timoose Wrote:Could you expand on the leniency in the Church toward sexual sins ?

I too would be interested in learning more on this point.

Accepting bastard sons of nobilities. allowing prostitutes in Catholic countries, allowing nudity in public beaches, in Dante's Inferno the lovers (adulterers) are almost at the edge of the hell, floating in air, only homosexuals are down in the 6th level sinning against the nature.

(07-22-2010, 02:36 PM)jacobhalo Wrote: Most of the Catholics polled are probably not practicing Catholics. They were baptized Catholics but that's about it. I wish those who disagree with church teachings would leave the church so we can have a smaller church but a believing fold of sheep.

(07-22-2010, 02:36 PM)jacobhalo Wrote: Most of the Catholics polled are probably not practicing Catholics. They were baptized Catholics but that's about it. I wish those who disagree with church teachings would leave the church so we can have a smaller church but a believing fold of sheep.

But before the Council most of those who called themselves Catholic actually acted and believed accordingly. The majority of those born Catholic stayed Catholic and took the Church seriously. That is not so now, obviously.

We are not Protestants. The Church does not simply cease to be wherever bad Catholics congregate. Dissenting Catholics are still members of the Church which contains both wheat and chaff. The post-Conciliar Church has, in many ways, presented a religion which gives no real challenge to modern and secular thought and thus many people do not see the value in Catholicism (and rightfully so, given the fluffy heresy that's been taught). The Truth speaks to the human soul which recognizes it for what it is via faith and reason. If you do not present the Truth then people will naturally gravitate toward what is easiest or most affirmative of their subconsciously selfish, lazy, and biased personal thoughts and desires. Why listen to a Church that is just another "faith community"? If the Mass is just about community and feeling the grace given to you by God then why wouldn't you jump ship over to the Pentecostal church down the street? After all, that service speaks to me more than the Catholic one. Or why bother with church at all? If God is really just a nice guy up there who doesn't really care what you do as long as you're happy then why not just sleep in on Sunday mornings and say a few prayers with the family before American Idol comes on? Why burden yourself with babies that you don't want? Et cetera. Et cetera.

The point is that all of this didn't magically happen one day. It's not as if this apostasy is without cause. The Faith has been compromised in so many places and this is the logical outcome.

You are correct about the beliefs of the people pre-vat II. I'm 63 yrs. old and remember about a 90% attendance at mass on Sunday. In those days most Catholics were practicing Catholics. When they poll Catholics today, maybe 25%-30% are practicing Catholics. The pollsters first question should be, "Are you a practicing Catholic?"