tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post219860233969473492..comments2019-01-14T07:47:51.352-05:00Comments on PHOTO LOVECAT: The Dirty Little Secret of the Photography Industry, Pt. 1Annehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00874330375617904671noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-51715781546745310612012-12-21T10:40:04.599-05:002012-12-21T10:40:04.599-05:00Don&#39;t take offense, Nicole. If it doesn&#39;t ...Don&#39;t take offense, Nicole. If it doesn&#39;t apply to you then ignore it. Keep chasing that dream, you should be commended!Hughes Fiorettihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14840427777184927480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-52316872941502370852011-07-21T00:20:55.229-05:002011-07-21T00:20:55.229-05:00&quot;Pro&quot;-photographers like Anne should wor...&quot;Pro&quot;-photographers like Anne should worry more about their business and customers than her fear of &quot;non-professional&quot; photographers. Facts are:<br />A degree in photography neither makes you a pro nor photographer. <br />You don&#39;t need an office, studio, or degree to shoot great photos. <br /><br />Anne, stop you&#39;re bitching and take more photos.Briannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-68624429941944418322011-06-24T07:34:55.337-05:002011-06-24T07:34:55.337-05:00I agree with you %100 although I think it&#39;s mo...I agree with you %100 although I think it&#39;s more like 98 percent of people calling themselves &#39;pro&#39;.<br /><br />The bold quote in your article has a typo, &#39;than&#39; instead of &#39;then&#39;.<br /><br />Cheers :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-18296680578756501762011-06-16T12:08:44.344-05:002011-06-16T12:08:44.344-05:00David,
Why do you think that photography as a prof...David,<br />Why do you think that photography as a profession will be extinct? There is no reason for people to make fine art paintings - we have photography to make records of what people look like, or what nature looks like.<br />I think the photographers who survive will have a distinct artistic vision. It is no longer enough to just have the technical ability - that&#39;s easy now (unless you are a studio photographer).Kristin Smithhttp://www.parkersmithportraits.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-63054554561672982762011-06-10T21:13:25.432-05:002011-06-10T21:13:25.432-05:00There is a reality all photographers need to face....There is a reality all photographers need to face. Photography and the cost of getting into the business is very small compared to the pre-digital area. You buy a $500 Cannon Rebel and print some cards. You then call yourself a wedding photographer.<br /><br />Brides are so use to seeing their pictres taken with a cell phone that any pic taken with a DSLR is going to impress them.<br /><br />There use to be blacksmiths. They made swords and they shoed horses. Guns were invinted that could be made by machines and cars came along and no one needed their horses shoed anymore. Blacksmiths had to become machanics or find other work. <br /><br />Here are some jobs of yesteryear:<br />-- Pinsetter: Automatic bowling machines now set the pins<br />-- Elevator operator<br />-- Ice Man<br />-- Milk Man<br />-- Typest (replaced by the zerox machine)<br />-- Telegraph operator (replaced by the phone)<br /><br /><br />There are tens of thousands of examples like this. As technology changes professions become extinct. In 10 years there will be no full-time photographers. <br /><br />Recent jobs that are no more, or soon will be:<br />-- Telephone Operator<br />-- Film Processor (How many of you shoot film just to save their jobs?)<br />-- Movie Rental clerk<br />-- Travel Agents<br />-- Bank Tellers<br />-- Toll Booth Operators<br /><br />The fact is that it is very difficult, if not impossible to make a living doing what you love. The day will come when photographers are much like ham radio operators. Just a group of people doing something they love the way it use to be done.Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-75148177816784820122011-04-15T08:43:18.793-05:002011-04-15T08:43:18.793-05:00Hi there, that&#39;s a grate post with important i...Hi there, that&#39;s a grate post with important informations,i agree with what you said in the begining. Thanks for posting those info.Mihai Rosuhttp://www.photographymadesimple.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-18315676540177934982011-04-12T16:54:10.399-05:002011-04-12T16:54:10.399-05:00@erik- I agree with you 100%. I work in health car...@erik- I agree with you 100%. I work in health care and run my photography business on a part-time basis. As long as I&#39;m professional and run my business as one, my clients are happy. I don&#39;t hide my &quot;day&quot; job at all, if anything they don&#39;t question my prices because they know I can make money by other means. <br /><br />I don&#39;t think because you are a part-timer you aren&#39;t professional. It takes time to build up clientele and experience to run your business full time and that&#39;s not <br />just in photography, but business in general. <br /><br />Because I don&#39;t ever plan to go full time with my business due to my commitment to health care, I plan to focus on a model that Jodie stated earlier about less clients and being more &quot;exclusive.&quot; I look at it this way...I&#39;m still a registered nurse whether I&#39;m full time or part time and still responsible to maintain the same level of professionalism. Why should photography be any different? Sorry, but not everyone wants or needs to be full time, that&#39;s really not the real problem.Teresa Nicolehttp://www.teresanicoleblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-21387375464195112812011-04-11T21:29:27.921-05:002011-04-11T21:29:27.921-05:00Bravo. Many people put it out there that they are ...Bravo. Many people put it out there that they are professional photographers, yet with no biz sense, may actually PAY to be away from their families on wkds and evenings when they are not at their &quot;day&quot; job. I am always sad when I have my students DO THE MATH and they find that being a &quot;profesional&quot; photographer has been costing them money year over year. BUT its a great start, where they can evaluate and plan to correct that. In days of old, before art &quot;college&quot; and degrees in photography, one would apprentice under a respected pro, that actually was turning a profit in the biz, and THAT was where you learned the street savvy part of doing business as a professional photographer.Jeffrey Blake Adamshttp://www.adamsphotographics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-64097148745116114882011-04-07T16:06:05.612-05:002011-04-07T16:06:05.612-05:00Ok, I&#39;m gonna play devil&#39;s advocate. I&#3...Ok, I&#39;m gonna play devil&#39;s advocate. I&#39;m one of those people who has a full time job and a second job as a photographer. And the money I make from photography is my play money. It allows me to travel, buy new photo toys and attend the occasional workshop. Does that make me less qualified? Or not a professional? Somehow less able to provide an awesome experience for the client?<br /><br />I don&#39;t hide the fact that I have a day job, but quite honestly it just doesn&#39;t matter. What does my being an IT manager have to do with how well I make photographs? Most clients actually think it&#39;s cool that I do photography in addition to a day job. It shows I&#39;m multi-dimensional which I believe makes me more able to relate to them.<br /><br />So I don&#39;t make my living 100% from photography. Does the client really care? As long as they like me and my work I don&#39;t see a problem.Erikhttp://erikpatton.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-26229885731327262762011-04-07T04:35:38.145-05:002011-04-07T04:35:38.145-05:00Yep, I gotta say, as &quot;true&quot; as this post...Yep, I gotta say, as &quot;true&quot; as this post is, it misses the point at first- There are some HORRIBLE photographers out there, working full time and delivering some pretty bland art. And there are also some STUNNINGLY skilled hobbyists out there, who I&#39;d hire to shoot my wedding in a HEARTBEAT compared to some of the &quot;veteran&quot; photographers out there who have decades of experience but a portfolio worse than the average 19 year old who just got a DSLR for their birthday.<br /><br />I totally see the point you&#39;re trying to make, Anne, and I STRONGLY agree with the message in general- beware indeed, brides! Don&#39;t hire a hack...<br /><br />However, it&#39;s way more complicated than that, and you were certainly asking for trouble in calling it a &quot;dirty little secret.&quot; But then again I suppose the goal is to get attention so that hopefully, clients become more informed. Although I&#39;m betting that in situations like this, it is mostly just other photographers who are reading this and getting riled up. The best way to reach the ACTUAL industry, the clients, is directly and personally, one bride or groom at a time. Give the &quot;facts&quot; (and your opinions / observations) ...and let them put two and two together. :-)<br /><br />=Matt=Matthew Savillehttp://matthewsaville.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-85637094866491958102011-04-07T02:20:16.293-05:002011-04-07T02:20:16.293-05:00Great post! I am one of those photographers who ha...Great post! I am one of those photographers who has committed myself to photography as a full-time career. I&#39;m fortunate in that I started before the boom of digital equipment made every jackass with a Canon Rebel think they could shoot someone&#39;s wedding for money.<br /><br />And even though there have been financial ups and downs, especially over the past few years, choosing to do what I love for a living is absolutely worth it.<br /><br />That said, the reason I wanted to contribute to this thread, is because I get at least a half dozen emails a month from newly graduated student photographers. They&#39;re all contacting me to see if I&#39;m hiring an assistant.<br /><br />Although I respect the effort and attempt they&#39;re making to find paid photography work, it always kind of shocks me that these kids clearly were not taught a damn thing about marketing, economics, administration, or plain old common sense in their photography courses.<br /><br />I always take the time to respond to their inquires, but my reply is pretty uniform... <br /><br />I tell each and every one of them, that the majority of professional photographers aren&#39;t hiring assistants these days, as it&#39;s not an affordable option, even for those of us who do work at it full time.<br /><br />I then suggest that they contact local magazines, popular blogs and local papers to see if they can either volunteer or do a photography internship.<br /><br />But what I really want to tell them is that they should ask for their tuition back. Because no photography school should consider a photography student properly educated unless they also teach them that it&#39;s an increasingly difficult industry to make a living in.Vancouver photographer Tamea Burdhttp://www.tameaburdphotography.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-48430928285948631712011-04-06T17:27:17.041-05:002011-04-06T17:27:17.041-05:00I share Alexis&#39; sentiment. We pay schools to t...I share Alexis&#39; sentiment. We pay schools to teach us, but they don&#39;t teach us enough... even when we ask for more...<br /><br />So when&#39;s part 2?<br /><br />Thanks Anne!Chris Mulreadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10049304135909226252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-25241816094249402102011-04-06T16:27:34.293-05:002011-04-06T16:27:34.293-05:00@damon- yeah, his rants are legendary. ;-)@damon- yeah, his rants are legendary. ;-)Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00874330375617904671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-34933972459640826212011-04-06T15:56:16.945-05:002011-04-06T15:56:16.945-05:00By no means am I trying to be contrary. When I see...By no means am I trying to be contrary. When I see the word amateur I&#39;m always reminded of <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE" rel="nofollow">Harlan Ellison&#39;s incredible rant about amateurs and people that want stuff for free</a>.Damonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-47511461452292895492011-04-06T15:48:45.831-05:002011-04-06T15:48:45.831-05:00Your timing couldn&#39;t have been any better! tha...Your timing couldn&#39;t have been any better! thanks!Monikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05462109071286482610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-63589877670684120692011-04-06T15:45:39.578-05:002011-04-06T15:45:39.578-05:00I was just pointed to this link by Chase, and I to...I was just pointed to this link by Chase, and I totally agree:<br />http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog/2011/04/there’s-nothing-wrong-with-being-an-amateur/#comment-35037Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00874330375617904671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-8848820429753078772011-04-06T14:59:55.127-05:002011-04-06T14:59:55.127-05:00Good job Anne, having worked with photographers fo...Good job Anne, having worked with photographers for more than 13 years, I have seen just as you suggest. <br /><br />Well done.Joe Carreirohttp://nakataconsulting.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-58337756385429627372011-04-06T14:16:03.372-05:002011-04-06T14:16:03.372-05:00Damon, spot on. The elemental issue I have is that...Damon, spot on. The elemental issue I have is that many of these photography business workshops are given by people who CLAIM to be successful and these are the steps in how they became so successful... yet they are not when it comes down to counting the cold hard cash.<br /><br />I guess I&#39;m personally bitter about it because I fell for it once upon a time. I fell for the fairy tale and thought when I was still a starry eyed newbie that a workshop would show me the yellow brick road to not only be a better photographer but live the lifestyle that this person presents they have. Turns out that it&#39;s a ton of smoke and mirrors and they are living hand to mouth and barely surviving. Obviously something they are doing and teaching is wrong if they can&#39;t afford to live on their earnings. Lesson learned.Corey Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16833252125131127054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-32035843252479173672011-04-06T14:07:31.115-05:002011-04-06T14:07:31.115-05:00@Christine: Sure it&#39;s possible that someone co...@Christine: Sure it&#39;s possible that someone could be a fine teacher without actual real experience running a reasonably profitable business. The issue I take with that is the way those teachers present their workshops.<br /><br />If they call their workshop &quot;the theory of running a profitable photography business&quot; then that&#39;s fine. It&#39;s honest in that it doesn&#39;t portray the teacher as someone who actually did it. Instead the teacher can list out other credentials, like an MBA or job experience and the market will determine the true value of that offering as it relates to people trying to succeed in a very specialized field with stagnant demand and downward pricing pressure due to massively increasing supply.<br /><br />Personally I think that charging for untested advice that was cobbled together from blogs and general business books and tossed in a fancy presentation or PDF borders on criminality or at the very least dishonesty. There really is no substitute for experience and hard numbers.Damonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-27444144673163868562011-04-06T14:07:15.137-05:002011-04-06T14:07:15.137-05:00Really, I think the most successful at business ha...Really, I think the most successful at business have very little time to teach. Many unsung heros in the industry.<br /><br />People can be teachers without being doers. I&#39;ve seen it in every industry I&#39;ve been in. Just because you can run a great business doesn&#39;t mean you are a good teacher at all.<br /><br />So I prefer to learn from people that can teach well, especially from the business side of things. Sound business principles are sound business principles, and are pretty universal truths.Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07653458603049434415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-24086250794816448832011-04-06T13:59:48.723-05:002011-04-06T13:59:48.723-05:00To each their own. I prefer to learn from someone...To each their own. I prefer to learn from someone that not only can talk the talk but also walks the walk. Anyone can blow hot air, few learn how to capture it and rise above.Corey Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16833252125131127054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-39423334609536617862011-04-06T13:52:59.179-05:002011-04-06T13:52:59.179-05:00This is the third business I&#39;ve owned in my li...This is the third business I&#39;ve owned in my life. I started my photography business after 20 years of owning a SLR with a lot of knowledge on pricing and how to turn a profit. I could have easily started teaching that to others that knew a lot about photography but had no clue on how to price -- before I ever made a dime as a photographer.<br /><br />I think someone can be a GREAT teacher on sound business practices without being a profitable photographer. Or a great motivator on building a good business without being a profitable photographer. Maybe they were meant to be a teacher and not a photographer to begin with?<br /><br />Personally, I won&#39;t attend any workshop to learn how to take photos - but I&#39;ve learned a lot from business workshops. (I did attend a photo focused workshop a few years ago - but it was a lovely trip that was a business write-off and that was my main intention in going.) Zack Arias &amp; his OneLight workshop is my one exception to this personal rule. His workshop is AWESOME.Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07653458603049434415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-72510013654383449882011-04-06T13:45:27.251-05:002011-04-06T13:45:27.251-05:00I understand the idea of skilled photographers aug...I understand the idea of skilled photographers augmenting their income by teaching a skill. That makes sense and is totally legitimate. <br /><br />The problem is that most workshops I&#39;ve seen offered in the wedding sphere try to be a little bit of everything: shooting, processing, and business. The shooting ends up being a gangbang around a model, the processing advice is &quot;use these actions&quot;, and the business advice is &quot;outsource the things you don&#39;t like&quot; and/or &quot;add value&quot; mixed in with some regurgitated lines from the <i>E-Myth</i> book or Seth Godin&#39;s blog.<br /><br />What&#39;s even worse are the affinity scams that prey on specific groups, i.e. a specific gender, religious group, etc. That kind of workshop selling is rampant and judging by the paucity of actual real paid clients on the blogs of the workshop leaders&#39; it seems that their only real income stream nowadays is &quot;teaching&quot;. <br /><br />Leveraging photo industry fame (gained via WPPI, PPA, or discussion forum) to sell the dream seems to be alive and well.Damonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-23934126445393394072011-04-06T13:31:13.537-05:002011-04-06T13:31:13.537-05:00The article wasn&#39;t meant to slam all part-time...The article wasn&#39;t meant to slam all part-timers. I&#39;m sure we all started out that way anyway. It&#39;s hard for a client to tell the difference between a person that is doing their business full time, and catering to their clients needs full time versus someone else just &quot;doing it on the side&quot; or as &quot;extra income&quot;.<br /><br />I know some photographers pour their heart and soul into the biz and still work another job. I did that for many years. But many do this part time, and think about it part time. It really is weekend money for many people. Considering that more than 75% of brides spend less than $1000.00 on wedding photography, that tells me that most photographers are doing it for weekend money.Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1956013013256424256.post-78128084550561314422011-04-06T13:26:07.624-05:002011-04-06T13:26:07.624-05:00@chelo - I accept you and I think you are talented...@chelo - I accept you and I think you are talented. Whether you &quot;make it&quot; is defined by you and what &quot;making it&quot; means to you. &quot;Making it&quot; is achieved by the work you put in to get there- not by what anyone else thinks of you. If you live in fear of what others will think of you and your work, than you are putting yourself in the shadow of others. Shine on girl.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00874330375617904671noreply@blogger.com