Here is the best video I've found of the actual video of the shooting of the dude assaulting the police officer. As I understand it, it was 9mm. We have no way of knowing shot placement or type of bullet used, but it's at least a little disturbing to me that dude barely reacted at all to the first two shots. This is what we saw in the Moros Tribesmen that prompted the military to go back to the .45LC (from .38LC). I'm not suggesting in any way that the 9mm is inadequate (I'm carrying my Glock 19 right now). I'm just saying it ain't no .45.

I've found cases where a .45 had similar results to what we saw in this case. There is no magic bullet that will always result in a one-shot stop.

Seems like the guy did everything right except dropping the gun right next to a bystander after the attack. Better to re-holster (assuming he had a holster). If he didn't, then just shoving it in his pants would have been batter. "Mexican Carry" can be acceptable as a temporary condition in exigent circumstance.

Nathan wrote:it's at least a little disturbing to me that dude barely reacted at all to the first two shots.

A well delivered punch or slap carries many times more force than a bullet. It happens all the time that people get hit with fists, boots, sticks, cinder blocks, etc. and don't react. Why should it be different with a small object not even the size of the first section of your index finger and barely (if even) breaking the sound barrier? Too many variables in a fight to have a guarantee of 100% effectiveness from just about anything. Sure, people get knocked out with a single punch. People are incapacitated with a single bullet. Do you want to count on that being the result when your life is on the line? I'll take a one hitter quitter if it happens, but I'm not counting on it.

"It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people who want power for the sake of power and that a significant proportion of such people are imbalanced — in a word, insane.” – Frank Herbert

I realize there will always be exceptions and note that if I felt heavy 9mm was inadequate I would be carrying something larger. As I've stated in the past, all else being equal (shot placement, mental and physical condition of the threat, etc.), 9mm is not and will never be truly equal to .45. I'm the same guy who was pushing heavy 9mm on this forum for ten years before the FBI Ballistics Lab figured out the exact same conclusions I reached, and yet I will never pretend that the two (.45 and 9mm) are truly equal. There are two separate issues: you have shooter performance (accuracy of shot placement, convenience of "carry-ability" of guns chambered in each caliber, etc.) and then you have bullet performance (penetration and expansion probabilities). In shooter performance, 9mm kicks .45 ass all day long and since the bullet performance is still perfectly acceptable, 9mm is the winner. In terms of bullet performance however, the .45 remains King. This is the entire reason for this post, essentially to focus on the bullet performance of the two. If you can truly shoot and carry the .45 equally, the .45 is the superior choice if for no other reason than that it is larger and heavier. This again is limiting the consideration to bullet performance. In terms of shooter performance however...well....I'm carrying my 9mm Glock 19 right now.

I put my money where my mouth is. I really tried finding an acceptable .45 for daily carry. This is why I bought the USPc .45s last week. I was truly hoping that I could find a .45 that I can carry with equal comfort and authority as the Glock 19. My effort failed. The Glock 19 remains my primary carry gun and I'm just tired of chasing a superior replacement. So for me, its the 9mm Glock 19 loaded with 147 grain HST +P JHPs....but I wish I could upgrade it to .45. The Glock 30/36 is not acceptable because it plants my pinky on the magazine extension instead of the grip and the minor shift of the magazine is a minor distraction from my sight picture. I'm considering a Glock 38 (compact Glock chambered in .45 GAP) but the last thing I need is yet another odd-ball caliber.

Nathan wrote:I realize there will always be exceptions and note that if I felt heavy 9mm was inadequate I would be carrying something larger. As I've stated in the past, all else being equal (shot placement, mental and physical condition of the threat, etc.), 9mm is not and will never be truly equal to .45. I'm the same guy who was pushing heavy 9mm on this forum for ten years before the FBI Ballistics Lab figured out the exact same conclusions I reached, and yet I will never pretend that the two (.45 and 9mm) are truly equal. There are two separate issues: you have shooter performance (accuracy of shot placement, convenience of "carry-ability" of guns chambered in each caliber, etc.) and then you have bullet performance (penetration and expansion probabilities). In shooter performance, 9mm kicks .45 ass all day long and since the bullet performance is still perfectly acceptable, 9mm is the winner. In terms of bullet performance however, the .45 remains King. This is the entire reason for this post, essentially to focus on the bullet performance of the two. If you can truly shoot and carry the .45 equally, the .45 is the superior choice if for no other reason than that it is larger and heavier. This again is limiting the consideration to bullet performance. In terms of shooter performance however...well....I'm carrying my 9mm Glock 19 right now.

I put my money where my mouth is. I really tried finding an acceptable .45 for daily carry. This is why I bought the USPc .45s last week. I was truly hoping that I could find a .45 that I can carry with equal comfort and authority as the Glock 19. My effort failed. The Glock 19 remains my primary carry gun and I'm just tired of chasing a superior replacement. So for me, its the 9mm Glock 19 loaded with 147 grain HST +P JHPs....but I wish I could upgrade it to .45. The Glock 30/36 is not acceptable because it plants my pinky on the magazine extension instead of the grip and the minor shift of the magazine is a minor distraction from my sight picture. I'm considering a Glock 38 (compact Glock chambered in .45 GAP) but the last thing I need is yet another odd-ball caliber.

I'm going into more detail on this in a dedicated thread.

I've carried both the 21sf and 36 daily as well as my 23 (90% of the time it's what I'm carrying. The 21 doesn't work for me due to my little girl hands, however the 21sf is perfect. The only downside being it's a full sized 45. Wasn't that hard to hide but I felt like I was printing all the time. The 36 while very easy to carry it's only 6+1.

I looked at the G38 as the best of both for a while but decided that the 45 doesnt gain that much over the 9mm and the .40 to make it worth buying another gun and in a wildcat caliber to top it off.

[quote="11bravo"The 36 while very easy to carry it's only 6+1.[/quote]Exactly. I already have a Shield in .45 that makes for a great backup and deep carry gun but it wouldn't be my primary daily carry due to the limited capacity.

The 21sf is doable, if it's worth it too you.

Just an FYI, the 21 SF dimensions are identical to the Gen 4 without installing the larger back-straps. Even still, it's just too big for my hand as well as for daily concealment.

Ultimately, the Glock 19 has served me well and I really don't expect that to change until Glock can give me a .45 ACP with the same overall dimensions as the 19 and since that won't happen I'll likely just stay with the 19/23/32.

I'm partial to ammo standardization myself. The first pistol I ever bought was in 9mm. Ever since then, I've tried to get all others in 9mm as well. It's very convenient to be able to supply most of your guns with the same ammo.

Nathan wrote:[quote="11bravo"The 36 while very easy to carry it's only 6+1.

Exactly. I already have a Shield in .45 that makes for a great backup and deep carry gun but it wouldn't be my primary daily carry due to the limited capacity.

The 21sf is doable, if it's worth it too you.

Just an FYI, the 21 SF dimensions are identical to the Gen 4 without installing the larger back-straps. Even still, it's just too big for my hand as well as for daily concealment.

Ultimately, the Glock 19 has served me well and I really don't expect that to change until Glock can give me a .45 ACP with the same overall dimensions as the 19 and since that won't happen I'll likely just stay with the 19/23/32.[/quote]

I have come to the same conclusion. I almost always carry my glock 23. as much as I love the 45 ACP. The g23 just works better for me carry wise. When I was carrying my g21sf it was only because my g23 had been stolen. Once I replaced it, back in the safe the 21sf went.