Wow, I didn't know that Jeff Saturday was THAT light. I would have guessed 300ish pounds.

He's been light his entire career. Like Raiola, for the last couple of years they've added some weight to his profile (295.. he was 285 for a lot of his career with the Colts), but again, even if it's honest, it's not good weight. Did he retire, or is he just a FA? He's not listed on the GB depth chart anymore.

Saturday has always been what everyone said Raiola was, good technician, good pass blocker, good reads, etc., but Saturday uses his hands much, much better than Raiola, and overall Saturday has been a much better player.

Saturday retired.

I think all the evidence shows what WJB is saying about Raiola being a bad player.

Saturday also had the benefit of Peyton Manning making calls at the line and fast release to help him to go along with his better hands and footwork. I think Saturday probably wouldn't be as highly regarded if he had played in a more conventional offense that used a normal running attack. He was still much better skilled than Raiola, but the Colts never got good push in the run game either. Raiola's size is a liability with how big DTs are today and a lot of them move better than Raiola to boot.

It's true that Saturday definitely had the benefit of both Manning and Rogers, both Qbs are more than capable of picking up the blitz and know how and where to get rid of the ball. That said, GBs game suffered with Saturday in the middle, much the same way that our OL has suffered for the last 10 years with Raiola in the middle.

How anyone can look at the body of evidence that is Raiola's career and determine that he was a good OC is beyond me.

February 18th, 2013, 6:27 pm

DJ-B

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2347

Re: Off-Season Moves

Agreed. He was (at his peak) at his best a middle of the road, underweight OC who excelled at Line Calls/Recognition (per coaches), which doesnt get you 1 yd on 3rd/4th & short or at the goal line which is where you win/lose games.

Whats everyone think about Adam "don't call me Pacman" Jones? He has managed to keep his nose clean in CIN for a few years now and Schwartz obviously knows him well. He played well on the outside in nickel packages even though he didn't start. I'd imagine his price should be pretty reasonable for his corner abilities and he does add a little to the return game too.

February 19th, 2013, 10:09 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

rao wrote:

Whats everyone think about Adam "don't call me Pacman" Jones? He has managed to keep his nose clean in CIN for a few years now and Schwartz obviously knows him well. He played well on the outside in nickel packages even though he didn't start. I'd imagine his price should be pretty reasonable for his corner abilities and he does add a little to the return game too.

I would like him, but only as a nickel. We're trying to get "bigger" and he certainly doesn't fit that role.

It pisses me off that we're trying to mimic Seattle's defense now, and Cam Chancelor is the piece that they're trying to find. He was M2 and my consensus "obvious" pick. Trumaine Johnson is someone that both M2 and I agreed on completely as well, and he would be amazing in our D and fit with our current plan.

I can't stand our upper management. They're killing this team. It really is like Millen part II, but slightly better. At least Mayhew doesn't live in Penn.

I've seen a lot of sites out there advocating us bringing in Woodson. First of all, we don't have the cap space for a move like that. We should have signed him 7 years ago when he was a free agent from the Raiders. He can still play but his skills are in decline and he'd cost too much. Same thing with Ed Reed (not mentioned in the article above but his name is out there in a lot of places). If we were one piece away from a championship, then I'd say bring in one of them for a year or two. But the defense we'd be fielding as of right now, even with one of them, couldn't beat a mid level college team.

I think we'll end up with the space to bring in 2-3 mid level free agents and re-sign a few of our guys but that's it, no big splashes.

We should bring back Hilliard, SLH, LoJack, Durant, Houston and Delmas. Also Hanson if he wants to play again. I realize some of these signings may be harder than others but those are the guys I think we realistically have a shot to keep and who we want back.

I think we'll be in the running to sign George Wilson. I'd prefer his former teammate Byrd, but he won't be hitting the market. He and Delmas should make a capable safety duo, but we'll need to draft someone around round 3. Delmas' contract should be incentive laden 3-4 year deal since we can't count on him and with Wilson being 31, the rookie could develop for a season or two before taking over a starting spot. For WR if we go the free agent route, rather than the 5-6 round pick which I'd be in favor of, I think we should look at Brian Hartline. While not really a field stretcher, I think he could be a capable #2 for us.

The article mentions Bradshaw and Nick Barnett as options for us and I'll say pass. We need to get younger at LB and need a speed back. I like Bradshaw but he'd be expensive and hasn't been healthy.

February 20th, 2013, 3:55 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

I'd love to bring in Woodson for his leadership and ability to teach and mentor our D backs, but only at $2.5 or less. GB cut him to save $3 mill, if his skills aren't worth $3 mill there, they aren't worth $3 milll here. And $2.5 is my top dollar for the guy. I'd really prefer to pay $2 or less.

This year’s version of the crop report has not yet been disclosed, in part because it still hasn’t been determined. But the indications are that the salary cap will increase more than expected.

As mentioned on Tuesday, a source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the cap will be at least $122 million. Which means it will be at least $1 million more than widely reported and believed.

So what’s the difference between $121 million and $122 million? Glad you asked. (Even if you didn’t.)

Apart from the obvious “32 teams times $1 million” calculation, increasing the cap by $1 million easily becomes a $5 million expenditure for a team. Since signing bonuses and other guaranteed payments are prorated, and because the salary cap never goes down, an extra million in cap space easily becomes another $5 million in current-year spending.

Which under the obvious “32 teams times $5 million” calculation becomes $160 million dollars.

So that’s why the cap being even only $1 million more than expected is a big deal. And there’s a chance it could be even more than $1 million more than expected.

_________________Jim Caldwell, on whether Jim Harbaugh is stealing his thunder: "Me? I don't have any thunder."

This year’s version of the crop report has not yet been disclosed, in part because it still hasn’t been determined. But the indications are that the salary cap will increase more than expected.

As mentioned on Tuesday, a source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the cap will be at least $122 million. Which means it will be at least $1 million more than widely reported and believed.

So what’s the difference between $121 million and $122 million? Glad you asked. (Even if you didn’t.)

Apart from the obvious “32 teams times $1 million” calculation, increasing the cap by $1 million easily becomes a $5 million expenditure for a team. Since signing bonuses and other guaranteed payments are prorated, and because the salary cap never goes down, an extra million in cap space easily becomes another $5 million in current-year spending.

Which under the obvious “32 teams times $5 million” calculation becomes $160 million dollars.

So that’s why the cap being even only $1 million more than expected is a big deal. And there’s a chance it could be even more than $1 million more than expected.

I don't agree with the "$1='s $5" comments in the article, but an extra mill nevertheless help us out a lot.

It looks like we should have around $12 million in total, if we can pick up $3 mill from Stafford. If not it's going to be around $9 mill.

I think we should seriously consider drafting Fisher and cutting Backus. That will save another $1-1.5 million.

Jackson was making about $2 mill per. I don't see why he wouldn't resign for the same. I really don't think he's done much to deserve more than that. We should be able to keep Durant and Houston. Houston made $4.5 last year. I think he's going to want at least that much and I think we should give it to him. We can't afford to replace both of our CBs this year. Durant made $3.5 and again, I think he's going to want at least that much, and I think we should give it to him. I don't mind replacing Levy, but I wouldn't want to see us have to replace both of our starting DEs, 2LBs, and 2CBs.

One DE, one LB, and one CB is much more palatable. That said, that's nearly our entire "cap space" (that's $10 million right there, and we need more to sign our rookies).

That's why I think this team is in such sorry shape. We can likely get Durant and Houston on somewhat of a discount if we sign them to three year + deals, and squeeze in another player, but that's about it for us this offseason, which is why I can't see us fielding a good team in 2013.

February 20th, 2013, 5:22 pm

inheritedlionsfan

Team MVP

Joined: January 13th, 2006, 4:18 amPosts: 3461Location: Maryland

Re: Off-Season Moves

I think Stafford could give us more than $3M in room. Last year Calvin cleared about $10M in space and I'd have to think that Matt would be able to give us between $5-$9M of relief for this season. I know we have to factor in that he has 2 years left on his deal and he has a lot of money due to him over those two years, but I think we can work something out that will be beneficial to all parties. It just kills me that Matt got 6 years and 72 million while just two years later, Cam got 4 years 22 million.

I think you're pretty close with the values you've got on Houston, Durant and Jackson for new contracts. Just throwing out some number ideas.... 3 year $10M deal for Durant, 3 year $12M for Houston and 2 years $5M for Jackson with cap hits of about $2M, $3.5M and $2M respectively for this season.

February 20th, 2013, 6:32 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

inheritedlionsfan wrote:

I think Stafford could give us more than $3M in room. Last year Calvin cleared about $10M in space and I'd have to think that Matt would be able to give us between $5-$9M of relief for this season. I know we have to factor in that he has 2 years left on his deal and he has a lot of money due to him over those two years, but I think we can work something out that will be beneficial to all parties. It just kills me that Matt got 6 years and 72 million while just two years later, Cam got 4 years 22 million.

I think you're pretty close with the values you've got on Houston, Durant and Jackson for new contracts. Just throwing out some number ideas.... 3 year $10M deal for Durant, 3 year $12M for Houston and 2 years $5M for Jackson with cap hits of about $2M, $3.5M and $2M respectively for this season.

Inherited... The problem is, we've restructured Stafford so many times already that the majority of his remaining $41 million is already guaranteed. There really isn't much to free up. If we extend him 7 years or something ridiculous we may be able to get into the $7-9 range, but without that it's going to be tough to even get into the $5 mill range.

Edit to add:IF we want to push most of his salary this year to guaranteed money next year, AND plan on offing Suh next year it becomes feasible to free up around $7-9 million, but we'll be paying him literally around $27 million in 2014.

February 20th, 2013, 6:51 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2451

Re: Off-Season Moves

Stafford can give the Lions more relief with a contract that averages $14-15 million a year over six years. He's already guaranteed $40 million so he will likely look to get that up to at least $60 million. To make it easily divisible by six we'll say $42 million in a signing bonus that he will pocket right away and be spread out over those six years at $7 million a year, the rest would be roster and/or incentive bonuses. The bigger increase this year would be achieved by having Stafford take the league minimum base salary at just under $600,000 and the $7 million signing bonus hit. That would be roughly $12 million in savings, but it might be $9 million because I think they have to count the $3 million from his original signing bonus. Not absolutely positive on all the little intricacies of how every thing works.

The unfortunate thing I've found in my attempts to create cap space is that Mayhew has made it so Suh can't be moved before June 1st with any gain in cap space. When he made that last deal it added $6 million in guaranteed money this season making his cap hit at about $18 million so if he was traded before June 1st it would be a wash. Now if he was moved after the 1st they can split it up at $9 million this year and next. The bad thing about at is most of the FAs worth signing would already be signed and the draft would already be over. At that point I think the best thing they could do is have a deal already lined up with a team like Dallas for next year's 1st rounder and maybe Bruce Carter. So it looks like they has Suh on the books for at least one more year.

The good thing is if Stafford could work a deal like suggested they could likely retain LoJack and Houston while trying to land a combination of Will Beatty, Keenan Lewis, and Levitre. If this worked out they could have both CB positions locked down as well as Backus' replacement and maybe even a legit G, not to mention a lot more flexibility come draft time. It's all a pipe dream but that's what this time of year is for.

I think Stafford could give us more than $3M in room. Last year Calvin cleared about $10M in space and I'd have to think that Matt would be able to give us between $5-$9M of relief for this season. I know we have to factor in that he has 2 years left on his deal and he has a lot of money due to him over those two years, but I think we can work something out that will be beneficial to all parties. It just kills me that Matt got 6 years and 72 million while just two years later, Cam got 4 years 22 million.

I think you're pretty close with the values you've got on Houston, Durant and Jackson for new contracts. Just throwing out some number ideas.... 3 year $10M deal for Durant, 3 year $12M for Houston and 2 years $5M for Jackson with cap hits of about $2M, $3.5M and $2M respectively for this season.

Pat Kirwan mentioned a possibility with Stafford today. Starting with the premise that Stafford is not going to agree to any more years added to his contract until after the Flacco deal is in place, this is what we can do. ( Kirwan said there are 3 years remaining on Stafford's deal.)

Stafford is due to have a cap charge of $18+ Million this year. So, without adding any years to his current deal, we can convert all but the veteran minimum, ( of this years cap charge), to a signing bonus. This will spread it out over the remaining 3 years on his contract. So his cap charge for this year would be somewhere at or near $7Million. We would add roughly $11Million to our available cap space for this year. But, the next 2 years of his contract would be monstrous. But, next year, the Flacco deal will be in place. And we can work out a long term deal that offers a much more cap friendly charge over the next 3 years. After the next 3 years the cap should be realizing the new TV revenue.

February 20th, 2013, 10:07 pm

thelomasbrowns

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2539

Re: Off-Season Moves

BillySims wrote:

inheritedlionsfan wrote:

I think Stafford could give us more than $3M in room. Last year Calvin cleared about $10M in space and I'd have to think that Matt would be able to give us between $5-$9M of relief for this season. I know we have to factor in that he has 2 years left on his deal and he has a lot of money due to him over those two years, but I think we can work something out that will be beneficial to all parties. It just kills me that Matt got 6 years and 72 million while just two years later, Cam got 4 years 22 million.

I think you're pretty close with the values you've got on Houston, Durant and Jackson for new contracts. Just throwing out some number ideas.... 3 year $10M deal for Durant, 3 year $12M for Houston and 2 years $5M for Jackson with cap hits of about $2M, $3.5M and $2M respectively for this season.

Pat Kirwan mentioned a possibility with Stafford today. Starting with the premise that Stafford is not going to agree to any more years added to his contract until after the Flacco deal is in place, this is what we can do. ( Kirwan said there are 3 years remaining on Stafford's deal.)

Stafford is due to have a cap charge of $18+ Million this year. So, without adding any years to his current deal, we can convert all but the veteran minimum, ( of this years cap charge), to a signing bonus. This will spread it out over the remaining 3 years on his contract. So his cap charge for this year would be somewhere at or near $7Million. We would add roughly $11Million to our available cap space for this year. But, the next 2 years of his contract would be monstrous. But, next year, the Flacco deal will be in place. And we can work out a long term deal that offers a much more cap friendly charge over the next 3 years. After the next 3 years the cap should be realizing the new TV revenue.

Uhh we basically do this every year with Staff. This is the foundation for WJB's Mayhew Kicking the Can Down The Road conspiracy theory.

_________________Jim Caldwell, on whether Jim Harbaugh is stealing his thunder: "Me? I don't have any thunder."

I think Stafford could give us more than $3M in room. Last year Calvin cleared about $10M in space and I'd have to think that Matt would be able to give us between $5-$9M of relief for this season. I know we have to factor in that he has 2 years left on his deal and he has a lot of money due to him over those two years, but I think we can work something out that will be beneficial to all parties. It just kills me that Matt got 6 years and 72 million while just two years later, Cam got 4 years 22 million.

I think you're pretty close with the values you've got on Houston, Durant and Jackson for new contracts. Just throwing out some number ideas.... 3 year $10M deal for Durant, 3 year $12M for Houston and 2 years $5M for Jackson with cap hits of about $2M, $3.5M and $2M respectively for this season.

Pat Kirwan mentioned a possibility with Stafford today. Starting with the premise that Stafford is not going to agree to any more years added to his contract until after the Flacco deal is in place, this is what we can do. ( Kirwan said there are 3 years remaining on Stafford's deal.)

Stafford is due to have a cap charge of $18+ Million this year. So, without adding any years to his current deal, we can convert all but the veteran minimum, ( of this years cap charge), to a signing bonus. This will spread it out over the remaining 3 years on his contract. So his cap charge for this year would be somewhere at or near $7Million. We would add roughly $11Million to our available cap space for this year. But, the next 2 years of his contract would be monstrous. But, next year, the Flacco deal will be in place. And we can work out a long term deal that offers a much more cap friendly charge over the next 3 years. After the next 3 years the cap should be realizing the new TV revenue.

Uhh we basically do this every year with Staff. This is the foundation for WJB's Mayhew Kicking the Can Down The Road conspiracy theory.

And every GM in the NFL does it. We got screwed by the previous CBA and Mayhew has no choice but to do it. That is not his fault.

I think Stafford could give us more than $3M in room. Last year Calvin cleared about $10M in space and I'd have to think that Matt would be able to give us between $5-$9M of relief for this season. I know we have to factor in that he has 2 years left on his deal and he has a lot of money due to him over those two years, but I think we can work something out that will be beneficial to all parties. It just kills me that Matt got 6 years and 72 million while just two years later, Cam got 4 years 22 million.

I think you're pretty close with the values you've got on Houston, Durant and Jackson for new contracts. Just throwing out some number ideas.... 3 year $10M deal for Durant, 3 year $12M for Houston and 2 years $5M for Jackson with cap hits of about $2M, $3.5M and $2M respectively for this season.

Pat Kirwan mentioned a possibility with Stafford today. Starting with the premise that Stafford is not going to agree to any more years added to his contract until after the Flacco deal is in place, this is what we can do. ( Kirwan said there are 3 years remaining on Stafford's deal.)

Stafford is due to have a cap charge of $18+ Million this year. So, without adding any years to his current deal, we can convert all but the veteran minimum, ( of this years cap charge), to a signing bonus. This will spread it out over the remaining 3 years on his contract. So his cap charge for this year would be somewhere at or near $7Million. We would add roughly $11Million to our available cap space for this year. But, the next 2 years of his contract would be monstrous. But, next year, the Flacco deal will be in place. And we can work out a long term deal that offers a much more cap friendly charge over the next 3 years. After the next 3 years the cap should be realizing the new TV revenue.

Uhh we basically do this every year with Staff. This is the foundation for WJB's Mayhew Kicking the Can Down The Road conspiracy theory.

And every GM in the NFL does it. We got screwed by the previous CBA and Mayhew has no choice but to do it. That is not his fault.

I want to also add that doing this with Stafford is perfectly fine. Stafford is our Tony Romo, he will always be just good enough your not going to ever try to replace him. He will play for the Lions until he can't play football anymore, so pushing his money back won't matter untill he hits his 30s and there starts to be a noticeable decline.