Nangwa wrote:Sorry you might have missed it Magnus. I'm not really interested in continuing the discussion to be honest.I already acknowledged that I mis-represented when I said "requirement". I remember getting involved with you in circular discussions on e-sangha and have no desire to repeat that here. I dont mean to be rude.You can think whatever you want and thats just fine. We have different experiences, thats all.

I have no idea who you are, so I can't recall having any discussions with you on e-sangha or anywhere else. I have no problems with you, I just think you should be able to back up your statements with some facts, that's all.

/magnus

I thought it was basic common knowledge but since you insist here is a link to a Drukpa Kagyu recommendation that one have a Vajrasattva empowerment prior to doing any Vajrasattva practice like the one in ngondro.

"As I mentioned earlier, before the Vajrayana practice, you should get an initiation of Vajrasattva or some kind of Vajrayana initiation. After this, you should start the Vajrayogini practice, which is part of the ngondro practice. Actually, this practice is not allowed to be publicly transmitted. But I thought that people might be able to get some blessings, therefore I gave the initiation the other night to the public. For those of you who are doing ngondro, you should be prepared to visualize yourself as Vajrayogini and guru on top of your crown. The Vajrayogini practice is actually part of the guru yoga."--HH Gyalwang Drukpa

This quote also illustrates the importance of a Vajrasattva empowerment for further practice general Vajrayana practice.

Nangwa wrote:Sorry you might have missed it Magnus. I'm not really interested in continuing the discussion to be honest.I already acknowledged that I mis-represented when I said "requirement". I remember getting involved with you in circular discussions on e-sangha and have no desire to repeat that here. I dont mean to be rude.You can think whatever you want and thats just fine. We have different experiences, thats all.

I have no idea who you are, so I can't recall having any discussions with you on e-sangha or anywhere else. I have no problems with you, I just think you should be able to back up your statements with some facts, that's all.

/magnus

I thought it was basic common knowledge but since you insist here is a link to a Drukpa Kagyu recommendation that one have a Vajrasattva empowerment prior to doing any Vajrasattva practice like the one in ngondro.

"As I mentioned earlier, before the Vajrayana practice, you should get an initiation of Vajrasattva or some kind of Vajrayana initiation. After this, you should start the Vajrayogini practice, which is part of the ngondro practice. Actually, this practice is not allowed to be publicly transmitted. But I thought that people might be able to get some blessings, therefore I gave the initiation the other night to the public. For those of you who are doing ngondro, you should be prepared to visualize yourself as Vajrayogini and guru on top of your crown. The Vajrayogini practice is actually part of the guru yoga."--HH Gyalwang Drukpa

This quote also illustrates the importance of a Vajrasattva empowerment for further practice general Vajrayana practice.

Thank you for that quote that support your statement Nangwa. I only know one Drukpa Kagyu Lama, Tsoknyi Rinpoche, and he doesn't exactly give Ngondro instructions with these requirements. In general I have been present at many Ngondro transmission of several lineages and I never heard these requirements mentioned. I think personally it is great if one could get both a Vajrasattva and a Vajrayogini empowerment before starting Ngondro but if your Guru only give you the "lung" you should know that this is the most common way these days. While doing Ngondro, which is a big thing that take a lot of time for most of us westerners, you will for sure get at least one empowerment.

/magnus

We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

Yes, I have practiced only Chokling Tersar for a long time now. There are several Vajrasattva practices in the Chokling Tersar. I know the Sangthig Dorsem and the Vajrastattva liberation through hearing as well as one written by Dilgo Khyentse that belong to the Barche Kunsel cycle. They are all very special but the one that I am particularly fond of is the Vajrasattva liberation through hearing that have a particular beautiful and profound Dzogchen language.

/magnus

We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."