I test INTP and I have ADD. The stuff that helps me "manage" looks a lot like J-stuff: organizing and structuring the external world, try to make to do lists, plan stuff way ahead, working goal and task oriented, etc. So I guess you could say that by lacking these skills by nature, your behaviour could look like ADD. The other way around, being open minded is associated with ADD, and so is leaving stuff to the very last moment. People with ADD are (supposed to be) flexible, adaptive and spontaneous (impulsive). These traits match P-behaviour.

- I might even look like a J to the outside world because I need to overcompensate on being unorganized -

My question is this. Is it possible for a Judging type to have ADD? And if so, how would their disorder be translated into their behaviour. Would they lack internal structure in stead of external structure? In other words, the information overload wouldn't be external but internal. As example: if I were an INTJ with ADD, would the problem lie in not being able to filter information gathered with intoverted intuition in stead of extraverted intuition?

Or maybe they just suck at the judging stuff I mentioned earlier, while that's their preference of dealing with the outside world, making them one of the saddest creatures on earth because they're not good at the stuff they're supposed to be good at? Or something completely different because I'm not making any sense at all.

observing y'all from my UFO. inevitably coming down & joining y'all for mundane stuff... when out of fuel...

Join Date: Nov 2010

Posts: 986

Re: ADD and P'ness(is)

Yes ADD=Pness, especially IxNPness. J's with ADD don't exist!

if an xxxJ claims to have ADD, then either the xxxJ claim is not right or the ADD claim is not right.

Most people type themselves (and others) wrong.

J's are Ni/Si with Te/Fe in first 2 functions, these people are made for project completion, focus on one thing at a time, etc. J's prefer to work seriallly, they get their kick out of crossing rows in their todo list one by one. (P's dont give a damn about that).

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my theories on the subject are built up like this:

ADHD (the more tangible action-sensation version of ADD) = SPness (which is Se at first 2 functions). And then the more abstract version (e.g. ADD without the H) = NPness (which is Ne at first 2 functions).

of course Ne/Se comes with the Ti/Fi as a combo in the first 2 functions.

The IxxPs (Ti/Fi doms) are mainly avoiders of what is/feels wrong , they get less stuff done and this is visible to others, so they usually get diagnosed ADD.

The ExxPs have a stronger pursuent extravert function, which gets them to jump out and do stuff on impulse more than the IxxPs.

That would make ESxP the most likely to reach stereotypical ADHD (bart simpson style)

ADHDers actually get stuff done, although not as in project completion, just in bits and pieces here and there.

I guess ENTP could be diagnosed as a combination of ADD/ADHD in one person.
When laid back and pondering (a bit like INTP) the ENTP would finish nothing (ADD). When activated and happy and full of life , the ENTP will look wacky/bouncy/jumpy between people. But not as much as a real hardcore ESTP ADHD-er

ISxPs probably will not be called ADD/ADHD suffers because they are so tangible/concrete. and they are not so jumpy because Se is just a second function and under control of Ti/Fi. They wont really get stuff done, but they will just be considered lazy and slow , not dreamy/out-of-this-world as the INxPs would be viewed.

conclusion:

ESTP/SeTi and ESFP/SeFi = closest to ADHD bart simpson style, never dreamy. not so weird/wacky, just hyper

ENTP/NeTi and ENFP/NeFi = ADD dreamy when alone, ADHD-like when social in weird/wacky way. can actually break through the ADD periods of not getting stuff done on impulses. are weird and wacky

INTP/TiNe and INFP/FiNe = over-skeptical and ADD dreamy, so over-skeptical that nothing gets done. constantly avoiding what feels wrong (Fi) or is logically wrong (Ti). pursuant perception not strong enough to break out of the Ti/Fi model of containment

ISTP/TiSe and ISFP/FiSe are just considered lazy and slow.
(plus the ISFP would be considered not only lazy but also a stupid illogical fool, haha, just some ISFP humor here)

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also important to note that MBTI categories are broad, an example:
Not all ESTP/SeTi are the same. They just all have at least a bit more Se than Ti (which is the definition of their ESTP/SeTi category). Some however are extreme and have super strong Se, so strong that Ti is super weak (e.g. the stronger the Se, the weaker the Ti). These would be extreme extraverts in Se, these would be the ADHD cases of ESTP. So the more balanced version of Se/Ti in an ESTP would not be diagnosed ADHD, since its not so extreme.

I was reading about gifted and talented people the other day and some articles said that they often get misdiagnosed as ADD/ ADHD. Apparently they get overwhelmed both by external and internal overstimulation. I.e. too much thinking can make them agitated and unable to plan practical things. Do you have an 'official' diagnosis for ADD and did the ed psych or whoever make sure that you are *not* gifted and talented?

"In 1995 I took the Keirsey sorter and came out as INTJ when a coworker (an ENFP I believe) pointed it out to me. It didn't make much of an impact on me at the time (I was just starting to slide downhill from my "good years", senior year in high school to sophmore year in university). In 1999 when I realized I was struggling mightily with a number of psychological issues I thought INTP suited me much better and also as fit for my behavior for as long as I could remember.

But now with my head clearing up I think I can understand my affinity for the INTJ type over the INTP type. I have always WANTED to be organized and possess the self-determination and confidence attributed to INTJs and rather rued the "absent mindedness" of being INTP.

While I consider Myers-Briggs useful I think the underlying theory needs to have some cognitive neuroscience brought to bear upon it. Another thing, where do the other functions go? I've never felt that that has been adequately explained."

Quote:

Originally Posted by AureliaSeverina

I was reading about gifted and talented people the other day and some articles said that they often get misdiagnosed as ADD/ ADHD. Apparently they get overwhelmed both by external and internal overstimulation. I.e. too much thinking can make them agitated and unable to plan practical things. Do you have an 'official' diagnosis for ADD and did the ed psych or whoever make sure that you are *not* gifted and talented?

Yes, it's an official diagnosis and I'm not gifted or talented. Just massively choatic. I've also been on ritalin for a while but I've stopped because it suddenly made me very agitated and the rebound was no way near worth the gain in concentration. I want to deal with it through learning new skills and accepting I'm forgetful, not taking stuff that messess with your brain.

i dont want to be the jerk here or anything, but i really think more and more that you typed them wrong (if they have adhd/add).

the intj/intp is a common mis-type. also why entj/estj? it should be pretty simple to test between Si/Ni if you are into mbti.

Your theory over my credibility, eh?

Well, here's a list of behaviors I observed from the INTJ.

INTJ:
When heading towards a direction, pushes people away without any emotional input.
Grabs your hand and puts it in a desired location with instruction, again without any value-input.
In general, often treats people as objects to be used as a means to satisfy everyday goals.

Laughs in isolation
Unaffected by other people's laughter
In general, emotions are dictated by a largely internal criteria.

As for the ExTJ, well I consider the Pi function as largely internal(unexpressed) and being ExTJ, my brother, most often, expresses Te preferences. He likes to play with legos and he has some interesting ideas on what to make, but I don't find them "diverting" enough from the things I taught him to make. If I were to decide, I'd judge ENTJ based on the tertiary function, Se. Humor, for him, consists of mostly physical activity. But that could be because he's a child. He laughs at other people's accidents and he enjoys watching Tom and Jerry primarily because of the number of "accidents."

meh Skywalker.. You make too many hastened and bold conclusions, based on speculation, and that alone can not be enough to conclude anything.

I have at least never seen any study that strongly suggests that ADHD/ADHD-PI only shows in certain types. ADHD-PI and INTP often show some of the same characteristica but that is far from the same as saying that ADHD-Pi => INTP (or other P's which would fit into your model).
Point: It's fine to have theories, but they must be tested against reality in order to have any meaning.

__________________In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces.

a scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone

One of my closest friends most definitely types as an INFJ and is most definitely ADHD, (if you believe in ADHD, that is) as well as dyslexic. He's more much inattentive than hyperactive, but he fidgets. He's not impartial to planning, if anything he's always got some kind of life goal or something on his mind that he's working on, but he DOES get distracted very easily by his own Ni-Fe thoughts as well as piecing together his immediate surroundings. As you can imagine, he's grown up hating school and playing lots of video games.

ADD is well... attention deficit. Anyone can have an attention deficit, but I would grant that some types appear more prone to it than others. It would be nice if we could differentiate all the shades of attention deficit by personality type as they are often quite different.

Example: In my experience...
An ENFP that strikes me as attention deficit will tend to speak too fast and erratically for anyone to keep up, apparently stumbling over their own thoughts and failing to define useful boundaries between topics.
An ESTJ with attention deficit will simply end a conversation abruptly and start a new topic as soon as the current one gets uninteresting.
An INTJ with attention deficit generally won't be listening to the topic at hand in the first place and be thinking about something inexplicably irrelevant.
An ISTP with attention deficit will be bored all the time and give up very easily on tasks which aren't immediately exciting.
An ESFJ with attention deficit will express dramatic feelings about the first thing off the top of their head, quickly getting bored with the subject like ESTJs.
INTP with ADD... in my experience, a clusterfuck of ritualized, compulsive behaviors without any kind of specific intention competing to take over automatic control while my mind drifts to unrelated things. Eg. Check email, check facebook, get up to make tea, sit down, check email, check facebook, check INTPf, check google news, check email, etc.

Just to throw another thought on the pile, I have been playing with a theory that if you just imagine someone at the extreme of a particular preference, there is probably some tendency to pathology there. Extreme Perceivers probably do look pretty ADD, and extreme Judgers may well look obsessive-compulsive. Extreme extraverts may be close to antisocial personalities (not antisocial in apparent social behavior but in acting out) , while extreme introverts may have many anxiety/depression (neuotic)traits. Extreme thinkers may certainly have an Asperger's flavor, while extreme feelers--not as clear--some manipulative to the Machivellian point, others verging on some of the personality disorders--eg. narcissism. Sensing and Intuition at the extremes would seem to be more purely cognitive as disorders. Rule bound to the point of disfunction for sensors, open-minded to the point of being unable to take action for the intuitives.

Of course no one has their preferences in isolation, but still, if just one were very strong?????

ENTJs and INTJs need to organize and schedule as a form of controlling the external environment. That is what drives them. Not truth seeking or what am I here fore questions.

Imagine that very part of you is fucked. Where you are just disorganized by default. You'd pretty much fuck up whatever you love to do in the first place.

Maybe INFJs. They are the disorganized Js but Js are organized because they want to organize. They put people and tasks together with time schedules.

Having ADD as I can imagine is bad. Being a J type with ADD is like a bird with very crappy wings. It would've died. Thankfully being ADD as an INTP is like a bird with shitty legs. At least what they intend to do isn't compromised. Maybe landing might be a bit of a pain in the ass but its alright.

I don't see OP doing that. He could just be a very compensating P. I do that a little. But if it made a world of difference and I absolutely needed it to do what I wanted to do I'd organize.

Being organized is not J type. It is extroversion and introversion of your SN and TF.

^ADD =/= Not being organized. ADD= attention deficiency disorder. My brother organizes himself and organizes even other people. He tells people what to do such as where to place certain objects according to some rule. He just gets distracted and hyperactive at times.