I'd agree that Tuttle is probably behind it (but the reverend or the governor or both?) and the theory about the beer can figures seems as reasonable as anything else. Who knows though, this show hasn't exactly been predictable.

Confabulat:I'd agree that Tuttle is probably behind it (but the reverend or the governor or both?) and the theory about the beer can figures seems as reasonable as anything else. Who knows though, this show hasn't exactly been predictable.

It just seems so predictable, and kind of out of left field. Not narratively, since its obviously been foreshadowed, but given the thematic focus of the show on Rust and Marty, it would seem weird to come out of the blue and say "hey, that guy from episode 1 - he did it!" Thematically random.

DamnYankees:I just watched all 5 episodes in the last 24 hours. This show is a farking masterpiece. It's creepy and interesting and brilliantly acted. But so, so creepy.

I will say I don't love this theory - its a little too Hot Fuzz for me. But I like the symbolism.

I watched it on a whim because it was on HBO and I had heard nothing about it and instantly got absorbed. So far, it's as good as it gets. Someone suggested a Twin Peaks-esque situation where killing the one guy just had the Taxman get infected with evil. I hope that's not it because that would be pretty lame.

vygramul:I watched it on a whim because it was on HBO and I had heard nothing about it and instantly got absorbed. So far, it's as good as it gets. Someone suggested a Twin Peaks-esque situation where killing the one guy just had the Taxman get infected with evil. I hope that's not it because that would be pretty lame.

Yeah, I find it hard to square that. I just can't see them doing it, since I don't understand what the thematic tie would be.

Another alternative is of course that Marty actually did it - he's more farked up than Cole is.

DamnYankees:Confabulat: I'd agree that Tuttle is probably behind it (but the reverend or the governor or both?) and the theory about the beer can figures seems as reasonable as anything else. Who knows though, this show hasn't exactly been predictable.

It just seems so predictable, and kind of out of left field. Not narratively, since its obviously been foreshadowed, but given the thematic focus of the show on Rust and Marty, it would seem weird to come out of the blue and say "hey, that guy from episode 1 - he did it!" Thematically random.

True, and that actually puts a damper on this 5-cops hypothesis. That seems too easy, too.

vygramul:That was a great scene. I've never been a particular fan of McConaughey, but he's farking great in this and that scene is just an example of it.

You been watching him the last few years? He's turned into one of the best actors alive right now. Mud, Magic Mike, The Wolf of Wall Street are all farking great performances. He's also supposedly great in Killer Joe and Dallas Buyers Club but I haven't seen those.

DamnYankees:vygramul: I watched it on a whim because it was on HBO and I had heard nothing about it and instantly got absorbed. So far, it's as good as it gets. Someone suggested a Twin Peaks-esque situation where killing the one guy just had the Taxman get infected with evil. I hope that's not it because that would be pretty lame.

Yeah, I find it hard to square that. I just can't see them doing it, since I don't understand what the thematic tie would be.

Another alternative is of course that Marty actually did it - he's more farked up than Cole is.

Marty would make a much better answer. He was all farked up before the first guy, and he started slipping when his daughter became my kind of woman.

DamnYankees:vygramul: That was a great scene. I've never been a particular fan of McConaughey, but he's farking great in this and that scene is just an example of it.

You been watching him the last few years? He's turned into one of the best actors alive right now. Mud, Magic Mike, The Wolf of Wall Street are all farking great performances. He's also supposedly great in Killer Joe and Dallas Buyers Club but I haven't seen those.

vygramul:Maybe not. But it seems too easy to be the five cops in the station. Now if it were the captain, that would be something, as that would be totally casting outside type.

The thing is, it seems like Ledoux really did do it. I mean, he can't be innocent. So the idea that there's a Yellow King doesn't mean Ledoux was innocent, just that he did it in conjunction with someone.

Of course, the question becomes how and why the victim in ep 1 was killed. She has connections to the five, and for her to be killed when they were killing unrelated people before suggests that something went very wrong in the plot to begin with.

DamnYankees:vygramul: Maybe not. But it seems too easy to be the five cops in the station. Now if it were the captain, that would be something, as that would be totally casting outside type.

The thing is, it seems like Ledoux really did do it. I mean, he can't be innocent. So the idea that there's a Yellow King doesn't mean Ledoux was innocent, just that he did it in conjunction with someone.

One thing I was contemplating was that this involves several pillars of crime. Ledoux is drugs - maybe one of the kings is the madam. But I haven't decided what the other ones might be.

I will say this show is a fine argument for watching a show as it is broadcast on TV and having to wait a week between installments.

If it had gone the Netflix route and all 8 episodes were immediately available, I'd have probably burned through them all in one sitting. Having to wait a week makes me think about the last episode, maybe rewatch it, come up with some silly theories and then debunk them, and just let it sit and marinate in my skull until the next one. It's very satisfying.

DamnYankees:vygramul: Maybe not. But it seems too easy to be the five cops in the station. Now if it were the captain, that would be something, as that would be totally casting outside type.

The thing is, it seems like Ledoux really did do it. I mean, he can't be innocent. So the idea that there's a Yellow King doesn't mean Ledoux was innocent, just that he did it in conjunction with someone.

BTW: I realized that if it turns out Ledoux isn't the bad guy, Marty has to reassess his own actions in a much harsher light. It's not a surprise this is really bad news for him if it casts doubt on guilt.

vygramul:DamnYankees: vygramul: Maybe not. But it seems too easy to be the five cops in the station. Now if it were the captain, that would be something, as that would be totally casting outside type.

The thing is, it seems like Ledoux really did do it. I mean, he can't be innocent. So the idea that there's a Yellow King doesn't mean Ledoux was innocent, just that he did it in conjunction with someone.

BTW: I realized that if it turns out Ledoux isn't the bad guy, Marty has to reassess his own actions in a much harsher light. It's not a surprise this is really bad news for him if it casts doubt on guilt.

/Not that Ledoux's other crimes didn't deserve it

Exactly. Even if somehow he didn't do the antler job, he still killed and tortured children. Marty didn't kill him because of the first murder.

DamnYankees:vygramul: DamnYankees: vygramul: Maybe not. But it seems too easy to be the five cops in the station. Now if it were the captain, that would be something, as that would be totally casting outside type.

The thing is, it seems like Ledoux really did do it. I mean, he can't be innocent. So the idea that there's a Yellow King doesn't mean Ledoux was innocent, just that he did it in conjunction with someone.

BTW: I realized that if it turns out Ledoux isn't the bad guy, Marty has to reassess his own actions in a much harsher light. It's not a surprise this is really bad news for him if it casts doubt on guilt.

/Not that Ledoux's other crimes didn't deserve it

Exactly. Even if somehow he didn't do the antler job, he still killed and tortured children. Marty didn't kill him because of the first murder.

No, but I'm not sure that events would have unfolded in the same way had this just been a drug raid.

DamnYankees:I'm still amazed and grateful they somehow got these 2 incredible actors to do a show like this. It's just a pleasure. I worry though that this is not a replicable model for future seasons.

In that way, it really might be like Twin Peaks, and everyone loses interest after season 1. Then again, the writing is so intelligent, maybe this will survive even HBO's infamous season-3 curse.

The detectives know that Rust isn't the killer. In fact, they know who the killer is. That's not what they're after. This whole thing has been an investigation to get Rust and Marty on charges of filing a false police report in 1995. It ends with the two of them getting busted for that.

JerseyTim:The detectives know that Rust isn't the killer. In fact, they know who the killer is. That's not what they're after. This whole thing has been an investigation to get Rust and Marty on charges of filing a false police report in 1995. It ends with the two of them getting busted for that.

The last scene is swelling dramatic music. It's a dark, wet hallway. Our heros slowly walk down the hall to the iron bars at the end. When they get there, they undergo their final redemption - paying a $200 fine to the petty cash office for their grievous misdeeds.

Pajiba also did a nice post breaking down the pros and cons of "Is Rust the real monster". Here's the post:

Rust Cohle is the monster.

* Dewall, Reggie Ledoux's cook partner, on Cohle:

"I can see your soul at the edges of your eyes. It's corrosive, like acid ... If I see you again, I'm putting you down. There's a shadow on you, son."

* Reggie Ledoux, before he had his brains blown out: "It's time, isn't it. The black stars ... the black stars rise. I know what happens next. I saw you in my dream. You're in Carcosa now. With me. He sees you ... you'll do this again. Time is a flat circle."

* The double murderer, who knows things. "Y'all never caught the man that did that. He's been out there, killing ... There's big people who know about him. Big people ... I tell you, about the Yellow King ... THE YELLOW KING."

* Cohl steered the initial investigation toward Reggie Ledoux to cover his own ass, created the Yellow King in 2002 to mask his involvement in additional murders, and went off the grid only to kill again. After all, as Cohle said himself, the world needs bad men. Cohle is simply fulfilling the bad man quota.

* The double murderer who killed himself said he'd seen the killer before, but didn't identify Cohle as the Yellow King.

* The double murderer said that there's big people who knew about the Yellow King. Later, during the interview with the detectives, Cohle questioned how they kept the crime scene out of the papers. "How'd you keep her out of the papers, maybe you got some friends in high places?"

Big people?

* It seems like, since Cohle went off the grid, he's been trying to do his own investigation, because he understands that he couldn't do it within the confines of the police department because of those big people. It's clear he has been doing a lot of digging (because he's seen at the crime scenes), and he has his own theories, which he was hoping the interviewing detectives would help him with. Why would the serial killer be investigating the crimes? Why would a serial killer return to the scene, especially someone as smart as Cohle.

* It's too pat, and emotionally unsatisfying. Plus, there's three episodes left, and still too much time to pin the murders on Cohle. The remaining episodes would seem to be about Cohle reuniting with Hart to prove his innocence and find the real killer.

* That last shot was not suggesting that Cohle was the killer inside the frame, but that he was actually being framed.

But who could be smart enough to frame Cohle?

* There may be something else entirely at play.The King in Yellow, True Detective is a horror story, one with supernatural elements (which might explain the hallucinations that Cohle has had).

My not entirely crackpot theory that Marty Hart is the real killer:1. Quick temper2. Prone to violence3. Issues with women4. Shot a deer (has access to antlers)5. Plugged Reginald Ledoux before he could be interrogated

Biggest problem: While he seems like a hair-trigger nut, he doesn't come off like some sort of meticulous, symbolism-obsessed serial killer

Honestly, this show seems most primed for a Zodiac-type ending, where we never find out who the killer is, since the whole point of the show is more about the lives of the people searching for the killer. Not even sure that'd annoy me.

Blues_X:DamnYankees: aiiee: One of the best scenes I've seen in a long time: Rust and Dr girlfriend watching tv and all she does is go from channel to channel. Not a word said but the scene spoke volumes.

Can you expand on that? I'm missing the genius there. Seemed like a pretty normal b-roll scene to me.

It showed his growing detachment, instead of warming up to the relationship. Same planets different worlds. All that.

And her dissatisfaction, and his not seeing this. All in 10 seconds, no words. I don't know what a "normal b-roll scene " might be, but I liked this one.

naughtyrev:My take: we're in for the ultimate setup. This isn't a police/mystery drama, this is a horror series. The spaghetti guy chasing the girl was real. Rust sees the beast and that's what changes him.

I've seen this theory as well. That this is actually a fantasy/magical realism show which is just waiting a long time to show that side of itself. All I can say it that I'd find this unsatisfying.

I thought the "spaghetti man" was satisfying (and terrifyingly) dealt with in the final shot of episode 3, where we see Ledoux with the gas mask.

DamnYankees:naughtyrev: My take: we're in for the ultimate setup. This isn't a police/mystery drama, this is a horror series. The spaghetti guy chasing the girl was real. Rust sees the beast and that's what changes him.

I've seen this theory as well. That this is actually a fantasy/magical realism show which is just waiting a long time to show that side of itself. All I can say it that I'd find this unsatisfying.

I thought the "spaghetti man" was satisfying (and terrifyingly) dealt with in the final shot of episode 3, where we see Ledoux with the gas mask.

I think we're being led to believe that Billy Lee Tuttle is the yellow king. I don't know if I believe it though. Rust may be being framed, but I think that is too obvious and will be seen through. I don't know if I'd find my theory satisfying or not to be honest, I guess it would depend on how it would be handled.

vygramul:Just rewatching episode 5: "Tuttle died in 2010, right after Cohle came back into the state."

So Tuttle is dead before the interviews take place.

Which one? Aren't there two Tuttles? The guy they met in episode 1 who is doing the task force, and his cousin the governor? Who is the one who died, and how is the one suspected of being the Yellow King?

DamnYankees:vygramul: Just rewatching episode 5: "Tuttle died in 2010, right after Cohle came back into the state."

So Tuttle is dead before the interviews take place.

Which one? Aren't there two Tuttles? The guy they met in episode 1 who is doing the task force, and his cousin the governor? Who is the one who died, and how is the one suspected of being the Yellow King?

They said Billy Lee Tuttle, with is Jay O. Sanders' character.

It's odd, of course, because he's normally not someone to make cameos. Maybe another flashback will bring him into the story?