Style is a big factor. And part of that style is that Sylvanas is clever and manipulative, whereas Garrosh appears brutish, reckless and stupid. Especially since he appears to have taken no lessons from his Father's story.

"If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

While this thread is more or less concluded and 80% of the posts are just "CUZ SHE IS HOT AND HAS BOOBZ", I'll still post.

Technically speaking, Sylvanas is much worse than Garrosh in her own ways. She doesn't care about her people at all and only uses them "as protection" so she herself can live forever and never go off to the hell/purgatory she'll go to for trying to take her own life (lol spoilers).

Garrosh might be very racist and a power hungry idiot, but he still has a love for his people (even if it's a VERY tough kind of love) and is doing what he's doing to prove the Hellscream name and honor, or even surpass his father. I feel he wants to control the Sha so he can express that Orcs can be in control of their own destiny, and they're not just overwhelmed by more powerful creatures and turned to be slaves.

This message is hammered in further by him abandoning Gorehowl. It's symbolism to express him, in his own way, "surpassing" Grom and the other orcs, taking hold of a higher power instead of being enslaved to it, which makes Garrosh a fairly interesting character, all things considered and I like what they're doing with him (though the story telling itself is a little weak).

I think people hate Garrosh just because they see him as 'da big bad evil warman that all the other npcs hate', and like Sylvanas because the other NPCs don't have a direct vendetta against her and she isn't being made into the focal badguy of the expansion. Her tits are a fairly distant second to this, despite what everyone is saying.

Well, I'm not hating Garrosh, because he's not worth of hate. Stupid mindless brute with no motives beside "ME CRUSH ARRGH!". I hate Blizzard for shifting lore into cartoonish villain 5 y.o. shit. Remember WoTLK? Arthas was scheming a lot, subtly gaining assistances from various Northrend factions and silently gathering resources to wage his war. That is what a true bad hero must do. Now look what Garrosh the Idiot does and compare it. He's talking about pride all the time - but what pride, actually? Assassination of Cairne Bloodhoof for sure was a very "prideful" act. Or maybe its the destruction of Theramore? Yeah, another prideful act. Stupid spoiled kid, with brains similar to ones of a teaspoon. In fact, I'm ashamed that we have to waste our precious heroes' time to get rid of such a moron. We, who fought and defeated Old gods, and even Sargeras himself... what a waste.
Sylvanas, from the other side, is very subtle and accurate. She is scheming something - and noone really knows what exactly. Just like LK did. I won't be surprised when actually something involving her shoots in a next expansion. Or maybe while a new Warchief will be elected. Whatever she does, she owes our respect for her style. Oh, and she's hot, of course

Shoulod she ever become Warchief there is no choice, but to put her down, since she would put garrosh to shame, but she leads only a single faction and as such is hardly a threat to the world.

After Wrath and Cataclysm though I really just expected them to push a storyline with her doing essentially what Garrosh is doing, growing wildly unstable and becoming a threat to everyone. Garrosh may be the leader of the Horde, but at this point it's really just the orcs like Sylvanas and the undead.

People like her because she's hot ruthless elven woman, and both men and women are stupid enough to always fall to that "hot and dangerous" types.

And Garrosh.. what's there to like? Did you see the trailer? I like girls with daddy issues, but guys with daddy issues make me vomit. Garrosh is no orc, he's an ogre. Anorexic one, so he looks like an orc.

Originally Posted by Alenarien

The boy is either a master troll, professional pain in the ass, or a dung-tossing primate. Then again, why compromise? All three needn't be mutually exclusive, and exist together in harmony among people I stumble across every day.

He gave Cairne the option to back down, but instead Cairne accepted to battle to the death terms. Garrosh had every right to give that option. Cairne was challenging him for leadership over the Horde.

cairne was fighting for what he thought was right. garrosh could give him 100 ways to give up, and he wouldn't take it, because he believed garrosh shouldn't lead the horde.

in the end, he was right. his belief was fueled by wrong leads, but garrosh should never had been left as the warchief. had cairne won the duel, the terrible events in theramore, gilneas and pandaria would have never happened.

cairne was fighting for what he thought was right. garrosh could give him 100 ways to give up, and he wouldn't take it, because he believed garrosh shouldn't lead the horde.

in the end, he was right. his belief was fueled by wrong leads, but garrosh should never had been left as the warchief. had cairne won the duel, the terrible events in theramore, gilneas and pandaria would have never happened.

And Garrosh was fighting for what he believed was right. Him being the leader of the Horde. Garrosh hasn't had any regrets so far because everything he's done has been "right" according to him.

For the most part, I hate Garrosh and almost everything he's done, but that was the one event where I back up Garrosh. You don't just turn against your king and try to usurp his throne and expect everything to be peachy. Sure, he went a bit far, but Cairne brought that on himself by accepting those terms.

Do you really think Cairne wouldn't have killed Garrosh if he had the opportunity during their duel to the death? By killing Garrosh, he would be able to ensure peace so of course he would have, otherwise he wouldn't have accepted.

he was there in beyond the dark portal, when horde forces escaping the alliance came upon nagrand and found the greatmother, and a younger garroshthere, who was sick with a disease called the red pox, throwing up blood and begging to know what became of his father. The other orcs where so disgusted by how weak he was, they spat in the mag'hars faces, saying (ironicly since garrosh says it now) that they are not orcs, and left nagrand with garrosh still pining for his father.

So yes, he has been in the lore before the events of wc3.

That book was released on 2008 June 24, after TBC was released... We're talking buildup of characters. Garrosh being retconned into the lore after the fact doesn't count as him being there for longer than the characters in WC3 who were introduced 6 years earlier. Garrosh wasn't even mentioned in Rise of the Horde (2006) and that novel was all about the orcs during their corruption with lots of appearances from Grom.

Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-22 at 06:13 PM.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

And Garrosh was fighting for what he believed was right. Him being the leader of the Horde. Garrosh hasn't had any regrets so far because everything he's done has been "right" according to him.

For the most part, I hate Garrosh and almost everything he's done, but that was the one event where I back up Garrosh. You don't just turn against your king and try to usurp his throne and expect everything to be peachy. Sure, he went a bit far, but Cairne brought that on himself by accepting those terms.

Do you really think Cairne wouldn't have killed Garrosh if he had the opportunity during their duel to the death? By killing Garrosh, he would be able to ensure peace so of course he would have, otherwise he wouldn't have accepted.

Absolutely not. If you read The Shattering it is because he believed Garrosh to be involved with the slaughter of some of his people. Also, Cairne was WRECKING Garrosh in that fight until the point where he got nicked. If Garrosh hadn't have been belligerent in the first place the miscommunication would've never happened and they both would've realized it was the Grimtotem. Cairne didn't do anything wrong. Still find it funny that Garrosh got his ass handed to him by a 100 year old tauren.

After Wrath and Cataclysm though I really just expected them to push a storyline with her doing essentially what Garrosh is doing, growing wildly unstable and becoming a threat to everyone. Garrosh may be the leader of the Horde, but at this point it's really just the orcs like Sylvanas and the undead.

She is becoming a threat to everyone but she is doing it much more slowly; concentrating her efforts around lordaeron. She is just not as bombastic as Garrosh, and does not draw attention to the atrocities she commits.

it's clever and insidious.

- - - Updated - - -

i hate to be the one to invoke Godwin's Law, but if Garrosh is like Hitler (bombastic, overreaching, committing bald-face atrocities) then Sylvanas is like Stalin (inexorable, evasive, playing multiple sides, obfuscatory)

She is just not as bombastic as Garrosh, and does not draw attention to the atrocities she commits.

Nah I think it's just the Alliance being portrayed as dumb again. She has in no way been subtle about her usage of the Plague or the Val'kyr. In fact she's been the total opposite and has been using them as the vanguard and used as a shock and awe tactic. She has been using both whenever she can and in every engagement she can.

I guess it's just cause Garrosh is Warchief and Sylvanas isn't. I guess the real test of all of this will be what happens to her after 5.4.

Absolutely not. If you read The Shattering it is because he believed Garrosh to be involved with the slaughter of some of his people. Also, Cairne was WRECKING Garrosh in that fight until the point where he got nicked. If Garrosh hadn't have been belligerent in the first place the miscommunication would've never happened and they both would've realized it was the Grimtotem. Cairne didn't do anything wrong. Still find it funny that Garrosh got his ass handed to him by a 100 year old tauren.

Oh, I know that Cairne was getting the upperhand. But I'm saying that Garrosh wasn't necessarily in the wrong.

Imagine that you're the king and one of your council members steps up to try to take your spot. That alone is punishable by death, but you tell him that if he wanted it bad enough, that you would duel him to the death. Now imagine your council member accepting those terms. You killing him wouldn't be wrong. For all you know, he will kill you if given the chance. I think the main issue lies with that people compare him to Thrall who was a carebear in comparison.

What's wrong is completely subjective. Cairne had his reasons for accepting the duel to the death and Garrosh had his.

cairne was fighting for what he thought was right. garrosh could give him 100 ways to give up, and he wouldn't take it, because he believed garrosh shouldn't lead the horde.

in the end, he was right. his belief was fueled by wrong leads, but garrosh should never had been left as the warchief. had cairne won the duel, the terrible events in theramore, gilneas and pandaria would have never happened.

I don't think you get why Cairne's death was Tragic, and still plays into the Story now, Garrosh had plenty of disagreements with Cairne, even coming back home from Northrend, but he respected Cairne, he thought Cairne's ideaology might be a little outdated, but he listened, because Cairne and the Tauren gave it their all when it came to supporting the Horde. Unlike Lor'themar who was basically Blackmailed into sending forces to Northrend, Vol'jin, who was to preoccupied with retaking the Echo Isles during the Scourgewar, and Sylvanas, who couldn't keep a leash on her own people. Cairne had none of those flaws, he might be a little too soft for Garrosh's taste, but overall he was still respected. Cairne was chosen by Thrall to be one of Garrosh's advisors, and quite honestly, was pretty much the ONLY advisor that Garrosh would actually listen to, but what did he do? He hears of an attack on the Night Elves and blames Garrosh, (Which doesn't make sense honestly, Garrosh himself says that if he attacked the Night Elves, he would shout it from the rooftops, that statement being true, and the issue of Twilight Cultists in Orgrimmar should've been enough to trigger alarm from Cairne.) Not only does he blame Garrosh, but he accuses him of Cowardice, strikes him across the face, makes a comment about his father, he basically hits every nerve there was to hit with Garrosh. Cairne failed in his duty, he didn't guide Garrosh, he only served to fuel Garrosh's ego, and surrender the only meaningful voice of opposition to Hellscream.