<!--QuoteBegin-Leper Messiah+Mar 4 2005, 04:01 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leper Messiah @ Mar 4 2005, 04:01 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->well have no fear Mark, you watch this film and you will see battles between the Martians and Humans rather than just hearing about them. Im confused why youre suggesting otherwise.<br />[right][snapback]1763[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Because you can't do believable battles between humans and martians with bad CG effects in a 'modest' film. There's simply no way you can make a movie of WoTW that will be acceptable to a wide audience on a budget that would fund a decent play.<br />

<!--QuoteBegin-MarkG+Mar 4 2005, 04:16 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkG @ Mar 4 2005, 04:16 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Because you can't do believable battles between humans and martians with bad CG effects in a 'modest' film. There's simply no way you can make a movie of WoTW that will be acceptable to a wide audience on a budget that would fund a decent play.<br />[right][snapback]1764[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />right so now youre saying youd prefer the battles were not seen but only mentioned?<br /><br />and Loz, thou shalt not press the reply button twice

<!--QuoteBegin-MarkG+Mar 4 2005, 10:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkG @ Mar 4 2005, 10:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Because you can't do believable battles between humans and martians with bad CG effects in a 'modest' film. There's simply no way you can make a movie of WoTW that will be acceptable to a wide audience on a budget that would fund a decent play.<br />[right][snapback]1764[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I never said or even implied you could make a film with the funding for a play, simply that huge budgets are not necessary for good films.<br /><br />Unfortunately, tailoring films for â€˜wide audiencesâ€™ almost always requires filmmakers maintain lowest common denominatorsâ€¦which usually translates into lots of SFX ornamenting (and often meant to distract us from) weak/predictable/sappy storylines. <br /><br />Wells has always suffered at the hands of Hollywood when it aims for that 'wide audience,' and thatâ€™s a sad fact.<br />

"One attains the gifts of reason, empowered with the bitter truth. Through suffering perseverance to the end, One's strength emerges frozen in steel. I am He, Conqueror of Fear." - ORDER FROM CHAOS

however thats not to say a low budget stage adaptation of WOTW doesnt have ideas that could be adapted for a film, for example, one such plays take on the Martian appearence:<br /><br /><br /><br />sorry i thought we needed a lighter moment

<!--QuoteBegin-Leper Messiah+Mar 4 2005, 08:49 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leper Messiah @ Mar 4 2005, 08:49 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->right so now youre saying youd prefer the battles were not seen but only mentioned?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I'm saying no such thing, and I don't know why you keep trying to put words into my mouth.<br /><br />Someone else was claiming that you could make a movie of WoTW on a 'modest' budget because you could make a play of WoTW on a 'modest' budget. I was pointing out why that is impossible to do: you _can't_ have the battles offscreen in a movie, and you can't do battles that are acceptable to a mass audience on a 'modest' budget.<br /><br />And if your movie can't appeal to a mass audience then you're doomed in the first place... few people are going to give you $12,000,000 to shoot an art movie that will make a tiny fraction of their investment at the box office.<br />

<!--QuoteBegin-MarkG+Mar 5 2005, 02:46 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkG @ Mar 5 2005, 02:46 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm saying no such thing, and I don't know why you keep trying to put words into my mouth.<br /><br />Someone else was claiming that you could make a movie of WoTW on a 'modest' budget because you could make a play of WoTW on a 'modest' budget. I was pointing out why that is impossible to do: you _can't_ have the battles offscreen in a movie, and you can't do battles that are acceptable to a mass audience on a 'modest' budget.<br /><br />And if your movie can't appeal to a mass audience then you're doomed in the first place... few people are going to give you $12,000,000 to shoot an art movie that will make a tiny fraction of their investment at the box office.<br />[right][snapback]1806[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />right then lets review Pendragon and Hines' aim: To make a good adaptation of The War Of The Worlds, for Hines this is something he always wanted to do, for Pendragon as a small (in the scheme of things) company are probably hoping for no more than this film to be noticed, as it may well do once its released. i doubt they expect to see that $12,000,000 again.

<!--QuoteBegin-Leper Messiah+Mar 5 2005, 02:55 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leper Messiah @ Mar 5 2005, 02:55 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->right then lets review Pendragon and Hines' aim: To make a good adaptation of The War Of The Worlds, for Hines this is something he always wanted to do, for Pendragon as a small (in the scheme of things) company are probably hoping for no more than this film to be noticed, as it may well do once its released. i doubt they expect to see that $12,000,000 again.<br />[right][snapback]1808[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br />If thats what he's wanted to do, why did his first concept for the film(prior to 9/11) set the scene in the USA in the present day.<br />And I've always heard that the idea of making a film was to make enough money for your next film. you can't go to your backers and say "will you give me some money for this great idea I've had, and by the way you won't see your money again" they'd kick you out the window.

Lets not forget that Pendragon were basically going to do what Parramount are doing now and but probably not as well. Then they lose there bottle because of 9/11 and decide to go back to the past because there are no skysrapers in 1899, just a a very big clock, which they decide to blow up instead. <br />So although this means some of us like myself are getting the adaption we want, it s not for the right reasons.<br />Ever since reading the book back in the seventies I've wanted to see it realized as close the book that a film will alow, with a nice smattering of artistic licence, I mean I'm obsessed with war of the Worlds, that's why I'm here now writing this instead of cuddling my wife. I think to do it well you have to have a marriage of great script, actors, director, and special effects.<br />If Wells were alive now, he'd want to see his book realized into film at the highest possible standard. He'd want to see his imagination come to life on screan, and that takes money, because good effects cost money. Good effects can't help a bad script, but I'm talking about both. And a good script with poor effects in this case won't do it for me.

We seem to be falling into the trap of saying that Big Budget Major Studio Hollywood Movie = bad film, while Small Low Budget Independent Production = good film, and of course neither statement is true. That said, I do think that the majority of mainstream Hollywood product in the last few years - especially the 'summer blockbusters' - has been increasingly lame. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-MarkG+Mar 4 2005, 05:16 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkG @ Mar 4 2005, 05:16 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Because you can't do believable battles between humans and martians with bad CG effects in a 'modest' film. There's simply no way you can make a movie of WoTW that will be acceptable to a wide audience on a budget that would fund a decent play.[/quote]<br /><br />Mark G, I agree that the average mainstream audience - the Joe Sixpack brigade - does have certain expectations regarding special effects and visual spectacle. However, saying that a film cannot be 'commercial' without such effects - often to the detriment of decent plot, script, charactization, etc - is somewhat misguided. It partly depends on what your definition of 'commercial' is. Plenty of direct-to-video movies make a healthy profit, featuring CGI that would be considered sub-standard in a major studio film.<br /><br />So it depends on what kind of War of the Worlds you want to see: a small scale version with acceptable low budget effects that stays true to Wells' vision, or a major studio production that gives you all the bangs for your buck you could wish for, but which jettisons anything that requires the audience to think?<br /><br />Or, as Charles put it;<br /><br />

Quote:

Huge budgets are not necessary for good films. Unfortunately, tailoring films for ‘wide audiences’ almost always requires filmmakers maintain lowest common denominators…which usually translates into lots of SFX ornamenting (and often meant to distract us from) weak/predictable/sappy storylines. Wells has always suffered at the hands of Hollywood when it aims for that 'wide audience,' and that’s a sad fact.

<br /><br />I fully agreed, and not just Wells.<br /><br />

Quote:

Right then, lets review Pendragon and Hines' aim: To make a good adaptation of The War Of The Worlds, for Hines this is something he always wanted to do, for Pendragon as a small (in the scheme of things) company are probably hoping for no more than this film to be noticed, as it may well do once its released. i doubt they expect to see that $12,000,000 again.

<br /><br />'Fraid I'm going to have to disagree with you this time, Leper. No matter how low budget or art house your film is, the movie business is still a business, and your investors are going to want to see a profit. Even those who put money into dodgy productions that are designed to be nothing more than tax write-offs, still expect - at the very least - to make that money back.<br /><br />The thing to remember is that it's not too difficult for a low budget movie to make a profit. For example, Joel Silver has announced that Dungeons & Dragons 2: The Elemential Might has already a profit - despite the fact that it's still in production - due to the money paid up-front by distributors worldwide.<br /><br />

Quote:

If Wells were alive now, he'd want to see his book realized into film at the highest possible standard. He'd want to see his imagination come to life on screan, and that takes money, because good effects cost money. Good effects can't help a bad script, but I'm talking about both. And a good script with poor effects in this case won't do it for me.

<br /><br />Neither of us can claim to talk for Wells, Loz. But personally, I'm a lot more forgiving of cheap effects - if it's the best the producers could afford - than I am of lousy scriptwriting.<br /> <br />

<!--QuoteBegin-Fenris+Mar 6 2005, 02:43 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fenris @ Mar 6 2005, 02:43 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Neither of us can claim to talk for Wells, Loz. But personally, I'm a lot more forgiving of cheap effects - if it's the best the producers could afford - than I am of lousy scriptwriting.<br />[right][snapback]1841[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I didn't tell you I'm a Medium? With my crystal egg I can see into the spirit world.

<!--QuoteBegin-Loz+Mar 5 2005, 10:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loz @ Mar 5 2005, 10:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lets not forget that Pendragon were basically going to do what Parramount are doing now and but probably not as well. Then they lose there bottle because of 9/11 and decide to go back to the past because there are no skysrapers in 1899, just a a very big clock, which they decide to blow up instead. <br />So although this means some of us like myself are getting the adaption we want, it s not for the right reasons.<br />Ever since reading the book back in the seventies I've wanted to see it realized as close the book that a film will alow, with a nice smattering of artistic licence, I mean I'm obsessed with war of the Worlds, that's why I'm here now writing this instead of cuddling my wife. I think to do it well you have to have a marriage of great script, actors, director, and special effects.<br />If Wells were alive now, he'd want to see his book realized into film at the highest possible standard. He'd want to see his imagination come to life on screan, and that takes money, because good effects cost money. Good effects can't help a bad script, but I'm talking about both. And a good script with poor effects in this case won't do it for me.<br />[right][snapback]1821[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br /><br />Well i'm gonna set the 'cat among the pigeons'..........Theres a saying,you cannot serve two masters.Its simple...Pendragon are doing the book as best then can,money,effects etc etc.I'm a huge fan of Well's written words so my loyalty is to the people that are going to follow those words.Paramount are doing their 'thing'.What i do know is that Paramounts film aint and never will be the 'words' of Wells and their film to me personally is as close to Wells book as 'mary poppins' is to caligula.If it aint the book, then how can it possibly be The War of the Worlds. <_<<br /><br />None of us can obviously speak for Wells...................all i can say is if i wrote a book and some film maker came along and butchered it then personally i would feel obliged to spit on them!!! -_-

If you had the choice, which would you choose -<br /><br />A. Film versioin sticking close to the book with location and time etc with cheap effects?<br /><br />B. . Film versioin sticking close to the book with location and time etc with expensive effects?<br /><br />C. Modern adaption with cheap effects?<br /><br />D. Modern adaption with expensive effects.<br /><br />I'd want B.

obviously in an ideal world id want B, but what i really want to know is how did you misspell version so horrendously in exactly the same way twice <br /><br />but i think possibly youre missing out a possible <br /><br />E. Modern adaptation sticking close to the source material and message for indeed, such a film is possible. <br /><br />oh and an F as well depending on if you want cheap effects or not

<!--QuoteBegin-Loz+Mar 7 2005, 10:50 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loz @ Mar 7 2005, 10:50 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you had the choice, which would you choose -<br /><br />A. Film versioin sticking close to the book with location and time etc with cheap effects?<br /><br />B. . Film versioin sticking close to the book with location and time etc with expensive effects?<br /><br />C. Modern adaption with cheap effects?<br /><br />D. Modern adaption with expensive effects.<br />[right][snapback]1864[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Me? I'd want B too, but wouldn't mind D as a second. The fear is that there'll be an E and an F that could come too.<br /><br />E. A film version which tried to follow the book, but lost the spirit of the book (effects aside)<br /> (disjointed scene segments, distracting visuals (already discussed), etc.)<br /><br />F. A modern adapation that strays too far, and thereby loses the spirit of the book in favor of modern movie-making formulae.<br /> (excessive explosions, gratuitous sex and gore, new-age pabllum)<br /><br />Bottom line? I want the spirit of the book intact.

Its got to be 'B'.I personally find it hard to accept any expansion to the story,its dangerous ground in my opinion.Something so 'perfect' should be left well alone.It starts....''No-one would have believed'' and ends ''and my wife counted me among the dead''(or words to that effect).If film makers cannot have the integraty to honour the text to the last word as regarding the greatest piece of horror/Sci-Fi ever written then its a sad day for Wells written text.Its a shame that the 'copywrite' to this story doesn't belong me(yes i know......yet another ''up my own arse'' comment from the curate )because i wouldn't let no-one near it unless they were gonna ''do the bizz''.(out of love :wub: )with a side dish of obsession

Or a w for wayne as in jeff wayne's cgi version featuring that amazing music, good effects and it's not too far from the original story either...thats the one i'm waiting for, but then i think i may have said that before.

Is anyone else ''dying '' from a cold at the moment like me????Women always say that us men folk are big babies when we contract a cold so having said that if there were male and female Martians,they should of sent the females to invade the home counties and then they may have stood a better chance and not have 'thrown the towel in' after 4 weeks in and around London!!Well anyway,thats the other halfs point of view. <_<

<!--QuoteBegin-Leper Messiah+Mar 7 2005, 12:16 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leper Messiah @ Mar 7 2005, 12:16 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->obviously in an ideal world id want B, but what i really want to know is how did you misspell version so horrendously in exactly the same way twice <br /><br />but i think possibly youre missing out a possible <br /><br />E. Modern adaptation sticking close to the source material and message for indeed, such a film is possible. <br /><br />oh and an F as well depending on if you want cheap effects or not <br />[right][snapback]1867[/snapback][/right]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />E would be cool by me.<br />

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