Q Scott, last night on the Tonight Show, Jay Leno, who apparently is subbing for Johnnie, displayed a video of the President at the Capitol yesterday. In that video, the President walking away from the press lifts his hand and raises a finger. Mr. Leno interpreted it as, shall we say, a finger of hostility. Each of our fingers has a special purpose and meaning in life. (Laughter.) Can you tell us what finger it was he held up?

MR. McCLELLAN: Ken, I'm not even going to dignify that with much of a response. But if someone is misportraying something, that's unfortunate.

Q Well, it was not a finger of hostility?

MR. McCLELLAN: Ken, I was there with him, and I'm just not going to --- I'm not going to dignify that with a response. I mean, I haven't seen the video that you're talking about, but I know the way the President acts. And if someone is misportraying it, that's unfortunate.

UPDATE 4:00p PT: Aravosis at AMERICAblog received a call from the White House with a fresh explanation:

David Almacy just called me from the White House communications office to clarify the reports that Bush flipped off reporters yesterday while visiting the Hill. David says that Bush was definitely giving the thumbs up sign with regards to the upcoming CAFTA vote (Central American Free Trade Agreement). I asked David if I could write about our conversation, and he said please do.

Outrageous. Like the one where he blew his nose on the makeup lady's shirt on Letterman. What a total scumbag. Good, and this went out on MSNBC. "Yep, I'm f'ing all y'all, and ain't shit you can do about it, bee-otch!"

It's time the progressive community stopped responding to what the neocons do and instead fought fire with fire.

According to MSNBC, 39 heavily Democratic Florida counties inexplicably voted for Bush... and those counties all had optical scan voting machines. In other counties which did not use these machines, the votes matched up with the registrations.

Florida Inspector General Raymond Lemme, looking into charges that programmer/whistleblower Clint Curtis was hired by Florida congressman Tom Feeney to write vote-stealing software, DIED under mysterious circumstances just days before he was to issue a scathing report that he said went "all the way to the top." The investigation was subsequently and mysteriously closed. Meanwhile Curtis passed a lie detector test administered by Florida's retired polygraph dept. head... while Feeney has been caught in lie after lie. (www.bradblog.com.)

There is SO MUCH MORE to this... and no one is investigating due to neocon threats and intimidation. It's time to END this charade! This is the ONE AND ONLY CAUSE MOVING IDEAS should be behind, because exposing the truth about Election '04 will bring down the fundamentally corrupt Bush administration. There are many progressive organizations such as Velvet Revolution and blackboxvoting.org who would be happy to speak with you. The masses KNOW the truth and are clamoring for this.

The simple fact is, if we *don't* expose the stolen elections and rigged voting machines, we haven't a prayer in '06 or '08. The neocons are using HAVA as an excuse to roll out unverifiable, hackable voting machines throughout the country, thereby ensuring their reign continues regardless of the public. I urge Moving Ideas to take this issue seriously. This is not a conspiracy theory--this is the real deal here, folks.

After reflecting more on George W. Bush’s right-potty-hand, some other things have occurred to me.

1. This is the same right hand he has used to signify solemnity when twice taking the oath of office of the Presidency of the United States.
2. This is probably the same hand he uses with utensils to place food inside of his mouth. I sincerely doubt any ambidextrous skill on his part given his proclivity to fall off of bicycles.
3. Certainly, he places this hand in those of others’ that he greets in the socially accepted manner referred to as shaking hands.
4. Please add to my list, as I am sickened by my next unspeakable thought.

2. Neither the AFA nor any other "ultra-right wingers" view President Bush as "sitting at the right hand of Jesus."

If this is the best mud you guys have to throw (and it looks like it is, considering that the Plame non-scandal is headed swiftly down the crapper), neither President Bush nor the entire Republican Party has anything to worry about for the nest 3.25 years... and the 4 years after that... and the 4 years after that... etc.

If CNN would just show this video clip of idiot Bush and and one of creepo Cheney telling a Senator to "F...Off" on TV three times every night for the next six months, Americans watching TV would finally give in to the desperate urge to remove these two clowns from office.

Michael Moore recently said (I think it was him) where, oh where, will the Repugs find such a stupid and rabid prez. candidate as Bush for '08? They are scraping the barrel now!

Looking again...nope, that's not his thumb - unless he's had his digits poorly reattached after some freak farm accident or something? After all, he's not really handy on the farm - Laura said he tried to milk a bull once...

When the Monica fiasco hit the fan, the great majority of Clinton's supporters included criticism of his behavior in their comments; things like ''how could he be so stupid".."'what he did was reprehensible"..."his behavior was unconscionable"...etc.
They still supported the man & his policies but were able to separate his bad behavior from the rest of the man (guess it's that pesky 'nuance' that some people have such trouble with).

Yet many bush supporters seem incapable of speaking out against his or his crew's crass and/or idiotic behavior, such as his flipping the bird to the press, or the fact that his vice-president told a senator to "go f*ck yourself". Somehow, none of it seems to create a ripple in the placid lake of their "morality". It seems de rigueur that loyalty to king george must be all or nothing.

I still maintain, though, that there are many, many good conservatives out there who ARE offended by bush & co.'s policies & behavior.
I also maintain that the number of true-blue (so to speak), all-or-nothing bush loyalists is GREATLY inflated by the right.
Just as the number of people who actually voted for him is greatly inflated.

#5 Jim,
I'm not familiar with the advisorygroup@movingideas.org, but I will check it out. Excellent letter!
If it's a legitimate group, 6 or 7 of us sending letters sounds like a good idea to me.

#15 - That's depressing. Hillary and the DLC are gearing up to preempt any progressive stands. The Progressive Democrats better come up with some kind of "nuclear option" pretty soon to put the fear in them.

#15
I dunno, Jim, all due respect to you, how exactly will Hillary "not allow" it to happen? Is she gonna fix the voting machines? Deal with the fact that our electoral process is now a meaningless sham?
She's not making any noises in that direction that I've heard of. She's concerning herself with the burning issue of violence in video games.
Do you remember what she said on January 6th? Something along the lines of "this is not about over-turning the election; GWB is our president", as EVERY democratic senator did who bothered to speak in supposed support of Barbara Boxer, INCLUDING BOXER HERSELF.
They seem to care about their jobs more than they care about ANY of these issues.
John Conyers and the handful of Congresspeople following his lead seem to be the only ones in Congress who are concerned enough to do anything.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I could use the good news.
#17 Kestrel,
I think what laura said, in essence, was that he whacked off a horse, hahaha! God, it was priceless! I nearly fell off my chair laughing. More restoring of dignity to the WH!

Oh thanks, Jim! If they're behind it it's probably good.
I just re-subscribed to The American Prospect because I let it expire & I miss it.
Forgive me if my last post sounded snotty or something. I didn't mean it that way.

Joan, 100% in agreement, the stuff coming out of the Hillary camp is wretched and will get worse. The idea is to obviously "go moderate" and disenfranchise the left, much like Bill did when he dissed Sistah Souljah, a brutal and scummy and canny political move which established him as a "moderate"--which actually he was. They know that the left will vote for her anyway, no matter what--so they're going after the mainstream Republicans who are sick of Bush. It's actually very, very shrewd. and possibly the only way to win in '08.

What I was implying is the behind-the-scenes. The Clintons are no dummies. They know what the Republicans are up to. So while they're playing politics, who knows what backroom deals they'll cut? The Clintons have loyalists, too.

So I'm seeing a massive under-the-radar power struggle going on that never makes the press in any way, all about the real power players. The Clintons know how to wield the axe and cut the deals--better than the Bushes do.

I've checked other blogs, and the notion that the photo has been cropped, and that Bush was really giving a "thumbs up," is widespread.

His middle finger seems too long to be a thumb. But don't sell Karl Rove short...it's entirely within his devious mind to rig a photograph like this, draw "liberals" into commenting about it, then proving it was all a fake. Don't know if that's the case, but don't ignore the possibility. He rigged two elections, didn't he?

Well, I don't know about you, Jim, but if it's jeb vs hillary in '08 I'm not voting. Putting aside the fact that it doesn't matter anyway WHO we vote for because it's fixed, hillary is a sell-out.
I MIGHT vote for Dean, just as a futile gesture; I'd most definitely vote for Conyers.
I can't think of anyone else who is not on my shit-list (it's kinda long)
Jon Stewart. That plant that Michael Moore had running at some point.
I'm gonna have a beer & write some more limericks!
A pox on both their houses!!!!!

That blogger relies on the last frame for it's analyses. At that point, the movement of Bush's hand is much too quick to determine anything. That "finger or thumb" may not even be the same "finger or thumb" in the previous frames.

Look at the pictures above. Given the proportions in these pics, there is no way that this could be his thumb.

In sum, the "thumb proponents" rely on the movement --- which is blurred and too quick for the frame-rate of the video. But the "finger proponents" rely on the size. Here I would give more weight to the SIZE evidence.

The word on Hillary is that she is cool with Rupert Murdoch, which scares the hell out of me.

And I am sick of these crummy choices we get in elections anyways. Nobody liked Kerry in the primaries except for the idiots on TV. We would have done better with Rev. Sharpton... and even if he got whooped by Bush in actual votes, we would be in a stronger position than we are now. The debates would have been awesome. Rev. Sharpton would have defended himself from personal attack.

They probably have to throw a win to a "Democrat" to "prove" that the voting machines work. Afterall, who will vote republican after Bush is through? And the corporations aren't going to sit back and let some kind of progressive populist roll back those sweet tax cuts.

#32 - The "progressive" view doesn't make it into the debates at all. It would be a much more exciting and hopeful country if David Cobb, for example, had been a full participant. All the buried issues that are really the most important of all - that the corporatists don't talk about - would have seen the light, and it would have been clear to millions (and a wonderful thing, I believe) that the "progressive" view is very American, not something exotic.

Anyway, don't forget Barbara Boxer as a possible presidential candidate. If the tides of politics are right (and there has been election reform) a reaction to the dishonesty and crime of the Busheviks could bring about the first woman president - a milestone of political and social maturity. (I can't support Hillary at all. I think she is a complete corporatist and would be a disastrous candidate and president, if elected.)

I totally agree. All other topics are useless, if electronic voting machines with no security run this country.

But, I don't think anything will be done (amazingly), because the MSM has a blackout on ELECTION FRAUD.

Frankly, I endorse the Democrats (or other party operatives besides Republicans) hacking into the machines to expose what a farce they are. Electronic voting machine fraud WILL NEVER BE ADDRESSED, so I endorse Democrat operatives to hack into them, too. That is just another angle of QUICKLY exposing the farce they are. Exposing them legitimately will never happen, because of the MSM blackout. But, 2-or-more can play the electronic voting machine hacking game. What would happen if other parties started hacking into the electronic voting machines? THE PROBLEM WOULD BE RECTIFIED!!! THAT'S WHAT WOULD HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!! AND QUICKLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because it would make our country and our voting system a worldwide embarrassment (which it is, but it's not being covered by the MSM).

...the whole world would stop and take notice if, right during the 2006 or 2008 election, operatives from other parties hacked into the machines, too, and make it obvious that the machines were being hacked into at an alarming rate. Then the media could no longer ignore it.

I hate to endorse that (vote machine hacking), also, but I think maybe it would be what we need; especially if the Greens would win, with, say, 95%. Wouldn't that be great? Someone would notice that there was fraud, and it would be too one-sided to claim serious election fraud, and therefore, defensable in court...
Now, do any of y'all know any progressive hackers? Do you have any way they can get into the machines?
Get busy y'all. 11/06 is comin' up fast...

We should accept McClellands word for it--after all he is the pRes's mouth and as we know quite truthful. McClelland was telling us that his boss is
"all thumbs". I can accept that. And it would make the extended digit, in full salute, his middle thumb.

To some of us "all thumbs" is a manner of speach but in this case Snottie knows best.

KOS is arguing that it's a thumb? Unless the photos have been altered or Bush has a freak hand, that can't possibly be anything but a bird, as far as I can see. One would have to break bones to get a thumb into that position, relative to the arm position, as one walked away.

Geez, no wonder we can't get folks like Kos to take Stolen Election seriously. He can't see the bird on Bush's hand, much less the one in the Bush election.

And it IS important because no one who believes in Democracy can possibly believe that a President should be birding the media, ever, or anyone for that matter, but certainly not the media, who are the only hope for an informed electorate.

It reminds me of the time in the second debate where Bush shouted down the moderator. It reminds me of the time when he joked about how much easier it would be if he were dictator. There is a pattern emerging, a pattern that seems to become clearer when Bush is under pressure.

It IS important. It isn't just a matter of Bush having a folksy style. It's a reflection of an attitude that is inacceptable in the leader of a Democratic nation, an attitude that may go a long way towards explaining why policy seems to be made with blinkers in the Bush administration.

Joan, I hope you are right that there are many Republicans out there who are as appalled as many Dems are. But what I see is a stark dichotomy between Dems and Pubs, in which Dems are willing to criticize their leaders and do so often, while Pubs refuse to do so, even when not to do so is almost unthinkable.

Look at the way Dems reacted to Dean's comments a while back about Republicans. Dean was severely criticized for them. Compare the way Republicans rallied around Rove's vicious comment about Durbin (?) and about what looks to be his obvious involvement in treason against Plame. Wagons circled all the way.

I hope the dichotomy I see is not representative of the way most Republicans feel.

Re. Hillary: I'm willing to bet that she voted for Cafta, just as her husband shepherded Nafta. If that's true, I would probably sooner vote Republican than vote for her.

Free trade is great, as long as it is balanced with labor concerns and environmental concerns and protections against economic upheavals. That should be a no brainer, but it's not even on the table.

My personal view would be that any Dem who can't understand the importance of balance in free trade is no Dem at all.

I'm in total agreement with Phil #46. There's no way an opposable thumb can get into the position in relation to the rest of the hand that we see in this video. But, it's possible, I guess, that bu$h doesn't really have an opposable thumb. That could explain a lot.

On the finger, Kira, I don't see how you get your thumb there without breaking a bone. Kezaro, you said it yourself. One would have to be able to rotate the thumb from and back to a "natural" position. Unless Bush has a way of doing this without breaking bones, I think that pretty much has to be a bird.

In fact, I think it's totally obviously a bird, unless the pictures have been altered.

Some say "why are we arguing about this!" Well, that's my question too. It's obviously a bird, unless the photos have been retouched or altered, and it's very telling.

I'm not much of a writer but I love reading this blog and I often join the "6 or 7" in the pursuit of fair and open elections via emails, faxes and phone calls.

What would it take to have a parallel election?Could the process be tested in Ohio in the Hackett race? I'm thinking you've probably discussed the idea of parallel elections before I started reading The Brad Blog and I would love to hear from the "experts".

As far as hacking goes..I have often wondered why the Dems don't encourage the public to think about election fraud in terms of the elections being hacked from outside the U.S. by our so called enemies.You know.. like Bush wanted to do with the Iraqi "election".

Before putting this ahead of Plamegate, Coingate, etc., why not wait to see if this is the case? As bad as Bush is, I find it hard to believe he'd be stupid enough to flip off a camera. It smells to me like a Karl Rove trick, which he can blame on "liberals."

In a political world dominated by the likes of Rove, every possible lead is a possible trap.

But that doesn't mean that one doesn't follow up leads.

No one scandal is going to end the coup. But taken together, they form a pattern.

Birding the media is like birding the voters. Voters may love to see the media tormented, but they also realize, in my opinion, what Bush's disdain for the media really means.

It means that fundementally he does not view himself as having to answer to the people and that is also what is at play in his refusal to address Rove's now unquestionable involvment in outing a CIA agent.

We should thank him for making it so explicit. Hopefully he will continue to do that. It may be that the telltale heart is pounding in his ears. And if it is, he may tell the people himself what they need to know that he does not want them to know.

I think: (1) It's his middle finger, or his middle thumb if he has five thumbs. (2) Yes, hack into the machines and make them spit out nonsense before, or during the elections to make their tallies obviously totally unreliable garbage. (3) Yes, hold simultaneous paper ballot elections. After leaving "official" voting site, cross the street and vote again by paper ballot at a site operated by people or organizations who are more trustworthy to count the ballots as cast.

Stupid_George, it took #58 comments before you decided it was his thumb. I noticed the thumb when I first say the video.

Bradley made a remarkably ignorant non-credible statement -
> Has Bush ever said anything that didn't turn out to be a lie?

He promised to allow concealed handgun licenses in Texas when he was running for governor. As soon as he won, he did. We like him in Texas because he is a man of his word.

We live next to Arkansas and knew that Bill Clinton was not a man of his word - "I did not have sex with the woman Miss Lewinsky." I always thought he may not have been lying to the nation. I always thought he was saying "I did not have sex with that woman (Hillary), Miss Lewinsky."

Clinton gave up playing the saxophone. He decided to play the harmonica.

If it turns out the finger was really a thumb, and the photograph was rigged (we'll know soon), there are only two possibilities I can see:

1) A dopey liberal pulled a dopey stunt in an effort to embarrass Bush.

2) Karl Rove did it, in the hope it would be exposed as a dirty trick and could be blamed on a liberal.

If it's the first, it means somebody wasted his time embarrassing a man who constantly embarrasses himself. If the second, it shows how desperate the White House is to take the heat off other scandals. Let's make sure we concentrate on the scandals.

This is the ONLY image that convinced me that it was his thumb. The others were simply too ambiguous to tell for certain. In fact, post #26 could clearly be interpreted as a finger --- that's why I was convinced it was not a thumb.

I am a man of honor and I admit when I make a mistake. Do you?

RLM:

Bush's gesture was clearly consistent with him "giving the finger". The resolution of the video and images up until that pic I posted above were also ambiguous
enough to lend support to this hypothesis.

I don't think this took the heat off the other scandals. It was fun analyzing the video to get to a small truth that could have had the potential to be very embarrasing to this war criminal.

You are right. I saw the video frame by frame and as much as we know he is an obnoxious frat boy, it is his thumb. It looked like his middle finger at first to me. Don't get me wrong it does look like it when seen casually, but his hand goes down in the late frames of the video you can see it more difinitively. I never understood how people could be so sure with such a blurry low res picture. Plus, he is in the distance. What's right is right, and I think the more people try to convince themselves otherwise, the more silly they look. Especially when they risk being wrong after such debate. Sorry people...

Thank you for the photos you posted above. I've included them in my original comments here.

All,

Keep in mind "how certain" you have been [whatever you conclusion is]. This is important to remember --- reasonable people can come to a different conclusion. If we dismiss people simpley because they have a "conclusion that doesn't match what we expect," then we lose out.

In that spirit, I have thought alot about these images and wanted to share with you my thoughts on how the "I'm very certain what reality is, but I am in error"-problem can be. Here's more.

The issue is not whether we can agree or disagree; but whether we can look at the issue from their point of view, no matter how unusual or different that perspective might be.

Joan, thank you for your comment. I'm glad I was able to share. We can arrive at reasonable conclusions in unexpected and surprising ways.

Last night on Olbermann, I heard John Dean say there were 6 sources from the W.H. Thought that news was pretty significant...but haven't seen anything on the web about it. That would mean conspiracy, to me. Also, my son googled Brewster Jennings...seems they were not friendly to Halliburton.

All kidding aside --- can someone tell me how his thumb gets so long in that video? I know it's possible for the eye to be fooled with certain failures of video in picking up depth, etc., but really --- that thumb (or lizard) really grows.

to Kira (#44): I don't believe the voting machicnes are on the internet, or any network reachable from the outside world. They can't be "hacked" unless you're inside. If inside, any voting method may be rigged. This hacking thing is pure paranoia.

Oh, not directly! They had a set of “one way firewalls” allowing data to come out of GEMS onto the county LAN where it was served up on web pages. But get this. They didn’t set up these firewalls themselves. Rather, they paid SAIC to do it for them. For those not following along in extreme detail, SAIC is a software development and computer consulting house that does almost exclusively government contracts; their ties to military contracting are very well known…I’ll let others discuss that connection.

But in any case, San Diego has in my opinion turned it’s entire election security over to TWO different “black box vendors” – Diebold and SAIC. A security failure (accidental or deliberate) by either could leave their election integrity under threat. [snip]
**MORE**

kira #71: "The GEMS box was connected to the Internet." There it is, in black and white. This system sounds like it's still in the developement stage, where some truly strange things can happen. I tentatively retract my statement about paranoia....on the other hand, even paranoids have enemies. Let's keep an open mind on the matter.

It's probably due to motion blur. If the frame-rate was higher and the video was larger, we would have seen a cleaner image for the other frames.

I got fooled because all of the other frames I looked at showed a long digit --- too large to be a thumb. No-one put forth the argument that this may have been artifacting. This last image was the only frame which clearly showed the outline (and proper proportions) of the thumb.

a thumb would not stick up so much in a picture, as the thumb naturally curves forward --- and when you give a "thumbs up" your forefinger is curled and angles slightly up --- making a poked up thumb even less noticable.

Try it yourself. This is one thing that all (most) of you should be able to independantly verify. TRY IT! To make his thumb poke up like that in a pic Bush would have to strain his to angle thumb as close to a 90degree angle as possible, but even then, it would not point up as it does in the pic - as the curled forefinger would make it appear "stubby" from a distance. TRY IT!

comeon people. how we going to take back our country if we can't even do this little bit of investigative research?

Another interesting question, why is the W.H. calling Avorias at Americablog. supposedly liberal website. I get censored all the time there. Latest on the uproar that Plame went to a concert and wrote retired under work. " Your homeland security dollars at work.Quakers and anti war protesters are investigated ...concert information sooo important to investigate." Just put it together..I'm censored because I write unseemly things about the whore house, I mean white house. Never saw a pattern before.

Again, I may end up with egg on my face, but as it stands, I can't believe that we are still arguing about this.

You have to look at the relationship of hand to arm to body. Not only does the picture not look like a thumb, but you would have to twist your hand and arm in impossible ways to get them into that position, if it were a thumb.

Bush is walking away from the camera in that film, correct? Well, if you are facing away from the camera, how do you get your hand turned around so that it is facing the camera, especially when you are also holding it out from the body? That alone is hard to do, very awkward to say the least, for most people I think.

Now, move your thumb from the outside of your hand to the inside of your hand. Without rearranging your bones.

The motion of the arm has nothing to do with it. No motion can get a thumb into that position while someone is walking away, unless the arm is able to be in that position, unless perhaps the someone is a contortionist with abilities beyond what I can readily imagine.

If that's a thumb, it's a superhuman thumb, I'd say.

Constant, are you referring to me? I very, very strongly reccomend to you that you check yourself. Here is the comment by you that you link us to in your first post on this thread

''Have you ever heard someone shout so loudly, you wondered whether they were losing their mind?

A couple of days ago, I hear some people yelling about whether Bush was holding up a thumb or not.

I think they missed something obvious

Sometimes the most important information isn't just the fact, but it is how people respond to the evidence; or how they respond despite having no evidence....''

How's that for dismissive? Why are you so dismissive towards those who disagree with you?

Hey, maybe it WAS his thumb, maybe it WASN'T - but whichever digit it was, Bush has pretty much been giving the rest of the world the finger since day one!

And for those who don't understand why we automatically think the worst in a situation like this, remember, he's done it before (see the OTHER video). He's also been known to call a reporter a "major league a**hole" when he didn't know the tape was running.

Don't know about y'all, but in MY little red area of the country, claiming to be a christian and then acting like that will get you dirty looks from all the mamas, a stern talking to from the preacher, and a whole lot of people praying for you.

Good one, Kes - who could argue with that line of logic (except a rw-nutjob immersed in Orwellian double-speak.)

I agree with Phil --- just look at the anatomy and its positioning. There's no way you could see the thumbnail of the "thumbs up" given the position of the rest of the hand. Sorry, Stop_George. If I'm wrong, egg is good for the complexion, LOL!

So glad you like him in TX because he let you keep your hidden guns...whewy! Well either you don't read a lot or you listen to Faux news only because as governor of TX he lied in court (before Clinton) using the same excuse "semantics" for the investigation into the fraud (that he helped orchestrate) about the Texas Funeral Commission. He also lied in TX about the sale of stock for a company (1 of 2) he ran under (just like he mismanaged the USA) when he sold stock knowing it was crashing. He also willingly lied to TX about his service in the guard which 'was never proven true' to date....yes the letters were frauds, but in lieu of that evidence that he served has not been shown, not even a fellow serving witness...imagine no one remembering serving with the President.

I see your still upset that Clinton lied in an investigation that was based on a proven liar Miss Paula if I do this for the GO will you buy me a new nose Jones, to the people (or even his wife) about his affair (never consummated with intercourse...thus semantically he unlike bush told the truth….he never had ‘sex meaning intercourse’ with her.)

So you all believe “he is a man of his word”…what about his lies to congress about WMDs, his frauds in voting that he refuses to fix…meaning only one thing, if you know of fraud and refuse to fix it it’s because you used it, or will use it for yourself or friends.

Clinton gave up playing the saxophone, you say he decided to play the harmonica, but Bush has been playing the harm-America and your OK with that, shame on you and your delusional tunnel vision!

Bob #70 go to blackboxvoting.org the hacking thing is not BS and they proved it in front of voting officials that continue to ignore facts.

Just like other states on the GOP/Diebold payroll are still buying machines that CA proved have more than 10% in errors without rigging, imagine with rigging and still they don't feel auditable paper trails are needed....just proves they are fraudulent minded!

To hack into the voting systems, one does have to have access numbers and codes and you all know how easily accessable that crap is, a janitor in the elections office could locate all necessary data to accomplish such an easy job.

I just can't understand all the suprise here at the way the pres is doing . It's nothing new . Hell every president ever elected said one thing and did another while at the same time screwing the nation . Democrats & Republicans , no difference . All crooks .