So to reiterate in Paris France where the French language comes from it's called KFC.

In Quebec it's PFK.

Insecure much?

It's less insecurity than it is a siege mentality. Here in France, the red octagonal street signs say "STOP." In Québec, they say "ARRÊT." The difference is that while there are many other countries in Europe around France, they speak many different languages (including Belgian and Swiss French), and French is the #2 language in Europe by number of native speakers. In Canada, the Québécois are surrounded by Anglophones.

karmachameleon:lol...so I don't know much about Quebec, except that it's a part of Canada, which I have always thought of as a primarily English-speaking country. Reading this article, I'm amused that there is such a thing as a "language minister" and a "language office" or department or whatever...I mean, seriously? When it comes to government waste, I can hardly think of anything more potentially wasteful that whatever a "language department" does.

So what is the deal with all this anyway? What's their problem with non-French language?

It stretches back a long time - when Britian won Canada from the French in the French and Indian Wars, really. Shortly after, Britain passed a law called the Quebec Act which gave French-speaking, Catholic-worshiping francophones equal rights. (as an intesting side note, this was one of the things that got New Englanders all hot-under-the-collar, leading to the American Revolution).

As Canada gained sovereignty, Quebec was still given special status. For example, Quebec's version of social security is seperate from the rest of Canada's. However, Until the late 70's/early 80's the province was still basically run by a tiny Anglophone leadership with a large base of francophones. People who lived generally without any English still had no right to French-language schools, road signs, ect.

During that time about 30 years ago though, a nationalist movement grew up - most exemplified by Parti (provincial) /Bloc(federal) Quebecois. The PQ where who passed Language laws - partally as a "f-you" to the anglophones, but also as a way to rally people toward independence. Now, the Quebec Nationalist movement is nearly dead in real terms, but it got SCARY close in 1995 (mostly due to the Non-side being completebuffoons on a Democrats-during-the-2000's level).

But the Language Police are still there. They still measure signs to make sure the French is X amount bigger then the English, and such. It's really their last desperate grasp, especially after the last national where the Bloc were decimated.

The_Original_Roxtar:I've never met a Quebecois who didn't understand written and spoken English.

Then you not very social. I know a few Albertans that only spoke french. My wife worked at a dairy for years and the boss would hire employees from quebec and they would learn english while living and working in St Isadore.

Half an hour from the farm i grew up on is a big english town of 6000. A half hour in the opposite direction are atleast 6 (all i can think of off the top of my head there are more) incredibly french villages where you cannot get english radio in your car and the stop signs say "Arret" And i would be able to find atleast a few people in each place that would struggle with english.

And thats Alberta. Quebecois deserve being made fun of but language is a huge problem there.

Kids grow up in Quebec and can't speak English and it keeps them from expanding their culture because they can find work anywhere but Quebec.

\I have a beef\\french was beaten out of my (white) grandmother by nuns at a residential school. My grandmother refused to speak french in the home because she was afraid her children would be beaten for using it. Residential schools werent just an indian thing. They took so much from so many peoples heritage.\\\Both languages should be taught 1-12 through the entire country.

When I was in Vancouver doing some work in the early 90s, a woman was telling me that her dad was a pilot for Air Canada. They were required to keep somebody on board to speak French to controllers when the flights were into Quebec. What was outrageous was that EVEN FRANCE talks to pilots in English. The only place in the world where airliners flew (at least in terms of international airports, and the places her dad flew into Quebec qualified as "international") that had this special requirement was Quebec.

Most Canadians west of Ontario seem to absolutely hate Quebec with a passion, and mostly over this sort of stupidity.

I knew a salesman who had an interesting story about getting lost in Quebec; they asked some local for directions, and the local Quebecois played stupid, "no parlez vous Englais" - but when he lamented he was willing to pay for directions, the guy immediately spit out the directions, in perfect English. He tore off without paying the guy, because, as he said to the guy as he was leaving, "I said I was willing to pay for the information, until I found out you were playing games with me"

Wolf892:Bug2k: Montrealers such as myself are largely sick of these laws, including most of my francophone friends.

And yet the people who keep making them continue to get voted in...so someone must be loving this shiat...

They don't "continue to be voted in". They were recently elected after almost a decade of a Liberal government that people wanted to turf out because of massive corruption scandals and completely incompetent handling of student protests. The PQ's election had little to do with language and less with sovereignty, which only about a quarter of the population supports. It won't stop them from some idiocy around language, but don't mistake the situation for public support.

karmachameleon:quatchi: karmachameleon: quatchi: Except in Quebec where it is PFK

What does the P stand for?

Poulet is French for Chicken. So... Poulet Frit Kentucky.

lol...so I don't know much about Quebec, except that it's a part of Canada, which I have always thought of as a primarily English-speaking country. Reading this article, I'm amused that there is such a thing as a "language minister" and a "language office" or department or whatever...I mean, seriously? When it comes to government waste, I can hardly think of anything more potentially wasteful that whatever a "language department" does.

So what is the deal with all this anyway? What's their problem with non-French language?

There's not much else to do but biatch about stuff when the rest of canada (re: anglos) are paying the bills

karmachameleon:saintstryfe: But the Language Police are still there. They still measure signs to make sure the French is X amount bigger then the English, and such. It's really their last desperate grasp, especially after the last national where the Bloc were decimated.

Thanks for the info. To me this all sounds rather hilarious (and pathetically insecure).

Well, it's not entirely. For several generations, being francophone was a real limit to your ability to grow, And it wasn't just your language - it was the community you were raised in. Anglophones were people with British names, raised in British way, and they were expected to be the leaders. Francophones were not expected to ever achieve. To start, it was a reasonable response. You have 50+% of your population who speaks little or no English, why should all the signs be in English? (remember, back in the 70's we weren't so connected, people could be raised like that).

I agree today it is a little out of place. But it's historical roots make it a bit more clear why it started.

And it's not without precedence either - in France, theAcadémie française controls french language use - dictating what a hamburger is called for instance. In a world where French people and English people have been feuding since 1066, mostly with France being on the sad side of things, they are a bit defensive about English language getting a foothold.

/my parents were Anglophones who left in the early 80's, just as I was born. I was actually an Anchor Baby of sorts. I can't say Rene Lesveque (the first big leader of the PQ) to them without getting nasty looks.//I say Rene Lesveque frequently.

When you do business with Quebec, get ready for plenty of useless, absurd, petulant, and potentially costly language requirements to be legally inserted into your posterior. And yes, you will be the one paying to get Quebec compliant.

I remember that, a while back, I got a job supporting a software product by phone, doing support for the US and Canada. We did not have French-language support, so if anyone called in from Quebec, pardon-moi, but we just had to try to get through it in English.

Most of the time, the callers were cool with this, and we got through it. (I could at least send them documentation in French if all else failed.) But I dealt with some total couillonswho were outraged that we weren't offering support in French, and started biatching at me about it.

The worst part was that, for some reason, I found the fact that they were going off on me in very heavily accented English hilarious, so I was trying not to openly laugh at them.

..so I don't know much about Quebec, except that it's a part of Canada, which I have always thought of as a primarily English-speaking country. Reading this article, I'm amused that there is such a thing as a "language minister" and a "language office" or department or whatever...I mean, seriously? When it comes to government waste, I can hardly think of anything more potentially wasteful that whatever a "language department" does.

Yet despite this stupidity I am still happy to live in a province where, at a minimum, we conduct our absurdities in a civil manner*. The '96 referendum came so close (approx 1%) to tearing Canada apart and yet the next day the results were accepted without violence or social unrest. Many places, in the 1st world even, wouldn't be able to claim the same.

As a local I feel this is more of a case of an overzealous staffer than anything else. Everyone now has to make the same tired old statements, press releases, face saving, and rhetoric that they do every time. It's an empty ritual and most people I know just hope they can do it as quickly as possible so that sleeping dogs lie.

Paris1127:As Churchill once described the US and UK: "two countries divided by a common language"

I've always liked that one.

Being Canadian is rather odd as our version of English has both American and English spellings.

When I first started political blogging on a semi regular basis it was 2004 and the blowback over the well meant but ill advised letter writing campaign against Bush from Brits via the Guardian newspaper was sweeping the internet so I carefully dropped my extra Us and other Canadianisms and carefully formulated my sentences to make my nationality less obvious without actually lying about it.

I am, of course, long past that point by now.

karmachameleon:So what is the deal with all this anyway? What's their problem with non-French language?

As mentioned above they have for better or worse adopted a siege mentality as regards their language but their over zealousness in this regard has made them more enemies than friends. In the story above the language police made a boneheaded decision and the language minister was forced to recant and strike down the ridiculous rule after three days of public facepalming.

I get what they're doing and why they're doing it I just think how they are doing it is wrong headed.

Dear Quebecians (No, I don't really care what made-up pseudo-French term you use to refer to yourselves) - Learn English like all your neighbors. Jesus, even the real French make fun of you for speaking a form of their language abandoned in the 16th century. Take that as a hint, guys.

This is typical of Quebecois. Language laws are just an extension of the separatist population's overall desire to be a distinct and sovereign nation. We are French! You will not corrupt our culture with your <i>Hanglish!</i>

Former PQ MNA Pierre Curzi, who attended the language meeting, said he found it suspect that media organizations are reporting on language inspections at the same time the government is working on Bill 14."It's bizarre that all this is coming out now," he said. "It's almost like this is a campaign on the part of the press."

No shiat.Sun News is practically the official propaganda department for the Neoconservative Party.