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If it was just me with a lightsaber? Definitely. I have a tendancy to throw things and catch them, so at some point it'd land pointing at me and activate.

If I was a Jedi or Sith? Heck no, I'd be either a monk with a paradoxical code (form no attachments but here's a father like figure for you to bond with, Padawan.) Or some angsty emo murder-hobo. Trained in one case but maybe not on the latter.

This is where I'd put a gif of Asajj Ventress saying "I am Sith." From the 2D clone wars miniseries IF I COULD FIND ONE!

Which, by the way, is why the Star Wars Technical Commentaries forums decided that Lightsabres must be an application of stressed and tuned Force Fields, instead of 'Plasma'. This was back in the 90s. But, heck, everybody has to argue their opinion again - constantly.

Not having seen the video on lightsabers vs Wolverine. If you wish to keep both universes lore intact then a lightsaber can cut through adamantium slowly. Meaning wolvers could fight a Jedi though not for a prolonged period. Which keeps the "Adamantium is indestructible except in some situations" and the "Lightsaber can cut through anything."

I think people forget that those who use lightsabers are also attuned to the force. They're not just some everyday normal person. :p

They don't have to be though. Han used a lightsaber briefly in Empire, the leader of the Death Watch (clone wars) used the dark saber (a type of lightsaber), General Grievous used four to five of them at once and wasn't force sensitive at all, oh and Fynn from Force Awakens used one for a time though unsure if he's force sensitive or not.

Being a force user definitely helps with lightsabers (especially when it comes to deflecting blaster fire) but isn't a requirement. I mean it is, when you get down to it, just a really dangerous stick.

Han used it as a knife, not to fight with. Grievous was a cyborg. Flynn fought with it, yes, but not on the level of what a Jedi can be seen doing. It's getting fancy, where I would think the missing limbs would come from.

Sabine from Rebels uses the dark saber no problem, not a Jedi or force user. It's just a dangerous stick. Anyone trained in any kind of fighting could probably use it without losing limbs (provided they don't do dumb things with it like I would) unless fighting a force user who seriously wanted you to have less limbs.

But it's like any other weapon. How many self-inflicted sword wounds do people get when learning to use a sword? Granted it's a bit different as wielding a lightsaber is like wielding a flashlight, but still.

A lightsaber is a TOOL ... a very technological tool designed to be a weapon. It is basically a "cutting blade" type of weapon. ANYBODY can use that kind of tool, given the manipulators (hands) needed to do so.

Now, using it SKILLFULLY is an entirely different question.

With most "mundane" weapons, like steel swords and knives and so on, training with such weapons will typically wind up causing a variety of what amount to "training scars" ... which are essentially injuries caused when training with the weapon, sourced to either being self-inflicted or a sparring partner. Basic notion here is that NO ONE is "perfect" and that mishaps will occur, no matter how stringent the safety regimen is. These things happen. Everyone "fumbles" at some point (even Jackie Chan, just watch outtake reels from his movies). The problem with a lightsaber is that these incidental goofs don't inflict (mere) scars ... they result in amputations. In that sense, lightsabers are kinda sorta "zero tolerance for error" type weapons, which in turn demands a RIDICULOUS level of skill (and/or cheating via The Force) to ensure that fumbles don't happen simply because every time you fumble, you're liable to lose a body part.

It's kinda like that (over a century) old joke about knowing who was a really good railroad worker ... by holding up your hands to show all your fingers and just simply stating ... "TEN."
o.O
And why would that be impressive? Well, in the OLD days, working on the railroads was almost unbelievably (by modern standards) dangerous. Most men working the railroad tended to lose fingers, if not entire hands, to the crushing forces involved when tons and tons of steel came together in the operation of coupling cars. Basically these things ...

... and that's because, for a long time, the couplings between railroad cars weren't this kind of nice "safety designed" steel that did this job automatically. No, for a long time cars needed to get coupled up BY HAND, meaning that someone needed to stick their hand(s) in between moving rolling stock (try not to get your fingers/hand(s) crushed in the process!) in order to link up trains of railroad cars.

Yeah.

There were a LOT of amputations of digits, hands and limbs (as well as loss of life) as a result of this. Sure, it didn't happen every single time ... but it DID happen ... which meant the longer you did the work, the more chances you had to "roll a fumble" and lose body parts.

And using a lightsaber is LIKE THAT. All it takes is one mistake ... ONCE ... and you're missing body parts. There simply are no good results of a "fumble roll" with a lightsaber. Go Darwin Go.

—

Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

I think lightsabers deactivate when they're let go... Unless force thrown? Making them a little less dangerous. I think you might need to keep you finger/hand/manipulator on the button to keep the blade out. This is only backed up by any time a lightsaber has been dropped the blade goes away in the Starwars media I've seen. Though a force user could keep the button pressed with the force allowing them to throw/manipulate lightsabers with the blades out.

The standard single bladed lightsaber would probably be hard enough for its user to use. But the weapon I constantly lose my "suspension of disbelief" over is Kylo Ren's saber with the "crossguard" blade thingies.

Even in this pic you can see those little crossguard gizmos could just as easily poke Kylo as they could poke Rey.

Now while this lightsaber officially "looks cool" I would think anyone actually trying to use this thing would constantly be cutting their own hands off at the wrists as this thing swings around. The amount of effort you'd have to use to make sure the crossguard parts didn't end up in the wrong place at the wrong time just makes all my "logic sensors" buzz. I know people will just say "Well Kylo is just so super-awesome with the Force that he never accidentally shifts his grip around enough to worry about that" but still it just seems like those little bastards would be far more dangerous to the user than to any potential opponent.

Then of course there's also the basic question of the functionality of the crossguard of this weapon "as" a crossguard. I suspect the following pic would be the likely outcome of trying to test that theory:

I wish there was less to the cross-guard, like if it was mostly lightsaber I'd have less problems with it. But since... After the originals all badguys need to have a gimmick lightsaber or at least have one for no reason in Palpatine's case.

Yeah, in a supers setting setting I would be fine with Kylo's saber, but in star wars? It just seems too unrealistic. Like there where definatly other lightsabre designs they could use, like what about the lightsabre version of a greatsword? like that could work...

Well, Star Wars is a very different fantasy than supers, with it being effectively a medieval fantasy in space, it's a lot harder to get away with a weird weapon than in a supers world. I mean it may be fantastical but it is supposed to have more realism than that.

Have we seen the cross guard used defensively yet? I can't remember seeing it used in that manner. If there is a slow motion scene where the cross guard 'catches' a strike I'd be interested to see it.
The pseudo explanations I have heard so far are that the cross guard is just a shunt for excess power.

Now we just need to see a Jedi going around with Lightsaber Wolverine Claws :p

Well there's this...

And this doofus

Sigh. What's wrong with just a regular saber? I mean I could get it if you're of a race with no hands or special hands so you need a special saber. Though I'm still of the opinion that Jedi and Sith don't -NEED- a lightsaber. Yoda certainly doesn't seem like he'd ever have one (at least in the originals)

I love how this guy even has "saber spikes" on his knees as if just simply kneeing someone in the balls wouldn't be enough. This guy not only knees you in the balls but castrates you at the same time. ;)

As far as whether Jedi/Sith need to use light sabers or not goes I figure it would depend on how much mastery you have over the Force. It makes sense that people who have "mastered" the Force might not need them because they could zap people with lightning bolts or whatever but if you're young/new with the Force you might not have enough control over it to be able to do that yet thus you use saber weapons.

Well those are fine for me because there's no way to really harm yourself accidentally with them like kylo's saber, none of them point in a direction that can be harmful to the user, and you can clearly see that all the blades are meant to be used. Kylo's saber, on the other hand has two sabre spikes that serve no purpose and would do more damage to the user than the enemy. Heck even darth maul's dual lightsabre makes more sense because can clearly see him using both the blades and it serves it's purpose as the lightsabre equivalent of a quarter staff, but Kylo's doesn't, and there are so many options that they could have gone with, like they could have the hilt longer and made a lightsabre katana, they could have made it bigger and had a lightsabre greatsabre, heck they could have made a ball covered in lightsabre blades that meant to be floated around with the force rather than used in the hand and I wouldn't have cared, but the crossguard serves no purpose.

Kylo’s saber hilt are supposed to be vents because his saber isn’t constructed well.
There are numerous videos showing how with adjustment, a skilled swordsman would not inadvertsntly harm theirself with such a weapon.

—

I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic - Tech Team.

yeah... I mean at this point it's more of nitpick. The crosguard doesn't take me out of the experience that much to make me hate the movie. The movies are still a fun ride even if the bad guys weapon is stupid

Yeah, they're some sort of vents (called Quillons) and the reason there's an actual crossbar part is apparently to protect the wielders hands from the vented energy. It's not designed to be a real crossbar at all.

The crystal of Kylo's saber is cracked which is why it requires the vents, apparently.

They just wanted it to look cool though, all this stuff is just the in universe justifications for it.

Just went to see Episode VIII and (No Spoilers) there are some really good close up shots showing the difference in the blade confinement of Anakin Skywalkers (old) white blade lightsaber and Kylo Ren's "poorly constructed" one. Suffice it to say, that when looked at up close, the Anakin Skywalker weapon has a very CLEAN plasma blade with an extremely symmetrical cylinder of light/beam coming out of it. In other words, it's well constructed. Kylo Ren's looks less like a beam of light and more like a flamethrower. The plasma being emitted from Kylo's weapon just looks sloppy and chaotic and has patterns of waves resonating along the edges of ALL of the "blades" making it very clear that this is NOT a "cleanly" constructed weapon. In essence, there's a lot of "chatter" noise in how the plasma blade is shaped and propagated, rather than being tightly confined.

Don't get me wrong, Kylo's lightsaber STILL WORKS just fine ... but it isn't as ... refined ... in its engineering as either of Anakin's weapons (the white one or the pink one), Obi-wan's (white one), Luke's (green one), or indeed ANY of the other lightsabers made by and used by other Jedi/Sith within the movie franchise. I can easily accept that Kylo keeps his "flame-like" lightsaber simply for the intimidation value that its chaotic blade produces, rather than for any other combat relevant advantage. After all, if the plasma blade being used is that chaotic ... what must the user be like?

—

Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

Well I wouldn't say that it clearly looks like a poorly built blade, you have to look at it a lot more closely than what's expected of a typical viewer to see it. You can do that if your just leaving a clue and it's supposed to be revealed later on that the blade isn't as well built as it was initially shown, but that fact was revealed elsewhere, so from an average audience member's point of view it's still a stupid looking weapon that isn't that useful.

The lightsabre is made of space magic... yeah I know it's called "the Force" but it's really just a stand in for magic, the jedi are space wizards who wield laser swords made of space magic and powered by magic crystals because it's a medieval fantasy in space. Their not plasma, their not force fields and their not lasers. Their magic.

There are numerous videos showing how with adjustment, a skilled swordsman would not inadvertsntly harm theirself with such a weapon.

I might agree that a real life swordsperson wielding a real life sword with a standard metallic crossguard would probably not hurt themselves directly with the crossguard itself. But even I've swung enough of these types of swords IRL to know that my hand/wrists inadvertently TOUCH those crossguards often enough that had they been made out of "lightsaber material" instead of just simple metal I would have lost bits of my hands/wrists very easily.

Again Kylo's lightsaber is "cool looking" no matter the reason those crossguard "vents" exist story-wise. But if such a sword existed in real life I highly doubt any sane person would acutally use it due to its extreme potential to slice into the users hands/wrists if even by accident. Let's just say if I had a choice I would use a lightsaber designed in almost ANY other way than this.

Redlynne wrote:

Just went to see Episode VIII and (No Spoilers) there are some really good close up shots showing the difference in the blade confinement of Anakin Skywalkers (old) white blade lightsaber and Kylo Ren's "poorly constructed" one.

Again no real spoilers but there's one quick close-up of Kylo's saber "handle" in the new movie that shows a red wire loosely attached along the outside of the handle almost as if he used a bunch of disjoint spare erector-set parts to slap it together. Clearly they wanted to give the impression of it being an amateurish, childish attempt to have a decent weapon. I still think the net effect of the "crossguard vents" makes this saber essentially unsuitable as a "realistic" weapon, but again I'll admit it does "look cool" regardless.

Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

Brand X is referring to Luke saying it in The Last Jedi

Yes, at one point Luke (rather sarcastically) uses the slang term "laser sword" in the new movie.

Ah, I just watched that last night and don't remember that part. But there was a lot in that movie.

**** SPOILER ALERT for The Last Jedi ****

It was sort of near the beginning where Rey is first trying to talk Luke into leaving the island to come help the Resistance. He basically retorts along the lines of, "You want me to stand alone against the entire First Order with just my laser sword?" Like I said he's clearly using the term "laser sword" in a sarcastically dismissive way.

I still firmly believe that the long drawn out (since the last movie) moment of Rey handing over the lightsaber to Luke is incomplete without a big yellow (bouncy!) Quest Question Mark over Luke's head, indicating that Rey needs to turn over the quest item (the Anakin weapon) to Luke Skywalker.

And of course, Luke's response to being handed the weapon was PERFECT ...

—

Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

And of course, Luke's response to being handed the weapon was PERFECT ...

**** SPOILER ALERT for The Last Jedi ****

Compared to how they left that climactic cliffhanger in the last movie Luke's response was certainly "unexpected" at the very least. In one second the movie established exactly how Luke was going react to being tracked down on his secret little island and that he was going to have his own quirky personality as a "Jedi Master" just like Yoda did when Luke came to bother him in his swamp.

Lothic, a skilled swordsman wouldn’t hit themselves with their own crossguard withnsimemminor adjustment to their form. Atain, there are videos have been done to show it is possible. One man even put fresh paint on his crossguard to show it never touches his wrist, even in a duel. And that is with a weapon with helft and weight while a light saber is very light - practically weightless.

I’ve never accepted the self-harm argument. In particular, he has had some amount in training with 2 masters in this space-magic thing called the force through which he is supossedly uses to enhance his ability to weild the weapon in question. And when it comes if “magic use” all of our “rules” go out the door.

—

I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic - Tech Team.

Lothic, a skilled swordsman wouldn’t hit themselves with their own crossguard withnsimemminor adjustment to their form. Atain, there are videos have been done to show it is possible. One man even put fresh paint on his crossguard to show it never touches his wrist, even in a duel. And that is with a weapon with helft and weight while a light saber is very light - practically weightless.

I’ve never accepted the self-harm argument. In particular, he has had some amount in training with 2 masters in this space-magic thing called the force through which he is supossedly uses to enhance his ability to weild the weapon in question. And when it comes if “magic use” all of our “rules” go out the door.

I never said that a person could not possibly wield such a weapon. I'm simply making the point that having such a "sword" with a crossguard made out of a material that would cut your hands off like a hot knife through butter is ABSOLUTELY STUPID in terms of practicality and feasibility of user safety. I'm quite sure any of those guys on your videos "could" use Kylo's saber without harm in practice but I'm also quite sure if they had a CHOICE in the matter they would NEVER take such a weapon into a real fight. Real fights are "messy" and uncontrolled - would you risk using Kylo's saber even if you thought you knew what you were doing? Heck if I was fighting Kylo I would maneuver myself to make sure Kylo would "accidentally" stab himself with those stupid things - any swordsperson worth their salt would target that as his main weakness.

As the great Han Solo himself said "Good against remotes is one thing; good against a living is something else". I don't know about you but I simply like my hands connected to their wrists...

There's quite a bit of saber hilt on the cross-guard parts, isn't there?

Like, I don't think you could stab your saber arm with it very easily. I think you'd have to really try to hurt yourself with it like that.

Now your legs and other extremities are another matter all together.

I simply believe there are countless ways these "crossguards" would be far more dangerous to the user than to anyone the user was fighting. *shrugs*

And explain to me how these things would actually serve AS crossguards. Wouldn't a lightsaber blade sliding down Kylo's blade simply cut right through the "metal" parts and slice his hand(s) into multiple pieces?

At least some people have thought about these problems and come up with some more workable solutions:

I don't know if the energy vented from those could stop a lightsaber anyway. It's vented energy, it can hurt but I'm unsure if it has the full strength of a lightsaber blade in them.

Wouldn't a lightsaber blade sliding down the side of a regular lightsaber also cut people's hands off? The addition of a cross-guard doesn't make this problem worse.

With the thumbs up picture, again you'd need to be either dumb as bricks or wilfully trying to injure yourself.

I have a couple of nerf swords at home and the total amount of times I've hit myself with their cross-guard is probably around zero.

The "someone can just cut the hilt" argument applies to all lightsabers and the counter is "try not to have that happen" the addition of a cross-guard doesn't make this more likely. In fact if the vented energy can hold up to a lightsaber it offers just a little bit more protection for the hilt. As instead of having to move the whole blade to block a strike you just have to move it a little. (No idea what a good hit to that part of a weapon would do to the wielder's wrist)

I don't know if the energy vented from those could stop a lightsaber anyway. It's vented energy, it can hurt but I'm unsure if it has the full strength of a lightsaber blade in them.

Yeah... the whole "vented energy" explanation sounds like another kludge to explain away a problematic "problem" just like when Lucas had to come up with a way a parsec could be considered a unit of time instead of a unit of length. ;)

Project_Hero wrote:

Wouldn't a lightsaber blade sliding down the side of a regular lightsaber also cut people's hands off? The addition of a cross-guard doesn't make this problem worse.

Sure but if you're going to pretend to put something that "looks" like a crossguard on a lightsaber why not have it realistically WORK as a crossguard?

Project_Hero wrote:

I have a couple of nerf swords at home and the total amount of times I've hit myself with their cross-guard is probably around zero.

Right... but the one time you accidentally do it your "nerf" sword is likely going to hurt you a lot less than whatever's going on with Kylo's saber.

Project_Hero wrote:

The "someone can just cut the hilt" argument applies to all lightsabers and the counter is "try not to have that happen" the addition of a cross-guard doesn't make this more likely. In fact if the vented energy can hold up to a lightsaber it offers just a little bit more protection for the hilt. As instead of having to move the whole blade to block a strike you just have to move it a little. (No idea what a good hit to that part of a weapon would do to the wielder's wrist)

Obvisouly no one using a standard lightsaber is ever going to willing let another saber blade slide down like that. People using real life katanas don't typically let an opponent's blade do that. But again if you're going to pretend to put a crossguard on a lightsaber it kind of opens you up for dealing with exactly how that could (or couldn't) work.

Lothic, a skilled swordsman wouldn’t hit themselves with their own crossguard withnsimemminor adjustment to their form. Atain, there are videos have been done to show it is possible. One man even put fresh paint on his crossguard to show it never touches his wrist, even in a duel. And that is with a weapon with helft and weight while a light saber is very light - practically weightless.

I’ve never accepted the self-harm argument. In particular, he has had some amount in training with 2 masters in this space-magic thing called the force through which he is supossedly uses to enhance his ability to weild the weapon in question. And when it comes if “magic use” all of our “rules” go out the door.

yes, but the average movie goer hasn't really seen those videos, and "It's magic we don't have to explain it" is really bad story writing, yes I get that the Force is pretty much space magic, but well the thing with writing a fantasy like this is that, magic has to have well explained rules to it. Sure it needs that same mystical air to it, but we have to atleast somewhat know what it can and can't do. Going into the movie, I had no idea that it was possible not to touch the crossguard during combat, and as such the fact that the crossguard is possible wasn't well set up for a lot of people who don't know the same thing. It's a matter of showing it rather than telling me later on.

Lothic, a skilled swordsman wouldn’t hit themselves with their own crossguard withnsimemminor adjustment to their form. Atain, there are videos have been done to show it is possible. One man even put fresh paint on his crossguard to show it never touches his wrist, even in a duel. And that is with a weapon with helft and weight while a light saber is very light - practically weightless.

I’ve never accepted the self-harm argument. In particular, he has had some amount in training with 2 masters in this space-magic thing called the force through which he is supossedly uses to enhance his ability to weild the weapon in question. And when it comes if “magic use” all of our “rules” go out the door.

yes, but the average movie goer hasn't really seen those videos, and "It's magic we don't have to explain it" is really bad story writing, yes I get that the Force is pretty much space magic, but well the thing with writing a fantasy like this is that, magic has to have well explained rules to it. Sure it needs that same mystical air to it, but we have to atleast somewhat know what it can and can't do. Going into the movie, I had no idea that it was possible not to touch the crossguard during combat, and as such the fact that the crossguard is possible wasn't well set up for a lot of people who don't know the same thing. It's a matter of showing it rather than telling me later on.

Again don't get me wrong - as a "movie sword" Kylo's lightsaber IS cool looking. I'm just pointing out that if such a weapon existed IRL it would be stupidly impractical for a number of reasons. *shrugs*

Consider this point with a hypothetical real world example: Why is it that no one uses knife blades as the crossguards for a sword? They would probably work to protect the user's hands from another sword's blade but because they would be so likely to HURT the sword's user no one's dumb enough to make a sword like that. If you can understand why "knife blades as a crossguard" is a bad idea why in the heck would you willingly use a hi-tech lightsaber version of "knife blades as a crossguard"?

For what's it's worth I still like the silly three-bladed sword from the highly-cheesy 80's era movie The Sword and The Sorcerer:

But I'd never be stupid enough to actually swing it around with all three blades attached.

Sometimes you just have to accept that things that "look cool" in movies aren't always going to be 100% practical IRL.

It's vents that look like a cross-guard. Not a cross-guard that is also vents. It's primary function is to vent the energy from the cracked crystal. In order to have it work as a cross-guard it'd have to be all saber which would be more dangerous.

It's more akin to having a cross-guard with spikes on the ends than a bladed cross-guard. At least that's how I view it.

Lothic, a skilled swordsman wouldn’t hit themselves with their own crossguard withnsimemminor adjustment to their form. Atain, there are videos have been done to show it is possible. One man even put fresh paint on his crossguard to show it never touches his wrist, even in a duel. And that is with a weapon with helft and weight while a light saber is very light - practically weightless.

I’ve never accepted the self-harm argument. In particular, he has had some amount in training with 2 masters in this space-magic thing called the force through which he is supossedly uses to enhance his ability to weild the weapon in question. And when it comes if “magic use” all of our “rules” go out the door.

yes, but the average movie goer hasn't really seen those videos, and "It's magic we don't have to explain it" is really bad story writing, yes I get that the Force is pretty much space magic, but well the thing with writing a fantasy like this is that, magic has to have well explained rules to it. Sure it needs that same mystical air to it, but we have to atleast somewhat know what it can and can't do. Going into the movie, I had no idea that it was possible not to touch the crossguard during combat, and as such the fact that the crossguard is possible wasn't well set up for a lot of people who don't know the same thing. It's a matter of showing it rather than telling me later on.

Again don't get me wrong - as a "movie sword" Kylo's lightsaber IS cool looking. I'm just pointing out that if such a weapon existed IRL it would be stupidly impractical for a number of reasons. *shrugs*

Consider this point with a hypothetical real world example: Why is it that no one uses knife blades as the crossguards for a sword? They would probably work to protect the user's hands from another sword's blade but because they would be so likely to HURT the sword's user no one's dumb enough to make a sword like that. If you can understand why "knife blades as a crossguard" is a bad idea why in the heck would you willingly use a hi-tech lightsaber version of "knife blades as a crossguard"?

For what's it's worth I still like the silly three-bladed sword from the highly-cheesy 80's era movie The Sword and The Sorcerer:

But I'd never be stupid enough to actually swing it around with all three blades attached.

Sometimes you just have to accept that things that "look cool" in movies aren't always going to be 100% practical IRL.

Well in all honesty I'm arguing more because arguing, if kept civil, is fun for me. It's fun for me to bounce all these ideas off of other ideas.

We’re all a bunch of geeks getting to argue the validity of an imaginary weapon weildied by a space-monk with the ability to harness space-magic. I’m nust happy for the opportunity :D

This is why you're one of my favorite devs anywhere, for any game.

—

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

To answer the question though, I would 100% cut myself in half. It makes me nervous every time they spin the light saber around. When Rae was in the fight with Snoke and she spun it around behind her, I was like "WHY?!?. What did she have to gain from that twirl/spin?!" She's had minimal time with the thing and she's whipping it around like it's no big deal.

—

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Man if only in that scene they had her use another weapon we already know she's familiar with first before switching to the lightsaber as a way to show some of her learned abilities are translatable with some alterations. Missed opportunity that.

Yeah, I can see that. Though as a place for the first Jedi it'd would only have been sacred to Luke at that point. Assuming that no other Jedi are around. Man, is K'kruhk still around? That sob was unbeatable when he has his hat on.

This isn't a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg? Before anyone becomes a SKILLED swordsman, EVERYONE starts out as an UNSKILLED swordsman. That skill has to come from somewhere ... and that somewhere demands use of the weapon in question at a point prior to actually gaining the "skilled" part of what you're talking about. Usually that means training. The most common way to go from being unskilled to being skilled is to train ... and accidents both can AND WILL happen during training (granted, not to everyone, but they will to some).

With steel swords, there's an obvious training analog in the form of the wooden sword, which can be used (relatively safely) for training. What is the counterpart for a lightsaber?

Well ... according to this featurette ... wood ...

Note that late in this video, Daisy Ridley klonks herself on the head with a staff.
Now imagine what would have happened if that had been Darth Maul's weapon instead of a wooden dowel rod.
I mean, yeah, okay ... it's a movie, so they'd just do a retake of that shot ... but out in the "real world" where there are no Mulligans for whacking yourself in the head with a lightsaber (even accidentally) ... um ... yeah ...

—

Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

Yeah, I'm not excusing Luke's inexplicable ability to use the force or a lightsaber with little to no training. I was just showcasing that there are indeed safe ways to practice with a lightsaber.

Luke, right, moved his lightsaber. But how did he know he could do that? Obiwan never used the force in that manner and Vader didn't. Vader force choked a guy but Luke didn't see. At the end of a new hope Luke knows the force can do two things: allow you accuracy when predicaments are difficult, and affect the weak minded (and maybe talking to people beyond the grave). Suddenly he's moving a lightsaber with the force.

Rey at least had direct force contact with another force user who was using the force to affect minds, then after realizing she has that power and that it can affect minds, she uses it to affect minds. Also knows you can move things with this power. And figures out how to do that herself.

But yet folks give Luke a pass but Rey's use of the force is totally inexplicable.

I just assumed when Kylo tried to invade Rey's mind, it was a two-way street, which pretty much instantly gave her a big chunk of his training... oops!

As for sabres, if I could choose any to use, it'd be the darksaber. It's shorter than a normal light-saber, and so safer to use. It also has a flat "blade" instead of a cylinder, which again, is probably safer. It also has a little bit of a (metal only) hilt to it, to keep the hand from the saber. All in all, it's a very well-designed saber for combat, and could probably be used safely even by a non-force-user.

I would predominantly use the Mandalorian-made darksaber to kill Mandalorians, because I like irony and don't like Mandalorians. If you look at the old republic ancient-history lore, their "warrior" nature is seriously in question. If they came up against a race they can't fight, that bested them in every land and space battle, they just bombard that race's planet from space like cowards. So... yeah, for some reason I don't like genocidal cowards. Go figure. They did make a really cool saber, though!

Eh. Tactics are a weapon in a warriors arsenal. If the other people can't defend against a spacial bombardment they deserve to be bombed. That's the Mandalorian way.

There is no way to defend against spacial bombardment. Mandalorians wouldn't be able to defend against it. Logistically there is no way, if the payloads are sent from far enough away and are not in missile form, to defend.

And while this tactic makes sense for a race of robotic brainiacs, like Daleks, it is not the tactic of a "warrior race." A "warrior race" wouldn't primarily target civilians because they're scared little babies afraid to face the warriors on the other side. Imagine if Klingons acted like that, running away from battle with their tail between their legs so they can send long range drones later. No one would take Klingons as warriors after that, so I don't see why Mandalorians would get a pass. A man who's afraid to face another man and so makes a chemical or biological weapon in a lab is not a "warrior." They might be a "conqueror" or a "killer" or even an "exterminator" but not a "warrior."

No way to defend from spacial bombardment? The rebel base on Hoth had a shield generator for just such a defense. Also the presence of a powerful space fleet would cause an orbital bombardment difficulty.

If they want to fight Mandalorians they need to be worthy to face them. There's no honor in killing the weak, so you don't need to face them honorably. You squash them like bugs.

The Mandalorians did not have a defense against that. Fett couldn't return home because a toxin was added to the atmosphere. Anyone of those bloodlines could never return home and not die. Other races could use their world, though, which is a special kind of poetic justice. Not sure how much of that is still cannon, but it goes to show that the Mandalorians themselves had no such defense.

I suppose you consider a True Hunter to be one who pays some guys to drug an animal and drag it into a clear spot so you can shoot it. That's a direct one-to-one allegory, right there. And, here's the real kicker, the movies would agree. How did the Fetts lose again? Oh right, when their expensive equipment malfunctioned or was damaged they died like punks... just like a rich "hunter" accustomed to canned hunts would if his rifle jammed and it turned out the animal wasn't drugged. Exactly the same.

Frame it whatever kind of tough-guy talk you want, but if you hide in a bunker somewhere because you are pissing your pants at the mere thought of fighting the enemy on the battlefield, so you release some kind of wmd instead, you are not a tough-guy. I'll never respect a "hunter" who uses drugged, canned hunts, nor a "fisherman" who uses dynamite, nor a "warrior" who uses WMD's out of raw fear.

What's really ironic is, despite going to such great lengths as attempting to genocide entire races that were too tough to fight in person, the Mandalorians still ultimately lost. You've gotta be really pathetic to lose despite using those sorts of extreme measures.

Releasing a potent toxin into an environment isn't what I'd consider a bombardment from space.

But all is fair in love and war GG Mandalorian slayers, GG.

As far as Mandalorians and honor go they only respect other Mandalorians and Jedi/Sith though reluctantly. Mandalorians (or those who consider themselves "true" Mandalorians) are huge advocates of Mandalorian supremacy. So it's not really surprising that they utilize less than honorable tactics, their enemies (to them) are not worthy of honor.

And I'm not sure of the fate of the Mandalorians in the current canon. They're still around in Star Wars Rebels last I saw, though the empire I think was attempting to kill them all. Or at least had a weapon designed to specifically target Mandalorian armor and cook those inside such.

It is annoying not knowing what is and isn't cannon. Half the stuff I said about them going genocide-happy might not have even happened now. I assume it did, because most of the pre-movies stuff is still sound, and that's all old history. However, some of the pre-movie stuff has been changed. Originally, the writers envisioned them as a band of many species held together by a plunderer/conqueror's lifestyle, kind of like how the Mongolians recruited from the defeated. Now, however, they're a planet of humans who are really good at engineering weapons. So who knows what is and isn't official now.

Disney's cannon-erasing might be a good thing, though, in the end. The books, the comics, etc, all were on different time-lines so it was very daunting trying to get into any of it, which is why I ultimately quit trying a long time ago. There was continuity A, B, C, etc. Now there's only one. Unfortunately, we don't actually know what is in that one, entirely. Ultimately, Disney probably doesn't know either, and is deliberately leaving things up in the air so they can decide it's A B or C when a plot pops up that benefits from one over the other.

Yeah, unsure what's cannon. As far as I'm aware since KotOR came out Mandalorians have been a race of human warriors. The only changes that's been made to them is that they're still around now, and during the clone wars or before it they had a reform and attempted to become peaceful isolationists. Probably because being terrible war mongers almost got them wiped out.