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Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

We need his defense. There are times when we need to slow it down. JO can be utilized then as well as in the running game.

I strongly agree. Getting JO back and playing somewhere in the ballpark of his best, without expectations of his game from 4-5 years ago returning, will make the team even better. Maybe they are a .500-.520 team now and he makes them a .550 team. He allows the defense to spread out and defend away from the paint more, he cleans up problems created on the outside by Tins or Dun or Troy. And oh by the way, he draws doubles for a reason and that means defensive motion and holes to cut through for easy scores, or open jumpers on the weakside.

"O'Neal isn't concerning himself with the future, except to deliver a message to critics who insist his career is declining.
"I'm not going to be broken down," he said. "Do I believe I'm going to return to my form? Absolutely. I truly believe I'm going to return to my level.""

--------------------------------------------------------------------

This illustrates how sadly delusional JO is. I don't think he gets it. His PERSONAL "level" is not important. It's not about HIM. Its about the team and how many games they win. If he returns and averages 6 points and 3 rebounds, but the team wins every game, then this would bea GREAT success.

If he returns and averages 20 and 10, and the team loses 2/3 of their games, then this is a great FAILURE. But I don't think JO would see it that way.

Because Duncan would be happy playing poorly and unable to contribute to the TEAM in the manner he currently does. Because Reggie caught in a 10 game slump of 25% from 3 wouldn't say "I think I can get back to my level, it's just a slump".

Holy freaking insane bias, when in the hell did it become a bad thing for a player to want to be at his top level. How does that hurt the team??? He didn't say "gets mine" or "put up my numbers" or "get me my touches fools". He said he wants to be at his level.

By the way, so do the Pacers, his teammates, JOB and any decent, rational Pacer fans. You'd trade JO for Bynum or Duncan or whatever...why? To get a guy that can play "at that level".

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

I'm watching ESPN and in the ticker at the bottom they show the game tonight and then right after the stat "Pacers 3-7 with O'Neal 5-1 without him"
People are noticing what we are. I think a healthy O'Neal makes us much better. If he's not 100% then he probably is hurting us to an extent. All of us see his defense and nobody should question that. We are taking a lot of quick shots this year with the new offense.

Two of our losses (Lakers,Toronto) were because both teams shot the lights out from the perimeter. I can't blame those on O'Neal. Every year you have games in which another team shoots great and unless you do also your going to get beat. I believe without O'Neal we still lose those games. Against Washington (2nd time) they were fired up because we had just beat them and they had lost about 6 in a row at home and were getting boo'ed, they played pretty well. Another loss was against the mighty Celtics where Pierce went off, the first game against Denver we scored 74pts in the first half and JO played in that game then we looked like a NBA D-league team in the 2nd half.

I think this with and without O'Neal record is over rated right now.

Last edited by aceace; 11-30-2007 at 04:44 PM.
Reason: correction

"He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

overrated? you can't be serious. We are what 8-8? that's not overrated. I think this team can make a serious push for the playoffs if JO can come back healthy. I like our chances in a series vs anyone except the celtics...so let's get it!
this team gels and we might make something special of this season...(just maybe)

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Getting JO back and playing somewhere in the ballpark of his best, without expectations of his game from 4-5 years ago returning, will make the team even better. Maybe they are a .500-.520 team now and he makes them a .550 team.

Now wait a minute. You're telling me, we're paying JO a huge salary, bestowing upon him the cloak that has "The Man" and "The Franchise" stitched on it, and making him the face of this team, all for 4 wins?

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

overrated? you can't be serious. We are what 8-8? that's not overrated. I think this team can make a serious push for the playoffs if JO can come back healthy. I like our chances in a series vs anyone except the celtics...so let's get it!
this team gels and we might make something special of this season...(just maybe)

What I meant by over rated was people making a big deal of the fact that we are 5-1 without O'Neal and 3-7 with him. I didn't mean the team was over rated. I would have hard time believing O'Neal makes us worse.

"He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

JO just needs to sit out until he's 100% without any doubt at all. Then, he can try to integrate into the style of ball the team has been playing. If he cannot, or the team declines, then the writing is on the wall.

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

****cough****Tinsley***cough***
I strongly agree. Getting JO back and playing somewhere in the ballpark of his best, without expectations of his game from 4-5 years ago returning, will make the team even better. Maybe they are a .500-.520 team now and he makes them a .550 team. He allows the defense to spread out and defend away from the paint more, he cleans up problems created on the outside by Tins or Dun or Troy. And oh by the way, he draws doubles for a reason and that means defensive motion and holes to cut through for easy scores, or open jumpers on the weakside.

Seth....although his defense would be much needed......assuming that he is healthy....should we run the offense through him as the #1 scoring option as JO'B suggests if he continues to take low-percentage jumpshots ( as opposed to high-percentage "close to the basket" shots)?

Specifically...how do you envision using him in the offense?

Like many here on PD...I am of the belief that if JONeal focuses more on rebounding, defending and he can be an efficient scoring option on the floor ( as in taking high-percentage shots that he can make in the low-post rather then the low-percentage mid-range jumpers that he can miss ) that he would be able to fit into the offense/defense.

IMHO...that is basically what Foster and Harrison have been doing and how the offense has been running......our Big Men on the floor ( outside of Murphy ) rebound and control the paint and have only been taking shots that can easily hit......otherwise they defer the offense and the scoring comes from the Guard/SF positions.

That's one of the reasons why I think that JO'B thinks that there should be no difference if we take out Foster / Harrison and insert JONeal. Assuming that JONeal is healthy, he can do everything that Foster and Harrison can do. The only question is whether he can be efficient on the offensive end when he gets the ball.

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

I'm nowhere near as smart as Seth, but I'd like to see Jermaine with a 3-second rule of his own. He's always been at his best when he makes quick moves. He's got good vision and makes good quick reads, so I'd love to see a situation where he's allowed to post up if he can shoot within 3 seconds.

EDIT: And Jermaine just did exactly that... got the ball and made the quick spin instead of waiting for the D to set.

EDIT 2: Three straight makes from Jermaine, all on quick moves. He got the ball and made his move within 3 seconds.

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

I'm nowhere near as smart as Seth, but I'd like to see Jermaine with a 3-second rule of his own. He's always been at his best when he makes quick moves. He's got good vision and makes good quick reads, so I'd love to see a situation where he's allowed to post up if he can shoot within 3 seconds.

EDIT: And Jermaine just did exactly that... got the ball and made the quick spin instead of waiting for the D to set.

EDIT 2: Three straight makes from Jermaine, all on quick moves. He got the ball and made his move within 3 seconds.

I said this last season, I wish J.O. would watch tape of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in the post during the showtime era of the Lakers.

Even though the Lakers ran all of the time, they still went to Kareem in the post early and often. However if you watch Kareem you will see the guy never held the ball for more than 2-3 seconds and often times not even that long. He either went fast to the skyhook or he threw off, either way he rarely got a chance to be double teamed.

Also I agree, I think J.O. did make faster decisions for the most part all night long. There were only a couple of times that I thought he took to long and even then wasn't as long as he used to.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

I said this last season, I wish J.O. would watch tape of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in the post during the showtime era of the Lakers.

Even though the Lakers ran all of the time, they still went to Kareem in the post early and often. However if you watch Kareem you will see the guy never held the ball for more than 2-3 seconds and often times not even that long. He either went fast to the skyhook or he threw off, either way he rarely got a chance to be double teamed.

Also I agree, I think J.O. did make faster decisions for the most part all night long. There were only a couple of times that I thought he took to long and even then wasn't as long as he used to.

I almost wondered if Obie had been working on it as a team, because once JO came out then David posted on the right block (same place JO did) and made an immediate move (missed). Then Trophy did the same thing three times in a row: get position, get the ball, immediate move.

I saw a few (especially late in the game) where he took too long. Even his quick moves could probably be a split-second quicker. But the quicker he was, the more effective he was. I don't know why he went back to last year's form late in the game... early on he was blowing by his defender at will. That's all I want to see, and what I wanted last year. Putting the ball in the post doesn't have to be an exercise in waiting... you should post, get the ball, then make a move or pass right away (before the D gets set up).

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

I almost wondered if Obie had been working on it as a team, because once JO came out then David posted on the right block (same place JO did) and made an immediate move (missed). Then Trophy did the same thing three times in a row: get position, get the ball, immediate move.

I saw a few (especially late in the game) where he took too long. Even his quick moves could probably be a split-second quicker. But the quicker he was, the more effective he was. I don't know why he went back to last year's form late in the game... early on he was blowing by his defender at will. That's all I want to see, and what I wanted last year. Putting the ball in the post doesn't have to be an exercise in waiting... you should post, get the ball, then make a move or pass right away (before the D gets set up).

Maybe part of it is mental and physical. It sounds like if he had his explosiveness in the post that he could post his player alot quicker and score in the time alotted. But if his legs just aren't there yet...and he doesn't have the explosiveness that he is used to...maybe he falls back into old routines ( like what he was used to under Carlisle ), does what he is accustomed to and takes longer to either score or make some move.

Hopefully this is just a matter of practice and getting used to JO'Bs offense if there is an "unofficial" rule that the players on the court should not hold the ball for an extended period of time.

BTW....for those that have a lot of time and recorded the game.....someone should time how long the average time each player holds the ball to see if JONeal does hold it longer then the rest. I'm not suggesting that JONeal dominates the ball cuz he is selfish........but that this maybe something that he has "learned" under Carlisle ( since the offense completely ran through him ) that he will likely have to "unlearn" under JO'Bs offense.