Most politicians are intelligent, educated people. They know the geological basics of our planets history. But they also know the very big, very vocal fundamentalist contributors to their campaigns do not want to hear about geological science.

Frederick:Most politicians are intelligent, educated people. They know the geological basics of our planets history. But they also know the very big, very vocal fundamentalist contributors to their campaigns do not want to hear about geological science.

Ummmm... no.

MOST politicians are no more educated, intelligent, or moral than the general populace, and often significantly less so. They go to church and they believe, just like other Americans. Its not an act, for most of them.

I find it very frightening indeed that people who believe that they can communicate telepathically with an invisible, omnipotent being. Seriously - if they can suspend reason that much, their capacity for self-delusion is inestimable.

Benevolent Misanthrope:MOST politicians are no more educated, intelligent, or moral than the general populace, and often significantly less so. They go to church and they believe, just like other Americans. Its not an act, for most of them.

I find it very frightening indeed that people who believe that they can communicate telepathically with an invisible, omnipotent being. Seriously - if they can suspend reason that much, their capacity for self-delusion is inestimable.

Benevolent Misanthrope:Frederick: Most politicians are intelligent, educated people. They know the geological basics of our planets history. But they also know the very big, very vocal fundamentalist contributors to their campaigns do not want to hear about geological science.

Ummmm... no.

MOST politicians are no more educated, intelligent, or moral than the general populace, and often significantly less so. They go to church and they believe, just like other Americans. Its not an act, for most of them.

I find it very frightening indeed that people who believe that they can communicate telepathically with an invisible, omnipotent being. Seriously - if they can suspend reason that much, their capacity for self-delusion is inestimable.

Well, I certainly didnt mention morality -I know better than that. The US has an approximate rate of 40% for college degrees among 25+ yo. I havent verified it, but I'd imagine that more than 40% of US politicians have college degrees. That speaks to education and vicariously intelligence (I know college degree and intelligence arent absolutely synonymous).

The point I was trying to make is that politicians likely intentionally misrepresent themselves to appeal to their base. George W Bush was not an observant, practicing Christian but represented himself that way securing the Evangelical vote to win two presidencies.

Benevolent Misanthrope:MOST politicians are no more educated, intelligent, or moral than the general populace, and often significantly less so. They go to church and they believe, just like other Americans. Its not an act, for most of them.

I disagree. MOST politicians are actually more educated and intelligent than the general populace. They're not smarter than everybody; but, they're smarter than most.

But, they're also FAR LESS moral...which is why they say such stupid things: they're pandering to the (very stupid) masses.

/at least in Washington//worked in government there for a couple of years///that town is FULL of well-educated people saying ridiculously stupid things. On purpose.

Frederick:Well, I certainly didnt mention morality -I know better than that. The US has an approximate rate of 40% for college degrees among 25+ yo. I havent verified it, but I'd imagine that more than 40% of US politicians have college degrees. That speaks to education and vicariously intelligence (I know college degree and intelligence arent absolutely synonymous).

But what sort of education? You can get a degree in Law or or Political Science without learning a lick of actual science, particularly if you went to a Christian university. More disturbing, apparently people are getting medical degrees without learning any actual science.

Few things abiut America are more painful to me than that many of our national leaders either hold, or pretend to hold, medieval mindsets, and help to craft national policy based on those mindsets. They should be laughed off the stage; instead they are lionized as champions of religious freedom.

In Rubio's "defense," it doesn't matter what he believes. It only matters, to him, what other Republicans thinks he believes. If he were to give any non-young earth creationist answer he risks being declared a RINO and would face a primary challenge and less funds. It's just more in the interest to a Republican to be super vague if not actually stupid in regards to science.

Ok... the Bible says the world was created in 6 days. Are these consecutive days? If I start painting my house on Sunday, go to work all week, and then finish the house on Saturday... is that 2 days of painting, or 6 days?

Could God have created the stuff on Day 1, and then, oh... had a nap for 1.2 billion years?

I don't mind people being religious- it's when they believe that 1. Others can't be moral without religion, and 2. Try to cram it down other people's throats. Want to believe the earth is 6000 years old? Go right ahead- just don't pass any laws saying that others have to learn about it in school. But ignorant people tend to be the most insecure in their beliefs, otherwise they wouldn't care what others believed.

wippit:Ok... the Bible says the world was created in 6 days. Are these consecutive days? If I start painting my house on Sunday, go to work all week, and then finish the house on Saturday... is that 2 days of painting, or 6 days?

Could God have created the stuff on Day 1, and then, oh... had a nap for 1.2 billion years?

Then specifying a day of rest afterwards makes no sense. If you want to tie Genesis to reality, your best bet is that the days aren't literal days but arbitrary periods of time that represent 7 eras.

wippit:Ok... the Bible says the world was created in 6 days. Are these consecutive days? If I start painting my house on Sunday, go to work all week, and then finish the house on Saturday... is that 2 days of painting, or 6 days?

Could God have created the stuff on Day 1, and then, oh... had a nap for 1.2 billion years?

Or maybe, just maybe, twisting the interpretation of a two-thousand-year-old goat-herder mythology to fit current observation is a meaningless task.

Ironically, the state of Texas is pretty heavily invested in geology. If the creationist geologists are right and established geology is wrong, some creationists could make a killing in the petroleum exploration business, finding oil with better accuracy based on their understanding of how oil deposits were really formed. For some reason, that does not appear to be the case. Instead, creationists who go to work in the oil industry tend to suffer a crisis of faith: Link

We should ask them, how do we determine the age of the Earth? Radiometric dating, or the old testament? Before answering: do you banish your wife to the desert while she's menstruating? Or do you think only part of the OT is the inspired word of god, and the rest you can ignore?

If you said radiometric dating, which scientist uses that to come up with 9000 years? Or anything less than at least 2.8 billion years? We can use a good laugh.

Benevolent Misanthrope:Frederick: Most politicians are intelligent, educated people. They know the geological basics of our planets history. But they also know the very big, very vocal fundamentalist contributors to their campaigns do not want to hear about geological science.

Ummmm... no.

MOST politicians are no more educated, intelligent, or moral than the general populace, and often significantly less so. They go to church and they believe, just like other Americans. Its not an act, for most of them.

I find it very frightening indeed that people who believe that they can communicate telepathically with an invisible, omnipotent being. Seriously - if they can suspend reason that much, their capacity for self-delusion is inestimable.

Hard to disagree with this in the general sense. Then again, I don't have a hard time separating my beliefs (God exists, Jesus rose from the dead, etc.) from what I know (the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, evolution is real, etc.). Belief for me recognizes there's little to no substantial proof.

wippit:Ok... the Bible says the world was created in 6 days. Are these consecutive days? If I start painting my house on Sunday, go to work all week, and then finish the house on Saturday... is that 2 days of painting, or 6 days?

Could God have created the stuff on Day 1, and then, oh... had a nap for 1.2 billion years?

I hate this type of argument. Why not just lead in with the biblical passage "2nd Peter 3:8" and say "A day is like a thousand years" and claim that it isn't a "day" per se, but a period of time and the bible is only using the word "day" as a general period of measurement?

My high school chemistry teacher used to say stuff like that (yes, it was a Catholic school). He used to say "Sure, evolution is the way life developed. But who CAUSED that evolution?" The issue here is that suddenly the creation story is all symbolism and no fact. But he still expected us to believe the "great flood" was literal. And so is the idea of heaven and hell-- they are actual places we will go to. Where does the goal post finally come to rest?

enry:Then again, I don't have a hard time separating my beliefs (God exists, Jesus rose from the dead, etc.) from what I know (the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, evolution is real, etc.). Belief for me recognizes there's little to no substantial proof.

If it's your belief that "God exists, Jesus rose from the dead," why do you believe it?

This is a serious question, by the way. I'm not out to argue with you about your beliefs. I'm just curious as to why you hold them.

LouDobbsAwaaaay:wippit: Ok... the Bible says the world was created in 6 days. Are these consecutive days? If I start painting my house on Sunday, go to work all week, and then finish the house on Saturday... is that 2 days of painting, or 6 days?

Could God have created the stuff on Day 1, and then, oh... had a nap for 1.2 billion years?

Or maybe, just maybe, twisting the interpretation of a two-thousand-year-old goat-herder mythology to fit current observation is a meaningless task.

It's meaningless to try to get people to accept a 4 billion year old earth, in a way they will accept?

WinoRhino:wippit: Ok... the Bible says the world was created in 6 days. Are these consecutive days? If I start painting my house on Sunday, go to work all week, and then finish the house on Saturday... is that 2 days of painting, or 6 days?

Could God have created the stuff on Day 1, and then, oh... had a nap for 1.2 billion years?

I hate this type of argument. Why not just lead in with the biblical passage "2nd Peter 3:8" and say "A day is like a thousand years" and claim that it isn't a "day" per se, but a period of time and the bible is only using the word "day" as a general period of measurement?

My high school chemistry teacher used to say stuff like that (yes, it was a Catholic school). He used to say "Sure, evolution is the way life developed. But who CAUSED that evolution?" The issue here is that suddenly the creation story is all symbolism and no fact. But he still expected us to believe the "great flood" was literal. And so is the idea of heaven and hell-- they are actual places we will go to. Where does the goal post finally come to rest?

You can either believe its all allegory or you can accept science and reserve God for the unexplained, which unfortunately for the believer means an ever-shrinking god.

WinoRhino:wippit: Ok... the Bible says the world was created in 6 days. Are these consecutive days? If I start painting my house on Sunday, go to work all week, and then finish the house on Saturday... is that 2 days of painting, or 6 days?

Could God have created the stuff on Day 1, and then, oh... had a nap for 1.2 billion years?

I hate this type of argument. Why not just lead in with the biblical passage "2nd Peter 3:8" and say "A day is like a thousand years" and claim that it isn't a "day" per se, but a period of time and the bible is only using the word "day" as a general period of measurement?

Because they will take a literal 1000 years per day, which only makes the earth 10,000 years old.

Benevolent Misanthrope:I find it very frightening indeed that people who believe that they can communicate telepathically with an invisible, omnipotent being. Seriously - if they can suspend reason that much, their capacity for self-delusion is inestimable.

U.S. politicians make decisions concerning global warming, pollution and whether or not to clean particularly bad sites up, NASA, the National Science Foundation, the National Institute for Standards and Technology, The National Institutes of Health, the department of Energy, the department of heath and human services, the patent office, DARPA, etc. etc.

If the person is a scientifically illiterate dumbass, they has no business running for national office.

keylock71:I love that some of these clowns think religious dogma and creation myths should be treated as equal to scientific theories based on research and observation.

The guy who said the big bang theory is a lie straight from the pit of hell sat on the science committee in congress. As an actual scientist that is outrageous and offensive to me. It is like the S.A. in U.S.A stands for Saudi Arabia.

Pochas:The guy who said the big bang theory is a lie straight from the pit of hell sat on the science committee in congress. As an actual scientist that is outrageous and offensive to me. It is like the S.A. in U.S.A stands for Saudi Arabia.

Except for Saudi Arabia being a Muslim country, and Muslims believe in the Big Bang.

keylock71:I love that some of these clowns think religious dogma and creation myths should be treated as equal to scientific theories based on research and observation.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only Farker who's worked in government (although, I can't possibly be).

Politicians -- and, I'm saying this after observing them up close -- don't care about religious dogma or creation myths. And, they don't care about scientific theories. The vast majority of them care only about their own power and influence. Many will say the most nonsensical, bizarre, outlandish, absurd things if they think the public wants to hear it. The nature of politics naturally attracts egomaniacs and snake oil salesmen.

You want to know what a politician really thinks? Wait till he's retired. Or, wait till some tragedy brings the meaning of life into focus for him (see Lee Atwater). Then, you might get the truth.