There is, logistically and philosophically, a VAST difference between "let's figure out in advance how and where to save a representative example or two of an iconic Amtrak locomotive" versus "Call Amtrak today and tell them to stop scrapping the locomotives I promised to find homes for but haven't moved off their property yet!"

Which forces my question above:

ARE these being offered for rescue elsewhere, or are we just trying to buy time for another party with not quite the same track record as Jason and Nick with 503 and other projects?

If the likes of the San Luis & Rio Grande, the Age of Steam Museum, or the Grand Canyon Railway offered--somehow, for whatever hare-brained reason--to take this entire fleet and save it for their own adaptive reuse, that would certainly satisfy UP as long as they get the darned things out of their way pronto. But would the person making the original appeal be happy?

DanielHuppenthal

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:44 pm

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:39 pmPosts: 11

The start of the issue is the track the equipment was/is on has/had a long term lease.

Robby Peartree

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:47 pm

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:16 amPosts: 629

First it is not an iconic AMTK locomotive it is just a locomotive type that ANTK used and other regional railroads used. They had a regional area they could serve, but no national impact like an F40.

Second your post was who should save it. Translation, I won't do anything to save one but we should direct to drop everything and save one with no support. If I am struggling to save something the last thing I need is someone not helping out telling me what to do and only creating headaches for me.

Third the 503 is do something now or its gone just like the collection in Denver the result is not vastly different. There are previous events that led up to each situation both groups are trying to save what they can now in the current situation. Phasing one and criticizing another is hypocritical no matter what facts you choose to acknowledge. Yes it has been known that UP is getting out of the yard but there is also a series of steps that governments take to sell or dispose of property that Port Author should have followed. Jason and Nick took action and people responded. I congratulate them. The pieces of equipment in Denver deserve the same treatment no matter the personal biases of some individuals. Loosing history to arrogance and ignorance should be tolerated by no one.

Robby Peartree

Alexander D. Mitchell IV

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

First it is not an iconic AMTK locomotive it is just a locomotive type that ANTK used and other regional railroads used. They had a regional area they could serve, but no national impact like an F40.

I could say the same thing about the PRR GG1, if I were being disingenuous. Only three passenger operators bought any AEM7's, the other two as "add-ons" to Amtrak's construction order.

Quote:

Second your post was who should save it. Translation, I won't do anything to save one but we should direct to drop everything and save one with no support. If I am struggling to save something the last thing I need is someone not helping out telling me what to do and only creating headaches for me.

You actually have no idea what I've done behind the scenes towards AEM7 preservation--and, as a matter of fact, am still doing.........In my original post, I outlined a long, well-thought-out list of possibilities. Discussions ensued. As it turned out, what we eventually concluded was almost "to the letter" what happened, or is still in progress. And when two museums in question send out the fundraising letters for their restoration, I hope to still be in a position to lobby for a four-figure donation from one of the groups with which I work, as we've done with other fundraising appeals around the region.

Quote:

Third the 503 is do something now or its gone just like the collection in Denver the result is not vastly different.

I would argue they are.The Port Arthur debacle is the result of the owner cavalierly "tossing the loco in the trash can," and Jason, Nick, and others are pulling it back out.

The important difference is that Jason and Nick have openly announced a firm plan to:1) Officially and legally take possession of the artifact;2) MOVE IT to another location temporarily for further remedial and stabilization work;3) Transfer title to a new home that is interested in pursuing an operational restoration of the loco; and 4) A second option for preservation should that one fall through.

That's why I got my NRHS Chapter and our online seller to throw $125 at it--and we were in the midst of arguing amongst ourselves whether to up that considerably when the goal was reached. That's why over 1,100 other underwriters chipped in an average of a little over $50 each as well.

All I see with the Burnham Yard appeal--which involves equipment that a party has apparently already claimed title to and has done nothing further that we can tell--is "badger UP not to scrap it." And all I see that doing is kicking the proverbial can down the road, delaying what could be inevitable, and making railfans look like further thorns in UP's sides. It certainly appears the current owner has bitten off more than he can chew.

I'm sorry, but I need more of a plan than that.

So I ask:We get UP not to scrap them.THEN WHAT?? WHAT IS THE PLAN????

At this point, criticizing me for asking the question--which I know any other serious preservationists will have to ask--is simply an attempt at deflection.

Dave

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:48 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 amPosts: 5636Location: southeastern USA

Also I see no mention of what was done in the 5 months of lead time that didn't work to remediate the situation. Knowing what suggestions not to make would be useful information.

_________________Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."

Scranton Yard

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:00 am

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 amPosts: 453

Dave wrote:

Also I see no mention of what was done in the 5 months of lead time that didn't work to remediate the situation. Knowing what suggestions not to make would be useful information.

Dave - I do not know anything about this unfortunate situation, but the articles I linked to in my post indicate that Union Pacific told the OP that, in the OP's words, "if the cars aren't out, they're gonna scrap them," in November of 2015 when Union Pacific announced that Burnham would be closing. So it appears that the question would be, what has happened over the last 27 months?

colfaxstation

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:36 am

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:41 pmPosts: 222Location: Colfax,WI

Is any of the equipment able to move out by rail, or is it all trucking candidates? Pictures of current interior and exterior status would be appreciated. Otherwise, this is just a waste of everyone's time because the owner isn't serious about getting it out and saved.

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:55 am

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:06 pmPosts: 216Location: Bendena KS

Based upon my admittedly limited knowledge of the situation, I believe that the problem is that the UP will not let the owner nor anyone else show up with a truck and remove the equipment in question, nor will they allow the scrap contractor to remove equipment intact. The first hurdle to be cleared is to convince the UP to allow the equipment to be removed in a manner other than being cut into little pieces first. That is what Dan is hoping to hoping to accomplish right now, just get enough people to ask the UP to reconsider the scrapping and allow anyone to pull the cars out intact.

As to how things got to this point, I do not really know, other than it has been a long, drawn out court battle over what was a long term lease on the track upon which the equipment was stored. Attempts have been made to remove the equipment by truck, but access to the property was denied by the UP.

Jason Midyette

M Secco

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:22 am

Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 2:46 pmPosts: 202

RRPRESIVATION DAN ,

I sent you a PM . If time is critical ,please reply .

M. Secco

M Secco

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:00 pm

Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 2:46 pmPosts: 202

What's happening with this stuff now ?

Tavor

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:39 pm

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:32 pmPosts: 191

M Secco wrote:

What's happening with this stuff now ?

I wish I knew.

Jeeps

Post subject: Re: Please help try to save the equipment at Burnham Yard

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:00 pm

Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 2:51 pmPosts: 12

Jeeps wrote:

Lincoln Penn wrote:

Why would the boom have been raised above traveling position to begin with?[/quote

Per the UP Steam crew that volunteered their free time current UP rules on the Moffat tunnel district hight restrictions required lowering the boom. The wrecker has been moved out of Burnham yard north to the UP yard along Brighton Blvd Denver. Unofficially the wrecker should move to the museum in a few months.

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