Post by pablo on Feb 11, 2017 15:14:34 GMT -5

The point is, Radiohead should absolutely be a 1-seed. On this board? It's a no-brainer.

I think we should have some kind of nomination process. I can trust one person to come up with a reasonably good group of 64 songs for one band that they know well, like the Radiohead and Kanye brackets. I don't think any person in the world knows all the bands well enough to come up with a group of 64 without strong personal biases affecting who gets in.

Also, a little more thought could be put into whether this should be genre-inclusive (ie should we include Wu-Tang, Beastie Boys, etc.), whether it should include solo artists, and perhaps some other criteria I'm forgetting.

At the same time, this is a particularly ridiculous version of these brackets, which are ridiculous, subjective, limited-sample experiments to begin with, so.. Just do whatever, really. If you start the voting, I doubt anyone revolts. It's supposed to be a goof.

Post by walaka on Feb 11, 2017 16:39:38 GMT -5

I just think that Madvillain's one record is up with the greatest hip hop albums of all time. Easily one of the best in the past 15 years. While I love Bon Iver to death.... I think if you are including bon iver, postal service etc why not include Madvillain. I don't think they will win at all. But come on. And if you want to replace Madvillain with an act like Gang Starr, that's understandable. But while some of those hip hop acts listed prior might have been influential a lot (not all) collective works couldn't equal the quality of that record in my opinion.

Post by pablo on Feb 11, 2017 17:54:44 GMT -5

I just think that Madvillain's one record is up with the greatest hip hop albums of all time. Easily one of the best in the past 15 years. While I love Bon Iver to death.... I think if you are including bon iver, postal service etc why not include Madvillain. I don't think they will win at all. But come on. And if you want to replace Madvillain with an act like Gang Starr, that's understandable. But while some of those hip hop acts listed prior might have been influential a lot (not all) collective works couldn't equal the quality of that record in my opinion.

Again, absolutely adore Madvillainy.. But I think more than one album is necessary to include you in the greatset bands of all time conversation. In that case, it seems like we're punishing bands that had one great album as well as other albums that weren't as great.

Sure, if you put out multiple albums and your entire output was as good as Madvillainy, you'd deserve a spot easily. But they had ONE ALBUM. The Avalanches should perhaps be included. They've had two entire albums. One is close to as good as Madvillainy. The other is pretty good but not that level. Should they be considered less good than Madvillain because they bothered to try again? Imo, no.

Also, Madvillain is not a band. Madvillain is a collaboration between a beat producer and a rapper. By that definition, you can call so many things bands. Any of the first few Wu-Tang solo albums would be bands, because it was RZA and _blank_. In that case, I'd put Liquid Swords on the same level as Madvillainy.

Post by Slack on Feb 11, 2017 18:18:23 GMT -5

I just think that Madvillain's one record is up with the greatest hip hop albums of all time. Easily one of the best in the past 15 years. While I love Bon Iver to death.... I think if you are including bon iver, postal service etc why not include Madvillain. I don't think they will win at all. But come on. And if you want to replace Madvillain with an act like Gang Starr, that's understandable. But while some of those hip hop acts listed prior might have been influential a lot (not all) collective works couldn't equal the quality of that record in my opinion.

Again, absolutely adore Madvillainy.. But I think more than one album is necessary to include you in the greatset bands of all time conversation. In that case, it seems like we're punishing bands that had one great album as well as other albums that weren't as great.

Sure, if you put out multiple albums and your entire output was as good as Madvillainy, you'd deserve a spot easily. But they had ONE ALBUM. The Avalanches should perhaps be included. They've had two entire albums. One is close to as good as Madvillainy. The other is pretty good but not that level. Should they be considered less good than Madvillain because they bothered to try again? Imo, no.

Also, Madvillain is not a band. Madvillain is a collaboration between a beat producer and a rapper. By that definition, you can call so many things bands. Any of the first few Wu-Tang solo albums would be bands, because it was RZA and _blank_. In that case, I'd put Liquid Swords on the same level as Madvillainy.

Post by walaka on Feb 11, 2017 18:33:22 GMT -5

Again, absolutely adore Madvillainy.. But I think more than one album is necessary to include you in the greatset bands of all time conversation. In that case, it seems like we're punishing bands that had one great album as well as other albums that weren't as great.

Sure, if you put out multiple albums and your entire output was as good as Madvillainy, you'd deserve a spot easily. But they had ONE ALBUM. The Avalanches should perhaps be included. They've had two entire albums. One is close to as good as Madvillainy. The other is pretty good but not that level. Should they be considered less good than Madvillain because they bothered to try again? Imo, no.

Also, Madvillain is not a band. Madvillain is a collaboration between a beat producer and a rapper. By that definition, you can call so many things bands. Any of the first few Wu-Tang solo albums would be bands, because it was RZA and _blank_. In that case, I'd put Liquid Swords on the same level as Madvillainy.

Post by pablo on Feb 11, 2017 19:10:48 GMT -5

The Sex Pistols are also wildly over-seeded. I have been thinking this, but had not addressed it yet, and for that I apologize. They should not be ahead of the Ramones or the Clash, just to name a couple bands within their own genre.

Now, having said that, the Sex Pistols are so much more influential and relevant than Madvillain.. You're going to need to do better than that.

Post by Swedish Chef on Feb 11, 2017 22:20:17 GMT -5

I'd like to know what criteria are being used to determine whether or not a band qualifies for this tournament. If you're going to include a band that made two good/great albums, followed by a bunch of garbage (e.g., Weezer), I would argue that you need to include bands that have consistently made good-to-great albums throughout their career, such as Spoon, The New Pornographers, and Belle & Sebastian. Heck, I'd argue that Vampire Weekend (3/3 on albums so far) is more deserving of a spot than Weezer.

Post by cdevaney on Feb 11, 2017 22:29:16 GMT -5

I think that it's more effective to argue who should be on the list than arguing who shouldn't. I say let's just build the damn list and then if we need to remove some, just run a poll.

There seems to be a lot of pressure to edit as we go here so we get situations where a couple of people complain about someone getting included and then they get removed.

My suggestion:

Add every name that's been mentioned so far and any new nominees (omit ones that don't qualify as "bands" if you want to wade into that quagmire), do a runoff to get rid of bands so the math works, and then group them.

Post by Pepe Silvia on Feb 11, 2017 22:33:11 GMT -5

I'd like to know what criteria are being used to determine whether or not a band qualifies for this tournament. If you're going to include a band that made two good/great albums, followed by a bunch of garbage (e.g., Weezer), I would argue that you need to include bands that have consistently made good-to-great albums throughout their career, such as Spoon, The New Pornographers, and Belle & Sebastian. Heck, I'd argue that Vampire Weekend (3/3 on albums so far) is more deserving of a spot than Weezer.

i havent had any specific criteria, i just compiled the list and have been listening to peoples suggestions as we've gone along. with that said i would be totally willing to drop Weezer for Belle & Sebastian or Spoon.