NBA OFFSEASON ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION: PART 1

i65 has gathered young, dope basketball minds to discuss some of the happenings this NBA offseason.

​7/29/16

This is the first in hopefully a bi-monthly series. i65 is putting together some of the best young basketball minds in a roundtable discussion. We’re joined by i65 co-founders, Ross Weber and Joshua Chapman, as well as Michael Bruhin, Joe Leland and Joshua Vinson. Gentlemen, please introduce yourselves.

JC: Chicagoan til Chicago ends. RW: In East Indianapolis, born and raised, in the cornfields is where I spent most of my days.JL: A Bay Area hoop head since the day Iverson stepped over Lue.MB: Just another kid trying to make it out of St. Louis. JV: I’m the true suburban kid from the south burbs of Chicago.

So, first thing’s first: let’s get right to grading the Bulls and Pacers offseasons, given that they are in the two markets i65 is founded on. We’ll start with the Bulls, given that they’re a bigger market and bigger national team. What grade would you give the Chicago Bulls this offseason?

JC: Younger and more athletic. That was the narrative that the front office preached the entire offseason and was the logic behind trading Derrick Rose, as well as letting Joakim Noah and Pau Gasol walk. It made sense: they’d want to fit Fred Hoiberg’s vision on offense more effectively. Then they signed two 30-year olds in Rajon Rondo and hometown son Dwyane Wade, both of whom are ball dominant, slow-it-down guards. Not to mention drafting the young, but not so athletic, win-now, athletic upside be damned Denzel Valentine. So if the Bulls were going for younger and more athletic than Gar Forman and John Paxson, they accomplished it. But they failed miserably. Much like my beloved White Sox, the Bulls have no real future beyond one superstar they should maybe, probably trade - although for the Sox, I’d argue it’s harder to justify trading Chris Sale than Jimmy Butler. There was a perfect opportunity to flip Jimmy Butler to the Timberwolves for a package of Zach LaVine, Gorgui Dieng, Kris Dunn/5th pick/Ricky Rubio and perhaps swapping Tony Snell/Justin Holiday for Shabazz Muhammad to really kick start this rebuild and mold a younger, more athletic basketball team. Did they do it? No, because it doesn’t put fans in seats and because they totally have screwed the relationship with Tom Thibodeau. The only reason it’s not an F is because I like Dwyane Wade as a person, and there’s a longshot that he brings one of the four Super Friends (Wade, Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James) to Chicago next year. Overall grade: D-

RW: After the Bulls struggled through injuries and chemistry problems, it was obvious that they needed to mix SOMETHING up this offseason, but was dropping big bucks on past-their-prime veterans who don’t really fit together the right something? Individually, I really like Rondo, Butler and Wade, but together they seem to clash so much on and off the court. I think the Bulls have improved from last season, but these moves seem more like the Bulls are trying to sell tickets and jerseys than trying to win games. Overall: C+

JL: The Bulls are directly trying to combat the NBA’s newest sought after style, “space and pace.” While I commend front offices who try and go against the grain, because some teams follow the newests trend blindly, creating the a lineup of adding ageing guards who are historically poor shooters isn’t the solution. The Rondo-Wade-Butler trio, who will be looked to fuel the offense, shot a combined .317 3pt% last year. The Bulls front-office once again seems to be lacking a clear long-term plan. The one silver-lining for me is the fact that they retained Jimmy Butler, despite massive trade speculation. I am a firm believer that you never trade top-tier talent in the NBA. Jimmy Butler, an elite two-way player, is clearly that. Overall: D

MB: The biggest gripe I have about Chicago’s offseason is all based on the direction of the franchise. Ownership was very vocal on the trade of Derrick Rose being closing to an era, and headed towards a much younger roster. That would make sense with the type of system second year coach Fred Hoiberg wants to run. One problem, their big offseason moves actually made them older than before. While both players are former all-stars with a chip on their shoulder, I just do not know what exactly is the long term plan for this team. They seemed as if they wanted to shoot the ball more but now they are depending on 3 guards that rely on getting to the basket as their main source of offense. Overall: C

JV: First we have to give credit to Gar/Pax they said changes were coming and they stayed true to that. They traded Derrick Rose for several Knicks players and things didn’t look so well. Then, the somehow got Rajon Rondo and Dwyane Wade a Chicago native...wait Wade is from the south suburbs not Chicago. Anyway, I must give them a C+ because I’m concern with their shooting and with the fact that they didn’t get young and the potential ego clashes. However, they still did well because their young core of Valentine, Portis, Dougie, and Niko will get a chance to thrive and grow. Overall: C+

What grade would you give the Indiana Pacers this offseason?

JC: I like their offseason on paper. I wanna see them play about 30 games before I can declare whether or not they’ll be a challenge for Cleveland, and not necessarily their first 30 games either. I think having Al Jefferson and Monta Ellis anchor the bench in a slow-it-down unit is genius - don’t think Ellis is a starter with this bunch. I would’ve absolutely loved to see them grab a guy like Courtney Lee or Aaron Afflalo to be a 3 and D guy to fit with their starters. Like Thad Young’s fit, Jeff Teague is a major upgrade over George Hill. Don’t love Aaron Brooks, but I guess he’s okay. I can only imagine what Frank Vogel could’ve done with these type of offensive weapons. Very, very good offseason for Indy. Overall: A-

RW: If I’ve said it before, I’ve said it 1000 times: I trust Larry Bird. One again, it seems he’s found a way to make something out of nothing. I love adding Thaddeus Young to the group because he fits exactly want the Pacers want to do in the frontcourt. Young’s mix of athleticism, energy and an at least average mid-range jump shot will make Indiana’s transition to pace and space all the more easier. Jeff Teague is an upgrade over George Hill offensively, but the defense is what concerns me. If Teague can be league-average on defense, the Pacers look dangerous. Overall: B+

JL: For a team stationed in Indianapolis, the Pacers had a rather sexy off-season. They added offensive-minded players all at a reasonably priced value. Indiana for the first time in a while are going to try and outscore their opponents. The additions are going to help free up more space for PG-13. That said, I do have my concerns. To start, I adamantly disagree with the firing of Frank Vogel. Vogel for years has been a brilliant mind. I am not as comfortable saying that about Nate McMillan. Secondly, while the increase in offense is to be expected. The defense will suffer. The Pacers lost their only frontcourt defensive presence in Ian Mahinmi. Their solution: that with 31 year-old Al Jefferson and offensive-minded Thaddeus Young. While the offseason moves were headline worthy, the jury is still out over here. Overall: B-.

MB: The Indiana Pacers are the clear cut winners this off-season in my eyes. Trading for Jeff Teague and Thaddeus Young were both moves to show how serious they are about being a contender next year. Both being something to the table that they did not have last year, which is doing whatever it takes to get wins. Teague has shown he can control the point for a Eastern Conference contender, and Young finds different ways to impact the game every night. They also got a steal in Al Jefferson during free agency, inking him to a 3-year 30 million dollar deal. That seems like a lot of money, but in all reality that is a very good deal compared to some others around the league. I see the Pacers at the top of the Eastern Conference this year, only behind the reigning champions. Overall: A

JV: I think they did a great job! They got rid of Hill and brought in Teague and Thad Young which makes this team headed in the right direction. The goal is to beat Cleveland, and it’ll be premature to say they’ll do that now, however they did put themselves in prime position to compete. Overall: A-

Name one team in each conference that you feel had a fantastic offseason that maybe nobody is talking about - or at least isn’t that obvious on the surface.

JC: The absolute first team that comes to my mind is the Minnesota Timberwolves. I love the addition of Kris Dunn to the team - they now have 4 young, athletic players that’ll be a nightmare in transition in Dunn, dunk champ Zach LaVine, Andrew Wiggins and the superstar in the making Karl Anthony Towns. I still think they need to completely make the team an athletic nightmare and try to rid themselves of Ricky Rubio, Shabazz and Nikola Pekovic. Jordan Hill is a sneaky good addition: think he’ll play a Taj Gibson like role for them in giving them energy and rebounds. Biggest addition was clearly Tom Thibodeau. They made strides last year with subpar coaching - they now get one of today’s great basketball minds on their side. A bit worried about how he’ll mesh with Andrew Wiggins, but it should be fine. Over East, I don’t hate Dwight Howard signing with Atlanta. He’s a different kind of fit with Spurs East: they’ll be more physical, I’ll say that. He gives them size, and I kind of really like him next to Paul Millsap. I think Atlanta will be slightly improved from their record last year and they filled the Al Horford void nicely.

RW: I think the Washington Wizards definitely got better this year. They brought back Bradley Beal (who when healthy is a top 10 two-guard in the association), and added Trey Burke and Ian Mahinmi without really losing anything of consequence. They still have John Wall, they made a much-needed coaching change, and with the East outside of the top 3 or 4 looking very murky, they could slide into the 5th spot. In the West, it’s hard to ignore the Utah Jazz and what they’ve done. That roster goes 8 or 9 deep with really good players who fit roles into a team that could win a playoff series.

JL: In today’s NBA I believe depth to be incredibly overlooked. Luckily, that isn’t the case in Salt Lake City. Heading into this offseason the Jazz had two priorities find a solution at PG and add veterans. The Jazz were able to fill those voids by pulling off two highway robberies. For starters, they were able to flip their 12th overall pick, in a incredibly weak draft, for a solid starter PG in George Hill. Remember how Boston couldn’t anything of significance for the 3rd pick? Hill ultimately was traded for Baylor product Taurean Prince, you make that trade every single day of the week and twice on Sunday. Utah’s second move was also under-the-radar, when they snagged Boris Diaw for practically nothing. Diaw adds championship experience and will mainly be asked to be a facilitator, a role that he thrives in. Watch out for those music notes out in the mountains, they’re a legit threat for the first time since the D-Will era. Out East, I actually am of a fan of what the Miami Heat did. While, I have mixed feelings towards how they treated D-Wade, I can’t deny Wade is not worth 2yr 48M. By keeping that off the books the Heat have better positioned themselves for a loaded free-agent class next year. Additionally, it wasn’t just what they didn’t do, they also snagged one of my favorite free-agents, Hassan Whiteside. While statisticians don’t love him, I see a really athletic, young molding center. I trust Pat Riley to mold his maturity and for Whiteside to be an all-star Center for years to come.

MB: I might be a little biased, but I really do feel like Portland has done a lot to solidify their spot at the top of the west. They were able to add a couple pieces in Evan Turner and Festus Ezeli that should bring positive impacts on the defensive end and were able to keep their young core together. With Lillard, McCollum, Crabbe, Leonard, and Harkless all locked up for at least the next 4 years, they have something brewing in the Moda Center. Another team i think did a very good job is surprisingly the Orlando Magic. As bad as the Ibaka trade may have seemed on paper, they now have 4 very athletic big men to rotate. They were also able to bring in Toronto’s Bismack Biyombo into the mix, which is going to be interesting to see with everything they got up front. Evan Fournier resigning is also going to help them in the future. I don’t know if we will see them in the playoffs just yet, but they should hover around the 8 seed for most of the year.

JV: Well…Minnesota/Utah are both in the Western conference, but they both made moves that can potentially put them in the playoffs this coming season and that’s not a far fetch idea. You take Minny and see that they added Kris Dunn with that young core they already have as well as a coach like Thibs...I see a great team for years to come. Utah sent Trey Burke packing and upgraded with George Hill. They are guard heavy right now but I’m sure by the season they’ll have their rotation in place. Also I could say Portland. The Trail Blazers keeping their team together: I just don’t see why they got Evan Turner then gave CJ McCollum $108 million. Over to the East maybe Boston because of Horford. Orlando made moves, Washington re-signed Beal, but honestly no team in the East really “wowed” me.

Name one team in each conference that you feel had a disastrous offseason.

JC: Other than the obvious (OKC), I did not like the Los Angeles Clippers offseason. I was on record saying that they needed to trade one of their Big Three and I still believe it wholeheartedly. This group has underperformed consistently for the amount of talent and expectations they have. I think passing the opportunity to revamp their roster is a major mistake - this group will make the playoffs as a 4-6 seed and won’t get out the second round. Again. In the East, while I wouldn’t go so far to call their offseason a disaster, I was very disappointed by the Boston Celtics. Landing Al Horford was nice, but their mismanagement (we think for now) of their many draft picks and not cashing them in for another star was a big swing-and-miss for the C’s. They had an opportunity to become the clear cut #2 in the conference and missed it.

RW: The Dallas Mavericks stick out for me less because of who they got, but more because of who they missed out on. Since winning the NBA title in 2011 they have been struggling to attract free agents and keep the franchise afloat. They have the owner with deep pockets who is willing to spend in Mark Cuban, they have one of the top 5 coaches in the NBA in Rick Carlile, they have the resident selfless star who is willing to take pay cuts and teach a young protege to be the new face, so I don’t know how they keep missing their targets. I can’t wrap my head around it, and apparently neither can the Mavericks, as they end up with just Harrison Barnes (on a way too big contract) this season. In the East, I really don’t think there is anyone else to mention besides Miami. The unfortunate condition of Chris Bosh’s health combined with the arrogance of Pat Riley that resulted in the departure of the biggest legend the franchise has ever had in Dwyane Wade.

JL: Mark Cuban often talks a big -game but fails to produce the goods. Once again, Cuban failed to land his top options. The Mavericks are in dire need to find a new identity and realistically came up empty handed. Their biggest splash: signing Harrison Barnes to $95 million dollar contract. Yes, you read that right,$ 95 million dollars. The same guy who went 5/32 in the last three games of the NBA Finals while playing with three elite players. His efficiency is likely to go down as defense actually decide to gameplan around him. I got mad respect for the Dirk-Carlisle, but the Mavs could fail to make the playoffs for the first time since 2013. In terms of the biggest loser in the Eastern conference, I’ll take the Chicago Bulls. This, is going to become a theme in this roundtable, redundant, I know. That said, I feel it is warranted. Just a year ago they rotated their coach to Fred Hoiberg to create a new version of the “space and pace” identity. The following season they sign Rondo and Wade. The Bulls once again have a lack of plan for the future.

MB: It would be easy to call out the Lakers for having a bad off-season, but I want to focus on the other team in LA. The clippers were forced to stay pretty conservative in free agency. Doc Rivers has not been able to lure another star to help CP3 and Griffin out. With Blake possibly on the way out, that could change things, but as of right now they have failed with their plan and their window is quickly closing. In the East, I thought Miami really dropped the ball with letting Dwyane Wade walk. Regardless of what else they were able to do, they offered a contract so low that Dwyane felt the need to leave the franchise that was all he knew. It is usually pretty hard to criticize the legend that is Pat Riley, but this way a bad look on the franchise. You don’t do that to someone who has continuously done things for the better of the team.

JV: I really don’t know what direction the Kings, Lakers or OKC is going right now. I think all three of those teams don’t know what they are doing. Though, I’ll admit at least the Lakers were fun at Summer League. In the East, you have to put Chicago in that box because what if everything backfires? What if Fred can’t handle Jimmy and Rondo? Other teams in the East not sure what’s going on in Miami, they failed by not retaining Dwyane Wade.

One team in each conference that you think will be better than most people think.

JC: I believe in everything Sam Hinkie did in Philadelphia. If you don’t have a star to build around, you better get bad fast to try to get one. That’s why I think Philly will be better set long-term than my Chicago Bulls will. Not only do they have Ben Simmons, who everyone should be ecstatic about as a passer, but they’ll finally be getting Joel Embiid from injury. I think people forget how good Embiid was coming out of college - he was going to be the first overall selection ahead of Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker. I think he’s the guy they build around and Simmons settles into a more natural #2 role who plays off of Embiid, thriving on the pick and roll. I’m probably a lot higher on Embiid than most people are - I don’t think there’s a lot that separates him from Karl Anthony Towns, DeMarcus Cousins or Anthony Davis skillset wise. Nerlens Noel and Dario Saric seem like a great fit together off the bench as spark plugs with Noel being able to play the 5 next to Saric at the 4. Their pick and roll tandem should be deadly too. The only person who I don’t see as a fit is Jahlil Okafor and I think they’ll eventually flip him for a guard or a wing. Out West, even though they lost Kevin Durant, I still think Oklahoma City will be a playoff team. They might drop down to about 6, but Russell Westbrook is coming out with a vengeance this season and I honestly would not be surprised if he wins MVP. Him and Victor Oladipo in the same backcourt is scary athletic and will cause all types of problems on defense. Domantas Sabonis next to Steven Adams should be a nice pairing. I really hope they get Golden State in the first round.

Okay, I’m sure the blocks per game stat gave away who Player B is (Hassan Whiteside), but Player A is Dwight Howard. They had very similar seasons last year and yet Whiteside is said to have been phenomenal and Howard is a disaster? This is why I think the Atlanta Hawks can still be a top 4 team in the East. I know Howard has had some off-court issues the last few years, but I’m willing to re-open the “all this might not be Dwight’s fault” conversation. He’s had to play with Kobe Bryant and James Harden over the last four years, I don’t think those are the kind of guys I’d want to be teammates with either. I’m not saying a change of scenery to Atlanta will cure everything, but it could do a lot for Dwight in terms of just doing what he likes to do best: have fun again. Keep your eyes open for a Howard renaissance (maybe just back to All-Star form) this next season. In the West, the rumors of Oklahoma City’s death are greatly over-exaggerated. I can’t wait to see Russell Westbrook average as close to a triple-double as humanly possible and single-handedly claw the Thunder to a top 5 record in the conference.

JL: I’ll keep my positivity going in the Rocky Mountain region. I am a big advocate for what Denver is building. Recently, they seem to have a keen eye for young talent. This is not me saying they’re going to make noise in the playoffs. Heck, I don’t think they make the playoffs. But, I do love the young depth they are creating. I find just about every player, with the exception of Kenneth Faried, on that team to be undervalued. In particular I suggest people to keep your eye out for Nikola Jokic and Gary Harris as breakout candidates. I do wish they made a little more noise via free agency but franchises like the Denver Nuggets can’t count on Free agency to bolster their roster. I liked both of their first picks in Jamal Murray and Malik Beasley to fit well. Mike Malone will a very tough job this year determining the best rotations but I trust a fittingly underrated coach. In the Eastern conference I’ll pick the Milwaukee Bucks. I was wrong last year about them, when I thought they would be a playoff team, so why not pick them again. The Bucks went through valleys and peaks last year. As their core continues to mature I expect a more consistent bunch. With the Greek Freak at PG they’re going to rank high on the NBA League Pass power-rankings. Two main differences from last year, I think having Coach Jason Kidd for all 82 games will be important and I also think Jabari Parker suffered from his torn-ACL then more believed.

MB: OKC might have lost a top 5 player in the league, but guess what? They still have one. His name is Russell Westbrook. We have seen how special he can be when it is just him running the show, and with the addition of Victor Oladipo to the backcourt they have the most athletic 1-2 punch in the league. The team’s style will be a lot different, which will also help players like Enes Kanter and Cameron Payne. I still believe Oklahoma City will be a tough out come playoff time, especially if they somehow match-up against Durant and the Warriors. My team in the East is no doubt the 76ers. Yes, they have been the laughing stock of the league for a while but they are getting everyone at once. A healthy Embiid, a brand new Simmons, the overseas talent Saric, and a developing Okafor. There were a lot of rumors about one of the big men moving, but I think their size up front will cause a lot of problems in an Eastern Conference that lacks size. Their only problem will come from their backcourt, but I think Simmons should be able to help players like Robert Covington and TJ McConnell be able to function within the offense. They have an outside chance to make the playoffs on paper. It will all be determined on how fast all these young guys click.

JV: I agree, I think Denver will make a huge improvement this year, but the team I’m watching is New Orleans. They took a huge setback after their coaching change, but now they have some guards around AD that are healthy so I’m looking for them to be significantly better. Out East, I’m looking at the Milwaukee Bucks. Milwaukee must rebound after one year making the playoffs then the next year being one of the worst teams. ​