SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine/KIEV (Reuters) - Crimeans voted in a referendum on Sunday on whether to break away from Ukraine and join Russia, with Kiev accusing Moscow of rapidly building up its armed forces on...

The turnout for the referendum in Crimea at 5.p.m. local time was 70%. The vote will be closed at 8.p.m. Fabrizio Berto, a member of the European Parliament, who came to Crimea to monitor the referendum, said: I have seen no violations there. People have been voting as usual. Nothing out of the ordinary. Everything is like at elections in Italy. The way it should be everywhere.

Why would any non-suicidal resident of the Crimea vote to remain in the Ukraine now that Vladimir Putin has made it clear he intends to invade the Ukraine and smash any opposition to a Russian takeover?

One way or another, the Crimeans will be under Russian rule. Their only choice is if they want to be dead or alive when the Russian flag is raised over Kiev. Choosing life means choosing to appease the Russian bear today with a Yes vote.

If life in the new, expanded Russia does not meet with the Crimeans’ approval, they can mount an organized opposition movement — not the kind of ad hoc radical uprising by a crazed mob of arsonists that took place in Kiev and wound up igniting Vladimir Putin’s wrath, which is now leading NOT to freedom and democracy but to the crushing of the entire Ukraine.

"But ethnic Tatars - Sunni Muslims who make up 12 percent of Crimea's population - said they would boycott the vote despite promises by the regional authorities to give them financial aid and proper land rights."

It's on the Eastern European Time (EET) 7 hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time. Currently they haven't gone back on daylight savings time, so they are temporarily 6 hours ahead of EDT. They are 1 hour behind Moscow time and 2 hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time.

14
posted on 03/16/2014 10:47:30 AM PDT
by Paleo Conservative
(Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)

I believe the real question will be if Russia has its sights on Eastern Ukraine as well.

I'm fairly certain that since Kiev is the seat of Ukrainian independence, they'll take Kiev and with it, the rest of the Ukraine.

Then Putin will promise that's all he wants, and after all, it was to protect ethnic Russians in Crimea. And Horseface Kerry will get a "treaty" signed stating that's all Putin wanted, and will wave it around in victory, claiming "Peace in our time!"

History repeats itself. Last time, it was The Sudatenland, this time, Ukraine. Same 5#it, different era, only the names and geography have changed.

Mark

15
posted on 03/16/2014 10:48:25 AM PDT
by MarkL
(Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)

I believe the real question will be if Russia has its sights on Eastern Ukraine as well.

I think they have their sights on the whole of the former Warsaw Pact countries that used to be Soviet satellites. I've gotten reports that the Russians are sending in lots of men and supplies to Moldova which is located between Romania and Ukraine.

18
posted on 03/16/2014 10:51:25 AM PDT
by Paleo Conservative
(Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)

“We encourage Kosovo to break away, then get upset when Russia tries to do the same in Crimea. Whats good for the goose, right?”

The internationally recognized right to self-determination is satisfied when a defined group is able to exercise its own choice regarding its political future. On July 2010, the International Court decided that the declaration of independence of Kosovo did not violate general international law, basically because the international law contains no prohibition on declarations of independence. WHY would be any different for the Republic of Crimea, who declared already its independence from Ukraine prior to the referendum?

According to current principles of state practice, most recently used to analyze the secessions of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, and Macedonia, minorities within existing states can secede as a means to gain self-determination only when they meet the following six criteria for self-determination: (1) the existence of a distinct, self-defined group within a state that overwhelmingly supports separatism; (2) a legitimate claim to the territory; (3) a pattern of systematic discrimination or exploitation against a sizable, self-defined minority; (4) the central government's rejection of compromise solutions; (5) the prospect of the territory and people concerned becoming a viable state; and (6) the effect of granting or refusing self-determination on regional and international peace, the effectuation of authoritative governmental processes and respect for human rights, and the impact on both regional and global value processes.

Wrong! I've been to all the time zones involved. It is 2 hours ahead of GMT, but GMT is just 5 hours ahead of EST not 7. They haven't gone on daylight savings time yet, to it is currently only 6 hours ahead of EDT.

39
posted on 03/16/2014 11:13:04 AM PDT
by Paleo Conservative
(Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)

So what? Back in the era of the European empires, the British especially would use local conflicts such as this as a method of adding to their empire. The US wasn't involved in the former Yugoslavia for economic or territorial gain.

44
posted on 03/16/2014 11:18:15 AM PDT
by Paleo Conservative
(Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)

Question—What will Ukraine do? Will they attack? Crack down on Russians not living in Criemea? Will they re-arm? Will they cut the gas pipes? Try to cut off Criemea in some way? The ball is now in their court. Today and tomorrow are the most important time for Russia—Ukraine, the world. Fighting could become the spark that could set off the whole of Europe and the world.

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