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Author
Topic: Hiv risk through rubbing/frottage (Read 60375 times)

Hi. About three and half months ago I had unprotected insertive anal sex and afterwards got sick. I got tested at 14.5 weeks after the incident and tested negative. Like a week before I got tested though, to my own stupidity, I met up with an old friend one night. We weren't supposed to do anything but we did. =(1. It started with me rubbing my penis between his buttocks. I did not penetrate him but I was thinking that maybe there may have been some cuts I didn't see or feel or accidental leakage from the anus that could have exposed me. My penis maybe rubbed the outside of his anus but he says I did not penetrate him. I am not circumcised so I was thinking that some types of fluids attached themeselves to the Langerin cells or something. =( How dangerous is this rubbing without penetration and is there a chance some fluids infected me?2. Afterward we rubbed on each other on the belly, there was a bit of pre-ejaculate on his stomach, and then some on his stomach from me. I don't think our penis heads touched, but I was afraid some of his precum touched these langerin cells on my foreskin. Although I don't remember anything getting on me it may have occured without me noticing.3. We also kissed for like 5 seconds, I had a canker sore that had just healed, could anything have just gotten through that sore. As far as I know he didn't have any sores in his mouth.4. Initially I was not worried about this, but now about 2 weeks after the incident I have noticed that I am trying to get a sore throat. That is an ARS symptom. At the same time there have been people sick at work, but I usually don't get sick that easy! I got my negative HIV test a week AFTER the incident.

How much at risk was I? He claims to be negative but then again I am suspicious.

He can claim what he wants, the only salient issues here arre that you had unprotected anal sex and you tested negative after the HIV window period had expired.

You are HIV negative.

And this isn't too surprising. HIV is not easy to transmit, particularly from the receptive partner to the insertive partner.

That said if you keep having unprotected butt sex (even as the top) you will one day end up with HIV. Forget about symptoms and anal rubbing and all that stuff. Use condoms everytime you fuck someone and you won't have to worry about getting HIV.

Thank you so much for your reply. I have started toward a goal to not have sex for a while now. I have brought condoms just in case. I also dont talk to that guy much anymore. So there is not need for testing with this incident? So exposure to precum is not a danger of infecting an individual during frottage or mutual masturbation? Even if you are uncut? I've read in some internet spots that the risk is very low but can infect the mucous membrane of the foreskin?

Thank you so much for your reply. I have started toward a goal to not have sex for a while now. I have brought condoms just in case. I also dont talk to that guy much anymore. So there is not need for testing with this incident? So exposure to precum is not a danger of infecting an individual during frottage or mutual masturbation? Even if you are uncut? I've read in some internet spots that the risk is very low but can infect the mucous membrane of the foreskin?

Not for the sexual escapades in the week before your HIV test. A bit of frottage isn't gonna give you HIV.

HIV is difficult to transmit. It takes more than someone touching your foreskin with sticky fingers.

There's really no need for you to stop having sex. Sex is a normal, pleasurable thing to do. Provided you use condoms everytime you have anal or vaginal sex you can fuck without worrying about HIV infection.

Thank you so much for the information. I am just a bit freaked out because despite JUST getting my hiv test results, that frottage experience was only a week away from my test. I freaked out also because I got a sore throat like 2 weeks later, which for some reason I expected. I don't get it though, if you don't mind me asking. They say that hiv can attach itself to the special immune cells in the foreskin because it is a mucuous membrane (?), but then I also read somewhere that the skin inside the foreskin is still too thick for hiv to infect from outside the body. Which is true? How fast does the virus die AFTER it's exposed to air? I heard it takes up to five minute, other places have said it dies the instant it is exposed. Or does it just cripple it's ability to transmit when it is exposed to air?

Also I have recently taken my temperature, and it is abnormally low. It's between 96 degrees and 97 orally, and is 97-98 rectally. Is this an indication of hiv infection, I thought my sore throat would be accompanied by a fever, not a low temperature.

Neither the presence nor the absence of so-called symptoms will tell you anything accurately about HIV status. If there has been a risk through the only confirmed sexual risks, unprotected vaginal or anal intercourse, then testing at 13 weeks is required for an all clear.

The risk through an uncircumcised penis is only through unprotected intercourse, not through outside the vagina contact.

The virus is very fragile and begins to be inactive when it hits the air.

Use condoms consistently and you'll be fine as far as sexual transmission is concerned.

Ok. Sorry for being a nuissance. My exposure was with a guy though and it was precum exposure I was worried about but I suppose because it was in air it does not make a difference. I guess I am overreacting, I live on a college campus and some people at work were also sick, I have also been really stressed lately because of hiv concern and of course school and work. Maybe that has something to do with my sore throat. Again, I apologize. I thank you for your patience and information and wish you luck in the future. =)

OK. Duly noted. A sore throat is not even remotely an HIV-specific occurence. Unfortunately once HIV fears are stirred up then everything that happens physically becomes another cause for concern or a SIGN of HIV. 'taint so. You are worrying needlessly.

Okay so I am still confused. I have read on the body that it takes a few hours for hiv to become inactive and is can still be transmitted while the fluid has not dried. I found this on "THE BODY" website,"CDC laboratory studies have shown that drying HIV reduced the viral amounts by 90 to 99% within SEVERAL HOURS." That would mean that I could have still got hiv from the precum accidently rubbing onto my foreskin from his stomach, thus being taken in by the dendritic cells and infecting my bloodstream.

What concerns me the most is that I have read that the foreskin basically absorbs WAY more HIV than even vaginal tissue. =( I am afraid that the small amount of precum I may have rubbed with my penis during the frottage accident was enough to infect. I did not wash after the incident (I showered before the incident). I don't know if any large amount was on my foreskin, but I could have missed some. I know that foreskin is more sucseptible to infection due to another post on, "The Body" :

3. The studies do indicate that male circumcision decreases the risk for acquiring HIV. However, if you follow safer sexual techniques, I don't feel it's necessary.

4. Langerhan's cells (dendritic cells) play an important role in the initiation of HIV infection by virtue of the ability of HIV to bind to specific cell surface receptors of these cells. This allows efficient presentation of HIV to CD4 cells that then become infected. The foreskin contains Langerhan's cells.

5. A mucous membrane is a thin layer (membrane) that lines all internal body passages that communicate directly with air outside the body, such as the respiratory and alimentary tracts, and which has specialized cells or glands that secrete mucous. HIV can permeate mucous membranes, but it cannot permeate intact skin. The foreskin is not a mucous membrane. However, it is a specialized type of skin and HIV can be taken up by the Langerhan's (dendritic) cells located within the foreskin.

Then after reading this I saw a post on this very forum that bothered me. On most replies in the forum it has been repeated alot that frottage and mutual masturbation is not a risk for hiv no matter what twist are put on it, but does that apply to uncut penises? This worried me:

"As I said, HIV is not easily transmitted. It's a fragile virus.

In all but a miniscule number questionable cases, it occurs through either vaginal or anal intercourse. For it to get into your pee hole, it has to be open and exposed for more than the kind of brief period you have described. As far as the receptivity of the glans, it's an uncircumciised guy who is at risk. Even if you are uncircumcised, and IF the guy is HIV+, the semen hitting the air would very quickly lose its viability.

This post clearly indicates that I do INDEED have a risk, yet I have been told I didn't have a risk even if I was uncut. What does the poster mean by "quickly"? Precum doesn't dry in a matter of seconds when exposed to air so that would still render it infectious right? I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything or a nuisance, but I'm just curious and scared!

I have never had a problem with my foreskin infection wise, would this decrease the chances of me contracting HIV? This anxiety is too much for me! After this it's NO MORE SEXUAL ANYTHING! I never knew sexual contact, penetrative or not can be so dangerous!

The worst part is that I can't test yet, gotta wait 2 weeks till the 6 week benchmark then again for the 12 week benchmark! I can barely sleep, HIV is all that is on my mind! Even when I study that's all I can think of, it's gonna be a rough wait isn't there another way?

I'm sorry I rambled off a bit. I know this is not subsitute for counseling I'm just freaking out though!

We cannot account for the information posted on other websites. We can only vouch for the information here on our own site. And that information is drawn from peer reviewed scientific sources, it is then reviewed by an editorial board of HIV experts before being transformed into lessons by experienced HIV educators.

Check out our Welcome Thread and follow the links to our lessons on HIV transmission. It's all written up in there.

Quote

Then after reading this I saw a post on this very forum that bothered me. On most replies in the forum it has been repeated alot that frottage and mutual masturbation is not a risk for hiv no matter what twist are put on it, but does that apply to uncut penises? This worried me:

"As I said, HIV is not easily transmitted. It's a fragile virus.

In all but a miniscule number questionable cases, it occurs through either vaginal or anal intercourse. For it to get into your pee hole, it has to be open and exposed for more than the kind of brief period you have described. As far as the receptivity of the glans, it's an uncircumciised guy who is at risk. Even if you are uncircumcised, and IF the guy is HIV+, the semen hitting the air would very quickly lose its viability.

Horseshit. You're reading that all wrong. Your anxiety is driving you to find the answers you want, rather than to accept the facts as they are.

We have explained to you that you were not at risk from the rather banal frottage exchange in your OP. We have explained why. If you will not or cannot accept our answers to your questions, that's your lookout.

But understand this, you will not be allowed to post endlessly about non-risk situations. Nor will you be permitted to quote mine other threads in an attempt to feed the HIV phobia monster that's currently residing between your ears.

So cut the crap, read our Welcome Thread and familiarise yourself with the posting guidelines or you may well find yourself dealing with an irritated Moderator.

If your anxiety is as bad as you say it is your best bet would be to see a counsellor. We cannot provide you with that kind of support.

What worried me about the sore throat is that I was taking vitamins B-complex, C , throat and cold drops, and calcium to prevent getting sick, because a girl at work got sick, and others were getting sick with fatigue in sore throats. So I as mostly trying to prevent the sore throat, so it shouldn't have happened should it? Okay so I have two other situations.

One (about 5.5 weeks ago) was where I met with this older guy. I didn't go there specifically for anything sexual however (it was a public place don't really feel like going into details ), but I ended up (much to my own fault of course) recieving a blow job from him. While doing that, he also fingered my anus. My worry is that what if there was blood in his mouth, assuming he was positive, and that the motion of my penis in his mouth massaged the blood into my foreskin, causing HIV infection. I am also worried that he had precum on his fingers while fingering me, and precum went inside my anus thus infecting me. Does that not count as penetration?

Another incident (about 3 weeks ago) , I was in a steam room and this guy and I jacked off, and then jacked off each other. If there was precum on his fingers and he jacked me off, could that have transmitted hiv more efficiently due to the high temperature in the steam room?

The main reason I am posting again is because I got this dry scaly spot on the back of my neck and I'm afraid it an ARS rash. At first I thought it was ringworm, then I thought maybe it was a burn. It lasted for about 3 to 4 days and has mostly went away. Does this look like anything associated with the ARS rash (copy and paste)?

file:///C:/Users/Raynardo/Pictures/Random%20photos/100_0039.JPG

file:///C:/Users/Raynardo/Pictures/Random%20photos/100_0043.JPG - the second one was after i put lotion on it

Is this even a rash?

I know you guys probably don't care, but due to all this I am now entering into a commitment of celibacy, so don't think this behavior is ''chronic''.

For a start, taking the supplements you mention has never been conclusively proven to prevent getting colds and sore throats. If everyone around you was coming down with this bug, there's no logical reason to think that your illness was anything different to theirs.

Nothing you report is a risk for hiv infection. Mutual masturbation is not a risk for hiv infection and neither is fingering of any sort, regardless of the presence or absence of precum.

Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that is primarily transmitted INSIDE the human body as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse where the virus never leaves the confines of the two bodies. Once hiv finds itself outside the body, small changes in temperature and pH and moisture levels all quickly damage the virus and render it unable to infect.

Getting a blowjob is also not a risk for hiv infection. Not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. Unless you're in the habit of repeatedly punching a person in the mouth before they blow you, there could not possibly be enough blood present to pose a problem. No way.

The rash that SOMETIMES accompanies hiv seroconversion is not raised or scaly and it does not itch or burn. If you didn't see it, you'd have no idea it was there.

You did not have a risk and you do not need to test over these latest concerns.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I know you guys told me I had no risk but...well, I still got up and went for a rapid hiv test, which came back negative. I got a blood test done also, but haven't been to pick up the results because I'm sure it's negative (read on). Unfortunately not too long after that I had another incident, and this is an actual risk. I went to this guy's house I met online where we were supposed to be just watching a movie, but that's not all we did. We ended up having intercourse after I stupidly agreed to it (which I take full responsiblility for this, as I did meet him online though I took condoms just in case). We went once protected with a condom...everything went fine. We finished, I took the condom off after intercourse and it was done. Then we went a second time, this time I used one of the condoms that I brought. I put it on and I thought everything was going fine until I finished, I noticed the condom was NOT THERE. It turns out that sometime during intercourse, the condom got stuck up inside him. I remember feeling some ''wetness'' at some time roughly about 60% through the 2nd intercourse but it did not occur to me that it was the condom slipping off. When I pulled out and saw no condom I was horrified. Here I am trying to be safe and it backfires. I know I need to control my sexual behaviour and know how to use condoms, so please don't lecture me on that.

So I left and started to frantically call places requesting PEP but nowhere was open. I also was trying to find a place that could do PCR testing but they said I had to wait 72 hours and on top of that it was about 250$. So after about 36 hours of pacing and worrying I finally went to the Emergency Room. I first saw a nurse who said that he would have to do an hiv test 1st to make a baseline for prescribing Meds. So he drew blood for the test and said it would take about 5 to 7 days. (which came back negative-these results actually came back before the health department's blood work which is why I didn't go pick up the blood work from the health department, this is in addition to the fact that it came up negative with the rapid hiv test at the health department) Which doesn't make sense considering that I went there to PREVENT becoming completely infected before it was too late. I have the strange feeling he didn't know what he was talking about. He also told me that the meds are very expensive, and that the virus can lie dormant for many years before coming up on a test, basically this didn't help me much. So, I talked to the doctor and he asked me rather I was the insertive or receptive partner. I told him I was the insertive one/top, and he asked me if the guy was a confirmed hiv positive person, and I told him that he (the guy) told me he was negative, but I was worried that he may have lied or been in a window period. I wish I just would have lied about that now so I could get the meds, because he ended up not prescribing me anything. Perhaps if I mentioned I was uncut he would have given it to me. It kind of pisses me off because I see online where all these people got PEP for extremely low risk situations yet I had a situation that I think was fairly high given the circumstances yet he denied it to me. He told me to follow up with another HIV test in 6 weeks @ the health department and to "watch my sexual behavior". He also said he isn't prescribing because he thought the chance I contracted everything was too slim. So I left with nothing but a big ER bill and all this has me angry with myself. I asked the guy about his status and of course he said he was negative, but this really doesn't mean much to me. Afterward he told me he had a boyfriend and that they hookup outside the relationship every now and then, yet he says I have nothing to worry about. This was after the 72 hour PEP period and I feel if he told me this BEFORE I could have probably qualified for the damn meds. Of course this is all my fault for not asking but this scenario would never had even crossed my mind . I never knew people did this type of things so often and the fact that I was putting myself in such great danger out of shear stupidity. I don't think I really trust condoms anymore I dont understand why it slipped off, I must have used it wrong but I dont know how.

I've been trying to find places where I can get PCR testing done but can't find anywhere cheap enough. I can't believe I have to go through this shit again, and the thing is that, aside from abstinence, I did pretty much everything I could to prevent getting infected. (condoms, seeking pep). I thought I was being smart and careful but with this incident, and I doubt that guy even knows his status at all, the odds are against me. I've heard that the risk for a single episode of unprotected sex is low but I know that this really doesn't mean much, as people have been infected from one episode especially when the other person is in the window period.

I also must add that exactly two weeks after I got a minor sore throat, and a head cold that lasted for about two days. I have had congestion in my chest and sinuses on and off. I have not had a fever (still around 97.6 average). So I could be experiencing symptoms.

I also must add that exactly two weeks after I got a minor sore throat, and a head cold that lasted for about two days. I have had congestion in my chest and sinuses on and off. I have not had a fever (still around 97.6 average). So I could be experiencing symptoms.

Not from HIV you can't HIV is spread in very specific environments under very specific conditions. You do not get HIV from frottage. Period.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Not from HIV you can't HIV is spread in very specific environments under very specific conditions. You do not get HIV from frottage. Period.

Um, this is from the second incident which is described in detail above the post you just replied to. It's reply #14. The second one about the slipped condom. I was going to start a new thread but I know you guys don't like that.

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 Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

OH-MY-GOD....I HAVE A NEW SITUATION IF YOU GUYS WOULD PLEASE READ REPLY #14, THIS JUST HAPPENED RECENTLY. THIS IS NOT RELATED TO THE FROTTAGE/RUBBING NO RISK SITUATION. THE NEGATIVE RESULT WAS FOR THE FIRST SITUATION, NOT THE RECENT ONE. (REPLY #14).

I ACTUALLY HAD A RISK HERE UNLIKE THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD, PLEASE READ REPLY #14 POSTED AT 8:59 YESTERDAY .

I agree that you did not need PEP for what happened. PEP is really only warranted when a person has been the receptive partner in unprotected intercourse where the insertive partner is known to be hiv positive. Just because some people get PEP for a low or no risk situation doesn't make it right. The same goes for PCR testing. You don't need that either.

Your risk, as the insertive partner, is very much on the lower end of the scale and it would be unusual and unfortunate if you ended up poz over this.

When you're using a condom as the insertive partner, you need to check it periodically to make sure it's still on. All you have to do is reach down and feel. Also, when you withdraw, you need to hold on to the base to make sure you don't leave it behind. It's very common for the condom to slip off as you withdraw. If the condom was hanging out of your partner, that's most likely what happened. If it came off sometime during the act, it would be shoved up inside and not visible from the outside.

All you need to do is take an antibody test. The earliest you should test is at six weeks. The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. A six week negative result is highly unlikely to change, but must be confirmed at the three month point.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thank you Ann. Just for clarification though, I did check the condom quite frequently, it's just that the condom got stuck up inside the guy sometimes between the point in which I checked it last and the end of intercourse (when i noticed it was gone). So yeah, unfortunately the condom slipped off during intercourse. (Upon realizing this he frantically ran to the bathroom to get it out because it was not visible).The whole thing lasted about 7 minutes and I suspect the condom came off about half way through, when I started to have a wet feeling. Unfortunately it did not click in my head that the condom may have popped or slipped off.

I know you guys can't tell me my status and can only help so much. I really appreciate the patience from most of you guys. I really dont like to seem like a pest, and I really apologize for doing so.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I was recently trying to figure out why my scalp is so dry and I ran across the information that I may have psoriasis. Also, i recently went to the doctor for the spot on my neck and he told me to use a cream on it, it's kinda of going away. But he said that my dry scalp may be ringworm, psoriasis, or eczema, but not cancer (which is what i thought it was).

MY QUESTION IS: I have heard that having an autoimmune disorder can prevent an accurate result on an hiv test. PSORIASIS IS AN AUTOIMMUNE DISORDER. I may have psoriasis, as I have been having an overly dry scalp for years. Does this mean my past hiv test could have been inaccurate? Does this alter the window period for me?

Autoimmune diseases tend to cause false positive results, not false negative. If you do get a false positive result due to an autoimmune problem, it will be proved false when you have the Western Blot test done.

Lots of people have dry scalps for no apparent reason. Try Head and Shoulders.

I still do not expect you to test positive over this brief insertive incident.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

My test will be taken in 28 days at the 13 week mark. Recently went to the doctor for the (ringworm?) on the back of my neck that hasn't gone away in months and he prescribed me a steroid. He also prescribed me eyedrops for my eyes. I don't know if these are steroids or not. My question is would taken these steroids/antibiotic medications affect my hiv test?

One more question (I'm sorry). This is concerning my incident in October that I have posted about due to a condom that slipped off. I store condoms in a drawer(spelling) in a room in my apartment. Is that an OK place to store them? The condom that I used was in my pocket for a while also, probably about 2 and a half hours. I hear that you cannot store condoms in pockets. Was I still protected until the moment it slipped off? Do you think that maybe was why it slipped off? It didn't look damaged when I took it out the wrapper but I'm just making sure.

One more question: What is the likelyhood that psoriasis WOULD cause a false positive? High or low?

Last question: Is there any way I could give a donation? I would like to do that when I get my finances and medical bills in order.

. This is concerning my incident in October that I have posted about due to a condom that slipped off. I store condoms in a drawer(spelling) in a room in my apartment. Is that an OK place to store them? The condom that I used was in my pocket for a while also, probably about 2 and a half hours. I hear that you cannot store condoms in pockets. Was I still protected until the moment it slipped off? Do you think that maybe was why it slipped off? It didn't look damaged when I took it out the wrapper but I'm just making sure.

Last question: Is there any way I could give a donation? I would like to do that when I get my finances and medical bills in order.

Have you ever bothered to read through the condom and lube links in my signature line? There is storage information in them. Keeping them in a drawer is fine. You can also keep them in a pocket for short periods - say perhaps putting one in your pocket when you go out for the evening and removing it when you get home if it has not been put to use. Keeping them in your car is an absolute no-no, unless it is for a very short period of time when the outdoor temperatures are mild. Exposure to extreme cold can also affect latex.

Condoms need to be stored at room temperature when they're being stored for long periods of time as heat will hasten latex degradation. Don't put one in your wallet and expect to keep it there for weeks next to your ass-cheek. As I said before, one night is fine, more than that is dodgy.

Personally, I keep a few in an outer pocket of my winter jacket and a few in my handbag in summer. The rest are stored in a drawer in my bedroom. You also need to make sure your condoms are in-date. Extreme temperature is not the only thing that will degrade latex - so will time.

And of course you were protected until you lost the condom. When condoms break due to being exposed to heat, freezing cold or from being old, they kinda disintegrate. Have you ever tried to blow up an old balloon that you found lying forgotten in a drawer? They crumble. So do condoms. Old or heat-affected condoms also tend to feel sticky, as opposed to slippery like a new one feels.

The simplest way you can contribute to this website is by clicking on the ads that appear here. And thank you for doing so. You don't have to buy anything, just click.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Recently I have started running again after about a month of inactivity. After cardio exercize the other day I was shocked to see that when I went to the bathroom to urinate, I was urinating some blood! This only happens after I do some running. I went to the doctor where I had a urinalysis done and he said that although I could not see blood in that urine sample, there was microscopic blood cells in there. He said that sometimes this happens to runners, but still told me to return.

My question is: He said that they found red blood cells but no white bloods cells, which rules out infection of some sort. Would seroconverting with hiv cause my white blood cells to not attend to the that area if I DO have an infection? Could this be why they found no white blood cells? I apologize for being annoying.

There is nothing in the symptoms you present that in ANY WAY point to HIV infection.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Right now you are continuing to misinterpret everything that happens (or doesn't happen) with your body as yes ANOTHER SIGN of HIV! All to no good or accurate purpoise of course.

As you have been told you had a low level risk when the condom slipped off that one time at some point during intercourse. That is a not uncommon happening and I can't think of a single time that anyone reporting that kind of accident ever having resulted in the person testing positive. So I do expect you to test negative at 13 weeks.

You seem to have a high level of anxiety around your sexual experiences. Rather than returning here repeatedly with your latest "symptoms" and worries, you might consider sitting down with a therapist or other professional to discuss this so that your sex life won't be so fraught with worrying.

I am getting tested next week. In regards to this, I have a few remaining questions:

1. I have heard that the Rapid HIV tests are not as accurate as the traditional ELISA. I will be getting the Rapid Oral Swab test. Is this test alright for a conclusive result or should I get a blood test done? I've been looking up online about reports of these rapid oral tests having a high rate of false positives AND negatives. I don't know if they fixed this problem or not, but I've just been wondering if a Rapid Oraquick oral swab test is rapid enough?

2. Can ARS happen as ate as the 12th week? I had a slightly sore throat with difficult (but not painful) swallowing. One of the glands in my neck were also swollen, but I don't know if it was a lymph node or a salivary gand because it kind of hurt when i drew spit from my neck. My temperature got up to 99 degrees one night. I took some tylenol and the next day it (the fever) was gone. The fever did not return (it lasted about 12 hours) but the swelling in my neck took about 5 days to go away. I also had some small slightly itchy bumps (about 6 of them in a line) on part of my stomach during this time, but I also tried some new soap, they also went away. I didn't go to the doctor because I am fine now. Does this sound like ARS? I know ARS happens earlier usually but it seems my symptoms seemed to mimic ARS, although they were late and brief. Are there any reports of ARS happening around the 11th or 12th week?

3. My friend says that he has poz friends that never test positive on blood tests, so anyone could have it and not know it. How is this possible? He also said that the oral rapid tests are not as accurate, and recommended I get the blood test done as well. Should I follow his recommendations, or even believe him? I don't understand how one could be poz if they have it but never test poz ?

3. Your friend may be confusing undetectable viral load tests with negative antibody results. Anyone who is hiv positive will test positive on the antibody tests, but it is possible to have an undetectable viral load, with or without meds.

If you do not trust the rapid tests, by all means put your mind at ease and get a blood test. Either way, I fully expect you to test negative.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thanks for the responses guys. I really appreciate you guys being so patient with me. I would have gone been almost bonkers by now if it weren't for you guys lol! I have plans to get tested Tuesday after the doctor's appointment I have and after my class after that. I am going in to have a cystoscopy and they are giving me some type of drug to make me more comfortable during the procedure. I was wondering if this drug/anesthesia would affect the result of a rapid hiv test?

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Okay so I went to get tested today. I was going to get the Oraquick swab at a different clinic, but due to a shortage of time I chose to go to a center just off campus, which was a bit closer than where I was initially going. The doctor initially looked at me weird because it's more of a woman's reproductive center, but when I told her I just wanted an HIV test she agreed to test me, as they test men and women. The clinic used the Clearview HIV 1/2 STAT-PAK assay. It is the rapid test where they prick your finger and use a drop of your blood. The resuts were available in 15 minutes. It turned out negative! However, the woman said that since I was testing over a specific incidence that I should repeat the test 4-6 MONTHS AFTER the 13 week window period! I have never heard such an extended period before. What made it more confusing is that I was given a slip of paper from the company that makes the Clearview assay and they said themeselves that if I have not been in a situation where HIV could be transmitted in the last past three months, a NEGATIVE test result means you were not infected with hiv at the time of testing.. My questions are: 1. Is the rapid Clearview HIV 1/2 STAT-PAK assay a pretty good test for HIV diagnosis? Is it as good as the Oraquick/Orasure (not sure what it is called)?2. Why would the woman recommend retesting at such an extended time period? I've heard six months before, but she said 4 to 6 months later than today's date. That would mean I would be testing at the 7 to 9 months benchmark. I've never heard this before! It's especially confusing because on the brochure that came with the Clearview it said that if I had not been in a situation that could pass on HIV in the last 3 months then I am not infected. I left the clinic happier but a bit confused? 3. In November I engaged with frottage, deep kissing, and recieved a blow job from a guy. (that's all we did because I was too scared to do anything else due to my situation-the condom slippage incidence) No sexual activity since. From coming here over the few months, I suspect that these activites were not a risk right?This would not have been a situation that could have passed on HIV, so the only thing I need to worry about is the condom slippage incident correct because that's what I have gathered from coming here right? So my test result is accurate and the only risk I had was the condom slippage incident, which I have tested negative for because there has been no pentrative sex since the condom incident?

Edit: I'm sorry for the pink color in number 2. I didn't know it was going to be to hard to see. Just highlight it if you have trouble.

So I met up with an old friend and we had sex. A condom was used, but since there wasn't any lube he rubbed some lotion around his anus. I, however, didn't realize this until after we had began. ( I didn't see him apply the lotion but noticed the white cream on the condom while engaging. The condom did not break to my knowledge (I didn't feel anything different), but I didn't get a chance to examine it thourougly when I pulled out because he pulled it off (didn't notice any rips when he did pull it off but still didn't examine it THOUROUGLY) and refused to let me see it. I got really pissed and he just left (with the condom). He knows I'm a big worrier so I know he did this to mess with me.

I have been reading online that lotion makes little microscopic holes in the condom and that's what I'm afraid of. Is this true? Does it make little microscopic holes or does it just degrade the latex to the point of breaking? I know you're only supposed to use water-based lubes.

YOU wore the condom and if it had broken, YOU would have known. Like Rod says, when condoms break they do so in a very obvious way. It would have been hanging off your penis like a fringe.

The microscopic holes in condoms thing is an urban myth mainly put about by the Catholic Church who don't want you to use condoms (let alone have man-on-man sex) and will do or say anything to scare you away from them. Do yourself a favour and don't listen to the myth-makers.

As the insertive partner, there should not be any opportunity for your bottom to get a hold of the condom before you. Why? Because ANY time you withdraw, even just to change positions, you should be holding on to the base of the condom so you don't leave it behind in the other person's body. If you're already holding on to the condom, your bottom would not be able to snatch it away from you to play games with your head. Remember that in future.

By the way, if you'd ever bothered to read the condom and lube links in my signature line, you'd know that holding the condom while you withdraw is a fundamental part of correct condom usage. Get reading - including re-reading your entire thread.

I've told you about holding on to the condom previously and I've also told you about the links in my signature line. It's time you took on board what we're trying to teach you and put it to use in your life. We're not here to hold your hand every time you get scared when having sex.

You have not had a risk for hiv infection. Your condom did not break. If it had, you would have known.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

YOU wore the condom and if it had broken, YOU would have known. Like Rod says, when condoms break they do so in a very obvious way. It would have been hanging off your penis like a fringe.

The microscopic holes in condoms thing is an urban myth mainly put about by the Catholic Church who don't want you to use condoms (let alone have man-on-man sex) and will do or say anything to scare you away from them. Do yourself a favour and don't listen to the myth-makers.

As the insertive partner, there should not be any opportunity for your bottom to get a hold of the condom before you. Why? Because ANY time you withdraw, even just to change positions, you should be holding on to the base of the condom so you don't leave it behind in the other person's body. If you're already holding on to the condom, your bottom would not be able to snatch it away from you to play games with your head. Remember that in future.

By the way, if you'd ever bothered to read the condom and lube links in my signature line, you'd know that holding the condom while you withdraw is a fundamental part of correct condom usage. Get reading - including re-reading your entire thread.

I've told you about holding on to the condom previously and I've also told you about the links in my signature line. It's time you took on board what we're trying to teach you and put it to use in your life. We're not here to hold your hand every time you get scared when having sex.

You have not had a risk for hiv infection. Your condom did not break. If it had, you would have known.

Ann

Just for clarification, I was holding the condom when withdrawing, I just didn't take it off. After I let go of it he pulled it off, that's how he got it. I was just concerned about the lotion making holes in it that allow hiv to pass WITHOUT the condom completely breaking, but from what I gather here lotion just weakens the condom making it easier to break, and the holes it gets in it but still staying intact due to lotion is a myth (in terms of hiv anyway). I know you're suppose to use a water-base lube and I blame myself for this incident (although I was not aware until after the fact) and the annoyance I have caused you. At this time, I am about to go read through your condom and lube links again. This should be my last post.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Okay last two questions, just about prevention. I brought Durex Performax condoms and it has a climax control lubricant in the condom which is semi-solid and white. Is this safe for the condom? As it looks like lotion although it kind of melts away eventually? And if someone ejaculates in your belly button or on an inflamed hair follicle, that is still no risk correct?

The condoms are A-OK. You need to know that you should also be using another lube, particularly for anal intercourse. Did you read through the condom and lube links in my signature line like I asked you to? If not, get reading.

Getting ejaculated on, on any part of your body, is not a risk for hiv infection. It's only a risk if the ejaculate is INSIDE your anus or vagina.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

The condoms are A-OK. You need to know that you should also be using another lube, particularly for anal intercourse. Did you read through the condom and lube links in my signature line like I asked you to? If not, get reading.

Getting ejaculated on, on any part of your body, is not a risk for hiv infection. It's only a risk if the ejaculate is INSIDE your anus or vagina.

Ann

Yes, and I use additional lube on the condom as well, I use ForPlay gel. I just wanted to know if the delay lube in the durex performax was okay, and thank you for answering.

Hello again. I have another situation. Today on campus the health department came to the school and did free oraquick swab test. I have just got out of a relationship, and we ALWAYS used protection except one time when the condom broke when I was the bottom. He did not ejaculate yet (BUT PRECUM WAS PROBABLY PRESENT) and this was in mid-early July. We used plently of silicone based lube, but the condom was a thinner brand of condom, which is why it broke I guess. I have since dedicated myself to using Extra Strength condoms. Before that in late April or early May, I got a blow job from a guy I'm pretty sure was poz (he had a red ribbon tattoo on his arm. Also, the event that led to, but did not cause my breakup with my last partner was that I fooled around with a few guys in a locker room. We all jacked each other off (me and about 4 other guys). I had some nicks on my hands but I think they were healed? I went outside the relationship, but the whole time together I KNOW he didn't. Anyway here is what happened:

1. My oral swab test came back "weakly positive" with a faint line. Apparently, it showed up quite fast. She said that this meant that I am preliminary positive. She asked me if I had any auto-immune conditions or have been sick recently, and also asked what symptoms I have had suggestive of ARS. I have been having a rather odd occurrence of mouth ulcers all the sudden, with one big one on my upper gums that came and went, and two more inside my mouth. I also got this odd rash on my upper arm, but I can't tell if it was a rash or a scrape. It didn't start to itch until I noticed it. It was on my upper arm and seemed to scar over. Also, I have had various sore throats throats the last three months. I'm just telling you what I told her. I know you guys always say that symptoms don't mean anything but I think this may be relevant this time. She took two vials afterwards, one for syphillis and one for what I assume to be the Western Blot. I was shocked at how calm I was when I got the result...it's weird I haven't shed a tear yet.

2. Being the anxious person I am though, I went to a nearby clinic where I usually get my HIV test and explained my situation. This test was the Clearview HIV Stat Pack. It is also a rapid one. The woman was SO kind there and actually went to get the book and went over the test stats with me (specificity, sensitivity, etc). But between the time she pricked my finger and put the blood into the little whole it goes in, she went over some things and THEN put the drops in the test. This test, however, the rapid blood test, came back NEGATIVE.

3. My ex and I got tested rather closely together back in June (like 2 days apart) and we both were negative. I think it was 3 months since his last unprotected encounter before this hiv test in june but I don't know how relevant it is to the situation. He said he was going to get tested soon.

So here are my questions:

1.The condom busting incident was about 12 weeks and 1 day ago. Some places say 13 weeks is conclusive while others say 13 weeks. Would this 6 day discrepancy make a difference?

2. If you get a positive on one test and a negative on one test, does that mean that you are more than likely positive?

3. Are the HIV blood test more accurate than the oral swabs?

4. Between the time she put the drop of blood in the test and the time she put the 3 drops in (about 60 to 90 seconds at most), would this have caused the test to be inaccurate, and yield a false negative? Also, the orasure takes 20 minutes, and the clearview takes 15 minutes. Is one more accurate because of this? She said that if you don't read the results on the Clearview within 20 minutes then a line will show up (something about the test sitting for a while) so it's important to read the results fast.

5. Should I assume that I am positive until my WB comes back, or should I not worry about this? The ex and the woman at the other testing site said I shouldn't worry about it but I can't help it because I think the WB will come back positive.

6. If I got a rapid test positive result, if I took another one later the same day considering it was done right, would it had been positive too if I was truly positive?

7. Can things like herpes ( I suspect the red lesion on my cheek may have been an internal cold sore) cross-react to cause a false positive?

8. When one test positive on one test, and negative on another, what is the likelihood that their WB will come out positive?

9. If I am truly negative, should I test again in 6 days because 12 weeks and one day is not 13 weeks?

I'm sorry if I'm being redundant and repetitive, I'm sure you guys are tired of seeing me here. I apologize. I just have nobody else knowledgeable on the subject to talk to.