Audi wrote:My words reflect my own thoughts and understanding, rather than my teacher's words; however, at the seminar I attended, Master Yang used the word "control" over and over again.

I understand, Audi. I'm a Zheng Manqing guy and we don't that terminology. I'm sure if we met up and touched hands we could sort the issue out in about ten minutes. But for now, we should just chalk it up to stylistic differences.

Audi wrote:Given what you all have posted and commented, I wonder if it would be fruitful to examine the contrasts. The first line is pretty self evident, but in the second one we have contrasts between Qi 氣 and Jin 勁, between 以直 and 以曲, and between 養而無害 and 蓄而有餘

Although I'm not able to contribute much, I would certainly like to see this done.

Louis Swaim wrote:When we emulate the falcon, is it at the point where the falcon has spotted the rabbit and begun its dive, or at the point just above the rabbit on the ground, spreading its wings and stretching out its claws, or is it the whole progressive movement?

Louis Swaim wrote:This line of Wu Yuxiang's, 形如搏兔之鶻 "One's form is like a hawk (or falcon) seizing a rabbit" has always been a favorite of mine, and I've long suspected that Wu was referencing a chengyu that is used to describe great skill in calligraphy or in writing, 兔起鶻落 tù qǐ hú luò (literally, "the rabbit rises as the hawk lowers down.") I imagine Wu found this imagery evoking an almost simultaneous convergence of action between the predator and the prey perfectly applicable to taijiquan skill. So for me, it is less about the shape of the falcon, and more about her ability to focus, anticipate, and time her action into a sequenced flow.

So, Louis--We emulate the falcon at the point at which the falcon has spotted the rabbit, is poised in the air focused on her prey, judging the timing. No?

But as used today, "one fell swoop" tends to mean, "suddenly," and "all at once." That, and the closeness of the imagery of the kite's swoop, brought it to mind as something very much like the meaning of the taiji idea of emulating a falcon, and of accomplishing "integration into one qi."

THE YIN DOESN'T REQUIRED THE EXISTENCE OF YANG TO EXIST AND THE YANG DOESN'T REQUIRED THE EXISTENCE OF YIN TO BEING EXIST. THEY ARE TWO SEPARATED INDIVIDUAL WORKING AS A POLARITY PAIR, BUT EACH HAVE IT OWN NATURE. BUT THIS "MIDDLE" DOES NOT EXIST WITHOUT THE EXISTENCE THIS TWO, THE YIN YANG. THEY NEED THIS "MIDDLE" TO CONNECTING THEMSELVES. SO WHEN YOU TRANSLATED THE 'CONTROL" [YANG] 'IS ACTUALLY' THE "YIELD"[YIN]' . THIS DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A USER FRIENDLY BECAUSE IT A BIT CONFUSING TO THE 99.5% OF US. THAT WAS WHY I ASKED ,"ARE YOU SURE OF ALL THAT?" JUST TO COMPARE NOTES TO HEAR THE REST OF YOUR STORY.

I think I understand what you are trying to get at, but my understanding is somewhat different. There is no middle, and there is no Yin without Yang and no Yang without Yin. There is no Taiji without both Yin and Yang creating, destroying, helping, and fighting each other. One of my teachers once cited a sheet of paper to describe this. The top is Yang and the bottom is Yin. You cannot slice the paper to separate the top and the bottom. Even if somehow you could slice the sheet in two, you would not separate top from bottom, but merely create two tops and two bottoms. There is no real "middle." Even if we talk of the heavens as Yang, the earth as Yin, and humans as in the middle, this middle is really just a mixture of Yin and Yang. The pure Yang of the heavens and the pure Yin of the earth are beyond our knowledge and outside the Taiji.

Take care,Audi

Hi Audi,

Thank you so much for your side of the story. I was out of the country for two weeks and left the computer home. still in jet-leg, so I will just send along this for now...

My current teacher Master Chin of I Liq Chuan (Yi Li Chuan) say...Tai Chi have yin yang,but yin yang is not tai chi. to be tai chi yin yang must be one, to be one you must have three... so..

(1), 太极无三不成体. (Tai chi without three/the 3rd, no tai chi)

(2), 陰陽」相交為「中」，以「中」為中心旋轉. (when yin yang comes in contact, the contact point is the "middle" 「中」. apply this "middle" as the center for the yin yang to spiral into one....yin-middle(中)-yang (that is tai chi three as one)

(3), 王宗岳在這個時候採納了「宋易」「太極思維」的精華，以「陰陽」、「八卦」、「五行」為運動原則，以「心」、「氣」主客配合，以「中」為用，完善了太極拳的拳法和理論，「太極」是中華思維的核心。「中」就是「太極」，「太極」就是「中」( the yin yang is the principle , harmonized the yi as the primary and chi as supporting role and the application is on the "middle" . The "middle" is the tai chi. The tai chi is the "middle".)

(4),「中」，是一個蘊含了相對意義的詞。「中」本身是沒有義意的，它是相對其他東西而言才有意義。有「左」有「右」才有「中」，或有「上」有「下」才有「中」，或有「前」有「後」才有「中」，或者同時有「前」、有「後」，有「左」、有「右」，有「上」有、「下」才有「中」。「中」是相對「前、後」，「左、右」，「上、下」而言的。沒有「前、後；左、右；上、下」，就沒有「中」。所以說「中」，雖然沒有指明是「上、下」的「中」，是「左、右」的「中」，或「前、後」的「中」，但正包含了「上、下、左、右、前、後」六面八個方位的義意。( the "Middle" itself has no meaning of use. it would not exist without the polarity of two. it only appears between the space-and-time of right-left, up-down, front-back. If there is no right-left....there is no middle. thus when one say "Middle" there always including the three in tai chi)

(5), (where there is "yin/yang" there must be a "middle". because the middle is the 2 polarities' center point. two opposing pole but in one body, therefore have yin/yang there also have a "Middle" ) . 有「陰陽」一定有「中」....總的來說「中」是相對兩端的中點。這相對兩端千變萬化。古人用「陰陽」兩字來概括了所有對待的兩端。「陰陽」只是代號，可以代表任何相對待的事物。「陰陽」既是兩端，但又是一體，相分而又不能相離，離開了便不是「陰陽」。因為是一體，所以有「陰陽」一定有「中」，

(6), ( "yin/yang" contact point is the "middle". Saying the word "middle" without the words of "yin/yang", but it is already included the yin yang. one for three and three for one. sound like the three musketeers. Yin-Middle-yang= taichi, and taiji=yin-Middle 中-yang.)「陰陽」相接之處就是「中」。說「中」雖然不說「陰陽」，但已包含了「陰陽」在內。所以「陰、陽、中」是「涵三為一」的。說一就有三（「陰、陽、中」），說三（「陰、陽、中」）即是一，一而三，三而一。「陰、陽、中」是將具體事物的共性抽象，因為是共性的抽象，所以有普遍性。「陰、陽、中」的簡約便是「中」，是整體的濃縮。中華文化對「中」的研究十分深邃。從傳說的伏羲畫卦，文王演《易》，與及由《易經》而衍生的「陰陽」、「五行」、「太極」、《河圖》、《洛書》等，都是研究「陰、陽、中」「涵三為一」原則的學問。這些學問已有數千年的承傳，在中華文化形而上的思維方面固然影響深遠，對一般人日常生活的意識傾向及在器物應用上，已到了日用而不知的地步。

(7), (the essence of taiji quan is value on the complimentary of yin/yang. the essence of the complimentary of yin-yang is value on the "middle". ) 太極拳的精要在「陰陽相濟」，「陰陽相濟」的精要在「中」。提出「氣一元論」。張載認為「氣」充斥於宇宙所有空間，聚合時成為有形實物的「實」，分散時不是沒有，是看不見，拿不到的「虛」。這「虛」、「實」就是「陰」、「陽」。「陰」、「陽」都是「有」，。「陰」、「陽」雖然性質相反，但能相混和、相交融。「陰」、「陽」不分的整體是「一」，分「陰」「陽」是「二」，「陰」「陽」混和是「太和」﹐「太和」是「三」。「三」代表「陰」「陽」相混和千變萬化的各種形式，所以「三」代表多，代表萬事萬。萬事總是「陰陽」，「陰陽」相混成「太和一氣」，「太和一氣」就是萬物。萬物是「陰陽」的「中」，是「陰、陽、中」「涵三為一」的「中」。太極拳的精要在「陰陽相濟」，「陰陽相濟」的精要在「中」。

I submit this for you to review to show my taiji terminology is not all from the ILC (I Liq Chuan) personally they all the same to me only. ILC don't want me to said it. but they all talking of taiji, for taiji, by the taiji principle , and the taiji people said they don't have it that way. I only go for the taiji principle stuffs for my own study so sock it to me anyway you can. I go for the the essence of thing. I make up my own words as I go because my chinese is bad and my english is unspeakable.

My jet-leg did me in, so I let other to translate the rest..... The rest I go for it, good night.

Thank you so much for your best wishes. Fortunately, my family and I are safe and sound, having weathered both Hurricane Sandy and last week's nor'easter. Although our troubles were only very minor, many people in my area lost power, heat, and water for extended periods. Others had trees fall onto and smash their cars. A few people were killed as trees fell through their roofs or their walls. There are still issues with gasoline in some areas. Nearer the shore, there were, of course, also a number of drowning deaths when people did not flee the storm surge in time. We consider ourselves very lucky.

During the height of Sandy, when I was wondering whether our house would stay intact, I looked out my windows at the trees. We live in an area that has many of them throughout the neighborhood. It seemed as if the howling winds were determined to rip their tops off and hurl them through the air at the nearest houses. Luckily, the main winds blew in a direction that allowed most of the houses near me to screen each other, but I was quite concerned about one particular tree, a pin oak, that we had had planted perhaps over twenty years ago. It stands by itself in our back yard and has shaded more than one outdoor push hands practice with Tai Chi friends during the hot days of summer. Pin oaks do not shed their leaves in the winter, and so I was afraid the leaves would catch the wind, cause the top of the tree to snap, and send the broken top sailing through the air and crashing through one of my neighbor's family rooms that was not screened from the wind.

The tree looks like the one in this picture, although not quite as tall. As I watched the tree, the winds gusted every few seconds up to 80-90 miles per hour, making it far to dangerous to walk outside. I thought of the saying that advises being like grass and bending with the wind, instead of being like the rigid oak and being snapped by it. But this oak tree was not rigid and did not snap; instead, it pushed hands like a Tai Chi master and a scholar of full and empty. It twisted, it gyrated, it shivered and whipped around, often in ten directions at once during the space of half a second as the winds probed for weaknesses. The branches followed the speed of the wind, sometimes with blinding speed and sometimes at a leisurely pace. Even the trunk of the tree showed flexibility, which is something I have recently learned I need to show in my own spine. This struggle went on for hours, but the roots held firm and the tree still sits in my back yard as if nothing had happened. Some of the grass, however, was covered with debris.

Amid nature's fury, I was reminded not only of some of the joys and tragedies of life, but also that perseverance and flexibility can both have their place.

I would like to resume our discussion of Taiji. First I should make clear a few of my own assumptions.

First, these are very difficult concepts to put into useful words. Most attempts to do so tend necessarily to sacrifice some literal accuracy in order to illuminate the intended meaning. Said differently, it is often not the surface meaning that is important, but the meaning behind the words.

Second, different teachers of Tai Chi may add, omit, or emphasize different principles and thus create different experiences for themselves and their students. From the outside, it is very difficult to say whether any particular teaching is good or bad without knowing how it fits into the whole. Even then, if the experience is sufficiently different, it is hard to make any useful judgments beyond determining that it is indeed a different experience.

Your discussion of Taiji as the "middle" is clearly a well-thought out principle. I am unsure if it describes the same experience I have had or not, but have difficulty placing it at the top of the principles I have learned.

I have heard Master Yang use the word "middle" in two contexts at recent seminars. The first was an explanation of one way in which the Five Elements 五行 apply to our postures. As I understood it, he was saying that all postures should feel centered or harmonized, but that "middle" 中 in Chinese does not necessarily mean the center or middle of anything. At other times, I have heard him stress the word "settled" 定 that is usually used with "middle" 中 in the Chinese description of how the Five Elements relate to Tai Chi. We are told that each of our postures should reach a "settled" point where the movement stops, but does not stop.

A second context I have heard Master Yang use "middle" at recent seminars was to describe what he wants when we "relax and extend our limbs." He says that some practitioners of our form hold their joints too stiffly, whereas others hold them too limply. He says that we should be neither stiff nor limp, but somewhere in the middle, just as Tai Chi teaching often chooses a middle path between extremes.

At the same seminars I heard these teachings, I also heard Master Yang say that after mastering the basics of the postures (perhaps after 1-3 years??), it is important to start to feel the Yin-Yang change in the form: between empty and full, open and closed, up and down, curves and straight lines, left and right, etc. At least to me, this teaching sounds in conflict with the teaching that says we should search for a middle path; however, in practice, I believe different strategies apply to different situations and to different aspects of practice.

Even the Ten Essentials do not emphasize the same approach to all Taiji/Yin-Yang pairs. For inner and outer, we are told to join/unite them 合. For upper and lower, we are told to have them follow each other 相随. For empty and full, we are told to divide them 分. In our form and push hands practice, sometimes what is important about Taiji and Yin-Yang Theory is that Yin and Yang cannot exist apart from each other. Sometimes what is important is that one can control the other. At other times, what is important is that one creates the other. Depending on the circumstance, we focus on uniting extremes, alternating them, or separating them.

I have also been taught that sometimes it is important to divide Yin and Yang into a further Yin and Yang and thus understand the Four Images 四象. Some of our counters to applications require distinguishing between immature Yang and mature Yang, etc. While some practitioners seem to teach that the only appropriate response to Yang is to offer Yin, that is not what I understand about our teaching. Even though you cannot "resist," there are multiple possibilities to deal with a potential attack, not all of which include a simple yielding motion.

Hopefully, this clarifies the approach I was trying to explain. Unfortunately, I find it easier to discuss these things in person where I can physically demonstrate what I have been taught.

Audi wrote:Your discussion of Taiji as the "middle" is clearly a well-thought out principle. I am unsure if it describes the same experience I have had or not, but have difficulty placing it at the top of the principles I have learned.

Audi,

The ‘middle’ (or ‘neutral’) in ILC has not to my knowledge been expressed clearly in TJQ, but to me it is compatible with various aspects practiced in TJQ.

In ILQ there are several levels for ‘neutral’ including the mental, within the practitioner’s body, as well as in the interaction with a partner/opponent.

In brief, the mental neutral in ILC is recognizing things as they actually are, uninfluenced by our biases (likes and dislikes; lack of knowledge; judgments).

The ‘neutral’ in the ILC practitioner’s body share many common principles with TJQ, like suspending the crown of the head, keeping the shoulders over the hips, etc. The idea is to maintain the separation of yin and yang by maintaining the ‘neutral’ between them. The ‘neutral’ axis of the body (in both ILC & TJQ) is on the line between the crown of the head and the perineum. In ILC there are additional dividing lines between the front and back of the body, as well as the line separating the right from the left sides of the body, the yin and yang surfaces of the body, and the yin and yang muscles. These ‘neutrals’ aid the ILC practitioner in keeping actions and energies appropriate to their respective sides. The nearest equivalent to the ILC concept of the ‘neutral’ is TJQ’s ‘central equilibrium’, although the ILC concept, in my opinion, is more clearly defined. A loss of ‘central equilibrium’ in TJQ is often due to a ‘violation’ of the ILC principle of maintaining the ‘neutral’.

Both yslim and I have briefly mentioned aspects of the ‘neutral’ with respect to a partner/opponent. In general, if a TJQ practitioner maintains spherical energy during interactions, the properties of a sphere interacting with something in contact with it would naturally produce something like the ‘neutral’ as practiced in ILC.

It may be difficult to understand these concepts in a brief forum post, but I hope that this helps you to gain some level of understanding.

I thought of another way of illustrating the ‘neutral’ of ILC to make the concept more easily understandable in the context of TJQ.

In TJQ we want to be able to clearly differentiate between yin and yang, but we also know that yin and yang form a complementary pair that forms a complete whole. So, like in the taijitu (taiji diagram) the yin and yang touch at the ‘s-curve’ between them. By clearly defining the ‘neutral’ in ILC, we can clearly differentiate the yin from the yang (i.e. the yin will be on one side of the ‘neutral’ ‘s-curve’ while the yang would be of the other side). As long as we maintain our ‘neutral’ we will clearly differentiate between the yin and the yang sides.

If the ‘neutral’ is not maintained, then a practitioner may emphasize yang and think that the other side, being less yang, is yin when it is actually still yang (or emphasize yin and think that the less yin side is yang when it is actually still yin).

I would like to resume our discussion of Taiji. First I should make clear a few of my own assumptions.

HI AUDIWELCOME BACK FROM THE HARM'S WAY. "IT IS GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK WHERE YOU BELONG".

First, these are very difficult concepts to put into useful words. Most attempts to do so tend necessarily to sacrifice some literal accuracy in order to illuminate the intended meaning. Said differently, it is often not the surface meaning that is important, but the meaning behind the words.

Second, different teachers of Tai Chi may add, omit, or emphasize different principles and thus create different experiences for themselves and their students. From the outside, it is very difficult to say whether any particular teaching is good or bad without knowing how it fits into the whole. Even then, if the experience is sufficiently different, it is hard to make any useful judgments beyond determining that it is indeed a different experience.

I AGREE WITH YOU. AFTER ALL THAT SAID AND DONE. THE BOOKS AND I ARE WELL WORN AND AGED. IT STILL COMES DOWN TO A PROCESS OF LEARNING. BUT DID WE HAVE FUN?.

Your discussion of Taiji as the "middle" is clearly a well-thought out principle. I am unsure if it describes the same experience I have had or not, but have difficulty placing it at the top of the principles I have learned.

AUDI YOU HAVE TO DO THE TRANSLATION YOURSELF….TRY THIS FOR SIZE: 。總的來說，「中」是相對兩端的中點。這相對兩端千變萬化。古人用「陰陽」兩字來概括了所有對待的兩端。「陰陽」只是代號，可以代表任何相對待的事物。「陰陽」既是兩端，但又是一體，相分而又不能相離，離開了便不是「陰陽」。因為是一體，所以有「陰陽」一定有「中」，「陰陽」相接之處就是「中」。說「中」雖然不說「陰陽」，但已包含了「陰陽」在內。所以「陰、陽、中」是「涵三為一」的。說一就有三（「陰、陽、中」），說三（「陰、陽、中」）即是一，一而三，三而一。「陰、陽、中」是將具體事物的共性抽象，因為是共性的抽象，所以有普遍性。「陰、陽、中」的簡約便是「中」，是整體的濃縮。

MY INTENTION OF THIS DISCUSSION IS NOT "TAIJI AS THE "MIDDLE". MAYBE I DIDN'T MAKE IT CLEAR. I WAS TRYING TO POINT OUT THE AWARENESS OF THE「中」"MIDDLE" OFTEN GOES "ABSENT WITH OUT LEAVE. "TAIJI HAS YIN YANG. BUT YIN YANG IS NOT TAIJI. TO BE TAIJI. YI YANG MUST BE ONE. TO BE ONE .THEY MUST HAVE THREE.(THE MIDDLE,中.) IN YOUR CASE THE "MIDDLE' WENT "A.W.O.L."A PHYSICAL DEMONSTRATION: (?) ANY TAIJI PRACTITIONER IN PAIRS ARE ABLE TO DO THIS AND TEST YOURSELF AT THE SAME TIME. STAND IN ANY OPEN STANCE, LIKE A HORSE WILL DO. PUT OUT ONE OR BOTH ARM EXTENDED ALL THE WAY AT A 45 DEGREE ANGLE (FOR THE COMPORT) TO LEFT OR RIGHT, IT IS YOUR CHOICE, UP TO SHOULDER HIGH. LIKE A "WAVE HAND LIKE CLOUD". OR JUST TO SWING THE ARMS ALL THE WAY FROM SIDE TO SIDE AS A WARM-UP. MENTALLY DIVIDE YOUR BODY IN HALF DOWN THE MIDDLE WITH A PLUMB LINE AS AN IMAGINARY MARKER FOR THE "MIDDLE". THE LEFT HALF IS CALLED YANG SO THE RIGHT WILL BE LABELLED AS YIN. NOW ACTION: HAVE YOUR PARTNER HOLD ON TO YOUR WRIST(S) WITH MINIUM RESISTANCE. IF YOU START FROM THE RIGHT, SWING TO THE LEFT WITH BOTH HANDS AS A STATIONERY WARM-UP OR WAVE HANDS LIKE CLOUD IN MOVING STEP IN ONE BREATH IT DOESN'T MATTER. WHAT MATTERS THE MOST IS WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO WHEN YOU ARE ABOUT TO GO THROUGH THE "MIDDLE"? IT IS NOT SO GOOD IF ONE DOESN'T REMEMBER THIS "MIDDLE", AND WORST YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IT IS THERE. HAVE YOUR PARTNER BRING OUT THE CELL PHONE AND VIDEO THE WHOLE ACTION FOR LATER REVEIW. (TO DOUBLE CHECK YOUR ACTION IN SLOW MOTION WHAT YOU DID OR DID NOT DO WHILE YOU ARE IN THIS MIDDLE BETWEEN YOUR RIGHT AND LEFT). WHEN YOU JUST ABOUT TO ENTER THE MIDDLE/CENTER YOU SHOULD START TO SONG THE KUAS , MELTING THE BUTT. TURN THE SACRUM TO MAKE A LOOP-AROUND WITH THE SPINE/MINGMEN (USE THE YI MORE THAN THE PHYSICAL) TO FEEL THAT "MOST COMFORTABLE CENTER SPOT", YOU ARE IN A NEITHER YIN NOR YANG. THIS IS YOUR "MIDDLE" POINT!! YOU CAN MAKE TWO SUBTLE LOOPS IF YOU ENJOY IT, THAT WILL GIVE YOU A "SETTLING-DOWN" SENSATION. JUST BEFORE IT LOOP/SPIN THE HANDS OVER FROM YIN TO YANG. (YOUR YI LOOP SHOULD BE BIG AND THE SPINE LOOPING IS VERY SUBTLE!)AT THE MIDDLE POINT STATION YOUR OPPONENT WILL BEGIN TO RESIT FOR NOT WANTING TO BE PULLED OVER. BUT BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW TO DO THIS "SETTLING DOWN", TO BE IN YOUR "NEUTRAL" FOR THAT SPLIT OF SECOND HE FEELS NEITHER YIN NOR YANG ON YOU ,THAT CONFUSES HIS INTENTION. TAIJI CALLS THIS "TO CAPTURE HIS YI". AS YOU LOOP AROUND YOUR SPINE/MINGMEN HE FEELS HIS HEEL BEING LIFTED OFF HIS 'ROOT' DURING HIS CONFUSED MOMENT. BY THE TIME YOU HAVE SPUN OVER TO THE YANG SIDE, SO DID HE…WITH TUMBLING OFF BALANCE. MOST LIKELY HE WILL BE BUFFALOED. WITHOUT THE "MIDDLE' YOU CAN ONLY "DAY-DREAM" ABOUT TAIJI. BUT TO MAKE IT INTO REALITY ONE NEEDS TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS THAT THE YIN NEEDS THE "MIDDLE" TO CARRY/LOOP OVER TO THE YANG ,TOGETHER AS ONE BODY FOR THE TAIJI DAY DREAM TO COME TRUE. THE MIDDLE IS A PIVOTAL POINT FOR THE YIN YANG TO HARMONIZE AND CREATE THE "TAIJI" FORCE. THIS IS JUST A CAUTION TO ALL PRACTITIONERS: IF ONE KNOWS WHERE THIS 'MIDDLE' IS AND HOW TO USE IT THEN YOU CAN HAVE A TAIJI MOVEMENT. THE EFFORT BECOMES EFFORTLESS. OTHERWISE IT WILL BE AN ALL OUT EFFORT.

YOU AND YOUR PARTNER MAY EXCHANGE POSITION SO YOU CAN FEEL WHAT HE/SHE ARE DOING WHEN THEY ARRIVE AT THE "MIDDLE POINT". WITH YOUR HIGH LEVEL OF TAIJI SKILL. YOU WILL HAVE NO TROUBLE TO FEEL THEY WILL JUST ADD MORE PULLING FORCE FROM THEIR SHOULDER AND TIGHTENING THEIR BUTT, WHEN YOU GIVE THEM A MINIUM RESIST. THEY WILL HAVE A HARD TIME TO DO THEIR "YIN YANG MUST HAVE MIDDLE" MOVEMENT TO FINISH YOU OFF YOUR BALANCE. THEY CAN'T CALL 911 CENTRAL. BECAUSE THE CENTRAL IS NOT ON TOP OF THIER PRIORITY MINE-SET LISTING, EVEN AT TIME LIKE THIS. IF YOU JUST LET GO OF YOUR HOLDING THEY WILL FALL.

OF COURSE, ONE STILL CAN FINISH THE FIGHT. BUT WHO HE HAS THE "MIDDLE" HOLD THE "WILD CARD".

I HOPE THIS WON'T SENT US TO WHERE THE BUFFALOED ROAM.HAVE A NICE TAIJI DAYCIAO YSLIM PS. MY LARGE PRINT IS NOT FOR SCREAMING..IT IS TOO GOOD FOR THAT.

My question is not quite a follow on to this thread but wondered if you could help. Numerous wonderful discussions on the site but thought I would leap in with my one. I was taught the long form by Graham Horwood who died about a year ago. During his classes he taught how each move corresponded to given meridians, organs and an I Ching trigram. Whether the move was open or closed, yin in-breath, martial application etc. An inspiring teacher and also a Jungian psychotherapist. Unfortunatley I was not taking notes during the class and am left trying to piece together a map of the form from memories and notes.

There are some rich and interesting discussions on the site I am looking forward to explore further. Alas I can not find such a move by move in depth map of the form. I don't doubt details are discussed but does anyone know if a book exists laying out the information clearly. Graham was taught by Master Chu who I believe was Yang Cheng Fu's adopted Grandson. Hope that I have got that right. No other Tai Chi teachers that I have contacted seem to have such information and wish to corroborate it all before I forget all the rich detail that he taught.

All the best and look forward to exploring the site further. Hope that someone can help me on my quest and many thanks,

marko wrote:... does anyone know if a book exists laying out the information clearly.

Marko,

“T’ai Chi Ch’uan and I Ching” by Da Liu may give you some information. I have never met anyone who studied Taijiquan the way that your teacher taught you, and I doubt that it is very prevalent. For me personally, the information in Da Liu’s book was more of a curiosity than anything else, and for the way that I practice, the book had very little that I found useful. The information seemed rather incomplete (it is not a move by move ‘map’) and somewhat arbitrary (i.e. it seemed like the author’s personal attempt to correlate Taijiquan with the hexagrams of the Yijing). Since your background is different from mine, perhaps you would get some value from his book.

yslim wrote:MY INTENTION OF THIS DISCUSSION IS NOT "TAIJI AS THE "MIDDLE". MAYBE I DIDN'T MAKE IT CLEAR. I WAS TRYING TO POINT OUT THE AWARENESS OF THE「中」"MIDDLE" OFTEN GOES "ABSENT WITH OUT LEAVE. "TAIJI HAS YIN YANG. BUT YIN YANG IS NOT TAIJI. TO BE TAIJI. YI YANG MUST BE ONE. TO BE ONE .THEY MUST HAVE THREE.(THE MIDDLE,中.)

yslim (& others),

I think that Taijiquan incorporates the principle of the ‘center’ (‘neutral’) within its philosophy, but typically uses phrases like ‘no excess, no deficiency’ instead (as well as ‘central equilibrium’, ‘differentiate empty & full’, ‘double weighting’, etc.). While ‘no excess, no deficiency’ emphasizes the duality of yin and yang, there must be something in-between excess and deficiency in order to be neither one nor the other. This is the ‘center’ (‘neutral’) that ILC names. IMHO it is a matter of different arts expressing similar concepts using different terminology.

Stuart Olson’s book “T’ai Chi According to the I Ching” is more systematic and complete (has all 64 hexagrams and aligns the sequences of the Yang style Taijiquan form with the sequence of the Yijing).