Most likely just miss communication not a big deal either way, I tell you what go into the trash in MV with a Raid DPS spec that means ES since that is the normal Raid spec. Try to top meters on any of the trash packs. Sha is misleading because those people below you could have been mind controlled and if they were you didn't get their true DPS. Maybe you never got MC'd but that doesn't prove they didn't. I find it hard to believe that if everyone is capped @ 90 in equal gear that you can out DPS any class in an AE fashion.

So yes we do have AE issues, Our AE is very very limited and tied to our single target ability no other class gets this same treatment.

First off, to the last statement there, Shammies do, to an extent, in that they only get one fire totem active at once - Magma or Searing; Enhance gets shafted on that even more, since they have to ST up to Maelstrom5 to Chain Lightning and have to use a ST ability to spread Flame Shock. Fury AoE, from what I've seen in half-assedly leveling mine, is, too, in that they have to WW to ramp up RB's cleave potential.

Now, with the changes to the talent system, talents can be shuffled almost constantly; Holy Prism, self-targeted, is perfectly adequate for trash and otherwise consistent AoE need. For bosses (in LFR; I typically don't have the opportunity to swap in 5-mans), I do change to ES for most fights. I will give you potential gear disparity, but in LFR and 5-mans, I've been soundly out-DPSed once, I believe, by a mage, across both heavy AoE and single-target; other than that, I've only seen steady competition as with that monk, a Blood DK and an Ele Sham in 5-mans, and a fellow Ret in LFR.

I will also give you that my experience is not in true prime content; hoping to rectify that as soon as possible. But I refuse to believe that we are as gimped as you seem to be suggesting in the face of what I have personally seen thus far. I was actually tanking an heroic the other day and got a Ret, a Fury, and a Fire Mage for DPS; every single pull, the Ret was top - AoE, ST. And he was comparably geared to the mage; warrior was fresh 90, I think. Could just be a case of a bad mage, sure, but I would rather choose to believe in the potential of the Retribution spec in the hands of a capable, and competent player than think that all the DPS I've seen in LFR and heroics is just that bad.

...Though I will admit, that is just as feasible.

EDIT: Want to go ahead and apologize for anything in that last paragraph that someone might take offense to; it was not my intention in any way to potentially insinuate that anyone here is bad. Was in a rush as class was ending and wanted to go ahead and get that post up before I left.

Your logic is the same the devs seem to use at times and it's poorly thought out. You should not need tier bonuses to make classes good. I can assure you the pvp bonus does not even touch the pve tier bonuses. So what about the people that pvp too? They have shit sustained and similar burst to any other choice in pvp but are viable in pve because of a band-aid tier bonus.

You could just as easily bake in the 4pc dmg bost to our sustained which helps in both pve and pvp. Meanwhile if you want to continue to address issues with band-aids, you could increase AE dmg with tier bonuses.

Anyway, I'll see you in t16 wearing t14 elite gear because the bonus is all our dmg. Nice foresight man.

Originally Posted by silverhatred

Or at least facing requirements.

I'd like this. But it really shouldn't require a target imo, just make it require a hit to generate holy power.

*edit* I too would like to see inquisitions duration increased to 45-60 seconds

Ret Dmg doesnt Sucks , the sustain dmg need a little tuning up ( especialy for PVP )
first u cant compare DPS meters in dungeons for 1 min boss fight , Retribution will top all classes
the sha picture , showing the dmg is an AOE and seems most of them just dpsing the boss if they concentrate on adds , they could outdps you many times , we already know 1 clickable button classes can do much AOE dmg ,
getting our dmg from Bonus Set is totaly wrong coz we get the sets for Bonus Dmg , not everyone here are so lucky to get 4 sets quickly and im one of them ( loot System hates me )
Inquisition for 30 s is Ok , make it last longer ( perfect ) more Tv , more Dmg

First off, to the last statement there, Shammies do, to an extent, in that they only get one fire totem active at once - Magma or Searing; Enhance gets shafted on that even more, since they have to ST up to Maelstrom5 to Chain Lightning and have to use a ST ability to spread Flame Shock. Fury AoE, from what I've seen in half-assedly leveling mine, is, too, in that they have to WW to ramp up RB's cleave potential.

Now, with the changes to the talent system, talents can be shuffled almost constantly; Holy Prism, self-targeted, is perfectly adequate for trash and otherwise consistent AoE need. For bosses (in LFR; I typically don't have the opportunity to swap in 5-mans), I do change to ES for most fights. I will give you potential gear disparity, but in LFR and 5-mans, I've been soundly out-DPSed once, I believe, by a mage, across both heavy AoE and single-target; other than that, I've only seen steady competition as with that monk, a Blood DK and an Ele Sham in 5-mans, and a fellow Ret in LFR.

I will also give you that my experience is not in true prime content; hoping to rectify that as soon as possible. But I refuse to believe that we are as gimped as you seem to be suggesting in the face of what I have personally seen thus far. I was actually tanking an heroic the other day and got a Ret, a Fury, and a Fire Mage for DPS; every single pull, the Ret was top - AoE, ST. And he was comparably geared to the mage; warrior was fresh 90, I think. Could just be a case of a bad mage, sure, but I would rather choose to believe in the potential of the Retribution spec in the hands of a capable, and competent player than think that all the DPS I've seen in LFR and heroics is just that bad.

...Though I will admit, that is just as feasible.

EDIT: Want to go ahead and apologize for anything in that last paragraph that someone might take offense to; it was not my intention in any way to potentially insinuate that anyone here is bad. Was in a rush as class was ending and wanted to go ahead and get that post up before I left.

No offense taken, However I'm only talking about AE, 5 mans and LFR aren't relevant at all. In a raiding atmosphere Ret takes a pretty big step backwards to assist with AE. If there are above 4 adds we have to swap seals and move from TV to DS and from CS to hotr for optimal DPS. If there are only 2 adds we just swap from TV to DS sure but find another class that can't AE for shit in a raid. I have a Shaman they don't suffer as much as you make it sound in fact for trash I would rather be on my Shaman at least I can be useful.

"Seriously sucks" I don't really think so, I'm always top 3 in raids, always number 1 in dungeons. Maybe if you could say what you're comparing it to? WOTLK ret? Well yeah that's a pretty big difference, but I don't really think we seriously suck, I think we're pretty average.

"Seriously sucks" I don't really think so, I'm always top 3 in raids, always number 1 in dungeons. Maybe if you could say what you're comparing it to? WOTLK ret? Well yeah that's a pretty big difference, but I don't really think we seriously suck, I think we're pretty average.

If you're top three, either the other dps suck or you don't have any of the top dps specs in your raid. Several specs can sneeze and do more damage than Ret. Our sustained isn't terrible, but there are several over-tuned specs that make us look like a joke.

This alone seems to debunk the claims that we're bad; if other classes are over-tuned, that actually means that we're fine and other will be nerfed and brought in line.

Lot of changes coming with the next patch, I see all melee attack speed abilities are changing to spell haste so maybe the days of haste and attack speed are over they weren't very useful anyway. I don't see these classes as far over-tuned as some would suggest and most aren't getting much if any nerfing at all.

Ret is strong single target and mediocre AE if that is where they want us I can live with it but I don't prefer it.

Lot of changes coming with the next patch, I see all melee attack speed abilities are changing to spell haste so maybe the days of haste and attack speed are over they weren't very useful anyway. I don't see these classes as far over-tuned as some would suggest and most aren't getting much if any nerfing at all.

Ret is strong single target and mediocre AE if that is where they want us I can live with it but I don't prefer it.

Second post of MMO-C front page. Scroll over Time Warp, Heroism, or Bloodlust; it's changed wording from speed to haste. Which is weird, since even as a speed buff it benefited SoB, where the 10% aura doesn't and never has.

Second post of MMO-C front page. Scroll over Time Warp, Heroism, or Bloodlust; it's changed wording from speed to haste. Which is weird, since even as a speed buff it benefited SoB, where the 10% aura doesn't and never has.

I'm from the days when attack speed was windfury double attacks and those I liked, This new attack speed garbage I have never been a fan of.

Second post of MMO-C front page. Scroll over Time Warp, Heroism, or Bloodlust; it's changed wording from speed to haste. Which is weird, since even as a speed buff it benefited SoB, where the 10% aura doesn't and never has.