So I too, am in the process of a remodel. In this case, it is a single room, that we are converting into an office and a storage/server room. We will have two workstations in the office, as can be seen in the picture below. The plan is to run conduit to future proof, as well as for future remodeling. The eastern half of the southern wall in this picture borders a utility room that gives good access to all rooms in the house. Thus, I'll be running a 2" conduit from the server location to the utility room (which currently will have no wire inside, but a string for later use).

I'd also like to run 1" (or half inch) conduit to the two locations labeled patch plate 1 and 2 (one for each desk), and also conduit to a third location on the southern wall.

How would the patch plate 1 and 2 typically be done? With a single conduit path and a T of some sort to go down to the first patch plate (2 in this case)? Or with two separate runs of conduit? If a T, what does such a fitting look like?

Also, what do you use to terminate the conduit runs? I have seen some no-backed low voltage trim plates that you cut out of the drywall, and insert into the wall. Is this the way to go? Or is it better (since the walls are going to be open) to use the equiv of a 1 gang electrical junction box? And how does one connect the conduit to these boxes? Any details would be greatly appreciated.

what's above that room? If it's an attic, I would simply run vertical conduit for box 1, box 2, and the server location. I'd free-run the cables through the attic space.

If not, do you have a basement below where you could do the same thing?

If none of the above, do you have baseboard that you could route a channel into, and string horizontally along the wall, drill/hop through that new wall, and continue on back around to the server location?

FYI, you can't use hard T type joins, because they don't support the minimum bend radius for LV cabling (Cat5, etc). Bare minimum, a junction box (they make LV boxes for this purpose)

what's above that room? If it's an attic, I would simply run vertical conduit for box 1, box 2, and the server location. I'd free-run the cables through the attic space.

If not, do you have a basement below where you could do the same thing?

If none of the above, do you have baseboard that you could route a channel into, and string horizontally along the wall, drill/hop through that new wall, and continue on back around to the server location?

FYI, you can't use hard T type joins, because they don't support the minimum bend radius for LV cabling (Cat5, etc). Bare minimum, a junction box (they make LV boxes for this purpose)

Good to know regarding the T. This is a walk-out basement room, so unfortunately, I have no good access above or below.

The good news is that the wall with the patch panels shown is currently studs, so I have full access to run anything that would be needed (if I am interpreting your suggestion as an easy way to run the wire without needing conduit).

The good news is that the wall with the patch panels shown is currently studs, so I have full access to run anything that would be needed (if I am interpreting your suggestion as an easy way to run the wire without needing conduit).

Yep, you can run horizontal inwall if you feel comfortable drilling the studs. If you didn't have the studs open, you could have routed on the backside of base molding, but in-wall is better. Oh, DO NOT STAPLE.

The good news is that the wall with the patch panels shown is currently studs, so I have full access to run anything that would be needed (if I am interpreting your suggestion as an easy way to run the wire without needing conduit).

Yep, you can run horizontal inwall if you feel comfortable drilling the studs. If you didn't have the studs open, you could have routed on the backside of base molding, but in-wall is better. Oh, DO NOT STAPLE.

Perfectly fine drilling the studs (non-structural wall). So would it be best to run two individual conduit lines then, since I can't T easily?

Also, there are high voltage lines running horizontally through that wall. I understand that I don't want to run data lines too close, in parallel to HV lines. How close is too close? Is keeping them 18" apart enough?

You could get away with simply cross-drilling the studs between location 1 and location 2, pulling raw from 2 to 1, and then conduit through to server location...pull both runs in the same conduit (don't forget a pull string for the future). If you want to get fancy, use an LV junction box (at Loc 1) and do conduit between Loc 1 and Loc 2, but not strictly necessary. No need for two conduit runs all the way.

18" is fine for separation, IME.

edit: ALSO, while most folks don't think of it, there is really zero reason to have your patch outlets way down where a traditional AC line would be. It's incredibly handy to have those data outlets at just above desk level. You can *Always* drop a cable down behind a desk for a floor-based system, but it really sucks to have to bend down/under desks all the time to plug/unplug data cables.

The good news is that the wall with the patch panels shown is currently studs, so I have full access to run anything that would be needed (if I am interpreting your suggestion as an easy way to run the wire without needing conduit).

Yep, you can run horizontal inwall if you feel comfortable drilling the studs. If you didn't have the studs open, you could have routed on the backside of base molding, but in-wall is better. Oh, DO NOT STAPLE.

Perfectly fine drilling the studs (non-structural wall). So would it be best to run two individual conduit lines then, since I can't T easily?

Also, there are high voltage lines running horizontally through that wall. I understand that I don't want to run data lines too close, in parallel to HV lines. How close is too close? Is keeping them 18" apart enough?

And if you have to cross the electrical lines, do as close to 90-degree crosses as possible, from my understanding that helps minimize potential for cross-talk/noise.

So would it be best to run two individual conduit lines then, since I can't T easily?

I would, yes. It's just easier in general and you have plenty of space for that. Also, I'd suggest going 2" conduit all around. At a minimum, compare the cost each way. You often can save money buying more 2" and the extra space could, conceivably, be handy down the road. That said, 1" is probably more than enough but assuming the cost difference isn't extreme and it doesn't cause issues of some sort (needing different boxes, etc) I'd do 2" all over.

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Also, there are high voltage lines running horizontally through that wall. I understand that I don't want to run data lines too close, in parallel to HV lines. How close is too close? Is keeping them 18" apart enough?

Define high voltage, please. I'd say if you kep them 18" apart you're likely OK but, if you can run them farther apart, do so. If the power is run along the bottom half of the wall, route your conduit up top then drop it down so it passes at 90 degrees. If the power's at the mid-point and you have to route the conduit along the path, you might want to run the conduit in a wavy pattern that breaks up the space as much as possible. I know that sounds odd but if you're talking significant voltage it may be necessary to avoid issues down the road. If you just mean 120v, though, you're probably fine with 18" separation for that distance.

I would, yes. It's just easier in general and you have plenty of space for that. Also, I'd suggest going 2" conduit all around. At a minimum, compare the cost each way. You often can save money buying more 2" and the extra space could, conceivably, be handy down the road. That said, 1" is probably more than enough but assuming the cost difference isn't extreme and it doesn't cause issues of some sort (needing different boxes, etc) I'd do 2" all over.

Well, I happen to have 25' of 2" conduit from a friend that is left over from his project, so no worries there.

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Define high voltage, please. I'd say if you kep them 18" apart you're likely OK but, if you can run them farther apart, do so. If the power is run along the bottom half of the wall, route your conduit up top then drop it down so it passes at 90 degrees. If the power's at the mid-point and you have to route the conduit along the path, you might want to run the conduit in a wavy pattern that breaks up the space as much as possible. I know that sounds odd but if you're talking significant voltage it may be necessary to avoid issues down the road. If you just mean 120v, though, you're probably fine with 18" separation for that distance.

Oops, should have said "line voltage" instead of high voltage. It is just 120v. The one issue with where I run the conduit and voltage interference is that box you see drawn on the eastern wall. It is the breaker panel for the house, and has circuits running both up, and down out of the box. There are fewer running down, but it is a bit of a mess of line voltage lines that I'll need to run through. I may re-run the lines in a more orderly fashion to get them out of the way for my data conduit run.

I am in DSL land (only broadband internet available here). The installers were quite good, and put an outside DSL splitter on the incoming phone line. They then ran 1 line to our kitchen (where our phone is), and the DSL split line over to the bedroom where our office currently is. I am going to need to move said line from the bedroom to the new basement office.

Is there any sense in using Cat5/5e/6 for this line? Or should I just use the wire they ran (along the outside of the house) to the bedroom (it is plenty long to feed down to the basement).

(I should note- we have a phone in the kitchen, and 3 add-on cordless phones throughout the house that simply have a charging base, but use the kitchen base as their connection).

Generally speaking, the risk of intereference from 60Hz mains is greatly overstated. I really wouldn't worry about it too terribly much.

It definitely is!

All my ethernet cabling, except for the guest bedroom lower server room, runs 2-20m in parallel with the mains lines. And I mean THE, as the room where all cabling comes together is surrounded at the top with a really thick conduit that connects the mains cabling to the central fuse box. Yes, for several meters there's 3-phase mains included.

I certainly would have preferred to not do this, but I have not had any problems with this. All the wires are Cat6a meeting Cat7 spec SFTP and run at Gbit speed.

While we are on the topic, here is another thing I have been wondering about. Is there any advantage to using the so-called smurf tube versus the basic PVC stuff you would find at Home Depot? I haven't done a full-on price comparison yet, but it seems from what I have seen that that the smurf is pretty expensive. I am not sure why it might be better, other than it would be easier to make bends in the route. But if you wanted to make a straight run, for example from up in the attic down to a plate, it seems that a nice section of PVC pipe would do the trick fine, and maybe even be easier to put into place (assuming open walls).

And another related question. If you are using an attic as the main location for the routing, I can see as Frennzy said that free-running the cables in the attic would be fine, in other words, no need to run conduit all over the place up there. I did this in my retro rewire, but I now realize that all those network cables are just laying there on top of the insulation and the cross beams. If anyone is up there clomping around (for example, termite inspector) these might be at risk of getting damaged. Given that, I would think that a better method would be to get all of the cables upward and then make the horizontal runs near at the top (roof-level). A system of j-hooks or maybe some sort of trays for the routing would take a little more work, but it would be neater and less susceptible to damage.

Have you considered running conduit through the other walls as well? Doing so would be great for future-proofing. I would put one on either side of the door, plus another in the wall shared with the server/server room.

Even if those walls are currently closed up, now would be a good time to add conduit to them. Patching them back up wouldn't add much on top of what you already have to do.

While we are on the topic, here is another thing I have been wondering about. Is there any advantage to using the so-called smurf tube versus the basic PVC stuff you would find at Home Depot? I haven't done a full-on price comparison yet, but it seems from what I have seen that that the smurf is pretty expensive. I am not sure why it might be better, other than it would be easier to make bends in the route. But if you wanted to make a straight run, for example from up in the attic down to a plate, it seems that a nice section of PVC pipe would do the trick fine, and maybe even be easier to put into place (assuming open walls).

ENT (aka smurf tube) is generally 2x as expensive as it's SCH40 rigid counterpart. ENT pays off in it's time to install. If you're doing the work yourself, it may not be worth it. In my opinion, it's ALWAYS worth it, money be damned! ENT uses mechanical "click lock" fittings to terminate into boxes or to couples sections of ENT. No primer or cement. Far fewer less fittings ever need be purchased since ENT, in it's nature, is flexible. No running back to the supply store because you needed just one more 90 bend. Three times. Even for straight sections rigid PVC can be a pain to run, especially in small, cramped spaces like attics.

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And another related question. If you are using an attic as the main location for the routing, I can see as Frennzy said that free-running the cables in the attic would be fine, in other words, no need to run conduit all over the place up there. I did this in my retro rewire, but I now realize that all those network cables are just laying there on top of the insulation and the cross beams. If anyone is up there clomping around (for example, termite inspector) these might be at risk of getting damaged. Given that, I would think that a better method would be to get all of the cables upward and then make the horizontal runs near at the top (roof-level). A system of j-hooks or maybe some sort of trays for the routing would take a little more work, but it would be neater and less susceptible to damage.

Oh, god yeah, running parallel to 120 isn't likely to cause issues unless you screw up and the run isn't to spec because you pulled too hard on a cable or something. Usually it's a whole house power feed you see issues with in residential, if anything. It can be much more of an issue in industrial settings.

I'd run new Cat5 instead of repurposing an unknown quality cable for the DSL feed. Cat5 is cheap; why take a chance the stuff's going to be damaged when you move it about?

LordAthens covered the reasons to use smurf quite well. Unless you have a mobile hardware store, PVC is just a pain and the work boxes where you're going to terminate aren't made to interface with it. With proper conduit, this isn't an issue. It also avoids future confusion as to what is in that conduit, water or Cat5, if a wall is penetrated. That's a minor chance but you never know. Personally, I curse at the last guys to work on a site enough to always try and think of the next one whenever possible. I suspect LordAthens would agree.

Oh, god yeah, running parallel to 120 isn't likely to cause issues unless you screw up and the run isn't to spec because you pulled too hard on a cable or something. Usually it's a whole house power feed you see issues with in residential, if anything. It can be much more of an issue in industrial settings.

Excellent. Now that I've had a chance to look at things, I'll easily be able to keep the data conduit more than 12" away when running parallel, so I should be fine.

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I'd run new Cat5 instead of repurposing an unknown quality cable for the DSL feed. Cat5 is cheap; why take a chance the stuff's going to be damaged when you move it about?

Ok, I will definitely run Cat5 then (actually cat5e which I've got on order). Speaking of running the connection in from the house, I've got a slight problem. The drywall contractor will start on Tuesday, and I won't be getting my Cat5e spool until Thursday. I figured I could just run some smurf tube from where the DSL cat5 line would come into the house, down to the box where the receptacle will be. However, I have no idea how to terminate the smurf tube on the outside of the house. The prior lines that were run, the installer simply drilled a small hole in the sheathing of the house, ran the cable, and used a squirt of silicon to seal it up. Since the drywall will be installed, and I wont have an easy access (I'll have to go down through the top plate of the wall, and through insulation) I need to do it with conduit. Any ideas of what I can do here? Are there fixtures that attach to the outside of the house that you can attach smurf tube to?

Ok, I will definitely run Cat5 then (actually cat5e which I've got on order).

Yeah, Cat5e is perfect. Honestly, I haven't seen, let alone used, plain old Cat5 in years but I should learn to be more specific.

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Speaking of running the connection in from the house, I've got a slight problem. The drywall contractor will start on Tuesday, and I won't be getting my Cat5e spool until Thursday. I figured I could just run some smurf tube from where the DSL cat5 line would come into the house, down to the box where the receptacle will be. However, I have no idea how to terminate the smurf tube on the outside of the house. The prior lines that were run, the installer simply drilled a small hole in the sheathing of the house, ran the cable, and used a squirt of silicon to seal it up. Since the drywall will be installed, and I wont have an easy access (I'll have to go down through the top plate of the wall, and through insulation) I need to do it with conduit. Any ideas of what I can do here? Are there fixtures that attach to the outside of the house that you can attach smurf tube to?

The old installer was doing it right; you want as small a penetration in the exterior as possible or you run major risk of water seepage later. I've never seen a solution like that, though I suppose one probably exists. Personally, I'd suggest just running the Cat5 for the DSL now and terminate it later. Scheduling network drops to go in before drywallers arrive is one of the most important aspects of a project like this, as you're finding.

The old installer was doing it right; you want as small a penetration in the exterior as possible or you run major risk of water seepage later. I've never seen a solution like that, though I suppose one probably exists. Personally, I'd suggest just running the Cat5 for the DSL now and terminate it later.

Excepting I don't have any cat5e to run yet, and it is a somewhat long run to the DSL filter on the side of the house. I think what I'll do is- 1) drill a small hole that I can run cat5e through, 2) run conduit up inside to said hole, 3) run a string through the conduit, and route string out through the hole, 4) tie a dowel or something to the string so it cant be pulled back through, 5) put duct tape over the hole until Thursday, 6) on Thursday, tie string to Cat5e, and pull it down into the conduit and down to the outlet. I think it should work

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Scheduling network drops to go in before drywallers arrive is one of the most important aspects of a project like this, as you're finding.

I thought that was the whole point of running conduit! (being able to run network wiring after the drywall is up)

edit: ALSO, while most folks don't think of it, there is really zero reason to have your patch outlets way down where a traditional AC line would be. It's incredibly handy to have those data outlets at just above desk level. You can *Always* drop a cable down behind a desk for a floor-based system, but it really sucks to have to bend down/under desks all the time to plug/unplug data cables.

In an install like this, one might even want to do a high and low double gang set of outlets and network connections.

I think what I'll do is- 1) drill a small hole that I can run cat5e through, 2) run conduit up inside to said hole, 3) run a string through the conduit, and route string out through the hole, 4) tie a dowel or something to the string so it cant be pulled back through, 5) put duct tape over the hole until Thursday, 6) on Thursday, tie string to Cat5e, and pull it down into the conduit and down to the outlet. I think it should work

Problem there is you'll be stressing the Cat5 past it's "proper" design limits. Since you're talking DSL, it'll probably be OK but it might be best to have someone else to be pushing the cable in from the outside gently while you pull from the other end.

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Scheduling network drops to go in before drywallers arrive is one of the most important aspects of a project like this, as you're finding.

I thought that was the whole point of running conduit! (being able to run network wiring after the drywall is up)

It is but then conduit becomes the wiring run. You also don't have a "perfect install" scenario ... not that any install is really ever quite perfect.

edit: ALSO, while most folks don't think of it, there is really zero reason to have your patch outlets way down where a traditional AC line would be. It's incredibly handy to have those data outlets at just above desk level. You can *Always* drop a cable down behind a desk for a floor-based system, but it really sucks to have to bend down/under desks all the time to plug/unplug data cables.

In an install like this, one might even want to do a high and low double gang set of outlets and network connections.

My advice, if you're doing this to future proof, then home run each box back to the central location inside flexible conduit. You don't want to have to pull through 90 degree bends and if you were to switch to fiber in the future, you wouldn't be able to use 90 degree bends. If you don't care about future proofing, just pull Cat6 today and don't worry about it.

Don't forget: When pulling the cables, pull a piece of pull rope inside the conduit. This will help if you want to add another cable without having to remove the existing.

And +1 to putting the outlets up off the ground. Even though Murphy's law says that wherever you put the jack, someone will want to put something right in front of it.

If you don't care about future proofing, just pull Cat6 today and don't worry about it.

Cat5e is sufficient for what is needed. Cat6 has much tighter requirements to get correct which is very unlikely for most folks to meet, making it literally no better than Cat5e anyhow. Don't waste your money on anything beyond Cat5e unless you're going with fiber.

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Don't forget: When pulling the cables, pull a piece of pull rope inside the conduit. This will help if you want to add another cable without having to remove the existing.

Yes, if you don't care about future proofing the current wiring, Cat5e is totally ok.If you gun on 10Gbit over copper, do 6a, not 6. It has some serious drawbacks, though. It is thicker and wiring it correctly is a pain. Iirc you may only remove the shielding of pairs for half an inch and untangling is as good as entirely prohibited. It's a major pain compared to Cat5e.I did run that stuff and I would just do Cat5e in hindsight.

Future proofing is all well and good bt I have serious doubts that anyone really needs 10Gbit in a home or small business environment, and even if they do, they should go with fiber. Cat6 and Cat6a are just too finicky to deal with; you're almost guaranteed to screw something up and then you lose any potential benefit.

Future proofing is all well and good bt I have serious doubts that anyone really needs 10Gbit in a home or small business environment,

I remember a conversation with a colleague some years ago. He said there's not going to be any use for Gbit in home environments, 100Mbit will be fine for practically everything. Besides that, Gbit will happen almost entirely on fiber.If I see now how much of a limit Gbit can be in some cases, it feels like 100Mbit again. A movie needing a minute to transfer at wire speed? We're there again.We'll see how the practical limit for copper looks in some years. I'm not as sure as I was with Gbit that copper will stay the norm.

And while I agree, and hence have warned of, the problems of wiring Cat >5 properly, I would either do that or 5e. If there is conduit I'd speculate on the fiber stuff dropping in price massively once it becomes mainstream tech. (It kinda is mainstream, but at a too high level, yet.)

1)I would recommend to build the wall between the server room and the office from lime sand brick instead of drywall. (Get a real wall.)

2)Get 240V or 208V at least to the server room.

Regards

The "server room" is really a large storage room, which will happen to have a small file/backup server for our home/home office. This definitely is not going to be some noisy/power hungry server by any means. Doing a brick wall there would have been quite cost prohibitive, and IMO would have been overkill for what it is

As for the 240V, the rectangle you see next to where I have "server" is a 200amp service panel. I can easily add a circuit if need be (as it is, I did give a dedicated 20amp 120v circuit just for the server).

xsvtoys wrote:

Awesome. This would be the sort of thing where some posted pictures wouldn't be minded at all! (At least by me).

Definitely. I took before pictures, and pictures last night (pre-drywall), and I'll take some tonight as the drywall is all up (not mudded/taped yet). Unfortunately, the conduit and wiring was covered up with insulation by the time I took the picture, but I can trace out where the conduit runs.

Here is the main room, and the route from the back-room server, to the two desk-level junctions:

And in the back-room, the run goes around the corner, then up to the 2-gang box which will have an 8-port patch panel. The red line is conduit for the incoming DSL from outside:

From the 2-gang junction I ran conduit up and out to the non-finished utility room. From the utility room, I've got easy access to fish conduit up through a wall cavity on the main floor, all the way to the attic. From there I can get to any room on the main floor. I can also pretty easily get from the utility room to the basement living room, and bedroom. So this will let me run wires all over the house should I decide to:

1)I would recommend to build the wall between the server room and the office from lime sand brick instead of drywall. (Get a real wall.)

2)Get 240V or 208V at least to the server room.

Regards

You realize this is a residence, right? So, immediately, it's not going to have 3ph. Further, running 240 for even a few home servers is nothing more than an exercise in wasting money.

I always wonder if people realize just how much power a 120v/20A (or even 15A) circuit is capable of supplying. 2400w is quite a lot of power. My 1st gen i7, overclocked, 4 DIMM's, 2 opticals, 3 external drive, 7 internal drives (6 of which are mechanical), 5750HD with a 21" LCD and some networking gear attached to the same meter, pulls 210w at "idle", 270w when encoding, a bit over 300w when running Prime95 and Furmark. High end graphics cards pull the most power by far on enthusiast rigs, which certainly won't be in any type of actual server. A current gen3 pulls even less. So even at full tilt, I could plug 8 of these identical machines into a single 20A circuit and be fine (typical breakers won't trip out until a few amps over their rating. As an example, I have a 30A breaker that runs a 3000w xenon arc lamp, 3/4hp rotation motor, control circuits and some relays and solenoids. At the outlet that light pulls 32.3A, but the breaker holds just fine.

I ran the Cat5e through the conduit last weekend, and in the end, all went well.

I first made a mistake by trying to run each cable individually. Stuff got stuck, and I didn't want to pull too hard, so I backed it all out, and pulled all 5 cables in one bundle. I happened to have a bottle of wire lubricant from when I ran outdoor romex 250' through conduit to our septic pump, and used that liberally. Was able to pull the 5 cable bundle with almost no resistance.

I am also quite happy with the decision to run conduit to the utility room. Once I got my new wifi router hooked up, I realized that being surrounded on 3 sides with cinder blocks (the new office was a garage long ago) was killing my wifi mojo quite a bit. Ran conduit + one Cat5e cable up into the attic, and dropped it down into our pantry, where I built a little shelf and set up my old Airport Extreme as a wifi bridge. Now I have a good strong wifi signal throughout the house.

It seems odd at first that running 5 cables is easier than one but they stiffen each other up and that tends to make the difference. Sounds as though you're all but there. It's always nice when a plan comes together, eh?