Thoughts from the interface of science, religion, law and culture

After spending several years touring the country as a stand up comedian, Ed Brayton tired of explaining his jokes to small groups of dazed illiterates and turned to writing as the most common outlet for the voices in his head. He has appeared on the Rachel Maddow Show and the Thom Hartmann Show, and is almost certain that he is the only person ever to make fun of Chuck Norris on C-SPAN.

EVENTS

Fischer: You Won’t Like Us When We’re Mad

Bryan Fischer was interviewed by the Worldnutdaily for an article about how liberal “bullying” (you keep using that word…) is what led to Louis Giglio withdrawing from the Obama inauguration, and Fischer pulled the old “you’re making us mad, and you wouldn’t like us when we’re mad” ploy:

And much like the Chick-fil-A flap last year, Fischer said Christians are fed up with the lectures from the left:

“More and more Christians and social conservatives are going to say, ‘Look, I’m tired of us getting pushed around here. The values that we believe in this area are values that were shared by the Founding Fathers. They’re the same set of moral values that built the United States into the greatest, strongest and most prosperous nation in the world.

“I’m tired of backing down on this issue. I’m tired of apologizing for this. I’m tired of Christian leaders who apologize for this. It’s time for us to show some strength and some moxy. We’re going to start to see some pushback against these bullying tactics from the left.”

I love how they keep vacillating between “this nation is lost, we’ve turned away from God and he’s punishing us for it” and “you’re waking up the sleeping giant of American Christianity and it’s going to take America back from you terrible sinners.” The fact is, you aren’t gonna do anything other than continue to rage ignorantly and impotently.

In fairness, I think there are people on our side who vacillate between “this fundamentalist pushback is the last gasp of religion as the nones take over” vs “religion is taking over this country and things are worse than they’ve been in decades!” Of course, just as dumb when our side does it :D

We won’t like them when they’re “mad”? I assume that Fischer means in the colloquial sense of their being angry. Whether they are happy or pissed they’re spittle-flecking, bug-eyed, batshitKKKrazzee mad; of that there is no doubt.

“I’m tired of backing down on this issue. I’m tired of apologizing for this.

Does he really believe he has been apologising for his odious views? Does he think he has been backing down, and keeping quiet on how he feels about homosexuality. Delusional enough for a Bryan Fischer Award?

I don’t like him when he’s not mad. In fact, I like him more when he’s angry because it means that he’s raging about something good happening for people instead of crowing happily about nonsense done for his god.

I always laugh at such twits as Fischer. Poor conservative Christians, they so desperately want to claim how large their numbers are are when convenient to their appeal to popularity. But when they want to claim persecution and martydom, they have to reverse that, and insist on how few there are and boo-hoo how put upon they are. Perhaps, they do realize that Christianity isn’t all that they claim, and is a fractured movement, whose sects hate each other, all certain that they and only they have the “real” god and know what it “really” means.

And no, Fischie, the founding fathers did not all believe like your little ignorant band of Christians do. That’s a lie and indeed, false witnessing. It does not suprise me that he seems to be threatening violence. That’s all this band of bigots has left.

You know, I’m decidedly non-religious, but even I know that the likes of Fischer don’t own Christianity. All the stuff they’re freaking out over? There are millions of Christians who are reasonable enough not to raise a fuss over.

and Fischer pulled the old “you’re making us mad, and you wouldn’t like us when we’re mad” ploy:

That is true.

Fundie xianity is based on hate and that sometimes ends in violence and murder. A rival church (Mosque) burned down here, an MD assasinated there, a family clinic burned down somewhere else, and a gay person beaten to death for no particular reason. And death threats everywhere for everybody. Xian terrorism has been a problem in the USA for decades.

No, we don’t like terrorists and mindless haters. Why should we?

It’s an idle threat. Fischer and the fundies have the hate, crazy, and mad turned up to max already.

In fairness, I think there are people on our side who vacillate between “this fundamentalist pushback is the last gasp of religion as the nones take over” vs “religion is taking over this country and things are worse than they’ve been in decades!”

Conveniently, Heinlein’s “Sixth Column” is back in print. Although IMHO they missed the best publication window by not having it (and “If This Goes On”) out during the Republican primarys last year.

In fairness, I think there are people on our side who vacillate between “this fundamentalist pushback is the last gasp of religion as the nones take over” vs “religion is taking over this country and things are worse than they’ve been in decades!”

In fairness, I think both these statements could be true, and consistently put forth by the same person. It all depends on what time frame we’re talking about here. If the “last gasp of religion” is seen as a nasty but historically-brief 40-year hiccup, then that’s not a whole heck of a lot of comfort to us right now. Someone could think it will get worse before it gets better — but that same someone we might think we need to exercise some control over how much worse it’s going to get.

“I’m tired of backing down on this issue. I’m tired of apologizing for this.”

Since people have been rightly pointing out that Bryan Fisher doesn’t seem to show any public history of doing this, we should probably assume that he must be referring to some of his private actions. He’s been being super nice at family dinners, polite to his relatives and thoughtful about avoiding heated controversies during birthday parties and other happy celebrations.

Well, no more. The boom is being lowered and no more Mr. Nice Guy. Watch out, Grandpa. Bryan isn’t going to be apologizing for being a wingnut Christian loon anymore and he WILL have that conversation over the cake and ice cream he doesn’t care what happens or what sort of hell breaks loose or even if Cousin Marge locks herself in the bathroom again.

“values that built the United States into the greatest, strongest and most prosperous nation in the world.”

Of course fundamentalists believe that their hate made the US great. But I think what made the US great is what the fundamentalists hate.

Let’s break it down:

“Greatest:” One thing making America great is the First Amendment, but, if I recall correctly, Fischer has claimed that only Christians have freedom of religion.

“Strongest:” I’d say it was a combination of the military, which Republicans have misused over the last decade, and the Marshall Plan, which people like Fischer would probably have hated.

“Most Prosperous:” This is an easy one. Our prosperity goes hand-in-hand with the New Deal, and the legacy of the New Deal over the last 80 years. Of course, that’s another thing fundamentalists such as Fischer hate.

excellent points, theguy. We have the highest GDP/Capita but not the highest average median wealth per capita by a long shot (what i’d call prosperity).

” liberal “bullying” (you keep using that word…)”
Fisher gets it wrong but Liberals are perfectly capable of being bullies and bullying. What counts for most folks as bullying usually depends on whose ox is getting gored or the ends. We should, as rationalists (as you all keep insisting you are), define bulling as a matter of means. It reduces the subjectivity of what counts and what does not.

I don’t think me choosing where I spend my money or where we collectively choose to spend our money is a means that falls into the group of bad acts otherwise labeled ‘bullying’. Discrimination against a given business happens all the time in a market economy, it’s even essential to capitalism.

fwiw, i don’t think we need to do an impacts analysis (look for harms) to decide if something is bullying or not. Impacts (harms) tells us if we’re ethical or not, it’s othogonal. You can threaten to kneecap your neighbor if they don’t mow their lawns but if they were going to mow anyway (no change in behavior, lets assume arguendo that you would have kneecapped them but also that they failed to believe that) you still bullied them.