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1. Running in neutral - whine or no whine?
2. Shifted into first gear, engine off, not touching clutch lever - does trying to rock the bike feel like it's trying to turn the engine over or is it disconnected so pushing is easy?
3. Same question in second gear?

If pushing is easy in first with the clutch lever out, I'm not believing an oily disk is the culprit. Way to much pressure plate spring. Something is broken.

I don't know this clutch disk is manufactured but I have seen riveted hub broken out and spinning in a car clutch disk. Might make a whine.

If something broke, considering the misalignment problem some of these models had, it would be wise to look into WHY something broke.
I went to the trouble of tearing my 2001 down just to check the spline lube. At 60,000 miles the shaft was like new. Fortunately I didn't get one of the bad ones.

1. Running in neutral - whine or no whine?
2. Shifted into first gear, engine off, not touching clutch lever - does trying to rock the bike feel like it's trying to turn the engine over or is it disconnected so pushing is easy?
3. Same question in second gear?

If pushing is easy in first with the clutch lever out, I'm not believing an oily disk is the culprit. Way to much pressure plate spring. Something is broken.

I don't know this clutch disk is manufactured but I have seen riveted hub broken out and spinning in a car clutch disk. Might make a whine.

If something broke, considering the misalignment problem some of these models had, it would be wise to look into WHY something broke.
I went to the trouble of tearing my 2001 down just to check the spline lube. At 60,000 miles the shaft was like new. Fortunately I didn't get one of the bad ones.

Thanks:
1 - running in neutral - everything is normal. Shift with clutch still in - normal. Let clutch out in any gear and out comes a grinding whine. Cannot get back into neutral unless I turn off the engine.
2 - not running, shift into first or second - can push easily, with a gritty scraping sound as the bike moves, engine definitely not turning as I push it. The sound appears to be coming from toward the front of the bike. It would be interesting if we could attach audio files - some of you gurus could probably diagnose the problem just from that!

Replaying a ride last weekend I did have a couple of missed shifts - which I thought were my fault due to new boots but now wonder if this was a first symptom.

I will get a diagnosis today - seems like I should buy beers for those who've contributed. Funny how talking about bikes is interesting. Not as good as riding, but still interesting. I will update later today.

My semi uneducated guess is something more than just a seal / oil - more something that broke loose.

Replaying a ride last weekend I did have a couple of missed shifts - which I thought were my fault due to new boots but now wonder if this was a first symptom.

I will get a diagnosis today - seems like I should buy beers for those who've contributed. Funny how talking about bikes is interesting. Not as good as riding, but still interesting. I will update later today.

I'd like the beer - but hope I'm wrong. Bikerfish has the best sound description of stripped clutch spline.

Thanks:
1 - running in neutral - everything is normal. Shift with clutch still in - normal. Let clutch out in any gear and out comes a grinding whine. Cannot get back into neutral unless I turn off the engine.
2 - not running, shift into first or second - can push easily, with a gritty scraping sound as the bike moves, engine definitely not turning as I push it. The sound appears to be coming from toward the front of the bike. It would be interesting if we could attach audio files - some of you gurus could probably diagnose the problem just from that!

Replaying a ride last weekend I did have a couple of missed shifts - which I thought were my fault due to new boots but now wonder if this was a first symptom.

I will get a diagnosis today - seems like I should buy beers for those who've contributed. Funny how talking about bikes is interesting. Not as good as riding, but still interesting. I will update later today.

My semi uneducated guess is something more than just a seal / oil - more something that broke loose.

Fixed - shredded clutch spline

This is an good thread, and I'm interested in hearing what the OP finds out.

But PAS, I wonder if Paul is lucky or more like the protagonist in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" who stays in touch with his machines ...

I just heard back from BMW:

Failed Clutch, and somehow the clutch spline was chewed to death. given the speed of the failure it seems like the teeth just shaved off in unison. So instead of being bounced all over it was just sitting there and I was hearing a grinding whine but nothing violent. Slave cylinder didn't look good but didn't seem to have failed. I asked them to closely check alignment. Dealer hadn't seen this type of failure on this model - said he had seen it on some 1100's. Main input shaft was fine (thankfully), other seals are fine, transmission appears to be fine. They replaced the clutch, related seals, and it is apparently running perfectly (I pick it up tomorrow) for about $1,000 (the mechanic has the same exact bike and is pretty fast).

Thanks for all the input - I'm not sure their was a clear winner, but GKMan seemed pretty close - Happy to buy any of you a cool drink if my next ride brings me your direction. If you come near Grand Rapids, MI let me know - always room in the garage, and a rustic cottage on Stony Lake just North of Whitehall that doesn't get enough use.

I'm off this weekend up the west coast of lake michigan - some great stretches of paved and unpaved roads all the way to the Mackinac Bridge. Next weekend off to Farminton, PA. I'd love to make the RA event at the Biltmore in N.C. but can't make it to Portland - just too far and not enough time.

Failed Clutch, and somehow the clutch spline was chewed to death. given the speed of the failure it seems like the teeth just shaved off in unison. So instead of being bounced all over it was just sitting there and I was hearing a grinding whine but nothing violent. Slave cylinder didn't look good but didn't seem to have failed. I asked them to closely check alignment. Dealer hadn't seen this type of failure on this model - said he had seen it on some 1100's. Main input shaft was fine (thankfully), other seals are fine, transmission appears to be fine. They replaced the clutch, related seals, and it is apparently running perfectly (I pick it up tomorrow) for about $1,000 (the mechanic has the same exact bike and is pretty fast).

Thanks for all the input - I'm not sure their was a clear winner, but GKMan seemed pretty close - Happy to buy any of you a cool drink if my next ride brings me your direction. If you come near Grand Rapids, MI let me know - always room in the garage, and a rustic cottage on Stony Lake just North of Whitehall that doesn't get enough use.

I'm off this weekend up the west coast of lake michigan - some great stretches of paved and unpaved roads all the way to the Mackinac Bridge. Next weekend off to Farminton, PA. I'd love to make the RA event at the Biltmore in N.C. but can't make it to Portland - just too far and not enough time.

I asked them to closely check alignment. Dealer hadn't seen this type of failure on this model - said he had seen it on some 1100's.

How do they do that? The only way I can think of it is to mount the indicator on the flywheel, rotate the crankshaft, and read the input bearing housing bore thus:[ATTACH=CONFIG]40206
Agree you got off very lucky!

How do they do that? The only way I can think of it is to mount the indicator on the flywheel, rotate the crankshaft, and read the input bearing housing bore thus:[ATTACH=CONFIG]40206
Agree you got off very lucky!

Bill Pierce's Pelican Part's response using a shaft extension from the crankshaft (at ~post 31) is better, but having the extended shaft only 1/4 inch dia adds that deflection, which could be substantial, into the run out measurements. That's why I made the indicator fixture as rigid as possible & used three rare earth magnets (salvaged from a disk drive) to magnetically mount it on the flywheel bolts.

I was really wondering if someone had a way to check run out without tearing the transmission apart. Maybe using a precision sleeve over the old spline etc but it would be necessary to remove the old clutch pack, and a bitch to read.

As usual many posts were seizing on the un-engaged spline length, but I don't think that will significantly help a radial misalignment.

I think the reason BMW never recognized this problem publicly is the incredible expense to check and repair wearing splines. I'll bet there has been some sweating over this warranty issue, and the problem is probably due to initial clutch housing clamp deformation in the machining setup.

I had two of those failures on one Oil Head over ten years ago, an 1100.

It was just the bike's way of telling you to "buy something else, we don't need your kind 'round here."

BTW, I'm working the registration desk at the rally in Salem and will be keeping a close eye out for RS and former S owners. There will be S Conversion Kits available for RS owners. I haven't decided how I will react to to meeting a former S owner. Might be something like but more likely it'll be, "Let's go for a beer. You're buying."