[...] The investigating district attorney in the case later said, "It was obvious they were angry with the company about not being invited to some press conference or some big Apple event. We expected to see a certain amount of professionalism-this is like 15-year-old children talking." [...]

I wonder if The Verge will become The New Gizmodo. They weren't given any special treatment in the Mountain Lion press rollout. No keynote-for-one like Gruber got. Could be enough to trigger an anti-Apple snark-fest over there.

OK. Yeah. Maybe that was a little harsh. The Verge crew have apparently already figured out how to use spellcheckers, and may have actually read Strunk & White's "The Elements of Style." Two things that are apparently beyond the grasp of the Gizmodo kiddies.

. . . there is only one thing that matters here, whether the story is close to the truth or far from it.

People here are not so much questioning the "truth" of the story's details, they are questioning the unfairness of focusing exclusively on Apple, and the unfairness of ignoring the larger background issues, such as what Apple has aleady been doing.

It's not that. It's that you are assuming Apple is wrong and NYT is right. The best available 3rd party evidence is the Fair Labor association which comes down on Apple's side.

You said "Apple are not the innocent underdogs in dire need of our protection. When Apple messes up, or is doing something badly, they deserve to be called out on it like anyone else," which is absolutely true, but the same applies to the NYT.

I wonder if The Verge will become The New Gizmodo. They weren't given any special treatment in the Mountain Lion press rollout. No keynote-for-one like Gruber got. Could be enough to trigger an anti-Apple snark-fest over there.

OK. Yeah. Maybe that was a little harsh. The Verge crew have apparently already figured out how to use spellcheckers, and may have actually read Strunk & White's "The Elements of Style." Two things that are apparently beyond the grasp of the Gizmodo kiddies.

The Verge is still new so I think that explains it. They are also balanced for a tech news site. I'm a big fan of their page layouts and coding. It's attractive and loads quickly compared to other sites.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

It was hardly a hit piece. Judging by what Apple publicised shortly before the story hit, leaked comments immediately afterwards, and additional measures they have since introduced, Apple knows there's a real problem. If the NYT articles does anything to help improve working conditions for some Foxconn employees then it will been well worth the while. I think slightly more important than an invite to a top secret OS X unveiling event.

It seems everyone who dares say anything negative about an Apple product is a known Apple hater. Consumer Reports during the iPhone 4 antenna debacle is a case in point. CR had a whole history of highly recommending Apple products up to that point. But the moment they dissed the sacred iPhone 4, they were denounced as well known Apple haters by the glorious followers.

I love Apple products. I'm surrounded by them in my home. But I'll never understand why there are so many ardent fanatics who get butthurt every time someone dares publish something negative about the company. Apple are not the innocent underdogs in dire need of our protection. When Apple messes up, or is doing something badly, they deserve to be called out on it like anyone else.

Agree with you 100%.
Remember thou, that a lot of the frothing Apple zealots on this site are investors. A negative light on Apple is a negative light on them and their god.

To you and me and other sane people, Apple devices are technology gadgets and computing devices - to them, they are idols to be worshiped and CEO's are their clergy. Their rewards are monies and riches that they did nothing to earn.
These sick psychophants dont care about child exploitation or an inhabitable planet - not as long as their false god continues to reward them.

Apple's attempt to control the message through the medium will not be successful. Freedom has always found a way to weave through tyrany much more potent then a psudo american company like Apple.

People here are not so much questioning the "truth" of the story's details, they are questioning the unfairness of focusing exclusively on Apple, and the unfairness of ignoring the larger background issues, such as what Apple has aleady been doing.

Why do you refuse to see this distinction?

Because Apple is #1 now. It's natural, not contrived, that they will draw the most attention. Also, what Apple has been doing is pretty common. Nokia has been doing audits for years. Apple is one of the better ones, but it is by no means alone, and frankly none of them are that great.

Sounds like Apple is treating those that print false misleading stories fairly to me. There the ones that are acting like 15 year olds and printing whatever they feel like without any facts to back them up with. Just recently inspectors went through Foxconn's factories and were surprised as to how great the working conditions were.
No violations what so ever. Print what you like, but don't print without some facts to back them up with. New York Times should publish a with drawl story and apologize to Apple. It's easy to assume things, it's harder to gain the facts and apparently NYT wasn't interested in the facts this time.

Seems the New York Times has decided to declare war on Apple. Seems an odd choice, but so be it.

Sigh. .... . I keep harping on this paranoid theory of mine. NYT is a failing paper, possible?
Hedge funds are heavily invested in Apple, true? Maybe NYT got paid by hedge reps to focus the story on Apple?

The timing of all of this just floors me. Apple hits $500 and soars past that, then all of a sudden five big negative Apple stories made out of rehashed news from prior weeks/months/years.
There's even a play out there, The Agony and ecstasy of Steve jobs. The big fat producer of that play is doing the talk show circuit. That show took some longer term planning I'll admit, but it's part of the landscape I'm complaining about. It didn't help when the guy shows up on John Stuart wearing a shirt with dominoes embroidered on it. Wait, that does sound paranoid.

Oh, are we at that time of the month when options expire? Oh my goodness, here's Apples CEO TALKING to Goldman Sachs and the share price is going UP we can't have that! Call CNN !!!!!

Why are w talking about NYT and CNN and Apple haters??? Got nothin to do with much.
I submit this is the hedge funds forcing their way yet again. The media are such lapdogs it don't take much to get them all to run with something then you can get a chain reaction going.

It takes a STRONG stomach to stay with this stock. Some of you new stockholders need to get a grip out there. The positive stories will come out when Apple does another cool thing, and when the hedge funds want that kind of story pushed to suit their particular investments at the time.
I'm not gonna claim everything is due to the hedge funds re Apple, but it's looking mighty suspicious. Just watch CNBC stock channel for a couple weeks and you'll start to see this amazing timing. Hell, they even TELL you when the plug is about to get pulled and to go take your profits now, buy back in at X price.

What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto

Because Apple is #1 now. It's natural, not contrived, that they will draw the most attention. Also, what Apple has been doing is pretty common. Nokia has been doing audits for years. Apple is one of the better ones, but it is by no means alone, and frankly none of them are that great.

You're right. It's natural that number one will attract the most attention from the feeble-minded rabble. People of generous spirit and intellect will look at the whole picture and focus on the unfairness of uneven economic development around the world.

What's going on in this period in history is that China is developing, while the post-industrial areas are looking for their next economic role. You are not helping by prattling about what we already know is unfair.

Remember thou, that a lot of the frothing Apple zealots on this site are investors. A negative light on Apple is a negative light on them and their god.

To you and me and other sane people, Apple devices are technology gadgets and computing devices - to them, they are idols to be worshiped and CEO's are their clergy. Their rewards are monies and riches that they did nothing to earn.
These sick psychophants dont care about child exploitation or an inhabitable planet - not as long as their false god continues to reward them.

Zuh?

Wait, so the devices are idols, and who's the god, "Apple" (the company)? So that would make Apple stores, what, temples? Well, that explains the child sacrifices at the mall. Oh, and that means the new Apple 'spaceship' campus would be the mothership, which explains why the Apple god isn't worried about an inhabitable planet. The mothership will take the iPod-people to the iHomeworld. And ... the monies (and the riches too) only go to the shareholders? So you're only a zealot if you own stock? Does that mean you can only be a, what, wild-eyed fanatic if you don't own stock? What if I get an iTunes gift card for my birthday? That's 'riches' of a sort (or monies at the least) - does that make me a zealot, or a fanatic? Maybe just an acolyte?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain

Apple's attempt to control the message through the medium will not be successful. Freedom has always found a way to weave through tyrany much more potent then a psudo american company like Apple.

Yeah man, Apple stole my freedom! Down with the tyrannical iMan! They're brainwashing me through my iPhone with their iRays.

I've always said there's no better way to make a logical point than with an incoherent rant.

lol is that so? Do you know something that one of the largest papers in this country doesn't?

The NYT loves Apple and their products. So there's zero incentive for them to publish anything inflammatory unless it's true.

Amazing how The Cult of Apple responds to negative things about Their Perfect Company,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

Seems fair to me.

Yellow journalism is yellow journalism whether it's practiced by a bunch of high school kids or the old farts on the New York Times. They knew they were publishing half-truths and untruths. Que sera sera as Doris Day would say.

If Apple continued to treat them like other news sources it would send the wrong message. If only other companies, government agencies and so on would do the same then we wouldn't be subjected to so much crap and lies disguised as entertainment and "news."

And their coverage of the BP spill in the Gulf was pathetic. There were photos in most blogs for weeks before the Times finally started publishing them.

So I come here not to praise the Times. I am not a subscriber and won't be any time soon.

But I am also deeply unhappy about the path the computer industry has taken. It's not just working conditions, it's also that China is largely coal powered and the contractor companies dump toxic waste, etc.

I'd rather pay more for my gear if that's what it takes to obtain not only quality but an end-to-end supply, sales, and recycling product cycle that is not an insult to nature or people.

Apple is failing here just like all the others. But I care more about Apple because I am an Apple customer, and because I already knew the others were mediocre companies.

What is frustrating is that I cannot vote with my feet. The whole industry is essentially the same, and some of it is considerably worse. All I can do is buy the minimum I need and make it last as long as possible, but I still feel like an enabler of these practices.

To paraphrase Cook, I find it offensive that the tech industry, Apple included, has fostered working conditions worthy of mid 19th-century England.

My opinion is that Apple came back from near death to face a tech environment that was so competitive that they had not much choice but to scale up in the far east like all the others, just to get the good stuff made at all.

Apple is at an inflection point, I'm sure they know it. They are pretty good about responding to people's concerns, in fact they are extraordinary at it. They are as proactive as they can be and still be human.

I don't pretend to know when or how, but I feel that Apple is going to do all in their power to stay in business while a piece at a time work towards an end to end supply that is not an insult to nature or people. It will take some time though. Peace.

What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto

. . . The NYT loves Apple and their products. So there's zero incentive for them to publish anything inflammatory unless it's true.

Amazing how The Cult of Apple responds to negative things about Their Perfect Company,

Still don't get it?

One more time. If they're going to do this story, which may be true and not made up, they are not being fair if they single out Apple from the whole industry, and if they do not also single out Apple's unusual efforts to monitor their suppliers.

It's sorta' like a petting zoo. They come to the fence and bleat pathetically, you feed them a handful of kibble then pat their heads. You feel bad for them being all penned in, but eventually you get bored and wander away anyhow.

It's sorta' like a petting zoo. They come to the fence and bleat pathetically, you feed them a handful of kibble then pat their heads. You feel bad for them being all penned in, but eventually you get bored and wander away anyhow.

Is it wrong to want to free the animals, or take them out for a walk just so they will cheer up for a little while?

I had a pet troll once. I thought I'd be nice and I set him free in the woods. I found him a few days later - damned chipmunks ate him alive. Poor troll.

Moral of the story: Trolls are too dumb to be left out on their own. It's better if you just play with them every once in a while to keep them happy.

True story.

BTW, there is the silliest foreign filml on Netflix Streaming. It is called 'Trolls' and is made in Norway. It was full of the most fantastical deadpan rationalizations as to what must be done to keep the Trolls under control. complete with CG Trolls that were hilarious. I could picture a 10 year old absolutely terrified. Still laughing,

What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto

It's such a pity Apple behaves so poorly, their childish corporate behaviour really detracts from what should be more news about their awesome products.

ANd what about NYT. Bashing Apple with articles that imply that Apple is solely responsible for conditions at Foxconn etc. The Times is supposed to be a respected news source that employs journalists that do the proper research and give a full story. Leaving out details like Apple is only one of some 70-75 clients of Foxconn, that the workers get room and board etc in addition to salaries that are well above the mandated minimum wage, that the suicide attempts for workers on non Apple lines is higher than Apple ones and so on, is the kind of stunt pulled by biased bloggers.

And if the Times wants to act like a childish blogger they will get the same treatment from Apple that other childish bloggers get

No, they are not. That's why I picked them. Luxury items are high end MacBook Airs, not to mention Mac Pros.

But I'm in a generous mood. I'll lower the bar to the iPod Touch. They can't afford those either.

The Ferrari worker might not own a Ferrari (a new one), but every Ferrari worker can buy a decent car. That's the analogy. (Actually, it's closer to the idea that a Cadillac worker can buy a Chevy.)

That's just silly. Of course iPads are luxury items. As are iPods and Ferraris. Also, cell phones, microwaves and Legos. None are required for a safe or healthy life. You're [apparently] confusing "luxury" and "expensive". Food and shelter are necessities. iPads are not necessary.

No doubt thoughtless, ignorant people whose use of language gives an altogether distasteful glimpse into their self-serving, deluded minds.

Unless we're talking about the fruit, "Apple" is an abstraction, just like every corporation. Corporations are legal institutions, and have no thoughts, feelings, or values, or any self awareness capable of taking offense. Pretending otherwise may benefit the 5% of Americans who own 95% of the world, and them only in the very short term, but is a gruesome disservice to everyone else. This might seem a pointlessly punctilious distinction, but consider the the result to date of having assigned the corporation - which is nothing but a collection of paperwork - more legal rights than individuals who live, breath, bleed, and die.

As Michael Moore so adroitly demonstrated, if the corporation were an individual, we would have to diagnose it as psychotic and take appropriate steps to prevent it from harming itself and others. As it stands, Mr. Cook and his ilk routinely speak as high priests conveying the word of God, Inc., and the rest of us too often accept this lunacy at face value.

Tim Cook is free to talk about his own values, or those of anyone he believes he represents, and to take responsibility for them. Talking about the "values" of Apple's, on the other hand, is nothing more than a way to escape the latter by refusing to do the former.

Apple has no values, and so long as they go on pretending otherwise, neither do its owners, employees, or customers.

Maybe you don't know but David Pogue is not your average blogger. He's the lead tech guy at the NYT.

The lovely thing about worshipping pundits is the way it allows us accept what we're told without the burden of analysis or criticism. Considering the source is so much quicker and easier than determining the facts, following the reasoning, and criticizing the conclusion. The former gives us a primate warm fuzzy, whereas the latter is boring, tedious, and more often than not results only in provisional conclusions which seldom actually conclude anything at all.

The operative word in cult of personality is "cult," and at the center of all such phenomena is inevitably and insupportable core of "because God/Mom/the President/my heart/David Pogue tells me so." The pain and disappointment that inevitably result are apparently more than compensated for by the way in which yesterday's idol can instantly be transformed into today's target. A large part of the appeal of worship is the way in which is provides a prefabricated scapegoat, someone or something to blame for our own disinclination to think.

Trust is antithetical to any attempt to actually determine the truth about anything at all. But of course math is hard, and shopping is fun.

No doubt… thoughtless, ignorant people whose use of language gives an altogether distasteful glimpse into their self-serving, deluded minds.

Unless we're talking about the fruit, "Apple" is an abstraction, just like every corporation. Corporations are legal institutions, and have no thoughts, feelings, or values, or any self awareness capable of taking offense. Pretending otherwise may benefit the 5% of Americans who own 95% of the world, and them only in the very short term, but is a gruesome disservice to everyone else. This might seem a pointlessly punctilious distinction, but consider the the result to date of having assigned the corporation - which is nothing but a collection of paperwork - more legal rights than individuals – who live, breath, bleed, and die.

As Michael Moore so adroitly demonstrated, if the corporation were an individual, we would have to diagnose it as psychotic and take appropriate steps to prevent it from harming itself and others. As it stands, Mr. Cook and his ilk routinely speak as high priests conveying the word of God, Inc., and the rest of us too often accept this lunacy at face value.

Tim Cook is free to talk about his own values, or those of anyone he believes he represents, and to take responsibility for them. Talking about the "values" of Apple's, on the other hand, is nothing more than a way to escape the latter by refusing to do the former.

Apple has no values, and so long as they go on pretending otherwise, neither do its owners, employees, or customers.

You are confusing Apple with earlier, traditional corporations. Apple is the first Zen Buddhist media company of any size in history. Conscientiousness is built into the group of people who make up this particular corporate entity, whose business is world enlightenment.

Similar to the first portable book publisher, Aldus Manutius, who c. 1500 began the last Enlightenment. New media force new consciousness.

Except for those who can't open their eyes, who are stuck in the common pool of memes.

Agree with you 100%.
Remember thou, that a lot of the frothing Apple zealots on this site are investors. A negative light on Apple is a negative light on them and their god.

To you and me and other sane people, Apple devices are technology gadgets and computing devices - to them, they are idols to be worshiped and CEO's are their clergy. Their rewards are monies and riches that they did nothing to earn.
These sick psychophants dont care about child exploitation or an inhabitable planet - not as long as their false god continues to reward them.

Apple's attempt to control the message through the medium will not be successful. Freedom has always found a way to weave through tyrany much more potent then a psudo american company like Apple.

If you have a point to make make it. Relying on "those guys over there are losers, you and me are smart" makes you sound lazy in a way that can't be bothered to think very hard because it's easier to sneer.

And friend? Can you link for me any example, whatsoever, where you have decried the ongoing and endemic problems with working conditions in China before it became a convenient cudgel to use against Apple, handed to you by other people? Because if you can't it really looks like your "concern" for those workers begins and ends with the chance to score points against a particular corporation and it's customers, as an exercise in stroking your vanity. Which would be pretty cynical, would it not? Much worse than even not caring, but actually wiling to distort and manipulate to serve an agenda entirely different from improving anyone's lot in life.

They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.

The lovely thing about worshipping pundits is the way it allows us accept what we're told without the burden of analysis or criticism. Considering the source is so much quicker and easier than determining the facts, following the reasoning, and criticizing the conclusion. The former gives us a primate warm fuzzy, whereas the latter is boring, tedious, and more often than not results only in provisional conclusions which seldom actually conclude anything at all.

The operative word in cult of personality is "cult," and at the center of all such phenomena is inevitably and insupportable core of "because God/Mom/the President/my heart/David Pogue tells me so." The pain and disappointment that inevitably result are apparently more than compensated for by the way in which yesterday's idol can instantly be transformed into today's target. A large part of the appeal of worship is the way in which is provides a prefabricated scapegoat, someone or something to blame for our own disinclination to think.

Trust is antithetical to any attempt to actually determine the truth about anything at all. But of course math is hard, and shopping is fun.

You forgot Walt Mossberg/John Gruber

"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX

Apple is the first Zen Buddhist media company of any size in history. Conscientiousness is built into the group of people who make up this particular corporate entity, whose business is world enlightenment.

Because Steve went to India when he was young?
Get real.
You should read their contracts. Nothing Zen about Apple.

As a condition to be "exclusively" invited to their press event, Apple asks for favorable reviews and hype over its products. The more hype and coverage you generate with the word "apple" in your tags, the more likely you will be awarded a spot to gain access.

No one would dare say a bad thing about Apple now because they wield that heavy stick. Then again, that isnt quite surprising as they are bullies after all.

Conflict of interest and little dose of moral hazard at hand folks.

All those who say otherwise are in denial.

If my statements were NOT true, then Apple would've continued to invite NY Times to their event.

But, after this, that isn't so.

Whats funny is that, all of the media companies after the "bad presses" regarding antenna gate issues, iPhone 4 design release and now the workplace issues are ALL based on facts.

Apple doesn't want to ruin its perfectly molded image of its self as this prevailing white knight that everyone (especially in this neck of the woods) thinks the company is.

In short, it didn't want to face the truth. What happened after the aftermath of all three instances? Rubber covers were issued to consumers for the antenna gate, more strict

security policies were in place to prevent further leaks and increased scrutiny on its third party OEM's. None of this would've happened if the stuff that was reported were

indeed false.

The posts that I expect after this will determine who is truly delusional and those who are rational.

Have at it people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvidal

I really saw that coming. Well deserved.

Apple always highlighted NYT in its products to only receive that kind of bad journalism back.

Bad journalism?

How so?

Because it reflects Apple in a negative way = "bad journalism"?

So you think the practices that Apple's third party OEM's are doing are perfectly legal and okay?

That there is nothing immoral about it?

How about I call you having bad citizenship?

If you see something wrong, you go and fix it.

That is how civilizations expect of its citizens.

Those who turn a blind eye to that in the name of personal gain don't have to right to be called citizens.

Now in the face of globalization, we arent just citizens of certain countries of a "global" citizen now.

We all should act like one.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400." - 11/21/12 by Galbi

Because Steve went to India when he was young?
Get real.
You should read their contracts. Nothing Zen about Apple.

Those complex and high context contracts are a reflection of what is required to even carry out a relationship with suppliers/customers et al. We live in a high context society whe every iota of terms and conditions are expected to be spelled out or NO DEAL.

Doesn't mean Apple can't work within the constraints of modern international business to try to do the right thing wherever they can and be ever mindful of its very important customers. While Apple can't commandeer the plant in China , they can offer educational classes and try to raise the general conditions, even though they don't own it.

It will be interesting to watch them be mindful into the future. For sure, they won't waste your time!

What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto