One of the things that Ray and Steve would like to accomplish with this podcast is to open it up to a larger “discussion” with our listeners. While at this point, it’s impossible to have listeners actually participate live in the podcast recording, you are invited to comment here with ideas for future podcast episodes.

Your ideas don’t have to be elaborate — you can just leave a few words of a topic if you want. Or, if you already have detailed thoughts, go ahead and share them.

Currently, Ray and Steve record approximately once a month, recording 3-4 episodes at a time, so it may be a few weeks before we’re able to get to your suggestions, but we will try to address each topic, if possible. (Depending on the topics, various topics may be grouped together into one podcast episode.)

126 Comments on “Idea Submission”

I’ve been out of the box now for nigh on 3 years. So much of charismatic faith traditions concentrate on a type of hyper-spirituality. From the way that the music and sermons are structured to the barrage of messages about the apostolic and prophetic. Everything was over-blow and larger than life.

Even simple things like the packing of a sermon into a neat package and the keyboard tinkling away in the background with the final prayer. I just found that I got extremely tired of the repetition, lack of spontaneity and dissonance between what was said and expected and what my own life experiences were.

It would be great if you could talk about the fact that it is okay to have a quiet, simple life. Enjoying the normal rhythms of life and engaging in community life with folks of all persuasions.

Thanks for making the effort to produce interesting and honest discussions about your experiences in life.

I like what Ian had to say, and in a way, it might go along with my thoughts.

I have been known as a “prayer warrior” for many years through out my state, nation, and internationally.

Now that all of the fluff and baggage has been pruned in the life of grace and intimacy with the Lord, I am trying to wondering again about prayer. I am finding that a lot of it is, as Ian said, a quiet listening to the heart of Father, Who lives in our heart. But, I wonder if maybe you guys would like to expand on it. What is prayer, what does it look like?

Great ideas guys!
Ian,
This is exactly along the lines of some things that I have been thinking about lately. Within the Institutional Church framework I was accustomed to expecting Father’s plan for me to be something that is HUGE. But, I am finding out that what is HUGE to Papa is not what is demonstrated at times within the church framework that we are used to. Thanks for the suggestion; I definitely want to do a podcast on this!

Heather,
It seems that the farther down the rabbit hole I go, the harder it becomes for me to fit my habitual paradigm of prayer into my relationship with Papa. I want to do an episode on this and hopefully we can have some dialog that will help us all on this topic. Thanks for your suggestion.

Two things –
1)The host of Snark Infested Waters said a great quote, “Most churches today are a marketing vehichle for a brand called christianity.” To me that was an awesome summarization.

2) The christian right and churches in general all seem to hold that being Gay is a sin. I know many homosexuals and in my quest for seeking truth and getting closer to God I have yet to be convinced or convicted that being gay is a sin. To be clear I am not gay but I can’t find out why 99% of “christians” say it is wrong. I like questions in lieu of statements so here goes. Why if I am getting close to God, and supposedly being gay is wrong, am I feeling more love for my gay friends and no conviction to pray for them or that it is evil?

Sorry for the long post but I feel the need to clarify for a moment. I believe in the holy spirit as that clear quiet voice, instinct or conscience if you will, the truth in which all things in my life are checked against. I have changed many of my habits and ways because of this “gut” check. I still don’t feel anything but love and acceptance for these people. I know this is a HUGE topic that has many angles and discussions but I am starting with the basic principle of christian rejection and the idea of sin.

Also how much is either deliberate or unintentional mentalism/magic? Derren Brown is an agnostic who used his mentalism training to convince 5 spiritualist (including 1 pastor) that he was the real deal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ02I6QyagM

I’ve always been uncomfortable with “prophesies” like Pat Robinson uses on his show – just naming out diseases and problems and saying that they’re healed or fixed. Isn’t that what psychics/horoscopes do?

Gloria, great questions, and thanks for listening! We will try to tackle these issues in an upcoming episode. We’re not entirely sure when our next recording date will be (we have episodes for the next two weeks already in the can), but hopefully we’ll get to yours in the next batch.

Hey guys,
I love the podcast and it has been helping me tremendously through my Christian journey.

My wife and I have been praying for a while about leaving our church due to the reasons you guys discuss in your podcast and some other ones too. Once you make that decision to “unplug” from the institutional church, what should we as Christians do next? How do we tell our pastors, church leaders and friends that attend that we’re leaving the church because we feel that it is God’s will for us and not because we’re dissatisfied with that particular church’s effectiveness? Should we join or start a home church group? Any other steps you’d recommend? Obviously these will differ based on each situation, but we could use some of your collective sagely advice (and some more of Ray’s singing!)

Beyond the box, beyond traditional or institutional church, beyond “house church” even, how do the offices of apostle, prophet, teacher, pastor, preacher, etc. work? What do they look like. What have you experienced in your journey? I mostly hear my simple church type friends talking about informal fellowship times like your weekly breakfasts together or a potluck supper get together that’s way informal. Just wondering… It’s hard to see these “church jobs” outside of what I’ve always known.

I recently listened to a podcast posted by the Free Believers about John 15 where Darin explains that the word “cut off” should have been translated “lift up”. I looked in my husbands NKJV and there is actually a little footnote after the word cut off off and it says “or lifts up”. This was really awesome to see and really makes sense when we read the Bible knowing that God is a God of love primarily.

My question: I was reading in Matthew and John the Baptist uses the same kind of analogy: [b]MT: 3:10 – 12 (Gods Word Translation) “The ax is now ready to cut the roots of the trees. Any tree that doesn’t produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into a fire. I baptize you with water so that you will change the way you think and act. But the one who comes after me is more powerful than I. I am not worthy to remove his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing shovel is in his hand, and he will clean ujp his threshing floor. He will gather his wheat into a barn, but he will burn the husks in a fire that can never be put out.”

It seems that the way John the Baptist puts it – that this same quote really means cut off and thrown into the fire. I don’t understand the whole John the Baptist thing at all. I’ve tried often to read and try to get it… what was his purpose? He seems to be very angry. When Jesus takes over he quotes and continues where John leaves off. MT 4:17 (Gods Word transl) “from then on, Jesus began to tell the people, “turn to God and change the way you think and act, because the kingdom of heaven is near!” Can you help me with this? I’ve posted this question on the Free Believers forum but still have not received a response.

I have been asked the question by my gay uncle and thought it would be a great topic on your show.

What exactly gives the church the legal power to bind marriage in todays America? There are three ways to get married: Some form of preacher, a justice of the peace, and a sea captain out at sea. So what solidifies the power of the church?

I have an idea for a podcast discussion. Boundaries, the book by Cloud and Townsend from a few years ago. From memory, they use old testament verses and psychology but how does that outwork in the life of a follower of Jesus who lays down their life? I imagine you know the book, I would be interested in a discussion on this topic (or similar)particularly in light of the Christian anarchy podcast.

You touched on something many podcasts ago that really helped me. It had to do with the concept of Open Theology. I’ve read some about that – pro and con – since then, but you guys really said it right. Only problem was it was just a brief snippet in a bigger topic. I can’t remember what episode it was in. If you know, please e-mail me. I’d like to listen to it again.

The general idea you presented was that God is like a master chess player. No matter what we do, He can respond to our move in a way that ultimately brings Him great glory and does us great good.

That was healing to me because years ago a brother with the gift of discouragement laid this idea on me that if you “miss the will of God”, you’ll never be what God intended for you to be or do what God intended for you to do. Essentially, your wrong choices condemn you to less than God’s best in your life.

That notion bothered me for years. Eventually God convinced me of his perfect love for me and drove out that fear of being a disappointment to God.
The bigger picture in my request that you cover this topic is that lots of people live with regrets and “if only I had done this” thoughts. I believe that your expanding upon this subject you covered briefly before might really help some of your listeners.

I hope you’ll start recording more often again soon. Even if it’s just brief discussions of 20 minutes or so. I miss hearing you guys.

Presumably neither one of you are in an institutional church. What steps do you personally take to:
1) Fellowship, grow, and learn faithfully
2) Build your faith as a family
3) Instill your faith and beliefs in your own children

Also a follow up question. Lets say you live in a belief that violence is ok for many of your children’s formative years and then you examine your life and believe in non- violence. If you are the major source for information are you not concerned that as you grow in your life your kids will not have enough insight from other sources to not make your previous mistakes?

I have a few ideas.
One I would like to hear a discussion about the idea of depraved humanity. Is humanity completly depraved or is there still apart of God in everyone? Is all humanity is the image of God or was that stripped completly away during the fall? If we are completly depraved how do we explain an atheist having the creativity like God does in having the ability to create life saving inventions or the agnostic who would lay his life down for his children?
Another idea would be about humanism. Is humanistm really antiChrist or does it truly show God’s glory in the way God created man?
Another would be about the idea of having to give God glory for everything or place him first.
Does God really need to be placed first when he already is? Is God too big to be placed on a list?
Does creation and all created things already give God glory with out even trying?

Hey guys. I just wanted to comment on the podcast you made about turning the other cheek. You seem totally against any kind of violence and thats fine. But what would you do if someone broke into your home and tried to hurt your family? Would you just stand there and let that happen? I don’t believe you could. So its kind of hard to make that statement thats says you should never be violent at all. Just sayin!!! Love you guys.

Since Ray has been studying Christian history recently, I was wondering what your thoughts were regarding “revivals”. I’m not talking “gimme that old time religion”. I’m talking significant moves of God in history that have changed the church and impacted society at large. What is your perspective on the possible historical context of this current wave of so many feeling to move away from institutional “church” and into this simpler thing that defies definition? Could it be the beginning of a revival unlike anything that has come before?
And if it might be, will it eventually be embraced in some way by the traditional church? I think of the Jesus Movement of the early ’70s. Traditional church opposed it. In particular, it opposed the Jesus Rock music that was birthed in that revival. But eventually, many traditional churches incorporated – or co-opted – the music into the more respectable “contemporary Christian music”.
What aspects of this current movement might be eventually incorporated into the institutional church? “Home Groups” is too easy. They are already doing that, though typically as mini-church.
Factor in the impact of social networking, world-wide political and economic upheaval, and more. I really feel like the kind of fellowship you guys discuss and what many of my friends experience could be a beginning of something massive and historical in the life of the church Jesus loves.
Take out the crystal ball and look into the future. Compare it with the history of reformation and revivals and prognosticate a bit.

How long ago was it you talked about escatology, as in The Rapture and Armageddon? Seems like more and more Christians are talking about the rapture, especially with all the diasters occuring, etc. I know there are some current teachers saying there really isn’t going to be a rapture. We will all have to endure the tribulation period. Or is life on earth just one tribulation period after another anyway? I remember a Pastor teaching that as God rescued Noah and his family by way of the ark, He will rescue all Christians by way of the Rapture… How does restoration of the earth work with Armageddon, which seems to teach basically total annihilation of the earth?

I wonder if you have considered going even farther behind the veil to take a closer look at the Old Testament, specifically in light of what the writers did and did not know about God and Satan. 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 give a great starting point for a discussion. As far as I can tell Satan was mentioned less than 15 times in the Old Testament.

Each of the following verses drags us toward one question.

• Acts 26:17-18 Tells us the whole world is under the power of Satan – when did this happen?

• Heb 2:14 – 15 Tells us Satan had the power of death, not God – when did he get this power?

• John 10:10 Tells us Satan is the one stealing, killing and destroying – when did he start doing this?

• 2 Corinthians 4:4 Tells us Satan is the god of this world – when did he become the god of this world?

• Ephesians 2:2 Tells us Satan is the prince of the power of the air – when did he acquire this position?

• 1 Peter 5:8 Tells us Satan is an Adversary – when did Satan become mans adversary?

• Matthew 4:3 Tells us Satan is the tempter – when did Satan start tempting?

• John 8:44 Tells us Satan is the liar and the father of lies – when did Satan start lying?

• Acts 10:38 Tells us Satan is the oppressor – when did Satan start oppressing?

• John 8:44 Tells us Satan is the murderer – when did he start murdering?

If this is all true, If Satan is the one who kills, if Satan had the power of death, if he is the god of this world, our adversary and like a roaring lion seeks to devour, if he is the tempter, the liar, the prince of the air, the one who oppresses and Jesus himself said this was so, (from the very beginning). If this is all true, then why is Satan mentioned less than 25 times in all the Old Testament?

Why do we see the serpent as a main character in the fall of man but after this he is scantly talked about? Depending on the theologian and what they use as terms and names for Satan, he is mentioned somewhere around 15 times in the all Old Testament, 12 of them in the first two chapters of Job. If we use the book of Job as one mention, Satan becomes an almost none existent entity as far as the Old Testament is concerned. The New Testament mentions him over 150 times and is 2/3 shorter than the Old. Common sense demands we ask one simple question. What was Satan doing for four thousand years? Or another way to ask the same questions is; what was Satan doing from his lie in the garden until the time of Jesus?

Hey guys,
I’ve been listening to a lot of your back catalog lately and I have noticed you mention the contrast between the old and new covenant often. That brings to my mind the question of whether God’s personality has changed over time. Is this God that we see in Jesus the same God as in the new testament. I believe so, however it does seem that he has certainly changed his ways quite a bit. Has his love changed or just his way of showing it? Also, can God change his mind…or rather does he? Just some thoughts I have been having while listening to the Spirit. Thanks guys, I really have enjoyed listening to your conversations

Have you ever thought about interviewing Dr. John E. Sanders of Open Theism fame? Out of all the proponents of the theological model, he is my preferred theologian. While he is not in the public eye as Greg Boyd but his works have the most impact, I especially appreciate how he refers to himself as a “simple Biblicist”. You can reach him here: http://www.hendrix.edu/religion/religion.aspx?id=6596

The other day I read in the newspaper that they found a ‘new’ tribe in the Amazon that has never had any contact with the ‘outside world’ before. I grew up with the teaching that the whole world needs to be reached with the gospel. Neverless, the thought of sending missionaries to this ‘unreached’ tribe and giving them our western version of Christianity along with our western problems just makes me sick nowadays. Do we really have to do that? Was Jesus really talking to us when he said to “go into all the world”? And did he mean our world today, or maybe just the known world back then? Could it be that this Amazon tribe knows and experinces God in a deeper way that we do in our artificial world?
I was just wondering what people think about this in the ‘Beyond the Box world’.

I have not attended a “church” for 15 years, I assure you, this does not make me any smarter or further along in my “journey” than anyone else. I hesitate to tell others that listen to podcasts like this one or “The God Journey”, or “Into the Wild”, they usually believe I have a lot more knowledge than they do and it’s just not true.

I was raised in “church” since my birth, raised as baptist. One thing that seems to be a part of most religions is “judgement”, all those verses in the bible that speak on judgement. I’ve had many people say to me, “Don’t you worry about Judgement Day, don’t you want your crown?” In other words, because I don’t attend a church, I’m not working, doing the Lord’s business: Sunday school, VBS, youth group activities, revivals, church camps, retreats and the many, many more things it is believed we should be doing in order to qualify ourselves as “doing the Lords work”.
As an example of what these well meaning people are speaking of, I have this web address of a sermon by Billy Graham.

Hi,
Love your podcasts!I am only new to beyond the box, but have enjoyed what i’ve listened to thus far. Love the chat with Sharon Baker…could not put my pen down!!
Through out the interview you rattled off so many books that you have read or that you would be interested in reading. I’m wondering if it would be appropriate to have book list that you guys could add for recommended reading! I know I will be hunting some of them down that you stated but it would help to have correct titles etc….Any way just a thought!! Keep up the great work you are doing for the kingdom. May God totally bless your soxs off!! Peta.

Love the podcast, and while I don’t always agree with what you guys believe, I appreciate your views and love how they challenge me to consider stances that I might not have heard of before. The topic that I would love to hear your opinion on is the destiny of the unevangelized. I sincerely struggle to reconcile the idea that those that have never heard Jesus’ name could be condemned to Hell even though they may not have even rejected him. Can someone go to heaven without directly accepting Jesus Christ and the sacrifice he made for us? I’d love to hear your thoughts on the topic! Sorry if you have covered this in the past and I overlooked it, I’m pretty sure I didn’t come across it but if I missed it I’d love it if you would point me towards it. Thanks!
Matt

Hi Guys. Thought I’d stop by and tell you how much I’m enjoying your podcasts. I noticed back in June Tim Cooper suggested something about Satan and I wondered if you would consider doing a podcast on this (unless you already have and I’ve not found it). Like you I’m rethinking just about everything I ever learned and have listed to a few teachings on the subject “Satan is Who?” at this website

Pretty way out but interesting stuff to ponder. Having spent the bulk of my life as a Jehovah’s Witness and then 10 years in the Baptist and then Charismatic church, my beliefs have been challenged and also changed many times. My comment to most things is “This is where I am at the moment.” Podcasts are pretty much the sum total of my fellowship these days. Keep up the good work and thanks again.

I want to echo Ian and Heather’s idea submissions. Sounds like ‘religious performance and obligation’ contrasted with what Ian stated (which is where I am currently): “it’s okay to have a quiet, simple life. Enjoying the normal rhythms of life and engaging in community life with folks of all persuasions.”

On another note, have you discussed yet the whole concept of paying others to hold positions of leadership and/or “raising support,” for things like “missions?” I was caught up in the whole ‘raising support’ thing when I was in China (’97 – ’02). The whole thing frustrated me to no end! I could have just worked while in China (teaching or tutoring English),even while I was studying the language. Instead, I tried the whole soliciting others to pay me to be there to “share the gospel.” Eventually, I came to the conclusion how wrong that was, at least to me and my conscience and where I was in my journey of faith. It still bothers me to this day!

I had mentioned on facebook before about Gerry Beauchemin who wrote the book “Hope Beyond Hell” and think he would be great to have on the podcast as well. So, i’m submitting it hear officially. I love you guys! and feel closer to the two of you than I do any other believers that I know, personally or otherwise. Thanks for the awsome conversations!

The trinity. Our understanding of the Trinity seems to have suffered a blow. Which is why, I think, we have such a difficult time accepting and living out the teachings of Jesus today. Somewhere along the road, we began to think and behave as though Jesus and the Father don’t actually agree.

An example might be: ” Jesus loves me so much, He’s standing before the Father (who would much rather kill me) reminding Him that He promised not to. ”

Failure to see the absolute unity between Father and Son,has made us ‘orphans’ in our minds. And so we act like orphans- always unsure and powerless to be the light that we are.

Perhaps you’d consider doing a show on “Hellbound?”, the feature length documentary I’m making about the hell debate. We will be releasing a trailer in the first quarter of 2012, so perhaps that would be an opportune time to chat.

Hey guys, Its great you are heeding the bible and testing all spirits. I just landed on one of the podcasts about Francis chan Part 1 on I would not believe in a God…..The opening remarks were really misguiding and misguided. The end times should be clearly told to all peoples. You guys agreed on giving someone the benefit of the doubt about someone knowing the day when Jesus would come back or the rapture. Jesus in the gospels Matthew 24:36-44;New International Version (NIV)

The Day and Hour Unknown
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

You should be warning people about false prophets and not agreeing with them. You guys should simply look at your bible and you will see the false hood of all these things and then you will consider idle talk on this subject. No one knows the hour or the day that Jesus will come back. All we can do is be ready so that He finds us ready.

I’ve been one of your listeners for a year now, and I love your work. You’ve also introduced me to Jesus Creed blog. Thanks.
I was wondering if you guys can do a show in bible study format – maybe one of you make up set of questions and study the bible with our listeners. I know it sounds boring, but I think if you can cover those warning passages in Hebrews that Scott McKnight is talking about, I would definitely want to listen to it. (or you could do Romans 9…)
Thank you again!

Would you consider inviting Wendy Gritter as a guest to talk about her idea of (and forthcoming book on) “generous spaciousness.” Wendy’s heart is to see a bridging of the gap between the church and the GLBT community. “We exist to nurture safe & spacious places for sexual minorities to explore & grow in faith in Jesus Christ.”http://www.newdirection.ca/

I’m new to Beyond the Box having just reached the site by way of the podcast with Mike Hardin on Mimetic Theory. Here are three great persons who have been shaking the box inside my head recently:
James Alison
Karen Armstrong
Richard Rohr
Keep up the good work.

@ Deborah-
I’m so glad to see that someone else is sounding the Trinity bell around here!!! If you are interested in Trinitarian Theology- please, do yourself a favor- in fact, it’s not a favor, it’s a necessity for all people who do not want to feel like orphans in regard to God- check out any of C. Baxter Kruger’s stuff- starting with perichoresis.org, or just Google his name. I have read all of his books, and listened to every one of his pod casts- since becoming a Christian (and hearing about God ever since I was young), I have never heard anyone talk about the Father in way that “connected the dots” like this man- really.

I’m with Deb and Chris on discussing God as Triune in a positive light. I know it’s been discussed previously, but if I’m not mistaken I think it was more in the light of leaving space to NOT being dogmatic about it, as far as whether it should be considered an “essential” or not, in the Christian faith.
@Chris, thanks for the link!
Here’s a quote that I like that “makes sense” to me, while still leaving room to also “live in the tension of” the mystery of God:
“In short, if God is not triune, the Christian life is unintelligible. If God is not triune, then how can He be love? For before creation, there would be no one for Him to love. (I’ve developed this argument elsewhere.).” Frank Viola

Wow Judy G, great way to summarize this subject, thanks for your comment. In recognizing that there is a tension in the mystery of God (i.e. out of our league to comprehend), an intriguing aspect of Trinitarian theology for me is that it helps me to understand why God is love – i.e. not some lonely, therefore impersonal and grumpy, singular Zeus-like entity on some extraterrestrial throne constantly judging everyone and hurling thunderbolts, but relational instead.

There are free on-line books linked to each of these posts to give the full biblical foundation for the points they make.

I myself used to be a pastor of an evangelical church. But after having been in full-time ministry for 15 years, I came to see that I wasn’t being nearly as biblical as I thought. I came to see that it was the kingdom of God we should be pursuing, not church – Jesus Christ we should be pursuing, not each other.

I hope what I have learned from the Lord will be of use to you and those who come to your site.

I have just finished reading “Everyone is going to heaven.” Very interesting stuff, much of which I agree with. I have a question though, as I did not seem to find a clear answer in the text- what happens to/with those who continually reject Jesus, even after coming to meet Him face to face?

10 And he *said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.”

It almost seems like our conduct here doesn’t matter, and that the Lord will simply sort it all out, but that doesn’t make any sense in light of all the passages exhorting us to better behavior and thinking, and all of the warning passages, etc. What do you think?

Our conduct here matters far more than most people realize. We are being judged for every word we speak and every action we take. Even the secrets of our hearts are being judged. Some of this judgment comes in this life, with the balance showing up in the world to come.

People who think that everyone going to heaven means that it doesn’t matter what we do here are way off base. Many who are first here will be last there, and vice versa.

The central theme of Jesus’ teaching was the kingdom of God. This kingdom is present in this life on this earth and our challenge is to enter and remain in it. It is being ruled by Jesus the King, doing all things for His pleasure.

I am glad to hear that you believe that everyone is going to heaven and that it is important to think and behave better. In fact, we should be seeking to imitate Jesus in all that we think, say, and do. Church has lost complete sight of this and seeks only to create churchgoers rather than true disciples of Christ. If you’re a disciple of Christ you listen to and follow Christ – not Rev. So-and-so.

I woke up this morning with Anthophilia in my bonnet, and have argued with just about everything in my path from the Tassimo in my kitchen to my word processor. Then I came across the latest comments on this post, which I took as a sign from God to continue in my argumentative mood.

Chris, I wonder if we try to read too much out of the texts in the book Revelation. It is apocryphal literature and it seems to be a more difficult book to isolate a line or two (contrary to the dispensational approach) than the rest of the NT. In the fundamentalist church world, Heb. 9:27 has been used to imply (scare people) that after death one faces a sentencing based on their earthly record. The word used for judgement here (Gk “krisis”) may actually mean decision/choice and may refer to an opportunity to choose to accept or reject Jesus. This may occur over an unspecified period of time (different for each person). Maybe John was alluding to this idea as well. In any case, the idea of post mortem judgment is worth exploring. “What happens to those who continually reject Jesus, even after coming to meet Him face to face” – sh!t if I know. I don’t think the scriptures discuss this clearly (i.e. this decision belongs to God alone). I guess that’s where I leave it.

Mike, although I’m not a full member of Antinomian Inc. just yet, to me behavior modification is not the end game. The idea that humans can imitate Jesus seems to be an impossible goal. I am speculating that it is the Holy Spirit who leads us in that direction so that the result ultimately comes from our heart. As a result we become more like Jesus, but the overall process takes time (different for every person) with guidance being the responsibility of the Holy Spirit. It results from Christ living His life in us and not by us “getting it done” by forcing ourselves to behave. Also, I am wondering if the end game is really a more intimate and forever lasting relationship with Him rather than perfected negative behavior suppression.

Just my op. Hey, gotta go for now – I’ve just spotted another person to argue with.

I do not see “a more intimate and forever lasting relationship with Him” and “behavior improvement” as mutually exclusive goals. Quite the contrary, they are flip sides of the same coin. As it says in 1 John 2:6: “the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.”

Apart from intimacy with Him, we can effect no significant or lasting behavioral improvement. That’s what Romans 7 was all about. Apart from improving behaviorally, our claims to intimacy are hollow. That’s what Matthew 7:21-27 was all about.

Thanks for your comments. I guess we see things differently. I sort of view 1 John 2:6 as directed against Gnostic philosophy and the lie (which John was battling against, hence the 1 John 3:6 line) that a sinless state could be achieved via a knowledge/self-discipline combo rather than looking to Christ (Heb 12:2). To me this was more the issue than commanding obedience since Christ followers are already 1 John 4:12 peeps.

In Matt 7, to me Christ was addressing an Old Covenant group and v21 was a reference back to Matt 5, i.e. if you want to know what the Father’s real will is/has been all along, it’s in living Matt 5 and not in badges for keeping commandments. I guess I’m coming from the view that God doesn’t hate sin because He despises imperfection, but rather He hates the disease of sin because it alienates us from Him and from others around us who we have hurt. If God totally loathed imperfect sin-based creatures, it doesn’t seem to me that creating humans was the way to go. Droids with inbuilt “legalistic chips” would be the way to go.

Finally, I must admit that I’m not really a big sola scriptura dude. You and I view these passages quite differently, and cheers to differences – otherwise life would be boring. So in summary, I enjoyed this brief dialog along with reading your blog.

I love it! I think it’s great that we can all come here and disagree, and not end up calling each other “children of Satan.” Although I think that you might be one Jim (you’re alright Mike)…Just kidding!! LOL!!! No, seriously, I am not really sure where I stand anymore, except for the fact that I believe with all my heart that God is good, and that He is love (and loving), and to that end, to love my family and to love others (even those who are against me), really is the only way to go; even if love is “impractical” at times, it is far superior to the alternative(s) of hate, bitterness, resentment, anger, rage, and all the rest, because those things are altogether futile and lead to destruction- love really does win, even if at first it may not seem like it- that’s what keeps me hanging on to Christ- the fact that He wants to hang on to me, even when I am unwillingly to hang on to Him.

Yes, Christ is the cornerstone of all that’s worth hanging on to. His way is love, and His way is right. His crucifixion and resurrection show us that while love may not always appear to win in the short run, it always wins in the long run, and therefore always wins.

Interview Chris Rice and Emmanuel Katongole, authors of “Reconciling All Things” from the Duke University Center for Reconciliation (Divinity School). The book is part of a fantastic reconciliation series. They fit, I think, with your reconciliation emphasis

Hi Guys,
Ive been ‘conversing’ with some friends on facebook recently. They are what id term Christian Zionists who are flipped out about the republishing of Hitler’s ‘Mein Kunpf’ (think thats how you spell it). I made comment that Nazis were into book burning and that we should’nt be so scared since i think most people wont become Neo-Nazis after reading it. In fact it may be an interesting document to study regarding Mimetic Theory etc. So it got me thinking about the whole idea of sencoreship. SOme ideas and beliefs can be very dangerous…however we have all felt the pressure of sencorship in our lives as followers of Jesus, particuarly when you start to question ‘unqestionable’ beliefs and statements. What do you guys think about sencorship? or what do you guys think about Christian Zionism? I use to believe in it, and now in light of the Love of Jesus, it gives me the creaps… Thanks for your podcasts and honesty….da nana na da-na( guitar line from BtB)

I just lost my mom and was not expecting the deep sadness that has come over me. Would you consider a talk on loss and grief and mourning? Even what I believe re: the afterlife…”our future hope” (I Cor 15), well, it’s great for the mind, but… Anyway, just an idea.
Jean Fogelberg started this website after caring for her husband, Dan. Together, they battled prostate cancer for three years. I’m finding the resources here helpful. I wrote a tribute to my mom. Here’s the link!http://dontloseheart.org/in-memoriam/dorothy-ott-gale-juso/

I am processing an insight that by implication will have dramatic affects on how we interpret scripture. How we read scripture is very important. If we read scripture as a commentary then we choose to either believe it or not. I choose to believe the writers conclusion. If I read the scripture as a documentary then I have the capacity to see the conclusions that the writer has come too as well as bring my own based upon the progressive revelation I may have. Is this sound? If so, then from what I currently understand about Hebrew thought is that God created all things and that includes evil. Is it right to say that Hebrew thought considered God the creator of both good and evil because all things come from God? If this is true then scripture states time and time again that God did or said…many things that we would consider today as evil. So from Hebrew perspective God doing evil fit their worldview. But as we look at scripture via God’s nature…Goodness cannot do evil…evil itself is defined as the opposite of Good. Thoughts?

Hi Ray and Steve, I just discovered your podcast last night and I really like it. God opened my mind to universal reconciliation over a year ago. I’ve been scouring the internet for a bunch of resources on the subject, but what I’d really like to find is a good debate, or just a discussion, between a Christian Universalist and a Christian Annihilationist (e.g., Dr. Edward Fudge).

I’ve just released a book on the subject of the “dying and rising gods” in the ancient world that seem to parallel the story of Jesus. I’ve written an essay that introduces it at http://redmoonrising.com/osiris.htm. Love the podcast. I’m a huge critic of free-market globalization and I very much appreciate the anarchist perspective. Keep up the good podcasts!

When polarized discussion takes place on the concept/existence of hell, there seems to be only 2 places to land. One is the “universalist” pad, and the other is the separation of sheep and goats slab.

Jesus’ teaching implies a “reversalist” bend.

It’s the “Not everyone who says to me ‘Lord, Lord’ – “Many from east and west and north and south will gather” dichotomy.

In short, there are those who believe their ticket is stamped who will knock on a door that will not be answered – and at the same time, there are those who “do the will of my Father who is in heaven…” who “enter the Kingdom of heaven.”

Thanks for your podcasts, I discovered them before the summer, and have gone through most of them – great stuff, I’ll need to get my head around things and thoughts together before I comment on individual ones. In the meantime, I’d love you to do a podcast with Justin Lee http://gcnjustin.tumblr.com/ who has a book coming out:

“Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate”

I first came across Justin through Rachel Held Evan’s Blog and her “ask a …” series

I ran into a new e-book today and the title intrigued me: “Why Be a Christian (if no one goes to hell)?” by Daniel Meeter. I didn’t know if you already have or wanted to look into him and maybe do an interview. The book sounds intriguing… Here is some info and some links:

About the Author:

Daniel Meeter is a pastor and theologian who lives in Brooklyn, New York. He serves one of the oldest historic churches in America, Park Slope’s Old First Dutch Reformed Church. He earned his Ph.D. from Drew University, and has taught Ancient Greek, theology, worship, and world religions at the high school, college, and divinity school level. He is active in inter-faith dialogue and social service, especially with the homeless of Park Slope, Brooklyn. He likes opera, symphonies, bluegrass, the Blues, and rock-and-roll.

Daniel is available for limited blog and podcast interviews. If you’d like to interview him, please email us at speakeasyontap@gmail.com
________________________________

Thanks so much for your ministry through Beyond the Box! I cannot tell you how much you guys have blessed me in the just the short time I’ve been listening. God bless you guys in your continued work of ministry to the “displaced” Body of Christ.

Great podcasts. How about an interview with Dr. C. Baxter Kruger. His latest book The Shack Revisited would be a great discussion along the lines of Derek Flood, Robin Perry and others. His work grounds “Christian Reconciliation” in the Nicene Fathers as not a new approach but to the earliest. Assume you’ve interviewed Paul Young previously about The Shack. If not, why not? His new book Cross Roads is another great read. Blessings

Hello
Really enjoyed your discussions on non-violence. You need to go to Google – You tube tdk938 – Interview on Gospel Nonviolence with Fr. Emmanuel Charles McCarthy, on ” Higher Ground “ound.
This is a man that you need to meet. He has dedicated his life to non-violence. I first heard him 30 years ago his message is revolutionary. What an amazing message that he has. Know one has put it together like Charlie.
He can be reached at http://www.centreforchristiannonviolence.org

I’m loving these podcasts. Keep it up! I think a fitting subject would be to address the oppression or suppression of women in the church, coming usually from a very conservative view of scripture. I’m finding even in progressive Conversations such as these, the conversation is dominated by men ( no offense, I am one too!). I posed a similar question to Kevin Miller on his movie Hellbound? Regarding the lack of women theologians used. The majority of voices we hear in all these conversations are male voices. I appreciate that you’ve brought a few women on here but they have still been a small minority. Maybe one podcast could address this ( with a female theologian or writer preferably:)), and why the church historically has felt the need to silence female voices in ways that are still felt today, and how that might add to our view of theology and God if the power Imbalances were addressed and corrected.

So, this may be the world’s most arrogant idea, but I’d like to put forward the issue of “work” for a podcast. And it just so happens, I’ve recently self-published my book about the very subject on amazon (why work matters: a guide for perplexed and confused Christians) and am available for Skype interview… Seriously, it’s a subject frighteningly-little discussed (hence writing about it) and I’d be pleased to do a little to change that.

hi steve ray
been listening for a couple of months now and like what yous are doing. was thinking if i was God and i knew the begging from the end and lets just say half of my children would spend 70 years on this earth then spend the rest of eternity in absolute hell there is no way i would be having children . and that’s is my biggest reason for believing not even ONE SOUL will end up in this so called hell. GOD IS NO LOSER . AND AFTER ALL LOVE NEVER FAILS. AND IF ONE SOUL ENDED UP THERE IF I WAS GOD I WOULD CONSIDER MY SELF A LOSER.GOD DOSE NOT HAVE TO ASK US ,DO YOU WANT SALVATION! ,HE WILL DO IT FRIST AND ASK LATER. IF ANY ONE WITH ALL THE FACTS IN FRONT OF THEM WHATS TO BE AWAY FROM FARTHER ,SON, AND SPIRIT I WILL BE VERY SURPRISED .NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN,ITS LIKE ASKING A FISH DO YOU WANT TO LIVE OUT OF THE WATER.

I was introduced to your podcasts just a short while ago by a friend. I want to share with you that i am greatly enjoying them and have been edified by them. I real respect the honest and open dialogue that happens on the podcasts. I have the same experience with a handful of friends and we share a similar experience. To be able to safely question what we have been indoctrinated has been healthy spiritually for me. Sometimes i wonder if is not even imparative to do so.
A suggestion for a future podcast that i offer would be to concider the Quaker view point in regard to scruipture being the final authority. Their view is that the Spirit within is the final authority. It might make for an interesting rabit trail and some revelation. I have been reading some of their books and find them very profound and full of spiritual insight.
Well thanks for sharing your journey, it is encouraging to me.
Keith

In the recent episode, the devil wears nada, Ray you spoke of the dilemma of Gos seemingly wanting to be involved in all aspects of our lives or things that are important to us, but how can this be when people are dying of starvation, I think your question to Tripp was maybe asking how to reconcile the two, I think it would be a great idea for a podcast to try and tease this out a bit, I know it’s certainly something I wrestle with, my current thought is probably that as we walk more with God, then our prayers become less about, our issues and needs, and more about what God wants to accomplish in our lives, though I’m not fully convinced that this is the case

Hi guys,
I would really love to somehow have the issue of identity explored a bit more, perhaps again with Michael Hardin and brad jersak. Girards material often talks about identity being received and not grasped for but what does that mean? Also, Michael spoke last time about there being no you or me but just the relationship between us. I work in psychology at the moment and see so much in the area of self esteem. How do we find our true identities?

The other topic would be how to find a self giving god within nature and survival of the fittest, especially if we don’t subscribe to fallen angels messing the natural world up!
Thanks for opening this up to our ideas!

Great podcast, I am still working my way through the older ones as I have decided to listen to them in order. Two thoughts that are forefront in my mind are 1: The placement of Jesus’s words “forgive them for they know not what they do.” at the cross. Could he be talking to us because he knew that we would focus all of our attention on his death instead of his life there by missing the point of his life? and 2: With all your discussions of a non violent God that is “LOVE” how does the book Jude and Revelations fit in with the idea of this?

Have a talk with Bradley Jersak about his new translation of Simone Weil’s classic Awaiting God. Weil doesn’t get enough attention any more, and if she doesn’t count as “beyond the box” I don’t know who does.

Sarah, I worry about the same issue. I have gotten so confused at times about what I should pray for. As someone who has enough food to eat and a warm house to live in I often feel uncomfortable about praying for myself or family and friends because I wonder why God would respond to my prayer about my headache, or my neighbours electric bill etc… when most of the world’s population is hungry, has no access to clean water etc.. At times my my pain can seem very real and yet I often realise it is not close to what so many in the world have suffered and I end up feeling guilty about praying for myself. I keep coming away from prayer thinking ‘even if my prayers are answered can it really be God?’ because most of what I end up praying about seems so trivial. I would love to hear a podcast on this subject too please Ray. P.S. I know prayer is a lot about building a relationship with God and just talking with him or thanking him, not just asking for things, but I would love to hear a podcast about why we pray for things in our lives and what we should expect to happen when we do. (Big subject, I know, but BtB is great at taking on big question!)

Love the podcast, and would love a discussion on panentheism. There’s a significant historical tradition of panentheism in Christian mysticism, and whether it’s Christ filling up the cosmos in Colossians or God being all-in-all in 1 Cor 15, or whether it could serve as a sort of philosophical prequel to the discussions of hell, I think it’s a discussion worth having. A view of God wherein God is integrated into his creation is part of a wholistic picture of nonviolence… I think, anyway =).

How about talking about christian ideas regarding vegetarianism related to non-violence and to be good stewards of God’s creation. There is some interesting information on the Christian Vegetarian association website.
I always enjoy your podcasts and the books you recommend.

I fell from the ministry three years ago when I committed adultery. I began to blog anonymously about my experiences. I was contacted by a publisher. I wrote a book called, “Fallen Pastor: Finding Restoration in a Broken World.” It is available on all major online retailers.

I now have a ministry on my blog at http://www.fallenpastor.com for those who fall from ministry. I need to be clear. I am responsible for my sin. Since that time, God has shown grace to me.

According to one statistic, 1,500 pastors leave the ministry a month due to burnout, conflict, or moral failure. We are responsible for our egregious sin. There is also a culture within the church that is leading our pastors to failure.

I know you have a podcast and would love to discuss this epidemic with you. I can provide you with a PDF copy of my book. There is also a media kit on my site on the “interview” tab.

I don’t necessarily want to come on your well respected show and sell my book. I just want to expose a huge problem.

Please consider it so that people will see the danger and might be helped.

Hey guys, I’ve been listening to this podcast for a while now. I’m going through it all in chronological order (I’m somewhere in the episodes from 2010 now – still have a lot of ground to cover…).

I was wondering if there has already been an episode on what is commonly called ‘apostolic succession’. Basically this is a doctrine in the Roman catholic and the eastern orthodox churches that there is an unbroken chain from Jesus to the apostles to the guys they taught, who became the first bishops, who taught the next generation, and so on and on…

Considering that the Bible didn’t predate the apostles and their transmission of ideas, how much reliability do you assign to this transmission of ideas from generation to generation? And considering that you often criticize Christianity after Constantine, are all the church fathers before Nicea cool with you? Do you hold their teachings in very high regard, since they are in an unbroken (?) line with the apostles and Jesus? I’m interested in how you view this issue.

I recently stumbled across your podcasts and have found them to be life-giving in every sense of the word. As an ordained pentecostal minister, professor of spirituality at a denominational university and a pastor of a inter-denominational ministry I have felt the crunch of restrictive evangelical christianity. Your podcasts have been a welcome resource to share with those I am often slowly and secretly helping escape the box (I have found that we often have to go through the process of trading our current box for larger boxes before we can exit it altogether). I was wondering if you guys have done any work with theology and disability. Amos Yong has written a couple of books on this, Theology and Down Syndrome and The Bible, Disability and the Church are two works which have been important in the reshaping of my view of radical hospitality and the image of God. I would love to hear your thoughts on these works. Amos seems to be shaking things up in the new land of pentecostal academia and is certainly stretching the box f not moving fully beyond it. I believe that this topic would be of great interest to your listeners. Let me know what you think about the idea and please keep doing what you are doing.

First would be regarding angels. We’ve covered a lot regarding the satan and demons, what they could be in relation to memetic theory. I never hear a lot about angels though. Should we be approaching angels in a different light as well?

My second would be about parenting. Me and my wife often speak about how to teach our children the stories in the bible. I just think about Noah. Do we even approach these subjects, or should these things we consider “Sunday school children stories” be saved for a more mature reading of scripture? What do we teach our kids about the bible?

I would be interested in hearing a discussion on the relationship between general and special revelation. The traditional view emphasizes the need for special revelation as a requirement for salvation, but what degree of knowledge is really needed for salvation, and is the line between the two forms as distinct as the Protestant tradition maintains?

You guys have touched on mimetic theory a bit in the past with Michael Hardin. Another author named James Warren has recently published a book called Compassion Or Apocalypse: A Comprehensible Guide to the Thought of Rene Girard which has been recommended highly by Brian McLaren (he also wrote the forward) for people new to Girard and mimetic theory. Jim is also a dynamic personality and a great interview! You can contact him through his website: http://www.biblicalpeacemaking.org.

I have just been introduced to your broadcast and am enjoying it immensely! I have been recently greatly surprised by God revealing “Himself/Herself” as a mother to me(we really need some gender-neutral personal pronouns in English!). I’ve appreciated hearing Brad Jersak on some occassions referring to God as He or She. As I ponder beyond the personal ramifications of this Mother revelation in my life, I also come to the theology of the Trinity. I wonder if this man-made term limits the perception we have of God these days? We’ve identified the three most common “manifestations” of God, but I wonder if we have shut off the further flow by naming a three-personed Trinity? Is Father a metaphor, like Mother may be a metaphor, or like God as some kind of bird spreading His wings over us is another metaphor (Psalm 91:4)? Or are these three the fullness of the intended God-in-community? Wow, I feel very heretical even considering this question!

I am fairly new to these discussions. I’m wondering if a progressive approach to GOD and the Bible will be necessary to reach the current generation. They are highly educated and have all the information in the world at their fingertips. It seems the days of blindly believing your parents and pastors are over. Conservatives have great concern about “loosing this generation to the world”. There is no telling them science is wrong and the 7 day creation is right. We are asking them to check their brains at the door before they walk into church. I think many of these young people are loosing their faith in GOD altogether.
If you haven’t already done so, maybe a show on reaching our kids who are bombarded with a world where the science of evolution is leading to atheism. How do we keep GOD in the picture if the Bible is indeed a book of myth and legend rather than the inspired Word of GOD?

Based on your podcast on Lee Camp’s book, you may be interested in mine as well, for which he wrote the foreword. It’s about my time doing nonviolent direct action in the West Bank. It’s full of stories and reflections about how one might be peaceable and practice Christian nonviolence in such a volatile context of injustice.

I don’t understand your name. You’re so outside the box that you are considered beyond. It’s like bed bath and beyond, it still sells bedding and bath items …ok maybe kitchen items also.
I was a Christian for 30 yrs until i began to realize that my problems of doubt took root in Christianity and not in a man named Yahshua(to me Jesus is the substitute(anti)christ). If Christianity can be dismantled do we see that as a good thing or is it bad. Maybe Christianity is John 3:14 instead of John 3:16 and maybe John 3:16 reads a little different than what has been delivered to us. Maybe we are fighting spiritual evolution because we are happy slaves singing kumbiyah in the Christian matrix. So i really don’t get the beyond unless you mean that the president of Bed, Bath and Beyond is going to announce that he is giving away all his bed and bath goods to all that need them and will begin selling cars. Do we really need Christianity to know YHVH….do we? For some the answer is yes because it at least faces in the right direction but how do we pinpoint YHVH. Maybe we follow his instruction for life (Yes Martha, life does come with instructions) Maybe a man named Yahshua was not YHVH and maybe Yahshua had a G-d and had a faith and maybe we who follow Yahshua will come to know that G-d YHVH as Yahshua knew Him. We can be slaves to Christianity(Egypt)or we can get up and leave it. We all know the story don’t we but have we observed it. Well my comment is an observation in itself in the form of a question. How far beyond (or down the rabbit hole ) do you want to go, beyond or just up to the outer boundaries of Christianity. Christianity to me is now a bittersweet memory, but i know that i had to go through it, but not everyone sees it that way. Would you dare consider beyond Christianity or is it truly an inconceivably thought.

Have you done a podcast of all the most misused words in the Christian church? ESP those used to support penal substitution etc… Like Just, Justice, holy, sin seperated etc….. These terms or phrases are thrown at me when I share universal reconciliation bc they don’t know what they actually mean in the context of the scriptures.

Podcast idea, in case it’s not somewhere in here (ill keep looking) – why you do not vote? I listened to “should we support isreal” and you touched on that the prince iof this world works behind the powers of this world. I never caught that before in the scriptures! I’m pretty sure that may tie into in another episode I heard it briefly mentioned ‘ I don’t vote”. Would you talk about that sometime? I bet their is some very useful insight into things we never picked up in scriptures that may have lead you to not vote. I’m just guessing 😉

I must say I have loved listening to the podcasts that you have done. I’m sure you get a ton of requests of guests to get on the podcast. I want to add to the recommended list.

I think doing a podcast on the clobber passages in Scripture regarding homosexuality would be fantastic. We are trending as a country to equality in marriage and yet so many Christian communities believe the Bible is absolutely clear on this topic and is a sign of God’s judgment to come.

Colby Martin, a pastor at Mission Gathering (in San Diego) takes the Bible seriously and delves deeply into the Scriptures to teach otherwise. I believe Richard Beck mentioned Mission Gathering in one of his podcasts with you.

To learn more about Colby you can find him at: colbymartinonline.com

I attended a 6 week workshop that Colby did on the topic of the clobber passages in Scripture as well as had Colby and his wife Kate come to my house church and teach – was absolutely tremendous. I think we as listeners would benfit greatly by having Colby on the podcast. If you are interested let me know if you want me to make contact with him

I am a fairly new listener, and I’ve been greatly refreshed by most of what I have heard. Having grown up in a conservative, reformed Evangelical church, I am encouraged to know that others are asking the sort of questions I’ve had, and coming to similar answers.

However, I recently listened to the “What is Community”? episode, and one thing that was discussed frustrated me: the dismissal of the idea that we should be excellent in our work and art. I seem to have had the opposite experience as the participants in your discussion. I am a musician myself, and I have a burning passion to give my best for God. And while I’m sure it was unintentional, it seemed as if the group had concluded that the pursuit of excellence is not a proper attitude, if it means recognizing one person’s skills over those of another, whereas it was suggested that churches tend to promote the best singer, the best guitar player, or what have you.

But on the contrary: all my life I have been deliberately thwarted at every attempt to do well in the only thing where I have natural talent, because of the idea that being excellent is somehow undesirable; that making skillful and beautiful music is inherently vain, and that it is preferable to promote those who have no musical skill. This is always disastrous, in my experience. Those who can play and sing well are deliberately handicapped, while those who cannot are thrust into work to which they are not suited, even against their will. At the very least, I observe, music should be musical. A tone-deaf person shouldn’t be asked to lead music any more than a physically weak person should be asked to carry a heavy burden.

I recognize that it is wrong to glorify people for their talent and exclude those who have less talent, but how is it not just as wrong to forbid those who have talent from expressing it? In fact, this is the issue that pushed me “beyond the box”: I and others in my church community have had ideas about how what we are doing could be GREAT, and we are sincerely motivated to do it to God’s glory. And the leadership are afraid that greatness must be vain; seeming to presume that anyone who desires excellence in his own work must be out for his own glory. It is the same attitude that opposes learning; that says thinking about how we ought to interpret scripture is wrong, because of the literalistic attitude of “God said it, we believe it, that settles it”. I think that it is a distrust of human effort and passion, at its root, deriving from a vigorous application of the doctrine of Total Depravity.

One may desire excellence and not want glory. (Personally, I don’t even like being the center of attention. And I should also clarify here that I’m not highly talented either—but I am proficient enough to be regarded by some as a showoff by default.) If such a person has an idea about how to make worship better, to bless people and bless God, is it really loving to dismiss that person and promote someone who doesn’t have a gift in that area? I have come to believe, contrary to what I was taught “inside the box”, that excellence IS important for a Christian; and that piety is no substitute for excellence.

I think that there must be a way to allow those who were given great talent to use it to the fullest—to be excellent—while not excluding those given less. And perhaps the problem is that we put too much emphasis on the show when it comes to music. Everyone wants to be on stage, because they think that’s the best way to serve the body and glorify God. But I say, so what that you (for a hypothetical value of “you”) are not a great singer? Who cares if your words don’t move people to tears? Why is that so important? Didn’t you pound the pavement to collect food for the food bank? Didn’t you fix that plumbing for an elderly member? Don’t the kids in the nursery love your stories? That is no less worthy of recognition! You have your gift, and I have mine, and neither of us should think the other either lesser or greater.

The difference is that I’m on stage and you’re not. And if that’s a problem, then I say in earnest, perhaps neither of us should be. Perhaps the stage is the problem. Perhaps the issue is that we have stages, where people become spectacles., at all But stage or no stage, God is excellent in all he does. He never made anything shabby, and that includes those vessels who don’t sound good behind a microphone. Maybe if we recognized that the other gifts are just as important, we would be able to pursue mutual excellence in those areas where God has given each of us our respective talents, rather than cutting down some to make room for others, whether in the name of excellence at the expense of community, or out of the idea that the pursuit of excellence in art is unworthy.

I have enjoyed many of your podcasts. I seem to be struggling with many of the same issues you are addressing. Currently studying different atonement theories and came across the solidarity framework. Perhaps you might interview Tony Jones for a discussion of the many theories and in particular what he calls a better atonement theory.

Hi Ray and Steve… I left a comment on the Facebook BtB page and thought to leave one here as well.

Been listening to the podcasts and contributing to discussion in the BtB Community group as time allows. Things move along pretty fast over there. I have a hard time keeping up. lol

I live in Crowley Lake, California on the Eastside of the Sierra. Kind of a different world from the Southeast US. And fairly isolated from a lot of the progressive Christian thinking and living going on elsewhere. Big mountains and big snow usually.. this year.. not so much.

BtB community is a great place for connecting with folks from all over and to be honest.. it is becoming my go to community for thinking outside the box.

With so much talk lately about the Christ presented in the Bible and Christ of the New Age, I would love to hear a roundtable discussion to help differentiate.. I could see the discussion touching on the Universalism vs Pluralism debate as well.

I would like to hear you guys address living a Christian life or living “beyond the box” so to speak within a marriage in which the other person is…well, very IN the box. I know you guys talk a lot about the idolatry of the nuclear family, but surely you don’t throw that idea out in favor of a radical life? Isn’t there a way to follow Jesus for me, even though my husband’s desires revolve around a nice car, big house, and working til we die?

Hope this makes sense. I’m at a point in life where we don’t have a lot of money — still no health care etc — and “my time is not my own” so I’m not able to volunteer etc like I would like. Just looking for ideas and would love to hear a discussion on a “mixed-ideals” marriage or “unevenly yolked” marriages.

Hi guys…I was thinking it might be good to discuss the theory of Adam and Eve having been clothed in glory in the garden- I know this glory covering is talked about in the orthodox tradition as being their “royal robes” before the fall, and could account for their un-selfconsciousness before the fall and their sudden shock when the robes were removed at the fall. I Have wondered lately whether this covering was a shadow of our participation in the life of the Trinity or whether they actually did participate in it.. sort of saw the earth and their life through the lens of heaven so to speak, hence the shock at its removal, finding themselves now with God still in the picture, with a perceived separation from him, but now tied to the tree of conscience (good and evil), at any rate what a great picture of union, john 17 suddenly makes a lot of sense and it ratifies the idea that this whole story begins with union and family, and redemption is largely the rediscovery of that union.

Hey Guys,
I know you can’t get to all the rabbit trails! Some we just have to pursue personally as we grow. I wanted to throw a few ideas out there for consideration. Some came from listening to your podcasts and i guess others are just from my particular background:Romans 9 in light of non-violence; the story of uzza touching the ark; redefining holiness as love (by Jesus and Paul); roland allen’s spontaneous expansion of the church (dealing with rapid growth of jesus communities); canon within a canon (how disciples today should weigh words of gospels/jesus against other NT writings); what is paul’s real problem with the galatians?; or your personal advice for those who decide to remain “in the box” engaging the hostility and pushback against a so called “different gospel”.

I recently went back and listened to “Everyday Spirituality.” This is an idea to which I strive daily to subscribe. I would love to hear you guys give a response to the groundswell of information available on the subject of “Simple Living.” I would love to hear a balanced banter on this topic. There are the “Preppers”, the “Tiny House” movement, the “Mother Earth Newsies”, the hippies, and a host of other types. There are nuances from all of these that have nuggets of brilliance mixed with other ideas that are either; A) not very practical, or B) just nutty.

I do really like the vibe I get from a YouTuber, Wranglerstar. In this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP2_d73-c9M) he presents some balanced ideology, not that I’m putting the Good Housekeeping stamp of approval on it. He is a self-proclaimed homesteader therefore a lot of his content is not applicable to most of us living in suburbia.
He also does Bible Studies on YouTube. I have not watched them, my point in saying that is that he is one of the few that I have seen that makes a claim of Christianity and an approach to simplicity from a perspective that, at least on the surface, seems pretty good.

The underlying feeling is that we (Westerners – US,UK, etc.) have bought in so hardily to Consumerism. How about a discussion that brings to the table the questions and the balance between the “vow of poverty” and the “Prosperity Message” of the 80’s and 90’s? I understand the basis for both of these extremes, but I feel that there is a more (dare I use the word) “Enlightened” approach to this subject. When do we feel content and when is contentment confused with complacency?

Why do bad things happen to Good people… I had this revelation about the good Samaritan story. First Substitute the G.S. for GOD then make all others random people. Next answer Jesus’s question of “who showed love” with the answer the inn keeper. Follow the thought of People do bad things to People, GOD comes along and brings hurt people to other people that can help with what they have then allows them to love the person who GOD brought to them. When GOD comes back he will reimburse us for what we have used to help and love others…. ??? just a thought. God doesn’t hurt people, people hurt people.

I totally agree with most everything you all are saying on each of these podcast episodes. But, I think that is because the Lord has transformed me by revealing to me how very much endeared I am to Him. I don’t know that people can really get most of this until they first get that.

Therefore, I heartily recommend that you have Wayne Jacobsen on, to explain what it means to “live loved”, and to share how that one revelation will open us up to truly understanding God, the Bible, the kingdom, and all of these things.

Is there a possibility of a non-Facebook forum? I live in Chattanooga and I don’t do “social media.” Is there perhaps a group that meets in Chattanooga? Anyone I can correspond with via email or snail mail? I would really love to be part of the discussion.
sincerly,
Peter

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