OMG it actually has an "Objective" (basically "Kill the Black Knight in defense")!!!

This is the one sole thing most games were missing for me.
I hope it's halfway decently integrated (sadly no physical castle in the game altough you have to destroy it) then this would be absolute killer!

Sorry but the attacks against Dialed In are unwarranted. People walk up to Dialed In and play it because it's a loaded game with a ton of unique features, a great layout and most of all looks like fun. That's what happens when a playfield looks like this and there's HQ animations on screen.
There is NO CONNECTION with BK3 as of yet, the public hasn't even played it yet. If its loud on location no one will be able to hear it either. Time will tell how it does and I hope it does great and will have that connection you are talking about.
[quoted image]

I don't know the legalese and don't really care to but the trailer lists Williams Electronic Games and PPS so my guess is both are involved in it. Probably WEG through PPS, but again it doesn't really matter since it's clear they got it done. I wonder if they licensed it because of the music they wanted to use from BK2K, even if re-done it would still be owned by WEG/PPS I would guess. Like I said though, they got it done and that's all that really matters.

They have licensed it (maybe for free, like it was said), including the music.

BK2000 music was composed by Steve Ritchie himself, so there propably wasn't any issues here.

Now that's a fuckin' teaser baby!!!!
Extra kudos for waitin till today just to piss off everybody who had a TPF ticket.

I thought about this and I think, while not be the thing we want them to do, it is the respectful thing to do for all vendors that bring lots of existing machines for play and sale. Like the shitload of Munsters Premiums Marco brought.

Since Stern relies heavily on them promoting their machines for them it's not the best thing to lock away mones/ sales by presenting a new machine right at the beginning of a show.

So while Stern still is revealing games at tech- or amusement shows (where there is no pinball retailer), they'd propably never ever again reveal a major game at a pinball show.

I was not offended by you or your post, and nowhere did I say I was? You are the one who was offended. Your post confuses me very much. You tried to use your "I'm offended" to silence others based upon your religion.

Man only thing left now is room! Where to put it! I asked this question before but never got a straight answer, is it better to line up pins side by side straight to save room or at an angle..or does it not matter?

I love the look of the game but anyone who is an artist or is in the field can tell you his stuff is just not that good. Kiss was worse. I get that it's stylized but there are many things in the art that is just wrong.

Yes and no.

I'm in the art department and I see a lot of little shortcomings (it's in wide areas not as meticulously crafted as with Franchi or Zombie Yeti)...
BUT Kevin O'Connor does a better job in terms of overall composition on the playfield.

And while that means he's not cluttering images all over the playfield (wich may look bare to you nowadays), that means he can go for a cohesive style and Color Palette and he's not repeating the same assets over and over again in one game.
Like for example in Beatles Gold the floating Heads on the side of the backbox, the artblades and the playfield (5 times alltogether).

At the Moment I'd tend to a Kevin O'Connor Playfield with ZY or Franchi Art on the Cab.

Edit:
That said I love everyones work, but as I said waaay earlier in this thread I'm happy for Kevin O'Conner that he get's moved out of the "photoshop clipart" corner he had to do for so long. He's a classic designer and very adaptive if you think that he makes kinda classical paintings and airbrush as well as Comic book art (TMNT Playfield).

Yeah I know when I walk up to a pinball machine, the first thing I do is stare at the art for at least 20 minutes making sure everything is perfect and anatomically correct before I put my money into the machine.

Calling any friend of Jack Danger:
Would you please ask him when he's streaming BK3?
And would you then post his reply here?
That would be much appreciated. I just tried to ask him myself during his stream but I was ignored.
Thanks!

How many seconds did you try?

He said multiple times very, very soon and he might spill the beans later after a few drinks.

I love most of Steve Ritchies games because you have to "FIGHT THE MACHINE".
Or like the Promotion for F-14 said, when introducing the backkicker: "It fight's back!"

On Star Trek you DON'T have the Enterprise on the Playfield (Pro) but the Vengeance.
And at the first glance everyone knows that you have to shoot it and it's wild fun, shaking, locking balls, backkicking...

On GoT you fight the Dragon and smash the door,...
the Iron Throne was an afterthought on the Pro due to popular demand (aka. shitstorm).

And while it would be obvious for other Designers to have the Enterprise on the playfield, in my opinion it makes way more sense like SR does it.
John Borg does the opposite. In GotG you shoot Groot & Aggro Raccoon. In Musters you shoot Herman Munster...
Why is that other then to Show something from the license? It makes no sense and tells no Story.

That said: I don't need a great story but "defeat all other houses and become the head honcho" or "defeat the black knight" is an actual goal and not just the usual "finish all modes for wizard mode" letdown.

In this regard I'm very much looking forward to the new black knight. We don't know yet how fun interaction will be, but if it feels halfway decent (I'm not yet 100% sold on it comapring to the Vengeace for example) this game will be a winner!

The way Tim Sexton describes the game from batteling the black Knights minions, over swamp lands etc. before getting in the castle sounds awesome.

I'm sceptical nontheless because they talked about the awesome script an writers they had for Deadpool, wich lent to believe there was some kind of story (wich there wasn't) and cool callouts (wich were... at least "toned down" a bit).
(Edit: I still don't know how they could mess this up and not manage to tie the modes together in any way.)

I hope they get this right. Like I said a bit above, battling for an (easy to understand) goal for me is one of the most motivating aspects of a game and if the modes add to the center toy that'd be awesome!

That's true! And it never backfires with Stern.
I remember people will still calling themselves "Magic Girl Owners" till the bitter end when they finally accepted they owned nothing besides a several thousand dollar loss.

It only backfires with oneself beeing the laugingstock.
(Myself included, when I bought Star Wars Pro NIB sight unseen and sold it 2 weeks later.)

Some fully motorized pins are not all that and a bag of chips. I mean look at JM or JD or BW which have a ton of stuff on board while AFM hardly has more than BK3 pro except for more ramps.
I find MM with castle and trolls to be ok game in that the shots may take a backseat to the toys.
Your results may vary.

Yeah. Full of stuff doesn't equal to greatness either but I really miss the wow-moments of MMs castle, JMs Hand (still loving it and it seems I'm the only one this doesn't get old for) and so on...
And we'll never gonna get that again if the engineering cost hast to be financed with a copule of hundered LE's and unknown quantities of Premiums, while the Pro is the big seller.

While bickering a whole lot :
I've played the BK and BK2000 and I very much like the idea of the lexan upper playfield with the full playfield beneath, since the upper playfield in the old BKs are more of a 'lifted' playfield. - There was nothing beneath that upper playfield to shoot for and on top of that I've found the shots on BK2000 to be hard to see.

I think it is intentional marketing genius.
When companies produce three tiers of a thing, the middle tier is the one they hope to sell the most of.

I don't think that Stern sells more Premiums then Pros.
Since Pros are for Location and about 50% of their sales still move to Location and many people can't afford a Pro or see enough difference to the Premium the Pros propably sell waaay more then Premium & LE combined.
Not that it proves much but with WWE there is not even a Premium and the LE didn't sell out. (And the game is not THAT bad. It was the Hulkster shitstorm that was the final nail in the coffin.)

Hilarious.. I dropped around 8500 on a game sight unseen.. and Stern and Jack Danger thinks its funny to dangle it in my face.. my money is going elsewhere. I'm just one person so I'm sure they will laugh and not care.. that's fine, there are choices in pinball now.

Srsly? - They said before that first gameplay will be shown at midwest gaming or whatever the name is in two weeks and this little joke was pretty obvious.

So you really want to skip a possibly awesome game only because of a lil obvious april fools joke you fell for?!

April fools!.. I'm not passing up on Steve Ritchie.. Black Knight, and Metal! \m/.. Disappointed more of you didn't take the bait though.. If this game ships with incomplete code though.. you better know I'll be bitching about this goof off session prior to launch!

I fell for it,... because it's a total realistic thing for a pinsider to do.

Does anyone think the clear upper PF is going to be so scratched after a short while so you won't be able to see thru it? I had a WPT that had this issue and with the recent cheapening that Stern does I wouldn't doubt if the plastic isn't has durable as in the past. I ordered a pro but really like the look of the upper PF. I'd like to play one first and upgrade later if possible but that plastic playfield has me concerned.

I don't know what the WPT Playfield is made of in detail (plastic is not plastic) but the Lexan Ac/Dc Vault lower-playfield-window seems to do fine.

I love BK2K so this machine has really sparked my interest in possibly buying my 1st NIB title (even though I've considered others I just never followed through). I understand the upper play field is an iconic feature for the title but; is that and it's components the only difference in the Pro and Premium? The Feature Matrix seems to state that case but maybe I'm missing some other features. Do you think that additional cost of the Premium is too high if the only difference is the upper play field? Perhaps the game play is so much better that the additional cost is justified but either way from the teaser videos this looks like an amazing game.
Usually my budget is less than the cost of a Pro model but I'm hopeful I can somehow find the funds.
Honestly, the biggest disappointment to me is the lack of the mirrored backglass found on the LE model.

More likely the less successful games get used as dummy testers at the factory. Sopranos and RBION? Why vault games that go for 2/3 the price of a nib and that nobody has even been asking about. A guy locally has been trying to sell his Rbion for months.

Yeah I was way too quick...

But RBION is a great game, a vault could sell if you redo most of the art package....

Man... I try saving up on a new machine and all of 'em that I want to have are Steve Ritchie games.

So if you don't mind (since we're waiting for new info anyway) maybe endulge me and offer some input:

Star Trek (Pro) - One of the best games ever and I really love it. Great flow. 7 shots if you don't count the targets (and the 'gate' behind the upper right flipper). Vengeance toy is fun to shoot and has a lot of interactivity with drop target lock, magnet, backkicker and shaking ship. Problem with this I allready had one, had to sell it on a *uh* involuntary basis... but... well... rebuying it will give me a great game but I've seen it all allready. (First world problems.) No Star Trek Fan; watched the new movies because of the pinball and liked them (first one most, then second...).

Game of Thrones (Pro) - This one has only 6 shots (I count the ram as a target) and even worse playfield art than Star Trek. I have no connection to the license, so I don't give a sh** about the main theme playing in the beginning but it's a very fun game to shoot and I like the idea of choosing a house and defeating everyone else WAY more then just finishing just scenes from the movies in Star Trek. Toys are ok, definately need a shaker motor to give the flapping wings of the dragon and the ram some oomph! (Then it's great, if not definately looses to ST.)

Black Knight SoR (Pro... because money) - This one has only 5 shots. Only 3 of them uninterrupted (ST 5, GoT 4 if the Ball lock is open). In addition some shots got lost due to the lack of the upper playfield. I'm very sceptical if it has enough flow compared to... well, SRs usual. But I'm a bad player so a really big left lane like here is something I might hit. It definately looks best of all SR games... ever. I allready like the music better than in GoT. Toys seem cool (Shield as a Target and Backkicker mechanism in one and that flail) but of course motion of the Knight (wich was intended) would have been cooler than LED. - So you need the additional 500$ topper to get that. From the sound of it we'll get kind of a fully fledged story mode in this game, wich I would really dig.

So yeah, if BKSoR really delivers on a story mode, shoots good and the "webslinger" VUKs deliver the game back on the ramp in a quick manner this could be the game to go for for me, but shotwise (just by looking on the playfield pictures) and still wanting a "new" (to me) game I'd still go for GoT Pro... but I kinda can't stand the art.

Maybe I need EVEN MORE OPTIONS?! - GoT Pro Vault with new art, Stern?

What a great problem to have... well, when I saved the money that is.

But by then a GoT Pro Vault may even be out... I've allready bought the mods. XD

I do really love TNA but if I was on a desert island I would not pick TNA or for a very small collection.

TNA was the last (and for about 3 months the only) game I had, when I sold all my machines (wich were Star Trek, Johnny Mnemonic, Operation Thunder, F14 and TNA to help financing buying our home)...

...I as well love that game very much but I just can't play it a long amount of time (as long as other games), because it's demanding, and yes there is not too much variation. Absolutely no problem,... if you have a second or third machine, that is. Just like you said.

First game I bought back was Johnny Mnemonic (best bang for the buck, has a cool toy and plays fast like a Ritchie game), wich hopefully never leaves me again. But now I'm hoping to get something new & fresh in addition.

Yeah but those waits are welcomed in times of heavy multis in TWD, SW etc. so its all works out in the end. I like TNA but in a home collection unless u host lots of pin parties it would get stale mighty quick.

As I said I had it 3 months as my "only" game and that was fine. But it's... just too hard.
(And by the time you might get annoyed a bit by the scoop rejecting a lot of shots, because the ball is just too fast.)

I can't be allways on my toes. - Have that one put up next to a ST wich plays smooth as butter and all is fine!

To get back to Black Knight:
With so much backfiring stuff right in the middle of the game (Flail, Center Target, Backkicking Shield Target, usual Shield Target) this game will propably be pretty hard as well. Really looking forward to the gameplay reveal.

While the little snippets we got to see are great, I'm not too happy with the "usual" GUI.
Looks a bit like Maiden with the collected 'Stuff' listed on the left (that's ok) but the actual score again is pretty small on the bottom of the screen.

Not exactly a fan of this (but I'm in the minority, a DMD would still do it for me).
But I wish they'd make it a bit bigger and more obvious.
(That said, I will survive that. - But on Munsters I found it really hard to get wich players turn it is... )

Yes, it's technically possible because there are 6 balls in the machine.

No, it is not possible to add that 2x 3 Ball Multiball to get a 6 Ball Multiball.

Maybe there is an additionall 6 Ball Multiball for Wizard Mode, we don't know yet. But "regular" 6-Ball Multiball, wich comprises of the stacked 3 Ball Multiballs is not possible on the Pro, as said by timballs.

Forgive me if it's already been mentioned in this already long thread, but my little $0.02 observation/concern is regarding how much space in the pro is "wasted" with the upper playfield not being there. Maybe they'll address with the code, but it seems like there is a lot of space being used up for what simply amounts to the rollover lanes and the pop bumpers. It takes up roughly a quarter to a third of the playfield space (circled in blue)! Look how much is covered by just plastics in that area (circled in green). With our without the upper playfield this sends like a waste of space. If this was an older EM or SS I wouldn't care as much, but with modern designs, much more is capable of being put into the layouts. Look at Iron Maiden for comparison.
[quoted image]

On the left is a ramp, so I don't see what's the problem there.
On the right is a big plastic, yes. I suppose there would sit some of the mech for the upper right Flipper or something in the Premium/ LE Version.

But, well, SR starts designing with the LE/ Premium and for the Pro stuff usually only get's taken out.

I don't really see a Problem but I understand where you come from.
But if bugs you, maybe you should get the Premium/ LE Version.

Maybe because the last 4 or 5 pins I've had were been pretty loaded with stuff and code and long playtimes I'm loving the fact that this is a one ramp. open concept heavy metal fest of darkness. I needed this and couldn't have asked for a better theme, well Slayer but still and perhaps some kindly fella out there will do a custom sound rom, all Slayer or better yet all Death Metal.

Ultimate Mannowar-Mod:
Set the machine on fire while playing!!!
Sadly only works one time.

Multimorphic has competitive online play in Heads Up and #cosmic-cart-racing . George Gomez has also said that online features are coming soon to Stern titles. I'm sure some co-op play will show up, too, once the infrastructure is in place.

I don't think he said "soon". In a recent interview around TPF with someone from Stern that was even more vague... couple of years vague.

I'm (just by looking at the specs) a bit bummed that the Black Knight toy doesn't shake (like the Vengeance f.e.).
(So ist misses some direct interactivity if you just hit the target beneath it.)
The toys has a lot of other cool features tough.

So my question is...
...does the Black Knight toy seem lacking or is it awesome as it is?

It’s an ACTUAL interactive “toy” in that the ball strikes the shield and flail, and you’d prefer it just rattle around like the Vengeance ship?
I think it has to be one or the other. Having it rattle around probably wouldn’t add much, and likely would be a disaster for reliability.

The Vengeance don't just rattle...
It has a drop target, magnet and backkicker all in one shot so I'd call it massively interactive.
(And it feels great to shoot.)

I am still on the fence to buy a premium, but STERN is way too quiet about this game. There is still no information about in what direction this game will go. Will we see more modes, more monsters in it or is what it has now, all we will get and they just do a few bugfixes and this is the game? Everything I saw so far from this game is good but I just don't think it has enough content. In my opinion games like Iron Maiden are perfect with the content they have. Shortgoal gameplay and long goals to keep it interesting. If I count the modes and MBs in other STERN games like Iron Maiden or SW and than look what BK has so far. I can't pull the trigger and buy it now. I know that some STERN games took along time until the code was in a good shape but most times they talked in interviews or through insiders about the features that would come. So normaly I was relative early sure about buying a game. Is it just my feeling or is the hype about this game already over before it realy started? With Iron Maiden, Keith was everywhere: tilforum, streams, podcasts, interviews.....talking about the features what we will see in future updates and I knew excactly what game I will get when I ordered it. What is the direction they are trying to go with this game, will it be shallow but addictive like in the 80' just with LCD and LEDs. Or will it also have modern rules and enough content like other games now have?

You're just too good of a pinballer.

Looking at gameplay I think I will never "beat" that game as it is now.

Agree. It JUST MAKES NO SENSE where it's at too! Adding a button on the side of the cabinet would have cost them pennies. I would love to know the the thoght process on this.. I'm sure a side button was discussed, and the final decision was "no". Maybe Steve Ritchie can comment on this if someone gets a chance to ask him?

I think the best option for this will be a long wire out the back and some quality 2 sided tape with a flat style button if thats possible. It would be a solid selling mod thats for sure. I actually enjoy the frantic move to hit that button on the bar. This pin is really something and thats not a honeymoon phase thing, talk about speed, jesus and the modes are so great. I'm looking forward to multiplayer action tonight, Maiden and SW's and TWD while fantastic lead to alot of waiting. The only issue I have at all is the BK's voice and the taunts themselves, they are a little too cheesy for my liking. I would have much preferred the voice of the guy in Maiden but this is a minor issue. The flow and lighting, sound is just amazing. Hell hand, thats all I have to say. My new favorite mode in pinball, well Horde, its close.

Actually put a connector inbetween and an footpedal trough the coindoor so you won't mess with anything.

And so it begins... My game won't ship for a couple of weeks and I already ordered a real knocker kit. This is definitely a game that needs a real loud knocker! Also, wondering if there will be any game specific Cliffy protectors or if it will just need the shooter lane protectors. I contacted Cliffy and at this point he has nothing in the works. Might be helpful if someone sends him pics of a shooter lane to know if existing protectors will work.

I may have just bought the first used BKSOR LE! #166 The first owner didn't even have it two weeks!!! Traded me for my GOTGLE plus a little cash. I'm still stunned... 70 plays on it. He didn't even give it a chance!
My lucky day! Christmas came early, and I won't have to pay tax on the Premium I had on order. Win-win!
Downloading the latest code right now...[quoted image]

Since (in my personal opinion) GotG is an absolute turd, that's one heck of a deal!

Finally played Black Knight SoR Pro on a location near me that got the machine 2 days before!

First thing that popped out was that the fire backpanel wasn't working. It just 'flashed' when it was supposed to simulate a burning effect. Bummer but that doesn't change the game.

The game itself I mostly loved. It shoots well, I was able to combinate shots even tough I'm a bad player and it's tons of fun getting taunted by the Black Knight the whole time, wich leads to the "one more game" effect. That said and without wanting to sound rude, you can definately notice the Kings age a bit, wich makes the Black Knight sounding a bit off from time to time. (I know it's really minor, it just stuck with me.)

The only thing that makes me not instantly buy this game is that the black knight itself doesn't move when you hit the target.
Yes he lights up and says "ouch" or something, but I just want some kind of physical feedback.
A shaker would maybe add to that, but if someone would build a mod for that (it doesn't even need software if you just fire up a coil when the target is hit) this thing would exceed the "Vengeance".

waiting on announcement BKSoR:WDE (White Damsel Edition) where the cabinet shows a damsel in partial white armor crawling. prem/LE really rocks. Now we need some sizzle.
STERN -&gt; I'd like to see way more light show action than is in the code. I am thinking in the range of 5x the currently action. I want to see the circle of lighting bolts going crazy throughout the gameplay and during some modes. Whether they are white and cycling, changed to faster and then faster and then pulsing and then solid lit or whether they use chasing color patterns or any combination of stuff. But BKSoR code needs is some pulsing, spinning lights that are integrated with gameplay. If not integrated, these will still look really good and should be at the top of your to do list.

Well... to be honest now that you mention it it'd be cool to rescue a sexy damsel...

...well, peoples assumptions that it may not be the game that sells/ earns like hotcakes may be true.

My location has the 5 latest Stern Pro games (wich ist great).
Iron Maiden and Deadpool are dirty as heck and Maidens flippers and coils lost a lot of their strength after 1 - 3 months.
But BKSoR as well as Munsters pretty much look and play like new. Guardians of the Galaxy, wich is the oldest of the five, also looks like it hasn't seen much play compared to Maiden & Deadpool.

That's kinda sad. For me BKSoR is a home run and I'd like to get a good deal on a used machine. But while Munsters Pro seem to pile up for sale I didn't see ANY BKSoR locally yet. - I hope it's because everyone loves the game but I'm afraid it might be also because it never sold that well to begin with. :-/

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