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Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

Originally Posted by digsbe

Seems a little misleading, it appears that the church asked them not to display pictures of her and her "wife" in the church, which is a completely reasonable request for a religious institution to ask those using their space not to portray items items or things that promote what the church believes is sinful. They didn't shut down the funeral, those attending decided to move it because they refused to comply.

No it's not.

It's not reasonable. It's insulting and vial for anyone to dare have the balls to stick their nose into the private affairs of a family in that way and muss things up.

No way in hell does any of that get a flag from me.

A screaming comes across the sky.
It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.

Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

Originally Posted by VanceMack

What if the sky turned green and pooh stopped smelling like pooh?

The simple fact is the church and family disagreed on what should be allowed and the family, rather than comply, chose to take their party elsewhere. Why is this a problem? Is it just because gawdammit....they didnt get their way?

I dont think the family should have edited out people that were important to her. If they wanted to leave the pics in there then they should certainly be free to do so. Just hold the ceremony someplace else. Win win.

I think the pastor should have told them upfront he wasn't comfortable with doing them and sent them elsewhere, instead of deciding right before the ceremony that he didn't like the pictures. Perhaps it was a question of interpretation - what he feels are "too celebratory of a lesbian lifestyle" (or whatever) they may have seen as just "depicting a loving relationship".

I think the way he did it was cruel and contrary to his profession. Was it his right? Sure. But was he right to do it? No.

Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

Originally Posted by vesper

You want to cherry pick incidences and paint everyone with the same brush. You can't get more unfair than that. The true believer is in the business of forgiveness because their Lord taught them to be.

"Cherry picking?" So are you condemning the church's actions then? Because if an atheist committed a crime that I obviously condemned and you (as just an example) said that the crime represented atheistic behavior, then I could safely say you were cherry picking. But if you and several other Christians gather to defend the church's actions in this case, then it can't be said that I'm cherry picking, but that I'm taking note of a very real Christian trait when taken to fundamentalist levels.

Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

Originally Posted by digsbe

Seems a little misleading, it appears that the church asked them not to display pictures of her and her "wife" in the church, which is a completely reasonable request for a religious institution to ask those using their space not to portray items items or things that promote what the church believes is sinful. They didn't shut down the funeral, those attending decided to move it because they refused to comply.

I do think that's more of a reality and correct. I mean, if your college age daughter was in that casket, would you demand that they show the pick of her in a wet t-shirt contest on Spring Break? The parents may love that pic (hey, it's possible, lol) but I can see the church objecting.

I guess it's just that kissing a loved one is integral to who that person was, so I find their objection....objectionable. But I have not said that I didnt believe they couldnt make that decision. I just find it a sad deforming of actual Christian values.

Originally Posted by Bucky

Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.

Originally Posted by Bucky

I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.

Originally Posted by applejuicefool

A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

It's not reasonable. It's insulting and vial for anyone to dare have the balls to stick their nose into the private affairs of a family in that way and muss things up.

No way in hell does any of that get a flag from me.

It's completely reasonable for an organization that owns the building and is permitting them to use it to set standards for what goes on on their property. What's insulting is using a space, completely disrespecting and disregarding the beliefs and rules of the establishment and being unwilling to comply when a host makes a reasonable request like "please don't display this picture because we find it violates X." Just because someone died and they are mourning doesn't give them license to disrespect the property of others nor is anyone or any institution under obligation to bend their morals or rules to accommodate others that don't want to respect such things. I wouldn't expect to have my funeral in a mosque and have the imams and clerics allow my family to display crosses or images depicting Christ as the Son of God or things that they find blasphemous.

Originally Posted by Lursa

I do think that's more of a reality and correct. I mean, if your college age daughter was in that casket, would you demand that they show the pick of her in a wet t-shirt contest on Spring Break? The parents may love that pic (hey, it's possible, lol) but I can see the church objecting.

I guess it's just that kissing a loved one is integral to who that person was, so I find their objection....objectionable. But I have not said that I didnt believe they couldnt make that decision. I just find it a sad deforming of actual Christian values.

I would agree, I think from a Christian perspective, if expectations weren't given prior to the funeral that out of mercy they should have allowed it while not condoning such a lifestyle or marriage. However, as far as the request or decision of the church being unreasonable, I don't think that it was. I think they were within their rights and the fault is on those refusing to comply with the rules or requests of the host.

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates

Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

Originally Posted by Texmex

As shown by this fine Christian pastor.

Maybe you should be asking yourself why those insisted in violating the pastor's rules for the church he shepherds were not respected by the deceased's family? If they wanted the funeral in his church they had to follow his rules and they did not showing no respect for the beliefs of the pastor that they chose off the Internet because they couldn't muster up one between all the friends and family present.

Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

Yeah we all know the constitutional technicalities and blah blah blah...

In terms of the common trust and the moral fabric between every day people, what the pastor did was morally reprehensible and cruel. Too many Christians think that it's their job to carry out God's scorn. It's unfortunate that this brand of delusional thinking continues to lead to so much heartache and grief in our world.

With any luck the pastor's reputation will be ruined and he will go through his own deep reflection process about how he can be a better person for humanity -- fat chance though.

Re: Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

Originally Posted by vesper

I've read the article.
The lesbian couple evidently had no pastor or friend or members of their families who could provide a pastor to perform a Christian burial but instead found Pastor Ray's church off the Internet because it was a convenient location. That's rather odd that none of their many friends couldn't cough up the name of a minister in the area that they personally knew.

Second, anytime a pastor does a funeral for someone he does not know, if he is a good pastor, he spends several hours interviewing family and friends as he wants to get to know the deceased so that he/she can comfort those in mourning of their loved one in remembering the good of the life of the deceased. Sounds like Pastor Roy did just that and found out that the deceased was in a same sex relationship and told them that part of the deceased's life he could not highlight. And they blew him off by highlighting it anyway and the funeral was then moved from the church and held at the funeral home.

There's a lot of folks out there that want a church wedding and a Christian burial but they don't want anything else required of them in between. A lot of ministers/pastors find funerals and weddings an opportunity to preach the Gospel. I think the time has come for pastors/ministers/preachers to limit themselves to those in their congregation or a loved one associated with their congregation instead of hiring out for a fee to perform a ceremony for just anyone. Hopefully Pastor Roy has learned that lesson.

So what your saying is that no one who acts unchristian cannot have church wedding or burial? By my experience that is every "Christian" I have met. There has been and will be no human that lives up to the Christian ideal. You just choose believe one sin is more egregious than others and use that to defend cruelty. I could see if the family placed pictures of the woman having sex with her partner being a problem. That is not the case. It was showing her in her best moments as all people want to be remembered. Some of those best moments were with her chosen partner...big surprise. The minister showed a wantonness thinly veiled as religiosity simply because he does not like their lifestyle.