BUDAPEST — “Of course it’s not accepted, but the factual point is that all the terrorists are basically migrants,” says Viktor Orbán. “The question is when they migrated to the European Union.”

In his office at the Hungarian parliament, the prime minister points toward the flowing Danube. In another era, an aide notes, the Turks followed this river into the heart of Europe. Behind Orbán hang two maps: One shows a short stretch of Hungary’s border with Croatia and another gives a panoramic view of the Balkans toward Turkey, from where hundreds of thousands of migrants have made their way north this year.

In a wide-ranging 90-minute interview a week after the Paris terrorist attacks, Orbán lays out his prescriptions for Europe’s ailments: An impenetrable external border to boost security and save the Schengen treaty on passport-less travel within the EU; a new EU constitutional convention that strengthens the power of nation states and weakens Brussels; and normalized relations with Russia.

Thinking of Paris and its aftermath, the Hungarian leader posits an “overwhelming logical” connection between terrorism and the movement of Muslims into Europe — in the last few months as well as over recent decades — that to him and many Europeans is “an obvious fact,” whether “you like it or not.”

“The majority of our leaders in the West deny the fact,” he adds. That denial of the “obvious” — which the Hungarian leader blames on political correctness run amok — destabilizes European politics by increasing “the gap between the leaders and the people.”

‘We want to save Schengen’

Whether European leaders like Orbán or not, the Hungarian’s critique of the EU’s migration policy this year changed the terms of the debate. With blaring alarms about terrorism across Europe, the leader of this country of 10 million is again the uncensored Id of the European right, offering ideas that the rest of the bloc can’t ignore (and even, in some cases, pronounce aloud).

Linking terror to migration, Orbán says the “number one job” after Paris is “to defend the borders and to control who is coming in.” NATO and EU countries are “at war” with Islamists in the Middle East and Afghanistan, and, he says, “it’s quite logical” that “enemies” would seek to send fighters with migrants coming into Europe.

We criticize [the EU and NATO] because they are far from perfect, but the starting attitude of the Hungarians to Western institutions is always positive.

“All of them present a security threat because we don’t know who they are. If you allow thousands or millions of unidentified persons into your house, the risk of … terrorism will significantly increase.”

Orbán says he doesn’t presume to tell Western European countries such as Belgium and France how to deal with the offspring of Muslim migrants who in his words belong to “parallel societies,” holding EU passports but rejecting Western values.

But, as calls grow to rethink open borders — with five Western European countries holding preliminary talks about a more limited “mini-Schengen” zone (which wouldn’t include Hungary) — Orbán presents his hard line on frontiers as the best way to silence calls to suspend or bury Schengen.

“We would like to save Schengen,” he says. “We would like to save the liberties … including the free movement inside the European Union,” which, he says, are imperilled by unregulated and porous external borders.

An EU rethink

Earlier this year, Hungary was widely criticized for building a barbed wire fence along its border with Serbia to stop the waves of new arrivals. For Orbán, Hungary was merely upholding the law of the Union that Greece (“a major problem for us”) failed to do by allowing the migrants to continue north unimpeded.

Orbán’s opposition helped torpedo a scheme championed by the European Commission for a mandatory resettlement of migrants across the EU, and flipped the discussion from how best to accommodate the refugees to one of how to stop them from coming at all.

If I disagree with them, they say, ‘You are not a democrat, you are not a good man, you belong to the bad guys’.

For the Hungarian, this year of troubles — from Greece to migration, from terrorism to possible Brexit — calls for a wholesale rethink of the EU. The bloc “is only reacting, reacting, crisis after crisis, instead of having a concept.” Asked if the EU will be here in 10 years, he says, “it’s an open question.”

Orbán says he wants the EU to call a new convention on the future of Europe with a mandate “to modify even the Basic Treaty,” the kind of exercise that the bloc last carried out a decade ago. That convention, overseen by former French President Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, drafted a new constitution for the EU, which was killed in referendums in France and elsewhere.

In Orbán’s proposed reform of the EU, the balance of powers would tilt back toward nation states and away from leaders in Brussels who have “very much the pro-United States of Europe position,” he says.

The Hungarian has no illusions about the ability of a leader of a small Central European nation to force his views onto the EU agenda. Even David Cameron and the British “are not strong enough to generate a European discussion,” he says, and are limited to negotiating terms of a deal for Britain alone.

“Innovation is part of” politics, he says, “but basically it’s an art of reality.”

Although he’s widely seen in Western Europe as a leader who’s turned his back on “liberal democracy” and embraced Russia’s Vladimir Putin, Orbán insists he wants to save the EU and NATO. “Hungary’s place is [in the] West,” he says. “We criticize them because they are far from perfect, but the starting attitude of the Hungarians to Western institutions is always positive.”

Prime Minister Orban, with the Danube in the background. Photo by Árpád Kurucz

In his own telling, he’s not the populist provocateur of EU media lore. “The basic character of all politics is cooperation, not confrontation,” he says. “We cooperate. We confront when it is necessary, not because we enjoy it.”

Putin is someone you can cooperate with. He’s not an easy man. He is not a man who has a known personality, so don’t imagine him as you like to imagine Western leaders.

Getting up from his seat around a large conference table, Orbán walks over to the books stacked on his desk and shelf. He picks up a tract on Europe he’s reading by Jürgen Habermas, the German philosopher and proponent of a closer, federal EU. “The most dangerous book,” he calls it.

There are essay collections by the founder of the ultra-conservative Catholic Opus Dei movement (Orbán’s a Calvinist) and the Hungarian Nobel laureate in literature, Imre Kertész. He’s reading about the political theory of Islam and another book on the global sexual revolution — “an anti-gender study,” he says, “about how we destroy freedom in the name of freedom.”

‘The very arrogant mainstream’

At 52, Orbán carries a healthy paunch and says his football-playing days are mostly behind him. He puts on a tie and jacket for a photographer, then quickly dispenses with both. In his part of the world, he says, leaders are more laid-back.

He speaks fluidly in English and cracks jokes, showing off a talent for retail politics that won him three national elections (1998, 2010, 2014) and altogether a decade as Hungary’s prime minister. While critics say he caricatures Muslims, financiers and liberal elites, and uses his majorities in parliament to whittle away at Hungary’s relatively young democratic institutions, Orbán himself defies facile caricature.

He isn’t a “dictator” à la Putin or Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, to use the gibe thrown at him by Jean-Claude Juncker. In his half comic, half mutually contemptuous routine with the European Commission chief, Orbán returns serve by calling the Luxembourger “the Grand Duke.”

The Hungarian waves aside comparisons of his ruling style with the autocrat in Moscow and Turkey’s strong-handed leader as “ridiculous” and “a lazy way of thinking” — an insult that Western European politicians use to try to marginalize him.

“If I … disagree with them, they say, ‘You are not a democrat, you are not a good man, you belong to the bad guys’,” he says. Any time he breaks with the “very arrogant and aggressive” Western European “mainstream” on migration or another issue, he says, “we are morally labeled as xenophobic, Putin-type, whatever.”

Liberalism in Europe now concentrates not on freedom but on political correctness. It became a sclerotic ideology. Dogmatic, may I say.

The censures come not just from Brussels and Berlin but Hungary’s ally across the Atlantic. In unusually blunt terms, the U.S. ambassador to Hungary last month criticized the Orbán government’s crackdowns on NGOs, limits on media freedoms, the packing of the courts with allies, the redrawing of electoral districts in ways that favor the ruling coalition and corruption.

Speaking at Corvinus University, Ambassador Colleen Bell noted America’s “concerns about the state of checks and balances and democratic institutions,” the “centralization of power” and “opaque” decision-making.

The ‘illiberal democrat’

There is an oft-noted irony that this pro-democracy dissident of the late 1980s, who co-founded the Fidesz student-led movement and helped bring down communism, is seen in the second half of his nearly three-decade run in Hungarian politics as a threat to its democracy.

Addressing doubts about his democratic bona fides, Orbán says he has been in parliamentary opposition longer — a dozen years — than in power, and expects to “lose again” in future elections. “You can’t avoid to lose because that’s part of the job,” he says.

Yet in this run as prime minister, Orbán has made his name abroad as a prominent critic of “liberal democracy,” someone who pushes an alternative political model for Europe. In a widely circulated speech to ethnic Hungarians in Romania last year, he announced his desire to build “an illiberal new state based on national foundations,” and argued that “liberal democracy can’t stay competitive.”

Orban at his office in the Hungarian Parliament. Photo by Árpád Kurucz

It was the moment that Orbán most vocally broke with the liberalism that defined his early years in politics with Fidesz and a leadership role in the Liberal International throughout the 1990s.

Orbán admits his thinking and behavior have changed over 25 years — “it would be irresponsible not to change” — but also says that liberalism itself, both in Hungary and globally, isn’t what it once was.

“Liberalism in Europe now concentrates not on freedom but on political correctness. It became a sclerotic ideology. Dogmatic, may I say. The liberals are enemies of freedom” who, he says, want to limit Hungary’s freedom to make its choices as a nation-state.

“Liberalism became a mainstream politics. They fight against everybody who does not belong to the mainstream. But not to belong to the mainstream does not mean that you are not in favor of freedom. Just the opposite now.”

Me and Putin

Orbán’s political journey took its first sharp turn after Fidesz lost seats in a 1994 elections. When another party picked up the urban, youth electorate that Fidesz had courted, he went to find votes on the traditional right and outside Budapest, in religious, rural areas. His former liberal friends call the shifting shapes of Orbán opportunistic and cynical. He says he’s right where he belongs, with the “national-Christian-civic political family.”

“You know, I’m a village boy,” says Orbán, who grew up in Székesfehérvár, a town of 100,000 southwest of Budapest.

People call him a populist.

“Because I am,” he retorts. “The problem is nobody knows what [that] means. It does not sound bad in Hungarian ears. Being a populist means that you try to serve the people. It’s positive.”

Support for his Fidesz party has grown from 40 percent last December to almost 50 percent today, according to polls.

The other notable irony of the modern Orbán is his relationship with Putin. He fought to bring down the Soviet empire and remove Russian troops from Hungarian soil. Putin, a KGB officer who was a cog in the Soviet system that Orbán battled, is now seeking to restore Russian power.

These days, Orbán opposes EU sanctions on Russia over its incursions into Ukraine, though Hungary has signed off on them since last year. He nurtures close business ties with Moscow, particularly in energy. Despite the Russian occupation of Crimea and military presence in eastern Ukraine, Orbán is among the more vocal EU leaders calling for the West to come to terms with the Kremlin.

Given his staunchly anti-Soviet past, does his friendly relationship with Putin give him any discomfort?

“It’s strange, but politics is full of strange things, so it’s not uncomfortable,” Orbán says. “That’s part of the job. And you know politics is basically not a personal issue, and what I represent is not my opinion but the interests of the Hungarian nation. And the point is very clear, without the Russians it’s impossible to manage rightly the future of the Hungarians. So we have to have a good balanced relationship with the Russians.”

He says he has no personal warm feelings for the Russian leader — adding that he would not deny it if he did like Putin, just to please Western opinion, which “you know, does not matter for us.”

“Putin is someone you can cooperate with. He’s not an easy man. He has no personal feelings [for] you…. He is not a man who has a known personality, so don’t imagine him as you like to imagine Western leaders.”

With Russia, Orbán continues, any country can have only a “power policy based on reality,” adding that “if you would like to have a relationship with the Russians based on principles, it will never work.” European and Russian principles are “impossible to harmonize. So put aside principles, ideologies and look at the interest, and find the common sense realpolitik agreements. That’s the Hungarian approach.”

When the EU soon considers whether to extend sanctions on Russia, at least until June, Orbán says he will voice his opposition but won’t use his veto power to stop the extension — “a veto is a nuclear bomb, it’s good to have but don’t use it.”

He says the final decision on sanctions ultimately rests with the Germans.

While Orbán notes that Hungary’s closest ally in Europe, Poland, backs sanctions, he says he finds more than a little hypocrisy coming from Berlin. Germans “like to appear as opposing” him on sanctions on Russia, he says, “but in fact they are doing even more than we are” to work with Russia. Orbán points to Berlin’s support for a second gas pipeline from Russia to Germany under the Baltic, which will deprive Ukraine of billions in yearly transit fees.

Balancing the Germans

“Hungarians are easygoing guys in the European Union,” Orbán says, laughing. “What we are doing, we are saying — and what we are doing is exactly what we are thinking. So it’s not complicated.”

Orbán says the Russia relationship helps him balance a testy one with Berlin: “We would not like to depend on the Germans.”

Angela Merkel is no fan of his, and the feeling seems mutual. Still, Orbán says it’s easier to work with the German chancellor than with Putin: “With Merkel we have a principle-based policy. So if you agree on certain principles, it’s easy to manage the reality. Just the opposite with Putin: We can manage some reality, but never agree on principle. As we Hungarians like to say, it’s a different coffee house.”

Related stories on these topics:

Patrick Worms

Mr Orbán has the right to his own opinions, not to his own facts. His “factual point (…) that all the terrorists are basically migrants” is anything but factually true. Europol, not a nest of liberal do-gooders, keeps tabs on all terrorism attacks in Europe and has the number at less than 2%. It is that cavalier attitude to the truth, as much as his cavalier attitude to political and media freedoms, which make him such a toxic European leader. The last thing we need is lying populist in positions of power pouting oil on the fire.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 9:22 AM CEST

josie

Orban is an intelligent version of Donald Trump

Posted on 11/23/15 | 10:36 AM CEST

josie

Who are the remaining 98%?

Posted on 11/23/15 | 10:40 AM CEST

youngeuropeans

Maybe but not all migrants are terrorists… Furthermore we need to make sure we learn right lessons from Paris and Beirut attacks. These attacks highlight the very reason why refugees are fleeing Syria and Iraq. Indeed, rather than blaming refugees for what happened, people should realise that the people behind the recent attacks in Paris and Beirut are the very people refugees are fleeing from. Not to mention that although the Paris attacks were awful we cannot let one incident distract us from the very real need for migration into Europe (https://youngeuropeansnetwork.wordpress.com/2015/08/19/why-europe-needs-…)

Posted on 11/23/15 | 10:44 AM CEST

cartmann

he is not that far from the point? some of them (minorite) are terrorist and the others just waiting for hallifax to happens… Not true?

Posted on 11/23/15 | 10:50 AM CEST

Emese

Patrick: It depends on how you define “migrant”. Technically I guess you’re right – a migrant is somebody who is living in a country in which he isn’t born.

But in reality non-integrated muslim minorities with immigrant background is considered “immigrants” by public Hungarian definition.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 11:07 AM CEST

D X

I agree with all the position and declarations of Orbán!
I don’t know how he is for Hungarians, but viewd from outside, in external affairs he seems very enlightned.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 11:11 AM CEST

nod20

Mr. Orbán is a dictator à la Putin or Erdoğan. He has the same modus operandi. He has the same modus operandi.
He and his country has no place within the EU.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 11:16 AM CEST

Groundskeeper Willie

@nod20: Agreed. Serving the interests of its own nation and culture and seeing things rationally are abhorrent deviations that have no place in the current EU! Hungary should be evicted from the EU. Together with Poland, Slovakia, Czechia, UK, Denmark, Baltics and others who dare to stand to the official European Truth.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 11:33 AM CEST

luis3

nod20:” Mr. Orbán is a dictator à la Putin or Erdoğan. ”

Please let the Hungarian voters to decide . It seems they agree.
Mr Orban has much more democratic mandate, than ANY Eu leader.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 12:12 PM CEST

paleocon666

Orban is the Winston Churchill of Europe’s 21st century. The rest, Juncker, Merkel, Hollande et al, they are little dwarfs in comparison.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 12:38 PM CEST

Liza

Is Mr Orban ‘a toxic European’ politician ????? Lets see who else we have got as alternatives to him.

JEAN ASSELBORN wants to strengthen the security and checks at the EU’s external borders. However, he does not want to protect the (green) borders with fence/soldiers/law (Hungarian way). According to him, this is an inhuman way of treating migrants. He should tell Europeans how to defend our borders than because he condemns not only the fence, as a way of making immigration more controllable, but he also condemns using force (tear gas, batons or water canons). When Hungarian, Macedonian, Greek, Croatian or Slovenian authorities ask migrants nicely to wait or identify themselves, as a response, the migrants protest or push police officers aside or attack them. So what is the human way to defend our borders ‘modern’ liberals?

GILLES de KERCHOVE (EU’s Counter Terrorism Coordinator). He stated last time that there is no connection between immigration and terrorism in Europe. He is confident that there are no (potential) terrorists among those who have been crossing the EU’s borders unchecked. He did not talk about 2%, he talked about 0%!!!! How can he be so confident about that? ….and where did statisticians get the 2%? Currently no one can know who the migrants really are. They are flooding in without documents (fake names, fake nationality..) or with fake passports. Often no one checks their bags either. While it takes 18-22 months to ‘identify’ and ‘check’ one asylum seeker who has documents in the US, EU officials do not have to bother, they just know everyone is ‘innocent refugee’. Those EU officials who give an exact number of potential terrorist are liars. They are unable to determine who is an adult (migrants even lie about their age too). It does not matter anyway because the ISIS has kid soldiers too. Migrants lie about everything.
European common sense = Mr Orban.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 12:50 PM CEST

Milton38

He is a realist. What he says is absolutely correct. Without 7 million North-African Muslims France would have no terrorist threat – at least not from them.
German internal security experts talk about a possible 400 hard-core islamic terrorists in the country. It took them almost 28 years to get rid of the RAF, a group of at most thirty people. It does not bode well for Mrs Merkel and her party.
I do not trust Putin, as an ex-KGB man his ties to organized crime are too possible. The spooks like to have contact to the organized crime groups, since these offer good avenues for shady dealings in drugs, arms and counterfeit money – and of course information. It is no surprise that the head of IS is rumored to be an ex Saddam secret service operator, thus his good contacts to people who can sell oil, purchase weapons for him and sell women. Another over-sight by the Americans; or their intelligence services let him go on purpose. And let’s not forget that Numero Uno terrorist in Iraq was for many years a staunch ally of the US of A.
That this Al-Baghdadi he is a radical Islamist is doubtful; under Saddam he wouldn’t have lasted very long.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 12:59 PM CEST

calcul

Orban attempts to build his reign on his small nation’s age-old dream to become big and mighty. He resorts to blatant lies and twists the facts at will to achieve his goals. Would a journalist ask him to please spell out in detail where exactly he wants Hungary to be a decade from now? I bet his answer (which he will NEVER give) would be an eye opener even for his diehard supporters….

Posted on 11/23/15 | 1:08 PM CEST

Liza

Where is my previous comment? I did not use bad language! Oh, I was not politically correct, am I right?

Posted on 11/23/15 | 1:35 PM CEST

Gábor Pető

@Patrick Worms: Sorry but I have to disagree with you.
“.. is anything but factually true” – Why? Did French, Belgian, German people commited suicide bombings, and shot people in Paris? No. They were terrorists, and as stated they immigrated from the countries in question. So they were migrants. And what if they didn’t arrive this year but a few years ago? Yeah, you can say that they aren’t migrants, but but they were. This is just semantics. I’m not saying it’s a stigma that you carry your whole life, but still you are an immigrant if you leave for an other country to create a new life there.
About media freedoms. I see that you have no idea about the media in Hungary, you just state the facts that you hear from news channels, and don’t really read about it in more sources. All news from Hungary has been distorted by the international media, to feed people false infromation about the events in Hungary this summer. I have an advice for you, don’t believe everything you hear and know to be true. Question everything, and check multiple sources, and make up your own mind

Posted on 11/23/15 | 1:36 PM CEST

maybe

Though I support Orban’s stance on migration and particularly the harebrained quote system, he is only half right about migration as the cause of terrorism. There’s only an indirect link.
First, the over one million so called “refugees” who have arrived to the EU recently put the intelligence community under immense pressure. Controlling, identifying and managing this mass has become almost impossible and poses a real threat to our security as our services are in no position to do their jobs.
Second, it is highly likely that the new wave will breed another generation of immigrants with little or no integration, which is as we already see the perfect hotbed for more terrorism.
Third, the re-settlement of millions of Muslim Arabs in the EU (the direction where Merkel’s and the EU’s policies seem to go) will inevitably lead to drastic reactions by those who oppose the Islamisation of their home countries. Now it’s Islamic terror in the focus but just wait until the extremists on both the right and left will join the show.
Bottomline: yes there is a connection between Muslim immigrants and terror but not exactly in the way Orban sees it.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 1:38 PM CEST

Gábor Pető

calcul

Liza: You say “European common sense = Mr Orban”.

Orban’s track record should not be judged on the basis of his approach to the issue of migration alone (NB: in this field he claims to protect the EU’s interests and enforce its rules while in the same breath he argues for a stronger role for national sovereignty – go figure). The way he has managed to enforce his distorted view of democracy in Hungary would hardly be acceptable in other developed European countries. Cronyism, corruption, embezzlement and a single-party rule do not tend to be attractive to voters there. Throw all this into the equation – and you’ll find a “toxic European leader”.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 2:06 PM CEST

calcul

@Gabor Peto: “All news from Hungary has been distorted by the international media, to feed people false information about the events in Hungary this summer” – versus “question everything”.

Your first quote is the mantra of the ruling Fidesz party’s politicians. The gist of their message is that the whole world is wrong, misinformed and misled by the evil opposition when it comes to covering the developments in Hungary. A time-honoured method.

Your second quote (“question everything”) is interesting (dare I say weird) in this context. Would you yourself venture to question ANYTHING that comes out of Orban’s propaganda machinery? Might help, I’d say.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 2:34 PM CEST

Anders Dahl

I love Orban. I like how he sends the extreme left into a collective apoplexy.

Everyone with half a brain can perceive the fact that radical Islamic terrorists have immigrant background. But things are only going to get worse and worse — but not in Hungary.

jhbuil

Individuals that pepper their writing with quotation marks and interjections, generally have something to conceal.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 3:01 PM CEST

Bela Horvath

@calcul
I am happy to be able to read Hungarian, German and English news – in comparison to German media there is a higher press freedom in Hungary. In both countries you will not find a neutral, critical to all sides tv, radio or newspapers, but at least in Hungary you will find from very right to very left everything. If it is not in one tv you will see it on an other channel. If you listen and read to both sides – you will have an idea about truth. While in Germany 80-90% of the reporters are on the left (sometimes very left) side. ARD brings factual lies, watching “Nachrichten” is worse than it was during the communist regime – and the majority of the Germans are not thinking but believing everything they hear, like they did 80 years ago…

Posted on 11/23/15 | 3:15 PM CEST

mike

The whole concept of a ‘country’ is for the people within the boundaries of a geographical region to do what is best for their own survival. They take into account what natural resources they have, water supply, drainage, electric supply, and food production based on those resources, as well as the protection of their history, ethnicity and culture. The EU throws all of that away and demands member ‘countries’ ignore what is in their own best interest. Creating a homogeneous culture and ethnicity prevents hurt feelings and so the possibility of war the PC say. In reality it causes people to lose their self respect, their identity and individualism. Creativity is squelched. The EU is nothing but a bland blob of self righteous xenophobes that are afraid of the individualism that would arise if European countries retained strong ethnic and cultural identities.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 3:29 PM CEST

Winston Bela

He might have been wrong a generation ago when there were native terrorists killing people in the name of communism and anarchy, but with the exception of Basque separatists, today’s terrorists are all imports from the heart of Islam, the Middle East and North Africa. Whether they just arrived this fall, or arrived decades ago, they are not traditional native Europeans but Islamists with the goal of bringing down a western way of life and supplanting it with sharia.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 3:39 PM CEST

Drew

Reading on Orbán bashing liberals is always entertaining. The basic obligation of any state (be it totalitarian, monarchy, democracy or whatever) is to provide security to its people. Today there are high concerns whether European states are capable of that at all, not least because they allow in hundreds of thousands unregistered. Worse, some (left and liberal) politicians are specifically advocating this uncontrolled inflow and criticize Orbán for sticking to a sane approach and to the obligation all governments have toward their people and should respect!

Posted on 11/23/15 | 3:55 PM CEST

calcul

@Bela Horvath
Press freedom is a tricky beast. In what I would describe as a healthy society, people generally understand that the press is there to help THEM. The press is THEIR source of information, it’s there for THEM to learn about the world. Accordingly, they recognise the need for them to protect the freedom and integrity of the press, and they generally side with the media (as such) rather than with the powers that be. They do this despite all the efforts by the latter to discredit the press (“they spread lies”, etc) and/or to exercise a controlling influence over the media outlets.

By definition, all publications are opinionated one way or another – but the bulk of those who live in a healthy society are able to see the difference between information and propaganda despite the political rulers’ efforts to disguise propaganda as information. More importantly, they resist attempts by the governing parties (whoever they are) to monopolise the flow of – and the access to – information.

Weirdly enough, in Hungary the pro-Fidesz part of the population appears to support the government’s desperate drive to rein in the press. Its methods are manifold, ranging from ruthless smear campaigns (“these journos are liars”) and existential pressure (“self-censorship”) to blatant theft (see how 888.hu appeared out of nowhere to use public money for discrediting 444.hu, index.hu and the others).

So, yes, the press is meant to serve the public – but in Hungary the broad public seems to allow (and even expect) the press to serve the government. Fringe publications of all colors exist, yes, but they struggle to survive in the shadow of the government’s publicly financed media machinery. To quote you, this indeed is worse than it was during the communist regime.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:03 PM CEST

zoe

Groundskeeper Willie, you liberals want to destroy Europe and can not accept other view as you do. How dare you are to declare that you have right opinion?

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:09 PM CEST

zoe

calcul,Orban has more supporters he has 2\3 majority of parliament. Migration policy 80percent supported by the people….:))

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:15 PM CEST

zoe

calcul,in Germany ARD,and ZDF is own by government……and can not comment your opinion freely without a fear you gonna get kick out of your work…. censoring machine: Heiko Maas….

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:20 PM CEST

Joe

@ Youngeuropeans. You are right, not all migrants are terrorists. And only a small percentage of Syrians support ISIS or Nusra, yet they now control most of the country. This is exactly what Orban is all about, reality. And reality is that Europe taking in a few million Muslims every year will only lead to it importing the problems of the ME into their own house. Let us just look at how many European citizens joined ISIS. If the 6,000 number is correct, it means they make up 10% of the ISIS fighting force, while European Muslims only make up 2% of the global Muslim population. I think when they will reach 20% of the EU population, which will happen within two decades unless Europeans will wake up and put an end to this fiasco, they will no longer travel elsewhere to join jihadist groups, they will form jihadist militias in Europe. And even as they will, we will still be able to say that most Muslims in Europe are good, decent people, but what difference will it make?

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:29 PM CEST

BH

@calcul
you are right, press freedom is tricky. But unfortunately you did not understand what I was saying – I try again.

1. In Hungary there is bigger press freedom than in Germany or UK (just see the manipulated photos from the mainstream media in those countries)

2. In Hungary the central media (tv radio) was always driven by the actual government. Interestingly until MSzP and SzDSz kept them in their hand it was no problem. But as Fidesz changed from left to right it started to disturb the Western politicians.

3. It is less dangerous in Hungary as most of the people learned to question what they hear and read while the majority of British and German population just believe what they hear in BBC and ARD.

I do not like that situation in these three countries, but Hungary is the less problem from them.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:30 PM CEST

calcul

@zoe
“…you liberals want to destroy Europe and can not accept other view as you do…”

What if I respond by saying that you conservatives want to destroy Europe and can not accept the others’ views?

Sorry to say but this summary statement of yours is shallow, groundless and stupid even. This is not an argument – you simply stigmatise a segment of your own society, apparently believing that by repeating this mantra over and over again you will gain the upper hand.

You will not.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:30 PM CEST

eli

I think Orban is right. The pale EU bureaucrats do not know anything about reality and politics, and pretend they can run the system instead of nation-states. They do not have legitimacy to do that. Instead, leades who do dare to speak up, such as Orban, are declared “dictators” in order to continue with the dangerous ideology of progressive left. We should go back to democracy at national levels and cut the Commission from the political power, since they pretend to have competences which belong to nation-states. In the EU small and medium nation-states are downplayed and are not equal to big MS who run the show. You cannot hide this fact with ideology of political correctness. We need more political leaders such as Orban in Europe to bring back democracy to its people.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:34 PM CEST

Rickster

I am with my fellow Magyar! If you aren’t able to see that islamic muslims do not want to assimilate into western culture you have to be blind.

someone should e mail this story to the white house. how did the terrorist get to these countries if they are not migrants?

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:37 PM CEST

San

Oh sweet Hungary. You guys are like Iowans. So worried about terrorism, but no one actually cares enough about you to make you a target.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:40 PM CEST

calcul

@BH
Thanks for explaining. But let’s just stick to the case of Hungary (rather than going down the usual route of “yes, there is corruption in Hungary, but other countries are just as corrupt” or, to cite the old joke, “yes, we have problems, but in Amerika they beat up the blacks”).

2. “…as Fidesz changed from left to right it started to disturb the Western politicians”. If you believe that interference by the previous ruling parties was bad – why on Earth are you so receptive to the exact same ambition of Fidesz? If you criticise the Socialists and the Free Democrats, wouldn’t it be only normal for you to be similarly critical of Fidesz if they follow in the footsteps of their arch-rivals?

3. “…most of the people learned to question what they hear and read”. You can’t be serious….

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:42 PM CEST

Aleric

Have to love all the Leftist Liberal Commenters on this site who even with the Terrorists deeds staring them in the face can sit there and lie with total abandon about how the Terrorists are not Arabs with ties to Radical Islam. These same fools said the Twin Towers bombings in the 90s was a freak occurrence and could never happen again. You live in your fantasy world the rest of us will live in REALITY and take the steps necessary to protect our country and our citizens.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:46 PM CEST

calcul

@eli
Just a minor but very important point: the EU is NOT run by “pale EU bureaucrats”. At the end of the day, all the decisions (every single one of them) are made by the 28 leaders of the 28 individual member states. This is called the Council of the EU. The “bureaucrats” at the European Commission propose – but do not decide.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:46 PM CEST

Zoli

Patrick!
Orban did not say that all the migrants are terrorists. He was saying that all the terrorists are migrants. Because all the terrorists are muslim extremists /I hope we can agree on that/, we can conclude that they were immigrants to Europe at one point. Muslims were never been part of Western Europe’s core population. I do not think you could trace back any of the Parisian terrorists’ background to Napoleon….

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:49 PM CEST

lyt

Aren’t many blonde haired blue eyed terrorists around these days.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 4:51 PM CEST

simonr

Orban has a callous disregard for truth; he much prefers misleading or false populist sound-bites.
“All the terrorists are basically migrants.” Oh yeah? Most of the Paris killers were born in Europe. Anders Breivik, killer of 77, is a native Norwegian. Never mind European separatist groups like the IRA, ETA, and the FLNC. In both Europe and the US, most terrorist attacks are committed by non-muslims. Orban should be ashamed, he is a disgrace and a threat to European values.

calcul

@Aleric
I’m not sure who you’re referring to when you talk about people who “lie with total abandon about how the Terrorists are not Arabs with ties to Radical Islam”. The terrorists implicated in these recent brutal acts were indeed Arabs with ties to radical Islam – this is a fact, which no one in his right mind would question.

However, those “leftist liberal commenters” whom you so much love question the conclusion that ALL Muslims/Arabs are potential terrorists. Which they are clearly not.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 5:02 PM CEST

DeMolayTx9

True, Europol shows a low number of Islamic attacks, so far, relative to separatist attacks. But if you actually read the text, and not just a graph or two, the overall subject of growing concern and trending is about Islamic jihad. The report also shows more than half of all terrorism arrests in 2014 were for “religiously inspired” offenses (a.k.a., Islamic). These include weapons charges, violent Jihad propaganda materials, and conspiracy to commit violence. The fact that few of their plans thus far have been successful should not give you great comfort. Read the report here: https://www.europol.europa.eu/content/european-union-terrorism-situation-and-trend-report-2015

Posted on 11/23/15 | 5:04 PM CEST

Peter Winter

Europe and the EU are in serious trouble and Mr Orban is part of the problem not part of the solution.
Muslims have been in Europe since hundreds of years, millions of recent Muslim immigrant Turks in Germany since the 1960s, same with Algerians in France. The obvious “logic” of Mr Orban’s statements is simply juvenile and meaningless. And it is nothing but a political excuse to refuse entry to refugees (Muslim or any other kind for that matter, just like countries like Poland) with the ultimate goal to not be EUropean. And yes, as a comment below suggested sarcastically, countries like Hungary and Poland should indeed leave the EU. It can’t be a one-way road (to Germany). They have collected 100s of millions of Euros from the EU but than turn around and undermine it anyway they can for purely domestic political reasons.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 5:11 PM CEST

Veritas-Semper

Finally, an interview by Politico that appears to be balanced. It does provide a much better perspective to the general audience on Mr. Orban. He actually appears to be exactly what he says, straightforward. Something that is anathema to the Brussels crowd, which views political correctness above all, even if it puts everyone in the general population in danger and Europe on direct course with suicide.

Fortunately, there are key leaders like Mr. Orban in Hungary and Mr. Kaczynski in Poland who are exposing the suicidal policies of Brussels and the shaking foundations of the ‘Grand European Project’.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 5:12 PM CEST

DeZapp

“Thinking of Paris and its aftermath, the Hungarian leader posits an “overwhelming logical” connection between terrorism and the movement of Muslims into Europe — in the last few months as well as over recent decades — that to him and many Europeans is “an obvious fact,” whether “you like it or not.”

BINGO!, as an American I APPLAUD you for trying to keep your country safe, and European not Islamic.
Our leader is doing his best to destroy our nations fabric and importing terror as fast as he can.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 5:16 PM CEST

calcul

@Veritas-Semper
Those “suicidal policies” are conceived and decided IN Brussels, but not BY Brussels. If Orban is the legitimate leader of Hungary (which he is), the same applies to the leaders of all the other 27 member states of the EU. It is these 28 leaders who make all the decisions. The problem is that quite often they fail to come to terms with each other, since (for gazillion different reasons) they pull different ways. For now at least, Orban remains in minority with his views. This is not Brussels’ failure.

As for “shaking the foundations of the grand European project” – is this good news for you? And what exactly would Orban, Kaczynski and the likes offer instead?

Posted on 11/23/15 | 5:40 PM CEST

Redbird 25

Our terrorist is in the White House.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 5:47 PM CEST

Tom

My hat off to Mr. Orban, a true European statesman. He speaks truth in very clear words.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 5:50 PM CEST

MatH

To continue Mr. Orbán’s line: All politicians are corrupted. All media are lying. All people who finished more than primary school are privileged. All people living in capital are stilling from the others. All women are paid less because they work less. All children are just expense for the nation. All people above 60 are living at the expense of the others. All homosexuals are bringing diseases. All Hungarians are criminals and prostitutes.
One can write lots of “orban-istic facts”.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 6:07 PM CEST

dennis

It only took 8 Islamic terrorists to bring France to its knees so by the French being seen as weak and unable to defend themselves they have put all of the EU in danger of being attacked,the only ones who will be spared attacks by the Muslims will be the Swiss because they have an armed society and they are very good with their firearms, going after Switzerland would be suicide so the Muslims will go after the softer targets.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 6:07 PM CEST

MatH

Ancestors of Hungarians migrated to Europe a while ago. Terrorists?!?

Posted on 11/23/15 | 6:09 PM CEST

shane

“migrants are terrorists” isn’t saying “terrorists are migrants” , when the 2 phrases are presented or inferred as equal therein lies the infection political correctness creates. the terrorism that exists now is in direct correlation to the infux of international immigration that exists now, saying otherwise is laughable

Posted on 11/23/15 | 6:20 PM CEST

Anne Pierret

Too right he is. But Schengen is actually just another word for constant danger and the failure to protect tax paying citizens. Close Brussels down for good and start implementing politics that lead to higher birth rates for God’s Sake. Tip: not to be found using gender theories.
Otherwise our societies will fail and there will be borderless terror and Civil wars.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 6:23 PM CEST

Nearboston

Let the women and children in – if they have some kind of useable skill.

Arm up the males aged 16 to 60 and send them back to liberate their homes.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 7:06 PM CEST

charlie-papa

Europe once had a Hitler and price paid – cannot afford more nazi, fasist and racist
paesano country boy shud visit a shrink for his phobias

ps…better stop critisizing comments

Posted on 11/23/15 | 7:26 PM CEST

Juanita Broaddrick's Lip

And vice-versa?

Posted on 11/23/15 | 7:35 PM CEST

Dahun

I can speak of from my Hungarian heritage (I’m American BTW).
It took all of Europe 2000 years to arrive at the borders and segregation they have now. And these borders have served them well in keeping foreigners out for hundreds of years not counting major wars.
This notion that they have to be “inclusive” “accepting” of other people is a new notion developed by the liberals who have “white guilt” for “all the evils the white man imposed on the world”. Terrorists and Islamic immigrants have NO INTEREST in becoming westernized as that would be against their religion and allah. Yet they demand that westerners accept them and their ways. In the last 2-3 decades, the major source of terrorism has been islamists immigrants or homegrown from immigrants.
So he is not incorrect to say that immigrants have been the source of terrorists. Demonizing people that speak the uncouth is another liberal way of debate when no argument can be made.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 7:41 PM CEST

Eugene kelly

Too bad the USA cannot have an intelligent, Western-oriented president like Orban. instead, we have a US-hating Marxist liberal, who is in over his head.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 7:59 PM CEST

Dahun

I’m speaking with my heritage being Hungarian…. I’m and American.
It took all of Europe 2000 years to arrive at the borders and segregation they have now. And these borders have served them well in keeping foreigners out for hundreds of years not counting major wars.
This notion that they have to be “inclusive” “accepting” of other people is a new notion developed by the liberals who have “white guilt” for “all the evils the white man imposed on the world”. Terrorists and Islamic immigrants have NO INTEREST in becoming westernized as that would be against their religion and allah. Yet they demand that westerners accept them and their ways. In the last 2-3 decades, the major source of terrorism has been islamists immigrants or homegrown from immigrants.
So he is not incorrect to say that immigrants have been the source of terrorists. Demonizing people that speak the uncouth is another liberal way of debate when no argument can be made.

People are ANGRY and DO NOT want all those new, useless, bigoted men here and it’s COMPLETELY unnecessary!

HUMANE MIGRATION:

Muslims share religion, customs, mores, values and often language. It is more humane to send them to Muslim countries. Why is Europe on the brink – yet we hear NOTHING about the Muslim nations.

Why don’t these people help? Japan has donated more money than Saudi Arabia – of course that’s a pay off – they REFUSE to have the migrants in Japan, they want to preserve their way of life. THEY AREN’T STUPID like us . . .

Roman F. Wilkekowski

Arpad Kovacs

As far as I know ALL of the perps ofy these terrorist attack are Moslems. Basically all of them are immigrants or sometimes their children. So what are we talking about? Orban is right about securing the Schengen- borders, and Hungary is upholding the EU law.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 9:57 PM CEST

Anti-Assad Propaganda

Politicians are exploiting Terrorism and Refugees to generate Paranoia and Fear.

They are doing this to secure billions in Domestic Surveillance and Spying contracts.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 10:06 PM CEST

Tom

Barry Wendell Jackson, Esq.

Patrick Worms, you say that more than 98% of terrorists are not migrants. So they are Europeans and visitors, tourists and such? I find that hard to believe.
I have a much different take on the problem.

I am not Politically Correct. I believe there is great value in Nationalism and Patriotism. And in competition among Nations. And in national cultures. The movement to “Unify” Europe will, a century from now, be seen as a grievous error, imposed by Elites who were seeking power, and not the common welfare. The EU needs to be disbanded. Diplomacy has its place, but not a Multicultural Monstrosity. Our Rulers, the Global Oligarchs, have no Patriotism, and consider themselves Citizens of the World. They support “unification”, as it helps them govern. It suppresses democracy and the independence of nations. There are peaceful Muslims in Europe, like the Turks in Germany, who were invited, and are clearly now German. They sought and most appear to have achieved assimilation and acculturation.

And there are other peaceful Muslims, including the form headed by the only descendant of Mahommed, the Aga Khan. These are the Shia Ismaili Muslims, wwwdottheismailidotorg. They easily integrate. Another are those of the Ahmadiyyah Muslim Community, wwwdotahmadiyyadotus. They also easily integrate. There are a few small groups that also do, including the Alawite and the Druze. There are others that are peaceful but do not generally aculturate, assimilate, or integrate. But Islamists are not peaceful. Many, if not all, are Sunni Salafists (the dominant form in Saudi Arabia.) Salafists (aka Wahhabists, but not by adherents) consider Shia Muslims to be Apostates, and deserving of assassination. And over recent decades they have assassinated millions of Shia Muslims. And they have been conducting World War III since before their attack on September 11, 2001. Their enemies are all of the rest of us, including Muslims! But they give Christians three alternatives. 1. Convert to Salafism. 2. Continue to practice Christianity, provided they voluntarily “submit” and pay the “tax” required of all infidels. 3. Be assassinated. Fair, right?

So, Christians need to know who are assimilating, who are only, but at least, peaceful, and who are our enemies, seeking to kill us.
But at this time, Christians are nearly all OBLIVIOUS!

Posted on 11/23/15 | 10:08 PM CEST

Analytics

Seriously, we need more leaders like Orban and less ones like (unelected, no-mandate) Juncker. Orban is the only leader at EU who has acted in responsible way and by the EU lawbook in illegal immigrants crisis. Merkel, Tsipras, Faymann etc. all huge epic fails.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 10:08 PM CEST

Arpad Kovacs

And about media freedom in Hungary: those of us who speak Hungarian can see that Orban and his party of YOUNG DEMOCRATS are severely attacked in the opposition media, which is .most of the print and online media. And let’s not forget: Hungary has a very strong right wing opposition which think Orban is too liberal!

Posted on 11/23/15 | 10:24 PM CEST

calcul

@Analytics
Orban could not care less about the EU’s lawbook. It was very likely by sheer accident that he (or his minions) realized that he could victoriously sell his anti-migration stance to the masses by claiming to strictly abide by the Union’s rules. Orban notoriously violates or simply ignores the EU’s rules – this counts as a exception. Except that… he raised that fence, left the neighboring countries in the lurch, and argued for an intervention along Greece’s sea borders in which Hungary could or would have no role to play at all.

Has he solved the problem? No. Has he pulled out from the EU’s cooperation framework? Yes. Has he fueled hatred against the migrants and xenophobia along the way? Yes indeed.

You say “we need” such leaders. Well, wherever you are – just take him.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 10:27 PM CEST

Tom

Dear Censors!
So much about the free speech…

Posted on 11/23/15 | 10:44 PM CEST

Eduardo

Orban is a hero for all of Europe, the United States, Canada and the Western World.

Sorry you foaming at the mouth leftists, the civilized world in on to your shenanigans.

Posted on 11/23/15 | 11:23 PM CEST

majki

Calcul you can take a break now, we would like to see other comments too. Or at least change your nick.

Posted on 11/24/15 | 12:14 AM CEST

Eager Beagle

I trust Orban and I distrust the likes of Merkel. Just a gut feeling…

Posted on 11/24/15 | 12:35 AM CEST

Nick

If you Europeans think Orban is too illiberal for your tastes, how will you enjoy life under Islamic rule: women in headscarves, no alcoholic beverages, no concerts, no culture whatsoever to speak of. The truth is, many of the self-professed “liberals” are actually authoritarians who just want to control their fellow man and thus admire that aspect of Daech.

Posted on 11/24/15 | 12:51 AM CEST

John F Edwards

Quite frankly, it seems like Europe would benefit from having more individuals like Mr. Orban, not less!

He brings a lot of clarity to the issue of Borders which were originally put there for a purpose, maybe it time to go back to the tried and true Borders of the past!

Posted on 11/24/15 | 12:56 AM CEST

Arpad Kovacs

Those of us who speak Hungarian can see that Orban and his party of YOUNG DEMOCRATS are severely attacked in the opposition media, which is .most of the print and online media. And let’s not forget: Hungary has a very strong right wing opposition which think Orban is too liberal! He is exactly the person the nation needs at this time. Just look at France and Belgium. The let terrorists into the country and the day of reckoning is yet to come!

Posted on 11/24/15 | 1:40 AM CEST

SKBarczy

This was actually a really enlightening look into his mindset. I have to admit, once you take away the partisan lens that journalists on both sides of the aisle have tried to view him through, you find a man with a hard, but realistic view of the world.

groundkeeperwillie

calcul

@Majki
Thanks for your advice, Majki. This field is open to all – and there’s no obligation to read all the comments. Sorry, deal with it. 🙂

Posted on 11/24/15 | 9:35 AM CEST

Observer

Mr. Kaminski,
You’ve done a good job of conveying to your readers what Orbán wanted you to. This, however, is far from the true situation in Hungary.
Refugees/immigrants question notwithstanding, Orban’s rule is a „dictatorship light” + total political corruption at higher levels, the latter reminiscent of Latin America in the 1960s.
If you care to inform your readers of the situation you could have quoted Orban’s derogative statements about democracy, about him feeling more at home in Kazakhstan than in Europe, about his call to honor (the late dictator and former KGB chief of Azerbaijan) Haidari Aliev, etc. etc.
You could mention that Orban’s performance of this interview might have been just another “peacock dance” (to use Orban’s phrase) for gullible western journalists, with the usual mix of half-truths and bold lies. You could have taken Orban’s advise, when entangled in contradictory statements and lies, he told foreign diplomats “Don’t listen to what I say, watch what I am doing”.
Finally some details that stand out – a heap of books on Orban’s desk, Habermas … please. It is well known that the man doesn’t read. Doesn’t use a computer. Not only because a PM hasn’t much time for reading, but Orbán doesn’t have the patience even for a discussion (he reduced the number of ministers in order to deal with only about 5-6 of them and let them pass the orders down to the secretariats, as the former ministries are now called).
To all praising the Hungarian dictator, let me remind you that the Italians paid a very price for their trains running on time, and the Germans for the new freeways, courtesy of Messrs. Mussolini and Hitler respectively.

Posted on 11/24/15 | 4:59 PM CEST

dunroamin

Ambassador Colleen Bell is an ex-Hollywood producer, in other words a luvvie with zero understanding of the real world. Luvvies and pop stars are always on the wrong side of history.

Orban is very polite when he compares reality-based and principle-based relations. Merkel and the multi-culti loonies are off with the fairies; in their case the correct label is fantasy-based relations.

He is also right about Political Correctness. Future historians will struggle to explain this mass delusion which is comparable with the witch-hunts of the middle ages.

Posted on 11/24/15 | 8:57 PM CEST

zoeo

shane,really? First hungarians,magyars came 1000 years ago….so you say that everybody has a right just walk across a green border and occupy any country what he wants…. great idea….can we occupy your country? You say no borders,and the country does not have any right for its field??? I think you have serious problem….

Posted on 11/24/15 | 11:01 PM CEST

TR

Patrick,
Obviously, not all migrants are terrorists,
BUT, all terrorists are (or have been) migrants.
Keep re-reading that until it makes sense to you
Also, if the # is less than 2% it’s still much much higher than 0 which is already way too much.

Posted on 11/24/15 | 11:14 PM CEST

George Tyrebyter

Thank goodness for a clear-eyed person like Mr. Orban. The right wing is rising in Europe. There is a tide of invaders which has no limit. It will take a strong man to stop this unarmed invasion. Hopefully, the strong man will not be a fascist. But if the invasion continues like it has, fascism will come to Europe. This is inevitable, and the reason is the immigration. It must be stopped, and it must be stopped now.

Posted on 11/25/15 | 3:35 AM CEST

Andy Hockley

You could equally argue that “All Hungarians are Migrants”.

Posted on 11/25/15 | 2:31 PM CEST

Birkozo

It seems that most European politicians are senile. The biggest enemy is Merkel whose real name is “Mer nem kell” for which the answer is obvious. The people of Europe must wake up and send all the invaders back to where they come from, before Europe suffers an un-repairable damage. To hell with idiotic politiciens and “dobaders” People will get so fed up that they will welcome a Hitler, who will have no axe to grind against the Jews but against the invaders. Merkel and the other criminals whose object is to destroy Europe should be jailed for life or sent to a lunatic asylum. But who started the whole problem: the Bushes. The US had no reason to interfere in the Middle East. Unfortunately they do not seem to understand anything about world politics.

Posted on 12/3/15 | 6:27 PM CEST

PSzG

“Patrick Worms”: You mean Ali born in Sweden, Hassan from Brussels and Farook grown up in Paris? As non migrants?