Id imagine it tastes extremely bitter I have 100 30mg pure codeine tabs and I'm wondering if I put up with that bitter taste it will be worth it i.e. better faster effects? any advice will be appreciated ,cheers

ill answer my own question here but anyways I have just tried it and its not as bitter as I thought and definitely works faster and harder...id NEVER do it with codeine/paracetomol as I hate that toxic paracetomol shite! just pure codeine tabs I know that the dihydrocodeine tastes much more bitter but hey it was worth a try..im off to have another ..

It does? I would expect the opposite, since codeine needs enzymatic activation in the liver. When you take it any other way than oral, it enters the main circulation first, and reaches the liver only after being "diluted" (means that it's been distributed among all the blood and some tissue as well); when you take it orally, it enters circulation only after passing through the liver - that means it enters the liver first, and enters it in "concentrated" form, so the enzymatic activation should be a whole lot more efficient. Only after that it (along with the now-formed morphine) enters the main circulation and is distributed among tissue (including the brain, but also the kidneys); and kidneys start excreting some of it. If it enters circulation before being passed through the liver, then metabolic activation to morphine should be less efficient, and also excretion should start earlier.

Well, that's what should logically happen. In practice, I've never really heard of anyone benefiting from other ROAs than oral. I'm a massive codeine-head, but I do CWE and oral is the only option for me, and it works well. If you don't mind, try oral with the same amount, and compare the results. I'd be interested to know if there's a difference, and whether it's significant or not. How much did you take, by the way?

Codeine is a very fast-acting drug, especially considering that it needs enzymatic activation. With oral ROA, I feel the effects as soon as 6-8 minutes after ingestion.

It does? I would expect the opposite, since codeine needs enzymatic activation in the liver. When you take it any other way than oral, it enters the main circulation first, and reaches the liver only after being "diluted" (means that it's been distributed among all the blood and some tissue as well); when you take it orally, it enters circulation only after passing through the liver - that means it enters the liver first, and enters it in "concentrated" form, so the enzymatic activation should be a whole lot more efficient. Only after that it (along with the now-formed morphine) enters the main circulation and is distributed among tissue (including the brain, but also the kidneys); and kidneys start excreting some of it. If it enters circulation before being passed through the liver, then metabolic activation to morphine should be less efficient, and also excretion should start earlier.

Well, that's what should logically happen. In practice, I've never really heard of anyone benefiting from other ROAs than oral. I'm a massive codeine-head, but I do CWE and oral is the only option for me, and it works well. If you don't mind, try oral with the same amount, and compare the results. I'd be interested to know if there's a difference, and whether it's significant or not. How much did you take, by the way?

Codeine is a very fast-acting drug, especially considering that it needs enzymatic activation. With oral ROA, I feel the effects as soon as 6-8 minutes after ingestion.

yeah I have been reading as much to this effect as I have a few of each DHC and codeine and wondered about different BAs. Tried plugging a little 60mg DHC the other day (my tolerance threshold is around 150mg oral) on top of some kratom and felt pretty much zero, or a mild boost. I had seen reddit reports of a fourfold increase in BA via rectal... But nothing science-y to back that up. I will probably stick to oral for both from now on. I prefer eating drugs in general as it avoids the compulsive re-dosing feelings and rituals that come with smoking, sniffing and other quick fix administrations. You have to have patience for it to effect you before you consider re-dosing, which leads to an all round better philosophy and more productive days. Instead of being preoccupied with the ritual of preparation, you can just eat the stuff and move on and wait and see what's next before acting.

RE the OP. Perhaps you accidentally swallowed more than you might have thought? I tried 0.4g sublingual of very strong hash last night, wasn't sure if I was doing it right as didn't get much out of it even after eating coconut oil and some other fatty goods beforehand. Realised a few things. I had probably been swallowing my saliva all along, as it took a long time to dissolve. And... I found one of the tiny bits of hash in my teeth later when I went to eat, and ended up swallowing it with food. In fact the whole 0.04g might have ended up stuck in my teeth and going down with food, as I then had a big high an hour later. So my point is - I tried to sublingual but I actually ended up with an oral administration. I wonder if this poster has done the same.

Hijacking thread, side question re morphine metabolism:

I know morphine goes through extensive first pass metabolism. So - if one were to eat either some codeine or DHC first, would the liver be pre-occupied or more full of morphine at that moment so that using the morphine on top of the codeine might end up with some form of potentiation and not just *more opiates therefore stronger buzz*. Would the codeine or the DHC actually affect the morphine metabolism in theory...?

If so, would this apply to only oral, or also nasal? I have some Codeine, DHC and morphine - the smallest amount of morphine. I am going to make the chitosan nasal spray, but I have only enough for 3-6 doses of morphine bioavailability dependent. Years ago when I was opiate naive, I tried sustained release morphine with a little DHC on the side. The sudden onset of a much more powerful and different buzz was quite significant, I wondered if I had affected the metabolic process, not just added more opiates = more high.

Morphine is metabolized into an inactive glucuronate, M-3-G, by a different family of enzymes than codeine is into morphine, so the two metabolic processes are not interconnected. So taking codeine before taking oral morphine won't raise morphine's oral BA.

Not all drugs can be taken by every route and in turn, every route with each drug tends to produce different challeneges and/or questions. First, just because one drug works well sublingually does not mean that all drugs will be equally effective under the same circumstances (amount of binders/fillers, conditions of the saliva and mouth, etc.). Drugs that are more lipophilic are typically going to be able to pass more quickly and efficiently through the membranes under the tounge and in the mouth. Most commonly used Opioids don't fall easily into this category.

So, a rule of thumb would be to avoid the route and pick an alternative. This all goes without saying that dealing with multiple Codeine pills is going to severely limit the physical amount of drugs that can be forced through your membranes at any given time. Also, what you're dealing with isn't "pure" Codeine. If anything, it probably makes up 5%-10% of the total weight of the mass, but it's going to vary from maker to maker.

my 60mg codeine phosphates weigh around 80mg - pretty much as pure as you can get on the streets

what I don't understand is - if codeine is metabolised into morphine, why isn't codeine considered as strong or as dangerous as morphine? What am I missing? probably a lot....

also, what is the reported differences in their buzz? Can one take enough codeine pills to match a certain dose of morphine, and feel pretty much the same? Or do the metabolic process attenuate the codeine high so much that it just feels very different?

I've tried both just over a handful of times, but not extensively. DHC probably the most. Not really inclined to experiment to find out, as I am not a good objective "control" at this time as I will be using either of these in place of a kratom addiction so more interested in satisfying my urges than I am analysing my high.

my 60mg codeine phosphates weigh around 80mg - pretty much as pure as you can get on the streets

what I don't understand is - if codeine is metabolised into morphine, why isn't codeine considered as strong or as dangerous as morphine? What am I missing? probably a lot....

also, what is the reported differences in their buzz? Can one take enough codeine pills to match a certain dose of morphine, and feel pretty much the same? Or do the metabolic process attenuate the codeine high so much that it just feels very different?

I've tried both just over a handful of times, but not extensively. DHC probably the most. Not really inclined to experiment to find out, as I am not a good objective "control" at this time as I will be using either of these in place of a kratom addiction so more interested in satisfying my urges than I am analysing my high.

The two drugs are actually very similar, so you're not far off in your thinking. Codeine is sometimes written chemically as 3-Methylmorphine. It depends largely upon the individual in question's amount of enzyme activity, but in a general rule is that Codeine is metabolized into Morphine at approximately a 10% rate, meaning 100mg of Codeine should equal about 10mg of Morphine. Enzyme activity varies from person to person and race to race pretty heavily.

^ and the reason codeine is not considered a hard opioid is because there's a "ceiling effect" - at about 500 mg, the enzyme responsible for metabolizing it into morphine gets overwhelmed and doesn't produce any more morphine at higher dosages. So 1000 mg codeine is approximately (but not really) equivalent to 500 mg codeine. The same is not true for some other opioids, morphine itself included, which do not have such a ceiling effect, and can go higher in terms of intoxication.

aha.... it's all making sense now. How codeine addicts will turn to heroin/morphine etc.

At this time I would be happy just taking codeine or DHC as I can get pretty high off 50mg morphine oral, maybe a bit more. 300mg DHC is good, not actually sure of my exact codeine dose as CWE experiments were disappointing and only just acquired a small amount of the phosphate tabs to experiment with. I will try the 300, and then maybe the 500. There is conflicting infos about BA and effects, probably due to metabolism differences as you say. Interesting about racial differences.

Just out of curiosity, about this ceiling effect - does taking codeine in conjunction with morphine or DHC affect the ceiling effect? Or can one take 50mg of morphine and 500mg of codeine and get roughly the equivalent of double the effect if one took just one or the other?

In a side note have just been reading about the heroin manufacture process and I'm just stunned to read that rough yield from raw opium to heroin is 6%. The example used was for heroin at around 75% purity. From my available sources, a gram of opium is the same price as a gram of heroin...... ridiculous that opium is considered the "premium" product. I much prefer it however, nice and multi layered and long lasting. So I... get scammed?

I did read it in another thread somewhere, but I now can't believe I actually thought "I kind of miss itching from the early days". Took 360mg codeine earlier. My god... I nearly exploded. Luckily I had taken Ranitidine, I had cetirizine hydrochloride and I had loratadine and I had a diphenhydramine skin balm from some eastern european country that I'm pretty sure was just that. So I covered my entire red exploding head with it (I'm bald), my ears, my neck, my chest and back... even just rubbing it in softly was painful .... fuck me. That shit probably saved my life. Still itching now and didn't even get a high due to the distraction and the boiling pain feeling.

and to think I was kind of happy I had the 60mg tabs to play with and was considering doing a 540mg dose