I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.

I personally am shocked and astonished that your degree from VERMONT didn't allow an easy breakthrough to the NEW YORK legal market. New York has no reputation at all for being a hard market to get into, so this really is surprising. I don't know if I'm going to be able to get over the shock. I think I'm quitting this law school idea.

Edit: You also aren't just losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. You're also losing out to Columbia, NYU, and Fordham grads, along with every other feeder school for NYC law firms. Even if you just take the top 15% of each of those (which you don't have to, since Columbia, NYU, and Fordham grads place a lot more than 15% of the class in NYC), that's a lot of competition for you, my friend.

Last edited by srb on Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.

Law school can be a terrible choice if you make a terrible choice. If your numbers are such that even a Seton Hall wouldn't give you any money, perhaps that should have been the first indicator that perhaps the legal profession wasn't for you. Also, I think reasonable man would have told you to go to Vermont only if you wanted to practice there. Did/do you have any employment opportunities up there?

I am sure you have no reason to be jealous to the NYLS and Touro grads you speak of-- my guess is they're going through the same thing you are right now. Anyways, good luck, hope things work out for you.

Once a professor told me that if you think one of your degrees is a negative for a particular position, remove it from your resume. She even advised us have the M.A. and Ph.D. from different schools so this was possible. Apparently, if you're not advertising that education, you're not expecting to be paid at that level, so maybe it will help. Maybe not points for honesty, but there's nothing about "full disclosure" on a resume as long as everything on it is accurate.

My best advice for you is to propose to your girlfriend. Given your current employment, etc. bagging a doctor would be ideal. She could help you pay off your loans, and you could be a stay at home dad.

This is absolutely ridiculous. The OP failed to do his research prior to choosing a law school. He attended a regional school with the intention of gaining employment outside the school's reach upon graduation. Gee, no wonder it's been hard.

It's pretty stupid, IMO, that he would rather work at IHop than try once again to land a job in Vermont. Surely it would put a strain on his relationship, but at least he could gain some experience that might eventually make him more appealing to employers closer to where he wants to live. Anything has got to be better than slinging pancakes and french toast for a living.

blondie wrote:This is absolutely ridiculous. The OP failed to do his research prior to choosing a law school. He attended a regional school with the intention of gaining employment outside the school's reach upon graduation. Gee, no wonder it's been hard.

It's pretty stupid, IMO, that he would rather work at IHop than try once again to land a job in Vermont. Surely it would put a strain on his relationship, but at least he could gain some experience that might eventually make him more appealing to employers closer to where he wants to live. Anything has got to be better than slinging pancakes and french toast for a living.

blondie wrote:This is absolutely ridiculous. The OP failed to do his research prior to choosing a law school. He attended a regional school with the intention of gaining employment outside the school's reach upon graduation. Gee, no wonder it's been hard.

It's pretty stupid, IMO, that he would rather work at IHop than try once again to land a job in Vermont. Surely it would put a strain on his relationship, but at least he could gain some experience that might eventually make him more appealing to employers closer to where he wants to live. Anything has got to be better than slinging pancakes and french toast for a living.

ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.

ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.

Sounds like you had doors opened for you that you rejected because you wanted a path that you took no real steps towards. Fail.

ihateusnews wrote:Still I would've thought employers would be more interested in me than someone at the bottom of the class at Touro. Touro is lower tier 4. Vermont is upper tier 3.

Are the T3/T4 schools even ordered within the tiers?

Every so often there's a leak of T3/T4 lists that are in non-alphabetical order, and people assume that is the "real ranking" that US News "conceals". Of course, given the 100-point scoring system, at that point everything dissolves into mush, so there's a good reason why it's all resolved as a giant tie. (I think there's like a 10-way tie for 87 this year or something.)

ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.

listen to this man's wise advice

"Wise?" Did I miss something? Or did Big Bird declare that today is "opposite day?"

The guy had job opportunities in Vermont, he passed them up to work at IHop and deliver pizzas so he could be closer to his girlfriend. He can't have his pancakes and eat them too.