BTF wrote:Is there a requirement for every single half decent thread to be ruined by little spats and jibes based on folks having different opinions?

This was a good thread, it could still be, there's been some great, and some useless stuff posted. Could it be kept to the former? And if possible, Ted, could you backup your statements, particularly this 'friend' of yours. Since (as posted above), they would stand to be thrown out of the forces if they've divulged classified information to you.

Whether that has implications for you, I don't know. Regardless of Aurora being cancelled, it is still classed as classified I'd have thought.

nervy wrote:Ted, can I see some evidence for the existence of Aurora? You dont have to show these other non-believers if you like, but Im enthralled.

1) My friend in military ATC controlled them. He knew how fast and how high they were. He spoke to the pilots on the radio.2) All the building work and ultra high security at RAF Macrahanish at the time. Why else do this?3) The big $6 billion that the USAF spends on "Black " projects every year. There must be something to show for this much money.4) The corresponding bulge in Lockheed turnover and profits that is not explained by known projects.5) Just what were skunk works making after F117? A very good question. They are still there with all their resources and capabilities and they are not sitting round playing cards.6) The vapour trails. No known aircraft could make these. And the very high altitude sonic booms recorded by seismiological equipment.7) UK ministry of defence openly admits to US "Programme 2 and Programme 3" black project aircraft flying in UK skies. Jane's are the top aviation and defence authority in the world. They think it existed.9) Chris Gibson (and another person) saw an Aurora flying over the North Sea rig they were on. Chris Gibson had been in the Royal Observer Corps's trophy winning international aircraft recognition team since 1980.10) The USAF retired SR 71 quite suddenly at a time when they still had a manned strategic reconnaisance requirement. So what did they replace it with?11) The technology, money, need and will existed to make this plane. There is nothing about the project that is remotely improbable.

sorry, Ted- none of that is evidence. It's mostly speculation, questions or what people 'think'.

Or will a follow up post from you answer them? I'd really like to know the answers (not to my question, to yours).

BTF wrote:Is there a requirement for every single half decent thread to be ruined by little spats and jibes based on folks having different opinions?

This was a good thread, it could still be, there's been some great, and some useless stuff posted. Could it be kept to the former? And if possible, Ted, could you backup your statements, particularly this 'friend' of yours. Since (as posted above), they would stand to be thrown out of the forces if they've divulged classified information to you.

Whether that has implications for you, I don't know. Regardless of Aurora being cancelled, it is still classed as classified I'd have thought.

Service people will sometimes tell you stuff after a few beers. Especially if you are just chatting round a subject.

My friend was in the RAF, miltary ATC based in Prestwick, one time we chatted about this when I visited him there and had consumed some beer. He also told anacdotes of F-111 pilots getting lost in the glens and popping up to ask where they were. And other such stuff. Including this new plane that was faster and higher than SR-71 that was running into Macrahanish. As this was about 20 years ago he has long left the forces.

Another time I was getting well beered up with my ex PR Canberra pilot neighbour and he told me about being somewhere where he shouldn't be when the Navy frigate that was following him on radar told him there were Migs zooming up to greet him. And how he used the comparative performances of the two planes to avoid being shot down.

And now an anecdote from me. When I was in the RAF cadets I spent a week at RAF Wildenrath. They had Canberras there for nuclear strike and for reconnaisance. We were let loose in the photo development section. All the pictures of NATO assets, Bridges, bunkers, airfields, railways that disappeared underground in forests etc were labeled up as classified. I wandered around with my eyes open and came upon some photos of airfields, bunkers etc that were labelled up "secret". So obviously the guys were spending some fun time in Eastern Europe. Will the miltary thought police come after me now?

Another time I was in the Vulcan hangar at RAF Fairford chatting to the guys that serviced them. I happened to mention the publicly quoted figure for the thrust of the Olympus jets and he told me what the true figure was.

I DO have something serious to say about the content of this thread, but I shall raise it in an entirely new thread of my own. One which hopefully contains mutual discourse and cogitation, not just myopia and endless spouting of hearsay, rumor and fabricated guff as "fact".

Sexy Ted wrote:Service people will sometimes tell you stuff after a few beers. Especially if you are just chatting round a subject.

My friend was in the RAF, miltary ATC based in Prestwick, one time we chatted about this when I visited him there and had consumed some beer. He also told anacdotes of F-111 pilots getting lost in the glens and popping up to ask where they were. And other such stuff. Including this new plane that was faster and higher than SR-71 that was running into Macrahanish. As this was about 20 years ago he has long left the forces.

Another time I was getting well beered up with my ex PR Canberra pilot neighbour and he told me about being somewhere where he shouldn't be when the Navy frigate that was following him on radar told him there were Migs zooming up to greet him. And how he used the comparative performances of the two planes to avoid being shot down.

And now an anecdote from me. When I was in the RAF cadets I spent a week at RAF Wildenrath. They had Canberras there for nuclear strike and for reconnaisance. We were let loose in the photo development section. All the pictures of NATO assets, Bridges, bunkers, airfields, railways that disappeared underground in forests etc were labeled up as classified. I wandered around with my eyes open and came upon some photos of airfields, bunkers etc that were labelled up "secret". So obviously the guys were spending some fun time in Eastern Europe. Will the miltary thought police come after me now?

Another time I was in the Vulcan hangar at RAF Fairford chatting to the guys that serviced them. I happened to mention the publicly quoted figure for the thrust of the Olympus jets and he told me what the true figure was.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". Quite apart from which, only one of those anecdotes relates to your claim that the US DoD operated a top secret black project spy plane from the edge of a public golf course. And it is basically the same anecdote that you told us earlier.

I think we can safely say that the answer to the question "can you provide evidence for the existence of the Aurora?" is "no".

Me? I actually think there was an Aurora project... they got some designs, a budget, perhaps even a prototype... then they realised it was all a bit pointless and costly. they already have spyplanes. why buy another?

However, as something to keep the conspiracy nuts running round in circles wetting themselves, it's genius. Some half truths, a 'leak' here.. a 'my atc mate' story there... and hey presto, a whole bunch of sex starved half lives are tying themselves up in knots chasing it, and totally ignoring the stuff that the US govt actually wants to get on with, that's a whole lot duller, such as unmanned spy planes that look a bit like B2 stealths... (i saw it on future weapons).

My 2 cents is that there have been many, many prototype/testbed/half-baked secret aircraft in the past. The incredibly amazingly awesome B2 Spirit is an admitted evolution of these secret/black projects.

Whether they have got a working ramjet/scramjet/pulse drive which can fly long distances is another story.

Pic of real cool plane to make up for shitty renders:

Cool factoid about the B2 - it needs to be kept in a massive (it has a 50m wingspan) airconditioned hangar, or it's "anti-detection coatings" degrade. Who knows what they're made of???

TheCaseAce wrote:Cool factoid about the B2 - it needs to be kept in a massive (it has a 50m wingspan) airconditioned hangar, or it's "anti-detection coatings" degrade. Who knows what they're made of???

Not as cool as the factoid about the first "official" depolyment of the F117 - the gulf war that is, depending on whether you believe the sortie of F111s didn't in fact bomb Libya, but were a radar cover for the F117s... anyway I digress.

The F117s were flown in to the US base, and parked off the beaten track, away from the rest of the coalition forces. As they were to all intents and purposes brand spanking new, the grunts didn't know much about them, much less how to look after them. Over the coming days, they found increasing numbers of dead bats surrounding the aircraft every morning. When the "proper" engineers arrived, who knew what the aircraft was all about, they realised that the bat's "radar" couldn't "see" the aircraft, so rather like a fly at a window pane, they just kept flying in to them until they dropped dead...

I have no definite views on Aurora's existence (or not) - but I offer a story that has been reported in the aviation press before...

Boscombe Down Airfield (nr Salisbury). A plane requests a landing at night, and apparently cocks it up and ends up with knackered nose wheel assembly and is stranded at the far end of a runway.

No biggy so far.

The runway in question is easily visible from the A303.

Dawn rises and the plane is still stranded there, but has been completely shrouded in scaffolding and tarpaulins by first light,so there is "nothing to see here"

The conspiracy theorists then go into overdrive, as a large cargo plane leaves Lockheed with a flight plan to Ramstein in Germany. Curiously it develops a "fault" during this flight, and requests a landing at Boscombe Down...

It lands at dusk, taxis to the mystery plane still clad in scaffolding, and loads it into its hold.

The "fault" seems to be magically cured at this point, and the cargo plane then flies back over the Atlantic back to Lockheed...

Hardly conclusive to the existence of Aurora, but certainly points to the existence of a secret plane (or a plane that was deemed worth the effort of keeping away from prying eyes!)

I'll try and find a link to the article and post it here. Edited to add: