Where the Nurses are Pretty and the Doctors are Pissed

The debate about circumcision still rages though the tide is turning and fewer baby boys are now being “snipped”. The following extract from an article by Fleiss and Hodges is one of the most informative I’ve read. I’d be interested to hear what gimcrack readers think of it

The foreskin is more than just skin; it is a complex, highly mobile, and beautifully engineered organ composed of an intricate web of blood vessels, muscle, and nerves. In fact, the foreskin contains about 240 feet of nerve fibers and tens of thousands of specialized erotogenic nerve endings of various types.

The akroposthion is the name that the ancient Greeks gave to the tubular, tapered “neck” of the foreskin that extends beyond the glans.

If the average adult foreskin were unfolded and laid flat and unstretched, it would be approximately the size of a 3 x 5 index card. Moderately stretched, it would entirely cover a man’s forehead or the back of his hand and fingers.

just behind the lips of the foreskin is the ridged mucosa. the movement of the akroposthion during erection and sexual play cause the pleats of the ridged mucosa to expand and contract like the bellows of an accordion

I think a lot of us are looking for an erect penis, with or without a foreskin. Having worked in Labor and Delivery in the days when they cut them off without thinking, or sometimes asking Mom, I thought it was brutal and unnecessary then, and haven’t changed my mind. Although I won’t hold your parent’s decision against you.

Yea, I’ve heard that argument but I’m GLAD mine was snipped. First of all, you can’t miss what you never had. Second, there are all those hygiene issues you have to deal with. I prefer not to be cheesy!

Unbearable Banishment: I don’t know if you clicked the link and read the article but I found this excerpt about the hygiene issues interesting too…..

“Smegma is probably the most misunderstood, most unjustifiably maligned substance in nature. Smegma is clean rather than dirty. It is beneficial and necessary. It moisturizes the glans and keeps it smooth, soft, and supple. Its antibacterial and antiviral properties keep the penis clean and healthy. All normal male and female mammals produce smegma”

It made a certain sense in Victorian times when nobody bathed and the medical establishment thought sexual enjoyment led to criminal insanity. Rational people don’t think that anymore so I don’t see any good reason to go carving up our children’s genitalia when they’re too young to make medical decisions.

A mohel (rabbi who performs the ritual of bris, circumcision) for some reason gets the idea to preserve all the foreskins he has removed in his career. One day he takes them to a leather worker and asks what can be made from them. The leather worker is intrigued and says he’ll see what he can do. A week later the mohel comes back and the artisan presents him with a modest wallet.

“That’s all?” says the mohel. “Forty years of foreskins and there is only enough for a wallet?”

Hahaha…Alex is a pearl necklace. That’s a sticky situation, Alex! Need a tissue?

I think the foreskin should be left on, and the individual should be allowed to make a decision on whether to have it removed when they are old enough to make that decision. I’m sure most men would decide not to have it removed.

“Smegma is probably the most misunderstood, most unjustifiably maligned substance in nature. Smegma is clean rather than dirty. It is beneficial and necessary. It moisturizes the glans and keeps it smooth, soft, and supple. Its antibacterial and antiviral properties keep the penis clean and healthy. All normal male and female mammals produce smegma”

Ummm… so is snot (beneficial) but we don’t get all worked up when someone suggests it’s kinda icky. So like… I’m squarely in the category that just as I don’t want to be kissing someone with snot all over their face, I don’t want to be doing a whole lot with anyone who has smegma all over their penis.

renalfailure: “If I had another 240 feet’s worth I don’t think I’d ever leave the house.” Yet the three-quarters of the world’s men who still have those 240 get out quite often. Just as you don’t miss what you never had, you don’t lose all control with what you’ve always had. It’s not that the standard 240 feet of nerves make it more sensitive. They make it /better/ sensitive. The difference has been compared to colour vs black-and-white.

And smegma? Nothing like snot, much more like earwax – and the female variety is more pungent and copious.

As far as I know the only reason grown men commonly have it off is phimosis, when it’s too tightly attached and painful to skin back. Though I would think a more conservative release of the frenulum is possible. The military used to do this on a dime so I’m told and the big issue was keeping the guys away from Playboy and the like while they were recovering so as not to strain the stitches. Ow. Sounds like the Army.

No. Many adults enjoy the comfort and security of a glans that is covered most or all of the time-even during erection. At this stage of life, the foreskin almost always has fully separated from the head. Full retraction is sometimes avoided if the lips of the foreskin (the preputial orifice) resist stretching wide enough to permit the passage of the glans. There is nothing wrong with this, even though many old-fashioned textbooks and many uninformed doctors (most of whom are circumcised) think that this is a problem called “phimosis.”

“Contrary to medical myth, a narrow preputial orifice does not make hygiene difficult. On the contrary: Important studies have found that the penis with a narrow foreskin opening is perfectly clean. Urination through the foreskin actually helps keep the penis clean and fresh. It is a beautifully designed system that functions with perfect efficiency.”

“Smegma is a natural lubricant made up of a number of bodily secretions that allows smooth movement between the foreskin and the head of the penis (glans) during sexual intercourse. However, if it is allowed to accumulate in the foreskin it can start to smell, prevent easy foreskin movement, and become a breeding ground for bacteria. This can cause an infection of the head of your penis, called balanitis.”

So…

“Balanitis is an inflammation of the glans penis. In balanoposthitis, the glans (tip) of the penis becomes irritated and inflamed as a result of bacterial or fungal infection, irritation from chemicals in clothing, or an unknown cause.”

“In men who have been circumcised, such inflammations are less common and limited to the glans penis.”

“In almost every instance balanitis results from the presence of a foreskin, which may be redundant and phimotic, thereby predisposing to infections.”

Treatment?

“Since anaerobic conditions are necessary for growth of the offending organisms, simple exposure to air and local cleansing is most often effective. Formerly, this treatment, used with peroxide powder and arsphenamine and, in severe cases, a dorsal slit, was the extent of therapy. With the advent of penicillin and other systemic and local antibiotics, the treatment is specific and effective; however, even now a dorsal slit procedure is sometimes necessary.”

I’m a mother. I’ve had two boys. I can tell you that around the ages of about 10 to 13, it’s like pulling their fraccing teeth to get them to be concerned about their hygiene… even simple things as brushing their dang teeth or washing their hair often enough. It’s not like they’re going to let their mom in the shower to make sure they’re cleaning their dick properly. Sheesh.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves. No one circumcizes their child because they want to be mean. (Aside from those who do so for religous reasons which I cannot comment on because I am not of that persuasion) they do it because they want to prevent their child going through the trauma of infections and a possible circumcision at an older age. I’ve seen that. I cared for the kid. He was 3. It was fraccing torture for him by that age.

And yes. Snot. My comparison was that they are both beneficial (to a certain extent). You didn’t prove that to be incorrect and my point was, snot is necessary but I don’t want to eat it. Smegma has a purpose, but I don’t want to be eating it either.

Others have more to say about Phimosis too. The following are some stories from actual people who have also provided their photographs to support circumcision.

I’ve argued this issue extensively, and mainly because of what I’ve seen. I’ve seen what anti-circ’s say doesn’t happen. It does. It’s not pretty. That 3 year old? I was his regular babysitter when I was 15. It broke my heart to watch him go through that. He suffered.

Did you read the bit from the chap who spoke of how hard it is for some men to keep theirs properly clean? It’s become so politically correct to not circ baby boys, that it’s no longer a procedure covered under our socialized healthcare here. So… for those who can’t afford it, the politically correct anti-circ’s ensure that some of them will in fact, suffer like the 3 year old simply because the parents couldn’t afford the added cost. We pay to kill unborn babies but we won’t pay to circ a penis so a 3 year old doesn’t have to suffer.

Ridiculous.

I agree with you that socialized healthcare should cover such an operation under those circumstances

We don’t say it doesn’t happen. We say it’s very rare. This is the Fallacy of the Vivid Instance. You report one case here and thousands of people read it, so now thousands of people have heard about that one case. Meanhwhile, untold thousands of boys and men go through life with no problems at all, but their stories are also untold. Cutting the thousands for the sake of the one would be bad medicine, even if it weren’t a human rights violation.

As for cutting baby boys for the sake of what women prefer, just imagine switching the sexes (and I’m not talking about what they do to girls in Africa, but what they used to do to girls in hospitals in the US), and just watch the faeces collide with the ventilator!

Hugh7, thank you for your comments and for the links you left, I found them all very interesting. I don’t think we’re going to change anyone’s minds here but even a small discussion like this may help.

For the record all my partners have been circumcised but I have two sons who are not. My eldest son who is gay told me when I asked, that he is very happy to be intact. I’ve never asked my younger son directly but he did appear to have phimosis when young and there was some debate about circumcision when he was 5 or so. As it was not problematic at the time a decision was made to ‘wait and see’. He’s apparently managing just fine if the smile on his girlfriend’s face is anything to go on.

Personally, I wouldn’t knock back any erections attached to someone I fancied so cut or uncut is fine with me. Heck – if there’s smegma involved we can take a shower together first…..

You never know where you’re going to change people’s minds. Over the last several years I have seen a consensus against infant genital cutting growing on boards like this. Magna est veritas et praevalet! – Great is truth and it prevails.

i go wild for akroposthion … and dearly love foreskin, the feel to it, the smell of it, the taste of all that’s inside and the look of it … maybe if i had an akroposthion, i wouldn’t worship them so deeply …