I'm sick of all of this. Clearly, Alex Day did something. We just don't know the severity of that something, whether he pressured girls, did stuff with underaged ones, or any of the other various allegations against him.

The thing about this entire case is that it is illustrative of the problematic discussion we normally associate with sexual misconduct, and the power imbalance between the participants. You can immediately take a side, but there are more shades of gray in this case than the shitty book. You may consider the fact that a few of the allegations are anonymous, which seems suspect and may be hard to prove, but you should also consider the fact that victims are often disregarded and shamed when they come forward, especially if they accuse someone beloved by the community. You can take Alex Day's insistence upon his innocence and admission to being a prick as a sign that he didn't do it- but you may find his categorical denial, then admission, and then denial again to be suspicious and cynical.

You cannot take one side or the other. Side with the victims and you're called irrational, or you get shouted down by his fans. Side with Alex, and you're immediately called a victim-blamer (and let's be real; I have seen A LOT of victim blaming in these discussions. Cut it out, guys).

I'm sure /u/nerimon agrees with the last statement. I think with all the evidence that we, as fans, have been privy to there isn't enough for any of us to make a judgement on it. I liked his work and want him to come back, but that's probably not an option without him laying out every sorted detail and that's not really for us. We don't have to know what happened.

Alex and her were seen out together a while back, after the whole thing happened. She later explained on Twitter it was because she had questions for him that he needed to answer in person. She's confirmed they don't talk anymore. She seems happy now so I hope she doesn't have to go through more drama over this.

I understand, I'm sorry for being defensive. I just would really like her to be left alone. She's completely moved on with her life and is very visibly much happier having done so and the idea of anything getting in the way of that is troubling to me. I know she's a big girl and doesn't need me defending her, but nonetheless, I wanted to make sure that was said. She has a life beyond me and deserves to be allowed to live it.

I admire your intentions to come out of the shadows by the way, Alex. I worded that a little oddly but I mean it takes guts to appear again, I hope you're ok. I know people might slate me for caring, but fuck it. You're a decent guy, you've fucked up, so have I. So we all have in some ways. I'm glad you're still getting on with things, man x

The issue is he isn't a decent guy, I've been a fan for years and always assumed that the whole arrogant persona he put forward was more of an exaggerated character, but from everything that's come forth he just seems so pathetic and it is devastating to me that someone I admired turned out to be no more than a bona fide ass. I can't in good faith look up to or like Alex after all of what has happened and although I think people need a second chance, I think it's time to just let it go and to move on for him.

I don’t think that it is fair that /u/nerimon be allowed to gloss over all the allegations made against him. To just sweep them under the rug like they are nothing. So I am leaving this here. A summary of all the things that various young girls have alleged he has perpetuated upon them:

*Excerpt: I was coerced into having sexual contact with Alex Day. I met him when I was 17 and a fan of his videos, and after talking online for less than a month he invited me to stay over at his place. I was initially adamant that nothing would happen between us and he initially agreed, but continually expressed a disregard for that further into our interactions. Once we were sleeping in the same room (as what I thought of as “just friends”) and he woke me up by kissing me and touching me sexually. I’m going to repeat that: I was asleep, I had fallen asleep stating my desire to have no sexual contact with him, and he woke me up by violating those wishes. I know for a fact I’m not the only girl he’s done this with.

*Excerpt: I was also coerced into sex by Alex Day. He wasn’t physically abusive with me, but beyond a doubt he was emotionally manipulative. He made me feel like I was special. He told me he was single. I didn’t find out for months after that he wasn’t and had also been doing the same thing to other girls.

*Excerpt: I was targeted by him when I was fourteen/fifteen. He would organize events specifically to meet me, and found my email address without me explicitly giving it to him and would email me often. At an event (I was still fourteen) we made a video in private (which was odd seeing as everyone else made one in the main room) and he tried to be inappropriate with me but I managed to get out of the situation before it escalated.

*Excerpt: At no point in my life have I ever had a sexual relationship with someone under the age of consent. (For full disclosure, I’ve said publicly that I lost my virginity at age fourteen, but the girl in question was sixteen - the UK age of consent - so this point stands.) At no point in my life have I ever undertaken any romantic activity, sexual or otherwise, without being sure the other person wanted it.

*Excerpt: Until yesterday, I thought that I had had only appropriate, though occasionally manipulative relationships with women. However, the model of consent that I followed, not that I specifically thought about it at the time - was that only “no” meant “no.” That is not what consent is. The result of that belief that ‘only no means no’, is that I spent a long part of my life doing shitty things to good people and barely ever realizing or acknowledging that I was doing the shitty things.

*Excerpt: But please let me be clear: In the time that I knew Alex, I never had any notion that the girls he was with were anything other than happily consenting to being with him. The idea that anything contrary to that was going on behind closed doors makes me incredibly unhappy, and with that, I just don’t feel able to call Alex a friend of mine anymore. Simply put, I don’t know if I can trust him. I feel this same way about other past-friends of mine who have been accused.

*And: To those who came forward with the accusations about sexual abuse and manipulation recently, I have a massive amount of respect for you. I can’t imagine the bravery that it must have taken, and I’m glad that some of you found the strength to speak out because of others doing the same. I still do not feel a real sense of closure from all of this, and I’m sure that feeling must be vastly worse for you right now. I really do hope the resolution that you deserve comes soon.

They're free to file charges and take him to court, if they don't(and they didn't) then all these allegations prove is that Alex is human. This happens every time someone well off and popular goes around having sex, it happened with Elvis but no-one cared because tumblr(the largest "who has the biggest victim card" competition I've ever seen) didn't exist back then, and the fact that playing the victim for something that may or may not have happened is the fastest way to get attention on the internet.

This whole situation has been tough on everyone. It feels like the last few months have gone by without much productive, meaningful discussion from those involved. As an outside observer, given the information we had, I feel that I've tried to move on from this thing by ignoring it and keeping myself emotionally distant (as I suspect some of us have); and that's not necessarily the best way to handle this.

In any case, I'm holding out hope that as a community we can continue to handle this in a healthy way. Despite what you may or may not think of him, it's somewhat assuring for me to see Alex actually discussing things here. Hopefully, this can lead to something with some semblance of productive conversation from more of those involved.

This whole situation aside, I do hope for better days ahead for all of us. Even Alex. I wish you all well. Obligatory DFTBA.

Having watched his videos for a few years, I don't doubt he did some immoral things. He comes of as a bit of a prick in his videos, and anyway, he's admitted to being a prick multiple times. I think being somewhat of an emotionally abusive asshat is bad, but it's definitely forgivable. No one is perfect.

However, he's been accused of much worse than simply being an asshat. There's not really any proof though, so it's a case of he said she said. This all feels like a really shit case in Phoenix Wright, where there are two witnesses giving contradicting testimonies but no evidence to raise any objections.

Anyway, contrary to the judge in the Ace Attorney series, I'm a fan of innocent until proven guilty. If those games have taught me anything, it's that witness testimonies are very often unreliable. So I guess I'm giving Nerimon the benifit of the doubt here.

On another note, that's the first time I've heard of Charlie's behavior. It really bothers me that he didn't even bother listening to Alex's side of the story. I think when you're friends with someone, even if they do something awful, you should at least give them enough respect to let them try and explain.

On another note, that's the first time I've heard of Charlie's behavior. It really bothers me that he didn't even bother listening to Alex's side of the story. I think when you're friends with someone, even if they do something awful, you should at least give them enough respect to let them try and explain.

That said, you might want to take Alex's own advice and wait to hear Charlie's side regarding this little tidbit. I'm personally not inclined to disbelieve Alex, but that said, there's a bunch of people who think he did all this stuff to the point of probably not being 100% bandwagon, so I'm taking any new information from him with a grain of salt.

Completely agree with what you said here about Charlie. I'm sure he won't talk about this any further in public and, what's more, he shouldn't. This shouldn't be the constant back-and-forth tennis match of waiting to see what each of us says to the other's accusations, going on forever.

My experience of how Charlie handled this situation is just that; my experience. I don't know how he's feeling about it or what his thought process was. I did try to find out, but the fact remains I am uninformed. Don't go hating on the poor boy when he clearly just wants to be at peace. I only brought it up because I've been bottling it in for six months and I needed to say it somewhere, but not to attack him. It just annoys me when people use his testimony as proof of my guilt and I wanted to get people questioning that a little.

Honestly all of this has been such a shit experience for everyone involved, the fans, the emotionally abused girls, the alleged raped girls, your friends, you (most of all, unless you actually did rape someone, in which case you're kind of a wanker).

Everything is probably best left behind because a lot of people will just never want to have a rational discussion about it.

To be honest, it's hard to have a rational discussion when there really is little proof of anything. Some e-mails or facebook messages, I"m sure exist, but wouldn't be able to prove an assault/rape/manipulation. You would end up relying on peoples memories, which are skewed by emotions.

I don't think Alex will be able to come back because there is no way people can have a rational discussion about this without Alex talking about his relationships with these woman. Even if he did, it would be in bad taste and people would call him a liar.

Slightly offtopic, but I think it can be somewhat proven that he did manipulate people, as he admitted to it himself. Although it is relying on people's memories, when it is the defendant admitting to something, I'm sure we can be fairly sure.

I think part of the reason for the back lash, was the removal of tweets. Why do that? So people can't reply to them? You can still be mentioned.
And then the added fact you've dropped off the youtube...

It's one thing to say the truth, then try to.. not to say you lied but to change the truth to give favor to those that feel like you hurt them, but then when it didn't work out to not re-word or to defend your point further.

I think cheating is one thing, the abuse is another, if that was the case.
It can be hard to know what someone else wants, and the thing about being young is you may want it in the moment then come back and think it was a regret. Maybe that was the case for some of these times. If people are hounding you anyway, why not try a video on these issues? On how you feel about it all. I'm sure you still get negative comments on old videos, what would be so bad about one upcoming, and the people that listen might be nice...

Yeah... I'd say if you want some sort of rational discussion on this, to push your point out, not on just reddit or just whatever, make the video, tumblr post etc then mention it everywhere you're still active... You seem to still have a facebook, I'm assuming some people still try to say hello to you or have some interest on there?

You've spoken honestly about being a dick in the past, why not now? Tell everyone what some people have seen you say. That if you had done you're regretful, but you tried your best to know and consent is a two way deal. Don't have to mention names. I'm sure you COULD use the anonymous descriptions of the scenes and elaborate on YOUR memory, since they'd still be half anonymous (they're half)

Honestly, I'm sort of against you in all this, I knew a lot of manipulative guys, so it makes me feel like there could be truth on the behalf of the accusor. But I still want to see you try to push your point.

You kinda left an open wound when you tried to say the second thing (that if you have done, you've not meant to and are apologetic) for people to throw salt in..

Also, a true person in your position, if they were being true and honest and apologetic and looking for a resolve would throw a few pound to RAINN or something... No one may wanna hear from you, but that doesn't mean you can somehow try to get the point out there.

Also, if you read this and do make your video... don;'t monetize on it. people won't bother. Prove you're not doing it for careers sake... prove you're decent

Okay first off, do you really think I'll win over people who don't like me by making a public charitable donation? Come on. Using charity to try and make me look like a good person is ridiculous. Whenever I donate to charity (profits from singles notwithstanding) I do it privately.

Second, yesterday I saw a tweet saying that, if you're swayed by Alex Day's reddit comments, we should all remember the primary thing he's accused of is being a serial manipulator. So, basically, there's literally nothing I can say that will ever be listened to by people who aren't on my side already because I am a manipulator and therefore I'm just trying to manipulate you so therefore invalid. (This tweet came from the boyfriend of my most vocal accuser - so obviously completely unbiased and objective, then.)

That's why I'm not rushing to make public statements. I could do without any further stress, to be honest. I'm commenting on reddit because a) it was low-key at first (I've stopped now people outside reddit started noticing) and b) because the community here feels more open-minded to an intelligent discussion regardless of prior prejudices and who's on who's side.

"Okay first off, do you really think I'll win over people who don't like me by making a public charitable donation?"

I don't think your priority should be "win" people back on your side. I would assume you would want to continue doing what you loved for 8 years? And people didn't like you then, some of them changed there mind, I was suggesting to continue and hope that someone sees the good in you, that maybe sides of a story were misunderstood or out of context in the future, and the ones that wouldnt watch won't anyway...

I really didn't think anyone would suggest a charitable donation to only win someone over... Oh hey look at me I'm helping! I was suggesting though, that it may help to mention the charities and where people should go to seek help and that you were willing to offer aide too, if you did cause harm, which may have been unintentional.

Although now, I don't think that would be worth it. What a response. "Thanks for the advice on how to atone, but that method won't gain my fans back." is essentially your first statement there, that you're unwilling to help in any public fashion, to acknowledge what you did, to offer someone, possibly your accuser, assistance in getting over something you may or may not have done and rather the cheap method of your words on some reddit thread, with vague I didn't do it's and I would say the story but I don't want to hurt them more. The stories are out there, don't mention names is all.

Also, that tweet, probably meant a far worse thing than this but could possibly be read, by you, as "His words are no good, he's used them before to get his way, let's see what actions he can do to prove the words' meaning"

I didn't understand you were giving me advice on how to atone, my apologies. The way I read it was that you were giving me advice on how to show that I was atoning. To which my point was basically that showing atonement in that way won't really change people's minds. I hope that makes sense.

I do want to continue doing what I love, which is why I am. The week after this all happened, I was in the studio recording music. Maybe nobody will ever hear it, but I have it and I'm happy with it. Videos were always the things I did because I was bored and wanted to tell people what I was up to. I don't really want to tell people what I'm up to anymore, and I'm not bored; I have a full life, I do other things.

I'm not willing to help publicly because I believe that, as the perpetrator in this situation, my help won't be useful or even acknowledged, will be seen as a cynical attempt to try and gain sympathy if it is, and will generally cause more misinformation and upset to be put into the world. Lack of awareness isn't a problem this issue faces in your community. Hank, Charlie and many other people have made videos about rape culture and where to go for help. I do not believe you need me to let people know that RAINN exists.

Additionally, it's obvious that everyone has a very different idea of what 'atonement' would mean. Some people would like to see me publicly donating to charity. Some people would like to see me go into the situations in detail. Some people would like to see me donating my adsense to charity, or turning ads off on my videos, or deleting my channel, or just coming back and facing it and getting back to making videos again, or just making one final video to explain and then disappearing, some people would rather never see me again, some people think I should apologise publicly to every person involved, etc etc etc. Ultimately I have to deal with this in the way I think is right. It won't make everyone happy. It probably won't make anyone happy. That's not the point of atonement. It's supposed to make me better.

I'm not here on reddit to clear my name or win people around. I'm here on reddit because, at this point in my life, I want to talk occasionally about things in vague terms because it's making me feel better to see that there are people who exist on the internet that are willing to listen, no matter what conclusions they reach after having done so. Maybe one day I'll talk specifically. Maybe one day I'll shut up. I have no agenda here besides the pursuit of catharsis.

Alex, could you comment on what people are saying about other YouTubers?

I remember being really shocked on how Lex, Rosianna and others responded to a comment Carrie made on a video about how was important to say 'no' when being coerced into sex. Maybe she didn't phrase it in an excellent way, but I believe it was an important message that got lost because of the how "victim blaming" speech.

Yesterday, in response to your comments here and your comments on Ed's video, some people took to Tumblr to talk about the matter again. And there was some ridiculous statement about Luke Conard. He was not allowed to have a puppy, because that was manipulation. Not allowed to post on his instagram account, because people would feel bad. He is being accused of being a sociopath, which I think is absurd, considering it is a mental condition that has nothing to do with having pretty bad break-ups.

I don't know, I feel like most people making statements on this case experienced awful break-ups and are confusing that with rape/emotional manipulation/abuse.

Short answer is that a lot of the most vocal people having this discussion seem very intent on forcing everyone to have exactly the same opinion as them with no room for even a slight diversion, and I would personally argue that might be some of the reason why everyone else stopped trying to have it.

Doubt you'll reply to this, and its kinda out of context and a bit personal, but what do you do for work now? Have you got a desk job, or work at the cashier or something? What are your plans for the future.

As far as the "issue" is concerned, you did nothing illegal and a lot of the claims were anonymous. We also didn't get your side of the story. I think when it happened you should of made a blog post with your side, instead of apologizing and admitting to it.

And I still fancy you, but the new short hair is doing you no favors. If this whole issue has put you off women, and you want to bat for the other team, im your man. <3

playing Ace Attorney does not make you an expert in criminal proceedings

I completely agree, it's just this whole situation frustrates me in very much the same way those games often do, I don't know who to believe because no one has any proof.

there have been a lot of people come forward saying that he has abused them. You're giving him the benefit of the doubt? What about his victims?

Words are wind. People who make such serious accusations should have proof. The burden of proof is on the accuser. I can go ahead and make an anonymous Tumblr post saying TheProdigalPoster sexually assaulted me, that doesn't make it true.

Staying neutral or siding with the accused does nothing but hurt the people that have been abused.

If we're not allowed to stay neutral because it might hurt people, that's seems like a slippery slope. I'm not even siding with Alex Day, I'm saying if people are going to accuse him of something without any proof, I'm not going to believe them. I have no reason to believe the anonymous Tumblr users more than Nerimon.

And Charlie has every right to cut him out of his life.

I never said he didn't have that right. I agree with you, he completely has that right. He also has the right to not listen to Alex's side of the story. I'm just saying, he seems to have just completely cast their relationship away without giving him a chance to explain, and I personally find that disrespectful.

And do you honestly think Alex is going to admit what he's done?

He's admitted to some things he's done. That being said, I have no reason to believe him when he denies doing those things. I also have no reason to believe the people accusing him of doing those things. Like I said earlier, the burden of proof should be on the accuser, not the person being accused.

And if words are so wind-like, you sure do seem to cling to Alex's words very hard.

I am not clinging to his words at all. I even say I have no reason to believe him over the people who accuse him of doing this stuff. I'm saying you can't accuse someone without any proof. If I'm "clinging" to anything, it's the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

You are toeing the line of victim-blaming very hard.

Where do I come even close to blaming the victims? If Nerimon did actually commit the alleged acts, it is in no way the fault of the victims, and Alex Day should be punished. What I'm saying is that there's no proof. You can't fucking start blaming people of things with no proof. I agree, it is hard to get proof for stuff like this, but until either side comes up with proof you can't give a verdict.

Do you know what it feels like to be abused?

I admit I personally do not. I have a few friends who have been abused and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. However, if start believing accusations which have no proof to back them up, that's an extremely slippery slope.

I have just set up a redding account after reading through some of the posts on this blog. Thought I would remind you all of a tweet Alex sent on the 12th of July 2012: "Explain to me how Chris Brown has a career. I'm a musician, I'm the same age, I've never beaten a woman, yet I'm not the one on the radio." Followed by: "Talent doesn't override assault!" Just a reminder that Alex also used to claim that abusers didn't deserve a career

That's true. Chris Brown, after all, went to court. His case was tried by an external regulatory body and he pleaded guilty to it. That hasn't happened to me.

Additionally, expressing myself on a personal internet account is a very different thing. I wouldn't deny Chris Brown the right to make YouTube videos or release music himself on iTunes. But I'd argue it's a bit much to give him a Grammy. It's the difference between having the right to personal self-expression and having that self-expression be externally endorsed.

It's also worth pointing out that I'm obviously jealous that he's on the radio and I'm not, and that was a large motivation for that tweet and my subsequent thoughts on the matter.

Alex I really wish more people would take the time to read all this and hear your side of things. The whole situation has been very interesting and it is good you and are commenting on this and communicating with others who support you.

I think many people are far too quick to jump to conclusions without knowing the full story. You need to stop paying attention to these individuals and focus on everyone who wants to see you start leading a happy successful life again because they believe that you are a good person despite doing at admitting to doing bad things. These people are trusting that you have changed and learned from this experience and I fully believe this.

I don't forgive him, because he didn't do anything to me. He makes youtube video's and shares my sense of fashion, it's like if a complete stranger gives you a cookie everyday, do you really care about that persons relations or what tumblr thinks of them? no, you're just happy for the cookie you get everyday. But when the cookies stop because too many people hate the person for uncookie-related reasons, then I have an issue.

I'm unable to read the posts right now (phones acting up), but I'll be a little miffed if hes trying to insert himself back into a community that has told him repeatedly that they don't feel safe with him as a part of it and are choosing the involved women who feel specifically uncomfortable over him. I get wanting to explain yourself, and if thats all it is whatever, but its still important to me as a member of a community to make as many people feel as safe and comfortable as possible.

This is an approach I can't advocate. If you want to read my comments, go to the thread and read them. Your approach doesn't provide sufficient context and this general habit people have online of copying-and-pasting to make abridged easily-digestible versions of important topics is half the reason this situation is as messy as it is.

This isn't an easily-digestible situation, we shouldn't pretend it can be summed up succinctly.

Don't know if you're aware but we live in 2014, and there are thousands of people aged below the legal age who are involved in sexual activity. If Alex hadn't been brought up for what he'd done, no one would have cared less if he was 16 and she was 15 because it happens in society and people move on.

When you make sexual assault- even alleged sexual assault- into a "discussion" you're implicitly taking it upon yourself to determine whether the charges are true. And because of rape culture, the default tends to be biased in favor of the aggressor. The kind of people who want to have a "discussion" about this sort of thing and "get both sides of the story" are the kind of people who, for one reason or another, want the accusation to be untrue.

thaumatropia has a point - this is, of course, why rape charges never go to court, but are immediately sentenced without a trial wait

Yes, they are taking it upon themselves to determine whether the charges are true. It's not called aggressor-bias. It's called objectivity.

If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. Agreed. But if a mouse runs up to you and says 'an elephant stepped on me!' and then the elephant comes up and says 'actually it wasn't quite like that', you don't have that inherent proof. And you're not automatically on one side or another for trying to determine such proof. And if the mouse just responded by calling you a victim-blamer and running away, that wouldn't help anyone.

I think both sides is important because one of the most damaging ideas is the idea that abusers are these easily recognized, clearly evil people. You may know them as a good person in another context, and that does not mean they did not do this. I say this as a survivor and as an advocate. Maybe, by hearing Alex's account, someone who has been behaving the same way may realize that they, too, are doing bad things and should stop.

My friend's attacker, when called out, knew he had done something "bad" somehow but did not know it was sexual assault. I'm agreeing with you about not taking it upon ourselves to determine the validity of the charges, but I think the more we bring clear conversation and attention to what consent entails, the better.

The kind of people who want to have a "discussion" about this sort of thing and "get both sides of the story" are the kind of people who, for one reason or another, want the accusation to be untrue.

You mean like in criminal courts? They too want both sides of the story. Both sides are given an equal voice. Unless you come from some country where false allegations cannot possibly exist. Just as you cannot assume these allegations are immediately false, you cannot immediately paint the guy as a heartless perpetrator. That's not up to you, it's up to a court of law.
I'm not a fan of this guy at all and hardly know him, but what you're saying seems a bit hypocritical.

Or maybe, by Alex sharing his side of what happened, it will let other people recognize their own problematic behavior. I think that by Alex sharing his experience of what he did, why he didn't think it was wrong at the time, and how it ended up causing harm to the girls anyway is helpful for other people who may be in the same situation. I wish more people were willing to listen to Alex's side in order to see that sexual assault is not always violently holding someone down, sometimes it's emotionally coercing them and sometimes it looks like consent even when it isn't.

Alex, if you're reading this, I really appreciate you commenting here. I wish more people were willing to listen to your side without burning you at the stake automatically. I don't support your behavior but I really think the way the community has responded has been overkill, especially from those who knew you IRL.

If someone you knew was mugged, would you want to know both sides of the story? What if they were victims of a hate crime? Or if their house was set on fire? I bet your answers to those questions is some flavor of "No," even though false allegations happen with those crimes too. So why are rape allegations different? Why are rape victims effectively on trial for their own assault?

Having been raped before, I am still inclined to search for the truth no matter where that truth is. No one deserves to be falsely accused of anything. No one, man or woman, should be raped or taken advantage of, but life isn't always as black and white as people want to assume. Things can happen that make the lines blurred, put undo pressure on one party, or make the other think they have permission. Does it make it right? No. But I am never, EVER, going to simply assume someone is guilty without first hearing the proof. And if all the proof out there is one persons words then we need to really think about those words, and try and discover the absolute truth of the matter because we aren't just dealing with a he said she said situation. We are talking about ruining another human beings life. Not just a month, or a year, but his whole entire life.

If you are going to destroy a persons reputation, his livelihood, his social standing, and everything else that makes him who he is then why shouldn't he at least have one opportunity to speak on his behalf? The whole idea of "rape culture influences you" isn't good enough.

I cannot speak for the previous commenters, but if someone I knew was mugged/assaulted/a victim of arson I would expect the person accused of the crime to have their day in court.

The difference between sexual assaults and the others you described is that, in the other types, there is easily identifiable evidence of the crime: missing property, identifiable injuries, a burnt-down house. The burden of proof lies with the accuser for all crimes; the problem is, many sexual assaults don't have this type of easily identifiable evidence.

Another difference is that in the crimes you described above, the crime is easy to identify, while the criminal is often more difficult to find. In sexual assault cases (or at least in this case), the (accused) criminal is known, while the crime (or lackthereof) is difficult to determine.

The previous commenters are not illustrating some double-standard in the legal process when it comes to sexual assault and other different types of crime. There is simply a difference in the way that sexual assault and other criminal cases evolve from the time of the incident to the closing of the trial.

If you personally know someone who survived sexual assault- and, statistically speaking, you do- you should ask them about their experiences in trying to have the crime documented, much less investigated and prosecuted.

I didn't really know how to express the "identifiable injuries" line you mentioned. What I really mean is (and note that this sort of medical stuff is a subject where I know very little) is that it is more difficult to prove a sexual assault happened than to prove that a house got burned down.

I agree that the system of reporting sexual assaults is broken and that an unacceptable amount of sexual assaults go unreported/uninvestigated. My argument is that now that we have reached this point, we need to treat this/these incident/s as we would any other crime.

If you want to boycott Alex's music, that is perfectly fine and understandable. If I were a fan of his, I might do the same thing. However, everyone needs to recognize that nothing has been proven as of yet (which, again, does not mean nothing happened).

When you say this phrase, you are actively trying to stop people from contributing from the discussion. Hence the downvotes. That make sense?

Why are you so convinced of Alex's guilt? We have no objective proof one way or another, so why are you behaving with such scorn and rejection to those who simply refuse to condemn someone on pure hearsay?

We are nerdfighters. We are about acceptance, not about ostracizing people at the first mention of nefarious activities, especially when there is little more to go on than the words of those involved.

We know nothing. Let's stop acting like we're entitled to judge others based on rumor, speculation, and stories of crime not backed up by legal conviction.

Well the only comments of yours that seem to be downvoted are the ones where you disagree with the reasoning for downvoting. That doesn't necessarily contribute to the main conversation - it's more about reddiquette.

Ok. So look at my comments on this post. And this one, for that matter. I made critical comments about whether this post was appropriate, and I'm getting downvoted into oblivion. And there are too many for it to be lots of individuals independently and rationally deciding that I'm being a troll. This is a brigade. But there seems to be a consensus that it's okay to do it to me, but that any downvoting I do violates reddiquette.

I'm not downvoting because I'm a troll, and I'm not downvoting as part of a brigade (the positive karma for this post and people who've gotten into it with me ITT should illustrate this). I'm downvoting this post because I don't feel like it serves the community, that having a "discussion" in this forum and this context about the veracity of sexual assault allegations does nothing except protect the accused aggressor and create an unsafe environment for anyone on this sub who was a victim of sexual abuse. And for that, I've been getting downvotes and negative comments and threatening private messages. (You'd think Nerdfighters of all people would shy away from making anonymous death threats. And yet.)

I don't think this post is appropriate for the kind of community this subreddit is supposed to be. If you feel that I'm violating either the rules of this sub or reddiquette generally, you are welcome to downvote and move on, or complain to the mods. But I'm not backing down from this.

I feel that I should point out a few things that I agree with you on in this post, as well as things that I believe may be jumps to some conclusions.

First of all, I think most people will agree that you are not part of a brigade, but I do not believe that the people upvoting these posts/comments are part of a brigade either. This is something that, whether it be right or wrong aside, are interested in reading, and believe it is worth letting other people know that they should read it too. Upvoting either this post or any of /u/nerimon's comments does not mean that they agree with him, what he's done, etc. It is fathomable that a large amount of people may be interested in reading what /u/nerimon has to say due to the drama that surrounds it.

Furthermore, you are not breaking any rules by downvoting out of opinion, nor is anyone else breaking the rules by downvoting you. It is frowned upon, and not what the system is made for, but you will not receive punishments for downvoting or admitting to downvoting out of opinion (at least on this subreddit).

I also feel that it may be the case that you are being largely downvoted not because of your opinion on Alex Day's presence or that of this post, nor of the legitimacy of either of them. Rather, looking at the posts that you made that you described as critical to the discussion to whether or not these types of posts should be allowed, are simply one liners that come off as sarcastic and rude. Understandably, being passionate about this topic means that no one's under obligation to discuss things a certain way, but that tends to come at the cost of downvotes.

A final note, regardless of anyone's stance or opinion, we take death threats directed at any user very seriously. If you are able to show us proof of the threat in the form of screencaps (messaged to the moderators), we will take necessary action in the form of a ban from the subreddit as well as further action if at all possible (ie. an appeal to have administrative action taken)

If you are able to show us proof of the threat in the form of screencaps (messaged to the moderators), we will take necessary action in the form of a ban from the subreddit as well as further action if at all possible (ie. an appeal to have administrative action taken)

I don't have proof. I reported the message and it no longer appears in my inbox. The user account has also been deleted. So, take what I said with a grain of salt. I'm not lying about it, but I acknowledge that you have no way of knowing that.

the downvote button isn't "I disagree", the downvote button is, "this post does not add to the discussion."

There is objectively a discussion happening, sorry, whether you want it to happen or not is entirely your problem. But it's happening. If you want to be a fair and contributing member of this website, then please don't just downvote stuff you don't like. That's not how it works.

Second, reddiquette isn't an immutable law of nature. People violate it all the time, and this whole thread is no exception. Get off your high horse.

Third, you fundamentally misunderstand my problem with this post, homie. It ain't about me disliking it. It's about every single person in my life who was a victim of sexual assault who had a hell of a time getting other people to believe that it actually happened, or that they didn't share responsibility. It's about everyone in this thread being part of the problem.

But please, go ahead and mansplain to me more about how I'm not using a website correctly.

I'm not talking down to anyone. I am just explaining to you the rules of a website. By downvoting stuff that contributes to a discussion people are having, you are ruining that discussion for them. That is an objective fact. It's not me on a high horse, and it doesn't matter if people violate it all the time. I'm just asking you to be a decent person. Sheesh.

No one in this thread is part of any problem. The guy is just trying to explain himself. You're promoting a mindset where he should be decided as guilty without hearing his side, and this mindset is toxic.

But all of that is entirely besides the point that the discussion at hand has nothing to do with whether or not you should downvote it. You should not downvote it just because you should try to be a decent person and let people discuss whatever the fuck they want to discuss.