Its so obvious to me now you point them out! Dam! I don't like failing.. I new i should of taken off straight away, But the place i appeared to set off from had obviously been staged in a way to intrigue and distract me and see how much i really wanted to do the retrievals.

Don't worry, us Humans as a whole are always great for "second guessing" ourselves and sometimes ignoring our "inner warning systems".

It doesn't surprise me that it would happen in the NPR as well.

Just last night or should I say this morning, I awoke in some kind of 3 way technical challenge and I saw that I was cheating to win.

This doesn't make me feel too good about myself today.

I thought I had handled that have to win, ego, competitive thing, long ago.

But if I was being true to myself, I tell everyone that with this practice here that in my mind "failure is not an option".

I guess that stubborn attitude could arise in other situations as well.

AP is not a competition for me though. "RE-Learning" this "skill" here is important to me.

As promised, some early days learning experiences. These had to be done before any retrievals were given. A different mindset from the physical HAD to be learned. These were unexpectedly irritating as at that time ,late 60's and before I was 10 yrs old, my NP worldly experiences had recently taken a massive jump to the astral proper. I wanted to learn and see so much more than our physical related world lonely experiences.

In the training sessions at the outset, I was given tasks to perform. Some of these made no sense at all and had no practical use or purpose. That's how I saw the training. I didn't understand the depth and as a result ended up getting frustrated at the reoccurring scene playing over and over again.I was so wrong in my assumptions. I couldn't see the point in spinning plates on a spiky stick.First time I was shown how to do it with one plate. You were not allowed to touch a thing. You sat in a comfy chair and looked into the room. A floor full of holes evenly spaced. A pile of spiky sticks and lots of white plates.I'd already learned levitating things to a fine art in one lesson. What this reoccurring event did was a mystery. What caused this very important lesson was a requirement where I had to learn the respect of order. Every night I'd spin a plate. Nothing, just nothing happened. This went on for a few nights. It then dawned on me that the spinning wasn't what was important, it wasn't, it was a lesson after all.I started to move a stick and a plate and spun the plate by rotating the stick beneath it. Then another and another.After getting 25 or so going the waiting pile started to shrink. Then chaos. The first one fell then the second and so on. I instantly lifted all the plates off the sticks to prevent waste. They all immediately returned to the pile complete with sticks. The floor was clean and I was really confused. It was another failiure.I started again, this time faster and got 45 plates spinning.It then hit me in the face, what the lesson was about. I had to get 100 plates up and take care of all of them for some time. It took a couple more nights to do this.I could then apply this ability to anything. It wasn't about plates. It was about control. You have to do simple tasks many times and do them without losing your original direction. So keeping everything going means taking responsibility for your actions. This entails making sure everything you set up will remain that way. It taxes your brain into the importance of what you have done that still requires attention and the end goal which must be accomplished no matter what this is.An important lesson learned.

Another one,I would wake, or so I thought, into a white room. This was universally lit quite brightly. It had a good feel to it. I looked around and instinctively knew the task at hand was to simply leave the room.Yeah, the room had no doors or windows. Being perplexed by this inconvenience , I sat down and thought about the how-to. Initially the typically physical mind engaged in a cure. I ran at the wall and stamped on it full on after jumping to get full momentum. Yep, futile.It softly absorbed the impact and remained intact.I remembered my early RTZ days of night flights (5 yrs old)and tried to leave that way. Again this was not permitted.I tried heating it up and this failed. I also had a good feel of every inch of the walls for a hidden door, again nothing. I sat down again and thoughts of being trapped permanently started to form. I pulled out of this the first time, fear getting in the way. It repeated the next night. I was trying everything physical world related and found nothing of any use no matter what tools I created. I sat down on the warm floor and contemplated my predicament. After a while I realised that creating a tool was half the answer as I was permitted to do this.It then became apparent, the answer was staring at me. Why bark when you have a dog?Making various tools to force the impossible was an action. Opening a door would also be an action and the door didn't exist.I made a door by thinking of a black line as an artist would, starting an outline and then filling in with all the trimmings. A wooden paneled door formed and I simply opened it wide. The other side was a black grainyness, so familiar to me. I left the room and entered the void.Lesson learned.This I have used many times to my advantage in many sticky situations. Recently pulling a character through a brick wall to safety and to get some undivided attention. It did both...

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There's far more where the eye can't see.Close your eyes and open your mind.

These lessons were many in number. Each one requiring resolution before the next. Being very young at that time and having absolutely no help from anything in this physical world the learning was difficult at times.For around 3 years previous to this I had to face my fears in various unkind situations. These nightmares dissipated the second I learned to let go and stop running away. The knowledge was so far my grasp, the books did exist but not for an 8 year old. Libraries were totally useless as you had to be 13+ to get into the reference section. They were mean places in the 60's. Lol... I had already read the encyclopedia Britannica and almost memorised the Oxford dictionary. Stupid grownups... Everything was against me, still my determination burned like a fire in a fireworks factory. There's no way I was going to surrender to these stupid illiterates. I now obviously have realised this incessant determination, once correctly directed, was of great use in the NP. Way back this wasn't even a thought.It certainly is a requirement in a retrieval. Some take you deep into your past fears and your memories flood in while you're strutting your stuff. The mental and emotional challenges in these are very powerful. Your instinct is to pull out and fast too. I've done this and the side effect haunts you for a long time. That's the main reason why failiure is not an option.There's so many early days memories returning at the moment and I'll select those that are related to training in connection with retrievals.

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There's far more where the eye can't see.Close your eyes and open your mind.

So interesting! Thanks for sharing these. I am wondering if others who do retrievals are tested in a similar way. Would be interesting to compare.

I think everyone is tested in one way or another, to prepare them for the Astral proper. Common sense is one of the things that is really needed for successful Retrievals. That and being able to think "on your feet".

A good way to find out how a member was possibly tested is to go to their profile and start at the beginning of their posts. You can read the profiles/posts of all members here. By doing this you can see how your own progression is coming along as well.

Many times before I actually post a reply to a person, I go to their profile and read their previous posts. This tells me quite a bit about them in general and also aides me in creating a reply that fits their situation and current mindset.

I think everyone is tested in one way or another, to prepare them for the Astral proper. Common sense is one of the things that is really needed for successful Retrievals. That and being able to think "on your feet".

A good way to find out how a member was possibly tested is to go to their profile and start at the beginning of their posts. You can read the profiles/posts of all members here. By doing this you can see how your own progression is coming along as well.

Many times before I actually post a reply to a person, I go to their profile and read their previous posts. This tells me quite a bit about them in general and also aides me in creating a reply that fits their situation and current mindset.

I see....Will do. BTW, How are you guys defining the astral proper? How do you tell the difference? I mean, all my experiences feel and seem completely real. How would I know if I was there or not?

The beginner stages were ALL in the RTZ. These are where you go to actual physical locations. Some differences randomly occur and these are from the minds of others who's memories have influenced the time space. I've noticed this in buildings that appeared smokey or partly translucent. These have been demolished and a view into the local history verifies these did exist.You are typically enjoying yourself as you learn to gain control of things like flying, hovering...You can go to houses and pull your friends from their body but they HAVE to become lucid and be themselves or they will not recall a thing.The astral proper is totally different in its feel. A few assimilated locations are a match to the physical but the ambience is totally different. As a likeness, a compilation of VGA black and white photos (RTZ) to a full colour high resolution virtual reality ( astral proper). The 'locales' available to you are infinate and some are pure colour with no form ( body or things of apparent substance). Everything in these is mentally oriented and telepathic in nature. The love you feel there is unlike anything on earth and you don't want to return at all.There's dark places too, these are horrid and the ambience presented instills a need to get away at all cost. Staying here itself is almost impossible, you get removed and sent to a nicer, more suitable location that fits your mindset and personality.I've used physical labels to effect a description as best I can. Its a concious awareness that's universal to all. The dark places are different for each of us as our interpretation will differ. My Badlands experiences were dark to me. To another they may be too much and scarey past sensibility causing long term side effects.Imagine being 8 years old in the hellish scenes from the film Constantine.I can relate to this setting, it's something I was in at that age. I learned a great deal there. I could handle it mentally and manipulating this environment was one hell of a few years of lessons.Nothing phases me now as a result. I'll spare the details, we have young members who may not be as composed as I.It's not something you'll experience. Not one posted or read experience has been made where the one having the experience has been placed outside of their capabilities.Possessing the patience of a saint gets tried. This with other developments are always within safe limits to the practitioner. Your limits are NEVER exceeded.It's safe and one aspect of your lifetime you may take with you to the next.That then becomes outside the context of this topic.

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There's far more where the eye can't see.Close your eyes and open your mind.

Thanks, Szaxx, for the really great description. I didn't realize that astral proper was everything 'not RTZ.' --Thought maybe there was some middle ground. Mine have been mixed since the beginning. Haven't had a RTZ one for quite a while, though. Funny you should mention the locale that's all color and no form. I was just there last night for the first time. Wow! Sooo beautiful!!

It's a wonderful place of mind, where nothing but love and kindness abounds. There's nicer places too. The ones I've rarely experienced, if not the same, are pure white light everywhere. You are all and all is you. It may be the source in its glory. The human mind really struggles to mix with this universal oneness. I am far from thick and with my massive experiences, I struggled to accept it's basics. My first visit was guided and I was rejected from it for being barbaric. It was my very first visit to the astral proper and part of my request to see heaven and hell. The oneness or it's represent authority was told of my innocence. I've thought about this recently and it appears that individuality is unknown to it. It may be threatening to the whole or perhaps classed as an insubordination. I had the feeling of rejection and left knowing I'd not return. My first implant and I never realised how powerful this action can be. I do them myself on occasion to serve a purpose. I had the answer to one of my questions in '69, It's just been answered by a recall of my first outing. Amazing isn't it.

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There's far more where the eye can't see.Close your eyes and open your mind.

I see....Will do. BTW, How are you guys defining the astral proper? How do you tell the difference? I mean, all my experiences feel and seem completely real. How would I know if I was there or not?

I used that term the "Astral proper", because you are on a Forum named the Astral Pulse. So, I figured I should stay with that term.

I prefer to use NP (non physical) as my terminology and I feel that anything that you are not aware of in this physical reality/realm, is indeed a NP experience. This can be a number of things, but I choose to put them into the same grouping. You may come at the NP/Astral from all kinds of different directions, but once you finally arrive and start logging your results, you start to find patterns that are the same.

The only thing I feel that is different is your level of awareness at the time and yes, that makes a huge difference in your initial interpretation of what is really happening.

How many times do find yourself an active participant in a Dream? You are so involved and it seems so vivid and "real", that you don't know the difference. You haven't quite gained full conscious awareness that indeed you are in a Dream. But, you still have the recall afterwards. If you did gain full conscious awareness you would find that it has taken a completely new form. That heightened awareness means everything!

How many time do you find yourself in a Daydream where it's the same vivid, realistic area. The only difference is most Daydreams are over very fast, then you return to this awakened reality again, but you usually don't have the grogginess that you did from awaking in the morning from a full night's sleep.

If you try creative visualization, at first it's hard to get any image at all. But, after about 20-30 minutes of doing it, you find yourself right smack in the middle of this vivid and realistic scenario.

All three of these are achieving the same goal. They are just coming at it from different paths.

Now with a Retrieval, you have to be fully consciously aware. You need to be able to alter the scenario at a moment's notice. You are deep in a zone where thought = action, so you must control those thoughts. The tests you will receive beforehand or training should I say, will see if you are ready to handle this.

My first Retrieval occurred spontaneously, but I was already put through a "classroom scenario" of sorts that prepared me for being able to at least function in the NPR consciously aware. One of the things I was shown quite early in my training was depth perception and this came from my early guide/mentor (deceased brother in law). He was doing a seminar on a huge stage. He then bent down and picked up a bow and arrow, aimed my way and shot it. I saw that arrow as it was flying towards me. This showed me how real this place really was, lol. Talk about 3D, in your face, lol. I spent quite a bit of time in those classrooms and was shown a number of things that were going to help me navigate my travels and the way I reacted to them. For the longest time I was told to "just observe" everything. Even today, I still have times where I am told to just observe.

I used that term the "Astral proper", because you are on a Forum named the Astral Pulse. So, I figured I should stay with that term.

I prefer to use NP (non physical) as my terminology and I feel that anything that you are not aware of in this physical reality/realm, is indeed a NP experience. This can be a number of things, but I choose to put them into the same grouping. You may come at the NP/Astral from all kinds of different directions, but once you finally arrive and start logging your results, you start to find patterns that are the same.

The only thing I feel that is different is your level of awareness at the time and yes, that makes a huge difference in your initial interpretation of what is really happening.

How many times do find yourself an active participant in a Dream? You are so involved and it seems so vivid and "real", that you don't know the difference. You haven't quite gained full conscious awareness that indeed you are in a Dream. But, you still have the recall afterwards. If you did gain full conscious awareness you would find that it has taken a completely new form. That heightened awareness means everything!

How many time do you find yourself in a Daydream where it's the same vivid, realistic area. The only difference is most Daydreams are over very fast, then you return to this awakened reality again, but you usually don't have the grogginess that you did from awaking in the morning from a full night's sleep.

If you try creative visualization, at first it's hard to get any image at all. But, after about 20-30 minutes of doing it, you find yourself right smack in the middle of this vivid and realistic scenario.

All three of these are achieving the same goal. They are just coming at it from different paths.

Now with a Retrieval, you have to be fully consciously aware. You need to be able to alter the scenario at a moment's notice. You are deep in a zone where thought = action, so you must control those thoughts. The tests you will receive beforehand or training should I say, will see if you are ready to handle this.

My first Retrieval occurred spontaneously, but I was already put through a "classroom scenario" of sorts that prepared me for being able to at least function in the NPR consciously aware. One of the things I was shown quite early in my training was depth perception and this came from my early guide/mentor (deceased brother in law). He was doing a seminar on a huge stage. He then bent down and picked up a bow and arrow, aimed my way and shot it. I saw that arrow as it was flying towards me. This showed me how real this place really was, lol. Talk about 3D, in your face, lol. I spent quite a bit of time in those classrooms and was shown a number of things that were going to help me navigate my travels and the way I reacted to them. For the longest time I was told to "just observe" everything. Even today, I still have times where I am told to just observe.

Thanks, Lionheart. Yea, I have been defining AP the same way.--As a projection with full conscious awareness. The thing I always have in the back of my mind is that I wonder if I interact with 'fake' people (thought forms) or are they conscious souls. When you guys said 'astral proper' I wondered if maybe the testing grounds were 'fake' people and the astral proper people were very obviously real ones. But it sounds like from all the reading I've done that you can never really be sure about that unless you get a validation.

My tests: stop an attacker--pass-- It was pretty easy! All the horrors of SP prepared me well. Lust--fail--I've gotten a little better but this is still a big problem. Helping people in need--pass--seems natural. manifesting thoughts/desires--sometimes pass sometimes fail. Last projection I came across a poodle with sickly looking eyes--all white with cataracts. I tried to heal him but couldn't do it.

My tests: stop an attacker--pass-- It was pretty easy! All the horrors of SP prepared me well. Lust--fail--I've gotten a little better but this is still a big problem. Helping people in need--pass--seems natural. manifesting thoughts/desires--sometimes pass sometimes fail. Last projection I came across a poodle with sickly looking eyes--all white with cataracts. I tried to heal him but couldn't do it.

I'm sure that many of us share the same "track record" as you have here. I found the hardest thing to control was lust though. I had no problem with horrors, healings, badlands, etc. But when it came to lust I would always get drawn into it, like I had no control over it at all.

Now, it has changed, but personally that was my biggest battle. Once again, I don't understand why because I am not like that in this physical reality. I think it has something to do with "Human Nature' in general.

I like your honesty on lust. I've not really had many experiences at all with lust. It's something I joke about in the physical as harmless banter. In the NP it's not presenting a memory at this time. I've nothing to recall. Looks like Im missing out lolPerhaps not, I'd never of been able to save Olivia in that retrieval.Ill have to think on this.

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There's far more where the eye can't see.Close your eyes and open your mind.

I am reading our above conversation on lust from 6 mo. ago, and thinking on whether I've made any progress! The underlying problem is still there but it seems I've learned to control myself lol. That's good news for me.

This doesn't seem to be a retrieval as far as 'retrieving' goes, but maybe just being a helper of some sort?

I phased to a place where a little boy of Indian descent (maybe 9 yrs. old?) was sitting all alone looking depressed. I sat next to him and tried to talk to him but he was very closed. I felt like I should just sit quietly with him and respect his space, and eventually, he opened up and we were able to talk a little. Seemed like he just needed love, so I held him in my arms and poured love energy into him. I stayed with him in this way for quite awhile and eventually phased back into the physical. In thinking about the experience later, I could have tried to take him somewhere, but I would have only been doing it because I've read that is what your supposed to do. In the experience itself, I never had the feeling I was supposed to take him anywhere, nor did a guide tell me I was supposed to. Figured I should wait for direction on that. Do you agree?

When you left did you FEEL his depression had gone.That's a successful job.As it's a one on one and probably your first, it may have been a test or more likely you've progressed with the control thing and now are deemed capable to help others.

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There's far more where the eye can't see.Close your eyes and open your mind.

Yes, I felt his depression had gone and felt I did what I was supposed to do, but the one thing I'm now wondering about is --do you have to be careful that the love energy doesn't get too strong? Can it ever be too much for them? I remember it getting very strong by the end and that's when I ended up back in the physical. --I didn't choose to go back. It just happened.

I think this timely removal was to show you how much is required. Each retrieval is different and NEVER beyond your capabilities. If you really think carefully, I'd guess you instinctively knew when the task was completed.A fast exit is typical in these early on. It's so your mind is on the task as you wake. Having a million questions floating around your head is one way to recall everything as you phase back to the physical. It cements the memory quite well and very little gets lost on waking.

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There's far more where the eye can't see.Close your eyes and open your mind.

Hope this doesn't de-rail the current conversation, but I was wondering if someone could explain to me what retrievals are? I've read about a dozen pages from this thread and have been enjoying reading about many different retrievals. But I'm not sure I understand exactly what they are. Are you coming to these people in their dreams to help them or what?

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It's hard to say that I'd rather stay awake when I'm asleep; because my dreams are bursting at the seams.

These people are trapped in some way, they can't move on. Many are stuck in a never-ending loop like in groundhog day. Sometimes a group need help like those crossing the border in WW II. Their fear of being shot manifests and this puts them in a loop.On occasion a whole realm needs help. This is rare and one massive challenge.You seemingly get taken away from your travels as they begin and get left there. Sometimes you know many details, sometimes you know nothing and are left to sort things out.Retrievals have a feel to them, you instinctively know you're on a mission.In the early days you have total physical recall from the start, once you've done a few hundred your memory gets restricted to what you need to know. On a few occasions you have no knowledge of the physical world whatsoever and you are in a totally new environment thats as real to you as this physical world.You know something needs your attention and failing this isn't an option.They are very real and can push you to your limits.

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There's far more where the eye can't see.Close your eyes and open your mind.

These people are trapped in some way, they can't move on. Many are stuck in a never-ending loop like in groundhog day. Sometimes a group need help like those crossing the border in WW II. Their fear of being shot manifests and this puts them in a loop.On occasion a whole realm needs help. This is rare and one massive challenge.You seemingly get taken away from your travels as they begin and get left there. Sometimes you know many details, sometimes you know nothing and are left to sort things out.Retrievals have a feel to them, you instinctively know you're on a mission.In the early days you have total physical recall from the start, once you've done a few hundred your memory gets restricted to what you need to know. On a few occasions you have no knowledge of the physical world whatsoever and you are in a totally new environment thats as real to you as this physical world.You know something needs your attention and failing this isn't an option.They are very real and can push you to your limits.

Wow, that is incredible. That sounds like something I will definitely be doing one day. So I assume these people who are trapped are dead and maybe don't know it? Obviously they are no longer in the physical realm if you are helping them in the astral, right? Also, do you choose when you go on a retrieval or does it sort of "happen to you"?

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It's hard to say that I'd rather stay awake when I'm asleep; because my dreams are bursting at the seams.

They mostly are unaware of their predicament.This applies to groups too.Some are relatively simple, you appear before them and show them the way to go. Then you have to engage those chasing them at a risk to yourself. I've been shot a few times and it hurts until you fix yourself. You're limited in your choices of actions too. This is not known at the time within the experience but you realise it before it's over.

I do sort of choose to do some, if I'm not ready they don't occur, being tired or partially lucid ends up as a standard dream. I have to get plenty of sleep first, they then occur at random. The bigger ones are rare and they are the best experience you can have.What you do is not your choice, your ability is seemingly assessed then it's go go go.

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There's far more where the eye can't see.Close your eyes and open your mind.

Wow, that is incredible. That sounds like something I will definitely be doing one day. So I assume these people who are trapped are dead and maybe don't know it? Obviously they are no longer in the physical realm if you are helping them in the astral, right? Also, do you choose when you go on a retrieval or does it sort of "happen to you"?

Great resources there, thanks for those links. I read through a dozen or so different retrieval stories and I think I am starting to understand them better. From what I understand, these are not necessarily the actual PEOPLE who are lost in the afterlife with some sort of problem, but it is usually an aspect of that person which they are struggling with?

For example, one guy helped a lady out who was digging in the mud for her baby that she believed was buried. He had to help convince her to move on and that her baby was ok no matter what happened, but that she wouldn't find him in there. This wasn't the actual woman's spirit somewhere in the astral plane, but just an aspect that represented the part of her that still deals with the sadness and depression of this loss?

Correct me if I'm wrong here.

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It's hard to say that I'd rather stay awake when I'm asleep; because my dreams are bursting at the seams.