Gloom in Mudville: The defense is upside down by $10,000

Monday, April 15, 2013

Greetings to everyone.

The defense is falling apart.

In the latest issue of Zimsanity News, which is my handy new way of referring to propaganda information about the legal case released by Mark O’Mara or information about the defendant’s clueless family released by its official spokesperson, Robert Zimmerman, Jr., we find out that Mark O’Mara wants the settlement agreement opened up for public review, including the settlement amount.

Ben Crump is OK with publicizing the agreement, but he wants the settlement amount to remain confidential.

Meanwhile, O’Mara announced on Friday that the defense fund is upside down by about $10,000. That’s bad news for the defense team with only 56 days left until trial.

Could this mean that the defense might be on the verge of tossing a white handkerchief into the ring, if the Court of Appeals denies the writ?

Possibly, because insufficient funds to try the case the way it should be tried is often cited by private counsel as the reason for a last minute guilty plea.

Do I have any evidence that such discussions have taken place?

No, I do not.

I discussed the lack-of-money problem a couple of months ago and suggested that the defense should consider filing a motion asking Judge Nelson to declare the defendant indigent. That would assure that all reasonably necessary defense expenses for deposition transcripts, investigators and expert witnesses would be paid by the court. No fuss, no muss regarding unpaid bills. That would certainly lighten the stress load.

Not so fast, you say?

Well, you’re right. O’Mara’s plea for more money from donors brought in approximately $60,000, but I gather that donations have slowed to a trickle.

Will another plea for money prime the pump, so to speak, and avert the looming financial crisis?

Maybe.

Maybe not.

If O’Mara cannot pull another financial rabbit out of his hat, he will have to ask Judge Nelson to declare the defendant indigent. However, given how quickly the defense blew through the $60,000 I cannot help but wonder if the defense has mismanaged the donations by spending far too much money for the defendant’s living and security expenses. I have not kept a tally but IIRC, they’ve blown through close to a half million by now and more than half of that money was spent on living and security expenses.

I think Judge Nelson would be required, as a matter of law to declare the defendant indigent, if he can satisfy her that he truly is indigent, even if he is responsible for having attained pauper status by spending too much money on non-essential items.

Bottom Line: O’Mara needs to take action to solve this problem ASAP because the longer he waits for the money to start flowing again, the more incompetent and irresponsible he will appear to be. That is exactly the wrong message to be broadcasting this close to trial, especially after he basically waived the “sure thing” immunity hearing and we now know that the HOA was not buying the narrative he was pushing on the public.

After all, why would potential donors remain willing to contribute money, if the defense failed to manage previous donations responsibly and O’Mara blew his credibility with donors when he waived the immunity hearing that was supposed to be such a sure-thing?

Those two circumstances might very well turn out to be death blows to the defense.

And then there is the message from Gladys blaming the public for the decision to charge the defendant with second degree murder.

I am going to pass on criticizing a mother for defending her son.

She is entitled to her opinion.

I base my opinion on the evidence.

The case is starting to smell like decomp to me.

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429 Responses to Gloom in Mudville: The defense is upside down by $10,000

I see over on Whonoze blog they’re discussing that Professors lessons draw very little discussion. That is true, but it’s not that we don’t appreciate the lessons etc., that he posts, but that he is the Professor and being in agreement or accepting what he has written, we see little that can be fruitfully discussed, most especially when at the moment we are engaged with our peers, in matters concerning the GZ case, and/or tying up loose social ends.

I’m sure Professor realizes that there’s still plenty of work to be done and that, no matter how much one wants to stay focused, there is still a social side to it all that must of needs be paid attention to. (See: Rumpole of the Bailey, for further instructions on what can be done with “honey” at court). It would be incredibly foolish to think that anything in life, really gets done without any attention at all to the social surrounds of life. In fact, more gets done as people are approachable while socializing, than what gets done while they are formally unapproachable.

Lonnie~ Unlike whonoze, who has some knowledge of the law and feels comfortable arguing with the Professor, MOST of us do NOT have such a background. We are here to learn as we work for justice for Trayvon Martin. EVERYTHING the Professor posts leads us into thousands of posts of discussion; types of evidence, who can testify, what does the latest motion mean, etc… It elicits plenty of group discussion ONCE its legal significance is clarified by the Professor. Do we really need to argue with our host in order for our blog to be deemed as “spurring discussions”? The CTH is an example of the blind leading the blind. Arguing is part of deciding the alpha status there. As a student, I check my alpha-ness at the keyboard, in order to learn from better informed and educated sources. Maybe I’m wrong (I doubt it) but many of us are professionals in our own spheres of experience. Anything you want to know about cars, there’s Racer. You need anything about elementary school, you can ask me. Same for countless posters. What positive things could come from arguing with our host? Hoodies up!

That too, of course, there’s nothing to argue over the written statues, and there’s only something to discuss if there’s a need to apply them to some specific matter.

When we got into SYG/immunity (which unitron insisted we call immunity but which we all rather decided to keep calling SYG, because it was more recognizable and would keep the board from filling with queries from newcomers). but when we got into the several laws which cover the issues, we quickly reached a consensus that by getting out of his truck with his fire arm and following Trayvon, GZ was unlawfully creating a need to defend himself. The law says that if you are the one who created the need to defend yourself, you’re toast! That’s the simplest way I can put it.

The law says that if you are the one who created the need to defend yourself, you’re toast! That’s the simplest way I can put it.

Yep! That’s the way the Dooley jury decided. If not but for the fact that Dooley left his garage/driveway with a loaded gun and approached David James because James’ mouthed off to him, the two would not have come into physical contact.

…when at the moment we are engaged with our peers, in matters concerning the GZ case, and/or tying up loose social ends.

The person who started that is following the Zidiot agenda to;
1. Disparage and demean Leatherman and thus, this blog; and
2. Posture all supporters of justice for Trayvon as being emotional without regard to facts; and
3. Silence all mention of GZ and his family unless it’s in a positive light; and
4. Divide and conquer. For instance, if they talk bad enough about Leatherman and other bloggers, it will instill fear in others to stop participating on those blogs. They want to give people the impression that a blog with low comments means that GZ has more supporters than those wanting justice for Trayvon.

Read that person’s recent comments and you will see that all of this is within their agenda. They are working in stealth to commit verbal vandalism of not only distracting from discussions and turning the focus onto themselves, but also transforming comments to emotions and race.

How very strange of Unitron to complain that we were not jousting with The Professor.

Unitron himself spent 98% of the time hassling the students here (not the Professor) about grammar, syntax, hemlines, hair length, the merits of scrambled eggs (soft or hard-scrambled?), retention of the Panama Canal, how thoroughly bilingual Quebec should be … ya’ know, stuff significant to the case at hand.

How very strange of Unitron to complain that we were not jousting with The Professor.

It wasn’t just that. “We,” (understand that to apply to everyone here) were accused of doing nothing other than bad mouthing GZ, his family and O’Mara. “We” were accused of taking our positions based on emotions rather than evidence. “We” were accused of not using logic.

It’s pretty much word for word accusations by the Professor’s number one hater who said he is dedicated to “destroy” the Professor’s “false narrative” and that of everyone who does not support GZ. That in fact, that person does not see us as individuals but as one person, so it makes everyone fair game if and when they post here. We are all “leatherheads” — unless — unless, you’re here doing the Zidiot’s dirty work.

Re: “Pirhanamom- that’s because you are the most thoroughly unflappable person I have ever e-met!”

Well, we haven’t had the great scrambled eggs debate yet!

(Secret to great soft-scrambled eggs: add I teaspoon powdered Parmesan cheese per egg plus a good pinch of dry pancake mix – say, 1/4 tsp. for 2-6 eggs. Scramble in deep pan, take off burner as soon as eggs barely start setting – residual heat in pan will get them to soft-scrambled stage when you put them on the warm prepped plates last – after everything’s on the plate – and serve immediately.)

Absolutely impressive parents, both Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin. In a way that tells me all I need to know about Trayvon.

That’s why the silly defense argument about them e.g. about “financial interests” or Tracy’s statement concerning the call make me really, really angry. It’s such a sick argument that I doubt it can work on the majority.

I admittedly liked the way Serino put it in his additionally filed report, something Ciesla supports in his addition to his own report on the same day, writing that he accidentally passed Major Crimes and stopped, wondering if he could be of help.

Were all the other officers, O’Mara seems to rely on, closer? What was their exact reason to be present? Do we actually know who was present besides Ciesla close by, and for what exact reason? Did O’Mara add some of the passage in his selective deposition information he used? Does anyone remember?

Ciesla:I did not hear the reply. Mr Martin was talking very softly when I did hear him.

Good that Crump added Serino’s statement. Can you expect to hear something reliable in such a moment?Tracy possibly just saw his dead son and maybe was told that there was no valid evidence against Fogen’s narrative, plus hearing the scream? What state must he have been in?

Somehow the way he put it made me wonder, was Serino forced to add this under SPD pressure by exactly the ones that claim to have overheard Tracy’s statement?

It’s absolutely meaningless what Tracy said at that moment. It maybe was much more easy for him to deal with Trayvon’s dead at this point by convincing himself that Trayvon wasn’t aware of the danger he was in up to the very last second, that he in fact only defended himself against someone who tried to restrain him. But the guy suddenly drew a gun. He may in one way or another to what he felt was a hostile environment. He may even have been pressured by whoever was around that wanted him to respond exactly that way. IT IS MEANINGLESS WHAT HE SAID AT THAT POINT, and to understand better we would need the exact copy Tracy heard at that day.

I hope you perceived my wishes for GZ’s mother – a future where she no longer has to fear that her electricity could once again be locked off by her faithless son, George – as a 2013 “Modest Proposal.”

Sorry, Piranha it got longer and longer and in the end I cut out the passage about the Zimmerman family, I do not care about them, really. But I wish journalist like Stutzman would at least add the Martin family’s response when publishing mom fogen’s letter to America..

I hope this is better…A repost because want to make sure you all are able to read it. An email, i sent to Mr nutcracker….. from Kelly Payne

Dear Mr cracker or Bradman which ever you prefer. Your continued lies and slander against Trayvon and his family are quite disgusting..

You know as well as i do That Trayvon was not killed in self defense. You also know as well as i do that Trayvon was begging for his life when he was killed. You know as well as i do that Zimmerman had Trayvon restrained by his shirts when he killed him..
Trayvon was no match for a 208lb bouncer by himself in a fair fight Zimmerman could have snapped his neck like a twig. But we know based on the evidence you chose to ignore that Trayvon never touched him..

In a fair fight the police would have found an unconscious teenager and an angry adult. Whether Trayvon missed 53 days of school is unknown,but highly unlikely because in most states if your child missed more than 20 he is called truant and the parents are taken to court. There are no known reports of Trayvon being deeply involved in drugs. Smoking weed a few times with your friends does not make you deeply involved in drugs.

.Also not relevant Another one of your lies. You are taking advantage of peoples ignorance and stupidity. The only one with a thug history is Zimmerman. Now you have a new one,Trayvon has a suppressed Criminal record. he never had any record. you are making assumptions and lying. No one knows why he was transferred from his other school there was a rumor he was bullied at that other school which was never confirmed. Also not relevant..

You mention MMA style blows. an obvious lie. Trayvon never knew martial arts mixed or otherwise.If he had Zimmerman would have ended up in the hospital and Trayvon would still be alive..

The man who said that has changed his story numerous times. His gun was on his right rear hip. It would have been impossible for him to grab it the way he described. .

Trayvon would never have seen it. the only way he could have grabbed his gun the way he described is if he knocked trayvon off then grabbed his gun aimed and shot him. His head was never repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk for nearly a minute.If it had he would not have been in any condition to fire a gun..

Those injuries on the back of his head are 1 round puncture wound and 1 inch long cut.the blood from those wounds flow toward his face.He was not on his back when he got those injuries. . He did not get those from a side walk. He got those from a metal object.

Trayvon never tried to smother him another obvious lie. He was never punched in the face 12 times or 30-40 times. All he had were scratches. no bruising no swelling no black eyes no broken nose. As for lying Zimmerman has done nothing but lie. maybe you and him belong together. Whether Dee Dee went to Trayvon’s funeral or to the hospital or somewhere is irrelevant and not material to the case.the only thing relevant is why there was a funeral in the first place..

If Zimmerman had left Trayvon alone he wouldn’t be in trouble. You continue to trot out that lie that Trayvon was a gang member despite the fact he was unarmed. No gang member goes anywhere with out their weapons which these days would be a gun..

If trayvon had been a gang member he would have put a bullet in Zimmerman’s head just for following him. And we would never have heard of Zimmerman he would just be another statistic..

You call trayvon a thug while trying to intimidate a witness. Which as it turned out those girls were not the Dee Dee you have been looking for. Keep it up when you get criminal charges you will have no one to blame but yourself. You so called conservatives always talk about morals christian values honesty and decency. You have no morals you are not honest and you were never a decent man..

You are not a christian either. A true christian would not pull the crap you’ve been pulling,and he would not support a murderer and slander a murder victim..

I can’t speak for the Martin/Fulton family but if it were me i would have sued you long ago. So keep.posting those lies. You will eventually Dig yourself a hole you can’t get out of. There is never a justification for killing an unarmed person,especially a kid. If someone hits you you hit them back you don’t use a gun. Have a nice day KELLY D PAYNE.

The schools my kids went to were so strapped for cash and the school was not getting funding for any days kids were out sick, so they would send out letters EVERY time the kids were out sick, whining about students missing too much school and making it seem as if they were truant. Very annoying!

MMPat, you are on a roll tonight … Suggested title for his autobiography/memoir, written from the can: The Book of Moron. .

@
well thats perfect as his suporters an he himself professed the Hand of God in his survivial an Trayvons death.
There out to crusify a decent sqeaky clean Merican patriotic hero.
A Meseianic cult almost as if he were a latter day Joseph Smith .
So the Book Of Moron is just about right.
Can even declare himself as tax except as a legitimite religion.

MELBOURNE, Fla. — Politics had nothing to do with the firing of a Port Canaveral police officer who brought Trayvon Martin-themed targets to a shooting range, the port’s top official said Tuesday.

Rather, Sgt. Ron King was fired because offering the “hoodie-style” targets to fellow officers was “insensitive, unprofessional and unacceptable,” said John Walsh, Canaveral Port Authority interim chief executive officer.

“To me, that target is an inappropriate target. I think it is something that is inflammatory and — whether used as a ‘shoot’ target or a ‘not-shoot’ target — in my opinion is something that an employee of the port should not be using,” Walsh said Tuesday during a news conference.
*****************
BAM!

Good article T.O. that’s it in a nutshell. Especially that he challenges Junior’s core argument. I wondered it this was my former blog “friends” main concern, you know the misguided assumptions by the “liberal crowd” concerning gun rights. NRA member for life, you know.

As for gun rights, Zimmerman’s trial is no test of whether the rest of us can arm ourselves in public or “stand our ground” when assaulted. We’ll keep those rights in Florida, regardless of the verdict, say Gov. Rick Scott and the state Legislature.

I think fear of losing those is what motivates so many in Brevard to try to defend a homicide — legal or not — with tasteless emails, online messages or (allegedly) shooting-range targets.

Hi all, thoughts and prayers to the injured and dead, and their families, and just Boston in general. So hard to understand.

…has anything been done about O’Mara’s attempt to get money for time wasting and BDLRs reply or is it all still pending? Not sure if i missed it.

…also what does it mean if gz is made indignant? does it just mean that he will get funding for his defense from the government this time…you know, the government that has wronged him and the system that has failed him?

I am a teeshirt, longsleeve, sweater, pullover, leatherjacket, jeans type, mainly black, I’d stand no chance against either one of you. Hmm reminds me of Serino? The color is black on black on black Yes, true most of the time.

I am absolutely sure you look gorgeous in that blouse, fact is I may feel slightly uncomfortable in it. I make even only minimal concessions in the Armani circles of our society, or to dress codes and fashion. You know what, they get used to it. Even my mother has given up to lure me into colors beyond black, gray-beige, gray, ivory, brownish. That was about 30 years ago. Basically the range of colors has not changed only black became more and more dominating. By now I guess not even my family and friends would recognize me anymore if I suddenly appeared in your blouse.

not seen anything like that anywhere but would guess it would be in the media if he had been. surely omara would not let something like that go unnoticed…unless, it had bad turnout. and if another hoa was involved maybe, in him being a nw, they might be afraid to say so public if it had turned out bad for liability maybe???

@lady, I hope that all of that somehow comes out at trial. I pray that ALL of fogens disgusting laundry is strewn for the world to see. Was there a police report completed for the incident? I’d love to know just what crap load of lies fogen told the popo about his landlord.

GZ’s call to the cops about the Landlord was on 8/21/2009. He was in a department store when the Landlord saw him and asked him about the rent. GZ called the cops and said the Landlord was trying to take his money, but he didn’t have to pay rent because the house was in foreclosure.

If someone didn’t think he was a total idiot before, once you look at these calls you will. I’m surprised he didn’t call LE every morning to complain the sun came up and every evening when it went down. Or if the wind was blowing.

I hope this is better…A repost because want to make sure you all are able to read it. An email, i sent to Mr nutcracker….. from Kelly Payne
Dear Mr cracker or Bradman which ever you prefer. Your continued lies and slander against Trayvon and his family are quite disgusting. You know as well as i do That Trayvon was not killed in self defense. You also know as well as i do that Trayvon was begging for his life when he was killed. You know as well as i do that Zimmerman had Trayvon restrained by his shirts when he killed him. Trayvon was no match for a 208lb bouncer by himself in a fair fight Zimmerman could have snapped his neck like a twig. But we know based on the evidence you chose to ignore that Trayvon never touched him. In a fair fight the police would have found an unconscious teenager and an angry adult. Whether Trayvon missed 53 days of school is unknown,but highly unlikely because in most states if your child missed more than 20 he is called truant and the parents are taken to court. There are no known reports of Trayvon being deeply involved in drugs. Smoking weed a few times with your friends does not make you deeply involved in drugs.Also not relevant Another one of your lies. You are taking advantage of peoples ignorance and stupidity. The only one with a thug history is Zimmerman. Now you have a new one,Trayvon has a suppressed Criminal record. he never had any record. you are making assumptions and lying. No one knows why he was transferred from his other school there was a rumor he was bullied at that other school which was never confirmed. Also not relevant. You mention MMA style blows. an obvious lie. Trayvon never knew martial arts mixed or otherwise.If he had Zimmerman would have ended up in the hospital and Trayvon would still be alive. The man who said that has changed his story numerous times. His gun was on his right rear hip. It would have been impossible for him to grab it the way he described. Trayvon would never have seen it. the only way he could have grabbed his gun the way he described is if he knocked trayvon off then grabbed his gun aimed and shot him. His head was never repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk for nearly a minute.If it had he would not have been in any condition to fire a gun.Those injuries on the back of his head are 1 round puncture wound and 1 inch long cut.the blood from those wounds flow toward his face.He was not on his back when he got those injuries. . He did not get those from a side walk. He got those from a metal object. Trayvon never tried to smother him another obvious lie. He was never punched in the face 12 times or 30-40 times. All he had were scratches. no bruising no swelling no black eyes no broken nose. As for lying Zimmerman has done nothing but lie. maybe you and him belong together. Whether Dee Dee went to Trayvon’s funeral or to the hospital or somewhere is irrelevant and not material to the case.the only thing relevant is why there was a funeral in the first place.
If Zimmerman had left Trayvon alone he wouldn’t be in trouble. You continue to trot out that lie that Trayvon was a gang member despite the fact he was unarmed. No gang member goes anywhere with out their weapons which these days would be a gun. If trayvon had been a gang member he would have put a bullet in Zimmerman’s head just for following him. And we would never have heard of Zimmerman he would just be another statistic. You call trayvon a thug while trying to intimidate a witness. Which as it turned out those girls were not the Dee Dee you have been looking for. Keep it up when you get criminal charges you will have no one to blame but yourself. You so called conservatives always talk about morals christian values honesty and decency. You have no morals you are not honest and you were never a decent man. You are not a christian either. A true christian would not pull the crap you’ve been pulling,and he would not support a murderer and slander a murder victim. I can’t speak for the Martin/Fulton family but if it were me i would have sued you long ago. So keep.posting those lies. You will eventually Dig yourself a hole you can’t get out of. There is never a justification for killing an unarmed person,especially a kid. If someone hits you you hit them back you don’t use a gun. Have a nice day KELLY D PAYNE.

Just left you an encouraging comment above and found you tried again here. First of all don’t be discouraged. I think I see what went amiss. I may be wrong but the four paragraphs I think you wanted to create started with the sentences:

Paragraph 1) Dear Mr Cracker…

Paragraph 2) Trayvon never knew Martial Arts…

Paragraph 3) If Zimmerman had left Trayvon alone…

Paragraph 4) You have no morals you are not…

Now it could be like TSTAS says in which case you will have to learn to do direct in wordpress, or it may be that you simply forgot to punch/press the “return key” twice to create a new paragraph. In my list of the paragraphs it appears you wanted to create I pressed the return twice after each one which gives the double space that separates one paragraph from the next.

You will get the hang of it but it may take a bit so don’t worry, don’t give up, keep calm and keep trying with new texts otherwise you’ll wear yourself out ! And thank you for trying, your patience stands as a tribute to you all by itself ! 🙂

I read the message and am so impressed with how they have handled this tragedy and the Boston tragedy. They have proven how they are fighting without being mean and they are getting results and justice…..MORE JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON TO COME…….

With pictures of Trayvon and Martin now being circulated in tandem across the Internet and in mainstream media, the Fogen Fam — Boobles Sr., Gladazz and Joonyer must be gnashing their teeth.

They should be patient. Soon, GZ’s picture will be circulated along with those of other convicted murderers in high profile cases, such as Timothy McVeigh, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, and soon to be added, Michael Dunn.

Who cares what they think? GZ is broke, no money for gas, he’ll have to sell his and Shelly’s cars just to eat. Not to worry, MOM will take those cars off their hands. GZ is sliding down into the gutter, exactly where his decision making should have put him a long time ago. Trayvon’s the only hero to come out of this.

According to Taaffe, GZ killed Trayvon for refusing to bow to white supremacy. He said, “…if only he had answered the questions”.
Who told Taaffe that questions were asked? Or was he there watching first hand? Where did he get the idea that anyone had any right to ask any questions? Is that what Fogen told him? Or is that what he observed?

Taaffe needs to be put under tremendous pressure to come clean about what he knows. Obviously no one has a right to kill anyone, to get their questions answered. Taaffe should know this! So, he needs to either come clean or be charged as an accessory to murder.

Unfortunately GWB did away with the Geneva Convention when he said that the U.S. cannot be held to abide by it. The only way to put things back together is, those violations of the GC must be repudiated, but there has been no effort to do so, so for all practical purposes, the Geneva Conventions only exist as a rhetorical device.

I’m not too concerned about what they think except that they make concerted efforts at tweeting this stuff to newspaper editors and other media reporters, trying to influence news reports. I came across this on Twitter this PM.

What ASSHOLES they are. Does it REALLY matter if the kid was carrying a sign for Trayvon or if it was for a peace rally? Their message reaching out to that family and all of the victims is the same. Why do they want to take something loving, caring and meaningful and turn it into trash?

Those people lost their son, Trayvon’s parents lost their son, both to senseless violence.

Sybrina reaches out beyond her own loss to comfort the loss of another mother.

GZ mother has lost nothing. She still has her son. Granted he didn’t grow up the way she wanted or expected but what has she done to reach out to anyone?

What have ANY of the Z’s done to reach out? They just come out and fuel the hate and y’all have heard me say it before, but I really believe that THEY are the problem because THEY have the power to go out there and tell people to knock it off. Instead they (Jr. at least) go on radio shows where hateful horrible things are said.

I’ve seen a couple open letters by both Sr. and Jr. at that outhouse. I have yet to see them say to stop the hatred and bigotry.

It doesn’t matter a damn bit if that sweet little boy was holding a sign for Trayvon specifically or peace in general. Travon’s mom reached out to her. That is a beautiful thing. To reach out and help heal someone else while healing yourself. Something the Z’s and the outhouse cannot do because they are drowning in hate instead of love.

“self defense was always intended for the home or road travel (a trucker for example) never for bar fights or chasing kids around at night”

I agree with you. However, I am a Class A CDL driver. OTR experience. I am a very small frame female. I worked alone over the road. 48 states. I spoke wth a police officer in my home town. I wanted a CCW permit to have for protection while at work OTR. I was advised the following from that officer:

1) CCW is only legal within your home state.

2) It is against the law to carry a fire arm in a commercial vehicle. (even if you are CCW within your home state) Punishable minimum 5 years jail, with $5000.00 fine.

3) off the record he told me never “brandish, (as if I would) and only shoot to kil in life or death situation. “Make sure there is only one story to tell”. (sounds familar huh?)

I always felt safer with my Husky, Meko by my side but he could not stay on the truck with me no more, so I had to get something else. I knew someone would have to be coming through the window/door with myself cringed in the sleeper before I could ever shoot. I didnt know if I could then or not either. I never wandered the parking lots random at night, stayed close to fuel island and service center. I never thought of mace or pepper spray or taser for that matter. I tried to stay smart and safe out there. Not put myself in easy target situation. I was very blessed in my travels.

I am very grateful for this blog. I hope justice comes soon for the Martin family. I dont really post alot as Im not as smart as you all when it comes to the legal stuff, but I am always here in the background reading (and boy do I read alot to keep up with you all) and in support of you all. I have learned alot. For that I thank all of you.

I wouldn’t necessarily count on legal advice from a police officer, many of whom are surprisingly ignorant concerning the intricacies of firearms laws. If you’re serious about getting a CCW, I’d suggest taking the required class and asking the instructor about the legalities of carrying a gun in your truck, either instate or out of state. If he’s not sure, he should be able to refer you to a lawyer who is.

Many states have reciprocal agreements with other states, whereby they honor each other’s CCW licences.

Some states, especially out west, allow “travelers” (variously defined) to carry concealed weapons without a permit in some situations.

In most places, you don’t need a permit to to have a concealed weapon in your home or place of business, including a temporary home such as a motel room or a campsite. Is the sleeper section on a semi a “home”? I dunno. Place of business…?

Laws and regulations vary widely between states (to say nothing of DOT regs) and you really should seek expert legal advice.

Yes, unfortunately the wordpress people have not seen fit to give us an ascii art utility. So ascii art gets collapsed into an unrecognizable mess. A whole genre of art is unavailable on blogs and it bothers me to no end. We should send in request that they do something to enable the posting of ascii art. If they get enough requests they’ll do something, after all it shouldn’t be that difficult.

Judy Ann,
1) CCW is only legal within your home state.–Not necessary true. If you are a legal resident of Florida and have a Concealed License, it is good in many states, but you are still required to follow the gun laws of that state. A Florida Concealed License is good in 35 other states.

I did not know. I could have been killed a few years back catching some sleep in a rest area off the interstate close to Memphis, Tennesese. Someone knocked on my window at like 3am asking for money. About 3-4 cars were in the rest area and I had no idea where he came from maybe the woods.

I Can’t imagine what truckers go through without a weapon for protection.

Thumbs up for you, Judy Ann – VERY SMART in your professional life AND considerate of you to illuminate the self-protection tactics we can all use. Extremely well-written!

Suggestion: remember “Meaner than a junkyard dog”? Go out and find one of those guys – well-fenced – and tape record those warning “Grrrrr’s” Set that tape recorder or CD recorder – whatever gives you the best clarity and volume – so you can hit “on” and instantly get that Junkyard Dog’s warning growl beamed out toward any intruder who tries to enter.

If you’re retired, do this for your home bedroom.

Let them think it’s Meko back in the sleeper bunk with you.
In the dark, how would they know?

Oh, in other news, the Fort Lauderdale Sun Sentinel won a Pulitzer Prize in Journalism, Public Service citation for reporting on “investigation of off-duty police officers who recklessly speed and endanger the lives of citizens, leading to disciplinary action and other steps to curtail a deadly hazard.”

For an appeal, there has to be some error. There has not been a trial yet so there has been no error. Post-conviction relief AFTER appeals fail can be based on ineffective assistance of counsel, but that’s a bridge farther than just error.

There’s room in this case for endless appeals, post-conviction motions, habeas corpus proceedings, appeals of those denials, and blah blah blah blah blah — even if there is not a single error.

This is the case that somebody wants to fight from now until doomsday. I’m betting on doomsday being the operative word.

I can’t find the States witness list now. Maybe someone can find and link it. This is what I remember off head. The State has filed its witness list. Among the listed witnesses are members of the Office of the Medical Examiner, County of Volusia, Florida, the FDLE, etc. I believe that the State will be relying on its own employee expert witnesses for ballistic, forensic, fiber, etc. analysis. There are also two individuals from Cellbrite on that list (re gps, etc.). The audio experts, among whom Ed Primeau and Owen, are also listed. The deadline for filing final witness list is tomorrow (17 april 2013). Maybe, but I am not sure something will happen between now and then.

SM – Yes, I recall those individuals identified in the witness lists, and you may be correct about the State using their own employee experts, but there was a deadline for the exchange of expert witness lists which was extended to April 10th at the request of the defense and the Court issed an Order in that regard – although the Clerk has not posted it yet. If the defense were going to rely upon its original witness list exchanged months ago, why would it have sought an extension?

According to defense’s request they sought an extension for the expert witness list exchange to April 10th, with “supplemental” lists to be exchanged 7 days thereafter once the parties had reviewed the other side’s first exchange. So, I am presuming the parties met the 10th deadline and it hasn’t made it onto the Clerk’s Docket. If they failed to make the exchange on the 10th – there is nothing to supplement on the 17th, and I don’t believe they can make that exchange for the first time without getting leave of court. JMHO.

I meant to add to the below that the information provided in the witness lists exchanged many months ago by the parties are not the same as with what is required to be provided in an expert witness list exchange. Normally, when you identify an expert in the expert witness list, you must give the name of the expert, the company they are associated with, the address, his area of expertise, and a brief description of what the expert is expected to testify to and in some instances, a copy of any reports that they have prepared in the case. I will admit that I am out of state and have not looked up the specific requirements under Florida procedure – just stating what is the norm.

I think the Professor will be replying to your cogent question soonest. Before he does, let me chime in with the following:

If GZ is convicted, could he successfully appeal his conviction on the ground of “ineffective assistance of counsel” based on his counsels’ failure to motion the Court to find him indigent?

No, the appeal will not succeed – on the following grounds:

For the appeal to succeed, GZ must show:

a. that O’Mara’s “performance” (i.e. not filing for finding of indigency) was “deficient”;

b. that the deficit prejudiced his defense and

c. that the result of the proceedings would have been different had O’Mara motioned for a finding of indecency and that the court, upon such a motion, would have found him to be indigent.

For the purpose of this exercise, I am catapulting myself to the future (e.g. August/September 2013) and thinking with hindsight. Ready? Let’s roll.

Question (a): does O’Mara’s “failure” to motion for a finding of indigency qualify as “deficient performance”? IMO, no, because:

1. O’Mara and West worked PRO-BONO. O’Mara and West stated as much to both the trial Court and the public/donors over and over again. Thus, GZ needed no state funding for his counsels and any indigency Motion on that ground would – evidently – have failed;

2. GZ had over $300.000.- donated to him. This amount was more than enough to hire any number of experts he needed for his defense. The fact that GZ allocated his money unwisely (for bond, his opulent life style, conducting presidential style surveillance and counter-surveillance, “expanding” and “upgrading” his counsel’s practice, etc.) does not does not support indigent status. Any Motion for the finding of indigency would – evidently – have failed.

3. Public records show that at the time GZ ran out of money, his primary consideration for whether or not to file a motion for a finding of indigency was his ability to continue to raise large sums of money online. GZ and his counsels calculated that GZ would have to give up his fund raising activities and forgo tens- if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations should GZ (motion to) be found indigent. After strenuous deliberations with his counsels, GZ made an informed choice: no indigency Motion should be filed. O’Mara could not act contrary to the explicit directives of GZ. That GZ realized post-conviction that he got his priorities wrong – based on phantasy and fussy math does not make this any different.

Based on the above, it must be concluded that O’Mara’s “performance” (i.e. not filing for finding of indigency) was NOT “deficient” within the meaning of the Sixth Amendment. O’Mara rendered a “reasonably effective assistance given the totality of the circumstances.”

Questions (b) and (c):

Questions b and c are moot because of the lack of “deficient performance”. I would also add that no showing can ever be made that GZ required any expert witnesses of his own for his defense. Indeed, all the expert witnesses on the Prosecution’s list are also on the defense list. Defense counsels have deposed all these witnesses and had the ability to- and in fact did call all of them as their own witnesses and/or cross-examined them as prosecution’s witnesses. Furthermore defense counsels requested and were granted extra time to produce their final witness list. Defense counsels would not be making such a request if they thought the defense had no money to hire expert witnesses. No showing has been- or could ever be made that additional expert witnesses would have added anything new and substantive to GZ’s defense.

Don’t know if it changes anything or of any interest but just found this. It’s a bit reminiscent of the other CFNews article I linked here a few posts back as the first to report on the Martins settlement. This article states:

We have learned that the homeowners association’s insurance company did not have to pay out a claim on the case.

With this are they still referring to Travelers, i.e. old news, or are they now talking about another insurance company one of those that was thought to be one of the settlers.

Interesting. Given the half-assed reporting going on in this case, it’s hard to know what such a vague sentence means. It could be that the HOA’s current insurer did not payd, but that wouldn’t exclude its insurer at the time of the shooting, or the carrier for the HOA’s management company.

In addition (and I may be waaay off on this) is there a possibility of a payout from the insurer for the vehicle Fogen drove during the stalking?

Don’t remember if Fogen leased or owned, but his vehicle was a part of what happened that night, not to mentiony on Fogen’s numerous other patrol excursions.

What a mess… Perhaps, if they want to cry broke, they should turn the beg-a-thon rights over to the court, after all, if there are people still willing to defray the defense expenses, there is no reason at all that they should be turned away by the state. But that means that ALL, beg-a-thon rights are turned over, not some mishmash of personal family begsites working in parallel. No, until the state has recovered every cent of the public’s funding, the right to any and all earnings must go to satisfy this fund first.

Of course, I can’t see why anyone would want to fund a hands down loser. As the record shows, they’ve foolishly burned through and wasted some 300k plus on non-essential claptrap, trying to sell the public an image, instead of analyzing the collected evidence against them and trying to find a reasonable alternative explanation that might cast some doubt on what the prosecution will offer.

Instead MOM is prepared to attempt to make wild hand waving oratory suffice as a defense, in hopes that such fare will confuse the jurors, thus disable them from making a clear decision.

“Thanks goodness there are some honest people to report the truth about Trayvon. He was indeed a violent thug and thief. His playing a “knock out game” with George (violent fist attack on George) is UNDERSTANDABLE from his past history – as recorded by the Miami Police Force. Thanks!”

_________________________

And I see NOTHING absolutely NOTHING that says ANYTHING like ANY of that. There is NOTHING to back that up. I don’t know how they come to that, but they are saying it is fact so I don’t want to hear their crap about GZ should sue this and that, Trayvon’s estate should sue THEM!!!!!

How they can be allowed to make up such bullsoot and post it as fact is beyond me.

Such people tell you, “My point exactly!” when you entirely refute what they’ve been saying. Their point exactly is to badger, hector, and harass others into silence, in order to exercise the domineering side of their characters.
IMO.

Rachael, I have given up to read their framing of the story. I only read the files. The sad story is that there are people out there that can be and will be influenced by it.

The closer you look into matters the more confuse it gets.

In a nutshell, so Charles Hurley filed a complained after records from the school police were published by the Robles, Miami Herald. There does not seem to be an appropriate FOIA request relating to the issuance of the documents. The only one received from Laura Isensee, on March 21, was denied.

So yes, what Hurley as the chief of MIami school police did. is what he should have done at that point, after all the school’s principal had complained too. He works with these people and had to respond to their complaints. Besides, his move is clearly supported by the law, which states these files should have never been released and are protected. So it is not just about a complaint but concerns a breach of law he has to follow up on.

During the depositions of the officers we then encounter allegations that Hurely was at the center of a cover up concerning especially black student’s delinquency. I think that’s in the file concerning the officer that was asked for the files by Randy Smith SPD. The officers admit in their depositions that they did not follow the rules in their day to day release of files to other agencies, but that on the other hand dealing with the matters they felt they discovered a deliberate “cover up” of black student’s delinquencies, suggesting that Trayvon Martin was one of them. Interestingly they already add other allegations of misconduct against Hurely, like e.g. discrimination based on age and bullying. Interestingly Hurley may have been connected with an educational program concerning bullying. Now we have additionally two black female officers accusing Hurely of sexual harassment. They have filed their complaints not at the same time but are both represented by one of the most high profile black attorney’s in Florida. My head admittedly starts to spins.

If any one tries to make sense of these matters while not at least referring to the odd chronology of events, he has a political agenda. But we know that from the CTL crowd, don’t we?

In any case I would be very interested in who alerted Frances Roble’s to the “cleared/not cleared” – case files. So far it seems she did not ask for them via FOIA request, the Herald’s intern Laura Isensee did. Was the FOIA request denied but the files not shredded as claimed after faxed to Randy Smith but passed on the either Laura Isensee anonymously or to Robles herself. All the officers vigorously deny this. Or were they passed on from SPD? After all Robles dutifully reported the SPD position of the statistics of burglaries and criminal incidences in RTL and “one shooting” that drew Malisha’s attention, since it was repeated over and over again. She probably got these informations from Morgenstern, the media spokesperson at the time. At one point there were rumors surrounding Morgenstern when the interim police chief took over. I think there was another leaked document concerning this. I have not paid attention to Morgenstern after that. … Who else could have been aware of the documents?

Editorial interns are assigned to assist reporters or are given their own assignments when they aren’t performing other lesser tasks or fetching coffee, but they don’t “work for” reporters.

Interns don’t publish anything. Neither do reporters. They file copy/updates with their editors that in turn is presented at budget meetings where higher-ups within newsroom pecking order determine what gets published and on what page. Headlines are typically written by copy editors, many who also handle pagination. In print: “Run it out front,” means page 1A. “Stick it above the fold” means 1A on top half of page. “Give it a good ride” at a budget meeting means play it prominently, but depending on other breaking news of the day, that can vary from 1A or 1B to back with the classifieds . Internet play has its own parlance.

“on to the intern Laura Iseensee”. I have to admit, I would know more about this lady. She filed her FOIA request on March 21, that is four days after Robles wrote this:

The answer may lie in police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death.

This statement drew Malisha’s attention.

Did Isensee work for Robles as intern. Was Robles in any way one of the people she had to ask before publishing anything? Or did she respond and pick up on Robel’s article herself. Hoping to land an investigative coup?

In any case it shows that there is no single misleading media position in these early stages. But that the SPD obviously somehow managed to get their special point of view into media quite easily and obviously this view led to the tainting of TM. It is obviously an enormous double standard to claim that media only misrepresented poor Fogen’s action (is unitron still around?) it rather shows that immediately after the shooting and the statements by Lee that everything supported Fogen’s narrative their was also a special interest in painting Trayvon to fit the tale, this action in fact triggered the search for Trayvon’s flaws almost automatically. The family had to respond to that. But maybe they couldn’t have as easily, hadn’t Trayvon been on the phone that night.

Editorial interns are assigned to assist reporters or are given their own assignments when they aren’t performing other lesser tasks or fetching coffee, but they don’t “work for” reporters.

Interns don’t publish anything. Neither do reporters. They file copy/updates with their editors that in turn is presented at budget meetings where higher-ups within newsroom pecking order determine what gets published and on what page. Headlines are typically written by copy editors, many who also handle pagination. In print: “Run it out front,” means page 1A. “Stick it above the fold” means 1A on top half of page. “Give it a good ride” at a budget meeting means play it prominently, but depending on other breaking news of the day, that can vary from 1A or 1B to back with the classifieds . Internet play has its own parlance.

Thanks, TO, I meant assist when I wrote the less specific “work”. In the sense could Robles have asked her to get the files for her?

It seems she was intern and she did in fact publish. If I am not relying on misinformation on the web. I know a US journalism graduate, who did in fact publish as intern.

Apart from researching for others, over here in my times you could always write as an intern, apart from doing research or footwork for others, although it was more difficult to convince people to write on something you wanted to write on.

“Give it a good ride” at a budget meeting means play it prominently, but depending on other breaking news of the day,

This was quite interesting and in a way reminded me what we call the pyramid shape of news over here, supposedly the most important details on top and the least important or more detailed matters more at the bottom or towards the end. When many have stopped to read. That’s the same system inside the specific new item.

When I got hooked on US politics a decade ago, against my better will, some people were observing carefully that some really important news were buried somewhere inside. Considering the almost unisono support of the Iraq war, they had gotten more interested in the news business. And as a result in matters like “balance”.

Notice I did never belong into the inside job camp, but it was interesting observing what was going on in the US. The opportunistic use of 911 by the Bush administration seemed to have a degree of self-fulfilling prophesy. When Condi Rice was over here in Germany she said this:

After 1989 everyone asked himself, who would be our new enemy now. Then 911 happened and everyone knew.

She sounded almost pleased. The military complex in search of new markets, cynicism alert.

That’s interesting, my stepson did the same thing at around 14 years old. I called the cops to have him picked up to take him, to teach him a lesson also, (california) and the refused to, said it was a family issue and we needed to handle it ourselves since the car was returned.

I still don’t see what their point is, in attempting to link this to Trayvon. While he may have unknowingly benefitted from the practice, if all they say is true (and we know what the chances of that are) it still falls into the purview of the DOJ investigation into how LE handled Trayvon’s murder and has nothing to do with the murder itself.

I don’t even see how O’Mara could try to examine the officers involved on SPD’s end, without BDLR objecting and demanding O’Mara show some kind of relevance to fogen’s actions, which I don’t believe O’Mara can do.

While I do see that such practices need to be exposed and those who initiated/participated should be held accountable, they seem to be saying (at least in the comments) that Trayvon not only actively participated in it, but was instrumental in its inception, which is absurd. This is nothing more than another (bad) attempt to further thuggify Trayvon, by connecting him to a scandal he was unknowingly and tangentially connected to, in an attempt to justify his murder.

Basically, it is a lot of time and money spent for nothing. (JMO)

Unless, (and I’d need other, more experienced posters to weigh in on this), could O’Mara attempt to show that Serino had this information and withheld/buried it, in an attempt to show Serino as being “corrupt” and then moving to suppress any evidence Serino collected, including fogen’s police statements taken by Serino?

We know DeeDee is not the star witness, fogen is through his police statements. Suppress the police statements (and attempt to impeach DeeDee) and fogen’s prosecution does become a bit more difficult. Hmmm, not saying this is the case – just brainstorming and trying to look beyond the obvious (thuggfication) to see if this could potentially have any genuine impact on fogen’s trial… or maybe I just watch too much Law and Order. 😦

They are sick, crazy and twisted. They are blaming a whole practice they think is wrong on Trayvon – and his parents. If that system is wrong, it is their fault, is how they think. If some black person commits a crime, it is Trayvon and his parents’ fault. They have demonized Trayvon and his family to the point that everything wrong in the world is their fault.

You are right, NOTHING about this ties into the fact that GZ KILLED Trayvon that night. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING. But as long as they can believe that somehow Trayvon and his family are bad, wrong, evil, black, thug people, they can believe he deserved to die for no reason at all.

But none of it has anything to do with what happened that night. GZ did not shoot Trayvon because he had attendance problems, because he got caught with pot residue at school, because he got suspended.

GZ shot Trayvon because he is a well…you know how it goes.

I am really sick of those idiots over there blaming all the social ills of the world on Trayvon and his family. It gets ridiculous sometimes.

They’re not only trying to “thugify” Trayvon, they’re trying to insinuate that any black child who has done anything in a Miami school and has been suspended is a thug. They support a school to prison pipeline, basically, rather than a system that tries to divert kids into programs to modify their behavior.

One of my children was suspended from a school in a SW state for ten days because the principal decided his hair was too long. They tried to make him out to be a thug as well. I know only too well what kind of people frequent the Treestump.

Fortunately, not all cops like to see kids dragged to jail from school campuses – and when I worked as a teacher, I saw all too much of this – and also handicapped kids dragged around by school cops as a “lesson” when they were better off put into timeout in their classrooms. Anyway, here is a dissenting comment:

Re: IA Files via Freedom of Information Act

Postby Good Guy II » 04/14/13 11:14:16
Taking children to jail for petty offenses, especially in the numbers this agency did, is shameful and unwarranted. There is a nationwide movement to address this problem as it is systemic to the profession of police work.
In fact it should be further tightened, and law enforcement should not be limited to making only select misdemeanor arrests. How many juveniles will forever have their lives blemished with arrest records because a overzealous school cop arrested them for a minor infraction?

In my opinion, Miami schools probably had a problem with dragging off too many brown kids from school to jail while likely allowing white kids more leeway, and they were / are probably trying to address this inequity.

In fact, the Southern Poverty Law Center has been working on this school to prison pipeline for several years. But of course the Conservative Treestump would probably refer to the SPLC as being part of what they call the BGI – black grievance industry. I notified the SPLC about school practices in the SW state I formerly lived in – they had not yet included that state in their work but they do now.

There was just a discussion about something similar in the local news where I live. We are like one of three states that allow juvenile information and actually sell it for something 69 cents per name. It is said that you can have your juvenile record sealed or expunged, but the thing is, these people sell it immediately so that by the time you get something sealed, it has already been sold.

For instance what happened here is a 15-year-old kid took his mom’s car for a joy rid. She called the police, wanted him to be picked up and arrested to scare him. He spent 2 years in juvie for auto theft and that information got sold so when he is an adult, it is on his record and he cannot get a job, and apartment, etc. However, a kid in California who did the same thing, can come here at 18 and get a job that would have been a local kids’ job.

So what happens is if you get in a fight in jr. high and hurt someone…

Well you know, kids change.

So we are selling kids lives for 69 cents a piece in the state where I live.

Should a kid who gets in a fight in jr. high or acts like a rebellious teen and takes their mom’s car at 15 be punnished to the point of when he is 18 not being able to get a job or an apartment? Kids, especially boys, change a WHOLE lot between 15 and 18+

Thanks. tsoas, interesting reminder, I have been to that site before, this comment is even better.

if you were a teacher you must be aware that juvenile “delinquency” and psychological problems may well be occasionally related. But do the appropriate tools and institutions for dealing with it exist?.

I am absolutely you sure whoever ordered TM’s suspension, had he been allowed to take a view into the future, would have question his or her own decision.

I was suspended for not appearing in a skirt as was obligatory for girls in summer, and for hitting my chemistry teacher on the hand when it approached among others causes. Allowing him to paw you was the female guarantee for getting better grades, but not really my choice ever. To this day I question the wisdom for the suspensions at the time. What exactly is gained pedagogically if you force people to miss classes?

That’s a dreadful practice, Rachael. I thought juvenile records were automatically sealed in most states. Voters in your state need to pitch a fit about the practice of selling information about juveniles. That’s the entire reason we have a separate juvenile justice system – to divert these youngsters as well as allow them some leeway for mistakes.

Leander – I’m sorry you were abused in that manner when you were in school!

Most if not all states in the US have state mental health programs available to students with issues – there was a corresponding push with the get tough on crime and drug war movements to criminalize any little thing that students did in some states, but there has also been the ability for schools to deal with their own disciplinary problems along with parental support rather than criminalize the child. As your and my son’s experiences show, sometimes school administrators are corrupt as hell. In the state where my kids were schooled and especially in the district where I worked in and my schools went to schoo in, principals were like little dictators and their schools run like little fiefdoms.They really had no one to answer to – even the district superintendant and the county superintendants had little recourse to do anything about school administrators who were abusing students and families. I had to complain to the Federal Board of Education to get any relief for my son, and even then, it took quite a long time and that particular principal was only moved to another school two years later. However, our family was certainly not the only family abused by this horrible, small-minded racist man and hopefully things improved for other students at that particular school.

<blockquoteUS have state mental health programs available to students with issues

tstas, I do not really have “issues” in mind, more things that may be considered issues through a narrowed lens, but that may really be related to age, developmental stages. You can kill the desire to learn and ask questions and not only make people repeat the same things all over again and again on these early stages.

Some kids may need more space to find out to develop and find out who they really are and what they want. Rigid unreflected rules in which they have to function like little soldiers may not be the right thing for everyone. I am just as critical concerning our .average psychiatric institution, by the way.

But I guess my main problem is strongly enforced conformity. Something that surfaces for me in GZ. Remember he knows what one does in the rain? he didn’t look like he was, he didn’t … and as a result there must be something wrong with him? If TM does not fit into any of GZ’s patterns of normality? One does, not I would, he, she it does. I know it’s an obsession, but I also had to deal with this type of people an a larger than average scale being born 5 years after 1945. Rigid enforcement to conformity is for the first step to make people function, like faceless little soldiers, that will never asking questions besides do what they are told one does, what one has to think. Only with these type of people something like that could happen.

TSTAS: In most places juvenile records are sealed, but not in Washington state. Almost all of your juvenile records remain open for the public to view, unless you ask a court to “seal” them. You must meet certain requirements to be eligible to have your record sealed – and fill out forms and go to court.

Part 7 of this drivel is just as useless as Parts 1-6. I wonder what kind of people really believe this stuff? Do they have children themselves? If they do, I bet they practice double standards regarding THEIR “criminality”.

Reminds me of the parents in a Georgia school whose kids were involved in a massive (and potentially dangerous) food fight in the cafeteria after being warned NOT to by the principal. Nine were suspended for the rest of the school year and were criminally charged. Their parents thought it was “too severe”. The kids didn’t think it was fair because they were just “having fun”.

A repost because want to make sure you all are able to read it. An email, i sent to Mr nutcracker…..Kelly Payne
Dear Mr cracker or Bradman which ever you prefer. Your continued lies and slander against Trayvon and his family are quite disgusting. You know as well as i do That Trayvon was not killed in self defense. You also know as well as i do that Trayvon was begging for his life when he was killed. You know as well as i do that Zimmerman had Trayvon restrained by his shirts when he killed him. Trayvon was no match for a 208lb bouncer by himself in a fair fight Zimmerman could have snapped his neck like a twig. But we know based on the evidence you chose to ignore that Trayvon never touched him. In a fair fight the police would have found an unconscious teenager and an angry adult. Whether Trayvon missed 53 days of school is unknown,but highly unlikely because in most states if your child missed more than 20 he is called truant and the parents are taken to court. There are no known reports of Trayvon being deeply involved in drugs. Smoking weed a few times with your friends does not make you deeply involved in drugs.Also not relevant Another one of your lies. You are taking advantage of peoples ignorance and stupidity. The only one with a thug history is Zimmerman. Now you have a new one,Trayvon has a suppressed Criminal record. he never had any record. you are making assumptions and lying. No one knows why he was transferred from his other school there was a rumor he was bullied at that other school which was never confirmed. Also not relevant. You mention MMA style blows. an obvious lie. Trayvon never knew martial arts mixed or otherwise.If he had Zimmerman would have ended up in the hospital and Trayvon would still be alive. The man who said that has changed his story numerous times. His gun was on his right rear hip. It would have been impossible for him to grab it the way he described. Trayvon would never have seen it. the only way he could have grabbed his gun the way he described is if he knocked trayvon off then grabbed his gun aimed and shot him. His head was never repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk for nearly a minute.If it had he would not have been in any condition to fire a gun.Those injuries on the back of his head are 1 round puncture wound and 1 inch long cut.the blood from those wounds flow toward his face.He was not on his back when he got those injuries. . He did not get those from a side walk. He got those from a metal object. Trayvon never tried to smother him another obvious lie. He was never punched in the face 12 times or 30-40 times. All he had were scratches. no bruising no swelling no black eyes no broken nose. As for lying Zimmerman has done nothing but lie. maybe you and him belong together. Whether Dee Dee went to Trayvon’s funeral or to the hospital or somewhere is irrelevant and not material to the case.the only thing relevant is why there was a funeral in the first place.
If Zimmerman had left Trayvon alone he wouldn’t be in trouble. You continue to trot out that lie that Trayvon was a gang member despite the fact he was unarmed. No gang member goes anywhere with out their weapons which these days would be a gun. If trayvon had been a gang member he would have put a bullet in his head just for following him. And we would never have heard of Zimmerman he would just be another statistic. You call trayvon a thug while trying to intimidate a witness. Which as it turned out those girls were not the Dee Dee you have been looking for. Keep it up when you get criminal charges you will have no one to blame but yourself. You so called conservatives always talk about morals christian values honesty and decency. You have no morals you are not honest and you were never a decent man. You are not a christian either. A true christian would not pull the crap you’ve been pulling and he would not support a murderer and slander a murder victim. I can’t speak for the Martin/Fulton family but if it were me i would have sued you long ago. So keep.posting those lies. You will eventually Dig yourself a hole you can’t get out of. There is never a justification for killing an unarmed person,especially a kid. If someone hits you you hit them back you don’t use a gun. Have a nice day KELLY D PAYNE.

@kllypyn
Thank you kllpyn. That’s infinitely more readable than in u/c and it’s so nice to be able to read what you have to say… which is a hell of a lot I should add ! 😉

But… and I wouldn’t be me without a “but” as legibility and communication is what my work is all all about… as a further tip, and with no offence meant, if you could the following it would be perfect:

a) To paragraph what you write

b) To remember to press the spacebar after a full-stops

Take into account that so many lines of text at such a small on screen point size, make it difficult for the human eye to follow without jumping line up or down and/or missing or repeating one every so often, causing readers to lose track which takes away concentration from your text. A solution can be to follow with a ruler line by line, but that is impractical on a computer screen and it doesn’t facilitate fluid reading and/or comprehension either. 🙂

Kilypyn — Thank you for your important thoughts, well worth wading through, even though it wasn’t easy. I must echo recommendations of gbrbsb.

Please, please, please: If you want readers to stick with you, then present your ideas, observations and interpretations on this tragedy in short paragraphs. Otherwise, many readers won’t even start to tackle your message.

You went to all the trouble of retyping in upper and lower case, yet you shortchanged yourself by stringing sentences into difficult to read blocks of type.

do NOT retype it. Highlight it, right click, choose COPY from the mouse menu. Then move to a new text box, right click in it, choose PASTE from the mouse menu.

Then just go through it with the arrow keys., When the cursor, a line like this | gets to the end of a sentence, hit the Enter key. This will give you a new paragraph.

For clear easy to read text, the usual ting is to put ONE space after a comma and TWO spaces after a full stop.

Make a new paragraph every 2 or 3 sentences, or when the train of thought moves to a new topic or new aspect. This will make your great posts easy to read, so more people will see how great they are.

If you really have trouble seeing lower case, or using the shift keys, try typing in Word or some other word processor. These have an option which lets you highlight the text and convert it to “Sentence case” which will capitalise the first letter.

@kllypyn
I came back to check something I saw on the post and scrolling down I saw Trained Observer’s and aussie’s comments also egging you on. I am so pleased because I know you are almost there, and you have a lot to say and willing readers to boot!

As aussie says you don’t need to re-type anything ever, just follow the tips and do the “cut & paste” as it’s called. If you have a word processor some, like my old version of MS word, automatically change to upper case the first letter after a full stop or in modern versions you may have to chose that option as aussie says.

So please, just keep writing with with a few improvements and we’ll keep reading… and that’s a deal from me at least!

Form my favorite poet…Robert Service…this one seems appropriate for Fatfogen…

The Reckoning….By R. W. Service….

It’s fine to have a blow-out in a fancy restaurant,
With terrapin and canvas-back and all the wine you want;
To enjoy the flowers and music, watch the pretty women pass,
Smoke a choice cigar, and sip the wealthy water in your glass.
It’s bully in a high-toned joint to eat and drink your fill,
But it’s quite another matter when you
Pay the bill.

It’s great to go out every night on fun or pleasure bent;
To wear your glad rags always and to never save a cent;
To drift along regardless, have a good time every trip;
To hit the high spots sometimes, and to let your chances slip;
To know you’re acting foolish, yet to go on fooling still,
Till Nature calls a show-down, and you
Pay the bill.

Time has got a little bill — get wise while yet you may,
For the debit side’s increasing in a most alarming way;
The things you had no right to do, the things you should have done,
They’re all put down; it’s up to you to pay for every one.
So eat, drink and be merry, have a good time if you will,
But God help you when the time comes, and you
Foot the bill.

Who knows? The wackos may still donate. You know Omara will do and say whatever to get donations, as has been repeatedly shown. I am sure the donors will still make Omara jump thru hoops for their $20 or so dollars

Cielo, GZ is one of a kind. He is obsessed with Shellie and only Shellie can make him happy – no other woman. GZ will do anything to physically be with Shellie – including pay a $100.000.- bond! That says a lot about GZ’s state of mind. When Shellie ultimately begins to make beautiful babies with another man, GZ will go crazy with grief and depression and be forcibly admitted to a mental institution. You know, guys like GZ either can’t- or just don’t know when and how to ‘let go’ of a woman. They weep and mourn daily while imagiging what that other guy would be doing with their lost babe/wife at specific times of the day, especially at nigth. This drives some of them to suiced. Others end up in mental institutions.

She only said there will be crazy women who want him. But I believe you are right about him not thinking anyone else will do. It is pretty common in abusive men where they have this obsession, and I do believe he is physically and emotionally abusive towards women.

Oh, trolls. I’m starting to understand them; they hope to provoke the maximum number of viewers. It’s no comfort, but the Boston Globe site article about the marathon bombing is full of “I drilled your mother”-type comments, just to get people more upset. I also notice that the nasty comments shown in your link have mostly no “favorite” votes. One at most, probably entered by Fogen himself.

This BS out of these trashy racist don’t make no sense at all. I feel so sorry for Trayvon and his parents/family because, they don’t deserve to be mistreated like this. according to some of the racist tweets, it would have been fine for him to wear that shirt, if it had just the photos of the white kids from Newtown on it.

I know that there is a special place in hell for these people. and, it’s like someone else said, this country is the way that it is, because of people like these bigots who are so ignorant to the point, that they think it’s OK to murder AA children. I wonder how would they feel, if something like this happened to them and, people gave them a taste of their own medicine.

Most of them probably also pretend to be Christians. They have obviously never read the Bible or know anything about Jesus. His whole mission is about love. His love extends to everybody, not just people who looks like Him. And he especially loves children and despises those who mistreat children in any way. These hate filled racists have no chance of ever getting close to what they believe to be heaven, but IF they did they would be so surprised to see that the very ones they spew lies about will be at the door welcoming the true saints.

These IMBECILES and, all of their ignorance just make me downright sick, just knowing they are a part of the human race. they are what makes this country out to be a target for incidents like the one that happened yesterday. they in all of their ignorance, are followers of the moron who burned the KORAN.

They are in no way shape or form, the be all and end all of this country. they are living on stolen land and, they damn well know it. I’m not going to ask when will their racist ignorance end because, it never will because, this is who they are. they are also the lowest form of life when it comes to them hero worshiping the murderer of a child.

Also, I’m sick of them pointing out all of the murders of whites by AA in this country. I am not aware of any whites who have been murdered by AA. where are they getting this BS from? I have been reading this BS from them on every blog site that, they have sniffed out in order to shift attention from this case and, and make poor Trayvon out to look like a common criminal. what these people are doing is heart breaking.

What is wrong with some of the people of the world? it seems as though things are getting worse instead of better. I’m wondering if this was done to make Obama look as though he is not worthy to lead this country, for another term. I wouldn’t put it past someone to do this just for that reason.

This world is not going to last for to much longer because of all of the evil people in it.

Could it be donations have dried up because MOM & Co have scared there support base away by basically renouncing the SYG and/or Immunity Hearing. I would think that the concealed carrying racist GZ supporters, i.e. donors, are looking to back cases proving you can shoot to kill at the minimum threat and and walk away with little or no hassle, legal fees, etc. Since GZ’s case is going for a full blown trial (I don’t believe MOM’s bs about they can still go for the immunity later on) his supporters have lost interest.

I wonder if some *might* have even seriously been interested in self-defense and regardless of whether or not they now believe this really was self-defense, they do know that the defense IS rooted in racism and they don’t want any part of that.

@Rachael
Of course, I’m looking at this from UK culture. The racist bit was not important to what I was saying so I should have omitted it. Even those like JM who I am sure is not racist carries a gun (as a lawyer in the US it is arguable she could need it… her clients etc.) and appears to be a ferocious supporter of CCW and SYG etc. And that is the problem from our side of the divide. If the US has one of the highest rates per capita of death by gunshot we take the view you can only blame yourselves for allowing so many guns and allowing a lobby like the NRA to become so powerful it goes against the majority. So although I can believe that some supporters may have changed there mind about GZ’s guilt and seen a racial element that has put them off supporting him, (IMBW, but I didn’t think the racial element has been proven in this case at least BARD anyway) it seems most gun carrying Americans are desperate to protect the gun laws and the SYG or Immunity law above anything, above even GZ walking away from a murder if it serves their bloody cause. This is my opinion nothing else.

SYG is a gimmick used to make gun carriers fell good. No need or CCW either. Self-defense was always intended for the home or road travel (a trucker for example) never for bar fights or chasing kids around at night. This is a good case to set guidelines for the gun nuts

The donations practically dried up last year after GZ made his second bond. He went on Hannity in effort to increase the number of supporters and beg for money. Then he tried Barbara Walters and made a fool out of himself again.

Most of his supporters just wanted him to make bond. In general, if people cannot afford to live free on bail, they stay in jail. Who would have thought that donating to GZ was also supporting ShelLIE?

I believe his Hannity cameo is what did his beg site in as far as him getting the donations like he was receiving before he blamed GOD for what he himself did. also, his smirking and smiling didn’t help him either. I honestly can’t stand the sight of him and, I hope he is convicted for what he did to that child.

@Xena
I still think gun toting supporters felt the case wasn’t so useful to them when Mom announced no SYG.

Anyway, off topic, and off the top of that formidable head of yours, you wouldn’t happen to remember, if disclosed, exactly where the Skittles were found in relation to the crime scene (the evidence trail maps don’t appear to show them); in which police report if any there finding is noted; and whether any forensic report has so far been disclosed for them?

Anyway, off topic, and off the top of that formidable head of yours, you wouldn’t happen to remember, if disclosed, exactly where the Skittles were found in relation to the crime scene …

The Skittles were found in a pocket — IIRC, a hoodie pocket. Trayvon’s blood was found on the Skittles, which leads me to believe that GZ touched Trayvon’s wound and also searched his pockets, transferring the blood.

No idea. Maybe forensic test results, rather than photos, is what is necessary for trial.

Yeah, I suppose it is as simple as that. Thanks again. Just seen the conversation and sorry I seem to have caused a bit of a mix up with my question but thanks to everyone for their effort and the extra information too.

I’m not Xena, of course – but I can answer a couple of your questions. The skittles were found in Tayvon’s pocket. They were swabbed and tested, for blood DNA which was found to be Trayvon’s. It is listed in the evidence lists of items submitted last March 20 for GSR and DNA tests, sent in with the clothes, flashlights, the picture button (which was not reported as tested)and other evidence found at the scene. These reports are in the first dump, relatively close to the beginning. I can’t remember the exact page numbers, but I want to recommend starting your search in the page 20s. They will come right after the testing of the gun and holster which were tested at the beginning of March 2012. Hope that helps.

There is a trace of the skittles in the report of Stacie McCoy, 1st discovery, p. 17. Personally I do not completely trust her report, but that may be misguided. My distrust is a result of her much later arrival time in the log files of the 7th discovery. Stacie McCoy was the on duty supervisor for the event. The apparent chaos on the scene on that night somehow feeds this suspicion.

Stacie McCoy: “I observed a package of skittles in the front pocket of the victims sweatshirt. I observed a can of Arizona Iced Tea and a pair of ear phones, in the close proximity to the victim’s body.”

2nd discovery, page 12/AOI/summary interview Raimondo: Ayala did chest compressions until relieved by Sergeant McCoy. He felt a can of tea in his hoodie pocket when he was checking him out. He did not remove it.

Xena, I responded to gbrbsb’s off topic question to you. you may have notice by now. 🙂

I decided not to add anything, but here goes, strictly the records suggest that Raimondo, took the can out of the center pocket when he started CPR and when Stacie McCoy took over from Ayala she felt skittles when she in turn took over CPR. None of the two says s/he took them out. But in the case of the can one can assume it.

Ayala and Raimondo had turned the body over after Ayala had shouted at dead Martin, I suppress a comment, after he was told by Smith he had not yet made contact with the black male.

Ayala later informed Serino, desperately tried to get a tool for finger prints and draw a wrong case file in the whole process.

So, now I shut up again. Oh yes, witness #6 supports there was CPR, the question is what time he talks about. And if he refers to officers or the medical Fire and Rescue staff.

Xena, I responded to gbrbsb’s off topic question to you. you may have notice by now. 🙂

It’s okay — you evidently clicked “reply” to what I posted. No problem. I still miss the point — what’s important about the can of tea being in Trayvon’s pocket? I can see him putting it there in order to run. Not being in the bag is something I question, but not to the point of concentrating on it as part of the prosecution’s case.

This is the old problem, that was already discussed here, Xena, I have no chance to reply to gbrbsb directly. I have no link to reply to. Seems some here had the same problem as me.

No problem. Just as some comments are posted in reply to my comments when they are intended for others, I’m sure I also miss some comments intended for me when they are absent “@ Xena.” I receive comments via email from several different blogs, and I also have my own blog that requires my attention.

When there are hundreds of comments via email, I tend to only read those “@Xena,” delete the rest, and then when time allows, go to the blogs to catch up on other comments.

Believe it or not, starting by saying who the comment is intended for helps.

OT but, for anyone who may be interested in getting one of the bracelets that reads, Walk With Jordan, here is the address. send a stamped self addressed envelope to: Law Office of John Phillips, 4230 Ortega Blvd. Jacksonville Florida 32210. I wish there was one available for Trayvon as well.

True on wiping out the personal debts … but now he’s got a $28,000 lawsuit for security on hand, plus more lawsuits to come, likely from Ben Crump for openers. Also would the HOA like to sue him for not following their NW rules (essentially getting in line behind Crump for whatever book, movie, etc. income that might come his way. Fogen is never going to dig his way out of financial straits, no matter what his plea or trial outcome. Joonyar needn’t count on any windfalls either.

The HOA should sue Zimmerman. I listened to one witness on the HOA board, a gentleman not overconfident witness #11. He was very upset that George did not follow procedures and that he carried a gun. He said he was supposed to observe and report only.

I see that Colonel Airth in that firm represents people in dog bite suits and wrongful death suits. Somebody might need his help soon! (Fogen should have gotten a lawyer instead of a gun when he was scairt by that terrifying pooch!)

Rob Solomon of that firm represents folks in landlord/tenant cases; Fogen could have turned to him rather than the police in his dispute with his landlord!

Well, they HAVE offered themselves up as poster children for racism, greed, gluttony, wrath, and pride. And because the whole world is watching, the farcical deadend defense of O’Mara and West will make them laughingstocks the world over for years to come. GZ’s wannabe lifestyle of the rich and famous will render him the butt of prison jokes for the next 25 to 30 years. Also, there MIGHT be a teachable moment for someone else who wants to play God instead of staying in their lane. And who can argue the fact that all of the supporters who sent them money will hopefully think twice about going into debt because the color of the victim is someone they hate. In other words, the half a million dollars was used to show they are all ignorant dunces. Karma has taken over and is not through with them yet.

I was reading the breakdown of the finances……Seems MOM himself went through 100K for himself…….office supplies and such…
OH and an occasional pizza for the interns…

This would be a question for the Prof…..If fogen does ger declared indigent….and gets a state public defender…..wouldn’t MOM have to pay back fogen?…….OR….could fogen sue him for they monies he’s used?

Professor, Thank you for today’s article and the information about the apparent financial disarray of the Fogen team. Glad tidings!

I’ve had a question for a while about the game O’Mara has played with his a) begging/pleading for donations vs. b) his failure to declare indigence for the defendant. Would Fogen have any post-conviction grounds for appeal on the basis of incompetent representation due to O’Mara’s failure to have sought a declaration of indigence for him–and therefore to have provided him a more adequate defense? If so, could that be an effective strategy for Fogen?

Morph (rest his soul) and I had a discussion about this a couple months ago. He was saying that he didn’t think fogen could appeal on those grounds (ineffective/incompetent counsel) because he has two lawyers.

It was an interesting concept, and there are various legal nuances I don’t understand regarding the counter balance of the two lawyers, and one’s responsibility toward the client in the event the other makes some poor decisions affecting the defense (big picture defense). I’m looking forward to the responses you get on this subject, since it’s a question I’ve wondered about ever since O’Mara started blundering about as if he’s lost in a fog, and West signed up as his sidekick.

Am thinking O’Mara is trying to practice some amateur psychology here. He’s trying to force revelation of the settlement amount and the payer, insurance company(s)

1) To embarrass and maybe stir up boycott trouble
2) To rally new or previous donors: “Well, by dang, those Trayvon people got a million, so I’m gonna send in some of my kids’ college money to help even the score.”

It seems to me (although certainly I don’t know what her limitations and range of power might be) that for Judge Nelson to declare him indigent, she might be within rights to insist on a notarized detailed breakdown of his living expenses … to insist that the begging funds be shut down … and to offer a housing alternative: In other words, back to jail for Fogen, so that he’d have free medical care, dietary supervision, and easy access for a public defender.

Yep, he sure doesn’t want to reveal with being sued by the security company and all.

Does the $10,000.00 in red ink include the balance of the bill from that original 40 grand? This could be a public plea for these security people to back off and feel sorry for O’Mara and his sinking tugboat.

The money that Trayvon’s parents get is because they are entitled to it, yet M’OM and fogen are begging for money that they never earned nor are entitled to and he is just ungrateful spiteful spoiled child who never learned the meaning of the word responsibility. Any other person in this same type of situation would be in jail awaiting their trial and not siphoning money off of people who are stupid enough to contribute to his cause……I see prison time in fogen’s future for his choices and his conviction will not be of a lynch mob , but of a jury of his peers who will see his actions as reprehensible, incorrigible, and downright criminal. He will face the consequences of is actions…

Hmmm, if each one of us were to donate 2 cents daily to his site, causing each donation to result in about a 50 cent loss to his site, (guessing about 1000+ people who read this site regularly) how long would it take for pay pal to shut down his account, and join the list of debt holders to sue Fogen? Talking about “starve the beast”, what a concept…..

What a plan. And when he fails to pony up with the autographed card, can you sue for breach of promise? Maybe a class action suit? MOM could spend the rest of his life sorting out Fogen’s legal issues.

I wonder if they still use paypal. Do they? Doesn’t paypal deduct 3% from everybody but the non-commercial user? For that the fund managment numbers seem too low. How does that now anyway, Fogen? Shellie?

@Pat, they don’t charge to receive money if your not selling something on ebay or somewhere. the donator will check the gift box and there’s no charge from pay pal.
that’s how it was last year.. did it change?

Add a Donate Button to Make Giving Easier
With PayPal, you can easily give your donors several ways of paying you. You start by adding a Donate button to your website, blog, or an email – it takes under 15 minutes.

See how to create a Donate button now.

Using PayPal makes your fundraising mission much easier:

Easily request donations online or from your mobile phone.
Donors just click the link in your email and choose their payment method.
You get tracking capabilities; see all your incoming donations in one place.

Get started:

Sign up.
Create a button.
Paste the button onto your website or blog, or paste the URL link into an email.

The ease of use extends to your donors. Donors simply click on your button or link and choose to pay with a credit card, debit card, or PayPal account. All donations go directly into your PayPal account for easy tracking.

(Please note: Fundraisers that are not verified nonprofits will be asked to demonstrate how their donations will be used, once they raise more than $10,000.)

Best of all, there are no setup costs or monthly fees. You pay only 2.9% + $0.30 USD per transaction (for example, on a $100 donation, you pay a $3.20 fee).

I checked that too, tax exempt institutions get reduced rates, but they do not get it for free.

I looked into that carefully since I sponsored the blog of a US journalist from the moment he started it. When he and his later partners got more professional over the years, they got some type of tax exempt status by becoming “part of The Center for Economic Research and Social Change, a 501(c)(3) organization, contributions to which are tax deductible to the extent provided by law.”

While I cannot deduct my contributions from my taxes over here, I was pretty relieved to not having to figure out how much I had to donate to make it a round sum and that I could use my credit card now. I hadn’t discovered the option to charge my own paypal account for the transfer fees at the time, I think there is such an option..

Discounted Rates for Eligible Nonprofits

If you are not a 501(c)(3), you can still use PayPal with our standard pricing. All other nonprofits pay our standard rates. To receive discounted rates, sign up for a PayPal Business account. Select Nonprofit Organization as the business type and Nonprofit as the category.

Meaning registered non-profits get a reduced rate, if they are not registered they pay the regular fees.

I checked their donation site yesterday. Seems they prefer credit card transfers too exactly for that reason, at least they offer the option.

It’s even more complicated in my case via paypal, since I have to pay additional currency exchange rates. Since I have sponsored quite a few US blogs over the last decade, you can be very sure I looked into these matters closely. In any case I prefer the credit card option.

@leander, some non-profits *sell* things to support their cause, yet it’s called a donation right?
What i’m saying is the policy you quoted looks like it’s for a pay-pal account set up by a seller or a organization, and not applicable to personal accounts for some killer nobody merely to receive donations.

Pay-pal makes money when their a members ( not for selling something, but from a gift ) receive money even w/o taking a fee from them.
I remember an issue i had with them a while ago when i was selling stuff on Ebay when they changed policy to hold the (buyers’) money for several days before releasing it to the sellers ( me ) There was a huge backlash against them and sellers accused them of holding onto our money for the earned interest they get..

so i don’t think gz is being charged a percent from receiving *gifts* he’s not a charity! but i wish he was…and i’d be glad to be wrong! please prove me wrong, if you have the inclination or interest… 🙂

The Paypal fees are usually more hidden. When I looked into matters I found many people on the web that tested it after the button had been set up. They all obviously weren’t aware of the fees or the deductions. And some were very furious about the deduction.

The button in fact helps PayPal to differentiate between friends and family, which are the only transfer that can be done without fees. The assumption being your friends need not transfer money to you via a button like that, since they know your email address. Some may in fact try to trick the system that way. I wasn’t aware of this option, when I started to sponsor a blog, I had in fact the email address. But I used the button.

So they are getting hit with the 30 cent up front fee as they ARE NOT a registered non profit?

Sorry, I mixed up mountainpat, if you allow me to leave out the man, and shannon in Miami (really actually?).

Yes, since these matters are done automatically the transfer of $0.01 should lead to a deduction of 29 cents. But it would need quite a few people, 10.000 such one penny transfers would be needed to deduct $2,900.

So I guess, while it would be fun to do, it is too much work. 😉 And strictly I am not sure if it may result in PayPal account cancellations. I would assume they do not take hitting one of there profitable offers easily. Count the US blogs with paypal buttons who feed this money-machine. Remember, the software is in place it does not need any further attention.

Looking at the development generally, it definitively looks as if th Prof is correct and this “business” will take care of itself. He was right last time, when he wrote they won’t make it. They did not reach their goal of 30,000 per month, they in fact failed it by 40%. As he wrote then, no way they will make it. He was right, and the pessimist I can be, was wrong.

I think the term “mismanaging the funds” for the defense would only have validity to those who look at this case in a realistic manner.

Those donating seem to have alternative reasons (outside logic and reason) to do so. I suspect none of them would consider paying “Poor GZs” living expenses (because they know he cannot work now that he has been so publicly, unjustly accused) a “mismanagement of funds”.

Whoever donates currently will, most likely donate in the future as well as their cause comes to the forefront. I am sure his supporters and their public sites will have another “send GZ $5” campaigns. A few more press interviews about their dire situation and MOM will quickly become the recipient of thousands of dollars again in $5 cash allotments.

I have a strong faith in the illogical ability to rally money “at will” with those die hard GZ supporters.

Hannity doesn’t give a damn about Fogen.
Hannity is all about Hannity.
Hannity thought that interview was gonna be great for him — turned out it was such a bomb that he didn’t even break even. He looked like a caterer at a dumbass party.

How extravagant can your life style be if your afraid to show your face in public without body gaurd an bullet proof vest

Is he liveing in a presidential suite at the Hilton…
As for defence expences what experts are needed he can explain it away on the stand.
Why does an innocent man need experts,
He has had far more legal assistance than your average broke murder suspect would have spent on him useing a Public Defender.

If Fogen does plead guilty, he will be in danger, but not so much from the blacks in the prison system, as he is from the Racists who gave him so much support… I actually expect that he will at least attempt to flee rather than plead guilty….

Not so its the Mexican Mafia whom will want his head on a stick.
As soon as his facebook comments re Mexicans being Cowards ect became public knowlage .

An imeadiate greenlight was given on him ny any member in side Prison or Outside even to kill him.
An they are no NBPP they are the most poerfull Gang within the American Prison system from Texas California Arizona an Florida.

The top guys in thease gangs even the soldiers have mobile phones an wi fi at there dissposal.There Girlfreinds an hommies visit them an tell them what this fool has done an said.

He will have no allies in prison an will have to be held in a vulnerable prisoner wing.Gang members are not stupid an have 24 seven to plot.As well as peodophiles child murderers rapeists .
Ex Gang members are also held in the vulnerable prisner wings.

They get recreation time together yard time together work time together laundry kitchens licance plate stamping in a metal shop.
An were ever he is destained after conviction theres probably already some one or soon to be in place to take him out.Like an undercover pretend snitch turn on the gang senario.

But its manufactured to get him in that vulnarable prison wing to have access to foggagge.
He Dissed Mexicans infront of the entire world an for that they will kill him,,,

He couldnt have picked a worse ethnicity to diss than Mexican Mafia/Avenues the most violent prison gang an powerfull in America.
Both on the street an behind bars
They originated in Californias Prisons but have spread throughout the South Gaurds fear them White power types nazi lowriders skinheads fear them AA are terified of them.

@colin, I agree 100% with you post. Fogen is a fool to disrespect them. He’s more afraid of Mexican Mafia than NBPP. I do believe this is who he really fears. Extending fear of NBPP brought in more donations from racists than if Omar has told media the real fear is the Mexican Mafia.

When he checks into CLUB FED Aryan Brotherhood is not going to call him brother.

Remember Fogen cried all night when he was locked up after arrested. Ya think more tears will grant him any sympathy at CLUB FED, ahhh NO!

@IC2, LMAO I thought I read somewhere that he cried like a baby when he was locked up for the first time and not only that, it’s also been said that he almost went batty when he was locked up. I shudder to think what he will be like, when he is sentenced to time in the big house.

I can see him going mad to the point that, folks will think he’s rabid. I wonder why he cried all night. LMAO

If he manages to flee, his family’s story will be that he got distraught because he realized he could never get a fair trial, and he also realized that if he was acquitted (which he probably would be, according to their “reality”) there would be riots that would just tear America apart, and he loved America so much he had to leave to prevent that. And Gladys will blame the system and Dershowitz will go on the air and say Fogen was right, he could never have had a fair trial. Bets?

Osterman put up him and Shellie for several weeks. He left first after the NBP bounty but she stayed on with them for awhile longer. Osterman was the one who put the bug in his ear about needing to fear the friends and family of the person he shot…..even though Trayvon had not yet be ID’d and for that reason he never went back to the townhome.

@towerflower thanks, I wasn’t sure. I didn’t know Fogen left Osterman and returned. Fogen did leave that night after his release, long before NBPP got involved. Osterman also may wanted to keep Fogen and Shellie close in attempt to cover his own involvement. BDLR did ask Fogen about his texts that mentioned Tracy Martin.

@IC2, that is exactly why Osterman hid the murderer and his wife out they way he did. he didn’t want Fogen talking to anybody without him “Osterman” being right there with him. this is why he was present at the police station and, if I make no mistake he was also present for the reenactment. Osterman was there at the time Trayvon was killed and, I believe it was him, who tore out of that complex in his vehicle like a bat out of hell, when that shot was fired.

You can just pick up on him wrestling with something as far as this case is concerned, by his actions and expressions on Dr. Phil’s show. I don’t know about the rest of you guys but, this is the feeling that I got just by looking at him.

Fogen should go on and check in at CLUB FED! Mexican prison gang there will make sure of his safety, slapping Fogen on the head ‘ yeah ain’t that right holmes’. Asking him now what was it you said about running over Mexicans?

To be real, considering how public the whole Fogen KKKlan is, it would not be difficult for anyone to get them, if that was their objective, and to consider that, no one has that objective

The only people who want to get Fogen is the state for murdering the kid, the FBI wants to get Fogen for murdering that kid, and the family wants to sue the pants off him, the AIS want Fogen for screwing them out of money, and that is about it

From May to Dec. 2012 about 18% of the sponsored money was spent on security. Now from Jan-March it was 1% of expenditures. But from March to April it did rise again to 9% of the total expenditures. If you look at the monthly rate for security it is 92% lower than the monthly average for 2012.

But this does not have a similar effect on the budget needed for living and security. In 2012 36% of the total sponsor money was spent on Fogen’s living and security needs, 32% for all the law related categories, and 30 for the bond. Fogen does still need 30% of the money spend for himself. But didn’t he tell his supporters that even on his homemade website?

More impressive is this pompous security self-aggrandizing project, if you project the numbers to annual rates. His 8 month of living and security needs in 2012 would result in annual expenditure rate of $176,771.31. Based on the numbers from Jan 1 to April 11, his projected annual living and security needs would now be only a “moderately” $61,450.23 annually.

Excellent breakdown LeaNdr. Murderer Fogen is living better than those who sent him money. Something seriously wrong with that. You’re right true security should be zero. They will be making drastic financial changes in the upcoming weeks. I highly doubt donations will surge in the next few weeks.

Omar won’t shut down paypal to claim Fogen indigent fearing he’ll miss out on a surge of donations.

Could the argument to open the settle agreement to the public, really be about future damage control by O’Mara? If it will do damage as Crump argued, the defense would want to throw a wrench in future claims?

It is rapidly reaching the point where Fogen has only a few choices, non of them good for him. He can plead guilty and spend a long time in prison (solitary for his protection), he can cut and run (that would be suicide), or he can simply wait until he is convicted and the evidence is shown to his new BBF (fellow prisoners) giving him a chance to enjoy his new live as some ones new girl friend… Too bad he has brought all of this upon him self!!

I have said many times (only to be told it can’t happen) that I think that is what will ultimately happen if Fogen has half a chance! I question the truthfulness of the accounting of how much he has spent and how much he has stashed away for a quick dash to freedom! To those that say it is not possible with out a passport, consider that he is also a citizen of Peru, and do we know for sure he does not hold a passport from there? I suppose we will know soon enough what his intentions are…

@Two side to a story, I do remember when BDLR exposed the passports in court, he told Judge Nelson that they were investigating if Fogen has any ties because of his mother Peruvian citizenship or her ties.
So for now BDLR has not released findings of that part of the investigation. We do know court won’t let Fogen of his GPS leash if BDLR investigation of Fogens’ Peruvian ties has anything to do with it I don’t know.

I have always and still do feel that a plea change can and maybe will happen. Just look at the mess the defense has made and the mess fogen has made. I applaud Sabryna for not making a 3 ring circus out of Trayvon’s death and not making detrimental comments. I also believe that fogen’s mother is expressing her opinion and defending her son, but she has failed to look at the trail of lies her son has left and the trail of mess his defense has left and the family has failed that person in so many ways, but the main two I will mention are accountability and responsibility, he failed on both of those.

Perhaps fogen is delusional enough to believe the jury will believe his stories or racist enough.This song and dance of Omara’s about not enough money for a good defense could be a way of letting fogen know they are in trouble without being straight forward with him and telling him there is no defense.Omara could also be afraid of some of fogen’s supporters.

Yes, as long as he speaks with a soft quiet voice, how could anyone tell he’s a violent person? Okay, so he’s told a few lies, what the heck, everybody tells lies, eh? So why should that mean anything. But then, no one else was there so who can say that Trayvon wasn’t King Kong ready to take GZ’s life with his bare hands? Just look at those pictures, where’d those wounds come from eh? And don’t forget the undisputed broken nose, man-o-man Omar we’re practically home free. The jurors aren’t going to want to hear all those complicated stories about time and distance, what they’re gonna wanna hear is a decent American!
|||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

More Zimsanity News, is Omar ready and willing to close down paypal donations in order to declare Fogen indigent. I don’t think so, he’ll hold out as long as possible. Can you imagine the embarrassment and backlash from Fogen supporters? Eventually bickering will start over how the money was wasted.

Omar had the nerve telling JN the defense is broke and could not afford experts. So there will not be any experts for the defense. The we read on his site they have spent 3k – 6k on experts???!!!!

The only expert I’ve seen was at the Revoked Bond hearing for the defense a Forensic Accountant who was obvious more concerned about his reputatation. Who choose not to be a potted plant on Primrose Path by telling Judge Lester the truth.

and KA wouldn’t fogen have to go back to jail until trial or would his close family take him in.Wouldn’t a freeze be put on whatever money was in the fund.idk it all seems very complicated ;well to me anyway.I mean Omara can’t have his cake and eat it too.

Can you imagine gz’s humiliation as he’s publicly declared a pauper, especially after basking in the glow of donations from the masses all these months!? he deserves this! him and shellie were gonna have a *great life* once this *little thing* blows over. I mean how’s he gonna get used to not living the lifestyle he’s been made accustomed to?

wanna bet if that happens glayds and papa z will come out and rebuke all their fans for allowing the media to influence and brainwashing them into not taking a second job so they could be supporting their family proper!!

I don’t believe the Fogenites are humiliated by being publicly declared paupers because they cry “victimized us, oh boo hoo” so much and they blame everything on the terrible scheming greedy nasty Bpa-lack Mob, they’ll just add this to the list of their grievances against these terrible people who are not grateful enough for little hero having saved them from a dangerous thug. They’ll still be whining and fussing when the US Supreme denies cert, in 2017.

I thought of another humiliation…the prosecution can clearly state the fogen took many law enforcement courses and was well versed in the law regarding following and profiling citizens. The defense can then turn around and proudly show the court fogen’s 0.5 GPA and smile while they tell the jury what an idiot fogen is. Fogen will be smiling when he is described as a moron.

OperaCarla Not so sure if the Fogenmeister really is stupid, or if he’s purposefully dragging out his education in order to keep those lofty grants and loans pouring in. Just what did he do after he graduated? Did he graduate? Surely his parental units could scrounge up a few pesos for tuition at the local Jr. College. And why hasn’t sheLIE been gainfully employed recently? Has she also been scamming the taxpayers for easy $$$?

according to reports gz went to live in parents home after high school and after some altercation he had up north.

but we have no proof of graduation HS.

we know he lived in lake mary until his parents kicked him to the curb once he was caught and confronted by his uncle for molesting his daughter.
then he was ostracized from the rest of family for that.

then he had a series of jobs he had problems keeping. suing employers and getting fired.
he had issues with room mates and girlfriends.

apparently he also tried to open a business in insurance w. osterman’s wife if i’m correct.
that was a failure also.

then he’s been going to community college for 8-9 years and that’s been a failure because NO ONE takes that long w.o earning at least an AA or something!!LOL

oh and then he also got married and moved into his mother in laws home instead of buying or renting his own home! so he’s a real loser in every aspect.

oh and his financial aid would be cut off for getting less than passing grades.

Wasn’t that “great life” comment enough to make you puke? And then to continue to make light of killing a kid with the “hoodie” comment followed by snickering really ticked me off! The cold and callous attitude that he displayed immediately following killing a kid was another sign that he did exactly what he intended to do and felt nothing of it.

The laughing and some of his comments about authority showed no remorse at all. He is not sorry and will never be sorry for stalking, confronting, terrorizing, bullying and murdering a kid! He is a sick person and does not deserve to walk among the rest of us!

GZ didn’t realize that he did not kill just any ordinary kid, Trayvon Martin is our hero! He lived the life of a normal teenager and GZ did not have to take that life from him, because Trayvon was not a killer. How fitting that Trayvon comes out of this as our hero, while GZ comes out of it as pond scum!

How fitting that Trayvon comes out of this as our hero, while GZ comes out of it as pond scum!

Trayvon is the hero, and Sybrina and Tracy present his legacy by offering comfort to other parents who have also lost their children to violence. 8 yr old Martin was a seeker of peace, and demonstrated his young. loving heart by making a poster for peace after learning about Trayvon Martin.

Oh great, now I’m depressed! I was feeling pretty good until you laid out what has to be one of the most pathetic and laughable story’s that I’ve ever heard. I can’t believe Fogen hasn’t blown himself away years ago! I know I would if I was such an obvious loser and a weasel too boot.

Poor shelLIE, she’s no beauty, but surely she didn’t need to scrape the bottom of the barrel for what has amounted to be less than a pile of barnacles.

Gee I wonder if Joonyah declared war on his molested cousin and her parents for besmirching his bro’s charachter? Or did he too shun him for his debaucherous behavior. And didn’t his cousin say that she knows of another relative that he also molested, who didn’t want to go public? Hmmm.

ic2fools, I’m in strong agreement. Omar will ride the PayPal buckaroo to the bitter end in an effort to squeeze out every last cent. He is hoping for a massive windfall, as fogen received early on. Without any hope of a great fortune appearing, O’Mara will then stand before Judge Nelson, wring his hands, and whine, “I haven’t had the financial resources to hire experts . . . ” Could fogen use this as grounds for an appeal?

O’Mara very likely has his cell phone set to “Ding” every time a donation drops in the pity box. Ka-Ching. As for previous donors, there will be considerable backlash from them as to how their money was squandered. Where in creation’s name did the third of a million dollars go?

Hey GF! Doesn’t seem fair to me that Fogen should be allowed to appeal he should complain about Omar now. He has gotten too many breaks in court as it is. Omar may have him thinking if he does he will get Public Defender. Omar is not about to let Fogen donations out of his sight.

If he does try to appeal it will be from CLUB FED, I highly doubt once in he’ll be getting out on appeal. LMAO, what money would he use to appeal with? He’ll have enough time to learn represent himself and use the Prison Library.

My goodness if we split the money defense fund received between us on this thread great things would be reported what we did with that money. Countless number of sick children lives could have been saved with that type money. Seniors homes that are in foreclosure could have been saved and the list goes on. But noooo, Fogen Fools sent money regardless, they saw it being wasted but won’t admit it was wasted.

I have read a couple of posts some declared they stop sending money because of Omar.
Obviously more have stopped also. The kicker they now realize the money they send will go to Trayvons’ family.

as a matter of fact gz will get a *ding* text every time a donation comes into paypal. but I don’t know if he’s the one getting the ding now that he’s not allowed a bank account, so I don’t how, unless the paypal account can still be connected to his phone number.

I wonder how that’s handled. because paypal has to be set up with your bank no matter what.. maybe it’s in the new trustee’s name and bank so he gets the ding…

@ic2fools. Based on some of O’Mara’s comments, it’s my impression also that he would have to dissolve the trust fund in order to have the court declare GZ indigent. He made comments about GZ not having money for living expenses if declared indigent.

hey xena, have you been getting stalked by some idiot captian-short-slong? cas poor thing can’t get any one to pay attention to it’s ignant rantings!LOL

Nope — no stalkers that I know of. If it’s someone who has cyber-harassed on my blog previously, those IP addresses are in the very capable hands of authorities and comments from those IP addresses are intercepted so my blog doesn’t receive them.

well i haven’t been approving their posts so i didn’t know i could still get their IP but it makes sense that i can… i just haven’t looked..
i was wondering cas i saw the same idiot on Trayvon warriors blog. and figured they’d go after you eventually.. guess they’re busy trying to fantasize up some more BS lies to try to change our minds!LOLOLOLOOLO AS IF! but, that’s just how stupid they are.

guess they’re busy trying to fantasize up some more BS lies to try to change our minds!

Just visited TMWarriors and also added the site to my blogroll. That Zidiot is envious. His blog is nothing more than reblogging what others write and he gets no comments. Like another Zidiot, if it wasn’t for us and other blogs, they would have nothing to write about on their blogs. They are what I call verbal vandals.

Verbal Vandals! a new crime! lol they invented a new criminal activity.

LOL. Zidiots like going where they are not welcomed, and harassing folks they don’t like, but on Word Press, there’s a way of dealing with them. Just like in real life, there’s a way of dealing with harassing folks.

I really don’t understand the amount of the living expenses. I would think $1500 per month should do it, to include a place to live, food, and incidentals. TV should be whatever is available w/o cable or dish. They already paid for their phones. If they have more than one car, sell one or both and use taxi or family help. Save even more by moving in with their so-supportive family.

Their priorities are really screwed up. What’s more important than the defense?

I didn’t take all that into account. But still, without an effective defense (or even with one), his next stop a cell that’s all ready for him. He won’t even need his expensive rent-a-bracelet.

Actually, if I were in his place and really believed I had a defense, I’d spend my time in jail to cut expenses and to provide more for the defense fund. Otoh, if I expected to be convicted, I’d probably do what he’s doing – living as well as I can for the short time I have on the outside.

bettykath, that’s a good point, staying in jail to save money. He would not have had to pay any travel costs for the past year to travel back to visit lawyers. And his family would/should feel far more secure, it would effectively have eliminated the threats that clearly ended with the arrest.

There’s got to be more to what they have spent than just what O’Mara can account for, I suspect.

Fogen certainly never made that much per month in any of the jobs we know about, so I’m curious too about his high cost of living, especially when they list the GPS and security separately. Is he living in some extremely high-rent area?

Definitely. This couple (that’s as if they are still a couple) doesn’t need a anything other than a furnished studio (or at most a one-bedroom) given their apparent lack of possessions. Of course with Fogen, food alone could run things up.

Mamma Z or other fam members don’t seem interested in providing shelter … If they aren’t willing to put him up, they ought to just shut up.

This might imply that the state has no reason to rush on it’s 20-day response for the appeals court, they can wait until the last minute, O’Mara is pushed further down the countdown to trial when the 5thdca announces their decision.

Will the 5thdca hold a hearing, or is that reserved for post-trial appeals?

@ay2z, at first I thought it would be quick and this weekend I also began thinking:

This might imply that the state has no reason to rush on it’s 20-day response for the appeals court, they can wait until the last minute, O’Mara is pushed further down the countdown to trial when the 5thdca announces their decision.

There is a very determined Fogen camp who has been tweeting and posting the defense fund link all over since the weekend. Supposedly they managed to bring in 2k.

So the funds are dwindling compared to that first rush and the post-Hannity hullaballoo, but who knows, they just might pull through. That they don’t seem to have a single major donor is telling, I think.

Prof, do you suppose the defense team doesn’t declare indigency because they might have to reveal more of their strategy following that declaration – in the sense that they now play games with odd motions that simultaneously bring in money but conceal the state of Fogen’s defense, which isn’t looking very good?

$13K, but the tax is on the givers end. Unfortunately because it’s a gift no tax will be due, unless someone (hopefully) can prove the donations are not a gift and are indeed being utilized as a source of income.

The money received is not “gifts”. The money was raised via website solicitations asking for “donations” to cover legal and living expenses.
The IRS has strict regulations regarding gifts. No. fogens nearly 1/2 million is unearned income…think of it as online panhandling. Panhandling is unearned income, and is not exempt from taxation.

OMG, he looks so much like his brother, makes me wonder if he had his brother’s ID on him when he did this. I knew a fool who did that once. Got his brother in ALL kinds of trouble and interestingly enough, they have been estranged from each other ever since.

Did anyone else notice that Rzjr’s arrest report listed his race as white? So much for all his ranting because the media reported that his brother was white, and not Hispanic, as his dad claimed, or actually ‘Afro-Peruvian’, as Rzjr. claimed later.

That’s So Not Racist: Thanks for the double-the-fun link to the endless Z tangles with the law … 🙂

As an aside: Professor, that’s a classy move not to criticize Gladazz, as a mother, for defending her loser son (s). I suspect, however, that she’s not as naive or sheltered from reality as some would suggest. She knows. Just like we know.

I think she’s mainly intent on the still delusional notion of restoring her fancy retirement plans in a Lake Mary neighborhood that now would like very much to have her move far, far away.

I just posted a comment to that effect. The reason that the media initially reported GZ as white was because that’s the way his race was listed on the SPD form on the night of the shootiing, and again on the form when he was finally arrested and charged with 2nd degree murder.

OMG… Thank you @Trigmundfreud for finding this and thats_so_not_racist for bringing it over. I knew someone could find it. I only hope they find more.

Does he know that we have all seen his mug and report? Wonder what he has to say about his race being white? Gonna have to trek on over to twitter I guess and see if anybody has brought it to his attention yet. Lol

I’m sure I don’t know if he has found out about his mug shot photo being on some sites but, IMO he would have to be blind, dumb, crippled or crazy not to know his arrest mug shot is being passed around on the net.

BTW, he is actually all of the above! in the words of a Bob Marley song, PASS IT ON.

@ChrisNY, for all we know, there just might be a mug shot floating around out there of Pappy Zimm. also, something tells me that, he and Gladdy were not living together when Fogen committed his murder and, they may not be together even now.

Remember part of gz’s get-outa-jail-free card was alcohol classes and anger management

and remember i found out a long time ago that PapaZ was a raging drunk, woman abuser and gambled on the boats.
And I’d wager he had a few extra special ladies in his nights! if you know what i mean …LOLO..