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Originally posted by BMBender

Actually I was talking about the ascetics graphics present: pleasing, indifferent, displeasing, actively loathe if you actually read em. And no it doesn't change anything there actually IS a pretty big difference. You can have a graphically well done "cartoon" or' "realistic model" that can still be pleasing or actively revolting while in it self remaining well designed.

hmm let me try this as an example:

Have you or do you know anyone who spent hours/days in a character creator/editor, tailor, or spent 1/2 a day just dyeing crap? All those mechanics are SPECIFICLLY designed to appeal to certain types of personalities.

Another pretty much the ENTIRE simulation genre revolves around people who want both ascetically pleasing(in the case of simulations accurate (usually{but not always} = pleasing) and mechanically sound content.

I realize that the mmo genre as a whole has entered a period of mediocrity either in ascetics; everyone does big shoulders, bright colors, physically improbable proportions these days, one game often looks like another; or mechanically tepid; oh you wanted an endgame? sorry we don't have the voice overs for it. But that does not mean I have to settle, there are more than enough games out there who want my $ by offering both. If that means I never buy/play another subpar mmo? /shrugs can't say I'm really concerned. It's not like there aren't already a dozen or more already out there just like it, no matter how "new and unique it is"

If it sounds like I set the bar higher for mmos it's because I do. They ask for a higher price point, that's my criteria for what they are asking.

If nothing else my habits certainly guarded me well from investing anything in the TORtanic, Failhammer, ect those games were never on my radar.

EDIT: Ack and completely forget my last point

the reason my 1st pas/fail point on a prospective game is how I find it ascetically: That's the ONE THING IN THE ENTIRE GAME THAT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE UNCHANGED love/hate or indifferent it aint going away.

Mechanics on the other hand are a dime a dozen at launch, give it 6mo. 5-10% of em will be in "revision" 1 yr 1/2 the game functions differently to one degree or anther. 5yr? I don't think there is a single mmo ever that has even one single mechanic. that stayed completely untouched.

Ok, I understand what you mean. However, I still don't see how that could be used as an only factor. I know a lot of people who will not watch anime specifically because it's anime, a cartoon and they do not like how it looks. However, I always question what about the stories? However, everyone always acts stubborn and says they will never watch it simply because they don't like how it looks.

Sorry but that is borderline stupid to me and makes no sense at all. It be different if that was all it was about, but that isn't even remotely the case. You pretty much are ignoring every other factor just because you dislike 1. When you judge something, I try to consider all factors and never stop based on my preference of how something looks, because looks can be very deceiving.

I can't tell you how many times, I didn't watch an anime because it looked retarded. Then I get recommended to watch it. Eventually I decide to give it a shot, and find out it's actually pretty darn good. After this happened so many times, I learned not to do that anymore. No matter how stupid something looks to me, doesn't mean it is.

I did that with Minecraft as well. Now I play it all the time lol, and admitted that it's actually a pretty darn good game. Even though I hate the aesthetics of it. But I was easily able to get passed it after giving it some time.

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Originally posted by Brabbit1987

Originally posted by BMBender

Actually I was talking about the ascetics graphics present: pleasing, indifferent, displeasing, actively loathe if you actually read em. And no it doesn't change anything there actually IS a pretty big difference. You can have a graphically well done "cartoon" or' "realistic model" that can still be pleasing or actively revolting while in it self remaining well designed.

hmm let me try this as an example:

Have you or do you know anyone who spent hours/days in a character creator/editor, tailor, or spent 1/2 a day just dyeing crap? All those mechanics are SPECIFICLLY designed to appeal to certain types of personalities.

Another pretty much the ENTIRE simulation genre revolves around people who want both ascetically pleasing(in the case of simulations accurate (usually{but not always} = pleasing) and mechanically sound content.

I realize that the mmo genre as a whole has entered a period of mediocrity either in ascetics; everyone does big shoulders, bright colors, physically improbable proportions these days, one game often looks like another; or mechanically tepid; oh you wanted an endgame? sorry we don't have the voice overs for it. But that does not mean I have to settle, there are more than enough games out there who want my $ by offering both. If that means I never buy/play another subpar mmo? /shrugs can't say I'm really concerned. It's not like there aren't already a dozen or more already out there just like it, no matter how "new and unique it is"

If it sounds like I set the bar higher for mmos it's because I do. They ask for a higher price point, that's my criteria for what they are asking.

If nothing else my habits certainly guarded me well from investing anything in the TORtanic, Failhammer, ect those games were never on my radar.

EDIT: Ack and completely forget my last point

the reason my 1st pas/fail point on a prospective game is how I find it ascetically: That's the ONE THING IN THE ENTIRE GAME THAT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE UNCHANGED love/hate or indifferent it aint going away.

Mechanics on the other hand are a dime a dozen at launch, give it 6mo. 5-10% of em will be in "revision" 1 yr 1/2 the game functions differently to one degree or anther. 5yr? I don't think there is a single mmo ever that has even one single mechanic. that stayed completely untouched.

Ok, I understand what you mean. However, I still don't see how that could be used as an only factor. I know a lot of people who will not watch anime specifically because it's anime, a cartoon and they do not like how it looks. However, I always question what about the stories? However, everyone always acts stubborn and says they will never watch it simply because they don't like how it looks.

Sorry but that is borderline stupid to me and makes no sense at all. It be different if that was all it was about, but that isn't even remotely the case. You pretty much are ignoring every other factor just because you dislike 1. When U judge something, I try to consider all factors and never stop based on my preference of how something looks, because looks can be very deceiving.

I can't tell you how many times, I didn't watch an anime because it looked retarded. Then I get recommended to watch it. Eventually I decide to give it a shot, and find out it's actually pretty darn good. After this happened so many times, I learned not to do that anymore. No matter how stupid something looks to me, doesn't mean it is.

I did that with Minecraft as well. Now I play it all the time lol, and admited that it's actually a pretty darn good game. Even though I hate the asthetics of it. But I was easily able to get passed it after giving it some time.

I did not say ONLY I SAID FIRST sigh you honestly think any moron would only have one criteria for an mmo? you have to prioritize the list somehow and the 1st hurdle to sell me your crap game is to get me interested in how it looks. Then we'll talk about how it feels, then playing. If you don't agree with my priorities that's cool, you don't buy my games either.

Me I tried watching Anime( it was the alternative to CNN and/orNBC at the squadron) several different artists, flavors, and story lines. I ended up watching CNN. I'm not saying cartoons are BAD, i'm saying I DISLIKE them ENOUGH that they ARE AN ACTIVE DETRACTOR to the game for me. Hell I never got into the Simpsons or B&B either(sober) Next I guess it'll be my fault I prefer the color Cyan over Maroon as well or blue over green.

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The stylized graphics in EQNext allow for the constructable / destructable world, among other things. I'll take those new features over the same ancient themepark crap from the likes of ESO any day.

Not me. EQN is wandering way to far from the rpg genre and crossing over. IMHO computers took board games and transferred them into a more user friendly environment. At it's foundation is role playing. Being able to tear the ground up to move to another level, or discover something is way beyond the realm of what I consider an immersive world.

Give me the old EQ and/or the new ESO, over EQN for a true fantasy game any day. If I want spinning warriors tearing up buildings I will simply play my son's Skylanders with him.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

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Again with the graphics, yes yes they are amazing. As long as the game play is nice and the game doesn't take 20 hours to complete, I'll be a happy camper. If graphics made a MMO, WoW would of been dead 5 years ago. So PLEASE MTV, errr, I mean MMORPG.COM, stop with the graphics!

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Originally posted by LeGrosGamerAgain with the graphics, yes yes they are amazing. As long as the game play is nice and the game doesn't take 20 hours to complete, I'll be a happy camper. If graphics made a MMO, WoW would of been dead 5 years ago. So PLEASE MTV, errr, I mean MMORPG.COM, stop with the graphics!

Are they? or were those CGI's that were supposed to be from game play but are artist generated. The videos I have seen look horrible, so far, but I will hold my judgment until I can see the game up close and personal.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

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I'm going to play both and the one I have the most fun in will be the one I stick with. That or until I get burned out on one then will go back to the other. Then there is always the chance I'll be playing a new game that launches then I won't be playing either one.

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Lol, besides talking about "mechanics" in regards to an mmo is a joke to begin with. Even the most 1/2 sed simulator(any type) is more "mechanically" mature robust and stable than any of the modern AAA mmo's. Most people think group finder is a mechanic for **** sake. Once upon a time mmo's innovated and created entirely new types and ways to play. Now they just get kicked in the jimmy by the market if they try. The few who even bother anymore only go 1/2 way and already have the build ready to go to modify/replace the "new innovation" when the inevitable backlash hits. And there WILL be a backlash, always is now that mmo's try to grab too much market share among customers who have completely differing preferences. PVE/PVP SOLO/GROUP CRAFT/SCREW CRAFTING LOVE ALTING/HATE ALTING RAIDERS/SMALL GROUPERS OCD ORGANIZERS/NERVER CAN FIND ANYTHINGERS ROLEPLAYERS/GRIEFERS SELF RELIANT/NEED A QUEST TRACKER VOICE ACTING/SHE SOUNDS GAY GROUP VOICE/SHUTUP CARTOONISH ART/REALISTIC ART LIVES WITH MOM/OWNS A SMALL BUISNESS WANTS A GROUPFINDER/WILL SHOOT THE DEV IF PUTS IN GROUP FINDER NEEDS MORE REALISIM/NEEDS LESS REALISM TRUE ECONOMIC FREEDOM/I"M BEING OPPRESSED

there is no way in hell as the target audience for mmo's expands that "mechanics" will ever be more than a rubber stamp ready to be replaced. simply put if it's simple enough and neutral enough to make it through the ringer of the disparate target audience iit will also be boring.

When someone picks a demographic and sticks with it call me

I think the last mmo that was unafraid to be niche was EVE? Too bad I'm not their demographic But kudos to CCP for having a pair. Along with being the only mmo that still has an upward population trend.

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Originally posted by BMBender

Originally posted by Brabbit1987

Originally posted by BMBender

Actually I was talking about the ascetics graphics present: pleasing, indifferent, displeasing, actively loathe if you actually read em. And no it doesn't change anything there actually IS a pretty big difference. You can have a graphically well done "cartoon" or' "realistic model" that can still be pleasing or actively revolting while in it self remaining well designed.

hmm let me try this as an example:

Have you or do you know anyone who spent hours/days in a character creator/editor, tailor, or spent 1/2 a day just dyeing crap? All those mechanics are SPECIFICLLY designed to appeal to certain types of personalities.

Another pretty much the ENTIRE simulation genre revolves around people who want both ascetically pleasing(in the case of simulations accurate (usually{but not always} = pleasing) and mechanically sound content.

I realize that the mmo genre as a whole has entered a period of mediocrity either in ascetics; everyone does big shoulders, bright colors, physically improbable proportions these days, one game often looks like another; or mechanically tepid; oh you wanted an endgame? sorry we don't have the voice overs for it. But that does not mean I have to settle, there are more than enough games out there who want my $ by offering both. If that means I never buy/play another subpar mmo? /shrugs can't say I'm really concerned. It's not like there aren't already a dozen or more already out there just like it, no matter how "new and unique it is"

If it sounds like I set the bar higher for mmos it's because I do. They ask for a higher price point, that's my criteria for what they are asking.

If nothing else my habits certainly guarded me well from investing anything in the TORtanic, Failhammer, ect those games were never on my radar.

EDIT: Ack and completely forget my last point

the reason my 1st pas/fail point on a prospective game is how I find it ascetically: That's the ONE THING IN THE ENTIRE GAME THAT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE UNCHANGED love/hate or indifferent it aint going away.

Mechanics on the other hand are a dime a dozen at launch, give it 6mo. 5-10% of em will be in "revision" 1 yr 1/2 the game functions differently to one degree or anther. 5yr? I don't think there is a single mmo ever that has even one single mechanic. that stayed completely untouched.

Ok, I understand what you mean. However, I still don't see how that could be used as an only factor. I know a lot of people who will not watch anime specifically because it's anime, a cartoon and they do not like how it looks. However, I always question what about the stories? However, everyone always acts stubborn and says they will never watch it simply because they don't like how it looks.

Sorry but that is borderline stupid to me and makes no sense at all. It be different if that was all it was about, but that isn't even remotely the case. You pretty much are ignoring every other factor just because you dislike 1. When U judge something, I try to consider all factors and never stop based on my preference of how something looks, because looks can be very deceiving.

I can't tell you how many times, I didn't watch an anime because it looked retarded. Then I get recommended to watch it. Eventually I decide to give it a shot, and find out it's actually pretty darn good. After this happened so many times, I learned not to do that anymore. No matter how stupid something looks to me, doesn't mean it is.

I did that with Minecraft as well. Now I play it all the time lol, and admited that it's actually a pretty darn good game. Even though I hate the asthetics of it. But I was easily able to get passed it after giving it some time.

I did not say ONLY I SAID FIRST sigh you honestly think any moron would only have one criteria for an mmo? you have to prioritize the list somehow and the 1st hurdle to sell me your crap game is to get me interested in how it looks. Then we'll talk about how it feels, then playing. If you don't agree with my priorities that's cool, you don't buy my games either.

Me I tried watching Anime( it was the alternative to CNN and/orNBC at the squadron) several different artists, flavors, and story lines. I ended up watching CNN. I'm not saying cartoons are BAD, i'm saying I DISLIKE them ENOUGH that they ARE AN ACTIVE DETRACTOR to the game for me. Hell I never got into the Simpsons or B&B either(sober) Next I guess it'll be my fault I prefer the color Cyan over Maroon as well or blue over green.

Yes it's all your fault >.>, how dare you like Cyan over Maroon! lol, I am kidding of course.

But yep, I get what you mean now I suppose. When you put it that way, I think just about everyones first hurdle is looks since that is the first thing anyone ever tends to be able to judge before release. See I thought you where saying if the looks are not up to par, you don't even bother looking at anything else after that.

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Originally posted by Brabbit1987

Originally posted by BMBender

Originally posted by Brabbit1987

Originally posted by BMBender

Actually I was talking about the ascetics graphics present: pleasing, indifferent, displeasing, actively loathe if you actually read em. And no it doesn't change anything there actually IS a pretty big difference. You can have a graphically well done "cartoon" or' "realistic model" that can still be pleasing or actively revolting while in it self remaining well designed.

hmm let me try this as an example:

Have you or do you know anyone who spent hours/days in a character creator/editor, tailor, or spent 1/2 a day just dyeing crap? All those mechanics are SPECIFICLLY designed to appeal to certain types of personalities.

Another pretty much the ENTIRE simulation genre revolves around people who want both ascetically pleasing(in the case of simulations accurate (usually{but not always} = pleasing) and mechanically sound content.

I realize that the mmo genre as a whole has entered a period of mediocrity either in ascetics; everyone does big shoulders, bright colors, physically improbable proportions these days, one game often looks like another; or mechanically tepid; oh you wanted an endgame? sorry we don't have the voice overs for it. But that does not mean I have to settle, there are more than enough games out there who want my $ by offering both. If that means I never buy/play another subpar mmo? /shrugs can't say I'm really concerned. It's not like there aren't already a dozen or more already out there just like it, no matter how "new and unique it is"

If it sounds like I set the bar higher for mmos it's because I do. They ask for a higher price point, that's my criteria for what they are asking.

If nothing else my habits certainly guarded me well from investing anything in the TORtanic, Failhammer, ect those games were never on my radar.

EDIT: Ack and completely forget my last point

the reason my 1st pas/fail point on a prospective game is how I find it ascetically: That's the ONE THING IN THE ENTIRE GAME THAT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE UNCHANGED love/hate or indifferent it aint going away.

Mechanics on the other hand are a dime a dozen at launch, give it 6mo. 5-10% of em will be in "revision" 1 yr 1/2 the game functions differently to one degree or anther. 5yr? I don't think there is a single mmo ever that has even one single mechanic. that stayed completely untouched.

Ok, I understand what you mean. However, I still don't see how that could be used as an only factor. I know a lot of people who will not watch anime specifically because it's anime, a cartoon and they do not like how it looks. However, I always question what about the stories? However, everyone always acts stubborn and says they will never watch it simply because they don't like how it looks.

Sorry but that is borderline stupid to me and makes no sense at all. It be different if that was all it was about, but that isn't even remotely the case. You pretty much are ignoring every other factor just because you dislike 1. When U judge something, I try to consider all factors and never stop based on my preference of how something looks, because looks can be very deceiving.

I can't tell you how many times, I didn't watch an anime because it looked retarded. Then I get recommended to watch it. Eventually I decide to give it a shot, and find out it's actually pretty darn good. After this happened so many times, I learned not to do that anymore. No matter how stupid something looks to me, doesn't mean it is.

I did that with Minecraft as well. Now I play it all the time lol, and admited that it's actually a pretty darn good game. Even though I hate the asthetics of it. But I was easily able to get passed it after giving it some time.

I did not say ONLY I SAID FIRST sigh you honestly think any moron would only have one criteria for an mmo? you have to prioritize the list somehow and the 1st hurdle to sell me your crap game is to get me interested in how it looks. Then we'll talk about how it feels, then playing. If you don't agree with my priorities that's cool, you don't buy my games either.

Me I tried watching Anime( it was the alternative to CNN and/orNBC at the squadron) several different artists, flavors, and story lines. I ended up watching CNN. I'm not saying cartoons are BAD, i'm saying I DISLIKE them ENOUGH that they ARE AN ACTIVE DETRACTOR to the game for me. Hell I never got into the Simpsons or B&B either(sober) Next I guess it'll be my fault I prefer the color Cyan over Maroon as well or blue over green.

Yes it's all your fault >.>, how dare you like Cyan over Maroon! lol, I am kidding of course.

But yep, I get what you mean now I suppose. When you put it that way, I think just about everyones first hurdle is looks since that is the first thing anyone ever tends to be able to judge before release. See I thought you where saying if the looks are not up to par, you don't even bother looking at anything else after that.

Depends how bad she looks and how much I've had or do you mean the game?

Seriously though these days no that's about it. If I feel it looks like crap I probably won't give it a second look. Welcome to a flooded market where every 2 bit developer and publisher ; reviewer and gaming rag has overhyped their smelly crap to the point that the only objective criteria is how it looks. Any POS dev/pub/market dept can tell me we're making the most involved and innovative mechanics since the On?oFF button. That and a dollar might get me a cup of coffee. The market is so flooded with crap it's simply not worth my time to dig through it to find something that MIGHT be passable. If you couldn't grab me the first time sorry and thanks for playing.

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Game looks good, but doesn't entice everyone. On the other hand EQN features looking amazing, but the games art style looks like total shit. The character models look horrendous at best. Hopefully it looks better that it has been showcases thus far, because it is just plain bad looking.

Part of the reason is because EQ has always been more of a realistic looking game. So to introduce this style just does not sit well.

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Originally posted by kilun

Game looks good, but doesn't entice everyone. On the other hand EQN features looking amazing, but the games art style looks like total shit. The character models look horrendous at best. Hopefully it looks better that it has been showcases thus far, because it is just plain bad looking.

Part of the reason is because EQ has always been more of a realistic looking game. So to introduce this style just does not sit well.

yea this is why I spend most of my time in simulators and quality offline games these days. I think the last mmo I actually got excited about was LOTRO due to the license? The last one I actually followed the development on? Don't even remember. The whole genre makes me want to yawn.

Actually I was talking about the ascetics graphics present: pleasing, indifferent, displeasing, actively loathe if you actually read em. And no it doesn't change anything there actually IS a pretty big difference. You can have a graphically well done "cartoon" or' "realistic model" that can still be pleasing or actively revolting while in it self remaining well designed.

hmm let me try this as an example:

Have you or do you know anyone who spent hours/days in a character creator/editor, tailor, or spent 1/2 a day just dyeing crap? All those mechanics are SPECIFICLLY designed to appeal to certain types of personalities.

Another pretty much the ENTIRE simulation genre revolves around people who want both ascetically pleasing(in the case of simulations accurate (usually{but not always} = pleasing) and mechanically sound content.

I realize that the mmo genre as a whole has entered a period of mediocrity either in ascetics; everyone does big shoulders, bright colors, physically improbable proportions these days, one game often looks like another; or mechanically tepid; oh you wanted an endgame? sorry we don't have the voice overs for it. But that does not mean I have to settle, there are more than enough games out there who want my $ by offering both. If that means I never buy/play another subpar mmo? /shrugs can't say I'm really concerned. It's not like there aren't already a dozen or more already out there just like it, no matter how "new and unique it is"

If it sounds like I set the bar higher for mmos it's because I do. They ask for a higher price point, that's my criteria for what they are asking.

If nothing else my habits certainly guarded me well from investing anything in the TORtanic, Failhammer, ect those games were never on my radar.

EDIT: Ack and completely forget my last point

the reason my 1st pas/fail point on a prospective game is how I find it ascetically: That's the ONE THING IN THE ENTIRE GAME THAT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE UNCHANGED love/hate or indifferent it aint going away.

Mechanics on the other hand are a dime a dozen at launch, give it 6mo. 5-10% of em will be in "revision" 1 yr 1/2 the game functions differently to one degree or anther. 5yr? I don't think there is a single mmo ever that has even one single mechanic. that stayed completely untouched.

Ok, I understand what you mean. However, I still don't see how that could be used as an only factor. I know a lot of people who will not watch anime specifically because it's anime, a cartoon and they do not like how it looks. However, I always question what about the stories? However, everyone always acts stubborn and says they will never watch it simply because they don't like how it looks.

Sorry but that is borderline stupid to me and makes no sense at all. It be different if that was all it was about, but that isn't even remotely the case. You pretty much are ignoring every other factor just because you dislike 1. When U judge something, I try to consider all factors and never stop based on my preference of how something looks, because looks can be very deceiving.

I can't tell you how many times, I didn't watch an anime because it looked retarded. Then I get recommended to watch it. Eventually I decide to give it a shot, and find out it's actually pretty darn good. After this happened so many times, I learned not to do that anymore. No matter how stupid something looks to me, doesn't mean it is.

I did that with Minecraft as well. Now I play it all the time lol, and admited that it's actually a pretty darn good game. Even though I hate the asthetics of it. But I was easily able to get passed it after giving it some time.

I did not say ONLY I SAID FIRST sigh you honestly think any moron would only have one criteria for an mmo? you have to prioritize the list somehow and the 1st hurdle to sell me your crap game is to get me interested in how it looks. Then we'll talk about how it feels, then playing. If you don't agree with my priorities that's cool, you don't buy my games either.

Me I tried watching Anime( it was the alternative to CNN and/orNBC at the squadron) several different artists, flavors, and story lines. I ended up watching CNN. I'm not saying cartoons are BAD, i'm saying I DISLIKE them ENOUGH that they ARE AN ACTIVE DETRACTOR to the game for me. Hell I never got into the Simpsons or B&B either(sober) Next I guess it'll be my fault I prefer the color Cyan over Maroon as well or blue over green.

Yes it's all your fault >.>, how dare you like Cyan over Maroon! lol, I am kidding of course.

But yep, I get what you mean now I suppose. When you put it that way, I think just about everyones first hurdle is looks since that is the first thing anyone ever tends to be able to judge before release. See I thought you where saying if the looks are not up to par, you don't even bother looking at anything else after that.

Depends how bad she looks and how much I've had or do you mean the game?

Seriously though these days no that's about it. If I feel it looks like crap I probably won't give it a second look. Welcome to a flooded market where every 2 bit developer and publisher ; reviewer and gaming rag has overhyped their smelly crap to the point that the only objective criteria is how it looks. Any POS dev/pub/market dept can tell me we're making the most involved and innovative mechanics since the On?oFF button. That and a dollar might get me a cup of coffee. The market is so flooded with crap it's simply not worth my time to dig through it to find something that MIGHT be passable. If you couldn't grab me the first time sorry and thanks for playing.

lol not talking about girls XD, talking about the games.

I understand what you mean, I don't mind searching . As I said, you sometimes find a gem.

Here is the thing I do not understand though. EQN graphics are not THAT bad. Sure I can understand one may not like how it looks, but I don't understand how you could just look passed everything else.

The ideas they brought to the table are really interesting, and I really do not get why it doesn't at least peak your interest. The only real question is if they can actually pull off everything they said. I am a bit of a skeptic in that area, but I certainly do not discount everything about a game simply because the looks or graphics are crap in my eyes.

The reason I say this is because, while you talked about how you are stuck with the looks of the game, I do have to point out that the mechanics are the most important part either way. The graphics or looks isn't what makes the game fun to play. Really the graphics and looks of a game should be on the back burner when it comes to actually judging a game. It's so unimportant really when it comes to the purpose of what a video game is.

The looks and graphics are the easiest to judge, I realize that, but it's really a very poor way to do it because you can very easily skip over a great game that way. This could also easily give you a false sense of the current quality of video games.

I will always fall back on the example of Minecraft. Not the best when it comes to looks, but the gameplay is great. Though I have a feeling you never played it. Either that, or maybe not interested in the gameplay itself.

If you do like minecraft, then that really confuses me even more since it wouldn't follow your standards. Though I suppose it could be a case by case thing.

Actually I was talking about the ascetics graphics present: pleasing, indifferent, displeasing, actively loathe if you actually read em. And no it doesn't change anything there actually IS a pretty big difference. You can have a graphically well done "cartoon" or' "realistic model" that can still be pleasing or actively revolting while in it self remaining well designed.

hmm let me try this as an example:

Have you or do you know anyone who spent hours/days in a character creator/editor, tailor, or spent 1/2 a day just dyeing crap? All those mechanics are SPECIFICLLY designed to appeal to certain types of personalities.

Another pretty much the ENTIRE simulation genre revolves around people who want both ascetically pleasing(in the case of simulations accurate (usually{but not always} = pleasing) and mechanically sound content.

I realize that the mmo genre as a whole has entered a period of mediocrity either in ascetics; everyone does big shoulders, bright colors, physically improbable proportions these days, one game often looks like another; or mechanically tepid; oh you wanted an endgame? sorry we don't have the voice overs for it. But that does not mean I have to settle, there are more than enough games out there who want my $ by offering both. If that means I never buy/play another subpar mmo? /shrugs can't say I'm really concerned. It's not like there aren't already a dozen or more already out there just like it, no matter how "new and unique it is"

If it sounds like I set the bar higher for mmos it's because I do. They ask for a higher price point, that's my criteria for what they are asking.

If nothing else my habits certainly guarded me well from investing anything in the TORtanic, Failhammer, ect those games were never on my radar.

EDIT: Ack and completely forget my last point

the reason my 1st pas/fail point on a prospective game is how I find it ascetically: That's the ONE THING IN THE ENTIRE GAME THAT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE UNCHANGED love/hate or indifferent it aint going away.

Mechanics on the other hand are a dime a dozen at launch, give it 6mo. 5-10% of em will be in "revision" 1 yr 1/2 the game functions differently to one degree or anther. 5yr? I don't think there is a single mmo ever that has even one single mechanic. that stayed completely untouched.

Ok, I understand what you mean. However, I still don't see how that could be used as an only factor. I know a lot of people who will not watch anime specifically because it's anime, a cartoon and they do not like how it looks. However, I always question what about the stories? However, everyone always acts stubborn and says they will never watch it simply because they don't like how it looks.

Sorry but that is borderline stupid to me and makes no sense at all. It be different if that was all it was about, but that isn't even remotely the case. You pretty much are ignoring every other factor just because you dislike 1. When U judge something, I try to consider all factors and never stop based on my preference of how something looks, because looks can be very deceiving.

I can't tell you how many times, I didn't watch an anime because it looked retarded. Then I get recommended to watch it. Eventually I decide to give it a shot, and find out it's actually pretty darn good. After this happened so many times, I learned not to do that anymore. No matter how stupid something looks to me, doesn't mean it is.

I did that with Minecraft as well. Now I play it all the time lol, and admited that it's actually a pretty darn good game. Even though I hate the asthetics of it. But I was easily able to get passed it after giving it some time.

I did not say ONLY I SAID FIRST sigh you honestly think any moron would only have one criteria for an mmo? you have to prioritize the list somehow and the 1st hurdle to sell me your crap game is to get me interested in how it looks. Then we'll talk about how it feels, then playing. If you don't agree with my priorities that's cool, you don't buy my games either.

Me I tried watching Anime( it was the alternative to CNN and/orNBC at the squadron) several different artists, flavors, and story lines. I ended up watching CNN. I'm not saying cartoons are BAD, i'm saying I DISLIKE them ENOUGH that they ARE AN ACTIVE DETRACTOR to the game for me. Hell I never got into the Simpsons or B&B either(sober) Next I guess it'll be my fault I prefer the color Cyan over Maroon as well or blue over green.

Yes it's all your fault >.>, how dare you like Cyan over Maroon! lol, I am kidding of course.

But yep, I get what you mean now I suppose. When you put it that way, I think just about everyones first hurdle is looks since that is the first thing anyone ever tends to be able to judge before release. See I thought you where saying if the looks are not up to par, you don't even bother looking at anything else after that.

Depends how bad she looks and how much I've had or do you mean the game?

Seriously though these days no that's about it. If I feel it looks like crap I probably won't give it a second look. Welcome to a flooded market where every 2 bit developer and publisher ; reviewer and gaming rag has overhyped their smelly crap to the point that the only objective criteria is how it looks. Any POS dev/pub/market dept can tell me we're making the most involved and innovative mechanics since the On?oFF button. That and a dollar might get me a cup of coffee. The market is so flooded with crap it's simply not worth my time to dig through it to find something that MIGHT be passable. If you couldn't grab me the first time sorry and thanks for playing.

lol not talking about girls XD, talking about the games.

I understand what you mean, I don't mind searching . As I said, you sometimes find a gem.

Here is the thing I do not understand though. EQN graphics are not THAT bad. Sure I can understand one may not like how it looks, but I don't understand how you could just look passed everything else.

The ideas they brought to the table are really interesting, and I really do not get why it doesn't at least peak your interest. The only real question is if they can actually pull off everything they said. I am a bit of a skeptic in that area, but I certainly do not discount everything about a game simply because the looks or graphics are crap in my eyes.

The reason I say this is because, while you talked about how you are stuck with the looks of the game, I do have to point out that the mechanics are the most important part either way. The graphics or looks isn't what makes the game fun to play. Really the graphics and looks of a game should be on the back burner when it comes to actually judging a game. It's so unimportant really when it comes to the purpose of what a video game is.

The looks and graphics are the easiest to judge, I realize that, but it's really a very poor way to do it because you can very easily skip over a great game that way. This could also easily give you a false sense of the current quality of video games.

I will always fall back on the example of Minecraft. Not the best when it comes to looks, but the gameplay is great. Though I have a feeling you never played it. Either that, or maybe not interested in the gameplay itself.

If you do like minecraft, then that really confuses me even more since it wouldn't follow your standards. Though I suppose it could be a case by case thing.

yea but you also downplay the fact that ALL mechanics are subject to change, usually quite often. As time goes on the game begins to play significantly different than at launch. By the 5th year you could call it another name entirely and no one would raise an eyebrow except a few "LORE PUREISTS". The larger the target audience the quicker whatever mechanic has everyone so hot and bothered will change. It happens every single game. It's so regular you could set your watch by it.

Gameply. I prefer realistic sims (too bad EVE doesn't req a joystick) mmo developers gave up on targeting demographics years ago, there is no more niche. And as long as they keep chasing EVERYBODY down and trying to cater

COMPLETELY DISSIMILAR market makeup at the same time. They will please NOBODY ALL THE TIME and NONE ALL THE TIME. And they are all doing this while the entire market shrinks as more people throw their 2 bit game into an increasingly marginal market.

How a game looks (and by that I mean the ascetic ambience) is the only thing that holds the storyline, objectives desired of "mechanics", conceptual theme, and common reference point together long enough to actually survive healthily the transfer from creation dev team to live team...2nd team.....3rd team(most mmos are footnotes by this point) ect ect. It is the only constant. Even developers intent changes.

Did you put together this masterpiece of thought and word all by yourself or did you have help?

JD & Coke

I totally believe you. :-)

Well it was better than the Nobody all the time None of the time. I gave myself a headache with that one. Then the whole editing debacle I think most of the words are more or less where they were. So I just /sniped the correction into a new post.....I do beilive it's last call.