US to scrap plans for missile shield in Europe: WSJ

So according to Obama's doctrine, is Russia gonna allow U.S. destroyers and missile frigates in the Black Sea? Yeah I don't think so either. From a
common sense tactical sense that would be the ideal spot to do what Obama is claiming we will do.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
We just traded our missiles in europe, for backing against Iran.
Its obvious!

That's exactly what just happened. Does anyone here actually think its just a coincidence that this event occurred on the 70th anniversary of the
Soviet invasion of Poland?

Hardly.

The Russians won on two fronts. They got the missile shield out of eastern Europe, but they also managed to get the US to crap all over one of its
stronger allies in the process...all to buy a pass from Russia to act against Iran, whether through sanctions or military action.

Originally posted by djvexd
So according to Obama's doctrine, is Russia gonna allow U.S. destroyers and missile frigates in the Black Sea? Yeah I don't think so either. From a
common sense tactical sense that would be the ideal spot to do what Obama is claiming we will do.

Yes this ^^ I was hoping to hear more about these plans. Is there any more sources referring to this?

I was listening to this story on the radio earlier and it was announced that the missile shield was to be scrapped and that the navy would possess the
defenses on their ships instead.

So does this mean there will be a permanent navy presence in middle east?

My guess this is just a concession by Obama so Russia will overlook Israel attacking Iranian nuclear facilities. Israeli PM just visited Moscow, and
today we are seeing in the news that Iran has the ability to now make a nuclear weapon again. They are also working on a missle for delivery.

I think another person had it right, less than 6 months and Iran will have a lot of smoking craters. I wonder what will happen with the nuclear
facility built in a heavily populated area? If those people have a clue they shouild pack up and get the hell out of dodge before nuclear fallout is
kicked up from the bunker busters.

Originally posted by habfan1968
At the end of this the real winner is Iran. They continue to snub the international community and pursue nuclear arms(debatable) and once they have
it then the real threats will start. Book it.

Iran don't state to pursue nuclear arms, they have always stated that their nuclear program is for energy only.

And the real threats have already been made. Israel are continually threatening military strikes on their nuclear plant(s?) & constantly nudging the
US to do the dirty work for them. Which is kinda logical really, given Israel's population is 7.5 million whereas Iran's population is 10 times
that, war wouldn't be in their best interests

Ironically, this small country threatening Iran because of their research into nuclear energy already has nuclear technology & weapons themselves as
well as other sophisticated weapons given to them by the US.

These bases never had a damn thing to do with Iran or Iranian missiles.

The danger to Europe from Iran is practically nil - if Iran nukes the EU, the EU has two nuclear powers each fully capable of turning Iran into a
radioactive parking lot.

They were put there to tweak the Russians, in hopes of bring the Cold War back, which was a taxpayer-funded feeding frenzy for the defense sector.
Same as the expansion of NATO. Good riddance to a bad idea.

Looks like the way has been cleared for an attack on Iran, for sure. We're probably looking at weeks rather than months too. I wonder if we'll ever
hear all the details of what went on behind the scenes......that mysterious Russian cargo ship going missing.....Israeli PM vanishing off to Russia
for a secret meeting. I think the answer is that some serious "wheeling and dealing" went on.

The missile shield was an obvious bargaining chip right from the start - a two year old could have worked that out. Still, it worked all the same

I've always wondered why we have to spend billions of dollars to
defend other sovereign nations against attacks from their neighbors.
Why can't the CIA simply get rid of the most threatening dictators
through some means that makes their deaths look like an accident?
You'd think that we'd certainly have the technology to do so by now!
Disposing of the lunatics in this way would saves countless innocent
lives and allow the billions of dollars to be invested in ways that
make the world a better place. -cwm

Russian reticence stems from a number of sources. Given the West's reluctance to business with Tehran, Russian companies have found lucrative
opportunities in Iran. Russo-Iranian trade has expanded rapidly, with turnover exceeding $3 billion last year, and slated to grow rapidly in the
coming years. Much Russo-Iranian trade is in sectors considered strategically important by the Kremlin. Tehran is a major customer for Russia's
defense industry, and Russian gas monopoly Gazprom is involved in developing Iran's vast South Pars gas field. Russia is also deeply involved in
Iran's overt nuclear program, with firms connected to the Ministry of Atomic Energy building the reactor complex at Bushehr.

Despite their disagreements over Tehran's pursuit of nuclear weapons, Russia and Iran have forged a close diplomatic partnership elsewhere. This
partnership took root during the late 1990s, when Moscow and Tehran worked together closely to end the bloody civil war in Tajikistan. Previously,
Russia accused Iran of training and supplying Islamist guerrillas from Russia's North Caucasus during the first war in Chechnya (1994-96), and of
exporting Islamic radicalism to Russia's neighbors in Central Asia. By the time the second war in Chechnya began in 1999, the Russo-Iranian
rapprochement was already underway, and Iranian intervention was not an issue.

Originally posted by djvexd
So according to Obama's doctrine, is Russia gonna allow U.S. destroyers and missile frigates in the Black Sea? Yeah I don't think so either. From a
common sense tactical sense that would be the ideal spot to do what Obama is claiming we will do.

Nah! Anybody look at a map lately? Russia doesn't have any say about what ships get into the Black Sea. Turkey does. There's these little
chokepoints called the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straights. Both are controlled by Turkey. Things get hot and Turkey gets pressured, they can deny
passage to US ships, or if somebody scuttles a few ships in the passage they can block the straights. If the US can get a few ships in there, then
resupply can become a problem.

The passage of US warships through the Straits also raised controversy, as the convention forbids the transit of non-Black Sea nations' warships
with guns of a calibre larger than eight inches (203 mm). In the 1960s, the US sent warships carrying 305 mm calibre ASROC missiles through the
Straits, prompting Soviet protests. The Turkish government rejected the Soviet complaints, pointing out that guided missiles were not guns and that
such weapons had not even existed at the time of the Convention's agreement so were not restricted

in 2008 south ossetia war , the US wanted to send 10 ships in - instead they send 3 frigates instead of 2 hospital ships

This is just another move by our President showing his inability to maneuver in international waters, if you will. He is clearly not astute enough to
tangle with the Russians and their strong-man Vladimir Putin. He is playing President Obama like a fiddle and he doesn't even know it. Make no
mistake, the Russian can be a pleasant host at face value, but behind the scenes, they are scheming and sizing up their opponent at all times. They
are clever politicians who are leaps ahead of the US and theirs. The Russian are masters of Machiavellian principles. They play chess while our
elected leaders play checkers.

As for Poland losing the missile defense shield, it breaks my heart, because it is the homeland of my Grandfather, and to look back at how they were
screwed by the Germans, the Allies, and the Russians after the war; it is a travesty. I have a strong affinity for Poland and the Polish people, not
just because of my heritage, but for their ingenuity, strength, and resolve. They showed it when they beat back the Bolsheviks in the Polish-Soviet
War 1919-1921, their largely non-collaborative efforts with the Nazis during the occupation, and the Solidarity Movement which led to the break up the
Warsaw Pact.

Now they have to look down the barrel of the Russian gun once again and tangle with that ferocious beast alone. Being in such close proximity of a
re-emergence of Russian strength, I would be terrified if was living in Poland. I am not a fan of President Regan, but I respect how he stood toe to
toe with the Soviet Union despite the calls of the so-called experts calling him crazy. He is probably rolling over in his grave after this recent
debacle by the Obama Administration. Last I checked, Poland was not behind the Iron Curtain but a sovereign nation entitled to make defense decisions
on it's own and if the US wants to help an ally, let the Russians moan and groan. It's not Russia's decision any longer but Poland and the Czech
Republic. Just my two cents and an issue that is very personal to me.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
Well, I know some people are going to be happy. Americans getting out of the EU, leaving some countries open, say Georgia.

And for those that think this'll bring sharper sanctions against Iran, remember this a few months from now when Israel has to go it alone against
Iran when america has shown itself to be the weak sister of the world and does nothing.

Obama = Carter.

Weak? Obama could go to meetings with russia wearing a nappy and a bib.Wouldn't change the fact that america has an absolute huge military that would
make any country tremble in their boots.And this is good news anyway,Iran is not a threat to anyone.The whole ordeal is just war propaganda for the
masses who lap up such garbage.

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