clocksnmirrors wrote:from another point of view, no one died. if he'd had a gun it would have been a different story

or, if an intended victim had a gun, different too.........

haha MDF "sane rural white guys"............well I fit one part anyway.Problem is, the same laws that keep us from (law abiding) from taking care of (them), protect them. And disarming us, does not help.

the ancient Teutonic tribes, had a tenet, as applied to law as such: "he had it coming/needed killin"........I paraphrase, but, essentially, at times someone needed killin, and if you could make your point, it was ok. if not, the bog, the limb, or the wicker man, for you.

IMHO, the defense will actually have a good argument to present to the jury that if he really wanted to kill, he would not have used a shallow - bladed exacto knife. Makes it harder to charge and convict on murder 1 which requires the intent to kill, not just cut.

We have seen this exact thing happen in trial. Where we live, the gangs really don't use guns often - their intent in a fight is to mess someone up, not kill.

Mojojita wrote:IMHO, the defense will actually have a good argument to present to the jury that if he really wanted to kill, he would not have used a shallow - bladed exacto knife. Makes it harder to charge and convict on murder 1 which requires the intent to kill, not just cut.

We have seen this exact thing happen in trial. Where we live, the gangs really don't use guns often - their intent in a fight is to mess someone up, not kill.

I'd struggle with that. Though I understand what you point out. still, is it unreasonable to hang him anyway, just because he only wanted to make lots of people bleed real bad, but not necessarily (though I'm sure if they died it was ok) kill them? And, some people may well think cutting would kill, not knowing much about such things

Mojojita wrote:IMHO, the defense will actually have a good argument to present to the jury that if he really wanted to kill, he would not have used a shallow - bladed exacto knife. Makes it harder to charge and convict on murder 1 which requires the intent to kill, not just cut.

We have seen this exact thing happen in trial. Where we live, the gangs really don't use guns often - their intent in a fight is to mess someone up, not kill.

I'd struggle with that. Though I understand what you point out. still, is it unreasonable to hang him anyway, just because he only wanted to make lots of people bleed real bad, but not necessarily (though I'm sure if they died it was ok) kill them? And, some people may well think cutting would kill, not knowing much about such things

Oh yes! This kid is a serious wacko that needs to be held and treated for his madness - likely for a long, long time.

They has to life flight people.. His defense will fall on there ass with he didn't aim to kill. He damn well knew what he was doing. His first statement to the cop was about a fantisy . He was building his own defense as a nut job..

I have been stuck with a knife. Right in the palm of the hand.. Hurt like hell.. The guy tried to run.. I hit him like a paragon on a pigeon..

unjonharley wrote:They has to life flight people.. His defense will fall on there ass with he didn't aim to kill. He damn well knew what he was doing. His first statement to the cop was about a fantisy . He was building his own defense as a nut job..

I have been stuck with a knife. Right in the palm of the hand.. Hurt like hell.. The guy tried to run.. I hit him like a paragon on a pigeon..

If you're out of arm's reach from an angry person with a knife, you have at least a shot of cooling them off before they take rash action. But with a gun, a heated temper and the twitch of a finger and it's all over. I keep a machete for home defense ... I'll never need to use it, but if one of my nutty friends ends up sneaking into my house, I'll have a split second to realize it's jem and not kill.

When was the last time you saw a convicted murderer straining against a straight jacket in court? (Except for 1 or 2, ever) they all calm down: it's the moment, not the person. Every moment you have is one step toward a peaceful resolution. Killing people is always wrong.

In the 30's a guy blow up his house with wife in it.. Went to the local grade school and blow that up with it full of kids.. Then came back around and called the princeable to his truck and blew the both of them up.. Everyone said it would not be forgotten..

I called the TV news and gave them shit for not doing background on there news..

Josephus described its use at Jotapata in AD 67, saying "the oil did easily run down the whole body from head to foot, under their entire armour, and fed upon their flesh like flame itself."

The sand penetrated through the armour into the shirts, burned the body, and it could not be helped. They died, going mad with horrible pain, in sufferings piteous and unquenchable.—Diodorus Siculus, on the 4th century BC Siege of Tyre

The issue for me is not that people attack each other in ones or twos or even whole battalions, in war, with whatever weapon. That's something entirely different.

The problem we have is these crazy rural white guys who attack large groups of children in public places. The weapon is not the issue. The issue is that nobody in the community paid any attention to these dangerously crazy fuckers until the children were dead, and then it was too late.

Talking about the weapons is such a waste of time. Tell me instead what the FUCK is wrong with the people in these little towns that are raising up such evil crazy madmen.

And then: FIX IT. Don't wait for the federal government to solve this problem for you. These are your people, your children, your responsibility.

"Burning Man ruined my life as I knew it, and I have never been happier." -mgb327

If it were easy, or even possible, to identify (let along "fix") crazy people who are likely to go on a killing rampage -- without intruding too much into the lives of ordinary citizens -- we'd already be doing it. Some problems don't even manifest themselves unless triggered by an event (crimes of passion, etc.).

I think what's more important is how we react to these incidents. These incidents are exceptional cases, and we risk doing society more harm by overreacting to these abnormal cases with measures that negatively impact everyone else. We don't want the cure to be worse than the poison.

"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

i worry about sudden mass killings, but I worry about them in perspective to reality.That is, I worry about them in the same way that I worry about a tsunamai or nuclear attack.Or a lightning strike indoors.

MyDearFriend wrote:The issue for me is not that people attack each other in ones or twos or even whole battalions, in war, with whatever weapon. That's something entirely different.

The problem we have is these crazy rural white guys who attack large groups of children in public places. The weapon is not the issue. The issue is that nobody in the community paid any attention to these dangerously crazy fuckers until the children were dead, and then it was too late.

Talking about the weapons is such a waste of time. Tell me instead what the FUCK is wrong with the people in these little towns that are raising up such evil crazy madmen.

And then: FIX IT. Don't wait for the federal government to solve this problem for you. These are your people, your children, your responsibility.

Sometimes it just feels better to plonk than reply.

In your wildest dreams you can not imagine the marvelous SURPRISES that await YOU.

It all comes down to a mental health issue. Exacto knives, hammers, baseball bats, bows and arrows, handguns, AK47s are all 'safe' in the hands of a balanced individual that is educated in its proper use. Background checks would NOT have prevented the recent tragedies as the individuals did not have criminal backgrounds. The background checks cannot include mental health treatment as a consideration for weapon purchase approval due to 1996 HIPAA (privacy act). It all comes down to the responsibility of the community that surrounded these individuals and the ease in which they could have reported them and gotten them the help they needed. Due to the policies that were put in place by Reagan, Kennedy, Carter regarding mental health, the 'ease to report' such people is non existent. Until they can be deamed a risk to themselves or society a family/the community has little to no leverage in getting a mentally unbalanced person the help that they need. MAJOR reform on our mental health system is the key to avoiding such tragedies in the future.

"I hitched a ride with a vending machine repair manHe says he's been down this road more than twiceHe was high on intellectualismI've never been there but the brochure looks nice"

Police are forming a special unit of 35 officers.. They unit will learn how to deal with crazy nut job.. When confronting a subject that has a weapon. The officer will have to determine if it's nut job.. " hey you, before I shoot you dead. I need to know if real wack job or not.. If you are I will have to let you kill me".. Yaa I know this belongs in the WTF thread.

What about those cars? You know how many deaths they cause every year?Oughta regulate them, make everyone pass safety tests before they can drive.Oh, sorry, that would rob you of your freedom, forget it.