Look 1.he said you are an incomplete being aswell not "you are half demon ASWELL"
2.Are you thick or something? OF COURSE! she MUST have been talking about arkham because before that she was talking aboute dante so its only right that she switches topic mid-sentence.. or you are just plain stupid

"There are --->humans<--- in this universe as evil as any demon" Or something to that effect I don't remember and I am not digging out the game to find out but it is there. That specifically refers to Arkham as he is the only other human in the game besides her.

To me Arkham is Arius advanced. An extremely powerful human that blurs the lines between the two but it still very much human. Able to save himself from Virgil, turn into Jester, and later turn to the uber blob but in the end a few bullets to face ended it all for example.

"Also, arkham does admit to vergil to being part demon, when he is stabbed. what about this" What about you? You're and incomplete being ~~~~AS WELL~~~~~" in other words, as well as himself."

This means he is incomplete in his quest for power. Arkham recognizes that Virgil does not enjoy being a halfling. This is nothing more than a taunt before he fakes his "death". Arkham is a failed experiment at becoming a devil....he is not ANY percentage of devil and he admits to being human. Did you even look at the cutscenes I provided the links to??

Another thing, Lady is talking about Dante....where did you get any other idea that she wasn't from??

"Look 1.he said you are an incomplete being aswell not "you are half demon ASWELL"
2.Are you thick or something? OF COURSE! she MUST have been talking about arkham because before that she was talking aboute dante so its only right that she switches topic mid-sentence.. or you are just plain stupid"

Once again blackshadow, it's seems you have to go about calling me stupid and go being all sarcastic. Can you not say it in a civilised way blackshadow.

Unlike most of you here, I actually saw the cutscenes and then double checked it in the script. Vergil clearly says that Arkham at first used his black arts to try to be like a demon, but he wasn't able to at first so he sacrified his wife and then "became a demon as well". This is implication by Vergil that through the ritual, he became part demon as well.

I don't know why you guys are in denial, especially Black-Shadow666 even denies the quote, it is in the script. Go on www.gamefaqs.com, type in DMC3, scroll down to Game Script if you are too lazy to put in the game yourself. Even if Arkham ever says he is human and nothing more (don't remember him saying that), it was all during his clever ruse to deceieve Lady and Vergil.

Dahbomb did you even consider clicking on the links and looking at the proof? In mission 13 Arkham says "Virgil you have lost because you underestimated humans." Implying that HE HIMSELF is a human. Because he is the only one that was in the current situation of winning. And I've already explained what Arkham was implying when he spoke to Virgil before his "death" and to what Virgil meant when he spoke to him. I've double and triple checked this to make sure it is right....yet, you refuse to see another view. Which is ok, that is your choice....however, this is the last post I'm going to make regarding this subject. I've already stated my side of this stalemate battle.

Edit Dexter:

If he was part demon why would he tell Virgil who is both human/demon that he lost because he underestimated HUMANS...not halflings. That means full-blooded humans....with NO percent of Demon whatsoever. Whenever Sparda cealed his power in the demon world. He was still Demon....he became more like Dante/Virgil that is it.

Edit: thee is no way arkham could have just stopped vergils sword like that if he wasn't demon. it would have chopped his hands off. He would also not have been able to knock vergil across the whole lenght of the room like that.

mpj...did you play the game? Arkham clearly states that Virgil and Dante are weakened...therefore Virgil was not as fast and as strong as he normally is. That is why he is able to pull off what he did against them. That is why he can block the sword and that is why he could make a fool outta Dante. Arkham was smart...he knew that a Human had no chance against a halfling...so he made sure he weakened them before he made his move. And another thing, are you familiar with games and movies...they pull stuff of that is not realistically possible just to make a point and to look cool...nothing further. Thats it for me...

if someone is weakened, that does not make them light as a feather. When someone is weakened, do you suddenly have the power to push people across huge rooms like that, or to stop swords with your hands and come out unschathed?

First of all, I have seen Mission#13 like 20 times already (in my own PS2, no need to check out the link). Secondly, you are completely misinterpreting the quote. When Arkham said "you underestimated humans" he was not talking about himself, but the spell that was about to be casted. Vergil did not yet make the connection that he needed the blood of a human to make the spell work. Why do you think he turns to Lady right after that? Vergil "lost" because if he had known this fact about "humans", he would've had the power of Sparda now and won. Vergil has lost the ability to gain Sparda's power, thanks to his underestimation of human's role in gaining the devil's power.

Vergil: Damn you!

Jester: You have lost...

Arkham: Because you've underestimated humans.

Lady: What's going on?

Arkham: Good girl. Pure and Innocent... just like your mother.

Lady: You bastard!

Jester: It's time for your spanking, my dear!

You want to know why the spell didn't
break, hmm Vergil?
You have two amulets, and Sparda's
blood. You've got everything you
needed to unleash the evil...

Okay....well I guess Lady is half demon also right?? Because she fights demons and blows up a rocket launcher which sends her flying in the air but she still lands perfectly on the ground no scratch. Which a normal human that height would've broken their leg...but she's a demon. And she must also be a demon because she survived a fight with Dante who is also a Half Demon.. and she must also be a demon because she block Virgil Yamato with her rocket launcher super fast. And we know Virgil is a swift and fast human/demon who is super fast and when he runs across somebody and they block it...that person must be a demon. In other words....Lady is not a demon...Arkham is not a demon. They are weakened and Arkham happens to be in the Black Arts which gives him access to more abilities. jeez....ok...I know I said the previous posts were my last...but this one is my last one....

Edit:

You are looking more into that than what it is. Virgil has been outsmarted by a human being this is what Arkham means by it. That line has little to deal with what he says next. He means Virgil has lost because he has underestimated the capabilities of what a normal human could do, that human being himself. Nothing more than that....then he went on to deal with Lady. Another thing to note....if Arkham was any part Demon. A shot to the head from a bullet would not have phased him. Dante a "half demon" is shot in the head and then the mouth by Lady and survives. Arkham gets shot in the head and is killed. Hmmm....if he was any part demon he would've survived that. Lady mentions that there are HUMANS meaning Arkham that are as evil as any demon....and Demons that have good in them, meaning Dante. Why would she say this if it didn't have anything to deal with Arkham? She was summarizing the whole game for you in a basket.

Yeah...professional gymnast survive blowing up rockets point blank without a scratch. I've never seen one do that. And I'm not saying that she is a demon....I am proving that you say Arkham is a demon because he block Virgils sword with his hand....then Lady must be a demon just because she can do similar superhuman feats. But they both are not...they are both human. Do you watch movies....they are human in movies obviously and they pull feats like that all the time....especially Japanese movies...which this game happens to be from Japan.

I didn't see anything inhuman about Lady's action, except for being an excellent gymnastic. What Arkham did was completely super natural (aside from Teleporting, and changing disguises, along with turning into a giant purple demonic blob).

It is safe to assume that Lady is closer to being a human than Arkham is.

To clarify
Vergil is (techically) evil in DMC3, as any guesses at his motives or rational explanations for his evil doing, being for the good of anyone but himself are just guesses and he has at no point expressed any remorse for his actions or hesititation for that matter. He has shown himself to be consumed by his need for more power and willing to go to any lengths to get it. Including unleashing hell and killing his own brother (yes, I beleive he would have killed Dante for his amulet) But is obviously very intelligent, likely moreso than Dante.

Arkham is likely part demon or imbued with demonic abilities, (maybe from the ritual killing of his wife) he likely used black magic to disgiuse himself as Jester but he is definitely not completely human anymore. He sold part of his humanity for more power. But since it was the wife kiling that played a part, Lady was conceived when he was 100% human. Besides I am not sure Arkhams brand of demon side can be hereditary, he worked hard to get it.

Lady is entirely human, just a skiled gymnast. It was a gymnast that did the mo cap for her.

Well, I kind of know adding my two cents in this discussion is worthless, but I'm going to state my opinion anyway.

I believe that Arkham was human and just like Vergil said, "To further your study of the black arts, you sacrificed your
loving wife, to become a devil as well."

To "become" a demon, therefore implying that Arkham was not one before. So there for, I believe Lady is 100% human. Yeah, she has some pretty slick moves for a human, but if she was part demon she wouldn't have had to bandage her leg after Jester/Arkham stabbed her.

What Dexter said is true, I hope the argument can stop there (but he forgot to add that Vergil's ulterior motives are never discussed, like what he plans to do after gaining power). Good clarification right there.

Whoah there, Arkham was human. Have we gone so far into fantasy people are claiming he was always a demon? Wrong. Arkham started human but striving for more power through the demonic arts, he sold some of his humanity becoming either part demon or imbued by demonic power, but he was still human at that point. Simply "corrupted" I suppose. The scar like thing on his face was probably a mark received when he gained the demon side.

No. More like he was human but was trying to achieve the full power of a demon. But like Dante and Vergil, Arkham can never attain 100% power of a demon unless he was born as a pure demon... Does that make sense?

I still think Arkham is a human with extraordinary powers (black magic) but I suppose I will wait to see if the English translation of the manga sheds any light on just what he is. He plays a roll in Code: 1 but I suspect he has more of a presence in Code: 2 and especially 3.

"I still think Arkham is a human with extraordinary powers (black magic) but I suppose I will wait to see if the English translation of the manga sheds any light on just what he is. He plays a roll in Code: 1 but I suspect he has more of a presence in Code: 2 and especially 3."

That's a good way of looking at him too.

Yeah, the manga looks awesome, but I'm probably going to wait until Christmas to get it.

Do you know if the manga is going to follow the EXACT same story, or is it going to have different situations and what not happening?

The mangas are prequels to DMC3. So you will get a bit of backstory and events to what lead up to DMC3. I have the Japanese version (compulsive collector) but I am waiting for the English one to come in October.

What Dexter said is true, I hope the argument can stop there (but he forgot to add that Vergil's ulterior motives are never discussed, like what he plans to do after gaining power). Good clarification right there.

Click to expand...

you all think this is an argument??????

have you all never had a proper debate?? they can last a long time y'know

"Wheres your motivation??"

Tats is knows Lady is human....he is just being sarcastic that people think her actions are normal gymnastics.....yet saying arkham stopping blades & walkingon ceilings are not

Lady-No lady in hell can survive what she has done (it's a game....it ewould be boring if she sat there picking each one off with a sniper rifle)

Arkham totally stated- "you would have chopped me in to confetti now if you was in tip-top conditionnnn!"

Pokey86posted on 8/22/05 4:59pm you all think this is an argument??????

have you all never had a proper debate?? they can last a long time y'know
[hr][/blockquote] This is certainly not a proper debate. No primary arguments have been signposted, no terms have been defined, there is no mediator, there is no post length limit etc.

This certainly isn't an argument all inflammatory remarks were put down rather quickly. A proper debate maybe not. But more of a debate that an argument for all intents and purposes. Although it would seem most here like to get all hot and bothered over simple conflicting opinions a game about which I find odd. I suppose the only way this can be conclusively solved is through the manga but given how people interpret the same bits of text I doubt even that much.

If not an argument then a heated discusion. There was some name calling in the confusion earlier.

As for what Vergil wanted the power for, When he started I beleive he was seeking to become powerful so he could have control, he could protect himself and what he cares about. It was a reaction to his mothers death. He couldn't stop it happening and he couldn't protect her. He was too weak, and from that he learned only the strong and the powerful survive. "without power you can protect nothing, let alone yourself"

But I also beleive that got lost somewhere along the way. When Dante challenged him on the subject, "what will you do with all that power huh?" Vergil had no answer, just his burning obsession to be more powerful. I don't know what Vergil would have done with all his power or if he even knew. We could speculate, Perhaps it would have corrupted him, perhaps he would not be satisfied and continue his search. But thats neither here nor there.

Vergil's basic character type is a lot like your typical samurai. He's proud, he's a very able swordfighter, and he appreciates the art of swordfighting for its own sake. He's not without honour, and his whole demeanour is calculating and precise. He's as efficient and effective with words and actions as he is in fighting. He doesn't waste time on silly taunts, he says what he means and backs up his threats whenever push comes to shove.

2. Fighting Style.

Vergil's whole fighting style seems to be based around lightning speed and efficient, effective strikes - look at the way he disposes of Beowulf, or how he seems to be able to move faster than the eye can follow in several other cutscenes. He's amazingly agile, doing things like jumping leaping to the top of that pillar after cutting off Arkham's pseudopod (pseudochire?). And that appeals to me. In ever video game I've ever played, I've picked or customised my character to increase speed and agility.

3. Intelligence.

Being mad enough to try to resurrect the demon world doesn't detract from Vergil's obvious intelligence. That's a fault in motivation and desire, not in reasoning ability. He's a much calmer, more rational character than Dante, reflected in his words, actions and fighting style. I'm not saying Dante isn't just as intelligent, but Vergil certainly isn't unintelligent.

4. Ambition.

Vergil is driven, there's no doubt about that. He knows what he wants, he finds out how to get it, and then he does whatever's necessary. And I can't help but be impressed by that stubborn, unrelenting determination. Dante's happy to drift through life seeing what happens, whereas Vergil knows exactly what he wants out of life, and grabs it by the reins - by the neck, even - and heaven help anything that gets in his way.

5. Vergil is flawed.

Flawed characters are interesting. I've never cared much for the typical heroic characters you see so much of.. the incorruptible good guy who'll always do what's right in the end. Where's the tension, the angst? No, the flawed characters, whether they be good or bad, are always more intriguing. More realistic, even - more human because of the mistakes they make. Vergil's fatal flaw, of course, is his pride. The classic hubris that proves his undoing. But it's interesting to wonder why Vergil is the way he is.. which brings me to another important point:

6. Vergil is not evil.

Evil is a naive word - real people are not "evil". They have reasons and motivations for what they do, no matter how twisted.. they are never simply "evil". Evil characters are plot devices, not people. Arkham was evil. Arkham was a one-dimensional "bad guy" character that nobody cares about. Vergil had reasons for doing what he did - and the fact that reasons are hinted at, but never explained, makes the character all the more interesting. Far more interesting than Dante's relatively transparent character, in any case. Anyone remeber this thread? Does anyone honestly think we could ever have such a lengthy discussion about Dante and his true motivations?

7. Physical appearance.

Last, and by all means least, Vergil looks cool. Not necessarily always cooler than Dante, but cool in his own right. In my opinion, his hairstyle suits their facial features far, far better than Dante's in DMC3. And he has a cool trenchcoat. And Yamatou. And pretty blue eyes