A new post is up at Making Game of Thrones, this one written when filming wrapped in Belfast about a month ago.

It’s the last week of filming the second season of Game of Thrones in Belfast. Everyday, someone else from the cast and crew wraps for the year, and “goodbye” is probably one of the most spoken words of each day. For most people the last week is a combination of desperate tiredness and already looking forward to the possibility of Season 3.

The last scene shot of the whole series is one with Bran, Hodor, Rickon and Osha. Of course, the weather in Northern Ireland has chosen to bid us farewell in its usual schizophrenic way. When I arrive in the late afternoon, just in time for the final few shoots, we are at the top of a hill overlooking rolling green fields that could be right off of a postcard. Soon though, the sky darkens and clouds roll in on strong winds, and in minutes we are being battered by pounding, freezing rain.

Winter Is Coming: That final shot, assuming it is from the last episode, is the final nail in the Reeds coffin, it would seem. For this season, at least.

They can probably work them in later, if necessary. A random encounter with the “bog devils” who help them on their way. If not, though… well, I like the Reeds as much as anyone, but are they absolutely essential to the plot?

That said, of course, this presents an interesting puzzle about whether Osha and Rickon will still part ways with Bran. Would she really leave Bran alone with Hodor? I doubt it, but if she stays with Bran, how will that affect the plot?

John:
Cool.Umm..You know there is a spoiler chapter from Winds of Winter on GRRM’s page, right?! How come there’s no post about it??O.o

As Steve/Sue the Pirate says (have you explained why you’re Steve the Pirate here and Sue the Pirate everywhere else?), we focus on the TV series here. Sometimes we will make a post about the books, when there is big news to report (like Dance being published), but for little things like sample chapters or progress updates from GRRM, we don’t generally cover that stuff.

Yeah, I like the Reeds in the books, but their only IMPORTANT purposes (so far) are to give Bran a little context and to give Osha the ability to split off so Bran isn’t left alone with Hodor.

Osha can easily be given a lil more knowledge of spiritual/psychic things to serve that half, and it SEEMS like she won’t be splitting off.

Of course when GRRM gets around to telling us what Rickon and Osha have been up to, or if they intersect other characters, the tv show might get thrown for a loop…… but so far there isn’t a reason they couldn’t all be travelling north together.

It would (or will) be odd to have just Bran and Hodor traipsing around the northern lands in a time of war and other dangers. Especially so seeing as how Hodor is a bit touched to say the least. I personally don’t have any qualms with changing this part of the story for them to not separate. That is of course with having little knowledge of where Rickon’s and Osha’s stories are heading in the novels.

I think Natalie Tena’s performance as Osha probably had the most to do with this. But two more actors cut from the budget couldn’t have hurt.

It’s still disappointing, because I like the Reeds. I’m almost certain Osha will stay with Bran. So the question is, do they pass off Rickon to someone else (like where-ever he ends up or a Flint or Norrey or something), introduce the Reeds later (seems clumsy and cuts those cost savings down significantly), or bring him along with Bran? I suppose killing him off is an option as well.

dizzy_34:
Well I suppose they could encounter them on the way or split the group up after they meet Coldhands. However this begs the question about Reek Ramsey. How do they get around excluding him?

How do you know that they did? Perhaps there was simply no announcement. There’s a decent assumption in the initial post that that final shot would have the Reeds in it, but the character you are talking about wouldn’t be in it.

It’d be a bad cut, even though I could understand the concern with casting someone, paying them for at least 3 seasons without actually using them, then keeping them for a possible sixth season that may never come. Still, trying to introduce him then would require some machinations.

That’s how I feel too. I find the TV series’ Osha more interesting than the book’s Reeds frankly. I do wonder about the Rickon/ Bran split and how they will handle that now. I cannot see Hodor and Bran off on their own. Coldhands could possibly take Bran and Hodor if they all stay together that far. They could introduce the Reeds later too.

One other aspect about the Reeds that is intriguing, but not necessarily important is their connection to the one living man in the series that witnessed what happened in the Tower of Joy. I always wondered if Howland told his kids about the incident….

“Bran, Hodor, Rickon and Osha” at the top of a hill… Does that mean they are leaving Winterfell? Burning it down this season means no Reek/Ramsay, and that it simply outrageous. I don’t care about the Reeds, the story can continue without them or they can be introduced along the way, but introducing Reek later makes little sense. And without Reek/Ramsay there is no point in turning Theon into Reek, and it’s one of the series’ most fascinating plots.
I’m deeply concerned… :(

The big problem with that theory: Why would Osha take them north? She’s dead set on getting “as far south as south goes.” I guess Bran could have another dream where the crow tells him they have to go to the Wall, but until we see that onscreen I’m holding out hope that the Reeds will find them while they’re heading south early in S3 and they’ll split up then.

And, of course, I’m praying to R’hllor that this means we will be getting someone that rhymes with magnifique.

Interesting. Why on earth would they openly mention that those characters feature in the last shot of the series if they follow the plot of the books and have them seemingly killed? Three possible explanations I can see: 1) That’s pushed back too. 2) It’s just an oversight. 3) It won’t be as big an uncertainty in the show.

As for the Reeds, I’m not sure we’ll get them both but I’ll eat my hat if a Mojen character doesn’t join them in the next series as a supporting character. Could bulk out Bran’s trek prior to his bumping into Jon.

Winter Is Coming: As Steve/Sue the Pirate says (have you explained why you’re Steve the Pirate here and Sue the Pirate everywhere else?), we focus on the TV series here. Sometimes we will make a post about the books, when there is big news to report (like Dance being published), but for little things like sample chapters or progress updates from GRRM, we don’t generally cover that stuff.

OK cool. So then if anyone who doesn’t know about it yet (like if it’s even possible..) and will run into my comment, will be aware of this – I’ve done my service :)
Anyway, as for the show. The absence of the Reeds is not a big deal to me. Might be they will get their introduction in season 3 or not at all, I don’t really care. But what about Ramsay? I hope he won’t be excluded from the show entirely. (I see now someone shares my concerns about the matter)

Winter Is Coming: As Steve/Sue the Pirate says (have you explained why you’re Steve the Pirate here and Sue the Pirate everywhere else?)

Because I use the name Steve the Pirate (the awesomest Dodgeball character) on several boards, but when I signed up for twitter, I wanted to have my own name in there, since I get tired of explaining I’m not a guy. But I’m still a pirate. You can call me whatever you want here, I don’t care.

Hmmm, aren’t you making a pile out of nothing? (is that how you say it?) Just because they say that the last shot is of them, why assume it is an omen of the non-existence of the Reeds in the season? Its like grasping at smoke, for all intends and purposes.

Anyways, don’t really care much :) either way. Besides, only Jolly Martin and the Dynamic Duo would know :P

Ya, I was wondering about that, too. Kinda ruins the big reveal at the end.Lisa,

You could be right, of course. Also, I’m sure there aren’t that many people that read the MGoT posts, and its about six months til the last episode airs, but it just seems weird that they would mention it like that.

I’d say that the (possible) exclusion of the Reed’s isn’t that big of a deal for the time being. My guess would be that we will be seeing Reek/(Ramsey) and the Reed’s, however it won’t be until the beginning of season three. If the Winterfell storyline were to end where it does in the second novel, it wouldn’t leave much for Theon and several other characters to do in the third (and presumably, fourth) season/s. I’d also wager that we’ll be seeing an introduction for the characters in the Riverlands’ in early season three, as well. It makes sense, from a production stand-point, to push these things back.

The early portions of A Storm of Swords aren’t necessarily packed with critical events, and moving these introductions (and the continuation of the storyline at Winterfell) back to the third season allows the writers time to work them into the story in a way that is more logical and appropriate for television. It also allows characters who don’t have much to do (or who don’t appear at all) to stay in the action.

I wonder if my first impression of which scene was being discussed may be off base and Hodor, Bran, Rickon and Osha together is something more mundane….. Not exiting Winterfell after its sacking.

With Ramsay Snow not cast, I wonder if they will pass off the burning of Winterfell and Theon’s torment to Roose or someone else….. or if they may push back that storyline to Season 3. At least Reek and Theon’s story. I would think Theon’s capture and torment has to be included in the series at some point. It was too powerful to leave out of the series.

Ya, it could be that this is their “escape” from Winterfell, just before they double back and sneak into the crypts. They could even have the final scene be Theon (and possibly Reek) returning to Winterfell with the miller’s boys’ heads, leaving the audience to believe that Bran & Rickon are dead the entire time between seasons. Not sure even D&D are that cruel, though.

Eh, the conspicuous absence of Ramsay Bolton, AKA Reek the Second is far more troubling than the lack of those two little moss-eyed weirdos in my opinion. Harsh, but still… eh.

I just can’t fathom why he’d be cut. Realistically, the colossal success of the TV adaptions has more than likely paved the way to a decent amount of seasons. Ramsay is essential to a lot of that. Integral. He’s Joffrey ten years later and ten times crueler, and that’s a brilliant hook to roll with after seeing the epic reactions to our sweet Joff.

I’m so disappointed. I can only hold out hope that he’s been subtly cast already, or that, at worse, the role he’d have played is done tastefully with the same sort of eerie wickedness by another character. Who, I have no idea; the Bastard of Bolton isn’t the sort of role a sidekick can really take over. He’s Roose’s bloody son for Christ sake. He has (or should have) an awesome, enigmatic, and evil arc ahead of him.

Heh, well, Ramsay Bolton’s northern reign of terror and his utterly horrific treatment of my man Theon is some of Martin’s best writing. Ever. It’s haunting; it would be a massive shame to miss out on this sick fuck because some idiot wanted to cut a few corners, and rob the story of one of its most unpredictable and emotionally wrenching twists, and more importantly, one of its most infamous and important villains.

How in the name of R’hllor does Rorge get a cast, yet not Ramsay? Ugh…

I’m still holding out hope that the majority of the Winterfell plot line is being pushed the still-hypothetical “next season”… This explains the absence of the Reeds as well as Ramsay…

I feel like all three are too integral to the story in the future to be allowed to be cut… AT WORST, I expect that they’ll be introduced in S3, in scenarios that are slightly different than in the books…

This blurb doesn’t say in what context the scene with Bran, Rickon, Osha, and Hodor involves, and it could just be one of their few scenes this season, with them being a bigger TV focus in the future…

It might be the four travel together south to somewhere like Greywater Watch first, just to hide out, but meet the Reeds there in the next season and are told Bran must go north. So then the Reeds join them, Osha and Rickon stays with the crannogmen, instead of going to Skagos.

Or, they all go to Skagos first. Reeds show up there in the fourth season and tells Bran he must go to 3EC, and they go with him, while Osha stays with Rickon.

No Reeds, no Ramsay, no young Freys. What exactly will Bran be doing this season?

D&D have earned a certain amount of faith, but GRRM’s story is like Jenga. Pull out one piece, the whole thing can come tumbling down. Like for instance, Robb and Catelynn’s actions in season two will lose a lot of sympathy if they don’t think Bran and Rickon are dead.</

I am willing to bet a hundred dollars that season 2 ends with the Ironmen taking Winterfell and the Fist of the First Men. Ramsay will be mentioned in season 2 and we will meet him in season 3 along with the Reeds and Tullys. Having the burning of Winterfell and Ramsay gives Roose away too early. I have a feeling they plan to have the RW and the burning occur almost simultaneously. Not having the Tullys save money for the production in season 2 and allows for a new location in season 3, mainly Riverrun, Highgarden and the Twins. The best way to reintroduce the Freys will be through the Tullys.

I dunno how anyone can make the argument that they aren’t needed. Most, but nearly all side-character were cut. Sansa, Dany, Robb, Cat, Jon and Tyrion all still have over half a dozen characters to have dialogue with. Bran has ONE left.

Osha and Bran talking is all we’ll see on that angle for three seasons. And Tonks is good, but not that good. This was the last place where the should’ve cut the fat.

Wow, glad that I read all the books;), honestly spoiler your post, I know you can.
I still have a shred of hope that we will get the reeds in S2, but otherwise it is possible that the Reeds/Reek/Winterfell burning/Tullys is pushed to S3. If they really get two Seasons for book 3, there would be enough running time to put these scenes in.
It is also a nice way to keep from omitting an actor for a whole season (Theon would only appear later in the comined AFFC/ADWD season)
Honestly I cannot believe that they would cut Reek for good, would be like cutting Gollum from LOTR or Boba Fett from Star Wars…

Have Osha travel with Bran, Hodor and Rickon to the Wall, then she will go with Rickon to wherever she went in the books (because she will not go back north) and Hodor and Bran get with Coldhands. Problem solved. Whatever mystical crap Reeds say to Bran can be transferred to Osha.

Yes, I don’t care about Reeds. Any scene with them was waste of space in the books.

Leaving out the Reeds, Ramsay and the Tullys means a lot of storyline changes in later seasons. And unless D&D already know the end of the whole story, they could run into serious trouble with that since you never know when side characters might become important at some point. Or their knowledge of certain events… And there’s stuff the Reeds know that can’t be transferred to Osha or anyone else.

Sorry about the spoilers. I will stop doing posts like that on my iPhone as the spoilers do not seem to be working.

And how do you know I’m wrong? Isn’t a guy allowed to speculate? As for your response to Laila….Is that really necessary? Who are you supposed to be…Epic? I swear I make some speculations which is what this fucking site is all about in the first place and you attack me every god damn time. What the bloody hell is your problem?

At least I will have the satisfaction to prove you wrong if some of the shit I have mentioned will end up happening.

It’s really a shame if the Reeds are not a part of season 2 (which looks almost certain now). All you folks saying they are not “necessary” to the plot, consider this: there are other reasons for characters to exist than to move the plot from A to B in the shortest possible line.

The Reeds were a connection to a part of Westeros pre-history that we don’t see much else in the books. Likewise a connection to Ned’s past & his peers (like Howland). Likewise a bit of cool stuff with animal magic, warging, etc. In a story filled with mighty and powerful knights and lords, it was very cool having some humble, earthy crannogmen provide a different tone for a few chapters. It’s really a shame if the Reeds are not a part of season 2 (which looks almost certain now).

I really wish someone with access to GRRM, D&D, HBO, etc. that would actually know would just ask the following question in an interview.

“There is growing concern that characters deemed important in the books are going to be eliminated in the television adaptation. Folks like the Reed siblings, Ramsay Bolton, and various Tully kin. Can you set the record straight?”

Then we’d have our answer, and all this speculation would cease.

Sure, it is something to talk about for us fans. However, it can also have negative consequences (ie. folks losing interest in the show).

I completely agree about Howland, the Tower of Joy, the Tourney at Harrenhal. I also agree that even if Howland was not integral to the backstory (and future story regarding Jon’s parents) I completely agree that the Reeds are an interesting and unique set of down-to-earth characters that you don’t see in fantasy very often. I understand that child actors are a bit of extra work, but really only Jojen is a child. Meera is more of a young adult (assuming she is aged like the other teenagers on the show were). And if that is too much, then just Meera (with added Greensight capabilities) would be fine. Plus Bran needs someone to have a crush on, and Osha (as great as her character is) just won’t cut it.

Everyone needs to relax a bit regarding the elimination of the Reeds Tullys and Reek/Ramsay Snow/Bolton and just have some faith in D&D. I am confident that they will have a quite faithfull adaptation of GRRM’s story. There are already a significant amount of new characters and locations being introduced in season 2 to go along with an already loaded cast of characters. I am 100% confident that Ramsay and the Tullys (including blackfish) will be introduced in season 3 and about 75% sure the Reeds will be introduced as well. -

darquemode: their connection to the one living man in the series that witnessed what happened in the Tower of Joy. I always wondered if Howland told his kids about the incident….

The Rabbit and I were discussing this and I made the same point – if not Meera then who? She reminded me that there is another route for this information to come out – as the Rabbit put it – trees trees trees :D

Well put good Ser. Season 2 will be outstanding. It will NOT follow the book exactly. Some elements (like RIVERRUN) will be pushed back to season 3. Some others (like Jaime/Brienne) will be pushed forward. Other elements will be expanded upon (like Robb in the field). I thought book 1 was adapted very well to screen. All subtle changes for the most part such as Drogos fight, Ned pointing out Arya to Yoren etc were small improvements in MY book haha. The only change that i didnt like was giving Hounds story to LF. But looking ahead i can see why that alteration was made. Having LF and Sansa breifly interact there sets up events that unfold in the future and shows me that D&D have a LONG TERM VISION for the show moving forward. Have faith my friends. -

At first I’d guessed some of Bran and Theon’s chapters were being pushed back to season 3. That would have given Theon something to do in the third season and shortened Bran’s trip to the Wall to something more believable. It took Jon and Tyrion one episode to reach the Wall, so it shouldn’t take Bran 1 1/2 – 2 seasons to do the same. Also, while A Storm of Swords is most readers’ favorite book, that’s mostly because of the final 1/3 of the book, most of which would not be covered until the fourth season. So having the sack of Winterfell occur in the middle of the third season would help spice up the slower parts of the novel. So I figured season 2 would end with Theon taking Winterfell.

But filming updates have disproven my theory. We know they did some filming with tracking dogs in Northern Ireland, so we can conclude Bran’s escape from Winterfell will happen in the second season. And the final shot being Bran, Osha, Rickon, and Hodor suggests they are leaving off at the same place as the novel.

They could have the Bolton host show up in the finale and kill Ser Rodrik and his men without a prior introduction of Reek, but that leaves a massive problem. Theon would have no reason to trust the Boltons and open the gates of Winterfell to them. About the only scenario I can come up with that plausibly makes sense is Theon begs Yara to send reinforcements to Winterfell. Later, when the Boltons attack Ser Rodrik and his men, they are disguised as Ironborn. Theon lets them in, thinking Yara has relieved him, but when they get a closer look at them, Black Lorren doesn’t recognize them and realizes they aren’t Ironborn, and all hell breaks loose.

Regarding Howland Reed, I am wondering if the lack of any real exploration of the backstory – no flashbacks thus far, no mention of the Tower of Joy, very little mention of the Targ dynasty in any detail the way they did in the books, I would not be at all surprised if they cut the Reeds entirely…unless of course GRRM has plans for Howland in the last books that we are not privy to…and who knows? I certainly did not expect to see Wyman Manderley play such a pivotal part in the last book!

As far as Meera and Jojen, my guess is that BRAN will be the one having Jojen’s green dreams, that they will be connected to the three eyed raven, and that Osha will be the one to tell him “Green dreams do not lie.” I can see Bran waking up after seeing the sea crash over the walls of Winterfell. Meera’s role is pretty minor, and I could see Bran taking on Jojen’s predictions role, just being unable to interpret any of it.

They could do the story without the Reeds. Bran & Hodor could meet up with Coldhands at The Wall, & go on with him…. Or even keep Bran, Rickon, Osha & Hodor together through all of it. Though I’m excited about the prospect of Skagos

Ya, it could be that this is their “escape” from Winterfell, just before they double back and sneak into the crypts. They could even have the final scene be Theon (and possibly Reek) returning to Winterfell with the miller’s boys’ heads, leaving the audience to believe that Bran & Rickon are dead the entire time between seasons.Not sure even D&D are that cruel, though.

I could see Osha taking the Reeds’ part somehow- so much has been said about how much everyone likes Tena’s interpretation of the role, I doubt they’d pass up a chance to give her more to do. There are various ways around it (including introducing the Reeds later on).

houndlover:
They could do the story without the Reeds. Bran & Hodor could meet up with Coldhands at The Wall,& go on with him…. Or even keep Bran, Rickon, Osha & Hodor together through all of it. Though I’m excited about the prospect of Skagos

Sorry about this message… I did press the *spoiler* key, but my computer went all funny when I posted so obv it didn’t work. Stoopid computer!

I mentioned it before, but I would be shocked if D&D cast an actor and locked them up for the future when they are in Book 2 and Book 5, but not in Book 3/4. Even if Book 4 and 5 are done somewhat simultaneously, that’s two seasons of nothing for that actor.

I can see three paths:

1) Pay the cash and get the same actor.
2) Reference the character now but change the actions they do now to be a lieutenant of theirs in their name or a completely unrelated character doing the action. Introduce the character later.
3) Recast if necessary and take your chances.
I’d do the last, but I could see #2 being done, especially since D&D may not be hopeful about seeing this storyline in TV season 5 or 6.

There may be more to the Reeds than we know thus far, but I always took them as a continuation of theme. So much of ASoIaF is “past is prologue” and history, if not actually repeating itself, shedding light on current times. There seems to be many possible connections between the Blackfyre Rebellion and this current state of affairs.

I thought of the Reed kids as a connection to Howland Reed and to Robert’s Rebellion. So I guess I thought it was more important “who” they are than “what” they are going to do in the saga. That could all change in future books of course, or it’s entirely possible the Reeds are there as a vehicle for revealing who Jon Snow’s parents truly are at some future pivotal moment.

I’m not sure they are needed as integral parts of the saga or at the very least they are not needed in Season 2. If they are basically guides, anyone can do that job. If they are mentors to Bran for his Green dreams, Osha can do that job. However, if they are to be the revealers of Jon’s parentage I am not sure who could replace them. Possibly Varys sincee he seems to knows many of the Seven Kingdoms’ histories and secrets.

Has anyone seen any pcitures of a Targaryen Season 1 DVD Press Kit?
Winter got the Stark version, Westeros got the Lannister version, I saw someone else online got the Lannister kit too, and I saw pictures of the Baratheon Pres Kit.

I would think there very well could be – if not should be – a Tagaryen version around somewhere…..

I just saw Mark Addy as Pumblechook (Dickens´s Great Expectations) wearing a curly wig. Not very regal indeed. The signs of drunkenness on his face are the same as those of King Bob. A very good Pumblechook by the way.

Silver hair and pale with skin peeling around her lips. Creepy as anything. Her performance is great, but very unlike most of her other period piece roles I have seen. She seriously is pulling off the PTSD crazylady thing very, very well!

Also get to see a back-to-brunette Harry Lloyd as Mr. Pocket! He’s great too.

What most people don’t get is that it cost money for actors. Child actors come with their own problems as well. If they name so and so as Blackfish. Then he gets SAG wages and gets an increase each season. Same with the Reeds and Reek. So to save money and have an awesome Battle of Blackwater Bay. They cut characters until further seasons when they can be utilized properly

Which is why I’d understand if they cut Davos’ on Matthos, Cleftjaw, Rorge, Biter. Hell, they could’ve cut Jeyne and used the same actress for Meera since they are basically the same age and Jeyne doesn’t get introduced until season 3. But they don’t. They cut out a great deal of the dialogue what fills Bran’s already meagre storyline.

And Blackfish’s character can’t be utilised properly if he has two scenes with Robb before he dies. Being Robb’s most trusted subordinate is the whole point of his character and why we should care when he disappears. Blackfish shouldn’t even be on the table anymore.

“She looks a Targaryen that’s been left out in the sun too long”…but without the tan.
She´s way too skinny but still pretty. The truth is I’m not sure if I like her interpretation of Miss Havisham. I mean, it´s very good and reminds me of German Expressionism´s characters (in silent films early twentieth century), that I truly adore but for a Dickens´s play, her characterization seems a bit strange. We’ll see, just saw the first episode. Young Pip is great and also the actor who plays Joe. Harry Lloyd must be in later episodes.

andrea,
I thought Anderson’s Havisham was a bit out of place too. She grew on me, but it did not feel like how Dickens wrote it or would have pictured it (in my limited opinion).

That said, I did think ti was well done and I felt the neurosis (or maybe psychosis?). From the way she held herself or piches her own flesh, to the ocassional breaks she has nad goes from the lowkey and almost absent to the manic panic.

darquemode: how Dickens wrote it or would have pictured it (in my limited opinion).

I felt the same but I don´t care. I’ll wait to see how evolves. The problem is that it seem hard to get out of this characterization (backward or forward). Still, I love that expressionist look.

darquemode: I did think ti was well done and I felt the neurosis (or maybe psychosis?).

There is no evident neurosis in Dickens´s characters (and when someone is evil is not because of madness). This one (from the show I mean) is a modern way to explain this character I think. Isn´t necessary for me but it´s OK, it´s interesting. I would say it´s a psychosis though. You´re right, it was well done.
I think D&D did the same with Cersei in GoT. They´re trying to explain her twisted personality.

Agreed, my two little Reed’s also help to develop Bran as a character and realize he can’t make certain decisions. It is not just their knowledge concerning the past that is most intriguing but it is the way they do it which is the most fascinating and helps to keep Bran’s arc alive.
If by keeping Osha in a taking them to the wall, it leaves soon much of this and more non transferable. By saying that Osha has the knowledge of the Reeds to Bran after all this time will seem a little clumsy and will also show the lack of care towards the characters. Oh now I know this stuff you will come with me and do as I say, etc. It will make watching it silly and bizzare that this wasn’t touched on before and as a few people have mentioned already, going north is the last thing on her mind, she wants out because of the Others waking up and causing havoc