Hey guys, this is my first real post. I've wanted to do a build thread on this car, but haven't found time until now.
It's a '68 Square that I found here on the Samba just over a year ago. It had been sitting in a barn near Tupelo, MS for about 13 years. It was only about 5 hours away and looked solid in the pics, so I went and got it on Dec 7 of last year. It turned out to need a lot more work than I thought, but it's almost ready for a test drive. I had hoped to have it running before a year had passed, but that didn't happen.

Here it is ready to head back home:

It was freezing cold that day. It actually snowed a little. My hands must have shrunk from the cold because my wedding ring slipped off into the grass at some point. When I realized it, I had to stop and search for it for about an hour. I found it, thank goodness. You can't haul another project home and also lose a wedding ring in the same day. I probably wouldn't survive long enough to start working on the car.

I actually believed that I could clean the carbs, tune it up and have it running without much trouble. It didn't happen that way.
The alternate title to this thread could be "How to do everything wrong with your first VW". I've done a lot in the past year, and some of that stuff was wrong. I cover all that later on.

Here it is, back home in AL:

This was taken just before I started my quickie rebuild. As I was draining the old oil, my buddy showed up to watch and cause trouble. He really wanted to see it run, and I kinda did too, but we got in a rush and bad things started happening.
I cleaned the strainer and put fresh oil in it, then tried to start it using a gas can instead of the tank. It sputtered some, but didn't start. So we headed off to the FLAPS to get some things and more gas. Here is where things started to go down hill. I should have done more research, but I didn't.

I tried to get plugs, points, cap, rotor, etc. But all they had in stock was plugs - Autolite plugs. Yeah. I figured that those would be good enough to get it going, so I bought them. I'd order the other parts later. We bought 5 whole gallons of gas, picked up some Zaxby's, and headed home. I scarfed my chicken fingers and headed back out to begin the damage.
The first thing I did was pour all 5 gallons of gas into the fuel tank. It still didn't want to start, so I checked to see if gas was getting to the carbs. Nope. When I pulled the line off the tank, nothing came out. I pushed a screwdriver through the return port, through about an inch of gunk and finally found all that gas. "That sucks", I thought to myself. Back to trying to run it off the gas can. We were eager to hear it come to life, so I pressed on.
I started gapping the plugs so I could change them. You know, the #1 plug is kinda hard to get to, but I got the old one out ok. It's when you try to put it back in, that those sharp threads (unlike the Bosch and NGK plugs) on the Autolite plugs begin to chew up your cylinder head because you can't really see what you are doing.
When I felt it get tight, the bad kind of tight feeling, I stopped. But it was too late. The first 1.5 turns of that plug hole were so cleanly removed that you would have thought it came that way.

Here is where I started to work my way down to the head in hopes of fixing it, in situ:

You can see some of the tar-like goo that was covering the case.

At this point, I had to disappoint my friend by calling it quits. I had done enough already, I needed to regroup and come up with a new plan. I had done a little but of studying before I bought the car, so I knew that it would be much easier to fix that head if I pulled the engine out. I also know from experience, that if I do that I won't be able to leave things alone. I don't have that kind of control. A spark plug change will turn into a rebuild of everything. And that's what happened.

I moved it into the garage:

and within an hour or so, had the engine out:

I had only owned the car for about 24 hours at this point.

I'll cover more in another post, as my lunch break ended almost an hour ago.

Last edited by bkeith85 on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:01 pm; edited 2 times in total

Yep. I should have known better. I must've had my rose colored glasses on. At the time, I was helping my friend sell her late father's '62 Impala. It had been sitting for a couple of years, so I helped get it back into nice shape. The seller of the Square was going through the same thing. Somehow, I magically adopted the "sitting for a couple of years" part of the Impala and applied it to the VW.
It wasn't until I actually saw it that I realized is was last registered in 2000. That's what I get for not asking enough questions. But, I'm still happy,I think I got a good deal. The car is VERY solid and almost rust free. It has the typical hole under the battery, but that is it. One of the things I learned from the Samba was to buy the best body you can find, mechanicals are secondary. That is exactly what I got, as I have rebuilt or replaced everything mechanical in the last year.

Before I ramble on about the car again, I'll say a little something about who I am and how I ended up with an orange Type 3.
My name is Brandon and I do software testing. When I am not doing that, I like to rebuild things. Usually cars, but lately I have done some other stuff like a couple of lathes and a tricycle for my niece. I prefer to work on older stuff that has quality and character. Until about 10 years ago, I had always driven what most people consider to be old cars. Even when I stepped up to a pretty modern Mustang, with power everything, it was still 10 years old. Now it's a 30 year old car. I'd still rather drive it than my '05 GMC.

And that's part of how I ended up here. I've been driving a modern truck for 10 years now. It's really nice, but I don't love to drive it like I loved driving my other cars. I miss having something unique and fun to drive.
The other motivator is money. I drive an hour to work everyday and a year ago, it was killing me. It's just not economical to do that at 17 mpg. I know that an old VW isn't going to hit 40 mpg, but it's got to be better than what I get now.

I always told myself if I had to get an economy car, I'd get an old VW. I'm not an import guy, (well, asian imports) so modern economy cars are pretty much out for me. My Dad had several Beetles and drove them daily up until I was about 10 years old. I remember being able to just see over the rear bumper and look at the engine. It was fascinating to see so much of an engine and I think it is what started my obsession with mechanical things.

The only one that I really remember was an orange '71 Super Beetle. I rode to school in it, took trips in it, and even locked myself in the trunk once trying to imitate Herbie. We loved that car and hated to see it go, but my Dad needed something more modern for his drive to work. I don't think he was ever a VW nut; he just liked that they were affordable and simple enough that he could keep them running well.

I'll have to continue later. Lunch is over. Maybe I can finish the story before I leave today.

Ok, so I recently got tired of spending almost $500 a month on gas and started looking for a VW. I started with Beetles, but realized they were no longer as cheap as they were 20 years ago. I also wondered where I would put my kids and anything larger than a toothbrush. That's when I stumbled across the Type 3's. I had forgotten all about those. Back in the late 80's, before I could drive, I read every VW Trends and Hot VWs magazine I could find. I wanted a Ghia back then. Occasionally, they'd have some Type 3's in there. I hated them. I couldn't figure out why anyone would want one.
Well, times change and so do your views and ideas. Now, it's the other way around. I have no interest in T1's or T2's, and the more I learned about the T3's, the more I liked them. Especially the early body Squares. So, I started looking around for one and that's how I found The Samba.

I found a '68 that wasn't very far away. It had been painted orange and was converted to carbs. It had a manual trans too, which was exactly what I wanted. The purists would turn their noses up at that combination, which made it more affordable. The orange reminded me of that Super Beetle I grew up with and the fact that it was a '68 made it even better. My first car was a '68 Chevy II and I wish I had never gotten rid of it. I have a thing for cars built in 1968. It was a weird year for cars, so they end up having oddball parts and details that make them unique.
The best part was that I'd get to haul my kids around in an orange VW just like parents did. Well, unless I give in and repaint it the Savannah Beige it was originally.

And that's how I ended up owning my first VW.
So, with the cheesy part out of the way, I can get back to car stuff.
My next post will probably cover the transmission rebuild fiasco...

So, I'm about 90 minutes from you.
I remember that car from the classifieds; it was in there when I was looking for my Square. I was looking for a daily driver, so I ended up going to Pensacola, but that 68 was tempting. Glad it's on the road again!_________________71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback

Well Donnie, it's not on the road yet, but I think it is really close. I have a few more things to take care of, then I can assemble the engine and get some new tires.
I wanted a DD also, but I didn't realize it would take a year or so to get there.

I may post some of the original pics I got from the seller when I get a chance. Body and interior wise, its in great shape. A lot of the rubber is dry and brittle, but I am amazed at how little rust there is.

Here's an interesting piece of the car's history:
The original owner bought it from Dahlke Bros. VW in Tuscaloosa, AL in Jan. 1968. He later sold it to his neighbor, who was the last registered owner. At some point, that dealership changed hands and became Paul Bryant VW. I have an old typed letter from Paul Bryant VW, suggesting the previous owner should come in for service. I googled it, and around 1969 "The Bear" started selling Volkswagens! Even though I am an Auburn fan, I thought that was kinda cool. My Dad is a big Alabama fan, so I gave him a copy of that letter for his collection.

I do enjoy the fact that someone in the past painted the car orange. I'll restore the original Dahlke Bros. VW tag frame when I get a chance. The blue background will go nicely with the orange paint.

I doubt folks outside of AL or at least the southeast will find that as interesting as I did.

I found a guy near Ashland who had a bunch of old cars and had acquired a couple Type 3s. I know one is a Fastback, but can't remember if the other one was too. He had both early and late body styles. I got an under dash AC unit from him for $100. I'll have to go through it, but I have already sourced the blower motor and the evaporator.
I also got a few things off a '69 fastback at the Pull-A-Part off I-65 near Tarrant. I bet it's stripped now.

I have a lot of family in Birmingham, so I am up there occasionally.

I have noticed that there are a few T3 owners from AL. Since I've only seen 3-4 in person, there can't be many on the road in the entire state

I'm in St Clair county, about 30 miles east of Bham. I've been to that Pull-A-Part for other stuff, never knew they had any VW stuff there.

Did your car have A/C previously?

Definitely not many T3's around here, though I do often run into folks who tell me about the one they (or a family member) used to have. Every time I stop somewhere I have somebody ask about it._________________71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback

After I got the engine out, I started looking at other things. The transmission was covered in thick black goo.

It looked like it had been leaking out of every seal for years. I wanted this car to be dependable, so I thought rebuilding the trans would be a good idea. I did a quick search here and somehow zeroed in on one guy (who what must have been suffering from dementia) telling everyone that these transmissions are "easy" to rebuild. Of course, I did no further research and began removing the transaxle.

Just to be clear, I didn't just fall off a turnip truck and decide that I could handle this job using a few old screwdrivers and a tack hammer from Mama's junk drawer. I've built a few transmissions, both auto and manual; engines, transfer cases and installed R&P sets. But those were mostly from older domestic cars and trucks. And actually, it is a fairly simple transmission. Rebuilding it would also be simple if you have all of those expensive tools, or if you have an extra transmission case to make a jig out of. I had neither of those.

I should have known something was up when I couldn't easily find a rebuild kit, you know, a collection of all the typical wear items and a set of all new bearings, conveniently packaged and readily available. I did find something eventually. Long Enterprises sells a "rebuild kit" that is a set of gaskets, a bearing, and new synchros. I think they put it together to punish noobs like me, as I later found everything separately for a fraction of what I paid. Ok, fine. Lesson learned.

I also got their rebuild DVD, not expecting it to be just a bunch of still shots of the process. But after watching a YouTube rebuild video that started out with the guy beating the transmission apart with a hammer, I decided that the picture DVD was the right way to go. And actually, it did help a lot.

Now about those special tools...

I had the parts, I saw the pictures, then realized I really did need that jig. Thanks goodness I didn't need that funky socket for the pinion nut, I'd have had no choice on that one. But after looking at that jig, and figuring out what I needed to do, I decided to build one. I found a chunk of aluminum, took some measurements, and started boring some holes:

I made some standoffs with threaded ends. Don't tell anyone, but the threads are SAE, not metric. Shhhh.

Guys who have done this before will notice that I messed up. I didn't realize it until I had made it to this point:

I could have fixed my jig, but I was tired of messing with the transmission and really wanted to finish it. I just eyeballed it, and called it good. We'll soon find out if it works or eats itself. I doubt the world will end.

Nonetheless, I was glad I pulled it apart. It was filthy. It also had a bunch of water in it, I guess. If you don't believe it gets cold in Alabama, tell it to the chunks of ice that came out of the final drive area:

I stared at that thick, milky-looking, solid below the ring gear for 20 minutes trying to figure out if it was part of the case or not.

And no, I did not adjust backlash or bearing preload at the differential. One look at that funky pinion depth tool and I decided that if I wanted new gears, they would come with a rebuilt trans. I just carefully put it all back together with the original shims. Again, it may work fine, or it may lock up going down the road. I've experienced both, so I should have no problems identifying either situation.

I did build one other tool, to keep me from having to beat it with a hammer:

Ok, kids! Who can find the parts that don't belong in this picture:

With paint:

And finished:

Lessons learned (other than those previously mentioned)-

Replacement parts are garbage and don't fit even if they are supposed to. I bought a hockey stick bushing and seal that wasn't even close. It just fell out of the nose cone. If I remember right, I just put the new seal in my original outer bushing, then machined a new inner bushing.

I probably could have left the transmission together and been fine. It turns out, that all that black goo was old undercoating. It was a bitch to get off. Experienced guys will probably see that, at most, I needed a new gasket for the nosecone. I once bought a HD 4 speed out of a 1-ton Ford truck for my old Bronco. The truck had no body, so the transmission was just sitting out in the rain for who knows how long. The shifter goes right into the top and there is no seal, so it was full of water. I drained the water out, filled it with ATF and just shook it around some. Well, as much as you can shake a 200 lb transmission. I refilled it with gear oil and put it in my Bronco. That was almost 20 years ago and it's still doing fine.
Anyway, I should have left this transmission alone. But, as you will see, I don't do very well when it comes to just leaving things be.

Oh, I just remembered, I have a ton of the big o-rings that seal the steel axle tube plates to the side covers. If anyone needs a few, I may put an add in the classifieds. I also have a bunch of axle bearing oil slingers if needed.

I'm in St Clair county, about 30 miles east of Bham. I've been to that Pull-A-Part for other stuff, never knew they had any VW stuff there.

I got lucky and saw it on their site. I think it had been there a couple days. I got a few little things. It still had the engine and manual trans. I didn't need either one, but I felt the need to hoard stuff. I kinda wanted the IRS subframe and trans just in case I wanted to change mine, but I ran out of time and had to go. It was crusty, but fairly complete.

Donnie wrote:

Did your car have A/C previously?

No, but you know how it is. I want to drive this thing year round, so I went ahead and grabbed that AC unit in case I can't bear it in the summertime. The rest of the system can be all new parts, but that piece isn't easy or cheap to find.

Donnie wrote:

Definitely not many T3's around here, though I do often run into folks who tell me about the one they (or a family member) used to have. Every time I stop somewhere I have somebody ask about it.

I bet. I kinda miss that. With all my previous cars, I had people always asking about them. It's cool at first, then annoying, then you just get used to it. Now, I can get gas or stop at a traffic light and not hear "I used to have one just like it. You wanna sell it?". Most likely, if I look over, that guy DOES have a truck just like mine. It's kinda sad.

I went to the big VW show in Montgomery back in July and there were 3 type 3's. A '69 fasty that was pretty much a twin to my car, another fastback and I think a late notch. Maybe they were both notchbacks. I can't find my pics to verify. Next year, I can be the one squareback guy. I've found several other events in this area and want to check them out. I've never cared much for entering shows and such, but for some reason I want to with this car. I may be getting addicted.

Anyway, I should have left this transmission alone. But, as you will see, I don't do very well when it comes to just leaving things be.

Whatever this affliction is called - you'll find a lot of company here. I take almost everything apart. I blame a childhood of LEGO™.

One day I realized that I can look at a pile of bolts and identify length, thread pitch and its location of use on the car. I've done this in front of people who are not 'car people' and they look at me like I've just told them something way too personal.

I once relied on a Previous Owner - Well, he gave me the 65 squareback for free and he was a detective - Said the transmission went out while his sister was driving, so he parked it 15 years prior. So, first thing I do is order a rebuilt transmission. while I tore down the engine and did a heads up rebuild.

Get the transmission, it's got the wrong axles and tubes, so I send it back, wait, get it back. Go to remove the old transmission, the shift coupler was disintegrated. The transmission was absolutely fine, the coupler went out, and they just assumed transmission, and I just assumed he knew what he was talking about. I never made that mistake again though..._________________Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

My 71 had A/C installed by a VW dealer in 1974, but it had been removed before I got the car. Don't forget, you'll need a 2-groove fan pulley and you'll have to put 2 holes in the fan shroud for the belt to go through.

The refrigerant lines were screwed to the underside of the floor from back to front, so I had to stop up about a dozen screw holes._________________71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback

I once relied on a Previous Owner - Well, he gave me the 65 squareback for free and he was a detective - Said the transmission went out while his sister was driving, so he parked it 15 years prior. So, first thing I do is order a rebuilt transmission. while I tore down the engine and did a heads up rebuild.

Get the transmission, it's got the wrong axles and tubes, so I send it back, wait, get it back. Go to remove the old transmission, the shift coupler was disintegrated. The transmission was absolutely fine, the coupler went out, and they just assumed transmission, and I just assumed he knew what he was talking about. I never made that mistake again though...

I feel your pain. I too learned that lesson, and now I never order something until I feel certain I really need it.

Joined: May 02, 2003Posts: 21377Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject:

Donnie strickland wrote:

My 71 had A/C installed by a VW dealer in 1974, but it had been removed before I got the car. Don't forget, you'll need a 2-groove fan pulley and you'll have to put 2 holes in the fan shroud for the belt to go through.

The refrigerant lines were screwed to the underside of the floor from back to front, so I had to stop up about a dozen screw holes.

No, you'll need the add-on pulley and the special bolt. _________________Give A Pal a Hand!
www.happytrailsfarm.org

vwfye wrote:

Oh the joy of custom things...

RIPRW

"I'm very fond of long walks, especially when taken by those who annoy me."- Fred Allen

Well, I'm in St Clair county too, but I'm about 6 miles west of Port Huron.

OP, would the items that don't belong happen to be the type 4 valve covers?

Looks good, lots of OCD running strong with this build.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

I noticed those when I posted the picture. I wasn't going to mention anything about that phase of the project until I was actually working on it, but...

I do intend to "ruin" it by swapping in a T4 engine. My apologies to the purists. But, I have valid reasons for doing so. Here's a brief outline of what I want and why:
My plan was to rebuild the stock 1600, upgrade to an alternator, add full flow oiling, and A/C. Since I wanted to drive this everyday, dependability and economy are the main concerns. The only experience I have with generators was having one converted to 12V for a '49 Ford pickup. I do know that they only put out about 30 amps max. Honestly, I probably don't need any more than that if I keep the stereo reasonable. But, if I can get a small, modern alternator that puts out twice the amperage, maybe I could run it at a slower speed and put less drag on the engine. Bottom line is, I've read of many happy folks who have switched and recommend it.

Air conditioning is pretty much mandatory in Alabama. I want to haul my kids around with me, and at their age, they don't need to be hot and sweaty all the time. A/C was an afterthought on these engines and even though I've heard they worked ok, I've heard many more stories about how it will destroy the engine in no time. I don't want to have to rebuild the engine every year or so.

Next, the oil filter. This was mandatory. An engine without proper oil filtration is 40's technology. Sure, I could change it more often, but I'll be putting 100 miles a day on it, so that would mean changing it once or twice a month.
I read all the posts about the full flow mod on a Type 3 using the typical method and a bunch of 90 deg. fittings. I didn't like all those sharp turns. It probably works fine, lots of people do it that way. Plus, it's not like the oil galleries in the case have nice sweeping turns. But, it bothered me, so I looked into running the lines out the side of the case. I had only seen where Brothers Machine did this mod, so I called them. Their prices were reasonable, but I also need a line bore and I still had to ship it across the country. That was going to run me about $500 I think. At the time, I felt that was too much. And I still kinda think spending a ton of money and still having a single relief, mag case is a shame.

Then, I discovered the Type 4 engine. I like the aluminum case and now durable it typically is (I now question this). It comes with an oil filter already. I don't have to run hoses everywhere or find a place to mount it. They came from the factory with A/C. Well, it was an option, but I like to think that VW took that into consideration when designing the engine. Just humor me on that one. They also come with an alternator already. I had found a stock VW engine, designed exactly for my needs, and it practically drops right in? Sign me up!

Yeah, they cost more. But when I did a cost estimate, they weren't that far apart - to build engine with all the same qualities. One of the deciding factors was knowing that the 1600 was the largest, most powerful engine built from that basic design. Essentially maxed out, by VW's standards. I know people push them waaaay further, but what is the lifespan of a 2.0L or bigger Type 1-3 engine? If I went with a 1700, I'd have the smallest displacement for the Type 4 design. It would probably be bulletproof.

That is my current plan, to build a nice stock 1700 with A/C. But, that is not going to happen right away. When I started collecting parts, I found out that no one in my area will do VW machine work. Well, there is one guy. I asked how much to line bore my case, and he told me $250. He runs a VW resto shop. He seems like a great guy, but I am not one of those guys who can just give him a blank check and tell him to have at it. That's where the allure of the Type 4 really got me thinking. So many guys said they rarely need a line bore and many reuse the stock pistons and cylinders. So, I started collecting engines. I got screwed on the first one; nothing usable. Paid a lot for another one, that was in pieces, but had a lot of new stuff. Plus, I feel like I helped the guy out. Then, I found the best one of all, a complete, possibly running 1800 for cheap. I should have waited. But, I have one of every size now.

Anyway, at one point, I was just trying to get an engine together. Either the 1600, or one of the T4's. I finally found a guy who did machine work in his spare time, so I took him my case. He had it for a month or so. During that time, I kept trying to get a type 4 together. Whichever could be finished first was the winner. That turned out to be the 1600. When the first two sets of T4 heads I got turned out to be garbage and the guy finished my case work, the plan changed.

I still want to do the T4 engine. But, I also want to drive this car. So, for now, I am building the stock 1600. It's cheaper, and I don't have to figure out a carb setup or re-wire for the alternator, etc. Also, I get to set a baseline. I didn't like that I would never have gotten to drive it in it's original form (well, close to it anyway). So, I am going to put the 1600 together just as I got it. That means a generator, stock oil strainer, and no A/C. That way, I can drive it and fix other things while I take my time building a T4 engine. If I ever have a mental breakdown and decide to sell it, the buyer will get a low mileage stock engine to install if he so desires.

Did I say this was the brief version? Oh well, I tend to ramble. It's a WELL documented tendency.