Guize, I AM getting some very "obvious" freeze out behavior = lack of ANY sexual contact or INTIMATE contact = hand holdiing is minimal. THAT part has definetly been playing a HUGE role in my attempts to be selfish & save myself through out his & OUR healing process.

re-reading Scot said something that STUCK OUT - (paraphrase here) - that Hubby is hiding something from me. DAMN thats exactly what I feel ssooooo much of the time. BUt not the usual, Porn or prostitutes type of acting out hiding -- but an "emotional" hiding , something he is feeling but is for what ever reason holding back.

Dave said something else that stuck out for me - along the lines of "MY Boundaries" & him feeling controlled by them... YES DAVE he does feel SOME control , but it is NOT boundaries that I have expressed verbally to him, at least to MY knowledge or memory. I have never ever told or asked him to explain his time etc. HOWEVER, I can now recognize I "caught" myself asking if he was going to go to a Mtg when it was time for the mtg, in fact then began a short "reasoning" as to WHY he could still go - even tho he was only a few minits late start -

I quickly shut down the conversation as I realized it was UNFAIR pressure & me attempting to Pressure him. BUT I felt like "shit" because the wording I used was "excuse words" - he was tired, it was his choice, he needed rest due to his schedule --- and then I ended up feeling angry and pissed off at MYSELF for "feeding into" his classic behavior of NOT dealing or facing his issues also -- sort of a stupid circle that everything was "reasonable" but unreasonable at the same time? (shit i hope that made sense)

I recognize now that I can easily make excuses for him , but give NOTHING to myself for excuses or reason for behavior = I hold MYSELF to a higher standard than I do him. Then proceed to internally be angry at him and at me -- a "fight" that NEVER gets fought?

I am pissed at MYSELF and at HIM and have not taken a chance to Express not only my anger and frustration because I am and have always been able to "reason" out in any number of fashions that more often than NOT end up Protecting him from my anger that has never been addressed - so my anger comes out by "punishing him" with snotty comments & return freezing him out. Oh I can WRITE it out in a journal - but that is as far as I can get it productively.

Dave, I also realized I feel "controlled" by him with his actions of making himself "unavailable" to me with his over work & over perfectionism he expects of HIMSELF , then I feed right into that by trying to be the "perfect support & wife". For a multitude of reasons - i.e. he supported me during my own break down & therapies = I feel I "owe" him, but the truth is as I percieve it - THAT is what a life partner automatically does for another (thank you to my dysfunctional mothers & my own abuse shit) -- so WHY am I babying him? He is NO MORE fragile than I was/ am at the time I broke down and got dirty with dealing with my own abuse issues. (PLEASE no one take this as I have my abuse shit mastered I WAAAAYY dont, it has just changed yet again).

I do agree I AM trying for "compromises" to get thru until he has or is "ready" to deal directly with his issues = consisitency in therapy etc. I also recognize that the "compromises" I am settling for at this time I SURELY am gaining something from for my own personal shit, I just dont know what yet? -Hmmm?

MR -- I dont have any (that i am aware of at this time) pretentious hope that Hubby will do some thing such as Arise from the Ashes & REscue my dumb as on a white horse -- I have a father such as yours also = I DONT TRUST and because Hubby was convicted for having sex with the 20 yr old -- I waaaaayyy know he is no Knight in shining Armor, I have to do that part FOR MYSELF.

Kolisha brings up a great point and I have to straight up admit to MY OWN waving back & forth - I send double messages also to Hubby. I have worked and am working very HARD to try to Identify when I am doing this --

I know it more than knocked the wind out of my sails when HUbby told me that he has been and is often AFRAID of me not only my words but my actions. Tho I have NEVER been physically violent with ANY of my family -- Hubby HAS witnessed me stand up to some really dangerous shit ball criminals and kick their asses. ACTIONS DO speak louder than I could scream. I am SURE that him witnessing (sp)this left a HUGE impression upon him & my daughs have told me so.

Part of me is proud of my work in the community that I did those actions - now I am embarrassed and ashamed of HOW this has effected my loved ones.

In the past I was a SCREAMER in our arguments -- never hit or threw things (threw things in therapy as therapy work but he nor my children witnessed this) --

I do retain HOPE - hope for "changes" and know and Hubby & I have spoken about this, that IF the intended and promised marriage counseling does not work we know we may need to divorce. I figure our odds of success are just plain 50/50... I retain HOPE for success to have a better HEALTH quality of living.

I KNOW I am suffering with SEVERE depression at this time - Yet I just cannot seem to bring myself to go BACK YET AGAIN to one on one therapy -- perhaps it is to "punish" Hubby ??? perhaps because if feels so Hopeless to do so after most of our marriage I HAVE been in therapy -- better than 15 + yrs of therapy and I am not feeling any better?

My excuse to Hubby today after being "triggered" by watching TV's Dr Phil show on incest is that MY therapist is now working for a facility that the guy who attempted to beat me up attends therapy there & I was 'afraid' to run into him. A HUGE load of bullshit - and Hubby happily agreed he "understood", but that i could always beat this guy with my cane again -- ya, sick humor we use -- but what I NEEDED from him & am not going to get as he want to protect me as much as I do him ... I needed him to call me on the carpet tell me that was a line of bullshit and I could easily avoid this asshole by making sure my Therapist scheduled appts on different days than this shit ball.

In reality I also know that how in the fuck can HUBBY know or be able to say anything like that to me with the risk of me going ballistic with a stupid statement like ---- you dont care, you dont get it blah bla blah--- BIG risk for Hubby....

I know I can pick Hubby apart to shreds as to WHAT HE could / should do to heal himself -- but I am so baffled by my OWN crap I can hardly flush the toilet of my smell?

The shitty part of this is TRULY there isnt anything he cant tell me that I cant identify or understand with empathy HIS position --- I feel frozen I geuss for my OWN crap in dealing with HIS crap too? UGH ...

I babbled on again --- and have placed myself magically back into the "woe is me" bull & now have my own lists of "too busy's" ------ how dare I point a finger at him? when I still have 3 pointing back at me?

I gotta call that beloved damn therapist yet again to get my head out of my ass and "get busy living or get busy dying" (quoted from the Shawshank Redemption -Stephen King)----

Thanks for reading this mini novel -- your input is VALUABLE ...anyone got an extra Kick in the Butt for me?Peace, Sammy

An extra kick in the six well here goes nothing,I myself am a survivor and I have many flaws just like anyone else however,I myself because of how I have dealt with my abuse have created walls/buriers that I thought were unpenetratable well yet again I was wrong because every time I try to be "A cold hearted closed emotional bastard" someone comes along and manages to sneak around that wall somehow I must have a hole or flaw that needs more concrete around it.

I am guilty of becoming a person who shuts down emotionally and like your hubby I went and just recently had my "Last Will & Testament drawn up" I have been going thru a lot medically myself but more so I guess as a destructive mode of apporindi I don't care if I live or die my philosiphy is I am ready to go so just take me and end my pain and suffering so I no longer have to deal with this shit.My spouse as well flipped out the day I went and had this done and played the 20 questions game as well as "The old lets play trivial pursuit" which just closes me down further.

I also am guilty of turning to the bottle to deal with things as well when I get to the point of not being able to talk or open up to anyone in my life.Be gentle with your spouse and remeber what it is like to not want to speak of the abuse or the emotions/thoughts surrounding the abuse.As for hiding funds I am guilty of the same as a mode of if your going to fuck me then I can turn around and be even more ruthless and be just as much an asshole right back,remeber a relationship is a two way street and that goes for "Expensive lets sit on a couch and talk about our feelings and thoughts with a shrink who probably drives an expensive car and lives a lavish lifestyle thanks to us all who tend to think we need their services.I am guilty of the same thing making myself just as much "Busy" to avoid marriage shrinking my spouse did the same damn thing to me and what makes it twice as worse she brought in another Naval comrade so now not only do I get to play the lets fix your marriage but lets remind you of your career as well and reminders of how we dealt with things in the service as well to get us through to endure.

Might have more for you later to chew on as I ponder on this vector more.

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Eye of tiger stares down perp,tiger teeth rips perp to shredsto be abused kills the soulto survive is to live the ultimate punishment

Andrew, You brought to my atttention something that I have overlooked and I want to say a THANK YOU with the utmost sincerity.

I forgot that Hubby just had his Will done with an Attny - I think that no matter whether we are in a "good space" or not, having that will done WAS a huge amount of pressure on him. Then he also went to Dr ( his idea) & got a strange result on his blood work. ALL that I am sure has added to his stress level. It has me scared & frightened also --

Please dont mis understand me, I dont play "20 questions" with him - its unproductive as hell and only serves in my experience to make me feel like his "mother" and further pushes him into silence or anger. I dont like 20 ?'s crap anymore than the next person.

I AM trying like hell to be "gentle" with him. I let my anger out in "journaling" & share it here. Sharing it here I feel at least "heard".

Further NEVER have I EVER called his boss or called him at work unless it was an emergency - in all of my working experience I found that behavior obnoxious and insulting (besides I was being paid to WORK not chat!)when "others" did this.

HE however is a GOOD man to me who calls me on his breaks and checks on how MY day is going. I am very careful about WHAT I tell him as I cannot let him know just regular minor every day feel like poop stuff -- it only makes him worry needlessly. I DO however ask him how HIS day is going in return & give him an opportunity to "vent" if needed.

I know you are not saying that I have done these things ...

In regards to the marriage counseling, --- I really dont know what to say - I cant schedule this, HE is the one with a job which comes 1st his duties there ---

So perhaps your enlightement to me of him just having his Will etc worked up "triggered" him a bit more? ---

I know this feeling and identify with it now

Quote:

I don't care if I live or die my philosiphy is I am ready to go so just take me and end my pain and suffering so I no longer have to deal with this shit.

I DON'T tell anyone this feeling because it would only get me committed to some idiotic place that would do me no good -- I feel I have to slug thru this muck until I come out on the ohter end some how.

I noticed something here, and please forgive me for being so forward in saying this. It seems that you tend to rationalize his behavior, give him the "outs" he needs, but when it comes to you, you are exceptionally hard on yourself.

This is learned behavior, I know. And you're aware of it, but I think you need to hear from other people that it's okay to be mad and frustrated at what he's doing. And it is, because no matter what he's learned or how he feels, you both are a couple and there are things you need to share together. Maybe not at that time or place, but sometime, and not to "shut it away" forver.

This is something I'm still learning. It's easier to just deal with myself than other people, but it's not right. Never will be either.

Be easy on yourself, Sammy. You're allowed to have needs, too.

((((((((((((Sammy))))))))))))

Peace and love,

Scot

P.S. If they locked away everyone who just want to die some days, well, color me there. Rubber walls are looking very appealing to me right now. :p

You get the picture here. In the book "Tuesdays With Morrie" - Morrie, speaks of a "Tension of Opposites". (paraphrasing here) Basically Morrie as he is dying tells "us" that our whole lives are filled with these "Tensions of Opposites". More so when they can effect/ affect our core inner beliefs and or self talk. Morrie also says "We are here to love each other".

I like to hold onto that last line, because it gets me thru the times when the Rubber Room is either full or someone else wont share the crayons.

Yes, I know I hold myself to higher standards, some of it comes from my own experiences, some of it is the traditonal "women training" - and a hell of a lot of it comes from just "having been there".

That's all great to say until I'm in the middle of this stuff and ALL my thoughts, experience, rational etc goes right the hell out of the window.

So, Questions -- HOW in the hell do I ASK the questions that need to be asked WITHOUT triggering the shit out of him? - THAT is a loaded queston because, pretty much ANY question is gonna trigger him -- even if its something so simple as - Are we going to cut the trees this weekend?

Is it "acceptable" to ask that as part of OUR healing he attend group consistently even IF we arent active in marriage counseling yet? ** I FEEL as if I need this ONE action to validate for ME that he REALLY does and will take action on the promise of marriage counseling.**

My personal belief is that the one hour a week is NOT too much to ask of him UNTIL we can begin the marriage counseling. 1) I'm tired of his blowing his cookies at me for unknown shit that has pissed him off 2) I feel that it is or should be a good faith effort on HIS part that he will not drop this or "forget" about this promise (of marriage counseling) by becoming too busy again 3) I feel the MEN in his group are better equiped to handle this DEFRAG than me

I understand much of what I am seeking depends Souly upon HIS needs & healing place. ARE my proposed requested needs unfair or too much?

This is where my own thought process comes in that "I" do things for HIM to support him & have in the past that I did as a PARTNER , perhaps I didnt like doing them so much , but I did them BECAUSE I made a promise to him to support him. and no I am not talking about sharing dish duty.

I have begun to even feel guilty for this thread - Honest to Great Creator I am trying like hell to hang on until he is done with this schooling this time. A FEW more weeks , the end of Oct.

It was easier I swear to God when he would go out to sea - at least I KNEW when to NOT depend on him & how to function without him then. I KNEW what and how to handle him coming back & the defrag process then -- BUT even tho' he may be "out to sea" right now, I still have to see his face every day & there is no time for DEFRAG!

****CAUTION CUSSING HERE***maybe I did a bad thing yesterday - perhaps I didnt. BUT one of the guys who is a real fucking asshole at work = calls him a dumbass everyday & so happily harrasses the shit out of him for the sex offender conviction -- this asshole at work felt the need to deal drugs out of the back door at work = I callled my undercovers who "slowed" his business, anytoohoo's this shit bag got nailed for the umpteenth time for driving under a suspended license (also got turned in for harboring underage runaways but NOT a freaking thing happened legally to him for that = drugs booze underage females asshole laffed about the whole thing) -- anyway Mgmt has done NOTHING to protect hubby from this fucker -- so Hubby calls & tells me shitbag got busted on his lunch break for driving under suspended license, then later finds out X wife turned in asshole to opposite state cops (asswipe tells everyone his tale of woe) -- so Hubby is GIDDY in telling me this .... I may be very wrong here, but I couldnt stop myself from "cautioning him" against being too happy as it made him no better than asswipe & Karma was happening to be cautious. Our current State S.O. laws are in change something incredible ---- Was I wrong in pointing this out? (i dont condone asshole, but felt Hubby was "lowering" himself to asshole level)

I am shutting up for a bit -- Hope someone WILL please feel free to add their thoughts and or feelings... I AM LISTENING

You were right on in what you said to Dave before, and I think this might be the key you need to start finding the questions you have for yourself--

Quote:

I also realized I feel "controlled" by him with his actions of making himself "unavailable" to me with his over work & over perfectionism he expects of HIMSELF , then I feed right into that by trying to be the "perfect support & wife".

There is more than one way to try and control your spouse. His inaction and lack of availability are a method that he is using to get something out of you-- just the same as you trying to talk him into a meeting or trying to "caution" him away from a certain train of thought.

This is SO frustrating because if you are doing something, it's easy for him (or you) to say "stop it," but he has it set up so that you can't easily ask him to stop the behaviors that are controlling you-- what are you supposed to say, "Stop not doing that?"

What if you are ahead of him in healing? Are you willing to slow down or regress in your own healing? Are you willing to change your boundaries of what's acceptable and not acceptable? You say you've made a promise to be supportive of him, what does that mean? Does it mean accepting wrong and hurtful behavior? Does it mean never hurting his feelings? What did you really commit to here? How healthy and realistic are the terms of that promise? How can you get to a place where the thing you're promising to him is something you are capable of giving and still having something for yourself?

I never responded to a PM of yours from some time ago because honestly I was just at a loss to answer something you asked in it-- so I asked my boyfriend about it-- it was this:

Quote:

I often ask myself "Is all this shit really worth it?" - then something amazing big happens with his actions and then it somehow like childbirth pains, magically quickly go away?

This did happen for me-- but not for him. We had a long talk about something that had hurt me deeply-- it was a really painful talk but afterwards my hurt was pretty much gone. And in talking to him I realized that the difference is in the amount of emotion and acceptance that each of us were bringing to the conversation. The whole time I had allowed myself to face what had happened and really FEEL the impact of it-- so all of it was out there for the big talk to wipe away. This didn't happen for him because he wasn't at a place where he could remember and attach emotions to the memories. So the conversation was painful to him too, but the healing power of it was inaccessible to him.

The words "Out to sea" ring so true for me as I am ex-navy and I can see so many things in your husband that I see in myself.Drawing up my Last Will & Testament and also as well getting bad results from blood work and doctors that would crush me to want to do these manuveurs also as well the not talking rings so true for me as I don't want to tell my loved ones if I was at a place of contention and really failing health hate to say it but as of today the cat is out of the bag.My wife and I went to counseling today and I finally let her have how I feel and that my life to me is already over and I told her point blank she has everything she would ever want a great home a great job great health care family,my family and now a child that she is carrying that she wanted however for me I live in constant pain and learned that my thyroid is cancerous and my doctors don't give me much time left so I flat out told her she will be fine without me and to do just one thing to let my child know who I was and am and why I wanted out of planet earth and why daddy is going to be waiting on the other side for them one day.

I can't find a way to tell my wife this bad news as I don't want her to not be able to take the news and not know how to help me and know that I am on my way out.I want for her to be happy and it seems to me that would be better off without me she does not need a person that she loves dragging her down because the doctors can't help me anymore.Trying to cope with the news I received recently and trying to make some very hard decisions.I am not trying to alarm anyone just honestly the way I am feeling now.

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Eye of tiger stares down perp,tiger teeth rips perp to shredsto be abused kills the soulto survive is to live the ultimate punishment

I've only just read this thread. How on earth you had the strength or inclnation to offer support, encouragemnet and advise to me when you have so much going on in your own life is amazing. You are amazing.

I am going to hazard a guess that if you feel anything like me you are well aware of how far you can be pushed before enough is enough. The question is having the strength / courage to leave.

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