Lord, Kathryn

ORAL HISTORY OF KATHRYN H. LORD
Interviewed and filmed by Keith McDaniel
March 17, 2011
Mr. McDaniel: This is Keith McDaniel. Today is March 17th, 2011 and I am at the home of Dick and Kay Lord here in Oak Ridge. Kay is with me and thanks for taking the time to be with us today and talk.
Mrs. Lord: Thank you.
Mr. McDaniel: You’re welcome. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell me, first of all, where were you born and where did you grow up and tell me about your family.
Mrs. Lord: Well I was born in Pitman, New Jersey, and I went to school in Glassboro which is renowned because Khrushchev and Johnson had their meeting there. [Editor’s note: The Glassboro Summit Conference took place from June 23 to June 25, 1967, between U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson and Soviet Premier Alexei Kosygin. Nikita Khrushchev was removed from power in 1964 and replaced by Kosygin as Premier.]
Mr. McDaniel: Oh, is that right?
Mrs. Lord: It was early to notoriety in that part of the country. However, I graduated from high school there. I worked with the Pennsylvania Railroad for several years and Dick and I married and I came down here in ’45.
Mr. McDaniel: Well let’s talk a little bit about your family. Tell me about your mom and your dad, and do you have any brothers or sisters?
Mrs. Lord: I have a brother. I had a brother, I should say, who worked for Alcoa actually for years. My father was an accountant in Philadelphia and my mother was a stay-at-home. I had just a very normal teenager’s life.
Mr. McDaniel: Now the city that you grew up in, was it in a suburb of Philadelphia?
Mrs. Lord: Yeah. It was a suburb of Camden, New Jersey which is right across the river from Philadelphia. So commuting was no problem.
Mr. McDaniel: So it wasn’t very far for you to go into Philadelphia and into the big city?
Mrs. Lord: No.
Mr. McDaniel: So your dad was an accountant and your mom was a stay-at-home mom and you and your brother. Now what about school? Where did you go to school?
Mrs. Lord: I went to high school in Glassboro, New Jersey, and then from there upon graduation – of course the war was on and jobs were begging you. I worked for Curtis Publishing first and then the Pennsylvania Railroad.
Mr. McDaniel: What year did you graduate high school?
Mrs. Lord: ’42.
Mr. McDaniel: ’42. Okay, so you graduated high school in ’42 and went right to work?
Mrs. Lord: Mhm.
Mr. McDaniel: So you went right to work and what kind of job did you do?
Mrs. Lord: Clerical.
Mr. McDaniel: Clerical, because the war was going on and they needed workers on that, too.
Mrs. Lord: In the D&D.
Mr. McDaniel: So how did you end up coming to Oak Ridge?
Mrs. Lord: Because I had known Dick since in school days. Right? When he was in college, we dated, and he made the right choice to come down here and I followed.
Mr. McDaniel: So what year did you come here?
Mrs. Lord: ’45.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay, ’45. You got married what year?
Mrs. Lord: Well we were married in July and I came here in July.
Mr. McDaniel: Now was Dick already here?
Mrs. Lord: Yes, indeed.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay, so he was already here working?
Mrs. Lord: Mhm.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay. So what did you expect when you came to Oak Ridge? Had you been here before to visit or anything?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay. So when you came to visit the first time what was your impression?
Mrs. Lord: Mud. Very secret. Dick, I think, was working shifts and he would come to the Guest House, no less, late at night. But I just thought it was an experience, yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Now did you know what was going on? Did you have any idea?
Mrs. Lord: No.
Mr. McDaniel: What did they tell you? What did Dick tell you?
Mrs. Lord: Nothing [laughter].
Mr. McDaniel: But I’m sure you were curious as to what it was.
Mrs. Lord: I knew better than to ask.
Mr. McDaniel: Is that right? Did you know that it was like war work?
Mrs. Lord: When you had to have a pass to pass the gates at that point, no, you didn’t ask.
Mr. McDaniel: So you came for the visit and it was muddy and secret and everything. I guess it was different from home for you, wasn’t it?
Mrs. Lord: Oh indeed, but I guess – I don’t know when I came up. It must have been the spring before we were married.
Mr. McDaniel: So you got married and you came in ’45. Tell me about moving down here. Where did you live?
Mrs. Lord: Well, Dick was in the Army. There was no housing actually for privates, so we rented a room on Kingston Lane, Kingston Road I think, Kingfisher with another couple in an “A” house and we rented one room.
Mr. McDaniel: Well there wasn’t much room in an “A” house anyway, was there?
Mrs. Lord: No. But Dick Crawford and Dick Lord worked and I worked. So it worked out fine.
Mr. McDaniel: So yeah, tell me about your job when you came down here. What did you get a job doing? Where were you?
Mrs. Lord: I was secretary of Elm Grove School.
Mr. McDaniel: Oh is that right? How long did you do that?
Mrs. Lord: Six months or so.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay, right. What was life like when you first came and after you were married? Just tell me about what was life like. Now did you come before the end of the war? I guess you did.
Mrs. Lord: Oh yes. It was kind of exciting. Everything was new.
Mr. McDaniel: How so? I mean, tell me.
Mrs. Lord: Houses were new. There was a lot of activity.
Mr. McDaniel: I guess also you were kind of preoccupied with being a newlywed, weren’t you? [laughter] That was kind of new too, wasn’t it?
Mrs. Lord: Mhm.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay, so you came in the summer, I guess. You said June –
Mrs. Lord: July.
Mr. McDaniel: July. Then the bombs were dropped in a month or so after that.
Mrs. Lord: Oh, that’s a – we honeymooned in Gatlinburg, and every morning, early, Dick would go down and get a newspaper to see what is happening. When Truman announced he was going to drop it or what have you he was ecstatic.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. So after the bombs were dropped, you all stayed in Oak Ridge. Is that correct?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: So tell me about that. Tell me about your life after that.
Mrs. Lord: Well after living with another couple then we got a two bedroom house called Victory Cottages and usually they were just for GIs and their mate. They were now where the – off Illinois Avenue across from the hotel. That was an experience. They were so flimsy that our bathrooms – and I heard this voice and so I answered it. And Dick said, “Don’t do that. That’s Tom next door talking. Don’t answer.”
Mr. McDaniel: Is that right? So these Victory Cottages were just very close together, weren’t they?
Mrs. Lord: Oh, they were.
Mr. McDaniel: Now how big were they? How big was the Victory Cottage?
Mrs. Lord: A bedroom, a bath, a small bath and – we cooked with oil. It was very small, exceptionally small.
Mr. McDaniel: Now how long were you in the Victory Cottage?
Mrs. Lord: I don’t remember. It must have been maybe six months.
Mr. McDaniel: Then where did you move to from there?
Mrs. Lord: Oh, from that we moved to a “D” house on Disston Road because that gentleman was going to Bikini [Island] for the tests. So they rented us their home on Disston Road.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. So you were lucky to get a “D” house with just the two of you, weren’t you?
Mrs. Lord: Yes. We just took care of their house till they came back.
Mr. McDaniel: Oh, I see. So after they came back, where did you move?
Mrs. Lord: Oh, to a “B” house on Georgia Avenue.
Mr. McDaniel: And from there?
Mrs. Lord: To a “D” house on East Forest and then here.
Mr. McDaniel: Then here. Oh okay, so you stayed in the “D” house a long time, didn’t you?
Mrs. Lord: Oh, many years.
Mr. McDaniel: Yes. Did you have children?
Mrs. Lord: We had three children and they all went to Oak Ridge schools.
Mr. McDaniel: Is that right?
Mrs. Lord: Mhm. They’ve all done beautifully.
Mr. McDaniel: Now, once you started having kids did you work or stay at home?
Mrs. Lord: No. I stayed at home.
Mr. McDaniel: What kind of activities were you involved in in Oak Ridge because they say there was a club for everything in Oak Ridge?
Mrs. Lord: There was. Bridge clubs, Woman’s Club. We belonged to a dance club. We had dinners, I believe. Yes, we were busy.
Mr. McDaniel: What about the kids? Were there a lot of opportunities for the kids, a lot of activities for them?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Tell me about that.
Mrs. Lord: They had quite a nice recreation, children’s programs. The city did.
Mr. McDaniel: But you also kind of saw Oak Ridge grow up.
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Tell me about that. What was unique about living here and seeing that?
Mrs. Lord: The changes that were made, how a lot of it has been for the better. It was a safe city, obviously. It was in gates. You never locked your doors. Everybody was welcome. But it was – we grew. We grew as a city, obviously.
Mr. McDaniel: Now you were here – of course you moved here in ’45 when the gates were here and then you were here when the gates were opened in ’49. Tell me what do you remember about that and how did you feel about that?
Mrs. Lord: I felt it had to happen but I’m sorry it did. We were all so comfortable in our little cocoon, so we didn’t want to be involved with other things, but we had to incorporate. We had to.
Mr. McDaniel: Now do you remember that day? Were you all here? Did you participate?
Mrs. Lord: We were. We probably did.
Mr. McDaniel: Did you go to the parade or those things?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Now did you have children by then?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: So you were preoccupied with family, young family then, too.
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: What’s the thing, the one thing if you had to point out that was – that you remember the most, maybe the one event that really stands out in your mind as living in Oak Ridge that was different of unusual?
Mrs. Lord: Everything was different in a way. I mean the food was rationed. We had bus service wherever we wanted to go. That was different. It was just different, that’s all, but I was so happy to be a part of it.
Mr. McDaniel: Now do you feel like you were taken care of pretty well? I mean the powers that be kind of took care of the citizens in the early days of Oak Ridge?
Mrs. Lord: Indeed. Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Like you said you had bus service. You had – but you did have rationing here. Do you have any stories about rationing, things you couldn’t get or you wanted?
Mrs. Lord: Oh, you could get eggs, but they did have an odor [laughter].
Mr. McDaniel: Oh did they?
Mrs. Lord: I remember that well.
Mr. McDaniel: Do you remember standing in lines?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Tell me about that.
Mrs. Lord: Well there’s not much to tell except I stood in many a line at the A&P in Jackson Square.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. I guess you kind of got to know your neighbors that way a lot, didn’t you?
Mrs. Lord: We did. We were all here and growing up together and yes, we did. We made a lot of good friends.
Mr. McDaniel: I guess most of the people in Oak Ridge were your age or I mean at – they were young, they were young people, a lot of young folks. I guess that was an exciting time, wasn’t it?
Mrs. Lord: Yes, it was.
Mr. McDaniel: Now when you first came to Oak Ridge, did you all attend church service anywhere or did you – was there anything unique about that that you can recall?
Mrs. Lord: We didn’t attend church immediately, no.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. But there were a lot of activities. Did you go bowling and to the movies?
Mrs. Lord: We went bowling and we went to dance clubs and then we were members of different organizations, yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. What do you want to talk about? What do you want to remember?
Mrs. Lord: I just know that I had a very good life and I’m not at all ashamed of being an Oak Ridger, whereas a lot – we’ve gone overseas and, “Oh that’s where the bomb was.” But I have to recall, when our second son went to school and college, they were asked where they were from and he said, “Oak Ridge, Tennessee,” and the professor said, “That’s going to be an old town in no time,” because we were all the same age at the time.
Mr. McDaniel: Sure. It sort of is now isn’t it?
Mrs. Lord: It is.
Mr. McDaniel: It’s a very, as they say, very gray community now but there are other folks that have come in.
Mrs. Lord: Yeah, wonderful people, young people. Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: So you did say that your children grew up here and have gone on to do other things. How do you think having an education in the Oak Ridge schools has benefitted them?
Mrs. Lord: Tremendously. I think they had one of the best educations they could have. And that, if I even thought about leaving, would be one of the reasons to stay.
Mr. McDaniel: Were they involved in activities? I mean, you know, athletics and Scouts?
Mrs. Lord: Always. Scouts and many things.
Mr. McDaniel: Sure. If there’s one thing in Oak Ridge that you felt you would have liked to have been different what would that be?
Mrs. Lord: I can’t think of anything right now. No, I can’t think of anything.
Mr. McDaniel: Been happy with the experience here?
Mrs. Lord: Yeah, I have.
Mr. McDaniel: Let’s kind of go back to when you first came to Oak Ridge a little bit. What – I guess it was different. I mean this was kind of the country and it was kind of rustic and rough and you came from really the kind of – the city, metropolitan area.
Mrs. Lord: And I do get homesick for department stores. I wanted to go home and go [laughter] –
Mr. McDaniel: You wanted to go shopping, didn’t you?
Mrs. Lord: Yes, indeed.
Mr. McDaniel: Tell me, what did they have in Oak Ridge when you came as far as shopping goes?
Mrs. Lord: Well there was the A&P and there was the jeweler. I’ve forgotten his name right now. Hannabury. Grocery stores as I said. Shoe shop.
Mr. McDaniel: There was not much. Just little things? Now did you go to Knoxville very much?
Mrs. Lord: Not much but we did go occasionally.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. So you just kind of had to get over your desire to shop?
Mrs. Lord: Yep. That was it.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay. Well I mean is there anything else you want to talk about or tell me about, any stories?
Mrs. Lord: Oh I think – Dick and I had our first real disagreement before we were married because at home I had met a friend at one of the stores and he was working in Oak Ridge. I told Dick that he was a civilian and Dick said, “No he wasn’t.” “Yes, he was.” So we find out he was in intelligence and he couldn’t wear his uniform home.
Mr. McDaniel: Is that right?
Mrs. Lord: Yes, indeed. He would ride the buses and listen to conversation and was really – it was very interesting.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. Now was that – I guess that was very pervasive throughout Oak Ridge, I mean, at that time.
Mrs. Lord: Apparently it was.
Mr. McDaniel: A lot of secrecy and you didn’t talk about things and you just did what you were supposed to do.
Mrs. Lord: They were married and they could not live together. He had to live in a dorm and Adele had to live someplace else.
Mr. McDaniel: Is that right? Because he had to be able to listen and listen to the talk.
Mrs. Lord: I thought that was very interesting. Other than that I can’t think of anything. Just that I’m glad to be here and be a part of this.
Mr. McDaniel: Sure. All right. Well, very good. Let me thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.
Mrs. Lord: Thank you. I hope it makes a difference.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay. Just let me get that microphone off of you, that thing right there.
Mrs. Lord: Oh surely. I’d forgotten it.
Mr. McDaniel: That’s okay. That’s good. You’re supposed to do that.
[break in recording]
Mr. McDaniel: Are there – were there – well, who were the people in Oak Ridge that – were there people in Oak Ridge that influenced you? Maybe there were some older folks that you all met that kind of mentored you or anything like that? Were there people in Oak Ridge?
Mrs. Lord: I really can’t think of anyone right now. As I said we were all in the same boat at the same time.
Mr. McDaniel: I guess that kind of gave you some comfort though.
Mrs. Lord: Indeed.
Mr. McDaniel: That you didn’t feel alone.
Mrs. Lord: No. I felt I could get help if I needed it any place. Yeah.
Mr. McDaniel: You’ve lived here since 1945. If you had something that you wanted people to remember about you and living in Oak Ridge one of these years when you’re gone what would that be?
Mrs. Lord: That I was grateful to be here and to see all the changes that have occurred and I hope I gave something back to the city in way of our contributions. To the hospitals and so forth. Yes, I do.
Mr. McDaniel: Were you involved in the hospital? Did you volunteer there?
Mrs. Lord: I volunteered for years.
Mr. McDaniel: What made you decide to do that?
Mrs. Lord: I wanted to get out and help and do as I – in my way. I couldn’t have a job or at least I didn’t think I could, being a mama. So I did it in the evenings.
Mr. McDaniel: What kind of things did you do at the hospital?
Mrs. Lord: I was a gray lady before they were pink ladies and I enjoyed every moment of it.
Mr. McDaniel: I guess you met a lot of the medical folks in Oak Ridge through that.
Mrs. Lord: We have. I have seen some of our local doctors go through med school.
Mr. McDaniel: Oh is that right? Oh I understand. Okay. Just one last question. Besides the obvious, how do you think Oak Ridge has changed over the years that you’ve been here?
Mrs. Lord: It’s become a lot more technical, I believe. I really don’t know how to answer that question.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay.
[end of recording]

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ORAL HISTORY OF KATHRYN H. LORD
Interviewed and filmed by Keith McDaniel
March 17, 2011
Mr. McDaniel: This is Keith McDaniel. Today is March 17th, 2011 and I am at the home of Dick and Kay Lord here in Oak Ridge. Kay is with me and thanks for taking the time to be with us today and talk.
Mrs. Lord: Thank you.
Mr. McDaniel: You’re welcome. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell me, first of all, where were you born and where did you grow up and tell me about your family.
Mrs. Lord: Well I was born in Pitman, New Jersey, and I went to school in Glassboro which is renowned because Khrushchev and Johnson had their meeting there. [Editor’s note: The Glassboro Summit Conference took place from June 23 to June 25, 1967, between U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson and Soviet Premier Alexei Kosygin. Nikita Khrushchev was removed from power in 1964 and replaced by Kosygin as Premier.]
Mr. McDaniel: Oh, is that right?
Mrs. Lord: It was early to notoriety in that part of the country. However, I graduated from high school there. I worked with the Pennsylvania Railroad for several years and Dick and I married and I came down here in ’45.
Mr. McDaniel: Well let’s talk a little bit about your family. Tell me about your mom and your dad, and do you have any brothers or sisters?
Mrs. Lord: I have a brother. I had a brother, I should say, who worked for Alcoa actually for years. My father was an accountant in Philadelphia and my mother was a stay-at-home. I had just a very normal teenager’s life.
Mr. McDaniel: Now the city that you grew up in, was it in a suburb of Philadelphia?
Mrs. Lord: Yeah. It was a suburb of Camden, New Jersey which is right across the river from Philadelphia. So commuting was no problem.
Mr. McDaniel: So it wasn’t very far for you to go into Philadelphia and into the big city?
Mrs. Lord: No.
Mr. McDaniel: So your dad was an accountant and your mom was a stay-at-home mom and you and your brother. Now what about school? Where did you go to school?
Mrs. Lord: I went to high school in Glassboro, New Jersey, and then from there upon graduation – of course the war was on and jobs were begging you. I worked for Curtis Publishing first and then the Pennsylvania Railroad.
Mr. McDaniel: What year did you graduate high school?
Mrs. Lord: ’42.
Mr. McDaniel: ’42. Okay, so you graduated high school in ’42 and went right to work?
Mrs. Lord: Mhm.
Mr. McDaniel: So you went right to work and what kind of job did you do?
Mrs. Lord: Clerical.
Mr. McDaniel: Clerical, because the war was going on and they needed workers on that, too.
Mrs. Lord: In the D&D.
Mr. McDaniel: So how did you end up coming to Oak Ridge?
Mrs. Lord: Because I had known Dick since in school days. Right? When he was in college, we dated, and he made the right choice to come down here and I followed.
Mr. McDaniel: So what year did you come here?
Mrs. Lord: ’45.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay, ’45. You got married what year?
Mrs. Lord: Well we were married in July and I came here in July.
Mr. McDaniel: Now was Dick already here?
Mrs. Lord: Yes, indeed.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay, so he was already here working?
Mrs. Lord: Mhm.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay. So what did you expect when you came to Oak Ridge? Had you been here before to visit or anything?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay. So when you came to visit the first time what was your impression?
Mrs. Lord: Mud. Very secret. Dick, I think, was working shifts and he would come to the Guest House, no less, late at night. But I just thought it was an experience, yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Now did you know what was going on? Did you have any idea?
Mrs. Lord: No.
Mr. McDaniel: What did they tell you? What did Dick tell you?
Mrs. Lord: Nothing [laughter].
Mr. McDaniel: But I’m sure you were curious as to what it was.
Mrs. Lord: I knew better than to ask.
Mr. McDaniel: Is that right? Did you know that it was like war work?
Mrs. Lord: When you had to have a pass to pass the gates at that point, no, you didn’t ask.
Mr. McDaniel: So you came for the visit and it was muddy and secret and everything. I guess it was different from home for you, wasn’t it?
Mrs. Lord: Oh indeed, but I guess – I don’t know when I came up. It must have been the spring before we were married.
Mr. McDaniel: So you got married and you came in ’45. Tell me about moving down here. Where did you live?
Mrs. Lord: Well, Dick was in the Army. There was no housing actually for privates, so we rented a room on Kingston Lane, Kingston Road I think, Kingfisher with another couple in an “A” house and we rented one room.
Mr. McDaniel: Well there wasn’t much room in an “A” house anyway, was there?
Mrs. Lord: No. But Dick Crawford and Dick Lord worked and I worked. So it worked out fine.
Mr. McDaniel: So yeah, tell me about your job when you came down here. What did you get a job doing? Where were you?
Mrs. Lord: I was secretary of Elm Grove School.
Mr. McDaniel: Oh is that right? How long did you do that?
Mrs. Lord: Six months or so.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay, right. What was life like when you first came and after you were married? Just tell me about what was life like. Now did you come before the end of the war? I guess you did.
Mrs. Lord: Oh yes. It was kind of exciting. Everything was new.
Mr. McDaniel: How so? I mean, tell me.
Mrs. Lord: Houses were new. There was a lot of activity.
Mr. McDaniel: I guess also you were kind of preoccupied with being a newlywed, weren’t you? [laughter] That was kind of new too, wasn’t it?
Mrs. Lord: Mhm.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay, so you came in the summer, I guess. You said June –
Mrs. Lord: July.
Mr. McDaniel: July. Then the bombs were dropped in a month or so after that.
Mrs. Lord: Oh, that’s a – we honeymooned in Gatlinburg, and every morning, early, Dick would go down and get a newspaper to see what is happening. When Truman announced he was going to drop it or what have you he was ecstatic.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. So after the bombs were dropped, you all stayed in Oak Ridge. Is that correct?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: So tell me about that. Tell me about your life after that.
Mrs. Lord: Well after living with another couple then we got a two bedroom house called Victory Cottages and usually they were just for GIs and their mate. They were now where the – off Illinois Avenue across from the hotel. That was an experience. They were so flimsy that our bathrooms – and I heard this voice and so I answered it. And Dick said, “Don’t do that. That’s Tom next door talking. Don’t answer.”
Mr. McDaniel: Is that right? So these Victory Cottages were just very close together, weren’t they?
Mrs. Lord: Oh, they were.
Mr. McDaniel: Now how big were they? How big was the Victory Cottage?
Mrs. Lord: A bedroom, a bath, a small bath and – we cooked with oil. It was very small, exceptionally small.
Mr. McDaniel: Now how long were you in the Victory Cottage?
Mrs. Lord: I don’t remember. It must have been maybe six months.
Mr. McDaniel: Then where did you move to from there?
Mrs. Lord: Oh, from that we moved to a “D” house on Disston Road because that gentleman was going to Bikini [Island] for the tests. So they rented us their home on Disston Road.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. So you were lucky to get a “D” house with just the two of you, weren’t you?
Mrs. Lord: Yes. We just took care of their house till they came back.
Mr. McDaniel: Oh, I see. So after they came back, where did you move?
Mrs. Lord: Oh, to a “B” house on Georgia Avenue.
Mr. McDaniel: And from there?
Mrs. Lord: To a “D” house on East Forest and then here.
Mr. McDaniel: Then here. Oh okay, so you stayed in the “D” house a long time, didn’t you?
Mrs. Lord: Oh, many years.
Mr. McDaniel: Yes. Did you have children?
Mrs. Lord: We had three children and they all went to Oak Ridge schools.
Mr. McDaniel: Is that right?
Mrs. Lord: Mhm. They’ve all done beautifully.
Mr. McDaniel: Now, once you started having kids did you work or stay at home?
Mrs. Lord: No. I stayed at home.
Mr. McDaniel: What kind of activities were you involved in in Oak Ridge because they say there was a club for everything in Oak Ridge?
Mrs. Lord: There was. Bridge clubs, Woman’s Club. We belonged to a dance club. We had dinners, I believe. Yes, we were busy.
Mr. McDaniel: What about the kids? Were there a lot of opportunities for the kids, a lot of activities for them?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Tell me about that.
Mrs. Lord: They had quite a nice recreation, children’s programs. The city did.
Mr. McDaniel: But you also kind of saw Oak Ridge grow up.
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Tell me about that. What was unique about living here and seeing that?
Mrs. Lord: The changes that were made, how a lot of it has been for the better. It was a safe city, obviously. It was in gates. You never locked your doors. Everybody was welcome. But it was – we grew. We grew as a city, obviously.
Mr. McDaniel: Now you were here – of course you moved here in ’45 when the gates were here and then you were here when the gates were opened in ’49. Tell me what do you remember about that and how did you feel about that?
Mrs. Lord: I felt it had to happen but I’m sorry it did. We were all so comfortable in our little cocoon, so we didn’t want to be involved with other things, but we had to incorporate. We had to.
Mr. McDaniel: Now do you remember that day? Were you all here? Did you participate?
Mrs. Lord: We were. We probably did.
Mr. McDaniel: Did you go to the parade or those things?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Now did you have children by then?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: So you were preoccupied with family, young family then, too.
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: What’s the thing, the one thing if you had to point out that was – that you remember the most, maybe the one event that really stands out in your mind as living in Oak Ridge that was different of unusual?
Mrs. Lord: Everything was different in a way. I mean the food was rationed. We had bus service wherever we wanted to go. That was different. It was just different, that’s all, but I was so happy to be a part of it.
Mr. McDaniel: Now do you feel like you were taken care of pretty well? I mean the powers that be kind of took care of the citizens in the early days of Oak Ridge?
Mrs. Lord: Indeed. Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Like you said you had bus service. You had – but you did have rationing here. Do you have any stories about rationing, things you couldn’t get or you wanted?
Mrs. Lord: Oh, you could get eggs, but they did have an odor [laughter].
Mr. McDaniel: Oh did they?
Mrs. Lord: I remember that well.
Mr. McDaniel: Do you remember standing in lines?
Mrs. Lord: Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Tell me about that.
Mrs. Lord: Well there’s not much to tell except I stood in many a line at the A&P in Jackson Square.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. I guess you kind of got to know your neighbors that way a lot, didn’t you?
Mrs. Lord: We did. We were all here and growing up together and yes, we did. We made a lot of good friends.
Mr. McDaniel: I guess most of the people in Oak Ridge were your age or I mean at – they were young, they were young people, a lot of young folks. I guess that was an exciting time, wasn’t it?
Mrs. Lord: Yes, it was.
Mr. McDaniel: Now when you first came to Oak Ridge, did you all attend church service anywhere or did you – was there anything unique about that that you can recall?
Mrs. Lord: We didn’t attend church immediately, no.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. But there were a lot of activities. Did you go bowling and to the movies?
Mrs. Lord: We went bowling and we went to dance clubs and then we were members of different organizations, yes.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. What do you want to talk about? What do you want to remember?
Mrs. Lord: I just know that I had a very good life and I’m not at all ashamed of being an Oak Ridger, whereas a lot – we’ve gone overseas and, “Oh that’s where the bomb was.” But I have to recall, when our second son went to school and college, they were asked where they were from and he said, “Oak Ridge, Tennessee,” and the professor said, “That’s going to be an old town in no time,” because we were all the same age at the time.
Mr. McDaniel: Sure. It sort of is now isn’t it?
Mrs. Lord: It is.
Mr. McDaniel: It’s a very, as they say, very gray community now but there are other folks that have come in.
Mrs. Lord: Yeah, wonderful people, young people. Yes.
Mr. McDaniel: So you did say that your children grew up here and have gone on to do other things. How do you think having an education in the Oak Ridge schools has benefitted them?
Mrs. Lord: Tremendously. I think they had one of the best educations they could have. And that, if I even thought about leaving, would be one of the reasons to stay.
Mr. McDaniel: Were they involved in activities? I mean, you know, athletics and Scouts?
Mrs. Lord: Always. Scouts and many things.
Mr. McDaniel: Sure. If there’s one thing in Oak Ridge that you felt you would have liked to have been different what would that be?
Mrs. Lord: I can’t think of anything right now. No, I can’t think of anything.
Mr. McDaniel: Been happy with the experience here?
Mrs. Lord: Yeah, I have.
Mr. McDaniel: Let’s kind of go back to when you first came to Oak Ridge a little bit. What – I guess it was different. I mean this was kind of the country and it was kind of rustic and rough and you came from really the kind of – the city, metropolitan area.
Mrs. Lord: And I do get homesick for department stores. I wanted to go home and go [laughter] –
Mr. McDaniel: You wanted to go shopping, didn’t you?
Mrs. Lord: Yes, indeed.
Mr. McDaniel: Tell me, what did they have in Oak Ridge when you came as far as shopping goes?
Mrs. Lord: Well there was the A&P and there was the jeweler. I’ve forgotten his name right now. Hannabury. Grocery stores as I said. Shoe shop.
Mr. McDaniel: There was not much. Just little things? Now did you go to Knoxville very much?
Mrs. Lord: Not much but we did go occasionally.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. So you just kind of had to get over your desire to shop?
Mrs. Lord: Yep. That was it.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay. Well I mean is there anything else you want to talk about or tell me about, any stories?
Mrs. Lord: Oh I think – Dick and I had our first real disagreement before we were married because at home I had met a friend at one of the stores and he was working in Oak Ridge. I told Dick that he was a civilian and Dick said, “No he wasn’t.” “Yes, he was.” So we find out he was in intelligence and he couldn’t wear his uniform home.
Mr. McDaniel: Is that right?
Mrs. Lord: Yes, indeed. He would ride the buses and listen to conversation and was really – it was very interesting.
Mr. McDaniel: Right. Now was that – I guess that was very pervasive throughout Oak Ridge, I mean, at that time.
Mrs. Lord: Apparently it was.
Mr. McDaniel: A lot of secrecy and you didn’t talk about things and you just did what you were supposed to do.
Mrs. Lord: They were married and they could not live together. He had to live in a dorm and Adele had to live someplace else.
Mr. McDaniel: Is that right? Because he had to be able to listen and listen to the talk.
Mrs. Lord: I thought that was very interesting. Other than that I can’t think of anything. Just that I’m glad to be here and be a part of this.
Mr. McDaniel: Sure. All right. Well, very good. Let me thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.
Mrs. Lord: Thank you. I hope it makes a difference.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay. Just let me get that microphone off of you, that thing right there.
Mrs. Lord: Oh surely. I’d forgotten it.
Mr. McDaniel: That’s okay. That’s good. You’re supposed to do that.
[break in recording]
Mr. McDaniel: Are there – were there – well, who were the people in Oak Ridge that – were there people in Oak Ridge that influenced you? Maybe there were some older folks that you all met that kind of mentored you or anything like that? Were there people in Oak Ridge?
Mrs. Lord: I really can’t think of anyone right now. As I said we were all in the same boat at the same time.
Mr. McDaniel: I guess that kind of gave you some comfort though.
Mrs. Lord: Indeed.
Mr. McDaniel: That you didn’t feel alone.
Mrs. Lord: No. I felt I could get help if I needed it any place. Yeah.
Mr. McDaniel: You’ve lived here since 1945. If you had something that you wanted people to remember about you and living in Oak Ridge one of these years when you’re gone what would that be?
Mrs. Lord: That I was grateful to be here and to see all the changes that have occurred and I hope I gave something back to the city in way of our contributions. To the hospitals and so forth. Yes, I do.
Mr. McDaniel: Were you involved in the hospital? Did you volunteer there?
Mrs. Lord: I volunteered for years.
Mr. McDaniel: What made you decide to do that?
Mrs. Lord: I wanted to get out and help and do as I – in my way. I couldn’t have a job or at least I didn’t think I could, being a mama. So I did it in the evenings.
Mr. McDaniel: What kind of things did you do at the hospital?
Mrs. Lord: I was a gray lady before they were pink ladies and I enjoyed every moment of it.
Mr. McDaniel: I guess you met a lot of the medical folks in Oak Ridge through that.
Mrs. Lord: We have. I have seen some of our local doctors go through med school.
Mr. McDaniel: Oh is that right? Oh I understand. Okay. Just one last question. Besides the obvious, how do you think Oak Ridge has changed over the years that you’ve been here?
Mrs. Lord: It’s become a lot more technical, I believe. I really don’t know how to answer that question.
Mr. McDaniel: Okay.
[end of recording]