Listed as AM but you cannot form a minesweeping TF with them only minelaying

witpqs -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/12/2012 3:22:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Listed as AM but you cannot form a minesweeping TF with them only minelaying

Could you explain a bit? Why would you want to form a minesweeping TF with them only minelaying?

Barb -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/12/2012 6:11:24 PM)

He wanted to say that you cannot form Minesweeping TF with AMs (which should be allowed). Instead it is possible to form a Minelaying TF (possible if they carry mines = had mine device).

Chris H -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/12/2012 9:43:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Listed as AM but you cannot form a minesweeping TF with them only minelaying

Could you explain a bit? Why would you want to form a minesweeping TF with them only minelaying?

I don't, I want to form a minesweeper TF but can't. There is no MSW option only minelayer.

Alfred -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/14/2012 7:39:17 AM)

The obvious answer is that the Fugas class is not seen as a vald minesweeper.[:)]

Do you still have the French Chevreuil AM class (and not converted it to KV)? That class together with the Soviet Fugas are the only AM classes to not have any ASW weapons.

It seems to me that when the AM type mission was changed from classical WITP to AE something may have been overlooked in the program so that currently in AE for an AM class to be considered to be a valid ship to be placed in a minesweeping TF the ship must have ASW weapons.

Alfred

Alfred -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/14/2012 7:41:23 AM)

The obvious answer is that the Fugas class is not seen as a vald minesweeper.[:)]

Do you still have the French Chevreuil AM class (and not converted it to KV)? That class together with the Soviet Fugas are the only AM classes to not have any ASW weapons.

It seems to me that when the AM type mission was changed from classical WITP to AE something may have been overlooked in the program so that currently in AE for an AM class to be considered to be a valid ship to be placed in a minesweeping TF the ship must have ASW weapons.

Alfred

Chris H -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/14/2012 12:07:49 PM)

I'm not trying to form a ASW TF. I'm trying to form a minesweeping TF which is what an AM is, a minesweeper. I cannot do this with a Fugas class AM as it is equipped with mines and will only form a minelaying TF. If equipped as it is it should be a CM. I have just check on the internet and the Fugas class was a minesweeper so it is wrongly equipped in the game.

Alfred -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/14/2012 12:44:15 PM)

I know you are not trying to form an ASW TF. I can read.

I am suggesting that in the change from classical WITP to AE, which affected the type of missions an AM was capable of, something has gone awry and that currently in AE perhaps the code does not recognise an AM class which lacks any ASW weapons as being a valid ship to form a minesweeping task force.

Frankly I was trying to give michaelm a leg up in tracking down the source of this prima facie bug and in the process give you a possible explanation, pending michaelm's definitive answer.

As to the internet disclosing the Fugas class was a minesweeper and therefore it is wrongly equipped in the game, that is an irrelevancy. There is no minesweeping device in the game, thus you can't correctly or incorrectly equip minesweepers in the game. It all depends on whether the game code recognises a class as a valid minesweeper.

Rather than rushing off to the internet to check on the Fugas, have you bothered to check whether the same problem also afflicts the French class I nominated as having the same deficiency. Obviously if the French class can be formed into a minesweeper TF then some other factor is responsible.

Alfred

US87891 -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/14/2012 4:35:41 PM)

It looks like a weird little bug is skittering around. Fugasses are minesweepers but also have special auxiliary mines. If all of the minesweepers in a port have special auxiliary mines they wonít form a minesweeper TF. If there is one minesweeper in the port without special auxiliary mines then I can make a minesweeper TF and also put Fugasses into it just fine.

One more weird thing is if I edit the Fugasses mine weapon and move the 15 from armor to ammo and make them real mines instead of special auxiliary mines the Fugasses make a minesweeper TF just fine too. I think it is when all of the minesweepers have special auxiliary mines that the make new TF thinks you want a minelaying TF and doesnít show the minesweeping TF.

Matt

Alfred -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/14/2012 4:55:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

It looks like a weird little bug is skittering around. Fugasses are minesweepers but also have special auxiliary mines. If all of the minesweepers in a port have special auxiliary mines they wonít form a minesweeper TF. If there is one minesweeper in the port without special auxiliary mines then I can make a minesweeper TF and also put Fugasses into it just fine.

One more weird thing is if I edit the Fugasses mine weapon and move the 15 from armor to ammo and make them real mines instead of special auxiliary mines the Fugasses make a minesweeper TF just fine too. I think it is when all of the minesweepers have special auxiliary mines that the make new TF thinks you want a minelaying TF and doesnít show the minesweeping TF.

Matt

That is an even better explanation for the prima facie bug than mine. Although it can still stem from the change of function for AM types since classical WITP. It should help michaelm in tracking down the problem. Or it could be something else.[:)]

Alfred

US87891 -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/14/2012 5:24:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred Or it could be something else.[:)]

Alfred

Ha, ha. It always is something else.[8D] I checked some more things that might help. It looks like itís depends on what kind of mine weapon is listed for the class.

With nothing but Fugasses in port Ö.

If the Fugas class has special auxiliary mines but if you remove them from the Fugas ships, you canít make a minesweeping TF.

If the Fugas class doesnít have special auxiliary mines but you add them the Fugas ships, you can make a minesweeping TF.

If the Fugas class is modified to have real mines you can make a minesweeping TF no matter if the Fugas ships have real or auxiliary mines.

Put one Chevreuil in port Ö.

You can make a minesweeping TF and add Fugasses to it no matter what the class or ships have as mine weapons, real or auxiliary..

If you give the Chevreuil ship auxiliary mines you can still make a minesweeping TF and add any of the Fugasses to it.

If you give the Chevreuil class auxiliary mines so that every ship in port is part of a class thet has auxiliary mines, you canít make a minesweeping TF.

None of these classes or ships have any ASW weapons at all. I can check some other things if you think of some.

Matt

Chris H -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/15/2012 1:31:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

I know you are not trying to form an ASW TF. I can read.

I am suggesting that in the change from classical WITP to AE, which affected the type of missions an AM was capable of, something has gone awry and that currently in AE perhaps the code does not recognise an AM class which lacks any ASW weapons as being a valid ship to form a minesweeping task force.

Frankly I was trying to give michaelm a leg up in tracking down the source of this prima facie bug and in the process give you a possible explanation, pending michaelm's definitive answer.

As to the internet disclosing the Fugas class was a minesweeper and therefore it is wrongly equipped in the game, that is an irrelevancy. There is no minesweeping device in the game, thus you can't correctly or incorrectly equip minesweepers in the game. It all depends on whether the game code recognises a class as a valid minesweeper.

Rather than rushing off to the internet to check on the Fugas, have you bothered to check whether the same problem also afflicts the French class I nominated as having the same deficiency. Obviously if the French class can be formed into a minesweeper TF then some other factor is responsible.

Alfred

Not how you previous post read to me since you talked about ASW but it's no biggy as far as I'm concerned No I don't have any French AM.

Having no idea what a Fugas ship was in real life, checking on the internet is a valid option. It could have been a minelayer for all I knew and therefore it's classification as an AM in the game would be wrong and, like you I was attempting to isolate the problem.

GI Jive -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/15/2012 4:25:01 PM)

I have created my own mod, but I don't think I changed anything with the Fugas Class. I have put single Fugas ships into Escort task forces to build their experience. When I click "done" and the task force screen pops back, the task force is listed as "minesweeping". So, it appears to be a bug but it is a workaround option for getting Fugas MSWs into minesweeping duty. You may want to check if this works in a standard scenario.

US87891 -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/15/2012 5:50:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

I know you are not trying to form an ASW TF. I can read.

I am suggesting that in the change from classical WITP to AE, which affected the type of missions an AM was capable of, something has gone awry and that currently in AE perhaps the code does not recognise an AM class which lacks any ASW weapons as being a valid ship to form a minesweeping task force.

Frankly I was trying to give michaelm a leg up in tracking down the source of this prima facie bug and in the process give you a possible explanation, pending michaelm's definitive answer.

As to the internet disclosing the Fugas class was a minesweeper and therefore it is wrongly equipped in the game, that is an irrelevancy. There is no minesweeping device in the game, thus you can't correctly or incorrectly equip minesweepers in the game. It all depends on whether the game code recognises a class as a valid minesweeper.

Rather than rushing off to the internet to check on the Fugas, have you bothered to check whether the same problem also afflicts the French class I nominated as having the same deficiency. Obviously if the French class can be formed into a minesweeper TF then some other factor is responsible.

Alfred

Not how you previous post read to me since you talked about ASW but it's no biggy as far as I'm concerned No I don't have any French AM.

Having no idea what a Fugas ship was in real life, checking on the internet is a valid option. It could have been a minelayer for all I knew and therefore it's classification as an AM in the game would be wrong and, like you I was attempting to isolate the problem.

Alfred was trying to help because sometimes the historical classes get caught up in the games abstraction. Fugas was a minesweeper but also had a mine capability. http://www.navypedia.org/ships/russia/ru_ms_fugas.htm So how do we represent this in the game? Game gives the Fugas class special auxiliary mines. It's just a little bug that only effects the Soviets because they are the only country that doesn't have a AM class without auxiliary mines.

Matt

michaelm -> RE: Russian Fugas Class AMs (7/16/2012 8:56:33 AM)

Ships with special abilities can skip getting allocated to other valid TF missions. This is similar to an earlier issue around what could go into Sweep or Local Sweep TFs.

I'll update the check to allow for the general purpose TFs that is normally there. If it passes the special ability check, then adding for the general class, if not already set, will ensure that it shows up.