I was playing CV yesterday and I was just practicing so I was throwing multiple discs from the tee. Well, on hole 5, I smashed the chains with a PD. It did not stick but I wondered if people would have considered it an ace or not. Also, I was curious if anyone would mark their disc in any way for their cubby ace as some people would call it.

Personally, I feel like aces or getting 2's or 3's should only count (get on CV ace hall of fame for instance) if you play the hole or ace the hole with the first drive off the tee. For instance, I have 3'd hole 18 at CV but I threw two drives off the tee and played the second one so I did not have it put on the CV ace wall of fame. If I remember correctly, it seems like there are rules at otter creek if you want to put your name on the ace list there. The rules are something like you have to be playing a round and ace it on your first drive off the tee.

I have my opinions on the matter but I just wondered what other people thought. DISCuss.

captain plastic

01-06-2012, 10:19 AM

Not an ace in my book. Others would certainly
count this. This is just my opinion of course.

jeremy

01-06-2012, 10:28 AM

I consider an ace to be a shot that I retrive from the bottom of the basket after my first and ONLY drive on that hole. Even in leagues I've ran, if you're playing as the muligan man and you hit an "ace" on your second shot from the tee you only get HALF of the ace pool.

I've "aced" several shots during practice throws. I can't even imagine how many I've had hit the chains and fall out. Actually, I "aced" old #8 at Otter Creek with a practice, second shot about a year before I got my REAL first ace. If I counted every bounce out and second shot "ace" I would have close to 100 aces by now I'm sure. I had one on #18 at Muldraugh that stuck into the side of the catching portion of the basket. As I aproached the basket and reached for my disc (my hand was, LITTERALLY, inches away) it spit out and fell to the ground. I don't count it.

I do NOT believe that you need to play a whole round to count an ace. I've counted several aces where I was only playing a few holes during lunch or a warm-up hole before a tourny. But, again, I only threw ONE shot from the tee.

Mike_D

01-06-2012, 10:39 AM

Like the only ace i ever got was on the old practice hole at I.Q. I through a couple of the tee & nailed 1 ( don't count ) why don't i count 1 cause it was NOT in my 18 hole game & 1 it was 1 of many thrown from that Tee

LtDan914

01-06-2012, 10:50 AM

I was not saying would you count the chain out. I was saying would you count it if it actually stuck. Just to clear things up if someone misread what I posted.

jeremy

01-06-2012, 11:09 AM

Like the only ace i ever got was on the old practice hole at I.Q. I through a couple of the tee & nailed 1 ( don't count ) why don't i count 1 cause it was NOT in my 18 hole game & 1 it was 1 of many thrown from that Tee
I aced the old practice basket at Iroquois during a round with a friend. We played through the practice hole just as if the course was a 19 hole course. I count it. But, again, it was my first and only shot on that hole during that round. If I threw more than one drive from the tee...I would NOT have counted it.

Also, again, I still count an ace EVEN IF I don't play all 18 holes. I played as few as six holes and counted an ace that I hit during that time. I don't see how playing fewer holes than the course has positively influences your likelihood of getting an ace. If anything it decreases your likelihood of getting one due to the fact that you're playing fewer holes and therefore makes it more special.

Mike_D

01-06-2012, 11:10 AM

IF it was your 1st throw at that Tee in your full round then YES

jeremy

01-06-2012, 11:20 AM

IF it was your 1st throw at that Tee in your full round then YES
Why do you specify a "full round"? As I said in my last post, I disagree that you would have to play a full round to record an ace. Why do you believe you need to log an entire round for the ace to count?

Great discusion.

Mike_D

01-06-2012, 11:24 AM

I was just saying I only count it when I ace in a round of play. Not just throwing on random holes for say practice

jeremy

01-06-2012, 11:32 AM

Hey, that just made me think? Where is the practice basket at Iroquois? There used to be 19 baskets and now there are only 18. Where is the 19th basket?

Mike_D

01-06-2012, 11:38 AM

The blue print for the new course had it over between hole 18 & the closed road in the park

I think i heard something about it being put up soon but by tee pad 1

WHo knows i been wondering if we will ever see a new post up board or if they ever plan to pull the old tee sign poles they are not using

jeremy

01-06-2012, 12:05 PM

Cool. Didn't mean to hyjack the thread that just came to mind so I thought I'd ask.

Back to the question at hand...I'm curious WHY you wouldn't count an ace that you received during a round of few than 18 holes? Just for discusion sake.

jobwilson82

01-06-2012, 12:28 PM

I believe it has been answered, but I will give my two cents regarding Mulligan Man Aces.

My thinking is if it goes on your card as a 1, then it's an Ace. So, if your second throw goes in as Mulligan Man, I would count it. In fact, we had a similar situation happen at our Ice Bowl last year. Matt Watson was teeing off on 13 Short at Mesker. He bought a couple mulligans I believe and wound up dropping one. He got the full ace pot.

Maybe it should be an Ace*. Not as awesome as an Ace straight up, but much more awesome than a Cubby Ace.

jobwilson82

01-06-2012, 12:29 PM

Also, this counts as an Ace.

421

jeremy

01-06-2012, 12:36 PM

My thinking is if it goes on your card as a 1, then it's an Ace. So, if your second throw goes in as Mulligan Man, I would count it. In fact, we had a similar situation happen at our Ice Bowl last year. Matt Watson was teeing off on 13 Short at Mesker. He bought a couple mulligans I believe and wound up dropping one. He got the full ace pot.
Yeah...I wouldn't have counted it AND he wouldn't have gotten the full ace pot from me if I had been running the event. Half of the pot would have gone to the charity. How fair is it if someone else had gotten an ace on their one, and only, shot on that hole yet he was able to take multiple shots at it and cash in just the same? BUT that is STRICTLY my opinion and I ALWAYS anounced that at any event I ran where muligans may be thrown.

Daniel

01-06-2012, 01:30 PM

But, isn't mulligan man in the truest sense, someone whose partner is himself? So, he would get two shots just like his competition. So, if my partner missed an ace and I hit it, I only get half the ace pool? No, I get it all. Thus, I think regardless of when the ace is hit on mulligans, mulligan man should get 100% of the ace pool. Just seems fair.

OTOH, of course your second shot is "better" because of the "practice" you got from the first shot. I think, in most instances, it's negligible. Maybe it's just me.

jeremy

01-06-2012, 02:24 PM

But, isn't mulligan man in the truest sense, someone whose partner is himself? So, he would get two shots just like his competition. So, if my partner missed an ace and I hit it, I only get half the ace pool? No, I get it all. Thus, I think regardless of when the ace is hit on mulligans, mulligan man should get 100% of the ace pool. Just seems fair.

OTOH, of course your second shot is "better" because of the "practice" you got from the first shot. I think, in most instances, it's negligible. Maybe it's just me.
You could also aruge that the muligan man only pays half of what every other team would pay to be included into the ace pool which makes only paying half of the pot to them make even more sense.

Also, just as you said, one individual throwing a second shot would be statistically more likely to improve their lie than another individual trying to improve the lie.

Daniel

01-06-2012, 09:31 PM

...but I said that's probably statistically negligible, meaning that the percentage that it is improved is probably not more than a few feet at best. I understand but don't accept the half pay thing. It's just me. It's always up to the discretion of the TD, so I don't have to worry about it! ;)

martin

01-06-2012, 11:41 PM

I consider any shot to be an ace if you tee off from a designated spot and you sink it in the basket in one shot. Round doesnt matter

Not counting upshots just hole layouts

John

01-07-2012, 06:52 AM

You could also aruge that the muligan man only pays half of what every other team would pay to be included into the ace pool which makes only paying half of the pot to them make even more sense.
It shouldn't matter what the team pays as far as ace pool payout goes. Ace pools are an individual achievement.
If my partner did not participate in the ace pool and I did and was fortunate enough to get an ace I would expect a full share of the payout. Most, if not all league events are blind draw doubles. If a person paid their entry fee and added an ace pool dollar to the pot and through the luck of the draw (be it good luck or bad luck) ends up as the mully man, this person has the same investment as every other individual does (exception being those who chose not to participate in the ace pool).
If the mully man in your events turns in the lowest score and finishes first, doe he only collect half of the first place money?
If not, why the inconsistency in the pay out of the round money and the payout of the ace pool money?

jamesmcc

01-07-2012, 10:41 AM

Mully man is his own team but he has not put up the whole team monies for the Ace pool. That being said not all who play doubles would split the ace pool money with their partner. I do but it is the individual that hits the ace. 1st place money is a team effort so any mully man that can beat the field deserves the prize.

G1nked

01-07-2012, 09:47 PM

Aces count regardless of how many holes you play. if I put in for Ace Pool in any tournament or league and throw an Ace on hole one and quit I still get the ace pool so that is the best way I have been explained so I dont agree with full round to count an Ace. I seen Martin throw 4 or 5 discs at Fun Farm and his fifth shot ace it. The island hole at the CVO last year is the basket not sure what # and after he hit it he simply said hes not going to count it because of the previous practice throws after 4 or 5 attempts.

John

01-08-2012, 07:13 AM

Mully man is his own team but he has not put up the whole team monies for the Ace pool. That being said not all who play doubles would split the ace pool money with their partner. I do but it is the individual that hits the ace. 1st place money is a team effort so any mully man that can beat the field deserves the prize.

The ace pool is an individual achievement. If a team agrees to split the ace pool if either one hits it that is between them. None of my aces have come in a league setting. I have been partners with three different people who hit the ace pool and didn't split it. It was never agreed upon, never asked, or never offered. I did benefit from having a 1 on my scorecard.
Not everyone participates in the ace pool. If you were running a league and someone hits an ace whose partner was not part of the pool, would he collect a full share of the payout from the ace pool? I think people are confusing team investment/payout (entry fee) with individual investment/payout (ace pool). No one pays their monies with the intention of being mully man, it just happens.
If the mully man has to pay double for the ace pool to be considered for full payout, that does not seem fair, as again, it is an individual achievement.
As far as percentages increasing for an ace as mully man, I think it is a wash. Mully man may have the opportunity to throw a second drive at the basket, but they are using a different disc and prolly not the first choice to throw on that hole.
It costs everyone the same to enter an ace pool (usually a dollar). Why should a person be penalized just because an odd number of people showed up for league night?
If the logic of total investment of the team gets taken into consideration for pay outs, then if the mully wins the round he should (by that logic) only be entitled to half the first place payout and I don't agree with that either.

jeremy

01-09-2012, 09:18 AM

Good points, John. I did actually used to only pay out one portion of the prize pot to the mully man. Because, again, he only paid one portion. I didn't pay him half of his portion, I paid him half of a "teams" portion. I would throw the other portion in the ace pot. I did eventually change that though and I would pay the full "team" portion to the mully man. It was just a little bonus for the hard work of winning as a lone wolf. The ace pool seems a little more sacred to me though. Everyone invests equally into it throughout the season and everyone has the equal opportunity to get it UNTIL you introduce the mulligan man. Then the mulligan man has an extra opportunity, that he didn't pay for or earn in anyway, that everyone else may not get.

martin

01-09-2012, 10:48 AM

When I played doubles up at Mt. Airy in Cincy a year or two ago - If you were the A pool player (PRO/ADV) and you had drawn the Mully - you could only win half the prize pot unless you doubled your entry fee.

As a Mully man winning the ace pool - you should only be able to win the full ace pool on your first shot - if you take a second drive and ace it - I could see only paying 50% of the ace pool.

Brian Nasty Sanford

01-16-2012, 09:09 PM

Well here is my 2 cents. What if you have been playing leagues and put in for the ace pool everytime throughout the season and you draw the mully and hit the ace why wouldn't you get the full pot? I see it as you are playing the round as a two man team and as a mully you are at a disadvantage. So I think if you hit the ace on the fist or second shot, and you come in first for the round you should get full payout. Just my 2 cents.

tonyscomputery

01-17-2012, 11:55 AM

Good points, John. I did actually used to only pay out one portion of the prize pot to the mully man. Because, again, he only paid one portion. I didn't pay him half of his portion, I paid him half of a "teams" portion. I would throw the other portion in the ace pot. I did eventually change that though and I would pay the full "team" portion to the mully man. It was just a little bonus for the hard work of winning as a lone wolf. The ace pool seems a little more sacred to me though. Everyone invests equally into it throughout the season and everyone has the equal opportunity to get it UNTIL you introduce the mulligan man. Then the mulligan man has an extra opportunity, that he didn't pay for or earn in anyway, that everyone else may not get.

What if the Mully man was given the option to pay an additional $1 to have a chance at the full pot.