paizo.com Recent Posts in Will we see Class related books?paizo.com Recent Posts in Will we see Class related books?2012-01-08T01:57:39Z2012-01-08T01:57:39ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?gboneheadhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1492012-01-17T22:13:48Z2012-01-17T22:13:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Darkwing Duck wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">TriOmegaZero wrote:</div><blockquote> No, they are already opened wide enough to allow all rules by Paizo. </blockquote>There's a big difference between all <i>current</i> rules by Paizo and all rules by Paizo (to include future rules). The latter opens the rule base further. </blockquote><p>Ashiel, is that you? :-)
<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>"This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!"</span></p>
<p>(And thank you TOZ, been a busy couple days)</p>Darkwing Duck wrote:TriOmegaZero wrote: No, they are already opened wide enough to allow all rules by Paizo.
There's a big difference between all current rules by Paizo and all rules by Paizo (to include future rules). The latter opens the rule base further. Ashiel, is that you? :-) "This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!"
(And thank you TOZ, been a busy couple days)gbonehead2012-01-17T22:13:48ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Darkwing Duckhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1482012-01-16T23:14:47Z2012-01-16T23:14:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TriOmegaZero wrote:</div><blockquote> No, they are already opened wide enough to allow all rules by Paizo. </blockquote><p>There's a big difference between all <i>current</i> rules by Paizo and all rules by Paizo (to include future rules). The latter opens the rule base further.TriOmegaZero wrote:No, they are already opened wide enough to allow all rules by Paizo.
There's a big difference between all current rules by Paizo and all rules by Paizo (to include future rules). The latter opens the rule base further.Darkwing Duck2012-01-16T23:14:47ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Chernobylhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1472012-01-16T20:50:19Z2012-01-16T20:50:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sean Mahoney wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Chernobyl wrote:</div><blockquote>Thank you very much. I don't want to keep up with a bunch of 4E style splat books.</blockquote><p>I can't say that I understand this point of view. People can choose not to buy the rules books and only buy the products that they like. People can NOT choose to buy books that are not made. So the guy who wants more rules is out of luck if they stop making them, but if they keep making them then the guy who doesn't want them is in the exact same place... just don't buy them.
<p>I know, I know... the point has been made before, but it really feels like someone saying that people who want more rules are having 'badwrongfun' and should not like it in the first place.</p>
<p>All that said, the reality is that it takes people to write books. If they are not writing rule books then they (presumably) would be working on more fluff content. But the thing is that it really depends on what is making money. If the fluff books don't sell as well (for example, all the people playing in their own world could care less about Golarion fluff, but can potentially use rules), then there isn't enough money to keep as many writers on, resulting in just less output rather than more people working on what you want. Conversely, if the rules are selling well then you have more money to put out the fluff books so you end up with more than you would have otherwise.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Chernobyl wrote:</div><blockquote>What I'd like to see less are books like the monster revisited books, save them for the Bestiaries. the faith books, and the inner sea magic books as well aren't needed in my opinion. I'd much rather see less rules and more fluff.</blockquote><p>This I don't get either. The monster revisited books are all about adding the fluff and interest to the monsters. They are not more crunch. If you want fluff why ax these? If it is the beastiaries alone the monsters are closer to just stat blocks than fleshed out interesting creatures.
<p>Same with the faith books. They make the gods into more than just a list of favored weapon and domains to choose from... </blockquote><p>My opinions are coming from an organized play perspective. I played AD&amp;D back in the day but got back into it under 3.5's "Living Greyhawk". I played LFR for a while after the switch, but with splat book after splat book coming out, which were all allowed in organized play, meant as a judge you needed to keep up with all this material so you could understand what your players were doing. I got tired of it and dropped out, among other reasons.
</p>
rule after rule addition are not always not playtested well. Spells or feats can come out unintentionally overpowered when used in combination. which makes it harder to run games with an appropriate challenge to the players.
<br />
regarding the monster revisited books, I don't need a 30 page book describing the background of maybe 5 or so monsters and variations. the 1 page entry in a bestairy is fine. the religion books are a mixed bag. I appreciate the information regarding the various golarion deities, but I think it really could have been either combined into one book, or have been added to the Inner Sea World Guide (which was an awesome book!)</p>Sean Mahoney wrote:Chernobyl wrote:Thank you very much. I don't want to keep up with a bunch of 4E style splat books.
I can't say that I understand this point of view. People can choose not to buy the rules books and only buy the products that they like. People can NOT choose to buy books that are not made. So the guy who wants more rules is out of luck if they stop making them, but if they keep making them then the guy who doesn't want them is in the exact same place... just don't buy them....Chernobyl2012-01-16T20:50:19ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?TriOmegaZerohttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1462012-01-16T20:40:59Z2012-01-16T20:40:59Z<p>No, they are already opened wide enough to allow all rules by Paizo.</p>No, they are already opened wide enough to allow all rules by Paizo.TriOmegaZero2012-01-16T20:40:59ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Darkwing Duckhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1452012-01-16T20:36:19Z2012-01-16T20:36:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TriOmegaZero wrote:</div><blockquote> The floodgates are set to 'Paizo only'. To open them wider would be to allow other publishers. </blockquote><p>To open them wider would be to <i>either</i>
</p>
a.) allow other publishers
<br />
and/or
<br />
b.) allow new rules by Paizo</p>TriOmegaZero wrote:The floodgates are set to 'Paizo only'. To open them wider would be to allow other publishers.
To open them wider would be to either
a.) allow other publishers
and/or
b.) allow new rules by PaizoDarkwing Duck2012-01-16T20:36:19ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Sean Mahoneyhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1442012-01-16T20:22:10Z2012-01-16T20:22:10Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Chernobyl wrote:</div><blockquote>Thank you very much. I don't want to keep up with a bunch of 4E style splat books.</blockquote><p>I can't say that I understand this point of view. People can choose not to buy the rules books and only buy the products that they like. People can NOT choose to buy books that are not made. So the guy who wants more rules is out of luck if they stop making them, but if they keep making them then the guy who doesn't want them is in the exact same place... just don't buy them.
<p>I know, I know... the point has been made before, but it really feels like someone saying that people who want more rules are having 'badwrongfun' and should not like it in the first place.</p>
<p>All that said, the reality is that it takes people to write books. If they are not writing rule books then they (presumably) would be working on more fluff content. But the thing is that it really depends on what is making money. If the fluff books don't sell as well (for example, all the people playing in their own world could care less about Golarion fluff, but can potentially use rules), then there isn't enough money to keep as many writers on, resulting in just less output rather than more people working on what you want. Conversely, if the rules are selling well then you have more money to put out the fluff books so you end up with more than you would have otherwise.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Chernobyl wrote:</div><blockquote>What I'd like to see less are books like the monster revisited books, save them for the Bestiaries. the faith books, and the inner sea magic books as well aren't needed in my opinion. I'd much rather see less rules and more fluff.</blockquote><p>This I don't get either. The monster revisited books are all about adding the fluff and interest to the monsters. They are not more crunch. If you want fluff why ax these? If it is the beastiaries alone the monsters are closer to just stat blocks than fleshed out interesting creatures.
<p>Same with the faith books. They make the gods into more than just a list of favored weapon and domains to choose from with a little fluff that describes them. Instead we learn about the church, aphorisms, etc., etc.</p>
<p>It just seems inconsistent with the request for more fluff and less rules. If I were a designer I would have no idea what you wanted. </p>
<p>Finally, we all vote with our pocket books and Paizo has no real choice but to listen to that vote. If the fluff stuff sells well, they will make more. If the crunch stuff sells well, they SHOULD make more. If they make fluff books with little bits of crunch thrown in and think that will make all the people who liked the APG, UC, and UM happy... I think they are in for a surprise... most of those people will see it as the part of the game they like is not being supported. If only there were a new game on the horizon promising the moon and that it would support their style of play... hrmm...</p>
<p>I don't think Paizo and Pathfinder are in any real danger from 5E (or whatever they deign to call it), as long as they keep doing what they have been doing (supporting people who want rules, adventures, and pure setting description in seperate products so people can pick and choose). If they decide there is enough support for those rules monkeys and just leave them be then they are saying, "We have enough of your gaming dollars, please spend them elsewhere." I think Paizo is smarter than that. But James' post kind of scares me a little there. </p>
<p>If nothing else, I would love to see a yearly product that comes out and compiles all those little rules bits found in various other products into one place for much easier use. Yeah, yeah, there is d20pfsrd... it doesn't help most of the time when I am sitting at a gaming table. Not to mention it is tough to just sit down and see the new stuff. </p>
<p>Think about it. I am a GM. I do NOT want my players buying all the adventure paths, but if that is where new feats, spells, etc. are going to be then it is encouraging them to do so. Is that really what GMs want? Sure Paizo would love it if everyone bought all their products equally, but I don't think they are counting on that to happen just because "there are enough class options out there now."</p>
<p>Anyway... I for one would be disappointed if we didn't continue to see rules heavy books. I LOVE the adventure paths... but that is not ALL I enjoy. </p>
<p>Sean Mahoney</p>Chernobyl wrote:Thank you very much. I don't want to keep up with a bunch of 4E style splat books.
I can't say that I understand this point of view. People can choose not to buy the rules books and only buy the products that they like. People can NOT choose to buy books that are not made. So the guy who wants more rules is out of luck if they stop making them, but if they keep making them then the guy who doesn't want them is in the exact same place... just don't buy them. I know, I know......Sean Mahoney2012-01-16T20:22:10ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?TriOmegaZerohttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1432012-01-16T19:30:48Z2012-01-16T19:30:48Z<p>The floodgates are set to 'Paizo only'. To open them wider would be to allow other publishers.</p>The floodgates are set to 'Paizo only'. To open them wider would be to allow other publishers.TriOmegaZero2012-01-16T19:30:48ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Darkwing Duckhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1422012-01-16T19:04:52Z2012-01-16T19:04:52Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TriOmegaZero wrote:</div><blockquote><p> But if Paizo puts out epic rules, it's not opening the floodgate wider than 'Paizo only'. If Rite Publishing put out epic rules, he would have to open the floodgate to 'Paizo only, and Rite Publishing's Epic Rules'.</p>
<p>No contradiction there. </blockquote><p>He said that he wasn't willing to open the floodgate for rules any wider than they already are".
<p>That's not the same thing as saying that he isn't willing to open the floodgates for rule publishers any wider than they already are.</p>TriOmegaZero wrote:But if Paizo puts out epic rules, it's not opening the floodgate wider than 'Paizo only'. If Rite Publishing put out epic rules, he would have to open the floodgate to 'Paizo only, and Rite Publishing's Epic Rules'.
No contradiction there.
He said that he wasn't willing to open the floodgate for rules any wider than they already are". That's not the same thing as saying that he isn't willing to open the floodgates for rule publishers any wider than they already are.Darkwing Duck2012-01-16T19:04:52ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?TriOmegaZerohttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1412012-01-16T18:49:38Z2012-01-16T18:49:38Z<p>But if Paizo puts out epic rules, it's not opening the floodgate wider than 'Paizo only'. If Rite Publishing put out epic rules, he would have to open the floodgate to 'Paizo only, and Rite Publishing's Epic Rules'.</p>
<p>No contradiction there.</p>But if Paizo puts out epic rules, it's not opening the floodgate wider than 'Paizo only'. If Rite Publishing put out epic rules, he would have to open the floodgate to 'Paizo only, and Rite Publishing's Epic Rules'.
No contradiction there.TriOmegaZero2012-01-16T18:49:38ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Darkwing Duckhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1402012-01-16T10:56:39Z2012-01-16T10:56:39Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">gbonehead wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Yeah, I think so.</p>
<p>I'm just not willing to open the floodgates for rules any wider than they're already open; Paizo publishes an ungodly amount of material as it is. </blockquote><p>That's inconsistent. If you're "just not willing to open the floodgates for rules any wider than they already are" and adding epic rules would "open the floodgates wider than they already are", then you're contradicting yourself.gbonehead wrote:Yeah, I think so.
I'm just not willing to open the floodgates for rules any wider than they're already open; Paizo publishes an ungodly amount of material as it is.
That's inconsistent. If you're "just not willing to open the floodgates for rules any wider than they already are" and adding epic rules would "open the floodgates wider than they already are", then you're contradicting yourself.Darkwing Duck2012-01-16T10:56:39ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Chernobylhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1392012-01-16T04:46:03Z2012-01-16T04:46:03Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">James Jacobs wrote:</div><blockquote><p> The vast bulk of the class options in the rulebook line will remain the Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat. We have no plans of continuing to put out hardcover rulebooks in this exact theme—one of our goals was to get all the class option books out first so that we COULD support them in the following years. You'll certainly see new class options appear now and then, but the focus of rulebooks going forward will be on things other than character classes.</p>
<p>That said, we DO plan on continuing to support the base classes in our Player's Companion, Adventure Path, and Campaign Setting lines! </blockquote><p>Thank you very much. I don't want to keep up with a bunch of 4E style splat books. I love your adventures, and I love your regional and city guides. I think they expand and explore Golarion at a good pace. What I'd like to see less are books like the monster revisited books, save them for the Bestiaries. the faith books, and the inner sea magic books as well aren't needed in my opinion. I'd much rather see less rules and more fluff.
</p>
That being said, do what makes you money. In general I love your products, and you have great support for the game with the game mastery line.</p>James Jacobs wrote:The vast bulk of the class options in the rulebook line will remain the Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat. We have no plans of continuing to put out hardcover rulebooks in this exact theme—one of our goals was to get all the class option books out first so that we COULD support them in the following years. You'll certainly see new class options appear now and then, but the focus of rulebooks going forward will be on things other than character...Chernobyl2012-01-16T04:46:03ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Kthulhuhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1382012-01-16T04:17:01Z2012-01-15T08:41:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">DΗ wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
A quick check seems to have confirmed my suspicions.</p>
<p>Dreamscarred Press doesn't make APs. </blockquote><p><a href="http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonfly/Core/article/sid=93.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">O RLY ?</a>DΗ wrote:A quick check seems to have confirmed my suspicions.Dreamscarred Press doesn't make APs.
O RLY ?Kthulhu2012-01-15T08:41:56ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?gboneheadhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1372012-01-15T04:18:29Z2012-01-15T04:18:29Z<p>Yeah, I think so.</p>
<p>I'm just not willing to open the floodgates for rules any wider than they're already open; Paizo publishes an ungodly amount of material as it is.</p>Yeah, I think so.
I'm just not willing to open the floodgates for rules any wider than they're already open; Paizo publishes an ungodly amount of material as it is.gbonehead2012-01-15T04:18:29ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1362012-01-15T04:14:14Z2012-01-15T04:14:14Z<p>He thought you wanted psionics rules. Must have gotten you confused with someone else.</p>He thought you wanted psionics rules. Must have gotten you confused with someone else.TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)2012-01-15T04:14:14ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?gboneheadhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1352012-01-15T04:11:39Z2012-01-15T04:11:39Z<p>Who, me? I'm not sure when I said I wanted psionics. Anyone who pays any attention to my posts knows it's epic rules I want :)</p>
<p>All I've ever maintained is that "our table uses Paizo-only rules" is a valid stance. Darkwing seems determined to get me to admit that it's not a valid position for a GM to take, and I'm not sure why he's so obsessed with making sure 3PP rules are allowed at every GM's table.</p>Who, me? I'm not sure when I said I wanted psionics. Anyone who pays any attention to my posts knows it's epic rules I want :)
All I've ever maintained is that "our table uses Paizo-only rules" is a valid stance. Darkwing seems determined to get me to admit that it's not a valid position for a GM to take, and I'm not sure why he's so obsessed with making sure 3PP rules are allowed at every GM's table.gbonehead2012-01-15T04:11:39ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1342012-01-14T17:56:44Z2012-01-14T17:56:44Z<p>Yeah, limiting allowed material to 'only official Paizo material' makes sense as an easy way to explain it to players, but refusing to allow material that you <i>want</i> to allow seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.</p>
<p>It's not like all Paizo material is good, so while easy to use, a 'Paizo only' stance isn't a good metric for well-written stuff. Nor is it a good metric for fun, since you have already stated that it is preventing you from playing what you want.</p>Yeah, limiting allowed material to 'only official Paizo material' makes sense as an easy way to explain it to players, but refusing to allow material that you want to allow seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It's not like all Paizo material is good, so while easy to use, a 'Paizo only' stance isn't a good metric for well-written stuff. Nor is it a good metric for fun, since you have already stated that it is preventing you from playing what you want.TOZ (alias of TriOmegaZero)2012-01-14T17:56:44ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Darkwing Duckhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1332012-01-14T07:13:53Z2012-01-14T07:13:53Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">gbonehead wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Right. And if it makes more sense to you, by all means, do it that way.</p>
<p>I'm a Paizo charter superscriber. I've backfilled all the Paizo non-module material that I don't have. As of now, I don't really purchase any third party material (Tome of Horrors is the sole exception), and given what I spend on Paizo stuff, I'm not likely to start soon.</p>
<p>What about me limiting the rules to Paizo rules (for my games) doesn't make sense? </blockquote><p>Everything about you limiting the rules to Paizo rules (for your games) makes sense right up til the point where you arbitrarily prevent yourself from playing with rules you want to play with (psionics rules) and expect publishing companies to respond to your arbitrary restrictions.
<p>Consider, Dreamscarred has not only already made the rules you want (albeit, under a different publishing company), but if Paizo were to make the rules you want, it would split the customer base between Dreamscarred and Paizo. If Paizo just bought the license to publish the Dreamscarred stuff under the Paizo label, it would put a lot of people at Dreamscarred out of work while not achieving anything other than responding to your arbitrary demands.</p>
<p>Sometimes the customer is wrong.</p>gbonehead wrote:Right. And if it makes more sense to you, by all means, do it that way.
I'm a Paizo charter superscriber. I've backfilled all the Paizo non-module material that I don't have. As of now, I don't really purchase any third party material (Tome of Horrors is the sole exception), and given what I spend on Paizo stuff, I'm not likely to start soon.
What about me limiting the rules to Paizo rules (for my games) doesn't make sense?
Everything about you limiting the rules to Paizo...Darkwing Duck2012-01-14T07:13:53ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?gboneheadhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1322012-01-13T15:51:01Z2012-01-13T15:51:01Z<p>Right. And if it makes more sense to you, by all means, do it that way.</p>
<p>I'm a Paizo charter superscriber. I've backfilled all the Paizo non-module material that I don't have. As of now, I don't really purchase any third party material (Tome of Horrors is the sole exception), and given what I spend on Paizo stuff, I'm not likely to start soon.</p>
<p>What about me limiting the rules to Paizo rules (for my games) doesn't make sense?</p>Right. And if it makes more sense to you, by all means, do it that way.
I'm a Paizo charter superscriber. I've backfilled all the Paizo non-module material that I don't have. As of now, I don't really purchase any third party material (Tome of Horrors is the sole exception), and given what I spend on Paizo stuff, I'm not likely to start soon.
What about me limiting the rules to Paizo rules (for my games) doesn't make sense?gbonehead2012-01-13T15:51:01ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Darkwing Duckhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1312012-01-13T02:34:28Z2012-01-13T02:34:28Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">gbonehead wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Well, if he was addressing me, it's easy. Because I'm the GM and I say so. Really, it's that simple.</p>
<p>I'm not a jerk. I'm a very player-friendly, expansive GM. But when I run games, I like to have good access to the rule set. Keeping a game to just Paizo Pathfinder materials keeps things in check. Not as much as you might think; there's a <i>lot</i> of Paizo material out there, but it does help.</p>
<p>* I don't have players scouring third party books trying to find that one feat/spell/1-level-dip that will make them uber-overpowered.</p>
<p>* I don't have to purchase even moar books. I buy plenty.</p>
<p>* I know that I (in theory) only have rules that have been considered, not only in themselves, but in how they relate to all other Paizo Pathfinder rules.</p>
<p>Now, for <i>right now</i> it's all a moot point. I run a combo 3.5e/Pathfinder game, and there <i>are</i> 3.5e psionics rules. They're used sparingly, but we do use them.</p>
<p>I also run a straight Pathfinder game. It's new players, they're in part one of Carrion Crown, and they don't give a rat's ass about psionics; they're happy with ranger and ninja and gunslinger and sorcerer and cleric. But if they asked about psionics, I'd simply say "there's no rules for psionics. If Paizo makes any, I'll let you know right away." </blockquote><p>I understand the desire to constrain the rules allowed to a small subset of the rules available, but it makes more sense to me to constrain the rules to the rules you want to play with, not just arbitrarily base it on who publishes the rules.
</p>
The way we've done it in the past is that the GM writes up a document at the beginning of the campaign listing what's going to be allowed.</p>gbonehead wrote:Well, if he was addressing me, it's easy. Because I'm the GM and I say so. Really, it's that simple.
I'm not a jerk. I'm a very player-friendly, expansive GM. But when I run games, I like to have good access to the rule set. Keeping a game to just Paizo Pathfinder materials keeps things in check. Not as much as you might think; there's a lot of Paizo material out there, but it does help.
* I don't have players scouring third party books trying to find that one...Darkwing Duck2012-01-13T02:34:28ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?gboneheadhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1302012-01-12T21:22:23Z2012-01-12T21:22:23Z<p>Well, if he was addressing me, it's easy. Because I'm the GM and I say so. Really, it's that simple.</p>
<p>I'm not a jerk. I'm a very player-friendly, expansive GM. But when I run games, I like to have good access to the rule set. Keeping a game to just Paizo Pathfinder materials keeps things in check. Not as much as you might think; there's a <i>lot</i> of Paizo material out there, but it does help.</p>
<p>* I don't have players scouring third party books trying to find that one feat/spell/1-level-dip that will make them uber-overpowered.</p>
<p>* I don't have to purchase even moar books. I buy plenty.</p>
<p>* I know that I (in theory) only have rules that have been considered, not only in themselves, but in how they relate to all other Paizo Pathfinder rules.</p>
<p>Now, for <i>right now</i> it's all a moot point. I run a combo 3.5e/Pathfinder game, and there <i>are</i> 3.5e psionics rules. They're used sparingly, but we do use them.</p>
<p>I also run a straight Pathfinder game. It's new players, they're in part one of Carrion Crown, and they don't give a rat's ass about psionics; they're happy with ranger and ninja and gunslinger and sorcerer and cleric. But if they asked about psionics, I'd simply say "there's no rules for psionics. If Paizo makes any, I'll let you know right away."</p>Well, if he was addressing me, it's easy. Because I'm the GM and I say so. Really, it's that simple.
I'm not a jerk. I'm a very player-friendly, expansive GM. But when I run games, I like to have good access to the rule set. Keeping a game to just Paizo Pathfinder materials keeps things in check. Not as much as you might think; there's a lot of Paizo material out there, but it does help.
* I don't have players scouring third party books trying to find that one feat/spell/1-level-dip that...gbonehead2012-01-12T21:22:23ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Carl Casconehttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1292012-01-12T13:46:28Z2012-01-12T13:46:28Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Darkwing Duck wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Dragon78 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> It does not exist as an official pathfinder product, i am not big on 3rd party products myself and i know a lot of DMs who do not use them at all.</p>
<p>I actually want a psion/psychic class and have psionic based archtypes for every class. In the case of Sorcerers it would be a bloodline of course but a bloodline is kind of an archtype to me anyway. </blockquote>You are capable of changing your opinion on whether or not to use 3pp psionics rule. Why do you choose not to change your mind? (no judgement intended, the fact that you refuse to change your mind is something that I find myself unable to understand and, so, would appreciate an explanation). </blockquote><p>I think dragon78 is a different person from Gbone. If you want psionics bad enough there is a 3pp rules set.
<p>I don't know if I want to tag on another rules set. I also view psionics as a cool niche in my game for places like Numeria, Deep sea, and Arkenstar. I would much rather see epic rules from Paizo rather than psionic rules. </p>
<p>If I ever need to use psionics I'll use Dreamscarred. If I work out my Vudrani campaign I might investigate Dreamscarred as well.</p>Darkwing Duck wrote:Dragon78 wrote:It does not exist as an official pathfinder product, i am not big on 3rd party products myself and i know a lot of DMs who do not use them at all.
I actually want a psion/psychic class and have psionic based archtypes for every class. In the case of Sorcerers it would be a bloodline of course but a bloodline is kind of an archtype to me anyway.
You are capable of changing your opinion on whether or not to use 3pp psionics rule. Why do you choose not to...Carl Cascone2012-01-12T13:46:28ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Darkwing Duckhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1282012-01-11T23:05:40Z2012-01-11T23:05:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dragon78 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> It does not exist as an official pathfinder product, i am not big on 3rd party products myself and i know a lot of DMs who do not use them at all.</p>
<p>I actually want a psion/psychic class and have psionic based archtypes for every class. In the case of Sorcerers it would be a bloodline of course but a bloodline is kind of an archtype to me anyway. </blockquote><p>You are capable of changing your opinion on whether or not to use 3pp psionics rule. Why do you choose not to change your mind? (no judgement intended, the fact that you refuse to change your mind is something that I find myself unable to understand and, so, would appreciate an explanation).Dragon78 wrote:It does not exist as an official pathfinder product, i am not big on 3rd party products myself and i know a lot of DMs who do not use them at all.
I actually want a psion/psychic class and have psionic based archtypes for every class. In the case of Sorcerers it would be a bloodline of course but a bloodline is kind of an archtype to me anyway.
You are capable of changing your opinion on whether or not to use 3pp psionics rule. Why do you choose not to change your mind? (no...Darkwing Duck2012-01-11T23:05:40ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Dragon78http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1272012-01-11T22:25:06Z2012-01-11T22:25:06Z<p>It does not exist as an official pathfinder product, i am not big on 3rd party products myself and i know a lot of DMs who do not use them at all.</p>
<p>I actually want a psion/psychic class and have psionic based archtypes for every class. In the case of Sorcerers it would be a bloodline of course but a bloodline is kind of an archtype to me anyway.</p>It does not exist as an official pathfinder product, i am not big on 3rd party products myself and i know a lot of DMs who do not use them at all.
I actually want a psion/psychic class and have psionic based archtypes for every class. In the case of Sorcerers it would be a bloodline of course but a bloodline is kind of an archtype to me anyway.Dragon782012-01-11T22:25:06ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?LazarXhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1262012-01-11T14:30:36Z2012-01-11T14:30:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dragon78 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I don't care about convincing you to want it(Psionics), I want it, if enough people want it then we can get it. Just because it might exist in Pathfinder doesn't mean you have to use it, like all things other than the core book it is optional and an option I would like to see.</p>
<p>As long as they get rid of that stupid power point system I will be fine. </blockquote><p>Well that's the sticky wicket. Among the people who advocate for psionics here, the majority seem to want the old 3.5 style, either as it is, touched up by Paizo, or co-opting Dreamscarred's work. I used to be among them, but my enthuisasm for psionics has mostly cooled.Dragon78 wrote:I don't care about convincing you to want it(Psionics), I want it, if enough people want it then we can get it. Just because it might exist in Pathfinder doesn't mean you have to use it, like all things other than the core book it is optional and an option I would like to see.
As long as they get rid of that stupid power point system I will be fine.
Well that's the sticky wicket. Among the people who advocate for psionics here, the majority seem to want the old 3.5 style,...LazarX2012-01-11T14:30:36ZRe: Paizo Products: Will we see Class related books?Darkwing Duckhttp://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ndf6&page=3?Will-we-see-Class-related-books#1252012-01-11T14:17:23Z2012-01-11T14:17:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dragon78 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I don't care about convincing you to want it(Psionics), I want it, if enough people want it then we can get it. Just because it might exist in Pathfinder doesn't mean you have to use it, like all things other than the core book it is optional and an option I would like to see.</p>
<p>As long as they get rid of that stupid power point system I will be fine. </blockquote><p>It already exists in Pathfinder. I already don't use it.
<p>The question is whether it'd be used in PFS.</p>
<p>If you want to get rid of the stupid power point system, then why wouldn't a Sorcerer archetype be sufficient for you?</p>Dragon78 wrote:I don't care about convincing you to want it(Psionics), I want it, if enough people want it then we can get it. Just because it might exist in Pathfinder doesn't mean you have to use it, like all things other than the core book it is optional and an option I would like to see.
As long as they get rid of that stupid power point system I will be fine.
It already exists in Pathfinder. I already don't use it. The question is whether it'd be used in PFS.
If you want to get rid of...Darkwing Duck2012-01-11T14:17:23Z