But this is the only place I have to vent where people care enough to reply.

j1h15233 wrote:

They've never come right out and said it, but I thought it was pretty obvious that WB/DC came to them and said you have to change it up. It's reboot time for us so we want you to follow suit. Think about how bad their SDCC presentation was last year. It was almost like they had gotten the news that it was New 52 time a couple of days before the show.

It's sort of been discussed before, but I don't really think it's been given enough discussion. Here's my take on what we need to happen and what Mattel needs to keep in mind when they offer up the 2013 sub. There is a lot of comparison to the Club Eternia sub both with fans and with Mattel, but DC and MOTU are two completely different beasts. MOTUC succeeds so well as a sub because the whole story revolves around He-Man and She-Ra and their friends and foes, it's all one big story. DC, on the other hand, is a lot of little stories that occassionally cross paths in a bigger universe. Some fans are all about the Batman part of that universe and others about the Legion. Some only follow Superman while others follow everything. The sub is great for those who follow/love everything but day-of sales, I think, are where the difference is going to need to be made. If a Batman related character is up, then those fans need to be there and buy and make sure the other fans they know are also aware of the product. Metal Men fans need to be there when Platinum and Tin go on sale. Same for Flash fans with Mirror Master. Making the product known to the divisions of fans so that quick sell-outs happen for each sub-set is going to be key in keeping this sort of offering available on Matty more than subs will. Yes, subs are important because Mattel does need some idea of "guaranteed" sales, but we need to show them that day-of purchases can also be strong if you can reach the proper fans like how fast the LoSH set sold-through.

Trying to put this concept into words wasn't the easiest thing for me -- too many thoughts whizzing around my head at once. I hope I got what I was trying to say out and across (and I hope that one of you manages to understand what I was trying to say and articulates it better than I have).

Does it always? Nope. Would it with a Batman figure? I think so. Catman seemed to sell pretty well. Maybe he didn't everywhere. The pegwarmers here were Mr Freeze. Black Mask looks cool.

He definitely didn't around here. Batman Legacy has more or less been a disaster here, actually. Catwoman and Batman are now literally rotting on the pegs at my Walmarts. There's easily a half dozen of each, and the same could've been said for Catman, Batgirl - in fact, all of them rotted pretty well.

Bunger43 wrote:

I love your last line though. It's a forum. We debate issues. If you didn't want to talk about this with me, why even begin? How often do any of us change the minds of another on a message board? I've even admitted that mattel could easily change my mind.

My point is that you've been told a hundred times that the reason that certain characters ended up in the sub when they could have been sold at retail was to get the sub off the ground, and you still don't buy it. There's nothing else I can say.

The characters that were presented at SDCC were already in the pipeline for retail. Poison Ivy was tossed in to sweeten the pot and entice people to buy-in. She was #2 on the Fwoosh's wishlist last February. I can't find the polls on AFi, but I'm sure she was easily top ten. She was the perfect candidate to toss in the sub to get as many people to bite as possible, out of fear that they wouldn't get her otherwise.

You didn't answer me. Who would you have put in to get a bigger buy-in?

My point (which you obviously don't seem to get much like I don't seem to be getting yours) is that some of the figures we are getting in the sub should have logically already been put out, and for whatever reason weren't. I hope day of sales for some of these figures are great, not sure they will be.

And like I said...you have a batman themed line at retail, don't waste two spots in the sub with batman themed characters. (I'd argue not to put huntress too, but since we're talking)

MoMoney wrote:

You didn't answer me. Who would you have put in to get a bigger buy-in?

My point (which you obviously don't seem to get much like I don't seem to be getting yours) is that some of the figures we are getting in the sub should have logically already been put out, and for whatever reason weren't. I hope day of sales for some of these figures are great, not sure they will be.

sorry dude but this point could be made for every single toy line that ended "too" early, there will always be people that say, hey you should have released this guy instead of that guy and blah blah

I don't disagree, except that not every toy line that ends early (or ends period) gets a sub.

On top of that, this isn't a "hey you should have released this guy instead of that guy and blah blah blah"

Mattel kept telling us in Q&A's "hey, we plan on getting around to finishing teams, etc"Even if DC hadn't come in with this reboot, as they started approaching 15-16 waves, history has to say "hey, how much longer will this last, if we're going to finish those teams maybe sooner is better than later"

Then..after that, we get Lantern Deputy Wave and a half themed super powers wave. Should that have taken priority over finishing figures (when maybe at that point we didn't know a sub would exist). I don't know. That's just my .02.

As I've already stated, I hope everyone gets every figure they want. My bitching is exactly that, my bitching. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, but just something to think about.

fball13z wrote:

Bunger43 wrote:

My point (which you obviously don't seem to get much like I don't seem to be getting yours) is that some of the figures we are getting in the sub should have logically already been put out, and for whatever reason weren't. I hope day of sales for some of these figures are great, not sure they will be.

sorry dude but this point could be made for every single toy line that ended "too" early, there will always be people that say, hey you should have released this guy instead of that guy and blah blah

Well, it's pretty clear that Doomsday wasn't even an option for the sub due to all the tooling he'd require, so there goes that theory.

Huntress and Poison Ivy are in the same boat as one another. If the situation was reversed and Huntress was in the sub, people would be bellyaching that she was there and suggesting Poison Ivy be in it instead.

I'm inclined to believe that a character making her much-anticipated debut in the line would entice more buyers than a third Aquaman and second Kyle Rayner.

Bunger43 wrote:

My point (which you obviously don't seem to get much like I don't seem to be getting yours) is that some of the figures we are getting in the sub should have logically already been put out, and for whatever reason weren't.

And all of the suggestions that you just put forth above also should have logically been already put out. You could argue that so-and-so should've already been put out for tons of characters. I'm still not seeing your point.

Bunger43 wrote:

And like I said...you have a batman themed line at retail, don't waste two spots in the sub with batman themed characters. (I'd argue not to put huntress too, but since we're talking)

I have a feeling we won't be seeing many Batman characters next year because, again, Poison Ivy was tossed in, as one of the most requested in the line, in an effort to spike sales. Something that a '90s Kyle Rayner wouldn't have done as well. Sure, people want one, but they already have a Kyle.

I don't disagree, except that not every toy line that ends early (or ends period) gets a sub.

On top of that, this isn't a "hey you should have released this guy instead of that guy and blah blah blah"

Mattel kept telling us in Q&A's "hey, we plan on getting around to finishing teams, etc"Even if DC hadn't come in with this reboot, as they started approaching 15-16 waves, history has to say "hey, how much longer will this last, if we're going to finish those teams maybe sooner is better than later"

first of all, a line ending at wave 20 is not really early lol, most toy lines do not last 3+ years

second, all toy lines end, they maybe come back in some form or another, they may get rebooted or changed, but every toy line will end

third, yes mattel planned and wanted to finish teams, but things change, I never for once thought every single team would be finished and some people have different ideas on what "finished" is. Most teams are not cut and dry 5 or 6 man groups.

Every toyline will go down having figures that "should" have been made, its the nature of this hobby.

We weren't told no to Doomsday until way after. I don't recall as we signed up for the sub that they said "oh, and btw, we won't be doing figure that require a lot of tooling"...they threw that at us here within the last few months. Hindsight being 20/20. And maybe you're right about hook Aquaman and the Kyle Rayner that everyone has practically been begging for.

MoMoney wrote:

Well, it's pretty clear that Doomsday wasn't even an option for the sub due to all the tooling he'd require, so there goes that theory.

Huntress and Poison Ivy are in the same boat as one another. If the situation was reversed and Huntress was in the sub, people would be bellyaching that she was there and suggesting Poison Ivy be in it instead.

I'm inclined to believe that a character making her much-anticipated debut in the line would entice more buyers than a third Aquaman and second Kyle Rayner.

Quote:

And all of the suggestions that you just put forth above also should have logically been already put out. You could argue that so-and-so should've already been put out for tons of characters. I'm still not seeing your point.

See my reply above to fball

Quote:

I have a feeling we won't be seeing many Batman characters next year because, again, Poison Ivy was tossed in, as one of the most requested in the line, in an effort to spike sales. Something that a '90s Kyle Rayner wouldn't have done as well. Sure, people want one, but they already have a Kyle.

Don't get me wrong either, I don't mind getting Superm/Batman figures in the sub. It just doesn't seem like the place for them when we have a themed wave at retail for them. If the Batman Legacy Line is done (which I think it is) then I don't mind seeing them in the sub. I just don't want to see a lot of them right now.

What does any of that have to do with what I said? I wasn't implying that it was early. My reference to "early" was implied to mean "earlier than intended" Sorry if you didn't comprehend what I was saying. As a matter of fact, what you just said below is what I was pointing out: Logic should say if they got as far as they did, MAYBE they should focus on getting out the characters they said they would. Unless they've not told us, I'm not sure the sub was an option at that point.

fball13z wrote:

first of all, a line ending at wave 20 is not really early lol, most toy lines do not last 3+ years

second, all toy lines end, they maybe come back in some form or another, they may get rebooted or changed, but every toy line will end

third, yes mattel planned and wanted to finish teams, but things change, I never for once thought every single team would be finished and some people have different ideas on what "finished" is. Most teams are not cut and dry 5 or 6 man groups.

Every toyline will go down having figures that "should" have been made, its the nature of this hobby.