> The fascinating thing is that the system is historically modeled on the
> factory model and while the resulting school practice is anything but
> constructivist the original 19th century factorys the model is based on
> were, in practical terms, quite effective constructivist environments in
> terms of educating factory workers. Out of the factories came labor
> activists and labor movements that changed the country and they learned
> their politics and economics on the factory floor and after work.
> Inquiry-based setting? Not intentionally.

I think
the education of the 19th century factory worker was ultimately aimed at
"keeping them in their place."
I'm not sure the correlation ?
The rebellion came from being kept in a place.

Are you saying that if we go with a "place" in art ed, eventually the
producer will rebel and we will be sent to places we didn't imagine?

certainly if we stick with the DBAE model that will happen.

I'll say this again
I can do all I can do to open the paths to creative---- contructivist
thinking in my art room
but if the other disciplines don't follow
I battle a battle

I am loosing kids in my high school art electives because I ask them to
think too much

the model for kids today is do as little as you can to get by play the
system manipulate

in order to become an activist one needs some historical background and
pain
all I see is systems today avoiding any kind of pain or consequence
we reward just for showing up

You guys can debate all you want
but if you don't see what is really happening with the system today
well
would be an interesting idea if teachers would strike for method and content
instead of salary
and maybe were are the factory worker that need the inquiry based setting

> Maybe we should stop thinking of the students as "the product" and give
> them the respect a laborer deserves.

And maybe we would learn that fulfilling state and teacher made expectations
is just not where they are at.
The kids that "succeed" are doing just that.
Those that flounder need another kind of attention.

Tough job ain't it?

And I will say once again
You can put out all the theories you want
but if the teacher has little understanding of the intent
then it's just fancy paperwork.