bullsballs:sure, 'free' bridge bought and paid for by canadia. america uses the bridge and pays tolls to canadia. after X amount of money is paid for X amount of years, will there be anyone alive to remember the 'promise' to turn over half the bridge and tolls to america? and with inflation, compounding interest and upkeep, will there be a balloon payment required?

So you think Canada's brilliant plan is to build a bridge and then wait for every American over the age of 21 to die so no one will remember to ask for payment? Contract law, how does it work?

Blairr:tomnardone206: Here is how I see it. The ambassador bridge was built with private money and operates as an independent business. Over the last 50 years the city of Windsor didn't plan well around it. Now, Canada wants to build a bridge that has more direct access to their freeway, but in doing so the new bridge will directly compete with an existing private business here in Detroit. I say that this isn't fair. I don't favor any government entity that wants to compete directly with private business. I'm not surprised that the bridge company has pulled off the gloves. I would too and you probably would too.

Pretty much. Anyone who thinks the Canadian government is being altruistic with this bridge is pretty naive. We're just trying to circumvent a private American business and the profit they accrue. The construction of the bridge will mean less cash deposits in American banks (that's what happens to the money of rich people, they don't keep pools full of gold) and thus higher interest rates for Americans seeking capital as the banks will have less capital themselves.

ricewater_stool:Moroun has got to be in the top 50 worst people on earth. He owns a ton of rotting real estate in Detroit, including the train station mentioned above, which he lets rot because it has a tunnel to Canada underneath it that he doesn't want anyone to use. He also wants to build his own, 2nd bridge to Canada but the Canadian government won't allow it. He's a billionaire and gives nothing of note to any charities. He seems to think he's going to be able to take it all with him when he croaks, which hopefully will be in the near future.

what a sad man. greed does horrible things to men, power too. Dicken's 'A Christmas Carol' airs on TV every year yet some never learn its age old lesson.

FTFA: The officer who answered was a friend of "Danny's". He assured me he would pass along my message and chuckled when I mentioned the free bridge. "You mean the bridge to nowhere?" he said. "If you believe that it's free I've got some swampland down in Florida I can sell you."

Ahh, the smug self assurance of the utterly misinformed. As soon as I saw the first "Let the people decide" ad I knew we were in trouble. And I've seen exactly zero ads from the other side, so it looks like Michigan is poised to eff this up. The day Matty Maroun dies should be a national holiday.

Usually, we turn to the government to provide infrastructure, and for good reason- it should be a positive externality operated without concern for direct income. You basically have to be a libertarian with your head so far up your ass you can see the gold standard to feel bad for this guy.

tomnardone206:Here is how I see it. The ambassador bridge was built with private money and operates as an independent business. Over the last 50 years the city of Windsor didn't plan well around it. Now, Canada wants to build a bridge that has more direct access to their freeway, but in doing so the new bridge will directly compete with an existing private business here in Detroit. I say that this isn't fair. I don't favor any government entity that wants to compete directly with private business. I'm not surprised that the bridge company has pulled off the gloves. I would too and you probably would too.

Well, another problem is that the current bridge is 80+ years old and Moroun has also let it rot. It needs significant work, which is another reason he wants to build another bridge of his own. And if the new bridge is not built in Detroit, it will be built elsewhere so Detroit loses out on a lot of jobs during and after construction.

It's just depressing how many people believe that old farker. He was sent to jail for defrauding the state and federal government on a bridge expansion project, which in turn is why Michigan and the Canadians are thinking "fark it, we'll build our own". Snyder's right that our ass is covered and it is impossible to lose money on this border crossing. Plus the Canadians assuming the risk, while we get matching funds from the feds for use elsewhere in the state. It's a sweet deal. Basically we pay half the costs, thus with us paying the feds throw in matching money. However we turn around and sell toll rights to Canada for a time period and get a lump sum up front to pay off all our costs. After Canada has gotten their money back via tolls, we get half the tolls as well. It's free farking money.

The only real issue I see is the use of Chinese steal. I'd have liked an agreement to use North American steel, but I guess you have to keep costs down.

/the guy also speculated a lot of land in Detroit and is doing a lot to prevent the redevelopment of Detroit

Blairr:tomnardone206: Here is how I see it. The ambassador bridge was built with private money and operates as an independent business. Over the last 50 years the city of Windsor didn't plan well around it. Now, Canada wants to build a bridge that has more direct access to their freeway, but in doing so the new bridge will directly compete with an existing private business here in Detroit. I say that this isn't fair. I don't favor any government entity that wants to compete directly with private business. I'm not surprised that the bridge company has pulled off the gloves. I would too and you probably would too.

Pretty much. Anyone who thinks the Canadian government is being altruistic with this bridge is pretty naive. We're just trying to circumvent a private American business and the profit they accrue. The construction of the bridge will mean less cash deposits in American banks (that's what happens to the money of rich people, they don't keep pools full of gold) and thus higher interest rates for Americans seeking capital as the banks will have less capital themselves.

Who said anything about altruism? Why would anyone imagine that we should build a bridge as a favour to someone? Trade with the United States is the life's blood of our economy, and is therefore a matter of highest national security. Screw your private business...who placed a cap on the number of bridges across the Detroit River? The Bluewater 'competes' with this jack-off too, should we close it?

Someone earlier said $127-million a day crosses this bridge, which sounds like a lot, but is inaccurate. It's closer to triple that.

After the new bridge is built, the Canadian government should promptly close their customs plaza on our side of the Ambassador Bridge...good luck collecting your tolls from a bridge to nowhere.

tomnardone, the Canadian government reserves the right to build public infrastructure vital to our national interest, if you can believe it - despite some guy in Detroit. Fair? Who cares.

And not for nothing Blairr, but your analysis of the impact on American banking is blindingly stupid.

tomnardone206:Here is how I see it. The ambassador bridge was built with private money and operates as an independent business. Over the last 50 years the city of Windsor didn't plan well around it. Now, Canada wants to build a bridge that has more direct access to their freeway, but in doing so the new bridge will directly compete with an existing private business here in Detroit. I say that this isn't fair. I don't favor any government entity that wants to compete directly with private business. I'm not surprised that the bridge company has pulled off the gloves. I would too and you probably would too.

HOW DARE ROBIN HOOD TRY TO GIVE US MONEY. THAT GOLD BELONGS TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN STEALING AND OPPRESSING US FOR DECADES

Barricaded Gunman:FTFA: The officer who answered was a friend of "Danny's". He assured me he would pass along my message and chuckled when I mentioned the free bridge. "You mean the bridge to nowhere?" he said. "If you believe that it's free I've got some swampland down in Florida I can sell you."

Ahh, the smug self assurance of the utterly misinformed. As soon as I saw the first "Let the people decide" ad I knew we were in trouble. And I've seen exactly zero ads from the other side, so it looks like Michigan is poised to eff this up. The day Matty Maroun dies should be a national holiday.

What's really funny is how they got that idiot to mentally leverage the "bridge to nowhere" from Alaska, even though this bridge clearly goes somewhere.

This new phenomenon of blathering idiots believing, or even "knowing" they are smarter than everyone else, is annoying as hell. Everyone should be forced to take an IQ test and the results should be tattooed on your forehead, written in reverse, so you see your score when you look in the mirror. The stupid need to be reminded to shut their stupid yaps.

bullsballs:will there be anyone alive to remember the 'promise' to turn over half the bridge and tolls to america?

Let us assume that no one ever writes down this agreement, and we all forget that the US gets half interest in the bridge after it's paid off or a period of time expires. SO WHAT? We still have a bridge that increases trade with Canada. That's good for all of us. As the article pointed out- 25% of all US/Canada trade passes through that region already.

The only loser in this arrangement is the guy who already happens to own a bridge in the area. Well, to farking bad.

Blairr:tomnardone206: Here is how I see it. The ambassador bridge was built with private money and operates as an independent business. Over the last 50 years the city of Windsor didn't plan well around it. Now, Canada wants to build a bridge that has more direct access to their freeway, but in doing so the new bridge will directly compete with an existing private business here in Detroit. I say that this isn't fair. I don't favor any government entity that wants to compete directly with private business. I'm not surprised that the bridge company has pulled off the gloves. I would too and you probably would too.

Pretty much. Anyone who thinks the Canadian government is being altruistic with this bridge is pretty naive. We're just trying to circumvent a private American business and the profit they accrue. The construction of the bridge will mean less cash deposits in American banks (that's what happens to the money of rich people, they don't keep pools full of gold) and thus higher interest rates for Americans seeking capital as the banks will have less capital themselves.

This isn't really directed at you, but for the edification of others.

The Moroun bridge no longer has the capacity to handle trade / traffic volume. He hasn't really tried to update it, because he's making money with it. Were you ever have to use the bridge on a regular basis, you would see how badly a new crossing is needed. There's a reason the Chamber of Commerce (which normally would kiss Moroun a$$) wants this new bridge: because it might hurt the Morouns, but it will help more rich people. Those rich people (in trickle down theory) will get more money than the Morouns lose and create more jobs. The union workers like it because it means more union jobs. Basically, it's a win-win except for the Morouns.

I'm not going to go as far as saying this guy is evil but he is certainly a greedy liar. He will say we don't need another bridge because traffic counts don't support it but he has plans to build another bridge. He owns several trucking companies so in addition to controlling the means of crossing, he wants to retain the advantage he can give his vehicles versus the competitions trucks.

I don't blame a person for trying to be successful but the level of lies he tells is disgusting.

Sliding Carp:what_now: You are 85 years old and you are a billionaire and this is how you spend your last few days on earth??

His hobby is watching Detroit's Central Station (which he also owns) decay.

[media.treehugger.com image 468x312] (click for photo series)

And the reason for that is the tunnel from that rotting station that leads to Canada, which would cut into *his* profit if rail traffic were to be allowed to use that tunnel (his ownership of the US end of that rail tunnel, and not letting anyone use it, means most rail cargoes have to be loaded onto trucks to head into Windsor, thereby increasing his profits from charging the tolls). He built that bridge for the sole purpose of getting filthy rich on the tolls, and he has done everything in his power to make sure a real competing bridge was never built. In fact, he never even considered building a replacement bridge himself until the Canadian government floated the idea of building the bridge he his now fighting tooth-and-nail (he expected to be dead before his current bridge fell down from neglect).

ha-ha-guy:It's just depressing how many people believe that old farker. He was sent to jail for defrauding the state and federal government on a bridge expansion project, which in turn is why Michigan and the Canadians are thinking "fark it, we'll build our own". Snyder's right that our ass is covered and it is impossible to lose money on this border crossing. Plus the Canadians assuming the risk, while we get matching funds from the feds for use elsewhere in the state. It's a sweet deal. Basically we pay half the costs, thus with us paying the feds throw in matching money. However we turn around and sell toll rights to Canada for a time period and get a lump sum up front to pay off all our costs. After Canada has gotten their money back via tolls, we get half the tolls as well. It's free farking money.

The only real issue I see is the use of Chinese steal. I'd have liked an agreement to use North American steel, but I guess you have to keep costs down.

/the guy also speculated a lot of land in Detroit and is doing a lot to prevent the redevelopment of Detroit

Even better, they agreed to use North American steel, and its been approved by the American Iron and Steel Institute (Link)

The Morouns are the absolute worst, and their commercials are so prevalent, it wouldn't surprise if Michiganders are so confused, they vote this idiotic proposal into their constitution.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat:Easier said than done. While Eminent Domain is regularly used by governments to get reluctant property owners to sell, someone with that much money will just draw out the process as long as he can.

Draw out the process nothing. SCOTUS showed in Kelo v. New London that all city council has to do is "carefully consider" the prospect, it can then do whatever the fark it wants, and that dude, billionaire or not, can hang. So if his money can't by a majority vote on the council he is toast, and the council could have this as a DONE DEAL by the end of the day.

Lost Thought 00:Eminent domain that bastard into the stone ages. Build an interstate right through the middle of his mansion

It was considered back when he tried to gouge the government over a trucking terminal. The issue is you'd have to wrestle so much from him, it would take forever. fark him and build around him. The bridge will remain useful more Detroit to Windsor traffic, but we can just route all the truck traffic and Chicago-Toronto stuff around him via I-94 directly to the new bridge.

HMS_Blinkin:Your Zionist Leader: And now the real reason that this city is in such a sad state comes to light. The greed and petty corruption have ground Detroit to a halt

That's a huge part of the problem. Mayor Bing is doing a good job but faces serious headwinds. A lot of the "wrong" people need to move away or die or something. There are glimmers of hope though, and maybe I'm naive but I think that eventually, some day, the better side will win out. I hope.

I still think too much of the prime land is owned by corrupt folk. Moroun is just the worst of the bunch. Bing's doing a good job, but fundamentally he needs to be backed by a City Council that has the balls to unleash eminent domain on a few key scumbags. Right now I'm torn on voting for the emergency manager prop, I dislike the idea of the state running it, but I do like the idea of how the state can roll in a really big farking hammer and pound Moroun into dust. Moroun can easily buy off the Detroit City Council because he's a big fish in Detroit, but he's going to have serious problems dealing with the Gov and State Leg. Snyder will likely crush him.