Originally Posted by DArtagnan
The loot design is a result of not understanding the appeal of loot. The skill system is the result of not understanding the appeal of replayability.

Unfortunately, the team in charge of Diablo 3 simply didn't understand Diablo. However, they were fine craftsmen - and if they'd taken on another game - I'm sure it would have been quite fantastic.

Another example of certain people believing that the only option is never to change something or appeal to other people than themselves. Diablo 3 is different to previous Diablo games.. and it's better IMHO.

It doesn't matter which of our opinions is right individually, but sales will judge if Blizzard were right or not.

Originally Posted by kalniel
Another example of certain people believing that the only option is never to change something or appeal to other people than themselves. Diablo 3 is different to previous Diablo games.. and it's better IMHO.

It doesn't matter which of our opinions is right individually, but sales will judge if Blizzard were right or not.

Sales mean nothing when it's based on names. The sales of the expansion, however, will mean something.

I have absolutely no problem with them changing something - that's their choice. I'm speaking about why they're facing such a negative reaction. If that was what they wanted, then good for them. I doubt it, though.

Personally, I'd have evolved what was already there and working. I wouldn't have changed what worked into something inferior. I'd have expanded the scope and the feature-set.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I'm speaking about why they're facing such a negative reaction.

A negative reaction from a subset of fans, sure. The critics haven't given it a negative reaction - metacritic is standing at 88% and top of the 'current PC games' list. A measly 7.5k end users have rated it, with the usual troll reaction user ratings often get on metacritic

You're right though, initial great sales could be due to the name. We'll see how things drop off over time and with expansions.

Originally Posted by kalniel
A negative reaction from a subset of fans, sure. The critics haven't given it a negative reaction - metacritic is standing at 88% and top of the 'current PC games' list. A measly 7.5k end users have rated it, with the usual troll reaction user ratings often get on metacritic

You're right though, initial great sales could be due to the name. We'll see how things drop off over time and with expansions.

Exactly. If the expansion sells a similar amount of copies - then I'll gladly concede that it must be the minority who has a problem with it.

That said, as a major Diablo fan - I certainly don't think it was a worthy sequel. But it did do a few things very well, and as all Blizzard games - it's extremely well crafted.

the thing that's working against D3's "perpetual endgame" is the times in which it's released. Action rpgs werent exactly new when D2 came out, but there werent a thousand of them on the market. Grinding away for the sake of grinding away just isnt what it used to be.

The genre itself has just grown old. I cant play Torchlight 2 as fanatically either as I would have ten years ago, and that's a good game too.

I believe that the D2 expansion sold about 25% of what D2 sold. So those are probably the numbers we should be looking for in D3 if you want to compare their popularity. I'll be curious to see how it goes myself.

Originally Posted by fadedc
I believe that the D2 expansion sold about 25% of what D2 sold. So those are probably the numbers we should be looking for in D3 if you want to compare their popularity. I'll be curious to see how it goes myself.

Probably a misread. According to Blizzard's press release, the expansion sold 1million copies in the first month, while the original game sold 4 million in the first year. But that's not like for like. The same press release says they're about the same:

Sales of the expansion have rivaled those of the Diablo II

Though they only shipped 2million to retailers, so perhaps they were expecting it to slow down and actually hit about 50% at most.

I don't think the expansion to D3 will rival the sales of the original game, largely because we're in a different game market now, but I could be wrong, I do expect them to be at least as good as sales of the LOD expansion though.

However, it appears that they got their own numbers from the press release you were talking about.

Originally Posted by kalniel
Probably a misread. According to Blizzard's press release, the expansion sold 1million copies in the first month, while the original game sold 4 million in the first year. But that's not like for like. The same press release says they're about the same:

Though they only shipped 2million to retailers, so perhaps they were expecting it to slow down and actually hit about 50% at most.

I don't think the expansion to D3 will rival the sales of the original game, largely because we're in a different game market now, but I could be wrong, I do expect them to be at least as good as sales of the LOD expansion though.

We're in a different market, sure. The market where Diablo 3 sold more than 10 million copies. A much larger market.

Also, Diablo 3 can't be pirated - which was not the case with Diablo 2 and expansion. So, I'd expect an expansion to sell at least 7-8 million copies to make the base game qualify as a true success with fans. If people love it - they'll be more than willing to shell out for a meaty expansion.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
We're in a different market, sure. The market where Diablo 3 sold more than 10 million copies. A much larger market.

Also, Diablo 3 can't be pirated - which was not the case with Diablo 2 and expansion. So, I'd expect an expansion to sell at least 7-8 million copies to make the base game qualify as a true success with fans. If people love it - they'll be more than willing to shell out for a meaty expansion.

Are you in the same DLC loving market as the rest of us DArt? No expansion sells 80% of original copy sales these days. If that's your success threshold then I'm sorry but I won't be able to take you seriously if you go on about failure

Originally Posted by kalniel
Are you in the same DLC loving market as the rest of us DArt? No expansion sells 80% of original copy sales these days. If that's your success threshold then I'm sorry but I won't be able to take you seriously if you go on about failure

I don't think I worry too much about you taking me seriously, to be honest

As for DLC loving market - I have no idea what you're talking about. Developers love to offer DLC because they can take advantage of the impulse-buy threshold - but AFAIK, fans of games just want more content no matter what. In fact, I think most gamers prefer expansions - they're just not available these days.

What are you basing your insight on expansion sales on? What modern examples of AAA game expansions are we talking about?

I heard that there are already more than one "private"server that allow playing pirated version of D3.There are hundreds of private(as they call them)servers for every version WoW so I don't see why would D3 be exception.

Originally Posted by Nameless one
I heard that there are already more than one "private"server that allow playing pirated version of D3.There are hundreds of private(as they call them)servers for every version WoW so I don't see why would D3 be exception.

You heard? Yeah. But it's not working at all. It's a very inferior version with almost no features. I've tried it myself - so I know.

D3 - as of yet - hasn't been cracked in any way resembling the full version.