett gets suspended for a playoff game for throwing an elbow, but do we hear about that impacting his ability to lead or how it was "immature" or irresponsible in every thread that KG is mentioned in??

It is the total lack of forgiveness he has for Rondo in comparison to other players that sets this apart. It is because Bags does not apply the same standard across the board that we know a bias exists against Rondo. What we don't know is why? We also know that due to a complete lack of objectivity in regards to Rondo, it is best to ignore Bags on the subject of Rondo.

Last edited by Opalmerr; 12-01-2012 at 12:29 PM.

Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

Bags practices selective memory. Any time Rondo so much as sneezes he pulls out his list of" transgressions" real and percieved, but others get a pass.

When was the last time he brought up the Buzz Club incident in connection with Pierce? Or Pierce's headbutt of James Jones and subsequent technical for taunting Wade in 2011 playoffs? Bag's doesn't bring up Pierce throwing an object into the stands and getting fined for it, does he? Or any of the other "incidents" of Pierce's career? Why doesn't bags bring these up in every thread Pierce is mentioned in?

When I made a comparsion between Rondo and Ainge, did Bags mention Danny being fined for tossing the towel while Hickson was attempting a foul shot?

Garnett gets fined for not meeting with the media (sore loser?), but does Bags bring that up or how it reflects poorly on Garnett, the team and the franchise? Garnett gets suspended for a playoff game for throwing an elbow, but do we hear about that impacting his ability to lead or how it was "immature" or irresponsible in every thread that KG is mentioned in??

It is the total lack of forgiveness he has for Rondo in comparison to other players that sets this apart. It is because Bags does not apply the same standard across the board that we know a bias exists against Rondo. What we don't know is why? We also know that due to a complete lack of objectivity in regards to Rondo, it is best to ignore Bags on the subject of Rondo.

Cool story.

Buzz Club? Over 12 years ago. And jeez he got stabbed, he didn't do the stabbing... what a ridiculous comparison - and he was what? 22 years old? Rondo will be 27 in 2 months and he's been suspended 5 games in the past 9 months.

You must have a great memory or spent a lot of time looking things up. DA and Hickson? Stupid move. How many times has he done that the past 10 years?

Apologist.

Rondo has a longer history of **** ups than any of the guys you have mentioned when looking at it as instances/years.

In addition, nobody else right now is being tested out as leader. Since KG got here we've been pretty solid with leaders. Those days are almost over. Who will lead this team? Everybody and everything seems to point at Rondo. However, it's an accident of place and time, not based on his accomplishments and his persona. I am concerned about the near and long term future of my team. I see Rondo as unqualified to succeed at the job.

I'm sure I'd be less strident about it if I hadn't been insulted hundreds of times for bringing things up about Rondo, and faced with this fan base that always jumps to the defense of any Celtic.

One of my all time favorite moments as a kid went down in 1973 when Phil Jackson and Havlicek mixed it up. Most says "Jackson attacks John John... AND THEY ARE CALLING THE FOUL ON Havlicek!! Havlicek fouled Jackson's elbow with his EYE!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I loved it. Most was great, for a 16 year old. The other night and since Tommy has been defending Rondo, just like you in here. Not because Rondo is right, but because he's a Celtic.

Fanaticism has a place, usually around the TV in a rec room or basement or in the Garden. But the next day, it's time for sober analysis, and the overall group here has demonstrated a stunning lack of capacity for such objectivity. Witness all the rants about Rondo as a top 3 PG last year and year before, and all the preening about his getting 8 ten thousands of an MVP share.

Rondo is not going to lead this team to a title through either skill or leadership. Bank on it.

Last edited by bagwell368; 12-01-2012 at 11:20 PM.

6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

If Rondo did that under those circumstances? Bags would have marched down to the garden and kill him on the spot

Yes, but it WASN'TRondo, so Pierce gets a pass in the world according to Bags. For whatever reason Bags keeps a list on Rondo... weird kind of obession, in my opinion. smh. If he's going to do it for one player, isn't it logical he would do it for all... unless he has an axe to grind with the one particular player he does keep a list on?

Last edited by Opalmerr; 12-02-2012 at 12:29 AM.

Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

Yes, but it WASN'TRondo, so Pierce gets a pass in the world according to Bags. For whatever reason Bags keeps a list on Rondo... weird kind of obession, in my opinion. smh. If he's going to do it for one player, isn't it logical he would do it for all... unless he has an axe to grind with the one particular player he does keep a list on?

I don't even remember that - I was recovering from a botched open heart surgery a few months earlier and have few memories of that time. If I had seen it, I wouldn't be supporting him, as you rubber stamps Rondo's every idiotic move.

I made a list because somebody challenged me to prove my claims - in this board. So in your world I'm not allowed to collect data and make arguments - you do it constantly.

If you are going to claim bias on someone else's behalf, than you ought to fact check, and not let your obvious agenda turn into an innuendo pock marked witch hunt.

Nobody should pay any attention to anyone that says they have no problem with what Rondo did, on top of all his other childish behavior - which dwarfs Pierces in his college career and thus far as a pro.

Last edited by bagwell368; 12-02-2012 at 09:20 AM.

6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

This could be the key to it all. You always takes every post as a challenge. Not every post saying Rondo is great is a challenge directed at your manhood. Stop being so paranoid. And you never credit Rondo for anything. He could win league MVP and you'd still find something to say like he was immature during his press conference afterward.

Somehow, I think he'll grow from all this and I doubt we see any more Rondo bonehead moves or suspensions for the rest of the year, and hopefully for the coming years after that.

"Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

This could be the key to it all. You always takes every post as a challenge. Not every post saying Rondo is great is a challenge directed at your manhood. Stop being so paranoid. And you never credit Rondo for anything. He could win league MVP and you'd still find something to say like he was immature during his press conference afterward.

Somehow, I think he'll grow from all this and I doubt we see any more Rondo bonehead moves or suspensions for the rest of the year, and hopefully for the coming years after that.

You guys always disagree with him and challenge his point of view. It has nothing to do with manliness. I see posters all over this forum with "trophies". They use quotes from other posters as their sig as a form of public display of when they burned someone or when they think someone said something stupid and they wish to shame them with it. Bagsy puts forth well thought out opinions that he bases on facts that he gets from easily accessible sources that any one of us could use to make our own argument.

However too often on here false bravado and snarkiness are rewarded, while any research or time spent making your point seem more credible is mocked. I have a serious problem with the mods and a lot of the posters who tend to bro it up and gang up on people.

I don't agree with Bagsy on Rondo. I think RR is top 5. He doesn't. I do however respect his right to an opinion and I respect that he has a process. He also takes the constant attacks in stride. I have gone at him myself and he responded with the sort of even keel character and dignity that I see in Doc Rivers. Wisdom comes from experience once we are able to shed the arrogance of youth. I am 31 years old and I can see Bags' point of view and the typical 22 year old's view I see most often on here. History will tell the tale of whether Rondo is fool's gold or not and whether Bird really was better than Pierce(spoiler alert: he was) but I can understand the emotion of the moment. Just ease up on the guy. He's more of an asset to the conversation than you give him credit for.

Polish Post, you also realize that when Rondo does something positive no one can comment on it without Bags interjecting - he usually begins by grudgingly admitting Rondo's accomplishment and finishes up with a backhanded "compliment" before re-starting with an all out assault on Rondo in a follow up post. Just review past threads.

I don't care about his opinion of Rondo.

I do not care about his opinon on Rondo.

Bags has made his opinion on Rondo abundantly clear to all. He's also made it crystal clear there is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that will ever change his opinion of Rondo

I do like to read what others have to say about Rondo. Unfortunately we do not get to enjoy the opportunity to freely express our opinion on Rondo because Bags inevitably interjects himself with the same old anti-Rondo diatribes and lists of grievances and transgressions. When this occurs, the discussions become more about Bags (which I think he enjoys) opinion of Rondo than they are actually about Rondo.

We know how Bags feels about Rondo. He has not altered that opinion and shows no inclination or willingness to ever do so. We get it. We do not have to be reminded of Bags opinion everytime Rondo's name appears in a thread. WE KNOW HOW BAGS WILL RESPOND to any mention of Rondo. It's always the same negative ranting and raving - it doesn't change. WE KNOW BAGS HOLDS RONDO TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD THAN HE DOES OTHERS - Pierce and Garnett in particular. We get it - Bags doesn't ike Rondo. This ceased being news or even noteworthy a long, long time ago.

I would ignore Bags, but on subjects other than Rondo he can provide good nsight.
However, I'm not opposed to ignoring him as I do others either. He's brought it to that point with his incessantly redundant and repetitious campaign against Rondo. I KNOW WHAT BAGS OPINION OF RONDO IS AND DO NO NEED TO BE REMINDED OF IT everytime Rondo's name appears in a thread.

(The above brought to you in the incessantly redundant sytling of Bags)

Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

Polish Post, you also realize that when Rondo does something positive no one can comment on it without Bags interjecting - he usually begins by grudgingly admitting Rondo's accomplishment and finishes up with a backhanded "compliment" before re-starting with an all out assault on Rondo in a follow up post. Just review past threads.

I don't care about his opinion of Rondo.

I do not care about his opinon on Rondo.

Bags has made his opinion on Rondo abundantly clear to all. He's also made it crystal clear there is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that will ever change his opinion of Rondo

I do like to read what others have to say about Rondo. Unfortunately we do not get to enjoy the opportunity to freely express our opinion on Rondo because Bags inevitably interjects himself with the same old anti-Rondo diatribes and lists of grievances and transgressions. When this occurs, the discussions become more about Bags (which I think he enjoys) opinion of Rondo than they are actually about Rondo.

We know how Bags feels about Rondo. He has not altered that opinion and shows no inclination or willingness to ever do so. We get it. We do not have to be reminded of Bags opinion everytime Rondo's name appears in a thread. WE KNOW HOW BAGS WILL RESPOND to any mention of Rondo. It's always the same negative ranting and raving - it doesn't change. WE KNOW BAGS HOLDS RONDO TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD THAN HE DOES OTHERS - Pierce and Garnett in particular. We get it - Bags doesn't ike Rondo. This ceased being news or even noteworthy a long, long time ago.

I would ignore Bags, but on subjects other than Rondo he can provide good nsight.
However, I'm not opposed to ignoring him as I do others either. He's brought it to that point with his incessantly redundant and repetitious campaign against Rondo. I KNOW WHAT BAGS OPINION OF RONDO IS AND DO NO NEED TO BE REMINDED OF IT everytime Rondo's name appears in a thread.
(The above brought to you in the incessantly redundant sytling of Bags)

Thank you for taking the time to debate with Bags in this Rondo thread. I've honestly stopped about 90% of my posting in the celtics forum due to the redundancy that is Bags vs Rondo.

I don't even understand how one poster can be so obsessed with just one player.

What about the poster here that never says anything negative about Rondo, he's been awfully scarce since this issue.

He could win league MVP and you'd still find something to say like he was immature during his press conference afterward.

That won't happen.

Somehow, I think he'll grow from all this and I doubt we see any more Rondo bonehead moves or suspensions for the rest of the year, and hopefully for the coming years after that.

I hope he does, but I've said and thought that before... how many more times does he get? If this is it, that would be great for him and the Celts. To some of you, he can do no wrong - yet he does. So, maybe it's having a Celts fan that calls him for what he is that rankles the worst.

Last edited by bagwell368; 12-02-2012 at 03:27 PM.

6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

You guys always disagree with him and challenge his point of view. It has nothing to do with manliness. I see posters all over this forum with "trophies". They use quotes from other posters as their sig as a form of public display of when they burned someone or when they think someone said something stupid and they wish to shame them with it. Bagsy puts forth well thought out opinions that he bases on facts that he gets from easily accessible sources that any one of us could use to make our own argument.

However too often on here false bravado and snarkiness are rewarded, while any research or time spent making your point seem more credible is mocked. I have a serious problem with the mods and a lot of the posters who tend to bro it up and gang up on people.

I don't agree with Bagsy on Rondo. I think RR is top 5. He doesn't. I do however respect his right to an opinion and I respect that he has a process. He also takes the constant attacks in stride. I have gone at him myself and he responded with the sort of even keel character and dignity that I see in Doc Rivers. Wisdom comes from experience once we are able to shed the arrogance of youth. I am 31 years old and I can see Bags' point of view and the typical 22 year old's view I see most often on here. History will tell the tale of whether Rondo is fool's gold or not and whether Bird really was better than Pierce(spoiler alert: he was) but I can understand the emotion of the moment. Just ease up on the guy. He's more of an asset to the conversation than you give him credit for.

wow, thanks

6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”