As are other things. Come on people. Some of it happened, and was resolved, sure, but that's not representative on what we "allow" and what is "okay".

Gear creep also isn't as bad as it's being made out to be given nothing is handed out that isn't craftable, and the scarcity issues are being discussed and are going to be approached/resolved soon, alongside that.

This did indeed happen before you were on staff. The stat boosts and ingots and fancy weapons, etc. are all spot on as well. Appreciate the hell outta you guys, but let's not go 1984 or Brave New World up in here. Crack open a history book (even better some logs). No hate Fulgrim, love you.

Can we please stop trying to "import" ingots of refined iron and steel? We might as well just delete the bog from the map. Seriously, what's the point of even having resources in the game map if we're just going to turn around have staff load it? There's no point to risk dying if it can just be sent down the river.

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Edit by Alcarin to remove IC info. Please see below post for official statement on this matter.

A really bad sword with a short blade lies here. look sword This sword hardly even a sword. It's kind of really just a piece of metal bent like a sword. Its blade is rather short. Kind of pathetic, really.

tehkory wrote:But this is all the more a concern, now that the Lodge and Ironwood Inn are being tested for vNPC purchasing!

Heaven forbid the vnpc are outfitted with the crappy armor people make to practice with so that you can buy the nice stuff which is the only kind a PC will pay for!!! The horror! Leave our vnpc starving and naked!

More seriously, this isn't as arbitrary or as 1. Costless or 2. Clan-rewarding as it may at first sound.

All of the Lodge (and potentially Inn) shops have two parts. The Buyer and the Seller. The Buyer pays out to ANYONE who sells raw resources (logs, pelts, ore, etc.) of the appropriate type. Small payments, but something so that people can operate without a clan if they want. It's also a way for people who are clanned to pick up a little extra. These raw items are paid for by the Lodge/Inn from the profits of the Seller, where finished goods are stocked. Remember that to create the final goods, the lodge has to pick up additional items not supplied to the buyers, not to mention keep the buyers and QM funded for these paydays. This is the job of the foremen, to move the goods, supplies and money. If they pocket it or neglect it, it will become quickly apparent to all (inability to craft, inability to sell raw goods, empty shops) and the foreman can be fired and replaced.

How's that for creepy NPC sales?

[Petition:***] Why is there a pretty pink pony with doe eyes and a party-balloon cutie mark in the group?

That still doesn't change the fact that it's mostly free money (sans the cost of the crap to craft whatever it is they're selling-- unless it's raw materials (logs, ore, etc) which can be gathered for free) being provided to these shops. Having a shop that makes sales solely through PCs means the shop has to provide crap that PCs want. Making it so that vNPCs buy stuff means you can stock your shop with any old crap that has a coded value and you get a profit, regardless.

Have a bunch of old worn-out weapons nobody wants? Slap it in the store room and have vNPCs buy it!Have loads of tatterred, nearly-broken armor? VNPC!Have 500 bundles of firewood?

Etc.

This, on top of the already free paydays (which has been harped on and on about in other threads) means a whole lot more free money is about to hit circulation.

I wouldn't give a crap or otherwise be posting if there weren't good quality iron (and steel?) ingots that could be bought with said free money.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't give a crap either if orcs could get the same set-up, vis a vis honed iron ingots/steel ingots for sale in their single shop.

Otherwise, we're gonna have to kick PvP into high gear so we can loot all this great stuff off of humans just to keep up with the gear creep.

Last edited by krelm on Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

A really bad sword with a short blade lies here. look sword This sword hardly even a sword. It's kind of really just a piece of metal bent like a sword. Its blade is rather short. Kind of pathetic, really.

krelm wrote:I wouldn't give a crap or otherwise be posting if there weren't good quality iron (and steel?) ingots that could be bought with said free money.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't give a crap either if orcs could get the same set-up, vis a vis honed iron ingots/steel ingots for sale in their single shop.

Otherwise, we're just gonna have to kick PvP into high gear just so we can loot all this great stuff off of humans to keep up with the gear creep.

It'd be interesting to see orcs given a craft timer for super labor intensive mining that takes more time and gives less ore, but it's otherwise 'free.' Balancing it hopefully against the human ability to buy ore up.

Krelm it's right on the money for why this is a concern. None of what Taur said has anything to do with creep, even though each point is valid for why we should have vNPC sales.

Being able to receive free top quality metal and what not without ever leaving the gates discourages PVP. Why would anyone in their right mind risk going to a bog or getting ganked by orcs/tarks for..well, any reason? Having this as an option rewards you for hiding inside. I'm trying not to go into any IC details, just, the way I've seen it said IG, it sounds -exactly- like groups are being rewarded with high quality ingots because they aren't going outside to get resources.

It's very easy I'm wrong, but this thread mostly started because some clans are being able to have staff loaded, top end ingots forged by crafters and paid for with freely given coin, and RPT rewards seemed a bit high. I don't see how more ingots being put IG would help anything, even if they are made available to everyone.

As for vNPC sales..time to triple all prices and get the shinies flowing in.

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someguy wrote:Most of the work seems like it's designed to turn gear creep into a gear sprint.

This is one of the difficulties that comes up when you release the fun, populist designs before or without the unfun, policing parts. There really wasn't a need for new armor, for example. And I imagine we're going to see even tougher mobs, and then need better armor and weapons. Vicious cycle.

Atonement somewhat worked, usually, without atrocious gear creep. When you start adding two forms of income, as well as Atonement's foraging system, and THEN add SoI's craft timer system...you've got three systems for easily managing growth of wealth in both materials and cash. There absolutely has to be greatly increased economic drain to match these three(four? five?) overlapping systems.

ETA: Foraging. 'Free' production of material. Limited by time/space, may reduce craft timer investment.Paydays. 'Free' influx of cash over time. Limited by time/rank.VNPC sales. 'Free' influx of cash over time. Limited by materials(never an issue in SoI that was, nor now)' and a ceiling for sales per week.PC Sales. Zero sum. Limited by cash in the economy and coinsinks to remove it. Limited by crafting limits and foraging limits.Crafting. Limited by materials and time. Difficult to rely on, as limits are reduced by stacking and by PC skill. The higher a PC's skill, the lower the actual timer is. Material is usually limitless, except for a few rare bottlenecks.

As far as vNPC sales and my opinions of it go, I was under the assumption that the code was just shoved back into place from old SoI, where you could make thousands of moneys just by owning a shop and putting crap in it-- I know this from experience. (Anyone remember the Splintered Skull in Minas Morgul? I was probably the richest little goblin shit IG until we went to TE.)

I've been assured that it's not the case, though I suppose time will tell. As far as honed iron and steel ingots being thrown wantonly around goes, I've been told that isn't the case, either. I don't exactly have access to everything the humans do on a daily basis, so most of the information I get is second or third hand information blown out of proportion by my own paranoia.

Regardless! As long as I don't suddenly see a human clan in finely-made honed iron ringmail armor (or what the hell ever), then I'm fine.

TLDR: As long as both spheres can get what the other sphere has with the same amount of work, then there isn't really a problem.

Just as a note: Yes, the vnpc shopping mechanic of oSoI is not what we are testing, currently.

We're testing a brand new system made just for this game, that will ideally be much easier to balance and keep in check.

Additionally, no, it does not rain gold, steel, iron, and magic in Utterby. Things have gotten a little far advanced in SOME respects, which just means that we're already discussing how to rein them in again.

So, chillax dudebros. Have a bit of faith in the heartless monsters who guide the course and balance of the game you despise.