With the latest headlines, the Pope (Ratzinger) has declared that "bishops and other high-ranking clerics should report such crimes to police if required by law", quoted from the article on Yahoo news, Vatican makes clear bishops must report sex abuse , does anyone out there want to join me in a little Pope Bashing for fun?

It was the article from the Vatican that the media were on a smear campaign to make the Catholic Church look bad that really caught my interest along with the blind boys who were molested by a priest in Wisconsin over a 20 year period. Ratzinger stopped the investigation into that priest's molestations before he became Pope. The priest died two years later without being exposed for the sick pedophile he was. Why didn't Ratzinger report the priest then?

The 300 blind and deaf children who were molested in Italy did not help the Catholic Church's image when it hit the news. How can the news media be held responsible for a smear campaign that is filled with truth?

Originally posted by LostBaby
My beloved is perfect. He is strong, smart, well read, can & will do anything, tender, and totally adores me. The only thing that could make him better is if he was freak'n wealthy beyond words.

On the floor of a small room near the city wall, they found the source of the many fragments of wisdom this civilization had left the world.
bronzeageworks.blog spot.com

The first defense when someone is accused is "I didn't do it." The second is, "It wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be. You're a sensationalist trying to sell a story, trying to tear me down for personal reasons."

At a certain point the business of media is a business and is trying to sell a story. Most people will believe everything that comes out about someone or a group in the media all the way down to "Saddam Hussein is equivalent to Hitler, that's why we must attack Iraq!" It's been part Pope bashing since he became Pope. Was he a Nazi youth? Was he a protector of child molesters? It's really irrelevant what he is or was, he's either the Pope or the Great Satan depending on which organization you aligned yourself with when you were sixteen or eight or thirty-eight.

I'm not, nor have ever been, Catholic, however bashing someone's religion is rather distasteful to me. Religion is a very personal thing.

I agree, but there is a great difference between respecting someone's religious and ethical beliefs and criticizing the corporate failings of the earthly organizations that claim to represent a perfect deity.

The interpretation is all and I feel the establishment figures of the Catholic church have been shown up to be tainted by the evidence that shows they were prepared to put sheltering pedophile priests ahead of desperately abused and damaged children.

As we rightly attack Muslim repression of women, down to genital mutilation, oppose the Baptist demand to teach Creationism instead of science and struggle within ourselves to find ethical answers to questions of abortion, euthanasia and why the Catholic church condemns so many Africans to an early death by eschewing condoms, I struggle to support the established religions.

Individual faith should have little to do with Cardinal Ratzinger or Osama bin Laden or any crazy Baptist preacher.

Cloudy, the Vatican has been shamed, no-one is dumping on the religion.

I agree, but there is a great difference between respecting someone's religious and ethical beliefs and criticizing the corporate failings of the earthly organizations that claim to represent a perfect deity.

The interpretation is all and I feel the establishment figures of the Catholic church have been shown up to be tainted by the evidence that shows they were prepared to put sheltering pedophile priests ahead of desperately abused and damaged children.

As we rightly attack Muslim repression of women, down to genital mutilation, oppose the Baptist demand to teach Creationism instead of science and struggle within ourselves to find ethical answers to questions of abortion, euthanasia and why the Catholic church condemns so many Africans to an early death by eschewing condoms, I struggle to support the established religions.

Individual faith should have little to do with Cardinal Ratzinger or Osama bin Laden or any crazy Baptist preacher.

Cloudy, the Vatican has been shamed, no-one is dumping on the religion.

I understand, however, the OP invited people to join her in "pope bashing for fun," not a reasonable discussion of the failings of the administration of the RC Church.

There's quite a difference.

__________________Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart," all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart."

From what I read, and please don't quote me, all priestly misconduct went through Ratzinger's office and he knew it all, long before we ever did. Most of it was kept hush hush to protect the church, yes.

But now, the fear of the church's power is waning and people are coming forth with their accounts of being molested.

Is this latest recommendation being given because the Pope knows what else is going to surface in the near future or is he trying to stem the tide?

BTW, Pope Bashing is a term I meant for only this Pope, not the entire Catholic church or its many followers. I question this leader's motives, just like I did with Geo. W.

I am grateful we have a free media that can report these findings so we can learn the truth. I bet the church wishes they could shut everyone up, though.

I agree, but there is a great difference between respecting someone's religious and ethical beliefs and criticizing the corporate failings of the earthly organizations that claim to represent a perfect deity.

The interpretation is all and I feel the establishment figures of the Catholic church have been shown up to be tainted by the evidence that shows they were prepared to put sheltering pedophile priests ahead of desperately abused and damaged children.

As we rightly attack Muslim repression of women, down to genital mutilation, oppose the Baptist demand to teach Creationism instead of science and struggle within ourselves to find ethical answers to questions of abortion, euthanasia and why the Catholic church condemns so many Africans to an early death by eschewing condoms, I struggle to support the established religions.

Individual faith should have little to do with Cardinal Ratzinger or Osama bin Laden or any crazy Baptist preacher.

Cloudy, the Vatican has been shamed, no-one is dumping on the religion.

Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation.

For a Catholic, your individual faith is tied to the ecclesiastical corporate structure. You can't receive Jesus, confess your sins, deal in any of the Sacraments that make one a Catholic without the Priest, Bishop, Cardinal, Pope starting lineup. Without the structure there is no practice of Catholicism. To be Catholic means "to live by the doctrine of the Church." Not the doctrine of God, but the order of the Church. Ratzinger the man can commit sins, his priests can commit sins, but the Pope and the Priestly order(the Church) is faultless.

In my research into Queen Elizabeth I, I read about the Pope at that time hiring assassins to kill the Bastard Queen. I guess a lot of Popes over the years have committed horrible crimes, but the the Church somehow remains clean?

An interesting disclaimer from the longest and richest closely-held corporation in the world. No matter what their leaders do, the church is not responsible, huh?

In my research into Queen Elizabeth I, I read about the Pope at that time hiring assassins to kill the Bastard Queen. I guess a lot of Popes over the years have committed horrible crimes, but the the Church somehow remains clean?

An interesting disclaimer from the longest and richest closely-held corporation in the world. No matter what their leaders do, the church is not responsible, huh?

Yeah it is just like "W", he can fail to grasp the situation and wipe out our Treasury, but he can't be blamed for stupidity, because the President is always right. Revisionist Historians, you know those who look at the facts, will disagree and rip his "Glorious Legacy" to shreds, leaving future generations, who have to pay off his debt, will never realize how wise and compassionate he was supposed to be.

In my research into Queen Elizabeth I, I read about the Pope at that time hiring assassins to kill the Bastard Queen. I guess a lot of Popes over the years have committed horrible crimes, but the the Church somehow remains clean?

An interesting disclaimer from the longest and richest closely-held corporation in the world. No matter what their leaders do, the church is not responsible, huh?

Does God hold people accountable for their actions or does God hold abstract entities accountable for a person's actions?

In my research into Queen Elizabeth I, I read about the Pope at that time hiring assassins to kill the Bastard Queen. I guess a lot of Popes over the years have committed horrible crimes, but the the Church somehow remains clean?

An interesting disclaimer from the longest and richest closely-held corporation in the world. No matter what their leaders do, the church is not responsible, huh?

See, that's the thing. Are you looking at it as a church, or as a corporation?

The two are held to differing standards, aren't they?

__________________Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart," all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart."

It wasn't me the priest who molested that boy, it was my Priestly Order that did it!

Corporations exist so individuals aren't held accountable for the organization's actions. Though, Jeff Skilling and Ken Lay were prosecuted through the veil of corporate ineffability. As there actions weren't corporate actions but individual sins.

Various Popes over the years have meddled in various earthly affairs. When the Catholic Church was the reigning political force in most countries, it would have been just about impossible for a Pope to not meddle in politics, even to the point of sending out assassins. But then, the history of (now) Italian politics is a book flowing with red ink. (Pun intended )

Pope Benedict XVI, back when he was Archbishop Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, thus the guy in charge of keeping discipline and maintaining order at the Vatican (a country unto itself, by the way), was in a very bad position. How to maintain the veil of the Incorruptible Church while dealing with very corruptible pedophile priests and bishops. Who would want a job like that, besides Ratzinger himself.

Now that he is Pope Benedict XVI, I really pity the guy. Now that he is, by Catholic doctrine, infallible and cannot ever be in error, how's he going to clean up the mess he didn't clean up back when he had the chance? I don't see how he can admit to having messed up as an Archbishop, then claim that his election to Pope, by the papal conclave has eliminated his ability to mess up.

If he doesn't admit to having messed up, he is, in the eyes of us mere mortals, fallible. But he can't be fallible because he was elected Pope....

The Catholic Church created itself above all man-made laws, long, long ago.

Did you ever read how the first Pope came into existence, since he was not Peter's direct son? Now, that is interesting. The archbishop of Rome appointed himself as the highest Archbishop on earth and therefore the most 'pope', an affectionate name for a paternal figure in Italian.

Now that he is Pope Benedict XVI, I really pity the guy. Now that he is, by Catholic doctrine, infallible and cannot ever be in error, how's he going to clean up the mess he didn't clean up back when he had the chance? I don't see how he can admit to having messed up as an Archbishop, then claim that his election to Pope, by the papal conclave has eliminated his ability to mess up.

If he doesn't admit to having messed up, he is, in the eyes of us mere mortals, fallible. But he can't be fallible because he was elected Pope....

But he is fallible because he failed all those kids....

My head hurts.

At least I can take a couple of Tylenols. What can this poor guy do?

The Pope is not infallible. He is only considered infallible when he issues an edict ex cathedra. The current Pope has never done that and is not likely to. Papal_infallibility

electricblue66: It's like [oggbashan] is writing for the third puffin over there by the sixth rock, when everyone else is an emperor penguin in the Antarctic, where there's tens of thousands of the bastards.

The Pope is not infallible. He is only considered infallible when he issues an edict ex cathedra. The current Pope has never done that and is not likely to. Papal_infallibility

Og

Og, nice link to what is to my mind simple bullshit, cast in words of the weasel.

I admit to a level of anti-Catholicism, because of my culture and upbringing. The Irish are a stubborn about things. However I focus on the Pope and the Structure of the Church. rather than shooting "Mackerel Snappers".

It is the size and power of the RCC that is the problem. Power Corrupts it is said, probably from the study of the Churches and Empires over the last 5,000 years.

It amuses me to watch these crises of conviction at the highest levels of so ridged and brittle an organization.

"The Arrogance of Power", explains the phenomena pretty well and if anybody ever gets down to writing the truth of GWB's administration "The Power of Arrogance," should be the title.

I pity the Pope as a man. He is in a position where he has to bear responsibility for his predecessor's atrocities, yet gains little from their accomplishments. The burdens of power.