Joel Osteen tackles the question of whether gay marriage is ‘against the rules’

by Meghan

Thursday, Jun 5, 2014 at 1:03 PM EDT

During an appearance on HuffPost Live on Monday, Pastor Joel Osteen was asked whether gay marriage is “against the rules.” While Osteen made his opposition to gay marriage known, he also offered an important caveat.

“It would be [against the rules]… but I don’t really focus on a lot of those things,” Osteen said. “I try to stay in my lane of what I feel called to do. [The topic] does come up in interviews and things… that’s not my core message.”

Osteen explained that his core message is helping people let go of the past, reach their dreams, have a healthy self-image, and raise good children. While homosexuality is part of addressing life issues, the pastor said he doesn’t want to be defined by his views on the issue.

“Everybody’s welcome, but my take on it is, you know, it’s easy to make one issue — to become known for that or to let it side track your message,” he said. “If you look at our congregation… we all have issues, everybody’s on a journey.”

Watch Osteen’s comments below:

On radio this morning, Glenn reacted to Osteen’s response and the constant baiting those who hold a Christian view of marriage face.

“I can’t listen to it anymore. Look what Joel Osteen is trying to do. A house divided against itself cannot stand,” Glenn said. “So who is the one who says, ‘Yes, I believe that. But even if there are people in my congregation who don’t believe it, you can be happier than you are. You can be whole. You can have a good family. Let’s start building on the things we agree on.’”

As Glenn explained, the media has a habit of trying to “trap” those who believe in traditional marriage whenever possible, but they seldom ask any other questions about the Bible or Christian views.

“Everyone in the mainstream media tries to trap any pastor, politician, athlete, and all Bible believers into that one question. Is that the only issue from the Bible that they will ever ask,” Glenn asked. “They don’t ask, ‘Hey, what did Jesus say on the Sermon of the Mount?’ ‘What was his main message?’ ‘What did he mean when he said cast the first stone?’ ‘Pastor, do you really believe he rose from the dead?’ I mean there’s a controversial thing. ‘Do you really believe he rose from the dead? And why would he have done that?’ They won’t ask that question. It’s ‘gay,’ ‘gay,’ ‘gay,’ ‘gay,’ ‘gay.’”

“That’s all it is,” he concluded. “Is that the only question?”

ScaryLogic

They focus on the Bible’s small passages about homosexuality because the Bible is what everyone seems to use to justify the hatred towards those types of people.

I don’t support that lifestyle, and I don’t condone it. However, in the argument of “gay marriage” it’s incredibly hard to defend a contrary stance from a legal perspective.

Anonymous

And it seems the “legal perspective” is all we have any more, the moral perspective is passe.

“Haven’t you read the Scriptures?” Jesus replied. “They record that from the beginning ‘God made them male and female.’ And He said, ‘This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.’ (Mat 19:4-5 NLT)

Christine Guinn

That’s YOUR religion! What if you’re not Christian?

Anonymous

Doesn’t matter. ALL religions recognize marriage that way.

Anonymous

Then I am sorry but according to our bible you will be lost like the rest.

Anonymous

Trying to justify a wicked lifestyle Christine??? or a serious question?

ScaryLogic

The problem with the Bible is a few things.

First of all. “Doctrines” are cherry picked to be used indiscriminately for the users’ purposes.

Culture and context are key. Why do some versus apply regardless while I could post some really twisted stuff from the same book and people would inevitably reply “oh…well…ya… that was a different time…and ya…”

Anonymous

You are painting with a very broad brush. The question you should ask yourself is, “Is Jesus who he claimed to be?” As far as the “twisted stuff” you are probably unwilling at this point to attempt an understanding of those things which you feel to be twisted (I assume you refer to certain events in the Old Testament). Some things are dependent on culture and context, but the moral precepts are not among them. Might I suggest “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis as some food for thought.

ScaryLogic

You mistake me for a common pot stirrer. (I don’t fault you for that, this in the internet after all)

I have likely more knowledge of the Bible and other religious texts than most people posting here.

You are right, context is important. As well as cultural things. But am I to understand God is bound by the cultures of men? That seems odd to me.

Anonymous

Exactly! God is not bound by the cultures of men; men and their cultures are to be bound by the precepts of God. That is where almost all of these online discussions go astray. When you defend same sex marriage you are standing in judgement of God. You can’t see any harm in it, so never mind what Moses, or Jesus, or his apostles said about the subject. It only matters what human reason has to say, as if God does not exist, or, if he does, he has no skin in the game (so to speak) and really doesn’t know what is best for his creation.

ScaryLogic

I think you misunderstood. I responded with “God being bound by culture” in response to you saying my passages about slavery are simply cultural.

If you accept the Bible as some divine book, then you are accepting those principles outlining how slaves are to be bought and sold, and to say that is simply a cultural thing, is to assert God made laws for those people because that is their culture. Is slavery somehow not wrong then?

Amber

I don’t claim to know very much about ANYTHING with ancient law, but I would suggest that there is a difference between man’s law and God’s law though. Just because a law is discussed in the Bible does not mean that it is one God gave directly to His people.

Amber

I wouldn’t say the Bible is the problem so much as the readers and the way they use it. I don’t think you are wrong in suggesting that many Christians cherry pick what they use the Bible to support or to negate based on their own opinions and beliefs. And sadly, it is true that many Christians have not read the Bible themselves and simply repeat what they have been told which leads to conflict. Many want to justify their own actions while condemning others. Human nature doesn’t seem to be very loving, unfortunately, and so often times, the Bible is manipulated to fuel and justify others hatred. But, I would argue, if you just read the Bible and the lessons preached in context and if Christians and non-Christians alike would stop picking verses to suit their own needs, they would see a remarkable story of loving one another and striving to create a world of mutual respect and love. But none of us, Christians included, are perfect and we continuously fail at even those simple precepts.

Sorry, got off topic. Either way, yes, people do pick and choose what they want to believe, which I don’t think is right, but that doesn’t refute the argument that some of those Old Testament laws were upheld in a different cultural and spiritual situation. The Covenant created when Jesus died on the cross changed a lot of things.

Sorry for the insanely long post.

Jamie

What you are referring to is the Old Testament and I liken it to Sharia Law that is practiced by Muslims still, to this day. You forget that Jesus came and gave us the greatest commandment of all, which is, love your neighbor as yourself. What is being focused on is the sin, not the state of sinner. What Joel says is sound. We all sin, doesn’t matter what it is. We are all entitled to happiness and equal rights.

Robert John Pease

The problem is in a court of law morality doesn’t have a leg to stand on because it would be unfairo

Anonymous

Well then, we will have no more trials for rape, murder, theft, etc.

Anonymous

Please don’t add fuel to the argument that all Bible believing Christians “hate those people”. Like God, I hate the sin, not the sinner.

ScaryLogic

I’m not, it’s a simple fact. The Bible IS what people use. Without it, how many people would honestly have a reason to care?

Christine Guinn

And they use the Bible hypocritically! You don’t see that Colorado baker refusing to make a wedding cake for someone who’s been divorced and re-married, do you? Adultery is still a sin, but people want to pick and choose WHICH sin to hate, (because of course, the don’t hate the sinner, right?)

Anonymous

You want to know how to identify a liberal? Look for the False Dichotomy pouring out of their mouth. In your case: Because not all sins are equally condemned, no sin should be condemned. It’s an argument a five-year old makes.

ScaryLogic

No, Christine Guinn is pointing out the hypocrisy in how adamantly one “sin” is fought against, while others very closely related in social severity are completely ignored by the same faction.

And I doubt a 5 year old would ever make that kind of statement, especially one raised in a strict Christian house hold, thinking for themselves and all.

Anonymous

Nope, false dichotomy. Or tu quoque. Take our pick.

ScaryLogic

Explain how “gay marriage” is fought against while divorce is a mere afterthought in comparison.

Timothy Fosseen

There were exceptions in the Bible when it came to re-marriage after divorce. There were NO exceptions in the Bible regarding the issue of sexuality

Lisa Duffie McBride

True!

jusawhiteguy

scary, it’s called morality. bible or not.

ScaryLogic

Ah, yes… morality. But different cultures have morality. Who determines what is moral for any large group of people?

SRM29

As a Christian, it really offends me when you and like minded people insist we hate homosexuals. It’s called disagreement. We believe the Bible as God’s Word, and therefore we believe it’s wrong. I really don’t understand how that equals hate.

And uh… i know a lot of non believers who think homosexuality is wrong. They go unnoticed because the media and the hundreds of activist groups are constantly hounding Christians about it and trying to kick up controversy.

ScaryLogic

Well, for one I never said Christians inherently hate them, I said the Bible is what people use to justify it, which is true.

Also, the non believers don’t go unnoticed because of some media conspiracy. They aren’t bothered because they aren’t organizing, protesting, and getting money together to overturn prop 8 when that was going on.

Keith Belvitch

God hates sin because He loves the sinner.

Debbie Roberts

My faith tells me to love the sinner and hate the sin. So, I pray that those who have an alternate lifestyle are right with their higher power. MY GOD says this isn’t natural or normal behavior but – he also says LOVE all sinners. So, I believe in traditional marriage, I don’t believe in gay marriage – but if they want to legalize their status for taxes and ownership rights, etc. call it something besides marriage. Marriage is a GOD thing and that is between a man and a woman.

Christine Guinn

Marriage is not inherently religious. It has historically been used to create alliances and secure inheritance rights.

Curtis Smith

Marriage was one of the first things God gave Man and Woman.

Angelita Sta Ana

yes indeed,, not to a man and man and woman to woman ,,why do people hard to understand that ,,its simple

Anonymous

Um, yes it is. All religions, from Christianity to pagan have marriage rituals. And while marriage was SOMETIMES used for the purposes you cite, it was still solemnized in a religious ceremony.

Robert Mission

So when a “Priest” weds a man and a women in a “Church” it’s not historically or inherently religious? You should just delete this response Christine because if you were any smarter I could water you!

ScaryLogic

Marriage is a religious thing in one way or another, but it spreads though all religions through countless traditions.

So… using the statement that is “religious” doesn’t pull much weight.

Cory Alan McEntire

twisting words will not make you better…

Cory Alan McEntire

Gift from God is marriage. and God is real proof of science show that, and also it is your choice to accept this truth or not, it is not my soul at stake, but i hope someday you understand, i want you with me in heaven

Anonymous

You need to go and read your Bible if you have one. You don’t sound like someone that have or read a Bible anyway. Starting from Genesis, God performed the first marriage between Adam (man) and Eve (woman) not Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve. That is the reality of it all, since then, marriage as been between a woman and a man and it is rooted in the Bible.

Christine Guinn

I have several Bibles, thank you.

Did you know that the Bibles you are famikliar with is a compliation of texts that was compiled in about 382 A.D. There are many more texts out there that we left out of the Bible because the Catholic church didn’t like them.

Freedom County

Straw Man.
NONE of the apocryphal texts, that I am aware of, and I have read a great many of them, indicate marriage was anything more or less than what Genesis gives us… Man + Woman.
Further, most of the texts all declare homosexuality to be “sin”, including the New Testament … where Christ, himself, declares we should avoid “Pornia”, the Greek word for “any illicit sexual behavior”; Christ was a Jew, and therefore, believed Homosexuality to be an “illicit sexual behavior”…

We could go on and on about this all night… but the point is:
Religion should set the rules regarding Marriage, not the Government. The Government, by its very nature, MUST accept CONTRACTS between people willing to make them. SO when a man and woman are married, they also must make a contract for legal purposes. There is NOTHING stopping a couple of men or women from ALSO creating a contract, and having that contract recognized by the Legal Authority.. it is called “equality under the law”…
AND
Since Religions DO NOT make LAW, they should be left out of the argument.

suzyshopper

In every valid interpretation of the Bible it talks about marriage being between one man one woman the only interpretation of any book that would be different is the one where a person has and agenda too be pushed.Just because u disagree with God on a certain subject , does not mean we have too believe what u say.Also if u knew the Bible, it says that the Holy Spirit will guide us in too all truth.In other words we not only depend on the Bible, to guide us into the truth, God also gave us the Spirit too keep us from heresies, that were too come after the first church was created.

@christineguinn:disqus,
The WORD “Marriage” comes from the 12th Century FRANCE. It was used to describe a RELIGIOUS UNION between man and woman.
During that time, the Government ALSO controlled “Marriage” AND that Government was lead by a person who believed was CONSECRATED BY GOD to be King. The CHURCH was a part of the Government.

We here, in the 20th Century, believe that Church and State should be separated. What does that mean? That the Government should not violate the 1st Amendment by defining, controlling, forbidding, any Marriage… Yet, this is exactly what the Government is doing… and we are OK with this?

Think about this… back in the 1830s, in Ohio, Church and State were separated. If a couple got Married, they would bring the paperwork to the Civil Authorities and have the State recognize their marriage for legal and census purposes.
If people wanted to create a family without getting a Church involved, they went to a Justice of the Peace (Judge) and had him sign the paperwork to legally recognize their union.

So… why do we now allow the Government to issue “marriage licences”? Why do we now allow the Government to define what is and what is not marriage? Why do we now allow the Government to make one form of marriage legal while another is illegal? Should not that be defined by the Religions and their views of Marriage?

Since the Gay Community wants LEGAL RECOGNITION of their unions, why are they going after “Marriage”? Why do they not fight for “equality under the law”? Why do they not fight for the right to create a contract (the LEGAL part of a Religious Marriage)?

Or is it your contention that we are to go back and live like in the 12th century and allow the Government to control our lives, up to and including our religious practices like “marriage”?

Christine Guinn

Hate to burst your bubble, but marriage, (whether that was the term used for it or not), existed LONG before the 12 century! It also existed long before Christianity.

Freedom County

The concept, yes, but the word, no.
And prior to the Kings believing they were called of God, we had RELIGIOUS ceremonies to join people as husband and wife… the “State” didn’t really care…
We see this in the meridian of time, with Joseph and Mary… they were Married, but still had to be counted by the Legal Authority in the Census… 2 different actions, or they wouldn’t have needed to count them, they would have had record of their marriage…
Etc, etc, etc…

I can go back even further… the Ancient Greeks, the Sumerians, etc… they all had “religious rites” that governed “Marriage” (or their word to describe it)…

Or, you can believe we are a “free people” even when we have to ask permission to get married…
I’ll believe we are free when we don’t have to ask for such permission, but instead, notify the legal authority of my marriage for legal purposes…

Are we a “free people” or are we not?

Eloisa Solano Derrera

Marriage is a covenant.

Eloisa Solano Derrera

Be fruitful and multiply.

lexingtonnchick

I absolutely agree with you. Call it something other than marriage. I don’t think its a sin- its just not for me. I don’t hate gay people- I just want my right to my Christian beliefs without being called names- the same way gay people want their belifs without being called names.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

YOU don’t think it’s a sin? What does God think? Who’s word is more important? Scripture is quite clear that God considers it an abomination. This is true in both the new and old Testaments. Are you a Christian? If so, what message are you sending? That sin is bad unless you don’t like the fact that it is a sin? I do not hate sinners either, but I will never condone rebellious sin in any form. Loving our brother never constitutes condoning thier sin. Love is showing our brother how to leave sin behind and accept Jesus. Never condemn, but teach the truth. This is the truth

Any sex outside of marriage is a sin. 99.9% of people have sex before marriage. You should concern yourself with your own sins, and have faith that God will forgive your sins and others’ sins equally.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

Are you kidding me? Other people sin too so we should just lay down and accept all sin? I do have faith that God will forgive MY sin. But then again, I am repentant of those sins. You do not advocate repentance, you advocate tolerance. Tolerance is how you lead the lost to Hell. What you should be doing is standing for Christ as a Christian (if you are in fact one). Love all men, but teach the TRUTH in love and compassion.

Jojo

We are born into sin. Not one person on earth is perfect and that is why Jesus laid down his life and carried the cross. I think so and so was right in that you should concern yourselfwith your own sin.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

Jojo, I fully understand that we are all born into sin. I also understand that I must address my own sin (Matt 7: 3-5). However, how do you suggest we follow Jesus’ command (Matt 28:19) without addressing the fact that you cannot come into the Kingdom as a sinner (1 Cor 6:8-10)? I am not judging, I am teaching. Big Difference.

ca in texas

you are judging.. address your own sins first. Let others decided what is their sin to deal with. Speaking God’s word is not about jumping on one topic.

Anonymous

Speaking God’s Word is about telling the truth. There’s nothing else to it really, try not to think too hard about it. If Larry is judging, so be it. It doesn’t change the merit of the Bible verses he’s quoting.

ca in texas

The verses he quoted never mentions homosexual relationships. Only adultery and fornication. He is making the words what he believes not what is said in the scripture. Neither fornication nor adultery are definitions of homosexuality. That is Larry’s truth not God’s
Larry might want to judge all those who have cheated on their spouses, the people who children out of wedlock, those addicted to pornography, etc first.

ca in texas

That bible verse doesnt say anything about homosexuality. He is using scripture and twisting it to suit his own fears.

Anonymous

Every single verse in the Bible that talks about homosexuality frames it as a sin that God abhors. No matter what you think, homosexuality is an abomination in GOD’s eyes! This isn’t coming from me, it’s not coming from Larry, it’s the Word of God that is indeed 100% judgmental.
God is walking on a spiritual journey with homosexuals the same as with you and me. He preaches forgiveness to them on a level with every single human being. I yelled at my boss the other day, I cursed at him and got angry. That sin of me losing my temper is exactly equivalent to a person being a homosexual. God loves me but I stand condemned without Jesus suffering on the cross.
Get mad at Larry all you want. If you believe in God, and you are telling the truth to unbelievers as fervently as Larry is, then you have found favor with God. Instead, you’ve spotted someone quoting God’s Word and you are chastising him for it. Homosexuality is wrong, period. I will say it to as many people that bring it up to me as possible.

ca in texas

You have missed my point. The bible is very clear about many things. But it does not say that homosexuality is a sin. He us quoting scripture out of context. And you may need to look and see if you find scripture that actually says the words homosexuality is a sin. My bible does not say those words not did Larry’s. So Larry might want to preach on a subject that he has actual scripture on.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

“nor abusers of themselves with mankind” I suggest you read it again.

ca in texas

I suggest you read the new testament, and then ask yourself do we still follow the laws of the old testament like abolishing people for having sexual relations when the woman is on het period, do we stone people for sins.. Jesus said no we don’t do that nor does GOD. And you keep quoting scripture that doesn’t mention homosexuality.. at least use a verse that says a man shouldn’t lay with a man… Smh

HA

He is not judging. God has already judged the subject. He is simply stating what has already been deemed as a sin.

ca in texas

That scripture dies not say homosexuality is sin. It says adultery and fornication is a sin. But the bible clearly says we are not to judge, only God can Maybe instead of misinterpreting the word. He should see how it applies to himself But

Anonymous

Hey, CA, I’m originally from Texas, and most of us can read and understand clear English. What does effeminate and abusers of themselves with mankind conjure up to you?

“Slaves” in the OT were treated MUCH better than Americans, Europeans, etc. treated slaves, though.

Temma

What about in Romans? It says in 1:24-26 that they’ve given God’s laws away and replaced them with homosexual urges.

ca in texas

The version of the bible I looked up does not say homosexuality. It says unnatural, which could mean with animals even. Again you are all putting your own words into scripture. Let homosexuals decide what the word means to them and you go deal with your own sins

ca in texas

I Looked up several versions actualy. What version are you reading

HA

Romans 1, Leviticus 18 and 20. It clearly states that homosexuality is a sin.

HA

The Bible clearly states that we are not to judge others if we are struggling with sin. “Take the log out your own eye than you will be able to see clearly to take the stick out of your brother’s eye.” It also says we are to be accountable to others. Again, if God has deemed it sinful, it is not judging.

Anonymous

No he is not. He is telling it like it is. He is spreading the gospel.

Linda Creech

God tells Christians to go and teach the sinners and try to bring them to Christ. Not judge, geeze, people you are sounding like another subject these days.

ca in texas

And I am trying to teach him that he is making the words suit his on judgment not Gods. And that is a SIN. . That scripture never talks about homosexuality. Just adultery and fornication neither of which define homosexuality. ISN’T THERE actual sins of people he could find to judge. Drunk drivers, domestic abusers, thefts, etc.

JohnQ

“For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper” Romans 1:26-28

Teresa Rowland

Thank you for posting this. I’m not very good at remembering verses. Can you tell me where it talks about men lying with men in the OT?

Forgotten Vet

“If a man lies with a male as he
lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.”
(Leviticus 20:13).

“You shall not lie with a male
as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any
animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an
animal to mate with it. It is perversion. ‘Do not defile yourselves with
any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I
am casting out before you.” (Leviticus 18:22-24).

“For this reason God gave them up
to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for
what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use
of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men
committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of
their error which was due.” (Romans 1:26-27).

“As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a
similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and
gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance
of eternal fire.” (Jude 7)

Exactly what type of “sexual immorality” and
“strange flesh” had the Sodomites
“gone after”? It was
homosexuality:

“Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of
Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the
house. And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to
you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
(Genesis 19:4-5)

“You shall not lie with a male
as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any
animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an
animal to mate with it. It is perversion. ‘Do not defile yourselves with
any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I
am casting out before you.” (Leviticus 18:22-24).

“For this reason God gave them up
to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for
what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use
of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men
committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of
their error which was due.” (Romans 1:26-27).

“As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a
similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and
gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance
of eternal fire.” (Jude 7)

Exactly what type of “sexual immorality” and
“strange flesh” had the Sodomites
“gone after”? It was
homosexuality:

“Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of
Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the
house. And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to
you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
(Genesis 19:4-5)

ca in texas

You left out the old law that says if a man lays with a woman while she is menstrating that they shall be abolished from their people. Maybe Larry should judge those people too.

ca in texas

That scripture never says homosexuality is a sin. But I am sure you can find scripture that will tell you that judging others is wrong

JohnQ

“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals” I Corinthians 6:9

JohnQ

“and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching” I Timothy 1:10

Myk Nelsen

The words homosexual or homosexuality did not appear in the Bible until after 1946. This just just to show people that the Bible has been rewritten so many damn times it has been watered down in some areas and built up in other to suit the person doing the rewriting.

Temma

That’s an excuse not to see the need for grace in the situation though. Just because it gives a description and not the word doesn’t mean the actions themselves aren’t wrong. There wasn’t sexting in the time of Jesus, but we all know its wrong for kids to engage in the act, yes?

JohnQ

The thing is CA in Texas, the scriptures couldn’t possible be any clearer on this topic. This is not about Christians “judging” homosexuals. God has already made this determination and communicated HIS views on this throughout both the Old and New Testaments. And what the Bible clearly states, is that homosexuality is immoral behavior. It’s a sin as defined by God. For you to say otherwise is either a statement of ignorance as to what the Bible actually says, or a desire to rationalize your unBiblical beliefs by attempting to twist what the Bible says.

ca in texas

My belief is not the point. My point was that Larry was not quoting scripture accurately, and that the old laws were just that old. Like We don’t abolish people from the community for sexual relations during a womans menses anymore either.
And I am very knowledgeable of what the bible says not ignorant as you imply. It clearly says that we love our neighbors.. Larry wasn’t really showing love in his so called “speaking the word”. o

Csa in AZ

Sorry. Not judging, just stating the facts. If you need more clarity on what the Bible says about homosexuality please check out this page.

it is very clear. Yes it is also not our place to judge people, that is God’s job. One day each and everyone of us will stand before God and give an account of our lives.

At that time we will all be judged and either go to Heaven or Hell.

Please look well into this matter that you are making statements about. If you have truly read the Bible there really is no way to come to one and only one conclusion on how God feels about this subject.

Forgotten Vet

Yes the scriptures does indeed say Homosexuality is a sin.

“If a man lies with a male as he
lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.”
(Leviticus 20:13).

“You shall not lie with a male
as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any
animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an
animal to mate with it. It is perversion. ‘Do not defile yourselves with
any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I
am casting out before you.” (Leviticus 18:22-24).

“For this reason God gave them up
to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for
what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use
of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men
committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of
their error which was due.” (Romans 1:26-27).

“As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a
similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and
gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance
of eternal fire.” (Jude 7)

Exactly what type of “sexual immorality” and
“strange flesh” had the Sodomites
“gone after”? It was
homosexuality:

“Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of
Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the
house. And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to
you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
(Genesis 19:4-5)

Temma

Perhaps we need to discuss the difference between condemnation and conviction then? I’m convicted to be calmer with my children, not condemned when I slip and shout though. The same can be said of homosexuality. We can be convicted to see the sin in lying with someone of the same sex, but not condemned by it. Does that make sense?

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

You need to understand the difference between judging and teaching. By your definition, all Pastors giving a sunday sermon are doing nothing more than judging.

elena

Teaching? “He among you who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.” Are you willing to be nailed to the cross?

Anonymous

He IS teaching. He is even giving you chapter and verse from the scriptures.

Myk Nelsen

Sorry but that is wrong, he is quoting not teaching, there is a huge difference. Until people stop treating the Bible like a buffet, picking and choosing what they want to follow and ignoring the rest, please stop trying to shove it in our faces.

ca in texas

What he quoted doesn’t say homosexuality is a sin. He needs to talk to adulterous folks then

Those who are of GOD WILL LISTEN TO YOU ,those of the world will not 1JOHN 4; 6 I’m listening.

Csa in AZ

Yes it is clever that you would use the very words of Jesus Christ in this post. Do you know that actual context in which it was used? It is not our job to judge people as Christians. As stated prior God will be the judge of all of us on the final day either when He calls everyone home in the rapture or he calls you home when it is your time.

Please attend a good Bible based church and take the time to study and get to know the Scriptures.

Myk Nelsen

I don’t mean to get personal, but depending on your age, your wife was most likely not a virgin when you married her. Did you take her to her Father’s house and have her stoned to death? That’s in the Bible. Until you actually start following the Bible word for word, please do not try to preach on it, you are not the one who is to judge sir.

Trevor Cressey

Um first of all that is from the Old Testament. Were are not under that covenant. Jesus came to fulfill the law through his sacrifice. Therefore we don’t follow the rules of the Old Testament any longer. We follow the new much more difficult rules. Love The Lord with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. You really need to understand the bible better. The laws of Moses were established to show the level of holiness that God requires because he is perfect. Once he first established through laws how holiness can be attained people still failed and priests had to sacrifice animals for the sins of the community. After Jesus the law was fulfilled. We are covered now by his grace and his commands to love are more difficult than following out dated laws. No true Christian follows the Torah. We would be Jews If that were the case. The Old Testament is to show us what Jesus accomplished on the cross so we as Christians follow “Jesus Christ” hence the reason were called “CHRISTians”

Susan Ivany

AMEN!!!

Trevor Cressey

Only people who truly don’t understand the bible quote verses from the Old Testament. Of course there are principles, wisdom, songs and prophecies which we take seriously. But the actual “LAWS” of Moses are Jewish in nature. That’s the difference between Christians and Jewish people. We believe the law was fulfilled through Christ. They do not. So bringing up verses from numbers and Leviticus and so on as if true Christians are supposed to follow those laws is very ignorant and quite frankly I’m tired of people trying to use that argument. It is not valid, to any real Christian who actually understands and has read the bible it makes you completely invalid. The bible paints a huge picture and as a whole means a lot more than a few rules from the Old Testament. Jesus is the compass to how we live. He is the word, is the law, if He says something as a true christian that is what we take as truth. Jesus did not condone stoning anyone. That was the religious community of old. It’s one of the things he came to die for. Christians are not called to follow laws. Not even the 10 commandments! Sounds crazy right? But that’s because the 10 commandments are covered in these two laws given to us by Jesus: love The Lord with all your heart, love your neighbor as yourself” that IS the 10 commanents! And so much more! Real believers understand exactly what I’m saying. You need to really study the bible. Your soul depends on it! It’s the most important thing you will ever do in life. Very urgent! Do not wait one more day!

Teresa Rowland

Thank you Trevor! You have spoken the whole truth.

Charlotte DeHart

yes Trevor you got it right! Amen to that!

Jess Cardenas

Wonderfully put.

Biff Jones

The New Testament reiterates the importance of 9 commandments (no Sabbath), but left out the Levitical stuff.

Prudence Seymour

so well said…Thank you Trevor

Legend Of Ben

good job Trevor I totally agree with you and wish I could’ve put it to words as you have.

Ingrid Thompson

Thank you Trevor I could not said it any better. I also get upset when people use the Old Testament and apply to today. The Old Testament is there for our learning. You sound like a member of the Lord’s church, Church of Christ ?

Rick Johnson-Dr J

There is wisdom in the 10 commandments and old laws but Jesus brought a new covenant and path for living. Rom. 10:9-10. However, Jesus loved all but did not condone the sin. He led them away from sin to new life (old things are passed away and all things become new). We all sin but the constant sin that we refuse to repent from causes our separation from the Lord. It is the ignorance of those who pick and chose scripture to prove their lifestyle that causes so many issues. The Bible is absolute truth, either believe or reject it, free will leaves it up to you but we will all answer for our choice in the end.

Linda Wilson

AMEN!

debbie

Trevor, You speak truth! Amen. By the grace of Jesus on the cross, we have been set FREE!!!!!

Kailea

Amen!!! Man, Glory be to Christ Jesus!!

Bethany

You would appreciate Dr. Scott Hahn’s writings about God’s covenant relationship as family starting with Adam and Eve, growing through Noah and Abraham and then up to Christ Jesus and his Church as the Bride. Our families reflect that covenantal relationship with God. A big reason for marriage is for our participation in the family covenant and being open to God’s plan for children that was there since the beginning of man. This is not part of a homosexual union– sodomy does not ever create children and therefore cannot ever be a covenantal marriage. Homosexual behavior takes the sacramental nature out of a relationship– i.e. There is no grace imparted from God in that situation. It’s not loving to hold back what God has put so much effort into telling us for 2,000 years by sending Jesus to us. Just because some people living right now (and not even for a 100 years more) want to define what is right and wrong by their “feelings” and get offended by what they don’t agree with (God’s morals), we shouldn’t ignore God and our chances of spending our eternity in heaven just to make a few selfish people feel good!

Myk Nelsen

So you can read Greek I guess? Until you read the actual Bible, not the one that has been written, rewritten, translated a multitude of time and then rewritten in Engilsh multiple times, please do not try to tell me what is in the Bible.

Now with what you have said about the Old Testament, we should just throw them in the trash correct, because it is not worth a damn thing correct?

Wasn’t Christ born Jewish?

Trevor Cressey

Seriously? Wow, ok first of all Ofcourse we don’t throw out the Old Testament. It’s the building blocks to understanding the work of Christ. Without the Old Testament we wouldn’t truly understand what he accomplished. Yes he was a Jew. He was the messiah that the Jews were waiting for. They rejected Him. He had to be a Jew because the Jewish Torah is the foundation for Christianity. The only difference is Christ was the messiah that the Old Testament spoke of, but the Jews didn’t believe Him. They are still waiting for the messiah. And to your point about Greek. The Dead Sea scrolls found and dated are evidence that the bible has remained un changed since it was originally written. But obviously you know very little about religion anyway. Honestly no offense but you sound like a foolish person. Your understanding of the bible is literally the same as a 10-12 year old in Sunday school. Do a little research before you throw out your opiniated arguments that hold not valid reasoning

Ken

Well said.

rickmcknight

Good reply Trevor. God help these people who don’t understand the bible. Read 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

seth panti

Trevor , this is great. You have hit the nail properly into the wood. I hope it sinks into the brain of that ignorant but arrogant Myk Nelson.

Myk Nelsen

Thank you for the name calling oh, Mr. Great Chirstian! You are the perfect example.

Paul Allen

Your own attitude comes back to bite you. But it may be time for all to take a deep breath and say a quiet prayer before rushing to these comments.

Faith

Trevor, I find your condescending lectures to others quite irresponsible and offensive. Saying that those who don’t truly understand the Bible are not Christians? It is NOT for you to judge. Admonishing others for their beliefs is also NOT your call. We are all free to interpret the Bible as we see fit. And while we try to lead a Christian life, it is impossible to live a sin free life. So while I admire your ambition, get over yourself. You are just as human as the rest of us and are no better or worse than the person on either side of you. And furthermore, to suggest that the only difference in Jews and Christians is that Jews believe in the Old Testament and not the New, sounds to me like you need to educate yourself just a little bit more. Your wisdom is somewhat limited and your ego definitely out of control. Which is in and of itself, a sin.

Trevor Cressey

Ok, first of all I am lecturing anyone. I am tired of people mis representing the bible and Christianity. Pulling verses from the Old Testament as if we are supposed to follow those is a blatant attack on scripture used by many non Christians to try and show a flaw in the biblical text. People here this stuff and say “yeah that’s right why aren’t Christians stoning people? They must not believe the bible!” And innocent people are led astray simply because they don’t understand. And my statement about the Jewish culture is absolutely correct. The entire base of their religion is the rejection of the messiah and the continual worship and practice of the Old Testament and Yawaeh without Jesus involved. Of course I understand that the Jewish culture is rich with tradition and because of their devotion to the Torah their practices differ greatly to modern Christianity. However they are the religion that is not following their own laws not us. According to the Torah they should be stoning people and so forth. I’m sorry if you think I have an ego but I simply cannot stand by idle as I watch people pick and choose their own Buffett bible without actually understanding it. The concept of old and new covenant is something every Christian should know, I didn’t say that these people weren’t true Christians, I merely am holding all true Christians accountable to actually know simple truths of the bible before trying to offer ill informed opionions. It is our job to represent Christ. We RE-present Him in a correct light when others try to slander His word by telling people they should have stoned their wife if they were Christians. It’s irresponsible and if you want to let people lead others astray and by your “tolerance” entrap them into a false gospel then that blood is on your hands. There is nothing wrong for standing up for the Truth. I show genuine love towards all people but when they diliberatly slam the bible and attempt to mis interpret it’s text in order to paint a negative picture of my King forgive me if I develop a bit of righteous anger. He deserves more respect than that

Mortskab

Dude, you are on fire! Absolutely amazing comments. You have completely annihilated the opposing sides arguement!

jbear

Is that our goal? We want to annihilated people? You know, you can win an argument and lose an opportunity to witness to someone in love. In other words, you can win a war and lose the battle for one’s soul.

Legend Of Ben

thank you Trevor you are right on

Teresa Rowland

May God show you the light sister. Be blessed.

Blfstick

You say “Saying that those who don’t truly understand the Bible are not Christians?”

Sorry to break your bubble. You are mixing truth and false teaching in your replay. Today there are a multitude of False christians in the pews, in the pulpits and in Church offices throughout America. They claim that the Bible is unreliable and we should instead put our faith in a new gospel of this professor, that “theologian” or the the psychiatric Bible – DMSV-IV. The Bible warns us not to listen to these people. They are False Teachers …and they must be confronted before they lead others into Hell. Do you remember Jim Jones, the Grape Kool-Aid and the murder of 1,000 of his followers.

Matt 7:15-16
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
By their fruit you will recognize them.”

Matt 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

It is NOT for you to judge.

Wrong again. Christians are commanded to judge the behavior of other Christians many places in the New Testament. Christians are warned not to judge those who are NOT Christians. That domain is reserved to Christ himself.

Matt
18:15-17 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their
fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

I Cor 6:1-3 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

Admonishing others for their beliefs is also NOT your call.

See Matt 18:15-17 again …anyone who self justifies SIN by creating their “own” interpretation of the Bible MUST be confronted by the Church. I have seen all kinds of perversions of scripture by those who insist they are entitled to interpret the Bible for themselves. I have a friend who believes the Bible gives him the right to order his
wife around at his every whim …and if she doesn’t obey just right he has the right to discipline (i.e. punish) her.

We are all free to interpret the Bible as we see fit.

The Bible is not subjective. There is a meaning that God had in mind when He dictated it to the prophets and the apostles. Although the meaning is usually pretty clear to anyone who is under the the direction of the Holy Spirit – many people are using the Bible as a club to beat those around them into submission. The study of hermeneutics concentrates on discovering what the passage actually means.

Today people in the churches are saying that God declares to be sin is actually a “personal choice”…. and they are saying that when God says something is good they are saying that it is wrong.

Ignorance of God’s word is no excuse for following False Teachers. God will hold you personally responsible for following a False teacher. His word (the Bible) gives detailed instructions for recognizing false teachings. If you are will fully ignorant of the Bible and fall for an imitation gospel, you will pay the price. as we saw earlier, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” There are a lot of people who call themselves “Christian” who are going to be told “Depart from me, i never knew you! Yet you are saying I shouldn’t challenge someones false beliefs (the Bible is the only standard)…I should allow them to go merrily to hell – because the have the right to justify themselves by themselves?

Cristina

YOU ARE A TRUE KNOWLEDGABLE BLESSING!!!! GOD BLESS U ALWAYS!!!!

Teresa Rowland

Amen to that.

Myk Nelsen

Just to clue you in the NT was a loose translation written around 1380, later on that manuscript was used as kindling while burning John Hus. In the 1490’s another Oxford professor, and the personal physician to King Henry the 7th and 8th, Thomas Linacre, decided to learn Greek. After reading the Gospels in Greek, and comparing it to the Latin Vulgate, he wrote in his diary, “Either this (the original Greek) is not the Gospel… or we are not Christians.” The Latin had become so corrupt that it no longer even preserved the message of the Gospel… yet the Church still threatened to kill anyone who read the scripture in any language other than Latin… though Latin was not an original language of the scriptures.

In 1496, John Colet, another Oxford professor and the son of the Mayor of London, started reading the New Testament in Greek and translating it into English for his students at Oxford, and later for the public at Saint Paul’s Cathedral in London.

In considering the experiences of Linacre and Colet, the great scholar Erasmus was so moved to correct the corrupt Latin Vulgate, that in 1516, with the help of printer John Froben, he published a Greek-Latin Parallel New Testament. The Latin part was not the corrupt Vulgate, but his own fresh rendering of the text from the more accurate and reliable Greek, which he had managed to collate from a half-dozen partial old Greek New Testament manuscripts he had acquired. This milestone was the first non-Latin Vulgate text of the scripture to be produced in a millennium… and the first ever to come off a printing press. The 1516 Greek-Latin New Testament of Erasmus further focused attention on just how corrupt and inaccurate the Latin Vulgate had become, and how important it was to go back and use the original Greek (New Testament) and original Hebrew (Old Testament) languages to maintain accuracy… and to translate them faithfully into the languages of the common people, whether that be English, German, or any other tongue. No sympathy for this “illegal activity” was to be found from Rome… even as the words of Pope Leo X’s declaration that “the fable of Christ was quite profitable to him” continued through the years to infuriate the people of God.

William Tyndale wanted to use the same 1516 Erasmus text as a source to translate and print the New Testament in English for the first time in history. Tyndale showed up on Luther’s doorstep in Germany in 1525, and by year’s end had translated the New Testament into English. Tyndale had been forced to flee England, because of the wide-spread rumor that his English New Testament project was underway, causing inquisitors and bounty hunters to be constantly on Tyndale’s trail to arrest him and prevent his project. God foiled their plans, and in 1525-1526 the Tyndale New Testament became the first printed edition of the scripture in the English language. Subsequent printings of the Tyndale New Testament in the 1530’s were often elaborately illustrated.

Today, there are only two known copies left of Tyndale’s 1525-26 First Edition. Any copies printed prior to 1570 are extremely valuable.

Now again, you were saying what? When was your version of the Bible written? See, the just like you, I know in my heart what is right and what is wrong and can and will do my best to act on them. Whereas many people read this book and think it is actually what Jesus said. As I have said, I believe in God, but I also know that people will take something that is incredible and screw it up. Every damn time, and the Bible is one great example of that.

Your translated version of the NT came over 1500 years after Jesus, now look at how we speak now and how we spoke when your grandparents grew up. It was not that long ago, people from then are confused at much of the vocabulary we use today. Do you see the difference now?

Trevor Cressey

Honestly at this point in not even sure why I’m bothering with you. If you made any sense we could have an actual debate. But you my friend are what we call “all over the place.” But it is clear that you have mastered the art of “copy and paste” well done.

First of all, can you please explain to me why the translation of the New Testament from Greek to english has anything to do with the original debate of why it’s not correct to throw Old Testament verses at Christians when discussing how we are supposed to conduct ourselves? Clearly I was only addressing your earlier comment where you suggested that a man stone his wife because that’s what it says in the OT. So how we got to the Greek to english translation of the NT is completely out of the blue. Never the less I will gladly address the post.

Let me be perfectly clear that Latin is not the language of the bible the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. And for the Greek translation, have you ever heard of this little country? It’s called Greece. Interesting little place. One of the most astonishing things about this country is that they speak….. Greek. Imagine that? An entire country of people who can accurately translate the original biblical text even to this very day. Wow.

To further my point, when studying the bible it is more important, for those who really want to look at the text from a scholarly point of view, to understand the Greek translation because it often gives more meaning to the scripture. When really studying the bible you have several aspects that need to be considered. Jewish culture, politics of the time the text was written, and Greek translation. These three aspects paint a clear picture of the verse. This is one of the reasons that the scripture about the adulterous woman means so much. Because we understand what was to be done to her according to Jewish culture, a good stoning. However the pharisee’s and religious leaders were trying to trap Jesus. Because he was a jew they knew he would have stone the woman according to the law. But what Jesus does in that moment is brilliant. He exposes his divinity by forgiving the woman on the spot while at the same time embarrassing the religious leaders by calling out their sin in the most brilliant of ways. All this is to say that there are several aspects to be considered to really understand a verse or story in the bible.

Now regarding the modern translation of the english bible there is a good reason why it is modern and speaks our language. Ready for it…. It’s so we can understand it! Wow imagine that! Here is an example, since you chose to use the language of our grandparents I’ll follow suite. Let’s take a phrase from 60 or so years ago. Let’s say I walked up to you and said “don’t take any wooden nickels.” You would probably look at me funny. Because this is a common saying from the 1920’s and what it means is “don’t do anything stupid.” The reason it means that is because counterfeiting nickels was common at the time and people actually tried to pass of wooden nickels. And it would be widely accepted that you were stupid if you accepted such a falisy. This is the exact reason that the bible is translated into modern english! If we were supposed to disect the sayings, stories and language of old we would be totally confused! However thanks to the wonderful people of Greece, the little country remember, we can be assured that the text has been correctly translated and the meaning of the message has been portrayed properly. No modern Christian has any problem with the newer translations of the bible. Were actually elated about it because we can understand it in our modern terms!

So, like I said before. I’m not sure why I’m bothering with you at this point but I certainly will not stand by and let you attempt to mis inform or mis guide anyone regarding the King of Kings and His word. You know the bible addresses those who attempt to lead others astray. “It would be better for you to tie a milestone around your neck and toss it into the sea than to lead even one of my people astray” -Jesus Christ. So goooood luck with that oh and BOOM roasted. Go Jesus

Candy Kriegel

Gosh, I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way. Are you single!??
So refreshing to see a young man speak resounding TRUTH with knowledge, understanding, and wisdom! Painfully few that I can find.

Trevor Cressey

I am flattered. No it does not come across the wrong way at all. I can identify with your frustration because I am aware that most men will not stand up for the truth and submit to Christ in a real way. With that said, I am married but I will pray that you find an amazing man of God because you deserve it

Candy Kriegel

Thank you! I appreciate that very much!
I pray you and your wife have many joyous decades of marriage which glorify the Lord!

Myk Nelsen

Actually the OT was written in 3 different languages.

You said, “When really studying the bible you have several aspects that need to be considered. Jewish culture, politics of the time the text was written, and Greek translation. These three aspects paint a clear picture of the verse.” I just wanted you to read that again, you are trying to tell me that politics changes the meaning of the Bible? Hmmm, so we can just change it as we see fit then correct, to suit the politics of the time? Because that is exactly what you have said, that is when the book is translated.

Nice condescending attitude, I did think more highly of you and actually respected you a bit before that. See here is the problem that you fail to see with translating the book over and over and rewriting it to update it with the times. It is very much like that game you played in elementary school when the class sits side by side and the teacher says a little sentence to the first kid. By the time is gets to the last one, the whole sentence is different, do you really not see that?

I have no problem with people believing in the Bible that is fine, my biggest problem comes with those who want to actually base our laws on them. Here is part of the reason for that, it is because the punishment is not based on the Bible either. I do not call people names like bigot, if they feel that I am going to hell because I am gay. That is what they believe and I wish them luck in living their life, I just wish they would kept their nose out of mine. Now, what I react to is those who want to quote the Bible and the majority of times you will find the “Christians” trying to quote the OT about gays, so I throw it right back in their face. If you do not approve of that, then that is your problem not mine. Much like how I feel about the Bible, if I have the problem when it comes time, it is my problem, not yours.

I had a friend that I played rugby with and he claimed to be a born again Christian so he would never go to the parties with us after a match. He said the reason for not going is because of the temptation that was there. After months and months of him saying this I finally confronted him about it and told him that if he went there and he fell prey to his temptations then how strong was his conviction? At that time I had decided to abstain from sex due to my religious believes after attending an FCA camp (Fellowship of Christian Athletes). I was about 26 at this time, but 19 when I went to camp. I had also never drank alcohol before either. I did not have sex again until I was 40, so 21 year abstinence for my believes until I thought I found the one that I loved. And at the age of 47, I still have never had alcohol. Many of my teammates accepted faith and religion because they would look at me and see that I could have fun without falling prey to those temptations. Hmmmm, I guess living well instead of preaching well pays off too. May I quote you again, “Boom!” I hope you learned something.

Trevor Cressey

Yes. The political atmosphere helps us understand the meaning of scripture. If I were to say “Obama was wrong for releasing those terrorists” one would probably need the context of the political climate to understand that phrase. I really don’t understand your point. Every question you pose the answer is yes and it can be clearly explained. I’m sorry if you feel I am condescending. You really shouldn’t be attacking the bible though. I don’t care if your gay or strait. Your salvation is up to you. It’s between you and Jesus. And yes there were 2 prophecies that were written in Aramaic but 95% was written in Hebrew. You being gay has nothing to do with this debate. Jesus clearly states that He loves you and as far as monogomus homosexual relationships well that’s something you will have to figure our between you and the Holy Spirit. I live in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Seattle. One of the most prominent gay neighborhoods in the country. I have no problem with gay people nor do I choose to judge them. Each person is responsible to work out their own salvation . I wish you the best of luck with your journey but I can assure you that attacking the bible to build your case isn’t a good place to start. I’ll admit the bible is not clear on monogomus homosexual relationships. But let’s be honest that marriage is a constitution invented by the bible and is stated between a man and a woman. I don’t think gay couples shouldn’t have rights but I do wonder why traditional marriage is so important . Most gay people I know want nothing to do with the bible so the fact that they want a marriage is odd to me because it’s a biblical union. Anyway God bless ps. I mis spelled monogomus but I’m too tired to use spell check

Trevor Cressey

Oh and sorry the elementary school game theory doesn’t really hold merit because we have the original Greek text that can be read by people who speak Greek. So the kid who heard the teacher can literally go back to the first kid and compare notes. That’s how we know it’s still accurate. So that argument isn’t really valid. If it exist in Greek. And we have Greek speaking people. There is really nothing to argue. The Greek is the same as it was when written. The only way that point would hold validity is if every Greek speaking person on earth was lying to us. Highly un likely

The Correctness

Most people don’t care about the law as much, it’s more about being vilified by the mainstream (which is the leading factor in the decay of our society to begin with) for having a personal set of morals and line of thinking that was basically changed overnight with social engineering tactics. Fascinating to watch.

Anonymous

Old testament was originally in Hebrew, then translated later into Aramaic, and Greek (Septuagint)… By this logic, the new testament is written in hundreds of languages…
Also, I’m not sure if you’ve heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls, but they are a version of the OT that we still have that was written hundreds of years before Christ. The scrolls clearly prophesied of Christ to astonishing detail. What’s more is that the OT we have today is virtually unchanged from this version even though it was hidden away in caves for over 2,000 years. Goes to show you that when God is directing a message through the ‘game of telephone’ as you mentioned in your analogy, it will still be perfect because God is perfect and can do absolutely whatever He wants. He has all the power. He has the ability to protect a version of His word from the corruption of man.

James Dunlap

Myk, your data, while accurate, is not appropriated correctly. Here is some food for thought. There are over 4,000 Greek artifacts of original Greek manuscripts of the New Testament prior to 1200AD dating back to the early 2nd century. These are “original” in the sense that they are actual scribal copies of the text. Next, more that 95% of the entire new testament has been archived in commentaries and letters and commentaries writted by the early 2nd and 3rd century church fathers. All of these artifacts of the original Greek text are available and exist today. And guess what. They have all been compiled, compared, and studied rigourously by modern scholars who have concluded there is less that 5%variation in all streams of NT Greek manuscrips dating to the original autographs. At this time there are two or three major compilations of the Greek text, 1.) The Textus Receptus, which the King James and New King James version is based off of, 2.) The Critical text which NIV, NASB, and other modern texts are based off of, and 3.) The Majority text which is primarily an acedemic text used by schlars. In the case of the critical (Nestle Aland) and the Majority, these texts are accompanied by an aparatus which details the variations in various text streams and identifies the ancient codex where this variation occurs, and givesthe probable reason for the variation. Here is the conclusion of why I have presented this information: we can have confidence that the English Bible we read is a highly accurate rendering of the original manuscripts as penned by Matthew, Paul, Peter, John etc… Modern english Bible translations are not “1500 years and multiple translations” removed from the originals, they in fact, with extremely high probability and accuracy convey the intent of the original writings and are a single and direct translation, with over 95% accuracy, of the exact words penned by the original authors.

Myk Nelsen

And if the theological scholars find that what is written favors them, then it is correct and if they feel the interpretation favors them, then it is good.

Now let me explain something to you in laymen’s terms, a lawyer reads a law and works the words over to use it to the defense of his client. Though it is not the actual intention of the law. Now do you see a difference?

If you feel my information was not appropriated correctly, please explain to me how? Because I copied it directly from a public domain and never said it was my writing.

Blfstick

Exactly – You copied it directly from the rumor mill of the public domain and passed it off as a thoughtful intellectual presentation. several people have pointed out exactly what the errors are in process. They totally ignore the fact that almost the entire Bible has been confirmed to be entirely accurate by ancient fragments and secondary reference material from contemporary sources. You can pick and choose who you want to follow …the intellectual worshiping scholars who deny the possibility of any thing super natural or Jesus Christ himself. Me – I reading through the Bible for the 4th or 5th time …and one thing i have discovered. This book was written by hundreds of men across 6,000 years of human history. Only the hand of God could have produced the miraculous integrity of these 66 books.

Danial chapter 9 was written 600-700 years before the birth of Christ ….If you do the calculations in that chapter you arrive at the exact day that Jesus rode into Jerusalem in triumph being hailed by the locals as the King of the Jews.
This passage is so precise that I have been told Jewish seminary students are forbidden to do the calculations …because there is no mistaking the fact that Jesus fulfilled that prophecy to the day.
However, the truth has been hidden from you. The Bible makes it clear that those who do not approach the the scripture with fear/reverence will not understand or believe what they read. No amount of intellectual argument, scientific discussion or out right bickering will ever get you to the truth.
Good Luck!

D.Colcord

I just want to weigh in on a couple comments: 1) Is it beneficial to read scripture in its language of origin? Certainly, but most of us are not experts in Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, and classical Greek. Thankfully, various translations of the Bible were put together as a collaboration of scholars who do/did know these languages. The Authorized Version (King James version) is one such translation, but most, if not all, modern translations were put together in this way. However, I must also point out to Trevor that classical Greek and modern Greek are not the same. You cannot take a random Greek person off the street and hand him a copy of The New Testament in Greek and expect them to flawlessly translate the text. 2) The Bible in its current form/translation has been checked, over and over again in multiple studies, for its accuracy compared to earlier versions, primarily from texts written in the language of origin, and has been found to be the most accurate literary text to date. It is considered more accurate than Shakespeare’s plays when you compare the different versions of each, yet most scholars do not consider Shakespeare’s plays to be wildly different from their “original” published or performed texts. James is correct in this. 3)The “political atmosphere” of the period and culture is part of the larger historical context which yes is necessary in most cases to understand or interpret texts from history. Historical context matters of which political atmosphere is only a part. If you want to understand symbolism, metaphor, analogy, motivations of people, or various historical and cultural references within a work then you need to understand the historical context. This is nothing new. Literary scholars have understood this for years as have our colleagues in History and Social Sciences.

Temma

The 1st copies of the NT were written on lead tablets and have been dated to have been written around 300 ad (some even older than that). The Bedouins have been finding them dotted around their lands for the last 40 years or so. The writings on those tablets supports what we read today. There are pictures on the covers of Jesus in a boat or a bust of him.

Also, the NT wasn’t only written in Greek. Not all of the writers knew Greek. Some are written in Yiddish.

Quibbling over such details completely deters from the validity of God’s word. The wonderful and amazing thing is that our Living God is able to give modern day people the ability to look at these older texts and put His word into understandable contexts for today’s culture.

The bigger point is that every word of His Word speaks to us all differently at different seasons of our lives. Splitting hairs and arguing over dates and translations is not a good way to find the path God has made for any of us.

As for the issue of being gay, Jesus Himself says its better to be a denizen of Sodom than to be a denizen of Tyre. Meaning its better to be gay and living in sin than it is to receive the Word and reject it or misuse it. That is NT scripture, that’s part of the “red word” writings, which are the most important words in the NT as they are the words of God.

One of my favorite quotes from a billboard in front of a local church is, “Love covers a multitude of sins.” Jesus met people where they were. I think its one of the most important lessons to learn from Him in terms of outreach and daily interactions. It seems to me that Joel Osteen gets that, and that is the lesson we should all be taking from what he was saying in the interview.

Mortskab

Check mate! That was awesome Trevor! I did a huge fist pump in the air after reading your response!

Joran

Realistically, can any of us know anything, by that standard? Like can you really tell me anything about America’s history since you probably haven’t seen the very first historical texts with your own eyes? Can anyone make any valid claims about ancient Greece or Rome or whatever else if they haven’t read the earliest forms of documentation from whatever given day?

And yes, Jesus was born Jewish. I don’t think that implies whatever you seem to think it does, though?

Myk Nelsen

Well, seeing that American history was written in English, yes I can, because I can read English.

“And yes, Jesus was born Jewish. I don’t think that implies whatever you seem to think it does, though?” What you have written is not a question, it is a statement. So it would end with a period not a question mark. Please read the thread before you jump in and make a statement that makes no sense. Thank you though for your time.

Thank you very much for the article, but that was concerning the Old Testament, and as I am very sure you have been following the thread, that means pretty much nothing to them. Because they follow the NT and think that the OT is close to worthless.

Anonymous

I thought the article in this link did a great job in explaining the 3 types of laws found in the old testament – ceremonial laws, cultural laws and moral laws, how they are different, and how and when they apply. Since it starts out with the homosexual question it applies perfectly to the discussion here:

Interesting article and thank you for that. Now, if you believe the article then you disagree with Mr. Trevor Cressey, who stated, “Christians are not called to follow laws. Not even the 10 commandments! Sounds crazy right? But that’s because the 10 commandments are covered in these two laws given to us by Jesus: love The Lord with all your heart, love your neighbor as yourself” that IS the 10 commandments! And so much more! Real believers understand exactly what I’m saying.”

So which is it?

Trevor Cressey

Ugh. It’s really simple but let me try to explain it in really simple terms. The disciples asked Jesus “which is the most important commandment?” Of course they were speaking of the 10 commandments. Jesus replied: “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

So this means that these two commandments from Jesus sums up the law. So I’ll break it down for you but only with a few examples because my hands are cramping and I feel as though I’m talking to the wind:

Thou shall not murder.
Would you murder your neighbor?
Thou shall not steal
Would you steal from your neighbor?
Thou shall not worship idols
Can you worship idols if you love The Lord with all your heart?
Thou shall not lie
Would you lie to your neighbor, or yourself?

You see it’s very simple. The law was established. Here’s what you should and shouldn’t do and blah blah blah

Jesus came: “hey guys! I know you obeyed the law the best you could but I am establishing a new way! It’s called love your neighbor as yourself! Good luck!”
So Jesus both fulfilled the law and then he made it more simple to understand yet in my opinion more difficult to actually follow. Got it?

Myk Nelsen

You should be discussing this one with Donna not me, you said the OT was not used, she is backing that it is good, at least parts of it. Deal with her on this one buddy.

nwhustin

I am copying and pasting but trying to address your question Myk

This may be an oversimplification, but truly, it’s the best answer I have for this.

Moral Law deals with our relationship to God and to our fellow man. Moral law can all be traced back to Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV quoted below)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Take any of the laws and trace it back to the obvious purpose, and you can see what is moral law, what is civil law, and what is ceremonial law.

For example:

the Ten commandments, including thou shalt not Kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet… All of these have to do with showing love toward our fellow people. If we love someone we will not kill them, steal from them, or covet their things. If we love God, we will have no other gods before Him, we will not bow down to idols.

Civil law deals with things like establishment of guilt, proper punishment for offenses. It’s easily recognizable as similar to our own civil laws.

Ceremonial law would include such things as the dimensions of the temple, the colors of the robes for certain priests, etc.

Candy Kriegel

Yes, Christ was born Jewish, but the Old Testament is crucial for history and understanding everything we can about who God is, what He has done for us, how He did it, why He did it, what He’ll do next, etc.
Do we destroy all documentation of past laws or history when the laws change or when that history is “far away enough”? Of course not.
Furthermore, to some extent or another, you have to have an element of faith in God that what He wants to be put on paper is put down on paper.
You claim it is because of the folly of man, but you don’t think our God is big enough to keep His book coherent and true to the message?

Myk Nelsen

Yes, we do destroy old and antiquated laws. Let’s look at prohibition. It was a law and done away with.

I have no problem with people believing in the Bible that is fine, but do you think that all of the people that have done the translating were guided by God? If you do, good luck, but if you are realistic you will say, no.

Now your last paragraph I will answer with this question, if God is so powerful and perfect and can control the rewriting of the Bible, do you think that he controls wether we are LGBT or not? I personally do not think God makes mistakes.

Blfstick

That just shows massive ignorance. The major translations of the Bible are incredibly accurate compared to any antiquated text. In addition Greek was NOT the original language for most of the New Testament. There is a higher number of disputed passages in the works of William Shakespeare than there are in the Bible. The language spoken by Christ and his disciples was Aramaic – not Greek!

The Old Testament is vital to the support of the New Testament. 700 years before Jesus was born Isaiah said predicted that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem

Isaiah 9:6-7

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

“Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”

also 700 years before the birth of Christ:

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Altough we, as Christians, may not under the Law of the Mosaic Covenant …Jesus said, John 14:21 “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.”

The 10 Commandments ARE still in effect as God’s standard of behavior. Those who are NOT Christians ARE still under the condemnation of the Law (10 Commandments). They are also still in effect for Christians …IF they love Jesus/imwwith ALL of their heart, with ALL their mind, with AL their soul, with all their strength, They will obey the commands of Christ which go far beyond the ten Commandments of old!

Charlie Hinson

Myk…I can read Greek and took three years worth of it at a Lutheran College. God has watched over His word and the written word in English is an excellent translation from the Greek! I prefer using a particular translation for it’s word for word translation but there is agreement among all genuine translations concerning basic doctrine. 20,000 manuscripts of the New Testament alone proves the authenticity of the Bible. Once again I read the bible in Greek and find the English translation better for me because it is both extremely accurate and I understand it much easier.

mark W

well said!

rickmcknight

Absolutely true Trevor. People do not understand those facts. Particularly if they know nothing about the bible.

God’s child

Where does anyone’s “Faith” come into play? Have to see with your own eyes?? R u kidding me? Doubting thomas…just saying.

Candy Kriegel

Thomas believed when he said he would, but most that claim they are a doubting Thomas would never believe, even if Jesus showed up on their doorstep.

Vickie Gann Peckron

And again I say Amen.

Victoria Coots

Great response.

Adam Jenson

Actually the stoning was due to lying in a court of law.

Janette

When Jesus came in the form of a man, His doing so did away with the LAW of the OT. You need to read all of the Bible, not just bits and pieces as so many do. That’s why it is almost, and I say almost, impossible for anyone to have a decent conversation concerning the love that Jesus has for all mankind.

Myk Nelsen

I agree with you, but the problem is that people want to take little bits here and there and try to preach. So I will do the same to them. Apparently that offends many people, hmmmm, how do you think the rest of us feel.

God is a huge part of my life, but I just like every other person, have many, many faults. I judge on many things that are stupid, but I don’t judge who is a sinner and profess to know all sins either.

Temma

I didn’t see anyone taking bits and pieces of anything. In Isaiah it is written that God has written His laws on our hearts, making way for Jesus to fulfill the Law. God says that he is making the 10 Commandments a side note because we already know what is just and true, the need is no longer there for them.

Perhaps I’m not understanding what you’re trying to say?

Forgotten Vet

So what about Matthew chapter 5 verses 17,18, &19?

Robert Zendejas

The decision to levy a charge is up to the person it’s not necessarily
automatic. The prophet Nathan fell in love with and married a prostitute.
The Lord did not tell Nathan to condemn or abandon her.
He ordered Nathan to sell the contents of his home to secure and redeem her.
Never once was her not being a virgin, or her serial adultery brought up.
Much as the grand matriarch of the line of David was a former prostitute.
Yes, an ancestor of Yeshua was a prostitute.
When Joshua razed Jericho, she was the only citizen
allowed to live. She married one of Joshua’s generals,
the rest is history.

Paul Allen

WOW! You don’t mean to get personal??? What an obnoxious statement to then make about his wife! What do you know about who he married? And disgusting to think that you would even bring this into the discussion. I trust that you ask God as well as Larry for forgiveness.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

Is that what you tell your Pastor as well? Until you are perfect, stop preaching? As an ordained pastor myself, I find your words and advice pretty ignorant.

Russell Banton

know your bible. The stoning was before the New Covenant of Christ. Christ himself rejected it. Again, please please please learn ALL God told us in the bible.

Victoria Coots

God already judged sin in His Holy Word. When we point out sin in the lives of other, in the hopes they will repent and be spared Hell’s damnation, that is not us judging, as God has already enumerated and judged sin in the Bible. You are speaking of Old Testament times. When Christ died on the cross for our sins, many Old Testament practices were no longer necessary. Asking us not to cast the first stone did not mean that we do not try to get our fellow man/woman to repent of their sins (which the Bible has clearly enumerated). We do not control the final outcome of their lives, God does. We are also called in the Word of God to obey man’s laws, as well as God’s laws in Romans Chapter 13.

jbear

Unless you are Jewish and under the law, this is not what Christians are subjected to.

John Scott

Good point, and obviously abstaining from sex before marriage has long been rejected by many very good Christians. Sorry, even the best Christians are not always good people. As my Parents said, its not what you do on Sunday but what you do the other 6 days that proves your worth.

san

I AGREE!

John Scott

You missed the point, not everyone wants to learn. Give a person the ability to read, does not mean they will read. Preach about sinning is bad and that you will go to hell. Does not mean they will listen. Because you want it changed, does not mean it will change.

suzyshopper

That is not true that a Christian should not concern themselves with someone else’s sin, even the apostles said we were not to keep company with any believer that is unrepentant, that we were too admonish them privately, if that didn’t work, then bring it before the church, and ultimately excommunicate them.Even the apostles had something too say too a sinnng Christian, not only that,God will hold us responsible for leading one of his sheep astray.

Vanessa Allen

You are absolutely right. Took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you for posting this and clearing up that matter.

elena

You have a clean conscience?

Diane

Jesus walked among sinners, who are the ones who needed His influence, His example. Jesus left all the “end results” of the response to Him by the sinners up to His Father. Walk into the fire…..with the reassurance that those are who need to hear the Truth, and then leave it at that. God will deal with the “end result”. All that excommunication stuff is man-made and not of The Lord.

Janette

No, excommunication is not man-made. The Bible says that if a believer sees another fellow believer sin, we are to speak with that person about it, and if that person turns a deaf ear, then we are to go with 2 or more to speak with that person about it. Then, if that does nothing, we are to turn from that person until he realizes that he/she was in fact sinning.

Karen

so very true..suzyshopper..I have been told that I am being judgmental..discriminatory. a bigot,etc..because that I speak against something that I know is a sin according to the Bible..there are so many people who have never been to a church or read the Bible..so how are they supposed to know what they are doing is wrong or how to be saved? if we do not tell them..Jesus commanded us to witness to the world..I know that I am not perfect and sin every day..but I pray every day and ask for forgiveness for my sins and try not to repeat that sin..but silence in the face of evil is itself evil..God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak..Not to act is to act..

Janette

The Bible is very clear about this: what is a sin to one, may not be a sin to another, therefore, we are not to do anything that they perceive as a sin so as not to lead them astray

Janette

Christian believers should concern themselves with the sins of other fellow believers, not the sins of everyone else. Other than that, you are correct.

Linda Creech

true Jojo, the Lord will handle the gays himself when they stand before him.

Kimberly Kathaleen King

I agree with your rebuttal as I have answered above. God loves us regardless and he knows us better than we know ourselves.

Linda

exactly right

Mike Nelson

People misuse the term tolerance so egregiously.

It is for God to deal with sin, because sin is removal from God. This is an innately personal fact, and judgment of others over perceived sins – even when factual – fails to abide the biblical province of “judge not.”

While we must all be discriminating in our rectitude, we must also be circumspect in our vision and of our own behavior, or we become the Pharisees who wanted to kill Jesus for healing on the Sabbath, because it broke their earthly rules.

Jesus didn’t come here to save the devout, He came here and walked with the sinners. God works through the weak and the sick, and He compels us to love our enemies.

It’s not accepting sin to love a prostitute or a satanist; but it is sinful to BE one… just as it’s sinful to levy upon others the massive judgment of one’s own vision of righteousness, over God’s Plan for each person’s life.

Without sin and its consequences, I, at least, would not have found God.

Judi

Thank you, Mike, for a godly perspective. You didn’t point any fingers except to the One on whom we must focus. He’s the One who will judge us.

Mike Nelson

You created an account just to reply to me, and now I am your first ^… an illustration of support, reciprocity, and fellowship in action!

God bless!

Anonymous

If you keep reading the passage after ‘judge not that you be not judged’ in Matthew 7, that so many misquote, you come to the meaning: “first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye”… Also, in John 7:24 “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” … We are not called to be hypocrites, but to be witnesses of the truth and to judge when it is righteous to do so. We must take care of our own transgressions first, but afterwards we are free to help others to notice their transgressions of the law. Sin is sin, no matter how you spin it. No one will be better off if they continue to sin under the banner of tolerance.

Mike Nelson

Fair, and true… but ultimately it is our active sins that cause us to seek God, when we tire of the stumbling blocks, and this requires humility and maturity, traits that are typically gained only through experience.

God gives us the tools to find Him, but only He can turn those stumbling blocks to stepping stones.

As imperfect as I am, I’ll be happy when I have *only* a speck remaining in my eye

Janette

Exactly!!!

Anonymous

“For by grace your are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Mike Nelson

And James 2:17 tells us:

“Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.”

God saves those who save themselves.

God bless, friend.

Anonymous

‘That’ refers to the faith which is given to us, is not of yourselves. Works are a result of salvation, not a payment for salvation. If faith was of ourselves, then one might have a claim of saving yourself, but because it is not of us, but of God, God is the only savior. Dead faith is no real faith at all. If there is no regeneration, there is no salvation. If anyone relies on their own work of ‘saving themselves’, they are relying on something that can never pull through for them.

Janette

I, for one, will not go around looking for other peoples’ sins. However, I will not judge others, that is Gods’ job in the coming judgement.

ca in texas

Well said

Joey Wilson

People who r homosexual have become what god has allowed of their own desires just like people who have sex before marriage its all perverted we r made in the image of god and becuz ppl have their on (will) they will do whatsoever to their own desire GOD SAID THAT IF U CONTINUE TO DENY HIS WORD HE’LL GIVE.UR MIND OVER TO WHAT U DESIRE therefore u’ll have ppl having sex b4 marriage,homosexuality, murderers, robbers, jealousy, hatred, envy,and anything thats against the order of what god requires from us we r the highest level of life on earth but we’re the most confused level of life compared to animals at least they do know the difference in the sexes and they keep the order by which they where made so ull never see 2 male lions getting married ,having sex which each other or for matter any homosexual nature between them BUT HUMANS SAY WE GOT ALL THE SENSE,,,,,REALLY PPL?

heather

Lions, really? Your ridiculous. And before you start comparing human marriage to that of animals (though this comparison is absolutely ridiculous) you should do a little research. The Animal Kingdom you are referring to is full of nearly 1500 species that practice homosexuality. The list is large and covers everything from lizards, rattlesnakes, cattle, chimpanzees, dolphins–and I hate to break it to you fella–but your beloved LIONS that you quoted as “keeping the order of things–you would never see two lions getting married or having sex”. Yea, those same lions are one of the most common animals to portray and practice homosexuality. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WILL YOU IGNORANT PEOPLE DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE YOU ADD RIDICULOUS COMMENTS ABOUT SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

GOD DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES–RIGHT? He made gay people and animals–GET OVER IT ALREADY!

This page does document that this type of behavior has existed for sometime. It doesn’t state that it is ok. The Bible is very clear on its stance on this subject of homosexuality.

The story of creation in the Bible clearly starts with a Man and a Woman. (Book of Genesis in the Bible)

After the first sin which you can find in Genesis, the other sins soon followed.

Murder did not exist in the original creation. Murder happened after the first sin. The first recorded murder in the history of mankind was between Cain and Abel.

You can see clearly each sin and its first recordings happening in the Bible.

Sin is sin and the Bible is very clear about what is Sin, it is not for me to judge because God is the only being that will do that job ultimately.

We have a merciful God that forgives our sins when we repent of our sins and ask forgiveness.

Tina Riley

LEVITICUS CHAPTER 20 VERSE 13- If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

Janette

Mike, you are so correct!! I only wish that other “Christians” would be able to understand what you say, without nit picking!!!

Mike Nelson

Thank you for your support; I, too, wish it were easier to speak about God, rather than about religion and doctrine. We could agree on SO much more, and so easily!

If Satan’s best trick was to convince us that he does not exist, human pride is the progeny of that endeavor.

Billy Smith

Christ has given me the mission to bring his salvation, grace and undying love to ALL!! Who am I to judge another’s sin? I have never been called into the game to pinch hit for Gods judgement. He tells me to seek and love those far from his love. Gods mission for Christians would be easier if judgmental zealots did not judge. I do not condone gay marriage or homosexuality one bit, but anyone that knows me as a Christian already knows that. I don’t need to scream at the world about what I don’t believe in. God tells me to yell from the highest mountain that I believe in him.

Janette

Exactly!!

Wyndle

I was thinking of a response to Linda Then I read yours Larry I will just Agree I could not respond Better.

Anonymous

Larry, excellent response to Linda. Kindness and support to help others overcome sin is the Christian way to support others. Acceptance and unconditional tolerance is Satan’s way.

san

GOOD JOB AND AMEN!

Vickie Gann Peckron

Amen

Victoria Coots

Great response Larry. Spoken in love AND truth.

jbear

Dear Larry, I agree with all you say. I just wonder if it would be more readily accepted if you were to add more love to it.

John Scott

People sin every day. Does not mean your forced to accept this as right? Its troubling for some to think we are failing in faith as sins abound. But your only concern for entry into heaven or hell is your own actions and beliefs. Others sins won’t condemn you to hell.

Linda Wilson

I just don’t think it’s right to hate people. A gay person has his or her struggles, and we each have our own. I am not perfect.

ScaryLogic

There’s no way that statistic is accurate.

Michael Massey

Linda, you are absolutely correct that sex outside a marriage is sin, but what does that have to do with NOT saying gay marriage is a sin ?? The thing is this, both are wrong and one should not condone one over the other. You can’t use the “mind your own business” tripe when gays force their business onto everybody else. You can’t justify homosexuality , it is a sin . As a Christian , you either try to keep from sinning or stop claiming to be a Christian. You can’t be a Christian and do anything you want , that hypocrisy never was true .

Linda Wilson

I’m saying that I think people who think they are without sin should throw the first stone.

DonnaS.

It’s also wrong regardless if 99.9% of people have sex before marriage. God’s word says its wrong…. This is what is wrong with society today: there is no one willing to stand up for what God’s word says. It doesn’t matter what we think….

Anonymous

How about just stopping your sinning and repenting.

Mike Nelson

That is almost like giving counsel to stop breathing.

Even sinners can do God’s will, and good works, and have faith, and it’s a good thing, too, because sin is removal from God, which means we all live in sin… but only while we breathe.

Oscar Llanio

Its a shame we call ourselves Christian and continue living how we please. The Bible says clearly by there fruits you shall know them. Tolerance is nothing more than an excuse for sin. You can’t ride the fence with God.

Mike Nelson

Indeed, by their fruits you shall know them, but also, a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree, good fruit.

If we are to strive for godliness in a life free from sin, and God gave us free will, how then can I strive for oneness with Him when I do other than He does?

Of what use to God is my flawed judgment? Of far greater value, I think, is the development of an attitude of love and forgiveness, and rectitude in the evaluation of my behavior toward God’s will.

In my opinion, that is a decisively off-the-fence perspective, but judgment of others always puts you on the fence, tottering near to self-righteousness, and ready to fall at any sleight to one’s own pride.

Janette

Exactly!! Keep telling the truth of God’s Word, the Holy Bible. If you turn even one person from a life of evil, it will be worth all the negatives that others throw at you!!

Anonymous

I was thinking of one particular sin that causes the devil to have a place in the life…the besetting sin..Do we want Jesus or do we want that sin? That is the question…We can not stop all our sins but be can stop some and we should. Grace is not a license to sin….

Mike Nelson

That is a fascinating concept; we can’t live perfectly, but we can each address our own greatest failing in a spirit of both self-improvement and sacrifice. I think you’re dead-on in regard to Grace not being a license to sin!

The greater a place any aspect of the world-at-large has in our lives, the greater (and more worthy) the sacrifice in giving it over – whether sinful or not. Such is the nature of a fast, daily worship, and devotion to learning the Word, amongst other pursuits and sacrifices.

In regard to this thread however, I remain of the opinion that a spirit of judgment over others can so very easily become a besetting sin, since it puts one of a mind to be on par with God in His judgment. At what point does one recognize a tendency toward self-righteousness?

Ultimately, of what use to God is my judgment of another? If we are to love the sinner (including/especially ourselves!) and hate the sin, does it matter how big the sin is, or does it matter how big we are in God’s spirit of love?

Good post!

Anonymous

There are many difficult areas in our faith. We look through the glass darkly and do not see face to face as yet. I don’t believe the unclean spirit of homosexuality can dwell in the body along with the Holy Spirit….When we accept Christ, we become a new creature..
.Each must decide on his or her beliefs. As I walk through this world I recognize the unclean spirit in individuals and they do not have to say a word…I just know…I don’t have all the answers. I know the work of deliverance is in my future…
We come to Christ as we are, but then changes occur. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. We cannot control our emotions but we do not have to act on them etc.

Linda Wilson

You think you live without sin? That is part of the problem. We are ALL sinners.

Anonymous

I do not live without sin. We all sin…But we need to stop any major sin. I do not willingly sin…

Robert Bob Wilson

99.9%??? You seem to ignore those who fully understand the meaning of the term “self-control.” NOT a foreign concept, not a worn out value, a relevant one to this day. Place any value into the stupidity of situational ethics, and we are deep trouble.

Linda Wilson

I haven’t taken a survey…I’m not sure of the percent.

Linda Creech

I believe the subject at hand is about gays, not whether one has sex outside of marriage.

Linda Wilson

I thought the subject was sin and judgemental people.

Anonymous

Linda, are you speaking from personal experience? If so, you have been very busy.

It so happens that a fairly substantial percentage of young people (both men and women) are virgins when they marry, including my three daughters and two sons. And these marriages are on average much happier and successful than those in which both the marriage partners are very “experienced” before they wed.

I am 65 years old, and never in my entire life have I heard anyone tell me that having sex outside of marriage did them good, but I have heard scores of unbelievably sad stories from individuals who have had sex outside of marriage who have suffered horribly with disease, unwanted pregnancies, broken hearts, and broken families.

God did not tell us not to have sex outside of marriage because He doesn’t want us to have any fun. He did so to protect us and to help us find peace and joy, not only in this life but also in the one to come.

Linda Wilson

The point I was trying to make was that a sin is a sin. I am not endorsing premarital sex. I just don’t like all the hate towards certain sinners.

Preature

Linda, What is your verifiable source for 99.9%? Christians have One objective Source to point to that states what is and/or is not sin. The 99.9% argument is a fallacy and has no basis or verifiable source and is used as an excuse to sin for some weak “so called brother.” We must be more careful with our words for “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.”
Words represent our thoughts as Christ, The eternal Word, victoriously represents His Father’s thoughts on what is and/or is not sin. He represented His Father’s thoughts upon grace, repentance, forgiveness, and love; when one uses the 99.9% fallacy it demonstrates one’s argument is based upon one’s own history or emotions which necessitates the invalidation of one’s argument. Argument without an outside and verifiable objective truth is just vapour that is hear and gone. Let us all be careful with our words as they reveal our own histories and the depth of our demonstrative knowledge about that which we speak..

Linda Wilson

I’m sorry my guess was offensive.

Robert Zendejas

Heterosexual promiscuity doesn’t carry a death penalty.
In addition, if they were content with keeping their filth to themselves
that would be one thing. But they want it to be publicly accepted, as well
as taught to kids that its normal. That is leading His little ones astray
and causing them to stumble. You are aware of His warning regarding
that yes? No?

JohnQ

Correct. The militant gay movement isn’t about “tolerance”, which homosexuals enjoy in copious amounts here in the US. What they are after is government mandated acceptance and even promotion. They attempt to silence anyone who disagrees with them. It is a fascist political movement based on a chosen behavior.

Linda Wilson

The wages of sin is death. Not certain or specific sins, right?

rickmcknight

99.9 %? Where did you find this wonderful statistic. How can you be so accurate? Crystal ball?

Linda Wilson

I grabbed it out of the air. I was trying to say that we all sin.

JohnQ

Clearly a ridiculous statement of rationalizing sin. 99.9% of people do not have sex before marriage. There’s no statistical study that says anything close to that being the case.

Linda Wilson

100 percent of us sin.

adam

more like 40% of americans and like 10% of the entire world

Biff Jones

Awesome! I always wanted to be part of the top .1%

Victoria Coots

Yes, for all have sinned a come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23. But, to gloss over any sin, allowing a small faction of people within society to force sin down the rest of our collective throats is not right. We must stand against all sin as Christians. Our culture is reaping what we have sown, a spiral into almost complete immorality. We have been hearing more about the love, mercy and grace of God, which no doubt is who He is, but the Bible also tells us that He is a God of wrath and vengeance. We have a duty to point out when our brothers and sisters in Christ or those who have not accepted Christ are in sin, and pray for them to repent.

Linda Wilson

Be prepared for them to point out your sins to you then.

jbear

Your statement is very PC, but it’s not Biblical. Part of what what happens when a person becomes a Christian is that they love other people in a new way. Love is telling unsaved people that they need Jesus in order to go to heaven. It’s not about putting them down, it’s about telling them the truth in love so that they will know the truth. God cannot forgive anyone their sins unless they repent.

Linda Wilson

What is biblical is that we sinners are not called to judge others. We are supposed to love all people, not pick apart the sins we think are worse than our own. The price of each forgiven sin was Jesus’ death on the cross.

Charlotte DeHart

He will only forgive your sins if you ask Him and accept that His Son died on the cross for our sins and rose again.

Anonymous

99.9% where do you get that statistic? That is not true. I know many people who didn’t have sex before they were married. Just because it is the norm and people believe it- doesn’t make it true. Don’t believe the media and television that make it look like 99.9%. More people wait then you think. And what country your focusing on, may also make a difference in your assumption. Perhaps you come from and live in a promiscuous area. Think pre-Clinton and remember when America expressed values.

Linda Wilson

Sorry – the percentage is just my estimate. My point was that we are all sinners, and we shouldn’t judge someone else’s sin or make assumptions of guilt.

Patricia Carter-Thompson

according to this passage no one will inherit the kingdom of god.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

Wrong, Patricia. Those who are saved by the Grace of God through the blood sacrifice of Jesus will be saved. The passage above refers to non-repentant continual sinners.

ScaryLogic

So you have to be christian to go to heaven?

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So…..that would be a yes.

ScaryLogic

So, the best, most charitable Buddhist in the world is going to hell?

Seems to me there would need to be degrees for this sort of thing.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

Unless they receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, again, that would be yes.

Jesus did not say “no man cometh unto the Father, but by me…..unless you are the best, most charitable Buddhist in the world.”

ScaryLogic

Child raping priest that “repented” > than any non christian… got it

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

Well, SL, I am sorry you do not like it. But, then again, I did not write it. I suggest you take it up with Jesus, who stated it. The key word here is “repented”. If they actually did.

Sheena L

I’m talking about those who are going to heaven. Once Christ returns he’ll take those who are born again/saved then the grace administration will be finished, then Revelations begins; there is judgement during that period.

Anonymous

Scary, is your reason for scorning someone who repents that you are under the impression that repentance is easy? Because it is definitely NOT easy.

ScaryLogic

Is you reason for damning someone of another faith based completely out of ignorance?

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

SL, the only one who can Damn anyone is God the Father. No one here has even attempted to state otherwise. You again stated a key word…”Faith”. My faith is in Jesus and His teachings. If your faith is otherwise, then that is a choice you have to make. These statements are not made through ignorance, but through the Word of God passed on through the Bible. If you choose not to accept it, then you have made your choice. It is not for me or any other Christian to “convert” you. We can only speak the truth as told by Jesus and His Apostles. From there it is up to you and the Holy Spirit to accept it…..or not.

Ken

Could not have said it better. Amen.

suzyshopper

It is a persons own sin that damns them.

Anonymous

Scary, I believe that because God is just and that He loves all of us, He has a plan to give everyone who has or will ever live the opportunity to learn of Christ and decide if they want to accept Him.

Csa in AZ

Please share your faith with us ScaryLogic. I would just like to understand where you are coming from and why all of your posts are more emotional rather than factual.

Zachary Pitts

When you repent you leave that sin behind. If this “child-raping priest” TRULY repented he would have left that behind.

Vanessa Allen

That’s the point, repentance. No sin is bigger than any other. Sin is sin. You have sinned, just like all of us, and you too can repent and be saved.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

AMEN and AMEN!

ScaryLogic

No sin is bigger than another? Interesting….

Anonymous

A child raping priest would be an example of someone who isn’t ACTUALLY a Christian UNLESS he asks for forgiveness for his sins. Salvation is merely the acknowledgement of the fact that we cannot save ourselves, we need God’s grace.

Victoria Gibson

Just because you park yourself in the garage does not mean you are a car. Like wise, just because you go to church doesn’t mean you are a Christian.

ScaryLogic

XD

sorry, your analogy gave me a funny visual because of the subject at hand.

Bellagirl

and your point is?

Csa in AZ

ScaryLogic seems like maybe you have been hurt or wrongd by someone that was in a place of ministry? The Bible doesn’t condone that kind of behavior by any means.

But yes if this person repented of their Sin, turned away from their sin, and sinned no more. They are forgiven.

God’s grace and forgiveness is there for anyone and everyone.

Even the biggest sinner you could imagine.

That is the most amazing thing about God is his grace and forgiveness.

This doesn’t mean that we can say sorry and just continue doing the same thing or continuing in our sin…. That would’nt fly with an earthly father so we shouldn’t expect that to fly with our Heavenly Father.

ScaryLogic

No, I wasn’t, I was just bringing up an extreme example for argument’s sake.

Anonymous

He that has the son has life but he that does not have the son, does not have life…period…Jesus is the only way!!!

guest1

Heaven is not a place that we get to by our works…best actions. That is a purely human concept that negates the very nature of God. think of it this way….as a parent, which is a better demonstration of your love for your child….doing something for them that they can’t do, or telling them they have to work at it until they can get finally do it? Being in the very presence of God,the creator of the universe, is not something that our own human actions can do….God is way tooooooo big for that.

ScaryLogic

So, what about the scripture that says “faith without works is dead”

Are you implying God would not have set up a way for both to exist and be meaningful? Your example of a parent and child is more akin to doubting God than anything I said.

Anonymous

Faith and works operate together. Doing good works, following God’s commandments and helping others–which God expects of us–builds and increases our faith, but we can NEVER do enough to gain salvation. We must have faith in and rely on Christ and the sacrifice He made for us or we cannot be saved. It is only possible because of Him.

suzyshopper

See the problem with that way of thinking is, that from a human viewpoint, u think that sounds rational. But from Gods view point ,he basically says, I made u I make the rules, that about covers it

Vanessa Allen

You are not right with God by doing good works, you are saved by your faith in Jesus Christ based on the belief that he gave HIS life so that YOURS might be saved.

Anonymous

There are degrees of punishment in Hell, but all sinners will have their part in the lake of fire… The only hope is in the finished work of Christ. What you are proposing is works righteousness, a.k.a. bribery. You cannot pay for your sin or transgression of the law through ‘good works’. Our good deeds are as filthy rags unto God… That is our state without Jesus.

Stephanie Beltz-Price

Yes you do have to be a Christian. You have to accept the Lord as you Savior to forgive you of your sins.

ScaryLogic

Well, that’s pretty crappy.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

I will say again…..SL, I am sorry you do not like it. But, then again, I did not write it. I suggest you take it up with Jesus who stated it.

ScaryLogic

No, you just embrace it and believe it, and honestly think billions of people who are in all honesty better than most Christians are going to burn forever, in some sort of lake of fire.

So what of the people who have never heard of any of this? Are they just screwed?

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

God is an awesome God, and nothing will stop him from getting the good news to even the most remote parts of the world, “to the ends of the earth” (Acts 1:8). And as if to prove it, God even gave John a glimpse of heaven, where he saw people “from every tribe and language and people from every nation” (Revelation 5:9). But, here is the thing, SL….you HAVE heard it.

Vanessa Allen

1 Corinthians 2:14,16- But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand what the Spirit means. But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ!

ScaryLogic

what does that have to do with what I asked?

Anonymous

The point is that NO one is good… Not even Christians. We only make it to heaven by being clothed with Jesus righteousness.. We are all terrible, unworthy sinners, Christians included. The only difference is that when the Father sees a Christian, He sees Christ and when He sees a non-Christian, He sees the wretched sin that ALL are guilty of. All have fallen short of God’s standard.

ScaryLogic

Why would you want to believe that we are all terrible people? That’s such a sadistic view to have.

Anonymous

A sadist is one enjoys cruelty or infliction of pain on others.
A realist is one with a concern for fact or reality.
I would say that I’m realistic with reality. I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked (nor does God). It is simply a fact of life. If I tell you of starving children in other countries, I’m not being sadistic… Knowing an ‘unpleasant’ truth only makes one more knowledgeable, not sadistic. I only believe the truth through God. Believe me, in the past, my sinful nature would have kept me on the ‘all people or inherently good’ side of the fence… It’s kind of like the little child who screams I’m not listening as loud as they can when someone tries to warn them that a bus is about to hit them… It may feel like a mature or wise thing to do, but one can only understand the error of the way until they become more mature / knowledgeable.

Deborah Stroman

@ScaryLogic – Please don’t let some of these illogical, immoral, Bible-bashing, “pointing fingers at everyone else but themselves” Christians taint your view of those who love and accept Jesus Christ. Check out the United Church of Christ. We believe God is still speaking. We affirm all people. We believe God made no mistakes. We love, accept, and trust that God can and will change lives. Thanks for trying to bring rationality to religious dogma. Signed, A Free Christian

Christine

I’ve always thought that we get one more chance after we die and we are at the pearly gates. I could be wrong but I will find out when I get there.

Stephanie Beltz-Price

Yes it is for those who don’t want to believe and will not take the time to let God into their lives. He’s out there everywhere and trying to find ways into everyone’s lives. You just have to listen and be open to it. Our God is an awesome God!

ScaryLogic

Oh really? So, what about people who never get to hear about any of this “great” stuff

Mary A. Frederick Moir

TO SL..looks like a lot of logic is missing here on many posts….

Anonymous

Be it what it may…It is truth…If you have Jesus as your savior and continue in sin, then have you truly repented and turned away from sin…?

jagermiester

So, if a sexually active homosexual accepts Jesus
Christ as his/her personal Savior, and continues the behavior, they still go to heaven? Seems that Jesus has atoned for their “sins” , so should we just let gays work that out with Jesus? I know a lot of gays who go to church and behave in other ways better than many Christians. That is, they are kind, generous, loving, etc. It’s hard to win over non-Christian gays by all the terrible things done and said to them. Telling them they are going to hell doesn’t endear them to Christianity. Yet, I have no appreciation for those gays who bash Christians or those who question their lifestyle. Gays have always been a part of our society and brought many gifts in art, music, technology., etc. and I appreciate their contribution to society. However, I admit that I do not agree in gay marriage…call it something else. I’ve noticed that one in the relationship takes on a male/husband role, and one takes on a female/wife role. One recent notable gay divorce was blamed on both males in the relationship wanting the husband role. It’s all very complicated and beyond my scope of understanding, so I am just going to try to ignore and let God work it out.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

If a homosexual truly accepts Jesus as their personal savior, then by definition, they are no longer practicing homosexuals, and they have repented of that sin, which they will no longer be a part of. Jusus has atoned for all the worlds sins, but that does not mean you can keep on sinning. A commitment to Jesus is a commitment to repent. “Good behavior” is irrelevant, because that is not what gets us into Heaven. Repentance and accepting Christ Jesus is what allows us to fall under the Grace of Father God, and achieve rightousness through Christ. It is hard to win over gays just as it is hard to win over any other unrepentant sinner, not because Jesus said they will go to Hell, but because they refuse to give up their sin. Regardless of what any man or woman contributes to society, if they sin and do not repent, they are lost. That is what scripture says. That is what Jesus says.

Tammy Squires

YES!!!! we should let Jesus and them work it out! If you are saved and believe in Jesus Christ and have accepted Him as your Lord and Savior based on scripture, then your life (their life) and the sin in it WILL be worked out. He promised us the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, and it’s His job to teach us the ways of God. Regardless of the sin, if you truly love the Lord and want to follow Him, your prayer will be for the Holy Spirit to work this stuff out in you…it doesn’t happen overnight, and if we slip and mess up (which we do and will), it says in 1 John 1:9 that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and CLEANSE us from all unrighteousness…it’s a process. The Bible tells us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling…so I do…and I pray for those who are being led astray in Christian churches who say that what God calls sin is ok as long as your living a “good” life and contributing in a positive manner to society…as much as I pray for the lost to know my Jesus, I pray more for the church to be the LOVE that God has called us to be….we need to get it right and soon! ALL people need to know that there is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun…but more than that…ALL people need to know that God loves them so much that He desires to be with them…BUT…He cannot be with sin…ANY SIN! so…the question remains…do we love God or sin more?

Chris Layton

Hey those are some really good solid points. I’m not of the same Christian faith as you (I only say that because of the phrasing you use about being saved which gives me an idea of your religious affiliation) but the things you are saying are rock solid. I believe the same things though I may apply them slightly differently.

Elc Promanagement

No you don’t have to be christian to accept the lord….

Anonymous

What Lord are you talking about then? I know it’s not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because in order to enter THAT Lord’s kingdom, you have to be Christian.

Anonymous

No, you don’t really need to be a Christian, because there are TWO (but only two) ways to get to Heaven. The first is to keep the Law (the 10 commandments), all of it, all the time, every jot and title. It’s a lead pipe cinch everyone has broken three or more before breakfast every day. The SECOND way is to put your total Faith in Jesus Christ, in that He died on the Cross for every sin man has committed, even the ones we haven’t thought of yet, and by confessing that fact by mouth and believing in Him we are saved. Doing this makes you a “Born Again” Christian, the only viable alternative for those failing to “keep the Law”!

I will continue my Faith in Jesus Christ, no matter what the government dictates or society thinks. We are instructed to love the sinner (we are not sinners because we sin, rather we sin because we are sinners), and hate the sin. This certainly goes for the SIN of homosexuality. Gay persons should recognize that fact and act accordingly. Keep it in the bedroom, not on billboards and in the classroom. I shudder at the arrogance of the GLBT community that demands of God that He recognize such “unions” (if they can be called that), as “Holy Matrimony”! “Holy” it certainly is not. It’s an open doorway to Hell.

Christine

I disagree

Anonymous

If you know of a third way to get to Heaven, I’d be glad to hear it, but I’ve made MY choice.

sergio arzola

No a Christian but one who accepted GOD’S gift …JESUS .

Anonymous

Nothing gets by you.

Angie Hoeft

Amen!

Brenda Highfield

That about sums up every person in the world! Oh except for you of course.

Anonymous

Larry never excluded himself from God’s rules.

Todd

Yes, Larry! Exactly!

Diane

But then there’s that He who casts the first stone thing. Brave man, to start throwing them, Larry. Well, either brave or selective in what scripture you choose to pull out when it suits your needs. Be careful….you’re walking a fine line between self-righteous and Godly.

Anonymous

Larry’s opinion is irrelevant anyways. Whether or not your notion that he cast the first stone is a profound one, it doesn’t change GOD’s opinion on the matter. Larry was trying to point out that GOD is against homosexuality. Did you catch that? Do you agree that GOD is against homosexuality? Do you believe in GOD?

Diane

I believe in God, Who has shown Himself to me. I don’t believe in Larry. I do not need Larry, or any other human being, to interpret the Bible or God’s Word to me. He wrote it for ME as well as anybody else. I do not believe God condones homosexuality any more than He condones idolatry or thievery or adultery or any other behavior addressed in the Bible. Having said that, as adults who have been given the exposure to The Message and His teachings, each is responsible for their own behavior after that. Children can be taught; adults are responsible for what they choose to believe. Teaching God’s Word and His desires for us down here us vital for those who have never been exposed to it. For those who have, quit browbeating them. Let God deal with that. There is a lesson He gave us about that. Do you know what it is? What did He tell us about persistent non-believers?

Anonymous

I just don’t understand why you came at Larry that way. He didn’t cast any stone whatsoever. He was being a witness to what God said. You don’t believe in Larry, I get that. But focus on the content he’s positing. He’s quoting a book that he happens to agree with. That’s it. What I’m saying is, Larry didn’t cast the stone, God cast it and Larry quoted it.

Diane

Larry wants to be right for the sake of being right. So, OK, he’s right. Now what?

Diane

Let me just add this: sounding so “righteous” and “know-it-all” is a huge turn-off to those adults who have rejected Christ. It does His service NO GOOD to slam people with truth when they have scales over their eyes! For people who are determined to not believe, ramming the Bible down their throats (so to speak) only serves to further distance them. Lead by example, not by being louder or talking longer. Just BE. And pray. That’s it! God will handle the rest!

Have you figured out what we’re told about persistent non-believers yet? What does God tell us about them?

Me

my issues is I will never know what GOD thinks, if I did I would be in heaven. Above all love one another, deeply. because LOVE covers a many sins.

William Price

You condone sin all the time…the Bible also says, your suppose to obey the laws of the land, yet how often do you speed? Or run a redlight? Do you stop and beg Gods forgiveness the moment you go one mile over ? Is any sin greater than another? Its so easy, to cherry pick scriptures and use them to strengthen your cause…look at your mindset in your response…I don’t hate any sinner? As if your above them, and not among them? We all fall short, of the glory of God…Its only thru our faith that we become whole, nothing else…Sin is sin in Gods eyes…Its funny how the one you pick is talking about not inheriting Gods kingdom if you are any of these things? You are rebel, you are no better than the gay person the drunkard , and so on, the Bible also says if you look upon someone and lust you have committed adultery already…but I bet you also believe people can be virgins on their wedding night as well? How many teenagers do you think make it past 16 virgins going by the Bibles definition of morality…my point is we all fall short…So Gays shouldn’t marry? Why cuz its such a holy sacred vow to God? Is that why the divorce rate for heterosexuals is so low ? Because we really want to follow Gods laws, and we set such a high standard for ourselves? The divorce rates inside the church replicate that of the worlds as well…the truth is , we should worry about other things and let the gay community have their faith and relationships be what they are…personal…You quote homosexuality as the Bible calls it a abomination…it also says to get the beam out of your own eye before trying to fix someone elses mote.

Anonymous

Amen

PissedOffAmerican

wow, way to post a very one sided translation of the bible. With as many versions that there are out there how can you say that the one you are quoting from is even anywhere near the original anymore. I say that if they want the same rights on earth then so be it. Leave the rest of it to God when they meet him for judgement. Why tell ANYONE that they don’t have the right to do something that you have the right to do because your “version” of what God says is different than theirs. Who do you think you are to make that JUDGEMENT. Judge not lest ye be judged.

Apostle D.B.

Let’s start with the abomination. What does the word say?
. Proverbs 12:22 KJV
Lying lips are abomination to the Lord : but they that deal truly are his delight.
Not only is same sex a abomination so is lying. How many of us do that from time to time?
Next, what about Sin? Your views are very strong against someone else sin.How does God view that? What do the word say about that?
James 2:10
For the person who keeps all of the laws “except one” is as “guilty” as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.
If we break one law we have broken all his laws. The word is simple to God all sin is sin. Just break one, like lying and you broken them all. We might as well say we’ve had same sex relationship in God’s eye’s.

Let’s look at sin a little deeper. What does the word say?
James 2:9 NLT
If you show favortism one person over another you sin.
James 4:17 KJV
if you know to do good and don’t do it you sin.
So we are all sinners in this world. When you sin and feel God looks over yours and not same sex sins, remember ”
“So What the word says.”
James 2:10 “If you break one of my laws you are guilty of breaking all my laws.” Verdict we are all guilt!
Apostle D.B.

Kimberly Kathaleen King

Okay, but God does say that we are *all* made in His image. Does this include all good? all normal? Which is normal is to me as what normal is to you. I am not gay. But imagine being told time and time and time again that you cannot love and be with the one you love. Are those who are gay, supposed to magically be something that they are not? What is the answer then, to thine own self be true? And do you think that a person who is homosexual should deny themselves the happiness they ought to have in life as the good Lord wants for us to have? Think about it. Many many regular heterosexual marriages are dreadful. Should these folks just “stay together” even tho they are miserable? Can’t we all just not JUDGE others and stop playing God??? After all, the good Lord knows each and every one of us better than we know ourselves! Why, then, can’t this be the message?

William Steele

You are correct my friend. To many people bend their beliefs not to affend others. But the truth is truth. We all will be judged by god. And there he will not bend on our judgment. People think we are judging them. But its just a concern for them out of love for our brothers and sisters.

Harold Williams

Amen Larry. Great job. Great to see a true Christian standing up for the whole truth, not believing in the one’s who wants to be wishy washy on the word of God.

Anonymous

Amen Brother you are absolutely right! I did a video on YouTube on what the Bible says about Homosexuality!

we all going to Hell Damn look at all that neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. At one time are another and I still do some slip ups now and then so what is it I have to look forward to ? I am not being sarcastic I am just confused

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

April, what you have to look forward to is that your (and mine) only way to salvation is through acceptance of Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Yes, you and all of us continue to sin. But those sins have already been paid for. Jesus paid that price for us on the cross and because of that He offers us salvation for that sacrifice. So, what must you do to receive it? 1. Admit that you are a sinner. 2. Ask forgiveness of those sins. 3. Confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior over all. With that, Jesus will mend our relationship with God. The verses above only refer to those that have not repented and continue in their sin. You seem ready to accept Jesus. I strongly urge you to seek out a Bible believing Pastor and let him help you through this process. I am a Pastor as well and would be happy to talk to you. I will send you a friend request through FB if you want to talk more.

April Matthews Montanez

Wow do not remember this conversation at all , but Pray for my Family to be ONE AGAIN my daughter 26 is still giving me Problems for 15 years I am trying so hard and nothing Happening

John Scott

But the Bible is not law nor should it be law. The separation of church and state makes that clear. Our forefathers were obviously wanting a religious connection, but knew enough that no separation would be disaster. You can believe its a sin if that is your belief. Does not mean it cannot be legal for gay people to have a legal marriage, or bond, or contract. Whatever your comfortable with calling it. Sinners abound on Earth and singling out one sin is simply not seeing the big picture. Its not your position to judge. To many the Bible is purely a human creation written as a guidance for other humans. A sort of instructions of how to live. Do many people follow it completely? I would find that hard to believe. It would mean your perfect and we know that humans are not.

Thomas Collins Jr

The problem is, why focus on homosexual sin, having affairs, lustful thoughts, immoral thoughts, stealing, cheating on taxes, worshiping money rather than God is also sin, all equal in nature, sort of equality of sin, none worse than the other. The only unforgivable sin is Blasphemy, the denial or denegration of a God period.

Andrea

You do know this would include every member of your church in any part of the world today??? As well as yourself. Bc even if a man looks at a woman and lusts, it is as adultery, anger as the sin of murder. You’re missing the power of Christ to forgive and regenerate.

MrRobertsturges .

Many here prove themselves the apostate church, Larry has rightly defended the truth and shared appropriate scriptures. If you take a, we all sin attitude you will wake up in hell. To fall into sin in any matter is no light thing to a Holy Ghost filled man . Do you live to obey and please God or do you live to please yourself? That is the difference between saint and sinner. If you defend homosexuality or just take a passive approach you are Gods enemy and seek to destroy souls like your father the devil.

Sandy Pfaff

I guess you dont believe the Bible then or maybe God is just a liar to you…Hmmmm??? The Bible says it is a sin and an abomination and an abomination to God means death for eternity…dont ya think someone should tell people? Especailly a pastor who says he preaches the Bible??????

Rody

And, until a person takes their last breath on this earth (which most of us won’t be there to witness), they have one last second of life to repent and accept Christ, therefore going to Heaven. Most people think that because for most another person’s life, they chose to live a life in sin, that they automatically go to Hell. Remember, it’s one last breath and most times it’s God and the dying person in that moment and not an audience of us

lexingtonnchick

Another who picks and chooses what they should believe out of the bible. Just follow it to the tee but I bet you don’t and even if it does say that and 100 other crazy things I am sure you don’t follow the bottom line is YOU ARE NOT GOD. You are to live in his world and follow his rules and don’t worry about those who don’t. HE is the judge not YOU.

suzyshopper

And am sorry but u are wrong in your reasoning,and there are verses in the Bible that says we are too admonish our brothers when they are saying or doing something wrong, not only that , if they will not repent of it, we are too bring it too the churches attention,and if they still will not repent, we are too keep no company with them till they repent . This myth about us not judging is taken out of context, a real student of the Bible would, know this,if they studied all of the Bible instead of cherry picking it .

Todd Lanter

that is exactly what I was thinking. He needs to tell people the truth. I have lost respect for Joel. Sorry.

Anonymous

Joel does tell the truth but tells it in a softer way if possible and avoids the sin message as much as possible…It is the feel good religion…Not what I am living out in my daily life….

guest1

As a Christian, I personally would have been happy if Joel came out and stated what the bible says. However, he must use wisdom….that question is meant to start a crude smear campaign against him and the real message that God has given him. Those that ask that question actually know (coz they have heard it repeatedly) what the bible says. But they want to raise a controversy that he will then spend his time and energy defending. We are warned to be as wise as serpents but as harmless as doves.

Larry A. Greenlee Jr.

The problem is that he used his own wisdom (faulty) rather than God’s wisdom. Do you not think that God will protect His own when they stand for Him?

2 Timothy 1:7

7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Anonymous

There is a list of sins that will keep you from heaven and homosexuality is one of them…

Karen

yes..exactly Sandy..I sure do miss Jerry Falwell..he did not back down from the truth..no matter who he was talking to, including presidents..he preached love and that God loved the sinner and not the sin..but he did not shy away from telling you what the Bible said was a sin..

dannyboy

So you want a Burger King style Christian faith? ” Have it your way”

lexingtonnchick

Like you follow every part of the bible? Have you sold your daughters to slavery? Have you cut your wifes hands off? You can’t pick and choose what parts you follow and what parts you don’t. God created humans to love each other, we are all different and we don’t have to agree with each other but we do have to respect each others boundaries. He’s not asking you to be gay, he’s asking you to be a good person and not hate others who are different. He will deal with who gets into heaven- not you.

suzyshopper

No what u are asking Christians is, too be tolerant of sin, as for Christians sinning, anyone of us know, that we must repent , and the Bible says we have a new nature ,and that we can no longer habitually sin.Also God did not create humans too love each other, he created man too love him supremely,than your neighbor.. And yes I try too the best of my ability too follow the Bible, in my everyday life, when I see something that God says is wrong then I change it .You equate disagreeing with someone over a certain subject as hate,but we see it as love, because we warn ppl of the wrath too come!Do u think in this day and age, that it is easy too be a Christian , knowing that we will be ridiculed and reviled for what we say, what nut in there right mind , would want to be called names because they stand for the word of God, but we do it out of love for our fellow man.

lexingtonnchick

Try reading the bible- all of it instead of preaching some crap you saw on TV. Jesus’ disciples were criminals because he trusted the sinners and died for SINS. Its not up to you to play Jesus and worry about others, worry about yourself.

Mary A. Frederick Moir

AMEN Lexingtonchick

JB

You should read the Bible before you try quoting it.

alicia

If you are a believer in Christ you don’t have to defend your position with what you think. You just have to speak the word of God and let the Holy Spirit fight the battle because he is the only one that can reveal the truth. This is what Christ did when Satan came to him he spoke the truth. Those who don’t want to hear the truth want except it anyway and it not or job to convince them. It was God who sanctioned who marriage is between and it is His to change. If Joel or anybody else can’t say I don’t believe in this because God doesn’t permit it and I don’t have the right to approve it because I wasn’t the one who sanction it in the first place has a problem.This is something that only God has the right to change. I love all people gay or not but I can not approve of everything that people want to do even if it is against popular opinion. You are not being judge mental when you speak what God has said . God word is the one that is making people feel like they are being judge and it not us they have a problem with it God they have a problem.

Linda Creech

then you have never read the bible because God’s word says straightforward: a man shall not lie with another man, or a woman with another woman, etc.

BURNTFUR

then how about you allow others to have their beliefs and call it what they want, according to their beliefs? It seems to me the whole issue goes away when you start minding your own business.

Victoria Coots

If you do not think it is a sin, then you have not read the Bible. God not only calls it sin, He calls homosexuality an abomination. It defies His creation, and the biological design of the man and the woman for procreation.

Steve Smith

that is what i have been saying all along ,,it is not right in gods sight ,but if they want the legal part of it ,let them apply for common law marriage !!! GOD will never bless such a union ,so it will never be a holy union !!!!

Brenda

God created everyone……Marriage is the Union of all people to Live and Love one another no matter of race, religion, sex, orientation, etc……God said love one another……….do not judge least ye be judged…..

Becca Burnette

2 Timothy 3:16 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction….Rebuking sin is not judging ,and it says in Gods word we should not point anyone to sin that we will be held accountable if we do…

Vanessa Allen

It also says if we see a brother or sister living in sin and don’t rebuke them for it, that we are just as guilty as they are.

guest1

Simple analogy….if you have children, you also have house rules. Rules that you expect your children to follow, failure to which there will be consequences (e.g. grounding, not TV etc). And you are not mad/stupid when you set these house rules,there is a reason. When your child breaks those rules and the stated consequences follow, have you stopped loving your child? No. You still love them, but they must follow the rules. Same basic principle with God…He created everyone. But He also set some house rules, which if broken have consequences. Love is extremely expensive…..and should therefore not just be handled any which way.

BG

so by that logic you condone incest , pedophilia , ect..

suzyshopper

Marriage is the union of all ppl is your opinion not Gods, are we just too throw out what he says, because we don’t like it?Please use the judge not less ye be judged idea in the right context,ppl always want too leave out the verses following it, too describe what it is talking about. Let me enlighten u with the rest of the verse, it says but do YOU do the same,in other words u have no right too judge someone for something, if your doing the same thing, that’s the context of the rest of the verse. Also if u knew the Bible as well as u think, there are many verses about judging what is right and what is wrong. So should Christians listen too u, or God?

Anonymous

The love of two disgusting perverts for each other is in no way similar to the love I have for my wife.

Andrew T. Boyd

It used to be called a Civil Union, but homosexuals wanted it to become a big story and decided to go after marriage because they knew they could get news coverage and the like. If they had just changed civil unions to be the same as a marriage there wouldn’t be all this ado about nothing. Now it has taken on a much greater thing now because the far left and the media use it for political purposes and to try and say that Christianity is a fairy tale and make believe and that you are weak and stupid to believe in such nonsense. I guarantee God is coming back and from the looks of things very soon.

Carolyn Molnar

I agree that ‘marriage’ is not the right word. (maybe union or life contract or something else…) Love is love and it’s wonderful for whoever feels it but ‘marriage’ is for the union of a man and a woman.

Bill Kelly

The gay life-style makes sex nothing more than assisted masturbation.

BK

Totally agree Debbie. And to add to what you wrote, we are all sinners but we are not treated like outcasts. Why should gay people be treated any differently than us? And Jesus spent considerable time with those looked down upon by society – prostitutes, lepers, tax collectors etc.. If he were on earth today, I am sure he would spend considerable time with gay individuals. We are all the same in that we are ALL sinners.

Sarah

So, atheists should not be allowed to call it “marriage” either, by that logic. Marriage is essentially a romantic legal contract. It’s totally cool if you believe homosexuality is a sin, I support your right to that opinion and would defend it with my life if I needed to. But unfortunately… That’s not how this system works. If you want laws governed by your religion then go somewhere else.

Preature

Psalm 5.5 …?

Leslie Taylor

Marriage isn’t a God thing. People other than Christians get married everyday. Even athiests get married.

Marriage is a government thing. Tax benefits, visitation rights, property division, etc. Maybe Christians should be the ones that have to call it something different, considering the Christian religion was a little late to the party, even amongst other religions.

Candy Kriegel

Christianity is an extension of Judaism. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob created marriage with Adam and Eve.
No one knows for sure how long creation of the earth and universe took, but we can get a pretty good idea of how long people have been on the Earth by looking at the ancestry lines laid out in the Bible or the Torah. The entire bloodline is there from Adam to Jesus Christ and we know approximately when Jesus Christ was born, give or take a handful of years.

B.C. it was an entirely foreign notion to any and all Gentiles (non-Jews) to worship only one God because back then, everybody worshiped all kinds of “gods” including themselves.

Yes, both marriage and homosexuality existed prior to Christianity, but marriage predates homosexuality and God created marriage and The Father sent The Son, ergo, God also created Christianity.
The hearts of humans are evil at their root, but the saving grace of Jesus Christ can change people from being who they were born as into becoming who they were born to be and always mean to be.

Emily Hazard

I couldn’t have put that better myself, Debbie Roberts!!! VERY WELL SAID. I am a Christian, too and I have to confess that I sinned in the area of what is known in society as “bisexuality”! I must confess that before I comment further… I did that, I regret that, I’ve wired our Father (God) for forgiveness, and He has forgiven me. More so, I have not repeated the sin. I am now married to a wonderful man. The Bible spells out the answer to homosexuality…. I believe in traditional marriage, however as a Christian I am not to judge a sinner lest I be judged. And YES we are to hate the sin…. LOVE the sinner. Amen

Victoria Coots

Amen. Homosexuality is a sin, just like stealing, lying, coveting, having other gods, taking God’s name in vain, murder, dishonoring one’s parents, and so forth. We MUST call sin sin. Yes, we are called to both pray for, and reach out to sinners to repent. We should do it in love, understanding that all are sinners.

Smith

God = Love. Marriage is a love thing and therefore the government should call what THEY accept something other than “marriage” as that is what would make it fair to all tax-paying residents. In your religion, you should feel free to call it a marriage or anything else if the name is really what bothers people. But with this, it seems as though you are saying that there is no God in a gay marriage and, in turn, that there is God in every “marriage”. Clearly, we know this is not true. In my opinion, all tax-paying resident should have the same rights as ANY other tax-paying resident. All sins are equal, therefore thieves, prostitutes, killers, adulterers, the proud, the greedy, the gluttonous and gays are all equal, not to mention those that eat meat on Fridays. Should the fore-mentioned also not be allowed to marry either? Well, apparently because many have already married, that is not the case and it is nothing more than anatomy that makes the difference – which is unfair as a tax-paying resident. What happens in someone’s “marriage” is between them and their God and has nothing to do with anybody else on this natural earth. Who are we to judge the hearts of others? And if you believe you are someone worthy of judging, are you married? Do you know and love God? If so, you have defeated your own point.

Marcel Lucien

Actually, marriage is a legal thing. That’s why you have to get a license from the state. If religious organizations don’t want to perform same sex marriages, that is their right. But not allowing everyone the same rights is wrong, and every adult should have the right to get married if they so choose.

Lisa Hancock

I agree with you completely Debbie, I couldn’t have said it better myself.

William Steele

Bible says its wrong. Joel is a false prophet

Anonymous

Not sure I would call him a false prophet, but judging by his timidity to call a spade a spade, he certainly seems to part of the all-too-common lukewarm church in America.

bobDbob

Say’s the Westboro crowd…

ScaryLogic

You know what else the Bible says?

If a woman tries to save her husband from a beating by grabbing the
other man’s private parts to lift him off her husband, then both her
hands must get cut off: Deuteronomy 25:11-12 “And in case men struggle
together (in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has come
near to deliver her husband out of the striking one (to save her
husband), and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of his
private (the other man’s groin), she must then get both her hands cut
off, and the eyes of the men must feel no sorrow.”

Fathers can sell their daughters as slave girls: Exodus 21:7-8 “And in
case a man should sell his daughter as a slave girl, she will not go out
in the way that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the
eyes of her master so that he doesn’t designate her as a concubine but
causes her to be redeemed, he will not be entitled to sell her to a
foreign people in his treacherously dealing with her.”

bobDbob

Any “Christian” that quotes the old testament deserves to have this crap thrown back in their face. But Jesus replaced the old law so this is like quoting the Quran. What we need to get rid of is Christian Sharia (however much better than the full strength Sharia) I could care less if a Christian thinks Im going to hell for any reason and thats where it should stop… end of discussion, end of the Sharia Here is the side note to those that think we are all going to burn in hell if we don’t stop sodomy (sodomy being one of the key sins of gayness) Gay marriage will NOT increase SODOMY amongst gay people any more than it will NOT decrease SODOMY amongst the hetro crowd. So just tell the gays they are going to hell if you must and leave them the hell alone after you have done your duty to warn the world you despicable losers! (just my opinion)

linda2

If one took Hansel and Gretal for example, and quoted the passage where the little girl puts the old woman in the oven and kills her, Gretal and the fables would seem very twisted. Similarly, the stories of the bible are to be taken in context. Those of us who are taught in the word and the spirit understand this and I hope if you are reading the bible a pastor can help you understand them as well.

ScaryLogic

I have the same qualifications as most pastors, so no thanks.

So, what context is acceptable to sell your daughter into slavery? Hmmm? I mean, you are attempting to refute me here, so I can safely assume you know everything about that right?

linda2

Google it?

Basically:

[context] – an Israelite who purchases a male Israelite slave must allow that slave to go free – if the slave desires it – after six years. In other words: a male Israelite slave is what we moderns call an indentured servant, and the term of his indenture (for any particular sale) is no greater than 6 years.

[the passage in question] – a female Israelite slave who is purchased by an Israelite person, however, is under a different set of regulations. She is not an indentured servant and is the property of her master for as long as the master desires it – a true slave in modern terminology.

[relative to both male and female] – Israelite slaves and indentured servants cannot be sold to foreigners but may be sold to other Israelites.

Note that (under Mosaic Law) a man could sell himself as an indentured servant over and over again – each term lasting no more than 6 years. A woman – because she was a concubine (available as a sex partner for her master **or** – alternately – for any one other individual the master required) had more permanence. That is: she couldn’t just leave her nearly-husband after 6 years, taking his and her children with her. A concubine had nearly the status and nearly the obligations of a wife and (much like a wife under Mosaic Law) could not be released from the contract unless the man desired it.

linda2

(Just copied and pasted above the first response I read) but I’ve heard non-Christians post these verses for years and just trying to explain anything taken out of context can sound twisted.

ScaryLogic

So… taking the Bible as the infallible word of God, I can get myself a slave?

linda2

lol yes my friend….or pehaps in this day and age slavery is no longer the norm as it was in those times lol

linda2

again without understanding the context of the bible you can say anything to make it twisted (per my last example) “So….I can just put an old woman in the oven and cook her if I want?” no thats not what the story is about and I’m taking it out of context

ScaryLogic

Oh, so God changes depending on what the norm is?

linda2

ie. no mention of social media in the bible because it’s from a different time

linda2

spiritual issues (love, hate, envy) those are forever and what the message is about. Tangible things change (slaves, media outlets)

ScaryLogic

It still doesn’t make sense. I think we can both agree technology and slaves are 2 totally different things.

Why would a loving God allow laws that have his children being bought and sold like cattle.

linda2

(didn’t notice that was so grammatically wrong noone can read lol so edited ) but point was that some things are in the bible and some arn’t bc they are of that time when it was written. Slavery was part of the norm in those days in all cultures as to why I cannot answer that.

linda2

To sum up I just don’t believe in taking it literally ie. story about wrting on a scroll to God. Scrolls don’t exist (well not in my neighborhood) but I will take away the message, apply it to my life and receive from that.

Brandon Garland

I think the issue is that you’re doing what a LOT of people, including myself, do, which is placing human though and intellect above God’s. And, in the case of slavery, I’m afraid you haven’t got proper context. But it says in Colossians 2:8 Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

ScaryLogic

Ok, so I can have a slave if I’m a good person? That’s easy enough.

You can’t take a Scripture out of context to prove why taking something out of context is wrong. lol

Slavery in the Bible is a difficult topic to broach because our paradigm is both horrific and largely unrelated to slavery in the Bible. Slaves in our time and in recent centuries are “chattel” slaves. They were tricked into or forced to work. They received no pay and had no right to refuse to work. Their humanity was owned by another person.

Slavery in the Old Testament was very different and involved a variety of methods, situations, and restrictions. But the Old Testament is clear about capturing people and selling them as chattel: kidnapping was a crime punishable by death (Exodus 21:16 ).

The Purpose of Slavery
In an ideal world, slavery would neither be an option nor a necessity. Because of the socioeconomic situation of Old Testament Israel, God did allow slavery, but He allowed it for a simple purpose: to help the poor survive. A person could sell himself into slavery (akin to indentured servitude) in order to pay off debt or provide a basic subsistence. God did not intend for Israel to have poverty (Deuteronomy 15:4 ), but sin made it inevitable (Deuteronomy 15:5 ), and God allowed slavery to deal with that reality.

God enacted several laws to prevent the need for slavery in the first place. Many of these laws are found in Deuteronomy 24:

Becca Burnette

cont. Verse 6: a piece of equipment used in the survival of a family may not be taken in pledge for a loan.
– Verses 12, 17: if a poor man gives his cloak in pledge, it must be returned at night so he won’t be cold; a widow’s cloak must not be taken in pledge at all.

– Verses 14-15: a poor hired man must receive his wages daily.

– Verses 19-21: when harvesting wheat, olives, or grapes, some must be left over for the poor to take for themselves.

Slavery was to be a last resort. Israel was to “remember that you were a slave in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you from there” (Deuteronomy 24:18 ).

Becca Burnette

cont. Treatment of SlavesThe treatment God prescribed for slaves reflects His concern for the foreigner and the poor. In the case of debt slaves, foreign women, and girls, slaves lived with the family. They did domestic chores and sometimes held responsible, trusted positions (Genesis 24:2-4 ). Laws that, at first glance, seem to be abusive actually mirror civil law regarding free men.

– If either a free man (Exodus 21:18-19 ) or a slave (Exodus 21:20-21 ) is injured, the one who caused injury must provide care for the victim.

– If a man harms his slave’s face, the slave is free (Exodus 21:26-27 ), a fair comparison to the injury of a free man (vs. 24-25).

– An ox who killed a free man (vs. 28) or a slave (vs. 32) was to be stoned—the punishment of a murderer.

linda2

Were we watching the same video? I’m Christian and was hoping to hear him tell me where in the bible it says it’s okay. I was disappointed to hear him say it was “against the rules” but he doesn’t “focus on it”. Probably the same way he doesn’t focus on gluttony or any other “sin” Why are religious people so quick to judge people harshly? Especially in this instance when he was agreeing with your viewpoint.

Joseph

My understanding of your post is that your are or were gay and Joel may be helping you to deal with some personal issues through love and understanding.

linda2

No my friend, I just like gay people (friends, family) and hoping they’re ok to get married in God’s eyes. I just understand I don’t make the rules. I was “hoping” as I said to hear him say where in the bible it says it’s ok.

Joseph

I’ve not read anywhere in the bible where it says having a gay relationship is ok. In fact as I’m sure you are aware it says the exact opposite. I can’t judge another person because I am commanded to “judge not”. I have friends and family who are gay as well and I love them all. For me, the bible is to people what a car manual is to a car. I know when I step outside the Word of God life is not as enjoyable as when I stay in line with His manual for my life. Joel has said “it’s against the rules.” That’s good enough for me. Everyone has a job to do in “the Body” and I believe Joel is doing his. My hope is that I am doing mine.

Brooke

Joel does not claim to be a prophet. Joel is a preacher who reaches millions of people ever week for the Kingdom. He doesn’t hammer in the word like a bible church would, but rather helps baby Christians with, first salvation, and then relational Christianity to get them working Christ into their every lives and thoughts. The conservative church is waiting for the the champion who will make this issue crystal clear, but Joel knows that’s not him and he refused to take the enemies bait as it was shoved into his face. That’s not false prophesy, that’s God’s Wisdom…. Jesus Himself did not allow the pharisees to trap Him when they confronted Him with Mary Magdeline and recited Jewish law calling for her to be stoned to death. Jesus held true to His purpose and His message. Joel knows the path (lane) that God has him on. He will not deviate from that path to buy into a political “PC” agenda. He stayed in alignment with what he knew to be God’s will for his ministry.

William Steele

Joel only teaches people to be good to one another. That’s fine. But to many people listen and will not read and study the bible themselves. He takes their money nothing more. The blood of Jesus is what he should teach. Without it we will not make it into heaven. You will not get into heaven just by being a good person.

Dave Nagy

42000 members at 10% = Joel Osteen motivation.. Don’t upset the Gay’s. Need their Money too.. DICKS ARE FOR CHICKS…. God, did not create two sexes too be together……..

Jaime McDaniel

Then why does God create Gay people? How many people have you seen in your life that have physical features that you just know they are gay. Gay guys many years ago were called fancy pants and etc. The way they talked, the way they looked you and moved you could just tell. Even going back to elementary and middle school. That is the way they were born. How do you explain people that were born with both genitals, it is just in the genes. I am not Gay but I am sure they do not choose to be the way they are. They were born that way which is nature, genes, and guess who is nature and created Genes? God. They are God’s creatures also just like us, no difference. From the time I was a kid growing up in Church it always amazed me how Christians were so judge mental and picked and chose what they wanted to follow in the Bible to fit their needs and beliefs and just ignored other things.

Anonymous

It’s too bad that Osteen doesn’t have the kahunas to take an unequivocal stand like Phil Robertson – no hate, but speak the truth in love.

ScaryLogic

Who decides whats true?

Anonymous

Do you consider every truth claim to be relative? What is your criteria for determining what is true? Do you believe that Julius Caesar was a historical figure who lived in the 1st century B.C.?

ScaryLogic

I determine truth with fact and evidence.

I have the unique ability to take everything from a worldwide perspective, and not just my own ideologies. So when someone blurts out “ITS GODS LAW!!!!!!!” like a crazy homeless person… I think to myself, “ok, but what about 6,000 miles away in another country with a completely different set of “truths” and ideologies. People who are THAT vocal are also usually pretty poorly educated in the history of the world and religion in general in my experience.

Cory Alan McEntire

your soul at stake not mine, i only hope you can fix your way of thinking before Jesus comes back.

ScaryLogic

My “soul is at stake?” according to who? What makes your belief truer than anothers’? Because YOU were raised on it, and you have to reaffirm you aren’t wasting your time at every turn? Hmmmm.

Anonymous

Been around lately? I don’t think Jesus is coming back HERE. We’ve made our beds…

Marcus

Hate to burst your bubble, but you are not “unique.” Look up the definition of that word. Do you think you are the only individual with worldwide perspective????

ScaryLogic

It would appear that in the context of this forum I am.

It can be an adjective or a noun. Nice try though.

Marcus

You used it as an adjective modifying the noun ability. I teach English. Hot Tip: when you’re in a hole, stop digging.

ScaryLogic

Right, but “unique” while by definition means the only one, It Is not inherently bound by THAT meaning, and is usually used to mean rare or uncommon. Which is obviously the way I was using it. So, instead of attempting to pull about my post with semantics, why not address the bigger issue?

Marcus

1.
being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.
Ok, I understand you now. Words mean what you want them to mean. They are not “inherently bound” to the dictionary definition. It is usually MISused to mean rare or uncommon. Fixed it for ya.

ScaryLogic

No they are not, because words have different meanings depending on the context or culture they are used in, I’ve never seen a dictionary in my life that has EVERY use of the word defined.

What level of English do you teach anyway? Eh, it matters not.

Are you ever going to address the actual subject?

Marcus

From beginner ESL to college level. I was referring to YOUR misuse of the word as it is properly defined and used in THIS culture. Your careless error is my subject, as it made your original comment reek of braggadocio.

ScaryLogic

But I didn’t misuse it.

I used it in the same way someone would say “That is a unique individual”

Marcus

So, then your claim is that you are the “only” person with a worldwide perspective??? And yes, each individual is unique. There is only one me, there is only one you. But you did not apply that adjective to yourself, you applied it to the noun perspective. Quit digging young man.

ScaryLogic

Now, if you have something to add to the ACTUAL topic, I’d be happy to discuss.

Marcus

Wow! Good Going! How many dictionaries did you have to plow through to find one that gave you five definitions, the fifth of which bows to the fact the word is commonly misused? Ir’s like using the word “decimate” to mean utterly destroyed. Wrong, but so many people use it wrong, it’s accepted. Next you’ere going to tell me “very unique” is proper as well?

So far as gay marriage is concerned, it’s not an issue that affects me, I don’t care if two people want to be married or call it a civil union, or what. I kind of doubt that God much cares, and the state of their soul is God’s business, not mine. I’ll find a different hill to die on, thank you very much. I cannot see how gay marriage could possibly do much more harm to the state of marriage, with divorce rates and broken families as they are. . We are currently a culture of serial polygamy.

ScaryLogic

If you type in “define unique” into google, it’s the first website result. So about 3-4 seconds.

Anonymous

Oh holy crap! The teachers are out for the summer! Lock up your sons and daughters!

Barbara Hughes Bornholdt

I share your views ScaryLogic! The real issue is in the acceptance of things you don’t understand. If more people would stop basing their lives on the perceptions of history and focused more on the full facts of history, then an accepting culture would emerge. Living with the beliefs of the past instead of improving on them only leads to oppression.

Amber

Okay, as a historian, I just have to say there are no “full facts of history.” We can NEVER know exactly what happened but can make informed and educated theories about the experiences of certain groups of people or individuals based on evidence. And if you get five historians in a room together that all work on the exact same topic, you will have five different accounts of that topic. History is constantly changing and “perception” depends on the one telling the story. Just think in terms of changing patterns in the history of America. Before, no one really acknowledged anyone but the “founding Fathers.” Now we have history that strives to bring in perspectives from women, non-whites, etc. that all tell very different stories. Human nature is not very nice. And it’s not very accepting. Christians should educate themselves both in God’s word and other people’s perspective. Not because that will somehow make them more accepting to things that they don’t believe are right, but because it will foster better communication between Christians and non-Christians. Yelling and pointing fingers doesn’t sway many people. Jesus himself didn’t go around attacking people, but approaching them with love, kindness, and understanding. THAT is how Christians should act.

And off topic again. Sorry.

Susan

GOD does…… History!!!!!! The Bible.

ScaryLogic

Whose god?

Oh history? You do realize Christianity is younger than a lot of religions.

Cory Alan McEntire

God is the one he created everything, and if you question him that is your problem, we bring the message, and if you cannot accept Him, and the truth that is not our problem. we simply want to help you.

ScaryLogic

I feel like you only believe that because you were raised on it. Have you even studied other religions?

Mike Knox

Scary,
Why are you so concerned with what Christians believe? If your other religions give you peace then…great! The Truth is the Truth. It sounds like you are still seeking the Truth.

ScaryLogic

I’m seeking honest discussion.

The irony of your statement is crushing though. Christians caring about what others believe is fine, but throw that train in reverse and holy crap… brace yourself.

Mike Knox

If you want honest discussion then you need to be able to discern the Truth. You obviously haven’t found “Peace”…you need to keep asking questions and seeking the Truth!

Becca Burnette

The Bible is by far the older book with the earliest books possibly being written about 1446 BC and 1406 BC, whereas the Koran was compiled sometime in the 7th century AD.

Becca Burnette

Moses wrote the Torah tousands of years before the birth of Mohamed and the coming of Islam.

ScaryLogic

The bible wasn’t compiled into the works we have today until 394 AD.

As far as the content, yes it is old, but so are 1000s of other scriptures and texts from around the world.

Becca Burnette

@ BB Yes and God was the beginning and is the end however there is a verse in the bible that I cannot remember,,,but says something like this…(and remember some people in the beginning may not have heard of GOD) the true GOD and he made allowances for the lack of knowledge they might have had …it says he will judge those who have not heard the word by the knowledge they had Praise his name he is a Just GOd

Anonymous

If you want to know if the Bible is God’s word, you can always ask Him.

Anonymous

The bible is not a single book. Is there any other book with as many physical artifacts from ancient history as some found in the bible? Is there any other book with the amount of evidence (ie many copies or sections of copies) for having been copied and distributed
in ancient history as there exists for some books found in the bible?

ScaryLogic

I know that. I never said it was a singe book, in fact in my comment right above, I said “compiled” obviously meaning I acknowledge multiple works being bound together.

As far as other texts? Well lets see…Gilgamesh is still around, and it’s one of the oldest texts in history. Doesn’t mean the story literally happened. Plenty of archeological and historical facts to back it as well.

The fact that the Bible is more widespread speaks more to the popularity of Christianity rather than its legitimacy.

Anonymous

There are many artifacts that predate Christianity.

bb

True, and the VAST majority of Buddhist sutras were taught and written nearly 2500 years prior to Christ’s birth, and even before that, many of the faith traditions in Egypt that now provide the inspiration for SO many other religions, including Christianity, were well-established. Lets feel free to espouse our faith, but lets also at least TRY to be factual here.

Anonymous

How do you know that for sure? Have you died before?

Brooke

Jesus Himself did not allow the pharisees to trap Him when they confronted Him with Mary Magdeline and recited Jewish law calling for her to be stoned to death. Jesus held true to His purpose and His message. Joel knows the path (lane) that God has him on. He will not deviate from that path to buy into a political “PC” agenda. He stayed in alignment with what he knew to be God’s will for his ministry.

Becca Burnette

and after Jesus neither do I condemn you “GO and Sin no more….the whole context needs to be read to understand….WE have to repent and turn away (GIVE IT UP)from what God calls SIN

Evelyn

Because Jerry_In_IL, He would lose money. This is how he makes a living for his family. Not as a minister but Inspirational Speaker.

Christine Guinn

The government should have no part in deciding whether the “Christian view or marriage” is the correct one. Government must be neutal on the subject. THAT is why gay marriage bans have been struck down time and again, and will eventually be recognized nationwide.

Anonymous

Um, it’s the biological view. Saying gay marriage is natural is like saying carbon dioxide is a pollutant. It’s nothing more than an example of shouting your stupendous ignorance from the rooftops and backing it up with law.

Christine Guinn

We don’t make laws based on your Bible. We are not a theocracy.

Timothy Fosseen

In most of the States that were banning same sex marriage it wasn’t the government making the decision. It was the people…the voters that voted on a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as being between a man and a woman. The Constitution does say “WE THE PEOPLE” and that the government is supposed to serve the will of the people. Obama even said once that the voters in a state have the right to legally define marriage as they wish. But when the voters do that and a court overrules them it it like the Courts are saying the majority of the people are too stupid to make their own decisions.

Christine Guinn

“We the people” can’t deny rights to a group of people based on the popular vote. Try reading the 14th amendment.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

mary

I think Pastor’s worth their salt should be able to come out and say what God’s word say’s on the gay issue. Then if he wants to say he doesn’t focus on that it’s fine.

Phil Shaffer

small passages the bible call it unnatural passions,…Romans chapter 1 verses24,25,26. the bibles quite clear on this simple ,yet complex issue.its sin period just like any sin it will cause people not to enter into the kingdom of heaven.its not hate,do you love someone enuf to tell them the truth.

ScaryLogic

Small passages in the bible also advocate child slavery and dominance over women, but I guess it’s all about the point you want to make in hopes that the person you’re talking to isn’t actually familiar with your book.

Amber

I don’t want to enter into an argument that will just circle around each other, but I would like to say that the Bible is a historical document and written in a specific historical context. While Christians believe it is a living word that impacts their lives today, it is still a work of history. Many of the passages you are referring to discuss older laws that no longer applied once a new Covenant was formed with Christ. I’m not saying that at one point they didn’t exist and that is messed up, but at one point, slavery was acceptable in most of the world. Doesn’t make it right, just saying historical context needs to be taken into account and making the point that most Christians today are saved under Christ’s covenant, to which those laws no longer apply.

Christine Guinn

I don’t see that baker in Colorado refusing to make a wedding cake for a divorcee! Re-marriage after divorce is technically adultery, and also a sin.

Isn’t it great when you can use the Bible to justify your hatred or one sin, while totally ignoring another? I think they call that hypocrisy!

RGB

people who say one thing but do another…is hypocrisy. So…to deny a cake to a gay couple but then give another gay couple a cake … is hypocrisy. You, like most people who like to argue, will undeniably assert that you remain correct in your assertion that providing a cake for remarriage is hypocrisy to the gay couple denied. There are two books you need to get closer to…the Bible and a dictionary.

ScaryLogic

No it’s hypocrisy. You have to look at it much broader than that. Nice try splitting hairs though. It was amusing watching you try.

The “sins” of “gay marriage” and “adultery” are on the same vein, yet one is fought against like a plague, while the other is brushed aside while saying “oh, these things happen”

Ronnie Caldwell

It’s not adultery to remarry if you divorced with cause.

Christine Guinn

I don’t know about Protestant versions of Christianity, but in Catholicism you need an annullment from the church, which basically means that the first marriage was never vaild. Henry the 8th of England tried to get an annullment, but was refused, so he just started his own church, (Church of England), and gave himself an annullment.

So yes, divorce and re-marriage IS adultery!

Joseph

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

nb-“saving for the cause of fornication”

RGB

ah yes use a broad brush…that is convenient to the narrow-minded, self-righteous. You go girl. You go.

And where did I say I was a girl? Are you assuming everyone is a girl since you seem to assume everyone is bound by YOUR standards, it wouldn’t surprise me if the same ignorance was applied to your view of gender identification… or are you simply being childish (a fine line between the two really)

Phil Shaffer

no hatred here, youre wrong on that assumption.,calling any sin ok is misleading.i will pray for those in homosexual lifestyle that some how they may see the truth before they are face to face with their maker.not hate at all,i will love you enuf to pray for you,even while you may be cussing me.but if you point out ask me if homosexual lifestyle is sinful,i’ll tell ya what the bible says.i am not gonna have someone look up from hell and ask”why didn’t you tell me the truth when I asked you?”

Donnie M

People really shouldn’t even need a bible to see gay marriage or sex between same sex is wrong, 1- Penis 2- Vagina , if that equipment does not prove it then they are just demented and desire sick sex.

Christine Guinn

Marriage is not exclusively about sex, (except in you immature, adolescent mind.)

LR

Well actually it is. You find a good mate and reproduce so the species continues. This was especially true with arranged and political marriages as usually the couple were expected to create an heir. So same sex mating goes against nature where the purpose is to have children so a species doesn’t die. I don’t doubt Darwin would be against same sex marriage as well.

Christine Guinn

So people who are infertile or too old cannot marry? That’s your basic argument. No ability ro produce kids = no marriage.

LR

That’s pretty much how it worked back in the day. Today? Sure, not so much. But I was responding to your comment about marriage not being about sex and really, the history of mating and marriage would contradict that. People began mating to a specific person to reproduce and raise children. Long, long ago it usually wasn’t so much about love.

Anonymous

Yep. Tab A goes into Slot B. It really is that simple. That’s why I prefer the term natural marriage.

Lisa Duffie McBride

I prefer the outies.. not the innies.

Joseph

LOL – that’s the second best post I’ve read on this thread.

sarah

“but they seldom ask any other questions about the Bible or Christian views.”… What about the 30+ other religious views… what about the non-religious views…

For a country that includes the Freedom of Religion we sure spend a lot of time focusing on only one religion.

If you are Christian and you are against gay marriage because of your beliefs then I respect that… however… its when you want to **enact laws** based on that Religious Doctrine that limits the rights of United States Citizens then that is where I draw the line. Just because you are Christian does not give you the right to dictate who someone can marry.

Bottom line… This country has something called the Freedom of Religion, which should automatically incorporate Freedom from the Religion of others… If the ONLY argument against Gay Marriage is a Religious one then its clearly in violation of the First Amendment.

guest

There is also the argument that it is unnatural, abnormal, and one of the single largest contributors to disease. Now, with this line of reasoning, that religion should play no role at all in deciding what is right and wrong, how do we decide? What about polygamy, pedophilia, bestiality, etc…

sarah

“There is also the argument that it is unnatural, abnormal, and one of the single largest contributors to disease” – that is 100% false. More disease has been spread from Man to wife than has from Man to man. BTW… The 1980s called… They want their fear mongering back.

In fact homosexuality has been well documented throughout history, EVEN BEFORE CHRISTIANITY. Also some religions have tales of Gods dressing up like the opposite sex, or even in the case of some Lore around Norse Paganism, a male turned into a female and gave birth.

Also… if you seriously think Homosexuality is as bad as pedophilia I have to question your mental state. One is an act between 2 consenting adults… the other is not. Its that simple… to compare the 2 is downright sickening.

Anonymous

Does abnormal or unnatural necessarily constitute sin? Downs Syndrome is unnatural and abnormal, as well as a myriad of other born-with disorders, and while our ancestors (in churches) believed that people born with any issues were devil spawn or that there was hidden sin in the parents life, causing the birth defects, we would NEVER tolerate that way of thinking today! We know better. Anything abnormal is always a walking target. Even the ultra-intelligent, who are so far-reaching in their thinking (genius), they often lack common sense and are ridiculed. Frankly, Jesus was unusual, unnatural, and abnormal, but he was also perfect, without sin, not of this world—and we killed him for it. My dad loves liver and pickled pigs feet, but you would never catch me eating that crap. Is he in sin? No. It was how he’s made. I’m not saying homosexuality isn’t abnormal. It’s believed between 5-10% of the human population is homosexual, leaving about 90-95% hetero. That definitely makes homosexuality “abnormal,” but that doesn’t mean sin.
The church has 3 great sins: 1). Living up to a certain standard of righteousness, and then expecting everyone else to live to our standard. BUT the scriptures are clear on this: CHRIST is the standard, and he affirmed gays in Matt. 19. Don’t just read it. Study what a eunuch in Bible times actually was. In this chapter, it is not only referred to as one who is a castrated slave, but also as a person who never marries for two other reasons. A: being a missionary for kingdom’s sake, and B: one born w/o natural desire to marry from mother’s womb. Even most special needs people desire companionship that way. Who else does that leave, or at least include? Be mindful, the question that Jesus was answering from his disciple was who should not marry heterosexually, because that is how the question was originally posed by the Pharisee.
2). We read our scriptures, but we do not study them, but then we call our reading studying. To study the Bible correctly, you need the help of the Holy Spirit, an open mind, understanding that words in the bible that have been translated in English had a very different or more comprehensive meaning in Hebrew. Finding words used in Hebrew or Greek and their original meaning is imperative. Example: To lay with or lie with vs. knowing in the biblical sense. To lay/lie in Hebrew always meant sin like adultery, rape, prostitution, or idol worship was involved. Even when Rebecca paid Leah the mandrakes to sleep with Jacob. A woman should never have to pay to sleep with her husband. Complicated story, but you get the drift. Knowing was always used in terms of covenant relationship where all was well. When you look at Leviticus and Romans and see the unspeakable things going on in idol worship, and study the history around those seemingly anti-gay scriptures, you see where the confusion lies with the church in regards to homosexuals. You will never find a scripture denouncing authentic gays who love each other and are committed to each other and would love to marry. Study Sodom and Gomorrah and contrast it with the story of Gibeah. The decision to destroy Sodom was made before the angels ever entered the city. Study the practices of those cities and what they did to all strangers (foreigners) and why. This wasn’t a gay thing. That is all over the OT and NT. By the way, King David was at least bisexual, and if you really study his and Jonathan’s story, you’ll know that they were much more than friends, and yet God never dealt with him on that, (and truthfully, I’m not sure why he didn’t on the polygamy thing), but he sure did on the Bathsheba incident. After Saul lost his anointing, he couldn’t walk through the doorway wrong without God calling him on the carpet or sending Samuel to do it. David and Jonathan’s relationship lasted 15 years, and God never once admonished him for it. Read David’s whole life story and you can’t help but see it. Being homosexual is not a sin, but they are held to the same moral standards as heteros. in terms of being in a committed, preferably covenant relationship, which David and Jonathan were in a covenant of the Lord. Covenant of the Lord were their words, not mine.
3). We are more sensitive to our gag reflex than we are the Holy Spirit, and we are deeply infected with the same spirit the Pharisees had in Christ’s day.

leslie domear

Yes, but God defined marriage. Who are we to change the definition? What gives us the right to supersede God’s word? Afterall, it’s his creation– not ours. ‘Religious Doctrine’ has nothing to do with it. Btw, it’s not the so-called religious doctrine that limits the rights of U.S. citizens, it’s the government itself. The government wants to control you– not religion (unless it’s sharia law.) Btw, the government wants to shut up all bliblical expression. Why? Because the Bible is the only thing that stands between the people and complete government takeover. Political correctness is only directed toward Christians.

ScaryLogic

Hmmm, but marriage has been around longer than documented Christianity.

sarah

“What gives us the right to supersede God’s word? ”

Based on a book that was translated multiple times without any of the source material surviving. Sorry, I believe in God but the bible is not Gods word… it is mans word used to manipulate the masses. It has a lot of great morals but it is by no means 100% accurate and needs to be read with some common sense in mind.

Unless God put pen to paper, or the original works somehow turn up, then it is not Gods word. Period.

“Yes, but God defined marriage” – Then why did marriage exist long before Christianity and even in non-Christians who have never experienced Christianity. Example… Norse Pagans in the 800s… they Married without ever knowing of Gods law. In fact the Gods they worshiped were even Married (Odin was Married to Frigg). What about those religions?

“tw, it’s not the so-called religious doctrine that limits the rights of U.S. citizens, it’s the government itself.” – Politicians in the Government using the BIBLE to make these laws. Semantics or not its RELIGION DICTATING LAW.

“The government wants to control you– not religion (unless it’s sharia law.)” – Yet religion has you convinced that you have to limit the rights of people who do nothing to you based on that religion. Just like Shria law. Way to be hypocritical.

” Btw, the government wants to shut up all bliblical expression. Why? Because the Bible is the only thing that stands between the people and complete government takeover. Political correctness is only directed toward Christians.” – You are delusional. I will agree Christians are being attacked by the Administration and I do not agree with it… in fact I commended the teacher to mentioned God at Graduation… but if you really think that then you are more off the deep end than I am with all my prepping stuff.

Political Correctness is NOT only directed at Christians and if I really have to point out why then you are a lost cause.

Bottom line… Saying “Its this way because thats the way God wanted it” is no different than Muslims shouting about Shria Law…

Bottom line… GOD said Homosexuality is wrong… so in America its not recognized… That goes directly against the First Amendment.

Saying “because the bible says so” doesnt make it right… period.

leslie domear

Everything God does on earth is done through his people. The Bible is God inspired. People do His work through the Holy Spirit. God trusts us enough to allow us to be His hands and feet if we choose. Everytime we reach out to others, each time we show love to our neighbor, each time we resist temptation, everytime we pray, and so on. A miracle doesn’t happen unless someone believes in it. The Bible writers were not like news reporters giving their personal interpretation of events they eye-witnessed, but were divinely guided.
Researchers have found there is very little variance from the original texts and today’s Bible. That is a miracle in itself.
You ask, “Then why did marriage exist long before Christianity and even in non-Christians who have never experienced Christianity?” That’s exactly my point! History has always believed in marriage between a man and woman. Only in recent times is society trying to change that definition after 5,000 years! As far as 1st amendment rights, yes give same sex unions the same rights as married couples– but don’t hijack the word ‘marriage’. Call it something else.
And yes, politcal correctness is directed toward Christians who are generally conservative. Conservatives overall are the target of political correctness. Government is attempting to silence the far right. The far left is never attacked by ‘political correctness’ proponents.
And if you noticed, I answered your post without any name calling. You are not a ‘lost cause’, you are not ‘hypocritical’, you are not ‘delusional’ (your words.)
Btw, I never said it is this way because that’s the way God wanted it. God’s way is rarely done on earth– that’s the whole reason this earth is so broken.

sarah

Though you want to talk about controlling the people…

How about the Crusades… Convert or we will kill you.

How about the first Viking King who converted to Christianity simply because he saw the value in controlling his kingdom through one single god. <— Academic Fact… Look it up.

How about the fact that the book has been translated by multiple different men throughout the centuries without any source material surviving.

How about all the passages that talk of keeping female slaves, punishing and subverting women, and hailing men as the ones who run the world.

And thats not manipulation???

Sorry but you are blind.

Jerry Coaker

Osteen is what was prophesied in the bible in II Timothy 4:1-4:

1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

False Phrophet.

ScaryLogic

If you believe the Bible is the “infallible word of God” then explain these verses to me.

“If a man dies and leaves no son, turn his inheritance over to his
daughter. (Numbers 27:8)” So the American law of splitting everything
equally is not Biblical.

“If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his
widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband’s brother shall
take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her.
(From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 25:5)”

There are TONS like this… but I didn’t want my post to be that long.

Sharon Wright

There are 3 different types of law instituted by God in the Old Testament: civil law, ceremonial law and moral law. You have to understand each one and the purpose of each one to appreciate the value of the the law.

ScaryLogic

This is true. However, why would a loving God give laws that allow his children to be bought and sold like cattle?

Curtis Smith

Wimpy Cotton Candy Response. That’s why I don’t listen to him.

ScaryLogic

What would you have liked him to say?

Joyce Fox

“And Adam knew Eve and she bare a son …” THAT is marriage. From the very beginning Marriage was a state that was created by God to stabilize the family. He instituted one man, one woman and HE called homosexuality an “abomination”. Not homosexuals … the ACT. If you wish to join with a member of your own gender for reasons of law, I have no problem with that. However, I DO have a problem with using terms that imply the blessing of God on that union. I DO have a problem with “gay couples” being allowed to adopt children (“gayness” cannot be genetic, since the majority of gay people do not reproduce!) Osteen needs to get a backbone!

Curtis Smith

Awesome Response. Thank You

Anonymous

The most troubling part of his response is that an evangelical pastor with such a large following, while referencing his “core message” or “main message”, didn’t mention God, Jesus, or The Bible one time.

Susan

It’s because he teaches mans word not God’s!!!!!!!

Brooke

You obviously haven’t seen his sermons. He mentions God, The Father, The Holy Spirit, and Jesus almost as much as he blinks. I really like Joel, so I’m not being harsh! And, for the record.. He did mention God in the whole interview. This clip isn’t the whole thing.

This is why Joel Osteen should be labelled a deceiver. He said himself that his core message is “how do you have a healthy self-image, how do you let go of the past”. If he (Osteen) were a preacher of the gospel, his message would be that of repentance. Jesus said in Luke 19:10 “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost”. THAT should be his core message, then living a holy life should follow. Jesus said (Mat 9:15) “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits…”. Some might argue that O has 45,ooo people, but I would say if those were truely living the gospel- We could change the world!! Boy, what could God do with 45t men, women, and children who were living surrendered lives for God!!! Not so. They continue to live for themselves and the worldly pleasure that Satan uses to destroy. Sad. Beware believers…

Leo Buckley

The Bible says to always make your answers either “yes, yes, or no, no.” Osteen just doesn’t want to “really focus on a lot of those things.” He wants to “stay in
my lane of what I feel called to do” and “that’s not my core message.” What a farce. No surprise that pro-sodomy “marriage” Glenn Beck supports Osteen.

ScaryLogic

Are you just pulling random thoughts out of your butt? Prove to me that Glenn Beck is “pro sodomy”

Paul Rowden

ALL have sinned and fall short in the eyes of GOD.
No sin is greater than any other.
Love thy neighbor as you love yourself.
I think that about covers it. GOD bless you and have a great day.

nrgxmsn

This is why the today’s church the Laodecian church is so weak and spineless no wonder God will remove their our candlestick if we don’t repent and return to our first Love Jesus Christ and His Word.

Santiago

Man, Joel Osteen needs to take a stand. By avoiding this issue he does not stand for marriage, as it is Biblicaly defined as between one woman and one man. By not defining it, he is basicallySantiago giving the left a victory. Take the persecution Joel, who cares. They persecuted Christ. Take a stand for the Gospel. Marriage is ordained by God as we see at the beginning of Genesis and it is the first institution that God creates. He creates earth, man and woman, animals and then he creates marriage because God saw that it was not good for man to be alone and created Eve, to be a helper suitable for Adam. As a result, God orchestrated the first marriage, and it was blessed y God. Marriage is ordained by God. That is why it is in the sight of the Almighty. That is why marriage is between a man and woman, and was created as such. God did not design it to be between man and man or woman and woman. He didn’t even design it for female and male animals. It is also a representation of Christ to the church. It is an expression of the Gospel. Anything else is a farse and is not marriage. Joel Osteen, needs to stand up for Biblical institutions and not worry about someones self image, or best life now. Go to the Bible Joel, because it never fails and stick up for Christ at the same time. There are bigger problems in the world than poor self esteem. Man Up, and not be ashamed of the Gospel because it is the power of God unto salvation, for the Jew first and then the Greek. God gave you a platform Joel, use it.

ScaryLogic

He’s a motivational speaker. Why would he do that? People need to stop projecting their hopes of what they want this guy to be and accept the fact that he isn’t simply another solider in the conservative agenda.

Marcia Young McGinty

It is in his best interest financially to stay neutral on this subject.

Leo Buckley

Bingo. The moneychangers like to stay neutral.

Nikkie

I think what Joel is trying to say is that we dont have to cram the disapproval of someones’s sexual preference down the throats of the disapproving and vice versa and that we can all still deal with God in our own terms in the privacy of HIM and the individual, regardless what our beliefs are on gay marriage.

lexingtonnchick

He can’t answer that because the gays will be attacking his church. You don’t have to be anti-gay to be anti-gay marriage. I don’t believe in marriage for gays, I think its a religious ceremony between man and woman but I think they can go and have their unions or whatever they want to call it. I got a gay kid and people don’t believe in what she does (including me) but I accept and love her and hey if you don’t like it, dont come over for dinner. But in my home you will respect her and leave your sermon at the door. Luckily I have a child who is not some freak protester calling everyone bigots who don’t believe what she does. We are all entitled to our beliefs mine are not more important than yours but yours are no more important than mine. People need to agree to disagree without hate.

http://wsimpson.wordpress.com William D Simpson

Heretic…

ScaryLogic

LOL

Lorene Wagner

I think that it is because, regardless of how they try, the core of their being knows the truth. You can beat the truth to death, try to condemn it, try to silence it, and try to trap it. But you can’t. It is STILL the TRUTH and the TRUTH will never be silenced. I don’t believe that people are ‘born that way’. God does not go against Himself.
What decisions people make is between themselves and God. I don’t judge people, that is God’s business. I do respect peoples privacy and would like them to respect mine. I have a right to my opinion just as everyone else has a right to their own opinion. I don’t think it is right for any one group or agenda to demand that everyone has to be in agreement with them.

Guest

What people do is between themselves and God. I don’t condemn anyone. I just don’t have to agree with them.

Jaime McDaniel

Being Gay is a sin? Against God and the Bible? Then why does God create Gay people? How many people have you seen in your life that have physical features that you just know they are gay. Gay guys many years ago were called fancy pants and etc. The way they talked, the way they looked you and moved you could just tell. Even going back to elementary and middle school. That is the way they were born. How do you explain people that were born with both genitals, it is just in the genes. I am not Gay but I am sure they do not choose to be the way they are. They were born that way which is nature, genes, and guess who is nature and created Genes? God. They are God’s creatures also just like us, no difference. From the time I was a kid growing up in Church it always amazed me how Christians were so judge mental and picked and chose what they wanted to follow in the Bible to fit their needs and beliefs and just ignored other things.

hairdr

If your called to preach the word of God you DO NOT pick and Choose what parts of the BIBLE your going to Preach From ! You Preach Gods Word in it’s entirety standing for the TRUTH Boldly and Unashamed ! But then again My Osteen is a motivational Speaker and not a Preacher , so of course he can pick and Choose his conversations.

Christine Guinn

WHy not? People pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to acknowledge and ignore. How many so-called “Christians” are against gay marriage, but are adulterers or fornicators, etc.?

Anonymous

Maybe I misunderstood Glenn, but I don’t feel his stand is dividing his house (congregation). He was forthright in his personal opinion based on what he believes, but making gays feel comfortable to come to his congregation simply means he’s accepting all people on the as-is policy. Christ did not hang out with perfect people. Every single person in his church has sin. We would like to think not, but that is not realistic. Going to church does not exempt you from temptation and sin. If you look at the numbers out there that are frankly scary about the number of women who profess to be Christian in some form, but have had an abortion, wow. Just mind-blowing. It wasn’t gay men getting those women pregnant, and then compelling those women to have an abortion. And lesbians aren’t getting each other pregnant then having abortions. The divorce and adultery rate among Christians is staggering, along with the number of Christians who admit to pre-marital sex. Every day we see reports in the media about clergy in different churchs behaving inappropriately with children or having affairs. We act like homosexuality is the only sin in the bible God cares about, and yet non-gay Christians are reeking with sexual sin and adding the shedding of innocent blood besides. Loving people and making them feel welcome is not compromising our beliefs. Christ would have done the same thing. The only people in the scriptures you ever see or hear Jesus getting angry with and rebuking, or publicly calling on the carpet for their sins were the Scribes and Pharisee’s.

Skye Flynn

Marriage is a Rite. Not a Right.

Christine Guinn

No, it is both. The Supreme Court has clearly ruled that marriage is a basic human right.

Skye Flynn

well, post a link to where the Supreme Court ruled on that and in that manner. And then show me where they describe what humans this applies to: Just humans in general? Consenting human adults? Human children? A mix of the two? How many can subscribe to the marriage at a time? My point was that God instituted marriage among his children to help us achieve His purposes. Therefore marriage is a religiously maintained institution that men are trying to corrupt.

Skye Flynn

you can’t, because the Supreme Court has not ruled on this issue at this time. Its why this is still a state issue not a federal issue. Please leave your ignorance at the door.

Desiree Klemme

Sad that he danced around the issue…. read your Bible people. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Leviticus 18:22Lord help us when a man of God doesn’t stand up for what is right.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but
after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having
itching ears; 2 Timothy 4:3

Very disappointed with Joel Osteen.

Anonymous

These things will be. “they will be giving and taking in marriage…” It is not my place to judge the right or wrong of it for another. As for me… I will strive to remain close to the exhortations and let be what I can not change.

Meghan Wiseley

Wow he really weiseled out of answering that question. If he is a man of God then he should have been able to stand fast in his faith and answer that question head on. Nice job beating around the bush Osteen.

tammy

wait a minute, the news anchor said, 45,000 are gay…for insistence _____ is.
who did he say was gay?

Mac

I dont know why Joel is not ready to face the Media. The Bible totally forbids Gay Marriage, then what else remains to compromise? Joel, let your Yes be Yes and your No be No apart from that is from the evil!

karen

i believe Joel showed some wisdom there… be wise as a serpant, but gentle as a dove!!

Matthew Trotter

Things like this just make me want to cry. How can anyone call themselves a christian but look down and spit on the gay culture? Thats not christianity. How can any christian say they are against gay marriage? Doesn’t the bible say “Do onto others, as you would like them to do onto you”? Taking the time out of your day to slam someone else’s culture and lifestyle is NOT what you would want done onto you. Doesn’t the Bible also say “Judge not, or you too shall be judged”? PLEASE stop your condemning to hell! Jesus spoke and taught about the GRACE of God. Matthew 12:31 says ” Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven men.” Which means that sinning, all types of sins, even being gay, will be FORGIVEN. 1 Peter 4:8 says ” Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another because love covers a multitude of sin.” And if you ask me, it seems like Gay people have a great love for each other, you (even though you condemn and judge them), their FAMILY, and they absolutely adore their children they choice to have or adopt. So if your looking for a guilty party, you need only look in a mirror. LOVE ONE ANOTHER, WE ARE ALL FAMILY.

Romey B

I’m a Christian and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. The union between same-sex couples is known to be called “domestic partnership”. Anyhow, the point I’m trying to make is that I will not ever defend or support the “lifestyle” of homosexuality, however, it isn’t my place to stop people from living that way because God gave everybody free will. If anybody, regardless of their walk in life wants to know Jesus, I’m happy to share out of love. Each individual is accountable for their own choices. It amazes me how the media likes to focus only on homosexuality. There’s other sins out there like murder, greed, gluttony, fornication, and theft. Divorce is also something God spoke against unless one of the spouses committed adultery. But like Je’kob Washington said, “Our duty as Christians is to love and let God be the judge.”

Christine Guinn

Christians and heterosexual couples do not own the word “marriage.”

Tracy Fearson

Alas, for many I think you miss the point. Jesus in multiple passages makes it clear that no one, including a Pastor, is to judge others, that is reserved for God. So, as for gay marriage, Joel making no proclamation of judgement is a correct response.

Yes, the Bible does refer to it as an abomination. Yes, the Bible does say they will be put to death. As demonstrated by Jesus, adultery caries the same penalty but, it is for God to met judgement on this, not man.

So, yes, welcome all sinners (adulterer, homosexual and fornicator alike) and preach to them the word and teachings of God as it is written but, leave the judgement to God. For Jesus will weigh the truth of their repentance or lack there of.

Anonymous

I am sorry but you are mistaken. Christians are called to judge and judge righteously. It tells us to remove the log from our own eye before removing the speck in our brothers. So we need to be righteous before we judge others because we will be brought under additional scrutiny as a result of that judgment. Christians are supposed to correct our brothers in love and mercy but we are supposed to correct them and not lead them astray. So who ever told you that Christians cant judge has lead you astray and you need to discuss this with them because they have done you a great disservice. But more importantly you need to bring it to their attention so they will stop because their punishment will be severe. It is better to tie a millstone around you neck and be thrown in the lack than to lead one of these my children astray.

Rmansheim

Sorry but you are mistaken. The bible says just the opposite. Matthew 7:1-6
1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5You
hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will
see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

I dont see where in this direct word from Jesus it says, now that I have taken care of my sins and can talk about yours. I see what you are getting at with Matt. 7:5 but I highly doubt your sins are so far gone that you can focus on another.

Tracy Fearson

Alas, I do believe you are the one lacking in understanding. I take my position from the word and teachings of Jesus Christ.

All men have sinned. A lesser or greater sin does not change the fact that we have all sinned.

Jesus makes clear we are to focus on putting our own house in order first and foremost, not others.

“Let he who be without sin cast the first stone” – Since none of us are without sin, the condemnation and judgement is not ours to make. I remains with the Lord.

Anonymous

I know that every time someone asks me my views on gay marriage my eyes widen real big and I say OH Thank you for asking me about the bible let me share the good news with you. They generally try to change the subject and get away quickly at that point but if they stay they get to hear the gospel. I then tell them it doesn’t really matter what I think about gay marriage the bible has made that completely clear when it was written. and can I share more of the good news with you about how we are all sinners and fall short,. And how Jesus came to earth as the word in flesh and died for our sins if only we will accept him into our lives we can be saved.

Susan

And to Repent for all our sins you can fall so far that just believing can’t save you!

http://truthofg.blogspot.com/ Connor Kenway

Joel you need to preach the word no matter how people take it.

John Cotton

There has been a lot of hostile discussion over the SCTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) decision against DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act). I thought maybe I would put my two cents in the ring on this one. I am a Christian and I believe first and foremost that faith in Jesus Christ as my savior is the only way to eternal life. Now stating that I am not saying I live a picture perfect life that others should follow, far from it. I sin just as all of us do. I will sin again, but not because I am struggling not too. Believe me it is a daily struggle.
According to the word that God has given us homosexuality is a sin just as adultery is a sin just as many others are a sin/abomination in Gods eyes. God commands us not to participate in these things. We as sinners will sin and do these things but the difference for us as Christians is to turn away from these things and not to continue in them. If you are truly a Christian and you do these things you will know you have done so against Gods will because you will feel his disapproval in your heart believe me you will know. In Romans chapter 1 the word states that if you continue to live in these sins God will turn us over to our “reprobate mind”. Romans chapter 1:28. (Rep-or-bate) 1. A morally unprincipled person. 1. Rejected by God and without hope of salvation. To better understand this it would be wise to read the whole of Romans chapter 1.
I believe this means that if you are truly a Christian and you do any of these things you will feel Gods disapproval in your heart and know you have sinned against God and not want to continue in these things. Therefore if you are not truly a Christian you will do these things and continue to do these things not feeling Gods disapproval thinking it is ok to continue to live your life this way. I know I am a Christian because of my struggle.
Now in Romans chapter 2 I believe the word commands us not to judge anyone as we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God. That is for God and God alone to do. However that does not mean that we should condone their sin. (Con-done) 1. Accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue. I feel as though as a Christian it is our job to lovingly share the hope of God’s grace and salvation through Jesus Christ and Christ alone. Not in a spiteful manner but in a graceful loving manner. Who are we to show such hate and anger toward one another. As Jesus hung on the cross the day he died he suffered for all of our sin and wickedness. He saw every abomination/sin every living person on earth has ever committed against his father in heaven. He was beaten his flesh was ripped from his body and he was stabbed. Those are just the things that we the actual sinners did to him. We could never comprehend the torture he went through for all of our wickedness while he was in the hands of Satan. Yet did he show us anger or turn against us? No he looked to the heavens and cried out to his father. Forgive them they know not what they do! He showed us all nothing but love.
So we as a Godly Nation should not (condone) what the SCTUS did in passing this un-Godly Law, but we should not turn also against one another and show hate and anger but rather show each other love. So as a Christian do not stand and pass judgment for others sins because that is not our duty, but show unto others Christ’s love and mercy and share his message so that all may see and hear it and want that kind of forgiveness and love in their life too.

SSG John M Cotton.

Joseph

That was the best post I’ve read so far. Moving on.

Anonymous

Why should we be surprised when non-believers try to bait believers into saying something that can be used to make them look bad? The Pharisees were doing it to Jesus in the days before His crucifixion as well, and as He said, the servant is no greater than the master. If you want to take up your cross and follow Him, you’d better get used to the idea that you aren’t going to be the most popular person in town, you will be lied about and manipulated, and they will try to destroy you. That’s why He told us to count the cost first.

IanP84

Homosexuality is a Sin, Marriage is between a man and a woman, the bible says so. How can a pastor just skate around the issue? What he should have said was: “Yes homosexuality is a Sin, however we still love and accept everyone how they are, we will love someone in their junk and sin. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Not one sin is greater than another.” God Loves ALL of his people the same. If i do not love homosexuals, but i love someone who lies or steals, its Hippocratic.

Life is not all about health, wealth, and prosperity, there is a lot of hurt, sadness, and fear in life. I am tired of seeing pastors like Joel whom do not address real issues in peoples lives. Its all about relationships and discipleship. Telling me that tomorrow will be better doesn’t help, lets talk about what i can do to increase my faith, or prayer life, or my relationship with the lord,.. only then can i learn to overcome and forgive.

Besides what the bible says about the sin of gay marriage, I believe that ALL people are created equal, and this country’s laws state that we all have certain unalienable rights.This doesn’t mean icondone homosexuality or that it isn’t sin, it’s just that American citizens have equal rights under the protection of the constitution.

-“That’s all i have to say about that” -Forrest Gump

ScaryLogic

He’s a motivational speaker.

Trisha Herom

Yes Love the Sinner HATE the Sin !!! but,, MY God NEVER Changes !!! He CREATED MALE to be with FEMALE,, and if YOU are a Born again Believer then ABSOLUTE-LEE GAY MARRIAGE IS A NO !!! MY God did NOT Create two men nor two women to share their bodies with each other !!! Plain and Simple !!! NO EXCUSES !! and if you say you are a Christian and you Believe it is OK for men to be with men and women to be with women then YOU are NOT a TRUE Christian !!!! the DEVIL IS a LIAR !!!! he comes to STEAL, DESTROY AND KILL !!!!!!!!! Sincerely,, Trisha Herom….

John

There is man’s law and God’s law. Man’s law started out based on the truths of God’s law but has veered away from it because of sin. Jesus gave His life on the cross for everyone’s sin. Homosexuality, murder, stealing, lying – they are all sins. God loves us, not our sins and we are commanded to do the same thing, love the person not their sins. A believer in Christ is taught to lead those that have gone astray back into a life that lines up as taught from the Word. It never said to be ugly and hateful to anyone, no matter what their sin. Believers are taught to pray for one another as that is the weapon God has given us to use to defeat the enemy from the lives of others. Even if some people choose to continue to walk in sin, we pray for them and their salvation before it is too late. Jesus told Peter to put the sword away as those that fight by the sword will die by the sword. Matthew 26:51-53. With faith standing on God’s promises we have the same divine protection that Christ had while He was here on earth. He came to bring us salvation but also to prove to us we can do greater things than He did, by faith.
As for Christians that feel they should go out and retaliate because they feel attacked, please read Matthew 10:34-39. Jesus told us He did not come to send peace on earth, but a sword, not a sword that we pick up for ourselves. Believers in Jesus the Christ will be under attack from many directions because of what they believe and it is not the believers duty to fight back with violence and cruel words but with prayer and by being an example, loving one another as we have been commanded to do. Public gatherings while praying about sinful practices, handing out flyers and material explaining the sins and how to come to Christ, these are ways that can be used and it lines up with the Word, this is the way Jesus did it. He visited cities and towns and told them the good news. He taught them about salvation and sin. He demonstrated His love toward them. Was He rejected? Absolutely, but this man, the Son of God, voluntarily gave His life for everyone on this earth so we would have a chance to choose eternity with Him.
(Matthew 28:19) Each believer has their part to do in His Kingdom, it may be praying in front of an abortion clinic, it may be praying on the street for those that are caught up into sin, no matter the sin, but it is never to attack and demean, that is what the enemy does. The devil has many in his grasp and they don’t even know it, they think it is just them. The devil has even mislead many Christians and they are not even aware of it (Matthew 24:24). This is not religion, not being religious, this is having a personal relationship with God and His Son, claiming God as your Father and Jesus as your Lord. It is not about following a set of rules which is religion, but by living and doing in ourselves what His Word teaches, being an example to those around us, willing to confess and not deny the Christ before men so He won’t do the same for us before God. It is a choice we have and God made it easy for us by giving His Son for our salvation. We have a way out of all of this but many do not choose this path – the way to destruction is broad (Matthew 7:13). Think as a parent when your rebellious teenager goes the wrong way and no matter what you say or do, they continue into what they think is right. Your heart is broken and it may devastate you. At times these teenagers realize what they have done is wrong and come back to the parents to be forgiven and brought back into the family (Luke 15:11-24). The Christ and all the angels are overjoyed when someone repents and turns away from their sin and gives their life over to Jesus. You think maybe Jesus and the angels know much more than what we truly realize?
Lastly, Matthew 24:37-47 – believing fathers & husbands, as the head of your house, stand guard diligently watching for the attacks of the enemy through media and places you go, don’t allow his lies and misconceptions into your hearts, home or family. Wives, stand with your husbands in faith praying and believing in the promises of God. Obey God’s Word and be the example with the Christ that is in you for your children. The world is getting more dangerous, be aware of your surroundings.

Irene Elizabeth Grooms

Well if that is there life style then they’ll answer for how they live not you or me.

Brenda Slegona

My take on this is…………..they can’t pro-create and that’s a blessing. There are many things we are born with and into. We may have a tendency in our brain to steal (cleptomania) but we must NOT do it. We may have a tendency to pedophilia, but we must NOT do it……we may have a tendency to start fires (pyromania) but we must NOT do it. I feel homosexuality is abnormal in God’s eyes. He doesn’t condone it or bless it, but gays can have their own free will and do whatever they want, but not that and get a blessing from God Almighty.Their choice , by all means.

Christine Guinn

You DO realize that homosexuals come from heterosexual parents, right?

The reason they ask this question is because there has been a lot of damnation against homosexuals. People arent jumping off bridges, committing suicide or being disowned by their parents because of anything else in the bible, but this. Its an issue, they have a right to question it. The best answer would be, let God judge them…because it doesnt matter if you are Joel Osteen (♥ u Joel btw) or any other person, the only one who can judge each soul, is God himself.

Shells

And my faith tells me to mind my own business and to not judge anyone. I do believe this was mentioned in the bible. How come people dont answer that when questioned about gays/lesbians?

Shells

How can any Christian get on here and say “its your soul at stake, not mine” seriously, I guess gays and lesbians are the only ones who sin.

Betsy Wactor- Mathews

People get sidetracked on what it means to repent from sin and start making a list. Our “sin” that keeps us from God is unbelief. If we acknowledge him, accept his forgiveness for our refusal to bow down t him, then the rest will fall into place as we build our relationship with him. We will never be perfect in this life. Each of us carries our own inner war against our selfish desires, whatever they may be. The Bible teaches that our learning is precept upon precept. The Holy Spirit determines which sins we will fall under conviction for, according to his plan for our growth. It’s not fair to try and do His job and tell others what they should be doing at any given time (unless we know they’ve already learned that lesson). However, in our desire to keep a continuity of belief within the church we have to have some boundaries for the church community. Those are hard lines to draw and each community has to make their own decision. Mission churches can afford to be more liberal than family churches, etc. It’s not “one size fits all” when it comes to churches, but it is when it comes to God himself.

dannyboy

We are all going to have our day of judgement and stand before Jesus. Even all leaders of all nations will be judged. There will be no escape. I will follow and believe what the bible says about traditional marriage because I will account for what I believe and taught. Jesus Himself said,” A man shall leave his mother and father and cling to his wife and the 2 shall become one.” That is the Son of God speaking of marriage.

Anonymous

I think the message here is that it is a life lesson on the importance of love. Just love…that’s all. Not who you love – it’s THAT YOU LOVE AT ALL. Whomever he or she shall be. As I read these posts BELOW, I see that some of you are judgy-judgemental. “(You have to be married to have sex! or marriage is between a man and a woman”) I’m a straight, white girl – I want to know this: SAYS WHO??? The Bible? I went to Catholic school – I received a great education – but it’s a BUSINESS! RELIGION IS A BUSINESS!! Do NOT FORGET!!

Cathy Thebeloved

Actually Joel, the things you mention to be your core message will mean very little to anyone if they miss the message of the cross.

ScaryLogic

Torture? The cross was a torture device.

Cathy Thebeloved

Exactly, Jesus was tortured in our place for our sin so we could escape it’s penalty or wage which is Death.

ScaryLogic

Nah, the atonement was in the garden.. the cross was just because he had to die. I get what it’s intended to symbolize, but it is a symbol of death regardless.

Guest

Exactly, Jesus was tortured in our place for our sin so we could escape it’s penalty or wage which is Death.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ Baroke Insane Owebama

Translation: I don’t want to criticize anyone because then they won’t send me money.

Joel Barnes

What is so sad, they will believe a lie and be damned

2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV)
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Gwen Shenk

God gave his only son…..that who so ever believes in him shall have everlasting life. We as Christians are to be more like him. We are to help others in wanting to know God more. We are to show compassion for one another and not hatred just because someone is different, or because of ones religion etc. God sent his disciples to go out and preach his word…not condemn them….but to love all people as Jesus did when he walked this earth. Jesus knew it was not easy to walk this earth….but he left us with knowing God truly loves each of us….and for me….we all should pray for one another and not talk about each other in negative ways….God has given each of us a talent or gift that we are to use so that we may help others to come to know him. We are to lift one another up in prayer and learn how to treat each other. The only one….who will judge us all is God . So we all need to listen and hear what God tells each one of us.

Megan

I will never understand why all of these ppl what to be recognized and identified by what they do in their bedrooms. They will answer to God, fret not. Don’t concern yourselves or let your judgment consume you. Love them, pray for them, and move on living for His favor.

Bobby

I dont think he ever actually answered the question…He’s afraid he will lose a monetary contributor

http://www.joyasdelacorona.com Yasmin Romanach

Loving people regardless of what they ‘DO” does NOT MEAN to “APROVE”. Keep in mind, there is NOTHING you can do, to make people change, BUT there is TOO MUCH GOD CAN DO to bring them to the Light, and set people free…!

Anti Fabian

It is not a sin to be gay. The sin is sex outside the bonds of marriage. Does not matter if you are gay or straight. If you are having sex outside the bonds of marriage, you will get to answer to the God of Heaven one day. God certainly does not condone gay marriage, so sex for gays is gonna be a problem for those who engage in it come the day of judgement. What a lot of people do not understand is that it does hurt our communities if gay sexuality through marriage is legalized. God blesses us as individuals and families, but he also blesses us as communities and nations. If the majority of a nation are accepting and engaging in deliberate sinful activity, we are cutting ourselves off as a nation from receiving the blessings of heaven and being able to prosper with his guidance.

Clay Slape

IMHO, Joel Osteen is a Preacher for Profit. His word is based not on the bible but rather on Prosperity Theology. He is no better than Jim & Tammy Fae Baker or Jimmy Swaggart or Oral Roberts.

I stick with my Bible and forget what preachers in pulpits have to say or think. They don’t have to tell me what the Bible says because I can read it for myself. My bible says that Yahweh GOD has already judged the homosexuals as he called them “abominations”. They live a lifestyle by choice instead of living right according to scripture (the word and will of Yahweh GOD).

Shawn Cameron

For crying out loud look who was interviewing him. It’s amazing he didn’t get baited into a racial discussion.

http://www.facebook.com/sissandra.kendell candygurl1

why why why doe media continue to force the issue of gay marriage on the community of believers in Christ. No matter what we think gay marriage will become a common placed event/happening so can we please let them come and let them go as we strive to deepen our personal relationship with Christ. Their place has already been prepared so please…move on…NEXT…..

Zachary Pitts

I do not hate homosexuals, but I hate their sin. I believe as Christians we should tell it like it is told in the Bible. Sure we may offend people, but it is our responsibility to spread the word. Jesus even said things that caused people to be offended, but he did it out of love. If we are scared of offending somebody by telling the truth, then how can we spread God’s word? We should do our part and spread God’s word with love and compassion and let the person choose whether to accept it or not.

Anonymous

The sinner has to put aside their obsessions and focus on moving forward using their strengths to combat satan.. The devil will always hit you where it hurts and tell you lies about yourself..

Ernie Seagraves

Dove selling is not of God. Jesus chase those out with a whip. However I do not feel it is for us to judge but God only has an opinion. But I feel Joel needs to consider why he does not preach what he believes to be the truth. We should all teach what we eel is true. If money/pew slots is his motivation it is wrong. I say this so otheers may learn no in any way a judgement of Joel.

ace1usmc .

Mr. Osteen should be a politician. It seems like he’s better suited for that role, rather than one who should be speaking the truth – the WHOLE truth of the Word. I think his response is so politically correct, and carefully chosen so as not to offend, that it borderlines on the cowardly.

suzyshopper

What,a pastor is too bring the whole counsel of God, heaven,hell, judgement,not help ppl let go, of the past, make them feel good about themselves. They are called to win souls, preach ALLL of the gospel, not just the pleasant things.

Rocio Maryott

John 13:34-35 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you.” God love ALL of us.

Audrea Rachelle Garcia

I agree with Joel Osteen. It’s God’s place to judge, not ours. I don’t recall Jesus walking around judging people. In fact, the time he could have stoned the adulterous woman in the Bible – since He was the only one without sin – He didn’t condemn her. We should act like Jesus did and just love people.

Trisha1480

Most homosexuals are not Christians anyways, so why would they care what the Bible has to say about their lifestyle? I can understand if you are gay, and a Christian, and are somehow trying to justify your lifestyle with what the Bible teaches, but I really don’t get non-Christians drilling Christians with this question. I believe in live and let live, but if someone outright asked me if I think homosexuality is a sin, I would have to say yes. God made us man and woman for a reason. Our parts fit together as they are supposed to, and we can procreate. That is not true for homosexuals. God also made us sexual beings with minds and feelings. Whether you can control your feelings or attractions is not the point, it is the fact that it was not the intention when we were created to be with the same sex. Carnal sins are some of the hardest sins for us humans to deny. That is why pornography is so popular, and adultery, and premarital sex is so common. I do not believe the lie that if you are homosexual, you will go to hell. That is a lie. The truth is that if you believe in Jesus as your savior, and ask for forgiveness of your sins, you will receive eternal life. We all live in sin, and though we may try to not sin, we are not entirely successful.

Ok that is Joel Osteen side stepping the question. He is right we all have issues, and we should not point out the splinter in our brothers eye when there is a plank in ours, but we are to build each other up in the Lord, and not cause our brothers and sisters to stumble. Some say, Jesus did not judge, he forgave and forgives sin, but he also commanded them to go and sin no more. Just as a loving father would not let his child continue to do wrong, we should do the same. Rebuke in love. The problem is that todays society cant comprehend the difference between loving a person, but not accepting a lifestyle. They think, if you don;’t accept their actions, you dont accept them.

Shellie S Gonzalez

Gay people have chosen to live how they live and be with who they are with; it’s no ones choice but theirs, they ask people if what they are doing is “against the rules?” why should we answer, it has been their free choice. They do as they please without regard to their fellow human beings and they don’t care or they would not exercise public promiscuity. They seem to be attracted to what opposes them and look for the negativity or shock of their circumstance and when it is no longer shocking; they fall into boredom to create fiascos to amuse themselves. If they want to be gay, let them and avoid being drug into their attempts to make an argument where there isn’t any anymore. They soon will try something different until they realize the real truth and they will either be satiated or live as God wants them to live, because it’s not my choice and it’s not God’s choice and if they want to be delivered all that needs to be done on their part is to say, “In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost I commit my spirit to you Lord Jesus, and believe in Jesus and avoid those who will now oppose them. Simple as pie and no one in this world is perfect but only one man was, is and forever shall be Jesus; it is by Him and His name alone that saves us; this brings us faith and the faith allows us to have discernment, to repent and to make all we do better for the Kingdom of God and our works will follow us to heaven as is discovered by reading the book of Revelation and all of the other books would feed the hungry soul.

Sherri

They are attacking him. He didn’t write the bible. I also believe there are many religions that feel being gay is a sin. In the middle Eastern countries they will behead you for being gay!!!

Wendy Willett

We are all God’s children and it is not our place to judge others. If God is our Father in heaven, then we are all created as He planned us to be created. Personally I do not believe in Gay marriage because I was raised in the Catholic faith. However, I do believe that the message of God is to love one another and praise and love Him above all. He is not a religion, He is universal, love, mercy, and forgiveness. I do not believe that one specific religion is correct as they are all designed to serve the needs of mankind’s view of what we should believe in. Nowadays I am more of a Nosicist – one that believes they can pray anytime, anywhere to God, and have a divine connection. It is not my place to judge anyone, that is God’s job on Judgment Day. I have friends on Facebook that are Gay, however I do not hold it against them or look at them differently than my other friends. They are the nicest people one could ever know and I would never trade their friendship, most especially because of their personal sexual preference. What they do behind closed doors is their business. We are all human designed by God. Instead of people being focused on gay marriage, and whether or not it is wrong or legal, people should be more focused on feeding the poor, making a difference in the world to clean up the water supply, helping those in times of war and crime, and bringing peace to the middle east. If people spent as much time on prayer as they do on what is acceptable when it comes to gay people, maybe there would be more miracles in the world, more peace, more acceptance of each other. There is a war going on in Israel that takes the lives of innocent children and people, yet there are groups and individuals who worry more about gay people and what they should be privileged to have or not have. Let them live their life for God’s sake! It isn’t mine or your business to judge them! The Muslim military is pushing their fake god’s religious beliefs on Jews and Christians in Israel, and they are trying to push it on us in the USA. If a Muslim government or person doesn’t like the fact that we are a country with religious freedom to love and believe in our Holy Father in heaven, then DON’T COME HERE! DON’T GO TO ISRAEL! You have no right to violate our freedom or anyone’s for that matter! As I said, God’s message is to believe in Him. Love Him and his Son who died through Grace to save our souls, and also to love one another, and stop fighting over religions that are man made. Let God worry about the choices we each make when it’s our time to face Him on Judgment Day. That will be the day the truth will be revealed as to who or what is right or wrong. It’s His job, not ours. Live in PEACE.

Dorian Saunders

It is against liberal media’s nature to ask those kinds of questions unless it is to ridicule. However, there is tons of hypocrisy on both sides.

Marie

I sure wish they would ask my pastor that question because he will give you a answer straight out of the bible.

Charles R. Brooks Jr.

Get with the flow Osteen! You are called to preach the whole Bible message, not just the ones you want to or are too controversial. If you don’t, then you’re preaching heresy and tickling ears just as same as a preacher who isn’t saved or right with God.

Todd

Love the sinner but don’t associate with them (says the bible). God will not be mocked. God is clear in the bible: homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God!
No, I will not make them a cake!

Anonymous

Sin is sin, no big or little sins in the sight of God, no matter who commits it or how its commited,where its coming from! We all have come short of Gods Glory! We must use wisdom when answering questions, at the same time we can’t tip toe around anybodies wrong doings for fear of losing members or any other reason, because while we are tip toeing somebody needs to know the truth to be free! I Love people regardless! Jesus walked among the sinners to draw them, even though He commited no sin! Love people back to God by showing Genuine Love and sharing Gods Word!

Recenah Trover

You either believe Gods word or you dont ! Cant white wash it He said its between a man and a woman ! Tell it the way it is thats our calling ! Love them , pray for them , but the word is black , white , and red , we cant change it because it offends sorry ! I have to believe the whole book not just parts that make us feel good !!

lLottie Holman

My advise is that there is only one God and the only way to get to the father is though Jesus, and myself and any one else cant Judge ,we all should let God take judgement of these people. And each of us to stay in the word of God.

TAL

go to http://www.compellingtruth.com type in this and many other subject and read for yourself what the bible says in context concerning this and many other topics. People always take it of context to fit what they want it to say. remember when reading scripture you have to find the what the text is about. Its not a book to read quickly its to be studied for what it is. It is the word of God and it changes peoples lives for the better. Some can go overboard just like with anything in this world but its time to see what Gods word says for yourself and stop pretending that you know it when you don’t. It is a way to connect with and learn, and know our God is ever present in a world that wants to feed us lies and distort the truth of what He created us all to be. It is obvious that most on here do not want someone to tell them the truth so go and find it for yourself in Gods word. He is the only one who can speak truth to you and really show you His will.

Tammy Squires

Of course it’s the only question…and why??? Because the church has himhawed around and decided to compromise on so many other “sins” that since they are not compromising on the gay thing , society wants to know why…I agree with Glenn Beck…keep followers of Jesus Christ focused on the mainstream issues and they won’t be focused their calling…which is preaching the gospel…and also…there is no such thing as a lifestyle sin…sin is sin is sin is sin! My gluttony is no different then their homosexuality or someone else’s pride or lying tongue (which by the way is also called manipulation or deception)…if you’re a follower of Jesus Christ and want to share His love wiht the rest of the world, then do it…quit worrying about whether they will love or hate you cause I can answer that one based on Matthew…they will hate you…so now you know…make your decision whether you are for or against Him…then move forward…

Anonymous

Homosexuality is not a sin. That is kind of the whole point.

Tammy Squires

Why do you say it is not a sin?

Anonymous

I believe that Jesus, as he sees the world today, can see the true love that unites faithful gay couples. This union, based on this love, cannot in itself be a sin. But yes, maybe there is also lust, but that is a sin that has no gender bias. I believe in God, I’m gay, I don’t see why I need your permission to not choose between the two.

http://suzeraining.wordpress.com/ suz

…because we ‘PROBABLY’ shouldn’t steal?

Tanya Powell

Joel Osteen said in an interview with Oprah, that being Gay was not the way of the Bible.
Maybe Just …maybe The person who was doing the interview wanted to find bad in him.

If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will.”
~Abraham Lincoln

MAYBE more of us humans needs to find the good in people!!

WHAT you all forget…God made the gays and they need to be shown God’s love!
Then their decision to be not gay is with that person’s and God.

The best thing anyone can do is show God Love, not find fault.

We see Jesus everyday in the face of EVERY person!

DougieFresh Garrett

ITs not for Joel to say , I agree with him, ….people who have chosen this path are supported by some and not by others, being such a Human situation such a polarizing situation where if you don’t agree you are chastised and if you do agree then your morals are considered broken…..Save yourself…the others must take their own god given responsibility to appear before God , and thier piers with their lifes work their only resume for entry into the hereafter. my personal opinion is that your life should not be focus’ed and ran primarily on your sexual preference. Be a good person and that does not require parades or bumperstickers or being hateful to those who do not agree with your beliefs….that goes for both sides. DFresh

Mary A. Frederick Moir

Dear folks who have posted comments here : I will not argue or profess my particular beliefs here…BUT i will say this : Do yourselves a great favor, keep an open heart and mind and
take the time to READ “Letter to Louise” by Bruce Lowe. it is posted on line…it is quite long (40+ pages) but is a fantastic research report that covers many parts of the marriage discussion. If you are willing to learn and truly have an open heart….read this piece.

Anonymous

So… this is the rant wall where the actual unabashed gay bashing expresses it self. Like the digital subconscious of American conservatism.

DougieFresh Garrett

you seem to be the one stressed out , I really don’t see unabashed gay bashing …as if ones Bashing can be unabashed….so relax and don’t be the one smartmouthing the bully,,, and maybe you’ll leave class without the teachers escourt

Nikki Kracht

Joel olsteen is a motivational speaker,,,NOT a Man of God……..Otherwise he would tell the truth as it is written in the bible. Do not be fooled by him

Jeff

It’s not are place to judge we are sapose to love everyone,, what they do on earth, if its wrong God will tend to it, why do we worry about things that don’t concern us what would Jesus do?

Mike

“It’s ‘gay,’ ‘gay,’ ‘gay,’ ‘gay,’ ‘gay.’” That is because they are on a mission for their movement and are intolerable to anybody’s opinions that do not agree with their own. The real question s/b…”Is committing the act of homosexuality a sin?” The Bible is clear that sex before or outside of marriage is sin. Most homo’s live this lifestyle before they ever attempt to marry.

Jennifer

When I made the decision to be baptized I took responsibility for my own soul. The bible tells me homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God. I have not ever had attraction for the opposite sex. I do not know why, I just know I simply do not have them. I do not question God as to why I feel the way I do, I just pray for guidence. I am 42 years old and struggle with this every day. I do not condone or promote homosexuality. I also do not hide what I am however I do not advertise. I have raised 4 step children and all of them are happy heterosexuals and I thank God for that every day. I cannot control others or how they live their lives but I do think there should be some sort of legalization to the unions so that gays equally share the consequences of other married people. Such as child support, divorce costs and alimony. It is wrong that gays have the ability to walk away from a life and have zero consequences. If a man or woman did this they are bound by law to provide. I try to live my life as close to the path of rightousness as possible however I stumble and in the eyes of God and his word I am an abomination. I have to live with that and one day I will answer for it.

n0sfreak

TRANSFORMATION begins in the mind. “As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.” That is the power we have given to us.
Lemme talk to you a bit. I have had trouble loving myself, but then I realised it was my negative mindset holding me back for 20-something years. I’m taking it bit by bit. You should too. Don’t do anything your old man would have had you do on impulse. Remember, in Christ, that old man is dead and you ARE a new creature. The memories may remain, but you don’t have to live in the past.
THANK GOD YOU’RE IN THE GOOD FIGHT. KEEP GOING. You’ll be an example to those in that lifestyle that believe that they cannot change. I’m not saying it will be easy, but the rewards are hard to ignore.

lorene

Pastor Joel olstein did not allow himself to be used in this interview. God did not design for two of the same sex to be together in such manner. It doesn’t matter who gets offended. Pastors need to preach God’s word for what it is because compromising your position is placing your belief in Christ, and or telling God’s word is never what you do.

Elc Promanagement

IS SAD TO SEE ALL OF YOU BEEN manipulate by the government

Mark

To many Christians everywhere do not wish to pay the price for speaking where the Bible speaks and remaining silent where the Bible is silent. The Bible is clear in its opposition of homosexuality but some do not wish to sacrifice personal success or money or praise of men or popularity in order to flat out say that the Bible, not me, not an individual, but the inspired Word of God condemns homosexuality. We should be bold and proud to stand with the Bible on this and other issues. We do not have to be perfect to judge “righteous” judgment. Osteen, here, does not wish to risk his popularity for the nuts and bolts of Christianity. Sad that we are helping others to Hell by not preaching the word of God regardless of the cost to us personally.

Anonymous

I would say well , I believe in the word of God , let see what God think about it .that would shut everyone mouth because we are not here to judge that is God job , so again let read what God s a y about it .

Paul Howell

H doesn’t want to lose $ so he stands for nothing…Jesus wasn’t very popular.. Matter of fact ..they wanted Him dead

Shane Maurice Heidrich

We are all sinners born into a sinful world.
The Good News is that Our sins have been taken away by Jesus in the cross.
Once you believe in Jesus it doesn’t matter what your sins are, because you are washed clean by his sacrifice. Weather your gay or not weather you farted in the elevator or not. It doesn’t matter. It’s not our righteousness that sets us free it’s our heavenly fathers beloved son. Don’t listen to anyone preaching anyother message other then the love of Christ.it is not your works that will get you into heaven, it is Jesus. You can try to quit being gay your while life it won’t matter. If you have the Lord in your heart Jesus, when you go to heaven he will speak for you.

That’s why it’s called grace… Your ARE made righteous through Jesus and him alone…. Your own righteousness are filthy rags.

Just remember it’s all in whom you beleive not whom you are.

Oh one more. Who so ever believes in me Shall have eternal life… Just remember this when you have all the nay sayers pulling out scripture out of context trying to tell you Jesus doesn’t accept you.

Anonymous

Does that answer your Question ?

candy

I liked how he answered it. It was not that he was saying everything was acceptable. I heard him answer that question before. He is saying that no matter what, he was just going to show love. (In case your wondering, he did state in that other interview that homosexuality was a sin, just that he did not see it as a bigger sin as others.)

Guest

I am a sinner so I worry about myself and my sin. But what I believe belongs to me and me along. I do not try to install my beliefs on anyone, and I don’t want anyone to install their beliefs on me. What you do is your business and please stay out of mine.
Matthew 7:3-5
New International Version (NIV)
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Me

I am a sinner so I worry about myself and my sin. But what I believe belongs to me and me along. I do not try to instill my beliefs on anyone, and I don’t want anyone to instill their beliefs on me. What you do is your business and please stay out of mine.
Matthew 7:3-5
New International Version (NIV)
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

JoAnna Romero

Joel Osteen is trying to avoid offending gays and will not speak what God says about gay marriage.Im sorry but the truth does offend if you’re living in sin no matter what that sin is.We’re commissioned to go out into the world and preach the gospel and that’s part of it.

Anonymous

To me he’s being slightly cowardly. I say “slightly” because he is a good man but he is clearly afraid of persecution for his views. Honestly, I’d lean his way on this if I were in his shoes. It’s almost illegal to say you’re against homosexuality these days here in America.

JoAnna Romero

I believe I’d be more afraid to face the Lord and explain why I couldn’t say the truth.I agree that he’s a good man,but he needs to speak up.I remember him being on Larry King and being asked if anyone can get into heaven,and he hem hawed around that too

Lesley Goddin

Glenn, there was a 25 minute interview with Joel Osteen. His position on gay marriage was NOT the ONLY question he was asked. You’re moaning and wailing about how ALL the focus is on gay marriage — it’s 1:08 minutes of the 25 minute interview which is really about his book that promotes believing in God to take the limitations off one’s life (and questions like why does God allow tragedy and death – the “meaty” stuff you are bemoaning that no one is asking). Let’s be clear — YOUR focus is on the fact Joel was asked about gay marriage and how he responded.YOU’RE the one that is blowing it up to overshadow everything else in the interview. Did YOU watch the entire 25 minute interview? YOU are your own worst enemy. By the way, here is the ENTIRE interview: http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/joel-osteen-break-out-/5245e21502a760058700022a

enahsdrawde

God loves all of his children. The question isnt the sin, but do they love god enough to let him show them the way. All of gods apostles did things we do today, but are you okay with the sin in question in your own life. Judas was an apostle and sold jesus life. Peter denied him thrice. Timothy doubted he was god. Andrew was collecting taxes. All were not perfect, and all doing wrongs in gods eyes, but they were shown a different path. Drugs, sex, immorality, killing, cheating, lying, wrath, we know these things are bad, but who do you turn to for peace over your guilty conscience. In ancient times, the romans and greeks performed sexual acts within warrior ranks, not because they thought it wrong, but for release, the ideal response is during noahs day, the flood happened and sodom and gomorrah happened because of idoltry, and sexual deviancy. The book of revelations said it would become as the days of noah, flooded with the same things that caused the flood. It also states that those who are set in their ways to continue that way till gods coming judgment. God wants repentece for what ee do wrong. Those who dont repent have theirselces to blame. We should forget what others do that we do not, and focus on ourselves and our own relationship with god. He will show us our place.

Nancy Yancy-Cozza Artist

Our DNA is more than just female of male at times ~ get over it already and allow those who struggle with “am I gay” or “I am gay” to become whole with their body and mind. God can help a person determine (judge) his/her/others faithfulness to Him. If a person is gay for a lifestyle or lust that is wrong ~ in my opinion. Let God sort it out.

Lori Skilton

Mr. Beck, one of your questions is ” So who is the one that says ‘Yes, I believe that’ ?” – the answer is Franklin Graham. I just heard a speech of his where he clearly stands on the biblical teachings of this subject, and I’ve gotta say that it was refreshing to hear a pastor not waffle on this – or any unpleasant – subject. Soooo many people are afraid of offending others that they don’t take a stand on ANYTHING, and our clergy need to. We all do.

Anonymous

Can you say,,,,,Elmer Gantry? Follow the money.

Anonymous

Look at his eyes, mega pastor! Why not his church send him to a Bible college to learn first before he talks? He is a story teller funny guy who just know how to oil others to get their money to build his fantasy kingdom (his Church).

Anonymous

Did Glenn ever ask if his mormon faith is biblical or not?

ScaryLogic

The way the LDS do things is more doctrinally sound than most “traditional” churches.

Gary Bruce

Never trust anyone who smiles all the time.

GvL

Amazing…You want to know what’s wrong with this country? In part, it’s you. You who are too busy pointing fingers at others, damning them for a lifestyle that you or your bible don’t approve of.. who are you? NO ONE. Mind your own business and keep your religious views away from our Constitution… It’s folks like you that are leading to the downfall of the GOP.. We can’t get in a candidate to beat this POS POTUS or his moron cronies because every time we do, they have to pander to the FAR right… like you bible thumpers… so what’s left? Crap. Our candidates are crap because they can’t focus on REAL issues because they’re busy placating you by focusing on insignificant ones – like whom is sleeping with whom.. Well done.

Elaina

Just an FYI – The Constitution was based on the Bible and written by Christians. With that being said I will throw in my two cents on what is wrong with this country…..A number of things, One: it is because it is run by and occupied by flawed human beings. Human beings that think they are better than everyone else for one or more of the following reasons; they are rich, they are homosexual, they are Christian, they are activists etc. Two: Everyone bit*hes but not everyone votes. Three: Divorce rates are ridiculous and children are being raised by single parents. I don’t care if you believe in God or nature, both beliefs require BOTH parents for successful child rearing. Four: The media, in all it’s forms, they are all lead by the advertising industry which is lead by big business so all of us sheep can just follow along blindly to whatever turns the best profit. There’s more but I suppose that’s enough for now. I will end with this, the one thing that is NOT wrong with this country is people following the Bible or the Quran or the Torah or the Vedas or the Tipitaka for that matter. All religions, when practiced AS THEY ARE WRITTEN and in their ENTIRETY promote love, peace and acceptance.

Linda Creech

He is in the pulpit delivering the word of God and he still can’t give a direct answer to that question. Too afraid he will hurt people’s feelings. Come on Olsteen. You are beating around the subject.

Daniel Rock-chalk Jayhawk Sayd

“Osteen explained that his core message is helping people let go of the past, reach their dreams, have a healthy self-image, and raise good children.”?

I figured the core message of the pastor of the largest church in America would be “Jesus saves” or “Jesus loves you” or “Jesus died for you” or anything to put some ounce of focus on Jesus. Instead we get the tried and true Joel Osteen motivational “you can do it!” Even though anyone who has really tried, knows they can’t.

Michael Cavalier

The reason, Mr. Beck, for the “gay, gay, gay, gay, gay” issue you mention, is inequality and the lack of fairness “under the law” for LGBT people. So long as the churches continue to place their representatives in positions within the government of our states and our nation, where they attempt to legislate their beliefs over the rights of individuals, it remains an issue that needs to be addressed.

My personal understanding of what is written in the Bible, is that God gave us all the ability and the right to choose for ourselves what we believe to be right and wrong, and how we decide to live our lives as we have our own relationship with God. Nowhere did I ever read that we have been charged with forcing what we believe upon everyone else.

To state “Everyone in the mainstream media tries to trap any pastor, politician, athlete, and all Bible believers into that one question.” is a gross misstatement, if not a calculated maneuver to paint yourselves the victims for losing public opinion toward what is right, versus what the churches refuse to let go of. When the churches stop persecuting specific demographics, denying others equal rights according to the law and our Constitution, perhaps they will hear less of the “gay, gay, gay” and more of the Amens!

Rebeccahnamte

Yes it’s true that we have that we have the right to choose for ourselves but being a Christian means speading the gospel.. n the gospel clearly states that gay marriage is a sin.. n no one’s forcing anyone to change their beliefs.. we all have our free will.. it’s our duty as Christians to spread the word of God so that people will come to know the truth and come to God of their own free will

Michael Cavalier

I absolutely respect that people feel as Christians that they have a duty to spread the word of God. My beef is when religion tries to force their beliefs upon others by changing laws, which then takes the choice God blessed us all with away from those who believe otherwise. I am curious as to where the gospel mentions gay marriage; can you please point out the location of that statement in the Bible so I can read it?

Van B

It seems Osteen’s message is more important to him than God’s message. This is not so shocking,though. We see this mindset all around us..all the time.

steve

nice duck. quack quack !

Rebeccahnamte

It is not judging to say “It is a sin” when the Bible clearly tells us it is one.. we as Christians were called to spread the gospel and that means telling the truth as is written in the Bible… i don’t think that it is possible for any born_again Christian to say,”I am a Christian but gay marriage is ok with me because society has come to accept it.” Preaching that it is a sin is not judging.. it’s spreading the gospel.. a part of it anyway..

Shania Feanix

God says do not judge others or you will be judged by your own judgement. (can your life take that on? (paraphrased of course) I am not God I will not judge, I will love those who share a different view of life as Jesus says we should do, to love others as we want to be loved… I know there was Sodom and Gomorrah but I am not GOD so I believe this, I will not judge anyone, because who am I? I have my own sin and judging others is a sin too, and ALL SINS are equal sins in Gods eyes. Quote the Word all you want so show your side of the story, but its then using Gods words to destroy another human being, and is that right? Hitler did it, the white supremacist did it, the kkk did it , they all took verses out of context to use to further their causes… So be careful what you preach, you might be wrong… can you handle that

Stephanie Soucek

it is possible to love people and not condemn them while also speaking the truth in love…I can love people I disagree with. The bible says “woah to those who call good evil and evil good.” We have to call sin sin and not sugarcoat it. doesn’t mean I have to be hateful about it, but if I don’t stand for what I believe in, then why believe anything? truth is not relative, but that’s the popular message these days.

Dave

I have listened to Joel talk on many points and he always says the same thing, Nothing. For some reason he has a real problem with telling people the whole truth. I don’t hate gay people and I want them in Heaven but I’m not going to tell them that sin is ok. A Minister must tell their flock not only about the good things in Christ but also the bad things when you stray from Christ and this guy just won’t do it. A good friend on mine told me that if I really and truly love someone I will tell them the whole truth even if it upsets them.

http://www.larkins.org/ Larkins Dsouza

I hope this sums up things

Anonymous

Glenn nobody deserves a chance to get in heaven except you I guess. since you are so perfect and don’t even have a sinful thought. The coming of Christ comes as thief in the night even you don’t know when your chances are up to get it right.

Anonymous

Glenn your job as to spread seeds not condemn or throw rocks. It’s good that you educated but watch the line in the sand.

Jo

I’m gay and by all means it is not a choice, you are born this way. But, no matter what my sexual preference is I love God my Father and pray to him every day and go to Church every Sunday. It does NOT make me less of a person to be who I am. I am not afraid to be me and that is because God has given me the strength to face the real me. I love who I am, and even more I love the fact that God has accepted me for who I am.

God’s child

Where in the word of God says that He accepts homosexuality? I’m not judging you but you cant find that in the bible. If you follow God you follow his word because that is his testimony and our life.

Donald Schwartz

Love the sinner? Aren’t we all sinners? Sin is sin in the eyes of God, there is no sin that is larger than another. The only hope we all have is in Jesus, when He died and rouse again that symbolized being born again. The message was simple whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but be born again and have everlasting life. We all have sin in our life so quit tripping on the gay people. We should be more worried about ourselves and stop pointing fingers. God loves the sinner but hates the sin. Pastor Osteen sets a fine example of how we all should be.

God’s child

We may start a discussion and we may never finish. But I am sure that what is been written is inspire by God and he made clear what was good and what was evil. Trying to put a cover in the evil actions doesnt make them good. So who then would say the truth? If people say is to strong or “mean” they want to change it but that just make week christians or strong non beliver in God. We need to tell the difference between good and evil and say the truth how it is how God taugh us. Lets become more like the apostol Paul and not like Saul ignoring God’s condiments! Thr almighty God bless you

God’s child

God said that in the last days our Faith would prove. Homosexual marriage is not right before God. God loves us that’s why he gave His life for us. We as sinners have the decision. We can decide whether to choose good or evil but God recommend us ti choose good. As children of God we have to stand up and share what is been given to us by grace! God created a man and a woman to be together in the first place the corruption of the devil blinded the minds not to see the goodness of God. Now what is evil is accepted as good and what is good is questionable even by some fake christians. We dont have much time the Lord is coming soon for His people let us be prepared for that Great Day of Glory! Allelluha

SAM

god did not make u gay or a lesbian he sis not say and be gay n it was good no he said he made man in his OWN image and it was GOOD. and then he made woman in his image and ihe said it was good that doesn’t say get a sex change just cause u cant get what U want no it mean s be happy w what GOD gave you and be HAPPY THAT GOD CREATED YOU AS A PERSON AND NOT A RODENT.

Anonymous

What a wimp!! What did Jesus do?— “But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they replied. Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.”
He saw their intent as evil, he called them out on it, he refused to play their one-sided word game, until they first answered his question. Until we toughen up like our Lord and play a little smashmouth with people of evil intent, evil will continue to dominate the culture. End of statement.

LycanLew

No, it’s not the “only question”, it’s a big question, though, because LGBT+ people, even Christians like you, are literally killing themselves out of self-hatred and pressure from cis/het Christians to change a part of themselves that they really cannot change or else they’ll be sentenced to an eternity in Hell. I’m not just talking about Christian LGBT+ members, but I think it has more of a negative effect on them, because when you believe in and love God, and your fellow Christians are telling you that your loving Father is actually disgusted by your lifestyle because you happen to love somebody of the same gender and is going to punish you for it by damning you to the fiery pits forever, you lose hope. You try to change. Sometimes, you get a boyfriend–try to be straight, even though you cannot make yourself love somebody that you just don’t love (think of it the other way around. If you were looked down upon and told you were going to hell unless you could make yourself attracted to the same sex, could you?), and things don’t work out. You get taken advantage of. You give up. Some commit suicide, because what’s the point, anyway? Many Christians base their worth solely on God’s love, so why live without it? They don’t.
When you’re actually KILLING people with this belief based on a book written only God knows how long ago, which has VERY LIKELY been edited from its original form (apparently written by the Holy Spirit) by MEN, who are flawed and biased, then yeah, it’s a big question. It matters. And your view on homosexuality matters. It MATTERS because you could be the final straw for someone, and while it shouldn’t matter to you (as the Bible DOES say to love and care for all people equally), that person could be a fellow Christian.

Anonymous

If your not attracted to the opposite sex you are not necessarily therefore homosexual. If you have such an inclination ask God to grant you the grace to do what he commands.

LycanLew

I never said that if you’re not attracted to the opposite sex you’re homosexual. That would be bi, a, and pansexual erasure.
I know that if there’s a loving God He wouldn’t mind the relationship I’m in right now. I know he’d approve. I don’t need human beings to tell me otherwise.

Anonymous

Just so you know; the god you’ve invented in your mind isn’t the God of the bible.

LycanLew

And who’s to say either one is real?
I am not going to blindly follow a heavily edited 2,000 year old book so some man/woman (I don’t know if you’re a man or a woman, sorry) on an internet forum finds peace with my existence.

Anonymous

You read to much into my comment. I never said to blindly follow anything; only that a god that condones a same sex relationship is an idolatrous invention of the human mind not the true God that exists whether or whether not people believe or trust in Him. That’s according to scripture. The bible was translated not edited to change content. You can check it out from the ancient texts if you’re scholarly enough and have the time.
You’re going to believe according to your hearts desire. All I’m saying is that you believe something different than the bible teaches. This doesn’t surprise me.

LycanLew

Whether or not you believe the Bible has been edited, it has also been translated–you’re right, but if you’ve studied Latin, Greek, or Hebrew (no, I don’t know Hebrew or Greek, but I do know Latin), you’ll know there are multiple meanings for one word, hence even with the best of intentions, which humans are not necessarily known for, a translator could have easily changed the meaning of a verse or passage.
I know this won’t change your mind. You seem to be very unmoving. This doesn’t surprise me.

Anonymous

A translator could not have easily changed the meaning of the text. Like I said the texts are still available for examination and study, so if you have a mind you can translate them yourself.
You’re right in that I’m unmoving; I’m very happy that God forgives sinners like me.

san

It’s what God wants that matters his word is his will if you are a Christian. You are suppose to speak the truth in love Jesus said his word is TRUTH. People forget God’s love is Righteous not like ours. THE BIBLE IN THE NEW TESTEMEMENT SAYS THE LIFESTYLE CHOICE GAYS HAVE MADE IS NOT ACCEPTABLE WITH GOD .READ IT YOURSELF ROMANS 1:24 -27 I would rather someone not like me then see them lost forever. That’s love.

reneebigsur

I respect Joel, I especially respect him during this interview because he was put in a position to have to speak one way or another. Maybe Joel does NOT believe in GAY marriage, however, he respects those that have chosen that. Why is it that people constantly feel that they have to FORCE an issue? And, in true form, Joel recognized that and did not respond in a way that was expected. Thank YOU JOEL for restoring my faith. There are Pastors, like you, that know how to lead a flock, and it does not include forcing one to comment on controversial issues. The message has been stated loud and clear for all to hear. Follow your heart, love who YOU are, and NEVER be ashamed. Our GOD is a loving GOD.

Liz Gray

Your comments have made my day! Let me tell you what I think is most important to my Dad and his partner…. The legal rights to make medical decisions for one another like a heterosexual marriage has. The ability to create wills that do not list ME as the main beneficiary just so I can pay taxes to pass family property on to the rightful partner – so they can pay secondary taxes on what was theirs in the first place. This is about spousal equality. The real problem is not God. It’s the government. Marinate on that for a minute. That said – Joel Osteen side stepped this one with aplomb!

Elson Snider

Why not, just quote the scriptures, Joel! Stop trying water the truth down, just to attract members to your church!! But, you’re like all of the PC politicians!!

Theresa Hsiu Yun Cheng

Not all but many marriages, nowadays, came from fornication. Don’t see ours better than gay marriages.

We are all sinners. We all must repent. Don’t point fingers at others, point at ourselves first. Make sure we get in the narrow gate first, then we might be able to help others.

Diane Lane

I believe in Jesus’s famous quote let the one without sin cast the first stone. Jesus judged no one, but instead guided them with his wisdom. I have the biggest issue with murderers, sex offenders and those who actively try to harm others. These are people who embody hatred and it is very difficult to steer someone from that path once they are on it. Gay is something I consider questionable, but like Joel says we all have issues.

Joe Cormier

Actually Jesus did judge. He wasn’t a passive push over.

Equis

Diane, sin is sin no matter how you flower it up. You are right we’re not to judge because God almighty is judge however, we are suppose to discern right from wrong and recognize sin so that we don’t fall prey to it.

Joe Cormier

This truly is a stupid argument and discussion. One sin is sin. So gay marriage is no different than stealing, lying or nailing Jesus on the cross and vice versa. So we all need Jesus. Next is homosexual behavior a sin? well do you really need the bible to figure that out? Let’s change the word sin to” wrong”. Now let’s say everyone in the world is gay and only wish to have relations with the same sex because well you just can’t stop being gay…. I guess our civilization wouldn’t last very long… and that would just be” wrong”. Get it ? Got it ? Good!

Dan Heizinger

When people tell others sin is not sin, that is where the reaction is. Nobody is claiming adultery is not a sin, so the church rarely addresses it outside of actual church.

Billy

I caught Osteen preaching prosperity theology a couple of months ago so I won’t give him much respect anyway; he’s all about the money. Homosexuality is wrong, it’s clearly stated in the bible despite what people want to say about translations, versions, old or new testament, just like adultery is wrong, bestiality and a host of other sins. Point is, if the sin has become your lifestyle the you’ve chosen sin over God, and well, I hope you got your asbestos suit. All these sins are a crop out of idol worship, which pretty much means that you’re worshipping someone (person) other than God and you’re doing it willingly. Change your ways or lie in that bed you made. Can’t put it any easier.

Theresa Hsiu Yun Cheng

Gospel indeed is prosperity. But you will prosper in heaven with eternal life, not on the Earth.

Father blesses us and provides everything we need. You can’t say He’s wrong to bless us with prosperity either.

Our hearts are important. Are we honest when we make a living, do we have compassion for the poor? He will judge according to our hearts and deeds.

He is God the Almighty, so He has rightly favor to bless someone with more wealth and success on the Earth.

Chris Farrow

The Gospel is all about Prosperity if not what poverty who did Jesus go to first the Poor and told them you don’t have to be poor anymore .There are more scripture on money than any other. we need money to show the world . When God saved any people he made them rich and healthy. and everyone who followed him were wealthy .Christians have been dooped in believing we are to be broke to be Holy …..POVERTY IS A SIN every preach should preach it

Chris Farrow

i THINK The fact that Christians are arguing Christianity is a reason why so many are lost what we need to do is pray for each other and understand that when we gave our life to Christ and receive Holy Spirit There is nothing to think about or debate just listen. if we did less talking and more listening we would be much better fishers. Study your bible and Pray in the Spirit and receive Revelation from the Lord. That’s what built the Church our not doing this and arguing in front of the world is why we are losing our families everyday. We need to show the world WHO WE ARE OUR as it stand we are just like them.We tell them to say no to sin but what are we telling to say yes to. Ilove you Guy but we really have to do better. Stay Blessed

Theresa Hsiu Yun Cheng

Salvation is between an individual and God. Deal with the desires come from our flesh first.

We must stop all these old topics and debates – Satan’s trying to waste your time by distracting you.

Reborn Christians, work hard and get in the narrow gate! Be ready for Jesus is at the door step.

Work harder to bear fruits, if we don’t bear fruits, we will be cut off and thrown into fire.

Life is short, it takes time to bear fruits and we don’t have much time left.

Ronald Pence

A lot is said about bearing good fruit, not rotten fruit.

Obie Wan

I dind’t make the rules,and I didn’t write the Bible, but people who have actually read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and come up with the idea that God condons homosexuality is reading a different Bible then I’ve read !!!

Theresa Hsiu Yun Cheng

If we are true Christians, we will pray for every reborn Christian. No matter he’s a gay or straight.

You are a human God created, so is a gay. God loves you, you’re His child, so is a gay.

Being a gay, he faces more difficult test to come to Jesus. But if he makes it, he does a harder job than a straight in the eyes of the Lord.

It’s nothing to be proud of being a straight because being a straight doesn’t have to suffer anything. Hence, there’s no reward from the Lord.

We should not condemn or judge anyone. Our job is to love our neighbours, the poor and the enemies. Remember?

Ronald Pence

God says its an abomination and destroyed Sodom and Gomorra because the men burned with passion one for another and the women turned to the unnatural use of the body. You dont have to believe it but that is what God said. He also says you can take it or leave it and then based on that he will judge you and send you where he promised. let him that stole steal no more. IN other words when you become a Christian you must stop the willful sin.

LycanLew

God destroyed Sodom and Gomorra because of RAPE, which is an actual problem, not homosexuality.

David Adkins

Another Pastor afraid to speak the truth with Gods word……..Homosexuality is abomination against God. His word clearly states that it is a sin!

Ronald Pence

Same reply to you also: Ronald Pence Chris Layton • in a few seconds

You are wasting your time trying to explain it to someone that has not accepted the Bible as God’s inspired word and uses the Bible as the standard. By standard I mean the yardstick to measure by. The standard we use in measurements is 12 inches = 1 foot, 3 feet = 1yard, etc. Kruschev was well read in the bible but did not have the Holy Spirits guidance so his understanding of it was distorted. That’s and example of why trying to explain to a non believer is a waste of time and Joel realizes this. Example: That’s like trying to explain a lot of things to a liberal. No matter your evidence it does not work, they still want to take the guns away because of the criminals in spite of the evidence it deters crime..

Jim Watts

The Christian right has made it the only question. They’ve spent so much time and virulent energy opposing a few issues like abortion, contraception, and homosexuality that they’ve become defined by it. These are all things about which Jesus had exactly zero things to say. I find it incredibly disingenuous of Glenn Beck to turn around and complain about this. If Glenn Beck wants the Christian right to be defined in some other way he is welcome to lead the charge…maybe by endorsing some of the things Jesus actually did speak about like helping the needy and loving thy neighbor. I applaud Joel Osteen for making his mission about something besides keeping homosexuals from getting married.

Equis

What are you talking about? You speak like you know Jesus but you really don’t otherwise you truly would know sin when you came across it. God says its a sin and he meant it so what is the problem and why does anyone have to apologizes for it. All people have a right to their views so those opposed need to get over it.

Michael

Oh look, another tickle-in-the-ear preacher.

Mary Freeman

I don’t care if people are gay or not…. Get them into the Word and they will not remain the same no matter what their issues are…. Gay people are who the Physician came to heal!

Placidio Juan Rivera

So once again, a Pastor, a popular pastor, who is afraid to
call sin a sin. God does. Why is it so hard for his children to follow suit. As
Christians we hate the sin not the sinner. Therein lays the rub. Because one
calls homosexuality a sin you automatically are a hater, a homophobic…………..if
one believes the Bible, as all these Pastors claim to, then there isn’t ANY
gray area for homosexuality. It is wrong, it is a sin and if the sinner doesn’t
change his or her ways then they will perish and pay the consequences from God
Almighty………..pretty plain and simple.

.s.gaines

Glenn Beck…you really suck…every one is entitled to his own thoughts I respect joel for concentrating LESS ON T GAY MARRIAGE AND MORE ON PEOPLESVREAL PROBLEMS….

Chris Layton

Joel Osteen is a wet noodle. The man can’t stand solidly on any principle and declare it clearly with conviction particularly on the subject of whether Gay marriage is abhorrent to God or not. I think it’s a relevant question that has to do with morals. The answer is simple, it is abhorrent to God and it’s why he had them all stoned to death in Sodom and Gomorrah. He who is perfect did cast the first stone, and the second, and the third, and the ten thousandth.
Joel obviously doesn’t want to deal with that question but I think any good and moral pastor needs to be ready at anytime to give a firm definitive answer on the subject and not act as though he’s being put out for being asked the question.

Ronald Pence

You are wasting your time trying to explain it to someone that has not accepted the Bible as God’s inspired word and uses the Bible as the standard. By standard I mean the yardstick to measure by. The standard we use in measurements is 12 inches = 1 foot, 3 feet = 1yard, etc. Kruschev was well read in the bible but did not have the Holy Spirits guidance so his understanding of it was distorted. That’s and example of why trying to explain to a non believer is a waste of time and Joel realizes this. Example: That’s like trying to explain a lot of things to a liberal. No matter your evidence it does not work, they still want to take the guns away because of the criminals in spite of the evidence it deters crime..

Chris Layton

I’m not quite sure what you are saying. Most people who read these posts are Christians who believe in the bible as I do though we do get some ags making comments which are mostly noise. It was my impression that Joel Osteen advertises himself as a Christian pastor and it’s my expectation that he supposedly uses the bible? I could be wrong on that one. I only heard him once on a short Oprah clip that I just happened to catch though I normally do not pay attention to anything Oprah ever says because she’s nuts.

David Craig

What I have felt and learned over the years, is that once someone asks Jesus Christ to save them, and the Holy Spirit has become part of them, He (The Holy Spirit) will gently guide a person into the truth of God’s Word. I am so very tired of Christians casting stones at one another. We are the only army in the world that shoots it’s wounded. If Christians are so busy hurtling insults at one another, the lost world can sit back and laugh at us, because we are doing all the work for them. I listen to Joel Osteen every Sunday night and every message I’ve heard, has lined up with God’s Word, and has energized and helped me to a deeper walk with the Lord. One must understand the progression. When we asked Jesus Christ to be our Lord and Savior, all of our sins were forgiven and we were immediately justified. But, we are baby Christians, and we are going to stumble and fall as we learn to walk. As it states in Galatians 6:1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. Instead of judging and condemning, we should minister, restore, and help them. As we walk with the Lord, we will be progressively sanctified, and one day when Jesus Christ returns for His Church we will be glorified. Sorry for the mini-sermon, I do get carried away sometimes, so with that I will be quiet. But my prayer for each one that reads this is may the love of God, the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you always.

David Craig

Glen Beck, let me ask you some questions. Has the statements you made against Joel Osteen furthered the Kingdom of God? Has your statements led someone to Christ? If they haven’t, then whats the point of even saying them. Does your continued attack build up the body of Christ? You use the biblical reference about a Church divided against itself will fall, but isn’t that exactly what you are doing? Please answer me this; have your negative comments met Biblical Standards? I ask you this because In Philippians 4:8-9 it states, “Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you. And in James 3: 5-10 Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. I did not mean to preach a sermon, but I simply cannot help but say what the Holy Spirit tells me to say. When I read this, both these passages jumped into my mind and this is how I had to respond by obedience.

John Delfino

I agree with Debbie Roberts, Everyone is a sinner on an hourly or minute by minute basis and if it weren’t for Christ we would all be condemned to hell. I think sin is between the sinner and God as long as they don’t try to impart their sins on others that’s when the bible will draw the line, not us. Our job is not to judge others, but to let God bring them to repentance, and oh, he will. Pray for all sinners, as long as they don’t try to push it on you. In that case I’m completely against someone pushing their belief system on me and making me accept or swallow it against what my belief system. I don’t mean to say being Gay is not alright, I mean to say if you are gay, that’s between you and God and why should I stand in between you and God and try to judge you, but just know, God is going to pursue you and his righteousness, not mine.. because I’m not righteous, or self righteous…Jesus Christ is according to the bible….!

Cynthia1423 .

Joel Osteen is annointed by The Heavenly Father and it’s obvious. (-:

Equis

Are you absolutely sure because there is a lot at stake don’t you think.;)

Mark D.

First of all, what Joel Osteen’s, Billy Graham’s, Glen Beck’s or my opinion of this discussion does not matter. God has the ability to speak to us individually. Looking to a public religious figure for validation of what God has conveyed to each one of us seems a bit silly. It does not matter what they think. What do you believe?

What Glen mentioned about gay, gay, gay, gay…this is not much different than any presidential campaign. The same issues come around every 4 years (abortion, legalization of drugs, gay rights, etc…) and then they disappear until the next campaign. If you are a public religious figure there will be certain issues that will be the focal point of discussion forever.

http://alankhenderson.blogspot.com/ alanhenderson

One of the chief assumptions behind the existence of marriage is the notion that having sex with someone other than one’s life mate is undesirable. Marriage stigmatizes promiscuity and peer-pressures people into limiting their sexual behavior to a life mate – thus marriage is in a state of war with the very bulwarks of the Sexual Revolution. The Left is infatuated with a false image of marriage – the ceremony, the government benefits, the erasure of any concept that marriage entails public civic duty. Real marriage conforms sexual behavior to civilization; the left sees marriage as little more than a government program for the benefit if the married party.

Anonymous

#1 – IT’S NOT “GAY” IT IS PERVERSION.
by ANY measure of science or reality…period.
#2 – It does not matter what anyone thinks about JO’s view because GOD’s view is completely unambiguous. There is no “if” or “but”.
#3 – Any person who imagines himself to be an actual Christians should have the sense to know that GOD commands us to abandon our world view ands accept HIS …COMPLETELY, in every way and on every subject.
Most of GOD’s promises for us are “if-then” promises and hinge on us having faith (ie “choosing to believe).
#4 – GOD does not command that HIS ppl confront every sin and demand it end. *HOWEVER…anyone who thinks GOD does not do this sometimes is ignorant. HE tells us clearly we will be hated for standing for the truth.
***So what is the balance? “Spiritual me are led by the SPIRIT of GOD”.
GOD *can* call us to confront any sin at any time *BUT* we must be led. Most of those who do it often are being led by pride not GOD’s SPIRIT.
Those who refuse to ever do it are led by the fear of man and fear of rejection.
As far as any of us know JO’s position on this is exactly where GOD has told him to be. GOD would rather keep the lost listening to the truth so they might repent. Only HE knows when they have turned away completely>
TRUE STORY:
Famous minster shares JESUS with honky tonk woman.
She says “No I can’t get saved because I love to dance in the tonk!”
Minister says “under the anointing) “You can still dance if you accept CHRIST.”.
He returns to minster at the church 2 yrs later.
Same lady confronts him; “You tricked me!” she says.
Minister can’t recall anything..
She says, “You told me if I got saved I could still dance, but after I got saved I couldn’t stand the honky tonks anymore!
—————————————–
GOD’s opinion is the only right one
GOD’s way is the only right one.
GOD’s plans are bigger than our comprehension.
HE expects us to stop doing what we think is best and wait upon HIS leading.

The church is a pathetic crippled mess because GOD’s kids are not doing any of the things HE CLEARLY showed us were the most important:
#1 – The absolute most common miracle CHRIST did and the #1 thing HE instructed the disciples to do was deliverance:
95% of the church has no idea they need it or how to get it.
#2 – The number one task HE assigned the church was to “make disciples”. Not one Christian in a thousand has actually been discipled and less know what real discipleship even is.
#3 – GOD warns us HE is coming for a spotless church.The church is filthy oppressed and ignorant and both of the above MUST be put back where they belong but this will not occur until we receive by “faith” (ie “choose to believe”) what GOD had COMMANDED about us submitting to one another and those HE has given authority (esp in HIS body.)
Why is Christian divorce so high…their homes are OUT OF ORDER!
Why do Christian kids usually leave the church? Their parents are out of order!
Why do churches divide and die and see no miracles?
The ppl are out of order!
FOR THIS WHO WANT TO SEE THE WAY:
READ – DELIVER US FROM EVIL by Don Basham
SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY by Watchman Nee
Don’t let some powerless religious person tell you not to seek truth.
You can check every word and see if these books tell truths or lies.
Judge righteously not unrighteously!

Equis

Don’t forget this little detail judgment starts at the pulpit. Just saying..

To those that say we are not to judge, you are very weak in understanding Gods word. 1. you don’t understand there are two kinds of judgment and 2. God commands us to judge. You cannot read one part or a scripture and take it out of context and jump to the conclusion that is what it means. If we are not to judge, how do you reconcile that with Joh 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous
judgment.I repeat: JUDGE A RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT. Now, to understand what it means, you must understand there is a wrong and a right judgment. The wrong one is without all the facts. The right judgment is the one with all the facts. Example: You cannot see a brother in a bar and ASSUME he is getting drunk. You cannot see a brother’s car parked at someone’s house and ASSUME he has moved in with someone’s wife. We are to use all the facts to judge between right and wrong. Another command for us to judge: I John 4:1 Beloved believe not every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. That also tells us there are false preachers. We have to judge what they are preaching by the word of God. Most people can read this and understand it. Man with mankind and woman with woman. Le 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is
abomination.
Man with man, woman with woman. The book of Leviticus, 18th chapter lists a lot of abominations, incest, brother’s wife, neighbor’s wife. If you just take time to read the bible, it is very very clear on these issues. If you will read it, you will see why some people oppose it. You can get a bible program for your computer for around $20 and can do topical studies. I try to leave my opinion out when I give an answer on this and give book chapter, verse, so no one is deceived thinking its just my “opinion” With and opinion and some money you can buy a cup of coffee. With some money you can buy a cup of coffee. In Godly matters an opinion is worthless.

Equis

I am sorry but We Are only to discern matters and God is the judge otherwise you cross over into his boundaries which He will not look kindly upon.

Jess Cardenas

It’s not about whether or not you follow rules. Its about your relationship with God. Its the way you live your life, you dont have a choice of who you will fall in love with. But are you living life the way Jesus tried showing us. With love and respect for all our brothers and sisters. Without passing judgement because as mentioned we were born into sin. We might sin daily but we are forgiven of those sins. Who’s casting the first stone? Exactly. Who’s to say its wrong or right. Who’s to say its unacceptable. If Jesus was here would he deny rights to a homosexual couple? Would he judge people in a same-gender relationship? He wants us all to love and treat each other equally because no matter what, at the end of the day we are all children of God. Religion is a way of segregation. It all comes down to your relationship with God. Are you good to your brothers & sisters. are you living an honest life? Jesus tried to change the world. He was one guy, trying to change people to see the good and not the bad. That’s how we should live our lives. Following in the footsteps of Jesus, spreading love among each other , unconditional love , a love just like His. Even after Jesus found out one of his disciples denied him not once or twice but 3 times, He still loved Peter. So do you truly believe that Jesus said two women or two men who are in love is an abomination ? Do you believe that Jesus would take pride in your judgement being passed on those couples? Do you believe He would be happy in your opinion that they do not deserve the same rights as heterosexual couples? A lot of heterosexual couples become divorced after few years which is also a sin, but nobody recognizes that. You’ve made a vow a promise before God to be with someone til death do you part. No matter what sexual orientation you fall under, you should honor that promise.

Anonymous

Just as with the woman caught in adultery (another sexual sin), Jesus would tell them to go and sin no more. (And yes, homosexual acts are a sin.)

Rachel L Rondina

So is telling a lie. It’s all the same in God’s eyes.

Anonymous

Nothing I stated was a lie.

Jesus did tell her to go and sin no more.
Acts of adultery are sins throughout the Bible.
Acts of homosexuality are sins throughout the Bible.

Lying about someone else is also a sin. I will pray for you.

Michael Oliver

All I see on here is a bunch of people spouting their beliefs & misguided understanding of the Bible. Like all so called Christians all ya’ll are trying to do is wrap the truth to suit your deceived way of thinking.

Guest

God please help this great Nation America, before its turns into modern day Sodom. Homosexuality is a sin just like any other sin. even a pagan knows this how much more those who claim to walk in the Light of Christ Jesus. and for our pastors who are more concerned about been accepted and seen as good people rather saving people from going to hell, they have their reward. i love joel, he is a great speaker, but if he is a christian and he knows the bible why not say the truth rather than coward away because he is afraid of getting bad publicty?

Jess Cardenas

It’s not about whether or not you follow rules. Its about your relationship with God. Its the way you live your life, you dont have a choice of who you will fall in love with. But are you living life the way Jesus tried showing us. With love and respect for all our brothers and sisters. Without passing judgement because as mentioned we were born into sin. We might sin daily but we are forgiven of those sins. Who’s casting the first stone? Exactly. Who’s to say its wrong or right. Who’s to say its unacceptable. If Jesus was here would he deny rights to a homosexual couple? Would he judge people in a same-gender relationship? He wants us all to love and treat each other equally because no matter what, at the end of the day we are all children of God. Religion is a way of segregation. It all comes down to your relationship with God. Are you good to your brothers & sisters. are you living an honest life? Jesus tried to change the world. He was one guy, trying to change people to see the good and not the bad. That’s how we should live our lives. Following in the footsteps of Jesus, spreading love among each other , unconditional love , a love just like His. Even after Jesus found out one of his disciples denied him not once or twice but 3 times, He still loved Peter. So do you truly believe that Jesus said two women or two men who are in love is an abomination ? Do you believe that Jesus would take pride in your judgement being passed on those couples? Do you believe He would be happy in your opinion that they do not deserve the same rights as heterosexual couples? A lot of heterosexual couples become divorced after few years which is also a sin, but nobody recognizes that. You’ve made a vow a promise before God to be with someone til death do you part. No matter what sexual orientation you fall under, you should honor that promise.

Rachel L Rondina

Excellent!

Anonymous

If a person is drowning, do you let them drown, or do you throw them a lifeline? Who really cares about that person? The one that watches them drown, or the one that throws the lifeline?

A person engaging in homosexuality is drowning in sin. What should a professing Christian do? Allow them to quietly drown? Cheer them on? Or love them enough to throw them a lifeline?

God loves people too much to allow them to remain in their sins. Jesus never advocated continuing on a sinful path, in fact he spoke very strongly about Hell and what awaited people who refused to repent. Do you follow Jesus’ example, or not? Everyone sins. But Jesus also offers all of us sinners a way to leave our sin behind. Never in any scripture does Jesus advocate living with the sin. He calls us to repent of our sins, ask for God’s forgiveness, and then leave that life of sinfulness behind.

Anonymous

Christians need to stand for the ENTIRE message of the Bible including homosexuality being immoral and a sin. The problem is that we allow the media and homosexual lobby to turn that into “hating homosexuals” which couldn’t be farther from the truth. It is out of LOVE that we share God’s Word which will offend and anger people who want to live a lifestyle that God says is wrong. Osteen, in my opinion, is only out for his own riches and doesn’t want to offend anyone so he sticks with his “feel good gospel” and treats God like a vending machine where we can get what WE want from Him by naming and claiming OUR desires. That is completely unBiblical.

Christi Noel

You know it’s not up to us to judge other people! We do not decide who goes to heaven or hell! So many “Christians” do this! It is not up to you! God loves everyone so why can’t we?!

Stanley Smith Omonzejele

Homosexuality is a sin as described by several biblical references both in the old and new testaments… but Homosexuality should be treated the same like any other sin written in the in the HOLY SCRIPTURES be it stealing, killing, adultery, lying, fornication etc… Just as simple as we admonishes a little kid from the act of telling lies, gay people should be admonished to deviate from such practice in the spirit of GENUINE MEEKNESS AND LOVE bearing in mind that WE ALL are guilty of this thing called Sin but as Christians, we no longer under sin but in GRACE THROUGH THE SELFLESS SACRIFICE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST not because of our righteousness as such, i think, gay people should be treated with love as neighbours and not be discriminated if possible be very welcomed in the church cos they stand the chance to turn a new live or repent and their life style changed… the BIBLE takes our memory to the book of Acts, the life of Apostle Paul my literally gay man, who after an encounter with JESUS CHRIST changed his lifestyle… I leave us with the book of Galatians chapter 6 vs 1 and 2 it states, if a man be overtaken by a fault ye which are spiritual restore such one in the spirit of meekness considering yourself less thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another’s burden so as to fulfill the law of CHRIST…. is just my opinion, i beg, if anyone is offended by my post…

Anonymous

I am gay. Christian. Conservative. I believe in sex within marriage. For heterosexuals. And married homosexuals. I also believe that God’s purpose for me extends beyond what others are called to do in terms of family. It is complicated, but The Lord never said ‘Follow Me and you will have the capacity to understand everything I do and everything that has been made’. A God powerful enough to make everything is smart enough and powerful enough to make only heterosexuals. Or maybe He does not want every person duty bound with children. Maybe He does not want a world where there are people whose duty and loyalty is only concerned with their own cildren. Maybe He wants a world where some of the people are free to make the art and movies and plays that entertain those who do have the call to recreate. Gay people of good will, about 95% of us, contribute to the good in society. And 25% of us voted for Bush. Most of the gay people I know want stable relationships. They want to build for the future with someone they fully love. And we won’t live a lie. God made me as I am. I was born innocent as all children are. God’s plan for me seems to be working fine. Intrust in God. And it is my personal witness that I am as He made me. I do not intend to wuestion Him about it any longer. I imagine He is tired of hearing about how stupid He is from me for making me gay. Funny how when I quit fighting it my life settled down and joy entered my life. I believe in loving God, and myself, and my neighbor. I treat people well, and have more joy as a result. Timothy 1:7. Fear of lawbreaking is not a spirit of the Lord. Hatred of people different than you,

Anonymous

Joy is of God. and love.

Equis

That was a nice try but I am sorry you can not pick and choose from the word of God. We were all given the the choice of free will but we all have to answer for our short comings in the end do we not?

LycanLew

Being gay isn’t a shortcoming. It’s just a difference in sexuality.

Equis

That’s you’re view point and how do you really know for sure but I was speaking of all types of sins in general with that statement which you apparently don’t believe in anyway.

Anonymous

I’ve been to his church, it’s a nice, welcoming experience. I saw people from all walks of life there. Straight, gay, rich, poor, healthy, sick, male, female, and every race under the sun. He truly is all inclusive and he does speak a message of lifting yourself up. Liberalism truly classifies people in so many different groups that it encourages rivalries between factions. Joel’s message is we are only in one class, God’s class, and we’re learning more and more every day. He has not once said GD America, America’s chicken’s are coming home to roost, or any such thing as Barack Hussien’s preacher did for the 20 years that he sat there. It’s telling what liberals find acceptable and what isn’t. Love vs hate. Unity vs division.

Russell Banton

We are all made human by God. We can try as much as we can to love those we don’t agree with but our flesh limits us. If believers could walk in the spirit of Christ that indwelled us, at our acceptance of him, than that spirit would love others as Christ does. That is what is keeping ‘The Church’ from expressing to the world the Jesus that changed the world. Learn ALL that Christ did for us, and gave to us, and empowers us to walk in, and the world WILL be changed.

Anonymous

Motivational preachers replaced most pastors and evangelists beginning in the 60’s. Mega-churches filled with lukewarm silent and non-testifying Christians are the result. Speaking about the health risks of sodomy and the influence gay marriage has on children can get you crucified – just like Christ. Those who do speak up are willing to endure David’s experience in Psalms 39 and Shakespeare’s wisdom portrayed in Hamlet, Act 11 scene 2.

Biff Jones

The family unit has from the beginning has been the unit of work and reproduction. God’s first command was “To be fruitful and multiply and subdue Earth”. Homosexuality is a sin and goes against that first commandment. Now all sin leads to death but certain sins have more social consequences. Mass murder > murder > stealing > cursing ….. Homosexuality has social consequence. Open homosexuality has greater social consequences than private homosexuality. Open lust and indulgence has greater social consequences than hidden lust. It’s pretty simple. All sin leads to eternal death without redemption. However, we don’t make social laws to protect people from eternal damnation, but from personal, social and societal consequences. Wake up people.

Esther Piry

aa’haa this pastor afraid to say that “it not right and not in God rule’s.” he maybe afraid to tell the world that will loose his church people, as a pastor you know the answere.. pastor tell the truth..!!!

Alex Frazier

Seeing all these comments debating the validity of the New Testament prompts me to ask Myk Nelson a question: Myk, what are you finding issue with in the New Testament in particular that is causing you to argue its validity? I also see that you have said people here are saying that the Old Testament is all but worthless, but that does not appear to be the case. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17: “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.” Jesus came to perfect the law. Without action, faith is dead. Without love, biblical truth is void. Jesus came to bring the relational side of God, the love and mercy; He came to experience life as a human so He could sympathize with us and plead our case before the Father. Those who put their faith in the sacrifice of Jesus can be forgiven no matter what sins they have committed. The Old Testament law was overridden by Jesus, who said the greatest gift is love. There are different classes of Levitical laws in the OT. There are moral laws, judicial laws and ceremonial laws. Most Christians only observe the moral laws today because those are not culturally specific or bound by time. Many things in the Bible, even in the NT, have to be interpreted based on what the original author or speaker meant to his original audience in their geographical location, culture, time, etc. In those cases, we have to extract the modern application of the principles in the Scripture, but some things are not limited by time or place, they are universally and eternally applicable (like do not kill, steal, etc).

Sumy Schick

I’ll settle the matter of homosexuality in just these two words: emotional confusion.

Jason Haas

That’s what we call COMPROMISING your faith. God clearly condemns the
sin of homosexuality yet Joel would not just come out and say that. He
took the safe road and compromised. Props to those ministers who do not
compromise and speak TRUTH, no matter what. Joel was not asked about
where HE FOCUSES his message, he was asked about same sex marriage…..
and he simply avoided answering it.

Equis

I agree Jason, he is a wish washy man. He is like a reed that blows in the wind going this way and that never speaking straight truth of the word.

Dottie Ashby

I don’t care what each individuals life choices are. God gave all of us free will. We are all sinners. We all decide everyday who and what we will portray to the world that we are. I think as Christians we forget the Love and speak in love part. Christ forgave the murderer on the cross dying who had no opportunity to turn and sin no more. Jesus loves all! That being said it deeply concerns me that Pastor Osteen referred to it as his message instead of the message God has called him to share. It’s the message of the Gospel and of Christ that is most important and no man should ever take credit for that.

Anonymous

I agree with Joel Osteen, if everybody minded their own damned business the world would be a better place. Who in hell are we as individuals to judge, some where I read that judge not less you be judge.

Dan Heizinger

You misunderstand the word ‘judge’. If you are honestly telling us you never judge, then you must be some kind of defective individual. Someone who never judged anything would be a personality blank. They would not judge any activity or event to be right or wrong, they would have no opinion on anything, including whether it was right or wrong to judge people, since that is a judgement. See how this is self-refuting?

Anonymous

Joel Osteen is not a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ [although he calls himself one] but fancies himself a life coach. It’s a huge difference he doesn’t comprehend.

Eugenna

Remember we are asked not to judge? Remembee god asked us to look at ourselves when we want to judge the others. So basically ya.. idk but i think one of the asian pastor,Philip Mantofa from Indonesia had came back from hell and from what he saw… gay people go to hell. You can go check his testimony if you want. I just came back from a rally which is conducted by him… yeah…

Anonymous

Read your bible and believe that, not some self seeking nut. Nobody makes it back from hell. That would defy it’s very function.

jbear

If you listen to Osteen’s 4 “Core Issue,” as he stated, he is way off. There is a right and a wrong, a good and a bad. There are things that are sinful in which we are not to partake. There are those who are saved and those who are not.
Jesus had a core issue, and that was as follows: people are inherently sinners and
they need to repent of their sins. They need to accept Jesus Christ
as their Lord and Savior. Only then are they saved and one their way to
heaven. One cannot walk/live in sin and call themselves Christian.

Emmie Faison

Glen Beck sounds like he don’t like anyone not even him self! If some one preach love then he is saying you are not a Christian: If he is without fault of never did anything wrong it may not be something like that but any sin ,It is no little sin or big sin it is just sin whether you thank it or not> If you never lie or committed adultery or through wrong; then let him without anything or did anything or through anything wrong then cast the first stone I believe every one of us has done something wrong in their life If they say they haven’t then they or committing a sin because the Bible say so, and you are a lie and the truth isn’t in you! Remember God knows our through, That is why it is hard to witness to others about God’s Love because or people saying things like that!!! We don’t have to agree but agree to disagree But we are call to show our brothers and sister their sin in love not hate>

lexingtonnchick

All you bible thumpers – probably all sinning yourselves. Bottom line, its not up to you to judge- God is the only judge. You want to pick and choose what you want out of the bible- fine – go ahead and convince yourself that your holier than thou and have some mission to save the world. SAVE YOURSELF. But all God wants you to do is live YOUR life as he wants, not judge others- thats his job. Jesus was kind to all sinners and didn’t judge, he walked with them, embraced and loved them. Try that!

Equis

You are right God is the judge and He will but we are to discern accordingly.

Maria

I do respect this Man ( Joel Osteen) as a Pastor and as a human being …but he is very evasive on this Question… Well i guess , he doesn’t want anybody to feel segregated from his ” Magnificent Church” , he wants everybody in it and no one wondering if he or she will ever have a chance to be accepted…. but I do think … that’s also part of his business he does have millions of followers in the USA , so the more people he can get in , more “money” will fall from “Heaven” (keep in mind is all for ” Divine Purposes”) Ooohh Well …. someone at the end of this Article …makes a comment regarding that fact that She or He believes marriage should be between a Woman and a Man…?… and I said… Really?… who can possibly number more the 10 Physical differences between both gender?… let’s take… all sexual and reproductive organs off from both !…. And What is left?…. I do believe few people in this world knows that there is really no difference between this two “Human beings” (keep in mind that’s an earthly concept …are we really humans?) … again this is my own understanding … That… “Spiritually speaking” there is no difference… I honestly believe that… We ” The Humans” can come as many times to this place call “Earth”… with a different Custom!… hey how about a Monkey suit? ….why not…?… We do come from a place of perfect Peace and Happiness none as “HEAVEN” or “NIRVANA”…. (and there is probably more names ).. to accomplish a “Learning Quest” in this World….But this ” False World” We are living in … Teach us since we are newborns that there is a Difference … and here comes all this controversy…. instead of just focusing on using our own and powerful Energy to individually grow and fulfill a lifetime of LOVE… All we do is waste this precious Energy …on ” Creating a Difference”… That doesn’t exist…. (at least and again this is my personal believe) …A difference that is contrary to the real True…That our Universal Loving being ( you can find more names to describe this loving being) … wants us to Learn…. Which is that we as Male and Female are Equally special trough his Loving Eyes…. We can fall in Love with any loving Being and fulfill our Happiness on Earth… Anybody that has the courage to do so…. is simply trying to imitate …how life really is in “Heaven”- Nirvana”

Equis

Are you for real…really

luvlaw

Joel olsteen has the platform to tell the truth as whats in the word of God. People pleasing doesnt help people to make it to heaven. If you’re gonna accept the platform and preach the gospel then preach the FULL gospel

ErikandKathy Muller

Read the book of Jude where it talks of false teachers. Verse 11, Woe to them, they follow the way of Cain, abandoned themselves to balaams error for the sake of gain, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

LycanLew

I’m gonna take a giant leap and say none of you ranting about how horrible homosexuality is have ever actually been homosexual.

Anonymous

You ever had cancer? I haven’t but I’ve both seen it and know how horrible it is. Of course not like someone who has had cancer. I’m pretty sure that’s not what you meant though. Being straight I know how blessed it isn’t which is how I understand the horror of it. Is that good enough for you?

LycanLew

Because homosexuality kills people? Really? Are you actually comparing two people who love each other to a fatal disease?
Just because someone else’s love is different from your love doesn’t make you superior or more “blessed” than the other person.
So, no. That’s not good enough for me.

Anonymous

I posted another comment in reply but the moderators got it for whatever reason. It was no more innocuous than the one above but is waiting moderation. Go figure.

Dan Heizinger

Homosexuality doesn’t kill people? Really? They seemed to be dropping like flies during the 1980s. Please tell us how those people would still be dead even if they hadn’t been having gay sex

LycanLew

HIV/AIDS actually has its origins in African primates [1], not in gay people. HIV is blood-borne. You can contract HIV from any kind of sex in which there are fluids exchanged. This includes both homosexual and heterosexual relations. You can also contract HIV from blood-blood contact (injected drugs, tainted blood donations–though those are very controlled, now). HIV is not caused by, and has never been caused by gay people. Yes, it is spread by gay people, as it is also spread by needles and straight people.
And even if it WAS confined or originating in homosexuals, it’s a disease. Just because it is limited (it is not) to a minority does not mean it is their fault. Would you blame people who have sickle cell anemia because they have African-American roots? Please do your research.

Anonymous

I don’t personally have to experience every aspect of a thing to know something of it, is my point. I know God speaks against both same sex relationships and those who approve them. I know that the male sexual member is not meant to enter the bowel. It disgusts me to even think of the embarrassing things that must take place for people of the same sex to attempt what is by design meant for the opposite sex. I didn’t say I was superior but I will hold that I’m more blessed by not being so accursed with your malady. You go ahead and live in peace if your conscience permits it; you don’t need my approval.

As an after thought, be sure that lust does not equal love whether in a same or opposite sex context.

LycanLew

The Bible also speaks against eating shrimp, wearing mixed fabrics in one garment, and advocates the man dominating the woman, who should be submissive to their husband.
You know what? You’re probably right. The biological purpose of the penis isn’t gay sex–however, keep in mind that many heterosexual couples do the same thing.
If it disgusts you to think about it, don’t think about it. I feel the same thinking about sleeping with men. Just don’t think about it.
Homosexuality is not a malady. It is not a disease. You can’t call in sick to work and claim, “can’t come in today, boss. I got a case of the gays” (trust me, I wish you could).
I do live in peace, because there is nothing wrong with this. It’s not lust, it’s love. I am in a relationship that I could very happily be in forever without ever having sexual relations again. If it was otherwise, it would be something to worry about. It’s not.

Emma

Actually marriage was created by pagans js

Anonymous

Actually you’re wrong.

LycanLew

Citations? I can’t find anything supporting either the Christian or Pagan side (except that wedding rings and ceremonies are pagan).

Anonymous

The beginning references in scripture which predate Jesus Christ by 4,000 yrs. [give or take] mention marriage as an original creation ordinance the first one ordained by God Himself upon making man and woman. Both believers and unbelievers [pagans] participate and the ceremonies are widely varied and unimportant. The main thing is the public recognition and benediction of the sexual union concerning the man and woman involved; usually with oaths and vows.

Emma

Pagans were the firsts to define marriage and have ceremonies

Emma

Christians do not alone own the rights to “marriage”, which incase anyone didn’t know pagans technically created.. So why do Christians act like they get to say who can marry? They don’t own the rights to a religious ceremony or even a ceremony bringing two people together. Marriage isn’t about just your religion

Equis

Non-Christians wouldn’t get it because they don’t believe God’s word and for your information Christian’s don’t say so God does and that’s where the Christian belief comes from. Why would a non believer want a religious ceremony anyway so maybe they should call it something else. If it is for the legalities involved in a marriage that is the sticking point but I think it is much more than that.

Emma

You can think whatever you want. Honestly though my love for another person is not less important than yours just because we are both women. Also Christians and other religions that believe in god aren’t the only religions to have ceremonies

Equis

Well since traditionally marriage has been between a man and woman than it wouldn’t be an issue if that particular union be called something else as long as the legalities are the same. What upsets people is that others try to change someone else’s perspective of reality when after all to them stereotypically it is not the same. You can’t force someone to except and view this issue the way that you want it to be viewed especially by calling it marriage. Same sex couple unions would be more excepted if they wouldn’t hijack the label of marriage which only causes resentment. However, same sex couples want the label of marriage because they don’t want to be looked upon as different when in fact they are in view of the typical norm and this probably won’t change when it all said and done.

LycanLew

I’m not completely sure where marriage itself originated, but wedding ceremonies have Pagan roots–not Christian. It’s not a “religious ceremony” unless you make it so.

Equis

The ceremony really isn’t the issue is it. The issue is basically what has always constituted a marriage and that has always been between a man and a woman.

Guest

I didn’t even say anything contrary to that in this comment (although I do believe contrary). I was addressing the fallacy that weddings are “religious ceremonies”.
DId you just upvote yourself?

Equis

Yes I did by mistake, sorry I did’t know how to undo it.

Blatant Truth

I think marriage may have been created by God? Just saying…

Anonymous

Glenn, the world is searching for answers and a Pastor is supposed to provide them. And even if a religious Pharisee were trying to trap to Jesus (to catch Him at what they presumed to be they “evil deeds” He was doing), He would wisely ask them a question OR he would say (when they wouldn’t answer His questions),”Then I won’t answer your questions.” Jesus was, is, and always will be direct and will never miss a beat. The problem with this interview is that the issue is not addressed at all. The world came to a Pastor with the issue of “gay marriage” and sadly, the Pastor avoided the opportunity to correct the Anchor with the truth of the Gospel. Why? I don’t know. But the Jesus in the Bible would have confronted that with the truth of the Bible; the truth is a double-edged sword that cuts and causes confrontation, which is why He says to do it on love. But truth saves and makes us better – not avoidance. And for some reason that “bullet” was dodged and not confronted. Jesus would have handled that bullet. We must pray for our Pastors (and other Christians) to rise up with the true Spirit of Christ and face more bullets with the sword of the Spirit, and do that in love. Only then does the world change.

Moozmom

Having known many gays during a long and happy life, I bear no ill will for anyone. Marriage, however, is between one man and one woman. Gays, when they unite, have a gay mirage.

Not ONCE did I hear Joel Osteen say anything about spreading the Gospel. Any real Christian pastor’s first desire should be to spread the Gospel. Joel Osteen is a motivational speaker, not a preacher.

Anonymous

You got that right. Not only is Osteen a life coach/motivational speaker, he motivates people in the wrong direction, toward self and away from Jesus and His redemption.

John Scott

Well its hard to say if gay relationships were prevalent hundreds or thousands of years ago. But it appears that religiously, gay marriage is soundly rejected. Now, having a civil binding marriage seems a way around this. I am fine with this as their is no legal means to argue marriage should be just between a man and woman. No doubt many of devoted faith will not be accepting of this ever. They may tolerate it, or even learn to accept it as a choice. Even the Pope has hinted that way. Obviously pro creation was about a man and woman advancing our human race. If we were all gay we would be extinct. This is not some thing I am really concerned with. I have my own religious convictions but don’t force them on others. Or expect them to force theirs on me. I don’t judge them as sinners or anything else. Clearly though not everyone will be so accepting and should this even be expected by the gay community?

Joel is more of a self help guru and not much of an evangelist. He danced all around the issue without every answering what the Bible has to say on the topic. He clearly is not a stand up man…. Move his books to self help and out of religious studies!

Andrea

I don’t go to my unbelieving friends and tell them what adulterous licentious reprobates they are, why would I treat the LGBT community any differently. Let the Holy Spirit convict them when they have ears to hear. Instead of making them feel like God hates them as they are… we are ALL sinners. Every one of us. I agree with Joel on this.. stop focusing on sin and focus on a lost people who need Christ, not your condemnation and certainly not Joseph Smith’s doctrine.

Roland Rister

I would like to inject one thought into talk of The Law. It is impossible for a man that has the Nature of Sin to do what is the Nature of God without it written or spoken to them. But if that person can have their Nature be Of God it would then be In their nature to do righteously not un lawfully. Jesus said ” You must be born again to SEE the kingdom”. Without changing from the Old Adamic race to the New Adams (Jesus) nature one cannot fulfill the Law of Love which fills up all of the Mosaic Law cause God’s nature Is Love

Faith Healer

PEOPLE……….Lighten up for Christ sake

MrRobertsturges .

First , Joel Osteen is a false teacher preaching another Jesus , another gospel and another spirit. As all prosperity teachers he is satans counterfeit for the apostate church. Those who follow their teaching are on their way to damnation. Homosexuality is a sin against God, society and the family. It is the quickest way to destroy body soul and spirit you can give yourself to. Don’t call yourself a follower of Christ if you help satan to destroy souls.

MrRobertsturges .

It is not love to be soft and wimpy on such a serious matter. Homosexuality is a grievous sin and shuts you off from God, unless you truly repent and turn from it you will eternally perish. False teachers try and make the way of salvation broad and wide but Jesus said it is straight and narrow and few find it. No one who lives in any sexual union apart from (marriage between a man and woman )has no inheritance in the kingdom of God.

Tammy Lee

The problem I have with gays is they mock Christians , God and the Bible and are very rude at it. They have no intention of repenting. So I will not place Pearls before the swine.

Ashley Bennett

I have an amazing relationship with God, pray, go to church and help anyone who is in need. God made me gay, so why shouldn’t I have the right to marry the person I love. I should and I did, I also do not care what others think of me. God is the only one who can judge me, if god didn’t want me to be gay why did he make me this way? Maybe you should all open your eyes and hearts, God says to love everyone, just because someone is gay doesn’t mean they like or want you, they are completely normal just like you. Would you like if someone hated on you every day or you got bullied because of this. I am so thankful that my christian church welcomes my wife and I, and supports our marriage! AMEN!

Adam Jenson

Not true, I know your sisters friend and she made her money turning tricks in the back alley.