to all you alcoholics.
i speak for the spouses,children,friends,and family that you all have thrown away and hurt for so very long.
we cant help you anymore.
we cant feel pity for you anymore.
we've seen it all,and we can't see anymore.
do not try and talk to us,we will not listen.
just leave us all.
go away and drink yourselves to death,and we will believe that at your drunkest moment,you realized what you have done.
dying for us,will allow us to try and live again.
as long as you are alive,you are killing us.
please,,,just die already.

Originally we were going to delete this message because it sounded negative and we were not sure if it would help. But sometimes people get frustrated and need to vent, so we left the message as it stands.

I am very thankful the mediators left this. I have been in Al-anon for10 months now and my AH is in recovery for the same amount of time. We are married 10 years all with the Alchoholic drunk.
We are always going through new stages of life and yes sometimes I feel the same way Dave even when he is sober times are not easy. but what I had to learn and trust me I still am learning is how to deal with me. We living with the alchoholics need our own healing. Something in our personalities has kept us with them. You should try the paths to recovery or the courage to change a daily reading. I am not saying my life is a bowl of cherries without pits. I am saying we too have defects of character and we need to free ourself s from our own pain first. Then we may be able to understand and support our A's. They may not treat us with the respect we deserve or the kindness we show them but they like us need someone or something to be our rock and in time I know my patience will pay off.

I wish you all the best and try an alanon meeting it may help they are even online.

It is said that when somebody else acts, and I cannot control my feelings over that, that I am Co-Dependant. This note that you wrote, in a nutshell, spells out how those who voluntarily involve themselves with people in addiction are deeply disturbed and need some help too. Unless a man is in a cell with another, or is in some simular circumstance, it is voluntary interaction. The fact that we can become so negative, that we can become so charged with reaction all the while blaming others for our feelings is a sickness that in a perverse way, attracts us to other people in their addiction. We who are Co-Dependant, usually beg or comand. We rarely just walk away from what is unhealthy. Instead, we put ourselves in a position to cure the other person where other medical or spiritual treatments have failed in their lives. in short, we tend to step into the lions mouth, and then complain when he starts knashing his teeth! It is true that we all get screwed by people from time to time. They even outright lie, cheat, beg, borrow, manipulate, and steal! But wouldn't a healthy person be able to draw a line and then say goodbye when the person steps over it? You sound as if more than one of your lines has been steped over. while your feelings are valid, they are probably a healthy response to what you have been through, just look at how much you have put yourself through to feel so wroth! And if just crossing the line once has put you in such apathy, how lonely you must feel when any one of a hundred people tries to make friends with you. I learn to let go of people with love and understanding before I get a consuming negativity becuase I feel better all through the day. That allows me to have some peace of mind. I forgive while there is still not much to forgive because a deep resentment is like a wet blanket that can soak you down to the bone. I look at sick people like they are sick. As I discover that a man has cancer, I realize that only the cancer doctor can fix him, and I don't look at him as if he can sure himself of it either. I view the alcoholic and addict the same way. That if they aren't applying the medecine to treat their condition, they are not going to get better. For with the training to deal with and treat the sick comes the training to deal with your reaction to their illness. My reaction to other peoples problems are in direct proportion to my ability to help them with it. Just because somebody isn't well, it doesn't mean that I have to expose myself to their disease. Especially if I do not possess the ability to deal with it! May the peace of God find you my friend.

that "just kill yourself" really hit home. I was told that not long ago, it kinda helps knowing that frustration like that isn't unique to my Dad. I know I put him though alot and I don't think he could ever phathom how much remorse I have for what I've done. I just hope one day things can all be better. I don't think he knows how much I really care.

Dave you should just speak for yourself not for anybody else, it's not right, we need to let others speak for them selves. I can sense a little frustration in your share, I don't know your present situation if you are living with or have a relative who has alcoholism let them know there is help out there. If you can afford it maybe by them the book Alcoholics Anonymous, you might benefit from reading it also especially chaper 8. There's help out there for you like it was suggested try an AlaNon meeting. May God grant you serenity for the things you cannot change.

I can COMPLETLEY understand Dave's feelings! I have been divorced from our alcoholic for 10 years. We have 3 kids - 11, 14 and 15. I was the one who took him to rehab the first time last year - other family members took him the other 3 times. After the torment our children went though - having to move due to financial situation - no money from him because of 32 weeks in rehab - he came into our home (he had no where else to go - his dad told him to leave because he was drinking there) and drank for a week a few weeks ago. On that Sunday, our children went to friends' homes and refused to come back to their home until he left. I offered to drive him to his father's house after explaining that this is the children's home first and foremost. The alcoholic decided to take off in his vehcile after what we found out later was a 3 week binge. No eating or working just drinking and sleeping. After a week there was still no word - we started looking off the side of the road because we knew he was dead in a ditch somewhere. We filed a missing person's report and kept looking. About a week later I received a phone call from an ER in a different state. He drove there because he could purchase beer on Sunday and stayed in a hotel until he finally called an ambulance to take him to the hospital to sober up. He now walks back in to the children's lives and wants to act like nothing happened - "it is over so forget about it". We can't. My children are suffering and want nothing to do with him. He has recently - after all these years, admitted that he is an alcoholic. Prior to that he would say that he hates the "A word" and that he "self medicates with alcohol". I can tell you that Dave seems to have the guts to say/write what many of us feel but are ashamed to state out loud. That would make us the "bad" people, right? We should all forgive and forget, right? Well, when is enough, enough? How long do children have to be tormented wondering if their father is alive or dead? He is in the process of killing himself as it is. I know for a fact that one of my children actually said out loud that they hoped he did die because then that would end the wondering and the nightmares.I have tried to be supportive - after all, he is the father of my children. But they have to come first. I am the only parent they have and I can't waste any more energy on his recovery. It has been all about him for too many years. I have been the one who has been here and listened to them cry - listen to my youngest son remember that his father has a gun in the vehicle and cry because what if daddy uses it because mommy asked him to leave. What if he does it because he thinks his children no longer love him. I did explain to dad that they will always love him - but they do not trust him and do NOT respect him. The lies, the money - they wonder how daddy can stay at a hotel and drink but not buy them a pair of shoes they have asked him for over the last several months. Dave, I really do understand. And thank you for being able to communicate what many of us feel but are made to feel ashamed for stating or even thinking!

It is not a matter of sin - it is a matter of torture - when your children hate themselves and don't know that the hatred is actually for the alocholic. The person who is supposed to protect them. If it were adult children, I might see that we should all forgive and forget. But the person who gave a child life should protect them from harm. What do you do if the person is the one causing the harm? How many times in rehab over a year - how many broken promises? How much yelling and verbal as well as emotional abuse should the children have to put up with? How many years should they have to move and go without - not only christmas, but when the power or gas or water is cut off because the alcoholic parent can't hold a job to pay child support? How can you make a child understand that it isn't their fault when daddy breaks promises for shoes, or dinner or a birthday present or christmas? Tell me how you make children understand that it isn't their fault? That they should love their father anyway? How a child feels about this situation is always right. You can't tell children that their feelings are wrong or they won't get those feelings out. That is when they start trying to control the only things is life that they can control; not turning in school work, cutting themselves or eating disorders. I can only defend him for so long. Children don't always understand it is a disease to which the parent has no control. No matter how much money is spent on counseling or how many meetings they go to. It really isn't a matter of casting a stone or claiming to be without sin. There has never been a doubt that we all sin. My point is that many of us (not all) do wish that the alcoholic would just get out of our lives and not come back until you have it under control. Let us try to lead some type of normal life without the drama you bring to our children.

I too understand all of those sentiments posted. I am new to the message board but not new to the aspect of living with an alcoholic. I was married for 26 years and left my home on October 31st of this year. Things have been so bad the past 7 years and I can not believe I stayed for that long. As I sit here typing, I am receiving vm's on my cell phone from my husband. His denial and emotional abuse about sent me over the edge earlier. I have two sons who are 21 (in college) and 25 (soon to start a new job and living with a gf). If he is drunk and abusive when he calls, I simply put my phone on silent and won't answer. The problem tearing me apart is that he then starts drunk dialing the kids and I mean continously. He is ripping their lives apart also. I just started journaling again to try to detach and rid myself of emotions. What I really wanted to write in my journal was almost identical to Dave's posting. I couldn't bring myself to write those words but boy was I thinking them. I realize that I have alot of healing to do emotionally. Not to mention facing the fear of living alone and financial concerns. I just keep putting one foot in front of the other and trust in God that I am walking towards the light and away from the god awful darkness that has surrounded me for so long. Even though my boys are older, it is still so terribly hard. I always thought that I was doing the right thing by staying and trying to get him help. I always thought I was being the good citizen by going in the bars and dragging him out to get him home safely. I did that for years. Then I started reading about co-dependency and enabling and saw myself for what I really was. I was so confident I could help him and so caught up in his addiction that I lost sight of who I was and where I should be going. I finally realized that I was slowly dying along with him. I have to get healthy for my sake and also for the sake of the boys. I was starting to come unglued and I knew the kids could never handle two sick parents. I have to say the best thing about being out of the house is the peace I have found at night. Just going to bed and not worrying about the door flying open at midnight is wonderful. Again, I am just learning to detach and have a long road to travel but it's a journey I am ready to take. I pray for all of those affected by alcoholism.

I just want to say thank you to all that have posted in this thread. This is truly what I had in mind when I started this message board, open dialouge between everyone impacted by alcoholism or drug abuse.

You are helping more people than you know by your discussion. They may not be ready to respond, but they read your words.