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Just subscribed to the list. Since the e-mail group intends for a discussion of philosophical and technical aspects of AGI, I am keen on sharing some ideas and may be eliciting some collaboration as well. It is my view the applied neuroscience research is a safer and surer way to reach general intelligence. Aspects such as reconstruction of memory as opposed to information retrieval can significantly reduce the persistence computational load. Now I am just an IT engineer, and I am still learning things, but I do write here and there, small articles on AGI related topics which I feel you'd appreciate a reading of.

Could an AI alter the course of TAR

This article isn't technical as it was for a geopolitics think-tank. But it is a rather out-of-box solution of mind transfer for a political problem, futuristic but I am keen on discussing the technical aspects, politics aside. Lately I have been trying to setup a non-profit research and advisory on artificial intelligence technologies, vying towards a neuroscientific study of intelligence. And as starting up goes, I'm resource constrained from all sides. Nevertheless all support, leads, collaboration and cooperation, is being highly looked forward to.

>>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Stefan Reich <> stefan.reich.maker.of.eye@googlemail.com> wrote:>>> Maybe explain who "you know who" is?>>>> Am 12.03.2018 22:02 schrieb "A.T. Murray" <mentificium@gmail.com>:>>>>> Yours truly Arthur here was reading Hacker News at [...]>>>>>> OK, I (Arthur) am "you know who".>> Meanwhile, the plot thickens. Yesterday I spent several hours> manually trying to remove spam from theai.wiki -- but the admin> came in and not only made the final remove of the dozens of spams> but also removed all my hard-work on "Consciousness" and "Motorium".>> What is it with these AI Establishment types, who brook no new ideas?> Does he not know with whom he is dealing? The Russian admin's profile:> "I am the almighty admin. Tremble before me.">> Now, tremblers and quakers, scared and terrified, what happens> here on the AGI mail-list, stays on the AGI mail-list, right?>> So here is the Plan of Attack -- already launched -- beyond return.>> http://ai.neocities.org/AudRecog.html -- is one of the torpedoes.>> At the bottom of the today revised AudRecog doc-page, please nortice:>> Share your ideas about AudRecog in English or Russian at the AI Wiki.> Subscribe to agi@listbox.com for discussion of Artificial General> Intelligence.> Discuss AudRecog in English on the AiForum or the AGI mail-list; or the> JavaScript subreddit for Mentifex AI Mind discussion;> Forth subreddit and robotics subreddit for MindForth discussion;> Perl subreddit for ghost.pl AI Mind Maintainers.> Return to top; or to> http://ai.neocities.org/Dushka.html>> ------- end of AudRecog footnotes; notes follow --------> Whosoever clicks on "AI Wiki" sees a blank new page to edit!> "Subscribe" to agi@listbox.com opens up the sign-up page.> The other footnote lines invite Netizens into many forums.>> Since the Almighty Admin has disabled my sincere and eager account,> You-Know-Who, Stefan, wants to wash his hands of the whole delirium> tremens.> But the basic idea of an AI Wiki was so cool, so downright thrilling,> that we withdraw only under protest, fearing that without our sincere> and eager participation, the oh-so-cool wiki will wither and die away.>> So gradually we will invite our legions of Web visitors to visit> theai.wiki and fill in their own ideas in English or Admin's Russian> for the Mentifex AI doc pages which are already in wiki-format, like> AudRecg; OldConcept; NewConcept; RuParser; RuThink; RuVerbGen.>> http://ai.neocities.org/RuThink.html -- for AI thinking in Russian -->> leads you to the blank ai.wiki "RuThink" page, at which you may> click on the drop-down Menu/Recent Changes to see if _any_> torpedo-page has been implemented. Now, if the Almighty Tremendus Admin> begs Mentifex to come back and participate in theai.wiki -- should I?>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now&#x3E; |> Modify> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&&#x3E;> Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;>

Meanwhile, the plot thickens. Yesterday I spent several hoursmanually trying to remove spam from theai.wiki -- but the admincame in and not only made the final remove of the dozens of spamsbut also removed all my hard-work on "Consciousness" and "Motorium".

What is it with these AI Establishment types, who brook no new ideas?Does he not know with whom he is dealing? The Russian admin's profile:"I am the almighty admin. Tremble before me."

Now, tremblers and quakers, scared and terrified, what happenshere on the AGI mail-list, stays on the AGI mail-list, right?

Share your ideas about AudRecog in English or Russian at the AI Wiki.Subscribe to agi@listbox.com for discussion of Artificial GeneralIntelligence.Discuss AudRecog in English on the AiForum or the AGI mail-list; or theJavaScript subreddit for Mentifex AI Mind discussion;Forth subreddit and robotics subreddit for MindForth discussion;Perl subreddit for ghost.pl AI Mind Maintainers.Return to top; or tohttp://ai.neocities.org/Dushka.html

------- end of AudRecog footnotes; notes follow --------Whosoever clicks on "AI Wiki" sees a blank new page to edit!"Subscribe" to agi@listbox.com opens up the sign-up page.The other footnote lines invite Netizens into many forums.

Since the Almighty Admin has disabled my sincere and eager account,You-Know-Who, Stefan, wants to wash his hands of the whole deliriumtremens.But the basic idea of an AI Wiki was so cool, so downright thrilling,that we withdraw only under protest, fearing that without our sincereand eager participation, the oh-so-cool wiki will wither and die away.

So gradually we will invite our legions of Web visitors to visittheai.wiki and fill in their own ideas in English or Admin's Russianfor the Mentifex AI doc pages which are already in wiki-format, likeAudRecg; OldConcept; NewConcept; RuParser; RuThink; RuVerbGen.

leads you to the blank ai.wiki "RuThink" page, at which you mayclick on the drop-down Menu/Recent Changes to see if _any_torpedo-page has been implemented. Now, if the Almighty Tremendus Adminbegs Mentifex to come back and participate in theai.wiki -- should I?

Hmmm - a smart AGIer from Africa who groks problems with IP. I would liketo have an off-forum discussion with you and anyone else who is interestedenough to actively participate, about a revolutionary plan I have to(re)claim IP rights for pretty much all those who develop IP - whoseoptimum starting location would be almost anywhere outside of the U.S.(where I am located) that already has a defective competing "system" ofpatents and copyrights, that will quickly fall by the wayside when a bettersystem emerges from somewhere else. Sort of like hashchain technology, onlysimpler, for IP.

To understand my plan well enough to participate in refining it, it isfirst necessary to fully grok the Zipf function, about which there arenumerous writeups on the Internet from various points of view.

Who here is interested in refining such a concept and reclaiming prettymuch all IP for its developers (including us)?

You can either respond here, or directly to my email, which is embedded inthis posting's header.

> Thanks Steve. That was a valuable share. I need to go spend time with Dr.> Eliza and get to know her better.>> My path has been somewhat different, and for different reasons. My vision> started off as a post-OO, adaptive methodology, which was supposed to be> able to manage complexity within diverse, project teams. I was working as a> commercial researcher then, so there was no real science behind it, just> excellent analysis.>> However, as I progressed in my learning and application, I ended up> developing what could be termed a deabstraction method. At that stage> (around 1999), the only other, known deabstraction method was actually> developed for the medical field. Method grew into methodology, and> eventually both method and a systems-of-systems-engineering framework were> submitted to the IEEE as solutions, which were successfully applied to> large-scale, socio-technical projects.>> Both submissions were approved for publication. I published the method on> IEEE, but withdrew the SoSE-type framework (The CAMF - Component> Architecture Management Framework) for personal reasons. I wanted to retain> copyright of the material for a book I intended authoring and for a future> product.>> As you so aptly stated, components tend to develop separately, and so they> were submitted separately. This, even though they actually amalgamated over> time to take on GESTALT as a real-time adaptive methodology. I have no> claim to fame. Our industry in South Africa are still dominated by> hard-hitting international corporations, who tend to harvest our IP faster> than one can blink. There is no real IP protection here.>> My accolades are dubious, in that one multinational misappropriated my> academically-submitted, direct-alignment diagram (2004) and reconstructed> my 2007 methods-diagram layout (construct rules did not change) for their> global, designer tool. The tool was launched in 2010. Most recently, I> discovered yet another multinational - of which this global giant is an AI> sponsor too - may have used my method to enable a tacit-knowledge capturing> AI product with. Same as the prior party, this one claimed all the IP and> rights were their own, yet no record could be found of any publication in> the inventor's name pertaining to tacit-knowledge capturing, or> engineering. Arthur should take note of this point. The one who> scientifically publishes first tends to own the IP, and any product without> IP rights is a sitting duck. Therefore, publish.>> The sole research aim for me now should be to build the tool, the actual> AGI platform. I have the means to take a quantum leap on the competition.> Why not do so? I know my IP is 100% in order and defendable. Getting there,> is key to all research. I hope to still get there.>> This is not me complaining, but rather sharing some hard lessons learned> along the way. All AI-related researchers should be IP cautious to a fault.> Unbeknown to these parties though, what they may have misappropriated was> certainly useful, but not the real power of the original vision. In fact,> my published designs deliberately contained logical errors. The> complex-adaptive normalization and optimization rules have never been> written down. In theory, their products should - over time - reach> breakdown points and fail at scale. That would be fair trade.>> I have since developed specializations within the generic construct, which> should theoretically enable evolutionary systems in real time. Now we're> talking about computational capabilities to engineer mutation,> recombination and diversity management. I think this should be one of the> targeted-research fields for AGI.>> In this quest, I was ably assisted over the past 4 years by a respected> professor emeritus in the USA. No more white papers were published.> Instead, I started looking for collaboration partners in order to build the> AGI platform. As an independent researcher, I still haven't found suitable> partners. Perhaps they would eventually find me. For now, I concluded there> was a plausible architecture being readied for realization. The framework> and method science is in order. Once all the components are assembled, the> rest could fairly easily be verified scientifically, or even added as new> research objectives.>> For the future then, the R&D to be completed may well be to specify the> actual multi-"brained" AGI computational model and find a suitable> programming language for encoding the logic with and setting it free to> start (im)proving itself. Sooner or later an AGI platform is going to be> needed to serve as a global and/or regional AGI information port. I would> think this may be achievable by following a similar SDLC to Dr. Eliza. To> my understanding, the logic for such a universal port is far advanced. The> areas of research I'm looking into now is mostly looking for shortcut> senses in terms of harmonics, thinking about encoding and reading> information from particlewaves, and a few other, tasty bits of the future.> I think it would be useful if Dr. Eliza could read irises, analyze> pheromones on the fingers and even detect and read auras (human em fields)> as well as applying classical medical textbooks and experience to cases.>> Further, Dr. Eliza might be able to glean invaluable truths from patients> by applying evolutionary algorithms to the actual data gathered naturally.> She might even be able to autonomously engage Siri, and a few other clever> humanoids, to help with particular, patient problems, or just by providing> networked assistance to patients with general, life issues. Any of the> future interhumanoids may facilitate a networked approach to individual or> group requirements, be it organizing autonomous transport, issueing passes,> tokens and tickets, scheduling, serving as a global messenger, providing> medical services and automatically despatching medicines to convenient> collection points via autonomous drones, etc, etc, etc. In the> interhumanoid of things (iHoT), there would be few limits to what a digital> economy may achieve.>> I think that if most AGI researchers are not already trending towards such> a future economy, then we may be missing the future markets of AGI> completely. We have to find practical uses for networked humanoids at> scale. Not simply trying to replace human jobs to "save" costs, but rather> being a lowest-cost service provider for enhancing the living conditions of> human beings. If all of economy was not geared towards bettering living> conditions of humans, then it should fail the acid test for being a Western> agent for sustainable, macro-economic growth. The East, African, and> Communist regimes tend to operate under different economic models.>> Sorry for the long message. I would hope it remained topical and> interesting for the most part.>> Rob> ______________________________________________> *From:* Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com>> *Sent:* 08 March 2018 09:23 PM> *To:* AGI> *Subject:* Re: [agi] Towards Consciousness>>> A good point. After I finally "got it" I went on to present several> peer-reviewed papers at WORLDCOMP's AI conferences, where give and take> with others working in related areas, especially the team working on the> Russian Translator project, helped me a LOT.>> BTW, the Russian Translator was later changed from processing sentence> patterns to the same sort of phrase-level processing used in DrEliza.>> Many people don't realize that papers stand on their own - regardless of> the credentials of the authors. The only thing a PhD really does for you is> where a reviewer fails to understand what you are saying, they might be> more inclined to accept a paper anyway. However, excellect grammar is> critically important, because poor grammar casts doubts on the author's> ability to publicly present his paper.>> Of course, the best place to wring out AI explanations, in preparation for> being pulled together for publication, is right here on this AGI forum.>> Steve> ===========> On 9:18AM, Thu, Mar 8, 2018 Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <> nanogr8@live.com> wrote:>> Thanks Steve. Well put.>> Why I raised a flag on this one is because this seeming "spining of the> weheels" is so uneccesaary in scientific terms. Seriously. Dedicated> researchers (many of us) have been spending years and years working towards> the realization of a vision and/or dream, or coming to grips with an> epiphany, to bring physical evidence to an imaginary step into the future.> True researchers have a working idea of a future probability. The research> question always is; How to get there?>> On this forum, our common interest is AGI, which is so multi-faceted we> could all specialize yet never meet up in the "middle" somewhere. This> approach to research is not only frustrating, but non constructivist. I'll> even venture to say that, unitl I adopted and embraced the rigour of> international exposure to science, my research wasn't scientific at all.> Until I was willing to put my work out there to be tried and tested by a> recognized scientific body, it was wonderfully worthless to me and others> alike. True researchers work within a recognized framework, and where none> exists, they would develop it and seek accreditation for the work to enable> further research on a topic.>> Arthur, you need to submit your work to critical review. Do not ask your> competition to rate your work. You are probably going to get a negative> review. Find the appropriate forum, spend the 12 months slaving over the> rigour of submitting a scientific paper, and be courageous enough to wait> for an accredited review. Afterwards, if you did get an acceptable review,> then approach fellow garage-type (or institutionalized) researchers for> collaborative purposes.>> Rob>>>>>> ------------------------------> *From:* Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com>> *Sent:* 08 March 2018 05:59 PM> *To:* AGI> *Subject:* Re: [agi] Towards Consciousness>>> On 4:02PM, Wed, Mar 7, 2018 Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <> nanogr8@live.com> wrote:> >> > "The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of> the field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in short> descriptions."> >> > I'm not sure the implications for AGI - of this statement - should> simply be passed over. What exactly are you saying, or asserting?>> Arthur has long been describing his work in vague marketing terms, instead> of terms that other researchers (like us) can relate and/or contribute to.> This is SO bad/extreme that I can't tell whether Arthur is working on some> sort of NN, some sort of NL text processor, some sort of self-modifying map> of reality, some sort of ad hoc AI, or WHAT. If whatever he has lives up to> 10% of his hype then there might be a market for it somewhere - but NOT> until he can describe what he has in less vague terms than calling it a> mind that thinks.>> I don't know if you were around when I came onto this forum with DrEliza -> making similar-sounding claims for it. Someone here (Russell) held my feet> to the fire and made me explain what I had in clear technical terms, and> convinced me to rig up some sort of an Internet interface so people here> could kick its tires. Now, I am just trying to do to/for Arthur what> Russell did to/for me, so that everyone, including Arthur, can benefit from> Arthur's hard work.>> BTW Thanks Russell.>> Steve> > ________________________________> > From: A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com>> > Sent: 07 March 2018 10:01 AM> > To: AGI> > Subject: Re: [agi] Towards Consciousness> >> >> >> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Steve Richfield <> steve.richfield@gmail.com> wrote:> >>> >> Arthur,> >>> >> On 12:52PM, Tue, Mar 6, 2018 A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com> wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Steve Richfield <> steve.richfield@gmail.com> wrote:> >> >>> >> >> Alan, Arthur, et al,> >> >>> >> >> While artfully dodging what AGI might ultimately turn out to be, it> is clear that Arthur has running code that appears to be able to do> SOMETHING that is potentially useful, which is more than most participants> here can claim.> >> >>> >> >> Sure Arthur is messianic, but isn't that a fundamental requirement> to do AGI research? Sure, Arthur oversells what he has, but let someone> here who is NOT guilty of overselling cast the first stone.> >> >>> >> >> Arthur seems to be lacking two important things, though given this> invitation he might be able to fill them in:> >> >> 1. A ~1 sentence statement using conventional computer science> terms classifying his methodology, e.g. "A self-modifying list-based> world-model having a chat-like NL interface."> >> >> >> > A miniature but expandable AI Mind coded in Forth and Perl and> JavaScript> >> > and able to think and reason with concepts in English or German or> Russian.> >>> >> The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of> the field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in short> descriptions.> >>> >> That it is coded in particular languages is implr mentation detail that> is out of place in a short description.> >> > Nevertheless, AI coders need to be informed that they may already be> proficient> > in the Perl, JavaScript or Forth language for which non-neophyte AI> software is> > readily available for studying and for tweaking. If the code in Perl is> hard to> > understand, it can be examined in JavaScript or in Forth.> >> >>> >> That it manipulates concepts in certain languages might be interesting,> especially if there is something special about these particular languages,> like SVO.> >> > God only knows what the Russians may secretly be doing with the two> > Mentifex AI Russian-thinking programs.> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> 2. Identification of a best-fit preferred embodiment real-world> application, e.g.[...]> >> >> >> > Robotics -- using the MindForth version of the Mentifex AI> >>> >> Robotics is an overbroad term. Perhaps you are referring to motion> control, or understanding NL commands, or ??> >> > Forth is historically a robotics language.> > Having the AI Mind available in Forth for robots means several things.> > Chief among them is the opportunity to translate pre-existing control> > software into Forth and to superimpose the AI Forthmind with its> >> > http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- FreeWill and> >> > http://ai.neocities.org/Motorium.html -- mind-modules.> Motorium Module of Mentifex <http://ai.neocities.org/Motorium.html&#x3E;> ai.neocities.org> Motorium module for control of robots by Mentifex AI Minds /> Motorium Module of Mentifex <http://ai.neocities.org/Motorium.html&#x3E;> ai.neocities.org> I am the AI Mind <http://ai.neocities.org/&#x3E;> ai.neocities.org> Install the Mentifex AI Mind on every possible website and computer.> Motorium module for control of robots by Mentifex AI Minds />> > Motorium Module of Mentifex> > ai.neocities.org> I am the AI Mind <http://ai.neocities.org/&#x3E;> ai.neocities.org> Install the Mentifex AI Mind on every possible website and computer.> I am the AI Mind <http://ai.neocities.org/&#x3E;> ai.neocities.org> I am the AI Mind <http://ai.neocities.org/&#x3E;> ai.neocities.org> Install the Mentifex AI Mind on every possible website and computer.> Install the Mentifex AI Mind on every possible website and computer.>> > Motorium module for control of robots by Mentifex AI Minds /> >> >> >>> >> ;> >> > Webserver AI-in-residence> >>> >> LOTS of people claim this, including my own DrEliza.com. I claim> problem solving, while others like WolframAlpha claim computational> question answering, etc. What part of this vast universe do you claim that> your approach can not only do, but do better than other competing> approaches?> >> > Chiefly I claim that my three AI Minds show concept-based AI based on> brain-theory.> >> >>> >> > -- using the ghost.pl AI Mind in Strawberry Perl5;> Nowy Ghost.pl <http://ghost.pl/&#x3E;> ghost.pl> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na> starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary> serwer jest dostepny ...> Nowy Ghost.pl <http://ghost.pl/&#x3E;> Nowy Ghost.pl <http://ghost.pl/&#x3E;> ghost.pl> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na> starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary> serwer jest dostepny ...> ghost.pl> Nowy Ghost.pl <http://ghost.pl/&#x3E;> ghost.pl> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na> starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary> serwer jest dostepny ...> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na> starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary> serwer jest dostepny ...>> >> Nowy Ghost.pl> >> ghost.pl> Nowy Ghost.pl <http://ghost.pl/&#x3E;> ghost.pl> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na> starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary> serwer jest dostepny ...>> >> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na> starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary> serwer jest dostepny ...> >>> >> This appears to be extraneous, as I presume it could be ported to other> platforms.> >>> >> > Teaching of AI principles and coding -- using the JavaScript AI Mind.> >>> >> This sounds like a potential first market.> >>> >> Steve> >> > Thanks again. In other news, this response from me was delayed while I> > fleshed out the documentation webpages above for Volition and Motorium.> >> > http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- as of today 2018-03-06 now has> > arguably the most informative of all my ASCII mind-diagrams, since it> > shows the interplay of the sensorium, abstract conceptual memory,> > and concrete motor activation memory.> >> > Respectfully submitted to the AGI list,> >> > Arthur> >>> >>> >> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing> >> www.listbox.com> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.>> >> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your> campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook> or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all> your mass email in one spot.> >> >> > AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription> > Listbox &bull; Email Marketing> > www.listbox.com> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.>> > Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.> >> > AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now&#x3E; |> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&&#x3E; Your Subscription> <http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. 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Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now&#x3E; |> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&&#x3E; Your Subscription> <http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now&#x3E; |> Modify> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&&#x3E;> Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;>

Thanks Steve. That was a valuable share. I need to go spend time with Dr. Eliza and get to know her better.

My path has been somewhat different, and for different reasons. My vision started off as a post-OO, adaptive methodology, which was supposed to be able to manage complexity within diverse, project teams. I was working as a commercial researcher then, so there was no real science behind it, just excellent analysis.

However, as I progressed in my learning and application, I ended up developing what could be termed a deabstraction method. At that stage (around 1999), the only other, known deabstraction method was actually developed for the medical field. Method grew into methodology, and eventually both method and a systems-of-systems-engineering framework were submitted to the IEEE as solutions, which were successfully applied to large-scale, socio-technical projects.

Both submissions were approved for publication. I published the method on IEEE, but withdrew the SoSE-type framework (The CAMF - Component Architecture Management Framework) for personal reasons. I wanted to retain copyright of the material for a book I intended authoring and for a future product.

As you so aptly stated, components tend to develop separately, and so they were submitted separately. This, even though they actually amalgamated over time to take on GESTALT as a real-time adaptive methodology. I have no claim to fame. Our industry in South Africa are still dominated by hard-hitting international corporations, who tend to harvest our IP faster than one can blink. There is no real IP protection here.

My accolades are dubious, in that one multinational misappropriated my academically-submitted, direct-alignment diagram (2004) and reconstructed my 2007 methods-diagram layout (construct rules did not change) for their global, designer tool. The tool was launched in 2010. Most recently, I discovered yet another multinational - of which this global giant is an AI sponsor too - may have used my method to enable a tacit-knowledge capturing AI product with. Same as the prior party, this one claimed all the IP and rights were their own, yet no record could be found of any publication in the inventor's name pertaining to tacit-knowledge capturing, or engineering. Arthur should take note of this point. The one who scientifically publishes first tends to own the IP, and any product without IP rights is a sitting duck. Therefore, publish.

The sole research aim for me now should be to build the tool, the actual AGI platform. I have the means to take a quantum leap on the competition. Why not do so? I know my IP is 100% in order and defendable. Getting there, is key to all research. I hope to still get there.

This is not me complaining, but rather sharing some hard lessons learned along the way. All AI-related researchers should be IP cautious to a fault. Unbeknown to these parties though, what they may have misappropriated was certainly useful, but not the real power of the original vision. In fact, my published designs deliberately contained logical errors. The complex-adaptive normalization and optimization rules have never been written down. In theory, their products should - over time - reach breakdown points and fail at scale. That would be fair trade.

I have since developed specializations within the generic construct, which should theoretically enable evolutionary systems in real time. Now we're talking about computational capabilities to engineer mutation, recombination and diversity management. I think this should be one of the targeted-research fields for AGI.

In this quest, I was ably assisted over the past 4 years by a respected professor emeritus in the USA. No more white papers were published. Instead, I started looking for collaboration partners in order to build the AGI platform. As an independent researcher, I still haven't found suitable partners. Perhaps they would eventually find me. For now, I concluded there was a plausible architecture being readied for realization. The framework and method science is in order. Once all the components are assembled, the rest could fairly easily be verified scientifically, or even added as new research objectives.

For the future then, the R&D to be completed may well be to specify the actual multi-"brained" AGI computational model and find a suitable programming language for encoding the logic with and setting it free to start (im)proving itself. Sooner or later an AGI platform is going to be needed to serve as a global and/or regional AGI information port. I would think this may be achievable by following a similar SDLC to Dr. Eliza. To my understanding, the logic for such a universal port is far advanced. The areas of research I'm looking into now is mostly looking for shortcut senses in terms of harmonics, thinking about encoding and reading information from particlewaves, and a few other, tasty bits of the future. I think it would be useful if Dr. Eliza could read irises, analyze pheromones on the fingers and even detect and read auras (human em fields) as well as applying classical medical textbooks and experience to cases.

Further, Dr. Eliza might be able to glean invaluable truths from patients by applying evolutionary algorithms to the actual data gathered naturally. She might even be able to autonomously engage Siri, and a few other clever humanoids, to help with particular, patient problems, or just by providing networked assistance to patients with general, life issues. Any of the future interhumanoids may facilitate a networked approach to individual or group requirements, be it organizing autonomous transport, issueing passes, tokens and tickets, scheduling, serving as a global messenger, providing medical services and automatically despatching medicines to convenient collection points via autonomous drones, etc, etc, etc. In the interhumanoid of things (iHoT), there would be few limits to what a digital economy may achieve.

I think that if most AGI researchers are not already trending towards such a future economy, then we may be missing the future markets of AGI completely. We have to find practical uses for networked humanoids at scale. Not simply trying to replace human jobs to "save" costs, but rather being a lowest-cost service provider for enhancing the living conditions of human beings. If all of economy was not geared towards bettering living conditions of humans, then it should fail the acid test for being a Western agent for sustainable, macro-economic growth. The East, African, and Communist regimes tend to operate under different economic models.

Sorry for the long message. I would hope it remained topical and interesting for the most part.

A good point. After I finally "got it" I went on to present several peer-reviewed papers at WORLDCOMP's AI conferences, where give and take with others working in related areas, especially the team working on the Russian Translator project, helped me a LOT.

BTW, the Russian Translator was later changed from processing sentence patterns to the same sort of phrase-level processing used in DrEliza.

Many people don't realize that papers stand on their own - regardless of the credentials of the authors. The only thing a PhD really does for you is where a reviewer fails to understand what you are saying, they might be more inclined to accept a paper anyway. However, excellect grammar is critically important, because poor grammar casts doubts on the author's ability to publicly present his paper.

Of course, the best place to wring out AI explanations, in preparation for being pulled together for publication, is right here on this AGI forum.

Why I raised a flag on this one is because this seeming "spining of the weheels" is so uneccesaary in scientific terms. Seriously. Dedicated researchers (many of us) have been spending years and years working towards the realization of a vision and/or dream, or coming to grips with an epiphany, to bring physical evidence to an imaginary step into the future. True researchers have a working idea of a future probability. The research question always is; How to get there?

On this forum, our common interest is AGI, which is so multi-faceted we could all specialize yet never meet up in the "middle" somewhere. This approach to research is not only frustrating, but non constructivist. I'll even venture to say that, unitl I adopted and embraced the rigour of international exposure to science, my research wasn't scientific at all. Until I was willing to put my work out there to be tried and tested by a recognized scientific body, it was wonderfully worthless to me and others alike. True researchers work within a recognized framework, and where none exists, they would develop it and seek accreditation for the work to enable further research on a topic.

Arthur, you need to submit your work to critical review. Do not ask your competition to rate your work. You are probably going to get a negative review. Find the appropriate forum, spend the 12 months slaving over the rigour of submitting a scientific paper, and be courageous enough to wait for an accredited review. Afterwards, if you did get an acceptable review, then approach fellow garage-type (or institutionalized) researchers for collaborative purposes.

On 4:02PM, Wed, Mar 7, 2018 Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <nanogr8@live.com<mailto:nanogr8@live.com>&#x3E; wrote:>> "The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of the field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in short descriptions.">> I'm not sure the implications for AGI - of this statement - should simply be passed over. What exactly are you saying, or asserting?

Arthur has long been describing his work in vague marketing terms, instead of terms that other researchers (like us) can relate and/or contribute to. This is SO bad/extreme that I can't tell whether Arthur is working on some sort of NN, some sort of NL text processor, some sort of self-modifying map of reality, some sort of ad hoc AI, or WHAT. If whatever he has lives up to 10% of his hype then there might be a market for it somewhere - but NOT until he can describe what he has in less vague terms than calling it a mind that thinks.

I don't know if you were around when I came onto this forum with DrEliza - making similar-sounding claims for it. Someone here (Russell) held my feet to the fire and made me explain what I had in clear technical terms, and convinced me to rig up some sort of an Internet interface so people here could kick its tires. Now, I am just trying to do to/for Arthur what Russell did to/for me, so that everyone, including Arthur, can benefit from Arthur's hard work.

BTW Thanks Russell.

Steve> ________________________________> From: A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com<mailto:mentificium@gmail.com>&#x3E;> Sent: 07 March 2018 10:01 AM> To: AGI> Subject: Re: [agi] Towards Consciousness>>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com<mailto:steve.richfield@gmail.com>&#x3E; wrote:>>>> Arthur,>>>> On 12:52PM, Tue, Mar 6, 2018 A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com<mailto:mentificium@gmail.com>&#x3E; wrote:>> >>> >>> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com<mailto:steve.richfield@gmail.com>&#x3E; wrote:>> >>>> >> Alan, Arthur, et al,>> >>>> >> While artfully dodging what AGI might ultimately turn out to be, it is clear that Arthur has running code that appears to be able to do SOMETHING that is potentially useful, which is more than most participants here can claim.>> >>>> >> Sure Arthur is messianic, but isn't that a fundamental requirement to do AGI research? Sure, Arthur oversells what he has, but let someone here who is NOT guilty of overselling cast the first stone.>> >>>> >> Arthur seems to be lacking two important things, though given this invitation he might be able to fill them in:>> >> 1. A ~1 sentence statement using conventional computer science terms classifying his methodology, e.g. "A self-modifying list-based world-model having a chat-like NL interface.">> >>> > A miniature but expandable AI Mind coded in Forth and Perl and JavaScript>> > and able to think and reason with concepts in English or German or Russian.>>>> The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of the field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in short descriptions.>>>> That it is coded in particular languages is implr mentation detail that is out of place in a short description.>> Nevertheless, AI coders need to be informed that they may already be proficient> in the Perl, JavaScript or Forth language for which non-neophyte AI software is> readily available for studying and for tweaking. If the code in Perl is hard to> understand, it can be examined in JavaScript or in Forth.>>>>> That it manipulates concepts in certain languages might be interesting, especially if there is something special about these particular languages, like SVO.>> God only knows what the Russians may secretly be doing with the two> Mentifex AI Russian-thinking programs.>>>> >>> >>>> >> 2. Identification of a best-fit preferred embodiment real-world application, e.g.[...]>> >>> > Robotics -- using the MindForth version of the Mentifex AI>>>> Robotics is an overbroad term. Perhaps you are referring to motion control, or understanding NL commands, or ??>> Forth is historically a robotics language.> Having the AI Mind available in Forth for robots means several things.> Chief among them is the opportunity to translate pre-existing control> software into Forth and to superimpose the AI Forthmind with its>> http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- FreeWill and>> http://ai.neocities.org/Motorium.html -- mind-modules.

> Motorium module for control of robots by Mentifex AI Minds />>>>>> ;>> > Webserver AI-in-residence>>>> LOTS of people claim this, including my own DrEliza.com. I claim problem solving, while others like WolframAlpha claim computational question answering, etc. What part of this vast universe do you claim that your approach can not only do, but do better than other competing approaches?>> Chiefly I claim that my three AI Minds show concept-based AI based on brain-theory.>>>>> > -- using the ghost.pl<http://ghost.pl&#x3E; AI Mind in Strawberry Perl5;Nowy Ghost.pl<http://ghost.pl/&#x3E;ghost.plNowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary serwer jest dostepny ...

>> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary serwer jest dostepny ...>>>> This appears to be extraneous, as I presume it could be ported to other platforms.>>>> > Teaching of AI principles and coding -- using the JavaScript AI Mind.>>>> This sounds like a potential first market.>>>> Steve>> Thanks again. In other news, this response from me was delayed while I> fleshed out the documentation webpages above for Volition and Motorium.>> http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- as of today 2018-03-06 now has> arguably the most informative of all my ASCII mind-diagrams, since it> shows the interplay of the sensorium, abstract conceptual memory,> and concrete motor activation memory.>> Respectfully submitted to the AGI list,>> Arthur>>>>>> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing>> www.listbox.com<http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;Listbox &bull; Email Marketing<http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;www.listbox.comEasy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.

Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.

>> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.>>> AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing> www.listbox.com<http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;Listbox &bull; Email Marketing<http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;www.listbox.comEasy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.

Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.

> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.>> AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription

Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.

A good point. After I finally "got it" I went on to present severalpeer-reviewed papers at WORLDCOMP's AI conferences, where give and takewith others working in related areas, especially the team working on theRussian Translator project, helped me a LOT.

BTW, the Russian Translator was later changed from processing sentencepatterns to the same sort of phrase-level processing used in DrEliza.

Many people don't realize that papers stand on their own - regardless ofthe credentials of the authors. The only thing a PhD really does for you iswhere a reviewer fails to understand what you are saying, they might bemore inclined to accept a paper anyway. However, excellect grammar iscritically important, because poor grammar casts doubts on the author'sability to publicly present his paper.

Of course, the best place to wring out AI explanations, in preparation forbeing pulled together for publication, is right here on this AGI forum.

> Thanks Steve. Well put.>> Why I raised a flag on this one is because this seeming "spining of the> weheels" is so uneccesaary in scientific terms. Seriously. Dedicated> researchers (many of us) have been spending years and years working towards> the realization of a vision and/or dream, or coming to grips with an> epiphany, to bring physical evidence to an imaginary step into the future.> True researchers have a working idea of a future probability. The research> question always is; How to get there?>> On this forum, our common interest is AGI, which is so multi-faceted we> could all specialize yet never meet up in the "middle" somewhere. This> approach to research is not only frustrating, but non constructivist. I'll> even venture to say that, unitl I adopted and embraced the rigour of> international exposure to science, my research wasn't scientific at all.> Until I was willing to put my work out there to be tried and tested by a> recognized scientific body, it was wonderfully worthless to me and others> alike. True researchers work within a recognized framework, and where none> exists, they would develop it and seek accreditation for the work to enable> further research on a topic.>> Arthur, you need to submit your work to critical review. Do not ask your> competition to rate your work. You are probably going to get a negative> review. Find the appropriate forum, spend the 12 months slaving over the> rigour of submitting a scientific paper, and be courageous enough to wait> for an accredited review. Afterwards, if you did get an acceptable review,> then approach fellow garage-type (or institutionalized) researchers for> collaborative purposes.>> Rob>>>>>> ------------------------------> *From:* Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com>> *Sent:* 08 March 2018 05:59 PM> *To:* AGI> *Subject:* Re: [agi] Towards Consciousness>>> On 4:02PM, Wed, Mar 7, 2018 Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <> nanogr8@live.com> wrote:> >> > "The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of> the field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in short> descriptions."> >> > I'm not sure the implications for AGI - of this statement - should> simply be passed over. What exactly are you saying, or asserting?>> Arthur has long been describing his work in vague marketing terms, instead> of terms that other researchers (like us) can relate and/or contribute to.> This is SO bad/extreme that I can't tell whether Arthur is working on some> sort of NN, some sort of NL text processor, some sort of self-modifying map> of reality, some sort of ad hoc AI, or WHAT. If whatever he has lives up to> 10% of his hype then there might be a market for it somewhere - but NOT> until he can describe what he has in less vague terms than calling it a> mind that thinks.>> I don't know if you were around when I came onto this forum with DrEliza -> making similar-sounding claims for it. Someone here (Russell) held my feet> to the fire and made me explain what I had in clear technical terms, and> convinced me to rig up some sort of an Internet interface so people here> could kick its tires. Now, I am just trying to do to/for Arthur what> Russell did to/for me, so that everyone, including Arthur, can benefit from> Arthur's hard work.>> BTW Thanks Russell.>> Steve> > ________________________________> > From: A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com>> > Sent: 07 March 2018 10:01 AM> > To: AGI> > Subject: Re: [agi] Towards Consciousness> >> >> >> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Steve Richfield <> steve.richfield@gmail.com> wrote:> >>> >> Arthur,> >>> >> On 12:52PM, Tue, Mar 6, 2018 A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com> wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Steve Richfield <> steve.richfield@gmail.com> wrote:> >> >>> >> >> Alan, Arthur, et al,> >> >>> >> >> While artfully dodging what AGI might ultimately turn out to be, it> is clear that Arthur has running code that appears to be able to do> SOMETHING that is potentially useful, which is more than most participants> here can claim.> >> >>> >> >> Sure Arthur is messianic, but isn't that a fundamental requirement> to do AGI research? Sure, Arthur oversells what he has, but let someone> here who is NOT guilty of overselling cast the first stone.> >> >>> >> >> Arthur seems to be lacking two important things, though given this> invitation he might be able to fill them in:> >> >> 1. A ~1 sentence statement using conventional computer science> terms classifying his methodology, e.g. "A self-modifying list-based> world-model having a chat-like NL interface."> >> >> >> > A miniature but expandable AI Mind coded in Forth and Perl and> JavaScript> >> > and able to think and reason with concepts in English or German or> Russian.> >>> >> The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of> the field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in short> descriptions.> >>> >> That it is coded in particular languages is implr mentation detail that> is out of place in a short description.> >> > Nevertheless, AI coders need to be informed that they may already be> proficient> > in the Perl, JavaScript or Forth language for which non-neophyte AI> software is> > readily available for studying and for tweaking. If the code in Perl is> hard to> > understand, it can be examined in JavaScript or in Forth.> >> >>> >> That it manipulates concepts in certain languages might be interesting,> especially if there is something special about these particular languages,> like SVO.> >> > God only knows what the Russians may secretly be doing with the two> > Mentifex AI Russian-thinking programs.> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> 2. Identification of a best-fit preferred embodiment real-world> application, e.g.[...]> >> >> >> > Robotics -- using the MindForth version of the Mentifex AI> >>> >> Robotics is an overbroad term. Perhaps you are referring to motion> control, or understanding NL commands, or ??> >> > Forth is historically a robotics language.> > Having the AI Mind available in Forth for robots means several things.> > Chief among them is the opportunity to translate pre-existing control> > software into Forth and to superimpose the AI Forthmind with its> >> > http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- FreeWill and> >> > http://ai.neocities.org/Motorium.html -- mind-modules.> Motorium Module of Mentifex <http://ai.neocities.org/Motorium.html&#x3E;> ai.neocities.org> Motorium module for control of robots by Mentifex AI Minds />> > Motorium Module of Mentifex> > ai.neocities.org> I am the AI Mind <http://ai.neocities.org/&#x3E;> ai.neocities.org> Install the Mentifex AI Mind on every possible website and computer.>> > Motorium module for control of robots by Mentifex AI Minds /> >> >> >>> >> ;> >> > Webserver AI-in-residence> >>> >> LOTS of people claim this, including my own DrEliza.com. I claim> problem solving, while others like WolframAlpha claim computational> question answering, etc. What part of this vast universe do you claim that> your approach can not only do, but do better than other competing> approaches?> >> > Chiefly I claim that my three AI Minds show concept-based AI based on> brain-theory.> >> >>> >> > -- using the ghost.pl AI Mind in Strawberry Perl5;> Nowy Ghost.pl <http://ghost.pl/&#x3E;> ghost.pl> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na> starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary> serwer jest dostepny ...>> >> Nowy Ghost.pl> >> ghost.pl> >> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na> starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary> serwer jest dostepny ...> >>> >> This appears to be extraneous, as I presume it could be ported to other> platforms.> >>> >> > Teaching of AI principles and coding -- using the JavaScript AI Mind.> >>> >> This sounds like a potential first market.> >>> >> Steve> >> > Thanks again. In other news, this response from me was delayed while I> > fleshed out the documentation webpages above for Volition and Motorium.> >> > http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- as of today 2018-03-06 now has> > arguably the most informative of all my ASCII mind-diagrams, since it> > shows the interplay of the sensorium, abstract conceptual memory,> > and concrete motor activation memory.> >> > Respectfully submitted to the AGI list,> >> > Arthur> >>> >>> >> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing> >> www.listbox.com> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.>> >> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your> campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook> or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all> your mass email in one spot.> >> >> > AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription> > Listbox &bull; Email Marketing> > www.listbox.com> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.>> > Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.> >> > AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now&#x3E; |> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&&#x3E; Your Subscription> <http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing <http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign> in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac> Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass> email in one spot.> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now&#x3E; |> Modify> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&&#x3E;> Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;>

Why I raised a flag on this one is because this seeming "spining of the weheels" is so uneccesaary in scientific terms. Seriously. Dedicated researchers (many of us) have been spending years and years working towards the realization of a vision and/or dream, or coming to grips with an epiphany, to bring physical evidence to an imaginary step into the future. True researchers have a working idea of a future probability. The research question always is; How to get there?

On this forum, our common interest is AGI, which is so multi-faceted we could all specialize yet never meet up in the "middle" somewhere. This approach to research is not only frustrating, but non constructivist. I'll even venture to say that, unitl I adopted and embraced the rigour of international exposure to science, my research wasn't scientific at all. Until I was willing to put my work out there to be tried and tested by a recognized scientific body, it was wonderfully worthless to me and others alike. True researchers work within a recognized framework, and where none exists, they would develop it and seek accreditation for the work to enable further research on a topic.

Arthur, you need to submit your work to critical review. Do not ask your competition to rate your work. You are probably going to get a negative review. Find the appropriate forum, spend the 12 months slaving over the rigour of submitting a scientific paper, and be courageous enough to wait for an accredited review. Afterwards, if you did get an acceptable review, then approach fellow garage-type (or institutionalized) researchers for collaborative purposes.

On 4:02PM, Wed, Mar 7, 2018 Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <nanogr8@live.com<mailto:nanogr8@live.com>&#x3E; wrote:>> "The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of the field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in short descriptions.">> I'm not sure the implications for AGI - of this statement - should simply be passed over. What exactly are you saying, or asserting?

Arthur has long been describing his work in vague marketing terms, instead of terms that other researchers (like us) can relate and/or contribute to. This is SO bad/extreme that I can't tell whether Arthur is working on some sort of NN, some sort of NL text processor, some sort of self-modifying map of reality, some sort of ad hoc AI, or WHAT. If whatever he has lives up to 10% of his hype then there might be a market for it somewhere - but NOT until he can describe what he has in less vague terms than calling it a mind that thinks.

I don't know if you were around when I came onto this forum with DrEliza - making similar-sounding claims for it. Someone here (Russell) held my feet to the fire and made me explain what I had in clear technical terms, and convinced me to rig up some sort of an Internet interface so people here could kick its tires. Now, I am just trying to do to/for Arthur what Russell did to/for me, so that everyone, including Arthur, can benefit from Arthur's hard work.

BTW Thanks Russell.

Steve> ________________________________> From: A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com<mailto:mentificium@gmail.com>&#x3E;> Sent: 07 March 2018 10:01 AM> To: AGI> Subject: Re: [agi] Towards Consciousness>>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com<mailto:steve.richfield@gmail.com>&#x3E; wrote:>>>> Arthur,>>>> On 12:52PM, Tue, Mar 6, 2018 A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com<mailto:mentificium@gmail.com>&#x3E; wrote:>> >>> >>> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com<mailto:steve.richfield@gmail.com>&#x3E; wrote:>> >>>> >> Alan, Arthur, et al,>> >>>> >> While artfully dodging what AGI might ultimately turn out to be, it is clear that Arthur has running code that appears to be able to do SOMETHING that is potentially useful, which is more than most participants here can claim.>> >>>> >> Sure Arthur is messianic, but isn't that a fundamental requirement to do AGI research? Sure, Arthur oversells what he has, but let someone here who is NOT guilty of overselling cast the first stone.>> >>>> >> Arthur seems to be lacking two important things, though given this invitation he might be able to fill them in:>> >> 1. A ~1 sentence statement using conventional computer science terms classifying his methodology, e.g. "A self-modifying list-based world-model having a chat-like NL interface.">> >>> > A miniature but expandable AI Mind coded in Forth and Perl and JavaScript>> > and able to think and reason with concepts in English or German or Russian.>>>> The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of the field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in short descriptions.>>>> That it is coded in particular languages is implr mentation detail that is out of place in a short description.>> Nevertheless, AI coders need to be informed that they may already be proficient> in the Perl, JavaScript or Forth language for which non-neophyte AI software is> readily available for studying and for tweaking. If the code in Perl is hard to> understand, it can be examined in JavaScript or in Forth.>>>>> That it manipulates concepts in certain languages might be interesting, especially if there is something special about these particular languages, like SVO.>> God only knows what the Russians may secretly be doing with the two> Mentifex AI Russian-thinking programs.>>>> >>> >>>> >> 2. Identification of a best-fit preferred embodiment real-world application, e.g.[...]>> >>> > Robotics -- using the MindForth version of the Mentifex AI>>>> Robotics is an overbroad term. Perhaps you are referring to motion control, or understanding NL commands, or ??>> Forth is historically a robotics language.> Having the AI Mind available in Forth for robots means several things.> Chief among them is the opportunity to translate pre-existing control> software into Forth and to superimpose the AI Forthmind with its>> http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- FreeWill and>> http://ai.neocities.org/Motorium.html -- mind-modules.

> Motorium module for control of robots by Mentifex AI Minds />>>>>> ;>> > Webserver AI-in-residence>>>> LOTS of people claim this, including my own DrEliza.com. I claim problem solving, while others like WolframAlpha claim computational question answering, etc. What part of this vast universe do you claim that your approach can not only do, but do better than other competing approaches?>> Chiefly I claim that my three AI Minds show concept-based AI based on brain-theory.>>>>> > -- using the ghost.pl<http://ghost.pl&#x3E; AI Mind in Strawberry Perl5;Nowy Ghost.pl<http://ghost.pl/&#x3E;ghost.plNowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary serwer jest dostepny ...

>> Nowy Ghost.pl>> ghost.pl<http://ghost.pl&#x3E;>> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) na starym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Stary serwer jest dostepny ...>>>> This appears to be extraneous, as I presume it could be ported to other platforms.>>>> > Teaching of AI principles and coding -- using the JavaScript AI Mind.>>>> This sounds like a potential first market.>>>> Steve>> Thanks again. In other news, this response from me was delayed while I> fleshed out the documentation webpages above for Volition and Motorium.>> http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- as of today 2018-03-06 now has> arguably the most informative of all my ASCII mind-diagrams, since it> shows the interplay of the sensorium, abstract conceptual memory,> and concrete motor activation memory.>> Respectfully submitted to the AGI list,>> Arthur>>>>>> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing>> www.listbox.com<http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;Listbox &bull; Email Marketing<http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;www.listbox.comEasy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.

>> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.>>> AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing> www.listbox.com<http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;Listbox &bull; Email Marketing<http://www.listbox.com/&#x3E;www.listbox.comEasy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.

> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaign in our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or Mac Mail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your mass email in one spot.>> AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription

On 4:02PM, Wed, Mar 7, 2018 Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <nanogr8@live.com> wrote:>> "The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside ofthe field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in shortdescriptions.">> I'm not sure the implications for AGI - of this statement - should simplybe passed over. What exactly are you saying, or asserting?

Arthur has long been describing his work in vague marketing terms, insteadof terms that other researchers (like us) can relate and/or contribute to.This is SO bad/extreme that I can't tell whether Arthur is working on somesort of NN, some sort of NL text processor, some sort of self-modifying mapof reality, some sort of ad hoc AI, or WHAT. If whatever he has lives up to10% of his hype then there might be a market for it somewhere - but NOTuntil he can describe what he has in less vague terms than calling it amind that thinks.

I don't know if you were around when I came onto this forum with DrEliza -making similar-sounding claims for it. Someone here (Russell) held my feetto the fire and made me explain what I had in clear technical terms, andconvinced me to rig up some sort of an Internet interface so people herecould kick its tires. Now, I am just trying to do to/for Arthur whatRussell did to/for me, so that everyone, including Arthur, can benefit fromArthur's hard work.

BTW Thanks Russell.

Steve> ________________________________> From: A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com>> Sent: 07 March 2018 10:01 AM> To: AGI> Subject: Re: [agi] Towards Consciousness>>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com>wrote:>>>> Arthur,>>>> On 12:52PM, Tue, Mar 6, 2018 A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com> wrote:>> >>> >>> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com> wrote:>> >>>> >> Alan, Arthur, et al,>> >>>> >> While artfully dodging what AGI might ultimately turn out to be, itis clear that Arthur has running code that appears to be able to doSOMETHING that is potentially useful, which is more than most participantshere can claim.>> >>>> >> Sure Arthur is messianic, but isn't that a fundamental requirement todo AGI research? Sure, Arthur oversells what he has, but let someone herewho is NOT guilty of overselling cast the first stone.>> >>>> >> Arthur seems to be lacking two important things, though given thisinvitation he might be able to fill them in:>> >> 1. A ~1 sentence statement using conventional computer science termsclassifying his methodology, e.g. "A self-modifying list-based world-modelhaving a chat-like NL interface.">> >>> > A miniature but expandable AI Mind coded in Forth and Perl andJavaScript>> > and able to think and reason with concepts in English or German orRussian.>>>> The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside ofthe field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in shortdescriptions.>>>> That it is coded in particular languages is implr mentation detail thatis out of place in a short description.>> Nevertheless, AI coders need to be informed that they may already beproficient> in the Perl, JavaScript or Forth language for which non-neophyte AIsoftware is> readily available for studying and for tweaking. If the code in Perl ishard to> understand, it can be examined in JavaScript or in Forth.>>>>> That it manipulates concepts in certain languages might be interesting,especially if there is something special about these particular languages,like SVO.>> God only knows what the Russians may secretly be doing with the two> Mentifex AI Russian-thinking programs.>>>> >>> >>>> >> 2. Identification of a best-fit preferred embodiment real-worldapplication, e.g.[...]>> >>> > Robotics -- using the MindForth version of the Mentifex AI>>>> Robotics is an overbroad term. Perhaps you are referring to motioncontrol, or understanding NL commands, or ??>> Forth is historically a robotics language.> Having the AI Mind available in Forth for robots means several things.> Chief among them is the opportunity to translate pre-existing control> software into Forth and to superimpose the AI Forthmind with its>> http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- FreeWill and>> http://ai.neocities.org/Motorium.html -- mind-modules.> Motorium Module of Mentifex> ai.neocities.org> Motorium module for control of robots by Mentifex AI Minds />>>>>> ;>> > Webserver AI-in-residence>>>> LOTS of people claim this, including my own DrEliza.com. I claim problemsolving, while others like WolframAlpha claim computational questionanswering, etc. What part of this vast universe do you claim that yourapproach can not only do, but do better than other competing approaches?>> Chiefly I claim that my three AI Minds show concept-based AI based onbrain-theory.>>>>> > -- using the ghost.pl AI Mind in Strawberry Perl5;>> Nowy Ghost.pl>> ghost.pl>> Nowy Ghost.pl . Strona tymczasowa. Dostep do webmaila (Squirrelmail) nastarym serwerze: http://poznan.ghost.pl/squirrelmail/src/login.php. Staryserwer jest dostepny ...>>>> This appears to be extraneous, as I presume it could be ported to otherplatforms.>>>> > Teaching of AI principles and coding -- using the JavaScript AI Mind.>>>> This sounds like a potential first market.>>>> Steve>> Thanks again. In other news, this response from me was delayed while I> fleshed out the documentation webpages above for Volition and Motorium.>> http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- as of today 2018-03-06 now has> arguably the most informative of all my ASCII mind-diagrams, since it> shows the interplay of the sensorium, abstract conceptual memory,> and concrete motor activation memory.>> Respectfully submitted to the AGI list,>> Arthur>>>>>> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing>> www.listbox.com>> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaignin our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or MacMail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your massemail in one spot.>>> AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription> Listbox &bull; Email Marketing> www.listbox.com> Easy-to-use Email marketing services, where you can create your campaignin our online composer or from your own email program like Outlook or MacMail. Listbox also offers discussion lists, so you can manage all your massemail in one spot.>> AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription

On 12:52PM, Tue, Mar 6, 2018 A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com<mailto:mentificium@gmail.com>&#x3E; wrote:>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com<mailto:steve.richfield@gmail.com>&#x3E; wrote:>>>> Alan, Arthur, et al,>>>> While artfully dodging what AGI might ultimately turn out to be, it is clear that Arthur has running code that appears to be able to do SOMETHING that is potentially useful, which is more than most participants here can claim.>>>> Sure Arthur is messianic, but isn't that a fundamental requirement to do AGI research? Sure, Arthur oversells what he has, but let someone here who is NOT guilty of overselling cast the first stone.>>>> Arthur seems to be lacking two important things, though given this invitation he might be able to fill them in:>> 1. A ~1 sentence statement using conventional computer science terms classifying his methodology, e.g. "A self-modifying list-based world-model having a chat-like NL interface.">> A miniature but expandable AI Mind coded in Forth and Perl and JavaScript> and able to think and reason with concepts in English or German or Russian.

The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of the field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in short descriptions.

That it is coded in particular languages is implr mentation detail that is out of place in a short description.

Nevertheless, AI coders need to be informed that they may already be proficientin the Perl, JavaScript or Forth language for which non-neophyte AI software isreadily available for studying and for tweaking. If the code in Perl is hard tounderstand, it can be examined in JavaScript or in Forth.

That it manipulates concepts in certain languages might be interesting, especially if there is something special about these particular languages, like SVO.

God only knows what the Russians may secretly be doing with the twoMentifex AI Russian-thinking programs.

>>>>> 2. Identification of a best-fit preferred embodiment real-world application, e.g.[...]>> Robotics -- using the MindForth version of the Mentifex AI

Robotics is an overbroad term. Perhaps you are referring to motion control, or understanding NL commands, or ??

Forth is historically a robotics language.Having the AI Mind available in Forth for robots means several things.Chief among them is the opportunity to translate pre-existing controlsoftware into Forth and to superimpose the AI Forthmind with its

LOTS of people claim this, including my own DrEliza.com. I claim problem solving, while others like WolframAlpha claim computational question answering, etc. What part of this vast universe do you claim that your approach can not only do, but do better than other competing approaches?

Chiefly I claim that my three AI Minds show concept-based AI based on brain-theory.

This appears to be extraneous, as I presume it could be ported to other platforms.

> Teaching of AI principles and coding -- using the JavaScript AI Mind.

This sounds like a potential first market.

Steve

Thanks again. In other news, this response from me was delayed while Ifleshed out the documentation webpages above for Volition and Motorium.

http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- as of today 2018-03-06 now hasarguably the most informative of all my ASCII mind-diagrams, since itshows the interplay of the sensorium, abstract conceptual memory,and concrete motor activation memory.

> Arthur,>> On 12:52PM, Tue, Mar 6, 2018 A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com> wrote:> >> >> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Steve Richfield <> steve.richfield@gmail.com> wrote:> >>> >> Alan, Arthur, et al,> >>> >> While artfully dodging what AGI might ultimately turn out to be, it is> clear that Arthur has running code that appears to be able to do SOMETHING> that is potentially useful, which is more than most participants here can> claim.> >>> >> Sure Arthur is messianic, but isn't that a fundamental requirement to> do AGI research? Sure, Arthur oversells what he has, but let someone here> who is NOT guilty of overselling cast the first stone.> >>> >> Arthur seems to be lacking two important things, though given this> invitation he might be able to fill them in:> >> 1. A ~1 sentence statement using conventional computer science terms> classifying his methodology, e.g. "A self-modifying list-based world-model> having a chat-like NL interface."> >> > A miniature but expandable AI Mind coded in Forth and Perl and> JavaScript> > and able to think and reason with concepts in English or German or> Russian.>> The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of the> field of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in short> descriptions.>> That it is coded in particular languages is implr mentation detail that is> out of place in a short description.>Nevertheless, AI coders need to be informed that they may already beproficientin the Perl, JavaScript or Forth language for which non-neophyte AIsoftware isreadily available for studying and for tweaking. If the code in Perl ishard tounderstand, it can be examined in JavaScript or in Forth.

> That it manipulates concepts in certain languages might be interesting,> especially if there is something special about these particular languages,> like SVO.>God only knows what the Russians may secretly be doing with the twoMentifex AI Russian-thinking programs.

> >> >>> >> 2. Identification of a best-fit preferred embodiment real-world> application, e.g.[...]> >> > Robotics -- using the MindForth version of the Mentifex AI>> Robotics is an overbroad term. Perhaps you are referring to motion> control, or understanding NL commands, or ??>Forth is historically a robotics language.Having the AI Mind available in Forth for robots means several things.Chief among them is the opportunity to translate pre-existing controlsoftware into Forth and to superimpose the AI Forthmind with its

> ;> > Webserver AI-in-residence>> LOTS of people claim this, including my own DrEliza.com. I claim problem> solving, while others like WolframAlpha claim computational question> answering, etc. What part of this vast universe do you claim that your> approach can not only do, but do better than other competing approaches?>Chiefly I claim that my three AI Minds show concept-based AI based onbrain-theory.

> > -- using the ghost.pl AI Mind in Strawberry Perl5;>> This appears to be extraneous, as I presume it could be ported to other> platforms.>> > Teaching of AI principles and coding -- using the JavaScript AI Mind.>> This sounds like a potential first market.>> Steve> Thanks again. In other news, this response from me was delayed while Ifleshed out the documentation webpages above for Volition and Motorium.

http://ai.neocities.org/Voliton.html -- as of today 2018-03-06 now hasarguably the most informative of all my ASCII mind-diagrams, since itshows the interplay of the sensorium, abstract conceptual memory,and concrete motor activation memory.

On 12:52PM, Tue, Mar 6, 2018 A.T. Murray <mentificium@gmail.com> wrote:>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Steve Richfield <steve.richfield@gmail.com>wrote:>>>> Alan, Arthur, et al,>>>> While artfully dodging what AGI might ultimately turn out to be, it isclear that Arthur has running code that appears to be able to do SOMETHINGthat is potentially useful, which is more than most participants here canclaim.>>>> Sure Arthur is messianic, but isn't that a fundamental requirement to doAGI research? Sure, Arthur oversells what he has, but let someone here whois NOT guilty of overselling cast the first stone.>>>> Arthur seems to be lacking two important things, though given thisinvitation he might be able to fill them in:>> 1. A ~1 sentence statement using conventional computer science termsclassifying his methodology, e.g. "A self-modifying list-based world-modelhaving a chat-like NL interface.">> A miniature but expandable AI Mind coded in Forth and Perl and JavaScript> and able to think and reason with concepts in English or German orRussian.

The terms Miniature, Mind, Think, Reason, and Concepts are outside of thefield of Computer Science, and hence should be avoided in shortdescriptions.

That it is coded in particular languages is implr mentation detail that isout of place in a short description.

That it manipulates concepts in certain languages might be interesting,especially if there is something special about these particular languages,like SVO.>>>>> 2. Identification of a best-fit preferred embodiment real-worldapplication, e.g.[...]>> Robotics -- using the MindForth version of the Mentifex AI

Robotics is an overbroad term. Perhaps you are referring to motion control,or understanding NL commands, or ??;> Webserver AI-in-residence

LOTS of people claim this, including my own DrEliza.com. I claim problemsolving, while others like WolframAlpha claim computational questionanswering, etc. What part of this vast universe do you claim that yourapproach can not only do, but do better than other competing approaches?

> -- using the ghost.pl AI Mind in Strawberry Perl5;

This appears to be extraneous, as I presume it could be ported to otherplatforms.

> Teaching of AI principles and coding -- using the JavaScript AI Mind.

> Alan, Arthur, et al,>> While artfully dodging what AGI might ultimately turn out to be, it is> clear that Arthur has running code that appears to be able to do SOMETHING> that is potentially useful, which is more than most participants here can> claim.>> Sure Arthur is messianic, but isn't that a fundamental requirement to do> AGI research? Sure, Arthur oversells what he has, but let someone here who> is NOT guilty of overselling cast the first stone.>> Arthur seems to be lacking two important things, though given this> invitation he might be able to fill them in:> 1. A ~1 sentence statement using conventional computer science terms> classifying his methodology, e.g. "A self-modifying list-based world-model> having a chat-like NL interface.">A miniature but expandable AI Mind coded in Forth and Perl and JavaScriptand able to think and reason with concepts in English or German or Russian.

> 2. Identification of a best-fit preferred embodiment real-world> application, e.g.[...]>Robotics -- using the MindForth version of the Mentifex AI;Webserver AI-in-residence -- using the ghost.pl AI Mind in StrawberryPerl5;Teaching of AI principles and coding -- using the JavaScript AI Mind.

While artfully dodging what AGI might ultimately turn out to be, it isclear that Arthur has running code that appears to be able to do SOMETHINGthat is potentially useful, which is more than most participants here canclaim.

Sure Arthur is messianic, but isn't that a fundamental requirement to doAGI research? Sure, Arthur oversells what he has, but let someone here whois NOT guilty of overselling cast the first stone.

Arthur seems to be lacking two important things, though given thisinvitation he might be able to fill them in:1. A ~1 sentence statement using conventional computer science termsclassifying his methodology, e.g. "A self-modifying list-based world-modelhaving a chat-like NL interface."2. Identification of a best-fit preferred embodiment real-worldapplication, e.g. "battlefield resource management".

With these two things, people could easily decide whether or not they areinterested, and Arthur would stop attracting needless flack.

If Arthur would work on a commercial application for what he now has, Ithink he could find success.

> Don't pay attention to him, he's a world famous crackpot who's been> ranting about his crap for 30 years. =\>> He was almost OK for a while a few years ago, but he's clearly off his> meds again and should be ignored, I think the goertzel is too lenient in> letting him stay on the list. =\>>> David Whitten wrote:> > Arthur,> > where might someone from the general public interact with your> > software similarly to chatbot.com <http://chatbot.com&#x3E; ?> >> > I have seen your software mentioned for years.> >> > David Whitten> > 713-870-3834> >> > [Powered by Listbox] <http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;> >>>> --> Please report bounces from this address to atg@numentics.com>> Powers are not rights.>>>> -------------------------------------------> AGI> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> Modify Your Subscription:> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&#x26;> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com>

> Arthur,> where might someone from the general public interact with your software> similarly to chatbot.com ?>> I have seen your software mentioned for years.>> David Whitten>> David,

Thank you for asking about my AI software (three AI Minds).I have gone off-line for a while to compose this answer.

http://www.chatbots.org/ai_zone/viewthread/240/ -- is where Iused to write about my software until they engaged in censorship.I will tolerate ad hominem attacks and other abuse but not censorship.Ben Goertzel and AGI-list moderator John Rose are anti-censorship,so what I have to fear here is only the risk of boring everybody.

I posted "Towards Consciousness" on Friday with no response on Saturday.Now that you, David, have responded (and also Rob from Nanograte) Iwould like to make a rather thorough response first to you beforeI even read what Rob or anyone else wrote in their message.

Since I did not immediately recognize the vaguely familiar name"David Whitten", I did a Google search on [Mentifex "David Whitten"]to see if there was any record of our interaction in the past --with a single, rather shocking result from two decades ago:

After that vote was taken with me on the losing side, Usenet comp.ai fellintodesuetude and it ceased to be a lively discussion group like we have here.Fourteen years earlier there had been a call for moderation after myfirst-ever

in "net.ai" which morphed into the "comp.ai" Usenet newsgroup.Co-discussant Paul Benjamin on 1985-01-31 then wrote and I quote:

> Unfortunately, to insure the unimpeded flow of ideas, we> must put up with uninformed (perhaps facetious?) ideas> like the "Mentifex Tutorial". The hard test of any idea> in AI is to produce a working program which embodies that> idea. It would be extremely interesting to see a working> model of the concepts in the "Mentifex Tutorial".

We could help by building a computational model of our consciousness, of our many brains - as one - representing human DNA. Not the consciousness of participation perhaps, but rather in singlularity of architecture. The traces are there. We could restep them. Collaboration is key.

Two important goals for the AI Mind in JavaScript are thealready demonstrated Natural Language Understanding (NLU) andthe not-yet-proven Artificial Consciousness. Before we work explicitlyon consciousness, we remove the clutter of some obsolete tutorial display code from the MainLoop and elsewhere, so that the program as a whole may be easier to understand and work with.

We have a chance here to demonstrate an entity aware of itself and ofsome other entity such as a human user conversing with the AI. If westart claiming that our JSAI has consciousness, Netizens will test the AIin various ways, such as asking it a lot of questions. Typical questionsto test consciousness would be "who are you" and "who am i".The interrogative pronoun "who" sets the qucon flag to a positive valueof one so that the SpreadAct module may activate the necessary conceptsfor a proper response. We need a way to make the AI concentrate on thesubject of any who-query, so that the AI will give evidence of consciousnesssimply by answering the question.

When we enter "god is person" and then we ask, "who is god", the AI answers"GOD AM A PERSON" -- which sounds wrong but which only requires an improvement in finding the correct form "IS" for the verb "BE".

> Moving the JavaScript AI towards Artificial Consciousness>> Two important goals for the AI Mind in JavaScript are the> already demonstrated Natural Language Understanding (NLU) and> the not-yet-proven Artificial Consciousness. Before we work explicitly> on consciousness, we remove the clutter of some obsolete tutorial display> code from the MainLoop and elsewhere, so that the program as a whole may be> easier to understand and work with.>> We have a chance here to demonstrate an entity aware of itself and of> some other entity such as a human user conversing with the AI. If we> start claiming that our JSAI has consciousness, Netizens will test the AI> in various ways, such as asking it a lot of questions. Typical questions> to test consciousness would be "who are you" and "who am i".> The interrogative pronoun "who" sets the qucon flag to a positive value> of one so that the SpreadAct module may activate the necessary concepts> for a proper response. We need a way to make the AI concentrate on the> subject of any who-query, so that the AI will give evidence of> consciousness> simply by answering the question.>> When we enter "god is person" and then we ask, "who is god", the AI> answers> "GOD AM A PERSON" -- which sounds wrong but which only requires an> improvement in finding the correct form "IS" for the verb "BE".>> -Arthur> --> http://ai.neocities.org/MsIeAi.html> http://cyborg.blogspot.com/2018/03/jmpj0302.html> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.consciousness/6FQ9PXANIzo/WbZWfRGoAwAJ> http://medium.com/p/4241750b5224> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now&#x3E; |> Modify> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&&#x3E;> Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com&#x3E;>

Two important goals for the AI Mind in JavaScript are thealready demonstrated Natural Language Understanding (NLU) andthe not-yet-proven Artificial Consciousness. Before we work explicitlyon consciousness, we remove the clutter of some obsolete tutorial displaycode from the MainLoop and elsewhere, so that the program as a whole may beeasier to understand and work with.

We have a chance here to demonstrate an entity aware of itself and ofsome other entity such as a human user conversing with the AI. If westart claiming that our JSAI has consciousness, Netizens will test the AIin various ways, such as asking it a lot of questions. Typical questionsto test consciousness would be "who are you" and "who am i".The interrogative pronoun "who" sets the qucon flag to a positive valueof one so that the SpreadAct module may activate the necessary conceptsfor a proper response. We need a way to make the AI concentrate on thesubject of any who-query, so that the AI will give evidence ofconsciousnesssimply by answering the question.

When we enter "god is person" and then we ask, "who is god", the AI answers"GOD AM A PERSON" -- which sounds wrong but which only requires animprovement in finding the correct form "IS" for the verb "BE".