(1) His O-line was terrible. It looked a LOT like the Texans O-line we suffered with all season. (There were times I almost thought we WERE watching the Texans O-line.) Peyton rarely had enough time in the pocket to make plays. (Yes, a large portion of that goes in the form of props to the Seattle D, but I think even absent that, the Broncos' O-line was simply putrid, and it's hard for ANY QB to look good under such constant harassment.)

(2) The term "choke" (to me) implies that bad play in the clutch helped turn what should (or could) have been a win into a loss, especially in the fourth quarter. The Broncos were so thoroughly outplayed in all aspects of the game for just about all 60 minutes that I don't even think a good performance from Peyton, given the defense he was up against, would have made a difference in the outcome of the game (apart from perhaps making it closer).

In reality, Tom Brady, as much as I hate everything about the Brady-Belichick Patriots, is probably grinning. After Manning beat Brady in the AFC Championship and Denver won pretty convincingly over the Pats (noting that NE is a mediocre road team at best), some thought Manning' legacy may have taken baby steps toward Brady's, especially if he won this Super Bowl. Well, that talk should be over in terms of post-season performance. I've seen Brady lose playoff games. I've seen Brady lose Super Bowls. I've seen Brady at less than his best in those games. But I've never seen Brady unleash a toxic stinkbomb in a postseason game, let alone a Super Bowl, that was anywhere near this stench-ridden.

you're forgetting that 35-7 stinkbomb Brady & the pats laid in 2009 against the Ravens in the playoffs...but in general i agree with most of what you're saying here. The Broncos were so thoroughly outplayed & outcoached, Manning would've had to have benn perfect for them to even have a shot to win. Apart from that, Brady shouldn't be grinning about anything b/c nearly the exact same thing happened to him in 2007. The only difference here is that at least half of his team showed up to at least give him a chance.

I was at a friend's house watching with about 20 other people. I was the only person pulling for Seattle. I get the Manning man crush, having been on the wrong side of it for so many years. But, I really do not get why that Seahawks team is so unanimously hated. Those guys play their asses off and they are well coached.

Much like this thread (not entirely but the majority), a Broncos rout was predicted before the game by my rowdy friends. I still can't decide if they wanted Denver to win or if they just wanted Seattle to lose.

Fortunately for me, they disappeared into their drinks as I got to watch football as it was meant to be played (IMO). Suffocating defense, well coached special teams, and a patient offense that exploited mistakes. The better team clearly won, which left a lot of people unhappy for some reason.

I know some people only wanted to see a competitive game, but I saw exactly what I was hoping I would see. So I guess I'm in the minority that had a good time.

I was at a friend's house watching with about 20 other people. I was the only person pulling for Seattle. I get the Manning man crush, having been on the wrong side of it for so many years. But, I really do not get why that Seahawks team is so unanimously hated. Those guys play their asses off and they are well coached.

Much like this thread (not entirely but the majority), a Broncos rout was predicted before the game by my rowdy friends. I still can't decide if they wanted Denver to win or if they just wanted Seattle to lose.

Fortunately for me, they disappeared into their drinks as I got to watch football as it was meant to be played (IMO). Suffocating defense, well coached special teams, and a patient offense that exploited mistakes. The better team clearly won, which left a lot of people unhappy for some reason.

agree...I wanted to see Manning win, but i didn't mind that Seattle won it...I was happy for Carroll & Wilson...more importantly i was happy b/c i knew somewhere in this great nation of ours John Harbaugh was gonna be pissed off b/c Seattle won....

But yeah, no way could you have watched that game last night & not seen how much better Seattle was coached. They were loose & dictated to Denver the whole game. Harvin coming in & making a big play on that jet sweep early on clearly threw a monkey wrench in whatever Denver had planned on defense b/c Ayers looked lost out there.

But, I really do not get why that Seahawks team is so unanimously hated. Those guys play their asses off and they are well coached.

For me it has nothing to do with their swagger, or Richard Sherman's mouth, or any of that. It's the FANS.

They built a new stadium specifically designed to amplify crowd noise, then equate "being loudest" with "being the best fans" and acting like they have been this loyal every year since 1976 instead of getting loud on the bandwagon. They can't even come up with an original moniker for their fan base so they have to "license" a nickname from Texas A&M.

And any time someone says anything about who has the most loyal fans, all they do is point to crowd noise (which to me says more about being drunk and obnoxious than about being passionate).

I have a lot of respect for the Seahawks and how they play the game. But this year their fans have been, on the aggregate as a fan base, highly annoying.

You can still be one of "the greatest to ever do it" and fall in the top ten.

I'm sorry, Payton's legacy was killed in that game. His body language, his facial expressions on the sideline, his performance in the game, and his ovrl performance in postseason play... His legacy took a hit. He firmly cemented himself behind the likes of Brady, because I highly doubt a Brady led team would've got their asses kicked the way Payton's team did last night. Payton will go down as a all time great (that's a given), especially in the regular season.. he just won't be remembered as "the greatest to ever do it".. and that's where his legacy took a hit, because that's what he was playing for last night. You simply can't ignore his postseason performances... not after that ass kicking and after the other lame ducks he's put up in other playoff games.

For me it has nothing to do with their swagger, or Richard Sherman's mouth, or any of that. It's the FANS.

They built a new stadium specifically designed to amplify crowd noise, then equate "being loudest" with "being the best fans" and acting like they have been this loyal every year since 1976 instead of getting loud on the bandwagon. They can't even come up with an original moniker for their fan base so they have to "license" a nickname from Texas A&M.

And any time someone says anything about who has the most loyal fans, all they do is point to crowd noise (which to me says more about being drunk and obnoxious than about being passionate).

I have a lot of respect for the Seahawks and how they play the game. But this year their fans have been, on the aggregate as a fan base, highly annoying.

I understand that completely. Living down here, I am not exposed to very many Seattle fans so I do not have to deal with them. And "fans" in general tend to irritate me regardless of who they root for.

The Seahawks have been my second favorite team ever since they drafted Earl Thomas. Their roster is also full of players that I loved coming out of college. They always seem to somehow end up with about four or five guys every year that I wanted the Texans to draft.

I agree with that. I think Denver lost this game with that safety right at the beginning.

If "the greatest" cannot overcome a 2 point deficit with 59:40 left on the game clock....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

They could play again next week, and Denver would probably win.

....then I don't see how you can say this with a straight face.

Six times has the #1 defense faced the #1 offense in the Super Bowl.

Defenses are 5-1 in those games.

Peyton Manning and his Broncos were DOMINATED. I don't see how a mere week is going to change the fundamental nature of each team.

Manning has been throwing short passes all season and his receivers have made plays after the catch all season. The Seahawks do not allow offenses to do this because they are so fast and they attack the ball so well that you cannot dink and dunk without a deep threat and expect to win. The Seahawks took away Manning's strengths and exploited his offense's weaknesses.

Fantastic performance by the Seahawks in all phases of the game. They will be back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy

Yep. I don't see why they can't.

What do you know, man, you're just a football fan, amirite?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX

As bad as it was last night for Manning..this doesn't really change my opinion about his legacy...dude is still perhaps the greatest to ever do it...

It is a subjective argument, but this game put this one to rest. Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman all have multiple rings and have never lost Super Bowls. Manning clearly has the statistical edge - in a era that heavily favors the passing game, btw - but true legacy of greatness to be G.O.A.T. is built with the accumulation of championships.

__________________"Football is only a diversion." ~ Houston Texans, Inc.

You can still be one of "the greatest to ever do it" and fall in the top ten.

I'm sorry, Payton's legacy was killed in that game. His body language, his facial expressions on the sideline, his performance in the game, and his ovrl performance in postseason play... His legacy took a hit. He firmly cemented himself behind the likes of Brady, because I highly doubt a Brady led team would've got their asses kicked the way Payton's team did last night. Payton will go down as a all time great (that's a given), especially in the regular season.. he just won't be remembered as "the greatest to ever do it".. and that's where his legacy took a hit, because that's what he was playing for last night. You simply can't ignore his postseason performances... not after that ass kicking and after the other lame ducks he's put up in other playoff games.

His legacy will take a hit with those who already really don't like him..that's fine..Me personally though, I've long discounted the "must win multiple SB's/championships to be considered the greatest" argument simply b/c people are too biased and usually don't take everything into consideration. Brady is considered better than Manning largely b/c he has more SB rings but then those same folks discount a guy like Bradshaw b/c he had 1 of the greatest defenses backing him....but then will elevate a guy like Dan Marino over say John Elway b/c of some other made up personal nonsense. There's just too much that goes into winning SB's let alone multiple ones.

Based on what the guy has done his whole career regardless of the circumstances, he's the greatest to ever do it in my eyes. No 1 qb has ever brought more to the game....imo of course.

Excellent coach, but I personally don't like what he did at USC (and I never liked USC). He allowed rampant cheating and rules violations under his watch, and then when the hammer was about to come down (on kids who had nothing to do with the violations and on new coaches who had no role in it) -- he took his ball, went to the NFL and left other, more innocent parties to burn in the flames of the fire he helped to stoke while he avoided all the consequences.