assumed we have 7,5% hit and 7,5% exp and therefore, have reached spell hit cap and melee hit cap, and our melee attacks can't be dodged anymore:Could it be possible that haste gives more Shield of the Righteous uptime now than exp?

Jugdement always hits and gains nothing from expertise, so the only HP generator exp influences is CS (+Grand Crusader procs).But haste improves BOTH, CS and Judgement, by the same rate each, that exp improves CS.My conclusion is, haste>exp(after exp-softcap), but that differs from the mainstream opinion (getting exp-hardcap).

Hm, I'm pretty sure Judgement always hits. Just tested it, with some pieces of armor taken off, 60 Judgements, 60 hits on the boss training dummy. My chance to get parried is 7,5% and my chance to get dodged is 4,33% (i took some peices of armor off).The chance of this happening would be below a tenth of a percent ((1-(0,075+0,0433))^60=0,000523902472), if Judgement was on the melee table.

where m is your chance to miss (really the sum of miss+dodge+parry, for this let's assume you're already at 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise so we're only concerned with parry) and h is your decimal haste (i.e. 10%=0.10).

Ahhh, of course. It's an absolute "percentage point" increase, applying it to the smaller coefficient is of course a higher increase overall. I should have thought this through before assuming stuff.

Thank you very much for explaining.

Edit: Actually, your m influenced the complete B, even though a part of B, the Judgement part is not influenced by it. The whole B is influenced by haste, though. So I think your calculations might be incorrect (please read my latest post)

Doesn't this only cover the HPG rate of Crusader Strike? What about the HPG rate of Judgement which is not influenced by m? The factor (1-m) only applies to the part of B which is generated by CS.

If I do the same for Crusader Strike and Judgement I get this:Assume we have 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise. Let J be the base HP generation of Judgement and C the base HP generation of Crusader Strike.J is not influenced by m, because as you confirmed earlier, Judgement can not be parried or dodged, and we have reached the hit cap, so we are only concerned about parry. So assume for the moment m=0,075 (because we have only 7.5% exp) and h=0. C is increased by factor 1.2 to include Grand Crusader.Our actual HPG rate A is then: A = C*(1-m)*(1+h)*1.2 + J*(1+h) = C*(1-0.075)*1*1.2 + J*1 = 1.11C+1J

You are correct, thanks! I forgot that. But it's still not enough difference to change the result, at least not with a 3% example. I corrected it and added other examples (exp hardcap vs 6% haste and 0.5%exp vs 0.4%haste) which show the same results.

Assumed my calculation was correct, which I don't know (I hope that theck will have another look) and haste yields more HPG per minute on average, expertise might still be better because exp hardcap means we can only ever have a certain timewindow without SHoR-Buff, while the haste-approach is not "luck-proof". Also, I don't know if ShotR can be parried and if it still gives the buff when parried.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

Hm... you're right, I wasn't being rigorous enough there. It would be accurate for hit rating, but for expertise CS and J should really be treated independently. However, if we're going to go to that level of rigor, we need to do so more accurately than you did.

What we're really comparing are those last two terms: Ae=1.2*C*(1+h)*dm and Ah=(1.2*C*(1-m)+J)*dh. But we want to do so in terms of rating r, and since dm=r/340 and dh=r/425, we can write:

Ae=(1.2*C*(1+h)/340)*rAh=((1.2*C*(1-m)+J)/425)*r

For h=0, m=0.075, we get

Ae = (7.8431e-4)*rAh = (9.2897e-4)*r

So at 0% haste and exp soft-cap, haste is about 18% better for HPG than expertise. Conversely, it takes about 18.44% haste before expertise catches up to haste.

So yes, haste is actually better for holy power generation than expertise. That doesn't really matter though, since the advice to hard-cap expertise isn't based on raw HPG or SotR uptime. It was based on damage smoothing, and in those simulations the hit/exp capped gear set out-performed the soft-capped gear set that stacked haste.

The difference wasn't huge, but it was also a stochastic simulation (i.e. get as much SotR uptime as possible). In practice, a good player is banking and using HP intelligently, and the certainty that your next generator will hit has even more value there. Nothing sucks more than missing a Crusader Strike and dying to the next melee attack because you couldn't refresh SotR.

Last edited by theckhd on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yep, typo from generally using "dm" and "m" for mastery. In this case I used them for a generic "miss." Not the clearest notation, I guess, but it got the point across. I'll edit the other post for clarity.