Article

iPod Overseas Report: Bangkok, Thailand 11/2007

By Jeremy Horwitz ● Wednesday, November 14, 2007

There are places in the world where it’s hard not to see iPods, and places where you would never find them no matter how hard you looked. Then there is Bangkok, Thailand, a Southeast Asian city that confusingly sits someplace inbetween: what should one make of a place where first-generation iPod nanos seem to be more common on the streets than any other iPod, yet iPods are still in the apparent minority relative to other brands—despite the fact that brand-new iPods are widely available in stores, including those of official Apple-sanctioned resellers?

The answer appears to be simple: Thailand is one of a number of less wealthy countries where people are still daunted by Apple’s iPod pricing, and aren’t blanketed by its marketing. You wouldn’t guess this from a day or two of exploration here, as Bangkok has all of the signs of an environment conducive to iPod success: a culture interested in both domestic and international music, a huge youth population dependent upon public transport or the streets to go to school and shopping, and a level of technology savviness sufficient to appreciate the iPod/iTunes combination.

There are certainly plenty of stores with iPods for sale. And if you look in the right places, you’ll even find an iPod ad or two around, or a Nike store window touting the Nike + iPod Sport Kit combination. The country, as represented by this city, seems highly iPod-ready.

But from what we’ve gathered, it’s not. As we saw in both Malaysia and Singapore, there are plenty of cell phones and no shortage of MP3 players on the streets here, but they’re not Apple’s, or even the semi-amusingly Apple-branded knockoffs. Despite persistent and even video subway ads for Motorola’s RAZR 2, low-end phones and inexpensive flash memory screened music players are clearly what’s popular here; Nokia models and Sony Ericssons dominate the phone scene, with random MP3 player brands filling the iPod’s gap.

Pricing—namely, the presence of less expensive options promising more features—is only part of the issue. The sheer number of iPod knockoffs for sale in Bangkok is amazing, and the ways that iPods have been cloned are all but stunning, particularly in the nano and shuffle families.

These are just a few of the second-generation nanos with too tall or too small cell phone-styled screens. We asked the vendor whether these were really iPods, and were told that they were. “From Apple?” we asked. “From Taiwan.” Oh? “Apple in Taiwan?” “Yes,” said the merchant. Make of that what you will. Cloning aside, it’s obvious that “iPod” is beginning to become a generic name for “MP3/MP4) player” locally, a problem Apple will need to confront to avoid seeing its products go further down the Xerox road.

We also saw lots of clones of third-generation nanos. They have colorful plastic front shells and Click Wheels that may or may not be properly aligned.

There are also plenty of second-generation iPod shuffles, most notably in black—hey, why hasn’t Apple done that?—and in 2GB models. Some, as shown above, even have screens. We get the impression that screenless flash-based players are just not interesting to users here.

iPhone clones? Surprisingly few and far between. There is this iPhone-like thing from a company called KER, but it’s not a phone. It’s much smaller than the iPhone, and doesn’t have a touchscreen: rather, it’s just a cheap audio and video player. The home button remains, alongside track, menu, and volume buttons that have been built into the unit’s face corners—you press the corners of the face, iRiver Clix-style, to change what’s happening on the screen. At least, that’s supposed to be how it works; it didn’t seem to be very responsive when we tried to play with one.

There are even silicone cases made specifically for the knockoffs, sitting in the display cases alongside them, and occasionally, knockoffs of popular iPod accesories. Bose’s SoundDock has been completely and shamelessly cloned by a company called Embee—the first direct duplicate we’ve seen of this system, putting aside the many approximations and wannabees. We got the feeling that more time was being put into marketing the fakes than the real things.

Some of this is clearly attributable to iPod envy in a place where the real things aren’t as affordable or available as they should be. On a more positive note, there are iPhone-inspired ads in shopping malls where stores aren’t selling Apple’s products.

And there are things like these—Apple-inspired, kid-friendly t-shirts, which we’ve seen in stores but never on people: iPood, the odd “Strawberry” branded, iPod-styled Mickey Mouse, and the Mac.Suck t-shirt, which was buried on a rack at a store focused mostly on “Nerd” and other computer-centric clothes.

In a city where knockoffs of foreign fashion and luxury brands are common, the Apple brand rarely appears off of media players. These wallets and cases were an unusual exception.

As noted earlier in this article, the main obstacles to iPod popularity here appear to be price and marketing—along with the lack of a local iTunes store, these are signs that Apple doesn’t take Thailand too seriously as a market for its digital media players. On the plus side, Apple’s Asian arm does bother to translate certain iPod point-of-purchase brochures—not signs—into Thai. And it does offer most of the new iPod lineup here, notably minus the red nano and shuffle.

The problem is the pricing. Apple’s “Premium Resellers” offer iPods at the following premiums over U.S. prices:

Once again, in a region where people have less disposable income than in the United States, they’re charged a lot more for iPod models than U.S. customers are. And it’s not like there’s a single $40 premium that uniformly accounts for marketing costs, or a premium that varies slightly based on greater shipping or marketing costs for certain models. Basically, as the iPod’s price goes up, so does the premium over the U.S. price, which when added to the local 7% VAT makes top models all but unaffordable locally.

Resellers offset this modestly by offering discounts on discontinued models. Last year’s 4GB iPod nano sells for 4500 Thai Baht, or $142 with tax, $132 without. The prior shuffle sells new for 3450 Baht—$109 with tax, $101 without. That these models are still pricey explains why, when we have spotted iPods here, we’ve felt like we were flashing backwards a year or two in time. There was the one woman we saw with an iPod nano in one hand and an original Motorola RAZR in the other, just like 2005-vintage experiences we’ve had in the U.S. and elsewhere. The models and accessories we see are a nearly unflinching combination of a white first-generation iPod nano, a frosted clear silicone rubber case, and pre-2006 iPod earbuds, most likely purchased after the models were discontinued and their accessories sold at a discount.

We only rarely see newer earbuds in ears here, and as uncommon as they are, they’re generally connected to white full-sized 5.5G iPods, not colorful second-generation nanos. That white iPods would be popular here has been a big surprise to us, given the incredible, vivid colors we see everywhere else we look: the very shades picked by Apple for its second-generation nano lineup appear to have come directly from Thai silk markets. We saw one fabric store where the nano’s exact colors were lined up right next to each other, though in truth, that level of color saturation is almost impossible to miss here.

That’s not to say that everything’s backwards in Bangkok. Apple does sell Apple TVs, and prior-generation video-ready accessories are more widely sold here than they were in Japan—Sonic Impact’s Video-55 (and i-P22) are sold by Astone here, “powered by Sonic Impact”—and we’ve seen i-Theater video glasses, too.

It’s obvious that video is considered to be a selling point of the iPod family, and though we have yet to see people actually watching portable videos on the above-ground Skytrain and underground MTS rail systems here, the presence of video advertisements and even music videos on the Skytrains suggests that people are ready for their own devices. Craig David’s Hot Stuff, a remake of David Bowie’s Let’s Dance, has been playing on the Skytrain monitors while we’ve been in town.

Audio accessories, primarily speakers and cheap headphones, are the biggest local draw. Some of the models, such as Bose’s SoundDock (17900 Baht, or $566), are familiar, but clearly not widely purchased. Less expensive newer systems, such as DLO’s iBoom Home—as yet unannounced in the United States, but selling here for around $100-125—are interesting, while still other unfamiliar speakers, including myriad clones of Altec Lansing inMotions and JBL speakers, are not.

In legitimate stores—those run by Apple-authorized resellers—major U.S. brands are impressively well-represented, though their products range from current to far-past offerings. Marware, Griffin, Belkin, DLO and XtremeMac are just some of the vendors with full lineups of cases and electronic accessories on display, with all of the new iPods (and even the iPhone) given add-on options. Discontinued Griffin, Belkin, and TEN Technology accessories are also pretty common, too. Some stores sell them at full price; others offer aggressive discounts.

From what we have seen here, Apple’s biggest potential opening appears to be for the iPhone—more specifically, if it can release a smaller, cheaper iPhone to cater to local tastes. Over five days spent mingling with Bangkok’s locals, we’ve seen zero actual iPhones in use besides our own, which registered a few curious stares when we whipped it out for iPhones Around the World pictures.

The lack of iPhones in Bangkok is most likely due to their pricing, size, and the PDA-like feature set. We have seen comparatively few smartphones in use around here—only a handful of Sony Ericsson, Blackberry, and Windows Mobile models in actual hands—as the bulk of interest appears to be in candybar-style designs rather than flip, slide, or touch-style phones. In short, what would have the best chance at success here would be an aggressively priced phone akin to Motorola’s ill-fated ROKR, but with better execution.

Before that happens, iPhone unlockers will continue to dominate the small local market for Apple phones. Our past experiences in other countries had us expecting to see iPhones all over the local cell phone shops, touted openly at widely varying prices. In Thailand, however, the small vendors appear to be willing to talk about the iPhone and promote it in handwritten or printed signs, but they don’t always have them in stock, and rarely if ever on actual display.

On one of our visits to a major electronics mall yesterday, we saw unlocked iPhones selling for between 23,000 and 24,000 Baht, the equivalent of $725 to $757—much higher than U.S. prices for locked phones, but nowhere near what we’ve been seeing as top eBay prices over the last month. And even though iPhones themselves aren’t as widely available as we’d expected, the number of iPhone accessories around here is surprising. Though iPod touch cases are few in number and almost exclusively limited to no-name vendors here, small and large accessory makers alike are selling lots of different iPhone cases.

As fans of Apple’s products, it’s hard to feel thrilled about the state of the iPod or iPhone in Thailand. No matter where we’ve visited or how we’ve gotten there, it’s rare to see iPods actually in use by members of the Thai population, and when we do see them in hands, they’re always old models; when we see them in stores, they’re most frequently knockoffs. That’s a shame, as it’s plainly obvious that people here love their cell phones and music. It’s possible that Apple has opted not to bother much with this market—it doesn’t even operate an online Apple Store for Thailand—due to copyright concerns, as other companies have had to offer special lower-priced versions of their software and music offerings to accommodate this piracy-loving country. That’s not Apple’s style.

But global price decreases sometimes are. When Apple announced its 1GB, $149 first-generation iPod nano roughly two years ago, we cheered because it had finally made available a model that offered the features people wanted (flash memory and a color screen) at the price less wealthy countries and their people could afford. With nano component prices falling and demand rising for affordable, small video players, perhaps now is the right time for a $99 2GB nano—offset by a modest international premium—for countries like Thailand. There’s no reason that the iPod should be outnumbered by competitors in a place like this, which has a thriving demand for cell phones and a legitimate demand for affordable MP3 players. We’re hoping that real iPods are more conspicuous than knockoffs and other alternatives in Bangkok by the next time we visit.

Comments

1

I’m living in Thailand, and also own an iPhone which I bought from the US and unlocked. It costs about half of what the unlockers here ask for. I don’t know if you looked in the right places since Bangkok is more or less divided in between high class and middle class, if you look at the rich population, then more than half of them own iPods, and maybe about 1% of them own iPhones. At my school, which is an international school, about 15 people (out of 200) in my grade has iPhones, that’s about 7.5 percent! That’s quite a lot. A few are also getting iPhones towards the end of the month.

Before, it used to be that I can’t go outside of my house and not see an iPhone in public. But after I’ve got my own personal iPhone, I never really saw any other people’s iPhones anymore. Maybe it’s just psychological, since i’m not looking around to find it anymore. LOL

Posted by wackybit in East Amherst, NY, USA on November 14, 2007 at 4:57 AM (CST)

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Apple add premiums to their products on all international markets. Only reason that I could buy an iPod Touch was because it was 25% cheaper importing it from America than purchasing from a store in Australia.
We’re loving the falling US dollar.

Posted by wholikespotatoes in East Amherst, NY, USA on November 14, 2007 at 6:41 AM (CST)

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i’m living in thailand and i’ve iPod Photo and i’ll buy iPhone soon.

Pricing of Apple Products in Thailand are very expensive.
may be about reseller in thailand NOT Apple own Store, ex. Apple Store.

Sellers are have very expensive service price for “Thai Language Update in iPod/iPhone(for Unlock Phone)” when you want to make you iPod to read Thai language or unlock iPhone. and Software are Free !,
i’m very hate for seller in Thailand who have pricing for software-service !!!

and about fake-iPod there’re very liked for Thai-People who like cheep product. but in Thailand there’ve many iPod User OR Mac User in Thailand and people in thailand look Apple-Product like “very expensive” maybe about reseller 555

and iPhone Price in Thailand. if you walk in MBK(Popular Mobile Marketplace in Thailand). There’re price is about 19000 THB to 23000 THB but some website in Thailand was sell iPhone in 17500 THB to 20000THB.

PS.i never to seen people in Thailand held iPhone in their hand 555. but iPhone is most popular in for people who love technology in Thailand.

Posted by PZ* in East Amherst, NY, USA on November 14, 2007 at 12:06 PM (CST)

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To clarify the post above, when the guys says “5555”, in thai the number five is pronounced “ha”, so basically he’s saying “LOL”.

And about iPhone unlocking. I think the reason MBK and other places are able to charge a thousand baht (US$32) just for unlocking, 500 baht for putting in installer.app ($16), and 1500 baht for upgrading from 1.0.2 to 1.1.1 is because the rich people who are willing to spend the 800 dollars to buy an iPhone from these places are just “rich and stupid”. Since a little googling will lead them to the unlocking solutions. And since these people are rich, they probably know at least someone who’s going to the US regularly. When I got mine, four of my friends also got iPhones. Two of them had me unlock theirs, and two others unlocked it themselves. One of the two that unlocked themselves is a mac power user, so he’s probably able to do it. But the other one is not really good with computers and he uses windows, so he havent read anything about iPhone unlocking prior to owning one. That person unlocked his iPhone within that day.

So it’s not really hard for a technologically challenged person to unlock their iPhones since there are step by step instructions everywhere on the internet. It’s just that they have the money to spend, and they are just stupid enough to spend that money.

One upside to this is that i can earn money. So far, I’ve unlocked about ten iPhones and I’m so used to it that I can do it within a few minutes. So whenever someone gets a new iPhone, they come to me. I charge cheaper than MBK and does everything for them, including thai support. So in the end, I get more money =D

Posted by wackybit in East Amherst, NY, USA on November 14, 2007 at 8:49 PM (CST)

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Hi. I’m in Thailand too. You’ve come to Thailand in a silent mode. If you were look around before coming here. There are Mac/iPod/iPhone community website that you could talk too.

Posted by SKsk- in East Amherst, NY, USA on November 15, 2007 at 1:35 AM (CST)

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I’m a member/moderator for those site. If you happen to contact us/them before coming here. We could set a small gathering and bring you to see/meet the users of all kind (iPod,Mac,iPhone).

I personally using iPhone too, got it in Seattle with my last visit, I got 10 units back with me :). Regarding iPhone, I believe its more than 2000 units sold here. I use it everyday on BTS but not really have it in my hand, not point for that. So no one know that I using iPhone. The white earbud look similar to iPod’s earbud.

Posted by SKsk- in East Amherst, NY, USA on November 15, 2007 at 1:39 AM (CST)

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Anyway, Thanks for your good report. Apple Thailand should come and read this report. The price of Mac and iPod is very high here compared to Singapore and Hong Kong. Its very high no matter Thai Bath get stronger against US$. They just bump up the price again last week. This is a New Year Gift Price, I think.

You love iPod, you’ve to pay more… Quoted by Apple Thailand. :)

Posted by SKsk- in East Amherst, NY, USA on November 15, 2007 at 1:40 AM (CST)

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I’ve to admit that a lot of what you say is the truth but it isn’t all true. I’m Thai and living in Thailand. I’ve been using mac for about 3-4 yrs. I would like to say that your experience about apple product in Thailand will depend on where you are. In my school, located in Southern part of Thailand, there are a lot of student who own ipods. 15 out of 45 students in my class own an ipods. Some even have two or more. The most popular one is the first-gen nano. You’re right about it. Well, I myself wouldn’t think it is about the pricing. If you have study about ipod in Thailand before you will know that the recent model ipod can’t be hack to put Thai language in. So that is one important reason that people here still stick to the old model, ranging from 1st gen nano - ipod video 5.5th gen. all these ipod can be put Thai font in and so enabling it to read Thai. The newer ipod such as 2nd gen nano or classic can’t be hack to put Thai in it’s firmware so the popularity of these device decrease. Also, not much people know their way around on how to flash ipod firmware. and Apple-reseller shop here charge a lot for the operation. Other reason may be just as you suggested, because Thai is so used to piracy. making them have no interest in online store such as ITMS. However, if you study close enough, a lot of educated population is willing to pay for it. Such example is the sale of new os, leopard. Leopard is sold out here within a few day even though it cost 4790THB which is a lot for Thais. I won’t go over the clone of ipod product here, well, main reason is because how gullible Thais is. They trust what seller told them and because the advertisement from apple here is so few, they have no way to tell which one is counterfeit which one is genuine. another factor may be the pricing as well.

Posted by winchayin in East Amherst, NY, USA on November 17, 2007 at 5:09 AM (CST)

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I’m Thai and I do agree with your article but maybe I can add a few things why ipod may seem less popular in Thailand than in the U.S.

-Most of Thais have way less disposable income. Because of the wage structure and the cost of living here is so much different than the U.S. or European countries. You can buy a meal on the street(e.g. a bowl of noodle with 1 soda) for less than a dollar. Therefore it is very difficult for majority of the population to be able to purchase an ipod.

-ipod from authorized dealer are way overpriced as you can see. It’s like spending their entire month of salary just to buy one (for an average thai).

-Channel of distribution of apple product is minimal. Not like the U.S. where you walk in to the mall there’s an apple store.

-not only Nokia and SonyEricsson dominate the handhelds market but also pocket PC, smartphones gain popularity here. These devices are far more advance when compared to phones offer in the U.S.
Thais tend to spend more money on their phones (because it can do it all, wifi,edge, good camera, mp3 player, vdo player) rather than buying another gadget.

-Thai culture is different, not many people using ipods or mp3 devices or listening to their phone while commuting, it just looks weird and it’s a cultural barrier.

-Alot of people here do own ipod including me (I have 4 minis and 60gb video) but we just don’t carry them around. I leave my ipod in the car. I also agree with comment above that ipod doesn’t support thai fonts so we have to hacked them ourselves.

-Those people who commute on public transportation are mostly in the lower income bracket. That’s why you don’t see them carrying one. The upper income people usually use them elsewhere.

-For Iphone it is getting more and more popular here (I’m getting one next month) because when you compare the price of the iphone to some nokia and SE it is a better investment (i think). But the only way to get one is to ask someone to carry them from overseas or pay the premium to those bloody grey market dealers.

-A lot of people including my girlfriend is waiting for the official iphone debut in Thailand (we hope it will come out and re-programmed to work with Thai content)

-Many spoiled teens here who don’t know sh## about computer do own iphone and willing to pay the premiums to get there phone unlocked. (Alot of old folks here as well they do not know much about technology but purchasing an expensive phone is to show off their status)

I hope this clear things up.

We all can just hope for the price of these babies to come down!

P.S. when i’m getting next apple product I’ll probably get it from the U.S. because it is way cheaper (Apple dealer in Thailand pls do something!)

Posted by tumcubus in East Amherst, NY, USA on November 19, 2007 at 10:29 AM (CST)

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After reading this article I feel that you haven’t gotten to see what’s really going on with Apple and the Thai market.

Here it’s a little bit different. It didn’t start with the iPods, but it started with Intel Macs. Apple became more popular after they have announced Intel Macs, and the “Premium” reseller you mentioned are those who uses “Two Systems in One Machine” motto to launch Macintosh products. After that more and more Macintoshs were sold to “consumer-level” users such as students and home users.

Yes, Apple seems to have a little late start in South East Asia region, not just in Thailand but the same to Malaysia, or even to Singapore.

One of the many reasons why you didn’t really see iPods around the streets or the places you went because you were around the place where people don’t even know what Apple is. If you go to a local school, you probably see 20% of the students are using iPods and 2% using “illegally imported and hacked iPhones”.

The other thing is that we have so many other brands which offer more features than what Apple could while maintaining a slightly lower price, even though they have zero after sales service. But the truth is that very few people really care about service since almost all electronic companies here have sh###y customer services anyway. They’d then preferred to go with Creative or even not using iPods at all.

Phones here can do a lot more than U.S. phones could. Like what the above comments have said. Nokia and Sony Ericsson are able to capture more of the market share which also overlaps into the MP3 market as well. Let’s take an example of a typical 8th grade students in the U.S., out of 100 students you probably only see 10 of the kids have smartphones and 10 of them have MP3-capable phones and 50 of them own a cellphone. Here, taking the same class, you will see that 95% of the kids own a phone, regardless whether its a western or local brand, all of them are capable of messaging, and making or receiving calls. 60% of those phones are MP3-capable, 40% of those phones have cameras and 30% of those phones will be smartphones with features like MMS, PDA, Internet and E-mail. 20% of those phones are either Nokia or Sony Ericsson. But these smartphones however may cost as low as 4000 baht or just $130.

iPods in Thailand are commonly seen as luxury goods that only looks good but not functional. By functional, I mean they cannot use “drag-and-drop” music transfer (iTunes is mandatory), FM radio, built-in recording, etc. While a phone that can play MP3, movies, FM radio, and have cameras cost only 8000 baht which is the same price as 8GB iPod nano. Not being mentioned that this is a genuine Nokia phone.

Cellphone here is also completely different from the U.S. where most of the carriers sell phones with contract. Here its more like the European market where people freely choose their phones and their plan. Very few people are using their phones under contract. Even post-paid services now we don’t even have to sign a signature or anything at all since the most expensive call rate domestically is only 3 Baht per minute (0.08 US dollars).

Posted by fridaynightlights in East Amherst, NY, USA on December 18, 2007 at 2:55 PM (CST)

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The other thing is that most Thais use their phone for only 6-12 months after purchase. Expats in Thailand would understand why. I would expect the same thing going on in the U.S. if the way carriers in the U.S. operate the same just like in Europe or Asia-Pacific region. (Zero contract) That’s why you’d see a lot of places selling second hand phones. The same thing goes to iPod.

The only reason why people still hold on to their older iPods is that they can be hacked in order to install the Thai fonts.

Posted by fridaynightlights in East Amherst, NY, USA on December 18, 2007 at 3:00 PM (CST)

1

Thanks for all of your comments. The critical thing to point out in response to some of them is that our observations on what we saw in Bangkok are meant to be understood as comparative rather than absolute. We spent a week in Bangkok this year (we’ve visited before) after spending a week in Tokyo, and of course, after visiting many other cities (US, Europe, Asia) in the past and seeing what iPod use was like there. The differences were huge. We actually did stop at a school, and the number of kids with iPods there—as in other places—was small relative to what we’ve seen in many other major cities. This isn’t meant to be offensive to Thais who love their iPods, but rather a statement of our comparative observations. Perhaps everyone hides their iPods, or perhaps there just aren’t as many there as elsewhere. We’d bet heavily on the latter.

Posted by Jeremy Horwitz in East Amherst, NY, USA on December 18, 2007 at 4:33 PM (CST)

1

I’m living in Thailand and more than 10 of my classmate (out of 30) have iPod (5G), 4 iPhone and some even have shuffle as secondary iPod including myself =)

But… I never buy any of Apple product in Thailand though,usually from Hong Kong because of the price difference.

Posted by AlphaUser in East Amherst, NY, USA on February 17, 2008 at 12:31 PM (CST)

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nice article, job well done!

Posted by plai in East Amherst, NY, USA on May 29, 2008 at 12:28 AM (CDT)

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Hi everyone,
I am coming to thailand tomorrow and would love to buy an IEA 15 remote adapter or a belkin one for the third party of an ipod shuffle.could anyone help me where to go to get one? Unfortunatelly we cannot buy it back in Europe. Thanks for your help in advance!juci

Posted by juci in East Amherst, NY, USA on September 16, 2009 at 6:17 AM (CDT)

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Today is different!

Apple products have a huge influent on Thai.

You will see 85% of smart phone people using is iPhone.

It is a white-earbud culture now.

Posted by OKKK in East Amherst, NY, USA on December 11, 2009 at 12:54 PM (CST)