I totally agree.I learned to box at the localpal center as a teen.Also going to the localJudo club and doing randori gave me good ground knowledge that I later would use as anightclub doorman at one of the more violentnightclubs in Baltimore.Using sweeps,chokesetc. to control patrons.But when approachedgoing to my car,a stiff jab followed by rightusually did the trick.STAY OFF the ground at all costs when its for real!

It's interesting that most people here think Judo consists solely of newaza, and overlook the fact that a well executed throw onto a hard surface negates the need to worry about going to ground. Your attacker wont be getting up some time, time enough for you to make your exit. Even poorly executed throws can cause sufficient damage to an opponent to end the fight there and then. Judo clearly originates from ju jutsu. Ju jutsu was unquestionably a true battlefield martial art, used by Samurai in real life or death situations, not thought out from some idealised idea of what happens in a fight. In my opinion the art would not have survived if it was ineffective, it has no fancy techniques that look good in the ring but are useless out of it. A lot of other "martial arts" would have difficulty making the same claim.

Cato had an excellent point-what about the takedown or the throw. we practice on mats, but others who don't know how to fall on mats will hurt themselves on the street. We actually practice on cement, our rolling and falling so we know how to 'accept' the ground. My point also is you want the attacker on the ground, that doesn't mean you HAVE to follow. If you have a striking art, once their down on the ground from a throw or takedown, give them a 'shoe job' kicks stomps and knees. There are several Judo locks that work well standing up as well. A Grandmaster once told me anything you can do on the ground, you can do standing up and vice versa. A good elbow lock standing up-can lead to a break, or a throw if you wanted and you wouldn't have to follow them down unless you really wanted to.

Only once I was involved in a fight. It was when I was 16 (after 8 years practicing judo). I was in a crowded pub with some friends, against the wall. Suddenly the guy in front of me looked me and punched me, without any apparent reason. Inmediately two more helped him hitting me. I couldnīt move: the wall behind me and a lot of people at my sides. Fortunately one of them wasnīt agressive (the one who wasnīt durnk) and convenced them to leave me and went to another bar.

The first thing I thougth after that was that after a lot of years practicing judo I was only prepared for championships and not for this type of situations. I was a good judoka but there I just felt like a puching ball. Since then I am allways cautious; I donīt want any surprises.

It is also important that, in that place, any use of my judo knowledge was impossible; no space and various agressors at a time.

After that experience I donīt rely selfprotection only on my judo but also on my readiness and overall on my common sense.Yes, now I am a bit paranoid.

I think that Judo is very street effective only because I have actually had to use it. A friend of mine was getting jumped outside of a bar. Once I made it to him I acually tried to stop the fight before I was forced into defending myself. I was rushed from my right side and pushed head forward into another guy. The move I actually used was a simple double leg tackle. Obviously not the move of choice because I didn't want to end up on the ground, but because now I was being jumped but I was kind limited under the circumstances. I got up quickly and was attacked again but this time I didn't let him get his hands on me. As soon as he got close enough I grabbed him by his sweater and did a Harai Goshi but without the leg. More like a grab and slam. I don't remember seeing him after that so I'm assuming I got my point across. I get tunnel vision too so I only worried about threats. I had to encounter two other guys but I just hit them before they hit me. No judo there. So to make a long story short(too late), Yes it is street effective.

Brewer: stated that if someone were to put an armlock on him, he'd be missing a piece of meat from his calf muscle. That's an attitude of survival, but it's wrong.

It's wrong because of several reasons:

1. When a fighter hits an armlock on the street, he's not going to just hold it there long enough for that too happen in the first place. He's going to be ballistically breaking the arm in nearly the exact same instance that he is putting the lock on.

2. If it's a street fight....go ahead and bite! The person biting is going to be the one with the arm in two pieces. There is STILL going to be some fight left after the break. I will take my chances with a bite.

3. Biting is something that is not practicable (not able to be practiced) in the gym so there is no way of truly knowing how a person's reaction to such a thing will be...especially when adrenaline is flowing and the pain threshold has been increased due to that.

4. With all that being said, it's better to learn to technical counter to a hold like that, than to simply go for something "crude" such as a bite. There is no "art" behind the bite and it isn't going to work on an experienced grappler plain and simple.

Learn to counters folks. Biting a grappler (or eye gouging as well) is just inviting more punishment because after you're lying there unconscious (from a choke) or with a broken arm or leg, "grappler" is just going to be mad.

I have trained a bit of grappling and stand up fighting. I have also been bit in fights before. If someone gets a good bite on you,trust me you will forget everything you ever thought you knew.Biting is one of the most painfull thing that can ever happen to you. Yea I escaped and I have the scars to prove it. If you bite some one and lock on,it feels like that part of your body is on fire. And you cant bite the leg on a good armbar. I tried it in class ,and it didnt work. R.J. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Brewer:Hello,I know we all saw the Ultimate Fighting Championships.And the over all out come of most of the fights.Yes, the grapplers really did a good job.Just because the grapplers are the best at what they do doesn't mean that what they do is the best.I mean that if a grappler tried to put a arm lock on me the way they were doing it on tv,he would immediately be missing a piece of meat about bite size out of his calf muscle.And I believe that going to the ground in a street fight is the worst thing that one would want to do.Let's look at another thing.What if the grappler is facing two assailants,if he ties one up and goes to the ground the other one is going to be kicking him up side the head.Now don't get me wrong I Love all the Martial Arts and have trained and practiced in Judo myself.I just think that this is an interesting subject to discuss.Your Brother in the Arts [/QUOTE]

I'm far from an expert, but I didn't see any mention of the possible grip problem.

A judoka usually depends on getting a good grip on the opponents shirt or jacket in order to have control. In my one experience in a confrontation, I instinctively grabbed the guy's T shirt and it just ripped off as he backed up.