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Since i haven't seen this mentioned yet, Leafeon.Leafeon is one of my fav eevos. Decent stats, useful abilities in sun, worst attacking movepool, bad typing in todays meta. It has cappabilities to work, but hardly sweep. I mean he could have at least got Elemental Fangs for better coverage.

Since i haven't seen this mentioned yet, Leafeon.Leafeon is one of my fav eevos. Decent stats, useful abilities in sun, worst attacking movepool, bad typing in todays meta. It has cappabilities to work, but hardly sweep. I mean he could have at least got Elemental Fangs for better coverage.

Going to disagree here, the title of the thread is Pokemon that could be great but it type makes it bad. In all other circumstances, I totally agree with you. It just needs something to hit Fire, Flying, and Steel types and then it would be great.

Speaking of Eeveelutions, Umbreon would be beast if, you know, he didn't have the worst defensive typing ever. Resistance to 2 types that are rarely seen and an immunity to Psychic/Psyshock. That's it? That is just sad.

Speaking of Eeveelutions, Umbreon would be beast if, you know, he didn't have the worst defensive typing ever. Resistance to 2 types that are rarely seen and an immunity to Psychic/Psyshock. That's it? That is just sad.

Ah, the good old days...Umbreon was a fantastic wall. I tell you, it's those damn Fighting types' fault! Why did Gamefreak need to make so many new Fighting types? It's only purpose back in generation 4 was its ability to Baton Pass Mean Look while now it's only used for Wish support.

What ever happened to Curse and Payback on Umbreon? It can be quite annoying if played correctly.

Ah, the good old days...Umbreon was a fantastic wall. I tell you, it's those damn Fighting types' fault! Why did Gamefreak need to make so many new Fighting types? It's only purpose back in generation 4 was its ability to Baton Pass Mean Look while now it's only used for Wish support.

What ever happened to Curse and Payback on Umbreon? It can be quite annoying if played correctly.

"It can be quite annoying if played correctly" is the worst excuse ever. Its offensive power isn't good at all and anything you invest in it would be better used in its other stats.

^Yea, umbreon isn't very good and is outclassed. It has cost me my win streak in the battle subway a few times.

New Bible Verse of the Week: Zephaniah 2:3
Seek the Lord, all you humble of the earth who have carried out His ordinances; seek righteousness, seek humility. Perhaps you will be hidden in the day of the Lord’s anger.

"It can be quite annoying if played correctly" is the worst excuse ever. Its offensive power isn't good at all and anything you invest in it would be better used in its other stats.

Well, I've been walled by quite a few Curse Umbreon, despite that, I usually Baton Pass, however I still don't feel comfortable replacing Payback with Taunt. Also, I invest in its defences and come in on an offensive foe that doesn't threaten it too much.

If I had a dollar for every time someone used a reason such as "It's great if you play it right" or similar to justify using a pokemon or moveset, I would be the richest person on the Serebii forums. You're going to max out HP regardless of the circumstances, and Umbreon is just set-up fodder. The game would have been much more balanced if Umbreon got Magic Bounce instead of Espeon. At least Espeon works a little even when taunted. Talk about a younger brother stuck in his older brother's shadow. He's second even in the pokedex entry when compared to Espeon. Imagine that.

Actually Umbreon has the fighting weakness so that's why it's not viable in OU
Also he has a great support movepool, but he's walled by steel types (he only hax Toxic or Payback to attack). He's also a taunt bait :/

Also Bronzong is a good wall but if it had a Steel/Ghost typing, it'd be almost unstoppable.
Oh and Gyarados. If it was Dragon/Water...nice bulk, lots of resistances, Dragon Dance. Too bad he's flying, that makes him weak to rocks but the coverage is good since Water/Flying hits a lot of stuff.

Originally Posted by PokeMaster366

If I had a dollar for every time someone used a reason such as "It's great if you play it right" or similar to justify using a pokemon or moveset, I would be the richest person on the Serebii forums.

If I had a dollar for every time you said something stupid; I'd be tah riche$t man ever.

Oh, I was going to say why the hell is this thread here but then I guess it promotes some competitive discussion indirectly.

Can we not talk about Pokemon that are already great? Honestly, Bronzong and Gyarados are fine. They do well in OU. They have flaws, yes, but that doesn't mean they're bad due to typing.

Perhaps talk about some of the UUs/RUs/NUs and their performance in OU if their typing were to change. For instance, the Articuno mentioned earlier on is a pretty good example. Ice itself is a pretty terrible typing (Cloyster being the only Ice-type in OU... barely). Maybe Articuno, being the flying wall it is, would just love Steel/Flying. All of the resistances on the special side is just awesome (Ghost/Psychic/Dragon [the biggie]/etc), though yes the Fire/Electric weaknesses hurt it.

I wish Staraptor would be a Fighting/Flying type so we can say that every type has at least one pokemon that's part flying and so Staraptor can get more mileage out of Close Combat. Bet that would give him enough of a push to go to OU.

I would love to see Dragon / Fire Charizard. Specs Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Focus Blast / filler.. what switches in on this in sunlight without changing the weather? Even Blissey takes 68.9% - 81.2% from Fire Blast. Gastrodon takes 61.3% - 72.3%. MAX HP Kingdra eats 47.2% - 55.4%. Solar Power gives it higher SA than Deoxys A AND another 1.5 boost to its Fire STAB from Sunlight. Dragon would give Charizard a better chance to come in with SRs down and slightly better typing while making some sense visually. Sp def Heatran and Sp def Tyranitar are both OHKOed by Focus Blast.

Speaking of Eeveelutions, Umbreon would be beast if, you know, he didn't have the worst defensive typing ever. Resistance to 2 types that are rarely seen and an immunity to Psychic/Psyshock. That's it? That is just sad.

Ice type is the worst defensive typing ever. Look at Glaceon, it's stats aren't all that bad, all that's holding it back is it's type.

Ice only resist one type, and a lot of weaknesses.

Venemo Oscuridad - 8 Battles
Anyone who says all pokemon are created equal cearly hasn't had much experience with Unown.

Rather than change Ice type pokemon, wouldn't it be better if we changed the mechanics of the Ice type itself? Offensively, we know Ice is a good type but defensively, it sucks. Once resistance to...itself and bad weaknesses to Rock, Fighting and Fire. That means that all defensive Ice types automatically suck. Glaceon, Articuno, Walrein, Lapras(to an extent) and Cloyster(who, once upon a time was a decent wall) are all useless defensively because of the horrible Ice typing. Just imagine if it had a Dragon resistance(alongside others like Grass and Ground.
The bottom line is: If the Ice type mechanics are changed themselves then we get a whole load of more viable pokemon.

Rather than change Ice type pokemon, wouldn't it be better if we changed the mechanics of the Ice type itself? Offensively, we know Ice is a good type but defensively, it sucks. Once resistance to...itself and bad weaknesses to Rock, Fighting and Fire. That means that all defensive Ice types automatically suck. Glaceon, Articuno, Walrein, Lapras(to an extent) and Cloyster(who, once upon a time was a decent wall) are all useless defensively because of the horrible Ice typing. Just imagine if it had a Dragon resistance(alongside others like Grass and Ground.
The bottom line is: If the Ice type mechanics are changed themselves then we get a whole load of more viable pokemon.

Agreed, Kyurem is comparable to Ubers but sadly, it got the boot to UU and was later banned to BL making it only usable in OU and Ubers. Kyurem's awesome, great defences for an offensive Pokemon, a not to shabby base 95 Speed. Sadly, although it can go mixed, it's physical move-pool is...wait a second...Outrage? Stone Edge!? This thing can definitely run mixed but why isn't anyone doing so? Does Salamence outclass it that much? Despite that, I still prefer running Kyurem special, it's special move-pool's better but none the less, Ice typing doesn't help.