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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

People said last year's draft was one of the weakest in memory as well, yet look at how many rookies lit up the NFL out of that supposedly "weak" class. There's no prospect who's felt to be similar to AJ Green RIGHT NOW, certainly, but what difference does that make? Green isn't in this draft. The point I was trying to make earlier is that teams will try to find the NEXT AJ Green, and they will. It just might not be a prospect with all the hype that Green had.

People said the 2010 draft was one of the strongest of all time, yet go back and look at the first 2 rounds and see how many players busted. Suh and McCoy were both seen as future HOFers, neither one of them lived up to their hype. Sam Bradford is one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL. Eric Berry (the next Ed Reed) has underwhelmed. Rolando McClain might be out of football next year. And so on and so on...

The quality of a given draft is always relative and can't really be assessed a lot of the time until several years down the road. You can always say "so and so isn't worthy of a top 10 pick," but if a given player is one of the 10 best talents in the class then why the hell not?

With the rookie wage scale most of the downside of missing on a pick is now pretty much gone. Just pick the best player available that makes sense for your team, upgrade your overall talent level whenever possible, and you'll do fine.

I did say Just looking at it going in, and I'm only talking about pre draft grades. I didn't say, anything like, this draft sucks and no good players are coming out of it.

Who knows 3 years from now.

I am only saying looking at it going in...before anybody knows what any of these guys do in the league, it looks like a very poor draft...I certainly would have taken last years draft going in over this one...in regards to high end talent, the first 2 guys were 2 of the best QB's to come out in the last decade as far as pre draft grades.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

People said last year's draft was one of the weakest in memory as well, yet look at how many rookies lit up the NFL out of that supposedly "weak" class. There's no prospect who's felt to be similar to AJ Green RIGHT NOW, certainly, but what difference does that make? Green isn't in this draft. The point I was trying to make earlier is that teams will try to find the NEXT AJ Green, and they will. It just might not be a prospect with all the hype that Green had.

People said the 2010 draft was one of the strongest of all time, yet go back and look at the first 2 rounds and see how many players busted. Suh and McCoy were both seen as future HOFers, neither one of them lived up to their hype. Sam Bradford is one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL. Eric Berry (the next Ed Reed) has underwhelmed. Rolando McClain might be out of football next year. And so on and so on...

The quality of a given draft is always relative and can't really be assessed a lot of the time until several years down the road. You can always say "so and so isn't worthy of a top 10 pick," but if a given player is one of the 10 best talents in the class then why the hell not?

With the rookie wage scale most of the downside of missing on a pick is now pretty much gone. Just pick the best player available that makes sense for your team, upgrade your overall talent level whenever possible, and you'll do fine.

Very good points. The nature of the draft makes it impossible to empirically state "this is a weak draft" or "this is a strong draft." There are good players in every draft.

Besides that, most experts that I've heard have said that, other than the top 15 picks or so, this draft is just as strong as last years.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

I think a lot of drafts are now going to start looking a lot like this because of the rookie wage scale.

Higher rated underclassmen are finishing their degrees (which is a good thing) rather than coming out, because there isn't as much incentive to come out and try and be a top 10 pick and signing a $60 million contract.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

The top level talent may not be as good but there's an abundance of very good talent late first 2nd and third. It's deep with good talent but no clear cut elite talent minus maybe five guys. That later doesn't concern us because we don't pick early. I'd rather have a deep draft because that suits us.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

The top level talent may not be as good but there's an abundance of very good talent late first 2nd and third. It's deep with good talent but no clear cut elite talent minus maybe five guys. That later doesn't concern us because we don't pick early. I'd rather have a deep draft because that suits us.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

I also should clarify my statement as well lol, i meant weak draft as far star power or in certain spots. I do however think there are alot of good football players in this draft, especially defensively rounds 2 thru 4. A really good draft for what the Ravens need.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Maybe we should trade Dickson and Dixon to Philly (Kelley like most coaches like players they are familiar with and can convert into a system they ran in the past) Win-win situation. Wont get much in return, but better than nothing.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by Boulderraven

Maybe we should trade Dickson and Dixon to Philly (Kelley like most coaches like players they are familiar with and can convert into a system they ran in the past) Win-win situation. Wont get much in return, but better than nothing.

As far as I know Dixon is a free agent next year, so we won't have the ability to trade him.

Dickson to Philly on the other hand is an interesting possibility... they have Brent Celek under contract for 4 more years, but all but 1.2m of his bonus money has already been paid out. They'd free up 2m in 2013 and quite a bit for the future by releasing him, and he doesn't really play as well as his stats would have you think, nor is he a good fit for Chip Kelly's offense. Dickson OTOH is obviously tailor made for it, he plays best when split out wide and in the slot.

Even if Dickson to Philly doesn't work out, I see no reason at all for the Ravens to hang onto him for next year. They should trade him now and get some value, any value, if possible. He's not going to be re-signed after next year and the team is going to need to upgrade at #2 TE in the draft anyway with a better blocker.

If I were the Ravens I'd put poor Ed on the block right away. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they get a taker or two, as well. He has value, it's just his value is lower to the Ravens because everything he can do well, Pitta does better. But for a team looking for a complementary TE who plays best when in the slot or split out wide, he has definite upside.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

As far as I know Dixon is a free agent next year, so we won't have the ability to trade him.

Dickson to Philly on the other hand is an interesting possibility... they have Brent Celek under contract for 4 more years, but all but 1.2m of his bonus money has already been paid out. They'd free up 2m in 2013 and quite a bit for the future by releasing him, and he doesn't really play as well as his stats would have you think, nor is he a good fit for Chip Kelly's offense. Dickson OTOH is obviously tailor made for it, he plays best when split out wide and in the slot.

Even if Dickson to Philly doesn't work out, I see no reason at all for the Ravens to hang onto him for next year. They should trade him now and get some value, any value, if possible. He's not going to be re-signed after next year and the team is going to need to upgrade at #2 TE in the draft anyway with a better blocker.

If I were the Ravens I'd put poor Ed on the block right away. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they get a taker or two, as well. He has value, it's just his value is lower to the Ravens because everything he can do well, Pitta does better. But for a team looking for a complementary TE who plays best when in the slot or split out wide, he has definite upside.

Considering he decided to run his mouth when he's not even playing much Sunday, I agree.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Considering he decided to run his mouth when he's not even playing much Sunday, I agree.

Few questions:

1. By "running his mouth," I take you mean this? And you have a problem with that why? Everyone shows up for Media Day & everyone gets asked questions. Dickson's comments seem pretty boilerplate understatement to me. Can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with them...unless they're holding a grudge because he hasn't turned out (yet) to be a consensus-HOFer.

2. "Not playing much Sunday"--& you know this how? You don't think they could possibly have a game plan with a lot of 2 TE sets? You going to come back here & admit you were mistaken in that case?

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Few questions:

1. By "running his mouth," I take you mean this? And you have a problem with that why? Everyone shows up for Media Day & everyone gets asked questions. Dickson's comments seem pretty boilerplate understatement to me. Can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with them...unless they're holding a grudge because he hasn't turned out (yet) to be a consensus-HOFer.

2. "Not playing much Sunday"--& you know this how? You don't think they could possibly have a game plan with a lot of 2 TE sets? You going to come back here & admit you were mistaken in that case?

Sheesh.

Yes I have a problem with it...expecially when it's from a guy who will barely play.

It would be one thing if Ray Rice or Flacco said it...it's another thing when a guy who barely plays because he can't catch does it.

And just because you are asked a question doesn't mean you have answer it at all or even in that way. You can show confidence without saying something that could rile up an opponent.

And I'm saying he isn't playing much because he hasn't been playing much all season. He no longer starts, and the team doesn't go to 2 TE sets nearly as much as some think...we have done a lot more 3 wide sets with Jacoby in there.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

What Dickson said was fairly benign but he made way it too easy for PFT to frame his comments as trash talk and get the clicks they want

Weíre not going to be naÔve. Iím sure theyíve made corrections. In the end, itís all about us and the things that we do well with running the football and passing the ball, just being a balanced offense.

But of course the headline, the attention grabber, "49ersí defense has a lot of holes we can exploit" makes it sound much worse.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

Anyone think we take a flier on ray ray Armstrong in the fifth or sixth. Similar situation to Mathieu, talent is there, has personal issues causing him to fall.

I think he's actually a very interesting question mark. As far as I'm concerned, his personal issues are not at all comparable to Mathieu, or at least not as egregious as Mathieu. He simply got busted for what dozens of college players do without getting caught: interacting with boosters. I'm not condoning it, but it won't mean anything once he gets to the NFL.

Mathieu on the other hand is a possible drug addict. THAT matters in the NFL, because guys with drug problems need to decide what they love more: dope or football. Plenty of guys over the years have underperformed or outright busted because they chose dope over football. That is a much more concerning issue than having inappropriate contact with boosters that was caught. Ray Ray might be dumb but he's not a degenerate.

Having said that... I really don't know what will happen with Ray Ray. He has so much potential but he never really lived up to it, and he was still very raw in 2011. At this point he'll have missed nearly 2 years of football by training camp 2013. Does he even get drafted? I don't think so. But I would have no problem with the Ravens prioritizing him as an UDFA or spending a 7th or so on him.

I think he's actually a very interesting question mark. As far as I'm concerned, his personal issues are not at all comparable to Mathieu, or at least not as egregious as Mathieu. He simply got busted for what dozens of college players do without getting caught: interacting with boosters. I'm not condoning it, but it won't mean anything once he gets to the NFL.

Mathieu on the other hand is a possible drug addict. THAT matters in the NFL, because guys with drug problems need to decide what they love more: dope or football. Plenty of guys over the years have underperformed or outright busted because they chose dope over football. That is a much more concerning issue than having inappropriate contact with boosters that was caught. Ray Ray might be dumb but he's not a degenerate.

Having said that... I really don't know what will happen with Ray Ray. He has so much potential but he never really lived up to it, and he was still very raw in 2011. At this point he'll have missed nearly 2 years of football by training camp 2013. Does he even get drafted? I don't think so. But I would have no problem with the Ravens prioritizing him as an UDFA or spending a 7th or so on him.