aage wrote:If we do have a coroner, I think he's being a complete dick atm for leaving us in the dark. Since I don't think any of you are dicks, the ability is probably mafia-aligned.

Also, IB, you and aage I THINK are agreeing with each other. Might be mistaken, but I think its just a communication issue and he is saying the janitor is scum (that there is a janitor I have issues with)

And back at aage, I think it could be a good idea for a coroner to keep his mouth shut for a bit unless there was actually useful info.

jonty125 wrote:I don't think we have a coroner, just because I haven't seen it on CC before but I could be wrong.

If we did have a coroner, I can't see them claiming unless someone lied about their role, so that we don't lynch the counter-claim.

I was going to call you out on this, but I could find any coroners anywhere either I could have sworn there was a few back a few months, but I cant find any... sometimes they are called other shit too, like forensic investigators and the like.

Ah yes, dexter had one as a fake, Joint Terror had one claimed as well, but the game was canned.

aage wrote:If we do have a coroner, I think he's being a complete dick atm for leaving us in the dark. Since I don't think any of you are dicks, the ability is probably mafia-aligned.

Did you even read your link about a janitor and my link on coroner? If a janitor is in game, which I suspect, then having a mafia coroner would be impossible. The roles are made to counteract each other.

If mafia do have a janitor it would be in their best interest to convince Town otherwise, which seems to be the case with yourself.

Your argument is highly suspect aage and down right scummy.

You seem to assume that the flip-blocking role must be a coroner and that it must be town.

Secondly, I just argued that the mafia probably does have that ability so your second line is simply wrong.

aage wrote:If we do have a coroner, I think he's being a complete dick atm for leaving us in the dark. Since I don't think any of you are dicks, the ability is probably mafia-aligned.

Would you really oust yourself over a VT claim though, assuming Neb is who he said he was?

No. Therefore Neb probably is who he said he was, and that gives credibility to Doom's case on superkeener. This is what Jonty said. I agree it may have been easier if I had just posted "[ quote ] +1", but I decided to add my reasoning..

safariguy5 wrote:That said, I'm not following Doom's logic here. There were votes for neb after superkeener as well, I don't see what makes superkeener special. Especially odd is that with Neb's role hidden, we don't actually know if he was VT or not, so Doom's case still operates on unknown data.

The people who voted for Neb "after" superkeener were Doomyoshi and yourself. Doomyoshi's point is that superkeener is the only person who seems to have believed Neb's claim and then voted for him because of it. Both you and Doom have claimed that your votes were based on not believing Neb's claim, while superkeener was going to lynch Neb so that he could replace Shape.

Now, my question after that is this action a sign that superkeener is scum? Yes, he lynched a player that he thought to be town, which is bad on principle, but does it mean he is scum or was it just a poor play? There are enough mitigating factors that the later is certainly possible.Superkeener could possibly have seen Neb's lynch as inevitable at that point and thought having him lynched and replace Shape would move the game forward. Neb claimed a VT and several people expressed the sentiment that hitting a VT one Day 1 was an acceptable risk. If he wasn't considering the implications of his action he might (almost reasonably) have thought that going forward with the lynch at that point (where if Neb was scum then great, and if not then he just replaces Shape and we are out 1 VT) was perfectly reasonable. The implication that he was lynching someone he may have thought to be town isn't so obvious that he couldn't have overlooked it.More importantly note the single post in between Neb proposing he be just be lynched and replace Shape and superkeeners vote:

DoomYoshi wrote:vote neb

DoomYoshi, an experienced player placing a vote without any reason attached. From the context at the time the most likely conclusion that one would draw is that DoomYoshi was supporting Neb's replacement proposal, so it only makes sense that superkeener might find doing the same to be an appropriate course of action. So, it looks like DoomYoshi may have been a significant cause of superkeener's action.That puts DoomYoshi's current case on superkeener in a disturbing new light. Is an inexperienced player doing a potentially (but not obviously) scummy thing that you effectively baited him into by appearing to do the same thing yourself good grounds for a case? FOS DoomYoshi, this isn't the only time you have taken an action this game with no explanation only for you to later claim that it wasn't the thing that would be most obvious from the context, and I don't like it.

For me to be baiting, i would have to know keener would fall for the trap... That is an outrageous accusation. And I presented my case earlier on day 1 and said multiple times I was going to vote neb. I decided that enough conversation occured. Don't skim day 1.

And yes, it has occured to me that it could just mean keener is a poor player. However, considering my vote is the only vote today, I would say that it is the best case we have. And really since when is "vote x for being town" not a lynch worthy crime?

DoomYoshi wrote:FOS pcm for assuming a hammer case, when I didn't make one.

My question has nothing to do with hammering. It seems to me you're dodging and it's not ok. I'm saying that during that timeframe anyone could have unvoted him (including you) and no one did. So again, I ask you: why is superkeener the one getting the vote.

DoomYoshi wrote:For me to be baiting, i would have to know keener would fall for the trap... That is an outrageous accusation.And I presented my case earlier on day 1 and said multiple times I was going to vote neb. I decided that enough conversation occured. Don't skim day 1.

And yes, it has occured to me that it could just mean keener is a poor player. However, considering my vote is the only vote today, I would say that it is the best case we have. And really since when is "vote x for being town" not a lynch worthy crime?

I don't think you'd have to say keener specifically was going to bite. Anyone could have. You could set out to hook a salmon, but hook a trout or a tuna instead.

So you're saying you voted him knowing, by your logic, that he was a VT? Doesn't that strike you as a bit absurd?

I'd have to agree on principle, seeing as it is the only case that exists. That doesn't make it a good one. I could plug my guitar into a banana but that doesn't mean the banana will make sound.

And yes, it has occured to me that it could just mean keener is a poor player. However, considering my vote is the only vote today, I would say that it is the best case we have. And really since when is "vote x for being town" not a lynch worthy crime?

I'd have to agree on principle, seeing as it is the only case that exists. That doesn't make it a good one. I could plug my guitar into a banana but that doesn't mean the banana will make sound.

Just confirming here...Initial feel is that Doom is really being hypocritical here. Says he wants to lay low, then brings up a high profile risk case. FoS Doom. Superkeener, has in Meta from Holiday Mafia, a general noobieness on how forum mafia is played differently from RL... That being said, I don't think he's scum, just generally new and floundering right about now. Even so, where is he? I haven't really seen him present a defense for himself since Doom brought it up sooo, FoS Keener for scummarining.

aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.

DoomYoshi wrote:FOS pcm for assuming a hammer case, when I didn't make one.

My question has nothing to do with hammering. It seems to me you're dodging and it's not ok. I'm saying that during that timeframe anyone could have unvoted him (including you) and no one did. So again, I ask you: why is superkeener the one getting the vote.

Okay, I'll bite.

You're misparaphrasing the situation. Superkeener was the one who probably believed Neb to be town. Doom didn't. He presented a case about why Neb should be lynched. Diverting an L-2 wagon because someone else was scummy too is unnecessary, and it only makes sense that Doom opened this day with his current vote.

Superkeener didn't agree with Doom's case on Neb, however, since he posted that there were no convincing arguments. The primary reason for his vote concerned Neb's replacing. Since mafia members can't replace any other roles, he cannot have thought Neb to be mafia. Logically, he must have thought him to be the VT he claimed to be, and why would you vote someone you think is a VT? It's anti-town. Theoretically, the case is actually pretty strong.

Sorry for the delay.Ok, just read D2 and I would like to comment on a few things.First off, I am "new" to forum mafia, but I would not like to be held against me as I am learning the games/different roles/ etc... I think I have a better grasp on the game now better than I had in the Holiday mafia. With that being said, this game is very confusing for me, but I think most of us are somewhat lost with the mechanics of this game.

Ok. To comment on my D1 neb vote issue.When neb said this "Lynch me. I'll take shape's place." That just rubbed me the wrong way. So I was confident in voting for him, and actually I still think it was a good idea. We still don't know for sure his alignment and I am interested to see when or if it will be revealed before the game's end.

On to the Doom topic.Was his vote for me a subtle claim? We don't know what roles or actions are being performed during the night, but I do not see how any role would set off his red flag. I think perhaps Doom is jumping on my "loose" wording about my neb vote and the fact that I am new to try and start some bandwagon. I feel this "claim" or whatever you want to call it, is not based on anything substantial and to me it looks like he is fishing.I am not trying to come off as vindictive here, but I believe Doom to not be associated with the town, this is purely based on my gut reading of his posts. I believe a vote on Doom is warranted.

aage wrote:You're misparaphrasing the situation. Superkeener was the one who probably believed Neb to be town. Doom didn't. He presented a case about why Neb should be lynched. Diverting an L-2 wagon because someone else was scummy too is unnecessary, and it only makes sense that Doom opened this day with his current vote.

Superkeener didn't agree with Doom's case on Neb, however, since he posted that there were no convincing arguments. The primary reason for his vote concerned Neb's replacing. Since mafia members can't replace any other roles, he cannot have thought Neb to be mafia. Logically, he must have thought him to be the VT he claimed to be, and why would you vote someone you think is a VT? It's anti-town. Theoretically, the case is actually pretty strong.

Waiting for superkeener's follow-up explanation post.

Here is why I think people believe I thought neb was town:

superkeener wrote:I see no reason why a neb lynch shouldn't happen. With that being said, I don't think it is necessarily our best option. And before you ask me who is a better option, at this point, I have no idea.

superkeener wrote:Ok. To comment on my D1 neb vote issue.When neb said this "Lynch me. I'll take shape's place." That just rubbed me the wrong way. So I was confident in voting for him, and actually I still think it was a good idea. We still don't know for sure his alignment and I am interested to see when or if it will be revealed before the game's end.

superkeener wrote:Ok. To comment on my D1 neb vote issue.When neb said this "Lynch me. I'll take shape's place." That just rubbed me the wrong way. So I was confident in voting for him, and actually I still think it was a good idea. We still don't know for sure his alignment and I am interested to see when or if it will be revealed before the game's end.

superkeener wrote:Ok. To comment on my D1 neb vote issue.When neb said this "Lynch me. I'll take shape's place." That just rubbed me the wrong way. So I was confident in voting for him, and actually I still think it was a good idea. We still don't know for sure his alignment and I am interested to see when or if it will be revealed before the game's end.

So you think he was bluffing?

My 2 cents - I don't think he was.

Neither do I, that's why I ask. Keener doesn't explain except for "I had a hunch" which is just a bad formulation of "I didn't believe him".