The man who’s feeding Donald Trump’s obsession with his own false voter fraud claims (because he can’t cope with losing the popular vote) appeared this morning on CNN. Chris Cuomo hosted Gregg Phillips, who developed an app, VoteStand, and who supports Trump’s feeling that his victory was undermined by over 3 million illegal votes. Neither Trump nor Phillips holds any evidence to support this claim (because no evidence exists), and the appearance did not go well.

Phillips doesn’t “know” any more than Trump does about these so-called illegal votes and didn’t prepare well for this interview. Cuomo eventually got Phillips to admit that it will be months before he can dig into the matter and provide something to back up Trump’s “rigged” election claims. Neither Trump nor Phillips seems to realize that they’re undermining a Trump victory, and the president believes this guy over U.S. intelligence’s “conclusive” evidence that Russia hacked in an effort to help him win.

The VoteStand app has six iTunes reviews and has been downloaded a few thousand times. Phillips first drew some attention after conspiracy theorist Alex Jones promoted his wares and the false claim that “three million votes in the U.S. presidential election were cast by illegal aliens.”