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"MGM as a studio was very clear as like 'we want this to be a modern score, we want this not to feel classical, we don't want it to feel thematic, we don't want it be overly orchestral...'"-Junkie XL on his latest "ask me anything" video on youtube.

So there's your answer. MGM literally did not want a good memorable score. I like how relatively open and honest he is about it. Almost like he knows some of us might not like how this score sounds haha.

I think one of the things that plague this score (and many others) is that nowadays everyone feels the need to not only have a opinion, but share it as quick as possible on social media or message boards. But music isn't always likable at first listen. Usually (and I speak for myself here, but I'm pretty sure any people feel the same) the quicker I love a song, the quicker I'll get bored by it and forget it. On the other hand, scores or songs that took me a few listens to fully appreciate tend to have a much better longevity in my playlists.

At first I wasn't impressed by this new JXL effort and, if I had listened to it only once or twice, I would have quickly labelled it as "typical JXL drummy stuff but not as cool as Mad Max". But after seeing the movie and giving the album a few more spins, I'm now ranking this among his best scores. It's packed with crazy ideas popping up everywhere, neat sound effects, an epic main theme and a few very touching light moments.

I'll admit it's a tough listening experience, mainly because of the very long tracks which sometimes tend to 'hide' the great stuff. But it's so damn worth it. In the context of the film it's simply awesome and in perfect sync with the pictures, it enhances the emotion, the action and the epicness in a way not many scores do. Junkie XL definitely improved over the past few years. Of course this score bears his mark and his sound, it's certainly not a classical score, but it's incredibly rich and detailed. It's just not obvious, and requires a bit of patience and perseverance. I'm happy I didn't judge it immediately, and I can only invite you to spend a little more time with it before dismissing it (and its composer) publicly.

Just my 2 cents :-)

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MrZimmerFan

2018-03-22 20:09:02

The score enchances the more emotional and physcical side of the character, and i love that.

I believe this movie don't benefit a more classical adventure score, reminds (outiside, the movie is an adaptation for the 2013 reboot) the vision of Jason Graves for that game, saving distances.

Go to JXL's Youtube channel and watch his latest video. He talks about the process of scoring the film. If you have a problem with the score, direct your criticism and complains at the director/producers/studio because JXL delivered the score they wanted. They wanted to stay away from themes and wanted an a very alternative score. If Tom didn't deliver that, they would've found someone else who would've done the job and you'll still complain that it doesn't sound how you wanted lol.

I've heard a couple of tracks which I liked a lot.

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Edmund Meinerts

2018-03-21 20:03:13

The fact that the directors insisted on a shitty score doesn't absolve the score from being shitty.

rockhound

2018-03-21 20:34:41

and that means, tom did the perfect job. they wanted a shitty score and tom delivered. i am sure they would have fired desplat, williams or whoever, just because they would have failed. the task was to compose a shitty score and tom did that. their problem, if nobody buys the soundtrack album or avoid to see the film, just because of a bad filmscore. for us it is great, because we save money.

Ahmad

2018-03-21 20:56:59

You guys are hilarious.

META

2018-03-22 00:10:48

LOL so they wanted a score with no themes...Just random stuff against action music....Makes sense.

Everan

2018-03-22 04:30:20

It's 2018, everything is shitty

MrZimmerFan

2018-03-22 09:43:10

Yeah, everything is shitty like Red Sparrow ;)

Edmund Meinerts

2018-03-22 09:49:25

Red Sparrow is pretty shitty except for two cues (okay, admittedly two very long cues :p )

Black Panther wasn't shitty though, nor was Cloverfield Paradox!

MrZimmerFan

2018-03-22 09:58:40

Red Sparrow is one of the best by JNH, no kidding now

JBSO99

2018-03-22 17:11:44

I don't think it's one of JNH's bests, but it's really one of the best scores of this year, until now.

I think it will probably be surpassed by his other scores coming this year, especially Fantastic Beasts 2

MrZimmerFan

2018-03-22 18:03:51

I think have a lot of depth in there, the orchestrations, the tension (reminds a lot of Herrmann) and his main theme.

Just got through my first listen on this one and am fairly disappointed. Most of the action/sound design/string writing sounds like leftovers from The Dark Tower (even down to some of the exact same samples) while the brass has a heavy Mad Max feel to it. The orchestral portions are pleasant enough, but even then there is nothing really distinctive that we haven't heard from him before.

One thing that does somewhat work are the jungle sound design elements paired with the drums. Again, nothing original but it definitely is more fresh than the rest of the music on album.

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Rigby

2018-03-15 15:27:42

As much as I hate Deadpool, even I have to admit that there was something distinctive and memorable about that score. Tomb Raider is so generic and bland, even the main theme is forgettable.

Meta

2018-03-16 13:21:42

There was this tiny section towards the end of the track The Devils Sea, which I thought was pretty daring, symphonywise. But I just didn't have the care in me to even cut that little 10 second part out to add to my collection.

mpolonest123

2018-03-16 13:54:17

It’s funny you say that, in The Dark Tower there is an amazing string section at the opening of “Death Always Wins” (which was cut out of the film of course) that lasts maybe 10 seconds and is probably the highlight of the score for me.

As for Tomb Raider, I’ve tried revisiting it in the past few days to see if I would like it better.No.Almost everything about this score is functional at best, undeveloped at worst. It’s almost as if long sections go by with only sound design, just to have a burst of drums or orchestra, then back to sound design. And yes, I know Mad Max was the same case, but it’s frustrating to hear a lesser version of that sound years later from the same composer.

Edmund Meinerts

2018-03-16 16:02:07

I wasn't a huge fan of Mad Max in the first place, but I'm increasingly convinced that it was the peak of Mr. XL's powers as a film composer.

mpolonest123

2018-03-16 16:40:21

@EdmundI think one of the key problems is that he seems to pick the shittiest films to work on. Point Break, Dark Tower, Tomb Raider, etc. But then we get Black Mass, Brimstone, and Mad Max, all excellent scores/films. And I know the quality of the film doesn’t need impact the quality of the score but JXL obviously is pigeonholed as an action/electronics composer. I would love to hear him expand his range and work on scores outside of the action genre. Much like how Hans does a number of different scores.

Imagine a Junkie XL comedy or romantic drama!

MrZimmerFan

2018-03-16 17:48:26

I don't Mad Max as score was great, i enjoyed few tracks, but not much neither. Also that too for Deadpool, the main theme is kinda good, the rest is forgettable.

MrZimmerFan

2018-03-16 17:53:56

Also, i saw Tomb Raider... it was OK

meta

2018-03-17 07:02:43

@mpolonest123

I agree...And, after the promise with Man of Steel and Mad Max (Technically it's OK and serviceable, but I hold this one personally dear, so I give it a pass) I have to say that after Bat v Sup Junkie has gone by the wayside...I dunno if it has anything to do with his influence with Zimmer or what, but...Apart from Point Break and Max, I don't really care for his other stuff...at all.

This guy seems to be waning worse than most all the RCP composers...Hell, I'm even finding Rupert Gregson Williams to be surpassing him, these days....and I don't give a crap about Rupert's work at all, save Tarzan when he woke me.

Ds

2018-03-17 11:14:37

I'm not sure JXL is picking the projects. In the case of Tomb Raider it seems like WB handed it to him when Joss Whedon asked them to replace him on Justice League. I guess they were annoyed because he had been a frequent collaborator, so giving him another blockbuster straightaway was a soft way of dealing with that.

Also yes poor JXL really seems pigeonholed. Even though, to be honest, the only style he's proven excellent so far is the rythmic stuff (see the highlights of Fury Road). His rare excursions to other styles have been quite bland to me, so the fact that he's always asked to do the same style isn't really a surprise. Directors/producters who want this specific sound will call JXL, and people who're making a comedy or romance won't even bother and will call another composer.

MrZimmerFan

2018-03-17 11:25:44

@Meta: Really Point Break was interesting?, it's only 10 minutes of music released, and i din't care about it, honestly, and the movie was really, really bad.

As for Tomb Raider, the music was serviciable in the movie, but i more comfortable with it than Point Break.

mpolonest123

2018-03-17 13:21:27

I still remember when Divergent was released, I was almost immediately dismissive of Junkie XL. Having only heard his remixes and his drum stuff for MoS/300 the first thing I expected was to hear an electronica album with percussion and sound design. So imagine my surprise when I heard several different themes, beautiful string adagios, vocals, and a pretty big variety of styles. And then Run All Night came out and blew me away. Ever since then I’ve been pretty supportive of his work, but I have to agree with everything you guys are saying.

The past two years have been pretty bad in terms of his ratio of good scores to bad. Black Mass and Brimstone, as I’ve mentioned, are solid scores that veer away from the usual JXL sound. But then we have Deadpool (abrasive), Distance Between Dreams (ok for a stand-alone album), Dark Tower (pretty fun in parts and just bland in others), and Tomb Raider (one of the most generic scores I’ve heard in recent memory). It’s frustrating to see a composer who obviously has talent and a diversity of skills write almost the same thing over and over. And the weirdest thing is, his earlier scores are far more distinctive than his current ones. How did that happen?

mpolonest123

2018-03-17 13:22:53

I genuinely wish we could hear Justice League, I would have loved to see what he brought to that under Zack Snyder, a director who actually understands music.

MrZimmerFan

2018-03-17 13:59:08

For the themes mostly, this Batman and this Superman fit with the themes written by Zimmer. But the score by Elfman is miles better than MoS and BvS (for those two, BvS is much interesting and better than MoS, which is only good)

mpolonest123

2018-03-17 14:28:27

@mrzimmerfan I disagree with you there. I love Man of Steel, I think the themes and the overall bombastic nature of the score work perfectly. As for BVS, I’m not a huge fan honestly. There are some amazing highlights, but the tone of the score is so downbeat. It lacks the soaring elements of “Flight” or “What Are You Gonna Do...” and the action highlights of “Terraforming” or “Escape From Ship”.

To each their own though :-)

Edmund Meinerts

2018-03-17 14:48:21

"Zack Snyder, a director who actually understands music"

A matter of opinion, and not an opinion I share.

mpolonest123

2018-03-17 15:03:38

@Edmund He’s definitely not my favorite director, but I do think he knows how to place emphasis on music as opposed to Joss Whedon or any of the other studio director who treats it like a byproduct. One of my biggest pet peeves is when directors/composers just use music as a sonic wallpaper, instead of letting it improve and add to the scene. John Ottman is a great example. He can write great themes, but he tends to write underscore which adds nothing to the film. That’s why Zimmer, Williams, James Newton Howard, etc. are so good. They treat each moment with care.

Meta

2018-03-17 15:25:39

@MrZimmerFan

Point Break is a lousy movie, but the score and guitar main theme isn't all that bad. Those 10 minutes on the soundtrack don't do it enough justice at all.

But again - this is Junkie doing action scoring....Miles better than any of his slow stuff. For me, anyway.

MrZimmerFan

2018-03-17 15:35:11

@mpolonest: But that moments are simply moments, not the entire score, i prefer BvS, because there is a variety in it: Batman, Wonder Woman, Luthor, and is more complex than MoS (also i prefer the movie over MoS).

And yes, the theme for Superman is cool, but that dosen't make the entire score cool too.

mpolonest123

2018-03-17 15:44:43

@mrzimmerfanOh no, I mean I love the score as a whole. I was just saying my personal highlights. Man of Steel emotionally resonated with me. But that’s cool that you like BVS, I personally just think Man of Steel is more engaging.

Edmund Meinerts

2018-03-17 18:09:01

"I do think he knows how to place emphasis on music as opposed to Joss Whedon or any of the other studio director who treats it like a byproduct."

I agree with you, except that Snyder and I have very different ideas about what makes good (film) music, and how to emphasize it. Ridley Scott is a somewhat similar case. Somehow he has gotten a ton of great music written for his movies over the years despite the fact that his musical instincts are really strange and misguided sometimes. At least Snyder doesn't butcher the scores he gets.

You're right that a director like Whedon doesn't seem to pay that much attention to how music can enhance his movie. But as someone who cares about film music 95% of the time as albums, not in film, I often find that a director who gets out of the way and just trusts the composer to do his/her thing is preferable to one who gets overly involved with the scoring process and has lots of ideas about how things should sound. That the subsequent scores end up buried or ineffective in their films is a shame, but the music at least tends to be good on its own terms.

Mephariel

2018-03-17 18:53:35

I don't think Junkie XL picks the shittest films to work on. It's just that art film directors won't choose him to score their films. Even in RCP, a lot of his colleagues are more well respected than he is. I would argue Benjamin Wallfisch is already more well regarded. Mad Max is an exception because of its unique setting and story line.

Olive

2018-03-18 17:04:34

Wallfisch has shown himself to be a superior composer to XL, let's face it. I do not even see why he's running after Zimmer since he's able to run a career himself.

@TheZimmerFan

<But the score by Elfman is miles better than MoS and BvS (for those two, BvS is much interesting and better than MoS, which is only good)>

The music is less simplistic and may please the purists, but, no, MoS and BvS are better by a small margin than JL by one factor: thematic material and characterization of the movie. Elfman should have had more freedom to work on the themes he and Williams wrote.

MrZimmerFan

2018-03-18 17:46:31

@Olive: Is better because there is variety and orchestration, and i'm not a purist (i liked BvS, there is more complexity in it than in MoS), but Danny Elfman has more integrity in that score than in that two scores.

Hybrid Soldier

2018-03-18 17:50:20

Elfman's score is like Whedon, horrendous & out of place.

mpolonest123

2018-03-18 17:54:34

@EdmundI’m in the same boat. When I watch a movie I normally don’t pay attention to the music unless it’s really distinctive. As a stand alone listening experience I usually want to get music that fits a mood and can hold my interest throughout. Take Silvestri’s Avengers score for example. The big statements of the main theme and some of the action cues are excellent. Unfortunately it’s surrounded by generic underscore that slows the album down imo. But then you have TASM2, which constantly has something going on no matter what. I feel like that’s something which does relate to the directors, not so much the talent level of the composers.

@oliveBen Wallfisch is LEAGUES ahead of JXL as a composer, partly because he’s had years of experience in film composing. Hopefully his recent successes give him more high profile projects.

As for Justice League, I actually love that score, but I think the main issue is Elfman completely ignoring what came before and trying to force in the classic themes. Had he done his own spin on Zimmer’s material there would a better connection to the previous ones.

Hybrid Soldier

2018-03-18 17:58:58

Leagues above, and yet I doubt Ben will ever be able to write something like "Brothers In Arms" from Mad Max.

Comparing people is kinda useless...

The only who's right is Hans in the end, he knows when to use one and when to use the other... ;)

Edmund Meinerts

2018-03-18 18:23:46

"Elfman's score is like Whedon, horrendous & out of place."

Out of place, yes. Horrendous, no.

Mephariel

2018-03-18 18:53:39

@Olive

Wallfisch's career unquestionably benefited from his involvement with Zimmer. He wouldn't have gotten a chance to work on blockbuster films like Dunkirk, Blade Runner 2049 without Zimmer's influence. Wallfisch is a very talented composer, but let's be honest here, his music doesn't immediately strikes anyone as a big action guy. Having Zimmer's name pushing you helps.

Olive

2018-03-19 00:48:12

@MrZimmerFan

<Is better because there is variety and orchestration>

It is not because a score is orchestrated that it is automatically superior to one half orchestrated and half electronic. My problem with JL is that it's a small score for a composer with as many facets as Elfman. The music is uninspired and (taking one or another track) ends as it begins, nothing catches yours ears beyond of the romantic moments and of the new interpretations of the themes for the heroes.

@mpolonest

<I actually love that score, but I think the main issue is Elfman completely ignoring what came before and trying to force the classic themes.>

Elfman had two paths: Ignore everything and do things his way or respect what Zimmer did and maintain the sound of previous films. What did he do? He made an uninspiring hybrid of both.

@HybridSoldier

<Leagues above, and yet I doubt Ben will be able to write something like "Brothers In Arms" from Mad Max.>

Everyone in RCP knows how to do a power anthem these days.

@Mephariel

<I would not have gotten a chance to work on blockbuster films like Dunkirk, Blade Runner 2049 without Zimmer's influence.>

Obviously not. It could be in smaller jobs and present some potential for years to come.

Ds

2018-03-19 17:18:53

Olive, if you think Brothers In Arms is nothing more than a RCP power anthem, then you're obviously missing something... To me it's one of the most brilliant action tracks of the last few years.

It is somewhat bizarre that you all are thinking directors actually want to work with Junkie. Surely, the only reason anyone hires him is that they want Zimmer who is not available. Yes, some may have heard Mad Max but it would be silly to think anyone actively wants a Junk score.

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Olive

2018-03-18 16:50:10

It's a half-truth to everyone who makes up the RCP team, unfortunately.

But I honestly doubt that ANYONE wants to work with XL.

Snyder worked with him 3 times. 300, BvS and Man of Steel. Sometimes I even get the impression that he's always liked Tom's approach more than Zimmer's approach. See all the percussion and synths of all those scores that are far more present in the Xl field than Zimmer's.

There’s no doubt going to be drums. What I’m personally hoping to see is less sound design and more traditional themes.

Olive

2018-02-14 21:56:25

I’m personally hoping to see a bunch of fun tracks! We deserve it!

mpolonest123

2018-02-14 22:50:00

@olive If we get anything on the level of “Roland of Eld” or Point Break, that would be awesome!

Olive

2018-02-15 01:42:41

I wish so much more! The movie promises to be as good as the last Jumanji! I'm not a big fan of Point Break or Dark Tower, but I think XL has a lot of stuff to explore this time, like in Mad Max.It does not have to be anything extraordinary, just something that gives life to the film.

MrZimmerFan

2018-02-15 14:30:32

I like Dark Tower, not a terrific score, but i liked it.

But Point Break... oh, god

Krazkor

2018-02-15 23:00:00

Point Break is fantastic!!!!

Anonymous

2018-02-16 02:03:04

welp, looks like we're back to the whole "tom holkenborg aka junkie XL" thing again

Ian

2018-02-16 19:11:46

Funnily enough, I'm far more critical of Hans than Junkie, given how much the former relies on ghostwriters, but the fact of the matter is that Hans fundamentally understands how to write a film score, and Junkie, from what I've heard, simply doesn't. Mad Max, although a success, is more a function of the film suiting an extremely rhythmic, percussive sound, rather than Junkie being competent, IMHO. So - somewhat joking here, as I know it won't happen - I'd be down for Hans writing a suite for this and Junkie basically copy/pasting it into the film.

Olive

2018-02-16 20:43:48

Hans does not have the credit as a producer on this.

XL is limited, I agree, but I hope he does something fun (the film is not even taken seriously).

mpolonest123

2018-02-16 21:22:42

It’s interesting with Junkie. As a composer on a purely scene basis, he’s not that good (this is coming from someone who loves his music). My primary issue with him is that he tends to score scenes with ambience, or stretched out sound design. That was a huge problem I had with Dark Tower.

But like I said elsewhere, he’s still growing as a composer. Watch something like Black Mass where the music in film complements the scenes amazingly.

Hybrid Soldier

2018-02-16 23:00:50

The funny thing with Dark Tower, is that the production was so lost they made him write the score 3 times... Who knows what were the other versions like...

mpolonest123

2018-02-16 23:27:29

@Hybrid Really? I guess it’s not a total surprise considering how much of a mess the film turned out to be. Divergent was a similar situation where the score in-film was butchered...