what? 'windows people' are not saying this. charlie miller (who wrote the mac hackers handbook) is saying it. in regards to that specific type of security, yes it is less secure than vista/windows 7.

fortunately, macs small market share is its greatest strength against hackers. same reason why wordpress is constantly hacked due to its insane popularity versus other platforms like textpattern which is known for its security (but also near complete anonymity due to its lack of popularity).

Putting aside all the arguments about market share, I've had Macs since March 2000, and I've never had a virus or trojan.

I can often be found fixing a friend's Windows box because it's been infected, even though they have AVG anti-virus and SpyBot running.

I'm not saying this as a fanboi, it's simple. In my experience of the past ten years, Windows has had more problems that have adversely affected users and lost/corrupted their data. All my friends with Macs have not had any problems like that.

Yeah that's what I thought, common defense is there are no or little viruses for Mac... is that because they are pointless to try and hack or perhaps they are harder to hack? I can't believe it's ONLY because of the 90% share PCs have.

No machine connected to the internet is secure. None. How insecure they are at that point is irrelevant. Especially when talking about home and small office machines and OSs.

MicroSoft maintains government back-doors in their OSs. Apple may do the same but I've not heard about it.

Also I looked into the "Hacked in ten seconds" publishments from Charlie Miller when it first came out and it was ludicrous! The guy may belong to some made up organization or have started his own but he's a noob-quack! Of this I'm certain! None of what he said in that report makes much sense to those who understand even very simple networking concepts and OS X. So this, being from the same source, needs to be taken with a grain of salt. A rather large grain!

That means that if you're part of the NSA or whatever ABC agency MS caters to for it, you get full access to every file and encryption key stored on every PC connected to the internet. This probably includes cluster servers, MS based NAS, or even data-center systems and resources. It for sure includes all MS based SOHO systems.

Yeah that's what I thought, common defense is there are no or little viruses for Mac... is that because they are pointless to try and hack or perhaps they are harder to hack? I can't believe it's ONLY because of the 90% share PCs have.

Kind Regards

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95% and yes, it can be that. Why take the time to learn the vulnerabilities of an OS that is only on 5% of machines worldwide when you can write a virus and hit a potential 95%? E-peen counts for less than Mac users like to believe in the virus writing community. After all, when the hackers come together at conferences the machines they break fastest are Macs.

That means that if you're part of the NSA or whatever ABC agency MS caters to for it, you get full access to every file and encryption key stored on every PC connected to the internet. This probably includes cluster servers, MS based NAS, or even data-center systems and resources. It for sure includes all MS based SOHO systems.

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HAHA nice joke. Could you quote some source of this ? I mean some serious sources and not windows-sucks-unix-rocks.com

Staff Member

I don't know if OSX is truly less secure then windows, but one thing I think is true. Apple is relying on OSX's unix underpinnings for security to ensure that that OSX is actually secure.

For instance, its been reported that that firmware on the apple keyboard is unencrypted and a hacker can attach a malware program that could update the keyboard to send keystrokes. Engadget reported this earlier this year.

Safari is usually the first one to fall in hacker contests typically in minutes if not seconds.

Apple at times shows itself to be arrogant, but they cannot be so arrogant in the security arena, but rather proactive.

Does this mean I run virus software or lose sleep over it, no (at least not yet). I don't do things that put me in the high risk category and so far there's little evidence of any actual virus/malware issues currently on OSX

Safari is usually the first one to fall in hacker contests typically in minutes if not seconds.

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Yes... but the exploit was researched months before the event... not made up in seconds.
Other thing is every hacker goes for a MAC rather than a DELL... what would you go for if they give you that machine after?

Fernandes published his discovery, touching off a flurry of speculation and development of numerous conspiracytheories. If the private half of that key were actually owned by the United States National Security Agency, the NSA (as suggested by the name), it would allow that intelligence agency to subvert any Windows user's security.

If you don't frequent porn, gambling or hacker sites, you only install software from legitimate, reputable sources, you think twice before entering your administrator password and you use your Mac like the vast majority of users, your chances of being hacked or installing a trojan are slim to none.

Like i said... they will deny and try to hide everything... but the fact remains, every windows goes to NSA before the release.
I have no other proof, but this is strange enough for me.

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Maybe its because each new MS release actually has a potential effect on national security since all government departments use MSOS. It kinda makes sense for someone to check it out prior to release donchyathink?

Can you cite any references to back up that claim. Its not that I don't believe you but these types of statements can run through the internet with no basis of truth, just rumor.

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Not just rumor! MIT proves this with every new release. I haven't followed it since Vista Ultimate 64 (so I dunno about Win7 - I'm SURE it's the same thing!). It started with Win95 IIRC. Microsoft even admitted it for one of their OS's - I forget which. This is very common knowledge in real security circles in academia. I doubt Charlie Miller (LOL!!!) would have a clue. According to MIT the backdoors take on several different forms - some more detectable than others.

You can easily verify this yourself just by searching in Google. So unless your browser is busted or something don't waste my time asking for proof and details. Rather just type in something like: "government backdoor in Microsoft windows" or "NSA backdoor in Windows" and read it for yourself.

Staff Member

You can easily verify this yourself just by searching in Google. So unless your browser is busted or something don't waste my time asking for proof and details. Rather just type in something like: "government backdoor in Microsoft windows" and read it for yourself.

You were the one making the claims about the back door, not me, I have no need to google it. Wild claims as such should be backed up. Besides a few bloggers accusations doesn't amount to proof. Hey, if you want to believe it, that's fine. I'm no MS fan boy, heck I don't even have windows on my mac, but to say they're in cahoots with the government is plain crazy.

Just a quick look at your computer management console, users and groups on windows would be enough...
Why do you need so many user groups or SUPPORT_bla.bla accounts?

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Well, that would be more of a front door. I dunno about those. There may or may not be. There are backdoors though. And I dunno if Apple plays the same game or not. I reckon they do. MS gets publicly busted for it though and has even officially admitted to some of it.

I guess if you're willing and able to BE the entire communication stack in OX S like certain factions of academia do to windows then you'll have a pretty good start at knowing or at least opinionating. I haven't done this to any OS other than AmigaOS and I haven't read anything specific about OS X so I can't really comment.

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