::I think that still could use some clarification, in an article with many tour listings, indeed. What criteria do you think we should use in judging the appropriateness or inappropriateness of tour listings in this article? [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 17:19, 19 August 2011 (EDT)

Revision as of 21:23, 19 August 2011

Hotel Sahara

> There is also the legendary and very friendly Hotal Sahara run by the Naamani brothers, Habib and Hassan.

What makes it more legendary than any other hotel in MHamid? --DenisYurkin 10:42, 19 November 2006 (EST)

In the meanwhile, I removed Legendary from the article--but still I'd be happy if you tell what makes it legendary. --DenisYurkin 18:42, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Will you stop nitpicking other people's descriptions if you have no personal experience of the place? The single word "legendary" usually means that the place is well-known in the backpacker community, and is a pretty good guarantee that it's decent. If you remove it, and just call it "friendly", this is lost. Jpatokal 22:42, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Isn't Wikitravel all about open discussion and consensus? What's wrong about asking a question that (in my belief) can clarify a listing? It was not obvious for me that legendary means exactly that (and it furthermore refers to backpacker community--how a reader is supposed to guess about that?)

Legendary has nothing to do with personal experience with a place per se--it's only about reputation, about place being famous etc. Do you mean that I should not try to improve any other's text? Otherwise, how would you recommend to resolve cases like this? --DenisYurkin 04:20, 27 January 2007 (EST)

If you have reason to doubt the description, then go ahead and pull it out — but what is your reason to doubt that the gulyas in Rab Raby is worth trying, or that the Hotel Sahara is not well known in M'Hamid? Jpatokal 04:45, 27 January 2007 (EST)

I've been in MHamid and participated in finding accommodation for our travel--but heard nothing legendary-like about Sahara. OK, it may be popular with backpackers (which sounds much clearer), or even legendary well-known among back-packers.

In general, I believe we should avoid characteristics like Legendary if we give no reasoning or details--it will help a reader understand what exactly is meant (again, legendary can have too much readings), and it helps to distinguish tout-style listings from real experience-based.

gulyas is probably the most typical and frequently served dish in Hungary--so recommending gulyas at a particular restaurant should have a strong reason

You answered a question, I updated the article and now it's bit more clear. But what's wrong about it? --DenisYurkin 05:18, 27 January 2007 (EST)

In a nutshell, I am trying to make these two pieces more helpful for a traveller choosing a place to eat in Szentendre or a place to stay in MHamid. I believe that changes I make and discussions I initiate move us a bit in this direction. --DenisYurkin 07:56, 27 January 2007 (EST)

Let me see how I can best express this. I went to Rab Raby in Szentendre, ate the gulyas and thought it was good enough to record in Wikitravel when I created the article a few years later. And when you went and removed this recommendation without what I would consider good reason (eg. ordering the gulyas yourself and finding that it's full of cockroaches), I was somewhat offended.

A fundamental Wiki principle is Assume Good Faith: if somebody adds information ("Try the gulyas"), the default assumption is that it's a valid recommendation (= the goulash is good). I see no reason for you to assume that this is "dubious", and it's certainly not the kind of important info that warrants pulling out until "verification" (by who, the Central Goulash Committee?). Jpatokal 05:17, 28 January 2007 (EST)

First of all, I never deleted the "Try the gulyas" phrase, not I marked it for verification--I only asked a question on details of this on a talk page. I don't see any bad in asking for clarifications.

Second, I acted from a typical traveller's point of view. I already spent several days in Hungary when I read the Szentendre article, and this phrase gave me no added information. It looked like this was the first (and the only) Hungarian restaurant author visited, and yes, he liked gulyas there. But it's like writing "try pasta" for a restaurant in Italy, or "try tajine" for a cafe in Morocco, or "try sushi" for a sushi bar in Japan.

This is why the following update sounds much better, and in my opinion it's much more helpful and useful compared to original version: "Gulyas soup is what the restaurant is most famous for, and it's served in a funky manner". Would you mind if we update Rab Raby with this edition? --DenisYurkin 14:59, 28 January 2007 (EST)

As for Hotel Sahara: can we be certain that "well-known among back-packers" is true, I mean it is really well-known and it's really most popular among back-packers? I'm still willing to improve the vague Legendary--but I want to be sure the improved version is still true. --DenisYurkin 15:03, 28 January 2007 (EST)

My mistake, I only meant to revert the last edit. Apologies. Jpatokal 05:17, 28 January 2007 (EST)

Questions

I do not know the area, so I'm reluctant to do major edits. Asking here instead.

Dar Sidi Bonou is listed under Do/trips, under Eat, and under Sleep. I think it should only be listed once, under Sleep, with mention of the other services.

Normal policy is not to list booking agents, only actual tour providers. Should "Sahara Services" and perhaps others be removed because of that policy? Also, "Sahara Best Travel" is based in Marrakesh so I'd say list it only there. Pashley 00:09, 28 September 2009 (EDT)

Sidi Bonou: support.

Sahara Services: originally it had "Chiri Biri" as an sub-item; I will find a way to fix it. But as long as we don't have contacts for the latter, I don't think we'll add value by removing Sahara Services (which is listed in LP, btw). --DenisYurkin 17:59, 29 September 2009 (EDT)

Tour listing criteria in this article

There is an entire category of "Camel trips and 4x4" in this article, so on what basis would listings be deleted under the Wikitravel tour policy, rather than for violating policies like "Don't tout" or putting up incomplete listings w/o rates, etc.? Ikan Kekek 04:11, 19 August 2011 (EDT)

I think that still could use some clarification, in an article with many tour listings, indeed. What criteria do you think we should use in judging the appropriateness or inappropriateness of tour listings in this article? Ikan Kekek 17:19, 19 August 2011 (EDT)