You’re a young American soldier, born and raised Catholic, and you’re deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan or some other hot spot in the world today.

You risk your life on a daily basis. You’re fighting an increasingly unpopular war. Death and despair are all around you—and there’s little you can do about it.

This is a time when you need your Catholic faith and the soul-sustaining grace of the sacraments the most.

Yet, at the same time that you’re in harm’s way, you’re also “under fire” from zealous anti-Catholics who want you to go AWOL from the Catholic faith.

At night in your barracks, they ply you with tracts and booklets that show how unbiblical the Catholic religion is. They recite their version of the history of the Church and try to convince you that Catholicism is essentially pagan or blasphemous—and guilty of outright idolatry.

Now, bear in mind, you’re young—and you weren’t well-schooled in the catechism and Catholic apologetics when you were growing up. So you listen to the seemingly plausible arguments of the anti-Catholics . . . you stare blankly at your MRE . . . and you wonder if there are any answers to these attacks on your faith.

Out of loyalty, you try your best to defend the beliefs, practices, and traditions that the Fundamentalists are targeting. But to no avail—because you’re not equipped to defend the faith against such attacks.

Then, before you know it, you start to doubt the Catholic faith. You start reading the tracts and books that your buddy in the foxhole gave you. You even begin attending Protestant Bible studies. And then their church services. You discover that they’re really nice people, and they truly love the Lord.

Before you know it, you’re renouncing your Catholic faith and saying, “I used to be Catholic, but then I studied the Bible, and now I’m Christian!”

This happens every day among our armed forces.

The anti-Catholic zealots “target” **the poorly-catechized **Catholic troops they’re stationed with—and “save” them for the Lord by getting them to abandon Catholicism.

Yes, they mean well. They think they’re doing the right thing. But you and I know better.

The fact remains that Catholic soldiers—all over the globe—are on the defense against the slick, well-rehearsed, and well-organized propaganda machine of Protestant Fundamentalism.

But not anymore—not if I can help it.

You see, a high proportion (over 25%) of our troops are Catholics. Most are young and not well educated in the faith, so they are easy targets for the propaganda of anti-Catholic zealots.

Whether on a ship, on base, or in a foxhole, these troops are a captive audience for the Fundamentalists, who are encouraged by their own chaplains to evangelize Catholics and recruit them for Protestant Bible studies. Protestant chaplains have even been known to hand out Jack Chick publications—the worst anti-Catholic propaganda of all.

Well, a few years ago, we decided to do something about this problem.

We had been contacted by hundreds of Catholic chaplains and personnel from all branches of the military. They told us numerous stories of how bad anti-Catholic proselytizing is in the U.S. military.

Knowing that our troops simply need the basic truths of the Catholic faith, we felt that we should send FREE copies of our most powerful defensive weapon—Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth to Catholic chaplains as well as to any servicemen who contacted us for help.

We’ve sent tens of thousands of copies of Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth (and our other material) to troops all over the world.

Unfortunately, it’s not cheap to do that.

Today I ask your help so we can continue sending Pillar and our other material to our troops—because the need is greater than ever.

Would you be able to make a pledge of $15.00 a month or more? Click the link below.

That’s why I’m hoping you’ll commit to an automatic monthly donation of $15 . . . $25 . . . or perhaps $35 or more so that we can continue to ship our material to Catholic men and women in uniform—and help them defend their Catholic faith against attacks from the anti-Catholics.

Your monthly support of this project could be as little as 50 cents or a dollar a day. But it will be priceless to the troops who receive our material and then remain in the Catholic faith.

Click below to start your monthly pledge and help save the faith of thousands of young soldiers.

Monthly donations are vital to the ongoing success of this project—and to the “spiritual sustenance” of our Catholic troops. I wish I had space to share with you all the thank-you letters we receive from the troops themselves—as well as from Catholic chaplains who are seeking good material.

Here’s how one Catholic chaplain summed it up:

“When the American populace supports its troops who are putting their lives on the line, it speaks volumes.”

So true.

Along with an outpouring of prayer, this is probably the best thing you can do to support our Catholic troops right now.

They’re putting their lives at risk. They shouldn’t have to put their faith at risk, too.

May your donation—and your prayers—help bring them home safely and keep them in the Church.

Sincerely in Christ,

Karl Keating

P.S. I can’t emphasize it enough: Catholics in the military are in danger.

That’s why we must continue to help them—every month—by shipping Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth (and all our other Catholic apologetics material) to them for free.

Your monthly donations will help make that happen. Thank you, and God bless.

A couple of things. When I first arrived here - I had my say and people accused me of not being catholic - one of these drive by evangelicals - etc. They doubted me indicating that I could not have been so poorly-catechized - something I never even heard before (catechized). Well now this. An email from Mr. Keating basically stateing everything/point I was trying to make.

Abouit 10 or 11 years ago when I would have considered myself “catholic” I went to a JW Thurs. night meeting (trying to refute his claims is what lead me to read the bible and hence be BornAgain) and they had the entire evening devoted to “overcoming barriers” how to sercumnavigate if someone at the dorr says this, or that, or this other thing…then whole night.

I thought to myself - why arn’t we praising and worshiping God and Jesus? Instead we are learning “sales tactics”.

IMHO I see allot the same in this email.

Over 1 billions Catholics and how many are going to get into Heaven?

Guys - something doesn’t work within catholisim. People are brought up and raised catholic only to leave - only to commit horendous autrocities…

I belive cause the endwelling Spirit - the one they claim to possess - is not within them. How could it be. Is the HS that inept?

Just something to think about guys. Catholisim is missing something. Truth.

It talks more about staying in the Catholic church than about Jesus (yes I understand that to the RCC faith it is one and the same). It isn’t. Just because someone claims something doesn’t mean it is true. How could the eurchrist be so inept. People partaking of it weekly - some daily - all to be sinners in the worst degree (unjudgemental).

Jesus said look at the fruit. He didn’t say look at the “good” fruit. Look at all the fruit.

I truly will pray for each and everyone of your souls today. That you would yourselved ask God to illuminate your heart to his word. Not judging and I said this before - I would love to be wrong so that I go to hell and all the billion plus go to heaven. But I fear I am not. Satan is clever. Yes I will be carefull. Please each one of you that I have come to know - please, please put your faith in Jesus. Read the Bible outside church teaching. Just because some ECF supposedly said something does not make it true.

In answer to a question possed to me some time ago - how could someone taught by the Apostle John be so far fromn the truth?.. because of his flesh, his adamic sin nature. I do love you all. Not trying to start a fight. I have given RCC every opportunity to prove itself. IMHO - it does the exact opposite. It exposes itself.

I pray for my mother, father, all my relatives that they may be saved.

Guys - something doesn’t work within catholisim. People are brought up and raised catholic only to leave - only to commit horendous autrocities…

I belive cause the endwelling Spirit - the one they claim to possess - is not within them. How could it be. Is the HS that inept?

Just something to think about guys. Catholisim is missing something. Truth.

It talks more about staying in the Catholic church than about Jesus (yes I understand that to the RCC faith it is one and the same). It isn’t. Just because someone claims something doesn’t mean it is true. How could the eurchrist be so inept. People partaking of it weekly - some daily - all to be sinners in the worst degree (unjudgemental).

Jesus said look at the fruit. He didn’t say look at the “good” fruit. Look at all the fruit.

I truly will pray for each and everyone of your souls today. That you would yourselved ask God to illuminate your heart to his word. Not judging and I said this before - I would love to be wrong so that I go to hell and all the billion plus go to heaven. But I fear I am not. Satan is clever. Yes I will be carefull. Please each one of you that I have come to know - please, please put your faith in Jesus. Read the Bible outside church teaching. Just because some ECF supposedly said something does not make it true.

In answer to a question possed to me some time ago - how could someone taught by the Apostle John be so far fromn the truth?.. because of his flesh, his adamic sin nature. I do love you all. Not trying to start a fight. I have given RCC every opportunity to prove itself. IMHO - it does the exact opposite. It exposes itself.

I pray for my mother, father, all my relatives that they may be saved.

Amen.

Malachi, I’ve seen your posts here and honestly, I think this is beneath you. So Catholicism is wrong because people turn away from it? And you must be the evidence of this self-fulfilling argument when you turned away from the Church? How about Baptists? Your profile says you were once Baptist but now you are an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. Is the Baptist affiliation truth-less because you yourself turned away from them?

Please don’t misunderstand. I don’t intend this to be a personal attack on your faith journey and my apologies if it comes across as such. It’s just simplistic to say that Catholicism is untrue because some people turn away from it. Some people turn away from bible Christianity to become porn stars, or occultists, or any number of insidious things. That doesn’t detract from the truth that the bible contains, any more than a poorly catechised ex-Catholic detracts from the Truth of Christ’s Church.

Jesus said many are called but few are chosen. Those who are strong in the faith should support and bolster those who are not. Karl Keatings appeal is simply that there are some who are not strong and are being picked off by well-intentioned people who repeat (often unknowingly) half-truths and outright lies. He seeks to support the TRUTH of the Church that Jesus Christ founded.

Further, Karl Keating does not represent the Catholic Church. I believe he is doing the Lord’s work, but judging the whole of the church based on his ministry is a bit narrow minded. You are right, in that we believe keeping these soldiers close to the church keeps them close to Jesus, so in that regard Karl’s efforts should be applauded.

I fail to see what was ‘exposed’ about the church when the members of the body of Christ work to keep unity within the church. It’s a good thing to do, and brings glory to God, IMHO. Division within the church was preached against in the bible, but you seem to rejoice in it, and I don’t understand why.

Keep praying for your family (and for all), that they may be saved, as that is a good and worthy excercise. I will do the same for you.

-Peace

Oops! Misread your profile (saw baptised, read Baptist). At any rate, my point remains the same about turning away from the Church.

A couple of things. When I first arrived here - I had my say and people accused me of not being catholic - one of these drive by evangelicals - etc. They doubted me indicating that I could not have been so poorly-catechized - something I never even heard before (catechized). Well now this. An email from Mr. Keating basically stateing everything/point I was trying to make

.And we have all been as patient as possible trying to correct the misconceptions of the Catholic faith that you labor under.

Abouit 10 or 11 years ago when I would have considered myself “catholic” I went to a JW Thurs. night meeting (trying to refute his claims is what lead me to read the bible and hence be BornAgain) and they had the entire evening devoted to “overcoming barriers” how to sercumnavigate if someone at the dorr says this, or that, or this other thing…then whole night.

How is this relevant? All it does is show the tactics that they ply on anyone they talk to. They never get that chance with me because I focus on the deity of Jesus and the Holy Trinity and they have no answers for me and leave.:shrug:

I thought to myself - why arn’t we praising and worshiping God and Jesus? Instead we are learning “sales tactics”.

IMHO I see allot the same in this email.

This is (IMO) just another example of the same thing that you have been doing here at CAF on a regular basis. I have responded to many of your threads where you bring up some Catholic writing or teaching and then proceed to attack your personal spin on it. You have done it so many times it’s a consistent “tactic” of yours, much the same as you have alleged against those JWs and Karl’s appeal.

Basically, you read what you want into it instead of taking it at face value. The appeal means precisely just what it says…and nothing more.

Over 1 billions Catholics and how many are going to get into Heaven?

I don’t know…and neither do you and neither does anyone else except God Himself. I was just thinking about that the other day and the following passage of the New Testament came to mind. “13 Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. 14 How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!” (Matthew 7)

Guys - something doesn’t work within Catholicism. People are brought up and raised Catholic only to leave - only to commit horendous autrocities.

This is specious propaganda.

You infer that these are problems unique to Catholicism but that is nothing more than a rash generalization as well as a total non-sequiture argument because the appeal has nothing to do with this statement.

In fact your own post illustrates Karl’s point better than he could have done because you are doing precisely what he says that our Catholic troops experience. In fact…you’re a prize winning example of the result he speaks of.

Specious arguments and misinformation and intentionally anti-Catholic attacks targeted at Catholics. As one who corresponds with Catholics in prison ministry, this is exactly the same thing that happens to my guys. I get letters saying, “Hey, the n-C chaplain said…or this guy said…” and they want to know what the straight dope is and how to respond. I personally applaud Karl’s project and wish someone would do the same for every Catholic prisoner in the U.S.

I belive cause the endwelling Spirit - the one they claim to possess - is not within them. How could it be. Is the HS that inept?

This is a specious argument. I could do the very same thing to most of the young evangelicals that I meet because they are every bit as poorly catechized as any of the Catholics that I know. I don’t…because I don’t believe in sheep stealing unless the person expresses a sincere interest in our most holy faith. That’s how I know that the Holy Spirit is leading them…and me.

Just something to think about guys. Catholicism is missing something. Truth.

Not so, and I’ve shown that in my responses to your own posts many many times already…and I’m not the only one here.
(Cont’d)

It talks more about staying in the Catholic church than about Jesus (yes I understand that to the RCC faith it is one and the same). It isn’t

. Just because someone claims something doesn’t mean it is true.Bunk! You would be quick to offer counter arguments to someone who was being proselytized by Mormons or JWs and yet you fault Catholics for seeking to insure that our servicemen are as well protected from the various heretical errors (and yes I said that, because it’s true!) of the modern post reformation fundamentalist step children. if had the least doubt in the truth of the Catholic faith, I wouldn’t BE Catholic to begin with! :mad: Get this through your head MaS…I’ve been what you are and I reject it for the fundamental reason that I studied all sides of the doctrines in questions and found n-C teachings wanting BIGTIME! Now I am committed to doing all I can to prevent other Catholics from being deceived like I was for so long.

How could the Eucharist

be so inept. People partaking of it weekly - some daily - all to be sinners in the worst degree (unjudgemental).Again… this is a specious argument using a rash generalization, and I can prove it simply by asking you to prove which of us faithful Catholics here at CAf you can indict of being “sinners in the worst degree”? You can’t.

You may know some. But the truth is that you do not move anywhere among faithful Catholic circles and so your statement fails terribly as nothing more than judgmental rhetoric meant to indict the faith of Catholics. It doesn’t wash…and in fact it makes you look like some kind of anti-Catholic jerk to even see you post it.

Jesus said look at the fruit. He didn’t say look at the “good” fruit. Look at all the fruit.

Twisted what Christ said to suit your specious argument. We here at CAF are “fruit”…now say something more.:mad:

I truly will pray for each and everyone of your souls today.

Even as I and my Catholic brothers and sisters have not failed to do for you since we met you here.

That you would yourselved ask God to illuminate your heart to his word.

I have, He did, and (Get this through your head!) **that is precisely why I am Catholic!
**

Not judging and I said this before - I would love to be wrong so that I go to hell and all the billion plus go to heaven. But I fear I am not.

You may well get your wish…because you are wrong. You have been here a long time and have yet to offer one thing that has not been well and truly answered by myself and my Catholic brothers and sisters here. One gets the distinct impression that you aren’t sincere in your discussions since you persist in attacking our faith and make remarks like this misbegotten post.

Satan is clever.

Yeah, he is… look at the way he fights against our most holy faith.

You seek to imply that we Catholics are deceived, but even when we show you where you have been misled you fail to consider that you might very well be the one who is deceived by crafty teachings of men. :ehh:

Yes I will be carefull. Please each one of you that I have come to know - please, please put your faith in Jesus. Read the Bible outside church teaching. Just because some ECF supposedly said something does not make it true.

My faith IS in Jesus! How many times does a Catholic have to tell you that for it to begin to sink in and for you to realize that from the very fundamental cornerstone of your belief system you have been misled away from Biblical teachings. Let go of your security blanket MaS and let the Holy Spirit show you the truth.
(Cont’d)

In answer to a question possed to me some time ago - how could someone taught by the Apostle John be so far from the truth?.. because of his flesh, his adamic sin nature.

If that were the only source of teaching that the Eucharist (Suspecting that this is what you refer to) is based upon then you might have a case, but your argument has been soundly refuted time and again with the word of God.(The Eucharist IS Scriptural), which means that if your argument is true then St. Paul taught error in his letters.

I do love you all. Not trying to start a fight. I have given RCC every opportunity to prove itself. IMHO - it does the exact opposite. It exposes itself.

It’s hard to tell when you make these kind of remarks and try to sugar coat your essential message that we are deceived and not Christians. And anyone with an IQ higher than a pebble can look at your remarks and see that what I say is true.

Professions of love for us are just empty words on a screen when someone makes the kind of deceptive and unfounded generalizations against us that you have just now. You expect us to believe you?:dts:

I pray for my mother, father, all my relatives that they may be saved.

That’s nice. I suggest that you begin praying that the Holy Spirit pry your unscriptural security from your fist and that you finally have the courage to test all things and prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1st Thessalonians 5:21)
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

If that were the only source of teaching that the Eucharist (Suspecting that this is what you refer to) is based upon then you might have a case, but your argument has been soundly refuted time and again with the word of God.(The Eucharist IS Scriptural), which means that if your argument is true then St. Paul taught error in his letters.It’s hard to tell when you make these kind of remarks and try to sugar coat your essential message that we are deceived and not Christians. And anyone with an IQ higher than a pebble can look at your remarks and see that what I say is true.

Professions of love for us are just empty words on a screen when someone makes the kind of deceptive and unfounded generalizations against us that you have just now. You expect us to believe you?:dts:

That’s nice. I suggest that you begin praying that the Holy Spirit pry your unscriptural security from your fist and that you finally have the courage to test all things and prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1st Thessalonians 5:21)
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

Hi CM. My point being is that IMHO - the RCC represented here at atholic Answers - is not the RCC “out there” down the street at the local parish. 1 Billion or so catholics yet - as it has been determined - the catholics in my circle could be but considered just nice secular people.

Asside from all that though. I find “living for Christ” is what we should be doing. As in Eccle. “Fear God and keep his commands”. I see too much leeway(sp?) in catholisim. Do this, this, this and that…that is all that is required to be a “catholic” thyen the rest of the time live in the world. CVlimb the corp. ladder, accumulate possessions, etc… I am trying not to generalize but do not know how else to do it. How can anyone compete when their religion tells them they are the true church with the only proper interpritation of scripture, with the only means of dispersing God’s grace…etc… One is hopelessly tied into an inability to see past that.

I guess this is where I am at. Is Catholisim cvhristian? Well it’s members definiately are trying their best to do what they think God wants. Are they reborn. I do not believe so. Just my HO but I cannot see the HS being so weak… This goes beyond OSAS cause I do believe their are good arguments for both sides their.

My opinion - instead of coming up with a man made plan to fight off fundamentalist converting catholics - why not ask everyone to pray for God’s will and trust that he will move people’s hearts to do what he wants them to do (i.e. donate, go to missionary field, write a book) We all know we are not fightinh with flesh but with the spirit world. Jesus released us from the Jewish law. Yet Catholisim adds their own laws to it. Hense we are not free from the law (must attend Mass, etc…etc…). Anyhow, we all know that we both cannot be right. We all know that one of us is wrong. You do what you do because you believe it to be correct. I respect that. That is the same reason I do what I do. I believe other catholics experience the same thing and need to know.

eg. What would be a more sincere declaration of Faith. Someone who (thinbks) they experienced a Rebirth @ lets say 17yrs of age and commits their life to Christ - to have expected fruit follow (no worldliness, no lust of the flesh…etc…) only to stumble into sin occaisionally and repent.

Or because you are 12. This is when you “dedicate your life to Christ”. It is a step. One of the requiored steps. So, go ahead - dedicate…

Again, I do appreciate all your patience etc . to those I offend I mean not. If I am not doing God’s will I pray that I will but I do beliueve this is God’s will.

How do you confince a JW they are not in the truth? Only an act of God - the HS.

How do you confince a catholic they are not in the truth? Yes, yes,…how do you convinced a Born Again Independant Fundamentalo Baptist that they are not in the truth. Yes all of these can be used for me… yet I know I have Christ living in me. I know I would die for him. I know I am not ashamed of him. I know nothing else matters.

Hi CM. My point being is that IMHO - the RCC represented here at atholic Answers - is not the RCC “out there” down the street at the local parish. 1 Billion or so catholics yet - as it has been determined - the catholics in my circle could be but considered just nice secular people.

Asside from all that though. I find “living for Christ” is what we should be doing. As in Eccle. “Fear God and keep his commands”. I see too much leeway(sp?) in catholisim. Do this, this, this and that…that is all that is required to be a “catholic” thyen the rest of the time live in the world. CVlimb the corp. ladder, accumulate possessions, etc… I am trying not to generalize but do not know how else to do it. How can anyone compete when their religion tells them they are the true church with the only proper interpritation of scripture, with the only means of dispersing God’s grace…etc… One is hopelessly tied into an inability to see past that.

I guess this is where I am at. Is Catholisim cvhristian? Well it’s members definiately are trying their best to do what they think God wants. Are they reborn. I do not believe so. Just my HO but I cannot see the HS being so weak… This goes beyond OSAS cause I do believe their are good arguments for both sides their.

My opinion - instead of coming up with a man made plan to fight off fundamentalist converting catholics - why not ask everyone to pray for God’s will and trust that he will move people’s hearts to do what he wants them to do (i.e. donate, go to missionary field, write a book) We all know we are not fightinh with flesh but with the spirit world. Jesus released us from the Jewish law. Yet Catholisim adds their own laws to it. Hense we are not free from the law (must attend Mass, etc…etc…). Anyhow, we all know that we both cannot be right. We all know that one of us is wrong. You do what you do because you believe it to be correct. I respect that. That is the same reason I do what I do. I believe other catholics experience the same thing and need to know.

eg. What would be a more sincere declaration of Faith. Someone who (thinbks) they experienced a Rebirth @ lets say 17yrs of age and commits their life to Christ - to have expected fruit follow (no worldliness, no lust of the flesh…etc…) only to stumble into sin occaisionally and repent.

Or because you are 12. This is when you “dedicate your life to Christ”. It is a step. One of the requiored steps. So, go ahead - dedicate…

Again, I do appreciate all your patience etc . to those I offend I mean not. If I am not doing God’s will I pray that I will but I do beliueve this is God’s will.

How do you confince a JW they are not in the truth? Only an act of God - the HS.

How do you confince a catholic they are not in the truth? Yes, yes,…how do you convinced a Born Again Independant Fundamentalo Baptist that they are not in the truth. Yes all of these can be used for me… yet I know I have Christ living in me. I know I would die for him. I know I am not ashamed of him. I know nothing else matters.

What happens to your grammar and spelling, malachi, are you copying somebody’s style ?

Hi CM. My point being is that IMHO - the RCC represented here at Catholic Answers - is not the RCC “out there” down the street at the local parish

. 1 Billion or so catholics yet - as it has been determined - Oh, but we are! Where do you think we are posting from CA’s headquarters in San Diego?:rolleyes:

the catholics in my circle could be but considered just nice secular people.

A very small representation and nowhere indicative of the generalization that you have asserted.

Asside from all that though. I find “living for Christ” is what we should be doing. As in Eccle. “Fear God and keep his commands”.

Well duh…what do ya think we’re doing?:rolleyes:

I see too much leeway(sp?) in catholisim. Do this, this, this and that…that is all that is required to be a “catholic” thyen the rest of the time live in the world. CVlimb the corp. ladder, accumulate possessions, etc…

Another completely inaccurate misrepresentation of Catholic belief and practice, further displaying the very errors of belief that you continue to attempt to refute. IOW, it’d help a great deal if you actually listened to us as to what we believe instead of all your n-C thinking? :yup:

I am trying not to generalize but do not know how else to do it. How can anyone compete when their religion tells them they are the true church with the only proper interpritation of scripture, with the only means of dispersing God’s grace…etc… One is hopelessly tied into an inability to see past that.

I don’t need anything but the Word of God to disprove your belief here. You try to tell me that the Bible is your sole authority (even when you do not rely on the Word, but upon the interpretations of men) and yet the Bible nowhere teaches such an authority. I’ve looked diligently…it’s just not there.

I guess this is where I am at. Is Catholisim cvhristian? Well it’s members definiately are trying their best to do what they think God wants. Are they reborn. I do not believe so. Just my HO but I cannot see the HS being so weak. This goes beyond OSAS cause I do believe their are good arguments for both sides their.

Catholicism is the original New Testament Christianity. Both the New Testament and the history of Christianity show it.

The Holy Spirit is not weak…the errant new winds of doctrine of the modern post reformation step children is the pervasive problem.

My opinion - instead of coming up with a man made plan to fight off fundamentalist converting catholics - why not ask everyone to pray for God’s will and trust that he will move people’s hearts to do what he wants them to do (i.e. donate, go to missionary field, write a book)

So… you wouldn’t feel the need to take action to prevent Mormons or JWs or Muslims from proselytizing n-C soldiers? Yeah…right.

We all know we are not fightinh with flesh but with the spirit world.

Yeah… i think we Catholics are well aware of that.:rolleyes:

Jesus released us from the Jewish law. Yet Catholisim adds their own laws to it. Hense we are not free from the law (must attend Mass, etc…etc…).

Again, we see that you have no decent understanding of Catholic teaching. It would be a real problem for us if what you just said was true. It’s not.

Anyhow, we all know that we both cannot be right. We all know that one of us is wrong. You do what you do because you believe it to be correct. I respect that. That is the same reason I do what I do. I believe other catholics experience the same thing and need to know.

Yeah…you got that right. Again…which is exactly WHY I am a Catholic. However, just as you have seen, Catholics really do have very valid answers to all your propaganda and they are logical and Biblically accurate. You have not refuted any of them. In fact, of late most of your posts have been manifestos of things that have almost nothing to do with actual Catholic teachings but obscure historical idiosyncrasies.

What would be a more sincere declaration of Faith.

Someone who (thinbks) they experienced a Rebirth @ lets say 17yrs of age and commits their life to Christ - to have expected fruit follow (no worldliness, no lust of the flesh…etc…) only to stumble into sin occaisionally and repent.

Or because you are 12. This is when you “dedicate your life to Christ”. It is a step. One of the requiored steps. So, go ahead - dedicate.Who are you to judge? How can you even attempt to say that you know who is sincere or authentic and who is not?
(Cont’d)

Again, I do appreciate all your patience etc . to those I offend I mean not. If I am not doing God’s will I pray that I will but I do beliueve this is God’s will.

Many times in my n-C past I heard preachers say that people may be sincerely wrong. Are you saying that you cannot possibly be functioning in your carnal and egotistical nature in your dealings with us here?

How do you confince a catholic they are not in the truth? Yes, yes,…how do you convinced a Born Again Independant Fundamentalo Baptist that they are not in the truth.

Certainly not by sitting there at your keyboard alleging tings that are not true about someone else’s religion.

You may think this is what God wants you to do, but you could be wrong. You’re wrong a lot right here at CAF.

Yes all of these can be used for me… yet I know I have Christ living in me. I know I would die for him. I know I am not ashamed of him. I know nothing else matters.

What happens to your grammar and spelling, malachi, are you copying somebody’s style ?

Please explain this to me as I do not understand it at all? Whose style? I just shake my head. I typed allot - allot fast - usually I cut and paste into a “word” document to spell check than once completed I cut and paste back into the thread. I realize there is a spell check on this - however I use dial up and everytime I try that it screws up my posting. Anyway, your point being?

Please explain this to me as I do not understand it at all? Whose style? I just shake my head. I typed allot - allot fast - usually I cut and paste into a “word” document to spell check than once completed I cut and paste back into the thread. I realize there is a spell check on this - however I use dial up and everytime I try that it screws up my posting. Anyway, your point being?

Never mind if you have not noticed it. It’s okay , that’s not important !

:yup:I don’t need anything but the Word of God to disprove your belief here. You try to tell me that the Bible is your sole authority (even when you do not rely on the Word, but upon the interpretations of men) and yet the Bible nowhere teaches such an authority. I’ve looked diligently…it’s just not there.]

I know you know the scriptures. I will quote but you will not SEE whaty I see.

2 Tim 315-17: " And that from a child you have know the holy scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoughly furnished to all good works."

Your honor I rest my case.

We do not need to debate - cause I know you and others do not agree.

All my posts lately show fruit - allot of bad fruit that no matter “what” explaination is given, or comes etc. is just that an explanation. Should God’s fruit need explaining? Or should it just be evident? Rhretorical.

Oh I forgot to finish what I was saying about the word spell check. I usually do that - but in that post I didn’t. I still do not see the relavance. I type 43 words per minute with twop fingures and 3 mistakes which I am told = 40 words per minute (net and two fingers). Please forgive all my spelling mistakes.

Hi CM. My point being is that IMHO - the RCC represented here at atholic Answers - is not the RCC “out there” down the street at the local parish. 1 Billion or so catholics yet - as it has been determined - the catholics in my circle could be but considered just nice secular people.

You are scandalized by the fact that there are so many Catholics who don’t ‘get it’. They’ve gone through the rituals prescribed by the church, and yet their hearts don’t seem to be turned toward the Lord, as you have done with your life. I understand. But really, what would you have us do, turn them away from the door? And what would be the litmus test? Do you have the insight to judge their hearts to see if they’ve truly accepted God’s Word?

malachi_a_serva:

Asside from all that though. I find “living for Christ” is what we should be doing. As in Eccle. “Fear God and keep his commands”. I see too much leeway(sp?) in catholisim. Do this, this, this and that…that is all that is required to be a “catholic” thyen the rest of the time live in the world. CVlimb the corp. ladder, accumulate possessions, etc… I am trying not to generalize but do not know how else to do it. How can anyone compete when their religion tells them they are the true church with the only proper interpritation of scripture, with the only means of dispersing God’s grace…etc… One is hopelessly tied into an inability to see past that.

You have a narrow view of Catholicism based on only the people you know. I’m guessing the Catholics you know are a tiny fraction of the 1 billion out there. As an active member of my parish, I see SO many people serving the poor, the sick, orphans, widows (and widowers), homeless, hungry, prisoners, addicts, the truly lost and the truly desperate. They devote themselves in prayer and adoration, serve willingly and dedicate their lives to JESUS in so many ways. Sure, some are less than stellar (I have been among that number myself), but we all encourage each other to be better Christians thorugh our communion.

You, however, have totally rejected that communion based on your own interpretations. Jesus spoke of the weeds and the wheat. He did NOT say “yea and therefore the wheat shall uproot themselves and go to a different part of the garden, never to associate themselves with the weeds except to try to get them to turn away from their weedy ways…” He said the owner will have his servants pluck the weeds and dispose of them. With your love of the Lord, how much good could you have done had you chosen to stay with the Church?

malachi_a_serva:

I guess this is where I am at. Is Catholisim cvhristian? Well it’s members definiately are trying their best to do what they think God wants. Are they reborn. I do not believe so. Just my HO but I cannot see the HS being so weak… This goes beyond OSAS cause I do believe their are good arguments for both sides their.

With all due charity, you are not qualified to judge. You have eyes but you do not see the Holy Spirit working in the church. I pray it is revealed to you (and all).

malachi_a_serva:

My opinion - instead of coming up with a man made plan to fight off fundamentalist converting catholics - why not ask everyone to pray for God’s will and trust that he will move people’s hearts to do what he wants them to do (i.e. donate, go to missionary field, write a book) We all know we are not fightinh with flesh but with the spirit world. Jesus released us from the Jewish law. Yet Catholisim adds their own laws to it. Hense we are not free from the law (must attend Mass, etc…etc…).

Your use of the term “man made plan” did not go unnoticed. Is everything man-made wrong (i.e. part of the traditions of men we were to avoid)? I don’t think so, and as you recognize God can inspire men to do his work (go to missionary field, write a book), then neither do you. Just as a missionary participates in God’s calling to the unchurched to ‘move their hearts and do what he wants them to do’, so Karl is participating in the call to ‘hold fast to the traditions that they were taught’. (paraphrasing 2 Thess 2:15

Anyhow, we all know that we both cannot be right. We all know that one of us is wrong. You do what you do because you believe it to be correct. I respect that. That is the same reason I do what I do. I believe other catholics experience the same thing and need to know.

eg. What would be a more sincere declaration of Faith. Someone who (thinbks) they experienced a Rebirth @ lets say 17yrs of age and commits their life to Christ - to have expected fruit follow (no worldliness, no lust of the flesh…etc…) only to stumble into sin occaisionally and repent.

Or because you are 12. This is when you “dedicate your life to Christ”. It is a step. One of the requiored steps. So, go ahead - dedicate…

Again, I do appreciate all your patience etc . to those I offend I mean not. If I am not doing God’s will I pray that I will but I do beliueve this is God’s will.

How do you confince a JW they are not in the truth? Only an act of God - the HS.

How do you confince a catholic they are not in the truth? Yes, yes,…how do you convinced a Born Again Independant Fundamentalo Baptist that they are not in the truth. Yes all of these can be used for me… yet I know I have Christ living in me. I know I would die for him. I know I am not ashamed of him. I know nothing else matters.

Again, you are not qualified to judge who’s dedication of their life to Christ is more genuine. Are you saying ALL Confirmations are forced upon immature participants, who only do it because they are required to? Balderdash. Are you also saying that the ‘rebirth’ of all 17 yr olds in the Baptist faith are 100% sincere and in no way pressured? Again, balderdash. I’ve seen the fruits of more than a few that would make me assume otherwise.

I don’t question your dedication to Christ. But you artificially separate yourself from others based on an unwillingness to associate with the less-than-perfect. I don’t think that was Christ’s example. Only God could build a perfect Church from imperfect people. It’s a shame you reject that Church and turn to your own interpretations. I applaud Karl Keating for imploring others not to follow that path.

I know you know the scriptures. I will quote but you will not SEE whaty I see.

2 Tim 315-17: " And that from a child you have know the holy scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus

. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoughly furnished to all good works."

Your honor I rest my case. ;)Objection: witness presents a conclusion not in evidence. How is “profitable” equal to all sufficient? Like I said…it’s just not there.

We do not need to debate - cause I know you and others do not agree.

But you persist…:shrug:

All my posts lately show fruit - allot of bad fruit that no matter “what” explaination is given, or comes etc. is just that an explanation. Should God’s fruit need explaining? Or should it just be evident? Rhretorical.

You presume (probably because you want to believe so) that it is bearing fruit and that the fruit is God’s.

There isn’t a whole lot of Bible study going on in the barracks at night. In fact, religion just isn’t that important to the average soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine.

If I were Catholic, I certainly wouldn’t want me son leaving the faith but I think I would be more worried about the bad influences that military life seems to encourage.

I wonder if there is more danger to their faith in the poor moral climate they will find themselves in than being lured away from their faith by non-Catholics.Are you speaking from personal experience Calvinator?