anrst wrote:I am shocked at how many fans and media (mainstream and blog) voices are pumping the idea that signing KD is still a good move by the knicks

how is this possible... it would be completely insane ...

if we do this stupid thing and sign KD while he's lying in a hospital bed ... i ... will ... i dunno

JUST DONT SO IT SCOTT

We're going to do it unfortunately, our only hope is if KD saves us from ourselves and takes the warriors or nets offer.

At the end of the day I can look on it as: we're never going to sign a hero with cap space. I'd rather use it to accept contracts for picks or make shrewd low key signings, but we'll still have a max space for that. Look on diminished KD as a piece you add to whatever our youth develops into (like a free first round pick in a year or two). If you accept we'll never sign a max allstar, then it's not as maddening

If they sign KD it isn't going to turn out well. When he comes back in 21 he probably has a Heyward work his way back year. That means he is what he is going to be post achilles injury when he is 33.

And when he’s 33 the league will have moved past him real quick.

TownsEmbidADLucaFoxGianisSiakamZionAnd others

A few of these guys will have risen up to league ownership status

And we will have shell of himself KD eating up the budget

And all those people like rick Buchner and Bill Simmons and all the Knicks bloggers sayin ‘oh well he will still be 7 foot with a sweet jumper’ won’t remember saying that

anrst wrote:I am shocked at how many fans and media (mainstream and blog) voices are pumping the idea that signing KD is still a good move by the knicks

how is this possible... it would be completely insane ...

if we do this stupid thing and sign KD while he's lying in a hospital bed ... i ... will ... i dunno

JUST DONT SO IT SCOTT

We're going to do it unfortunately, our only hope is if KD saves us from ourselves and takes the warriors or nets offer.

At the end of the day I can look on it as: we're never going to sign a hero with cap space. I'd rather use it to accept contracts for picks or make shrewd low key signings, but we'll still have a max space for that. Look on diminished KD as a piece you add to whatever our youth develops into (like a free first round pick in a year or two). If you accept we'll never sign a max allstar, then it's not as maddening

If they sign KD it isn't going to turn out well. When he comes back in 21 he probably has a Heyward work his way back year. That means he is what he is going to be post achilles injury when he is 33.

And when he’s 33 the league will have moved past him real quick.

TownsEmbidADLucaFoxGianisSiakamZionAnd others

A few of these guys will have risen up to league ownership status

And we will have shell of himself KD eating up the budget

And all those people like rick Buchner and Bill Simmons and all the Knicks bloggers sayin ‘oh well he will still be 7 foot with a sweet jumper’ won’t remember saying that

If KD signs with the Knicks it willinstantly be labeled a dumb, same old knicks move. If he signs with the Nets, Marks will be brilliant and the picks that he traded won't matter. For perspective see coverage of the Crabbe deal versus the Hardaway deal.

PresIke wrote:I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Kawhi is really the last hope and that's a longggg shot.

The smart move is probably not to go there with KD. The KNicks have a boat load of picks and a ton of cap space. That gives them incredible flexibility if they are smartly managed.

PresIke wrote:I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Agree. This summer is going to be a test of wether or not Mills walks it like he talks it. In too many interviews to count, he has tried to portray himself as an innocent bystsnder as the Knicks make one costly mistake after another. Like signing Amar'e knowing he couldnt even get insurance.

If Mills pushes for signing KD, knowing his age and the severity of his injury. He will have a real hard time saying that again. One of the most important things I believe Perry has brought to this franchise is patience. As long as the Knicks continue to show it, I believe it will pay off. Boston might not be there yet, but they're still in the hunt because they're patient.

I’m afraid mills and Perry were only able to keep Dolan in the background by making him all too comfortable and ****y that kd would be here ready to dominate in 2020. That’s why he wasn’t meddling but was still so much more in your face than normal with some spare interviews.

Now, with some circumstances changed, does Dolan pressure the FO to create a false “buzz” with short sighted moves? I gotta think it’s more likely than not that he will.

Even though he doesn’t need to since garden will sell out and franchise value will still rise, I gotta think he will.

Also, if it’s true he wants to sell the Knicks in a year or two, he might just be dumb enough to think that attaching a rehabbing KD can justify raising his asking price bc somehow a 32 year old returning on the horizon on limited minutes from a torn Achilles makes the future bright.

PresIke wrote:I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Kawhi is really the last hope and that's a longggg shot.

The smart move is probably not to go there with KD. The KNicks have a boat load of picks and a ton of cap space. That gives them incredible flexibility if they are smartly managed.

Yeah, it can work out...maybe, it's still very, very annoying and not good for us for some time if we "stay the course." I'm not certain the Knicks will do that either.

Thing is trading for a big star is going to cost what it costs. Like the AD trade cost LA and is raising "questions." Is that not what "accumulating assets" can be for or is it something else?

Cap space now was for certain players this summer. Next is summer's FA picture is awful as you know. KD was the one and now Kyrie, dubious to be signed on his own, is looking like he's going elsewhere anyway.

Russell?

Maybe.

Kawhi? That would be great, but seems unlikely.

Otherwise most are not worth it to me unless you have a top tier talent...which we don't have. That's why an AD trade is more worth it to the Lakers.

We've lost out on 2 of the few for the taking this summer in a fully fit KD or AD. It's hard not to see this as anything other than a major setback.

At this point I think we should use our cap space to take on a bad contract or maybe 2 for next season (2 seasons?) from other teams who want rid in order to gain more draft picks/assets (young-ish) players. As far as I also understand we need to take more contacts on anyway as you can't go into the season under a certain amount of salary.

I'd also be open to signing Russell for $20m a season (if Nets go for Kyrie instead) and then consider taking a short term bad-ish expiring 2021 contract vet from some team wanting be under the lux tax or whatever for assets since next summer is not helping get you a superstar, and then hope to flip whatever assets we need to in a trade for "the next superstar" in a year or so.

PresIke wrote:I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Agree. This summer is going to be a test of wether or not Mills walks it like he talks it. In too many interviews to count, he has tried to portray himself as an innocent bystsnder as the Knicks make one costly mistake after another. Like signing Amar'e knowing he couldnt even get insurance.

If Mills pushes for signing KD, knowing his age and the severity of his injury. He will have a real hard time saying that again. One of the most important things I believe Perry has brought to this franchise is patience. As long as the Knicks continue to show it, I believe it will pay off. Boston might not be there yet, but they're still in the hunt because they're patient.

Let me play devil's advocate....The Celtics were further along than the Raptors, but the Raptors gambled and it paid off. They jumped over the celts and won a chip.

The celtics had an opportunity to trade for Kawhi but patient Ainge refused, and perhaps lost out on a chip. His best player is about to walk for nothing in return..a player he gave up a pick for that turned into Sexton, a pg they desperately need right now. Ainge used his cap space on a healthy Hayward who had a horrible injury that perhaps altered his career. Signing anyone, healthy or not, is a gamble.

Cap space is only as good as the players you use it on. So, if we dont sign KD, do we use our space to over pay Kemba and Tobias Harris and fight for 7 and 8 seeds over the next 3 yrs? Do we hold onto it and just sign another batch of retreads to a series of 1 yr deals and wait for Giannis to turn us down? That's a gamble too.

Perry and Mills have some interesting decisions to make but we cant keep spinning our wheels. 2 more years of having the worse record in the league and picking 3rd or 4th will cost people their jobs. Remember, this is also a business. Not signing KD is a gamble because what if he signs with the nets and he returns to form or at least very close to it like Wilkins did? Imagine the headlines in NY?! Its a gamble either way, we just have to hope we roll 7s

PresIke wrote:I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Agree. This summer is going to be a test of wether or not Mills walks it like he talks it. In too many interviews to count, he has tried to portray himself as an innocent bystsnder as the Knicks make one costly mistake after another. Like signing Amar'e knowing he couldnt even get insurance.

If Mills pushes for signing KD, knowing his age and the severity of his injury. He will have a real hard time saying that again. One of the most important things I believe Perry has brought to this franchise is patience. As long as the Knicks continue to show it, I believe it will pay off. Boston might not be there yet, but they're still in the hunt because they're patient.

Let me play devil's advocate....The Celtics were further along than the Raptors, but the Raptors gambled and it paid off. They jumped over the celts and won a chip.

The celtics had an opportunity to trade for Kawhi but patient Ainge refused, and perhaps lost out on a chip. His best player is about to walk for nothing in return..a player he gave up a pick for that turned into Sexton, a pg they desperately need right now. Ainge used his cap space on a healthy Hayward who had a horrible injury that perhaps altered his career. Signing anyone, healthy or not, is a gamble.

Cap space is only as good as the players you use it on. So, if we dont sign KD, do we use our space to over pay Kemba and Tobias Harris and fight for 7 and 8 seeds over the next 3 yrs? Do we hold onto it and just sign another batch of retreads to a series of 1 yr deals and wait for Giannis to turn us down? That's a gamble too.

Perry and Mills have some interesting decisions to make but we cant keep spinning our wheels. 2 more years of having the worse record in the league and picking 3rd or 4th will cost people their jobs. Remember, this is also a business. Not signing KD is a gamble because what if he signs with the nets and he returns to form or at least very close to it like Wilkins did? Imagine the headlines in NY?! Its a gamble either way, we just have to hope we roll 7s

I think they get a mulligan because of the KD injury. I also think things come up with star players where if you have the assets and cap space you have opportunities. The Knicks have that now. Hopefully Perry/Mills continue to be smart in their approach.

PresIke wrote:I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Agree. This summer is going to be a test of wether or not Mills walks it like he talks it. In too many interviews to count, he has tried to portray himself as an innocent bystsnder as the Knicks make one costly mistake after another. Like signing Amar'e knowing he couldnt even get insurance.

If Mills pushes for signing KD, knowing his age and the severity of his injury. He will have a real hard time saying that again. One of the most important things I believe Perry has brought to this franchise is patience. As long as the Knicks continue to show it, I believe it will pay off. Boston might not be there yet, but they're still in the hunt because they're patient.

Let me play devil's advocate....The Celtics were further along than the Raptors, but the Raptors gambled and it paid off. They jumped over the celts and won a chip.

The celtics had an opportunity to trade for Kawhi but patient Ainge refused, and perhaps lost out on a chip. His best player is about to walk for nothing in return..a player he gave up a pick for that turned into Sexton, a pg they desperately need right now. Ainge used his cap space on a healthy Hayward who had a horrible injury that perhaps altered his career. Signing anyone, healthy or not, is a gamble.

Cap space is only as good as the players you use it on. So, if we dont sign KD, do we use our space to over pay Kemba and Tobias Harris and fight for 7 and 8 seeds over the next 3 yrs? Do we hold onto it and just sign another batch of retreads to a series of 1 yr deals and wait for Giannis to turn us down? That's a gamble too.

Perry and Mills have some interesting decisions to make but we cant keep spinning our wheels. 2 more years of having the worse record in the league and picking 3rd or 4th will cost people their jobs. Remember, this is also a business. Not signing KD is a gamble because what if he signs with the nets and he returns to form or at least very close to it like Wilkins did? Imagine the headlines in NY?! Its a gamble either way, we just have to hope we roll 7s

I think they get a mulligan because of the KD injury. I also think things come up with star players where if you have the assets and cap space you have opportunities. The Knicks have that now. Hopefully Perry/Mills continue to be smart in their approach.

One thing 8 learned from this AD trade and how are assets are viewed is that without playing some semblance of structured winning basketball our assets/players were undervalued so being able to,compete with the LA offer was non existent with givin* up first born rights...

We cannot continue to hold cap for players that look at us as a barren field with a Knicks logo...

PresIke wrote:I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Agree. This summer is going to be a test of wether or not Mills walks it like he talks it. In too many interviews to count, he has tried to portray himself as an innocent bystsnder as the Knicks make one costly mistake after another. Like signing Amar'e knowing he couldnt even get insurance.

If Mills pushes for signing KD, knowing his age and the severity of his injury. He will have a real hard time saying that again. One of the most important things I believe Perry has brought to this franchise is patience. As long as the Knicks continue to show it, I believe it will pay off. Boston might not be there yet, but they're still in the hunt because they're patient.

Let me play devil's advocate....The Celtics were further along than the Raptors, but the Raptors gambled and it paid off. They jumped over the celts and won a chip.

The celtics had an opportunity to trade for Kawhi but patient Ainge refused, and perhaps lost out on a chip. His best player is about to walk for nothing in return..a player he gave up a pick for that turned into Sexton, a pg they desperately need right now. Ainge used his cap space on a healthy Hayward who had a horrible injury that perhaps altered his career. Signing anyone, healthy or not, is a gamble.

Cap space is only as good as the players you use it on. So, if we dont sign KD, do we use our space to over pay Kemba and Tobias Harris and fight for 7 and 8 seeds over the next 3 yrs? Do we hold onto it and just sign another batch of retreads to a series of 1 yr deals and wait for Giannis to turn us down? That's a gamble too.

Perry and Mills have some interesting decisions to make but we cant keep spinning our wheels. 2 more years of having the worse record in the league and picking 3rd or 4th will cost people their jobs. Remember, this is also a business. Not signing KD is a gamble because what if he signs with the nets and he returns to form or at least very close to it like Wilkins did? Imagine the headlines in NY?! Its a gamble either way, we just have to hope we roll 7s

I think they get a mulligan because of the KD injury. I also think things come up with star players where if you have the assets and cap space you have opportunities. The Knicks have that now. Hopefully Perry/Mills continue to be smart in their approach.

One thing 8 learned from this AD trade and how are assets are viewed is that without playing some semblance of structured winning basketball our assets/players were undervalued so being able to,compete with the LA offer was non existent with givin* up first born rights...

We cannot continue to hold cap for players that look at us as a barren field with a Knicks logo...

The Knicks were not offering anything close to what the Lakers gave up.

PresIke wrote:I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Agree. This summer is going to be a test of wether or not Mills walks it like he talks it. In too many interviews to count, he has tried to portray himself as an innocent bystsnder as the Knicks make one costly mistake after another. Like signing Amar'e knowing he couldnt even get insurance.

If Mills pushes for signing KD, knowing his age and the severity of his injury. He will have a real hard time saying that again. One of the most important things I believe Perry has brought to this franchise is patience. As long as the Knicks continue to show it, I believe it will pay off. Boston might not be there yet, but they're still in the hunt because they're patient.

Let me play devil's advocate....The Celtics were further along than the Raptors, but the Raptors gambled and it paid off. They jumped over the celts and won a chip.

The celtics had an opportunity to trade for Kawhi but patient Ainge refused, and perhaps lost out on a chip. His best player is about to walk for nothing in return..a player he gave up a pick for that turned into Sexton, a pg they desperately need right now. Ainge used his cap space on a healthy Hayward who had a horrible injury that perhaps altered his career. Signing anyone, healthy or not, is a gamble.

Cap space is only as good as the players you use it on. So, if we dont sign KD, do we use our space to over pay Kemba and Tobias Harris and fight for 7 and 8 seeds over the next 3 yrs? Do we hold onto it and just sign another batch of retreads to a series of 1 yr deals and wait for Giannis to turn us down? That's a gamble too.

Perry and Mills have some interesting decisions to make but we cant keep spinning our wheels. 2 more years of having the worse record in the league and picking 3rd or 4th will cost people their jobs. Remember, this is also a business. Not signing KD is a gamble because what if he signs with the nets and he returns to form or at least very close to it like Wilkins did? Imagine the headlines in NY?! Its a gamble either way, we just have to hope we roll 7s

I think they get a mulligan because of the KD injury. I also think things come up with star players where if you have the assets and cap space you have opportunities. The Knicks have that now. Hopefully Perry/Mills continue to be smart in their approach.

Absolutely Crush. Ive always been a big believer in their approach. We have seen way too many times the Knicks mortgaging their future and paying dearly for it. Glad Perry sees the big longterm picture

PresIke wrote:I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Agree. This summer is going to be a test of wether or not Mills walks it like he talks it. In too many interviews to count, he has tried to portray himself as an innocent bystsnder as the Knicks make one costly mistake after another. Like signing Amar'e knowing he couldnt even get insurance.

If Mills pushes for signing KD, knowing his age and the severity of his injury. He will have a real hard time saying that again. One of the most important things I believe Perry has brought to this franchise is patience. As long as the Knicks continue to show it, I believe it will pay off. Boston might not be there yet, but they're still in the hunt because they're patient.

Let me play devil's advocate....The Celtics were further along than the Raptors, but the Raptors gambled and it paid off. They jumped over the celts and won a chip.

The celtics had an opportunity to trade for Kawhi but patient Ainge refused, and perhaps lost out on a chip. His best player is about to walk for nothing in return..a player he gave up a pick for that turned into Sexton, a pg they desperately need right now. Ainge used his cap space on a healthy Hayward who had a horrible injury that perhaps altered his career. Signing anyone, healthy or not, is a gamble.

Cap space is only as good as the players you use it on. So, if we dont sign KD, do we use our space to over pay Kemba and Tobias Harris and fight for 7 and 8 seeds over the next 3 yrs? Do we hold onto it and just sign another batch of retreads to a series of 1 yr deals and wait for Giannis to turn us down? That's a gamble too.

Perry and Mills have some interesting decisions to make but we cant keep spinning our wheels. 2 more years of having the worse record in the league and picking 3rd or 4th will cost people their jobs. Remember, this is also a business. Not signing KD is a gamble because what if he signs with the nets and he returns to form or at least very close to it like Wilkins did? Imagine the headlines in NY?! Its a gamble either way, we just have to hope we roll 7s

Believe you have articulated the Knicks philosophy in the Dolan era. We absolutely have to make a deal ASAP. Thats what has kept the Knicks in the cellar. You never did really say who you are talking about.

KD? In a year or so? When he is 32 and hope he is close to the player be used to be? Kyrie, who has shown he is not a leader and will put himself above his teammates?

Before McDyess was brought to NY, he was recovering from a serious knee injury. Sometimes you can see bad deals a mile away, sometimes deals dont work out because of unforseen circumstances. Doesnt mean you dont think twice about deals that look bad from a mile away. Kyrie, after his last playoff run (his injury history), KD after a catastrophic injury looks like a bad idea from a mile away. Its still safer to gamble on healthy players, than injured ones.

As for Boston. They have been patiently stockpiling draft picks, you havent seen them empty the team of draft picks, young talent, for stars past their prime. Have they been pitch perfect? Of course not. By not making the same mistakes the Knicks have, by being patient, they can still field a competitive team without big stars, and have the room to sign them when the time comes.

They can afford to miss with that strategy. Your suggesting we go all in on players who are a big risk of either chemistry problems (Kyrie) or never returning to peak performance (KD) A strategy like that has very little margin for error.

Perry/Mills have no reason to max out players for fear of missing out. Thats what is going to send us back to the days when we're all counting down when these contracts expire.

Ujiri wanted to trade Lowry well before they won a ring. If he had, things might have been different. If he had made a trade for another star, instead of Kawhi, would it have worked? Doubt it.

Ujiri didnt see a deal he for Lowry he liked, after the one in place with the Knicks fell apart. He was patient. We sign Kyrie/KD at this stage in their careers, knowing what we do now. Perry would be making the mistake IMO that Ujiri didnt. Its smart to be bold sometimes. Going by the current state of the FA market, that time isnt now.