Member Rated: posted 04-15-2006 10:21 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hi Essan, do you have any inside information that it's NOT a pyramid? Why would so many archaeologists be convinced that it was and be gathering there now if it wasn't?

It's supposed to be the largest archaeological project that will be excavated this year. In specific terms, why do you think everyone is being fooled? Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 793 | Registered: Feb 2006

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Desiree:Awesome pictures, Docyabut! I love the fact that it was even on postcards during the 50's before anyone even realized what it was. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Semir Osmanagic is leading the project to uncover the 'pyramid' Archaeologists have begun digging for what they think might be a pyramid hidden beneath a hill in Bosnia. Known as Visocica, the 650m (2,120ft) triangular mound, overlooking Visoko, has long been shrouded in local legend.

The Bosnian archaeologist leading the project says it resembles pyramid sites he has studied in Latin America.

Initial excavations have revealed a narrow entrance to what could be an underground network of tunnels.

On Friday, a team of rescue workers from a local coal mine, followed by archaeologists and geologists examined the tunnel, thought to be 2.4 miles (3.8km) long.

The team found two intersections with other tunnels leading off to the left and right.

Their conclusion was that it had to be man-made.

"This is definitely not a natural formation," said geologist Nadja Nukic.

Satellite photographs and thermal imaging revealed two other, smaller pyramid-shaped hills in the Visoko Valley, which archaeologists believe the tunnels could lead to.

Cashing in

Workers also discovered a paved entrance plateau and large stone blocks that could be part of a pyramid's outer surface.

Semir Osmanagic, the project leader, initially made the suggestion the Visocica hill could be a pyramid.

If he is correct, it would be the first pyramid discovered in Europe.

He has already named the three hills the pyramids of the Sun, Moon and Dragon.

Locals have begun to trade on the excitement, selling pyramid souvenirs to tourists and visitors.

The work will continue for around six months, with the first results expected in the next three weeks.

Two experts from Egypt are also due to join the team in mid-May.

Medieval fortress

According to anthropologists there is evidence of 7,000-year-old human settlements in the valley.

German archaeologists also recently found 24,000 Neolithic artefacts one metre below ground.

Mr Osmanagic says the hill is a classic example of cultures building on the top of other cultures.

The town was Bosnia's capital during the Middle Ages, and a medieval fortress used by Bosnian kings sits atop Visocica.

The fortress was built over an old Roman Empire observation post, which in turn was constructed over the ruins of an ancient settlement.

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Desiree:Hi Essan, do you have any inside information that it's NOT a pyramid? Why would so many archaeologists be convinced that it was and be gathering there now if it wasn't?

It's supposed to be the largest archaeological project that will be excavated this year. In specific terms, why do you think everyone is being fooled? Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I prefer to see some evidence. At present there is precisely none - indeed, it's just as likely that the Malvern Hills near me are also pyramids because they too have a pyramidal shape when seen from some directions.

It always amazes me that people will believe just about anything - just so long as there is no evidence to support it.

I do expect them to find plenty of archaeological remains though, after all, the hill is the known site of a medieval fortress/town.

--------------------Andy

Just because you believe it to be true, doesn't actually make it true...

Member Rated: posted 04-19-2006 08:43 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Essan, well, if you have no on site information, don't you think it's a bit premature to say it isn't a pyramid? How can so many archaeologists be convinced it is? Obviously something about it besides the shape must suggest that it's manmade. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 793 | Registered: Feb 2006

Member Rated: posted 04-21-2006 05:15 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Actually, latest pictures reveal that the sides of the hill are at different angles

Whatever it is, whatever is under the ground (and bear in mind the hill has been used as settlements since prehistoric times) it isn't a pyramid.

Incidently an order has been placed preventing further work due to fears that the heavy handed, and unprofessional, approach may destroy genuine archaeology in the region (would you want someone digging up Stonehenge because they had a fantasy about a chamber of secrets underneath it, for example?)

--------------------Andy

Just because you believe it to be true, doesn't actually make it true...

Researchers unearthed geometrically cut stone slabs that they said could form part of the sloping surface of what they believe is an ancient pyramid lying beneath a huge hill. Archaeologists and other experts began digging at this central Bosnian town last week to explore the team leader's theory that the 2,120 foot hill covers a step pyramid, which would be the first ever found in Europe.

"These are the first uncovered walls of the pyramid," Semir Osmanagic, a Bosnian archaeologist who studied the pyramids of Latin America for 15 years, said of the stonework found Wednesday. "We can see the surface is perfectly flat. This is the crucial material proof that we are talking pyramids," he said.Osmanagic believes the structure will prove to be 722 feet high, or a third taller than Egypt's Great Pyramid of Giza. The huge stone blocks recently discovered appeared to be cut in cubes and polished. "It is so obvious that the top of the blocks, the surface is man-made," Osmanagic said.

Earlier research on the hill, known as Visocica, found that it has 45-degree slopes pointing toward the cardinal points and a flat top. Under layers of dirt, workers discovered a paved entrance plateau, entrances to tunnels and large stone blocks. The work at Visoko, about 20 miles northwest of Sarajevo, will continue for about six months. "It will be a very exciting archaeological spring and summer," Osmanagic said.

Member Rated: posted 04-23-2006 10:12 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, Essan, looks like Boreasi's article has proven you wrong. Just goes to show that maybe people who tend towards the skeptical might due to gather up just a little bit more evidence before leaping to their conclusions..?

This is exciting! We really need to hear more about this. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 793 | Registered: Feb 2006

Member Rated: posted 04-23-2006 10:19 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------A third taller than the Great Pyramid of Giza!!!

Good thing that the Greeks who compiled the list for the Seven Wonders of the World didn't know about this one, right?? Wonder what year it will date to..? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 793 | Registered: Feb 2006

Rate Member posted 04-24-2006 05:08 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------This really seems interesting. I'd say there is still very little evidence speaking for or against the 'pyramid', but definately there is something. In my opinion the question is how much of this hill is man made, and how much made by mother nature.

If the entire hill proves to be made of stone blocks, then this will be the biggest find ever. It would definately rewrite the history of mankind, and make many skeptics really unhappy.

Btw, one interesting thing about the skeptics, they don't need any evidence to say something is BS, but they do need 100% evidence to admit that something is really true. I wonder why that is, because a real skeptical mind asks questions rather than passes judgements. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 14 | From: Rauma, Finland | Registered: Mar 2000

Member Rated: posted 04-24-2006 07:35 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------If you dig on the site of a medieval town and fortress and uncover medieval looking stonework and medievcal looking gravestones what do you think you;ve found.

Why, obviously as 12,000 year old pyramid!

Except it's not a pyramid because a pyramid is specifically pyramid shaped. Visocica isn't......

Btw, one interesting thing about the skeptics, they don't need any evidence to say something is BS, but they do need 100% evidence to admit that something is really true. I wonder why that is, because a real skeptical mind asks questions rather than passes judgements. [/QB]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what you're saying Carlos, is if someone told you the Moon was made out of papier mache and inhabited by 6 foot long earwigs, you'd believe him?

A true sceptic requires emphirical evidence. In the case of Visocica there is, so far, absolutely none. The fact that Osmanagic has lied about even the shape of the hill(!) tells you a lot about how much to trust him!

--------------------Andy

Just because you believe it to be true, doesn't actually make it true...

Member Rated: posted 04-24-2006 08:03 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------I don't think anyone is sayng it's 12,000 years old. As for a pyramid needing to be very specifically shaped, I don't think so. What about the Bent Pyramid? Pyramids look very even and symmetrical from a distance, but appear very rough and jagged up close. I imagine pictures will be coming eventually so we can all see!

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Essan:So what you're saying Carlos, is if someone told you the Moon was made out of papier mache and inhabited by 6 foot long earwigs, you'd believe him?

No, that's not what I'm saying. A true sceptic requires emphirical evidence - I agree. In this case I don't think that there is any real evidence speaking for or against the pyramid. It's just too early to say. Even if I was a "true" sceptic, I'd wait and keep asking questions.

There was a medieval fortress on top of the hill, fine. There are graves along the hillsides, fine. Don't you think it could also mean that there was once a pyramid of some kind, later the area was abandoned, then someone moved there again, saw an old pyramid which was partly buried already, built a fortress on top of it and also used the hillsides as a sematary?

This could be the case, and then again what you are saying, could also be the case. At this point we simply don't know.

That is why I find it weird that someone says this cannot be a pyramid, based on a single poor-quality weblink. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posts: 14 | From: Rauma, Finland | Registered: Mar 2000