Office UI - New Licensing Story

Description

This is an interesting video for Channel 9.

As many geeks know, the Office team at Microsoft is the team that typically sets the standard for UIs throughout our company, and then the industry beyond. It's where the experimentation takes place. It's like the Area 51 of UI workshops.

In this video, we get to learn about new licensing rules surrounding the Office UI elements. In the past, developers were confused as to how far they could go when it came to using Office-like UIs in their apps. The goal of the new licensing is to clear that
up.

We also chatted a bit about Office and the way they had to work to innovate. As applications become more complex, they're putting a real strain on the interface elements we're all used to. The team has been working hard to come up with new ways of working with
these complex apps. The "Ribbon" control is one such innovation.

Finally, there's a lawyer in this video. If you've ever wanted to see an interview with a Microsoft lawyer, this is your chance

I can assure you that the Visual Studio team is thinking about how and when to do this...but it never hurts for them to have more customer input to guide their decisions. In the meantime, we do have a set of component vendors who have already signed up
to build Office 2007 UI controls. From the bottom of
https://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2006/nov06/11-21officeui.mspx (this includes some ISVs as well):

Nice job folks. That makes a lot of sense to me. I agree with Cyonix however. MS needs common ribbon control in VS. Don't want to wait 2 years for 3rd party and pay another 600 for it. That would seem to be the easiest way to get standards going as
I assume your own controls would comply. That said, I also assume you are working on just that.

I'm curious to know if the royalty-free license will extend once the ribbon UI is implemented across other Microsoft products (e.g, Dynamics). It makes sense to protect the Office competition, but if I put the ribbon in a CRM product will I lose the license
if it competes with another Microsoft product with the ribbon in it?

What a bunch of BS. Microsoft can no more license the look and feel of thier UI than Ford can license the look and feel of the GT. You can license the icons, you can license the code; you can't simply state this layout belongs to me and anyone who wants this
layout needs my license.

For about 10k I can by a 3rd party shell to fit on a car chasis that will make my car look like a Ford GT. I have no love for the Open Office crowd, but I hope to God they release a ribbon just to challenge you guys on this draconian and absurd move.

﻿
What a bunch of BS. Microsoft can no more license the look and feel of thier UI than Ford can license the look and feel of the GT. You can license the icons, you can license the code; you can't simply state this layout belongs to me and anyone who wants this
layout needs my license.

For about 10k I can by a 3rd party shell to fit on a car chasis that will make my car look like a Ford GT. I have no love for the Open Office crowd, but I hope to God they release a ribbon just to challenge you guys on this draconian and absurd move.

Paul D. Murphy wrote:﻿
What a bunch of BS. Microsoft can no more license the look and feel of thier UI than Ford can license the look and feel of the GT. You can license the icons, you can license the code; you can't simply state this layout belongs to me and anyone who wants this
layout needs my license.

For about 10k I can by a 3rd party shell to fit on a car chasis that will make my car look like a Ford GT. I have no love for the Open Office crowd, but I hope to God they release a ribbon just to challenge you guys on this draconian and absurd move.

I'm a big Microsoft fan, but this is nonsense.

Paul

IIRC, yes you can. Apple does it, MS does it, you can do it.

You are just flat wrong dude. You can license code. You can license copy. You can license icons. You can license all kinds of things that are tangible. You can't simply say 'blue tabs belong to me' so sign my license if you want blue tabs.

The whole program is designed to license the document describing the design guildelines. This is fine. Microsoft can license thier guidelines all day long. That doesn't preclude me from making a ribbon like control that looks, feels and operates exactly like
the ribbon found in office. By agreeing to the guildelines, I would put myself on the legal bubble with Microsoft. I am free to not license the guidelines and build ribbons till I'm blue in the face so long as my code doesn't violate any patent or copyright
held by Microsoft.

It sounds like Microsoft is trying to say "we own anything that looks or feels like a Ribbon" which they can't do. If you want to make a ribbon go ahead. If you want to make a ribbon and put it onto a word processor that you wrote go ahead. Unless you infringing
on Microsoft patents or thier copyright you are free to do that.

When is this coming? How much is it costing? It's free! Sounds very cool to give us this stuff. Should be included in Visual Studio! Really. Everybody should have the right to use the controls. There is so much thirth party recreating
all the controls from Microsoft, but they always feel different. Would be great, if we could get more such controls, also from Vista!

For example the search box that is used in Vista! That would be great stuff.

Paul D. Murphy wrote:﻿
What a bunch of BS. Microsoft can no more license the look and feel of thier UI than Ford can license the look and feel of the GT. You can license the icons, you can license the code; you can't simply state this layout belongs to me and anyone who wants this
layout needs my license.

For about 10k I can by a 3rd party shell to fit on a car chasis that will make my car look like a Ford GT. I have no love for the Open Office crowd, but I hope to God they release a ribbon just to challenge you guys on this draconian and absurd move.

I'm a big Microsoft fan, but this is nonsense.

Paul

IIRC, yes you can. Apple does it, MS does it, you can do it.

You are just flat wrong dude. You can license code. You can license copy. You can license icons. You can license all kinds of things that are tangible. You can't simply say 'blue tabs belong to me' so sign my license if you want blue tabs.

I'm willing to bet that those represent patents on the ribbon interface. I wouldn't be surprised if all but one or two are for various aspects of the ribbon. The ribbon is definitely a patentable idea, so it makes sense that MSFT owns IP on this.

You are just flat wrong dude. You can license code. You can license copy. You can license icons. You can license all kinds of things that are tangible. You can't simply say 'blue tabs belong to me' so sign my license if you want blue tabs.

The whole program is designed to license the document describing the design guildelines. This is fine. Microsoft can license thier guidelines all day long. That doesn't preclude me from making a ribbon like control that looks, feels and operates exactly like
the ribbon found in office. By agreeing to the guildelines, I would put myself on the legal bubble with Microsoft. I am free to not license the guidelines and build ribbons till I'm blue in the face so long as my code doesn't violate any patent or copyright
held by Microsoft.

It sounds like Microsoft is trying to say "we own anything that looks or feels like a Ribbon" which they can't do. If you want to make a ribbon go ahead. If you want to make a ribbon and put it onto a word processor that you wrote go ahead. Unless you infringing
on Microsoft patents or thier copyright you are free to do that.

Microsoft is framing the licensing of some guildelines as if that carries the same weight as licensing the actual IP (the code, copy and art used in a ribbon). It doesn't.

I am no lawyer, but a simple search turns up many things that seem to counter what you are saying. Speaking of "Tabs", Adobe already has that one. By my read, if you make a ribbon bar "virtually identical" to MS's, that could be a patent violation (if they
have one). And, imo, it is different enouph from anything before, that they would win (and the fact they have a million layers). But the point seems mute, because they are giving everyone an out to avoid all the madness.

well.. to make myself a bit more unwanted around these here parts i have to admit that to me this is all about preventing some of the competing office suites like openoffice to mimic the look and feel of ms office.. which is what they used to do if we're
honest for a second.
good? bad? i tend to think the latter is true.

a short an inacurate post.. but these are my first sentiments towards this issue.. it just looks weird to customers.

Jensen Harris (the GPM in this video) has what I consider one of the best blogs out there. He covers the full life of the Ribbon, with excellent explanations of the features, and why they came about. Check it out here,

I am no lawyer, but a simple search turns up many things that seem to counter what you are saying. Speaking of "Tabs", Adobe already has that one. By my read, if you make a ribbon bar "virtually identical" to MS's, that could be a patent violation (if they
have one). And, imo, it is different enouph from anything before, that they would win (and the fact they have a million layers). But the point seems mute, because they are giving everyone an out to avoid all the madness.

Wow, I can't believe that I have to sign a seperate legal agreement with MS even when I use design guideline compliant controls from a third party like Dotnetbar. Free agreement or not, intentional or not, this says loud and clear MS self-interests are more
important than it's customers and that we can't be trusted.

What's interesting is that you could get close to the office 2007 ribbon using existing controls available in most all GUI's. The idea that Microsoft somehow now owns tabbed groups of toolbar buttons with the name "ribbon" is silly. I've done tabbed groups
of toolbar image/text buttons numerous times in the past in my own applications. This is NOT a new invention. 3D Studio Max has had tabbed toolbars for a long time. There are some additional frill features that Office 2007 ribbon has, like collapsing, scaling, etc,
but that once again can be quickly added to controls already in the wild. What you won't get easily though, is the exact look and feel of the office 2007 ribbon, but that will probably not be that important in competing products like OpenOffice. There is
no reason why OpenOffice couldn't implement tabbed toolbars with their own look, without being accused of copying the ribbon control, because there was already prior art for tabbed toolbars. I look forward to hearing who it is Microsoft thinks they can prosecute
for doing something similiar, but not "exactly" like the "new" ribbon control. [6]

> sounds like Microsoft is trying to say "we own anything that looks or feels like a Ribbon" which they can't do

I agree. The ribbon looks and functions alot like a tabbed toolbar, which was clearly implemented prior. MS did not invent this concept, they, as usual, enhanced prior art and then claimed it as their own. On top of that they turn around and discourage others
from doing the same with the ribbon control. In the video they actually talk about not allowing others to "enhance" the Office 2007 controls. Say what? MS can improve upon what others have come up with, but we can't improve upon what MS has came up with?
Do as MS says, not as they do? That sound fair? Not to me.

Its clear to me that Microsoft spent a lot of time and money developing this UI. It seems probable that one or more patents or copyrights owned by Microsoft would apply and be valid. I've certainly never seen something like it.

Since the license is free, and the only things you really have to agree with are (roughly speaking):

1. you aren't directly competing with Office 2007 products and
2. if you're going to use this UI, do a good job of it.

it seems quite reasonable.

If you want to make money cloning Office 2007, you'll have to take the risk that Microsoft will attempt to enforce its IP rights. If, as some have argued, this is prior art and invalid, you'll have a good argument. On the other hand, if you're just using
the Office 2007 to make your application look cool and seem to be part of the Office suite, Microsoft has given you a way to do with without running the risk of violating their IP.

The license is voluntary. Your position without signing it is exactly the same as it would have been if Microsoft never offered the program. The only thing the program does (and I, for one, appreciate it) is make it safe to use that UI without fear that you
are violating Microsoft's IP. I suspect there are many companies out there who's legal departments have told them they can't use that UI for fear of lawsuits. This gives those companies a way to do so safely.

I hope that fancier versions of tabbed toolbars with some style changes like gradient colors, collapsing, etc, are not what MS thinks they can go after. If Open Office adds distinct looking tabbed toolbars I certainly hope MS doesn't attempt to claim ownership
of this concept.

Bottom line is MS is an intimidating enough force, and MS Office market penetration is deep enough, to get most everyone to sign the Office 2007 UI agreement. It has in large part become a me-too affair.