I'm glad to see another version of the dough recipe. I look forward to trying this one and hopefully I can get it right this time.

I wanted to make my own Buddy's clone the other day but I was out of flour unfortunately. Rather than go a day without eating pizza I decided to visit Buddy's instead. I got two slices from the point plaza location and have the pictures shown below. It was good but the pictures PizzaHog posted looks more appetizing.

Great job Pizza Hog. Your pizza looks awesome. Your pizza looks more like Buddy's than the picture of Buddy's pizza by Dice. My dad knew "Old Man Buddy" back in the day and he said the pizza is different that what it is today. He made Pizza Hog's pizza and said it is pretty close. I cannot wait to try the new recipe.

DiceNo prebake, just pile everything on and into the oven. Remember my formula is without a scale at this point so my hydration % is prob off a bit. Having said that, pick a number between 70 and 75% and you should be in the ballpark. At "my" 70% 15 mins at 450 baked up right, and at 75% 15 mins at 475.Grilled PizzaThanks, and I definitely agree something is going on with Buddy's. The Buddy's I bought last week looked just like the photo you posted and not like this http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg73872.html#msg73872, and the tastes and textures were quite diff too. Like you said, still good, but like your Dad stated, not what it once was. At least at the locations we have visited. I guess a visit to the original location might be diff? But I was going for as much of the Detroit Style of old with this as I could which now unfortunately is from memory.Good Luck!Hog

The cheese for Buddy's pizza is a special blend, there is only one wholesaler who carries it for them, they have the exclusive to sell it. The wholesalers name is Dairy Fresh products, they are located in Allen Park, MI

I made the new version for lunch and it was the best of all the Buddy's clones I have attempted. This one was by far the most manageable at 75% hydration and a welcome change from trying to knead a 96% hydration dough. The dough finally turned out at the correct thickness. I cooked it at 460 for 15 minutes. It was a little burnt on top but the crust could have used another minute. Next time I try this I am going to go with a 1.5 minute par-bake to try to compensate.

No, Grilled Pizza, just a home cook and pizza lover like many others but thank you! My only "professional" experience was delivering pizza's in high school for Dino's if anyone remembers them .

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It was a little burnt on top but the crust could have used another minute.

If this helps, I have found baking on the lowest oven rack gets everything done at the same time. It also seems the pan I use which is 3" tall and thus much higher than the height of the dough may help keep some of the heat off the top. Not positive though.

Getting to this point on this pizza was the result of everyone's input, research, suggestions and experiences. Everything I ended up doing is in this thread somewhere which shows how great this forum and its moderators and members are. So thanks again to all and pizzamkingdotcom!

I had a pizza disaster. The dough did not rise and the cheese was burnt.

Some person told me to mix the yeast with hot water. (100 degrees). Did not work on this pizza. I had to throw it out.

GrilledPizza,

Did you actually measure the water temperature? If you used active dry yeast (ADY), the recommended rehydration temperature is around 105 degrees F, for about 10 minutes. Even if you used instant dry yeast (IDY), which doesn't require hydration, you should have been OK. ADY can tolerate a few degrees warmer water if it is not allowed to sit in the water for more than a few minutes. The higher the water temperature above about 105 degrees F, the greater the potential harm to the IDY. It will die at around 146 degrees F, usually in a pizza dough as it bakes in the oven.

Grail SeekerGlad it worked and wish I could have seen some photos!Bummer the pie did not come together Grilled Pizza, but that is what experiments are for and I have had a few of those for sure. The white cheddars I have tried so far are very heat tolerant so am wondering if it might have been the mozz that burnt? I have also used up to 95 degree water to rush things along with good results but never soaked the IDY first.Every taster and guest has also raved about the white cheddar. Whoda thunk! Had pizza guests over last night and baked up a few more of these. As is now customary, all guests bring some toppings of their choice. Too harried get any photos last night but kept this leftover slice. This was the last pie which has also become customary to be the "kitchen sink". Every topping applied and this one was just over the top and could not quite contain it all. Quite messy and non Detroitish but the correct crisp, texture and cheese crust were there although the extra few minutes I left it in the oven due to its mammoth weight was prob just one too long.I'm starting to get a better feel for this dough and now am targeting a bit under 75%. For me this is one teaspoon less of flour than previously posted but so far I like the results better. Next will be using beer vs water as suggested by future_itisnow for a flavor boost and looking forward to tasting that.

Maybe you have posted it before, but can you tell us the precise cheese blend you are using, in terms of the types and forms of the cheeses (e.g., shredded, grated, etc.) and the amounts of each used, either by volume or weight, for a particular size pizza? When I was experimenting with Papa Gino's clone pizzas, which use a blend of mozzarella cheese, white cheddar cheese and grated Romano cheese, I came to like that blend very much. I ended up using a sharp NY white cheddar cheese, which was one of the few white cheddar cheeses that I could find in my local supermarket at a reasonable price, and I found the sharpness to be to my liking. I actually liked my blend better than what PG uses.

I did not get the temp. I brought the water to boil then removed it from the heat. Then I mixed the yeast. What I failed to mention was I had too much water and tried to boil some off after I mixed the yeast. I am sure the temp was above 146 and this is what killed my pizza. I should have just added more flour. What was I thinking.

PeterSo far I have used straight white cheddar and blend with mozz (low moisture part skim and whole). All the Det style pizzerias have some diffs in their cheese/blends but they all share the white cheddar type flavor, or did in the past. As far as cloning any of them, including Buddy's, I cannot say with any confidence since I only used Buddy's for controls and now that I am ready to work on the cheese, Buddy's has gone and made another change it seems.One of my and my pizza buddies fond memories back when all these pies were single location entities was the cheese flavor and consistency. When the pie was brought out piping hot and still sizzling, removing a slice too soon resulted in a cheese lahar and by the time one returned to remove a second slice, the hole from the first slice was filled in by melted flowing cheese. The closest I have come to that ideal is to use pure cheddar on the edges as nothing else yet has caramelized correctly, then fill in the rest with a blend with the gooey-est mozz I can find. Still working out the details but with a very sharp cheddar like the Cabot extra sharp from Walmart the Det flavor still shines thru and the mozz helps get it flowing.Cubed small and shredded from the typical hand grater we all have lying around both work OK although it is easier to pile the shreds on the edges and have it stay there. Peter, you mentioned using your cuisinart to shred cheese. Are you using the disk or just letting the blade have at it? I would like to try your method to try and duplicate the type of shred your Buddy's photo showed. I am thinking that may be a part of getting the cheese crust standing higher and closer to the ideal.ThanksHog

Peter, you mentioned using your cuisinart to shred cheese. Are you using the disk or just letting the blade have at it?

Hog,

I just use the metal blade that came with my Cuisinart food processor. That results in a diced cheese, not a shredded cheese. I do the dicing while the cheese is on the cool side, right out of the refrigerator.

I had to redeem myself after yesterday's pizza disaster. I decided to make it a little thicker crust with a high hydration. Also did a Crisco/Butter mixture with corn meal on the bottom of the pan. Turned out great. Now I can sleep at night.

Thanks Hog. I would have to say this was the best pizza I have eaten in years. It tasted as good as it looks. I added fresh Cilantro before the cheese and fresh Basil on top of all the toppings. AHHHHH! I don't live near MI, but I loved Buddy's when I was there. This forum has brought back so many memories of great pizza. I emailed Buddy's a few weeks ago to see if they would consider a franchise here in Colorado, but no word back from the owner. If we we keep this forum going we might figure it out.

If you get a chance visit Speakeasy in Washington, MI. Great pizza. It's a hole in the wall, but good. I worked there for awhile. It is located on Van Dyke and West Road (between 26-27 mile road).

Each picture is actually a different pizza. For all of these I used the 75% hydration ratio. I also left these all overnight. On the first pizza I used 1% yeast, 2nd .75% yeast, and the third .7%. The first one was par-baked for one minute but the crust was still a little underdone. The second pizza I par-baked for two minutes and still had a bit of an underdone crust. The first two pizzas were cooked at 475 but my oven is a little off. On the third pizza I upped the oven temperature ten degrees and skipped the par-bake. The last pizza turned out amazing and is everything I ever wanted from this recipe. This crust was as close to Buddy's as some of the other Detroit pizza places.

I wanted to wait until I got the crust right before I worried about the cheese. I have been to Kroger, Farmer Jacks, and Meijer but couldn't find any white cheddar. I have seen regular cheddar but no white. I don't think there is any difference but I am kind of a stickler for details. Where do you guys get your white cheddar from? I'm sure Roselli's probably carries it but I have never bothered to look. Also do you use mild or regular white cheddar?

Sweet dice, glad you found your sweet spot!White and yellow cheddar seem quite diff to me and I don't think yellow will give you the Buddy's crust or flavor.But you should be able to find "Boars Head Vermont" white cheddar at most any decent Italian market/deli, not in chunks but behind the counter. Nino Salvaggio's has/had it on sale recently, Vince & Joe's carries it, and if Pete & Franks is still in business in your area I bet they would have it.The new Walmart on Hall Rd & Romeo Plank sells "Cabot Extra Sharp" white cheddar in 2 pound blocks at half the price of Boars Head, but not sure if every Walmart carries it. These are the only two I have tried so far but Nino's has a few more that might work in chunks that are around the same price as Boars Head.I don't think Roselli's sells white cheddar, at least they did not display it in the refrig case the last time I was there. But they sell lots of stuff they do not display although those items are usually only avail in large quantities, like 20 - 40 lbs at a crack. I will ask next time I am there and if they have something that sounds good maybe we could hook up and split an order. Plus, I have found at these larger quantities the prices tend to be really low. In my limited experience I would say you are looking for sharp or extra sharp white cheddar. Come to think of it, I believe every white cheddar I have looked at was at least labeled as sharp.

Great work Dice. Krogers will have it. They are the same as King Soopers here in Colorado. It is not located in the deli section, but where all the block cheese is located. I asked the guy at first and he told me they do not carry White Cheddar. Then I went to the cheese lady and she showed me where the block was. Hope this helps.

The problem was that I was looking for mild white cheddar. I went to the store and got a pound of Cabot Vermont Extra Sharp cheese for five dollars. I tried it out today with a blend of half mozzarella and half cheddar. I used all cheddar in one section and that tasted pretty good. I was a little sceptical about it turning out well since when I think of cheddar cheese I think of the goldfish crackers.

Baked up two more of these this weekend, except used beer (Killian's Irish Red is what I had in the fridge) for 75% of the formula water. Interestingly, the biggest change was in the texture, which seemed moister but more dense although the crumb was quite open. The baked dough was also less white, I assume from the red beer, and I was surprised that taste-wise the beer only added a subtle difference. I should have done a side by side to be sure though. Anyway it was quite good and got thumbs up from my tasters.One non Det with pesto and pep on top, and one clone version.

Baked up two more of these this weekend, except used beer (Killian's Irish Red is what I had in the fridge) for 75% of the formula water. Interestingly, the biggest change was in the texture, which seemed moister but more dense although the crumb was quite open. The baked dough was also less white, I assume from the red beer, and I was surprised that taste-wise the beer only added a subtle difference. I should have done a side by side to be sure though. Anyway it was quite good and got thumbs up from my tasters.One non Det with pesto and pep on top, and one clone version.

PizzaHog,

Your pies look delicious! Adding the beer as part of the formula water is interesting. Both pies sound tasty.