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Benefit: You learn one additional spell at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast. Thus, a 4th-level sorcerer (maximum spell level 2nd) gains a new 0-level or 1st-level spell known with which to expand her repertoire. For classes such as wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research.

I'd rather not get involved in the Extra spell discussion, but I'll bold the interesting stuff.

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

Extra Spell is one of those by RAW feats people don't allow, because wizards are already so OP.
Technically it wouldn't but the question is what are you worried about? The worst that could happen is that you would have to take the time and money to inscribe it which is pretty low all considering.

Edit: And if the questions is more "can the wizard" the answer is yes as the feat allows you to be able to cast and learn the spell. The only question becomes that you might have to take the effort to actually write it versus what normally happens when you level.

Last edited by Suddo; 2012-11-13 at 11:28 AM.

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Currently Glanror in the Political Shenanigans campaign.

Originally Posted by Rankar

*I may not teach the paladin communism and the concept of the greater good.
*It is not within my rights to overthrow the established monarchy using the communist paladin.

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

A wizard would never waste a feat on it. A wizard would take extra spell, scribe a scroll of it, DCFS/retrain it away into feat of choice, then scribe the scroll into her spellbook.

So you're going to waste 500 xp to make a scroll (which you still have to pay for) instead of just buying it. And personally I think there might be a spell or two that might be worth the feat especially if you abuse what level some classes get them at.

Last edited by Suddo; 2012-11-13 at 02:02 PM.

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Currently Glanror in the Political Shenanigans campaign.

Originally Posted by Rankar

*I may not teach the paladin communism and the concept of the greater good.
*It is not within my rights to overthrow the established monarchy using the communist paladin.

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

You're certainly NOT going to waste a feat slot on a spell if you're a wizard. Any spell. Ever. That sort of stuff is for sorcerers.

What you do is find a caster not hostile to you that knows the spell (the game didn't let you ban Divination; aren't you happy about it now?) and then you're going to bribe the hell out of it to let you copy the spell or help you make a scroll of it (money stopped being an issue at level 11-12, when you became able to cast Wall of Iron and thus gained access to a limitless supply of a valuable trade good).

This gets you, at worst, a scroll of any spell that any bribeable NPC can cast (I say at worst, because some casters don't have spellbooks, and some of those that do will be understandably reluctant to let you handle them). Then you're faced with a Spellcraft DC of 15+spell level (that you're probably not going to fail at low-levels, almost assuredly aren't going to fail at medium-levels, and at high-levels... well...) and then you can copy it into your spellbook.

Now, though it isn't mentioned in the relevant part (i.e., the "adding spells to your spellbook" section), the mention of "arcane spells" can be found peppered about here and there, and your DM might not let this fly (there's a couple of gems in the divine lists that you might make good use of). This just means that your going to aim your spell-knowledgeable-searching divinations at all the lovely, lovely Dragons, Nagas, and Rainbow Servants out there (Nagas and Servants might require a bit of negotiating, but I assure you any true Dragon, a.k.a, the ones you care about, is going to be more than happy to take your money in return for the casting of a spell).

Last edited by JBento; 2012-11-13 at 03:31 PM.

Morituri nolumus morit - We who are about to die... don't want to

"BUT, LORD, WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPERMAN." - Death, "Reaperman"

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

All it does for a wizard is allows him to scribe one extra spell in his book for free on that level up*. That's it. (kind of a waste of a feat, huh?)

On the losing your spell-book issue, there's at least some mitigation in the fact that you can expend the spells you have memorized at the time to scribe a new book containing those spells at half-price.

*Unless you buy the absurd interpretation that it lets you learn -any- one spell up to one level lower than your highest.

I am not seaweed. That's a B.

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Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell

Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.

Originally Posted by LTwerewolf

[...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

Collegiate Wizard would still be a better option (2 extra at every level -- instead of one extra at a single level) unless you realized that you were going to be hit with a stealth nerf after character creation.

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

No, suicide is useful in that case. Unless the DM is trying to block a specific spell he's implicitly telling you that wizards are too powerful and you shouldn't play one. Roll up your wizard's sorcerer brother and call it a day.

Well..... roll up the sorcerer brother, smack your DM for not having the fortitude to just say, "I'd rather you didn't play a wizard," then call it a day.

Communication is important and passive-aggressive communication (read; bad communication) deserves a smack at best or a rage-quit at worst.

I am not seaweed. That's a B.

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Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell

Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.

Originally Posted by LTwerewolf

[...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

The feat strongly implies that a Wizard could use it to learn and scribe a spell that he's unable to find a copy of to study. If your DM thinks otherwise, then you can use Extra Spell to learn a spell, then cast Secret Page to turn the text of another spell into that one, and then copy it into your book from there if necessary. The next time you gain a level, use the retraining rules in PH2 p192-193 to switch out Extra Spell for another feat, as you've already got a copy of it now.

I've actually played in a game where the DM decided that Wizards don't automatically learn new spells when they level up, every spell must be discovered and studied. I played a Sorcerer.

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

I've actually played in a game where the DM decided that Wizards don't automatically learn new spells when they level up, every spell must be discovered and studied. I played a Sorcerer.

I played a Sorceror in a game where the dm claimed my character needed to find wizard spell scrolls to learn new spells ignoring the fact that I had gone as far as to actually create the character's teacher and included the information with the character sheet handed in every session.
Being the only arcane spellcaster and that dependent meant she had to pick up Identify and tried to avoid spells with spell components as best as possible going so far as to ask the dm to replace the Summon Familiar with a single bonus feat in this case Extra Spell so she could add Endure Elements to her known spell list as the party was about to cross into a desert for several days travelling... then the dm allowed the other players to get heat resistant armour for their characters making the effort completely pointless... well until we reached the ruin and had to dig the entrance clear of sand... I made sure the only cleric of the party was protected from the elements along with mine just to be safe!

I agree about it looking like a palm olive branch to sorceror's to cover all the nerfing done to prevent it being better balanced when compared to Wizards but thats an entirely old series of threads dealt with (way, way!) in the past however the one advantage i see is that taking that would allow you to ignore a bad roll for a spell you feel your character absolutely needs and after 3.5 i believe they allow the option to retrain after all well they do allow sorceror's to change their spell list every 4th level or so (1 spell mind you buts enough about Sleep or Colour Spray!)

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

Originally Posted by Hopeless

I played a Sorceror in a game where the dm claimed my character needed to find wizard spell scrolls to learn new spells ignoring the fact that I had gone as far as to actually create the character's teacher and included the information with the character sheet handed in every session.

Wow. That is ... so much not how sorcerers work it's not even funny.

Being the only arcane spellcaster and that dependent meant she had to pick up Identify and tried to avoid spells with spell components as best as possible

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

Originally Posted by Suddo

So you're going to waste 500 xp to make a scroll (which you still have to pay for) instead of just buying it. And personally I think there might be a spell or two that might be worth the feat especially if you abuse what level some classes get them at.

If you have magic-mart available to buy any spell you want, then the feat is indeed useless. But that assumption doesn't always hold true.

Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

No, suicide is useful in that case. Unless the DM is trying to block a specific spell he's implicitly telling you that wizards are too powerful and you shouldn't play one. Roll up your wizard's sorcerer brother and call it a day.

Well..... roll up the sorcerer brother, smack your DM for not having the fortitude to just say, "I'd rather you didn't play a wizard," then call it a day.

Communication is important and passive-aggressive communication (read; bad communication) deserves a smack at best or a rage-quit at worst.

That's more than a bit petulant. Plenty of modules have fixed loot, it's not necessarily the DM being passive-aggressive or out to get anyone. And some DMs like to throw odd resources at the players - including spells that don't see play very often - just to see what creative uses they put them to. Left to their own devices and magic-mart, CharOp wizards - like CharOp sorcerers - tend to gravitate towards the same spells, over and over.

Originally Posted by The Giant

But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?

Re: Wizard with Extra Spell and writing in the spellbook

If that's the source of the lack of magical access it's unfortunate, but a sorcerer would probably still be the better choice in that case.

In a non-module situation, however, there's a line (albeit a fuzzy one) between restricting spell access for a wizard and denying spell access for a wizard. The former is a built in restriction to keep the wizard from getting out of hand, the latter is a stealth nerf.

I took "severely restricting scroll loot" and "never lets you meet other wizards" to be the latter. Even then a wizard's got the independent research rules to fall back on, provided he can get the down-time to employ them.

I am not seaweed. That's a B.

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Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell

Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.

Originally Posted by LTwerewolf

[...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.