UPDATE (12:29 p.m. ET): Multiple sources with knowledge of the talks between Cleveland and Phoenix today are saying as of noontime that a deal actually coming together to team Shaquille O'Neal and LeBron James is very unlikely.

No one is denying that the teams have talked, but we're getting strong hints now that this deal is in no way close.

"At least the Scots didn't have to tune in with the rest of the country and watch their women get plowed by Longshanks and his men."~Commodore Perry on the difference between baseball's flawed economics : Indians :: prima nocta : Scots

I read that was part of the problem; Ferry wanted to move Ben for Shaq, and the Suns want Wally, whose money comes off this season instead of next.

It'd be pretty funny if this were to happen; Shaq and Z spelling each other at Center? Opposing bigs wouldn't have a clue what to do. First they get stretched out to 18 feet away from the bucket by the shooting touch of the lanky Lithuanian, then Shaq's power game inside drives them down like a nail into the hardwood. It'd be funny as hell.

the quote about the deal being unlikely was from the ESPN chat. I haven't heard anything like that from Windy, yet. There's still 2 hours left so take what you hear w/ a grain of salt. Last year we didn't hear about the big trade until after the deadline passed.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

Maybe if this was 2000? Shaq is pretty damn old. There's a reason why he's the Icey-Hot spokes person. I'd rather have Big Ben (the ONLY person worthy of the title IMO.).

Now if it's for Wally and Sasha, then yeah...maybe.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

For the record I don't like the idea of adding Shaq. Cavs need a center who can shoot so they can pull bodies away from the lanes and create openings for Lebron. Shaq can't play away from the basket.

Defensively I think he would have a lot of problems in Mike Brown's system. By not being able to switch off help out against smaller front courts teams can work around him.

On the flip side having him as your starting center and moving Z to the 4 would be pretty 'interesting'. And if it was Wally instead of Ben that could give the Cavs the option to play Shaq and Ben together. The worst foul throw shooting front court in the history of basketball. :)

rk wrote:For the record I don't like the idea of adding Shaq. Cavs need a center who can shoot so they can pull bodies away from the lanes and create openings for Lebron. Shaq can't play away from the basket.

Defensively I think he would have a lot of problems in Mike Brown's system. By not being able to switch off help out against smaller front courts teams can work around him.

On the flip side having him as your starting center and moving Z to the 4 would be pretty 'interesting'. And if it was Wally instead of Ben that could give the Cavs the option to play Shaq and Ben together. The worst foul throw shooting front court in the history of basketball. :)

Yeah, I just read that Z could end up being the second tallest power forward in NBA history, one inch shorter than Ralph Sampson (Hakeem was the 5).

rk wrote:Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

Ben/Sasha, Wally/Sasha, the Easter Bunny/Sasha....I don't give a shit. Just get it done.

If the hang up on this is the Cavs worrying about losing Wally or whatever, then shame on them. If the Suns really countered with Wally/Sasha then it should be a done deal. And I could give a rat's ass if Wally returns or not.

rk wrote:Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

Ben/Sasha, Wally/Sasha, the Easter Bunny/Sasha....I don't give a shit. Just get it done.

If the hang up on this is the Cavs worrying about losing Wally or whatever, then shame on them. If the Suns really countered with Wally/Sasha then it should be a done deal. And I could give a rat's ass if Wally returns or not.

I think the hangup is worrying about getting stuck with both Shaq and Ben's contracts next season and/or not being able to really go out and send Wally somewhere for another player.

rk wrote:Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

Ben/Sasha, Wally/Sasha, the Easter Bunny/Sasha....I don't give a shit. Just get it done.

If the hang up on this is the Cavs worrying about losing Wally or whatever, then shame on them. If the Suns really countered with Wally/Sasha then it should be a done deal. And I could give a rat's ass if Wally returns or not.[/quote]

Agree. Shaq in the playoffs with all the days off would be pret-ty interesting.

The difference btn Wally + Sasha vs. Ben + Sasha is massive. Keeping Ben and trading Wally's expiring contract would save PHO about $13M. but would put Gilbert massively into the luxury tax. This is Ferry being clever, but maybe too clever. That's why Kerr would be happy with Wally inserted. And, didn't we find out with McDyess that Wally couldn't come back for 30 days. Doesn't that put him past the March 1 playoff deadline?

rk wrote:Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

Ben/Sasha, Wally/Sasha, the Easter Bunny/Sasha....I don't give a shit. Just get it done.

If the hang up on this is the Cavs worrying about losing Wally or whatever, then shame on them. If the Suns really countered with Wally/Sasha then it should be a done deal. And I could give a rat's ass if Wally returns or not.

T, I think including Wally f's up TBO's purported wet dream of adding a wing player (VC, RJ) IN ADDITION to Shaqtastic. The Cavs may fear dealing Wally without getting a perimeter player in return is risky given the depth/health of their backcourt. Not saying I wouldn't do it, just saying it's a Ben Wallace type of slam dunk for me right now.

"At least the Scots didn't have to tune in with the rest of the country and watch their women get plowed by Longshanks and his men."~Commodore Perry on the difference between baseball's flawed economics : Indians :: prima nocta : Scots

Pup wrote:Who is guarding Garnett if we trade Ben Wallace for Shaq? Anyone?

Andy can guard jump shooters who have no desire to get to the FT line fairly effectively, no?

"At least the Scots didn't have to tune in with the rest of the country and watch their women get plowed by Longshanks and his men."~Commodore Perry on the difference between baseball's flawed economics : Indians :: prima nocta : Scots

rk wrote:For the record I don't like the idea of adding Shaq. Cavs need a center who can shoot so they can pull bodies away from the lanes and create openings for Lebron. Shaq can't play away from the basket.

Defensively I think he would have a lot of problems in Mike Brown's system. By not being able to switch off help out against smaller front courts teams can work around him.

On the flip side having him as your starting center and moving Z to the 4 would be pretty 'interesting'. And if it was Wally instead of Ben that could give the Cavs the option to play Shaq and Ben together. The worst foul throw shooting front court in the history of basketball. :)

But , assuming we would met the Lakers in the finals, Gasol couldn't just waltz into the blocks against Shaq like he did to us the last time. I think he could push him out farther and not let him get so damn comfortable before abusing us.

Frank Duffy wrote:The difference btn Wally + Sasha vs. Ben + Sasha is massive. Keeping Ben and trading Wally's expiring contract would save PHO about $13M. but would put Gilbert massively into the luxury tax. This is Ferry being clever, but maybe too clever. That's why Kerr would be happy with Wally inserted. And, didn't we find out with McDyess that Wally couldn't come back for 30 days. Doesn't that put him past the March 1 playoff deadline?

The player has to be released by march 1 if I understand the rule correctly it doesn't matter when he is resigned

Getting Shaq and then trading Wally for RJ or VC would, once again, put Gilbert maybe $30-40 into the luxury tax. I know mortgages are now booming, but that's a lot of money, and he'd likely be eviscerated by the other owners. VC and RJ both go into 2010 too, so they'd be pretty much Ferry's last bullet. I like RJ a lot but is he that good?

rk wrote:Right. Windy is reporting Ben and Sasha being offered. ESPN is reporting Suns are countering with Wally and Sasha.

Ben/Sasha, Wally/Sasha, the Easter Bunny/Sasha....I don't give a shit. Just get it done.

If the hang up on this is the Cavs worrying about losing Wally or whatever, then shame on them. If the Suns really countered with Wally/Sasha then it should be a done deal. And I could give a rat's ass if Wally returns or not.

T, I think including Wally f's up TBO's purported wet dream of adding a wing player (VC, RJ) IN ADDITION to Shaqtastic. The Cavs may fear dealing Wally without getting a perimeter player in return is risky given the depth/health of their backcourt. Not saying I wouldn't do it, just saying it's a Ben Wallace type of slam dunk for me right now.

Touche.

Lord, what a coup it would be to get Shaq and maybe a wing player like Carter/Jefferson.

Seriously, if this thing goes down. WAR anyone who puts this as their picture for their article tommorow.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Consigliere wrote:Lord, what a coup it would be to get Shaq and maybe a wing player like Carter/Jefferson.

It'd be the ultimate test of chemistry vs. talent. Shaq and RJ/VC would be an unquestioned talent upgrade over Wally, Ben and Sasha, but Ben has (at his best) established himself as a defensive leader for this team, and Wally's been playing with an insane level of guts for the better part of the season. Not only that, but acquiring RJ/VC would push Delonte out of the starting lineup, and it seems that a big part of his blossoming this season on both ends of the floor is based on the fact that a coach has finally had the confidence in him to play him as a starter and to play him at the 2, which is where he feels most comfortable.

Bringing in names like Shaq and Jefferson or Carter, with those histories, paychecks and egos makes it seem like it might be hard to get all the horses to pull in the same direction. But if they did, the results would be unstoppable.

Hey Tony, I totally agree they need to do something. They have, what, 3 real quality wins this year (Boston, Portland, NO) and have gotten waxed by the good teams. And, Shaq is a real upgrade over Ben, who had a spurt early this year but looks old and tired now (he's only 6'7", any physical decline and he's cooked.) But Shaq for Wally would be a major blow to Gilbert's wallet. And they still have to resign AV at about 8M, if they're lucky. I also agree that I'll be pissed if he out-clevers himself, but the Ben+Sasha offer is pretty brilliant.AK, I did some googling and have seen the March 1 rule both ways. (???)

Lead Pipe wrote:The problem with the deal is what you would call him here; The Big Traffic cone, The Big deficit....

DS has suggested The Big Perogi, LOL.

"At least the Scots didn't have to tune in with the rest of the country and watch their women get plowed by Longshanks and his men."~Commodore Perry on the difference between baseball's flawed economics : Indians :: prima nocta : Scots

Alright, no specifics (must protect source), but the O'Neal offer is still alive but the teams are looking for a 3rd team for salary cap purposes (think Keith Van Horn last year in the Jason Kidd trade).

There is a second big deal being worked out as we speak. My source tells me that the teams are negotiating which picks to include, as the Cavs are reluctant to include two first round picks. Stay tuned, but this one might come down to the wire. Again.

That's from Windy's blog.....Shaq AND possibly a Jamison/Carter/Jefferson?

Guys, that doesn't really sound like Windhorst...I kind of want to be wrong just for the excitement of the deal. Anyone can post in the comments section and I'm sure someone could register the name "Windhorst" and try to scam everyone.

onlyindreams wrote:Guys, that doesn't really sound like Windhorst...I kind of want to be wrong just for the excitement of the deal. Anyone can post in the comments section and I'm sure someone could register the name "Windhorst" and try to scam everyone.

It's not.

Folks:We just talked with Brian, and this commenter is NOT Brian Windhorst. So anything you see posted by "Windhorst" is not from the PD beat writer. Carry on.