February 23, 2010

The Two J.B. Handleys

Seems there are several people with the same name all promoting the notion that vaccines cause autism. A couple of weeks ago I wrote that there were at least two people with the name “David Kirby” – one from 2005 who thought that decreasing autism rates meant that autism was caused by vaccines, and another in 2010 who believes that increasing autism rates meant that autism was caused by vaccines. Now it looks like there are two J.B. Handleys too. For example, read what someone called J.B. Handley from last week, wrote about how autism is first noticed by parents:

It is exceptionally rare that I hear the story, “my son was 100% fine, and at 2 years old after one vaccine appointment he lost everything.” I have heard that story, but very rarely.

Jamie Handley was a happy, healthy baby who reached all his developmental milestones until he turned 18 months, his parents said. Then, he started spinning in circles and standing on his toes and no longer responded to his name. They were eventually told he was autistic

[My bold.]

Hum. An autistic child called Jamie Handley? Handley? Surely not the son of J.B. Handley? Nah – couldn’t be. Until I clicked on the more images link and got this picture:

Caption: J.B. Handley plays with his son, Jamie, who is receiving chelation therapy to reduce mercury in his body and treat his autism.

J.B. Handley? Oh I get it - this is a different J.B. Handley. This J.B. Handley’s son met all his developmental milestones until he turned 18 months – then he started spinning in circles, etc. Clearly, as with David Kirby 2005, this is a different J.B. Handley from 2005, who (unlike J.B. Handley from 2010) doesn’t know what the hell he is talking about. You see, as J.B. Handley 2010 knows, children just don’t regress all at one time just after a vaccination like the parents of this Jamie Handley from 2005 said. What douche bags they must be, this J.B. Handley from 2005 and his wife:

But the Handleys and other parents say they noticed symptoms in their children after they got booster shots

And it’s not just J.B. Handley from 2005 who’s got this wrong. Jenny McCarthy didn’t get the script either. For example, from Jenny: Evan's Story

[Note: Since writing this post, Generation Rescue have obviously realized that Jenny's previous story conflicts with the version they now want you to read, with the goalposts in their new location, and so they have removed the above link to the story. Unfortunately for Generation Rescue's attempts to re-write history, you can still read it using the Wayback Machine to Jenny: Evan's Story.]

Jenny says even before Evan received his vaccines, she tried to talk to her pediatrician about it. "Right before his MMR shot, I said to the doctor, 'I have a very bad feeling about this shot. This is the autism shot, isn't it?' And he said, 'No, that is ridiculous. It is a mother's desperate attempt to blame something,' and he swore at me, and then the nurse gave [Evan] the shot," she says. "And I remember going, 'Oh, God, I hope he's right.' And soon thereafter -- boom -- the soul's gone from his eyes.

[My bold.]

So, right after the MMR shot (which to me sounds like “one vaccine appointment”) - “boom.” I don’t know how you interpret that, but to me “boom” means something happening pretty quickly – all in one go. And that quote was on the Generation Rescue web site. Generation Rescue. The organization founded by J.B. and Lisa Handley. I guess that website must have been set up by the J.B. Handley from 2005, not the one from 2010.

So let’s recap. J.B. Handley from 2005 thinks autism occurs quickly – you have a happy, healthy baby who reached all his developmental milestones right up until the point where he starts spinning in circles, etc. You see, that’s how J.B. Handley 2005 knows the vaccines caused his son’s autism – the child was fine up until the point where he suddenly shows autistic tendencies after being vaccinated. Also, that J.B. Handley (the one from 2005), reports on his organization’s website about someone called Jenny McCarthy who knows her son’s autism was caused by the MMR shot. And she knows her son’s autism was caused by the MMR shot because “boom” he became autistic right after the MMR shot. So J.B. Handley 2005 knows that autism is caused by vaccines because the autism starts right after the child gets the vaccine.

Then we have the other J.B. Handley (the one from 2010), who knows that autism doesn’t suddenly appear “after one vaccine appointment” (or at least, very rarely does), but rather is a chronic slide over a period of time, and so he knows that vaccines cause autism because… er wait a minute, if autism doesn’t occur just after the vaccinations are given, why exactly does J.B. Handley 2010 thinks vaccines cause autism?

One more thing just occurred to me. J.B. Handley 2005 thinks autism is a misdiagnosis for mercury poisoning, and is chelating his son to remove the mercury, while Jenny McCarthy thinks the live MMR vaccine, that never had any mercury in it, is what gave her son autism. So which is it – is it mercury or is it MMR? Because they’re different things. Hey, you don’t suppose there are really three J.B. Handleys do you? Because, you know, that would be weird.

I like these "two faced" posts. Continues to just show that no matter what happens, no matter what evidence arises, no matter how complete the proof is, to these jerks, it will always be the vaccines that cause autism.

You know becuase it can't be age of the parent, genetic inheritance, changes in diagnosis criterion, or self deception on the part of parents. That would be impossible. You know... because its the vaccines.

@dogmatichaos: In her book, there's an introduction by Dr. Kartzinel, who stated: "Autism, as I see it, steals the soul from a child; then, if allowed, relentelessly sucks life's marrow out of the family members, one by one."

That was quite offensive to many in the autism communities, and it can also be shown that it's nonsense factually.

As I recall it, Jenny McCarthy's son "became autistic" after his seizures started--which was age 2.5. This would be 1 to 1.5 years after the MMR. Yes, in geologic time that counts as "soon therafter".

In the recent Time magazine article they talk about Jenny watching her kid's eyes roll back after vaccines--an event not mentioned in her first book, as I recall.

On the non-child front, Jenny had a run-in with Barbara Walters on the day of her episode of "The View". This was a big event in her life, one that took a chapter of her book. The problem is that she changed the story. In one version she had the run-in before going on The View, in another version, it happened after going on The View.

My son had health problems beginning at about 2 months of age, largely related to GI issues, food allergies, and sleep. They were always with him from that point on, he was always sick.

After his 13 month appointment, his health took an abrupt turn for the worse, but his development continued. Somewhere around 18 months, he started to lose many of the milestones he had met. My wife and I pieced together a 3-4 month slide...

At 24 months, he was diagnosed with autism.

The story has always been the same, wordsmithing wont change what happened to Jamie or all the other kids, nice try.

I remember taking her to the doctor and asking him if this shot would cause any harm to her. I was told no no no. I remember having second thoughts. I then remember my healthy girl getting her MMR. Overnite, [sic] she was projectile vomiting and spiked a fever. The following morning, she was not the child she was the day before. I will always blame myself for not following my gut. [My bold.]

“Overnight.” Huh – that sure sounds like “my son daughter was 100% fine, and […] after one vaccine appointment [s]he lost everything.”

So does this:

15 months old vaccines (including MMR) adverse reactions: was running before he had vaccines and once he had the vaccines he was running into walls and stumbling. Two days later, he couldn't walk/couldn't crawl, acted like he was 'on drugs', kept holding his head and moaning, and lost all speech (he had about 10 words before that). It was all downhill from there. I fully support an alternative vaccine schedule and do not believe that newborns should be vaccinated. [My bold.]

“Two days” after a vaccine.

Mr Handley – in future could you please state which JB Handley you are – the one from 2005 or the one from 2010? Because if you were the same person, you would have just contradicted yourself with those two comments.

Handley is not the only one with shifting stories regarding vaccination and the development of autism in his child. In fact, if one is willing to wade through the stories by parents at AoA and chart the changes, it becomes apparent that their group membership contributes to the shifting of more extreme stories. I don't think they are aware of it; I don't even think they do it intentionally. I've written on this (in conjunction with Thelma and Louise) at Handley is not the only one with shifting stories regarding vaccination and the development of autism in his child. In fact, if one is willing to wade through the stories by parents at AoA and chart the changes, it becomes apparent that their group membership contributes to the shifting of more extreme stories. I don't think they are aware of it; I don't even think they do it intentionally. I've written on this (in conjunction with Thelma and Louise) at http://counteringageofautism.blogspot.com/2009/12/memory-like-wine-t-and-ls-true-lies.html.

After his 13 month appointment, his health took an abrupt turn for the worse, but his development continued. Somewhere around 18 months, he started to lose many of the milestones he had met.

So, what else might your son have been exposed to in the five months between the shot and the first signs of regression? You can't even make a good case that the vaccine was the proximate cause of the autism.

And as to all your testimonials--from people who, with their flawed memories and nonexistent medical experience, make the same error you do: associating autism diagnosis with vaccination because they occur closely enough to each other to be considered "close"--you do realize that the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data,' right? Why is it that when we control for confounding factors and subjective, selective memory, this connection between autism and vaccines disappears?

Recall bias is a real problem for autism research. The parents are not making it up. But they are subject to all sorts of subtle pressures to misremember and truly believe that they are faithfully remembering the past.

“A review of each record showed that in 13 children the history given by the parents had changed after the extensive publicity about MMR vaccine and autism. Before the publicity the parents often reported concerns early in their child's life, usually before their first birthday; the current history for the same children recorded symptoms as developing only after MMR vaccination, in some cases shortly after.”
(Taylor, Miller, Lingam, Andrews, Simmons & Stowe 2002. page 395)http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articlerender.cgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=11850369

You made no sense what-so-ever! What were trying to convey by your useless ranting? I honestly thought I was reading the script to "Billy Madison" where he tries to describe the Industrial Revolution. Let me help you.... At the very end of your story you have written..."Nib High Football Rules"!!!!

You made no sense what-so-ever! What were trying to convey by your useless ranting? I honestly thought I was reading the script to "Billy Madison" where he tries to describe the Industrial Revolution. Let me help you.... At the very end of your story you should have written..."Nib High Football Rules"!!!!

I can understand the "Wacko" part of your handle, but where exactly does the "Smasher" part fit in?

Let me guess, you wanted to Smash Skeptico's criticism of Handley, and had some super great knock downs ready, but then you got distracted and finished up posting a complaint about composition and style instead.

The Smasher part to my name is because I kick Ass! When I see something or someone who thinks they have all of the answers and comes across like an idiot, that is when they get smashed and if you can make out Skeptico's ranting then more power to you brother.

Anyways, I can see why Senor Skeptico is giving Mr. Handley a hard time because parts of his story doesn't add up. I give that to Skeptico but when you have a child with Autism time flys my friend and next thing you know 7 years have gone by and your child is still in diapers. As for my story, who cares.

Yakaru, I loved your break down of my last post but my intensions were not to knock down Senor Skeptico but just to put some humor in his Billy Madison type rant. Looks like you should get out more often and focus on what is important rather than follow some knuckle head who obviously has nothing better to do than to write up a story (and a bad one ontop of that) about a man trying to get the word out to the people about what happened to his child.

So if you like, come to the Bronx and I will show you why they call me the WackoSmasher.

"Looks like you should get out more often and focus on what is important"

sigh, if I had a nickle for every time I heard that condescending tone. If you were actually humorous, I'd say you were adding humor. But you are just an asshat with nothing to say. As if Yakaru spent all day huddled up in his computer room in the dark to spit out that 20 second post.

Plus you are all over the place, yeah 7 years is a long time. Handley maintains both points of view, but worse than all of this and the reason fo rthe post, is that handley runs Generation Rescue. It woudl be fine if he was some no name parent asking question, but no, he runs the antivax central command. The damage this guy causes is huge.

So sure, think you are funny when you are not. go for the live and let live point of view while your child isnt infected by something harmful due to the vitriol and bile this guy spews.

Yakaru, I loved your break down of my last post but my intensions were not to knock down Senor Skeptico but just to put some humor in his Billy Madison type rant.

You failed miserably in both your intentions.

Looks like you should get out more often and focus on what is important

Yeah, do important stuff like writing content-free critiques of things we clearly don't understand! Arguing against someone who is successfully lobbying for the return of deadly infectious diseases because he rejects basic medicine for no good reason is totally trivial.

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we've just met the definition of "asshat."

I can understand a parent with an autistic kid freaking out, getting aggressive, demanding to have their claims taken seriously. But at some point, they have to accept that speaking out on such an important issue demands responsibility and at least trying to get your facts straight.

It's a bit like someone dialing 911 and then being to het up to remember their location.

[Deadpan] Yeah, because really, we need a president who cares only about style, not substance. We need a president who will only rebrand their political party instead of tackling the tough issues. [/Deadpan]