I don't think it is. I think any thinking species may want to end a miserable existence. There was video of a Moon Bear who essentially committed murder and suicide. She'd been being used for years in a Vietnam bile farm. They basically strap the bars down in a metal cage / coffin, insert a tube into their stomachs and milk out the bile. They keep them like that for years. It wasn't made clear on the video if she was pregnant when they captured her and gestated there, or if they ran a breeding program as well (or maybe it was, I don't understand Vietnamese). Anyway, the video shows them letting her out of this coffin briefly, with her baby. She snapped its neck and ran into a wall head first until she was dead. Very graphic.

I need a stiff drink after reading that. Uugh.

This is what makes me think there's no God. The extended-use farms like this, crappy zoos with lame enclosures, etc. Even in some sort of karmic situation, the animal will lose anyway. But, at the same time, I wish those beasts being treated/held in an unfortunate manner get their chances. Certain people are assholes. Can't we just get rid of them in the Roman way?

I'd grab a bowl of popcorn and sit back and watch. Rooting for the animal all the way.

I don't think it is. I think any thinking species may want to end a miserable existence. There was video of a Moon Bear who essentially committed murder and suicide. She'd been being used for years in a Vietnam bile farm. They basically strap the bars down in a metal cage / coffin, insert a tube into their stomachs and milk out the bile. They keep them like that for years. It wasn't made clear on the video if she was pregnant when they captured her and gestated there, or if they ran a breeding program as well (or maybe it was, I don't understand Vietnamese). Anyway, the video shows them letting her out of this coffin briefly, with her baby. She snapped its neck and ran into a wall head first until she was dead. Very graphic.

I need a stiff drink after reading that. Uugh.

This is what makes me think there's no God. The extended-use farms like this, crappy zoos with lame enclosures, etc. Even in some sort of karmic situation, the animal will lose anyway. But, at the same time, I wish those beasts being treated/held in an unfortunate manner get their chances. Certain people are assholes. Can't we just get rid of them in the Roman way?

DeadMouseTails:smittyg: Ever stop to wonder if suicide isn't exclusive to the human species?

I don't think it is. I think any thinking species may want to end a miserable existence. There was video of a Moon Bear who essentially committed murder and suicide. She'd been being used for years in a Vietnam bile farm. They basically strap the bars down in a metal cage / coffin, insert a tube into their stomachs and milk out the bile. They keep them like that for years. It wasn't made clear on the video if she was pregnant when they captured her and gestated there, or if they ran a breeding program as well (or maybe it was, I don't understand Vietnamese). Anyway, the video shows them letting her out of this coffin briefly, with her baby. She snapped its neck and ran into a wall head first until she was dead. Very graphic.

I don't think it is. I think any thinking species may want to end a miserable existence. There was video of a Moon Bear who essentially committed murder and suicide. She'd been being used for years in a Vietnam bile farm. They basically strap the bars down in a metal cage / coffin, insert a tube into their stomachs and milk out the bile. They keep them like that for years. It wasn't made clear on the video if she was pregnant when they captured her and gestated there, or if they ran a breeding program as well (or maybe it was, I don't understand Vietnamese). Anyway, the video shows them letting her out of this coffin briefly, with her baby. She snapped its neck and ran into a wall head first until she was dead. Very graphic.

I need a stiff drink after reading that. Uugh.

This is what makes me think there's no God. The extended-use farms like this, crappy zoos with lame enclosures, etc. Even in some sort of karmic situation, the animal will lose anyway. But, at the same time, I wish those beasts being treated/held in an unfortunate manner get their chances. Certain people are assholes. Can't we just get rid of them in the Roman way?

I'd grab a bowl of popcorn and sit back and watch. Rooting for the animal all the way.

That's a terribly sad story, although in some way I am glad that the bear was relieved of her suffering. Most of the time I hate this world and all of the hate and barbaric cruelty that exists here, particularly toward animals. I would definitely be rooting for the beasts all the way, as well.

Sir_Spanksalot:I lived in Indonesia for four and a half years. If I was unable to purchase a flight out I'd hang myself aswell.

I toured the Surabaya Zoo in 1991. Conditions for the animals made me want to hang myself too. But I was approached by a middle-aged dude with a green kretek tongue who asked if I wanted to go home with him and play like monkeys at the zoo . . . so I have that going for me?

I don't think it is. I think any thinking species may want to end a miserable existence. There was video of a Moon Bear who essentially committed murder and suicide. She'd been being used for years in a Vietnam bile farm. They basically strap the bars down in a metal cage / coffin, insert a tube into their stomachs and milk out the bile. They keep them like that for years. It wasn't made clear on the video if she was pregnant when they captured her and gestated there, or if they ran a breeding program as well (or maybe it was, I don't understand Vietnamese). Anyway, the video shows them letting her out of this coffin briefly, with her baby. She snapped its neck and ran into a wall head first until she was dead. Very graphic.

I need a stiff drink after reading that. Uugh.

This is what makes me think there's no God. The extended-use farms like this, crappy zoos with lame enclosures, etc. Even in some sort of karmic situation, the animal will lose anyway. But, at the same time, I wish those beasts being treated/held in an unfortunate manner get their chances. Certain people are assholes. Can't we just get rid of them in the Roman way?