Posted
by
CmdrTaco
on Wednesday July 19, 2006 @09:17AM
from the now-go-cry-about-the-price dept.

Roy van Rijn writes "According to Forbes, the Commercial Times reported that Taiwanese ASUSTeK Computer Inc. will be delivering PlayStation 3 consoles to Sony starting this month. The news comes amid concerns that Sony may not have enough Cell and RSX chips to meet production goals of 2 million units for launch. The report also states that, Hon Hai Precision Industry Co Ltd, also a Taiwanese company, will soon begin making the PlayStation 3 consoles for Sony too. Total monthly shipments from manufacturers are expected to be 200,000 units per month."

If you do the math you're probably thinking that means there will only be 1.6 million units ready to go by launch (assuming both Asustek and Hon Hai each hit 200k/mo.) The article goes on to state that the production will increase to two million units by October -- at least for Asustek.

The question is, will there be enough cell processors to stuff into these boxes with yields being so aweful [com.com]?

Me too. I was a bit intrigued when I first heard about the Revolution and the back catalog, but since it gained the final name of Wii and most notably the insane gameplay that'll come from the Wiimote, I'm almost certainly going to be picking one up. Even if just for being able to play my old classics without the requisite blow job [thinkgeek.com]. If it can help my golf game without the greens fees, so much the better.

Nah, the question is if there will be enough customers for it to make a difference.

Oh there will be enough. Perhaps not from the/. community, but I have talked to friends who own PS2s and will buy the PS3 because "its like the PS2 but better". Of course they have simply seen some screenshots (probably HD cut scenes) and assumed that it will be. I am pretty sure these guys in particular, are an accurate reflection of the major demographic of the PS3.

I agree wholeheartedly. Everyone that I speak to, my son included, is desperate to get one. I ask them why and it is just because it is the next in line after the PS2. Talk about the price and the fact that it is overpriced to get the Blu Ray into mainstream and they don't care, they just want a more powerful PS2 regardless. Sony got the market right when, unlike the rest, they provided backward compatability.I do not doubt that the PS3 will succeed but if they get it wrong will it be the end of the lin

If you do the math you're probably thinking that means there will only be 1.6 million units ready to go by launch

And if you believe slashdot, that'd be 1,599,998 too many and both who want it are idiots. I think it'll be more even than that - it has the brand name, tons of people have PS2 games, it has a HD-capable player built in and so on. Wii is probably very cool for the right games, but for some games a keyboard/mouse, gamepad, joystick or steering wheel is the best. Not every game is going to benefit

Did you actually get modded insightful for that nugget of joy? I guess some of the moderators actually thought that they would only sell 2 PS3s. I guess I'll take a karma hit from that aforementioned moderator, but that has to be the dumbest insightful mod I've seen to date.:P

Yes, but the Wii still has ports for the old school GC controllers, so if games just want to use standard controllers, they can do that. The controllers are already pretty cheap ($20 US), and will probably get cheaper once there's 2 systems that support them. So, for games that don't care about or don't need the new controller functionality, they can still use the old controllers.

Equally important, will the supply chain be able to deliver all of the parts in time? After all, what good is rapid manufacturing if you cannot deliver. I am sure that no matter what happens in terms of cell chips and the like, there will still be a shortage during launch. Perhaps the company wants it that way, as it might raise interest in the product.

The media will hype this as a good sign for Sony using the generic and technologically unaware phrases they always use:"Well Jim, the PS3, as Sony has named it, is flying off the shelves. They just can't keep them in stock. This next generation gaming console is moving straight from truck to customer."

That's not really true. That definitely was not the case with the XBox 360. Everyone was aware that the MS had problems producing the console in enough numbers. No one said that 360s were flying off the shelves.Developers were screaming. EA was about to have a a small calf and my studio was sitting back watching all the fuss, as we worked on our PS2 title, hoping that MS wouldn't stuff it up in the end.

So I think the same will apply for Sony. If they can't produce enough consoles, game developers like

Shortages are part and parcel of new product but I also expect that they are cynically engineered to ensure demand outstrips supply. If they have more boxes than they can sell, it makes the product look like it is selling badly. Therefore if you cut the stock to the bone, you can ensure lots of juicy headlines about fights breaking out between people trying to buy the last PS3.

Sony is not alone on this. Microsoft did it with the XBox 360, and no doubt Nintendo will too with theirs.

Four or five years ago I had the chance to visit one of the first few semiconductor foundries producing 12-inch wafers.

It was explained to me how yields are always pretty bad during the ramping up phase but once things get going the number of defects decrease dramatically. I don't recall the specific details or how long this phase lasts, but I'm not surprised that there would be problems leading up to actual production. That's kind of the point of this process, to identify as many problems as possible beforehand.

They may have problems early into the production run, but given the complexity of the PS3 I expect Sony will have numerous other issues to contend with beyond defective chips. I expect problems as bad, if not worse than the Xbox360's overheating power supply.

Actually alot of the production problems are nailed pre-production during the prototype and test phases. I work for a prototyping firm and they can get the process down well enough to predict manufacturability and failure rate. Of course, once the product hits a full production environment, it can be re-engineered further to make production yields higher and costs lower, but initially you nail the big bugs during prototyping.

One problem with that theory, and you are correct, is that IBM hasw been making cells for how long now? Is it two years already?

They had production Cell blades at CeBIT, probably before but I never saw them in the flesh. Either way, if production ramp is slower than 6 months, you have a serious design defect or it is new fab partner time.

Yeah they had the same goals for the PS2 at it's launch... and then the Emotion engine had yield problems. On top of the question of yields I wonder if the market is really as excited about this console as people are assuming it is.

Sure there are die-hard, rabid, Playstation fanatics who would still buy one if the price was your first born. But if you look at the fact that Sony has always had lame launch titles, the PSP's consumer excitement around it's launch could be described as "apathetic" with the d

Y'know, I can't refute your logic, but it is still flawed. What people say, and what people do, are two separate things. Plus, you're assuming that initial production problems will continue for the life of the product.

In addition, you cite the PS2 for two major problems the PS3 is facing: Initial production problems and low quality launch titles. The problem with using that logic is that you are making a comparison to one of the most successful consoles on the market. A console that is still outselling the 360.

If the PS3 is facing doom, why isn't there a sharp spike in 360 sales? Everyone who thinks the PS3 is crap but wants power should be flocking to Microsoft's banner. I have no current sales figures at hand, but the last time I looked I didn't see the 360 even beating the last generation console.

But as I said earlier, I cannot refute your post. Everything you say may come to pass and the PS3 will dive like Enron stock. But I think you base your conclusion on insufficient evidence.

Whether it is too expensive really depends on what youthink you're getting for your money. A console that canplay the entire back catalog of PS1 and PS2 games, inaddition to new games made specifically for it certainlyhas appeal to people like me who have older consolesthat will need to be replaced in order to play thegame library they've acquired over the years and who likepicking up old games for a couple of bucks (lots of oldergames are more fun that these pretty new games).If I decide that a $600 PS3 ha

Absolutely right. The average age of Playstation owners hit 21+ sometime in the mid-late 1990s. The average subscriber of "Official Playstation Magazine" is 24. For these people, a $100-$200 difference in initial launch price isn't going to be a dealbreaker. What will decide the fate of the console is whether it has the games people want to play. Microsoft's biggest problem is that their library isn't up to snuff. They had the same 1-year headstart in this generation that the PS2 had on the last generation.

I suspect there are lots of people like me who have decent
jobs and are willing to pay for the product they want rather
than settle for a cheaper product that isn't what they want.

I guess we'll have to wait and see just how large that market is. I look at PCs. From the early 80s to the late 90s, PC technology advanced rapidly, but the average price of a computer stayed high (say $2400?). There was lots of new technology, and people were willing to pay for it. Then, in the late 90s, something funny ha

The only indicator I see is that the PS2 is still, in June, outselling the XBox360.

Isn't that a bad sign for BOTH companies? Think about it: at this point, Sony wants people to be waiting for the PS3 ship, and buying one of those. Instead, they're buying their soon-to-be-out-of-date console in apparently pretty large numbers. Are those same people really going to turn around and buy a PS3 in six months? I seriously doubt it. And with such a lively interest in games for the PS2, how many developers are go

That was sorta my thought, at first, but then I started thinking about it like this: Sony is making a profit on the PS2, or at least breaking even, at this point. The only reason to create a new console is to attempt to get more people to buy your consoles, when the older one starts flagging. The PS2 is doing quite well right now, though, so many Sony's plan for the PS3 is for it to be gradually adopted, thus furthering the life of the cheaper, but more profitable PS2. If PS2 sales start to drop, it's only

If the PS3 is facing doom, why isn't there a sharp spike in 360 sales?

Because you're making the same flawed assumption as millions (if not billions) of humans do for just about everything else - that there are only two sides and that one of them must "win".

It's human nature, and human laziness. The mind simplifies every situation to a binary true/false, yes/no, on/off, right/left, up/down, good/bad decision in order to keep from having to do analog comparisons requiring much deeper thought processes. So, in

Well the PS2 launched at the same price as the PS1: $300. In addition to that the PS2's only competition was the hanging by a thread Sega Dreamcast, which was following up one of the worst selling consoles in their history. MS wasn't even on the radar during the PS2 launch, and neither was Nintendo. PS2's only competition was the Dreamcast, a great console but poorly marketed, with little to no 3rd party support and following up one of the WORST selling consoles of the previous generation. Again again the PS2 wasn't expensive. It was the same price their previous console launched at, it wasn't surprising at all.

The PS3 doesn't have a market in their favor this time. Towards the end of the Xbox 1's life it was selling just as many units as the PS2 on a day to day basis, hardly a comparison to the brow-beating the Saturn got in comparison to the PS1.

As for the PS2 outselling the 360... need I remind you that the PS1 outsold the PS2 for the first year of the PS2's life, uptake on expensive new consoles is slow and it's expected that last gen consoles will still sell very well into the start of the following generation. I think it's actually impressive that the 360 is selling ALMOST AS MANY [gamasutra.com] units As the PS2 considering it's more then twice the price.

I'd have to disagree, the PS2 launched with one non-competitor (the dreamcast) and 2 distant non-competitors (the unproven Xbox from that crap company MS and Nintendo's un-inventive Gamecube). The PS3 by comparison has a very serious competitor with a head start in the (Xbox 360) and they also have another very serious contender with the Nintendo Wii...

I'm not saying the PS3 will fail, and I'm not saying it will fall under the weight of the 360 and Wii. I'm simply saying that with all the technical problems they're having with processor Yield and Blu-Ray etc. the Actual product desire might prove to be a bigger stumbling block for them, they wont be able to run away with the market uncontested like they did with the PS2:)

I wonder where people get the DS whooping PSP ass thing from. Fanboyism?

Software sales are a lot better for the DS than the PSP and the system clearly trounces the PSP in Japan (other territories don't have as much consistent sales data tracking). Overall they're equal in the US, the DS wins by a few million units in Japan (gap widening) and noone knows what it's like in Europe. The software sales are the strangest bit, the DS is getting overproportionally more software sales than the PSP (or at least it ge

Sure there are die-hard, rabid, Playstation fanatics who would still buy one if the price was your first born. But if you look at the fact that Sony has always had lame launch titles, the PSP's consumer excitement around it's launch could be described as "apathetic" with the die hard fans camping out for a product that didn't even sell out....

Its true that the DS is handily beating the PSP in sales, especially since the DS Lite launched; but apathetic is alittle strong. The PSP is selling about half as well as the DS. That's still something like 200k units per month.

Root kit lost a lot of fans...

Rootkit fiasco lost a lot of nerd fans. Jo Q Public still has no clue. They don't even know what a rootkit is.

... as did Sony's double talk arrogance and bad mouthing of their competition, and lets not forget the clear rip-offs of Nintendo's Wii-mote and Microsoft's Guide button,

Arrogance: check.

Wii rip-off: undecided. Its a natural progression, the tilt sensor they added, if you ask me. More likely this feature was bumped up in priority when Sony saw the impression the Wii remote made. I can see that one either way to be honest. This is sort of like saying that every single digital music player is ripping off the iPod.

MS 'guide' button: what are you talking about? I don't even know what this is. Hardly a feature that's touted as interesting, at any rate.

and perhaps most importantly THE PRICE.

Price is bad, I agree. Way bad in comparison to the other consoles, specifically. Of course, we don't actually know the final price yet.

Heck the reason for the high price was because of the Blu-Ray drive, and reviews thus far have shown that HD-DVD is stomping all over Blu-Ray.

So? Blu-ray has a max storage of 200 gigs, over six layers. The codec is irrelevant; you can write a Blu-ray disc with MPEG-2, or the awesome VC-1 codec, OR the 'even awesomer' AVC codec. HD-DVD can only use MS-approved codecs and by the way, that has DRM built-in to the wrapper. (H.264/AVC does not necessarily have this stipulation (weak praise I know), but ALL MS codecs will have to deal with this.)

Blu-Ray can't get good yields on dual layer discs and even single layer discs have yield problems forcing them to only be able to use 80% of it... ~20gig.

I've seen this mentioned nowhere, and your use of the word 'yields' for optical media is kind of suspect. Source?

Not to mention they're using the woefully outdated MPEG2 codec and most reviews have said that some of the movies DVD counterparts look better then the Blu-Ray versions..

Yeah you said that before, and its still completely wrong. Check yer facts jack.

Even early Blu-Ray players can only read single layer discs, so will the PS3 be stuck to only reading single layer discs as well? NOT GOOD FOR PS3 SALES particularly if Sony was banking on people buying it as a cheap Blu-Ray player. nobody wants another UMD movie format.

Pure speculation and unfounded at that. UMD is a different animal.

I think low yield might be the least of their problems. Every day I see more and more of the die-hard Playstation fans going from "of course I'm getting one" too "I'll wait and see" or in some cases "I decided to get an 360/Wii instead".

Feel free to get up from Slashdot and leave the PC for a little while, your impression might change.

Sure there are die-hard, rabid, Playstation fanatics who would still buy one if the price was your first born. But if you look at the fact that Sony has always had lame launch titles, the PSP's consumer excitement around it's launch could be described as "apathetic" with the die hard fans camping out for a product that didn't even sell out....

Its true that the DS is handily beating the PSP in sales, especially since the DS Lite launched; but apathetic is alittle strong. The PSP is selling about half as well as the DS. That's still something like 200k units per month.

Considering that the DS or sales numbers were not even brought into the discussion, where the hell did this come from? The OP was describing the consumer exitement about the PSP and the less then spectacular launch titles for the system, which after the die hard $ony fans had gotten theirs, dropped to apathetic. I don't know anyone that was excited about the PSP mainly due to the lackluster titles at launch.

Root kit lost a lot of fans...

Rootkit fiasco lost a lot of nerd fans. Jo Q Public still has no clue. They don't even know what a rootkit is.

That's funny... I get asked all the time by people who know that I am into computers about it. It was featured on the network news, CNN, MSNBC, etc. etc.

... as did Sony's double talk arrogance and bad mouthing of their competition, and lets not forget the clear rip-offs of Nintendo's Wii-mote and Microsoft's Guide button,

Arrogance: check.

Wii rip-off: undecided. Its a natural progression, the tilt sensor they added, if you ask me. More likely this feature was bumped up in priority when Sony saw the impression the Wii remote made. I can see that one either way to be honest. This is sort of like saying that every single digital music player is ripping off the iPod.

MS 'guide' button: what are you talking about? I don't even know what this is. Hardly a feature that's touted as interesting, at any rate.

Natural progression? I think you hit the nail on the head, though. When $ony saw the impression that the Wii controller made, they made the feature a priority... it has nothing to do with saying digital music players are ripping off the i-pod. It's like another music player coming out with a click wheel.

and perhaps most importantly THE PRICE.

Price is bad, I agree. Way bad in comparison to the other consoles, specifically. Of course, we don't actually know the final price yet.

Ummm... where have you been? The price has been known for quite awhile now. $499 for the basic, $599 for upgraded system.

Heck the reason for the high price was because of the Blu-Ray drive, and reviews thus far have shown that HD-DVD is stomping all over Blu-Ray.
Really! I'd like to see that. Cite a source?

So? Blu-ray has a max storage of 200 gigs, over six layers. The codec is irrelevant; you can write a Blu-ray disc with MPEG-2, or the awesome VC-1 codec, OR the 'even awesomer' AVC codec. HD-DVD can only use MS-approved codecs and by the way, that has DRM built-in to the wrapper. (H.264/AVC does not necessarily have this stipulation (weak praise I know), but ALL MS codecs will have to deal with this.)

A six layer blu-ray disk has not been produced outside of the lab, and may be years (if ever) before it is able to be mass produced. Where do you come up with that hd-dvd can only use MS approved codecs? You are just spouting FUD now, as blue-ra

Ah, yes. Of course I am a 'fanboi', if I disagree with your conclusions.

Considering that the DS or sales numbers were not even brought into the discussion, where the hell did this come from? The OP was describing the consumer exitement about the PSP and the less then spectacular launch titles for the system, which after the die hard $ony fans had gotten theirs, dropped to apathetic. I don't know anyone that was excited about the PSP mainly due to the lackluster titles at launch.

Huh? Since when is excitement measured relative to it's competitors? This comment makes no sense.

Perhaps. It seems to me that these things don't ever launch in a vaccum, as it were. When a new console comes out, it is inevitably compared to other offerings as a value proposition. But I see what you mean. In the end, this is subjective. I know people who bought a PSP just for GTA; or a DS just for Advance Wars. So one could be honest and say they were excited about the

Glad to see that we could find some common ground here. In all actuality, I think that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are really trying too hard. While those people with neophilia [scotsman.com] are rushing out to buy both the players and the movies, I don't see the average person finding anything so 'wow' about them. Their DVD players will work just fine. In the current state of the technology, they won't really see that much of a difference. Heck, I am always one to jump on the new technology bandwagon, have a HDTV with HD

Definitely. I'm in the same boat as you; I have an HDMI-enabled HDTV, but am underwhelmed with the optical media. (Also an aging PS2, my third as well. Bad, bad lasers in those things. At least the 'slim' ones are more reliable, and don't sound like a leafblower.)

The way I see it playing out is: dual-laser pickup mechanism is developed; both formats receive a tepid response as standalone formats in the marketplace; downloads become more viable and compete with optical media; eventually whichever format is

Ummm, dude, I probably agree with you on every single one of your individual points, but you still come across as an asshole. Actually, if you read his post, it doesn't come across as fanboyish in the slightest, he takes a good step back from everything and surveys it fairly well. If anything, YOUR post comes across as anti-Sony fanboyish. I may agree a little more with your actual conclusions, but you could learn some communication skills from this guy. Oh, and spelling a company you don't like with a "$"

Yeah, reading back on my post, I guess I do come across as an asshole. Sorry about that, stressful day at work. And the whole $ony thing, it has to do with the rootkit... it hid the files using the $? After the M$ stuff, I thought that it was fitting. I agree, and even admit, to being an anti-sony fanboi fanboi. I just get tired of reading so much fud on both sides of the fence without anything backing it up.

I don't see the cause for the uncertainty as to what will happen with the PS3. Sure the Xbox360 has been out a while now, but nevertheless, there are many parallels with the PS2 launch.People seem to have short memory spans in recollecting how much the release price of the PS2 seemed when it came out, how limited the games were at the beginning, how it was probably a less powerful console than the Xbox, etc.

It's pretty much a direct replay. The PS3 will sell about the same numbers, it'll go well over in Jap

I apologize for not citing sources for the HD-DVD over Blu-Ray debate. I figured it was common [projectorcentral.com] knowledge [centredaily.com] at this point, what with the AV forums buzzing [avforums.com] about it.

The whole thing about Cell yields isn't that they're low (of course we expect them to be low when starting production) it's that its look like they'reFAR [theinquirer.net] LOWER [com.com] THEN EXPECTED [reed-electronics.com].

And since you asked, I don't have a link but IIRC the last cost estimated the Cell and RSX chips cost Sony ~$110 a piece. No idea about how the RSX yeilds are. I'd almost be more conserned about RAM yeilds though.

Your HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray "common knowledge" links are amazingly inaccurate. ("Common knowledge" is very often not "correct knowledge".) Blu-Ray and HD-DVD support *exactly* the same codecs, so image and sound quality is going to be *exactly* the same. Blu-Ray has a lot more content coming out for it, since twice as many studios are producing for it. And the PS3 will be cheaper than most HD-DVD players. By the end of this Christmas shopping season, I'd be surprised if HD-DVD has anyone still believing in

Don't let reason and sanity get in the way of bashing Sony...:-)Lets see now... 75% of the content providers are behind Blu-Ray. Only ONE content provider has backed HD-DVD.

Less than 100k units sold of HD-DVD.

6 Million (PS3) Blu-Ray players will be sold in 4 months.

The war is over guys Blu-Ray won. Now the only battle is between Blu-Ray and downloadable content, and seeing that most people don't have Gig to the household, it looks like Blu-Ray is here for a while.

The war is over guys Blu-Ray won. Now the only battle is between Blu-Ray and downloadable content, and seeing that most people don't have Gig to the household, it looks like Blu-Ray is here for a while.

Now, try saying it this way:

The war is over guys DVD-A[1] won. Now the only battle is between DVD-A and downloadable content, and seeing that most people don't have 100Mbit to the household, it looks like DVD-A is here for a while.

You see, most consumers seem to care a lot more about convenience than abo

Toshiba is loosing over $200 per unit now. When the PS3 hits the shelves the price difference between their player and a Blu-Ray will be $0.00. Oh and you will get a game machine with the Blu-Ray machine.

Blu-Ray hasn't seriously entered the market yet. When it does in November the war is over.

"Articles like the ones you cited, of course, are largely fueled by Microsoft money/fandom and anti-Sony propaganda, not reality."As the author of at least one of the articles you are picking on, I can say unequivocably that I have no particular love for MS, nor do they pay me, nor did I ever get anything from them other than a mouse/keyboard for review once.

You are dead wrong here, and resorting to ad homenim attacks only shows that you have no real arguement to rely on.

Thank you for the references. (although the 2nd link simply references the first, from projectorcentral.)

It's a fact that every Blu Ray movie released so far is on a single layer disc, and that the currently available players are only able to read single layer discs. It's a fact that every Blue Ray movie released so far is using the MPEG2 format. Sure the players can support VC-1 but it doesn't actually help the quality if they're NOT USING IT. As for price. the HD-DVD entry point is $500. The PS3's entry

Maybe you should look up the meanings of THEN [reference.com] and THAN [reference.com]. I thought the meanings were common knowledge, and there are lots [reference.com] of articles [homestead.com] on the [rutgers.edu] subject [englishplus.com].

All in jest, but "AV forums buzzing" does not make something "common knowledge". Simple grammar rules such as when to use than or then SHOULD be common knowledge, however that is much too optimistic for slashdot:D.

I apologize for not citing sources for the HD-DVD over Blu-Ray debate. I figured it was common knowledge at this point

Not meaning to pick on you, but far too often people are surrounded by others with the same interest. So while the forums and people you hang out with might be closely watching the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray battle, not everyone has time for it. I personally haven't paid attention to it at all, as I know getting an HD TV is fairly far on my horizon. By the time I get around to it, the war will have been

The question is, will there be enough cell processors to stuff into these boxes with yields being so aweful?

I seem to recall hearing that Sony has already addressed the problem of poor Cell fabrication yields by only requiring that 7 of the 8 SPE's on the silicon be functional, allowing chips with imperfections to be used in production.

Not when you understand the process. 'ramp up' is your phrase, not theirs, and the use therin intimates something in place later where little or nothing was before.

In this case, the manufacturing ability to pump out 2 mil/mo is in place now, however, the first runs will be throtted back, simply as a shrewd process monitoring precaution, until things are felt to have smoothed out, at which time the 'full speed ahead' signal is sent to the line(s) and the spigot is

I do believe what they mean in this case that they will deliver 2 million units by October (and then continue on to fulfill the rest of their contract at whatever production rate they are at by then; 400k or so?), not that they will be able to produce 2 million units PER month by then.;-)

Especially seeing that Sony could not remotely sell through 2 million units a month from just ONE of their suppliers.

Why not? A high-end GPU off newegg will do over a teraflop too. The difference between those teraflops and the ones in a supercomputer are that the former are not fully-programmable. Only about 128 gigaflops are programmable, and even that is 32-bit precision, compared to the 64-bit precision you find in a supercomputer. The rest is tied up in fixed function circuits that are a lot cheaper than a general purpose floating-point unit.As for Cell, yeah, 200gigaflops is a lot, but it's also 200gigaflops from ve

The article doesn't say a thing about what sort of truck they'll be using to deliver these PS3s, what roads it'll be taking, or which truckstops along the way serve the driver's favorite foods. How useless.

The article doesn't say a thing about what sort of truck they'll be using to deliver these PS3s, what roads it'll be taking, or which truckstops along the way serve the driver's favorite foods. How useless.

With chips that are one-by-one and silicon germanium, we can get yields of 95 percent. With a chip like the Cell processor, you?re lucky to get 10 or 20 percent. If you put logic redundancy on it, you can double that. It?s a great strategy, and I?m not sure anyone other than IBM is doing that with logic. Everybody does it with DRAM. There are always extra bits in there for memory. People have not yet moved to logic block redundancy, though.

I would guess that they are referring to the 'spare' co-processor on each Cell: each Cell has 7 SPEs (co-processors) working, but there are actually 8 in the silicon. That way, if one of the SPEs doesn't work during testing, you can just disable it and still keep the chip.

That is what they are refering to. But even allowing for the redundant SPE, satisfactory yeilds are only at 10%. So basically Sony is paying for 10 processors for every shipped processor. No doubt this will increase as time passes and they refine the process. IBM's current 3 core PowerPC processors (the 360's processor for all those fanboys watching) is currently yeilding about 60%. The cell is effectivly a single core PowerPC with 8 SPEs strapped on, the issue is with the SPEs, not the core itself. The oth

I believe what is being referred to are the extra circuits that are built into DRAM. They have "spares" built into them assuming that a certain percentage are going to be bad, in which case one of the spare circuits is used instead.

In other news, I'd like to announce that I'm putting $20 per week away in anticipation of meeting my goal of affording a PS3 at launch. There has been speculation about low yield (ok, so I already spent $10 of this week's money at Taco Bell.) But I'm hoping to be able to ramp up production in time to meet my goal of $1000 (PS3, a couple games, 4 controllers.) I'm sure my boss will understand and give me that raise!

The low-end PS3 isn't castrated any more than any other cheaper model in a product line. Is the 17" iMac "castrated"? Is the 30GB iPod "castrated"? Is a Palm E2 "castrated"?The reason people got on Microsoft's case about the "castrated" 360 was because it was missing a component key to its basic function of gaming (the HDD). The low-end PS3 doesn't have any of those limitations. It's got enough HDD for gaming, wireless controllers, etc. The only things its missing are "extras", like a memory card reader, HD

The WiFi is useless if you ask me... If the online service is anything like Live, they can stuff it (Subscription fee, plus micro-payments, plus advertising. Absurd and unacceptable.).As for the hard drive, it remains to be seen if you can hook up external storage. If you can, why spend the money on the more expensive PS3 when you can spend that money on hundereds of gigabytes of third-party storage instead?

Regardless of all that, I hope Sony sells TONS of the cheaper model. If a majority of BluRay players

If the general interest everywhere else is like it is here, 2 million should be more than enough to cover launch. Its a bit jacked up how the "bad buzz" has spread well beyond the internet, especially since its somethig none of us have seen yet. My brother in law was asking me about the xbox 360 yesterday, and was telling me how he heard the ps3 was an overpriced piece of ****. He has no home computer nor email account so how he heard this I have no idea, but if its any indication of the "general public" that is always discussed here as not knowing anything its not a good sign.

Im sure your right in regards to that, I also have a coworker who is online and much more into gaming than I am and he is getting PS3, he claims that there are few 3rd party developers for the wii and that M$ is just trying to force users into the next version of webtv. I dont even bother to comment, usually just nod and smile.Its all just rumors and speculation and even disproved rumors still abound. In the end people will buy consoles based on what they can afford, what their friends are playing and wha

The Wall Street Journal ran an article today on concerns about long-term sales [wsj.com] (subscribers only, I think) for the PS3. Wall Street analysts and industry watchers are concerned that the PS3 just won't succeed with the majority of gamers, especially with the Wii's lower price tag and innovative controller and the time lead that XBox 360 has.

This has happened before...PS2's yield rate was pretty crappy, if you remember. They were low on production numbers back then too. So low, in fact, that they couldn't even fulfill the numbers for the people who had preordered the system - they first went by date and who paid in full, and the next shipment went out to first-come customers.

Obviously, the PS2 did not hurt for sales at all. They supplied the numbers demanded of them eventually, and it was extremely successful. The only real killers for So

I, for one, welcome our new Sony over...... Oops. The sixties perhaps weren't very kind to me... Now, on topic

TFA is very short, low on content, and really doesn't do much for me. The only nugget o' information is that Sony's using some well-known suppliers for unit production.

Personally, I don't get much time to play games any more - even my kids are almost too busy to play any more. But, we really enjoy our consoles when we do get to play, so I am looking forward to the PS3. However, as before, we w

There is a big difference though at least Nintendo let people actually play some wii games on some actual hardware while Sony showed video that they said was being rendered in real time behind a curtain. Im sure the ps3 will be released on time and specs wise will be infinately more powerful than the wii, but until someone actually can touch one and see a game being played on one its still vaporware.

Sorry I gotta disagree - Vaporware, has always meant a product or software package that was announced but never "really" in development and had no release date. This is not the case with either the Wii or the PS3. Now how MANY PS3s that's up for grabs, but with all the infrastructure in place - what do you expect to be created? The Coleco Adam 2?

There seems to be a lot of concern in this discusssion to pick a winner, and then for a winner be an early adopter, but for a loser never ever buy it.

I think that's fine, I've done that myself, however for PS3 here is how it will work for me :

I will buy it - I decided a long long time ago and I don't particularly care what other peoples expectations of its features, value or prospects look like. Whether it's $600, or $1200, doesn't particularly matter to me. They last me for many years and I get a lot of fun out of them - PS2 was a particularly good deal, but if PS3 can save me buying an expensive separate dedicated blu-ray player it might also turn out to be a bargain.

I wont queue up or pay deposits or try really hard to get one early. I will simply wait until I happen to be in a store that has a pile of them and then I'll just pick one up.

I'll buy a few games - Jak and Daxter, Gran Turismo, Ratchett and Clank, maybe Pitfall. I'm sure a few wll be wicked and I'll love them. A few I'll play for an hour and give up on.

If PS3 takes off and starts to have even more awesome games, I'll buy a few more. If it's a failure, well, that's fine, I'm not too worried. Hey, maybe I'll buy an xbox 360 too. Several high-end consoles and some games works out a lot cheaper per hour of entertainment than, say, getting a babysitter and going out to the movies over and over. In a few years I'll let my daughter play some carefully chosen games from time to time.

I'm not going to pick a winner, and I'm not completely on one "side" or the other. Unless you count the side that says if I had enough money I'd have all the consoles and all the games and I also wouldn't have to work and would actually complete the odd game!

If the next Ratchet and Clank is anything like Deadlocked or even UYA, I'll pass. Supposedly both R&C and the Jak series are over though.If there's a Burnout 5, I'll be all over it. I just hope they get rid of "traffic checking". Or God of War 3. But I'll certainly never buy another JRPG again.

After all that, it's hard to justify the purchase price. I don't even own a HDTV. I guess the Wii was made for people like me. And now I'm picturing Mario in a Wii version of a God of War type of title -- s

this is a perspective that many of us in the "target demographic" cannot enjoy due to lack of resources.

I don't have the luxury of not caring about price

Sure, I understand the projected $600 price will be significant to many people, let alone the $1200 made up figure I mentioned. For me $600 is hardly trivial, but I will forego expenditure on other things to get a new games console because alternatives end up even more expensive, or are less justified. For example, I have a two year old digital SLR - it's

Generally all you need is a business checking account. This is common when doing business with any wholsale distributor, video game or otherwise. Your town may or may not charge a fee to register a business name. My town charges $5.Do you have to commit to a certain number of units over a period of tim?

At launch time, anything goes with these contracts. Who knows what they'll ask of you, and it may not be the same as the deal they give to somebody else. I'm not familliar with the current terms for these lau

For the dubious privilege of being the first kid / man-child on the block with a PS3, you get to pay for a handful of mediocre games, uncertainty over whether your new console will work correctly, long waits for restocking if it doesn't, an online service that will invariably lag / buckle / crash on day one and a lucky dip of the usual problems that plague all new releases.

Let other people be paying beta testers. If the system is worth buying, it will soon become apparent once the hype dies down, what pro

Let's say Sony somehow manages to launch with 2 million systems, 1 million systems, 10,000 systems, it really does not matter as now the demand will outstrip supply regardless of the price of the PS3 INITIALLY.
It will be very difficult to get a PS3 if they launch worldwide with 2 million systems. In fact, ebay sales will make up most of initial purchases. In the 360 line at launch at least half of the people there were buying to resell on ebay. Nontheless, where are the killer games? What is the killer app? ALL of the games shown at the E3 seemed way off from shipping and there was no mention that the Flagship title of Metal Gear Solid 8 would be ready at launch. Sony is in a very tight spot. Miss the launch and wait for the games and lose more ground, or ship unfinished, crappy games that drive their fans directly to buying an XBox 360 instead, at half the price.
Lastly, Sony is going to become the niche player this time around. Parents faced with $5 a gallon gas this year may buy a $299 360, but certainly not a $700 PS3.

Yup. In the end, just like everyone says, it comes down to the games.I've been a big Nintendo fan for as long as I can remember, and I was enjoying life just fine having never owned a Playstation. Then one day I played GTA3 at a friend's house, and ended up buying my own copy along with a PS2 to go with it that next weekend.

Now granted, it'd probably take an unbelievably amazing new game to get me to drop $500+ bucks just like that, but a couple years down the line, if the price has dropped to something rea

Sony seems to forget that what made their past consoles so popular was because it appealed to the "casual gamer". People who were looking to get in at a reasonable price point and people who only bought one because it's what their friends had. A lot of people bought the PS2 because at the time it was a cheap DVD player. and while the PS3 might be a cheap Blu-Ray player it's still more expensive then the (now proven to be) superior HD-DVD players, not to mention neither next gen movie f

I have to disagree really. This is my opinion on the primary genera distribution over consoles.PS2: Fighting games, RPGs, rhythm gamesXbox: FPSs, racing gamesGamecube: party games and platformers, puzzle, kids games

Across the board: Sports games, stealth

From that I would say that the other two consoles were primarily targeting casual gamers and out of the consoles it would be the PS2 that targeted avid gamers the most.

And there is the parallel from DVD and blue ray. Although I don't think the world is reall

well I'd agree partially... The Xbox does concentrate mostly on FPS and Racers, and the GC mostly on party, platformer... etc. But the PS2 doesn't really concentrate in any one area. Sure it's got more fighters then both Xbox and GC put together but it's also got just as many racing games as fighters. Most of the best selling PS2 games were cross platform games. Like Madden and Grand Theft Auto. There are almost as many rhythm games on Xbox (DDR, Karaoke games, Music Mixer, etc.) and GC (DDR, Donkey Konga e

and while the PS3 might be a cheap Blu-Ray player it's still more expensive then the (now proven to be) superior HD-DVD players

Well, blu-ray is supposed to have dual layer (50GB) and support VC-1 codec. In reality they're using single layer and MPEG2, so the blu-ray camp is shooting themselves in the foot at the moment. If they do get their act together, it does have the capacity edge with all else being equal.

As someone who's not going to buy the dang thing, I do take objection to tagging the PS3 as Vaporware. Since when does arranging deals with manufacturers equate to "it's never being released"? The Phantom is one thing, but to tag Sony's next big thing as vaporware is ridiculous.