Not a bad idea. Flat boost level across the board or what? Can a controller set up a curve?

For now a flat curve. With an electronic boost controller we'll able to shape our own. At this point the plan is to just tune this thing on wastegate pressure and let Dan enjoy the car. He hasn't driven it since November so I'm sure he's ready too. The limiting factory now is the trans more than anything. What we've talked about is getting the Vargas fuel system upgrade and tuning for 100% e85 on 1 bar and see what happens.

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We aren't interested in committing to any tuner. All it does is stir up drama, and condescending posts. No offense T, but it just creates issues in the community since everybody is so hostile. Terry, Shiv, and Dzenno have all reached out to help in the project, and this is all greatly appreciated. The main issue here is lack of user adjustability. Letting one of you guys tune it means we have very little control over anything. Dan is a tinkerer, and has certain goals. Making changes on the fly is a must. If letting the dme control everything except boost doesn't work we'll obviously revisit our options. But as of now we are going to try. I bet it would benefit the community greatly to see if it works. In the end the goal is to have fun, and enjoy cars. Not be part of a war. And saying it can't be done, well that's just motivation to try harder, so I appreciate the support

We aren't interested in committing to any tuner. All it does is stir up drama, and condescending posts. No offense T, but it just creates issues in the community since everybody is so hostile. Terry, Shiv, and Dzenno have all reached out to help in the project, and this is all greatly appreciated. The main issue here is lack of user adjustability. Letting one of you guys tune it means we have very little control over anything. Dan is a tinkerer, and has certain goals. Making changes on the fly is a must. If letting the dme control everything except boost doesn't work we'll obviously revisit our options. But as of now we are going to try. I bet it would benefit the community greatly to see if it works. In the end the goal is to have fun, and enjoy cars. Not be part of a war. And saying it can't be done, well that's just motivation to try harder, so I appreciate the support

No offense taken. Dan had previously told me he was going to ship the car out so we could develop JB4 single turbo boost control for it. Which I was happy to do for him as he's been with us a long time. Nothing to do with your kit or being your tuner. Just tuning Dan's car. The plan was to use a version of our back end flash for fueling, timing, and VANOS, and then the JB4 for boost and throttle control. The first part is easy. Second part is difficult. Especially so with an automatic. Both the flash and the JB4 mapping would be open for anyone who wanted to make changes. As I told Dan I'd have to have the car in front of me for a period of time to even attempt the boost control on it. Not the sort of thing I would want to work on remotely. So if he is in a hurry to get it running then this would not work for him anyway.

There are some options for trying to tune it without a JB4 or a procede but they are not very desirable. Normally I'm not one to go around $#@!-caning people's ideas. But, I do design control systems for the N54. So it's something I've given a bit of thought. The easiest option really would just be to have Shiv do the piggyback tuning as he has it mostly working already via the procede. Then do the flash side yourself. If he has offered I would take him up on it at least to get the kit running. But, working with Shiv is a bit like doing business with the devil. There is always a price to be paid at some point.

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

No offense taken. Dan had previously told me he was going to ship the car out so we could develop JB4 single turbo boost control for it. Which I was happy to do for him as he's been with us a long time. Nothing to do with your kit or being your tuner. Just tuning Dan's car. The plan was to use a version of our back end flash for fueling, timing, and VANOS, and then the JB4 for boost and throttle control. The first part is easy. Second part is difficult. Especially so with an automatic. Both the flash and the JB4 mapping would be open for anyone who wanted to make changes. As I told Dan I'd have to have the car in front of me for a period of time to even attempt the boost control on it. Not the sort of thing I would want to work on remotely. So if he is in a hurry to get it running then this would not work for him anyway.

There are some options for trying to tune it without a JB4 or a procede but they are not very desirable. Normally I'm not one to go around $#@!-caning people's ideas. But, I do design control systems for the N54. So it's something I've given a bit of thought. The easiest option really would just be to have Shiv do the piggyback tuning as he has it mostly working already via the procede. Then do the flash side yourself. If he has offered I would take him up on it at least to get the kit running. But, working with Shiv is a bit like doing business with the devil. There is always a price to be paid at some point.

The car still could end up at your place as that was the original plan. But first we want to try something's. If all else fails I think we'll run the car like eleventeen is and in that case we would use the bms flash. Don't worry you'll be the first to know if it doesn't work. I think trying to push the car on the stock auto is kind of a waste of time. Hopefully the alpina flash buys the tranny some time.

The car still could end up at your place as that was the original plan. But first we want to try something's. If all else fails I think we'll run the car like eleventeen is and in that case we would use the bms flash. Don't worry you'll be the first to know if it doesn't work. I think trying to push the car on the stock auto is kind of a waste of time. Hopefully the alpina flash buys the tranny some time.

drop VB ship to level 10, that would buy a bit more time as well.

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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

The car still could end up at your place as that was the original plan. But first we want to try something's. If all else fails I think we'll run the car like eleventeen is and in that case we would use the bms flash. Don't worry you'll be the first to know if it doesn't work. I think trying to push the car on the stock auto is kind of a waste of time. Hopefully the alpina flash buys the tranny some time.

If you tell me what you are planning I'll tell you whether or not it will work. The best option I could come up with for tuning a single with a stand alone boost controller was to basically allow the DME to operate in a perpetual state of 30FE/3100 over boost limp mode. You'd do this by setting the load targets to basically zero. You'd also need to zero out the throttle tables so it can't close the throttle when boost goes over that target. Since the DME is not controlling boost you'd continue to target whatever boost you have the EBC set to, the DME mapping *should* all function normally, and you'll just have to ignore the Christmas tree dash. The trade off other than all the codes in dash is you loose throttle control. That throttle control is pretty huge for controlling boost especially with automatics but maybe if boost is low enough like 12psi you can get away with it for awhile. You're just going to get big shift spikes. There are also unknown variables like how the trans will react to actual torque being over target torque. It may also limp out. The DME may decide to fight it by dropping advance negative also. A variation on this might be to set the load targets all higher than or close to target and instead have a perpetual 30FF/3100 code state. But remember when 3100 triggers target drops to 0 anyway. So I think its best to have it always in 3100. Maybe a third option is just to leave some unimportant sensor unplugged so it can never come out of 3100 mode for consistency. Any way you handle it you'll have an ugly but drivable setup.

If you want to do it without the JB4 running boost but still using a JB4, it's going to be a lot cleaner. Just not ideal compared to the JB4 running boost. In this scnerio you do the flash tuning with close to realistic load targets. Do the timing, fuel, and VANOS tuning via the flash. Then you throw the JB4 in the mix and set map 6 to your EBC boost target + 1/2 psi. Say 16.5psi across the board. Then you set the EBC to say 16psi. No lights in dash, everything runs/operates normally. But the EBC is controlling boost. If boost goes over 16.5psi the JB4 will then also proportionally closes the throttle for you. The trade off here is a stand alone EBC can't control boost as well as a fully integrated system like the JB4 can (provided we were to write that code for it), but at least you will have some throttle safety, gauges in dash, no codes, and avoid all the DME and torque management related issues. A couple other guys are running in this configuration currently waiting for us to write the JB4 single turbo boost control code.

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

What's wrong with mapping the flash based on turbo spool... of course this changes with conditions, gear, etc, but potentially the variances won't be enough to throw a code. This way piggy works as it always has, except for working with an EBC now.

What's wrong with mapping the flash based on turbo spool... of course this changes with conditions, gear, etc, but potentially the variances won't be enough to throw a code. This way piggy works as it always has, except for working with an EBC now.

If you leave a piggy in place its workable. It's being done now. But with the piggyback not controlling boost throttle management and overall boost control suffer. It's probably fine at 12psi because who cares if it spikes to 16psi for a moment or if the throttle over compensates because it's not directly in the loop but if you are trying to run 28psi that is another story all together. Automatic shifting is a big part of the boost control routine. As I said above there are a few non-ideal options but the best option is an integrated piggyback running point / fine tuning with a back end flash for base fuel, timing, and VANOS. Running a piggy as I described above is also workable. Running without a piggy is going to be ugly unless Cobb steps up and reworks a bunch of code. The problem with the ideal option is the JB4 code to run that way doesn't exist yet and won't exist until I get a local single turbo car for a week or two. So the only currently available option is Shiv and I'm not entirely sure he has all his bugs worked out or would want to support a non-FFTEC single turbo project. Realistically a JB4 or procede is not going to cost much more than a good EBC anyway and will be easier to install with better functionality so it will likely go that route eventually whether they want to or not. It's just a matter of the code being written. And as they pointed out until the auto trans are built up its a bit moot anyway.

Typing all that has be thinking, what is happening with part throttle boost transitions on these big singles? Has anyone with a single turbo kit posted any part throttle step logs?

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Ok, I wasnít thinking of part throttle (<WG default pressure)Ö maybe you could use a very low pressure WG <10psi and have less dependence on throttle plate
And
-Flash / piggy work as they have
-Piggy controls DC bleed of pressure to WG, which I assume is DC of EBC although I have never used one.
-Piggy frequency out / WG tables would have to be altered to work with new boost control setup.

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