1) Your collection based on your digging came up with a 1:10 ratio. That doesn't actually establish anything.

No, actually I posted the quote of the 14% earlier from the article listing Marvels production numbers for 1999. That's a 1.4 out of every 10.

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2) Even if it is 1:10, that doesn't automatically make them more valuable. There still has to be a demand.

I agree and as long as we keep them hidden/lumped in with others so they're harder to identify, price compare and shop for by new members while continuing to belittle them for wanting them in the first place we'll never know what that market might have grown into.

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3) eBay has a very small handful of newsstands for sale (about 15), even less actually sold (about 5) and most from one seller.

I found 374 on a simple search the other day.390 results today.Search newsstand edition, then select comic book. Bamf!!! Photobucket Pages

Market Summary for AMAZING SPIDERMAN #583-D:Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-D has sold as high as $3.50 in Near Mint - condition and as low as $0.50 in Very Fine condition. These values are based on the 5 copies that have been sold on ComicCollectorLive.com.Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-D has a high price listing of $0.95 in Very Fine/Near Mint condition and low price listing of $0.75 in Very Fine condition. These values are based on the 2 copies that are listed for sale on ComicCollectorLive.com.Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-D is in 25 wish lists.ComicCollectorLive.com calculates its market statistics, pricing, and valuation for Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-D by compiling the sales and listings of each book. These valuations are extrapolated based on the actual sales and listings of all Comic Book shops combined. We hope that these statistics will help collectors with the appraisal of their collections.

Market Summary for AMAZING SPIDERMAN #583-E:Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-E has sold as high as $2.99 in Near Mint condition and as low as $0.80 in Very Fine condition. These values are based on the 34 copies that have been sold on ComicCollectorLive.com.Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-E has a high price listing of $7.99 in Near Mint condition and low price listing of $0.40 in Very Good/Fine condition. These values are based on the 14 copies that are listed for sale on ComicCollectorLive.com.Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-E is in 29 wish lists.ComicCollectorLive.com calculates its market statistics, pricing, and valuation for Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-E by compiling the sales and listings of each book. These valuations are extrapolated based on the actual sales and listings of all Comic Book shops combined. We hope that these statistics will help collectors with the appraisal of their collections.

FACTS & POINTS of NOTE!D has sold 5 copies on CCL since being listed. 2 copies are currently for sale, with 25 wishlists pending

E has sold 14 copies on CCL since listed. 14 copies are listed for sale currently, with 29 WISHLISTS pending.Join the store on FACEBOOK!

* All items must be returned prior to refund at your expense. Return shipping not refunded.

Wow. And that's why this conversation will never go anywhere. You (and this is more a royal "you" for the three main folks here) decided that things play out completely differently than they do and have zero problem spouting off completely inaccurate statements like this one....

"Royal you"? This is the second time I can remember seeing this usage of "royal." The first time was in a Matt Fraction comic, and I just about flipped at the misusage.

"Royal you," if the term ever had meaning in the English language, has completely lost significance by this point. Our language used to have singular second-person pronouns (thee and thou) and plural second-person pronouns (ye and you). In time, ye and you came to be used in formal conversation, while thee and thou came to be used in familiar conversation; one could give offense by addressing someone as "thee" or "thou" before a familiar relationship had been established. This appears to have been related to the tendency of royal persons to refer to themselves, in the singular, as "we." In a conversation with a king in which the king referred to himself in the plural, it was a show of respect to respond to the king in plural (you) rather than singular (thou). In time, this show of respect was accorded to all persons, and "thee" and "thou" virtually disappeared from the common language.

The term "royal we" continues to have meaning, and refers to an individual referring to his or her singular self in the plural. Using "royal you" to signify a plural "you" seems to miss a point.

Personally (individually), I have tried to avoid, in this thread, saying how a newsstand feature could be implemented. I haven't backed away from supporting separate newsstand listings, and I haven't been shy about voicing that support, but I realize that I don't know enough about CCL data structures or logic to say how to do it, nor that it could be done with ease. In spite of this, I appear to grouped with "three main folks" accused of "spouting off completely inaccurate statements."

But what the hell? This is CCL. I'm used to having my views and comments misrepresented.

Market STATS for AMAZING SPIDERMAN 583-CAmazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-C has sold as high as $13.00 in Near Mint condition and as low as $0.50 in Near Mint condition. These values are based on the 49 copies that have been sold on ComicCollectorLive.com.Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-C has a high price listing of $4.99 in Near Mint condition and low price listing of $2.50 in Near Mint - condition. These values are based on the 4 copies that are listed for sale on ComicCollectorLive.com.Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-C is in 34 wish lists.ComicCollectorLive.com calculates its market statistics, pricing, and valuation for Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-C by compiling the sales and listings of each book. These valuations are extrapolated based on the actual sales and listings of all Comic Book shops combined. We hope that these statistics will help collectors with the appraisal of their collections.

Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-D has sold as high as $3.50 in Near Mint - condition and as low as $0.50 in Very Fine condition. These values are based on the 5 copies that have been sold on ComicCollectorLive.com.Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-D has a high price listing of $0.95 in Very Fine/Near Mint condition and low price listing of $0.75 in Very Fine condition. These values are based on the 2 copies that are listed for sale on ComicCollectorLive.com.Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-D is in 25 wish lists.ComicCollectorLive.com calculates its market statistics, pricing, and valuation for Amazing Spider-Man (1963) 583-D by compiling the sales and listings of each book. These valuations are extrapolated based on the actual sales and listings of all Comic Book shops combined. We hope that these statistics will help collectors with the appraisal of their collections.

FACTS & POINTS of NOTE!D has sold 5 copies on CCL since being listed. 2 copies are currently for sale, with 25 wishlists pending

C has sold 49 copies on CCL since listed. 4 copies are listed for sale currently, with 34 WISHLISTS pending.

If they were grouped together, the wishlists would not change in quantity, and sales of the NEWSTAND would not be trackable.

Personal: Is there a growing market for newsstand editions? Yes, I believe so. But I believe it's a forced market by sellers like myself.

People are looking for ways (on sites such as 'FREEBAY') for their book to stand out next to the 3 zillion other listings and copies for sale out there...and thus the "newsstand edition variant" is born. Say what you will about the print run being less...say what you will about the "harder to find in NM condition"...to me, these are just sales and buzz terms. The fact is that for DECADES, comics have been available in both direct and newsstand edition format, and pretty much the only difference is the BARCODE...which is only a means by which the book sells. It's not a physical change made by the publlisher. It's only a way for books to be scanned at stores..and that's about it. Now, obviously some newsstand/directs don't fall into that category because there are some obvious differences in the layout of the page and what not. (The Batman issues of "Death in the Family" from back in the day come to mind). But beyond that, I don't really see a real benefit to have them in the database unless ALOT of people want them in. But if you want to scan some of them in and submit them, I'd say be my guest.

Which brings to me my official CCL stance. Currently, CCL only allows newsstand/directs if there is a significant and justifiable difference in value to the book. This doesn't mean if your newsstand edition of SPAWN #1 sells on FREEBAY for $60 that it suddenly makes the newsstand edition of SPAWN #1 valued at $60. CCL still considers guides such as the OVERSTREET to be a trusted source for variations of this type and they do call out some differences in their price guide...but not every book. You're talking about basically cataloguing ALL newsstands and directs...and while CCL is open to what the membership WANTS, it would also have to be ran by "Those Who Sit Above In Shadow" and I don't know how receptive that's going to go over.

In closing, let me say this: There is something to be said about the number of people who are "upselling" newsstand variants. Noone is discounting that at all. But it's not entirely clear if that's the direction of the market or the direction of the sellers right now. But when it becomes the direction of BUYERS...that is when a more serious consideration of this will take place.

Feel free to message me personally if you'd like to discuss this further. I don't have any problem with opinions from our members and crew :)

I make mistakes all the time myself like when I accidently uploaded 9 copys of Uncanny X-men 423B (Newsstand Edition) April 29th and sold all 9 copys in 30 minutes just to catch my mistake as I was packing and had the entire order canceled out since I didn't have the newssies.

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You're talking about basically cataloguing ALL newsstands and directs...and while CCL is open to what the membership WANTS, it would also have to be ran by "Those Who Sit Above In Shadow" and I don't know how receptive that's going to go over.

Actually many of us have only been asking for one's we can establish are actually likely to be worth more than their counterparts due to verifiable sources like Marvels production numbers or excessive values applied elsewhere. If the pendelum swings and CCL wants them all and requests it I'm more than willing to provide much of the labor to track them down and submit them but as we mentioned many times it doesn't seem to be a strong desire to have all of them, just a few.Bamf!!! Photobucket Pages

I make mistakes all the time myself like when I accidently uploaded 9 copys of Uncanny X-men 423B (Newsstand Edition) April 29th and sold all 9 copys in 30 minutes just to catch my mistake as I was packing and had the entire order canceled out since I didn't have the newssies.

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You're talking about basically cataloguing ALL newsstands and directs...and while CCL is open to what the membership WANTS, it would also have to be ran by "Those Who Sit Above In Shadow" and I don't know how receptive that's going to go over.

Actually many of us have only been asking for one's we can establish are actually likely to be worth more than their counterparts due to verifiable sources like Marvels production numbers or excessive values applied elsewhere. If the pendelum swings and CCL wants them all and requests it I'm more than willing to provide much of the labor to track them down and submit them but as we mentioned many times it doesn't seem to be a strong desire to have alll of them, just a few.

Or, add them as we find them, just like we do all other variants.

The data about a variant only will come if it is singled out and begun to be tracked, like in my example above. If we are to stay on TOPIC

[b]"Where do all the NEWSTAND EDITIONS GO?"[b]

In my example above, with AMAZING SPIDEY #583, based on the separation, the DATA, 5 copies sold when it was separated. That's 5 copies or sales that would have been under the DIRECT listing, OR NOT, and the WISHLISTS would be probably the SAME, but the data shows, 29 people ALSO WANT the NEWSTAND COPY!Join the store on FACEBOOK!

* All items must be returned prior to refund at your expense. Return shipping not refunded.

I'd like to add another example I just discovered and think it stays on topic.

Cyberforce (1992) 4-AJul 1993Silver Chromium Cover60 for sale on CCLThis was the understood DIRECT EDITION.Market SummaryCyberforce (1992) 4-A has sold as high as $2.59 in Near Mint condition and as low as $0.20 in Very Fine/Near Mint condition. These values are based on the 22 copies that have been sold on ComicCollectorLive.com.Cyberforce (1992) 4-A has a high price listing of $5.99 in Near Mint/Mint condition and low price listing of $0.45 in Very Fine condition. These values are based on the 57 copies that are listed for sale on ComicCollectorLive.com.Cyberforce (1992) 4-A is in 4 wish lists.ComicCollectorLive.com calculates its market statistics, pricing, and valuation for Cyberforce (1992) 4-A by compiling the sales and listings of each book. These valuations are extrapolated based on the actual sales and listings of all Comic Book shops combined. We hope that these statistics will help collectors with the appraisal of their collections

Cyberforce (1992) 4-CComic Book by Image, Jul 1993Regular Cover with BARCODE (note the barcode does not have those 2 separated digits?)Market SummaryCyberforce (1992) 4-C has sold as high as $4.99 in Near Mint/Mint condition and as low as $0.98 in Very Fine/Near Mint condition. These values are based on the 3 copies that have been sold on ComicCollectorLive.com.Cyberforce (1992) 4-C has a high price listing of $2.59 in Near Mint condition and low price listing of $1.25 in Near Mint condition. These values are based on the 14 copies that are listed for sale on ComicCollectorLive.com.Cyberforce (1992) 4-C is in 11 wish lists.ComicCollectorLive.com calculates its market statistics, pricing, and valuation for Cyberforce (1992) 4-C by compiling the sales and listings of each book. These valuations are extrapolated based on the actual sales and listings of all Comic Book shops combined. We hope that these statistics will help collectors with the appraisal of their collections.

Comparing the two, the NEWSTAND (C) is obviously RARER.

Why is it rarer?Printed and distributed via NEWSTANDS, and ended up in fewer collections based on these facts here on CCL..

Above and beyond whatever is routinely copy pasted as the general guidelines

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Currently, CCL only allows newsstand/directs if there is a significant and justifiable difference in value to the book.

Someone copy pasting this into the guideline for future reference or do we have to quote it over and over again with future submissions?

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CCL still considers guides such as the OVERSTREET to be a trusted source for variations of this type and they do call out some differences in their price guide...but not every book.

This is where Thor reappears and says a little common sense should apply since not all values will have made it into Overstreet.

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But when it becomes the direction of BUYERS...that is when a more serious consideration of this will take place.

Loki's back using doublespeak to basically say use the sales to buyers as proof while not outright saying we can list seperately to establish the track record. Either that or he's implying we hack into Denver's sales data. I do tend to get confussed at times.

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In closing, let me say

Nothing to address the timeframe for the conversion to online or any of the other topics in question or any of the suggestions made to improve or broaden it's implementation.Bamf!!! Photobucket Pages

I'd like to add another example I just discovered and think it stays on topic.

Cyberforce (1992) 4-AJul 1993Silver Chromium Cover60 for sale on CCLThis was the understood DIRECT EDITION.Market SummaryCyberforce (1992) 4-A has sold as high as $2.59 in Near Mint condition and as low as $0.20 in Very Fine/Near Mint condition. These values are based on the 22 copies that have been sold on ComicCollectorLive.com.Cyberforce (1992) 4-A has a high price listing of $5.99 in Near Mint/Mint condition and low price listing of $0.45 in Very Fine condition. These values are based on the 57 copies that are listed for sale on ComicCollectorLive.com.Cyberforce (1992) 4-A is in 4 wish lists.ComicCollectorLive.com calculates its market statistics, pricing, and valuation for Cyberforce (1992) 4-A by compiling the sales and listings of each book. These valuations are extrapolated based on the actual sales and listings of all Comic Book shops combined. We hope that these statistics will help collectors with the appraisal of their collections

Cyberforce (1992) 4-CComic Book by Image, Jul 1993Regular Cover with BARCODE (note the barcode does not have those 2 separated digits?)Market SummaryCyberforce (1992) 4-C has sold as high as $4.99 in Near Mint/Mint condition and as low as $0.98 in Very Fine/Near Mint condition. These values are based on the 3 copies that have been sold on ComicCollectorLive.com.Cyberforce (1992) 4-C has a high price listing of $2.59 in Near Mint condition and low price listing of $1.25 in Near Mint condition. These values are based on the 14 copies that are listed for sale on ComicCollectorLive.com.Cyberforce (1992) 4-C is in 11 wish lists.ComicCollectorLive.com calculates its market statistics, pricing, and valuation for Cyberforce (1992) 4-C by compiling the sales and listings of each book. These valuations are extrapolated based on the actual sales and listings of all Comic Book shops combined. We hope that these statistics will help collectors with the appraisal of their collections.

Comparing the two, the NEWSTAND (C) is obviously RARER.

Why is it rarer?Printed and distributed via NEWSTANDS, and ended up in fewer collections based on these facts here on CCL..

This has nothing to do with it being a Newsstand/direct difference. It has to do with the fact that one is a Chromium cover and one is not. That's more than enough for collectors to want both.

And nowhere does it tell you how many of either issue is in people's collections so I'm really not sure how you can say that 4-C is rarer because it "ended up in fewer collections based on these facts here on CCL." There are no facts to back that up.

monidaw1 wrote:

Actually we've already established that there has been shown to be qty difference and that has been recognized here in other cover variants by things like 1:10 Cover and such implying that a comic with 9 more of Cover A than B makes B more valuable potentially.

Uh, no. They're listed separately because they're different art. The information that one is a 1:10 cover is there to provide some detail about the cover, not to imply that it has more value.

But wait, you've stated that having a ratio in the Caption is not necessary. So, does that mean you don't see a need to list it as a separate variant?

Currently, CCL only allows newsstand/directs if there is a significant and justifiable difference in value to the book.

Someone copy pasting this into the guideline for future reference or do we have to quote it over and over again with future submissions?

It IS in the guidelines under Variants & Reprints paragraph 2 (or just search Newsstand) and has been quoted in this very thread.

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2) Newstand Edition UPC vs. Direct Edition UPC - When all else is the same (cover, price, paper, quality, contents) CCL accepts only one entry as the standard issue UNLESS there is a clearly identifiable value difference in the secondary market value between Newsstand and Direct Editions.

Actually many of us have only been asking for one's we can establish are actually likely to be worth more than their counterparts due to verifiable sources like Marvels production numbers or excessive values applied elsewhere. If the pendelum swings and CCL wants them all and requests it I'm more than willing to provide much of the labor to track them down and submit them but as we mentioned many times it doesn't seem to be a strong desire to have all of them, just a few.

That's worth considering if for nothing else possibly a next stage of evolution for CCL going into 2013. Put me together some numbers and examples of what you're talking about and send them to my personal e-mail address: steve_midten@hotmaildotcom.

But wait, you've stated that having a ratio in the Caption is not necessary. So, does that mean you don't see a need to list it as a separate variant?

I've gone on record many times to say that for my personnel desires being to read the book only, I couldn't care less frequently if it even has a cover and therfore could live with never seeing another blue folder or any mention of variants or distinctions. That being said, most of this discussion isn't about what I want. I work in the fetch it and pack it department with an occasional side job of helping those who ask, get something included in their database. In this case the answer to your question would be if it's listed I wouldn't see the need to include 1.4:10 in the caption. A simple mention of actual production numbers or other such pertinent information could be added in the bio area if such information was availible and referencable.Bamf!!! Photobucket Pages

Nothing to address the timeframe for the conversion to online or any of the other topics in question or any of the suggestions made to improve or broaden it's implementation.

All true...because I didn't give one.

With all due respect, I didn't come out to here to get kicked or have my words twisted around, my friend. lol I told you I understand the concern and the points, but there's more that you're going to have to come up with besides debunking Overstreet for lack of entries or an assumed lack of interest on our part. I came out here to remind everyone what the established protocol is. If you want to convince the POWERS THAT BE (which by the way, isn't just me) to make a fundamental change to the database, you gotta give me a little more a few forum posts and a few FREEBAY sales, man.

And for future reference, here's what the guidelines say:

"2) Newstand Edition UPC vs. Direct Edition UPC - When all else is the same (cover, price, paper, quality, contents) CCL accepts only one entry as the standard issue UNLESS there is a clearly identifiable value difference in the secondary market value between Newsstand and Direct Editions."

There's a reason "clearly identifiable value difference" is both specific and vague from a membership standpoint. If Overstreet says the book is worth $300 as opposed to $3.50 then, that would totally fit the bill. If someone FREEBAY auction #4692057332-1 is a copy of ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #65 Newsstand that sells to someone in Boise Idaho for $467...that's not enough in our book right now to add them to the CCLdb (which we work VERY hard to maintain and keep clean with new entries and variants) and I hope people understand why.

That's worth considering if for nothing else possibly a next stage of evolution for CCL going into 2013. Put me together some numbers and examples of what you're talking about and send them to my personal e-mail address: steve_midten@hotmaildotcom.

That's worth considering if for nothing else possibly a next stage of evolution for CCL going into 2013. Put me together some numbers and examples of what you're talking about and send them to my personal e-mail address: steve_midten@hotmaildotcom.

Trying to do that for you for the last week. We just keep getting side tracked.

Allow me to go ahead and apologize now in case any of my attempts at humor have been percieved as anything other than that. I can tell you it sucks to have OCD. I know you can't come out and give an exact time frame publically. I can tell you for certain I'm excited and terrified about it at the same time and I'm going to keep tossing ideas out as they come along to help make it bigger, better, broader and sooner if at all possible because if you aren't growing then what's the point. I'm laying in bed at 3Am thinking of ways these changes can improve things when I should be sleeping knowing I have to get up at 5Am and start packing orders most mornings. Little things, like a simple delete button on the Sell Items Tabs folders. Will the online data/softwareless option be able to handle a million books without self destructing? Will the scanner thing have an extra long cable so we can move around with it or maybe be wireless? Will there be some type of backup to the online stuff that can be saved offline and viewed even if there's no software to work on it offline? Does the CEO ever get the urge to say hi on the board even if it's just once in a blue moon? Even the Pope waves from the window occasionaly. Any discount planned for multiple users in the same family taping into the dataonline thing for multiple same house collections and stores? Select all for titles going in? I'm pretty sure you're still working the coupon code and qty buttons into the new stuff. When do we get to play with the trial versions? Will Scott ever believe in you half as much as Santa believes in a little red light on occasion being good? Is Tamwood ever gonna get around to offering those coverless new books?

Back to work, the last question lost in the chaos.

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Anyone familiar with Nows distribution percentages?

The whyfore and whowannaknow parts to help identify why Denver is charging the same for newsstand editions of Green Hornet as they do for direct with the assumption being they must be availible in comparible qty and therefore no difference in value exists.Bamf!!! Photobucket Pages

The whyfore and whowannaknow parts to help identify why Denver is charging the same for newsstand editions of Green Hornet as they do for direct with the assumption being they must be availible in comparible qty and therefore no difference in value exists.

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