Windows 7 to be shipped in Europe without Internet Explorer

Microsoft has responded to the EU's antitrust investigation into its bundling …

Microsoft has announced that it will ship a special version of Vista's successor in Europe, titled Windows 7 E, without Internet Explorer 8. The browser-less version, a reaction to an antitrust investigation by the EU into whether Microsoft is abusing its dominant position with Windows and Internet Explorer, will be distributed in all member nations of the European Economic Area as well as Croatia and Switzerland.

Windows 7 E is reminiscent of media-player-free Windows XP N and Windows Vista N, which Microsoft offered in Europe also in response to an EU antitrust investigation. Unlike the N versions, which proved to be very unsuccessful—as Europeans simply purchased the full retail versions and OEMs refused to include them on their systems—Microsoft is not planning to offer a version of Windows 7 in Europe that includes IE8. This means that none of the versions of Windows 7 sold in Europe will include a Microsoft's browser.

As first reported by CNET and confirmed by Microsoft, OEMs will have the option to add the browser back in, ship another browser, or ship multiple browsers. "The E versions of Windows 7 will include all the features and functionality of Windows 7 in the rest of the world, other than browsing with Internet Explorer," Microsoft notes. "Computer manufacturers will be able to add any browser they want to their Windows 7 machines, including Internet Explorer, so European consumers who purchase new PCs will be able to access the Internet without any problem. Consumers will also be able to add any Web browser to their PCs, to supplement or replace the browsers preinstalled by their computer manufacturer."

Microsoft notes that the decision affects both OEM and Retail versions of Windows 7 products. While OEMs will have access to a free "IE8 pack" that allows them to add the browser back in, consumers who purchase retail copies will not have a browser that they can use to download a browser. Therefore, Microsoft will offer IE8 via CD, FTP, and retail channels. It looks like Mozilla, Opera, Google, and Apple will have to do the same if they want European Windows 7 adopters to have access to their browsers.

Microsoft does not currently have plans to remove Internet Explorer from any versions of Windows XP or Windows Vista, nor from the Windows XP mode add-on for Windows 7 Professional and Windows 7 Ultimate.

Recently, the EU has been asking companies what they saw as the best way to remedy the browser-bundling situation, and was even considering a way to get Microsoft to bundle third-party browsers with the operating system, forcing users to choose which browsers to download and install as well as which to set as the default. Microsoft wasn't so keen on the idea of distributing third-party browsers, so it has apparently taken the matter into its own hands and decided to remove IE8 altogether, knowing that the EU already approved of the N editions.

This isn't what the software giant originally wanted to do, as it had previously argued in its legal filings with the EU that the browser was an integral part of the operating system. With the release of the Windows 7 Release Candidate, Microsoft has made it possible to remove IE8 (the beta did not allow this), along with many other Windows components. [W]e’re committed to launching Windows 7 on time in Europe, so we need to address the legal realities in Europe, including the risk of large fines," says Microsoft. "We believe that this new approach, while not our first choice, is the best path forward given the ongoing legal case in Europe."

The European Commission is of two minds on Microsoft's move, pleased by the possibility of OEMs being able to offer multiple browsers, but disappointed that Microsoft itself is not providing consumers with the choice. "As for retail sales, which amount to less than 5 percent of total sales, the Commission had suggested to Microsoft that consumers be provided with a choice of Web browsers," the EC said in a statement. "Instead Microsoft has apparently decided to supply retail consumers with a version of Windows without a Web browser at all. Rather than more choice, Microsoft seems to have chosen to provide less."

The timing of this decision is quite ironic: the browser space has never been as competitive as it is now. Furthermore, rivals continue to chip away at Internet Explorer's market share month after month. Still, third-party browser makers like Opera, Mozilla, and Google have been pushing the EU for tough sanctions against Microsoft. Unless the EU has objections to Microsoft's decision, it looks like new Windows 7 PCs sold in the EU will be IE-free.

Microsoft notes that the decision affects both OEM and Retail versions of Windows 7 products. While OEMs will have access to a free "IE8 pack" that allows them to add the browser back in, consumers who purchase retail copies will not have a browser that they can use to download a browser.

Nice. So the EU got what they wanted. Sounds like a royal pain in the ass to me. Have fun jumping through additional hoops to get your desired browser installed!

I can completely understand the position. MS doesn't want to load other browsers for many reasons including people calling MS for support, or the browser companies complaining that MS hasn't updated their browser, etc..

The EU on this is still very strange, as the first thing I do when I setup a new computer is install a different browser, and I use IE to do it.

Ok, I am still not understanding how this is all considered to be a trust by Microsoft. So they bundle their web browser and media player. It's not like you can't install other web browsers and media players. I could understand all the brouha if the OS restricted you from installing other applications, but it doesn't so please help me understand where the antitrust comes into play.

Originally posted by dragosani:Has Microsoft learned not to get into a battle with the EU?

Quite the opposite I'd say. This looks like a declaration of war to me.

By making this (extreme) move unilaterally, MS tries to defuse the antitrust suit, but at the same time still place itself ahead of competitors. Note the reference to CD distribution of IE8 - something none of the other smaller players will be able to do - or FTP, which is impossible for any normal user with the FTP client included in Windows.

In other words, Microsoft manages to put itself in a position where it can say it's not abusing it's position, but it still vastly better positioned than any of the competitors.

Had they removed it only from OEM versions it would have been because they gave up the fight - removing it from retail versions is definitely a move meant to escalate the war. Personally I think it'll bite them in the a**, but - let's see where this goes from here.

What next? Windows C with no cmd.exe, Windows P with no notepad.exe, Windows F with no ftp.exe and so on, along with all combinations like Windows PFN for no notepad.exe, no ftp.exe and no wmplayer.exe and so on? That's just plain retarded, geez these people need lives.

Originally posted by dragosani:Has Microsoft learned not to get into a battle with the EU?

Quite the opposite I'd say. This looks like a declaration of war to me.

By making this (extreme) move unilaterally, MS tries to defuse the antitrust suit, but at the same time still place itself ahead of competitors. Note the reference to CD distribution of IE8 - something none of the other smaller players will be able to do - or FTP, which is impossible for any normal user with the FTP client included in Windows.

In other words, Microsoft manages to put itself in a position where it can say it's not abusing it's position, but it still vastly better positioned than any of the competitors.

Had they removed it only from OEM versions it would have been because they gave up the fight - removing it from retail versions is definitely a move meant to escalate the war. Personally I think it'll bite them in the a**, but - let's see where this goes from here.

I agree although I think this is a much smarter move than you are giving them credit for. If they remove their own web browser and not serve up any others, they can distance themselves from the antitrust crap and say "hey look, we're not violating any antitrust laws." Then just include a 'complimentary' CD of IE8 with the OS CD. It will be up to the user to install a web browser, but in order to download one you either have to use FTP or pop in the CD and instll IE8. Either way, the descision is left totally to the consumer and taken out of the hands of Microsoft, thus eliminating any reasons for an antitrust suit.

Of course the more tech savvy people will most likely already have a web browser on a USB thumb or external drive.

Although this is the EU we're talking bout so I'm sure they'd come up with some off the wall tangent to go off on and still persue the matter.

Keep in mind that OEMs will probably add browsers back in, so it's likely that only the DIY crowd will have a problem with this. Even then, most people upgrading their OS or installing a fresh one probably have the tech savvy to grab a browser via another computer. This just seems like a big hassle for everyone involved.

This is not nearly so important now that the web is becoming increasingly standards based.

But when this fight started, MS was trying to push core technologies on the web toward closed technologies that would push users toward using MS servers. The plan was to use the desktop monopoly to achieve a browser monopoly, and then use the browser monopoly to pry open the server market.

It doesn't matter now because the people pushing back have done a good job. I can look at web sites on my linux box, other people can use their macs. And we get the full experience.

This stuff probably wouldn't be true now if MS hadn't been challenged by governments.

Ever since Windows 95, I would use the built in browser for the sole purpose of downloading a DIFFERENT browser upon a fresh install. I never wasted my time putting a browser install on a disc or some backup mechanism since by the time I went to actually use it - it would have been woefully outdated.

My point being, without an initial browser to get an alternative, I am left to rely on having previously downloaded/purchased(?) a browser for install or I'm stuck with this box that sits there and whirrs. Yes, most of us here at Ars are more than capable of using another of our computers or internet-enabled devices to get our browser of choice onto that box, but I seriously doubt that about the general public and it would still be a pain in *MY* ass if after installing the OS I have to go download a browser and transfer it to a thumb drive/cd. It's like not having network card drivers on a fresh install, which I'm sure many of you can relate to. Not the end of the world, but still a pain in the ass, especially if you don't have a driver CD.

Quote from the article:

quote:

Our decision to only offer IE separately from Windows 7 in Europe cannot, of course, preclude the possibility of alternative approaches emerging through Commission processes. Other alternatives have been raised in the Commission proceedings, including possible inclusion in Windows 7 of alternative browsers or a “ballot screen” that would prompt users to choose from a specific set of Web browsers.

The vast majority of users will be unaffected since the OEMs will certainly include a browser of some sort, otherwise their buyers are going to be pissed... Still, though, I don't think many people can view the "no browser" option as being viable given the 'dead-in-the-water' nature of needing something else to make the computer "go" so I seriously doubt that will be the final decision.

Anyway, I can see that MS really didn't have a choice, here. The EU wanted them to add a splash screen to Windows 7. There is NO TIME for MS to do this. It is out on October 22nd. The Release Candidate is already being tested. Adding a splash screen with browser choice during install would require another round of testing. Not to mention that Firfox, Opera and Google would all have to get their stuff in order, too, in order to be included on the DVD. That would take time, too.

MS said screw all of this, let them have what they want. Good for them.

Microsoft notes that the decision affects both OEM and Retail versions of Windows 7 products. While OEMs will have access to a free "IE8 pack" that allows them to add the browser back in, consumers who purchase retail copies will not have a browser that they can use to download a browser. Therefore, Microsoft will offer IE8 via CD, FTP, and retail channels. It looks like Mozilla, Opera, Google, and Apple will have to do the same if they want European Windows 7 adopters to have access to their browsers.

And anyone who actively buys the retail version from a store or online, to perform a clean install, will have done some planning and therefore will have a browser on a flash drive As they would for any other software they normally install.

Microsoft notes that the decision affects both OEM and Retail versions of Windows 7 products. While OEMs will have access to a free "IE8 pack" that allows them to add the browser back in, consumers who purchase retail copies will not have a browser that they can use to download a browser. Therefore, Microsoft will offer IE8 via CD, FTP, and retail channels. It looks like Mozilla, Opera, Google, and Apple will have to do the same if they want European Windows 7 adopters to have access to their browsers.

So MS is literally de-integrating IE from the Win OS? I'll believe it when I see it. You uninstall IE from Vista, and it's still there behind the scenes. All the EU did was making it harder for the avg Windows user (who isn't technically-inclined) to figure out how to get on the net. Way to go.

While you're at it, make Windows de-integrate their window manager, their task bar, their resource monitor ... because I'm sick and tired of that crap being pre-installed! I want to install my own versions, dammit! In fact, just rollback Windows to nothing but a command-line install delivered via floppies. Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure (that the squeaky wheel STFU's.)

EDIT: Here's the better option the EU should have allowed MS to take. Let Windows install IE, but make IE de-integrated from Windows. After installation, the user is prompted to get their internet connected then 1) either keep IE, or b) pick from a browser from a different group. If user picks a different browser via the wizard, Windows will go to that site's download page, download, install it, migrate features (bookmarks, etc), then uninstall IE once user is happy that new browser is up and running. YES, the average Windows user DOES need this kind of hand-holding. You folks assuming the avg user won't have an issue switching the browser on their own, I don't exactly see you quoting usability studies. Jakob Nielsen just did an article on guesses vs. usability studies. The avg technical user is guessing wrong about the capability of the avg non-technical user most of the time.

Happy to see this happen, wish it would happen in the US too. Not the best solution for consumers; I would have preferred to see a system where the user was prompted to choose which browser they want. But it's better than nothing.

Internet Explorer is one of the worst pieces of software ever written. It's 10 times slower than Firefox/Chrome/Safari, riddled with security holes, defaults everything to MSN/Live/Bing to help prop up Microsoft's crappy offerings...and yet, despite all this crappiness, it's the number one browser on the planet.

It's high time that changed by any means necessary so the internet can move on from the insecure/non-standard/non-innovative pile of shit that is IE.

Originally posted by dragosani:Has Microsoft learned not to get into a battle with the EU?

Quite the opposite I'd say. This looks like a declaration of war to me.

By making this (extreme) move unilaterally, MS tries to defuse the antitrust suit, but at the same time still place itself ahead of competitors. Note the reference to CD distribution of IE8 - something none of the other smaller players will be able to do - or FTP, which is impossible for any normal user with the FTP client included in Windows.

In other words, Microsoft manages to put itself in a position where it can say it's not abusing it's position, but it still vastly better positioned than any of the competitors.

Had they removed it only from OEM versions it would have been because they gave up the fight - removing it from retail versions is definitely a move meant to escalate the war. Personally I think it'll bite them in the a**, but - let's see where this goes from here.

I agree although I think this is a much smarter move than you are giving them credit for. If they remove their own web browser and not serve up any others, they can distance themselves from the antitrust crap and say "hey look, we're not violating any antitrust laws." Then just include a 'complimentary' CD of IE8 with the OS CD. It will be up to the user to install a web browser, but in order to download one you either have to use FTP or pop in the CD and instll IE8. Either way, the descision is left totally to the consumer and taken out of the hands of Microsoft, thus eliminating any reasons for an antitrust suit.

Of course the more tech savvy people will most likely already have a web browser on a USB thumb or external drive.

Although this is the EU we're talking bout so I'm sure they'd come up with some off the wall tangent to go off on and still persue the matter.

Most people who aren't tech-savy don't buy windows and install it themselves. The ones who do will mostly find it to be a minor inconvenience. The ones who don't will find that the company they bought the computer from has already installed something... most likely firefox.

Interesting turn of events. I wonder if this is actually some cause for celebration amongst the IE8 development team. If they have any pride in their work (and I hope they do) they're probably tired of hearing that the only reason IE is dominant is because it's bundled, not because it's a superior browsing experience. At least in Europe, they'll be able to see who really likes IE, and who just goes with the flow.

The vast majority of users will be unaffected since the OEMs will certainly include a browser of some sort, otherwise their buyers are going to be pissed...

It almost certainly is the majority, but I don't think the pool of consumers that will buy the new OS for their already existing computer, and attempt to do a clean install, is insignificant. If these people aren't prepared, this could be a pain in the ass to deal with for a large number of people.

Personally, I find that hilarious. It would be awesome if there's a backlash against the regulators as a result.

Wow - totally dumb! Logic defeats this. I am not the biggest fan of Windows but I use it and like some of its features. I also like Osx. Does that mean that Apple can't put Safari in their os? Europe really fucked up this one. Really stupid. There is nothing wrong with Microsoft putting their browser in their operating sysytem.Get it? WTF? These stupid laws are so fucking stupid? I hate government meddling. This is a dumb as a government that would bail out dinasour auto makers or crooked banks. Why do we elect these morons?

Consumers may now get a PC that has FireFox as the default browser rather than IE8. That can't be considered a bad thing, can it?

I also find the notion that there is no way to get a browser downloaded onto a Windows machine hard to swallow. Windows itself has a whole framework for the installation of add-ons that could be used to download and install IE8. The file browser also supports FTP and other protocols automatically. Or, are all those features so tied into IE that they are just going to cripple the whole OS?

I love it. Nothing better than avoiding the fine, giving them what they want and calling the EU out for the stupid investigation in the first place. The price of computers in the EU will go up as a result because OEMs have to do more work. Let's hope Microsoft offers no way to slipstream the IE8 pack into the default installation. At first glance this is a great move on Microsoft's part. We'll see how it plays out. Hopefully, the outcry from EU companies over the next few months will be large enough to allow Microsoft to remove the special EU edition and stop the investigation.

Originally posted by Tundro Walker:So MS is literally de-integrating IE from the Win OS? I'll believe it when I see it. You uninstall IE from Vista, and it's still there behind the scenes. All the EU did was making it harder for the avg Windows user (who isn't technically-inclined) to figure out how to get on the net. Way to go.

While you're at it, make Windows de-integrate their window manager, their task bar, their resource monitor ... because I'm sick and tired of that crap being pre-installed! I want to install my own versions, dammit! In fact, just rollback Windows to nothing but a command-line install delivered via floppies. Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure (that the squeaky wheel STFU's.)

The back-end of IE is very integral to Windows. That part is not removed. It's the web browser program that's removed. I don't really see this as a big deal since most computers are going to be bought from the OEM with a web browser installed already.

The vast majority of users will be unaffected since the OEMs will certainly include a browser of some sort, otherwise their buyers are going to be pissed...

It almost certainly is the majority, but I don't think the pool of consumers that will buy the new OS for their already existing computer, and attempt to do a clean install, is insignificant. If these people aren't prepared, this could be a pain in the ass to deal with for a large number of people.

The pool of consumers that are going to do a clean install without any preparation is insignificant, and has a lot more to worry about than getting installing a browser.

Seriously, please stop with the "how will your average mom'n'pop download their browser"? Joe average buys them from the OEM, and every single one will have IE8 pre-installed because they don't want to be flooded with complaints. The handful of Joe slighty-above-averages who actually purchase Windows in the store to install it themselves will leave the store with an extra CD, because the store doesn't want to be flooded with complaints.

So this will affect nothing except create a bit more work for OEMs and stores. Yeah, it's stupidity all around, but we will not see hordes of users with no means to get on the web.

For everyone wondering why the EU doesn't inflict the same sanctions against Apple, Apple has essentially zero consumer PC market share, so the EU isn't able to inflict their will upon them. They simply don't have a case because Apple doesn't have a market presence in PC's.

Originally posted by Kressilac:I love it. Nothing better than avoiding the fine, giving them what they want and calling the EU out for the stupid investigation in the first place. The price of computers in the EU will go up as a result because OEMs have to do more work. Let's hope Microsoft offers no way to slipstream the IE8 pack into the default installation. At first glance this is a great move on Microsoft's part. We'll see how it plays out. Hopefully, the outcry from EU companies over the next few months will be large enough to allow Microsoft to remove the special EU edition and stop the investigation.

Just picking your post as one example of American Nationalism/American Capitalism/Republicanism. Plenty of them in this thread.

It makes my head hurt how people can - in all honesty - defend a world where mega-corporations rule, crush their competitors at will and abuse their monopolies.

Look at the worlds banking- and finance sectors and see what your precious de-regulation have done for you and the world? Yes that's right - caused a recession.

Regulations isn't bad - it can be overdone, but it CERTAINLY can be under-done too, and you just refuse to see that - here or anywhere else.

Edit:

quote:

Originally posted by MrYoung:microsoft should say "screw europe', stop doing business with them, and let them all have to fork over thousands to run mac os (and macs bundled browser

windows is microsofts product, they should bundle there own browser and NOT that of competitors.

Have to add this one as an even better example of misunderstood American Nationalism (and lack of understanding of Globalism).

Besides the fact that this would help noone, it's not in Microsofts interest to give up a huge market to Apple and Linux. I know you probably think that the American market is the only one that matters. I got news for ya - wake up.