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Kingu did not expect the betrayal from them. Completely different scenario.

Idk. Gil's Armor can definitely take at least one or two hit imo. His Armor is a lot more durable than you're giving it credit for. It took a full Excaliblast at close range from Artoria to 1 shot him. I don't think Herc can 1 shot him to the same effect

It's not like they sneak attacked him. He was fully aware what they were doing as soon as they told him. At most he was at a disadvantage starting directly in melee. Although I guess the fact he didn't even try to defend himself suggests he was still surprised...so never mind actually.

A full Excaliblast is what killed him, doesn't mean he can't be killed by less. I don't think Gil would get one-shotted given he tanked Gram and could block repeated blows from Saber without being affected much, but Berserker has better feats than both of those to be honest, so it's possible.

Fate route writes Gil as worse than Saber by a lot if he isn't using NPs.

Then again, Kirei!Gil is kind of ass. Tokiomi's summon has all his parameters except MR at B and above. Extra also has a number of melee animations from him and he's not even hesitant to go at Altera in CQC.

You meant like when Gil doesn't even bother pulling out any weapons and let Saber constantly hitting his armor and do absolutely no meaningful damage.

The invisible sword keeps hitting the man's armor.
The sword smashes against the armor, shaves it, letting off lightning sparks.
All the man can do is to protect his head with his hands.
This isn't even a match.
This is just one-sided elimination.

But.
Still, the golden armor retains its shape.
If the armor is free of damage even after taking Saber's attacks so many times…
…Could it be that his Noble Phantasm is his golden armor?

Fate route writes Gil as worse than Saber by a lot if he isn't using NPs.

because it is his combat style to keep pulling out weapon from his treasury to parry/attack you in close range just like in CCC. "Gilgamesh would be a lot worse at melee if he can't use any of his weapon." is what i'm getting here. Of course he's not gonna be better at Swordplay than Saber. But that's not a measurement of his ability in melee. His style is to overwhelm you by constantly drawing out different weapons, combined with GoB shooting, combined with Enkidu whenever necessary.

For Tamamo:
- How exactly 3 tails power translate into stats. How much stronger her strength and defense she gained? How much faster she can attack and move? Can she endure the RM with extra endurance? Is her strength high enough to allow her to 1shot Nobu with a drop kick? We only knew that the moment she grew the virtual 3rd tail in Solomon temple, she went from "i'm getting tired fighting these demon pillars" to "k let's get them Kintoki". Big power boost, but too vague.
- How much boost her skills will gain. Range increase (elemental curse aoe)? Damage increase (rider kick and the curses)? Effect increase (the amount of damage Aphotic Cave can block)?
- The details on the buffs Fox Wedding can give. Yes it's a bunch of buffs but what exactly are those in term of lore?
- Since her NP is a bounded field, will using it protect her from Nobu's RM?
- Tamamo in FGO does use Shapeshifting (in Solomon Temple), so would she be able to shapeshift (into mists and bats for example) to attack/evade like other shapeshifters?

For Nobu:
- How long can she maintain and stay in her RM since it's a double-edge sword?
- Would her bullets have enough damage to break through Aphotic Cave?
- How would she deal with the elemental curses.
- Can her RM gimp Tamamo enough that she can finish the fight b4 the RM runs out, considering we knew high tier divine servants ie Karna and Gil can endure it.
- Would her RM lose effect when Tamamo puts up the Bounded Field from her NP?

Nobu has massive advantage in this match up and she would win if it's 1-2 tails Tamamo, but for 3 tails it's a really huge jump in power compare to the other 2 forms and we only have the FGO one. Unless we see her in the main story doing stuffs, we don't have enough info atm. But for me, all things considered, the fight can be determined with 1 attack. 1 accurate shot from Nobu carrying every possible buffs she has in the spiritual core and she wins. But if Tamamo's powerup makes her fast and powerful that she can KO Nobu with Rider Kick, or her curse got buffed to the point she can spams it to give Nobu no free time to retaliate, it's her win.

For Nobu:
- Would her bullets have enough damage to break through Aphotic Cave?

Probably, Aphotic Cave isn't a perfect defense after all and it's more worrisome factor is the MP regen, also as Nobu would have Koha Ace stats her bullets can get up to EX compared to GO's A, which would definelty be stronger than Suzuka's sword rain.

Originally Posted by Mizukume

- Tamamo in FGO does use Shapeshifting (in Solomon Temple), so would she be able to shapeshift (into mists and bats for example) to attack/evade like other shapeshifters?
.

How does she use it, just being curious

Originally Posted by Mizukume

Too much unknown info for both of them tbh.

- Since her NP is a bounded field, will using it protect her from Nobu's RM?

I don't know, while she is able to block Violet's freezing of space with her NP by buffing the targeted area, that has to operate differently when your trying to do so on someones RM, their own inner world. So yeah that's a big unknown.

Originally Posted by Mizukume

- Can her RM gimp Tamamo enough that she can finish the fight b4 the RM runs out, considering we knew high tier divine servants ie Karna and Gil can endure it.
.

Still though, while they can endure and still fight, just existing in her RM for those who are Divine is very hard and a three tail Tamamo, who was already a Servant with high Divinity and Mystery, would probably feel it more so. Also Karna and Gil can probably endure the RM thanks to their NPs then just plain willpower... though knowing the two and what they have done I'm not discarding that option.

Yeah like you said their are too many things that we don't know, but it still an interesting match-up. Oda Nobunaga who holds absolute power over the divine and boasts to be able to slay gods and Buddha's and Tamamo who is God, and a major and powerful one as well to boot.

Last edited by Iceblade44; November 15th, 2017 at 03:34 PM.
Reason: Checked her guns actual go up EX in Koha Ace, OP

Where does it say she can't beat them? The only thing i was able to find talking about Gil/Karna and Nobu that despite having high Divinity they could still match her, not saying what she has is ineffective against them. Of course I could and very likely to be wrong since I haven't found the source about where that info came from, so continue as you will.

Where does it say she can't beat them? The only thing i was able to find talking about Gil/Karna and Nobu that despite having high Divinity they could still match her, not saying what she has is ineffective against them. Of course I could and very likely to be wrong since I haven't found the source about where that info came from, so continue as you will.

Probably, Aphotic Cave isn't a perfect defense after all and it's more worrisome factor is the MP regen, also as Nobu would have Koha Ace stats her bullets can get up to EX compared to GO's A, which would definelty be stronger than Suzuka's sword rain.]

But like I said: "How much boost her skills will gain. Range increase (elemental curse aoe)? Damage increase (rider kick and the curses)? Effect increase (the amount of damage Aphotic Cave can block)?". You are comparing 1 tail Tamamo's Aphotic Cave versus an unknown version that 3 tails Tamamo can put up.

How does she use it, just being curious

She used it to grow a 3rd tail, literally x9 her power from 2 tails temporarily. She was still hesitant to use it at first and planned to just hide behind Aphotic Cave cuz demon pillars too strong, but then she decided to do it and it got Kintoki hyped enough to pull out his Golden Bear. FGO Tamamo is far more open and willing to get stronger compare to the Tamamo you see in Extra/Extella.

Still though, while they can endure and still fight, just existing in her RM for those who are Divine is very hard and a three tail Tamamo, who was already a Servant with high Divinity and Mystery, would probably feel it more so. Also Karna and Gil can probably endure the RM thanks to their NPs then just plain willpower... though knowing the two and what they have done I'm not discarding that option.

You need to remember how that RM works. Despite the boasting description, it's basically a world of fire that constantly wears down both Nobu and her enemy, with damage increases the more mystery and divine they have. Karna might just endure it cuz he is fire proof, who knows. And since it also damages Nobu, the up time of it will also be shortened the longer the fight goes on in there obviously, making it one of the most costly RMs imo. Another the question is: How much fire resistance a sun deity like Tamamo have with 3 tails?

Yeah like you said their are too many things that we don't know, but it still an interesting match-up. Oda Nobunaga who holds absolute power over the divine and boasts to be able to slay gods and Buddha's and Tamamo who is God, and a major and powerful one as well to boot.

Tbh a better and more interesting match up should be vs Rama with his 2nd NP active, at least for me. He is much more capable in combat and if his Brahmastra considers Nobu as a demon...idk.

Heck it wouldn't even surprise me if you have to kill Sita who is summoned somewhere to actually end him, despite all the advantages.

You are Saber. You are strong and determined. You fight for justice and honor, and protect those around you. Selfless in every way, you would put yourself at risk to save others. You are a knight; the sword and shield of your allies.

Team battle: the Servants from Fragments vs Red Faction Servants. There are two rounds, one without the Hanging Gardens and one where the fight starts inside it.

Bonus rounds: Karna and Achilles vs everyone on the Fragments team but Arthur and Ozy, and Arthur and Ozy vs everyone on the Red team but Karna and Achilles.

For the bonus rounds, against Karna and Achilles the only one that would put up a decent fight would be Brynhild and only barely, while she is the only one among the five to have Divinity it is just at a measly E- Rank, so that would just scratch Achiiles, as for Karna I forget if he's a beloved or not but I would think so, so Bryn would have slightly better chances. This off course is ignoring what special stuff Para can whip up.

As for Ozy and Arthur, Arthur himself would be relatively easy to deal with against with all those numbers though Mordred would probably want to solo it, but knowing Semi's paranoid self she will probably want to strike him when his guard is down. Ozy would be a little more tricky as your assuming this would be in his temple but the Red Faction should have enough abilties to go through it. Since poison is her speciality Semi can probably find a way to neutralise the temple's poison seeing that she was able to do it even against Hydra poison. We do know that the Temple doesn't seal passive NPs so Spartacus can still use Crying Warmonger, so they can probably leave it to him to have an eternal stalemate with the sphinx army. The biggest problem would be the Dendara bulb, because they have no reliable way to counter it, even with Clarent Blood Arthur I wouldn't think that would pack enough juice.

As for the giant Team Battle, I don't know. I'm tired so I get back to that later, though it would probably revolve around an artillery match between Ozy's temple and Semi's Gardens.

I don't what Robin Hood does in Extra but in Grand Order he admitted he wasn't any good except in long range and poisoning and Beowulf stomped him even with help. Arash pressed Arthur and blotted out the sun with arrows, he seems a lot more impressive.