If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by GordonGecko

The alternative was to fire Guillen. This is a better result for him. Realize that he was brought in specifically to establish a closer relationship between the Marlins and the latin american community. Instead he blew up the whole place and people are going to picket outside and boycott all their sponsors. Could not possibly have put the Marlins in a worse position

I think that is a gross exaggeration of the situation and I doubt your average Marlin fan really cares. It's just a vocal minority who wants to mix politics and baseball. You have baseball people who drive drunk, beat their wives, and rape people and they don't get suspended. Guillen expresses his admiration for a foreign leader surviving a few assassination attempts and suddenly a few people freak out. I think the Marlins are more damaged by this ridiculous overreaction than by Guillen's comments.

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by d32123

I think that is a gross exaggeration of the situation and I doubt your average Marlin fan really cares. It's just a vocal minority who wants to mix politics and baseball. You have baseball people who drive drunk, beat their wives, and rape people and they don't get suspended. Guillen expresses his admiration for a foreign leader surviving a few assassination attempts and suddenly a few people freak out. I think the Marlins are more damaged by this ridiculous overreaction than by Guillen's comments.

Vocal enough to drive enough people away from the new stadium to impact the bottom line

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by GordonGecko

Vocal enough to drive enough people away from the new stadium to impact the bottom line

I understand that this probably about the money (I doubt the Marlins ownership cares about Castro), but I think that some things are more important than the bottom line. It just sets an awful precedent with mixing politics and baseball.

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by ArodEra

As despicable as his words might be, I'd have more respect for him if he comes out and admits his admiration for Castro. Anything less would be cowardly and proof that he's a panderer and just trying to save his job. He always touted himself as an outspoken man who speaks the truth and pulls no punches. Let's see how truly honorable a man he is now. Then let the chips fall were they may. If the fanbase turns against him, they have every right.

After that whole Elian Gonzalez thing from 1999, all I can say is that in the City of Miami, there's one thing you never under any circumstance do:

Never praise Fidel Castro.

His statements seem similar to when Marge Schott seemed to praise Hitler, but then that he went too far. Some people may also wish to not say in public, statements that are obviously intended to be heard off the record, only by a few select ears.

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by Hitman23

Of course. But I also believe that using your love for freedom in the same breath as saying you're outraged by what someone said is a little bit ridiculous. Of course she has the freedom to be outraged as well. And she has the freedom to say that she is. But using it as part of your outrage doesn't work. It's hypocritical. If she wants to be in a place where people are not allowed to make openly ridiculous statements than go live in Cuba.

And as far has him being a clown, did they not know who he was before they offered him a job?

Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake."
- Natural Born Killers

Kenny Williams probably happlily drove him to O'Hare and was shocked and overjoyed to get as much as a bag of used batting practice balls in exchange. Who wants to come to work every day knowing again you will have to clean up another mess needlesslly made by this fool? What I don't understand; why is anyone shocked that a known clown has now acted like the clown he is?

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by Bugg

Kenny Williams probably happlily drove him to O'Hare and was shocked and overjoyed to get as much as a bag of used batting practice balls in exchange. Who wants to come to work every day knowing again you will have to clean up another mess needlesslly made by this fool? What I don't understand; why is anyone shocked that a known clown has now acted like the clown he is?

I also have no idea why they hired him, since he was supposedly brought in to have a Hispanic to be one of the guys amongst the large Hispanic population in south Florida.

Of all the cities in the US of A, the newly-renamed MIAMI Marlins had to be the city where Ozzie makes those comments.

Anyone of any race could've gotten by in that city w/o making such a stupid comment (look at Jack McKeon), and Ozzie cannot even get past half a week into the season before he makes a horse's arse of himself, once again.

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by d32123

I think that is a gross exaggeration of the situation and I doubt your average Marlin fan really cares. It's just a vocal minority who wants to mix politics and baseball. You have baseball people who drive drunk, beat their wives, and rape people and they don't get suspended. Guillen expresses his admiration for a foreign leader surviving a few assassination attempts and suddenly a few people freak out. I think the Marlins are more damaged by this ridiculous overreaction than by Guillen's comments.

totally agree. And there are more important things in this world than Ozzie Gulliens opinion. The fact that a senator got involved in thus at all tells me he doesn't have anything more important to do or as I've said earlier looking for something to use as a political move. Its self serving. This entire situation is absurd and I am actually stunned atthe level of attention it's getting. I'm in florida now and i just watched a half hour segment on the local fox channel about it. Is it really that big ofa deal that it deserves that? I dunno.

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

We shall see if this is a vocal minority or if it is a solid majority of fans on Friday, I think that's when their next home game is. I think the fact that the new stadium is located in Little Havanna, poor choice of location btw, will cause a significant amount of fans not to show up. So Ozzie's punishment may not be over, cause all Samoson and Loria care about is money and once the money stops coming in, because of this incident they will do something drastic. Btw as to the above poster saying that the Cubans would support Ozzie's freedom of speech since they escaped persecution, I was talking to a few friends who are cuban and I offered up the same point and they were like oh you can't comment on the story cause your not cuban. So the answer to your question is i guess they dont.

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by Bernforever51

We shall see if this is a vocal minority or if it is a solid majority of fans on Friday, I think that's when their next home game is. I think the fact that the new stadium is located in Little Havanna, poor choice of location btw, will cause a significant amount of fans not to show up. So Ozzie's punishment may not be over, cause all Samoson and Loria care about is money and once the money stops coming in, because of this incident they will do something drastic. Btw as to the above poster saying that the Cubans would support Ozzie's freedom of speech since they escaped persecution, I was talking to a few friends who are cuban and I offered up the same point and they were like oh you can't comment on the story cause your not cuban. So the answer to your question is i guess they dont.

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

You would think Cuban Americans who fled the repressive Castro regime would support the rights of Guillen to say something they don't agree with.

Aren't they just exercising their own free speech rights, though?

I think this is pretty complicated -- I'm not sure a suspension is the right thing, I abhor Selig's backing this up, and there is loads of hypocrisy to go around. But at the same time, I wasn't disappointed when Marge Schott was suspended for her Hitler comments, so I can understand the environment. Unfortunately for Guillen, I think he was really just speaking from a place of ignorance (not an uncommon practice for him), but I think there's too much sensitivity for that to be appreciated.

"Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

The idea of free speech shouldn't be "whenever someone says something I don't agree with, I should make sure they can't say it." What we're heading towards is nobody saying anything truthful or honest. Ever.

I agree with that generally, but it's also a bit unfair to say this was just something people disagree with. I think Ozzie's comment was more of ignorance than mean-spiritedness, but this also isn't some overblown political topic to these folks. Some had their families, persecuted, jailed, or worse by Castro. I don't really think there's a defensible position for supporting him, and if my family was in that position I don't think I would just let it go by.

"Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan

You would think Cuban Americans who fled the repressive Castro regime would support the rights of Guillen to say something they don't agree with.

They would, if the government was involved, but it's not in this case. Free speech doesn't give you the right to say anything you want without regard from legal consequences from private business and/or individuals that disagree with what you said.

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by Yankees1962

They would, if the government was involved, but it's not in this case. Free speech doesn't give you the right to say anything you want without regard from legal consequences from private business and/or individuals that disagree with what you said.

They can disagree with what he said, but to want to oppress him for no other reason than saying what he did goes against everything they left Cuba for.

Also, what he said has zero affect on how he manages the baseball team. Last I checked, that was what he is paid for. We keep going down this path of "yes he's free to say what he wants but the company is free to fine him for it", and that chips away at all of our freedoms. Why would we want to be slaves to what a company deems is allowable? We're going to end up with nobody ever giving their opinion out of fear of repercussions - and that sounds a lot like Communist Cuba to me.

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Re: Ozzie Guillen: Fake, Fraud, Phony

Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan

They can disagree with what he said, but to want to oppress him for no other reason than saying what he did goes against everything they left Cuba for.

Many of them were supporters of the repressive and mobbed-up regime that preceded Castro's, so to assume that they left Cuba solely out of deeply held democratic convictions is pretty dubious. One SOB (Castro) pushed out their SOB (Batista) and life in Cuba for them was about to get extremely unpleasant and dangerous. That's all.

Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan

Also, what he said has zero effect on how he manages the baseball team. Last I checked, that was what he is paid for.

Not entirely, it's pretty common knowledge that the Marlins are trying to connect with the Hispanic community in Miami (the location of the ballpark speaks to this) and it's been pretty widely reported that the hiring of Guillen was not entirely on-the-field-inspired, he was also brought in as part of that Hispanic outreach. And now he has flung the biggest possible turd into that particular punchbowl.

Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan

We keep going down this path of "yes he's free to say what he wants but the company is free to fine him for it", and that chips away at all of our freedoms. Why would we want to be slaves to what a company deems is allowable?

Because we've been "going down that path" for more than 200 years? Do you really think there has ever been a time in America when one could speak in a way that causes his employer public embarrassment and/or potential revenue loss without facing repercussions in the form of suspension or firing? Just in the little world that is the Yankees, Jake Powell, an outfielder in the 1930s, was suspended 10 games for making racial slurs in a radio interview. Billy Martin, still an excellent manager at the time, got canned in 1978 for bringing up George Steinbrenner's conviction for illegal political contributions. It's been going on as long as the country has. Because the First Amendment protects life and liberty; it does not protect your job. Sorry, it just doesn't.

Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan

We're going to end up with nobody ever giving their opinion out of fear of repercussions - and that sounds a lot like Communist Cuba to me.

Castro's victims have been imprisoned and worse for speaking out. I don't think Ozzie is in any such jeopardy. He publicly offended his employer's target demographic and now he's paying a (small) price for it. If he'd made those comments in New York he'd be fine. But he's not in New York.