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I hearby declare Alex Jones “beyond doubtful”

I’m all for questioning and skepticism but A.J. is a wackaloon (and I don’t use that term often so when I do, YOU KNOW you should seriously consider that he is a sick bastard). I think the Sandy Hook thing took me over the edge with Jones. I hate to give him attention, but you know, this is as Doubtful as it gets. No wait…

We know very little detail about Monday morning’s mass shooting at the Washington Navy Yard: We know more than four people were shot dead (possibly even six dead and up to 12 injured) by a gunman holding a double-barreled shotgun, who was himself shot dead. We know there are potentially two more gunmen at large and no motives or identities have been confirmed.

Ever resourceful, our nation’s reliable conspiracy theory machine has already been able to do much with this frail skeleton of information.

“It may be real crazies,” Jones at least admitted, “but look at the timing. Obama rolling out a national campaign against guns yesterday, and then this happens,” he said.

Staging, actors, government plots, hidden agendas. PUH-LEEZE. One, you give the government WAY too much credit Alex, and two, unless you are a full-out faker, how do you even get up in the morning when the whole world is this out of control on purpose? I’m sure there is three, four, five and six but I have better things to do than waste my time on this fiction. So while I bite my tongue right now regarding gun control AGAIN (what’s this like the 4th time, I’ve lost track) I’ve made a decision about DN content.

A moratorium on Alex Jones! Yes. Unless the circumstances are extreme (like he gets arrested or dies), Alex Jones joins the list I now dub…

TOO ASININE FOR INCLUSION ON DOUBTFUL NEWS – BEYOND DOUBTFUL

Natural News

Pat Robertson

Before It’s News

The Daily Mail (U.K.)

Alex Jones

You can hereby assume that nothing the above ever writes/says/claims/endorses is verified or legitimate. It’s a safe bet. Play the odds, and don’t listen to them. This, I feel, was beyond due.

I have a feeling that list should be a lot bigger. But I imagine it will grow with time.

Joel Peterson

September 16, 2013 at 8:38 PM

It would be news if Alex Jones didn’t think some act of violence was a false flag.

spookyparadigm

September 16, 2013 at 9:22 PM

Oh, you’re gonna have fun if you listen to the ads on the podcast I’ve recently mentioned …

drwfishesman

September 16, 2013 at 9:25 PM

@ Joel…I can see the Onion headline now: Alex Jones to listeners, “It looks like the work of a lone and disturbed young man.” as he mourns SILENTLY for the victims and their families.

YetAnoutherBrian

September 16, 2013 at 9:39 PM

His Podcast is unlistenable. Nothing but adds for survivalist, and teasers about how he is going to tell us about Obama plan for rounding everyone up into death camps. If unlistenable is not a word it should be when referring to AJ’s podcast.

My dad called this morning and asked me to buy 8 pounds of gun powder. He reloads his own ammo and when ever a mass shooting occurs he feels the need to stock up since the “Liberals are Coming for your Guns” I should have know something happened today.

About 2 months ago I was debating an old friend about gun control on Facebook. I tried citing facts about why his stance was wrong. He was getting more and more frustrated and posting wackier and wackier links. Finally he links to Alex Jones exposing a plan by Pelosi to take all of our guns and then establish a reptilian police state or something I don’t know I lost interest at that point. I honestly could not find the Unfriend option fast enough.

Really, it’s fine to get mad at AJ, it’s even fun. I think you should ignore him, but not because he’s so outrageous and he’s holding back gun control.

I know you didn’t say that he was, but you mentioned it as if he was related to it. He’s really not though. Not only is he unrepresentative of the gun movement, the real problem getting gun control passed in the US is not, strangely, the pro-gun NRA.

The truth is, in the US, 90% of the population favors some modest form of federal gun control. That’s where the spectrum starts. So why isn’t there any modest gun control, then?

The real problem with gun control isn’t Alex, it’s that the 90% are tepid about gun control. Almost none of them makes that the deciding factor in whether to vote for a candidate or not. Anti gun control proponents, on the other hand, cite is as a deciding factor.

But, also, more importantly, gun control advocates show up to vote.

In the US, the real problem is that 80% of the people, give or take depending on the election, don’t vote at all.

Sure, ignore Alex, he’s just a side show anyway. The real problem isn’t Alex, it’s apathy.

Looking at America from the UK, I see that some of your citizens are similar to some of ours. They have grievances and jealousies, they seek revenge or loose their temper. The difference is, your people have much easier access to firearms and ammunition. Will this ever change?

spookyparadigm

September 17, 2013 at 7:24 AM

Neko, is it not likely that one of the reasons gun proponents are so vehement is that many of them listen to a constant barrage of apocalyptic conspiracy theories of the sort Brian mentions above?

One Eyed Jack

September 17, 2013 at 8:37 AM

Neko writes:

So why isn’t there any modest gun control, then?

What country to do you live in? The US has gun control: wait lists, weapon restrictions, carry permits, etc. It’s a system full of holes and not as restrictive as some people would like, but I would say it’s the very definition of “modest gun control”.

Chris Howard

September 17, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Man, Alex Jones really packs ’em in!

You sure you wouldn’t rather dedicate a segment of Doubtful to exposing the nefarious machinations of The Jonestown Potentate?

It seems to me AJ can cause a lot of damage, by spreading misinformation, no?

The segment can specifically point out how ugly, vapid, and self-serving these people are.

Just a thought.

Chris Howard

September 17, 2013 at 10:37 AM

@ Michael

“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing – after they’ve tried everything else.”-Winston Churchill (your homeboy) 😉

As a country, insofar as our policy is concerned, there is what we want to believe, and the reality of anygiven situation.

We quote the “facts” and statistics that support our ignorant, proud, opinions, and ignore the rest. In short, we’re an exceedingly stuborn, and willfully ignorant people, and we’re proud of it!

The only problem is that reality has a funny way of sneaking up on you, and biting you in the ass. Unfortunately, my countrymen seem to value their delusional worldviews over the truth.

“Personal Freedom” has become a knee-jerk rationale for not addressing a slew of societal ills. The individual reigns supreme, at the cost of everything else.

So, in answer to your question, we will tenaciously cling to our feel-good-philosophy-lights, until some tragedy personally effects each and every selfish, closed minded, outraged, apathetic sod in the country. Because without empathy, and compassion, ones sense of community and its overall well-being becomes sociopathic (a disorder that’s on the rise in the US).

Our “right” to shoot beer cans is greater than another’s right to live. Until someone we know, and love, dies from a gunshot, then we get angry, and scream “Why didn’t anyone do anything!”

There’s a proud hypocracy here, and the idolizing of gun culture is, at some point, going to bite us in our ass. Until then nothing will change.

Hey, let’s relax with a video:link to youtube.com Oops, that’s David Icke featured with his lunatic voice, not Alex Jones. I get my conspiracy peeps confused, but as they’re similar enough, maybe you could add David Icke to that list.

neko

September 17, 2013 at 10:28 PM

Wow, I don’t want to answer too many more of these. I didn’t get a package I was expecting today and spent the whole time in web forms… really quick then:

@Mach: you are correct, I went for the low, off-year number, because I’m lazy. However, in the US, we don’t vote by plebiscite, we elect representatives. So there is no election where a policy choice is not in question anymore than any other time. Actually, the president is for gun control, so if his election percentages swung congress, we’d have gun control. It’s the two effects: people who want stronger gun control don’t show up in the same numbers, and that policy isn’t generally their deciding vote on the issue. I’ll admit, it was rhetorical, and thanks for clarifying that, your post was better than mine by far.

@One Eyed Jack: Not sure how to answer you. I guess you are right, it is the most modest of any country I know. In most countries, though, those things wouldn’t be considered “gun control”. They would be considered registration… only in the US do people consider registration “regulation”. It’s unique, and entirely modest. I agree. But I don’t consider it “control”.

Just to be clear too, the laws are such a patchwork… if you live in PA, or Mass., it’s like different countries anyway for firearms. So, well, I live in the US, and I would just say it qualifies as “extremely modest”. Yes, fanatically, zealously modest. No question.

trustnoone

September 18, 2013 at 10:32 AM

It would seem this post is intended to ‘preach to the choir’ as they say, because it affirms its opinions with wording only those who are already nonbelievers would accept without issue. While I understand how hard some of these claims can be to rationally discuss and debunk, I really find doing so has been the most effective way to rescue people who are drawn to and pulled into Jones’ world of terror and paranoia (and others like it). That is, pointing to the myriad of flaws in the theories, logic, context and references which are found in Jones’ team’s narratives, not straining our credulity by acting like no government could *ever* possibly stage terror for its own political benefit (“PUHLEEZE”–many can be historically proven to have done just that) or that someone who is opposed to the current power structure ‘wouldn’t be able to get out of bed’, when actually, we do when we think we can create positive change in the world to fight it (something Jones actions do not appear to have done).

When I was an early teen I was into his “documentaries” and his show. He appealed to my anti-authoritarianism and ran in the same vein as my love for the “paranormal” and mysterious. But after growing older and striving to become more rationally minded and critical as well as moving way beyond his paleoconservative politics into anarchism, I grew disgusted with him.

I think the worst and most deceptive thing about him is how he makes false claims and then repeats them ad nauseum until they get a lot of attention. But if you actually take the time to look into the specifics of so many of them, you find they are misconstrued, exaggerated, overblown or baseless. Any casual listener who hears him make these claims while sounding absolutely sure and convinced of it (while he spouts of how “THIS IS ALL DOCUMENTED PEOPLE!!!”) is sure to wonder “Wow, that’s on the record?

He says they have ‘admitted to putting cancer viruses in the vaccines’ or something. But if they actually take the time to research these claims (5 minutes of strenuous Google searching for example), they find that the truth of the matter is much more softcore, such as “in the original Polio vaccines from 1955 to 1961 (and up to 1980 potentially in other world countries) there is research that shows it was contaminated by the SV40 virus which could have been responsible for some detrimental health effects subsequently”. The difference between those claims and their implications are obvious. Other claims include him saying definitively that “George Washington grew and smoked marijuana”. The truth, however, is that there is a diary entry by George Washington of him separating his male and female cannabis plants without a specific reason given, almost as a sort of experiment. And while it is true that one has to separate female plants to grow marijuana, there is no proof to say such a claim. “Dyncorp runs global child sex trafficking rings”. Truth: ‘Several men contracted to DynCorp did engage in human trafficking while working in Bosnia, selling women and girls as young as 12 to each other and smuggling them into places of prostitution. Dyncorp’s response to the problem was to ignore it and sweep it under the rug. Their activities were exposed by two other DynCorp employees. And again, in a May 2009 meeting interior minister Hanif Atmar expressed deep concerns that lives could be in danger if news leaked that foreign police trainers working for US commercial contractor DynCorp hired “dancing boys” to perform for them.’ Again very disturbing, but yet very different stories. Or, more recently, his site claimed that black-hatted guys at the Boston bombing were “Craft International mercenaries”, but as I recall they were actually a WMDCST (Weapons of Mass Destruction Civil Support Team). It literally goes on and on an on to the point where, as this post points out: Alex Jones has no credibility whatsoever.

I feel its dangerous because people who think he’s just a loon may think that there is *no truth at all* to some of these matters without knowing that there are actual things behind them that could be important considerations for discussion, if one gets past the worldview presented as fact.

Personally, I still check the site occasionally to get in touch with a few stories I might not otherwise see, but I most definitely take a hard look at the source information for myself.

Thanks for your comments. The purpose of this site is to give people an alternate view of the news they might not think about. I’m afraid that most of the followers of Alex Jones would not question his authority but just swallow the nonsense. That is dangerous. And, thinking of the audience, the public, sometimes we have to skip the nuance because people aren’t going to get that. We have to call a loon a loon. And make it clear he is a harmful one. Mind you, we don’t declare “loons” lightly. But he is obfuscating thinking in America. He’s kind of a menace.

According to Alex Jones everything is a false flag conspircy. Noe evidence required.

neko

September 18, 2013 at 2:30 PM

@spooky :

sorry I missed your comment, saw it just now.

It’s just my personal opinion, but I’ve always thought the tendency of people to focus on the demagogues in general ( not sure if anyone really “follows” Alex Jones ) is misleading.

Given the proverbial time machine, I would not kill Hitler. I’ve thought the universal belief that would make things better backwards. His ideas weren’t original, they were swirling around beer halls. He was dangerous because two nations were already sympathetic and aching to hear what they already believed, not because he planted those ideas. It absolves the mob too much, for me.

I think AJ followers, if he has them, are vehement because they are vehement.

Are his ideas based in racism, jingoism, paranoia and so on? Sure. Might he be dangerous? Sure. But he’s just an individual. If people have similar ideas, it most likely isn’t because of anything he said.

I’m not fond of this concept of “idea contamination”. As I’ve gotten older, I realize people don’t work that way, in fact I see it the other way around. Alex J. is a symptom, he’s not the problem, if there is one. And, again, the polls bear me out on this. Gun control fails to make headway because the general consensus on the subject in the US is soft, and the opposition is thoroughly committed.

If you ask me, there is no need to explain that via AJ. If you use a car or a gun your whole life, it’s something real to you. If you don’t, it’s not. To someone who’s never driven a car, it’s a loud, scary, stupid device driven by dangerous idiots, that takes the lives of kids everyday. It probably should be stopped, you suppose, or at least regulated more.

Maybe cars should be limited to buses, commercial trucks, and emergency vehicles. it would be more efficient, and cars are not, strictly speaking, required. It is not really surprising, though, that laws like that no longer are on the books.

I don’t have any need to attribute vehement opposition to any gun control to Alex Jones. Political weight is an emergent phenomenon of people’s beliefs, not something the clownish spokesman of the moment lends it.

Russell G.

September 18, 2013 at 7:19 PM

I agree with your decision to “ban” Alex. He’s been making all kinds of far out claims, predictions, and allegations for years, and his histrionic manner doesn’t help his arguments. You might be surprised how many Libertarian/RW sites have imposed similar bans against Alex, too. I’d add to your list: Joseph Mercola, Deepak Chopra, Ann Coulter, Debbie Schlussel, Melanie Phillips, Andy Schlafly/Conservapedia, Sylvia Browne, David Icke, David Duke, Michael Savage, anybody pushing “peak oil doom,” Ken Ham, Steve Quayle, Paul Ehrlich, the Phelps family, and that HIV-denying blogger whose name I have fortunately forgotten.

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