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Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

@TheOwl - I think its one of those situations where you have to take the author's word. I mean we can calculate all we want to, but we don't know for example, exactly where the center of the walls is or if the walls are perfectly circular. Because of that, Shinganshina could be anywhere from South Germany, to middle of Italy or Southern France. Its just too much guesswork you know ?

The only piece of fact we had was that one image from the anime where they show the different radius of the walls. That is too little information I think to precisely guess if Shinganshina is in the Italian alps, or more towards the south of Italy.

Plus, you know, like I said the weather could have been different. If the Survery Corps left during an intense drought, then all that desert terrain makes sense. Similarly, Erwin might have left during a much wetter season.

I don't want to argue, I was just irritated that people were slamming the author and the manga :P I actually read the light novel, and I thought that Before the Fall was adapted really well as a manga. I was telling all my friends who like Shingeki to read the unofficial translations on Tumblr xD

Like I said, I didn't want to argue, just thought it was unfair criticism of the author. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Actually I am not new here. I have been here for years, just lurking though ^_^, I know about the covers and also the controversy over the Title of the first chapter.

I think we can only guess based on the setting. The only hints have been the German names and architecture. What is interesting is some names sound Polish, like Karanesk and Trost. Shinganshina doesn't sound German at all. Levi actually could be French or Belgian or Dutch or God knows what xD

THe names of the walls - Maria, Rose and Sina - Sina is definitely German, but Maria could also be Italian or really any European country xD

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

Originally Posted by iamtanmay

@TheOwl - I think its one of those situations where you have to take the author's word. I mean we can calculate all we want to, but we don't know for example, exactly where the center of the walls is or if the walls are perfectly circular. Because of that, Shinganshina could be anywhere from South Germany, to middle of Italy or Southern France. Its just too much guesswork you know ?

The only piece of fact we had was that one image from the anime where they show the different radius of the walls. That is too little information I think to precisely guess if Shinganshina is in the Italian alps, or more towards the south of Italy.

Plus, you know, like I said the weather could have been different. If the Survery Corps left during an intense drought, then all that desert terrain makes sense. Similarly, Erwin might have left during a much wetter season.

I don't want to argue, I was just irritated that people were slamming the author and the manga :P I actually read the light novel, and I thought that Before the Fall was adapted really well as a manga. I was telling all my friends who like Shingeki to read the unofficial translations on Tumblr xD

Like I said, I didn't want to argue, just thought it was unfair criticism of the author. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Actually I am not new here. I have been here for years, just lurking though ^_^, I know about the covers and also the controversy over the Title of the first chapter.

I think we can only guess based on the setting. The only hints have been the German names and architecture. What is interesting is some names sound Polish, like Karanesk and Trost. Shinganshina doesn't sound German at all. Levi actually could be French or Belgian or Dutch or God knows what xD

THe names of the walls - Maria, Rose and Sina - Sina is definitely German, but Maria could also be Italian or really any European country xD

Don't worry, you did not offend me. We simply disagreed on a certain point, and it is not a problem. As for the names, isn't Trost the German word for consolation? Karanese is the actual name of the district according to the wiki. Definitely not German. Rico Brzenska is a Polish name. I think that Kara means black in Turkish. I have no idea what language Shiganishina is supposed to be in. Levi is a Jewish name. Maria and Rose are Latin, Sina could be as you said. There are some people with the last name Sina in my country, but I highly doubt the author even knows where Albania is :P .

In the end the population within the walls is pretty multi-ethnic, where the majority have German, or at least Anglo-Saxon/Germanic/Nordic origins. I wonder who named the Walls and Districts. And why s/he chose precisely those names. But these questions are for another topic.

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

Or it could be it's not meant to be specific to any actual location. I mean historically we never had man eating regenerating giants being fought with compressed gas powered grappling hooks. Also, If some of what I read on TVTropes is accurate, the volume covers for SNK have some info that might change things.

Last edited by Super Angillis; July 08, 2014 at 03:51 PM.
Reason: I decided to change and remove some things I wasn't 1oo% sur about.

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

Shinganshina is Japanese.Trost is German, Brzenska is Polish. Is it Levi ? I thought it was Rivaille, which would be French. Maria and Rose are also German names with the same meaning as English. Karanese would be German.

I checked all the character names. They are all Germans except Rico, and maybe Jean was French. Mitabi Jarnach was the most exotic name, and that is German. Dot Pixis is also a German name.

I don't think its multi ethnic at all. It seems to be 99% Germans and maybe a handful from neighbouring countries, plus one Japanese. It seems all the non germans went the way of the orientals.

The ship on the cover of chapter one. Who was it bringing ? I think that might have been the Orientals, since Europeans would have travelled over land.

That might be how Shinganshina got its name. The Oriental refugees coming from the south.

@SuperAngilis - Oh it definitely is set in a geographically accurate setting. Also the historic setting is also accurate. You remember Hanje's rant about cannibals ? Well, that was a real thing. Sawney Bean is a legend in Scotland in the 1500s, which is believed to have some truth.

What that means is that SnK is set in a time after 1500 + 100 (time already spent behind the wall) = 1600 at least.

However, they have modern rifles in the series. If these rifles are flintlock, that puts the series in the early 1800s, if as Jean remarked, they have a magazine of 3 bullets, then they are breech loading, which puts them in 1860s.

There is also the hot air balloon that Armin's parents flew, as well as the revolver that the old guy was inventing, who got offed by the MP. Technologically, they are set in the 1860s after. Timewise I think 100 should be added, because scientific research in a population of only 1M people inside the wall would be 0, compared to the progress made historically. Because America and Europe where most of the progress took place, had hundreds of millions of people at the time. 1M would mean an absolute halt to tech progress.

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

I checked all the character names. They are all Germans except Rico, and maybe Jean was French. Mitabi Jarnach was the most exotic name, and that is German. Dot Pixis is also a German name.

I don't think its multi ethnic at all. It seems to be 99% Germans and maybe a handful from neighbouring countries, plus one Japanese. It seems all the non germans went the way of the orientals.

I'm sure this has been talked about, but while this does seem to be a predominantly German population its not for certain that the story takes place in Germany. Even given the architecture and technology, there's no guarantee that its the late 1800s (many have talked about the cryptic nature of title of the first Anime episode). In fact, I'd say there's no guarantee that they are even on planet Earth.

There's no analogous terrain as the SNK world in Europe. Where are the Alps? Where do those mountains cross the walls? You'd be hard pressed to find matching terrain on Earth, although one person did locate a similar place in Eurasia. Then again, you'd have to explain why there are sequoia trees (or something even larger?) inside the walls. Two possibilities exist IMO: they are on another planet, or they live in a geoengineered region.

Your point about technological progress is right on target. How can such a small population with limited resources come up with such ingenious devices? Horse carts with suspensions better than a Mercedes, revolving pistols, 3DMG, grenades fired by firing pins and so on. It seems unlikely they'd progress so far. Technological development is dependent on having excess energy for innovation, trial and error. This is one of the social principles highlighted in Jared Diamond's Collapse and other works. They do seem to have vast stores of natural gas energy, but other than for 3DMG they don't appear to be using it. Plus they are constantly in food shortage, which hampers innovation. Furthermore, its clear that Titans are designed, and that kind of "biotech" is way beyond anything we could currently imagine (including building the walls in such a way). It seems more likely that the technology is brought in from the outside world just like the canned food in Castle Utgard. In my opinion, the walls, tech, and titans all point to the time period for SnK being WAAAAYYYY in the future. My paranoid mind suggests that there is in fact amazing technology outside the walls, but for some reason the humans inside the walls are being prevented from getting ahold of it, or developing it.

The only thing that's certain is that most of the people in the walls speak German and are European. We don't know where they came from as there's no history before the walls and all memories have been altered. Where they are and what era they live in is totally part of the mystery of SnK, and I'll be excited when the author makes the big reveal.

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

@Pixisuuu - It is Earth. Remember when Hanje named the two Titans ? She talks about the Scottish legend of Sawney Bean, hisotrical cannibal cult leader. Its a real thing. Obviously an alternate Earth. We don't have Giants here.

The evidence - geographic, historic and ethnic points to an alternate 18th -19th century Germany, instead of a post-apocalypse future. There is 0 evidence for what you suggest. Your idea is too fantastic. The author has been ridiculously detail oriented. I doubt he worked this hard to just throw it away in the end.

You lived here, you can understand from the map how far the places are. You won't run into the alps if you go horse riding for a few days. They don't have cars like us.

We havent seen the *inside* of Sina. Annie was in Stohess, which is outside of Sina itself. To see the Alps, you would have to travel into Sina.

To give you an idea of the distance - the center ? That is 250 km away from where Annie was ! Keep in mind we mostly see border towns - Trost, Shinganshina, Karanesk, Stohess - with a population of ~10,000. Even with survey scouts, we see at most a half day's worth of travelling by horse from these towns. Its a tiny amount of distance compared to thel area inside the walls.

Thats why the spin off novels are so important. We see the geography just outside Maria (Italy), which is very different from the territory outside Rose (Austria). We would normally never see that.

It seems in the latest chapter that Erwin is presented to the king. If this is the real center, then we are 500 km away from where the story began in Shinganshina !

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

When I lived there I climbed the tallest mountain in Germany known as the Zugspitze. That mountain would be on the south side of Wall Sina according to your map. I lived roughly in the center of this map in Mainz and Heidelberg. What I can tell you is that in terms of elevation, the Zugspitze is much higher than the center of this map where I lived. Also, the Swiss and Italian alps would also be between Sina and Rose. According to Kishi himself, the center of the land in the walls is higher than the outer areas, and all the rivers flow downwards from the center. From what I can see, this is not the geography of Central Europe at all, so I concluded that this cannot be the same Germany I lived in.

In my travels to central Italy, I can tell you it is dryer and dustier than Germany, but nothing looks like the apocalyptic wasteland of Before the Fall. Even in the summer would there be bushes and trees. I think the argument about seasons is irrelevant also because we got to see the apocalyptic outside area twice. Once when Charle's family looks over the wall, and second when the Survey Corps leaves. Both times the landscape is completely barren. I do agree that the spinoff novels are important. Especially the chapters in A Choice With No Regrets when we see Levi and Co leaving Wall Maria (not Rose, Maria) to be greeted by trees and grass. This tells me something changed since the time of Before the Fall and ACWNR (or there was some disconnect between Kishi and the BtF mangaka) That's my conclusion. I think it seems reasonable.

Another factoid to consider is that the people within the walls, not even those living in Shiganshina, have any concept of the ocean's existence. Your map shows the walls intersecting with the Adriatic and North Seas. Sure the walls aren't perfect circles, but if the walls truly surrounded Germany, they'd have been built awfully close to the oceans. You would probably be able to see the ocean standing on top of Wall Maria in some parts. If the walls were where you say they are, the seawater would still flow into Hamburg (yes I've been there), and Eren wouldn't be surprised to hear about salt water. The Rakago village arc shows us what the lands between Sina and Rose are like. We don't encounter any Alps. Similarly, when Erwin and Co. head for Shiganshina from Karanese, they don't bring any crampons for climbing mountains.

You're right that they reference Sawney Bean. That only tells us for certain that the events in SnK happen after the 16th century. It doesn't guarantee that what's happening is in the 18th century instead of the 180th century. Nor does it mean that the entire events within the walls isn't just some experiment being conducted on a colonized planet 2000 years from now, where the land has been geoengineered to provide a continent with a high mountain in the center which flows water down in all directions (such geography is pretty fantastical in my opinion given what we know about plate tectonics, geology, and land formation). I agree my ideas are pretty fantastical, but its also fantastical to believe that people in the 18th century could somehow develop the technology to make titans, or build seamless walls around Germany. Neither is proven or disproven at this point, but given the clues so far (see below) I prefer to think its the distant future. I also think Kishi was giving us a big clue when he named the first anime episode "To You, in 2000 Years." I admit all of this is theory and nothing is confirmed, but don't dismiss an idea just because its "fantastical."

What I'll say here is that I've lived many years in Central Germany and traveled to almost all the places shown in AoT IF we assumed that the walls surrounded Germany. I've seen these places with my own eyes, and say that the idea that AoT takes place in a parallel Germany with the same geography doesn't make sense.

Here's one factoid that will blow your mind too. Hanji (Angie, who are we kidding!) also named pet titans after Albert (for Albert Fish 1870 - 1936) and Chikachiro (for Andrei Romanovich Chikatilo 1936 - 1994!). Holy moly, when I first read that, it BLEW MY MIND. This means that Hange had to have some cultural tradition that was able to hand down stories of someone who died in 1994! So this means all we can say for certain that AoT happens sometime AFTER 1994. I agree that the author has been very detail oriented. He's given us some good clues if we pay attention. I think your conclusion is that he is telling a straight forward story (walls were built around a parrallel Germany with the same geography in the 1700s to 1800s, and thats why everyone is German and builds cities like Germans). My opinion is that the author gave us these clues to tell us there is something far more complex going on. Its just an opinion though, and everyone is entitled to thiers.

To be honest, I would love to imagine Eren and the Survey Corps flying around the cities I used to live in. I'd feel very connected to this story if I were German and lived in Germany because it looks so much like Germany and all the characters have German names. However just because there are some superficial similarities between the people and the cities in AoT with Deutschland, that doesn't mean that the straight forward answer is the best answer. Just my two cents.

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

On that topic, anyone else think Naruto's the type of guy who would cry after sex?

Originally Posted by Rikudou King

I fount it interesting that had Kushina not gotten knocked up, None of them would be in the current situation. She's more responsible for the Uchiha massacre then Danzo and co. Crap, Now Sasuke has a valid reason to use his hatred against Naruto.

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

Read the new chapter. Not very exciting, I must admit, but I really like the way they are portraying the Survey Corps' desperate fight against a Titan without using the 3DMG. Though, if Isayama was the writer the Survey Corps would have already been surrounded by Titans.

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

Ryō Suzukaze wrote this, not the author of the current manga Satoshi Shiki. This manga is just covering the Light Novel that was already written some time back. Satoshi is basically doing the storyboards. The story itself has been written long back. So if you want to spoil the manga for yourself you can just read the translation of the Light Novel.

But you can't blame the mangaka. After all, he didn't write the story.

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

Ladies and gentlemen, hello! I wonder whether this spin-off hasn't been being translated for months, notwithstanding 3 more chapters have been published in the meantime, whose spoilers are available: http://www.onemanga.me/shingeki_no_k...fore_the_fall/ . Furthermore, the end of the other spin-off (Levi's one) should have focused attention (and scanlators) on "Before the fall". Anyone found these 3 translated?

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

It never really occurred To me that SNK could be taking place on earth or around our time. I always just figured it was in its own universe or mybe in the future, but i guess it could be earth. I like the info from the translations on the cover, but doesn't it say most ppl came from sea to the " new world"? How does that fit into the "SNK earth theory"? If it were Germany the majority of the ppl wouldn't be traveling by sea, and ppl have been living in and around Germany since humanity was new not the other way around lol

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

Originally Posted by JSnow81

It never really occurred To me that SNK could be taking place on earth or around our time. I always just figured it was in its own universe or mybe in the future, but i guess it could be earth. I like the info from the translations on the cover, but doesn't it say most ppl came from sea to the " new world"? How does that fit into the "SNK earth theory"? If it were Germany the majority of the ppl wouldn't be traveling by sea, and ppl have been living in and around Germany since humanity was new not the other way around lol

Another thing that occurs to me is that there is no mention of people already living in the walls when humanity arrives (if that even happened). That would mean all these german speakers would have needed to migrate FROM Germany to "somewhere else." Its possible there was no migration and this history is just a result of memory manipulation.