Good God almighty! The flood gates have opened! I am beside myself finding out all these things happened. It's not only disgusting but shocking for some parts. Folks I never, ever thought would do such things are the ones who did them!

Harvey Weinstein-ugh. Fucking piece of fucking shit. Him I can easily believe but I'm still at a loss for how to do what's right here. I love a ton of Weinstein movies. I mean, there's a fuck ton! So, what's right here?? Do I throw them in the bin and boycott the company? I know they've fired him but I'm not for certain they didn't know some of this shit was happening. It's so fucked up. He's the WORST I've heard of so far.

Kevin Spacey-I'm gay so it's ok. Fucking DUH you're gay dude. Everyone knew that shit and if they didn't, they just weren't paying attention. I cannot believe however he tried to justify it in that manner. Plus now 8 House of Cards people are saying he had sexual misconduct with them. Whatever that means. My God! I loved Spacey!! You've got to be fucking kidding me!! Piece of fucking shit!

Dustin Hoffman-FUCK! This is the most shocking to me. I don't even know how to feel. He has been an icon in my life since I was a young man. So far two woman have come to light that he harassed. What that means? I don't know. Does it matter???

The list goes on and on and I'm sure it's going to be a lot more people before the year is over. I just cannot believe some of this shit. It makes me feel like we ought to burn Hollywood to the ground.

Corey Feldman coming on crazy, but right and about to expose a lot of fucking bad people. This shit fucks with me so bad.

I was in the film industry for 16 years, my dad for 40. I met some of these fucking people. Spacey being one. I'm sickened and disgusted and I pray that there's not this enormous list of Hollywood people that have done this shit. Next thing you know Tom Hardy and Christian Bale will be on the list, then I'm just going to smash my entire collection.

I feel so bad for the people who were hurt by these people. It's such a fucked up situation.

What are you thoughts??

Last edited by Jwar on Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

"I do not have the ability to think rationally 90% of the time and I also change my mind at the drop of a hat".

If you're surprised, just look at the entire anthropological record. Humans be humans, socially trained animals, no matter the industry. This men and women actually spending time together professionally on large corporate levels ridden with hierarchy isn't even 100 years old yet. You're not going to take away hundreds of thousands of years of predatory reproductive biology overnight. I'm more surprised that you're so shocked by this tbh.

UglyCasanova wrote:If you're surprised, just look at the entire anthropological record. Humans be humans, socially trained animals, no matter the industry. This men and women actually spending time together professionally on large corporate levels ridden with hierarchy isn't even 100 years old yet. You're not going to take away hundreds of thousands of years of predatory reproductive biology overnight. I'm more surprised that you're so shocked by this tbh.

I guess I'm more shocked by the who than by the what. You know? The biggest shock is Hoffman. I fucking loved him. I mean, I love so many of his films and I've listened to him speak. It just tears me apart that he could be a sexual predator. I feel horrible for the people he harassed or God knows what else he did.

"I do not have the ability to think rationally 90% of the time and I also change my mind at the drop of a hat".

Definitely an aside and not the main conversation you're having, I know, but taking serious Feldman's past and current accusations of routine pedophilia and sexual abuse in Hollywood makes a lot of his attitude and behavior more understandable. Can you imagine growing up in an environment where being harassed and assaulted/molested was more or less routine? Everyone you looked to for protection and support in that world would either be an abuser or an enabler. I would imagine if he even felt comfortable going to his parents for help, they probably were inclined to not believe or actively suppress him, in order to keep their revenue streams through him open. If all of this kind of behavior is the "open secret" it appears to be, if he went to an agent, manager, director, producer or older costar and they weren't an abuser themselves, they would probably not be incline to accuse or upset someone else in power who was (either above them or a peer), for fear of ruining their career. Then you have free flowing access to alcohol, drugs and a lot of damaging social behavior/dynamics from a young age and you create a huge list of new personal problems, trying to smother the feelings from the source trauma.

I mean, at some point you either take responsibility for the problems you have as an adult and get help or you let them consume you, but I can understand why he's such a troubled, extreme personality. He has at least survived and is not in a gutter, which is a lot better than many of his childhood friends/peers.

On the main subject of just how widespread all of this is in the entertainment industry, I'm disgusted but not shocked or surprised. Unfortunately it's widespread everywhere and there's tons of problems with people not being believed or abusers never really being brought to justice or just getting a slap on the wrist and being easily forgiven. It applies to all kinds of assault and abuse, beyond sexual, but it's definitely a big deal in that sense through many social circles and society in general at this point.

UglyCasanova wrote:If you're surprised, just look at the entire anthropological record. Humans be humans, socially trained animals, no matter the industry. This men and women actually spending time together professionally on large corporate levels ridden with hierarchy isn't even 100 years old yet. You're not going to take away hundreds of thousands of years of predatory reproductive biology overnight. I'm more surprised that you're so shocked by this tbh.

I'm not attacking you personally, because I don't think you're trying to accomplish anything harmful with your post, but excusing rape and sexually predatory behavior as a hangover of evolution is ridiculous. Human beings have been living in closely knit, coed co-habitation and consensual sexual relationship for hundreds of thousands of years. Most of our mating behaviors are based around attracting and competing for biologically and/or socially ideal mates. Rape doesn't fit into the mainstream of that model, it's a deviant behavior that doesn't necessarily benefit the gene pool. It's one person hurting other people for their immediate enjoyment, which isn't an advantageous behavior, from an evolutionary biology perspective.

When you make arguments like that, even if it's not intentionally malicious, it removes the agency and responsibility from the behaviors of adult men and there are people actively looking for excuses like that to undermine the seriousness of the issues involved. Also, biological evolution is an element of motivation in our behavior, not entirely in control of it. Our brains haven't changed significantly in size in hundreds of thousands of years and there have been a vast variety of cultures with radically different views on gender, sexual behavior and violence. We're as emotionally, intellectually and morally capable now as we were when we lived as nomadic hunter-gatherers. That doesn't mean that we're savage beasts now as much as ever, that means that people before written history were just as capable of respect, healthy relationships, compassion and consent then as we are now. We're not a monolithic human culture that has been marching steadily from savagery towards equality and tolerance. There have been cultures much more progressive from the stance of gender roles hundreds or thousands of years ago and there are cultures now that normalize violence and abuse. If people now are molesting and raping, it's a product of the culture we've created, not an inevitability of our biology.

friendship wrote:I hope this can of worms gets opened in the music industry too, harassment and sexual assault are rampant there too.

Oh man...can you imagine. I'm scared to know who is involved in the music industry. That's something that would be fucking huge no doubt.

Kinda happening already. Twiggy Ramirez of Manson/etc., Ethan Kath of Crystal Castles (seriously messed up situation if you read Alice's story), there was some european black or death metal band that has been accused of gang raping a woman in their tour bus.

Also, in my local scene there have been a lot of outings in Detroit and Lansing of abusive behavior, assault, rape, etc. I even kicked out a band member of Mudwest because I confronted him and he confirmed that he was seeing a 15 year old girl. (he was 25.) I have zero tolerance for that bullshit. And while I do think local scenes and communities need to figure out ways to rehabilitate abusive people (I believe there is a group in Detroit that actually offers to help abusers/rapists confront their terrible actions and become better people.) I am 100% behind getting these folks out of music and art spaces so everyone can have a good time and not worry about being assaulted while enjoying music or other performance art.

More on topic of Hollywood, I just read about the dude who played Hyde on That 70s Show is supposed to be on trial for rape... which just sucks because that is sort of a comfort, turn on and laugh kinda tv show for me. One that I bonded with college roommates over. I try not to let that stuff hold me back from enjoying media but it definitely doesn't help.

mr. sound boy king wrote:Organic apples are not normal, they are special, like analog, whereas normal apples, like digital, taste sterile and lack warmth.

UglyCasanova wrote:If you're surprised, just look at the entire anthropological record. Humans be humans, socially trained animals, no matter the industry. This men and women actually spending time together professionally on large corporate levels ridden with hierarchy isn't even 100 years old yet. You're not going to take away hundreds of thousands of years of predatory reproductive biology overnight. I'm more surprised that you're so shocked by this tbh.

I'm not attacking you personally, because I don't think you're trying to accomplish anything harmful with your post, but excusing rape and sexually predatory behavior as a hangover of evolution is ridiculous. Human beings have been living in closely knit, coed co-habitation and consensual sexual relationship for hundreds of thousands of years. Most of our mating behaviors are based around attracting and competing for biologically and/or socially ideal mates. Rape doesn't fit into the mainstream of that model, it's a deviant behavior that doesn't necessarily benefit the gene pool. It's one person hurting other people for their immediate enjoyment, which isn't an advantageous behavior, from an evolutionary biology perspective.

When you make arguments like that, even if it's not intentionally malicious, it removes the agency and responsibility from the behaviors of adult men and there are people actively looking for excuses like that to undermine the seriousness of the issues involved. Also, biological evolution is an element of motivation in our behavior, not entirely in control of it. Our brains haven't changed significantly in size in hundreds of thousands of years and there have been a vast variety of cultures with radically different views on gender, sexual behavior and violence. We're as emotionally, intellectually and morally capable now as we were when we lived as nomadic hunter-gatherers. That doesn't mean that we're savage beasts now as much as ever, that means that people before written history were just as capable of respect, healthy relationships, compassion and consent then as we are now. We're not a monolithic human culture that has been marching steadily from savagery towards equality and tolerance. There have been cultures much more progressive from the stance of gender roles hundreds or thousands of years ago and there are cultures now that normalize violence and abuse. If people now are molesting and raping, it's a product of the culture we've created, not an inevitability of our biology.

I'm just saying that pretending it's not there is naive. You're the one interpretating my statement the way you are. I was not aware that anyone got raped either.

Last edited by UglyCasanova on Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

There's also a big difference between making excuses for other people's behaviour and facing the facts, however bleak they may be. But we may fundamentally disagree as I see no basis for free will or any overwhelming evidence of the post-structuralist statement that culture trumps biology.

Last edited by UglyCasanova on Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

There was an ex-friend and bandmate who I cut out of my life 15 or so years ago, who ended up getting convicted of child molestation and nobody knew until he was turning himself in on a "no contest" plea. I found out with some digging afterwards that the charge he was convicted of is only possible if you have a previous similar offense and I remembered him saying something about being on house arrest when he was 18 or 19 for something, but that it was "too painful to talk about, maybe someday". I had ignored some complaints about him groping girls at shows, then when I couldn't ignore a lot of his terrible behavior, just focused more on the lying and stealing that caused us to kick him out of our band at the time. The week we were going to kick him out was when he went to jail. Since then he's continually thrown all ages punk shows and hung around with teenagers and he's 40 now. There were some overt pedophilia things that we frankly just didn't clock or couldn't process (played off as thinking he had a weird sense of humor) that made too much sense in hindsight.

For about 5 years after we cut him out of our lives and made it a point to let EVERYONE who knew him socially know what was up, about half my friends in the music scene stood up for him and kept hanging out and doing bands with him. Then he ran afoul of several more terrible incidents (not just with kids or even sexual things, he was an all around POS) and slowly most of those people came around (not all of them though). Now all his friends are about 10-20 years younger than him and I know for a fact he moved several times without registering as as ex offender while he was still on parole/probation, I guess the authorities just didn't care. No idea if he's been arrested again, but I would be shocked if he hadn't done anything since then that could get him arrested.

I'm shocked that everyone is shocked Kevin Spacey is gay. What's next on my news feed? "Humans need water to survive?" Gimme a fucking break.

"SWIPE LEFT ASSHOLE!" -retinal orbita"Patty Mullen takes me from a ball peen to a sledge" -The Great Velvet Hammer"I was playing guitar a minute ago and had to take a shit...kinda bummned out cuz I was trying to get this super awesome riff down, now I'm just holdin my penis down readin this crap" -comesect2.0Don't do me ugly...Oh Lord! The streets took you Blaze! Didn't I tell you!