When is someone going to make a zombie apocalypse game that's actually something like a zombie apocalypse? You know, barricading yourself in houses at night, scavenging for food and bullets, creeping around deserted gas stations trying to scrape together a few drops of fuel and some bandaids, tense encounters with other survivors or bandits, etc.

Every zombie game in the last few years seems to be YOU ARE IMMUNE NOW PUNCH ZOMBIES WITH A LAWNMOWER.

There are many game designers who don't know how to code. I was one of them, though I do now know how.

"Game designer" is a blanket term that encompasses many different job descriptions. A game designer can be someone who writes dialogue and story, to one who writes level design and monster design descriptions, to someone who focuses on game content and game balance such as items and their associated stats in an RPG, and even someone who codes actual game mechanics.

When is someone going to make a zombie apocalypse game that's actually something like a zombie apocalypse? You know, barricading yourself in houses at night, scavenging for food and bullets, creeping around deserted gas stations trying to scrape together a few drops of fuel and some bandaids, tense encounters with other survivors or bandits, etc.

Every zombie game in the last few years seems to be YOU ARE IMMUNE NOW PUNCH ZOMBIES WITH A LAWNMOWER.

It's a great idea, but the Arma 2 interface is so counterintuitive and communication is so difficult that the game really just consists of several hours sprinting through the woods and then getting shot by some random dude. I'd check back with them in a few months to see how they're coming along.

Epicedion:When is someone going to make a zombie apocalypse game that's actually something like a zombie apocalypse? You know, barricading yourself in houses at night, scavenging for food and bullets, creeping around deserted gas stations trying to scrape together a few drops of fuel and some bandaids, tense encounters with other survivors or bandits, etc.

When is someone going to make a zombie apocalypse game that's actually something like a zombie apocalypse? You know, barricading yourself in houses at night, scavenging for food and bullets, creeping around deserted gas stations trying to scrape together a few drops of fuel and some bandaids, tense encounters with other survivors or bandits, etc.

Every zombie game in the last few years seems to be YOU ARE IMMUNE NOW PUNCH ZOMBIES WITH A LAWNMOWER.

Young people who want to make video games always make me chuckle a little ...They have absolutely no understanding about how flipping much you need to know. I am a self-proclaimed indy developer. I have worked on various games/projects since I was about 14 on a C64. It still astounds me the amount of effort it actually takes to produce a quality game.

Most people don't actually want to make games once they find out what it takes. However, their imagination is admirable.

Also, how could anyone possibly make a decent game without the ability/skill to build custom shaders, custom AI, custom events, custom camera behavior, etc. etc. I could go on for an hour. The truth of the matter is, no matter how you look at it, they will be crappy cookie cutter, mod-like games.

natmar_76:"Game designer" is a blanket term that encompasses many different job descriptions. A game designer can be someone who writes dialogue and story, to one who writes level design and monster design descriptions, to someone who focuses on game content and game balance such as items and their associated stats in an RPG, and even someone who codes actual game mechanics.

In my experience, game designers know nothing about anything involving games, and yet they still are able to order people who do know stuff (artists and programmers) around.

/ Last year in HS I was Game & Simulation Design class, where we made games with the UDK... the game designer knew nothing about how to build games, but still ordered the artist and I( the programmer) around.//CSB??

I once had to explain to a project lead why we could not do real time reflections on curved/complex surfaces. Made the mistake of attempting to explain environment maps. God help me when I had to explain the z-order of rendering transparencies and why the artists needed to split up objects. That was a disaster of a project and deserved the horrible death that it got.

Designer: We need the impossible, and don't try to explain it to me!!!Developer: How can we manage fake it?

Rockstone:natmar_76: "Game designer" is a blanket term that encompasses many different job descriptions. A game designer can be someone who writes dialogue and story, to one who writes level design and monster design descriptions, to someone who focuses on game content and game balance such as items and their associated stats in an RPG, and even someone who codes actual game mechanics.

In my experience, game designers know nothing about anything involving games, and yet they still are able to order people who do know stuff (artists and programmers) around.

/ Last year in HS I was Game & Simulation Design class, where we made games with the UDK... the game designer knew nothing about how to build games, but still ordered the artist and I( the programmer) around.//CSB??

When a friend of mine was working at Realtime Worlds on the ill-fated APB, he tried his damndest to explain FPS basics to some of the higher ups.

Friend "Look, if person A is almost about to kill person B after a long battle, and person B grenades themselves at the last second to deny Person A the reward, Person A will be frustrated."

Exec "Well, we'll just penalize Person B for self-killing! Then Person A won't be pissed."

It's like they set about to make a Thrid-Person Shooter MMO without actually comprehending how people who play shooters think (at least, when there are rewards for kills.)

Poor guy has seen enough projects fail from the inside (He also worked on Star Trek Online) that he's relatively certain he could see the warning signs and prevent a project from outright imploding, if he were put in a position of power...

Perlin Noise:Young people who want to make video games always make me chuckle a little ...They have absolutely no understanding about how flipping much you need to know. I am a self-proclaimed indy developer. I have worked on various games/projects since I was about 14 on a C64. It still astounds me the amount of effort it actually takes to produce a quality game.

Most people don't actually want to make games once they find out what it takes. However, their imagination is admirable.

Also, how could anyone possibly make a decent game without the ability/skill to build custom shaders, custom AI, custom events, custom camera behavior, etc. etc. I could go on for an hour. The truth of the matter is, no matter how you look at it, they will be crappy cookie cutter, mod-like games.

Don't hate the game, hate the players. Angry Birds isn't popular because it is a monumental gaming achievement, it is easy to play and cute to look at. Unfortunately, popular pays the bills, while awesome is an opinion.

I once had to explain to a project lead why we could not do real time reflections on curved/complex surfaces. Made the mistake of attempting to explain environment maps. God help me when I had to explain the z-order of rendering transparencies and why the artists needed to split up objects. That was a disaster of a project and deserved the horrible death that it got.

Well, perhaps you can take comfort that you at least didn't Molyneux. I swear he's going to claim his next game will ALTER THE FABRIC OF SPACE AND TIME.

/I should note I'm not a programmer or developer or anything.//Just a physics grad student. But I have friends in the industry...

I have absolutely no issue with simple/casual games. They serve a wonderful purpose. I just don't like that we are beginning to breed out super users and developers who actually know how things work. We are starting to cater too much to the lowest common denominator.

Angry Birds is actually a good example ...there are about 100 physics/destruction games exactly like it, even before it was popular. There really is no reason that Angry Birds has made so much money... It may be fun and good for them, but ...uh ...why THAT one??

Honest Bender:Epicedion: When is someone going to make a zombie apocalypse game that's actually something like a zombie apocalypse? You know, barricading yourself in houses at night, scavenging for food and bullets, creeping around deserted gas stations trying to scrape together a few drops of fuel and some bandaids, tense encounters with other survivors or bandits, etc.

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Another great example of a zombie game with developers who don't know how to code well.

I have absolutely no issue with simple/casual games. They serve a wonderful purpose. I just don't like that we are beginning to breed out super users and developers who actually know how things work. We are starting to cater too much to the lowest common denominator.

Angry Birds is actually a good example ...there are about 100 physics/destruction games exactly like it, even before it was popular. There really is no reason that Angry Birds has made so much money... It may be fun and good for them, but ...uh ...why THAT one??

Cute art and merchandising. Unfortunately, lot of money has been made catering to the lowest common denominator. I would love to make an RPG with meaningful plot choices in a visual style similar to Final Fantasy 6, but I have a full time job, a wife and kid, and zero technical skills. I could spend the next 10 years using this engine to create my game and release it (I won't, but that is because I am also lazy) and it might not completely suck. I would never have that opportunity if something like this didn't exist.

I would definitely be annoyed as a professional in the game industry, just as I am sure most graphic designers are annoyed when some asshole with Photoshop thinks he is a genius when he makes a flyer using Comic Sans, unfortunately the only choice for the professional is to make games better than anything that can come out on the cookie cutter assembly line. Which I am sure most can, given enough time and money.

I totally agree with you. I think one of the other issues we are also having right now is an almost total dependency on third party middle ware. Don't get me wrong ..there is some goddamn amazing middle ware out there but even with a huge team of devs, you basically HAVE to shell out for the really good stuff.

It's sortta nice in a way. A dev team can concentrate on making the game work instead of the tech behind AI, 3d sound, fast rendering vegetation, networking, etc. However, its SUPER expensive.

Which is why systems like these make sense for someone with a great idea and the dedication to see it through and games that get promotion only come from major companies.

There are diminishing returns on marketing, but more marketing always equals more sales. For indie games, they have to prove the game will be successful before outside investors will pump in enough cash for advertising (Offer does not apply to Curt Schilling). So cutting the upfront costs to allocate for later advertising makes sense. Major labels can afford to promote a game no matter how broken it may be at release (and beyond).

Perlin Noise:Angry Birds is actually a good example ...there are about 100 physics/destruction games exactly like it, even before it was popular. There really is no reason that Angry Birds has made so much money... It may be fun and good for them, but ...uh ...why THAT one??

Simple attention-piquing title, family friendly, colorful, merchandise-able (stuffed birds you can hurl at each other? I mean, c'mon who could hate that?), consistent visual theme, easy to pick up, playable anywhere in any time window, and making it just challenging enough to perfect everything that the levels have some replay value. It's not groundbreaking in any aspect, but they did almost nothing wrong.

I certainly don't disagree, its just that even after all of that, it's still "same game, different developer". I feel the same way about many many other titles. The COD games, for instance. I mostly got over FPS games in the late 90s. RTS games are even worse. Lots of wash/rinse/repeat with better graphics. And good god, stop with the tower defense already.

Perlin Noise:its just that even after all of that, it's still "same game, different developer".

I think the important factor is really just execution. The idea wasn't new, but it was a perfectly executed version of the idea. It's the same reason that, despite all of the Tetris clones, nobody's ever made a version that has the same addictive nature as the original Tetris.

I certainly don't disagree, its just that even after all of that, it's still "same game, different developer". I feel the same way about many many other titles. The COD games, for instance. I mostly got over FPS games in the late 90s. RTS games are even worse. Lots of wash/rinse/repeat with better graphics. And good god, stop with the tower defense already.

/ok, I have to stop or the ranting will become irrational :P

Oh, I agree that there's a lot of stagnation, but I'd let CoD slide if it were $0.99 :)

I ran into one, I forget the name of it, have it on my machine, some coding but it's pretty basic and someone designed an analogue for Super Mario World on it complete with proper fx and the character's control responsiveness is pretty much perfect.

There are others to help you make your own games running in the SCUMM interface (Lucasarts: Monkey Island, etc) and ones to make games running in the SCI interface (SIERRA adventure games). Of course, that's not truly original if you are simply using the elements that made other peoples' games great to make whatever you're putting together.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with learning the coding necessary to utilize the Unreal engine since it's the go-to solution for fledgling game developers. No shame in not building your game completely from scratch, really. I have noticed that the Unreal engine games are frequently similar in feel, even when the artwork is different.

Did someone already cover that Game Designers almost entirely as a group don't know how to code? Good.

The closest we have here is a Designer who majored in CS but then changed professions when he realized coding was hard. Do you know how to use level editors and have a basic idea of what scripting is? Congrats! You are qualified to be a game designer!

t3knomanser:Perlin Noise: its just that even after all of that, it's still "same game, different developer".

I think the important factor is really just execution. The idea wasn't new, but it was a perfectly executed version of the idea. It's the same reason that, despite all of the Tetris clones, nobody's ever made a version that has the same addictive nature as the original Tetris.

Every genre of (fill in any form of human creative endeavor) has already been done. What defines seminal works is that they do something unique within the context of their genre (a Stradivarius violin) or are such a progression from existing works as to demand a new categorization (Jazz vs. Classical music).

So whenever a developer says their new game will redefine the history of gaming in a way never before seen...they think their game is:

but it ends up being:

We can only judge in comparison to everything else that has gone before and if you set out to make the best game possible, you will. If you set out to redefine gaming as the world knows it, you will fail. This is just one more tool to let good games be made. Lots of bad games too, but that happens anyway.