Ranked the top QBs only mentioning a few, but he ranked the rookies up for rookie of the year as:

10. Robert Griffen11. Andrew Luck13. Russell Wilson

What say you?

If you want to watch the video its on the espn NFL page.

Edit. I should add that we should not expect Russell to win the rookie of the year award, especially with media guys like Jaworski and Clayton thinking Luck is more deserving. Isn't it 50 media guys voting on the award anyway?

Andrew Luck does not in any way, shape or form belong before Russell Wilson. Ever.

As a 'Skins fan, I have to say I agree with Griff at one and Wilson would be my two. I might even put Muscle Hamster and Morris ahead of Luck, to be honest. And that's not an indictment on Luck's future, but he leads the league in turnovers because his team is asking him to throw the ball so often. He has comebacks simply because his mistakes put that team in place to need to make comebacks. I also don't buy the argument that Luck deserves credit because his team had the worst record last year. When you trot Curtis Painter, Kerry Collins and god knows who else out at quarterback every week, you're not even trying.

I understand most 'Hawks fans would probably have Griff and Wilson switched. But I said this in the thread I posted yesterday, one thing I think we can all find common ground in is this: As long as Griffin or Wilson win it and it's not Luck, it makes sense and its acceptable.

I'll be honest with you, K-dawg, It's neck-and-neck for me with Wilson and Griffin. I'd be happy with either getting OROY, they've both been spectacular. Completely agree with everything you said about Luck and the Colts. Hate that the media are still all slobbering over Luck.

KDawg_ES wrote:Andrew Luck does not in any way, shape or form belong before Russell Wilson. Ever.

As a 'Skins fan, I have to say I agree with Griff at one and Wilson would be my two. I might even put Muscle Hamster and Morris ahead of Luck, to be honest. And that's not an indictment on Luck's future, but he leads the league in turnovers because his team is asking him to throw the ball so often. He has comebacks simply because his mistakes put that team in place to need to make comebacks. I also don't buy the argument that Luck deserves credit because his team had the worst record last year. When you trot Curtis Painter, Kerry Collins and god knows who else out at quarterback every week, you're not even trying.

I understand most 'Hawks fans would probably have Griff and Wilson switched. But I said this in the thread I posted yesterday, one thing I think we can all find common ground in is this: As long as Griffin or Wilson win it and it's not Luck, it makes sense and its acceptable.

My bias says Wilson > Griffin, especially considering the last 8 weeks (one of which Griffin was out) but I would not be disappointed if Griffin gets the award. It's exciting to see such a talented group of young QBs dominate as they have!

KDawg_ES wrote:Andrew Luck does not in any way, shape or form belong before Russell Wilson. Ever.

As a 'Skins fan, I have to say I agree with Griff at one and Wilson would be my two. I might even put Muscle Hamster and Morris ahead of Luck, to be honest. And that's not an indictment on Luck's future, but he leads the league in turnovers because his team is asking him to throw the ball so often. He has comebacks simply because his mistakes put that team in place to need to make comebacks. I also don't buy the argument that Luck deserves credit because his team had the worst record last year. When you trot Curtis Painter, Kerry Collins and god knows who else out at quarterback every week, you're not even trying.

I understand most 'Hawks fans would probably have Griff and Wilson switched. But I said this in the thread I posted yesterday, one thing I think we can all find common ground in is this: As long as Griffin or Wilson win it and it's not Luck, it makes sense and its acceptable.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. If RW doesn't win it, RG3 should. Luck, IMO, should be third to those guys.

Up until a week ago I thought, in my heart of hearts, that RG3 probably deserved it more. He had substantially more rushing production, had thrown fewer picks (albeit fewer INTs), and had more overall TDs. His QB rating was also substantially higher.

But now they're essentially tied statistically. Either one could win it, and I'm guessing that RG3 will, for whatever reason - but that's fine by me. He deserves it every bit as much as RW. They both deserve it more than Luck. In my heart of hearts, I don't know that I honestly believe either RG3 or RW stand out as 'more deserving' than the other.

jkitsune wrote:But now they're essentially tied statistically. Either one could win it, and I'm guessing that RG3 will, for whatever reason - but that's fine by me. He deserves it every bit as much as RW. They both deserve it more than Luck. In my heart of hearts, I don't know that I honestly believe either RG3 or RW stand out as 'more deserving' than the other.

I've been trying real hard to think of reasons Griffin deserves it over Wilson... But I'm having a hard time coming up with one other than a lack of turnovers. Wilson's thrown 393 passes (2.5% INT rate) and Griff has thrown 393 passes (1.3% INT rate). Griffin also has more rush TDs and rush yards. But then Wilson has six more passing touchdowns. They're so neck and neck it's crazy. Those six more touchdowns actually translate to him having more touchdowns in total.

I don't think you can go wrong with having either one of these guys as your franchise quarterback or rookie of the year. Both of our teams hit the lottery with these guys

Jaws is old school. He believes in only one offensive system... straight back dropping QB that stays in the pocket and does not attempt to run except for when his receivers are all covered. RGIII and Russell Wilson will never out-rank QBs like Manning(s), Rodgers, and Flacco.

jkitsune wrote:But now they're essentially tied statistically. Either one could win it, and I'm guessing that RG3 will, for whatever reason - but that's fine by me. He deserves it every bit as much as RW. They both deserve it more than Luck. In my heart of hearts, I don't know that I honestly believe either RG3 or RW stand out as 'more deserving' than the other.

I've been trying real hard to think of reasons Griffin deserves it over Wilson... But I'm having a hard time coming up with one other than a lack of turnovers. Wilson's thrown 393 passes (2.5% INT rate) and Griff has thrown 393 passes (1.3% INT rate). Griffin also has more rush TDs and rush yards. But then Wilson has six more passing touchdowns. They're so neck and neck it's crazy. Those six more touchdowns actually translate to him having more touchdowns in total.

I don't think you can go wrong with having either one of these guys as your franchise quarterback or rookie of the year. Both of our teams hit the lottery with these guys

Agreed. Which is why I feel so incredibly lucky that our team was able to hit the lottery in the third round. RG3 is a hell of a player, but he was an expensive one for you guys (albeit well worth it).

GREEDY PUNK PAUL ALLEN, THIS LOSS IS ON YOU."I don't give a crap WHAT you gotta pay, Kam is worth it and I don't want to lose a shot at another SB cuz you - a freaking BILLIONAIRE, are cheapskating Kam over a freaking $900,000.You cheapskate." SalishHawkFan SEP 13, 2015 1:47 PM

This is a best qb list right? That is very different from a rookie of the year list. You could rank RW as higher on a OROY but put Luck higher on the qb ranking. The list should also take body of work into account and then IMHO all the top 10 qbs belong as better qbs than any of the 3 rookies. Get back to me after the playoffs and I will be ready to re-review that..... then lets see how next year goes.

If this was last year everyone would have said Cam Newton should be a top 5 on that list with this mentality. Did you say so? And if so where does he belong today........

No issue with the list - no real difference between 11, 12 and 13

Hope we win on Sunday, RW throws 4td's and RG3 throws 4 int's - that is all that matters

In my thread about Colin Cowherd's picks I listed some stats about Luck and Washington. He interviewed one of the bet makers from Las Vegas that had some really cool stats. Some great info on his show today about the Colts and the Redskins. I would recommend the podcast, I think it's free?

"interesting facts from the "Wise Guy" Colin had on the show: "Andrew Luck has more INTs than TDs on the road."

Roethlisburger is a damn good QB, even if I hate the team, and I have no problem rating him or Eli above the rookies. Also, I think some of the rankings are a lifetime type thing, which is a disadvantage to new players. Eli Manning had a poor 2nd half of the season, but people aren't going to forget how amazing he's been in the postseason the last few years, and his SB wins....just like Big Ben had an off year(for him), but still put up good stats and played well.

Personally, I think they had Stafford ranked too low there. I also don't agree with Shaub and Ryan. Sure, they have great numbers, but right now, they aren't proven winners, at least Ryan isn't in the postseason. But then again, no rookie is a proven postseason winner yet either, so I guess it makes sense.

As for RGIII, Luck and Wilson, these are the arguments I've heard that make sense:

RGIII isn't asked to do as much. He has a 2 read passing offense, and runs a college offense. The SKins tailored his Baylor offense to ease his transition, so while he has production, he actually hasn't run much of an NFL offense.

Luck has been asked to do more. He has talent around him, has had to pass more to win games (thus upping his INT totals), and he's actually been handed the keys to the ENTIRE offense from day 1. He's been asked to do everything that Brady, Peyton Manning and Rodgers has, and he's handled it. He's making rookies around him better players, and he has as many rushing TD's as Wilson does believe it or not.

Wilson wasn't handed the keys to the offense right away, and there were some growing pains. I think a lot of his INT's were off the hands of his WRs, and while that has something to do with pass placement, I also think people completely disregard that fact and just claim he has more than RGIII. The national perception is that he started slowlly and grew into the player he is, while Griffin was hot right away (going back to the college/pro argument here). The production and numbers are roughly the same between RGIII and Wilson, so it's become a toss up between the two.

Get used to Wilson not winning RoY. If it was a fan vote, he'd have a chance, but it's an Associated Press vote, and it's shockingly come to the point where fans are more informed than most of the people covering the sport.

RiggoReincarnated wrote:I think both RGIII and Wilson graduated in 3 years as well. The era of the "dumb black running QB" seems to be over.

Jesus, Redskins fans are racist. I'm not saying you believe, or have ever believed, in what you quoted; but that you'd even bring it up is just like...Wow. You guys see racism everywhere. Even places where it doesn't exist. (Cough, our forum.)

Not to mention Griffin plays on the East coast, not going to be a shock that Griffin wins it. (Albeit, he has played very well this year)

Hawks46 probably made the best case for Luck I've heard but if Luck played as well as Griffin or Wilson have, which is admittedly unfair, then no one would be taking about Griffin or Wilson winning it.

I don't know, I just want the QB playing for Seattle to have the most wins when it's said and done this year.

RiggoReincarnated wrote:I think both RGIII and Wilson graduated in 3 years as well. The era of the "dumb black running QB" seems to be over.

Jesus, Redskins fans are racist. I'm not saying you believe, or have ever believed, in what you quoted; but that you'd even bring it up is just like...Wow. You guys see racism everywhere. Even places where it doesn't exist. (Cough, our forum.)

I gotta second that, Roland. Sheesh, I had no idea that was even an era. Was it a storied era, an epic era, or just a dumbass thing to say era?

As I understand it the ROY ballots are collected before the playoffs begin. If that is true, what happens if RG-III wins OROY and then RW beats RG-III & Washington convincingly - then wins out through subsequent playoff games/Super Bowl? This is well within probabilities, so what happens then? Maybe that is why a co-OROY would make a lot of sense. They are both excellent QB's and are very close in many peoples minds, but why is it that the ROY's have to be judged after the regular season, playoff excellence doesn't count????

LawHawk wrote:ELI MANNING???? SCHAUB? FLACCO? WTF??? I can see Ryan and Brees, maybe Roethlisberger. But no way no way no way is Eli Manning or Joe Flacco or Matt Schaub better than our boy.

I think there's a bit of bias going back to Jaworski's playing days. He was a game manager just like Shaub and CrackHoe (Flacco). I'll give Eli the benefit of the doubt because he's definitely better than CrackHoe and Shaub when the game is on his shoulders...he also has a couple if SB's notched in his belt. Wilson would have to have a larger body of evidence and some SB wins to beat him.

jkitsune wrote:But now they're essentially tied statistically. Either one could win it, and I'm guessing that RG3 will, for whatever reason - but that's fine by me. He deserves it every bit as much as RW. They both deserve it more than Luck. In my heart of hearts, I don't know that I honestly believe either RG3 or RW stand out as 'more deserving' than the other.

I've been trying real hard to think of reasons Griffin deserves it over Wilson... But I'm having a hard time coming up with one other than a lack of turnovers. Wilson's thrown 393 passes (2.5% INT rate) and Griff has thrown 393 passes (1.3% INT rate). Griffin also has more rush TDs and rush yards. But then Wilson has six more passing touchdowns. They're so neck and neck it's crazy. Those six more touchdowns actually translate to him having more touchdowns in total.

I don't think you can go wrong with having either one of these guys as your franchise quarterback or rookie of the year. Both of our teams hit the lottery with these guys

New to the forum but I've been a Seahawk's fan since before probably half of you were born (aka when they started).

Niceties out of the way, I don't know that you could call RG3 a lottery ticket. The Skins paid a heavy price for him (to the Lambs no less) to get him. He's an expensive but very sound and profitable investment. For the price paid, Five-Eighths (my unsuccessful nickname for him) blows away RG3 as an investment and imo can be easily called a lottery win. That said, I am the opposite of you in that I can't think of a reason to give it to Five Eights over RG3. The only chance he had of pulling an upset would be to have RG3 have an off game (which he did, but obviously that was unknown at the time) and for FE to have another outstanding game. Which he didn't. So the upset probably won't happen, though it's still possible. However, I would rather them have to go through adversity and witness the leadership of the little guy and fight back for a win than to go into DC without having to actually claw through a game for 4 straight games. As much as I'd love to see him win it, I'd rather increase our chances of having a game to watch next weekend.

RiggoReincarnated wrote:I think both RGIII and Wilson graduated in 3 years as well. The era of the "dumb black running QB" seems to be over.

I too am curious to know who belongs in that "era" I mean do black quarterbacks like; Doug Williams, Warren Moon, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Randall Cunningham, and Daunte Culpepper belong to this era? I seem to recall all these particular quarterbacks to be exemplary. Or perhaps you're talking about the one or two that everyone likes to talk about, JeMarcus Russell and Vince Young and more or less bagging on Vick, to some people have to agree that he is (was) a great athlete and a good quarterback (good not great). If that is the case, regarding (JeMarcus) Russell and Young as an "era" is pretty asinine. More like bad picks that didn't work out.

RiggoReincarnated wrote:I think both RGIII and Wilson graduated in 3 years as well. The era of the "dumb black running QB" seems to be over.

I too am curious to know who belongs in that "era" I mean do black quarterbacks like; Doug Williams, Warren Moon, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Randall Cunningham, and Daunte Culpepper belong to this era? I seem to recall all these particular quarterbacks to be exemplary. Or perhaps you're talking about the one or two that everyone likes to talk about, JeMarcus Russell and Vince Young and more or less bagging on Vick, to some people have to agree that he is (was) a great athlete and a good quarterback (good not great). If that is the case, regarding (JeMarcus) Russell and Young as an "era" is pretty asinine. More like bad picks that didn't work out.

I just meant in general. It was a big deal for Doug Williams to win the Super Bowl because previously there was a stereotype amongst much of the NFL that a black quarterback never could lead at that position.

One thing is for sure, both RGIII and Wilson have the mental acuity the latter 2 you mentioned would dream to have. The ones you mentioned as exemplary, I agree. Though only Moon I feel warrants Hall of Fame material for what he did over the duration of his career....Super Bowl victory or not.

Jaworski has NEVER liked RW. I have listened to him consistently on Mike and Mike and he always says "RW is a nice story, but Luck is better than RW". He doesn't like running QBs. He likes QBs like Manning, who sit in the pocket and throws.But, what bothers me about people like Jaworski is, he will have all types of praises for Rothlisberger for his "Ability to extend plays and get out of the pocket and throws". How different is Rookie Rothlisberger and Russell Wilson? The only difference is size. Unfortunately , RW can't grow to become as tall or Roth. In a couple of years, Johny Mainzel will be coming out of college. He is barely 6ft tall, but he is an excellent runner. I have no doubt nobody will question his size or arm strength.

Here is Ron Jaworski prior to the 2011 NF Draft:Ron Jaworski knows what it takes to be an NFL quarterback. He was a pretty good one, after all. The former Eagle and current ESPN analyst did his homework on the top quarterbacks in the draft, watching hours of tape, and ranked the top seven as such: (1) Blaine Gabbert, Missouri; (2) Newton, Auburn; (3) Colin Kaepernick, Nevada; (4) Christian Ponder, Florida State; (5) Ryan Mallett, Arkansas; (6) Jake Locker, Washington; (7) Andy Dalton, TCU.Here is the source:http://articles.philly.com/2011-04-28/sports/29483327_1_ryan-mallett-nfl-quarterback-blaine-gabbert

well riggo, do appreciate the attempt to explain yourself, but ya that's pretty bad, and just an unecessary comment, observation, whatever you want to call it... it's 2013 , not the 60's, at least on the west coast anyways...