Hang on. The change to the font-stacks was never supposed to go in! It was tried out, the decision was made for it to be reverted - which no one had time to do - and then I foolishly punted the ticket, not knowing that the change was still in trunk and under the assumption that it *had* been reverted.

I talked to several people about reverting 2 weeks ago and the decision was made that no further changes could be made to font stacks because it was too late. (I felt pretty bad about that)

However, if that's NOT the case and we CAN still make changes to font stacks then please can we revert - not implement this even further?

I really hope that we don't end up throwing out Lucida in this release because after the patch was committed, we all agreed that it looked really bad and needed to be reverted. And I REALLY hope it is not getting thrown out just because it is the "easiest" solution to the problem. (design should not be sacrificed this way) I'm pretty sure that everyone on a Mac in the UI group would love to work on a solution that does not involve the removal of Lucida for the next release.

If we can still make font changes for this release: please, for the love of design, REVERT.

If you want a patch, then I have attached one anyway, and seem (or at least hope) I have got all the little things back in shape? ;) On another note JohnONolan, there appears to be 2 instances of #utc-time, #local-time { in wp-admin.dev.css which I found too. ​L3075 and ​L3918

If you want a patch, then I have attached one anyway, and seem (or at least hope) I have got all the little things back in shape? ;) On another note JohnONolan, there appears to be 2 instances of #utc-time, #local-time in wp-admin.dev.css which I found too. ​L3075 and ​L3918

Note that Lucida Grande has no cursive style. The browser may build its own cursive (ugh!), ignore the italic font style or choose the cursive from the next family in the stack. Therefore make sure Lucida is never used in combination with font-style:italic.

Note that Lucida Grande has no cursive style. The browser may build its own cursive (ugh!), ignore the italic font style or choose the cursive from the next family in the stack. Therefore make sure Lucida is never used in combination with font-style:italic.

That trick is for Windows, when you want to use Lucida Sans Unicode as a fallback font for Lucida Grande. (Lucida Sans Unicode has neither Bold nor Italic. It only has one variety: Regular.)

It is also a problematic trick: It uses Lucida Sans (the plain one, no the Unicode variety) for bold and italic, but Lucida Sans, unlike Lucida Sans Unicode, has a very narrow character range. So, for anything beyond Basic Latin the result is probably worse than without the trick. If you only care about Basic Latin, though, it is a good trick.

With [17334] which came up from #16308 I just updated the patch so there's no conflicts and all that, I think the question still is if it's going back in or not? :) But attachment:16298.3.diff​ would be the patch to use!

I don't think we should sacrifice the design/readability of specific fonts on different platforms for cross-platform consistency. Each platform renders type differently and if that means choosing a different type for each platform to get the most readability out of them, so be it.