Rasmussen: Young adults prefer capitalism to socialism by … four points

posted at 6:12 pm on April 9, 2009 by Allahpundit

I’m inclined to say this should be re-polled after they get the bill for Great Society II, but if memory serves, America’s reaction to the New Deal wasn’t exactly a Reaganesque golden age.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% prefer capitalism, 33% socialism, and 30% are undecided. Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive of the free-enterprise approach with 49% for capitalism and 26% for socialism. Adults over 40 strongly favor capitalism, and just 13% of those older Americans believe socialism is better…

It is interesting to compare the new results to an earlier survey in which 70% of Americans prefer a free-market economy. The fact that a “free-market economy” attracts substantially more support than “capitalism” may suggest some skepticism about whether capitalism in the United States today relies on free markets.

Of note: The terms “capitalism” and “socialism” weren’t defined in the poll, leaving us to wonder what twentysomethings have in mind when they think of the latter. I think Matt Yglesias is right that because of their age they’re less inclined to associate it with Soviet-style repression than with third-way Hopenchange, which poses a dilemma for Obama’s critics on the right. Do we continue to slap the scarlet “S” on him and risk having his popularity with kids make them more comfortable with the concept of socialism by association? Or do we dial down the rhetoric, call off the alarm, and risk people becoming more comfortable with The One’s statism-by-inches because, after all, it’s not capital-S “socialism”? My guess: Doesn’t much matter. If the economy turns around, the stimulus will get credit and there’ll be Strange New Respect for command economies. If it doesn’t, Ayn Rand gets a whole new generation of fans. It’s out of our hands.

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I’ve been watching the stock market go up, too, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to start investing, again. You just can’t trust command economies; we only have to look to Europe for plenty of cautionary tales.

Of note: The terms “capitalism” and “socialism” weren’t defined in the poll, leaving us to wonder what twentysomethings have in mind when they think of the latter

If it’s anything like my University friends 2 years ago, they think of Switzerland, fondly. I’ve had this conversation with people my age before, I just always thought they’d grow out of it when they started paying taxes…

Most 20 somethings are still under their Parents Wings. When they hit 30 and beyond, they wake up fast!

I guess I was never part of the 20 something crowd as I had more responsibilities then my frienda at that age. They always ignored me on the advice I gave them… in the last few years they have called or stopped by to say I was right. But it makes me realize how lucky I was to grow up faster I guess.

The family dynamic of parents supplying children with their needs under the age of 18 is socialism. When the child leaves home and has to fend for itself is capitalism. When a child lives with a parent until the age of 28, the “child” has grown to depend on their entitlement from parents.

Thus, Adult-children still think they are entitled to stuff by their new Parent…the government.

They’re plugged in and tuned out. They get their news from The Daily Show and SNL and MTV. These are people who never learned American history, at least not any details prior to the 60’s civil rights movement.

Young people are more inclined to socialism than personal responsibility and capitalism? Say it ain’t so!

Anyone who has spent any time on a college campus in the past, oh, 40 years could’ve predicted this. College kids tend not to have spent years working long days, trying to save for retirement, pay taxes, and put kids through school. All while Uncle Sam wants more and more from them.

Oh, and from Yglesies’ site:

But in the United States we never had a Socialist Party so “socialism” was primarily associated with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics which was not at all good.

The Socialist Party of America was in effect from 1901 to the 1970s. Today there are three splinter socialist parties (Socialist Party USA, Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee, and Social Democrats USA).

All this really proves is that people like free stuff (“socialism”) and they also like not being taxed (“capitalism”). The people who answered the poll probably don’t understand the trade-off involved. And that’s the problem.

to you people who like socialism may i suggest a trip to paris and please go out at night for a drive if your car is not on fire or maybe you could go to china and while youre there run there country down like you do your own maybe somebody will scrape you off the tank you rotten spoiled little babies move to cuba and see what you get there.

It’s awful hard to believe in the capitalist system when it’s crashing down like a house of cards at the same time you’re trying to find work.

Dark-Star on April 9, 2009 at 6:21 PM

Uh, perhaps what got us here was straying as far from free market principles and closer to socialism in the first place – like home financing for everyone, regardless of the fact they would not realistically be in a position to ever pay it back?

They’ll realize real fast what socialism is when they can’t find a job and when they do they pay too many taxes and have the government sticking its nose way too far into their life.

gsherin on April 9, 2009 at 6:22 PM

So what do we have now, wiseguy?

My generation’s “job opportunities” make the American Dream into a cruel joke. We’re usually stuck with temp jobs and min-wage slavery to pay the bills; REAL jobs (the kinds that can make a career) have gone the way of the dodo. Taxes are already ruinous. And the government has it’s nose into people’s business WAY too for a decade at minimum!

If that’s your definition of socialism does to a nation, then I’ve been living in a socialist country for quite awhile!

I might suggest that all these who think socialism is all that wonderful, go to cuba, china, or Russia. Will you have your tv, cell phone, music of your choice, make at least the enough money to feed you, have free choice, get on the internet to say what you want, go to a grocery store and get tofo or whatever your tiny brain cells desire? You don’t like our Republic, you are free to leave and I will give one dollar to send you on your way!
L

The fact that a “free-market economy” attracts substantially more support than “capitalism” may suggest some skepticism about whether capitalism in the United States today relies on free markets.

Actually, this points to the deluge of anti-capitalism and pro-socialism rot that descends into the brain of the younger Americans through the teacher’s union and through the marxist majority university indoctrinators. Heaven forbid that these marxist professors would ever inform these young sponges that free market is capitalism. Just give the system a name and ensure the name eventually denotes oppression and dirt.

This poll therefore, is more indicative of word semantics and question wording, than a measure of knowledge or preference for a particular system.

Take out your weed and put it on the table. Now think about your friend who never has any weed. Every time you buy a bag, give that friend half of the weed. Every time. No matter what. You know those Dave Matthews tickets you have? You have to give one to your friend that doesn’t have one. He’s not going to pay you for it. Ever. You ordered pizza? Yeah, he’s not chipping in any cash for it, but he’s eating a couple of slices. Same friend always always always bumming smokes because he never has any.

Over the next 30 days, your friend has bummed 3 packs of smokes and a concert ticket. You’ve bought him 6 meals and a quarter ounce of weed that he won’t even smoke with you.

Day 31, the phone rings. Caller ID says it’s your friend who never has any smokes, or herb, or cash. Do you answer the phone?

Reminds me of a recent conversation with a local high school teacher. He was telling me that the existence of private companies invariably results in exploitation of people (like gouging) and the solution was government-run enterprises. (Like the government would never exploit anyone!) He told me he knows this because he has a degree in economics.

Hey Rasmussen: Why don’t you retake the same poll, and substitute Communism for socialism, socialism for capitalism, and Other? You would prove our point that these youngsters don’t even know what these words mean.

This is the exact reason you do not turn your public education system over to a labor union. Those that can…do, and those that can’t…teach. How can those who have never been in a competive work invironment, where they are rewarded for their efforts, understand how capitalism works? Public education is showing signs of brainwashing the masses for control. The oldest game in the history of man.

My guess: Doesn’t much matter. If the economy turns around, the stimulus will get credit and there’ll be Strange New Respect for command economies. If it doesn’t, Ayn Rand gets a whole new generation of fans. It’s out of our hands.

Allahpundit

Pretty much.

Of course, if things do turn around despite the command economy we’re feverishly working on and Obama is re-elected in 2012 what happens when the economy tanks towards the end of his second term? The next president can start the ‘I inherited this mess’ war-cry all over again…

My generation’s “job opportunities” make the American Dream into a cruel joke. We’re usually stuck with temp jobs and min-wage slavery to pay the bills; REAL jobs (the kinds that can make a career) have gone the way of the dodo. Taxes are already ruinous. And the government has it’s nose into people’s business WAY too for a decade at minimum!

If that’s your definition of socialism does to a nation, then I’ve been living in a socialist country for quite awhile!

Dark-Star on April 9, 2009 at 6:34 PM

I’m 25 years old with a Bachelor’s degree in Information Science, a CCNP, an MCSE, CISSP and all of the lesser CompTIA certs that I earned while I was in the Army (a significant amount of that time was spent in Iraq). I’m also a Sr. Network Engineer. I make a very comfortable salary, own my car, pay my bills on time, and have a nice cushy savings.

It’s called hard work and determination. How many handouts do you think I got? You want to talk slavery? While I fought the war as a Private First Class, I made roughly 17k/year (this includes combat/hazard pay, and all additional little war pay “incentives”) for a full year of 14 hour days working every single day. Do the math, that’s just over 3 dollars an hour. Did you have a roof over your head and the opportunity for 3 squares a day in 2003?

Guess what, I didn’t. Stop complaining and do something with your live, loser.

And merely calling him a socialist likely had little effect on the study. The poll never mentioned the word “socialist” as an option.

amerpundit on April 9, 2009 at 6:27 PM

excuse me if i get excited, but this is ironic in so many aspects. the poll did mention socialist as an option, apparently, though i didn’t see the actual data.

the poll is pointless because relatively few people know what socialism means, including most conservative pundits. it’s been a reliable scare word for the right, but you can cry wolf only so many times. for decades you’ve ridiculed europeans for having a socialistic bent, but they miraculously haven’t been any worse off than we are. so i can see how some people are led to the conclusion that socialism is not such a terrible idea as some others suggest. those who cry socialism have relied on it for so long – without a credible socialist foe to point at – that they cannot accurately describe what they mean anymore. socialism is a foggy concept for most people in America, alas.

on the flip side, though, i get to mock you for inadvertently making people young people accept socialism, whatever the hell they think it means.

This is the exact reason you do not turn your public education system over to a labor union. Those that can…do, and those that can’t…teach. How can those who have never been in a competive work invironment, where they are rewarded for their efforts, understand how capitalism works? Public education is showing signs of brainwashing the masses for control. The oldest game in the history of man.
volsense on April 9, 2009 at 6:49 PM

Since shortly after the invention of moveable type, the entire concept of LECTURING to students has become obsolete. Today, there’s no rational reason whatsoever that post-primary school education should consist of anything besides handing out books and proctoring examinations.

In the modern world, universities exist primarily for the purpose of cloistering and indoctrination.

BTW, it’s not a coincidence that teaching is the most pathetically union-dependant “profession” in America. If objective standards were applied, about 90% of teachers would be out of a job.

My generation’s “job opportunities” make the American Dream into a cruel joke. We’re usually stuck with temp jobs and min-wage slavery to pay the bills; REAL jobs (the kinds that can make a career) have gone the way of the dodo. Taxes are already ruinous….

Dark-Star on April 9, 2009 at 6:34 PM

Here’s a questions for you…just why do you think your “job opportunities” have gone the way of the dodo? The answer is in your post…with the second highest business taxes on the planet, America’s “ruinous taxes” have been punishing and driving business and industry off our shores for decades. And the “Houses for everyone” programs have destroyed our credit and real estate markets.

That’s why I support the FairTax to fix our economy and take power away from politicians and give power to the people.

If you double the support capitalism gets by calling it something else (“free markets”), taking support to an overwhelming majority, then one can easily assume that there’s been a successful demonization of capitalism by that name. One that has been going on for generations, at least a century – and isn’t hard to find if you paw through the historical record.

Here’s the real question, AP – what if we neither fully recover nor crash-dive in the next 2-3 years, but just muddle along in classic Nixon/Ford/Carter-redux stagflation for the next few years, with unemployment within a point or two either way of 7.5% the whole time? I’d assume we don’t get the “strange new respect,” but I doubt we’d all become Randians either – what do you see coming out of that situation?

The real problem is not capitalism vs. socialism but capitalism vs. corporatism. The latter is a dangerous hybrid of the worst of both and I’m sure that is what the “youth” are basing their definition of capitalism on. Corporations suckle on the teat of big government as much as any welfare mom. I don’t like either. I’m sorta partial to “teach a man not to steal anymore, but to work quietly with his hands to provide for his owns needs and set aside little to help others”

Volsense that has been the goal of public education since the time of John Dewey and Horance Mann. It was never about education but about creating a non-thinking class that could be ruled by their betters. What I found unthinkable was hearing aspiring teachers from Christian Colleges extolling the virtues of Dewey and Mann. I usually loaned them books about both and asked them to read and then come back and talk too me. This invariably got them into trouble later with their School of Ed. profs. Those of us who were foolish enough to think teaching kids to think and master the subject matter have been slowly but surely hounded out of the system. I am a recovering high school science teacher looking at starting a small business to supplement my retirement pay.

This is one of the main problem’s we do face. People don’t really know what the terms are. We don’t even hold people accountable for the words they say during the campaign and the actions they take when in office. Take “deficit spending” it is often confused with “national dept” two related subjects with two very different meanings. I don’t think very many people care enough to know the difference. Maybe, we need to take a little time to explain to people what socialism means. For that matter we should articulate what capitalism is every time like it’s the first time we are explaining it. Maybe we assume too much and expect people to know what these terms mean.

It’s called hard work and determination. How many handouts do you think I got? You want to talk slavery? While I fought the war as a Private First Class, I made roughly 17k/year (this includes combat/hazard pay, and all additional little war pay “incentives”) for a full year of 14 hour days working every single day. Do the math, that’s just over 3 dollars an hour. Did you have a roof over your head and the opportunity for 3 squares a day in 2003?

Guess what, I didn’t. Stop complaining and do something with your live, loser.

Anyone who has attended a university over the past few decades, especially ‘elite’ ones, can’t be surprised by this. A generation has been indoctrinated by the left there, and we’re seeing just the beginning of the results.

Mark Levin mentioned this article in his show the other night and it is a worthwhile read. If true, this will have a crippling effect on our economy and it will be by design.

“Ninety percent of the oil and natural gas wells developed in the United States are done by small, independent businesses—not so called ‘Big Oil’—so tax increases hurt these companies most.” It also, of course, hurts any prospect for the discovery and production of new sources of oil and natural gas in America.

the Obama administration proposes:

(1) A repeal of expensing of intangible drilling costs; a repeal of percentage depletion that allows for the depreciation of existing small, barely economic wells;

(2) A repeal of marginal well tax credit, a safety net for wells that produce small amounts of oil and gas that, collectively, supply almost 20% of the nation’s oil and 12% of its gas;

(3) A repeal of the enhanced oil recovery credit that allows industry to get more energy from wells that are depleted instead of drilling new wells;

(4) Increases the costs of geological and geophysical amortization costs involving the high cost of doing seismic and other high-tech surveys;

(5) An excise tax on Gulf of Mexico production;

(6) And a repeal of the manufacturing tax deduction, a provision given to every other American manufacturer and which allows independent oil and natural gas producers to put more money into new energy projects.

The majority of people polled think socialism = european style social democracy.

that implies that moving toward social democracy is a better thing than moving toward socialism, doesn’t it? because i haven’t heard that distinction here with regards to obama’s agenda. there are many different forms of socialism, some more tolerable than others. but you obviously can’t be suggesting that total nationalization is imminent.

It’s awful hard to believe in the capitalist system when it’s crashing down like a house of cards at the same time you’re trying to find work.

Capitalism isn’t crashing here…it’s capitalism suffering from an infection of statism. Either starve out the statism virus and let the patient recover, or watch the patient slowly deteriorate and assume room temperature.

When government checks start bouncing, doctors’ offices are turned into DMV waiting rooms, and when baby boomers’ Social Security checks stop coming because a means-testing czar thinks you make too much money from your IRA, people will start losing faith in government on a whole new level.