Just wondering, here is a ist of stuff that "other" Muslims ask Qur'an only Muslims:

Some Questions to Ask the Quran Only People

How do you know how to pray using the Quran alone?

How do you know how much Zakaah to pay using the Quran alone?

Hadn't the Quran been reached to us from the same sources we received our authentic hadith?

Why would Allah preserve the Quran and not preserve the meaning?

How much is the Jizyah that the People of the Book have to pay?

Does the Quran say that cross dressing is haram?

The Quran says that men could beat up their wives. But we know according to hadith that this is a spiritual beating and not a harmful physical. What is to stop a man from misinterpreting the Quran and beating the hell out of his wife?

Is it permissible for a man to look at a naked man?

Can I pray Salaah naked?

How do we know the order of the alcohol revelations? Maybe the first of the Quranic revelations said it was haram and then the later ones came saying that is was okay except during prayer times. How do you know the order of its revelations by using the Quran alone?

It says in the Quran to shorten the prayer when you travel. How long do you have to travel? How short to cut the prayer?

In Surah 66:3, the Prophet told his wives that he knew because Allah had informed him about it. Show me a Quranic verse where Allah had informed the Prophet about it. You cannot. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran?

Surah 2:173 shows that Allah (swt) gave an order for the Muslims to change their Qibla from (Bayt Al Maqdis in Jerusalem) to the Kabah in Mecca. However, there is no Quranic verse that shows the first order that Allah gave to make the Qibla towards Jerusalem. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran?

The Quran is passed on to us by Mutawattir narrations. Mutawattir narrations are narrations by so many people that it is just impossible for all of them to get together and plot and lie. However, we have so many Mutawattir hadith List of Mutawatir hadith http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/Index. ... ENG&Type=3 that teach things that are not in the Quran. How can you reject their authenticity with no objective evidence?

manfred wrote:Just wondering, here is a ist of this that "other" Muslims ask Qur'an only Muslims:

Some Questions to Ask the Quran Only People

How do you know how to pray using the Quran alone?

How do you know how much Zakaah to pay using the Quran alone?

Hadn't the Quran been reached to us from the same sources we received our authentic hadith?

Why would Allah preserve the Quran and not preserve the meaning?

How much is the Jizyah that the People of the Book have to pay?

Does the Quran say that cross dressing is haram?

The Quran says that men could beat up their wives. But we know according to hadith that this is a spiritual beating and not a harmful physical. What is to stop a man from misinterpreting the Quran and beating the hell out of his wife?

Is it permissible for a man to look at a naked man?

Can I pray Salaah naked?

How do we know the order of the alcohol revelations? Maybe the first of the Quranic revelations said it was haram and then the later ones came saying that is was okay except during prayer times. How do you know the order of its revelations by using the Quran alone?

It says in the Quran to shorten the prayer when you travel. How long do you have to travel? How short to cut the prayer?

In Surah 66:3, the Prophet told his wives that he knew because Allah had informed him about it. Show me a Quranic verse where Allah had informed the Prophet about it. You cannot. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran?

Surah 2:173 shows that Allah (swt) gave an order for the Muslims to change their Qibla from (Bayt Al Maqdis in Jerusalem) to the Kabah in Mecca. However, there is no Quranic verse that shows the first order that Allah gave to make the Qibla towards Jerusalem. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran?

The Quran is passed on to us by Mutawattir narrations. Mutawattir narrations are narrations by so many people that it is just impossible for all of them to get together and plot and lie. However, we have so many Mutawattir hadith List of Mutawatir hadith http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/Index. ... ENG&Type=3 that teach things that are not in the Quran. How can you reject their authenticity with no objective evidence?

I am sure none of this is new for Ahmed or Zaheer, but it is new to to us... what would you reply?

Good one, Manfred. Was away for a few days. Just saw this. Them Hadithiyoons!

I think we should start calling them Hadith Only folks.

They should not ask those silly questions because the Hadith tale-collectors and Hadith Story-tellers came two plus centuries later and their collections did not come in the markets till the arrival of the printing press.

I usually answer them this way: "Hadith came long after the Prophet had passed away and it was not in public domain. So, do you think that Muslims did not know how to do Wadu and ghusl, and were not praying, not fasting, not paying Zakath, not doing Umrah and Hajj, etc till the arrival of Hadith?"

The Hadithiyoon do not even realise that their own experts classify ahaadith (plural of hadith) into various categories such as right, authentic, good, wrong, unreliable, weak, defective and so on.

They call it Saheeh but do not even know what Saheeh Bukhari or Saheeh Muslim means.

Saheeh means correct, right, genuine, etc. Saheeh Bukhari does not mean that everything in it is Saheeh (right, correct, genuine). Saheeh Bukhari means the Collection according to Bukhari. The narrations also come from a multitude of Falaan bin Falaan, whom nobody knows.

In my humble opinion, all who defend Hadith are ignorant fools and blithering idi0ts. They have not read what Allah wants them to read and understand but rejoice in reading 2nd to a 1000th hand tales. Fortunately, they are a minority.

I wrote this for Hadithiyoons aka Hadith only Muslims on another forum:

"We Hadithiyoons believe in Hadith collections of Bukhari, Muslim, Dawood, Ma'aja and others besides Qur'aan, which does not teach us how to pray, how to fast, how to pay Zakaath, how to do Wadu and Ghusl, how to do Hajj and Umrah and so on......."

Hi sum, this is my fault, and I should ask more limited, clearer questions.

So lets just pick one issue a fairly clearly defined one, wudu/ghusl ....

Hi, BaigZaheer, so I assume you follow the "standard" Muslim prayers and the ablutions? As the forms or these are not fully defined in the Qur'an, are these to you a mere convention that individual Muslims could change for him/herself? Or could the ummah/a group of Muslims vary them?

Are these "rules" something you (presumably) follow not essential to Islam, and you merely stick to them to keep the peace with other Muslims?

Everything should be quite clear now that BaigZaheer has replied to your questions!!! Satisfied now?

On present form, he simply avoids questions that he can not answer even though he is a "scholar".

sum

Looks like you did not read this part of my reply to Manfred, who did not sound polemical at all:

They should not ask those silly questions because the Hadith tale-collectors and Hadith Story-tellers came two plus centuries later and their collections did not come in the markets till the arrival of the printing press.

You really have to change the style of making comments. This is a forum to discuss. You are free to make your point and attack the message but you are not supposed to attack the messenger. Right?

You can see how politely Manfred has put the question based on your comment. That is the way to ask.

manfred wrote:Hi sum, this is my fault, and I should ask more limited, clearer questions.

So lets just pick one issue a fairly clearly defined one, wudu/ghusl ....

Hi, BaigZaheer, so I assume you follow the "standard" Muslim prayers and the ablutions? As the forms or these are not fully defined in the Qur'an, are these to you a mere convention that individual Muslims could change for him/herself? Or could the ummah/a group of Muslims vary them?

Are these "rules" something you (presumably) follow not essential to Islam, and you merely stick to them to keep the peace with other Muslims?

It was not your fault, Manfred.

Qur'aan mentions Ghusl, which is like the ceremonial bath of the Jews. A bath taken when a person is not really clean (had passed motion to be blunt) or had intercourse with his wife. It simply means to take a shower for the purpose of praying. The prophet showed his people how to do that.

Muslims follow the way passed on by generations. There is not much difference on those two items, so there is nothing to change or vary them. I can do a ghusl and still do a wadu, if I like. Nothing wrong. The cleaner the better. Right?

Wadu is clearly mentioned in Qur'aan. So, why does one need Hadith? Anyone can follow Qur'aan and do the Wadu as Qur'aan describes. The Prophet also explained his people to do all that before the arrival of the tale-collectors.

O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.

What is not mentioned are a variety of circumstances which require wudu, such a fart, for example. And it does not spell out what "ceremonial impurity" is. Also, it is not said is the order of these ablutions matter. Similarly we are not told if there any special rules Fridays.

Then, how long before can you do this wudu? Many Muslims perform it once only for two prayer times, if they are close.

So, would a Qur'an only Muslim simply not be too concerned about all these details? They seem to matter a lot to others.... You can find endless curious discussions on this.... is sea water allowed, for example, how much water? Do I need to wash my feet if I wear leather socks? I have come across many like that, and to be honest, much of that makes me shake my head...for example, the "contact with women", if have seen Muslims asking for precise definition of the "contact"? Talking? on the same bus? Generally that is a "no". But when it comes to more personal things, then the replies get complicated... a kiss? "Petting"? "thighing"? Anal? Oral? and God knows whatever else.... Would a Qur'an only Muslim need answers to all that?

We have, curiously, an opposite idea expressed in the monastic rule of St Benedict: Nothing is to be preferred to prayer, and when it is called leave what you are doing and go to pray as soon as possible... wash when you have time for that.

This does have some odd side effects... many times I have stood in the choir next to a certain monk who looked after the cow stables... and the aroma what difficult to ignore.

BaigZaheer wrote:I wrote this for Hadithiyoons aka Hadith only Muslims on another forum:

"We Hadithiyoons believe in Hadith collections of Bukhari, Muslim, Dawood, Ma'aja and others besides Qur'aan, which does not teach us how to pray, how to fast, how to pay Zakaath, how to do Wadu and Ghusl, how to do Hajj and Umrah and so on......."

Does the Koran say WHY Muslims must do such things? In fact, does it in each case say that such things MUST be done, or simply HOW they should be done?

‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah