Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

I'm cautiously optimistic when it comes to Lance. Of course I'm hoping it'll work out between us and him, but at the same time, I am a little concerned about what could happen if he ended up becoming the player he can be. Would he let the attention get to his head, or would he be mature enough to handle it like a professional? Lord knows the Pacers don't need another Artest-like situation.

I'm clearly on the "Lance is a SG not a PG" bandwagon, but I also don't think it's fair to look at him on a personal level.

He's a kid. Has he made some mistakes, yea. Has he been unprofessional. Yea. But he is quite young. Guys need to grow up. I don't know that it's fair to worry about him over the other players. People make mistakes in their lives, I'm sure most don't want to be judged for things they did when they were 17 or 18.

I think this had an effect, but only in that they are no longer targeting two point guards. They may go into the season without another vet PG, but they'll have to hold their noses to do it.

-AJ being close to being ready

If I were to bet one way or another, I would say that they are not counting on AJ much, if at all. I don't necessarily expect it to happen, but it would not be a particularly surprising event to see them cut AJ either prior to 8/1 or prior to opening night, which are key dates regarding his guarantees.

If they cut him prior to 8/1, they owe him nothing. Only $175,000 becomes guaranteed from that point until opening night. The $175 seems small enough for them to give him another two-three months to see how the knee responds, but I think it's far from a sure thing that he comes back next year.

AJ's situation heightens the need for a vet PG, and I am almost completely positive that's how the FO views it.

I've seen his injury minimized on the basis that it's a bone break. However, he basically broke his knee cap without contact, simply trying to make a basketball move. This is the second major injury to his left knee in a period of just over two years. I don't see any way that can't be of significant concern.

-TJ being thought of as an actual option based on where we are now

Uhhhh...no.

or maybe a combination of all of it, I guess.

I also wonder what options Earl Watson has left from a dwindling market?

Bird still states his goal as attaining a vet PG, but I just wonder how much the urgency of doing this has waned due to Lance, if at all.

I think the urgency is just as high, but the options are few. Draft night was the best opportunity for a deal, but the best deal I heard (OKC's TJ Salary Dump) didn't directly address the PG position, other than to open up the ability to offer a bigger chunk of the MLE for one of these guys.

Personally, I'd rather have Paul George, than to be signed on to guys like Steve Blake, Luke Ridnour, or even Jordan Farmar for 3-4 years.

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

I've seen his injury minimized on the basis that it's a bone break. However, he basically broke his knee cap without contact, simply trying to make a basketball move. This is the second major injury to his left knee in a period of just over two years. I don't see any way that can't be of significant concern.

I've wondered this at times, too. I know AJ has shown remarkable, admirable resiliency in overcoming injuries/health issues in the past. However, at some point you have to look at just the sheer number of different health situation that have cropped up. Is this just another random injury or is it becoming more the norm/pattern?

I hope he overcomes it and is retained, but it's hard imagine TPTB not having discussed all angles vis a vis his roster spot. They seem very high on him overall, though, so hopefully that bodes well. Still, just from the PG roster and overall roster limit, he and Ford together provide a challenge - TJ because he's not particularly wanted (purportedly) and AJ because you have to think he won't be 100% until well into the season even assuming all goes well.

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

There is still the fact that we need a 3rd pg behind/in-front of price and stephenson. Ford is on the Lazy-Suzanne carousel of JOB's playing time, mainly only when he has to because of injury. Every day another pg is off the board. I've come to grips with the fact that we are not a player in the FA market. Most likely if we add the "veteran pg" its gonna be a trade. I say we throw caution to the wind and go after...

....JEREMY LIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need 2 healthy PG's to start the season. How funny would that be to have both of them rookies, especially if they beat the odds and were actually decent? but how good does the pg have to be to run JOB's last year offense? Seeing as how half the team (and coach/gm?) is gone by next summer, lets get some strong blood in here to see what they can do. Lance and Lin are turning heads. I'd drive up from Atlanta, where I've been in the solitary confinement of NBA enthusiasm for the past year, to see that show.

2 ROOKIE PG's
-One is a 6-5 tank from the New York streets that has been "Borne Ready" since Jr. High
-The other, asian Steve Nash from Harvard

By the way, in a world that decries stereotypes... That would be epic. Huge baller from New York, proclaimed greatness in tattoos, came into the limelight by way of Rucker Park. Asian-American who went to Harvard, plays stellar defense on J Wall (Who we all wanted), and slithers through defenses. 2 stereotype players.

count,
I get why you WANT to say this, but w/ AJ's injury & our cap space/ self-imposed contract offers, I'm just not sure how you CAN say this?

-Do you see a trade before the start of the season?
-If we do make a trade, is TJ involved, or are others (D.Jones, Solo)?
-Do we get a servicable vet as a FA to a contract of our liking?
-Do we cut AJ for a healthy option (rook FA, D-Leaguer, other)?
-Any hope TJ works w/ JO'B better being that this is a "contract year" for him?

Love to hear your thoughts.

Last edited by PacerGuy; 07-20-2010 at 11:51 AM.

"Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"(Watching You Like A Hawk!)

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

count,
I get why you WANT to say this, but w/ AJ's injury & our cap space/ self-imposed contract offers, I'm just not sure how you CAN say this?

-Do you see a trade before the start of the season?
-If we do make a trade, is TJ involved, or are others (D.Jones, Solo)?
-Do we get a servicable vet as a FA to a contract of our liking?
-Do we cut AJ for a healthy option (rook FA, D-Leaguer, other)?
-Any hope TJ works w/ JO'B better being that this is a "contract year" for him?

While everyone recognizes that playing TJ may end up being the final, unavoidable option in this, I find it almost impossible to believe that Bird & O'Brien are thinking, "Well, let's not worry about getting a vet PG, because maybe we'll be OK with Ford."

I guess you could argue that their actions have implicitly chosen the possibility of Ford over trades they didn't like or giving long term contracts to people they don't want long term or going over the luxury tax. However, that's pretty thin, and driven more by other issues than by any comfort associated with having Ford.

The Following User Says Thank You to count55 For This Useful Post:

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

I drink the Lance brand kool aid, but jebus. Lance is going to school TJ in practice? TJ is still lethal quick one-on-one, and Lance wasn't exactly known for his jets at Cincy. Mind you, he looked like he was in better shape during summer league and looked reasonably quick. Still, TJ is capable of abusing a lot of NBA caliber players.

That said, I get the vibe that TJ is in exile. We haven't got a point because they aren't any keepers available for for an expiring contract trade. And if you can't get a keeper, you wait for the musical chairs tune to wind down, and you nab a poor slob that lost out. This year's Watson.

The article sure wasn't written from the perspective of a coach with waning job security. "Hey Jim, how about playing the rookie second rounder that's new to the position? It's not about wins and losses. Those won't matter very much until... Uh, it comes to YOUR contract.".

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

Despite his speed, TJ is probably the easiest guy to guard in the NBA right now in half court sets. All guys have to do is play off him, cheat behind the pick-and-roll, and force him to take long jumpers. If he somehow does manage to get past his man and into the lane, chances are pretty slim that he'll actually be able to finish at the rim.

Sadly the NBA has TJ figured out, and unless he discovers his stroke from outside, he's pretty much done I'm afraid.

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

I've wondered this at times, too. I know AJ has shown remarkable, admirable resiliency in overcoming injuries/health issues in the past. However, at some point you have to look at just the sheer number of different health situation that have cropped up. Is this just another random injury or is it becoming more the norm/pattern?

I hope he overcomes it and is retained, but it's hard imagine TPTB not having discussed all angles vis a vis his roster spot. They seem very high on him overall, though, so hopefully that bodes well. Still, just from the PG roster and overall roster limit, he and Ford together provide a challenge - TJ because he's not particularly wanted (purportedly) and AJ because you have to think he won't be 100% until well into the season even assuming all goes well.

I posted this in the thread about AJ's injury.

Apparently, a Patella break can happen the way AJ's did, because of a certain type of ACL reconstruction surgery. They use the patella tendon to repair the ACL, and a bit of the bone in the middle is taken out because of it. Sometimes (although it's kind of rare, but AJ's injuries are rare so...) the Patella splits in half later on in the person's life because of it.

I have to think that's the reason it happened. Because how else could you possible break your kneecap without touching it.

I'm not worried about Price. I don't think there's anything he needs to get back physically once he's healed. But As I said, I have to guess that there's going to be some mental issues he'll have to get over. But this is truly, baby stuff, compared to what he's been through before.

Honestly, I doubt they'd cut him. He's the only actual PG on the roster the FO likes, and they are rehabbing him here. Why would they waste the money and resources. Why not just cut him from the beginning? And regardless, it does not make your organization look good to players if you do that. (cut guys because they are injured)

Dunleavy's injury was going to take him much longer to adjust to, and the Pacers seemed to expect more out of him that was fair. IMO. Seems to me like this organization likes to think that a player's injury isn't as big of a deal as it is.

Either we'll get rid of Ford for a different PG option, trade Solo for a second round draft pick or something like that (or cut him), or we'll go into the season with what we have.

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

Despite his speed, TJ is probably the easiest guy to guard in the NBA right now in half court sets. All guys have to do is play off him, cheat behind the pick-and-roll, and force him to take long jumpers. If he somehow does manage to get past his man and into the lane, chances are pretty slim that he'll actually be able to finish at the rim.

Sadly the NBA has TJ figured out, and unless he discovers his stroke from outside, he's pretty much done I'm afraid.

Alternatively, sag off him, don't switch, and collapse on him in the paint. He'll zip right into trouble thinking that he's using his quickness to do the right thing... and then BAM! He's in the air and that's a turnover. In the unlikely event his stroke is "on", its still a pretty simple adjustment to neutralize him.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

I'm not buying into the Lance Stephenson as an answer to the PG position as many around here are, but at this point starting him is absolutely the right thing to do. We are not going to be competitive either way. It is the same thing I was saying two years ago about McRoberts and last season about A.J. Price. When you are in our situation, you play your youth because there is no downside to it. If they work out, great. If they don't, that's fine to. At least you know one way or the other. If McRoberts would have gotten a chance two seasons ago, maybe we find out we don't need another PF before we draft Hansbrough and can take a PG so we don't have this current issue. Maybe we find out that we absolutely need another PF. Instead, we found out nothing and ended up with two similar players in one spot and no players in another.

Every available minute should go to the youth this season, just as it should have in the past two.

Lance and AJ should get all the point guard minutes.
Granger, Rush, and George should get all the wing minutes.
Hibbert, McRoberts, Hansbrough, and Rolle should get every big man minute.

Is it possible we'd win a few more games if we started Ford, Dunleavy, Granger, Murphy, and Foster than if we started Lance, Rush, Granger, McRoberts, and Hibbert?

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

But the answer is that several players are working out at the field house nearly every day while others are here and there according to their whims. If you got by the practice court of the fieldhouse on any given day, you might see Josh there shooting. They can do conditioning and individual drills, but there can be no team activities until October. N' est ce pas?

Last edited by Putnam; 07-20-2010 at 05:03 PM.

And I won't be here to see the dayIt all dries up and blows awayI'd hang around just to seeBut they never had much use for meIn Levelland. (James McMurtry)

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

But the answer is that several players are working out at the field house nearly every day while others are here and there according to their whims. If you got by the practice court of the fieldhouse on any given day, you might see Josh there shooting. They can do conditioning and individual drills, but there can be no team activities until October. N' est ce pas?

This is true. McRoberts is there nearly every day of the week. Hibbert is usually with him as well.

But I know, this week at least, all the rookies are joining Josh and Roy. George, Stephenson, and Rolle have all been working out with them in Indy this week.

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

^^ I'm sorry... quicker? Does that even make sense to you? Bigger...stronger...QUICKER? I believe the first 2 and therefore not the quickness...

On to the topic at hand. Great article... Opens up some avenues for us to discuss... I do not start Lance just bcuz. I give him serious mins from the get-go and watch and see what happens. I think that was coveredn somewhere already

You my friend must NOT have ever trained seriously. It's very easy to get 'quicker' while also getting bigger and stronger!!! Quicker in the sense that HANS will be more EXPLOSIVE in terms of his quick-twitch muscles. He'll jump higher and get off the ground quicker as well as run the court faster. He'll be a very good player this year if he stays healthy and can work on his NBA game. I think he'll be a quick study and with the right folks on the floor with him......his learning curve will be shorter. Go Pacers!!!!

Re: Why starting Stephenson at PG could be a smart move for the Pacers' future(indystar)

I'm sure AJ is looking forward to the matchup. I never saw anything from Price to make me believe he'd backdown from a larger player. My opinion is he can't wait to be able to go against Stephenson.

Naw, of course, he won't back down and will take his punishment without any malice. But, I was talking in the sense that they are BOTH NYC products with AJ Price from Long Island and Lance Stephenson from Brooklyn. Also, AJ Price knows the short history of Lance Stephenson which includes his rough playing style from the streets and then playing with bigger guys, including OJ Mayo, most of his young life. What's interesting is that AJ Price is 6'2" and 190lbs and was born in Orange, NJ although he lived in East Massapequa, New York. He led his high school team to three straight Long Island Championships and state titles in his sophomore and junior seasons. Lance is 6'5" and 215lbs and was born in Brooklyn, New York City, in the Coney Island section. Stephenson won city basketball championships in all four years of high school, is New York State's all-time leading scorer in high school basketball. After his Senior year he was named New York State Mr. Basketball and was named to the McDonald's All-American Team in 2009 as many posters already know.