Hanako Games

Future version - route locking?

Future version - route locking?

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:30 pm

by hanako

Some people have been disappointed with the lack of a 'true' route, or felt that other routes were a letdown after completing Callum's route first. And I've been a little frustrated watching some LPers go for Callum's route first and thus lacking a good grounding in certain character issues.

Therefore, I'm asking primarily for opinions from people who have played the game (although those who haven't can still vote if they want).

Should Callum's route be locked on first playthrough?

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:10 pm

by FantasyFan

Speaking as someone who played Callum's route first (way back in alpha testing), I say no to locking. I prefer complete freedom to choose my options in my first playthrough of a visual novel and I like discovering plot elements when I play again. If a VN has a "true" ending like in Date Warp, then I can understand locking, but otherwise, no.

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:31 pm

by Shogeton

I did the Callum route first, and I don't feel the experienced lessened by it. The Oscar Route also offers some extra information about the assassin, and where that stuff all comes from. So your two main male love interests both give a separate part of the puzzle, and each handles the situation in a different way. One of them sneaky and subtle, the other one is a public spectacle. The characters are all interesting enough, and the game short enough, that even after that, I wanted to play again, to see the other perspectives. Route locking would cause more frustration for less gain. In a game as long as Fate/Stay Night for example, it's more understandable, because that game is a lot longer.

Actually, I think the Callum route might be one of the better ones to have it happen first. The reveal of Cassidy and Caspian is given the most attention there. The emotional impact of the realization is shown there. After that game, a palyer might be 'I wonder how Oscar/Nazagi would react to that. So I definitely feel that a Callum first order is a perfectly fine way to take in the story.

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:41 am

by micchan

Guess I'm the minority, but I am definitely in favor of locking. At the very least until you played one other route, no matter which ones. Without all the foreshadowing and exploration of Cassidy's character, Callum route just comes out melodramatic, and sort of flings the gender issues in the player face, without them being prepared for it. I've heard from several people they wish they saved Callum for last, because the impact of the route was lost to them without all the discussion and exploration the other routes offered.

I don't support route locking in normal dating games, but this is not the usual "get a date before Christmas" game. It's about the characters, and it benefits from the player having more time to ponder and analyze those characters.

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:59 pm

by Gimmicky Gary

I'm surprised Nazagi is so deep in the proposed order. I'd almost say it should be one of the first ones, as it introduces a lot of key ideas (Cassidy's identity, the link to Doloros) but since Nazagi has to pretend he knows everything nothing gets confirmed, and very little is fully explained. Then in other routes, where people are on better terms with the royal family, more gets explained and confirmed as fact.

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:55 pm

by hanako

My reasoning: Oscar is best to go first, in order to solidify Cassidy's character in the player's mind, but also to explain the Pherod/Sophia/Marie plot so that you're not distracted by that in later routes. Gaston's route has the best introduction to Cassidy but leaves Dolores totally untouched. Nazagi starts to answer the 'how' questions and suspects several things but can't prove them, and then Callum's route ties it all up and answers the 'why' questions.

There is currently a strong possibility of a new update (more details in Secrets in the coming weeks) and I'm currently leaning towards locking 'Talk to Callum' at the river until you have completed SOME other path. That will direct players to Oscar first without absolutely forcing it.

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:39 am

by Troyen

I don't like locking in games. I enjoyed the fact that on my first play-through I could make decisions based purely on what I felt was the best decision at the time and let the story consequences unfold (I ended up on Nazagi first because he seemed the most shady and the most capable, but was pleasantly surprised with the direction the story took instead).

Most games that do lock fall back on the cheap "you have to win some character you don't care about first before you can go after the character you really were playing for on your second attempt" to extend the game. It also sets up the false expectation that the locked route is the "true" ending (otherwise it wouldn't be hidden). I'd rather the player decides what order to view the storylines and decide whether or not they're interested enough in a character to try and go that route.

Perhaps in this case, you could have made it harder to get into Callum's route without completely locking it out if you wanted to discourage people from casually falling into it first, but if someone is really determined to go after him on their first try, why not? If they like the story, they'll still try some other characters.

(For the record, I thought Callum's route was a letdown and I did save him for last. Nazagi/Oscar were much more fun for me. I also liked that I could decide the "true" ending I wanted - Oscar's.)

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 10:05 pm

by ark99k

I think that Callum's ending should be locked until either you complete every person's ending, or at least until you finish Nazgi because, let's be honest, he was the build-up route. He explains the other endings and then presents multiple endings. Personally, I did Oscar's first and Gaston's route last. I kind of felt disappointed due to the lack of secrets and twists. Knowing everything already kind of ruined things for me with Gaston. Nazgi's ending came before Callum's and between the two of them, EVERYTHING made sense! You shouldn't make people play Oscar before Callum, but I do think that you should go down his path first because I liked Callum so much more after Oscar's path. So yeah, I think that you should lock Callum's ending until you play Nagzi's.

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 2:01 am

by nightshadengale

Maybe you could have a quick "This is the recommended route order for optimal plot progression" pop-up when someone starts a new game if they haven't unlocked at least one ending for all the main routes yet? I know I was really glad that I saw the suggested route order on the forums before playing the game, because I did feel like doing them in that order enhanced the experience--but forcing that order seems excessive, and locking Callum until one other route is completed still doesn't give any indication of the recommended order for the others.

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:13 pm

by Oki

hanako wrote:Some people have been disappointed with the lack of a 'true' route, or felt that other routes were a letdown after completing Callum's route first. And I've been a little frustrated watching some LPers go for Callum's route first and thus lacking a good grounding in certain character issues.

Therefore, I'm asking primarily for opinions from people who have played the game (although those who haven't can still vote if they want).

Should Callum's route be locked on first playthrough?

Lock this mother f down. lock him like the endings of Fate Stay Night. MAKE HIM THE HEAVEN'S FEEL ENDING. (the final ending only unlocked when you play the others) Force your players to do him last and only then will they understand the true glory! (I enjoyed the game far more going for Nazagi first kekeke)

Let me reiterate. In Fate Stay Night you have an obvious route that is available first, it's called the Fate route. In it you romance the obvious choice, Saber, and learn all about her and the world associated with her. As soon as that is done? You unlock unlimited blade works, which tells you all about the world of the girl who likes you and a secret part of your own history. Finally, when that is done, you unlock heaven's feel and learn every possible aspect left: the truth of the shy girl, the absolute dark truth of the Holy Grail, you learn everything.

I propose this, make Oscar and Gaston (lol) the available routes. People feel they have choice, you can learn more about the world. Then, once at least one of those is beaten, you unlock Nazagi's route. Finally, you unlock Dolores and Callum's route. This way you set people to a degree of freedom, but to get the whole experience they have to go in a way. As much as I love choice by not doing this you are not helping your players, charts or recommendations are easily ignored. A big flashy " ROUTE UNLOCKED" once the game is over is far more impressive. This way your whole story is absolutely conveyed, your players have a lot of playing to do, and the money feels more well spent.

It worked for Fate (and look at how explosive that is) and it's worked for many others as well (Just speaking, Otome games in general, Second Reproduction, Girlish love revolution).

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:18 pm

by silentheartsong

Maybe you could do what 999 does with the True route: lock Callum's route until another route/routes is/are completed, and if the player tries to do the route too early, they get a unique bad ending.

Re: Future version - route locking?

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:49 am

by PanneKnight

I think locking Callum's route until after Oscar's route should be enough. That way, people can still have some degree of freedom, but they'll at least know who Cassidy is, so the route won't be ruined. Maybe make the best ending impossible to get without all the routes, but a forced bad ending probably wouldn't work very well.