This article seems very sensationalized to me, but I think it's worth posting some excerpts here for reference re: the FRTA. It's also clear that there is a dispute about whether FTRA ever really existed, and even if they did, they were believed to target other transients at the hobo jungles. But meth & alcohol fueled Vietnam vets traveling by train on a robbing/killing spree -- there are enough parallels there, along with Silveria's connections with the area, that it's worth thinking about whether there might be some way this ties in.

"A racist gang of hobos may be responsible for as many as 300 transient murders across the nation in the last decade, including at least 10 in Spokane, Kootenai and Bonner counties, authorities say.

"Police are identifying specific members of the Freight Train Riders of America, thought to number 2,000, in dozens of homicide investigations. They are turning to Spokane police officer Bob Grandinetti, a nationally recognized FTRA expert, to help identify, track and jail the elusive drifters. Transients suspected in the killings claim the gang is a hoax intended to intimidate and scare off casual boxcar riders. To rail riders, the threat is very real. Mere mention of the train gang evokes unmistakable fear.'

``Let's face it, most people just don't give a damn if a transient dies,'' said Salem, Ore., police detective Mike Quakenbush, who recently was involved in the arrest of alleged serial killer and FTRA leader Robert Silveria. The loose-knit gang has terrorized transients in freight trains, rail yards and hobo camps for years.They run roughshod over Southern lines from Texas to California, Northern lines across the Midwest and so-called high lines from Minnesota to Northern California...

"Spokane resident Hugh T. Ross, an alleged FTRA enforcer, was picked up July 20 by police in La Crosse, Wis., hours after he and the train gang were featured on ``America's Most Wanted.'' Days before, officers had released him from the LaCrosse County Jail on unrelated drug charges, not realizing that Ross, underdifferent names, was wanted in connection with at least two transient killings.

``These guys are basically serial killers,'' Grandinetti said.

'Freight Train Riders of America reportedly traces its roots to a group of Vietnam Veterans who hung out in a Northwestern Montana bar. There, 13 years ago, they forged a bizarre rail-riding brotherhood with neo-Nazi, ``white power'' overtones, authorities say. A few summers later, members began to spread out, taking control of the country's rail yards and freight trains, forcing their rituals and precepts on other hobos. By the late 1980s, FTRA enforcers, such as the ``Goonie Squad,'' named for the sticks they reportedly used to beat people, filled boxcar-hopping transients with fear...

"But tying a urine-soaked FTRA bandanna around a recruit's neck and securing it with the honored clasp is a rowdy, public ritual, usually fueled by alcohol and methamphetamine...

'Several years ago, a transient in Spokane tried to rescue a young girl, about 12 years old, from a predatory FTRA member and convicted sex offender known as ``Joshua,'' Grandinetti said. The girl wandered by mistake into a hobo camp Joshua had set up in. She escaped unharmed, but the next morning, friends found the intervening transient dead in his sleeping bag..."

``It took me a little while to pick up on what was going on,'' said Grandinetti, a 30-year veteran of the force. ``I don't trust any of these guys. I guess they respect me because they know I have a gun.''

"At his office, stacks of records, warrants and tips overwhelm the officer's desk. The information is constantly shared with FBI agents, district attorneys and detectives from around the country. Since 1984, Grandinetti has developed 800 criminal profiles of suspected FTRA members, including pictures, criminal records and fingerprints.``All of them are convicted felons,'' he said. ``If I have one without an FBI number, then I know it's a false name.''

"The train gang gained national attention for the first time in March 1996 after FTRA member Robert ``Sidetrack'' Silveria was arrested in Roseville, Calif. More than 20 law enforcement agencies, including the FBI, were introduced to the gang during the Silveria investigation, said Detective Bill Summers of the Placer County Sheriff's Department.

"Silveria, suspected in as many as 20 murders along Western rail routes, was arrested in the Roseville yards last year. He remains in jail in Salem, awaiting trial on two counts of first-degree murder. He allegedly identified other FTRA members in numerous killings, including Spokane resident Hugh ``Dog Man Tony'' Ross, who rodewith Silveria for years. In Spokane County, Ross was convicted in 1992 of first-degree armed robbery and sentenced to 41 months in prison. Eighteen months later, Ross walked away from an Airway Heights Correctional Center work crew that was weeding a golf course at Liberty Lake. After a few days on the lam, he was captured in Royal City, Wash. He was released from prison in 1995. But it's the unsolved crimes he's suspected of that recently landed him back in jail.

"On July 20, Ross was captured in La Crosse, Wis., by sheriff's deputies who recognized him on ``America's Most Wanted.'' It was Grandinetti's three-minute segment on the TV show, featuring the FTRA, that clued them in that Ross was a hardened criminal. Doing the dinner dishes on July 19, La Crosse County sheriff's Deputy Steve Helgesen recognized Ross on the television. He is wanted for an October 1995 murder in Saginaw, Texas, and a February 1994 killing in Big Springs, Texas. Both victims are thought to be transients. Ross is now being held in the La Crosse County Jail without bond. He adamantly denies existence of the FTRA, according to detectives."

``He's lying,'' Grandinetti said. ``These murders, most of the time, are just written off. They are the hardest to investigate, the hardest to solve. ``The gang is there,'' he said. ``They're not held accountable for it because they commit the crimes and are gone.

The FTRA didn't exist in 1981, and there is no evidence either Marty or Bo knew any train hoppers. And there is no real evidence any of them had anything at all to do with this case.

Silveria really was in jail during the murders. He was arrested and went to trial on April 23, 1980 for various charges including Grand Theft Auto. He got out in June of 1981. His 'confession' sounded to me like he was recycling rumors about the case that he would have heard after he got out of jail.

I've tried to respond with my thoughts on Silveria and what I've learned but keep getting distracted. At some point I will just settle down and write something out. Until then, I wanted to share photos because I still can't get over the similarity of the long-haired composite and Silveria. Out of all those mentioned over the years, Silveria, to me, looks the most like the right hand pic. The chin, the Adam's apple, the straight eyebrows, etc.

#2 This guy is a close 2nd for me...and a current RSO (although he was still a teenager at the time of the crimes...I wonder if his brothers looked similar to him...)

Thanks for the encouragement not sure. Mean Kitty, I realize that the FTRA supposedly didn't exist yet in 1981, but the members didn't start being psychopaths on the day they joined (if the group existed at all). There are too many key themes in the murders that are repeated in these articles about the freight-hoppers to NOT give this a very close look. Among the freight-hoppers were some seriously violent drug addicts and thieves. Some were Vietnam vets living outside society and the law. The line that ran through Keddie was super easy to hop and ran right through drug country (and in Oakland and Nevada). And it stopped in Keddie where it was easy to jump off right there in town. One of the regular stops was in the middle of the night. How can we NOT look at this more closely??

"The Southern Pacific Railroad and Western Pacific came to a shared trackage agreement to use directional running.[1] Eastbound trains of both companies used the tracks for the Feather River Route while westbound trains used the Overland Route.[2] In the shared track area, the tracks mostly run on opposite sides of the Humboldt River; at some points the two lines are several miles apart. There is one grade separated crossing of the two lines near Palisade, Nevada. For the shared track agreement, crossovers were constructed where the lines run in close proximity to allow bi-directional service to the areas previously only accessible from one of the lines, such as Battle Mountain.[3]"

I've made a post about what I learned from Mr. Palmini. But essentially, there was a timeline created by ViCAP at Quantico, which detailed every contact made by law enforcement with Silveria. And he was in custody on 4/11/81. I've posted other details from my discussion with Mr. Palmini at my site.

We were told by different PIs very early on in the movie that he was in custody at the time, but Mr. Palmini is clearly a definitive source. He wasn't "recollecting," but rather reporting from an official document that he spent time locating for us. Beyond that, he is a really nice person and offered a few theories about the Keddie Murders.

I also spoke with Mr. Palmini about the possibility of me contacting Silveria myself through letter. The best bet would be to write to the Oregon penitentiary in hopes they would forward it on to Wyoming. But, after speaking with my wife, we agreed that sending a letter to a convicted serial killer in which I would ask him to write back (and therefore, revealing my name and address) was not the best idea. And the chances of receiving a reply would be slim, anyway.

Josh

I'm not finding any threads here on this board where you've discussed your conversation with Palmini (I suspect it was posted on the now defunct "project" board). Any way you can fill us in on your conversation, what the document was/looked like, (e.g. what it said specifically)(for instance, who the arresting officer/s were, the specific offense, was bail set, etc). In the past, Palmini has stated no one could produce a document that proved beyond a doubt Robert was in lock-up. He said they had an LE tribunal in Washington state not long after he was arrested in '96 to discuss his movements and they all agreed he was in lock-up but not because of any documents but, rather, they were taking the word of local LE that he was. To hear there is a document, to me, is significant and seeing that document would put that argument to rest indefinitely.Can you fill us in on all of this?Thanks, Josh.NS

Here's the first few minutes of the b-movie attempt at film noir, 1950's "Western Pacific Agent", which I watched a few nights ago. In it, you see what looks like a run of the California Zephyr, with WU locomotive 801 at the head. It then cuts to the opening scene of an attendant on an observation car informing passengers of the history of Feather River Canyon, and then a couple in that same car setting up the plot of the film by discussing a hobo camp they see out the window. The car is at the tail of the train, as you can see the tracks through the window of the rear door at the bottom of the screen. Then it cuts to a segue shot into a town labelled as Chester- where much of the story supposedly takes place- but it's clearly not Chester.

It's an awful little film with a couple notable faces- 'comic' Sid Melton, and Dick Elliott- the original Mayor Pike in the Andy Griffith Show- plays the sheriff. It is interesting to see the trains, as well as the supposed setting of Plumas, but what I find most interesting is the hobo camp being in the first scene and being so prominently a source for the plot.

I've been researching trains & drug smuggling this morning. The first thing I found was the UP website discussing how UP is suing to have fines they have recieved canceled because they have no control over what comes out of Mexico since they do not own those trains http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/releases/g ... toms.shtml - most common thing being smuggled?? Pot...apparently these smugglers get their drugs on the trains unbeknownst to the crews by sneaking their products in while the trains are parked for loading & use things like graffiti to let their partners at the next pick up know which trains are carrying the drugs..The drugs aren't even placed IN the rail cars either but sometimes stored in ply woood compartments under the trains, under axles & other hideyholes the smugglers can find to ensure the crew does not know that they are smuggling the drugs.

If this does have something to do with drug running on trains it makes me wonder if maybe Sue's rain road worker boyfriend had seen something & attacking Sue was to keep him quiet, it's already been speculated that the crime scene was ment to send someone a message-

I decided to spend some time researching train smuggling after we discussed it in chat last night, and saw the same things- loads of drugs coming in from Mexico, mostly pot and coke. X-rays and other technology used to scan trains as they enter. All of that sounds like recent developments, not related to what was going on in California in the 80s. Particularly Keddie, which was on a relatively unknown and underutilized line. Western Pacific was in steep decline from assaults by competition, mainly Southern Pacific. They'd lost passenger traffic a couple decades prior, and by 1981 WP was on it's way out. Tying smuggling to WP routes is just very difficult to put together due to the remoteness of the line... I believe it basically ran from SLC down to Sac, but I'd have to research that again.

I think the best way to approach researching train smuggling that could apply to Keddie may be to a> look into any instances of smuggling using trains in the 70s and 80s, and also read up a bit on the WP line and what lines they connected to. Of course, I've done this work already re: WP lines (and lost the results prior to posting it), and I'll try to find some of the links and maps I found concerning the network Keddie was connected to, but I do KNOW the High Line went north thru Klamath, thru Sandpoint ID, and up through the northwestern States-- including hitting many of the rail towns heavily mentioned in the Octopus arguments. The Octopus stuff is all about state-sponsored smuggling, but I don't recall it having to do with rail lines, despite them being rail towns where the coverup murders occurred.

edit: found a link to maps showing where/how WP interlinked, and their routes:

This post belongs right next to 'Station Agent', but it better fits on threads about the birth, rise, and death of Keddie-- and the Western Pacific.

I stumbled across a documentary on my digital TV antenna setup the other night, and immediately figured out it involved Western Pacific. The program, made by Richard W. Luckin, turned out to be about one train, titled "Silver Thread Through the West: The California Zephyr". It's a seemingly thorough job, with heads of rail lines, lawyers, and wait staff, and vintage footage telling the tale. The interviews were filmed late-80s, with vintage footage of the Zephyr in flight, and old news footage included (yet there is no footage of Keddie. I have yet to see professionally-shot footage of Keddie or the Wye). It's a remarkable piece for any railfan, and indispensable to Zephyr fans.

What's disturbing about this docu is a few figures and names, and bits of news reports shown about the demise of the Zephyr. It seems like the spearhead of this film is in Denver, not Plumas County, and the narrative recollections of the downfall of the Zephyr (and Keddie) do not remotely mesh with what most Plumasites may believe.

According to Plumas lore, the death of the California Zephyr had nothing to do with Western Pacific, and WP had to retool it's engines for freight once the Zephyr ended. The death of the Zephyr in the late 60s brought an end to rail passenger traffic in Plumas, and that's when Keddie/Plumas went from bad to WORST.

This docu says the death of the Zephyr was engineered by the head of Western Pacific, Myron Christy (who is also interviewed for the film). The argument is that Christy used a tiny loss on the Zephyr, the golden idol of his rail line, as an excuse to kill the Zephyr and retool his machines for hauling nothing but freight. As this story goes, he publicly announced WP could not continue the Zephyr because the staggering losses would lead to the bankruptcy and dissolution of Western Pacific. However, heads of other railroads and lawyers involved call that a crap tale. To a man, they like Christy, but they say he's flat out lying about the Zephyr, as the losses were minor.

$15,000 was apparently at risk per year- that's how much WP supposedly lost on the Zephyr. The ZEPHYR was WP's flagship run, worth 20 times the sum in publicity had WP been SMART. So Christy used the $15,000 yearly loss on the Zephyr to stop ALL passenger travel on WP, even though he was already retooling the Zephyr engines for freight before he made that announcement.

In other words, this docu not only is great for railfans, it could go a long way to understanding who killed Keddie and why. Here is a short excerpt from the film, and it includes great shots of the WP Zephyr engines.

PS the very first guy talking is the WP head himself, Myron Christy.

Look at the clip around 6:22, saying that AFTER the WW2 Exposition Flyer train service, WESTERN PACIFIC were already RELUCTANT to stay in the passenger trade. That should be news to all the Plumas landholders who were PROMISED their land back by the US Gov't, and riches from continued passenger traffic after WW2. JEEEEEEZ. Remember how the owners of the meadow where 'Keddie Motel' was built by the War Dept had to sue the gov't just to get their land back?

Supposedly it was used just as a radio spot or something, with those buildings built in a circle for housing. Seems to me we're missing a lot of info about why that particular place had so many wires going in and out. It was the highest-tech spot in Plumas during the entire war, so why don't we know more about "Pleasant View"?

The Gov't demanded the meadow and outlying property at the beginning of WWII, and promised to lease and improve and build on it and give it back to the owners with NO REPAYMENT for "improvements". The US govt reneged (as always), and the owners sued, eventually winning. Those US War huts became motel rooms. WHAT WERE THEY BEFORE?

Those buildings were NOT housing at all. Look at the amount of wires going in. WWII. Wires. Don't make me laugh if anyone wants to claim this was housing for military. No, it was a SECRET MILITARY INSTALLATION.Duh....

In the 80's on the WP Keddie was a crew change town only for trains heading further north to Klamath Falls (next crew change) and beyond. Still is nowadays as well under BNSF, crews stay at a hotel in Quincy. Keddie is not a stop for east/west traffic to/from portola though. So basically, if you are on a train coming from oakland/sac/oroville, you would have to know that you have a k-falls train beforehand to be certain to stop. Not out of the question at all (workers tend to be helpful, and the makeup of the train, mostly empty lumber cars) but the majority of traffic would be east/west through portola, likely blowing through Keddie.

Also, the idea that an area like Plumas county would have the appetite for the quantity of drugs that a major smuggling operation and murder of 4 people would entail is kind of absurd. Small town potatoes folks.

That said, any town where trains frequently stop will likely have a hobo camp (jungle) and these arent always known for the most savory of characters.

The drug theory doesn't necessarily imply the drugs were being supplied to the area for use. Rather, the thought is the drugs were being shipped in for dividing and distribution elsewhere. Large operators often use small, foliage dense, rural locations to prep the product. Plumas itself isn't a largely populated place but it is close to some major towns and byways that could easily accomodate large quantities of drugs.If you look at the 'carney' connection, it makes sense that someone might choose a place like Quincy to drop a shipment to, divide it up and put it into circulation just in time for the spring/summer carnival season to commence. We've long been looking at the fairgrounds manager as being a suspicious character and not past this kind of activity.

And if the Octopus/DOJ/rural Sheriff drug-running is any indication, Plumas would have been a trade route, a distribution corridor, not the end-of-the-line for consumption. Even if the Octopus/DOJ/rural Sheriff angle isn't accurate in this case, Plumas would still be a corridor.

But name a better reason for the DOJ/PCSO to intentionally screw this case?

I was just going to post that there has been a lot of discussion of this elsewhere in the forum, and post some links, but I see we have a handy-dandy new feature that suggests other similar threads. I tend to be slightly ocd, so maybe it's just me, but I think it's really helpful when we can combine similar threads. Should this one be merged with the older one? I'm guessing an admin would need to do that?

In the late 70's and early 80's I got into a bit of "tramping". I always had my big Black Lab named Buzzard with me because things were getting pretty dangerous on the rails, by hobo gangs, at that time. One hobo in Oroville asked me why I called him Buzzard and I replied that all I had to do was say one certain word and he would attack you and after he killed you he would eat you! I never told anyone what the "magic" word was! I got to ride the BN from Oroville to The Dalles, Ore. over the Keddie Wye at midnight on a full moon! Just hangin' my feet out the boxcar door and takin' it all in! Wow! What a great trip that was! I always carried a 2 gallon jug of water with me because you never know where you'll end up on a freight train! I also always carried my 3 main switch keys (UP,SP,BN) and my Adlake coach key. I met my future wife a year or so later and she "civilized" me (and the dog). Oh, the sweet fruits of my youth.

workin in Oakland switch yard in the seventies we saw a lot of hobos including one who name escapes me who the bulk of the local hobos said was called the king of the hobos, we also had the local chapter of the hobos of north america out in berkly who had a bust of about four or more people who were wanted for violent crimes around the country. the local guys that lived by the railroad tracks had a number of grifitiea sysbols and marks that they left in place were other hobos could read thier code that told them were to look or were they could get free things or food.

(Photo caption) "1974,KEDDIE,CALIFORNIA,OVER SPANISH CREEK CATCHING OUT OVER TRESTLE AND BETWEEN TUNNELS WITH DEINSTITUTIONALIZATION OF STATE MENTAL HOSPITALS THOUSANDS OF UNKNOWNS MADE THE RAILS HOME" http://www.angelfire.com/co/hoboenglish/

I'm a long time fan of Utah Phillips, but I had no idea that "Loafer's Glory" was named for the "hobo camp" at Keddie!! http://lehnherr.com/butte/loafers.html "Loafer's Glory is, by the way, the name of a hobo jungle under the old Western Pacific water tower by Keddie, California, at the top of the Feather River canyon. For awhile it was almost like a second home to me." Damn, if I'd known this before he died, I could have asked him about this, we have some friends/acquaintances in common -- will try to find more

I sent a message to the photographer, via facebook, asking if he has any more photos of Keddie in 1981 and/or any memories/info about the murders. His fb page doesn't look very active, but I'll let you know if I hear back from him