FLWSkin wrote:I go by the eye test. Banks dances and does nothing. The other guys run straight ahead and get some yards. Kinda simple.

I will agree to a point, he has been playing Randel El a bit much, he used to catch and get upfield, not sure why he has changed, if he doesn't do better with the remaining games I see him gone next year........

The Hogster wrote:Right. But, of course folks who've never played the game will blame poor returns on the returner. Funny how the same people often bend over backwards to blame the blocking for Graham Gano's blocks/misses. But, if we can't get any positive returns, it's all Brandon's fault.

Completely fair and true point. But are people really complaining that Banks hasn't broken any long returns this year? I kind of thought the complaint was more about his decision making. Fielding some balls that he shouldn't have and costing us field position.

Personally I don't think Banks has been a stud this year, but he hasn't been horrible either. He isn't muffing his returns or fumbling, and he's contributed some to the offense as well. He's not a big concern to me.

The Hogster wrote:Right. But, of course folks who've never played the game will blame poor returns on the returner. Funny how the same people often bend over backwards to blame the blocking for Graham Gano's blocks/misses. But, if we can't get any positive returns, it's all Brandon's fault.

Redskins Coach Mike Shanahan said the minimal returns aren’t entirely Banks’s fault. Instead, the coach says, there are a number of other factors to take into account. “It all depends on the punts and the coverage,”

Let's just be real. Ever since Banks got stabbed, people started treating him like a thug. There's no real basis for all of this hate every offseason and whenever he hasn't scored. If we had better options, he'd be gone. Period. Shanahan has proven that.

If there is no blocking (which I am willing to concede) then why bring it out from 5+ yards deep?

Why all the fumbles?

Funny how the same people who bend over backwards for Banks have to be pounded over the head with stats showing we couldn't block for Gano.

I am asking Banks to:

Take touchbacks when he should.

Not let punts hit the ground.

I am asking Mike to try other guys since Banks has done these two things horrifically all season.

I'm not asking for great returns. I'm asking for basic competence. Great returns are an unrequired bonus.

Banks’ performance has come under scrutiny after he fielded a punt in the end zone against the Cowboys and got stopped at the Redskins’ seven-yard line.

“Brandon knows that he has to be smarter in the decision making,” Shanahan said after practice. “If he makes too many mistakes like that, then he’s not back there. We’re looking for some improvement, and hopefully it happens Monday night."

Banks enters Monday’s pivotal matchup against the Giants as the 23rd ranked kick off returner, averaging 24.1 yards per return. On punts, he’s 24th, averaging 6.8 yards per. Banks has taken only two punt returns for more than 20 yards, a year after posting eight returns of at least 20 yards. His lone return for a touchdown came on a kickoff during the 2010 season.

“We want more production obviously,” Shanahan said. “We’re ranked where we’re ranked. You want to get better and that’s what we’re working on. It’s a collective group, just not one guy. We’re working on improving that area.”

Shanahan was careful not to place all the blame on Banks for the lack of production in the return game. But he also did not mince words.

“You only get so many chances and if you don’t take advantage of those chances,” Shanahan said, “then you’re not playing.”

(in this response I'm not talking about the punt he fielded in the end zone – that was inexcusable!)

I think the culprit behind Banks taking so many balls out of the end zone is the same guy that had Gano screwing around with high short and coffin corner kicks when he obviously wasn’t very good at either and that guy is Danny Smith.

I have no proof of that, but it makes sense since Banks keeps doing it and if Danny wasn’t good with it he would either tell Banks to stop or replace him if he didn’t! So it has to be Danny calling the shot. The only thing that confuses me is why MS hasn’t told Danny to fix the problem. And based on your quote it looks like MS has hit his tipping point. Kind of like he did last offseason with the short/high and coffin corner kick offs when he told Danny (and the media) that they were just going to try to get touchbacks.

I’m so tired of Danny Smith. I want him gone! I wanted him gone before they hired Shanny. I think Danny has been living off of a reputation that he really hasn’t deserved for years. I blame the blocking problems on Kicks last year, on punts this year, and on Punt and Kick returns for the past two years on Danny.

Maybe, MS has cut some players that Danny thought would help the team with the blocking problems but MS needed to keep better positional players and MS is cutting Danny some slack because he has short handed him. Of course that is just a WAG; Danny could just have compromising pictures of Snyder and the “Big” Danny won’t let MS fire the “little” Danny. I don’t care what the reason is; I just want us to actually become a respectable team on ST when it comes to blocking, because right now we certainly aren’t!

"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

I think 33 is onto something. This was published on Hogs Haven recently touching on this very topic.

Danny Smith, the longest tenured Redskins coach, may or may not be phasing Paul into the return game, but he also might want to take a broader view at his system in order to improve the team's average starting field position.

Here is the list of either type of returners which have been top 10 in the NFL during Smith's special teams coaching career in Washington: 1.) Brandon Banks 9th in PRs in 2010, 2.) Rock Cartwright 8th in KR in 2007, and 3.) Ladell Betts 5th in KR in 2005. That's it. That's the list.

For those keeping track at home, that means that in 8 and 3/4 seasons one of Smith's returners have been among the league's best only 3 times. Remember, he gets a crack at each category every season. Do whatever math you want to do with those numbers - it won't come out well.

I think 33 is onto something. This was published on Hogs Haven recently touching on this very topic.

Danny Smith, the longest tenured Redskins coach, may or may not be phasing Paul into the return game, but he also might want to take a broader view at his system in order to improve the team's average starting field position.

Here is the list of either type of returners which have been top 10 in the NFL during Smith's special teams coaching career in Washington: 1.) Brandon Banks 9th in PRs in 2010, 2.) Rock Cartwright 8th in KR in 2007, and 3.) Ladell Betts 5th in KR in 2005. That's it. That's the list.

For those keeping track at home, that means that in 8 and 3/4 seasons one of Smith's returners have been among the league's best only 3 times. Remember, he gets a crack at each category every season. Do whatever math you want to do with those numbers - it won't come out well.

Brandon Banks has shown what he can do. He's a returner not a magician. I am still confident that he will break a couple before the year is over. That will not only improve his averages drastically. But, it will show people why Mike S has kept him here.

Last edited by The Hogster on Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

(in this response I'm not talking about the punt he fielded in the end zone – that was inexcusable!)

I think the culprit behind Banks taking so many balls out of the end zone is the same guy that had Gano screwing around with high short and coffin corner kicks when he obviously wasn’t very good at either and that guy is Danny Smith.

I have no proof of that, but it makes sense since Banks keeps doing it and if Danny wasn’t good with it he would either tell Banks to stop or replace him if he didn’t! So it has to be Danny calling the shot. The only thing that confuses me is why MS hasn’t told Danny to fix the problem. And based on your quote it looks like MS has hit his tipping point. Kind of like he did last offseason with the short/high and coffin corner kick offs when he told Danny (and the media) that they were just going to try to get touchbacks.

I’m so tired of Danny Smith. I want him gone! I wanted him gone before they hired Shanny. I think Danny has been living off of a reputation that he really hasn’t deserved for years. I blame the blocking problems on Kicks last year, on punts this year, and on Punt and Kick returns for the past two years on Danny.

Maybe, MS has cut some players that Danny thought would help the team with the blocking problems but MS needed to keep better positional players and MS is cutting Danny some slack because he has short handed him. Of course that is just a WAG; Danny could just have compromising pictures of Snyder and the “Big” Danny won’t let MS fire the “little” Danny. I don’t care what the reason is; I just want us to actually become a respectable team on ST when it comes to blocking, because right now we certainly aren’t!

Or perhaps he just needs to come up with something that works better....

(in this response I'm not talking about the punt he fielded in the end zone – that was inexcusable!)

I think the culprit behind Banks taking so many balls out of the end zone is the same guy that had Gano screwing around with high short and coffin corner kicks when he obviously wasn’t very good at either and that guy is Danny Smith.

I have no proof of that, but it makes sense since Banks keeps doing it and if Danny wasn’t good with it he would either tell Banks to stop or replace him if he didn’t! So it has to be Danny calling the shot. The only thing that confuses me is why MS hasn’t told Danny to fix the problem. And based on your quote it looks like MS has hit his tipping point. Kind of like he did last offseason with the short/high and coffin corner kick offs when he told Danny (and the media) that they were just going to try to get touchbacks.

I’m so tired of Danny Smith. I want him gone! I wanted him gone before they hired Shanny. I think Danny has been living off of a reputation that he really hasn’t deserved for years. I blame the blocking problems on Kicks last year, on punts this year, and on Punt and Kick returns for the past two years on Danny.

Maybe, MS has cut some players that Danny thought would help the team with the blocking problems but MS needed to keep better positional players and MS is cutting Danny some slack because he has short handed him. Of course that is just a WAG; Danny could just have compromising pictures of Snyder and the “Big” Danny won’t let MS fire the “little” Danny. I don’t care what the reason is; I just want us to actually become a respectable team on ST when it comes to blocking, because right now we certainly aren’t!

I have thought that Danny Smith has needed to be fired for a while, hopefully he will be let go after this season along with a couple others on this coaching staff...............

(in this response I'm not talking about the punt he fielded in the end zone – that was inexcusable!)

I think the culprit behind Banks taking so many balls out of the end zone is the same guy that had Gano screwing around with high short and coffin corner kicks when he obviously wasn’t very good at either and that guy is Danny Smith.

I have no proof of that, but it makes sense since Banks keeps doing it and if Danny wasn’t good with it he would either tell Banks to stop or replace him if he didn’t! So it has to be Danny calling the shot. The only thing that confuses me is why MS hasn’t told Danny to fix the problem. And based on your quote it looks like MS has hit his tipping point. Kind of like he did last offseason with the short/high and coffin corner kick offs when he told Danny (and the media) that they were just going to try to get touchbacks.

I’m so tired of Danny Smith. I want him gone! I wanted him gone before they hired Shanny. I think Danny has been living off of a reputation that he really hasn’t deserved for years. I blame the blocking problems on Kicks last year, on punts this year, and on Punt and Kick returns for the past two years on Danny.

Maybe, MS has cut some players that Danny thought would help the team with the blocking problems but MS needed to keep better positional players and MS is cutting Danny some slack because he has short handed him. Of course that is just a WAG; Danny could just have compromising pictures of Snyder and the “Big” Danny won’t let MS fire the “little” Danny. I don’t care what the reason is; I just want us to actually become a respectable team on ST when it comes to blocking, because right now we certainly aren’t!

Some sense is being made here. We seem to cover kicks well but we can't seem to block for them.

The Hogs Haven article really makes it hard to support Danny. One statistic was that over half the the NFL went without a punt blocked. The Skins opened the year with one blocked two weeks in a row. That's just inexcusable.

The inconsistency in the return game over several returners points to one thing. Preparation. Banks' speed is a fact. His vision is a fact. What he's done with small creases is a fact. We can't keep replacing the returner thinking that will magically result in better production.

The Hogster wrote:The Hogs Haven article really makes it hard to support Danny. One statistic was that over half the the NFL went without a punt blocked. The Skins opened the year with one blocked two weeks in a row. That's just inexcusable.

The inconsistency in the return game over several returners points to one thing. Preparation. Banks' speed is a fact. His vision is a fact. What he's done with small creases is a fact. We can't keep replacing the returner thinking that will magically result in better production.

We also cannot ignore the facts of fumbling (once every 3 games) and the horrible decisions in the endzone. I do not believe in magic. I concede the facts you mention. I insist on the ones I mention. I hope he has a good game Sunday. If I see him suck (again) I'll point it out.

I also hope that he makes great plays wherever he's playing next year - if he gets a chance to play with another franchise

I'm pretty sure he will NOT be returning kicks here

thanks for the memories - time to move on

P A T I E N C E - Scot & Jay's goal here is to make this franchise better - it will take time they understand the need to change to primarily building through the draft - plus have some luck go their way

Do not confuse my disillusionment with Banks with any love for Danny Smith... frankly, I believe that he is responsible for messing up Banks head, and converting him to a smaller, faster, Randall-El. Banks is, I believe, ruined. I lay that at Danny Smith's feet... but the bottom line is, Banks is not perfoming. Potential is not field position... and he's not getting it done.

Countertrey wrote:Do not confuse my disillusionment with Banks with any love for Danny Smith... frankly, I believe that he is responsible for messing up Banks head, and converting him to a smaller, faster, Randall-El. Banks is, I believe, ruined. I lay that at Danny Smith's feet... but the bottom line is, Banks is not perfoming. Potential is not field position... and he's not getting it done.

Sounds like revisionist history. You have truely forgotten how bad ARE was. Go back at look at his time with the Skins. I believe his best year with three Skins is about what Banks is doing now (Bank's worst season). Then look at ARE as a PR on Pburge and compare it to his time under Smith. Striking diferense!

"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

I'll agree with Coutertrey - I'm not sure where the problem is with our Special Teams in all facets of the kicking game but ...

Danny Smith is one of a few coaching changes we will see here soon

Brandon Banks will NOT be on the roster next season

it's just time to move on

players and coaches sometimes just need to go to other franchises in order to do what they do better

Andy Reid is not a bad HC - he's probably still one of the best, it's time to move on

Brandon Banks might still be a good kick returner - he's just not going to be doing that here

Danny Smith may still be one of the best ST coordinators - it's time to make a change

fans often look at players and coaches having success after leaving and think that they should never have been let go ...

the problem is that players and coaches sometimes need a different environment in order to do well

for a number of Redskins players and coaches here - the time has come to look elsewhere

P A T I E N C E - Scot & Jay's goal here is to make this franchise better - it will take time they understand the need to change to primarily building through the draft - plus have some luck go their way