Vietnam used to be almost closed for foreign vehicles, the ability to cross at one particular border station is just months old, and I'm hoping its not just some mistake, that they will correct once they find it out.

So I doubt there are many shipments out of Hanoi. I'm sure it COULD be arranged, but price could be a issue, and Bangkok-Kathmandu is about 700-1000 usd for a bike, so could make more sense to go to Bangkok. In fact your shipment could well get routed via BKK anyway. Particularly airfreight moves most cost-efficiently, when you use the big hubs, and places accessible by direct flights from these hubs.

I'd like to see as much as possible, but I don't want to just rush through everything. I want to see the people and explore and absorb the cultures. Not just cruse through as fast as possible. I'll be learning more as I ride more and gain experience. Perhaps I'll change the route again.

Click to expand...

Does not suit what you said when you said this:

I plan on being ruthless for Australia and most of Europe. Long days - like 8 hours of riding. I'll have a Corbin seat. And be ruthless. I'm not on a strict timeframe, but 5 months will be a big test.

Vietnam used to be almost closed for foreign vehicles, the ability to cross at one particular border station is just months old, and I'm hoping its not just some mistake, that they will correct once they find it out.

So I doubt there are many shipments out of Hanoi. I'm sure it COULD be arranged, but price could be a issue, and Bangkok-Kathmandu is about 700-1000 usd for a bike, so could make more sense to go to Bangkok. In fact your shipment could well get routed via BKK anyway. Particularly airfreight moves most cost-efficiently, when you use the big hubs, and places accessible by direct flights from these hubs.

Click to expand...

I think this route through Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and back into Thailand will work (assuming multi-entry visas work). Basically just going the opposite direction I had proposed. Not an issue. I didn't have any reason to go the way I had originally planned. This route is about 5600km, which is maybe a little longer than the other way, but not by much. This alleviates the no shipping out of Vietnam issue, but still allows me to travel through much of the area. If I read up a bunch on Vietnam, maybe I'll jump across the border for a bit without my bike. It's all possible.

Also I've been rethinking the India to Tajikistan route, which is about 9600km. Fly into Nepal, ride around India, then go up into Jammu and Kashmir on the eastern side of the area then come down the western side, going through Jammu, Srinagar, Kargil and Leh all the way to New Delhi were I can catch a flight to Dushanbe, Tajikistan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I.Will.Ride.On.Mars
I'd like to see as much as possible, but I don't want to just rush through everything. I want to see the people and explore and absorb the cultures. Not just cruse through as fast as possible. I'll be learning more as I ride more and gain experience. Perhaps I'll change the route again.

Does not suit what you said when you said this:
Quote:
I plan on being ruthless for Australia and most of Europe. Long days - like 8 hours of riding. I'll have a Corbin seat. And be ruthless. I'm not on a strict timeframe, but 5 months will be a big test.
Pick and choose man. You can't have both.

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Ah yes, you're correct. I can't rush through it all and still absorb it all. To be fair though, there are only a few things I'm set on seeing in Australia (right now anyways) so going quickly through there isn't as big a deal. Europe has more I'm interested in seeing, but not as much as SE Asia/Stans. I don't plan on rushing through SE Asia/Stans. There are only three things that can change - Money, Time, and Distance. If there is an issue with one of those it'll affect the trip and I'll adjust accordingly. But yes, you're correct. Indeed I can't have it both ways.

I find it amusing that in the 9 months of "planning and preparation", you only got a bike last week and you still don't know how much the visas and border crossing will run you even though it is all listed on visa websites, and didn't even look up the exact Carnet cost on the Carnet website. No offense, but at this pace you're going to be planning this trip forever.

The bottom line is that the world is not that difficult to travel. There are pretty good roads everywhere and it's easy to figure out how to get to places once you're in the area. It's much easier than trying to search the Internet for random outdated anecdotal information. If you run into issues on the road, then you can post to see what alternatives you have...

The best thing to do is to just go. Your $17K may last you till Nepal and you fly home, or maybe it lasts you till Turkey and you fly home. Or maybe it lasts you till your destination and you fly home. It's going to be awesome no matter how far you get. Not sure what the point is in trying to cover the earth in one giant trip. You have your life ahead of you. You can do more than one trip, you know... Doing shorter trips - if it ends up being shorter - just gives you a better idea of how you personally like to travel and how much it will cost you and it will help you plan future trips.

Camping is great and all, but it really depends on the region. It sucks being in Paris only to be forced out to some crummy suburban highway campground and not experiencing the nightlife. It sucks going to the supermarket and not trying all the local specialties. Are you really going to pull up to Louvre museum and just admire it from outside to save $15? Because everything is going to cost you money for access. In Africa, you can't even enter most national parks on a motorcycle. And Africa can be very expensive. Want to see the wild gorillas in Uganda? Last I checked, that was about $800 for a few hours. Want to see Victoria Falls during the full moon? That will be $50. All the developing countries know that tourism is big business and all the famous attractions you heard about are usually going to cost something - oftentimes, they will cost a lot.

Which leads me to my last point; Africa may end up being cheaper than Europe and also more interesting. Europe is interesting, but it's basically US with prettier buildings, different languages, and different foods... Trying to keep a strict budget in Europe will make you feel like a bum. In contrast, Africa is probably best done if you camp and it's actually a big positive. It will really enhance your experience. Take the Eastern route and don't feel obligated to circle around every continent. There are no prizes for circling continents.

I do think your route is pretty smart. You're moving from the easiest and safest places and working your way to the hardest and sketchiest (if you do end up riding Africa.) If you're gonna do it, this is a nice route. It will build up your confidence and travelling smarts.

I agree with the above. Don't overplan - plans will change. Don't try to see everything, cos you can't, but won't make sense to skip famous attractions, because of some admission fee, either. You will create a balance into that once you're underway.

Camping: unless you really love to camp, ditch that gear for south&southeast Asia. no use to carry them when you get a rain shelter and a bed for a few dollars a night. There are very few campgrounds, and it is mostly populated area so wild-camping spots could be tougher to find.

Havent read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been covered...

You cant get your bike over Everest. Sorry. I know the area well, having spent 2 month's on the side of the mountain in 2003.

On the Tibet side: its easy to ride up to the Rongbuk Monastary, and from there up to Base Camp. There were 4WDs and motorcycles there.

From there it gets tough. You'd have to trace your way up the yak path up the Rongbuk Glacier and around Changtse, which is the main climbing route. Its theoretically possible if you're amazing to get your bike to Advanced Base Camp. You would need a permit for this.

From there there's basically no chance. There are no viable routes from ABC on the Tibet side to the Nepalese side. Less than 10(?) people have ever done such a route on foot, and those were world class mountaineers.

The other side, you need to go over the Western Shoulder.

Oh, and the other side, Nepal, isnt suitable for vehicles that close to the border.

Basically if you were hard as nails, and had been climbing for a decade, and went with a partner, and no bike, you MIGHT survive such an expedition. As that's what it would be. We're talking tens of miles of heavily creviced glaciers over a route that no one takes.

I give you credit for an audacious plan. And hell, someone will prove me wrong one day, but in the interim, if you can afford the fees:

You couldn't really 'walk' it around the peaks nearby. The closest you could get is to walk up the valley west of Gokyo, cross the Nangpa La, coming out near ChoOyu BC then walk across to Ev BC from there. Long, but quite possible. Tibetan refugees regularly do part of that.

Or if you could do some glacier travel, with maybe a little climbing, you go up the Gokyo, up the Nup La, down the West Rongbuk, back along the Central Rongbuk and to Ev BC. Shorter than the former option, but more technical. Hillary and Lowe did this illegal trip in '51 or '52, then Sayre and friends in '62. Don't know of anyone doing it since.

Expeds have climbed Khumbutse (west of the Lho La) to gain the Lho La, rather than climbing up to the Lho La from Ev BC Nepal side (v hard), so you could descend to north side Ev BC that way, but that is much harder and more technical. A Belgian climber did this illegally in the mid 80s - Nepal BC-LhoLa-Rongbuk Gl-Ev BC.

Click to expand...

Note, you really want to read what happened at this pass's border in 2006:

I find it amusing that in the 9 months of "planning and preparation", you only got a bike last week and you still don't know how much the visas and border crossing will run you even though it is all listed on visa websites, and didn't even look up the exact Carnet cost on the Carnet website. No offense, but at this pace you're going to be planning this trip forever.

The bottom line is that the world is not that difficult to travel. There are pretty good roads everywhere and it's easy to figure out how to get to places once you're in the area. It's much easier than trying to search the Internet for random outdated anecdotal information. If you run into issues on the road, then you can post to see what alternatives you have...

The best thing to do is to just go. Your $17K may last you till Nepal and you fly home, or maybe it lasts you till Turkey and you fly home. Or maybe it lasts you till your destination and you fly home. It's going to be awesome no matter how far you get. Not sure what the point is in trying to cover the earth in one giant trip. You have your life ahead of you. You can do more than one trip, you know... Doing shorter trips - if it ends up being shorter - just gives you a better idea of how you personally like to travel and how much it will cost you and it will help you plan future trips.

Camping is great and all, but it really depends on the region. It sucks being in Paris only to be forced out to some crummy suburban highway campground and not experiencing the nightlife. It sucks going to the supermarket and not trying all the local specialties. Are you really going to pull up to Louvre museum and just admire it from outside to save $15? Because everything is going to cost you money for access. In Africa, you can't even enter most national parks on a motorcycle. And Africa can be very expensive. Want to see the wild gorillas in Uganda? Last I checked, that was about $800 for a few hours. Want to see Victoria Falls during the full moon? That will be $50. All the developing countries know that tourism is big business and all the famous attractions you heard about are usually going to cost something - oftentimes, they will cost a lot.

Which leads me to my last point; Africa may end up being cheaper than Europe and also more interesting. Europe is interesting, but it's basically US with prettier buildings, different languages, and different foods... Trying to keep a strict budget in Europe will make you feel like a bum. In contrast, Africa is probably best done if you camp and it's actually a big positive. It will really enhance your experience. Take the Eastern route and don't feel obligated to circle around every continent. There are no prizes for circling continents.

I do think your route is pretty smart. You're moving from the easiest and safest places and working your way to the hardest and sketchiest (if you do end up riding Africa.) If you're gonna do it, this is a nice route. It will build up your confidence and travelling smarts.

Click to expand...

Hi Witold,

Thanks for your post. I've read a number of your RR and you take really great pics!

You're right, I am going slowly, perhaps slower than most. I should just go. I have excuses not to go, or to wait or whatever, they don't really matter. I'll just keep moving forward and onward and go when I can.

You are also correct again in saying that it'd be silly to miss a big attraction because it's beyond my daily budget. I'll go and see them generally. Which ties into what Pecha72 says - don't plan too much and find a good balance. Thank you both for your comment.

Havent read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been covered...

You cant get your bike over Everest. Sorry. I know the area well, having spent 2 month's on the side of the mountain in 2003.

On the Tibet side: its easy to ride up to the Rongbuk Monastary, and from there up to Base Camp. There were 4WDs and motorcycles there.

From there it gets tough. You'd have to trace your way up the yak path up the Rongbuk Glacier and around Changtse, which is the main climbing route. Its theoretically possible if you're amazing to get your bike to Advanced Base Camp. You would need a permit for this.

From there there's basically no chance. There are no viable routes from ABC on the Tibet side to the Nepalese side. Less than 10(?) people have ever done such a route on foot, and those were world class mountaineers.

The other side, you need to go over the Western Shoulder.

Oh, and the other side, Nepal, isnt suitable for vehicles that close to the border.

Basically if you were hard as nails, and had been climbing for a decade, and went with a partner, and no bike, you MIGHT survive such an expedition. As that's what it would be. We're talking tens of miles of heavily creviced glaciers over a route that no one takes.

I give you credit for an audacious plan. And hell, someone will prove me wrong one day, but in the interim, if you can afford the fees:

- riding to Everest Base Camp would be awesome.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your comments and research nylon2000. I thought it was pretty audacious myself to try it, but as you said it's basically impossible - and I'm no mountain climber. Riding past will be pretty epic nonetheless.

I think this route through Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and back into Thailand will work (assuming multi-entry visas work). Basically just going the opposite direction I had proposed. Not an issue. I didn't have any reason to go the way I had originally planned. This route is about 5600km, which is maybe a little longer than the other way, but not by much. This alleviates the no shipping out of Vietnam issue, but still allows me to travel through much of the area. If I read up a bunch on Vietnam, maybe I'll jump across the border for a bit without my bike. It's all possible.

Click to expand...

Your route through Cambodia misses out on Angkor Wat, which although overrun with tourists is really a must-see.

Also I've been rethinking the India to Tajikistan route, which is about 9600km. Fly into Nepal, ride around India, then go up into Jammu and Kashmir on the eastern side of the area then come down the western side, going through Jammu, Srinagar, Kargil and Leh all the way to New Delhi were I can catch a flight to Dushanbe, Tajikistan.

Click to expand...

The road from Leh to Manali is only open for 2-3 months a year from late-Junish to early-Septemberish, depending on snowfall. This does not fit in with your stated schedule.

Also, there are reputable places in India where you could store your bike (not sure how this would work in regards to carnet/temp. import docs, etc.) so you could take five months to do Australia to India, go home for however long you need, then come back and complete the rest of the trip. Maybe somewhere besides India is also possible for storage, I just have first-hand knowledge of options there.

Thanks for your post. I've read a number of your RR and you take really great pics!

You're right, I am going slowly, perhaps slower than most. I should just go. I have excuses not to go, or to wait or whatever, they don't really matter. I'll just keep moving forward and onward and go when I can.

You are also correct again in saying that it'd be silly to miss a big attraction because it's beyond my daily budget. I'll go and see them generally. Which ties into what Pecha72 says - don't plan too much and find a good balance. Thank you both for your comment.

Click to expand...

No worries. I know the feeling. But you will regret spending all this time planning and preparing instead of riding. Time is valuable, too. You will find that all this planning wasn't that useful when you're actually doing the trip. Trying to figure out details from 3,000 miles away is much, much harder than trying to figure out your options when you're on the ground. Most things end up being very easy to do when you're there, plus you can learn of options you didn't even know existed. Some things may cause you a few days of delay, but that's usually as bad as it gets.

Also, in regards to Manali-Leh, it depends on snowfall. Sometimes, it opens early April and closes late October. It depends on how much snow they need to clear after winter, and when the first big snow storm covers the road for good in October. A bigger consideration would be monsoon season. Once it hits, it will rain often and a lot when you cross South of Rhotang Pass.

Road from Manali to Leh is only open from Jun to September so you should do a good timing . I don't know about the cam base but near Leh ( ~40 km ) is Khadrung La pass which is the highest motorable road in the world ( 5602m - they said ) . I've been there before and it's very high already ( enough to have altitude sickness ) You also need to go to Yamauru from leh , i think it is one of the best road to ride .
Crossing border between Cambodia- Vietnam , Vietnam - China is sometime impossible . And as what i know now Tibet is " Taboo " .