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keith writes:
3-5% loss rate & 10 avg in the almonds. That is not wishful thinking.

tecumseh:
what I was suggesting in my prior post keith was that often time the language gets a bit confusing and somefolks might think (incorrectly I might add) that a drone producing hive and a drone mother hive is one and the same thing. I think perhaps I know what you were suggesting in the prior comment concerning drone hives (maybe).

with out a doubt your results (stated) are to be commended... it should be pointed out that on MANY OCCASIONS in the beekeeping world average does necessarily mean average of a population but an average calculated from a portion or fragment of a population. a bit more robust number (for either 'populations') might be the addition of standard deviation estimate to provide folks with a better feel for variation around 'the average'.

I read where one of those 'science type persons' estimated how many 'drone mother hives' were required to saturate an area with drones for a large queen rearing operation. the number equated to an undoable task. for myself (beyond my own little efforts in selecting for drone mother hives) I somewhat to highly rely on my good neighbors bring in lots of excellent, resistant, honey collecting hives in large number and setting them about me in almost every direction. works for me....

Yes, I'm the one that doesn't winter my bees. I started spliting my packages yesterday. I bought 650 2# packages on 3-21-09 and I split and shake packages from them. I use 250-300 queens for just splits and packages on top the all the queen that I buy in my packages. With that kind of queen buying I feel I should get a better deal.

With prices of bees and queens keep jumping up each year. I just might have to buy a place in the south to just sale bees. Heck with all this honey in the north.

so let me get this straight, you let all your hives die off, then buy 2 lb packages and split them into 1 lb packages with a new extra queen??

Why? must be polination as I would suspect getting much honey off that small a hive would be unlikely??

so let me get this straight, you let all your hives die off, then buy 2 lb packages and split them into 1 lb packages with a new extra queen??

Why? must be polination as I would suspect getting much honey off that small a hive would be unlikely??

No, I'm making splits and shaking packages from the packages or hives I start back in late March. I already have a full box of bees and still have 7 weeks until the main honey flow.

My APH last year was 165 lb. Not bad with starting with 2# packages. I had 12 splits last year that produce 43 boxes of comb honey. Honey making is almost all in the queen. You have to have a queen that can produce a alot of bees when you need them.

if you are raising and makeing splits, why aren't you raising your own queens? at 15.00 each it would pay, you can raise 30 queens with about 4 hours work..... probably less time if you have a big surplus of bees and set up a queen area...... most of that time is spent setting up the mateing nucs....

The man is probably working 60 plus hours a week. He's averaging a reasonable amount of honey. He's selling some bees probably at a slightly better price than what he paid for them. This is a time when somebody is willing to give him 50-60 dollars for a package (I'm guessing). but he needs a queen. He doesn't need more work he needs a queen so he can get the $60. If he runs into a spell of bad weather he doen not have queens to sell packages. So being the sharp business man that he is, he shells out the $15 knowing that he can get $60 for his package after some effort. He does that way because it works and it is relatively predictable.

Philisophically and spiritually speaking I don't like the system because he depopulates in the fall. From a business point of view it's a great system. No overwintering hassles and losses. High school kids with a little training can help dump the packages. It's the best return of honey per hour of labour. No old queens. Hunting and fishing in the fall if you are into that kind of thing. Mexico in the winter, I personally prefer Brazil but that's another story for another day.

The man is probably working 60 plus hours a week. He's averaging a reasonable amount of honey. He's selling some bees probably at a slightly better price than what he paid for them. This is a time when somebody is willing to give him 50-60 dollars for a package (I'm guessing). but he needs a queen. He doesn't need more work he needs a queen so he can get the $60. If he runs into a spell of bad weather he doen not have queens to sell packages. So being the sharp business man that he is, he shells out the $15 knowing that he can get $60 for his package after some effort. He does that way because it works and it is relatively predictable.

Philisophically and spiritually speaking I don't like the system because he depopulates in the fall. From a business point of view it's a great system. No overwintering hassles and losses. High school kids with a little training can help dump the packages. It's the best return of honey per hour of labour. No old queens. Hunting and fishing in the fall if you are into that kind of thing. Mexico in the winter, I personally prefer Brazil but that's another story for another day.

Jean-Marc

okay, but he replied he shook them out of his hives after 5 weeks??? not possible as far as I know.... a 3 lb package doesn't double in that time, even with great queens not in a new hive..... ?? so how can you have a surplus of bees in 5 weeks?? and what do you do with them in the winter???

jean- marc
You got it and understand the time and money deal. 3# packages for $75, OK I have to spend a little to make a little. Most people only see the end product and can't see all the work that goes in to it.
Ron

okay, but he replied he shook them out of his hives after 5 weeks??? not possible as far as I know.... a 3 lb package doesn't double in that time, even with great queens not in a new hive..... ?? so how can you have a surplus of bees in 5 weeks?? and what do you do with them in the winter???

Ok by not bring the bees through winter I have all winter to get my hive bodies cleaned up. I sprayed frames full of syrup and reset boxes so the hives are ready for the packages in the sping.

By spraying syrup where the bees need to use it, the bees build up ever fast. What takes me 10 min. would take the bees weeks to do. Time is money when your trying to make a living. I must be doing something right, almost 30 years in the business.

If you don't have a surplus of bees in 5 weeks your not doing something right. Or you need to get better QUEENS! I'll sell you one for $20.

Ok by not bring the bees through winter I have all winter to get my hive bodies cleaned up. I sprayed frames full of syrup and reset boxes so the hives are ready for the packages in the sping.

By spraying syrup where the bees need to use it, the bees build up ever fast. What takes me 10 min. would take the bees weeks to do. Time is money when your trying to make a living. I must be doing something right, almost 30 years in the business.

If you don't have a surplus of bees in 5 weeks your not doing something right. Or you need to get better QUEENS! I'll sell you one for $20.

o/o Ron Householder

don't get me wrong never sad you were doing anything wrong, just trying to understand it....... might be something in there valuable for me also....

A few questions.... one what do you do with the bees in the fall???? kick them out ? kill them?? sell them off???

And you spray the frames with syrup... very interesting I could see how that might help packages be ready to shake a lot quicker, as nectar and pollen are in short supply early here....

you also mention your honey poundage numbers which seemed odd ot me but i could see that if yoru takeing all the honey, I leave 100 lbs on each hive so I could see that as a plus.

The syrup, what kind of mix and how many frames?? and how do you spray it??

Don't get me wrong, not trying to be critical at all just trying to follow....... if i could get that kind of buildup from packages I would be delerious!.... generaly pollen paties in feb and by may 1 I can shake out packaes or splits off of 2 year old hives.