It's a shame the code 8 doesn't have pre filter gain... I remember ColJ saying if you enable a bunch of the waveforms you can drive the filter harder.... but it's not the same... It would make the difference between it and the OBX smaller.. as the latter sounds like it's overdriving the filter pretty hard, although the VCA prob is has a bunch to do with it too.
I had a 777 with prefilter gain... can't believe so many synths are without same feature.. so cool for soundsculpting.
Anyway still think they did an amazing job on the Code 8, you're really up against it when it comes to using modern compoents to get in the same ballpark as vintage gear.. Now I wonder what a Macbeth 8 Voice would sound like.

Yeah the video I posted shows the sound with all the waveforms enabled, gets quite a lot louder!

You can also feed the voice output back into the filter input - there is a set for every voice. That will overdrive it some more I think - like the Minimoog, I didn't get to try it out. Needs a 8 jack multicore cable to keep the mess down....

SE Code 8/omega, A6, and Mks80 for the more modern VCO ones with factory midi
Jupiter 8, CS80, Prophet 10 are some of the older ones.

A6 has the most voices, and modern features of the lot, and is in many ways a modular like synth in a keyboard.
It has a sound of it's own, but at the same time can be a chamleon due to the facilities it has and sound shaping options

I have a Code8, an OB-X, MKS70 and an Xpander for poly synthesis, And a Cwejman S1mkIIand a MiniMoog D for mono stuff. IMO the Code is one of the best polys out there. i had an Andromeda and a PEK recently (and a MKS80 & OB-Xa way back) and I don't really miss them with the Code.

I have a Code8, an OB-X, MKS70 and an Xpander for poly synthesis, And a Cwejman S1mkIIand a MiniMoog D for mono stuff. IMO the Code is one of the best polys out there. i had an Andromeda and a PEK recently (and a MKS80 & OB-Xa way back) and I don't really miss them with the Code.

Code is for simple sounds - Andromeda is for heavily modulated and more snappy sounds and everything inbetween - especially drum sounds.
It's an "analog workstation" like the Korg, Roland, Yamaha digital stuff

Code is just a traditional 80s polysynth with a bit more multi-timbrality
Just depends on your work flow and creativity angle

Andromeda can do most of what the Code does, but doesn't sound as big, organic or thick out of the box, but some programming, modulation, unison options from the excess polyphony and post processing in the mix can fix that. They sound quite similar in terms of overall tonal colour - they use similar filter types after all.

The reverse isn't true, and the A6 can be a lot more aggressive and nasty than the Code, which tends to sound polite most of the time - which may or may not be a good thing depending on your music and uses.

Honestly going both is a pretty cool idea itself... add an MKS80 and you have a nice trio of fairly modern analogs, and all are multi-timbral.
I could write a lot of good music with only those 3 and a DAW!
2 racks and nice keyboard with ribbon controller to control them from

here is an example of the kind of stuff you can fart around with on the A6 in an afternoon and directly shoot it into your DAW without anything else needed

Just a latched arp - with progression mode switched on
raw output directly into my audio interface - unprocessed
Dual sawtooth waves into 12db high pass filter and a 24db low pass filter in series with a touch of filter feedback. A bit like the CS80 filter setup on the Code 8

Delay is also from the Andromeda - mimicking tape delay

Something about the Andromeda's main outs sounds like analog tape - kinda like a Studer in sound - good for Boards of Canada vibes
So if you want that shiny precise Roland hard lazer zap sound, it's not that easy to coax it from the A6.

Although some post processing with certain preamps/bus compressors hard or soft can change the tone drasticly. Sounds pretty fat with the Nebula Fatso bus compressor on it

Really like how you make it sound smooth and delicate. Very low levels, right?

---

I dream of having them modded to sound like the aux outs. Or, even better, like the individual ones.

yes -always
Also running the filters in series with some filter feedback makes it sound more "delicate" and Roland like

My VCA envelope level was set to 60, filter1 to 50, filter2 to 40. Both VCOs to around 20 (they do overdrive at these levels when filter 1 has high resonance as per the SEM filter - same for the Code 8, but nowhere near as much as the A6 which tends to saturate just a bit too much)
Filter envelope level also set to about 55 - improves the resolution

You could probably mod the opamps. Mike Peake, one of the devs mentioned this a long time ago. Otherwise just run all the individual voice outs into a 16 channel summing box or line mixer - but you won't get the FX and analog distortion outputs - which actually benefit from the "tape" sound

Running the A6 into the Nebula N-Ten-AT4 (Never 1084 console preamp+EQ) gives you that Roland like sheen and harmonics if needed
See clip below - the same recording processed with N-TEN-AT4

---

Speaking of resolution, with the faster processors we have no now, man an A6/Code 8 with humble dual core an Arm processor could do wonders. 1ms or less envelope times, with continously variable stage shapes, plus audiorate LFOs with 24bit resolution perhaps, and much faster engine update times?
Silentway VST CV/Midi + modulation, proved you can do that stuff in 24 bit 96khz resolution on a modern desktop without much CPU load and with smooth, analog like behaviour just using any 24bit audio interface with DC coupled outputs....

You could probably mode the opamps. Mike Peake, one of the devs mentioned this a long time ago.

I also think it's realistic. More at least than my fantasies of upgrading that poor old coldfire by a fourth or fifth generation one. Actually, a tech will come this summer to fix my desk, I'll ask him to take a look at the A6.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

Speaking of resolution, with the faster processors we have no now, man an A6/Code 8 with humble dual core Arm processor could do wonders. 1ms or less envelope times, with continously variable stage shapes, plus audiorate LFOs with 24bit resolution perhaps, and much faster engine update times?
Silentway VST CV/Midi + modulation, proved you can do that stuff in 24 bit 96khz resolution on a modern desktop without much CPU load and with smooth, analog like behaviour just using any 24bit audio interface with DC coupled outputs....

Colin had been posting on TGS at the time, lamenting the extended wait for his already paid-for order...
We built him one from the rescued parts, tested it, and sent it out. IIRC, there weren't enough parts to built two.

Code is for simple sounds - Andromeda is for heavily modulated and more snappy sounds and everything inbetween - especially drum sounds.
It's an "analog workstation" like the Korg, Roland, Yamaha digital stuff

Code is just a traditional 80s polysynth with a bit more multi-timbrality
Just depends on your work flow and creativity angle

Andromeda can do most of what the Code does, but doesn't sound as big, organic or thick out of the box, but some programming, modulation, unison options from the excess polyphony and post processing in the mix can fix that. They sound quite similar in terms of overall tonal colour - they use similar filter types after all.

The reverse isn't true, and the A6 can be a lot more aggressive and nasty than the Code, which tends to sound polite most of the time - which may or may not be a good thing depending on your music and uses.

Honestly going both is a pretty cool idea itself... add an MKS80 and you have a nice trio of fairly modern analogs, and all are multi-timbral.
I could write a lot of good music with only those 3 and a DAW!
2 racks and nice keyboard with ribbon controller to control them from

First of all - thanks for the demo's - Spent some time listening on your youtube etc..

I finally had a change to try one of the 400 Code 8's in the mkt and BY accident! Anyways - I absolutely loved it. The sound is mind bending. i wouldn't say it sounds like an older vintage..It sounds like a monster 80's poly analogue. End of. It has its own sound and is definately more refined from the short time i spent with it.

OTB I dont think the andy came close in tone and well the way it made me feel. That being said you stated this above but also referenced that there are ways around that on the Andy! Which i'm sure you're right. My workflow is all about dialling in gorgeous timbres and then using some basic modulation to provide a movement of some kind. Wether that be a fast moving LFO with some resonance modulation and manually rocking the cut off to some gentle vibrato. I dont generally program complex modulations within my genre. Its the raw tone and timbre that attract me to a synth.

For that reason I'm close to pulling the trigger on the Code! So why am i posting...Well you're comments - being that you have owned both - regarding the Andy have me intrigued!

Firstly no one can deny the outrageous amounts of options available on the Andy and more importantly its digital effects stage which really does open up a whole host of opportunity. I can probably find one for cheaper etc etc..

So tell me! What is it you need to do with the Andy to give you that full rich sound vs the Code8 and more importantly if you didn't have either and Money was NO question..which would you select and why.

How does the 24db ladder style filter on the A6 compare --- What about those arp /cs-80 filters? How would you reproduce that? Also in the Andy which has 16 voices are you able to route filter per voice?

You can get some very CS80-ish timbres from the Andy thanks to the serial filters. It's an amazing synth and I'm very impressed Alesis managed to bring it out at all. I just wish they would have made spin-off products like an 8-voice rack or a monosynth. It's such a same that the ASICS technology only made it to one product. I love the Andromeda, and if I were to have only one analog that might be it, but I love variation and with the Code and the OB-X the Andromeda was overlapping too much, the Xpander fit the picture better.

On the Andy, I'd make sure to turn background and temperature tuning off. Getting huge sounds and sweeps is generally not a problem. If you want insanely huge pads and sweeps, plug the separate outputs into a 16-ch mixer and slightly plan the voices - or even better, use plan automation on all 16 channels in your DAW - sonic Nirvana...

Let's remember that this is a matter of taste; for me the Code8 really does it. For others, not so much. You HAVE to try synths before purchase to know what they'll feel like to YOU, but sometimes that can be hard. I've owned an SE1, an ATC and an ATC-X, so I knew I dig the basic tone of the SE synths.

I don't own a code ..I'm close to.getting one and found one to play with for a few hrs which confirmed what I had heard. When I hear others selling im intrigued as to why..that being said I appreciate your feedback.

And yes! I loved the tone. I understand what others mean when they say it is clean but my collection of sound mangling stomp boxes and effects can deal with that plus se can do a minimoog vca upgrade with a switch to route signal to standard vs mod vca too! It isn't cheap but hey its worth noting.

First of all - thanks for the demo's - Spent some time listening on your youtube etc..

I finally had a change to try one of the 400 Code 8's in the mkt and BY accident! Anyways - I absolutely loved it. The sound is mind bending. i wouldn't say it sounds like an older vintage..It sounds like a monster 80's poly analogue. End of. It has its own sound and is definately more refined from the short time i spent with it.

OTB I dont think the andy came close in tone and well the way it made me feel. That being said you stated this above but also referenced that there are ways around that on the Andy! Which i'm sure you're right. My workflow is all about dialling in gorgeous timbres and then using some basic modulation to provide a movement of some kind. Wether that be a fast moving LFO with some resonance modulation and manually rocking the cut off to some gentle vibrato. I dont generally program complex modulations within my genre. Its the raw tone and timbre that attract me to a synth.

For that reason I'm close to pulling the trigger on the Code! So why am i posting...Well you're comments - being that you have owned both - regarding the Andy have me intrigued!

Firstly no one can deny the outrageous amounts of options available on the Andy and more importantly its digital effects stage which really does open up a whole host of opportunity. I can probably find one for cheaper etc etc..

So tell me! What is it you need to do with the Andy to give you that full rich sound vs the Code8 and more importantly if you didn't have either and Money was NO question..which would you select and why.

How does the 24db ladder style filter on the A6 compare --- What about those arp /cs-80 filters? How would you reproduce that? Also in the Andy which has 16 voices are you able to route filter per voice?

If I had the choose between them I'd still go for the A6, because I've always been a bang for the buck guy, and prefer things that can be more creative and do new types of sounds with more options. And I like snappier synths as a general rule. I'm more a mad scientist type so I like the detail - less so these days though...

The A6 has a stereo filter input that goes to voices 15 and 16. I sometimes use it to create a 24db SEM filter by feeding one of the voices back into it to double up the filters, and then stacking the patches in multimode to act as one, and use midi to control the second patch via the front panel knobs at the same time - attached clip of this, plus filtering my TX816 FM synth and SH2. All envelopes, VCA, LFOs etc are active when doing this

Generally speaking Code is more creamy than the A6, which has a harder sound, and more fat in the mid range. A6 doesn't have the same dynamic range in the VCA as other synths so you need to keep the levels very low, unless you like a squashed sound
VCO are the weak link in the A6 vs discrete synths. You can hear it in that SH2 filtering clip - the filters sound fine with the SH2 VCOs, which sound larger, more creamy and more open.

The Moog filters on both sound rather similar - ie nothing like a Moog filter!
Well I used to own a Minimoog so I'm aware of the Moog sound, and both sound too muted and flat compared to that, especially in the resonance. Having said that, I am able to get good Minimoog impressions on the A6 when the Minimoog is in 16' setting - can't match the 32' growl of the Mini with either synth. You can create patches on the A6 that make you think - yep that sounds like a Moog.
Code 8 - not so, too mellow and slow for that. Which surprised me considering the Code has more discrete filters...

So run the filters in series - 12db HPF into the Moog, but it's not quite the same as the Moog is less open/warmer, will self oscillate, and 24db vs 12db LPF on the CS80 filter on the Code 8, well GX-1 filter if you ask me!
You could feed one patch back into the filter input on the A6 to get a proper 12db HPF into 12sb LPF

Jam with a CS80'ish patch - A6 lead direct to DAW, with Minimoog and SH2 bass through Xtramix before entering DAW. Unprocessed, just some delay on the SH2 amd reverb on the A6

Arp filter - not sure, never tried, but you can do all kinda filter slopes on the A6 by blending the various filters in the post filter mixer and using the feedback or not. You could mix the SEM BPF and Moog filter together in parallel to get a more raspy tone like the Arp as an example.
Check the 6 pole filter clip below - running both LPF filter in series for a unique sound.

Here is my attempt at emulating a basic Code 8 sound on the A6
JP8 doing the arp. The patch is available below - link

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

Emulating my recently departed Studio Electronics Omega Code 8 on the Andromeda
Well at least my memory of it and my demo here

Added a Jupiter 8 latched arp line for interest

I turned on square, saw and triangle for both oscillators like I did on the Code 8 plus the sub-oscillator set it 27.8 to make that fat sawtooth sound. Both set to around 3.2. to 3.8 on the mixer.
Yes very low in volume, but this way the 12db filter does not saturate too much with the resonance up.

I have red noise routed to oscillator 1's linear FM, at 0.5.
And oscillator 2 has voice key number routed to it's frequency, by 0.02 and with an offset of -0.1 to get that loosing tracking all discrete analog synths have. For a creamier sound

I then have a triangle LFO routed to the sample and hold, with sampled hold on, and then routed this to the voice pan to get mimic the Code8's individual voice pan function for nice stereo spreading, if a bit more random in nature

Still something was missing. That thick Code 8 juicy tone. Cranking the filter feedback on to 33 did the trick I think!
Only thing is this causes the12db Band pass filter to self oscillate when I switch to it later in the the clip, but turning it off fixes that

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

Patch using the Moog filter, but any of the other can be used, you just have to reduce the oscillator
levels to around 3+ for both when using the 12db filter with high resonance to reduce the saturation.
And remove the filter feedback when using the band pass filter to avoid self oscillation

More Code style tone on the Andromeda - using the "Moog" filter with more resonance (some filter feedback knob is used). It reminds me of the typical Code/Omega sound - that sorta stereo spread greasy sound

Wow. Did you pushed the post filters levels or are they equally low? That said, A6 sound terrific like this. Tight, smooth and almost bright.

Quote:

The A6 has a stereo filter input that goes to voices 15 and 16. I sometimes use it to create a 24db SEM filter by feeding one of the voices back into it to double up the filters, and then stacking the patches in multimode to act as one, and use midi to control the second patch via the front panel knobs at the same time - attached clip of this

Already borrowed that trick from you but didn't tried it yet. Result is mind blowing!

Quote:

VCO are the weak link in the A6 vs discrete synths. You can hear it in that SH2 filtering clip - the filters sound fine with the SH2 VCOs, which sound larger, more creamy and more open.

Agree. A6's agressivity come from the vco's and vca's. The dullness you hear in many demos come from the vca's pushed too hard, the very dark sounding fx and those f%@king main outs. For the filters, I dare to give them the ultimate adjective: they're liquid! Make for a nice balance.

Firstly, Thank you so much for taking the time to illustrate a constrictive point with reference. I totally understand your point after listening to those clips! More importantly it has helped me reach the conclusion! The timbre you're looking for which the A6 clearly delivers does, as you correctly pointed display more of the characteristics associated with the added noise and heat from the VCA. The timbre as you articulately stated on the Code is more creamy - it is a cleaner tone and doesn't have that true grit you appear to resonate to..I can also understand how many options you have available to you and why the Andy would satisfy those requirements..Its a monster!

All this being said - the fundamental US tone and timbre /that cream/those MIDS is what im looking for! The code has a sound..it's the sound I want..I describe it as an almost modern take.

The digital envelopes have changed - I hear they are plenty snappy now...And with the choice of a MOOG style VCA with a witch to redirect signal (cool mod) my mind is made up.

From what i have heard and my limited experience with both i honestly believe that I will be working harder to make the andy sound how i naturally and mentally work. The A6 is clearly a flexible monster /more so than the Code and what i have learnt from this thread is that the question we should be asking ourselves is - which one sounds better to us. This is totally subjective. I feel like if i want that classic vintage tone i would probably get a vintage synth in the vein of.

The code gives me a modern take on that - while the Andy appears capable i really think it's magic kicks off with those wilder patches/textures and modulation options..For raw tone the Code continues to resonate with me..Personally I think both would be the way to go! The real question is which comes first!

Additionally after some discussions with Reptil i think the semi modular route using the independent outs and OSC splits available some external filters and other funky madness could get involved.

I have a number of gorgeous stomp boxes that would love to have there way with the Codes signal. In my experience especially with regard to harmonic distortion I find those mid forward signals to benefit most! I love the sound of brass into a culture vulture..especially that classic vinyl tone.

This is why i love the prophet 8 - not because its a super synth but it gives me that fizzy brass and a raw tone that works in the context of my music and the mix..I honestly think the Code would deliver a similar enjoyment based on what i have heard.

Thanks so much for the good advice and laying down the facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

If I had the choose between them I'd still go for the A6, because I've always been a bang for the buck guy, and prefer things that can be more creative and do new types of sounds with more options. And I like snappier synths as a general rule. I'm more a mad scientist type so I like the detail - less so these days though...

The A6 has a stereo filter input that goes to voices 15 and 16. I sometimes use it to create a 24db SEM filter by feeding one of the voices back into it to double up the filters, and then stacking the patches in multimode to act as one, and use midi to control the second patch via the front panel knobs at the same time - attached clip of this, plus filtering my TX816 FM synth and SH2. All envelopes, VCA, LFOs etc are active when doing this

Generally speaking Code is more creamy than the A6, which has a harder sound, and more fat in the mid range. A6 doesn't have the same dynamic range in the VCA as other synths so you need to keep the levels very low, unless you like a squashed sound
VCO are the weak link in the A6 vs discrete synths. You can hear it in that SH2 filtering clip - the filters sound fine with the SH2 VCOs, which sound larger, more creamy and more open.

The Moog filters on both sound rather similar - ie nothing like a Moog filter!
Well I used to own a Minimoog so I'm aware of the Moog sound, and both sound too muted and flat compared to that, especially in the resonance. Having said that, I am able to get good Minimoog impressions on the A6 when the Minimoog is in 16' setting - can't match the 32' growl of the Mini with either synth. You can create patches on the A6 that make you think - yep that sounds like a Moog.
Code 8 - not so, too mellow and slow for that. Which surprised me considering the Code has more discrete filters...

So run the filters in series - 12db HPF into the Moog, but it's not quite the same as the Moog is less open/warmer, will self oscillate, and 24db vs 12db LPF on the CS80 filter on the Code 8, well GX-1 filter if you ask me!
You could feed one patch back into the filter input on the A6 to get a proper 12db HPF into 12sb LPF

Jam with a CS80'ish patch - A6 lead direct to DAW, with Minimoog and SH2 bass through Xtramix before entering DAW. Unprocessed, just some delay on the SH2 amd reverb on the A6

Arp filter - not sure, never tried, but you can do all kinda filter slopes on the A6 by blending the various filters in the post filter mixer and using the feedback or not. You could mix the SEM BPF and Moog filter together in parallel to get a more raspy tone like the Arp as an example.
Check the 6 pole filter clip below - running both LPF filter in series for a unique sound.

Here is my attempt at emulating a basic Code 8 sound on the A6
JP8 doing the arp. The patch is available below - link

The digital envelopes have changed - I hear they are plenty snappy now...And with the choice of a MOOG style VCA with a witch to redirect signal (cool mod) my mind is made up.

I don't know about that - seemed pretty slow in my Code 8 which was less than 6 months old

I have had some units which are pretty fast -
Minimoog, sub 1ms
SH2 around 1ms
JP8 pretty fast, I'd say around 1ms
A6 around 2ms but can be shaped to sound slightly faster

Code seemed a lot slower than all of them, and others like the Juno 106, Mks-80 - probably the slowest synth here, or maybe on par with my X0Xb0X TB-303 clone
Only way to get a semblance of snap is to invert the envelope, which is what I did in a lot of my demos.
There is always a "wonk" with a positive envelope, and high envelope modulation, instead a "thwarp"
Even then, the VCA envelope will still be slow.

I don't know about that - seemed pretty slow in my Code 8 which was less than 6 months old

I have had some units which are pretty fast -
Minimoog, sub 1ms
SH2 around 1ms
JP8 pretty fast, I'd say around 1ms
A6 around 2ms but can be shaped to sound slightly faster

Code seemed a lot slower than all of them, and others like the Juno 106, Mks-80 - probably the slowest synth here, or maybe on par with my X0Xb0X TB-303 clone
Only way to get a semblance of snap is to invert the envelope, which is what I did in a lot of my demos.
There is always a "wonk" with a positive envelope, and high envelope modulation, instead a "thwarp"
Even then, the VCA envelope will still be slow.

Interesting! Ill ask Greg!

You really are not helping!!! just kidding . I'm torn between these two now! Both can do what i want..One is significantly more expensive..One has a sweet tone/timbre i love! The other has the ability but needs more work! Jesus COOL HELP ME im about to melt down!

Wow. Did you pushed the post filters levels or are they equally low? That said, A6 sound terrific like this. Tight, smooth and almost bright.

Agree. A6's agressivity come from the vco's and vca's. The dullness you hear in many demos come from the vca's pushed too hard, the very dark sounding fx and those f%@king main outs. For the filters, I dare to give them the ultimate adjective: they're liquid! Make for a nice balance.

Post filter levels are about normal - 40-60 or so. Remeber the 12db gets way louder when resonance is turned up, because it overdrives the oscillators, that's why you need to turn them down to compenstate

The VCA envelope level has a big impact on the sound, separate from the main level knob, which I didn't realise until recently
Using the sine/triangle wave as a test tone can reveal much on a wavescope

When I listened to some clips I did when I first got the A6, they sounded so squashed because I wasn't aware of the gain staging issues it had. Had everything at 100%, like uggly oggy mush...