The fifth precept forbids "strong drinks (& Intoxicants?) that lead to heedlessness". So it isn't that simple, because in this particular case (and so I've read, for quite a few other folks also), the plant ayahuasca did not lead to heedlessness, but rather to a sense of clarity and conviction.

I'm not advocating anyone take it, just saying that the fifth precept does not appear to decisively advise against this particular plant.

Having said that, the Buddha does say that the only way to Nibbana is the practice of the Noble Eightfold Path, so any insights attained while taking ayahuasca ought not to be taken as suggesting one is now enlightened, from the Buddhist point of view in any case.

The 5th precept doesn't decisively advise against ANY particular plant.

The 5th precept advises .....'to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness'.

Given that some people have experienced the delusion and mistaken impression that they have become enlightened, I would think this precept covers it pretty well. The only exceptions, as far as I can ascertain, are taking drugs for medical reasons; drugs which have been administered and prescribed, or drugs which bring relief from pain and discomfort. Other than that, the precept is not specific as to the substance; but it is specific with regard to the EFFECT.

(Oooh, sneaky!! You edited your post.... )

Last edited by TheNoBSBuddhist on Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap." ‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

Crazy cloud wrote:and where seeing some strange sights, that I still don't understand

Hello Crazy Cloud,

What kind of sights? If it's possible to explain

Hi, actually I guess it's a bit to weird, and possibly something one would ask a monastic ..

But in short:

hightened vision (been able to read without "binoculars", perfect eyesight - use glasses since i was 6 years of age)

automatic pinpointed vision (every morning after waking up - the first object i lay my eyes on, and the mind itself performed a instant and perfect adjustment in clearness, details, colors and so on - emtying the mind, stillness ..)

hightened memory (ability to memorize tree times normal amount)

"read minds" ..

cessation of self - (I could se my old self diappear, day by day - and I couldn't belive what was happening, so I tried several times to lure the demon out in the open, but it was gone, and the dream is over)

seeing 2bodies in every person in a random group of people

Just like to add, that this process lasted about 6 months, and was before I started reading and practicing the dhamma - I was in a state of emty awareness, that's it I think ..

Crazy cloud wrote:Hi, actually I guess it's a bit to weird, and possibly something one would ask a monastic ..

But in short:

hightened vision (been able to read without binoculars, perfect eyesight - use glasses since i was 6 years of age)

automatic pinpointed vision (every morning after waking up - the first object i lay my eyes on, and the mind itself performed a instant and perfect adjustment in clearness, details, colors and so on - emtying the mind, stillness ..)

hightened memory (ability to memorize tree times normal amount)

"read minds" ..

cessation of self - (I could se my old self diappear, day by day - and I couldn't belive what was happening, so I tried several times to lure the demon out in the open, but it was gone, and the dream is over)

seeing 2bodies in every person in a random group of people

Just like to add, that this process lasted about 6 months, and was before I started reading and practicing the dhamma - I was in a state of emty awareness, that's it I think ..

manas wrote:The fifth precept forbids "strong drinks (& Intoxicants?) that lead to heedlessness". So it isn't that simple, because in this particular case (and so I've read, for quite a few other folks also), the plant ayahuasca did not lead to heedlessness, but rather to a sense of clarity and conviction.

It leads to you tripping balls and hallucinating things that aren't there. If you want to know about the crazy and harmful actions that this "clarity" leads to, just check out the Erowid experience vault; I recommend the Datura section if you want a horrifying glimpse at temporary insanity.

manas wrote:I'm not advocating anyone take it, just saying that the fifth precept does not appear to decisively advise against this particular plant.

Did you expect him to give a list of every psychoactive plant and substance? The spirit of the precept is clear, the lettering of rules always leaves room for interpretation.

A young british student recently went to south america and tried ayahuasca and died!! That should be warning enough.....

18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John

manas wrote:The fifth precept forbids "strong drinks (& Intoxicants?) that lead to heedlessness". So it isn't that simple, because in this particular case (and so I've read, for quite a few other folks also), the plant ayahuasca did not lead to heedlessness, but rather to a sense of clarity and conviction.

It led to a person thinking they probably attained nibbana. To think one has attained nibbana just from drinking a psychedelic drink, to be fooled into such a wrong view, I think that qualifies as "heedless".

The methodologies for transcendence are varied: meditation,prayer, devotion, yoga, fasting, even psychotropic drugs. In thelong run, the ones that are the most useful will be the ones thatcan be integrated into daily life with the minimum amount ofdependence on external circumstances or internal ideology. Thenthe method will be applicable to a wide range of people and it willnot become the source of more stressful mental activity. Such isthe spiritual alignment that the Buddha called ‘Dhamma'

Sam Vara wrote:On this topic, I like the stance taken by Ajahn Sucitto:

The methodologies for transcendence are varied: meditation,prayer, devotion, yoga, fasting, even psychotropic drugs. In thelong run, the ones that are the most useful will be the ones thatcan be integrated into daily life with the minimum amount ofdependence on external circumstances or internal ideology. Thenthe method will be applicable to a wide range of people and it willnot become the source of more stressful mental activity. Such isthe spiritual alignment that the Buddha called ‘Dhamma'