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Originally Posted by Wonderboy_JMB;2749892
With Donna Troy's recent re-death in JLA and with Power Girl unaccounted for in the DCnU, I realized that maybe this is some kind of backdoor exit strategy. Donna Troy was the first hero, just before [I

Infinite Crisis[/I], to remember the multiverse and played a pivotal role in that storyline. Power Girl was the second. SHOULD this relaunch not pan out well (and who knows at this point... we're all spending a ridiculous amount of time speculating about and discussing something everyone seems to hate), I could see maybe ANOTHER Donna return where only she remembers the old DCU and, with the help of the once-again-home world-less Power Girl, big crossover event, yadda yadda, back to normal.

DC Comics has got to be just about the dumbest company when it comes to comic book superheroes. These morons reboot and re-re-re-reboot their titles almost every other year with some new continuity. The big question is WHY?! Why can't things just be left alone, quit the numerous moronic crossovers and just concentrate on telling stories concerned with the characters in their own titles and quit coming up with some BIG BAD MONITOR SUPERMAN PRIME REALITY BENDING MONSTER that makes the whole DC Universe have to start from scratch again for the sake of new readers who DON'T actually come.

DC Comics has got to be just about the dumbest company when it comes to comic book superheroes. These morons reboot and re-re-re-reboot their titles almost every other year with some new continuity. The big question is WHY?! Why can't things just be left alone, quit the numerous moronic crossovers and just concentrate on telling stories concerned with the characters in their own titles and quit coming up with some BIG BAD MONITOR SUPERMAN PRIME REALITY BENDING MONSTER that makes the whole DC Universe have to start from scratch again for the sake of new readers who DON'T actually come.

Maybe it would work if they did full on hard reboots. But Marvel does the same thing, in fact any time a new creative team comes on a book for Marvel it's almost like a soft reboot. The only difference is they don't always make a big event out of. But when Marvel has done events typically the big reason you can tell things change is since the story in the book before the event has an issue left to wrap up comes back after the three months of event and then things are different in the first story after the event. Spider-man's Other's powers, Spider-man Iron Man suit? (of course the second does make sense), and that's just Spider-man. Any time a new major creative team comes on when the reference the origin of characters things get changed. What is Iron Man's current origin story?

But comics as a medium are known for things always going back to how they were, it's a joke on most forums. With DC and Marvel, the joke is you don't like it it will all back to the way it is now in 6-24 months.

But then Marvel (which in the grand scheme of things isn't doing that well either) is selling twice as many books as DC who is in second place in comics overall.

Last edited by wyldman11; July 4, 2011 at 09:38am.

One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
-Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

Although I like the current Green Lantern stuff (Blackest Night, Brightest Day, War of the GL) I really dislike this whole confusing Earth 1, Earth 2 stuff and the way they pubkish their stories over parallel book series...

DC Comics has got to be just about the dumbest company when it comes to comic book superheroes. These morons reboot and re-re-re-reboot their titles almost every other year with some new continuity. The big question is WHY?! Why can't things just be left alone, quit the numerous moronic crossovers and just concentrate on telling stories concerned with the characters in their own titles and quit coming up with some BIG BAD MONITOR SUPERMAN PRIME REALITY BENDING MONSTER that makes the whole DC Universe have to start from scratch again for the sake of new readers who DON'T actually come.

Thats a good point- do DC/Marvel ever actually gain new readers when they do these reboots?

Did new readers come after Crisis on Infinite Earths? If not is there any point in doing this reboot at all?

With the Green Lantern/Thor movies both out I have seen more of thier respective GN's at mainstream bookstores- surely if some kid read one and enjoys it they can just use the internet to find some other comics/GN's (e.g. with the same character or the same writer or artist) and start collecting from there - it doesnt take 10 mins to check wikipedia to get some background on the story thats been before if they get confused.

Do we really need ANOTHER whole reboot for these "new readers" who may not even check out these new books?

DC is shying away from the term reboot, because soft reboots do not bring in new readers. Well not readers who stay, they come in start reading and say they don't know what is going on because there is XX number of years of history they don't know and don't go to the follow up issues. Which says a hard reboot would bring in new readers, but the companies are too afraid current readers will drop because they are more in love with the history than the brand/characters.

One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
-Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

I am hating this whole thing on so many levels. Especially bringing Babs Gordon back as Batgirl, and benching Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown. I cannot wait until the solo Babs Batgirl title tanks worse than Stephanie's Batgirl title, and it will. Babs was MUCH better as Oracle, and it is a slap in the face to fans of the character. This whole reboot is a slap in the face to the fans.,

DC has that 3 month rule that Jim Lee implemented. We'll see if he breaks his own deadline rule. I'm not convinced that Lee, Perez, Liefeld, Booth or Finch can do monthly titles anymore.

Originally Posted by Hordak Alpha

DC Comics has got to be just about the dumbest company when it comes to comic book superheroes. These morons reboot and re-re-re-reboot their titles almost every other year with some new continuity. The big question is WHY?! Why can't things just be left alone, quit the numerous moronic crossovers and just concentrate on telling stories concerned with the characters in their own titles and quit coming up with some BIG BAD MONITOR SUPERMAN PRIME REALITY BENDING MONSTER that makes the whole DC Universe have to start from scratch again for the sake of new readers who DON'T actually come.

I think the reboots do work when the writers write themselves into a hole or the continuity gets too crazy like Crisis on Infinite Earths. A reboot like Geogre Perez's WW, Byrne's Man of Steel and Miller's Batman Year One makes those characters feel fresh.The problem is that this is constant.

I know Marvel needs a reboot...

I think the constant legacy characters helps dilute the original characters. First you have Richard Grayson, then a generation later you Jason Todd, and later, Tim Drake. Now we have Daimian Wayne. You can't keep Bruce young when he has 3-4 generations of Robins. It's going to get worse each new generation. I'm not against legacy characters in general, just excessive amounts where heroes have entire families of heroes just like them.

But then this is a very Marvel-esque perspective.

Another thing I miss from the old comics is the constant references to other books and issues out there. If you saw an explosion in Spider-Man, there was a caption telling you to check-out X-Factor for the cause. If NY has a mysterious snow storm in Captain America, a blurb would tell you to go read Thor to see why.

Where is the bhuntress pic from and whats the news on her new backstory. Still glad to see her but both Brent and i are done with Dc as this is all sickening the straw that was our deciding factor was babs walking again. For me anyways it is a huge huge huge disrespect to myself and every single person in a wheelchair. Until dc reverses this mess i am done.

DC has that 3 month rule that Jim Lee implemented. We'll see if he breaks his own deadline rule. I'm not convinced that Lee, Perez, Liefeld, Booth or Finch can do monthly titles anymore.

I'm anticipating a lot of Carlos D'Anda pages in JLA by month 4 or 5.

Perez isn't drawing a book, just writing. There is no way he can do anything approaching a monthly anymore. I'm not sure he could draw a quarterly 22 page book.

Liefeld is just them playing with fire. That's a disaster waiting to happen. Unprofessional, questionable work ethic and the attention span of a gnat. They should just give the book to Karl Kessel, since he essentially redrew the entire Hawk & Dove miniseries that made Liefeld famous.

Booth seems like he might be the one guy who can make his deadlines.

Finch is a total joke. DC rewarded him with a flagship monthly title and he managed a whole 2 issues in 7 months.

Where is the bhuntress pic from and whats the news on her new backstory. Still glad to see her but both Brent and i are done with Dc as this is all sickening the straw that was our deciding factor was babs walking again. For me anyways it is a huge huge huge disrespect to myself and every single person in a wheelchair. Until dc reverses this mess i am done.

Well that is awesome but not enough for us to even glimpse at a dcu title in september maybe ifthey redid te batgirl titllle completely having babs as bg is rotten it should not just be given back same with her legs nothing magical no super tech crap it should have been a batgirl team book cass as black bat and steph as bg with babs slowly over say a small 24 issue arc opener for the series then redones the suit in issue 25 to costar with the otther two batgirls in the titl but itll likely see huge numbers like 50k in sept a drop to maybe 35k in oct and further ntil this and most others reach current numbers averaging 23k to 24k a month until many get cancelled.

I think the constant legacy characters helps dilute the original characters. First you have Richard Grayson, then a generation later you Jason Todd, and later, Tim Drake. Now we have Daimian Wayne. You can't keep Bruce young when he has 3-4 generations of Robins. It's going to get worse each new generation. I'm not against legacy characters in general, just excessive amounts where heroes have entire families of heroes just like them.

Isn't Richard Batman to Damian Wayne? Of course he will become Nightwing again with Flashpoint ending.

This is a problem with the big two in general they tend to do things half way. Legacy characters in DC are a prime example, and for both companies their reboots. I am at the point if they are going to do a reboot, do it stop doing this wishy washy kind of doing it.

One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
-Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

Isn't Richard Batman to Damian Wayne? Of course he will become Nightwing again with Flashpoint ending.

This is a problem with the big two in general they tend to do things half way. Legacy characters in DC are a prime example, and for both companies their reboots. I am at the point if they are going to do a reboot, do it stop doing this wishy washy kind of doing it.

Damian will be Robin, alongside Bruce in the reboot. But Grayson, Todd and Drake will all still have been previous Robins.

I guess they'll have to say that Robins have a very short shelf-life to keep Bruce from being in his 50s.

Damian will be Robin, alongside Bruce in the reboot. But Grayson, Todd and Drake will all still have been previous Robins.

I guess they'll have to say that Robins have a very short shelf-life to keep Bruce from being in his 50s.

Yeah I saw that because I checked before I opened my mouth on that one. Which I think they flub with it now as is.

One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
-Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

PRAISE JEEBUS for the Huntress miniseries! I'm so happy she's still Helena Bertinelli! And I'm also so happy they got rid of that stupid belly window again! Hopefully they'll keep it gone for good now!

Looks somewhat interesting. But it remains to be seen if it's the original, or the post-crisis one. If it's the original I'll pick it up, otherwise I won't bother in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Kevenn

PRAISE JEEBUS for the Huntress miniseries! I'm so happy she's still Helena Bertinelli!

Never mind...

*removes from pull-list*

I know Marvel needs a reboot...

How so? I see no legitimate reason for this. :\ What's the biggest, glaring reason that you see this as a necessary thing?

And if you feel the main MU needs some drastic modernizing, then why not just read the Ultimate Comics?? When they were launched, they were quite similar to what DC is seemingly about to do, just that they didn't scrap their old Universe in the process. You got to keep both, if you wanted to.

With something like the Ultimate Universe, I really don't see why Marvel needs to reboot their entire line. They've got the Ultimate U for all that sort of stuff.

I am hating this whole thing on so many levels. Especially bringing Babs Gordon back as Batgirl, and benching Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown. I cannot wait until the solo Babs Batgirl title tanks worse than Stephanie's Batgirl title, and it will. Babs was MUCH better as Oracle, and it is a slap in the face to fans of the character. This whole reboot is a slap in the face to the fans.,

Wow, what a needlessly heavy-handed, negative post. That is your opinion, and mine greatly differs. You have no way of knowing what lies ahead in the new Batgirl title, nor whether it will indeed "tank".

I, for one, am excited because DC may have no intention of healing Barbara's injury. I suspect her Batgirl will be an extension of the Oracle role, i.e., it will be a progression for the character reclaiming her mobility (in some regard) and not the wholesale regression some fans are expecting. (I find it provincial to believe Barbara will be the exact same Batgirl she was before. The character has grown and changed, and this is likely to be the next step in her story and progression.) Also, more often than not, when someone poo-poos a book that has yet to hit shelves, he is licking wounds because DC isn't doing the things he wants. If you don't want to read the book, then by no means should you read it. But publicly trumpeting that Barbara as Oracle is somehow automatically superior to the Batgirl version disservices the character and her journey, leading me to suspect you don't care about the character all that much, even as Oracle.

Furthermore, Barbara Gordon was the character who made "Batgirl" mean something. DC tried making a Batgirl who was very different from Barbara, and then later fashioned another Batgirl that was more like the Barbara Batgirl. Neither stuck, and it seems DC has finally realized they cannot effectively replace Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. But even that is not the main reason DC is giving for the change. Many writers and editors did not like the function of Oracle, because she has "god in a box" effect on the stories, i.e., she is who the characters call on for information they could/should be more actively finding out for themselves in a more dramatic way.

Originally Posted by Mermista

Where is the bhuntress pic from and whats the news on her new backstory. Still glad to see her but both Brent and i are done with Dc as this is all sickening the straw that was our deciding factor was babs walking again. For me anyways it is a huge huge huge disrespect to myself and every single person in a wheelchair. Until dc reverses this mess i am done.

Would you be interested in reading about a handicapped Barbara Gordon who fights as Batgirl? To me, that would be much more interesting than watching Barbara sit behind a computer screen issue after issue.

I am trying to figure out what, specifically, you're angry about. Is it Barbara taking back the Batgirl role or DC possibly healing her spinal injury (as they healed Batman's, Robin's and Batwoman's)?