Aeon wrote:The "Admit Term: Spring/Summer 2010" does indeed mean that you've been admitted as a Summer Starter. Michigan has both a Spring (May-June) and a Summer (July-August) term, but the law school works on a slightly different schedule, hence the hybrid Spring/Summer designation.

Hold up -- are you sure? Mine says that as well, and I didn't apply to be a summer starter...

Well, I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Seriously, though, that's rather odd, as mine says "Spring/Summer," and I'm definitely a Summer starter; I was under the impression also that Fall starters would have had Fall 2010 as their Admit term. I could, of course, be mistaken, perhaps someone who was admitted for Fall 2010 might comment here?

In any case, I'd wait until your admit packet arrives and see what the official letter says.

Aeon wrote:The "Admit Term: Spring/Summer 2010" does indeed mean that you've been admitted as a Summer Starter. Michigan has both a Spring (May-June) and a Summer (July-August) term, but the law school works on a slightly different schedule, hence the hybrid Spring/Summer designation.

Hold up -- are you sure? Mine says that as well, and I didn't apply to be a summer starter...

Well, I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Seriously, though, that's rather odd, as mine says "Spring/Summer," and I'm definitely a Summer starter; I was under the impression also that Fall starters would have had Fall 2010 as their Admit term. I could, of course, be mistaken, perhaps someone who was admitted for Fall 2010 might comment here?

In any case, I'd wait until your admit packet arrives and see what the official letter says.

Whoa... Just looked at my letter (received last month) and I was admitted for summer start. Pretty sure I didn't ask to be. Does anyone know if summer start acceptees have the option to start in the fall, or am I bound to this?

Aeon wrote:The "Admit Term: Spring/Summer 2010" does indeed mean that you've been admitted as a Summer Starter. Michigan has both a Spring (May-June) and a Summer (July-August) term, but the law school works on a slightly different schedule, hence the hybrid Spring/Summer designation.

Hold up -- are you sure? Mine says that as well, and I didn't apply to be a summer starter...

Well, I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Seriously, though, that's rather odd, as mine says "Spring/Summer," and I'm definitely a Summer starter; I was under the impression also that Fall starters would have had Fall 2010 as their Admit term. I could, of course, be mistaken, perhaps someone who was admitted for Fall 2010 might comment here?

In any case, I'd wait until your admit packet arrives and see what the official letter says.

Whoa... Just looked at my letter (received last month) and I was admitted for summer start. Pretty sure I didn't ask to be. Does anyone know if summer start acceptees have the option to start in the fall, or am I bound to this?

Sorry! I assumed that you hadn't received your admit packet yet. All the same, this is an odd situation. You didn't apply ED, right?

I'd definitely contact Michigan's admissions office (the sooner the better). I'm not sure how easy it is to get switched from Summer to Fall or vice versa, but I've heard of it being done before. If you indicated your interest only for Fall on your application, then I imagine that you might have a strong case for a switch. Good luck!

Aeon wrote:Sorry! I assumed that you hadn't received your admit packet yet. All the same, this is an odd situation. You didn't apply ED, right?

I'd definitely contact Michigan's admissions office (the sooner the better). I'm not sure how easy it is to get switched from Summer to Fall or vice versa, but I've heard of it being done before. If you indicated your interest only for Fall on your application, then I imagine that you might have a strong case for a switch. Good luck!

This is probably now of dwindling interest for other folks, but I went on LSAC to check my app -- and yes indeed, I did check the box for "Summer or Fall" start without even realizing it. But now that I'm reading up on the program, I'm pretty intrigued. Would be interested to hear from other Summer people why they chose that path and what they're hoping to get out of it.

beesknees wrote:Hey everyone, decided to check in here since the Michigan 2010 thread is overrun by the recent decision batches and the confusion caused by not being able to log onto the ASW.

Anyway, I got my decision and was able to log in! I saw under "Mailings and Money" that they have me at "Admit Term: Spring/Summer 2010." Won't be getting my packet til next weekend because I'm away, but was wondering if anyone knew if that I meant I was accepted to be a Summer Starter.

I'm not sure if I want to do SS (concerns about graduating in Dec and roaming around looking for employment for several months) and I'd be giving up 2 months of work time earning $. Anyone here a SS for 2010? Wondering what you think about the early grad date's impact on employment (the work time I'll have to see if its worth working that extra 2 months). I've only been out of school for a year, but the "easing back into school" thing sounds nice.

I talked to a summer starter about this. He said that there aren't any issues with employment. Most firms are happy to have you start earlier (that may not be true anymore, though he graduated in '09). If you are doing a clerkship you may have to find something to do for awhile. Keep in mind that is just one person.

He said the one thing summer starters should remember is that because they take one less class the first semester, they have to take an extra one at some point later. Some people apparently forget that, and then Fall 3L rolls around...

Re: starting early, firms are def not (generally) letting people do this right now. My friends who just graduated in Dec 09 are pretty much all not doing anything until Sep at the very earliest. Those whose firms were deferring people are sitting around even longer than that... more than a year.

Alexandria wrote:Re: starting early, firms are def not (generally) letting people do this right now. My friends who just graduated in Dec 09 are pretty much all not doing anything until Sep at the very earliest. Those whose firms were deferring people are sitting around even longer than that... more than a year.

Know any government or public service folks who graduated in December? How are they faring?

Alexandria wrote:Re: starting early, firms are def not (generally) letting people do this right now. My friends who just graduated in Dec 09 are pretty much all not doing anything until Sep at the very earliest. Those whose firms were deferring people are sitting around even longer than that... more than a year.

Know any government or public service folks who graduated in December? How are they faring?

The only summer starters I know of who are doing public interest are clerking first, so they're waiting until the fall, then will start that.

Edit: I don't mean this to imply that there aren't plenty of people doing public interest... I just have a limited number of summer starter friends, and they're mostly going to firms.

beesknees wrote:See, that's what I'm worried about. If I graduated in Dec, sure I could find stuff to do for that time, but our loans would go into repayment that June, which is tough. At least if I graduate in May and start work soon after, I'll have a few months to get on my feet without having those scary loan payments. I also wouldn't want to pay for an extra semester just to delay graduating until May - school is costing me enough with just 6 semesters!

I think financially it makes more sense for me to start in the fall because I won't have to worry about finding employment right after graduation and I can work this summer and make some extra $$.

On the other hand, it's difficult to say what the state of the legal market will be by the time that we graduate.

beesknees wrote:See, that's what I'm worried about. If I graduated in Dec, sure I could find stuff to do for that time, but our loans would go into repayment that June, which is tough. At least if I graduate in May and start work soon after, I'll have a few months to get on my feet without having those scary loan payments. I also wouldn't want to pay for an extra semester just to delay graduating until May - school is costing me enough with just 6 semesters!

I think financially it makes more sense for me to start in the fall because I won't have to worry about finding employment right after graduation and I can work this summer and make some extra $$.

On the other hand, it's difficult to say what the state of the legal market will be by the time that we graduate.

True, but if I play it with Fall, if the economy is good, graduating in May will likely have no affect on my outcome, since almost all law grads graduate in May. If its still in the toilet, it'll be safer to graduate during the traditional May date because if firms are already deferring the previous class, its unlikely I'd be able to start early.

If the economy is totally in the crapper, we're all screwed no matter which date we choose, lol. The way I look at it, its fine either way with fall start (barring a completely disintegrated economy), but if the economy is still bad, its bad for me with SS because firms are already deferring people.

But I'm going to wait until after the ASW to talk to some SSers before I totally decide against it for myself. And I can certainly undertand the benefits of it and why people choose it, but for me, it might make more sense to wait (considering I have a job and the ability to work this summer).

beesknees wrote:See, that's what I'm worried about. If I graduated in Dec, sure I could find stuff to do for that time, but our loans would go into repayment that June, which is tough. At least if I graduate in May and start work soon after, I'll have a few months to get on my feet without having those scary loan payments. I also wouldn't want to pay for an extra semester just to delay graduating until May - school is costing me enough with just 6 semesters!

I think financially it makes more sense for me to start in the fall because I won't have to worry about finding employment right after graduation and I can work this summer and make some extra $$.

On the other hand, it's difficult to say what the state of the legal market will be by the time that we graduate.

This. And the fact that SS can help you land a firm job the summer after 1L might mitigate other employment concerns. You'd be able to apply with a semester's worth of grades a month or two before other 1Ls would have any, and by that time, you'd have about a full year's worth. I really don't think attempted economic forecasting should be any kind of significant factor in your decision, but that's just me...

beesknees wrote:See, that's what I'm worried about. If I graduated in Dec, sure I could find stuff to do for that time, but our loans would go into repayment that June, which is tough. At least if I graduate in May and start work soon after, I'll have a few months to get on my feet without having those scary loan payments. I also wouldn't want to pay for an extra semester just to delay graduating until May - school is costing me enough with just 6 semesters!

I think financially it makes more sense for me to start in the fall because I won't have to worry about finding employment right after graduation and I can work this summer and make some extra $$.

On the other hand, it's difficult to say what the state of the legal market will be by the time that we graduate.

This. And the fact that SS can help you land a firm job the summer after 1L might mitigate other employment concerns. You'd be able to apply with a semester's worth of grades a month or two before other 1Ls would have any, and by that time, you'd have about a full year's worth. I really don't think attempted economic forecasting should be any kind of significant factor in your decision, but that's just me...

I really wouldn't count on getting a 1L firm job, summer starter or fall starter. It has always been hard, and now it's ridiculous. Plus, even when I was a 1L and hiring was a little better, I don't remember noticing a particular trend where more summer starters got them than fall starters.

beesknees wrote:See, that's what I'm worried about. If I graduated in Dec, sure I could find stuff to do for that time, but our loans would go into repayment that June, which is tough. At least if I graduate in May and start work soon after, I'll have a few months to get on my feet without having those scary loan payments. I also wouldn't want to pay for an extra semester just to delay graduating until May - school is costing me enough with just 6 semesters!

I think financially it makes more sense for me to start in the fall because I won't have to worry about finding employment right after graduation and I can work this summer and make some extra $$.

On the other hand, it's difficult to say what the state of the legal market will be by the time that we graduate.

This. And the fact that SS can help you land a firm job the summer after 1L might mitigate other employment concerns. You'd be able to apply with a semester's worth of grades a month or two before other 1Ls would have any, and by that time, you'd have about a full year's worth. I really don't think attempted economic forecasting should be any kind of significant factor in your decision, but that's just me...

I really wouldn't count on getting a 1L firm job, summer starter or fall starter. It has always been hard, and now it's ridiculous. Plus, even when I was a 1L and hiring was a little better, I don't remember noticing a particular trend where more summer starters got them than fall starters.

That's possible; someone I had talked to told me that having grades available sooner gave you a better chance of being seriously considered (if you did well, at least)...

beesknees wrote:See, that's what I'm worried about. If I graduated in Dec, sure I could find stuff to do for that time, but our loans would go into repayment that June, which is tough. At least if I graduate in May and start work soon after, I'll have a few months to get on my feet without having those scary loan payments. I also wouldn't want to pay for an extra semester just to delay graduating until May - school is costing me enough with just 6 semesters!

I think financially it makes more sense for me to start in the fall because I won't have to worry about finding employment right after graduation and I can work this summer and make some extra $$.

On the other hand, it's difficult to say what the state of the legal market will be by the time that we graduate.

This. And the fact that SS can help you land a firm job the summer after 1L might mitigate other employment concerns. You'd be able to apply with a semester's worth of grades a month or two before other 1Ls would have any, and by that time, you'd have about a full year's worth. I really don't think attempted economic forecasting should be any kind of significant factor in your decision, but that's just me...

I'm not trying to forecast the economy. My only point that I was trying to make, was that graduating in May seems to have no apparent advantage or disadvantage. Graduating in December could be a disadvantage in light of recent firm deferrals - not that it will, just it could.

But there are other reasons to do SS that do not have to do with employment concerns (transitioning being a big one). I'm interested in learning about its pros and cons, just not totally sold on the idea.

beesknees wrote:But there are other reasons to do SS that do not have to do with employment concerns (transitioning being a big one). I'm interested in learning about its pros and cons, just not totally sold on the idea.

Fair enough. Summer Start's main attraction to me is, of course, that it allows an easier transition into law school, as well as what I've heard is great camaraderie among Summer starters. I also like the flexibility that it gives me should I need to take a semester off or get a dual degree.

There surely is no single right answer for everyone, though. It just depends on one's individual situation and preferences, I guess.

I'm super excited for summer start. I can't stand not being in school, and a month off will probably be perfect for me. In terms of graduation date, I'm planning on doing a dual degree, which will allow me to graduate in 3.5 years (that is, June 2013). Furthermore, if you're concerned about graduating at an unfavorable time, you can just take a semester off during your 2L or 3L year, according to the Michigan website. Thought whether you'll be able to find something to do (internship, etc) during that time is questionable.

I'm in love with Michigan's clinical programs...some really great stuff, especially for the PI-minded. Their LRAP looks really nice too.

My only concern -- the temperature! I've lived in the cold before, so I know I can handle it...I would just want to get an apartment close to class so that I wouldn't have to travel much. Thank goodness COL is affordable in Ann Arbor.

I'm a current summer starter looking to sublet my apartment from mid-May through August (just in time for you to move into the Lawyers Club, or you can renew for the year if the LC is not your thing). It's a large 1-bedroom apartment with a full, en-suite bathroom (contact me for pictures!). You would be just half a block from the law school, and 5 minutes' walk from the IMSB (gym). It is centrally located to downtown Ann Arbor, and you'll never have to walk for more than 5 minutes to get to the restaurant/bar/cafe.

The apartment is located in a recently built (2006), very clean, and quiet shared house. There is coin laundry on premises, and a shared kitchen, which is fully stocked. Parking is available. Rental period and price negotiable!

So if you're looking for a place close to the law school for the summer or for the entire year, please contact me at ayueh@umich.edu.

My only concern -- the temperature! I've lived in the cold before, so I know I can handle it...I would just want to get an apartment close to class so that I wouldn't have to travel much. Thank goodness COL is affordable in Ann Arbor.

Tangerine, have you spoken to anyone at Michigan about their LRAP? I would love to go to Michigan for many reasons, but from the preliminary research I've done, their LRAP just doesn't compare to Boalt or NYU's (my other two main choices). Their pay-nothing income cap is about $20,000 less than Boalt's, and the wording on the application and information sheets makes me a little nervous--it says they're expecting a lot more applicants, and people will be prioritized based on need/timeliness/available resources, etc. The feel I got from reading their information is that the program is not as well-established as other schools...but I think I might just need to call them to get a better picture of everything. Unfortunately, I can't attend the preview weekend. If you find out any specific info could you pass it along?

My only concern -- the temperature! I've lived in the cold before, so I know I can handle it...I would just want to get an apartment close to class so that I wouldn't have to travel much. Thank goodness COL is affordable in Ann Arbor.

Tangerine, have you spoken to anyone at Michigan about their LRAP? I would love to go to Michigan for many reasons, but from the preliminary research I've done, their LRAP just doesn't compare to Boalt or NYU's (my other two main choices). Their pay-nothing income cap is about $20,000 less than Boalt's, and the wording on the application and information sheets makes me a little nervous--it says they're expecting a lot more applicants, and people will be prioritized based on need/timeliness/available resources, etc. The feel I got from reading their information is that the program is not as well-established as other schools...but I think I might just need to call them to get a better picture of everything. Unfortunately, I can't attend the preview weekend. If you find out any specific info could you pass it along?

NYU might be different, but I wouldn't pick Boalt over Michigan just because of LRAP. The UC's and the state as a whole are really hurting. While the state of Michigan isn't doing well either, U of M seems much less tied to the state than Boalt is. I mean, Boalts OOS tuition is going to be above $60k/yr in a year or two, and that doesn't even factor in Bay Area COL. It would not surprise me at all if the UC System's financial problems force Boalt's LRAP to take a big hit in coming years, dropping it equal to or even below Michigan's.

Actually, I would be leery to use LRAP as a big deciding factor for any school. When schools like Harvard are forced to reduce their programs, you know times are getting tough. If endowments keep taking hits like they have been, and the economy isn't recovering, it wouldn't surprise me if LRAP programs became virtually extinct in 5-10 years...

My only concern -- the temperature! I've lived in the cold before, so I know I can handle it...I would just want to get an apartment close to class so that I wouldn't have to travel much. Thank goodness COL is affordable in Ann Arbor.

Tangerine, have you spoken to anyone at Michigan about their LRAP? I would love to go to Michigan for many reasons, but from the preliminary research I've done, their LRAP just doesn't compare to Boalt or NYU's (my other two main choices). Their pay-nothing income cap is about $20,000 less than Boalt's, and the wording on the application and information sheets makes me a little nervous--it says they're expecting a lot more applicants, and people will be prioritized based on need/timeliness/available resources, etc. The feel I got from reading their information is that the program is not as well-established as other schools...but I think I might just need to call them to get a better picture of everything. Unfortunately, I can't attend the preview weekend. If you find out any specific info could you pass it along?

NYU might be different, but I wouldn't pick Boalt over Michigan just because of LRAP. The UC's and the state as a whole are really hurting. While the state of Michigan isn't doing well either, U of M seems much less tied to the state than Boalt is. I mean, Boalts OOS tuition is going to be above $60k/yr in a year or two, and that doesn't even factor in Bay Area COL. It would not surprise me at all if the UC System's financial problems force Boalt's LRAP to take a big hit in coming years, dropping it equal to or even below Michigan's.

Actually, I would be leery to use LRAP as a big deciding factor for any school. When schools like Harvard are forced to reduce their programs, you know times are getting tough. If endowments keep taking hits like they have been, and the economy isn't recovering, it wouldn't surprise me if LRAP programs became virtually extinct in 5-10 years...

If someone is interested in PI they pretty much have to consider LRAP unless they're getting full rides or have wealthy and generous parents. Without those programs, the top law schools are out of reach for those who don't have either of the above and who aren't going for biglaw.

I've been scrutinizing Michigan's LRAP and it seems one of the best (no yearly caps and no specification of type of employment other than "legal" employment besides clerkships). Still, I see StarStruck's point about the guarantee of a program's funding. It makes me extremely nervous to think I'd have all of that debt and would have to rely on IBR (which is far less desirable).

Ahh! I wish Michigan would just throw me some $ and make me feel better lol.

My only concern -- the temperature! I've lived in the cold before, so I know I can handle it...I would just want to get an apartment close to class so that I wouldn't have to travel much. Thank goodness COL is affordable in Ann Arbor.

Tangerine, have you spoken to anyone at Michigan about their LRAP? I would love to go to Michigan for many reasons, but from the preliminary research I've done, their LRAP just doesn't compare to Boalt or NYU's (my other two main choices). Their pay-nothing income cap is about $20,000 less than Boalt's, and the wording on the application and information sheets makes me a little nervous--it says they're expecting a lot more applicants, and people will be prioritized based on need/timeliness/available resources, etc. The feel I got from reading their information is that the program is not as well-established as other schools...but I think I might just need to call them to get a better picture of everything. Unfortunately, I can't attend the preview weekend. If you find out any specific info could you pass it along?

NYU might be different, but I wouldn't pick Boalt over Michigan just because of LRAP. The UC's and the state as a whole are really hurting. While the state of Michigan isn't doing well either, U of M seems much less tied to the state than Boalt is. I mean, Boalts OOS tuition is going to be above $60k/yr in a year or two, and that doesn't even factor in Bay Area COL. It would not surprise me at all if the UC System's financial problems force Boalt's LRAP to take a big hit in coming years, dropping it equal to or even below Michigan's.

Actually, I would be leery to use LRAP as a big deciding factor for any school. When schools like Harvard are forced to reduce their programs, you know times are getting tough. If endowments keep taking hits like they have been, and the economy isn't recovering, it wouldn't surprise me if LRAP programs became virtually extinct in 5-10 years...

If someone is interested in PI they pretty much have to consider LRAP unless they're getting full rides or have wealthy and generous parents. Without those programs, the top law schools are out of reach for those who don't have either of the above and who aren't going for biglaw.

Oh, I understand that. In my opinion, there are really two types of schools: those that have good LRAP programs, and those that don't (or don't have any). I think those interested in PI definitely should go (if they can) to a school with a good program. And it's fine to compare them, but I guess I would caution about splitting hairs between LRAP programs and using that as a main factor in your decision. I guess my point was that in this situation you should pick from a school that has a good LRAP program, and you should make your choice from that group based on stable factors (picking a school you like, based on prestige, a location you like, near the market you want to work in, where you think you'll fit in, what's cheapest, has programs you're interested in, whatever...) much more so than on unstable factors like whose LRAP program is slightly better, since for all we know they could drastically change in a few years...