Replying to Boston to Phoenix Plane and Train?

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George Harris

Posted 22 April 2009 - 02:44 PM

phoenix did have rail service at one time

Amtrak's reliance on freight railroads also has caused its service elimination. Passenger rail service was entirely discontinued to Phoenix, Arizona, in 1997, after the Union Pacific Railroad, which owns the tracks that served Phoenix, announced that it was abandoning the right of way. Amtrak did not have the funds to maintain the trackage. Today, the city proper is served only by Thruway Motorcoach, although Amtrak rail service is available about 37 miles (60 km) to the south in the rural town of Maricopa (Phoenix passengers also travel often to Tucson or Flagstaff by car or Greyhound bus to pick up those Amtrak trains which continue to make stops in those cities).

As is frequently the case, Wiki does not have it right. The following I put in an earlier thread:

This discussion comes up every few months. Go back to a thread in mid 2008 titled The Sun Never Sets in Phoenix.

I said this at that time:

Other than the date of change, which I really don't know the rest is somewhat less than accurate, which seems to be the norm for Wiki. Here are the facts:

The southern line, which UP calls the Gila subdivision was the original Southern Paciifc mainline. The loop through Phoenix was built much later, in the 1920's, and was always at best a secondary main built primarily so through passenger trains could serve Phoenix. It ran from Wellton at milepost 770.7 (zero at San Francisco) to Picacho. At Picacho the milepost is 979.7 on the Phoenix line but only 936.7 via the main through Maricopa. Thus, the route is 166.0 miles on the main and 209.0 miles through Phoenix, an additional distance of 43.0 miles. Phoenix yard is at milepost 907.0, so this 209 mile length represents 137.3 miles west of Phoenix with almost nothing there and 72.7 miles east of Phoenix through Tempe and a few other places.

The Phoenix line was all jointed rail with an automatic block signal system with semaphores. Generally the passenger train speed limit was 60 mph, although some parts east of Phoenix allowed 70 mph. Pictures I have seen of the line west show the rail as being 113 lb, a section unique to the SP and long obsolete and out of production. By the early 90's this line was needing major rail relay, major tie replacement, and signal system upgrades. The decision was make to concetrate on the 70 miles east of Phoenix in order to maintain freigth access to the city rather than attempt to keep the entire 209 miles up for 60 mph service.

To the best of my knowledge the track is all still in place, but not all in service, and the signal system is likewise all in place, but likely not functional for most or the line west.

With the same weasel words, here is the current status of the line as given in the employee timetable, going from west to east.

Summarizing: For the 135.3 miles west of the Phoenix station, 51.2 miles is out of service and the remainder has a speed limit of 25 mph or less. But, it is all still there.

Wild guess: about $200 to $300 million to get the Phoenix line west to the point that it could carry the Sunset at 60 mph or 79 mph. (The difference in cost for getting it in condition for 60 mph and for 79 mph would be next to nothing.) There is no way that it makes sense for Amtrak or the state of Arizona to spend that kind of money for a three times a week train, and for sure it makes no sense for UP to spend it. The additional 43 miles and going through a major urban area is why it also make no sense for UP to increase the Sunset Route capacity by upgrading the Phoenix line for part of a directional running system with the Gila line instead of what they are doing, which is adding a second main along their original main line through a mostly unpopulated desert. Now, if it was decided to operate multiple passenger trains per day between Arizona and Los Angeles, that could change the picture.

amtrakwolverine

Posted 22 April 2009 - 07:08 AM

phoenix did have rail service at one time

Amtrak's reliance on freight railroads also has caused its service elimination. Passenger rail service was entirely discontinued to Phoenix, Arizona, in 1997, after the Union Pacific Railroad, which owns the tracks that served Phoenix, announced that it was abandoning the right of way. Amtrak did not have the funds to maintain the trackage. Today, the city proper is served only by Thruway Motorcoach, although Amtrak rail service is available about 37 miles (60 km) to the south in the rural town of Maricopa (Phoenix passengers also travel often to Tucson or Flagstaff by car or Greyhound bus to pick up those Amtrak trains which continue to make stops in those cities).

jmbgeg

Posted 22 April 2009 - 07:02 AM

There has been discussion as to why Amtrak does not have Amtrak service. What is the story on Phoenix?

edding

Posted 22 April 2009 - 12:16 AM

Hey everyone!Just wanted to report that I am back from my trip to Phoenix/Flagstaff on the Southwest Chief and Lake Shore Limited with my bonus trip on one of the Northeast regional trains between NYC and Boston.

Overall, it was a spectular trip..even with my bad leg. I had many,many, MANY fantastic Amtrak staff helping me throughout -- I intend to write a letter (any ideas who to send to?)

Also, I will write about my trip in the Travelogue and if anyone is interested in photos of the accessible bedrooms on the LSL and the Southwest Chief, I took some and they turned out very well. I would be happy to email to anyone thinking of using those rooms on those trains.

It all ended too soon ...but it was worth every mile!

Glad is was a good trip for you!!!! I was wondering how it went.. waiting patiently for your trip report!!!!

Please address your compliments to the Amtrak attendants to the Hon. John McCain and the Hon. Jon Kyl. Suggest they support HSR from Phoenix to San Diego. Ask them why Phoenix is the largest city in the country without Amtrak service.

Glad you had a great trip! You left Phoenix just in time -- the heat's back( flirting with 100). Although this actually isn't that early and hopefully we'll get a short reprieve before the 6 mths of He** descends. While writing the Arizona Senators is a good idea in theory, it's unfortunately the literal definition of "falling on deaf ears". I'd write Harry Mitchell ( my representative and a sane voice in the desert wilderness)_ or Ed Pastor. Glad you had a good safe trip.

Ed

birdy

Posted 21 April 2009 - 11:43 PM

Hey everyone!Just wanted to report that I am back from my trip to Phoenix/Flagstaff on the Southwest Chief and Lake Shore Limited with my bonus trip on one of the Northeast regional trains between NYC and Boston.

Overall, it was a spectular trip..even with my bad leg. I had many,many, MANY fantastic Amtrak staff helping me throughout -- I intend to write a letter (any ideas who to send to?)

Also, I will write about my trip in the Travelogue and if anyone is interested in photos of the accessible bedrooms on the LSL and the Southwest Chief, I took some and they turned out very well. I would be happy to email to anyone thinking of using those rooms on those trains.

It all ended too soon ...but it was worth every mile!

Glad is was a good trip for you!!!! I was wondering how it went.. waiting patiently for your trip report!!!!

Please address your compliments to the Amtrak attendants to the Hon. John McCain and the Hon. Jon Kyl. Suggest they support HSR from Phoenix to San Diego. Ask them why Phoenix is the largest city in the country without Amtrak service.

sunchaser

Posted 21 April 2009 - 04:42 PM

Hey everyone!Just wanted to report that I am back from my trip to Phoenix/Flagstaff on the Southwest Chief and Lake Shore Limited with my bonus trip on one of the Northeast regional trains between NYC and Boston.

Overall, it was a spectular trip..even with my bad leg. I had many,many, MANY fantastic Amtrak staff helping me throughout -- I intend to write a letter (any ideas who to send to?)

Also, I will write about my trip in the Travelogue and if anyone is interested in photos of the accessible bedrooms on the LSL and the Southwest Chief, I took some and they turned out very well. I would be happy to email to anyone thinking of using those rooms on those trains.

It all ended too soon ...but it was worth every mile!

Glad is was a good trip for you!!!! I was wondering how it went.. waiting patiently for your trip report!!!!

sky12065

Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:52 PM

Hey everyone!Just wanted to report that I am back from my trip to Phoenix/Flagstaff on the Southwest Chief and Lake Shore Limited with my bonus trip on one of the Northeast regional trains between NYC and Boston.

Overall, it was a spectular trip..even with my bad leg. I had many,many, MANY fantastic Amtrak staff helping me throughout -- I intend to write a letter (any ideas who to send to?)

Also, I will write about my trip in the Travelogue and if anyone is interested in photos of the accessible bedrooms on the LSL and the Southwest Chief, I took some and they turned out very well. I would be happy to email to anyone thinking of using those rooms on those trains.

It all ended too soon ...but it was worth every mile!

I too will be in the H room of the LSL & SWC in a little over two months. Did you carve your initials anywhere in the room so I can tell if I got the same room(s)?

Don't forget to take the survey and enter the sweepstakes if it's not too late!

You can email your comments to Amtrak about your trip experiences. Click here: Contact Us

ALC Rail Writer

Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:46 PM

Hey everyone! Just wanted to report that I am back... a spectacular trip...

Great news! Looking forward to reading your Trip Report!

1500 words by tomorrow if it pleases...

p&sr

Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:25 PM

Hey everyone! Just wanted to report that I am back... a spectacular trip...

Great news! Looking forward to reading your Trip Report!

JackieTakestheTrain

Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:10 PM

Hey everyone!
Just wanted to report that I am back from my trip to Phoenix/Flagstaff on the Southwest Chief and Lake Shore Limited with my bonus trip on one of the Northeast regional trains between NYC and Boston.

Overall, it was a spectular trip..even with my bad leg. I had many,many, MANY fantastic Amtrak staff helping me throughout -- I intend to write a letter (any ideas who to send to?)

Also, I will write about my trip in the Travelogue and if anyone is interested in photos of the accessible bedrooms on the LSL and the Southwest Chief, I took some and they turned out very well. I would be happy to email to anyone thinking of using those rooms on those trains.