People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.

Starts at the top and works its way down.

No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.

When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.

When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.

No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.

I live in Oregon. Our vote doesn't matter anyway, even if you care.

We're over-simplifying a complicated issue. There's a lot of truth in every corner of it that's overlooked in the discussion. It may not be possible to do it justice or be worth the effort. I think it was @FrodoFragins who had a signature that went something to the effect, "For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is as wrong as it is simple." That happens a lot in discussions here in my opinion because the format doesn't lend itself well to having them.

I hope you find a good path through the trademark fiasco. That sort of stuff is exhausting to deal with.

We do very much care.

What ever happens down there, has a big effect on what happens up here.

Socially and Economically.

We care here too. That doesn't make our vote matter. It hasn't mattered, ever, and I can't see a feasible scenario where it does while the electoral system stays in place. That's just reality. That's why I say the issue is more complex than can be given justice.

What do you do in a democratic republic where your vote doesn't matter?

Off topic (and flirting dangerously with political discussions)...

One of the more interesting ideas that our newly formed provincial coalition government (New Democratic Party + Greens) here in British Columbia has talked about is electoral reform to make the provincial government be reflective of popular vote: If a party gets 12% of the popular vote they would have 12% of the elected representatives.

Of course that would almost guarantee nothing but coalition governments going forward. But I like that - these old weasels tend to behave better when they have to worry about other old weasels from competing parties they have married for convenience pulling the rug out from under them.

It sounds good on paper, but it totally sucks for all those who do not live in the population centers.

It would be in their best political interest to make sure that there are a few token rural MPs near the top of the party pecking order. Besides, local interest representation once they get to Victoria and form the government is more myth than reality.

Nationally we in the west were pretty much ignored, until very recently because a government was declared before they even started counting our western votes.

History has shown time and time again that politicians only care about where the votes come from.

If blizzard saw that a classic server was worth the time and investment, they'd have done it by now. They don't go "ah yeah that classic server would make us millions! But lets not bother making it"...

...no, they more go "well a lot of people are playing these classic WoW servers, but we are pretty sure most people wouldn't pay for it and it wouldn't be worth the investment and resources to put into it"

Not true. And I quote from their own devs, "You think you do, but you don't." It has very little to do with what will make them money. They HAVE money, that is for certain. It has more to do with them thinking they know what the players want, regardless of how much interest there is. They truly believe that players don't actually want it once they get a taste of it again. The devs go on to point of the unbalance of vanilla, the bugs, etc. They believe that the players who want a Vanillla server are blinded by nostalgia. I feel it is insulting and presumptuous to be told what we do and don't want by the devs. I fail to see how launching a true Vanilla server hurts anyone. Other MMO's have done it for a long time - heck, i'm playing on a progression server right now for Everquest and enjoying every minute of it.

Condemning theft and cheating doesn't automatically mean defending the other party. Also, reading through the whole fiasco it seems many people do indeed need a tutorial in Morality 101 since a lot of people don't even understand the most basic things about decency or being a good human being, its kind of a lost thing these days apparently. Funny posts indeed.

/Cheers,Lahnmir

'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

Kyleran on yours sincerely

But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

The dates they restored the database is in July for Darrowshire. Forget it not going back.

They just updated that to 20th September. I think its for the old servers which will most likely be empty because Light's Hope had close to 6k on their Elysium servers when they came on. The old servers are technically dead. Whitekidney did a good job by destroying the database.

Providing improved services for games will do far more to stop private servers than to shut them down using copyright laws. Internet services like steam have done far more to make people pay for regular copies compared to making intrusive DRM.

The core problem, Blizzard don't see enough money in providing vanilla wow servers. The majority of people would rather be on a quality server than dubious servers like nostalrius and elysium but Blizzard looks the other way.

Is it immoral to play on a private server? Since morals is more complex than right and wrong its hard to answer that question. However, according to the laws in my country its not explicitly illegal to play on a private server and my actions doesn't count as theft.

I pirate a lot of crap, but I realize I am being a piece of shit for it. I don't justify it by saying well my orphan guests really really wanted to watch Story of O but it wasn't available on Netflix.

Constantine, The Console Poster

"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung

Who's being hurt by the emulation of Vanilla WoW? A multi-billion dollar corporation? I think they'll survive.

That's absolutely missing the point that the content of those "emulation servers" is not the owners' to use. It belongs to Blizzard. The fact that this most basic of facts is brushed aside by proponents of the "private" server issue is disturbing.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Who's being hurt by the emulation of Vanilla WoW? A multi-billion dollar corporation? I think they'll survive.

That's absolutely missing the point that the content of those "emulation servers" is not the owners' to use. It belongs to Blizzard. The fact that this most basic of facts is brushed aside by proponents of the "private" server issue is disturbing.

Disturbing to some, pragmatic to others. Probably best to get over it, nothing's going to change unless Blizzard seeks extreme legal ramifications or offers a paid service for Vanilla.

Who's being hurt by the emulation of Vanilla WoW? A multi-billion dollar corporation? I think they'll survive.

That's absolutely missing the point that the content of those "emulation servers" is not the owners' to use. It belongs to Blizzard. The fact that this most basic of facts is brushed aside by proponents of the "private" server issue is disturbing.

Disturbing to some, pragmatic to others. Probably best to get over it, nothing's going to change unless Blizzard seeks extreme legal ramifications or offers a paid service for Vanilla.

I would submit the fact that they chose to do neither is evidence to support the idea the Blizzard does not see it disturbing or disgusting enough to warrant those actions.

I think, if they were being honest, most of the devs at Blizzard would submit they, at least, understand the desire of some to play the vanilla version of WoW, even if they don't think it's profitable enough an endeavor to warrant their time.

I think, if they were being honest, most of the devs at Blizzard would submit they, at least, understand the desire of some to play the vanilla version of WoW, even if they don't think it's profitable enough an endeavor to warrant their time.

They did, 'countless' times over the years...

From Blizzard's perspective it is pointless endeavor, it is 'been there, done that' waters. There is a no point going back, especially with no way going forward...

I'm surprised there aren't more people outraged that so many people got screwed over after donating in good faith. In this case gamers literally got cheated out of their money. Sad. I hope that team is held accountable.

wait .. wait.. are you saying that thieves got cheated out of there money .. You have got to kidding me ..

I'm surprised there aren't more people outraged that so many people got screwed over after donating in good faith. In this case gamers literally got cheated out of their money. Sad. I hope that team is held accountable.

wait .. wait.. are you saying that thieves got cheated out of there money .. You have got to kidding me ..

And you want the team of bigger thieves to be accountable .. ???

Sorry Torv , they all get what they deserve here

I do think the dirty pirates that stole money deserve to held accountable, legally. I don't think the money should be returned to anyone. Both parties being wrong doesn't mean the admin team should be let off. They shouldn't.

The justice isn't for the people that got cheated. They did get the consequences of their choice. The justice is for a society that shouldn't tolerate this sort of behavior. It's to send message on principle that we should be behaving better and those that break laws will be punished.

I'm surprised there aren't more people outraged that so many people got screwed over after donating in good faith. In this case gamers literally got cheated out of their money. Sad. I hope that team is held accountable.

wait .. wait.. are you saying that thieves got cheated out of there money .. You have got to kidding me ..

And you want the team of bigger thieves to be accountable .. ???

Sorry Torv , they all get what they deserve here

I do think the dirty pirates that stole money deserve to held accountable, legally. I don't think the money should be returned to anyone. Both parties being wrong doesn't mean the admin team should be let off. They shouldn't.

The justice isn't for the people that got cheated. They did get the consequences of their choice. The justice is for a society that shouldn't tolerate this sort of behavior. It's to send message on principle that we should be behaving better and those that break laws will be punished.

Then why you feel bad for those players ..They got what they deserve .. Actually would be a bonus if they got there identity stolen, beings they advocate stealing ..

"I'm surprised there aren't more people outraged that so many people got screwed over after donating in good faith. In this case gamers literally got cheated out of their money"

I'm surprised there aren't more people outraged that so many people got screwed over after donating in good faith. In this case gamers literally got cheated out of their money. Sad. I hope that team is held accountable.

wait .. wait.. are you saying that thieves got cheated out of there money .. You have got to kidding me ..

And you want the team of bigger thieves to be accountable .. ???

Sorry Torv , they all get what they deserve here

I do think the dirty pirates that stole money deserve to held accountable, legally. I don't think the money should be returned to anyone. Both parties being wrong doesn't mean the admin team should be let off. They shouldn't.

The justice isn't for the people that got cheated. They did get the consequences of their choice. The justice is for a society that shouldn't tolerate this sort of behavior. It's to send message on principle that we should be behaving better and those that break laws will be punished.

Then why you feel bad for those players ..They got what they deserve .. Actually would be a bonus if they got there identity stolen, beings they advocate stealing ..

"I'm surprised there aren't more people outraged that so many people got screwed over after donating in good faith. In this case gamers literally got cheated out of their money"

Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

While I'm all for holding accountability and repercussions, going so far as to wish for further laws being broken to simply spite folks who have previously broken laws... /rollseyes

Vent your frustration for the world in general at the gym or something.

Sorry brother , if someone wants to be a thief , and lay down with more thieves and then fund the thieves by purchasing gold from there gold selling service , I hope they get burnt .. badly ..

By having further laws be broken? Where's the sense in that? The punishment should befit the crime, not some misguided malicious wishes from someone who is simply watching something happen.

Hell, most if the world won't even put to death murderers anymore because eye for an eye has been deemed a barbaric system of punishment.

Well im not simply watching , these servers and people that play on them in my eyes steal from me .. Im protecting my investments ..

And just to add some of these Private servers have already been linked to Identity Theft scams , Some are set up specifically to access peoples financial info thru gold sevrvices for that reason only .. Not to give people Vanilla Wow .. lmao

While I'm all for holding accountability and repercussions, going so far as to wish for further laws being broken to simply spite folks who have previously broken laws... /rollseyes

Vent your frustration for the world in general at the gym or something.

Sorry brother , if someone wants to be a thief , and lay down with more thieves and then fund the thieves by purchasing gold from there gold selling service , I hope they get burnt .. badly ..

By having further laws be broken? Where's the sense in that? The punishment should befit the crime, not some misguided malicious wishes from someone who is simply watching something happen.

Hell, most if the world won't even put to death murderers anymore because eye for an eye has been deemed a barbaric system of punishment.

Well im not simply watching , these servers and people that play on them in my eyes steal from me .. Im protecting my investments ..

And just to add some of these Private servers have already been linked to Identity Theft scams , Some are set up specifically to access peoples financial info thru gold sevrvices for that reason only .. Not to give people Vanilla Wow .. lmao

But lets keep supporting these bottom feeding scumbags

Support? I'm not supporting breaking the law, my views pretty much align with the post of @Torval's that I awesomed and with the likes of Constantine and Iselin- I've pirated music and played on private servers before. I don't have any qualms calling it what it is, I knew the risks going into doing both.

That's still no reason to wish future ill by having other thieves break even more laws and attempt to exploit individuals for vastly more financial deamage than you, me, Suzie, and everyone else here knows Blizzard endures because of private vanilla servers (which is pretty much pocket change to Blizzard, if that). It's not equitable to wish some grandiose malice. It just reeks of "they broke the rules, so I wanna watch them burn!" That's not a equitable punishment; that's you getting your rocks off spiting others.

Whenever you can prove your own shit doesn't stink, then you can lay legitimate claim to the idea that you should be the arbiter of every petty lawbreaker's destruction. Until then, let's keep it realistic and apropos to the actions taken, yes?