I received the “Pie Eyed” DVD yesterday from Vince Amcio and watched it numerous times last evening. I only watched the one part of the video. In my opinion the DVD video is very good even if it is only in black and white. I liked to hear the history of tomato pies and had fun watching and hearing what different tomato pie businesses do. I especially enjoyed Jimmy De Lorenzo talking about tomato pies and his family at the beginning of the video. Jimmy said the best tomato pie maker of the whole family was John. Trenton Bill received his video on Tuesday and also enjoyed it. I have to watch much more in slow motion to see what I might have missed.

I am not sure if someone else would enjoy watching the “Pie Eyed” DVD, but I did.

One question, and, I'm sure this has been described ad nauseam: what is the "poppy seed" trick?

The poppy seed trick is just a simple way of determining how much a dough ball has expanded during fermentation. It has some limitations but overall I have found the method to be useful to me, especially since I usually use it consistently in the same way so that everything remains relative. As Norma noted, you can read about the poppy seed method at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6914.msg59335.html#msg59335.

I really don't know what the words "the dough is a loose stretchy dough that bakes into a crackling crust so brittle and drumhead-thin, it snaps to the bite" mean. For example, what does "loose" mean? Is it a degree of extensibility and, if so, how extensible? And does "brittle" mean that the crust will shatter like a sheet of glass? That would imply a cracker style pizza, which is different than what the De Lorenzo's offered at Hudson. Words have different meanings to different people, and even more so to staff writers who have to be creative and clever and use catchy words in their writing. This is why I pay little attention to reviewers who are just consumers, and not in the pizza business. Photos can also be deceiving, especially a single snapshot. One snapshot does not tell us what the previous snapshot was or what the following one was.

Peter

Peter,

I really don't know what the terms “loose” and extensibility mean. I also don't really know what “brittle” means either. I know terms and photos can be deceiving.

Stuart,Is there too much cheese, ands maybe not in the right form (shredded)? Or is the crust too thick?

It looks to me like the cheese is on top and the sauce on the bottom. The pie seems raw, with some yellow stuff on the palate...and the cheese seems to be covering everything in the middle...with sauce sneaking out at the edges.

This all gets to my point about "tomato" pie....being just a name that was used until fairly recently for post-WWII pizza places, in New Jersey (as that's what I'm familiar with). I'm not sure that Trenton was really making a separate version of NJ pizza that always put the sauce on top....I think that someone like Gary or Chick must have figured out at some point that cheese on the crust directly, vs. sauce, is likely to help maintain the crisp, rigid crust better. The picture looks like from the '70s, I'd guess...and I'm wondering if Delorenzo's was making conventional, sauce on the bottom pies then?

Thanks all for the link to the poppy "trick".

FWIW, I bought that video when it came out, years ago....and talked to the "film maker" ....I have to say, I learned nothing much from it....in any aspect. But, I'm all ears if others disagree..

This post is to report that Trenton Bill used Vince Amico's recipe on the Pie Eyed video and thought the pizza made from that recipe was very good. Bill only used 9.7 ounces of dough from that recipe, but thinks he will try 10 ounces the next time. Bill mixed the dough this morning and was finished at about 10:00 AM this morning mixing. Bill did not use hot water. Bill mixed for 15 mintues, but used only .25 grams of IDY. Bill said he left the dough ball sit out on his porch at about 80 degrees F until he made the pizza in the BS late this afternoon. Bill did use the Pillsbury Bakers Patent flour.

I used Peter's De Lorenzo Dough Clone Formulation # 6 at Reply 745 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg281529.html#msg281529 and mixed by the methods he posted and did everything he posted. The dough was mixed yesterday. The final dough temperature was 78.4 degrees F. I did use the poppy seed trick on this dough ball and used the cornmeal to coat the bottom of the plastic container. I plan to bake this dough ball at Steve's home later tomorrow in the Blackstone unit. I have been having a pain on my left side since I got home from market on Tuesday and have been feeling bad generally. I thought it might be I was just tired from Tuesday, but am going to the doctor this morning. Hopefully the doctor gets me straightened out until tomorrow.

Well, Peter, you may be right about Lorenzo. But, the "chef", Matt Longo, who's been with them for a long time at both places, will also be playing a bigger role, I'd guess. He's a good guy and a smart guy, and he and Sam are looking to the future and another restaurant, I'm told. Matt would be able to take over one of them. Sam, I read recently, has an MBA, and a plan. Given the demand and the reputation, I'd bet on that plan working. Lorenzo could step into a nice operation. Very nice family setting.

RE: pulling the pies...that's what they do...pull them from the edges. I'd guess that they need to not pull from the center to keep the rigidity in the middle of the pie, so they do the final stretch from the edges, in a circular pattern. It make sense, as they bang out the centers, essentially compacting the dough into a strong base...then do the edges so they don't puff up and out too much and become too doughy. I learned that from them a long time ago....

RE: stretching it out so easily.....i reiterate that your #4 formulation is really the first time I was able to do that with dough. I used to watch Sam dramatically stretch out his dough and marvel. He did it pretty quickly, and not exactly gently, too.

The picture of Gary looks a little too sheer for what I think of when they make pies..more like over-extensibility that I've had previously. Maybe he was posing for the camera and the dough decided to droop?

I think it is cool that Sam and Gary are back together again. Before you know it, Lorenzo, Sam's son, may be joining his father and grandfather in the business.

Peter

Peter,

I agree since Sam started making pizza in his parent's place at 14 years old that was long enough for him to learn how to open up dough balls and make it look so easy. I sure wish I could make it look that easy.

I did note how transparent the skin was. I wonder if we have a low enough TF in some ways. None of my skins looked that thin. Maybe the skins does stretch back some when it is put on the peel, because it sure does not look that thin to me when it is on the wooden peel with dressings in the other photo. I also thought the amount of cheese looked like more cheese than I saw being applied when I was at De Lorenzo/Robbinsville. I did not think about Gary and Sam's grab techniques, but you are right they do grab the edges of the skin. I wonder if we should try that. I would have thought Sam's left thumb would have gone through that skin, but guess you are right Sam does know what he is doing.

What do you think is in that bowl beside where the skin is being pressed out. It doesn't look to me like it is regular flour. Do you think some cornmeal or semolina might be in with the flour?

I don't think the edges of the pizza look as charred as much as they usually are.

I also think it is cool that Sam and Gary are back together again. They both look so happy. You are right that Sam's son my be joining his father and grandfather in the business before long.

Well, Peter, you may be right about Lorenzo. But, the "chef", Matt Longo, who's been with them for a long time at both places, will also be playing a bigger role, I'd guess. He's a good guy and a smart guy, and he and Sam are looking to the future and another restaurant, I'm told. Matt would be able to take over one of them. Sam, I read recently, has an MBA, and a plan. Given the demand and the reputation, I'd bet on that plan working. Lorenzo could step into a nice operation. Very nice family setting.

There have been rumors for some time, from Gary and others, that there are plans to open a second location. Philadelphia has been mentioned several times. I had also taken note of Matt since he was at both locations (Hudson and Robbinsville). I also observed other workers who were at Hudson and moved over to Robbinsville.

RE: pulling the pies...that's what they do...pull them from the edges. I'd guess that they need to not pull from the center to keep the rigidity in the middle of the pie, so they do the final stretch from the edges, in a circular pattern. It make sense, as they bang out the centers, essentially compacting the dough into a strong base...then do the edges so they don't puff up and out too much and become too doughy. I learned that from them a long time ago....

The picture of Gary looks a little too sheer for what I think of when they make pies..more like over-extensibility that I've had previously. Maybe he was posing for the camera and the dough decided to droop?

I actually think that the photo of Gary with the sheer skin was legitimate, and not for purposes of the article that was displayed at Facebook. A good skin should have a nice balance of elasticity and extensibility. What that means is that a skin that stretches outwardly (extensibility) should then retract (elasticity). If all the skin has is extensibility, it will remain in that state and you can't get it to shrink back no matter what you do. By that time, the genie is out of the bottle. When I made many of my test De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone skins, I was able to stretch them out to beyond 14", and when I did that I could see light through the skins. But when I stopped stretching, elasticity kicked in and the skins shrunk back as I put them onto my wooden peel. You see that same phenomenon in some of the photos and videos that have been posted in this thread.

I did note how transparent the skin was. I wonder if we have a low enough TF in some ways. None of my skins looked that thin. Maybe the skins does stretch back some when it is put on the peel, because it sure does not look that thin to me when it is on the wooden peel with dressings in the other photo. I also thought the amount of cheese looked like more cheese than I saw being applied when I was at De Lorenzo/Robbinsville. I did not think about Gary and Sam's grab techniques, but you are right they do grab the edges of the skin. I wonder if we should try that. I would have thought Sam's left thumb would have gone through that skin, but guess you are right Sam does know what he is doing.

As I mentioned in my last post, if you stretch a skin beyond 14", you are likely to be able to see light through it. We are used to thinking of the thickness factor from the standpoint of the desired final size, in our case, 14" for a small pizza. But as the skin is stretched, the thickness factor changes (decreases) in real time. And when the skin is allowed to retract so that it can be placed on the peel, the thickness factor increases in value and you won't be able to see through the skin. This is all normal and as it should be. In fact, the video (see below) that you posted when you visited De Lorenzo/Robbinsville does a reasonably good job of showing how a skin with good extensibility and elasticity behaves. Photos that we have seen before also show this phenomenon, including the photo at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3217_JPG.htm and the photo at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3228_JPG.htm .

While on the matter of thickness factor, I should mention that earlier today I made two more clone De Lorenzo/Robbinsville test doughs to test different thickness factors. I felt that I had run out of ideas for further test doughs based on hydration values and oil quantities. So, at this juncture, I wanted to test the effects of lower and higher thickness factors than we have been testing to date. If there is anything of value to come out of those test dough balls, I will report them in this thread.

What do you think is in that bowl beside where the skin is being pressed out. It doesn't look to me like it is regular flour. Do you think some cornmeal or semolina might be in with the flour?

At one time I speculated that the bowls might have contained either cornmeal or semolina. However, looking at a photo such as shown at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3159_JPG.htm, whatever it is in the dough boxes is yellow and not of the same color as what is shown in the bowl on the counter. I believe that the bowls on the counter, both small and large, contain flour. You will also see in the video referenced above that whatever is in the bowl next to the worker is used to dust the dough balls, both as dough balls and as skins. It wouldn't seem to make a great deal of sense to use cornmeal or semolina for those purposes. If I had to guess, the small bowl of flour is used for small dough balls, and the larger bowl is used for the larger dough balls. However, there is no reason why the large bowl can't be used for both sizes of dough balls. A photo that does a nice job of showing both size bowls is this one: http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3174_JPG.htm. If I had to guess, it might have been the lighting that made the flour in the photo you referenced look more yellow.

Norma,As I mentioned in my last post, if you stretch a skin beyond 14", you are likely to be able to see light through it. We are used to thinking of the thickness factor from the standpoint of the desired final size, in our case, 14" for a small pizza. But as the skin is stretched, the thickness factor changes (decreases) in real time. And when the skin is allowed to retract so that it can be placed on the peel, the thickness factor increases in value and you won't be able to see through the skin. This is all normal and as it should be. In fact, the video (see below) that you posted when you visited De Lorenzo/Robbinsville does a reasonably good job of showing how a skin with good extensibility and elasticity behaves. Photos that we have seen before also show this phenomenon, including the photo at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3217_JPG.htm and the photo at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3228_JPG.htm .

While on the matter of thickness factor, I should mention that earlier today I made two more clone De Lorenzo/Robbinsville test doughs to test different thickness factors. I felt that I had run out of ideas for further test doughs based on hydration values and oil quantities. So, at this juncture, I wanted to test the effects of lower and higher thickness factors than we have been testing to date. If there is anything of value to come out of those test dough balls, I will report them in this thread. At one time I speculated that the bowls might have contained either cornmeal or semolina. However, looking at a photo such as shown at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3159_JPG.htm, whatever it is in the dough boxes is yellow and not of the same color as what is shown in the bowl on the counter. I believe that the bowls on the counter, both small and large, contain flour. You will also see in the video referenced above that whatever is in the bowl next to the worker is used to dust the dough balls, both as dough balls and as skins. It wouldn't seem to make a great deal of sense to use cornmeal or semolina for those purposes. If I had to guess, the small bowl of flour is used for small dough balls, and the larger bowl is used for the larger dough balls. However, there is no reason why the large bowl can't be used for both sizes of dough balls. A photo that does a nice job of showing both size bowls is this one: http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/images/dtp-shoot08-untouched/pages/100_3174_JPG.htm. If I had to guess, it might have been the lighting that made the flour in the photo you referenced look more yellow.

I don't think I recall you posting before (what you just posted to Stuart) that when you stretched your skins to beyond 14” that the elasticity kicked in and the skins shrunk back as you put them onto your wooden peel. I never tried to stretch any of my skins past 14” since I have tried to make a De Lorenzo pizza so I never saw that phenomenon happen.

I know we are used to thinking of the TF from the standpoint of the desired final size. I think I learned something new from your posts.

Thanks for the links to those photos to show it does look like just flour is used in both size bowls.

I don't think I recall you posting before (what you just posted to Stuart) that when you stretched your skins to beyond 14” that the elasticity kicked in and the skins shrunk back as you put them onto your wooden peel. I never tried to stretch any of my skins past 14” since I have tried to make a De Lorenzo pizza so I never saw that phenomenon happen.

I can't quite make out the markings of your tape measure but I experienced something similar with one of the two test balls that I made yesterday. The smaller (9.5 ounces) of the two test dough balls appears to have increased in volume by about 67.6% after about 24 hours. That is in line with my previous test dough balls using a small amount of yeast (0.12% IDY). On the other hand, the larger dough ball (11 ounces) does not appear to have increased as much--about 42%. It turned cool here last night, getting down into the 60s, but that temperature should have affected both dough balls equally in my refrigerator.

I plan to let the smaller test dough ball temper at room temperature to see how it performs. I will most likely let the larger dough ball ferment for another day.

All of my recent tests with De Lorenzo clone test dough balls have gotten me to thinking about when De Lorenzo/Hudson made its dough balls and when De Lorenzo/Robbinsville now makes its dough balls. All that I had read was that both locations made their dough daily. And the only two places I saw Gary making the dough balls (in a photo and a video), Gary was in a lighted room without windows and no clock on the wall. So, I couldn't tell the time of day. As I have mentioned before, whatever dough is used by a business, it must accommodate the business hours of operation of the business. In the case of De Lorenzo/Hudson, toward the end of its tenure it was open only on Wednesdays through Sundays, from 4PM to 9PM. With those hours, the dough could have been made in the morning or in the early afternoon. Both of those scenarios would have given the dough balls over a day of cold fermentation. It occurred to me that the dough could have also been made in the evening after final service but that would have meant making the dough balls for next day use late at night. An advantage of this option is that it would have been possible to use unused dough as scrap for the next day's dough balls. But, either way, the final dough balls would have had less than a day of cold fermentation before using, although the scrap, if used, could have made up for part of that shortfall.

With respect to De Lorenzo/Robbinsville, they are open for lunch on Tuesday through Friday, from 11AM to 2PM, and they are open for dinner on Tuesday through Sunday, from 4PM to 10PM. That would suggest the possibility that the dough balls are made in the morning so that all of the dough balls, for both lunch and dinner, get at least a full day of cold fermentation. In this scenario, the dough balls used for dinner would have more fermentation than those used at lunch. Another possibility would be to make multiple dough batches, one for lunch and another for dinner. For example, the dough balls for lunch the next day could be made in the morning (the day before), and the dough balls for dinner the next day could be made in the period between lunch and dinner (the day before). Making the dough balls late at night, after 10PM, would not seem to be the best approach, both timewise and from the standpoint of the duration of fermentation.

Maybe Stuart or some other member familiar with the two De Lorenzo operations can shed some light on this matter.

I can't quite make out the markings of your tape measure but I experienced something similar with one of the two test balls that I made yesterday. The smaller (9.5 ounces) of the two test dough balls appears to have increased in volume by about 67.6% after about 24 hours. That is in line with my previous test dough balls using a small amount of yeast (0.12% IDY). On the other hand, the larger dough ball (11 ounces) does not appear to have increased as much--about 42%. It turned cool here last night, getting down into the 60s, but that temperature should have affected both dough balls equally in my refrigerator.

I plan to let the smaller test dough ball temper at room temperature to see how it performs. I will most likely let the larger dough ball ferment for another day.

All of my recent tests with De Lorenzo clone test dough balls have gotten me to thinking about when De Lorenzo/Hudson made its dough balls and when De Lorenzo/Robbinsville now makes its dough balls. All that I had read was that both locations made their dough daily. And the only two places I saw Gary making the dough balls (in a photo and a video), Gary was in a lighted room without windows and no clock on the wall. So, I couldn't tell the time of day. As I have mentioned before, whatever dough is used by a business, it must accommodate the business hours of operation of the business. In the case of De Lorenzo/Hudson, toward the end of its tenure it was open only on Wednesdays through Sundays, from 4PM to 9PM. With those hours, the dough could have been made in the morning or in the early afternoon. Both of those scenarios would have given the dough balls over a day of cold fermentation. It occurred to me that the dough could have also been made in the evening after final service but that would have meant making the dough balls for next day use late at night. An advantage of this option is that it would have been possible to use unused dough as scrap for the next day's dough balls. But, either way, the final dough balls would have had less than a day of cold fermentation before using, although the scrap, if used, could have made up for part of that shortfall.

With respect to De Lorenzo/Robbinsville, they are open for lunch on Tuesday through Friday, from 11AM to 2PM, and they are open for dinner on Tuesday through Sunday, from 4PM to 10PM. That would suggest the possibility that the dough balls are made in the morning so that all of the dough balls, for both lunch and dinner, get at least a full day of cold fermentation. In this scenario, the dough balls used for dinner would have more fermentation than those used at lunch. Another possibility would be to make multiple dough batches, one for lunch and another for dinner. For example, the dough balls for lunch the next day could be made in the morning (the day before), and the dough balls for dinner the next day could be made in the period between lunch and dinner (the day before). Making the dough balls late at night, after 10PM, would not seem to be the best approach, both timewise and from the standpoint of the duration of fermentation.

Maybe Stuart or some other member familiar with the two De Lorenzo operations can shed some light on this matter.

Peter

Peter,

That metal measuring device did not show up well in the photo I posted, but it was less than 1 ¼ “ between the poppy seed spacings. The next marking line up in the photo was 1 ½ “.

Interesting that you experienced something similar in one of your dough balls. Good to hear you are finally getting some relief from the heat in your state.

Interesting to hear your thoughts about how you think De Lorenzo might be making their dough balls in the past and present.

My dough ball from the # 6 De Lorenzo clone dough formulation did ferment to about 1 ½” between the poppy seed spacing, but then it was in warmer temperatures for about 2 hrs or a little longer.

As I posted on my BS thread I did forget to add extra cheese after the pizza was taken out of the BS before the second bake. My bake time was 9 minutes in the BS at about 635 degrees F. The bottom was crispy and crunchy, but not enough.

The dough ball did open decently in a skin when pressed and stretched over Steve's marble on his table, but my dough was not as elastic or balanced enough. I even developed a small tear in the skin when gently trying to stretch it.

I am beginning to wonder if I ever will be able to make this type of pizza right.

These are just a few of the photos, because I posted the rest over at my BS thread.

Your dough based on De Lorenzo #6 performed as it should have. One of the things that I discovered is that even when a dough ball does not appear to have risen enough during the period of cold fermentation, it will rise fairly quickly during the temper period at room temperature. Unless there was some other factor that might have been the source of a problem, that means that one should not panic when the dough looks and acts lethargic.

Yesterday, I decided to open up both De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone test doughs. Those are the test dough balls where I was testing two different thickness factors, one less than the 0.065 thickness factor that we have been playing around with and one more than the 0.065 thickness factor. I had designed these test dough balls to last for 1-2 days of cold fermentation but be usable even after one day. The one day dough would play into my thinking that De Lorenzo/Hudson made one-day doughs and that De Lorenzo/Robbinsville may be doing the same. One-day doughs, with maybe a small number of dough balls going out a day or so longer, would have made sense at De Lorenzo/Hudson because that operation might have had little space to devote to cooler capacity. As you might recall, one report said that De Lorenzo/Hudson made about 200 pizzas a day. De Lorenzo/Robbinsville must be doing a greater volume than that but most likely designed enough space for coolers to handle their volume.

I will be reporting later today on the results of my two latest test doughs. The results were quite revealing and instructive.

Your dough based on De Lorenzo #6 performed as it should have. One of the things that I discovered is that even when a dough ball does not appear to have risen enough during the period of cold fermentation, it will rise fairly quickly during the temper period at room temperature. Unless there was some other factor that might have been the source of a problem, that means that one should not panic when the dough looks and acts lethargic.

Yesterday, I decided to open up both De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone test doughs. Those are the test dough balls where I was testing two different thickness factors, one less than the 0.065 thickness factor that we have been playing around with and one more than the 0.065 thickness factor. I had designed these test dough balls to last for 1-2 days of cold fermentation but be usable even after one day. The one day dough would play into my thinking that De Lorenzo/Hudson made one-day doughs and that De Lorenzo/Robbinsville may be doing the same. One-day doughs, with maybe a small number of dough balls going out a day or so longer, would have made sense at De Lorenzo/Hudson because that operation might have had little space to devote to cooler capacity. As you might recall, one report said that De Lorenzo/Hudson made about 200 pizzas a day. De Lorenzo/Robbinsville must be doing a greater volume than that but most likely designed enough space for coolers to handle their volume.

I will be reporting later today on the results of my two latest test doughs. The results were quite revealing and instructive.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me that the De Lorenzo #6 dough ball preformed as it should have. I know when a dough ball is left out at warmer room temperatures that dough balls can rise fairly quickly. Why do you think my dough ball didn't have the right amount of elasticity and extensibility? I did follow you mixing method, mix times, rest period and letting the lid off in the fridge for the recommended amount of time. My skin did not retract at all when placed onto the wooden peel and sure didn't look like De Lorenzo's skins. This is one photo I did not post of the skin and where I repaired it.

I can understand why the one day dough would play into your thinking that De Lorenzo/Hudson made one-day doughs and that De Lorenzo/Robbinsville may be doing the same. I do recall that the one report said that De Lornezo/Hudson made about 200 pizzas a day. I could not see the kitchen are at De Lorenzo/Robbinsville when I was there, so I have no idea how big it is or how much space they have in their coolers.

I will await your report later today on the results of your two latest test dough. Sounds interesting.

I had to add something about when I went to the doctors the other day that I thought was amusing. My family doctor I had for a long while retired at the end of September and I dreaded trying to pick a new doctor from the same medical group because there are so many doctors there. I was just given a doctor because I don't have a regular one right now. I think the new doctor they gave me fits me just about right. I told him how I felt and when I had started feeling bad after market on Tuesday. He asked me what I did for a living and I told him about making pizzas at market. I had to laugh when the doctor told me he had purchased some kind of pizza oven for about 600.00 and some dollars and he can't even get his pizzas off the peel into his oven right. I told him about the BS and this forum. He said he has to check out the forum. He thought I might have pulled something from lifting things that are so heavy, or from twisting and turning so much on a Tuesday. I then asked him why I had a fever if I just pulled something. He then ran blood tests on my blood to see if I needed antibiotics and called back later in the evening on Friday. He said my white blood count was elevated some, but not a lot. He said all the other tests on my liver and kidneys came back good so he was not going to give me antibiotics. I pushed myself to go to clean at market Friday and after coming home my fever broke. The doctor told me to take it easy for the next couple of days and not to eat heavily. I told him he doesn't really know me and I had planned to go the to pizza party the next day and was not letting any thing stop me from doing that since my fever broke. We also talked about pizzas more. I think I found a new doctor quickly since we have one of the same interests. It is amazing what pizza can do in more ways than one.

Norma: I am sorry to hear you have been a bit under the weather. Take good care of yourself. Cool connection with your doctor! My doctor loves our pizza and orders some for his monthly poker game with his buddies. Maybe you will never nail this pie formula exact but I am sure you are learning lots about dough and can apply it to your own pies. Walter

Norma: I am sorry to hear you have been a bit under the weather. Take good care of yourself. Cool connection with your doctor! My doctor loves our pizza and orders some for his monthly poker game with his buddies. Maybe you will never nail this pie formula exact but I am sure you are learning lots about dough and can apply it to your own pies. Walter

Walter,

Thanks! When you get older you never know what can happen, but what I had was not bad. Great to hear your doctor loves your pizzas and orders some for his monthly poker game with his buddies. I know I might never nail this pie exactly, but I am learning a lot. I can always try to apply what I have learned for my pizzas.

This is an article from a blogger about doing a cover shoot and other photos May 7, 2013 with Sam Amico at De Lorenzo/Robbinsville. http://www.mcneill-group.com/blog They sure seem to go through a lot of work to be able to take really good photos.