This weekend I will be taking part in an nvc course. I will most likely take notes and post them here on this blog, and would meanwhile like to share the excitement I feel over learning this system of communication (awareness of the many ways to connect and disconnect) by guiding whoever is reading this blog to these videos on youtube – Recordings of a one day introductory workshop with the person who came up with nvc, Marshall Rosenberg:

My mind circles around specific things. It would do me good to take each thing, pick it up, look closely, and feel all there is to feel, and understand the 'why' in each moment. Then I could lay it down, and pick up the next piece that attracts my attention. A journey within myself. Turning trauma into exploration and discovery. -- I wonder if I can turn ptss into play?

Writing to get things sorted out in my head. And maybe as well writing, cause I’m surprised that some people have a really strange idea of what my life is like. Right now, I’m a recluse, most of the time on my bed staring at a computer screen, searching for reality shows to watch, perfectly aware, that this is not ‘sane’ activity. I do not have an ‘interesting’ nor ‘active’ life. My life is very boring, very much physically set in some square metres – bed, kitchen, toilet. I’m dealing with mental problems, and getting some healing done. I stay by myself cause I easily get agitated around other people and I don’t enjoy their company. I feel disconnected and bored. I stay by myself cause I can’t easily find people who would enjoy, and not get bored in, my own company.

I’ve traveled like mad and felt scared and disconnected and frustrated. My mind mostly stays around what’s been damaging and hurtful. The learning, the care, the love, is somehow not there when I flash through the past – over and over again (=ptss). I’m isolating myself cause I find what is around me unbearable, and also cause of having lived through so much disconnection being with other people. I’m very lucky to have this opportunity: A Room – a space where I can come and go and stay, and do as I please – my life before, staying on the road and being homeless, has not been a ‘fun’ or ‘romantic’ experience as many seem to think it is.

When I leave my room and walk in the streets outside I speak by myself – unwillingly. I laugh inside when I do it (I have a very dry sense of humor..) cause I have no control over myself, and I’m fully aware that it’s the lack of social life, causing this behavior – A mad person muttering and mumbling to herself.

In my loneliness, there’s been a lot of apathy. Not being able to take care of myself, moving my body or cooking – fairly simple things – experienced as ‘impossible’ and not finding motivation for it. Luckily I’ve gotten in touch with a few persons I can connect with over skype – experiencing a similar ‘madness’ a similar isolation and pain. I find support in this, knowing that I’m not alone in not functioning. Not alone in now and then curling up in a ball and opening my mouth in a silent sob, while tears stream down my face. Not alone in going numb. My pain is normal. My response to the disconnection and violence around me is experienced by many.

Anyhow. In spite of a not so exciting life, and fairly misanthropic and depressed take on ‘reality’ after three decades of breathing, I can honestly say that I love what I’ve learnt so far, and I experience great frustration in not figuring out how to get to practice it in a crowd. This blog has been a stage for me, from where I can speak uninterrupted, in my own words, with the response most often being “crazy!” and “fuck you!” — I can’t make sense to most people. But if I can find a few willing to connect with me as a human being instead of whatever picture you have in your mind, and I for whatever reason could be able to see you through my own expectations and labels – I would be a very happy person.

My name is Milla and i'm in some weird healing process at the moment, involving hermit-life in my room, spending a lot of time online, trying to not feel guilty about 'just existing' with no purpose whatsoever. I experience a lot of shame and guilt because of both internalized and external expectations of what my life is 'supposed to' be like. I want to drop out from the 'scene' but not really sure of how to do that. I want to experience some joy and meaning with what i say and do -- meanwhile there's a lot of blah blah happening. My life is pretty boring. When i think about it, i guess my hermit-life is pretty mainstream, so this could actually be a possible way of dropping out 😛

Daniel and i are talking about how we’re feeling about talking, and trying to reach some agreement on how and when to talk with one another. The sum-up would maybe be something like: This is a process that will change over time, and right now I’m working on myself a lot, going through pretty intense emotions and figuring out what i need and what i can do to not be completely unbalanced and reactive — I’m looking for healing. I want to experience connection with others, and I’m worn out at the moment, in need of a deep caring connection with myself, so it’s too painful and exhausting to try to dig out what other people go through, and Daniel does not want to open up too much, and is at the same time expressing wishes to contribute to my healing process, as well as feelings of frustration and confusion in relation to not knowing how to do that, and has also expressed fear of being ‘used’ as a ‘tool’ (i don’t know what feelings and needs are behind this expression [‘used’, ‘tool’] maybe it’s a longing to be seen and understood and to matter. these are general guesses out of my own experiences as a human being on earth, needs that i have when relating to other human beings, but only Daniel knows what is really going on for her. i can only guess.)

What can i say.. I’m confused and clueless, so no wonder if anybody reading this would feel the same.

.

signs used to make the conversation more coherent:

– >> means: ‘your turn to talk’

%>> means: ‘i’m shortly interrupting your speaking turn to ask or answer a question, or for a short (possibly ‘relevant’) comment’

.

[01:02] <millaa> i’m ready whenever you are
[01:02] <millaa> –
[01:02] <VazsonyiD> you here?
[01:02] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:02] <millaa> yes
[01:02] <millaa> –
[01:05] <VazsonyiD> so we shoud agree on a time frame
[01:06] <VazsonyiD> like how often should we talk
[01:06] <VazsonyiD> once a week?
[01:06] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:06] <millaa> i have some questions first, if it’s okay with you?
[01:06] <millaa> –
[01:07] <VazsonyiD> ok
[01:07] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:08] <millaa> so i start with this: you expressed confusion before, do you have any direct questions to ask me? i would like to help in making things clear.
[01:08] <millaa> –
[01:10] <VazsonyiD> there are so many triggers related to me
[01:10] <VazsonyiD> i cant understand why would it be healing to talk to me
[01:10] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:11] <millaa> would you like to rephrase what you just said into a question? it would help me in understanding what you are asking for.
[01:11] <millaa> –
[01:13] <VazsonyiD> how can i help to heal?
[01:13] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:14] <millaa> in no longer avoiding having a talk that i wanted for a couple of years.
[01:14] <millaa> hearing me out.
[01:15] <millaa> and responding whatever comes up.
[01:15] <millaa> even better: that you reflect your feelings and needs openly.
[01:15] <millaa> that would keep me safe in this talk.
[01:15] <millaa> you speaking feelings and needs.
[01:15] <millaa> and saying concretely what you wish to happen.
[01:16] <millaa> is this clear enough?
[01:16] <millaa> –
[01:18] <VazsonyiD> i only want half of it
[01:18] <VazsonyiD> or i can only agree with half of it
[01:19] <VazsonyiD> cause i didnt wish this whole thing to happen
[01:19] <VazsonyiD> so my feelings and needs are not for you to understand or to live up to
[01:19] <VazsonyiD> im not seeking a connection with you
[01:20] <VazsonyiD> i dont know if hearing you out is enough for you
[01:20] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:21] <millaa> could you specify what the thing is that you didn’t wish to happen?
[01:21] <millaa> –
[01:23] <VazsonyiD> well you completely randomly texted me
[01:24] <VazsonyiD> i went into talking ok
[01:24] <VazsonyiD> but it was not my intention
[01:24] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:24] <millaa> you went against your own will?
[01:24] <millaa> –
[01:25] <VazsonyiD> kinda
[01:25] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:26] <millaa> and now you’re feeling vulnerable and confused of what to do? you want emotional safety?
[01:26] <millaa> –
[01:26] <VazsonyiD> i want to see an end to this
[01:26] <VazsonyiD> i wanted it also years ago
[01:26] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:27] <millaa> an end to talking about emc and our vulnerabilities?
[01:27] <millaa> –
[01:28] <VazsonyiD> yes
[01:28] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:29] <millaa> but you are ernest in your intent to help me healing?
[01:29] <millaa> –
[01:29] <VazsonyiD> yes you are a human too
[01:29] <VazsonyiD> and i caused you harm
[01:29] <VazsonyiD> i understand that
[01:29] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:29] <millaa> ok.
[01:29] <millaa> more questions.
[01:29] <millaa> or. confusion.
[01:30] <millaa> i experience it as ‘mixed messages’
[01:30] <millaa> when you say you want to help.
[01:30] <millaa> and to give me space, and to hear me out.
[01:30] <millaa> and at the same time you are saying things you don’t want.
[01:31] <millaa> like reading pages of me expressing myself openly about memories of moments i’ve had with you where i felt unsafe.
[01:31] <millaa> you say you don’t want to read pages of what i have to say.
[01:32] <millaa> and that gets me confused. and a bit stressed i guess.
[01:33] <millaa> also that when i say that my goal is healing
[01:33] <millaa> cause i see self-healing as the only realistic thing i can ask for
[01:34] <millaa> when i express this you say that you’re a tool being used for my cause.
[01:34] <millaa> i don’t understand that.
[01:34] <millaa> could you say something more about these things?
[01:34] <millaa> –
[01:34] <VazsonyiD> i dont see where i fit in this discussion
[01:34] <VazsonyiD> thats why i say i feel like a tool
[01:35] <VazsonyiD> cause what you say could be my role in this talk i dont want/need
[01:36] <VazsonyiD> reading what you write
[01:36] <VazsonyiD> for me its the quantity that is problematic
[01:36] <VazsonyiD> you write really a lot
[01:36] <VazsonyiD> you could write several books on your life
[01:37] <VazsonyiD> you kinda do aswell
[01:37] <VazsonyiD> i have several books to read in my life
[01:38] <VazsonyiD> i can ask you to be shorter
[01:38] <VazsonyiD> if its not possible i dont know what can i do
[01:38] <VazsonyiD> i have limited brain capacity and time for all this
[01:38] <VazsonyiD> i cant make this my main activity in my everyday life
[01:38] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:39] <millaa> i hear a need for relief. of all kinds of sorts.
[01:39] <millaa> and i can relate to that.
[01:39] <millaa> i like the idea of talking about the examples on skype.
[01:40] <millaa> i would like to have the talks recorded.
[01:40] <millaa> you said you did not want to befriend me on any social network.
[01:40] <millaa> my suggestion is that you create an account that you use temporarily only for this purpose.
[01:40] <millaa> what do you say about this idea?
[01:40] <millaa> –
[01:42] <VazsonyiD> i can befriend you for the time of the talk
[01:43] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:43] <millaa> you seem to be more tech than i. and i don’t really have any friends to ask. would you be willing to check what’s needed to make a recording of webcam and talk on skype?
[01:44] <millaa> –
[01:46] <VazsonyiD> what do you need it for?
[01:46] <VazsonyiD> documentation on your website?
[01:46] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:47] <millaa> yes. it’s to support me emotionally. when lacking community, the blog is kind of ‘there for me’.
[01:47] <millaa> it gives me safety.
[01:48] <millaa> kind of like a really good friend giving ‘sanity checks’.
[01:48] <millaa> was this clear enough?
[01:48] <millaa> –
[01:50] <VazsonyiD> sure
[01:50] <VazsonyiD> im just not sure if i want to be a co-author to it
[01:50] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:51] <millaa> could you specify what you mean?
[01:51] <millaa> –
[01:53] <VazsonyiD> i value my face and voice
[01:54] <VazsonyiD> i dont think i would feel comfortable appearing on the blog in anything other than text
[01:54] <VazsonyiD> which i cannot avoid anyways
[01:54] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:55] <millaa> would you be willing to make transcripts of what you say in the talks?
[01:55] <millaa> –
[01:57] <VazsonyiD> the chat seems much simpler
[01:57] <VazsonyiD> –
[01:57] <millaa> in text i can’t hear the tone of your voice.
[01:57] <millaa> some of your text seems ‘sarcastic’. this would be much easier to hear in a voice chat.
[01:58] <millaa> i would appreciate voice chat. i’m tired of writing all the time.
[01:58] <millaa> –
[01:59] <VazsonyiD> me too
[02:00] <VazsonyiD> ok we can try skype
[02:00] <VazsonyiD> i dont know if it is possible
[02:01] <VazsonyiD> to record
[02:01] <VazsonyiD> i will check
[02:01] <VazsonyiD> when?
[02:01] <VazsonyiD> –
[02:02] <millaa> are you agreeing to having recorded voice/cam talks between us posted on the blog?
[02:02] <millaa> –
[02:02] <VazsonyiD> sure
[02:02] <VazsonyiD> –
[02:03] <millaa> strange.
[02:03] <millaa> i experience relief.
[02:03] <millaa> workload lessened. which provides me with some of the ease i’ve been longing for.
[02:04] <millaa> also that you will check for ways of recording. active co-operation.
[02:04] <millaa> i feel.
[02:04] <millaa> something ‘positive’
[02:04] <millaa> like nice, or something.
[02:05] <millaa> i don’t know what to say.
[02:06] <millaa> thank you. i guess.
[02:06] <millaa> i value your support.
[02:06] <millaa> –
[02:08] <VazsonyiD> im really tired
[02:08] <VazsonyiD> when should we have this talk?
[02:08] <VazsonyiD> –
[02:09] <millaa> a couple of weeks from now. sometime after 21st.
[02:09] <millaa> i’m tired too.
[02:09] <millaa> difficult to think.
[02:10] <millaa> how about you get back to me within a week on how recording works, so i can fix all that on my end befor the talk.
[02:10] <millaa> i have windows xp. would you need more info than that?
[02:11] <millaa> how does this sound to you?
[02:11] <millaa> –
[02:11] <VazsonyiD> no its enough info
[02:11] <VazsonyiD> what about the blog until then?
[02:11] <VazsonyiD> –
[02:12] <millaa> i don’t understand. could you be more specific with what you are suggesting? and also say what info you need to find out about skype/recording?
[02:12] <millaa> –
[02:13] <millaa> % sorry. noticed you said you didn’t need more info.
[02:14] <VazsonyiD> ummm
[02:14] <VazsonyiD> nothing
[02:15] <VazsonyiD> so i will tell you about the technical bla in a week
[02:15] <VazsonyiD> and then we will talk about when to have the skype thing
[02:15] <VazsonyiD> right?
[02:15] <VazsonyiD> –
[02:16] <millaa> yes. where will you inform me? i will post this talk on the blog. you could post the technical bla in the comment section. yes?
[02:16] <millaa> –
[02:17] <VazsonyiD> ok
[02:17] <VazsonyiD> –
[02:19] <VazsonyiD> so good night then
[02:19] <VazsonyiD> i guess
[02:19] <millaa> i fear asking you. but i would really like to have the links to what your ex has posted on the net after breaking up with you. v told me about these videos. i’m not in any contact wtih her anymore, so i don’t have anyone else to ask. i would really like to have links to those vids.
[02:19] <VazsonyiD> if there is nothing else…
[02:20] <millaa> could you post the links somewhere?
[02:20] <millaa> here and now? possibly?
[02:20] <millaa> –
[02:20] <VazsonyiD> ummm
[02:20] <VazsonyiD> what exactly? which ex?
[02:20] <VazsonyiD> –
[02:21] <millaa> the one you told was your only love while you were together with the next woman who was your first poly-relation. dunno if this is clear enough?
[02:21] <millaa> –
[02:23] <millaa> % v said she had posted stuff about how she was feeling after breaking up with you. i’m pretty sure you’ve seen the vids.
[02:24] <VazsonyiD> ok so you mean Réka i presume
[02:24] <VazsonyiD> i dont think she did videos like this
[02:24] <VazsonyiD> or if she did i would like to see them aswell
[02:24] <VazsonyiD> sounds interesting
[02:24] <VazsonyiD> –
[02:24] <millaa> hmm.
[02:24] <VazsonyiD> %who told you this?
[02:25] <millaa> yes i mean reka. and v told me there was stuff like this. in hungarian. so i’m surprised you don’t know.
[02:25] <millaa> whatever. i’m tired. you say you don’t know. so.
[02:26] <millaa> before feb 11th you’ll let me know about tech stuff? yes?
[02:26] <millaa> –
[02:27] <VazsonyiD> ok
[02:27] <VazsonyiD> bye then
[02:27] <VazsonyiD> –
[02:28] <millaa> thanks. i’ve found this conversation supportive.
[02:28] <millaa> bye. take care.
[02:28] <millaa> –

Being fragile. Vigilant. Posting to feel better. Safe in knowing that I’m with my own reality. And I’m not minimizing anything of what has happened. I’m important in my own life. My needs matter. I’m worth love.

Like big sadness there. Frowning forehead. And eyes on the verge of tearing up. So much longing to belong. Have friends. Matter. Okay, tears coming. I don’t want to be alone forever. Meaningless talks about the meaning of things.

[00:36] <millaa> are you okay waiting a while while i post a blog post. it would release some of the stress i feel in relation to us talking and everything that happens inside me (not out in the ‘real’ world, ‘just’ inside me).

[00:37] <millaa> –

[00:37] <VazsonyiD> sure i could eat dinner

[00:37] <millaa> posting some of the feelings and needs i have would ‘make it real’ for me, and give me the validification (or whatever you call it) that i need right now. posting is me taking myself and my needs seriously. so are you okay with waiting for a while?

[00:38] <millaa> % sorry.. long texts take longer to get posted. they come in delayed order… didn’t mean to interrupt your speaking turn.

[12:44] *** millaa [52b5ca16@webchat.xs4all.nl] has joined #another_me
[12:44] *** millaa
[12:48] *** Vazsonyi_D [91ecdb26@webchat.xs4all.nl] has joined #another_me
[12:49] <Vazsonyi_D> hi
[12:49] <millaa> hi. i’m nervous. and a bit scared. dunno what to do about it. how are you?
[12:52] <Vazsonyi_D> well
[12:52] <Vazsonyi_D> im sick
[12:53] <Vazsonyi_D> very low on energy
[12:53] <Vazsonyi_D> hard to feel anything else than mucus inside
[12:53] <Vazsonyi_D> but at least not nervous
[12:53] <Vazsonyi_D> im not sure what is the point of this
[12:54] <Vazsonyi_D> but lets see im fairly open
[12:54] <Vazsonyi_D> how should we do it?
[12:55] <millaa>i would like to use a talking stick ” – ” and the ‘answer, correct things’ sign ” % “. are you okay with that?
[12:56] <Vazsonyi_D> aha
[12:56] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[12:58] <millaa> weird.
[12:58] <millaa> it disappeared..
[12:58] <millaa> i would also like to split the talk into two parts. one where i get to talk about the things that i’ve mentioned before that would make a talk with you more safe for me (agree on a common method, time line, something that makes sense for both).
[12:58] <millaa> anyhow.
[12:58] <millaa> ah.. there it is..
[13:00] <millaa> as i said: two parts. one where i ‘take the lead’ and the other where you talk about whatever is important for (or just present, in) you currently. would you be okay with that?
[13:00] <millaa> –
[13:00] <Vazsonyi_D> sure
[13:00] <Vazsonyi_D> do you want to start?
[13:00] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[13:01] <millaa> i would like to start with deciding a time for how long we will have this chat. is this okay with you? and also i would like for you to start ‘taking the lead’. does this work for you?
[13:01] <millaa> –
[13:02] <Vazsonyi_D> i thought you wanted to talk first
[13:03] <Vazsonyi_D> then me
[13:03] <Vazsonyi_D> this chat?
[13:03] <Vazsonyi_D> mmmm… how long? several hours guessing from 2 years ago
[13:03] <Vazsonyi_D> 5 hours?
[13:03] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[13:04] <millaa> i’m meeting with a person two hours from now. how about an hour and a half?
[13:05] <millaa> i didn’t understand your question “this chat?” could you explain this further?
[13:05] <millaa> –
[13:07] <Vazsonyi_D> i meant how long for this chat
[13:08] <Vazsonyi_D> yes its ok the hour and a half
[13:08] <Vazsonyi_D> i dont have much to say anyways
[13:08] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[13:10] <millaa> so, we are agreeing that this chat will end an hour and half from now? and that you take the lead in the first part? that you lead the conversation for let’s say half an hour? are you okay with all this?
[13:10] <millaa> –
[13:10] <Vazsonyi_D> ummm
[13:10] <Vazsonyi_D> i dont know if i can talk for half an hour
[13:10] <Vazsonyi_D> about what?
[13:10] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[13:11] <millaa> i hear that you are feeling confused? maybe ’empty’? not really sure of what you’re here for? is this correct?
[13:11] <millaa> –
[13:12] <Vazsonyi_D> kinda
[13:12] <Vazsonyi_D> but partly its the sickness
[13:13] <Vazsonyi_D> i dont think i could talk about anything continously and coherently for half an hour now
[13:13] <Vazsonyi_D> but yes i have no idea how to take the lead in a conversation with you
[13:13] <Vazsonyi_D> especially since i understood your request that you set the frames for this talk
[13:14] <Vazsonyi_D> ‘method’, ‘timeline’
[13:14] <Vazsonyi_D> as far as i understood we are talking, cause you randomly texted me while being drunk a few months ago which still confuses me
[13:15] <Vazsonyi_D> and the only topic we could come up with in between is to ‘set the record straight’
[13:15] <Vazsonyi_D> meaning that i hear you out
[13:15] <Vazsonyi_D> give you space
[13:15] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[13:17] <millaa> do you have some questions in relation to what you are feeling puzzled about? about the text message?
[13:17] <millaa> –
[13:20] <Vazsonyi_D> im not sure why you wrote at all
[13:20] <Vazsonyi_D> why i come to your mind
[13:20] <Vazsonyi_D> the part about the hurting i get i think
[13:20] <Vazsonyi_D> but that message said something like ‘what could have been’
[13:21] <Vazsonyi_D> why do you have romantic thoughts about me that i dont get
[13:21] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[13:24] <millaa> you said: “”i understood your request that you set the frames for this talk”. do you understand my request as me deciding by myself how this talk is to be done? you don’t feel you have any say in this?
[13:24] <millaa> –
[13:26] <Vazsonyi_D> yes i do
[13:26] <Vazsonyi_D> i dont want to talk years about this subject
[13:26] <Vazsonyi_D> i dont know how to do it in an organized fashion
[13:26] <Vazsonyi_D> ‘my say’ in it would to minimize the time frame as much as possible
[13:27] <Vazsonyi_D> and to somehow do it in a way that i dont have to spend entire afternoons on reading 15 word pages of text
[13:27] <Vazsonyi_D> other than this
[13:27] <Vazsonyi_D> nothing
[13:27] <Vazsonyi_D> so yes go ahead
[13:27] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[13:28] <millaa> could you put this into postiive wordings? instead of saying what you don’t want, say what you would wish to happen?
[13:28] <millaa> –
[13:31] <Vazsonyi_D> aha
[13:31] <Vazsonyi_D> can you please go ahead with your ideas about how this talk should look like? (time, method)
[13:31] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[13:32] <millaa> well. like you, i would also like to ‘move on’. put this hurt behind, or overcome it somehow.
[13:34] <millaa> i would like to have a clear time frame, and agreement on how the talk is done, in order for me to experience safety and more ease in this.
[13:35] <millaa> i experience shame when speaking of love and being vulnerable in a setting where i continuously get triggered by the unsafety of how to move this talk on.
[13:36] <millaa> so knowing when and how would make this less shameful for me.
[13:38] <millaa> i didn’t like your suggestion on posting many emc examples at the same time, because i’ve had a lot of hurt in doing work (too much effort than i want to put into it) on posting the examples. and then writing from deep inside of situations and behavior that were damaging for me.
[13:39] <millaa> while you can easily avoid exposing yourself or being vulnerable, and you can at any moment choose to step away from the talk. which is a reality i’ve lived with for years now.
[13:40] <millaa>the emc talk is important to me. cause i don’t want to experience the powerlessness i did with you (and that i experience with most people)
[13:40] <millaa> i want to be capable to love in an open, caring and vulnerable way.
[13:42] <millaa> me interacting with you for this talk, will uncover many of my triggers. i can understand myself better. and not turn into a desperate sobbing angry mess.. i want to experience choice in any given situation. not get caught up in my feelings.
[13:42] <millaa> i want to talk about what happened in order to heal.
[13:43] <millaa> and i want to do it in a way so you experience there’s space for you to say whatever is going on inside you.
[13:43] <millaa> i would like for you to be open in this process.
[13:43] <millaa> so. i appreciate what you say.
[13:43] <millaa> “not 15 pages”
[13:44] <millaa> “i’m confused about your motives”
[13:44] <millaa> “not so much time listening to you”
[13:45] <millaa> “i don’t know how to do this in an organized way”
[13:45] <millaa> your time leading the conversation is up.. what did you hear me say?
[13:45] <millaa> –
[13:47] <Vazsonyi_D> my time in leading the conversation?
[13:47] <Vazsonyi_D> did i lead it?
[13:48] <Vazsonyi_D> what i hear is confusing to me
[13:48] <Vazsonyi_D> you say you feel shame and hurt during our talks
[13:48] <Vazsonyi_D> yet you expect it to be healing
[13:48] <Vazsonyi_D> this is highly confusing to me
[13:51] <Vazsonyi_D> you want to learn something about yourself
[13:51] <Vazsonyi_D> this i get
[13:51] <Vazsonyi_D> why am i needed for this?
[13:52] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[13:54] <millaa> about leading the conversation.. well. i just let you start the talk. cause i didn’t want to get into a meta conversation about making a decision about it. i would find it exhausting and frustrating.
[13:54] <millaa> i set the timer on my phone. and it beeped when i made the comment on time.
[13:55] <millaa> sorry about that. that was me living in my universe. not expressing myself clearly.
[13:55] <millaa> about talking with you being healing.
[13:55] <millaa> healing for me is about me changing myself.
[13:56] <millaa> taking responsibility for my actions.
[13:56] <millaa> i’ve behaved many times over in ways i’m not proud of.
[13:56] <millaa> and i’ve done it from an emotional space where i’ve expereinced great powerlessness.
[13:57] <millaa> not experiencing choice. just hurt. sadness. fear. anger.
[13:58] <millaa> from the space most of us have experienced. a place where there is a lot of shame from the knowledge that the people around us are too wrapped up in their own pain to recognize the pain they cause in others.
[13:58] <millaa> i don’t want to take part in yet another ‘hamlet’ or whatever drama. i want to do things differently.
[13:58] <millaa> i don’t want to blame you for being this and that and behaving like this and that.
[13:59] <millaa> i want to find out what it is that is ‘missing’ in me, and how i can fill the space in me that is lacking.
[13:59] <millaa> without expectations on others to care.
[13:59] <millaa> i feel vulnerable in relation to you.
[14:00] <millaa> so that’s a good space for me to start figuring out what i’m lacking.
[14:00] <millaa> like. a concrete example.
[14:01] <millaa> you suggesting a hungarian chat site for us to have this talk.
[14:01] <millaa> i felt exhausted.
[14:01] <millaa> in my mind i was thinking that you only see yourself and your own comfort in interaction with others.
[14:01] <millaa> i was blaming.
[14:01] <millaa> felt triggered. hurt. scared. shame.
[14:02] <millaa> instead of taking responsibility for my feelings and just seeing that what i wish for is active cooperation.
[14:02] <millaa> to know that my needs matter.
[14:02] <millaa> ease.
[14:02] <millaa> i don’t know if this is clear.
[14:04] <millaa> i want to talk with you, because i feel a lot in relation to what you do, don’t do, say, don’t say. and that’s a good place for me to be in order to get over these deeply rooted feelings of shame and not ‘being worth love’.
[14:04] <millaa> does this make it any clearer to you?
[14:04] <millaa> –
[14:06] <Vazsonyi_D> i dont see what is wrong with a hungarian chat site
[14:06] <Vazsonyi_D> all simple chat programmes work in the exact same way you login and you are there
[14:06] <Vazsonyi_D> it was completely random
[14:06] <Vazsonyi_D> you could have suggested a pakistani one i wouldnt have cared
[14:07] <Vazsonyi_D> i dont see how the category of ‘active cooperation’ can apply to selecting a chat program
[14:08] <Vazsonyi_D> so you want to use me as a tool for self-development?
[14:09] <Vazsonyi_D> again contradictions in my head
[14:09] <Vazsonyi_D> how does active cooperation match with me being a tool for your causes
[14:10] <Vazsonyi_D> so somehow i should guess what you lack?
[14:10] <Vazsonyi_D> you want to do this with me, cause you think i know you to some extent?
[14:12] <Vazsonyi_D> i have no idea what to say
[14:12] <Vazsonyi_D> i dont feel a lot about what you do or dont do or say or dont say
[14:12] <Vazsonyi_D> but i guess this is clear
[14:12] <Vazsonyi_D> not sure if it matters
[14:13] <Vazsonyi_D> i dont know how much i have to do with your feelings of shame and worthlessness
[14:13] <Vazsonyi_D> im sad that you feel that way
[14:13] <Vazsonyi_D> this is still very far away from me
[14:13] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[14:14] <millaa> just checking if i understood what you said correctly: you feel blamed cause i don’t know how chat programs work and need clear instructions in order to be able to sign in?
[14:14] <millaa> –
[14:15] <Vazsonyi_D> i feel weird, cause you give deep meaning to something thats completely small
[14:15] <Vazsonyi_D> in my eyes
[14:16] <Vazsonyi_D> im surprised how different things trigger us
[14:16] <Vazsonyi_D> blamed?
[14:17] <Vazsonyi_D> im not sure if this is being blamed what i feel
[14:17] <Vazsonyi_D> i feel like an alien
[14:17] <millaa> % you used the word “wrong” which i guessed indicated feeling blamed.
[14:18] <Vazsonyi_D> its related to you saying you feel hurt, scared and shameful
[14:19] <Vazsonyi_D> about a chat program
[14:19] <Vazsonyi_D> this is something completely beyond
[14:19] <Vazsonyi_D> me
[14:19] <Vazsonyi_D> obviously its something more
[14:19] <Vazsonyi_D> some general state of being
[14:20] <Vazsonyi_D> but it definitely tells me that things are not going to go easy
[14:20] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[14:22] <millaa> as i understand it you experience confusion when i speak of details that trigger memories from our past interaction? you don’t understand how i can feel messed up in relation to emc?
[14:22] <millaa> –
[14:24] <Vazsonyi_D> in relation to EMC yes
[14:25] <Vazsonyi_D> in relation to a chat program no
[14:25] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[14:26] <millaa> i feel a bit sad speaking with you now. since you repeat surprise in the example i brought up, which i one out of many possible examples.
[14:26] <millaa> and maybe there’s anger there as well.
[14:27] <millaa> that you disagree with what i experience as ‘active co-operation’ and the fears i have of disconnection.
[14:28] <millaa> one word that came up before was ‘consideration’
[14:28] <millaa> and ‘awareness’
[14:28] <millaa> consideration for how stressful it is to talk about these things that are still active and alive in me. what i experienced with you and the community you’re involved in.
[14:29] <millaa> and awareness that not everybody knows how a chat program works.
[14:30] <millaa> it’s an hour and half later.
[14:30] <millaa> to answer your question.
[14:30] <millaa> you said: “you want to do this with me, cause you think i know you to some extent?”
[14:31] <millaa> i don’t think you know me. or that i know you.
[14:31] <millaa> i think we have similar patterns in being hurt. and other ways where these patterns are very different.
[14:32] <millaa> i think that if we would know one another, there would be no problems experienced in the communication.
[14:32] <millaa> our miscommunication is ‘proof’ enough that we don’t know one another.
[14:33] <millaa> i wouldn’t mind knowing you. understand.
[14:33] <millaa> i don’t see you as a tool.
[14:33] <millaa> i don’t want to ‘use’ you.
[14:33] <millaa> and i don’t want to ‘read your mind’ or ‘live up to you unspoken expectations’ either.
[14:34] <millaa> i want to be able to be myself fully. and be connected with myself in your presence. in spite of what has happened.
[14:34] <millaa> in spite of what i have done. in spite of what you have done.
[14:35] <millaa> i want to get over ‘romantic illusions’ and just go on living. knowing what heals and aware of what hurts.
[14:35] <millaa> you are not a tool to me.
[14:35] <millaa> you are someone i don’t know.
[14:36] <millaa> i can’t demand that you open up.
[14:36] <millaa> i can’t demand that you would see me for what i am.
[14:36] <millaa> i can’t ‘make’ you anything. and you can’t ‘make’ me anything.
[14:37] <millaa> how come you are taking part in this talk with me? what is your motivation to start talking with me?
[14:37] <millaa> –
[14:38] <Vazsonyi_D> nothing really
[14:38] <Vazsonyi_D> if i can help you get over something its fine
[14:38] <Vazsonyi_D> if i cant then lets stop talking
[14:38] <Vazsonyi_D> sofar im leaning towards the latter
[14:38] <Vazsonyi_D> there are no secrets
[14:38] <Vazsonyi_D> there are no unspoken wants
[14:39] <Vazsonyi_D> you dont have to read my mind
[14:39] <Vazsonyi_D> i dont want to get to know you more than i know you
[14:39] <Vazsonyi_D> sorry for not being aware of you not knowing stuff about chatting
[14:40] <Vazsonyi_D> im glad that you dont see me as a tool
[14:40] <Vazsonyi_D> what is ‘go on living’ for you?
[14:41] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[14:42] <millaa> to be able to stay in the present, in the here and now, and to enjoy it.
[14:42] <millaa> anyhow. the one and a half hour is up.
[14:43] <millaa> i appreciate you expressing that you wish to take part in my healing process. and also that you express that it’s important for you to not be ‘used’.
[14:44] <millaa> i hope you will express yourself throughout in whatever you feel discomfort with.
[14:44] <millaa> and that you will be able to take in what i say in a way that promotes expanded awareness for you instead of feeling ‘under attack’.
[14:44] <millaa> i’m a bit tired. and sad right now.
[14:45] <millaa> i would like to get to something concrete about ‘method’ ‘time line’.
[14:45] <millaa> could we have another talk in a few days. and focus entirely on that? coming up with concrete ideas? would you be okay with that?
[14:45] <millaa> –
[14:46] <Vazsonyi_D> sure
[14:46] <Vazsonyi_D> when?
[14:46] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[14:46] <millaa> or later this evening? i would like to get it done as soon as possible.
[14:46] <millaa> –
[14:47] <Vazsonyi_D> midnight your time?
[14:47] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[14:47] <millaa> ok
[14:47] <millaa> –
[14:49] <Vazsonyi_D> here its ok i guess…
[14:49] <Vazsonyi_D> so see you
[14:49] <Vazsonyi_D> –
[14:49] <millaa> ok. see you later. thanks for having this talk.
[14:49] <millaa> –
[14:50] *** Vazsonyi_D [91ecdb26@webchat.xs4all.nl] has quit [“http://webchat.xs4all.nl “]

There will be a practical course in NVC – nonviolent communication – taking place during one year in Helsinki. Anybody interested in participating for at least 2 of the 4 teacher guided weekend trainings, is welcome to get in touch. The teacher guided trainings will be in february, april, august and november.

Click here to get a brief overview of what the course is about, and who to contact: