Founding Member

Last week I got into a hassle here when I corrected a poster's use of the term "motor" when, in fact, he was talking about an engine. Think there is no difference? CAN YOU IMAGINE starting the Indy 500 or the Daytona 500 with the phrase: "Gentlemen, start your MOTORS"?

Founding Member

So I can tell the DMV to shove it when they want registration fees since my car does not have an electric MOTOR?

mo·tor ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mtr)
n.

1. Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts motion.
2. A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical power.
3. A motor vehicle, especially an automobile: “It was a night of lovers. All along the highway... motors were parked and dim figures were clasped in revery” (Sinclair Lewis).

adj.

1. Causing or producing motion: motor power.
2. Driven by or having a motor.
3. Of or for motors or motor vehicles: motor oil.
4. Of, relating to, or designating nerves that carry impulses from the nerve centers to the muscles.
5. Involving or relating to movements of the muscles: motor coordination; a motor reflex.

Founding Member

1. Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts motion.

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Ok I will play. From the quote above, the dictionary seems to define them both as one and the same. However a motorcycle refers to the entire bike, not just the engine. The cycle itself is the motor part, because it is imparting motion on you the passenger.

Same goes for Ford Motor Company. The cars we drive impart motion upon us. The vehicle itself is a motor.

However, Dave if you really want to get technical, and internal combustion engine is a motor as well, because it imparts motion upon the crank, pistons, rods, ect ect.

It's not as clear cut as it would seem. However; I have never heard a cars engine called a heat engine. In fact, I think that's totaly wrong for a cars engine. I think that it's over 50% of all the energy produced from the combustion in an engine is given out if a heat engine, which is LOST ENERGY!!! That heat energy is not being converted into mechcanial work; therefore, it's wasted energy. Now, a steam engine is a heat engine, becuase it turns heat into mechcanical work.

Founding Member

If there's any place that uses 'motor' for 'engine' it's in NASCAR. How many times have you ever heard a driver talk about the motor, as in "the motor blew." Granted, the younger guys say engine, but people like Jarrett, Marlin, Wallace, etc will interchange motor for engine at any time.

SuperDave said:

I hope everyone got a GOOD look at Michael Waltrip's crash. He is ONLY alive due to the new NASCAR safety rules. If only Dale Sr. had been so lucky!

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The ONLY reason is because of the new rules? Enlighten me what the new rule is that is the ONLY reason why he survived. Waltrip isn't the first to flip end over end at Daytona. Doubt he'd be the last. Whatever the new rules are, they weren't in effect when Stewart flipped in '01
or Newman last year
and who can forget Rusty Wallace at Talladega?
They all survived. I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just not a fan when people use absolutes without any explanation. If the ONLY reason why Waltrip survived was because of the new NASCAR rules, how did the other guys survive without those new rules?

Here's another variation for you Super Dave------- What about hydraulic motors? And for you GP001------ Your car does have an electric motor, or are you starting your ENGINE the old fashioned way, with a hand crank? And is your car also a heat-deleat car, without a heater or A/C and no fan motor to propel the air to operate those systems?

It's not as clear cut as it would seem. However; I have never heard a cars engine called a heat engine. In fact, I think that's totaly wrong for a cars engine. I think that it's over 50% of all the energy produced from the combustion in an engine is given out if a heat engine, which is LOST ENERGY!!! That heat energy is not being converted into mechcanial work; therefore, it's wasted energy. Now, a steam engine is a heat engine, becuase it turns heat into mechcanical work.

-Shaun

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You could argue the same about steam engines, after all, the steam that comes out is hot.

Heat manifests itself in ways other than temperature.

Heat definition

A form of energy associated with the motion of atoms or molecules and capable of being transmitted through solid and fluid media by conduction, through fluid media by convection, and through empty space by radiation.

The expansion of the gas inside each cylinder is caused by heat, this in turn provides motion of the piston.

You know how diesels heat up the air/fuel mixture to the point of combustion by compressing it right? Well, the temperature of a compressed gas goes down if decrease the pressure. (Its the opposite of a diesel compression stroke) (Gases obey a triad relationship between temperature, pressure, and volume. To remain a constant pressure, if the temp increases, the volume must also increase, etc.)

The extra energy unleashed from the burning mixture is heat, which makes the atoms (and molecules) run into each other faster, causing higher pressure (force of the higher-velocity particles smacking into other molecules, be they other fuel, or parts of piston or cylinder wall). The pressure forces the piston to move, and the pressure decreases. When the pressure decreases, the temperature decreases. Temperature is *A* form of heat, and this heat is extracted when the engine rotates. Stored energy in the fuel is another form of heat.

I should summarise: Heat is NOT temperature. Temperature is only a manifestation of heat. There are others.

Founding Member

Although I'm not well-versed in the NASCAR rulebook, I'd be more than willing to bet that any new rules were minimal in Waltrip's survival. Physics dictate that Waltrip's car was expending energy as it tumbled (in soft soil, no less), while Dale sr's car hit an immovable object, therefore had no chance to scrub off speed to reduce the amount of inertia he whacked the wall with. Dale also felt safety rules were for other people (as were the rest of the rules in the book) and continued to wear an open-face helmet, as was previously posted. Think about that the next time you feel that your lap-only belts are "good-enough".

Founding Member

OK, I'll confess! I started this whole squabble to get you guys to THINK! I'm SOOOOO tired of the six/V-8 swap debate that ITIP (I think I'll puke). How many times do we have to explain the realities to the all-knowing nubbie? What ever happened to the search function??

Regardless, NASCAR and the Busch series is always interesting. BTW, notice that it changed it's name from it's name from the "Winston Cup"? A great deal about motorsports, including ours, can be learned.

I've stood on both the Indy and Daytona tracks and, believe me, you can't possibly understand the races unless you have. At nearly 200 MPH and in heavy traffic, you better know what you are doing.