My boyfriend, not the brightest light on the tree, claims vegetarians eat turkey and chicken because they aren't meat.
I told him if it moves of its own accord, its meat.
Can you give me a link or two so I can prove him wrong?

There are different kinds of vegetarians, depending on what they eat. The definition of a vegetarian thatís most widely accepted by fellow vegetarians is a person who eats no meat, fish, or poultry. A vegetarian consistently avoids all flesh foods, as well as byproducts of meat, fish, and poultry.

Now, having said that, people call themselves whatever the hell they want. There's no way to stop some diet-fanatic from declaring that he is a vegetarian even though he eats meat. In fact in 1944 Donald Watson invented the term "vegan" to mean "vegetarian who really means it" because so many different people had co-opted the term "vegetarian."

No chickens - no turkeys. But barnacle geese are okay, if you're sure they ripened on a tree. Actually, that's not vegetarianism, it's medieval fast days. For those, fish were okay. And they were closer to vegetarianism than your boyfriend is.

My boyfriend, not the brightest light on the tree, claims vegetarians eat turkey and chicken because they aren't meat.
I told him if it moves of its own accord, its meat.
Can you give me a link or two so I can prove him wrong?

While vegetarianism has different shades, everybody I've known for the past twenty or so years who refer to themselves as vegetarian excludes eating any creatures. And, yes, that includes fish. Vegans are stricter vegetarians who also eschew any animal products (that includes dairy and eggs as the big ones, and often honey). There are also other types of vegetarian, like Hindu vegetarians tend to be of the lacto-vegetarian kind (meaning, dairy is okay, but eggs are not. And, still, no creatures.)

For that matter, there are some religions where "vegetarian" also means no onions. Religious rules don't have to make sense.

Well, if it’s what I’m thinking of (Jainism, some Buddhists, etc), it’s not that they don’t consider onions (and garlic, potatoes, root vegetables, depending on who we’re talking about) non-vegetarian—it’s that their diet is vegetarian plus excludes certain foods that “excite the senses” or are otherwise considered bad for the soul. It’s really a separate issue from their vegetarianism, which is based on non-violence.

I think that someone who is a vegetarian doesn't eat any flesh from an animal. Is that not the case?

Generally, but words mean what we use them to mean, and the same word is frequently used to mean different things.

I had a friend who would eat wild-caught fish and game but not farmed animals, his rationale being that he was concerned about how animals lived, rather than about how they died. You may share his views or not, but it does look like a perfectly cromulent ethical position. But in circumstances where explaining this would have been more detail than was required, he would often simply slot himself into the "vegetarian" category, since this would mean he was not offered food that was problematic for him.

So, yeah, not everyone who is "vegetarian" is as necessarily vegetarian as we might expect. But our expectations are mostly our problem, not theirs.

I've been a pretty straight-up vegetarian for 30 years (except for a brief stretch during basic training when field chow was my only option, and I was burning 4000 calories a day). Anyway. I know lots of vegetarians and vegans. The rule is "Nothing with a face." Or, I would add, any kind or neurological system & vascular system, however primitive.

It means that for the vegetarian who chooses to eat eggs and dairy, FERTILIZED eggs are out. So is cheese with rennet. We also prefer cruelty-free eggs and dairy, so we like them to come from free-range animals.

We also don't wear leather, or use items form animals when it is not necessary, or an alternative of it is. A doctor offered me a medication once, and it was in capsule; it was the timed-release version. The capsules had gelatin. I found that the non-timed release worked just as well, but you hut you had to remember to take them every two hours, and wake up at night to take one.

I've been a pretty straight-up vegetarian for 30 years (except for a brief stretch during basic training when field chow was my only option, and I was burning 4000 calories a day). Anyway. I know lots of vegetarians and vegans. The rule is "Nothing with a face." Or, I would add, any kind or neurological system & vascular system, however primitive.

It means that for the vegetarian who chooses to eat eggs and dairy, FERTILIZED eggs are out. So is cheese with rennet. We also prefer cruelty-free eggs and dairy, so we like them to come from free-range animals.

We also don't wear leather, or use items form animals when it is not necessary, or an alternative of it is. A doctor offered me a medication once, and it was in capsule; it was the timed-release version. The capsules had gelatin. I found that the non-timed release worked just as well, but you hut you had to remember to take them every two hours, and wake up at night to take one.

But it's Ok to drive a car, even though the fuel used to be dinosaurs?

Anyone that's a vegetarian for moral reasons should stick to eating only fruit. By eating fruit you are generally helping the plant, while the eating of other parts is likely to harm it. What does having a face or advanced neurological system matter? That's not about morality, that's about things that creep you out.

For bonus points, once done eating, bury your apple cores in fertile ground not too close to any other trees.

If you define "face" to mean "mouth, nose, and two eyes", then birds don't have faces because a beak isn't the same as a nose and a mouth. Therefore, one can eat birds and still say "I never eat anything with a face".

As I see it, everyone has a line they draw of what they will eat and what they won't. Most Americans draw that line with cows and pigs on one side of the line but horses, cats, and dogs, on the other side of the line. Myself, I draw the line with mammals on one side and non-mammals on the other. I usually say "I don't eat beef or pork", but if someone asks me "Are you a vegetarian?", I often find it's easier to just say "yes" rather than go into an explanation.

As if we need another term for omnivore. What do you call a virgin who is flexible enough to have sex from time to time? Or, the smoker who says: Quitting is easy. I've done it dozens of times.

Surely you aren't suggesting that "vegetarian" should only apply to people who have never eaten meat, are you? That's the analogy with "virgin". And exactly how long does someone have to refrain from smoking before you would allow them to use the label "non-smoker"? One week? One month? One year? One decade? A closer analogy would be what would you call a person who never smokes cigarettes (or tobacco in any form) but occasionally smokes marijuana? Would you object to such a person calling themselves a non-smoker?

If you define "face" to mean "mouth, nose, and two eyes", then birds don't have faces because a beak isn't the same as a nose and a mouth. Therefore, one can eat birds and still say "I never eat anything with a face".

That's a bit silly, but it does bring to mind that certain animals like oysters legitimately don't have a face. A strict vegetarian wouldn't eat any dead animals. But a lot of vegetarians are not 100%. Pescetarians eat fish; I don't think there's a special word for people who eat certain invertebrates.

Surely you aren't suggesting that "vegetarian" should only apply to people who have never eaten meat, are you? That's the analogy with "virgin". And exactly how long does someone have to refrain from smoking before you would allow them to use the label "non-smoker"? One week? One month? One year? One decade? A closer analogy would be what would you call a person who never smokes cigarettes (or tobacco in any form) but occasionally smokes marijuana? Would you object to such a person calling themselves a non-smoker?

Deacon: I think we drink virgin blood because it sounds cool.

Vladislav: I think of it like this. If you are going to eat a sandwich, you would just enjoy it more if you knew no one had fucked it.

Fortunately, most cheese made these days doesn't involve real rennet. Something like 90% of cheese is made with fermentation-produced chymosin, where they've taken the genes for rennet enzymes and put them into fungi or bacteria. However, there's still some made with real rennet, so you may want to do some research if this matters to you

I try not to use a term, but it might be easier. I choose not to eat red meat for a variety of reasons (too fatty, colon cancer avoidance, don't really like it to begin with) but it sounds so pretentious to explain that, "oh I don't eat red meat," if someone offers me a cheeseburger or something. It swings the other way too. I've never claimed to be vegetarian, and I never would, but people who are familiar with my dietary habits refer to me that way all the time.

Fortunately, most cheese made these days doesn't involve real rennet. Something like 90% of cheese is made with fermentation-produced chymosin, where they've taken the genes for rennet enzymes and put them into fungi or bacteria.

Surely you're not saying that it's ok for a vegetarian to eat food that involves killing poor defenseless fungi?? Fungi are more closely related to animals than plants are. Stop the mycocide!

As if we need another term for omnivore. What do you call a virgin who is flexible enough to have sex from time to time? Or, the smoker who says: Quitting is easy. I've done it dozens of times.

Omnivore is not a choice. It's a biological fact. Humans are omnivores whether we choose to eat meat or not. Likewise, choosing to eat only plants does not make one an herbivore, nor does choosing to eat only meat make one a carnivore.

Anyone that's a vegetarian for moral reasons should stick to eating only fruit. By eating fruit you are generally helping the plant, while the eating of other parts is likely to harm it. What does having a face or advanced neurological system matter? That's not about morality, that's about things that creep you out.

For bonus points, once done eating, bury your apple cores in fertile ground not too close to any other trees.

But it's Ok to drive a car, even though the fuel used to be dinosaurs?

Ah, but they didn't die just to make them into oil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melbourne

There's probably a term for that too.

If there were, I'd use it. I became a vegetarian, because I don't like the way meat tastes. Never did. There were always battles at the table when I was a kid to get me to eat meat. Never had a problem with vegetables (and I always kinda resented that "kids don't like vegetables" stereotype), but the only meat I would eat without a fuss were roast beef, well-done, and a few types of chicken.

I was so happy when I was on my own, and could choose not to eat meat. I choose not to use leather, because I don't like the way it smells. Or feels.

I guess as an adult, knowing where meat and leather comes from has contributed to the squickiness, but when I was a little kid, I don't think I even knew where meat came from-- I just knew I didn't like it.

The term we used when I was at university was "white meat vegetarian", and there were plenty of them in the liberal arts school.

I've known quite a few people who simply say, "I don't eat red meat." I never considered them vegetarians of any stripe and I doubt they did either. Are you sure they weren't some wanker using the term WMV to get into some vegan's pants?

I've known quite a few people who simply say, "I don't eat red meat." I never considered them vegetarians of any stripe and I doubt they did either. Are you sure they weren't some wanker using the term WMV to get into some vegan's pants?

When I was a kid such people often identified as vegetarians. If someone says "I'm a vegan", I know what that means. If someone says "I'm a vegetarian", and I need to find/prepare food for them, I ask them to specify.

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