General Conference: The Steve Evans Memorial Saturday Morning Open Thread

Welcome to the BCC Saturday Morning General Conference Thread, as part of By Common Consent’s live coverage of the 182nd Semi-Annual General Conference! We will be providing you with near-continuous live commentary, and other goodies throughout the weekend’s activities. We also encourage you to (if you’re not already doing so) watch Conference live, streaming from LDS.org.
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First Presidency is on the stand, the choir is in fuschia/magenta/orchid pink, Wilberg conducting High on the Mountain Top.

President Uchtdorf conducting.

Welcome from President Monson, “no unhallowed hand…”

You Can Make the Pathway Bright–can’t decide if this is the moment to deploy the one snarky musical comment I’ve allotted myself for this session.

President Packer–“These children of whom I speak represent all of our Heavenly Father’s children. ‘Children are an heritage of the Lord…”

“The ultimate end of all activity in the Church is to see a husband and his wife and their children happy at home, protected by the principles and laws of the gospel, sealed safely in the covenants of the everlasting priesthood.”

“Many times I have puzzled over why I should be called as an Apostle and then as the President of the Quorum of the Twelve in spite of having come from a home where the father could be termed less active. I am not the only member of the Twelve who fits that description. Finally, I could see and understand that it may have been because of that circumstance that I was called. And I could understand why in all that we do in the Church we need to provide the way for parents and children to have time together as a family. Priesthood leaders must be careful to make the Church family friendly.”

“There are many things about living the gospel of Jesus Christ that cannot be measured by that which is counted or charted in records of attendance.” (!!)

Sister Cheryl Esplin–“Teaching Our Children to Understand”
I like the pairing of President Packer talking about learning from our children with this admonition to teach children.

Nice story about prayer with Ashley. I always told my kids they weren’t allowed to pray for their siblings’ repentance :)

“The divine privilege of raising our children is a much greater responsibility than we can do alone without the Lord’s help.”

“Sometimes the most powerful way to teach our children to understand a doctrine is to teach in the context of what they are experiencing right at that moment.”

“We can know our children are beginning to understand the doctrine when we see it revealed in their attitudes and actions without external threats or rewards. As our children learn to understand gospel doctrines, they become more self-reliant and responsible. They become part of the solution to our family challenges and make a positive contribution to the environment of our home.”

I really like this emphasis on children’s development, and the respect for them as real humans!

[missionaries] are a powerful, persevering force for good, which is having a profound effect on their lives and upon those who are touched by their service.”

Missionary experience [can] be applied as a template for nurturing others throughout the rest of their lives.

Awakening the desire to know enables our spiritual capacities to hear the voice of heaven.
When we actually live the gospel in the pattern taught by Jesus Christ, our ability to help others increases.

Seeking the patterns leads us to the doctrine of Christ as taught by the Savior and His prophets.

The ultimate means by which we can enjoy the gift and power of the Holy Ghost…is our LOVE for Christ and our fellow man.

The Savior defined the pattern of love…

The Father’s plan designated the pattern of the family organization to help us learn, apply and understand the power of love.

There is seemingly no end to the expansive capacity to love.

Elder Oaks: The incomprehensible suffering of Jesus Christ ended sacrifice by the shedding of blood, but it did not end the importance of sacrifice in the gospel plan. Our Savior continues to require us to offer sacrifices, but the sacrifices he now commands are that we “offer for a sacrifice unto [Him] a broken heart and a contrite spirit.” (3 Nephi 9:20)

“Many Christians have voluntarily given sacrifices motivated by faith in Christ and the desire to serve Him. Some have chosen to devote their entire lives to the service of the Master. This noble group includes those in the religious orders of the Catholic Church and those who have given life-long service as Christian missionaries in various Protestant faiths. Their examples are challenging and inspiring…”

But Mormons sacrifice a lot in lay ministry, missionary work, sacrifices of conversion, temple service, and tithing and offerings and volunteering.

“Such examples strengthen all of us.”

“I also see unselfish Latter-day Saints adopting children, including those with special needs, and seeking to provide foster children the hope and opportunities denied them by earlier circumstances. I see you caring for family members and neighbors who suffer from birth defects, mental and physical ailments, and the effects of advancing years. The Lord sees you also, and He has caused his prophets to declare that “as you sacrifice for each other and your children, the Lord will bless you.” (ETB, 1988)

Just as the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ is at the center of the plan of salvation, we followers of Christ must make our own sacrifices to achieve the destiny that plan provides for us.

Elder Eyring: Mountains to Climb

There seems to me no better answer to the question of why trials come and what we are to do than the words of the Lord Himself, who passed through trials for us more terrible than we can imagine: “For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent.”

President Monson has also wisely taught that a foundation of faith in the reality of those promises takes time to build. …My purpose today is to describe what I know of how we can lay that unshakeable foundation.

Building lasting foundations for buildings was hard work [when I was young]. It also required patience.

In a similar way, the ground must be carefully prepared for our foundation of faith to withstand the storms that will come into every life. That solid basis for a foundation of faith is personal integrity.

Choosing the right consistently creates the solid ground under our faith. Those choices, hundreds in most days, prepare the solid ground on which our edifice of faith is built.

One of the keys to an enduring faith is judging correctly the curing time required. The curing does not come automatically through the passage of time, but it does take time. Getting older does not do it alone. It is serving God and others persistently with full heart and soul that turns testimony of truth into unbreakable spiritual strength.

I miss the days when President Kimball, President Benson, and some of the other earlier prophets opened conference with a major talk/message (Beware of Pride, BOM Keystone of our Religion etc.) instead of just the “Hi, here we are again, please pay attention” talks hat have mostly started conference over the last decade or so.

25 Brandt – I noticed that too. I was listening from the other room and came in to see if his teeth were slipping. My father used to horrify my friends my moving his teeth around. Come to think of it, he still does. ;)

Nice to see all my bloggernacle friends again. The donuts and fruit and chocolate mile are on the serving table just outside the living room. The Candy Bowl is placed by the large screen TV. And the children (8 of ours and 4 cousins) anxiously await the pronouncement of the word HOLY so that they may partake from the candy bowl. It is just after 8 AM local time here in Alaska.

Well, checking in and listening now, surprised there were no temples announced. Won’t be able to watch the afternoon session, getting ready to sing in the Priesthood Session choir Also, President Monson does seen like he has new dentures.

Now that the church has put out more High Def broadcasts over the internet of Conference (and others), you can really tell the age of some of the general authorities. Pres. Packer is looking and sounding pretty rough. He’s reading pretty well, but it sounds like he can’t get the voice out like he wants it.

Brian, the point is not whether we should be doing more or less. Nor is the point whether the orphans got fed or not. The point is that we should THINK about such matters, ponder them, and reflect on them.

I’m happy with some of the emphasis on families, I think there needs to be more explicit recognition of the great “non-traditional” families that presently exist, that they may be missing some things other families have, but they also gain some experiences and qualities of relationship that other families don’t have.

I like my California king size bed that my husband paid for thanks to my adamant about living in a house–NOT an apartment–when we got married during the few years that the tax break was offered to new homeowners thank you very much.

Blair, yes. Yes. Validation of non-traditional families needs to acknowledge not just that we’re “less than ideal” but that there might even be blessings for families that are living with a single parent.

So we should reduce the number of church activities and programs to protect families? Does this mean we’re going to reduce the number of extra-special bonus meetings (e.g., priesthood executive committee, ward council, stake general priesthood meetings) to protect families? (Hey, a boy can hope!)

Elder Packer said “I groaned within myself.” This is not typical English, but it is a Book of Mormon phrase, in 3 Nephi 17:12. Is this adoption of something he’s read and reread, or deliberate emulation?

Looks like there’s a biblical variant as well, “And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Rom 8:23

Outstanding talk by Packer. All its emphases reminded me of what James called pure religion: “Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.”

Her anecdote is a reminder to me that parents and children are very, very different. And different stuff works for them. I doubt I’d ever do that “let’s pray about it approach with my kids – and they’d find it rather weird.” I’d probably just tell them to figure it out themselves, and if the fight continued – take the toy away from both of them and boot them outside.

#126: Given that sometimes later GC addresses respond directly to earlier ones from the same weekend, i don’t think it can be true in the strictest sense. Whether it’s true that at least the outlines (or initial drafts) of any address have to be pre-approved? That i don’t know.

Tracy M (#131) – Thanks for clearing that up. I thought it contradicted a lot of what I’ve heard about the conference “process,” which also explains the corrections that are made post-broadcast, as well as things like the Poelman talk.

My understanding is that they are told in which session they will be speaking, and whom they are following/being followed by, and then charged to pray about it and write their talk. The talks must be submitted ahead of time for translation services, but they are not necessarily vetted or changed.

Activity in the church does not equal activity in the gospel. I nearly fist-pumped when he said that. (The big question he hasn’t addressed: Yes, one can be simultaneously active in the church but inactive in the gospel—but can one be simultaneously active in the gospel and inactive in the church?)

2. Focus on the ordinances and convenants. Then live faithful to them with weekly “gift” of sacrament. Says it has a cleansing power.

3. Unite the gospel with the Church. Concentrating on the gospel, the Church will become more, not less, a blessing. Come prepared to Church. “If we come to be entertained, we will be disappointed.” TRUTH.

Elder Hallstrom is hitting it out of the park. It’s like a correlated Elder Pulman [spelling, sorry] throwback.
We tend to focus so much on measurable perfection in Church culture. We can sure do a better job at loving one another on our paths to gaining greater faith, rather than just counting if they’re doing everything on the “I’m churchy” checklist.

Interesting recipe in order to talk about Church/Gospel difference without the problems Poleman experienced: speak very highly of the Church–seriously, say there is nothing like it in the rest of the world–and then move on to the gospel.

Well, I add the important caveat: That’s only really true if you’re an assigned teacher or speaker and other people are bored, or, if you’re in charge of making sure the teachers and speakers are prepared. Then it’s your fault.

Lots of good little tidbits in there. I hope all those Bishops who assign conference talks as Sacrament mtg topics (a practice that tends to create crummy sermons) choose this one. It’s fresh and relevant.

Every year I question the wisdom of having the primary kids be forced to learn an adult hymnbook song for the Primary Program, but hearing my kids sing along to How Firm a Foundation (the designated hymn a couple years ago) always warms my heart.

I have to leave, no more conference for me. But ‘being active in the church isn’t the same as being active in the gospel.’ That’s what I needed to hear. And then he listed the activity in the gospel (!) Faith! Repentance! and something something I’m gonna have to look at a second time. At least.

I can assure you that the talks are, in fact, reviewed by the Office of the First Presidency before they are delivered. In this process, some changes are, in fact, made to the talks before they are delivered. In short, they’re all vetted nowadays, though some time ago they weren’t.

Hallstrom’s talk was not only gutsy but really pierced me deep in my heart. I feel a call to repent in that talk. I could be doing much, much better in being active in the gospel even though I have been working hard in my church callings etc. Really great talk.

I thought the last part was especially powerful, tbh. Really liked his ideas about love and gravity, love increasing, being drawn, and God’s arms. For real, really liked that bit. Glad I kept listening. :)

I absolutely love the quality Elder Oaks’s voice, and it often distracts me from his content. (I do phonetic analysis of speech as my job, so i’m probably more apt to this sort of thing than most, i figure.)

Love this: “Many Christians have voluntarily given sacrifices motivated by faith in Christ and the desire to serve Him. Some have chosen to devote their entire lives to the service of the Master. This noble group includes those in the religious orders of the Catholic Church and those who have given life-long service as Christian missionaries in various Protestant faiths. Their examples are challenging and inspiring…”

I think it’s the most detailed praise of other faiths I’ve ever heard in conference?

I don’t know…. referring to family as being “organized” may rub Hollywood sentimentality the wrong way – but it seems a more reliable, practical, and ultimately long-lasting notion than the sort of fleeting sentimental nonsense that seems to found a good chunk of the marriages in our country right now.

When he was talking about the missionaries and the angry man, I started getting nervous. Missionaries love to hear the “us against the man” argument, they love to hear about “standing up” for what they feel is right against an angry man, and in the 10 times these confrontations happen, maybe one in 10 actually work out successfully. Instead of putting the pressure of converting everyone, I think the story showed moreso the LOVE that missionaries should have towards everyone, something that I sometimes find lacking among some missionaries.

Cynthia, #214 “sound thirsty” is a personal pet peeve of mine, and it’s when someone’s mouth is dry and their lips smack while they speak. It makes listening to them, for my quirky ears, utterly completely unbearable. It’s like nails on a chalkboard. Actually, nails on a chalkboard sound better to me.

Kristine, agreed. That was a wonderful statement. It was Oaks a few years ago who, in his talk on healing, recognised that other faiths are able to experience the gift of healing. I appreciated that then and this today.

The recognition that other denominations have lay ministries is nice, but the claim that we sacrifice more time than anybody else? Dude, you’ve never heard of the Jehovah’s Witnesses? What their active members do puts our missionary work to shame.

We need some pep rally for our team, yes, but I also think it could better be coupled with shout-outs to good people of all walks. The “daily gospel living” we do is great, but in many ways it mirrors the sacrifices and Christian-principled (whether acknowledged or not) service done by all sorts of good people. Parents who sacrifice for their kids, acts of kindness and charity, philanthropic enterprises, etc.

Actually the reason we don’t use the cross is because in Joseph Smith’s day, no American Protestant church used the cross. It was considered to be a symbol of the papacy, which American Protestantism intensely disliked. So no one used the cross.

The Protestants got over this initial aversion over time. But stuck in the mountain deserts of Utah, the Mormon church grew up in isolation from these wider Protestant trends. So we never re-adopted the cross.

Elder Oaks: “Many Christians have voluntarily given sacrifices motivated by faith in Christ and the desire to serve Him. Some have chosen to devote their entire lives to the service of the Master. This noble group includes those in the religious orders of the Catholic Church and those who have given life-long service as Christian missionaries in various Protestant faiths. Their examples are challenging and inspiring…”

Not a fan of his tie. Diagonal stripes all the way!
214 – Maybe they woke up late and didn’t have time to eat/drink before coming to conference. I call it an “accidental fast.” I have those all the time.

Ben(249): not at all. I thought this was the most charitable sermon toward other religions in quite some time. He even specifically said we should sympathize with how others choose to sacrifice for their faith.

Nice! Shout-out to adoptive and foster parents and caregivers: “I also see unselfish Latter-day Saints adopting children, including those with special needs, and seeking to provide foster children the hope and opportunities denied them by earlier circumstances. I see you caring for family members and neighbors who suffer from birth defects, mental and physical ailments, and the effects of advancing years. The Lord sees you also, and He has caused his prophets to declare that “as you sacrifice for each other and your children, the Lord will bless you.” (ETB, 1988)

I’m curious what he thinks the limits of acceptable sacrifice for the gospel might be. (For example, Mormons don’t really actively seek after martyrdom or such, and i don’t think he’s saying we should.)

ACtually, I thought Oaks’ included a very balanced and more-than-usual number of positive references to non-LDS clergy and others, recognizing their goodness and sacrifice.

re:the cross, I feared he was going to repeat the “instrument of death” idea as to why we don’t use it. N.T. Wright takes that tack, but then shows why it’s so important to understand.

“Crucifixes regularly appear as jewelry in today’s post-Christian Western world, and the wearers are often blissfully unaware that their pretty ornament depicts the ancient equivalent, all in one, of the hangman’s noose, the electric chair, the thumbscrew, and the rack. Or, to be more precise, something which combined all four but went far beyond them; crucifixion was such an utterly horrible thing that the very word was avoided in polite Roman society. Every time Paul spoke of it — *especially when he spoke in the same breath of salvation, love, grace, and freedom*– he and his hearers must have been conscious of the slap in the face thereby administered to their normal expectations and sensibilities…. God has reversed the world’s values.- N.T Wright, 46-47 in What St. Paul Really Said.

Jack, I like the idea of giving active Mormons credit for what they do. Because they do an awful lot of work.

But I’ll simply quietly agree that it would be nice to acknowledge that their level of commitment is not unique to Mormonism. My aunt is Jehovah’s Witness, and does more work for her faith than I do for mine.

So far two full-throated talks celebrating the positive qualities of the Church–how much we sacrificew, how we we are organized. This is coupled with generous comments to other Christian traditions and practices.
At this time of heightened national interest in the Church, there is heightened scrutiny by the media. Clearly there is the expectation that more media are following Conference.

Brooke #259 – I’ve always been wary of horizontal stripes on neckties. I think it’s a very small percentage of people who can pull it off. Even less-so with vertical stripes. Diagonal seems to be the best way to go, followed by paisley and then dots.

Though, if we’re talking about dress, if anyone were to bring back the cream colored suit, it would be Uchtdorf. And I’d love to see it. He could also pull off the white wavy hair too.

And the exact words were “All of this affirmed in a nation-wide study which concluded that active members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ‘volunteer and donate significantly more than the average American and are even more generous in time and money than the upper [20 percent] of religious people in America.'”

Why do we also have to claim the first place- we are the best, other people sacrifice, but our sacrifices are better… etc. Why can’t we say, “there is so much good in the world, so many people living Christ-filled lives. Let’s strive to be among them.” Why do we always have to think we are better? Seems contrary to what we learn in the scriptures.

#282&283: If you look at the Pew survey’s methodology, it doesn’t actually fully support the claim Oaks was making. There’s a difference between volunteering time generally and volunteering time to one’s religion, and as i recall the Pew results (which i had to look into in great detail this past fall for work reasons), they dealt with the former and not the latter—but Oaks was talking about the latter.

Note the theodicy here: Eyring doesn’t address it logically or systematically. Instead he reads revelation, which itself focuses on reassurance, commiseration, and a lack of full understanding of why things are going so badly.

#281 Blair ~ I’m aware of the Pew survey. Last I checked, financial giving and volunteer work are far from the only ways that someone can make sacrifices for their religion. The job you take or the school you choose to attend or the place you decide to move with your family can all be sacrifices on behalf of one’s religion—yet they wouldn’t show up on a Pew survey.

#316: At half-past the hour, this was introduced as the concluding address. I’m guessing he’s been allotted 21 minutes, which is the longest i’ve seen non-PH-session GC addresses go during the past decade or so.

For reasons I keep largely quiet for the present, I want to say this sermon, despite all of the nitpicks here and some of my own, seems to have been written for me. I don’t feel like that very often. But God bless Pres. Eyring.

My stake participated in the Penn survey. The SP visited each ward and devoted a 5th Sunday lesson to filling out the survey. All the adults present (if you were with the youth or primary, someone visited your class) that day were required to complete the form, and were coached to give the expected responsed. Perhaps it was handled better in other stakes, but my experience leads me to beleive that there was too much bias in the sampling for it to be accurate.

I liked Elder Eyring’s talk. You can’t really go wrong with a talk comforting those in trial. And if you are the one in trial, it feels needed and refreshing. Redeemer of Israel really fit right in following it, as well.

#321–surprised that the researchers permitted data collection in this manner. I assume they outline in their report how the data are collected in each group and this possibility (when distributing through wards and stakes)would certainly be noted as a weakness of the study.
That said, I can attest that doing research on Mormons–even Mormon bishops–can be a challenge. The Church research department has robust methods of collecting data and they may or may not (usually not) allow academic or outside researchers to use their channels.

Loved Elder Eyring’s talk! As my husband and I shared our reactions, I realized that each of us is listening from separate contexts. I am listening as a mother, eager for messages of encouragement and comfort, for stories I might share with my children. Bruce, though also listening as a father, is also listening as a bishop, gleaning counsel for his responsibilities in our ward. Also, I cleaned my whole refrigerator while listening to Conference.

321 My ward also participated in the Penn survey. No coaching whatsoever in my ward and it was entirely voluntary. It was very detailed, breaking church and community service down by type and duration over the course of the previous year.

I will be watching all 4 sessions of conference when they become available for live streaming. I am especially interested in watching Conference alone this year, and possibly even putting my thoughts on paper. It sounds good so far though, especially Henry B Eyring’s talk? I like him alot.

#334: I was referring to the Cnaan, Evans, and Curtis survey from the U of Penn. The methodology bothered me, so I refused to hand in my form. I may still have it in a stack of old papers.
Pres Eyring started to bear his testimony (got to listen to that part) so I forgot to check for typos in my previous comment!

Any comments with a name that includes some variant of StillConfused that are not in fact from the person who usually uses that name will be deleted and the IP banned. Pick a handle, your own handle, and just one handle for all your comments. Switching handles or appropriating handles is prohibited and will not be treated kindly.

So glad this is the Steve Evans Memorial. I was going to ask where he went on earlier threads but didn’t want to thread-jack. His short pithy comments were awesome and greatly missed by me. RIP…………………………..

Kulturblog

Time to update Susan’s post from August of 07. “They say that these are not the best of times, But they’re the only times I’ve ever known. And I believe there is a time for meditation In cathedrals of our own.” -Billy Joel, Summer Highland Falls

NOTE: This is an essay I wrote as an undergraduate at the University of Utah almost thirty years ago. I am republishing it here as a remembrance of my favorite professor, Mark Strand, upon the occasion of his passing. Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live… […]