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I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

The reason I am posting this is only because of the many recent threads about all the overall "Conseco game experience"

I took someone to the Pistons game last Saturday night who has never been to a Pacers game before, never even watched them on TV before, does not know any players names, wasn't even sure if the Pacers were in the white uniforms or the blue uniforms. He is not a sports fan, never watches any sports - he grew up in Brazil.

You might be asking why would I want someone like that to go to a game with me. Besides the fact that he is a really good friend and I figured he would enjoy it, I also was curious to see his reaction to the game and to the overall Conseco experience.

I did not prepare him for anything prior to getting there and unfortunitely we arrived really late at about the 9 minute mark of the 2nd quarter. (we had to go to Bazbaeux pizza before and they were really packed - first time he's ever had their pizza and loved it, up until then he hated all American pizza - he just moved here from Brazil about 18 months ago).

OK, sorry I'm rambling. He loved the overall atmosphere (helped that there was a big crowd that was into the game for the most part) he loved Conseco - said it just feels good to be there. He enjoyed the slam dunk display between the 3rd and 4th quarter - overall he thought Boomer was a waste of time, he liked the Pacemates, he couldn't figure out why all the noise during the Fex Ex truck race, he enjoyed looking at all the people.

Within a few minutes he said something about the music played while the ball was in play. He noticed that when the Pacers had the ball the music was upbeat, but when the Pistons had the ball he said the music was ominous. I asked him if he liked the music during play, he thought it would be better without it as it was distracting and annoying

He really had no clue what was going on basketball wise, but seemed to enjoy the game and wants to go back. He said it is such a fun atmosphere and such a family atmosphere.

It was interesting and good for me to see things through his eyes a little to see how the casual or non-fan sees things. Sometimes I figure everyone is as big of a fan as we are here.

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

What, he didn't scream and run out of the building when 24 thugs poured out of the tunnels?

To me his opinion just fuels my campaign against the "casual" fans. I still call them out as liars, nothing short of that. They talk a lot of crap about the team, but in terms of family entertainment the actual games are still a pretty good deal at upper level prices.

Your friend wasn't watching with a bunch of baggage he brought to the arena. The same people that will go to Victory field with no idea of the background behind any of the Indians players (ghetto, criminal, whatever) and rave about the family experience for $8 and parking a lot farther away will rant uncontrollably about how horrible the Pacers are.

Do the Indians have to win to draw fans? Nope.

And honestly for all we know half the team has been in trouble because the local police/news wouldn't even know who they were if they were busted.

What, was it an accident that the news found out about Shawne's arrest? Were they just driving by? That's a tip-off phone call by someone who A) knew the player B) thought the press needed to know.

Or perhaps a reporter just scans the arrest records every night. If that's the case it's still the same point, that reporter wouldn't know the name of the starting RF for the Indians even if he saw it.

So I suspect that ambiguity has a lot more to do with how wholesome the Indians are. Wins and cost and convenience are moot IMO. I've done and enjoyed both endless times. Different but equal.

Besides there is a LOT more to do on a summer night than on a winter night. The "competition for your dollar" angle is crazy.

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

I think your Indians analysis is interesting. I really do believe the Indians experience is based on no expectations and just wanting an entertaining day at all ballpark. And it delivers.

BINGO!

If more people looked at going to the games open-mindedly, viewing it as an entertaining event for the family, they'd actually have a good time.

Cool story btw, Buck. I've done the same thing several times with people from Cincy who have never seen an NBA game. Every single one said they enjoyed it and said it's a lot more fun than watching the game on TV (they were casual fans of basketball, however).

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

Baseball is not basketball though. The difference in intensity is one of the differences in atmosphere that speaks to why the level of expectations are different. And cheap seats can get you fairly close to the action at Victory Field.

I'd be curious to know how UB's friend would feel about the experience if they were in the balcony (or was this in the balcony?). Reason being, when people talk about the balcony being a bargain, maybe it is when there's a buzz about the team and just being there and being a part of it is an experience... But I'm not sure that translates to the upper decks when things are like they are now. The casual fan isn't going to feel much intensity in the balcony if the team is playing badly or lethargic... or if the overall mood of the arena is down (as it is in down years). If the team is playing with some passion that might translate to the lower bowl fairly well... but if the lower bowl is only 2/3rds full and the upper decks are sporadic at best, I don't know if it translates well up there.

And I don't think the forced "Get on your feet Pacer fans!" are anything but practically insulting to many. Did your friend have any comments about that?

-Bball

Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

I'd be curious to know how UB's friend would feel about the experience if they were in the balcony (or was this in the balcony?). Reason being, when people talk about the balcony being a bargain, maybe it is when there's a buzz about the team and just being there and being a part of it is an experience... But I'm not sure that translates to the upper decks when things are like they are now. The casual fan isn't going to feel much intensity in the balcony if the team is playing badly or lethargic... or if the overall mood of the arena is down (as it is in down years). If the team is playing with some passion that might translate to the lower bowl fairly well... but if the lower bowl is only 2/3rds full and the upper decks are sporadic at best, I don't know if it translates well up there.

And I don't think the forced "Get on your feet Pacer fans!" are anything but practically insulting to many. Did your friend have any comments about that?

-Bball

I sit in the lower level, row 14 in one of the corners. $81.00 seats, although I never told him how much they were and the ticket I gave him had the price marked out, (I marked it out on purpose for several reasons). He didn't mention anything about Jerry Baker (who subbed for Reb Porter) telling us to stand up. Although I don't remember Jerry telling us that, but I easily could have missed it.

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

Buck, it is a good thing you did.

We go around and around here about Pacers' attendance and why it is down and who's fault it is and what needs to be done to change it.

But we all need to act as Pacers missionaries, bringing friends with us when we go to games. It matters less what they think going in, than that they get a chance to see a game and refresh their opinion.

Kudos.

And I won't be here to see the dayIt all dries up and blows awayI'd hang around just to seeBut they never had much use for meIn Levelland. (James McMurtry)

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

What, he didn't scream and run out of the building when 24 thugs poured out of the tunnels?

To me his opinion just fuels my campaign against the "casual" fans. I still call them out as liars, nothing short of that. They talk a lot of crap about the team, but in terms of family entertainment the actual games are still a pretty good deal at upper level prices.

Casual fans atleast know the history of the players, and the trouble they've been in.

Looking at them doesn't give you the sense that some are facing criminal charges, they look like extremely large black men that you would see every day walking down the street, on TV, at work, or even your friends. They can't be decked out in chains, wearing their pants down at their knees, they can't see them reppin their gang colors because their bandanna's are still in their locker.

He knew nothing about them, AT ALL. Unless you're extremely prejudice against tall people, or against other races you would have zero reasons to look negatively upon them.

It's like you would think if a little baby didn't start bawling at the mere sight of some of these guy's it doesn't prove a point that people are turned off at their actions. I don't understand how you can't believe the general public doesn't go because of their actions in the past few years, especially when you have a fairly good amount on this board who say they've been turned off.

We don't know them as people. We get to see them for 3hrs 82 times a year. The only other time 90% of us hear or see them is if they're in the newspapers.

If the Indians players start acting, or atleast their actions start showing up in the papers, then you may have a point.

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

I love conseco, but unless its a fairly large crowd then it's easy to get lost in the greatness of the building. When the crowd is small as in the several games i have gone to this year all the noise and REB yells do seem forced. I would imagine a packed house crowd wouldn't be bothered by the sounds and announcing one bit due to the intensity of a full conseco being into a game. You ever walked down a school hallway after school had been out for a few hours and screamed at the top of your lungs? Yea, it probably sounded out of place and echoed and the afterschool math club probably peeked their heads out the door and looked at you funny. Now, if you ever walked down the hall in between passing periods or lunch and screamed into the packed hallway/lunchroom, you would notice it was no big deal as probably more people than you were doing the same. We just need fans in the stands. I feel as people are almost afraid to cheer like they want to due to what others may think. "Get this drunk out of here...." or "Whats he cheering for, doesnt he know we're going to lose?" Power in numbers people, that is the fans biggest gift to the players.

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

I don't understand how you can't believe the general public doesn't go because of their actions in the past few years, especially when you have a fairly good amount on this board who say they've been turned off.

First off, the first part was a joke. Then I double spaced for a different train of thought, and that thought is that when you remove the baggage and just look at the PRODUCT it's still good stuff.

I'm gonna call those same fans out as liars yet again. Was Tinsley playing vs Memphis? Were the stands suddenly full?

Liars. "Hoosiers" with their love of all things basketball would have poured into the arena just to see locals Owens and Conley starting at PG against each other (could they at least get a full Lawrence Central crowd in there), or to see Dunleavy and Foster hustling their way to great basketball, or Mr. 4 year college good guy Granger as a key element for the team.

Complaints about the product don't match what the product actually is. Fans decide what something is and then that's just what it is. It's not thugs, it's expectations of winning, as in the casual fans don't have any.

Just like they decided that Manning was a choker and that it would be better for 5000 Titans fans to come into the Dome to watch a playoff game instead.

The day you defend that last item (successfully) is the day I start to listen to any of this defense of fan apathy for the Pacers. This is the fanbase, it's not good. All teams lose fans when times are bad, but what explains the poor showings for the Colts or Pacers even when times aren't that shabby at all? A lot of towns could bring in crowds for a team that was "only" .500, or only in the wild card game.

Look at the crowds now. Then trade Tins away, JO too, go into rebuild mode and lose 55 games this year and next. Now tell me what the crowds look like, and just which player is the excuse du jour for not going to games. That's what reality is about to be. I'm mad now while there is still hope to do something about it. After the fact "I told you so" isn't going to make things better.

They didn't come back when Jackson was traded, they won't return if Tinsley is traded, they won't return if JO is traded, they talk respect for Dun but they don't make good on it. It's all BS.

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

If JO and Tins are traded fans won't be coming because Murphy's contract is too big and Granger never lived up to the hype.
I have much more respect for someone who says, "The team sucks so I don't go." Over someone who uses excuse after excuse. First it was Artest, then it was Jack, now its JO and TIns. There will ALWAYS be a scapegoat when the team is losing or mediocre ALWAYS. Especially in a market the size of metro Indianapolis.

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

Thanks for sharing about taking your friend to the game UB. It is always neat to get an 'outsider's' view of something you enjoy and take for granted sometime. Maybe the Pacers need to talk to the non-season ticket holders to see what brings them to the games and what keeps them from coming. I live in the home of the World Champs and do not pay to go to games for 2 reasons. The first is that i can't afford to pay for seats in the lower level. The second is that sitting in the upper level stinks even when it is full. Might as well watch it on t.v. It doesn't help that my wife is deathly afraid of heights.

Those may be 2 reasons that the "average" Pacer fan stays away as well. The franchise is also going through what the Trailblazers went through. I'm not sure if anyone on here is from there, but my sister said that when it went bad there it was horrible. Of ciurse,, we have not had the luxery of lottery picks while our team has its bad rep, deserved or not, to start the rebuilding of the team. The team has to give the public a reason to come back. Wins are the best way, but staying out of trouble wouldn't hurt.

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

Yeah, it is interesting to think about why people don't attend and why some people may have a negative opinion of the Pacers or about the cost or utility of attending an NBA game.

But the important thing here is that UncleBuck took somebody to the game, giving them a chance to form a fresh opinion (in the case of UncleBuck's Brazillian friend, it was a first opinion).

Those of us who live near enough to Indy to attend games, whether it is a few games a season or all of them, ought to be talking the experience up to our friends and trying to help the franchise reconnect with the community.

Our efforts will be puny, and it won't always work. The last time I took a friend (apart from one of my daughters) to a game was the Feb. 5th loss to Golden State. The Pacers looked awful, and my friend pointed to the lackadaisical effort and the big deficit on the scoreboard and said, "This is why I don't go to Pacers games."

Still, we ought to be trying to help.

Last edited by Putnam; 01-03-2008 at 12:44 PM.

And I won't be here to see the dayIt all dries up and blows awayI'd hang around just to seeBut they never had much use for meIn Levelland. (James McMurtry)

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

I've had this dream of retiring and moving to Indy for a number of years now. Why? Season tickets. Nights out for a game and a couple of beers afterwards to kick around the game. I'm a simple man.
It's one of those well-that'll-never-happen dreams...for one thing, my wife can't take the snow...but I dream it anyway, and I envy you guys that can actually get out to Conseco once in awhile.
Take advantage of it.

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

I've had this dream of retiring and moving to Indy for a number of years now. Why? Season tickets. Nights out for a game and a couple of beers afterwards to kick around the game. I'm a simple man.
It's one of those well-that'll-never-happen dreams...for one thing, my wife can't take the snow...but I dream it anyway, and I envy you guys that can actually get out to Conseco once in awhile.
Take advantage of it.

Don't give up the dream. Anyone who can get rhythm out of a recorder can do anything he puts his mind to. Except fly.

And I won't be here to see the dayIt all dries up and blows awayI'd hang around just to seeBut they never had much use for meIn Levelland. (James McMurtry)

Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

Look at the crowds now. Then trade Tins away, JO too, go into rebuild mode and lose 55 games this year and next. Now tell me what the crowds look like, and just which player is the excuse du jour for not going to games. That's what reality is about to be. I'm mad now while there is still hope to do something about it. After the fact "I told you so" isn't going to make things better.

They didn't come back when Jackson was traded, they won't return if Tinsley is traded, they won't return if JO is traded, they talk respect for Dun but they don't make good on it. It's all BS.