yeah ive been looking around for another gun and i need to know which one of these is better? I want to narrow it down. what do you guys think? you guys have most of these markers so let me know please.

The Pumper

08-01-2008, 09:48 PM

Are you going for brand new?

Modded-Like-Hell

08-02-2008, 06:05 AM

lightly used or brand new i dont care

TheDarkShadow

08-02-2008, 06:05 AM

get a G3 imo

battlechaser

08-02-2008, 06:18 AM

PMR or a used Bob Long.

Modded-Like-Hell

08-02-2008, 06:27 AM

PMR or a used Bob Long.

do u really get a bang for your buck with a PMR over a Etek?

battlechaser

08-02-2008, 06:55 AM

do u really get a bang for your buck with a PMR over a Etek?

From what I've heard, the Bob Long guns generally get better efficiency and are much quieter. I'd probably take a used Gen 3 (2k5) Timmy over an Ego/Etek any day of the week. But as for the PMR vs the Etek, if the Etek is as close to the Bob Longs as they seem to be, teching should be fine, but from that standpoint (take a look at Paradox's PMR tech vid on YouTube) the PMR is easier to maintain.

As it stands right now, the Bob Longs are probably the best bang for your buck though, as you can easily find a used Alias on PBN for $300, not bad because it easily would've been well over $1000 when it came out (PBreview lists the MSRP at $1400). And it's comparable to an Ego, not the Etek. As you can see.. I'm pretty biased towards the gun I own.. LOL. :D

vikingshadow

08-02-2008, 07:02 AM

IMO, the PMR is still the best gun for the money out right now. Others will say differently, but I have to respectfully disagree with them.

For $300 (or less) you can get a brand new PMR with a UL frame that will compete with any other "high end" gun on the market. The only difference is there's no LPR. However, I've used mine for two years and absolutely don't miss an LPR at all. It just doesn't need one. I constantly have to hold my tongue when I read on PBN that if you want to get into tourneys, you have to get a "better" gun. BS in capital letters!

In a tourney I played last weekend, I didn't break a single ball in my gun. No chops, no barrel breaks. I chrono'd onto the field EVERY game at 296-299 fps. The only performance upgrade I have is a Lucky 15 barrel, unless you count the UL frame with it's nice trigger as a performance upgrade. It shoots fast, it's consistant (thanks to the Hyper II reg - definitely in the top 3 regs category) and extremely easy to maintain. I was the main killer on our team and we took 3rd place (due to a bad decision on our part - otherwise would have been 2nd), and had we actually practiced and played in the past year, we could easily have contended for 1st. I did it with a *gasp* PMR!

Sorry for the rant - I get irritated when people see one or two PMRs that aren't well maintained or owned by people who know what they're doing, and assume they're all bad. It seems that PBN and I are going to have to part ways soon...I get irritated a lot over there anymore...

Back to the topic - While some will argue it's not efficient, I'll also disagree with them on that. It's easy to get more than 1200 shots on a 68/4500. I can easily get that and more. While it's not the best efficiency out there, it's certainly not worthy of the flames it gets for it's "poor efficiency."

Mini's are ok, but they're too small, even for my tiny hands. They just don't feel right to me, and they are more expensive than the Rail. I've yet to come across a stock Ion that can compete with a stock PMR (in my opinion!) but I haven't shot the Eos or Etek, so I can't compare them to the PMR.

Like I said, for the money, the PMR is definitely the best, IMO. I'm not comparing it to any gun that is used, of course. Although I can, but that would start all kinds of arguments. But new, for the money, you can't go wrong with it!

battlechaser

08-02-2008, 07:27 AM

Be proud, Modded, your thread earned a Vike rant! :)

I have to agree with the fact that buying a new gun, it's really hard to beat the PMR in it's price range for what you get. Even used it's a tough gun to beat. As for a used gun though, I'm still going to stick with my choice. It's all a matter of opinion though. Really when you're limited to firing 13 bps, it's all about the feel of the gun from your perspective.

shark

08-02-2008, 11:01 AM

I have to agree with Vike, PMR = :thumbup: I had a similar situation where i just went through 2 cases at the last tourney over 14 games and never had a break in the breach or the barrel. Im buying a ul frame right now because i found one cheap but the stock frame has been very good to me. The board has all the settings you need and for the amount of money that you can find a slightly used Rail for, it's definitely the best marker on that list for me. The only upgrade that I would suggest would be spring detents from NDZ or Kila's magnetic ones.

xsvly-fat

08-02-2008, 11:01 AM

The PMR is not very efficient compared to most markers, it is very quiet and doesn't kick at all, a Timmy is a good choice too cause they are efficent, a bit louder then the PMR but not like an Ego. However out of the 3 choices you said the PMR or Etek would be the best but like battlechaser said its mainly about the feel

Modded-Like-Hell

08-02-2008, 11:02 AM

i see that PMR is a bang for the buck gun. i assume that the EOS is the stepped up ion and i already have a ion. but i see all over the forums that ppl get eteks. they say that are awsome guns and are better and stuff like that, i rather ask you guys that messed around with them, before i make the wrong desicion.

ttam13xlpb

08-02-2008, 12:44 PM

eteks are loud... i dont like loud... pmr is better for the price..it may actually be a better gun all around.they are both going to have a lil kick to em.the pmr has a bit of barrel rise i noticed..really noticed it after shooting my dm8...but yeah my vote is for the pmr

Again, they aren't as efficient as a Droid, or a Borg, or an Ego. But, I definitely get comparable efficiency to my teammates Timmys - like I said, I get around a loader and 5 -7 pods (locklids = approx 190 balls) so around 1200 - 1400 shots off my 68/4500 - and by then it's sucking air for sure. That's definitely not bad efficiency at all. In my opinion, it's not even a negative issue with this gun, though a lot of people bring it up (despite having all day air and getting that many shots.) A few years ago, that was considered excellent efficiency!

However, this does bring up the ONLY thing that I don't like about the PMR. When you get around 100-150 psi, all the remaining air will vent out because there isn't enough pressure to hold the seal in back shut. I'd like to shoot that extra 20-40 balls!

Actually, as far as barrel rise goes, I don't get nearly the amount of rise with it as I do out of my Shocker. It was one of the selling points I used when buying it, actually. Much easier to run a string on target.

Just to be clear: I know it sounds like I'm a PMR fanboy, but I'm really not. Most people know I have no loyalty to any one company. I'll take whatever gun so long as it works for me, is quick and is comfortable. I like my Shocker (SP), my PMR (Dye), my Angel (04 Speed - just a dang brick, but it ripped!), my T1's and TES (Dragun), my Spyders (Kingman), and while I'm not a really a fan of Intimidators (Bob Long - I just can't seem to get adjusted to them) I wouldn't hesitate to use one if I had to. I also don't care much for Egos for the same reason as the Timmy, but I like all guns.

codymm1014

08-02-2008, 02:48 PM

I would have to say PMR. My friend had one, and IMO its a great gun for the price. Shoots fine, pretty smooth. More kick than other Matrix guns, but its still a good gun. I honestly would only shoot one of the SE PMR's because its replaces all the plastic parts,and the UL Frame, because I cant stand the stock frame, and the ul frames are nice.

But if its stock vs stock vs stock. I would say Etek.

Modded-Like-Hell

08-02-2008, 03:22 PM

However, this does bring up the ONLY thing that I don't like about the PMR. When you get around 100-150 psi, all the remaining air will vent out because there isn't enough pressure to hold the seal in back shut. I'd like to shoot that extra 20-40 balls!

is that when your tank reachs that pressure as it empty or when to dial in the reg to that?

the body is all plastic on the PMR?

battlechaser

08-02-2008, 03:27 PM

is that when your tank reachs that pressure as it empty or when to dial in the reg to that?

the body is all plastic on the PMR?

No, just small parts like the eye covers and the back cap.

Modded-Like-Hell

08-02-2008, 03:36 PM

i dont mind things like that

vikingshadow

08-02-2008, 03:45 PM

is that when your tank reachs that pressure as it empty or when to dial in the reg to that?

the body is all plastic on the PMR?

It's when the pressure in the tank reaches that level - which is below the operating pressure of the gun. The design of the bolt is such that it loses it's seal when it gets below that pressure. It stinks, as I'd like to be able to throw a few more balls out there, even if it's under the original fps. But, if it comes down to that level in a serious game, then you've shot some serious paint and it's probably going to be timed out anyways!

No, the only COMPOSITE parts (not plastic - it's very hard and I guarantee you aren't going to break them - with the exception of the feedneck) are the feedneck COVER (the rest of it's metal), the back cap (not a problem if you don't crank on it), the eye covers (no big deal) and the stock frame/trigger. The body, bolt, etc. are aluminum.

The frame was actually more comfortable than I expected, but I upgraded to the UL frame anyways, which I like a LOT because I have smaller hands. Also, the stock trigger is sort of iffy - you either like it or you don't. The UL trigger is much better - they have aftermarket triggers for the stock frame, including a UL trigger though.

Basically, you don't NEED anything with this gun. It's ready to rip right out of the box, literally. I took it in the backyard when I got it and was shooting just as good, if not better, than my highly upgraded Shocker at that time. The Proto one piece barrel is decent - but it's a rather large bore and short. The back cap - meh, I replaced it as a precautionary thing, but I've heard people do good with it. Eye covers, why mess with them? Feedneck cover is pretty important - I've heard they break but I didn't have any problems with it before I replaced it. The frame and trigger is personal preference - I've read MANY people like the stock frame. I'm an upgrade whore, so it was one of the things I replaced and I really like the UL frame. The board is the PM7 board - and it does everything you need it to do. Really, upgrading this gun really is a personal preference thing - in this case.

battlechaser

08-02-2008, 03:45 PM

i dont mind things like that

Main problem I've heard is the back cap strips easily, which is the main reason for the aluminum ones. The PMR SE comes with the aluminum parts already.

vikingshadow

08-02-2008, 03:49 PM

Here's a review I did after I got mine a couple years ago. (http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=8252) It might help answer some questions for you. However, like always, if you have any other questions feel free to ask!

codymm1014

08-02-2008, 04:32 PM

It's when the pressure in the tank reaches that level - which is below the operating pressure of the gun. The design of the bolt is such that it loses it's seal when it gets below that pressure. It stinks, as I'd like to be able to throw a few more balls out there, even if it's under the original fps. But, if it comes down to that level in a serious game, then you've shot some serious paint and it's probably going to be timed out anyways!

No, the only COMPOSITE parts (not plastic - it's very hard and I guarantee you aren't going to break them - with the exception of the feedneck) are the feedneck COVER (the rest of it's metal), the back cap (not a problem if you don't crank on it), the eye covers (no big deal) and the stock frame/trigger. The body, bolt, etc. are aluminum.

The frame was actually more comfortable than I expected, but I upgraded to the UL frame anyways, which I like a LOT because I have smaller hands. Also, the stock trigger is sort of iffy - you either like it or you don't. The UL trigger is much better - they have aftermarket triggers for the stock frame, including a UL trigger though.

Basically, you don't NEED anything with this gun. It's ready to rip right out of the box, literally. I took it in the backyard when I got it and was shooting just as good, if not better, than my highly upgraded Shocker at that time. The Proto one piece barrel is decent - but it's a rather large bore and short. The back cap - meh, I replaced it as a precautionary thing, but I've heard people do good with it. Eye covers, why mess with them? Feedneck cover is pretty important - I've heard they break but I didn't have any problems with it before I replaced it. The frame and trigger is personal preference - I've read MANY people like the stock frame. I'm an upgrade whore, so it was one of the things I replaced and I really like the UL frame. The board is the PM7 board - and it does everything you need it to do. Really, upgrading this gun really is a personal preference thing - in this case.

I never meant to say you NEEDED the new parts, I would just highly recommend them. And yea its composite, but to me its still plastic. Im not really worried about them braking, its just really cheap feeling. I think PMRs are really good guns for the price though.

vikingshadow

08-02-2008, 04:44 PM

Oh, I know that. No worries! :D

I was just further clarifying was all because it sounds like he's considering this gun. I wanted to make sure he had everything he needed, including a couple of negatives (the air pressure thing, and then the leak thing I talked about in my review way back when) to compare to.

battlechaser

08-02-2008, 04:56 PM

Oh, I know that. No worries! :D

I was just further clarifying was all because it sounds like he's considering this gun. I wanted to make sure he had everything he needed, including a couple of negatives (the air pressure thing, and then the leak thing I talked about in my review way back when) to compare to.

me too... i mean, ive considered it a little before, but i've always leaned more towards timmies.

vikingshadow

08-02-2008, 06:17 PM

Well, like I always tell myself, I don't want to get involved in these kind of threads. But, it seems the PMR gets a bad rap all the time, and I just decided I'd throw out what I know about the gun before everyone comes in and talks bad about it. I really just want to help, and all this was based on what I know about using the gun every weekend for almost two years, as well as everyone else I know that uses this gun.

Just remember, I'm talking stock vs stock. Not a stock PMR vs upgraded Ion, or used Timmy, or whatever. Most usually, the used guns are going to have upgrades thrown on them so it's not a fair comparison.

Oh, and you know me. Whenever I decide to participate and am in a typing mood - watch out!

Modded-Like-Hell

08-02-2008, 10:16 PM

ok i got you vike, its kind of what happens when your low on gas on a spyder and does that pop and uncocks itself. kind of like a fart. lol , for the back cap ill change it when the time comes. anything else i need to know?

Hob Hayward

08-02-2008, 10:44 PM

I can personally attest to the PMR ripping... and in style..

I rock a stock PMR SE, and I have to say, as fast as I shoot, its accurate, its very fast, I have not broken a SINGLE ball in it, ever, and it needs minimal maintenance.

Only downside is that its not the most efficient gun, but does that really matter these days?

vikingshadow

08-03-2008, 06:08 AM

Modded - if you do end up getting one, I might suggest two things. When you get it, make sure to turn the reg all the way down first before you shoot it. For some reason, Dye was sending PMRs out with the reg up too high, which made a lot of people blow an oring and get leaks right out of the box. Of course, that was the beginning of the "PMRs are crap" fest...:rolleyes: Turn it all the way down, then just a couple of turns up, or shoot over a chrono first.

Secondly, in case you didn't read all of my review, I seriously think that they were sent with bad orings. At least that first batch or two. They may have fixed this since then, bu I had problems with this persistant leak when I first got it. I would lube, then have the same dang leak. Tear it down, relube and it'd be fine. But it happened every time I lubed. I decided to change all the orings, and noticed that the orings I got were thicker in diameter but the correct dimensions according to the manual. Sure enough, it stopped every leak and I haven't had one since - and it cut my maintenance time down to nothing. I have since verified with a company that makes/sells orings that they actually do have a shelf life, so it could be they were just using old orings that have been sitting for a long time.

Finally, on the stock frame, be very careful with the battery wires. I never broke mine, but read a lot of reports on them. The wires are another reason why I prefer the UL frame - it uses the Ego style battery connector where you just pop the battery into a cradle rather than a wired connector. You don't have to baby it, but don't go yanking around on them either.

Just remember, it's been my observation that with the PMR, the majority of the issues are owner/operator caused.

Edit - oh, the PMR is HPA only, by the way. Just in case anyone was wondering. No Co2!

Hob Hayward

08-03-2008, 06:25 AM

Sorry I just read what I wrote last night and realized how tired I must have been...

PMR = win. Freaking fast in semi (a ref tried to tell me I was ramping once...), accurate, shoots ropes, light, easy to maintain, did I mention it shoots ropes? I feel like the stock board and frame are more than adequate.

I should also mention that its very consistent. Also, I have NEVER broken a ball in the gun or barrel, EVER, not once, not even oncccce.

The gun is sick though, just gonna throw that out there, probably one of the best buys for the money, period.

Modded-Like-Hell

08-03-2008, 07:46 AM

ok i got you, let me know where you got all those thicker 0-ring.

i also changed to a 45ci/4500 tank with my ion, i didnt like co2 because of the spiking.

Modded-Like-Hell

08-03-2008, 09:07 AM

im also looking for an older cocker, the ones with the front block on them, like pro stock, super stock, or a karni, anyone got one of a cheap one let me know too.

vikingshadow

08-03-2008, 10:50 AM

ok i got you, let me know where you got all those thicker 0-ring.

Actually, it's not a "thicker" oring, it was just thicker than the one that came with my PMR. They're normal thickness. But, I could probably build you a set of orings if you wanted. Wouldn't be too expensive.

Modded-Like-Hell

08-03-2008, 02:11 PM

ok, let me get the marker first

spyderfan4271

08-04-2008, 02:47 PM

Have you ever thought about just getting a freak barrel, feedneck and qev for your ion?

Modded-Like-Hell

08-04-2008, 03:14 PM

i order a qev and the e-hopper i have fits really tight on the stock feed neck

bigred76

08-05-2008, 09:59 AM

IMO... upping your Ion or selling it and buying another that's already upgraded used would be your cheapest and best option for you at this point. A PMR is a decent enough gun, but a PM6 with an Ultralite is about the same price and it'll shoot a little smoother. If you REALLY want to drop up to $300, get a used Alias. It'll be the best investment you'll make for a long time to come. If it EVER gives you issues, you can call up BLAST and send in your gun for their free tech support.

spyderfan4271

08-05-2008, 01:09 PM

Try replacing the stock feedneck with a Q-lock feedneck. If you have to buy something new I'd go for the pmr. I have a stock epiphany it's kind of a gas hog but I really like it. The rubber trim came off and the plating is bubbling and chipping so it's kind of my ugly beater gun. So if you are considering the eos I would check the forums on pbnation to see if the plating is also a issue with it. Like someone already said the mini and is nice, but just to small for me. You might be able to find a used pm6 for about the price of a new pmr.

Modded-Like-Hell

08-05-2008, 01:13 PM

ok thanks

nastystankweed

08-05-2008, 02:49 PM

I own a pm8, an ego 7 and I used to have a fully upped ion(traded it for my ego) so i like all 3 companys but, i have to say that my favorite without a doubt is the pmr. they are the smoothest shooting guns ever.Dont go with a karni my teamate bought one and he barely gets to use it because they are so difficult to time. They also require low pressure air tanks. Ive shot alias timmies and they re great but, i would stil go with the pmr.

Modded-Like-Hell

08-05-2008, 03:28 PM

i just bought a PMR about half hour ago...hope i made the right choose

bigred76

08-05-2008, 04:36 PM

Just shot my PM6, my Alias, and then my Prostock... I personally think 'Cockers are as easy as pie to time. The Alias is still smoother than the PM6 (which is smoother than my PMR was due to the LPR) because it's properly tuned, and it feels a LOT better to me as well. Another good option on the same price range as the PMR/Alias is the Shocker SFT. Most people don't like them, but if you can find a used one with some sort of HE bolt/can set-up and a CCM/TonTon frame... they're not that bad. They were actually really good staples in the paintball industry for a long time there.

If you end up not liking the PMR, keep in mind that you can still sell or trade it and get another gun.

nastystankweed

08-05-2008, 04:41 PM

really took my friend a whole weekend and he didnt even do it right, he had to send it to a professional place to tune it for him.

nastystankweed

08-05-2008, 04:42 PM

Oh good choice by the way u wont be dissapointed.

bigred76

08-05-2008, 04:51 PM

Your friend isn't very mechanically inclined, then. I can get a 'Cocker tuned with suction timing and a lighter trigger pull in a day... heck, more like 2hrs, including the hour to and from the store to get air. :rolleyes:

Modded-Like-Hell

08-05-2008, 05:11 PM

thanks cant wait till it gets here

Ace24

08-05-2008, 06:59 PM

Only downside is that its not the most efficient gun, but does that really matter these days?

Usually not on the tourney scene. Unless you're playing NPPL back and you've got 7 pods on you, all of which you dump. NPPL is so slow compared to PSP or AXBL.

During a scenario, you need an efficient gun. Or, you need a pack that can carry a 88-120CI tank. :p

After using a few PMR's that were PROPERLY maintained, I can see why people like them. I still don't though. It's a personal comfort thing and I really hate how they look. I can never get used to how a Matrix feels and looks. Just bothers me. (accept for the DM3 I used to have... but I don't consider that a Matrix >.< It was better :p)

I'd honestly look for a used 2k5'd Timmy. You can find them for anywhere from $150-300 if you look in the right places and they usually come ready to go.

If you've got around $250 to spend, why not build an after market ION? Thats all you need to build something like what I built. If not less... and it's more efficient then the PMR, lighter, and smaller. It is also easier to maintain. Not as much junk to take out and lube as the PMR. The BOB Lucky 5.1's have like 3 o-rings that need to be lubed. Thats it.

Bah... just read what you posted. Have fun with the PMR.

Modded-Like-Hell

08-05-2008, 07:15 PM

well thank you for putting down the gun i just ordered...

vikingshadow

08-05-2008, 07:24 PM

Don't worry about it. You'll like it. It's a great gun - I'm more than pleased with mine! If you have ANY problems, feel free to ask me. There shouldn't be any issues with it, but just in case. ;)

Did you go for the PMR SE, or just the stock one? Also, did you get an UL frame for it or any other upgrades?

bigred76

08-05-2008, 08:28 PM

You have to take the good with the bad... If you had bought an Ion, you'd be called a conformist. If you had bought an Alias, you would have been warned about poppit and ram maintenance. ;) We're just expanding on the subject so you know the goods, bads, ins, and outs of the marker in question. :)

Modded-Like-Hell

08-06-2008, 07:10 AM

i bought a regular one BNIB for cheap

nastystankweed

08-06-2008, 01:53 PM

yea he ist very mechanically inclined. He isnt very inclined at anything except for being dumb and emberassing. LOL Hes a good player and a nice kid but deffenetly not the brightest star in the sky.

Jk

Ace24

08-06-2008, 02:38 PM

You have to take the good with the bad... If you had bought an Ion, you'd be called a conformist. If you had bought an Alias, you would have been warned about poppit and ram maintenance. ;) We're just expanding on the subject so you know the goods, bads, ins, and outs of the marker in question. :)

But if you build your own ION, you're a rebel. :p

People are going to hate me on here... lmao.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUFJGHWjOO0

Might still be processing.

vikingshadow

08-06-2008, 03:02 PM

Ok, he's already bought his gun. I think that instead of worrying the poor guy and throwing doubt on his obviously researched purchase with all your "woulda, coulda, shoulda" talk, perhaps we should just let this thread die out.

It's enough to say that people are always going to like their timmys and say that's what you should buy, people are always going to like their PMRs and say that's what you should buy, and Ace is going to be the only one, erhm, I mean, people are going to like their Ions and say that's what you should buy - and then upgrade the snot out of... :p

Let it die, let it die.

Modded-Like-Hell

08-06-2008, 04:20 PM

lol he said i should of bought an ion...but i guess he didnt see my sig that i already own a ion... anyway i bought a PMR for $215 BNIB shipped and insured... can go wrong with that.

Ace24

08-06-2008, 05:24 PM

I meant build one. Haha.

I know plenty of people who have built them and stand by them. I don't mean smartsharts ION, I mean the 100% after market ones. I saw that you already own one in your sig, this means you can sell the stock parts, like I did, for over $180 if you part it out and use that money to build the same thing I did. Thats what I was hinting towards haha.