"Zionism today is the real enemy of the Jews"
Victor Kattan, The Electronic Intifada, 26 January 2005

On the eve of the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the former Nazi concentration and extermination camp, Auschwitz-Birkenau, 355 people cast a majority vote in favour of a motion that "Zionism today is the real enemy of the Jews" at a debate that took place on Tuesday 25 January at the Royal Geographical Society in London.

The debate was organized by intelligence2 (the London Forum for Live Debate) sponsored by the Evening Standard - a local London newspaper. It was chaired by Richard Lindley, a veteran television reporter for ITN and the BBC.

Speaking for the motion was Avi Shlaim, Professor of International Relations at Oxford University; Jacqueline Rose, Professor of English and Drama at Queen Mary, University of London; and Amira Hass, correspondent for Israel's Ha'aretz newspaper. Speaking against the motion was the Daily Mail columnist, Melanie Phillips; former Israeli Foreign Minister, Shlomo Ben Ami; and Raphael Israeli, Professor of Islamic, Middle Eastern and Chinese History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Avi Shlaim opened the debate in favour of the motion by saying:

"I have never questioned the legitimacy of the Zionist movement or of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders. What I reject, and reject totally, is the Zionist colonialist project beyond the 1967 borders. Israel's illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories inside the '67 borders is the root of all evil. This is the problem: occupation, occupation, occupation. Occupation distorted the natural course of mainstream Zionism. Zionism was above all, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, but it also stood for universal values like freedom, equality, socialism and peace. Post-1967 Zionism, however, both in its secular and religious varieties developed a territorial obsession: the obsession is to keep the whole of the land of Israel in the hands of the Jewish people."

Speaking against the motion, Melanie Phillips said:

"Ladies and gentleman, the Jewish people today currently face a war by terror and the latest phase in a hundred year attempt to ethnically cleanse them from their historic homeland, first in Palestine, then in Israel; the deligitimization of that homeland through systematic lies, libels, distortions and omissions; the farcical anti-Jewish hatred and prejudice emanating from the Muslim world; a Palestinian society which is indoctrinated in the cradle of religious hatred of Jews and incitement to murder them; assaults on Jews throughout Europe, the bombing of synagogues, the desecration of cemeteries; an upsurge in anti-Jewish hatred in Britain and the West You might think, ladies and gentlemen, that these are enemies enough, but according to Professor Shlaim and the rest of his panel, it is not enough. The real enemy of the Jews is not these people; the real enemy of the Jews is themselves through the creed of Zionism. We are being told that the responsibility for all this is Israel. It's Israel's fault. For two reasons: first, because the behaviour of Israel is malign and secondly because Zionism is inherently malign."

Next to speak was Rose who countered: "how can the creation of a Jewish nation on the back of the suffering, the humiliation of another people, not be dangerous for the Jews?" She then said, "And this was ethnic cleansing (referring to the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people in 1948)." She continued, "I urge you to support us; if you do, you will be sending a message to all around the world that the Jewish people did not survive attempted genocide to become the brutal oppressors of another people. Enough, no more, there is a better ethic, and there can be a better, safer, future for the Jews."

Shlomo Ben Ami, speaking alongside Philips against the motion, said: "The Holocaust should not give the Jews and Israel any moral immunity from criticism. Nor is it proper for the Israelis to conveniently dismiss all, and every attack against the reproachable policies as anti-semitism. But it is likewise indecent that Israel should be singled out for discriminatory treatment in a way that leads eventually to its deligitimization as a state. The argument that Israel is a civilized nation and more should be expected of her, than of say the Arabs, is frankly not only a form of political racism, (this time against the Arabs) but also a self-fulfilling prophecy that encourages the Arabs to persist in their dictatorial and abusive practices."

An emotional Hass then spoke about Israel's discriminatory policies in the occupied Palestinian territories and the impact of curfews, separate road systems, settlements, checkpoints, and house demolitions - all aspects of Israel's 37 year military occupation. She said she could go on, and on, and on, and that "9 hours not even 9 minutes could suffice to describe what it is to be a Jewish master." So she said: "If you want, and if you feel, and if you like to be masters; if you think that being masters fits into your Jewish values, do vote against this motion."

Raphael Israeli was last to speak and, ending on a light note, told the following joke:

"When you look at the summary of all these things, we should simply adopt the good sense of a little boy, a Jewish boy, called Jacob Goldberg who went to a Catholic school right here in Europe. The Bishop came along one day to control the content of their studies and he said, 'My children, I have here a 100 Euro bill. I will give it to any kid who will answer my question properly.' The question was, 'Who was the greatest man in history?' One of the kids says 'Napoleon'; another says 'Alexander the Great' and so on and so forth. Of course they were not the right answers. And then this kid, Jacob, says, 'I know Bishop. I know the answer.' The Bishop says, 'Yes, what is it?' Jacob said, 'I think it is Jesus Christ'. And the Bishop was elated saying, 'of course have the bill, but how could you, Jacob Goldberg, say Jesus and not Moses?' And this kid with his good sense said, 'Moses is Moses and business is business.'"

Debate Results

At the end of the session, the vote was read out aloud by Lindley. The result came as a surprise and there were gasps of astonishment in the auditorium. In an online poll only 2.5% of respondents voted in favour of the motion (with 97.2% voting against). Those who actually attended the event were asked before they took their seats how they would vote. The result was evenly split with 30% of those questioned saying they would vote for the motion and 30% saying they would vote against - 40% of those questioned beforehand had not made up their mind. The final results were as follows:

According to Theodore Herzl, often referred to as the Father of Zionism", Zionism was to create not only a Jewish state, but to create the "New Maccabees" who would brutally slaughter all their enemies and create an Israel that "did not stop at any rivers or even oceans".

Zionism is the blueprint for One World Jewish/Zionist Control and the Antichrist Government which is in effect in Israel as we speak. It's the blueprint for furthering the Lubavitch agenda of either genociding or enslaving all non Jews worldwide. Once that has been accomplished, according to the Lubavitchers, they, the Jewish people, will become the "Messiah" in their own flesh and bones, and "Rule the world with an Iron Rod".

...Max Nordau, replying to Mr. Balfour, asserted that the Jews, as well as the English, were politicians and that the British statesmen could be assured that "we want to be Great Britian's sentry on the Asiatic frontier, and if you will permit us to grow as strong as we desire we will watch the Suez Canal for you and will be a useful ally if necessary."

Good article - IMO it is very important to differentiate between politcal agendas and religious beliefs. While there is overlap for sure - it is not always the case. There are jews who denounce zionism, and christians who embrace it. It is easy - too easy - to fall into the all jews are zionists camp - which is of course not true. It would be the same as saying all american christians are neocons - which is also obviously not true. Zionism is to the jews what Nazism was to the poor Germans.

Quote:
"When you look at the summary of all these things, we should simply adopt the good sense of a little boy, a Jewish boy, called Jacob Goldberg who went to a Catholic school right here in Europe. The Bishop came along one day to control the content of their studies and he said, 'My children, I have here a 100 Euro bill. I will give it to any kid who will answer my question properly.' The question was, 'Who was the greatest man in history?' One of the kids says 'Napoleon'; another says 'Alexander the Great' and so on and so forth. Of course they were not the right answers. And then this kid, Jacob, says, 'I know Bishop. I know the answer.' The Bishop says, 'Yes, what is it?' Jacob said, 'I think it is Jesus Christ'. And the Bishop was elated saying, 'of course have the bill, but how could you, Jacob Goldberg, say Jesus and not Moses?' And this kid with his good sense said, 'Moses is Moses and business is business.'"

“'Moses is Moses and business is business.”

A very succinct synopsis of the Jew philosophy – “WIN – only winning is of value – honesty is a value only when it leads to winning.”

At the end of the session, the vote was read out aloud by Lindley. The result came as a surprise and there were gasps of astonishment in the auditorium. In an online poll only 2.5% of respondents voted in favour of the motion (with 97.2% voting against).

It is precisely because we are Jews that we demand that the Palestinian peoples be returned to their homes and properties!

Jul 12, 2003
By Rabbi Mordechi Weberman

There are those who ask us why we march with the Palestinians. Why do we raise the Palestinian flag? Why do we support the Palestinian cause? “You are Jews!” they tell us. “What are you doing?” And our response is very simple: It is precisely because we are Jews!

There are those who ask us why we march with the Palestinians. Why do we raise the Palestinian flag? Why do we support the Palestinian cause? “You are Jews!” they tell us. “What are you doing?”

And our response is very simple: It is precisely because we are Jews that we march with that we march with the Palestinians and raise their flag! It is precisely because we are Jews that we are Jews that we demand that the Palestinian peoples be returned to their homes and properties!

Yes, in our Torah we are commanded to be fair. We are called upon to pursue justice. And, what could be more unjust then the century old attempt of the Zionist movement to invade an other people’s land, to drive them out and steal their property?

The early Zionists proclaimed that they were a people without a land going to a land without a people. Innocent sounding words. But utterly and totally untrue. Palestine was a land with a people. A people that were developing a national consciousness.

We have no doubt that would Jewish refugees, have come to Palestine not with the intention of dominating, not with the intention of making a Jewish state, not with the intention of dispossessing, not with the intention of depriving the Palestinians of their basic rights, that they would have been welcomed by the Palestinians, with the same hospitality that Islamic peoples have shown Jews throughout history. And we would have lived together as Jews and Muslims lived before in Palestine in peace and harmony.

To our Islamic and Palestinian friends around the world, please hear our message:

There are Jews around the world who support your cause. And when we support your cause we do not mean some partition scheme proposed in 1947 by a UN that had no right to offer it. When we say support your cause we do not mean the cut off and cut up pieces of the West Bank offered by Barak at Camp David together with justice for less than 10 % of the refugees. We do not mean anything other than returning the entire land, including to Jerusalem to Palestinian sovereignty! At that point justice demands that the Palestinian people should decide if and how many Jews should remain in the Land. This is the only path to true reconciliation.

But we demand yet more. WE demand that in returning the land back to its rightful owners we have not yet done enough. There should be an apology to the Palestinian people which is clear and precise. Zionism did you wrong. Zionism stole your homes. Zionism stole your land. By so proclaiming we proclaim before the world that we are the people of the Torah, that our faith demands that we be honest and fair and good and kind.

We have attended hundreds of pro-Palestinian rallies over the years and everywhere we go the leaders and audience greet us with the warmth of Middle Eastern hospitality. What a lie it is to say that Palestinians in particular or Muslims in general hate Jews. You hate injustice. Not Jews.
Fear not my friends. Evil cannot long triumph. The Zionist nightmare is at its end. It is exhausted. Its latest brutalities are the death rattle of the terminally ill. We will yet both live to see the day when Jew and Palestinian will embrace in peace under the Palestinian flag in Jerusalem. And ultimately when mankind’s Redeemer will come the sufferings of the present will long be forgotten in the blessings of the future.

NOSTRADOLFMUS"Within a quarter of a century Americans will either havebecome violently antizionist or they will be devoured by Zionists"

Poll Results: Do you believe that the U.S. Government was complicit in 911, and Guilty of the Crime of 911? Please vote everyone!
Yes, I have no Doubt in my Mind, the USA is Guilty 63.3% 63.3 % (418)
Yes, I think there is High Probability of U.S. Complicity 19.2% 19.2 % (127)
No, 911 was carried out by Usama and his 19 Cave Dwelling Templar Terrorists 7.3% 7.3 % (48)
No. but I do believe the Bush Administration let it happen on purpose 6.2% 6.2 % (41)
I am new to this, and not sure, but it sure doesn't look good for America 3.9% 3.9 % (26)

Total Votes: 660

NOSTRADOLFMUS"Within a quarter of a century Americans will either havebecome violently antizionist or they will be devoured by Zionists"

Despite condemnation from many influential quarters, Lilienthal has remained in the forefront of the struggle for a balanced U.S. policy not dictated by favoritism toward Israel. He traveled over 25 times to the Middle East for firsthand investigation of events and authored several books including The Zionist Connection that was described by Foreign Affairs journal as "his culminating masterwork." He continues today, after over a half century of effort, to defend the Palestinian people and to call repeatedly for an independent State of Palestine.

UNCLE ZION

NOSTRADOLFMUS"Within a quarter of a century Americans will either havebecome violently antizionist or they will be devoured by Zionists"

You quote "Israel Lobby Watch", a notorious anti-Israel and pro-arab group in Britain which has virtually NO following save for a few self-loathers and some limey arabists. Certainly NOT a credible source. Zionism IS Judaism!!! The two are one. Believe it or not, it does not really matter to us. (Thanks for the courtesy flag though, as always, though we fight, you are a fair person!)

I'm currently reading Lilienthal's 'Zionist Connection'. Very good book. There is no doubt in my mind that Zionism is akin to any other radical extremist political agenda....gee sorta like Nazisim....Facsism....

No one group is any better than any other - get over it and join ALL of humanity. I imagine we'd see everyone at that meeting EXCEPT the zionist jews and christians.

Good on the true torah jews - they need our support and encouragement.