Lots of sites will put in temporary bans... a week, 2 weeks, one month... and if the offender keeps it up then they get the permaban...

Can we do that here?

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In some early stages I felt like this site had some serious potential. I think it still does - don't get me wrong. Some people express themselves in different ways. I know I do sometimes. I've grown up a bit since i first started posting here, but I'm still the same person. What John did for this site was invaluable. He's a troll, i'm a troll. But his good, 100%, outweighs the "bad" if that's what you want to call it.

I've made some best friends for life on here. Me, Chris (Prowraps) Chris, (cdiseal - AZPRO), and Sam (qmr55) go on a trip one to two times a year.. every year together. We just got back from Cabo in august. The networking and information we share with one another is invaluable. All of us have grown..a lot. More than I could have ever dreamed. These guys challenge me every day, we talk every day, we're all best friends. And it all started at signs 101, and trolling one another.

Mike over at Merritt has given me MULTIPLE contact that has turned into business changing contracts.

You want to learn how to grow a business, Manage, and understand work flow? Talk to Chris at AZPRO.
You want to know how to do the work of 7 guys by your self? Ask Chris at Prowraps - he wraps a sprinter in 3 hrs.

My point is - people need to get over the trolling. This is the internet - everyone is going to be a bit different.
I stopped posting on here mostly because we are always so busy, but also because i always had too much fun with the drama on here. Spent too much time doing what john was doing on a lesser level, but at the same time I always gave help - ALWAYS - as John does.

People criticized PROWRAPs as well because of his methods and personality. But he is one of the best business guys I know.

So overall - stop crying. Enjoy the people around you and take as much positive as you can from them. You guys spend too much time dissecting every post.

here are some recent pics of us going to cabo. Good times. Yes, we wore horse heads in first class. Yes we got reported for noise 20 times. Yes people hated us. But we enjoyed ourselves.

In some early stages I felt like this site had some serious potential. I think it still does - don't get me wrong. Some people express themselves in different ways. I know I do sometimes. I've grown up a bit since i first started posting here, but I'm still the same person. What John did for this site was invaluable. He's a troll, i'm a troll. But his good, 100%, outweighs the "bad" if that's what you want to call it.

I've made some best friends for life on here. Me, Chris (Prowraps) Chris, (cdiseal - AZPRO), and Sam (qmr55) go on a trip one to two times a year.. every year together. We just got back from Cabo in august. The networking and information we share with one another is invaluable. All of us have grown..a lot. More than I could have ever dreamed. These guys challenge me every day, we talk every day, we're all best friends. And it all started at signs 101, and trolling one another.

Mike over at Merritt has given me MULTIPLE contact that has turned into business changing contracts.

You want to learn how to grow a business, Manage, and understand work flow? Talk to Chris at AZPRO.
You want to know how to do the work of 7 guys by your self? Ask Chris at Prowraps - he wraps a sprinter in 3 hrs.

My point is - people need to get over the trolling. This is the internet - everyone is going to be a bit different.
I stopped posting on here mostly because we are always so busy, but also because i always had too much fun with the drama on here. Spent too much time doing what john was doing on a lesser level, but at the same time I always gave help - ALWAYS - as John does.

People criticized PROWRAPs as well because of his methods and personality. But he is one of the best business guys I know.

So overall - stop crying. Enjoy the people around you and take as much positive as you can from them. You guys spend too much time dissecting every post.

here are some recent pics of us going to cabo. Good times. Yes, we wore horse heads in first class. Yes we got reported for noise 20 times. Yes people hated us. But we enjoyed ourselves.

I've always been under the impression that a lot of what goes on that upsets memebers isn't public (ie PMs Emails etc) and it takes a lot for Fred to pull the trigger on someone. This place has lost a lot more valuable contributors offput by the nastiness that some display than by taking offense to "censorship".

Isn't it pretty simple? Fred says "Knock it off", you knock it off. That seems to be something some people can't grasp. I also liked John. He helped me a number of times, but in the end, Fred apparently asked him to change something and he apparently has refused to do so.

Gino was told repeated by Fred to make some changes and he refused as well. It's really not that difficult. The 99.999% of the rest of the forum have no issues complying with Fred's guidelines, why's it near impossible for a couple of guys to just listen to Fred and stay on the forum?

Isn't it pretty simple? Fred says "Knock it off", you knock it off. That seems to be something some people can't grasp. I also liked John. He helped me a number of times, but in the end, Fred apparently asked him to change something and he apparently has refused to do so.

Gino was told repeated by Fred to make some changes and he refused as well. It's really not that difficult. The 99.999% of the rest of the forum have no issues complying with Fred's guidelines, why's it near impossible for a couple of guys to just listen to Fred and stay on the forum?

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What you don't understand is that most of "those guys" have more to give here, then they could ever take away from this site.

That is THE problem. Because it is the internet and it allows people to say things to one another that they wouldn't say to their face. It is so easy to hide behind the keyboard and often anonymously

There is the old adage about "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". I am not talking about critiquing someone's portfolio but rather making fun of someone's character, appearance, weight, religion, race, sexual preference, social status, different views, etc. You have no idea what a particular person may be going through now or in their past when you say/draw something hurtful. Words can be powerful and affect everyone differently

Some of us have a thick skin and others don't. This is a sign forum, first, entertainment good or bad at the expense of someone else is not the priority

What you don't understand is that most of "those guys" have more to give here, then they could ever take away from this site.

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What you don't understand is that there is almost always more going on than is going to be discussed in an open forum.

Let's say in your business that you have an employee (named Junior) who does good work but his behavior is such that it is negatively affecting other good workers who are now refusing to work with Junior. You talk to him and you warn him but the divisive behavior continues along with the good work. Productivity falls and three valued employees leave your employ. What will you do next?

What you don't understand is that most of "those guys" have more to give here, then they could ever take away from this site.

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So in order to keep one person out of 1000's, we have to let him do whatever he wants and say whatever he wants, however he wants to do it? What if he posts racists remarks? Should we just ignore them and say "Yeah, but look how much he helps?". That's crazy. John (or whatever his real name is) is a grown a@s man. He's perfectly capable of not doing some things. It's not like he's being asked to stop posting, he just picks a couple of things on the fringe and won't leave them alone. Grow up, act like an adult on a public forum, not a child in 7th grade and be part of a productive forum.

I don't want him to leave either. I think he's a huge contributor, but at some point you have to act like an adult in the situation.

I get it, I have a weird sense of humor. I've darn near lost several jobs because people didn't get my humor. When I was sitting in Human Resources getting formally reprimanded about it, do you think I walked out and went right back to the people that filed a complaint and joked with them some more? No. I shut my mouth when around those people and I kept my job.

John could be back today, I'm guessing, if he just did what Fred asked him to do. Keep in mind, the things that got him banned have nothing to do with the sign business. He didn't get banned because he was arguing about the best way to profile a printer.

Yup Prime example of every post being dissected. Look I'm not here for drama - just my 2 cents. Do what you want with it. I can care less. Time to hide for another 6 months.

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I wouldn't call responding to your post dissecting it. Since your post wasn't based on any actual familiarity with the issue, one can't do much with it. Especially when a response attempting to clarify it and put it in terms you could respond to in a better informed fashion were ignored.

Gee, thanks for the update. Not here to contribute for 6 months, stop in to say "this place is going downhill because you're kicking off good people" (2 people kicked out of 1000's). "Stop whining and suck it up" and then "I'm out of here for the next 6 months".

How's that helpful? I miss the contributions by people like yourself and your new friends. I thought you guys added more to this site than just about anyone else I can remember. But you shouldn't be pissed at Fred, you should be pissed at John. He's the one that is disrespecting Fred by not doing what Fred's asked. No matter what, Fred has earned the respect of this community. I don't think anyone can deny that. Disrespecting his requests is on John, not Fred. If Fred asks you to stop something, it would be most respectful to stop it.

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