First you have to understand how this started. Kantor made a thread trying to get as many people into chatbox as possible, we got about 12 and talked for four or five hours and it was really annoying. We were having fun though so we moved to skype, considerably more high-tech than chatbox. Well now we're really having fun making jokes and talking about video games and what computers were like when we were kids (also whether or not Mr. Hands had really died from that video :\). So basically this just never ended, we kept talking all through the next day and so on, people started inviting their friends from the forum, finally Cake just made this thread and here we are.

Now at what point in that were we supposed to move to IRC? That crowd has been around for years, they all know each other well, you have to spend months in there to even begin to get to know most of the people, more like years. Would have even remotely made sense for 15 or 25 of us who are literally being so active we amass tens of thousands of messages a day to just bombard IRC and take over? Hence we're still using Skype six+ months later.

(EDIT: Now that I think about it, a bunch of us even did go into IRC once. I was already in there I think, and everyone else slowly drifted out and stopped showing up over the course of a few days.)

The other reason I like it better being a simple matter of security. Apologies to Cake, which was much more of a grey area (imho) and I'm not going to say whether that was fair or not overall, but if someone is really undeniably being an asshole here (and it's happened before) we can just throw them out. Furthermore, you have to specifically be added to the conversation in the first place, it's not like random people can follow it all and never even be seen (unless someone else does it for them). Now IRC is, let's be honest, a fucking shady place. There are known trolls all over that server who just fuck with people for fun, they can easily get access to all the logs of everything said by everyone, they can log in from different IPs and use different usernames (including those of people you know if they haven't registered them), so on and so forth.

I mean as one example you had a certain other member who basically lurked that channel for over a year trawling for guys she could lie to and manipulate, and who probably still does it from the logs she collects on people, but I don't bother trying to keep up anymore. I've personally had random people just drop in out of no where bugging me with random stuff when they obviously knew who I was, despite my having never heard of them before. I mean I even have IRC logs of some of the people who have been in that chat the longest and most regularly explicitly telling me not to trust anyone else in there.

It's not the end of the world, IRC is fine and I still lurk random rooms and stuff, plus I can hardly say a Skype chat with 30+ people solves these problems entirely, but if you want to just have a fun on-going chatroom with your (online) friends you can see where Skype is personally preferable to me.

blurb blurb

No really, there are no actual IPs anywhere to be seen on this server unless you're staff on the server level. The only thing that shows up is your ISP's hostname which can only give away your country.

Banned

No really, there are no actual IPs anywhere to be seen on this server unless you're staff on the server level. The only thing that shows up is your ISP's hostname which can only give away your country.

Afaik, anyone can do a whois and it'll give out your country and state (if you live in the US). If you're in a big enough city, the hostname will give that away too. That's why it's creepy and not enough.

libertarianism is the modest recognition that your power to choose is as important as mine.​

blurb blurb

Now IRC is, let's be honest, a fucking shady place. There are known trolls all over that server who just fuck with people for fun, they can easily get access to all the logs of everything said by everyone, they can log in from different IPs and use different usernames (including those of people you know if they haven't registered them), so on and so forth.

I mean as one example you had a certain other member who basically lurked that channel for over a year trawling for guys she could lie to and manipulate, and who probably still does it from the logs she collects on people, but I don't bother trying to keep up anymore.

One person doesn't make the whole place troll infested. For all I know there could be dozens of trolls roaming the server, but I don't recall the last instance of trolling on #intpforum.com, it's a pretty peaceful place overall. To be honest, the fact you had a bad experience with this person is due to your own decision to engage her, so don't slander the entire place as being a nest of predators.

blurb blurb

Afaik, anyone can do a whois and it'll give out your country and state (if you live in the US). If you're in a big enough city, the hostname will give that away too. That's why it's creepy and not enough.

Banned

One person doesn't make the whole place troll infested. For all I know there could be dozens of trolls roaming the server, but I don't recall the last instance of trolling on #intpforum.com, it's a pretty peaceful place overall. To be honest, the fact you had a bad experience with this person is due to your own decision to engage her, so don't slander the entire place as being a nest of predators.

You're rather ignoring the fact that it's a much more public area. Anyone can watch what is said there, whether they show themselves or not. I feel like that alone discourages free conversation. I'm not saying I'd prefer things be private, but if you want to watch but aren't willing to show yourself, then you probably have ulterior motives.

Also, she was hardly the only one - at the very least it seems those random people who showed up in #symposium a few times bugging me were probably from her cohort of trolls. I spent a lot of time in there and I admit it was hardly a bloodbath, but then again I also ended up having one of the admins here seemingly go through IRC logs I had ever said in there and find anything he could use against me, regardless of how out of context it was and when some of it was even direct lies. This at a time when someone he may have even been directly working with was threatening people with faked harassment charges. Presumably the reason he didn't realize some of his information was incorrect was because he had, in fact, not been merely reading through the log and remembered a few things, but either merely went back later and skimmed the relevant parts he thought necessary to build his case, or else specifically was only there at the request of the member who is now banned. This seems likely since in all the time I spent in there, I only ever saw Cegorach show up for about a week or two, and it all started coincidentally about the time I got upset with this person. Needless to say I could call into question your own involvement as well as a lot of other people's if I really wanted to.

That's all rather irrelevant though, since quite frankly I have absolutely zero reason to trust anything a stranger says over the internet. Actions speak louder than words and all. But the point is that Skype is like a conversation between friends at the park - we at least all see each other and know that each other are there. IRC is like a conference call where you never know what sort of malicious eavesdropper may be listening in. I don't like having to filter everything I say through, "Can this ever be used against me in the future, in any way?"

blurb blurb

We're talking about #intpforum, not other channels. Get a grip Melllvar, your paranoia, persecution complex and conjecture are getting more and more senseless. The staff is not out to "get you", whatever that means, neither is IRC, (of all things). Nobody has any reason to. What reason could any of us have to harm you? Do you think we're all collectively conspiring with a banned member against you?

I already told you to stop slandering people on forums. If you feel safe on Skype, by all means stay there, nobody is making you go to IRC, or expose yourself to any danger, real or otherwise. Though if this is all irrelevant, why do you keep bringing it up multiple times only to drop out on everything?

You're rather ignoring the fact that it's a much more public area. Anyone can watch what is said there, whether they show themselves or not. I feel like that alone discourages free conversation. I'm not saying I'd prefer things be private, but if you want to watch but aren't willing to show yourself, then you probably have ulterior motives.

Well, to make it clear I never claimed IRC is completely safe. I simply said it's not chock full of trolls. Sure there could be shady people on there, but neither of us knows that, a simple desire for privacy does not equate malicious intent. It's true IRC is an open community and anyone can join, but it's not as tragically dangerous as you present it. Users have an ignore feature at their disposal and if someone is harassing them they can go right to the server owners and bypass the channel operators if they are distrustful. But the point is that anyone could be reading this forum too y'know, just as they could what somebody says in the channel. Somebody could also save people's posts on this forum, anywhere really, if we're being honest the danger is literally everywhere.

Drop out? If you really want to go into it all, I suppose we could, although I see no reason to waste my time asking and listening to the explanations when in the end it will just come down to this: "Can you verify anything you say? If not, then I have no reason to consider it." What's the point when any comment anyone makes could just be another attempt to lure someone into a discussion that could be turned against them? If I were to get into a big debate with you about it, how do I know that discussion won't be held against me later in court or something like that? How do I know you aren't sitting around with people laughing at my responses to this right now? I have no idea why anyone specifically trolls people (maliciously) or what causes the associated amusement which I assume is the reward for doing so. Observationally though, the sport seems to be popular enough.

I bring it up because it's relevant to the explanation of why I prefer Skype over IRC (response to Minuend), and you kept questioning me about it after that. IRC has it's advantages too, for one thing you don't have to ask anyone to be added to the chat, you can just up and join. But let's be honest, can I ever type word in IRC now without thinking, "Who is adding that to their log," or, "Is that new person just one of the old trolls or are they actually a knew person? Is anything they've said to me over the past month even true?"

^Not that I'm particularly inclined to care what you have to say when you make comments like that. By the way, I never did get the long detailed explanation, replete with quotes and such, about how this is true. I would still like to hear it, but forgive me if I don't waste the time responding afterwards. This right now is already a huge waste of the morning.

Fukyo said:

Well, to make it clear I never claimed IRC is completely safe. I simply said it's not chock full of trolls. Sure there could be shady people on there, but neither of us knows that, a simple desire for privacy does not equate malicious intent. It's true IRC is an open community and anyone can join, but it's not as tragically dangerous as you present it. Users have an ignore feature at their disposal and if someone is harassing them they can go right to the server owners and bypass the channel operators if they are distrustful.

I never said not to use IRC, I still use it myself. Just that I do prefer skype for these reasons. As far as the owners though, who are they? Do they care? Can you trust them? How do I know they aren't reading my PMs too? How do I know they don't already have conflicting interests? I don't know any of these things.

Fukyo said:

But the point is that anyone could be reading this forum too y'know, just as they could what somebody says in the channel. Somebody could also save people's posts on this forum, anywhere really, if we're being honest the danger is literally everywhere.

Yes, I'm aware. I regret having been so open here in the past, but I never imagined I would attract any attention to myself either. As it is I often don't post things I would normally have said because it might reveal something about me. Even when I think something is "safe" I still have to wonder if it can be pieced together with some other piece of information I thought was safe at the time too. Oh well, my own fault for being naive in the past I suppose.

Point being that you really never know, and it doesn't take the majority of community being sleazy fucks to inspire enough distrust where you can't reasonably take anyone at face value, just enough that it isn't worth taking the risk. This is really part of why I'm such a misanthrope; do people really think this species will be able to sustain itself once technology gets to the point where a few people of mild intelligence can do things which affect the entire species globally? The only reason we even survive from day to day is because there are tangible boundaries on how much harm any one individual can wreck in a given amount of time.

I'd been meaning to read Schneier's new book Liars and Outliers, as it seems to largely deal with these sorts of questions, but haven't managed the time yet. Hopefully this weekend/next week.

Member

Still trying to decipher the benefit in joining this forum. Originally my intentions were to find people who I could go beyond shallow irrelevant topics and enjoy enlightening debates. Jury is till out whether coming here is worth my time.

lust for life

Still trying to decipher the benefit in joining this forum. Originally my intentions were to find people who I could go beyond shallow irrelevant topics and enjoy enlightening debates. Jury is till out whether coming here is worth my time.

Imagination keeps you from insanity

If you leave someone alone in the dark for that long, their eyes start to adjust. They start to see things, no matter how small. Because if they exist they can help you. Help you do the only thing you want to do whenyou’re alone in the dark;getout

Imagination keeps you from insanity

It's kinda odd, but for some reason my skype crashed, for an update and now those 2 friend requests I saw just like... disappeared. Please resend for me to join chat. idk what's wrong with my skype though. :/ might have to reinstall.

OKAY I FIGURED IT OUT!!! Now how do I explain my intuitions?

If you leave someone alone in the dark for that long, their eyes start to adjust. They start to see things, no matter how small. Because if they exist they can help you. Help you do the only thing you want to do whenyou’re alone in the dark;getout

Active Member

"Where is it I've read that someone condemned to death says or thinks, an hour before his death, that if he had to live on some high rock, on such a narrow ledge that he'd only room to stand, and the ocean, everlasting darkness, everlasting solitude, everlasting tempest around him, if he had to remain standing on a square yard of space all his life, a thousand years, eternity, it were better to live so than to die at once! Only to live, to live and live! Life, whatever it may be!"
~Dostoyevsky

Prolific Member

^Because the conversation and pacing is possibly more appealing to INTPs? You can pop in and out whenever you want, don't have to listen unless you want, can find specific people that you genuinely enjoy talking with one-on-one, etc. Also more conducive to random/inane/obscure comments with nerdy references which you can put in whenever you want. And you don't have to worry too much about them being actually noticed or responded to, thereby relieving you of the burden of conversation.

Generally each person has a lot more control and a lot less social stress/irritation over how they want to participate. Especially since it's a large group - the conversation is (or was) ongoing, so you can really pop in any time you feel like talking, and pop out anytime you don't feel like it, knowing some other INTP clone will immediately fill the hole you left. You can participate without having a huge impact, and therefore avoid responsibilities. Most of what causes annoyance for INTPs in conversation isn't present in this kind of setup, imo, aside from stupidity which you could run into anywhere.

Though it all changes as the group ages and people start to actually know each other.

Finding your 'end of the line' is not the real end of the line. It's a problem to be solved. It's an opportunity for growth. The spirit must keep advancing, just as technology does, just as humanity does.

Gone.

But that would imply that this chat doesn't suck about 10 bags of dicks.
[It does.]

And the chat doesn't belong to any of you.
I started this thread. I was the one who wanted to invite more people.
You kicked me out.
You were the one who was butthurt.
Would you really listen to everything a girl tells you?
Fuck you. <3

Well, people are different (as are INTPs). On some days there's funny GIFs and gossip, other days there's deeper shit, sometimes both at the same time. If the right people are around, I'm sure you can get a good discussion started about pretty much anything.

If somebody told me I had only one hour to live, I'd spend it choking an INTP. I'd do it nice and slow.

Prolific Member

But that would imply that this chat doesn't suck about 10 bags of dicks.
[It does.]

And the chat doesn't belong to any of you.
I started this thread. I was the one who wanted to invite more people.
You kicked me out.
You were the one who was butthurt.
Would you really listen to everything a girl tells you?
Fuck you. <3

Blarraun: *a tribe studied patterns of xbox's appearances, after finding regularities in its advent the elderly decided to appeal to the gods of time and season by lifting stone slabs carved with runes corresponding to the astronomical sightings*

But that would imply that this chat doesn't suck about 10 bags of dicks.
[It does.]

And the chat doesn't belong to any of you.
I started this thread. I was the one who wanted to invite more people.
You kicked me out.
You were the one who was butthurt.
Would you really listen to everything a girl tells you?
Fuck you. <3