EDIT: It seems Chris' basic argument is (and I've seen this dozens of times before) is that because there are ****ty programs/coaches out there that aren't CF, it makes it okay that CF is ****ty. Makes sense.

And the basic and only argument anyone ever can come up with is its dangerous because of poor form because of the time element. Time isn't even necessarily a key part of it.

With proper coaching this won't happen. With poor coaching or no coaching and relying solely on youtube as suggested poor form can happen at any type of gym. Is that even remotely being debated by you?

There are ****ty trainers and coaches at every type of gym, in no way does that mean I'm saying it is ok for CF to have them. My experience was I worked with great coaches, once they left I did to.

So as you can see my entire point is actually the opposite of what you are pathetically attempting to twist my words into and that is ONLY work with quality trainers and coaches regardless of the type of workout you are doing.

And the basic and only argument anyone ever can come up with is its dangerous because of poor form because of the time element. Time isn't even necessarily a key part of it.

Wrong. As I've stated many times (including in this very thread)

-Lack of periodization
-Lack of proper movement selection for beginners (First day? Here let's do some cleans! Don't worry we scaled the load!)
-Lack of assessment and reassessment
-Use of complex movements in high fatigue states
-Use of complex movements in high rep format

So where is the sole argument of the time element?

Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik

With proper coaching this won't happen. With poor coaching or no coaching and relying solely on youtube as suggested poor form can happen at any type of gym. Is that even remotely being debated by you?

Wrong.

Serious question...can you read? I mean why can't you understand that it doesn't matter who the coach is, that quality of movement breaks down under fatigue and therefore high intensity workouts should utilize basic and simple human movements? Are you really so arrogant to think that such an advanced athlete such as Jon North could be outdone in the sport he competes in by some random Joe-Schmo?

I've been to CF gyms...I've trained with people who do CF full time. This has nothing to do with people learning things on youtube.

Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik

There are ****ty trainers and coaches at every type of gym, in no way does that mean I'm saying it is ok for CF to have them. My experience was I worked with great coaches, once they left I did to.

And your experience was definitely the exception. There are only a handful of quality CF coaches and they are in it for the $$$.

Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik

So as you can see my entire point is actually the opposite of what you are pathetically attempting to twist my words into and that is ONLY work with quality trainers and coaches regardless of the type of workout you are doing.

Wrong.

This is a thread asking about people's opinions on CrossFit. You're the one crying about everyone hating on it. If this was a thread about Zumba, P90X etc... it would be no different.

And in my opinion, CF is just begging for the hate. They are the ones that claim they produce the worlds best athletes. They are the ones that say that CrossFit is better for bodybuilding than being a bodybuilder. They are the ones that say that their participants are the "fittest" people on the planet, and then go make a competition that fits their training model to prove it.\

I think I'm a great coach, but if someone showed up at my gym wanting to be trained for a triathalon I would refer them to another gym. Why? Because that's not what I do, and my experience in that area of fitness is lacking. But CrossFit? Come on in! At CrossFit you'll be better than everyone at everything!

Thanks again for proving you can do nothing but generalize about CF which you clear don't fully understand. you really really don't fully understand it you just regurgitate what you have read elsewhere despite your claims otherwise.

I'm not a fanboi, I don't go to a CF gym I don't do CF.

but I am someone who is aware enough to see it isn't this terrible thing you claim.

Sorry someone messed up your business plan, don't be so bitter about it.

CF at many gyms is nothing more then a name used for marketing just the same as you do with boot camp. You have said you do a boot camp program. there are good and bad ones right? You would say yours is good right?

Not every CF gym does the same thing, its a marketing tool that gets people searching and finding their business. Just like your boot camp does.

I'm not crying about everyone hating on it, feel free to hate on it if you have a valid point. You honestly and you alone do have a few valid points and I have not argued those. Not a single other poster has had an original thought on CF, they have simply regurgitated what they heard someone else say before. My argument against those people is not based on CF, it is based on a general dislike of people who can't think for themselves, can't actually research or look things up and i'd have the same argument with them over cereal or masking tape if they proved to be uninformed and too lazy to actually learn. Like a guy yesterday who has never swam a lap in his life trying to tell people you burn no calories swimming its only from your body trying to stay warm..

I think I'm a great coach, but if someone showed up at my gym wanting to be trained for a triathalon I would refer them to another gym. Why? Because that's not what I do, and my experience in that area of fitness is lacking. But CrossFit? Come on in! At CrossFit you'll be better than everyone at everything!

CF is actually a great off season training tool for triathlon. Many triathletes are afraid to build muscle mass because in that sport weight is a disadvantage. For a lot of triathletes it was actually a way to sneak in strength training they didn't really realize was happening.

That is actually the reason i first looked into it, I am at a serious weight disadvantage to be competitive and maintaining strength was key while limiting an increase in mass (OMG I know a hard concept for most here to get). Unfortunately my body responds too well and just looking at weights I end up putting on muscle. Working out with weights made me stronger and more powerful sure, but it also slowed my down significantly. Ultimately I stopped working out period for the time being since I need to figure out what I want, do i want to be competitive in triathlon or do i want to build mass. If I was 0% Bodyfat I would still be 30lbs heavier then most of the competitive triathletes.

I'm kinda with Chris on this one. It's not some evil, horribly devised workout program. Every CF gym I've been to has said to stop if your form starts to break. If you can't do that many reps with good form, it doesn't count.

I will say that I noticed a big difference between the gym in ATL and the one in Alabama. The ATL gym is less supervised but less cultish whereas the gym back in Alabama was very cultish but lots of supervision.

I think that this Chris guy has been pretty damn civil about this whole dumb ass topic. He really doesn't have any skin in the game because he doesn't even do CF, but just trying to make a point. Nobody on this board is ever going to win against Spoolin, so I don't understand why anyone even carries on the thread after he posts his opinion.

Thanks again for proving you can do nothing but generalize about CF which you clear don't fully understand. you really really don't fully understand it you just regurgitate what you have read elsewhere despite your claims otherwise
.

So now you are saying that I'm lying about my first hand experience with CrossFit? Do a search you can probably find threads from 5-6 years ago when I first started training with some CF coaches and I had no idea what it was, and through doing it, and becoming more educated about exercise and training I realized what a crock of **** most of it is.

Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik

Sorry someone messed up your business plan, don't be so bitter about it.

lol. I know it's fun for you to pretend I'm some butthurt business owner losing thousands to neighboring CF gyms, but the truth is as soon as our lease is up we'll be moving to a bigger and better location because we've grown so much in the past 2.5 years. We went from having 10 members to running multiple programs simultaneously in two adjacent training spaces, three full time coaches, two part time, and breaking our own record of sign ups in the slowest (statistically in the industry) month of the year.

Sure it's fun to discuss training methodology on the internet, but when it comes down to it, I don't give a **** what other gyms are doing, especially in my area. We strive to give people the best product we can, if they want to train with us, great, if they want to train at a CrossFit that is there choice and it's no loss of mine, because my business is booming.

Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik

You as the end user can make CF whatever the hell you want it to be.

I disagree. The reason you are paying for a coach is to get professional training. Most clients will do just about anything you tell them to do, which includes a lot of bull**** fitness like "hey why don't you try to clean and jerk 135lbs for 30 reps as quickly as possible" Or "how about you go squat 5 reps for max weight after running two miles..." It's not what you make of it. It's what your coaches make of it. I've run some ****ty workouts, and guess what, it wasn't my clients fault. It was my fault. It wasn't that they didn't know how to properly do the technique, it was just a bad pairing of movements, which is easy to do, and happens all the time in CF gyms.

Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik

CF is actually a great off season training tool for triathlon.

Oh really? That's weird...

Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik

Not every CF gym does the same thing, its a marketing tool that gets people searching and finding their business.

So you are allowed to make blanket statements about CF when it supports your opinion, but when I make a blanket statement that makes me bitter because someone spoiled my business plan? lol. GTFO

Originally Posted by VW1.8Tsunami

My biggest gripe is the cost.

If coaching is good, it's worth every penny, IMO. It's a way for people to work with a professional for a fraction of the cost of working a personal trainer, and the truth is most personal trainers just have you on a standardized program anyway (which sucks). To be honest the more experience I have with group training the less I like it, but it's a catch22. It's difficult to make a living doing 1 on 1 coaching.

Originally Posted by Papa Dras

I think that this Chris guy has been pretty damn civil about this whole dumb ass topic. He really doesn't have any skin in the game because he doesn't even do CF, but just trying to make a point. Nobody on this board is ever going to win against Spoolin, so I don't understand why anyone even carries on the thread after he posts his opinion.

You just stated you don't know anything about triathlon training, and you have proven you don't know anything about CF.

Why would you say something you know nothing about is weird. Why not actually try and say something instead of making a vague comment in an attempt to make it seem like you had a point.

No I stated it's not my area of expertise and I know people wouldn't get the results they are looking for, not to mention my facility isn't equipped with the things a triathlete needs to succeed. And just because I'm not a fan of how CF trains people and you are in no way "proves that I know nothing about CrossFit."

Even if I knew nothing about CF and nothing about triathalon training it doesn't change the fact that it is blatantly hypocritical for you to say that CF is just a marketing tool and that every crossfit is different, yet it is a great program for triathletes.

I actually said in the past that if i was in your area from what i have seen your Gym is one i'd be interesting in working out at. That it didn't seem to have the environment of gyms I don't get a good feeling about and would be comfortable there.

You of course responding with some snarky remark about how you won't waste your time reading anything I said.. despite the post actually been a compliment of you.

Unfortunately time reading your posts here have simply shown that I probably would not like it. Your attitude regardless of what you believe you do would easily show your dislike for athletic and exercise disciplines that differ from yours. I saw similar come out in the managment of my old gym and that is why many of the coaches left as well as members including myself.

You are extremely closed minded when it comes to fitness, I don't care how good of a coach you think you are that is detrimental to your clients. I'm an a-hole but I"m open minded, I'm willing to learn and if I don't know I research the crap out of things so I can learn. If a customer calls here and is like man all your competitors suck I tell them no they don't, because they really don't suck or they would have been out of business years ago they are just different which there is nothing wrong with. You are telling your potential customers all your competitors suck, that is piss poor marketing and gives me no idea why you are possibly better.

Instead of constantly telling everyone why CF is so wrong, why don't you actually try and tell people why the methods you believe in are right and what you recommend instead. I've never told a customer once why a competitor of mine is worse, I've only told them why I'm better.

^^^That's just a bunch of assumptions because you don't like that I think CF is an inadequate program and you are incapable of responding to the points I made about why it is an inadequate program.

I've given multiple examples of the things I dislike about the CrossFit program and all you've done is tell me that I'm lying, regurgitating info, that I'm bitter, closed minded, etc...

Now you're telling me what the atmosphere of my gym is like? You're telling me that I'm detrimental to my own clients? If you don't agree with my opinions of CF that's fine, but you know what they say about assumptions...

As far as the training we do here...I prefer strength based training, but we have a general fitness program that works mostly with body weight, plyometrics, kettlebells, and bands. We encourage all of our clients to live active lifestyles and frequently host guided hikes through the white Mountains (in fact there is a big group of clients going with one of the coaches on a zipline and treetop monkey bar course today). We encourage our clients to compete, whether it be in mud runs, triathalons, powerlifting meets, Weightlifting meets, summer softball leagues, etc...

Me personally I've qualified at the national level in Powerlifting, made state in track for sprinting when in high school. On top of basic PT and S&C certs Im certified in kettlebells, I'm attending a seminar on running in a few weeks, I currently compete in Weightlifting, and I enjoy long walks on the beach and canoeing.

And I do spend a lot of time talking to people about what fitness principals I have and methods I think they should use. But you keep forgetting we are in a "what is your opinion of CrossFit thread." I gave my opinion, you gave a rebuttal, and I did the same.

FWIW any HF member would always be welcome to train in my gym for free if they were in the area visiting, regardless of any discussions we've had here.

I'm not crying about everyone hating on it, feel free to hate on it if you have a valid point. You honestly and you alone do have a few valid points and I have not argued those. Not a single other poster has had an original thought on CF, they have simply regurgitated what they heard someone else say before.

1) You are crying
2) He is not the only person who said valid points, you just needed everyone elses valid points broken down into little boy words....
3) Who the hell are you to try and state that you know for a fact that people are just being haters and regurgitating info told to them ? Seriously? Im active duty military and I have to deal with about 95% of my coworkers loving crossfit... Trust me.. they dont give me extra ammo to spit at you.

To each there own... do whatever kinda workout you want... but dont try to even begin to sell crossfit off as a safe solution for out of shape people to start with...

Now you're telling me what the atmosphere of my gym is like? You're telling me that I'm detrimental to my own clients? If you don't agree with my opinions of CF that's fine, but you know what they say about assumptions...

I'm not talking about the atmosphere of your gym.. which i just stated I felt i would like.

What I am saying is that the attitude you convey here towards fitness is one that is very closed minded and there is no way to hide that.

I'm not making assumptions on that, I'm saying that this sort of close mindedness is not good in any industry whether it be fitness, cars or groceries.

1) You are crying
2) He is not the only person who said valid points, you just needed everyone elses valid points broken down into little boy words....
3) Who the hell are you to try and state that you know for a fact that people are just being haters and regurgitating info told to them ? Seriously? Im active duty military and I have to deal with about 95% of my coworkers loving crossfit... Trust me.. they dont give me extra ammo to spit at you.

Wow again not a single orginal thought and more personal attacks. usually a good way to make your point..

To each there own... do whatever kinda workout you want... but dont try to even begin to sell crossfit off as a safe solution for out of shape people to start with...

Wait.. what? Where did I say this?

If you weren't just repeating what other people said you'd realize that you are responding with statements that make no sense in the context of anything i have actually said.

If you weren't just repeating what other people said you'd realize that you are responding with statements that make no sense in the context of anything i have actually said.

No Christopher... Im gonna call you christopher because your acting like a little boy..

You never typed out this is safe for begginers... correct, let me give you a cookie.. however
I dont think you ever read the first page of this thread because the individal stated that he has been working 80hr weeks for the past couple years and has sporatically made it into the gym...

For you to promote it to someone who hasnt been regularly lifting is why i made that statement.
Since you need a damn explanation for everything..

But im pretty sure if i said CrossFit is awesome you would reply with something like "textbook" or "fact"

No Christopher... Im gonna call you christopher because your acting like a little boy..

Again is it not possible for you to have an adult conversation? I mean you are the one not making a single valid point, making personal attacks, and calling names yet you accuse others of being a little boy...

You never typed out this is safe for begginers... correct, let me give you a cookie.. however
I dont think you ever read the first page of this thread because the individal stated that he has been working 80hr weeks for the past couple years and has sporatically made it into the gym...

For you to promote it to someone who hasnt been regularly lifting is why i made that statement.
Since you need a damn explanation for everything..

Where did I ever say that the op should do it or even promote it to him or anyone else? Most of the arguments against it were not even directed towards the op and were just against CF in general. Those are the people I have interacted with. not a single comment I have made has been directed at the op.

If you are going to accuse others of not reading something you should yourself read what they are actually saying first.

But im pretty sure if i said CrossFit is awesome you would reply with something like "textbook" or "fact"

really because people have basically said just that in this thread and I haven't agreed with them.

Again is it not possible for you to have an adult conversation? I mean you are the one not making a single valid point, making personal attacks, and calling names yet you accuse others of being a little boy...

Where did I ever say that the op should do it or even promote it to him or anyone else? Most of the arguments against it were not even directed towards the op and were just against CF in general. Those are the people I have interacted with. not a single comment I have made has been directed at the op.

If you are going to accuse others of not reading something you should yourself read what they are actually saying first.

really because people have basically said just that in this thread and I haven't agreed with them.

Awesome could never be a fact.

A) personal attacks are way more fun....sorry If you take them to heart though, I just work in an all male careerfield and it's pretty standard ...

B) I totally wanted to say a joke about your mom and awesome and being a fact but I'll refrain...

C) I know you didn't directly tell the op to do crossfit but he gave you info an I feel like if everyone said yes do crossfit he would prob. Do it and potentially get hurt... I just feel like your defense to crossfit could have indirect influence on the op's decisions

Go watch the video of Jon North (The #1 ranked 94kg Weightlifter in this country) do the 30 rep clean and press workout for time, and you'll get to see his form break down right around half way...We're talking about the best weightlifter in his category in the country. If he can't do a CF workout with good form, then it has nothing to do with the coaching, it has to do with the programming.

never said I take them to heart, just that they show you have no real point to make.

B) I totally wanted to say a joke about your mom and awesome and being a fact but I'll refrain...

My mom is awesome. In HS most of my friends thought she was hot, she races my dads Porsche and miata, and is coming down in a few weeks to do my landscaping so I can sell my house.

Not sure what she has to do with the topic though.

C) I know you didn't directly tell the op to do crossfit but he gave you info an I feel like if everyone said yes do crossfit he would prob. Do it and potentially get hurt... I just feel like your defense to crossfit could have indirect influence on the op's decisions

So wait only yours and other opinions against CF are allowed to influence the OP? That doesn't make any sense. You actually didn't give him a single constrictive bit a criticism as to why he should not, you just regurgitated things you heard other people say and ranted about it.

You did also suggest him a book, so I am not saying you did nothing helpful.

-I noticed that most of the sprinters (800m or less) are ripped up and have solid upper bodies, especially the women. Yet, the longer distance runners have the lean physique. My theory is that the sprint is all about just raw power and that extra lean mass is benficial. This would be in part due to the type of training that is done in short distance running as opposed to distance. I mean, the arms and shoulders on the chicks are pretty crazy.