I remember watching Cam in college and thinking he literally was like a man among boys. I was extremely interested in how long it would take him to adjust to the NFL. I would not be surprised if he ends up a Hall-of-Famer, assuming he continues to progress and take the game and his personal life seriously.

That said, go Seahawks and screw the Panthers if/when they cross them again.

IAmRight:skrame: I hate to jump into any argument involving Seahawks fans, especially you and Shame Us, but why are you repeatedly saying "every year" for Wilson? Are you including college in your rankings? If not, hasn't Wilson had just one year?

Hey, I'm including this year. Wilson has 22 TDs; Newton's never thrown 22 TD passes in a season. Similarly, Newton already has 11 INTs, more than Wilson's 10 from last year.

Wilson is currently on pace for 29 TDs and 8 picks, based on the full season so far, but he's seems to be a better player late in the season. 30 is certainly in reach plus I think 2 or 3 rushing TDs. He does more with less opportunity.

IAmRight:/you'll notice that as Newton throws fewer passes and runs less, the Panthers win more

100% agree

IAmRight://the Panthers have three good RBs that they weren't even using because it all had to be about Newton early on

Meh. Stewart hasn't been the same since his injuries. I wish they would have traded one of them a few years ago, but Williams is 30 now. Tolbert is a beast for short yards and is the best pass catcher, but has no speed.

I agree on the second part. Riverboat Ron and Shula had to change their game plan, I'm glad they did.

Shame Us:ink about who the Hawks would be without Wilson or who the Saints would be without Brees, it makes sense to break the bank a bit.

Well, if the Saints current problem is their offensive line ... they lost their best-in-the-league line the year Brees got his big contract because they couldn't afford to resign some of the line. It's one of the reasons Nicks had to leave.

Hey In-di-a-NAAAA-polis! I hear you want a running back and if you're willing to give up a first rounder for a guy that struggles to average 3 yards/carry, what will you offer someone who will average 3.5-4 yards/carry?

FuManchu7:Well, if the Saints current problem is their offensive line ... they lost their best-in-the-league line the year Brees got his big contract because they couldn't afford to resign some of the line.

Good news! We've already played most of this year without our starting offensive line! So we know we can get by without them.

IAmRight:FuManchu7: Well, if the Saints current problem is their offensive line ... they lost their best-in-the-league line the year Brees got his big contract because they couldn't afford to resign some of the line.

Good news! We've already played most of this year without our starting offensive line! So we know we can get by without them.

/though obviously I prefer to keep them

I think we keep Okung and Unger. Probably Carpenter and *shudder for now* Sweezy. Sweezy and Carp may not start depending on how things develop, though.

Shame Us:I think we keep Okung and Unger. Probably Carpenter and *shudder for now* Sweezy. Sweezy and Carp may not start depending on how things develop, though.

Yeah, I'm obviously talking about the guys that are actually good. Sweezy was playing the whole year, so when I say the line was out for the whole year, I'm basically saying that he's not a significant part of the line. That said, all other things being equal, I think you have to keep the white guy named Sweezy as long as you possibly can.

IAmRight:JusticeandIndependence: I wish they would have traded one of them a few years ago, but Williams is 30 now.

Hey In-di-a-NAAAA-polis! I hear you want a running back and if you're willing to give up a first rounder for a guy that struggles to average 3 yards/carry, what will you offer someone who will average 3.5-4 yards/carry?

FuManchu7:IAmRight: FuManchu7: The cap money has to come from somewhere.

Well, the next guys (Sherman, Thomas) are getting paid from what they're not going to be giving Rice/Miller next year. Then, Wilson's really the only other essential guy. If Harvin gets hurt again, they can release him and have plenty of space (which is why he's making a ton this year). Otherwise they'll have to continue to get other guys on the cheap. but really, Sherman, Thomas, and Wilson are the only guys that aren't replaceable.

/though I don't want to have to replace a lot of them//pretty sure we're going to lose Tate after this year

It sounds doable, but it's a problem the Saints currently have (and the Ravens are experiencing). You tie up 1/3 of your cap in one player. It's hard getting good value out of the other 52 roster spots. The Saints were milking Graham's rookie contract, but will probably have to franchise him because they don't have the room for what he will expect.

The Ravens' cap hit for Flacco is $6.8m this year. That's less than his $8m last year.

In his first 3 years (before a big jump that will require a renegotiation) he's still a cap number small than Peyton is this year.

The Raven's big issue is a horrendous offensive line. The Center is atrocious - he graded out as 34 out of 34 starting centers at one point in the season. He's probably about there now. The left guard is currently the guy that lost the battle for center...

I would think the best Manning would be the one that can make the playoffs every year.

Best Manning has two rings; last time I checked Peyton's only got one to his name.

Yes, the only measurement to a good QB is a ring.

Let's see.

Peyton is 2nd all time in pass yards, 2nd all time in pass completions, 2nd in all time touchdowns thrown, fastest ever to 50,000 yards, fastest ever to 60,000 yards, fastest to 4,000 completions, fastest to 400 passing touchdowns, 4x MVP, most seasons with at least 4,000 passing yards.....the list goes on and on and on.

The guy is going to be the greatest statistical passer the league has ever seen.

Sorry if he doesn't have two+ rings to meet your guidelines.

As I told IAmRight: Ask Dan Marino if he wouldn't have given up part of those records to get one SB ring.

If you're going for the Chamberlain/Russell model, here's a hint for you: don't argue in favor of Chamberlain.

Treygreen13:Sorry guys, no trivia this week. I spent the day preparing for my court case. Ended up challenging and winning against a red light camera ticket.[i291.photobucket.com image 850x937]Go fark yourself, American Traffic Solutions. Fark yourself right in the ear. I told you that you wouldn't get a dime from me and I was right.

UNC_Samurai:Treygreen13: Sorry guys, no trivia this week. I spent the day preparing for my court case. Ended up challenging and winning against a red light camera ticket.[i291.photobucket.com image 850x937]Go fark yourself, American Traffic Solutions. Fark yourself right in the ear. I told you that you wouldn't get a dime from me and I was right.

I just realized that maybe NY fans think Eli's great because they're comparing him to Mark Sanchez, Greg McElroy, and Geno Smith. I mean, if all you have to do is be better than the Jets' QB, everyone's great!

Di Atribe:UNC_Samurai: Treygreen13: Sorry guys, no trivia this week. I spent the day preparing for my court case. Ended up challenging and winning against a red light camera ticket.[i291.photobucket.com image 850x937]Go fark yourself, American Traffic Solutions. Fark yourself right in the ear. I told you that you wouldn't get a dime from me and I was right.

JusticeandIndependence:IAmRight: Cam Newton has never thrown for as many TDs as Russell Wilson has in his worst year. Russell Wilson has never thrown as many INTs as Cam Newton in Newton's best year. There are NO measures (except maybe passing yards, which would just be silly) by which Newton is better than Wilson.

You make it sound like they've been playing for years...

They have 5 years total combined experience in the NFL. Give it a few years to see who is top notch. Wilson has the nod for now, but so did this guy early on....

...I still contend he was playing just as badly as Colt McCoy, but remains with the Rams due to his huge contract (which is not nearly as much of an issue after the new CBA).

/You watch. My bet is that the Rams will be in the Johnny Manziel sweepstakes.

UNC_Samurai:Di Atribe: UNC_Samurai: Treygreen13: Sorry guys, no trivia this week. I spent the day preparing for my court case. Ended up challenging and winning against a red light camera ticket.[i291.photobucket.com image 850x937]Go fark yourself, American Traffic Solutions. Fark yourself right in the ear. I told you that you wouldn't get a dime from me and I was right.

Di Atribe:IAmRight: Smelly McUgly: How? Unless you are a NFCW fan, our franchise has only become REALLY relevant this last couple of years.

Well, her boy Romo's greatest and original failure occurred in Seattle and people always bring it up when discussing his "chokiness," though most who bring it up are not Seahawks fans.

That is incorrect. Seahawks fans (although not you & Shame Us so much) have been pretty consistent at being awful about it. Seven years ago & they still can't let it go. It's pathetic.

I was at that game. I yelled loudly just as the ball was snapped, distracting Romo, I believe. But even though I played a key role, I don't talk about it much. The Hawks were beaten until that lucky break.

Cam is like a mixture of all these read-option quarterbacks and Joe Flacco-esque big arm mentality

Rwa2play:IAmRight: Rwa2play: As I told IAmRight: Ask Dan Marino if he wouldn't have given up part of those records to get one SB ring.

Rings still don't make you a great player. Eli is a vastly inferior QB to his brother.

Great player doesn't necessarily make you a champion. Because if that were the case then people would be putting the Malone's of the world alongside Jordan or the Bonds' of the world alongside Jeter.

great team players win championships... as great as guys like Peyton or Brady are, the times they won championships was when they disappeared into the team come playoff/championship time, it's why all these regular season accolades for one guy mean nothing come january/february