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Topic: Live recording issues (Read 3825 times)

I apologize is you already know this, but it doesn't sound like it from what you've written so far:

I think you've got way too much gain somewhere downstream of the desk and are applying way too little at the board in order to compensate.

Feedback is a result of overall gain, not just the input gain on the mixer. The input gain should be used to get the signal to the correct level inside the board regardless of the intended final volume. You control the overall volume of a particular mix at the master fader and aux master knobs/faders, or somewhere else down the chain to the amps. Typically that would be at the speaker processor, but you can attenuate the signal at the amp as well. For convenience I usually use the output of the graphic at FOH. My master fader stays at 0 and I have plenty of level at the main fader, bouncing around 0dBVU, and at my multitrack (HD24 fed from splits on the send side of the inserts), peaking around -18dBFS or so.

I just realized something about the monitors and the desk. First of all, there really isn't a lot of gain somewhere in the mix. However, here's what I found out. My desk's supposed to feed the auxes like this:

Pre: Pre-mute, pre-eq, pre-faderPost: Post-mute, pre-eq, pre-fader

This is what the manual says. However, when I feed the monitors pre-eq then the volume on the monitor is VERY low. And I mean LOW. It's almost impossible for a vocalist to hear themselves unless I feed the monitor up to eleven. That means no feedback, by the way. When it's post-eq, then I need to bypass the graphic eqs that are used for the monitors, as it all gets muddy (duh!) but as that leaves me with no control over the monitors in terms of eq, that's definitely not something I prefer. So, it's obvious that there's something wrong in there, which I have no idea about. I would say there's something with the graphic eqs, but there are 2x2 graph eqs which means at least there would be a feed somewhere that does work. Any ideas about this?

You might try some kind of line amplifier between the "pre-EQ" send and the input to the equalizer for the monitor. Something like an FMR "RNC" compressor [about $175 USD for two channels] will give you the ability to raise the gain in that signal path [you don't need to use the compressor function unless you want to... you just leave the "ratio" at "1:1" -- the "threshold" at "0"... and use the output gain function to kick up the output by as much as 15db.

This should solve all your problems for a reasonable price tag.

Peace

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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid

"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch. If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too. It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three" Malcolm Chisholm

You might try some kind of line amplifier between the "pre-EQ" send and the input to the equalizer for the monitor. Something like an FMR "RNC" compressor [about $175 USD for two channels] will give you the ability to raise the gain in that signal path [you don't need to use the compressor function unless you want to... you just leave the "ratio" at "1:1" -- the "threshold" at "0"... and use the output gain function to kick up the output by as much as 15db.

This should solve all your problems for a reasonable price tag.

Peace

Thanks for the suggestion. Will try that with a guitar processor's compressor to see how it works to begin with.

Another question: Do you think I need a mic preamp? I mean, I thought I wouldn't need one as it's a nice desk but I really struggle with vocalists. Like the other day, it was a basic quartet (v, p, b, d) and my last option was to send the vocal channel to the sub groups and raise that around -20. Of course, it had something to do with the vocalist as well but I really hate the fact that the desk's meter reads nothing when I have vocalist on stage.

The desk should have its own set of microphone level amplifiers -- not knowing what desk you're talking about I can't be sure... but they are usually at the top of the channel strip.

A "guitar compressor" [as in a "stomp box"] will NOT work!!! It is looking for an entirely different level than will be provided by the insert point of a desk [not to mention the impedance mismatch, etc., etc., etc.]. You will need some form or "line amplifier" to raise the gain on something like a console insert point.

Peace

Logged

CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid

"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch. If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too. It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three" Malcolm Chisholm