If a drink was enough I don't think a cellist would go out of their way to obtain a beta blocker. Most rules for cheating are reactive not proactive. The rules are set after it became known that people were using means to gain an unfair advantage over everyone else.

BENCHMARK RULES AND GUIDELINES

People rely on Futuremark benchmarks to produce accurate and unbiased results. We safeguard that trust by having clear rules for hardware manufacturers and software developers that specify how a platform must interact with our benchmark software. In simple terms:

A platform must run the benchmark without modification as if it were any other application.

Optimization policy

Benchmark specific optimizations are not allowed. Additionally, all generic optimizations that change the work specified by the benchmark are prohibited.

The platform may not change the quality level of the work.

The platform may not use an alternative technique to that requested by the workload.

The platform may not replace or remove any portion of the requested work even if the change would result in the same output.

Optimizations based on empirical data of benchmark workloads are not allowed.

Optimizations that change the output of the work are not allowed.

Application detection

The platform may not detect the launch of the benchmark executable. The platform must not alter, replace or override any parameters or parts of the test, nor modify the usual functioning of the platform based on the detection of the benchmark.

Exceptions

The platform may detect the benchmark application if it is the general approach for enabling specific platform features, such as multi-GPU use.

The platform may detect the benchmark application if there is a known conflict between the benchmark application and the platform that would otherwise prevent the benchmark from functioning correctly. This must be pre-approved with Futuremark.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.

BENCHMARK RULES AND GUIDELINES

People rely on Futuremark benchmarks to produce accurate and unbiased results. We safeguard that trust by having clear rules for hardware manufacturers and software developers that specify how a platform must interact with our benchmark software. In simple terms:

A platform must run the benchmark without modification as if it were any other application.

Optimization policy

Benchmark specific optimizations are not allowed. Additionally, all generic optimizations that change the work specified by the benchmark are prohibited.

The platform may not change the quality level of the work.

The platform may not use an alternative technique to that requested by the workload.

The platform may not replace or remove any portion of the requested work even if the change would result in the same output.

Optimizations based on empirical data of benchmark workloads are not allowed.

Optimizations that change the output of the work are not allowed.

Application detection

The platform may not detect the launch of the benchmark executable. The platform must not alter, replace or override any parameters or parts of the test, nor modify the usual functioning of the platform based on the detection of the benchmark.

Exceptions

The platform may detect the benchmark application if it is the general approach for enabling specific platform features, such as multi-GPU use.

The platform may detect the benchmark application if there is a known conflict between the benchmark application and the platform that would otherwise prevent the benchmark from functioning correctly. This must be pre-approved with Futuremark.

Thanks for the info but the discussion had turned toward PEDs.

"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX

Oh, shut up. I don’t really see why you’re allowed to keep posting here; you’ve admitted to doing this on purpose in the past.

To doing what? My comment he quoted wasn't about cheating on testing procedures which will always naturally have anti-cheating rules in place from the beginning. I was cordial and respectful in my reply and very unlike how you respond to people.

"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX

To doing what? My comment he quoted wasn't about cheating on testing procedures which will always naturally have anti-cheating rules in place from the beginning. I was cordial and respectful in my reply and very unlike how you respond to people.

Bringing in a strawman when all along this whole article was about a specific set of circumstances.

Anyhow, I'm off for a drive, I have a 1,000hp car which beats the pants off everything on the road, I've seen the benchmarks and linked to them before, I'll be able to have a BBQ on the bonnet or "hood" as I think you call it, it should turn out alright as long as you don't mind the flavour of burnt paint.

Hey maybe I can fire up a benchmark on my S4 and cook an egg on the side.

Edited by hill60 - 11/29/13 at 12:06pm

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.

Bringing in a strawman when all along this whole article was about a specific set of circumstances.

Anyhow, I'm off for a drive, I have a 1,000hp car which beats the pants off everything on the road, I've seen the benchmarks and linked to them before, I'll be able to have a BBQ on the bonnet or "hood" as I think you call it, it should turn out alright as long as you don't mind the flavour of burnt paint.

Hey maybe I can fire up a benchmark on my S4 and cook an egg on the side.

How is it a strawman? The discussion turned towards what is considered cheating. I merely pointed out that it happens a lot more often than people realize.

"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX

One way is to check the code to look that tells the CPU and/or GPU to disable thermal limits when certain tests are detected. The other way, in case that smoking gun isn't found, is to simply run a test with a standard benchmark app, then run it again after changing the signature of the app. If the thermal limits are removed on after using a unique signature then the previous benchmark was doped.

Thank you for an honest and simple answer, and not sarcastically answering and yelling "troll".

Pure bullshit, the Note 3 only takes 8 photos in burst mode, the S4 takes 20, after taking the photo's instead of being immediately available like on the 5S, the Samsung's just hang there showing "processing".

Typical whiny response based on fantasy from butthurt fanatics who can't accept that Apple is way in front of their shitty Android.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.

In another thread he also claimed the Note 3 was better because it had more megapixels.

You guys need to brush up on your reading skills. And don't make yourself so desperate trying to run down my posts haphazardly. :p

Firstly, I said in Note3 can do burst mode as fast as 5s even though it is capturing 13MP compared to 8MP with 5s.

Secondly, I said Note3 camera kills 5s camera in capability/functionality. Well, can 5s do 4K video recording or record audio in stereo? No. Can 5s do all the various scene modes (like front+back shot, 360 pano, etc) ? No.

You guys need to brush up on your reading skills. And don't make yourself so desperate trying to run down my posts haphazardly.

Firstly, I said in Note3 can do burst mode as fast as 5s even though it is capturing 13MP compared to 8MP with 5s.

Secondly, I said Note3 camera kills 5s camera in capability/functionality. Well, can 5s do 4K video recording or record audio in stereo? No. Can 5s do all the various scene modes (like front+back shot, 360 pano, etc) ? No.

You wrote….

"5s 8M camera < Note3 13M"

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

No problem then. As you care about hardware specs more than actual picture quality then we needn't argue any further.

Why did you come to this conclusion?

I read reviews of 5s and Note3 camera. Both are very good overall. I would just say you wouldn't go wrong with either of these cameras. You must be surprised. You thought I would say Note3 is the best beating 5S due to higher megapixel count. :p I would not be so naive to see the world wearing such a reality distortion glasses. But I bet a lot of members here would argue that 5S camera trounces anything out there and it is THE best camera in every aspects and the rest can't hold a candle to it.

Personally for me, I would prefer the Note3 camera not because of its higher megapixel but because of the camera software. I think many here would say those features are gimmick. I particularly like the front+back shot and the 360 pano. I bet you would have something to say on this. :)

No problem then. As you care about hardware specs more than actual picture quality then we needn't argue any further.

Why did you come to this conclusion?

I read reviews of 5s and Note3 camera. Both are very good overall. I would just say you wouldn't go wrong with either of these cameras. You must be surprised. You thought I would say Note3 is the best beating 5S due to higher megapixel count. I would not be so naive to see the world wearing such a reality distortion glasses. But I bet a lot of members here would argue that 5S camera trounces anything out there and it is THE best camera in every aspects and the rest can't hold a candle to it.

Personally for me, I would prefer the Note3 camera not because of its higher megapixel but because of the camera software. I think many here would say those features are gimmick. I particularly like the front+back shot and the 360 pano. I bet you would have something to say on this.

Absolutely. I would say that if you had simply stated your preference for those features, rather than making blanket statements about the superiority of the Note3 based on specs then the conversation would have gone quite differently.

Absolutely. I would say that if you had simply stated your preference for those features, rather than making blanket statements about the superiority of the Note3 based on specs then the conversation would have gone quite differently.

Why do you always put words into my mouth? I never said Note3 is superior as a blanket statement. All I said was 5s is over-priced given its hardware specs. Don't tell me 1Gb ram in 5s cost more than 3Gb in Note3. However, we do know whatever specs don't matter compared to personal preference or someone's value consideration, isnt it? To me, 5s is way over-priced given its specs but to someone else maybe the Note3 is just rubbish at any price because he/she has a built-in hatred for the manufacturer.

Absolutely. I would say that if you had simply stated your preference for those features, rather than making blanket statements about the superiority of the Note3 based on specs then the conversation would have gone quite differently.

Why do you always put words into my mouth? I never said Note3 is superior as a blanket statement. All I said was 5s is over-priced given its hardware specs. Don't tell me 1Gb ram in 5s cost more than 3Gb in Note3. However, we do know whatever specs don't matter compared to personal preference or someone's value consideration, isnt it? To me, 5s is way over-priced given its specs but to someone else maybe the Note3 is just rubbish at any price because he/she has a built-in hatred for the manufacturer.

Summarizing your assertions is not putting words into your mouth, especially since you continue to repeat those assertions in various different guises in each of your posts while simultaneously denying that you are making them.

This time, for example, you state that in your opinion the iPhone is overpriced for its specs, but that others may regard the Note3 as inferior because of their hatred of Samsung. Not only an obvious statement that the Note3 is superior, but also a false dichotomy with the implication that your opinion of the iPhone is justified and reasonable, but that a low opinion of the Note3 is necessarily unreasonable.

Anyway - feel free to continue posting but since your posts seem to be entirely devoted to making random assertions as to why the Note3 is better than the iPhone, I guarantee that your audience is shrinking.

Why do you always put words into my mouth? I never said Note3 is superior as a blanket statement. All I said was 5s is over-priced given its hardware specs. Don't tell me 1Gb ram in 5s cost more than 3Gb in Note3. However, we do know whatever specs don't matter compared to personal preference or someone's value consideration, isnt it? To me, 5s is way over-priced given its specs but to someone else maybe the Note3 is just rubbish at any price because he/she has a built-in hatred for the manufacturer.

You really need to get off this foolish notion that how much profit a company makes indicates how much your'e being overcharged. Even if you break down their iPhone into each SKU they still have less models than Samsung. Do you know that means? It means that for the same model Apple sells a lot more units which reduces the cost per unit. There is a term for this but I want you to look for it yourself (that's your homework for tonight).

You also need to get off this foolish notion that looking at one aspect of a component means it's on par as another component simply because it has one thing in common with it. A 300 PPI PentTile display is not the same a 300 PPI LCD, which could be TN, IP et al. include IGZO and other technologies, and could plenty of other features that you don't even know exist because you only read spec sheets. Have you even seen how the pixels look on the iPhone compared to the Note 3 or seen how the HW is able to trace a point accurately.

You think a bigger casing and display means that it costs than a smaller one. You simply aren't willing to accept that not all things are created equal. Do you think a 6oz of beef at McDonald's is the same as a 60z filet at a high end steak house? Of course not, and yet you refuse to consider how something that has some similar category could be different in multiple ways.

Finally, you think because other vendors lose money on their product from poor unit sales, impuissant component sourcing, nonexistent crossover engineering, inefficient manufacturing, and quickly having to reduce prices to move product that it means that Apple is overcharging you you don't seem very bright. The point of a product is what it's value is to you. This means it doesn't matter what it cost the vendor if it's the best product for your needs at a given price. You also need to consider the resale value since that's money you get. A canny buyer will consider that an iPhone will be worth more after 2 years of use than other products, which isn't unlike a canny buyer considering the performance of the device, not simply a list of specs.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Summarizing your assertions is not putting words into your mouth, especially since you continue to repeat those assertions in various different guises in each of your posts while simultaneously denying that you are making them.

This time, for example, you state that in your opinion the iPhone is overpriced for its specs, but that others may regard the Note3 as inferior because of their hatred of Samsung. Not only an obvious statement that the Note3 is superior, but also a false dichotomy with the implication that your opinion of the iPhone is justified and reasonable, but that a low opinion of the Note3 is necessarily unreasonable.

Anyway - feel free to continue posting but since your posts seem to be entirely devoted to making random assertions as to why the Note3 is better than the iPhone, I guarantee that your audience is shrinking.

I think you are over-analysing. I have never hide the fact that I'm an android fan. I don't post here with the intention to stir up a frenzy among some members here (but obviously some can easily be). I only want to counter those points made which I feel are inaccurate (like ... " only 1/10 premium phone are note3 so phablet is not popular" - if it had said 1/10 of all smartphones sold by samsung, then most probably I'll let it go). If you want debate the merit of your beloved iphone against an android phone then go an create a thread and I will debate with you too. But I will never create a thread/blog with an over-the-top title to peddle my favorite phone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX

You really need to get off this foolish notion that how much profit a company makes indicates how much your'e being overcharged. Even if you break down their iPhone into each SKU they still have less models than Samsung. Do you know that means? It means that for the same model Apple sells a lot more units which reduces the cost per unit. There is a term for this but I want you to look for it yourself (that's your homework for tonight).

You also need to get off this foolish notion that looking at one aspect of a component means it's on par as another component simply because it has one thing in common with it. A 300 PPI PentTile display is not the same a 300 PPI LCD, which could be TN, IP et al. include IGZO and other technologies, and could plenty of other features that you don't even know exist because you only read spec sheets. Have you even seen how the pixels look on the iPhone compared to the Note 3 or seen how the HW is able to trace a point accurately.

You think a bigger casing and display means that it costs than a smaller one. You simply aren't willing to accept that not all things are created equal. Do you think a 6oz of beef at McDonald's is the same as a 60z filet at a high end steak house? Of course not, and yet you refuse to consider how something that has some similar category could be different in multiple ways.

Finally, you think because other vendors lose money on their product from poor unit sales, impuissant component sourcing, nonexistent crossover engineering, inefficient manufacturing, and quickly having to reduce prices to move product that it means that Apple is overcharging you you don't seem very bright. The point of a product is what it's value is to you. This means it doesn't matter what it cost the vendor if it's the best product for your needs at a given price. You also need to consider the resale value since that's money you get. A canny buyer will consider that an iPhone will be worth more after 2 years of use than other products, which isn't unlike a canny buyer considering the performance of the device, not simply a list of specs.

I can understand what you are saying. I know the selling price is way higher than BOQ costing. It is more about market demand. Just like selling bottled water or perfume give something like 95% gross margin. As long as there are people who are willing to pay then it is considered value-for-money.

But we do know one fact. In countries (US/GB/Aust/Japan) where the face-value price of the phone is low (or free) and has similar price to other high-end phones, iphone is barely holding to its market share. In countries where subsidy is not given so extensively, you can see iphone is losing a lot of market share.

On a manufacturer-to-manufacturer comparison, Apple year-on-year growth is considerably lower than the most android manufacturers. You may argue that the other manufacturers have growth because they all sold crap and cheap phones. But that's not exactly the case with Samsung. S4/Note3 is selling at a much faster rate and volume than last year combo S3/Note2. I also read some report that 5s/5c combo didnt give a boost to Apple like 5/4s did last year.

Isnt this a sign that iphone is no longer as attractive to buyers compared to past days? One factor maybe because it is too pricey compared to what competitors give (like big screen, more functions etc) or second factor people have started to lose interest. If it is the former, it is not so bad. Apple can always lower price and people will flock back. If it is the second factor, then Apple maybe in trouble. I remember RAZR phone from Moto. It was like sky high price initially people still go crazy over it. But after a few generation of the same thing, people lost interest and no matter how much the price was dropped later nobody wanted it anymore.

On a manufacturer-to-manufacturer comparison, Apple year-on-year growth is considerably lower than the most android manufacturers. You may argue that the other manufacturers have growth because they all sold crap and cheap phones. But that's not exactly the case with Samsung. S4/Note3 is selling at a much faster rate and volume than last year combo S3/Note2. I also read some report that 5s/5c combo didnt give a boost to Apple like 5/4s did last year.

Isnt this a sign that iphone is no longer as attractive to buyers compared to past days? One factor maybe because it is too pricey compared to what competitors give (like big screen, more functions etc) or second factor people have started to lose interest. If it is the former, it is not so bad. Apple can always lower price and people will flock back. If it is the second factor, then Apple maybe in trouble. I remember RAZR phone from Moto. It was like sky high price initially people still go crazy over it. But after a few generation of the same thing, people lost interest and no matter how much the price was dropped later nobody wanted it anymore.

Are you high? No, seriously, are you? Or drunk? Or both?

For the love of Hera, just YESTERDAY it was reported that for EVERY. SINGLE. MAJOR. CARRIER. in the US, the iPhone 5S is #1 and the 5C is #3. So, I have to ask: WTF are you talking about?! You Android fans can go on and on about Market Share until you're blue in the face. The FACT is that Apple controls a giant percentage of mobile phone PROFITS!

And if Market Share is so freakin' important, then why do so many apps start as exclusive on the App Store, with some of them never even migrating to Google Play. Here, I'll give you the answer: Because Android users don't spend nearly as much money as iOS users. Heck, a lot of Android phones are essentially feature phones anyways.

On a manufacturer-to-manufacturer comparison, Apple year-on-year growth is considerably lower than the most android manufacturers. You may argue that the other manufacturers have growth because they all sold crap and cheap phones. But that's not exactly the case with Samsung. S4/Note3 is selling at a much faster rate and volume than last year combo S3/Note2. I also read some report that 5s/5c combo didnt give a boost to Apple like 5/4s did last year.

Isnt this a sign that iphone is no longer as attractive to buyers compared to past days? One factor maybe because it is too pricey compared to what competitors give (like big screen, more functions etc) or second factor people have started to lose interest. If it is the former, it is not so bad. Apple can always lower price and people will flock back. If it is the second factor, then Apple maybe in trouble. I remember RAZR phone from Moto. It was like sky high price initially people still go crazy over it. But after a few generation of the same thing, people lost interest and no matter how much the price was dropped later nobody wanted it anymore.

Are you high? No, seriously, are you? Or drunk? Or both?

For the love of Hera, just YESTERDAY it was reported that for EVERY. SINGLE. MAJOR. CARRIER. in the US, the iPhone 5S is #1 and the 5C is #3. So, I have to ask: WTF are you talking about?! You Android fans can go on and on about Market Share until you're blue in the face. The FACT is that Apple controls a giant percentage of mobile phone PROFITS!

And if Market Share is so freakin' important, then why do so many apps start as exclusive on the App Store, with some of them never even migrating to Google Play. Here, I'll give you the answer: Because Android users don't spend nearly as much money as iOS users. Heck, a lot of Android phones are essentially feature phones anyways.

Some free advice: Put down the crack pipe.

Rewind one year to this same period and you get the same news that iPhone is the best selling at major carriers.

Fact that s4 is still at 2nd is testament that galaxy phones are at a better position this year than last.

The 5s seems to have a lesser impact than the 5 launch. Is it likely that it can stop the decline and completely reverse the market share curve when the 5 cannot?

Rewind one year to this same period and you get the same news that iPhone is the best selling at major carriers.

Fact that s4 is still at 2nd is testament that galaxy phones are at a better position this year than last.

The 5s seems to have a lesser impact than the 5 launch. Is it likely that it can stop the decline and completely reverse the market share curve when the 5 cannot?

So now your argument that the iPhone is failing is because it hasn't moved UP from the number ONE position? WHAT THE **** ARE YOU SMOKING?! Do you not understand what number one means?

As for the the unit sale success of the S4 have you not seen the ads for it begin heavily discounted in price? But that's really not relevant to its position in the US. It's success is that it's beating other Android-based devices. Samsung is number one in Android but they are very distant number one in the smartphone market.

PS: If you want to count YoY changes in a simply count of one, two, three, then note the S4 isn't number 2 across the board. It's being beaten by the iPhone 5C which is mostly 2012 components. It also shows that Apple owns a lot more of the one, two and three level rankings than it did a year prior.

PPS: You really suck at comprehension or you're a paid shill. I hope the latter because the former is extremely pathetic and the latter, while lacking in any moral fiber is at least you attempting to earn a living.Edited by SolipsismX - 12/14/13 at 9:27pm

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Rewind one year to this same period and you get the same news that iPhone is the best selling at major carriers.

Fact that s4 is still at 2nd is testament that galaxy phones are at a better position this year than last.

The 5s seems to have a lesser impact than the 5 launch. Is it likely that it can stop the decline and completely reverse the market share curve when the 5 cannot?

So now your argument that the iPhone is failing is because it hasn't moved UP from the number ONE position? WHAT THE **** ARE YOU SMOKING?! Do you not understand what number one means?

As for the the unit sale success of the S4 have you not seen the ads for it begin heavily discounted in price? But that's really not relevant to its position in the US. It's success is that it's beating other Android-based devices. Samsung is number one in Android but they are very distant number one in the smartphone market.

PS: If you want to count YoY changes in a simply count of one, two, three, then note the S4 isn't number 2 across the board. It's being beaten by the iPhone 5C which is mostly 2012 components. It also shows that Apple owns a lot more of the one, two and three level rankings than it did a year prior.

PPS: You really suck at comprehension you're a paid shill. I hope the latter because the former is extremely pathetic and the latter, while lacking in any moral fiber is at least you attempting to earn a living.

If your math is so good then why did iphone has lower share this Oct compared to Oct last year around the world? Oct is when the sale of 5 and 5s were at full swing this and last year.

If your math is so good then why did iphone has lower share this Oct compared to Oct last year around the world? Oct is when the sale of 5 and 5s were at full swing this and last year.

First tell these hard numbers you have for the iPhone in Oct 2013 v Oct 2012.

The hard numbers I have are "The Company sold 33.8 million iPhones, a record for the September [2013] quarter, compared to 26.9 million in the year-ago quarter," as well as 9 million iPhones launch weekend in 2013 v 5 million on launch weekend in 2012. The quarter that contains the month of Oct also contains Nov and Dec and since it's still Dec (check a calendar if you need to, I'll wait) there is no word from Apple that their sales are indeed lower in fiscal Q1 2014 over Q1 2013.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

If your math is so good then why did iphone has lower share this Oct compared to Oct last year around the world? Oct is when the sale of 5 and 5s were at full swing this and last year.

First tell these hard numbers you have for the iPhone in Oct 2013 v Oct 2012.

The hard numbers I have are "The Company sold 33.8 million iPhones, a record for the September [2013] quarter, compared to 26.9 million in the year-ago quarter," as well as 9 million iPhones launch weekend in 2013 v 5 million on launch weekend in 2012. The quarter that contains the month of Oct also contains Nov and Dec and since it's still Dec (check a calendar if you need to, I'll wait) there is no word from Apple that their sales are indeed lower in fiscal Q1 2014 over Q1 2013.

Again, please, put down the crack. I've done it. It can be fun. It's ultimately quite bad for you.

No one cares how many WP people are buying, unless they are premium phones. Apple doesn't compete in the "I'm-a-feature-phone-cross-dressed-as-a-smartphone" market. They never have. They never will. How much of those supposed gains in WP marketshare were PREMIUM phones?

How much did WP gain in PROFIT compared to iOS? How much are devs making from selling apps for WP as opposed to iOS? What is the clickthrough rate on ads for WP vs. iOS? Etc.

Market Share is MEANINGLESS without some connection to PROFIT. You can sell 100 widgets with a $1 margin, creating $100 profit. If I sell 25 widgets with a $10 margin, I create $250 profit. If you want the $100 vs. the $250, fine. Take it. I will GLADLY take the 1/5th Market Share, but 2.5x your profits.

I just cannot beleive that this is THAT complicated.

ETA: There are 2 companies -- *2* -- in the whole world that actually MAKE money selling phones: Apple and Samsung. Nokia? Please. HTC? You're kidding, right? And don't even get me started on Moto or LG. Now, in Nokia's situation, it's a serious problem. Same with HTC. With LG and Moto, not so much. Mobile devices is such a tiny part of what LG does, it really doesn't matter. With Moto, obviously a few million here or there don't matter to a massive advertising company like Google, which generates profits in the BILLIONS.

Again, please, put down the crack. I've done it. It can be fun. It's ultimately quite bad for you.

No one cares how many WP people are buying, unless they are premium phones. Apple doesn't compete in the "I'm-a-feature-phone-cross-dressed-as-a-smartphone" market. They never have. They never will. How much of those supposed gains in WP marketshare were PREMIUM phones?

How much did WP gain in PROFIT compared to iOS? How much are devs making from selling apps for WP as opposed to iOS? What is the clickthrough rate on ads for WP vs. iOS? Etc.

Market Share is MEANINGLESS without some connection to PROFIT. You can sell 100 widgets with a $1 margin, creating $100 profit. If I sell 25 widgets with a $10 margin, I create $250 profit. If you want the $100 vs. the $250, fine. Take it. I will GLADLY take the 1/5th Market Share, but 2.5x your profits.

I just cannot beleive that this is THAT complicated.

ETA: There are 2 companies -- *2* -- in the whole world that actually MAKE money selling phones: Apple and Samsung. Nokia? Please. HTC? You're kidding, right? And don't even get me started on Moto or LG. Now, in Nokia's situation, it's a serious problem. Same with HTC. With LG and Moto, not so much. Mobile devices is such a tiny part of what LG does, it really doesn't matter. With Moto, obviously a few million here or there don't matter to a massive advertising company like Google, which generates profits in the BILLIONS.

You can only make profit if you can sell phones. Keep harping on profit. But wait apple profit seems to have dropped compared to previously.

And i hope you are not a good example of being a true blue apple fan. Always rude and arrogant just like apple.