gcomeau wrote:I'm not sure whether to characterize it as funny, sad, or frightening that at this stage in things after everything that has happened you are still capable of characterizing Trump's antics as "tactics" or use the word "effective" to describe them.

Did you *see* that press conference yesterday? This is not some kind of clever ploy, he's just losing his grip and falling back on ever more insistent denials of reality in reaction.

I don't view the world with the same lens as you do. I saw a hostile press get its head handed to it. I saw a bunch of self serving egomaniacal morons attack the President and the President push back hard. I saw an egotistical President bloviate and embellish upon rather unimportant things while his actions comport with my expectation given his campaign promisses.

In short I saw political theater at its finest which will tend to promote those policies I generally support. All else is dross at the moment.

You now those comments I've made several times regarding rose colored glasses?

Nevermind. This has stopped really being something I can refer to in joking terms anymore and that framing is just wholly inadequate to describe what you are saying.

Good. Grief.

So just spell this out for me Peter.

TRUMP: "I had the biggest Electoral College victory since Reagan!"

PRESS: "This one was bigger... this one was bigger... this one was bigger... why should people believe anything you're saying when you keep saying untrue things?"

TRUMP: "Well... ummm..... ummm... that was something I was told"....

The press getting it's head handed to it? THAT is what you saw happen there? THAT is your description of that series of events?

The president is blatantly lying his ass off and the press doesn't like it... TAKE THAT HOSTILE PRESS!!!! TRUMP IS OWNING YOU!!!

You now those comments I've made several times regarding rose colored glasses?

Nevermind. This has stopped really being something I can refer to in joking terms anymore and that framing is just wholly inadequate to describe what you are saying.

Good. Grief.

So just spell this out for me Peter.

TRUMP: "I had the biggest Electoral College victory since Reagan!"

PRESS: "This one was bigger... this one was bigger... this one was bigger... why should people believe anything you're saying when you keep saying untrue things?"

TRUMP: "Well... ummm..... ummm... that was something I was told"....

The press getting it's head handed to it? THAT is what you saw happen there? THAT is your description of that series of events?

The president is blatantly lying his ass off and the press doesn't like it... TAKE THAT HOSTILE PRESS!!!! TRUMP IS OWNING YOU!!!

That is your take on this? Seriously?

Reagan used his congeniality to bypass the press and a hostile congress to go straight to the American people. Trump is using his rather abrasive personality to keep the press distracted by true irrelevancies from better mischaracterizing his policies. Both used their personal skills to defang a hostile press to better enact the policies they wished to promote.

My take on Trump's bloviating? Who the F**k cares if the man uselessly embellishes...unreasonably embellishes even.. details that exaggerates his sense of self worth? What I care about is if he is delivering on his campaign promisses. He is doing that despite a press that is much more hostile than Reagan ever faced. If the reason for his success necessitates his being a prick, I'll take his being a prick.

I don't have to like the man, just like the policies he succeeds in enacting.

My take on Trump's bloviating? Who the F**k cares if the man uselessly embellishes...unreasonably embellishes even.. details that exaggerates his sense of self worth? What I care about is if he is delivering on his campaign promisses. He is doing that despite a press that is much more hostile than Reagan ever faced. If the reason for his success necessitates his being a prick, I'll take his being a prick.

I don't have to like the man, just like the policies he succeeds in enacting.

You now those comments I've made several times regarding rose colored glasses?

Nevermind. This has stopped really being something I can refer to in joking terms anymore and that framing is just wholly inadequate to describe what you are saying.

Good. Grief.

So just spell this out for me Peter.

TRUMP: "I had the biggest Electoral College victory since Reagan!"

PRESS: "This one was bigger... this one was bigger... this one was bigger... why should people believe anything you're saying when you keep saying untrue things?"

TRUMP: "Well... ummm..... ummm... that was something I was told"....

The press getting it's head handed to it? THAT is what you saw happen there? THAT is your description of that series of events?

The president is blatantly lying his ass off and the press doesn't like it... TAKE THAT HOSTILE PRESS!!!! TRUMP IS OWNING YOU!!!

That is your take on this? Seriously?

Reagan used his congeniality to bypass the press and a hostile congress to go straight to the American people. Trump is using his rather abrasive personality to keep the press distracted by true irrelevancies from better mischaracterizing his policies. Both used their personal skills to defang a hostile press to better enact the policies they wished to promote.

My take on Trump's bloviating? Who the F**k cares if the man uselessly embellishes...unreasonably embellishes even.. details that exaggerates his sense of self worth? What I care about is if he is delivering on his campaign promisses. He is doing that despite a press that is much more hostile than Reagan ever faced. If the reason for his success necessitates his being a prick, I'll take his being a prick.

I don't have to like the man, just like the policies he succeeds in enacting.

And in the process, he's taking a wrecking ball to your country's system of checks and balances as well as standards of good governance. Is that worrh it to you to get your agenda passed? And do you think your side will be in power forever? That your political opponents won't use this precedent to justify the same?

Eyal wrote:And in the process, he's taking a wrecking ball to your country's system of checks and balances as well as standards of good governance. Is that worrh it to you to get your agenda passed? And do you think your side will be in power forever? That your political opponents won't use this precedent to justify the same?

How so? The press? They are not checking anyone they agree with and swoon over certain personages like Obama. At least now they are challenging the President rather than looking with adoring eyes at him. The Courts? The 9th circus is standing up nicely to the President.

If you are implying that challenging the press destroys their credibility, then their credibility is much weaker than it needs to be. That is the problem not the challenge.

You now those comments I've made several times regarding rose colored glasses?

Nevermind. This has stopped really being something I can refer to in joking terms anymore and that framing is just wholly inadequate to describe what you are saying.

Good. Grief.

So just spell this out for me Peter.

TRUMP: "I had the biggest Electoral College victory since Reagan!"

PRESS: "This one was bigger... this one was bigger... this one was bigger... why should people believe anything you're saying when you keep saying untrue things?"

TRUMP: "Well... ummm..... ummm... that was something I was told"....

The press getting it's head handed to it? THAT is what you saw happen there? THAT is your description of that series of events?

The president is blatantly lying his ass off and the press doesn't like it... TAKE THAT HOSTILE PRESS!!!! TRUMP IS OWNING YOU!!!

That is your take on this? Seriously?

Reagan used his congeniality to bypass the press and a hostile congress to go straight to the American people. Trump is using his rather abrasive personality to keep the press distracted by true irrelevancies from better mischaracterizing his policies. Both used their personal skills to defang a hostile press to better enact the policies they wished to promote.

My take on Trump's bloviating? Who the F**k cares if the man uselessly embellishes...unreasonably embellishes even.. details that exaggerates his sense of self worth? What I care about is if he is delivering on his campaign promisses. He is doing that despite a press that is much more hostile than Reagan ever faced. If the reason for his success necessitates his being a prick, I'll take his being a prick.

I don't have to like the man, just like the policies he succeeds in enacting.

You are just whitewashing a large chunk of what we are talking about.

You talk about "bypassing the press" and going straight to the american people. But he's telling the EXACT SAME LIES when he tweets to those people. He's telling the EXACT SAME LIES when he goes out and holds rallies for those people.

And it's not just feel good personal embellishments. Claiming the homicide rate is at all time record highs is not some ego stroking fib. It's a fear mongering insidious falsehood.

So I want you to be clear here Peter. Now that Trump is in office is it your position that the President of the United States *constantly* lying to the entire country... does not matter?

PeterZ wrote:Reagan used his congeniality to bypass the press and a hostile congress to go straight to the American people. Trump is using his rather abrasive personality to keep the press distracted by true irrelevancies from better mischaracterizing his policies. Both used their personal skills to defang a hostile press to better enact the policies they wished to promote.

My take on Trump's bloviating? Who the F**k cares if the man uselessly embellishes...unreasonably embellishes even.. details that exaggerates his sense of self worth? What I care about is if he is delivering on his campaign promisses. He is doing that despite a press that is much more hostile than Reagan ever faced. If the reason for his success necessitates his being a prick, I'll take his being a prick.

I don't have to like the man, just like the policies he succeeds in enacting.

You are just whitewashing a large chunk of what we are talking about.

You talk about "bypassing the press" and going straight to the american people. But he's telling the EXACT SAME LIES when he tweets to those people. He's telling the EXACT SAME LIES when he goes out and holds rallies for those people.

And it's not just feel good personal embellishments. Claiming the homicide rate is at all time record highs is not some ego stroking fib. It's a fear mongering insidious falsehood.

So I want you to be clear here Peter. Now that Trump is in office is it your position that the President of the United States *constantly* lying to the entire country... does not matter?

The honesty of the President of the United States is irrelevant?

Sure honesty is important. Wasn't given much choice about honesty in the election, was I?

Had to choose between a lying sack of shit who saw nothing wrong with letting her subordinates die and then lying about it and a braggadocious exaggerator with a propensity to make himself grander than he really was (redundancy for emphasis). I chose the latter and would choose that way again. Doesn't make me happy with the menu options.

Regardless of how unhappy I was and am with that choice, Trump is at least keeping the promisses he made. Small favors are worth being happy with. That and the entertainment value.

gcomeau wrote:You are just whitewashing a large chunk of what we are talking about.

You talk about "bypassing the press" and going straight to the american people. But he's telling the EXACT SAME LIES when he tweets to those people. He's telling the EXACT SAME LIES when he goes out and holds rallies for those people.

And it's not just feel good personal embellishments. Claiming the homicide rate is at all time record highs is not some ego stroking fib. It's a fear mongering insidious falsehood.

So I want you to be clear here Peter. Now that Trump is in office is it your position that the President of the United States *constantly* lying to the entire country... does not matter?

The honesty of the President of the United States is irrelevant?

Sure honesty is important. Wasn't given much choice about honesty in the election, was I?

Umm, yes. Yes you were. Even if we pretend there were only two choices... you still were. A damn stark choice.

Had to choose between a lying sack of shit who saw nothing wrong with letting her subordinates die and then lying about it

Oh FFS... Do we *really* have to go through this again?

SEVEN INVESTIGATIONS.

Mostly Republican Led. All saying the same damn thing.

They. Didn't. Lie. About. Benghazi.

This has been pointed out and explained to you over and over and you never provide a counter argument. You just go back to saying they lied about it again with zero support.

and a braggadocious exaggerator with a propensity to make himself grander than he really was (redundancy for emphasis). I chose the latter and would choose that way again. Doesn't make me happy with the menu options.

Perhaps because you keep insisting on refusing to acknowledge the truth about what either of those menu options was.

Was Clinton a shining beacon of honesty? Of course not. But she wasn't telling the sinister falsehoods you keep claiming she was. Her lies were of the usual political class of truth bending and obfuscation. Not good, but not what you keep claiming it was.

And Trump's pathological encyclopedia of lies goes so far beyond "braggadocio" and "exaggeration" it beggars belief that you keep portraying it that way.

I take my hat off to you Peter. Steadfast and fighting to the end.Looking on from a distance this circus is entertaining, I just hope he doesn't do something permanently stupid and serious.I know that Australia doesn't rate despite supporting US military adventures more than any other country, but to have Trump's latest dismissal of the phone call scandal between us as being "At least it wasn't with anyone important" hasn't gone over well. Even our conservatives are talking about reconsidering our automatic military support.