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I am glad this was posted. I started a topic a few weeks ago stating that the face angle had to be changing in order to change the loft of the club. Some people argued with me. I guess they felt Titleist had a magical way of altering the loft without changing the face angle. That aside, my question is how some of the positions work in the chart. The A4 position is on the fade side of the chart. How is it producing a fade with a standard lie angle and a 1.5* closed face? I may be missing something.

I am glad this was posted. I started a topic a few weeks ago stating that the face angle had to be changing in order to change the loft of the club. Some people argued with me. I guess they felt Titleist had a magical way of altering the loft without changing the face angle. That aside, my question is how some of the positions work in the chart. The A4 position is on the fade side of the chart. How is it producing a fade with a standard lie angle and a 1.5* closed face? I may be missing something.

Same chart for both. YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE LOFT WITHOUT CHANGING THE FACE ANGLE. I WAS A PGA TOUR REP! CASE F'ING CLOSED!

You are 100% right. But dial it back a bit. If these other clowns (not in this particular thread) want to totally ignore facts, then fighting with them isn't going to do you a bit of good. Thanks for the chart.

wouldnt it be possible to change the loft without changing face angle by using a sure-fit type hosel that has a removable "sleave" (as they call the piece) piece for each loft setting? Then of course you could no longer adjust lie...only loft and you would have individual sleave pieces that you would have to carry around when adjusting the club. But why should such a system not work? hope ive explained it well enough....but i think this should definitely be possible. Thats probably going to be the next generation sure-fit hosel since loft adjustability with a constant face angle would be perfection.

wouldnt it be possible to change the loft without changing face angle by using a sure-fit type hosel that has a removable "sleave" (as they call the piece) piece for each loft setting? Then of course you could no longer adjust lie...only loft and you would have individual sleave pieces that you would have to carry around when adjusting the club. But why should such a system not work? hope ive explained it well enough....but i think this should definitely be possible. Thats probably going to be the next generation sure-fit hosel since loft adjustability with a constant face angle would be perfection.

why isnt the face angle listed on the original chart. that would have cleared up some confusion, its much easier to read now. thanks for the post and info.

wouldnt it be possible to change the loft without changing face angle by using a sure-fit type hosel that has a removable "sleave" (as they call the piece) piece for each loft setting? Then of course you could no longer adjust lie...only loft and you would have individual sleave pieces that you would have to carry around when adjusting the club. But why should such a system not work? hope ive explained it well enough....but i think this should definitely be possible. Thats probably going to be the next generation sure-fit hosel since loft adjustability with a constant face angle would be perfection.

why isnt the face angle listed on the original chart. that would have cleared up some confusion, its much easier to read now. thanks for the post and info.

Great question, the original had me confused as well.

Kevin

I could be wrong
I have been wrong before
I will be wrong again
=============================
Geometrically Oriented Linear Force
Turtleback Golf & Conference Center

wouldnt it be possible to change the loft without changing face angle by using a sure-fit type hosel that has a removable "sleave" (as they call the piece) piece for each loft setting? Then of course you could no longer adjust lie...only loft and you would have individual sleave pieces that you would have to carry around when adjusting the club. But why should such a system not work? hope ive explained it well enough....but i think this should definitely be possible. Thats probably going to be the next generation sure-fit hosel since loft adjustability with a constant face angle would be perfection.

why isnt the face angle listed on the original chart. that would have cleared up some confusion, its much easier to read now. thanks for the post and info.

Great question, the original had me confused as well.

Kevin

the sad thing is that it is still confusing. the have the draw arrow in the middle of the chart point to the left. when actually the draw arrow should be pointing up because going up makes the face more closed. d3 has no more draw then D4 does but according to the chart, thats the way it looks. does anybody think the chart works well?

why isnt the face angle listed on the original chart. that would have cleared up some confusion, its much easier to read now. thanks for the post and info.

I could be completely wrong here but Titleist probably doesn't want the average golfer to know the face angles. The average golfer hits a slice. If they move the hosel to the A4 position, they close the face 1.5* by leaving the lie standard. Now they start hitting high draws, thinking the club is set up in a neutral position. It is a marketing tool for Titleist as this person will now go tell their friends how they are hitting their new Titleist driver higher and farther, with a little draw. It is included in the fitting manual because most fitters should already know that the only way to change loft is to change face angle. Like I said, I could be completely wrong here. Just an idea.

It is included in the fitting manual because most fitters should already know that the only way to change loft is to change face angle.

I'll take exception to that comment. I've been fitting clubs for 35 years, and understand the relationship of face angle to loft. You never know what to expect with new technology, and the original chart showed the face angle changing only on lie change, not loft change. Perhaps "most fitters" aren't guilty of believing everything they read as I tend to be...

Kevin

I could be wrong
I have been wrong before
I will be wrong again
=============================
Geometrically Oriented Linear Force
Turtleback Golf & Conference Center

Late to this post. Hit the 910 yesterday and really liked it. Hope to get a "for real" fitting later this month. Question - what does it say at the bottom of the chart pictured in the original post? "the head will have more loft when squared at impact if __________________ with a closed face angle? Is the blank "address the ball?" What does the rest say? I have seen multiple versions of this chart but can't find one with the language underneath like this one?

Also late to this post, but as the 910f and h models are becoming available for purchase in Europe, my interest is looming.

I don't quite understand the chart. If I have a 21 degree 910h and I want to change it to around 20 degrees of loft with the same lie and face angle that is not possible? So I will have to live with fading or drawing the ball if I want to change settings in the 910 series?

Also late to this post, but as the 910f and h models are becoming available for purchase in Europe, my interest is looming.

I don't quite understand the chart. If I have a 21 degree 910h and I want to change it to around 20 degrees of loft with the same lie and face angle that is not possible? So I will have to live with fading or drawing the ball if I want to change settings in the 910 series?

Moniteur,

This may sound strange, but to me, you are able to offset the effects of changing the face angle when changing loft by also changing the lie.

More Loft = More Closed
More Upright = More Closed

Less Loft = More Open
Flatter = More Open

So, I wanted to make my 21° stronger, but didn't want to open the face. I went to C2. Stronger loft, more upright. 20.25° and still looks square to my eye. I did the same with my 17°. Brilliant system.

Kevin

I could be wrong
I have been wrong before
I will be wrong again
=============================
Geometrically Oriented Linear Force
Turtleback Golf & Conference Center