Putins not dangerous, America is dangerous, plus it’s not just Germany buying Russian gas, the US should stop meddling in European affairs, wasn’t the US under Trump supposed to isolate itself from the world, it’s not doing a very good job of it.

Putins not dangerous, America is dangerous, plus it’s not just Germany buying Russian gas, the US should stop meddling in European affairs, wasn’t the US under Trump supposed to isolate itself from the world, it’s not doing a very good job of it.

Gotta try harder than that if you want to earn that paycheck from the Kremlin.

Putins not dangerous, America is dangerous, plus it’s not just Germany buying Russian gas, the US should stop meddling in European affairs, wasn’t the US under Trump supposed to isolate itself from the world, it’s not doing a very good job of it.

I don't believe the Americans really care enough to meddle in Europe. More, new Russian sanctions are not about Europe, get over yourself, although it glaringly exposes Europe's Achilles heel - again. Putin thanks you all.

And that's why there is no way to have an intelligent debate with you about the subject, you will shoot down every option besides the official Russian version and you will believe no justice system besides the Russian one. So you are either indoctrinated by the Russian government or you are a Russian troll.

We will see what happens with getting justice for the 298 innocent victims by Russian aggression. As for the sanctions they were for the annexation of Crimea and for the continuing of support for the east Ukranian rebels.

I have absolutely no faith in Dutch justice. And there's not even that the court should allegedly take place in Russia - no. The international court of justice must be seized of the case, but it must be independent and not influenced by any party. However, as we see in practice, as for example with the justified CAS athletes from Russia - even recognition of innocence of Russians through court means nothing for those whose purpose - to discredit Russia. And given the mass hysteria raised in the crash of the MH17, when all the leading Western media hastened to accuse the Russians of the plane crash, I am absolutely not verb in an objective consideration of the case. The guilty have already been appointed, and it does not matter who is really to blame for your politicians. Yes and for you, judging by your statements -, too, no matter.I'm just warning you that this idiotic behavior will eventually lead to a big war.I'm just warning you that this idiotic behavior will eventually lead to a big war. We in Russia this war not want, but and not afraid to in it to join, so as us Argumenty, that the West constantly sticks its nose in our Affairs and in sphere of our interests. We have seen enough dishonesty and lack of integrity from the West, so we got tired of it. Have you been warned not to Wake the bear? You're very close to that right now.

Putins not dangerous, America is dangerous, plus it’s not just Germany buying Russian gas, the US should stop meddling in European affairs, wasn’t the US under Trump supposed to isolate itself from the world, it’s not doing a very good job of it.

Gotta try harder than that if you want to earn that paycheck from the Kremlin.

You look extremely stupid when you try to accuse your opponent of allegedly being an agent of the Kremlin. By the way, this shows that chauvinism and discrimination in the West are still flourishing. Just before you have second-class citizens declared those who did not meet the standards of skin color and eye shape, and now you think second-class citizens those who do not meet the standards imposed on you political views and worldview. You're showing the same racism in fact, only modified.

I'm just warning you that this idiotic behavior will eventually lead to a big war. We in Russia this war not want, but and not afraid to in it to join, so as us Argumenty, that the West constantly sticks its nose in our Affairs and in sphere of our interests. We have seen enough dishonesty and lack of integrity from the West, so we got tired of it. Have you been warned not to Wake the bear? You're very close to that right now.

I'm just warning you that this idiotic behavior will eventually lead to a big war. We in Russia this war not want, but and not afraid to in it to join, so as us Argumenty, that the West constantly sticks its nose in our Affairs and in sphere of our interests. We have seen enough dishonesty and lack of integrity from the West, so we got tired of it. Have you been warned not to Wake the bear? You're very close to that right now.

Well that says it all, doesn't it, folks?

Especially considering that the best outcome Russia could hope for in any big war is not being the only loser.....

Without numerous acts of war against its neigbours everything would be peachy, but the bear went raiding tents and killing campers, usually bears doing so get put down pretty final, to stay in his analogy.

And that's why there is no way to have an intelligent debate with you about the subject, you will shoot down every option besides the official Russian version and you will believe no justice system besides the Russian one. So you are either indoctrinated by the Russian government or you are a Russian troll.

We will see what happens with getting justice for the 298 innocent victims by Russian aggression. As for the sanctions they were for the annexation of Crimea and for the continuing of support for the east Ukranian rebels.

I have absolutely no faith in Dutch justice. And there's not even that the court should allegedly take place in Russia - no. The international court of justice must be seized of the case, but it must be independent and not influenced by any party. However, as we see in practice, as for example with the justified CAS athletes from Russia - even recognition of innocence of Russians through court means nothing for those whose purpose - to discredit Russia. And given the mass hysteria raised in the crash of the MH17, when all the leading Western media hastened to accuse the Russians of the plane crash, I am absolutely not verb in an objective consideration of the case. The guilty have already been appointed, and it does not matter who is really to blame for your politicians. Yes and for you, judging by your statements -, too, no matter.I'm just warning you that this idiotic behavior will eventually lead to a big war.I'm just warning you that this idiotic behavior will eventually lead to a big war. We in Russia this war not want, but and not afraid to in it to join, so as us Argumenty, that the West constantly sticks its nose in our Affairs and in sphere of our interests. We have seen enough dishonesty and lack of integrity from the West, so we got tired of it. Have you been warned not to Wake the bear? You're very close to that right now.

Dutch system is ranked 5th in the world, so it is independent of the government as has been shown numerous of times. International court (UN-backed) was offered but blocked by your government so you are not at par with Putin's government in this case, interesting, so that makes you less of a Russian troll.

For the Olympics: if there was a government led doping program (yes it has been proven before you get started, from 2008), that country plus all athletes would probably have been banned, so yes Russia was a special case, it was treated better than others, why is the question and the same for CAS. Unfortunately, top-class sport is rotten to the core.CAS isn't at par with a court of justice, so don't compare the two.

"And given the mass hysteria raised in the crash of the MH17" Mass hysteria? I take offense on behave of the relatives and friends whom got killed by a Russian BUK (proven).

Western media doesn't convict people, the independent court system does in the West. (BTW your media and military was very fast to point to Ukraine so how do you judge that? ).

Russia doesn't want war, yet they initiate war in all kinds of independent nations, which you consider part of Russia. You're sound like a hypocrite.

So it all bears down on the difference on what Russians think they are entitled to and what the rest of the world thinks of that

For the Olympics: if there was a government led doping program (yes it has been proven before you get started, from 2008), that country plus all athletes would probably have been banned, so yes Russia was a special case, it was treated better than others, why is the question and the same for CAS. Unfortunately, top-class sport is rotten to the core.CAS isn't at par with a court of justice, so don't compare the two.

Dutchy - can you at last make up your mind on what’s more important to you: an independent court system or conclusions of some sort of “independent commissions”? In this post you are advocating for an independent court system, and yet still want to stick to your “state sponsored doping scheme” topic. It’s hard to say up to what degree CAS truly independent, but it certainly is much closer to true independent justice system than those “independent commissions”.

And the results of that hearing showed some serious systemic flaws with those “commissions” - against overwhelming majority of athletes there is simply no proof, and only 11 athletes out of 240 or so were found guilty, and only 2 winners. This just doesn’t even closely resemble a state-sponsored doping scheme, agree? At its max - a conspiracy in doping use or a corruption crime, but nothing related to a state-sponsored scheme.

And these “independent commissions” just admire me. Look at their reaction - “what? Did we really need an absolute proof???”. What did you want people - just accuse someone of something and now have to be held responsible for that? Hence this is what these “commissions” are - they gathered a bunch of dudes who decided that they can now decide fates, and on top of that keep fighting for that right. If you look how these “independent commissions” worked - that resembles some sort of “simplified justice” - a-la Stalin’s Troikas of 1937. Around the same time, in your Eastern neighbors’ country similar “independent commissions” were sending people straight to gas chambers. In your own country in Middle Ages such “commissions” were igniting fires in centers of your own cities. This is thanks to what now we have a notion of an independent court system. So are you looking to return back to those darkest pages of your own history?

We were talking about who’s more dangerous - Russia or the USA, right? Speaking of “invasion” - in almost 4 years nobody has ever seen even a single “invader”, neither dead or alive. All prisoner exchanges involved citizens of only one country - Ukraine. I think it’s time to stop searches for this “invasion”.

Hacking - it just stops looking good. USA (and European countries as well) are what - some sort of failed states, “banana republics” where anybody can elect them their leaders? Even if some medding did occur - you analyze how it happened, begin with punishing those inside (in Clinton’s case, who mishandled classified information), and stop this world-wide blah-blah. Seriously - it stopped looking good long ago.

For the Olympics: if there was a government led doping program (yes it has been proven before you get started, from 2008), that country plus all athletes would probably have been banned, so yes Russia was a special case, it was treated better than others, why is the question and the same for CAS. Unfortunately, top-class sport is rotten to the core.CAS isn't at par with a court of justice, so don't compare the two.

Dutchy - can you at last make up your mind on what’s more important to you: an independent court system or conclusions of some sort of “independent commissions”? In this post you are advocating for an independent court system, and yet still want to stick to your “state-sponsored doping scheme” topic. It’s hard to say up to what degree CAS truly independent, but it certainly is much closer to true independent justice system than those “independent commissions”.

And the results of that hearing showed some serious systemic flaws with those “commissions” - against the overwhelming majority of athletes there is simply no proof, and only 11 athletes out of 240 or so were found guilty, and only 2 winners. This just doesn’t even closely resemble a state-sponsored doping scheme, agree? At its max - a conspiracy in doping use or a corruption crime, but nothing related to a state-sponsored scheme.

And these “independent commissions” just admire me. Look at their reaction - “what? Did we really need an absolute proof???”. What did you want people - just accuse someone of something and now have to be held responsible for that? Hence this is what these “commissions” are - they gathered a bunch of dudes who decided that they can now decide fates, and on top of that keep fighting for that right. If you look how these “independent commissions” worked - that resembles some sort of “simplified justice” - a-la Stalin’s Troikas of 1937. Around the same time, in your Eastern neighbors’ country similar “independent commissions” were sending people straight to gas chambers. In your own country in Middle Ages such “commissions” were igniting fires in centers of your own cities. This is thanks to what now we have a notion of an independent court system. So are you looking to return back to those darkest pages of your own history?

Haha, what a meaningless dribble. You have made your employer proud.

For MH17, I would have preferred an international court of justice, but the next best thing is a national court in one of the countries which has one of the best court systems in the world.

As for the Olympics - first and foremost it is a sport, not that important, so hilarious that Russians feel so mistreated by this. State-sponsored doping program is known to exist in Russia, no doubt about that - and yes you and the other Putin lackeys try to frame it otherwise but not doing a great job at it -, so the Russian state can't be trusted in this. Go complain to Putin.

For MH17, I would have preferred an international court of justice, but the next best thing is a national court in one of the countries which has one of the best court systems in the world.

As for the Olympics - first and foremost it is a sport, not that important, so hilarious that Russians feel so mistreated by this. State-sponsored doping program is known to exist in Russia, no doubt about that - and yes you and the other Putin lackeys try to frame it otherwise but not doing a great job at it -, so the Russian state can't be trusted in this. Go complain to Putin.

And that was the last time I fed the resident troll.

I do not write this kind of things at work - there I am busy with other things, and if my manager sees me writing this "dribble" it will be the last thing I get to write on that job. You can be assured at that.

For MH17 - international court of justice is yet to be established. And even courts of a country with the best court system are limited in their jurisdiction to just that country. If your country wants to get a Russian citizen penalized; your investigators will need to go to Russian court and prove their case there, according to Russian legislature. Same is true about Russia. There are international agreements between most EU countries and Russia on cooperation in law enforcement, so it's doable if your investigators have a case.

Speaking of "not important" - what do you mean? People dedicate their life to perfecting their mastery for these Olympics, and "not that important"? Their reputation is also "not important"? That how do you draw the boundary between what's important and what's not important? Today sports is not important, tomorrow financial relationships are not important, and a bit later - individuals mentioned in some "reports" as being "not certain to be good" and can be sent to a gas chamber or into exile? In the world calling itself "democratic" court systems regularly handles large cases about reputation damage, and there is a lot of it here apparently.

Speaking of "known to exist" - known to whom and how? And why in that case the results of the very first real court trial show just a tiny shadow of what they would have shown had such a scheme existed? Just don't push us "FSB" or "hole in the wall" stories.

For the Olympics: if there was a government led doping program (yes it has been proven before you get started, from 2008), that country plus all athletes would probably have been banned, so yes Russia was a special case, it was treated better than others, why is the question and the same for CAS. Unfortunately, top-class sport is rotten to the core.CAS isn't at par with a court of justice, so don't compare the two.

Dutchy - can you at last make up your mind on what’s more important to you: an independent court system or conclusions of some sort of “independent commissions”? In this post you are advocating for an independent court system, and yet still want to stick to your “state-sponsored doping scheme” topic. It’s hard to say up to what degree CAS truly independent, but it certainly is much closer to true independent justice system than those “independent commissions”.

And the results of that hearing showed some serious systemic flaws with those “commissions” - against the overwhelming majority of athletes there is simply no proof, and only 11 athletes out of 240 or so were found guilty, and only 2 winners. This just doesn’t even closely resemble a state-sponsored doping scheme, agree? At its max - a conspiracy in doping use or a corruption crime, but nothing related to a state-sponsored scheme.

And these “independent commissions” just admire me. Look at their reaction - “what? Did we really need an absolute proof???”. What did you want people - just accuse someone of something and now have to be held responsible for that? Hence this is what these “commissions” are - they gathered a bunch of dudes who decided that they can now decide fates, and on top of that keep fighting for that right. If you look how these “independent commissions” worked - that resembles some sort of “simplified justice” - a-la Stalin’s Troikas of 1937. Around the same time, in your Eastern neighbors’ country similar “independent commissions” were sending people straight to gas chambers. In your own country in Middle Ages such “commissions” were igniting fires in centers of your own cities. This is thanks to what now we have a notion of an independent court system. So are you looking to return back to those darkest pages of your own history?

Haha, what a meaningless dribble. You have made your employer proud.

For MH17, I would have preferred an international court of justice, but the next best thing is a national court in one of the countries which has one of the best court systems in the world.

As for the Olympics - first and foremost it is a sport, not that important, so hilarious that Russians feel so mistreated by this. State-sponsored doping program is known to exist in Russia, no doubt about that - and yes you and the other Putin lackeys try to frame it otherwise but not doing a great job at it -, so the Russian state can't be trusted in this. Go complain to Putin.

And that was the last time I fed the resident troll.

If you are not too overworked with these insults? Notice that neither I, nor anrec80, nor anyone else, called you any agent (CIA , for example). If you don't respect us, we won't condescend to your opinion either. In the end, your rudeness towards opponents getting tired.And the same accusations of Russia in the Downing of MH17. The until proven guilty (and the trial never was) - you have no right to declare someone else's fault as proven fact. The truth is, in real life, I'd be suing you in court for libel and insult of dignity. So be careful in your chauvinistic statements. Please.

If you are not too overworked with these insults? Notice that neither I, nor anrec80, nor anyone else, called you any agent (CIA , for example). If you don't respect us, we won't condescend to your opinion either. In the end, your rudeness towards opponents getting tired.And the same accusations of Russia in the Downing of MH17. The until proven guilty (and the trial never was) - you have no right to declare someone else's fault as proven fact. The truth is, in real life, I'd be suing you in court for libel and insult of dignity. So be careful in your chauvinistic statements. Please.

Look guy you killed 298 innocent people with you goddamned BUK missile. There's nothing to debate - and as long as you keep spouting this same nonsensical line, your hands are as bloody as the guy who pushed the launch button. Any respect you get from me has nothing to do with you, it's respect for the venue here: A.net.

If you are not too overworked with these insults? Notice that neither I, nor anrec80, nor anyone else, called you any agent (CIA , for example). If you don't respect us, we won't condescend to your opinion either. In the end, your rudeness towards opponents getting tired.And the same accusations of Russia in the Downing of MH17. The until proven guilty (and the trial never was) - you have no right to declare someone else's fault as proven fact. The truth is, in real life, I'd be suing you in court for libel and insult of dignity. So be careful in your chauvinistic statements. Please.

You still don't get it. If you punch someone, be sure you are prepared to take a beating and don't be a crybaby. I don't respect someone's opinions when they are in gross violation of the facts.

As for the MH17: Russia is responsible (point). The factual basis (based on official reports) for that (I accept you will never accept these facts, just as a child doesn't accept that Santa isn't real): - Russia annexing part of Ukraine: Crimea- Russia's direct meddling in and support for the rebels in Eastern Ukraine- The BUK was a Russian military BUK (so either the Russian military doesn't have control over these heavy weapons (gross negligence) or have given them to the untrained militia (wrongful death/manslaughter) or the Russian military shot down the MH17 itself (manslaughter/murder).

This all makes Putin's Russia direct responsible for the 298 murders of innocent bystanders, including 198 of my fellow countrymen.

Nothing chauvinistic about my statements and good luck with suing me, see you in a Dutch court. Hint: facts can never be an insult, you will be laughed out of court

On a serious note: Russians feel they are entitled to something, the rest of the world doesn't.

Last edited by Dutchy on Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

I do not write this kind of things at work - there I am busy with other things, and if my manager sees me writing this "dribble" it will be the last thing I get to write on that job. You can be assured at that.

If you deliver the quality work for your boss as you do here, I would fire you in a heartbeat, unless that is your job of course, disinformation.

anrec80 wrote:

For MH17 - international court of justice is yet to be established.

Prefered option by the Dutch government, but blocked by your Putin, so a no go.

anrec80 wrote:

And even courts of a country with the best court system are limited in their jurisdiction to just that country. If your country wants to get a Russian citizen penalized; your investigators will need to go to Russian court and prove their case there, according to Russian legislature. Same is true about Russia. There are international agreements between most EU countries and Russia on cooperation in law enforcement, so it's doable if your investigators have a case.

Jurisdiction was with the Ukraine government, the death of 298 innocent people occurred within their territory. Gracefully it was turned over to The Netherlands, so the Dutch have full jurisdiction. So no problem there. Russian courts aren't independent from the Putin's government and the BUK came from Russian military stocks, so even it was an iron-tight case, that will be a no go, so no, it is not doable as you asserted. These people will probably be tried in absence.

anrec80 wrote:

Speaking of "not important" - what do you mean? People dedicate their life to perfecting their mastery for these Olympics, and "not that important"? Their reputation is also "not important"? That how do you draw the boundary between what's important and what's not important? Today sports is not important, tomorrow financial relationships are not important, and a bit later - individuals mentioned in some "reports" as being "not certain to be good" and can be sent to a gas chamber or into exile? In the world calling itself "democratic" court systems regularly handles large cases about reputation damage, and there is a lot of it here apparently.

What the fuck?! You go from a sporting event to gas chambers in one sentence?! I guess it is really true, Godwin's law is always followed...............

anrec80 wrote:

Speaking of "known to exist" - known to whom and how? And why in that case the results of the very first real court trial show just a tiny shadow of what they would have shown had such a scheme existed? Just don't push us "FSB" or "hole in the wall" stories.

If you are not too overworked with these insults? Notice that neither I, nor anrec80, nor anyone else, called you any agent (CIA , for example). If you don't respect us, we won't condescend to your opinion either. In the end, your rudeness towards opponents getting tired.And the same accusations of Russia in the Downing of MH17. The until proven guilty (and the trial never was) - you have no right to declare someone else's fault as proven fact. The truth is, in real life, I'd be suing you in court for libel and insult of dignity. So be careful in your chauvinistic statements. Please.

You still don't get it. If you punch someone, be sure you are prepared to take a beating and don't be a crybaby. I don't respect someone's opinions when they are in gross violation of the facts.

As for the MH17: Russia is responsible (point). The factual basis (based on official reports) for that (I accept you will never accept these facts, just as a child doesn't accept that Santa isn't real): - Russia annexing part of Ukraine: Crimea- Russia's direct meddling in and support for the rebels in Eastern Ukraine- The BUK was a Russian military BUK (so either the Russian military doesn't have control over these heavy weapons (gross negligence) or have given them to the untrained militia (wrongful death/manslaughter) or the Russian military shot down the MH17 itself (manslaughter/murder).

This all makes Putin's Russia direct responsible for the 298 murders of innocent bystanders, including 198 of my fellow countrymen.

Nothing chauvinistic about my statements and good luck with suing me, see you in a Dutch court. Hint: facts can never be an insult, you will be laughed out of court

My opinion I have already stated: Russia has nothing to do with MH 17 shot down, and you're just a fool who stubbornly go on and on, that's bad Russian. I have warned you - not with that attitude you going to get a big war. Interesting how you jumped from the legal field to talk the bullies out of the gate, huh? But the fact is just the opposite - the West has got ears for their policies, and now crying like a little girl. Russians are so bad! The fact that the Russians have asked many times, persuaded and warned that you should not stick to the sphere of our interests - was ignored, so why are you now crying when you deliberately clicked on the nose?Well, the question of the court - with behavior like yours, I probably will prefer to come to you for satisfaction in the composition of the infantry division. I think the Russian tanks on the ruins of Lisbon will look interesting. If you are unable to understand and find a peaceful solution - Russia always has its army.

My opinion I have already stated: Russia has nothing to do with MH 17 shot down, and you're just a fool who stubbornly go on and on, that's bad Russian.

You hit the nail right on his head: your opinion, I deal with facts and you only in opinions, that's the difference, my Russian friend.

Scorpius wrote:

I have warned you - not with that attitude you going to get a big war. Interesting how you jumped from the legal field to talk the bullies out of the gate, huh? But the fact is just the opposite - the West has got ears for their policies, and now crying like a little girl. Russians are so bad! The fact that the Russians have asked many times, persuaded and warned that you should not stick to the sphere of our interests - was ignored, so why are you now crying when you deliberately clicked on the nose?Well, the question of the court - with behavior like yours, I probably will prefer to come to you for satisfaction in the composition of the infantry division. I think the Russian tanks on the ruins of Lisbon will look interesting. If you are unable to understand and find a peaceful solution - Russia always has its army.

You have warned me, laughable, are you speaking on behalf of the Russian state? I don't pretend to speak for anybody, but my self.

So now you are threatening to flatten Lisboa? Well, you are about 2.000km off, may I suggest you study a map first before issuing your orders?

You are trying so hard, almost cute.

In all seriousness, within Great Brittian, there is still a feel that they are the great empire where the sun never sets (they have rules 25% of the world's population), well the world has moved on. The same can be said for the USSR/Russia, don't fall into the same trap, live not in the past, but in the present. And make Russia relevant in a positive way, not in this continuing stream of negativity. It's all up to the Russians, it is their choice.

Look guy you killed 298 innocent people with you goddamned BUK missile. There's nothing to debate - and as long as you keep spouting this same nonsensical line, your hands are as bloody as the guy who pushed the launch button. Any respect you get from me has nothing to do with you, it's respect for the venue here: A.net.

You're a murderer, so sue me.

Ok - so now it’s somehow Scorpius that fired this missile? And does Russian state still has anything to do with this? Now you look - all you have is Bellingcat reports according to which this BUK came out of some sort of “black hole” on Russian border, was hauled around all over the region, then disappeared into a similar “black hole”. That’s despite Ukraine not only having similar BUKs in their armed forces, but also having had them close to the crash site. Perhaps stop accusing and just wait until there will be at least some sort of proof?

Look guy you killed 298 innocent people with you goddamned BUK missile. There's nothing to debate - and as long as you keep spouting this same nonsensical line, your hands are as bloody as the guy who pushed the launch button. Any respect you get from me has nothing to do with you, it's respect for the venue here: A.net.

You're a murderer, so sue me.

Ok - so now it’s somehow Scorpius that fired this missile? And does Russian state still has anything to do with this? Now you look - all you have is Bellingcat reports according to which this BUK came out of some sort of “black hole” on Russian border, was hauled around all over the region, then disappeared into a similar “black hole”. That’s despite Ukraine not only having similar BUKs in their armed forces, but also having had them close to the crash site. Perhaps stop accusing and just wait until there will be at least some sort of proof?

This all makes Putin's Russia direct responsible for the 298 murders of innocent bystanders, including 198 of my fellow countrymen.

Look, we all understand your feelings towards your fellow countrymen, but nonetheless accusing to the right and to the left isn’t the right thing to do, and won’t help find and prosecute those at fault. Nobody named suspects even! And together with that, another party who had potential to do it is not only part of the investigation, but has the right of veto on pretty much anything. I don’t know what justice can you serve really this way.

I think the Russian tanks on the ruins of Lisbon will look interesting..

Russian tanks would probably not even make it into Poland, and even if they did, there wouldn´t be many Russians alive by the time France feels threatened. France has never been a friend of flexible response and has had a policy of using nukes to defend vital interests even against conventional threats.

EU countries alone have:

4x times the budget50% more active personaltwice the naval Tonnagetwice the active MBTthree times the APC/IFVtwice the artillery piecesthree times the attack helicoptersabout 50% more combat aircraft (and many more 4th and 5th Gen aircraft)

And we can bring all of it to bear, you still have to worry about China using the opportunity to get some territory and resources....

And that is just the EU, not NATO, so, please... do enlighten us how Russian tanks get to Portugal.....

This all makes Putin's Russia direct responsible for the 298 murders of innocent bystanders, including 198 of my fellow countrymen.

Look, we all understand your feelings towards your fellow countrymen, but nonetheless accusing to the right and to the left isn’t the right thing to do, and won’t help find and prosecute those at fault. Nobody named suspects even! And together with that, another party who had potential to do it is not only part of the investigation, but has the right of veto on pretty much anything. I don’t know what justice can you serve really this way.

A condescending comment like this will not help to smutch the facts, my Russian friend.

I do not accuse left or right, I say that Putin's Russia has created the circumstances which lead to the killing of 298 people. There is no denying in that, or only a fool would try to deny it or in your case to frame it in the Russian way. BUK came from Russian military stock, fact. Both will make the Russian state responsible, no matter whom actually pushed the button.

And again, misinformation on your part: - Ukraine hasn't got the right to veto pretty much anything: they have the right to veto to publish information they have provided in the first place, nothing more.

And it is just laugheble when a Russian comes up with the whole Ukraine thing being part of the investigation. So just answer one question: would you rather have they would have prosecuted? The crime was committed in their territory................

What the fuck?! You go from a sporting event to gas chambers in one sentence?! I guess it is really true, Godwin's law is always followed...............

Is it really me who goes there? Path there begins exactly with statements you make - in some circumstances a fair competitive trial and independent arbitration are not important; some “commission” or “world’s belief” will suffice. So - congratulations, you’ve almost made the first step there. Next one - what are these circumstances? Can be any really - “lack of confidence”, shape of skull, etc. And this path is nowhere as long as you think it is. How long did it take for your eastern neighbors in 1933 to establish their “people’s court” and build their first chamber? Not long at all. And these “commissions” and IOC you support so much operates in manner strikingly similar to the “people’s court”. This gives you an idea on how these decisions and their legitimacy are viewed.

What the fuck?! You go from a sporting event to gas chambers in one sentence?! I guess it is really true, Godwin's law is always followed...............

Is it really me who goes there? Path there begins exactly with statements you make - in some circumstances a fair competitive trial and independent arbitration are not important; some “commission” or “world’s belief” will suffice. So - congratulations, you’ve almost made the first step there. Next one - what are these circumstances? Can be any really - “lack of confidence”, shape of skull, etc. And this path is nowhere as long as you think it is. How long did it take for your eastern neighbors in 1933 to establish their “people’s court” and build their first chamber? Not long at all. And these “commissions” and IOC you support so much operates in manner strikingly similar to the “people’s court”. This gives you an idea on how these decisions and their legitimacy are viewed.

Why do you say I support the IOC? I do not support a corrupt (really the winter Olympics in Sochi? A summer holiday destination) private organization like that. They are just like a bit better version of FIFA (world cup to Qatar and Russia, really do we need more proof?)

Russia state-sponsored doping program.......... Do you condemn that?

Sports are considered a private affair, nothing to do with that kind of justice, so your "arguments" are complete bullocks.

BTW Do you really want to go down that path?! Your countrymen are the once whom killed the most people by far.................. Be careful what you wish for.

Russian tanks would probably not even make it into Poland, and even if they did, there wouldn´t be many Russians alive by the time France feels threatened. France has never been a friend of flexible response and has had a policy of using nukes to defend vital interests even against conventional threats.

EU countries alone have:

4x times the budget50% more active personaltwice the naval Tonnagetwice the active MBTthree times the APC/IFVtwice the artillery piecesthree times the attack helicoptersabout 50% more combat aircraft (and many more 4th and 5th Gen aircraft)

And we can bring all of it to bear, you still have to worry about China using the opportunity to get some territory and resources....

And that is just the EU, not NATO, so, please... do enlighten us how Russian tanks get to Portugal.....

best regardsThomas

Did you look how Russians fight recently? You probably realize that Russia is by a large margin military power #2 in the world, and in some important aspects is #1 even, capable of destroying any country on this globe within minutes. Do you really think USA, France or Britain will start the nuclear war over Poland or even Germany? Not necessarily.

War in 2008 in Georgia - they simply took apart Georgian military, almost no casualties. Russian officers just called their Georgian counterparts and told them to go home. And guess what - they were doing exactly that. Crimea - same story; Ukrainian forces were sitting in their bases and that was it. Not even a single shot fired. In in Ukraine in 2014 - hahaha - Ukrainian officers called their Russian counterparts themselves and said “it’s OK, we understand it all, if you ever get an order to move into Ukraine - just give us a call ahead of time; we will either sit where we are or go home”.

And now - nobody in Ukraine ever doubted that it will take Russians more than a few days to get to Western borders. Then - they won’t notice Poland, maybe notice something that they are in Germany, and there - Atlantic coast of Netherlands isn’t too far. All of it won’t take more than a few weeks; they will simply dismantle European military. Any European colonel will understand how an attempt to fight Russians will end. And from there - Portuguese will invite Russians themselves.

Russian tanks would probably not even make it into Poland, and even if they did, there wouldn´t be many Russians alive by the time France feels threatened. France has never been a friend of flexible response and has had a policy of using nukes to defend vital interests even against conventional threats.

EU countries alone have:

4x times the budget50% more active personaltwice the naval Tonnagetwice the active MBTthree times the APC/IFVtwice the artillery piecesthree times the attack helicoptersabout 50% more combat aircraft (and many more 4th and 5th Gen aircraft)

And we can bring all of it to bear, you still have to worry about China using the opportunity to get some territory and resources....

And that is just the EU, not NATO, so, please... do enlighten us how Russian tanks get to Portugal.....

best regardsThomas

Did you look how Russians fight recently? You probably realize that Russia is by a large margin military power #2 in the world, and in some important aspects is #1 even, capable of destroying any country on this globe within minutes. Do you really think USA, France or Britain will start the nuclear war over Poland or even Germany? Not necessarily.

War in 2008 in Georgia - they simply took apart Georgian military, almost no casualties. Russian officers just called their Georgian counterparts and told them to go home. And guess what - they were doing exactly that. Crimea - same story; Ukrainian forces were sitting in their bases and that was it. Not even a single shot fired. In in Ukraine in 2014 - hahaha - Ukrainian officers called their Russian counterparts themselves and said “it’s OK, we understand it all, if you ever get an order to move into Ukraine - just give us a call ahead of time; we will either sit where we are or go home”.

And now - nobody in Ukraine ever doubted that it will take Russians more than a few days to get to Western borders. Then - they won’t notice Poland, maybe notice something that they are in Germany, and there - Atlantic coast of Netherlands isn’t too far. All of it won’t take more than a few weeks; they will simply dismantle European military. Any European colonel will understand how an attempt to fight Russians will end. And from there - Portuguese will invite Russians themselves.

Laughable, would Putin's Russia really take the gamble to attack NATO? Georgia and Ukraine is another matter, but NATO? The nuclear thing goes also the other way you know.

But the main question I have, Russians on this forum are going all in about how the west is aggressive and poor old Russia is so mistreated, and yet, nobody from western countries say, let's invite Russia and I welcome the sight of Omsk in ruins with a German tank on top. Look yourself deep into the mirror, before sounding like a hypocrite again.

France - these are the ones who surrendered to the Germans almost without a fight in world war II?In fact, how popular do you think the idea of war with the Russians, for example, in Germany will be?

Bravo, you finally get it, Europe doesn't want war with Russia! So what are you so afraid of? Why go on and on about the non-existing NATO aggression. I only see Russian aggression all the time, in the world and on this forum, by you among them. So stop that, and join the nations who what to get ahead with cooperation instead of win-loose thinking.

No, in real world. Seriously. While Europeans were busy making your military a yet another institution for protecting all sorts of rights, Russians were reforming theirs, and making it best in the world at fighting a real 21st century war. And - the only one that has track record of successes when performing military operations outside of their own territory.

tommy1808 wrote:

Portugal! Kinda hard to get to Portugal without going trough France....

Well - that means we'll have to go through France and Spain. I am sure they will not mind. Historically, nobody objected to letting Russian troops through yet. Just how it happened.

Legally France and, until at least 2019, the UK are legally required to use their nukes to defend Poland. It is not a "come as you like" treaty like NATO. great, so you can probably defeat Austria ..... how did Russian weaponry fare against western Equipment during the last couple of decades again? I mean beyond target practice...

Well - in reality it is "come as you like". Neither France nor Britain are likely to risk a serious war over some Poland or Lithuania. And - in the USA legislation, NATO Article 5 "gives them right" to come for your rescue, but does not mean that this actually will happen.

France - these are the ones who surrendered to the Germans almost without a fight in world war II?In fact, how popular do you think the idea of war with the Russians, for example, in Germany will be?

Bravo, you finally get it, Europe doesn't want war with Russia! So what are you so afraid of? Why go on and on about the non-existing NATO aggression. I only see Russian aggression all the time, in the world and on this forum, by you among them. So stop that, and join the nations who what to get ahead with cooperation instead of win-loose thinking.

Ok - what are you offering to cooperate on? Europe (at least its major nations) happily took its part in destruction of statehood of Iraq, Libya, a bit later Ukraine. Syria was saved literally weeks away from yet another national tragedy. West did more then their fair share to cover up horrible war crimes in all of those regions. So this is what you offer to cooperate on? No, thank you. I don't think you'll find many nations on this planet wanting to cooperate with you on these things.

Why do you say I support the IOC? I do not support a corrupt (really the winter Olympics in Sochi? A summer holiday destination) private organization like that. They are just like a bit better version of FIFA (world cup to Qatar and Russia, really do we need more proof?)

Russia state-sponsored doping program.......... Do you condemn that?

Sports are considered a private affair, nothing to do with that kind of justice, so your "arguments" are complete bullocks.

BTW Do you really want to go down that path?! Your countrymen are the once whom killed the most people by far.................. Be careful what you wish for.

I would condemn any state-sponsored doping program. Though applied to Russia - CAS verdict that found only 11 athletes and 2 winners guilty of doping violations indicates that talks of any "state-sponsored doping scheme" in Sochi Olympics are just garbage. It's time to stop those.

Laughable, would Putin's Russia really take the gamble to attack NATO? Georgia and Ukraine is another matter, but NATO? The nuclear thing goes also the other way you know.

But the main question I have, Russians on this forum are going all in about how the west is aggressive and poor old Russia is so mistreated, and yet, nobody from western countries say, let's invite Russia and I welcome the sight of Omsk in ruins with a German tank on top. Look yourself deep into the mirror, before sounding like a hypocrite again.

Not really, this is not laughable. You must know the traditions on the European continent. Periodically, once about 100-150 years Western Europeans get united (this way or the other) and decide to crash by Russia. Each time such an endeavor did not end well for them. So it's the "united Europe" who should be worried, not Russians.

Bravo, you finally get it, Europe doesn't want war with Russia! So what are you so afraid of?

Yes, Europe does not want any wars with Russians - I agree. Historically, such wars never ended well for Europe. "Russians have been there, done that, and are not afraid. It's Europeans who should be afraid" - (C) S. Lavrov.

Well - that means we'll have to go through France and Spain. I am sure they will not mind. Historically, nobody objected to letting Russian troops through yet. Just how it happened.

You got you ass handed to you in Afghanistan. Historically Russian forces need way superior numbers to get anywhere and often failed even then.

Heck, even fighting on your own territory with manpower and material superiority you've managed to have loss rates between 1:5 and 1:10. You didn't fight any better than the French, you just had a lot more territory to trade. Still greatful for kicking Hitler where he belonged, but God did that take you long and God did that take you an awful lot of resources.

No wonder that a bunch of people with AK's and a few shoulder launched missiles could defeat the red army with relative ease.

Well - that means we'll have to go through France and Spain. I am sure they will not mind. Historically, nobody objected to letting Russian troops through yet. Just how it happened.

You got you ass handed to you in Afghanistan. Historically Russian forces need way superior numbers to get anywhere and often failed even then.

Heck, even fighting on your own territory with manpower and material superiority you've managed to have loss rates between 1:5 and 1:10. You didn't fight any better than the French, you just had a lot more territory to trade. Still greatful for kicking Hitler where he belonged, but God did that take you long and God did that take you an awful lot of resources.

No wonder that a bunch of people with AK's and a few shoulder launched missiles could defeat the red army with relative ease.

Best regardsThomas

The dumbest statement I've ever seen. Just so you know - the ratio of losses of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht during the great Patriotic war is 1.12:1, this is given the incredible losses of the period 1941-1943 years, despite the fact that we fought an army that was wounded on the tracks of their tanks vaunted European army in a matter of weeks.The issue of Afghan - Russian went out on a political decision. At the time of their stay there, the army - the territory of Afghanistan was under control-all al Qaeda and Taliban could operate only vgde something far in the mountains-despite the active support of the United States. At the same time, Soviet soldiers could move safely outside their bases. What we see now, at the end of sixteen years of stay in Afghanistan, NATO forces? They haven't even achieved half the success of the Soviet army, lol.It's only in Hollywood movies show how brave Rambo packs mowing stupid commies. In fact, there are no more effective soldiers on the planet than Russians. This even operation in Syria against ISIS demonstrated to all.