You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the society.

I just bought a house so I'm going to be putting together a beer/wine cellar (and a dry-cure room, but that's for a separate topic). What beers are you putting away for a few years? Here's what I've got so far, how much it cost and the quantity:

I don't recommend cellaring any hoppy beers like IPAs or double IPAs. Those are meant to be drunk young. Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout, Sierra Nevada Bigfoot and most other beers over 9% are fine candidates, especially in vertical tastings. I'm working on a vertical of Cantillon Lou Pepe Kriek, a sour cherry ale. Look for what's good locally, like interesting beers from Ommegang in Cooperstown.

Definitely cellar Weyerbacher anniversary ales. Any of the numbered ones, they're barleywines, and they only improve, the bite fades, and the fruits and honeys come out. In fact, any barleywine or barleywine style ale has only gotten better. Also, I had a smoked porter cellared for about 4 years, I wish I remembered what it was called, but it was excellent.

In addition to other suggestions (generally high gravity, not hoppy stuff*), I'd suggest good quality sour beers. Probably half of what we're aging is sour. There's a lot of lambics from Cantillon, Drie Fonteinen, De Cam (not available in the US), Hanssens, Oude Beersel, etc, but also other Belgian styles or American interpretations of those Belgian styles. I can take a picture of our "cellar", if you'd like.

*edit: Lilija mentioned barleywines, and I just wanted to point out that American barleywines are the exception to the hoppy rule.

Edited by feedmec00kies, 11 March 2010 - 07:20 PM.

"I know it's the bugs, that's what cheese is. Gone off milk with bugs and mould - that's why it tastes so good. Cows and bugs together have a good deal going down." - Gareth Blackstock (Lenny Henry), Chef!

Okay, I found older pictures of the "cellar" which might help give you an idea of what my very well-versed husband cellars.

There's some stuff he keeps in top tends to be stuff he just throws in there (extras for trading he isn't looking forward to, or other things he ends up with that he's had already or doesn't want), but I think he avoided photographing that stuff. So from Sept 2008, inside the "cellar".

And...

Stuff pulled out that my husband must have been showing off on Ratebeer (a year old):OneTwoThreeFour

"I know it's the bugs, that's what cheese is. Gone off milk with bugs and mould - that's why it tastes so good. Cows and bugs together have a good deal going down." - Gareth Blackstock (Lenny Henry), Chef!

great recommendations everybody, thanks! i'm going to start keeping a list of beers to look out for. good calls on the lambic/gueze side, my girl loves sours. we both love barleywines so i'll remember to look for those too. i saw a Harviestoun up there too and i know that exists at Beers of the World, so maybe that's a next pickup.

I don't recommend cellaring any hoppy beers like IPAs or double IPAs. Those are meant to be drunk young.

??? I was under the impression that hops are a preservative and, in particular, IPAs were originally highly hopped specifically for aging on the voyage to India. Was I misinformed?

You are correct that hops are a preservative and that IPAs were highly hopped to help them on their trip across the ocean to India. The time it took for beer to get from England to India is months which is quite different from cellaring a bottle for years. IPAs many be stronger than most mainstream brews but are still usually not more than 6-7% which is not really high enough ABV to keep a beer good for years. Todays IPA and IIPA brewers are going for the high Alpha Acid hops which add so much fragrance and upfront citrus and floral notes in that style but these qualities fade quickly meaning these will change quickly after a few months in the bottle. The IPA of a hundred years ago bears little resemblance to today's American IPA. Many good beers for cellaring start off with a noticable and often harsh alcohol taste and by aging them this harshness tends to mellow and allow some of the more complex flavours contained in the beer to shine through. A high ABV beer will start with lots more malt than a standard brew and after the alcohol taste fades the other flavours produced by all that malt comes alive.

Fair enough but I would say, it is more that high alcohol beer cellars better, even fairly high hop ones like (at least some) barley wines, and that you wouldn't want to age any beer that has a distinct hop aroma/flavor as opposed to bitterness.

IPAs many be stronger than most mainstream brews but are still usually not more than 6-7% which is not really high enough ABV to keep a beer good for years. Todays IPA and IIPA brewers are going for the high Alpha Acid hops which add so much fragrance and upfront citrus and floral notes in that style but these qualities fade quickly meaning these will change quickly after a few months in the bottle. A high ABV beer will start with lots more malt than a standard brew and after the alcohol taste fades the other flavours produced by all that malt comes alive.

I'm a big fan of cellaring IPAs and DIPAs (especially) actually. Two things to note: 1) it's easy to mask poor brewing skill with a lot of hops, by cellaring an IPA it clears out much of the "bombast" and reveals the "true beer" underneath the IPA; in my opinion, if an IPA can cellar well (admittedly the malt qualities shine through, and hops change) the brewer has done his job of creating a balanced, well-crafted beer; 2) the hops quality certainly changes and they become less "alpha acid" bitter and over-the-top, but much of the bitterness will remain and the grass notes and a "tea-like" quality comes out, I like this change and often IPAs and DIPAs become much more "old ale" or "strong ale" like. One of my personal "aged favorites" is the Great Lakes Lake Erie Monster.

IPAs many be stronger than most mainstream brews but are still usually not more than 6-7% which is not really high enough ABV to keep a beer good for years. Todays IPA and IIPA brewers are going for the high Alpha Acid hops which add so much fragrance and upfront citrus and floral notes in that style but these qualities fade quickly meaning these will change quickly after a few months in the bottle. A high ABV beer will start with lots more malt than a standard brew and after the alcohol taste fades the other flavours produced by all that malt comes alive.

I'm a big fan of cellaring IPAs and DIPAs (especially) actually. Two things to note: 1) it's easy to mask poor brewing skill with a lot of hops, by cellaring an IPA it clears out much of the "bombast" and reveals the "true beer" underneath the IPA; in my opinion, if an IPA can cellar well (admittedly the malt qualities shine through, and hops change) the brewer has done his job of creating a balanced, well-crafted beer; 2) the hops quality certainly changes and they become less "alpha acid" bitter and over-the-top, but much of the bitterness will remain and the grass notes and a "tea-like" quality comes out, I like this change and often IPAs and DIPAs become much more "old ale" or "strong ale" like. One of my personal "aged favorites" is the Great Lakes Lake Erie Monster.

So, take that for what it's worth.

I’m not sure I agree with this.

Modern IPAs and DIPAs really aren’t meant to be aged. They’re hopped to hell because that is what people expect out of them and, while I cannot speak for every brewer, I can’t imagine a brewer going through the trouble to hop to hop/wet hop/dry hop a beer just to have the customer put the beer down to rid the beer of all the benefits of the hopping. It’s not as if bittering hops are the beer equivalent to tannins in wine with the brewer adding hops with the intent that the beer with “mature” with age.

And, sure, hops can mask a flawed beer, but so what? If we’re going to use that standard, then we should give credit to the folks who brew Miller Lite and Budweiser because their beers are so consistently devoid of any flavor there is absolutely nothing for any flaw to ever hide behind. If a brewer is intending to make a hop-heavy beer, then that is the intent and, in my opinion, criticizing a beer that is meant to be consumed fresh (Pliny the Elder comes to mind) for being a poor beer underneath is the equivalent of attempting to age a Beaujolais Nouveau and being upset with the results. If you’re looking for an old ale or an American Strong ale, why don’t you just purchase beers that were intended to be old ales or strong ales in the first place?

Of course, in the end, these are your beers and you can do whatever you want with them.

Modern IPAs and DIPAs really aren’t meant to be aged. They’re hopped to hell because that is what people expect out of them and, while I cannot speak for every brewer, I can’t imagine a brewer going through the trouble to hop to hop/wet hop/dry hop a beer just to have the customer put the beer down to rid the beer of all the benefits of the hopping. It’s not as if bittering hops are the beer equivalent to tannins in wine with the brewer adding hops with the intent that the beer with “mature” with age.

I'm not really that concerned with what a beer is "meant" to be or the trouble and/or effort a brewer went through to make it or why he/she made it - it should stand on its own without context and without explanation. Lots of brewers "mean" their beer to be good, and it isn't. Sour beers are "meant" to be sour, if you don't like sour things, explaining the intention doesn't make it any better. Modern hefeweizens are "meant" to be served with orange or lemon slices, but I don't like stuff in my beer - does that mean that I'm drinking hefeweizens incorrectly?

I guess I'm not advocating that you only buy IPAs and DIPAs for cellaring. But I am suggesting that there is some value in cellaring them - that they do, in fact, change and sometimes for the better - or at least equivalently different. Yes, the hops, particularly aroma, degrade over time. But bitterness degrades much more slowly with little noticeable difference (especially in DIPAs) 2 or even 3 years down the road (a lot of the reason for this is that our palates can't really differentiate above 75 IBU or so, so 100+ IBU is often functionally equivalent). And, yes, hops can be a bit like tannins, especially with less filtered IPAs, the vegetal properties really come out and hops can taste like steeped tea. The hop aroma disappears, but often the malt aroma comes out, again without losing much of the bitterness. So, it becomes different, sometimes better, sometime not.

My only point is this: Try it. See if you like the results - maybe you will, maybe you won't. I often like the results. You don't. We disagree. The only point of my post is that there are some of us, whether you find me crazy or not, who do cellar some IPAs on occasion. And, frankly, I don't know a single brewer of quality beer that would be offended.

Modern IPAs and DIPAs really aren’t meant to be aged. They’re hopped to hell because that is what people expect out of them and, while I cannot speak for every brewer, I can’t imagine a brewer going through the trouble to hop to hop/wet hop/dry hop a beer just to have the customer put the beer down to rid the beer of all the benefits of the hopping. It’s not as if bittering hops are the beer equivalent to tannins in wine with the brewer adding hops with the intent that the beer with “mature” with age.

I'm not really that concerned with what a beer is "meant" to be or the trouble and/or effort a brewer went through to make it or why he/she made it - it should stand on its own without context and without explanation. Lots of brewers "mean" their beer to be good, and it isn't. Sour beers are "meant" to be sour, if you don't like sour things, explaining the intention doesn't make it any better. Modern hefeweizens are "meant" to be served with orange or lemon slices, but I don't like stuff in my beer - does that mean that I'm drinking hefeweizens incorrectly?

To me, this doesn't make sense. Yes, a sour beer is meant to be sour and, personally, I don't care for sour beers. But that is my preference, it's not as if there is something wrong with the beer. I don't fault the beer for being something it was intended to be. As for IPAs or DIPAs, I feel the same. Beers like Dreadnaught, Artic Panzer Wolf, Exponential Hoppiness, and Pliney are all heavily hopped, but restrained on the malts. It's done to showcase the hops. Aging these beers to see if they will "stand on [their] own without context and without explanation" is pointless and won't result in better beer. I simply can't see faulting an IPA or DIPA (just as I can't fault a sour) for being something it wasn't intended to be.

I guess I'm not advocating that you only buy IPAs and DIPAs for cellaring. But I am suggesting that there is some value in cellaring them - that they do, in fact, change and sometimes for the better - or at least equivalently different. Yes, the hops, particularly aroma, degrade over time. But bitterness degrades much more slowly with little noticeable difference (especially in DIPAs) 2 or even 3 years down the road (a lot of the reason for this is that our palates can't really differentiate above 75 IBU or so, so 100+ IBU is often functionally equivalent). And, yes, hops can be a bit like tannins, especially with less filtered IPAs, the vegetal properties really come out and hops can taste like steeped tea. The hop aroma disappears, but often the malt aroma comes out, again without losing much of the bitterness. So, it becomes different, sometimes better, sometime not.

So every beer ends up tasting like some variation of malts and steeped tea?

My only point is this: Try it. See if you like the results - maybe you will, maybe you won't. I often like the results. You don't. We disagree. The only point of my post is that there are some of us, whether you find me crazy or not, who do cellar some IPAs on occasion. And, frankly, I don't know a single brewer of quality beer that would be offended.

The side of a bottle of Pliney the Elder states: "Keep Cold. Drink fresh. Please do not age.""Consume Pliney fresh""If you must, sit on eggs, not on Pliney"I'm pretty sure Vinnie doesn't want you to age this beer.

Just drank a bottle of Dogfish Head Olde School, their barleywine. It's extremely boozy, like pure whiskey, lots of burn. It's not as complex as some barleywines, but it doesn't suffer from that. As soon as I tasted it, I made up my mind to get another bottle and cellar it. I'm pretty sure it can only get better.

I have the following in my basement... I need to add a few more to my collection.

1994 Cantillon Iris (4 bottles)
Trader Joes Holiday Ale from 2006 and 2008
Old Marley Barleywine (2004, I think)
Panil Belgian Red from 2006
De Proef Signature Les Deux Brasseurs Ale
I think I have a bottle of Stone Old Guardian, but I am not sure.

So, my collection of beer has multiplied greatly over the last year and is now encroaching on my wine collection. The problem has become where do I keep all this beer? Unlike wine, for which I have wine racks and a wine cooler, my beer has largely accumulated in the standard case-sized cardboard box. Since I have well over a hundred bottles, I can say I have several of these boxes stacked on top of each other in a rather disorganized fashion. And while my wife has absolutely no issue with the beer itself, the boxes are a great source of aggravation for her. I’ve looked at buying additional wine racks for the beer, but these pose two problems: (1) unlike wine, the preferable method for storing beer is upright and (2) wine racks may accommodate bombers, but I have yet to find one that can hold a 12oz bottle safely.

Additional wine coolers are out of the question as I simply don’t want six of these things whirring away in my basement.

Where is everyone else keeping their bottles? Is anyone aware of a beer storage system?

Had the 2007 Cantillon Lou Pepe (Kriek) this weekend. Excellent, could have aged it longer without issue. Though, it was perhaps the best kriek I've ever had. Nice funk, plenty of sour. Cherry was there, but not at all sweet.

True rye and true bourbon wake delight like any great wine...dignify man as possessing a palate that responds to them and ennoble his soul as shimmering with the response.

Modern IPAs and DIPAs really aren’t meant to be aged. They’re hopped to hell because that is what people expect out of them and, while I cannot speak for every brewer, I can’t imagine a brewer going through the trouble to hop to hop/wet hop/dry hop a beer just to have the customer put the beer down to rid the beer of all the benefits of the hopping. It’s not as if bittering hops are the beer equivalent to tannins in wine with the brewer adding hops with the intent that the beer with “mature” with age.

I'm not really that concerned with what a beer is "meant" to be or the trouble and/or effort a brewer went through to make it or why he/she made it - it should stand on its own without context and without explanation. Lots of brewers "mean" their beer to be good, and it isn't. Sour beers are "meant" to be sour, if you don't like sour things, explaining the intention doesn't make it any better. Modern hefeweizens are "meant" to be served with orange or lemon slices, but I don't like stuff in my beer - does that mean that I'm drinking hefeweizens incorrectly?

I guess I'm not advocating that you only buy IPAs and DIPAs for cellaring. But I am suggesting that there is some value in cellaring them - that they do, in fact, change and sometimes for the better - or at least equivalently different. Yes, the hops, particularly aroma, degrade over time. But bitterness degrades much more slowly with little noticeable difference (especially in DIPAs) 2 or even 3 years down the road (a lot of the reason for this is that our palates can't really differentiate above 75 IBU or so, so 100+ IBU is often functionally equivalent). And, yes, hops can be a bit like tannins, especially with less filtered IPAs, the vegetal properties really come out and hops can taste like steeped tea. The hop aroma disappears, but often the malt aroma comes out, again without losing much of the bitterness. So, it becomes different, sometimes better, sometime not.

My only point is this: Try it. See if you like the results - maybe you will, maybe you won't. I often like the results. You don't. We disagree. The only point of my post is that there are some of us, whether you find me crazy or not, who do cellar some IPAs on occasion. And, frankly, I don't know a single brewer of quality beer that would be offended.

While I agree with you that the beer should stand on its own, ultimately - after all, you bought it - I think a brewer's intent is instructive if one is going to give a fair evaluation of the product, especially an aged product.

I do have to disagree with the characterization that hop bitterness degrades fairly slowly; obviously so much depends on cellaring conditions, but degradation of iso-a-acids to off-products (which can often be mistaken for "bitter," but are in fact harsh, astringent chemicals differing from the isomerized alpha acids) can be quite pronounced, and it can happen fairly quickly.

So, my collection of beer has multiplied greatly over the last year and is now encroaching on my wine collection. The problem has become where do I keep all this beer? Unlike wine, for which I have wine racks and a wine cooler, my beer has largely accumulated in the standard case-sized cardboard box. Since I have well over a hundred bottles, I can say I have several of these boxes stacked on top of each other in a rather disorganized fashion. And while my wife has absolutely no issue with the beer itself, the boxes are a great source of aggravation for her. I’ve looked at buying additional wine racks for the beer, but these pose two problems: (1) unlike wine, the preferable method for storing beer is upright and (2) wine racks may accommodate bombers, but I have yet to find one that can hold a 12oz bottle safely.

Additional wine coolers are out of the question as I simply don’t want six of these things whirring away in my basement.

Where is everyone else keeping their bottles? Is anyone aware of a beer storage system?

An older post so don't know if you are still looking for something. I was looking for some bottle storage recently, mostly for spirits but a few beers as well, and found this at the Container Store. Other places may have it as well.

Basically you can build a shelving system with these basket shelves and adjust as needed to fit what ever size bottle you are storing. I put a thin sheet of playwood on the bottom cut to size and it seems to work well and provides security to your bottle in case you bump the shelves. In the past on open flat shelfs I was always afraid one bottle would fall and cause a domino effect onto the cruel concrete floors below. Talk about alcohol abuse!

Not a great picture but hopefully you get the idea.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...~tanstaafl2

I just opened a 2005 Mirror Mirror from Deschutes. It was wonderful, good toffee notes and a nice sherry like flavor to it. I replaced it with a bottle of the Stoic from Deschutes and a bottle of the XXIII Black Butte.

A few 2007 and 2008 Trader Joe's Vintage Ales (brewed by Unibroue), and also one bottle of Gouden Carolus Cuvée van de Keizer 2006, and 2-4 bottles each of the same for every year from 2007 to 2011. Not sure when I should open them....

Trying to build a small collection of beers to put away for a while to see how they do. Noted the discussion suggesting IPA’s and American barley wines might not be a good choice. Any thought on whether any of these would not benefit from a bit of age?