Is Dark Intent buff making Shadow Priest 4.06 DPS on the high side?

I wanted to get thoughts on this point from the community. I am part of a 25 man guild which has cleared most of the 25 man normal raid content and should be starting on heroic soon. Before 4.06 I used to be around 4-7 on DPS list under the locks and Hunters in ranged and some mages. We raid with 3-4 Warlocks so I get Dark Intent in most raid encounters. After 4.06 on our first 4 boss kills in Blackwing Descent, I was 2nd on Magmaw, and Omnicron under an Affliction lock and was no 1 on Atremedies, Chimeron and Malorick.

Looks like our DPS has gone up significantly in 4.06 to a point where the community and other classes may soon start shouting that we are OP and need a Nerf, along with all that the pure vs hybrid crap discussion. The point I wanted to make is how much of this extra DPS is due to the additional benefit we get from Dark Intent and how much is from the buff we got in 4.06?

In some of the 10 man encounters I did after 4.06 where I did not have Dark Intent I found my DPS very comparable to the other classes and not high at all. I would like to get the thoughts of other shadow priests on this thread where in we can make Blizz development team aware that if they feel our DPS is too high they should look at changing the way Dark Intent works and not at reducing our damage as our DPS on its own is now comparable with other classes but the benefit from Dark Intent is boosting us up. Its my estimate that DI now adds around 2-3K DPS to our damage.

I think part of it is dark intent for sure, especially on 25 man bosses that allow for multi-dotting. For instance, I did 60k tonight on norm Halfus and many guildies were calling for me to be nerfed, though without dark intent it would be much more reasonable and the fight is tailor made for shadow priests.

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The dps increase across the board for all shadow priests, at least what I'm seeing, is due to the buff to MB (small but gets the job done) and a lot of the other classes getting their dpsed nerfed. I know my dps jumped about 2k on a target dummy while self buffed. Up until this point, me and my shadow counterpart in our raid couldn't get top (even on halfus), and this week on halfus we were 3 and 4 next to our top 2 consistent dps, which makes me happy. So no, DI is not OP and neither DI nor spriests need to be nerfed.

"Its hard to tank!"
"....Yeah, maybe in the first 5 seconds... if you don't have a hunter... or a rogue... or competent dps.... maybe...."

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

Conjure refreshment now applies a debuff that does 30,000 shadow damage over 10 seconds to anyone, friend or foe, within 30 yards. "Vendor's Vengeance" is not dispellable.

The people who make those arguments about giving it to shadow priests are shadow priests. They don't know how the buffs work for other classes on multi target situations. As a balance druid I get over 4k dps from the buff because its not JUST the 9% dot damage its the haste component as well. All the spreadsheets can't account for other talents that interact with the 3% haste and the 9% dot damage so, they just grab the % damage spriests do from dots and multiply it which = bad math. Technically after 4.0.6 over 45% of a fire mages dps comes from dots and 55% for boomkins. The bad math will always be bad to just justify those people giving it to themselves.

And on ej it was quoted from mmo champ mod gherkin. Aren't circles great
Anyway we have 2 locks and 3 shadow priests in our raid so occasionally in can lead to some great whispers as to why X should get DI over Y.

---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 02:25 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Dominian

The people who make those arguments about giving it to shadow priests are shadow priests. They don't know how the buffs work for other classes on multi target situations. As a balance druid I get over 4k dps from the buff because its not JUST the 9% dot damage its the haste component as well. All the spreadsheets can't account for other talents that interact with the 3% haste and the 9% dot damage so, they just grab the % damage spriests do from dots and multiply it which = bad math. Technically after 4.0.6 over 45% of a fire mages dps comes from dots and 55% for boomkins. The bad math will always be bad to just justify those people giving it to themselves.

Shadow Priests get ~80% of their damage from dots so I fail to see your logic as to why you are a better fit for DI. Oh and yes sims CAN simulate and predict how the 3% haste interacts with skills and talents.

Unfortunately it means that Dark Intent will be nerfed. They will change it to where the warlock will get the DoT damage buff and 3% haste buff and the other person will only get the 3% haste buff or something along those lines.

The people who make those arguments about giving it to shadow priests are shadow priests. They don't know how the buffs work for other classes on multi target situations. As a balance druid I get over 4k dps from the buff because its not JUST the 9% dot damage its the haste component as well. All the spreadsheets can't account for other talents that interact with the 3% haste and the 9% dot damage so, they just grab the % damage spriests do from dots and multiply it which = bad math. Technically after 4.0.6 over 45% of a fire mages dps comes from dots and 55% for boomkins. The bad math will always be bad to just justify those people giving it to themselves.

Someones mad that they don't get Dark Intent in raid....

"Its hard to tank!"
"....Yeah, maybe in the first 5 seconds... if you don't have a hunter... or a rogue... or competent dps.... maybe...."

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

Conjure refreshment now applies a debuff that does 30,000 shadow damage over 10 seconds to anyone, friend or foe, within 30 yards. "Vendor's Vengeance" is not dispellable.

Simulation is just that. Sometimes they are wrong, and sometimes they can be fed wrong data to make it irrelevant.

Also - BiS full t11 etc means very few can actually use those numbers as a quotable reason. In the end it will likely be of most benefit to the class with the highest pure dps on the charts with a substantial benefit from haste and DoT's. Say your shadowpriest is doing 10k dps and your boomkin is pulling 20k, boomkin will certainly be better etc. Is your entire raid in BiS gear, and pulling 100% possible dps cause that is the only time that sim actually will work? Also raid buffs/boss debuffs and mechanics alter it further etc.

I wanted to get thoughts on this point from the community. I am part of a 25 man guild which has cleared most of the 25 man normal raid content and should be starting on heroic soon. Before 4.06 I used to be around 4-7 on DPS list under the locks and Hunters in ranged and some mages. We raid with 3-4 Warlocks so I get Dark Intent in most raid encounters. After 4.06 on our first 4 boss kills in Blackwing Descent, I was 2nd on Magmaw, and Omnicron under an Affliction lock and was no 1 on Atremedies, Chimeron and Malorick.

Looks like our DPS has gone up significantly in 4.06 to a point where the community and other classes may soon start shouting that we are OP and need a Nerf, along with all that the pure vs hybrid crap discussion. The point I wanted to make is how much of this extra DPS is due to the additional benefit we get from Dark Intent and how much is from the buff we got in 4.06?

In some of the 10 man encounters I did after 4.06 where I did not have Dark Intent I found my DPS very comparable to the other classes and not high at all. I would like to get the thoughts of other shadow priests on this thread where in we can make Blizz development team aware that if they feel our DPS is too high they should look at changing the way Dark Intent works and not at reducing our damage as our DPS on its own is now comparable with other classes but the benefit from Dark Intent is boosting us up. Its my estimate that DI now adds around 2-3K DPS to our damage.

Please give your thoughts.

Argaloth (most other fights SPs get even better), 2xSP with no DI, pretty much topped (260+ ilvl on both). Got outdpsed by the top one by 1k dps, he had no DI I had double DI (for haste soft cap for destruction locks, not like you need rdps for Argaloth, so about 1k dps higher for me than normal) and better gear and I didn't make mistakes. 25k for SP, 24 for me, a ret (who stood still behind boss all fight) and SP. I did have quite a bit of bad RNG but still wouldn't have been enough to get to the SP and I have no idea if he did or didn't get RNGed the wrong way. As an idea everyone else was ~23k and we had 0 fury warrs which I would expect to be somewhere between the top SP and me.

Fully expecting SPs and moonkins to top any multi target fight from now on.

---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 07:52 AM ----------

Originally Posted by ibprofin

Someones mad that they don't get Dark Intent in raid....

He's also pretty much spot on, little difference between SP or moonkin for single target and massively in favor of moonkins on dual target. Assuming they're both competent enough.

The people who make those arguments about giving it to shadow priests are shadow priests. They don't know how the buffs work for other classes on multi target situations. As a balance druid I get over 4k dps from the buff because its not JUST the 9% dot damage its the haste component as well. All the spreadsheets can't account for other talents that interact with the 3% haste and the 9% dot damage so, they just grab the % damage spriests do from dots and multiply it which = bad math. Technically after 4.0.6 over 45% of a fire mages dps comes from dots and 55% for boomkins. The bad math will always be bad to just justify those people giving it to themselves.

no , no and more no.
go read shadowpriest.com or elitistjerks.com , both have done the simcraft. Shadow is far and away the best target to have Dark Intent on. Boomkins are second. This is unquestionable. Whatever aoe situation your talking about a shadow priest would get equal benefit in comparison to a mage so I am not seeing your argument here. You can break it down to say hard Mode Maloriak , well the mage is going to living bomb and spread combustion while the shadow priest is going to VT/SWP each of the 5 swills in Dark phase. For the 1 outa 4 phases on 1 fight the mage MIGHT get equal benefit out of Dark intent on the adds, but I believe this is also false. Mages do not benefit nearly as much from haste as Shadow does. By giving the buff to a mage your increasing the least useful stat for them vs increasing the most useful stat for Shadow.

Now , if you are running 2 warlocks , a Boomer should be option #2 for a second Dark Intent.

The other end of the spectrum to this is putting Dark Intent on a resto druid, but again this is only useful at certain stages of the druids gearing. aka giving their WG an extra tick if they have yet to meet the haste % marker to get the extra tick.

to answer the OP , yes shadow is balanced around dark intent, but with the sheer difficulty of the rotation , and managing dots on more than one mob is the most complicated rotation of any dps class by a large margin. At current, skill level and knowledge plays a huge roll in your ability to dps. Personally I am fearful blizzard will nerf shadow because the crying is going to happen which we are all already aware of even though it technically isnt an issue. Rogues / Locks / boomkins / dks / mages / hunters(marks now) can all keep pace with us for the majority of fights that I have seen in the passed two nights of hard mode content.

---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 08:05 AM ----------

Originally Posted by dakalro

Argaloth (most other fights SPs get even better), 2xSP with no DI, pretty much topped (260+ ilvl on both). Got outdpsed by the top one by 1k dps, he had no DI I had double DI (for haste soft cap for destruction locks, not like you need rdps for Argaloth, so about 1k dps higher for me than normal) and better gear and I didn't make mistakes. 25k for SP, 24 for me, a ret (who stood still behind boss all fight) and SP. I did have quite a bit of bad RNG but still wouldn't have been enough to get to the SP and I have no idea if he did or didn't get RNGed the wrong way. As an idea everyone else was ~23k and we had 0 fury warrs which I would expect to be somewhere between the top SP and me.

Fully expecting SPs and moonkins to top any multi target fight from now on.

---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 07:52 AM ----------

He's also pretty much spot on, little difference between SP or moonkin for single target and massively in favor of moonkins on dual target. Assuming they're both competent enough.

You don't even know you cannot stack Dark Intents on yourself. you do not gain the haste from more than one. if your doing it for just the procs thats moronic and a dps loss overall. He is also not correct , there is NO situation a mage gains more benefit from Dark Intent, none , zero. It is also incorrect to say a Boomkin gains more benefit from dual target. With 2 targets a shadow priest has 5 dots up(3 on 1 , 2 on 1). The Boomkin has 2 on 1 , 2 on 1. I'm sure you can count. 5 dots rolling creates a higher chance to proc than 4 where I come from. Not saying a boomkin is a poor choice for DI , but it is not the #1 choice.