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Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Originally Posted by CumPizdrul

I suggest about Romans :

1) to evidence (event) the difference between Senatus et Principatus atque Dominatus, in 3 different ages and consequent civil wars and even the " title " change from " faction leader " to " princeps " to " imperator". It would be interesting to focus on the " religious" qualifications ...pontifex...divus....augustus....associated to the character (e.g. the heir in the Principatus should have the " principis iuventutis" )

You can't change titles in-game. They're all set once and for the whole duration in the expanded.txt.

Originally Posted by CumPizdrul

2) to restore the Senatus missions until the changeling of the State form and to introduce the concept of "foederatus" to promote this old fashioned habit which was very recurring.

We're not going to do that. They're a gamey and ahistorical feature.

Originally Posted by CumPizdrul

3) to introduce the possibility to be elected ( quaestor, praetor...) even if the candidate is far away from Rome. Provided that he is winning battles against enemies or he accomplished a mission.

We're not doing that either, it's done that way on purpose. Get your FMs back to Rome, or don't receive imperium. They already have a very generous pro-magisterial period after an election to operate with.

Originally Posted by CumPizdrul

4) to introduce simple Roman Archers at the beginning ; then Roman Archers Auxilia and Roman Lancers Auxilia even in Rome and in some Provinciae. To reform Romans' equites, they remain the same even after marian reform, and even the Roman General Bodyguard, it remain the same.

No, I'm afraid not. The javelin was the missile weapon of the Italian peninsular. The only new allied missile unit will be an Italic javelineer. You need to look to other cultures for missiles.

Marian Equites weren't any different from the Polybian ones, that's why they don't change.

Originally Posted by CumPizdrul

5) for whole game : to introduce the possibility to train soldiers even if my army is far away from the region in which they usually got trained. I mean, if I am playing with Romans, and I am doing a campaign Vs Armenians, how I could finish it ? In 3-4 battles I will loose 40%-50% of my soldiers, so I should get back to Italy to re-train them and then move again in Armenia or...I should fill my army with mercenaries. It is very uncomfortable, I think.

Again, not going to happen. Roman recruitment is the way it is by design. If you want Romans out in the provinces, you need to keep shipping out reinforcements to merge with your armies to make up losses.

In the Marian era, you can recruit local equivalents/supports through the Provinciae government. Half your force should be allied anyway.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

You can't change titles in-game. They're all set once and for the whole duration in the expanded.txt.

We're not going to do that. They're a gamey and ahistorical feature.

We're not doing that either, it's done that way on purpose. Get your FMs back to Rome, or don't receive imperium. They already have a very generous pro-magisterial period after an election to operate with.

No, I'm afraid not. The javelin was the missile weapon of the Italian peninsular. The only new allied missile unit will be an Italic javelineer. You need to look to other cultures for missiles.

Marian Equites weren't any different from the Polybian ones, that's why they don't change.

Again, not going to happen. Roman recruitment is the way it is by design. If you want Romans out in the provinces, you need to keep shipping out reinforcements to merge with your armies to make up losses.

In the Marian era, you can recruit local equivalents/supports through the Provinciae government. Half your force should be allied anyway.

Thank you . But actually, I am quite sure that Romans got archers ( Sagittarii ) both pofessional and mercenary ones. In fact they had, in the early Res Publica period, Kretan Archers as auxilia and since 80 BC (more less) professional archers troops (obviously from Sirya or Thracia). You can easily see them carved in the " Trajanus Column", in Rome, too.

About the rest, I am not able with scripts and codes, so I don't understand the difficulty to change features and/or parts of the config.
However, to rule a whole region, if each single governor must get back to Rome often, in order to receive the imperium or the authority to rule / make war could bring many problems when the empire is big, just to say.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Yes, and that was a very real problem the Romans struggled with. Elections were in Rome, regardless of how distant the province.

You can recruit Kretans and other archers in the Provinciae government after the Marian reform. You can also recruit them from the Civitas Libera government and Allied Governments for that matter.

Of course it was a problem. But in this game, at a certain point, you will have Rome full of people. I mean, the office maybe lasts a little few. Anyway I think it is not a big deal.

About archers, I was meaning that of course soldiers were from Syria or other countries, but they were permanent units in the roman army, they were not mercenaries ; in fact they were wearing the roman's armour in the late period while almost anything in the early one.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Of course it was a problem. But in this game, at a certain point, you will have Rome full of people. I mean, the office maybe lasts a little few. Anyway I think it is not a big deal.

About archers, I was meaning that of course soldiers were from Syria or other countries, but they were permanent units in the roman army, they were not mercenaries ; in fact they were wearing the roman's armour in the late period while almost anything in the early one.

And you can recruit them with a Provinciae in Syria after the Marian reform.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Here's something that I've been thinking about. That is if it would be possible for the Koine faction to re-establish Sparta's old system with the oppression of the helots and so starting to boost the possible creation or Spartiate hoplites? I don't recall Sparta ever giving up on that idea while they had independence and so I would think that if they were more successful, they would have brought it back to life.

Either through a reform or through being allowed to build some "building" in Sparta itself.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Originally Posted by Gurkhal2

Here's something that I've been thinking about. That is if it would be possible for the Koine faction to re-establish Sparta's old system with the oppression of the helots and so starting to boost the possible creation or Spartiate hoplites? I don't recall Sparta ever giving up on that idea while they had independence and so I would think that if they were more successful, they would have brought it back to life.

Either through a reform or through being allowed to build some "building" in Sparta itself.

Hello Gurkhal2, welcome to the .Org and to EB .

If I recall correctly, in 272 BC Sparta still controlled its own helot population in Laconia, so no reform would be required. It was just the Messanian helots that had been liberated. No doubt the Spartans would have liked to reenslave Messenia, but I am not sure it would have mattered hugely. Spartan hoplites were always few in number.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Originally Posted by Gurkhal2

Here's something that I've been thinking about. That is if it would be possible for the Koine faction to re-establish Sparta's old system with the oppression of the helots and so starting to boost the possible creation or Spartiate hoplites? I don't recall Sparta ever giving up on that idea while they had independence and so I would think that if they were more successful, they would have brought it back to life.

Either through a reform or through being allowed to build some "building" in Sparta itself.

Not directly related, but KH does have an Agiad reform for Sparta, caused by changing land ownership. Ie building a big enough farm.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Some feedback on 2.2r:
Posted this on TWC before, but...

1) Why do the Suebi faction name and various titles have Umlauts in them? What are they based on - is it an official transcription?
Do they indicate pronunciation - so the second syllable in "Swëböz" is supposed to be pronounced like in "Öztürk"?
If however they are supposed to be stress or length markers, may I just point out that they are a very unfortunate choice (especially on isolated, single vowels), and accents etc. would be much more appropriate for that.

2) Are there plans to replace the remaining RTW Vanilla 2d graphics with custom-made ones or paintings/photographs? If the latter, I could help out with a few.

Originally Posted by 血荐轩辕

then why did AI so mild?We want the AI in the EBI !Oh that AI is gorgeous.I have never find a better AI that EBI.When I push into mesopotamia.The ptolemais will ally with seleucid to push me back.I can play it all day long.I play EBII for an hour that I find it boring and dull

Dude, the AI in EBI was by far the worst and most tedious part of the mod, and was what made me completely give up on it (after playing it far too much anyway). And I played every faction in campaign, except the Seleukids.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Originally Posted by athanaric

Some feedback on 2.2r:
Posted this on TWC before, but...

1) Why do the Suebi faction name and various titles have Umlauts in them? What are they based on - is it an official transcription?
Do they indicate pronunciation - so the second syllable in "Swëböz" is supposed to be pronounced like in "Öztürk"?
If however they are supposed to be stress or length markers, may I just point out that they are a very unfortunate choice (especially on isolated, single vowels), and accents etc. would be much more appropriate for that.

I've no idea, I'd have to ask our Germanic linguists.

Originally Posted by athanaric

2) Are there plans to replace the remaining RTW Vanilla 2d graphics with custom-made ones or paintings/photographs? If the latter, I could help out with a few.

No plans, but if you have ideas and the skills, by all means. If you're referring to ancillary portraits, we've changed loads of them in 2.3, though you can't see it in 2.2r.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

No plans, but if you have ideas and the skills, by all means. If you're referring to ancillary portraits, we've changed loads of them in 2.3, though you can't see it in 2.2r.

Regardless, more 2D artists are always welcome.

I'm mainly referring to building info pictures, both the symbols in the city UI and the detailed "unit card" of each building. Right now, they are a hodgepodge of pictures of different styles from different sources, with some being photographs (with or without filters), some being original EB art, some paintings, and some being directly taken from RTW and M2TW. In the interest of creating a more immersive atmosphere and giving the mod a more uniform look, I think that straightening these out would be a good idea. Ideally, all vanilla TW art would be replaced, especially the stuff from RTW which, while not necessarily bad for its time, looks bland and lifeless.

Personally, I like the photos best (a good example are the province info pics). That's where I could help out most easily, by providing you with royalty free ones for use in the mod specifically (and cropping or formatting (etc.) them if necessary).
Example (taken in Greece, no less. Might be suitable for a farming tier):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Not sure I have the skill or time to help with creating 2d art unfortunately, certainly not paintings or CG models.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Originally Posted by athanaric

Please do, unless one of them gets here first.

I'm mainly referring to building info pictures, both the symbols in the city UI and the detailed "unit card" of each building. Right now, they are a hodgepodge of pictures of different styles from different sources, with some being photographs (with or without filters), some being original EB art, some paintings, and some being directly taken from RTW and M2TW. In the interest of creating a more immersive atmosphere and giving the mod a more uniform look, I think that straightening these out would be a good idea. Ideally, all vanilla TW art would be replaced, especially the stuff from RTW which, while not necessarily bad for its time, looks bland and lifeless.

Personally, I like the photos best (a good example are the province info pics). That's where I could help out most easily, by providing you with royalty free ones for use in the mod specifically (and cropping or formatting (etc.) them if necessary).
Example (taken in Greece, no less. Might be suitable for a farming tier):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Not sure I have the skill or time to help with creating 2d art unfortunately, certainly not paintings or CG models.

This is my area, so I'll just note that the preferred art-style is "painting". Provinces are a completely different animal since they are geographic in nature, and thus photos are the best way to represent them. But in all other cases (buildings and events) the intent is to use artwork. In some cases (ports and farms in particular) we do rely on vanilla RTW, but even there, there's a conscious effort to keep the styles similar across the whole range of building levels. So if you have an RTW graphic at L1, they'll be used all the way through to L5 (or whatever the terminating level. And they will be different by culture.

So I take exception to the "hodgepodge" accusation, because there isn't just a random distribution of pictures and art sprinkled everywhere. There is a theme, and we're slowly moving toward the ultimate goal, but within building types the sequences are consistent and yet still different for every culture.

Member thankful for this post:

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

^ Good idea.

Originally Posted by Kull

This is my area, so I'll just note that the preferred art-style is "painting". Provinces are a completely different animal since they are geographic in nature, and thus photos are the best way to represent them. But in all other cases (buildings and events) the intent is to use artwork. In some cases (ports and farms in particular) we do rely on vanilla RTW, but even there, there's a conscious effort to keep the styles similar across the whole range of building levels. So if you have an RTW graphic at L1, they'll be used all the way through to L5 (or whatever the terminating level. And they will be different by culture.

I see. Makes sense.

So I take exception to the "hodgepodge" accusation, because there isn't just a random distribution of pictures and art sprinkled everywhere. There is a theme, and we're slowly moving toward the ultimate goal, but within building types the sequences are consistent and yet still different for every culture.

It wasn't meant in a denigrating way. But surely, you can see what I mean - a consistent art style would be preferable (even though difficult to achieve considering how many different individuals of different professional and cultural backgrounds are working on this mod), in fact, IMHO, it should be one of the primary goals for any total conversion mod, such as this one.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Originally Posted by athanaric

It wasn't meant in a denigrating way. But surely, you can see what I mean - a consistent art style would be preferable (even though difficult to achieve considering how many different individuals of different professional and cultural backgrounds are working on this mod), in fact, IMHO, it should be one of the primary goals for any total conversion mod, such as this one.

And that was my point, it IS a primary goal. If you could compare the 2.0 vs 2.2 versions of EB2, you'd see we made MASSIVE steps in that direction, and it remains an ongoing activity. Take a look at the small icons and you'll see the same thing. A steady move toward a common style.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

I've got to see the Spartan land reform now and it was, ok I suppose. Although i still think that there should have been a quest for the Koine faction in regards to the helots, and if more quests could also be done I'd love that too. :) But then again I'm a sucker for quests and stuff in this mod.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Originally Posted by Gurkhal2

I've got to see the Spartan land reform now and it was, ok I suppose. Although i still think that there should have been a quest for the Koine faction in regards to the helots, and if more quests could also be done I'd love that too. :) But then again I'm a sucker for quests and stuff in this mod.

In 2.3 both Epeiros and Ptolemaioi have "missions" relating to installing their own favoured candidate in Sparte. Not to do with the helots, though, rather exiled kinglets.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

In 2.3 both Epeiros and Ptolemaioi have "missions" relating to installing their own favoured candidate in Sparte. Not to do with the helots, though, rather exiled kinglets.

Like I said I love quests/missions in general as it adds a lot to the immersion in my experience. Will definietly try out Epeiros and the Ptolemaioi in 2.3. I'm big Philhellene in addition to a lover ot quests/missions so that should be good. :)

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Hello all!

Some (probably crazy) suggestions.

Could be a good idea to implement another trait in the (selfish,unselfish/optimistic,pessimistic) group? I'm thinking about the newly added lazy/dutiful, maybe, which are relative to the personality rather than related to lifestile or character development... This will also restore the balance in numbers with the (sharp,dull/charismatic,uncharismatic/vigorous,languorous) group.

I don't know if this already comes into play, but is it possible to influence the acquisition of a certain trait depending on the region (and not only the settlement)? I am referring for example to something like the "Under the Weather": an increased chance in alpine regions during winter, and maybe in desert regions during summer could be interesting IMO!

Talking about loyalty, could be a "short reign penalty" possible? Looking at e.g. Seleucid history we can see how each basileus had to struggle against potential claimants to the throne; and in general the years after the death of a basileus were really chaotic! So I was thinking about a decrease in loyalty right after the death of a faction leader. Maybe only for some factions, though, and with some conditions related to the number of controlled territories.

I haven't played the Ptolemaioi (waiting for the 2.3) and I don't have a copy of the game at hand for the moment, so I can't check; but are there some unique bonuses related to the flooding of the Nile? Maybe a boost to agriculture higher than normal.

Probably something else is going to come to my mind in the next days, but for now this is it.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

I really hope that you can add more reble units from outside the map.you can make mauryan empire reble invade taxila.You can certainly.make reble for kushan empire and han empire and the xiongnu.They all enter the map in this time frame.If you dont want to waste faction on them.Its fine.you can let them be rebel army and mercenary.Please do make units for those empires.It will add more variety to the game and make it more historical.many units in the game looks acturally the same.The diffenrence may be their weaponsIt will get bored if the units that cant change like the old eb1

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Hello,

Have been a fan, and closely following the EB project since the earliest stages of EB I. Back in those day early 2000’s, It was Europa Barbarorum and te Rome Total Tealism project for all the money». Still playing RTR 6.0 now and then.

Anyhow, the very high early ambitions of the EB team has more than lived up to every expectation (of I assume) all developers and fans. Its been a fantastic journey this far, at least for me as a fan. Been checking the forum several times every week since the beginning.
Posts of technical assistance, tips, and not to mention all the new content created by the developers, contains an enormous amount of work from the people willing to labour for It.

This project is all about history. I think It would be very pleasurable to see If one could write a short history of the project Itself in a credits sene one the game is opened. Who has worked from when to when on the project, when positions in the administration of the project has changed etc.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Originally Posted by Christianus

Hello,

Have been a fan, and closely following the EB project since the earliest stages of EB I. Back in those day early 2000’s, It was Europa Barbarorum and te Rome Total Tealism project for all the money». Still playing RTR 6.0 now and then.

Anyhow, the very high early ambitions of the EB team has more than lived up to every expectation (of I assume) all developers and fans. Its been a fantastic journey this far, at least for me as a fan. Been checking the forum several times every week since the beginning.
Posts of technical assistance, tips, and not to mention all the new content created by the developers, contains an enormous amount of work from the people willing to labour for It.

This project is all about history. I think It would be very pleasurable to see If one could write a short history of the project Itself in a credits sene one the game is opened. Who has worked from when to when on the project, when positions in the administration of the project has changed etc.

That would take some doing, but I'll suggest it to the team. Someone might take up the challenge.

Originally Posted by 血荐轩辕

Will there be of the units of eastern asian.Will the units change as time went by like the old days EB1

There are limits to units from beyond the end of the map. There are more eastern steppe regional units to come.

Units do change over time, but a global "all units change on this date" mechanic like EB1 had makes no sense at all.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Having played quite abit as Pergamon and Makedon I have found the pikes to be quite underpowered. If given an ideal position in a chokepoint and with a thick unit they only tend to get around 30 kills for me when fighting generic spear-levy units. The main problem is their damage, they can usualy hold enemies back for quite some time but they get barely any kills in the process. I understand the idea is to use them with the hammer and anvil tactic but they are just so useless at killing stuff you might aswell have levy hoplites. I have seen skirmishing cavalry do full frontal charges into prepared pike phalanxes and not taken a single casualty.

Also sometimes when the AI targets something behind the pike unit they can just pull trough the entire pike phalanx and end up behind them. This is particulary annoying in siege defences where the enemy just runs trough my pike blocks while only taking 3-10 casualties.

Other than this I think the game seems balanced. I really enjoyed playing as Aruernoi. But as a pike fanboy I hope you will buff pikes in future versions. They dont need to be slaughter machines but if someone does a frontal charge (particulary cavalry) I think they should atleast take some casualties.

This is from my experience anyway, keep up the good work this mod is amazing!

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

I just finished a H:H Epeiros 150 turn campaign. I remember this project from 10 years ago, and I am very pleased to see that it is still so much alive. Truly incredible how much this project has grown over the years. To all those who have contributed: hats off for your dedication.

Here are a few of my points that I think could be improved.

* Enemy generals die too quickly. This was also a problem back in the days with R:TW. I think this could be solved by giving the AI general +3-5 hitpoints extra. This would counter his suicidal tendencies.
* Macedons had 1 town left (Pella). Still, each turn they could produce 1 unit. Eventually they had 2,5 full stacks. This is not realistic. I think it would be more appropriate to script that when a AI town is attacked, levies are mobilized (i.e. the AI can go in red with buying troops). But not under normal conditions. The way it is now, the Macedon AI army is growing to unrealistic sizes.
* The M2:TW recruitment engine is so much better than R:TW. But I had a feeling that too much troops were produced overall. There are way more troops than money can buy. If the troops were more scarce, the campaign would be a bit more realistic and maybe the AI would invest more in city upgrades. Levi mobilizations during attack would also make the cities more difficult to conquer. I would go for 2-3x longer replenishment times - at least.
* AI doesn't upgrade its towns. This could be scripted (?), disregarding the finances. I remember in the days of EB, the AI got +5k or +10k each turn. But the AI just wastes it on troops. If the script could make sure that in at least 30% of AI towns something was build (and if not, just start building - disregarding financial resources), this would make the AI more realistic and sufficient later in the game.
* Hastati have some strange cards (pikes?), while they are depicted with a gladius in the description.

Re: Fans suggestion thread for future releases

Originally Posted by Loka

Having played quite abit as Pergamon and Makedon I have found the pikes to be quite underpowered. If given an ideal position in a chokepoint and with a thick unit they only tend to get around 30 kills for me when fighting generic spear-levy units. The main problem is their damage, they can usualy hold enemies back for quite some time but they get barely any kills in the process. I understand the idea is to use them with the hammer and anvil tactic but they are just so useless at killing stuff you might aswell have levy hoplites. I have seen skirmishing cavalry do full frontal charges into prepared pike phalanxes and not taken a single casualty.

Also sometimes when the AI targets something behind the pike unit they can just pull trough the entire pike phalanx and end up behind them. This is particulary annoying in siege defences where the enemy just runs trough my pike blocks while only taking 3-10 casualties.

Other than this I think the game seems balanced. I really enjoyed playing as Aruernoi. But as a pike fanboy I hope you will buff pikes in future versions. They dont need to be slaughter machines but if someone does a frontal charge (particulary cavalry) I think they should atleast take some casualties.

This is from my experience anyway, keep up the good work this mod is amazing!

Pikes are still a work in progress; there have been some recent changes in the development build, but they haven't been comprehensively play-tested yet. It's difficult to get them to do what we want them to do, and avoid them being overpowered like in EB1.

Originally Posted by Davor

I just finished a H:H Epeiros 150 turn campaign. I remember this project from 10 years ago, and I am very pleased to see that it is still so much alive. Truly incredible how much this project has grown over the years. To all those who have contributed: hats off for your dedication.

Here are a few of my points that I think could be improved.

* Enemy generals die too quickly. This was also a problem back in the days with R:TW. I think this could be solved by giving the AI general +3-5 hitpoints extra. This would counter his suicidal tendencies.

AI generals do get more hit points at the higher levels of the AIGeneral trait.

Originally Posted by Davor

* Macedons had 1 town left (Pella). Still, each turn they could produce 1 unit. Eventually they had 2,5 full stacks. This is not realistic. I think it would be more appropriate to script that when a AI town is attacked, levies are mobilized (i.e. the AI can go in red with buying troops). But not under normal conditions. The way it is now, the Macedon AI army is growing to unrealistic sizes.

There's already just such a script for factional capitals (only, plus a handful of "Rebel capitals"). We are categorically not going to extend this to every settlement, that just makes sieges a tedious slog.

The AI can't go into the red, the finance script clears all debt - because if we don't they go bankrupt then passive. But the corollary of that script is that they also can't build up large surpluses, anything over 30k gets clawed back.

Originally Posted by Davor

* The M2:TW recruitment engine is so much better than R:TW. But I had a feeling that too much troops were produced overall. There are way more troops than money can buy. If the troops were more scarce, the campaign would be a bit more realistic and maybe the AI would invest more in city upgrades. Levi mobilizations during attack would also make the cities more difficult to conquer. I would go for 2-3x longer replenishment times - at least.

The only thing the AI wants to do is recruit units (and build things that allow them to recruit units). That's a hardcoded behaviour that overrides everything else that influences the AI. In earlier versions, the disparity between number of settlements and number of stacks was much worse.

As above, we already have a selective and limited application garrison script, it won't be extended beyond that. The balance is skewed in the direction we'd prefer the gameplay to go - that you win a province by a field battle, not by a hard siege. We don't want to make settlements any more difficult to conquer, the difficulty should be coming from winning a battle in the province first (from those 2.5 stacks, for example).

Making units more scarce won't make the AI build things instead.

Originally Posted by Davor

* AI doesn't upgrade its towns. This could be scripted (?), disregarding the finances. I remember in the days of EB, the AI got +5k or +10k each turn. But the AI just wastes it on troops. If the script could make sure that in at least 30% of AI towns something was build (and if not, just start building - disregarding financial resources), this would make the AI more realistic and sufficient later in the game.

As above, the AI likes to recruit above all things. Giving them lots of money wouldn't result in construction, just more recruitment. That's why the finance script only gives a lump sum in spring, when recruitment slots for most governments are low (winter has lots of slots - it was the traditional recruiting time).

We've given the AI huge construction discounts through the AIGovernor trait, which it does use. Again their primary interest is in troop-producing buildings, but they do build infrastructure as well.

Otherwise, the level of specificity you're talking about is impossible. You can't measure "a proportion of their towns" without a huge script that checks every settlement, every turn, to see who owns it. You can't script construction behaviour.

On a more general point, EB1 is neither suggestive nor indicative of what we're trying to achieve with EBII, least of all in the AI space.