But then when Splinter finds the book on ninjutsu he doesn’t exactly learn from it, but it helps jog the memory of a previous existence as Hamato Yoshi. And his sons also pick up these skills rather easily as well and maybe have hints such as maybe Mikey or someone off handedly mention having weird dreams or finding strange how they seemed to have mastered their skills so easily and how it feels like they’ve learned these skills before.

But IF so, that's something that had to be explored in the movie. And not just fart-jokes and explosions.

Both films were very lazy on portraying the characters and showing them interact. And the "learning-ninjutsu-from-the-book-solution" was very much the same lazy for me.

It was the result of reshoots and last minute changes. In the version they shot, Splinter is taught ninjutsu in the lab by watching martial arts movies

Which is just as stupid.

There isn't really a way to handle how Splinter knows martial arts that isn't outlandish but there degrees of just how ridiculous and I maintain ways to depict that wont come off as too outlandish.

I've always maintained the simplest way to do the comic origin is that the mutagen simply awakened the memories of watching Hamato Yoshi for hours on end for years. As soon as he gained sentience he understood what he had seen but hey that's just one rout you could go and one that points how bad the movie origin was as it did away with the most important aspect; Their connection to the Shredder. That is what is important.

Also we don't really know that they were going to go the kung fu movie rout. We know it was planned as it was story boarded but we don't know if it was ever filmed and even if it was, would it be necessary to change that aspect in the re-shoots? What difference does it make to the whole Sachs/Saki angle that they had to change it. What does it say about their approach that it comes unraveled so easily? They come up with this big complex modern, fanboy kewel origin and and the best they could come up with to explain one of the most important aspects of the franchise, something that is in the title is "well he watched some kung fu movies" or "he read it in a book he found".

Well, there are things you can learn from books and there are things you can't learn from books.
What I find a little ....puzzling...isn't so much the learning, but the practicing.
To get good at anything, especially something intensely physical like martial arts, you have to DO it, and do it a LOT.
How did Splinter practice ?
Without getting noticed.

Maybe it can be used as an explanation as to why the Turtles didn't do much of it in the second film. After events of the first film and the time between, they came to realize that dad is somewhat like those guys on YouTube who think they know anything, what they were taught may not quite be as legit or the proper ways as they once believed, and Splinter relies on rat traits as an asset that they can't make use of anyhow.

The learned from a book origin was terrible, no matter how you look at it.

The funny part is, you could even take what was said right in the movie, and fix the origin. If you recall, Sachs told April a story about how a 9th century Japanese warlord poisoned the water supply, and a Japanese alchemist created the mutagen to cure the disease the poison caused. Well, in East Asian alchemy, the alchemist will often infuse some of his own ki/chi/essence into their elixir, to give it power. So, a thousand years later, when that elixir is used on four turtles and a rat, they grow into humanoids, gain human-level intelligence, and the rat dresses in a Japanese style and can read Japanese, and all five pick up martial arts easily from a book they found in a storm drain, as if they already knew martial arts. (alchemy in east Asia usually comes from Daoism, which also practices 'internal alchemy' -in other words, martial arts) Those traits the turtles and splinter probably came from the alchemist who infused his essence into the Mutagen.

Bam! Instant origin, based solely on what we see in the movie! Again all we would've needed was a line or two of dialogue in the film to confirm it! ><

(and no, a line from a nine year old April that 'the ooze came from space' doesn't hold up, that's just a little kid talking. And also no, Krang's ooze doesn't count either, that's purple and works differently.)

(and no, a line from a nine year old April that 'the ooze came from space' doesn't hold up, that's just a little kid talking. And also no, Krang's ooze doesn't count either, that's purple and works differently.)

I think April's father should've been Splinter in these movies and I still would've liked it if better if Eric Sachs was the Shredder.

I don't mind the learning from a book idea so much, despite it being pretty out there even by tmnt standards, and I couldn't care less if Shredder and Splinter were not Japanese, but atleast make them interesting.

If Splinter was April's father and he witnessed the burning of his labratory (as well as the supposed death of his daughter in the fire), there would be alot more weight to the Splinter vs Shredder rivalry rather than just Shredder being a random accomplince to Sachs who happens to stumble upon the path of the turtles.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

The biggest villains were the censors.
What they could do without being held back is my question.
Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building.
I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.
Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.

I think April's father should've been Splinter in these movies and I still would've liked it if better if Eric Sachs was the Shredder.

I don't mind the learning from a book idea so much, despite it being pretty out there even by tmnt standards, and I couldn't care less if Shredder and Splinter were not Japanese, but atleast make them interesting.

If Splinter was April's father and he witnessed the burning of his labratory (as well as the supposed death of his daughter in the fire), there would be alot more weight to the Splinter vs Shredder rivalry rather than just Shredder being a random accomplince to Sachs who happens to stumble upon the path of the turtles.

FredWolf, I am imagining Cubed's face when he wakes up and sees this
I don't want to see Shredder not Japanese either though especially given the character origin. Agreed that they could have had more to them though.

I was new to TMNT (only vague memory of it before then) when I saw these but I remember thinking it seemed at bit weak that their master learned it from a book, and one single book? at that,. not that more books and DVDs would have been a lot better though

It's not even from his tentacles even. It's like...under his jaw or something. Everything about it just not like the rest of the normal mucus. It comes so close to my depiction of Utrom anatomy that it's just a little more gross than it is initially

But, considering he's completely fused himself to the exo suit, that's the least of his problems.

Okay, first... Ewww. lol I don't think I ever paid close enough attention to that. I think my attention has always largely been on how utterly unfazed Shredder is by what is happening. I know he's not right in the head, but come on. lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

If Splinter was April's father and he witnessed the burning of his labratory (as well as the supposed death of his daughter in the fire), there would be alot more weight to the Splinter vs Shredder rivalry rather than just Shredder being a random accomplince to Sachs who happens to stumble upon the path of the turtles.

Would be an interesting angle for sure, and would change the story perspective making it Splinter going after Shredder rather Shredder just being Sach's attack robot doing his bidding and Splinter previously just living life and trying to keep the Turtles prisoner in their own home.

Did Splinter still not trust his own book learning/teaching and other wisdom if he didn't trust that the Turtles, despite how big and strong they'd grown, would be safe out in the world? When they have to sneak out to go experience the world on their own, that is sad. (Seriously, those Turtles probably would have loved Disney's Rapunzel film and found some of it relatable. I'm surprised there was never any crossover art; esp young Turtles watching out the storm grate similar to young Rapunzel out her window.)

Although... I'd still prefer that Yoshi is Splinter (perhaps a former lab tech in this scenario, something I'd considered long ago), putting him back into the story, and keep Shredder Asian.

Their main fumbling point imo is their not so "brilliant" idea to go create a bad guy business man aka Eric Sachs/Sacks (how boring can you get?) when he should have just been white Baxter instead. (If Sachs is the proper spelling, it didn't even quite occur to me until somewhat recently that he shares a name with Goldman Sachs... the company that likewise profited by screwing people over. Are the makers just in the same mindset or is it commentary on that whole crisis?)