this goes for all pro hormones. no one knows how much will convert, how much will bind with/interact with the androgen receptor, or how much will convert into inactive metabolites.

this goes for all pro hormones.

Yes, understood. However, the idea of a test base is to improve how you feel and possibly avoid certain side effects. I have had friends use OTC test base products with the same compound in the same conditions and have seen absolutely no improvement of sides such as lethargy. So I would rather try a compound first and see how I react to it and save my $40 before I buy a product that may do nothing at all to contribute to my cycle. The OP may feel different, though.

you can try to keep your own test levels up with hcgen or bulk daa, start 2 weeks before cycle and run through pct. Depending on the dose of epi and cycle length it may prevent shutdown. In turn less lethargy and libido issues and smoother pct. You can find daa in bulk for around 15 bucks for 200 grams. The idea is to piggyback your natty test levels, but the ph/ds cycle length and dose play a role in how long shut down takes

Yeah I always wondered why everyone called epi a PH it is clearly a steroid.

And a weak one at that.

I say stack it with Phera. Yes I know it was banned however for whatever reason it is relatively easy to get your hands on along with x-tren - hassle-free I might add.

Pheraplex has a good anabolic:androgenic ratio. It is nearly twice as androgenic as testosterone and has only little conversion to estrogen. Someone needs to modify this compound, molecularly fix the conversion issue altogether, and put it on the market again. It was and is a fantastic mass builder.

I say stack it with Phera. Yes I know it was banned however for whatever reason it is relatively easy to get your hands on along with x-tren - hassle-free I might add.

Pheraplex has a good anabolic:androgenic ratio. It is nearly twice as androgenic as testosterone and has only little conversion to estrogen. Someone needs to modify this compound, molecularly fix the conversion issue altogether, and put it on the market again. It was and is a fantastic mass builder.

and your friends just aren't dosing it properly. you think 40 bucks is gonna get you anything from a 2 step pro hormone? no.

you'll need at the least 2 bottles for a 4 week cycle, and more if you want to run 6-8 weeks.

you can use pp's andromass, it's good stuff, and one bottle is enough for a nice test base. but i'd rather have 2 of theirs as well.

My point is I do not think the cost of the test base is necessarily worth the benefits. Just my opinion. And if you have to use double or triple the dose of one of these products to make it effective then that is very misleading from the company that defines the effective dose for their product. I don't think it is worth $40 and I especially do not think it is worth 2 or 3 times that amount. At that point it is more expensive than just buying test.

Great thread ! In about to be using a bottle of forerunner labs alpha mass at recommended dosage on bottle for 4 weeks and a bottle of 4ad rde the new one at half dose for 4 weeks then at normal for 2 weeks while on epi/tren for 4 weeks. So I'll see how this goes first hand

and your friends just aren't dosing it properly. you think 40 bucks is gonna get you anything from a 2 step pro hormone? no.

you'll need at the least 2 bottles for a 4 week cycle, and more if you want to run 6-8 weeks.

you can use pp's andromass, it's good stuff, and one bottle is enough for a nice test base. but i'd rather have 2 of theirs as well.

I hope so.....I invested in 2 AMv2 and 1 AMv3 so I can run 11-12 weeks at 6 a day....and I want to run deca at 400mg per week for 9 weeks. would rather do 2 9-weekers at 400mg per week than 2 12-weekers at 300mg per week. and it gives me the 2-3 week overshoot of the AM everybody was suggesting. Only into the AM's for ~300 and change....not bad for 3 bottles/12 weeks worth at full dose. just hope it works as advertised...I guess use some dermacrine as well since its being produced by BPS now.

My point is I do not think the cost of the test base is necessarily worth the benefits. Just my opinion. And if you have to use double or triple the dose of one of these products to make it effective then that is very misleading from the company that defines the effective dose for their product. I don't think it is worth $40 and I especially do not think it is worth 2 or 3 times that amount. At that point it is more expensive than just buying test.

At the end of the day, Testosterone by itself is the best option. In fact, I'm so impressed with test-e that I think I'll just always use it stand alone or with mast-e for estro control. But I thought the OP said legality was his issue, thus the need for an oral test base.. I'm for Phera or Andro series

At the end of the day, Testosterone by itself is the best option. In fact, I'm so impressed with test-e that I think I'll just always use it stand alone or with mast-e for estro control. But I thought the OP said legality was his issue, thus the need for an oral test base.. I'm for Phera or Andro series

Yeah you are right I wasn't suggesting that the OP use test because he did say he wanted otc. I was just saying my personal opinion when it comes to cost vs effectiveness of otc test bases. I suppose if money is not an issue the cost doesn't matter. Finances suck while in college, though lol.