I'm sure at some level we all know this, but it is nice to have an external source. Just had to put a quick blog together once I stumbled onto that article documenting how new college grads at many many many companies are starting out with base salaries north of $100K plus bennies which total up to about half that again.

Post by seasoned_geekI'm sure at some level we all know this, but it is nice to have an external source. Just had to put a quick blog together once I stumbled onto that article documenting how new college grads at many many many companies are starting out with base salaries north of $100K plus bennies which total up to about half that again.http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/information-technology/calling-all-consulting-firms/

Makes one want to go back to school...

I find the Amazon one hard to believe although this is grad salary, not the pleb salary they pay their normal folk. I hear amazon is shocking to work for and they have reviews that are deliberately made impossible to meet - the ultimate hamster wheel

Post by seasoned_geekI'm sure at some level we all know this, but it is nice to have an external source. Just had to put a quick blog together once I stumbled onto that article documenting how new college grads at many many many companies are starting out with base salaries north of $100K plus bennies which total up to about half that again.http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/information-technology/calling-all-consulting-firms/

Makes one want to go back to school...I find the Amazon one hard to believe although this is grad salary, not the pleb salary they pay their normal folk. I hear amazon is shocking to work for and they have reviews that are deliberately made impossible to meet - the ultimate hamster wheel

What surprised me wasn't seeing the Internet darlings, but even shit holes like Bloomberg were supposedly paying that. Of course they all want you to work 7 days per week 14+ hours per day, but Bloomberg is the Wal-mart of contracting. They quote you some high hourly rate . . . BUT . . . they pay on what they determine to be a "professional day." _They_ assign you what _they_ believe to be "one professional day's worth of work," you have no say. Takes you 6 months to get done, too bad for you, they will pay for a professional day. Why the A.G. would prosecute Wal-mart and not Bloomberg I will never understand.

Post by seasoned_geekI'm sure at some level we all know this, but it is nice to have an external source. Just had to put a quick blog together once I stumbled onto that article documenting how new college grads at many many many companies are starting out with base salaries north of $100K plus bennies which total up to about half that again.http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/information-technology/calling-all-consulting-firms/

Hello out there! I am an experienced school OT branching out into clinic-based OT dealing with chronic pain/fibromyalgia clients. Am going to be billing Medicare/Medicaide/private insurance, but not sure how much to at an hourly rate. Live in large city, Mpls. Any advice would be apprecated!

Post by seasoned_geekI'm sure at some level we all know this, but it is nice to have an external source. Just had to put a quick blog together once I stumbled onto that article documenting how new college grads at many many many companies are starting out with base salaries north of $100K plus bennies which total up to about half that again.http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/information-technology/calling-all-consulting-firms/

As I look out my office window in Kitchener-Waterloo, I can see the Google building two blocks away which boasts having the largest data center space in Canada (200,000 sq/ft). Last I heard, they currently employ 150 software engineers and no one started under $100k. BTW, anyone at Google can set aside 20% of their work-week to do their own projects. Most people in the real world would call this a 4-day work week :-)

Post by Neil RieckAs I look out my office window in Kitchener-Waterloo, I can see the Googlebuilding two blocks away which boasts having the largest data center spacein Canada (200,000 sq/ft). Last I heard, they currently employ 150 softwareengineers and no one started under $100k. BTW, anyone at Google can setaside 20% of their work-week to do their own projects. Most people in thereal world would call this a 4-day work week :-)

Post by Bill GunshannonNot to mention the fact that, at least under US law, the projectwould then be the property of Google. Of course, that would onlymatter if the project was a success. :-)

What has US law got to do with it? I thought the OP was posting fromCanada.

Might not matter much. Unless the specifics are spelled out, when someone isbeing paid, anything they do on the job is "work for hire" and belongs towhoever is doing the paying. I'd guess that's the way it is most places.

Actually, not a bad tactic. When someone comes up with something valuable, theemployer can step in and claim the work. Unless there is some kind of signedcontract saying something else.

Post by Bill GunshannonNot to mention the fact that, at least under US law, the projectwould then be the property of Google. Of course, that would onlymatter if the project was a success. :-)

What has US law got to do with it? I thought the OP was posting fromCanada.

Well, Google employs a few people here as well. And I would imagineCanadian law is similar on this if not exactly the same.Just trying to point out that this is not as much of a benefit as somepeople seem to think.

I think the law is not that relevant. The employment contract usuallycovers such things anyway, and it normally says that the employer ownswhatever the person develops.

Post by Johnny BillquistI think the law is not that relevant. The employment contract usuallycovers such things anyway, and it normally says that the employer ownswhatever the person develops.

Never had an employment contract. What part of the word uses those?

Really? Didn't sign anything to begin employment? I had one with DEC/Digital/Compaq/HP. I have one with VSI. All the code I write, etc. does not belong to me.

That's not surprising. DEC/Digital/Compaq/HP/VSI are in the business of writingand selling software. Of course they'd claim anything you do. If you wanted todo something yourself on your time, you'd need that specified in the "contract".

Now maybe Bob has a "job", that just incidentally includes writing some code.Since his employer isn't interested in the code as a product, but just what'srequired to get the job done, they are not as concerned about "ownership".However, they would not find it acceptable for Bob to then attempt to chargethem for using the code he writes.

Post by Johnny BillquistI think the law is not that relevant. The employment contractusually covers such things anyway, and it normally says that theemployer owns whatever the person develops.

Never had an employment contract. What part of the word uses those?

Really? Didn't sign anything to begin employment? I had one withDEC/Digital/Compaq/HP. I have one with VSI. All the code I write,etc. does not belong to me.

That's not surprising. DEC/Digital/Compaq/HP/VSI are in the business ofwriting and selling software. Of course they'd claim anything you do.If you wanted to do something yourself on your time, you'd need thatspecified in the "contract".Now maybe Bob has a "job", that just incidentally includes writing somecode. Since his employer isn't interested in the code as a product, butjust what's required to get the job done, they are not as concernedabout "ownership". However, they would not find it acceptable for Bob tothen attempt to charge them for using the code he writes.It's best for these things to be spelled out clearly up front.

Well, what Bob said was that he never had an employment contract. So, nocontract saying how much he should work, and what the reimbursementshould be, how much vacation he can take, and so on...I've only been in such a situation when I have been self-employed. Idon't know where Bob is working.

Now, doing things that clearly are not related to work, and done on yourown time, might be a clear cut case of the employer do not have anyright to claim any of it. But as you say, it's usually better to haveall that spelled out explicitly.

Post by Johnny BillquistI think the law is not that relevant. The employment contractusually covers such things anyway, and it normally says that theemployer owns whatever the person develops.

Never had an employment contract. What part of the word uses those?

Really? Didn't sign anything to begin employment? I had one withDEC/Digital/Compaq/HP. I have one with VSI. All the code I write,etc. does not belong to me.

That's not surprising. DEC/Digital/Compaq/HP/VSI are in the business ofwriting and selling software. Of course they'd claim anything you do.If you wanted to do something yourself on your time, you'd need thatspecified in the "contract".Now maybe Bob has a "job", that just incidentally includes writing somecode. Since his employer isn't interested in the code as a product, butjust what's required to get the job done, they are not as concernedabout "ownership". However, they would not find it acceptable for Bob tothen attempt to charge them for using the code he writes.It's best for these things to be spelled out clearly up front.

Well, what Bob said was that he never had an employment contract. So, nocontract saying how much he should work, and what the reimbursementshould be, how much vacation he can take, and so on...I've only been in such a situation when I have been self-employed. Idon't know where Bob is working.Now, doing things that clearly are not related to work, and done on yourown time, might be a clear cut case of the employer do not have anyright to claim any of it. But as you say, it's usually better to haveall that spelled out explicitly.Johnny

Well, from prior posts, Bob might be working for NASA, or some other governmentagency, or contractor. Now, as far as I'm aware, the government doesn'tnormally negotiate individual contracts with employees. They just state,"here's the job, take it or leave it". Perhaps ....

Regardless, if nothing is specified, then there is one overriding consideration.Who can afford more lawyers?

Post by Johnny BillquistI think the law is not that relevant. The employment contractusually covers such things anyway, and it normally says that theemployer owns whatever the person develops.

Never had an employment contract. What part of the word uses those?

Really? Didn't sign anything to begin employment? I had one withDEC/Digital/Compaq/HP. I have one with VSI. All the code I write,etc. does not belong to me.

That's not surprising. DEC/Digital/Compaq/HP/VSI are in the business ofwriting and selling software. Of course they'd claim anything you do.If you wanted to do something yourself on your time, you'd need thatspecified in the "contract".Now maybe Bob has a "job", that just incidentally includes writing somecode. Since his employer isn't interested in the code as a product, butjust what's required to get the job done, they are not as concernedabout "ownership". However, they would not find it acceptable for Bob tothen attempt to charge them for using the code he writes.It's best for these things to be spelled out clearly up front.

Well, what Bob said was that he never had an employment contract. So, nocontract saying how much he should work, and what the reimbursementshould be, how much vacation he can take, and so on...I've only been in such a situation when I have been self-employed. Idon't know where Bob is working.Now, doing things that clearly are not related to work, and done on yourown time, might be a clear cut case of the employer do not have anyright to claim any of it. But as you say, it's usually better to haveall that spelled out explicitly.Johnny

Well, from prior posts, Bob might be working for NASA, or some other governmentagency, or contractor. Now, as far as I'm aware, the government doesn'tnormally negotiate individual contracts with employees. They just state,"here's the job, take it or leave it". Perhaps ....Regardless, if nothing is specified, then there is one overriding consideration.Who can afford more lawyers?

Prior to Digital, I worked for Union Carbide (who was a subcontractor for the DOE at Oak Ridge TN). Similar situation there. Everything I did went to UC. Of course, with using federal money, much of that was probably public domain (at least the part that wasn't covered by a security clearance), but I certainly could not claim ownership of it.

Post by John ReaganPrior to Digital, I worked for Union Carbide (who was a subcontractor for the DOE at Oak Ridge TN). Similar situation there. Everything I did went to UC. Of course, with using federal money, much of that was probably public domain (at least the part that wasn't covered by a security clearance), but I certainly could not claim ownership of it.

Well, I started consulting rather early on, but, as I remember, even up through my gig at LIOCS I never had an employee contract. I had an employee handbook at 2 jobs but as I remember at LIOCS it was kind of,

"Here's how you fill out your timesheet because every minute of your day is being billed to someone."

Having said that, when I left LIOCS there was no Internet. Bulletin Board systems could provide you echo mail if you could find a BBS which didn't go bankrupt after about a year due to long distance fees.

Post by Johnny BillquistI think the law is not that relevant. The employment contractusually covers such things anyway, and it normally says that theemployer owns whatever the person develops.

Never had an employment contract. What part of the word uses those?

Really? Didn't sign anything to begin employment? I had one withDEC/Digital/Compaq/HP. I have one with VSI. All the code I write,etc. does not belong to me.

That's not surprising. DEC/Digital/Compaq/HP/VSI are in the business ofwriting and selling software. Of course they'd claim anything you do.If you wanted to do something yourself on your time, you'd need thatspecified in the "contract".Now maybe Bob has a "job", that just incidentally includes writing somecode. Since his employer isn't interested in the code as a product, butjust what's required to get the job done, they are not as concernedabout "ownership". However, they would not find it acceptable for Bob tothen attempt to charge them for using the code he writes.It's best for these things to be spelled out clearly up front.

Well, what Bob said was that he never had an employment contract. So,no contract saying how much he should work, and what the reimbursementshould be, how much vacation he can take, and so on...I've only been in such a situation when I have been self-employed. Idon't know where Bob is working.Now, doing things that clearly are not related to work, and done onyour own time, might be a clear cut case of the employer do not haveany right to claim any of it. But as you say, it's usually better tohave all that spelled out explicitly.Johnny

Well, from prior posts, Bob might be working for NASA, or some othergovernment agency, or contractor. Now, as far as I'm aware, thegovernment doesn't normally negotiate individual contracts withemployees. They just state, "here's the job, take it or leave it".Perhaps ....

Just because they don't negotiate individual packages doesn'tmean there is no contract. Having worked for the government,among other places, I can assure you there is a contract.

Post by David FrobleRegardless, if nothing is specified, then there is one overridingconsideration. Who can afford more lawyers?

As i said, just because you didn't bother to read it doesn'tmean it doesn't exist. Kinda like software licenses. :-)

Post by Johnny BillquistI think the law is not that relevant. The employment contractusually covers such things anyway, and it normally says that theemployer owns whatever the person develops.

Never had an employment contract. What part of the word uses those?

Really? Didn't sign anything to begin employment? I had one withDEC/Digital/Compaq/HP. I have one with VSI. All the code I write,etc. does not belong to me.

That's not surprising. DEC/Digital/Compaq/HP/VSI are in the business ofwriting and selling software. Of course they'd claim anything you do.If you wanted to do something yourself on your time, you'd need thatspecified in the "contract".Now maybe Bob has a "job", that just incidentally includes writing somecode. Since his employer isn't interested in the code as a product, butjust what's required to get the job done, they are not as concernedabout "ownership". However, they would not find it acceptable for Bob tothen attempt to charge them for using the code he writes.It's best for these things to be spelled out clearly up front.

Well, what Bob said was that he never had an employment contract. So,no contract saying how much he should work, and what the reimbursementshould be, how much vacation he can take, and so on...I've only been in such a situation when I have been self-employed. Idon't know where Bob is working.Now, doing things that clearly are not related to work, and done onyour own time, might be a clear cut case of the employer do not haveany right to claim any of it. But as you say, it's usually better tohave all that spelled out explicitly.Johnny

Well, from prior posts, Bob might be working for NASA, or some othergovernment agency, or contractor. Now, as far as I'm aware, thegovernment doesn't normally negotiate individual contracts withemployees. They just state, "here's the job, take it or leave it".Perhaps ....

Just because they don't negotiate individual packages doesn'tmean there is no contract. Having worked for the government,among other places, I can assure you there is a contract.

Post by David FrobleRegardless, if nothing is specified, then there is one overridingconsideration. Who can afford more lawyers?

As i said, just because you didn't bother to read it doesn'tmean it doesn't exist. Kinda like software licenses. :-)bill

Over here, a handshake is regarded legally as an "agreement".The issue is of course to prove what the handshake meant... :-)

Any deasent workplace has an "collective agreement" signed centrallybetween the "employers' association" and the unions. And everyoneworking for that employer works automatically under that agreement.The collective agrement usually has parts about IP.

Post by Bill GunshannonJust because they don't negotiate individual packages doesn'tmean there is no contract. Having worked for the government,among other places, I can assure you there is a contract.As i said, just because you didn't bother to read it doesn'tmean it doesn't exist. Kinda like software licenses. :-)

You know, this just came up at a recent client site. They too had no employee contract. The way it came up was they found out one of the consultants who had been working remotely had spent the bulk of his time contributing code to an OpenSource project while logging billable time to the company. The OpenSource project was hosted on Git and they happened to see all of his check-ins.

The difference here is the size of the entity. Something as massive and tree shredding as a government will have mountains of contract paperwork for each employee. Small shops, typically having 20 people or less, just have an employee benefits handbook which covers time keeping, vacation time, and insurance.

At one place, I, being the only consultant, was the only person who had a contract. Well me and the place they were leasing office space from. There is no way I wouldn't have taken the gig without a contract because I believed the dude was a piss poor money manager. He bought lots of toys for himself, but wouldn't pay to replace/fix the air conditioner. Good thing I had a contract because he stiffed a _lot_ of people but I'm the only one able to take him to court.

Post by Johnny BillquistI think the law is not that relevant. The employment contract usuallycovers such things anyway, and it normally says that the employer ownswhatever the person develops.

Never had an employment contract. What part of the word uses those?

If you have ever had a job, you had an employment contract. Justbecause, like most contracts, you never read it doesn't mean itdoesn't exist. It might have been called "The Employee's Handbook"or something similar, but all work involves a contract between theemployer and the employee.

Post by Bill GunshannonIf you have ever had a job, you had an employment contract. Justbecause, like most contracts, you never read it doesn't mean itdoesn't exist. It might have been called "The Employee's Handbook"or something similar, but all work involves a contract between theemployer and the employee.

A contract requires it be signed by multiple parties. I did actually read the employee handbook. You know what it had in it. How to record your time. How vacation time was accrued and what forms to use to fill out health insurance claims. That was it. Thing was never signed by anyone. The only thing I signed there was a W-9.

Post by Bill GunshannonIf you have ever had a job, you had an employment contract. Justbecause, like most contracts, you never read it doesn't mean itdoesn't exist. It might have been called "The Employee's Handbook"or something similar, but all work involves a contract between theemployer and the employee.

A contract requires it be signed by multiple parties. I did actually read the employee handbook. You know what it had in it. How to record your time. How vacation time was accrued and what forms to use to fill out health insurance claims. That was it. Thing was never signed by anyone. The only thing I signed there was a W-9.

I wonder why any of the companies paid you any money. Don't sound likethey ever signed any agreement saying they had to pay you anything then.

Post by Bill GunshannonNot to mention the fact that, at least under US law, the projectwould then be the property of Google. Of course, that would onlymatter if the project was a success. :-)

Success is in the marketing.

Let us not forget, the glue which is on the back of 3M Post-It notepads was a complete failure. They were trying to make a glue which dried so hard it made Krazy glue look like Elmur's school glue but they extended the drying time so much it never really gets dry. It wasn't until someone put it on the back of those little yellow squares that it became a success.

The Sony Walkman was 2 failed projects. The first was engineers trying to see how small they could make a cassette tape player. They forgot to leave enough room for the record hardware and thought nobody would buy it. The second was a group trying to make high quality super small headphones. Yes they were light weight, but they didn't have enough sound quality for home stereo use.