"Restructured contracts and player transactions have saved the Detroit Lions approximately $27 million toward the 2013 cap, allowing them to make token signings in free agency." - Mike Ohara

So, we've shoved $27 million down the road TWENTY SEVEN MILLION, just this year alone. That's TWO SUPERSTAR PLAYERS we've pushed down the road JUST THIS OFFSEASON, and we STILL have no less than 5 holes on this team. That's horrible... You guys should want to puke, yet you jump for joy for over-paid scraps like Reggie Bush... Typical Lions fans...

When are you guys going to wake up and see what's going on?

Don't "So what?" me. Seriously, where did I say it was a good thing? I was just putting out an answer to Wags post. I didn't say anything about it being the right or wrong thing to do.

I just did "so what you!" What are you gonna do about it?

I dont know about what Rao would do, but im going to say "nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doo-doo."

see I can go all 3rd grade too!

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

March 19th, 2013, 3:27 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: CJ restructured also.

Shotty wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Okay, first I didn't create this, I am going back to what you've consistently said.

You are arguing about what SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE LAST YEAR. Yeah and we shoulda voted in a better President too, but we're stuck with the horse we got. We've got to ride it out, because we're FANS and have NO SAY so about Lions issues, except a boycott, and good luck with that.

Staff and CJ have pushed their money around to help the team NOW, we want to win NOW, getting FA's in that can plug holes may help do that.

Again, you are barking at fellow fans who have little to nothing to do with DL Front office. Your recommendations mean as much to us as a cup of coffeee. Can you fix it? Can I? Can a hundred of us? NO, NO, and NO.

Your venting is going no where, so why do you consistently try to proove a point to us? It isn't doing you any good, it's bringing down the boards like a rain cloud over eyore (spelling) and it gets you where?

That's my point, stop complaining to us, and Bombard Allen Park with certified letters, they're the ones who can make the changes, in here it's just arguing.

My issue is with the people that jump for joy when we sign and over-pay Reggie Bush, and try to come up with "strategies" to make the playoffs in 2013. It's not going to happen. People getting on this "complacent" bandwagon perpetuates the teams bad decisions. As much as WCF says that fan grumblings don't effect his decisions, when the fans finally revolted against Millen and stopped selling out games every week, he got canned.

I don't think we should cut Suh until after June 1st, and it may not be a good idea at all at this point, now that Mayhew has kicked that can more down the road. $27 million just this offseason in future salary he's stolen from this team, and people act as if he's doing something right.

It's the support for Mayhew that gets me.

That $27 million will be spread out completely, and a Stafford restructure and cap increase next offseason would make it less hurtful.

Also, you gotta be a little easier on the Lions FO. Are they going full-out Jaguars and drafting a damn punter in the 3rd round? Are they giving Albert Haynseworth an $100 million contract? Are they restructuring every player to the point where they'll be paying 20 players $106 million next season (Cowboys)? Yes, we're in cap hurt, and yes you can't reasonably compare our front office to those of the Giants, Steelers, 49ers, Ravens, Patriots, etc., but at least we're not doing anything absurdly bad. There are many fixes to the cap issues. If Staff is restructured, we can pay off lots of that restructure money in his first cheap years, and if Suh is traded, as many would love to happen, the sky is the limit for this team when we add $20 million worth free agents. That can be 2 All-Pro players. Just give it some time, and if WCF doesn't see improvement very soon, Mayhew and Schwartz will go.

Do you really want to say we're being managed better than the Cowboys, Jags, Raiders, etc. as your benchmark?

IMO all of their GMs should be fired too.

It doesn't matter how much we "spread out" the "mortgaging of our future." We're mortgaging our future and not even fielding a respectable team. IMO we're going to be 6-10 next year, at best. If we get lucky and win two more games than that I'd be VERY surprised. So why? Why not go get some young guys, save the coin, and develop players to make a REAL RUN with REAL MONEY later? Why blow money now?

By the time this team is ready to roll, Reggie Bush is going to be gone. His money is wasted. RB wasn't a weakness, IMO, yet we wasted a money picking one up. We still don't have a #2 CB, #2 WR, SSLB, #2 DE (arguably not even a #1 DE), and we're short at least one OT, and possibly an OG too... IMO that's horrible management, even if some teams are doing worse.

I love the Quin signing and I think our S's are going to be the biggest improvement. IMO for the first time in... hell, probably a decade, we're going to see quality S play and it's going to help mask some of the mistakes of the rest of the D. However, it doesn't matter much if we're going to have DL, LB and CB holes.

$27 million just this offseason in future salary he's stolen from this team, and people act as if he's doing something right.

It's a worry, especially as we've used the spare money created to sign back loaded deals. Unless Billy's right about the 2015 cap (and, no offence Billy, but I'm not 100% convinced) it seems to me that 2015/16/17 could well be barren restructuring years for this team.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

It's the support for Mayhew that gets me.

[/quote]We've got to get to the playoffs in 2013 and make a deep run in 2014 IMO for that support to continue. If he pulls that off, I'll give him support for another rebuild cycle. Anything less and he needs to go.

Last edited by UK Lion on March 19th, 2013, 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

March 19th, 2013, 4:57 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: CJ restructured also.

UK Lion wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

$27 million just this offseason in future salary he's stolen from this team, and people act as if he's doing something right.It's a worry, especially as we've used the spare money created to sign back loaded deals. Unless Billy's right about the 2015 cap (and, no offence Billy, but I'm not 100% convinced) it seems to me that 2015/16/17 could well be barren restructuring years for this team.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

It's the support for Mayhew that gets me.

We've got to get to the playoffs in 2013 and make a deep run in 2014 IMO for that support to continue. If he pulls that off, I'll give him support for another rebuild cycle. Anything less and he needs to go.

You really think we have a shot at playoffs this year? I'm not insinuating anything by that, it's just an honest question as to where you see the state of this team.

March 19th, 2013, 5:00 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3987Location: Davison Mi

Re: CJ restructured also.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

UK Lion wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

$27 million just this offseason in future salary he's stolen from this team, and people act as if he's doing something right.It's a worry, especially as we've used the spare money created to sign back loaded deals. Unless Billy's right about the 2015 cap (and, no offence Billy, but I'm not 100% convinced) it seems to me that 2015/16/17 could well be barren restructuring years for this team.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

It's the support for Mayhew that gets me.

We've got to get to the playoffs in 2013 and make a deep run in 2014 IMO for that support to continue. If he pulls that off, I'll give him support for another rebuild cycle. Anything less and he needs to go.

You really think we have a shot at playoffs this year? I'm not insinuating anything by that, it's just an honest question as to where you see the state of this team.

I think we have a shot if we get our hands on a good Tackle and Defensive End. Look at how many games we lost by 8 points or less last year. Improvement at saftey alone buys us a point or 2 per game (on average of course)

now if we dont address those 2 spots I have a hard time seeing us get past .500.

$27 million just this offseason in future salary he's stolen from this team, and people act as if he's doing something right.It's a worry, especially as we've used the spare money created to sign back loaded deals. Unless Billy's right about the 2015 cap (and, no offence Billy, but I'm not 100% convinced) it seems to me that 2015/16/17 could well be barren restructuring years for this team.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

It's the support for Mayhew that gets me.

We've got to get to the playoffs in 2013 and make a deep run in 2014 IMO for that support to continue. If he pulls that off, I'll give him support for another rebuild cycle. Anything less and he needs to go.

You really think we have a shot at playoffs this year? I'm not insinuating anything by that, it's just an honest question as to where you see the state of this team.

I think it's definitely unlikely, but not impossible either.

This team sure as hell is not as good as I would want it to be for the "all in" shove we seem to have performed this off-season. Still, it's what we're stuck with. I don't see much value in moving on from Lewand, Mayhew and Schwartz at this point - we're stuck with this team the next couple of years, and cap hell the following couple of years. So I'm ok with letting the guys that built the team see if they can win with it. I'm not optimistic they can, but I sure hope they prove me wrong.

I'd also prefer that we tried to build a team that is sustainable - Steelers/Ravens/Patriots style - rather than go for the "boom and bust" approach. Tough for us to do right now I guess, given we caught the tail end of pre-CBA monster rookie contracts. And tough for Mayhew to stick with given NFL job security.

March 19th, 2013, 5:12 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: CJ restructured also.

Ok, can we take this in another direction for a moment, just to answer a question?

How much of this becomes moot when/if the Lions win? By win I mean go deeper in the playoffs then ever before? Maybe not SB but NFC Championship or the game before it?

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

March 19th, 2013, 5:24 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: CJ restructured also.

Also, isn't Mayhew the genious that negotiated Roy Williams for 3 picks? He used that to create the 11 team that really blossomed? MM and his staff brought in such a mediocre plan and/or leadership that they didn't have the vision to get us out of where the Lions were at. We got stuck with consecutive years of HIGH 1st round draft picks, and no one really wanted to trade, or MM pulled the trigger despite what the coaches said.(If I understood that right from other posts).

So we were so far down in the hole that just when we thought we reached the lip of it to get back to normalcy, only to slip back into it and hang from said lip, this is Mayhew's fault? I still think it's 3/4 of the way through the too soon to tell excuse.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

March 19th, 2013, 5:28 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3987Location: Davison Mi

Re: CJ restructured also.

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Ok, can we take this in another direction for a moment, just to answer a question?

How much of this becomes moot when/if the Lions win? By win I mean go deeper in the playoffs then ever before? Maybe not SB but NFC Championship or the game before it?

well it would all be moot if WJB was full of hot air. But sadly he is not. The problem lies in the idea that we NEED to win and win now, cuz cap issues are not going to go away. Mayhew is going to be forced to bite the preverbial bullet and eat a lot of dead money for a year or two. He's post poning it as long as he can, but sooner or later the chickens are going to come home to roost and there will be no money left.

you think things were tight last year? lookout cuz a year is comming where we are going to cut guys wholesale with no money to sign replacements.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

March 19th, 2013, 5:33 pm

JL

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: December 13th, 2005, 2:09 pmPosts: 533

Re: CJ restructured also.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Do you really want to say we're being managed better than the Cowboys, Jags, Raiders, etc. as your benchmark?

IMO all of their GMs should be fired too.

It doesn't matter how much we "spread out" the "mortgaging of our future." We're mortgaging our future and not even fielding a respectable team. IMO we're going to be 6-10 next year, at best. If we get lucky and win two more games than that I'd be VERY surprised. So why? Why not go get some young guys, save the coin, and develop players to make a REAL RUN with REAL MONEY later? Why blow money now?

By the time this team is ready to roll, Reggie Bush is going to be gone. His money is wasted. RB wasn't a weakness, IMO, yet we wasted a money picking one up. We still don't have a #2 CB, #2 WR, SSLB, #2 DE (arguably not even a #1 DE), and we're short at least one OT, and possibly an OG too... IMO that's horrible management, even if some teams are doing worse.

I love the Quin signing and I think our S's are going to be the biggest improvement. IMO for the first time in... hell, probably a decade, we're going to see quality S play and it's going to help mask some of the mistakes of the rest of the D. However, it doesn't matter much if we're going to have DL, LB and CB holes.

I'll say it. GM of the Cowboys is the owner. Good luck firing him. GM of the Jags - brand spankin' new, since the other one JUST got fired last year. Raiders? GM has one year under his belt, still digging out from the cap-hell roster disaster of the previous Owner/GM that died.

Or how about Cleveland? Their GM low-balled the Rams for the #2 pick and the chance to draft RGIII. He's gone. The Chiefs? Cardinals? Jets? Anyone willing to trade the players on those teams for ours, straight up?

You seem to ignore the fact that Mayhew can't just "surrender" and go into full rebuild mode. The team was in the playoffs in 2011, a rebuild would look horrible to the fans, and there are bills to be paid from their ticket purchases.

So yes, the Lions front office isn't that horrible, unless your posting name is wjb21ndtown, then Mayhew is worse than Millen and should be fired yesterday.

_________________If God isn't a Lions fan, then why is the sky Honolulu Blue?

March 19th, 2013, 5:39 pm

Shotty

Millen Draft Pick - Epic Bust

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 717

Re: CJ restructured also.

regularjoe12 wrote:

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Ok, can we take this in another direction for a moment, just to answer a question?

How much of this becomes moot when/if the Lions win? By win I mean go deeper in the playoffs then ever before? Maybe not SB but NFC Championship or the game before it?

well it would all be moot if WJB was full of hot air. But sadly he is not. The problem lies in the idea that we NEED to win and win now, cuz cap issues are not going to go away. Mayhew is going to be forced to bite the preverbial bullet and eat a lot of dead money for a year or two. He's post poning it as long as he can, but sooner or later the chickens are going to come home to roost and there will be no money left.

you think things were tight last year? lookout cuz a year is comming where we are going to cut guys wholesale with no money to sign replacements.

A new deal for Stafford and Suh trade WILL eventually happen, and save us $20 million in each of the first two seasons after they occur. Tulloch's guaranteed $$ will be out by then, Burleson's contract will expire, Corey Williams is gone soon, and if not will come back and be a decent rotational DT at a very low price (which he said he'd like to do). Best's contract will end. All of these changes will happen in the next few years. Add in a bunch of cheap guys from the draft, and we'll OK if we draft well and make better decisions regarding our free agents. The only guys you can bet will be Lions in 5 years are Stafford, CJ, Broyles, Reiff, Fairley, Houston, and Quin. The rest falls on how Mayhew gets things done, and believe it or not, I trust him to do a decent job of putting an at-least decent roster out there each year.

_________________

Last edited by Shotty on March 19th, 2013, 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

March 19th, 2013, 5:42 pm

JL

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: December 13th, 2005, 2:09 pmPosts: 533

Re: CJ restructured also.

regularjoe12 wrote:

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Ok, can we take this in another direction for a moment, just to answer a question?

How much of this becomes moot when/if the Lions win? By win I mean go deeper in the playoffs then ever before? Maybe not SB but NFC Championship or the game before it?

well it would all be moot if WJB was full of hot air. But sadly he is not. The problem lies in the idea that we NEED to win and win now, cuz cap issues are not going to go away. Mayhew is going to be forced to bite the preverbial bullet and eat a lot of dead money for a year or two. He's post poning it as long as he can, but sooner or later the chickens are going to come home to roost and there will be no money left.

you think things were tight last year? lookout cuz a year is comming where we are going to cut guys wholesale with no money to sign replacements.

I disagree. Everyone wants to ignore the fact that new TV revenue is coming by 2015, not to mention the fact that by the time the new money and higher cap rolls in, the CBA and the rookie wage scale will have really started to take hold.

Yes, right now it's postponing the outgoing cash, and adding to "dead money" possibilities, but other than that, it's good management.

_________________If God isn't a Lions fan, then why is the sky Honolulu Blue?

March 19th, 2013, 5:43 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: CJ restructured also.

JL wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Do you really want to say we're being managed better than the Cowboys, Jags, Raiders, etc. as your benchmark?

IMO all of their GMs should be fired too.

It doesn't matter how much we "spread out" the "mortgaging of our future." We're mortgaging our future and not even fielding a respectable team. IMO we're going to be 6-10 next year, at best. If we get lucky and win two more games than that I'd be VERY surprised. So why? Why not go get some young guys, save the coin, and develop players to make a REAL RUN with REAL MONEY later? Why blow money now?

By the time this team is ready to roll, Reggie Bush is going to be gone. His money is wasted. RB wasn't a weakness, IMO, yet we wasted a money picking one up. We still don't have a #2 CB, #2 WR, SSLB, #2 DE (arguably not even a #1 DE), and we're short at least one OT, and possibly an OG too... IMO that's horrible management, even if some teams are doing worse.

I love the Quin signing and I think our S's are going to be the biggest improvement. IMO for the first time in... hell, probably a decade, we're going to see quality S play and it's going to help mask some of the mistakes of the rest of the D. However, it doesn't matter much if we're going to have DL, LB and CB holes.

I'll say it. GM of the Cowboys is the owner. Good luck firing him. GM of the Jags - brand spankin' new, since the other one JUST got fired last year. Raiders? GM has one year under his belt, still digging out from the cap-hell roster disaster of the previous Owner/GM that died.

Or how about Cleveland? Their GM low-balled the Rams for the #2 pick and the chance to draft RGIII. He's gone. The Chiefs? Cardinals? Jets? Anyone willing to trade the players on those teams for ours, straight up?

You seem to ignore the fact that Mayhew can't just "surrender" and go into full rebuild mode. The team was in the playoffs in 2011, a rebuild would look horrible to the fans, and there are bills to be paid from their ticket purchases.

So yes, the Lions front office isn't that horrible, unless your posting name is wjb21ndtown, then Mayhew is worse than Millen and should be fired yesterday.

I really don't get your point here...

Mayhew didn't need to "surrender" and go into full rebuild mode, what he needed to do was navigate the 2012 offseason in a manner that helped the team, and he failed and failed miserably. Now we sort of do need to "surrender and go into full rebuild mode" in a sense. It's completely retarded to go out and get guys like Reggie Bush that aren't going to be here when this team is ready to win, and completely retarded to keep mortgaging the future to patch together this piece mail, crappy team that Mayhew is ultimately going to field this August.

regularjoe12 explained it pretty well. The only way I see this stuff becoming moot is if they win a Super Bowl. A SB gets them enough good will to survive a rebuild, but anything else will look like they gave up.

March 19th, 2013, 5:48 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3987Location: Davison Mi

Re: CJ restructured also.

JL wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Ok, can we take this in another direction for a moment, just to answer a question?

How much of this becomes moot when/if the Lions win? By win I mean go deeper in the playoffs then ever before? Maybe not SB but NFC Championship or the game before it?

well it would all be moot if WJB was full of hot air. But sadly he is not. The problem lies in the idea that we NEED to win and win now, cuz cap issues are not going to go away. Mayhew is going to be forced to bite the preverbial bullet and eat a lot of dead money for a year or two. He's post poning it as long as he can, but sooner or later the chickens are going to come home to roost and there will be no money left.

you think things were tight last year? lookout cuz a year is comming where we are going to cut guys wholesale with no money to sign replacements.

I disagree. Everyone wants to ignore the fact that new TV revenue is coming by 2015, not to mention the fact that by the time the new money and higher cap rolls in, the CBA and the rookie wage scale will have really started to take hold.

Yes, right now it's postponing the outgoing cash, and adding to "dead money" possibilities, but other than that, it's good management.

I agree with you in general, but i dont see how we are not going to see a year where we make last year look like it was raining dolla bills! The Suh contract is where the problem lies. I dont know what we can do about that, but realistically I can't see him playing here through the voidable year on his contract. We are going to eat about 4-5 GOOD players worth of salary that one year. Everything else is nitpicking IMO, but the Suh contract is going to cause a mess. I just dont see a way around it.