@shamans I think you are misunderstanding simple economics. Klopp's expenses don't scale 1:1 with his salary. If a person earning 50k buys a £5 lunch every day, for your argument to make sense, Klopp's lunch would have to be $800. That's obviously ridiculous. This is due to football salaries and executive positions generally increasing much faster than inflation whereas regular salaries barely keep up with inflation.

So what you want to measure is how much the fine is in terms of residual income after accounting for expenses. Your math would make sense only if everything scales perfectly. It means Klopp should be paying 160 times more for his house, his groceries, his car, his petrol...

The poster arguing with you has a point that you are missing. Because the expenses are not scaling, Klopp ends up with more percentage of his income as residual after expenses (that's how you accumulate wealth).

@shamans I think you are misunderstanding simple economics. Klopp's expenses don't scale 1:1 with his salary. If a person earning 50k buys a £5 lunch every day, for your argument to make sense, Klopp's lunch would have to be $800. That's obviously ridiculous. This is due to football salaries and executive positions generally increasing much faster than inflation whereas regular salaries barely keep up with inflation.

So what you want to measure is how much the fine is in terms of residual income after accounting for expenses. Your math would make sense only if everything scales perfectly. It means Klopp should be paying 160 times more for his house, his groceries, his car, his petrol...

The poster arguing with you has a point that you are missing. Because the expenses are not scaling, Klopp ends up with more percentage of his income as residual after expenses (that's how you accumulate wealth).

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Yeah true in the sense that it wont impact him the exact same way a 100 pound ticket would impact us but $8k is definitely enough for him to be annoyed about this. I understand the scaling bit but to some extent the other things scale too: His lunch may not be 800 but I'm sure he doesn't eat 5 pound lunches and similarly, his house mortgage/rent would be several times more than the average person. Same for the car he drives and his overall lifestyle. Like you said, more percentage of his income as residual after expenses is how you accumulate wealth but lifestyle inflation is also a factor which is why likes of Maradonna and Jackson went broke.

I get your point but I'm only saying $8k for stepping on a football pitch is definitely enough to annoy klopp and any more is just nor warranted.

Liverpool fans' reactions in this thread are a bit comical. Jumping to everything to defend Klopp and of course mentioning Mourinho (although some United fans do it who I think dream Mourinho). I mean United forum and they act as surprised Klopp is getting stick here.
FA punishment is a we had to do something so we fine him one.
Cause passion.
Not the end of the world, celebration, cheesy as f like always, but shouldn't be done.

Of course now I expect another post comparing him to Mourinho, the devil.

Wtf? One is entirely inconsequential, the other is a manager running onto the middle of the pitch while the game is still in progress. Imagine if he did that at an away ground? There could be a riot.

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Throwing bottles is inconsequential ?, don't be soft, Klopp is guilty of leaving his technical area, that's all, what Jose done could have resulted in someone getting hurt, how can you even compare the 2 ?.

Throwing bottles is inconsequential ?, don't be soft, Klopp is guilty of leaving his technical area, that's all, what Jose done could have resulted in someone getting hurt, how can you even compare the 2 ?.

What if Eddie Howe did what Klopp did and got fined £8,000. I'm assuming Howe earns around half a million, is that still a fair fine or should he be fined less cause he earns less? Sounds like people just want to punish the rich more cause they have more?

What if Eddie Howe did what Klopp did and got fined £8,000. I'm assuming Howe earns around half a million, is that still a fair fine or should he be fined less cause he earns less? Sounds like people just want to punish the rich more cause they have more?

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Well yes, that is exactly the idea. While I think way too much fuss is being made about all of this (I know from Dortmund experience Klopp can be a bit over the top but being obviously biased I do enjoy it), I think fines should indeed be relative to ones income. As someone mentioned residual income in this thread, even that would probably not be fair. Klopp would probably not be ruined by losing for example 3 months of wages whereas your average Joe could run into serious issues in that case. So while I feel like Klopp deserves a slap on the wrist for his run onto the pitch (which is basically what he got) I feel like generally the rich should pay higher fines. You say "people want to punish the rich more" but I think the idea is to punish them equally which you do by having them pay higher fines.

One more thought I would like to bring up: In Germany these kinds of fines and penalties usually increase with your history of these kinds of "crimes". It was actually something Klopp struggled with a bit since he had more than one run-in with the german FA. So I am not aware of his general behaviour in the PL but if this is the first time that he has been charged it makes sense to go easy on him. If a coach or player does this regularly higher penalties are in order.

Well yes, that is exactly the idea. While I think way too much fuss is being made about all of this (I know from Dortmund experience Klopp can be a bit over the top but being obviously biased I do enjoy it), I think fines should indeed be relative to ones income. As someone mentioned residual income in this thread, even that would probably not be fair. Klopp would probably not be ruined by losing for example 3 months of wages whereas your average Joe could run into serious issues in that case. So while I feel like Klopp deserves a slap on the wrist for his run onto the pitch (which is basically what he got) I feel like generally the rich should pay higher fines. You say "people want to punish the rich more" but I think the idea is to punish them equally which you do by having them pay higher fines.

One more thought I would like to bring up: In Germany these kinds of fines and penalties usually increase with your history of these kinds of "crimes". It was actually something Klopp struggled with a bit since he had more than one run-in with the german FA. So I am not aware of his general behaviour in the PL but if this is the first time that he has been charged it makes sense to go easy on him. If a coach or player does this regularly higher penalties are in order.

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Then where does it end if you're not on equal playing field? Should a Ferrari owner with higher income have to pay a bigger fine than a Hyundai owner going 10mph over the speed limit? I agree repeatable offenders should be punished more harshly.

Throwing bottles is inconsequential ?, don't be soft, Klopp is guilty of leaving his technical area, that's all, what Jose done could have resulted in someone getting hurt, how can you even compare the 2 ?.

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Someone could've got wet, I'll give you that. Klopp did his own pitch invasion. That encourages fans to do the same because they see the manager doing it.

Then where does it end if you're not on equal playing field? Should a Ferrari owner with higher income have to pay a bigger fine than a Hyundai owner going 10mph over the speed limit? I agree repeatable offenders should be punished more harshly.

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Yes, of course he should. That is the entire point. The fines are meant as a deterrent and a punishment, would they deter or punish you if you had to pay 50p for speeding? I think not. In Switzerland for example they actually have the fines for speeding scale with your income as far as I know (someone correct me if I am wrong, just did a quick check online and seems to be the case). I think that is a very good idea. Of course the same can not go for prison sentences and such but monetary fines should ideally always take into account the financial situation of the person being punished.

The Russian FA got fined 22k for supporters making racist chants this year, football fines have always been god awful in relation to the money in the sport, and usually for much much worse offenses. Don't let the manager celebrating the last minute winner be the one which gets you triggered.

Yes, of course he should. That is the entire point. The fines are meant as a deterrent and a punishment, would they deter or punish you if you had to pay 50p for speeding? I think not. In Switzerland for example they actually have the fines for speeding scale with your income as far as I know (someone correct me if I am wrong, just did a quick check online and seems to be the case). I think that is a very good idea. Of course the same can not go for prison sentences and such but monetary fines should ideally always take into account the financial situation of the person being punished.

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Then where does it end? We all want consistency but then we want more punishment to the people who do better in life (earn more). The tax system is bad enough. Switzerland may operate this way but I'm pretty sure most other countries don't. A money punishment will always hurt some more, and some less. It certainly hurts Klopp a lot less than someone like Howe for instance. I think a fair punishment is a ban of some sort (touchline ban for X amount of games?) As it will hurt every manager equally regardless of income.

No problem with his celebration. He's a character and acts like that of impulse are good for the game. That said, and as strange as it sounds, it's correct to fine him for it. Can understand him doing it but the downside is, it was actually a goalkeeping mistake that gave them the 3 pts.

Throwing bottles is inconsequential ?, don't be soft, Klopp is guilty of leaving his technical area, that's all, what Jose done could have resulted in someone getting hurt, how can you even compare the 2 ?.

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What about Klopps first pumping and flinging of limbs in celebration? He could easily hurt someone if he isn't doing it in a controlled and safe manner

I always find it funny that the governing body of football always fine such sums to millionaires. Theres no pain to modify the behaviour. Like when city just added the ffp fines to the cost of doing business. Start taking points off the feckers, youll see them starting to respect the rules.

Okay, this will be my last posting on the topic. Not because I am annoyed at you but merely because my number of posts per day is limited and I feel like I generally got my point across even if I feel like you seem to unintentionally be missing part of it. Really not meaning to have a go at you.

Then where does it end? We all want consistency but then we want more punishment to the people who do better in life (earn more).

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As I said, in my opinion it would ideally not end anywhere. The point is consistency and it is NOT more punishment, it is equal punishment in relative terms. The goal is not to hinder people in doing good in their life but to exact punishment for wrong doing that is punishing in a comparable way. Just imagine it was the other way around and speeding 10 km/h costs £8k. In that case the likes of Klopp and Mourinho could still drive their car to work and even risk getting the fine, because it won't hurt them really. I for example pretty much could not drive a car anymore because that would be me risking my livelihood.

So would that be a fair charge for speeding? It would be a fine that would hurt millionaires a bit, they might actually feel it. For most other people it is just completely disproportionate. That is what I am trying to say here. A punishment (and that is what it is supposed to be in both the FA's case and for speeding) should be proportionate to what the person being punished is able to afford. It should "hurt" people that have to pay it equally and that is just not possible with a fixed amount.

I think this is an ideological point. As someone working in academia I am probably going to earn a proper wage at some point. Still I feel like the rich should be taxed even more than they are now (speaking for Germany here). Especially estate taxes and property taxes are something I am a big proponent of but I think this would be going too far here.

Switzerland may operate this way but I'm pretty sure most other countries don't.

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You are correct, most other countries don't. But is that a good thing? I think most other countries don't because the people earning higher wages make the laws. So it is of course not in their interest to pay higher fines even though that would both be fairer and more effective as a deterrent.

A money punishment will always hurt some more, and some less. It certainly hurts Klopp a lot less than someone like Howe for instance.

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That is probably true but this inequality could be minimized by for example tying fines to income or wealth. If you do not mind the unfairness then you should not complain if speeding costs £8k either right?

I think a fair punishment is a ban of some sort (touchline ban for X amount of games?) As it will hurt every manager equally regardless of income.

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After all that back to topic: If this is indeed Klopp's first punishable (or indeed punished) offense I feel like that would be a bit harsh for what I feel is not a major offense. Here people can of course be of differing opinions and I think consistency with comparable solutions should be upheld.

I always find it funny that the governing body of football always fine such sums to millionaires. Theres no pain to modify the behaviour. Like when city just added the ffp fines to the cost of doing business. Start taking points off the feckers, youll see them starting to respect the rules.

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He was given a warning rather than a punishment, the £8k was just to make it look official.

He was given a warning rather than a punishment, the £8k was just to make it look official.

His punishment will be significantly harsher should he do it again.

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You say that, but will it really? A touch line ban? Where what really happens is some poor bastard has to run up and down stairs for 90 minutes passing notes. A larger fine still won’t be large enough that it will make a dent. To me it’s like giving someone a 50p fine for parking on double yellows.