Hades. Oh, yes. I was unaware that Darrel and Kevin had freed the first pitch and when we first did it I was psyched. It used to have some pretty sketchy run outs off a fixed blade but Johnny Woodward installed a bolt and now it's pretty safe. That firsst lead is one of the best pitches (5.12-)at Suicide, and really long. Once you know the sequence it's far easier but that traversing bit is tricky to dick first try. It's also very unusual climbing for Suicide--not thin hold stuff but strange cross countering and Gastoning off rounded shite.

The next pitch is sequency, real thin and almost impossible to keep your feet on the holds. There's a grim high step over a small ceiling that I bashed my shin on about 20 times. Above, it's grim to clip the last protection bolt and get set up on two sidepull dimes, then huck a big mo out right to a two finger scallop, stick it, and fire through. I went up there two or three times and the last time linked all the moves but had to hang on the last bolt. Finally I returned with DB and got it, probably because I knew every crystal on that thing and also, we were bouldering a ton out at Roubidoux during that period. We were happy about our performance because we never top roped it or frigged around much. From the start we tried it from the bottom.

A year or so later Skinner rolls into town and immdeiately raps down from the top and starts hanging and working out the moves on a TR. At that time (1980??) I thought it was needless and silly to use such a tactic on that route. Plus, he totally avoided the first pitch--coming down from the top like that--and the first lead is the best one, just not the hardest one.

We never really believed Skinner cleanly linked all those moves on the last pitch. One or two hangs on one or the other of those bolts and it's not the same fandango at all. It pissed us off because we'd put all this effort into doing it ground up and totally clean--no hanging or tensioning or anything.

Gotta wonder if that route sees any traffic these days. Crime if it don't, since that first pitch is spectuaular. The second pitch is basically a 30-foot, Roubidoux boulder problem.

JL =

bvb response;

the very first time mike paul and i went to santee (we hitchiked all the way ther form,, this would have been sometime in the winter or spring of '73, shockly was there and he gave us the tour.

ran into him there (santee) again, winter before last, over christmas vacation. we got to talking and it's amazing how different the place looks now. housing and development right up to the boulders, the high school, all the graffiti....in '73 the place seemed like a wilderness area!

yeah, i remember when fraud spinner wrote up his ascent of hades as "an easy afternoon at 5.12c"

others who witnessed the "ascent" reported that our hero didn't do his momma proud and that he'd used every base trick in a cheat's repertoire to frig his way up the thing.

Largo, quite the 30' bouldering problem! Hearing your recollections of Hades was cool. The South Face was always special. I gotta run for the week-end, when I get back I'll throw out a little more history on some of the South Face activities. You made me remember some really good climbing.

Hades and the Knockin on Heavens Door see virtually no traffic. Free climbing the first pitch of Hades with Hensel was great fun. We would typically be the only ones over at the South Face, or the entire rock for that matter. Usually went up in winter when the rock was cooler. Climbed up and down trying to place blades and RP's. Several falls were taken in the process. The bolt really isn't necessary although I am sure it would make it easier and less work to lead. Also,it is not in the best place.
The Knockin pitch has still not had a second lead to my knowledge. Mank pin in the expanding flake that held a few 20 footers actually fell out on it's own at one point. Hey Master, those were the best of times, eh.

Hashbro:We met Shockley and Largo on our first ever trip to Stoney Point on one of the first boulders encountered. Our little group of Orange County teenage craggers were blown away when the real big boys took us for a tour through the boulders on that day in 1972 (or maybe 1973). Bacher had not yet discovered cragging so guys like Dick, Largo and Bob Kamps had the run of the place back then.

Bongs did not exist, so Largo took repeated hits off of a re-smoked (and resin soaked) joint that he had stashed in his pants. I quite clearly remember that neither of the rock stars had a chalk bag; instead leaving a partially used block of gymnastic chalk at the base of whatever problem they chose to impress us on.

Dick's flowing (ballet-dancer) style, his methodical and intentional motions on the rock were contrasted by John's intense and explosive dyno moves this way and that. We had never seen such experise on the rock before and it was inspirational!

Our three greenhorns hooked upward aghast at what we saw. We were also pretty excited that these two Stonemasters took the time to nurture us with new techniques and vision we had never experienced before.

Early memmories...

Hey, yeah! No chalkbags Back In The Day. ...carried pristine blocks of calcium carbonate in plastic bags. (Did they have ziplocks then?) Just another part of the stalling tactic, right up there with the cleaning of the boots and the smoking breaks. Guys would stand around and slowly rub the block across each tip, one at a time. The extra digital massage helped, plus you had the perfect thing to chalk each of the minute crystals and highlight each key divot. Carefully replace the block in the bag, and step on up!

Ob: Zip-locks... Good. Those memories are correct! (Phew.) Before the advent of chalkbags, guys kept their blocks of chalk still wrapped in the white paper that they came in, and stashed it in a plastic bag. Kept those blocks wrapped like a dead fish. It was hard to prevent the blocks from getting crushed in the rucksacks. And chalk was pretty-much a bouldering-only behavior until the early Seventies.

Quite controversial, chalk. ...ran across a HUGE headline in one of the early Mountain Magazines that shows how things have changed since 1976: "Top Yosemite climb done without chalk!" (Erickson & Higbee's early free attempt of The NW Face on Half Dome.) "'The theory that chalk is needed in Yosemite is as full of holes as a Swiss cheese,' he commented." (As Bugs Bunny would say, "What a maroon!")

always did think it a bit funny those boys split Insomnia into two very short pitches, instead of the one classic pitch. Mike also appears to be (mistakenly?) liebacking, instead accessing the bomber handjams.

The following article from Summit Dec. ’73 was from my first climbing periodical I ever purchased. Only 75-cents, what a deal, very affordable even for a 10 year old. Fate would have it that within the pages of this classic issue would be the article “The View from Strawberry Valley” by Mark Miller.

My inspiration . . .

1970 Saw the movie “Solo” by Mike Hoover at the Ski Chalet in Point Loma. Little League never held the same intensity for me after that. That movie blew me away – wow.

1971 Cub Scouts
1972 Family moved to Poway and I started scrambling and climbing big rocks in Garden Road area and on Twin Peaks Mtn. near our house.

1973 Boy Scouts, Troop 608, never made it past Tenderfoot (pretty lazy when it came to merit badges), but I never missed a back packing trip (frustrated climber). Summer of ’73 took Geography of CA for summer school that my 5th grade teacher taught prior to attending middle school. I was bouldering all over Twin Peaks Mtn. by this time. The objective at the end of the class, before the end of summer, was to do Whitney via the tourist trail. The class did a training back pack trip that summer of ’73 out of Humber Park heading to the summit of San Jacinto, a class of about 24 students made-up of primarily 10 – 12 year olds. We heard voices on the rocks of Tahquitz and Suicide Rock. I sat there watching trying to figure out where they were coming from. Many of us made the summit of Whitney. Bought my first “Summit” climbing periodical. Sat there reading it cover to cover in my sixth grade class, especially during sex ed. Fascinated by the article written by Mark Miller.

Asked my teacher Mrs. Bunshaft (not her real name), what the meaning of this one route called “Fallatio” in the article meant. It was a teachable moment. (OK, I made this last part up. But I would have liked to have asked her had I a clue then. She was very pretty and hormones were raging.)

1974 More Scouts and lots of trips. My father, older sister and I, took the Sierra Club course “Basic Mountaineering” and finally learned to use the rope, some of the gear, and how to belay out in the boulder fields of Jacumba. I read the little red book produced by the San Diego Chapter of the Sierra Club over and over again.

1975 Finally a few friends and I, when we could convince our parents to drive us there, started going to Mt. Woodson. I would never be the same. I blame the Stonemasters for inspiration and the Poway Mtn. Boys for all the brilliant climbing I witnessed and occasionally emulated.

And a few of you tykes-that-were are showing that not all tigers lay down and die quietly before taking a bite or two out of the young ones. That and the young only get to be tigers by surviving the claws left on the rock by those that came before them. The ones that linger should still be treated with respect and caution.

[That roof is the spitting image of one in So. Ill. called "Fear of Flying"]

Well said Grippy (Rockamazzo). I don't really think ya all are old, just wise. I quite remember that you, Mikeand my elders taught me everything I learned at the crags and beyond.

Thanks, by the way, for Annabelle!

Hey Klimmer, thanks for the Summit mag article; it was my first climbing text and really motivated myself and the bros to get out to Ilywild for our own fun, and maybe a bit of sandbagging by the Stonemasters.

swear to god, this pic of tobin drilling on season's end still makes my heart race.

last time i was at suicide was a sunny mid-winter day in 91 or 92, me and the wife went up and did pink royd, down and out, and valhalla. only peeps at the crag, perfect bluebird day, cool but not cold and the edges felt SO crisp and the friction SO good...gotta go back...

Whoa, I was in Pack 608, but it was the Cub Scouts. We lived in the Green Valley area of Poway from 1959-66. There were fun boulders in our back yard consisting of the highly coveted Woodson Granodiorite. Difficult with PF Flyers.

Hashbro had me scratching my head over the reference to “Annabelle Overhang”. Thanks, Mike for clearing that up. When I saw the picture, it brought back all the moves, as well as the fine- sandpaper feel of SoCal gritstone.

I have a vivid memory of Matt Cox bouldering at Pirate’s Cove. A couple had set out their beach towel and chairs with their backs to the entrance of the big overhang where City Ordinance crack is. Matt starts climbing in the cave way behind the couple and works his way up the overhang onto the vertical face above. Suddenly he falls from about 20 feet up. The result is a spectacular, sandy crash landing right next to, I mean within inches, of the couple’s beach towel. Matt brushes the sand off and walks away without a word, leaving the couple wondering how it came to be raining men at CDM.

Spencer-Can’t agree that Henry Barber was “spanked” at Pirate’s Cove as mentioned upthread. It’s true he didn’t fire off many problems, but most of those sandy gems took a lot of time to figure out in the first place. Like Gramicci, the part I remember best about Henry’s visit was that none of us had ever thought to lengthen the cave problems through the use of sit starts way back in the caves. Henry asked me if anyone had ever started deep in the waist-high cave to the right of the stairs and when I said no, his eyes lit up. He immediately crawled back into the cave, sat down and started bouldering out. Fortunately for local pride, Henry wasn’t able to do that day what later became Diamond Man (because it added a series of hard moves to the existing Iron Man Traverse) but he opened our eyes to new possibilities. I, for one, was impressed with this small example of Henry’s great creativity as a climber.

Memories sure do get fuzzy as at least 30 years have passed since Henry's visit to Pirate's cove. It is absolutely true that Henry did in fact pionmeer the numerous sit starts at the "Beach." He actually did kick ass that day and massively impressed us all.

I believe our (as inexperienced 16 year olds)Matt and I somehow though Henry would flash all of our test-peices. We hadn't figured out that local knowledge of Beta, sequence and subtleties have a huge influence in completion problems. When Henry did not flash (or if my memory serves me right, he could not do)the Hinge. We wondered how this, the world's "best" climber would flounder on our well worked out locals problem.

After years of sandbagging and being sandbagged we understood that local knowledge is 90% of getting up stuff like that. Hence we developed a massive respect for the flash over all other styles of climbing.

Thanks for the image Mike. Yeah I quite recall the Annabelle direct problem, and the numerous kinda long sand falls many of us took figuring it out. Also remember the "face" to the left of the cave and the technicals moves there.

Returning to check all those problems out in recent years had me gagging though. The current condition of the problems sure did not match my memories as greasy holds, lots of trash and sandy eyes were the norm. I recently heard they outlawed bouldering there as well.

Anyone got a photo of Diamondman? (Or even Ironman?) That was just a classic Beach test piece...

Ricky will remember the extensive work we did on getting the right sequence for Diamondman... At one point, we unlaced our boots, and tied a 1" loop in the center of the lace. Then we'd relace the boot. As I remember, we'd actually hook that loop of lace over a little horn so that the first moves off the sand would rely on this shoe hanging from the horn! Never seen anything like that, before or since.

That hook didn't last too long, as we all eventually worked-out a more traditional sequence without the boot foolery.

I made a special trip down to the Beach just to do the Brain. The City Ordinance Crack was tricky but the Brain was the shizat so far as excitement. Gotta wonder if anyone ever fell off those routes, which were not only sandy, but loose as well.

There was another classic problem called "Big Ricky," named after graffiti ground into the soft rock. We accused our own Ricky A. of scribing said graffiti, since "Big Ricky" was Ricky A's problem. And a good one, as I remember. There was also that crack (left of the stairs) that exited onto a highball face on sandy flutes that felt like soap. Don't fall . . .

The BRAIN! More like a solo at 50 feet than a highball Before any of you could climb there you had to be briefed on how pull on those fins, any other pressure than pulling straight out would break them off. It was for your own safety it could have been ugly if that happened to you on the BRAIN! Couldn’t climb for 3 days after a rain either, for fear of breaking off a crucial hold on any of the problems.(sorry, I meant to say solutions Robs)

I’ve got more great shots, city ord, the Nose, topping out on Anna, blindfolded on the hinge…kidding, never took a photo of that. None of the traverses though, weren’t very photogenic I guess, being so close to the ground.

One tourist encounter was pretty funny. Rick I think you were there. This black couple comes up kind of checking out the scene. I jump up on to the hinge for the 8 thousandth time and the guy asked What’s that guy doin, Rick says climbin…I’m just topping out and the guy says “that aint climbin that’s dancin” Rick says yeah its in our blood.

Thought the guy was going to drop everything and start bouldering with us.

Yeah bouldering at the beach, the conditions had to be just right. Always a big surprise if that last hold was covered in sand, thank god the landings were decent. You wouldn’t believe how much school I ditched during the week to go there. Always had it to myself.

Hey, MG and other Beach regulars. Did many folks actually climb the Brain and some of those other highball dandies? The first time I climbd the Brain I immediately got in my car and drove off at about 100 mph, thinking I'd gotten away with murder. It's hard to imgine those beach highballs ever being popular, though locals can get really dialed in on stuff. I remeber your boots were like 25 feet above the sand on some of those problems--or am I imagining things?

And what about some of those high balls on the little-known Buffalo Chip? Ricky took me there once and I felt lucky to survive that place as well.

Damn Buffalo Chip, L believe Randy brought me there. From our perspective the place looked like an errosive pile of dog sh#t. But then back then we thought the same about Smith Rock and Pinnacles. Now we know so much more (or do we?).

The Brain, I think Matt and I did it with you Mike. I do reort of remember the sandy and dirty top-out that made ya wonder about surviving the 50 foot groundfall onto the sand.

The Brain wasn’t one that got done much. I may have only done 3 times can’t even remember if it was difficult or not but that wasn’t important. It was the shear excitement of venturing into your own grey matter and those undulating flutes and fins that made up the feature. I think, at one time every regular felt compelled to sac up to it for his own excursion in to the unknown. Would love to see a picture of it today. There was some other high stuff far right of City ord, probably what you’re remembering JL.

Buffalo chip... That was something out of King Solomon’s mines, a real diamond in the rough. There was this arête on the lower left side that was a thrill ride. The stiffest thing I did there was to its right, an overhanging headwall. Never could repeat it after one fluke day doing it, Then of course stopped going. Never did help though, getting chased off by the Private Irvine land co. police. I bet I couldn’t even find that thing now, if it even still exists and as the Kings mines are, it may now just be a Legend.

I should try and get Steve West to post up he may have some other info or a shot or two.

This guy leans over to me during choir rehearsal and says, "Psst... Know anyone who wants my old scanner? It only does two slides at a time." So, I am now in posession of an old HP ScanJet. (Thank Gawd this didn't fall into the wrong hands! Can you imagine this being given to Tarbuster?!)

Time to try it out...

From very old 35mm slides that I found in an abandoned carousel in the closet, here are two shots that probably need some explanation. Both are from bouldering at Baldy, taken probably in the late Seventies (or sometime shortly after 1981, maybe). As has been noted earlier, this was a favorite haunt of the Uplandish sect of the Stonemasters. The first is the backside of B Boulder, and Gramicci needs to tell the tale of the ropeless, onsight of the right-side problem. Notice the clean, padless landings!

This second shot is from Hussle Patterns--also at Baldy. A charming little solution that Harrison and I stitched together (over many days of doing piecework) back in 1978. Sweatshop conditions, too. The slide is under-exposed, because it's pretty hard to get good lighting even on the brightest sunny days back in that canyon. Right to left, only; this is one of the cruxy sections with the improbable heel-hooking. ...never been done left-to-right to my knowledge. (And not for want of trying!)

Did someone say scanner?
Robs?
I'm on my own mad dash, down and out in Mussy Alley, with a pretty kick butt gem of a scanner. It does slides, negatives, lies, cheats, the whole shebang. Paired with my upgraded $25 a year photobucket account, I'm on a Bender for sure. This unit cost about $300. 'Been so busy crankin'out BS on it, I don't even know who makes it...

The Buffalo Chip......I have had similiar experiences (John Long) on the Buffalo Chip.......I was a student at U.C.Irivine, and the Buffalo Chip is a giant dilrt-clod by Urbanus Square off of McCarther in Irvine/Newport Beach.......I feel off a bulge section of rock there and got one of the works climbing cuts I've ever recieved on my leg there..a gash that took months to heal and left an ugly scar for about 20 years on my leg......I used to solo up this dirt chimney and pull on river rock glued in place with mud..(I know how to have fun!).....but, unfortunately, the Buffalo Chip got buried by bulldoziers to put in a housing development....thrown out, so to speek, like an old newspaper...it probably had 5 or so climbs on it.....maybe 35-40 high......(higher than you would like to fall...). I was sad to see the thing buried......for I probably went there 25 times...(Way more than anyone should ever admit to......). Sort of like losing a childhood favorite toy, or a 18 year old dog/cat family pet......

My first visit to "the Chip" was with Mike. The problems on the left side were both super hard and way off the deck (brush and rubble and the obligatory remants of underwear attesting to teenage sex). It lay all but hidden in a small ravine.

Buffalo Chip was such an appropriate name, it looked like a giant bovine patty turned on its side. As Todd relates, it now lies under about 50 feet of fill upon which have sprouted townhouses or some such structures.

It still lives on in our memories and route info can be found in old copies of the Hunk Guide to Orange County -- the "hunks" were not the likes of Gramicci or Bachar, but the assorted piles of shitty local rock which (with the exception of The Beach) were the desperate fare of rock starved OC climbers.

It really saddens me to hear of the demise of a natural occurrence such as the chip. And for what, town homes that probably go for 2 million each, even sharing a thin wall between them.

Doesn’t sound worth it to me I had some priceless experiences there. Can’t say I had sex though like some could. Bet they sure miss it too.

I’d like to see some pictures also. I have a good one in my mind but can’t guarantee how long that will last. Todd mentioning the chimney helped spark a good visual. With all the photos I have I can’t believe I don’t have one of The BC down in OC.

Since we are on the bouldering path in this chapter thought I would move it off to Colorado.

Enjoyed this one great summer there once. I was staying in Eldorado springs with Dave Brasheres in some loft apartment he had. John Bachar and John Long were also there living out of there cars and such. This one particular day we all decided to drive up to Horse tooth Reservoir in Fort Collins for a little bouldering tour. Dave Knew the place pretty well and was keen to show us the Classics like the eliminators and other Gill routes. Great stuff there and I will piece a few shots out one at a time.

Here’s one of Largo on a particular high one I was too close to get the ground in the shot another six feet lower. If any you guys know the problem let us know.

Shawn Passed Bra.
Just Last Year.
I Think I might get some of his photos and post them.
Maybe that picture of Santee, well, I think you blew my cover...
It might be a bit North of Santee...

Shawn said that was your first day on Ice.
I've asked you about it.
You said the Leashless thing didn't feel right, Like when you placed screws, you planted an ax, let go to fiddle and said to the ax "OK, Stay..."

I thought Mike Paul did the first of the Lie Detector.Anyways,I remember doing an early ascent with awell known local,who said ,I believe what I see and I saw u do it and I know I did it.Dont think Barber ever said he did it.Although he did make a good effort Barefoot.

On the left, we have the first pitch of Flying Circus at Tahquitz. Probably taken on the second weekend of work, since there is already a fixed line and clipped jumars waiting to go up to the second bolt above the hard aid. Note the use of dual 9mm ropes--that trick we picked up from the Brits to reduce friction on indirect leads. Aug, 1978.

And, on the right, we have compelling evidence why so few Stonemasters have converted to Islam and moved to Saudi Arabia! The horrible Jurassic limestone/mud on the Escarpment on the outskirts of Riyadh. 25 miles of this junk! And I don't think I ever saw a single hunk of granite in the whole fricking Kingdom! Hooked up there with a British Expat (another desperate and frustrated climber) to go looking for lines. Both of us are in the picture, and the belay ledge I'm standing on fell off from beneath my second, once I got to the summit. A first (and last) ascent. 1980.

That shot of JB with the striped rugby shirt is on the Left Eliminator, which is somewhat of a highball problem when you did it sans cord. Bachar had been there a year before I visited with Richard Harrison, and JB gave us the tour--the Mental Block, Eliminators, all the classic Gill stuff. We never used a rope--never even thought about it--on any of that stuff. This added a certain flair to doing those problems. Later I returned with Dan Michaels and when he busted out the rope we thought he was kidding.

Remember how JB used to do all those laps on the Torture Chamber? That guy's pain threshold was incredible. Down in that area was Borgman's Bulge, which was harder for me than the Eliminators and the stuff on the Mental Block because I weighted so fricking much and that high left hold on Borgman's was so tiny. Took me like 10 tries to get that thing.

I used to go to the Buffalo Chip at lunch from Corona Del Mar High School (class of '75). One time I was over there by myself and pitched off the top of the bulge problem (broken hold, of course). It was a bad landing and I lay there with the wind knocked out of me and literally seeing stars. Took at least 15 minutes just to get off the ground, ouch.

I think it's still there, you could see it from the road as of a few years ago. I'll drive by soon and eyeball it.

Yes the buffalo chip is still there! over grown and coverd with spider webs. If you don't want to drive out there ? just look at a map? they built bonita canyon dr. north of it, before it was off ford rd.

when they built the park they pushed 5 feet of dirt at it's base so it's not so groovy. Randy go check it out?
little has changed Dave

Yes Spencer, I do remember! I "ran away" after some big fight with my mom and we hitched to Humber. You took a nasty fall on Valhalla and sprained your ankle. Luckily Roy Naaz (Derek Starr) was there and helped me carry you down (mostly on his back). Didn't we get a ride part way back with the lovely Debbie Winter from LA? Then your mom came out, picked us up and drove us home from a hospital(?). She commented on a film a friend of yours had made called...."Mediocrity" as we passed the endless housing tracts in Anaheim that are even more endless now.

When I hear them calling that somebody's falling
I'm always the first to react
I shout to the man "Just hang on if you can
While I get my camera unpacked".
You've seen the wild hare in the gulleys
His antics are wholly absurd
Compared to the sight and the poetry in flight
Of man taking wing like a bird.
--The Manchester Delinquent's Song, Tom Patey

Now, guys... Some of you are waxing rhapsodical about something that was The One True Hunk™! Graham and I went there and probably did the firsts on that left-side arete. 'Twas such a farce, that I only went back there maybe once more. And, by that time, Mike had ripped-off the key chunk on the face so that was deemed a gonner. Never went back, for very good reason. "...maybe 35-40 high..." is just a bit of an exaggeration don't ya think? Buffalo Chip, indeed.

Somebody go get us a picture, pronto. That way, the rest of us won't need to bother to do the inspection ourselves. (Me? I'm waxing lackadaisical!)

(Those in favor of electing Randy to do it, say "aye". Nay? The ayes have it... So moved.)

I refuse to believe what I am reading above. Pirate’s Cove allegedly “closed” by the authorities? Preposterous. The “city ordinance” which gave City Ordinance Crack its name belatedly enforced to prevent climbing at the beach? Absurd. The Buffalo Chip, first described in the rare and collectible first edition of the Hunk Guide to Orange County, buried or blasted? Not likely.

Not with Randy Vogel living a few miles down the road! I know Randy Vogel. Randy Vogel is a friend of mine. No one has done more than Randy to keep climbing areas open, as one of the founders of the Access Fund and veteran of numerous brawls with authorities over climbing rights. Randy is a champion street fighter for climbing access and would not let some petty bureaucrat proclaim that one of Randy’s backyard climbing spots is now off limits for climbers, no matter how insignificant or squalid the area. The Randy I know would have rallied the local climbers to the barricades before the next city council meeting, had the authorities really attempted such a foolish thing.

On second thought maybe the Buffalo Chip is not worth the effort, but certainly Pirate’s Cove is, just for the principle if nothing else!

Clearly the ordinance makes NO mention of climbing. Although it does state no jumping. So I would venture to say if you fell off you could be in violation of the City Ordinance no. 725 and hence the law. They would have to prove intent to jump though. You would have a good argument that the crack was too greasy or your chalk bag was closed or your butt was hanging out too far. I would ask to judged by a jury of my peers. That way I would win for sure

The flood water pants were standard issue when the tide was coming in at CDM.

Oh, this is just great...

Now not only am I waiting on Gramicci to cough up Exhibit "R" but I'm also waiting on Randy to produce a photo of the Buffalo Chip. Double the fun..

henny, With all the recent Beta on how to find the buffalo chip I’d have better luck with that photo.

I'm sure Randy would have promptly answered your queries regarding a possible closure at Pirates Cove, but he is busily out trying to get photos of the Buffalo Chip in the pouring rain and snow.

Besides which, he know he must pick his "battles" and is spending his legal resources fighting the Bush administration's attempts to gut our civil rights and environmental laws, sell off all of our public lands to the highest bidders and finally close areas of great cultural, scenic and recreational values like Pirates Cove.

OK Hashbro, lets not get political here... Regardless of whether you're right or wrong...

Muir: Good one! Judged and convicted!

Randy out in the rain and snow? Are we talking about the same Randy? Let me guess, it's also -30 degrees, the winds are 150 mph, and the roads are covered with black ice. And he has to walk there and back shoeless, without sun glasses, and wearing shorts. POOR Randy! !NOT! The only "battle" I need him to fight is to make sure he gets the picture in focus. I'm not really that concerned about the climatic conditions that he might encounter while performing his appointed task.

Randy: Dude, we're still waitin' for that picture... Seeing as how I've never been there, I'm not sure the Buffalo Chip really exists... Need a picture as proof positive...

OK, its 11:37 a.m. Given the demand that either I or Gramicci actually produce a promised photo, I am taking a little Lunch Break in a few and will crawl on my hands and knees (maybe not)in the harsh current weather conditions (mid 60s) to the former site of The Chip and document my finds with the trusty digital camera.

If I locate it quickly, I might spin to The Beach and provide a recent snapshot. Stay tuned.

Good job, Randy! Looks like the weather conditions were extreme indeed! (Goaded? Who would've done such a thing? Robs???)

OK, I admit the Chip really does exist, even though I've never been there. But then again, now I'm really glad I haven't been there.

Spencer: Sorry, I should have let your post go without comment. You have every right to voice your opinions. If I really wanted to avoid a political debate I should have refrained from saying anything.

Can Bush and his policies be defended? There is a good reason his popularity is at an all time low. But this does not imply that I think everything/anything conservative is bad. Nor do I think everything/anything liberal is bad. I try to do what I think is best, given who I am and what I believe, regardless of party lines.

Once again, I apologize. Enough said. Lets get back to the climbing...

Who is the Biologist here? Hmmm? You? No. Me.
For the umpteenth time, chickens don't have talons. They have toenails (claws), toes, and soft, mushy, sad little feet. A perfect match for their soft, mushy, sad little brains. Questions?

Okay, seeing as how everybody seems to be here, maybe you all can help me remember something. First, I'll tell you what I do remember. Then you can help me with what I don't remember.

One sunny summer day at Suicide, I think circa 75/76, Kevin and I were at the base of New Gen getting ready to take a run on it. About the time we were ready to start the first pitch we heard voices around the corner by the base of the Pirate. Now normally we wouldn't have given this a second thought, but this time there were several distinctly female voices in the group. Given the timeframe when this occured, the female voices caught our attention and we decided to wait until we saw who was coming. Moments later Tobin, followed by three stark raving bikini top clad beauties, and several stonemasters, came into sight. The entire party promptly proceeds to set up camp at the base of Insomnia. The first thing that we noticed (okay, the second) was that the young ladies seemed to be totally hanging on everything that Tobin said or did. And to make things even more confusing, they obviously weren't climbers.
Tobin proceeded to lead Insomnia, and this simply served to seemingly impress the girls even more. Once he had brought up the first stonemaster, Tobin disappeared for a moment, then came back and stood at the lip where he could watch the next stonemaster run the Insomnia toprope. As he stood at the lip watching Tobin was casually talking to the young ladies. Suddenly, Tobin windmilled his arms once or twice and fell off the top. Only to be caught by the slack he had secretly tied into the system. Now the girls were really impressed. After the last stonemaster had finished the toprope, they, and Tobin with his harem in tow, headed off.

Seems Tobin was one smooth dude. In more ways than one.

To this day, neither Kevin nor I can remember who any of the other stonemasters were. Perhaps we were blinded by all the extreme scenery that was wandering around. Who knows.

Anyway, do any of you recollect being there when this incident occured? For some reason, I want to say that one face I remember through the haze was Randy, but that could be wrong. ??? And maybe someone could also clarify where the harem of non-climbers came from?

Who you fooling? Your FULL name is Gallus Domesticus. I'm guessing we should classify your variety as Dorking. Just a hunch. We'll serve you up at the new restaurant in town. El pollo antiguo. Served in dweezel sauce.

OK. For the record, I want to attest that I wasn't in that Tobin parade! (I'm sure I wouldn't have forgotten that.) And, Mr. Hawk, I'll hazard a guess that not many other Stonemasters were there, otherwise that story would have been legend! Great tale, though.

So... While we await the return of Mr. Vogel LLP, our intrepid voyager to the Bison Turd with indisputable digital evidence, here's a literary diversion:

Front and back cover of the famous guidebook that rocked the world.

and the seldom-seen inside cover of the Hunk Guide. (Good likeness of the Vogel, donchathink?)

Smuggled, at great risk to life and limb by Comrade Bolton, from deep behind the Orange Curtain.

This detail is from a slide taken on the top of the Captain in September, 1974. We had just toped-out on the Salathé. The route had been blazing hot the first day or two, but got increasingly cool as we got higher. So hot, that we almost bailed from 1,100'! Alan Bartlett, Dominque Thomas and I were suprised (stunned) to be met by two friends that we never expected. And they brought along fresh honeydew melon! Plus, they helped us haul The Pig back down via the Falls Trail! (Walking out in PAs is a thing to be forgotten!)

Pictured, from left to right, Gunnar Swanson, Alan Bartlett, Jim Hoagland, Robs Muir and Dominique Thomas. Of interest here is the image of Hoagland; I think this is the only photo I have of one of the very first Stonemasters.

No one seems to know the whereabouts of Hoagland. Rumor is that he might be working in petroleum exploration in Thailand, Indonesia or summat...

Randy, thanks. I will sleep a little better tonight knowing the Buffalo Chip is intact and that climbing freedom is still on the march (ascent?) at Pirates Cove. “Groundless” was nice.

JL, I needed help to remember Anabelle Overhang and it was one of the “plums”. Someone will have to refresh my memory with Big Ricky; I’m drawing a blank. I am digging through some slides and did find a shot or two of Bachar on Diamond Man, Gramicci on the balancey mantle to top out Anabelle and the less steep, but still challenging Italian Face. Will try to post them.

Mike-That trip to Colorado where you met up with Bachar and JL for bouldering must have been in 1976 or 77? Would have liked to have seen those sessions when the A Team of California bouldering visited Colorado. I remember having Mark Wilford show me around Horsetooth in 1978. I wouldn’t commit to the Left Eliminator move that Bachar is doing in the picture. Maybe I’ll borrow a couple of jumbo 12” pads and give it another look this summer.

Robs, Hope you didn’t damage one of the few remaining Hunk Guides in order to scan it. You get that thing signed by the author and I expect Chessler would pay a small fortune for it, or just laugh at you. Regardless, the text is priceless.

Henny- wasn’t present, but I seem to recall someone else telling me that story about Tobin, Bullwinkle maybe?

Well, I can vouch for the "Chicken's" story about the "harem" I distinctly remember them. Very distinctly! As for the other stonemasters, no recollection. I think Tobin's stunt of pretending to fall of the top messed up my mind and gave me selective memory. Luckily it was for the things most desireable.

Rick, might have been 77 and as more comes back to me it was in the Fall. I remember spending a wild Halloween 21st birthday in boulder. Dave and I were out all night hitting every bar in a big way. Some girl named Christina even married me that night, I think Brashears preformed the ceremony.

Back to Horsetooth, here’s another shot. We even put up a problem or two of our own. Bachar had every Chick Corea album so the music was always in your head. So after one of those songs I called this one “Movement of Heavy Metal” with its super long dyno

Graham - nice shot...I remember that problem - I got some photos of you on it as well (somewhere). cool.

Largo - I just "discovered" Gill's website (via Curt, Gill's bouldering buddy) - very cool. I ripped off this photo from the site (thanks John for posting it!). Remember that day in Lost Canyon? Juggernaut, Penny Ante, new problems...check Gill's hat on the boulder...

Largo - check this photo from Gill's site (www.johngill.net - killer site - thanks again John!) ...same day as that other photo above... a really good day. Thanks to you for calling him up and gettng me out there...

I put it there right off the bat when we started working on the problem. The name stuck right away - from the Hendrix song 'Midnight Lightning' (oh so frightening...).
Plus we felt like our chances of making it were about the same as a lightning stike happening exactly at midnight (close to zero!)....it all just kinda fit together.

That was a great tour Gill took us on. I especially liked the white hat. Nice touch by a super nice guy.

But I doubt I only weighted 185 back in then. Probably more like 2 bills.

Remember those couple of problems we found while hiking out? We couldn't do them (too tired) but they would have gone with some work. I hear the entire area has been closed down. Bummer. Those were great problems and a fine area.

We sure did a lot of driving back then just to go bouldering. Got by via good jazz and staunch pipeloads.

Yeah, that place is amazing. I remember we were working out pretty hard back then - you were about the buffest I ever remember - I edited the 185lb. by the way...

You had that VW bug that you used to beat the hell out of. We drove up to Gill's house and then went to McDonald's with him for a Big Mac before heading out to the Lost Canyon...can't make up sh#t like that.

He was up here last summer...first time I'd talked to him since that day! He still looks pretty damn strong too....cheers, jb