Broadband News

City of London Police looks into Phorm

In the week that Phorm has admitted that its next trial of its advertising system is taking longer than expected to start, the City of London police has been meeting with BT to ask questions about
the earlier more covert trials that took place.

The future of Phorm would appear to hinge very much on the success of the next BT trial and deals with Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse who have reconfirmed their commitment to the trial the
Phorm service according to the Financial Times. The Register takes it's usual irreverent view on
matters with a news item titled 'Phorm: Our business is fine honest'.

The current economic downturn may possibly do more harm to Phorm than the various ongoing investigations as to what the service really does, and what it can see of users data and what potential
may exist for abuse. If the trials do go ahead and the product rolls out, it will be interesting to see the reaction of companies who want to advertise their products. Going on the level of public
opposition to advertising your product via the Phorm agency there may be a reluctance to be associated with something people view as an invasion of privacy.

Comments

Could the Police then investigate the ISPs for monitoring their Customers use of the Internet?

....as part of a probe into the covert wiretapping and profiling of the internet use of tens of thousands of BT customers during tests of Phorm's adware system.

The fact that most ISPs monitor all of our use of the Internet is nothing different.

Surely the same rules apply.

stevie2001

over 9 years ago

depends what you define monitoring as? I dont recall isps currently inspect all non http web traffic, even things like ellocayas tend to only inspect the headers not the full data. Phorm is indeed very different in a few ways, it modifies copyrighted pages without permission, it can modify cookies, and it inspects all port 80 traffic even when the person opts out. The opting out simply stops pages been modified but doesnt stop the inspection.

chrysalis

over 9 years ago

I meant all non ssl http traffic.

chrysalis

over 9 years ago

"even things like ellocayas tend to only inspect the headers not the full data"

That's what I thought , but some people are claiming otherwise (eg in the wilder fringes of the "net neutrality" discussions). Part of the problem seems to be that DPI is ambiguous; Ellacoya's DPI initially identified source, destination, protocol/app, etc without knowing the actual *content* of your traffic.

More recently, Phorm (and NebuAd, RIP?) are doing their own DPI which clearly can examine the *content* of http (and in principle other) traffic.

c_j_

over 9 years ago

@stevie2001
What phorm / webwise does is very different to normal ISP monitoring. These two diagrams show what is going on:

Without phorm
http://lh3.ggpht.com/pathogenrush/SCDG9jvwkCI/AAAAAAAAAF8/p1yX6yA2w2w/s800/request.png

With phorm
http://lh4.ggpht.com/pathogenrush/SCDCYzvwkAI/AAAAAAAAAFo/YD3ld1Kr-0w/s800/webwise-simplified.png

Or if you want a technical paper:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/080518-phorm.pdf

LCake

over 9 years ago

Or if you want a legal viewpoint:
http://www.fipr.org/080423phormlegal.pdf

Or if you want an "insider view" a BT report on one of the secret trails:
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/British_Telecom_Phorm_PageSense_External_Validation_report

LCake

over 9 years ago

Headline looks good in print but it's only one DC investigating having been badgered into it by glory hunting tin foil hat wearing hippies.
End of nowt will happen as it's "not in the public interest" to prosecute, in fact not in the public interest full stop.

crusader666

over 9 years ago

crusader666 - Nice example of ad-hominem in your first sentence.

Perhaps you can explain, do you have some special qualifications as an arbiter of "the public interest"?

LCake

over 9 years ago

How ironic for a police force which advocates a snoop society and wants greater powers over individuals who have nothing to hide.

bosie

over 9 years ago

Isn't Google's new Chrome browser meant to do something similar?

harryhound1

over 9 years ago

no it doesnt, for the 2nd time, phorm is not the same as google tracking/advertising, works in a different way and is far more intrusive.

chrysalis

over 9 years ago

quote"the City of London police has been meeting with BT to ask questions about the earlier more covert trials that took place."

You can just imagine it now, plod tha ate all the pies visits BT to wash them down with a nice cup of tea.... Takes out note pad and proudly asks in a genious like fashion..... So tell me how this interent thing works?
Im sure BT are quaking in their boots :rolleyes:

It doesn't make any difference which browser you use, it doesn't make any difference which cookies you accept or decline, they're still recording the content of Internet pages you access.

c_j_

over 9 years ago

Internet mail should be regarded the same as posted mail, private and confidential, no one should be able to look at or even record your transmitions not even your internet provider, they provide a service, not a snooping service, if all your'e snail mail was intercepted and examined it would soon cause an outcry so why accept that your E-Mails should be any different.

Duratus

over 9 years ago

An E-Mail sent to a specific address should be for that recepiant only not for any one else.

Duratus

over 9 years ago

Harry, LOOK AT THE LINKS by LCake - you dont even need good vision to see the massive diffs...

Please note that ALL net & email is as visible as a postcard is!!! the ONLY way to get privacy is to encrypt...

comnut

over 9 years ago

Even if you do not care for privacy, consider how much time is lost while it goes through four or five servers, instead of just one... and even worse if one breaks or slows down...

comnut

over 9 years ago

" Duratus 9 minutes ago
An E-Mail sent to a specific address should be for that recepiant only not for any one else. "

well the UK government have a different view, as you are a terrorist, as is every other UK resident.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/407881.html

pigfister

over 9 years ago

sorry that was the wrong link, but just as important!

read these!

UK.gov to spend hundreds of millions on snooping silo
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/19/ukgov_uber_database/

or
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/04/21/quiet-pact-allows-spy-uk
Secret pact allows the US to spy on UK motorists

pigfister

over 9 years ago

and I can tell you have not even looked...

comnut

over 9 years ago

It looks like you have no clue, another one for my ignore list.....

comnut

over 9 years ago

Phorm has nothing to worry about....
You have the right to remain silent
(err it is silent thats the whole point)
Anything you do say can and will be blah blah
(Err again they dont say anything they hush it up)
Thank god the old bill are hot on the case lol