So...just like alcohol. Once the market is saturated with distributors and producers, the price will come down. At that point only the licensing, taxation, and regulatory aspects will remain expensive.

Try to get into the liquor store or bar business. I don't know about Colorado, but around here liquor licenses cost a mint. It seems that if you want to be in the business of selling mood altering products legally, it is going to cost to to get in.

Well, we said we could deal with regulation if they'd just call off the dogs, so don't start crying about it now. This is still a fair trade-off. If they keep biatching, remind them how much it costs to be a felon for selling pot.

ongbok:Try to get into the liquor store or bar business. I don't know about Colorado, but around here liquor licenses cost a mint. It seems that if you want to be in the business of selling mood altering products legally, it is going to cost to to get in.

Broktun:ongbok: Try to get into the liquor store or bar business. I don't know about Colorado, but around here liquor licenses cost a mint. It seems that if you want to be in the business of selling mood altering products legally, it is going to cost to to get in.

That doesn't come close to what it cost to open a "micro-brewery".

at least you don't don't make a video recording from grain seed to bottle

Does anyone know if it is legal to PRODUCE weed for use at private clubs in CO? The industry in Amsterdam seems to work because the law kind of pretends that the stuff just magically gets beamed in behind the counter of coffeeshops, with the devils weed still being illegal to grow or transport. I'm curious as to whether CO has avoided this nonsense.

DROxINxTHExWIND:Well, we said we could deal with regulation if they'd just call off the dogs, so don't start crying about it now. This is still a fair trade-off. If they keep biatching, remind them how much it costs to be a felon for selling pot.

Yeah, let's not start to sound like whiners now that we're on the right road. Cough up the additional bucks and move on.

For anyone who feels the compulsion to crusade there are plenty of states left where you can happily risk arrest.

ongbok:Try to get into the liquor store or bar business. I don't know about Colorado, but around here liquor licenses cost a mint. It seems that if you want to be in the business of selling mood altering products legally, it is going to cost to to get in.

Funny, you don't need a license to grow potatoes. Look at how many pounds the average American eats. But , potatoes are cheap, compared to pot. Oh, I see now. It's all about the money, not the product. How did I not see that?

I thought "very expensive" would describe the prices. Instead they have licensing requirements that would make the salon industry blush.

I'd prefer my pot to be artisanally produced by small growers, but with high licensing requirements they force the small grower underground and keep the market to only the largest capitalist enterprises.

Pick:Funny, you don't need a license to grow potatoes. Look at how many pounds the average American eats. But , potatoes are cheap, compared to pot. Oh, I see now. It's all about the money, not the product. How did I not see that?

So, you pay tens of thousands of dollars for licensing, fees, video surveillance and whatnot. You establish your business. Then the feds come confiscate it all, because something, something, supremacy clause...

AbsentFriends:So, you pay tens of thousands of dollars for licensing, fees, video surveillance and whatnot. You establish your business. Then the feds come confiscate it all, because something, something, supremacy clause...

There are risks associated with every business. Remember the "we wouldn't have a deficit if they just taxed weed!" argument? Well, these are the taxes. Pay up and toke up.

AbsentFriends:So, you pay tens of thousands of dollars for licensing, fees, video surveillance and whatnot. You establish your business. Then the feds come confiscate it all, because something, something, supremacy clause...

And with federal mandatory minimums, you could be sent to prison for decades... for growing plants. That is patently absurd.

AngryDragon:So...just like alcohol. Once the market is saturated with distributors and producers, the price will come down. At that point only the licensing, taxation, and regulatory aspects will remain expensive.

I think you just shot your argument in the foot with that last sentence. Until it can be imported and exported from state to state, and until it becomes legal under federal law it will remain expensive. The enforcement aspect is not to protect growers/sellers from say, the IRS or DEA, it's to find any and every reason to shut them down. There is not going to be a huge market saturation, not with those risks. Unlike alcohol, it can't be consumed in a bar or restaurant, nor is it addictive. If you think pot is going to be as remotely popular as alcohol, you're dead wrong.

Broktun:ongbok: Try to get into the liquor store or bar business. I don't know about Colorado, but around here liquor licenses cost a mint. It seems that if you want to be in the business of selling mood altering products legally, it is going to cost to to get in.

That doesn't come close to what it cost to open a "micro-brewery".

It's far cheaper than a distillery. As others have said, there's a cost to do legal business.

detritus:AngryDragon: So...just like alcohol. Once the market is saturated with distributors and producers, the price will come down. At that point only the licensing, taxation, and regulatory aspects will remain expensive.

I think you just shot your argument in the foot with that last sentence. Until it can be imported and exported from state to state, and until it becomes legal under federal law it will remain expensive. The enforcement aspect is not to protect growers/sellers from say, the IRS or DEA, it's to find any and every reason to shut them down. There is not going to be a huge market saturation, not with those risks. Unlike alcohol, it can't be consumed in a bar or restaurant, nor is it addictive. If you think pot is going to be as remotely popular as alcohol, you're dead wrong.

No, that's not what I said. I was talking about market saturation not common availability. You're right, pot will not be as popular as alcohol. It will be a smaller market, ergo the amount of availability needed to hit full market coverage will be much smaller. You will have local markets where the barrier to entry for a business becomes a lack of profit due to supply pressures. The government will still get their licensing fees and taxes and the producers will have to deal with market forces as availability increases. The same thing happens with alcohol only on a much larger scale.

Availability will increase geographically over time as laws change, but for now it is a niche market.

AngryDragon:DROxINxTHExWIND: Well, we said we could deal with regulation if they'd just call off the dogs, so don't start crying about it now. This is still a fair trade-off. If they keep biatching, remind them how much it costs to be a felon for selling pot.

Yeah, let's not start to sound like whiners now that we're on the right road. Cough up the additional bucks and move on.

For anyone who feels the compulsion to crusade there are plenty of states left where you can happily risk arrest.

Funny, I seem to recall the pro pot side(I'm on it) touting the tax revenue they could generate for the state. So farkin do it already!

sammyk:AngryDragon: DROxINxTHExWIND: Well, we said we could deal with regulation if they'd just call off the dogs, so don't start crying about it now. This is still a fair trade-off. If they keep biatching, remind them how much it costs to be a felon for selling pot.

Yeah, let's not start to sound like whiners now that we're on the right road. Cough up the additional bucks and move on.

For anyone who feels the compulsion to crusade there are plenty of states left where you can happily risk arrest.

Funny, I seem to recall the pro pot side(I'm on it) touting the tax revenue they could generate for the state. So farkin do it already!

One of the biggest revenue generators for the mafia is tax evasion on cigarettes because NY's cigarette taxes are so high. Think about that for a second....

GoodOmens:sammyk: AngryDragon: DROxINxTHExWIND: Well, we said we could deal with regulation if they'd just call off the dogs, so don't start crying about it now. This is still a fair trade-off. If they keep biatching, remind them how much it costs to be a felon for selling pot.

Yeah, let's not start to sound like whiners now that we're on the right road. Cough up the additional bucks and move on.

For anyone who feels the compulsion to crusade there are plenty of states left where you can happily risk arrest.

Funny, I seem to recall the pro pot side(I'm on it) touting the tax revenue they could generate for the state. So farkin do it already!

One of the biggest revenue generators for the mafia is tax evasion on cigarettes because NY's cigarette taxes are so high. Think about that for a second....

So, the shiat hasn't been legal for 30 seconds and we're already talking about the taxes are too high and bootlegging?

Fark it. I'm with the anti-weed folks. Arrest us all and farking be done with it. These potheads won't be satisfied until they can legally smoke in a hospital intensive care unit.

/and this from a guy named DRO//Its way to early to start this biatching

thisisyourbrainonFark:michael.meisel: I stopped reading afterThose who want to sell both medical and recreational pot would have to pay double.

As a Colorado resident, I know that ONLY businesses that are already selling medical marijuana are even eligible to apply for a recreational license. This journalist clearly didn't do their homework

Pretty sure that's not the case. Hence all the rules, fees and red tape for people -- not just medical providers -- who want in.

Yup that's one of the rules. My state doesn't want someone to come in without any recent experience in a similar regulated marketplace. Once the former medical providers prove that this system can work for a recreational framework, then they'll open it to other applicants.

sammyk:AngryDragon: DROxINxTHExWIND: Well, we said we could deal with regulation if they'd just call off the dogs, so don't start crying about it now. This is still a fair trade-off. If they keep biatching, remind them how much it costs to be a felon for selling pot.

Yeah, let's not start to sound like whiners now that we're on the right road. Cough up the additional bucks and move on.

For anyone who feels the compulsion to crusade there are plenty of states left where you can happily risk arrest.

Funny, I seem to recall the pro pot side(I'm on it) touting the tax revenue they could generate for the state. So farkin do it already!

Thas was back before it was legal that they suggested weed be regulated and taxed like alcohol. Now that it is, they've decided they don't really like it. Of course, they could still get it through illegal channels or grow it themselves, just like they could before, and as they pledged to do if it wasn't legalized, but that does seem like a lot of work. So basically they're just living up to every stereotype. The green is always grassier... or something like that.

fireclown:Does anyone know if it is legal to PRODUCE weed for use at private clubs in CO? The industry in Amsterdam seems to work because the law kind of pretends that the stuff just magically gets beamed in behind the counter of coffeeshops, with the devils weed still being illegal to grow or transport. I'm curious as to whether CO has avoided this nonsense.

From what I know all adults can grow 6 plants. As a med card user you can get 6-24. I can do 18. As a med card holder if you don't want to grow you can assign the plants to a caregiver and those are the folks that supply the med industry. To work in the med industry you need a special license that lets you handle and possess a fark ton of weed. They haven't really figured out shiat for the commercial rec use because its a bunch of old asshole poloticians who don't know weed from their dicks and are taking tons of money from the alcohol and prescription drug dealers to delay the process.

Plans call for an ambitious seed-to-sale tracking system in which Colorado will require video surveillance of all plants as they grow and are prepared, packaged and sold to customers.

Just record keeping and cataloging all that video is going to be a massive job, and I bet it sits unviewed until the end of time. Who's going to sit thru weeks/months of video to make sure there's no diverting going on? I can already think of several ways to set things up so that it meets the requirements of the regulators but is easily compromised. This will be useless, but I suppose it will give some bureaucrats the illusion that they have things under control.

GoodOmens:sammyk: AngryDragon: DROxINxTHExWIND: Well, we said we could deal with regulation if they'd just call off the dogs, so don't start crying about it now. This is still a fair trade-off. If they keep biatching, remind them how much it costs to be a felon for selling pot.

Yeah, let's not start to sound like whiners now that we're on the right road. Cough up the additional bucks and move on.

For anyone who feels the compulsion to crusade there are plenty of states left where you can happily risk arrest.

Funny, I seem to recall the pro pot side(I'm on it) touting the tax revenue they could generate for the state. So farkin do it already!

One of the biggest revenue generators for the mafia is tax evasion on cigarettes because NY's cigarette taxes are so high. Think about that for a second....

When the 21st amendment was enacted there were plenty of moonshiners that tried to stay in business illegally to avoid paying the taxes. The IRS won. Now Moonshiners is a shiatty reality tv show.

jjorsett:Plans call for an ambitious seed-to-sale tracking system in which Colorado will require video surveillance of all plants as they grow and are prepared, packaged and sold to customers.

Just record keeping and cataloging all that video is going to be a massive job, and I bet it sits unviewed until the end of time. Who's going to sit thru weeks/months of video to make sure there's no diverting going on? I can already think of several ways to set things up so that it meets the requirements of the regulators but is easily compromised. This will be useless, but I suppose it will give some bureaucrats the illusion that they have things under control.

the MMED doesn't employ enough people to even watch the footage. I think they only store it for 14 days before it gets destroyed.

jjorsett:Just record keeping and cataloging all that video is going to be a massive job, and I bet it sits unviewed until the end of time. Who's going to sit thru weeks/months of video to make sure there's no diverting going on? I can already think of several ways to set things up so that it meets the requirements of the regulators but is easily compromised. This will be useless, but I suppose it will give some bureaucrats the illusion that they have things under controlopportunity to line their pockets with kickbacks from cherry contracts for surveillance services they will give to their political allies.

Yes please:Thas was back before it was legal that they suggested weed be regulated and taxed like alcohol. Now that it is, they've decided they don't really like it. Of course, they could still get it through illegal channels or grow it themselves, just like they could before, and as they pledged to do if it wasn't legalized, but that does seem like a lot of work. So basically they're just living up to every stereotype. The green is always grassier... or something like that.

I'm not seeing users complaining. I'm seeing business owners complaining. Business owners complaining about the cost of regulation is a story as old as time.

I, for one, would be willing to pay twice the current street value of weed if it meant being able to buy it in a shop without fear of arrest.

thurstonxhowell:I, for one, would be willing to pay twice the current street value of weed if it meant being able to buy it in a shop without fear of arrest.

One of the monsters started buying and drinking alcohol because he can't afford what he prefers./I'm all for legalization, taxing, whatever, because if it were legal where we are, I'd farking buy it FOR him (and me) because I've always preferred it to alcohol's effects.//But it has to be legal. I want all of us smokers and smoker-wanna-bes to stay out of prison.

mama2tnt:thurstonxhowell: I, for one, would be willing to pay twice the current street value of weed if it meant being able to buy it in a shop without fear of arrest.

One of the monsters started buying and drinking alcohol because he can't afford what he prefers./I'm all for legalization, taxing, whatever, because if it were legal where we are, I'd farking buy it FOR him (and me) because I've always preferred it to alcohol's effects.//But it has to be legal. I want all of us smokers and smoker-wanna-bes to stay out of prison.

The prison part isn't what I worry about, I want it to be legalized so that on the job drug tests and clearances no longer depend on if you had smoked it or not.

Girion47:mama2tnt: thurstonxhowell: I, for one, would be willing to pay twice the current street value of weed if it meant being able to buy it in a shop without fear of arrest.

One of the monsters started buying and drinking alcohol because he can't afford what he prefers./I'm all for legalization, taxing, whatever, because if it were legal where we are, I'd farking buy it FOR him (and me) because I've always preferred it to alcohol's effects.//But it has to be legal. I want all of us smokers and smoker-wanna-bes to stay out of prison.

The prison part isn't what I worry about, I want it to be legalized so that on the job drug tests and clearances no longer depend on if you had smoked it or not.

Well, if you get arrested you won't have to worry about those job drug tests and security clearances, will you?

thurstonxhowell:Yes please: Thas was back before it was legal that they suggested weed be regulated and taxed like alcohol. Now that it is, they've decided they don't really like it. Of course, they could still get it through illegal channels or grow it themselves, just like they could before, and as they pledged to do if it wasn't legalized, but that does seem like a lot of work. So basically they're just living up to every stereotype. The green is always grassier... or something like that.

I'm not seeing users complaining. I'm seeing business owners complaining. Business owners complaining about the cost of regulation is a story as old as time.

I, for one, would be willing to pay twice the current street value of weed if it meant being able to buy it in a shop without fear of arrest.

Business owners will invariably pass that cost on to consumers. And while you may be willing to pay more, others will not. And I'm sure even you have your limit. You've said you'd pay twice as much... what about three times? Ten times?

AngryDragon:Girion47: mama2tnt: thurstonxhowell: I, for one, would be willing to pay twice the current street value of weed if it meant being able to buy it in a shop without fear of arrest.

One of the monsters started buying and drinking alcohol because he can't afford what he prefers./I'm all for legalization, taxing, whatever, because if it were legal where we are, I'd farking buy it FOR him (and me) because I've always preferred it to alcohol's effects.//But it has to be legal. I want all of us smokers and smoker-wanna-bes to stay out of prison.

The prison part isn't what I worry about, I want it to be legalized so that on the job drug tests and clearances no longer depend on if you had smoked it or not.

Well, if you get arrested you won't have to worry about those job drug tests and security clearances, will you?

One step at a time.

Getting arrested isn't a worry of mine. If I were to partake I know plenty of safe sources to go to and wouldn't be reckless about having it on my person at all times.

What keeps me from doing it is the job situation. For me mortgage>being high. So essentially I can't smoke until the Feds quit asking about it during security clearances.

Yes please:Business owners will invariably pass that cost on to consumers. And while you may be willing to pay more, others will not. And I'm sure even you have your limit. You've said you'd pay twice as much... what about three times? Ten times?

You're right, I have my limit. I don't know what you're trying to prove now, though. I thought you were slinging insults based on potheads whining about it being "regulated and taxed like alcohol". If they're increasing the price 10x just through taxes and regulation, then that is nothing like alcohol.

At that price, and in the absence of laws or employer drug tests, I'd grow.

elguerodiablo:fireclown: Does anyone know if it is legal to PRODUCE weed for use at private clubs in CO? The industry in Amsterdam seems to work because the law kind of pretends that the stuff just magically gets beamed in behind the counter of coffeeshops, with the devils weed still being illegal to grow or transport. I'm curious as to whether CO has avoided this nonsense.

From what I know all adults can grow 6 plants. As a med card user you can get 6-24. I can do 18. As a med card holder if you don't want to grow you can assign the plants to a caregiver and those are the folks that supply the med industry. To work in the med industry you need a special license that lets you handle and possess a fark ton of weed. They haven't really figured out shiat for the commercial rec use because its a bunch of old asshole poloticians who don't know weed from their dicks and are taking tons of money from the alcohol and prescription drug dealers to delay the process.

6 plants? That might not sound like much, but let me tell you... With good seeds I could more than keep myself supplied with 6 plants in my garden. I'd be pretty stoked if my state allowed me to even grow 6 plants.

I am also a Colorado resident. Medical shops aren't the only ones who can operate a recreational shop, but with the laws saying they can take up to a year to approve a standalone shop, where as the Medical clinics can start selling recreational pot quicker because they have everything in place regulation wise. The only thing a medical clinic would have to do is have the medical and recreational seperated, from plants to partitioning of the shops (seperate doors, budtenders).

Yes please:thurstonxhowell: Yes please: Thas was back before it was legal that they suggested weed be regulated and taxed like alcohol. Now that it is, they've decided they don't really like it. Of course, they could still get it through illegal channels or grow it themselves, just like they could before, and as they pledged to do if it wasn't legalized, but that does seem like a lot of work. So basically they're just living up to every stereotype. The green is always grassier... or something like that.

I'm not seeing users complaining. I'm seeing business owners complaining. Business owners complaining about the cost of regulation is a story as old as time.

I, for one, would be willing to pay twice the current street value of weed if it meant being able to buy it in a shop without fear of arrest.

Business owners will invariably pass that cost on to consumers. And while you may be willing to pay more, others will not. And I'm sure even you have your limit. You've said you'd pay twice as much... what about three times? Ten times?

And then someone will come around and supply the good at a lower price than the competition, and take market share, and eventually there will be competition based on quality as well as price.

If I go to the liquor store, I can choose the $100 bottle of Scotch. I can also reach down to the bottom shelf and grab the dusty $8.99 handle of vodka. In the end, they're both about 40% alcohol by volume, but there are substantial differences as well.