not being 4.0+ GHz or better
not having 1 Tb 15K rpm 1.8" drive
no Blu-Ray burners
doesn't fold up to fit in your shirt pocket
doesn't unfold to a 30" screen
still needs a battery and/or AC power supply
costs more than USD $10
doesn't include lifetime free update versions of all Apple, M$ and Adobe software
no $10 million lifetime data loss insurance guarantee, with "no proof of purchase/no questions asked" payout

It's getting to where I don't know what's worse: Windows zealots who think their choices are golden, or Mac zealots who think their choices are crap.

I am looking to buy my first Macbook (Pro) but I am having a hard time deciding between the op of the line Black MB and the entry level MBP. A little bit about my computer needs....I dont play any games....mostly surfing the net, might purchase Aperture 2 so I can edit some family photos, watch dvds burn cds, music.

I am usually the person that likes to buy the "best" or "top of the line" products so I am stuck between the 2 Apple products. I figured it would be $500 more for the MBP.

Opinions...thoughts or suggestions?

Based on your needs, it sounds like you'll do just fine with a standard MacBook. Having said that, will you be need to burn your own DVDs? How attractive is the Multi-Touch Trackpad to you?

If either of the above are high on the desirability factor, then you should consider stumping up to a MacBook Pro.

P.S. sorry guys, i was really angry when i started writing this. am still angry but not as much. i guess i'll order my laptop from the states. alot cheaper with better specs. only problem is i'll have to pay for a new power adapter *apples ones are expensive* and the keyboard has an american layout so i'll have to get used to that. *sigh*

Actually, LED backlit displays are now standard on all of the MacBook Pros. (Previously they were only in the 15" models.)

The following clip is from the Apple-Store MBP 17", only the last two options use LEDs and cost $100 more:

Display
Choose between two resolution options for the 17-inch (diagonal) display on your MacBook Pro. With either resolution, choose a standard antiglare display or a glossy display that lets you view graphics, photos, and videos with richer color and deeper blacks.

I thought they might update the MBP's with a new keyboard, multi-touch, hi-res 15" screen, and some more realistic specs across the board (I know they've done *some* of this). It seems like they've done a good job of getting people (as in the general public) interested in Apple products again, but I feel like they should be forcing people to find reasons NOT to switch. I know it's difficult to compare like for like between Apple products and 'regular' PCs, but it's hard not to find higher spec, cheaper PCs appealing in some way.

I feel like I've been waiting ages for a real meaty update to the 15" MBP, and this update has pretty much made my mind up to get a cheaper stop-gap PC laptop until they do a proper update (which I'm guessing will now be towards the end of the year when the new processors come out). I felt like the original MBP was released more out of necessity for the Intel update to the PowerBook line than a bold new product.

Well, I like the (slightly) increased speeds of the new MacBook processors, but why did they lower the L2 Cache? I'm also disappointed about them not giving the MB Multi-Touch trackpads, but... I can wait until they add them to switch from my 2.16ghz, 2gb MBP down to a 2.1+ghz, 4gb MB.

Also, a word to the wise. I have a MBP (2.16ghz CD, 2gb RAM) and a MB (2.0ghz C2D, 2gb RAM). As for people who are looking for a laptop, the MB is VERY capable of doing ANYTHING that my MBP can, except some games and high-end graphic design (and those limits are only there because of the video card). On a daily basis, the MB has longer battery life, and is almost identical speed-wise (I think usage habits and settings make-up the difference entirely). Plus, the MB runs at a cooler temp constantly. The only things that the MB cannot do are Port related, i.e. no ExpressCard slot, no dual-link dvi.

Here's the "in your face section:"
No remote on the new laptops, oh go cry about it, lol. How many people really use their remote often enough to warrant getting too upset over it, and is $19 that high of a price?
New case designs will come, sure they will, but give Apple a bit of time, they've had a full plate for a long time now... and besides, another had mentioned (which I am of the same opinion) that if they change the MBP or MB cases too soon right now, the MBA will loose a lot of attention.

I am looking to buy my first Macbook (Pro) but I am having a hard time deciding between the op of the line Black MB and the entry level MBP. A little bit about my computer needs....I dont play any games....mostly surfing the net, might purchase Aperture 2 so I can edit some family photos, watch dvds burn cds, music.

I am usually the person that likes to buy the "best" or "top of the line" products so I am stuck between the 2 Apple products. I figured it would be $500 more for the MBP.

Opinions...thoughts or suggestions?

I would definitely recommend that you go with the "entry level" MacBook Pro. When I replaced my Ti-Book I was financially strapped and had to settle for a MacBook. Every time I use the MB I regret my decision. The MacBook is far from graceful--it is a plastic hunk. Yea, I can drop it on carpeting and it bounces, but the tactile experience of plastic vs. aluminum is startling. Also the MB does not have the MBP's luminated keyboard--a feature I regret every night I used my MB in my darkened bedroom. The MB's graphics come at the expense of your memory and CPU as it is integrated in the CPU rather than "outsourcing" the graphic processing to a dedicated graphic card. The MBP will retain more of its value should you decide to sell it down the road to upgrade to a new MBP.

Get the MBP. You will not regret it.

I failed to mention that the gesture trackpad is a wonderful feature. After using the basic gestures that are part of iPhone's interface, I can testify that this is the interface of the future. When I test drove a MB Air, I was even more impressed with the expanded gesture capabilities.

Well, you seem to forget that before the update this was more than $800. No, I am not trying to play Apple's advocate, just to point out that if it is now a ripoff, then it was before a ripoff plus rape. Fortunately, no one and nothing forces you to buy RAM at these silly prices. There are however many people that will be caught in Apple's web because of ignorance about actual memory pricing.

I would definitely recommend that you go with the "entry level" MacBook Pro. When I replaced my Ti-Book I was financially strapped and had to settle for a MacBook. Every time I use the MB I regret my decision. The MacBook is far from graceful--it is a plastic hunk. Yea, I can drop it on carpeting and it bounces, but the tactile experience of plastic vs. aluminum is startling. Also the MB does not have the MBP's luminated keyboard--a feature I regret every night I used my MB in my darkened bedroom. The MB's graphics come at the expense of your memory and CPU as it is integrated in the CPU rather than "outsourcing" the graphic processing to a dedicated graphic card. The MBP will retain more of its value should you decide to sell it down the road to upgrade to a new MBP.

Get the MBP. You will not regret it.

Just when people had me leaning heavily on the Black MB you post this comment and I am nowsecond guessing myself again lol

if you have the money, get the macbook pro. aluminum is so much nicer than plastic. the illuminated keyboard is awesome and i prefer the keys they LEFT ON the pro's [thank you apple] to the "new standard". also, the integrated graphics on the macbooks are a killer.

bottom line, if the $500 means a lot to you go macbook, if not, go MBP

Why do we have to pay for a remote that was included before?
Bad move Apple

let's stop being little girls about this.
If the cost of a computer is 1099 bucks and the remote is 19, then just assume the cost of the computer is 1118 and compare that to your other options.
The number of people that do NOT want a remote and can now avoid having to pay for it is a good thing.

The price of the computer is based on the options you want.
Add up what you want, that's the price.
The idea that people will not buy this thing because the price of the remote added to the price quoted makes it not worth it..... is zero.

The macbook is still plastic with no LED(Steve promised a transition by this year)...and the MBPs except for the 17" don't have LEDs either.

The MBPs also still use the antiquated lid hook "latch" that is prone to breaking.

All this to me points to this as a nice speedbump stop gap until the real redesign happens. Intel is coming out with new chips in June...

Macbooks are usually updated in May.

This update will keep the sales churning. After all it's a nice little update(faster chip, larger hard drive) same price! Coolio. And the MBPs have the multi touch. Bummer it's not on the macbooks tho. Further indication that the line is in transition.

I don't think Apple wanted to release their full redesigns so soon after the Macbook Airs debut so they wouldn't steal it's thunder.

I'd guess by May/June Apple will be ready to unleash the new designs. Otherwise won't be until the fall. :-)

So many people seem to expect the MacBook to be a MacBook Pro. Hey, genius, you are buying the budget version of the machine. No, Apple doesn't need to add every bit of new tech into the budget machine. Besides, these things are EXTREMELY capable computers. Why must everybody act like a spoiled brat when they don't get everything for nothing? Grow up.

Please define "nothing".

Seems to me Apple is charging a rather lot of something for these machines. Especially outside the USA.

Stop playing it both ways and pretending it is as cheap and fully specced as a PC and then saying you can't expect standard PC hardware unless you pay much more.

Apple users are paying for and expect a restaurant meal, not a take away.

I failed to mention that the MBP features the innovative gesture interface. This is a tremendous feature. I love the limited gesture capabilities on my iPhone...and after test driving a MB Air I am even more an advocate of expanding the trackpad's capabilities.

I also wanted to add that not only is the 15" a sweet spot for screen size, but it also features the LED backlit screen which gives you instant on for screen brightness and tremendous clarity. I would not handicap myself with a MacBook because I am only thinking of my current needs. Aren't you wanting to grow in your application of a new computer? Trust me...this is a no brainer.

Just when people had me leaning heavily on the Black MB you post this comment and I am nowsecond guessing myself again lol

That "The MB's graphics come at the expense of your memory and CPU as it is integrated in the CPU rather than "outsourcing" the graphic processing to a dedicated graphic card." is completely wrong as far as I can tell, though. Some memory is used (about 144MB), but I don't think more CPU is used because of having integrated graphics.

I think the update is solid in the sense of it being a quiet update as Apple has done similarly in the past. I do think that people have been hanging on for a more serious upgrade, which is probably why some people are a bit upset.

Obviously any upgrade is good news!

It seems bizarre that Combo Drives still exist in the Apple line-up and more realistic memory pricing would be a help. The difference between getting an Apple memory upgrade, and getting it from somewhere like Crucial seems insane.

I suspect you'll see you new case design when the new Intel processors come out (about 6 months before we see them in Macs?). If Apple made this revision too drastic, they'd have taken the punch out of the rollout of new laptops with the new processor. And you'd risk a bunch of upset customers who bought the new design but missed out of the new processor.

By keeping this upgrade relatively minor, they managed both sets of expectations.

I agree - I think we'll see the updated design in the Sept - Nov timeframe...along with Montevina and what not.

let's stop being little girls about this.
If the cost of a computer is 1099 bucks and the remote is 19, then just assume the cost of the computer is 1118 and compare that to your other options.
The number of people that do NOT want a remote and can now avoid having to pay for it is a good thing.

The price of the computer is based on the options you want.
Add up what you want, that's the price.
The idea that people will not buy this thing because the price of the remote added to the price quoted makes it not worth it..... is zero.

Stop moaning like little girls.....

How does NOT getting what they gave you previously, without a price reduction, SAVE you anything.

Look in the mirror. See that's you, a person - not a corporation and definitely not Apple. Apple is a corporation and it is the one that has saved the money, not you.

It's an easy mistake to make:

A single solitary person with a couple of Gs to spend on a computer and:

Apple, one of the world's largest and most successful multi-billion dollar corporations that shaves a few bucks off the deal so it can skim a bit more off you and make yet another model short a feature or two.

Just when people had me leaning heavily on the Black MB you post this comment and I am nowsecond guessing myself again lol

Hey I wouldn't second guess yourself just based on what that guy said. That is HIS opinion.

Personally I think the excuse that the Macbook is somehow inferior because it doesn't have a back lit keyboard and he can't type in the dark is LAME. I'm sorry. I have never owned a mac laptop with a back lit keyboard, I've used ibooks and macbooks, and I've done fine. Your fingers have a memory, and if you use your laptop regularly, it becomes automatic. I can type fine in the dark.

I think the back lit keyboard is a gimmick at best. And that guy is just trying to justify his buying the more expensive macbook pro. I think there is nothing wrong with saying the back lit keyboard is cool...but to say that the macbook somehow is impossible to type on in the dark is silly. :-)

Penryn isn't a revolutionary processor - it's just a die shrink so an enclosure refresh or what not isn't a good idea especially with the MBA just coming out.

I think they've made the right decision here and the MBP was a good machine anyway. I reckon we will see better improvements when Montevina comes and it gives them time to figure out how to best adapt the machines to a whole new chipset.

Don't get me wrong, I am sincerely disgusted with Apple's RAM upgrade prices. Though, buying it elsewhere DOES NOT MEAN that it will be in the computer the moment you get the computer, and it does not mean that it'll be installed by an Apple tech/machine, and it does not mean that it'll be warranted under Apple's one-stop-shop. If your aftermarket RAM craps on yo, u have to send it to your supplier, and if it hurts your computer, you have to deal with them, and for a lot of people, it's hard to know what is what, how it works, where to put it, and what to do if it won't turn on (plug-in the cord, dummy).

Now, I do expect to pay more for Apple RAM than aftermarket RAM, and thats mainly because they have to install it, but if your computer is built-to-order, then the price really shouldn't be much higher than aftermarket. Though, that is just how the aftermarket is... cheap and robust.

Until Apple RAM upgrades are the same price as, or competitive enough that I don't care to take the 3 minutes to install aftermarket RAM myself, I'll still but from the lowest bidder (currently NewEgg).

I am looking to buy my first Macbook (Pro) but I am having a hard time deciding between the op of the line Black MB and the entry level MBP. A little bit about my computer needs....I dont play any games....mostly surfing the net, might purchase Aperture 2 so I can edit some family photos, watch dvds burn cds, music.

I am usually the person that likes to buy the "best" or "top of the line" products so I am stuck between the 2 Apple products. I figured it would be $500 more for the MBP.

Opinions...thoughts or suggestions?

For what it is worth, I bought the stock-standard, entry level MBP toward the end of last year. I thought too about the MB and know that every acquaintance of mine who has one is very pleased with it, however, I am equally pleased with my purchase and would not change my decision.

I am particularly fond of the LED back-lighting and illuminated keyboard (this is the first Apple notebook computer that I have been easily able to read in direct sunlight since the advent of active matrix displays). Mine shipped with 2GB of RAM.

I also am comfortable using the trackpad and think that the new gestures capability will prove a hit.

Um, doesn't the UK price include VAT? The US price is pretax. Add to that the fact that the dollar has been plummeting against the pound and you'd see why it would appear to be worth $3,155 when converted to USD. With the tax included in the price and the exchange rate at around two to one, you're also doubling the included tax.

I've been hanging on for this update for a couple of months. My PB 17" is up on eBay right now. :-D I'm delighted with the LED screens, processor and gfx card bumps and especially, the multitouch trackpads, which, I'm guessing, will drive a lot of GUI innovation in Mac software for some time. Also, I'm getting tired of lugging my 17-incher around; I agree with the poster who said 15" is a nice sweet spot.

Hopefully, one of our local Apple Stores has one of these new machines on display so I can play with it before ordering one.

Hey I wouldn't second guess yourself just based on what that guy said. That is HIS opinion.

Personally I think the excuse that the Macbook is somehow inferior because it doesn't have a back lit keyboard and he can't type in the dark is LAME. I'm sorry. I have never owned a mac laptop with a back lit keyboard, I've used ibooks and macbooks, and I've done fine. Your fingers have a memory, and if you use your laptop regularly, it becomes automatic. I can type fine in the dark.

I think the back lit keyboard is a gimmick at best. And that guy is just trying to justify his buying the more expensive macbook pro. I think there is nothing wrong with saying the back lit keyboard is cool...but to say that the macbook somehow is impossible to type on in the dark is silly. :-)

No...this guy (that would be me) is not "trying to justify his buying the more expensive MBP." As I said in my posting, due to financial constraints I compromised and bought the MacBook. I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with the backlit keyboard--that certainly was not my primary argument for buying a MacBook Pro--but it is a nice feature. Re-read my original posting and I think you will see that there are many more compelling reasons for selecting the MBP if your finances enable you to do so.

To the British dude worried about the top graphics card only being 256 MB -- if you go to the compare specs section on the British website, it lists the top-end 15" MacBook Pro as having a 512 MB graphics card, so I think it's a mistake on the main buy page.

Hopefully they'll make the correction soon.

By the way, I'm happy with the MacBook Pro upgrade -- yeah, it's modest, but frankly I love the design of the MacBook Pro, and think the keyboard on the Air looks cheap in comparison. No more waiting around for me -- I'm buying a Pro and I'll check back in five to seven years to see what's changed.