Henry: I seem to recall that if we said the content-type was text/html, then you get an implementation defined mapping from HTML to XHTML.

15:20:52 [Norm]

Norm: Should we do it that way?

15:21:12 [Norm]

Henry: There was an implicit reference to the HTTP request step that it by default produces escaped markup.

15:21:25 [Norm]

Norm: I hope that's wrong.

15:21:53 [Norm]

Henry: We have an unescape markup step because we know that Atom, RSS, NewsML, etc can encapsulate documents with escaped markup.

15:22:14 [Norm]

...So it seems that p:http-request and p:unescape-markup have this problem.

15:22:31 [Norm]

...but what do save/serialize have to do with this?

15:22:42 [Norm]

Henry: I'd like to split receiving and producing.

15:23:22 [Norm]

Henry: How about: it's implementation defined if any media types under than application/xml or application/foo+xml are allowed. Processors are not required to support any other media types. But if they do, then it's implementation defined what mechanism they use to get from the ones they support to XML.

15:23:30 [Norm]

Murray: Are we still talking about infosets?

15:23:37 [Norm]

Henry: Yes, that's why this problem arises

15:24:03 [Norm]

Murray: So it's implementation defined how you build an infoset from something that isn't XML.

15:24:36 [Norm]

Norm: I'm happy with Henry's proposal as a starting point.

15:25:11 [Norm]

Murray: I'm worried about how many different kinds of implementation-defined we're going to get.

15:25:59 [Norm]

Murray: In GRDDL, we have an issue called faithful infosets. This arises because in GRDDL, we're talking about XPath node trees and there are questions about validation and XInclude, etc.

15:26:11 [Norm]

...This seems to create another faithful infoset issue.

15:26:52 [MoZ]

q+ to ask Murray on the difference between XPath node trees and infosets

15:28:16 [Norm]

Scribe stepped away, a few minutes lost

15:28:30 [Norm]

Henry: The things you can depend on are the minimal common subset that more-or-less the infoset defines

15:28:44 [Norm]

...It's true that there's more in the XPath 2.0 datamodel, but you can't get at it from our language.

15:30:46 [Norm]

Norm: I'm sympathetic because of web services like Flickr that allow users to get comments

15:31:03 [Norm]

Murray: I think everything needs to be able to filter to XML or you need to have a specific component that's for loading non-XML things

15:31:17 [Norm]

Henry: I think Murray is right, but we're going to cheat just a little bit and say there are two.

15:31:37 [Norm]

...I'm happy that if you want to inject HTML into your pipeline and gaurantee that it's XML then you have to use http-request.

15:32:16 [MoZ]

q+

15:33:42 [Norm]

Norm: We have load, basically only to support DTD validation

15:33:45 [Norm]

ack MoZ

15:33:45 [Zakim]

MoZ, you wanted to ask Murray on the difference between XPath node trees and infosets and to

15:34:04 [Norm]

Mohamed: I have a problem with components that translate from HTML to XML.

15:34:51 [Norm]

Norm: I want it to be implementation defined.

15:35:07 [Norm]

Mohamed: Norm, you said HTML to XHTML, but maybe we just meant HTML to XML.

15:35:14 [Norm]

Henry: Yes, I think that was my fault. All we need is XML.

15:37:53 [Norm]

Murray outlines a recent GRDDL use case about faithfulness of a representation

15:38:54 [Norm]

Murray: My initial thought was that there should be a "garbage-in" step that could reach out and bring anything in.

15:40:39 [Norm]

Norm: I think implementors will provide this if we don't

15:41:44 [Norm]

Henry: The way I read this, you can specify that you require an application/html+xml media type and that will cause the pipeline to fail if you don't get it.

15:41:57 [MoZ]

q+ to speaks about the difference between p:parameter namespace=""... and p:option without namespace@

15:42:31 [Norm]

Murray: I do an http-request and what I get back is an HTML document. I run some kind of process over that and I get some result. That result may be successful or not successfull.

15:42:41 [Norm]

...What comes out of http-request will be the result.

15:42:48 [MoZ]

s/p:parameter/c:parameter/

15:42:53 [Norm]

...But presumably I as the author of the pipeline want to know a couple of things.

15:43:25 [Norm]

Norm: I think you can find all of those things by looking at the headers and body you get back.