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I'd say the only person who could defend themselves against a violent attack without exhibiting anger would be a complete sociopath.

I must know alot of sociopaths then.

I will take my training and skills over anyones anger anyday. It has not failed me yet.

I agree with you in regards to the actual day of competition, but for training and practice anger goes a long way. It's definitely more useful than indifference such as our players displayed this season.

Aggression is what I was taught!!!

I have not seen aggression from an Auburn secondary in a long time. The flag that was thrown on TBell in the Iron Bowl was the best sign of aggression from the secondary all year and we were penalized 15 yards. My high school coach would have laughed at that penalty and told us to play just like that.

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It's very bad for a team, but other teams have had similar things happen and it actually pulled them together. Something went wrong at Auburn and I think the robbery and the fight that resulted in shootings are just symptoms of a bigger problem on the team, not the cause of the problem,

Yep, a total of 6 (or 7?) were shot that night. Reason for shooting; somebody danced with the wrong girl.

The problem at Auburn is that it's too close to Montgomery. The problem with Montgomery is that that type of behavior is tolerated there.

This is a ridiculous statement. Murder is not a joking matter and is not tolerated anywhere. To suggest otherwise is simply tasteless or clueless or both

Never said it was a joking matter. I don't mean that the citizens are tolerant of it.

Montgomery is A LOT more violent than you are probably aware, and a ton of stuff that goes on there is not reported on the news.

Imo, for the purpose of catching the murderer, involving the agencies that were asked to get involved was the best thing that they could have done.

I live in Montgomery and know more about that particular topic than you what you may be willing to concede. Like any other city Montgomery has its problems but, if for no other reason, the Montgomery Police Dept's response to information that the killer had been located is an obvious indication of how much they tolerate murder. Your statement had no basis in reality and the fact that you posted it was in extremely poor taste. Murder, my friend, is not tolerated anywhere in the civilized world.

My career allowed me a little extra insight into the Montgomery thug life. I was shocked to see what was going on there.

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It's very bad for a team, but other teams have had similar things happen and it actually pulled them together. Something went wrong at Auburn and I think the robbery and the fight that resulted in shootings are just symptoms of a bigger problem on the team, not the cause of the problem,

Yep, a total of 6 (or 7?) were shot that night. Reason for shooting; somebody danced with the wrong girl.

The problem at Auburn is that it's too close to Montgomery. The problem with Montgomery is that that type of behavior is tolerated there.

This is a ridiculous statement. Murder is not a joking matter and is not tolerated anywhere. To suggest otherwise is simply tasteless or clueless or both

Never said it was a joking matter. I don't mean that the citizens are tolerant of it.

Montgomery is A LOT more violent than you are probably aware, and a ton of stuff that goes on there is not reported on the news.

Imo, for the purpose of catching the murderer, involving the agencies that were asked to get involved was the best thing that they could have done.

I live in Montgomery and know more about that particular topic than you what you may be willing to concede. Like any other city Montgomery has its problems but, if for no other reason, the Montgomery Police Dept's response to information that the killer had been located is an obvious indication of how much they tolerate murder. Your statement had no basis in reality and the fact that you posted it was in extremely poor taste. Murder, my friend, is not tolerated anywhere in the civilized world.

My career allowed me a little extra insight into the Montgomery thug life. I was shocked to see what was going on there.

Sorry I offended you, but my opinion is based on my experiences.

You didn't offend me but the statement is patently false. You clearly stated that murder is tolerated in Montgomery...do you expect anyone to simply accept that as being the truth? Every city has an element of undesirables...that in and of itself in no way means that murder is an acceptable behavior. Its somewhat of surprise to me that you're still trying to sell the validity of your original statement. I couldn't care less what you've experienced, that doesn't mean murder is acceptable nor tolerated there. You've lost your mind son pure and simple if you're sticking to that idiotic drivel.

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It's very bad for a team, but other teams have had similar things happen and it actually pulled them together. Something went wrong at Auburn and I think the robbery and the fight that resulted in shootings are just symptoms of a bigger problem on the team, not the cause of the problem,

Yep, a total of 6 (or 7?) were shot that night. Reason for shooting; somebody danced with the wrong girl.

The problem at Auburn is that it's too close to Montgomery. The problem with Montgomery is that that type of behavior is tolerated there.

This is a ridiculous statement. Murder is not a joking matter and is not tolerated anywhere. To suggest otherwise is simply tasteless or clueless or both

Never said it was a joking matter. I don't mean that the citizens are tolerant of it.

Montgomery is A LOT more violent than you are probably aware, and a ton of stuff that goes on there is not reported on the news.

Imo, for the purpose of catching the murderer, involving the agencies that were asked to get involved was the best thing that they could have done.

I live in Montgomery and know more about that particular topic than you what you may be willing to concede. Like any other city Montgomery has its problems but, if for no other reason, the Montgomery Police Dept's response to information that the killer had been located is an obvious indication of how much they tolerate murder. Your statement had no basis in reality and the fact that you posted it was in extremely poor taste. Murder, my friend, is not tolerated anywhere in the civilized world.

My career allowed me a little extra insight into the Montgomery thug life. I was shocked to see what was going on there.

Sorry I offended you, but my opinion is based on my experiences.

You didn't offend me but the statement is patently false. You clearly stated that murder is tolerated in Montgomery...do you expect anyone to simply accept that as being the truth? Every city has an element of undesirables...that in and of itself in no way means that murder is an acceptable behavior. Its somewhat of surprise to me that you're still trying to sell the validity of your original statement. I couldn't care less what you've experienced, that doesn't mean murder is acceptable nor tolerated there. You've lost your mind son pure and simple if you're sticking to that idiotic drivel.

Clearly it's not 100% tolerated. Tolerated may be the wrong word if that's how you perceive that statement. I'll just leave it that violent crimes are a more accepted aspect of life there. Regardless of how we want to define it, there is a lot of bad things that go on there that don't get much attention.

I will tell you that I feel safer in Atlanta than I do in Montgomery (based on per capita), and that's saying a lot.

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Ok ok ok....I didn't read this whole thread, just the first page and the last. The military analogy is actually quite fitting. I have been to Iraq and Afghanistan, and I have saluted my fallen comrades boots after they were taken from this world by the worst the world has to offer. My emotional response to that was to be more committed to my job, and to be more committed to the fact that these lives were wasted trying to "save" that part of the world. My emotion was pretty typical, but not necessarily the only reaction to be found in my formation. With all that said, I don't believe that the murders were what held the players back on game day, but I do think they might have affected the players focus during the critical time prior to the season where they would have otherwise been in the weight room or going over film. Furthermore, I think Chizik might have been overly sensitive to the players reactions to those murders, and let discipline suffer from it. As a SSG in the Army, I can tell you that above all else, the mission must go on. That means that when morale gets low, you have to emphasize the fact that lying down will only make the situation worse. Granted, these guys aren't protecting their country in a war zone, but their mission is to get a degree, and to bust their butts out there on Saturdays. If the murders were to blame for their failures, then their leader is to blame.

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Ok ok ok....I didn't read this whole thread, just the first page and the last. The military analogy is actually quite fitting. I have been to Iraq and Afghanistan, and I have saluted my fallen comrades boots after they were taken from this world by the worst the world has to offer. My emotional response to that was to be more committed to my job, and to be more committed to the fact that these lives were wasted trying to "save" that part of the world. My emotion was pretty typical, but not necessarily the only reaction to be found in my formation. With all that said, I don't believe that the murders were what held the players back on game day, but I do think they might have affected the players focus during the critical time prior to the season where they would have otherwise been in the weight room or going over film. Furthermore, I think Chizik might have been overly sensitive to the players reactions to those murders, and let discipline suffer from it. As a SSG in the Army, I can tell you that above all else, the mission must go on. That means that when morale gets low, you have to emphasize the fact that lying down will only make the situation worse. Granted, these guys aren't protecting their country in a war zone, but their mission is to get a degree, and to bust their butts out there on Saturdays. If the murders were to blame for their failures, then their leader is to blame.

+1

I'd say the only person who could defend themselves against a violent attack without exhibiting anger would be a complete sociopath.

I'd say that any person that could use the deaths of young men for the benefit of winning football games could be a complete sociopath!!!

Some have missed the point of my post. I was simply saying that Chiz might have viewed the unfortunate accident in a wider sense than just his coaching career. Whether you agree or not is up to you.

I think you are giving Chizik too much credit. He doesn't appear to have that depth of thought.

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Lets look at this tragedy differently. In 1983 Auburn running back Greg Pratt was running timed 440 yd wind sprints as a prerequisite to entering pre season camp. He failed one of the sprints and collapsed from exhaustion. His desire to be a member of the team allowed him to try again, but still failed. In the locker room he collapsed in the shower, suffered cardiac arrest and died after resusitation efforts failed. The entire team attended his funeral. They grieved openly and passionately at the services held in Greg Pratt's home church in Albany GA. The Auburn team dedicated the season to their teammate and finished one of the great all time Auburn football seasons.

I know none of the players on either team well, or the coaches. I surmise from media reports that the difference in response to the tragedies of 1983 vs 2012 is that the 1983 team was mentally tough from the coaching of Pat Dye and the leadership that was instilled into the team. The 1983 tragedy was the responsibility of Auburn University, not some punk gangster. The response of the team was remarkable and helped heal the wounds between the school and the family according to teammate and friend Lionel James.

It is a cliche, but tough people rise to the occasion in tough times. My parents did so in rural alabama during the depression. Weak people wilt under pressure and give up, fold the tents and quit. Nobody in my grandparents houses quit, they all prevailed, because they were toughened, from hard work. College football is a tough endevour. The players need tough coaches to lead them to success. It is remarkable to see how many of these players succeed in business as a result of their training.

Find me a coaching staff that is tough and savy. I don't care if they have already achieved fame or fortune at another school. Auburn University is a platform for success in the world of college football and there is no limitation on success with the correct leadership. Look at all the great teams in Auburn history. They all share one quality.

Little doc

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It's very bad for a team, but other teams have had similar things happen and it actually pulled them together. Something went wrong at Auburn and I think the robbery and the fight that resulted in shootings are just symptoms of a bigger problem on the team, not the cause of the problem,

Yep, a total of 6 (or 7?) were shot that night. Reason for shooting; somebody danced with the wrong girl.

The problem at Auburn is that it's too close to Montgomery. The problem with Montgomery is that that type of behavior is tolerated there.

This is a ridiculous statement. Murder is not a joking matter and is not tolerated anywhere. To suggest otherwise is simply tasteless or clueless or both

Never said it was a joking matter. I don't mean that the citizens are tolerant of it.

Montgomery is A LOT more violent than you are probably aware, and a ton of stuff that goes on there is not reported on the news.

Imo, for the purpose of catching the murderer, involving the agencies that were asked to get involved was the best thing that they could have done.

I live in Montgomery and know more about that particular topic than you what you may be willing to concede. Like any other city Montgomery has its problems but, if for no other reason, the Montgomery Police Dept's response to information that the killer had been located is an obvious indication of how much they tolerate murder. Your statement had no basis in reality and the fact that you posted it was in extremely poor taste. Murder, my friend, is not tolerated anywhere in the civilized world.

My career allowed me a little extra insight into the Montgomery thug life. I was shocked to see what was going on there.

Sorry I offended you, but my opinion is based on my experiences.

You didn't offend me but the statement is patently false. You clearly stated that murder is tolerated in Montgomery...do you expect anyone to simply accept that as being the truth? Every city has an element of undesirables...that in and of itself in no way means that murder is an acceptable behavior. Its somewhat of surprise to me that you're still trying to sell the validity of your original statement. I couldn't care less what you've experienced, that doesn't mean murder is acceptable nor tolerated there. You've lost your mind son pure and simple if you're sticking to that idiotic drivel.

Clearly it's not 100% tolerated. Tolerated may be the wrong word if that's how you perceive that statement. I'll just leave it that violent crimes are a more accepted aspect of life there. Regardless of how we want to define it, there is a lot of bad things that go on there that don't get much attention.

I will tell you that I feel safer in Atlanta than I do in Montgomery (based on per capita), and that's saying a lot.

LOL....NO! they're NOT. Crime is not an accepted way of life in Montgomery, Al. I dont where know you're getting your information but you continue to post patently false statements that have absolutely NO BASIS in reality. Your feelings are your problem but I can tell you unequivocally that whatever it is you're basing them on has left you utterly confused and completely miguided in your assumptions. Ive lived in Montgomery all my life and never had any kind of brush with the element you continue to suggest is of greater number than law abiding citizens. If, while visiting, you've made it your business to look for trouble, you can find that in any town regardless of its location in America. If you fear for your life in Montgomery, my recommendation is simple..dont hang out there. All I can tell you is, I have lived there my whole life and have never even once had an altercation in which I felt unsafe! If you just want to make a big deal out of the Auburn shooter being from Montgomery and try to suggest that happens here all the time..thats simply a miguided and patently false assumption. Do capitol murders and other homicides occur in Montgoemry..of course, but violent crime there is about on par with the rest of the state..heres the link, clearly, you're either mistaken, misguided or you simply have an axe to grind which would seem rather weird. If you actually take the time to study the comparative links you'll find that your chance of being a victim off a violent crime in ATL is 1 in 71 while in Montgomery its 1 in 258. NEXT!

neighborhoodscout

Edited December 1, 2012 by TheBlueVue

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It's very bad for a team, but other teams have had similar things happen and it actually pulled them together. Something went wrong at Auburn and I think the robbery and the fight that resulted in shootings are just symptoms of a bigger problem on the team, not the cause of the problem,

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It isn't tolerated by normal people, but gangbangers aren't normal people. They just shrug and say "that's life." Pwauburn is dead on. Of course no normal people tolerate it, but the gangs in Montgomery don't care about each other's lives. I've seen it first hand. I've had friends affected by it. I believe Montgomery is cleaning up, which is great, because it was becoming horrific.

I'll just say this, when I go into a gas station and a COP has to walk me and my girlfriend to my car because it's not safe, that's a problem. Idk if you guys giving pwauburn a hard time because you live in Montgomery or what, but he's correct in addressing the culture in parts of the city.