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don't shoot me

unitedThread Starter

i was thinking it over about the shooting star bag... here's the thing thats been bugging me: from a moral standpoint, how is buying one different from buying a fake, in terms of the argument that hermes is losing money, or being cheated somehow. Yes, its real in terms of quality, but that point aside, quite often the point is made here that people are justified in being hostile to fake bags and their owners because of the fraud or copyright infringement aspect. unlike resellers, whose bags were presumably paid for and that money went to hermes originally, even if the additional profit does not, the shooting star bag is made by a craftsperson as a favor by hermes, using hermes time and material and training. it is strictly for personal/family use only and not profit (at least that's what i've learned here on tpf). customers buying a shooting star bag would likely pay for one from the store if hermes would just move it and produce more (lol), so it is money that would go to hermes but that is going to a private individual instead. i would not want a shooting star bag only because of the whole "being shut out" of the service from hermes, that would bother me, but it does occur to me that people are ostracized for owning fake bags on this forum for reasons that ought to apply to shooting star bags as well, yet those are regarded as treasures. personally i feel that anyone should carry whatever purse they want to and enjoy them, but i do see a contradiction being expressed frequently on this issue.

~H~

That's an interesting point HH. I think it's sad that these shooting star bags would not stay in the family and be passed down. To be sold just seems wrong somehow...JMO. Plus not being able to get them serviced.
I agree that people should be able to carry whatever they enjoy and it makes me sad when other brands are put down. (eww I would never carry ___) In my lust for Hermes I might have had that attitude at first:shame: but when I was taking out my Coach bags to take pictures of them to sell them I realized, why? They are wonderful quality, 5 years old and still look perfect after heavy use, classic style, nice leather and you can send them to Coach for a spa treatment if you ever need to as well. Why not just enjoy them? *sigh* I am going to just enjoy what I have and save up for my Cerf. Then I think I'll have pretty much every shape/size/style I need until the one day I might get a Birkin/Kelly. Sorry to go a little off topic HH.

Detective Hermès!

my arguement against fakes is that
#1- the product you're getting is of lesser quality (not in the case of the shooting star, obviously)
#2- the item is not "sanctioned" by the designer label (this has to do with lifetime care and service and also a bit of snobbery to tell you the truth)
#3- counterfits are illegal and many times people are victims
#4- fakes fund all sorts of shadey activity including reports of terrorist activity

really, the only thing i find wrong with the shooting star (the only criteria it meets on that list) is that its not sanctioned by Hermes. you're still getting the history, the quality, the love, just not the service or "stamp of approval". if this is extremely important to you, then dont purchase it. but if its low on your priority list and you even find this bag to be collectible and kitschy in a way, then go for it. there really isnt anything else on that horrid list that it relates to. i personally never want to buy anything that corresponds to that list, not even one item, but thats just me.

Orangina

I agree, Croissant. For me, fake bags are awful for the reasons listed above but also because their purpose is to deceive someone into believing the bags are the actual product. (I personally find 'inspired by' products to be a little icky but to each her own...

As for the money not going back to Hermes, that creates a different 'moral' dilemma'. The entire industry of vintage and antique collecting has this issue, no?

Member

Member

HH I think you are right to bring this up- in the other thread I was stuck on the repair factor but on further thought, I wonder if it isn't wrong to encourage a craftsman to sell on the side - and then it's even sadder to think a wife or somebody dumped the bag on the open market - I would feel like I was carrying something I shouldn't be - not a fake - but something that didn't really belong to me no matter that I paid for it - Interesting question

Member

unitedThread Starter

fair points, all of them. i was just going to post a response in shopmom's original thread about her dilemma over a shooting star bag but then my response got a little long and seemed to be a different topic altogether, so thank you all for responding and helping me think about it more. there is something precious about a shooting star bag, no question. all of us H fans seem to really appreciate the handmade aspect and no bag is more handmade then a craftman's personal bag (though certainly none of the other H bags are any less handmade lol).
croissant - i am not talking about victims of fake bags, but people who are happy to save the $ and get a fake instead. they've been criticized for, among other things, cheating the company some how.
someone who buys a shooting star bag is certainly doing the same thing.
gazoo - it is their possession, that's true, so is it just an honor system that hermes is operating on? more or less, but to make it clear to the customers that hermes does not approve this bag to be sold, the shooting star is obviously a corporate stigma. if the time and skill and material that goes into a bag is worth $6k+, that is how much the company is losing everytime one is bought. when a counterfeit or fake or look-a-like or whatever is bought, the company does not lose a dime because it is purchased by someone who obviously will not or cannot spend the $6k.
as for the empathy we can imagine for this poor craftsman who has an imagined medical/family/financial emergency as the impetus for secretly and inappropriately selling his/her bag - they could just as well be doing it to pay for a crack habit, etc. so we don't need to guess the motivation in order to achieve justification. someone might have launched a counterfeit business to pay for some other equally crucial and sympathetic emergency (evidence suggests that more often this is not the case, but either way, i'm saying that we can't use what we don't know to support a position one way or the other).crochetbella thank you so much for your input. that is exactly right, with vintage and resellers the item was first directly and honestly purchased from hermes. the reseller market does compete with hermes, no question, but hermes was fairly compensated for the initial bag. with resellers, the consumer is victimizing herself willingly. personally, i'm willingly victimized (lol) by the absolute seduction of H, and that's all i want now - but i have hung on to 3 or 4 other bags in case they will amuse dd when she is older.
fire-eyed-freak - a shooting star bag is one that is made by an hermes craftsperson for their own personal use. allegedly, hermes will not service a bag with this mark.
miss twilly, i'm never too threatened by someone's use of a fake bag. i don't feel deceived in any way if i see one.