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Re: One-word Tolkien Trivia

You guys are killing me. The answer is obviously either Anakin or Dolly, both of whom are referenced by Tolkien in one of the Really Lost Tales.

I almost said Iarwain Ben-adar, but that's not actually one word. Whew, now that would have been embarrassing.

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Re: One-word Tolkien Trivia

You guys are killing me. The answer is obviously either Anakin or Dolly, both of whom are referenced by Tolkien in one of the Really Lost Tales.

I almost said Iarwain Ben-adar, but that's not actually one word. Whew, now that would have been embarrassing.

Ok BIGsmartA$$.You have it corect with Tom Bombadill. (Iarwain Ben-adar)
For the record, never intended for a one-word answer. Just a one-word clue.
Dolly was cute by the way.
Ok BIG. Its on you....lets have your clue.

And to Arasilion: Not saying that Eru has a father, just that no where is it stated (by JRRT) that he has one. (at least I can find no such statement)

We can quote where Ol' Yellow Boots is refered to as "fatherless".

"Just like Mary Shelly, Just like Frankenstein, Break your chains, Count your change, And try to walk the line"

Re: One-word Tolkien Trivia

Banazir?

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[/FONT][/I][FONT=Palatino Linotype]"From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold."[/FONT]
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Re: One-word Tolkien Trivia

Originally Posted by Arasilion

They don't even have fathers, do they? Aren't they the first Elves to ever awake?

From memory, Ingwe was the leader of the Vanyar; Finwe of the Noldor; and Elwe, with his brother Olwe was the leader of the Teleri. Lenwe was one of Elwe's followers, but he turned aside from the march with a large body of Teleri before they crossed the Misty Mountains, thus forming the Nandor. In no case is their father known, but it is unlikely that they were fatherless, ie, that they themselves awoke on the shores of Cuivienen.

According to the timeline of Middle-earth, there were 50 Valain years between the waking of the elves and the departure of Finwe, Ingwe, and Elwe as ambassadors to Aman. Depending on how you interpret that, that means there were around 500 to 7200 years between awakening and discovery. At a minimum, that is five generations, and at a maximum, 72, or approximately, between 5 and 72 successive doublings of the population. Therefore, at best, at the time of the embassy, only 1 in 32 living elves awoke by Cuivienen, and hence, any given elf (such as the ambassadors) had at best a 1 in 32 chance of being such an elf.

Accepting this low figure, of course, also means accepting a total Elvish population of approximately 5,500 at the time of the embassy; less the depredations of Morgoth. This is a very low figure for accounts of the passage of the Elves to Aman, so it is in fact likely that the higher figure (72 generations, and hence 72 successive doublings) is more accurate.

It might be argued that the leaders of the respective kindreds of the Elves were most likely amongst the first born (indeed, were the first three born according to the legend). However, it is just as likely that these first three had died due to the depredations of Morgoth. Certainly it is unlikely that Finwe (whose first child was born in Amman) or Elwe (who married Melian, and hence was unlikely to have been already married) were from that first generation, all of whom had wives whom they awoke next to (according to the legend).

Note: For convenience I have reffered to successive doublings, but if we follow Tolkien's account of the Elven life cycle, then elven populations would expand linearly rather than geometrically. That would mean after five generations, any living elf would have a 1 in 6 chance of being from the first generation, but the population would only be 6 times that of the initial population less depredations.