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Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

Let's focus on this, because I disagree a little bit. I think Jordan has been romanticized to a certain extent. The Legend of Jordan has continued to grow over the years, to the point where an entire week was spent talking about his 50th birthday and all of his questionable character flaws are now twisted into the overall narrative of what made him so great. I'm not saying there's no reason for this, because there is, but I don't really think Jordan's accomplishments have been forgotten. I also don't think people are ready to annoint the "next Jordan" so much as he is the golden standard for what basketball players strive to be. He's the best, so great players will naturally be compared to the best. It's inevitable.

Whereas you look at LeBron, and we have a tendency to focus on the negative with him a little more because he's not entirely likeable and because he has made some puzzling PR moves. But as a basketball player, what he's done on the court the past few seasons has been incredible. He can legitimatelly shut down four positions on the court defensively (for as great as MJ was, he didn't have physical gifts that LeBron has), and guard the fifth position respectably. Does he have the will to be great and make others great and just win, win, win like Jordan had? It doesn't look like it. But even as great as Kobe was, I never felt he could reach Jordan's level. At least with LeBron, I think it's possible. We haven't seen anyone dominate the NBA like LeBron is this season (and last season, really) since Shaq's FU seasons when he actually gave a **** about what kind of shape he was in.

Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

Unpopular opinion alert: LeBron will retire as the greatest basketball player who ever lived. I'm including you, Miguel Jordan.

Don't know if that's true or not, but I do know watching Lebron live at the BLF last year in the playoffs was truly impressive. Saw Jordan live in the playoffs a long time ago, so it's hard to remember, but my impression is more of being annoyed by him because he got crap calls than awed by him, and that Toni Kukoc played a better game. With Lebron, he just seemed like the best player on the court.

Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

cdash brought up a good point. Jordan might be the best player ever, Lebron might be close, but Shaq in his prime is the most dominating player I've ever seen. Not nearly the most talented, but when he was fit no one could even come close to his shear size and strength.

Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

Let's focus on this, because I disagree a little bit. I think Jordan has been romanticized to a certain extent. The Legend of Jordan has continued to grow over the years, to the point where an entire week was spent talking about his 50th birthday and all of his questionable character flaws are now twisted into the overall narrative of what made him so great. I'm not saying there's no reason for this, because there is, but I don't really think Jordan's accomplishments have been forgotten. I also don't think people are ready to annoint the "next Jordan" so much as he is the golden standard for what basketball players strive to be. He's the best, so great players will naturally be compared to the best. It's inevitable.

Whereas you look at LeBron, and we have a tendency to focus on the negative with him a little more because he's not entirely likeable and because he has made some puzzling PR moves. But as a basketball player, what he's done on the court the past few seasons has been incredible. He can legitimatelly shut down four positions on the court defensively (for as great as MJ was, he didn't have physical gifts that LeBron has), and guard the fifth position respectably. Does he have the will to be great and make others great and just win, win, win like Jordan had? It doesn't look like it. But even as great as Kobe was, I never felt he could reach Jordan's level. At least with LeBron, I think it's possible. We haven't seen anyone dominate the NBA like LeBron is this season (and last season, really) since Shaq's FU seasons when he actually gave a **** about what kind of shape he was in.

I agree with that. Depends more where your starting point is in the discussion. I think this probably deals more with people on the ends of the spetrum.

I like LeBron, the player. What he does is jaw dropping. I think I've seen two triple doubles by him, and I didn't even think he played that well the first time. Once you're up as high as him and MJ, the world probably looks like the point of a pen.

Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

cdash brought up a good point. Jordan might be the best player ever, Lebron might be close, but Shaq in his prime is the most dominating player I've ever seen. Not nearly the most talented, but when he was fit no one could even come close to his shear size and strength.

They changed the rules of the game for Shaq. Since this is a Simmons article I will go back to something he says: Chris Webber was always one of the woulda/coulda/shoulda guys in NBA history. I think it was Shaq. If he had taken care of his body longer he could have absolutely dominated the NBA for much longer than he did. I remember watching that 1999-2000 Lakers team and thinking there was no way anyone was beating them if they played well. Shaq dominated, and when he didn't, he would swing it out to Kobe who would do the rest. I'm amazed we took them to 6 games in the Finals, honestly.

Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

They changed the rules of the game for Shaq. Since this is a Simmons article I will go back to something he says: Chris Webber was always one of the woulda/coulda/shoulda guys in NBA history. I think it was Shaq. If he had taken care of his body longer he could have absolutely dominated the NBA for much longer than he did. I remember watching that 1999-2000 Lakers team and thinking there was no way anyone was beating them if they played well. Shaq dominated, and when he didn't, he would swing it out to Kobe who would do the rest. I'm amazed we took them to 6 games in the Finals, honestly.

And we were this close >< to tying the series up in game 4. It took a Jordan-esque (as long as we're comparing people to Jordan) performance from a young Mamba to seal that game in OT while Shaq was fouled out on the bench.

Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

Jordan wasn't always talked about with extreme reverence. Playoff exits at the hands of the Pistons & Celtics brought questions. Like Lebron he didn't win his first championship until age 28 either.

Given the lack of talent on those Cavs teams Lebron has a pretty good resume compared to Jordan at this stage of his career. Ultimately I don't think he will get that level of winning but it is not impossible. Especially with the star "buddy system" that is developing in todays game.

Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

Sidenote Lebron discussion: Where does he go to win more rings after he leaves Miami? Whether it's soon or whether it's later, does anyone really think Lebron is gonna retire with the Heat? He has min. seven years left, probably more. Hate to say it as a Pacer fan, but it's not that hard to imagine Lebron ending up with 5-7 rings total. Especially if he plays till he's 38, 39, which seems possible since he's a freak of nature and all.

Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

Jordon had a great game!
Might be an even closer call between Him and Oscar who outscored, out rebounded, and out assited him, more often than not.

And I'm not so sure either would be my first pick in a league.

Big guys dominate a game where iron hangs high.

Bill Russel would be an excellent first pick. As would Wilt of course... Shaq and Jabar may also be a better first pick.

After that I'm thinkin Jordon or Olajuan.

Because there is a pretty big drop off between the centers that are left and I'd roll with Wilt and Kobe or Russel and Bird over Jordon and what ever center you may get at number 12. Jordon and Walton?

Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

I don't think we are even close to seeing what Lance can do. There are times when he just looks like the best player on the floor. These are still few and far between. Don't remember the exact game, but he had several great passes and scores over about 6 minute time frame and then was T'ed up for a flagrant 1. That seemed to disrupt the flow he was in. These moments are now starting to happen more often. I think Lance will be an All-Star someday but that's a couple years away. Lance has great basketball smarts.

Last edited by aceace; 03-02-2013 at 02:51 PM.
Reason: add

"He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)