A time capsule of the greatest financial mania in the history of mankind, told in real-time by regular folks and patriots. May future generations better understand the madness of crowds, and how power and money corrupt.

I mentioned this weeks ago. At work the bulletin board is stuffed to the gills with firesale ads. Everyone is scrambling to dump all the toys they bought with their house ATM: Motorcycles, boats, cars, skiing equip, HOUSES, animals, electronic equip. You name it, it's for sale. And right at the start of the summer season when you'd think they would want to use these toys.Oh it's also funny you showed a diamond ring. In the company classifieds, I am seeing lots of wedding sets for sale. Is the financial stress breaking up heretofore happy unions?

Anon 4:02 PM wrote:“I have been looking to buy a used BMW for about a month. Nobody is having any fire sales yet. I've made a few low offers, nothing doing so far.

I keep reading on blogs about all these cheap cars, boats, etc. Where the hell are they all? Not anywhere near me that's for sure.”-------------------If you just make phone calls and offer lowballs, then forget it – the seller thinks you are wasting his time. If you actually take the car for a test drive and check it out good, this will convey to the seller that you are indeed a serious buyer with cash in hand.

THEN you offer 50% of the asking price, and begin negotiating from there.

My technique is to pick a day when the weather is really sh!tty, dress appropriately, and then keep the seller outdoors, suffering, while you take your time going over the car and negotiating. Often the seller will throw in the towel just to get rid of the car, you, and to get back indoors where it’s warm & dry.

People who post on my 'Scottsdale Sucks' blog are reporting that up in the "affluent" areas like DC Ranch, you see brand-new luxury cars that are barely a few months old with for sale signs in them.

Is the financial stress breaking up heretofore happy unions?

Yep - the golddiggers are finding out those "rich" men they married were just HELOC phonies!

When I lived in Scottsdale I consistently heard from women that every guy in a Porsche or BMW in that town who also lives in a nice house is totally cash-broke. They wine and dine the girls, then 2 months later all the cards are maxed out and the fun ends.

My wife has noticed that at her employer as well. They're a huge company with over 40k employees (and about 2,000 at her plant). It's just amazing to us that many of these people were part of the "money is no object" crowd not all that long ago! Funny observation btw, and yes you WOULD think now would be the time to be enjoying toys, not selling them.

If you're looking for a BMW... now that might take awhile. We'll have to work through all the other impulse purchases first. Show a little faith, anon!

No matter how low houses go - don't buy one! At least not in the U.S.A. For those starting out, the admonition is probably moot as you probably can't afford even a starter home. Lucky for you! Cause once you buy you are buying into the American Dream - probably Kunstler's suburban utopia, where the pressures to engage in the prettification of the U.S. are ever present. There's landscaping, painting, recalcitrant machines (of which there's a boat load - washers, dryers, appliances, mowers, weed wackers - and the simple machines - levers, pulleys, inclined planes - they all break). Remember - no less a luminary that Robert Shiller has stated that the return on a house over the last good long while (50 years?) is nil - yes nil. If you doubt it - buy a house and live in it for 25 years.

If you just make phone calls and offer lowballs, then forget it – the seller thinks you are wasting his time. If you actually take the car for a test drive and check it out good, this will convey to the seller that you are indeed a serious buyer with cash in hand.

THEN you offer 50% of the asking price, and begin negotiating from there.

I did just that on Saturday. Guy was asking $28K. Emailed him, made appointment, showed up, test drove for 20 minutes. Offered him $23K. Sellers said $27.5K is his bottom line and said if I change my mind, let him know.

I honestly don't know where eveyone is finding these desperate sellers. They are non-existent around me.

PUHLEEZE. This kind of socialist talk is ridiculous. You want to make 190X average employee money? Work your ass off and become a CEO yourself. Or start your own evil tech company and make 1000X your salary now.

Best Buy just annouced yesterday their profits are nose diving as their bed and butter the past couple years, flat-screen tv's, sales are tanking bigtime and circuit city is in total panic mode as they announced they want to stop giving guidance numbers going forward.

This is just the begining. Car makers, electronics, luxury good, etc.. All of these are going to start hurting bigtime.

Funny you mention BMW: a financial radio show host mentioned how he was doing some counseling with a couple where he drove a 5-series BMW, and she drove a newer Mazda. He was paying $800/mo, and she was paying $600/month.

The problem? He earns $14/hr, and she earns $12. He didn't say if they purchased the cars via MEW or not...

Yeah, there's a lot of people who are stretched thin by their consumer culture.

eBay Motors just had a listing sale, only $1, normally its a $40 to list a vehicle. So if you want to shop for a BMW you will have GOBS of choices on ebay motors right now.

But like the other poster said, I'd rather have a Toyota Camry. In any case ebay is PACKED with listings right now.

As far as acquiring cheap toys is concerned, most of them guzzle gas although I'll probably pick up a mid-sized bike in the next year. Its more important to me to ride a bicycle, stay in shape then sit on my ass in a big expensive toy. The motorhomes need to be recycled.

Oh, yeah, there's a realtor (wanna-be developer) who was driving a slick $500k Mercedes coup around Bakersfield a few years ago, posing as a big-wig. Jets, expensive suits, watches/jewelry, a huge house, multiple fast cars, bodyguards with even a K-9 team!

Of course, 5 years ago the guy was working for UPS as a driver. A real "rags to riches" story.

Comes out the guy was leasing the cars, and was so heavily-leveraged in real estate (now debt) that he's returned the car, owes everyone in town money, and is going into default on a number of his "can't miss investment" properties. Worse part is he dragged his family and relatives into the mess, creating a little empire based on buying real estate.

Tons of default notices, and the recently IRS placed a lien for $111k on one of his properties for failing to pay 2005 taxes.

"PUHLEEZE. This kind of socialist talk is ridiculous. You want to make 190X average employee money? Work your ass off and become a CEO yourself. Or start your own evil tech company and make 1000X your salary now.

You sound pathetic and like a whiny little bitch."

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You sure read a lot into Area 51's three line post. I think someone needs a hug.

HEY! It's the Ultimate Driving Machine! Well, at least the ones that don't have an automatic transmission. Note to you guys looking to pickup a used Bimmer: don't get a late model one with an auto tranny. BMW is having BIG problems with these things...

A BMW has a very low cost of ownership if you buy the lowest 3.0L model, take it european delivery and save a few grand, only pay $800 over invoice price, watch the options sheet (6 speed manual works fine folks), buy it for 5.0% from the credit union, and keep it for 6 years. In fact, the cost of doing that is equal to leasing two Toyota Camrys back to back for three years each. Ask me how I know.

Like with housing, don't do it unless it makes financial sense on a spreadsheet with realistic assumptions.

Shocking note for you car buyers: leasing is the dumbest way to buy a car. If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it - period. And please spare me the mathematically moronic arguments in favor of leasing, especially the one about "...getting more car for the money..."

A Camry doesn't even compare to a BMW. Even a fully loaded Camry can't carry a 325i's jockstrap. It's a completely different feel. It's much quieter, smoother, more solid and much better handling. BMW's are fun cars to drive. Toyotas and Hondas are practical cars.

I usually always buy my cars but leased my last one. I did this because I needed a car at the time. However I knew all this was coming and wanted to hand them the keys in 3 years and buy the Porshe toy from an idiot homedebtor.

Listings have soared on Ebay on some of my favorite categories, but so have the starting prices. Seems that the FB's are holding out for the "price that they deserve" for their not-needed bling just like their "not able to pay for" McMansions!

>> +++++Leasing can be a great deal. All depends on the lease. I leased an Audi A4 for $279 a month, 24 months with $400 down. Total cost for 2 years of ownership was $7096.

Had I bought it for $34K which is what the "selling" price for the lease was, depreciation over the first 2 years would have been at least $10K.

>> And on top of that my $34K that would have been used to buy the car earned me about 10% a year invested, meaning about the entire cost of my lease was paid via that investment.

Also instead of paying sales tax on the full price of the car, I only paid tax on the lease potion, saving an extra $2K right there.

Saying leasing is the dumbest way to buy a car only shows how financially slow you are.

Wise up.<< +++++

You sir, are the perfect idiot I was talking about. Funny how after all your mathematical gymnastics, you forgot to mention the part about what happens when the lease is up. I don't care how you paid for it - you paid, the lease is up, and now you don't have a car. Or maybe you do - because you went and leased another one.

Anyone who strongly recommends 'FLEECING'..ughh I mean LEASING probanly also signed up for the 50 year Interest Only Option ARM and sucked the HELOC for another 100k after signing IN LATE 2006. Let us know when the 20 inch rims and granite tops are on eBay and craigslist douche bag!

Loaded V6 Camry with carpet seats versus the bulletproof BMW 3.0L inline six, one of Ward's 10 Best Engines in the world. The Camry is a good car for an average person who doesn't care about cars, the same way the Price Club/BJ's Wholesale/Sam's Club sells jeans for people who don't care about fashion. But if pushing on the gas pedal triggers your brain to release dopamine, then a $30k BMW will blow your mind. So will a $60k BMW, but then you probably need to study up on "marginal utility".

a $30K will not blow my mind. you have swallowed the card&driver kool-aid too much my friend. 3 series bmws are a joke. they were only introduced to tap into the $30K millionaire market and kudos to bmws for awesome brand mgmt that every 25 year old urban hipster doofus wants one.

You sir, are the perfect idiot I was talking about. Funny how after all your mathematical gymnastics, you forgot to mention the part about what happens when the lease is up. I don't care how you paid for it - you paid, the lease is up, and now you don't have a car. Or maybe you do - because you went and leased another one.

June 21, 2007 5:26 PM

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What happens after 2 years of owning a car? Why you have a car that is worth 30% less than what you paid for it. Either you lease and you pay 30% of the price or you buy and lose 30% of the price through depreciation. Either way it costs you the same amount to drive that car. Except that with buying you've paid sales tax on 100% of the car vs. only paying sales tax on 30% with a lease.

You sir are truly an idiot if you can't understand such a simple concept.