So, pass two is still underway, but I don't think I'll be putting the updates in bbcode for posting here. Instead I'm just going to wiki the whole thing for greater legibility and access and whatnot. Here's a direct link for anyone interested:

Thread title is actually a serious question. 3.x seems to want both magic users and skill monkeys, and then the system doesn't support skills becoming more powerful in the same way that spells become more powerful. They're not fighters, so there's no inherent bias against them, they just get linearly advancing skills to attempt to compete with non-linearly advancing spells and powers.

Quick aside: I am not interested in addressing the reverse phrasing of this issue, that spells scale too quickly and should be brought into line. There are some problem spells, but overall spells scale to challenges just fine. Further, I am just not interested in reducing spell power overall. This broadly means I'm looking at making skills less mundane as well as adjusting the scaling of the ones that sorta work already. If you don't think this is an attractive goal and you only have your preference to base that off of, kindly don't waste either of our time with complaints or derails.

I guess the fundamental complaint here is that skill growth doesn't open up any new options. It might make some old options more reliable, but skills as written don't do anything more at level 8 or 20 than they do at level 1. And that's lame. The problem probably comes from concern over when people get big enough bonuses to attempt or reasonably succeed at things. I don't really care if a 10th level rogue can balance on water for a while, but setting the DC low enough for that to happen at all reliably in the current system is going to make it possible for a 1st level rogue to do it as well, and I do care about that.

So why can't we add new uses to skills, and stick a rank minimum on them to limit their attempts to levels where we want those things happening? Take all of the ridiculously high DC epic skills uses, reduce the DC lots, and then not let people attempt the checks until they have a minimum rank in the skill. Tome feats did something along those lines and went a good way towards giving skills additional utility, but didn't address the issue of skills sucking on their own. The feats need to remain a solid step up in power, but the skills themselves shouldn't be ass.

Here's an example of what I'm getting at with the Acrobatics skill (balance & tumble joined skill):
[Edit] - Moved below with rest of completedish skills

It's probably not fleshed out enough, but it's certainly plenty to get the idea across. Skills get new uses as people invest ranks in them, and can get additional, more-powerful options from the skill if they also want to spend feats on them. The epic uses (that largely mimic mid level spells anyway) get brought down into regular 1-20 land with "you must be this tall to ride" signs stuck on them that keeps access to a particular level range. And if it strains your mind too much to think that a use just pops up at a certain rank, you can let people attempt it a rank early at -5 or something.

Any glaring problems with this that I'm overlooking? Or any solid non-preference reasons why this is a terrible idea?

[Edit]Original post preserved above for fun. Per Sinister's request, all skills will be reprinted in this post, at least until I hit max post length :-/

Acrobatics

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Untrained uses:Cross Narrow Surface – This isn’t squeezing through a tight space, this is sticking to a narrow ledge on a crumbly cliff or walking on a tight rope across a gap between buildings. As a move action, you can make an acrobatics check to cross narrow, precarious surfaces at half your base speed. You may take a -5 penalty to move at your full speed across precarious surfaces. You are flatfooted while moving over or on a precarious surface, and you must immediately make a new balance check if you take damage while you’re standing out there. The DC is determined by the surface width, as indicated in the table below, and further modified by the surface conditions.

Run Over Difficult Surface – Slippery or obstructed surfaces don’t lend themselves to heroic charges, since heroic slipping isn’t awesome. You can not run or charge over obstructed or uneven surfaces without succeeding on an acrobatics check. The base DC to charge or run over an uneven or sloped floor is 10, modified by the surface conditions below.

Tumble Around Opponents – Opponents with weapons generally stab you when you try to move around them. As a move action, you may move up to half of your base speed through unoccupied, threatened spaces without provoking attacks of opportunity. You may not tumble through liquid any deeper than your knee. You may take a -10 penalty to move at half speed through one or more occupied spaces, provoking no attacks off opportunity. You may take yet another -10 penalty to move at your full base speed instead of half speed. This check is made per creature you are tumbling past, and the DC is 10 + their base attack bonus, +2 for each enemy you have previously attempted to tumble past this round, and further modified by the surface conditions below.

Rank 6 uses:Competent Balancer – You are no longer flatfooted when balancing on a precarious surface.

Rank 8 uses:Tumble Into The Wind – If you know how to orient yourself, you can ride the air to the ground from nearly any height. With a DC 20 acrobatics check, you function as if under a feather fall spell for one round, falling only 60 feet and taking no damage if you land. The DC is increased by 1 for each subsequent check made during the same fall.

Rank 10 uses:Light As A Feather – With a DC 25 balance check, you can balance on an object that shouldn’t really be able to support your weight, like the top of a tree or your opponent’s outstretched sword. You can only defy gravity like this for 1 round, but you treat the object supporting you as solid ground until the round is up. This allows you to leap from treetop to treetop, stab your opponent in the face while standing on his blade, etc. If you are still on the object after 1 round, you sink to the ground as appropriate or can use other skills to maintain your position.

Run Over Water – Moving across things that you normally fall into requires a keen sense of balance and a bit of momentum. You can move across liquids without sinking into them, but unlike a narrow ledge it is easiest to do this while running. If you take a run action or a double move, you can stay on the surface of a liquid with a DC 25 balance check. Only taking a single move provides a -5 penalty, taking only a 5’ step provides a -10 penalty, and standing still provides a -15 penalty.

If you fail your roll, you mess up along the way and may sink. For every 1 point that you fail by, you lose 10% from your movement. If you failed the check by 4, for example, you would be unable to move across liquids at 60% of your movement. If you had passed over the liquid already you would suffer no penalties, otherwise you would sink at that point. If you fail by 10 or more you sink as soon as you touch liquid.

While you can move over the surface of a damaging liquid, like acid or lava or whatever, you’re not entirely protected from it. You take only minimum damage from it, and are only required to make saves for conditions arising from exposure, not from immersion. This damage does not prompt a new check, but damage from spells or weapons would prompt an immediate new check; the results of this check only replace your original check if they are worse.

Rank 12 uses:Dance on Clouds – Once you can run on water, dancing on clouds is the next step. With a DC 27 acrobatics check you can run on clouds, smoke, exhaust, snowflakes, etc.; if you can see it in the air you can use it as a floor. The same penalties for reduced speed movement apply here as well. This use is subject to the same movement restrictions as the Air Walk spell. You must still make a new check every time you take damage.

While you can move on top of damaging gasses, like acid fog or cloudkill or whatever, you’re not entirely protected from it. You take only minimum damage from it, and are only required to make saves for conditions arising from exposure, not from immersion; you are not considered to be in the area of the spell. This damage does not prompt a new acrobatics check, but damage from spells or weapons would prompt an immediate new check; the results of this check only replace your original check if they are worse.

Rank 14 uses:Skip on air – After you can dance on clouds, it’s not really a stretch to skip on the air between them. With a DC 30 acrobatics you can balance on the air itself. The same penalties for reduced movement apply here as well. This use is subject to the same movement restrictions as the Air Walk spell. You must still remake this check every time you take damage.

Animal Handling

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Untrained Uses:Ride – You can ride a mount, whether it’s running, swimming, or flying. This is generally a free action or part of another action, but you may have to work to keep less trained horses under control. The DCs for the actions you can push a mount to do are included in the table below. Some combat actions require a mount to be trained to be trained for use in combat, and you suffer a -10 penalty on animal handling checks if you use a non-trained mount. If you fail the check to perform the action by 5 or less, you must spend a move action on completing the task.

You can also stand on your mount while riding with a DC 20 check. You can perform actions while standing on your mount if you accept a -10 penalty to your check. If you fail a check by more than 5 while standing you fail the attempt and also fall off.

Rank 4 Uses:Train Animal – You can train animals for a certain task or teach them specific tricks. You can also rear wild animals so that they become slightly domesticated. The DC is the basic training DC of the task (all in book dropped by 5), plus the CR of the animal. You can also train magical beasts if you take a -3 penalty to your result, and vermin if you take a -6 penalty. You gain a bonus or penalty to this roll based on the animal’s attitude towards you.

You make the check before you begin training the animal. If you meet the DC, it takes one week to train the animal. If you exceed the DC by more than 5, you train the animal in just three days. If you exceed the DC by more than 10, you train the animal in one day. If you fail the check by 5 or less, it takes two weeks to train the animal. If you fail the check by more than 5 the animal is unable or unwilling to learn the trick from you. This result is the length of time you have to invest to teach the animal the trick, whether you start tomorrow or next year. You can not retry this check until the situation improves, such as you increasing your maximum rank in the skill or the animal’s attitude towards you changing positively.

You can not train any creature with an intelligence score of 3 or above. Those creatures are actually sentient, and can’t be ‘trained’ to perform tricks in this way. You can show them the trick, provide incentives to perform it on command, and help them to get it right, but that’s about it. There are no hard and fast times for a creature to learn these things. If they like you they’re more willing to learn or perform tasks, and if they hate you they may never learn it at all.

Rank 6 Uses:I’m A Friend – Animals like you. With a successful animal handling check opposed by 1d20 + the creature’s CR + their Chr modifier you positively change the attitude of an animal by one step. You can change the attitude of a magical beast with a -3 penalty, and vermin with a -6 penalty. For each 5 points that you exceed their check by, you can shift their attitude one additional step. In no case can you shift an animal’s or beast’s attitude beyond helpful. This action requires 1 minute (10 full round actions), though it can be rushed if you accept a -10 penalty. You can affect no more animals than your ranks in animal handling at one time.

This shift is a natural shift in attitude, and is not enforced by anything. If you mistreat or disappoint an animal while their attitude has been changed, they are likely to respond more negatively than before. Even if you don’t mistreat them, their attitude will likely revert back to its original level unless you spend time earning it.

You may not retry this check during the same encounter, but you may use it on a beast multiple times over multiple meetings. It is very difficult, however, to repeat the effect and make progress with a creature you have previously used this ability on. After the initial time you use this on an animal, they are treated as Hostile for purposes of this check (though their actual attitude towards you may be different).

Rank 8 uses:Whoa There – A hungry, rabid animal is more likely to see you as a meal or a target than something to be avoided. With just a moment, you can delay a hostile animal or magical beast from attacking you, as long as they do not speak your language. As a standard action, you can make an animal handling check opposed by 1d20 + the creature’s CR + their Chr modifier. If you succeed, they will not approach within 10 feet of you nor attack you before your next turn. If you wish to delay them after that point, you must succeed on the opposed check again on your next turn or give them some other reason not to attack, such that they change their mind on their own. Any obvious attempt at escape as well as any obviously aggressive action by you or your allies automatically ends this effect, leaving the animals free to do as they like.

Rank 10 uses:Through The Hoop – Animals like doing what you ask of them. If you exceed your training check DC by 15 or more, you can teach them a trick in just an hour. If you exceed the DC by 20 or more you can teach them in just a minute.

Appraise:

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Appraise still isn't awesome, but it at least scales and remains relevant over all levels. It doesn't supplant any Tome abilities or feats I can find. It sorta supplants the Appraise Magic Value feat from Comp Adventurer, but a minor adjustment to the feat or skill would sort that if anyone cared.

Untrained Uses:Appraise Common Items – When you’re out shopping, it’s nice to not be ripped off by the merchants. If you spend 1 minute examining an item, you can appraise common or familiar goods and objects. You can not appraise uncommon, rare, or exotic items untrained. The DC for this check is 10, and the check is made by the DM so you don’t know if you’re wrong. If you fail, you guess that the item is 50% to 150% (2d6+3 times 10%) of its actual value. Yes, this means you can fail the check but still get the price right.

You also use appraise to see past knockoffs and forgeries. If you exceed the DC to detect the forgery, you learn the real value of the item and know that it was doctored to appear more valuable. If you succeed on the DC to appraise an item but do not exceed the DC to spot the forgery, you learn the false value of the item as set by the forger.

Rank 1 Uses:Appraise Anything – You know what you’re looking for, and have a fair idea of what almost anything is worth. In addition to common items, you can also appraise uncommon, rare, exotic, and one-of-a-kind items; the DC for this check is set by the DM: uncommon items should have a DC no higher than 15 and rare or exotic mundane items should have a DC no higher than 20 in general. You may also appraise magical items; the DC for these is 12 + the caster level needed to create the item. A successful appraisal doesn’t mean you know what it is of course, just that you have an approximate idea of its value and power level.

Some items, like artifacts or jewelry pieces with high emotional value to wealthy kings, are fundamentally un–appraisable and likely to return a completely wrong objective measure of their worth. These should be rare; otherwise this skill is worth considerably less and you should petition your DM to allow you to completely reallocate all of the skill points you spent here. The ability to appraise common goods is simply not meaningful after you stop dealing in them, and that’s what you may be left with.

Rank 4 Uses:Forgery – Attention to detail can go both ways, allowing you to find or create forgeries and knockoffs. Anything that you can create, you can create in ways that make it look like something official or more expensive. You can create fake documents for example, make a normal sword appear to be a masterwork one, or remove the signs from a barrel of fish that would indicate its low quality. There is no set time for use of this ability as it strongly depends on what you’re working on. The DC to detect your forgery is the base DC to appraise the item, + your ranks in appraise, less some special modifiers that depend on the type of object you are working with. If you’re attempting to sell a rare or exotic item for more than it is worth, and the buyer has never seen it before, you should be using bluff instead of appraise to sell it to them. Con games aren’t covered by this ability.

If you are working with art objects or sundries, you suffer a -1 penalty for each additional 10% of apparent value. For items with bullshit inflated market values, like weapons or artwork from a specific artist, you suffer a -2 penalty for each category improvement you wish to show, such as from damaged to standard to masterwork. It is much easier to gain an increase in sales price by adding a brand to it than to simply make it look nicer.

For documents, you suffer a -5 penalty if you’ve only ever glanced at an original, and a -5 penalty for each security measure included in the document (such as special paper or ink you are imitating, watermarks, or arcane marks). You suffer no penalty to forge a document you are familiar with, but you gain a +2 bonus if you have a sample on hand to copy from. You must have at least glanced at an original to make a forgery of something (otherwise you’re just creating something and attempting to bluff with it), and you must be familiar with the written language if you don’t have a sample on hand to copy.

Seeing past the forgery to an item’s true worth is covered by earlier appraise abilities, as explained above. Seeing past forged documents can be done with either an appraise check or a perception check against the above DC.

Rank 6 Uses:
Eye for Magic – If you succeed on your appraise check by 2 or more you know if the item is magical, unless it is an artifact, in which case you still don’t know what it’s worth or that it’s magical.

Rank 8 Uses:Identify Magic Items – You’ve learned enough about items that you can identify them fairly accurately as well. If you succeed on your appraise check by 5 or more, you can spend an hour to fully identify a magical item. You are unable to identify artifacts in this fashion.

Rank 14 Uses:Enhance Object – ... ...
I can’t think of a way to write this that makes mechanical sense, but I’m also not particularly familiar with Tome special materials. I set it at this level so that it’s slightly after wish economy, when the materials probably become available, but someone else who knows more about them should really do something with it.

Book of Gears Adjustment: If you’re using Book of Gears material, the DC to identify a magic item is 20 – Item caster level and can be attempted untrained. Eliminate the rank 6 ability.

Athletics

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Untrained usesClimb and Hang – Walls and barriers are meant to be overcome, and it’s often easier to climb over it than smash it down. As a move action, you can make an athletics check to move one-quarter your normal speed up, down, or across a wall or steep incline. A slope is defined as an incline between 45 and 60 degrees, a wall is an incline 60 degrees or greater. The DC for this check is found on the tables below, and modified as appropriate; you can not even attempt to climb a slope or wall with a base DC of 30 or greater at this time. If you succeed on the check, you can move one-quarter of your base walking speed as a move action or one-half your speed as a full round action. If you exceed the check DC by 5 or more you can move up to double the expected distance. If you fail by 5 or less you maintain your position but waste your action. If you fail the check by more than 5, you slip and fall. If you take damage exceeding your athletics ranks while climbing, you must immediately make a new check to maintain your position, falling if you fail the check by 5 or more and maintaining your position otherwise.

If you fall, catching yourself is difficult. The DC to catch yourself while falling past a wall is the wall’s climb DC + 20. The DC to catch yourself while sliding down a slope is the slope’s DC +10. If a friend is beneath you and makes a successful touch attack against you, he can attempt to stop your fall with an athletics check (surface DC + 10). The penalties for failure of this check are the same as any other climb failure. This is why most climbers secure themselves with ropes and pitons.

You need both hands to make any progress while climbing. You may use one hand to steady yourself while attacking or casting a spell with your other hand, but you may not progress up the surface in the same round. You are less able to dodge blows while you are holding on to a wall, and you lose your dexterity bonus while climbing. You can not use a shield while climbing.

Long term climbing is very difficult if the conditions are too difficult for you to take 10 on the check; the likelihood of failing and falling to the bottom in as short a period as one minute is simply too high. If you can take 10 you probably won’t fall off, but instead you run the risk of fatigue. Climbing will tire you out, but not as quickly as flat running. At this level of training, each 10 rounds of climbing reduces to 1 round of running, allowing you to climb for 1 minute per point of constitution and make checks each additional minute after you reach that limit. The base DC for this check is 10 or the DC of the surface you are climbing, whichever is greater. Unlike running, you may continue to climb while fatigued, it’s even likely you’ll have to if you don’t want to fall off and haven’t affixed yourself with ropes and pitons, but you suffer penalties for doing so. While resting against a slope or wall, you may only use your move action to retain your position.

Special: Creatures with a climb speed get a +8 bonus on this check, and may take 10 regardless of ranks or danger. They do not need to make checks to move and always move their full climb speed as a move action. They may make checks to avoid special hazards or perform special maneuvers. Climbing is no more tiring than walking for these creatures. They may take a run action with their climb speed; the length of time that they can take this run action is the same as if they were running on land.

Pull Up – If you’re hanging on the edge after a jump, or just want to pull yourself up over the ledge of that smooth wall, you do so with a move action and a DC is 15 athletics check. Pulling yourself up uses half of your movement action, standing up finishes the action off.

Swim – Sometimes the moat is too wide or you’ve walked the plank, and water is just one more obstacle to overcome. The swim ability is used to traverse liquids you can’t generally walk on, like water, acid, lava, and other fun things. Each round you are suspended in liquid, you must make an athletics check. The DC is indicated in the table below, and modified by conditions as appropriate. If you succeed on the check, you can move one-quarter of your speed as a move action or one-half your speed as a full round action. You can also choose not to move, in which case you tread water as a free action and can take other actions as appropriate. If you exceed the check DC by 5 or more you can move up to double the expected distance. If you fail your check by 5 or less, you must spend a move action to tread water and can make no forward progress this round. If you fail by more than 5 you fail to stay above water, begin to sink, and must hold your breath to avoid drowning. Fatigued characters suffer a -4 penalty to these checks. Exhausted characters suffer a -8 penalty to these checks, and can make no progress even on a success; they must tread water until they have rested enough to continue on.

You are less able to dodge blows while trying to kick and pull yourself through a liquid, and you do not gain your Dex bonus to AC while swimming.

Long term swimming is very difficult if the conditions are too difficult for you to take 10 on the check; the likelihood of failing and sinking to the bottom in as short a period as one minute is simply too high. If you can take 10 you probably won’t drown, but instead you run the risk of fatigue. Swimming will tire you out, but not as quickly as flat running. At this level of training, each 10 rounds of swimming are treated as 1 round of running, allowing you to swim for 1 minute per point of constitution and make checks each additional minute after you reach that limit. The base DC for this check is the DC of the liquid and conditions you are swimming through, modified by subdual damage and previous checks as normal. Unlike running, you may continue to swim if you are or become fatigued, it’s even likely you’ll have to if you don’t want to drown, but you suffer penalties for doing so. While resting in a liquid, you may only use your move action to tread water.

Special: Creatures with a swim speed get a +8 bonus on this check, and may take 10 regardless of ranks or danger. They do not need to make checks to move and always move their full swim speed as a move action. They may make checks to avoid special hazards or perform special maneuvers. Swimming is no more tiring than walking for these creatures. They may take a run action with their swim speed; the length of time that they can take this run action is the same as if they were running on land.

Rank 4 uses:Brachiation – There are lots of places where it’s easier to swing around instead of walk. Swinging by your arms and occasional leg, you can move through tree branches, jungle vines, banquet hall chandeliers, complex monkey bars, etc. at half of your base land speed. This is considered a natural base speed so you can run and charge at no penalty, but you need both of your arms free to assist your movement. If one hand is full, you may only take a single move action in this fashion before you have to return to the ground.

Tri-Athlete – Before there were bikes, there was rock climbing. Men ran, and climbed, and swam. You can run for two rounds per point of your Constitution score, and after you reach this limit you make checks for each additional two rounds of running. This also means that you can hustle, climb, or swim for two minutes per point and walk for 20 minutes per point. The base DC for fatigue checks after this point is 15 or the DC of the terrain you’re crossing +5, whichever is less, modified as usual by subdual damage and previous checks since last rest. Standard penalties for failing these checks apply. You must rest for the length of equivalent time spent running or two minutes, whichever is less, to eliminate fatigue and be considered fully rested. Exhaustion still clears after just one minute, and it must be cleared before you begin resting to clear fatigue or reset your previous check counter.

Fleet of Foot and Arm – When making an athletics check to determine your climbing or swimming distance, you move one-half of your speed on a successful check and your full speed if you succeed by 5 or more. You are still limited to a single move as a standard action or a double move as a full round action however.

Touch of a Spider – You may attempt to climb surfaces with a base DC of 25 and above, or a surface with a base DC up to 20 that has been modified by conditions to have a DC up to 30.

Rank 8 uses:Arms of a Monkey – You've got some nice coordination and muscle strength. Your brachiation speed is now equal to your land speed. You may also brachiate with one hand occupied at half speed.

Einhander – You only need one hand free to climb walls. You can still progress up a surface in the same round as you use your other hand for a non-climb action. If you use both hands for an action, or you bring a shield to bear, you can not make any progress up the surface for that round.

Paragon Athlete – Tri-athletes speak of you in hushed tones, marveling at your prowess. You can run for one minute per point of your Constitution score, and after you reach this limit you make checks for each additional minute of running. This also means that you can hustle, climb, or swim for ten minutes per point and walk for 100 minutes per point; you could probably stop worrying about walking at this point. The base DC for fatigue checks after this point is 20 or the DC of the terrain you’re crossing +10, whichever is less, modified as usual by subdual damage and previous checks since last rest. Standard penalties for failing these checks apply. You must rest for 3/4 the duration of your run or eight minutes, whichever is less, to eliminate fatigue and be considered fully rested. Exhaustion still clears after just two minutes minute, and it must be cleared before you begin resting to clear fatigue or reset your previous check counter.

This ability supersedes the standard running rules and the Tri-Athlete ability.

Torpedo – If you succeed on a swim check by 10, you may move four times your base rate as if you had a natural swim speed and were taking a run action. Each round of swimming in this way counts as one round of running.

Rank 10 uses:Touch of a Gecko – You may attempt to climb surfaces with a base DC of 30 and above.

Rank 12 uses:Run Into the Sunset – You can run for a half hour per point of your Constitution score. When you have run to that limit, you must make an Athletics check, and an additional one for each additional half hour that you run. The DC for this check is 25 or the DC of the terrain you are crossing +15, whichever is less, modified as normal for any subdual damage taken or previous checks. Standard penalties for failing these checks apply. You must rest for the half the duration of your run or 8 hours, whichever is less, before you are fully rested and can run in this fashion again; most characters just sleep it off at this point. Exhaustion gained from this ability clears in 15 minutes.

This also means that you don’t tire from any movement short of a full run in any reasonable time, and you should probably stop tracking them entirely unless you’re at it for days without stopping. This ability supersedes the standard running rules and the Tri-Athlete and Paragon Athlete abilities.

Bluff:

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Feint was left out because it's a well defined combat action already. I'm also considering moving it to Legerdemain anyway, since it seems to fit the theme of that skill better in my mind. If it stays here, combat distraction my be removed or reworked since they're so close in function.

Untrained Uses:Combat Distraction – If you just need to buy yourself a moment to escape, it’s hard to beat the old “Hey, what’s that behind you!” The DC for this bluff check is equal to your opponent’s perception or melee attack bonus (whichever is higher) +10. On a successful check, you may take one unwatched move action. Your bluff lasts just long enough for you to hide nearby or get a running head start, and those can be invaluable if you have to escape. Anyone that you distract with this ability does not threaten you during your move action, but they are not considered flat footed and retain their Dex bonuses to AC. If you are facing multiple attackers, you must generally beat the highest DC or the check is a failure as someone will observe the action you take.

Innuendo – Words can mean different things to different people, and you can use that to pass secret messages to others during public conversations. With a DC 15 bluff check you can get simple messages across; complex messages or messages with new information require a DC 20 bluff check. Failing this check by 4 or less means that no information was passed, but failing by 5 or more indicates that incorrect information was passed.

Lie – You generally want people to believe what you tell them, especially if it isn’t the truth. Your bluff check is a measure of how good a lie you’ve told; you gain a modifier to your check based on the content of the lie. To detect your lie, targets must exceed your bluff check with a perception check of their own; if they don’t exceed your check result they have no reason to suspect that you are lying and believe what you have told them.

Rank 4 uses:Improved Feint – You can feint as a move-equivalent action. If you wait until next round to attack the target, they are only flat-footed against your next attack even if you take a full attack action.

Rank 8 uses:Liar’s Aura – There are many situations where you don’t want people to be able to detect your ethical leanings, because they would probably put your head on a spike. Anytime you are subject to a spell or effect that would interact with your alignment (such as Detect Good, Protection from Evil, or Blasphemy), the caster must succeed on a caster level check (DC 5 + your Bluff modifier). If they fail this check you can choose to be treated as having either your natural alignment or a Neutral alignment. You must make this decision before you know what the effects of the spell are. If they succeed on the check you are treated as having your natural alignment. This is a reflexive ability that does not use an action. It occurs without your character’s knowledge.

You can also take a more active role in modifying your alignment. With a DC 25 bluff check you can set your alignment to whatever you’d like; this check is made secretly by the DM so you don’t know if you succeed or fail. Masking your alignment in this way requires one minute of concentration, but once set it remains for 24 hours or until you lose consciousness, whichever comes first. When you are subject to effects that interact with alignment, you are treated as having the alignment you chose if the caster fails at their check. Magic items are also fooled by your new alignment, and will function as if this was your natural alignment.

Rank 10 uses:False Thoughts – It is generally bad for your health to show the thought police what you actually think of them. Whenever you are subject to a spell or effect that would give another access to your thoughts or memories, the caster must make a caster level check (DC 5 + your bluff modifier). If they fail, they gain access to a false set of thoughts or memories, made up on the spot by your well trained sub-conscious mind. These thoughts and memories are sufficient to distract a casual invader, but they do not hold up to close scrutiny. For each minute that they eavesdrop on your mind, the caster is allowed a new caster level check; they gain a cumulative +2 bonus on this check each time beyond the first. This is a reflexive ability that does not use an action. It occurs without your character’s knowledge.

With a bit of effort, you can construct a very specific set of thoughts that does stand up to scrutiny. If you spend a full minute in concentration and succeed on a DC 28 bluff check, you can craft a more coherent set of false thoughts, making it harder for eavesdroppers to break through. You decide what thoughts will occupy your false mind; as long as these thoughts are expected or relevant for the person eavesdropping they do not get to make any checks beyond the first. Additionally, you can set your apparent intelligence score to any number 3 through 18, so that anyone detecting your mental abilities detects this apparent mental state.

Rank 12 uses:Not the One You’re Looking For – You can already lie about most things that would give you away, and now you can even lie about being ‘you’ in a deep, fundamental sense. You can trick scry sensors and location divinations into ignoring you. If you are targeted by a scrying spell or other sensor that allows a save, you may choose instead to make a Bluff check at -5. If your check exceeds the save DC, the sensor is unable to detect you. If you like you can even choose for it to follow someone else around.

Against other location divinations, many of which allow neither save nor spell resistance, the spell’s caster must succeed on a caster level check that exceeds 5 + your Bluff modifier to locate you. If they do not succeed on this check the spell does not return a result. Like other divination foiling Bluff abilities, this occurs reflexively, without your character’s knowledge, and does not use an action.

Ciphers (Speak Language and Decipher Script hybrid)

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Special: Each point, up to 5, that you put into Ciphers allows you to speak one additional language. You can learn its written form with one week of study. You must receive approval from your GM before learning any secret or planar languges.

Rank 1 uses:Decipher Script – You’ve seen a few dusty tomes and can make sense of unfamiliar languages in them. You can decipher writing in languages you don’t read as well as piece together messages in incomplete or archaic forms. The base DC for this check is based on the content of the message. The shortest, simplest messages only require a DC 20 check. A longer or more detailed message, like a letter to family or a troop deployment, might be a DC 25 check. A complex or intricate message, like a legal document or a complete war strategy, would be a DC 30 check. These checks can be modified up to 5 higher if the language is particularly bizarre or ancient. If the script contains a hidden or coded message, you must exceed the DC of that component to understand that portion of the message.

You do not know the DC of the check before hand. The check takes 10 full round actions per page of text, though you may check for each page separately. If you fail the check by more than 5, you learn nothing. If the check fails by less than 5, you have drawn a false conclusion from the text or otherwise misunderstood its meaning. If you succeed on the check you understand the general meaning of the document, but may be missing some specifics. You may retry a page once, regardless of your success or failure, spending an hour combing over the page for missed details. If you succeed, you have a more complete translation on hand and can glean finer details from the work. If you fail this check by less than 5 you lack potentially crucial details but do not have a mistaken impression of the work.

Rank 4 uses:Cryptography – Words can be hidden in symbols, numbers, or even other words if you’re worried about someone else finding them. You can analyze these hidden or coded messages. The DC is determined by the strength of the code, the length of the message, and the availability of other messages written in the same code. You gain a cumulative +2 bonus to deciphering messages using a code you have already broken; if you decrypt 5 messages in the same code you do not need to check further to break any future messages that use it, and may compose messages in the code yourself.

Aside from analyzing them, you can also create codes on your own. You can create codes with a decryption DC up to 15 + your ranks in Ciphers. It takes 4 hours to create a new code, less 1/2 hour for each 1 point less you accept for the DC, to a minimum of 30 minutes. You can generate messages in any code that you have on hand or have analyzed, whether you created it or not, regardless of decryption DC.

Translate Scroll – Magic users often have ridiculous notation and idiosyncrasies in writing that make others cringe. You can read through that nonsense to find the magic stored beneath. With a DC 15 + Caster Level check you can identify the spells stored in spell completion items like scrolls.

Rank 6 uses:Acquire Tongue – Your knowledge of languages makes it easy for you to pick new ones up. You no longer select new languages after you gain 6 ranks in this skill. Instead, anytime you are exposed to a language you do not speak, you get to check to see if you learn it. The DC for this check is at least 30, languages that use a very different structure or sounds may have a higher DC. For each day that you are exposed to this language continually you gain a new check with a +2 cumulative bonus.

Understanding their tongue does not give you the ability to write their language. Learning the written form of a language takes one week or more, depending on whether they use a similar alphabet, pictograms, etc. The exact time is determined by the GM, but anything over 1 month should be a rare and extraordinary circumstance.

Rank 8 Uses:Rosetta Stone – You know your way around a text, even when it’s written in a dead language. You never have to make a check to read ancient, obscure, forgotten, or even alien or planar languages. You need to spend some time familiarizing yourself with the language and writing structure, however; this time may be anywhere between 5 minutes and 8 hours depending on the complexity of the language and topic and is determined by the GM. Once this time has been spent, you can freely read the text as quickly as you read anything else. Further, you actually understand the literal complete text, not just the general idea. Sadly, this does not free you from the limitations inherent in an “inadequate concept background” or “poorly translating idiom”. So while you could translate a book about quantum mechanics, this ability gives you no greater insight into its mechanics than the words on the pages. This ability only translates actual languages, and has no ability to break underlying codes or secret messages or pull messages from intentional gibberish.

Rank 10 Uses:If Books Could Kill – You’re familiarity with writing and symbols has made you familiar with their magical variants. Spells such as Explosive Runes, Sepia Snake Sigil, and the various Symbols can be triggered during reading, and you are prepared for them. If you are about to trigger a magical effect by reading it, you are entitled to a Ciphers check (DC 15 + Caster Level) to avoid triggering it entirely. If you avoid triggering it, you may use your Ciphers skill to disable it as if it were a magical trap (DC 15+ Caster Level).

You are also well versed in placing such traps, if they are a part of your class abilities. You may use your Ciphers ranks in place of your caster level when determining how difficult it is for others to notice and avoid your magical scribbling, but this does not increase any other aspects of the spell.

Devices (short for disable device and open lock)

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The rank 10 ability sorta steps on the rank 14 Professional Luddite feat ability. That looks like a standard action though, while this isn't, and that difference in speed still makes it worthwhile. Especially if failure in that just allowed you to roll right on into the regular ability.

Untrained uses:Smash simple devices – You can disable a lever or pulley, and other obvious, relatively simple stuff. Simple devices also include simple solutions, suck as jamming a lock so it is unusable. In general, you may disable any device with a DC of 10 or less. This can be done as a full round action, with a successful check. If you fail the check by 5 or more, you trigger the device instead. If you wish to hide your work so the device appears untampered, increase the DC by 5. You may retry this check if you have reason to believe the check failed, and a retry would still be appropriate.

Since you don’t know the disable DC of a particular device, you can attempt to disable anything you want with this ability. Attempts to disarm Tricky (DC 11 to 15) or Difficult (DC 16 to 20) are treated as attempting to use the rank 1 ability, and subject to the standard disable length and a -5 check penalty.

Rank 1 Uses:Disable Tricky and Difficult Devices - You’ve learned a bit about how these things work, and can successfully disable more difficult devices. Tricky devices include traps with DCs between 11 and 15, as well as straightforward sabotage of mechanical devices like weapon handles or wagon wheels. Difficult devices include all traps with a DC between 16 and 20, as well as more complicated sabotage like bowstrings that snap on first use. Tricky devices require 1d4 rounds to disable, the check is made after the time is invested. Difficult devices require 2d4 rounds to disable. If you fail the check by 5 or more you trigger the device instead. If you succeed by 10 or more you learn how the trap operates, and can bypass it without disabling or triggering it. Alternately you can temporarily disable it; it requires only a standard action to re-enable it later on. If you wish to rush the job, you may add 10 to the DC for each d4 of time you wish to eliminate. 2d4 to 1d4 would add 10 for example, and 1d4 to 1 would add another 10 to the DC.

You can also use this ability to sabotage devices and hide your work. For example, you could rig a wagon wheel to break after a mile or a clock to fail at precisely midnight. The DC for these tasks must be lower than 20 for you to attempt it with this ability.

Rank 4 Uses:Disable Fiendish Devices – You’ve got all the basics down and can attempt to disable anything you run across. You also understand the core concepts in disabling placed magical traps. You can attempt to disarm any mechanical trap with a DC of 21 or higher, as well as complete complicated, precision sabotage. Fiendish devices require 2d4 rounds to disable. Additionally you can disable magical traps or spells that create traps; these generally have a DC of 15 + caster level. Magical traps also require 2d4 rounds to disable. All of the rules and DC modifications from the Disable Tricky and Difficult Devices ability are carried over as well.

You can perform more subtle sabotage with this ability. For example, you could cause bow strings to snap when next drawn or a wagon to explode if it drops below a certain speed.

Rank 6 Uses:Item Feedback – You can use your knowledge of magical traps and items to rig magic items to backfire when next used. This allows you to pre-determine the target of a wand, change the spell activated from a stave, or even to short out and be inoperable for 1d4 rounds as if it had been dispelled. You can specify any parameters of the spell you like, and other modifications may be made to other items if your GM allows it. The DC for this check is 15 + Caster Level of the item, and doing so requires 1d4 rounds of work. If you fail the check by 5 or more you drain 1d4 charges from the item and fail to trap it.

Once an item has been trapped it remains so until the trap is sprung. A trapped item can be disarmed like any other trap; the DC is equal to 15 + caster level.

Rank 8 Uses:Pick Arcane Locks – Nothing is more annoying than a lock you can’t pick. You have learned how to disable the binding created from an Arcane Lock and similar spells in addition to regular locks. The DC to suppress an Arcane Lock is 18 + the spell’s caster level. It takes 1d4 rounds to suppress the lock. If you succeed, the lock is suppressed for 1 minute. If you succeed by 10 or more, you can adjust the magic so the lock mistakes you for the caster for 24 hours. If you fail by 5 or more the lock seizes; you can not attempt to suppress it in this fashion again until the owner passes through it.

Hey, Look, A Trap – With a bit of work, you can make it look like an object is trapped. With 1d4 rounds worth of work, you add enough bits to fake a trap. Since the trap is intended to slow people down instead of actually harming them (which would be accomplished with an actual trap), this false trap is easy to find, requiring only a DC 10 search check to uncover. When an attempt is made to disarm it, the attempt is always successful, revealing the trap to be a fake.

Rank 10 Uses:Disable Active Spells – Spells waiting in traps are really just practice for active spells that are less forgiving. You are able to dispel magic that is active on objects or in an area, but you are unable to dispel magic that is active upon specific creatures. This would allow you to disable invisibility on an object, a wall of fire, or even an Antipathy effect (since it affects an area) but not to remove a charm monster or sleep effect (which affects specific creatures in an area at the time of casting). The DC for this check is 20 + the spell’s caster level, and the check is made after 1d4 rounds. You must be in the same square as the spell to attempt this check, likely suffering under the effects of the spell for that time.

Diplomacy

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Stealing Iaimeki's diplomacy pretty much entirely, because it works well. Added in separate modifiers for haggling that attempt to incorporate the appraise skill, but I'm concerned that it's too complicated for the relatively minor. The last ability in here, "Just this one favor" was originally intended to be a suggestion ability, but since new diplomacy is basically a suggestion ability I don't know if it's necessary.

Untrained Uses:Haggle – As Iaimeki’s Diplomacy in the Tome. You accept a -2 penalty for trying to reduce the price of an item by 10%, this penalty doubles for each additional 10% reduction you ask from the offered price. If you believe you know what the value of the item is (from an Appraise check), you take the penalty for reductions from the actual value of the item or what you believe the value of the item to be, whichever is greater.

Reach an Agreement – As Iaimeki’s Diplomacy in the Tome.

Rank 6 Uses:Let’s Not Be Hasty – Sometimes people try to stab you before you can give them a reason not to. With just a moment, you can delay a hostile creature from attacking you. As a standard action, you can make a diplomacy check opposed by 1d20 + your opponent’s level + their Chr modifier. If you succeed, you give your opponents pause and they will not attack before your next turn. If you wish to delay them after that point, you must succeed on the opposed check again on your next turn or give them some other reason not to attack. Any obvious attempt at escape as well as any obviously aggressive action by you or your allies automatically ends this effect, leaving your attackers free to do as they like.

Rank 8 uses:Seriously Likeable – A smile and kind word from you can melt even the coldest heart. With a successful diplomacy check (the same opposed check as described in Iaimeki’s work) you positively change the attitude of your target by one step. For each 5 points that you exceed their check by, you can shift their attitude one additional step. In no case can you shift a person’s attitude beyond helpful. This action requires 1 minute (10 full round actions), though it can be rushed. You can affect no more people than your ranks in diplomacy at one time.

This shift is a natural shift in attitude, and is not enforced by anything. If you mistreat or disappoint a person while their attitude has been changed, they are likely to respond more negatively than before. Even if you don’t mistreat the person, their attitude will likely revert back to its original level unless you spend time earning it.

You may not retry this check during the same encounter, but you may use it on someone multiple times over multiple meetings. It is very difficult, however, to repeat the effect and make progress with someone you have previously used this ability on. After the initial time you use this on a person, they are treated as Hostile for purposes of this check (though their actual attitude towards you may be different).

Rank 10 Uses:Voice of Serenity – Your voice can calm a berserker, reassure the fearful, or bring low a soaring spirit. Mechanically this means that you can counter rage effects, fear effects, and morale effects. You can only counter one of these at a time, but you can affect a number of people equal to your diplomacy ranks. Make a diplomacy check as a standard action, opposed by 1d20 + the effect’s save DC (in the case of spells like Fear) or the initiator’s class level + chr modifier (in the case of class abilities like Rage or Inspire Courage). If you succeed, you reduce the effects by one level or suppress half of the bonus, whichever is appropriate. If you succeed by 5 or more you suppress the ability or remove the condition for as long as you continue to use your calming voice. Any ability which is maintained by concentration or action use (such as Inspire Courage), is only suppressed while you are talking and will return as soon as you stop. Abilities that are not maintained, including abilities that once activated are duration based, are altered until the ability is used anew.

Rank 12 uses:Just This One Favor -
Like I said, not sure this is even necessary anymore...

Disguise

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The disguise skill has been progressed along its “become other” lines, and is more like a costuming skill than an acting skill at this point. In my games, the ability to play a part will be moved into bluff, separating failing at playing a role from failing to just look like something else. You’re welcome to do what makes sense in your games of course.

Special - The spells that provide a bonus on disguise checks do not provide a bonus to operating a technical disguise, nor do they provide a bonus on staying in character.

Rank 1 uses:Craft Disguise – With a bit of putty and some makeup, you can hide or alter physical features. You may disguise yourself or another person with this ability. It takes at least 1d6 minutes to craft a full disguise; particularly complicated disguises may take up to 30 minutes. Thankfully, you can prepare disguises ahead of time; applying a prepared disguise only takes 1d3 minutes. Your disguise check is made when you put the disguise on. The result, subject to modifiers in the table below, determines how good your disguise is and thus how difficult it is for others to see through it. Most people won’t look closely, but anyone who becomes suspicious of you makes a spot check. If their check exceeds your disguise check by more than 5, they realize you are disguised and will act appropriately. You can not disguise yourself as a specific person without additional training.

Assume Identity – Once you look like someone else, it’s important to remain in character. You can assume a false and made-up identity, and for the most part no one knows any better. You can not imitate a specific, real person. If you disguise yourself as a serf or farmer, no one is going to care you and you will never need to make a check unless you arouse suspicion; you may have difficulties getting into sensitive places though. If you are masquerading as a noble, military officer, cleric, or any other person whose status could be checked you need only make a check when someone demands proof of your status or seems confused by your presence. After the initial check, most challengers will be satisfied and you will likely go for days before having to make another bluff check to avoid discovery. The DC for any of these checks is the highest of your challengers’ sense motive bonuses +10, though any individual with evidence suggesting your fraud will have an increased DC to convince.

Rank 4 uses:Cunning Disguise – Putty and makeup are quite familiar to you, and you can work them into many forms. You can even use them to imitate the appearance of a specific person. The same rules for preparing, applying, and piercing a disguise apply as above.

Mimic Person – You have enough skill to mimic real people. To maintain the act, make checks as indicated in the Assume Identity ability above, unless you are spending time with someone who knows the actual person. In that case, you make opposed checks against their sense motive checks. They receive a bonus based on how well they know the person you are imitating.

Rank 8 uses:Technical Disguise – The best sahuagin disguise in the world won’t fool anyone if you can’t also breathe the water. Similarly, some disguises may require that you brave temperatures or climates you couldn’t normally survive in, be taller or smaller than normal members of your species, or even fly. As part of a disguise, you may incorporate technical elements that allow you to overcome these obstacles. Some elements, like increasing or decreasing your height by up to 50%, you can simply do as part of a regular disguise, you simply take a -1 penalty to your disguise check for each 10% beyond the first 10% you adjust your height.

Creating a more complicated technical disguise is a time consuming affair however. Colored ointments that provide acid, cold, electricity, or fire resistance of 5 are the least time intensive and may be made in batches of 5 uses with only a days worth of work. These ointments require 5 minutes to apply, in addition to the regular disguise application period, but last for 24 hours once put on. Aside from this bonus resistance, you use the regular rules to disguise yourself as another creature.

Even more complicated effects require more of a structure and must be added to a disguise. These include acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic resistance of 10, water breathing, movement forms (incl. burrowing, climbing, and swimming up to your base move and flight up to twice your base move), physical natural weapons (hands or feet only, 1 day per pair), and partially functional additional appendages (these can be directed to grasp things, but can not make attacks). Adding most of these to a disguise requires 1 day per effect, adding flight requires 1 day per maneuverability category, up to 4 days for good (perfect is not attainable). The time required to create a disguise is simply the time it would take to add the required bits. As with other disguises, another may create it for you if you wish to simply wear it later.

Whether you create the disguise or another creates it for you, some measure of skill is required to operate it; yet more skill is required to operate it without arousing suspicion. It takes 5 minutes to put on your disguise per day it took to create. When you finish putting it on, you make a disguise check to determine how difficult it will be for others to spot the disguise as per standard. You must also make a disguise check when you activate any effect of the disguise. The DC for this check is 20, plus 2 for each day that went into its construction. If you exceed the DC you don’t need to make any additional checks for that effect for an hour, though if you exceed the DC by 5 or more, you don’t need to make any additional checks for 4 hours. If you fail the check by 5 or less, the effect will operate for the next hour, after which the disguise will fail entirely and you will need to spend 1 hour repairing it. If you fail by more than 5 the disguise will fail in an hour but be unusable until that portion of the disguise is rebuilt from scratch. Technical disguises don’t hold up as well as regular disguises do to abuse. If you suffer damage equal to half your hit points while wearing a technical disguise, over the course of a week or all at once, you suffer a -5 penalty to your disguise checks to use or maintain effects. A day of repair will restore the suit to full working order, at least until it gets beaten up again.

Characters with 4 or more ranks in the devices or dungeoneering skill recognize these disguises and may operate them for up to one hour, after which they become non-functional until repaired, as if a character with the disguise skill had failed his disguise operation check upon activation by 5 or less.

Rank 12 uses:Exquisite Disguise – You could probably imitate a Cornugon if you felt like it. You add the following effects to your list of technical disguises, each of which take a day to add unless noted otherwise: acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic resistance up to 30 (1 day per resistance per 10 points), triple your size (1 day per 50% beyond your first 50% increase in size), 5’ extra reach, darkvision, functional extra appendages with natural weapons (2 days each), double your base movement speed, and additional movement forms (burrowing, climbing, and swimming up to twice your base move and flight up to four times your base move, at 2 days each per maneuverability category). Size increases, reach, and double base movement are checked once per day, all other effects are checked per standard technical disguise rules.

Escape Artist

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Untrained uses:Slip Grapple – Instead of trying to overpower a grappler, you can just try to wriggle free. You also use this skill to escape entangling effects of all kinds. The places where you can use this skill in place of a grapple check are covered in the Combat section. Spells or conditions that allow or require use of this skill will note it in their descriptions.

Rank 1 uses:Pass Tight Space – Any space that you can fit both your head and shoulders into is a space that anyone can crawl or wiggle through. You can actually move through spaces where your head fits, and your shoulders don’t. If you succeed at a DC 20 Escape Artistry check, you may move up to half of your base speed through these cramped quarters as a full round action. If you exceed the DC by 5 or more, you may move up to your base speed as a full-round action. If you exceed the DC by 10 or more you may move your base speed as a move action, but you may not charge or run through the space. Particularly long passages may require multiple checks.

Rank 4 uses:Slip Bindings – Ropes and manacles can’t keep you bound. With an Escape Artistry check and 10 full round actions you can escape manacles (DC 25), masterwork manacles (DC 30), and rope bindings (DC set by binder, see the Survival skill). If you exceed the DC by 5, you escape in half the required time. If you exceed the DC by 10 you escape in only 1 round.

Rank 8 uses:Escape Magic’s Grasp - Magic walls aren’t as perfect as they appear, if you know how to time it you can slip right through them. As a swift action, you can pass through any temporary wall generated by magic, suffering none of the effects that would normally come with passing through the wall. You take this swift action when you pass through the wall, and as such it may occur during another move action. You must succeed on an Escape Artistry check, DC 15 + Caster Level, when you reach the wall or you suffer full effects for passing through it. If the wall does not normally allow passage, you fail to cross it if you do not pass your check. You have no special ability to pass through permanent walls generated by magic.

Rank 10 uses:Pass Miniscule Opening – Some spaces, like prison bars, are designed to be open while stopping people from moving through them; they don’t stop you anymore. As a full round action, you can pass through openings up to one-quarter as thick as your body (approx 2” for most medium creatures) at a rate of 1 foot per round. You must also make a DC 30 Escape Artistry check for each round that you wish to move in such a way, failure indicates that you make no progress for the round.

Creatures larger than medium double the numbers above for each category larger they are. Creatures smaller than medium halve the numbers above for each category smaller they are.

Rank 14 uses:Slip Between Spaces - You can slip between spaces as well, ignoring the interposing obstacles. As a move action, you may make a DC 35 Escape Artistry check. If it is successful, you choose a space within your base movement rate to move to, regardless of interposing obstacles. If that space is completely filled, you are shunted to the nearest open space, suffering 1d6 damage for every 5’ that you must move to reach it. If your check fails by 5 or less, you land near your target; treat yourself as a short range grenade that missed and generate a new destination square. If you fail by more than 5 you do not move from your starting space. You must be able to move freely to use this ability, and can not use it while held, restrained, or even while attempting to pass a tight space.

Healing

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Special: The healing skill is intended to be used on creatures with a familiar anatomy. Some tasks, like binding wounds and treating poison, are fairly universal and can be applied to any living being while others, like accelerate healing, require some special knowledge to use effectively on non-humanoid creatures. If it seems unlikely that a healer would know how to work on a particular target, they suffer a -5 penalty to their check.

Untrained uses:Staunch Bleeding – Nothing is worse than watching a friend bleed to death on you. With a DC 15 healing check and a standard action you can reduce recurring hit point loss, like the 1 point/round suffered while at negative hit points or bleeding damage, by 1 point. For every 3 points you exceed the DC you reduce the bleeding damage by 1 more point. If the patient is only losing hit points because they are below 0, they stop dying and become stable. This does not otherwise eliminate the condition that caused the bleeding, and if the bands are removed before the condition expires naturally the bleeding resumes; if the condition expires upon healing

Treat Wound – Caltrops and similar spells attack your feet, and your ability to move. As a full round action, you can make a heal check to dress the injuries and remove the movement penalty. The DC for this check is 15; for each point you fail the check by you need one additional full round to bind dress the wound.

Note: this ability supersedes the text of the spells; if an orison can eliminate the penalty as a standard action, the DC really is only 15 and it really doesn’t take a minute. If you don’t like that, change the healing required to eliminate the penalty in the spells.

Rank 1 uses:Care for Patients – You know the rudiments of healing, and can provide more care than simple wound bindings. With a DC 15 healing check, you may care for up to six patients; you may care for an additional patient for every 2 points that you exceed the DC. If you do not meet the DC, you are able to care for one fewer patient for each point your roll missed the DC by. You may not care for yourself in this way, nor may you be someone else’s patient while caring for others.

While under your care, patients recover hit points and ability damage twice as quickly as normal. With a full day of rest, for example, a character would recover four hit points per character level and four points of ability damage. Additionally, you can make a healing check for each patient suffering a disease under your care; they can use your check in place of their save if it is higher. You may treat patients while travelling without penalty, though most forms of movement are active enough that you will only gain the healing benefit from the evening’s rest.

Mitigate Poison – You can help victims survive beyond the initial stab of a nasty poison. As a full round action, you can treat a poisonous wound. The next time that the victim makes a save against the effects of the poison, you also make a healing check. They may use your healing check in place of their save if it is higher. You may mitigate your own poisoned wounds as well, allowing you both a healing check and a saving throw at next check, but it requires two-full round actions.

Rank 4 uses:Triage Assessment – It’s useful to know who you can save with your healing knowledge, and who you’d be wasting your time on. As a move action, you can make a healing check to determine someone’s condition. The DC for this check is 15, meeting that DC will let you know whether your target is below one-quarter of their maximum hit points, if they are dying you learn their exact negative hp amount, as well as whether or not they are suffering from any bleeding effects, diseases, or poisons. Diseases and poisons in their incubation periods are not detected with this ability. For every 2 points you exceed the DC by you can also learn one of the following things: the lowest unknown DC of a disease they are suffering from (in the event of a tie determine randomly), the effect of a failed save against a disease of known DC, the lowest unknown DC of a poison they are suffering from, the time remaining until next poison save, the effect of a failed save against a poison of known DC, or the duration of a bleeding effect.

Rank 6 uses:Immediate Healing – You can work wonders with bandages, leaches, and almost no time. As a full round action you can attempt to heal someone of damage. If you succeed on a healing check, DC 15 + their level or your level (whichever is less), you heal one-fourth of their maximum hit points worth of damage or one-fourth of your maximum hit points worth of damage (whichever is less). If you fail by 5 or less, you heal one-eighth of their maximum hit points. If you fail by more than 5 you deal your level worth of subdual damage to your patient. Though you’ve got talent, there is a limit to what you can accomplish with a patient without actual time and rest. Each additional check on a patient again before they have taken a full night’s rest suffers a cumulative -10 penalty.

Rank 8 uses:Detailed Assessment – You can spend a bit of time with people, and learns thing about them they didn’t know about themselves. After you have performed a Triage Assessment on someone, you can spend 1 more minute with them and make a DC 20 heal check. On a success you learn if there are any poisons or diseases in their incubation period, and the identity and DC of whichever has the lowest DC. For every 2 points you exceed the check by you also learn the identity and DC of another disease or poison, in order of ascending DC.

Rank 10 uses:Accelerate Healing – You’re either a fantastic doctor, or patients just can’t wait to be free of you. Patients under your care, as the above ability, heal twice the standard amount after a night of rest. Patients who take a full day of bed rest under your care heal three times the base amounts. If any patient is suffering from a disease, you can make two healing checks when they make a save; the patient uses the best roll from among them.

Rank 12 uses:Recover Limbs – You can keep pieces of people going long enough to put them back on. If someone loses a finger or a foot or an arm or whatever, you can keep it intact and viable. You make this healing check when you attempt to reattach the limb, and each attempt requires 15 minutes. The DC for this check is 20, +1 for every 2 minutes before the limb was picked up by someone with 10 or more ranks in healing and +1 for every 15 minutes it’s been detached from the owner. You suffer a -10 penalty to this check for every previous immediate healing attempt since the owner’s last full night’s rest. You may also rush the attempt, so that it only takes 5 minutes, but you suffer a -10 penalty to the check. If you succeed on this check, you reattach the limb properly and the owner is treated as if they had benefited from an immediate healing. If you succeed by more than 5 the owner either benefits from an immediate healing on top of the reattachment or you can attach a second severed body part with a DC less than or equal to the one you succeeded at. If you fail the check by 5 or less you do not reattach the part, but you may try again without penalty beyond the additional detached time. If you fail by more than 5 you ruin the piece and can not attempt to reattach it again.

Intimidation:

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Untrained uses:Intimidate [Fear] – With threats, veiled or overt, you can change another’s behavior. If you have at least one minute to interact with someone, you may make an intimidation check. This check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wis bonus [if any] + target’s relevant descriptor modifiers). If you beat your target’s check result, you may treat the target as friendly, but only for the purpose of actions taken while it remains intimidated. The target retains its normal attitude, but will chat, advise, offer limited help, or advocate on your behalf while intimidated. This effect lasts as long as the target remains in your presence, and for 1d6×10 minutes afterward. After this time, the target’s default attitude toward you shifts to unfriendly (or hostile if they were unfriendly to you at first).

If you fail the check by 5 or more, the target is not scared of you in the least. Rather than accede to your wishes, the target openly mocks you, provides you with incorrect or useless information, or otherwise frustrates your efforts.

Rank 1 Uses:Shake Resolve [Fear] – With threats, gestures, and posture you can make even the bravest foe cower. As a standard action, you may attempt to make one enemy that you threaten fearful of your combat prowess. You make an Intimidation check opposed by a modified level check (as above). If you succeed, the foe is shaken for 1 round, plus 1 additional round per 2 points that your check exceeded theirs. You may subtract 5 from your result to frighten them instead or 10 from your result to panic them; if you do so the duration of their fright is determined from your new, lower result.

Rank 4 uses:Redirect Fear - Intimidation is a skill all about making people afraid of you, and sometimes it’s even useful for your own party to fear you. Maybe you threaten them, maybe you just glare, the simple fact is that you can shake your friends free of fear effects. To shock someone free of their fear, you make an intimidation check as a standard action. If you are attempting to break a fear effect from a failed save, your skill DC is equal to the save DC +5, +1 for each person beyond the first that you are attempting to assist. To free four or your friends from a Fear spell, for instance, you would need to exceed the save DC by 8 (5 plus 1 for each person beyond the first). If you are attempting to break the effects of Shake Resolve, an Intimidation ability, you need to match or exceed 10+the bluff modifier of the person who cause the effect.

Rank 8 Uses:New Orders [Mind-Affecting] – You’ve learned which tones of voice work best to get people to obey you without though. As a standard action, you can make an Intimidation check against your target’s modified level check (as above). You take a penalty to your check based on their attitude (see Diplomacy). If you succeed, they follow one brief (10 words or less) instruction to the best of their ability. They will perform the action for a maximum of 5 rounds, plus 1 round per 2 points that you exceeded their check. After you leave, however, they are allowed a Will save each round (DC = 10 + your Intimidation bonus) to end the effect immediately.

Most targets of this ability have their attitude towards you negatively shifted by the experience, so it is difficult to catch them with it more than once.

Jump

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Portions of this have been taken, with permission, from IGTN's redone jump. The improved jump DCs aren't a particularly obnoxious bit of math, but it's probably worth doing a DC table for the less math inclined.

General notes:
Many jump abilities mention a running start. A running start is a movement of 20’ immediately before making the jump check. This movement must be in the same direction as the jump. If you have an ability that allows you to make a turn while taking a run or charge action, only the last 5 feet must be in the same direction as the jump.

Untrained uses:High Jump – When the wall is more of a razor fence, climbing isn’t as convenient as simply jumping over it. Likewise, you may not have time to climb up to the balcony before the demon hordes overwhelm you. A high jump is a vertical leap made to reach a ledge high above or to grasp something overhead, and is useful in situations like these. The DC to reach a particular height is the height (in feet) multiplied by 4. Creatures also have vertical reach that allows them to grasp significantly higher than their jump check. This reach is shown on the table below. Creatures that are longer than they are tall, like panthers and most quadrupeds, should be treated as one category smaller. As an example, let’s say a medium creature wanted to reach a ledge that was 12 feet up. They would only need a DC 16 jump check to clear 4 feet, the remaining 8 feet they gain with their vertical reach.

If you do not have a running start before you make a high jump you take a -8 penalty to your check. If your base speed is faster than 30 feet, you gain a 1 foot bonus to your result for every 10 feet faster than 30 feet. If your base speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -1 foot penalty to your result for every 5 feet slower than 30 feet.

A high jump check is made as part of a movement or run action. While in the air you travel a horizontal distance equal to half your high jump distance, along the same direction as your running start. You can halve this horizontal distance by accepting a -2 penalty, or eliminate it by accepting a -4 penalty to your jump check. If this horizontal movement would cause you to exceed your movement for the action, you must use another move action or land prone. If you do use an additional move action, you lose the excess jump distance from it but are free to continue your move action after you land. If you did not have a running start, a high jump check is a move action on its own but you do not travel horizontally at all and you always land on your feet.

You may make multiple high jumps as part of a move or run action, so long as the total horizontal distance you move does not exceed your maximum in the round. After the first high jump, each subsequent high jump requires only 5 feet of land movement to count as having a running start. This holds true over multiple rounds as well, so long as you don’t take any action aside from moving or jumping.

Hop Up – Hopping up onto a counter or table is a special case of the high jump, and is often used in bar fights to get up on tables for a quick height advantage. The DC to hop up onto any object between knee and waist high is 10. Like the high jump, this vertical movement is free, but you do still have to have the movement to step onto the surface. This special hop does not require a running start, and does not benefit from one.

Long Jump – Pits and moats are meant to be overcome as well, and if you can jump them it’s easy to ignore them and more on. A long jump is a horizontal jump useful for bypassing these sorts of hazards. The DC to clear a particular distance is equal to the distance in feet. If you exceed the DC by 5 or more you land standing on the other side, otherwise you land prone and must spend a move action to stand up. If you fail your check by 5 or less, you can make a DC 15 reflex save to grab the ledge. See the Pull Up athletics ability for information on getting up from there.

If you do not have a running start before you make a long jump you take a -8 penalty to your check. If your base speed is faster than 30 feet, you gain a 1 square (5 foot) bonus to your result for every 10 feet faster than 30 feet. If your base speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -1 square penalty to your result for every 10 feet slower than 30 feet.

A long jump may be part of a move action, or it may be a move action on its own. If your long jump distance is greater than your regular base move, it uses a move action on its own. You may split a separate move action in the round, allowing you to move both before and after your jump. If your long jump distance is less than your base move, the long jump is included in your move action and counts as normal movement. After you land a long jump, you may make additional long jumps as if you had a running start without making additional land movement. This holds true over multiple rounds as well, so long as you don’t take any action aside from moving or jumping. You may only make one jump per round that exceeds your base move.

At the midpoint of the jump, you attain a vertical height equal to one-quarter of the horizontal distance. You may reduce this height to one-eighth of the horizontal distance by taking a -4 penalty, or eliminate the horizontal distance entirely by accepting a -8 penalty to your jump check.

Rank 1 uses:Landing – As long as your long jump check meets or exceeds the DC needed for your jump, you land on your feet. You must still have movement left over to land on your feet after a high jump.

Rank 6 uses:Champion High Jumper – The DC for a high jump is reduced to twice the height (in feet) that you wish to clear. This effectively doubles your high jump range.

Rank 8 uses:Atlas Long Jump – The DC for your long jumps is no longer equal to the distance your wish to clear. Determine the DC with the following table:

Rank 10 uses:Atlas High Jump – The DC for your high jumps is no longer equal to twice the height. Instead, Double the height, and determine the DC as if it were a long jump with the table above.

Rank 12 uses:Leap of the Winds – There is no limit to the number of Jumps you can make in a round that exceed your base move, though each jump still uses an individual move action. Any round in which you make more than one jump in this fashion you are considered to be running. You may also long jump without first determining the target distance; you simply cross whatever distance your check result indicates.

Rank 14 uses:Leap of the Heavens – The DC for your high jumps is now equal to the DC for your long jumps. Additionally, you may also make high jumps without first determining the target height; you simply reach whatever height your check result indicates.

Legerdemain

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The early abilities are stolen from Iaimeki, and play into later things quite nicely.

Rank 1 uses:Conceal Object - You can hide on object at least two size categories smaller than yourself on your person. Anyone attempting to find the hidden object rolls a Perception check against your Legerdemain check. Daggers and similar weapons designed to be hidden give you a +2 bonus on the check, items three or more size categories smaller than you give you a +4 bonus, and wearing heavy or baggy clothing gives you a +2 bonus in any event. If you are being frisked, your opponent gains a +4 bonus to their check.

With a DC 20 Legerdemain check, you can draw a hidden weapon as if it was openly displayed; the exact action depends on your base attack bonus.

Palm Object - With a DC 10 Legerdemain check, you can palm an object at least two size categories smaller than yourself that you have in your possession: for instance, make a coin ‘disappear’ or poisoning a drink. If someone observes you while you do this, they may make a Perception check to notice you doing it, but this doesn’t prevent you from performing the action.

Steal Object - If you want to take something from another creature without their noticing it, you have to combine a Legerdemain check with a disarm attempt (most targets will be flatfooted against this attempt). Whether you are actually grabbing an object, slitting a coin purse and catching falling coin, or reaching into a sack to remove an item you make a disarm check. If your disarm check is successful you have taken the item from them, if it is unsuccessful you did not. After the attempt you make a Legerdemain check opposed by their Perception check to see if they notice your attempted removal of the item. You gain a +4 bonus to this roll if you failed to take the item.

You can only take an item that’s two or small size categories smaller than you, and generally only an item that they aren’t paying active attention to (i.e., not a wielded weapon or something similar).

Rank 4 uses:Plant Evidence – Instead of taking something from another person, you can place something on them instead. You follow the same procedure as if you were stealing from them to avoid detection.

Rank 6 uses:Ventriloquism – You can throw your voice so that it appears to come from some person or object other than you. You must succeed on a Legerdemain check to use this ability, the DC is equal to 10 + the distance from you to the object you wish your voice to come from. If you remain stationary, each check is good for 10 minutes. If you move, you must make a new check each round with the DC to a new object. Your voice can not come out of thin air with this ability; you must pick an object to act as the new source.

Rank 8 uses:My Disappearing Pig Trick – You can make objects of your size category or smaller ‘vanish’, when really you’re just distracting someone while you move the object under or behind nearby cover. As with the Palm Object ability above, you make a Legerdemain check opposed by your observers’ Perception checks. If you are moving the object to cover greater than 5 feet away, you suffer a -2 cumulative penalty for each additional foot. Failure of this check does not negate your moving the object to cover, but it does indicate that someone saw it.

If you don’t have a sheet, cloak, or some other way to keep observers from seeing the object you suffer a -10 penalty to your Legerdemain check. You must be able to move the object with your strength, though you may simply provide the distraction for people or objects that can move on their own.

Rank 10 uses:Almost Nothing I Can’t Steal - With a -10 cumulative penalty for each size category larger than listed above, you can handle objects of larger size than normally allowed for the Conceal, Palm, and Steal Object and Plant Evidence abilities of Legerdemain. This penalty only applies to your Legerdemain check to avoid detection, and does not affect your check to take the item.

You may also take an object that is being paid attention to if you accept a -20 penalty to your Legerdemain check. As above, failing the opposed check does not prevent the action, so you can still swipe whatever you want, but failing does indicate that they saw you do it. Some attended objects, like shirts or pants, are still beyond your ability.

Perception

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Untrained uses:Listen – You have ears, or some other auditory sense organs, and they let you hear stuff. The DC to hear something is dependant on the sound itself and local conditions. Sample DCs are listed below, as are the conditions that provide a penalty to your check. You are assumed to be always at least passively listening with them, and as such you are always taking 0 on your checks, at no action cost, forever. You can listen actively as a move action, and you can add a check with another sense to this action at no additional cost, but both senses use the same check result. This portion of the skill often opposes the stealth skill, and is also used to oppose audio disguises if you suspect an individual isn’t who they sound like.

If you succeed on the check, you hear the sound clearly. If you fail a listen check by 5 or less you still heard something, you just don’t know what it is and may need to try again the following round. If you fail by more than 5 you don’t notice the sound at all.

Spot You have eyes, or some other visual sense organ, and they let you see stuff. The DC to see something is dependant on the object itself and local conditions. Sample DCs are listed below, as are the conditions that provide a penalty to your check. You are assumed to be always at least passively looking with them, and as such you are always taking 0 on your checks, at no action cost, forever. You can look actively as a move action, and you can add a check with another sense to this action at no additional cost, but both senses use the same check result. This portion of the skill often opposes the stealth skill, and is also used to oppose visual disguises if you suspect an individual isn’t who they appear to be.

If you succeed on the check, you see the object or commotion clearly. If you fail a spot check by 5 or less you still saw something, you just don’t know what it is and may need to try again the following round. If you fail by more than 5 you don’t notice it at all.

Taste, Touch, & Smell – The other senses are included in this skill as well, and function as the above skills. It’s unlikely that you’d ever need to roll against them, but if you do here they are. Possible uses could be tasting food borne poison, feeling a small drop of blood land on your arm, or smelling the faint odor of a gas before its effects take hold. [Add sample DCs and modifiers to table].

Rank 8 uses:See the Invisible, Hear the Silenced – By focusing on one of your senses, you can pierce some portions of illusions. You can pierce illusions one sense at a time: sight, smell, taste, touch, or audio. As a move action, you can focus on one sense and pierce an illusion affecting that sense. The DC for this check is 15 + caster level; if successful you pierce all applications of the illusion arising from the same casting. Since you can only pierce illusions for a particular sense at a time, it can take a long time to break down multi sense illusions and this is mostly useful for piercing single sense illusions, like invisibility or silence. Against anything affecting more senses, a save is a better option. Unlike other perception abilities, you are not considered to be taking 0 on this ability all the time.

Rank 14 uses:Sight Beyond Sight – Perception is strong with you, so strong that you can pierce illusions affecting all of your senses at once. You can make a perception check, at any time, in place of a save to pierce an illusion, even an illusion that wouldn’t normally allow a save. The DC for this check is 15 + caster level. As you are assumed to be always taking 0 with this ability, as with all perception abilities, it is likely that you will just see right though the illusions of less trained casters.

Search

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This skill is pretty boring, but also slightly problematic without trapfinding; it's about the only thing that makes the search skill worth a damn. So I'm stealing that class ability and putting it into search by default, and redefining trapfinding down at the bottom.

Untrained Uses:Examine Area – People hide secret doors and traps all over the place, and if you want to use or avoid them you have to be able to find them first. It’s the same thing with foot prints and other clues, you have to be able to find them before they can help you.
The DC to find a secret door or trap is determined by their construction. With this level of training, you can not find anything with a DC higher than 20.

Rank 4 Uses:Search – You have picked up a fair bit of the tricks that people use to conceal things. When examining an area, you are not limited to the common, trite tricks used to hide triggers or caches and may discover hidden things with a DC above 20 when you search.

Trapfinding: Characters with this ability may, as a full round action, move their base speed and also search for traps in each square immediately before they step into it. They may take 12 on these search checks if they like.

Sense Motive

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Rank 1 uses:Assess Statement – You have a brain, or some other data processing organ, and you can use it to evaluate the things people tell you. When you believe someone is lying to you, you can make a sense motive check as a move action. If they are lying and you exceed their Bluff check, you recognize that they are lying. You must decide to make the check yourself, and do not automatically get a check against every lie that is told to you. Note that you are always assumed to be taking 0 on this skill and you may just notice a particularly poorly told lie without any effort.

Rank 4 uses:Assess Situation – You sometimes know something is wrong before things fall apart. You can use your data processing organ to analyze people and situations you find yourself in. With a sense motive check, DC 20 + CR or EL depending on circumstances, you can determine if a person or situation generally ‘feels wrong’. You don’t gain any other information aside from this sense of foreboding; you simply believe that something is out of place or not what it seems. This could mean that the person acting like your friend really isn’t, that your escort is unknowingly taking you into a trap, or that continuing on your course of action will not work out as you intend. It is a full round action to gain a hunch in this fashion.

Detect Influence – You can tell when people are acting under another’s influence. You can detect most active charm or compulsion effects with a DC 20 + caster level sense motive check. The DC is only 15 + caster level for domination effects. You gain a bonus to this check based on how well you know the person you are interacting with (as disguise penetration bonuses). You must spend one full minute interacting with the person before you can make this check.

Rank 6 uses:What’s Your Motivation – People are pretty poor at disguising their motivations if you know what you’re looking for. If you interact with someone for at least one minute, you can make a perception check to determine their alignment. The DC for this check is 25, 20 for a creature with a strong aura, or 15 for a creature with an overwhelming aura. A successful check provides you both alignment descriptors and knowledge of its strength.

Rank 10 uses:Almost See the Wheels Turning – Detect thoughts in some fashion…

Survival

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Untrained usesBind Adversary – The ability to tie knots is extremely helpful when attempting to survive outside the bounds of civilization. You can apply that knowledge to binding adversaries. It takes one minute (10 full round actions) to bind someone. There is no check involved in binding someone; your ranks are only used to determine the DC of the escape artistry check to escape your bindings.
Live Off the Land – When you’re between towns and have lost all of your food to bandits, you have to find more if you want to eat. You must decide to live off the land before you make this check, because it has significant impact on your daily travel distance. With a DC 15 survival check you can move up to your normal overland speed while also finding sufficient food and water for yourself. For each 4 points that you exceed this check you can feed one additional person. If you fail this check or don’t feed enough people, you can slow down in an attempt to search more thoroughly. With a DC 10 survival check you can move up to half your normal overland speed while also finding sufficient food and water for yourself, and another person for each 2 points that you exceed this check. If you fail that check or still don’t feed enough people, you can slow down even more and look even harder for food and water. With a DC 5 survival check you can move up to one quarter your normal overland speed while also finding sufficient food and water for yourself, plus one additional person per point you exceed the DC by. If you fail that check, you move at quarter speed for the day and go hungry if you lack other supplies, but you only go thirsty if you’re in a water scarce environment like a desert.

Rank 1 uses:Rope Tricks – You can use a rope. It’s really not impressive, but it is often very useful. With a DC 10 check you can tie a firm knot. With a DC 15 check you can tie a special knot, like a slip knot. With a DC 20 check you can tie a firm knot that unties itself when you, or someone else who makes a check higher than yours, pulls on it. You can tie a rope around yourself or someone else with one hand with only a DC 15 check.

You’re also proficient with grappling hooks and making them stay up on roof ledges or rock outcroppings. The DC for this check is 10 +2 for every 10 feet of distance. When you make this check you commit yourself to climbing the rope. If you succeed on the check, the hook is properly secured and will hold while you and anyone else (up to the weight limit of the rope or hook) follow. If you fail the check by 5 or less you must try again, for the hook slipped when you first began to climb. If you fail by more than 5 the rope only holds for 1d4 rounds of weight bearing, and those rounds are assumed to have passed. If everyone climbed during the period that it was stable then nothing bad happens, but if anyone would still be on it during the round when it fails they fall and take damage as appropriate.

Survive Wilds – It’s a big world out there, and lots of it will kill you if you don’t know what you’re doing. You can guide yourself through that big world with landmarks and generally avoid getting lost with a DC 15 check; trackless or guideless terrain, limited visibility, or magical influences may increase this DC significantly. Each successful check keeps you from getting lost for one hour of travel at walking speed. If you succeed by more than 5 you are safe from becoming lost for four hours of travel at walking speed. If you fail the check by 5 or less you temporarily lose your way and lose half an hour regaining your bearings, after which you can proceed for an hour without further checks. If you fail by more than 5 you are utterly lost and unable to make any further checks until you determine where you are or reach a known location. Further travel is done by guess work.

You can also avoid quicksand, unstable rocks, suddenly deep bogs, and any other natural hazard with a DC 15 check. You can avoid magical hazards like lightning sand or even plant creatures; the DC for these objects is 15 + CR. If you are moving at a walking speed or below you are assumed to be taking 10 on this ability and will likely just avoid most natural things. You must be able to see a creature or hazard to avoid it in this way, so you may fail to avoid creatures that are well camouflaged. You lose this ability if you move faster than a walk, and have to stop or slow down for a full round before you can check terrain for hazards again.

Track Game – You know how to spot the signs that an animal has passed by. Conveniently enough, people and monsters leave lots of the same signs. You can follow any trail with a DC of 15 or less. Following any trail more complicated requires the Tracking special ability or the Track feat.

Weatherman – You know what that soreness in your bones means. With a successful DC 15 check, you can predict the weather of the coming day. If you succeed by 5 or more, you can also predict the weather for the following day. If you fail by 5 or less you can predict the weather for the next 6 hours. If you fail by more than 5, you’re only guessing about the weather at any point in the future, including a minute from when you make the check. Doesn’t mean you’re going to be wrong though.

Rank 4 uses:Hunter’s Traps – You can trap creatures, for eating or whatever. With some work you can make a snare trap, a pit trap, an enclosure trap, or some other hunting trap that fits the environment. In a standard sized environment, you can spend an hour to make a trap for a medium creature. Smaller traps take half as long for each size category below, and larger traps take twice as long for each category above medium. A medium trap fills a 5’ x 5’ square, and is deep enough to hold a creature of that size. If you are in a different sized environment, use that size as the hour long base and adjust all times to create the trap from that size instead. After you finish making the trap, make a survival check. The result of your check is how long the trap will last, in days; the trap is useless and must be remade if not triggered in that period. Note that some extreme weather conditions can trigger a trap, like a strong storm, reducing that duration significantly.

The created trap has a search DC of 15 plus your ranks in survival. If the trap would allow a save, it has a DC of 10 + half your ranks in survival. If the trap would make an attack roll against a target, it uses your ranks in survival as the attack bonus.

Rough It – You’re well suited to surviving outside the bounds of civilization. You can make temporary shelters to protect yourself and others from ambient conditions, as well as clothes to protect yourself on the move. Shelters are easy to make, requiring only time and natural resources. With 20 minutes of work, you can make a shelter that will protect one medium sized person or object from local conditions, and you can add additional medium creatures to the same shelter by spending an additional ten minutes per. Creatures larger than medium require twice as long as the next size down, and smaller creatures require half as much time as the next size up. The initial time spent building the shelter is determined by the largest creature it will protect. Note that this time requirement is relative and assumes a normal sized environment; if an environment is sized properly for a huge creature then it takes them 20 minutes to create a shelter instead of 80, and a medium creature can make a shelter for themselves in just 5 minutes. You can also cut this time in half if you possess enough canvas to cover the combat spacing of everyone housed in the shelter.

While you are setting up shelter, neither you nor anyone else is protected from the environment by it and you suffer all effects normally. After you’ve spent the time required to set it up, you make a survival check to determine its integrity. If you succeed on a DC 20 check, modified by the extremes of the conditions, your structure is secure for 24 hours. During that time you suffer ¼ penalties, take ¼ damage, and make saves ¼ as often against conditions outside your shelter. You also gain a +3 bonus against any saves you have to make due to the environment. If you exceed the DC by more than 5 you are immune to conditions in the outside environment, suffering no damage or penalties and making no saves, and your structure lasts for 48 hours. If you fail the check by 5 or less, your structure only provides half protection from conditions and only lasts for 6 hours. If you fail by more than 5 your shelter provides no benefit whatsoever and must be rebuilt. When a structure reaches its time limit, it drops to the next level of protection. A perfect structure drops to a one-quarter structure after 48 hours, which drops to a one-half structure after 24 hours, which falls apart after 6 hours. To maintain a structure beyond its normal time limit, you must put in one-quarter the original setup time and make a new check when the structure reaches its current limit. You take the better of your check or the standard structure decline results.

Skin It – You’re not bad at setting up a camp, but you can also make portable protection from conditions using the local flora and fauna. It takes twice as many creatures of the same size to protect a person or object; the creatures are skinned or pulled for this process and so consumed in it. Once you have suitable materials, it only takes one hour to turn them into protective clothing. The DC for this set is 20, and you make one check per suit. If you succeed, you gain one-quarter protection from the environment while you wear the gear. If you succeed by more than 5 you gain complete protection from the local environment while you wear the gear. If you fail by 5 or less you only gain one-half protection with the gear. If you fail by more than 5 you ruin the materials and gain no protection from them at all.

The gear produced with this ability degrades so slowly as to not bother tracking, and most is replaced with better quality coverings long before it would expire. The gear produced is functionally another set of clothes, and carries a -3 armor check penalty. The gear is also only useful in the conditions it was made to protect against, in others it is useless or even dangerous to your health such as wearing thick arctic furs in the desert. This gear also provides no bonuses against any attack or energy types, it only provides protection against ambient conditions.

Rank 6 uses:True North – You have a compass installed in your head. You always know where true north lies.

Rank 8 uses:Mask Passing – You can mask the passing of an entire group of people, even if they continue moving at full speed. Generally you need to spend at least 5 minutes hiding a trail to provide a sufficient break to slow down a pursuer. After that time, you make a check to determine your results against a DC of 10 + 2 per person you are masking, including yourself. If you succeed on the check you increase the DC to track you by 5, if you succeed on the check by more than 5 you increase the DC to track you by 10. If you fail by 5 or less you do not change the DC to track you or your party. Any of those three cases prompt a new tracking check when the tracker runs across your trail masking however, and that alone may buy you some time. Failing the check by more than 5 fails to even interrupt your tracker’s stride, there is no effect on the DC to track you and the tracker does not need to make a new check when they cross your masking.

Rank 12 uses: Planar Adaption – You can survive anywhere. You can use your Rough It and Skin It abilities to assist your survival on other planes. The mechanism of these checks remains the same, but the DC may increase drastically. For conditions similar to those on the prime there is no DC change, but a continuous acid fog or airless environment may increase the DC by 5-15 points.

Rank 14 uses:The Long Road Home – You have fixed the compass of the multiverse firmly in your mind. With one minute to concentrate and scan the horizon, and a DC 30 check, you can determine direction and distance to any location in the prime material plane you have ever visited before. If you have only ever teleported to and from the location, the DC is 35 instead.

If you ever leave the prime material plane, you can determine the direction and distance to the nearest portal back to your world. You need 5 minutes of concentration and a DC 35 check to learn this information; activating the portal is another matter entirely and you learn no information about the portal aside from its general location. Note that this may not be the shortest route back to your home, as a trip through several planes might be the shorter route but would not be provided by this skill.[spoiler]

Stealth[spoiler]Special: Absolute size bonuses need to die in a fire. Giants are not at a hiding disadvantage against other giants and in giant sized surroundings. Gnomes are not at a hiding advantage in their own communities. These two things only happen because we have absolute stealth penalties for size and no cancelling adjustments for spotters of varying size. Since absolute spot bonuses are retarded, absolute stealth bonuses are as well. Relative bonuses and penalties for being bigger or smaller than your surroundings are fine however, and size bonuses need to be converted to these contextual things.

Untrained uses:Clandestine Surveillance – You can hide behind a curtain, a well, or a hill and people on the other side of it can’t see you; they may not be able to hear or smell or otherwise sense you either. This isn’t a skill or ability; it’s just what happens when something sits between people. While that’s useful, sometimes you need to expose yourself and break cover to check out the people on the other side, that’s where a stealth check would be useful. Remaining hidden while observing is a free action, made in conjunction with any perception check that requires you to expose yourself. For purposes of this check, you are treated as being only as big as your exposed parts, and gain a substantial bonus on this check as indicated on the table below. Watchers must exceed your stealth check with their own perception check to notice you and locate your hiding place.

Avoid Notice – Anyone can keep their head down and their hood up when they have to. If someone is searching a crowd for you, or you are being generally observed but haven’t been specifically picked out, you may make a stealth check to continue to avoid notice. You may also use this ability to sneak up behind someone; if you reach them before they notice you they are flatfooted against your attack. This check is made as part of a move action and only one check is made per round, even if you hustle or run. Your check result may not exceed 20 with this level of skill. Your check result sets the base DC for a searcher’s perception check to notice you, and you must make a new check each round that you attempt to avoid notice. Because of that, it is advised that you limit yourself to short bursts of stealth (to sneak up behind or past someone), or to situations where you could take 10 and reasonably succeed; the more you roll the more likely you are to roll badly. As long as anyone searching the area does not meet or exceed the total DC to notice you, largely influenced by your stealth check, they do not notice you.

If you are noticed, it is much easier for the spotter to find you in the future; spotters gain a bonus if they know what they’re looking for. They can also tell their friends or point, granting them similar bonuses to noticing you. Worse, you can’t avoid their notice with a check anymore. You must escape or confuse their ability to detect you before you can make any additional stealth checks to avoid notice from any person who has noticed you. Some ways to accomplish this are running around a corner and hiding in a box while they don’t see you, disappearing into a crowd, gaining full concealment or full cover, or using the Combat Distraction ability of bluff to make them look away just long enough for a quick getaway. This doesn’t mean they don’t know where you’ve gone, just that you get to start making checks again for them to miss you when they come looking. If they see you disappear around a corner and then can’t find you, it would be perfectly legitimate for them to fireball the alley to try and bring you out of hiding.

You take a penalty to this check if you draw attention to yourself. The most common ways to draw attention to yourself are moving quickly or becoming involved in a fight or commotion; these modifiers are included in the table below. Note that you suffer no penalty if you are travelling with a group of fast moving people, as not moving as quickly would stand out more in those cases. Other ways of drawing attention to yourself may include being painted the wrong color during a festival or being three feet taller than the rest of the people in the area. These less common ways of drawing attention to yourself may carry a penalty of up to -10 on your roll, and you don’t have the skill to determine the penalty before you have taken the action.

Rank 4 uses:Avoid Detection – As avoid notice above, except that there is no limit to your check result. You are also trained enough to know how large a penalty to your stealth check you would take from uncommon attention drawing conditions, like those described above, and can plan your route and actions better as a result. Mechanically, this mean that you can ask the DM ahead of time what the numeric result of doing something would be if it isn’t listed in the book, and they have to tell you.

Rank 6 uses:Team Player – Sometimes you have to bring the team with you into the shadows, and they may not have any idea what they’re doing. If you accept a -6 penalty to your stealth check, you may apply the result of your check to every member of your group within 30’ for the purposes of avoiding detection.

Alternately, your group can each make individual checks to avoid notice or detection, as appropriate for each character, and you may then reduce the result of your check to boost the checks of others. For every 1 point that you reduce your check by, you may increase the check of an ally by 2. You may not increase an ally’s check above your own reduced check with this ability, though you may increase their results above 20 if they would be limited from lack of training.

Rank 10 uses:Foil Senses – When you hide, you can even mask your echo and vibrations. You can mask yourself from the blindsight, blindsense, and tremorsense special abilities. As part of your move action for the round, make a stealth check with standard movement penalties. The DC for this check is 15 + CR of the creature or 15 + the creature’s ranks in perception, whichever is higher. The effects of your success depend on what type of special location senses the creature has.

If you succeed on the check against a creature with blindsight, they are unable to locate you clearly. You are treated as if you had full concealment against it and the creature is flatfooted against your attacks. If you succeed on the check by more than 5, they are unable to locate the specific square you are in though they know your location to within 5 ft. and they are treated as blind against you. If you succeed on the check by more than 10 the creature is unaware of your presence entirely.

If you succeed on the check against a creature with blindsense, they are unable to locate the specific square you are in though they know your location to within 5 ft. and they are treated as blind against you. If you succeed on the check by more than 10 the creature is unaware of your presence entirely.

If you succeed on the check against a creature with tremorsense, they are unable to sense you with this ability as long as you move one half of your base speed or less in the round and take no other actions. If you succeed on the check by more than 5 you can move up to your full base speed or take any other single standard action without the creature noticing your presence or location. If you exceed the check by 10 or more you can take a standard and a move action without the creature becoming aware of you.

Rank 12 uses:Hide In Plain Sight – People have a really hard time keeping an eye on you, even when they know you’re there. You can attempt a stealth check after someone has spotted you without first breaking line of sight or otherwise losing your pursuer, or while you are under any other sort of direct observation. You gain no special benefit to your roll, and may have a hard time pulling it off as your pursuer still gains a benefit from knowing what to look for.

Use Magic Device

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I've pulled the scroll deciphering ability and put it into Decipher Script. Feel free to move it back it you want it all under one roof of course.

Special: Normally this check is made as part of the activation action, but items that provide a continuous bonus do not have an activation action. You must expend an immediate action to activate and benefit from a continuous item, you make the check at the same time as you spend the action. If you succeed it will function until the beginning of you next turn; if you exceed the DC by 5 or more it will function for 1 minute without additional attention.

Rank 1 Uses:Forced Alignment – Your understanding of the forces of belief and faith allows you to force magic items to respond to you when they otherwise wouldn’t. If an item requires its user to have a specific alignment besides yours, you may activate the item anyway, the DC for this check equals the item’s caster level +10. A successful check allows the item to function normally for 1 round, during which time you can use charges or receive its benefits as appropriate.

Recognize Ancestry – Your understanding of the world and its ways allows you to will magic items to respond to you when they otherwise wouldn’t. If an item requires its user to be a member of a race besides yours, you may activate the item anyway, the DC for this check equals the item’s caster level +10. A successful check allows the item to function normally for 1 round, during which time you can use charges or receive its benefits as appropriate.

The Finishing Stroke – Your ability to analyze magical scripts also lets you guess at the missing stroke or word that will release their stored power. You may attempt to activate any scroll or other spell completion item that you have previously deciphered. You must have a minimum score of 10 + spell level in the relevant ability to use a scroll or similar item. If you have less than this you must fake it with another ability or you suffer a cumulative -2 penalty to your roll for each point you are short. The DC for this check is equal to 15 + the caster level of the spell stored in the object. If you fail by less than 5 the item is activated, but you suffer a 20% chance of a mishap for each point you failed the check by (see scroll mishaps in the DMG).

There’s a Trick to It - Magic items can be coaxed to work for people they weren’t intended for, if you know how to ask them. If a magic item requires a certain class feature to operate, you can fake the ability and use the item. You can also fake a class spell list for spell trigger items like wands. The DC for this check is 15 + class level required to use the ability. You can not use this ability to acquire a class feature that can only be gained by a character of higher level than yourself. It can not give you an effective class level, effective caster level, or similar ability of a character higher level than your own.

Rank 4 Uses:Activate Blindly – You know enough random bits about magic to activate magic items, even when you have no idea what they do or how they work. As a standard action (or longer if it takes more time to activate the item) and a DC 12+CL check you can trigger any item in your possession. If you fail by 5 or more the item loses 1d4 charges but generates no other effects. If you have previously activated the item before, you gain a +3 bonus to this check.

Once it has been activated, you have a 50% chance of controlling it, plus 5% for each point that you exceeded the check by. You are allowed to make this percentile check yourself. If you succeed, you dictate how the item activates. If you do not control the item, the GM is encouraged to be entertaining with the effect. Maybe it fires off too many charges, maybe it selects a different valid target, maybe it falls dormant for a time, or maybe the effect is delayed for several rounds…

Fake It Until You Make It – Some magic items require a stronger individual to utilize properly, and you know how to make them think you’re better than you are. If a magic item requires a certain ability score to function, you can try to fake it. The DC for this check is 15 + the minimum required ability score. If you succeed on the check, the item functions as if you have the minimum required ability score. If the item requires a separate skill check to activate, both of these checks are made at the same time, so you are bound to the results of this check upon activation. You can not gain an effective ability score higher than the minimum required with this ability.

Rank 6 Uses:Item Feedback – You can use your knowledge of magical items to rig magic items to backfire when next used. This allows you to pre-determine the target of a wand, change the spell activated from a stave, or even to short out and be inoperable for 1d4 rounds as if it had been dispelled. You can specify any parameters of the spell you like, and other modifications may be made to items if your GM allows it. The DC for this check is 15 + Caster Level of the item, and doing so requires 1d4 rounds of work. If you fail the check by 5 or more you drain 1d4 charges from the item and fail to trap it.

Once an item has been trapped it remains so until the trap is sprung. A trapped item can be disarmed like any other trap; the DC is equal to 15 + your skill ranks when you trapped it.

I was toying with a similar sort of idea, but couldn't get it to gel._________________"Now that we've determined that up to π angels can dance on the head of a pin, how do we determine the specific number (or fraction) of angels dancing?"
"What if angels from another pin engage them in melee combat?"

I'm asking out of curiosity, not to provoke an arguement, and anyone who tries to turn it into one has it on their fool head.

Is there any nonpreference reason why this is a good idea (as distinct from making it so that mages don't break the game by toning them down)?

If there is, huzzah. Sincere wishes for good luck.

If not, enjoy (regardless).

Note: Survival, for instance...what can it do (besides tracking) that we don't have a spell that does the same thing?

What does it cover that leaves room for both create food/water/shelter and "DC X: You find enough food, water and shelter for an adventuring party, and track the giant back to his cave at the same time."?_________________Trust in the Emperor, but always check your ammunition.

Last edited by Elennsar on Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total

Well, actually, I say process. I've got it written, and I'm trying to come up with feats and stuff for them.

The next thing, I guess, would be the re-write of the Coglayer, but in order to do that, I'd have to rewrite every skill a Coglayer actually uses--and those skill form the core differences between Dragonmech and normal d20.

Still, I like the idea you put forth, and I'll definitely be jotting down notes on this._________________He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!

Eenteresting...sort of like bards and Perform, but for all skills and everybody (or at least, most skills and most people).

I'm up for it as long as the overtly supernatural stuff is reserved for higher levels, where everyone has to be overtly supernatural. Like Tarkis, I don't mind a 15tj-level rogue balancing on water, but I don't want a 3rd-level rogue doing the same.

Elennsar wrote:

Is there any nonpreference reason why this is a good idea (as distinct from making it so that mages don't break the game by toning them down)?

As TarkisFlux noted, mages (aside from some problem spells) don't actually break the game...mage spells are scaled appropriately to the challenges they're expected to face. Skills are not, yet skillmonkeys and spellcasters of equal level are expected to be of roughly equal power.

Solution: Expand the options/powers of skills, with a rank cap to ensure the crazy stuff doesn't happen too soon.

Sort of like epic skills, only...good._________________

MartinHarper wrote:

Babies are difficult to acquire in comparison to other sources of nutrition.

Yay support. Helps me want to do the rest of them if I'm not the only one who thinks there's potential here.

Talisman: I guess so, though I sorta forgot the Bard worked like that. Their stuff is also daily limited, and I specifically don't want to do that with skill stuff if I can avoid it, daily uses being a caster thing.

Elennsar: I've tried to answer you on that before in the context of IGTNs jump skill, but I'll take another crack at it. It's in the spoiler.

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Elennsar wrote:

I'm asking out of curiosity, not to provoke an arguement, and anyone who tries to turn it into one has it on their fool head.

Is there any nonpreference reason why this is a good idea (as distinct from making it so that mages don't break the game by toning them down)?

If there is, huzzah. Sincere wishes for good luck.

If not, enjoy (regardless).

To your first question, if you follow game logic back far enough, absolutely everything is preference based and there isn't any reason for this (or anything else really). It's a crappy answer, but it's true and needs to be said for completeness sake.

Less generically, there is actually a justification for this if you assume some of the same starting points as 3.x, most important being 1) characters of the same level are equivalently powerful, and 2) a CR creature x+2 is the equivalent of 2 x CR creatures. The first just means that characters need to all be equally useful overall, they can be useful at different times or lacking in others, but they need to do so in a consistent way. The second means that levels and challenges don't scale linearly. The thing your characters will use to deal with their challenges needs to scale at the same rate as the challenges or the characters simply don't keep up with the things they're supposed to be fighting. They also need to scale at the same rate as the other classes, or you're not at the same level as they are anymore.

Spells scale appropriately to challenges. Skills barely scale at all (opposed skills not withstanding), and I think the reason they don't is because of the issues with blocking out appropriate actions from inappropriate characters with a simple DC (like I suggested above). Two levels of spells goes from water walk to air walk (an actual relevant example even), while two levels of any skill you want to pick adds +10% success to things you could attempt already. It works at the low levels because the scaling hasn't diverged sufficiently for the cracks to show. 3.x tries to solve it by letting/encouraging people become magic item christmas trees. It fails (by default really, even if it is technically playable) because once you have some classes who require items to keep up and others that don't, they're not playing at the same level, just a lower level with a big item assist.

This is an attempt to grow skills at the same rate as spells, so that people at the same level can actually play at the same level. I think the minimum DC option also helps enforce the mundane levels, and keep things from getting weird until they need to be there to deal with challenges and keep up with the rest of their party.

I don't mind continuing to debate the point with you if you're interested, but I'd appreciate it if it went into another thread.

Elennsar wrote:

Survival, for instance...what can it do (besides tracking) that we don't have a spell that does the same thing?

What does it cover that leaves room for both create food/water/shelter and "DC X: You find enough food, water and shelter for an adventuring party, and track the giant back to his cave at the same time."?

Well, with the above I pretty much went over the epic skill uses, found spells that gave the same movement ability, then rolled a skill driven variant into the base skill with a minimum ranks that placed it 2 or more levels after the casters were doing it.

The epic uses of survival would come down to mortal land, and then I'd maybe steal a couple of spell effects and rework them. Pass without trace is a spell that could be semi-stolen and worked into the skill as some form of trail masking variant making it harder to track your group. You could also do a Freedom based effect that worked with plant / naturalish spells, like entangle or web. Since this is all out of my ass, I don't know if those are good or workable ideas right now, but that's where I'd start._________________The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org

Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."

Not that the idea isn't interesting, but, unless you're not gonna help the good skills in any way, the 3.x rogue doesn't need any help (despite its usefulness being largely an accident, inherited by some other classes - BTW, I think there was a bias there, since the skill classes that didn't inherit the rogue SA+UMD accident do suck). Also, spellcasters good at skill use get upgraded as well. OTOH, if you merely bring the crap skills to the level of the good, an argument for balance being retained might be made._________________

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Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:

A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

Huston Smith wrote:

Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

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LDSChristian wrote:

True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

I'd say the top skills, like UMD and Tumble, don't need any help since they auto-scale.

If other skills were brought up to that level of usefullness, I'd be happy.

IMO, a skill's uses should be slightly less powerful than a spell castable by an equal-level caster (8 ranks -> 3rd-level spell), since skills are at-will and highest-level spells are sharply limited. Say, 2 spell levels lower sounds about right._________________

MartinHarper wrote:

Babies are difficult to acquire in comparison to other sources of nutrition.

Bigode - Have any skills in mind specifically to stay away from? The only skills I can think of that don't really need the help are the opposed skills (hide, bluff), the "not really skills" skills (perform for non-bards, craft, profession), or they've already been tweaked lots in other places (tome diplomacy). Even the knowledges sorta scale if you only use them to ID monsters; they just suffer from general lack of utility.

I'm also drawing a blank on which casters are also good at skills, by which I mean have interesting class skills and not just bonus skill points from high INTs. Which ones would be helped significantly by this (just thought Druid has potential, any others)? Cross class rank maxes are still going to keep most of from benefiting significantly until well past the point that I care.

Talisman: UMD actually doesn't scale unless your using scrolls, otherwise it's pretty binary past mid levels. The scroll use scales appropriately though, because a singly point of bonus to UMD corresponds to a single point of caster level which has already been said to scale just fine. I think the non-scaling/scaling bit of the skill is an issue on it's own, but it's not really relevant to this thread because it is a good skill already. Potentially too good even, since you can't get by as a rogue without it, but again, a seperate issue. I was fairly intrigued by the breakup that someone suggested in the IMHO skill consolidation thread, using UMD bits to make other skills suck less. Any one else have thoughts on that?

Back on topic... As to your 2 spell levels lower point, I don't think you're distinguishing between "possible" and "reliable". Possible is just where you're going to set the minimum ranks, reliable is where you're going to set the base DC and what action cost you're going to give it and if you're going to give it any sort of wind down mechanic (like counts as running or whatever). I agree that it shouldn't be reliable until around that point, by which I mean you can get it off for a round or 5 at a time with only a little luck. I think that the attempt should be allowed only 1 spell level after though (in most cases) because I don't want the non-caster options staying too far behind the casters. It doesn't have to be the most reliable option in the world, but it needs to be an option or it quickly loses relevance._________________The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org

Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."

I agree with Talisman in that a skill should provide a new ability that functions as a spell might 2 spell levels lower. In fact, I highly agree with this in general, and I think balancing the skills against appropriate spells may be a very good idea. The problem I'm finding is that it may simply be too much to ask for there to be seven levels of improvement for each skill (getting skills equivalent to 8th level spells at level 19 is right out, I think, so that would be 1-7 going up to level 17; basic skills are easily equal to or more than 0-level spells).

I can't think of a decent solution right off the top of my head, but I'd like to see this go somewhere._________________

Absentminded_Wizard wrote:

4e PHB, p. 57 under "Target" (bolding mine) wrote:

When a power’s target entry specifies that it affects you and one or more of your allies, then you can take advantage of the power’s effect along with your team-mates. Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets. “Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not). “Creature” or “creatures” means allies and enemies both, as well as you.

Even the knowledges sorta scale if you only use them to ID monsters; they just suffer from general lack of utility.

My players find plenty of utility for the Knowledge skills.

Quote:

I'm also drawing a blank on which casters are also good at skills, by which I mean have interesting class skills and not just bonus skill points from high INTs.

Bards come to mind....6 SPs/level and a fairly decent class skill list. Probably not a game breaker, though.

Quote:

Back on topic... As to your 2 spell levels lower point, I don't think you're distinguishing between "possible" and "reliable". Possible is just where you're going to set the minimum ranks, reliable is where you're going to set the base DC and what action cost you're going to give it and if you're going to give it any sort of wind down mechanic (like counts as running or whatever). I agree that it shouldn't be reliable until around that point, by which I mean you can get it off for a round or 5 at a time with only a little luck. I think that the attempt should be allowed only 1 spell level after though (in most cases) because I don't want the non-caster options staying too far behind the casters. It doesn't have to be the most reliable option in the world, but it needs to be an option or it quickly loses relevance.

Let me use a specific example. Let's assume you can use Balance to walk on water (assuming, for the moment, that anyone ever took water walk when fly is available). Water walk is a 3rd-level spell, so I wouldn't want anyone trying to Balance on water any earlier than 5th level. Furthermore, a 5th-level caster probably has a 19-21 spellcasting ability score (18 + 1 + 2 item?), which equates to a whopping 2 3rd-level spells before specialization/domains. At best, a 5th-level cast can cast water walk three times per day. Our hypothetical water-balance can try to Balance all day, as long as he doesn't care about getting wet or eaten by crocodiles or something.

Magic is supposed to be quick and powerful, but limited. Skills are hard-earned, but can be used forever. I could see the arguement for 1 level lower, but I wouldn't go higher than that except in very special cases.

Also, skill DCs are may be a joke, depending on how available skill-boosting items are. If the skill DC is absurdly high for the assumed level, it means no one but the most maxed-out/magically augmented will be able to perform the stunt; if the skill DC is more human-scale, it means that ridiculously maxed-out/magically augmented skill users will not even have to care about the DC.

If I had to pick one I'd go with the latter: assume someone with a maxed-out skill and a decent ability bonus had, say, a 60%-70% chance of successfully using the skill at the level when they gain the new ability. Say, a 5th-level power (8 ranks) would have a DC around 20...easy if you're cheesed-out, doable if you're merely human._________________

MartinHarper wrote:

Babies are difficult to acquire in comparison to other sources of nutrition.

I like this idea, though I do have two things to say about the details. "Competent Balancer" you can do this with 5 ranks in Balance under the normal rules, and something just bothers me about the Skip on Air thing, it just seems to too grossly violate terrain in its entirety; no legitimate mechanical complaints, it just really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. No source material, as far as I know has people literally balancing on the air, lily pads, treetops, water, even clouds and smoke or even starlight, but not thin air.

Last edited by Calibron on Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total

I like this idea, though I do have two things to say about the details. "Competent Balancer" you can do this with 5 ranks in Balance under the normal rules, and something just bothers me about the Skip on Air thing, it just seems to too grossly violate terrain in its entirety; no legitimate mechanical complaints, it just really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. No source material, as far as I know has people literally balancing on the air, lily pads, treetops, water, even clouds and smoke or even starlight, but not thin air.

Run the wind: You can run. On the wind. Don't fall down now, y'hear?

Some ideas:

o Appraise
-ID quality and/or Power level (Turnip, Gold, Soul Economy value) of an item
-You can make items mastercraft, since you know the difference and what it means
-You can make items magical, or stop them from being magical
-You can turn an item of one power level, into an item of a different power level. You need items of both power levels in order to do this.

This is where Sun Plate and Bone Walls sometimes come from. Someone grabbed some normal metal armour, and rubbed Pure Hope with a polishing cloth and wire buffing brush on the armour until it sprouted wings and turned to gold.

o Balance
-done here
o Bluff
-You're an ethnic minority, you can attend KKK rallies
-You cause Confusion or Daze effects with lies that turn listeners on their heads
o Climb
-Brachiation
-Spiderclimb
-Combat Climbing
[not in that order]
o Concentration
-Do things that the old Auto-Hypnosis skill does; like ignore damage or pain effects
-Pass a failed will save for one round; but you'll have to keep Concentrating or the fact that your soul is gone will catch up with you.
-combat other psychological effects (fear, stunn, daze)
o Craft
-you need this to make magic items as a RoW fighter, dunno what else to add to it
o Decipher Script
-read scrolls
-an alternate UMD, but only for scrolls; wizards might actually max this
o Diplomacy
-This skill needs to have its chart changed back to what the chart originally was; a Charisma check chart, not a skill-check chart.
o Disable Device
-has quite a few uses from what I recall
o Disguise
-hide alignment?
-hide thoughts?
-hind your mind?
-create alter self effects?
o Escape Artist
-grapple people better, since you know how they can escape a grapple? I know it applies to real grappling martial arts, they teach 'control' and 'escape' as much as they do on 'locks'
-freedom of movement?
o Forgery
-temporarily change one item into a more powerful or weaker item that looks very similar. So, you can change a crappy watch into a rolex oyster and sell it when you're in a Japanese POW camp, King Rat style; or you can disguise the artifact that the party found into something innocous. Like a wooden magical McGuffin, instead of a glowing Jade and Gold one.
*
o Gather Information
o Handle Animal
-talk with aminales
-Diplomacy with animales
-Buff animales; Knights mounts get stuff like Nature's Fang or Barkskin, or Bull's Str
o Heal
-stop bleeding
-rapid recovery
-re-attach body parts
-re-build people
-remove psychological effects, like Charms, Geas, Compulsions etc.
-design exercise/psych training regimines; these give Inherent stat bonuses (an alternate to wishes)
o Hide
-Hides from stuff what can see/notice hidesing stuff; like Dwagons or Beholders or Minotaurs
o Intimidate
o Jump
o Knowledge
o Listen
o Move Silently
o Open Lock
o Perform
o Profession

The ones that need no help at all are IMO UMD, Listen, Spot, Hide and Move Silently - those let you choose on which end of "fvcking killing people" you'll be just by normal investment. Bluff actually does do something defined in the rules (by which I mean indeed lying, though feinting's defined too), but the exact usefulness of that's ... so campaign specific I dunno what to say - I guess let's assume that people taking it should be in games where it matters lots, so it's one of the best too. And Sense Motive's likely at whatever point Bluff is. Concentration's weird because its uses are either near-static or actually hopeless - so I'd suggest fixing its DCs and then wondering if it needs anything else. Craft: I'm not sure if it's stated in the Tomes (I think it's not in the originals, only in Iaimeki's article), but indeed the plan was for it to be a single skill - which I suppose the item creation system should use. Profession: well, you know. Diplomacy: Iaimeki only fixed the numerical problems and he knew it - other problems are still there, and I suppose it still technically wins on its own, so much that it does need further fixing (down). Intimidate: it's possible to make characters that win pretty hard with it, but moreover, simply having a party with it can lead to some pretty stupid stuff - thoughts? Perform: it didn't do anything previously, other than for a class - so I might even say replace it with something of more general purpose. Speak Language: might be fine - if it's not, what to give it? There's also the arguably-important issue of deciding on some, if any, skill compression, as various members did.

As for the skill item question bound to surface: Iaimeki's article dealt with it better than the BoG, IMO.

As for spellcasters benefitting, there's the issue that any with, say, 4 skill points/level and a couple skills that weren't decent previously and would start being would benefit. What one could list from official material: beguiler and druid definitely don't need any sort of help, bard and spirit shaman probably do actually, and I'm not sure whether artificers and factotums count (the latter might need help - the former surely not). Worth mentioning that if knowledges get improved as well (something I'd a priori not worry about, since they tend to be worse than the good skills, but look at the consequences for classes), wizards and archivists might get a big boost. I'm not sure you use the Tomes, but relevant stuff from there would be: assassin, elementalist, jester, summoner and true fiend if you're willing to count that. Worth mentioning that Frank's bard's a lot closer to a full spellcaster and still good at skill use (in fact, as Frank himself said, as good at it as the rogue)._________________

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Huston Smith wrote:

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LDSChristian wrote:

True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

Caliborn: Oops. I don't know if the 6 is a typo, an oversight, or if that made sense at the time. I wanted to spell out what the various ranks did in a clear and consistent way; there's enough extra stuff going on that I didn't want to hide stuff in skill text like it is now, which is why it's out on its own.

Talisman: I'm still not sure how you're answering the two questions. ZERO pretty clearly says that he agrees with you that it should come 2 spell levels after the spell (so 4 levels), but then you say that it would be okay to give water balancing at 5th level, the same level as divine spell casters are getting it for 10 minutes a level (Fly's a poor example, and one I think the Jump skill would be better used to deal with). I'm with you on the DC though, it should be pretty reliable no later than 2 spell levels after the spell came around.

JE: I like your list. I'm working on one of my own that pulls the epic uses down and also imports core spells that could be skill uses on their own. The later is interesting in that I don't see a lot of spells past 5th level that would work well.

Bigode: More or less with you on the skills. Skill compression is a good call for the hopeless ones, but since the scheme is a pain to sort I don't think it's a good idea to tackle it here. Easy enough to just do up the individual skills and then let people sort what stuff would live nicely together in their games.

I don't use the tomes, but it's only because I play in largely low-mid level organic games with people who don't optimize their casters; the tome stuff isn't as necessary in those situations. I cry on the inside at the inefficiency, but they're having fun I guess so I roll with it. I'd prefer this stuff to be compatible with the tomes though, and potentially included in the pdf if it's worth it, so those are considerations to keep in mind.
I guess this is a good a time as any to discuss methodology, since the general idea seems to be fine. If a skill has a use that mimics a spell (as opposed to the other way), I didn't want the skill to do it until 2 levels after the spell was in play. Magic, in my head anyway, is basically cheating, and I wanted to allow the casters their limited benefit period. All the minimum ranks above are configured that way.

After that, the DCs were mostly set to assume that someone with max ranks would need a bonus of around their level to do stuff "reliably". I didn't waste time worrying about whether that extra came from stats or feats or items or whatever because I don't really care where it comes from. I just assumed it would happen in the game and moved on, if I'm off by 2 points I don't think it matters much.

The actual abilities I tried to pull from source material and differentiate from the spells in question and build in some sort of limiting function. That's why it's harder to balance on stuff if you're not running across it, the source stuff that came to mind wasn't standing around on it but just not stopping for it. The running thing came with its own limiter, the limited duration of the run action before fatigue sets in, but it barely needs it early on since multiple use of this is basically a single failure ending skill challenge that you're unlikely to succeed at over a long enough time. Even though you could use it all day if you wanted, the limits made sure it was in smaller pieces that were pretty distinct from the larger duration, more movement flexible spell. I thought it worked out fairly well that way, but in retrospect the movement penalties might be a bit stiff._________________The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org

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For now, I'll just say that skill compression might make some skills more useful enough to not need help, but I guess it's perfectly possible to figure that out later on._________________

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:

A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.

Huston Smith wrote:

Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)

brotherfrancis75 wrote:

Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!

LDSChristian wrote:

True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.

Looks like a fair first pass. I'd like to get a "run up walls" (some vertical distance as horizontal as part of a run action with climb check) in there earlier since spider climb is such an early spell, but with full speed climbing at level 7 I'm not sure how useful/necessary it would be. Brachiation could use some more broad wording as well. I'd rather not pass up an opportunity to put chandelier swinging charges in the game for once 8)_________________The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org

Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."

Appraise
-ID quality
-Actual ID of magic item properties, which largely scales on its own even if it is entirely caster redudant in exactly the same way

Balance
-Basics down, can't think of higher level stuff to add

Bluff
-Already does Feint, and that could be improved. Need to check against Tome feats, but I don't really care about invalidating general 3.x feats.
-Allignment masking
-Surface thoughts masking
-Scry fooling

Climb
-Tali's got a fair start on this.

Concentration
-Concentration is basically a caster skill, and they're the only ones with actual access to it, so lots of interesting things to do with it aren't particularly relevant. Still...
-Fix scaling
-Steal interesting auto-hypnosis stuff
-JE's Ignoring psych stuff is interesting, but this skill largely goes to casters who don't fail the will saves anyway so the relevance is questionable
-If terrain like Lava did action loss instead of just damage, this could be an interesting counter skill. Again, non-caster relevance is off

Craft
-If this doesn't let you make level appropriate stuff, it needs to not be any more of a skill than profession.

Decipher Script
-Work less linearly, and more like comprehend after a point
-Secret page, illusory script, or code variations
-Alternate/Secondary UMD-scrolls

JE, i'd be happy with making concentration a more general ignore pain skill, but it's class skill assignments would need to be rethought. which I'm fine with, it just wasn't something i really wanted to deal with here. i'd rather do skill reimagnings (like diplomacy -> affability) as part of a larger class skill rethink, and I wanted to see if skills could be worth the effort first (even if the rethink requires additional tweaks).

Perform
-This one is a problem. There’s lots of stuff we could do with it, but it’s mostly stealing from the bard. That might work ok if we remove the skill from the class lists of everyone else…

Profession
-This isn’t a real skill. It’s fine for background stuff, but you just can’t get awesome at profession (inn keeper) or whatever. The current point limitation works fairly well, or it could get removed from the list entirely and just kept as background stuff you can also do.

Ride
-Epic stuff at a reasonable level (nothing there should be higher than level 5 or 6)
-Mount buffs to movement or AC
-Use your skills in place of mount skills (like jump or balance)

Search
-Assorted detects (magic, align, etc.) that only work on objects and have a touch range