First Impressions of RED’s Brand New “Raven” Cinema Camera & Why It’s Not The Right Tool For Me

Posted On October 2, 2015

Over the past couple of years RED has seemingly been looking to take over the very high end cinema camera market, with Arri directly in their crosshairs. But with the recent official announcement of their new entry level camera – The Raven, it looks like the company’s strategy may be shifting. Although the idea of an entry level RED camera sounds nice in theory, in my opinion the Raven is not the cinema camera that many indie filmmakers have been waiting for.

For those of you that haven’t already heard about the RED Raven, it is a sub $6000 4K camera (body only) that will offer some pretty fantastic features in an a Weapon-like package. Here are some of the specs from nofilmschool:

There are some notable differences between the Raven and RED’s higher end offerings – namely the smaller sensor size (which falls in between MFT and APS-C), different frame rates, and a slightly lighter body, to name a few. But perhaps the “feature” RED is really trying to push the most with the Raven is the price, which at first glance seems exceptionally reasonable considering the usual cost of RED cameras. Unfortunately, things aren’t that simple though –

Anyone that’s ever owned a RED knows that the real cost of owning one is not the camera body itself, it’s the accessories. The media, touch screens, and other necessary components that are required just to get the camera up and running can collectively cost at least the same amount as the body itself… Depending on how you configure it of course.

One of the biggest issues I’ve had with the RED system over the years has been their proprietary approach to accessories, specifically because it drives the cost of buying their cameras up so much. Unlike manufacturers such as Blackmagic who will allow customers to use standard accessories and media (for instance CFast cards), RED prefers that you accessorize your camera using their gear, and the Raven is no exception. Like it’s more expensive counterparts, the Raven will use Mini-mags and other proprietary RED gear, meaning the real cost of investment in their system is far greater than just the brain.

This won’t be a deal breaker for everyone as obviously different shooters have different needs, and certain DP’s have deeper pockets than others. That said, this really isn’t a “budget” cinema camera when compared to other sub $10K or even sub $5K offerings on the market today.

Before I get into my short critique of this camera, I want to offer up a bit of a disclaimer. I really admire what RED has done as a company and have in fact used their cameras on dozens of my own personal and commercial productions. I think they make really amazing tools and I don’t doubt that the Raven like many of their other products will deliver stellar results… But at the same time there are a number of reasons why this specific camera isn’t for me, and why I believe it has missed the mark in certain ways. That doesn’t mean it’s not right for everyone, but just that given my personal taste in gear at the moment I believe there are stronger options for less money that I would personally choose over the Raven. That’s just me though…

Who Is The Raven For?

One of the big questions I have with the Raven, is who is RED really targeting with it? On one hand the camera body is around $6K which makes it seem (at first glance at least) that it would ideal for a budget conscious shooter = Perhaps someone looking at an URSA or an FS7. But on the other hand once you tally up the cost of even the most basic accessories you’ll need to make it shootable, you’re looking at the $10K – $15K range. And I would bet that many DPs and filmmakers that can afford to spend upwards of $15K will be more enticed by the other options in that price range – whether it be a used Epic/Dragon, Sony F5, or any of the other fantastic options out there.

And for those shooters that really can’t afford to spend that much on their camera package, cameras like the URSA Mini, FS7, C100 Mark II and others may be far more enticing. At the end of the day, having the ability to spend less money on your camera package and leave more in the pot for accessories, additional media, and 3rd party tools that can also work with their other camera systems is a no-brainer. At least that’s the case if you truly are trying to keep your costs down.

I completely understand RED wanting to go after the lower budget market, and am happy to see that it’s on their radar at the moment. But at the same time, I think some customers looking for a budget-concious solution from RED are not going to respond favorably to the Raven. After all, $6K may not sound like a lot in cinema camera terms, but it’s still a hefty chunk of change for your average indie filmmaker, and of course that’s just the tip of the iceberg. And again if it was truly a $6000 camera all-in, this would be a whole other discussion.

I’m sure the Raven will capture some stunning images, and would bet it’ll find a home in rental houses and as a B or C camera on Weapon/Dragon productions. But for many low-budget owner/operators, it’s going to be a really tough sell. Not only because the price is so high, but also because the competition at the moment is so stiff –

There has really never been a better time to buy an entry level cinema camera, as the options at the moment are practically endless. For shooters that are looking for an affordable alternative to RED or Arri, Blackmagic offers some of the best bang for your buck cameras out there, in my opinion at least. Sony’s FS7 and newly announced FS5 are fantastic tools as well that cater to a different market than Blackmagic does. Canon has lost their footing in many ways over the past two years, but are now showing signs of competing more aggressively again, and many of their lower cost C-series cameras are enticing to filmmakers on a budget. Not to mention the DSLR market is still thriving (more-so the mirrorless market, really) and cameras like the GH4, A7S II, and even the Samsung NX1 are viable options for so many budding DPs.

The bottom line is, if someone wants a true 4K cinema-style camera for under $10K – RED is still not really option. And once you get into the $10K + price range, there are so many other cameras to consider (including RED’s own Scarlet or a used Epic), that the Raven might not be ideal for many shooters.

My guess is that RED is testing the waters at the moment. They have already been maxing out their high end camera lineup as much as possible by offering up to 8K resolution on their top tier Weapon body, and now they’re obviously looking to tap into the lower budget market. The Raven is definitely a step in the right direction – but the pricing and proprietary nature of the system will likely prevent many independent shooters from pulling the trigger on it.

Once again, these are just my two cents. RED has pushed the technological boundaries of digital cinema since the RED ONE was released and I hope they continue to do so for many years. This particular camera, just doesn’t fit the bill for this particular filmmaker.

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Noam Kroll is an award-winning Los Angeles based filmmaker, and the founder of the boutique production house, Creative Rebellion. His work can be seen at international film festivals, on network television, and in various publications across the globe. Follow Noam on social media using the links below for more content like this!

12 Comments

Thanks for the write-up. So sounds like your reason against the Raven is primarily price? I agree it’s expensive but I think it’s one of the few cams you can shoot high frame rate at 4K in a Raw codec. I could use the higher frame rates so this cam keeps tempting me. But also interested in URSA Mini… if they ever release it. But kinda worried they’re having troubles with it, kinda like the 4K sensor they were never able to get it quite right.

Yes, the main reason is the cost. I think the images will be fantastic, but I don’t like the idea of having to buy into the expensive RED eco-system… That’s just me though! URSA Mini is an amazing alternative and definitely would be my choice, especially after shooting with the 4.6K version a week ago, and seeing the results.

The unbelievable amount of frustration that BMD has supplied me with this year has had me eying REDs cameras much more closely than ever before.

The Raven however is not a HFR camera. Not at all. Yes, it has the “capability” of shooting 120FPS, but at a 15:1 compression it is basically a useless function.

I frequently use HFR in my daily work and have fallen in love with what raw/uncompressed images yield and really only like the looks of ARRI, RED & BMD (in that order). Due to budget and my hopes that BMD would become a major contender in meeting my needs I have been with BMD for almost two years now.

Recently I had the opportunity to purchase a RED Raven for my 9-5 gig, so it is yet to be determined; which way I will go with my next (personal/side-gig) camera. However; for me, the Scarlet-W is the only RED option that makes sense and appears to meet all of my needs.

All of that said, the images that I have seen coming out of the 4.6 have been stellar (Thanks Noam!) and I am begrudgingly holding onto hope that the turret upgrade will be even more impressive than the Mini (higher frame-rates and capabilities due to the more powerful processor etc.).

Either way I will let the other early adopters bite the bullet for me this time around and will not be making any final decisions until after NAB and there are enough Scarlet-W’s and URSA 4.6’s in the wild to make an informed decision.

Thanks for the note Cody! Good points here and I think a lot of people are struggling with the same decision. Either way, It think you’re wise to wait for a bit longer to see how both cameras perform in the field after they’ve been out for a while.

Thanks for a great article. I just sold my RED Scarlet MX package for all the reasons you outline here: the inability to use standard monitors and media with RED gear is an expensive problem.
But I also refuse to give Blackmagic my money as well, as I don’t trust them at all (ie. delivery dates and “upgrade” features). I’ve decided to go with a Sony A7s with the Atomos Flame series for my 4K.

Thanks for sharing Sathya. If nothing else, Sony is going to give you reliability, so in that regard you absolutely made the best choice. Not to mention it’s still capable of producing great images in the right hands… Good luck with it!

Hey Noam,
What do you think of the upgrades from what you have originally posted?

It’s now 4.5K at 120fps.
Also larger sensor with FF crop at 1.62, which is close to Canon’s APS-C crop of 1.6

Lastly, I do agree it is expensive, but it is getting you into its ecosystem. For the most part, sometime in the future you can reuse the parts on another brain. So… Yeah… $6000 (body) + $4000 to $9000 in accessories, but 10-15 years from now, you will upgrade and get an 8K weapon body for $4000 and use all of your current parts.

Also, the RED name will also get you a new set of clientele that will more than pay you premium price for the delivered goods so that should also cover most of the cost., no?

Hey Kabilen – You’re right that it helps you buy into the RED ecosystem, but that’s sort of what I don’t like about it. If you were to invest in a third party monitor, battery solution, media, etc. on a different camera, you could then use those parts on any other cinema camera. When you buy RED peripherals, they will only ever work with RED.

As for clientele – the RED name really won’t make all that much of a difference. I’ve been doing this for 12 years professionally and have never booked a job because of the camera package I owned…Sometimes because I owned gear, but never specifically because of a camera model.

Good luck with choosing! It’s still a great camera in the right hands, but maybe just not for me.

I’ve recently received my RED Raven and now have my 1st RED camera with accessories. As someone who’s worked with Blackmagic, Canon C500, Sony Fs7 and a7rii, along with Panasonic rigs, After shooting with the Raven I have Zero Regrets. This thing is a beast and its light enough to put on a gimbal. Made in America

Hey Noam, I’ve been doing some research into the Raven and came across your review. It does seem like your biggest gripe is the price, but I’ve not been enjoying my Sony a7SII and didn’t really like the FS7 either. The Panasonic EVA1 has me intrigued, but now that RED/Apple are selling the entire Raven package with everything you need to start shooting at $15K, do you still think people should look elsewhere? It took me years to upgrade to the a7SII from a DSLR, I’m ready for a cinema camera and want to start working in the RED lineup, but can’t do $20K or more! Thoughts?

Hey Mike! Great questions all around… You are correct that my biggest issue with RED (in particular on the Raven) is pricing. It’s a great camera, and can produce gorgeous images, but there are so many more affordable cameras – like the URSA Mini Pro – that deliver a similar level of quality for less money. That said, if you really love the RED look, I think the package deal through Apple is a great option. And this is especially true if you like the package it’s been set up with. Otherwise, you could always look on eBay for a second hand RED package, and you might score an even better deal.