National Center for Women & Information Technologyhttps://www.ncwit.org/podcasts/xml/121
enInterview with Kate Matsudairahttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-kate-matsudaira
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-24162"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/kate.matsudaira-founder.popforms_01-05-2015.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. The CEO and co‑founder of NCWIT. The National Center for Women and Information Technology. With me is Larry Nelson, W3W3. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;Hi. I'm happy to be here, of course. This is a wonderful series. Everything will be posted on w3w3.com, and on our blog and our podcast directly in addition to the ncwit.org site.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yeah. It's exciting today. We're interviewing somebody who has been a leader in the tech sector for a many successful efforts, including start ups that required by companies we've all heard off like eBay. While you've heard of them, Kate Matsudaira is the founder now of Popforms, which is a pretty cool company for all you go‑getters out there, self starters who are really eager to use some neat tools around empowering your own leadership around growing successful teams, engaging people, etc.
We'll hear more about Popforms in just a moment. Kate is a very interesting and accomplished person, an author, a speaker. One of my favorite things she does is she sits on the board of ACMQ. Now, this is a test. I don't how many people know what ACM stands for.
ACMQ is an editorial board for the association for computing machinery, which is a very old and very large professional society for us computing people. I one time had the honor of speaking to the ACMQ Board about voice over IP.
Larry: &nbsp;All right.
Lucy: &nbsp;It was a long time ago. Kate's very technical, CTO, lots and lots of technology skills like cloud computing and distributing systems and everything else. We're just really thrilled to have you here Kate, welcome.
Kate Matsudaira: &nbsp;Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be on the show.
Lucy: &nbsp;We have a lot of different kinds of questions to ask you about entrepreneurship, but let's just start first with technology in general. You're a very technical person. How did you first get into technology? Maybe you could share just a bit with listeners about the things you see that are particularly interesting and are emerging, in terms of technology.
Kate: &nbsp;Well, I first got into technology when I was a kid. I always loved math and science and figuring things out and I remember having a microscope as a child. There was a pond where we lived and I would go get pond water and put it under there and there was all these things crawling in it and I thought it was the craziest thing that you could see all these weird things swimming in the water. I always remember that was one of my earliest experiences with science.
Then, just the passion for science and technology. I ended up studying computer science in college, largely because it was my favorite set of classes. I just felt like it came really natural to me. When I did my computer science, it never felt like work. It was like the stuff I would save for last because I like doing it so much. It's kind of a natural thing for me to study.
In terms of cool technology trends, well I'm really into wearable computing. I was complaining the other day that my computer...I have a MacBook with a solid state drive, and I was running out of space. I'm like, "I got to get a newer computer because I need to store everything. I remember when my hard drives weren't even a gigabyte.
It's just amazing to see how fast technology has grown and how it has empowered so many cool things. I love the wearable tech and just all the things that you're going to able to do when computer gets smaller and faster, and there's more memory and more power processing and things like that. The applications are just mind blogging, so it's really my thing. Oh, and 3D printing and laser cutting are other really cool technology application.
I'm really into physical goods. How technology bridges that gap I think is fascinating. It's going to be really interesting to watch over the next few years.
Lucy: &nbsp;Well, just sort of a follow up to that. We just got a 3D printer here at NCWIT. We're very excited for MakerBot, great company. We've interviewed MakerBot before Jenny Lauten. Somebody told me, I haven't verified it, that you can now go get 3D printed dress online.
Larry: &nbsp;Whoa.
Lucy: &nbsp;I believe it when I see it. That's classic, right?
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah. [laughs]
Lucy: &nbsp;I don't know what's that like. Anyway, we really love wearables also. Wearable computing is such a great way to teach kids about computing.
Larry: &nbsp;Before we get into all the different thoughts and questions that we have that you're going to help our audience with, could you give us the latest in Pop Forms?
Kate: &nbsp;Yes. What we do at Pop Forms, we like to say we help super stars shine at work. What we're essentially trying to do is bridge the gap that exists...Right now, if you're an executive or a really senior leader and you want to better at your job, there's all kinds of things you should do. You can spend thousands of dollars going to leadership training, seminars, conferences or hiring a coach.
If you're just a high potential employee and you really want to advance in your career and you have a smaller budget, what exists for you today? We're really focused on online education around helping people be better leaders, be more productive and just kind of shine and do amazing on their job.
Lucy: &nbsp;Give one example, perhaps, of a kind of things that people can do at your site. Can people come to your site and learn?
Kate: &nbsp;We have a lot of different courses on topics around getting things done, around improving your communication skills, on being a better public speaker or pitching and to speak at a conference. All those kind of soft skills are what we focus on.
We have a lot of, what we call, our leadership sparks that are focused on weekly lessons that take less than 5 to 10 minutes to do, to help you build those skills over time. Instead of one course that's hours, and hours that you might not complete, we try to partition it out in small actionable pieces.
Larry: &nbsp;You've really answered this next question that I have in my mind, but let me just see if I can rephrase it. Now, just why is it you are an entrepreneur, and then what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Kate: &nbsp;Let's see. I am an entrepreneur because when I first started my career, I thought I wanted to work the corporate ladder, and I was promoted a lot by companies like Microsoft and Amazon. I started off as an engineer, became a manger, and then a senior manager and so forth.
I realized, as I was climbing the ladder, that what I really wanted to do was not just be in charge of the technical team. I really wanted to be involved with strategy, and I wanted to learn the business. The only way I saw that could really happen was to join a small company, and that really started my passion for start‑ups.
I've been on the team of three successful start‑ups as you mentioned in my interaction, and now I do own start‑ups. I just love, when you get the ability to work with customers, to build products, to make the money. All of those things are very fun, and it really caters to my desire to learn all these new things, and constantly be pushing myself and challenging myself in a new way.
Lucy: &nbsp;It's the variety of tasks that entrepreneurs...
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah.
Lucy: &nbsp;Have to do that...
Kate: &nbsp;Challenges too.
Lucy: &nbsp;And challenges. Yeah, exactly. On your entrepreneurial path, who influenced you along the way ‑‑ mentors, or others potentially? What kinds of help did you get along the way?
Kate: &nbsp;I've had a lot of help, including from people who didn't necessarily even know they were my mentors. There's a ton of resources on mind. There's philosophies you can follow, but I also have some people who I'm very close to that I've learned from. Binders to my company are, one of them is named Dan Shapiro. He's had several successful companies.
He's the one I've looked towards. Another one is Ethan Shot. His metrics is also in several successful companies. They're people that I follow, and use as my own personal advisory board, but there's also a ton of other people.
Just looking at Sheryl Stenberg, and looking at the people who are even just executives in the bigger companies that have had a lot of success, and being them, and being able to emulate the things that you like, the things that you don't like. Even from afar, you can learn their philosophies, and the way they do things. You always take the best of what you see, and integrate it into your life.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes. Wow. I have to ask this, Kate. You have done so many different neat things. You've helped companies grow, you've grown your own company. What is one of the toughest things that you've had to do in your career?
Kate: &nbsp;I think it's letting people go. It's the hardest thing.
Lucy: &nbsp;We hear that a lot. Yeah.
Kate: &nbsp;I think any time you have to let someone go from a company, or a roll, whether it's to take care of your underwear like a layoff, it's really hard. Because the hardest problems, they're always people problems. They're not business problems, or technology problems. In many ways, I feel like those are figureoutable, but the people problems are always the most difficult and challenging, I think.
Lucy: &nbsp;We do hear that. We do hear that a lot. That is one of the hardest things.
Larry: &nbsp;I think it's greatly in part, because leaders really care about people, and that's why it affects you that way.
Kate: &nbsp;I think you have to care about people to be a good leader.
Lucy: &nbsp;Absolutely. People follow leaders, and I think they care about them. I think it is a very difficult thing no matter the circumstance to let a person go. Switching tracks just slightly in terms of advice to young people, what kinds advice would you give to young people about following an entrepreneurial path?
Kate: &nbsp;I would say that the best thing you can do is focus on building your own career capital, and really try to do the hard work. I think that building what I call career capital, which is like knowledge, and know‑how, it's a network, it's a track record of success, and projects, whether you're at a different company, or you're in school.
Building that capital on my own to accomplishments, and all of that will palate into whatever success you have. Whether you follow up as an entrepreneur, or you decide to stay and become an executive in a big company. Consistently working on building yourself, and increasing that capital is the most important thing. I wish someone had talked to me so much about that, because I think you optimize, otherwise, for the wrong variables.
Sometimes you're like, "Oh, I need to know finances," or, "I need to know sales," but I don't think you need that. I think you just need to be the very best at what you do, and when you do that, it's actually easy to build a company around that. It's easy to bring that into a company. I think that focusing on being exceptional is the number one thing that would help people.
Larry: &nbsp;Very good. I like that advice.
Lucy: &nbsp;I do too.
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah.
Lucy: &nbsp;I don't think we've heard that yet in all of these interviews.
Larry: &nbsp;That's right.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yeah.
Larry: &nbsp;Now, what personal characteristics? Now, having a look at yourself for a minute, a little introspection here, that has given you the advantages of being an entrepreneur.
Kate: &nbsp;I think that I work incredibly hard.
[laughter]
Kate: &nbsp;I always talk about, that what I make up for in to like intelligence, or experience. I make up for and just share. To me, it's just hard work. I'm not afraid to work nights, I'm not afraid to work weekends, I'm not afraid to get a 100 percent. I think that that has definitely made a difference because I don't give up, and I am willing to do what it takes to make things happen.
Lucy: &nbsp;Relentless, tenacious.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes.
Lucy: &nbsp;You work really hard, and that's what it takes. Focus on being exceptional, right?
Larry: &nbsp;Yep.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's all hard work, but we also have personalized. How do you, in some sense, balance the two, although we don't like the word balance particularly, but we can't think of a better way to ask the question. How do you bring balance into your life?
Kate: &nbsp;Well, I just had a baby in May, so I'm a new mom.
Lucy: &nbsp;Congratulations. Yay.
Kate: &nbsp;The question is actually really close to my heart, because I really feel, I know this is so clichÈ, but having a baby, and becoming a parent changes your perspective on what's important, and time, and the lack of sleep, and the fact that you want to spend a lot of time with your baby. Like makes you prioritize.
It forces that function of balance, whether you wanted to or not. You can call it balance, you can call it managing, or you can call it living. It's all part of it. How do I do it? I think there are kind of like really to see things that I do that I think make a big difference to my ability to keep everything in a way that makes sense.
The first one is that I don't plan my personalized, my profession life separately. I treat it all as one life, so I use one calendar, I use one giant to‑do list, and I think that's the difference than a lot of people who'll be like, "Here's my personal work, and here's this."
Part of it, I think, is because I'm an entrepreneur. I will work on the weekend if it means I get more time with my family during the week. I don't say, "OK, starting today, it's just family time." I say, "OK, I work fast after my child goes to sleep, so I'm going to work seven days a week in the evenings when he goes to sleep, so that I can spend dinner time and breakfast times with my husband, and my child."
I think building through how you manage your time in a more holistic way, then like this is work, and this is weekend, for example. My other tip around this would be planning. I am ruthless about how I spend my time, and what I do, and what I don't do.
The reason I'm able to do that is I plan my day every day before I start doing anything. I set out a goal of like, "Here's what I want to get done, here's what's important. I do this at a weekly level too."
My co‑founder said like one of the smartest things I ever thought, which is that the secret of time management is knowing what to do with an hour. When you have 15 minutes, or you have a set hour, do you know what you can do? That is actually going to be the most important thing you can do. If you don't, then that means you're not planning you time well enough.
Lucy: &nbsp;I think that sounds like a Popforms lesson.
[laughter]
Larry: &nbsp;Yes, exactly.
Lucy: &nbsp;Absolutely, and this whole idea about treating things as one holistic life is spot on.
Larry: &nbsp;You and I both with kids. We understand that.
Lucy: &nbsp;Would be totally right. We're simply not nodding like, "Yep, yep."
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs] Absolutely.
Kate: &nbsp;Well, you have to, right? It's better to work some on the weekends, and to be able to have that time every day with your children. I think, anyway.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yeah. I did that with my two sons. Exactly that same approach. Plus, I found that if you send busy people, not that I'm advocating this, but sure works for me. If you send busy people email on a Sunday afternoon, you actually get it answered.
[laughter]
Larry: &nbsp;With busy people.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yeah, because they're always checking anyway.
Larry: &nbsp;Oh boy. Kate, you've already accomplished a great deal in so many different ways. By the way, your listeners out there will have, on all of our sites, and podcasts and everything. The website address for Kate's business, and you'll learn a lot there. What I'd like to do is to ask you, what's next for you?
Kate: &nbsp;What is next? This year, I've been setting my goals already, I'm really focused on continuing to grow Popforms to make it even more successful. I have a baby, I'm really excited about watching him grow. That's a big part of my life right now, but yeah, just making Popforms bigger and better. We're launching some software products in 2015, so I'm really excited about that, and yeah, it's going to be a great year.
Larry: &nbsp;That is super.
Lucy: &nbsp;Well, wow.
Larry: &nbsp;I'm really proud of you.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yeah, really, and this is really interesting, and especially a lot of the things that Popforms does in terms of careers. Larry has done some work in that space himself.
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah, a little bit.
Lucy: &nbsp;A little bit, yeah. Well, thank you so much Kate. It was great spending time with you, and we really appreciate all the tips.
Larry: &nbsp;You bet, and you listeners out there, you can tune in to 3333.com, and listen to this any time. Also on our podcast, and our blog, but also, and most important, is ncwit.org. You'll see the site, and you'll have links to everything that she said.
Lucy: &nbsp;Thanks Kate.
Kate: &nbsp;Thank you.
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/kate-matsudaira">Kate Matsudaira</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Kate Matsudaira is the founder of Popforms, which creates tools that are designed to help today’s technical leaders shine in their roles. Their tools empower leaders with the knowledge they need to keep growing their skills, plus strategic tools to help them engage and grow amazing teams. "<span style="line-height: 1.538em;">I think that building what I call career capital, which is like knowledge, and know‑how, it's a network, it's a track record of success, and projects, whether you're at a different company, or you're in school," said Kate about building a successful career. "</span><span style="line-height: 1.538em;">Building that capital on my own to accomplishments, and all of that will palate into whatever success you have. Whether you follow up as an entrepreneur, or you decide to stay and become an executive in a big company. Consistently working on building yourself, and increasing that capital is the most important thing. I wish someone had talked to me so much about that, because I think you optimize, otherwise, for the wrong variables."</span></p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2015-03-22T00:00:00-06:00">March 22, 2015</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">17:53</div></div></div>Sun, 22 Mar 2015 13:54:08 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-kate-matsudaira#comments17:53Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. The CEO and co‑founder of NCWIT. The National Center for Women and Information Technology. With me is Larry Nelson, W3W3. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: ...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. The CEO and co‑founder of NCWIT. The National Center for Women and Information Technology. With me is Larry Nelson, W3W3. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: & Hi. I'm happy to be here, of course. This is a wonderful series. Everything will be posted on w3w3.com, and on our blog and our podcast directly in addition to the ncwit.org site.
Lucy: & Yeah. It's exciting today. We're interviewing somebody who has been a leader in the tech sector for a many successful efforts, including start ups that required by companies we've all heard off like eBay. While you've heard of them, Kate Matsudaira is the founder now of Popforms, which is a pretty cool company for all you go‑getters out there, self starters who are really eager to use some neat tools around empowering your own leadership around growing successful teams, engaging people, etc.
We'll hear more about Popforms in just a moment. Kate is a very interesting and accomplished person, an author, a speaker. One of my favorite things she does is she sits on the board of ACMQ. Now, this is a test. I don't how many people know what ACM stands for.
ACMQ is an editorial board for the association for computing machinery, which is a very old and very large professional society for us computing people. I one time had the honor of speaking to the ACMQ Board about voice over IP.
Larry: & All right.
Lucy: & It was a long time ago. Kate's very technical, CTO, lots and lots of technology skills like cloud computing and distributing systems and everything else. We're just really thrilled to have you here Kate, welcome.
Kate Matsudaira: & Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be on the show.
Lucy: & We have a lot of different kinds of questions to ask you about entrepreneurship, but let's just start first with technology in general. You're a very technical person. How did you first get into technology? Maybe you could share just a bit with listeners about the things you see that are particularly interesting and are emerging, in terms of technology.
Kate: & Well, I first got into technology when I was a kid. I always loved math and science and figuring things out and I remember having a microscope as a child. There was a pond where we lived and I would go get pond water and put it under there and there was all these things crawling in it and I thought it was the craziest thing that you could see all these weird things swimming in the water. I always remember that was one of my earliest experiences with science.
Then, just the passion for science and technology. I ended up studying computer science in college, largely because it was my favorite set of classes. I just felt like it came really natural to me. When I did my computer science, it never felt like work. It was like the stuff I would save for last because I like doing it so much. It's kind of a natural thing for me to study.
In terms of cool technology trends, well I'm really into wearable computing. I was complaining the other day that my computer...I have a MacBook with a solid state drive, and I was running out of space. I'm like, "I got to get a newer computer because I need to store everything. I remember when my hard drives weren't even a gigabyte.
It's just amazing to see how fast technology has grown and how it has empowered so many cool things. I love the wearable tech and just all the things that you're going to able to do when computer gets smaller and faster, and there's more memory and more power processing and things like that. The applications are just mind blogging, so it's really my thing. Oh, and 3D printing and laser cutting are other really cool technology application.
I'm really into physical goods. How technology bridges that gap I think is fascinating. It's going to be really interesting to watch over the next few years.
Lucy: & Well, just sort of a follow up to that. We just got a 3D printer here at NCWIT. We're very excited for MakerBot, great company. We've interviewed MakerBot before Jenny Lauten. Somebody told me, I haven't verified it, that you can now go get 3D printed dress online.
Larry: & Whoa.
Lucy: & I believe it when I see it. That's classic, right?
Larry: & Yeah. [laughs]
Lucy: & I don't know what's that like. Anyway, we really love wearables also. Wearable computing is such a great way to teach kids about computing.
Larry: & Before we get into all the different thoughts and questions that we have that you're going to help our audience with, could you give us the latest in Pop Forms?
Kate: & Yes. What we do at Pop Forms, we like to say we help super stars shine at work. What we're essentially trying to do is bridge the gap that exists...Right now, if you're an executive or a really senior leader and you want to better at your job, there's all kinds of things you should do. You can spend thousands of dollars going to leadership training, seminars, conferences or hiring a coach.
If you're just a high potential employee and you really want to advance in your career and you have a smaller budget, what exists for you today? We're really focused on online education around helping people be better leaders, be more productive and just kind of shine and do amazing on their job.
Lucy: & Give one example, perhaps, of a kind of things that people can do at your site. Can people come to your site and learn?
Kate: & We have a lot of different courses on topics around getting things done, around improving your communication skills, on being a better public speaker or pitching and to speak at a conference. All those kind of soft skills are what we focus on.
We have a lot of, what we call, our leadership sparks that are focused on weekly lessons that take less than 5 to 10 minutes to do, to help you build those skills over time. Instead of one course that's hours, and hours that you might not complete, we try to partition it out in small actionable pieces.
Larry: & You've really answered this next question that I have in my mind, but let me just see if I can rephrase it. Now, just why is it you are an entrepreneur, and then what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Kate: & Let's see. I am an entrepreneur because when I first started my career, I thought I wanted to work the corporate ladder, and I was promoted a lot by companies like Microsoft and Amazon. I started off as an engineer, became a manger, and then a senior manager and so forth.
I realized, as I was climbing the ladder, that what I really wanted to do was not just be in charge of the technical team. I really wanted to be involved with strategy, and I wanted to learn the business. The only way I saw that could really happen was to join a small company, and that really started my passion for start‑ups.
I've been on the team of three successful start‑ups as you mentioned in my interaction, and now I do own start‑ups. I just love, when you get the ability to work with customers, to build products, to make the money. All of those things are very fun, and it really caters to my desire to learn all these new things, and constantly be pushing myself and challenging myself in a new way.
Lucy: & It's the variety of tasks that entrepreneurs...
Larry: & Yeah.
Lucy: & Have to do that...
Kate: & Challenges too.
Lucy: & And challenges. Yeah, exactly. On your entrepreneurial path, who influenced you along the way ‑‑ mentors, or others potentially? What kinds of help did you get along the way?
Kate: & I've had a lot of help, including from people who didn't necessarily even know they were my mentors. There's a ton of resources on mind. There's philosophies you can follow, but I also have some people who I'm very close to that I've learned from. Binders to my company are, one of them is named Dan Shapiro. He's had several successful companies.
He's the one I've looked towards. Another one is Ethan Shot. His metrics is also in several successful companies. They're people that I follow, and use as my own personal advisory board, but there's also a ton of other people.
Just looking at Sheryl Stenberg, and looking at the people who are even just executives in the bigger companies that have had a lot of success, and being them, and being able to emulate the things that you like, the things that you don't like. Even from afar, you can learn their philosophies, and the way they do things. You always take the best of what you see, and integrate it into your life.
Larry: & Yes. Wow. I have to ask this, Kate. You have done so many different neat things. You've helped companies grow, you've grown your own company. What is one of the toughest things that you've had to do in your career?
Kate: & I think it's letting people go. It's the hardest thing.
Lucy: & We hear that a lot. Yeah.
Kate: & I think any time you have to let someone go from a company, or a roll, whether it's to take care of your underwear like a layoff, it's really hard. Because the hardest problems, they're always people problems. They're not business problems, or technology problems. In many ways, I feel like those are figureoutable, but the people problems are always the most difficult and challenging, I think.
Lucy: & We do hear that. We do hear that a lot. That is one of the hardest things.
Larry: & I think it's greatly in part, because leaders really care about people, and that's why it affects you that way.
Kate: & I think you have to care about people to be a good leader.
Lucy: & Absolutely. People follow leaders, and I think they care about them. I think it is a very difficult thing no matter the circumstance to let a person go. Switching tracks just slightly in terms of advice to young people, what kinds advice would you give to young people about following an entrepreneurial path?
Kate: & I would say that the best thing you can do is focus on building your own career capital, and really try to do the hard work. I think that building what I call career capital, which is like knowledge, and know‑how, it's a network, it's a track record of success, and projects, whether you're at a different company, or you're in school.
Building that capital on my own to accomplishments, and all of that will palate into whatever success you have. Whether you follow up as an entrepreneur, or you decide to stay and become an executive in a big company. Consistently working on building yourself, and increasing that capital is the most important thing. I wish someone had talked to me so much about that, because I think you optimize, otherwise, for the wrong variables.
Sometimes you're like, "Oh, I need to know finances," or, "I need to know sales," but I don't think you need that. I think you just need to be the very best at what you do, and when you do that, it's actually easy to build a company around that. It's easy to bring that into a company. I think that focusing on being exceptional is the number one thing that would help people.
Larry: & Very good. I like that advice.
Lucy: & I do too.
Larry: & Yeah.
Lucy: & I don't think we've heard that yet in all of these interviews.
Larry: & That's right.
Lucy: & Yeah.
Larry: & Now, what personal characteristics? Now, having a look at yourself for a minute, a little introspection here, that has given you the advantages of being an entrepreneur.
Kate: & I think that I work incredibly hard.
[laughter]
Kate: & I always talk about, that what I make up for in to like intelligence, or experience. I make up for and just share. To me, it's just hard work. I'm not afraid to work nights, I'm not afraid to work weekends, I'm not afraid to get a 100 percent. I think that that has definitely made a difference because I don't give up, and I am willing to do what it takes to make things happen.
Lucy: & Relentless, tenacious.
Larry: & Yes.
Lucy: & You work really hard, and that's what it takes. Focus on being exceptional, right?
Larry: & Yep.
Lucy: & That's all hard work, but we also have personalized. How do you, in some sense, balance the two, although we don't like the word balance particularly, but we can't think of a better way to ask the question. How do you bring balance into your life?
Kate: & Well, I just had a baby in May, so I'm a new mom.
Lucy: & Congratulations. Yay.
Kate: & The question is actually really close to my heart, because I really feel, I know this is so clichÈ, but having a baby, and becoming a parent changes your perspective on what's important, and time, and the lack of sleep, and the fact that you want to spend a lot of time with your baby. Like makes you prioritize.
It forces that function of balance, whether you wanted to or not. You can call it balance, you can call it managing, or you can call it living. It's all part of it. How do I do it? I think there are kind of like really to see things that I do that I think make a big difference to my ability to keep everything in a way that makes sense.
The first one is that I don't plan my personalized, my profession life separately. I treat it all as one life, so I use one calendar, I use one giant to‑do list, and I think that's the difference than a lot of people who'll be like, "Here's my personal work, and here's this."
Part of it, I think, is because I'm an entrepreneur. I will work on the weekend if it means I get more time with my family during the week. I don't say, "OK, starting today, it's just family time." I say, "OK, I work fast after my child goes to sleep, so I'm going to work seven days a week in the evenings when he goes to sleep, so that I can spend dinner time and breakfast times with my husband, and my child."
I think building through how you manage your time in a more holistic way, then like this is work, and this is weekend, for example. My other tip around this would be planning. I am ruthless about how I spend my time, and what I do, and what I don't do.
The reason I'm able to do that is I plan my day every day before I start doing anything. I set out a goal of like, "Here's what I want to get done, here's what's important. I do this at a weekly level too."
My co‑founder said like one of the smartest things I ever thought, which is that the secret of time management is knowing what to do with an hour. When you have 15 minutes, or you have a set hour, do you know what you can do? That is actually going to be the most important thing you can do. If you don't, then that means you're not planning you time well enough.
Lucy: & I think that sounds like a Popforms lesson.
[laughter]
Larry: & Yes, exactly.
Lucy: & Absolutely, and this whole idea about treating things as one holistic life is spot on.
Larry: & You and I both with kids. We understand that.
Lucy: & Would be totally right. We're simply not nodding like, "Yep, yep."
Larry: & [laughs] Absolutely.
Kate: & Well, you have to, right? It's better to work some on the weekends, and to be able to have that time every day with your children. I think, anyway.
Lucy: & Yeah. I did that with my two sons. Exactly that same approach. Plus, I found that if you send busy people, not that I'm advocating this, but sure works for me. If you send busy people email on a Sunday afternoon, you actually get it answered.
[laughter]
Larry: & With busy people.
Lucy: & Yeah, because they're always checking anyway.
Larry: & Oh boy. Kate, you've already accomplished a great deal in so many different ways. By the way, your listeners out there will have, on all of our sites, and podcasts and everything. The website address for Kate's business, and you'll learn a lot there. What I'd like to do is to ask you, what's next for you?
Kate: & What is next? This year, I've been setting my goals already, I'm really focused on continuing to grow Popforms to make it even more successful. I have a baby, I'm really excited about watching him grow. That's a big part of my life right now, but yeah, just making Popforms bigger and better. We're launching some software products in 2015, so I'm really excited about that, and yeah, it's going to be a great year.
Larry: & That is super.
Lucy: & Well, wow.
Larry: & I'm really proud of you.
Lucy: & Yeah, really, and this is really interesting, and especially a lot of the things that Popforms does in terms of careers. Larry has done some work in that space himself.
Larry: & Yeah, a little bit.
Lucy: & A little bit, yeah. Well, thank you so much Kate. It was great spending time with you, and we really appreciate all the tips.
Larry: & You bet, and you listeners out there, you can tune in to 3333.com, and listen to this any time. Also on our podcast, and our blog, but also, and most important, is ncwit.org. You'll see the site, and you'll have links to everything that she said.
Lucy: & Thanks Kate.
Kate: & Thank you.
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Kate MatsudairaInterview Summary:& Kate Matsudaira is the founder of Popforms, which creates tools that are designed to help today’s technical leaders shine in their roles. Their tools empower leaders with the knowledge they need to keep growing their skills, plus strategic tools to help them engage and grow amazing teams. "I think that building what I call career capital, which is like knowledge, and know‑how, it's a network, it's a track record of success, and projects, whether you're at a different company, or you're in school," said Kate about building a successful career. "Building that capital on my own to accomplishments, and all of that will palate into whatever success you have. Whether you follow up as an entrepreneur, or you decide to stay and become an executive in a big company. Consistently working on building yourself, and increasing that capital is the most important thing. I wish someone had talked to me so much about that, because I think you optimize, otherwise, for the wrong variables."
Release Date:& March 22, 2015Interviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 17:53https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/kate.matsudaira-founder.popforms_01-05-2015.mp3Interview With Christina Wallacehttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-christina-wallace
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-24159"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/christina.wallace-bridgeup.stem_01-19-2015.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO, co‑founder of NCWIT. The National Center for Women and Information Technology. We have another one of our really fabulous interviews today with women who have been very successful in the entrepreneurial space. Today we're interviewing a woman who has experience across for profit and the non‑profit entrepreneurial sectors.
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;Good.
Lucy: &nbsp;Good. With me is Larry Nelson, w3w3.com. Hi Larry.
Larry: &nbsp;Hi, I'm really happy to be here. I really loved your site and our listeners are going to learn it. A number of wonderful lessons and were posted on our home page and NCWIT channel as well as a podcast directory and blog. Of course, we're in really shine is on the ncwit.org site.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yes, very excited about that. Today we're talking to Christina Wallace and as I mentioned before, Christina has a lot of experience in both for profit and the non‑profit sectors. She was also named as one of Mashables 44 female founders to know. Now, all of our listeners are going to know Christina.
Larry: &nbsp;There you go.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's absolutely awesome. Today she's the founding partner of BridgeUp: STEM and certainly near and dear to our heart. For those of you listening, STEM is Science, Technology, Engineering and Math and BridgeUP: STEM is a new educational initiative at the American Museum of Natural History and it's focused on introducing girls and minorities to computer science again, something that we care passionately about.
Before her role at BridgeUP STEM, she was vice‑president at Startup Institute and the founder and CEO of Venture Back eCommerce brand, Quincy Apparels. A management consultant with Boston Consulting Group, who we used to hire when I worked at AT&amp;T, and an arts manager at the Metropolitan Opera. Wow, what a span of things. I can't wait to hear about it in addition to, she has an MBA from Harvard University.
Christina, welcome. We're really happy to have you here. Before we start and get into the interview questions maybe just a little bit more for listeners about BridgeUp: STEM. I'm sure they'll be curious to know what you're up to there.
Christina Wallace: &nbsp;Sure, we're very excited. We're about six months into a five year grant to build BridgeUP: STEM. Helen Gurly Brown Foundation was very generous in being our founding partner to support this. It is a new portfolio of programs actually.
There's several pieces of this that we're building over the next five years at the museum, really focused on diversifying the pipeline of talent going into STEM. Really trying to get more girls, more minorities, under‑served students into the pipeline, getting them into computer science and encouraging them and inspiring them.
Our first piece of initiative is what we call our Brown Scholars Program and that is intended as an intensive two‑year after school program for 9th and 10th grade girls to come to the museum two days a week after school and we'll teach them to code in python. We'll introduce them to some statistics and data science and a little bit of algorithms and databases and data visualization.
We'll do that through using the scientific data sets here and letting them become mini data scientists. Getting to play with genome data, getting to play with our digital universe atlas of the universe and, in their second year, do real research with some of our scientists here and the opportunity to really contribute to some of the work being done.
That's our first big kick off for this program. Our girls start in our first cohort in February and we'll do another cohort sort of every trimester. Fall, Spring and Summer for the next few years. Then we're adding additional programming this summer for middle school students, boys and girls, trying to get out into the boroughs of New York City so it's not just something we have on the upper west side.
Then we're really looking into professional development and curriculum development opportunities for public school teachers. Trying to bring computational thinking and computer science into existing math and science classrooms.
Trying to really give the students of New York an opportunity to get exposed to this discipline and hoping to piquÈ their interest so that they're, you know, thinking about this as a real opportunity when they go to college.
Lucy: &nbsp;And we like that at NCWIT, I'll tell you what. [laughs]
Larry: &nbsp;Yes. Ain't that the truth.
Lucy: &nbsp;That is the truth. Christina, why don't you tell our listeners a bit about how you first got interested in technology and, as you look out there with all the great technologies you mentioned, data science for example. What other kinds of technologies do you see that you think are really exciting?
PARTICIPANT: &nbsp;Sure. So, I got into technology pretty young without realizing that it was a thing, or a thing that I could get into. My mom was a secretary in the computer science department and Michigan State University. We got to play with one of the very first laptops.
It didn't have an internal hard drive, it was a dual floppy with a green screen so you could boot it up on one floppy and then you could run a program off the other. And got to participate in some of the early experiments that some of the professors at Michigan State were doing with fingerprint scanning, which seemed so out there in 1991.
And really got to see that this was something kind of cool and exciting from the future. I've always was a math nerd, was a math major all through college and took some early programming classes as part of that major. I didn't really put one and one together until business school.
I started my career, as you said, at the Metropolitan Opera, I started off on the art side. I've always been both the technologist and a creative artsy person and sort of thought the arts was where I was going to be where I made my home.
When I got to business school and discovered there were all the tech start‑ups and sort of the creativity that came with creating something from nothing from a product and a business and really getting to kind of imagine something and then go build it, combined with the power of technology and computer science and data and all of those pieces.
It just kind of clicked for the first time. That's how I made my path back into this. It's a little bit secluded, but technology is always been there from the beginning.
In terms of the stuff I'm really excited about, I think data science is the thing right now. Computer programming, web dev, it's exciting. I like to make pretty things and I like to have them live online. Certainly mobile apps have been of focus for a long time.
Being able to ask big questions from giant data sets and really get those in place that can help you design better products. It can help you think about customer segmentation a little bit better. In our case, to help you understand the human body or how different fossils might have originated from different family trees within evolution.
In the case of our digital universe, finding new XO planets or seeing what else is out there in the giant universe. I think that's what's really exciting because there's more data now than there's ever existed ever.
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Christina: &nbsp;It just seems to be compounding. Learning the tools and the skill set to be able to ask those questions and answer them is what gets me excited.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow. That's really interesting.
Lucy: &nbsp;What's an XO planet?
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah. What is an XO planet?
Christina: &nbsp;An XO planet is a planet that exists outside of our solar system. Our planet all rotate around the sun.
Lucy: &nbsp;I'm such a moron.
Christina: &nbsp;The sun isn't the only star that has planets. Our astronomers that search for XO planets are looking for planets that rotate around other stars.
Lucy: &nbsp;Thank you for that. [laughs]
Christina: &nbsp;You could tell I work at a science museum now. [laughs]
Lucy: &nbsp;Yup. That's awesome.
Larry: &nbsp;With all of these, this is very fascinating. Just why is it that you are an entrepreneur? What is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Christina: &nbsp;Oh, man. The creating something from nothing is just the thing that drives me. I was a theater director and a producer all throughout college. Going from that, spark of an idea to the plan of how we're going to do it, and then actually building it even if it requires some duct tape and holding two sticks together.
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Christina: &nbsp;Hoping no one pushes a little bit too hard on the scenery. That's always been the conception to the execution in its first, second and 12th iteration, ideally under intense time, pressure with fewer resources than you would like is just what gets me excited, I think.
I've never been at the point of scaling companies. I certainly haven't been at the point to make them big and IPO or any of that. It's sort of that zero to two that gets me really excited.
When I created Quincy Apparel with my co‑founder, it's sort of the first time that we got to take this experience from the arts and kind of throw it onto a business model and see how that works and just...I don't know. Butting your head against the wall a hundred times and having it work 101 is just so exciting that I had to do it again [laughs] .
When I moved onto Startup Institute and got to open a New York office, it was great to be given a product and ideas that they already figured out, but the question of how do we make it work in New York or will it work in New York?
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Christina: &nbsp;If it works in New York, how do we make it work in other places too? Then, now getting to be able to start‑up inside a museum that has such an amazing brand and cultural trove. Everyone thinks who about MNH, their first reaction was always, "I love that museum. It's love."
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Christina: &nbsp;You don't get to build something that's attached to love very often.
Lucy: &nbsp;Awesome. I loved the Night at the Museum movie. [laughs] I love them also.
Christina: &nbsp;We just had our first hackathon here at the museum, which was a big deal. To say the word "hackathon" in the museum and to let people spend the night and create something on our digital universe is exciting.
Lucy: &nbsp;It was at the museum?
Christina: &nbsp;It's the best of both worlds. The Night at the Museum, the 3:00 AM in the Hall of the Universe combined with, "Here, take our data. Build something cool on top of it."
Lucy: &nbsp;It's so cool. That is awesome. Along this pathway, who has influenced you? You have mentors, role models, or people you've admired from afar?
Christina: &nbsp;Yeah. There's been quite a few. One of them that stands out so immediately was a professor I had at business school, Dr. Noam Wasserman. He teaches this course called Founder's Dilemmas. It basically goes through all the ways that a start‑up could fail. It had nothing to do with your products sucking.
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Christina: &nbsp;It's mostly about interpersonal skills, founder things, legal things, and how to think about who you need on your team. It's just the nuts and the bolts and the playbook for how to actually take an idea and turn it into a business that can continue to exist.
It was a complete accident that I got into this class as a virtue of our class selection process. Maybe the second time he was teaching it, it wasn't in demand then as it is now. I actually tried to get out of the class, and I told him that.
Lucy: &nbsp;[laughs]
Christina: &nbsp;I was going to take this other education class and I couldn't get out of it. I was like, "I'm so sorry. Please forget that I told you I was trying to leave the class."
[laughter]
Christina: &nbsp;It ended up being one of the best experiences that I had at school. He stayed as one of my close mentors throughout this thing. Always on speed dial when I needed him during Quincy and even post my startup as I thought about, "What do I do next?" "How do I build a career within the start‑up world without being always the founder or always kind of driving this?"
He's just been always there for me. I try to pay it back when I can, going back and teaching in his class or contributing when I can. He's been just a huge supporter, from the beginning, even when I told him I wasn't interested in being there on purpose.
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Christina: &nbsp;And then I think the other person that really just has been driving me, especially in New York is Rachel Sklar.
Lucy: &nbsp;Oh sure.
Christina: &nbsp;She's the founder of "Change the Ratio" and "The List" and just has been on the forefront of trying to get more visibility and opportunity and access for women in tech, trying to make sure that not every conference is the stale pale male lineup of speakers. Trying to really call out biases when she sees them in media, or in companies, in the way that funders and VC's think about the work they're doing.
She's unflagging in this regard. She takes a lot of criticism sometimes. It's hard getting to the forefront of a revolution, but she just does it and she always looks great doing it. She has so much energy and has been one of the reasons I've gotten such a great network of women in New York, from the beginning that have exponentially helped me succeed here and have become some of my best friends, which is pretty awesome to have that kind of a community.
Lucy: &nbsp;Absolutely.
Larry: &nbsp;Boy, that's better than dessert. Yes, that's good.
Christina: &nbsp;[laughs]
Lucy: &nbsp;Better than dessert.
Larry: &nbsp;Though, Christina, let me ask this, with all the things you've been through and you've developed and you've been a part of and everything else, what's been the toughest thing you've had to do in your career?
Christina: &nbsp;The toughest thing I've had to do in my career was to get back up after my company failed. It's something that I try to talk a lot about, because I don't think failure is something that high‑achieving, go‑getter people really think about it until the moment that they're in it themselves. It can feel really, kind of career ending or overwhelming or any of those things, and it's not, at least in the start‑up world.
The moment that I knew that we were going to shut down and went through that whole process of unwinding the company. Then I went home and I crawled into my bed and I didn't leave for three weeks. There was this moment of paralysis, of like, "Well what do I do now? "
In addition to the, "I have no skills. I'm generalist. I'm a little bit of everything and no one's going to want to hire me," through to the like, "How do I look my investors in the face again," and say, "I lost your money. I'm so sorry. That was never something that I thought would happen." To, "What about my employees?" They pay their rent with paychecks that I was giving them and they don't have them anymore. I've had kids on my health insurance plan. All of these things are going through your head and it can feel overwhelming.
I gave myself a couple of weeks to watch The West Wing and to eat seamless and not see anyone. Then I got back up. That four‑week period was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do personally or professionally, but I did it and it all worked out.
I don't think any point in the last two years, anyone has asked me, except from a "I want to learn perspective," no one's asked me "Why did your company fail? That's such a terrible reflection of you as a human being or an indication of your ability or your potential or your worth as a person." It's never came up.
That was surprising and something I hope especially more women experience, at least in a lot of the public speaking I do and the mentoring I do. High achieving young women have never really failed at basically anything. The potential for failure, I hope, doesn't prevent them from trying.
Lucy: &nbsp;That is so well said. In many of these cases, in both of the last questions you answered, you said like in the case of your professor, you know, "I didn't want to be there and yet, I learned so much." Nobody wants to fail, but definitely it's one of the places you learn a lot.
Larry: &nbsp;Yep.
Christina: &nbsp;Oh yeah.
Lucy: &nbsp;You learn how to lead in hard times. That's very hard. I don't want to say it's remarkable experience because you don't say, "I hope you fail," but there's a lot of learning that can happen there.
Sort of along those lines, you've already given us great advice about being an entrepreneur. If you were sitting here now, with young people talking about entrepreneurship, what other advice would you give them about being an entrepreneur?
Christina: &nbsp;Not everyone should be an entrepreneur. Right now, it's being very popularized. It's in the Zeitgeist. We're sort of turning a lot of entrepreneurs into these rock stars. That's great that we're giving the visibility and the platform to sort of show off that this is one potential path, but it's not the path for everyone.
There's also a lot that can be done, and it can be very fulfilling. It can be the right path to be an early hire at a start‑up, and to be employee number two or number one or number ten. To recognize that I want to be in a place that creates value. I want to be at a place that is very close to it's customers and listens for their feedback and iterates. I want to be at a place that values learning of it's employees and is really focused on professional development and opportunity for us as well as creating value for investors.
Identify that start‑ups or technology companies or however you want to define this is a sector that you would really like to be part of without being the first one off the ship, with the idea and no money and living on the couch and taking all the risk. There's a lot of great experiences and obviously, we need entrepreneurs in order to drive innovation. But you don't have to be an entrepreneur to be entrepreneurial.
That's the distinction that, when I'm talking to a lot of the young students that I'm mentoring, really trying to help them define "Why do you want to be an entrepreneur? What specifically are you impassioned about solving a specific problem. Do you just see a potential opening in a market that you want to take advantage of?"
Or, do you say, "I'm looking at the jobs in front of me in consulting and banking and brand management. None of those look exciting. I really liked that startup movie. I'm going to go start a company because it's not that hard to get $25,000 and two friends to build something at a hackathon." Those are very different things.
To really identify where you think you sit and that it might change over time. You might not be ready to be an entrepreneur right out of school, or even in your 20's, but you want to get that experience. At some point, when you find that thing that you can't stop thinking about, and that opportunity that you just have to build, because no one else can build it except you, then you go and take that plunge.
You risk everything to build it and that's totally legitimate. It doesn't have to be just his second and you don't have to be the founder to still get that entrepreneurial experience.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's very wise.
Larry: &nbsp;Boy, that's for sure. Christina I want to thank you for sharing the experience that you went through a few years ago. It's really a great turn on for a lot of people who really could use that extra push. Now I'm going to ask you another question...
Christina: &nbsp;Sure.
Larry: &nbsp;...That kind of ties in with that. What are the personal characteristics that you have that given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Christina: &nbsp;This is a great question. I was reading a Steve Blank blog post on this today on the "First Round Capital" blog about what to look for when you're basically dating for co‑founders or what specific traits to look for. I don't remember the exact quotes that he put in there, but he basically outlined it as someone who can focus in the midst of extreme turmoil.
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Christina: &nbsp;And it's function and moving pieces. Someone who is resilient and has endurance, that this is not a sprint, and it's such a clichÈ but it's so important to especially if you've never run a marathon. To understand what it means to run a marathon because it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.
To have that resilience to keep getting back up and continue to try and push through. Someone who just has that work ethic to put in the hours. It's not just about long nights so that you can claim that you're working hard.
But it's not like a work‑life balance thing. At least that's the beginning. To have that understanding of the discipline required for the home marshmallow test. Can you wait till tomorrow to get two marshmallows versus getting one marshmallow right now? Do you have the discipline to push through for a delayed gratification?
Do you have the resilience and the endurance to pick yourself up even after you've been thrown to the ground 20 times? Do you have that ability to focus and make decisions when you're in sort of extreme chaos and dysfunction? Or does that paralyze you? Because that's an early stage company, the very beginnings of entrepreneurship.
It's not about executing against an idea, it's trying to narrow down what that idea is. Triggering out what type of business plan that you are trying to execute against his and being able to prioritize and assign resources to different things when everything is priority number one. Some people have life experiences that just naturally prepare them for it.
Thanks to you for saying that the ideal founder in his opinion of someone who grew up in a dysfunctional family and was a platoon army leader.
[laughter]
Christina: &nbsp;That gives you that perspective of chaos but decision making and leadership. Some people have those experiences. I would argue that, I was a costly trained pianist, and challenged for 16 years. That honed my discipline side of my brain, the ability to sit still and practice six hours a day. In hopes that three months from now, this piece will be ready to perform.
I certainly grew up in a slightly dysfunctional, crazy things moving around and changing all the time kind of home life. From the endurance and the resilience piece, I run marathons and I climb mountains. I don't do either those things because I really like sweating. It's a way to sort of build that endurance muscle to push through and kind of recognize that head space that you've been there before and you can kind of get to the end of it.
Lucy: &nbsp;Here in Boulder we have mountains and marathons.
[laughter]
Larry: &nbsp;Uh‑huh.
Christina: &nbsp;There you go.
Lucy: &nbsp;We have all those things here and we have craziness too.
Larry: &nbsp;That's true, that's true.
Christina: &nbsp;I believe that.
Lucy: &nbsp;Totally crazy. You mentioned the work‑life balance and that's actually our next question around. How do you then sort of in some sense blend your personal and professional lives? Because we all have something that we do outside, what we call "work." Right?
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah.
Christina: &nbsp;Again, it's sort of a horrible not answer, answer. But it also sort of depends. It depends on what stage of life you're in, it depends on how you need to balance those things to make it work. It depends on who else is involved in the room with you right? So with Quincy, I made the decision very early on that it was all I was going to do.
I worked seven days a week at it. I didn't sing in a choir, I didn't run marathons, I didn't date, I didn't see my friends, I didn't really see my family. It was just all I did, seven days a week. All I could think about even when I was sleeping. It was the one I needed. At the beginning we were getting from a running start with no money. We had a very specific length of time before we were out of money so that was the runway we had, it was about eight months. It either had to work or it was over.
At the end of those eight months, we did managed to raise a venture capital. We had some resources and we were able to hire some people and my co‑founder and I looked at each other and said "We have to have slightly more work‑life balance, or we're going to burn out." So now we're in a different stage in our company. We're able to say, "OK, now we're working six days a week. We'll take one day off every weekend." She was married so she tried to find time and space to make room for her husband.
I decided to take up long distance running and I got to go back on audition for a choir, so I'd have something. We got eight months more into that and we were nearly to a point where either was going to work or we were going to have to shut down. In either case, killing ourselves wasn't going to make that difference.
We said "OK, now we're going to work five and half days a week" and make a little bit more space for ourselves. In the case of per jobs done at MNH, it's a very different culture here. It's a museum, it's a non‑profit. We have hours that the museum are open, we have hours that the education programs happen.
A lot of the partners that I meet to interact with in order to build this program, they're not going to be on their email at four in the morning on a Sunday. There's no point in me being on email at four in the morning on a Sunday. There's a lot more space for me to have a work‑life balance here because the other partners in the room, insists on it. It's the culture that we have here.
It can be frustrating sometimes. It can feel a little bit slow sometimes and that's the pay off, right? The nice thing is, I'm not competing with other companies to be the first to market with our product. It's a different type of a start‑up and a different type of an organization.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow, that's really something. One of the things I would like to ask is, what mountain are you going to climb next but I'm...
[laughter]
Christina: &nbsp;Well I can tell you, I leave in two days. I'm going to Nepal to go to average base camp.
Lucy: &nbsp;Oh my gosh. Wow, be careful.
Larry: &nbsp;Oh wow.
Christina: &nbsp;Thank you.
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah, you have a great time. Yes.
[crosstalk]
Larry: &nbsp;Well, you've already been through a great deal, you achieved a lot. What's up for your next?
Christina: &nbsp;I mean, I'm excited for project STEM. This could be a program that isn't just something we run at the American Museum of National History. But something that other museums and other informal learning areas might be able to adapt. One thing that we're already seeing in our early development here, is that by teaching coding in computer science through the lens of a subject that girls and minorities already know and are familiar with.
We're getting a much higher sort of response rate to the applications and to the programs than we were expecting because if you look at biology, they don't have the gender gap that we have in computer science. Or at least not nearly as much, and certainly in a place like museum where a lot of these kids have been going on school trips since they were in kindergarten. It's a place that they recognize and that they feel comfortable in.
We're not having this "Oh I'm not sure I fit in there" piece. For me, the big question that I wanted to ask with this program and I hope that will be able to publish the results and help others think about replicating is, can we teach computer science a lot like we teach English? Which is a tool to help you do other things.
If the thing that you're interested in is biology or if it's fashion, or if it's art, let me teach you different languages and process season. Algorithms and things that it might be interesting tools for you to do that other thing that you care a lot about. We might be able to really see this change in this diversity of the talent that's interested in it.
This is my big focus, what's got this grand for five years and I intend to take the most of it. But I really want to see this as something that scales beyond just MNH and beyond just New York City. As a way to think about computer science and STEM education. Or populations that aren't necessarily just attracted to the idea of "Let me learn to code, cause I want to learn to code."
Lucy: &nbsp;Amen to that. If NCWIT can help you, we are here.
Christina: &nbsp;Excellent.
Lucy: &nbsp;We are absolutely here.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow I'll tell you, that's a fact. We'll have your interview course up on our home page at w3w3.com, in our blog, in our podcast directory, in our newsletter. Most of all, go to ncwit.org and you'll see some fantastic information and stories.
Lucy: &nbsp;Well, thank you Christina, very much of just great advice. We always love these interviews. We ask the same questions to everybody and they're all different, the answers of course. Very interesting, thank you very much.
Christina: &nbsp;That's awesome. Thank you, I was so happy to be here. This is such a great initials of you guys have.
Lucy: &nbsp;Thank you very much.
Larry: &nbsp;Christina, I'm glad you didn't ask me to carry your bag on a couple of days so...
[laughter]
Lucy: &nbsp;Well, thanks very much. We're sort of done with the interview now. But I should just reinforce that offer to help, in any way, NCWIT got a lot of research and practice. What you're doing with bridge up STEM is very much in our will house in terms of interest.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes.
Christina: &nbsp;Excellent. I will absolutely follow up with you guys on that.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yeah. We have a K12 alliance and all the organizations are working together in different things. There's no membership fees for non‑profits so could be some natural affinities there.
Christina: &nbsp;Excellent. I will look into that more when I'm back from Nepal.
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/christina-wallace">Christina Wallace</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Christina Wallace is the founding director of Bridge Up: STEM which is a new educational initiative at the American Museum of Natural History focused on introducing girls and minorities to computer science. <span style="line-height: 1.538em;">Before her current role at BridgeUp: STEM, Christina was a Vice President at </span><a href="http://www.startupinstitute.com/" style="line-height: 1.538em;">Startup Institute</a><span style="line-height: 1.538em;">, the Founder and CEO of venture-backed e-commerce brand Quincy Apparel, a management consultant with the </span><a href="http://www.bcg.com/" style="line-height: 1.538em;">Boston Consulting Group</a><span style="line-height: 1.538em;">, and an arts manager at the </span><a href="http://www.metopera.org/" style="line-height: 1.538em;">Metropolitan Opera</a><span style="line-height: 1.538em;">. "</span><span style="line-height: 1.538em;">I'm excited for project STEM," said Wallace about her program. "This could be a program that isn't just something we run at the American Museum of National History. But something that other museums and other informal learning areas might be able to adapt. One thing that we're already seeing in our early development here, is that by teaching coding in computer science through the lens of a subject that girls and minorities already know and are familiar with."</span></p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2015-03-22T00:00:00-06:00">March 22, 2015</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">27:52</div></div></div>Sun, 22 Mar 2015 13:39:15 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-christina-wallace#comments27:52Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO, co‑founder of NCWIT. The National Center for Women and Information Technology. We have another one of our really fabulous interviews today ...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO, co‑founder of NCWIT. The National Center for Women and Information Technology. We have another one of our really fabulous interviews today with women who have been very successful in the entrepreneurial space. Today we're interviewing a woman who has experience across for profit and the non‑profit entrepreneurial sectors.
Larry Nelson: & Good.
Lucy: & Good. With me is Larry Nelson, w3w3.com. Hi Larry.
Larry: & Hi, I'm really happy to be here. I really loved your site and our listeners are going to learn it. A number of wonderful lessons and were posted on our home page and NCWIT channel as well as a podcast directory and blog. Of course, we're in really shine is on the ncwit.org site.
Lucy: & Yes, very excited about that. Today we're talking to Christina Wallace and as I mentioned before, Christina has a lot of experience in both for profit and the non‑profit sectors. She was also named as one of Mashables 44 female founders to know. Now, all of our listeners are going to know Christina.
Larry: & There you go.
Lucy: & That's absolutely awesome. Today she's the founding partner of BridgeUp: STEM and certainly near and dear to our heart. For those of you listening, STEM is Science, Technology, Engineering and Math and BridgeUP: STEM is a new educational initiative at the American Museum of Natural History and it's focused on introducing girls and minorities to computer science again, something that we care passionately about.
Before her role at BridgeUP STEM, she was vice‑president at Startup Institute and the founder and CEO of Venture Back eCommerce brand, Quincy Apparels. A management consultant with Boston Consulting Group, who we used to hire when I worked at AT&T, and an arts manager at the Metropolitan Opera. Wow, what a span of things. I can't wait to hear about it in addition to, she has an MBA from Harvard University.
Christina, welcome. We're really happy to have you here. Before we start and get into the interview questions maybe just a little bit more for listeners about BridgeUp: STEM. I'm sure they'll be curious to know what you're up to there.
Christina Wallace: & Sure, we're very excited. We're about six months into a five year grant to build BridgeUP: STEM. Helen Gurly Brown Foundation was very generous in being our founding partner to support this. It is a new portfolio of programs actually.
There's several pieces of this that we're building over the next five years at the museum, really focused on diversifying the pipeline of talent going into STEM. Really trying to get more girls, more minorities, under‑served students into the pipeline, getting them into computer science and encouraging them and inspiring them.
Our first piece of initiative is what we call our Brown Scholars Program and that is intended as an intensive two‑year after school program for 9th and 10th grade girls to come to the museum two days a week after school and we'll teach them to code in python. We'll introduce them to some statistics and data science and a little bit of algorithms and databases and data visualization.
We'll do that through using the scientific data sets here and letting them become mini data scientists. Getting to play with genome data, getting to play with our digital universe atlas of the universe and, in their second year, do real research with some of our scientists here and the opportunity to really contribute to some of the work being done.
That's our first big kick off for this program. Our girls start in our first cohort in February and we'll do another cohort sort of every trimester. Fall, Spring and Summer for the next few years. Then we're adding additional programming this summer for middle school students, boys and girls, trying to get out into the boroughs of New York City so it's not just something we have on the upper west side.
Then we're really looking into professional development and curriculum development opportunities for public school teachers. Trying to bring computational thinking and computer science into existing math and science classrooms.
Trying to really give the students of New York an opportunity to get exposed to this discipline and hoping to piquÈ their interest so that they're, you know, thinking about this as a real opportunity when they go to college.
Lucy: & And we like that at NCWIT, I'll tell you what. [laughs]
Larry: & Yes. Ain't that the truth.
Lucy: & That is the truth. Christina, why don't you tell our listeners a bit about how you first got interested in technology and, as you look out there with all the great technologies you mentioned, data science for example. What other kinds of technologies do you see that you think are really exciting?
PARTICIPANT: & Sure. So, I got into technology pretty young without realizing that it was a thing, or a thing that I could get into. My mom was a secretary in the computer science department and Michigan State University. We got to play with one of the very first laptops.
It didn't have an internal hard drive, it was a dual floppy with a green screen so you could boot it up on one floppy and then you could run a program off the other. And got to participate in some of the early experiments that some of the professors at Michigan State were doing with fingerprint scanning, which seemed so out there in 1991.
And really got to see that this was something kind of cool and exciting from the future. I've always was a math nerd, was a math major all through college and took some early programming classes as part of that major. I didn't really put one and one together until business school.
I started my career, as you said, at the Metropolitan Opera, I started off on the art side. I've always been both the technologist and a creative artsy person and sort of thought the arts was where I was going to be where I made my home.
When I got to business school and discovered there were all the tech start‑ups and sort of the creativity that came with creating something from nothing from a product and a business and really getting to kind of imagine something and then go build it, combined with the power of technology and computer science and data and all of those pieces.
It just kind of clicked for the first time. That's how I made my path back into this. It's a little bit secluded, but technology is always been there from the beginning.
In terms of the stuff I'm really excited about, I think data science is the thing right now. Computer programming, web dev, it's exciting. I like to make pretty things and I like to have them live online. Certainly mobile apps have been of focus for a long time.
Being able to ask big questions from giant data sets and really get those in place that can help you design better products. It can help you think about customer segmentation a little bit better. In our case, to help you understand the human body or how different fossils might have originated from different family trees within evolution.
In the case of our digital universe, finding new XO planets or seeing what else is out there in the giant universe. I think that's what's really exciting because there's more data now than there's ever existed ever.
Larry: & [laughs]
Christina: & It just seems to be compounding. Learning the tools and the skill set to be able to ask those questions and answer them is what gets me excited.
Larry: & Wow. That's really interesting.
Lucy: & What's an XO planet?
Larry: & Yeah. What is an XO planet?
Christina: & An XO planet is a planet that exists outside of our solar system. Our planet all rotate around the sun.
Lucy: & I'm such a moron.
Christina: & The sun isn't the only star that has planets. Our astronomers that search for XO planets are looking for planets that rotate around other stars.
Lucy: & Thank you for that. [laughs]
Christina: & You could tell I work at a science museum now. [laughs]
Lucy: & Yup. That's awesome.
Larry: & With all of these, this is very fascinating. Just why is it that you are an entrepreneur? What is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Christina: & Oh, man. The creating something from nothing is just the thing that drives me. I was a theater director and a producer all throughout college. Going from that, spark of an idea to the plan of how we're going to do it, and then actually building it even if it requires some duct tape and holding two sticks together.
Larry: & [laughs]
Christina: & Hoping no one pushes a little bit too hard on the scenery. That's always been the conception to the execution in its first, second and 12th iteration, ideally under intense time, pressure with fewer resources than you would like is just what gets me excited, I think.
I've never been at the point of scaling companies. I certainly haven't been at the point to make them big and IPO or any of that. It's sort of that zero to two that gets me really excited.
When I created Quincy Apparel with my co‑founder, it's sort of the first time that we got to take this experience from the arts and kind of throw it onto a business model and see how that works and just...I don't know. Butting your head against the wall a hundred times and having it work 101 is just so exciting that I had to do it again [laughs] .
When I moved onto Startup Institute and got to open a New York office, it was great to be given a product and ideas that they already figured out, but the question of how do we make it work in New York or will it work in New York?
Larry: & [laughs]
Christina: & If it works in New York, how do we make it work in other places too? Then, now getting to be able to start‑up inside a museum that has such an amazing brand and cultural trove. Everyone thinks who about MNH, their first reaction was always, "I love that museum. It's love."
Larry: & [laughs]
Christina: & You don't get to build something that's attached to love very often.
Lucy: & Awesome. I loved the Night at the Museum movie. [laughs] I love them also.
Christina: & We just had our first hackathon here at the museum, which was a big deal. To say the word "hackathon" in the museum and to let people spend the night and create something on our digital universe is exciting.
Lucy: & It was at the museum?
Christina: & It's the best of both worlds. The Night at the Museum, the 3:00 AM in the Hall of the Universe combined with, "Here, take our data. Build something cool on top of it."
Lucy: & It's so cool. That is awesome. Along this pathway, who has influenced you? You have mentors, role models, or people you've admired from afar?
Christina: & Yeah. There's been quite a few. One of them that stands out so immediately was a professor I had at business school, Dr. Noam Wasserman. He teaches this course called Founder's Dilemmas. It basically goes through all the ways that a start‑up could fail. It had nothing to do with your products sucking.
Larry: & [laughs]
Christina: & It's mostly about interpersonal skills, founder things, legal things, and how to think about who you need on your team. It's just the nuts and the bolts and the playbook for how to actually take an idea and turn it into a business that can continue to exist.
It was a complete accident that I got into this class as a virtue of our class selection process. Maybe the second time he was teaching it, it wasn't in demand then as it is now. I actually tried to get out of the class, and I told him that.
Lucy: & [laughs]
Christina: & I was going to take this other education class and I couldn't get out of it. I was like, "I'm so sorry. Please forget that I told you I was trying to leave the class."
[laughter]
Christina: & It ended up being one of the best experiences that I had at school. He stayed as one of my close mentors throughout this thing. Always on speed dial when I needed him during Quincy and even post my startup as I thought about, "What do I do next?" "How do I build a career within the start‑up world without being always the founder or always kind of driving this?"
He's just been always there for me. I try to pay it back when I can, going back and teaching in his class or contributing when I can. He's been just a huge supporter, from the beginning, even when I told him I wasn't interested in being there on purpose.
Larry: & [laughs]
Christina: & And then I think the other person that really just has been driving me, especially in New York is Rachel Sklar.
Lucy: & Oh sure.
Christina: & She's the founder of "Change the Ratio" and "The List" and just has been on the forefront of trying to get more visibility and opportunity and access for women in tech, trying to make sure that not every conference is the stale pale male lineup of speakers. Trying to really call out biases when she sees them in media, or in companies, in the way that funders and VC's think about the work they're doing.
She's unflagging in this regard. She takes a lot of criticism sometimes. It's hard getting to the forefront of a revolution, but she just does it and she always looks great doing it. She has so much energy and has been one of the reasons I've gotten such a great network of women in New York, from the beginning that have exponentially helped me succeed here and have become some of my best friends, which is pretty awesome to have that kind of a community.
Lucy: & Absolutely.
Larry: & Boy, that's better than dessert. Yes, that's good.
Christina: & [laughs]
Lucy: & Better than dessert.
Larry: & Though, Christina, let me ask this, with all the things you've been through and you've developed and you've been a part of and everything else, what's been the toughest thing you've had to do in your career?
Christina: & The toughest thing I've had to do in my career was to get back up after my company failed. It's something that I try to talk a lot about, because I don't think failure is something that high‑achieving, go‑getter people really think about it until the moment that they're in it themselves. It can feel really, kind of career ending or overwhelming or any of those things, and it's not, at least in the start‑up world.
The moment that I knew that we were going to shut down and went through that whole process of unwinding the company. Then I went home and I crawled into my bed and I didn't leave for three weeks. There was this moment of paralysis, of like, "Well what do I do now? "
In addition to the, "I have no skills. I'm generalist. I'm a little bit of everything and no one's going to want to hire me," through to the like, "How do I look my investors in the face again," and say, "I lost your money. I'm so sorry. That was never something that I thought would happen." To, "What about my employees?" They pay their rent with paychecks that I was giving them and they don't have them anymore. I've had kids on my health insurance plan. All of these things are going through your head and it can feel overwhelming.
I gave myself a couple of weeks to watch The West Wing and to eat seamless and not see anyone. Then I got back up. That four‑week period was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do personally or professionally, but I did it and it all worked out.
I don't think any point in the last two years, anyone has asked me, except from a "I want to learn perspective," no one's asked me "Why did your company fail? That's such a terrible reflection of you as a human being or an indication of your ability or your potential or your worth as a person." It's never came up.
That was surprising and something I hope especially more women experience, at least in a lot of the public speaking I do and the mentoring I do. High achieving young women have never really failed at basically anything. The potential for failure, I hope, doesn't prevent them from trying.
Lucy: & That is so well said. In many of these cases, in both of the last questions you answered, you said like in the case of your professor, you know, "I didn't want to be there and yet, I learned so much." Nobody wants to fail, but definitely it's one of the places you learn a lot.
Larry: & Yep.
Christina: & Oh yeah.
Lucy: & You learn how to lead in hard times. That's very hard. I don't want to say it's remarkable experience because you don't say, "I hope you fail," but there's a lot of learning that can happen there.
Sort of along those lines, you've already given us great advice about being an entrepreneur. If you were sitting here now, with young people talking about entrepreneurship, what other advice would you give them about being an entrepreneur?
Christina: & Not everyone should be an entrepreneur. Right now, it's being very popularized. It's in the Zeitgeist. We're sort of turning a lot of entrepreneurs into these rock stars. That's great that we're giving the visibility and the platform to sort of show off that this is one potential path, but it's not the path for everyone.
There's also a lot that can be done, and it can be very fulfilling. It can be the right path to be an early hire at a start‑up, and to be employee number two or number one or number ten. To recognize that I want to be in a place that creates value. I want to be at a place that is very close to it's customers and listens for their feedback and iterates. I want to be at a place that values learning of it's employees and is really focused on professional development and opportunity for us as well as creating value for investors.
Identify that start‑ups or technology companies or however you want to define this is a sector that you would really like to be part of without being the first one off the ship, with the idea and no money and living on the couch and taking all the risk. There's a lot of great experiences and obviously, we need entrepreneurs in order to drive innovation. But you don't have to be an entrepreneur to be entrepreneurial.
That's the distinction that, when I'm talking to a lot of the young students that I'm mentoring, really trying to help them define "Why do you want to be an entrepreneur? What specifically are you impassioned about solving a specific problem. Do you just see a potential opening in a market that you want to take advantage of?"
Or, do you say, "I'm looking at the jobs in front of me in consulting and banking and brand management. None of those look exciting. I really liked that startup movie. I'm going to go start a company because it's not that hard to get $25,000 and two friends to build something at a hackathon." Those are very different things.
To really identify where you think you sit and that it might change over time. You might not be ready to be an entrepreneur right out of school, or even in your 20's, but you want to get that experience. At some point, when you find that thing that you can't stop thinking about, and that opportunity that you just have to build, because no one else can build it except you, then you go and take that plunge.
You risk everything to build it and that's totally legitimate. It doesn't have to be just his second and you don't have to be the founder to still get that entrepreneurial experience.
Lucy: & That's very wise.
Larry: & Boy, that's for sure. Christina I want to thank you for sharing the experience that you went through a few years ago. It's really a great turn on for a lot of people who really could use that extra push. Now I'm going to ask you another question...
Christina: & Sure.
Larry: & ...That kind of ties in with that. What are the personal characteristics that you have that given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Christina: & This is a great question. I was reading a Steve Blank blog post on this today on the "First Round Capital" blog about what to look for when you're basically dating for co‑founders or what specific traits to look for. I don't remember the exact quotes that he put in there, but he basically outlined it as someone who can focus in the midst of extreme turmoil.
Larry: & [laughs]
Christina: & And it's function and moving pieces. Someone who is resilient and has endurance, that this is not a sprint, and it's such a clichÈ but it's so important to especially if you've never run a marathon. To understand what it means to run a marathon because it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.
To have that resilience to keep getting back up and continue to try and push through. Someone who just has that work ethic to put in the hours. It's not just about long nights so that you can claim that you're working hard.
But it's not like a work‑life balance thing. At least that's the beginning. To have that understanding of the discipline required for the home marshmallow test. Can you wait till tomorrow to get two marshmallows versus getting one marshmallow right now? Do you have the discipline to push through for a delayed gratification?
Do you have the resilience and the endurance to pick yourself up even after you've been thrown to the ground 20 times? Do you have that ability to focus and make decisions when you're in sort of extreme chaos and dysfunction? Or does that paralyze you? Because that's an early stage company, the very beginnings of entrepreneurship.
It's not about executing against an idea, it's trying to narrow down what that idea is. Triggering out what type of business plan that you are trying to execute against his and being able to prioritize and assign resources to different things when everything is priority number one. Some people have life experiences that just naturally prepare them for it.
Thanks to you for saying that the ideal founder in his opinion of someone who grew up in a dysfunctional family and was a platoon army leader.
[laughter]
Christina: & That gives you that perspective of chaos but decision making and leadership. Some people have those experiences. I would argue that, I was a costly trained pianist, and challenged for 16 years. That honed my discipline side of my brain, the ability to sit still and practice six hours a day. In hopes that three months from now, this piece will be ready to perform.
I certainly grew up in a slightly dysfunctional, crazy things moving around and changing all the time kind of home life. From the endurance and the resilience piece, I run marathons and I climb mountains. I don't do either those things because I really like sweating. It's a way to sort of build that endurance muscle to push through and kind of recognize that head space that you've been there before and you can kind of get to the end of it.
Lucy: & Here in Boulder we have mountains and marathons.
[laughter]
Larry: & Uh‑huh.
Christina: & There you go.
Lucy: & We have all those things here and we have craziness too.
Larry: & That's true, that's true.
Christina: & I believe that.
Lucy: & Totally crazy. You mentioned the work‑life balance and that's actually our next question around. How do you then sort of in some sense blend your personal and professional lives? Because we all have something that we do outside, what we call "work." Right?
Larry: & Yeah.
Christina: & Again, it's sort of a horrible not answer, answer. But it also sort of depends. It depends on what stage of life you're in, it depends on how you need to balance those things to make it work. It depends on who else is involved in the room with you right? So with Quincy, I made the decision very early on that it was all I was going to do.
I worked seven days a week at it. I didn't sing in a choir, I didn't run marathons, I didn't date, I didn't see my friends, I didn't really see my family. It was just all I did, seven days a week. All I could think about even when I was sleeping. It was the one I needed. At the beginning we were getting from a running start with no money. We had a very specific length of time before we were out of money so that was the runway we had, it was about eight months. It either had to work or it was over.
At the end of those eight months, we did managed to raise a venture capital. We had some resources and we were able to hire some people and my co‑founder and I looked at each other and said "We have to have slightly more work‑life balance, or we're going to burn out." So now we're in a different stage in our company. We're able to say, "OK, now we're working six days a week. We'll take one day off every weekend." She was married so she tried to find time and space to make room for her husband.
I decided to take up long distance running and I got to go back on audition for a choir, so I'd have something. We got eight months more into that and we were nearly to a point where either was going to work or we were going to have to shut down. In either case, killing ourselves wasn't going to make that difference.
We said "OK, now we're going to work five and half days a week" and make a little bit more space for ourselves. In the case of per jobs done at MNH, it's a very different culture here. It's a museum, it's a non‑profit. We have hours that the museum are open, we have hours that the education programs happen.
A lot of the partners that I meet to interact with in order to build this program, they're not going to be on their email at four in the morning on a Sunday. There's no point in me being on email at four in the morning on a Sunday. There's a lot more space for me to have a work‑life balance here because the other partners in the room, insists on it. It's the culture that we have here.
It can be frustrating sometimes. It can feel a little bit slow sometimes and that's the pay off, right? The nice thing is, I'm not competing with other companies to be the first to market with our product. It's a different type of a start‑up and a different type of an organization.
Larry: & Wow, that's really something. One of the things I would like to ask is, what mountain are you going to climb next but I'm...
[laughter]
Christina: & Well I can tell you, I leave in two days. I'm going to Nepal to go to average base camp.
Lucy: & Oh my gosh. Wow, be careful.
Larry: & Oh wow.
Christina: & Thank you.
Larry: & Yeah, you have a great time. Yes.
[crosstalk]
Larry: & Well, you've already been through a great deal, you achieved a lot. What's up for your next?
Christina: & I mean, I'm excited for project STEM. This could be a program that isn't just something we run at the American Museum of National History. But something that other museums and other informal learning areas might be able to adapt. One thing that we're already seeing in our early development here, is that by teaching coding in computer science through the lens of a subject that girls and minorities already know and are familiar with.
We're getting a much higher sort of response rate to the applications and to the programs than we were expecting because if you look at biology, they don't have the gender gap that we have in computer science. Or at least not nearly as much, and certainly in a place like museum where a lot of these kids have been going on school trips since they were in kindergarten. It's a place that they recognize and that they feel comfortable in.
We're not having this "Oh I'm not sure I fit in there" piece. For me, the big question that I wanted to ask with this program and I hope that will be able to publish the results and help others think about replicating is, can we teach computer science a lot like we teach English? Which is a tool to help you do other things.
If the thing that you're interested in is biology or if it's fashion, or if it's art, let me teach you different languages and process season. Algorithms and things that it might be interesting tools for you to do that other thing that you care a lot about. We might be able to really see this change in this diversity of the talent that's interested in it.
This is my big focus, what's got this grand for five years and I intend to take the most of it. But I really want to see this as something that scales beyond just MNH and beyond just New York City. As a way to think about computer science and STEM education. Or populations that aren't necessarily just attracted to the idea of "Let me learn to code, cause I want to learn to code."
Lucy: & Amen to that. If NCWIT can help you, we are here.
Christina: & Excellent.
Lucy: & We are absolutely here.
Larry: & Wow I'll tell you, that's a fact. We'll have your interview course up on our home page at w3w3.com, in our blog, in our podcast directory, in our newsletter. Most of all, go to ncwit.org and you'll see some fantastic information and stories.
Lucy: & Well, thank you Christina, very much of just great advice. We always love these interviews. We ask the same questions to everybody and they're all different, the answers of course. Very interesting, thank you very much.
Christina: & That's awesome. Thank you, I was so happy to be here. This is such a great initials of you guys have.
Lucy: & Thank you very much.
Larry: & Christina, I'm glad you didn't ask me to carry your bag on a couple of days so...
[laughter]
Lucy: & Well, thanks very much. We're sort of done with the interview now. But I should just reinforce that offer to help, in any way, NCWIT got a lot of research and practice. What you're doing with bridge up STEM is very much in our will house in terms of interest.
Larry: & Yes.
Christina: & Excellent. I will absolutely follow up with you guys on that.
Lucy: & Yeah. We have a K12 alliance and all the organizations are working together in different things. There's no membership fees for non‑profits so could be some natural affinities there.
Christina: & Excellent. I will look into that more when I'm back from Nepal.
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Christina WallaceInterview Summary:& Christina Wallace is the founding director of Bridge Up: STEM which is a new educational initiative at the American Museum of Natural History focused on introducing girls and minorities to computer science. Before her current role at BridgeUp: STEM, Christina was a Vice President at Startup Institute, the Founder and CEO of venture-backed e-commerce brand Quincy Apparel, a management consultant with the Boston Consulting Group, and an arts manager at the Metropolitan Opera. "I'm excited for project STEM," said Wallace about her program. "This could be a program that isn't just something we run at the American Museum of National History. But something that other museums and other informal learning areas might be able to adapt. One thing that we're already seeing in our early development here, is that by teaching coding in computer science through the lens of a subject that girls and minorities already know and are familiar with."
Release Date:& March 22, 2015Interviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 27:52https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/christina.wallace-bridgeup.stem_01-19-2015.mp3Interview with Carol Clarkhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-carol-clark
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-22527"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/carol.clark_10-6-14.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Terry Morreale: &nbsp;Hi, this is Terry Morreale from the National Centre for Women in Information Technology, or NCWIT. This is part of a series of interviews with fabulous entrepreneurs, with women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors. All of whom have incredible stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hello Larry, how are you?
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;I'm magnificent and I'm so happy to be here today. At w3w3.com we record all business people from all over the place. We really like to focus in on entrepreneurs. You can listen to this interview and others on w3w3.com.
Terry: &nbsp;Great, thank you. Today we are interviewing an entrepreneur with more than 35 years experience in the startup community. Carol Clark is the co‑founder of "Mind Leaders Inc" and served as the CEO and chair of the board of the company from its formation in 1981, until "Mind Leaders" was acquired in 2007. "Mind Leaders Inc." integrates talent management and e‑learning resources to deliver development solutions from a single platform.
Carol currently serves on the board of directors at "Ed Map Inc," "Sia Linden Associates Corp," and "Ecolibrium Solar Inc," on the investment committee for the "Patient Capital Collaborative 13" fund, and on the executive committee of the "Ohio TechAngels Fund." Before we start Carol, tell us a little bit more about your current endeavors.
Carol Clark: &nbsp;What I'm doing now, is I'm an active "Angel" investor. That means that we invest in young companies. I am on the patient collaborative investment committee. That's part of investors circle. We focus on impact investing. The "Ohio TechAngels" group in Ohio, naturally, we focus on medical devices, technology, Ohio company.
I'm also a member of Golden Seeds, which is an "Angel" group in New York City. They have chapters on the west coast and in Texas. Two years ago I founded "X Squared Angels" which is a group here in Columbus, very much after "Golden Seeds." We focus on women led companies. Women companies can be anywhere in the country, actually anywhere in the world, because you apply to us from Canada, and it can be in any market.
We're just trying to invest in companies that have women in management teams. Being an active angel investor is a lot of work [laughs] . But it's also a lot of fun. You get to meet the investors, you hear all kinds of interesting ideas for companies, and you meet lots and lots of interesting people. That's what I'm doing now.
Terry: &nbsp;Sounds fun.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow, I love it.
Terry: &nbsp;[laughs] Tell us how you first got into technology, Carol?
Carol: &nbsp;I was a math major in college. Way back in the dark ages. When I graduated from college, the large companies would go around and interview at the liberal arts schools. "IBM" was one of the companies that came to interview at Gettysburg College where I graduated. I thought, "well, that sounds like fun, computers," and I wanted to go to New York City anyway. Back then they gave you a programmer's aptitude test.
If you passed the test and some series of interviews, then they offered you a job. I started as what was called the system service representative, which ultimately became a systems engineer in one of the Manhattan offices in New York City. I got into computers in the early 60s, really when computers were just starting.
Terry: &nbsp;Wow.
Carol: &nbsp;It was just so much fun.
Terry: &nbsp;That's fantastic. What technologies do you think are cool today?
Carol: &nbsp;I never thought I would say this, but I think "Twitter" is. When "Twitter" first came out, I thought, "this is technology looking for some application. What is anybody going to do with it?" What I think has happened is that "Twitter" is really our news of the world today. Nothing really can happen in the world without somebody knowing it, and somebody sending it through their cell phone over "Twitter".
I think "Twitter" is really cool. That would be one thing. The viruses that are popping up all the time are really cool. You write a program and I look at the program, and I say "well, I can get around your program" until I do, and then you look at what I've done and you get around it. This particular thing is what's pushing the programming world today. It certainly doesn't have nice ramifications, but I think it's really cool technology.
The third and final thing would be what they're doing with Quantum calculations. Encryption on the web, the World Wide Web, is done with RSA encryption. It basically is just multiplying random numbers together, prime numbers together, and then encrypting them through an algorithm. It's done once each time data is sent. Nobody can break it, because it takes too long to re‑engineer that calculation.
What they're doing now is they're using quantum mechanics to calculate in a different way, and they're going to be able to encrypt everything a whole lot faster. I just saw a TV show on it about two weeks ago and I thought it was really cool. They're my three things.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow. We'll have to look that up for sure. Just to switch gears, Carol, a little bit, why are you an entrepreneur? What about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Carol: &nbsp;I think people become entrepreneurs because they want to control their own time, control what they do. What you quickly find out is, many people say, "I'd like to become an entrepreneur because I'm my own boss." You're never your own boss. When you're an entrepreneur, your customers are your own boss. I really liked having the customer as my boss because there were very few politics involved in it [laughs] .
They either like what you're doing and they pay you money for it, or they don't. It's a very simple, nice relationship. I thought I would be an entrepreneur because you can control your own time, you can create what you want and make it as good as you want it, but what I really found that I liked was the fact that you're working for your customers. They're leading the way. I liked that a lot.
Larry: &nbsp;With that kind of comment about the time, that you mentioned, you ought to teach a class on time management.
[laughter]
Carol: &nbsp;I would probably make people crazy. I already make my husband crazy with my time management.
[laughter]
Terry: &nbsp;Carol, tell us who influenced or supported you to take this career path? Role models, mentors, people like that?
Carol: &nbsp;I gave this one a little bit of thought. I would put my parents first. They really provide the unconditional love, self confidence, and they say you can do whatever you want. My mother did that. My father also did that. My father would say, "I don't have a clue what you're doing with these computers, I don't understand it.
I don't know what it is, but I'm all for it" [laughs] . He built ships, so he had physical things that he created, and for me to go into software was really hard for him to understand. Nevertheless, he supported it and was the cheering section all along the way. Then I would have to say that my husband was there the whole time and said, "just go do it. If you think it's the right thing to do, go do it."
Terry: &nbsp;That's great.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow. With all the different things you've been through, you've got such a fabulous background. Along the way you've had a lot of interesting things happen. What are the toughest things that you've had to do in your career?
Carol: &nbsp;One of the toughest things you have to learn, maybe two things. One is, don't take yourself seriously. Really, nobody's watching. If you fall on your face, nobody's paying any attention. You might feel silly, but I think the first thing is you can't take yourself too seriously. It takes a while to learn that. That would be number one.
The second thing is, if you're going to lead, and if you're an entrepreneur you are going to lead, the first thing you have to remember about leadership is you have to make sure people are following [laughs] . You could have the best idea in the world, but if nobody agrees with you or nobody will come with you, you're not going to get very far.
You have to keep looking over your shoulder to make sure that those people that are every bit as important, maybe more important than you are to the success of the company, are right there with you. Those are the two toughest things to learn.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes.
Terry: &nbsp;Indeed, in life and in entrepreneurship [laughs] .
Carol: &nbsp;Right [laughs] .
Terry: &nbsp;If you were sitting here with a young person today and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them?
Carol: &nbsp;I actually do a fair amount of counseling with people of all ages, but many young people. The first thing I say is, "Is there a market for this product? Is there a large market for it? 500 million or larger?" Because when you start out with this product, you're only going to get a little teeny tiny piece of the market. The market has to be big enough for you to make money doing this.
Number one is the market. Number two is the product. You might think you have the coolest technology in the world, but if nobody's going to pay you for it, you don't have a business. Talk to those potential customers and find out whether they're interested in buying what it is you want to sell. That would be number two. The third one is, you absolutely need to understand the financial statements. You can't go anywhere without understanding the financial statements.
If I say to you as a potential entrepreneur, "OK, give me three years of projections month by month, and make a list of the assumptions that you're making about this business," and you can't do that or you don't want to do that, you're going to really have a difficult time. You have to understand the numbers. You never should run out of cash.
The final thing is you need to understand your own limitations. You need to know what you don't know and go hire it, or find someone who will do those things for you. Those would be the four things. Make you've got a big, big market for this. Make somebody will pay money for this product, understand the numbers, find out what your limitations are, and get a team around you that can make up for your limitations.
Terry: &nbsp;That is wonderful advice. Thank you, Carol.
Larry: &nbsp;Excellent. Maybe I shouldn't even ask this question. It just seems natural with everything you've said so far. What personal characteristics do you think you have, that have given you the advantage as an entrepreneur?
Carol: &nbsp;The first one if a sense of humor.
[laughter]
Carol: &nbsp;I really do. You're going to do things wrong, you're going to do stupid things. You're going to say stupid things. You just have to laugh about it. It's not the end of the world, you're still you. You pick yourself up and you go forward. That is probably the first one.
The next is hiring good people. Those are the only two things. You need to be able to hire people that complement who you are and what you want to do. You're going to make mistakes there too. I guess the rule is hire slowly and fire quickly. I think that's true.
Terry: &nbsp;Carol, what do you do to bring balance into your personal and professional lives?
Carol: &nbsp;I think it's a gift, but I really can turn off the professional piece. I do have four children. They're all grown, of course. Certainly, you have to be able to turn off your professional life when you're raising a family. My husband and I love to travel, so we travel. I love to ride my bike.
I go out on the roads or the trails. I'm not fast. I just mosey along, stop and talk to people or stop and look at flowers or insects or trees, or whatever happens to interest me. That just as peaceful. It is pure joy. You need to have interests other than professional or you make yourself crazy, and you need to be able to turn them off.
Larry: &nbsp;Absolutely. Carol, you've already achieved a great deal. We'll make sure that we have all those links and ideas and stuff up on the home pages and so on. What's next for you?
Carol: &nbsp;I think I'm going to remain an active "Angel" investor. I really do enjoy that. I love, as I said, meeting entrepreneurs, hearing the new ideas, staying current with the technology. I think that's going to be what I do for the next little while. After that, I don't know [laughs] . We'll see what presents itself.
Larry: &nbsp;We'll follow you, so we'll know.
Terry: &nbsp;Absolutely [laughs] .
Carol: &nbsp;Just so you don't stalk me, that's all right.
Terry: &nbsp;We'll follow you on twitter, how about that?
Carol: &nbsp;[laughs] There's a thought.
Terry: &nbsp;Carol, this has been an absolute pleasure, getting a chance to chat with you, getting a chance to know you a little bit better and learn from you. You gave some fantastic tips for our listeners. We look forward to sharing them with our entire NCWIT community, and with the w3w3.com community as well.
Larry: &nbsp;Over the years, my wife and I, we've started 12 different companies, I wish we had know you back then. Carol, thanks. Your advice was absolutely super. Thank you.
Carol: &nbsp;Thank you, my pleasure.
Terry: &nbsp;Have a great afternoon.
Carol: &nbsp;OK. Bye bye.
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/carol-clark">Carol Clark</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p><span style="color: rgb(76, 76, 75); font-family: myriad-pro, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;">Carol Clark, co-founder of MindLeaders Inc., </span><a href="http://www.mindleaders.com/" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(4, 70, 108); transition: color 0.15s; -webkit-transition: color 0.15s; font-family: myriad-pro, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;">www.mindleaders.com</a><span style="color: rgb(76, 76, 75); font-family: myriad-pro, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;">, served as CEO/Chair of the Board of the company from its formation in 1981 until MindLeaders was acquired in 2007. Carol has more than 35 years of management experience as well as an extensive background in computer programming, software development and education. </span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(76, 76, 75); font-family: myriad-pro, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.538em;">Carol currently serves on the Board of Directors of EdMap Inc., Sealund and Associates Corp. and Ecolibrium Solar Inc.; on the Investment Committee for the Patient Capital Collaborative ’13 Fund; and on the Executive Committee of the Ohio TechAngels Funds. "</span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(76, 76, 75); font-family: myriad-pro, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.538em;">When you're an entrepreneur, your customers are your own boss. I really liked having the customer as my boss because there were very few politics involved in it." said Carol about what it means to be an entrepreneur. "</span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(76, 76, 75); font-family: myriad-pro, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.538em;">They either like what you're doing and they pay you money for it, or they don't. It's a very simple, nice relationship." </span></p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2014-11-19T00:00:00-07:00">November 19, 2014</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Terry Morreale and Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">15:10</div></div></div>Mon, 19 Jan 2015 20:03:35 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-carol-clark#comments15:10Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Terry Morreale: & Hi, this is Terry Morreale from the National Centre for Women in Information Technology, or NCWIT. This is part of a series of interviews with fabulous entrepreneurs, with w...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Terry Morreale: & Hi, this is Terry Morreale from the National Centre for Women in Information Technology, or NCWIT. This is part of a series of interviews with fabulous entrepreneurs, with women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors. All of whom have incredible stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hello Larry, how are you?
Larry Nelson: & I'm magnificent and I'm so happy to be here today. At w3w3.com we record all business people from all over the place. We really like to focus in on entrepreneurs. You can listen to this interview and others on w3w3.com.
Terry: & Great, thank you. Today we are interviewing an entrepreneur with more than 35 years experience in the startup community. Carol Clark is the co‑founder of "Mind Leaders Inc" and served as the CEO and chair of the board of the company from its formation in 1981, until "Mind Leaders" was acquired in 2007. "Mind Leaders Inc." integrates talent management and e‑learning resources to deliver development solutions from a single platform.
Carol currently serves on the board of directors at "Ed Map Inc," "Sia Linden Associates Corp," and "Ecolibrium Solar Inc," on the investment committee for the "Patient Capital Collaborative 13" fund, and on the executive committee of the "Ohio TechAngels Fund." Before we start Carol, tell us a little bit more about your current endeavors.
Carol Clark: & What I'm doing now, is I'm an active "Angel" investor. That means that we invest in young companies. I am on the patient collaborative investment committee. That's part of investors circle. We focus on impact investing. The "Ohio TechAngels" group in Ohio, naturally, we focus on medical devices, technology, Ohio company.
I'm also a member of Golden Seeds, which is an "Angel" group in New York City. They have chapters on the west coast and in Texas. Two years ago I founded "X Squared Angels" which is a group here in Columbus, very much after "Golden Seeds." We focus on women led companies. Women companies can be anywhere in the country, actually anywhere in the world, because you apply to us from Canada, and it can be in any market.
We're just trying to invest in companies that have women in management teams. Being an active angel investor is a lot of work [laughs] . But it's also a lot of fun. You get to meet the investors, you hear all kinds of interesting ideas for companies, and you meet lots and lots of interesting people. That's what I'm doing now.
Terry: & Sounds fun.
Larry: & Wow, I love it.
Terry: & [laughs] Tell us how you first got into technology, Carol?
Carol: & I was a math major in college. Way back in the dark ages. When I graduated from college, the large companies would go around and interview at the liberal arts schools. "IBM" was one of the companies that came to interview at Gettysburg College where I graduated. I thought, "well, that sounds like fun, computers," and I wanted to go to New York City anyway. Back then they gave you a programmer's aptitude test.
If you passed the test and some series of interviews, then they offered you a job. I started as what was called the system service representative, which ultimately became a systems engineer in one of the Manhattan offices in New York City. I got into computers in the early 60s, really when computers were just starting.
Terry: & Wow.
Carol: & It was just so much fun.
Terry: & That's fantastic. What technologies do you think are cool today?
Carol: & I never thought I would say this, but I think "Twitter" is. When "Twitter" first came out, I thought, "this is technology looking for some application. What is anybody going to do with it?" What I think has happened is that "Twitter" is really our news of the world today. Nothing really can happen in the world without somebody knowing it, and somebody sending it through their cell phone over "Twitter".
I think "Twitter" is really cool. That would be one thing. The viruses that are popping up all the time are really cool. You write a program and I look at the program, and I say "well, I can get around your program" until I do, and then you look at what I've done and you get around it. This particular thing is what's pushing the programming world today. It certainly doesn't have nice ramifications, but I think it's really cool technology.
The third and final thing would be what they're doing with Quantum calculations. Encryption on the web, the World Wide Web, is done with RSA encryption. It basically is just multiplying random numbers together, prime numbers together, and then encrypting them through an algorithm. It's done once each time data is sent. Nobody can break it, because it takes too long to re‑engineer that calculation.
What they're doing now is they're using quantum mechanics to calculate in a different way, and they're going to be able to encrypt everything a whole lot faster. I just saw a TV show on it about two weeks ago and I thought it was really cool. They're my three things.
Larry: & Wow. We'll have to look that up for sure. Just to switch gears, Carol, a little bit, why are you an entrepreneur? What about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Carol: & I think people become entrepreneurs because they want to control their own time, control what they do. What you quickly find out is, many people say, "I'd like to become an entrepreneur because I'm my own boss." You're never your own boss. When you're an entrepreneur, your customers are your own boss. I really liked having the customer as my boss because there were very few politics involved in it [laughs] .
They either like what you're doing and they pay you money for it, or they don't. It's a very simple, nice relationship. I thought I would be an entrepreneur because you can control your own time, you can create what you want and make it as good as you want it, but what I really found that I liked was the fact that you're working for your customers. They're leading the way. I liked that a lot.
Larry: & With that kind of comment about the time, that you mentioned, you ought to teach a class on time management.
[laughter]
Carol: & I would probably make people crazy. I already make my husband crazy with my time management.
[laughter]
Terry: & Carol, tell us who influenced or supported you to take this career path? Role models, mentors, people like that?
Carol: & I gave this one a little bit of thought. I would put my parents first. They really provide the unconditional love, self confidence, and they say you can do whatever you want. My mother did that. My father also did that. My father would say, "I don't have a clue what you're doing with these computers, I don't understand it.
I don't know what it is, but I'm all for it" [laughs] . He built ships, so he had physical things that he created, and for me to go into software was really hard for him to understand. Nevertheless, he supported it and was the cheering section all along the way. Then I would have to say that my husband was there the whole time and said, "just go do it. If you think it's the right thing to do, go do it."
Terry: & That's great.
Larry: & Wow. With all the different things you've been through, you've got such a fabulous background. Along the way you've had a lot of interesting things happen. What are the toughest things that you've had to do in your career?
Carol: & One of the toughest things you have to learn, maybe two things. One is, don't take yourself seriously. Really, nobody's watching. If you fall on your face, nobody's paying any attention. You might feel silly, but I think the first thing is you can't take yourself too seriously. It takes a while to learn that. That would be number one.
The second thing is, if you're going to lead, and if you're an entrepreneur you are going to lead, the first thing you have to remember about leadership is you have to make sure people are following [laughs] . You could have the best idea in the world, but if nobody agrees with you or nobody will come with you, you're not going to get very far.
You have to keep looking over your shoulder to make sure that those people that are every bit as important, maybe more important than you are to the success of the company, are right there with you. Those are the two toughest things to learn.
Larry: & Yes.
Terry: & Indeed, in life and in entrepreneurship [laughs] .
Carol: & Right [laughs] .
Terry: & If you were sitting here with a young person today and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them?
Carol: & I actually do a fair amount of counseling with people of all ages, but many young people. The first thing I say is, "Is there a market for this product? Is there a large market for it? 500 million or larger?" Because when you start out with this product, you're only going to get a little teeny tiny piece of the market. The market has to be big enough for you to make money doing this.
Number one is the market. Number two is the product. You might think you have the coolest technology in the world, but if nobody's going to pay you for it, you don't have a business. Talk to those potential customers and find out whether they're interested in buying what it is you want to sell. That would be number two. The third one is, you absolutely need to understand the financial statements. You can't go anywhere without understanding the financial statements.
If I say to you as a potential entrepreneur, "OK, give me three years of projections month by month, and make a list of the assumptions that you're making about this business," and you can't do that or you don't want to do that, you're going to really have a difficult time. You have to understand the numbers. You never should run out of cash.
The final thing is you need to understand your own limitations. You need to know what you don't know and go hire it, or find someone who will do those things for you. Those would be the four things. Make you've got a big, big market for this. Make somebody will pay money for this product, understand the numbers, find out what your limitations are, and get a team around you that can make up for your limitations.
Terry: & That is wonderful advice. Thank you, Carol.
Larry: & Excellent. Maybe I shouldn't even ask this question. It just seems natural with everything you've said so far. What personal characteristics do you think you have, that have given you the advantage as an entrepreneur?
Carol: & The first one if a sense of humor.
[laughter]
Carol: & I really do. You're going to do things wrong, you're going to do stupid things. You're going to say stupid things. You just have to laugh about it. It's not the end of the world, you're still you. You pick yourself up and you go forward. That is probably the first one.
The next is hiring good people. Those are the only two things. You need to be able to hire people that complement who you are and what you want to do. You're going to make mistakes there too. I guess the rule is hire slowly and fire quickly. I think that's true.
Terry: & Carol, what do you do to bring balance into your personal and professional lives?
Carol: & I think it's a gift, but I really can turn off the professional piece. I do have four children. They're all grown, of course. Certainly, you have to be able to turn off your professional life when you're raising a family. My husband and I love to travel, so we travel. I love to ride my bike.
I go out on the roads or the trails. I'm not fast. I just mosey along, stop and talk to people or stop and look at flowers or insects or trees, or whatever happens to interest me. That just as peaceful. It is pure joy. You need to have interests other than professional or you make yourself crazy, and you need to be able to turn them off.
Larry: & Absolutely. Carol, you've already achieved a great deal. We'll make sure that we have all those links and ideas and stuff up on the home pages and so on. What's next for you?
Carol: & I think I'm going to remain an active "Angel" investor. I really do enjoy that. I love, as I said, meeting entrepreneurs, hearing the new ideas, staying current with the technology. I think that's going to be what I do for the next little while. After that, I don't know [laughs] . We'll see what presents itself.
Larry: & We'll follow you, so we'll know.
Terry: & Absolutely [laughs] .
Carol: & Just so you don't stalk me, that's all right.
Terry: & We'll follow you on twitter, how about that?
Carol: & [laughs] There's a thought.
Terry: & Carol, this has been an absolute pleasure, getting a chance to chat with you, getting a chance to know you a little bit better and learn from you. You gave some fantastic tips for our listeners. We look forward to sharing them with our entire NCWIT community, and with the w3w3.com community as well.
Larry: & Over the years, my wife and I, we've started 12 different companies, I wish we had know you back then. Carol, thanks. Your advice was absolutely super. Thank you.
Carol: & Thank you, my pleasure.
Terry: & Have a great afternoon.
Carol: & OK. Bye bye.
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Carol ClarkInterview Summary:& Carol Clark, co-founder of MindLeaders Inc., www.mindleaders.com, served as CEO/Chair of the Board of the company from its formation in 1981 until MindLeaders was acquired in 2007. Carol has more than 35 years of management experience as well as an extensive background in computer programming, software development and education. Carol currently serves on the Board of Directors of EdMap Inc., Sealund and Associates Corp. and Ecolibrium Solar Inc.; on the Investment Committee for the Patient Capital Collaborative ’13 Fund; and on the Executive Committee of the Ohio TechAngels Funds. "When you're an entrepreneur, your customers are your own boss. I really liked having the customer as my boss because there were very few politics involved in it." said Carol about what it means to be an entrepreneur. "They either like what you're doing and they pay you money for it, or they don't. It's a very simple, nice relationship."
Release Date:& November 19, 2014Interviewer(s):& Terry Morreale and Larry NelsonDuration:& 15:10https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/carol.clark_10-6-14.mp3Interview with Robin Chasehttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-robin-chase
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-20254"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/robin.chase_buzzcar_6-30-2014.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO for the National Center for Women and Information Technology, or NCWIT.
This is part of a continuing series that we're doing of interviews with wonderful, creative, innovative women who have started successful tech companies.
With me, Larry Nelson, w3w3. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;It's my pleasure to be here. We've got about...
Lucy: &nbsp;About a hundred.
Larry: &nbsp;...About a hundred interviews with women in this area. It's very exciting. It's very popular on our website.
Lucy: &nbsp;It's wonderful. We've got a great one coming today. Larry, it's summer. People are hitting the road. All kinds of car trips everywhere.
The person we're interviewing today is a serial entrepreneur in the transportation sector, as well as being one of "Time 100 Most Influential People in 2009." Today we're interviewing Robin Chase, who is the founder and CEO of Buzzcar. Got to love that. Before that, the founder and former CEO of Zipcar.
I'm sure all of our listeners have seen Zipcars out and about. A very novel concept. We've seen them everywhere. Zipcar is an industry leader today in car sharing in the United States, but Buzzcar's only available in Europe. It does some things slightly different, in that it allows users to rent out their own cars.
Larry: &nbsp;Oh.
Lucy: &nbsp;I know. Pretty interesting, right? Has over 5,000 cars in France, with 15,000 users. That's a real novel twist to ride sharing, for sure.
Robin has also appeared in national media on "The Today Show," the "New York Times," and "National Public Radio." Welcome, Robin. Why don't you tell us a little about what's going on at Buzzcar?
Robin Chase: &nbsp;It's nice to be here. The update on Buzzcar is that we have now about 7,500 cars owned by people across France available for rent, and about 80,000 users who are renting them.
What's exciting and fun for me when I think about this company, that the reason I started it is that Zipcar will only place cars where it knows that it's going to get a return on investment.
I was constantly being asked as CEO, and once I left, "How come Zipcar doesn't have cars in my neighborhood, downstairs in my building in my town?" Zipcar doesn't want to take those risks. We only put them where we're really sure that it's going to happen.
What's exciting for me with Buzzcar is, since we're using people's own cars, and if they rent it once a year, they're happy, because they've already paid for it. If they rent it once a month, better. A couple of times a week, best yet. It means we can have cars for rent in places that are any population density.
While we do rent a lot in Paris and major cities, it's always exciting for me to see a rental happen in a place where there would never be any car chain or car rental for that matter, because it's such a small location. It's a new way of providing services I'm very excited about.
Lucy: &nbsp;It's certainly very novel. We were just in Europe, my husband and I. We used Uber for the first time...
Larry: &nbsp;Oh.
Lucy: &nbsp;...which is a great way of finding a cab or a ride when there aren't any taxis.
Robin: &nbsp;Both of those services and many others, is something that I see happening now. I think there's a real organizational shift. There's this new organizational paradigm that I've been calling "Peers Incorporated," which is a collaboration between independent individuals or small companies and a larger institution or government of company on a platform for participation.
If you think about Buzz Car, we are doing that. As a company, we made this platform, got insurance through the nice online payments, great apps facilitate everything. We give individuals the power of the corporation and the individuals are micro‑entrepreneurs. I call them auto‑preneurs.
[laughter]
Lucy: &nbsp;That's great.
Robin: &nbsp;Uber is the same organizational structure, in that Uber offers a platform and then people who are current black car drivers or current taxi drivers or current individuals who want to drive their cars as taxis, can leverage the Uber platform.
It's something we are seeing. Other examples would be Arabian Bee. I look at them and I think Google, Facebook, Flicker, and YouTube are all examples of this new kind of business model that is really on the rise and has a lot of great attributes.
Lucy: &nbsp;I'm sure it uses a lot of technology. These kinds of platforms do. Why don't you tell our listeners how you first got into technology, Robin?
What kind of technologies do you like? You've already talked a little bit about these types of sharing platforms but do you see any other technologies out there that you think are especially interesting?
Robin: &nbsp;My other fascination, and also still in the realm of transportation, is I'm interested in mesh networks and how wireless is going to be playing out in the future. What we're seeing increasingly is that we need heterogeneous networks that we don't use.
Lots of healthcare products use different types of...spectrum, and in our cars we use Bluetooth or the upcoming vehicle to vehicle. I see the future as having these heterogeneous networks and a lot more emphasis on WiFi and getting to WiFi through these mesh peer to peer networks.
Two things. One is, I've co‑founded another company in Portugal called "Veniam Works," that is providing vehicle communications for public buses and in ports to the trucks.
If we think about dark spots or urban canyons, having a box in your car in your car that has 3G WiFi and vehicle‑to‑vehicle means that we can use vehicle to vehicle to get to a WiFi hotspot without you having to pay for cellular. It gives you a very low‑cost, reliable network.
Back to my earlier comment, this is of the same ilk, which with mesh networks, which means my wireless device doesn't just send things and receive things, it also can serve as a router. We, as individuals with our own devices, can create a wireless infrastructure on the back of the assets that we've already bought.
We're rolling this out now in cars. Why cars? Because cars are batteries that are being recharged constantly and it's an easier start than in your cell phone.
For me, it's an incredibly exciting part of the future of thinking about infrastructure as being built by stuff that we already own. It's infrastructure being collaboratively built and collaboratively financed. I'm excited also about it because of the resilience and redundancy it gives, so that we don't have to be reliant on an uphill.
Larry: &nbsp;With your interesting background, I have to ask this question. What is it that made you become an entrepreneur, and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Robin: &nbsp;I was talking to my mother about this, and I think that I've always been a person who's very interested in how things work and doing things myself, doing it myself.
Way back, when I had braces, I was constantly asking the orthodontist, "Why are you doing that? What's happening now?" Or the person's cutting my hair, I now am a great hair‑cutter, so say my children.
I've always been a person who wants to make it themselves, to try that. That is a fundamental piece of an entrepreneur, maybe there's two parts.
One is that every problem I see, I'm always thinking about how you solve that problem. Some of them, I put my hand in and try to start it, try to make it. I make things before I buy things. I think I've had that in me for a long time.
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs] Good.
Lucy: &nbsp;She's a maker.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes.
Lucy: &nbsp;A maker entrepreneur. Along the same line of questioning, who influenced you or supported you to take this type of an entrepreneurial career choice?
Robin: &nbsp;I feel that especially since we're talking about women and technology, I am a woman in technology but I'm not an engineer.
My husband is an electrical engineer from MIT and he was my CTO for Zipcar, was my CTO for seven years. He's been my CTO in my later efforts.
I definitely have relied on him to advise and to do the technology piece that is not something that I pretend to have skill in. I was listening to something recently, and there are needs for translators. I would say I'm perhaps a translator between engineers and the common man.
If we think about Zipcar or other things that I've done, I could do Zipcar because I'd never done car rental, and I didn't have any firm stereotypes about how people mistreat cars.
I could do Zipcar also because I didn't know anything about wireless networking, and I had no idea that we were going to have to build our own from scratch, doing a consumer product for wireless that no one had ever done before.
I could see issues that made sense, but I didn't know all the barriers and impediments. In general, I think that multidisciplinary endeavors and diversity of people is incredibly helpful.
I've been lucky that I've had my husband as a great help, and that I've had a lot of advisors. I have my go‑to in the technology realm, and today my inspiration is people who are building what I see as new economy companies.
There's a whole bunch of them and I'm always awestruck how these individuals are breaking the mold and doing brand‑new things that are hard, and some of them successfully. When you see people doing hard, crazy things and succeeding at it, in places where no one imagined it was possible, it's very inspiring.
Larry: &nbsp;Robin, with all of the different things you've done, and doing a lot of business outside of the United States, what is the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Robin: &nbsp;I think some of the toughest things that I had to do are firing people, which is remarkable thing. I've done business issues and negotiations that were incredibly difficult, but having to do negative things with people that you know and like was the hardest thing.
For me, those interpersonal, unpleasant things were harder than technology barriers. I want to give you a metaphor that I came up with talking to my cofounder [indecipherable 10:41] that talks about these issues. I was thinking about what it's like to be a start‑up versus an old company, so here, listen to my metaphor.
When you're a start‑up, you have your hand‑plough in an untilled field that is something completely overgrown. You're there pushing your plough through things and you'll hit pebbles and you'll hit rocks and then, "Darn it!" You hit these gigantic boulders and you have to go round, and you didn't expect it and it's a gigantic, gigantic effort.
You're pushing and slogging and sweating, and it's huge [indecipherable 11:13] , and you have this vision of what you're going to do with this piece of land. Then you look over to the right, and you see the person on their tractor riding high and their field that's been ploughed thousands of times going down the same furrows.
It's like that's the legacy that is [indecipherable 11:32] . And you look to the left and right, and it seems so easy that all the money, and it just seems so clear sailing. In meantime there you are, pushing, pushing tons of instructions. It's hard work doing this, thinking novel thing. You think, "How is that start‑ups ever manage to succeed?"
Lucy: &nbsp;That's a wonderful metaphor, and obviously start‑ups do succeed. Entrepreneurs have great skills and have great advice to give to others, so if you were sitting here talking to a young person about a career, an entrepreneurship, what would you tell them?
Robin: &nbsp;Generally overall, I talk a lot about intellectual honesty ‑‑ there's a lot wrapped up into that. To be an entrepreneur, you are constantly selling your concept, your vision, and you're selling it to prospective employees or selling it to prospective suppliers, to consumers, to investors.
You're hyping it because it doesn't exist yet, and it's always got plenty of problems.
I think intellectual honesty is constantly being aware of what isn't working and what you personally aren't good at, and whether your idea is a worthwhile one.
I think of entrepreneurs, and we can think of people who can waste too much time on bad ideas and ruin their lives or people who don't hire others to match their own weaknesses, so to be very clear on what your own weaknesses are.
I'd say the most important thing to going back to the plough versus the tractor, start‑ups succeed when they are fast‑learners, when they are learning organizations. It still comes back to this intellectual honesty.
When you hit that rock and that giant boulder, recognize it for what it is. Instead of keep pushing into that same spot, figure out, "How do I go around this? What do I need to do? Do I make some serious adjustments?"
Start‑ups can move very quickly, because they hit the rock right away and they can decide and make decisions that same day. Whereas if you think of big companies, it takes some months to realize there's an issue, months for it to go up the ladder, months for people to decide, "What in heck is going to go on?" and correct it.
So this is how I do think start‑ups succeed, is that they can be learning organizations and learn at a pace that is just so much faster than a bigger organization that has bureaucracy and lots of layers of people and separation from their customers.
Larry: &nbsp;With all the different things you've done and your different companies and all, what are your personal characteristics that have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Robin: &nbsp;[laughs] I have to say the luck of fabulous parents and a good education, and the luck of some great genes. I have to attribute a lot of that to things that were outside of my personal control.
To give myself some credit, I am very tenacious and incredibly hardworking, and I do my homework and I work hard at things. I give myself lots of credit for the hard work part.
Larry: &nbsp;Boy, that is for sure.
Lucy: &nbsp;We hear a lot from entrepreneurs about being tenacious, relentless, and resilient ‑‑ not quite the same word. [laughs] But we hear that a lot. You mentioned earlier that you've become quite a good hair‑cutter with your children's hair.
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Lucy: &nbsp;Our next question has to do with this sort of, always talked about balance between professional and personal lives. What are your secrets for achieving it, if it in fact exists? Or how do you manage to integrate the two?
Robin: &nbsp;I think my children will tell you that I'm a terrible balancer. I constantly have my laptop open, and the joking refrain is I'm always saying, "Let me just finish this email, let me erase this one email before I go do something."
[laughter]
Robin: &nbsp;On the other hand, I feel that I have demonstrated to my family ‑‑ I have a husband and three children that are now really grown ‑‑ that there's a real consistency in my values and my interest within work and my personal life, that they are very integrated.
That itself is a kind of balance, that I work on things that I care about, I am interested in those topics, and my values and many of my friends and things I like to do all match.
While I am terrible on the balance and trying very hard to work on it, it feels very unified inside myself.
Lucy: &nbsp;That word, "unified" is an interesting word, like, "integrated." And I don't think we've heard it used before, that unifying family and work. It's interesting.
Larry: &nbsp;I like it. Being a father of five, I like unity.
[laughter]
Robin: &nbsp;I particularly think about values, and I would like business to have the same values as I would have in my personal life. I'm reading right now a book by Michael Lewis called "Flash Boys," and there's this one aspect in it that it's about a young Wall Street‑technology‑guy.
At a certain point, he's thinking he's figured out how everyone or a large percentage of firms on Wall Street are screwing other investors. He has this choice, this young Canadian‑blood, that he can either correct the problem or start making money in the same, very deceptive, horrible way.
He decides to figure out how to correct it and have everyone do things in a less deceptive way, rather than having uncovered the secret and starting to cheat people.
I was struck by that this is a great book, and that this is the subject of the book, and I think, "Wow! Why is it that that's a novel idea, that we begin to know fair value for things that we do, and we are honest and helpful and fair and all of those things?"
That's where this unity‑piece is coming from me. I'd like to businesses ‑‑ I think we're seeing more and more of them ‑‑ that have social and environmental goals that are now very embedded in their mission statement and how they do things.
I don't know if you've heard of this, but there's a new form of corporation called the Dcorp. Dcorp embeds in its mission some social attributes, and therefore we think of companies that always must be following in other shareholders, and what's the best for shareholders.
These Dcorps are required to follow their mission, and they are not for profit, but it's a balance that they have to be a profitable company and they have to fulfill their other mission, goals. I think we'll see more of those.
Lucy: &nbsp;Maybe there'll be a financial investment fund for B Corps.
Larry: &nbsp;All right, let's go. Let's do it.
Lucy: &nbsp;401K.
[laughter]
Larry: &nbsp;Boy, we are certainly very impressed with everything you've been through, what you've done and accomplished, but I have to ask this. What's next?
Robin: &nbsp;Right at this very minute, and at the very minute I'm talking to you, I'm writing, and not writing, a book on this new organizational paradigm that I've been calling "Peers Incorporated," and how it's going to be changing the way we build businesses, the way we work, and the way we use assets.
I think it's kind of leading edge to what I see is a new collaborative economy. That's what I'm doing right now when I'm not doing all the other things I do.
Lucy: &nbsp;[laughs] Fascinating.
Larry: &nbsp;It really does. [laughs]
Larry: &nbsp;It really does, wow. So, Robin, thank you very much. Our listeners will just love this interview and all of your insights into the different kinds of business models and everything is just very interesting so thank you very much.
I want to remind listeners they can find this on W3W3.com, and also on the NCWIT website, NCWIT.org. So, thank you.
Larry: &nbsp;You bet.
Robin: &nbsp;You're welcome, bye.
Lucy: &nbsp;Bye.
Larry: &nbsp;Thank you so much, Robin.
&nbsp;
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/robin-chase">Robin Chase</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Robin Chase is the Founder and CEO of BuzzCar, and also the founder of ZipCar. <span style="line-height: 1.538em;">ZipCar is an industry leader in car sharing in the United States. They provide cars on demand for users with thousands of available cars around the globe. BuzzCar is only available in Europe, but it allows users to rent out their own cars, and has over 5,000 cars in France with 15,000 users. " </span><span style="line-height: 1.538em;">I've always been a person who wants to make it themselves, to try that. That is a fundamental piece of an entrepreneur, maybe there's two parts." said Chase on being an entrepreneur. "</span><span style="line-height: 1.538em;">One is that every problem I see, I'm always thinking about how you solve that problem. Some of them, I put my hand in and try to start it, try to make it. I make things before I buy things. I think I've had that in me for a long time."</span></p>
<div> </div>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2014-10-20T00:00:00-06:00">October 20, 2014</span></div></div></div>Mon, 20 Oct 2014 20:28:25 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-robin-chase#comments19:30Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO for the National Center for Women and Information Technology, or NCWIT.
This is part of a continuing series that we're doing of intervie...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO for the National Center for Women and Information Technology, or NCWIT.
This is part of a continuing series that we're doing of interviews with wonderful, creative, innovative women who have started successful tech companies.
With me, Larry Nelson, w3w3. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: & It's my pleasure to be here. We've got about...
Lucy: & About a hundred.
Larry: & ...About a hundred interviews with women in this area. It's very exciting. It's very popular on our website.
Lucy: & It's wonderful. We've got a great one coming today. Larry, it's summer. People are hitting the road. All kinds of car trips everywhere.
The person we're interviewing today is a serial entrepreneur in the transportation sector, as well as being one of "Time 100 Most Influential People in 2009." Today we're interviewing Robin Chase, who is the founder and CEO of Buzzcar. Got to love that. Before that, the founder and former CEO of Zipcar.
I'm sure all of our listeners have seen Zipcars out and about. A very novel concept. We've seen them everywhere. Zipcar is an industry leader today in car sharing in the United States, but Buzzcar's only available in Europe. It does some things slightly different, in that it allows users to rent out their own cars.
Larry: & Oh.
Lucy: & I know. Pretty interesting, right? Has over 5,000 cars in France, with 15,000 users. That's a real novel twist to ride sharing, for sure.
Robin has also appeared in national media on "The Today Show," the "New York Times," and "National Public Radio." Welcome, Robin. Why don't you tell us a little about what's going on at Buzzcar?
Robin Chase: & It's nice to be here. The update on Buzzcar is that we have now about 7,500 cars owned by people across France available for rent, and about 80,000 users who are renting them.
What's exciting and fun for me when I think about this company, that the reason I started it is that Zipcar will only place cars where it knows that it's going to get a return on investment.
I was constantly being asked as CEO, and once I left, "How come Zipcar doesn't have cars in my neighborhood, downstairs in my building in my town?" Zipcar doesn't want to take those risks. We only put them where we're really sure that it's going to happen.
What's exciting for me with Buzzcar is, since we're using people's own cars, and if they rent it once a year, they're happy, because they've already paid for it. If they rent it once a month, better. A couple of times a week, best yet. It means we can have cars for rent in places that are any population density.
While we do rent a lot in Paris and major cities, it's always exciting for me to see a rental happen in a place where there would never be any car chain or car rental for that matter, because it's such a small location. It's a new way of providing services I'm very excited about.
Lucy: & It's certainly very novel. We were just in Europe, my husband and I. We used Uber for the first time...
Larry: & Oh.
Lucy: & ...which is a great way of finding a cab or a ride when there aren't any taxis.
Robin: & Both of those services and many others, is something that I see happening now. I think there's a real organizational shift. There's this new organizational paradigm that I've been calling "Peers Incorporated," which is a collaboration between independent individuals or small companies and a larger institution or government of company on a platform for participation.
If you think about Buzz Car, we are doing that. As a company, we made this platform, got insurance through the nice online payments, great apps facilitate everything. We give individuals the power of the corporation and the individuals are micro‑entrepreneurs. I call them auto‑preneurs.
[laughter]
Lucy: & That's great.
Robin: & Uber is the same organizational structure, in that Uber offers a platform and then people who are current black car drivers or current taxi drivers or current individuals who want to drive their cars as taxis, can leverage the Uber platform.
It's something we are seeing. Other examples would be Arabian Bee. I look at them and I think Google, Facebook, Flicker, and YouTube are all examples of this new kind of business model that is really on the rise and has a lot of great attributes.
Lucy: & I'm sure it uses a lot of technology. These kinds of platforms do. Why don't you tell our listeners how you first got into technology, Robin?
What kind of technologies do you like? You've already talked a little bit about these types of sharing platforms but do you see any other technologies out there that you think are especially interesting?
Robin: & My other fascination, and also still in the realm of transportation, is I'm interested in mesh networks and how wireless is going to be playing out in the future. What we're seeing increasingly is that we need heterogeneous networks that we don't use.
Lots of healthcare products use different types of...spectrum, and in our cars we use Bluetooth or the upcoming vehicle to vehicle. I see the future as having these heterogeneous networks and a lot more emphasis on WiFi and getting to WiFi through these mesh peer to peer networks.
Two things. One is, I've co‑founded another company in Portugal called "Veniam Works," that is providing vehicle communications for public buses and in ports to the trucks.
If we think about dark spots or urban canyons, having a box in your car in your car that has 3G WiFi and vehicle‑to‑vehicle means that we can use vehicle to vehicle to get to a WiFi hotspot without you having to pay for cellular. It gives you a very low‑cost, reliable network.
Back to my earlier comment, this is of the same ilk, which with mesh networks, which means my wireless device doesn't just send things and receive things, it also can serve as a router. We, as individuals with our own devices, can create a wireless infrastructure on the back of the assets that we've already bought.
We're rolling this out now in cars. Why cars? Because cars are batteries that are being recharged constantly and it's an easier start than in your cell phone.
For me, it's an incredibly exciting part of the future of thinking about infrastructure as being built by stuff that we already own. It's infrastructure being collaboratively built and collaboratively financed. I'm excited also about it because of the resilience and redundancy it gives, so that we don't have to be reliant on an uphill.
Larry: & With your interesting background, I have to ask this question. What is it that made you become an entrepreneur, and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Robin: & I was talking to my mother about this, and I think that I've always been a person who's very interested in how things work and doing things myself, doing it myself.
Way back, when I had braces, I was constantly asking the orthodontist, "Why are you doing that? What's happening now?" Or the person's cutting my hair, I now am a great hair‑cutter, so say my children.
I've always been a person who wants to make it themselves, to try that. That is a fundamental piece of an entrepreneur, maybe there's two parts.
One is that every problem I see, I'm always thinking about how you solve that problem. Some of them, I put my hand in and try to start it, try to make it. I make things before I buy things. I think I've had that in me for a long time.
Larry: & [laughs] Good.
Lucy: & She's a maker.
Larry: & Yes.
Lucy: & A maker entrepreneur. Along the same line of questioning, who influenced you or supported you to take this type of an entrepreneurial career choice?
Robin: & I feel that especially since we're talking about women and technology, I am a woman in technology but I'm not an engineer.
My husband is an electrical engineer from MIT and he was my CTO for Zipcar, was my CTO for seven years. He's been my CTO in my later efforts.
I definitely have relied on him to advise and to do the technology piece that is not something that I pretend to have skill in. I was listening to something recently, and there are needs for translators. I would say I'm perhaps a translator between engineers and the common man.
If we think about Zipcar or other things that I've done, I could do Zipcar because I'd never done car rental, and I didn't have any firm stereotypes about how people mistreat cars.
I could do Zipcar also because I didn't know anything about wireless networking, and I had no idea that we were going to have to build our own from scratch, doing a consumer product for wireless that no one had ever done before.
I could see issues that made sense, but I didn't know all the barriers and impediments. In general, I think that multidisciplinary endeavors and diversity of people is incredibly helpful.
I've been lucky that I've had my husband as a great help, and that I've had a lot of advisors. I have my go‑to in the technology realm, and today my inspiration is people who are building what I see as new economy companies.
There's a whole bunch of them and I'm always awestruck how these individuals are breaking the mold and doing brand‑new things that are hard, and some of them successfully. When you see people doing hard, crazy things and succeeding at it, in places where no one imagined it was possible, it's very inspiring.
Larry: & Robin, with all of the different things you've done, and doing a lot of business outside of the United States, what is the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Robin: & I think some of the toughest things that I had to do are firing people, which is remarkable thing. I've done business issues and negotiations that were incredibly difficult, but having to do negative things with people that you know and like was the hardest thing.
For me, those interpersonal, unpleasant things were harder than technology barriers. I want to give you a metaphor that I came up with talking to my cofounder [indecipherable 10:41] that talks about these issues. I was thinking about what it's like to be a start‑up versus an old company, so here, listen to my metaphor.
When you're a start‑up, you have your hand‑plough in an untilled field that is something completely overgrown. You're there pushing your plough through things and you'll hit pebbles and you'll hit rocks and then, "Darn it!" You hit these gigantic boulders and you have to go round, and you didn't expect it and it's a gigantic, gigantic effort.
You're pushing and slogging and sweating, and it's huge [indecipherable 11:13] , and you have this vision of what you're going to do with this piece of land. Then you look over to the right, and you see the person on their tractor riding high and their field that's been ploughed thousands of times going down the same furrows.
It's like that's the legacy that is [indecipherable 11:32] . And you look to the left and right, and it seems so easy that all the money, and it just seems so clear sailing. In meantime there you are, pushing, pushing tons of instructions. It's hard work doing this, thinking novel thing. You think, "How is that start‑ups ever manage to succeed?"
Lucy: & That's a wonderful metaphor, and obviously start‑ups do succeed. Entrepreneurs have great skills and have great advice to give to others, so if you were sitting here talking to a young person about a career, an entrepreneurship, what would you tell them?
Robin: & Generally overall, I talk a lot about intellectual honesty ‑‑ there's a lot wrapped up into that. To be an entrepreneur, you are constantly selling your concept, your vision, and you're selling it to prospective employees or selling it to prospective suppliers, to consumers, to investors.
You're hyping it because it doesn't exist yet, and it's always got plenty of problems.
I think intellectual honesty is constantly being aware of what isn't working and what you personally aren't good at, and whether your idea is a worthwhile one.
I think of entrepreneurs, and we can think of people who can waste too much time on bad ideas and ruin their lives or people who don't hire others to match their own weaknesses, so to be very clear on what your own weaknesses are.
I'd say the most important thing to going back to the plough versus the tractor, start‑ups succeed when they are fast‑learners, when they are learning organizations. It still comes back to this intellectual honesty.
When you hit that rock and that giant boulder, recognize it for what it is. Instead of keep pushing into that same spot, figure out, "How do I go around this? What do I need to do? Do I make some serious adjustments?"
Start‑ups can move very quickly, because they hit the rock right away and they can decide and make decisions that same day. Whereas if you think of big companies, it takes some months to realize there's an issue, months for it to go up the ladder, months for people to decide, "What in heck is going to go on?" and correct it.
So this is how I do think start‑ups succeed, is that they can be learning organizations and learn at a pace that is just so much faster than a bigger organization that has bureaucracy and lots of layers of people and separation from their customers.
Larry: & With all the different things you've done and your different companies and all, what are your personal characteristics that have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Robin: & [laughs] I have to say the luck of fabulous parents and a good education, and the luck of some great genes. I have to attribute a lot of that to things that were outside of my personal control.
To give myself some credit, I am very tenacious and incredibly hardworking, and I do my homework and I work hard at things. I give myself lots of credit for the hard work part.
Larry: & Boy, that is for sure.
Lucy: & We hear a lot from entrepreneurs about being tenacious, relentless, and resilient ‑‑ not quite the same word. [laughs] But we hear that a lot. You mentioned earlier that you've become quite a good hair‑cutter with your children's hair.
Larry: & [laughs]
Lucy: & Our next question has to do with this sort of, always talked about balance between professional and personal lives. What are your secrets for achieving it, if it in fact exists? Or how do you manage to integrate the two?
Robin: & I think my children will tell you that I'm a terrible balancer. I constantly have my laptop open, and the joking refrain is I'm always saying, "Let me just finish this email, let me erase this one email before I go do something."
[laughter]
Robin: & On the other hand, I feel that I have demonstrated to my family ‑‑ I have a husband and three children that are now really grown ‑‑ that there's a real consistency in my values and my interest within work and my personal life, that they are very integrated.
That itself is a kind of balance, that I work on things that I care about, I am interested in those topics, and my values and many of my friends and things I like to do all match.
While I am terrible on the balance and trying very hard to work on it, it feels very unified inside myself.
Lucy: & That word, "unified" is an interesting word, like, "integrated." And I don't think we've heard it used before, that unifying family and work. It's interesting.
Larry: & I like it. Being a father of five, I like unity.
[laughter]
Robin: & I particularly think about values, and I would like business to have the same values as I would have in my personal life. I'm reading right now a book by Michael Lewis called "Flash Boys," and there's this one aspect in it that it's about a young Wall Street‑technology‑guy.
At a certain point, he's thinking he's figured out how everyone or a large percentage of firms on Wall Street are screwing other investors. He has this choice, this young Canadian‑blood, that he can either correct the problem or start making money in the same, very deceptive, horrible way.
He decides to figure out how to correct it and have everyone do things in a less deceptive way, rather than having uncovered the secret and starting to cheat people.
I was struck by that this is a great book, and that this is the subject of the book, and I think, "Wow! Why is it that that's a novel idea, that we begin to know fair value for things that we do, and we are honest and helpful and fair and all of those things?"
That's where this unity‑piece is coming from me. I'd like to businesses ‑‑ I think we're seeing more and more of them ‑‑ that have social and environmental goals that are now very embedded in their mission statement and how they do things.
I don't know if you've heard of this, but there's a new form of corporation called the Dcorp. Dcorp embeds in its mission some social attributes, and therefore we think of companies that always must be following in other shareholders, and what's the best for shareholders.
These Dcorps are required to follow their mission, and they are not for profit, but it's a balance that they have to be a profitable company and they have to fulfill their other mission, goals. I think we'll see more of those.
Lucy: & Maybe there'll be a financial investment fund for B Corps.
Larry: & All right, let's go. Let's do it.
Lucy: & 401K.
[laughter]
Larry: & Boy, we are certainly very impressed with everything you've been through, what you've done and accomplished, but I have to ask this. What's next?
Robin: & Right at this very minute, and at the very minute I'm talking to you, I'm writing, and not writing, a book on this new organizational paradigm that I've been calling "Peers Incorporated," and how it's going to be changing the way we build businesses, the way we work, and the way we use assets.
I think it's kind of leading edge to what I see is a new collaborative economy. That's what I'm doing right now when I'm not doing all the other things I do.
Lucy: & [laughs] Fascinating.
Larry: & It really does. [laughs]
Larry: & It really does, wow. So, Robin, thank you very much. Our listeners will just love this interview and all of your insights into the different kinds of business models and everything is just very interesting so thank you very much.
I want to remind listeners they can find this on W3W3.com, and also on the NCWIT website, NCWIT.org. So, thank you.
Larry: & You bet.
Robin: & You're welcome, bye.
Lucy: & Bye.
Larry: & Thank you so much, Robin.
&
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Robin ChaseInterview Summary:& Robin Chase is the Founder and CEO of BuzzCar, and also the founder of ZipCar. ZipCar is an industry leader in car sharing in the United States. They provide cars on demand for users with thousands of available cars around the globe. BuzzCar is only available in Europe, but it allows users to rent out their own cars, and has over 5,000 cars in France with 15,000 users. " I've always been a person who wants to make it themselves, to try that. That is a fundamental piece of an entrepreneur, maybe there's two parts." said Chase on being an entrepreneur. "One is that every problem I see, I'm always thinking about how you solve that problem. Some of them, I put my hand in and try to start it, try to make it. I make things before I buy things. I think I've had that in me for a long time."
Release Date:& October 20, 2014https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/robin.chase_buzzcar_6-30-2014.mp3Interview with Moira Hardekhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-moira-hardek
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-18566"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/moira.hardek-galvanize-labs_7-14-2014.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, The National Center for Women and Information Technology. This is another in a series of interviews that we're having with wonderful women entrepreneurs, people who have started innovative companies, doing great things. All the way from cars, to web services, to education, and lots of interesting entrepreneurs in this interview series. With me Larry Nelson, w3w3.com. Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;Hi, I'm so happy to be here. This sounds like it's going to be a real interesting interview. Of course it'll be in a few different places, including on w3w3.com, where you can listen to it anytime you want.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's awesome. Well today, we are interviewing an entrepreneur in the quote "gamification space." The combination of education and the gaming fields, and also, I'm very proud to say a NCWIT member company in our entrepreneurial alliance. Moira Hardek is the president and CEO of Galvanize Labs.
Galvanize Labs is a hybrid education and gaming company focused on teaching critical technology skills. They have produced a number of educational video games and most recently, a game called "Taken Charge." That's a merge of players and very captivating learning stories while teaching them some of the fundamental building blocks of a quality technology education.
Before that, Moira spent a number of years at Best Buy where she created and piloted a program I think many of our listeners will know well as part of the Geek Squad Summer Academy. This was a really great hands‑on technology education camp. It's still going on today.
Very successful, and had a particular emphasis on young women. Before we start with the interview questions, Moira, why don't you give us a little bit about the latest at Galvanize Labs? This is a relatively recent startup, correct?
Moira Hardek: &nbsp;Yes, we're just a little bit over a year old, and our big launch right now is Taken Charge. Taken Charge is all about teaching about the building blocks of technology education. To be able to get into things like coding and game design and more advanced technology topics, we are teaching the building blocks of technology to get more kids prepared to get into more advanced topics of tech education, and we're really excited about it.
Lucy: &nbsp;This is a follow‑up question to that. You're in this hot space of computing education in the K‑12, K‑16 spaces. What are you seeing out there that's going on? Is there a shift, do you think, in the general public's interest of this area?
Moira: &nbsp;I think so, definitely. Technology is everywhere. It's not just an industry and a field to work in, although it's a very, very exciting place to work in. Technology is part of any type of career that you want to be part of. We used to ask that of all of our students when we were taking other types of programs. We've challenged kids.
They would say, "I don't know if I really need to have Tech Ed, because I don't know if I want to be a programmer, and I don't know if I want to be a game designer." We challenge them, we said, "Can you name a career or name a job where you're not going to interact with technology?" You can't anymore, so this is important across any type of career that you're going to have. We think this is just a key building block for anything you're going to do today.
Lucy: &nbsp;We agree. We think too, at NCWIT, that we're seeing a key change here and it's good. It's about time. Galvanize Labs is going to play a huge role in that. Moira, why don't you tell our listeners how you first got interested in technology? You had a technology career at Best Buy, and Geek Squad Academy, and now at Galvanize. Tell us a bit about how you got there.
Moira: &nbsp;First, it's that interest in technology, I think probably the way that you get interested in anything. It was just purely curiosity. Not to date myself, but there weren't computer or tech‑ed classes when I was in school. That stuff really wasn't available, and I think the first computers that I ever saw was Apple IIE's, and giant Gateway towers that were like three and a half feet tall.
I was just curious. I just wanted to know what they were and I knew just enough to be dangerous. I think I'll never forget the first thing I ever did was, I'd deleted a file that was called "AutoExec.Batch" because I was like, "I've never seen that, or used that before, so I can just delete that [laughs] and get rid of it."
Little did I know, you need that for Windows to start. I knew enough to be dangerous. Being dangerous means I did damage. Then I had to learn how to repair things. That's was how I got started...
Lucy: &nbsp;[laughs]
Moira: &nbsp;...was I was just really self‑taught.
Lucy: &nbsp;[laughs]
Larry: &nbsp;Wow.
Lucy: &nbsp;I guess that's how you learn how to repair things. I have to tell you a similar story that when Bell Labs first brought Unix from out of Murray Hill and West of the Mississippi, I was one of the first Unix Administrators on a little PDP server, and one of my colleagues dared me to erase a file that was a root file. To sit up at root and do an RM minus RF star and he goes, "Certainly it won't allow you to erase the whole file system."
[laughter [
Lucy: &nbsp;Guess what? Certainly it did.
[laughter]
Moira: &nbsp;Yeah.
Lucy: &nbsp;Everybody started complaining, "Where are my files? Where are my files?" I almost didn't want to come to work the next day.
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Lucy: &nbsp;It was bad.
Moira: &nbsp;It was the lure of gaming too. I never really had played computer games or anything like that. Someone had told me a story about this game, and it was like, "You can build civilizations." I really like history, and I was like, "Really? You can watch history evolve digitally?" They said, "Yeah, there's this game, it's called Civilization, and it's by this guy Sid Meier."
I was like, "That sounds like the coolest thing." It was the original Civ, but you could really only play it on Linux. I was like, "What's that?" They said, "It's another operating system." I was like, "What do you mean? There's Windows, and what else is there?" I didn't know.
I learned enough, and I remember I had to learn how to create partitions and a parallel boot on my first laptop I ever to at college. It was a disaster, and I totally blew it up, and I think it took me like three months. I finally figured out how to do it, all because I wanted to see Civilization.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's amazing.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes, wow. You certainly do have a very interesting website too, by the way.
Lucy: &nbsp;Plus, I'm sending her all my broken tech.
[laughter]
Larry: &nbsp;Well, very good, excellent, excellent. Oh no, but with all of this in the field that you're in, why are you an entrepreneur, and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Moira: &nbsp;For me, it was just about being able to solve problems. That is just my favorite thing to do, whether it's around the house...Actually, the first thing that I studied in college, and that I was interested in, and I got into it actually in high school, was animal behaviors. I thought that was so interesting because it was very pure and very simplistic.
It was "Why do animals do things?" without the complexity of human emotion behind it, and the drama that we can create, and the circumstances of our situation. It was really just about narrowing it down to the simplest basic need. Problem‑solving became something that was really important to me, and so entrepreneurship became really very natural, because to me it's all about "see a need, fill a need."
It became, "find a problem, solve a problem." That was my favorite part, and I love to do it, whether it's...I think that's probably why I initially started in tech support, and the same way from...I really wanted to see what the game Civilization looked like, and I spent months. I was, "Darn it," I was going to see that game.
I wanted to solve for that. That was the biggest thing for me, and entrepreneurship to me is about solving problems, and I love to do it, and it's why I get up in the morning, is to solve a problem.
Larry: &nbsp;I love it.
Lucy: &nbsp;Along this career path, who has influenced you, what types of mentors or role models?
Moira: &nbsp;Oh my God, I have tons. I think...
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Moira: &nbsp;...the funniest thing right now, the one that everybody gets a kick out of is I am probably some creepy, perfect hybrid of my parents. My mom spent 35 plus years in Chicago public schools as a teacher, and as a counselor, and special‑ed. My father worked in a lot of Silicon Valley start‑ups, back in the day.
To be doing educational start‑ups now is just hilarious for my whole family. It's some perfect kind of...It was very natural to me, growing up around this type of environment. I had no idea what it was when I was a kid. It just seemed to make sense. I never really understood the barriers of big business.
It was just always, "Yeah, if you want to do something, go out and do it." As far as mentors go, and role models, my parents were great role models. I have one sister, my older sister Kerry. I think she's probably got to be the greatest role model of strength I've ever had.
I've spent most of my life looking to my sister and just drawing from her as an example of strength for my whole life. I've had great role models to look to in the industry. A big role model for me was Brad Anderson. He was the CEO of Best Buy for the majority of the time that I was there. People like Dr. Genevieve Bell from Intel, and Jane McGonigal, I think are other great role models.
I have been lucky enough to have some amazing mentors. Probably the most impact was a gentleman named Michael Trebony, and he was my mentor for years while I was at Best Buy, and he's still very influential in my life today. Maybe one of the most important things that he taught me was...There are a lot of really charismatic people out there, there are a ton of leaders, there's a lot of people to listen to, there's a lot of influence.
I think maybe the most important thing that he taught to me, "It's not so much about what people say, it's about who's saying it, and what are their intentions when they're speaking to you" I think that was probably one of the most powerful things he taught me.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow. Who is saying it? Well, I'm going to ask you the question now.
[laughter]
Larry: &nbsp;What is the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Moira: &nbsp;Probably the hardest thing was making the original jump from working for a company, the original jump into starting my own. Working with me was my team, and we've been together for a while. I think that the scariest part, or the toughest thing for me, is the sense of responsibility that I feel for the team that is Galvanize Labs. There's seven of us that make up the company currently now, I'm incredibly close to all of them.
The sense of responsibility [laughs] that I feel for their careers, and their futures, and their families, I think has to probably be the scariest thing I've ever done. I feel so responsible for them. That is the only thing that's ever given me a moment of pause. Usually, I'm pretty risk‑averse, and it really can roll off my back. I probably little bit live on the edge, but when it comes to risking others, that's always the hardest thing.
Lucy: &nbsp;That is hard.
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah, it is.
Lucy: &nbsp;That is hard, and that sense of responsibility never goes away.
Moira: &nbsp;Yeah, it's brutal. [laughs]
Lucy: &nbsp;I know it is. [laughs] You can't just shut it off, and that's for sure. If you were sitting here right now, and giving a young person advice about entrepreneurship, and the things you've learned so far, what advice would you give them?
Moira: &nbsp;I think probably the most important thing is, and I made this mistake early on too, is don't do it alone, and you're never alone. It's funny, for the mentors, and the role models that I had, and the things that you read online. Even to be sitting here doing this interview. I do this interview here as an individual.
I don't want to send the message that I've never done it alone. I haven't. I've always had wonderful support of my family, and my spouse, and my team, and my mentors. I've never been alone. I think, when you look at those that are running companies, and those that you look up to, you're looking at an individual.
You make this assumption, "Wow, look at what they did, and they did it alone, and they persevered." They're not, they're not doing it alone. They have support, and they have help, and there's a lot of people around them. Don't ever try to do it alone. Bring that support with you.
It's OK to ask for help, and it's OK to make sure that you're surrounded. You really want to have that. Then I think the flip side of that is my favorite word, the one that got me through all this was, relentless. That's just what you have to be is just be relentless.
Larry: &nbsp;I like that too. With all the different things that you've been through, and reflecting back, what characteristics do you have that give you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Moira: &nbsp;I probably think I'd have to go back to my parents for that one again. In that when we were growing up, they instilled this great sense of personal responsibility. No matter what was happening. I remember getting in trouble as a little kid. We all did it. I'll admit it. You go to point the finger.
Particularly at my sister, you have a sibling, it was like, "She did it." No matter what happened, they were like, "What did you do? How were you responsible for it, what could you have done to stop the situation from happening?" It was always about personal responsibility, and even if you saw a problem, and whether you chose to act, and it turned out well, or it didn't, or if you chose not to act, that was still your responsibility.
I think the biggest piece about this is really the personal responsibility, so from the responsibility to Galvanize as a company, and the responsibility that I feel towards my team, the responsibility that I feel for the problem that I'm trying to solve. Part of the reason that Galvanize is here is I'm trying to solve a problem, and I feel personally responsible to do that, because I have a skill set that allows me to solve it. That's what brings me here. I think that particular characteristic is what I bring to the table as an entrepreneur, and makes a big difference.
Lucy: &nbsp;It's interesting that you point out this area of personal responsibility when you choose not to act.
Moira: &nbsp;That's a choice too. That's always a big one is choice, and not acting is also a choice. I think most people...I don't know if everybody sees it that way, and again I really felt I had to think how deeply that was instilled in me and ingrained in me is that not acting is also a choice, and you're responsible for that as well.
Lucy: &nbsp;Wow. I think that's so tremendously important, and we don't hear that said very much. There was this one time when I took a leadership course when I was working at AT&amp;T. They were trying to make a point with us, choosing not to act, and not to bring up problems when you see them, and they called it sabotage.
[laughter]
Lucy: &nbsp;I thought for a while "Whoa! That's a strong word!" Obviously, I never forgot it. There is an element of truth to that, when you choose not to act. Maybe not. Moira you have a spouse, and you have other friends and family, and other personal interests, and also a busy professional life. How do you bring balance to all the different things you do?
Moira: &nbsp;You hear the conversations a lot about work‑life balance. I've sat in those seminars too, where we get sent to those when you work for a big company, about work‑life balance. I watched a lot of people struggle with it. I was really confused for a while. I didn't feel it, and I didn't see it. I watched people struggle with it, and I thought something was wrong with me.
Lucy: &nbsp;[laughs]
Moira: &nbsp;I remember talking to my spouse about it and I said, "Am I missing something?" What dawned on me is, and it almost had to be explained to me, was the greatest part about what I'm able to do, I know I'm so lucky and blessed to have this is, what I do for a living is also who I am for a living.
I bring who I am in my personal life to work every single day. Sure, I don't know if I'd sit through as many conferences as I would, if it was a personal choice. There are some [laughs] professional lines you do draw. As far as my day‑to‑day, and I'll admit there are certainly some hundred‑hour work weeks, and there have been some overnighters. This is a start‑up it's going to happen.
The greatest part about myself and my team is what we all do for our jobs is who we are. We have a ton of fun with that. I couldn't tell you where I laugh more. Do I laugh more in my home or at work? I really don't know, because I laugh a lot at both. There's joking, and there may be a little singing and dancing.
You've got to dance it out. [laughs] We just have a lot of fun with it because it's just who we are. For me, I really haven't had to struggle with that. I know sometimes from the outside it can be tough, again having an incredibly supportive family. Particularly with my spouse, who puts up with my really crazy hours.
I think a lot of the patience comes from...I may be on my laptop, and in virtual meetings at two o'clock in the morning sometimes. She can hear my laughter, and so it's OK.
[laughter]
Larry: &nbsp;That's excellent, wow. You've really shared some very excellent ideas, and I have to ask you this. You've already achieved a great deal. What's next for you?
Moira: &nbsp;As far as what's next? It's simple. We like to solve problems, and there will always be more problems, which means more solutions. That's what's we're looking to do. At Galvanize we have four pillars that really define who we are. We think that combining these four pillars can very effectively solve any problem.
The pillars for us are, the first one is data, so being able to collect data and information to properly analyze a problem. We believe very, very strongly in education. It's not just education as in school, although that's what Taken Charge is very focused the education of kids.
Even whether it's educating someone on a product, or learning about your city in which you live, or learning about the smartphone that you have, knowledge is power, so education is big for us. Game theory, for us, is really what drives everything, and that's our third pillar. Game theory is all about creating internal motivation.
It's not just gamification, it's not just having fun, but creating motivation for your user. Then the fourth pillar being a great user experience, and nobody's going to do anything if they have a lousy experience. We think those four things in combination can solve any problem, and we have a laundry list of problem that we'd love to solve. Once we solve this tech ed things, we've got that covered, we'll move on to the next problem.
Lucy: &nbsp;See?
Larry: &nbsp;Yes.
Lucy: &nbsp;It gives me great hope, because we're going to have all of these young people learning these really critical 21st Century skills, and they need them.
Larry: &nbsp;Thank you Galvanize.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yeah, [laughs] thank you. Thank you, Moira. We really appreciate your time.
Moira: &nbsp;Well, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Lucy: &nbsp;I want to remind listeners that they can find these interviews at the ncwit.org website, as well as the wonderful w3w3.com.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes.
Lucy: &nbsp;All right, well thank you Moira. We really appreciate it.
Moira: &nbsp;[laughs] Thanks a lot.
Lucy: &nbsp;OK.
Larry: &nbsp;Thanks a lot.
Lucy: &nbsp;Have a great week.
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/moira-hardek">Moira Hardek</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Moira Hardek is President and CEO of Galvanize Labs, Inc (<a href="http://galvanizelabs.com/" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: normal;" target="_blank">http://galvanizelabs.com/</a>) <span style="line-height: 1.538em;">which she founded in early 2013. Galvanize Labs is a hybrid education and gaming company focusing on teaching technology as a subject, instead of merely a collection of topics. Galvanize Labs has produced the browser-based, technology education video game, Taken Charge (</span><a href="https://takenchargegame.com/#/" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: normal;" target="_blank">https://takenchargegame.<wbr>com/</wbr></a><span style="line-height: 1.538em;">)</span><span style="line-height: 1.538em;">, that submerges players in a captivating story while teaching them the building blocks need for quality technology education. " I</span><span style="line-height: 1.538em;"> have been lucky enough to have some amazing mentors. Probably the most impact was a gentleman named Michael Trebony, and he was my mentor for years while I was at Best Buy, and he's still very influential in my life today," said Hardek about who has helped her along the way. "Maybe one of the most important things that he taught me was that i</span><span style="line-height: 1.538em;">t's not so much about what people say, it's about who's saying it, and what are their intentions when they're speaking to you."</span></p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2014-07-25T00:00:00-06:00">July 25, 2014</span></div></div></div>Fri, 25 Jul 2014 21:34:13 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-moira-hardek#comments18:52Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, The National Center for Women and Information Technology. This is another in a series of interviews that we're having with wond...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, The National Center for Women and Information Technology. This is another in a series of interviews that we're having with wonderful women entrepreneurs, people who have started innovative companies, doing great things. All the way from cars, to web services, to education, and lots of interesting entrepreneurs in this interview series. With me Larry Nelson, w3w3.com. Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson: & Hi, I'm so happy to be here. This sounds like it's going to be a real interesting interview. Of course it'll be in a few different places, including on w3w3.com, where you can listen to it anytime you want.
Lucy: & That's awesome. Well today, we are interviewing an entrepreneur in the quote "gamification space." The combination of education and the gaming fields, and also, I'm very proud to say a NCWIT member company in our entrepreneurial alliance. Moira Hardek is the president and CEO of Galvanize Labs.
Galvanize Labs is a hybrid education and gaming company focused on teaching critical technology skills. They have produced a number of educational video games and most recently, a game called "Taken Charge." That's a merge of players and very captivating learning stories while teaching them some of the fundamental building blocks of a quality technology education.
Before that, Moira spent a number of years at Best Buy where she created and piloted a program I think many of our listeners will know well as part of the Geek Squad Summer Academy. This was a really great hands‑on technology education camp. It's still going on today.
Very successful, and had a particular emphasis on young women. Before we start with the interview questions, Moira, why don't you give us a little bit about the latest at Galvanize Labs? This is a relatively recent startup, correct?
Moira Hardek: & Yes, we're just a little bit over a year old, and our big launch right now is Taken Charge. Taken Charge is all about teaching about the building blocks of technology education. To be able to get into things like coding and game design and more advanced technology topics, we are teaching the building blocks of technology to get more kids prepared to get into more advanced topics of tech education, and we're really excited about it.
Lucy: & This is a follow‑up question to that. You're in this hot space of computing education in the K‑12, K‑16 spaces. What are you seeing out there that's going on? Is there a shift, do you think, in the general public's interest of this area?
Moira: & I think so, definitely. Technology is everywhere. It's not just an industry and a field to work in, although it's a very, very exciting place to work in. Technology is part of any type of career that you want to be part of. We used to ask that of all of our students when we were taking other types of programs. We've challenged kids.
They would say, "I don't know if I really need to have Tech Ed, because I don't know if I want to be a programmer, and I don't know if I want to be a game designer." We challenge them, we said, "Can you name a career or name a job where you're not going to interact with technology?" You can't anymore, so this is important across any type of career that you're going to have. We think this is just a key building block for anything you're going to do today.
Lucy: & We agree. We think too, at NCWIT, that we're seeing a key change here and it's good. It's about time. Galvanize Labs is going to play a huge role in that. Moira, why don't you tell our listeners how you first got interested in technology? You had a technology career at Best Buy, and Geek Squad Academy, and now at Galvanize. Tell us a bit about how you got there.
Moira: & First, it's that interest in technology, I think probably the way that you get interested in anything. It was just purely curiosity. Not to date myself, but there weren't computer or tech‑ed classes when I was in school. That stuff really wasn't available, and I think the first computers that I ever saw was Apple IIE's, and giant Gateway towers that were like three and a half feet tall.
I was just curious. I just wanted to know what they were and I knew just enough to be dangerous. I think I'll never forget the first thing I ever did was, I'd deleted a file that was called "AutoExec.Batch" because I was like, "I've never seen that, or used that before, so I can just delete that [laughs] and get rid of it."
Little did I know, you need that for Windows to start. I knew enough to be dangerous. Being dangerous means I did damage. Then I had to learn how to repair things. That's was how I got started...
Lucy: & [laughs]
Moira: & ...was I was just really self‑taught.
Lucy: & [laughs]
Larry: & Wow.
Lucy: & I guess that's how you learn how to repair things. I have to tell you a similar story that when Bell Labs first brought Unix from out of Murray Hill and West of the Mississippi, I was one of the first Unix Administrators on a little PDP server, and one of my colleagues dared me to erase a file that was a root file. To sit up at root and do an RM minus RF star and he goes, "Certainly it won't allow you to erase the whole file system."
[laughter [
Lucy: & Guess what? Certainly it did.
[laughter]
Moira: & Yeah.
Lucy: & Everybody started complaining, "Where are my files? Where are my files?" I almost didn't want to come to work the next day.
Larry: & [laughs]
Lucy: & It was bad.
Moira: & It was the lure of gaming too. I never really had played computer games or anything like that. Someone had told me a story about this game, and it was like, "You can build civilizations." I really like history, and I was like, "Really? You can watch history evolve digitally?" They said, "Yeah, there's this game, it's called Civilization, and it's by this guy Sid Meier."
I was like, "That sounds like the coolest thing." It was the original Civ, but you could really only play it on Linux. I was like, "What's that?" They said, "It's another operating system." I was like, "What do you mean? There's Windows, and what else is there?" I didn't know.
I learned enough, and I remember I had to learn how to create partitions and a parallel boot on my first laptop I ever to at college. It was a disaster, and I totally blew it up, and I think it took me like three months. I finally figured out how to do it, all because I wanted to see Civilization.
Lucy: & That's amazing.
Larry: & Yes, wow. You certainly do have a very interesting website too, by the way.
Lucy: & Plus, I'm sending her all my broken tech.
[laughter]
Larry: & Well, very good, excellent, excellent. Oh no, but with all of this in the field that you're in, why are you an entrepreneur, and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Moira: & For me, it was just about being able to solve problems. That is just my favorite thing to do, whether it's around the house...Actually, the first thing that I studied in college, and that I was interested in, and I got into it actually in high school, was animal behaviors. I thought that was so interesting because it was very pure and very simplistic.
It was "Why do animals do things?" without the complexity of human emotion behind it, and the drama that we can create, and the circumstances of our situation. It was really just about narrowing it down to the simplest basic need. Problem‑solving became something that was really important to me, and so entrepreneurship became really very natural, because to me it's all about "see a need, fill a need."
It became, "find a problem, solve a problem." That was my favorite part, and I love to do it, whether it's...I think that's probably why I initially started in tech support, and the same way from...I really wanted to see what the game Civilization looked like, and I spent months. I was, "Darn it," I was going to see that game.
I wanted to solve for that. That was the biggest thing for me, and entrepreneurship to me is about solving problems, and I love to do it, and it's why I get up in the morning, is to solve a problem.
Larry: & I love it.
Lucy: & Along this career path, who has influenced you, what types of mentors or role models?
Moira: & Oh my God, I have tons. I think...
Larry: & [laughs]
Moira: & ...the funniest thing right now, the one that everybody gets a kick out of is I am probably some creepy, perfect hybrid of my parents. My mom spent 35 plus years in Chicago public schools as a teacher, and as a counselor, and special‑ed. My father worked in a lot of Silicon Valley start‑ups, back in the day.
To be doing educational start‑ups now is just hilarious for my whole family. It's some perfect kind of...It was very natural to me, growing up around this type of environment. I had no idea what it was when I was a kid. It just seemed to make sense. I never really understood the barriers of big business.
It was just always, "Yeah, if you want to do something, go out and do it." As far as mentors go, and role models, my parents were great role models. I have one sister, my older sister Kerry. I think she's probably got to be the greatest role model of strength I've ever had.
I've spent most of my life looking to my sister and just drawing from her as an example of strength for my whole life. I've had great role models to look to in the industry. A big role model for me was Brad Anderson. He was the CEO of Best Buy for the majority of the time that I was there. People like Dr. Genevieve Bell from Intel, and Jane McGonigal, I think are other great role models.
I have been lucky enough to have some amazing mentors. Probably the most impact was a gentleman named Michael Trebony, and he was my mentor for years while I was at Best Buy, and he's still very influential in my life today. Maybe one of the most important things that he taught me was...There are a lot of really charismatic people out there, there are a ton of leaders, there's a lot of people to listen to, there's a lot of influence.
I think maybe the most important thing that he taught to me, "It's not so much about what people say, it's about who's saying it, and what are their intentions when they're speaking to you" I think that was probably one of the most powerful things he taught me.
Larry: & Wow. Who is saying it? Well, I'm going to ask you the question now.
[laughter]
Larry: & What is the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Moira: & Probably the hardest thing was making the original jump from working for a company, the original jump into starting my own. Working with me was my team, and we've been together for a while. I think that the scariest part, or the toughest thing for me, is the sense of responsibility that I feel for the team that is Galvanize Labs. There's seven of us that make up the company currently now, I'm incredibly close to all of them.
The sense of responsibility [laughs] that I feel for their careers, and their futures, and their families, I think has to probably be the scariest thing I've ever done. I feel so responsible for them. That is the only thing that's ever given me a moment of pause. Usually, I'm pretty risk‑averse, and it really can roll off my back. I probably little bit live on the edge, but when it comes to risking others, that's always the hardest thing.
Lucy: & That is hard.
Larry: & Yeah, it is.
Lucy: & That is hard, and that sense of responsibility never goes away.
Moira: & Yeah, it's brutal. [laughs]
Lucy: & I know it is. [laughs] You can't just shut it off, and that's for sure. If you were sitting here right now, and giving a young person advice about entrepreneurship, and the things you've learned so far, what advice would you give them?
Moira: & I think probably the most important thing is, and I made this mistake early on too, is don't do it alone, and you're never alone. It's funny, for the mentors, and the role models that I had, and the things that you read online. Even to be sitting here doing this interview. I do this interview here as an individual.
I don't want to send the message that I've never done it alone. I haven't. I've always had wonderful support of my family, and my spouse, and my team, and my mentors. I've never been alone. I think, when you look at those that are running companies, and those that you look up to, you're looking at an individual.
You make this assumption, "Wow, look at what they did, and they did it alone, and they persevered." They're not, they're not doing it alone. They have support, and they have help, and there's a lot of people around them. Don't ever try to do it alone. Bring that support with you.
It's OK to ask for help, and it's OK to make sure that you're surrounded. You really want to have that. Then I think the flip side of that is my favorite word, the one that got me through all this was, relentless. That's just what you have to be is just be relentless.
Larry: & I like that too. With all the different things that you've been through, and reflecting back, what characteristics do you have that give you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Moira: & I probably think I'd have to go back to my parents for that one again. In that when we were growing up, they instilled this great sense of personal responsibility. No matter what was happening. I remember getting in trouble as a little kid. We all did it. I'll admit it. You go to point the finger.
Particularly at my sister, you have a sibling, it was like, "She did it." No matter what happened, they were like, "What did you do? How were you responsible for it, what could you have done to stop the situation from happening?" It was always about personal responsibility, and even if you saw a problem, and whether you chose to act, and it turned out well, or it didn't, or if you chose not to act, that was still your responsibility.
I think the biggest piece about this is really the personal responsibility, so from the responsibility to Galvanize as a company, and the responsibility that I feel towards my team, the responsibility that I feel for the problem that I'm trying to solve. Part of the reason that Galvanize is here is I'm trying to solve a problem, and I feel personally responsible to do that, because I have a skill set that allows me to solve it. That's what brings me here. I think that particular characteristic is what I bring to the table as an entrepreneur, and makes a big difference.
Lucy: & It's interesting that you point out this area of personal responsibility when you choose not to act.
Moira: & That's a choice too. That's always a big one is choice, and not acting is also a choice. I think most people...I don't know if everybody sees it that way, and again I really felt I had to think how deeply that was instilled in me and ingrained in me is that not acting is also a choice, and you're responsible for that as well.
Lucy: & Wow. I think that's so tremendously important, and we don't hear that said very much. There was this one time when I took a leadership course when I was working at AT&T. They were trying to make a point with us, choosing not to act, and not to bring up problems when you see them, and they called it sabotage.
[laughter]
Lucy: & I thought for a while "Whoa! That's a strong word!" Obviously, I never forgot it. There is an element of truth to that, when you choose not to act. Maybe not. Moira you have a spouse, and you have other friends and family, and other personal interests, and also a busy professional life. How do you bring balance to all the different things you do?
Moira: & You hear the conversations a lot about work‑life balance. I've sat in those seminars too, where we get sent to those when you work for a big company, about work‑life balance. I watched a lot of people struggle with it. I was really confused for a while. I didn't feel it, and I didn't see it. I watched people struggle with it, and I thought something was wrong with me.
Lucy: & [laughs]
Moira: & I remember talking to my spouse about it and I said, "Am I missing something?" What dawned on me is, and it almost had to be explained to me, was the greatest part about what I'm able to do, I know I'm so lucky and blessed to have this is, what I do for a living is also who I am for a living.
I bring who I am in my personal life to work every single day. Sure, I don't know if I'd sit through as many conferences as I would, if it was a personal choice. There are some [laughs] professional lines you do draw. As far as my day‑to‑day, and I'll admit there are certainly some hundred‑hour work weeks, and there have been some overnighters. This is a start‑up it's going to happen.
The greatest part about myself and my team is what we all do for our jobs is who we are. We have a ton of fun with that. I couldn't tell you where I laugh more. Do I laugh more in my home or at work? I really don't know, because I laugh a lot at both. There's joking, and there may be a little singing and dancing.
You've got to dance it out. [laughs] We just have a lot of fun with it because it's just who we are. For me, I really haven't had to struggle with that. I know sometimes from the outside it can be tough, again having an incredibly supportive family. Particularly with my spouse, who puts up with my really crazy hours.
I think a lot of the patience comes from...I may be on my laptop, and in virtual meetings at two o'clock in the morning sometimes. She can hear my laughter, and so it's OK.
[laughter]
Larry: & That's excellent, wow. You've really shared some very excellent ideas, and I have to ask you this. You've already achieved a great deal. What's next for you?
Moira: & As far as what's next? It's simple. We like to solve problems, and there will always be more problems, which means more solutions. That's what's we're looking to do. At Galvanize we have four pillars that really define who we are. We think that combining these four pillars can very effectively solve any problem.
The pillars for us are, the first one is data, so being able to collect data and information to properly analyze a problem. We believe very, very strongly in education. It's not just education as in school, although that's what Taken Charge is very focused the education of kids.
Even whether it's educating someone on a product, or learning about your city in which you live, or learning about the smartphone that you have, knowledge is power, so education is big for us. Game theory, for us, is really what drives everything, and that's our third pillar. Game theory is all about creating internal motivation.
It's not just gamification, it's not just having fun, but creating motivation for your user. Then the fourth pillar being a great user experience, and nobody's going to do anything if they have a lousy experience. We think those four things in combination can solve any problem, and we have a laundry list of problem that we'd love to solve. Once we solve this tech ed things, we've got that covered, we'll move on to the next problem.
Lucy: & See?
Larry: & Yes.
Lucy: & It gives me great hope, because we're going to have all of these young people learning these really critical 21st Century skills, and they need them.
Larry: & Thank you Galvanize.
Lucy: & Yeah, [laughs] thank you. Thank you, Moira. We really appreciate your time.
Moira: & Well, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Lucy: & I want to remind listeners that they can find these interviews at the ncwit.org website, as well as the wonderful w3w3.com.
Larry: & Yes.
Lucy: & All right, well thank you Moira. We really appreciate it.
Moira: & [laughs] Thanks a lot.
Lucy: & OK.
Larry: & Thanks a lot.
Lucy: & Have a great week.
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Moira HardekInterview Summary:& Moira Hardek is President and CEO of Galvanize Labs, Inc (http://galvanizelabs.com/) which she founded in early 2013. Galvanize Labs is a hybrid education and gaming company focusing on teaching technology as a subject, instead of merely a collection of topics. Galvanize Labs has produced the browser-based, technology education video game, Taken Charge (https://takenchargegame.com/), that submerges players in a captivating story while teaching them the building blocks need for quality technology education. " I have been lucky enough to have some amazing mentors. Probably the most impact was a gentleman named Michael Trebony, and he was my mentor for years while I was at Best Buy, and he's still very influential in my life today," said Hardek about who has helped her along the way. "Maybe one of the most important things that he taught me was that it's not so much about what people say, it's about who's saying it, and what are their intentions when they're speaking to you."
Release Date:& July 25, 2014https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/moira.hardek-galvanize-labs_7-14-2014.mp3Interview with Jules Pierihttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-jules-pieri
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-17007"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/jules.pieri-thegrommet_02-10-2014.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Terry Morreale: &nbsp;Hi, this is Terry Morreale, from the National Center for Women in Information Technology or, NCWIT. This is part of a series of interviews that we are having with fabulous entrepreneurs. Women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors, all of whom have just fantastic stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs.
With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hello Larry, how are you?
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;Hello, I can't wait to get into this interview. We love what NCWIT is doing and we have everything posted on our w3w3.com website. It's all business and of course here we're focused on women IT entrepreneurs.
Terry: &nbsp;Today we are interviewing an industrial designer turned entrepreneur, who was named one of "Fortune Magazine's" most powerful women entrepreneurs in 2013. Jules Pieri is the CEO and co‑founder of The Grommet. The Grommet is a company that launches undiscovered products or "grommets" and helps them succeed. The Grommet is Jules' third start‑up.
She's also an entrepreneur in residence at the Harvard Business School. Before we start, Jules, tell us a little bit about the latest at The Grommet.
Jules Pieri: &nbsp;The thing I'm working hard on right now is we have an annual competition called the Product Pitch on March 20th. Believe it or not, we're in Boston and we have all of Fenway Park for that.
The point that people that listening to the podcast would care about is that we're taking submissions for that. So, if people have an ordinary problem solver or hack that they think the world should know about and if it's in one of two categories, ready for crowd‑funding or ready for market. We're looking at all those submissions starting last night and for the next 12 days.
Terry: &nbsp;Thank you for that information. How did you first get into technology, Jules?
Jules: &nbsp;I guess through the back door. In high school, I simply had that girl disease of not necessarily thinking it was for me but I did keep succeeding whenever I tried.
There was a programming course in the high school. It was new to the school. I just kept acing it and I would get 100s. I would never get 100s on the tests. The teacher decided girls couldn't have 100s so he would actually always find something wrong on my page to make it 99. It was bizarre.
However, I was always top of the class. So, I guess, I knew I had some capability but it still felt back door even through college because I ended up becoming an industrial designer, which is kind of a different flavor of technology.
It's not as hardcore as if I'd studied computer science but you do have to have a really solid base of understanding, particularly in mechanical engineering and ergonomics and human factors and now a lot of new words that people use to describe the things that I had to master.
And so, it felt like a blend of business and technology as a profession to me.
Terry: &nbsp;What are some of the technologies you think are cool today?
Jules: &nbsp;Actually, we're just barely scratching the surface of 3D printing. One of the reasons I founded The Grommet was its existence. I was blown away when I went to a prototype lab at Savannah College of Art and Design several years ago and I saw three 3D printers for rent for $15 an hour.
I saw that and said, "That changes everything," because for me it was something I could directly relate to because I had been an industrial design student. I knew what it was like to conceive of ideas and then execute them, prototype them. I knew how hard it was without 3D printing and that your ideas could even be limited by your ability to actually build the model or draw something.
When I saw that for such a cheap access point, $15 an hour, I was already working on The Grommet but it just sort of made me double down on the idea to see that.
I was reading "Food and Wine" magazine last night and they were giving a big overview to 3D printing and showing some spun sugar creations that were being done by 3D printing. And so, it's infiltrating but it's far from mainstream. It's far from the future of when we'll be able to print products at home, but it's so important to the maker movement, which is where I spend my days thinking.
It's the one I'm probably most excited about.
Larry: &nbsp;I couldn't agree more. Very exciting area. Taking your background and everything that you've been involved with why are you an entrepreneur? And then, also, what is it that makes you tick as an entrepreneur?
Jules: &nbsp;That's interesting. I think there are genetic entrepreneurs who have to be them. They're born that way. And then there are people who almost become it by necessity. They trip on an idea they have to do.
I'm a little of both, more necessity. The both part, genetic part, is that I've always been very comfortable creating things. It's my preference. I've never had a job that any one had before me where I was just repeating something or making it better.
As an industrial designer you're trained to attack the white space, to find the opportunity, to not be intimidated about having to create something from your own observations and insights.
It's a really important discipline in being an entrepreneur that most people wouldn't have. I didn't know I was being taught to be an entrepreneur but I effectively was when I was learning and practicing as a designer.
Having said all that, I wasn't one of those people who walked around saying, "I can't work for someone else." They have to do their own thing. Frankly, I like working for other people because it's way easier than working for myself. I'm a tougher boss.
But the necessity part kicked in over the course of my career. "Why do the best products don't win?" That's almost anti‑American or anti‑capitalism to say that because we think that the market decides and the best products win but it's far from true.
Today and for a long time it's been the case that people have a chance of making the products you see one of two ways. They either are part of a large organization and then they can muscle their way through. It's still not guaranteed but you have better odds. Or there's kind of a lucky break scenario where Oprah calls or something big happens that's outside of your control.
That's a really crummy business plan and it means that a lot of really good products don't see the light of day.
That was a business opportunity that I saw that somebody had to attack. It just had to get done. It wouldn't have been possible without technology. Social media, broadband, the ubiquity of video. A lot of things were happening that enabled the business. Honestly, if I think about it, I saw the problem as far back as the '90s, that the best products aren't winning.
But earlier I was just throwing up my hands until just before this company. I was president of a social network called Ziggs.com. I saw what social media meant. That was one component of the bigger picture that cracked the puzzle of putting the access to these kind of products and the power into the hands of people, the power to decide which companies we wanted to support by sharing them or buying their products.
Social media changed everything. This is really an idea that was enabled by technology and also I have to acknowledge the change of behavior that those technologies enabled. That's the business side.
Me, as an entrepreneur, what makes me tick? I went to a really rigorous high school. I kicked myself out of Detroit. Actually I grew up in a tough neighborhood in Detroit and I went to tough public schools until I was 14. And then I was thinking about applying to an exam school. Public school, my teacher that I loved told me to apply to boarding school so I did.
I snuck, actually, behind my parents' back and did it. Not because they didn't support it ultimately but I didn't want anyone to tell me, "No." I applied. They had to fill out financial aid forms so they found out. I got a scholarship. Even though I was in this really rigorous academic school it happened to have really wonderful art facilities.
And so, I would spend a lot of time making things when I was in school. When I had time at night I would go and weave. I liked wood shop. I liked working in the ceramics studio, jewelry, anything I could make something. It was really important to me and now I'm making a business. I extend that creativity to a whole business model but around me I'm enabling makers as well.
I get a lot of kicks out just watching their creativity and then when I need to actually make something I'll do it at home on the weekend.
It's really the creation of a business model that's very exciting to me.
Terry: &nbsp;I'm guessing that you had some mentors or role models along the way. Did you have folks that influenced you that way?
Jules: &nbsp;I mentioned that one teacher in terms of he gave me a sense of possibility outside of where I could to on my bike, basically, as a young person. And also when I was in elementary school I read every biography and autobiography in my little school library. Those lessons were really important to me. I really did get the sense an ordinary person could do something extraordinary.
It sounds trite, reading books, but I didn't have access to a lot of role models. Nobody in my neighborhood went to college. People went to jail. It was not like I could personally know people who could be my mentors in that environment. My parents were solid and I knew a lot of really solid people in the neighborhood but there were bad things going on around us in Detroit that were going the wrong way. We were part of it.
But then I got lucky. Let's fast forward a little bit to later in my career, in '91, '92. I had a boss land on my head in a consumer products company. I've gone back and forth between technology companies and big consumer product companies. I was working at Keds, the show company.
Meg Whitman, who ended up running eBay, running for governor of California and now she's CEO of Hewlett Packard. She landed on my head as my boss. I ended up following her and working for her directly in three different companies.
I wouldn't call her an entrepreneurial role model. She's not an entrepreneur but I would call her a leadership role model. It mattered that she was a woman, I'm sure, on some level but I had the chance to work so closely with her for so long that I definitely absorbed a lot of her learnings and things that she succeeded. Her techniques and ways she worked with people.
Larry: &nbsp;Boy, that's for sure. I can relate to that a great deal. We interviewed Meg Whitman a number of years ago now. Also, I was born in Detroit so I can relate to what you were talking about.
I know you've been through so many different things and I would say you probably have faced a number of challenges along the way but if you had to pick out. what is the single most toughest thing you had to do in your career?
Jules: &nbsp;It was definitely this business and raising money for this business. I literally walked my shoes off to do that. I have a funny picture. I was near MIT and Kendall Square and Cambridge walking from one venture capital office to another in these Stuart Weitzman platform shoes I had on ‑‑ just those basic black shoes ‑‑ started disintegrating. I'm not kidding.
They just literally started falling apart and this platform was about three or four inches high so that platform going down to one inch high was a big difference.
They were a mess and it was kind of symbolic of what I did. We started the business in 2008 when the sky was falling and we were working on the maker movement before it had words. Nobody had a name for what we were working on and Kickstarter didn't exist yet and 3D printing didn't hit the mainstream press. A lot of things we knew about were just invisible to the average investor and then the average investor was scared to death.
Raising money was definitely the hardest but there was one ...We almost died three times. We almost went bankrupt three times. That's no fun to come up with that plan and just unwinding the business. You just have to do what you have to do.
There was one dramatic moment which crystallizes it. My shoes were a symbol but there was a moment where it all came together in a positive way but it was coupled with a sad event, although ultimately we raised a wonderful investment from a Japanese company called Rakuten, the third largest eCommerce company in the world and the CEO is kind of the Japanese Jeff Bezos or Steve Jobs. Very, very well known.
It's a happy day but at the time I was negotiating that deal my mother was dying. She had colon cancer. This really mystical thing happened. At the moment that she died I got a phone call. I was staying at my childhood best friend's house near the hospital and my aunt called me to say my mother had passed. It was 3:00 in the morning.
I was already awake because there was this tremendous lightning and thunderstorm that only Detroit can serve up. I was awake, looking at that. I got the phone call which is the phone call you might expect but never want and then, since I was awake and had my phone in my hand I hung up, looked at my phone, and there was the letter of intent from Rakuten. All three things happened at once.
It was amazing. I think my mother went up to heaven and kicked up some dust. Said, "Get this deal done. My daughter deserves a break," and it happened.
Terry: &nbsp;Wow, what a story. Jules, if you were sitting here with a young person today giving them advice about entrepreneurship what advice would you give them?
Jules: &nbsp;I think entrepreneurs, kind of nicely, are almost like modern day rock stars or Olympic athletes but there's a lot that goes with being an Olympic athlete. There's a lot of hard work and defying the odds and being the crazy person.
I'd try to help them understand what that looks likes or what that feels like in reality without discouraging them. I'd try to help them find what in their own life symbolizes the ability to be an entrepreneur because it's about taking yourself into some really uncomfortable zones at times. There's not a lot of certainty. There's a lot of anxiety and ambiguity about being an entrepreneur.
Even when you're young you might have to deal with that. If you've made choices or you had a choice and you chose something difficult. It's really hard to go away for college. It's against the norm, against the grain and more expensive or you're going where you don't know anybody. Those kind of choices where somebody else took something more comfortable or if you pick an athletic event or a sport that's really hard for you or you try out for a play.
If you take challenges that you don't have to take and you get through it you realize you're left standing on the other side. You're still alive and all that. You understand you can do it.
I think somebody just thinking they might want to be an entrepreneur wants to look for a bit of a pattern of that in their life, of creating firsts around them. Doing something the first time.
I was the first girl in the Detroit Public Schools to wear pants to school. I was really young and I was just mad that it was freezing cold there and I had to wear a dress. I went home at lunch one day and changed. The policy changed the next day. It was bizarre.
It was just like somebody standing up to it. I don't know. Something collided but even pretty young people have those kind of opportunities to do something different than the norm and claim it as their own achievement.
I'd look for a pattern of that. I think that there has to be a bias for action as an entrepreneur. You have to be able to defer gratification, have good impulse control because you're not going to get a lot of feedback in the near term every day that you're doing the right thing.
If you're doing something really big, really different you're automatically going to get the opposite feedback because there's nothing like it out there and people can't make easy comparisons to match patterns about your idea.
If you're working on something pretty big the world provides a lot of friction for a while. If you're somebody who does not need that immediate feedback, has some inner strength and confidence about your ideas, that helps a lot, too.
Larry: &nbsp;With all the different things that you've been through and the things you've started and faced all different types of challenges what would you say is the single most personal characteristic that's given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Jules: &nbsp;Definitely tenacity because it never was easy for me to do anything I did. To leave home, go to boarding school. To go to school in a tough school where I was worried about chairs flying over my head instead of studying. Everything I did as a young person required tenacity, sticktoitiveness.
There's a lot of truth to that kind affirmism about 90 percent of success is just showing up. That somewhat defined another quality of being an entrepreneur is tenacity.
Terry: &nbsp;What do you do to bring balance into your personal and professional lives?
Jules: &nbsp;What is that?
Larry: &nbsp;It starts with a B.
Jules: &nbsp;I'm a little unusual. I have done two other start ups but this was the first one I started. It's a really higher level of commitment when you start the company and the buck stops with you. I started this company when I was 47. That's pretty meaningful because I have three sons and the youngest was in middle school at that time. I had one in college.
Basically my boys were somewhat autonomous at that time. That made a big difference because, for me, it would have been really hard to do this at the level of commitment I made and the tough economic times where the wind was definitely in our face if I'd done it at an early stage in my life.
I was also more efficient and effective. I had a better network than I did when I was younger. I'm very confident in my decisions. I never do something twice or take longer than I need to.
My co‑founder, similar vintage. We practice divide and conquer. It's an excuse. We never do the same thing together if one of us can do it. That helps, too, to have a strong co‑founder.
But I will say, having said all of that, that it helped having oldere family be more effective myself, being older. I did let the physical side of balance go in 2011. It's 2014 now. It's been a couple years since I had time when I said, "Look, I'm going to re‑calibrate here." It was a pretty traumatic time. It was hard. My brother had just died and my mother was sick.
The economic times were horrible. We had a lot of financial stress from me not getting paid and my husband's work was a little bit dried up for the time.
Here's the kids in college. Huge demands. I even had a little battle with cancer so a lot of really hard things. I just named a grocery list but it didn't seem like a grocery list in those years. I was getting worn out, basically. No better way to describe it. That was an unusual feeling for me.
I did have to re‑calibrate. I did have to focus more on sleep. Really basic things that you could read in any health magazine but basic things. Diet, sleep, exercise. I had to make sure I was covering those really well and I still do. I'm really disciplined about exercise and sleep now. Sleep's a weapon that I didn't really recognize it as a weapon before but I do now.
Larry: &nbsp;You have really been through a great deal personally and professionally. You're on an exciting road right now with Grommet.
Jules: &nbsp;We grew 450 percent last year. We've launched products now that you would know but when we launched them were unknown. Things like Fitbit. Wearable technology is such the rage. We saw the potential of that way before the average person or investor or retailer would see it. We launched an ordinary kitchen device, the SodaStream. It makes soda. It's a kind of eco‑friendly product for your home.
We launched something that you see in every start‑up office on the planet now, IdeaPaint. I'm sitting at the Harvard Business School at their Innovation Lab, the wall is painted like whiteboard. You can write on the walls thanks to these debts and college entrepreneurs.
We are moving from where we used to be which was recognizing what could make a market to now we actually move markets.
Our community's big enough that when we launch a product the sales and social entity trait is meaningful but because we're trusted and respected by bigger companies, like media companies and retail companies our Grommet makers get those phone calls and press coverage and the things that they dream of because The Grommet has lent their reputation to them.
A new product every day at noon with a video story that's been thoroughly researched. We see about 200 ideas a week and we're only working with five. Only five of them are Grommet worthy. We've created a global community of people to submit ideas to us.
This year we have a goal that 30 percent of the Grommets we launch will be totally new to market. Nobody's seen them before. We pick up where crowd‑funding platforms leave off, ready to become a company. We have a goal that eventually, I think it's going to take a couple more years, we'll be a household name so that when somebody has a great idea they think of us first.
It's their first choice for, "How am I going to take this from first production run to a business? How am I going to gain the trust and get my story out there in a way that has enduring impact, that will help my business be sustainable." I want the next thought to be, "The Grommet."
This year we'll grow to have about three and a half million people in our community to see The Grommet every day. One in 150 Americans, something like that, will be part of our community. That's on the supporters side. They're not necessarily makers but those supporters send us ideas.
They use a product they love or they've heard of one and they send it to us because it would be really old fashioned for us to have a giant team of scouts when social media, anybody can be a scout for our business and they are. They can submit publicly to something called our Citizens Gallery. Anyone can see the ideas that we're seeing that come through that particular vehicle.
Others come in through Pinterest and Twitter and Instagram. There are lots of social media vehicles for getting ideas our way but the Gallery on our own site is the one where it's easiest to see some of the ideas coming through. Clearly so. I want to be associated with that. I want to be heroic to makers. I want our business and our community to be heroic to them, to change the game.
It sounds so basic. Changing how products get discovered and sold. It's so generic. The way I describe our business is a product launch platform. Those words don't really mean anything but neither did crowd‑funding or online auctions or Internet radio. If you do something really new you have to invent words for it and then eventually the words mean something to other people. That's the goal.
Larry: &nbsp;That's super. Obviously there's a lot coming up for you in the next number of years. We'll have everything posted on the w3w3.com website, our blog, our podcast directory, and most importantly the NCWIT.org site.
I want to thank you for joining us today, Jules.
Terry: &nbsp;Yes. Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it and we know our listeners are going to be thrilled to hear what's been going on with The Grommet.
Larry: &nbsp;That's a fact.
Jules: &nbsp;Great. Thank you so much. It's fun to take the minute to think about these things and share them. It actually energizes me. I thank you.
Larry: &nbsp;That's great.
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/jules-pieri">Jules Pieri</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Jules Pieri is the founder and CEO of The Grommet. The Grommet is a company that launches undiscovered products or "grommets" and helps them succeed. "Meg Whitman, who ended up running eBay, running for governor of California and now she's CEO of Hewlett Packard," Jules said of one of her leadership role models. "She landed on my head as my boss. I ended up following her and working for her directly in three different companies. I wouldn't call her an entrepreneurial role model. She's not an entrepreneur but I would call her a leadership role model. It mattered that she was a woman, I'm sure, on some level but I had the chance to work so closely with her for so long that I definitely absorbed a lot of her learnings and things that she succeeded."</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2014-04-03T00:00:00-06:00">April 3, 2014</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Jules Pieri, Founder and CEO of The Grommet</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Terry Morreale and Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">25:12</div></div></div>Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:24:22 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-jules-pieri#comments25:13Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Terry Morreale: & Hi, this is Terry Morreale, from the National Center for Women in Information Technology or, NCWIT. This is part of a series of interviews that we are having with fabulous e...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Terry Morreale: & Hi, this is Terry Morreale, from the National Center for Women in Information Technology or, NCWIT. This is part of a series of interviews that we are having with fabulous entrepreneurs. Women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors, all of whom have just fantastic stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs.
With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hello Larry, how are you?
Larry Nelson: & Hello, I can't wait to get into this interview. We love what NCWIT is doing and we have everything posted on our w3w3.com website. It's all business and of course here we're focused on women IT entrepreneurs.
Terry: & Today we are interviewing an industrial designer turned entrepreneur, who was named one of "Fortune Magazine's" most powerful women entrepreneurs in 2013. Jules Pieri is the CEO and co‑founder of The Grommet. The Grommet is a company that launches undiscovered products or "grommets" and helps them succeed. The Grommet is Jules' third start‑up.
She's also an entrepreneur in residence at the Harvard Business School. Before we start, Jules, tell us a little bit about the latest at The Grommet.
Jules Pieri: & The thing I'm working hard on right now is we have an annual competition called the Product Pitch on March 20th. Believe it or not, we're in Boston and we have all of Fenway Park for that.
The point that people that listening to the podcast would care about is that we're taking submissions for that. So, if people have an ordinary problem solver or hack that they think the world should know about and if it's in one of two categories, ready for crowd‑funding or ready for market. We're looking at all those submissions starting last night and for the next 12 days.
Terry: & Thank you for that information. How did you first get into technology, Jules?
Jules: & I guess through the back door. In high school, I simply had that girl disease of not necessarily thinking it was for me but I did keep succeeding whenever I tried.
There was a programming course in the high school. It was new to the school. I just kept acing it and I would get 100s. I would never get 100s on the tests. The teacher decided girls couldn't have 100s so he would actually always find something wrong on my page to make it 99. It was bizarre.
However, I was always top of the class. So, I guess, I knew I had some capability but it still felt back door even through college because I ended up becoming an industrial designer, which is kind of a different flavor of technology.
It's not as hardcore as if I'd studied computer science but you do have to have a really solid base of understanding, particularly in mechanical engineering and ergonomics and human factors and now a lot of new words that people use to describe the things that I had to master.
And so, it felt like a blend of business and technology as a profession to me.
Terry: & What are some of the technologies you think are cool today?
Jules: & Actually, we're just barely scratching the surface of 3D printing. One of the reasons I founded The Grommet was its existence. I was blown away when I went to a prototype lab at Savannah College of Art and Design several years ago and I saw three 3D printers for rent for $15 an hour.
I saw that and said, "That changes everything," because for me it was something I could directly relate to because I had been an industrial design student. I knew what it was like to conceive of ideas and then execute them, prototype them. I knew how hard it was without 3D printing and that your ideas could even be limited by your ability to actually build the model or draw something.
When I saw that for such a cheap access point, $15 an hour, I was already working on The Grommet but it just sort of made me double down on the idea to see that.
I was reading "Food and Wine" magazine last night and they were giving a big overview to 3D printing and showing some spun sugar creations that were being done by 3D printing. And so, it's infiltrating but it's far from mainstream. It's far from the future of when we'll be able to print products at home, but it's so important to the maker movement, which is where I spend my days thinking.
It's the one I'm probably most excited about.
Larry: & I couldn't agree more. Very exciting area. Taking your background and everything that you've been involved with why are you an entrepreneur? And then, also, what is it that makes you tick as an entrepreneur?
Jules: & That's interesting. I think there are genetic entrepreneurs who have to be them. They're born that way. And then there are people who almost become it by necessity. They trip on an idea they have to do.
I'm a little of both, more necessity. The both part, genetic part, is that I've always been very comfortable creating things. It's my preference. I've never had a job that any one had before me where I was just repeating something or making it better.
As an industrial designer you're trained to attack the white space, to find the opportunity, to not be intimidated about having to create something from your own observations and insights.
It's a really important discipline in being an entrepreneur that most people wouldn't have. I didn't know I was being taught to be an entrepreneur but I effectively was when I was learning and practicing as a designer.
Having said all that, I wasn't one of those people who walked around saying, "I can't work for someone else." They have to do their own thing. Frankly, I like working for other people because it's way easier than working for myself. I'm a tougher boss.
But the necessity part kicked in over the course of my career. "Why do the best products don't win?" That's almost anti‑American or anti‑capitalism to say that because we think that the market decides and the best products win but it's far from true.
Today and for a long time it's been the case that people have a chance of making the products you see one of two ways. They either are part of a large organization and then they can muscle their way through. It's still not guaranteed but you have better odds. Or there's kind of a lucky break scenario where Oprah calls or something big happens that's outside of your control.
That's a really crummy business plan and it means that a lot of really good products don't see the light of day.
That was a business opportunity that I saw that somebody had to attack. It just had to get done. It wouldn't have been possible without technology. Social media, broadband, the ubiquity of video. A lot of things were happening that enabled the business. Honestly, if I think about it, I saw the problem as far back as the '90s, that the best products aren't winning.
But earlier I was just throwing up my hands until just before this company. I was president of a social network called Ziggs.com. I saw what social media meant. That was one component of the bigger picture that cracked the puzzle of putting the access to these kind of products and the power into the hands of people, the power to decide which companies we wanted to support by sharing them or buying their products.
Social media changed everything. This is really an idea that was enabled by technology and also I have to acknowledge the change of behavior that those technologies enabled. That's the business side.
Me, as an entrepreneur, what makes me tick? I went to a really rigorous high school. I kicked myself out of Detroit. Actually I grew up in a tough neighborhood in Detroit and I went to tough public schools until I was 14. And then I was thinking about applying to an exam school. Public school, my teacher that I loved told me to apply to boarding school so I did.
I snuck, actually, behind my parents' back and did it. Not because they didn't support it ultimately but I didn't want anyone to tell me, "No." I applied. They had to fill out financial aid forms so they found out. I got a scholarship. Even though I was in this really rigorous academic school it happened to have really wonderful art facilities.
And so, I would spend a lot of time making things when I was in school. When I had time at night I would go and weave. I liked wood shop. I liked working in the ceramics studio, jewelry, anything I could make something. It was really important to me and now I'm making a business. I extend that creativity to a whole business model but around me I'm enabling makers as well.
I get a lot of kicks out just watching their creativity and then when I need to actually make something I'll do it at home on the weekend.
It's really the creation of a business model that's very exciting to me.
Terry: & I'm guessing that you had some mentors or role models along the way. Did you have folks that influenced you that way?
Jules: & I mentioned that one teacher in terms of he gave me a sense of possibility outside of where I could to on my bike, basically, as a young person. And also when I was in elementary school I read every biography and autobiography in my little school library. Those lessons were really important to me. I really did get the sense an ordinary person could do something extraordinary.
It sounds trite, reading books, but I didn't have access to a lot of role models. Nobody in my neighborhood went to college. People went to jail. It was not like I could personally know people who could be my mentors in that environment. My parents were solid and I knew a lot of really solid people in the neighborhood but there were bad things going on around us in Detroit that were going the wrong way. We were part of it.
But then I got lucky. Let's fast forward a little bit to later in my career, in '91, '92. I had a boss land on my head in a consumer products company. I've gone back and forth between technology companies and big consumer product companies. I was working at Keds, the show company.
Meg Whitman, who ended up running eBay, running for governor of California and now she's CEO of Hewlett Packard. She landed on my head as my boss. I ended up following her and working for her directly in three different companies.
I wouldn't call her an entrepreneurial role model. She's not an entrepreneur but I would call her a leadership role model. It mattered that she was a woman, I'm sure, on some level but I had the chance to work so closely with her for so long that I definitely absorbed a lot of her learnings and things that she succeeded. Her techniques and ways she worked with people.
Larry: & Boy, that's for sure. I can relate to that a great deal. We interviewed Meg Whitman a number of years ago now. Also, I was born in Detroit so I can relate to what you were talking about.
I know you've been through so many different things and I would say you probably have faced a number of challenges along the way but if you had to pick out. what is the single most toughest thing you had to do in your career?
Jules: & It was definitely this business and raising money for this business. I literally walked my shoes off to do that. I have a funny picture. I was near MIT and Kendall Square and Cambridge walking from one venture capital office to another in these Stuart Weitzman platform shoes I had on ‑‑ just those basic black shoes ‑‑ started disintegrating. I'm not kidding.
They just literally started falling apart and this platform was about three or four inches high so that platform going down to one inch high was a big difference.
They were a mess and it was kind of symbolic of what I did. We started the business in 2008 when the sky was falling and we were working on the maker movement before it had words. Nobody had a name for what we were working on and Kickstarter didn't exist yet and 3D printing didn't hit the mainstream press. A lot of things we knew about were just invisible to the average investor and then the average investor was scared to death.
Raising money was definitely the hardest but there was one ...We almost died three times. We almost went bankrupt three times. That's no fun to come up with that plan and just unwinding the business. You just have to do what you have to do.
There was one dramatic moment which crystallizes it. My shoes were a symbol but there was a moment where it all came together in a positive way but it was coupled with a sad event, although ultimately we raised a wonderful investment from a Japanese company called Rakuten, the third largest eCommerce company in the world and the CEO is kind of the Japanese Jeff Bezos or Steve Jobs. Very, very well known.
It's a happy day but at the time I was negotiating that deal my mother was dying. She had colon cancer. This really mystical thing happened. At the moment that she died I got a phone call. I was staying at my childhood best friend's house near the hospital and my aunt called me to say my mother had passed. It was 3:00 in the morning.
I was already awake because there was this tremendous lightning and thunderstorm that only Detroit can serve up. I was awake, looking at that. I got the phone call which is the phone call you might expect but never want and then, since I was awake and had my phone in my hand I hung up, looked at my phone, and there was the letter of intent from Rakuten. All three things happened at once.
It was amazing. I think my mother went up to heaven and kicked up some dust. Said, "Get this deal done. My daughter deserves a break," and it happened.
Terry: & Wow, what a story. Jules, if you were sitting here with a young person today giving them advice about entrepreneurship what advice would you give them?
Jules: & I think entrepreneurs, kind of nicely, are almost like modern day rock stars or Olympic athletes but there's a lot that goes with being an Olympic athlete. There's a lot of hard work and defying the odds and being the crazy person.
I'd try to help them understand what that looks likes or what that feels like in reality without discouraging them. I'd try to help them find what in their own life symbolizes the ability to be an entrepreneur because it's about taking yourself into some really uncomfortable zones at times. There's not a lot of certainty. There's a lot of anxiety and ambiguity about being an entrepreneur.
Even when you're young you might have to deal with that. If you've made choices or you had a choice and you chose something difficult. It's really hard to go away for college. It's against the norm, against the grain and more expensive or you're going where you don't know anybody. Those kind of choices where somebody else took something more comfortable or if you pick an athletic event or a sport that's really hard for you or you try out for a play.
If you take challenges that you don't have to take and you get through it you realize you're left standing on the other side. You're still alive and all that. You understand you can do it.
I think somebody just thinking they might want to be an entrepreneur wants to look for a bit of a pattern of that in their life, of creating firsts around them. Doing something the first time.
I was the first girl in the Detroit Public Schools to wear pants to school. I was really young and I was just mad that it was freezing cold there and I had to wear a dress. I went home at lunch one day and changed. The policy changed the next day. It was bizarre.
It was just like somebody standing up to it. I don't know. Something collided but even pretty young people have those kind of opportunities to do something different than the norm and claim it as their own achievement.
I'd look for a pattern of that. I think that there has to be a bias for action as an entrepreneur. You have to be able to defer gratification, have good impulse control because you're not going to get a lot of feedback in the near term every day that you're doing the right thing.
If you're doing something really big, really different you're automatically going to get the opposite feedback because there's nothing like it out there and people can't make easy comparisons to match patterns about your idea.
If you're working on something pretty big the world provides a lot of friction for a while. If you're somebody who does not need that immediate feedback, has some inner strength and confidence about your ideas, that helps a lot, too.
Larry: & With all the different things that you've been through and the things you've started and faced all different types of challenges what would you say is the single most personal characteristic that's given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Jules: & Definitely tenacity because it never was easy for me to do anything I did. To leave home, go to boarding school. To go to school in a tough school where I was worried about chairs flying over my head instead of studying. Everything I did as a young person required tenacity, sticktoitiveness.
There's a lot of truth to that kind affirmism about 90 percent of success is just showing up. That somewhat defined another quality of being an entrepreneur is tenacity.
Terry: & What do you do to bring balance into your personal and professional lives?
Jules: & What is that?
Larry: & It starts with a B.
Jules: & I'm a little unusual. I have done two other start ups but this was the first one I started. It's a really higher level of commitment when you start the company and the buck stops with you. I started this company when I was 47. That's pretty meaningful because I have three sons and the youngest was in middle school at that time. I had one in college.
Basically my boys were somewhat autonomous at that time. That made a big difference because, for me, it would have been really hard to do this at the level of commitment I made and the tough economic times where the wind was definitely in our face if I'd done it at an early stage in my life.
I was also more efficient and effective. I had a better network than I did when I was younger. I'm very confident in my decisions. I never do something twice or take longer than I need to.
My co‑founder, similar vintage. We practice divide and conquer. It's an excuse. We never do the same thing together if one of us can do it. That helps, too, to have a strong co‑founder.
But I will say, having said all of that, that it helped having oldere family be more effective myself, being older. I did let the physical side of balance go in 2011. It's 2014 now. It's been a couple years since I had time when I said, "Look, I'm going to re‑calibrate here." It was a pretty traumatic time. It was hard. My brother had just died and my mother was sick.
The economic times were horrible. We had a lot of financial stress from me not getting paid and my husband's work was a little bit dried up for the time.
Here's the kids in college. Huge demands. I even had a little battle with cancer so a lot of really hard things. I just named a grocery list but it didn't seem like a grocery list in those years. I was getting worn out, basically. No better way to describe it. That was an unusual feeling for me.
I did have to re‑calibrate. I did have to focus more on sleep. Really basic things that you could read in any health magazine but basic things. Diet, sleep, exercise. I had to make sure I was covering those really well and I still do. I'm really disciplined about exercise and sleep now. Sleep's a weapon that I didn't really recognize it as a weapon before but I do now.
Larry: & You have really been through a great deal personally and professionally. You're on an exciting road right now with Grommet.
Jules: & We grew 450 percent last year. We've launched products now that you would know but when we launched them were unknown. Things like Fitbit. Wearable technology is such the rage. We saw the potential of that way before the average person or investor or retailer would see it. We launched an ordinary kitchen device, the SodaStream. It makes soda. It's a kind of eco‑friendly product for your home.
We launched something that you see in every start‑up office on the planet now, IdeaPaint. I'm sitting at the Harvard Business School at their Innovation Lab, the wall is painted like whiteboard. You can write on the walls thanks to these debts and college entrepreneurs.
We are moving from where we used to be which was recognizing what could make a market to now we actually move markets.
Our community's big enough that when we launch a product the sales and social entity trait is meaningful but because we're trusted and respected by bigger companies, like media companies and retail companies our Grommet makers get those phone calls and press coverage and the things that they dream of because The Grommet has lent their reputation to them.
A new product every day at noon with a video story that's been thoroughly researched. We see about 200 ideas a week and we're only working with five. Only five of them are Grommet worthy. We've created a global community of people to submit ideas to us.
This year we have a goal that 30 percent of the Grommets we launch will be totally new to market. Nobody's seen them before. We pick up where crowd‑funding platforms leave off, ready to become a company. We have a goal that eventually, I think it's going to take a couple more years, we'll be a household name so that when somebody has a great idea they think of us first.
It's their first choice for, "How am I going to take this from first production run to a business? How am I going to gain the trust and get my story out there in a way that has enduring impact, that will help my business be sustainable." I want the next thought to be, "The Grommet."
This year we'll grow to have about three and a half million people in our community to see The Grommet every day. One in 150 Americans, something like that, will be part of our community. That's on the supporters side. They're not necessarily makers but those supporters send us ideas.
They use a product they love or they've heard of one and they send it to us because it would be really old fashioned for us to have a giant team of scouts when social media, anybody can be a scout for our business and they are. They can submit publicly to something called our Citizens Gallery. Anyone can see the ideas that we're seeing that come through that particular vehicle.
Others come in through Pinterest and Twitter and Instagram. There are lots of social media vehicles for getting ideas our way but the Gallery on our own site is the one where it's easiest to see some of the ideas coming through. Clearly so. I want to be associated with that. I want to be heroic to makers. I want our business and our community to be heroic to them, to change the game.
It sounds so basic. Changing how products get discovered and sold. It's so generic. The way I describe our business is a product launch platform. Those words don't really mean anything but neither did crowd‑funding or online auctions or Internet radio. If you do something really new you have to invent words for it and then eventually the words mean something to other people. That's the goal.
Larry: & That's super. Obviously there's a lot coming up for you in the next number of years. We'll have everything posted on the w3w3.com website, our blog, our podcast directory, and most importantly the NCWIT.org site.
I want to thank you for joining us today, Jules.
Terry: & Yes. Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it and we know our listeners are going to be thrilled to hear what's been going on with The Grommet.
Larry: & That's a fact.
Jules: & Great. Thank you so much. It's fun to take the minute to think about these things and share them. It actually energizes me. I thank you.
Larry: & That's great.
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Jules PieriInterview Summary:& Jules Pieri is the founder and CEO of The Grommet. The Grommet is a company that launches undiscovered products or "grommets" and helps them succeed. "Meg Whitman, who ended up running eBay, running for governor of California and now she's CEO of Hewlett Packard," Jules said of one of her leadership role models. "She landed on my head as my boss. I ended up following her and working for her directly in three different companies. I wouldn't call her an entrepreneurial role model. She's not an entrepreneur but I would call her a leadership role model. It mattered that she was a woman, I'm sure, on some level but I had the chance to work so closely with her for so long that I definitely absorbed a lot of her learnings and things that she succeeded."
Release Date:& April 3, 2014Interview Subject:& Jules Pieri, Founder and CEO of The GrommetInterviewer(s):& Terry Morreale and Larry NelsonDuration:& 25:12https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/jules.pieri-thegrommet_02-10-2014.mp3Interview with Jenny Lawtonhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-jenny-lawton
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-17004"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/jenny.lawton-makerbot_2-3-2014.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Terry Morreale: &nbsp;Hi, this is Terry Morreale from the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT and this is part of a series of interviews we're having with fabulous entrepreneurs, women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors, all of whom have fantastic stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs.
With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3.com. Hello, Larry. How are you?
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;I'm excited to be here, of course. This is an absolute favorite series that I'm involved with, W3W3, and the fabulous women and the entrepreneurs and the people who are doing things. You can hear it all here.
Terry: &nbsp;Good. Tell us a little bit about W3W3.com because these will, of course, be available on W3W3.com as well as the NCWIT site.
Larry: &nbsp;We'll also have it in our podcast directory so those that listen to it via podcast. We'll have it on our blog, also. We've been doing this since January '99. We are just really excited and pleased that we are focused strictly on business.
Terry: &nbsp;Today we are interviewing a serial entrepreneur who has started everything from bookstores to IT consulting firms. Jenny Lawton is the president of MakerBot. MakerBot is a company that specializes in 3D printers and has been on the cutting edge of the industry since its inception.
Jenny has been with the company since 2011 and has been responsible for the overall strategy and growth of the company, including strategic partnerships, product development, and retail.
Before we start, Jenny, tell us a little bit about the latest at MakerBot.
Jenny Lawton: &nbsp;MakerBot's been busy. We just came back from a consumer electronics show in Las Vegas where we announced three new hardware product lines and five new software products and applications that create a 3D printing ecosystem. We're very proud to finally launch these products after a good, long year of development.
Terry: &nbsp;Tell us how you first got into technology.
Jenny: &nbsp;My getting into technology was, my parents would probably, say a real accident. They don't quite understand it. My father has a PhD in Middle Eastern History and my mother has a master's degree in Sociology so my graduating from college with a degree in Applied Math was a real anomaly to them.
On top of it, my only brother went to art school so to say it was an accident is not an overstatement. All of my upbringing was around Liberal Arts and reading and learning about history and how people work.
When I went to college I started out to become a doctor and I found out when I started my program at school that chemistry was really hard. And so, I decided to do something that I felt was a lot easier for me which was math. That's where I really fell in love with learning about logic and how things work and solving problems, which I think is a lot of what's behind technology.
My entrance into technology came in going to college as a math major. My path to technology wasn't direct. I left college and worked with several engineering firms that really weren't technology based but my third job I started working at MIT Lincoln Laboratory, which is an academic laboratory that's funded by the military as well as MIT where there's a lot of defense work that goes on.
I really fell in love with real time programming. I worked on a radar project. I just loved the way that computers could make things work. That's really where I fell in love with technology and all things...And the Internet and learning how to make things work.
Terry: &nbsp;What technologies do you think are cool today?
Jenny: &nbsp;I still am really connected to the Internet. I know it's passÈ at this point but I left the technology industry for about 10 years. I was both shocked and also really heartened to come back into the world and find out that there have been a lot of advancements in technology but there's still so much more to do.
I love the concept of connecting things to the world and the Internet is just this amazing network. It's built to not break. I love the tenacity of it. I love its flexibility and all the different things that you can do with it.
I really like some of the projects that are going on in the hardware space, the world of robotics and how you can make things be smarter and do more interesting things. Those are the areas that are really intriguing me right now.
Larry: &nbsp;Let me throw a little curveball at you, a two part question. One, why is it that you're an entrepreneur? After all, it's not like it was in the family. And then, also, what is it as an entrepreneur today that makes you tick?
Jenny: &nbsp;I get asked this question infrequently, but I also spend a little bit of time trying to figure out what makes me tick. When I look back at it, I realize that I've been an entrepreneur since I was a little kid. I always kept files on everything. As a kid I was very curious and was always starting clubs and projects and getting people to join in and do things. I, of course, was always in charge. I probably still have some of the paperwork from some very complex clubs that I created in fifth grade.
I started out early and then I did a lot of different things as a kid. My dad was in the military when I was young. After the military he was an academic, so we never really were in one place a lot. We traveled around, so I got to sample the world a lot and do a lot of different things.
I read a lot. I was always into organizing things. I was a really big reader, so I created my own library.
I did a lot of calligraphy as a kid, and I went and sold my services to everyone in the little town that I grew up in. I made all the little signs in most of the little stores and I sold those services.
I had a very, very healthy babysitting business in high school. Not just babysitting, but doing summer camps and organizing things. In middle school, I organized birthday parties for kids.
I was always putting together a concept that would make money that I needed to make. It supported my other interests and habits, but also let me sample the world and see how things work.
I got to interact with selling services to people. I got to figure out what people needed, what pain needed to be taken away from people that I could satisfy. I really feel like, growing up, I was sort of entrepreneurial in most of what I did.
My first four jobs, I was working for someone and I loved my fourth job. I loved working for the CEO of the company.
The CEO was Bill Poduska. He's well known in the Hardware Technology Space. He started Prime Computer. He started Apollo Computer.
He was just so fascinating to me. He talked about being an entrepreneur and what that meant.
I hadn't really heard that concept before that. When that company went under and I started my own company, it took me awhile before I realized that that's what I was, because it wasn't quite a buzzword yet.
I love being able to start something and then see it grow into something that goes somewhere. I realize that that's what fuels me as an entrepreneur.
Terry: &nbsp;You mentioned a previous boss you had that influenced you. What other mentors or influencers did you have along the way?
Jenny: &nbsp;I always have to give my mother credit. I was born in the 60s. My mother was probably one of the first subscribers to "Ms. Magazine," and was always telling me that I could do whatever I wanted to do.
I believed that. I took that on whole‑heartedly and my whole approach to life has always been, I could do what I wanted to do.
It was that concept that my mother taught me, that if you want to set your heart on something and you want to set a goal for yourself, you're the only person in the way of achieving that. Whether you achieve it, or don't, is in your control. I have to give my mother a lot of credit there.
My first boss, Nadine Yates was an early mentor of mine. She was just such a wonderfully well poised woman, who also gave me a lot of latitude in my first job.
She could see that I had a lot of ambition, a lot of different interests. She tried to fulfill those, see what they were and give me lots of different options and the ability to grow and learn in a company, even though I was a young kid out of college, working for a very old‑world consulting engineering firm.
She also gave me the sense that if I put my mind to something, or I set my sights, I could go for that.
Another interesting influence on my life ‑‑ and I wouldn't call it a mentor ‑‑ my tenth grade math teacher told me that I would most definitely fail math because girls can't do math.
[laughter]
Jenny: &nbsp;When I decided to become an Applied Math major, those words were ringing in my head. I was pretty satisfied to go back to visit him after I had become a math major, to let him know that he was dead wrong.
[laughter]
Jenny: &nbsp;Then, Brad Feld, who is a friend of mine, serial entrepreneur, VC, is a long time mentor of mine. I just always love to see what he's doing, and really enjoy the group of people that he interacts and works with.
I've never gone wrong interacting with his [indecipherable 09:22] group.
Larry: &nbsp;I can see now where I must have met you in the past around Brad Feld and his teams.
Jenny: &nbsp;[laughs]
Terry: &nbsp;You'll be happy to know I saw Brad about a week ago and he was wearing a MakerBot t‑shirt.
Jenny: &nbsp;Oh great!
Terry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Larry: &nbsp;Very good!
Jenny: &nbsp;[laughs]
Larry: &nbsp;You know, with all the different things that you've been through, it's really interesting, your history and the different things that you've tried. What is the toughest thing that you've ever had to do in your career?
Jenny: &nbsp;There have been a lot of tough things. Some of them sound trite. Some of them are heavy.
Traveling a lot has always been a tough thing in my career. It's sort of part and parcel to my job, but it was really hard for me being a mother of young children, having an entrepreneurial business and traveling a lot.
It definitely caused a lot of stress in my relationships and just made me tired a lot. Travel is always something that I list. It's something that's just tough and I know it can sound trite, but I think that in some ways it could have been a limiting factor in my career because it's just always been something that's tough.
I sold my company and that's tough. It's like selling your baby to someone. There's this awesome amount of good stuff that comes out of selling a company, whether it goes well or not.
It's a big achievement to grow something to the point where someone else wants to acquire it. Just that milestone itself is a huge success, but it's also a really tough thing to do. I think equally, buying people's companies is also really hard. I love doing it. I love the synergies.
I love all the energy that comes out of it but it's also a really tough promotional exercise to go through. I also think that I had to shut down, not quite shut down, my coffee shop and my bookstore in sort of a down market. That was really tough, really hard stuff to do because you become really very emotionally attached.
Retail is really one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. It's just gut‑wrenchingly hard. You're living on the edge and especially small retail. It's just a lot of hard work. I think that the toughest thing I've done is taken time off.
It's really hard to take time off and getting out of balance and not giving yourself enough time, I think is not good for your career but forcing yourself to take some time off is just an incredibly difficult thing to do.
Terry: &nbsp;What do you do to bring balance into your personal and professional lives?
Jenny: &nbsp;I started exercising, at one point. One of my assistants at my consulting company was an ultra‑marathon runner and a personal trainer. Good for me and also a little scary for me when I realized she was going to take her executive assistant role beyond my scheduling and make me work out and do exercise.
Terry: &nbsp;That's really funny.
Jenny: &nbsp;It was also just one of the best things anyone had ever done for me. It really brought me an appreciation for taking the 30 minutes to 40 minutes out in a day to give yourself some down time to do something just for yourself.
Exercise became an important part of one of the things that I do to bring a little balance into my life. When I had my bookstore and cafÈ, my kid was a rower for his high school at that time. I became very involved with a master's rowing program.
I rowed competitively which was just awesome. I loved being with a group of people who are people I wouldn't normally meet to be able to do something that we all loved, rowing, and being able to do something. Also, being able to compete.
I love getting medals. Going and winning medals was really awesome. That was another way that I brought some balance into my life. I think what I got out of all of that, I just learned some wonderful lessons.
I love being able to take the concept of if you over‑control the oars in a boat, you just don't row very well. If you over‑control what you do with your employees in your company they just don't work very well.
Being able to take those lessons that you get from doing more balance things in your life and bringing them into your business world has also been really satisfying to me.
Larry: &nbsp;I can just tell from the various things you've said and outlined that you've been through, that there are many different characteristics that would give you the advantage of being an entrepreneur. But if you were to pick out a single, most important one, what would it be?
Jenny: &nbsp;That's a tough one. Just one?
[laughter]
Jenny: &nbsp;I think that probably what bubbles up to the top all the time is I just have a natural curiosity and energy. I'm always curious about how something works and I want to know how it works or curious about where something's going to go. Learning more about a topic or how things are going to grow and impact the world.
I'd say the curiosity is probably the single characteristic that would come up, in my life as an entrepreneur.
Larry: &nbsp;I can believe that.
Terry: &nbsp;Jenny, if you were sitting here with a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them?
Jenny: &nbsp;The first advice that I always say is that you don't ever get to be an Olympic athlete without falling on your butt a few times. You have to be willing to fail and try and try again in order to be able to get to the success.
The other thing that I tell people, over and over again, is that networking is key. You need to meet people, understand what your relationship is with them, and stay engaged with people that you meet in the world because you just never know where it might go.
I've found that almost everything I've done in my life has come out of a relationship that I've developed and nurtured and maintained with people. The other thing I tell people, I tell people this in interviews, I tell people this when I'm reviewing them, I tell people this in general, is that, if you're not happy doing what you're doing, don't do it.
Life is way too short to spend your time doing things that aren't satisfying to you. Go out and find out what is that is satisfying to you and then do that.
Larry: &nbsp;That is excellent advice. I have to say just one thing. If somebody's driving down the highway right now listening to this interview in their MP3 player, tell us your website. We'll have it posted in a number of different places too.
Jenny: &nbsp;The website for MakerBot is www.makerbot.com.
Larry: &nbsp;All right. You have achieved a great deal. By the way, you listeners out there, go to her website. It is absolutely excellent. There's a lot to see. It's really fascinating. Now Jenny, you've already achieved a great deal. What is next for you?
Jenny: &nbsp;MakerBot has a long way to go. There's a lot of stuff I'm doing at MakerBot that is really exciting. We more than doubled last year in size. I'm continuing to grow MakerBot right now and leading the next industrial revolution.
Larry: &nbsp;That is one heck of a great statement. Wow, I want to thank you for joining us today.
Terry: &nbsp;Yes. Thank you so much. We appreciate your time and we know the folks listening to this are really going to enjoy it. Thank you.
Jenny: &nbsp;Thank you.
Terry: &nbsp;Have a great afternoon.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes.
Jenny: &nbsp;OK. You too.
[music]
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/jenny-lawton">Jenny Lawton</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Jenny Lawton is the president of MakerBot, a company that is leading the way in 3D printing and printers. "When I look back at it, I realize that I've been an entrepreneur since I was a little kid," Jenny said of when she became an entrepreneur. "I always kept files on everything. As a kid I was very curious and was always starting clubs and projects and getting people to join in and do things. I, of course, was always in charge. I probably still have some of the paperwork from some very complex clubs that I created in fifth grade...I love being able to start something and then see it grow into something that goes somewhere. I realize that that's what fuels me as an entrepreneur."</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2014-03-31T00:00:00-06:00">March 31, 2014</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Jenny Lawton, President of MakerBot</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Terry Morreale and Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">16:43</div></div></div>Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:12:10 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-jenny-lawton#comments16:43Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Terry Morreale: & Hi, this is Terry Morreale from the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT and this is part of a series of interviews we're having with fabulous entre...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Terry Morreale: & Hi, this is Terry Morreale from the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT and this is part of a series of interviews we're having with fabulous entrepreneurs, women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors, all of whom have fantastic stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs.
With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3.com. Hello, Larry. How are you?
Larry Nelson: & I'm excited to be here, of course. This is an absolute favorite series that I'm involved with, W3W3, and the fabulous women and the entrepreneurs and the people who are doing things. You can hear it all here.
Terry: & Good. Tell us a little bit about W3W3.com because these will, of course, be available on W3W3.com as well as the NCWIT site.
Larry: & We'll also have it in our podcast directory so those that listen to it via podcast. We'll have it on our blog, also. We've been doing this since January '99. We are just really excited and pleased that we are focused strictly on business.
Terry: & Today we are interviewing a serial entrepreneur who has started everything from bookstores to IT consulting firms. Jenny Lawton is the president of MakerBot. MakerBot is a company that specializes in 3D printers and has been on the cutting edge of the industry since its inception.
Jenny has been with the company since 2011 and has been responsible for the overall strategy and growth of the company, including strategic partnerships, product development, and retail.
Before we start, Jenny, tell us a little bit about the latest at MakerBot.
Jenny Lawton: & MakerBot's been busy. We just came back from a consumer electronics show in Las Vegas where we announced three new hardware product lines and five new software products and applications that create a 3D printing ecosystem. We're very proud to finally launch these products after a good, long year of development.
Terry: & Tell us how you first got into technology.
Jenny: & My getting into technology was, my parents would probably, say a real accident. They don't quite understand it. My father has a PhD in Middle Eastern History and my mother has a master's degree in Sociology so my graduating from college with a degree in Applied Math was a real anomaly to them.
On top of it, my only brother went to art school so to say it was an accident is not an overstatement. All of my upbringing was around Liberal Arts and reading and learning about history and how people work.
When I went to college I started out to become a doctor and I found out when I started my program at school that chemistry was really hard. And so, I decided to do something that I felt was a lot easier for me which was math. That's where I really fell in love with learning about logic and how things work and solving problems, which I think is a lot of what's behind technology.
My entrance into technology came in going to college as a math major. My path to technology wasn't direct. I left college and worked with several engineering firms that really weren't technology based but my third job I started working at MIT Lincoln Laboratory, which is an academic laboratory that's funded by the military as well as MIT where there's a lot of defense work that goes on.
I really fell in love with real time programming. I worked on a radar project. I just loved the way that computers could make things work. That's really where I fell in love with technology and all things...And the Internet and learning how to make things work.
Terry: & What technologies do you think are cool today?
Jenny: & I still am really connected to the Internet. I know it's passÈ at this point but I left the technology industry for about 10 years. I was both shocked and also really heartened to come back into the world and find out that there have been a lot of advancements in technology but there's still so much more to do.
I love the concept of connecting things to the world and the Internet is just this amazing network. It's built to not break. I love the tenacity of it. I love its flexibility and all the different things that you can do with it.
I really like some of the projects that are going on in the hardware space, the world of robotics and how you can make things be smarter and do more interesting things. Those are the areas that are really intriguing me right now.
Larry: & Let me throw a little curveball at you, a two part question. One, why is it that you're an entrepreneur? After all, it's not like it was in the family. And then, also, what is it as an entrepreneur today that makes you tick?
Jenny: & I get asked this question infrequently, but I also spend a little bit of time trying to figure out what makes me tick. When I look back at it, I realize that I've been an entrepreneur since I was a little kid. I always kept files on everything. As a kid I was very curious and was always starting clubs and projects and getting people to join in and do things. I, of course, was always in charge. I probably still have some of the paperwork from some very complex clubs that I created in fifth grade.
I started out early and then I did a lot of different things as a kid. My dad was in the military when I was young. After the military he was an academic, so we never really were in one place a lot. We traveled around, so I got to sample the world a lot and do a lot of different things.
I read a lot. I was always into organizing things. I was a really big reader, so I created my own library.
I did a lot of calligraphy as a kid, and I went and sold my services to everyone in the little town that I grew up in. I made all the little signs in most of the little stores and I sold those services.
I had a very, very healthy babysitting business in high school. Not just babysitting, but doing summer camps and organizing things. In middle school, I organized birthday parties for kids.
I was always putting together a concept that would make money that I needed to make. It supported my other interests and habits, but also let me sample the world and see how things work.
I got to interact with selling services to people. I got to figure out what people needed, what pain needed to be taken away from people that I could satisfy. I really feel like, growing up, I was sort of entrepreneurial in most of what I did.
My first four jobs, I was working for someone and I loved my fourth job. I loved working for the CEO of the company.
The CEO was Bill Poduska. He's well known in the Hardware Technology Space. He started Prime Computer. He started Apollo Computer.
He was just so fascinating to me. He talked about being an entrepreneur and what that meant.
I hadn't really heard that concept before that. When that company went under and I started my own company, it took me awhile before I realized that that's what I was, because it wasn't quite a buzzword yet.
I love being able to start something and then see it grow into something that goes somewhere. I realize that that's what fuels me as an entrepreneur.
Terry: & You mentioned a previous boss you had that influenced you. What other mentors or influencers did you have along the way?
Jenny: & I always have to give my mother credit. I was born in the 60s. My mother was probably one of the first subscribers to "Ms. Magazine," and was always telling me that I could do whatever I wanted to do.
I believed that. I took that on whole‑heartedly and my whole approach to life has always been, I could do what I wanted to do.
It was that concept that my mother taught me, that if you want to set your heart on something and you want to set a goal for yourself, you're the only person in the way of achieving that. Whether you achieve it, or don't, is in your control. I have to give my mother a lot of credit there.
My first boss, Nadine Yates was an early mentor of mine. She was just such a wonderfully well poised woman, who also gave me a lot of latitude in my first job.
She could see that I had a lot of ambition, a lot of different interests. She tried to fulfill those, see what they were and give me lots of different options and the ability to grow and learn in a company, even though I was a young kid out of college, working for a very old‑world consulting engineering firm.
She also gave me the sense that if I put my mind to something, or I set my sights, I could go for that.
Another interesting influence on my life ‑‑ and I wouldn't call it a mentor ‑‑ my tenth grade math teacher told me that I would most definitely fail math because girls can't do math.
[laughter]
Jenny: & When I decided to become an Applied Math major, those words were ringing in my head. I was pretty satisfied to go back to visit him after I had become a math major, to let him know that he was dead wrong.
[laughter]
Jenny: & Then, Brad Feld, who is a friend of mine, serial entrepreneur, VC, is a long time mentor of mine. I just always love to see what he's doing, and really enjoy the group of people that he interacts and works with.
I've never gone wrong interacting with his [indecipherable 09:22] group.
Larry: & I can see now where I must have met you in the past around Brad Feld and his teams.
Jenny: & [laughs]
Terry: & You'll be happy to know I saw Brad about a week ago and he was wearing a MakerBot t‑shirt.
Jenny: & Oh great!
Terry: & [laughs]
Larry: & Very good!
Jenny: & [laughs]
Larry: & You know, with all the different things that you've been through, it's really interesting, your history and the different things that you've tried. What is the toughest thing that you've ever had to do in your career?
Jenny: & There have been a lot of tough things. Some of them sound trite. Some of them are heavy.
Traveling a lot has always been a tough thing in my career. It's sort of part and parcel to my job, but it was really hard for me being a mother of young children, having an entrepreneurial business and traveling a lot.
It definitely caused a lot of stress in my relationships and just made me tired a lot. Travel is always something that I list. It's something that's just tough and I know it can sound trite, but I think that in some ways it could have been a limiting factor in my career because it's just always been something that's tough.
I sold my company and that's tough. It's like selling your baby to someone. There's this awesome amount of good stuff that comes out of selling a company, whether it goes well or not.
It's a big achievement to grow something to the point where someone else wants to acquire it. Just that milestone itself is a huge success, but it's also a really tough thing to do. I think equally, buying people's companies is also really hard. I love doing it. I love the synergies.
I love all the energy that comes out of it but it's also a really tough promotional exercise to go through. I also think that I had to shut down, not quite shut down, my coffee shop and my bookstore in sort of a down market. That was really tough, really hard stuff to do because you become really very emotionally attached.
Retail is really one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. It's just gut‑wrenchingly hard. You're living on the edge and especially small retail. It's just a lot of hard work. I think that the toughest thing I've done is taken time off.
It's really hard to take time off and getting out of balance and not giving yourself enough time, I think is not good for your career but forcing yourself to take some time off is just an incredibly difficult thing to do.
Terry: & What do you do to bring balance into your personal and professional lives?
Jenny: & I started exercising, at one point. One of my assistants at my consulting company was an ultra‑marathon runner and a personal trainer. Good for me and also a little scary for me when I realized she was going to take her executive assistant role beyond my scheduling and make me work out and do exercise.
Terry: & That's really funny.
Jenny: & It was also just one of the best things anyone had ever done for me. It really brought me an appreciation for taking the 30 minutes to 40 minutes out in a day to give yourself some down time to do something just for yourself.
Exercise became an important part of one of the things that I do to bring a little balance into my life. When I had my bookstore and cafÈ, my kid was a rower for his high school at that time. I became very involved with a master's rowing program.
I rowed competitively which was just awesome. I loved being with a group of people who are people I wouldn't normally meet to be able to do something that we all loved, rowing, and being able to do something. Also, being able to compete.
I love getting medals. Going and winning medals was really awesome. That was another way that I brought some balance into my life. I think what I got out of all of that, I just learned some wonderful lessons.
I love being able to take the concept of if you over‑control the oars in a boat, you just don't row very well. If you over‑control what you do with your employees in your company they just don't work very well.
Being able to take those lessons that you get from doing more balance things in your life and bringing them into your business world has also been really satisfying to me.
Larry: & I can just tell from the various things you've said and outlined that you've been through, that there are many different characteristics that would give you the advantage of being an entrepreneur. But if you were to pick out a single, most important one, what would it be?
Jenny: & That's a tough one. Just one?
[laughter]
Jenny: & I think that probably what bubbles up to the top all the time is I just have a natural curiosity and energy. I'm always curious about how something works and I want to know how it works or curious about where something's going to go. Learning more about a topic or how things are going to grow and impact the world.
I'd say the curiosity is probably the single characteristic that would come up, in my life as an entrepreneur.
Larry: & I can believe that.
Terry: & Jenny, if you were sitting here with a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them?
Jenny: & The first advice that I always say is that you don't ever get to be an Olympic athlete without falling on your butt a few times. You have to be willing to fail and try and try again in order to be able to get to the success.
The other thing that I tell people, over and over again, is that networking is key. You need to meet people, understand what your relationship is with them, and stay engaged with people that you meet in the world because you just never know where it might go.
I've found that almost everything I've done in my life has come out of a relationship that I've developed and nurtured and maintained with people. The other thing I tell people, I tell people this in interviews, I tell people this when I'm reviewing them, I tell people this in general, is that, if you're not happy doing what you're doing, don't do it.
Life is way too short to spend your time doing things that aren't satisfying to you. Go out and find out what is that is satisfying to you and then do that.
Larry: & That is excellent advice. I have to say just one thing. If somebody's driving down the highway right now listening to this interview in their MP3 player, tell us your website. We'll have it posted in a number of different places too.
Jenny: & The website for MakerBot is www.makerbot.com.
Larry: & All right. You have achieved a great deal. By the way, you listeners out there, go to her website. It is absolutely excellent. There's a lot to see. It's really fascinating. Now Jenny, you've already achieved a great deal. What is next for you?
Jenny: & MakerBot has a long way to go. There's a lot of stuff I'm doing at MakerBot that is really exciting. We more than doubled last year in size. I'm continuing to grow MakerBot right now and leading the next industrial revolution.
Larry: & That is one heck of a great statement. Wow, I want to thank you for joining us today.
Terry: & Yes. Thank you so much. We appreciate your time and we know the folks listening to this are really going to enjoy it. Thank you.
Jenny: & Thank you.
Terry: & Have a great afternoon.
Larry: & Yes.
Jenny: & OK. You too.
[music]
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Jenny LawtonInterview Summary:& Jenny Lawton is the president of MakerBot, a company that is leading the way in 3D printing and printers. "When I look back at it, I realize that I've been an entrepreneur since I was a little kid," Jenny said of when she became an entrepreneur. "I always kept files on everything. As a kid I was very curious and was always starting clubs and projects and getting people to join in and do things. I, of course, was always in charge. I probably still have some of the paperwork from some very complex clubs that I created in fifth grade...I love being able to start something and then see it grow into something that goes somewhere. I realize that that's what fuels me as an entrepreneur."
Release Date:& March 31, 2014Interview Subject:& Jenny Lawton, President of MakerBotInterviewer(s):& Terry Morreale and Larry NelsonDuration:& 16:43https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/jenny.lawton-makerbot_2-3-2014.mp3Interview with Sherisse Hawkinshttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-sherisse-hawkins
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-16354"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/sherisse.hawkins_beneaththeink_12-2-2013.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, NCWIT, the National Center for Women &amp; Information Technology. Today we have another interview with a woman who started an IT company ‑‑ a very innovative company, very technical ‑‑ I'll be talking with her.
With me, Larry Nelson, w3w3. Larry. what's going on?
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;We are really interested, in particular, working with entrepreneurs. We love working with women ‑‑ I have four daughters, so I have that leaning. In the mean time at w3w3.com, we have thousands of actual interviews up on our website right now and the better ones, of course, are NCWIT Heroes.
Lucy: &nbsp;Like the one we're talking to today...
Larry: &nbsp;Exactly.
Lucy: &nbsp;...who happens to be a former Disney Imagineer/Engineer, I have to say, which is pretty cool. I'm sure that she had that little Mickey Mouse on her business card from when she was working there. She has a great passion for large‑scale projects especially, were she can lend her creativity and technology skills together.
Being an engineer by training ‑‑ she did go on to become vice president of product development and also software development at Time Warner Cable.
Today, we're interviewing Sherisse Hawkins, the co‑founder and CEO of Beneath the Ink. Just a really awesome company that I know she's going to want to tell us a little bit about. But it provides Apples enhancements for E‑Books. It's like you get to provide additional content and not disrupt the flow of your story or the flow of your book.
The way authors do that is, they embed these enhancements called Binks which, I think, is so awesome, like beneath the inks. Anyway, they give readers more insight into the characters and data, places and things like that. Just so you can do that if you want to and not disrupt the story either.
Before we start, Sherisse, tell us a little bit about what's going on at Beneath the Ink.
Sherisse Hawkins: &nbsp;Beneath the Ink is at a very interesting phase in our life cycle. I think every day is an interesting phase in the life cycle and I was joking with the co‑founder of Loyalty about how we're in what I referred to as engineer or entrepreneur hours. That is every hour of physical work to a week in real world, every week of mine is once a year.
It is an incredible fast paced. We're looking at bringing on new authors to the office portal and they are releasing our fifth book this week into world. There's no shortage of excitement and not a lot of sleep.
Lucy: &nbsp;I remember when you were just kind of hatching this idea. How long ago was that? That was, couple of years ago, right?
Sherisse: &nbsp;It was. I actually left my corporate position with a great role. I really enjoyed that phase of my career. It was on Friday, April the 13th. I left my corporate position back in 2012.
Lucy: &nbsp;It's exciting to see you bring this concept forward! I know it's something you are really passionate about. Sherisse, tell us a little bit about how you first got into technology. You have an awesome technical background. How'd you get there?
Sherisse: &nbsp;I really credit my interest in technology and pursuing my education as well as my career, with one person. That was my high school geometry teacher. His name is Mr. Worth. He knows that I speak about him whenever I have an opportunity. He turned math into a very exciting experience.
I believed I could conquer anything in his class. I excelled in that particular class. It was through that experience of really loving math and science in his class that made me pursue and even think about taking on an engineering degree. I knew as soon as I left high school that I wanted to be an engineer. It was just a matter of what type.
Lucy: &nbsp;That was a real gift. Excellent teachers. I had a high school math teacher in [inaudible 03:53] that piqued my interest, also. Just that subtle form of encouragement of having a great teacher. It's awesome!
Sherisse: &nbsp;Literally, he put on a cape with a Pi symbol on back and come into class with this enthusiasm and tongue‑in‑cheek. He made the entire class so much fun. He wasn't afraid to take risks and just really be...Bring some life into a subject that can often be taught in a way that's not as engaging.
Lucy: &nbsp;As you look out at the technology spaces today, and you're a technologist, what technologies do you think are particularly interesting?
Sherisse: &nbsp;I'm absolutely biased because I love content. It wasn't until I started this company that I realized that my career has pretty much been associated with entertainment, leisure activity and content for the past...over 20 years.
At each job I've thought, "Oh this is different. I'm doing video now. I'm doing invented software for..." In that case, it was that [inaudible 04:49] . When I really sat back, I realized that in every case it was the wrong story. It was the wrong content. It was the wrong entertainment and learning.
I have a very strong bias around those things. How we learn. It's the stories that impact our lives. It's the analogy that helps us learn. I'm very interested in things that allow us to unlock the story behind the story and learn to go through that process and connect with other people through that process.
Nelson: &nbsp;That was all the different things you've done! You were with some very big and important companies. Why are you now an entrepreneur? What is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Sherisse: &nbsp;My boss at my last job, he would ask me every year, "Where do you want go? What do you want to do?" Each time, I would say, "I can't wait until we get this product out."
We had a goal of having it reach every subscriber at Time Warner Cable so we could literally send it right to the people. We designed the system. We hired the team. When we started out, I was employee six starting out of this large company.
It just grew to the point of across the United States and every Time Warner Cable subscriber. I found out near the end of that journey, and my boss asking me, "What do you want to do next?" I didn't have good answers for him, because it was that part of starting from nothing and taking it to something really large, that's the part that I really enjoyed.
For some people, once you get to that place, it's, "OK, we can enhance that or we can move a little bit further." It's that really steep learning curve, that fear of whether or not it's going to work at all that I realized it really made me tick.
The same thing is that when I was at Disney and building their theme park in Paris and wondering whether it was going to open on time. It's that really steep learning curve, the pressure of getting it done, the pressure of bringing it to scale, that I love.
Once it's out there and in that scale, honestly, that's when my enthusiasm wanes and I knew it was time to move on to the next project.
Lucy: &nbsp;You've got your hands on something you're bringing to scale right now, huh?
Sherisse: &nbsp;That's true, yes. [laughs]
Lucy: &nbsp;It's so interesting. Along this career path of yours, and you mentioned your high school math teacher, who else has influenced you to take the career path that you've taken?
Sherisse: &nbsp;There have been wonderful mentors. There was a guy named Ron Howell that I worked for at something called [inaudible 07:14] and I had just had my daughter. He said, "I think you'd be great in management. I think you'd be a great project leader and I think you should try it."
I remember thinking, "I wonder if that's true. I don't know. It sounds like it could be interesting." But I made him promise that he would hold my system architecture job open for a few months, because I really wasn't sure I wanted to leave technology behind and lead others and go into a different role.
It turns out, I loved it. I loved working on new projects. I love seeing people excited about things and we can have such a broader region impact when you're helping others move through a process, whether you're leading them through the project or leading them through a successful new design process that's much, much than working as an individual contributor.
I credit people, like Ron, who were giving me the chance and encouraging me to take more of a leadership role, that really shifted my career into a completely different space of leading larger projects, having larger teams and impacting people in a broader way.
Nelson: &nbsp;That's super.
Lucy: &nbsp;Sounds like a real sponsor.
Nelson: &nbsp;Yeah, you bet you. Now, with all the different things that you've been through and that you've done and accomplished, what's the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Sherisse: &nbsp;Without question, it is when projects do not go well and when you are in that leadership space and you have to either cancel, downsize or change the dynamics of the team. People don't talk about that very often, but in the lead positions that I've had, there are situations where we had to lay off people or make major changes or cancel projects.
That's true whether you're [inaudible 08:53] or not, but it is definitely the hardest thing to do when you're dealing with people, projects getting lost in their livelihood. That's definitely the hardest thing on an overall standpoint.
The hardest technical problems we've had to solve are absolutely the ones we ran across with Disney. There was a project where they said, "Well, assume the fault," every two minutes and then, reform.
[laughter]
Sherisse: &nbsp;That was the hardest technical problem that we've ever had to solve and we did solve it, but I just can't tell you how.
[laughter]
Lucy: &nbsp;A secret, a Disney secret.
Nelson: &nbsp;I lived in Tokyo when they opened up Disney in Japan.
Sherisse: &nbsp;Oh awesome.
Lucy: &nbsp;Do you know any Disney secrets?
Nelson: &nbsp;Nothing that I can talk about right now.
Sherisse: &nbsp;That shows you that whatever you can imagine, there is a solution. It took us a lot of trial and error, but I truly believe that anything is possible if you apply yourself.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yeah, it's the power of invention, right?
Nelson: &nbsp;You've got it.
Sherisse: &nbsp;Yes, absolutely.
Lucy: &nbsp;If you were sitting here with a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what would you tell them?
Sherisse: &nbsp;I've thought about this question and the thing that struck me the most was that the description was a "young" person. I am not a young person and I started to be an entrepreneur.
There are advantages to realizing that you can be an entrepreneur at any age. I think that we focus very much on working right out of school and taking advantage of when you're in your 20s you should be an entrepreneur.
One of the things that's most powerful about our team is our collective ages. Our ages range from 21 to mid‑50s. We're all doing this for the first time. There's just something wonderful about creating a new experience and a new product, no matter what your age is.
Even to a young person I would say, "Don't feel like if you don't do this before you get married or before you're 30, that you can't do it." When you have a good idea and the market lends itself and you have the chance, I say you should go for it.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's an excellent point. I think the research bears out the fact that a very high percentage of first time entrepreneurs that are successful are not young. They are not in their 20s.
Nelson: &nbsp;That's right, absolutely right. What do you think has given you the advantages of being an entrepreneur, especially with all the things you've been through?
Sherisse: &nbsp;My husband would answer this question for me. He would say tenacity. Tenacity taken to an extreme can maybe not be as positive of a personality trait, but I'm one of those people that just won't quit.
If I want to understand something or learn something or I'm curious about something, I will continue to work at it until I figure it out. I think that's what got me through engineering school. It wasn't like I was some brilliant Einstein kind of brain going to college, but it was working hard and realizing that you take small steps to get to big goals. It's that tenacity that has really helped carry us.
I'll tell you a story about Beneath the Ink specifically. When Alex and I went to a book conference earlier this year, we had a particular piece of technology working. We had multiple people come up to us and say, "That's not possible."
We just sort of smirked, because literally in his back pocket was iPad running a prototype of Beneath the Ink where we had gotten this specific feature to work. It was almost a sense of we didn't know that you shouldn't be able to do it that allowed us to keep working at it months ‑‑ week after week ‑‑ until we had it to a point where it was commercially viable.
Lucy: &nbsp;There's no question about it. You all are really inventing some new technology with what you're doing, which makes it even more exciting for an engineer, huh?
[laughter]
Sherisse: &nbsp;Definitely.
Lucy: &nbsp;Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about how you bring balance between your personal and your professional lives?
Sherisse: &nbsp;That's another one that's hard. I think having done this for over 20 years have helped. I won't say that it's perfect yet, but I think making sure that there are certain priorities.
I go home every night, and I have dinner with my family. It doesn't mean that I don't have a second shift after everyone's asleep, but it does mean that I make it a rule to be home at certain times of the day ‑‑ help my daughter with homework, be available on the weekends, and have some balancing time for myself.
I'm a big believer in yoga. I like to do triathlons. There's carving out time each week to do those physical activities. They keep you healthier. They keep your mind sharp. There's always studies about if you go out and have a walk in the middle of the day, how much more productive you will be than if you skip lunch and you don't ‑‑ kind of change your perspective. I hold those things very, very dear.
I won't give you that it's not hard. In the one sense of starting an entrepreneurial business when you're younger, not having as many roles, I can see it being somewhat easier. But there's still a juggle to keep balance and to keep your health. Even if you don't have a family to go to every night, there are still responsibilities that you have to meet.
Nelson: &nbsp;You've done so much. You've achieved a great deal already. What's next for you?
Sherisse: &nbsp;We have a goal of having a billion books with Beneath the Ink content in them. We're very serious about being able to see this technology in places that we haven't even imagined yet and work this project goes beyond its initial commercial launch.
I believe strongly in giving back to the community. I want to see our Beneath the Ink core available at every school so that students can utilize the tools to enhance their projects, their research papers, and have ways for kids to compete, get awards, get recognition for their creative writing and their research.
I see the next phase of the project being a great product, revenues, sustainability, growth in all of the commercial sense, but also success for us being able to give back and seeing this used in the educational system across the US and maybe abroad.
Nelson: &nbsp;Wow.
Lucy: &nbsp;There's no reason why it's not a global product, right?
Nelson: &nbsp;You bet.
Sherisse: &nbsp;Right.
Lucy: &nbsp;Absolutely no reason. I'm sitting here. I wrote this down. It's a billion books with Binks.
Sherisse: &nbsp;A billion books with Binks.
Lucy: &nbsp;B cubed.
Nelson: &nbsp;I like that.
[laughter]
Lucy: &nbsp;I love that. I'm so in love with this Binks.
[laughter]
Nelson: &nbsp;I know. You talked about it before we called her.
Lucy: &nbsp;I love it.
Sherisse: &nbsp;We've been shocked at...Without any promotions, we've done several books as promotional titles without any advertising. We've gone from having 100 downloads a week to over 100 downloads a day ‑‑ not just in the US ‑‑ but I think we're up to 9 or 12 countries.
There's clearly an interest and the desire to explore different content. I wish we could talk to each of those people and figure out how they did hear about us, but it continues. The momentum is building, and we see a bit of a snowball effect. When we looked at the numbers last week and saw over 100 downloads in a single day, we were thrilled. I hope that trajectory continues.
Lucy: &nbsp;Best of luck. I'm sure it will. You've got a great concept, and we know you're a great leader and entrepreneur. Thanks for talking to us.
Nelson: &nbsp;Yes!
Sherisse: &nbsp;Thanks for having me.
Lucy: &nbsp;I want to remind listeners that they can find these podcasts on W3W3.com and ncwit.org.
Nelson: &nbsp;You bet. We'll make sure we'll have it on our podcast directory and the blog.
Lucy: &nbsp;Sherisse, thank you very much.
Sherisse: &nbsp;Thank you.
Lucy: &nbsp;All right, bye.
Nelson: &nbsp;Bye‑bye.
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/sherisse-hawkins">Sherisse Hawkins</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Sherisse Hawkins is the co-founder of Beneath the Ink, a company that provides app-less enhancements for ebooks. "There are advantages to realizing that you can be an entrepreneur at any age," said Sherisse about when she became an entrepreneur. " I think that we focus very much on working right out of school and taking advantage of your youth when you're in your 20s, but one of the most powerful things about our team is our collective ages. Our ages range from 21 to mid‑50s. We're all doing this for the first time. There's just something wonderful about creating a new experience and a new product, no matter what your age is."</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2014-02-19T00:00:00-07:00">February 19, 2014</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Sherisse Hawkins, co-founder and CEO of Beneath the Ink</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders and Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">16:49</div></div></div>Wed, 19 Feb 2014 17:13:42 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-sherisse-hawkins#comments16:50Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, NCWIT, the National Center for Women & Information Technology. Today we have another interview with a woman who started an IT company ‑‑ a ve...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, NCWIT, the National Center for Women & Information Technology. Today we have another interview with a woman who started an IT company ‑‑ a very innovative company, very technical ‑‑ I'll be talking with her.
With me, Larry Nelson, w3w3. Larry. what's going on?
Larry Nelson: & We are really interested, in particular, working with entrepreneurs. We love working with women ‑‑ I have four daughters, so I have that leaning. In the mean time at w3w3.com, we have thousands of actual interviews up on our website right now and the better ones, of course, are NCWIT Heroes.
Lucy: & Like the one we're talking to today...
Larry: & Exactly.
Lucy: & ...who happens to be a former Disney Imagineer/Engineer, I have to say, which is pretty cool. I'm sure that she had that little Mickey Mouse on her business card from when she was working there. She has a great passion for large‑scale projects especially, were she can lend her creativity and technology skills together.
Being an engineer by training ‑‑ she did go on to become vice president of product development and also software development at Time Warner Cable.
Today, we're interviewing Sherisse Hawkins, the co‑founder and CEO of Beneath the Ink. Just a really awesome company that I know she's going to want to tell us a little bit about. But it provides Apples enhancements for E‑Books. It's like you get to provide additional content and not disrupt the flow of your story or the flow of your book.
The way authors do that is, they embed these enhancements called Binks which, I think, is so awesome, like beneath the inks. Anyway, they give readers more insight into the characters and data, places and things like that. Just so you can do that if you want to and not disrupt the story either.
Before we start, Sherisse, tell us a little bit about what's going on at Beneath the Ink.
Sherisse Hawkins: & Beneath the Ink is at a very interesting phase in our life cycle. I think every day is an interesting phase in the life cycle and I was joking with the co‑founder of Loyalty about how we're in what I referred to as engineer or entrepreneur hours. That is every hour of physical work to a week in real world, every week of mine is once a year.
It is an incredible fast paced. We're looking at bringing on new authors to the office portal and they are releasing our fifth book this week into world. There's no shortage of excitement and not a lot of sleep.
Lucy: & I remember when you were just kind of hatching this idea. How long ago was that? That was, couple of years ago, right?
Sherisse: & It was. I actually left my corporate position with a great role. I really enjoyed that phase of my career. It was on Friday, April the 13th. I left my corporate position back in 2012.
Lucy: & It's exciting to see you bring this concept forward! I know it's something you are really passionate about. Sherisse, tell us a little bit about how you first got into technology. You have an awesome technical background. How'd you get there?
Sherisse: & I really credit my interest in technology and pursuing my education as well as my career, with one person. That was my high school geometry teacher. His name is Mr. Worth. He knows that I speak about him whenever I have an opportunity. He turned math into a very exciting experience.
I believed I could conquer anything in his class. I excelled in that particular class. It was through that experience of really loving math and science in his class that made me pursue and even think about taking on an engineering degree. I knew as soon as I left high school that I wanted to be an engineer. It was just a matter of what type.
Lucy: & That was a real gift. Excellent teachers. I had a high school math teacher in [inaudible 03:53] that piqued my interest, also. Just that subtle form of encouragement of having a great teacher. It's awesome!
Sherisse: & Literally, he put on a cape with a Pi symbol on back and come into class with this enthusiasm and tongue‑in‑cheek. He made the entire class so much fun. He wasn't afraid to take risks and just really be...Bring some life into a subject that can often be taught in a way that's not as engaging.
Lucy: & As you look out at the technology spaces today, and you're a technologist, what technologies do you think are particularly interesting?
Sherisse: & I'm absolutely biased because I love content. It wasn't until I started this company that I realized that my career has pretty much been associated with entertainment, leisure activity and content for the past...over 20 years.
At each job I've thought, "Oh this is different. I'm doing video now. I'm doing invented software for..." In that case, it was that [inaudible 04:49] . When I really sat back, I realized that in every case it was the wrong story. It was the wrong content. It was the wrong entertainment and learning.
I have a very strong bias around those things. How we learn. It's the stories that impact our lives. It's the analogy that helps us learn. I'm very interested in things that allow us to unlock the story behind the story and learn to go through that process and connect with other people through that process.
Nelson: & That was all the different things you've done! You were with some very big and important companies. Why are you now an entrepreneur? What is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Sherisse: & My boss at my last job, he would ask me every year, "Where do you want go? What do you want to do?" Each time, I would say, "I can't wait until we get this product out."
We had a goal of having it reach every subscriber at Time Warner Cable so we could literally send it right to the people. We designed the system. We hired the team. When we started out, I was employee six starting out of this large company.
It just grew to the point of across the United States and every Time Warner Cable subscriber. I found out near the end of that journey, and my boss asking me, "What do you want to do next?" I didn't have good answers for him, because it was that part of starting from nothing and taking it to something really large, that's the part that I really enjoyed.
For some people, once you get to that place, it's, "OK, we can enhance that or we can move a little bit further." It's that really steep learning curve, that fear of whether or not it's going to work at all that I realized it really made me tick.
The same thing is that when I was at Disney and building their theme park in Paris and wondering whether it was going to open on time. It's that really steep learning curve, the pressure of getting it done, the pressure of bringing it to scale, that I love.
Once it's out there and in that scale, honestly, that's when my enthusiasm wanes and I knew it was time to move on to the next project.
Lucy: & You've got your hands on something you're bringing to scale right now, huh?
Sherisse: & That's true, yes. [laughs]
Lucy: & It's so interesting. Along this career path of yours, and you mentioned your high school math teacher, who else has influenced you to take the career path that you've taken?
Sherisse: & There have been wonderful mentors. There was a guy named Ron Howell that I worked for at something called [inaudible 07:14] and I had just had my daughter. He said, "I think you'd be great in management. I think you'd be a great project leader and I think you should try it."
I remember thinking, "I wonder if that's true. I don't know. It sounds like it could be interesting." But I made him promise that he would hold my system architecture job open for a few months, because I really wasn't sure I wanted to leave technology behind and lead others and go into a different role.
It turns out, I loved it. I loved working on new projects. I love seeing people excited about things and we can have such a broader region impact when you're helping others move through a process, whether you're leading them through the project or leading them through a successful new design process that's much, much than working as an individual contributor.
I credit people, like Ron, who were giving me the chance and encouraging me to take more of a leadership role, that really shifted my career into a completely different space of leading larger projects, having larger teams and impacting people in a broader way.
Nelson: & That's super.
Lucy: & Sounds like a real sponsor.
Nelson: & Yeah, you bet you. Now, with all the different things that you've been through and that you've done and accomplished, what's the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Sherisse: & Without question, it is when projects do not go well and when you are in that leadership space and you have to either cancel, downsize or change the dynamics of the team. People don't talk about that very often, but in the lead positions that I've had, there are situations where we had to lay off people or make major changes or cancel projects.
That's true whether you're [inaudible 08:53] or not, but it is definitely the hardest thing to do when you're dealing with people, projects getting lost in their livelihood. That's definitely the hardest thing on an overall standpoint.
The hardest technical problems we've had to solve are absolutely the ones we ran across with Disney. There was a project where they said, "Well, assume the fault," every two minutes and then, reform.
[laughter]
Sherisse: & That was the hardest technical problem that we've ever had to solve and we did solve it, but I just can't tell you how.
[laughter]
Lucy: & A secret, a Disney secret.
Nelson: & I lived in Tokyo when they opened up Disney in Japan.
Sherisse: & Oh awesome.
Lucy: & Do you know any Disney secrets?
Nelson: & Nothing that I can talk about right now.
Sherisse: & That shows you that whatever you can imagine, there is a solution. It took us a lot of trial and error, but I truly believe that anything is possible if you apply yourself.
Lucy: & Yeah, it's the power of invention, right?
Nelson: & You've got it.
Sherisse: & Yes, absolutely.
Lucy: & If you were sitting here with a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what would you tell them?
Sherisse: & I've thought about this question and the thing that struck me the most was that the description was a "young" person. I am not a young person and I started to be an entrepreneur.
There are advantages to realizing that you can be an entrepreneur at any age. I think that we focus very much on working right out of school and taking advantage of when you're in your 20s you should be an entrepreneur.
One of the things that's most powerful about our team is our collective ages. Our ages range from 21 to mid‑50s. We're all doing this for the first time. There's just something wonderful about creating a new experience and a new product, no matter what your age is.
Even to a young person I would say, "Don't feel like if you don't do this before you get married or before you're 30, that you can't do it." When you have a good idea and the market lends itself and you have the chance, I say you should go for it.
Lucy: & That's an excellent point. I think the research bears out the fact that a very high percentage of first time entrepreneurs that are successful are not young. They are not in their 20s.
Nelson: & That's right, absolutely right. What do you think has given you the advantages of being an entrepreneur, especially with all the things you've been through?
Sherisse: & My husband would answer this question for me. He would say tenacity. Tenacity taken to an extreme can maybe not be as positive of a personality trait, but I'm one of those people that just won't quit.
If I want to understand something or learn something or I'm curious about something, I will continue to work at it until I figure it out. I think that's what got me through engineering school. It wasn't like I was some brilliant Einstein kind of brain going to college, but it was working hard and realizing that you take small steps to get to big goals. It's that tenacity that has really helped carry us.
I'll tell you a story about Beneath the Ink specifically. When Alex and I went to a book conference earlier this year, we had a particular piece of technology working. We had multiple people come up to us and say, "That's not possible."
We just sort of smirked, because literally in his back pocket was iPad running a prototype of Beneath the Ink where we had gotten this specific feature to work. It was almost a sense of we didn't know that you shouldn't be able to do it that allowed us to keep working at it months ‑‑ week after week ‑‑ until we had it to a point where it was commercially viable.
Lucy: & There's no question about it. You all are really inventing some new technology with what you're doing, which makes it even more exciting for an engineer, huh?
[laughter]
Sherisse: & Definitely.
Lucy: & Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about how you bring balance between your personal and your professional lives?
Sherisse: & That's another one that's hard. I think having done this for over 20 years have helped. I won't say that it's perfect yet, but I think making sure that there are certain priorities.
I go home every night, and I have dinner with my family. It doesn't mean that I don't have a second shift after everyone's asleep, but it does mean that I make it a rule to be home at certain times of the day ‑‑ help my daughter with homework, be available on the weekends, and have some balancing time for myself.
I'm a big believer in yoga. I like to do triathlons. There's carving out time each week to do those physical activities. They keep you healthier. They keep your mind sharp. There's always studies about if you go out and have a walk in the middle of the day, how much more productive you will be than if you skip lunch and you don't ‑‑ kind of change your perspective. I hold those things very, very dear.
I won't give you that it's not hard. In the one sense of starting an entrepreneurial business when you're younger, not having as many roles, I can see it being somewhat easier. But there's still a juggle to keep balance and to keep your health. Even if you don't have a family to go to every night, there are still responsibilities that you have to meet.
Nelson: & You've done so much. You've achieved a great deal already. What's next for you?
Sherisse: & We have a goal of having a billion books with Beneath the Ink content in them. We're very serious about being able to see this technology in places that we haven't even imagined yet and work this project goes beyond its initial commercial launch.
I believe strongly in giving back to the community. I want to see our Beneath the Ink core available at every school so that students can utilize the tools to enhance their projects, their research papers, and have ways for kids to compete, get awards, get recognition for their creative writing and their research.
I see the next phase of the project being a great product, revenues, sustainability, growth in all of the commercial sense, but also success for us being able to give back and seeing this used in the educational system across the US and maybe abroad.
Nelson: & Wow.
Lucy: & There's no reason why it's not a global product, right?
Nelson: & You bet.
Sherisse: & Right.
Lucy: & Absolutely no reason. I'm sitting here. I wrote this down. It's a billion books with Binks.
Sherisse: & A billion books with Binks.
Lucy: & B cubed.
Nelson: & I like that.
[laughter]
Lucy: & I love that. I'm so in love with this Binks.
[laughter]
Nelson: & I know. You talked about it before we called her.
Lucy: & I love it.
Sherisse: & We've been shocked at...Without any promotions, we've done several books as promotional titles without any advertising. We've gone from having 100 downloads a week to over 100 downloads a day ‑‑ not just in the US ‑‑ but I think we're up to 9 or 12 countries.
There's clearly an interest and the desire to explore different content. I wish we could talk to each of those people and figure out how they did hear about us, but it continues. The momentum is building, and we see a bit of a snowball effect. When we looked at the numbers last week and saw over 100 downloads in a single day, we were thrilled. I hope that trajectory continues.
Lucy: & Best of luck. I'm sure it will. You've got a great concept, and we know you're a great leader and entrepreneur. Thanks for talking to us.
Nelson: & Yes!
Sherisse: & Thanks for having me.
Lucy: & I want to remind listeners that they can find these podcasts on W3W3.com and ncwit.org.
Nelson: & You bet. We'll make sure we'll have it on our podcast directory and the blog.
Lucy: & Sherisse, thank you very much.
Sherisse: & Thank you.
Lucy: & All right, bye.
Nelson: & Bye‑bye.
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Sherisse HawkinsInterview Summary:& Sherisse Hawkins is the co-founder of Beneath the Ink, a company that provides app-less enhancements for ebooks. "There are advantages to realizing that you can be an entrepreneur at any age," said Sherisse about when she became an entrepreneur. " I think that we focus very much on working right out of school and taking advantage of your youth when you're in your 20s, but one of the most powerful things about our team is our collective ages. Our ages range from 21 to mid‑50s. We're all doing this for the first time. There's just something wonderful about creating a new experience and a new product, no matter what your age is."
Release Date:& February 19, 2014Interview Subject:& Sherisse Hawkins, co-founder and CEO of Beneath the InkInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders and Larry NelsonDuration:& 16:49https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/sherisse.hawkins_beneaththeink_12-2-2013.mp3Interview with Sian Morsonhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-sian-morson
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-16135"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/sian.morson_kollectivemobile_12-16-2013.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Woman and Information Technology.
This is another in a series of interviews of interviews that we're doing with just fantastic women who have started IT companies, very, very inspirational women. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com.
Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;Hi. I'm so happy to be here. I'm really looking forward to this interview. w3w3, we launched it in January of '99. We have thousands of archives stories up and the important ones are NCWIT Heroes series.
Lucy: &nbsp;You don't say?
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's great. Well, today, Larry, we're going to interview a mobile evangelist and internationally exhibited artist and she's also an author, just like you with a passion for fusing her creativity with technology.
Sian Morson is the founder and CEO of Kollective Mobile. Kollective Mobile is a mobile development agency that focuses on bringing mobile solutions to start‑up and agencies. This is a top space.
We're busy trying to get into mobile applications at NCWIT, a little more slowly than I would like. Sian, also, speaks and writes about mobile strategy for a number of publications and works with a variety of non‑profits.
Thank you, Sian, for doing that, especially in this space of bridging the digital divide. She has a new book coming up in December. Maybe, we'll have a chance to ask her about that, "Learn Design for iOS."
Before we start, Sian, welcome. How are you?
Sian Morson: &nbsp;Thank you. I'm doing great. I'm doing great today.
Lucy: &nbsp;Why don't you tell us just a little bit about what's going on at Kollective Mobile?
Sian: &nbsp;Right now, at Kollective Mobile, it's the end of the year. It's traditionally a pretty busy time for us, because everyone's trying to get rid of their budget.
[laughter]
Sian: &nbsp;We're getting proposals for lots of crazy apps and vetting those and trying to deliver. Lots of projects before the end of the year, so it's a pretty busy time for us.
Lucy: &nbsp;If you have any left over money, send it to NCWIT.
[laughter]
Larry: &nbsp;Or, w3w3 would...
[laughter]
Lucy: &nbsp;If it's just...
[crosstalk]
Sian: &nbsp;...sure to do that.
Lucy: &nbsp;If it's just too crazy of an app.
Sian: &nbsp;We're just wrapping up the year. It's our third year. We celebrated our three year anniversary in October, so we are pleased as punch to still be around and still be turning out good apps for your clients.
Lucy: &nbsp;Good luck with the end‑of‑year. Being in the corporate IT space myself, I understand the end‑of‑year is a busy time. The end‑of‑year budget is important.
Sian, how did you first get into technology? Our listeners are always eager to know people's paths along the way.
Sian: &nbsp;Let's see. I've always been really interested in the way that things work. It's funny, I was asked this question once or twice before and started to really think about it. In thinking about it, I thought about how fortunate I was, because I actually had a computer lab in my junior high school that I attended in the Bronx in New York.
When I started telling people about that, they were like, "You actually had computers in your school?" I just thought that was normal for everyone, but apparently, especially, if you think of now, kids don't really have that much, so I was quite fortunate that I was introduced to technology in junior high school.
We had a computer lab. We learned the basic and I was one of those kids with a Commodore VIC‑20 and then, the Commodore 64, sitting up late at night, making my own programs. That was my first foray linking technology, but it certainly stuck.
Lucy: &nbsp;Basic was my first language, too. Although, my first language was actually a little register swapping language on [inaudible 03:52] desktop machine. That just shows I'm really old Sian. Just following up on that, if when you look out on the technology landscape, today, obviously, mobile apps and the technology that underpins them very cool, other types of advancing technologies, that you see out there?
Sian: &nbsp;These days, I'm a little bit excited about the Internet of things. I find that to be fascinating of just how pulling together all of these different facets of your lives to...I don't know if it's to build a profile, but the way that technology just affecting every single aspect of our lives is great and I'm particularly fascinated by the Internet of things. That's cool.
I'm also really interested in health techs in how there are so many advancements in that space, specifically as it pertains to mobile, that's one of the fasting growing segments of mobile is health tech. I remember when I first studied creating apps, I was working for a pharma agency. Pharma and health is very restricted and limited in terms of what they can say and what they can do, but there have been lots of advances in health tech in the last couple of years.
I'm super excited about that, as well.
Larry: &nbsp;That's really super. I've got to ask this question, why are you an entrepreneur, Sian? Also, what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Sian: &nbsp;Why am I an entrepreneur? That's a good question. I don't know any other way to be. I've just always been a little more independent than all the other kids. I was always that kid saying, "What else?" I was never just happy with one answer or the status quo. I was always a seeker and that's probably largely, that coped with my need to know how things work, probably laid the ground work for me becoming an entrepreneur today.
That, particularly, learning how things work and getting to the root of the problem and issue, whether it be a technological one or even a human resource issue, that's what makes me tick. I like figuring things out. I like getting to the bottom of things, so for me, that's probably why I'm an entrepreneur today.
Lucy: &nbsp;Along this entrepreneurship adventure, as you will, because that's sort of what it is, who supported you on your career path? Do you have mentors or role models? Anything come to mind there?
Sian: &nbsp;Even though, she never branched out and started a specific business, my mom really influenced me. She was always doing little side projects.
My dad was an entrepreneur, as well, certainly not in technology, but those are the people that I saw around me just doing their own thing and it always made me want to do my own thing, as well. Today, I look up to a lot of the other women in technology.
There are other women that are doing amazing things. Kelly Hoey of Women Innovate Mobile is someone that I look up to. I met her a year ago at a conference and she's been really supportive of my career and all the projects that I work on, so I certainly do look up to her, as well. But there are tons of women who are doing great things, now.
I'm super excited that there are so many of us in this space. It's great to just look around and observe all the amazing things that women are doing.
Lucy: &nbsp;We agree. Right, Larry?
Larry: &nbsp;Absolutely, 100 percent.
Lucy: &nbsp;We agree. We can't wait, really, when all the creative ideas and thoughts of women are instantiated in our technology. We are excited about that.
Sian: &nbsp;It almost makes me want to be a teenager again.
[laughter]
Sian: &nbsp;Because I figure it's such a great time to be growing up and to be learning and to have access to so much. It really makes me want to go back in time a little bit.
Lucy: &nbsp;Maybe, we could skip the acne or something.
[laughter]
Larry: &nbsp;Just as a sidebar there, it was something that Lucinda said earlier, she actually did some of that software work when she was only like five, six years old. So she's not as old as some people might think.
Lucy: &nbsp;No, I didn't. Probably 25 or something.
Larry: &nbsp;With all the neat things that you have done over the years and so on, what is the toughest thing that you've ever had to do in your career?
Sian: &nbsp;Let's put it this way. I've got two things to answer that question. If you'd asked me the question before a month ago, I would have said, the hardest thing that I've done in my career was quit a regular, great paying job to start my own company, because that was pretty challenging and that was scary, certainly scary, because you're giving up that "security" of a paycheck in order to do your own thing.
That was tough, but now, I can say, that writing this book.
[laughter]
Sian: &nbsp;It's the hardest thing that I've done. I really have to tip my hat to what I considered to be real writers who are out there, doing this stuff every day, all day. It really was challenging for me to do it. I would say, starting my company and then, writing a book would probably be two challenging things I've had to do in my career.
Lucy: &nbsp;I've heard writing a book is hard and now, I'm lamenting. [laughs] I guess I'll find out, Sian.
Larry: &nbsp;You bet.
Sian: &nbsp;You think it sounds easy because you do know it. It's all stuff that's in your head, but really putting it out there and crafting it and making it into something that people want to read, is certainly a process. I am in awe of that creative process. I'm not sure that I'm ready to do that any time again soon, but it was fantastic.
I learned a lot about discipline and I learned a lot about myself, as well, in the process. I definitely think that's...I'd be curious to hear what you think when you're done with that, as well.
Lucy: &nbsp;I'm a little in awe of the whole process. Sian, if you were sitting here and talking to a young person about entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them?
Sian: &nbsp;Always follow your gut. I would give that advice to any young person, but especially if it were a young woman. I, certainly, would tell her to really follow her gut. We, as women, are intuitive. There are times when we second guess ourselves for whatever reason. We don't always go with that intuitive nature that we're given. That's served me so many times in my career.
It's often the times that I have gone against it or I second guessed myself that I ended up making a mistake. I am like "I should not have done that." I knew that, but went against it anyway so here I am. That is probably the biggest piece of advice I would give to a young person. Follow your heart and go with your gut always.
Larry: &nbsp;I love it. I am a father of four daughters. I'll make sure they get this message.
Sian: &nbsp;Four daughters, wow that is pretty amazing. I have a cousin who has five daughters. For a good couple of years, he was the only male in his household. [laughs]
Larry: &nbsp;What are the personal characteristics that have made you not just a good, but a great entrepreneur?
Sian: &nbsp;I am stubborn beyond belief.
[laughter]
Sian: &nbsp;I am insanely competitive. But, I can also admit when I am wrong. You can only be stubborn for so long, to be competitive for so long. If you know when you lose then the key is to learn from all of those.
I do think that being competitive helps. I look at a lot of situations as a competition as well. As competitive people, I want to win. I don't always win but my competitive nature makes me want to do my best regardless. I don't always win but I take the "L" when I need to. I learn from it.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's a great phrase. I take the "L" when I need to. That's awesome.
You're busy and you have a busy life, you're so involved in your work and giving back, writing, and being an artist. How do you bring balance into your life between work and your personal endeavors? It sounds like you do great job and perhaps our listeners could learn something from that.
Sian: &nbsp;This is a really important question. It's easy to get caught up in the rat race and to push ourselves beyond belief. There is this school of thought that entrepreneurship means that you are working all night, every night, no sleep. There is a sort of glory that is associated with that for some people.
Certainly I have pulled my share of all‑nighters. I don't make it a regular thing. I don't recommend that for anyone. It's certainly not sustainable.
The way that I bring balance to my life is that I'm a runner. I love running. I don't run races. I don't run marathons. I like to run by myself. If I have a rough day, I go home, put some headphones on and I just run as far as I can. I make my way back and that makes me feel great.
I also mediate. I try to do that in the mornings before work or in the evenings when I get home. That is a good way to set up the day. It's a great way to decompress at the end of a crazy day.
Those are the two things that have been constant for me throughout my career.
Lucy: &nbsp;Great advice.
Larry: &nbsp;Great advice, for sure. You've done so much. You've achieved a great deal. What's next for you?
Sian: &nbsp;Lots of rest.
[laughter]
Sian: &nbsp;Wrapping up the end of a pretty busy six months, I opened this space. I'm in Atlanta at the moment. I opened a co‑working space and communi‑tech center called Kollective South. I am trying to get that off the ground.
That has taken me away from the Bay Area. I've done all of that and wrote the book on Kollective Mobile in that last six months. That's a lot.
I am ready for some time off. I am looking forward to that as soon as I get this place up to where I need it to be. That's next.
It's a pretty ambitious project. I don't know how realistic it is for me to think that I am going to be able to get any rest. [laughs] I am certainly going to try. We're trying to open these communi‑tech centers in urban areas across the country in order to increase digital literacy and to bridge the digital divide. It's fairly ambitious. It's a lot to do, but I am super‑passionate about it. I'm really excited about it.
Larry: &nbsp;If anybody can do it, you can.
Lucy: &nbsp;I have no doubt. This is a great close for this because that is what entrepreneurs do. They don't necessarily see the end in sight. They set off, they dodge, they weave, they experiment, they fail, and they succeed. Through it all, they're driven by passion to get something done.
It's very commendable. Good luck with that. We are very eager to hear how that goes.
Larry: &nbsp;We'll follow up on that, too.
Lucy: &nbsp;Totally.
Sian: &nbsp;Please do. I love to have a follow‑up conversation. I love to hear about your book as well.
Lucy: &nbsp;[laughs] I don't know. We'll see it how that all goes. Sian, thanks so much for joining us. It sounds like you have a wonderful life. Good luck with all of your endeavors.
Larry: &nbsp;That's a fact.
Sian: &nbsp;Thank you for having me. It was awesome speaking with you both.
Lucy: &nbsp;Remind listeners that they can find this at W3W3.com and also ncwit.org.
Larry: &nbsp;That's it. You listen to it. It will be on a podcast as well as a blog.
Lucy: &nbsp;Great, thank you Sian.
Sian: &nbsp;You're welcome. Bye‑bye.
&nbsp;
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/sian-morson">Sian Morson</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Sian Morson is a tech entrepreneur, mobile evangelist and strategist. In 2010, Sian founded Kollective Mobile to help other businesses and startups with mobile development and strategy. "I don't know any other way to be," Sian said when asked why she became an entrepreneur. "I've just always been a little more independent than all the other kids. I was always that kid saying, "What else?" I was never just happy with one answer or the status quo. I was always a seeker and that's probably largely, that coped with my need to know how things work, probably laid the ground work for me becoming an entrepreneur today."</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2013-12-06T00:00:00-07:00">December 6, 2013</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Sian Morson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">15:51</div></div></div>Mon, 10 Feb 2014 19:55:44 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-sian-morson#comments15:52Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Woman and Information Technology.
This is another in a series of interviews of interviews that we're d...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Lucy Sanders: & Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Woman and Information Technology.
This is another in a series of interviews of interviews that we're doing with just fantastic women who have started IT companies, very, very inspirational women. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com.
Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson: & Hi. I'm so happy to be here. I'm really looking forward to this interview. w3w3, we launched it in January of '99. We have thousands of archives stories up and the important ones are NCWIT Heroes series.
Lucy: & You don't say?
Larry: & Yeah.
Lucy: & That's great. Well, today, Larry, we're going to interview a mobile evangelist and internationally exhibited artist and she's also an author, just like you with a passion for fusing her creativity with technology.
Sian Morson is the founder and CEO of Kollective Mobile. Kollective Mobile is a mobile development agency that focuses on bringing mobile solutions to start‑up and agencies. This is a top space.
We're busy trying to get into mobile applications at NCWIT, a little more slowly than I would like. Sian, also, speaks and writes about mobile strategy for a number of publications and works with a variety of non‑profits.
Thank you, Sian, for doing that, especially in this space of bridging the digital divide. She has a new book coming up in December. Maybe, we'll have a chance to ask her about that, "Learn Design for iOS."
Before we start, Sian, welcome. How are you?
Sian Morson: & Thank you. I'm doing great. I'm doing great today.
Lucy: & Why don't you tell us just a little bit about what's going on at Kollective Mobile?
Sian: & Right now, at Kollective Mobile, it's the end of the year. It's traditionally a pretty busy time for us, because everyone's trying to get rid of their budget.
[laughter]
Sian: & We're getting proposals for lots of crazy apps and vetting those and trying to deliver. Lots of projects before the end of the year, so it's a pretty busy time for us.
Lucy: & If you have any left over money, send it to NCWIT.
[laughter]
Larry: & Or, w3w3 would...
[laughter]
Lucy: & If it's just...
[crosstalk]
Sian: & ...sure to do that.
Lucy: & If it's just too crazy of an app.
Sian: & We're just wrapping up the year. It's our third year. We celebrated our three year anniversary in October, so we are pleased as punch to still be around and still be turning out good apps for your clients.
Lucy: & Good luck with the end‑of‑year. Being in the corporate IT space myself, I understand the end‑of‑year is a busy time. The end‑of‑year budget is important.
Sian, how did you first get into technology? Our listeners are always eager to know people's paths along the way.
Sian: & Let's see. I've always been really interested in the way that things work. It's funny, I was asked this question once or twice before and started to really think about it. In thinking about it, I thought about how fortunate I was, because I actually had a computer lab in my junior high school that I attended in the Bronx in New York.
When I started telling people about that, they were like, "You actually had computers in your school?" I just thought that was normal for everyone, but apparently, especially, if you think of now, kids don't really have that much, so I was quite fortunate that I was introduced to technology in junior high school.
We had a computer lab. We learned the basic and I was one of those kids with a Commodore VIC‑20 and then, the Commodore 64, sitting up late at night, making my own programs. That was my first foray linking technology, but it certainly stuck.
Lucy: & Basic was my first language, too. Although, my first language was actually a little register swapping language on [inaudible 03:52] desktop machine. That just shows I'm really old Sian. Just following up on that, if when you look out on the technology landscape, today, obviously, mobile apps and the technology that underpins them very cool, other types of advancing technologies, that you see out there?
Sian: & These days, I'm a little bit excited about the Internet of things. I find that to be fascinating of just how pulling together all of these different facets of your lives to...I don't know if it's to build a profile, but the way that technology just affecting every single aspect of our lives is great and I'm particularly fascinated by the Internet of things. That's cool.
I'm also really interested in health techs in how there are so many advancements in that space, specifically as it pertains to mobile, that's one of the fasting growing segments of mobile is health tech. I remember when I first studied creating apps, I was working for a pharma agency. Pharma and health is very restricted and limited in terms of what they can say and what they can do, but there have been lots of advances in health tech in the last couple of years.
I'm super excited about that, as well.
Larry: & That's really super. I've got to ask this question, why are you an entrepreneur, Sian? Also, what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Sian: & Why am I an entrepreneur? That's a good question. I don't know any other way to be. I've just always been a little more independent than all the other kids. I was always that kid saying, "What else?" I was never just happy with one answer or the status quo. I was always a seeker and that's probably largely, that coped with my need to know how things work, probably laid the ground work for me becoming an entrepreneur today.
That, particularly, learning how things work and getting to the root of the problem and issue, whether it be a technological one or even a human resource issue, that's what makes me tick. I like figuring things out. I like getting to the bottom of things, so for me, that's probably why I'm an entrepreneur today.
Lucy: & Along this entrepreneurship adventure, as you will, because that's sort of what it is, who supported you on your career path? Do you have mentors or role models? Anything come to mind there?
Sian: & Even though, she never branched out and started a specific business, my mom really influenced me. She was always doing little side projects.
My dad was an entrepreneur, as well, certainly not in technology, but those are the people that I saw around me just doing their own thing and it always made me want to do my own thing, as well. Today, I look up to a lot of the other women in technology.
There are other women that are doing amazing things. Kelly Hoey of Women Innovate Mobile is someone that I look up to. I met her a year ago at a conference and she's been really supportive of my career and all the projects that I work on, so I certainly do look up to her, as well. But there are tons of women who are doing great things, now.
I'm super excited that there are so many of us in this space. It's great to just look around and observe all the amazing things that women are doing.
Lucy: & We agree. Right, Larry?
Larry: & Absolutely, 100 percent.
Lucy: & We agree. We can't wait, really, when all the creative ideas and thoughts of women are instantiated in our technology. We are excited about that.
Sian: & It almost makes me want to be a teenager again.
[laughter]
Sian: & Because I figure it's such a great time to be growing up and to be learning and to have access to so much. It really makes me want to go back in time a little bit.
Lucy: & Maybe, we could skip the acne or something.
[laughter]
Larry: & Just as a sidebar there, it was something that Lucinda said earlier, she actually did some of that software work when she was only like five, six years old. So she's not as old as some people might think.
Lucy: & No, I didn't. Probably 25 or something.
Larry: & With all the neat things that you have done over the years and so on, what is the toughest thing that you've ever had to do in your career?
Sian: & Let's put it this way. I've got two things to answer that question. If you'd asked me the question before a month ago, I would have said, the hardest thing that I've done in my career was quit a regular, great paying job to start my own company, because that was pretty challenging and that was scary, certainly scary, because you're giving up that "security" of a paycheck in order to do your own thing.
That was tough, but now, I can say, that writing this book.
[laughter]
Sian: & It's the hardest thing that I've done. I really have to tip my hat to what I considered to be real writers who are out there, doing this stuff every day, all day. It really was challenging for me to do it. I would say, starting my company and then, writing a book would probably be two challenging things I've had to do in my career.
Lucy: & I've heard writing a book is hard and now, I'm lamenting. [laughs] I guess I'll find out, Sian.
Larry: & You bet.
Sian: & You think it sounds easy because you do know it. It's all stuff that's in your head, but really putting it out there and crafting it and making it into something that people want to read, is certainly a process. I am in awe of that creative process. I'm not sure that I'm ready to do that any time again soon, but it was fantastic.
I learned a lot about discipline and I learned a lot about myself, as well, in the process. I definitely think that's...I'd be curious to hear what you think when you're done with that, as well.
Lucy: & I'm a little in awe of the whole process. Sian, if you were sitting here and talking to a young person about entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them?
Sian: & Always follow your gut. I would give that advice to any young person, but especially if it were a young woman. I, certainly, would tell her to really follow her gut. We, as women, are intuitive. There are times when we second guess ourselves for whatever reason. We don't always go with that intuitive nature that we're given. That's served me so many times in my career.
It's often the times that I have gone against it or I second guessed myself that I ended up making a mistake. I am like "I should not have done that." I knew that, but went against it anyway so here I am. That is probably the biggest piece of advice I would give to a young person. Follow your heart and go with your gut always.
Larry: & I love it. I am a father of four daughters. I'll make sure they get this message.
Sian: & Four daughters, wow that is pretty amazing. I have a cousin who has five daughters. For a good couple of years, he was the only male in his household. [laughs]
Larry: & What are the personal characteristics that have made you not just a good, but a great entrepreneur?
Sian: & I am stubborn beyond belief.
[laughter]
Sian: & I am insanely competitive. But, I can also admit when I am wrong. You can only be stubborn for so long, to be competitive for so long. If you know when you lose then the key is to learn from all of those.
I do think that being competitive helps. I look at a lot of situations as a competition as well. As competitive people, I want to win. I don't always win but my competitive nature makes me want to do my best regardless. I don't always win but I take the "L" when I need to. I learn from it.
Lucy: & That's a great phrase. I take the "L" when I need to. That's awesome.
You're busy and you have a busy life, you're so involved in your work and giving back, writing, and being an artist. How do you bring balance into your life between work and your personal endeavors? It sounds like you do great job and perhaps our listeners could learn something from that.
Sian: & This is a really important question. It's easy to get caught up in the rat race and to push ourselves beyond belief. There is this school of thought that entrepreneurship means that you are working all night, every night, no sleep. There is a sort of glory that is associated with that for some people.
Certainly I have pulled my share of all‑nighters. I don't make it a regular thing. I don't recommend that for anyone. It's certainly not sustainable.
The way that I bring balance to my life is that I'm a runner. I love running. I don't run races. I don't run marathons. I like to run by myself. If I have a rough day, I go home, put some headphones on and I just run as far as I can. I make my way back and that makes me feel great.
I also mediate. I try to do that in the mornings before work or in the evenings when I get home. That is a good way to set up the day. It's a great way to decompress at the end of a crazy day.
Those are the two things that have been constant for me throughout my career.
Lucy: & Great advice.
Larry: & Great advice, for sure. You've done so much. You've achieved a great deal. What's next for you?
Sian: & Lots of rest.
[laughter]
Sian: & Wrapping up the end of a pretty busy six months, I opened this space. I'm in Atlanta at the moment. I opened a co‑working space and communi‑tech center called Kollective South. I am trying to get that off the ground.
That has taken me away from the Bay Area. I've done all of that and wrote the book on Kollective Mobile in that last six months. That's a lot.
I am ready for some time off. I am looking forward to that as soon as I get this place up to where I need it to be. That's next.
It's a pretty ambitious project. I don't know how realistic it is for me to think that I am going to be able to get any rest. [laughs] I am certainly going to try. We're trying to open these communi‑tech centers in urban areas across the country in order to increase digital literacy and to bridge the digital divide. It's fairly ambitious. It's a lot to do, but I am super‑passionate about it. I'm really excited about it.
Larry: & If anybody can do it, you can.
Lucy: & I have no doubt. This is a great close for this because that is what entrepreneurs do. They don't necessarily see the end in sight. They set off, they dodge, they weave, they experiment, they fail, and they succeed. Through it all, they're driven by passion to get something done.
It's very commendable. Good luck with that. We are very eager to hear how that goes.
Larry: & We'll follow up on that, too.
Lucy: & Totally.
Sian: & Please do. I love to have a follow‑up conversation. I love to hear about your book as well.
Lucy: & [laughs] I don't know. We'll see it how that all goes. Sian, thanks so much for joining us. It sounds like you have a wonderful life. Good luck with all of your endeavors.
Larry: & That's a fact.
Sian: & Thank you for having me. It was awesome speaking with you both.
Lucy: & Remind listeners that they can find this at W3W3.com and also ncwit.org.
Larry: & That's it. You listen to it. It will be on a podcast as well as a blog.
Lucy: & Great, thank you Sian.
Sian: & You're welcome. Bye‑bye.
&
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Sian MorsonInterview Summary:& Sian Morson is a tech entrepreneur, mobile evangelist and strategist. In 2010, Sian founded Kollective Mobile to help other businesses and startups with mobile development and strategy. "I don't know any other way to be," Sian said when asked why she became an entrepreneur. "I've just always been a little more independent than all the other kids. I was always that kid saying, "What else?" I was never just happy with one answer or the status quo. I was always a seeker and that's probably largely, that coped with my need to know how things work, probably laid the ground work for me becoming an entrepreneur today."
Release Date:& December 6, 2013Interview Subject:& Sian MorsonInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 15:51https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/sian.morson_kollectivemobile_12-16-2013.mp3Interview with Leslie Bradshawhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-leslie-bradshaw
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-13974"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/leslie.brdshaw-founder-guide_7.15.2013.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Interview with Leslie Bradshaw
Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women in Information Technology or NCWIT. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;Hi, I'm real happy to be here.
Lucy: &nbsp;We are in love with this series of interviews, very interesting women from all sectors of tech with lots of interesting stories. Today, we are interviewing another serial entrepreneur who was named to the top 30 women in tech under 30 by the "Wall Street Journal." Very interesting and she herself has started a new company. Leslie Bradshaw is the founder and COO of Guide and this is a really cool company. It's sort of a visual news reader application for your personal computer. It takes all kinds of blogs and social media streams, online media news, then turns them into these video news segments if you will. With avatars and other cool stuff.
Lucy: &nbsp;I'm sure I'm not quite saying that right, and Leslie will set me straight in just a moment, but it sounds just fascinating. Before she started Guide, Leslie co‑founded and served as the president and COO of Jess3, and really helped them achieve their success. Landed on the 2012 Inc 500 list. So, a very successful entrepreneur. When she's not starting companies, she's a partner at her family owned vineyard in Oregon which sounds fascinating as well. Welcome, Leslie, we're happy to have you here.
Leslie Bradshaw: &nbsp;It's wonderful to be here, thank you so much for having me.
Lucy: &nbsp;You know, we have a couple questions about being an entrepreneur, but first why don't you tell us just a bit about what's going on with Guide. I'm sure our listeners will be interested in having an update.
Larry: &nbsp;Plus, we'll have it linked on the website.
Leslie: &nbsp;It's an exciting moment to be able to actually share some of the things going on at Guide. If you would have been speaking to me a month ago, everything was still in an alpha form. We were just testing it out with a number of private users. We are officially launched and you can download it if you have an iPad. We are, right now, number 3 if you can believe it, in the charts in the news category in the United States.
Leslie: &nbsp;We're also trending in a number of other countries, some of which are complete surprises to us because English is not the native language. A lot of the South American and Asian countries that are downloading our apps in force. It's so exciting to see that people really enjoy what we put out there. Certainly it's been resonating with thousands of people worldwide.
Lucy: &nbsp;It certainly sounds like an interesting app. Just a couple minutes, maybe, on what the technology is and what people use it for.
Leslie: &nbsp;Certainly. If you think about the app eco system around newsreaders, a couple of big players come to mind. You have Flipboard, for example. Flipboard aggregates your favorite online news, blogs, and social streams like Twitter and Facebook into a magazine experience that you can actively read. If you've ever used Flipboard, there are other platforms out there like Zite and Pulse. Those all do that in what, again, I call an active reading experience. I don't know about you or the listeners out there, but I have a very busy day.
I cannot read all of the media that I want to actually review. Having the ability to have a passive consumption model is very important. Things like [inaudible 02:59] and SpokenLayer are creating apps that just read you your favorite online news, social streams, and blogs through text to speech.
You have Ferry which is a text to speech engine. You have GPS which is a text to speech run engine. A lot of the other applications that I mentioned are doing that pure audio. Think about it for a second. Although audio is great and it's certainly helpful, I'm a visual learner. I know a lot of other people are, and most posts online include rich media like photos, videos, block quotations.
Sometimes the comments and social interactions are even part of the story and make it even more interesting. What my company does at Guide is we take all of the things I just listed off and repackage it in sort of a news broadcast so you can consume all of your favorite content through both an audio and a passive consumption experience while also being able to get the best of the posts if there are photos, if there are videos, again, block quotations and any other rich media that add to that experience.
We're taking the concept of news aggregation and curation, we're taking the concept to be able to passively consume news while you multi‑task, whether you're commuting or exercising or frankly even working at your desk on your computer, and we're taking it up a notch.
The way we're able to do that is not only through the technology of the aggregation and the indexing of the content but also through avatar technology which is very futuristic and very cutting edge and very fun to work with. It's something that we've been sort of promised through sci‑fi movies like Iron Man or even, frankly, some of the earlier stuff like Total Recall.
You had this kind of artificial intelligence newscaster. That's becoming a reality, because the technology is becoming just that good. That's kind of where we're at right now at Guide.
Lucy: &nbsp;I think that's pretty cool. Larry, maybe you can be an Avatar. [laughter]
Larry: &nbsp;Do I look like an avatar?
Lucy: &nbsp;That's really very cool. Congratulations on a great start. I think it's awesome. Leslie, why don't you give us a sense of how you first got into technology? What caused you to be drawn into the technical spaces?
Leslie: &nbsp;It's interesting. My educational background is one where math and science was always such an important building block to whatever I was doing. When I was very young, I can remember back, all the way to being 10 years old and going to a summer camp just for girls that focus on math and science. It was just a great time to geek out and play with Petri dishes to come up with hypothesis, test them, and come up with your evidence, and you end up with a thesis statement.
I feel like that's always been a part of my approach. It's always been very scientific. Now, coming of age in the late '80s, early '90s, technology was coming online but not nearly at that speed and quality that it is today.
It was something that wasn't a big part of my life per se, but it was always a little bit in the background. I would say it was more of an underpinning of the methodology of what science and what math can really enable.
Now fast forward into my college career and then coming out into the work world when I was 22 years old, that's about probably 2005 I would say, at that time, the second wave of technology innovation was happening on the Internet.
The first wave is that dot com boom and bust, and the second wave is really being driven by social media and by blogging and by a lot of democratization of the tool that enables social engagements and website creation and just tons of creation period.
I was able to catalyze on that moment much like the people catalyze on the moment that somebody [inaudible 07:20] around the Internet. This was my moment with my colleagues and my cohorts. What I started doing was going to a lot of user groups, going to [inaudible 07:29] , going to bar camps and just starting that dialogue around what these technologies were enabling, what they could enable.
Looking at my background, I'm not someone who look deep into the code and programming by the social scientists. As a business woman, I would able to partner with designers, developers, and strategists to think about what problems should we be solving, how can we utilize these technologies to help brands, help politicians, and issue advocacy groups.
I was in Washington DC for about seven years in my early career and through [inaudible 08:07] all the stages of the web as they continue to unfold, I stay very active and involved in the graphic community around it and learned a lot. I was able to partner with a lot of really wonderful, very smart, talented people who had very discreet skill set who needed someone like myself to help pull it all together towards an end goal.
Larry: &nbsp;That's very, very fascinating. I'm going to have to share that with my daughters for sure. Leslie, why are you an entrepreneur, and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Leslie: &nbsp;I'd like to say that it's genetic at some level. My ancestors came across the orient express six generations ago and have a very strong pioneering spirit, and my parents continued that spirit. They have a farm and vineyard in Willamette Valley, Bradshaw Vineyard. I watched them work hard my entire life. In fact, I don't know anything else. I watched my mother be the CFO, COO of our family business. She's an accountant by trade and does a fantastic job of leading the decision making on that by making sure that we're using the best technologies, the most cost‑effective things, and looking for different ways to get smart calf brace, and be able to really scale and expand at the rate that we want to.
At the same time, I look at my father who had the vision of putting the vineyard together and looking at how he's been able to use a lot of his ingenuity as a self‑taught engineer figuring out how to do everything from wire up 10‑15 feet tall wires that keeps animals out to putting together an irrigation system.
I worked hand in hand with him using Google Maps and Google Earth. We plotted out over half mile of PBC pipes of where we want to lay it. We produced the pipes, and it showed up that we were within 18 inches. It's right on the money. It's a really fun project working with them.
That's something that, again, I grew up just knowing what hard work looks like, what working for yourself looks like, and what dry designing and troubleshooting on the fly looks like. When I got into the work world, and I'm behind the desk and on track to go to law school and have job offers at the Department of Justice and a few big law firms as a paralegal, because I was thinking about going all the way to becoming a lawyer, it wasn't exciting. It wasn't like on the TV shows I was watching, right?
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;[laughs]
Leslie: &nbsp;It's not "Law and Order." It's not dramatic. It's just a lot of paper ‑‑ copying, sorting, printing, highlighting, finding, searching, scanning. That, to me, was not innovative enough, and not utilizing my abilities to the fullest. I'm an organized person, I'm very detail oriented, but it lacked something for me. I continued to look for more out of my career, as I continued to take additional opportunities that came up. I worked in television for a little while, working for John McLaughlin and the McLaughlin Group, which is on PBS in most markets.
I also worked in a crisis communications firm and learned a lot about how to communicate with stakeholders, internally and externally, during a moment of otherwise the worst case scenario out there ‑‑ whether it's an oil spill, or a product recall or some sort of outcome that you just don't want to have happen.
I also worked at a public relations and digital media firm, and was able to learn a lot about how to work with online audiences, how to work with the media, how to do media relations, how to create valuable, interesting things that people would want to talk about. Not just pitching them to say, "This is our story," but how can we create content that serves the audience that we were trying to engage?
All the while, technology was a part of enabling what I was doing. I was always utilizing maybe 30, maybe 40, percent of what I felt to be my full abilities. I kept wanting to take a car out and drive it faster and faster, but I couldn't because I was constrained by my age.
People looked at me and said, "You're 22, 23 years old. You do the thing that I ask you to o and maybe a little bit above that. Don't try to go and create a whole product line." I was really constrained by that.
I was also constrained by the vision of the people I was around. They couldn't see what I was seeing, either related to the opportunity around social media, around visualizing large data sets, which, as a practice, is generally called "data visualization." They didn't see the full opportunity of what online, digital, mobile and social really meant.
Of course I'm not saying that I was omniscient, that I saw something that others weren't, of course, taking advantage of in a much better way. There's Mark Zuckerberg founding Facebook and Evan Williams at Twitter, but I saw it in a way that others around me in Washington DC weren't seeing it.
Finally I said, "You know what? I'm going to go ahead and throw up my own shingle," and found a really great, talented web designer, business partner, who needed someone like myself with, again, the business and strategy, and client‑relationship sense.
We were able to build that partnership and build that company because, in spite of the fact that we couldn't get it going within the company that we were working at, we pulled it off to the side and said, "All right, if we think our vision is so strong and so great, we're going to go after it."
That's what really is the underpinning part of an entrepreneur, is someone who can see things differently and see what other can't see. Even when others are not believing in it and can't see that vision, we still go after it. That's exactly what I did when I was 24 years old.
I built that company over the course of six years and as you mentioned at the onset of the show, you made $8,500 in 2012 and I was proud to say that it generated $13 million in revenue during my tenure. That was all done boot‑strapped, all cash flow management, no outside funding, but was a very profitable, very successful service‑based business.
Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;That's quite a story. I'm so fascinated, too, with the experiences on the vineyard, the lessons you can learn about engineering and hard work. That's wonderful. In addition to your family, Leslie, who else do you consider to be your role model? Who else supported you along this path? The types of people, or surprising people, or what have you?
Leslie: &nbsp;One thing I like to think about, when bringing up an answer to a question like this is really looking at the axis of role‑modeling and mentorship. What I first look at is when you say role model, I look at that as someone who holds a position that I want to hold someday, or has a particular talent, or skill set, or visibility that I look up to. That someone could be at arm's length or could be miles away. I think of people directly in my industry. Specifically, Marissa Mayer and Sheryl Sandberg are both very strong examples of successful, female executives in the technology space that are succeeding because they're the best at what they do, not because they are women, or not because of anything other than they're just the best.
I love that Marissa Mayer's also the youngest man or Leslie00 CEO. I think that's something also to look up to and know that age, just because you add a couple extra gray hairs, doesn't mean that you're going to be better at something.
In fact, with the technology industry, by and large, the youth of our country is really driving that innovation because they're so close to it at a more native level. When I think of role‑modeling, I think of that.
Then I think of mentoring, and I think of mentoring as someone who takes an active interest in your career and is someone who has at least 10‑plus years on you, in terms of their career experience, and are able to help you navigate situations that you may encounter and may not know, "Oh, what should I do? Should I take this job? Should I negotiate? What are other the things that I should be considering that I'm not?"
As far as mentors go, I've had some really fantastic mentors. One of which Karen Zanderlane, used to be one of the partners at Price Waterhouse Coopers, and really has a good mind for operations, built her team, took it from two to 1,500 globally, so it really helps frame up my scaling and thinking around that.
David Reimer, one of her colleagues, founded both works, a company called Merryck, who does professional mentoring. David also has a great mind for global‑scale leadership and how to think about cultivating and retaining talent.
Another mentor, Michael Bloom is someone who I met through my alumni association at the University of Chicago. He took a very active interest in my career while I was in Washington DC and helped me navigate when I was at a company that didn't quite understand the vision I had, or helped me find another opportunity that did see that vision with me and shared that and wanted to give me the capital and wanted a way to run after it.
Another thing is sponsors, and this one's probably the most important. If your listeners haven't thought of this concept, I hope they do after this interview. A sponsor is someone internal to your organization, who's two to three levels above you, they're working an active interest in the advancement of your career within that organization.
It's one thing to get in context as far out into the distance, rock star poster up on your wall, like your Marissa Mayers. It's another thing to have someone external to your organization looking out for you, looking for opportunities, giving you advice.
It's quite another to have someone directly in your organization helping you block and tackle, helping you navigate the politics of the organization, helping position you to be the person considered when promotions come up, or opportunities to go global or to travel or to do other large projects.
You want to be top‑of‑mind and you can do that through your own grass‑roots, hard work and working with your colleagues and proving it with good work products, but the larger the organization, the more you're going to need someone at the top, advocating on your behalf.
I've had some fantastic sponsors in my life, one of which was at my first job in Washington DC, at Air Soft, a partner by the name of Dave Gregg.
He was global head of the trademark and IP side of things, and really focused specifically more so on, and did a great job advocating on my behalf. When there was more interesting work, I was the first name that he made sure to put front and center. I really appreciated that.
Another sponsor of mine, Peter Snyder, he was the CEO of Media Strategies, a company that sold to Meredith. I think Meredith Integrated Marketing is now what they're called. He was someone who looked out for me throughout the course of my three‑year tenure at that company and I advanced quickly through the ranks and was able to take on new advanced projects because of his sponsorship and support.
Those are just a few examples. Of course my parents, I already mentioned, are certainly role models and mentors, as sponsors. Those are three types of people that are very important to have in one's career and to make sure to keep cultivating, and giving back to those relationships, because they can be two‑way. They don't have to just be you taking from an elder career person.
You can actually help in return. What I typically do is help enlighten these folks as it relates to social and digital media, thinking about innovate strategies, thinking about innovative technologies. Also helping them think about big data and data visualization, visual story‑telling. Those are areas that I can come to the table, because I like all the relationships that I'm in to be a two‑way street and everybody to feel good about giving and taking.
Lucy: &nbsp;That was an excellent answer around the difference between role‑modeling, mentorship and sponsorship. These are concepts that people really do confuse. I would add that many of the mentors, or sponsors in my life, it's almost like a life‑long relationship, in addition to being two‑way.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes, for sure.
Lucy: &nbsp;Really great answer.
Larry: &nbsp;Leslie, you've been through so many things in the different companies and types of things that you did, even earlier in your career. Today, what would be the single toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Leslie: &nbsp;I think the single hardest thing to do is keep going. There's going to be a lot of times when an entrepreneur, even someone who might be an entrepreneur, someone within an organization, you're going to come up against, not just resistance, but flat‑out people standing in front of you saying, "You can't do it, you're not going to be successful." I've had people look me in the eye and tell me I'm a fool to think that I can make this work. Of course, truth be told, that just motivates me more.
[laughter]
Leslie: &nbsp;When you go and tell Leslie Bradshaw she can't do something, she'll turn around and prove you wrong. I will say that there are times that it meant not sleeping for two days straight. It meant pulling back‑to‑back all‑nighters to make something work. It meant making personal, financial, physical, mental, emotional sacrifices, beyond anything I could have ever imagined coming out of college, thinking, "OK. I'm going to work hard. Get a corporate job, work my way up the ladder," and do that thing that you read about when you're younger.
I love what Sheryl Sandberg says, in the book "Lean In." She says, "Your career won't be using a ladder, it's a jungle gym." You're going to swing from the left to the right. There's a lot of different access points to advancing in your career. Advancement doesn't even have to look vertical, it can look a little bit more horizontal and you can still have a great career out of it.
Re‑framing the way I looked at things and being ready to be tenacious and have fortitude. It's a long haul, especially if you're going to be an entrepreneur. I told you at the top of the interview how well things are going with Guide, and that's after 11 months of incredibly hard work, long hours, long weekends, and it's really just the beginning.
We only have six or seven days out of the gate with our [inaudible 21:49] , and we have a long road and relationship with them to continue to iterate our product to get it to where it needs to be and continue to evolve based on our feedback that we get. It's not always going to be easy.
Sticking it out is probably the single hardest thing to do. It would be just as easy to stop and say, "You know what? I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to take one of those job offers that I get through LinkedIn."
People are asking me to be the VP of strategy at some company. Just take a check and have someone else worry about cash flow and payroll, and user acquisition, user retention, and a lot of the other things that come with running a start‑up in this day and age.
The hardest thing is to also deciding when it's not a good idea to keep going. I think there's some really interesting dialogue around whether or not...How do I say this? There's the hype around start‑ups and there's this hype around technology companies as being the new cool thing. You're seeing almost like movie stars, or rappers. Technology CEOs and founders are being treated like the new level of royalty when you look at all the magazine covers.
Truth be told, when you look at those people's stories, and you hear what it's been like, something like a Pinterest, it took two to three years of really slugging it out before it hit mainstream success. You hear from the founders what it was like to stick it out and believe in their vision, despite the numbers not being where they wanted them to be, for not just a few months, but we're talking years.
A colleague of mine, at Peach Tree is Ellie Cossette, she wrote [inaudible 23:20] "Business Insider" and pointed out about a dozen stories or so from founders, CEOs, people involved in start‑ups, saying, "Not all that glitters is gold over here. Just because there's some hype going on and there's some great news articles written about us, and we're treating that everything's all good, doesn't mean it's all good."
It's OK to talk about some of those harder times. Whether it's missing payroll, whether it's being really far down on your bank account and having to raise money in a really stressful situation, or having to put in your own financial capital. Even deciding it's time to shut down the shop. Those are all things that are top of mind for me and the people I talk to, who are also entrepreneurs.
Lucy: &nbsp;That is a tough choice. "Do I keep going or do I change course?" It's very, very hard to do. I want to switch gears a little bit around the personal characteristics that you see give you advantages as an entrepreneur. Obviously, listeners will hear, in your answers so far, hard work, tenaciousness, creativity, things like that. What other types of characteristics do you have that make you a successful entrepreneur?
Leslie: &nbsp;I think one the single, most successful characteristics that I have, it almost doesn't even come from me, but it's the fact that I work closely and really love others. I would say that one of my biggest secrets, I'm going to go ahead and give it away today on your show, is that I partner with these very talented, very smart, very hard‑working people, who are the best at what they do. I'm good at what I do. I'm good at being a leader, [inaudible 24:56] strategies, [inaudible 24:57] operational track or something to scale. But then there's probably about 900 other things that need to get done in that company or a project that I'm not the best at. I'm not going to have time to as Malcolm Gladwell says, put about 10,000 hours in to be the best.
What I do is I have a running list of people who are the best at what they do in every major category of skill sets that I ever need. When the day does come when I may need someone who's a great front‑end web developer, someone who works really well with API, application program interface, or there's someone who's a great designer, or copy writer, or researcher, analyst, whatever it may be.
I do all that, I use a particular customer relationship management system called Contactually, founded by Lee Zan, who I had an opportunity to work with early on in my career. He's fantastic. I [inaudible 25:49] like a sales force, but I think it's a lot cooler and easier for individuals to use sales force as a bigger enterprise‑level version of this.
As I meet people and really enjoy working with them, not just because they're the best at what they did, but because they also had a great attitude. That, to me, is a true A player. I'm on the hunt for A‑player talent all the time. Even if someone has a great attitude, but isn't the best, that's not someone who makes my list.
Conversely, someone who's the best at what they do, but doesn't have a great attitude, I also wouldn't say that that's someone that I would want to carry forward in a project or a team or company that I'm building. My great secret ‑‑ partner with A players and have a good time with the people that you're working with.
Make it fun. Make it like a game. I did a lot of team sports all through middle school and high school, and some intramural in college. I always loved working with a group of stakeholders who were the best at what they did, for a mutually beneficial outcome. That's what I do now in my job.
We not be on the softball field trying to put together getting someone on first and rotating them all the way through, to get them into home. I might not be on the volley ball court, trying to keep the ball from hitting the ground. But I am, in a sense, still doing that by partnering with people who are skilled at various things, to come up with a great outcome.
Lucy: &nbsp;I bet that list is worth a lot of money. [laughs] .
Larry: &nbsp;Yes, it is. It is.
Leslie: &nbsp;It's my list and everybody's list is going to be a little different, because everybody comes at it with a different lens. That's the great thing about technology today, is that it enables you to do more with what you have. I look at it almost as an extension of myself and it's scaling myself too. Maybe before, say 20 years ago, you may have a Rolodex sitting on your desk. That Rolodex was really about when you were able to flip through it and, "OK, I need to look up this person," or "I have this particular vendor type that I need," You flip through it.
In this day and age, people are moving jobs faster. People are having more jobs in their career than before. How do you keep track of that? Do you keep crossing it out and flipping it over and scratching out the Rolodex index card?
Or do you have a dynamic system that's populating and pulling from things like LinkedIn, and Facebook, and Twitter and some of these places that are being updated automatically by the platform. I would say the answer is B.
In doing so you can do more. How more and the volume of people, it goes from dozens and 100s, to 1000s. My collective network of people that I can access at any given time is probably well over 20,000. It's not people that I stay in touch with on a daily basis, but people that I've interacted with and had a good, successful something or other.
I've done something for them, or they've done for me, or vice versa. I only hope to continue to cultivate and grow that through my career.
Larry: &nbsp;That is awesome. With all the different things that you've done and been through in setting up a new company, and everything else. How do you bring balance into your personal and professional lives?
Leslie: &nbsp;That's probably one of the best and hardest question that I've hassled, I've pondered, I've struggled, I've failed, and I've succeeded at. If I were to look across probably four or five areas of my life, it all hit me when I turned 30 years old, which for whatever reason is some milestone. It's a big milestone and I hit 30 and at that point I really took a bead and really assessed "What are the priorities in my life? What are the most important things to me? How am I spending my time?" Supposed priorities and then what is my time actually being spent doing?
My priorities, you've heard me talk about them a couple times now, it's my family. It's my parents, my sister, it's our farm. That's something that's incredibly important to me and I was not putting enough time towards that. I was pulling back‑to‑back all‑nighters and if my sister or parents would call I was usually multitasking and trying to get their email, while I was also trying to be there for them.
It was just not great. I was a bad daughter, I was a bad sister, and I never want to do that ever again. I kind of hit the reset button at the end of 2012. As hard as it was, I had to leave the company that I helped build. After six years I felt I accomplished a lot. In fact, I felt that a lot of the things I wanted to accomplish were done.
It was time for a new challenge. In leaving, it also gave me four whole weeks off. I unplugged, I stopped checking emails. I just spent time on the farm, just really decompressed, did a lot of writing, putting things in my journal. I did a lot of reading, a lot walking outdoors and I really got back in touch with where I wanted to be.
If this is what my first 30 years looked like and then I looked at my parents who are 60 and my grandmother who is 90. I looked at these third, third, third increments, I want to really plan smart for the next two‑thirds of my life, and, hopefully, even three‑thirds. We'll see.
One of the things at the core was family, and the second thing was health, and this was something that I was really, really neglecting, because what I was doing was I was working so much that I wasn't ever resting, and my brain...I was actually experiencing decision fatigue, and there was inability to access certain key parts of information. It's almost like the little, "file not found," hourglass just rotating in my brain when I was looking for information because I just overused that muscle.
I wasn't sleeping enough. I would average probably four, five hours of sleep a night if I even went to bed, and if you've ever tried to do that I think they actually liken it to having a certain blood alcohol level in your body if you're not sleeping. It really disorients you. I'm disoriented, I'm not sleeping, and it gets worse.
I'm not eating the right kinds of food, and even though I was raised on a farm, and how to do all the great kind of home‑grown organic...I knew what was good for me, but when you put yourself in a situation where you start trying to optimize for the maximum amount of time to spend on work, you stop cooking for yourself.
You stop grocery shopping, and you turn to ordering food. You're either doing takeout, or fast food, or, "Oh, we don't eat all day. I'm so hungry," and then you sit down and have a huge meal really late at night, and that was happening to me.
Over the course of those six years I gained 40pounds, and it was something that not only was it a manifestation of kind of being unhealthy, but it also... it manifests itself in other ways, too, just how I felt. My energy levels were lower. My ability to even have the stamina to make it through some of the long pushes and some of the physical work that was required at some of our live activations, I wasn't the same athlete that I was all through college.
And so what I did was I took a real strong look at my health, and what I did was I hired a trainer. I started investing in what I felt at the time to be kind of extravagant, expensive, but things like facials and massages and things that were kind of re‑instilling or revitalizing my skin, my teeth, my hair, like all the things that I was so rough on for so many years.
It turned out that after a year of doing that I've lost all the weight, I can leg press almost 800 pounds. I lift weights frequently. I go jogging. I can do just about anything, and I feel so strong and so healthy, and I get eight hours of sleep every night. I eat five square meals a day. I make sure I'm getting the right nutrients, and I have never felt more ready to take on the world.
I have a sharper mind. I'm able to see things quicker, and I'm just happier. And you can see it on my face. You can see it in my eyes. You can see it...it manifests itself all throughout the physical body that I have as well as the mental body, and those are things that are just so important, and I will never ‑ I repeat here for the public in public record ‑ I will never let it get that bad ever again. In fact, I will not even go in that direction. I will only keep taking better care of myself.
Family and health are two things that I put on the backburner in my twenties, but in my thirties and going forward I will never do that again. And if it means that I have to do a little bit less work or say no to a few things or find ways to delegate or bring others in to help scale out me and not try to write it, put it all on my shoulders and do everything myself then so be it, because tell you what ‑ it's not worth it. It just isn't, because your family and your health are the two most important things in this world.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's really great advice and discovering that at 30 is good. Many people don't discover it until they're 50 or 60 so it's great. It's a great message for our listeners. Leslie, our last question is maybe a little bit of a peek at the future, although I realize you've just made a transition, and it sounds like quite a happy one. Do you have any sense of what's next for you down the road after Guide is a 100 million‑dollar company [laughs] ? What do you see for yourself next?
Leslie: &nbsp;Well, I wouldn't be a great planner and strategizer if I wasn't, as you say, thinking about kind of the next 24 months, 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, but I have a couple goals I'm setting for myself, and I actually use an app that I highly recommend to folks. It's called Everest, just like the mountain, and in Everest you'll see that I have a couple of goals. One of those goals is that I'm working on a book right now, and that's going incredibly well, and, of course, it's about data visualization and visual storytelling, because that'll be something I'm really excited to share with folks hopefully early next year if it stays on schedule.
The next goal that I have is that I would like to be part of a company that does some sort of exit, right, and Guide is certainly positioned to be that company, and if it's not Guide, another company, but that's when you take a company that you've built to a certain level value and are able to sell it to another company.
The third thing that I have as a goal is somewhat related to that, but it's to build a company to a level that goes public, so goes to an IPO, initial public offering, and if you just watch Facebook, think of the IPO last year, and you think about some companies decide to sell, and some companies decide to create liquidity and value through doing an IPO.
And another company, Eloqua, which is an automated marketing company based in McLean, Virginia, and they were a client of mine for three years, and we helped kind of create a lot of the content and visual marketing as they were preparing to do their IPO, which happened last year. So those are kind of things I've looked to, I've been part of, I witnessed I guess from arms length kind of afar, and I'd like to be an active part of a leadership team that does that in the future.
The fourth goal that I have ‑ and these are all kind of goals that I have in the next, let's say, 10 years, this next decade. And the fourth goal is to be on a board of directors, and I currently serve on a kind of advisory board, and that's when I have an equity stake in a company that looks to my advice. My relationship has helped kind of steer them.
I work closely with a data visualization company called InfoActive, helped with a data driven storage company called Beutler Ink ‑ a little play on words there ‑ and also a really fantastic women's network called, "The List." And those are all kind of great starting points for me to get that experience as someone who serves at an adversarial level.
But to be on an actual board of directors of a privately held company or even at some point a publicly traded company would be a goal that I have for myself. Those are things in the next 9 to 10 years and before I turn 40 I hope to be a part of. We'll have to check back...
Lucy: &nbsp;I know. I was just...
Leslie: &nbsp;...we're creating here.
Lucy: &nbsp;I was just thinking that. We'll have to check on your 40th birthday [laughs] and see.
Leslie: &nbsp;Boy, I'm putting it in my calendar.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yes, well, you know, Les, this was great. You have perfect answers. Good luck with Guide. Just the best of luck. It just sounds like a very cool application, and I wasn't to start looking at it to see if we can use it here at NCWIT. So thank you very much for your time. I want to remind listeners that they can find this interview at w3w3.com, as well as NCWIT.org. Thank you very much.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes, thank you.
Leslie: &nbsp;Yes, it was a great conversation, and thank you for all your challenging questions, and really wish the best of luck to all the listeners and their entrepreneurial and entrepreneurial endeavors. [music]
&nbsp;
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/leslie-bradshaw">Leslie Bradshaw</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Leslie Bradshaw is the Chief Operating Officer at Guide, a software company focused on turning online news, social streams and blogs into video. In her role, she is focused on publisher relations, fundraising, marketing, product strategy, talent development and back of house management - "There's going to be a lot of times when as an entrepreneur, even someone who might be an entrepreneur," she said "You're going to come up against, not just resistance, but flat‑out people standing in front of you saying, "You can't do it, you're not going to be successful." I've had people look me in the eye and tell me I'm a fool to think that I can make this work. Of course, truth be told, that just motivates me more."</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2013-07-08T00:00:00-06:00">July 8, 2013</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Leslie Bradshaw</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">38:20</div></div></div>Mon, 26 Aug 2013 21:47:30 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-leslie-bradshaw#comments38:21Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Leslie Bradshaw
Lucy Sanders: & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women in Information Technology or NCWIT. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Leslie Bradshaw
Lucy Sanders: & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women in Information Technology or NCWIT. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: & Hi, I'm real happy to be here.
Lucy: & We are in love with this series of interviews, very interesting women from all sectors of tech with lots of interesting stories. Today, we are interviewing another serial entrepreneur who was named to the top 30 women in tech under 30 by the "Wall Street Journal." Very interesting and she herself has started a new company. Leslie Bradshaw is the founder and COO of Guide and this is a really cool company. It's sort of a visual news reader application for your personal computer. It takes all kinds of blogs and social media streams, online media news, then turns them into these video news segments if you will. With avatars and other cool stuff.
Lucy: & I'm sure I'm not quite saying that right, and Leslie will set me straight in just a moment, but it sounds just fascinating. Before she started Guide, Leslie co‑founded and served as the president and COO of Jess3, and really helped them achieve their success. Landed on the 2012 Inc 500 list. So, a very successful entrepreneur. When she's not starting companies, she's a partner at her family owned vineyard in Oregon which sounds fascinating as well. Welcome, Leslie, we're happy to have you here.
Leslie Bradshaw: & It's wonderful to be here, thank you so much for having me.
Lucy: & You know, we have a couple questions about being an entrepreneur, but first why don't you tell us just a bit about what's going on with Guide. I'm sure our listeners will be interested in having an update.
Larry: & Plus, we'll have it linked on the website.
Leslie: & It's an exciting moment to be able to actually share some of the things going on at Guide. If you would have been speaking to me a month ago, everything was still in an alpha form. We were just testing it out with a number of private users. We are officially launched and you can download it if you have an iPad. We are, right now, number 3 if you can believe it, in the charts in the news category in the United States.
Leslie: & We're also trending in a number of other countries, some of which are complete surprises to us because English is not the native language. A lot of the South American and Asian countries that are downloading our apps in force. It's so exciting to see that people really enjoy what we put out there. Certainly it's been resonating with thousands of people worldwide.
Lucy: & It certainly sounds like an interesting app. Just a couple minutes, maybe, on what the technology is and what people use it for.
Leslie: & Certainly. If you think about the app eco system around newsreaders, a couple of big players come to mind. You have Flipboard, for example. Flipboard aggregates your favorite online news, blogs, and social streams like Twitter and Facebook into a magazine experience that you can actively read. If you've ever used Flipboard, there are other platforms out there like Zite and Pulse. Those all do that in what, again, I call an active reading experience. I don't know about you or the listeners out there, but I have a very busy day.
I cannot read all of the media that I want to actually review. Having the ability to have a passive consumption model is very important. Things like [inaudible 02:59] and SpokenLayer are creating apps that just read you your favorite online news, social streams, and blogs through text to speech.
You have Ferry which is a text to speech engine. You have GPS which is a text to speech run engine. A lot of the other applications that I mentioned are doing that pure audio. Think about it for a second. Although audio is great and it's certainly helpful, I'm a visual learner. I know a lot of other people are, and most posts online include rich media like photos, videos, block quotations.
Sometimes the comments and social interactions are even part of the story and make it even more interesting. What my company does at Guide is we take all of the things I just listed off and repackage it in sort of a news broadcast so you can consume all of your favorite content through both an audio and a passive consumption experience while also being able to get the best of the posts if there are photos, if there are videos, again, block quotations and any other rich media that add to that experience.
We're taking the concept of news aggregation and curation, we're taking the concept to be able to passively consume news while you multi‑task, whether you're commuting or exercising or frankly even working at your desk on your computer, and we're taking it up a notch.
The way we're able to do that is not only through the technology of the aggregation and the indexing of the content but also through avatar technology which is very futuristic and very cutting edge and very fun to work with. It's something that we've been sort of promised through sci‑fi movies like Iron Man or even, frankly, some of the earlier stuff like Total Recall.
You had this kind of artificial intelligence newscaster. That's becoming a reality, because the technology is becoming just that good. That's kind of where we're at right now at Guide.
Lucy: & I think that's pretty cool. Larry, maybe you can be an Avatar. [laughter]
Larry: & Do I look like an avatar?
Lucy: & That's really very cool. Congratulations on a great start. I think it's awesome. Leslie, why don't you give us a sense of how you first got into technology? What caused you to be drawn into the technical spaces?
Leslie: & It's interesting. My educational background is one where math and science was always such an important building block to whatever I was doing. When I was very young, I can remember back, all the way to being 10 years old and going to a summer camp just for girls that focus on math and science. It was just a great time to geek out and play with Petri dishes to come up with hypothesis, test them, and come up with your evidence, and you end up with a thesis statement.
I feel like that's always been a part of my approach. It's always been very scientific. Now, coming of age in the late '80s, early '90s, technology was coming online but not nearly at that speed and quality that it is today.
It was something that wasn't a big part of my life per se, but it was always a little bit in the background. I would say it was more of an underpinning of the methodology of what science and what math can really enable.
Now fast forward into my college career and then coming out into the work world when I was 22 years old, that's about probably 2005 I would say, at that time, the second wave of technology innovation was happening on the Internet.
The first wave is that dot com boom and bust, and the second wave is really being driven by social media and by blogging and by a lot of democratization of the tool that enables social engagements and website creation and just tons of creation period.
I was able to catalyze on that moment much like the people catalyze on the moment that somebody [inaudible 07:20] around the Internet. This was my moment with my colleagues and my cohorts. What I started doing was going to a lot of user groups, going to [inaudible 07:29] , going to bar camps and just starting that dialogue around what these technologies were enabling, what they could enable.
Looking at my background, I'm not someone who look deep into the code and programming by the social scientists. As a business woman, I would able to partner with designers, developers, and strategists to think about what problems should we be solving, how can we utilize these technologies to help brands, help politicians, and issue advocacy groups.
I was in Washington DC for about seven years in my early career and through [inaudible 08:07] all the stages of the web as they continue to unfold, I stay very active and involved in the graphic community around it and learned a lot. I was able to partner with a lot of really wonderful, very smart, talented people who had very discreet skill set who needed someone like myself to help pull it all together towards an end goal.
Larry: & That's very, very fascinating. I'm going to have to share that with my daughters for sure. Leslie, why are you an entrepreneur, and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Leslie: & I'd like to say that it's genetic at some level. My ancestors came across the orient express six generations ago and have a very strong pioneering spirit, and my parents continued that spirit. They have a farm and vineyard in Willamette Valley, Bradshaw Vineyard. I watched them work hard my entire life. In fact, I don't know anything else. I watched my mother be the CFO, COO of our family business. She's an accountant by trade and does a fantastic job of leading the decision making on that by making sure that we're using the best technologies, the most cost‑effective things, and looking for different ways to get smart calf brace, and be able to really scale and expand at the rate that we want to.
At the same time, I look at my father who had the vision of putting the vineyard together and looking at how he's been able to use a lot of his ingenuity as a self‑taught engineer figuring out how to do everything from wire up 10‑15 feet tall wires that keeps animals out to putting together an irrigation system.
I worked hand in hand with him using Google Maps and Google Earth. We plotted out over half mile of PBC pipes of where we want to lay it. We produced the pipes, and it showed up that we were within 18 inches. It's right on the money. It's a really fun project working with them.
That's something that, again, I grew up just knowing what hard work looks like, what working for yourself looks like, and what dry designing and troubleshooting on the fly looks like. When I got into the work world, and I'm behind the desk and on track to go to law school and have job offers at the Department of Justice and a few big law firms as a paralegal, because I was thinking about going all the way to becoming a lawyer, it wasn't exciting. It wasn't like on the TV shows I was watching, right?
Larry Nelson: & [laughs]
Leslie: & It's not "Law and Order." It's not dramatic. It's just a lot of paper ‑‑ copying, sorting, printing, highlighting, finding, searching, scanning. That, to me, was not innovative enough, and not utilizing my abilities to the fullest. I'm an organized person, I'm very detail oriented, but it lacked something for me. I continued to look for more out of my career, as I continued to take additional opportunities that came up. I worked in television for a little while, working for John McLaughlin and the McLaughlin Group, which is on PBS in most markets.
I also worked in a crisis communications firm and learned a lot about how to communicate with stakeholders, internally and externally, during a moment of otherwise the worst case scenario out there ‑‑ whether it's an oil spill, or a product recall or some sort of outcome that you just don't want to have happen.
I also worked at a public relations and digital media firm, and was able to learn a lot about how to work with online audiences, how to work with the media, how to do media relations, how to create valuable, interesting things that people would want to talk about. Not just pitching them to say, "This is our story," but how can we create content that serves the audience that we were trying to engage?
All the while, technology was a part of enabling what I was doing. I was always utilizing maybe 30, maybe 40, percent of what I felt to be my full abilities. I kept wanting to take a car out and drive it faster and faster, but I couldn't because I was constrained by my age.
People looked at me and said, "You're 22, 23 years old. You do the thing that I ask you to o and maybe a little bit above that. Don't try to go and create a whole product line." I was really constrained by that.
I was also constrained by the vision of the people I was around. They couldn't see what I was seeing, either related to the opportunity around social media, around visualizing large data sets, which, as a practice, is generally called "data visualization." They didn't see the full opportunity of what online, digital, mobile and social really meant.
Of course I'm not saying that I was omniscient, that I saw something that others weren't, of course, taking advantage of in a much better way. There's Mark Zuckerberg founding Facebook and Evan Williams at Twitter, but I saw it in a way that others around me in Washington DC weren't seeing it.
Finally I said, "You know what? I'm going to go ahead and throw up my own shingle," and found a really great, talented web designer, business partner, who needed someone like myself with, again, the business and strategy, and client‑relationship sense.
We were able to build that partnership and build that company because, in spite of the fact that we couldn't get it going within the company that we were working at, we pulled it off to the side and said, "All right, if we think our vision is so strong and so great, we're going to go after it."
That's what really is the underpinning part of an entrepreneur, is someone who can see things differently and see what other can't see. Even when others are not believing in it and can't see that vision, we still go after it. That's exactly what I did when I was 24 years old.
I built that company over the course of six years and as you mentioned at the onset of the show, you made $8,500 in 2012 and I was proud to say that it generated $13 million in revenue during my tenure. That was all done boot‑strapped, all cash flow management, no outside funding, but was a very profitable, very successful service‑based business.
Lucy Sanders: & That's quite a story. I'm so fascinated, too, with the experiences on the vineyard, the lessons you can learn about engineering and hard work. That's wonderful. In addition to your family, Leslie, who else do you consider to be your role model? Who else supported you along this path? The types of people, or surprising people, or what have you?
Leslie: & One thing I like to think about, when bringing up an answer to a question like this is really looking at the axis of role‑modeling and mentorship. What I first look at is when you say role model, I look at that as someone who holds a position that I want to hold someday, or has a particular talent, or skill set, or visibility that I look up to. That someone could be at arm's length or could be miles away. I think of people directly in my industry. Specifically, Marissa Mayer and Sheryl Sandberg are both very strong examples of successful, female executives in the technology space that are succeeding because they're the best at what they do, not because they are women, or not because of anything other than they're just the best.
I love that Marissa Mayer's also the youngest man or Leslie00 CEO. I think that's something also to look up to and know that age, just because you add a couple extra gray hairs, doesn't mean that you're going to be better at something.
In fact, with the technology industry, by and large, the youth of our country is really driving that innovation because they're so close to it at a more native level. When I think of role‑modeling, I think of that.
Then I think of mentoring, and I think of mentoring as someone who takes an active interest in your career and is someone who has at least 10‑plus years on you, in terms of their career experience, and are able to help you navigate situations that you may encounter and may not know, "Oh, what should I do? Should I take this job? Should I negotiate? What are other the things that I should be considering that I'm not?"
As far as mentors go, I've had some really fantastic mentors. One of which Karen Zanderlane, used to be one of the partners at Price Waterhouse Coopers, and really has a good mind for operations, built her team, took it from two to 1,500 globally, so it really helps frame up my scaling and thinking around that.
David Reimer, one of her colleagues, founded both works, a company called Merryck, who does professional mentoring. David also has a great mind for global‑scale leadership and how to think about cultivating and retaining talent.
Another mentor, Michael Bloom is someone who I met through my alumni association at the University of Chicago. He took a very active interest in my career while I was in Washington DC and helped me navigate when I was at a company that didn't quite understand the vision I had, or helped me find another opportunity that did see that vision with me and shared that and wanted to give me the capital and wanted a way to run after it.
Another thing is sponsors, and this one's probably the most important. If your listeners haven't thought of this concept, I hope they do after this interview. A sponsor is someone internal to your organization, who's two to three levels above you, they're working an active interest in the advancement of your career within that organization.
It's one thing to get in context as far out into the distance, rock star poster up on your wall, like your Marissa Mayers. It's another thing to have someone external to your organization looking out for you, looking for opportunities, giving you advice.
It's quite another to have someone directly in your organization helping you block and tackle, helping you navigate the politics of the organization, helping position you to be the person considered when promotions come up, or opportunities to go global or to travel or to do other large projects.
You want to be top‑of‑mind and you can do that through your own grass‑roots, hard work and working with your colleagues and proving it with good work products, but the larger the organization, the more you're going to need someone at the top, advocating on your behalf.
I've had some fantastic sponsors in my life, one of which was at my first job in Washington DC, at Air Soft, a partner by the name of Dave Gregg.
He was global head of the trademark and IP side of things, and really focused specifically more so on, and did a great job advocating on my behalf. When there was more interesting work, I was the first name that he made sure to put front and center. I really appreciated that.
Another sponsor of mine, Peter Snyder, he was the CEO of Media Strategies, a company that sold to Meredith. I think Meredith Integrated Marketing is now what they're called. He was someone who looked out for me throughout the course of my three‑year tenure at that company and I advanced quickly through the ranks and was able to take on new advanced projects because of his sponsorship and support.
Those are just a few examples. Of course my parents, I already mentioned, are certainly role models and mentors, as sponsors. Those are three types of people that are very important to have in one's career and to make sure to keep cultivating, and giving back to those relationships, because they can be two‑way. They don't have to just be you taking from an elder career person.
You can actually help in return. What I typically do is help enlighten these folks as it relates to social and digital media, thinking about innovate strategies, thinking about innovative technologies. Also helping them think about big data and data visualization, visual story‑telling. Those are areas that I can come to the table, because I like all the relationships that I'm in to be a two‑way street and everybody to feel good about giving and taking.
Lucy: & That was an excellent answer around the difference between role‑modeling, mentorship and sponsorship. These are concepts that people really do confuse. I would add that many of the mentors, or sponsors in my life, it's almost like a life‑long relationship, in addition to being two‑way.
Larry: & Yes, for sure.
Lucy: & Really great answer.
Larry: & Leslie, you've been through so many things in the different companies and types of things that you did, even earlier in your career. Today, what would be the single toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Leslie: & I think the single hardest thing to do is keep going. There's going to be a lot of times when an entrepreneur, even someone who might be an entrepreneur, someone within an organization, you're going to come up against, not just resistance, but flat‑out people standing in front of you saying, "You can't do it, you're not going to be successful." I've had people look me in the eye and tell me I'm a fool to think that I can make this work. Of course, truth be told, that just motivates me more.
[laughter]
Leslie: & When you go and tell Leslie Bradshaw she can't do something, she'll turn around and prove you wrong. I will say that there are times that it meant not sleeping for two days straight. It meant pulling back‑to‑back all‑nighters to make something work. It meant making personal, financial, physical, mental, emotional sacrifices, beyond anything I could have ever imagined coming out of college, thinking, "OK. I'm going to work hard. Get a corporate job, work my way up the ladder," and do that thing that you read about when you're younger.
I love what Sheryl Sandberg says, in the book "Lean In." She says, "Your career won't be using a ladder, it's a jungle gym." You're going to swing from the left to the right. There's a lot of different access points to advancing in your career. Advancement doesn't even have to look vertical, it can look a little bit more horizontal and you can still have a great career out of it.
Re‑framing the way I looked at things and being ready to be tenacious and have fortitude. It's a long haul, especially if you're going to be an entrepreneur. I told you at the top of the interview how well things are going with Guide, and that's after 11 months of incredibly hard work, long hours, long weekends, and it's really just the beginning.
We only have six or seven days out of the gate with our [inaudible 21:49] , and we have a long road and relationship with them to continue to iterate our product to get it to where it needs to be and continue to evolve based on our feedback that we get. It's not always going to be easy.
Sticking it out is probably the single hardest thing to do. It would be just as easy to stop and say, "You know what? I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to take one of those job offers that I get through LinkedIn."
People are asking me to be the VP of strategy at some company. Just take a check and have someone else worry about cash flow and payroll, and user acquisition, user retention, and a lot of the other things that come with running a start‑up in this day and age.
The hardest thing is to also deciding when it's not a good idea to keep going. I think there's some really interesting dialogue around whether or not...How do I say this? There's the hype around start‑ups and there's this hype around technology companies as being the new cool thing. You're seeing almost like movie stars, or rappers. Technology CEOs and founders are being treated like the new level of royalty when you look at all the magazine covers.
Truth be told, when you look at those people's stories, and you hear what it's been like, something like a Pinterest, it took two to three years of really slugging it out before it hit mainstream success. You hear from the founders what it was like to stick it out and believe in their vision, despite the numbers not being where they wanted them to be, for not just a few months, but we're talking years.
A colleague of mine, at Peach Tree is Ellie Cossette, she wrote [inaudible 23:20] "Business Insider" and pointed out about a dozen stories or so from founders, CEOs, people involved in start‑ups, saying, "Not all that glitters is gold over here. Just because there's some hype going on and there's some great news articles written about us, and we're treating that everything's all good, doesn't mean it's all good."
It's OK to talk about some of those harder times. Whether it's missing payroll, whether it's being really far down on your bank account and having to raise money in a really stressful situation, or having to put in your own financial capital. Even deciding it's time to shut down the shop. Those are all things that are top of mind for me and the people I talk to, who are also entrepreneurs.
Lucy: & That is a tough choice. "Do I keep going or do I change course?" It's very, very hard to do. I want to switch gears a little bit around the personal characteristics that you see give you advantages as an entrepreneur. Obviously, listeners will hear, in your answers so far, hard work, tenaciousness, creativity, things like that. What other types of characteristics do you have that make you a successful entrepreneur?
Leslie: & I think one the single, most successful characteristics that I have, it almost doesn't even come from me, but it's the fact that I work closely and really love others. I would say that one of my biggest secrets, I'm going to go ahead and give it away today on your show, is that I partner with these very talented, very smart, very hard‑working people, who are the best at what they do. I'm good at what I do. I'm good at being a leader, [inaudible 24:56] strategies, [inaudible 24:57] operational track or something to scale. But then there's probably about 900 other things that need to get done in that company or a project that I'm not the best at. I'm not going to have time to as Malcolm Gladwell says, put about 10,000 hours in to be the best.
What I do is I have a running list of people who are the best at what they do in every major category of skill sets that I ever need. When the day does come when I may need someone who's a great front‑end web developer, someone who works really well with API, application program interface, or there's someone who's a great designer, or copy writer, or researcher, analyst, whatever it may be.
I do all that, I use a particular customer relationship management system called Contactually, founded by Lee Zan, who I had an opportunity to work with early on in my career. He's fantastic. I [inaudible 25:49] like a sales force, but I think it's a lot cooler and easier for individuals to use sales force as a bigger enterprise‑level version of this.
As I meet people and really enjoy working with them, not just because they're the best at what they did, but because they also had a great attitude. That, to me, is a true A player. I'm on the hunt for A‑player talent all the time. Even if someone has a great attitude, but isn't the best, that's not someone who makes my list.
Conversely, someone who's the best at what they do, but doesn't have a great attitude, I also wouldn't say that that's someone that I would want to carry forward in a project or a team or company that I'm building. My great secret ‑‑ partner with A players and have a good time with the people that you're working with.
Make it fun. Make it like a game. I did a lot of team sports all through middle school and high school, and some intramural in college. I always loved working with a group of stakeholders who were the best at what they did, for a mutually beneficial outcome. That's what I do now in my job.
We not be on the softball field trying to put together getting someone on first and rotating them all the way through, to get them into home. I might not be on the volley ball court, trying to keep the ball from hitting the ground. But I am, in a sense, still doing that by partnering with people who are skilled at various things, to come up with a great outcome.
Lucy: & I bet that list is worth a lot of money. [laughs] .
Larry: & Yes, it is. It is.
Leslie: & It's my list and everybody's list is going to be a little different, because everybody comes at it with a different lens. That's the great thing about technology today, is that it enables you to do more with what you have. I look at it almost as an extension of myself and it's scaling myself too. Maybe before, say 20 years ago, you may have a Rolodex sitting on your desk. That Rolodex was really about when you were able to flip through it and, "OK, I need to look up this person," or "I have this particular vendor type that I need," You flip through it.
In this day and age, people are moving jobs faster. People are having more jobs in their career than before. How do you keep track of that? Do you keep crossing it out and flipping it over and scratching out the Rolodex index card?
Or do you have a dynamic system that's populating and pulling from things like LinkedIn, and Facebook, and Twitter and some of these places that are being updated automatically by the platform. I would say the answer is B.
In doing so you can do more. How more and the volume of people, it goes from dozens and 100s, to 1000s. My collective network of people that I can access at any given time is probably well over 20,000. It's not people that I stay in touch with on a daily basis, but people that I've interacted with and had a good, successful something or other.
I've done something for them, or they've done for me, or vice versa. I only hope to continue to cultivate and grow that through my career.
Larry: & That is awesome. With all the different things that you've done and been through in setting up a new company, and everything else. How do you bring balance into your personal and professional lives?
Leslie: & That's probably one of the best and hardest question that I've hassled, I've pondered, I've struggled, I've failed, and I've succeeded at. If I were to look across probably four or five areas of my life, it all hit me when I turned 30 years old, which for whatever reason is some milestone. It's a big milestone and I hit 30 and at that point I really took a bead and really assessed "What are the priorities in my life? What are the most important things to me? How am I spending my time?" Supposed priorities and then what is my time actually being spent doing?
My priorities, you've heard me talk about them a couple times now, it's my family. It's my parents, my sister, it's our farm. That's something that's incredibly important to me and I was not putting enough time towards that. I was pulling back‑to‑back all‑nighters and if my sister or parents would call I was usually multitasking and trying to get their email, while I was also trying to be there for them.
It was just not great. I was a bad daughter, I was a bad sister, and I never want to do that ever again. I kind of hit the reset button at the end of 2012. As hard as it was, I had to leave the company that I helped build. After six years I felt I accomplished a lot. In fact, I felt that a lot of the things I wanted to accomplish were done.
It was time for a new challenge. In leaving, it also gave me four whole weeks off. I unplugged, I stopped checking emails. I just spent time on the farm, just really decompressed, did a lot of writing, putting things in my journal. I did a lot of reading, a lot walking outdoors and I really got back in touch with where I wanted to be.
If this is what my first 30 years looked like and then I looked at my parents who are 60 and my grandmother who is 90. I looked at these third, third, third increments, I want to really plan smart for the next two‑thirds of my life, and, hopefully, even three‑thirds. We'll see.
One of the things at the core was family, and the second thing was health, and this was something that I was really, really neglecting, because what I was doing was I was working so much that I wasn't ever resting, and my brain...I was actually experiencing decision fatigue, and there was inability to access certain key parts of information. It's almost like the little, "file not found," hourglass just rotating in my brain when I was looking for information because I just overused that muscle.
I wasn't sleeping enough. I would average probably four, five hours of sleep a night if I even went to bed, and if you've ever tried to do that I think they actually liken it to having a certain blood alcohol level in your body if you're not sleeping. It really disorients you. I'm disoriented, I'm not sleeping, and it gets worse.
I'm not eating the right kinds of food, and even though I was raised on a farm, and how to do all the great kind of home‑grown organic...I knew what was good for me, but when you put yourself in a situation where you start trying to optimize for the maximum amount of time to spend on work, you stop cooking for yourself.
You stop grocery shopping, and you turn to ordering food. You're either doing takeout, or fast food, or, "Oh, we don't eat all day. I'm so hungry," and then you sit down and have a huge meal really late at night, and that was happening to me.
Over the course of those six years I gained 40pounds, and it was something that not only was it a manifestation of kind of being unhealthy, but it also... it manifests itself in other ways, too, just how I felt. My energy levels were lower. My ability to even have the stamina to make it through some of the long pushes and some of the physical work that was required at some of our live activations, I wasn't the same athlete that I was all through college.
And so what I did was I took a real strong look at my health, and what I did was I hired a trainer. I started investing in what I felt at the time to be kind of extravagant, expensive, but things like facials and massages and things that were kind of re‑instilling or revitalizing my skin, my teeth, my hair, like all the things that I was so rough on for so many years.
It turned out that after a year of doing that I've lost all the weight, I can leg press almost 800 pounds. I lift weights frequently. I go jogging. I can do just about anything, and I feel so strong and so healthy, and I get eight hours of sleep every night. I eat five square meals a day. I make sure I'm getting the right nutrients, and I have never felt more ready to take on the world.
I have a sharper mind. I'm able to see things quicker, and I'm just happier. And you can see it on my face. You can see it in my eyes. You can see it...it manifests itself all throughout the physical body that I have as well as the mental body, and those are things that are just so important, and I will never ‑ I repeat here for the public in public record ‑ I will never let it get that bad ever again. In fact, I will not even go in that direction. I will only keep taking better care of myself.
Family and health are two things that I put on the backburner in my twenties, but in my thirties and going forward I will never do that again. And if it means that I have to do a little bit less work or say no to a few things or find ways to delegate or bring others in to help scale out me and not try to write it, put it all on my shoulders and do everything myself then so be it, because tell you what ‑ it's not worth it. It just isn't, because your family and your health are the two most important things in this world.
Lucy: & That's really great advice and discovering that at 30 is good. Many people don't discover it until they're 50 or 60 so it's great. It's a great message for our listeners. Leslie, our last question is maybe a little bit of a peek at the future, although I realize you've just made a transition, and it sounds like quite a happy one. Do you have any sense of what's next for you down the road after Guide is a 100 million‑dollar company [laughs] ? What do you see for yourself next?
Leslie: & Well, I wouldn't be a great planner and strategizer if I wasn't, as you say, thinking about kind of the next 24 months, 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, but I have a couple goals I'm setting for myself, and I actually use an app that I highly recommend to folks. It's called Everest, just like the mountain, and in Everest you'll see that I have a couple of goals. One of those goals is that I'm working on a book right now, and that's going incredibly well, and, of course, it's about data visualization and visual storytelling, because that'll be something I'm really excited to share with folks hopefully early next year if it stays on schedule.
The next goal that I have is that I would like to be part of a company that does some sort of exit, right, and Guide is certainly positioned to be that company, and if it's not Guide, another company, but that's when you take a company that you've built to a certain level value and are able to sell it to another company.
The third thing that I have as a goal is somewhat related to that, but it's to build a company to a level that goes public, so goes to an IPO, initial public offering, and if you just watch Facebook, think of the IPO last year, and you think about some companies decide to sell, and some companies decide to create liquidity and value through doing an IPO.
And another company, Eloqua, which is an automated marketing company based in McLean, Virginia, and they were a client of mine for three years, and we helped kind of create a lot of the content and visual marketing as they were preparing to do their IPO, which happened last year. So those are kind of things I've looked to, I've been part of, I witnessed I guess from arms length kind of afar, and I'd like to be an active part of a leadership team that does that in the future.
The fourth goal that I have ‑ and these are all kind of goals that I have in the next, let's say, 10 years, this next decade. And the fourth goal is to be on a board of directors, and I currently serve on a kind of advisory board, and that's when I have an equity stake in a company that looks to my advice. My relationship has helped kind of steer them.
I work closely with a data visualization company called InfoActive, helped with a data driven storage company called Beutler Ink ‑ a little play on words there ‑ and also a really fantastic women's network called, "The List." And those are all kind of great starting points for me to get that experience as someone who serves at an adversarial level.
But to be on an actual board of directors of a privately held company or even at some point a publicly traded company would be a goal that I have for myself. Those are things in the next 9 to 10 years and before I turn 40 I hope to be a part of. We'll have to check back...
Lucy: & I know. I was just...
Leslie: & ...we're creating here.
Lucy: & I was just thinking that. We'll have to check on your 40th birthday [laughs] and see.
Leslie: & Boy, I'm putting it in my calendar.
Lucy: & Yes, well, you know, Les, this was great. You have perfect answers. Good luck with Guide. Just the best of luck. It just sounds like a very cool application, and I wasn't to start looking at it to see if we can use it here at NCWIT. So thank you very much for your time. I want to remind listeners that they can find this interview at w3w3.com, as well as NCWIT.org. Thank you very much.
Larry: & Yes, thank you.
Leslie: & Yes, it was a great conversation, and thank you for all your challenging questions, and really wish the best of luck to all the listeners and their entrepreneurial and entrepreneurial endeavors. [music]
&
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Leslie BradshawInterview Summary:& Leslie Bradshaw is the Chief Operating Officer at Guide, a software company focused on turning online news, social streams and blogs into video. In her role, she is focused on publisher relations, fundraising, marketing, product strategy, talent development and back of house management - "There's going to be a lot of times when as an entrepreneur, even someone who might be an entrepreneur," she said "You're going to come up against, not just resistance, but flat‑out people standing in front of you saying, "You can't do it, you're not going to be successful." I've had people look me in the eye and tell me I'm a fool to think that I can make this work. Of course, truth be told, that just motivates me more."
Release Date:& July 8, 2013Interview Subject:& Leslie BradshawInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 38:20https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/leslie.brdshaw-founder-guide_7.15.2013.mp3Interview with Beth Krodelhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-beth-krodel
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-13968"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/beth.krodel-insightdesigns_7-29-13.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Interview with Beth Krodel
Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi, this is Lucy Sanders the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women in Information Technology. With me today is Larry Nelson from W3W3. Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;W3W3.com is happy to be here. This is a fantastic series and I must say I'm extremely impressed so thank you.
Lucy: &nbsp;What's shaking at W3W3? What are you guys up to?
Larry: &nbsp;We interview all kinds of really neat people. We have a business focus. We really love entrepreneurs and venture capital so we just get into that thoroughly.
Lucy: &nbsp;Today, we're interviewing one of my personal favorite entrepreneurs. She is also an award‑winning newspaper reporter from the "Detroit Free Press," I have to say.
Larry: &nbsp;I was born in Detroit so I like this.
Lucy: &nbsp;You were born in Detroit. Maybe she covered your birth.
Larry: &nbsp;That's right.
Lucy: &nbsp;You never know.
Larry: &nbsp;Maybe not.
Lucy: &nbsp;No, maybe not, but she is an expert at building companies and building websites and helping companies with all kinds of media needs. Beth Krodel, a co‑founder of Insight Designs Web Solutions. They're a Boulder‑based company, happy to say, right here in our backyard. They specialize in creating and developing websites and interactive online products. They've been a great partner with NCWIT over the years, and I can speak highly of their work, all the way from 3D modeling to websites to programming. They do it all.
Wonderful for all you listeners, take advantage of Insight Designs. They've been a mainstay here in Boulder County and have made the "Boulder County Business Report's" Mercury 100 list of fastest growing companies for the past decade.
Welcome, Beth.
Beth Krodel: &nbsp;Thank you.
Lucy: &nbsp;Really happy to have you here. What's going on with Insight?
Beth: &nbsp;The company continues to evolve, just like the technologies that we work with. We have, since 1999...We started by making websites, and now, obviously, that goes in a lot of other directions, because there's mobile and there's responsive design and there's applications, both desktop apps and mobile apps, native apps, all of that. We try to stay on top of a lot of different things. Some of the things that we're working on right now, that are exciting...One is a new desktop app that'll then have mobile versions to go along with it, that'll help people keep healthy. It helps them measure their fitness and their nutrition and how much fresh air they get and how much sunlight they get each day.
We also are doing work with social media, doing social media strategy for lot of our clients now. Obviously, working on lots of websites. I think we're in process on about 25 different sites for for‑profit companies, for startups, for non‑profits, for universities, list goes on.
Lucy: &nbsp;Sounds very exciting. I really think that application sounds like a keeper.
Beth: &nbsp;Hopefully, that's what a lot of people will think.
Lucy: &nbsp;Let us know when it's able to be purchased. [laughs]
Beth: &nbsp;Will do.
Lucy: &nbsp;How did you first get into technology, Beth? We have your background as a reporter. What caused the leap into the technology space?
Beth: &nbsp;Like everybody, when they are a child, they have a first experience and mine was in sixth grade. Back about 1982, my elementary school got its first computer. It was in the library and there was just one and it was an Apple II. At the same time, our English teacher had us reading books. I think she assigned us 40 different books to read. She said, when you finish these 40 books, you can go spend the reading hour in the library, each day.
I finished my 40 books by January and then I had, from January until June, an hour each day to spend in the library. I didn't spend that time reading, I spent that time on Apple II and exploring it and I was just mesmerized.
Fast forward to high school, I went to the North Carolina School of Science and Math and that's where I had my next big aha moment with technology. It was 1987 and one of the first things, I came in contact with, was one of the computers, that was just outside my dorm rooms.
I found that you could actually message students, on another side of the campus, in a fishbowl room, lots of windows, lots of computers. I realized that technology would really change communication. That fascinated me.
Since then, I went to college and actually studied physics, math and public policy. I went to Duke's and went into journalism from there. In journalism, I kept seeing all of these changes in technology, from the way we publish newspapers, to the way we communicated with our colleagues and all of that.
A co‑worker, a photographer that I worked with, Nico Toutenhoofd, he and I had talked a lot about what would be the next big thing. This was 1998. We decided that...We weren't sure how long newspapers were going to be around, in the way that they were around while we worked there.
We wanted to try something else. We decided creating a web design or development company would be a great way to go. It would carry on our commitment to communication, which is what you do as journalists, but it would allow us to share stories of companies and organizations specifically on the Internet. That's what we did.
Lucy: &nbsp;I think that's really interesting, too, because a journalism background, you can easily see it being so relevant especially to social media, right?
Beth: &nbsp;Yeah. There's a lot of story‑telling that happens online...
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Beth: &nbsp;...in social media, blogging, even in the content upon people's websites.
Lucy: &nbsp;Interesting.
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah, that's for sure. Now, here you've been through these different things, that is, working for a newspaper. What is it that makes you an entrepreneur, and what is it that makes entrepreneurship tick for you?
Beth: &nbsp;, I worked for "Night Raider" newspapers, and I did that for seven years. They're a very large company, and while I learned a lot and had a lot of great experience there, I also saw that sometimes when you work for a very large company change is difficult. It takes a long time. I was interested in starting my own business and having it be a small business, something that would be nimble, and where we could decide to take a new path and try new things on a regular basis. I like problem‑solving, I like sharing ideas and I like leading a team.
Being an entrepreneur allows me to do all of those things. My husband would probably say it's because I like being in charge and...
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs]
Beth: &nbsp;...my own boss.
Lucy: &nbsp;[laughs]
Beth: &nbsp;I'm type A and all those things, but ultimately, I still have a lot of bosses. They're just called clients. I'm not the ultimate decision‑maker in a lot of cases. It's ultimately the client. But I do like to help guide them and help them solve their problems.
Lucy: &nbsp;Along this path from journalism into technology, entrepreneurship, and I would also argue building and leading a company in this space, who influenced you? What types of role models or mentors or sponsors? Who kind of supported you along the way?
Beth: &nbsp;I would say early on, and a couple people I go back to throughout my life, were my high school math teachers actually, Joanne Watts and Helen Compton. Helen Compton actually also taught me my first computer science class which was the BASIC. I wrote a little program that wrote out the Chinese characters "Ni Hao", and then made the audio sound. I thought that was quite amazing that you could get a computer to do that.
Anyway, Helen and Joanne really taught me to be concerned about the application of whatever it is that you're learning. Not just to memorize formulas but to really apply these formulas, and figure out why it's important to learn them. That I've carried into all of the jobs I've had, whether it was journalism or Internet work.
I think that that carries on big‑time in terms of interface design and creating websites and applications that are very easy for people to use, whether that's someone trying to navigate or search for something in particular on a website, or whether it's for the company or the organization that needs to update the contents on the back end to create content management systems that are logical.
Another role model would be an executive editor at one of the newspapers I worked for. Her name's Vicki Gowler and she's still in journalism. She's a publisher of the "Idaho Statesman" now. She taught me a lot about business and about leading a team, about encouraging the people that you work with to do their best and to take ownership and to motivate those people to do great things. I've tried to emulate her in my leadership skills.
There are also my colleagues here in Boulder who run other web design and development in active firms. I actually get together for lunch three or four times a year with the CEO's of about eight other firms. We use each other as sounding boards, we share ideas, we share stories of things that happen with clients and happen with staff, and what would you do in this situation.
We all learn from each other. I get a lot of support from my colleagues.
Larry: &nbsp;Yeah, that's great.
Lucy: &nbsp;Interestingly enough, the person who taught me programming was my high school math teacher. We learned it was less than basic. [laughs]
Beth: &nbsp;Ours was pretty basic.
Lucy: &nbsp;It was less than basic. It was pretty basic or something. It was on a little Olivetti desktop in our classroom, so amazingly important these math teachers.
Beth: &nbsp;Oh yeah.
Lucy: &nbsp;Amazingly important.
Larry: &nbsp;Of course. One of the things that we learned about a great deal is the challenges that we faced. What is the toughest thing that you had to do in your career?
Beth: &nbsp;My first answer would be letting someone go from a job. As a business owner, as the person who runs the company, that job falls to me because we're a small business, there are 14 people here on my staff. That's the hardest thing. That has been the hardest thing. Luckily, I haven't had to do it very often in the 14 years that I've been running Insight Designs, but it's very difficult and it's very personal, even though you try not to make it personal.
I felt, in the couple of times that I had to do that, that it's a failure, and it's not necessarily just a failure on the part of the employee who doesn't make it, but also on my part because perhaps I didn't do enough to train the person or perhaps I wasn't a good enough judge of character or a judge of skill set when I hired the person.
That's something that I have struggled with. Then, in a broader sense, I'd say one of the biggest challenges for a company like mine, a 14‑person Web company, is the ever changing technology and trying to decide which types of technology we are going to invest in and really master, because there are so many paths you can take.
Just as an example, when we started in 1999, we decided ‑‑ Nico and I ‑‑ that we were going to use PHP and MySQL as our platform. PHP is open source and the equivalent of that in the non‑open source world is ASP. That choice was very important at the time and it's still been our choice 14 years later.
In the meantime, there's been ColdFusion and Ruby on Rails and a lot of other ways to do the same work that we do using PHP and MySQL. We have to take a look at those other options and decide which ones are worth pursuing. There are always new platforms and new content management systems. I'm sure you've heard of WordPress, and Magento, and probably Drupal and Joomla, which are all open source content management systems.
Those are the four that we've used the most, but there are also scores of others and you have to be selective. You can't try to master all of them or you spread yourself too thin. That's a challenge, just picking which thing that you want to focus on.
Lucy: &nbsp;That would be quite a challenge. Shifting gears just a bit, if you were sitting here talking to a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what one or two things would you tell them? What kind of advice would you give them?
Beth: &nbsp;I think being a successful entrepreneur takes a lot of structure. I think that's one thing that has helped our company along the way. There are a lot of people who have great ideas, and I think you have to also be able to execute those ideas. One piece of advice would be to make sure that when you're building your team that you have the operations piece, the execution piece, handled. Whether it's something that you're doing yourself or whether you find a partner who can tackle that side of things.
I would say another piece of advice would be to make sure that you are not taking on too much at once, not spreading yourself too thin, along the lines of what I've just said about the other issue of what's been challenging for me is to not try to do everything.
I know of some other firms that haven't made it in our space because a client has asked them to take on one project in this language, another project in this language, another project in this language, another project in this language, and then they lose a programmer and they don't have any way to maintain that particular project that's programmed in this language that they don't have anybody else on their staff that they know anything about.
I think that that often could be the beginning of the end for a small company. I think staying focused and making sure that you have both the ideas and the ability to execute them.
Larry: &nbsp;That's a very good advice. Now, I want to hear some more good advice, and I have a feeling you've got some here. On your personal side, what are the characteristics that have made you a great entrepreneur?
Beth: &nbsp;That's a hard one. You ask me about mentors before, and I didn't mention my father, but I do think that some of the traits that I got from him. One is a very strong work ethic, and another is perfectionism. I think both of those things have certainly helped in the success of my business. I also think that being a good communicator is crucial to success in any walk of life, but as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, a team leader, good communication is incredibly important to create an efficient operations, and, obviously, the more efficient you are, the better your business is.
Lucy: &nbsp;I can say that the perfection shows in the work that Insight creates. Super high quality.
Beth: &nbsp;Thank you.
Lucy: &nbsp;You're very welcome. I'll compliment you on that. It's very great. With all the things you've been doing in your work life and at the company, getting advice and talking to mentors and communicating with teammates, I also know that you've got a personal life and maybe listeners would be curious to know how you bring balance between your professional and your personal lives?
Beth: &nbsp;When Nico and I started our company in 1999, we created this list, a very simple list, of six guiding principles and one of them was to earn enough money to afford to buy houses in Boulder, and I'm proud to say that 12 of the 14 people on our staff own homes in Boulder now.
Lucy: &nbsp;No small feat.
Beth: &nbsp;Another one of the guiding principles was that we wanted to have a work life balance. A lot of people say they live to work, and then other people say they work to live, I think both of those are a little misleading. I like to think that life and work can go hand in hand and that you really can have a balance, and your personal life can accentuate your work life and vice versa. I do think that as a company, we've been very good about not having people work 50 or 60 hours a week, including myself and Nico.
Certainly, there have been times over the years where there's a big project and we've worked through a weekend, but we don't stay here all night and we prioritize so that we can all get home and be with our families, or go for our bike rides, or our hikes, cook our dinners, and read books, and do all those things that help us stay sane and keep us balanced people.
I'm very into math and I think that if you limit the amount of time that you spend in your office, that's going to help you have balance. That's not to say that when I'm at home I'd don't check email and I don't check in on projects and things like that, I do. I think in today's world, in some ways, that's a necessity, especially if you're a project manager or somebody who owns a business.
But I think it's important to try to limit those things. Certainly, I try not to check email in the hour before I go to sleep at night otherwise it might just keep me up all night.
Larry: &nbsp;That's good. You've already achieved a great deal. I know you started your business in 1999, and by the way, we launched w3w3 Talk Radio in January '99, so we can relate to you quite a bit that way. Now, you've already achieved a great deal. What's up for you in the next few years?
Beth: &nbsp;I think there's going to be some more fun in the application development world. I mentioned the one healthy habit app that we're working on, but there are others on the heels of that. I think a lot of the apps that we will do have to do with improving life, making life easier, making it more enjoyable. I can't say too much about some of them, but we'll help you organize your life and also keep track of all of your personal encounters. Let's just leave it at that. Beyond that, I think there are other things going on in technology that I think are exciting. I'm curious to see how soon certain things will come about.
One of the things that gets in the way sometimes when you're developing for the web, is obviously the speed with which users can experience what it is that you're developing. Processing power and Internet speeds are often the things that limit what we create. I'm sure you've seen that, Larry, with audio playbacks and obviously, video.
As people are using their mobile devices especially their iPhones and they're watching videos, and there's all this buffering and it's choppy, and all of that. I'm excited to see what happens with the companies out there that are working on new chips that are low power consumption chips, with outstanding graphics and processing power.
I think as that comes about, then the things that we can create that make use of that increased processing power, will be amazing.
Lucy: &nbsp;I'll bet Insight Design is going to be right there, right in front. [laughs]
Larry: &nbsp;I have a feeling.
Lucy: &nbsp;I guess, absolutely. Beth, thank you so much. Great answers. We loved talking to you, as always and I want to remind listeners they can find these podcasts at ncwit.org and also w3w3.com.
Larry: &nbsp;You bet.
Beth: &nbsp;Thank you so much.
Larry: &nbsp;We're proud of that, yes.
Lucy: &nbsp;Thank you, Beth.
Beth: &nbsp;Take care.
Larry: &nbsp;Take care. [music]
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/beth-krodel">Beth Krodel</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Beth Krodel (Beth Crow-del) is the co-founder of Insight Designs Web Solutions, a Boulder based company that specializes in creating and developing websites and interactive online products - "I think being a successful entrepreneur takes a lot of structure. I think that's one thing that has helped our company along the way." she goes on to say, "There are a lot of people who have great ideas, and I think you have to also be able to execute those ideas. One piece of advice would be to make sure that when you're building your team that you have the operations piece, the execution piece, handled. Whether it's something that you're doing yourself or whether you find a partner who can tackle that side of things."</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2013-07-08T00:00:00-06:00">July 8, 2013</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Beth Krodel</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">20:55</div></div></div>Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:45:06 +0000casey.sandershttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-beth-krodel#comments20:56Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Beth Krodel
Lucy Sanders: & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women in Information Technology. With me today is Larry Nelson from W3W3. Hi, La...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Beth Krodel
Lucy Sanders: & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women in Information Technology. With me today is Larry Nelson from W3W3. Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson: & W3W3.com is happy to be here. This is a fantastic series and I must say I'm extremely impressed so thank you.
Lucy: & What's shaking at W3W3? What are you guys up to?
Larry: & We interview all kinds of really neat people. We have a business focus. We really love entrepreneurs and venture capital so we just get into that thoroughly.
Lucy: & Today, we're interviewing one of my personal favorite entrepreneurs. She is also an award‑winning newspaper reporter from the "Detroit Free Press," I have to say.
Larry: & I was born in Detroit so I like this.
Lucy: & You were born in Detroit. Maybe she covered your birth.
Larry: & That's right.
Lucy: & You never know.
Larry: & Maybe not.
Lucy: & No, maybe not, but she is an expert at building companies and building websites and helping companies with all kinds of media needs. Beth Krodel, a co‑founder of Insight Designs Web Solutions. They're a Boulder‑based company, happy to say, right here in our backyard. They specialize in creating and developing websites and interactive online products. They've been a great partner with NCWIT over the years, and I can speak highly of their work, all the way from 3D modeling to websites to programming. They do it all.
Wonderful for all you listeners, take advantage of Insight Designs. They've been a mainstay here in Boulder County and have made the "Boulder County Business Report's" Mercury 100 list of fastest growing companies for the past decade.
Welcome, Beth.
Beth Krodel: & Thank you.
Lucy: & Really happy to have you here. What's going on with Insight?
Beth: & The company continues to evolve, just like the technologies that we work with. We have, since 1999...We started by making websites, and now, obviously, that goes in a lot of other directions, because there's mobile and there's responsive design and there's applications, both desktop apps and mobile apps, native apps, all of that. We try to stay on top of a lot of different things. Some of the things that we're working on right now, that are exciting...One is a new desktop app that'll then have mobile versions to go along with it, that'll help people keep healthy. It helps them measure their fitness and their nutrition and how much fresh air they get and how much sunlight they get each day.
We also are doing work with social media, doing social media strategy for lot of our clients now. Obviously, working on lots of websites. I think we're in process on about 25 different sites for for‑profit companies, for startups, for non‑profits, for universities, list goes on.
Lucy: & Sounds very exciting. I really think that application sounds like a keeper.
Beth: & Hopefully, that's what a lot of people will think.
Lucy: & Let us know when it's able to be purchased. [laughs]
Beth: & Will do.
Lucy: & How did you first get into technology, Beth? We have your background as a reporter. What caused the leap into the technology space?
Beth: & Like everybody, when they are a child, they have a first experience and mine was in sixth grade. Back about 1982, my elementary school got its first computer. It was in the library and there was just one and it was an Apple II. At the same time, our English teacher had us reading books. I think she assigned us 40 different books to read. She said, when you finish these 40 books, you can go spend the reading hour in the library, each day.
I finished my 40 books by January and then I had, from January until June, an hour each day to spend in the library. I didn't spend that time reading, I spent that time on Apple II and exploring it and I was just mesmerized.
Fast forward to high school, I went to the North Carolina School of Science and Math and that's where I had my next big aha moment with technology. It was 1987 and one of the first things, I came in contact with, was one of the computers, that was just outside my dorm rooms.
I found that you could actually message students, on another side of the campus, in a fishbowl room, lots of windows, lots of computers. I realized that technology would really change communication. That fascinated me.
Since then, I went to college and actually studied physics, math and public policy. I went to Duke's and went into journalism from there. In journalism, I kept seeing all of these changes in technology, from the way we publish newspapers, to the way we communicated with our colleagues and all of that.
A co‑worker, a photographer that I worked with, Nico Toutenhoofd, he and I had talked a lot about what would be the next big thing. This was 1998. We decided that...We weren't sure how long newspapers were going to be around, in the way that they were around while we worked there.
We wanted to try something else. We decided creating a web design or development company would be a great way to go. It would carry on our commitment to communication, which is what you do as journalists, but it would allow us to share stories of companies and organizations specifically on the Internet. That's what we did.
Lucy: & I think that's really interesting, too, because a journalism background, you can easily see it being so relevant especially to social media, right?
Beth: & Yeah. There's a lot of story‑telling that happens online...
Larry: & [laughs]
Beth: & ...in social media, blogging, even in the content upon people's websites.
Lucy: & Interesting.
Larry: & Yeah, that's for sure. Now, here you've been through these different things, that is, working for a newspaper. What is it that makes you an entrepreneur, and what is it that makes entrepreneurship tick for you?
Beth: & , I worked for "Night Raider" newspapers, and I did that for seven years. They're a very large company, and while I learned a lot and had a lot of great experience there, I also saw that sometimes when you work for a very large company change is difficult. It takes a long time. I was interested in starting my own business and having it be a small business, something that would be nimble, and where we could decide to take a new path and try new things on a regular basis. I like problem‑solving, I like sharing ideas and I like leading a team.
Being an entrepreneur allows me to do all of those things. My husband would probably say it's because I like being in charge and...
Larry: & [laughs]
Beth: & ...my own boss.
Lucy: & [laughs]
Beth: & I'm type A and all those things, but ultimately, I still have a lot of bosses. They're just called clients. I'm not the ultimate decision‑maker in a lot of cases. It's ultimately the client. But I do like to help guide them and help them solve their problems.
Lucy: & Along this path from journalism into technology, entrepreneurship, and I would also argue building and leading a company in this space, who influenced you? What types of role models or mentors or sponsors? Who kind of supported you along the way?
Beth: & I would say early on, and a couple people I go back to throughout my life, were my high school math teachers actually, Joanne Watts and Helen Compton. Helen Compton actually also taught me my first computer science class which was the BASIC. I wrote a little program that wrote out the Chinese characters "Ni Hao", and then made the audio sound. I thought that was quite amazing that you could get a computer to do that.
Anyway, Helen and Joanne really taught me to be concerned about the application of whatever it is that you're learning. Not just to memorize formulas but to really apply these formulas, and figure out why it's important to learn them. That I've carried into all of the jobs I've had, whether it was journalism or Internet work.
I think that that carries on big‑time in terms of interface design and creating websites and applications that are very easy for people to use, whether that's someone trying to navigate or search for something in particular on a website, or whether it's for the company or the organization that needs to update the contents on the back end to create content management systems that are logical.
Another role model would be an executive editor at one of the newspapers I worked for. Her name's Vicki Gowler and she's still in journalism. She's a publisher of the "Idaho Statesman" now. She taught me a lot about business and about leading a team, about encouraging the people that you work with to do their best and to take ownership and to motivate those people to do great things. I've tried to emulate her in my leadership skills.
There are also my colleagues here in Boulder who run other web design and development in active firms. I actually get together for lunch three or four times a year with the CEO's of about eight other firms. We use each other as sounding boards, we share ideas, we share stories of things that happen with clients and happen with staff, and what would you do in this situation.
We all learn from each other. I get a lot of support from my colleagues.
Larry: & Yeah, that's great.
Lucy: & Interestingly enough, the person who taught me programming was my high school math teacher. We learned it was less than basic. [laughs]
Beth: & Ours was pretty basic.
Lucy: & It was less than basic. It was pretty basic or something. It was on a little Olivetti desktop in our classroom, so amazingly important these math teachers.
Beth: & Oh yeah.
Lucy: & Amazingly important.
Larry: & Of course. One of the things that we learned about a great deal is the challenges that we faced. What is the toughest thing that you had to do in your career?
Beth: & My first answer would be letting someone go from a job. As a business owner, as the person who runs the company, that job falls to me because we're a small business, there are 14 people here on my staff. That's the hardest thing. That has been the hardest thing. Luckily, I haven't had to do it very often in the 14 years that I've been running Insight Designs, but it's very difficult and it's very personal, even though you try not to make it personal.
I felt, in the couple of times that I had to do that, that it's a failure, and it's not necessarily just a failure on the part of the employee who doesn't make it, but also on my part because perhaps I didn't do enough to train the person or perhaps I wasn't a good enough judge of character or a judge of skill set when I hired the person.
That's something that I have struggled with. Then, in a broader sense, I'd say one of the biggest challenges for a company like mine, a 14‑person Web company, is the ever changing technology and trying to decide which types of technology we are going to invest in and really master, because there are so many paths you can take.
Just as an example, when we started in 1999, we decided ‑‑ Nico and I ‑‑ that we were going to use PHP and MySQL as our platform. PHP is open source and the equivalent of that in the non‑open source world is ASP. That choice was very important at the time and it's still been our choice 14 years later.
In the meantime, there's been ColdFusion and Ruby on Rails and a lot of other ways to do the same work that we do using PHP and MySQL. We have to take a look at those other options and decide which ones are worth pursuing. There are always new platforms and new content management systems. I'm sure you've heard of WordPress, and Magento, and probably Drupal and Joomla, which are all open source content management systems.
Those are the four that we've used the most, but there are also scores of others and you have to be selective. You can't try to master all of them or you spread yourself too thin. That's a challenge, just picking which thing that you want to focus on.
Lucy: & That would be quite a challenge. Shifting gears just a bit, if you were sitting here talking to a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what one or two things would you tell them? What kind of advice would you give them?
Beth: & I think being a successful entrepreneur takes a lot of structure. I think that's one thing that has helped our company along the way. There are a lot of people who have great ideas, and I think you have to also be able to execute those ideas. One piece of advice would be to make sure that when you're building your team that you have the operations piece, the execution piece, handled. Whether it's something that you're doing yourself or whether you find a partner who can tackle that side of things.
I would say another piece of advice would be to make sure that you are not taking on too much at once, not spreading yourself too thin, along the lines of what I've just said about the other issue of what's been challenging for me is to not try to do everything.
I know of some other firms that haven't made it in our space because a client has asked them to take on one project in this language, another project in this language, another project in this language, another project in this language, and then they lose a programmer and they don't have any way to maintain that particular project that's programmed in this language that they don't have anybody else on their staff that they know anything about.
I think that that often could be the beginning of the end for a small company. I think staying focused and making sure that you have both the ideas and the ability to execute them.
Larry: & That's a very good advice. Now, I want to hear some more good advice, and I have a feeling you've got some here. On your personal side, what are the characteristics that have made you a great entrepreneur?
Beth: & That's a hard one. You ask me about mentors before, and I didn't mention my father, but I do think that some of the traits that I got from him. One is a very strong work ethic, and another is perfectionism. I think both of those things have certainly helped in the success of my business. I also think that being a good communicator is crucial to success in any walk of life, but as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, a team leader, good communication is incredibly important to create an efficient operations, and, obviously, the more efficient you are, the better your business is.
Lucy: & I can say that the perfection shows in the work that Insight creates. Super high quality.
Beth: & Thank you.
Lucy: & You're very welcome. I'll compliment you on that. It's very great. With all the things you've been doing in your work life and at the company, getting advice and talking to mentors and communicating with teammates, I also know that you've got a personal life and maybe listeners would be curious to know how you bring balance between your professional and your personal lives?
Beth: & When Nico and I started our company in 1999, we created this list, a very simple list, of six guiding principles and one of them was to earn enough money to afford to buy houses in Boulder, and I'm proud to say that 12 of the 14 people on our staff own homes in Boulder now.
Lucy: & No small feat.
Beth: & Another one of the guiding principles was that we wanted to have a work life balance. A lot of people say they live to work, and then other people say they work to live, I think both of those are a little misleading. I like to think that life and work can go hand in hand and that you really can have a balance, and your personal life can accentuate your work life and vice versa. I do think that as a company, we've been very good about not having people work 50 or 60 hours a week, including myself and Nico.
Certainly, there have been times over the years where there's a big project and we've worked through a weekend, but we don't stay here all night and we prioritize so that we can all get home and be with our families, or go for our bike rides, or our hikes, cook our dinners, and read books, and do all those things that help us stay sane and keep us balanced people.
I'm very into math and I think that if you limit the amount of time that you spend in your office, that's going to help you have balance. That's not to say that when I'm at home I'd don't check email and I don't check in on projects and things like that, I do. I think in today's world, in some ways, that's a necessity, especially if you're a project manager or somebody who owns a business.
But I think it's important to try to limit those things. Certainly, I try not to check email in the hour before I go to sleep at night otherwise it might just keep me up all night.
Larry: & That's good. You've already achieved a great deal. I know you started your business in 1999, and by the way, we launched w3w3 Talk Radio in January '99, so we can relate to you quite a bit that way. Now, you've already achieved a great deal. What's up for you in the next few years?
Beth: & I think there's going to be some more fun in the application development world. I mentioned the one healthy habit app that we're working on, but there are others on the heels of that. I think a lot of the apps that we will do have to do with improving life, making life easier, making it more enjoyable. I can't say too much about some of them, but we'll help you organize your life and also keep track of all of your personal encounters. Let's just leave it at that. Beyond that, I think there are other things going on in technology that I think are exciting. I'm curious to see how soon certain things will come about.
One of the things that gets in the way sometimes when you're developing for the web, is obviously the speed with which users can experience what it is that you're developing. Processing power and Internet speeds are often the things that limit what we create. I'm sure you've seen that, Larry, with audio playbacks and obviously, video.
As people are using their mobile devices especially their iPhones and they're watching videos, and there's all this buffering and it's choppy, and all of that. I'm excited to see what happens with the companies out there that are working on new chips that are low power consumption chips, with outstanding graphics and processing power.
I think as that comes about, then the things that we can create that make use of that increased processing power, will be amazing.
Lucy: & I'll bet Insight Design is going to be right there, right in front. [laughs]
Larry: & I have a feeling.
Lucy: & I guess, absolutely. Beth, thank you so much. Great answers. We loved talking to you, as always and I want to remind listeners they can find these podcasts at ncwit.org and also w3w3.com.
Larry: & You bet.
Beth: & Thank you so much.
Larry: & We're proud of that, yes.
Lucy: & Thank you, Beth.
Beth: & Take care.
Larry: & Take care. [music]
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Beth KrodelInterview Summary:& Beth Krodel (Beth Crow-del) is the co-founder of Insight Designs Web Solutions, a Boulder based company that specializes in creating and developing websites and interactive online products - "I think being a successful entrepreneur takes a lot of structure. I think that's one thing that has helped our company along the way." she goes on to say, "There are a lot of people who have great ideas, and I think you have to also be able to execute those ideas. One piece of advice would be to make sure that when you're building your team that you have the operations piece, the execution piece, handled. Whether it's something that you're doing yourself or whether you find a partner who can tackle that side of things."
Release Date:& July 8, 2013Interview Subject:& Beth KrodelInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 20:55https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/beth.krodel-insightdesigns_7-29-13.mp3Interview with Hilary Masonhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-hilary-mason
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-10855"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/hilary.mason-bitly_1-7-2013.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Interview with Hilary Mason
Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO for the National Center for Women in Information Technology, or NCWIT. Today, we're continuing with our series of wonderful interviews with women who have founded technology companies. We really love this interview series and are very excited about the person we're talking to today. With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3.com. Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;Hi. Boy, I'm really happy to be here. This is a wonderful series. It's extremely popular on our W3W3.com website. In fact, we archive all the interviews so you can go back and listen to them also.
Lucy: &nbsp;Also, listeners you can find this interview on the NCWIT website as well. Today, we're interviewing a very special person, Hilary Mason, who is the chief scientist at Bitly. We'll have to have Hilary explain it more precisely than I will, of course. But Bitly is primarily a URL shortening service, a bookmarking service. It really provides a fun and easy way to save and share and discover links from the web, by using links that they call bit marks. Reducing that URLs pretty important. Those things can get pretty beefy. You can't really share them very easily when you have only so many bytes that you can send along. This is pretty important to services like Twitter, for example, and others. Hilary's got a great job at Bitly. She's the chief scientist and her work crosses peer research, math and the development of product focused systems.
Another thing we know about Hilary. She loves New York. Absolutely loves New York. Loves everything about New York, entrepreneurship, I'm sure she's going to tell us about that. She also gave one of my very favorite TED talks of all time, Replacing Yourself with a Very Small Shell Script, which I listened to several times. Hillary, welcome.
Hilary Mason: &nbsp;Thank you so much.
Lucy: &nbsp;Tell us a little bit about what's going on at Bitly.
Hilary: &nbsp;You gave a great overview of what Bitly is. But it's a fantastic example of something that is extremely simple that becomes quite interesting at a large scale. At Bitly, we see the links that people are sharing across all their different social networks. These are things like Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, WordPress, Live Journal. Even strange places like YouTube or inside a virtual world like Habbo Hotel. Then we analyze the data in aggregate that comes from that social behavior. The kind of work that my team does is looking at human behavior through our social data. We work on things like building a search engine to try and find the most popular links about any topic you might be interested in. We also work on content recommendations.
Some other really fun applications that are only possible because of the data set that comes from that very simple mechanism of shortening and sharing a link.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's pretty interesting. All the social networking and sharing that's going on, we just redeveloped our website so we could more easily share our resources and also shorten our URLs. Very timely for us. Hilary, tell us a little bit about how you first got into technology and as you look out across the landscape today, which technologies do you find particularly interesting?
Hilary: &nbsp;The question about how I first got interested in technology was actually when I was a little girl. I was fascinated by computers. I taught myself to write code from reading the back of magazines when I was still in elementary school. I remember my first program. It was the Absolutely Wonderful 10 Print Hilary is Great 20 Go to 10 Run. [laughter]
Hilary: &nbsp;I thought it was amazing because it was an infinite loop and my teacher had no idea how to turn it off, who was even funnier.
Lucy: &nbsp;I know, infinite loops are pretty funny anyway.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes. [laughter]
Hilary: &nbsp;Yes, so I've always been fascinated by it and I always knew that it was what I wanted to study. Then I went off and majored in computer science. As to what technologies I think are exciting right now, they're so many different ways to think about that. On the human side, I think the way that I can carry a computer in my pocket that's more powerful than that computer I had when I was in elementary school is amazing. I'm excited to see how our devices interact with the real world in the next few years through projects like Google Glass and other sorts of augmented reality things, things people have been trying to build for decades. Only now has the tide caught up to the idea that people have.
I'm also really excited about data technologies and the way that we can use data. We have data available, we have compute capacity available. We can use it to make our lives better and more interesting.
As a throwaway side project, I went and got all the menu data for all of the restaurants that are not fast‑food restaurants in Manhattan and was able to find...If you want Thai food, you should go to the area around Hell's Kitchen because it has the highest density of high‑quality Thai restaurants in the city. That's something I could do in a day that never would've been possible even a couple years ago.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow.
Lucy: &nbsp;Things are changing really quickly.
Larry: &nbsp;Very quickly. I must say, just a couple days ago, a colleague of mine sent me an email. The link was so long, it was incredible and I get these long links from him frequently. I'm going to make sure I send him your website. [laughs]
Hilary: &nbsp;Definitely should. I think email is still the biggest social network.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes. Now, let me ask this, Hilary. It's two parts, all related. Why are you an entrepreneur and what is it about entrepreneurism that makes you tick?
Hilary: &nbsp;I've always had mixed feelings about the word "entrepreneur" because it's so overloaded in our culture and it's become really trendy in a way that I'm not sure is healthy. The way that I like to describe the work that I do is that I tend to find problems and then try to make things that solve those problems. Sometime those things might be hacks, like the one I just described to you.
At one point, we also built a door knob that you could text to unlock a door. That was very clearly a hack to solve a problem. It was not a company, it was not a product. Sometimes they're products, sometimes they're companies, sometimes they're non‑profits, like HackNY, which is an organization I co‑founded a couple years ago.
The way I like to think about it is more engineering the right thing to solve the problem. Not so much about starting a business just for the sake of being an entrepreneur.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's pretty interesting.
Larry: &nbsp;It is.
Lucy: &nbsp;What is it about that problem solving that you really like? Can you expand a bit more on that?
Hilary: &nbsp;Sure. It's very much my philosophy about how we should build and develop technology. I really think it should give us super powers. The ability to do something we really couldn't do before. We're extremely lucky to live at a moment in time, when if you're willing to put in the time and energy, it is actually possible to build things that have not existed before, that actually do make people's lives a bit more interesting.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's a great answer. I have to think a lot about your answer around entrepreneur being too overloaded.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes, me, too.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's a fascinating point of view. So far along your career path, who would you say influenced you? Who would your role models be, or your mentors?
Hilary: &nbsp;That's a really wonderful question. I've had a few. One of them is definitely my mother, who, in her retirement years, went and became a ski instructor. Because it was something she really wanted to do. Now she's kicking ass with people much younger than her and having a great time. But really, I realized a couple years ago that the idea of entrepreneurship has always been in my family. I think it's also tied to the traits of stubbornness and impatience that tend to run in our family as well. But several people in my family who I admire, including my dad, have started their own businesses. Generally doing something that was not entirely normal. So, creating a solution to something that had never quite existed before.
I've also really been inspired by certain authors. People who write things that just change the way you think about the world. In computer science, I've been reading the work of Richard Hamming, who was a mathematician who worked on the Manhattan Project and taught at West Point for many years. He has a wonderful book called On Science and Engineering that has quotes like, "In science, if you know what you're doing, you should stop. In engineering, if you don't know what you're doing, you should stop."
Most of us live in the middle of that. I'd highly recommend it to any scientist and engineer.
Lucy: &nbsp;I need to get out and read it because I love quotes like that.
Larry: &nbsp;Boy, yeah, me, too.
Lucy: &nbsp;I think that's really interesting.
Larry: &nbsp;You've done so many different things. I want to congratulate you for that. But let me just ask you this... What is the toughest thing that you've ever had to do in your career?
Hilary: &nbsp;Wow. Thank you. I really feel like I'm just getting started so it's really a pleasure to hear something like that. I think the toughest thing I ever had to do, and this may be an artifact of my own failings and weaknesses, is that it took me a long time to realize that, to succeed at anything, you really need other people to want you to succeed. And you need their help. The hardest thing, for me, was to learn how to get other people excited about the things I'm excited about and to work with them, hopefully helping them at the same time, to build things together in a community.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's a hard lesson for, I think, a lot of people. That kind of a lesson, they don't teach that in school.
Larry: &nbsp;Nope.
Hilary: &nbsp;Not at all. Especially for somebody who grew up very nerdy and very independent, it's a hard thing to realize that you really do need other people to accomplish what you want to accomplish.
Lucy: &nbsp;That leads directly to being able to communicate about, to be able to enlist people to be passionate about it in some external way, right?
Hilary: &nbsp;Absolutely.
Lucy: &nbsp;So that people can really sign on. When I worked at Bell Labs we had, obviously, hundreds and hundreds of engineers who had to excite other engineers about their approaches. Many of us had to learn that the hard way. That's a great lesson to learn for anybody, entrepreneur or not, I think. I you were sitting here, though, with a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, given our prior conversation about the word itself... But given that we'll call it that for now. If you were giving a young person advice, what would you tell them?
Hilary: &nbsp;Funny. I was invited to speak to a bunch of college students from NYU on Saturday. I spent quite a long time thinking about the answer to this question. I actually do have one for you. My answer to that is just to have adventures and to say yes when you're not sure about something. You're going to learn something fascinating along the way.
Larry: &nbsp;That's really good. I like that.
Hilary: &nbsp;Also, if you keep that spirit of adventure with you, even if the thing you're doing is a total failure, you'll have had a great time. It doesn't matter.
Lucy: &nbsp;This is important for technologists, especially, because technology's on the edge. Like Hilary and others, who are inventing new things. That whole invention process is really an adventure. You can't invent something you already know what the end is.
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs] Yes.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's a pretty important observation.
Larry: &nbsp;There's a real good question here that's good for any entrepreneur. They ought to take a look at it. That is, how do you, Hilary, bring balance into your personal and your professional lives?
Hilary: &nbsp;Another good question. It's one that, I think, we tend to set up personal life and work life as if they're diametrically opposed and they're two things that should have a wall between them. I don't really look at it that way. I try and make sure I enjoy what I'm doing in my professional life. I try to make sure that it doesn't overwhelm what I'm doing in my personal life. But, in general, a lot of the things that I do are on that line of both. Where, for example, I'm taking a trip to San Francisco this week. I'm giving three talks. That's definitely professional. I'm also meeting up with friends. It's going to be a great time. I think it is a challenge. But it's one that, as long as you're happy, it's OK.
Lucy: &nbsp;That blended answer, we get that a lot. One of our most popular answers and also an answer that says, "What balance?"
Larry: &nbsp;[laughs] Yeah.
Lucy: &nbsp;Totally imbalanced. You've already achieved a lot. You mentioned you were just starting out. You mentioned your love of adventure and always keeping that adventuresome attitude. What can you say about your next big adventure?
Hilary: &nbsp;That's really a good question and one that I try to think about quite a lot. There are a couple of things I'm pretty excited about that I don't think have really caught on in the community, which means it might be an opportunity. Or it might be a terrible idea. I'd like to pursue those things. In general, themes around how technology can help us be better people.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's interesting. That's one of the themes today, in fact, as the beginning of computer science education week. Some of the themes around technology to serve the world, technology to make people better, those are great things.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes, absolutely. I love it.
Lucy: &nbsp;Well, thank you so much, Hilary. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Have fun on your trip to San Francisco.
Hilary: &nbsp;It's been great speaking with both of you, too.
Lucy: &nbsp;I just want to remind listeners that they can find this interview at w3w.com and ncwit.org.
Larry: &nbsp;All right.
Lucy: &nbsp;All right, thank you.
Larry: &nbsp;Thanks Hilary.
Hilary: &nbsp;Thank you.
Lucy: &nbsp;Have a safe trip and have fun. [music]
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/hilary-mason">Hilary Mason</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Hilary Mason, Chief Scientist at bitly, describes problem solving and the development of technology as a super power - "the ability to do something we really couldn't do before." She goes on to say "we're extremely lucky to live at a moment in time, when if you're willing to put in the time and energy, it is actually possible to build things that have not existed before, that actually do make people's lives a bit more interesting.</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2013-02-01T00:00:00-07:00">February 1, 2013</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Hilary Mason</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">13:57</div></div></div>Fri, 01 Feb 2013 23:25:14 +0000lauren.vonroennhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-hilary-mason#comments13:58Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Hilary Mason
Lucy Sanders: & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO for the National Center for Women in Information Technology, or NCWIT. Today, we're continuing with our seri...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Hilary Mason
Lucy Sanders: & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO for the National Center for Women in Information Technology, or NCWIT. Today, we're continuing with our series of wonderful interviews with women who have founded technology companies. We really love this interview series and are very excited about the person we're talking to today. With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3.com. Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson: & Hi. Boy, I'm really happy to be here. This is a wonderful series. It's extremely popular on our W3W3.com website. In fact, we archive all the interviews so you can go back and listen to them also.
Lucy: & Also, listeners you can find this interview on the NCWIT website as well. Today, we're interviewing a very special person, Hilary Mason, who is the chief scientist at Bitly. We'll have to have Hilary explain it more precisely than I will, of course. But Bitly is primarily a URL shortening service, a bookmarking service. It really provides a fun and easy way to save and share and discover links from the web, by using links that they call bit marks. Reducing that URLs pretty important. Those things can get pretty beefy. You can't really share them very easily when you have only so many bytes that you can send along. This is pretty important to services like Twitter, for example, and others. Hilary's got a great job at Bitly. She's the chief scientist and her work crosses peer research, math and the development of product focused systems.
Another thing we know about Hilary. She loves New York. Absolutely loves New York. Loves everything about New York, entrepreneurship, I'm sure she's going to tell us about that. She also gave one of my very favorite TED talks of all time, Replacing Yourself with a Very Small Shell Script, which I listened to several times. Hillary, welcome.
Hilary Mason: & Thank you so much.
Lucy: & Tell us a little bit about what's going on at Bitly.
Hilary: & You gave a great overview of what Bitly is. But it's a fantastic example of something that is extremely simple that becomes quite interesting at a large scale. At Bitly, we see the links that people are sharing across all their different social networks. These are things like Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, WordPress, Live Journal. Even strange places like YouTube or inside a virtual world like Habbo Hotel. Then we analyze the data in aggregate that comes from that social behavior. The kind of work that my team does is looking at human behavior through our social data. We work on things like building a search engine to try and find the most popular links about any topic you might be interested in. We also work on content recommendations.
Some other really fun applications that are only possible because of the data set that comes from that very simple mechanism of shortening and sharing a link.
Larry: & Wow.
Lucy: & That's pretty interesting. All the social networking and sharing that's going on, we just redeveloped our website so we could more easily share our resources and also shorten our URLs. Very timely for us. Hilary, tell us a little bit about how you first got into technology and as you look out across the landscape today, which technologies do you find particularly interesting?
Hilary: & The question about how I first got interested in technology was actually when I was a little girl. I was fascinated by computers. I taught myself to write code from reading the back of magazines when I was still in elementary school. I remember my first program. It was the Absolutely Wonderful 10 Print Hilary is Great 20 Go to 10 Run. [laughter]
Hilary: & I thought it was amazing because it was an infinite loop and my teacher had no idea how to turn it off, who was even funnier.
Lucy: & I know, infinite loops are pretty funny anyway.
Larry: & Yes. [laughter]
Hilary: & Yes, so I've always been fascinated by it and I always knew that it was what I wanted to study. Then I went off and majored in computer science. As to what technologies I think are exciting right now, they're so many different ways to think about that. On the human side, I think the way that I can carry a computer in my pocket that's more powerful than that computer I had when I was in elementary school is amazing. I'm excited to see how our devices interact with the real world in the next few years through projects like Google Glass and other sorts of augmented reality things, things people have been trying to build for decades. Only now has the tide caught up to the idea that people have.
I'm also really excited about data technologies and the way that we can use data. We have data available, we have compute capacity available. We can use it to make our lives better and more interesting.
As a throwaway side project, I went and got all the menu data for all of the restaurants that are not fast‑food restaurants in Manhattan and was able to find...If you want Thai food, you should go to the area around Hell's Kitchen because it has the highest density of high‑quality Thai restaurants in the city. That's something I could do in a day that never would've been possible even a couple years ago.
Larry: & Wow.
Lucy: & Things are changing really quickly.
Larry: & Very quickly. I must say, just a couple days ago, a colleague of mine sent me an email. The link was so long, it was incredible and I get these long links from him frequently. I'm going to make sure I send him your website. [laughs]
Hilary: & Definitely should. I think email is still the biggest social network.
Larry: & Yes. Now, let me ask this, Hilary. It's two parts, all related. Why are you an entrepreneur and what is it about entrepreneurism that makes you tick?
Hilary: & I've always had mixed feelings about the word "entrepreneur" because it's so overloaded in our culture and it's become really trendy in a way that I'm not sure is healthy. The way that I like to describe the work that I do is that I tend to find problems and then try to make things that solve those problems. Sometime those things might be hacks, like the one I just described to you.
At one point, we also built a door knob that you could text to unlock a door. That was very clearly a hack to solve a problem. It was not a company, it was not a product. Sometimes they're products, sometimes they're companies, sometimes they're non‑profits, like HackNY, which is an organization I co‑founded a couple years ago.
The way I like to think about it is more engineering the right thing to solve the problem. Not so much about starting a business just for the sake of being an entrepreneur.
Lucy: & That's pretty interesting.
Larry: & It is.
Lucy: & What is it about that problem solving that you really like? Can you expand a bit more on that?
Hilary: & Sure. It's very much my philosophy about how we should build and develop technology. I really think it should give us super powers. The ability to do something we really couldn't do before. We're extremely lucky to live at a moment in time, when if you're willing to put in the time and energy, it is actually possible to build things that have not existed before, that actually do make people's lives a bit more interesting.
Lucy: & That's a great answer. I have to think a lot about your answer around entrepreneur being too overloaded.
Larry: & Yes, me, too.
Lucy: & That's a fascinating point of view. So far along your career path, who would you say influenced you? Who would your role models be, or your mentors?
Hilary: & That's a really wonderful question. I've had a few. One of them is definitely my mother, who, in her retirement years, went and became a ski instructor. Because it was something she really wanted to do. Now she's kicking ass with people much younger than her and having a great time. But really, I realized a couple years ago that the idea of entrepreneurship has always been in my family. I think it's also tied to the traits of stubbornness and impatience that tend to run in our family as well. But several people in my family who I admire, including my dad, have started their own businesses. Generally doing something that was not entirely normal. So, creating a solution to something that had never quite existed before.
I've also really been inspired by certain authors. People who write things that just change the way you think about the world. In computer science, I've been reading the work of Richard Hamming, who was a mathematician who worked on the Manhattan Project and taught at West Point for many years. He has a wonderful book called On Science and Engineering that has quotes like, "In science, if you know what you're doing, you should stop. In engineering, if you don't know what you're doing, you should stop."
Most of us live in the middle of that. I'd highly recommend it to any scientist and engineer.
Lucy: & I need to get out and read it because I love quotes like that.
Larry: & Boy, yeah, me, too.
Lucy: & I think that's really interesting.
Larry: & You've done so many different things. I want to congratulate you for that. But let me just ask you this... What is the toughest thing that you've ever had to do in your career?
Hilary: & Wow. Thank you. I really feel like I'm just getting started so it's really a pleasure to hear something like that. I think the toughest thing I ever had to do, and this may be an artifact of my own failings and weaknesses, is that it took me a long time to realize that, to succeed at anything, you really need other people to want you to succeed. And you need their help. The hardest thing, for me, was to learn how to get other people excited about the things I'm excited about and to work with them, hopefully helping them at the same time, to build things together in a community.
Lucy: & That's a hard lesson for, I think, a lot of people. That kind of a lesson, they don't teach that in school.
Larry: & Nope.
Hilary: & Not at all. Especially for somebody who grew up very nerdy and very independent, it's a hard thing to realize that you really do need other people to accomplish what you want to accomplish.
Lucy: & That leads directly to being able to communicate about, to be able to enlist people to be passionate about it in some external way, right?
Hilary: & Absolutely.
Lucy: & So that people can really sign on. When I worked at Bell Labs we had, obviously, hundreds and hundreds of engineers who had to excite other engineers about their approaches. Many of us had to learn that the hard way. That's a great lesson to learn for anybody, entrepreneur or not, I think. I you were sitting here, though, with a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, given our prior conversation about the word itself... But given that we'll call it that for now. If you were giving a young person advice, what would you tell them?
Hilary: & Funny. I was invited to speak to a bunch of college students from NYU on Saturday. I spent quite a long time thinking about the answer to this question. I actually do have one for you. My answer to that is just to have adventures and to say yes when you're not sure about something. You're going to learn something fascinating along the way.
Larry: & That's really good. I like that.
Hilary: & Also, if you keep that spirit of adventure with you, even if the thing you're doing is a total failure, you'll have had a great time. It doesn't matter.
Lucy: & This is important for technologists, especially, because technology's on the edge. Like Hilary and others, who are inventing new things. That whole invention process is really an adventure. You can't invent something you already know what the end is.
Larry: & [laughs] Yes.
Lucy: & That's a pretty important observation.
Larry: & There's a real good question here that's good for any entrepreneur. They ought to take a look at it. That is, how do you, Hilary, bring balance into your personal and your professional lives?
Hilary: & Another good question. It's one that, I think, we tend to set up personal life and work life as if they're diametrically opposed and they're two things that should have a wall between them. I don't really look at it that way. I try and make sure I enjoy what I'm doing in my professional life. I try to make sure that it doesn't overwhelm what I'm doing in my personal life. But, in general, a lot of the things that I do are on that line of both. Where, for example, I'm taking a trip to San Francisco this week. I'm giving three talks. That's definitely professional. I'm also meeting up with friends. It's going to be a great time. I think it is a challenge. But it's one that, as long as you're happy, it's OK.
Lucy: & That blended answer, we get that a lot. One of our most popular answers and also an answer that says, "What balance?"
Larry: & [laughs] Yeah.
Lucy: & Totally imbalanced. You've already achieved a lot. You mentioned you were just starting out. You mentioned your love of adventure and always keeping that adventuresome attitude. What can you say about your next big adventure?
Hilary: & That's really a good question and one that I try to think about quite a lot. There are a couple of things I'm pretty excited about that I don't think have really caught on in the community, which means it might be an opportunity. Or it might be a terrible idea. I'd like to pursue those things. In general, themes around how technology can help us be better people.
Lucy: & That's interesting. That's one of the themes today, in fact, as the beginning of computer science education week. Some of the themes around technology to serve the world, technology to make people better, those are great things.
Larry: & Yes, absolutely. I love it.
Lucy: & Well, thank you so much, Hilary. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Have fun on your trip to San Francisco.
Hilary: & It's been great speaking with both of you, too.
Lucy: & I just want to remind listeners that they can find this interview at w3w.com and ncwit.org.
Larry: & All right.
Lucy: & All right, thank you.
Larry: & Thanks Hilary.
Hilary: & Thank you.
Lucy: & Have a safe trip and have fun. [music]
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Hilary MasonInterview Summary:& Hilary Mason, Chief Scientist at bitly, describes problem solving and the development of technology as a super power - "the ability to do something we really couldn't do before." She goes on to say "we're extremely lucky to live at a moment in time, when if you're willing to put in the time and energy, it is actually possible to build things that have not existed before, that actually do make people's lives a bit more interesting.
Release Date:& February 1, 2013Interview Subject:& Hilary MasonInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 13:57https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/hilary.mason-bitly_1-7-2013.mp3Interview with Asmau Ahmedhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-asmau-ahmed
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-8498"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/asmau.ahmed_plumperfect_9-10-2012.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Interview with Asmau Ahmed
Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women and Information Technology and this is an interview and a series of interviews that we're doing with just wonderful entrepreneurs, who have started technology companies. With me is Larry Nelson, w3w3. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;Hi I'm so happy to be here. One of the great things we've been on the Internet Radio Show business for fourteen years and we're running into NCWIT and Lucy Sanders and their whole team. This has been absolutely been fantastic. I've got four daughters, so I'm very very moved.
Lucy: &nbsp;Wonderful. OK. This is the first time in over seventy interviews that I believe we're interviewing a chemical engineer.
Larry: &nbsp;Oh, that's it. That's right.
Lucy: &nbsp;It's awesome and with experience in color quality assurance no less. So stay tuned as to why this is so important for her company, Plum Perfect. Today we're interviewing Asmau Ahmed. She is the founder and CEO of Plum Perfect and it's just this fantastic site where you can go and you can upload a picture of yourself and magic happens, and it will find through color detection the right kind of make‑up for you. Now, Larry if you're not going to really look up at make‑up yet, OK, they're going to expand in other verticals around clothing or maybe furniture so you could send a shot of your sofa and you would know what colors you could use to decorate your house. Welcome Asmau. We're really happy to have you here.
Asmau Ahmed: &nbsp;I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.
Lucy: &nbsp;So tell us a little bit about what's going on at Plum Perfect. It's just an astoundingly beautiful site as well.
Larry: &nbsp;Yes, yes.
Asmau: &nbsp;Thank you. Thank you. What we've built really is a technology that enables end‑users to use mobile, social and online photos to shop. That really is the base line of our technology. Think about, what you said Lucy, taking a photo of your face and instantly in seconds, we would scour the web and all of the brands that you know and love to find you the one lipstick that would look great on you, the one eye shadow that would look good on you for that night out. Take a photo of a dress that you already own and we're going to find the perfect accessories to go with that dress or couch, to find the perfect throw pillows or paint colors. What we've really built here isn't just a beauty product or a fashion product or a home product. It is the ability for users to take photos, which we all do now, right? We literally have cameras everywhere we go on our phones, on our computers, so the ability to utilize that and we share it everywhere too as well right on Twitter, Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram. We're really in this culture of photo sharing. What Plum Perfect does is leverage that culture of photo sharing and uses that to drive e‑commerce powered by really, really strong technology.
Lucy: &nbsp;I can already see a successful exit for you.
Larry: &nbsp;My wife would be there tonight.
Asmau: &nbsp;I would be happy to take any introductions.
Lucy: &nbsp;I may be visiting this company when I go to California the end of this week.
Asmau: &nbsp;Oh, that would be great.
Lucy: &nbsp;Why don't you tell us how you first got into technology? You're a chemical engineer and here you are now starting a tech company.
Asmau: &nbsp;Absolutely. So where do I start? I love innovation. It's just been part of life, part of how I grew up. I remember growing up and reading my father's ‑‑ I'm aging myself now ‑‑ at that point, computers as common as they are today ‑‑ but reading my father's encyclopedia and just always being amazed by technology, particularly chemistry. At a young age, my parents changed our laundry room into a chemistry lab for me. [laughing]
Asmau: &nbsp;You know they did. So that was just the beginning. I knew that even in college, I was a chemical engineer, but I loved, loved, loved till today, loved math. I loved innovating and I couldn't just figure out what I wanted to concentrate on. That could be a good thing and a bad thing. I went with chemical engineering because it was so diverse, but I also made sure that I took all of the math classes and all of the biology classes, just anywhere I had an interest. In leaving college, my first job was Honeywell International, where I did manufacturing work. Through my experiences at work and through my experiences at shopping, I thought how neat it would be, if we were able to build, if we ever got to the point where we had visually accurate information in consumer‑grade cameras and were able to extract that information somehow, make sense of that information, and use it to recommend other products that you could buy. At that point, I thought how neat would that be if we could use photos to power e‑commerce. This was years ago.
I don't think that if I had built something back then, it would be as successful as it is today with the culture of photo sharing, but that was how it all began for me. I honestly did not do anything with it for a while, but sat on it. It was just one of those ideas that wouldn't go away. It was one of those things that just kept nagging me. In the back of my mind, I knew that it had legs. I knew that this was something that could really really catch on.
Until I went to business school and wrote a business plan and built the technology, I learned how to do it. I had a chemical engineering background not a software engineer or a coder, but I know logic. I was curious enough to learn how to build out the first technology, build out the first recommendation engine. That was about five, six years ago and here we are.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow, very impressive. My goodness. What do you think out there in the field are technologies that are really cool today?
Asmau: &nbsp;Oh my goodness. I think virtual reality, anything virtual reality is great. I was watching , actually one of my favorite Sunday pastimes is watching tech. This past Sunday, there was a show and I don't remember his name, on how we can really integrate a virtual world with reality without having the interface of a computer. Where you can literally just use your fingers to take a photo or go shopping and use the window to figure out what it is that you want to buy in the store. I think virtual reality and integrating reality with the online world or the digital world, I think that's where the next big technology breakthrough would be.
Lucy: &nbsp;I just read about being able to control devices mentally, so I don't know if maybe I dreamt that. [laughter]
Asmau: &nbsp;You know to think that that's not too far away. I mean there are great technologies being built today that allow you to control things by what you sense is, smell. For us we are using photos because we thought using something visual was the closest thing we could get. It was measurable. But being able to control something by your mental ability, using your brainwaves of some sort to control what you do. It's a little scary isn't it? But its great.
Lucy: &nbsp;It is great. Well, so why are you an entrepreneur? What is it about being an entrepreneur that makes you tick?
Asmau: &nbsp;I think that there is an entrepreneurial DNA. I think that there really is a type of person that can stride in the world of entrepreneurship. For me as a child, I remember to just always wanting to be everything. I could never say I wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer. All I knew was that I wanted to innovate. All I knew was that I wanted to do something radical, make a difference. I wanted to build something out of seemingly nothing, but put pieces together. That was my one goal really in life. For me, I find that one goal fulfilled with entrepreneurship. It really is a way for me to innovate, a way for me to build, a way for me to use my brainpower and my knowledge to make a difference and to create something that I see has utility. People love it when they see it and they use it.
I've worked in corporate America before and there are great things about it, but I was bored to death. At the time I stopped working, I knew it was time because it was an environment that was good from a stability standpoint. I was getting a paycheck every other week. It was great to have that, but I felt my brain cells were deteriorating because I was not learning anything new. I was not motivated by what I was doing. I did not have the freedom to innovate as much as I wanted to.
It really is, innovation is what drives me. For me, it is not about work or play, it's really all about life and for me life is about innovating. It's about making a difference and entrepreneurship allows me that outlet to do that. For me, there isn't a nine to five job. It really is my life and what I do.
Larry: &nbsp;Now, let me ask this. Along the way you launched your company five, six years ago now and you've done so many different things. Who were your mentors or service role models for you over the years?
Asmau: &nbsp;Well, there are quite a few. The greatest supporters I've had, have been advocates of technology, advocates of women in technology, advocates of minorities in technology and just people that recognize talent when they see it. I know that I've started building technology five, six years ago, but we launched the company about two years ago 2010. One of my very early supporters was with the Astia Network. Astia is a community of women in technology or women in start‑ups to come together. I joined ASTIA back in 2010. Through Astia and all of the wonderful people that make up Astia, Yolanda Wardowski, Sharon Vosmeck and a bunch of others, I've got a huge huge support network and a huge boost. One of our greatest supporters, as well an earlier investors, was Keyport Capital. Frieda and Mitch Keyport has just been, I can't describe words how much support they have offered.
You know when you talk about having angels or [indecipherable 11:09] . It's not just about the money, it's about the advice, the time, their experience, belief in you even when you make mistakes and you will make mistakes. I have made mistakes. Their constant support and knowing that there is somebody with this much experience that has been through the grind, had so many business start‑ups and has seen the entire spectrum of really big successes to drastic failures, and having them believe in you and take the time and energy to spend with you, most recently Golden Seeds, who are our latest investors. o
On that board is Marty Nealon, who is the former CEO of the Home Shopping Network. I remember first meeting Marty and actually met her with another gentleman, and immediately, when I told her about what we were building, she loved it. She loved it from the get‑go. She got it. She understood and she has been behind us a hundred percent since.
Obviously, we couldn't have done this without Astia, without Keyport Capital, without Golden Seeds, without my husband who takes care of my two‑year old son every time I have to go out on the fundraising trail or go out to travel for business. We could not have done it without all of their support, both people that believe in the technology and its potential, and people that believed in me and my potential as an engineer and also as a founder and CEO and people that have just been a great support network for me, family and friends.
Lucy: &nbsp;Well, you know we know many of them well here at NCWIT. We worked with Frieda and the level playing field and we worked with...
Asmau: &nbsp;Oh. so you know how passionate Frieda could be.
Lucy: &nbsp;Oh, absolutely wonderful people. Now, we're going to switch gears and talk about this toughest thing that you've ever done in your career. Why don't you tell our listeners what ever comes to mind about, "Oh, that was horrible. I would hope to have never do that again."
Asmau: &nbsp;That's a tough one because Lord knows I've made a lot of mistakes. The toughest thing that I've ever done ‑‑ I know this is going to sound very cliché, but it's the truth ‑‑ it really has been around not following my passion when I knew it was time. It's been around staying at that job longer because I wanted to have that security of that paycheck. I did not want to take the leap of faith, you know, what would happen if I did that? ,The toughest thing that I've done is stayed at an environment that I knew wasn't right for me, that I knew was a path really leading to nowhere but feeling obligated to stay there because I had to make ends meet right? For me, that was the toughest thing emotionally. It was also the toughest thing, mentally for me. It was the toughest thing. It was tough. It was tougher than going out there.
I know that most start‑ups would say the toughest thing was fundraising and waiting for forever and not getting funded and you know hearing all the nos. For me honestly that was fine because I knew that not everybody would buy into our technology, not everybody would love it. It wasn't everyone's sweet spot, but I believed in it and that fuel kept me going. Staying in the environment where I had no fuel, where I had no passion was a slow death, so that was the toughest thing.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow, you know that's going through a great deal and that's a great segue into our next question. That is, if you were right now sitting at your desk or your table with a "wannabe" entrepreneur, what kind of advice would you give them?
Asmau: &nbsp;I would say if you can, find a partner. Find somebody that believes in this just as strongly as you do. It has to be the right person from the onset and go at it together. Finding that partner is like choosing a mate for life because it really is that intimate of a relationship. You have to trust them. You have to get along. You have to be comfortable about talking about strategy to finances to direction of where the company is going to go, hiring, who's going to take responsibility. It's like raising a child together right? So you have to be able to know that person and trust that person in and out. That's my first advice. My second advice would be you're going to hear a lot of nos and you're going to hear people give you varying opinions on how can grow your product and that's a great thing. When you have a strong technology, you have a strong product. There's several different ways that you can go with it. That's a good thing.
But you need to stay focused and I struggled at that very much in the beginning. That was something that I got lot of guidance on was when we first build this out, we wanted to be everything. We had to choose one vertical to focus on, and hopefully, we can roll out the others with time, but we had to get the first vertical right. My third advice would be to stay focused.
Lucy: &nbsp;Focus is important.
Asmau: &nbsp;It is very important.
Larry: &nbsp;I like it!
Lucy: &nbsp;So along the same lines and maybe drilling down just a bit, what personal characteristics do you have that make you a successful entrepreneur.
Asmau: &nbsp;Staying power and not giving up, that's one. The second is thinking outside of the box and pushing the envelope. Whenever I try to bring somebody on board on our team or I post the job, I always put on there that this isn't for the faint‑hearted. If you're looking for the status quo, this isn't it for you. You have to be willing to push the envelope. If I think that and not going out there and seeing whether they exist and using that as the limits to what you can create right? And I had a lot of people that have done that. They've come onboard and they're like, "Oh let's see what other people are doing," and that kind of creates the boundaries to what we can do. I say, "No. We can't do that. The whole point of this is that we're not looking to create what has already been created. We're looking to push the boundaries here."
Yes, we learn from what has already been done, but we take that next level. We take it a step ahead. So I think just having that mindset as well. I think the two characteristics are staying power and just a thirst for innovation and pushing the envelope and not being satisfied until you do.
Lucy: &nbsp;Well, and I think the push for innovation is something that many people need to experience an innovative effort before they really understand that, right?
Asmau: &nbsp;Agreed.
Lucy: &nbsp;They have to be around it for a while. Some people are busy when they're young blowing things up in their parent's laundry room and the chemistry lab. But I think some people are a little scared of innovation perhaps until they've gone through it before.
Asmau: &nbsp;I think also that people are scared of failure.
Lucy: &nbsp;Yes. Agreed.
Asmau: &nbsp;I've been through this as well. For me, I think it's not necessarily failure, it's a fear of not being the best and not knowing how to approach or solve a problem. You then kind of shut off and just think you can separate yourself from this world of innovation just because you don't know how to relate to it. You are not sure you would be the best that you can be, if put in that world. I think even more so than not being around innovation because I think this day and age we're all around innovation. You can't escape from it. It's everywhere. I think it's the fear of just engaging with it and knowing that you can without failure.
Larry: &nbsp;Innovation is certainly a big word here, but also you know you have a very loving, wonderful family. You're building a new business. How was it that you bring ‑‑ and this is a word we talk about a little bit ‑‑ balance into your personal and your professional lives?
Asmau: &nbsp;A lot of support, my family. I think as women, we are built to multitask. I went out fundraising, when I was pregnant. I continued to work when I had my son. I didn't shut down between breastfeeding and changing diapers. I continued to work. It's really a matter of effective time management skills. Again that drive, that drive, if you're really passionate about something and it's is what drives you, then you find time for it. You get it done somehow. There's been times when I've slowed down, absolutely, but I've slowed down. I have always known that I would have to make up for that and get back on and push even harder. There's no magic formula to this. It's really just about having that drive, managing your time effectively and having the support. My husband has been... I couldn't have done this without him. He's been awesome. I remember having to travel out to the West Coast sometimes and not having a nanny and he would come out with me and stay with my son in the hotel, while I went out on meetings. It really is a team effort.
Lucy: &nbsp;I love that story because I feel like that's an answer to women potentially having stronger careers, that kind of sharing. I think not only that, but I think it's an answer to a number of fathers feeling like they've been with their kids as they've grown up. I think it's wonderful. You've already achieved a lot. What's next for you? We think that's kind of an interesting question to ask entrepreneurs because they are so heads down in their business and their life, but do you see anything that potentially might be next for you or for the company?
Asmau: &nbsp;Absolutely. You know it's interesting that you say that we're so heads down because I think you're absolutely right. I was talking to one of my colleagues here, and sometimes, we just realize that we just need to take some time out and appreciate the milestones that we've achieved. You spent so much time working at getting to that milestone, but when you get there, you're already thinking what's the next step. For us, I think we've built a great technology. We've built a great product and we have active users. I would love to see our user base increase significantly. I would love to see us go out there in the marketplace. We haven't done a ton of marketing, but we've already built great enthusiasm for our technology in the technology round space.
My next goal is to reach as many people in the US and internationally as we can. I really see this as the next way to shop, the next way for people to engage with stores and with retailers both online and the physical stores. It's just to take a photo of whatever it is you want and we can use that visual information from that photo to drive e‑commerce. I mean just think about how huge that could potentially be.
Lucy: &nbsp;I'm excited.
Asmau: &nbsp;Whatever that thought is or wherever your imagination goes, that's how big we want to get, that's how much impact we want to have. It's baby steps. We've certainly taken a lot of baby steps in the past four years. We've made huge milestones and we're looking forward to our next achievement.
Lucy: &nbsp;It sounds wonderful and I'm looking forward to the time I could actually buy make‑up that looks good on me.
Asmau: &nbsp;Certainly.
Lucy: &nbsp;All right well thank you very much
Asmau: &nbsp;Thank you, Larry.
Lucy: &nbsp;I want to remind listeners that they can find this on w3w3.com and ncwit.org
Larry: &nbsp;You betcha. Thank you so.
Lucy: &nbsp;Good luck with the company.
Asmau: &nbsp;Thank you so much. [music]
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/asmau-ahmed">Asmau Ahmed</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Asmau Ahmed's entrepreneurial story begins with years of unsuccessfully navigating store aisles in search of make-up and clothing colors to help her look her best. As an engineer and beauty and fashion enthusiast with over 11 years of experience in business, Asmau was compelled to address the problem with technology. So she built Plum Perfect, a visual search engine that provides instant personalized recommendations to shoppers using their photos.</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2012-09-01T00:00:00-06:00">September 1, 2012</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Asmau Ahmed</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">22:57</div></div></div>Sat, 01 Sep 2012 06:00:00 +0000lauren.vonroennhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-asmau-ahmed#comments22:57Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Asmau Ahmed
Lucy Sanders: & Hi this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women and Information Technology and this is an interview and a series of interv...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Asmau Ahmed
Lucy Sanders: & Hi this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women and Information Technology and this is an interview and a series of interviews that we're doing with just wonderful entrepreneurs, who have started technology companies. With me is Larry Nelson, w3w3. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: & Hi I'm so happy to be here. One of the great things we've been on the Internet Radio Show business for fourteen years and we're running into NCWIT and Lucy Sanders and their whole team. This has been absolutely been fantastic. I've got four daughters, so I'm very very moved.
Lucy: & Wonderful. OK. This is the first time in over seventy interviews that I believe we're interviewing a chemical engineer.
Larry: & Oh, that's it. That's right.
Lucy: & It's awesome and with experience in color quality assurance no less. So stay tuned as to why this is so important for her company, Plum Perfect. Today we're interviewing Asmau Ahmed. She is the founder and CEO of Plum Perfect and it's just this fantastic site where you can go and you can upload a picture of yourself and magic happens, and it will find through color detection the right kind of make‑up for you. Now, Larry if you're not going to really look up at make‑up yet, OK, they're going to expand in other verticals around clothing or maybe furniture so you could send a shot of your sofa and you would know what colors you could use to decorate your house. Welcome Asmau. We're really happy to have you here.
Asmau Ahmed: & I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.
Lucy: & So tell us a little bit about what's going on at Plum Perfect. It's just an astoundingly beautiful site as well.
Larry: & Yes, yes.
Asmau: & Thank you. Thank you. What we've built really is a technology that enables end‑users to use mobile, social and online photos to shop. That really is the base line of our technology. Think about, what you said Lucy, taking a photo of your face and instantly in seconds, we would scour the web and all of the brands that you know and love to find you the one lipstick that would look great on you, the one eye shadow that would look good on you for that night out. Take a photo of a dress that you already own and we're going to find the perfect accessories to go with that dress or couch, to find the perfect throw pillows or paint colors. What we've really built here isn't just a beauty product or a fashion product or a home product. It is the ability for users to take photos, which we all do now, right? We literally have cameras everywhere we go on our phones, on our computers, so the ability to utilize that and we share it everywhere too as well right on Twitter, Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram. We're really in this culture of photo sharing. What Plum Perfect does is leverage that culture of photo sharing and uses that to drive e‑commerce powered by really, really strong technology.
Lucy: & I can already see a successful exit for you.
Larry: & My wife would be there tonight.
Asmau: & I would be happy to take any introductions.
Lucy: & I may be visiting this company when I go to California the end of this week.
Asmau: & Oh, that would be great.
Lucy: & Why don't you tell us how you first got into technology? You're a chemical engineer and here you are now starting a tech company.
Asmau: & Absolutely. So where do I start? I love innovation. It's just been part of life, part of how I grew up. I remember growing up and reading my father's ‑‑ I'm aging myself now ‑‑ at that point, computers as common as they are today ‑‑ but reading my father's encyclopedia and just always being amazed by technology, particularly chemistry. At a young age, my parents changed our laundry room into a chemistry lab for me. [laughing]
Asmau: & You know they did. So that was just the beginning. I knew that even in college, I was a chemical engineer, but I loved, loved, loved till today, loved math. I loved innovating and I couldn't just figure out what I wanted to concentrate on. That could be a good thing and a bad thing. I went with chemical engineering because it was so diverse, but I also made sure that I took all of the math classes and all of the biology classes, just anywhere I had an interest. In leaving college, my first job was Honeywell International, where I did manufacturing work. Through my experiences at work and through my experiences at shopping, I thought how neat it would be, if we were able to build, if we ever got to the point where we had visually accurate information in consumer‑grade cameras and were able to extract that information somehow, make sense of that information, and use it to recommend other products that you could buy. At that point, I thought how neat would that be if we could use photos to power e‑commerce. This was years ago.
I don't think that if I had built something back then, it would be as successful as it is today with the culture of photo sharing, but that was how it all began for me. I honestly did not do anything with it for a while, but sat on it. It was just one of those ideas that wouldn't go away. It was one of those things that just kept nagging me. In the back of my mind, I knew that it had legs. I knew that this was something that could really really catch on.
Until I went to business school and wrote a business plan and built the technology, I learned how to do it. I had a chemical engineering background not a software engineer or a coder, but I know logic. I was curious enough to learn how to build out the first technology, build out the first recommendation engine. That was about five, six years ago and here we are.
Larry: & Wow, very impressive. My goodness. What do you think out there in the field are technologies that are really cool today?
Asmau: & Oh my goodness. I think virtual reality, anything virtual reality is great. I was watching , actually one of my favorite Sunday pastimes is watching tech. This past Sunday, there was a show and I don't remember his name, on how we can really integrate a virtual world with reality without having the interface of a computer. Where you can literally just use your fingers to take a photo or go shopping and use the window to figure out what it is that you want to buy in the store. I think virtual reality and integrating reality with the online world or the digital world, I think that's where the next big technology breakthrough would be.
Lucy: & I just read about being able to control devices mentally, so I don't know if maybe I dreamt that. [laughter]
Asmau: & You know to think that that's not too far away. I mean there are great technologies being built today that allow you to control things by what you sense is, smell. For us we are using photos because we thought using something visual was the closest thing we could get. It was measurable. But being able to control something by your mental ability, using your brainwaves of some sort to control what you do. It's a little scary isn't it? But its great.
Lucy: & It is great. Well, so why are you an entrepreneur? What is it about being an entrepreneur that makes you tick?
Asmau: & I think that there is an entrepreneurial DNA. I think that there really is a type of person that can stride in the world of entrepreneurship. For me as a child, I remember to just always wanting to be everything. I could never say I wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer. All I knew was that I wanted to innovate. All I knew was that I wanted to do something radical, make a difference. I wanted to build something out of seemingly nothing, but put pieces together. That was my one goal really in life. For me, I find that one goal fulfilled with entrepreneurship. It really is a way for me to innovate, a way for me to build, a way for me to use my brainpower and my knowledge to make a difference and to create something that I see has utility. People love it when they see it and they use it.
I've worked in corporate America before and there are great things about it, but I was bored to death. At the time I stopped working, I knew it was time because it was an environment that was good from a stability standpoint. I was getting a paycheck every other week. It was great to have that, but I felt my brain cells were deteriorating because I was not learning anything new. I was not motivated by what I was doing. I did not have the freedom to innovate as much as I wanted to.
It really is, innovation is what drives me. For me, it is not about work or play, it's really all about life and for me life is about innovating. It's about making a difference and entrepreneurship allows me that outlet to do that. For me, there isn't a nine to five job. It really is my life and what I do.
Larry: & Now, let me ask this. Along the way you launched your company five, six years ago now and you've done so many different things. Who were your mentors or service role models for you over the years?
Asmau: & Well, there are quite a few. The greatest supporters I've had, have been advocates of technology, advocates of women in technology, advocates of minorities in technology and just people that recognize talent when they see it. I know that I've started building technology five, six years ago, but we launched the company about two years ago 2010. One of my very early supporters was with the Astia Network. Astia is a community of women in technology or women in start‑ups to come together. I joined ASTIA back in 2010. Through Astia and all of the wonderful people that make up Astia, Yolanda Wardowski, Sharon Vosmeck and a bunch of others, I've got a huge huge support network and a huge boost. One of our greatest supporters, as well an earlier investors, was Keyport Capital. Frieda and Mitch Keyport has just been, I can't describe words how much support they have offered.
You know when you talk about having angels or [indecipherable 11:09] . It's not just about the money, it's about the advice, the time, their experience, belief in you even when you make mistakes and you will make mistakes. I have made mistakes. Their constant support and knowing that there is somebody with this much experience that has been through the grind, had so many business start‑ups and has seen the entire spectrum of really big successes to drastic failures, and having them believe in you and take the time and energy to spend with you, most recently Golden Seeds, who are our latest investors. o
On that board is Marty Nealon, who is the former CEO of the Home Shopping Network. I remember first meeting Marty and actually met her with another gentleman, and immediately, when I told her about what we were building, she loved it. She loved it from the get‑go. She got it. She understood and she has been behind us a hundred percent since.
Obviously, we couldn't have done this without Astia, without Keyport Capital, without Golden Seeds, without my husband who takes care of my two‑year old son every time I have to go out on the fundraising trail or go out to travel for business. We could not have done it without all of their support, both people that believe in the technology and its potential, and people that believed in me and my potential as an engineer and also as a founder and CEO and people that have just been a great support network for me, family and friends.
Lucy: & Well, you know we know many of them well here at NCWIT. We worked with Frieda and the level playing field and we worked with...
Asmau: & Oh. so you know how passionate Frieda could be.
Lucy: & Oh, absolutely wonderful people. Now, we're going to switch gears and talk about this toughest thing that you've ever done in your career. Why don't you tell our listeners what ever comes to mind about, "Oh, that was horrible. I would hope to have never do that again."
Asmau: & That's a tough one because Lord knows I've made a lot of mistakes. The toughest thing that I've ever done ‑‑ I know this is going to sound very cliché, but it's the truth ‑‑ it really has been around not following my passion when I knew it was time. It's been around staying at that job longer because I wanted to have that security of that paycheck. I did not want to take the leap of faith, you know, what would happen if I did that? ,The toughest thing that I've done is stayed at an environment that I knew wasn't right for me, that I knew was a path really leading to nowhere but feeling obligated to stay there because I had to make ends meet right? For me, that was the toughest thing emotionally. It was also the toughest thing, mentally for me. It was the toughest thing. It was tough. It was tougher than going out there.
I know that most start‑ups would say the toughest thing was fundraising and waiting for forever and not getting funded and you know hearing all the nos. For me honestly that was fine because I knew that not everybody would buy into our technology, not everybody would love it. It wasn't everyone's sweet spot, but I believed in it and that fuel kept me going. Staying in the environment where I had no fuel, where I had no passion was a slow death, so that was the toughest thing.
Larry: & Wow, you know that's going through a great deal and that's a great segue into our next question. That is, if you were right now sitting at your desk or your table with a "wannabe" entrepreneur, what kind of advice would you give them?
Asmau: & I would say if you can, find a partner. Find somebody that believes in this just as strongly as you do. It has to be the right person from the onset and go at it together. Finding that partner is like choosing a mate for life because it really is that intimate of a relationship. You have to trust them. You have to get along. You have to be comfortable about talking about strategy to finances to direction of where the company is going to go, hiring, who's going to take responsibility. It's like raising a child together right? So you have to be able to know that person and trust that person in and out. That's my first advice. My second advice would be you're going to hear a lot of nos and you're going to hear people give you varying opinions on how can grow your product and that's a great thing. When you have a strong technology, you have a strong product. There's several different ways that you can go with it. That's a good thing.
But you need to stay focused and I struggled at that very much in the beginning. That was something that I got lot of guidance on was when we first build this out, we wanted to be everything. We had to choose one vertical to focus on, and hopefully, we can roll out the others with time, but we had to get the first vertical right. My third advice would be to stay focused.
Lucy: & Focus is important.
Asmau: & It is very important.
Larry: & I like it!
Lucy: & So along the same lines and maybe drilling down just a bit, what personal characteristics do you have that make you a successful entrepreneur.
Asmau: & Staying power and not giving up, that's one. The second is thinking outside of the box and pushing the envelope. Whenever I try to bring somebody on board on our team or I post the job, I always put on there that this isn't for the faint‑hearted. If you're looking for the status quo, this isn't it for you. You have to be willing to push the envelope. If I think that and not going out there and seeing whether they exist and using that as the limits to what you can create right? And I had a lot of people that have done that. They've come onboard and they're like, "Oh let's see what other people are doing," and that kind of creates the boundaries to what we can do. I say, "No. We can't do that. The whole point of this is that we're not looking to create what has already been created. We're looking to push the boundaries here."
Yes, we learn from what has already been done, but we take that next level. We take it a step ahead. So I think just having that mindset as well. I think the two characteristics are staying power and just a thirst for innovation and pushing the envelope and not being satisfied until you do.
Lucy: & Well, and I think the push for innovation is something that many people need to experience an innovative effort before they really understand that, right?
Asmau: & Agreed.
Lucy: & They have to be around it for a while. Some people are busy when they're young blowing things up in their parent's laundry room and the chemistry lab. But I think some people are a little scared of innovation perhaps until they've gone through it before.
Asmau: & I think also that people are scared of failure.
Lucy: & Yes. Agreed.
Asmau: & I've been through this as well. For me, I think it's not necessarily failure, it's a fear of not being the best and not knowing how to approach or solve a problem. You then kind of shut off and just think you can separate yourself from this world of innovation just because you don't know how to relate to it. You are not sure you would be the best that you can be, if put in that world. I think even more so than not being around innovation because I think this day and age we're all around innovation. You can't escape from it. It's everywhere. I think it's the fear of just engaging with it and knowing that you can without failure.
Larry: & Innovation is certainly a big word here, but also you know you have a very loving, wonderful family. You're building a new business. How was it that you bring ‑‑ and this is a word we talk about a little bit ‑‑ balance into your personal and your professional lives?
Asmau: & A lot of support, my family. I think as women, we are built to multitask. I went out fundraising, when I was pregnant. I continued to work when I had my son. I didn't shut down between breastfeeding and changing diapers. I continued to work. It's really a matter of effective time management skills. Again that drive, that drive, if you're really passionate about something and it's is what drives you, then you find time for it. You get it done somehow. There's been times when I've slowed down, absolutely, but I've slowed down. I have always known that I would have to make up for that and get back on and push even harder. There's no magic formula to this. It's really just about having that drive, managing your time effectively and having the support. My husband has been... I couldn't have done this without him. He's been awesome. I remember having to travel out to the West Coast sometimes and not having a nanny and he would come out with me and stay with my son in the hotel, while I went out on meetings. It really is a team effort.
Lucy: & I love that story because I feel like that's an answer to women potentially having stronger careers, that kind of sharing. I think not only that, but I think it's an answer to a number of fathers feeling like they've been with their kids as they've grown up. I think it's wonderful. You've already achieved a lot. What's next for you? We think that's kind of an interesting question to ask entrepreneurs because they are so heads down in their business and their life, but do you see anything that potentially might be next for you or for the company?
Asmau: & Absolutely. You know it's interesting that you say that we're so heads down because I think you're absolutely right. I was talking to one of my colleagues here, and sometimes, we just realize that we just need to take some time out and appreciate the milestones that we've achieved. You spent so much time working at getting to that milestone, but when you get there, you're already thinking what's the next step. For us, I think we've built a great technology. We've built a great product and we have active users. I would love to see our user base increase significantly. I would love to see us go out there in the marketplace. We haven't done a ton of marketing, but we've already built great enthusiasm for our technology in the technology round space.
My next goal is to reach as many people in the US and internationally as we can. I really see this as the next way to shop, the next way for people to engage with stores and with retailers both online and the physical stores. It's just to take a photo of whatever it is you want and we can use that visual information from that photo to drive e‑commerce. I mean just think about how huge that could potentially be.
Lucy: & I'm excited.
Asmau: & Whatever that thought is or wherever your imagination goes, that's how big we want to get, that's how much impact we want to have. It's baby steps. We've certainly taken a lot of baby steps in the past four years. We've made huge milestones and we're looking forward to our next achievement.
Lucy: & It sounds wonderful and I'm looking forward to the time I could actually buy make‑up that looks good on me.
Asmau: & Certainly.
Lucy: & All right well thank you very much
Asmau: & Thank you, Larry.
Lucy: & I want to remind listeners that they can find this on w3w3.com and ncwit.org
Larry: & You betcha. Thank you so.
Lucy: & Good luck with the company.
Asmau: & Thank you so much. [music]
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Asmau AhmedInterview Summary:& Asmau Ahmed's entrepreneurial story begins with years of unsuccessfully navigating store aisles in search of make-up and clothing colors to help her look her best. As an engineer and beauty and fashion enthusiast with over 11 years of experience in business, Asmau was compelled to address the problem with technology. So she built Plum Perfect, a visual search engine that provides instant personalized recommendations to shoppers using their photos.
Release Date:& September 1, 2012Interview Subject:& Asmau AhmedInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 22:57https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/asmau.ahmed_plumperfect_9-10-2012.mp3Interview with Brandy Alexander-Wimberlyhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-brandy-alexander-wimberly
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-8492"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/brandy.wimberly_buyvite_8-6-2012.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Interview with Brandy Alexander‑Wimberly
Lucy Sanders: &nbsp;Hi this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women and Information Technology. With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: &nbsp;Hi, I'm so happy to be here. This is talk radio show but we really like to do anything we can to help promote young girls, young women in business and technology and we have been lucky enough. We've interviewed seventy plus now and it's really great. Entrepreneurship is a big thing.
Lucy: &nbsp;Right and we've been promoting in social media as well. Please pay attention to our Twitter and Facebook feeds and you'll hear more about these wonderful women. So today we're interviewing Brandy Alexander‑Wimberly, the founder and CEO of Buyvite. Buyvite is really, really cool. I've pulled a few tag lines from their site because I just love them so much. Never front the money for your friends and family again. Group pay for event tickets. Planning on getting your cousin a gift from your entire family? Now these are all situations that I think our listeners could really relate to because they volunteer to buy a group present or to pay for a group trip and they have the unenviable task of going back around and collecting money from family and friends which can be stressful.
So Buyvite ‑‑ and we'll hear more about this from Brandy in a moment ‑‑ is an online community that really facilitates and simplifies this type of group purchase. Basically, family and friends can all contribute to one transaction. You can invite friends to group purchase as well. A beautiful site. You're going to hear that Brandy is a serious user interface person as well and you can see this at her site. So welcome, Brandy.
Brandy Alexander‑Wimberly: &nbsp;Thanks for having me.
Lucy: &nbsp;So tell us a little bit about what's going on and Buyvite and how you make this all less stressful.
Brandy: &nbsp;Yeah, Buyvite just went live in May, after about a year in development. So we are actually kind of happy to announce we just closed an angel round. We'll be doing some additional tweaks to our platform but we're really excited about the future of social commerce and group payments in particular. We see what we've created as almost like a Kickstarter or a Crowdfunder, but for retailers. So that is kind of the essence of our platform.
Lucy: &nbsp;It's a gorgeous user interface. Let's just really go to the site and take a look at it and go buy something for Samba. And get your friends to buy it with you. Brandy, tell us a little bit about how you first got into technology and as you look out today on the technology landscape, what particular things do you think are pretty hot from a technical perspective?
Brandy: &nbsp;Well, I actually had an interesting arrival into my career in technology. I was actually working in old media and I always tell people that I transitioned from old media to essentially new media. I started my career working in radio and television and saw that everything was essentially moving to the Internet, and I decided that's where I wanted to be as well, so I had additional course work and kind of worked my way up from a small web design firm back in 2005 to where I am today.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow.
Lucy: &nbsp;Wow that's awesome. So obviously you think online media is pretty cool?
Brandy: &nbsp;Definitely, absolutely.
Larry: &nbsp;Boy, I can tell you I can relate to that so much. My wife and I were co‑hosting on a couple Clear Channel stations radio shows and this Internet stuff started popping up and we decided, "We're gone."
Brandy: &nbsp;Yeah right, exactly, exactly. I've worked in it since 2005 so many many years now at this point and in terms of what I think is cool right now, I have my eye obviously on social commerce, responsive design and the future of mole advertising in particular. Especially coming from kind of a traditional broadcast background, I really understand advertising and I see a really great future for mobile advertising. That space is just so kind of new, so there's a space for innovation there.
Larry: &nbsp;I think I can take a few lessons from you and I certainly will. Here is a related question ‑‑ it's different, but why is it that you're an entrepreneur and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Brandy: &nbsp;Well you know, that's a good question, and the true entrepreneur for me is someone who has a need to create. So if you're working inside a company, kind of functioning as an entrepreneur, people that have those needs are really essential for innovation anywhere from a start up to a multi‑national company in my opinion. For me personally I guess I like to infuse them in doing things, or what I see as cool concepts, and then try to make the idea into a reality. Going from concept to company is really the true challenge and great ideas are everywhere but making them a reality is what really makes someone an entrepreneur.
Lucy: &nbsp;And so you just opened your company in May, you just closed an angel round, and along the way people have supported you in your career path as an entrepreneur. Can you tell us a little bit more of who is serving as your role models or mentors or have in the past?
Brandy: &nbsp;Over the course of my entire career I've had the really great support system of personal and professional people in my life, and great friends and families that have always been supportive of my ideas. I'm just one of those idea people. I'm always kind of coming up with something but I've also been surprised at how supportive the tech start up community has been particularly because I'm a female founder. It is always important for me that the product I've built be the main recognition, but it's also been awesome that so many groups have been interested in promoting female‑run companies.
Lucy: &nbsp;We like to hear that.
Brandy: &nbsp;Oh definitely. You guys in particular for sure.
Lucy: &nbsp;Absolutely.
Larry: &nbsp;It sounds like you've done a number of very interesting things. I can't help but ask, what is the toughest thing that you had to do during your career?
Brandy: &nbsp;You know that's another interesting question and I think if you haven't had a tough career then you probably haven't learned much, I would suspect, along the way. But creating this company, creating Buyvite was definitely the most challenging thing I've ever done professionally, but it's also been the best thing I've ever done. I'm currently in the midst of everything so I can't say what the end game will ultimately be for the company but it has been such an awesome experience so far that I recommend to anyone else that if you have the passion and expertise necessary to launch a venture, don't hold back from creating a company because the experience in itself would be worthwhile in the end.
Lucy: &nbsp;Along those lines, you're sitting here with a young person, you're talking to them about entrepreneurship. What advice would you give them past the place where they decide they're going to start a company, what specific advice might you give them about entrepreneurship?
Brandy: &nbsp;It's something that I get asked a lot and I would suspect a lot of people would say things like kind of go for it, but I would personally take a different approach. I would say get into a career first and build some experience then start your company, and I say that for many reasons. First of all, I know a huge trend especially with technology start‑ups is to give millions to recent college grads. Now it has paid off big time for a lot of investors, but how many along the way have failed ‑ not because the concept wasn't great but maybe because of execution. I'm not sure but I have met a lot of recent grads with great ideas but they have no idea how to run a business and what that means. So that's a gamble for both parties and I'm not saying that across the board for everyone. Certainly there are exceptions and it really depends on the person, but I know I could not have created my current company as a 22‑year old.
So my advice is you need a solid understanding in business to really take a holistic approach to running a company. Just because you can code and have a good idea at the end of the day does not necessarily make you a CEO. So I think investors are always kind of searching for another Mark Zuckerburg when he was really one in a million and also at the right place at the right time.
I would say to younger people right out of college, give yourself a few years to be able to intelligently answer things like what is a P and L sheet for example.
Lucy: &nbsp;Right. Exactly right and I think that that's an excellent point. There is a report and I'm sorry I can't remember the exact name of it but I'm sure if you went to the Kauffman Foundation website you would see it. It talks about the average age of successful entrepreneurs and it's a lot older than what I think the public view is. Reinforcing your point.
Brandy: &nbsp;That's right. Exactly. You know at the end of the day these things that we call start ups and companies, they really shouldn't be viewed as someone's baby. At the end of the day it's a business and that's where the investment should be made in the business for the long term.
Larry: &nbsp;Brandy, you know that's some great entrepreneurial advice and I don't think I've heard that for a long time at all. So what are your personal characteristics that what are the things that give you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Brand: &nbsp;Two things I think really give someone an advantage that is a successful entrepreneur may be, in my situation, would be not necessarily being afraid to fail, and having perspective, that's really critical to me personally. I've had a lot of people tell me they've had great ideas but they did not want to fail. Well I don't have a fear of failure and I see everything I do as a learning experience and I definitely enjoy the challenge. Now I'm not saying I'm fearless but having perspective is also key to being able to take risks.
For example one of my colleges came to South by southwest with me to help promote our start up, and her company t‑shirt did not fit right. We were kind of heading out the door for an event and she was upset but we both looked at each other and started laughing at the kind of "First World Problem" of it all. Whining about your start‑up t‑shirt not sitting at South by Southwest really kind of brings perspective to your world.
[laughter]
Lucy: &nbsp;Well, I hope her experience turned out OK. So you just started a company I know things are pretty crazy and it's going to be an exciting year for you. What kinds of things, shifting to the rest of your life outside Buyvite, what kinds of things do you do to bring balance into your life? And we put balance in parens these days because we get a lot of answers around "I have no balance" or "I'm totally unbalanced" so what kind of things do you to keep sane? Maybe that's a better way to ask this question.
Larry: &nbsp;Well, there you go.
Brandy: &nbsp;Well it's interesting not only kind of working full time essentially, more than full time and I do have children as well so that also obviously takes a lot of my life. But again, organization is critical. The philosophy of doing one thing per day to move your start‑up forward is also something that I've taken with me along the way, and see that as something really important to do even if it's just kind of an exhausted tweak. One thing everyday that has always been my philosophy but it really comes back again as a perspective for me ‑‑ we are so lucky to be even be able to start a company in this country that I think keeping a more global perspective really keeps me balanced. My background really kind of speaks of that. My mother's family is from Lebanon. They had to flee the country back at the turn of the last century because of persecutions.
Here I am, two generations later, with nothing but opportunity available to me, especially as a woman. And then we just live a bit in a bubble here. My great grandfather was from Syria. I would say, "Well, what if I was living there now?" You know now, crazy. So a lot of people also ask me if I'm doing OK, working so hard, and I tell them that you know I not only love it but it's a privilege to have the education and professional experience that I've been given.
Not everyone even in this country has the ability to go to college let alone get a masters degree and do a lot of cool things that I've been able to do.
Lucy: &nbsp;That's so well said and I really like this ‑ do one thing to move it ahead everyday and it's something I try to do with NCWIT because it's a start‑up in many ways and pretty time consuming. But if you do that with your family, if you do that with your job, your company, your non‑profit and then you also do it for your health, you know you make sure that you keep moving ahead one thing everyday. You just feel pretty good about that.
Brandy: &nbsp;Right, absolutely, definitely.
Larry: &nbsp;Wow that's super.
Lucy: &nbsp;So Brandy, you've already achieved quite a bit. What's next for you?
Brandy: &nbsp;I totally subscribe to a LEAN start‑up philosophy and I know that's really hot right now and everyone's kind of jumping on board with it but it's totally relevant to our product. Like I mentioned we just received an angel round of investment and are in the process of adding some very cool kinds of software as a service functionality that will essentially make Buyvite a group funder for retailers. In our minds retailers are missing out on a growing segment as payment vertical that is social commerce. The goal with our product is to give retailers that missing piece in their carts. Our API is really is seamless to any kind of checkout cart. Buyvite gives friends and family the ability to contribute individual funds to a single transaction, so like you mentioned, Lucy, it works well for group gifts, vacation rentals, all other travel costs really and especially event tickets. So these are the types of companies that we would like to work with.
Larry: &nbsp;Well with many relatives and a father of five, I like this Buyvite idea.
Lucy: &nbsp;I do too. I wish you all have been around when we had to be the chaperones on our son's soccer trips.
Brandy: &nbsp;Exactly. You know I talked to tons of different people and people immediately connect with the concept so we're excited about the future of the company and where we can take it.
Lucy: &nbsp;Well it's been great talking to you and the best of luck with Buyvite. We will tune in again with you and see how you're doing but I'm sure its going to be exceptional.
Brandy: &nbsp;Looking forward to it. Thank you.
Larry: &nbsp;We're really excited we're going to have this on w3w3.com and ncwit.org. See you soon.
Lucy: &nbsp;Thank you Brandy.
Brandy: &nbsp;Thank you. Bye‑bye.
Lucy: &nbsp;Bye‑bye. [music]
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/brandy-alexander-wimberly">Brandy Alexander-Wimberly</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Brandy Alexander-Wimberly says that creating Buyvite has been the most challenging and also the best thing that she has ever done professionally, and she reminds entrepreneurs that "if you haven't had a tough career, then you probably haven't learned much along the way."</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2012-08-01T00:00:00-06:00">August 1, 2012</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Brandy Alexander-Wimberly</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">14:08</div></div></div>Wed, 01 Aug 2012 06:00:00 +0000lauren.vonroennhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-brandy-alexander-wimberly#comments14:08Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Brandy Alexander‑Wimberly
Lucy Sanders: & Hi this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women and Information Technology. With me is Larry Nelson from W...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Brandy Alexander‑Wimberly
Lucy Sanders: & Hi this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women and Information Technology. With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: & Hi, I'm so happy to be here. This is talk radio show but we really like to do anything we can to help promote young girls, young women in business and technology and we have been lucky enough. We've interviewed seventy plus now and it's really great. Entrepreneurship is a big thing.
Lucy: & Right and we've been promoting in social media as well. Please pay attention to our Twitter and Facebook feeds and you'll hear more about these wonderful women. So today we're interviewing Brandy Alexander‑Wimberly, the founder and CEO of Buyvite. Buyvite is really, really cool. I've pulled a few tag lines from their site because I just love them so much. Never front the money for your friends and family again. Group pay for event tickets. Planning on getting your cousin a gift from your entire family? Now these are all situations that I think our listeners could really relate to because they volunteer to buy a group present or to pay for a group trip and they have the unenviable task of going back around and collecting money from family and friends which can be stressful.
So Buyvite ‑‑ and we'll hear more about this from Brandy in a moment ‑‑ is an online community that really facilitates and simplifies this type of group purchase. Basically, family and friends can all contribute to one transaction. You can invite friends to group purchase as well. A beautiful site. You're going to hear that Brandy is a serious user interface person as well and you can see this at her site. So welcome, Brandy.
Brandy Alexander‑Wimberly: & Thanks for having me.
Lucy: & So tell us a little bit about what's going on and Buyvite and how you make this all less stressful.
Brandy: & Yeah, Buyvite just went live in May, after about a year in development. So we are actually kind of happy to announce we just closed an angel round. We'll be doing some additional tweaks to our platform but we're really excited about the future of social commerce and group payments in particular. We see what we've created as almost like a Kickstarter or a Crowdfunder, but for retailers. So that is kind of the essence of our platform.
Lucy: & It's a gorgeous user interface. Let's just really go to the site and take a look at it and go buy something for Samba. And get your friends to buy it with you. Brandy, tell us a little bit about how you first got into technology and as you look out today on the technology landscape, what particular things do you think are pretty hot from a technical perspective?
Brandy: & Well, I actually had an interesting arrival into my career in technology. I was actually working in old media and I always tell people that I transitioned from old media to essentially new media. I started my career working in radio and television and saw that everything was essentially moving to the Internet, and I decided that's where I wanted to be as well, so I had additional course work and kind of worked my way up from a small web design firm back in 2005 to where I am today.
Larry: & Wow.
Lucy: & Wow that's awesome. So obviously you think online media is pretty cool?
Brandy: & Definitely, absolutely.
Larry: & Boy, I can tell you I can relate to that so much. My wife and I were co‑hosting on a couple Clear Channel stations radio shows and this Internet stuff started popping up and we decided, "We're gone."
Brandy: & Yeah right, exactly, exactly. I've worked in it since 2005 so many many years now at this point and in terms of what I think is cool right now, I have my eye obviously on social commerce, responsive design and the future of mole advertising in particular. Especially coming from kind of a traditional broadcast background, I really understand advertising and I see a really great future for mobile advertising. That space is just so kind of new, so there's a space for innovation there.
Larry: & I think I can take a few lessons from you and I certainly will. Here is a related question ‑‑ it's different, but why is it that you're an entrepreneur and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Brandy: & Well you know, that's a good question, and the true entrepreneur for me is someone who has a need to create. So if you're working inside a company, kind of functioning as an entrepreneur, people that have those needs are really essential for innovation anywhere from a start up to a multi‑national company in my opinion. For me personally I guess I like to infuse them in doing things, or what I see as cool concepts, and then try to make the idea into a reality. Going from concept to company is really the true challenge and great ideas are everywhere but making them a reality is what really makes someone an entrepreneur.
Lucy: & And so you just opened your company in May, you just closed an angel round, and along the way people have supported you in your career path as an entrepreneur. Can you tell us a little bit more of who is serving as your role models or mentors or have in the past?
Brandy: & Over the course of my entire career I've had the really great support system of personal and professional people in my life, and great friends and families that have always been supportive of my ideas. I'm just one of those idea people. I'm always kind of coming up with something but I've also been surprised at how supportive the tech start up community has been particularly because I'm a female founder. It is always important for me that the product I've built be the main recognition, but it's also been awesome that so many groups have been interested in promoting female‑run companies.
Lucy: & We like to hear that.
Brandy: & Oh definitely. You guys in particular for sure.
Lucy: & Absolutely.
Larry: & It sounds like you've done a number of very interesting things. I can't help but ask, what is the toughest thing that you had to do during your career?
Brandy: & You know that's another interesting question and I think if you haven't had a tough career then you probably haven't learned much, I would suspect, along the way. But creating this company, creating Buyvite was definitely the most challenging thing I've ever done professionally, but it's also been the best thing I've ever done. I'm currently in the midst of everything so I can't say what the end game will ultimately be for the company but it has been such an awesome experience so far that I recommend to anyone else that if you have the passion and expertise necessary to launch a venture, don't hold back from creating a company because the experience in itself would be worthwhile in the end.
Lucy: & Along those lines, you're sitting here with a young person, you're talking to them about entrepreneurship. What advice would you give them past the place where they decide they're going to start a company, what specific advice might you give them about entrepreneurship?
Brandy: & It's something that I get asked a lot and I would suspect a lot of people would say things like kind of go for it, but I would personally take a different approach. I would say get into a career first and build some experience then start your company, and I say that for many reasons. First of all, I know a huge trend especially with technology start‑ups is to give millions to recent college grads. Now it has paid off big time for a lot of investors, but how many along the way have failed ‑ not because the concept wasn't great but maybe because of execution. I'm not sure but I have met a lot of recent grads with great ideas but they have no idea how to run a business and what that means. So that's a gamble for both parties and I'm not saying that across the board for everyone. Certainly there are exceptions and it really depends on the person, but I know I could not have created my current company as a 22‑year old.
So my advice is you need a solid understanding in business to really take a holistic approach to running a company. Just because you can code and have a good idea at the end of the day does not necessarily make you a CEO. So I think investors are always kind of searching for another Mark Zuckerburg when he was really one in a million and also at the right place at the right time.
I would say to younger people right out of college, give yourself a few years to be able to intelligently answer things like what is a P and L sheet for example.
Lucy: & Right. Exactly right and I think that that's an excellent point. There is a report and I'm sorry I can't remember the exact name of it but I'm sure if you went to the Kauffman Foundation website you would see it. It talks about the average age of successful entrepreneurs and it's a lot older than what I think the public view is. Reinforcing your point.
Brandy: & That's right. Exactly. You know at the end of the day these things that we call start ups and companies, they really shouldn't be viewed as someone's baby. At the end of the day it's a business and that's where the investment should be made in the business for the long term.
Larry: & Brandy, you know that's some great entrepreneurial advice and I don't think I've heard that for a long time at all. So what are your personal characteristics that what are the things that give you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Brand: & Two things I think really give someone an advantage that is a successful entrepreneur may be, in my situation, would be not necessarily being afraid to fail, and having perspective, that's really critical to me personally. I've had a lot of people tell me they've had great ideas but they did not want to fail. Well I don't have a fear of failure and I see everything I do as a learning experience and I definitely enjoy the challenge. Now I'm not saying I'm fearless but having perspective is also key to being able to take risks.
For example one of my colleges came to South by southwest with me to help promote our start up, and her company t‑shirt did not fit right. We were kind of heading out the door for an event and she was upset but we both looked at each other and started laughing at the kind of "First World Problem" of it all. Whining about your start‑up t‑shirt not sitting at South by Southwest really kind of brings perspective to your world.
[laughter]
Lucy: & Well, I hope her experience turned out OK. So you just started a company I know things are pretty crazy and it's going to be an exciting year for you. What kinds of things, shifting to the rest of your life outside Buyvite, what kinds of things do you do to bring balance into your life? And we put balance in parens these days because we get a lot of answers around "I have no balance" or "I'm totally unbalanced" so what kind of things do you to keep sane? Maybe that's a better way to ask this question.
Larry: & Well, there you go.
Brandy: & Well it's interesting not only kind of working full time essentially, more than full time and I do have children as well so that also obviously takes a lot of my life. But again, organization is critical. The philosophy of doing one thing per day to move your start‑up forward is also something that I've taken with me along the way, and see that as something really important to do even if it's just kind of an exhausted tweak. One thing everyday that has always been my philosophy but it really comes back again as a perspective for me ‑‑ we are so lucky to be even be able to start a company in this country that I think keeping a more global perspective really keeps me balanced. My background really kind of speaks of that. My mother's family is from Lebanon. They had to flee the country back at the turn of the last century because of persecutions.
Here I am, two generations later, with nothing but opportunity available to me, especially as a woman. And then we just live a bit in a bubble here. My great grandfather was from Syria. I would say, "Well, what if I was living there now?" You know now, crazy. So a lot of people also ask me if I'm doing OK, working so hard, and I tell them that you know I not only love it but it's a privilege to have the education and professional experience that I've been given.
Not everyone even in this country has the ability to go to college let alone get a masters degree and do a lot of cool things that I've been able to do.
Lucy: & That's so well said and I really like this ‑ do one thing to move it ahead everyday and it's something I try to do with NCWIT because it's a start‑up in many ways and pretty time consuming. But if you do that with your family, if you do that with your job, your company, your non‑profit and then you also do it for your health, you know you make sure that you keep moving ahead one thing everyday. You just feel pretty good about that.
Brandy: & Right, absolutely, definitely.
Larry: & Wow that's super.
Lucy: & So Brandy, you've already achieved quite a bit. What's next for you?
Brandy: & I totally subscribe to a LEAN start‑up philosophy and I know that's really hot right now and everyone's kind of jumping on board with it but it's totally relevant to our product. Like I mentioned we just received an angel round of investment and are in the process of adding some very cool kinds of software as a service functionality that will essentially make Buyvite a group funder for retailers. In our minds retailers are missing out on a growing segment as payment vertical that is social commerce. The goal with our product is to give retailers that missing piece in their carts. Our API is really is seamless to any kind of checkout cart. Buyvite gives friends and family the ability to contribute individual funds to a single transaction, so like you mentioned, Lucy, it works well for group gifts, vacation rentals, all other travel costs really and especially event tickets. So these are the types of companies that we would like to work with.
Larry: & Well with many relatives and a father of five, I like this Buyvite idea.
Lucy: & I do too. I wish you all have been around when we had to be the chaperones on our son's soccer trips.
Brandy: & Exactly. You know I talked to tons of different people and people immediately connect with the concept so we're excited about the future of the company and where we can take it.
Lucy: & Well it's been great talking to you and the best of luck with Buyvite. We will tune in again with you and see how you're doing but I'm sure its going to be exceptional.
Brandy: & Looking forward to it. Thank you.
Larry: & We're really excited we're going to have this on w3w3.com and ncwit.org. See you soon.
Lucy: & Thank you Brandy.
Brandy: & Thank you. Bye‑bye.
Lucy: & Bye‑bye. [music]
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Brandy Alexander-WimberlyInterview Summary:& Brandy Alexander-Wimberly says that creating Buyvite has been the most challenging and also the best thing that she has ever done professionally, and she reminds entrepreneurs that "if you haven't had a tough career, then you probably haven't learned much along the way."
Release Date:& August 1, 2012Interview Subject:& Brandy Alexander-WimberlyInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 14:08https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/brandy.wimberly_buyvite_8-6-2012.mp3Interview with Hilary DeCesarehttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-hilary-decesare
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-8502"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/hilary.decesare_everloop_8-20-2012.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Interview with Hilary DeCesare
[music]
Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the National Center for
Women and Information Technology or NCWIT and we're back with
another interview and a series of interviews that we've had with
just tremendous women who have started technology companies. With
me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: Hi, Lucy, it is really great to be here. A lot of people ask what
does w3w3 Business Stock radio do. Well we've been around for 14
years. So that was way back in the early days and we have partners
like NCWIT certainly one of our most popular and most important to
us. I must say that we're extremely proud to be able to help
promote young women in technology.
Lucy: Well we've got another great interview today as I've said. It's
with Hillary DeCesare, who is the founder of Everloop which we're
going to find out in a minute. It is just a terrific company for
kids. So she is a digital parenting expert and a mother herself.
She recognized the unmet need of a safe environment for children to
share, to talk, to chat on the Internet.
She came up with the idea of Everloop, an idea around privacy
protection and mentoring technologies to ensure the safety of
youngsters. This is a very comforting thought. I know Larry, you
and I are both parents.
So it's nice to know that something like Everloop is out there.
Perhaps Hillary will tell us some about their innovative technology
called loops, looping, how children join loops that they share
common interests. They talk to each other and of course that is all
with parental approval. So welcome Hillary. We are very happy to
talk with you today.
Hillary DeCesare: Thank you for having me.
Lucy: So tell us a little bit about what's going on at Everloop.
Hillary: Well as you mentioned, Everloop is a social media platform and it
is designed for kids under 13. There is a huge craze going on out
there where kids are using devices far earlier than even two year
older children of today.
So you've got kids as young as 5, 6, 7, going on their parents'
smartphone, the iPads, desktops. What we're trying to do is make
sure that when these kids finally go out into the wild wild
Internet and they are exposed to adults, that they're ready to
actually be there and that they're not making mistakes. So
Everloop's purpose is to really keep these kids safe across all
devices.
Larry: Well I love it.
Lucy: I know. It's great, isn't it? I'm sure that some of the companies'
strategies will emerge as we talk to Hillary in this interview. Why
don't you let our listeners know how you got first into technology?
Hillary: I started in technology at a company called Oracle. I was there for
10 years and really became passionate about different products that
are out on the market. I was hungry to learn about new things being
brought up and I thought of my own children and I do have three
kids.
As my own kids became interested in technology, I thought, you
know, I've got the background and yet I still feel that I'm not
connected to my kids in their digital nomadship when they are out
there really exploring. And I thought, well if that is happening to
me as a parent, it must be happening to others. So two other moms
and entrepreneurs, we decided to join forces and create a company
that was really designed to as a mission, help with safe
communication.
I mentioned across multiple devices and it was really mobile
devices were coming into play and desktop, giving them the ability
to have kids feel safe. Because they ultimately want that too but
also give parents a place that they can trust. And that's why we
really created Everloop.
Lucy: I like that phrase, digital nomadship.
Larry: Yes.
Hillary: Haha. That might be a new one.
Larry: There you go.
Lucy: Absolutely awesome.
Larry: Hillary, you've got a family. You obviously are very busy. Why are
you an entrepreneur? And what is it about entrepreneurship that
makes you tick?
Hillary: Well it's interesting because someone said last week "So you're a
mompreneur?" I said, I really am because I believe so strongly in
giving kids a voice, having them have a homebase, having them stay
kids longer. I think that today's society makes kids grow up much
faster than they need to.
And there's always that desire as a tween, I've heard it
statistically said that kids want to be 17. But the problem is that
where we have technology now, taking this kids, they're getting to
the place where it took us years and years and years to get. They
can get to pictures, images, videos in five seconds by going
online. So for me going into being an entrepreneur and having
children, you have to take a step back and say how are you going to
do it all?
And that is really the question. How do you create balance in your
life? And I felt so strongly about what I wanted to give my own
children that I use them in my test cases. I use them as my focus
group. I actually engage them in the company.
Larry: That's super.
Lucy: Now that is very cool. I believe that's the first time we have
heard that. That's awesome. Along the way Hillary, who influenced
or supported you to take this career path?
Hillary: Well it was interesting because I have had the privilege of really
being located in the Silicon Valley. I have had the change to meet
truly the top people in the industry and when I worked at Oracle,
got to know just some, you know, the creme de la creme of the men
and the women. I saw what it took them to really be successful and
to gain the respect and you know I talked about trust.
You have to, and this is really important for any entrepreneur,
when you're thinking about starting a business, you have to be able
to identify with at least three people that you think can mentor
you and be able to coach you. What was interesting is after Oracle,
I actually started a business where for five years I have helped
CEOs in the Valley put strategic frameworks around their business.
And sometimes when you do things like this you think, well I've
done this. I coach other people.
Who's going to help me figure out next steps? What's interesting is
that there is always more to learn. There's always comments and
feedback that people can give you. People have experiences and you
have to be so willing to throw out where you are in your company
and what challenges you are having. People want to help other
people if they're willing to listen.
So I went ahead and found three absolutely incredible mentors. I
ping them all the time and throw off questions. Sometimes these are
10 minute conversations and sometimes they are an hour.
Larry: That's great and I hope you listeners out there heard that because
it's a great thing to go after. Now with all the different things
you've done. It already sounds you are a serial entrepreneur. What
was the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Hillary: I think the toughest besides always having the pressure of being a
mom right? Because that's my number one job. That's my number one
love. That's my number one focus and everything. So besides the
juggling of just really being there and I'm also a single mom. So
you add the element of trying to be there for your kids. I think
that what you always have to remember is that this is just a job. I
mean that is ultimately what it is. It's a career choice and that's
the key that I just said. It is a choice.
You're doing this because you ultimately want to spend your time
and your hours doing it. Sometimes what happens is that you can get
caught up in wanting to have something be so successful that you
lose sight of why you actually started to create it in the first
place. I had the opportunity at one time specifically that I will
talk about.
I had a chance to merge the company with another and it all sounded
great. But then when you started to look at the real terms behind
it, it took me away from the core focus of what I had set out to
accomplish initially. I believe that you will be successful if it
goes with what you are passionate about. So it was a challenging
time for me because there was a moment where I could have sold
myself short.
I chose not to and I chose to continue down the path what I truly
believe in and where I believe that this company can go. But those
were tough decisions.
Lucy: Absolutely and it's a great transition to our next question. Around
giving advice to young people about entrepreneurship, so it seems
like one piece of advice you would clearly give them is keep your
perspective. What other things would you advice them about?
Hillary: I would absolutely say ideas can become big, way to big to even
handle so focus, focus, focus. Really put together that one page on
what are you hoping to accomplish? What are your milestones going
to be? Because we lose sight. You're trying to go to that end game,
you're trying to get to be that, the big picture. Where you have to
appreciate the small things that you accomplish.
So putting plans together and I'm dig on a 30 day plan, a 90 day
plan. You have to be organized enough that when you hit those small
successes, you stop and you take note and you say you know what?
That was really good. I was able to accomplish this. Because if you
don't, what happens is you spin and you spin and you spin and you
don't think you're moving forward at all.
You kind of just plateaued. But in reality you actually had. You've
accomplished and you're getting closer to ultimately what you're
trying to build, which is a successful company.
Larry: That's very good advice. Now let me ask you a related question and
that is: What are the personal characteristics that have made you a
good entrepreneur?
Hillary: The characteristics that an entrepreneur needs to have is one you
need to have very thick skin. I mean you just have to have the
ability to get knocked down and get up again. It's this idea that
you've got your integrity. You've got what you initially started
the business to be. But then you are also flexible. I see many
entrepreneurs kind of get on their path. You can't deviate at all
and especially if you're dealing with technology.
Technology, you can't jam in your product. The square into the
circle peg. You can't do it. Sometimes you have to be able to
pivot. You have to be flexible enough to realize, you know what,
this idea isn't that great of an idea anymore. But willing to say,
but hey, maybe this other one is a really good idea.
Lucy: And that's really evolutionary right? Which is a thing that we hear
a lot in these interviews that things will emerge. So Hillary you
mentioned your personal and your professional lives, what kinds of
tips or techniques can you share that help you bring balance to the
two of them?
Hillary: That we're balanced...You know what if you really showed me someone
who truly balanced their lives, please introduce them to me.
Lucy: We don't know anybody.
Larry: We don't.
Hillary: I think it's a fallacy. I think what you can try to do is realize
what's important in your life and look at it as a way to say as I'm
doing right now. I don't feel as guilty when I know over the dinner
table, I'm discussing a new concept or new direction with the
company and I'm gaining the feedback of my own children. It's
interesting, I once heard that you have your life and it's in the
shape of a triangle and it's you.
Your family, the last is your career and the right is kind of this
whole understanding that the health around you, not just your
family.
I think it's almost the point where you have to schedule things
into your life in order to get balance. It's as crazy as saying
that for these two hours I'm going to schedule time with my family
at dinner and I'm not going to do anything else. You have to
actually make it into a meeting so that you know in your head,
nothing else. Cos if you're in a meeting with people, right now,
I'm talking to you but I'm not going off and doing other things.
I'm completely focused on you.
You have to do that with your children. You have to do that with
your health. It's so important because if one of these pieces fail,
it has the tendency to spin off into other areas as well.
Larry: Wow that's also great advice. By the way, I love your website. It's
really super, isn't it?
Lucy: It really is.
Hillary: Well thank you. I'm really proud of it. I think again, trying to be
this trusted source for any parent out there and giving kids a
homebase where they can just go and feel like yeah this is mine.
This is my place.
Larry: Yes that's very good. Now you've already achieved a great deal both
personally and professionally. What's next for you?
Hillary: OK, you're asking an entrepreneur what's next? Well I think that
I'm passionate about the kids phase. I love everything about it.
I'm so excited with new partnerships that I'm developing for
Everloop. I get approached all the time with new technology and it
just fascinates me on how we are spending our lives these days. How
everything is just gammafied around you.
How do you make people interested in doing things without having
everything be about a reward system? You look at kids and I'm a mom
that does it. Hey if you do this, you get this. But it's
interesting because how far will we go? So when I look at where
technology is shaping kids.
I just read that kids are learning to use an iPad before they can
even tie their shoes. This is fascinating to me! I think where I
see myself is really uncovering those great technologies in the
future that aren't detriments to a kids life but enhances.
Larry: You know I think that's so true. I've heard that kids today are
taking three months longer to learn how to walk. That's only
because they've got to learn how to text first.
Hillary: I agree with you.
Lucy: But they can't text while walking.
Hillary: Exactly but when you have my daughter who is 14 and she texts about
a 100 texts a day. She can do it in about 30 seconds and I'm still
the thumbs and trying to get my text. She will look at me and say
"Are you still sending that one text?' She's just light years ahead
of me. I laugh at my 11 year old when she says "Mommy, are you in
this new app?'
She knew Instagram months before I did. It was so great. She's now
telling me " Have you seen this? Have you seen this? Are you
playing draw something?' I love it because I sit down and I'm like
OK again. She's educating me. Now how can I educate all the other
parents in the world?
Lucy: And that's why a one final tip right? Make sure your subject matter
experts live with you.
Hillary: You know what they are the domain experts. I just realize that
right now, but make sure you're not disconnected with it. Make sure
that you embrace it because it is their way of life. If you want to
communicate with your kids going forward, it's not your way. It's
their way or the highway.
Lucy: It's really true. My son was very impressed with me last night when
I sent a photo with a text message.
Larry: Whoa, very good.
Lucy: I know, I graduated. So Hillary, we can't let you go without asking
about your recent appearance on Secret Millionaire. How was that?
That's pretty cool.
Hillary: Oh I have to say I have always been passionate about giving back. I
felt a little hypocritical as I was sitting here on Everloop,
letting kids join fabulous charities and hearing more about what
kids love to volunteer and what they do if they had the ability to
go out and actually make a huge difference. I was approached by
this opportunity and initially I thought I'm not definitely into
the reality world. I barely even watch TV.
I thought more about it and the fact that I could uncover by being
placed in a city that I'm unfamiliar with and uncover wonderful
charities and be able to help them become known. All these unsung
heroes that are doing amazing things. I thought you know what? This
is such a great way now. We've taken one of the charities that I've
uncovered when I was doing the show and this little boy who started
a charity called Love in the Mirror when he was eight years old.
He now has a loop on Everloop and he shares what he is doing in the
community to help make it a better place.
It all came together. It made me feel good. It made the people that
are hearing about what we did feel good. The charities that I got
to meet. I mean I'm still friends with every single one of them.
It's one of those that you feel blessed where something fell into
my lap that was just so outside the box for me. It proved to be one
of the highlights of my life to date.
Lucy: Well it was very compelling. I went and looked out on it on the web
and I think it's the perfect way to end an interview because it
just really defines you and Everloop and what people are using
Everloop for. I know that your site has a page that lists the
charities in case listeners are interested.
Hillary: Well thank you for taking the time to talk with me and I love
talking to you both. Hopefully we will be able to do this again
soon.
Lucy: Great I want to remind listeners again that they can find this
interview at ncwit.org and...
Larry: W3w3.com
Lucy: All right, thank you Hillary.
Larry: Thank you.
Hillary: Take care. Bye-bye.
[music]
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/hilary-decesare">Hilary DeCesare</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>As the mother of three young children, Hilary DeCesare recognized the unmet need for a safe environment for kids to connect online with friends, play games, share pictures and music, and learn new skills. With her children in mind, she created Everloop, a social media platform for kids under 13.</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2012-08-01T00:00:00-06:00">August 1, 2012</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Hilary DeCesare</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">19:12</div></div></div>Wed, 01 Aug 2012 06:00:00 +0000lauren.vonroennhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-hilary-decesare#comments19:12Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Hilary DeCesare
[music]
Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the National Center for
Women and Information T...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& Interview with Hilary DeCesare
[music]
Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the National Center for
Women and Information Technology or NCWIT and we're back with
another interview and a series of interviews that we've had with
just tremendous women who have started technology companies. With
me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi Larry.
Larry Nelson: Hi, Lucy, it is really great to be here. A lot of people ask what
does w3w3 Business Stock radio do. Well we've been around for 14
years. So that was way back in the early days and we have partners
like NCWIT certainly one of our most popular and most important to
us. I must say that we're extremely proud to be able to help
promote young women in technology.
Lucy: Well we've got another great interview today as I've said. It's
with Hillary DeCesare, who is the founder of Everloop which we're
going to find out in a minute. It is just a terrific company for
kids. So she is a digital parenting expert and a mother herself.
She recognized the unmet need of a safe environment for children to
share, to talk, to chat on the Internet.
She came up with the idea of Everloop, an idea around privacy
protection and mentoring technologies to ensure the safety of
youngsters. This is a very comforting thought. I know Larry, you
and I are both parents.
So it's nice to know that something like Everloop is out there.
Perhaps Hillary will tell us some about their innovative technology
called loops, looping, how children join loops that they share
common interests. They talk to each other and of course that is all
with parental approval. So welcome Hillary. We are very happy to
talk with you today.
Hillary DeCesare: Thank you for having me.
Lucy: So tell us a little bit about what's going on at Everloop.
Hillary: Well as you mentioned, Everloop is a social media platform and it
is designed for kids under 13. There is a huge craze going on out
there where kids are using devices far earlier than even two year
older children of today.
So you've got kids as young as 5, 6, 7, going on their parents'
smartphone, the iPads, desktops. What we're trying to do is make
sure that when these kids finally go out into the wild wild
Internet and they are exposed to adults, that they're ready to
actually be there and that they're not making mistakes. So
Everloop's purpose is to really keep these kids safe across all
devices.
Larry: Well I love it.
Lucy: I know. It's great, isn't it? I'm sure that some of the companies'
strategies will emerge as we talk to Hillary in this interview. Why
don't you let our listeners know how you got first into technology?
Hillary: I started in technology at a company called Oracle. I was there for
10 years and really became passionate about different products that
are out on the market. I was hungry to learn about new things being
brought up and I thought of my own children and I do have three
kids.
As my own kids became interested in technology, I thought, you
know, I've got the background and yet I still feel that I'm not
connected to my kids in their digital nomadship when they are out
there really exploring. And I thought, well if that is happening to
me as a parent, it must be happening to others. So two other moms
and entrepreneurs, we decided to join forces and create a company
that was really designed to as a mission, help with safe
communication.
I mentioned across multiple devices and it was really mobile
devices were coming into play and desktop, giving them the ability
to have kids feel safe. Because they ultimately want that too but
also give parents a place that they can trust. And that's why we
really created Everloop.
Lucy: I like that phrase, digital nomadship.
Larry: Yes.
Hillary: Haha. That might be a new one.
Larry: There you go.
Lucy: Absolutely awesome.
Larry: Hillary, you've got a family. You obviously are very busy. Why are
you an entrepreneur? And what is it about entrepreneurship that
makes you tick?
Hillary: Well it's interesting because someone said last week "So you're a
mompreneur?" I said, I really am because I believe so strongly in
giving kids a voice, having them have a homebase, having them stay
kids longer. I think that today's society makes kids grow up much
faster than they need to.
And there's always that desire as a tween, I've heard it
statistically said that kids want to be 17. But the problem is that
where we have technology now, taking this kids, they're getting to
the place where it took us years and years and years to get. They
can get to pictures, images, videos in five seconds by going
online. So for me going into being an entrepreneur and having
children, you have to take a step back and say how are you going to
do it all?
And that is really the question. How do you create balance in your
life? And I felt so strongly about what I wanted to give my own
children that I use them in my test cases. I use them as my focus
group. I actually engage them in the company.
Larry: That's super.
Lucy: Now that is very cool. I believe that's the first time we have
heard that. That's awesome. Along the way Hillary, who influenced
or supported you to take this career path?
Hillary: Well it was interesting because I have had the privilege of really
being located in the Silicon Valley. I have had the change to meet
truly the top people in the industry and when I worked at Oracle,
got to know just some, you know, the creme de la creme of the men
and the women. I saw what it took them to really be successful and
to gain the respect and you know I talked about trust.
You have to, and this is really important for any entrepreneur,
when you're thinking about starting a business, you have to be able
to identify with at least three people that you think can mentor
you and be able to coach you. What was interesting is after Oracle,
I actually started a business where for five years I have helped
CEOs in the Valley put strategic frameworks around their business.
And sometimes when you do things like this you think, well I've
done this. I coach other people.
Who's going to help me figure out next steps? What's interesting is
that there is always more to learn. There's always comments and
feedback that people can give you. People have experiences and you
have to be so willing to throw out where you are in your company
and what challenges you are having. People want to help other
people if they're willing to listen.
So I went ahead and found three absolutely incredible mentors. I
ping them all the time and throw off questions. Sometimes these are
10 minute conversations and sometimes they are an hour.
Larry: That's great and I hope you listeners out there heard that because
it's a great thing to go after. Now with all the different things
you've done. It already sounds you are a serial entrepreneur. What
was the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Hillary: I think the toughest besides always having the pressure of being a
mom right? Because that's my number one job. That's my number one
love. That's my number one focus and everything. So besides the
juggling of just really being there and I'm also a single mom. So
you add the element of trying to be there for your kids. I think
that what you always have to remember is that this is just a job. I
mean that is ultimately what it is. It's a career choice and that's
the key that I just said. It is a choice.
You're doing this because you ultimately want to spend your time
and your hours doing it. Sometimes what happens is that you can get
caught up in wanting to have something be so successful that you
lose sight of why you actually started to create it in the first
place. I had the opportunity at one time specifically that I will
talk about.
I had a chance to merge the company with another and it all sounded
great. But then when you started to look at the real terms behind
it, it took me away from the core focus of what I had set out to
accomplish initially. I believe that you will be successful if it
goes with what you are passionate about. So it was a challenging
time for me because there was a moment where I could have sold
myself short.
I chose not to and I chose to continue down the path what I truly
believe in and where I believe that this company can go. But those
were tough decisions.
Lucy: Absolutely and it's a great transition to our next question. Around
giving advice to young people about entrepreneurship, so it seems
like one piece of advice you would clearly give them is keep your
perspective. What other things would you advice them about?
Hillary: I would absolutely say ideas can become big, way to big to even
handle so focus, focus, focus. Really put together that one page on
what are you hoping to accomplish? What are your milestones going
to be? Because we lose sight. You're trying to go to that end game,
you're trying to get to be that, the big picture. Where you have to
appreciate the small things that you accomplish.
So putting plans together and I'm dig on a 30 day plan, a 90 day
plan. You have to be organized enough that when you hit those small
successes, you stop and you take note and you say you know what?
That was really good. I was able to accomplish this. Because if you
don't, what happens is you spin and you spin and you spin and you
don't think you're moving forward at all.
You kind of just plateaued. But in reality you actually had. You've
accomplished and you're getting closer to ultimately what you're
trying to build, which is a successful company.
Larry: That's very good advice. Now let me ask you a related question and
that is: What are the personal characteristics that have made you a
good entrepreneur?
Hillary: The characteristics that an entrepreneur needs to have is one you
need to have very thick skin. I mean you just have to have the
ability to get knocked down and get up again. It's this idea that
you've got your integrity. You've got what you initially started
the business to be. But then you are also flexible. I see many
entrepreneurs kind of get on their path. You can't deviate at all
and especially if you're dealing with technology.
Technology, you can't jam in your product. The square into the
circle peg. You can't do it. Sometimes you have to be able to
pivot. You have to be flexible enough to realize, you know what,
this idea isn't that great of an idea anymore. But willing to say,
but hey, maybe this other one is a really good idea.
Lucy: And that's really evolutionary right? Which is a thing that we hear
a lot in these interviews that things will emerge. So Hillary you
mentioned your personal and your professional lives, what kinds of
tips or techniques can you share that help you bring balance to the
two of them?
Hillary: That we're balanced...You know what if you really showed me someone
who truly balanced their lives, please introduce them to me.
Lucy: We don't know anybody.
Larry: We don't.
Hillary: I think it's a fallacy. I think what you can try to do is realize
what's important in your life and look at it as a way to say as I'm
doing right now. I don't feel as guilty when I know over the dinner
table, I'm discussing a new concept or new direction with the
company and I'm gaining the feedback of my own children. It's
interesting, I once heard that you have your life and it's in the
shape of a triangle and it's you.
Your family, the last is your career and the right is kind of this
whole understanding that the health around you, not just your
family.
I think it's almost the point where you have to schedule things
into your life in order to get balance. It's as crazy as saying
that for these two hours I'm going to schedule time with my family
at dinner and I'm not going to do anything else. You have to
actually make it into a meeting so that you know in your head,
nothing else. Cos if you're in a meeting with people, right now,
I'm talking to you but I'm not going off and doing other things.
I'm completely focused on you.
You have to do that with your children. You have to do that with
your health. It's so important because if one of these pieces fail,
it has the tendency to spin off into other areas as well.
Larry: Wow that's also great advice. By the way, I love your website. It's
really super, isn't it?
Lucy: It really is.
Hillary: Well thank you. I'm really proud of it. I think again, trying to be
this trusted source for any parent out there and giving kids a
homebase where they can just go and feel like yeah this is mine.
This is my place.
Larry: Yes that's very good. Now you've already achieved a great deal both
personally and professionally. What's next for you?
Hillary: OK, you're asking an entrepreneur what's next? Well I think that
I'm passionate about the kids phase. I love everything about it.
I'm so excited with new partnerships that I'm developing for
Everloop. I get approached all the time with new technology and it
just fascinates me on how we are spending our lives these days. How
everything is just gammafied around you.
How do you make people interested in doing things without having
everything be about a reward system? You look at kids and I'm a mom
that does it. Hey if you do this, you get this. But it's
interesting because how far will we go? So when I look at where
technology is shaping kids.
I just read that kids are learning to use an iPad before they can
even tie their shoes. This is fascinating to me! I think where I
see myself is really uncovering those great technologies in the
future that aren't detriments to a kids life but enhances.
Larry: You know I think that's so true. I've heard that kids today are
taking three months longer to learn how to walk. That's only
because they've got to learn how to text first.
Hillary: I agree with you.
Lucy: But they can't text while walking.
Hillary: Exactly but when you have my daughter who is 14 and she texts about
a 100 texts a day. She can do it in about 30 seconds and I'm still
the thumbs and trying to get my text. She will look at me and say
"Are you still sending that one text?' She's just light years ahead
of me. I laugh at my 11 year old when she says "Mommy, are you in
this new app?'
She knew Instagram months before I did. It was so great. She's now
telling me " Have you seen this? Have you seen this? Are you
playing draw something?' I love it because I sit down and I'm like
OK again. She's educating me. Now how can I educate all the other
parents in the world?
Lucy: And that's why a one final tip right? Make sure your subject matter
experts live with you.
Hillary: You know what they are the domain experts. I just realize that
right now, but make sure you're not disconnected with it. Make sure
that you embrace it because it is their way of life. If you want to
communicate with your kids going forward, it's not your way. It's
their way or the highway.
Lucy: It's really true. My son was very impressed with me last night when
I sent a photo with a text message.
Larry: Whoa, very good.
Lucy: I know, I graduated. So Hillary, we can't let you go without asking
about your recent appearance on Secret Millionaire. How was that?
That's pretty cool.
Hillary: Oh I have to say I have always been passionate about giving back. I
felt a little hypocritical as I was sitting here on Everloop,
letting kids join fabulous charities and hearing more about what
kids love to volunteer and what they do if they had the ability to
go out and actually make a huge difference. I was approached by
this opportunity and initially I thought I'm not definitely into
the reality world. I barely even watch TV.
I thought more about it and the fact that I could uncover by being
placed in a city that I'm unfamiliar with and uncover wonderful
charities and be able to help them become known. All these unsung
heroes that are doing amazing things. I thought you know what? This
is such a great way now. We've taken one of the charities that I've
uncovered when I was doing the show and this little boy who started
a charity called Love in the Mirror when he was eight years old.
He now has a loop on Everloop and he shares what he is doing in the
community to help make it a better place.
It all came together. It made me feel good. It made the people that
are hearing about what we did feel good. The charities that I got
to meet. I mean I'm still friends with every single one of them.
It's one of those that you feel blessed where something fell into
my lap that was just so outside the box for me. It proved to be one
of the highlights of my life to date.
Lucy: Well it was very compelling. I went and looked out on it on the web
and I think it's the perfect way to end an interview because it
just really defines you and Everloop and what people are using
Everloop for. I know that your site has a page that lists the
charities in case listeners are interested.
Hillary: Well thank you for taking the time to talk with me and I love
talking to you both. Hopefully we will be able to do this again
soon.
Lucy: Great I want to remind listeners again that they can find this
interview at ncwit.org and...
Larry: W3w3.com
Lucy: All right, thank you Hillary.
Larry: Thank you.
Hillary: Take care. Bye-bye.
[music]
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Hilary DeCesareInterview Summary:& As the mother of three young children, Hilary DeCesare recognized the unmet need for a safe environment for kids to connect online with friends, play games, share pictures and music, and learn new skills. With her children in mind, she created Everloop, a social media platform for kids under 13.
Release Date:& August 1, 2012Interview Subject:& Hilary DeCesareInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 19:12https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/hilary.decesare_everloop_8-20-2012.mp3Interview with Genevieve Thiers https://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-genevieve-thiers
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-4879"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/genevieve.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">
An Interview with Genevieve Thiers
Founder, ContactKarma and SitterCity.com
Date: May 7, 2012
[intro music]
Lucy Sanders:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi, this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for&nbsp;Women in Information Technology. This is another in our series of&nbsp;interviews with women who have started tech companies and we've got&nbsp;a great serial entrepreneur to talk to you today.&nbsp;With me is Larry Nelson W3W3.com. Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It's a pleasure to be here and I'm looking forward to this very,&nbsp;very much.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, we've got with us today Genevieve Thiers who is a serial&nbsp;entrepreneur in many spaces. In preparing for this interview, I&nbsp;learned quite a bit about a couple of marketplaces. For example,&nbsp;the need for childcare services. It's an 18 billion dollar market&nbsp;and projected to grow 39 billion by 2015.&nbsp;Genevieve, who was the founder of Sitter City recognized the&nbsp;importance of this marketplace and perhaps she will tell us more&nbsp;about it in this interview when she really set out to tap into it.&nbsp;Long story short, Sitter City, very successful. She has moved on to&nbsp;start another company called Contact Karma, which is really a B to&nbsp;B, business to business matchmaker of sorts, which really uses a&nbsp;combination of deals and recommendations and trusted contacts to&nbsp;match business users with service providers. Genevieve has been&nbsp;recognized nationally.&nbsp;We are very happy to have you here today, Genevieve, to be talking&nbsp;to us. Welcome.
Genevieve Thiers: Well, thanks for having me.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So why don't you tell us just a little bit about what's going on at&nbsp;Contact Karma and if you want to throw any other stories about&nbsp;Sitter City, we'd love to hear them, too.
Genevieve: &nbsp; &nbsp;Sure. Well, one of the great things going on right now is that&nbsp;Chicago is undergoing a tech renaissance really. It's very&nbsp;exciting. I don't know if you guys have been keeping tabs on&nbsp;Chicago's tech entrepreneur scene but we have a number of groups&nbsp;here who have been very staunch advocates of the space.&nbsp;Particularly the CEC.&nbsp;It's just been really exciting. They've recently launched this&nbsp;wonderful new co-working space in Chicago called 1871. It's&nbsp;something like 300, 400 companies all in one spot. All tech&nbsp;companies, all in that early disruptive phase. So as you can&nbsp;imagine I'm in heaven.&nbsp;&nbsp;I actually have a couple of things I'm co-founding right now,&nbsp;mostly with new, emergent women entrepreneurs. So, it's been a real&nbsp;unique thing to springboard into from my Sitter City experience.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We've heard Chicago is quite the hotbed and we have had several&nbsp;interviews now with women tech entrepreneurs from Chicago.&nbsp;Genevieve, can you tell us a little bit about how you first got&nbsp;into technology. You are a serial entrepreneur. It sounds like&nbsp;that's continuing. How did you first get interested and what do you&nbsp;think are the particularly interesting technologies today?
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, frankly, how I got involved in technology is a pretty funny&nbsp;story. It was a complete and total accident. I was an English and&nbsp;Music major in college and trained primarily most of my life in&nbsp;opera since the age of 11. I'm primarily a performer which is very&nbsp;interesting.&nbsp;I fell into tech. I was sitting in my college dorm room my senior&nbsp;year of college in the year 2000. I remember I saw this nine months&nbsp;pregnant mother climbing up 200 steps, posting fliers for&nbsp;babysitters. It was too early for me to go to opera school, my&nbsp;voice wasn't quite ready. Your voice usually matures around the age&nbsp;of 30 and I was in my early 20's.&nbsp;I thought, "Oh gosh, here is something else I could do. I could&nbsp;create a solution to this problem. Why isn't someone taking all the&nbsp;caregivers in the city or the nation and put them all in one place&nbsp;where you can easily find them? But more importantly, just quickly&nbsp;screen them?"&nbsp;So that is what sittercity.com became. It's America's first and&nbsp;largest network to connect parents with caregivers nationwide. We&nbsp;have millions of caregivers in five different divisions: child&nbsp;care, pet care, senior care, home care and tutoring.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It's been quite the success and everybody has been checked out,&nbsp;credentials and so on and so forth.
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We believe that if you are a mom bringing a caregiver into your&nbsp;home, you should be the one to screen them. That's a common sense&nbsp;thing I think a lot of people miss but I am the oldest of seven&nbsp;kids so I was a baby sitter and nanny my whole life. It's really&nbsp;quick to check a caregiver.&nbsp;There is a four step process. You quickly check their references.&nbsp;You do a quick interview. There is usually a background check&nbsp;process, and parents might leave a review. It's a very simple&nbsp;process. It doesn't have to be complicated.&nbsp;Sitter City is quite neat because it allows the sitters to actually run the background check on themselves and it gets posted in their&nbsp;profile for you to see. It's all right there. There's no waiting.&nbsp;There's no 24 hour turnaround time. It's instant access to what you&nbsp;need.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OK. Cool.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah, very cool. What technologies do you think are cool today?
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Oh gosh, what technologies do I think are not cool? Basically,&nbsp;anything that has to do with women in tech. Personally, I like&nbsp;technologies that solve women's problems, particularly problems for&nbsp;moms.&nbsp;Four months ago, I had identical twins, Ari and Leo Ratner, with my&nbsp;husband, Dan Ratner, and they are just adorable. It's amazing how&nbsp;much my own product has just saved my life. I hired this absolutely&nbsp;amazing baby nurse through Sitter City, and she is [laughs] the&nbsp;reason that I'm standing. I'd be on the floor without her.&nbsp;I like solutions that women entrepreneurs tackle to solve issues&nbsp;for other women or other moms.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Let's sing an NCWIT song.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Boy, I'll say.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Absolutely. Genevieve, tell us why you're an entrepreneur. You gave&nbsp;us a little bit of the history of the story about how you first&nbsp;started to think about Sitter City. Why, in general, are you an&nbsp;entrepreneur? What do you like about being an entrepreneur?
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; First of all, there's nothing not to like. It's a crazy roller&nbsp;coaster ride. You're constantly challenging yourself to the utmost.&nbsp;Yeah, it's got real down moments, but it's got some absolutely&nbsp;amazing highs. I think I became an entrepreneur by accident, but&nbsp;then later I began to realize, really, it's the perfect role for&nbsp;me. Did you know that the root of the word entrepreneur actually&nbsp;used to mean an opera impresario?
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is that right? Is that...&nbsp;
[crosstalk]
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It used to refer to an opera producer.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My goodness.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Why would you know that?
[laughter]
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I know that because I'm an opera singer. I just thought, initially,&nbsp;that I would create a company so that I'd have more money for&nbsp;singing, frankly. I didn't want to wait tables, that sort of thing.&nbsp;It turned out to be much, much bigger than that. I'm an accidental&nbsp;entrepreneur, really. I thought, hey, I'll just build this thing.&nbsp;It's just a solution to a problem, and it turned out to just be&nbsp;gigantic, because it was a solution to an enormous problem that&nbsp;women had all over the world. Yeah, it's been a fun ride.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That's fantastic. Now, along the way, who are some of the people&nbsp;who supported you, really helped you get on your way, and your role&nbsp;models or your mentors?
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My main mentor has been my husband, Dan Ratner, who has created a&nbsp;number of companies before he even met me. It's a funny story, too,&nbsp;because I was actually online on match.com researching it, because&nbsp;Sitter City is very similar to the online dating service model. I&nbsp;needed to study the model, and that's where we met.
[laughter]
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; He's so cute. He's had several other companies before he even met&nbsp;me. Then he joined forces with me in 2005 to run Sitter City, which&nbsp;was awesome. He was helping from the beginning.&nbsp;I had a very small site in the beginning that I paid a couple of&nbsp;college friends to build. It started breaking right away, and Dan&nbsp;was right there to fix it every time, so he's been there from the&nbsp;very beginning, working alongside me. That's been wonderful.&nbsp;There's so many organizations in Chicago that are immensely&nbsp;helpful. Like I mentioned, the CEC is just incredible, and I can't&nbsp;wait to be in 1871. I'm actually going to be there with a desk,&nbsp;alongside founding entrepreneurs and other established ones, like&nbsp;myself.&nbsp;Also, the Women's Business Development Center here is great, the&nbsp;I2A Fund. Sitter City just stumbled across these really wonderful&nbsp;organizations as we've moved along. Particularly, what I'm proud&nbsp;of, too, is that we have some wonderful investors, all of whom are&nbsp;dead, I might mention. [laughs]
[laughter]
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [inaudible 08:35] Capital, Latex Capital, New World, and Baird. You&nbsp;get venture partners, all very wonderful firms, and great, great&nbsp;guys. It's really good to have them on the board.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Along the way, as you started Sitter City and also Contact Karma,&nbsp;you said there had been highs, and there had been lows. Tell us&nbsp;about one of the toughest things you've had to do in your career.
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mainly the toughest period I faced with Sitter City was that, in&nbsp;the beginning, I was launching it in the middle of the dot-com&nbsp;crash, and I was literally left out of rooms. I couldn't get the&nbsp;investors to understand it, because they'd never babysat, so I kept&nbsp;hearing, "My wife handles that." I kept thinking, "Gosh, get her in&nbsp;here." [laughs] "She'd understand."&nbsp;This is big. I just, at that point, kept going and built it myself&nbsp;because I was in the middle of the dot-com crash and not even&nbsp;really realizing. I just went ahead and built it myself because I&nbsp;realized that there was an incredible need. The moms I was talking&nbsp;loved it, it was just the investors I had the challenge with.&nbsp;It's funny, companies that built out of challenges, I find, Contact&nbsp;Karma, which is my latest company, is this really neat fusion of&nbsp;the Yelp business model, the review model, and a deal site. What&nbsp;we've done is, we've applied review the deals to the phase.&nbsp;If you're looking for a lawyer, or an accountant, or a bookkeeper,&nbsp;or any kind of vendor, you can go to the Contact Karma website, and&nbsp;you can put that in. We'll send you, within 24 hours,&nbsp;recommendations for our top three recommended vendors. It's not&nbsp;based on what we think, it's based on who else in the Chicago&nbsp;entrepreneurial field has used them and liked them.&nbsp;Then we'll give you a deal as well, so you're saving money, but you&nbsp;know you can trust the vendor. That company came out of an intense&nbsp;need to really just find vendors that weren't going to tank the&nbsp;business situation you're in. That came out of an intense need to&nbsp;basically make sure that vendors, that companies you're using when&nbsp;they're just getting started, don't essentially tank the company.&nbsp;Start-up costs for new companies are very high and we've been able&nbsp;to prove so far, you we can get those down to at least 70 percent&nbsp;of what they used to be, probably 60 percent, by the time we're&nbsp;done. That's exciting to me in addition to the fact that less start-ups will be having wipe-outs because they hired the wrong vendor,&nbsp;and blew a whole bunch of money and don't have any left to try&nbsp;again.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That's a great point and I want to return a moment to the point&nbsp;about Sitter City being bootstrapped. I think it's, again, a good&nbsp;reminder that companies are started in all different ways, and&nbsp;bootstrap is a great alternative in some situations.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah, in many situations.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In many situations.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah, you bet. Now, Genevieve, if you were, right now, sitting at a&nbsp;table, or a desk, and there was a young person who was looking into&nbsp;entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them?
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've got a number of things that I think are really important. The&nbsp;first, most important thing, that I would say to an entrepreneur&nbsp;just getting started is, "There are no problems. There are just&nbsp;sticky situations, waiting for resolutions."
[laughter]
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Problems can't exist for you if you're an entrepreneur,&nbsp;insurmountable ones. You have to see them as opportunities to solve&nbsp;something. It's just interesting. I see a lot of entrepreneurs who&nbsp;think, "I have to solve this problem." They go out and they get all&nbsp;fired up, and then two days later, they give up because somebody&nbsp;poked some holes in it.&nbsp;You can't see holes. You just have to keep rolling right over them&nbsp;and stay focused on your vision, because there's very little out&nbsp;there that people will actually pay for. Once you find something&nbsp;that they will pay for, and you've got a narrow enough niche that&nbsp;you are extrapolating that from, you really can't lose.&nbsp;I have a couple other things I'm always saying. "Keep it simple and&nbsp;stupid. Don't make it complicated at all. Do something that you're&nbsp;familiar with." Those are more traditional pieces of advice,&nbsp;however.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Keeping it simple is important. People over-complicate things all&nbsp;the time.
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Oh my goodness, all you have to do is make sure that it's OK and&nbsp;out the door.
[laughter]
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah.
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You don't need anything in a start-up to ever be perfect.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Absolutely. Well, along the same lines as the previous question,&nbsp;what personal characteristics do you have that you think give you&nbsp;an advantage as an entrepreneur?
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To be honest, you have to have blinders on. [laughs] You have to be&nbsp;that person who's willing to just go running into the field,&nbsp;charging with a flag above your head, with a battle cry. That's not&nbsp;usually the smartest person in the pack, I'll tell you that right&nbsp;now. [laughs] It's usually the dumbest, but, dumb but brave is a&nbsp;good thing. Not really thinking too much about stuff, just hurling&nbsp;yourself into it, is good.&nbsp;I think I had a particularly interesting situation, in that I've&nbsp;never taken a business class in my life. I came out in the middle&nbsp;of the worst dot-com crash, the worst recession really, since the&nbsp;latest one that we've had. I didn't even know we were in a&nbsp;recession. I didn't really know what a recession was. I was&nbsp;[inaudible 13:49] .
[laughter]
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It was funny. I was just an idiot savant. I [inaudible 13:56] and I&nbsp;just kept going off and building it, and it worked, but stress on&nbsp;the idiot part, because it was just something I thought I would do.&nbsp;It was a hobby. That's a good characteristic, the ability to just&nbsp;run with blinders on and not get knocked over by problems coming at&nbsp;you from every side.&nbsp;Also, in my case, I found that being a performer really helped. The&nbsp;more that you get in front of people and perform and evangelize,&nbsp;whether it be yourself, or a song you're singing, or a product, the&nbsp;better you get at it. It's kind of an art.&nbsp;You really do have a challenge when you create a new web tech&nbsp;company because I tend to create things that haven't been done&nbsp;before. Fusions that haven't been done. You have a real challenge&nbsp;getting people to actually do it. It's really hard. You've got to&nbsp;chase them down in supermarkets.
[laughter]
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You've got to do crazy guerilla tactics just to get their&nbsp;attention. I like that. I get a kick out of that, maybe because of&nbsp;the opera training. You can't be afraid to be in front of people&nbsp;and get right in front of them and tell them about what you're&nbsp;doing and talk them into doing it.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That's interesting. The person who has the flag, running out ahead,&nbsp;charge. I think sometimes we call that courage.
[laughter]
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, yes.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It's been called other things, too.
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Or stupidity.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah. I think it's really, really true. The thing you're talking&nbsp;about. You can't get the whole, you just have to keep going.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yep, you betcha. Wow. Now with all of the things that you've been&nbsp;through, I think it's really interesting and neat that you're&nbsp;starting this other company and everything else. How do you bring&nbsp;balance into your personal and your professional lives?
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; One of the interesting things I'm finding, and this was not really&nbsp;deliberate, but it has definitely occurred and it's exciting, is&nbsp;that what I'm building is helping me save time in my life. If you&nbsp;talk to any new mom, the one thing she wants more than anything in&nbsp;the world is time. It's a pretty desperate commodity for most of&nbsp;us.&nbsp;Through Sitter City I found this amazing baby nurse and suddenly I&nbsp;have lots of time. So much time that I'm actually co-founding&nbsp;multiple companies now with new, emerging women tech entrepreneurs&nbsp;in Chicago. That's really exciting. Conjit Cuervo, which is one of&nbsp;the new companies I'm working on, also saves time. One of the&nbsp;things that we do is we have a top ten list of vendors for starting&nbsp;your business, for example.&nbsp;Across these top 10 vendors that we've found, in everything from&nbsp;website design to incorporation to logo creation to your opening&nbsp;document suite that you need for a new company, we've been able to&nbsp;bring the cost of creating a new company down to 70 percent of what&nbsp;it once was.
We're also able to save you time. Imagine how much time it takes&nbsp;the average entrepreneur pounding the phones, talking to people. It&nbsp;can take them days or weeks to find a vendor and suddenly they go&nbsp;to event and stumble across a friend and that friend knows&nbsp;somebody, but it's pure serendipity.&nbsp;I like imposing order on those processes so that I can save time.
[laughter]
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; More time means more time with my husband and my kids.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There you go.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It's great that you can have businesses that integrate so nicely&nbsp;between your personal and your professional life.
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Absolutely and the next two that I've got integrate as well. It's&nbsp;very exciting. There's a mentality I find, particularly among the&nbsp;women tech entrepreneurs that I work with, pure organization.&nbsp;That's really refreshed. It's the ability to not only run a&nbsp;company, but in some cases I've seen them running multiple&nbsp;departments, families, personal lives, artistic lives all alongside&nbsp;each other. It's neat.&nbsp;We're very good at organizing. We might as well try to put that&nbsp;into companies. It's a great skill.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It reinforces something that we really believe at Nancy Witt, that&nbsp;women's creativity really does inform technology products and&nbsp;services.
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Absolutely.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think that it's important to see that instantiated in what's out&nbsp;there. It's very, very inspiring. Genevieve, what's next for you?&nbsp;You've achieved so much and it sounds like you've got more tricks&nbsp;up your sleeve.
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To be honest, I'm just playing. I really came straight out of college into what became Sitter City. Sitter City, today, is just amazing. Not only do we have our subscription service, but we have&nbsp;a corporate program, which is absolutely wonderful in companies&nbsp;like Avon and Mastercard and Monsurowide and the whole U.S.&nbsp;Department of Defense, for example, use Sitter City's corporate&nbsp;programs to, basically, connect their employees with care. That's&nbsp;been incredible.&nbsp;The next phase is international expansion. All of that is just&nbsp;amazing. I never really had a lot of downtime to play around and&nbsp;figure out who I was. I have sung opera professionally, or semi-professionally, in Chicago here and there and kept that up. I'm in&nbsp;this interesting spot where I'm just having a lot of fun. The twins&nbsp;are wonderful.
[laughter]
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That was just an amazing thing to meet them and go through that.&nbsp;Now I'm co-founding a couple of things that help promote new&nbsp;emerging women in tech and I'm auditioning and I'm singing in&nbsp;concerts. I'm just having a blast.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [laughs] Sounds that way.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah.
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I love this time with my family and with myself.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, that's just really awesome and very inspiring to talk to you.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It sure is.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To know that you're there in Chicago, and elsewhere, and making&nbsp;such a big difference. Thank you so much, Genevieve. I want to&nbsp;remind listeners that they can find this interview at w3w3.com and&nbsp;also ncwit.org.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thank you, Larry.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thank you, Genevieve.
Genevieve:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thank you.
[outro music]
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/genevieve-thiers">Genevieve Thiers </a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Genevieve created her first company, Sittercity.com, because she recognized a need for an online space where working mothers could go to find reliable caregivers for their children. A similar concept helped her to develop her newest company, Contact Karma, an online company that strives to match the consumer with a vendor that meets their specific needs. The advice that Genevieve has for aspiring entrepreneurs is that it is important to remember "There are no problems, there are just sticky situations waiting for solutions."</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2012-05-07T00:00:00-06:00">May 7, 2012</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Genevieve Thiers</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">19:17</div></div></div>Mon, 07 May 2012 06:00:00 +0000terry.hoganhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-genevieve-thiers#comments19:17Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:&
An Interview with Genevieve Thiers
Founder, ContactKarma and SitterCity.com
Date: May 7, 2012
[intro music]
Lucy Sanders:& & & & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:&
An Interview with Genevieve Thiers
Founder, ContactKarma and SitterCity.com
Date: May 7, 2012
[intro music]
Lucy Sanders:& & & & Hi, this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for& Women in Information Technology. This is another in our series of& interviews with women who have started tech companies and we've got& a great serial entrepreneur to talk to you today.& With me is Larry Nelson W3W3.com. Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson:& & & & It's a pleasure to be here and I'm looking forward to this very,& very much.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Well, we've got with us today Genevieve Thiers who is a serial& entrepreneur in many spaces. In preparing for this interview, I& learned quite a bit about a couple of marketplaces. For example,& the need for childcare services. It's an 18 billion dollar market& and projected to grow 39 billion by 2015.& Genevieve, who was the founder of Sitter City recognized the& importance of this marketplace and perhaps she will tell us more& about it in this interview when she really set out to tap into it.& Long story short, Sitter City, very successful. She has moved on to& start another company called Contact Karma, which is really a B to& B, business to business matchmaker of sorts, which really uses a& combination of deals and recommendations and trusted contacts to& match business users with service providers. Genevieve has been& recognized nationally.& We are very happy to have you here today, Genevieve, to be talking& to us. Welcome.
Genevieve Thiers: Well, thanks for having me.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & So why don't you tell us just a little bit about what's going on at& Contact Karma and if you want to throw any other stories about& Sitter City, we'd love to hear them, too.
Genevieve: & & Sure. Well, one of the great things going on right now is that& Chicago is undergoing a tech renaissance really. It's very& exciting. I don't know if you guys have been keeping tabs on& Chicago's tech entrepreneur scene but we have a number of groups& here who have been very staunch advocates of the space.& Particularly the CEC.& It's just been really exciting. They've recently launched this& wonderful new co-working space in Chicago called 1871. It's& something like 300, 400 companies all in one spot. All tech& companies, all in that early disruptive phase. So as you can& imagine I'm in heaven.& & I actually have a couple of things I'm co-founding right now,& mostly with new, emergent women entrepreneurs. So, it's been a real& unique thing to springboard into from my Sitter City experience.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & We've heard Chicago is quite the hotbed and we have had several& interviews now with women tech entrepreneurs from Chicago.& Genevieve, can you tell us a little bit about how you first got& into technology. You are a serial entrepreneur. It sounds like& that's continuing. How did you first get interested and what do you& think are the particularly interesting technologies today?
Genevieve:& & & & & & & Well, frankly, how I got involved in technology is a pretty funny& story. It was a complete and total accident. I was an English and& Music major in college and trained primarily most of my life in& opera since the age of 11. I'm primarily a performer which is very& interesting.& I fell into tech. I was sitting in my college dorm room my senior& year of college in the year 2000. I remember I saw this nine months& pregnant mother climbing up 200 steps, posting fliers for& babysitters. It was too early for me to go to opera school, my& voice wasn't quite ready. Your voice usually matures around the age& of 30 and I was in my early 20's.& I thought, "Oh gosh, here is something else I could do. I could& create a solution to this problem. Why isn't someone taking all the& caregivers in the city or the nation and put them all in one place& where you can easily find them? But more importantly, just quickly& screen them?"& So that is what sittercity.com became. It's America's first and& largest network to connect parents with caregivers nationwide. We& have millions of caregivers in five different divisions: child& care, pet care, senior care, home care and tutoring.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & It's been quite the success and everybody has been checked out,& credentials and so on and so forth.
Genevieve:& & & & & & & We believe that if you are a mom bringing a caregiver into your& home, you should be the one to screen them. That's a common sense& thing I think a lot of people miss but I am the oldest of seven& kids so I was a baby sitter and nanny my whole life. It's really& quick to check a caregiver.& There is a four step process. You quickly check their references.& You do a quick interview. There is usually a background check& process, and parents might leave a review. It's a very simple& process. It doesn't have to be complicated.& Sitter City is quite neat because it allows the sitters to actually run the background check on themselves and it gets posted in their& profile for you to see. It's all right there. There's no waiting.& There's no 24 hour turnaround time. It's instant access to what you& need.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & OK. Cool.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah, very cool. What technologies do you think are cool today?
Genevieve:& & & & & & & Oh gosh, what technologies do I think are not cool? Basically,& anything that has to do with women in tech. Personally, I like& technologies that solve women's problems, particularly problems for& moms.& Four months ago, I had identical twins, Ari and Leo Ratner, with my& husband, Dan Ratner, and they are just adorable. It's amazing how& much my own product has just saved my life. I hired this absolutely& amazing baby nurse through Sitter City, and she is [laughs] the& reason that I'm standing. I'd be on the floor without her.& I like solutions that women entrepreneurs tackle to solve issues& for other women or other moms.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Let's sing an NCWIT song.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Boy, I'll say.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Absolutely. Genevieve, tell us why you're an entrepreneur. You gave& us a little bit of the history of the story about how you first& started to think about Sitter City. Why, in general, are you an& entrepreneur? What do you like about being an entrepreneur?
Genevieve:& & & & & & & First of all, there's nothing not to like. It's a crazy roller& coaster ride. You're constantly challenging yourself to the utmost.& Yeah, it's got real down moments, but it's got some absolutely& amazing highs. I think I became an entrepreneur by accident, but& then later I began to realize, really, it's the perfect role for& me. Did you know that the root of the word entrepreneur actually& used to mean an opera impresario?
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Is that right? Is that...&
[crosstalk]
Genevieve:& & & & & & & It used to refer to an opera producer.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & My goodness.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Why would you know that?
[laughter]
Genevieve:& & & & & & & I know that because I'm an opera singer. I just thought, initially,& that I would create a company so that I'd have more money for& singing, frankly. I didn't want to wait tables, that sort of thing.& It turned out to be much, much bigger than that. I'm an accidental& entrepreneur, really. I thought, hey, I'll just build this thing.& It's just a solution to a problem, and it turned out to just be& gigantic, because it was a solution to an enormous problem that& women had all over the world. Yeah, it's been a fun ride.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & That's fantastic. Now, along the way, who are some of the people& who supported you, really helped you get on your way, and your role& models or your mentors?
Genevieve:& & & & & & & My main mentor has been my husband, Dan Ratner, who has created a& number of companies before he even met me. It's a funny story, too,& because I was actually online on match.com researching it, because& Sitter City is very similar to the online dating service model. I& needed to study the model, and that's where we met.
[laughter]
Genevieve:& & & & & & & He's so cute. He's had several other companies before he even met& me. Then he joined forces with me in 2005 to run Sitter City, which& was awesome. He was helping from the beginning.& I had a very small site in the beginning that I paid a couple of& college friends to build. It started breaking right away, and Dan& was right there to fix it every time, so he's been there from the& very beginning, working alongside me. That's been wonderful.& There's so many organizations in Chicago that are immensely& helpful. Like I mentioned, the CEC is just incredible, and I can't& wait to be in 1871. I'm actually going to be there with a desk,& alongside founding entrepreneurs and other established ones, like& myself.& Also, the Women's Business Development Center here is great, the& I2A Fund. Sitter City just stumbled across these really wonderful& organizations as we've moved along. Particularly, what I'm proud& of, too, is that we have some wonderful investors, all of whom are& dead, I might mention. [laughs]
[laughter]
Genevieve:& & & & & & & [inaudible 08:35] Capital, Latex Capital, New World, and Baird. You& get venture partners, all very wonderful firms, and great, great& guys. It's really good to have them on the board.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Along the way, as you started Sitter City and also Contact Karma,& you said there had been highs, and there had been lows. Tell us& about one of the toughest things you've had to do in your career.
Genevieve:& & & & & & & Mainly the toughest period I faced with Sitter City was that, in& the beginning, I was launching it in the middle of the dot-com& crash, and I was literally left out of rooms. I couldn't get the& investors to understand it, because they'd never babysat, so I kept& hearing, "My wife handles that." I kept thinking, "Gosh, get her in& here." [laughs] "She'd understand."& This is big. I just, at that point, kept going and built it myself& because I was in the middle of the dot-com crash and not even& really realizing. I just went ahead and built it myself because I& realized that there was an incredible need. The moms I was talking& loved it, it was just the investors I had the challenge with.& It's funny, companies that built out of challenges, I find, Contact& Karma, which is my latest company, is this really neat fusion of& the Yelp business model, the review model, and a deal site. What& we've done is, we've applied review the deals to the phase.& If you're looking for a lawyer, or an accountant, or a bookkeeper,& or any kind of vendor, you can go to the Contact Karma website, and& you can put that in. We'll send you, within 24 hours,& recommendations for our top three recommended vendors. It's not& based on what we think, it's based on who else in the Chicago& entrepreneurial field has used them and liked them.& Then we'll give you a deal as well, so you're saving money, but you& know you can trust the vendor. That company came out of an intense& need to really just find vendors that weren't going to tank the& business situation you're in. That came out of an intense need to& basically make sure that vendors, that companies you're using when& they're just getting started, don't essentially tank the company.& Start-up costs for new companies are very high and we've been able& to prove so far, you we can get those down to at least 70 percent& of what they used to be, probably 60 percent, by the time we're& done. That's exciting to me in addition to the fact that less start-ups will be having wipe-outs because they hired the wrong vendor,& and blew a whole bunch of money and don't have any left to try& again.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & That's a great point and I want to return a moment to the point& about Sitter City being bootstrapped. I think it's, again, a good& reminder that companies are started in all different ways, and& bootstrap is a great alternative in some situations.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah, in many situations.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & In many situations.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah, you bet. Now, Genevieve, if you were, right now, sitting at a& table, or a desk, and there was a young person who was looking into& entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them?
Genevieve:& & & & & & & I've got a number of things that I think are really important. The& first, most important thing, that I would say to an entrepreneur& just getting started is, "There are no problems. There are just& sticky situations, waiting for resolutions."
[laughter]
Genevieve:& & & & & & & Problems can't exist for you if you're an entrepreneur,& insurmountable ones. You have to see them as opportunities to solve& something. It's just interesting. I see a lot of entrepreneurs who& think, "I have to solve this problem." They go out and they get all& fired up, and then two days later, they give up because somebody& poked some holes in it.& You can't see holes. You just have to keep rolling right over them& and stay focused on your vision, because there's very little out& there that people will actually pay for. Once you find something& that they will pay for, and you've got a narrow enough niche that& you are extrapolating that from, you really can't lose.& I have a couple other things I'm always saying. "Keep it simple and& stupid. Don't make it complicated at all. Do something that you're& familiar with." Those are more traditional pieces of advice,& however.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Keeping it simple is important. People over-complicate things all& the time.
Genevieve:& & & & & & & Oh my goodness, all you have to do is make sure that it's OK and& out the door.
[laughter]
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah.
Genevieve:& & & & & & & You don't need anything in a start-up to ever be perfect.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Absolutely. Well, along the same lines as the previous question,& what personal characteristics do you have that you think give you& an advantage as an entrepreneur?
Genevieve:& & & & & & & To be honest, you have to have blinders on. [laughs] You have to be& that person who's willing to just go running into the field,& charging with a flag above your head, with a battle cry. That's not& usually the smartest person in the pack, I'll tell you that right& now. [laughs] It's usually the dumbest, but, dumb but brave is a& good thing. Not really thinking too much about stuff, just hurling& yourself into it, is good.& I think I had a particularly interesting situation, in that I've& never taken a business class in my life. I came out in the middle& of the worst dot-com crash, the worst recession really, since the& latest one that we've had. I didn't even know we were in a& recession. I didn't really know what a recession was. I was& [inaudible 13:49] .
[laughter]
Genevieve:& & & & & & & It was funny. I was just an idiot savant. I [inaudible 13:56] and I& just kept going off and building it, and it worked, but stress on& the idiot part, because it was just something I thought I would do.& It was a hobby. That's a good characteristic, the ability to just& run with blinders on and not get knocked over by problems coming at& you from every side.& Also, in my case, I found that being a performer really helped. The& more that you get in front of people and perform and evangelize,& whether it be yourself, or a song you're singing, or a product, the& better you get at it. It's kind of an art.& You really do have a challenge when you create a new web tech& company because I tend to create things that haven't been done& before. Fusions that haven't been done. You have a real challenge& getting people to actually do it. It's really hard. You've got to& chase them down in supermarkets.
[laughter]
Genevieve:& & & & & & & You've got to do crazy guerilla tactics just to get their& attention. I like that. I get a kick out of that, maybe because of& the opera training. You can't be afraid to be in front of people& and get right in front of them and tell them about what you're& doing and talk them into doing it.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & That's interesting. The person who has the flag, running out ahead,& charge. I think sometimes we call that courage.
[laughter]
Genevieve:& & & & & & & Well, yes.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & It's been called other things, too.
Genevieve:& & & & & & & Or stupidity.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Yeah. I think it's really, really true. The thing you're talking& about. You can't get the whole, you just have to keep going.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yep, you betcha. Wow. Now with all of the things that you've been& through, I think it's really interesting and neat that you're& starting this other company and everything else. How do you bring& balance into your personal and your professional lives?
Genevieve:& & & & & & & One of the interesting things I'm finding, and this was not really& deliberate, but it has definitely occurred and it's exciting, is& that what I'm building is helping me save time in my life. If you& talk to any new mom, the one thing she wants more than anything in& the world is time. It's a pretty desperate commodity for most of& us.& Through Sitter City I found this amazing baby nurse and suddenly I& have lots of time. So much time that I'm actually co-founding& multiple companies now with new, emerging women tech entrepreneurs& in Chicago. That's really exciting. Conjit Cuervo, which is one of& the new companies I'm working on, also saves time. One of the& things that we do is we have a top ten list of vendors for starting& your business, for example.& Across these top 10 vendors that we've found, in everything from& website design to incorporation to logo creation to your opening& document suite that you need for a new company, we've been able to& bring the cost of creating a new company down to 70 percent of what& it once was.
We're also able to save you time. Imagine how much time it takes& the average entrepreneur pounding the phones, talking to people. It& can take them days or weeks to find a vendor and suddenly they go& to event and stumble across a friend and that friend knows& somebody, but it's pure serendipity.& I like imposing order on those processes so that I can save time.
[laughter]
Genevieve:& & & & & & & More time means more time with my husband and my kids.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & There you go.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & It's great that you can have businesses that integrate so nicely& between your personal and your professional life.
Genevieve:& & & & & & & Absolutely and the next two that I've got integrate as well. It's& very exciting. There's a mentality I find, particularly among the& women tech entrepreneurs that I work with, pure organization.& That's really refreshed. It's the ability to not only run a& company, but in some cases I've seen them running multiple& departments, families, personal lives, artistic lives all alongside& each other. It's neat.& We're very good at organizing. We might as well try to put that& into companies. It's a great skill.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & It reinforces something that we really believe at Nancy Witt, that& women's creativity really does inform technology products and& services.
Genevieve:& & & & & & & Absolutely.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & I think that it's important to see that instantiated in what's out& there. It's very, very inspiring. Genevieve, what's next for you?& You've achieved so much and it sounds like you've got more tricks& up your sleeve.
Genevieve:& & & & & & & To be honest, I'm just playing. I really came straight out of college into what became Sitter City. Sitter City, today, is just amazing. Not only do we have our subscription service, but we have& a corporate program, which is absolutely wonderful in companies& like Avon and Mastercard and Monsurowide and the whole U.S.& Department of Defense, for example, use Sitter City's corporate& programs to, basically, connect their employees with care. That's& been incredible.& The next phase is international expansion. All of that is just& amazing. I never really had a lot of downtime to play around and& figure out who I was. I have sung opera professionally, or semi-professionally, in Chicago here and there and kept that up. I'm in& this interesting spot where I'm just having a lot of fun. The twins& are wonderful.
[laughter]
Genevieve:& & & & & & & That was just an amazing thing to meet them and go through that.& Now I'm co-founding a couple of things that help promote new& emerging women in tech and I'm auditioning and I'm singing in& concerts. I'm just having a blast.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & [laughs] Sounds that way.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah.
Genevieve:& & & & & & & I love this time with my family and with myself.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Well, that's just really awesome and very inspiring to talk to you.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & It sure is.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & To know that you're there in Chicago, and elsewhere, and making& such a big difference. Thank you so much, Genevieve. I want to& remind listeners that they can find this interview at w3w3.com and& also ncwit.org.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Thank you, Larry.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Thank you, Genevieve.
Genevieve:& & & & & & & Thank you.
[outro music]
&
&
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Genevieve Thiers Interview Summary:& Genevieve created her first company, Sittercity.com, because she recognized a need for an online space where working mothers could go to find reliable caregivers for their children. A similar concept helped her to develop her newest company, Contact Karma, an online company that strives to match the consumer with a vendor that meets their specific needs. The advice that Genevieve has for aspiring entrepreneurs is that it is important to remember "There are no problems, there are just sticky situations waiting for solutions."
Release Date:& May 7, 2012Interview Subject:& Genevieve ThiersInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 19:17https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/genevieve.mp3Interview with Talia Mashiachhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-talia-mashiach
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-4875"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/talia.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">
An Interview with Talia Mashiach
CEO and Founder, Eved
Date: April 23, 2012
Lucy Sanders:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi. This is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of The National Center for&nbsp;Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. And with me today is&nbsp;Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi there. I'm really happy to be here again. This is a great&nbsp;series. And the women technologists and entrepreneurs I think are&nbsp;just fabulous.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We've had some great stories. And today's going to be no exception.&nbsp;Today we're interviewing Talia Mashiach, the CEO and Founder of&nbsp;Eved, an online meeting and event marketplace. Eved connects buyers&nbsp;and suppliers -- it's all very cool -- in the meeting and event&nbsp;industry through an easy-to-use online platform which I understand&nbsp;was created through some years of professional services.&nbsp;And then they kind of created a secret sauce and created an online&nbsp;platform to help people who have events and people who supply&nbsp;events. I was reading online that this can help reduce event spend&nbsp;by as much as 25 percent which is something we could use at NCWIT,&nbsp;I have to tell you.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [laughs] Yeah.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We have meetings all over the country and we're definitely going to&nbsp;check Eved out.&nbsp;So Talia is a recognized entrepreneur. She's been inducted into the&nbsp;Chicagoland Entrepreneurship Hall of Fame as well as being named&nbsp;one of the Winning Women by Ernst and Young. So we're really&nbsp;excited to talk with Talia today.&nbsp;Welcome, Talia. Tell us what's going on at Eved.
Talia Mashiach:&nbsp;&nbsp; Thank you very much. I'm really excited to be here.&nbsp;We've had a lot of excitement going on in the last year. As you've&nbsp;mentioned, we launched our online meeting event marketplace first&nbsp;in January 2012 and have continued to get great traction on it. We&nbsp;measure our success based on a number of transactions. Our goal is&nbsp;to move the $263 billion market that's transacting offline, online&nbsp;through Eved. And we did about $7.5 million in transactions last&nbsp;year...
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Wow.
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ...for the full year. And we're already at over $5.5 million for&nbsp;the first three months of this year. And we're really fortunate to&nbsp;do a really nice infusion of capital and get support of some really&nbsp;great VC's. And so the company's on a very exciting path. And it's&nbsp;very intense and fun and challenging.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, it sounds like great growth for a new company.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Boy, I'll say.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, you know the event business is tough business and so anything&nbsp;that helps and saves money I'm sure will be quite popular.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah. Years ago when we had a business where we did a lot of&nbsp;events, I wish we had known you.&nbsp;[laughing]
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp;So Talia, tell us a bit how you first got into technology and as&nbsp;you look into your crystal ball, what technologies do you think&nbsp;will be particularly important in the future?
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You know I always loved business. And especially my passion is&nbsp;around automating business processes.&nbsp;I was exposed to technology back in 2000 when I launched a company called techcloseouts.com. And this was like way back when people&nbsp;didn't really have much in websites, certainly not e-commerce. That&nbsp;was all just beginning to start.&nbsp;And what I did was I sold overstock computers from Dell to small&nbsp;businesses. And what I was doing was I was taking those orders by&nbsp;phone and then faxing the orders into the warehouse. I was moving&nbsp;it around and trying to manage all the clients.&nbsp;And I just thought there needed to be another way to do that that&nbsp;would be so much faster. And I said, OK, why don't I build a&nbsp;website that can automate this entire process so that I have the&nbsp;inventory from Dell even before it ships. And my customers can go&nbsp;and see it, they can order it, and then it can ship directly from&nbsp;Dell to the warehouse to the customer. And then I don't have to sit&nbsp;and pick up the phone and go back and forth with all these things.&nbsp;And that was kind of the starting point where I said I have to turn&nbsp;this into something on the web where I was exposed to technology.&nbsp;I've been in it ever since.&nbsp;I think you know what's really cool today around technology and one&nbsp;of the things I see is that I think the future is going to be&nbsp;around cloud collaboration, certainly around business software. I&nbsp;think it needs to start looking and feeling a lot more like the&nbsp;applications that people are used to using in their daily lives,&nbsp;like Facebook or LinkedIn.&nbsp;And businesses use email. They use it for everything. And it's&nbsp;completely overused and not even used in the way that it was&nbsp;originally intended. So just like you used to have to email your&nbsp;pictures, like to 10 different friends from your vacation and then&nbsp;it would sit in everybody's email and take up everybody's space and&nbsp;they'd all keep it in their email accounts.&nbsp;And then you have Facebook. You post your pictures once online and&nbsp;you invite your friends who can see them. And they all get to see&nbsp;them. And it's in one place and you can collaborate in that one&nbsp;place.&nbsp;So that's what we're really doing it at Eved. We're really focused&nbsp;on that collaboration, you know, as a business application for the&nbsp;event space.&nbsp;Specifically a good example of that is that we have a product&nbsp;called Private Networks. That's the ability for the meeting&nbsp;planners to manage their suppliers in a similar way. So they can&nbsp;kind of create a directory so the suppliers go in and they create&nbsp;their profile. They manage a beautiful profile just one time. And&nbsp;the buyers just go in and invite their suppliers to be in their&nbsp;private network. They just accept an invitation and it appears&nbsp;there. And then there's all this collaboration that goes on.&nbsp;If there's a change in contact information or they need to change&nbsp;products or they need to change anything else, the supplier just&nbsp;changes it once. And it updates, obviously, for all of their&nbsp;buyers. So it's just some really cool stuff that I think will&nbsp;continue in the cloud collaboration space around business&nbsp;technology.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That's really fascinating. Once again, I wish we'd known you years&nbsp;ago.
[laughing]
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Now, here's a two-part question. Why are you an entrepreneur? And&nbsp;then what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, I think that entrepreneurs have some common traits that make&nbsp;us really different from most people.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [laughs]
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; First of all, I think we love to problem-solve. The harder the&nbsp;challenge, the more excited and motivated we get.&nbsp;I think that we're very goal-oriented and driven to succeed. And&nbsp;when most people would give up and, you know, stop climbing that&nbsp;mountain, the successful entrepreneurs that you read about are the&nbsp;ones that persevered, that just kept going. No one was able to stop&nbsp;them. When 50 people said no, they looked to the 51st person and&nbsp;kept going. I think that is incredibly unique.&nbsp;I also think that we like to create things from nothing. So we're&nbsp;builders. It is, you know, probably the challenge around building&nbsp;something is what we really like. It's that giving something life&nbsp;that didn't exist is an incredible fulfillment.&nbsp;And I think that, you know, your life and your work, your career&nbsp;take up a tremendous amount of time in your life and you need to&nbsp;spend it doing things that you love. And so I love to build and&nbsp;grow companies. I think I have a lot of these traits that make up&nbsp;the entrepreneur and make us a little different than everyone else.&nbsp;I think that's why I'm an entrepreneur.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Excellent.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, that's a great definition of entrepreneurship.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Boy, I'll say.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; And along your path, who influenced you? What types of mentors?&nbsp;What kinds of things can you say around what prompted you to become&nbsp;an entrepreneur?
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't think I'm very old at 35. But when I was in college there&nbsp;wasn't all this excitement around entrepreneurship. There weren't&nbsp;classes, at least that I was aware of. It wasn't like everyone&nbsp;said, oh, I'm going to become an entrepreneur. I see so much of&nbsp;that now today.&nbsp;So I don't think I ever thought of myself...although I used to&nbsp;tinkle with lots of different little businesses when I was&nbsp;younger...I never thought when I was younger that I want to grow up&nbsp;to be an entrepreneur and I want to go start companies.&nbsp;What I knew I did was I loved business. And I went to business&nbsp;school. I had a family very young. It was really important to me to&nbsp;be able to be home and to raise my kids. And so I started a company&nbsp;because I wanted to do something that gave me a little bit more&nbsp;flexibility and allowed me to be home with my kids.&nbsp;So out of college, I was at home with my kids, but I was still&nbsp;looking for something else. You know, you have that drive, that&nbsp;passion, all those things I mentioned before, that you want to do.&nbsp;But yet I didn't want to go put 18 hours into a job and not have&nbsp;any time with my children.&nbsp;So I think it just kind of naturally happened when I had this extra&nbsp;time to say, OK, then what am I going to do? And then it sort of&nbsp;just grew from there.&nbsp;You know, obviously now the place where we're at today and growing&nbsp;a large company is not quite a small business out of my house&nbsp;because as entrepreneurs do, we like to keep building and we like&nbsp;to keep growing. And we never stop.&nbsp;But that was sort of my starting point. And I don't think I&nbsp;originally ever set out to do.&nbsp;I had a number of different mentors and role models that helped&nbsp;shape my path. I think that most entrepreneurs will say, maybe the&nbsp;older ones, I don't know that I was ever going to say I would be an&nbsp;entrepreneur. But there were certain things that shaped me to get&nbsp;me there. And a lot of that had to do with people that influenced&nbsp;you.&nbsp;So Ed Chen was one of my very first clients in my last company, a&nbsp;service company. That was really my first real large company. And&nbsp;you know the biggest thing was that he gave me a chance and&nbsp;believed in me. And you never forget that. You never forget that&nbsp;first person who you need to be able to give you that chance until&nbsp;you can prove yourself.&nbsp;And I'd also say Michael Farrow, a tech entrepreneur in Chicago&nbsp;that has built some successful companies and now really works in leadership and involved in entrepreneurs. He really was the one who&nbsp;said I know you like your lifestyle business but you've got the&nbsp;ability to really go build a big technology success story. And he&nbsp;really pushed me just to take that leap and do it.&nbsp;I'd also say my father has been a great role model. And I probably&nbsp;migrate to other entrepreneurs who have experienced what I have yet&nbsp;to experience so that I can learn from them and that share similar&nbsp;values to me. Like the values of building a great company where you&nbsp;feel like you've really built something wonderful. And because of&nbsp;that you have great profits.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; M-hmm. Wow.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Wow. You know those stories of encouragement are so important. I&nbsp;know listeners have heard that before...the power of encouragement&nbsp;to spark peoples' careers. It's really, really important.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah, for sure. I have a feeling you're going to be a mentor to a&nbsp;number of people.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think so...probably already.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah.
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah. I do spend a lot of my time...well I shouldn't say a&nbsp;lot...the time that I do have outside my five children and building&nbsp;a company...I do try to spend some time with entrepreneurs who are&nbsp;where I was because I am so grateful for all the entrepreneurs that&nbsp;are ahead of me and that spend time with me.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Wow. Yeah, I've got a lot of empathy for you. We have five children&nbsp;also.
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Oh wow!
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; With all the stuff you've been through, what is the toughest thing&nbsp;that you've had to do, in your career?
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd probably put two different categories. Probably the biggest&nbsp;thing was risking every dollar I had. It was based on believing in&nbsp;myself, that I would succeed. When you get to that point where&nbsp;you've really got to put it all on the line, you've got to really&nbsp;look at yourself and say, "Can I do this?" I had four kids, and I&nbsp;had a mortgage and everything else. I just said, "I can do this",&nbsp;and that was really hard. That was probably the toughest thing, to&nbsp;just take the leap and go do it.&nbsp;As far as from a business standpoint, I think the toughest thing&nbsp;that happened is when you have to go tell a client, or anyone that&nbsp;for whatever you set yourself up to do, that you didn't reach those&nbsp;expectations. Whether it was a service that you were supposed to&nbsp;deliver, whether it was delivering a result, profitable result, or&nbsp;sales result for investors, or anything.&nbsp;I think it's that overall, we set such high expectations for&nbsp;ourselves, as entrepreneurs. We want to deliver on those, and we're&nbsp;probably our harshest critics. The hardest thing is when, for&nbsp;whatever reason, you don't deliver.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That is true. I learned that at Bell Labs. I also learned that if&nbsp;you were honest with the client as soon as you knew, and told them&nbsp;what was going on, 90 percent of the time they understood and they&nbsp;worked with you. It's really difficult to tell them that, I agree&nbsp;with that.&nbsp;Talia, if you were sitting here today with a young person and you&nbsp;were giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what would you tell&nbsp;them?
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I would tell them that they should really find something that they&nbsp;absolutely love, then ask themselves to honestly take a look and&nbsp;say "Am I willing to persevere, and take all the risks that it's&nbsp;going to take to get to the goal?"&nbsp;I think that we hear a lot of these glorious stories, and it's&nbsp;great, there are a lot of opportunities out there. But the ones&nbsp;that succeed are the ones that do take those risks and do&nbsp;persevere. Not everybody can do that, and it's important to&nbsp;understand that that's what it's going to take, and know those&nbsp;expectations, that work ethic, that never giving up.&nbsp;I'd tell them to really think about that. The only way that you are&nbsp;going to be able to do what it takes, through all those sleepless&nbsp;nights, and all those worries and everything else, is because you&nbsp;love what you do. If you don't love it, you're not going to be able&nbsp;to take all those risks and have all those challenges, in order to&nbsp;make that happen.&nbsp;I think that that mountain is really high and you have to keep&nbsp;climbing it, and sometimes that top looks so far away, but if you&nbsp;really believe in yourself and you love it, then you can get there.&nbsp;I would also tell them that I think it's important to make sure&nbsp;that they understand what their personal goals in life are. Why do&nbsp;you want to be an entrepreneur? Why do you want to create a&nbsp;company? Is it for money? Is it for flexibility? Is it for&nbsp;fulfillment? Is it for enjoyment? That you could build something?&nbsp;What is it? Then just remember why you're doing it as you go down&nbsp;your path.&nbsp;I think the path takes you in different ways, and you want to make&nbsp;sure you pick that path that gets you to the reason why you did it&nbsp;to begin with.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Talia, you have really said a number of different things, and given&nbsp;us some great advice. You've touched on my next question, and that&nbsp;is, what are your personal characteristics that you think have&nbsp;given you the advantages of being an entrepreneur?
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The number one thing I think that you need is passion. I've never&nbsp;met a successful entrepreneur that wasn't passionate. Even when I&nbsp;look at people who are successful for passion.&nbsp;I also think it takes leadership skills. It's not just about having&nbsp;a great idea, it's about leading your team to actually create that&nbsp;vision, to make it happen. Work ethic, as I mentioned before. It is&nbsp;incredibly hard, a lot of work and a lot of focus to build a&nbsp;company and to make it successful. You've got to be willing to be&nbsp;that person who works. You've got to be able to work hard at it.&nbsp;I think you've got to have confidence in yourself, you've got to&nbsp;believe in yourself. Not arrogance, but confidence that you can do&nbsp;it. There's so many times where everybody's going to tell you you&nbsp;can't. If you don't believe in yourself, then no one else will&nbsp;believe in you.&nbsp;I think that I'm lucky to have the support of my family. I don't&nbsp;know that I could do it without that. It takes a tremendous amount&nbsp;of time and energy, and you need the people around you to be able&nbsp;to support you in that.&nbsp;I also think one of the things that actually helps me as an&nbsp;entrepreneur, is that I think I'm very human. I have five kids to&nbsp;go home to, that need their mom. That keeps you really, really&nbsp;grounded. When you're going through all kinds of things, when&nbsp;you're in the media, when people want to talk to you. All that&nbsp;stuff doesn't really matter that much when you're really grounded.&nbsp;I think the kids really do that for me.&nbsp;I think being a likeable person is important. People have to want&nbsp;to help you. You're not going to be able to do this on your own. If&nbsp;people like you, and they want to help you, then you're going to&nbsp;get the support that you need.&nbsp;And I think that the last two things would be the ability to&nbsp;motivate others to be better than what they ever thought they could&nbsp;be. Because it takes being better than you ever thought you could&nbsp;be to build something. And you need to be able to motivate them to&nbsp;do that and motivate everyone around you.&nbsp;And lastly, I think you need to be a person that in which you can&nbsp;get other people to believe in you. Because there are going to be a&nbsp;lot of times where they're going to have to take a leap of faith.&nbsp;Whether it's your first client, whether it's your suppliers,&nbsp;whether it's a bank, whether it's investors, whether it's your own&nbsp;family. And you've got to be able to convince them to believe in&nbsp;you which obviously starts with believing in yourself.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Great advice. Great advice. I think that this last thing that you&nbsp;mentioned around others must believe in you and take a leap of&nbsp;faith is so tied to leadership, as well. You're not a leader if&nbsp;there's no one there to follow. You mentioned your family and you&nbsp;mentioned how they make you more human. How do you actually bring&nbsp;that balance to your personal and your work lives?
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It's a challenge, all the time. I speak with other women...You&nbsp;know, as women we're just a little bit unique because we don't want&nbsp;to give up our roles at home. Even if we have husbands that maybe&nbsp;would be willing to stay home, we still want to be the mom. We want&nbsp;to make sure that we can manage the home.&nbsp;And so we just have a tremendous amount of responsibility and it's&nbsp;an ongoing challenge to just try and balance where you can be there&nbsp;for your kids and you can be there for everyone in your company. We&nbsp;say it's one of your families and your other family.&nbsp;What I try to do is, for me, my family, my husband, my kids are really the most important thing to me and that is very grounding as&nbsp;well. Because when everything happens in your company and things go&nbsp;as they always do, at the end of the day you say, you know what?&nbsp;I've got my family and that's what really matters. It kind of just&nbsp;relaxes you quite a bit when you realize what's truly important. I&nbsp;love spending time with my kids, I enjoy that.&nbsp;What I've done is I actually try to work out a schedule that I can&nbsp;see them off to school two days a week and then be home with them&nbsp;when they get home the other two days. I'll leave at 6:45 in the&nbsp;morning twice a week but I'll be home by 4:30 and then the other&nbsp;two days I'll leave at 9:00 but then I'll come home very late. It's&nbsp;things like that. Or just try to do once a week where I'm out later&nbsp;with clients and then one breakfast a week.&nbsp;So it's really everyone at both sides so it's my family&nbsp;understanding what my schedule is. And that's really what it is,&nbsp;they know that there's schedules and there's expectations and&nbsp;everyone's good with that. And the office, they know what my&nbsp;schedule is and when I'm going to be here. That seems to be really&nbsp;huge in helping me to be able to balance everybody that needs quite&nbsp;a bit of time from me.&nbsp;But it's tough and I continue to look at different tips to do that.&nbsp;I actually have "Twitter" account "CEOMOM5" where I try to put tips&nbsp;around different things I do as a mom that makes me more efficient.&nbsp;And then what I do as an entrepreneur and what I've learned as an&nbsp;entrepreneur.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I looked at that. I thought it was a very interesting mix of&nbsp;information.
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Probably only could come from a woman CEO.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; But I thought it was great. And I thought it pointed out what I've&nbsp;thought to be true for quite some time. There really is some&nbsp;integration between your family and your business. Not to say that&nbsp;you're not spending time with one or the other but that everybody&nbsp;knows what's going on.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; And by the way, Lucy lives that, too. That's great.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Although my babies are 29 and 25.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; They're babies as far as I'm concerned. Talia, you have done so&nbsp;much and I can feel your energy. You've achieved a lot already.&nbsp;What's next for you?
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I really want to build "Eved" into a great company. As a market&nbsp;leader in the event market space. This space, this industry. is a&nbsp;manual, fragmented, 263 billion dollar industry that is transacting&nbsp;everything off-line. I want to be someone who's part of that&nbsp;leadership to bring the market on-line, and to truly create event&nbsp;commerce which really doesn't necessarily happen today.&nbsp;My goal is to really take "Eved" to an IPO and build it to a great&nbsp;company. I think the reason for that is I feel like I can. I feel&nbsp;like I do it and that's exciting for me. In my near future, I'm&nbsp;really focused around Eved and learning a tremendous amount along&nbsp;the journey and enjoying it as a lot of my friends who've had the&nbsp;opportunity to be able to build companies from scratch and take&nbsp;them to an exit.&nbsp;They always tell me that it is really the journey that was most fulfilling and exciting. And the end is good but they always look&nbsp;back at the journey. And while they were on the journey, they were&nbsp;so focused on getting to the exit that they didn't even get a&nbsp;chance to enjoy that journey. So, I'm really trying to enjoy the&nbsp;journey as we go down this exciting path.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, best of luck to you. I mean, what a great business to be in.&nbsp;And it so reinforces what you were interested in your early days on&nbsp;automated business processes. It's great that you have a company&nbsp;like that.
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Super.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, thank you so much for talking to us.
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thank you very much.
Lucy:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I just wanted to remind listeners they can find this interview at&nbsp;w3w3.com and ncwit.org
Larry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That's a fact. We are really looking forward to it. Thanks very&nbsp;much, Talia.
Talia:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thank you.
[music]
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/talia-mashiach">Talia Mashiach</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Inspired by her love for business and technology, Talia Mashiach was driven to develop Eved, an online meeting and event services marketplace that is revolutionizing the event services industry. Talia has said about entrepreneurs as a group: "We are builders...Giving life to something that didn’t exist is an incredible fulfillment." This passion explains why Eved is such a success.</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2012-04-23T00:00:00-06:00">April 23, 2012</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Talia Mashiach</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">21:57</div></div></div>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:00:00 +0000terry.hoganhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-talia-mashiach#comments21:58Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:&
An Interview with Talia Mashiach
CEO and Founder, Eved
Date: April 23, 2012
Lucy Sanders:& & & & Hi. This is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of The National Center for&nb...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:&
An Interview with Talia Mashiach
CEO and Founder, Eved
Date: April 23, 2012
Lucy Sanders:& & & & Hi. This is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of The National Center for& Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. And with me today is& Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry.
Larry Nelson:& & & & Hi there. I'm really happy to be here again. This is a great& series. And the women technologists and entrepreneurs I think are& just fabulous.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & We've had some great stories. And today's going to be no exception.& Today we're interviewing Talia Mashiach, the CEO and Founder of& Eved, an online meeting and event marketplace. Eved connects buyers& and suppliers -- it's all very cool -- in the meeting and event& industry through an easy-to-use online platform which I understand& was created through some years of professional services.& And then they kind of created a secret sauce and created an online& platform to help people who have events and people who supply& events. I was reading online that this can help reduce event spend& by as much as 25 percent which is something we could use at NCWIT,& I have to tell you.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & [laughs] Yeah.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & We have meetings all over the country and we're definitely going to& check Eved out.& So Talia is a recognized entrepreneur. She's been inducted into the& Chicagoland Entrepreneurship Hall of Fame as well as being named& one of the Winning Women by Ernst and Young. So we're really& excited to talk with Talia today.& Welcome, Talia. Tell us what's going on at Eved.
Talia Mashiach:& & Thank you very much. I'm really excited to be here.& We've had a lot of excitement going on in the last year. As you've& mentioned, we launched our online meeting event marketplace first& in January 2012 and have continued to get great traction on it. We& measure our success based on a number of transactions. Our goal is& to move the $263 billion market that's transacting offline, online& through Eved. And we did about $7.5 million in transactions last& year...
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Wow.
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & ...for the full year. And we're already at over $5.5 million for& the first three months of this year. And we're really fortunate to& do a really nice infusion of capital and get support of some really& great VC's. And so the company's on a very exciting path. And it's& very intense and fun and challenging.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Well, it sounds like great growth for a new company.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Boy, I'll say.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Well, you know the event business is tough business and so anything& that helps and saves money I'm sure will be quite popular.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah. Years ago when we had a business where we did a lot of& events, I wish we had known you.& [laughing]
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Absolutely.& So Talia, tell us a bit how you first got into technology and as& you look into your crystal ball, what technologies do you think& will be particularly important in the future?
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & You know I always loved business. And especially my passion is& around automating business processes.& I was exposed to technology back in 2000 when I launched a company called techcloseouts.com. And this was like way back when people& didn't really have much in websites, certainly not e-commerce. That& was all just beginning to start.& And what I did was I sold overstock computers from Dell to small& businesses. And what I was doing was I was taking those orders by& phone and then faxing the orders into the warehouse. I was moving& it around and trying to manage all the clients.& And I just thought there needed to be another way to do that that& would be so much faster. And I said, OK, why don't I build a& website that can automate this entire process so that I have the& inventory from Dell even before it ships. And my customers can go& and see it, they can order it, and then it can ship directly from& Dell to the warehouse to the customer. And then I don't have to sit& and pick up the phone and go back and forth with all these things.& And that was kind of the starting point where I said I have to turn& this into something on the web where I was exposed to technology.& I've been in it ever since.& I think you know what's really cool today around technology and one& of the things I see is that I think the future is going to be& around cloud collaboration, certainly around business software. I& think it needs to start looking and feeling a lot more like the& applications that people are used to using in their daily lives,& like Facebook or LinkedIn.& And businesses use email. They use it for everything. And it's& completely overused and not even used in the way that it was& originally intended. So just like you used to have to email your& pictures, like to 10 different friends from your vacation and then& it would sit in everybody's email and take up everybody's space and& they'd all keep it in their email accounts.& And then you have Facebook. You post your pictures once online and& you invite your friends who can see them. And they all get to see& them. And it's in one place and you can collaborate in that one& place.& So that's what we're really doing it at Eved. We're really focused& on that collaboration, you know, as a business application for the& event space.& Specifically a good example of that is that we have a product& called Private Networks. That's the ability for the meeting& planners to manage their suppliers in a similar way. So they can& kind of create a directory so the suppliers go in and they create& their profile. They manage a beautiful profile just one time. And& the buyers just go in and invite their suppliers to be in their& private network. They just accept an invitation and it appears& there. And then there's all this collaboration that goes on.& If there's a change in contact information or they need to change& products or they need to change anything else, the supplier just& changes it once. And it updates, obviously, for all of their& buyers. So it's just some really cool stuff that I think will& continue in the cloud collaboration space around business& technology.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & That's really fascinating. Once again, I wish we'd known you years& ago.
[laughing]
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Now, here's a two-part question. Why are you an entrepreneur? And& then what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & Well, I think that entrepreneurs have some common traits that make& us really different from most people.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & [laughs]
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & First of all, I think we love to problem-solve. The harder the& challenge, the more excited and motivated we get.& I think that we're very goal-oriented and driven to succeed. And& when most people would give up and, you know, stop climbing that& mountain, the successful entrepreneurs that you read about are the& ones that persevered, that just kept going. No one was able to stop& them. When 50 people said no, they looked to the 51st person and& kept going. I think that is incredibly unique.& I also think that we like to create things from nothing. So we're& builders. It is, you know, probably the challenge around building& something is what we really like. It's that giving something life& that didn't exist is an incredible fulfillment.& And I think that, you know, your life and your work, your career& take up a tremendous amount of time in your life and you need to& spend it doing things that you love. And so I love to build and& grow companies. I think I have a lot of these traits that make up& the entrepreneur and make us a little different than everyone else.& I think that's why I'm an entrepreneur.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Excellent.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Well, that's a great definition of entrepreneurship.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Boy, I'll say.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & And along your path, who influenced you? What types of mentors?& What kinds of things can you say around what prompted you to become& an entrepreneur?
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & I don't think I'm very old at 35. But when I was in college there& wasn't all this excitement around entrepreneurship. There weren't& classes, at least that I was aware of. It wasn't like everyone& said, oh, I'm going to become an entrepreneur. I see so much of& that now today.& So I don't think I ever thought of myself...although I used to& tinkle with lots of different little businesses when I was& younger...I never thought when I was younger that I want to grow up& to be an entrepreneur and I want to go start companies.& What I knew I did was I loved business. And I went to business& school. I had a family very young. It was really important to me to& be able to be home and to raise my kids. And so I started a company& because I wanted to do something that gave me a little bit more& flexibility and allowed me to be home with my kids.& So out of college, I was at home with my kids, but I was still& looking for something else. You know, you have that drive, that& passion, all those things I mentioned before, that you want to do.& But yet I didn't want to go put 18 hours into a job and not have& any time with my children.& So I think it just kind of naturally happened when I had this extra& time to say, OK, then what am I going to do? And then it sort of& just grew from there.& You know, obviously now the place where we're at today and growing& a large company is not quite a small business out of my house& because as entrepreneurs do, we like to keep building and we like& to keep growing. And we never stop.& But that was sort of my starting point. And I don't think I& originally ever set out to do.& I had a number of different mentors and role models that helped& shape my path. I think that most entrepreneurs will say, maybe the& older ones, I don't know that I was ever going to say I would be an& entrepreneur. But there were certain things that shaped me to get& me there. And a lot of that had to do with people that influenced& you.& So Ed Chen was one of my very first clients in my last company, a& service company. That was really my first real large company. And& you know the biggest thing was that he gave me a chance and& believed in me. And you never forget that. You never forget that& first person who you need to be able to give you that chance until& you can prove yourself.& And I'd also say Michael Farrow, a tech entrepreneur in Chicago& that has built some successful companies and now really works in leadership and involved in entrepreneurs. He really was the one who& said I know you like your lifestyle business but you've got the& ability to really go build a big technology success story. And he& really pushed me just to take that leap and do it.& I'd also say my father has been a great role model. And I probably& migrate to other entrepreneurs who have experienced what I have yet& to experience so that I can learn from them and that share similar& values to me. Like the values of building a great company where you& feel like you've really built something wonderful. And because of& that you have great profits.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & M-hmm. Wow.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Wow. You know those stories of encouragement are so important. I& know listeners have heard that before...the power of encouragement& to spark peoples' careers. It's really, really important.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah, for sure. I have a feeling you're going to be a mentor to a& number of people.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & I think so...probably already.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah.
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah. I do spend a lot of my time...well I shouldn't say a& lot...the time that I do have outside my five children and building& a company...I do try to spend some time with entrepreneurs who are& where I was because I am so grateful for all the entrepreneurs that& are ahead of me and that spend time with me.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Wow. Yeah, I've got a lot of empathy for you. We have five children& also.
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & Oh wow!
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & With all the stuff you've been through, what is the toughest thing& that you've had to do, in your career?
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & I'd probably put two different categories. Probably the biggest& thing was risking every dollar I had. It was based on believing in& myself, that I would succeed. When you get to that point where& you've really got to put it all on the line, you've got to really& look at yourself and say, "Can I do this?" I had four kids, and I& had a mortgage and everything else. I just said, "I can do this",& and that was really hard. That was probably the toughest thing, to& just take the leap and go do it.& As far as from a business standpoint, I think the toughest thing& that happened is when you have to go tell a client, or anyone that& for whatever you set yourself up to do, that you didn't reach those& expectations. Whether it was a service that you were supposed to& deliver, whether it was delivering a result, profitable result, or& sales result for investors, or anything.& I think it's that overall, we set such high expectations for& ourselves, as entrepreneurs. We want to deliver on those, and we're& probably our harshest critics. The hardest thing is when, for& whatever reason, you don't deliver.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Yeah.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & That is true. I learned that at Bell Labs. I also learned that if& you were honest with the client as soon as you knew, and told them& what was going on, 90 percent of the time they understood and they& worked with you. It's really difficult to tell them that, I agree& with that.& Talia, if you were sitting here today with a young person and you& were giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what would you tell& them?
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & I would tell them that they should really find something that they& absolutely love, then ask themselves to honestly take a look and& say "Am I willing to persevere, and take all the risks that it's& going to take to get to the goal?"& I think that we hear a lot of these glorious stories, and it's& great, there are a lot of opportunities out there. But the ones& that succeed are the ones that do take those risks and do& persevere. Not everybody can do that, and it's important to& understand that that's what it's going to take, and know those& expectations, that work ethic, that never giving up.& I'd tell them to really think about that. The only way that you are& going to be able to do what it takes, through all those sleepless& nights, and all those worries and everything else, is because you& love what you do. If you don't love it, you're not going to be able& to take all those risks and have all those challenges, in order to& make that happen.& I think that that mountain is really high and you have to keep& climbing it, and sometimes that top looks so far away, but if you& really believe in yourself and you love it, then you can get there.& I would also tell them that I think it's important to make sure& that they understand what their personal goals in life are. Why do& you want to be an entrepreneur? Why do you want to create a& company? Is it for money? Is it for flexibility? Is it for& fulfillment? Is it for enjoyment? That you could build something?& What is it? Then just remember why you're doing it as you go down& your path.& I think the path takes you in different ways, and you want to make& sure you pick that path that gets you to the reason why you did it& to begin with.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Talia, you have really said a number of different things, and given& us some great advice. You've touched on my next question, and that& is, what are your personal characteristics that you think have& given you the advantages of being an entrepreneur?
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & The number one thing I think that you need is passion. I've never& met a successful entrepreneur that wasn't passionate. Even when I& look at people who are successful for passion.& I also think it takes leadership skills. It's not just about having& a great idea, it's about leading your team to actually create that& vision, to make it happen. Work ethic, as I mentioned before. It is& incredibly hard, a lot of work and a lot of focus to build a& company and to make it successful. You've got to be willing to be& that person who works. You've got to be able to work hard at it.& I think you've got to have confidence in yourself, you've got to& believe in yourself. Not arrogance, but confidence that you can do& it. There's so many times where everybody's going to tell you you& can't. If you don't believe in yourself, then no one else will& believe in you.& I think that I'm lucky to have the support of my family. I don't& know that I could do it without that. It takes a tremendous amount& of time and energy, and you need the people around you to be able& to support you in that.& I also think one of the things that actually helps me as an& entrepreneur, is that I think I'm very human. I have five kids to& go home to, that need their mom. That keeps you really, really& grounded. When you're going through all kinds of things, when& you're in the media, when people want to talk to you. All that& stuff doesn't really matter that much when you're really grounded.& I think the kids really do that for me.& I think being a likeable person is important. People have to want& to help you. You're not going to be able to do this on your own. If& people like you, and they want to help you, then you're going to& get the support that you need.& And I think that the last two things would be the ability to& motivate others to be better than what they ever thought they could& be. Because it takes being better than you ever thought you could& be to build something. And you need to be able to motivate them to& do that and motivate everyone around you.& And lastly, I think you need to be a person that in which you can& get other people to believe in you. Because there are going to be a& lot of times where they're going to have to take a leap of faith.& Whether it's your first client, whether it's your suppliers,& whether it's a bank, whether it's investors, whether it's your own& family. And you've got to be able to convince them to believe in& you which obviously starts with believing in yourself.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Great advice. Great advice. I think that this last thing that you& mentioned around others must believe in you and take a leap of& faith is so tied to leadership, as well. You're not a leader if& there's no one there to follow. You mentioned your family and you& mentioned how they make you more human. How do you actually bring& that balance to your personal and your work lives?
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & It's a challenge, all the time. I speak with other women...You& know, as women we're just a little bit unique because we don't want& to give up our roles at home. Even if we have husbands that maybe& would be willing to stay home, we still want to be the mom. We want& to make sure that we can manage the home.& And so we just have a tremendous amount of responsibility and it's& an ongoing challenge to just try and balance where you can be there& for your kids and you can be there for everyone in your company. We& say it's one of your families and your other family.& What I try to do is, for me, my family, my husband, my kids are really the most important thing to me and that is very grounding as& well. Because when everything happens in your company and things go& as they always do, at the end of the day you say, you know what?& I've got my family and that's what really matters. It kind of just& relaxes you quite a bit when you realize what's truly important. I& love spending time with my kids, I enjoy that.& What I've done is I actually try to work out a schedule that I can& see them off to school two days a week and then be home with them& when they get home the other two days. I'll leave at 6:45 in the& morning twice a week but I'll be home by 4:30 and then the other& two days I'll leave at 9:00 but then I'll come home very late. It's& things like that. Or just try to do once a week where I'm out later& with clients and then one breakfast a week.& So it's really everyone at both sides so it's my family& understanding what my schedule is. And that's really what it is,& they know that there's schedules and there's expectations and& everyone's good with that. And the office, they know what my& schedule is and when I'm going to be here. That seems to be really& huge in helping me to be able to balance everybody that needs quite& a bit of time from me.& But it's tough and I continue to look at different tips to do that.& I actually have "Twitter" account "CEOMOM5" where I try to put tips& around different things I do as a mom that makes me more efficient.& And then what I do as an entrepreneur and what I've learned as an& entrepreneur.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & I looked at that. I thought it was a very interesting mix of& information.
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & Probably only could come from a woman CEO.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & But I thought it was great. And I thought it pointed out what I've& thought to be true for quite some time. There really is some& integration between your family and your business. Not to say that& you're not spending time with one or the other but that everybody& knows what's going on.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & And by the way, Lucy lives that, too. That's great.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Although my babies are 29 and 25.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & They're babies as far as I'm concerned. Talia, you have done so& much and I can feel your energy. You've achieved a lot already.& What's next for you?
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & I really want to build "Eved" into a great company. As a market& leader in the event market space. This space, this industry. is a& manual, fragmented, 263 billion dollar industry that is transacting& everything off-line. I want to be someone who's part of that& leadership to bring the market on-line, and to truly create event& commerce which really doesn't necessarily happen today.& My goal is to really take "Eved" to an IPO and build it to a great& company. I think the reason for that is I feel like I can. I feel& like I do it and that's exciting for me. In my near future, I'm& really focused around Eved and learning a tremendous amount along& the journey and enjoying it as a lot of my friends who've had the& opportunity to be able to build companies from scratch and take& them to an exit.& They always tell me that it is really the journey that was most fulfilling and exciting. And the end is good but they always look& back at the journey. And while they were on the journey, they were& so focused on getting to the exit that they didn't even get a& chance to enjoy that journey. So, I'm really trying to enjoy the& journey as we go down this exciting path.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Well, best of luck to you. I mean, what a great business to be in.& And it so reinforces what you were interested in your early days on& automated business processes. It's great that you have a company& like that.
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & Super.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & Well, thank you so much for talking to us.
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & Thank you very much.
Lucy:& & & & & & & & & & & & I just wanted to remind listeners they can find this interview at& w3w3.com and ncwit.org
Larry:& & & & & & & & & & & That's a fact. We are really looking forward to it. Thanks very& much, Talia.
Talia:& & & & & & & & & & & Thank you.
[music]
&
&
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Talia MashiachInterview Summary:& Inspired by her love for business and technology, Talia Mashiach was driven to develop Eved, an online meeting and event services marketplace that is revolutionizing the event services industry. Talia has said about entrepreneurs as a group: "We are builders...Giving life to something that didn’t exist is an incredible fulfillment." This passion explains why Eved is such a success.
Release Date:& April 23, 2012Interview Subject:& Talia MashiachInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 21:57https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/talia.mp3Interview with Michelle Zatlynhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-michelle-zatlyn
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-4455"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/michelle.zatlyn_cloudflare_3-12-2012.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">An Interview with Michelle Zatlyn&nbsp;
Co-founder and Head of User Experience, CloudFlare
Date: March 12, 2012
&nbsp;
[music]
Lucy:&nbsp; Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women in Information Technology or NCWIT and our listeners know that we host series of interviews with women who have started technology companies, great entrepreneurs with wonderful wisdom and advice. With me is Larry Nelson, w3w3.com. Hi Larry.
Larry:&nbsp; I'm happy to be here, this sounds like a very interesting interview.
Lucy:&nbsp; We'll I'm excited, OK, because today we're interviewing Michelle Zatlin the co founder and head of user experience at CloudFlare and I took time to really go look at the CloudFlare site because I wasn't aware of it and I went and looked and I was so intrigued with this company and I'm sure our listeners will want to go and take a look. It's really off to a fast start. I say it's quite an accomplishment to be named the most innovative network and Internet technology company of 2011 by the Wall Street Journal. That is a huge accomplishment and congratulations on that, and I think we'll let Michelle explain a little about it about CloudFlare but I do want to say something about it.
It's an infrastructure based business that is really making performance and security and access to the kinds of features that websites need much more accessible to all types of websites and not just the high end websites that can afford some of this type of infrastructure. Websites become part of a CloudFlare community and then their web traffic is routed through this I think is a top secret members only intelligent global network and Michelle is going to tell us much more about that. Welcome, Michelle
Michelle:&nbsp; Thank you Lucy, you did a great job I don't know what else I can add after that, that was perfect. I'm glad you got all that from our website.
Lucy:&nbsp; I like that idea it's members only, you know it's my kind of thing. Why don't you give us a bit of an update about what's going on over at CloudFlare?
Michelle:&nbsp; Naturally, CloudFlare is a performance and security service, so we make websites faster and safer for websites all over the world. At first glance sometimes people are don't think that's very interesting but if you think about yourself or when you're on the Internet and you surfing through a website and you go a certain website like Google or Facebook and it loads really quickly, you stay a lot longer . Then you go to another website and maybe it takes a lot longer to load, you find yourself leaving and so for extra hundred milliseconds it takes the site to load, you lose 2% of your visitors.
That's a really big problem for website owners, it's like how can I make sure my site is fast for my visitors and you know there have been services that have been in the market place for a long time that really service enterprise members with, let's say, ten thousand websites online, the biggest websites online.
But, you know, the Internet is made up of 250 million websites around the world from blogs, to businesses, to national governments, and all. There are all these sorts of presences online and you know, when we started to build CloudFlare it was how can we make a service that can make speed and security accessible to the entire Internet? And so that's what we've done.
We launched to the public about a year and a half ago, so we've been live for 15 months, and we basically went from very little traffic through our network around the world to now we make the Internet faster, safer, for more than 430 million web surfers every single month.
Lucy:&nbsp; Wow!
Michelle:&nbsp; That's a really big number
Larry:&nbsp; [laughing] Yeah, I'll say.
Michelle:&nbsp; If we were independent website we would be the fifth largest website on the Internet. We'd be more traffic than Amazon, Wikipedia, Twitter, AOL and Bing combined. And so the scale we've grown in the last year and a half, it's really hard to grasp, and I just think it really speaks to that there are so many people running websites and there's just was not a service before that made security and performance accessible. We thought to change that at CloudFlare and we've done an OK job so far.
Lucy:&nbsp; I say more than, more than OK. It's really really interesting and I would encourage all of our listeners to go check it out. I love your tag line, give us five minutes and we'll super charge your website.
Larry:&nbsp; [laughing] Yeah.
Lucy:&nbsp; [laughing] Just five minutes! So Michelle, this is really a high tech company, you're one of the co founders, why don't you tell us a bit about how you first got into technology. What technologies are particularly interesting to you today?
Michelle:&nbsp; Well, you know, I didn't have a master plan all along to get into technology. It just kind of happened, you know I worked in different industries. I was a scientist by training. I did a chemistry degree and then I worked in finance. I really got exposed to technology with a friend that I met who was an entrepreneur and kind of opened up my eyes to technology. I'm a really curious person and I love learning, and I just really kind of fell in love with it. I kept finding these opportunities that would present themselves and I kept kind of pursuing it, so I went from science to finance to technology where I've been ever since.
So you know, for people out there that think I like the idea of technology whether it's I really love using Facebook or really love using Google or I love using different websites to generate other services or however you incorporate technology in your life. If you didn't know a lot about it before, you can still get into the industry as long as you're willing to learn. That's what happened to me.
And today I mean I feel like there are so many interesting technologies going on. I just think my own life. Twitter totally changed the way I can fume information that I get news and that I have conversations online. It's amazing how this service can create these really strong connections with people I don't even know and you can have these conversations.
And so that's for me personally, even for our business, from CloudFlare's perspective. It's been an incredible enabler to help us grow as quickly as we have over the last year and a half.
I mean Twitter has been an amazing source for us to for people find out about us, to help us solve our user's issues that may come up or answer any questions. So I think Twitter is really really interesting.
And then I think about something like Hulu which is really like an online entertainment website and it's totally changed the time that I spend on entertainment in terms of when and where I may watch TV shows or movies. Before you had to have a TV and get cable and you'd have to have you know you've got to set your TV player and DVR and you have to watch shows at certain time.
Basically with Hulu you can get all the latest shows when you want it, whenever you want based on your Internet access. But now I only like to watch shows that are on Hulu and anything else I just I don't even see because I just the way I can consume it and I can do it on my time and it doesn't have to necessarily start at 8:00 or 8:30.
If I want to start at 8:25 or whatever time, I can just do it on my time and it's been pretty amazing. And of course there is something like Drop Box which changes the way you share information whether it's with colleagues or with your family members. All these sorts of things that make these that used to be kind of hard, really easy, I mean those are just three examples but the list is very long.
Lucy:&nbsp; Well, I was intrigued with your example of Twitter and how you use it in the company for customer service because, I've been thinking more about that lately, because I have friends when they lose luggage, they complain on Twitter and they get a call back. You know, it's amazing. They don't get a call back, but they actually get a response. So I think that Twitter is an amazing customer service channel.
Michelle:&nbsp; It really is. I mean again ,business do their best to typically to try and deliver a great customer experience but sometimes you fall short and as a business you want to hear about that, tell me when I fall short so I can help fix it. And part of it is that if you're on Twitter you can just immediately send a message and get a response back. It's very powerful but it's just not when there are issues. It also enables people to talk about your service, it's like wow. In my case, I just added this website to CloudFlare and I can already feel that it's faster. And you kind of expressed that and you have people listening to what you're saying. It will resolve kind of like, I have a website and I want it to be faster, let me go find out more about this CloudFlare service. And so for customer services in terms of these one on one contacts it's been really powerful, but then also just people discovering the service is also really powerful.
Lucy:&nbsp; That's a great point.
Larry:&nbsp; It is, you know you mentioned that you didn't get into technology with a master plan behind it. How did you become an entrepreneur and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Michelle:&nbsp; I always think of this kind of like a lot of roles are either you're actors or you're advisers and for me it's like I get such a thrill. It's so self exhilarating being able to be part of the team that creates the service, makes the product. The actual making of things, I love that. I love bringing things together, sometimes you don't control the resources to make something happen. I mean that's what I strive to do. Entrepreneurship you do a lot of that. So then, a lot of times you start with nothing and you have to create all these sorts of things a long the time.
Whether you're creating teams, you're creating material, you're creating products for your customers and you're kind of learning as you go, but being part of that, that energy to bring it all to fruition&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I love it, it's very exhilarating.
Larry:&nbsp; Yeah, I love it too, yeah.
Lucy:&nbsp; Along that path of entrepreneurship, what kinds of influences did you have, you know people or event or who or what influenced you along this entrepreneurship path?
Michelle:&nbsp; Yeah, it wasn't this one defining moment, it was many defining moments over the course of my life and you know I'm only 32 so I still have a lot of life ahead of me. I remember thinking in high school and I grew up&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm Canadian, I grew up in a very small city, in the prairies, where I didn't really know what entrepreneurship meant. But I remember in high school I played on all the competitive sports teams, that really showed me the value of perseverance and hard work and being dedicated to something, and you couldn't give up, that your team depended on you and leadership. You know, all those sorts of qualities that are important in entrepreneurship.
And then I remember at university, meeting a really good friend of mine who exposed me to sometimes using emotion in decision making is really an asset and before I met her, I didn't really think about that. And you know, sometimes you do need to use your emotions when you're making decisions. And the emotional intelligence, people have different buzz words for it, it can be really powerful.
And then early on in my career when I was working in finance and then I met this entrepreneur who was a tech entrepreneur, again he doesn't describe himself as a tech entrepreneur, but he was, He has been a serial entrepreneur and everything with him was just like of course we can do that, this is how I would do it, yes, everything was yes this is we do it, and it was so liberating, I loved that and I need to be a part of that.
And that was really where it kind of opened eyes up, that you can create opportunity, you can create things, you can go out and create your own path, you don't always have to follow someone else's path, so I feel lucky to have these different role models throughout my life.
Lucy:&nbsp; I think that issue about "Yes", a culture of "Yes," we don't hear that enough, but I think it's really really important, because so many people shut conversations down before they ever get a chance to be explored?
Michelle:&nbsp; I definitely agree. Because opportunities present themselves all the time and people are their own of course enemy sometimes, and they said no I can't do it because it's too risky, or like financially, or what will my friends say. Nothing is as easy, everything has ups and downs, but if you are really passionate and seek your interest then you should go for it, and pursue these opportunities, because great things can really happen.
Lucy:&nbsp; You may be are only 32 years but you are very wise, I think you can always move from a "Yes" to a "No" ,and that's much harder than to move from a "No" to "Yes".
Larry:&nbsp; That's a fact. With all the things you have done and what are you doing right now, what is the toughest thing you have had to do in your career?
Michelle:&nbsp; There have been many, but if I have to pick one, CloudFlare is an infrastructure company. We run 14 data centers around the world, and we have very heavy technology, but I am not a technical co founder. Since I started this very technical company, which I knew about website performance and security, which I was not an expert on when I started as a non technical co founder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that was really hard, because those first three months where we were really early building the product and the most important thing that matters is coding. So we can actually get somebody to try it, see if it actually works.
And I couldn't code. You obviously try and do some research, and try and talk to people, the value I added really early on, I constantly was second guessing myself like, "Shit, I'm on the team, am I actually adding value, am I the right co founder for this team?"
And so those first three months when we started, it was just the three of us, and the other two co owners were very technical, that was really mentally challenging. I was trying to say wow like, you feel like you hold the responsibility to your other business partners to put as much in as they are, and I just feel like I was missing this core skill set, I just physically couldn't. So instead, I had to spend a lot of my time learning. I was a sponge.
Every time I heard a word I didn't understand, I looked it up. I was constantly reading, I had a whole list of definitions that I would keep track of. And now three years later I am certainly a subject matter expert, and I wasn't three years ago.
So for people who are non technical but want to build a technical company, you can, you definitely can. You need to pick your partners wisely, and you have to want to learn it, to be thirsty for information, but if you are, you can certainly play an essential part in the company.
Lucy:&nbsp; We hereby grant you a degree in computer science, [laughter] ....
Larry:&nbsp; Yeah, here you go...
Lucy:&nbsp; An honorary degree, that's awesome...
Michelle:&nbsp; Oh, thank you, thank you.
Lucy:&nbsp; That's a great story. In addition to don't be afraid to learn, get out there and create your culture of "Yes", what other advice you give a person considering starting their own company?
Michelle:&nbsp; I would say two others, there are so many but two others are I think important that sometimes are overlooked is, big problems are often easier to solve than small problems, because some of these incremental changes on technology, that's OK, but it turns out it's much harder to recruit people to come join your team, or it's harder to get funding, if your idea is just an incremental change on what already exists. But if you go after a really big audacious goal&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; like for us, ours was to rebuild the Internet, and at first when we tell people, some people laugh at us, and we said, no, no, just watch. We are on our way to doing that.
And there are other people, who are just, "That's amazing. I want to be a part of that." Google's initial mission of "I want to organize the world's information," that's a huge goal and when they started it 13 years ago people thought that was silly, but that's what they've really done.
And so don't be scared to dream big, because often the big you will find the people who are attracted to the same idea, and will search to assemble the resources to actually make it happen.
Obviously on day one you don't execute it, and you lay the plans to get there. But by dreaming big, you start to attract the resources you need.
Another one to keep in mind is, choose your partners wisely, either business partners or life partners, and so, when you start a company where you are a co founder, you really need to trust one another. You will go through lots of highs and lots of downs, and it will be very lonely, and it's challenging and there are moments when it's just like, why I am doing this?
But when you have one or two or three other people who are also doing it with you and you know they're not going anywhere you feel responsibility for them and to yourself to keep going and that's how you get through those tough times.
And same at home. You're working long hours. You're very consumed with your business or your idea or your passion and if you're coming home to somebody as a life partner you have to make sure that they're your biggest champion and biggest advocate and are rooting for your success.
When you're an entrepreneur and you have a company your family and even your friends are kind of honorary cofounders too because they're in it. It affects them whether they're there every day or not. And people who are your big supporters make a huge difference.
Larry:&nbsp; Wow, that's great advice. Now I probably know the answer to this question already but what personal characteristics do you think you have been given that have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Michelle:&nbsp; If I can do it, anyone can do it. [laughter]
Michelle:&nbsp; Again, if you feel like you want to start a company you should totally do it. And these are some of the things that I think benefited me and it's going to be different for everybody else. I'm a sponge. I love learning. I'm really curious. If I don't know about something I want to learn about it. I don't need to maybe become like the expert on the subject but I want to learn enough to have a conversation about it.
And that's really valuable when you're an entrepreneur because you end up doing a lot of different things and you might be working with a lot of different people. So that willingness to learn is really important.
And then perseverance. Again, it's changing industries, starting something in a subject matter that I wasn't an expert on. You just kind of have to keep pushing forward. And I always use the visualization just move the ball forward. If you're moving the ball forward then you're moving in the right direction.
Larry:&nbsp; Good.
Lucy:&nbsp; Along those lines when you were mentioning that your life partners are honorary cofounders, what other advice do you have around bringing balance between personal and professional lives?
Michelle:&nbsp; It's really hard. I've been working on CloudFlare for three years and it really is a high priority. Especially when you start to expand your team and hire other people who leave other jobs to come and join you in your vision you feel a huge responsibility to make it successful. But it's important to still have time for yourself. And with your life partner whether it's a husband or a boyfriend or fiancé and then your extended family and friends.
Again, you work a lot but there are some times where you just need to disconnect. And that means not checking&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; again, with Smartphone it's so easy to check what's going on all the time and that's a huge asset.
But then there are some times you should just leave it, even if it's for an hour or two hours and you go for a dinner and you don't check it at the dinner table.
That sounds so silly. But it can be really hard when there's just so much going on in the early stages of a company to just leave the Smartphone at home and go out either on a date or you're out at a dinner or whatever.
You definitely need to. For me I try to exercise a couple of times a week. And whether that's go for a run outside or go to a yoga class or play a game of tennis outside, just something because again if you're not taking care of your body and your mind it's hard to be really productive at work.
Eating healthy, sleeping a lot. Really simple things but for me it's I try and sleep because if I can't sleep I can't function then I'm useless at work and with my personal life.
And then when I am with my personal life I try and shut off my phone and I try and focus on the person I'm with.
So if that means if I can only be with them for an hour so that hour I'll make a commitment and then say, "OK, I have to go now," versus say, "OK let's hang out all afternoon," but then I'll be on my phone every other minute. That's not very fun either.
It's hard but it's really important to have those friends and family that you spend time with them and to keep up those relationships. It really is important. But I'm not going to lie, it's really hard.
[laughter]
Lucy:&nbsp; That's the truth.
Larry:&nbsp; You've got it. You've already achieved a great deal and I'm really proud for you. What's next for you?
Michelle:&nbsp; We want to rebuild the Internet. The Internet's amazing. Anybody with an idea or a voice or a business idea can put it online. I think that whole notion of the Internet is connecting us around the world is incredible. But the Internet was built 30 years ago and there were some inefficiencies built in. So we see us going forward as patching the Internet. Fixing all the inefficiencies so we can make the Internet a faster, safer, better place for everyone. So people can continue to go there and put their business online, their voices online in the easiest possible manner. So when we look ahead we just want to keep growing and fixing, patching the Internet.
Larry:&nbsp; That's excellent.
Lucy:&nbsp; Putting the thumb in the dike. [laughs]
Larry:&nbsp; There you go.
Lucy:&nbsp; That's awesome. Well thank you so much, Michelle, this has been really interesting. And good luck to you and CloudFlare. You've probably gotten a new customer here with our sites. [laughs]
Michelle:&nbsp; That would be great. We'd love to have you as a customer.
Lucy:&nbsp; Wonderful. Thank you so much. I want to remind listeners that they can find us at NCWIT.org and also at w3w3.com.
Larry:&nbsp; You bet you. We'll have it in our blog and our podcast directory too.
Lucy:&nbsp; All right. Thank you very much Michelle.
Michelle:&nbsp; Thank you. [music]
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/michelle-zatlyn">Michelle Zatlyn</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Most people can hardly find the time to eat or sleep in this fast paced world, let alone find the time to wait for a webpage to download. This time crunch that many people are under these days explains the fact that "for every extra hundred milliseconds it takes a site to load, 2% of that site's visitors will be lost," as stated by Michelle in an interview. This is exactly why she co-founded CloudFlare, a service that decreases bandwidth usage, increases site speed, and stops malicious attacks, making for a faster and safer website.</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2012-03-12T00:00:00-06:00">March 12, 2012</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Michelle Zatlyn</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">21:37</div></div></div>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 06:00:00 +0000lauren.vonroennhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-michelle-zatlyn#comments21:37Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& An Interview with Michelle Zatlyn&
Co-founder and Head of User Experience, CloudFlare
Date: March 12, 2012
&
[music]
Lucy:& Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the ...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& An Interview with Michelle Zatlyn&
Co-founder and Head of User Experience, CloudFlare
Date: March 12, 2012
&
[music]
Lucy:& Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women in Information Technology or NCWIT and our listeners know that we host series of interviews with women who have started technology companies, great entrepreneurs with wonderful wisdom and advice. With me is Larry Nelson, w3w3.com. Hi Larry.
Larry:& I'm happy to be here, this sounds like a very interesting interview.
Lucy:& We'll I'm excited, OK, because today we're interviewing Michelle Zatlin the co founder and head of user experience at CloudFlare and I took time to really go look at the CloudFlare site because I wasn't aware of it and I went and looked and I was so intrigued with this company and I'm sure our listeners will want to go and take a look. It's really off to a fast start. I say it's quite an accomplishment to be named the most innovative network and Internet technology company of 2011 by the Wall Street Journal. That is a huge accomplishment and congratulations on that, and I think we'll let Michelle explain a little about it about CloudFlare but I do want to say something about it.
It's an infrastructure based business that is really making performance and security and access to the kinds of features that websites need much more accessible to all types of websites and not just the high end websites that can afford some of this type of infrastructure. Websites become part of a CloudFlare community and then their web traffic is routed through this I think is a top secret members only intelligent global network and Michelle is going to tell us much more about that. Welcome, Michelle
Michelle:& Thank you Lucy, you did a great job I don't know what else I can add after that, that was perfect. I'm glad you got all that from our website.
Lucy:& I like that idea it's members only, you know it's my kind of thing. Why don't you give us a bit of an update about what's going on over at CloudFlare?
Michelle:& Naturally, CloudFlare is a performance and security service, so we make websites faster and safer for websites all over the world. At first glance sometimes people are don't think that's very interesting but if you think about yourself or when you're on the Internet and you surfing through a website and you go a certain website like Google or Facebook and it loads really quickly, you stay a lot longer . Then you go to another website and maybe it takes a lot longer to load, you find yourself leaving and so for extra hundred milliseconds it takes the site to load, you lose 2% of your visitors.
That's a really big problem for website owners, it's like how can I make sure my site is fast for my visitors and you know there have been services that have been in the market place for a long time that really service enterprise members with, let's say, ten thousand websites online, the biggest websites online.
But, you know, the Internet is made up of 250 million websites around the world from blogs, to businesses, to national governments, and all. There are all these sorts of presences online and you know, when we started to build CloudFlare it was how can we make a service that can make speed and security accessible to the entire Internet? And so that's what we've done.
We launched to the public about a year and a half ago, so we've been live for 15 months, and we basically went from very little traffic through our network around the world to now we make the Internet faster, safer, for more than 430 million web surfers every single month.
Lucy:& Wow!
Michelle:& That's a really big number
Larry:& [laughing] Yeah, I'll say.
Michelle:& If we were independent website we would be the fifth largest website on the Internet. We'd be more traffic than Amazon, Wikipedia, Twitter, AOL and Bing combined. And so the scale we've grown in the last year and a half, it's really hard to grasp, and I just think it really speaks to that there are so many people running websites and there's just was not a service before that made security and performance accessible. We thought to change that at CloudFlare and we've done an OK job so far.
Lucy:& I say more than, more than OK. It's really really interesting and I would encourage all of our listeners to go check it out. I love your tag line, give us five minutes and we'll super charge your website.
Larry:& [laughing] Yeah.
Lucy:& [laughing] Just five minutes! So Michelle, this is really a high tech company, you're one of the co founders, why don't you tell us a bit about how you first got into technology. What technologies are particularly interesting to you today?
Michelle:& Well, you know, I didn't have a master plan all along to get into technology. It just kind of happened, you know I worked in different industries. I was a scientist by training. I did a chemistry degree and then I worked in finance. I really got exposed to technology with a friend that I met who was an entrepreneur and kind of opened up my eyes to technology. I'm a really curious person and I love learning, and I just really kind of fell in love with it. I kept finding these opportunities that would present themselves and I kept kind of pursuing it, so I went from science to finance to technology where I've been ever since.
So you know, for people out there that think I like the idea of technology whether it's I really love using Facebook or really love using Google or I love using different websites to generate other services or however you incorporate technology in your life. If you didn't know a lot about it before, you can still get into the industry as long as you're willing to learn. That's what happened to me.
And today I mean I feel like there are so many interesting technologies going on. I just think my own life. Twitter totally changed the way I can fume information that I get news and that I have conversations online. It's amazing how this service can create these really strong connections with people I don't even know and you can have these conversations.
And so that's for me personally, even for our business, from CloudFlare's perspective. It's been an incredible enabler to help us grow as quickly as we have over the last year and a half.
I mean Twitter has been an amazing source for us to for people find out about us, to help us solve our user's issues that may come up or answer any questions. So I think Twitter is really really interesting.
And then I think about something like Hulu which is really like an online entertainment website and it's totally changed the time that I spend on entertainment in terms of when and where I may watch TV shows or movies. Before you had to have a TV and get cable and you'd have to have you know you've got to set your TV player and DVR and you have to watch shows at certain time.
Basically with Hulu you can get all the latest shows when you want it, whenever you want based on your Internet access. But now I only like to watch shows that are on Hulu and anything else I just I don't even see because I just the way I can consume it and I can do it on my time and it doesn't have to necessarily start at 8:00 or 8:30.
If I want to start at 8:25 or whatever time, I can just do it on my time and it's been pretty amazing. And of course there is something like Drop Box which changes the way you share information whether it's with colleagues or with your family members. All these sorts of things that make these that used to be kind of hard, really easy, I mean those are just three examples but the list is very long.
Lucy:& Well, I was intrigued with your example of Twitter and how you use it in the company for customer service because, I've been thinking more about that lately, because I have friends when they lose luggage, they complain on Twitter and they get a call back. You know, it's amazing. They don't get a call back, but they actually get a response. So I think that Twitter is an amazing customer service channel.
Michelle:& It really is. I mean again ,business do their best to typically to try and deliver a great customer experience but sometimes you fall short and as a business you want to hear about that, tell me when I fall short so I can help fix it. And part of it is that if you're on Twitter you can just immediately send a message and get a response back. It's very powerful but it's just not when there are issues. It also enables people to talk about your service, it's like wow. In my case, I just added this website to CloudFlare and I can already feel that it's faster. And you kind of expressed that and you have people listening to what you're saying. It will resolve kind of like, I have a website and I want it to be faster, let me go find out more about this CloudFlare service. And so for customer services in terms of these one on one contacts it's been really powerful, but then also just people discovering the service is also really powerful.
Lucy:& That's a great point.
Larry:& It is, you know you mentioned that you didn't get into technology with a master plan behind it. How did you become an entrepreneur and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Michelle:& I always think of this kind of like a lot of roles are either you're actors or you're advisers and for me it's like I get such a thrill. It's so self exhilarating being able to be part of the team that creates the service, makes the product. The actual making of things, I love that. I love bringing things together, sometimes you don't control the resources to make something happen. I mean that's what I strive to do. Entrepreneurship you do a lot of that. So then, a lot of times you start with nothing and you have to create all these sorts of things a long the time.
Whether you're creating teams, you're creating material, you're creating products for your customers and you're kind of learning as you go, but being part of that, that energy to bring it all to fruition& & & I love it, it's very exhilarating.
Larry:& Yeah, I love it too, yeah.
Lucy:& Along that path of entrepreneurship, what kinds of influences did you have, you know people or event or who or what influenced you along this entrepreneurship path?
Michelle:& Yeah, it wasn't this one defining moment, it was many defining moments over the course of my life and you know I'm only 32 so I still have a lot of life ahead of me. I remember thinking in high school and I grew up& & & I'm Canadian, I grew up in a very small city, in the prairies, where I didn't really know what entrepreneurship meant. But I remember in high school I played on all the competitive sports teams, that really showed me the value of perseverance and hard work and being dedicated to something, and you couldn't give up, that your team depended on you and leadership. You know, all those sorts of qualities that are important in entrepreneurship.
And then I remember at university, meeting a really good friend of mine who exposed me to sometimes using emotion in decision making is really an asset and before I met her, I didn't really think about that. And you know, sometimes you do need to use your emotions when you're making decisions. And the emotional intelligence, people have different buzz words for it, it can be really powerful.
And then early on in my career when I was working in finance and then I met this entrepreneur who was a tech entrepreneur, again he doesn't describe himself as a tech entrepreneur, but he was, He has been a serial entrepreneur and everything with him was just like of course we can do that, this is how I would do it, yes, everything was yes this is we do it, and it was so liberating, I loved that and I need to be a part of that.
And that was really where it kind of opened eyes up, that you can create opportunity, you can create things, you can go out and create your own path, you don't always have to follow someone else's path, so I feel lucky to have these different role models throughout my life.
Lucy:& I think that issue about "Yes", a culture of "Yes," we don't hear that enough, but I think it's really really important, because so many people shut conversations down before they ever get a chance to be explored?
Michelle:& I definitely agree. Because opportunities present themselves all the time and people are their own of course enemy sometimes, and they said no I can't do it because it's too risky, or like financially, or what will my friends say. Nothing is as easy, everything has ups and downs, but if you are really passionate and seek your interest then you should go for it, and pursue these opportunities, because great things can really happen.
Lucy:& You may be are only 32 years but you are very wise, I think you can always move from a "Yes" to a "No" ,and that's much harder than to move from a "No" to "Yes".
Larry:& That's a fact. With all the things you have done and what are you doing right now, what is the toughest thing you have had to do in your career?
Michelle:& There have been many, but if I have to pick one, CloudFlare is an infrastructure company. We run 14 data centers around the world, and we have very heavy technology, but I am not a technical co founder. Since I started this very technical company, which I knew about website performance and security, which I was not an expert on when I started as a non technical co founder& & & that was really hard, because those first three months where we were really early building the product and the most important thing that matters is coding. So we can actually get somebody to try it, see if it actually works.
And I couldn't code. You obviously try and do some research, and try and talk to people, the value I added really early on, I constantly was second guessing myself like, "Shit, I'm on the team, am I actually adding value, am I the right co founder for this team?"
And so those first three months when we started, it was just the three of us, and the other two co owners were very technical, that was really mentally challenging. I was trying to say wow like, you feel like you hold the responsibility to your other business partners to put as much in as they are, and I just feel like I was missing this core skill set, I just physically couldn't. So instead, I had to spend a lot of my time learning. I was a sponge.
Every time I heard a word I didn't understand, I looked it up. I was constantly reading, I had a whole list of definitions that I would keep track of. And now three years later I am certainly a subject matter expert, and I wasn't three years ago.
So for people who are non technical but want to build a technical company, you can, you definitely can. You need to pick your partners wisely, and you have to want to learn it, to be thirsty for information, but if you are, you can certainly play an essential part in the company.
Lucy:& We hereby grant you a degree in computer science, [laughter] ....
Larry:& Yeah, here you go...
Lucy:& An honorary degree, that's awesome...
Michelle:& Oh, thank you, thank you.
Lucy:& That's a great story. In addition to don't be afraid to learn, get out there and create your culture of "Yes", what other advice you give a person considering starting their own company?
Michelle:& I would say two others, there are so many but two others are I think important that sometimes are overlooked is, big problems are often easier to solve than small problems, because some of these incremental changes on technology, that's OK, but it turns out it's much harder to recruit people to come join your team, or it's harder to get funding, if your idea is just an incremental change on what already exists. But if you go after a really big audacious goal& & & like for us, ours was to rebuild the Internet, and at first when we tell people, some people laugh at us, and we said, no, no, just watch. We are on our way to doing that.
And there are other people, who are just, "That's amazing. I want to be a part of that." Google's initial mission of "I want to organize the world's information," that's a huge goal and when they started it 13 years ago people thought that was silly, but that's what they've really done.
And so don't be scared to dream big, because often the big you will find the people who are attracted to the same idea, and will search to assemble the resources to actually make it happen.
Obviously on day one you don't execute it, and you lay the plans to get there. But by dreaming big, you start to attract the resources you need.
Another one to keep in mind is, choose your partners wisely, either business partners or life partners, and so, when you start a company where you are a co founder, you really need to trust one another. You will go through lots of highs and lots of downs, and it will be very lonely, and it's challenging and there are moments when it's just like, why I am doing this?
But when you have one or two or three other people who are also doing it with you and you know they're not going anywhere you feel responsibility for them and to yourself to keep going and that's how you get through those tough times.
And same at home. You're working long hours. You're very consumed with your business or your idea or your passion and if you're coming home to somebody as a life partner you have to make sure that they're your biggest champion and biggest advocate and are rooting for your success.
When you're an entrepreneur and you have a company your family and even your friends are kind of honorary cofounders too because they're in it. It affects them whether they're there every day or not. And people who are your big supporters make a huge difference.
Larry:& Wow, that's great advice. Now I probably know the answer to this question already but what personal characteristics do you think you have been given that have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Michelle:& If I can do it, anyone can do it. [laughter]
Michelle:& Again, if you feel like you want to start a company you should totally do it. And these are some of the things that I think benefited me and it's going to be different for everybody else. I'm a sponge. I love learning. I'm really curious. If I don't know about something I want to learn about it. I don't need to maybe become like the expert on the subject but I want to learn enough to have a conversation about it.
And that's really valuable when you're an entrepreneur because you end up doing a lot of different things and you might be working with a lot of different people. So that willingness to learn is really important.
And then perseverance. Again, it's changing industries, starting something in a subject matter that I wasn't an expert on. You just kind of have to keep pushing forward. And I always use the visualization just move the ball forward. If you're moving the ball forward then you're moving in the right direction.
Larry:& Good.
Lucy:& Along those lines when you were mentioning that your life partners are honorary cofounders, what other advice do you have around bringing balance between personal and professional lives?
Michelle:& It's really hard. I've been working on CloudFlare for three years and it really is a high priority. Especially when you start to expand your team and hire other people who leave other jobs to come and join you in your vision you feel a huge responsibility to make it successful. But it's important to still have time for yourself. And with your life partner whether it's a husband or a boyfriend or fiancé and then your extended family and friends.
Again, you work a lot but there are some times where you just need to disconnect. And that means not checking& & & again, with Smartphone it's so easy to check what's going on all the time and that's a huge asset.
But then there are some times you should just leave it, even if it's for an hour or two hours and you go for a dinner and you don't check it at the dinner table.
That sounds so silly. But it can be really hard when there's just so much going on in the early stages of a company to just leave the Smartphone at home and go out either on a date or you're out at a dinner or whatever.
You definitely need to. For me I try to exercise a couple of times a week. And whether that's go for a run outside or go to a yoga class or play a game of tennis outside, just something because again if you're not taking care of your body and your mind it's hard to be really productive at work.
Eating healthy, sleeping a lot. Really simple things but for me it's I try and sleep because if I can't sleep I can't function then I'm useless at work and with my personal life.
And then when I am with my personal life I try and shut off my phone and I try and focus on the person I'm with.
So if that means if I can only be with them for an hour so that hour I'll make a commitment and then say, "OK, I have to go now," versus say, "OK let's hang out all afternoon," but then I'll be on my phone every other minute. That's not very fun either.
It's hard but it's really important to have those friends and family that you spend time with them and to keep up those relationships. It really is important. But I'm not going to lie, it's really hard.
[laughter]
Lucy:& That's the truth.
Larry:& You've got it. You've already achieved a great deal and I'm really proud for you. What's next for you?
Michelle:& We want to rebuild the Internet. The Internet's amazing. Anybody with an idea or a voice or a business idea can put it online. I think that whole notion of the Internet is connecting us around the world is incredible. But the Internet was built 30 years ago and there were some inefficiencies built in. So we see us going forward as patching the Internet. Fixing all the inefficiencies so we can make the Internet a faster, safer, better place for everyone. So people can continue to go there and put their business online, their voices online in the easiest possible manner. So when we look ahead we just want to keep growing and fixing, patching the Internet.
Larry:& That's excellent.
Lucy:& Putting the thumb in the dike. [laughs]
Larry:& There you go.
Lucy:& That's awesome. Well thank you so much, Michelle, this has been really interesting. And good luck to you and CloudFlare. You've probably gotten a new customer here with our sites. [laughs]
Michelle:& That would be great. We'd love to have you as a customer.
Lucy:& Wonderful. Thank you so much. I want to remind listeners that they can find us at NCWIT.org and also at w3w3.com.
Larry:& You bet you. We'll have it in our blog and our podcast directory too.
Lucy:& All right. Thank you very much Michelle.
Michelle:& Thank you. [music]
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Michelle ZatlynInterview Summary:& Most people can hardly find the time to eat or sleep in this fast paced world, let alone find the time to wait for a webpage to download. This time crunch that many people are under these days explains the fact that "for every extra hundred milliseconds it takes a site to load, 2% of that site's visitors will be lost," as stated by Michelle in an interview. This is exactly why she co-founded CloudFlare, a service that decreases bandwidth usage, increases site speed, and stops malicious attacks, making for a faster and safer website.
Release Date:& March 12, 2012Interview Subject:& Michelle ZatlynInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 21:37https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/michelle.zatlyn_cloudflare_3-12-2012.mp3Interview with Celia Francishttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-celia-francis
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-4452"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/celia.francis_weeworld_2-27-2012.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">An Interview with Celia Francis&nbsp;
CEO, WeeWorld
Date: February 27, 2012
Lucy Sanders:&nbsp; Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Woman and Information Technology, and this is one in a series of interviews that we do with women who lead or who have founded great technology companies. The purpose of which is to ask them for their very best entrepreneurial advice. With me is Larry Nelson, w3w3.com. Hello, Larry.
Larry Nelson:&nbsp; Hi, I'm happy to be here. Hello, Lucy.
Lucy:&nbsp; Well, Larry is an entrepreneur himself. So, this is all interesting, I think, to you, as well. Today we're interviewing Celia Francis, who is the CEO of WeeWorld, and she's an entrepreneur with a wealth of experience leading innovative mobile and Internet companies. WeeWorld is amazing. I encourage all of our listeners to go and look at WeeWorld. Celia joined when just seven employees from the very beginning.
If you go to their site and look, you see they have this collection of really distinctive online social games and mobile applications. Youth or anybody can really participate in things like drawing contests, or other games, even philanthropic activities online and really find their digital or virtual identity.
Interesting to our listeners as well, I think people associate gaming mostly with men, but that's not the case. Women make up more than half of all social gamers, so all gaming companies are starting to really take notice of the things that Celia has been pioneering in terms of social gaming and girls' and women's participation in gaming.
We are thrilled to have you here today, Celia. I can't wait to hear from you about entrepreneurship.
Celia Francis:&nbsp; Thank You.
Lucy:&nbsp; Why don't you give us a little bit about what's going on at WeeWorld. Wait a minute. I forgot to say something that I absolutely have to say. The people who habitate WeeWorld are WeeMees.
Larry:&nbsp; Oh, WeeMees.
Lucy:&nbsp; I love it. There are like, I don't know what, 50 million I saw, from the site.
Larry:&nbsp; Wow.
Lucy:&nbsp; What are the WeeMees doing these days?
Celia:&nbsp; Well, WeeMees have found a home on WeeWorld, which is a social network for tweens and teens. We're one of the top 10 sites for that age group in the United States. They spend their time socializing and playing games, and expressing themselves and being creative. We really are focused on an idea of personalized entertainment, with the idea of thinking about ways that you could get more people in that age group involved in design and creativity and self‑expression. So, we have quite a number of different, fun applications on the site that allow you to do that.
We've also taken the WeeMees over to the mobile world. So, very shortly, actually, we'll be able to access WeeWorld.com from any web browser on a mobile device. You currently can get the number one avatar creator on both iOS and Android. It's called the WeeMee Avatar Creator.
Lucy:&nbsp; Awesome.
Celia:&nbsp; That's very popular. Top 100 app. You can also get a number of other fun, creative apps from WeeWorld.com, if go to the app store.
Lucy:&nbsp; Well, it seems like you have a really fun job.
Larry:&nbsp; [laughs] Yeah.
Celia:&nbsp; Yeah. It is quite fun. I get to look at all kinds of cool animations all day, and talk about how to make the site more fun. So, it is good fun.
Lucy:&nbsp; Why don't you tell our listeners how you first got into technology, and in particular perhaps gaming, and maybe what you see as trends in technology, trends in gaming.
Celia:&nbsp; Well, I would say that actually my story starts out from when I was a kid. I have a mom who is actually German. As a kid, growing up as a first generation American, I used to hear her complaining as I was growing up about how all the American products were not high quality and were not beautiful, and broke, and how she wished she had more long‑lasting beautiful products from Germany. So, I felt quite a sense of nationalistic pride. [laughter]
Celia:&nbsp; I think that started me out on my journey of wanting to create great products for consumers. I spend then a lot of my educational time thinking about design as well as technology. I managed to find my way, after studying product development and a fun job at Compaq computers, doing new product development, and inventing, and in fact even patenting a variety of new products and features. Grew up from there in the valley as well as now in London doing a variety of both web and mobile products for the consumer. It's been a fun journey. It's been particularly exciting. I think what makes me really excited about being involved in innovation and creating new things is this idea of millions of people touching and playing with and enjoying the things that I've been a part of inventing or designing, or getting to the market. It's just something really exciting when I'm standing in line, and I see someone playing with one of my apps.
Larry:&nbsp; [laughs]
Celia:&nbsp; I just love that.
Lucy:&nbsp; That is awesome.
Larry:&nbsp; That is.
Celia:&nbsp; Yeah.
Lucy:&nbsp; Yeah, it seems like the whole area of social gaming is just booming. Do you want to pull out your crystal ball and tell us what's down the road there?
Celia:&nbsp; Yeah, absolutely. Well, I speak at conferences quite a lot. I spoke recently in Hamburg at a conference. I talked a little bit about the transition from web to mobile. What's interesting there is, this is the first year in history where there are more minutes spent per day on a mobile device than on a web‑connected PC or laptop or what have you. I think that that transition is happening incredibly quickly. I think also the transition from a lot of the game‑specific devices. I can see that with my own kids, how they all have DSs, and of course having a mom who makes games means that they're the kids who get everything. The Wii, and the TS, and the "this" and the "that."
But all of a sudden, this is the year where now they want my iPad and they want my iPhone, or they want to grab somebody else's smartphone, because there's just so much for them to play with on those, and there's always something new. So, that transition is happening, also incredibly quickly.
For me, I feel like I've got to work hard to make sure that...of course there are millions of people who enjoy our web browser game, you call it a girls' MMO. That we make sure it's available on a mobile device in that if you come into it using your iPad or Kindle Fire, what have you, whatever you're using, that it's going to work well, but then also that we have a good line‑up of native apps for iOS and for Android.
Android is getting lots and lots of growth, but I think, for us, it seems like the iOS devices are still a better place to monetize. But, that could change in the future, so we're working on both of those platforms.
It's also interesting, I think you talked earlier about girls verses boys. It is still a world out there where I spend a lot of time with a lot of guys who are working on games that are very appealing to guys of whatever age. But you are seeing a definite new group of people who are thinking about games for adult women or games for younger women as well. It's quite fun to be a part of that trend as well, especially as a woman and also as a mother of a young daughter, who I get to have test my various games.
Lucy:&nbsp; I bet you have all the kids in the neighborhood over at your house. [laughs]
Larry:&nbsp; Yeah.
Celia:&nbsp; Yeah, it's funny, because the other mothers accuse me, because they say, "Oh, your son." I have a son as well, and the kid who always tests every new thing that comes out. Because I'm like, "Max, tell me what you think of this." In the process, he ends up being the guy who starts the trends on what everyone is playing at school, so the mothers always blame me. [laughs]
Lucy:&nbsp; [laughs] You villain.
Larry:&nbsp; Yeah, isn't that terrible. Well, anyhow. Celia, I have to ask this question. What is it that made you become an entrepreneur, and what is about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Celia:&nbsp; Well, building a business is a little bit like building a product. I guess on some level, you're creating something from an idea. There's something very exciting about creating something out of nothing. I think, obviously, in the case of a product, it's something very specific, but in the case of a business it's all about thinking about the vision for what you want to do to impact beyond a single product. It's about creating a great team and a great culture. I think there's something much more vital about the daily struggle to survive and to grow.
It's definitely harder than being part of a company that's got years and years and years of success with a very proven "something something" that you're working on, and you're just part of keeping it going. There is the initial experience of building up that flywheel and getting the momentum is something that's a lot harder, but it's good fun.
Lucy:&nbsp; Along this path, this entrepreneurial path, who supported you? Who do you believe had some of the strongest influence? You mentioned your mother, and the beauty of German design. Who else do you think influenced you to become an entrepreneur?
Celia:&nbsp; Let's see. I think about that in a number of different ways. I guess I worked in my career for a number of excellent business leaders. I could start naming them, but I don't know if I want to embarrass them all. [laughs] All of the men, actually, who taught me a lot about what it takes to focus a team on a goal, and present ideas clearly, and mentor people and coach people, and grow a business. But, I think at the same time, most of those guys were people who were inside some of the bigger companies that I worked for. The inspiration, probably to become an entrepreneur comes maybe out the water, of living in the valley.
I lived in the valley for a number of years, and worked there on building up a couple of small businesses, a couple of start‑ups. Also, I just spent so much time in that ecosystem. There's something about how almost everyone works for a start‑up, and how you meet incredibly cool entrepreneurs every day, that you pick up a little bit of something from everyone, I think.
So that's definitely a great place to pick up the whole culture of entrepreneurship, is if you've lived there and spent time building companies there, you just pick it up by being a part of the scene.
Larry:&nbsp; With all the different things you've been doing over the years and different companies you've worked for, and now, of course, with WeeWorld, what's the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Celia:&nbsp; It's really hard to say. There's always a new challenge. I feel like that's what's quite fun actually about entrepreneurship, is that there's always something that's a challenge or that's tough that you're working. I always find it quite difficult sometimes when you're growing a company, especially a smaller company, as you move from trying something maybe that didn't work and then you try something else because you got a better idea, and that process of "pivoting" ‑‑ that's one of the jargon words that people use in entrepreneurship. But you often have a situation where you have started off with the right people but maybe find that you need a slightly different crew. I get quite attached sometimes to the people that are part of my crew, let's say, and I have had the experience of having to ask people who've been great contributors and done a great job and there's absolutely nothing wrong with what they're doing, to leave the company because they're not the right person anymore.
I think that's always, to me, one of the toughest experiences. It's something that happens, I'm sure, to lots of entrepreneurs. I think the other pieces that have been interesting for me that have been tough has been going from a stage of development from my own personal experience of having a really deep career in marketing and product innovation and development, to going from that to being essentially the finance person. It's a really different set of tools. [laughs]
From being a creative leadership type person to being a fiscally prudent "I understand every financial metric" person, and I've gone through that transition, and that was a tough transition but certainly one that I'm quite proud of.
Lucy:&nbsp; I feel your pain on that. I went from being an R&amp;D Vice President to being the CEO of a non‑profit. [laughs]
Celia:&nbsp; Yeah, it's interesting to be in a position where all of a sudden you have to really understand every detail of what drives your revenue and every detail of what drives your cost and making sure that they line up month to month.
Lucy:&nbsp; Yeah, it really is. I have to say that it certainly is rewarding when you get to the other side of building those skills, as you mentioned, something that you're quite proud of and you should be. That's like a reinvention of yourself.
Celia:&nbsp; Definitely was one of the best days of my career to be able to wake up and say, "I've built a cash‑flow positive company with 60 people in it, from nothing."
Lucy:&nbsp; Awesome.
Celia:&nbsp; Well, it definitely is a great feeling of accomplishment.
Lucy:&nbsp; If I can frame a bit of advice from that last conversation it's, certainly as a CEO or founder of company or as an early participant in a company, you're going to be asked to do a lot of different things. And reinvention of your skill set is something not to be concerned with and you just have to do it and get through it. Other advice you might have for people thinking about being an entrepreneur?
Celia:&nbsp; Well, it's interesting because before I decided to do this thing I had two offers. I had the offer to be the CEO of what was then a nascent company or to go and run an unnamed, very large, very well‑known Internet company in Europe that was already established. I got advice from someone who said, "Don't do the small thing, you're crazy. [laughs] Don't do it." I guess it's one of those things where I would say, certainly go for it if you've got the passion and you've got the enthusiasm for an idea and you feel passionate about wanting to see that become a reality in the world, definitely go for it. But just make sure you have really clear expectations for what you're getting into because it's going to be a lot of hard work. Probably way harder work than you have to do if you're working in a big company, no matter what your job.
You're going to have to be very hardy in terms of your ability to have something fail or not work out, and not take it personally and just move on and keep trying stuff until it gets to the place where it's working. If you don't feel like you can take that, because I've talked to a lot of people who have tried it and it's interesting how many guys and girls I've talked to who've been doing it who say, "God. I used to wake up in the middle of the night and feel sick to my stomach."
You have to have some good mental toughness, I think, to be able to get through the hard times because there's always going to be a problem that is often not somebody else's ultimate responsibility but is really your responsibility that you have to figure out how to solve. I don't mean to discourage anyone but I think it's one of the ultimate challenges and if it's something that you feel as a person you want to take on, then this is the way to prove yourself, really, is become an entrepreneur and build something in the world that impacts a huge number of people.
I just say go for it, but at the same time be sure that you're for it because it's harder. But it can also be some fantastic amazingly exhilarating fun when you've built something that millions of people enjoy, and you've got revenues coming in and people are saying, "Yeah. Cool. Good stuff" It's also great, great fun on that side.
Lucy:&nbsp; I like that word, "Hardy."
Larry:&nbsp; Yes.
Lucy:&nbsp; I don't believe we've heard that before but I think it's perfect.
Larry:&nbsp; It's perfect. It's right. With all the things you've told us so far, how would you characterize your personal characteristics that have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Lucy:&nbsp; She's hardy. [laughter]
Celia:&nbsp; Hardy. I think you have to be hardy, you have to be able to stay calm under pressure, you've got to have an eye for good products and what's going to work and what's not going to work. Make sure you pick things that are worth working on because you've usually got a smaller team and you've got to pick well. You've got to have an ability to attract people and get people who are far, far more talented than you involved in working for you. I've certainly felt that the people who are working on my team are in many ways far more talented in certain areas that I am, so I think that's something that you've got to have as an advantage as an entrepreneur, is the ability to attract talent and ‑ yeah. Just keeping calm.
Lucy:&nbsp; I know. Before you said that, I was thinking to myself, "She's very calm." [laughter]
Larry:&nbsp; Yes. This is the first one that we've had that's hardy and calm.
Lucy:&nbsp; I love it. You are very calming, for sure. You mentioned that you have a daughter and a son, so the next question is around your professional life and your personal life and how do you make sense of them. I hate to use the word "balance" but I'm going to use it, how do you balance them? Perhaps understanding there's no such thing as balance, but what tips do you have around having both a personal life and a professional life?
Celia:&nbsp; Well, you have to be able to compartmentalize, and that's the sort of jargon... I hate using jargon. You have to be able to say, "Are you working now, or are not working?" It's difficult because when you have something that's so fully engaging as building a company, it can be difficult to even have a moment where you're not thinking about it. And yet, if you don't find a way to actually be present when you're with your family, it's not good for you, not good for your kids, so I have to put a lot of energy into, if I'm with my kids, really being with them and really listening to them and really paying attention to them and really getting fully engaged in whatever fun things that they're doing or wanting to show you.
I think obviously it helps to have some structure around your day, to say X time to X time is time where I'm with my kids, X time to X time is time when I'm with my husband. But it's not always easy. There's days where it depends on the schedule and the school year and so on, but there's days where I'm working at home and the kids also happen to be home. Even though I have somebody who helps us full time, I still find it quite tricky if I can actually hear my kids.
[laughter]
Larry:&nbsp; There you go.
Lucy:&nbsp; And you want to know, "What are they up to?"
Celia:&nbsp; Yeah. It's much easier if you can find a way to voice that same speech thing and then really physically separate the time that you're doing one thing or the other. I think of my experience and time with my kids in some ways as also another amazing, creative project, and I try to spend quite a little bit of time brainstorming all of the things I want to do with them or discuss with them, and I've got my own separate project list with my kids. It's another great love, and anyone, obviously, who's been a parent understands that.
Lucy:&nbsp; Well, you know when they get older you're going to start worrying when you don't hear them. [laughter]
Celia:&nbsp; Yeah, I'm sure.
Larry:&nbsp; We'll have to cover that one off‑line though. Celia, here you are, the CEO of WeeWorld. You've done a great deal, had many experiences. What's up next for you?
Celia:&nbsp; I don't know. I don't know what's up next for me. There's lots of things that inspire me and there's things that I'm currently thinking of getting involved with, extra curricularly. Actually some of them are non‑profit businesses that interest me, but there's other companies that are interesting to me. I'm going to re‑rope what I'm doing right now and I see myself doing it in the foreseeable future. But I'm definitely a person who, if let loose, would probably work on five other new ideas at the same time. I just have to keep myself from it for now.
Lucy:&nbsp; It sounds like you have a lot going on.
Larry:&nbsp; That was a hardy answer.
Celia:&nbsp; There's a lot of fun stuff out there in the world.
Lucy:&nbsp; Truly, there is. Well, Celia, thank you so much. We really enjoyed talking to you and we will be hosting this on our website ncwit.org and Larry will have it hosted on w3w3.com.
Larry:&nbsp; You betcha. We'll reach over to England, too.
Lucy:&nbsp; Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Celia.
Larry:&nbsp; Thank you.
Celia:&nbsp; You're very welcome. Thank you.
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/celia-francis">Celia Francis</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Celia has a passion for product development and she has said that there is nothing more exciting and rewarding than "creating something out of nothing." Her inspiration resulted in the creation of the incredibly successful online social network WeeWorld, targeted towards teens and tweens, as an outlet for them to express themselves and bond with one another.</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2012-02-27T00:00:00-07:00">February 27, 2012</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Celia Francis</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">23:00</div></div></div>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:00:00 +0000lauren.vonroennhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-celia-francis#comments23:01Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& An Interview with Celia Francis&
CEO, WeeWorld
Date: February 27, 2012
Lucy Sanders:& Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Woman and Information ...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& An Interview with Celia Francis&
CEO, WeeWorld
Date: February 27, 2012
Lucy Sanders:& Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Woman and Information Technology, and this is one in a series of interviews that we do with women who lead or who have founded great technology companies. The purpose of which is to ask them for their very best entrepreneurial advice. With me is Larry Nelson, w3w3.com. Hello, Larry.
Larry Nelson:& Hi, I'm happy to be here. Hello, Lucy.
Lucy:& Well, Larry is an entrepreneur himself. So, this is all interesting, I think, to you, as well. Today we're interviewing Celia Francis, who is the CEO of WeeWorld, and she's an entrepreneur with a wealth of experience leading innovative mobile and Internet companies. WeeWorld is amazing. I encourage all of our listeners to go and look at WeeWorld. Celia joined when just seven employees from the very beginning.
If you go to their site and look, you see they have this collection of really distinctive online social games and mobile applications. Youth or anybody can really participate in things like drawing contests, or other games, even philanthropic activities online and really find their digital or virtual identity.
Interesting to our listeners as well, I think people associate gaming mostly with men, but that's not the case. Women make up more than half of all social gamers, so all gaming companies are starting to really take notice of the things that Celia has been pioneering in terms of social gaming and girls' and women's participation in gaming.
We are thrilled to have you here today, Celia. I can't wait to hear from you about entrepreneurship.
Celia Francis:& Thank You.
Lucy:& Why don't you give us a little bit about what's going on at WeeWorld. Wait a minute. I forgot to say something that I absolutely have to say. The people who habitate WeeWorld are WeeMees.
Larry:& Oh, WeeMees.
Lucy:& I love it. There are like, I don't know what, 50 million I saw, from the site.
Larry:& Wow.
Lucy:& What are the WeeMees doing these days?
Celia:& Well, WeeMees have found a home on WeeWorld, which is a social network for tweens and teens. We're one of the top 10 sites for that age group in the United States. They spend their time socializing and playing games, and expressing themselves and being creative. We really are focused on an idea of personalized entertainment, with the idea of thinking about ways that you could get more people in that age group involved in design and creativity and self‑expression. So, we have quite a number of different, fun applications on the site that allow you to do that.
We've also taken the WeeMees over to the mobile world. So, very shortly, actually, we'll be able to access WeeWorld.com from any web browser on a mobile device. You currently can get the number one avatar creator on both iOS and Android. It's called the WeeMee Avatar Creator.
Lucy:& Awesome.
Celia:& That's very popular. Top 100 app. You can also get a number of other fun, creative apps from WeeWorld.com, if go to the app store.
Lucy:& Well, it seems like you have a really fun job.
Larry:& [laughs] Yeah.
Celia:& Yeah. It is quite fun. I get to look at all kinds of cool animations all day, and talk about how to make the site more fun. So, it is good fun.
Lucy:& Why don't you tell our listeners how you first got into technology, and in particular perhaps gaming, and maybe what you see as trends in technology, trends in gaming.
Celia:& Well, I would say that actually my story starts out from when I was a kid. I have a mom who is actually German. As a kid, growing up as a first generation American, I used to hear her complaining as I was growing up about how all the American products were not high quality and were not beautiful, and broke, and how she wished she had more long‑lasting beautiful products from Germany. So, I felt quite a sense of nationalistic pride. [laughter]
Celia:& I think that started me out on my journey of wanting to create great products for consumers. I spend then a lot of my educational time thinking about design as well as technology. I managed to find my way, after studying product development and a fun job at Compaq computers, doing new product development, and inventing, and in fact even patenting a variety of new products and features. Grew up from there in the valley as well as now in London doing a variety of both web and mobile products for the consumer. It's been a fun journey. It's been particularly exciting. I think what makes me really excited about being involved in innovation and creating new things is this idea of millions of people touching and playing with and enjoying the things that I've been a part of inventing or designing, or getting to the market. It's just something really exciting when I'm standing in line, and I see someone playing with one of my apps.
Larry:& [laughs]
Celia:& I just love that.
Lucy:& That is awesome.
Larry:& That is.
Celia:& Yeah.
Lucy:& Yeah, it seems like the whole area of social gaming is just booming. Do you want to pull out your crystal ball and tell us what's down the road there?
Celia:& Yeah, absolutely. Well, I speak at conferences quite a lot. I spoke recently in Hamburg at a conference. I talked a little bit about the transition from web to mobile. What's interesting there is, this is the first year in history where there are more minutes spent per day on a mobile device than on a web‑connected PC or laptop or what have you. I think that that transition is happening incredibly quickly. I think also the transition from a lot of the game‑specific devices. I can see that with my own kids, how they all have DSs, and of course having a mom who makes games means that they're the kids who get everything. The Wii, and the TS, and the "this" and the "that."
But all of a sudden, this is the year where now they want my iPad and they want my iPhone, or they want to grab somebody else's smartphone, because there's just so much for them to play with on those, and there's always something new. So, that transition is happening, also incredibly quickly.
For me, I feel like I've got to work hard to make sure that...of course there are millions of people who enjoy our web browser game, you call it a girls' MMO. That we make sure it's available on a mobile device in that if you come into it using your iPad or Kindle Fire, what have you, whatever you're using, that it's going to work well, but then also that we have a good line‑up of native apps for iOS and for Android.
Android is getting lots and lots of growth, but I think, for us, it seems like the iOS devices are still a better place to monetize. But, that could change in the future, so we're working on both of those platforms.
It's also interesting, I think you talked earlier about girls verses boys. It is still a world out there where I spend a lot of time with a lot of guys who are working on games that are very appealing to guys of whatever age. But you are seeing a definite new group of people who are thinking about games for adult women or games for younger women as well. It's quite fun to be a part of that trend as well, especially as a woman and also as a mother of a young daughter, who I get to have test my various games.
Lucy:& I bet you have all the kids in the neighborhood over at your house. [laughs]
Larry:& Yeah.
Celia:& Yeah, it's funny, because the other mothers accuse me, because they say, "Oh, your son." I have a son as well, and the kid who always tests every new thing that comes out. Because I'm like, "Max, tell me what you think of this." In the process, he ends up being the guy who starts the trends on what everyone is playing at school, so the mothers always blame me. [laughs]
Lucy:& [laughs] You villain.
Larry:& Yeah, isn't that terrible. Well, anyhow. Celia, I have to ask this question. What is it that made you become an entrepreneur, and what is about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Celia:& Well, building a business is a little bit like building a product. I guess on some level, you're creating something from an idea. There's something very exciting about creating something out of nothing. I think, obviously, in the case of a product, it's something very specific, but in the case of a business it's all about thinking about the vision for what you want to do to impact beyond a single product. It's about creating a great team and a great culture. I think there's something much more vital about the daily struggle to survive and to grow.
It's definitely harder than being part of a company that's got years and years and years of success with a very proven "something something" that you're working on, and you're just part of keeping it going. There is the initial experience of building up that flywheel and getting the momentum is something that's a lot harder, but it's good fun.
Lucy:& Along this path, this entrepreneurial path, who supported you? Who do you believe had some of the strongest influence? You mentioned your mother, and the beauty of German design. Who else do you think influenced you to become an entrepreneur?
Celia:& Let's see. I think about that in a number of different ways. I guess I worked in my career for a number of excellent business leaders. I could start naming them, but I don't know if I want to embarrass them all. [laughs] All of the men, actually, who taught me a lot about what it takes to focus a team on a goal, and present ideas clearly, and mentor people and coach people, and grow a business. But, I think at the same time, most of those guys were people who were inside some of the bigger companies that I worked for. The inspiration, probably to become an entrepreneur comes maybe out the water, of living in the valley.
I lived in the valley for a number of years, and worked there on building up a couple of small businesses, a couple of start‑ups. Also, I just spent so much time in that ecosystem. There's something about how almost everyone works for a start‑up, and how you meet incredibly cool entrepreneurs every day, that you pick up a little bit of something from everyone, I think.
So that's definitely a great place to pick up the whole culture of entrepreneurship, is if you've lived there and spent time building companies there, you just pick it up by being a part of the scene.
Larry:& With all the different things you've been doing over the years and different companies you've worked for, and now, of course, with WeeWorld, what's the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career?
Celia:& It's really hard to say. There's always a new challenge. I feel like that's what's quite fun actually about entrepreneurship, is that there's always something that's a challenge or that's tough that you're working. I always find it quite difficult sometimes when you're growing a company, especially a smaller company, as you move from trying something maybe that didn't work and then you try something else because you got a better idea, and that process of "pivoting" ‑‑ that's one of the jargon words that people use in entrepreneurship. But you often have a situation where you have started off with the right people but maybe find that you need a slightly different crew. I get quite attached sometimes to the people that are part of my crew, let's say, and I have had the experience of having to ask people who've been great contributors and done a great job and there's absolutely nothing wrong with what they're doing, to leave the company because they're not the right person anymore.
I think that's always, to me, one of the toughest experiences. It's something that happens, I'm sure, to lots of entrepreneurs. I think the other pieces that have been interesting for me that have been tough has been going from a stage of development from my own personal experience of having a really deep career in marketing and product innovation and development, to going from that to being essentially the finance person. It's a really different set of tools. [laughs]
From being a creative leadership type person to being a fiscally prudent "I understand every financial metric" person, and I've gone through that transition, and that was a tough transition but certainly one that I'm quite proud of.
Lucy:& I feel your pain on that. I went from being an R&D Vice President to being the CEO of a non‑profit. [laughs]
Celia:& Yeah, it's interesting to be in a position where all of a sudden you have to really understand every detail of what drives your revenue and every detail of what drives your cost and making sure that they line up month to month.
Lucy:& Yeah, it really is. I have to say that it certainly is rewarding when you get to the other side of building those skills, as you mentioned, something that you're quite proud of and you should be. That's like a reinvention of yourself.
Celia:& Definitely was one of the best days of my career to be able to wake up and say, "I've built a cash‑flow positive company with 60 people in it, from nothing."
Lucy:& Awesome.
Celia:& Well, it definitely is a great feeling of accomplishment.
Lucy:& If I can frame a bit of advice from that last conversation it's, certainly as a CEO or founder of company or as an early participant in a company, you're going to be asked to do a lot of different things. And reinvention of your skill set is something not to be concerned with and you just have to do it and get through it. Other advice you might have for people thinking about being an entrepreneur?
Celia:& Well, it's interesting because before I decided to do this thing I had two offers. I had the offer to be the CEO of what was then a nascent company or to go and run an unnamed, very large, very well‑known Internet company in Europe that was already established. I got advice from someone who said, "Don't do the small thing, you're crazy. [laughs] Don't do it." I guess it's one of those things where I would say, certainly go for it if you've got the passion and you've got the enthusiasm for an idea and you feel passionate about wanting to see that become a reality in the world, definitely go for it. But just make sure you have really clear expectations for what you're getting into because it's going to be a lot of hard work. Probably way harder work than you have to do if you're working in a big company, no matter what your job.
You're going to have to be very hardy in terms of your ability to have something fail or not work out, and not take it personally and just move on and keep trying stuff until it gets to the place where it's working. If you don't feel like you can take that, because I've talked to a lot of people who have tried it and it's interesting how many guys and girls I've talked to who've been doing it who say, "God. I used to wake up in the middle of the night and feel sick to my stomach."
You have to have some good mental toughness, I think, to be able to get through the hard times because there's always going to be a problem that is often not somebody else's ultimate responsibility but is really your responsibility that you have to figure out how to solve. I don't mean to discourage anyone but I think it's one of the ultimate challenges and if it's something that you feel as a person you want to take on, then this is the way to prove yourself, really, is become an entrepreneur and build something in the world that impacts a huge number of people.
I just say go for it, but at the same time be sure that you're for it because it's harder. But it can also be some fantastic amazingly exhilarating fun when you've built something that millions of people enjoy, and you've got revenues coming in and people are saying, "Yeah. Cool. Good stuff" It's also great, great fun on that side.
Lucy:& I like that word, "Hardy."
Larry:& Yes.
Lucy:& I don't believe we've heard that before but I think it's perfect.
Larry:& It's perfect. It's right. With all the things you've told us so far, how would you characterize your personal characteristics that have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Lucy:& She's hardy. [laughter]
Celia:& Hardy. I think you have to be hardy, you have to be able to stay calm under pressure, you've got to have an eye for good products and what's going to work and what's not going to work. Make sure you pick things that are worth working on because you've usually got a smaller team and you've got to pick well. You've got to have an ability to attract people and get people who are far, far more talented than you involved in working for you. I've certainly felt that the people who are working on my team are in many ways far more talented in certain areas that I am, so I think that's something that you've got to have as an advantage as an entrepreneur, is the ability to attract talent and ‑ yeah. Just keeping calm.
Lucy:& I know. Before you said that, I was thinking to myself, "She's very calm." [laughter]
Larry:& Yes. This is the first one that we've had that's hardy and calm.
Lucy:& I love it. You are very calming, for sure. You mentioned that you have a daughter and a son, so the next question is around your professional life and your personal life and how do you make sense of them. I hate to use the word "balance" but I'm going to use it, how do you balance them? Perhaps understanding there's no such thing as balance, but what tips do you have around having both a personal life and a professional life?
Celia:& Well, you have to be able to compartmentalize, and that's the sort of jargon... I hate using jargon. You have to be able to say, "Are you working now, or are not working?" It's difficult because when you have something that's so fully engaging as building a company, it can be difficult to even have a moment where you're not thinking about it. And yet, if you don't find a way to actually be present when you're with your family, it's not good for you, not good for your kids, so I have to put a lot of energy into, if I'm with my kids, really being with them and really listening to them and really paying attention to them and really getting fully engaged in whatever fun things that they're doing or wanting to show you.
I think obviously it helps to have some structure around your day, to say X time to X time is time where I'm with my kids, X time to X time is time when I'm with my husband. But it's not always easy. There's days where it depends on the schedule and the school year and so on, but there's days where I'm working at home and the kids also happen to be home. Even though I have somebody who helps us full time, I still find it quite tricky if I can actually hear my kids.
[laughter]
Larry:& There you go.
Lucy:& And you want to know, "What are they up to?"
Celia:& Yeah. It's much easier if you can find a way to voice that same speech thing and then really physically separate the time that you're doing one thing or the other. I think of my experience and time with my kids in some ways as also another amazing, creative project, and I try to spend quite a little bit of time brainstorming all of the things I want to do with them or discuss with them, and I've got my own separate project list with my kids. It's another great love, and anyone, obviously, who's been a parent understands that.
Lucy:& Well, you know when they get older you're going to start worrying when you don't hear them. [laughter]
Celia:& Yeah, I'm sure.
Larry:& We'll have to cover that one off‑line though. Celia, here you are, the CEO of WeeWorld. You've done a great deal, had many experiences. What's up next for you?
Celia:& I don't know. I don't know what's up next for me. There's lots of things that inspire me and there's things that I'm currently thinking of getting involved with, extra curricularly. Actually some of them are non‑profit businesses that interest me, but there's other companies that are interesting to me. I'm going to re‑rope what I'm doing right now and I see myself doing it in the foreseeable future. But I'm definitely a person who, if let loose, would probably work on five other new ideas at the same time. I just have to keep myself from it for now.
Lucy:& It sounds like you have a lot going on.
Larry:& That was a hardy answer.
Celia:& There's a lot of fun stuff out there in the world.
Lucy:& Truly, there is. Well, Celia, thank you so much. We really enjoyed talking to you and we will be hosting this on our website ncwit.org and Larry will have it hosted on w3w3.com.
Larry:& You betcha. We'll reach over to England, too.
Lucy:& Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Celia.
Larry:& Thank you.
Celia:& You're very welcome. Thank you.
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Celia FrancisInterview Summary:& Celia has a passion for product development and she has said that there is nothing more exciting and rewarding than "creating something out of nothing." Her inspiration resulted in the creation of the incredibly successful online social network WeeWorld, targeted towards teens and tweens, as an outlet for them to express themselves and bond with one another.
Release Date:& February 27, 2012Interview Subject:& Celia FrancisInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 23:00https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/celia.francis_weeworld_2-27-2012.mp3Interview with Sandy Jenhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-sandy-jen
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-2504"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/sandy.jen_cto-meebo_1-16-2012.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">An Interview with Sandy Jen Co-founder and CTO, Meebo
Date: January 16, 2012 [Intro music]
Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of the National Center for Women and Information Technology, or NCWIT, and with me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Larry, hi.
Larry Nelson: Hi. I'm so happy to be here. This is a great series. It has a tremendous impact on young women, parents, bosses, and we're very excited.
Lucy: We're not going to disappoint listeners. We're going to have a great interview today with Sandy Jen, who's the co-founder and CTO, that's chief technology officer of Meebo. Meebo is a great company and we have interviewed somebody from there before, Eileen Wherry. We had just a great time talking with her so we needed to go back around and catch up with Sandy. Here's this great tag line that I've heard used with Meebo. It's "together is better." That's a great tag line because Meebo integrates all social networks and communication channels into a very simple single solution so that it makes all those different channels a whole lot easier to use. I was poking around on Tech Crunch, Larry, and found out that-- probably these numbers have gotten even higher since I did it in November-- you have 250 million Unique's a month. Wow! That's astonishing growth. Here's some other stats: now delivering 5.4 billion page views a month, up from 2.8 billion a year ago.
Larry: That's a "B"?
Lucy: A "B".
Larry: Wow!
Sandy Jen: That's a "B". [laughs]
Lucy: That's a "B". Sandy leads engineering as the CTO, of course, and builds the team responsible for all these great products and solutions, organizing the technology and the innovation and thinking very creatively about how you scale Meebo's architecture. Welcome Sandy, we're really happy to have you here.
Sandy: Really great to be here and thank you for calling.
Lucy: So why don't you tell us a little bit, other than those astonishing growth statistics, what else is going on at Meebo?
Sandy: Let's see. We launched in 2005 so we're about six years old, which I guess is a pretty long time for a startup. We still consider ourselves a startup even though we're roughly 200 people now. We started with three, so it's also been a big growth in terms of just the number of heads we have on staff. Our goal, from day one we started out as a web instant messaging client and we wanted to connect people with other people that were important to them. Back in 2005 a really cool way to do that was chatting and instant messaging. We think as the web got a lot more big and a lot more complex and people are a lot more savvy now on how they use the web. Their expectations are a lot higher on how they connect with people and generally just consume content. So now what we're doing at Meebo, six years later, is connecting people with other people, but also people with content that's important to them. It's been an interesting journey for us. We started out as a web IM client, like I said, and now we're this distributed social bar. You mentioned our growth, which we're really proud of. The growth is now primarily due to this bar that I mentioned. We're on over 8,000 sites around the Internet that you see today and we reach about half the US Internet population, which is pretty cool as well. It's a really cool technology platform to play with to bring great consumer products and experiences to everybody that can touch the bar and see the bar. That goes beyond IM. So, we're experimenting with a bunch of ideas and how to really create a cool user experience using our distribution. Just to give you guys a little bit of a teaser we expect them to come out relatively quickly, in the next month or so. So keep an eye out.
Larry: Oh good. We will.
Lucy: Early in 2012. We love asking questions about entrepreneurship, as everybody who listens to these now, and we're about ready to get started with that. But I wanted to read a quote from Sandy from a recent entrepreneurship panel, because I think it's going to set up how great an interview this is going to be. "You may not feel as if you are qualified or confident enough. The biggest insight in this entrepreneurial journey of mine was when I realized that someone I knew, who was not super smart,"- I love this- "who failed the same tests I did had started a company, and I realized I could do it too." I loved it. I just love that quote, so I had to start with that. So, off we go. Sandy, we love talking to technologists, and especially CTOs. Share with us how you first got into technology and you've already told us a bit about cool technologies, but any other crystal ball you've got, technologies, on the horizon? We'd love to hear them.
Sandy: I was lucky enough to grow up in a household where both my parents were engineers. It wasn't like a foreign thing growing up to be surrounded by engineering concepts like computers and physics and things like that. Getting started, I started pretty early in high school. Again, I was lucky enough to go to a high school that had actually four years of computer science classes offered.
Lucy: That is amazing.
Sandy: Yeah. [laughs] I started programming as a freshman in high school. Obviously, it wasn't the only thing that I did. I really enjoyed art as well, and English and a bunch of other topics. After I finished high school I was lucky enough to get into Stanford, they offered a couple of choices in Integral Computer Science classes. The first of which was if you've programmed before you could take an accelerated course and squish two quarters into one. Or you could take the two- quarter class that that would introduce you to the concept. So, I was like, "Well, I've done the programming, I'll go and take the accelerated course." Little did I know that those you take that course have the reputation of just doing computer science throughout their career. So, I took that course and here we are today. [laughter]
Lucy: Here you are.
Sandy: Exactly. I think that he quote that you mentioned was a really, really important one for me, where, going from a suburb high school to a big university like Stanford, one of the thing that's really eye-opening is that there are a lot of smart people in this world, and when you first meet a lot of these smart people, you're like wow, I don't know if I'm really that smart. When you go through your classes, and you may have gotten straight As in high school, but you may have gotten some Bs and Cs in college, it's a little bit of a hmm, like how good am I, right? I think for a lot of women in particular, that question tends to be maybe not explicit, but it does run strongly in the actions and the behaviors that they exude. For me, the biggest light bulb moment, like you said, was seeing someone who I thought, quote, was "as dumb" as I was do something extraordinary, and that was very inspiring. In my logical computer science brain, I was like, there's not a lot of difference between me and him, what made him do that? I think that was the biggest insight for me. So fast-forward six years now, when I talk to young entrepreneurs, a lot of them are like, "Oh, I have this great idea, I want to do this thing, I need to get the time, I need to do the business plan, I need to get the technology in place," and they keep putting up these road blocks. These are self-imposed road blocks. The difference today in terms of technology is that it's so easy to get started, like you have all these Cloud services that are really free and really cheap, you have all these resources available. You could get something launched, a mobile app, in like a week. That is extraordinarily powerful for a young, very ambitious entrepreneur who has an idea. In terms of crystal ball stuff, it's really hard for me to say, but the web is where everything is going, and whether that be mobile web apps or, websites that you get transferred to mobile, like all the things that people are doing these days, there's no concept of sort of a download or an application or even something that you sort of have to buy and pay for, there's all these services and online Cloud things. All those things are very, very interesting, and they're very powerful, and they're so easy to set up that I feel like that's where you'll see a lot of young people innovate, because it's so easy. That's really exciting for me.
Larry: Boy.
Lucy: It is really exciting. I can remember, I asked for my first promotion at work when somebody who I thought was a stupid... [laughter]
Lucy: I really appreciate that.
Larry: Yeah. Well, there you have parents that are engineers going through high school and enjoying a lot of different topics; why are you an entrepreneur? Maybe the second part is, what about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Sandy: I want to go back a little bit. I went to an entrepreneurial organization at Yale called YEI, and I spoke with some of their students there, and one of them said, the interesting thing that I've found was that a lot of young people, especially young women, do entrepreneurial-type things, but they don't self-identify as an entrepreneur. They do things like, "Oh, I started a social club," or, "I started this meetup," or, "I gathered all these really cool people and they got to talk to each other, and now we do this on a regular basis," or, " Hey, I've started this event-planning thing that gets like all these really young people together." Those types of actions are actually very entrepreneurial. I would identify them as entrepreneurs, but they don't, and so they don't seek out help to take the next step. For me, I fell into entrepreneurship. I had the opportunity and I was like, "Wow. This is a really big risk." I'm generally more risk averse, and then I'm thinking, "Why the hell not?" Putting roadblocks in front of yourself like, "Oh. I'm not smart enough." "Oh, I need to do this." Or, "Oh. I didn't go to business school." Or, "Oh. I didn't do X, Y, Z." There's always excuses. I think that once I actually identified myself as an entrepreneur, and I took off with that, the most important thing that helped make me to continue to tick is that self confidence. It's the ability to think, "Oh, wow. I can really do this, and I can learn from this, and I can be respected for this, and the fact that I did this." Even if I have a team around me, the fact that you put yourself out there and were willing to take the risk to do that is amazing. Even today, six years later after we launched, I'm sometimes like, "Wow. Holy crap. I'm an entrepreneur." Or, "Oh my God. I'm the CTO." Because when you take a step back, it's like, "Wow. I was able to take a risk." Or, "I was able to put myself out there more than I would have before, and it really paid off." Even if the payoff is in monetary terms or the success of the company, the fact I overcame this self doubt, and, "Oh my God. I'm so stupid," or, "Oh. I'm not good enough." That in itself is very rewarding on a day to day basis. I think that's the thing that really makes me tick.
Lucy: That's pretty interesting. The things we tell ourselves, right? I know. We had a person who we interviewed a couple of months ago, who said, her piece of advice was, I hope I get this right, "Never compare yourself on the inside to what you see on the outside of others." It's the way you feel. It's all about that same thing. Along the way, your career path so far, you've obviously had people influence you. Maybe your parents, the people at your high school. I'm still blown away by four years of computer science, by the way. Who are your role models now? The types of people who have influenced you. Any thoughts on that?
Sandy: I was asked the same question at a panel a few weeks ago. My first answer was there's probably two types of people. The first, obviously, would be my parents. My mom was actually an engineer. A funny story, she actually helped me with my computer science classes in college when I had a bug. That's cool. People were like, "Wow. Your mom did that?" I'm like, "Yeah. Totally." Then, facetiously, but I really did mean it were, I called them my stupid goofy friends. Those friends are the one that I mentioned who, also sucked at physics like I did, and also failed that particular test like I did, and had trouble with that problem just like I did. They started companies, and they did it at a time when there was no money going around and the VCs were very wary of startups, given what had happened in the boom. They got funded, and they started a company. They worked really hard, and persevered, and were able to create a company that got somewhere. Them telling me that of course you can do it, like why wouldn't you do that? Or, hey, when I was feeling depressed or really unhappy with my job, because I was thinking, I'm coming out of school and I'm really happy about what I did in school, but now I'm in the working world, and I don't know what I want to do, they're like, "You should just pick something that you're passionate about and actually just go for it." Like there's no reason why you can't. Inspiration comes in many forms, and I think for me personally, the strongest was just the support to say yes, you can do it, and belief in me even when I didn't believe in myself. I think that's extremely important, I think, for anybody to have that kind of support network, because you can be successful and you can be rich, have all sorts of accomplishments in the world, but it's really lonely to celebrate them by yourself. Like to have someone else or a team or friends to celebrate with, and had said, "Oh," you know, "I believed in you from day one, and look what happened," is so much more valuable to me than anything else, so...
Larry: All right, now, with all these wonderful things that you've been through, what is the toughest thing that you've experienced in your career?
Sandy: Oh, man. [laughs] I probably would say hiring. When you start a company and you get all this money, people actually expect you to do something with it. [laughter]
Larry: Yeah.
Lucy: That's true.
Sandy: You can't just have the money in the bank and be like oh, I got funded, and now it's just sitting there all nice and pretty. You have to build a team, and you're like OK, I'm 20, when I started, maybe I was like, you know, 23, and, you know, you're a 23-year-old who was a sophomore engineer for two and a half years, you've never managed anybody, you've never hired anybody, you've barely interviewed anybody at your old company, and now you have to build a top-notch tech team to support a product that you kind of hobbled together in your spare time and got funded for, and now they're giving you millions of dollars to go and make it big. You're like holy crap, what am I supposed to do with this? The toughest thing was actually figuring out how to hire, how to evaluate people, how to build a culture for the first 12 people in the company, and also getting over the fact that you're interviewing people who have been in the industry for 20 more years than you have, and they're expected to report to you, because you're the founder and you're the boss. So getting over that was huge and very challenging. I think, as you move more towards your career, like it's six years later at Meebo and I've interviewed hundreds of people now, sometimes there's still that little part of you that when you meet someone with a lot more industry experience, you're like, how do I really make you respect me? Because I may not come off as being like the big hotshot, you know, CTO kind of person. That's probably been the toughest, because evaluating other people is actually really, really hard.
Lucy: Yeah. That was a very interesting answer. I don't believe we've gotten that answer to this question before. But I think it's very interesting. A plug for an organization we work, Women 2.0...writing a book on certain things like this. Like, hiring or interviewing. I chose the question, "How do you let somebody go?"
Larry: Yeah.
Lucy: I figured no one would answer that one. [laughter]
Lucy: I figured nobody would. But I did it, I wrote it. If you were sitting here giving advice to a young person about entrepreneurship, in addition to some of the advice that we've filtered out of this interview so far around, "Don't make artificial excuses, have confidence in yourself," what are the kinds of things you would say to them?
Sandy: One is, to be confident in your own idea. A lot of people have this notion that they have this really cool idea and they're like, "It's really neat, I should really act on it." Then they start to protect it. They baby it, they hide it, they keep it secret, they don't tell anybody. They hide it in the closet and they try to work on it on their own. It seems counter-intuitive but one piece of advice I would give people with ideas, with wanting to start something, is to share the idea as much as you can. Get it out there and get feedback because if you work in a vacuum you're not going to understand how to adapt quickly. I guarantee you, and I've said this many, many times to people, if you have an idea, idea's are never formed in a vacuum, and 20 other people have the same idea and they're already working on it. So, everybody has a different take on an idea, they have a different slant, they have a different perspective, they work on it in a very different way. But the more the idea is out there and the more you can iterate on it the better the idea gets. The more attuned to your audience it can be, whether that be, like I said, an ice-cream store, to a consumer Internet web company, having people give you honest feedback is so critical to creating a really big part. When I tell this to people, they're like, "Really?" I'm like, "Yes. Absolutely. Don't hide the idea." It seems really weird but it's a really good piece of advice that we got early on that helped immensely.
Lucy: That's interesting too. Even if you have a good idea and you hide it. You get out there and as soon as you put it out there someone with more money, they're going to do it too, they're going to copy you.
Sandy: People are always afraid of people copying them. I'm like, "It's OK." One of the early lessons we had was, if you make five or six changes to your UI, let's say I change the button shape or I move the position of a particular radio button or something like that, there were reasons why I did that. The reasons were for a number of user issues or feedback or A/B tests that we did. So, we moved the button over there. But if someone else went straight ahead and copied those pixels they don't understand why we moved that button. So, they don't get the learnings of why we did that. Without the deeper understandings of the decisions that you make a straight copy can work for a certain period of time but it won't work ultimately. That's the counterargument I give to people who say, "Oh, people will copy me." I say, "Well, generally it's the shallow copy, it's not really deep copy."
Larry : Based on all the other things you've said during this interview it should be obvious, but from your perspective what characteristics do you think have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Sandy: Hardworking. You can have as much influence and networking and friends in high places as you can, but if you don't work hard you can't really get there. Also, I didn't have this in the beginning but I think it developed a lot, would be self-confidence, but a sense of humbleness, in a way. Being OK with your decisions and not regretting the decision that you make. But at the same time being open to learning from mistakes, learning from other people who have different opinions and put that into your own system of beliefs. But being able to take a step back and evaluate that from a very non-judgmental perspective is important as well. It's a really long answer but, basically, always listening and asking the right questions, sometimes can be much more powerful than knowing all the answers. Having that perspective as you go from venture to venture or interview to interview is really important. A lot of people that I meet, who I have issues with just working with, like, some entrepreneurs can come off really cocky. I think that's to their detriment, because they may be really smart and really brilliant but if they don't take a step back and think about, "How am I perceived by others? How can I better myself to make other people want to work with me and share knowledge?" I think they're missing that. For me, I've really, really focused on doing that well. That goes into not being just an entrepreneur but as a good manager, as a good leader of the company. I don't have to have all the answers. But as long as I can ask the right questions and get the right issues surfaced, that is extremely effective.
Lucy: Really important. This thing around listening and sometimes I say it's around, even, intuitive listening, because when you're listening really well you actually hear things that people didn't say but actually imply.
Larry: Yeah. Between the lines.
Lucy: Between the lines. There's a lot of value and there's a lot of mischief between the lines. You mentioned, Sandy, about hardworking. Of course, then we all have things we like to do outside of work, I'll put quotes on that. You mentioned your friends and people to celebrate things with. How do you strike that balance there?
Sandy: It's really important. In the beginning of Meebo, I was like, "Work, work, work. Work is awesome, Meebo is great." All I would do is work, work, work. Then at a certain point you're like, "Wow, I'm really tired." [laughter]
Sandy: The tiredness may not actually come from the lack of enthusiasm or lack of passion for the idea, but you're just physically and mentally very, very tired. If you're really tired you can't be productive. One of the things that I focus really hard in Meebo is work-life balance. I rock-climb, I do yoga, I play Ultimate Frisbee, I run, and those to me are just as important as the work I do at Meebo. So, I have this thing, you work hard play hard, and they're equally important. Because if you don't play hard and balance the "work hard" part you're going to tether one way or the other. Burning out is painful. You see it in an engineer, you see it in people who work all the time. You get cranky, you get demotivated and this spiral that keeps going and feeding on itself. You want the spiral to go the other way. The happier you are and the more balanced you are, the happier, more productive you can be and the more imaginative you can be with the work that you do and you can get more ideas that way. Again, super, super important. I will kick my employees out sometimes from work early and force them on vacation if I have to to get them to have more of that balance.
Lucy: It is really important. We heard of some new research, the listeners might find interesting, that there is research that shows, especially in this space, in tech space, and I'm sure it's true in any creative space, that you really can't work longer than eight hours on something without starting to make the crossover mistakes that make it unproductive.
Sandy: I can do that. [laughs]
Lucy: Yeah. Which is pretty interesting.
Larry: Sandy, I love that thought. Yes. Sandy, with all the things you've done, the billions of page views and millions of users and everything, you've already achieved a great deal. What is next for you?
Sandy: That's a good question. My personal goal for Meebo has always been, I should be able to go to any city in the world and say the word "Meebo" and people's eyes should light up and they should know exactly what I'm talking about. People are doing that with Facebook a little but they don't do that with Meebo and I'd love for that to happen. Personally, that's self-interesting too. I started out as a software engineer and then you learn how to manage, you learn how to be a leader. Now, as a CTO my role is divided now where I do a lot of internal management. So, team building and hiring and personal development of the people that work for me. But also, the external part of that. So, reaching out to other folks, going to industry events, speaking on panels. As someone who does both, you can't really do both really, really well if you're pulled in two directions. So, I've been learning to really love the external part. This interview, for example, is really fun for me. I really like going to meet young people outside and encouraging them to start their own ventures. I really like mentoring young people, I like going to these entrepreneurial conferences and inspiring young folks. I really love that part and so I'd love to see more of that in my career and my personal development. Obviously, my commitments and my heart is at Meebo. So, trying to find a good balance there is something that I'm trying to do right now, it's a personal goal of mine. To be honest, I don't know what I'll be doing in five or six years. Hopefully, Meebo will be wildly successful and we'll be looking at trillions of page views instead of billions. But once you start your own venture it's hard to go back to work with somebody else. So, either starting something else or seeing where Meebo goes, I don't know. I really don't know.
Larry: Well, we're going to track you and follow you.
Lucy: Thank you very much for your passion around inspiring more young people to pursue entrepreneurship, technical endeavors, young women to pursue computer science. You're an awesome role model. That's exactly what NCWIT is really trying to do. It's so important. So, thank you for that.
Sandy: No worries. This is really fun.
Lucy: OK. Well, great. We enjoyed talking to you. I want to remind listeners that they can find this and other interviews at w3w3.com and ncwit.org See you around, Sandy.
Sandy: OK.
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/sandy-jen">Sandy Jen</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Meebo’s Co-founder and CTO, Sandy Jen recently discussed gaining the self-assurance to start a new company: “You may not feel as if you are qualified or confident enough…The biggest insight in this entrepreneurial journey of mine was when I realized that someone I knew who was not super smart, who failed same tests I did, had started a company, I realized I could do that too.”</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2012-01-16T00:00:00-07:00">January 16, 2012</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Sandy Jen</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">24:55</div></div></div>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 07:00:00 +0000lauren.vonroennhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-sandy-jen#comments24:56Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& An Interview with Sandy Jen Co-founder and CTO, Meebo
Date: January 16, 2012 [Intro music]
Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of the National Center for Women and Information Techn...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& An Interview with Sandy Jen Co-founder and CTO, Meebo
Date: January 16, 2012 [Intro music]
Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of the National Center for Women and Information Technology, or NCWIT, and with me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Larry, hi.
Larry Nelson: Hi. I'm so happy to be here. This is a great series. It has a tremendous impact on young women, parents, bosses, and we're very excited.
Lucy: We're not going to disappoint listeners. We're going to have a great interview today with Sandy Jen, who's the co-founder and CTO, that's chief technology officer of Meebo. Meebo is a great company and we have interviewed somebody from there before, Eileen Wherry. We had just a great time talking with her so we needed to go back around and catch up with Sandy. Here's this great tag line that I've heard used with Meebo. It's "together is better." That's a great tag line because Meebo integrates all social networks and communication channels into a very simple single solution so that it makes all those different channels a whole lot easier to use. I was poking around on Tech Crunch, Larry, and found out that-- probably these numbers have gotten even higher since I did it in November-- you have 250 million Unique's a month. Wow! That's astonishing growth. Here's some other stats: now delivering 5.4 billion page views a month, up from 2.8 billion a year ago.
Larry: That's a "B"?
Lucy: A "B".
Larry: Wow!
Sandy Jen: That's a "B". [laughs]
Lucy: That's a "B". Sandy leads engineering as the CTO, of course, and builds the team responsible for all these great products and solutions, organizing the technology and the innovation and thinking very creatively about how you scale Meebo's architecture. Welcome Sandy, we're really happy to have you here.
Sandy: Really great to be here and thank you for calling.
Lucy: So why don't you tell us a little bit, other than those astonishing growth statistics, what else is going on at Meebo?
Sandy: Let's see. We launched in 2005 so we're about six years old, which I guess is a pretty long time for a startup. We still consider ourselves a startup even though we're roughly 200 people now. We started with three, so it's also been a big growth in terms of just the number of heads we have on staff. Our goal, from day one we started out as a web instant messaging client and we wanted to connect people with other people that were important to them. Back in 2005 a really cool way to do that was chatting and instant messaging. We think as the web got a lot more big and a lot more complex and people are a lot more savvy now on how they use the web. Their expectations are a lot higher on how they connect with people and generally just consume content. So now what we're doing at Meebo, six years later, is connecting people with other people, but also people with content that's important to them. It's been an interesting journey for us. We started out as a web IM client, like I said, and now we're this distributed social bar. You mentioned our growth, which we're really proud of. The growth is now primarily due to this bar that I mentioned. We're on over 8,000 sites around the Internet that you see today and we reach about half the US Internet population, which is pretty cool as well. It's a really cool technology platform to play with to bring great consumer products and experiences to everybody that can touch the bar and see the bar. That goes beyond IM. So, we're experimenting with a bunch of ideas and how to really create a cool user experience using our distribution. Just to give you guys a little bit of a teaser we expect them to come out relatively quickly, in the next month or so. So keep an eye out.
Larry: Oh good. We will.
Lucy: Early in 2012. We love asking questions about entrepreneurship, as everybody who listens to these now, and we're about ready to get started with that. But I wanted to read a quote from Sandy from a recent entrepreneurship panel, because I think it's going to set up how great an interview this is going to be. "You may not feel as if you are qualified or confident enough. The biggest insight in this entrepreneurial journey of mine was when I realized that someone I knew, who was not super smart,"- I love this- "who failed the same tests I did had started a company, and I realized I could do it too." I loved it. I just love that quote, so I had to start with that. So, off we go. Sandy, we love talking to technologists, and especially CTOs. Share with us how you first got into technology and you've already told us a bit about cool technologies, but any other crystal ball you've got, technologies, on the horizon? We'd love to hear them.
Sandy: I was lucky enough to grow up in a household where both my parents were engineers. It wasn't like a foreign thing growing up to be surrounded by engineering concepts like computers and physics and things like that. Getting started, I started pretty early in high school. Again, I was lucky enough to go to a high school that had actually four years of computer science classes offered.
Lucy: That is amazing.
Sandy: Yeah. [laughs] I started programming as a freshman in high school. Obviously, it wasn't the only thing that I did. I really enjoyed art as well, and English and a bunch of other topics. After I finished high school I was lucky enough to get into Stanford, they offered a couple of choices in Integral Computer Science classes. The first of which was if you've programmed before you could take an accelerated course and squish two quarters into one. Or you could take the two- quarter class that that would introduce you to the concept. So, I was like, "Well, I've done the programming, I'll go and take the accelerated course." Little did I know that those you take that course have the reputation of just doing computer science throughout their career. So, I took that course and here we are today. [laughter]
Lucy: Here you are.
Sandy: Exactly. I think that he quote that you mentioned was a really, really important one for me, where, going from a suburb high school to a big university like Stanford, one of the thing that's really eye-opening is that there are a lot of smart people in this world, and when you first meet a lot of these smart people, you're like wow, I don't know if I'm really that smart. When you go through your classes, and you may have gotten straight As in high school, but you may have gotten some Bs and Cs in college, it's a little bit of a hmm, like how good am I, right? I think for a lot of women in particular, that question tends to be maybe not explicit, but it does run strongly in the actions and the behaviors that they exude. For me, the biggest light bulb moment, like you said, was seeing someone who I thought, quote, was "as dumb" as I was do something extraordinary, and that was very inspiring. In my logical computer science brain, I was like, there's not a lot of difference between me and him, what made him do that? I think that was the biggest insight for me. So fast-forward six years now, when I talk to young entrepreneurs, a lot of them are like, "Oh, I have this great idea, I want to do this thing, I need to get the time, I need to do the business plan, I need to get the technology in place," and they keep putting up these road blocks. These are self-imposed road blocks. The difference today in terms of technology is that it's so easy to get started, like you have all these Cloud services that are really free and really cheap, you have all these resources available. You could get something launched, a mobile app, in like a week. That is extraordinarily powerful for a young, very ambitious entrepreneur who has an idea. In terms of crystal ball stuff, it's really hard for me to say, but the web is where everything is going, and whether that be mobile web apps or, websites that you get transferred to mobile, like all the things that people are doing these days, there's no concept of sort of a download or an application or even something that you sort of have to buy and pay for, there's all these services and online Cloud things. All those things are very, very interesting, and they're very powerful, and they're so easy to set up that I feel like that's where you'll see a lot of young people innovate, because it's so easy. That's really exciting for me.
Larry: Boy.
Lucy: It is really exciting. I can remember, I asked for my first promotion at work when somebody who I thought was a stupid... [laughter]
Lucy: I really appreciate that.
Larry: Yeah. Well, there you have parents that are engineers going through high school and enjoying a lot of different topics; why are you an entrepreneur? Maybe the second part is, what about entrepreneurship that makes you tick?
Sandy: I want to go back a little bit. I went to an entrepreneurial organization at Yale called YEI, and I spoke with some of their students there, and one of them said, the interesting thing that I've found was that a lot of young people, especially young women, do entrepreneurial-type things, but they don't self-identify as an entrepreneur. They do things like, "Oh, I started a social club," or, "I started this meetup," or, "I gathered all these really cool people and they got to talk to each other, and now we do this on a regular basis," or, " Hey, I've started this event-planning thing that gets like all these really young people together." Those types of actions are actually very entrepreneurial. I would identify them as entrepreneurs, but they don't, and so they don't seek out help to take the next step. For me, I fell into entrepreneurship. I had the opportunity and I was like, "Wow. This is a really big risk." I'm generally more risk averse, and then I'm thinking, "Why the hell not?" Putting roadblocks in front of yourself like, "Oh. I'm not smart enough." "Oh, I need to do this." Or, "Oh. I didn't go to business school." Or, "Oh. I didn't do X, Y, Z." There's always excuses. I think that once I actually identified myself as an entrepreneur, and I took off with that, the most important thing that helped make me to continue to tick is that self confidence. It's the ability to think, "Oh, wow. I can really do this, and I can learn from this, and I can be respected for this, and the fact that I did this." Even if I have a team around me, the fact that you put yourself out there and were willing to take the risk to do that is amazing. Even today, six years later after we launched, I'm sometimes like, "Wow. Holy crap. I'm an entrepreneur." Or, "Oh my God. I'm the CTO." Because when you take a step back, it's like, "Wow. I was able to take a risk." Or, "I was able to put myself out there more than I would have before, and it really paid off." Even if the payoff is in monetary terms or the success of the company, the fact I overcame this self doubt, and, "Oh my God. I'm so stupid," or, "Oh. I'm not good enough." That in itself is very rewarding on a day to day basis. I think that's the thing that really makes me tick.
Lucy: That's pretty interesting. The things we tell ourselves, right? I know. We had a person who we interviewed a couple of months ago, who said, her piece of advice was, I hope I get this right, "Never compare yourself on the inside to what you see on the outside of others." It's the way you feel. It's all about that same thing. Along the way, your career path so far, you've obviously had people influence you. Maybe your parents, the people at your high school. I'm still blown away by four years of computer science, by the way. Who are your role models now? The types of people who have influenced you. Any thoughts on that?
Sandy: I was asked the same question at a panel a few weeks ago. My first answer was there's probably two types of people. The first, obviously, would be my parents. My mom was actually an engineer. A funny story, she actually helped me with my computer science classes in college when I had a bug. That's cool. People were like, "Wow. Your mom did that?" I'm like, "Yeah. Totally." Then, facetiously, but I really did mean it were, I called them my stupid goofy friends. Those friends are the one that I mentioned who, also sucked at physics like I did, and also failed that particular test like I did, and had trouble with that problem just like I did. They started companies, and they did it at a time when there was no money going around and the VCs were very wary of startups, given what had happened in the boom. They got funded, and they started a company. They worked really hard, and persevered, and were able to create a company that got somewhere. Them telling me that of course you can do it, like why wouldn't you do that? Or, hey, when I was feeling depressed or really unhappy with my job, because I was thinking, I'm coming out of school and I'm really happy about what I did in school, but now I'm in the working world, and I don't know what I want to do, they're like, "You should just pick something that you're passionate about and actually just go for it." Like there's no reason why you can't. Inspiration comes in many forms, and I think for me personally, the strongest was just the support to say yes, you can do it, and belief in me even when I didn't believe in myself. I think that's extremely important, I think, for anybody to have that kind of support network, because you can be successful and you can be rich, have all sorts of accomplishments in the world, but it's really lonely to celebrate them by yourself. Like to have someone else or a team or friends to celebrate with, and had said, "Oh," you know, "I believed in you from day one, and look what happened," is so much more valuable to me than anything else, so...
Larry: All right, now, with all these wonderful things that you've been through, what is the toughest thing that you've experienced in your career?
Sandy: Oh, man. [laughs] I probably would say hiring. When you start a company and you get all this money, people actually expect you to do something with it. [laughter]
Larry: Yeah.
Lucy: That's true.
Sandy: You can't just have the money in the bank and be like oh, I got funded, and now it's just sitting there all nice and pretty. You have to build a team, and you're like OK, I'm 20, when I started, maybe I was like, you know, 23, and, you know, you're a 23-year-old who was a sophomore engineer for two and a half years, you've never managed anybody, you've never hired anybody, you've barely interviewed anybody at your old company, and now you have to build a top-notch tech team to support a product that you kind of hobbled together in your spare time and got funded for, and now they're giving you millions of dollars to go and make it big. You're like holy crap, what am I supposed to do with this? The toughest thing was actually figuring out how to hire, how to evaluate people, how to build a culture for the first 12 people in the company, and also getting over the fact that you're interviewing people who have been in the industry for 20 more years than you have, and they're expected to report to you, because you're the founder and you're the boss. So getting over that was huge and very challenging. I think, as you move more towards your career, like it's six years later at Meebo and I've interviewed hundreds of people now, sometimes there's still that little part of you that when you meet someone with a lot more industry experience, you're like, how do I really make you respect me? Because I may not come off as being like the big hotshot, you know, CTO kind of person. That's probably been the toughest, because evaluating other people is actually really, really hard.
Lucy: Yeah. That was a very interesting answer. I don't believe we've gotten that answer to this question before. But I think it's very interesting. A plug for an organization we work, Women 2.0...writing a book on certain things like this. Like, hiring or interviewing. I chose the question, "How do you let somebody go?"
Larry: Yeah.
Lucy: I figured no one would answer that one. [laughter]
Lucy: I figured nobody would. But I did it, I wrote it. If you were sitting here giving advice to a young person about entrepreneurship, in addition to some of the advice that we've filtered out of this interview so far around, "Don't make artificial excuses, have confidence in yourself," what are the kinds of things you would say to them?
Sandy: One is, to be confident in your own idea. A lot of people have this notion that they have this really cool idea and they're like, "It's really neat, I should really act on it." Then they start to protect it. They baby it, they hide it, they keep it secret, they don't tell anybody. They hide it in the closet and they try to work on it on their own. It seems counter-intuitive but one piece of advice I would give people with ideas, with wanting to start something, is to share the idea as much as you can. Get it out there and get feedback because if you work in a vacuum you're not going to understand how to adapt quickly. I guarantee you, and I've said this many, many times to people, if you have an idea, idea's are never formed in a vacuum, and 20 other people have the same idea and they're already working on it. So, everybody has a different take on an idea, they have a different slant, they have a different perspective, they work on it in a very different way. But the more the idea is out there and the more you can iterate on it the better the idea gets. The more attuned to your audience it can be, whether that be, like I said, an ice-cream store, to a consumer Internet web company, having people give you honest feedback is so critical to creating a really big part. When I tell this to people, they're like, "Really?" I'm like, "Yes. Absolutely. Don't hide the idea." It seems really weird but it's a really good piece of advice that we got early on that helped immensely.
Lucy: That's interesting too. Even if you have a good idea and you hide it. You get out there and as soon as you put it out there someone with more money, they're going to do it too, they're going to copy you.
Sandy: People are always afraid of people copying them. I'm like, "It's OK." One of the early lessons we had was, if you make five or six changes to your UI, let's say I change the button shape or I move the position of a particular radio button or something like that, there were reasons why I did that. The reasons were for a number of user issues or feedback or A/B tests that we did. So, we moved the button over there. But if someone else went straight ahead and copied those pixels they don't understand why we moved that button. So, they don't get the learnings of why we did that. Without the deeper understandings of the decisions that you make a straight copy can work for a certain period of time but it won't work ultimately. That's the counterargument I give to people who say, "Oh, people will copy me." I say, "Well, generally it's the shallow copy, it's not really deep copy."
Larry : Based on all the other things you've said during this interview it should be obvious, but from your perspective what characteristics do you think have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Sandy: Hardworking. You can have as much influence and networking and friends in high places as you can, but if you don't work hard you can't really get there. Also, I didn't have this in the beginning but I think it developed a lot, would be self-confidence, but a sense of humbleness, in a way. Being OK with your decisions and not regretting the decision that you make. But at the same time being open to learning from mistakes, learning from other people who have different opinions and put that into your own system of beliefs. But being able to take a step back and evaluate that from a very non-judgmental perspective is important as well. It's a really long answer but, basically, always listening and asking the right questions, sometimes can be much more powerful than knowing all the answers. Having that perspective as you go from venture to venture or interview to interview is really important. A lot of people that I meet, who I have issues with just working with, like, some entrepreneurs can come off really cocky. I think that's to their detriment, because they may be really smart and really brilliant but if they don't take a step back and think about, "How am I perceived by others? How can I better myself to make other people want to work with me and share knowledge?" I think they're missing that. For me, I've really, really focused on doing that well. That goes into not being just an entrepreneur but as a good manager, as a good leader of the company. I don't have to have all the answers. But as long as I can ask the right questions and get the right issues surfaced, that is extremely effective.
Lucy: Really important. This thing around listening and sometimes I say it's around, even, intuitive listening, because when you're listening really well you actually hear things that people didn't say but actually imply.
Larry: Yeah. Between the lines.
Lucy: Between the lines. There's a lot of value and there's a lot of mischief between the lines. You mentioned, Sandy, about hardworking. Of course, then we all have things we like to do outside of work, I'll put quotes on that. You mentioned your friends and people to celebrate things with. How do you strike that balance there?
Sandy: It's really important. In the beginning of Meebo, I was like, "Work, work, work. Work is awesome, Meebo is great." All I would do is work, work, work. Then at a certain point you're like, "Wow, I'm really tired." [laughter]
Sandy: The tiredness may not actually come from the lack of enthusiasm or lack of passion for the idea, but you're just physically and mentally very, very tired. If you're really tired you can't be productive. One of the things that I focus really hard in Meebo is work-life balance. I rock-climb, I do yoga, I play Ultimate Frisbee, I run, and those to me are just as important as the work I do at Meebo. So, I have this thing, you work hard play hard, and they're equally important. Because if you don't play hard and balance the "work hard" part you're going to tether one way or the other. Burning out is painful. You see it in an engineer, you see it in people who work all the time. You get cranky, you get demotivated and this spiral that keeps going and feeding on itself. You want the spiral to go the other way. The happier you are and the more balanced you are, the happier, more productive you can be and the more imaginative you can be with the work that you do and you can get more ideas that way. Again, super, super important. I will kick my employees out sometimes from work early and force them on vacation if I have to to get them to have more of that balance.
Lucy: It is really important. We heard of some new research, the listeners might find interesting, that there is research that shows, especially in this space, in tech space, and I'm sure it's true in any creative space, that you really can't work longer than eight hours on something without starting to make the crossover mistakes that make it unproductive.
Sandy: I can do that. [laughs]
Lucy: Yeah. Which is pretty interesting.
Larry: Sandy, I love that thought. Yes. Sandy, with all the things you've done, the billions of page views and millions of users and everything, you've already achieved a great deal. What is next for you?
Sandy: That's a good question. My personal goal for Meebo has always been, I should be able to go to any city in the world and say the word "Meebo" and people's eyes should light up and they should know exactly what I'm talking about. People are doing that with Facebook a little but they don't do that with Meebo and I'd love for that to happen. Personally, that's self-interesting too. I started out as a software engineer and then you learn how to manage, you learn how to be a leader. Now, as a CTO my role is divided now where I do a lot of internal management. So, team building and hiring and personal development of the people that work for me. But also, the external part of that. So, reaching out to other folks, going to industry events, speaking on panels. As someone who does both, you can't really do both really, really well if you're pulled in two directions. So, I've been learning to really love the external part. This interview, for example, is really fun for me. I really like going to meet young people outside and encouraging them to start their own ventures. I really like mentoring young people, I like going to these entrepreneurial conferences and inspiring young folks. I really love that part and so I'd love to see more of that in my career and my personal development. Obviously, my commitments and my heart is at Meebo. So, trying to find a good balance there is something that I'm trying to do right now, it's a personal goal of mine. To be honest, I don't know what I'll be doing in five or six years. Hopefully, Meebo will be wildly successful and we'll be looking at trillions of page views instead of billions. But once you start your own venture it's hard to go back to work with somebody else. So, either starting something else or seeing where Meebo goes, I don't know. I really don't know.
Larry: Well, we're going to track you and follow you.
Lucy: Thank you very much for your passion around inspiring more young people to pursue entrepreneurship, technical endeavors, young women to pursue computer science. You're an awesome role model. That's exactly what NCWIT is really trying to do. It's so important. So, thank you for that.
Sandy: No worries. This is really fun.
Lucy: OK. Well, great. We enjoyed talking to you. I want to remind listeners that they can find this and other interviews at w3w3.com and ncwit.org See you around, Sandy.
Sandy: OK.
Series:& Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee:& Sandy JenInterview Summary:& Meebo’s Co-founder and CTO, Sandy Jen recently discussed gaining the self-assurance to start a new company: “You may not feel as if you are qualified or confident enough…The biggest insight in this entrepreneurial journey of mine was when I realized that someone I knew who was not super smart, who failed same tests I did, had started a company, I realized I could do that too.”
Release Date:& January 16, 2012Interview Subject:& Sandy JenInterviewer(s):& Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration:& 24:55https://www.ncwit.org/sites/default/files/audio/sandy.jen_cto-meebo_1-16-2012.mp3Interview with Jennifer Pahlkahttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-jennifer-pahlka
<div class="field field-name-field-audio field-type-file field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Audio File:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><div class="audio-player"><div id="audio-player-2497"></div></div>
<div class="download audio-link"><a href="/sites/default/files/audio/jennifer.pahlka_code4america_1-2-2012.mp3">Download MP3</a></div></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-transcript field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Transcript:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">An Interview with Jennifer Pahlka Founder and Executive Director, Code for America
Date: January 2, 2012 [intro music]
Lucy Sanders: Hello, this is Lucy Sanders, CEO and Co-Founder of NCWIT, the National Center for Woman and Information Technology and with me today, Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Larry, what's going on with old w3w3.com?
Larry Nelson: Oh my goodness. We have so much fun, we interview so many people. We've even been doing it for 12 years now. I must say that this series is extraordinary for us, because what it does for young women, bosses, parents and the like, it's very good. So thank you.
Lucy: Well, listeners will know, we ask women who have started tech companies as part of the series, pretty much the same eight questions and the richness of the answers never ceases to amaze me.
Larry: Oh yeah.
Lucy: I think today we are talking to yet another great entrepreneur in the technology sector, Jennifer Pahlka, who is the Founder and Executive Director of Code for America. Now, this is an awesome effort and I am going to describe it the way that Jennifer did in a recent talk. She says, "It's like a Teach for America or a Peace Corps for Geeks."
Larry: Yes.
Lucy: I just think that's so cool that people in government and city managers for example, who have projects that they think could benefit from web-based solutions and you can make an appeal to Code for America and get volunteer help to help build these projects out, really in some sense making government more open and giving citizens easier access to data. So, I think we are going to hear more about that. Welcome, Jennifer. We are so happy to have you here.
Jennifer Pahlka: Thank you. I am very glad to be here.
Lucy: This is not the first thing Jennifer has been. She is also a serial entrepreneur and has some extensive experience in gaming and media. Before we get off on your entrepreneurship discussion, Jennifer, why don't you tell us a little bit about the latest Code for America? Maybe you can tell us what projects like, "Adopt-a-Fire- Hydrant" are like? [laughs]
Larry: Yeah. Jennifer: Sure, I'd be happy to. We are a pretty new organization, and we just finished up our very first fellowship year. We had 19 fellows work with us all year along and work with the cities, doing great projects. One of them is Adopt-a-Fire-Hydrant app, which came out of the fact the fellows go visit the cities for Fire Weeks in February and when they were there, our Boston team was treated to a massive Snow Apocalypse and one of the things they saw is that, the city is struggling just to clear the streets. They never really get to digging out the fire hydrant. But that the citizens were right in front of them and they could dig them out. So we created a little web app that allows citizens to claim a fire hydrant and agree to dig it out when it snows and the game dynamics on top of it that make it pretty fun. What's cool about that is that other cities who've seen this and adopted it as well. You wouldn't think that Honolulu has anything to do with Boston in terms of something like snow, but they have a similar problem. They need people to check the batteries in the tsunami sirens on the beach.
Lucy: Oh my God.
Jennifer: Too expensive for them to send crews around, checking them every week. So let citizens do that. Now it's also become Adopt-a-Siren and in Buenos Aires it's becoming Adopt-a-Park Bench and in other cities they are using it for other assets that are important to them.
Lucy: Oh, it's so cool, because people who really care about being a good citizen are plugged in, in ways that they know they can make a difference and be helpful.
Larry: Yes.
Jennifer: Exactly, yeah.
Lucy: Awesome. So, Jennifer, tell us a little bit about how you got into starting a technology company, like what got you into doing that?
Jennifer: I wasn't a technical person. My first exposure to technology was actually in the video game industry, which is an incredibly dynamic interesting group to be in, because they are so creative and yet so at the cutting edge of technology. Video games are often breaking grounds in terms of graphics and sound, business models. It was a wonderful introduction not just to technology but community that's so creative and that made me really love technology. But doing conferences both in video game world and in the Web 2.0 world you are constantly talking to some of the smartest, brightest, most passionate people. You see that all of their efforts go towards building products or building services for companies that create a lot of value in our lives. But they don't really go toward building the public institutions that we all pay into and that we all believe should represent us. And so, as a result, without that talent, the public sector is really falling behind. I founded Code for America because I want some of the talent that I have seen over the course of my career in technology, think about building platforms for the public sector as well as the private sector. Start to close that gap between the innovation curve that we're all benefiting from in our personal lives and the way that government works.
Lucy: How big do you think that gap is for the public institutions, just out of curiosity? How far behind are they?
Jennifer: Well, there's that phrase, the future is already here, it's just unevenly distributed.
Lucy: Yes.
Jennifer: That's very true in city government. You've got some incredibly innovative projects. You've got a lot of very innovative people doing wonderful stuff. For example, here in San Francisco, they put sensors in the curbs so they know what parking spaces are taken and what aren't and they've got some complex algorithms that change the pricing of parking in real time in order to optimize to have just one space open per block in San Francisco. If you live in San Francisco, you know how important that is. There's never any parking in San Francisco. But if you do that, you reduce the number, you reduce congestion, you reduce people driving around the block, it had some environmental effects. That's an example of people. There's many others like that. They're doing really great cutting edge stuff, but then you've also got tons of departments and, even within the same city, you'll have different departments that are still running their technology on Coball databases, stuff that's extremely outdated. Not with just bad technology or outdated technology that doesn't have modern develop per community around it, but also with just very outdated approaches about how to provide services to citizens that's stuck in an 80s and 90s model. So, it really varies. I don't want to discount how great some of the government technology leaders are these days, but there's a very long tail behind that that we need to catch up.
Lucy: Well, and for all you listeners out there with Coball skills. [laughs]
Larry: Yes, Lucy, are you talking about yourself?
Lucy: Actually, I took Coball in college. [laughs] I'm thinking I could probably make more money doing that than what I'm doing.
Jennifer: You've got some cities that are going to their local community colleges asking them to teach Coball now so that they can fill those slots, which I'm not sure is really the way to go, buy hey. [laughs]
Lucy: [laughs] Now look, you've got to go after the age people who are thinking about retiring and lure them out you know, for sure.
Larry: I'm thinking when they have to and then deter from that a little bit to get to our next question.
Lucy: OK.
Larry: Jennifer, why are you an entrepreneur and what is it about you that entrepreneurship makes you tick?
Jennifer: I don't think I thought of myself as an entrepreneur, really, until I came up with the idea for Code for America. I think what's important about that to young women who are thinking about this is that you don't have to feel like you're branded an entrepreneur from the time you're 18. I came up with this idea when I was 39, and I suddenly felt that I could be incredibly useful to the world if I made this happen. It was really the power of the idea and the notion that no one else was going to do it, that made me start this organization. It certainly took some risk. I'm not a particularly risk adverse person and that's probably one quality that's important. But it was really feeling like this needed to happen and that no one else was going to do it, that made me start Code for America.
Lucy: I love that answer.
Larry: Yes.
Lucy: I think it's great. Along that path when you started Code for America, did you have people influence you, or did you have mentors, or role models, or who shaped your thinking, if anybody?
Jennifer: Well, early in my career I worked for a number of very strong, powerful but also so caring and nurturing women at the upper levels as media companies that I worked for. Actually, mostly one media company that went through a number of mergers and acquisitions. The president of our group when I was at the game that all the press conference is a woman named Regina Redly. I think the way that connect with technology, the way that she took care of her people all the way that she made the work environment as important as the work outcome, very much influenced me. Later on, when I was starting the idea of Code for America, I was very much inspired by Tim O'Reilly, the guy who's credit with the Web 2.0 and who's been a big thinker in open source. He continues now to be one of my mentors. I was also very inspired by Gwen Mellor who own the Sunlight Foundation D.C. She is a little bit more on the politics side. But someone who's very clear about the effects she wants to have in the world, very engaging, very kind and supportive person. Sunlight Foundation was initially the physical sponsor for Code for America because she actually very concretely helped Code for America get started and I'm very grateful to her.
Larry: Good, wow, with all the things you've done.
Lucy: So far.
Larry: So far, that's right. I can't help but wonder what is one of the toughest things or the toughest thing that you ever had to do in your career?
Jennifer: It's a difficult question. There's a lot of testing with the bum and bust cycles in technology. Certainly, when you have to lay people off, it's very painful because it's easy for them to take it personally. I've seen all this people well, moving on in so I'm less afraid of it than I used to be but it's hard to see people feel demoralized. I would have to say that now the hardest thing with Code for America is with very competitive process. We can only take 25 people a year right now to do our fellowship. We have 550 people apply. So when someone standing up and raising their hand and saying I want a Code for America, I'm going to move across the country work for some soft stipend, work long hours, and do this crazy thing. They're saying they want to do that and we say sorry you're not chosen. That's probably the hardest thing because you want to honor that instinct and that commitment and that generosity saying they are willing to do it.
Lucy: Interesting, so as a side question, are you funded through donations then?
Jennifer: Primarily, yes, from foundations, from corporations, from individuals. We also charge the cities that get a fellow team for the year a small participation fee so that it is not all on a charitable community.
Lucy: It's a great effort. For all you listeners out there with big wallets... [laughter]
Jennifer: Please.
Lucy: Please yes.
Jennifer: In your holiday giving.
Lucy: Absolutely, so if you were sitting here with a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what would you tell them?
Jennifer: I think the biggest thing I would share with an entrepreneur about an entrepreneur is to really care. You have to care about what you're doing. You have to deeply care about the problem you are trying to solve and think it's an important problem, and care about the people that you work with. If you don't really care deeply about your work other people won't and you won't be successful. That's the heart I think of this notion that we want to inspire the tech community, men and women to work on stuff that matters. If you really care you are much more likely to be successful.
Larry: That's wonderful. Once again, all the things you've done and you did you start out to be an entrepreneur and now you've become one. What are the personal characteristics do you think that are giving you the advantage of being an entrepreneur?
Jennifer: A lot of people would talk about risk think that's an important when you do have to be able to take risk. I turned this organization with $10,000 in the bank for the Sunlight Foundation. That was it. When there was a lot more than was needed I quit my job, I didn't have any income for a while, that was important. I think personally for me I would have to say that my focus on a network in a community around what we do is probably in the most important. Somebody once said and I wish I knew who it was, "The time to build your network is before you need it."
Lucy: Exactly.
Larry: Yeah.
Jennifer: I work in the conference industry. So my job was to know a lot of people and to have them care about the work we did and have them invest in the events that we did, in the content, in the ideas that we are promoting. I was lucky, and lucky that was what I was focused on for the first part of my career, because I did build a big network and I valued the people in my network very, very much. I am aware every day of how much the people who support our work and I am not just talking about our donors, though they are very important. I am talking about the people who come in and work, the fellows, the people who share our message on Twitter, whatever little thing people do because they care about our work. We exist because of them and I never want to take our network for granted. I think that's really helped build Code for America.
Larry: Great.
Lucy: Well, then that's so true about your network. You build networks, not necessarily with the intention that you are going to get something back from them, but because it's the right thing to do, to build those networks and to be in service to others and that's how the system works. I have seen so many people who really don't quite understand that. [laughs]
Larry: Yeah.
Jennifer: I think that's exactly why you need to build a network because you care about other people not because you want them to do things for you.
Lucy: I know it's a little backwards just looking.
Jennifer: No, I totally agree.
Lucy: You're totally self-absorbed. So your starting Code for America, obviously you care very deeply about it. You are very busy with the getting a non-profit off the ground. I know it's really hard work. What is it that you do or what sort of tips can you pass along for balance between all the hard work and passion for Code for America and then your side life?
Jennifer: That's an important topic for welfare for women, in particular, though I don't think should be for women in particular, I think it should be men and women. But it's always a challenge. It's been challenge for me before I started Code for America as well. There is a woman named Charlene Li, who runs Altimeter Group. She quit Forrester Group, but when she did, she blog something along the lines that's there is no such thing as work-life balances, its only disappointing and each party last which is a testament that you can see that that it is very difficult. I think I've seen this most effective for me is I have an eight-year-old daughter and my time with her is incredibly precious. I have her half time. When I am with her, I have the personal will, the power in me to actually turn off the vices, or if I have to respond to something else or tell her what it is and say, I am doing this. I am texting so and so for this reason and then I am going to turn my phone off. Knowing that that person needs me and that when I am paying attention to her, I get so much delight out of that interaction. It helps me create some boundaries between the work and home that I probably wouldn't have it, if I didn't have her. I am so grateful for my daughter in my life.
Larry: I can relate to that. I have four daughters.
Jennifer: Oh, you are very blessed.
Larry: Yes. We certainly are. Jennifer, let me ask this. You've already achieved a great deal and we really appreciate and have a great deal of respect for the track you are on, but what's coming up next for you?
Jennifer: It's funny, I don't think of myself as an ambitious person, but I do have some goals for Code for America that I would like us to see work not just in government technology at some point, but I think some of the approaches that we are taking to rebooting government should also be applied in education and that would be interesting for me. I don't know when or if it will happen, but I care a lot about education and I think that we could be putting more money into teachers and less money into administration if we find committees, principals that work, ++who you think was government. So that would be exciting for me, but beyond that I think hopefully what's next for me is more of work-life balance and I think that's really important.
Larry: There you go.
Lucy: Amen.
Larry: Excellent.
Lucy: And a great answer. Well, thank you so much for talking to us. Code for America, a great, great organization, growing and hopefully all you citizens, coders out there maybe can get involved. Thanks very much, I want to remind listeners that this interview can be found at w3w3.com and also at ncwit.org.
Larry: You bet. Jennifer, thank you so much.
Jennifer: Thank you very much for having me.
Larry: Yes. [music]
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-audio-series field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Series:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/resources/audio/entrepreneurial-heroes" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel" datatype="">Entrepreneurial Heroes</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-person field-type-node-reference field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewee:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><a href="/profile/jennifer-pahlka">Jennifer Pahlka</a></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-summary field-type-text-long field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Summary:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><p>Code for America’s Founder and Executive Director, Jennifer Pahlka describes her company as “Teach for America or Peace Corps for geeks.” Working in cities across the United States, Code for America is building a network of civic leaders who believe that there is a better way of doing things and want to make a difference using web-based solutions.</p>
</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-release-date field-type-datetime field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Release Date:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"><span class="date-display-single" property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:dateTime" content="2012-01-02T00:00:00-07:00">January 2, 2012</span></div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interview-subject field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interview Subject:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Jennifer Pahlka</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-interviewer-s- field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Interviewer(s):&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-field-duration field-type-text field-label-above"><div class="field-label">Duration:&nbsp;</div><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">17:31</div></div></div>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 07:00:00 +0000lauren.vonroennhttps://www.ncwit.org/audio/interview-jennifer-pahlka#comments17:32Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& An Interview with Jennifer Pahlka Founder and Executive Director, Code for America
Date: January 2, 2012 [intro music]
Lucy Sanders: Hello, this is Lucy Sanders, CEO and Co-Founder of NCWIT, th...Audio File:&
Download MP3Transcript:& An Interview with Jennifer Pahlka Founder and Executive Director, Code for America
Date: January 2, 2012 [intro music]
Lucy Sanders: Hello, this is Lucy Sanders, CEO and Co-Founder of NCWIT, the National Center for Woman and Information Technology and with me today, Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Larry, what's going on with old w3w3.com?
Larry Nelson: Oh my goodness. We have so much fun, we interview so many people. We've even been doing it for 12 years now. I must say that this series is extraordinary for us, because what it does for young women, bosses, parents and the like, it's very good. So thank you.
Lucy: Well, listeners will know, we ask women who have started tech companies as part of the series, pretty much the same eight questions and the richness of the answers never ceases to amaze me.
Larry: Oh yeah.
Lucy: I think today we are talking to yet another great entrepreneur in the technology sector, Jennifer Pahlka, who is the Founder and Executive Director of Code for America. Now, this is an awesome effort and I am going to describe it the way that Jennifer did in a recent talk. She says, "It's like a Teach for America or a Peace Corps for Geeks."
Larry: Yes.
Lucy: I just think that's so cool that people in government and city managers for example, who have projects that they think could benefit from web-based solutions and you can make an appeal to Code for America and get volunteer help to help build these projects out, really in some sense making government more open and giving citizens easier access to data. So, I think we are going to hear more about that. Welcome, Jennifer. We are so happy to have you here.
Jennifer Pahlka: Thank you. I am very glad to be here.
Lucy: This is not the first thing Jennifer has been. She is also a serial entrepreneur and has some extensive experience in gaming and media. Before we get off on your entrepreneurship discussion, Jennifer, why don't you tell us a little bit about the latest Code for America? Maybe you can tell us what projects like, "Adopt-a-Fire- Hydrant" are like? [laughs]
Larry: Yeah. Jennifer: Sure, I'd be happy to. We are a pretty new organization, and we just finished up our very first fellowship year. We had 19 fellows work with us all year along and work with the cities, doing great projects. One of them is Adopt-a-Fire-Hydrant app, which came out of the fact the fellows go visit the cities for Fire Weeks in February and when they were there, our Boston team was treated to a massive Snow Apocalypse and one of the things they saw is that, the city is struggling just to clear the streets. They never really get to digging out the fire hydrant. But that the citizens were right in front of them and they could dig them out. So we created a little web app that al