Testing your bias Ducky. Like my self? Now that really hurts. I'm really
not sure what you are basing that on either. I try to stay pretty objective and
try to use facts, figures and statistics to back my position. As this point of
the season, they are very close to Utah. A lot depends on how they finish.
Fortunately for BYU, they can coast from here on out. Unfortunately, win or lose
and they will end up in the same bowl. BYU needs a conference. IMO

Oh
and one more thing......Have a good Evening Duck Guy!

DuckhunterHighland, UT

Nov. 2, 2012 4:02 p.m.

They're a bad team this year. Why do you ask? Is it because BYU beat them?
Are you expecting me to try and claim that they are good just because BYU beat
them? I'll leave that kind of stuff to utah "fans" like yourself.
They were middle of the pack last year and towards the bottom of the pack this
year. I would put them on par with utah this year.

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Nov. 2, 2012 11:23 a.m.

Ducky

Earlier you rated them as a bad team, or did you conveniently
forget that John White had a great day against them? So if they were middle of
the road last year, what are they this year?

DuckhunterHighland, UT

Nov. 1, 2012 9:13 p.m.

@spokane ute

No I do not think Georgia Tech was a "good" team
last year. They were ok, middle of the pack, not good.

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Nov. 1, 2012 5:00 p.m.

@ RockwellI've got to run, so we will agree to disagree. You feel
Georgia Tech had a medicore year, and I feel they had a good year. Fair Enough.
BSU and TCU are oviously BCS teams. BYU could be, but I feel the no playing on
Sunday line hurts there chance to join a BCS conference. Stay dry and well talk
later on another thread. Take it easy; and have a good evening!

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Nov. 1, 2012 4:44 p.m.

Snack PAC

Don't recall asking for your position Mr. Helper, but
let me try and make heads or tales out of your rant. Going 8-4, and playing in
the ACC certanly defines a good team in my book. And yes, obviously TCU and BSU
are BCS worthy, as they will both join, or have joined, a BCS conferences.
That's a no brainer. "Invalidated you entire arguement....". I have
no idea what you are saying? I'm not so sure you do either.

Snack PACOlympus Cove, Utah

Nov. 1, 2012 3:58 p.m.

Spokane Ute

Sorry to ruin your spin, but finishing 56th out of 123
FBS teams IS decidely mediocre.

A total of 123 (120 full members, 3
transitional) teams participated in the 2011 NCAA Division I FBS football
season.

And your "so what" response concerning BSU and TCU is
laughable, since you just invalidated you entire argument about all bcs teams
being superior to all non-bcs teams.

How on earth did you conclude
that BSU and TCU were "bcs worthy", since, according to you, no non-bcs
team could ever be as good or better than a bcs team?

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Nov. 1, 2012 2:37 p.m.

Utah vs. TCU/BSU since 2002: 3-5BYU vs. TCU/BSU since 2002: 3-7

So what? They are/were the two best non-BCS schools. That's why TCU is
in, and BSU will join a BCS conference.

TCU this year 5-3.

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Nov. 1, 2012 2:21 p.m.

Rockwell,

Nice job of playing connect the dots with Georgia Tech.
That's a pretty silly system, this team almost beat this team, who beat
this team, who beat that team....

Don't recall stating that
going undefeated automatically means a team is #1? If finishing #50 out of 200 +
teams is mediocre, your definition is severly flawed.

In 2004, per
the final BCS standings, Utah beat #20 Texas A&M, the #21 Pitt (bowl game)
by a combined score of 76-28

In 2008, Utah beat #11 TCU, #16 BYU then
#4 Alabama.

I hope that helps. While we are enlightening each other,
tell me who BYU beat, that was in the final rankings, when they went
undefeated.

Another one, what is Utah's record vs. BYU over the
last 10 years?

RockwellBaltimore, MD

Nov. 1, 2012 12:31 p.m.

Spokane Ute

Georgia Tech last season was, in my opinion, mediocre.

Georgia Tech this season has a very good offense and a mediocre to bad
defense (kind of the opposite of Utah) - a mediocre to bad team, depending on
how the rest of the season plays out.

As I said before, I
couldn't care less whether a team is in a bcs conference or not; conference
affiliation is not a determining factor of whether a team is good or bad, and
strength of schedule only matters if you WIN.

I believe that Kansas
had the #1 SOS last season, but look where Sagarin ranked the Jayhawks.

BYU's win/loss record versus bcs conference teams is a factor of how good
the teams were, not whether they were bcs conference teams or not. Guaranteed,
if BYU had played nothing but bcs conference bottom dwellers, BYU's record
versus bcs conference teams since the beginning of the LaVell Edwards era would
be sterling.

How many Top 25 bcs teams did Utah beat in 2008 and 2004
to qualify for a bcs bowl?

What is Utah's record against non-bcs
Boise State and TCU during the last 10 years?

RockwellBaltimore, MD

Nov. 1, 2012 11:24 a.m.

Spokane Ute

Georgia Tech 2011 lost 5 of their last 7 games, including
to Virginia, a team that barely beat Idaho 21-20 at home in OT, and Miami(6-6),
another team that lost to Virginia.

The problem many fans have with
the Sagarin ratings, is they concentrate solely on wins, while failing to notice
the losses. Sagarin evaluates the entire season including good wins and bad
losses.

btw, simply having an undefeated season isn't
automatically a recipe for being ranked #1. There are many more factors,
including, the records of the other teams in contention.

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Nov. 1, 2012 11:17 a.m.

@ Rockwell

I disagree. Big difference between playing BCS caliber
schools week in and week out, vs. playing lower tier schools. Utah and TCU have
proven this theory over the last few years. Compare BYUs Win loss record vs. BCS
and non BCS schools. BIG difference. and yes, Utah's strength of schedule
is currently ranked #3 per Saragin. So are you actually calling Georgia
Tech's team "bad" last year? That will tell me if your are
objective or a Homer. FYI, G Tech is 3-5 this year. Good or Bad team? I would
say a fair team.

RockwellBaltimore, MD

Nov. 1, 2012 11:05 a.m.

Spokane Ute

Thanks, we're fine here in Baltimore except for some
downed trees and powerlines.

As far as the good/bad team debate, I
couldn't care less whether a team is in a "bcs" conference or not.
Very good and even great teams can reside in a non-bcs conference and playing a
weak schedule doesn't prove that a team is bad, it simply proves that they
haven't been tested. Conversely, beating a bunch of mediocre to bad bcs
teams doesn't prove that a team is good, regardless of which conference
they're in.

It is interesting when fans trot out the Sagarin
ratings to prove SOS, but then choose to completely ignore the actual Sagarin
rankings.

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Nov. 1, 2012 10:30 a.m.

Rockwell

Bad, Fair, Good, Great, it's all pretty subjective. But
if going 8-4, and 6-4 vs. BCS schools (includning beating Clemson) doesn't
define a good team then we can agree to disagree. Great team? no. Good team?
yes. Tulsa? They went 0-4 vs. BCS schools last year. You can look at Saragin all
you want, but Tulsa didn't beat anyone decent last year. The Saragin
rankings are tough to figure. Did you know that when Tennessee went undefeated,
the first year of the BCS era, the Saragin rankings didn't even have them
as #1? Go figure. Hope you weathered the storm OK, it sure mangles NY and NJ.

RockwellBaltimore, MD

Nov. 1, 2012 9:55 a.m.

Navel Vet

"They ARE all awful, but there IS a substantial
difference between CU and Idaho, UNM and NMSU. The most plausible scenerio would
be CU going 3-0 against them, and with double-digit point spreads."

Based on what, your own biased opinion?

Regardless, when it comes
to really bad teams, does it really matter how bad? Both BYU and Utah should
easily handle CU, Idaho, and NMSt, although, as we've seen before, Utah,
and in particular, Kyle, is capable of losing to ANYBODY - see 10-loss UNLV and
Colorado.

-----------

Spokane Ute

Sagarin
ranked #34 BYU and #35 Tulsa ahead of #39 Utah and well ahead of #56 Georgia
Tech. You can argue whether #56 is mediocre or bad, but you certainly can't
argue that it's good.

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Nov. 1, 2012 9:38 a.m.

Now Ducky is classifying last years 8-5 Georgai Tech team as "bad team".
I guess he has to spin it to fit his agenda.

LOL!

DuckhunterHighland, UT

Nov. 1, 2012 8:40 a.m.

So what this article tells us is that other than last years BYU game john white
usually gets 100+ yards against bad teams yet never does against good teams.
Very enlightening.

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Nov. 1, 2012 7:31 a.m.

@CougfaninTexas

I have no control over other posters, just like you
don't control Utah Haters. Nothing wrong with BYU's schedule. Is it
light loaded towards the end? Sure, but it's probably not easy scheduling
as an independent and it's been a good schedule as a whole. Good luck this
weekend, I see BYU winning out.

@soonerUte

We can agree to
disagree. When your starters have played 80% of the game, and the out come is
not in doubt; no need to risk a critical injury: especially with 4 games to go.
John Hayes should have got some more reps at that point, same goes for the 3rd
or 4th string RB. IMO

Naval VetPhiladelphia, PA

Nov. 1, 2012 7:15 a.m.

anti BCS:

"I don't see a 'substantial difference'
between any of them, they're all awful."

They ARE all awful,
but there IS a substantial difference between CU and Idaho, UNM and NMSU. The
most plausible scenerio would be CU going 3-0 against them, and with
double-digit point spreads.

Naval VetPhiladelphia, PA

Nov. 1, 2012 7:10 a.m.

phoenix:

"Even Colorado fans think this may be one of the worst
Colorado teams ever."

But do they think they're in the same
league with Idaho and NM State?

Because I think not.

P.S.: My stats were not selective. I omitted no games in the
head-to-matchups between CU or UNCO and Idaho or either New Mexico school. The
person guilty of "selective stats" was you. Who said anything about
Wyoming? Busted.

phoenixGilbert, AZ

Oct. 31, 2012 11:21 p.m.

anti BCS

It's obvious that Navel Vet is just blowing smoke
again, using selective "stats" based on nothing but his own biases.

Even Colorado fans think this may be one of the worst Colorado teams
ever.

As one Buffs blog summarized, "After two successive weeks
of point spreads that reached all the way up into the 40's against the top
teams in the Pac-12 conference on the road, the Buffaloes now return home to
face Stanford and a projected four-touchdown margin. That number is obviously
significantly lower than the last two that Colorado was up against, but
it's another slap in the face for a program that is struggling through an
HISTORICALLY POOR year."

btw, Colorado(1-7) is 6th in this
week's ESPN Bottom Ten, just ahead of 4th place NM St(1-7) and 3rd place
Idaho(1-7), but behind 8th place Wyoming(1-7).

Mighty "PAC
12" team indeed.

anti BCSAnaheim, CA

Oct. 31, 2012 10:32 p.m.

Naval Vet

"Colorado IS stronger than those aforementioned two
[Idaho and NM St). Substantially..."

Instead of only looking at
conference affiliation, try for once taking a stroll down reality lane.

Frankly, I don't see a "substantial
difference" between any of them, they're all awful.

btw,
Utah is 0-1 versus the WAC and past head-to-head history is absolutely
MEANINGLESS; Utah losing to the Aggies this year proved that

---------

btw, you still didn't present one shred of evidence
that Oklahoma would have done any better in the 2nd half with Bradford, than the
Sooners did without him.

As proven by the back to back hits on
Bradford that knocked him out of the game at the end of the first half,
BYU's defense was already putting enormous pressure on Bradford and
completely shutting down Oklahoma's offense:

The article is about John White, and how his
success in running the ball correlates with Utah's wins over the last two
seasons. For once I wish the comments could focus on the articles, rather than
the tired Utah vs. BYU banter.

Good luck, Utes. Coaches Whit and
Johnson, please give the Wolfman the ball!

Naval VetPhiladelphia, PA

Oct. 31, 2012 2:53 p.m.

CougFaninTX:

"Colorado is no stronger than Idaho or New
Mexico."

First of all, it's Idaho and New Mexico State
(WAC)! Not New Mexico (MWC). And secondly, Colorado IS stronger than those
aforementioned two. Substantially. Idaho and New Mexico St. compare to the Big
Sky's Northern Colorado (Bears); not the Pac-12's Buffaloes.
Don't be so frantic and emotional.

And FWIW: Colorado had never
lost to New Mexico St, never even played Idaho, has a winning record vs. New
Mexico, and hadn't lost to the Lobos since 1949. On the other hand, No.
Colorado is 2-0 vs. New Mexico, 1-1 vs. New Mexico St, and, like the Pac-12
Buffaloes, had never even played Idaho.

Naval VetPhiladelphia, PA

Oct. 31, 2012 2:44 p.m.

Jealous U:

"At the time Sam Bradford left the BYU-OU game, the
game was tied 7-7 and Max Hall was outplaying Bradford."

With 12
seconds remaining in the 1st Half, at the BYU 18-yd line, facing 1st-&-10,
Oklahoma called a T.O. The next play, Bradford threw and incomplete pass, and
was injured for the season. On 2nd-&-10, Oklahoma kicked a FG with
2-seconds reamining in the Half.

So yeah, TECHNICALLY, the game was
tied 7-7, but whether or not Bradford went down, the Sooners would have kicked
the FG anyway, so the scoreboard showed a Bradford-led offense leading 10-7 at
the end of the 2nd Qtr.

And as for "outplaying" Bradford,
that's a matter of perspective. Both were completing over 70% of their
passes, and each threw for a TD. Hall threw for 127 more yds, but he also threw
36% more passes. And unlike Bradford, he ALSO threw for an INT.

Had
Bradford not been knocked out of the game, the cougars lose in Norman.

Jealous UAlpine, UT

Oct. 31, 2012 1:28 p.m.

SoonerUte

"Beating the worst Sooner team in Bob Stoops career is
still lofted as a mighty accomplishment for BYU."

Revisionist
History!

Worst record, maybe, but with three of the first four picks
in the NFL draft and back-to-back wins over Top 25 teams to finish the season,
Oklahoma was still a VERY good team.

At the time Sam Bradford left
the BYU-OU game, the game was tied 7-7 and Max Hall was outplaying Bradford.

BYU's
defense was dominating Oklahoma, and it was back to back clean hits on Bradford,
that took Sam out of the game.

There's no evidence that
Oklahoma would have fared any better in the second half, even with Bradford.

Jenny83Logan, UT

Oct. 31, 2012 12:51 p.m.

CougFaninTX "Real formula for success" = Play BYU .......

Jealous UAlpine, UT

Oct. 31, 2012 12:32 p.m.

ETB

BYU also beat up on some very good WAC and non-conference teams
during the 70's, 80's and 90's, and in the process won a national
championship, a Heisman Trophy, and finished in the Top 12 more times than the
Utes have finished in the Top 25 in their entire history.

MLH

I don't believe in morale victories, but losing three very winnable
road games by a total of 7 points, including a 3-point loss at #3-ranked Notre
Dame is proof enough that BYU can compete with anybody this year. I did notice
that you conveniently left Utah State off your list of BYU wins and ignored how
BYU completely shut down one of the best offenses in the country, in Georgia
Tech.

btw, Sagarin ranks #22 BYU and #36 San Jose State higher than
#44 Utah, and higher than three of Utah's final four opponents.

What chance would the Utes have of going to a bowl this year if they
hadn't bookended their schedule with two byes - Northern Colorado and
Colorado?

NORCALUTEMoTown, CA

Oct. 31, 2012 11:45 a.m.

Our Utes have found their rhythm...finally. It's obvious they will win
their final 4 games and go bowling. It's a great time to be a Ute!
Hopefully next year Kyle can work on coming out of the blocks a bit quicker.

SoonerUteSalt Lake City, UT

Oct. 31, 2012 11:39 a.m.

CougFaninTx says "I hate to make excuses, but come on - beating a QB with a
broken back can't be listed as your greatest accomplishment this year, can
it?"

That's a very odd statement, CougFan.

When
BYU took out Sam Bradford in the OU game, the Cougars got by the Sooners by 1
point. I've been told time and time again by Cougar fans that OU losing
their Heisman-winning starting quarterback didn't make one bit of
difference. Beating the worst Sooner team in Bob Stoops career is still lofted
as a mighty accomplishment for BYU.

According to Cougar logic, a QB
with a broken back is the same as one with a healthy back.

SoonerUteSalt Lake City, UT

Oct. 31, 2012 11:28 a.m.

SpokaneUte wonders "Why did Whittingham have Wilson and John White in the
game, late in the 4th quarter when the out come was determined?"Wilson
was in the game because he is a freshman that needs as much experience as
possible. Learning opportunties don't end just because the game is in
hand.White was in the game because York was out with an injury.

Lifelong UteSalt Lake City, UT

Oct. 31, 2012 10:59 a.m.

I think if we feed White the ball like we should have been doing all along,
there is a very good chance we win out from here.

A bowl win would
put us at 8-5, which although below our standards, is respectable. For whatever
reason we struggled to get going both seasons, but I think we've turned the
corner and will control things from here on out.

MLHSALT LAKE CITY, UT

Oct. 31, 2012 10:48 a.m.

SWOOP

Quit while you're behind-beating up on Weber St, Hawaii,
Idaho, SJSU, and NMSU is not to much of a frantic thing, you'll get to your
bowl probably win it and be set up perfect for-owe NO, NO 10 win season but that
#25 ranking looks pretty good. Man that sounds fun.

CougFaninTXFrisco, TX

Oct. 31, 2012 10:38 a.m.

Spokane Ute - @ CougFaninTX "Real formula for success - play BYU"

I give you your due with 3 in a row, but 2 of them have been great
games. And I hate to make excuses, but come on - beating a QB with a broken
back can't be listed as your greatest accomplishment this year, can it?

Also, can you ask your counterparts to quit dissing BYU's November
schedule. Colorado is no stronger than Idaho or New Mexico. Don't lay an
egg like last year.

Ernest T. BassBountiful, UT

Oct. 31, 2012 10:32 a.m.

Swoop: beating up the dregs of the conference....just like us during the late
70s and early 80s.

SwoopSalt Lake City, UT

Oct. 31, 2012 10:19 a.m.

"3 in a row and 8 of 11."

...against a team the Utes
supposedly don't care about anymore.

It was very gracious of
your big brother to provide the ONLY highlights of your first first two years in
the PAC.

Unfortunately for U, that's all you have to crow about
because you haven't done anything of significance in the conference -
beating up on the other dregs of the conference in a frantic attempt to become
bowl eligible is nothing to boast about.

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Oct. 31, 2012 8:39 a.m.

@ Ducky

You do realize I'm right too? 3 in a row and 8 of 11.
You certainly own that one; or should I say, the Utes own you? Notice who came
on who's thread and threw the first shot; typical and classy as always.

No laughter today? Cheer up, we both should win on Saturday. LOL!

Ernest T. BassBountiful, UT

Oct. 31, 2012 8:36 a.m.

Utah is horrible and still hasn't beaten a good team this year.

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Oct. 31, 2012 7:54 a.m.

@ CougFaninTX

Real formula for success - play BYU

Spokane UteSpokane, WA

Oct. 31, 2012 7:52 a.m.

I watched the replay of the Cal game on the PAC 12 channel last night, the 60
min version. A couple of things caught by eye.1) Why did Whittingham have
Wilson and John White in the game, late in the 4th quarter when the out come was
determined?2) What has happened to Devonte Christopher?