That's quite a long post to which I'm assuming is directed at Klaud whom I know doesn't need such a rough post.

Everyone has their thoughts on trinkets and there's a flip side to your "There are several reasons for a tank to not run double stam trinkets". The most foremost one is they and their healers are fine with the tank's health and so the tank is trying to push higher dps. However, no one denies stam's usefulness; especially when one such as Theck has laid it out quite nicely over on Sacred Duty.

I for one, only like running one and find my health just fine and my healers are never stressed to the point they're asking for more. We've never wiped to a death in which was related to not having enough health to survive a few hits. However, others fine double haste trinkets the route to go and are more 'bleeding edge' than I. It also really plays into what kind of content your guild is rocking ~and~ your gearing strategy.

Long time lurker since BC in fact where this site confirmed me in that walking the path of the light and standing in front of the boss receiving hitting was the way ahead (expect for certain trash in BT where you tanked with your back to the mobs )

If you have the gold go for the haste/mast boots, for my money they beat all normal mode drops even the thunder forged ones, and no good boots drop from the easier heroics. So those crafted ones should last you most of the tier.As long as you can time SotR for the telegraphed attacks half the bosses in ToT have, your current gear shouldn't stop your team clearing normals.I'd say the vp cloak should be your next purchase, there's good bracers on Jin and horridon. Only thing I'd change on your gear is switch your glove enchant to sha armour kit as that's a more efficient place to get stam than with gems.Gl in ToT

Daishan"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett

With your current gear the Hit boots would probably be better since you are still gemming/reforging for hit and expertise. I went with the Haste boots because I'm swimming in hit; neither pair are a bad choice.

IMO the only better boots are Heroic Thunderforged drops. You should get pretty good mileage out of crafting some.

Your gear should be fine for ToT normal although most guilds/pugs might be critical, we cleared with our "retired" druid tank a few weeks ago and his gear is about the same ilvl as yours not to mention paladin active mitigation is generally stronger than druid's in ToT. The most important thing for personal survival in ToT is using Shield of the Righteous and cooldowns appropriately.

You could hit that 60 str bonus in your legs by traiding any of the three Guardians that you have in your prismatic sockets with the Solid in the legs. Free stats are free stats... Pretty minor though.

Looking at Theck's weapon comparisons in his matlab thread, it's going to be really close in terms of their dps. He does not sim the upgraded LFR Kilrak, but you can interpolate based on the unupgraded LFR and normal ones. From eyeballing the numbers, it seems to depend on whether you evaluate at weapon caps (sim 3) or not (sim 1). I'd be inclined to evaluate at weapon caps, but then you'd have to factor in the extra dps from whatever extra haste you free up if you switch to the 502 weapon. All too complicated for something that's like to be really close. Theck says upgrade your Kilrak if get something 10 levels or more higher, so the 502 weapon might just nudge ahead on dps.

In terms of other stats, it's also close. But given that Kilrak gives you unreforgable parry (via strength) and mastery, whereas the 502 weapon is hit/expertise, I'd be inclined to favor the latter.

I've been really unlucky with shield drops so I've been using the raid finder version of the MSV shield for months. Today I got http://www.wowhead.com/item=95515. Is the loss of strength worth the gain in mastery, haste, stamina and armor? Looks pretty obvious to me but I thought I'd ask.

Question: Does that rule apply to the JC-only special gems as well (Serpent's Eye)? My poor math skills and fuzzy logic tell me that those JC-only gems are a good place to stam stack (even though normal gems aren't), but I just want to make sure because of my low self-confidence.

I wouldn't waste my gold/time on buying/crafting it personally. I guess it depends on how accessible other weapons will be for you. You can get an equivalent weapon to the epic planar edge from ToT LFR.

It's perfectly itemised for tanks but is very costly in time and materials.

If you want a 463 starter weapon, the Klaxxi recipe ones would be cheaper but with worse stats. You'd be replacing the weapon soon, so I'd be inclined to go for the Klaxxi one on cost grounds.

The 476 version seems too costly for an interim weapon. For the content you'd bring a 476 weapon to, you could get by with a 463.

The 502 version is very attractive - as good as anything from ToT LFR - but very expensive for something that you should get from LFR, RNG willing. It's only a minor upgrade over an upgraded LFR Sha-touched weapon and obviously dominated by any T15 raid drop. So on balance, it's a great failsafe weapon if you are unlucky in or don't run ToT LFR. I may make one for an under-used alt. But it's so costly in mats and so slow to craft, I doubt mains will use it.

Ultimately, I think these weapons are fun transmog projects for BS that can be used in current content, but such usage is not their main function.

econ21 wrote:The 502 version is very attractive - as good as anything from ToT LFR - but very expensive for something that you should get from LFR, RNG willing. It's only a minor upgrade over an upgraded LFR Sha-touched weapon and obviously dominated by any T15 raid drop. So on balance, it's a great failsafe weapon if you are unlucky in or don't run ToT LFR. I may make one for an under-used alt. But it's so costly in mats and so slow to craft, I doubt mains will use it.

*Shushhh* don't tell anyone. or no one will buy mine from the AH and make me rich.

So far I'm with 11k haste and being able to keep in certain fights a 60% uptime on shor.

My questions so far are should i keep getting more haste in my gear? Should I start focusing in mastery or even stamina?

Make any sense to have a mastery set for a specific fight or haste still the best option?

Legendary metagem I`ve been discussing this with my raid leader. I want to get the dps one instead of the tanking one while he is saying the opposite. Which metagem should I get? The only fight I take a huge amount of dmg is only H Horridon during the enrage and I think the DPS metagem could increase my dmg by 10% or even more.

Your metagem choice should depend on what your raid would benefit more, added survivability or extra DPS. Bare in mind the legendary dps meta is like 10% DPS bonus to your own dps.

Most raids at this point of the game benefit more from added DPS than from some RNG survivability.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

Worldie wrote:Your metagem choice should depend on what your raid would benefit more, added survivability or extra DPS. Bare in mind the legendary dps meta is like 10% DPS bonus to your own dps.

Most raids at this point of the game benefit more from added DPS than from some RNG survivability.

I haven't seen a source for that 10% figure, although I've heard people say it's huge DPS for tanks. Do you happen to know where it came from? Given that the proc scales with AP I believe it, but I'd love to see the numbers since.

That said, I admit that I also turned my nose at first at the Indominable given that it's an uncontrollable proc, but the uptime and strength of that proc are legitimately absurd. I set a WeakAura for all of my defensives and put that in it, so I can see at a glance when it pops up, and how long I have left on it. Two things jump out:

(1) First, since it's RPPM based on incoming attacks, it's only up when you're tanking. So this is drastically more powerful on tank swap fights. (2) Second, since it's RPPM and not ICD, it can overwrite itself. It clips, sure, but that's a solid 20-25 seconds of what is effectively a free glyphed Divine Protection.

I'm in a 25H haste gearing/stam stacking progression build, and this thing still procs like crazy. If you're in a 10M, or 25 LFR/N build where you're living with haste gemming as well, you're going to see even more insane uptimes on this thing because RPPM scales with haste. Of course, that probably applies to the DPS one as well.

In short... I have gotten noticeably more invincible since I got this thing. And no, that's not a misnomer; tanking isn't binary, as I think we've all come to accept. Smoother is better, REALLY not dead is easier for your healers to deal with than only slightly not dead, and this thing has saved my guild several kills where I've all but been the last man standing. When I've got the proc up, I can save my personal CDs; if you plan around that and you're not incredibly unlucky, it's a significant increase in defensive power.

Zothor wrote:I set a WeakAura for all of my defensives and put that in it, so I can see at a glance when it pops up, and how long I have left on it.

Would you mind sharing that string? At least the indomitable part?

Fair warning: these aren't separate bars or anything. One overlaps the other. My personal feeling is that, if I have a defensive up, that's what I need to know. If I have two, that's gravy. I'm sure I missed some externals, but I tried to include the ones that my raid tends to use on me. Raidwide externals are on a different aura that's not included here.

Zothor wrote:I haven't seen a source for that 10% figure, although I've heard people say it's huge DPS for tanks. Do you happen to know where it came from? Given that the proc scales with AP I believe it, but I'd love to see the numbers since.

You can easily just glance at recount/skada/logs to see how much of a dps increase it is. When I was tanking, it was upwards of around 11-12% for me.

Hey guys, so first time here. Still pretty new to paladin tanking, swaped from warrior to pally basically 2 weeks after ToT came out. I noticed alot of people go for the haste build, I just have yet to feel comfortable doing it, so I have been doing mastery.