That said, they haven't bothered to acknowledge/realize that Alex has been saddled with injures over the last two years and that Maia has gone through a major spurt over the same period (it could be the growth spurt may have caused the injury). Hard to do a whole lot when you're not training at 100 percent. So them deciding to withdraw at SLC with a tweaked neck didn't surprise me in the least. After going through all those injuries over the years, I wouldn't blame them for wanting to take precaution.

That is an excellent point that applies to a lot of skaters. If you have nagging injuries that compromise your preparation, it could be a very wise choice to skip a minor beginning-of-the-season competition even if you are not flat in bed at the time of the event. Even Yuna Kim is playing it safe and taking care of her body in the early going. There will be time enough in February to throw caution to the winds and skate like there's no tomorrow, injured or not.

I used to be in a poetry group where we had very similar arguments. There was a small group of extremely vocal people who thought ANY criticism was a personal attack on an individual and that "nice" was the cardinal virtue. What eventually happened was that people who were serious about creating quality work, who WELCOMED straightforward criticism, got fed up and left. I went back recently and started reading the results. Oh, everyone was very "nice" to each other and seemed almost apologetic to offer ANY criticism that was not glowing praise. But the work itself was just mediocre. Some of it was just plain bad writing. But hey--it was all very "nice."

I am a big fan of both Voir and Marlie. But let's face it, as interview subjects Marlie are the equivalent of tapioca pudding. And I'm sure they are NOT like that in day-to-day life. But they are very savvy about playing the media game. And the media game is puff pieces and "inspirational" stories. And one big yawn. Is it any surprise that the single event that took figure skating from very popular to one of the most popular sports in the west was the Whack Attack on Nancy Kerrigan? And that once figure skating went back to nothing but puff pieces and "inspirational" stories and prizes! prizes for everyone! every week! it killed off that popularity? Give me a Scott Moir at his loose cannon best any day. He may infuriate the hell out of you, but you know he is not going to hide behind puffery and media gameplaying. In fact, I would LOVE if he and Tessa go on TSL after they retire. And then all four of them just let it rip.

One thing you can say for Dave and Jenny--you'll never be bored. But people tend to forget just how acerbic dear Uncle Dick Button could be. If I remember correctly, he once compared Surya Bonaly's free leg in a spin to a sausage. Lord knows the weeks of vitriolic hysteria that comment would provoke on skating boards if it were made now. And the thing is, Uncle Dick was right (but then he usually was).

Here's the thing, TSL is capable of giving good and meaningful constructive criticism. The one that comes to mind, since we're talking about the Shibs, is the one they gave during their analysis of Worlds. They pointed out that Chock and Bates great strength is that Bates is a great stem for Chock's flower. And that with the Shibs, that same dynamic ins't really in place. Maia is absolutely gorgeous and beautiful, yet she isn't presented or stands out in their dances.

I'm a huge Shibs fan (as people know pretty well here), but that was a food of thought that made me go back and watch their programs. It made me appreciate Chock and Bates a whole lot more.

I think there's a wide spectrum between sugar-coated PR and snarky, character assassinations.

Here's the thing, TSL is capable of giving good and meaningful constructive criticism. The one that comes to mind, since we're talking about the Shibs, is the one they gave during their analysis of Worlds. They pointed out that Chock and Bates great strength is that Bates is a great stem for Chock's flower. And that with the Shibs, that same dynamic ins't really in place. Maia is absolutely gorgeous and beautiful, yet she isn't presented or stands out in their dances.

I'm a huge Shibs fan (as people know pretty well here), but that was a food of thought that made me go back and watch their programs. It made me appreciate Chock and Bates a whole lot more.

I think there's a wide spectrum between sugar-coated PR and snarky, character assassinations.

Hey Mrs P. Hmm, I've been sitting here for a few minutes thinking how to respond to what you're saying. Yes there is a wide spectrum between puffery and bitchery. I think the real problem is that Mr Lease let his viscera overwhelm his professionalism. Which, as a gay man, I can completely understand. My first reaction to hearing what Charlie White had to say was, it sure is easy from the safely of being several thousand miles away to tell someone whose country is not only trying everything it can to make him/her invisible but turning a blind eye to assault and battery that it is a matter of "semantics" (well that's the polite way to explain my reaction at any extent!). I don't disagree with the essential content of what he was saying--Marlie's PR is more canned than tuna, which will ultimately make them unrelatable; Ashley Wagner did herself a whopping big favor this summer by letting people see more of her genuine self in interviews (or as he put it, "all anyone wants is for these people is to be themselves"--absolutely!); people prefer Johnny Weir as a public figure to Evan because Johnny is more genuine and true-to-himself. I think all that is spot on. But mimicking Meryl's voice is just over the top. I don't think I would go so far as to call it a character assassination, but it is certainly less than professional.

Yes, TSL is entitled to their opinions. BUT … when they used their interview vehicles to put their guests in uncomfortable scenario, and paint them as deficient in character, it is unprofessional. These skaters are amateur athletes. They are not paid professionals and politicians. Most of them are supported by their parents and families in their training. Who would want to subject their daughters and sons to such bullying?

Here's the thing. Every media figure has the right to their own opinion. But there's a line you don't cross if you want to be respected in the field and have people agree to do interviews with you. Journalists like Diane Sawyer, or Matt Lauer have covered controversial topics. They could word a disagreement respectfully and still be opinionated.

TSL have not paid their dues, so to speak. Phil Hersh can be jerky sometimes, but at least he is a career journalist for an actual newspaper. If TSL wants to be at that level, then they need to play the industry game and become more respected before letting any insults fly. It's like a pop singer has to do what the label wants on their first album before getting the freedom to be more artistic.

At first, I thought Dave might be dragging Jenny down, but she has the choice to stay or leave and she has made the choice to stay. I am afraid it is making her look bad which is a shame this early in her career. I think she could have gone the classy way of Manley Woman and still done some really interesting interviews, by herself. In hindsight it might have seemed hilarious, wild and wacky to partner with Dave, but it's starting to get annoying now. When your show is causing this much controversy I don't believe it's a good thing.

And yes I do believe that there is a mob bullying skaters right now (not just Dave) that really needs to stop.

For that matter, Dave could watch the Classroom Champs episodes and discover that Meryl & Charlie have been working with kids in one of their classrooms on an anti-bullying campaign, something that may do more good for gay kids in the US ultimately than a one-time mouthing off about Putin & Russia.

Here's the thing. Every media figure has the right to their own opinion. But there's a line you don't cross if you want to be respected in the field and have people agree to do interviews with you. Journalists like Diane Sawyer, or Matt Lauer have covered controversial topics. They could word a disagreement respectfully and still be opinionated.

TSL have not paid their dues, so to speak. Phil Hersh can be jerky sometimes, but at least he is a career journalist for an actual newspaper. If TSL wants to be at that level, then they need to play the industry game and become more respected before letting any insults fly. It's like a pop singer has to do what the label wants on their first album before getting the freedom to be more artistic.

At first, I thought Dave might be dragging Jenny down, but she has the choice to stay or leave and she has made the choice to stay. I am afraid it is making her look bad which is a shame this early in her career. I think she could have gone the classy way of Manley Woman and still done some really interesting interviews, by herself. In hindsight it might have seemed hilarious, wild and wacky to partner with Dave, but it's starting to get annoying now. When your show is causing this much controversy I don't believe it's a good thing.

And yes I do believe that there is a mob bullying skaters right now (not just Dave) that really needs to stop.

Hey Mrs P. Hmm, I've been sitting here for a few minutes thinking how to respond to what you're saying. Yes there is a wide spectrum between puffery and bitchery. I think the real problem is that Mr Lease let his viscera overwhelm his professionalism. Which, as a gay man, I can completely understand. My first reaction to hearing what Charlie White had to say was, it sure is easy to tell someone whose country is not only trying everything it can to make him/her invisible but turning a blind eye to assault and battery that it is a matter of "semantics" from the safely of being several thousand miles away (well that's the polite way to explain my reaction at any extent!). I don't disagree with the essential content of what he was saying--Marlie's PR is more canned than tuna, which will ultimately make them unrelatable; Ashley Wagner did herself a whopping big favor this summer by letting people see more of her genuine self in interviews (or as he put it, "all anyone wants is for these people is to be themselves"--absolutely!); people prefer Johnny Weir as a public figure to Evan because Johnny is more genuine and true-to-himself. I think all that is spot on. But mimicking Meryl's voice is just over the top. I don't think I would go so far as to call it a character assassination, but it is certainly less than professional.

Regarding character assassination, I was speaking more of their backless claims regarding the Shibutanis (i.e. lying about the reasoning for their WD/claims that they bribed their way to good scores) and not so much the issue of Meryl.

The mocking of Meryl's voice was simply not professional.

Ashley and Meryl have very different personalities. Ashley has always been outgoing and outspoken. I remember how much flack she got in 2012 for stating that she was there to win, or something like that.

Meryl strikes to me as a more reserved person. But that doesn't mean she's unrelatable, it means how people relate to Meryl will be different than how people relate to Ashley.

Meryl has sort of that "Funny Girl" persona to me. She is humorous and funny in a very cerebral way. I mean, she did the freakin WORM during The Ice tour last summer. That cracks me up big time.

Then don't go to a media summit. It wasn't a personal question, it's about a relevant World issue. Meryl&Charlie's Olympic teammates can be put in prison in Russia, if they are seen "doing something gay". How do they feel about that? Give a real answer or don't attend to begin with.

I thought the media summit was about the Sochi Olympics, not all about the Russian law. Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by zschultz1986

See, the mocking was a bit much, I can agree with that. However, he didn't call her an idiot. He said she came off as an idiot, based on her answers. I know it may be a very slight difference, but it IS a difference. Maybe it was said in the emotion of talking about it, but I don't believe he was talking about her personally as a whole, but in response to the persona she gives off and the answers she gave.

Does anybody deserve to be mocked and to be called "came off as an idiot" just because he/she didn't get on your bandwagon?

Regarding character assassination, I was speaking more of their backless claims regarding the Shibutanis (i.e. lying about the reasoning for their WD/claims that they bribed their way to good scores) and not so much the issue of Meryl.

The mocking of Meryl's voice was simply not professional.

Ashley and Meryl have very different personalities. Ashley has always been outgoing and outspoken. I remember how much flack she got in 2012 for stating that she was there to win, or something like that.

Meryl strikes to me as a more reserved person. But that doesn't mean she's unrelatable, it means how people relate to Meryl will be different than how people relate to Ashley.

Meryl has sort of that "Funny Girl" persona to me. She is humorous and funny in a very cerebral way. I mean, she did the freakin WORM during The Ice tour last summer. That cracks me up big time.

Yeah, I'd be careful of insinuating ANYONE bribed their way to good scores. You do have a point. LOL!

But wouldn't it be nice if more of the MERYL DAVIS, WORM DANCING GAL came out in interviews rather than MERYL DAVIS, CANNED TUNA? That's what I mean that I'm sure in day to day life they're not at all like they come across in interviews.

Not so much about the issue at hand perhaps, but... I don't think anyone owes it to people to come out and be "personal" - some people are comfortable being all outgoing and so on - some are not. Be it actors, or athletes, or whoever. Their job is to do the best they can in their chosen vocation - not to entertain us in interviews or whatever. If they do, that is a fine bonus, to be sure, but not something we should be demanding of them. Some people are naturally more reserved or introverted. Or even shy. They may be comfortable "going all out" on stage, in a role portraying someone other than themselves, or out on the ice - or whatever - but not comfortable in interviews and with journalists.

This may, as I said, not necessarily be pertinent to the discussion at hand - but just generally how I feel on some things that have been touched upon.

A lot of skaters are very reserved and never say anything of significance. For many years, one such was Kristi Yamaguchi. She wasn't the most interesting interview, but I never thought of it as a reflection of her character. She would answer with platitudes in an almost singsong voice, as if trying to give the least possible information with the greatest possible politeness. But her skates spoke eloquently. I never found it hard to relate to her, and she's become more assured as she's grown older and more experienced. Likewise, Meryl seems like someone who wants to be thought of as a skater first and last and isn't particularly keen about sharing any more than her favorite color with the public. This means nothing in terms of how to judge her character.

Since we're using important world issues to evaluate skaters who have not chosen to weigh in on them, let me apply that technique to the TSL folks.

I'd like to know what David Lease has to say about the fact that the honeybee population is diminishing steeply and frighteningly. It's obviously due to some environmental poisoning, and since roughly one-third of America's agricultural production depends on honeybee pollination, we could be on the brink of a serious food shortage. (I'm not making this up or saying it as a joke. I've been following this story for a few years now.) This will affect people all over the country, and the fact that Lease has remained silent on it (and would probably laugh at me for bringing it up, but he'll feel the brunt of it just like everyone else real soon) might make me hazard a judgement as to his character. However, I'll be charitable.