Are there many pro here?

[quote]So, most of us here if not all here (or other photographer similar to us) spend thousands on equipment just for the love of it?[/quote]
I have a philosophy where I spend thousands on photography gear in the vain attempt that it will inhibit the missus from spending thousands on bleeding shoes, handbags and jackets.
Unfortunately, my philosophy appears to be flawed and it ain't working.

Quote:So, most of us here if not all here (or other photographer similar to us) spend thousands on equipment just for the love of it?

I have a philosophy where I spend thousands on photography gear in the vain attempt that it will inhibit the missus from spending thousands on bleeding shoes, handbags and jackets.

Unfortunately, my philosophy appears to be flawed and it ain't working.

[quote]So, most of us here if not all here (or other photographer similar to us) spend thousands on equipment just for the love of it?
I have a philosophy where I spend thousands on photography gear in the vain attempt that it will inhibit the missus from spending thousands on bleeding shoes, handbags and jackets.
Unfortunately, my philosophy appears to be flawed and it ain't working.[/quote]
You need to realise, women nicked our rib, so what chance have you got at keeping tabs on the money? NONE :( Us males are the weaker sex, as we always give in to the wife/partner or whatever you live with. Mine is in the UK at the moment, visiting her mother and at times I keep thinking I'm deaf :$ She knows I'm after a new carbon fibre tripod and ball head, as I'm going to the UK, to the Lake District in July on a photo shoot and she's certainly not a happy chappy :P I would not mind, but my Manfrotto is too heavy to take, but try explaining that to a woman. She must spend at least £1200 a year on flights alone, going back to the UK, but what the hell, we are just mere men! :( Maybe one day we may nick our rib back, but don't hold your breath!

Quote:So, most of us here if not all here (or other photographer similar to us) spend thousands on equipment just for the love of it?

I have a philosophy where I spend thousands on photography gear in the vain attempt that it will inhibit the missus from spending thousands on bleeding shoes, handbags and jackets.

Unfortunately, my philosophy appears to be flawed and it ain't working.

You need to realise, women nicked our rib, so what chance have you got at keeping tabs on the money? NONE Us males are the weaker sex, as we always give in to the wife/partner or whatever you live with. Mine is in the UK at the moment, visiting her mother and at times I keep thinking I'm deaf She knows I'm after a new carbon fibre tripod and ball head, as I'm going to the UK, to the Lake District in July on a photo shoot and she's certainly not a happy chappy I would not mind, but my Manfrotto is too heavy to take, but try explaining that to a woman. She must spend at least £1200 a year on flights alone, going back to the UK, but what the hell, we are just mere men! Maybe one day we may nick our rib back, but don't hold your breath!

[quote]She knows I'm after a new carbon fibre tripod and ball head, as I'm going to the UK, to the Lake District in July on a photo shoot [/quote]
Mmmm, I could rent you my Carbon tripod and ballhead whilst over here Stephen for lets see, about £200. See if that will placate the dear wife.
I certainly have no intention of using it here in the Lakes in July..... god awful month for photography...
;)

Quote:She knows I'm after a new carbon fibre tripod and ball head, as I'm going to the UK, to the Lake District in July on a photo shoot

Mmmm, I could rent you my Carbon tripod and ballhead whilst over here Stephen for lets see, about £200. See if that will placate the dear wife.

I certainly have no intention of using it here in the Lakes in July..... god awful month for photography...

When I finished my photography degree, I was a terrible photographer, but I had the background knowledge (in theory) to expose and compose correctly. Needless to say, I didn't realise I was terrible!
Eight years on, I am a full time photographer but have finally realised I'm still terrible ;-) This isn't a bad thing - it just means I strive to get better.
To corroborate Pete's comment on page one of the thread, if I could go back, I'd do a joint honours in business and photography, with the emphasis on business.

When I finished my photography degree, I was a terrible photographer, but I had the background knowledge (in theory) to expose and compose correctly. Needless to say, I didn't realise I was terrible!

Eight years on, I am a full time photographer but have finally realised I'm still terrible This isn't a bad thing - it just means I strive to get better.

To corroborate Pete's comment on page one of the thread, if I could go back, I'd do a joint honours in business and photography, with the emphasis on business.

I doubt people are going to shout from the EPZ rooftops that they make money from photography unless they are full time professionals. Remember, the man/woman from the HMR&C may well be reading this too!!

I doubt people are going to shout from the EPZ rooftops that they make money from photography unless they are full time professionals. Remember, the man/woman from the HMR&C may well be reading this too!!

[quote]I doubt people are going to shout from the EPZ rooftops that they make money from photography unless they are full time professionals. Remember, the man/woman from the HMR&C may well be reading this too!![/quote]
I'm prouder of the fact that the man from the HMRC has carried out an 8-month review of our business over the last 5 years and declared us to be 100% kosher than any of the images I've shot. Being a good business man in photography is far more important than being a good photographer.... but you have to be able to produce half-decent images too!

Quote:I doubt people are going to shout from the EPZ rooftops that they make money from photography unless they are full time professionals. Remember, the man/woman from the HMR&C may well be reading this too!!

I'm prouder of the fact that the man from the HMRC has carried out an 8-month review of our business over the last 5 years and declared us to be 100% kosher than any of the images I've shot. Being a good business man in photography is far more important than being a good photographer.... but you have to be able to produce half-decent images too!

Over the years I have done a lot of work for various magazines (photography and editorial writing), out of the eleven other paid regular contributors that I know personally, only two have ever been to college/uni and one of those was to do a non photographic subject. I have never been to college but have given numerous lectures on various aspects of photography, the question should not be one of are you a pro or not, but one of are you good enough to charge a commercial rate for your work? The rest is all about scale, can you get enough people to pay you to make it worthwhile either full time of part time. My personal view is that only a handfull of colleges in the UK cover the business end of photography as a profession, the rest are more art based than profession based. Pro, Artist, amateur, titles don't really matter, two things that matter are 1) Do you enjoy what you do? 2) if charging for your work, are both you and the client happy with the resulting images?

Over the years I have done a lot of work for various magazines (photography and editorial writing), out of the eleven other paid regular contributors that I know personally, only two have ever been to college/uni and one of those was to do a non photographic subject. I have never been to college but have given numerous lectures on various aspects of photography, the question should not be one of are you a pro or not, but one of are you good enough to charge a commercial rate for your work? The rest is all about scale, can you get enough people to pay you to make it worthwhile either full time of part time. My personal view is that only a handfull of colleges in the UK cover the business end of photography as a profession, the rest are more art based than profession based. Pro, Artist, amateur, titles don't really matter, two things that matter are 1) Do you enjoy what you do? 2) if charging for your work, are both you and the client happy with the resulting images?

[quote]did nothing to help me.[/quote]
It more than likely helped you to get your present job. Employers often look upon a degree as 'sound further education' and take it as proof that you will be an intelligent worker with a rounded education and the ability to learn and therefore to also progress.
Don't ever knock it.

Quote:did nothing to help me.

It more than likely helped you to get your present job. Employers often look upon a degree as 'sound further education' and take it as proof that you will be an intelligent worker with a rounded education and the ability to learn and therefore to also progress.

[quote] My personal view is that only a handfull of colleges in the UK cover the business end of photography as a profession, the rest are more art based than profession based. Pro, Artist, amateur, titles don't really matter, two things that matter are 1) Do you enjoy what you do? 2) if charging for your work, are both you and the client happy with the resulting images?[/quote]
Um, artists are (or can be) professional too. Although my art degrees (fine art and visual media/animation) weren't solely on photography, there was a large element of business training in both

Quote: My personal view is that only a handfull of colleges in the UK cover the business end of photography as a profession, the rest are more art based than profession based. Pro, Artist, amateur, titles don't really matter, two things that matter are 1) Do you enjoy what you do? 2) if charging for your work, are both you and the client happy with the resulting images?

Um, artists are (or can be) professional too. Although my art degrees (fine art and visual media/animation) weren't solely on photography, there was a large element of business training in both

You need to remember that, each year, the UK produces more photography graduates than there are registered professional photographers in the whole of the EU. Nationally, about 3% of these graduates find a long-term future in the industry.
The odds are against getting work and are even worse than for graduates in Theatre or Fine Art. Many photography degree courses just exist for the good of the college/university.
The situation is very different from a generation ago, when any institution wishing to run a degree or other high-level course had to prove demand and make a case to the Regional Advisory Council. Such are the benefits of de-regulation!

You need to remember that, each year, the UK produces more photography graduates than there are registered professional photographers in the whole of the EU. Nationally, about 3% of these graduates find a long-term future in the industry.

The odds are against getting work and are even worse than for graduates in Theatre or Fine Art. Many photography degree courses just exist for the good of the college/university.

The situation is very different from a generation ago, when any institution wishing to run a degree or other high-level course had to prove demand and make a case to the Regional Advisory Council. Such are the benefits of de-regulation!

If you are young, and want to go to uni, then a photography degree is fine (although I would suggest a business degree would be better for running a business)
However in this business, a certificate from a uni does not prove your photographic worth - your portfolio does.
I just learnt how to use the camera myself - with the aid of books, magazines, websites, camera club etc. In my opinion, the technical aspect of how to operate a camera is not that hard (and getting easier all the time) - its how you work with your subject which separates a good photographer from a great one.
As for pro/am - I am only a part time pro myself. I do it because I love doing it, and the fact it brings a little money in just gives me the excuse to do it some more. From my experience, there are lots who call themselves pro, but not many actually make a proper living from it.

If you are young, and want to go to uni, then a photography degree is fine (although I would suggest a business degree would be better for running a business)

However in this business, a certificate from a uni does not prove your photographic worth - your portfolio does.

I just learnt how to use the camera myself - with the aid of books, magazines, websites, camera club etc. In my opinion, the technical aspect of how to operate a camera is not that hard (and getting easier all the time) - its how you work with your subject which separates a good photographer from a great one.

As for pro/am - I am only a part time pro myself. I do it because I love doing it, and the fact it brings a little money in just gives me the excuse to do it some more. From my experience, there are lots who call themselves pro, but not many actually make a proper living from it.

One very good way to learn professional photography is to go for a Licentiate qualification with BIPP or MPA, making full use of the mentoring scheme and the seminar programme. You'd get access to real experts who can guide you on the right road.
The most valuable part of any qualification is the "working towards".
It's certainly more difficult to make a living from photography but by no means impossible.

One very good way to learn professional photography is to go for a Licentiate qualification with BIPP or MPA, making full use of the mentoring scheme and the seminar programme. You'd get access to real experts who can guide you on the right road.

The most valuable part of any qualification is the "working towards".

It's certainly more difficult to make a living from photography but by no means impossible.

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Good humour all round.
For the record, I am strictly amateur and just enjoy taking photographs for competitions and salons, etc.
But when I die, please don't let my wife sell my cameras and gear for the prices I told her they cost!

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Good humour all round.

For the record, I am strictly amateur and just enjoy taking photographs for competitions and salons, etc.

But when I die, please don't let my wife sell my cameras and gear for the prices I told her they cost!