Tie game, about 40 seconds left int he 4th Quarter. It's 3rd and 4 and you have the ball on your own 23 yard line. The other team has one time out.

Do you risk stopping the clock with a pass play? Or do you run and hope to get the first down (or to just simply keep from committing a turnover) knowing that you can either run down the clock or force the other team to call its final time out?

The Lions threw an incomplete pass which stopped the clock, allowing Cincinnati to save its final time out for the last drive. I can't say that if Cincinnati had been forced to call the time out that they would not have gotten into field goal position and put it through the uprights, but the decision to pass and not run seemed like a really bad call.

When I was watching the game, I was thinking to myself, "run the ball, eat the clock."

October 20th, 2013, 10:19 pm

Killwill25

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:42 pmPosts: 2422Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

Growler I understand and I agree with you but I still think I would've tried to get the first down. Our QB gets paid big money for those situations. If you have what you feel is an elite QB(and Staff certainly gets paid like one), you should be confident in making that call. Last year in the Colts game we were in the same situation and ran the ball on third to kill clock and we lost that one too. I'm OK with the call, but that was a greatly timed CB Blitz that we should've seen coming.

In those situations you should want the ball in your leaders hands. I doubt McCarthy, Bellicheck, Fox, or Pagano would've ran the ball in that situation. 3rd & 4 with two time outs and 40 seconds I feel was plenty opportunity for us to work a 40-50 yrd FG try. With CJ, you are always 1 play away even if it's just tossing it deep and getting a PI flag(Though I don't think those refs really know that is).

_________________Just one Super Bowl win before I go!

October 21st, 2013, 1:13 am

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5021Location: WSU

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

was it disastrous? yes

was it the right call? i think it was.

Lions tried to win a tie game instead of trying to play for OT, they were hitting some big plays in the pass game and worst case scenario you have a punter who can flip the field, only he didnt not even close.

If the coaching staff didn't trust our O to try and win the game, or our ST or D to force overtime if the O didn't succeed, then I would be more worried.

it was the right call. The events that followed were lack of execution from the players. I've no issue with the coaches on that one.

Running Bell on two draws, with his injured ribs, just before half time I have problems with, though! Kneel or throw and use the time outs.

October 21st, 2013, 6:31 am

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2871

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

Same thing happened when Stanton was QB in a game against the Jets in 2010. That's the thing: we don't learn from our mistakes.

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell

The only mistake was that Stafford should have scrambled forward or just taken a sack if he didn't have a sure thing.

October 21st, 2013, 10:50 am

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4212Location: Davison Mi

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

if you are going to complain about coaching, make sure you throw in the lack of screen plays. they've been a huge part of our offense this season, and yet were strangly absent in almost the entire 2nd half of the game. thats a bit of a head scratcher IMO, when Bush is soooooo good at em.

if you are going to complain about coaching, make sure you throw in the lack of screen plays. they've been a huge part of our offense this season, and yet were strangly absent in almost the entire 2nd half of the game. thats a bit of a head scratcher IMO, when Bush is soooooo good at em.

It may have been something they avoided because of how good Cincy's LBs have been playing. Throwing a screen at a team so good at reacting in space would almost always lead to a loss of yardage. I'm not sure how good Cincy is against the screen, but considering how well there 4 man front is at stopping the run/eating up blockers. I would have to assume those LBs have a pretty easy time out there.

October 21st, 2013, 1:44 pm

njroar

Team MVP

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 3265

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

When that's not called, it's a disastrous outing by the refs on that play. Not a bad coaching decision.

October 21st, 2013, 2:04 pm

LionsAllDay

National Champion

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 890

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

Instead of questioning why we passed on this play, why is no one demanding an answer to why we pass on 3rd and 4 in a tie game with 40 sec left and don't pass with the same amount of time and a timeout before halftime? There is NO difference. It's bad coaching. If you don't go for it before half, don't go for it at the end...

October 21st, 2013, 2:41 pm

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4212Location: Davison Mi

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

Shotty wrote:

Instead of questioning why we passed on this play, why is no one demanding an answer to why we pass on 3rd and 4 in a tie game with 40 sec left and don't pass with the same amount of time and a timeout before halftime? There is NO difference. It's bad coaching. If you don't go for it before half, don't go for it at the end...

thats actually a VERY good point...and not the first time they've waisted 40+ seconds before the 1/2 ended.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

October 21st, 2013, 2:50 pm

LionsAllDay

National Champion

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 890

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

regularjoe12 wrote:

Shotty wrote:

Instead of questioning why we passed on this play, why is no one demanding an answer to why we pass on 3rd and 4 in a tie game with 40 sec left and don't pass with the same amount of time and a timeout before halftime? There is NO difference. It's bad coaching. If you don't go for it before half, don't go for it at the end...

thats actually a VERY good point...and not the first time they've waisted 40+ seconds before the 1/2 ended.

Yup. I'm so f'ing heated between that, Stafford overthrowing a WIDE OPEN Broyles for a TD to put us up 17-7, and having another FG blocked...

October 21st, 2013, 3:26 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

Plus we couldnt run the ball for crap in that game.

October 21st, 2013, 7:43 pm

chilledmonkeybrains

Junior Varsity

Joined: March 11th, 2010, 4:39 pmPosts: 198

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

Throw in the forward lateral on the blocked punt that was not challenged (was Schwartz afraid of Thanksgiving vs. Houston all over again?), a few no calls by refs, and a horrible punt from an otherwise awesome punter and we've got a game we should have won... AGAIN

_________________Slow is smooth, smooth is steady, steady is fast!

October 22nd, 2013, 1:01 pm

njroar

Team MVP

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 3265

Re: Disastrous Coaching Call on 3rd and 4?

chilledmonkeybrains wrote:

Throw in the forward lateral on the blocked punt that was not challenged (was Schwartz afraid of Thanksgiving vs. Houston all over again?), a few no calls by refs, and a horrible punt from an otherwise awesome punter and we've got a game we should have won... AGAIN

The lateral is discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16912 How can you challenge something the refs tell you that you can't challenge?

The refs just got themselves removed from the playoff and Super Bowl crew consideration in this game. They missed calls on both sides, but they were game changers for us. But even beyond that, there was no excuse to lose this game.

On the plus side, outside of the division, we face one more team with a winning record and that's dallas this week. Rest of the season is games that we should win.