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So back to the topic. How do you feel about praying in t his man made structure which wants so much money... It's for the good of the man we can't see... Or is it real? Anyway trying to get it started and no hacker ADD going on.

Prayer in a man made structure does not bother me. The structure is just a place for people to gather. It could just as easily be done in someone’s backyard or living room.

At one time, when praying to God was shunned upon, people would meet in each other’s houses. The church is a physical building, but when groups of people who all share the same religion meet, another building is created. It is not physical, it spiritual in nature, it is what they share in there hearts as they speak to there god.

Money! They need a lot of it. If you have ever sat in a church annual meeting you know that it is costly. It is one of the few institutions that does not require an entrance fee or charge you for something. Consequently they are always asking for money.

I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom.--General George S. Patton

Disgruntled you are right on this topic, religion and spirituality are great on a personal level. But they should be kept private because they aren't needed in the public world. Also group religon can be damaging, just look at the mormons.

p.s. just kidding about mormons

"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies." -Karl Marx

yeah, everyone can believe in whatever religion they so choose. that's fine with me. but i agree that it should be on a personal level. the thing i don't like is people trying to push their beliefs on me. that takes their religion from a personal experience to a public one. which i don't think is right. if you really had that much faith in your god and religion, you wouldn't feel the need to push it on everyone. you wouldn't feel threatened by those who do not believe. sorry, but i think most of the people that really push their religions on you and try to convert you are afraid of you. they are afraid to have someone else disagree. they must think that it takes away some credibility to their religion if everyone else hasn't bought into it.

sorry.. just thinking of my God freak of a sister that is always trying to convert me.

at any rate.. religion is a such a personal issue. i don't see how people could publicly share it so easily.

"when you look around, you can't tell me honestly you're happy with what you see"

I wonder how many people would stop celebrating birthdays if they found out where the Cake & Candles part comes from. Surprise it's a Pagan tradition. In ancient Greece ppl would make a cake and, then they placed candles on it. This was then taken into the sacred temple of one of the goddesses. While under the gaze of their goddess, they would attempt to blow out all of the candles in a single breath. If they were successful, they would have a bountiful year ahead.

I think religion should be kept on a personal level as well but I don't think it is wrong to share your beliefs with others if it is not offending to them. But I do not think it is right to force your beliefs on to others

I also agree with you blackhole, I see nothing wrong with sharing your beliefs with others, but if I were to use physical or legal force to make others listen; then I am a narrow minded religionist. As far as brainwashing goes, it's not always an up in your face kind of thing. Some brainwashing techniques are very subtle. Your not suppost to know it's even happened to you.

The problem with finding the "Truth" as you put it Susejsevil613, is that we have far to many people in this world; who believe that their version of the truth is the one and only truth. In their small narrowminded view of how things are supposed to be there is no room for anyone elses version of the truth. These same people are so fanatical about their "Truth", that they will go to great lengths to wipe out any doctrines that conflict with there own. I even heard that some of the churches in america are threatening to punish senators who are of their faith with excommunication, if they sign any bills into law that go against church doctrines. So much for their free will huh?

History has and will always have a problem with "Truth" as I put it. As for the church, am I sorry.I guess the point I want to make is - think outside religion, narrow minded, etc... Maybe some of us are a little frustrated that we aren't so zealous as some people are about what they truly believe in. I believe it is in our nature to discover, to believe, to be radical, to connect. ?

I don't know what other people believe when it comes to GOD and religion. I personally believe in GOD, but not organized religion, because there is too many inconsistencies in the bible, and too much hypocrisy in the churches. But hey, that's just what I believe. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, as long as that belief is not forced on others, or that belief causes harm to any living thing on this planet. Even though I believe in GOD, I try not to become to zealous. I try to be flexible,so that I can incorporate new ideas into my belief system. I wish alot of people could be openminded when it comes to religon, if they did they might learn somthing new and wonderful. For a large part of humanity this sadly will never happen. They will never know the joy of looking outside their little box, and seeing the larger world and universe around them.

I personally have done a lot of research and thinking on the subject. As I believe people need to. I think the saddest thing people do is waive their right to ask 'Why?'

You learn so much by just asking why, but in religion people tend not to question. Just accept, but I do also believe people need to keep their religion to themselves, and to others that believe the same as them.

Forcing ones beliefs on another person, or criticizing ones beliefs just because they are different from yours is the biggest thing that is wrong with the world today. If people would just accept others beliefs. There would not be have the war/conflicts that have happened in history.

I get so tired of hearing people say 'YOU'RE GOING TO HELL'. What a outright display of ignorance that is, one that infuriates me to no end! Ok, I'm starting on my own rant so I'll end it here, sorry for the rambling.

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-Albert Einstein

If someone goes up to you and says "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!", might I suggest that they are 'bad-ass' teenagers trying to diss on you? The Christian belief says that that is possibly the stupidest thing someone can do. On the topic of forcing religions on people, consider Muslims. The Q'Ran actually says to kill anyone who leaves their religion, and to force it on everyone.

I agree people can think whatever the fuck they want etc. But most people have the purpose of religion mixed up anyway, in my opinion. I see it as a way of living life, making decisions, treating others, and what have you. That's why it is so personal, one mindset isn't going to work for everyone. You have to figure yourself out, decide what works for you. That's why there are so many people who go to church, pretend to love Jesus, then go out getting fucked up/breakin the law/whatever, and tell other people that they are going to hell for not being Christian. Why? Because they aren't really Christian, and those beliefs don't work for them and so they don't really follow them.BTW, "Quran" can be spelled any fucking way you want cause it's just a translation from Arabic. And Red Mage, you shouldn't pretend to be a non-zealot Christian and then go on and talk shit about Muslims, unless you have read the Quran and done research, discussed the religion with an imam, etc.