Comments on: Californian Presbyterians defy the churchhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/16/44557
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyTue, 26 Sep 2017 19:34:32 +0000hourly1https://wordpress.org/?v=4.7.6By: Joelhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/16/44557#comment-124029
Mon, 21 May 2012 09:29:41 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44557#comment-124029I don’t see how God’s will can be voted on. Interpretation may be fallible, but does that mean voting on interpretation get you the correct answer. Sure it MAY get you closer to the correct interpretation, but last I read, the majority of people are NOT going to be swept to heaven in judgment day.
]]>By: Ben in Oaklandhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/16/44557#comment-123813
Fri, 18 May 2012 14:14:34 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44557#comment-123813But wedo have a different agenda, Erik. We want to destroy marriage, divorce children from their biological parents, lead people into false doctrine to damn their souls, bring down western civilization, and have a mean appletini at brunch the following morning.
]]>By: Eric in Oaklandhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/16/44557#comment-123795
Fri, 18 May 2012 05:38:22 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44557#comment-123795Timothy,

Though I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, I had similar suspicions but for slightly different reasons. I have corresponded before with people involved in the Ex-gay lifestyle. Something that invariably comes up is the claim that all of the bad things they experienced and problems they had (eg. drug and alcohol abuse, meaningless sex, lack of love, lack of self respect, depression, poor health, etc.) while being out of the closet were due completely to being gay. It seemed to me that this person might have been alluding to something similar with his mention of experiences and gays seeking marriage to gain happiness.

Furthermore, his statement that gay marriage doesn’t “work” followed by saying it won’t make gays happy struck me as very odd for a gay person to say. It seems to imply that we have a different reason for or a different purpose for marrying compared to straight people.

This is the sentence that clued for me that our grumpy antagonist is not whom he is claiming to be:

” It doesnâ€™t work and isnâ€™t the thing thatâ€™s going to make gay couples happy the way activists are promising”

There is so much familiar in that statement. Well, familiar if you know nothing of gay activists and are active in conservative Christianity, that is.

It’s straight out of the sermon on Sodomy Sunday.

The phrase “the thing that’s going to make gay couples happy” relies on four premises: 1) gay couples are unhappy, 2) gay couples are longing to become happy, 3) “activists” are promising them happiness via gay marriage, and 4) there is something else which indeed IS “the thing that’s going to make” them happy.

And, of course, the preacher’s next words are “but only Jesus brings real happiness”!

Our cranky fellow here know nothing about gay people. He knows what he’s heard in the pews and imagines that because it was said in a church by a preacher that it must be true. And he’s not beyond a little deceit in the service of God.

Now I’m not saying that The Old Skooler doesn’t have same-sex attractions. He may well be part of the ex-gay movement or even some homosexual who is isolated from the community in some small town desperate to parrot what his neighbors say.

But he isn’t gay. Not in the community sense.
.

]]>By: Eric in Oaklandhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/16/44557#comment-123787
Fri, 18 May 2012 01:32:12 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44557#comment-123787” Iâ€™m gay but would never support gay marriage because I decided for myself that itâ€™s not what I can endorse with a clean conscience.”

Why is that, and what do you mean by “endorse”?

“Thatâ€™s Not hate or self-hate. It was a decision made based on my experience And my beliefs.”

What experience? I feel sure that the “beliefs” you reference are fundamentalist religious beliefs, but your mention of “experience” is puzzling. Did you have relationship problems that have soured you on commitment and trust? If so, they could not have been experiences foreign to straight people or straight relationships. We are all human after all.

” It doesnâ€™t work and isnâ€™t the thing thatâ€™s going to make gay couples happy the way activists are promising.”

Doesn’t work in what way? And if you think marriage “doesn’t work” for gay couples, do you think it DOES work for straight couples? Why? Also I don’t understand why anyone would think someone would get married to become happy. Presumably, if you are in love and have found someone worth being committed to (who feels the same about you) you would already be happy.

I’ve noticed a theme in your comments: you write primarily to rant at the ideas and beliefs of other gay people. Mostly they are ideas and beliefs that have no relationship to actual gay people but exist primarily in your imagination.

To be blunt, I don’t believe that you are gay yourself. I have access to your earliest comments – those which did not get posted – and I believe that this is something that you have added so as to “fool” us into posting your comments.

Your efforts to stir up response probably have not gone the way your expected, have they? I suspect you thought that you’d be confronted with angry hate speech, but instead people are patiently responding with logic and argument.

I suspect that as this is not your goal, you’ll soon move on. But in the meantime, please do pay attention to what our readers are saying. You might discover that the stereotype which you have been harboring is far far from reality.

]]>By: Jarredhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/16/44557#comment-123760
Thu, 17 May 2012 17:23:22 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44557#comment-123760It doesnâ€™t work and isnâ€™t the thing thatâ€™s going to make gay couples happy the way activists are promising.

Excuse me, but isn’t it the right of each and every gay couple to decide for themselves whether getting married will make them happy?

And seriously? I know of no gay activist who has promised me that I’ll magically become happy if I can just get married. Plus, you know, that would be assuming I’m not already happy. Which begs the question: What does “happiness” really mean in this context anyway?

]]>By: Regan DuCassehttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/16/44557#comment-123756
Thu, 17 May 2012 16:54:22 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44557#comment-123756@oldskooler:
The problem is that one’s religious and political affiliations ARE freely chosen and mutable ideology.

Yet, homosexuality gets treated as if it’s in the same category.
Politics and religion both have long bloody histories of wholesale human and civil rights abuses, where homosexuality does not.
Yet, it’s described to the masses as if homosexuality has had destructive influence on whole societies, instead of the other way around.

They refuse to acknowledge that homosexuality is universal to ALL human life and history, quite stable and unchanged regardless of the human culture.
Therefore, THE irrefutable evidence that it’s an innate and morally neutral human trait, not cultural choice.
The same cannot be said about politics and religion.

It’s politics and religion that get Constitutional protection, regardless of human rights abuses throughout all human history, and it’s gay people who are bit, by bit, being excluded from the protections of the same.

Religious belief, and some politics have always clashed with human advancement in those things that have made our lives the most livable and productive. Politics and religion fear losing control of the masses.
Control, they aren’t entitled to in the first place.
Gay people are victims of politics and religion, the way many other persons have been who were weaker in human hierarchy.
Especially women, and what religions believe should be artificially enforced gender roles. The detriment of which is denied and ignored.

So, it’s been a good thing to reject a great deal of the more irrational, brutal and unreasonable aspects of religious belief and enforcement. Equality and fairness in justice because a person is a HUMAN BEING first, has proven itself the best course over and over.
That is to say, the Constitution and Bill of Rights has protected us in this country better than the Bible ever did.

]]>By: Rick Loesserhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/16/44557#comment-123753
Thu, 17 May 2012 15:48:55 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44557#comment-123753Old Skooler: “… to smart for that…” but not “… too smart for that…”. Perhaps you can provide a reasoned argument against same-sex marriage. I haven’t yet come across one and would be interested in finding one. Thanks
]]>By: Old Skoolerhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/05/16/44557#comment-123748
Thu, 17 May 2012 15:15:07 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=44557#comment-123748If you want to be cool you would learn to ditch political ideology and relize that belonging to a political party is EXACTLY like being involved in a religon. The cycle of propaganda and indoctrination are EXACTELY the same. Before you look down on those who believe in God or other religions just recall that you to can succomb to the same kind of cycle if you turn into a brainless lemming like so many are today. I’m gay but would never support gay marriage because I decided for myself that it’s not what I can endorse with a clean conscience. That’s Not hate or self-hate. It was a decision made based on my experience And my beliefs. It doesn’t work and isn’t the thing that’s going to make gay couples happy the way activists are promising. According to sites like this gay people are not allowed to disagree with other gay people. That we are supposed to all drink the Democratic parties Obama flavored Kool-Aid. I’m to smart for that and if you really love yourself you learn that those who deny the ugliness among themselves are the true liars and cheats and people you need to guard yourself from. They will never admit the obvious even when it’s obvious. To tow the line of rhetoric at all costs is unwise.
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