Sorry if this has already been posted (I know there's a Carey thread, and I read that -- I couldn't find anything about this specifically).

What I found really surreal about last Sunday's game was this:

1. RW throws to Edwards for a TD, as signaled by the official. The play was close -- no doubt -- and could easily have been called either way (and I wouldn't have a problem with it).2. As with all scoring plays, the score is reviewed. (I don't recall if FOX went to a commercial or not.)3. FOX gets good ol' Baghdad Mike on the line, and he mutters something about that it should be overturned, due to something about the nose of the football.4. About 15 seconds later, Carey comes out and overturns the call, muttering something about the nose of the football.

What struck me as surreal was that the language used by Carey almost exactly mimicked the language used by Pereira. Maybe I'm misremembering. It's entirely possible. Anyone with a DVR may be able to contradict my version of events.

How does Pereira come off as so confident? Does he have access to all the angles the replay officials have? If so, how? Does he have some sort of dedicated internet feed provided by FOX? Given that Pereira is no longer an NFL employee, is that appropriate?

It almost seemed scripted. It almost seemed as though one of two things happened:

1. Carey's crew had no idea whether or not they should overturn the call, so FOX calls out to Baghdad Mike, and he makes the call. Carey simply follows the party line.

2. Carey's crew had no idea what the 'correct' call was -- so again, the call goes out to Baghdad Mike, who makes the 'correct' call, and again, Carey just follows the party line.

I know, I know, tinfoil. But that game was really surreal in so many ways, and that might have been the worst. At the end of the game (on Rice's TD), they once again brought in Baghdad Mike, and I was quaking in my boots, thinking that Pereira would offer up some nugget of (dis)information to be parroted by the officiating crew. Fortunately, it seemed as though that TD was too hard to overcome.

therealjohncarlson wrote:But the nose of the football did touch the ground... so what was your point again?

OK, so I forgot to mention that possibility. The possibility that Pereira and Carey saw exactly the same thing. Something that wasn't made available to those of us watching on TV. Fair enough.

Still, it creeps me out every time FOX brings in Pereira. I just feel like there's something going on that I'm not privy to. And again, Pereira always comes across as so damn certain about his opinions -- and that bothers me too. My life has taught me that certainty is rarely easy. I guess you could say that's why FOX is paying him, but I would feel better if he would at least occasionally say "well, this is a tough call, and I can see it going either way" -- because in fact, that's the truth IMO.

I don't really fault him for overturning it. To be perfectly honest when watching it live I WAS CONVINCED it 1-hopped into Edwards hands. When they signaled the TD I was happy but though, this can't really be a catch can it? But when they showed the replay incredibly he had his hands under the ball.

So then I think, ok it probably was a catch. The only real issue to me was that when the ball hit the ground it moved a bit. the ball can hit the ground but it must be possessed. Often when a ball moves as it hits the ground it's rules that the WR didn't have possession and it is incomplete. So on that I can see how it went that way.

But it was very close and I don't know if there was signifcant enough evidence to overturn so I thought the play would stand as called.

I want to punch Perriera's fat face over and over again. I really really hate that guy. His name annoys me, his face irritates the crap out of me, his voice pisses me off and his opinions aggravate me even more. I hate every single thing about that guy.

therealjohncarlson wrote:But the nose of the football did touch the ground... so what was your point again?

OK, so I forgot to mention that possibility. The possibility that Pereira and Carey saw exactly the same thing. Something that wasn't made available to those of us watching on TV. Fair enough.

Still, it creeps me out every time FOX brings in Pereira. I just feel like there's something going on that I'm not privy to. And again, Pereira always comes across as so damn certain about his opinions -- and that bothers me too. My life has taught me that certainty is rarely easy. I guess you could say that's why FOX is paying him, but I would feel better if he would at least occasionally say "well, this is a tough call, and I can see it going either way" -- because in fact, that's the truth IMO.

You do know what Pereira used to do don't you?

That might explain how he is so certain sounding. Afterall it was him that said our SB penalty had "all the elements" of holding.

Why would they even have Pereira on pontificating BEFORE a ruling is made. Seems odd and contradictory to the NFL's style.... Has he EVER gone against an official's ruling?? I haven't seen it. In fact he generally only opines after the fact IIRC.

FWIW, the officials get the same camera angles that is supplied by the broadcaster, which is what we see also. They don't get some special camera angle feed.

EDIT:

Just wanted to add. A few years ago, official replay booth finally upgraded to HD. Now, when they were watching a SD feed, that was an uncompressed SD feed, which is pretty close to what we see in HD at home. They now get to see uncompressed HD feeds, which is 10x better than what we see.

To put it in math terms: What we see at home, at best, is ~18Mbps. They get to see uncompressed, which is ~3Gbps. It really does make a difference.

Last edited by taz291819 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The call that interests me is the Bears TD call here I believe Kam flipped the guy in the air and he(and the ball) landed on the 1/2 yard line. I NEVER SAW THE SAME CAMERA ANGLE after that. The angles they showed were never from the side like the game view. The replays were from the front or back and never showed the realtime view as I (we) saw. Or did I miss it?

Also....Marshawns fumble was absolute BS. Can they call forward motion stopped on review? It was completely obvious he was stopped when he was laid-out and THEN the ball came out. Didn't mean to hijack the thread....just wanted to get my frustration out....I feel better now.

samwize77 wrote:The call that interests me is the Bears TD call here I believe Kam flipped the guy in the air and he(and the ball) landed on the 1/2 yard line. I NEVER SAW THE SAME CAMERA ANGLE after that. The angles they showed were never from the side like the game view. The replays were from the front or back and never showed the realtime view as I (we) saw. Or did I miss it?

Also....Marshawns fumble was absolute BS. Can they call forward motion stopped on review? It was completely obvious he was stopped when he was laid-out and THEN the ball came out. Didn't mean to hijack the thread....just wanted to get my frustration out....I feel better now.

I thought the first TD by Chicago was pretty damn close, but I understood them not turning it over. I was surprised when they didn't have the same leniency on the Braylon non-TD.

No, they cannot challenge forward progress (either for or against) in replays. Whatever they call on the field, is how it stands.

cboom wrote:Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.

jamsomatic wrote:Why would they even have Pereira on pontificating BEFORE a ruling is made. Seems odd and contradictory to the NFL's style.... Has he EVER gone against an official's ruling?? I haven't seen it. In fact he generally only opines after the fact IIRC.

jamsomatic wrote:Why would they even have Pereira on pontificating BEFORE a ruling is made. Seems odd and contradictory to the NFL's style.... Has he EVER gone against an official's ruling?? I haven't seen it. In fact he generally only opines after the fact IIRC.

I hate him.

His premature rulings also bother me. I agree with the OP that the ref's need help making calls and Pee-area (I know, childish) is the go to guy... I must need my tinfoil as well, but I really feel that his opinions could be wired in to the booth for those baffoons. Either way, even if he is just making rulings for the at home audience, he is an egotistical prick.

Bad calls should never be accepted at face value, and ESPECIALLY when Pieholereia is spewing his bullshit.In spite of the Pro Football players that commented on the XL debacle (also explaining bad calls with dimwited crap)

We also won that game, so that's why I have a problem chilling out, because of corrupt Officiating, I reserve the right to suspect these guys for continueing to ignore proffessionalism with doing their jobs, and a phoney mouthpiece that continues to explain their mistakes away.That Ref that threw up his hands indicating the TD,,,The review?,,Absolutely indisputible, and doesn't get overturned.It would have been a TD for either of the Manning brothers, Tom Terrific Brady, Arron Rodgers, or even the much heralded Andrew Luck, but it's obvious that one size doesn't fit all

samwize77 wrote:The call that interests me is the Bears TD call here I believe Kam flipped the guy in the air and he(and the ball) landed on the 1/2 yard line. I NEVER SAW THE SAME CAMERA ANGLE after that. The angles they showed were never from the side like the game view. The replays were from the front or back and never showed the realtime view as I (we) saw. Or did I miss it?

I've noticed A LOT this year, on close plays, that the camera angles they show for replays are suspiciously bad. (not just in Seahawks games, btw)

1. Many, many, "did the ball cross the plane" plays where the good angle, sometimes just the regular broadcast angle, just wasn't shown again after it occurred live. 2. Field Goals: There have been a few FGs this season that were questionably called good or not by refs where they had ZERO good angles shown on replays. On this... EXTEND THE EFFING UPRIGHTS ALREADY. Telescope the uprights when the net gets raised before field goals... too many unclear FGs as the kickers have been getting stronger legs. Doesn't anyone find it weird that there used to be a camera angle that looked straight up from the goal posts and now there isn't?3. The Tate-Gate play... they only showed bad angles on that play. Hell, I don't even think it was a TD, but I know better angles existed (and came out later).

4. Kind of related: How is a slab of plastic (first down marker), and chains, better for measuring first downs than a computerized, perfectly straight yellow line? The "unofficial" yellow line should be official, already.

------

5: GRAND CONSPIRACY re: replacement refs

Remember during the whole Tate debacle, how it was occasionally mentioned how the "Replay Official" wasn't a replacement ref? If that's true, the Replay Officials, were probably pals and in support of the regular refs. There were a few game-altering calls in the first few weeks of the season, in various games, that I thought were called obviously wrong on the field. These were reviewed (by coaches or automatically), and upheld. My grand conspiracy here is that the replay officials were intentionally upholding bad calls by replacement refs, on game-deciding plays, in order to ignite a furor that would get the old refs back to work. One example would be a game-deciding field goal in a Patriots game. Another would be the Tate play. We deserved to win that game, in my opinion, but I think the last call was botched (one ref calling TD and one saying incomplete on the field... really?) and then upheld by a replay official who had the perfect opportunity to get those guys fired.

strohmin wrote:I want to punch Perriera's fat face over and over again. I really really hate that guy. His name annoys me, his face irritates the crap out of me, his voice pisses me off and his opinions aggravate me even more. I hate every single thing about that guy.

This thread is surreal...For my own morbid curiosity... do fans of this team truly believe the NFL and the referees (whom they just ended a nasty work dispute with) are actively conspiring against the Seattle Seahawks? And that a broadcaster may have a secret microphone to his former cronies to help them screw over a team?

Can someone post a poll?

or is it that the NFL officials have a hard time keeping up with 22 really big, strong and fast men running around and crashing into each other. They absolutely need to be better. They more than likely error on the side of caution, and probably lean towards the team supported by 60,000 screaming people. They probably start assuming our DBs are committing penalties because they are brash and physical. Some of them, including Carey and Pierror probably have feelings against and for certain teams. Its impossible to ask them to ignore these things.

But I have a hard time believing they are out to get one team.... and that team is the Seattle Seahawks.

we've had some calls go our way this season, and not just the obvious Tate call. Its part of the NFL.

Whats truly disturbing is fans excessive anger towards making it "perfect".. and not just the refs, the players as well. Its not X-box... its entertainment, a game played at exceedingly high speeds by human beings.

If...IF they wanted to take the game from the Seahawks, wouldn't they have used a two headed coin or something... some sort of mirrors that refracted sunlight into RWs eyes on the final drive. Maybe a sniper?

I just dont see it.... and I will probably be proven wrong in a year or so when someone finds a secret manifest outlining the slow and steady destruction of the city of Seattle by demoralizing its sports fans over an extended period of time causing the city to attempt secession and thus put under marshal law... and just because it had to be some city so why not Seattle?

How many times does it need to be said? On the Tate play, one official called TD, the other was NOT signaling no TD, he was signaling time expired. THIS misconception is a lot of why people are failing to look beyond the bad angles shown on TV and the media. Again, one official said TD, the other said game over. End of story.

Uncle Si wrote:This thread is surreal...For my own morbid curiosity... do fans of this team truly believe the NFL and the referees (whom they just ended a nasty work dispute with) are actively conspiring against the Seattle Seahawks? And that a broadcaster may have a secret microphone to his former cronies to help them screw over a team?

No, I don't believe that. My point was only that many calls in that game -- including the one I singled out -- really did seem surreal to me.

I've watched a lot of NFL games, and yeah, the home team sometimes seems to get the home cooking. The Seahawks do get it as well -- including a few times this year.

But some games (and not just Seahawk games) do end up having a surreal feeling to them -- where seemingly EVERY good play on O or D by one team is simply going to come back. Watching the game, you just know it. SB XL was one of those games, and this game was one of the few I've seen since then that had that same feeling for me.

I would point out that PC rarely says much about the officiating -- but in his post-game presser, he said, regarding the final Rice TD, "I was only nervous because every call went the other way today".

Finally, I used to think I hated the stupid FOX robot mascot. Now? Please, put in the robot mascot instead of Pereira.

I'm not about to join the tinfoil hat brigade. I don't even remotely think there's a chance that Mike Pierra is piped into the replay booth, but I DO think that the idea of having referees review their own calls is a bit silly. These guys are all ego; like Hochuli and his muscles or Mike Carey and his stupid mustache. Do you think they enjoy standing in front of a giant stadium and saying "HEY EVERYONE! I TOTALLY SCREWED UP THAT CALL BECAUSE I'M A FRICKEN MORON!"? It's like grading your own paper, they totally have a vested interest in the call.

I think A) they need to get some refs with smaller egos who don't want to make themselves the star of the show and B) start having a designated crew of replay officials who can overturn any call at any time. Like Big Brother or the Internal Affairs dept.

This poster officially refuses to recognize SacHawk2.0 as a moderator or authority figure of any description.

CANHawk wrote:I'm not about to join the tinfoil hat brigade. I don't even remotely think there's a chance that Mike Pierra is piped into the replay booth, but I DO think that the idea of having referees review their own calls is a bit silly. These guys are all ego; like Hochuli and his muscles or Mike Carey and his stupid mustache. Do you think they enjoy standing in front of a giant stadium and saying "HEY EVERYONE! I TOTALLY SCREWED UP THAT CALL BECAUSE I'M A FRICKEN MORON!"? It's like grading your own paper, they totally have a vested interest in the call.

I think A) they need to get some refs with smaller egos who don't want to make themselves the star of the show and B) start having a designated crew of replay officials who can overturn any call at any time. Like Big Brother or the Internal Affairs dept.

Great solutions, really! These guys' egos are the main reason why I liked the replacement guys... There should be no reason to know that "Mike Carey is the lead official today." or "The Great Ed Hochuli is the head referee today." Just be the referee and call the game. It's not about you!!!

CANHawk wrote:I'm not about to join the tinfoil hat brigade. I don't even remotely think there's a chance that Mike Pierra is piped into the replay booth, but I DO think that the idea of having referees review their own calls is a bit silly. These guys are all ego; like Hochuli and his muscles or Mike Carey and his stupid mustache. Do you think they enjoy standing in front of a giant stadium and saying "HEY EVERYONE! I TOTALLY SCREWED UP THAT CALL BECAUSE I'M A FRICKEN MORON!"? It's like grading your own paper, they totally have a vested interest in the call.

I think A) they need to get some refs with smaller egos who don't want to make themselves the star of the show and B) start having a designated crew of replay officials who can overturn any call at any time. Like Big Brother or the Internal Affairs dept.

Agree 100%. College replay is booth generated. I want to see the same in the NFL (with the caveat that these guys actually have good eyesight).

And I agree with Uncle Si on the home team thing. I think home teams get more close calls their way because the refs don't want to piss off 60,000+ people. It's probably even a subconcious thing.

One thing I do know though, the officiating in the NFL is and has been for a long time ABYSMAL and if Rozelle, Tags and now Rog REALLY wanted to do something about it, they would (have). The reason they haven't/don't is the reason things always don't get done by any large corporation....it might cost a few bucks. God forbid we'd cut our insane profit level by one tenth of one percent (or whatever the actual number would be.....it wouldn't be a large one, that much I do know).

Pereira is by far a turbo-douche and frankly I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he and Carey share a toothbrush, but I could see that one being overturned. I do admit though, the way Pereira talks, concerns me in some way. On the last score, the Hawks scored, period. Possession, goal line, play over. JUST LIKE IN THE GB CATCH. With this one, he came back and said "what you must do, is prove that the ball carrier was going down on his own and blah blah blah"

Why must they do anything Mike the Meat Monitor? Why not just check the play and not MUST prove the Hawks won?

The only concern I have and I mean only is that Bevell will get cute and pass even though Lynch is gaining yardage. 1/30/2015 - loaf

jamsomatic wrote:Why would they even have Pereira on pontificating BEFORE a ruling is made. Seems odd and contradictory to the NFL's style.... Has he EVER gone against an official's ruling?? I haven't seen it. In fact he generally only opines after the fact IIRC.

I hate him.

Yes he had gone against an officials ruling. Many games during replacement refs and I recall last year with regular refs

taz291819 wrote:FWIW, the officials get the same camera angles that is supplied by the broadcaster, which is what we see also. They don't get some special camera angle feed.

EDIT:

Just wanted to add. A few years ago, official replay booth finally upgraded to HD. Now, when they were watching a SD feed, that was an uncompressed SD feed, which is pretty close to what we see in HD at home. They now get to see uncompressed HD feeds, which is 10x better than what we see.

To put it in math terms: What we see at home, at best, is ~18Mbps. They get to see uncompressed, which is ~3Gbps. It really does make a difference.

Excellent point - was not aware that they are getting uncompressed but should have known. Article about the install below that I went and found

I understand the OP wondering about the Pereira connection. It seems in every game he's called upon his opinion is always an exact replica of the replay official's eventual conclusion. You'd think that at least once he and the replay official would differ.

Super joke XL has forever opened a doubt about the credibility of a league that I thought was beyond reproach.

CANHawk wrote:I'm not about to join the tinfoil hat brigade. I don't even remotely think there's a chance that Mike Pierra is piped into the replay booth, but I DO think that the idea of having referees review their own calls is a bit silly. These guys are all ego; like Hochuli and his muscles or Mike Carey and his stupid mustache. Do you think they enjoy standing in front of a giant stadium and saying "HEY EVERYONE! I TOTALLY SCREWED UP THAT CALL BECAUSE I'M A FRICKEN MORON!"? It's like grading your own paper, they totally have a vested interest in the call.

I think A) they need to get some refs with smaller egos who don't want to make themselves the star of the show and B) start having a designated crew of replay officials who can overturn any call at any time. Like Big Brother or the Internal Affairs dept.

Uncle Si wrote:This thread is surreal...For my own morbid curiosity... do fans of this team truly believe the NFL and the referees (whom they just ended a nasty work dispute with) are actively conspiring against the Seattle Seahawks? And that a broadcaster may have a secret microphone to his former cronies to help them screw over a team?

Can someone post a poll?

or is it that the NFL officials have a hard time keeping up with 22 really big, strong and fast men running around and crashing into each other. They absolutely need to be better. They more than likely error on the side of caution, and probably lean towards the team supported by 60,000 screaming people. They probably start assuming our DBs are committing penalties because they are brash and physical. Some of them, including Carey and Pierror probably have feelings against and for certain teams. Its impossible to ask them to ignore these things.

But I have a hard time believing they are out to get one team.... and that team is the Seattle Seahawks.

we've had some calls go our way this season, and not just the obvious Tate call. Its part of the NFL.

Whats truly disturbing is fans excessive anger towards making it "perfect".. and not just the refs, the players as well. Its not X-box... its entertainment, a game played at exceedingly high speeds by human beings.

If...IF they wanted to take the game from the Seahawks, wouldn't they have used a two headed coin or something... some sort of mirrors that refracted sunlight into RWs eyes on the final drive. Maybe a sniper?

I just dont see it.... and I will probably be proven wrong in a year or so when someone finds a secret manifest outlining the slow and steady destruction of the city of Seattle by demoralizing its sports fans over an extended period of time causing the city to attempt secession and thus put under marshal law... and just because it had to be some city so why not Seattle?

No matter how you slice it UNC, XL was called by bias Officiating, that too many non Seahawk fans commented on ( like Troy Aikman for one), hell, there was even a Steelers fan that stated that he wanted the win by his team, and added "But Not Like This"

I thought it was ridiculous when Pereira says on the Edwards call that he believed it wasn't a td, which was clearly giving his opinion against the Seahawks. Then on the game winning Rice td, wouldn't even acknowledge the touchdown. He was on the air trying to figure out ways it "might" not be a touchdown. It was like he didn't even want to give his opinion at all that time. I can't remember his exact words though. Does anyone else remember this? I was thinking wow, this guy is consistent at least with his bias lol.

CANHawk wrote:I'm not about to join the tinfoil hat brigade. I don't even remotely think there's a chance that Mike Pierra is piped into the replay booth, but I DO think that the idea of having referees review their own calls is a bit silly. These guys are all ego; like Hochuli and his muscles or Mike Carey and his stupid mustache. Do you think they enjoy standing in front of a giant stadium and saying "HEY EVERYONE! I TOTALLY SCREWED UP THAT CALL BECAUSE I'M A FRICKEN MORON!"? It's like grading your own paper, they totally have a vested interest in the call.

I think A) they need to get some refs with smaller egos who don't want to make themselves the star of the show and B) start having a designated crew of replay officials who can overturn any call at any time. Like Big Brother or the Internal Affairs dept.

Scoring plays are reviewed upstairs which didn't turn out so great

Next

Of course, which is why mustache mike was under the hood and made the call after Edwards and Rice TD's....

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