Below is a portion of a story of which re-print permission has been granted.

Ok, lets think about this for a second. Below is a portion of a story of which re-print permision has been granted in order to comply with a.net's communistic standards for posting. An illegal immigrant single mother is hiding in a church for fear of being deported and wants to stay. Let's see, she cannot speak English, for one thing, broke the law by coming into the country illegally, was convicted of using a fake SSN for working as a cleaning lady at ORD and deported, and broke the law a third time coming back into the country. Now, she just wants to stay because she is afraid of being possibly seperated from her son, a US citizen. A church has given her temporary sactuary, and authorities say they will arrest her in due time.

Poll: Should non-English speaking, 3 time law breaking, illegal immigrant be allowed to stay in the US, or should she be given the option of being deported, with or without her son?

And why should she believe a church can protect her from the INS?

I say DEPORTATION!!!

A prominent activist for illegal immigrants sought sanctuary in a church Wednesday rather than turn herself in for deportation, saying she fears being separated from her young son.

Elvira Arellano, an illegal immigrant who took refuge at Adalberto United Methodist Church in Chicago, gives interviews before the alter of the church.

"I am single mom. My son, he is citizen," Elvira Arellano, a Mexican national, said from just inside the doorway of Adalberto United Methodist Church. "I am not terrorist. I am not criminal. I am mom. He is my son."

Arellano, speaking through a translator Tuesday, said her 7-year-old son, Saul, worries that they will be separated.

"I want to stay here for my son. I want to give him a better future, a better life," she said.

Arellano, who was deported shortly after illegally crossing into the United States in 1997, is president of United Latino Family, which lobbies for families that could be split by deportation.

She says she returned within days, lived in Oregon for three years and moved to Chicago in 2000. She was arrested in 2002 at O'Hare International Airport, where she was employed as a cleaning woman, and subsequently convicted of working under a false Social Security number.

Arellano was ordered to appear at the immigration office in Chicago at 9 a.m. Tuesday, but instead went to the church.

Pastor Walter Coleman said his congregation offered Arellano refuge after praying about her plight. Coleman said he doesn't believe Arellano should have to choose between leaving her son behind or removing him from his home.

"She represents the voice of the undocumented, and we think it's our obligation, our responsibility, to make a stage for that voice to be heard," he said.

Federal officials declared Arellano a fugitive and said living inside a church does not offer her protection from arrest and deportation.

"There's nothing that prevents us from arresting anyone who has an outstanding deportation order anywhere in the United States," said Tim Counts, a spokesman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

"We will apprehend her at a time and place of our choosing," Counts said.

Arellano has received support from several Democratic politicians over the years. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said he introduced a private bill that provided Arellano one stay in her deportation proceedings, but that there is nothing more he can do.

"It is an unfortunate truth that scores of people are in the same situation as Elvira and her family," Durbin said in a statement. "We cannot fix injustices of this system with private bills; only comprehensive immigration reform can permanently remedy this situation."

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 3):Sorry, I don't see how you can qualify that. Britain has retained the cultures of immigrants, whereas France has forced them to immigrate. Our race relations are much better than those in France.

Churches (and other religious facilities) have become havens for illegal immigrants in the USA and elsewhere and is part of their long traditions. In the USA, religious facilites helped legal immigrants in the past to intergrate with the country and community and still do. Illegals cannot really go to a government run facility for help and that is exploited by their cheap employers. Therfore Churches have become the only real alternative. I would say that there are limits. Businesses and people whom employ illegals are breaking the law and committing a sin against God. Churches should put pressure on the employers of illegals that they are exploiting them and should be called out for their sins. As to the illegals themselves, Churches do have an obligation to help them, but there are limits and a time when they must 'render to Ceaser' and obey the law or they are commiting sin too.

Churches can provide "shelter" in the strictest sense - that is, she can wait for enforcement authorities under the church roof. The fact that a church is a religious institution does not exempt it or its workers from the law.

My question is this, however: if the church "fails" to report her presence there, and she's discovered later, would the church have broken the law by aiding a fugitive or whatever?

Frankly, if I had a fugitive in my house, I'd try and get them the hell outta there, preferably straight into the hands of police.

I assume the son is an American citizen because he was born in the US. Well, that's a chance she took when she immigrated illegally. So her son has only his mom to blame if they do get separated.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 9):if the church "fails" to report her presence there, and she's discovered later, would the church have broken the law by aiding a fugitive or whatever?

Simply, Yes!!! While churches are pretty much more than happy to help folks (they run shelters, etc.), they still are not entitled to break the law. I do believe the Bible states they are to clearly follow the law of the land!

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 3):Sorry, I don't see how you can qualify that. Britain has retained the cultures of immigrants, whereas France has forced them to immigrate. Our race relations are much better than those in France.

Quoting OttoPylit (Thread starter):Poll: Should non-English speaking, 3 time law breaking, illegal immigrant be allowed to stay in the US, or should she be given the option of being deported, with or without her son?

she should be deported, after first serving her mandatory life sentence in a Mexican style prison under the 3 strikes you're out law.

no illegals should ever be allowed to stay under any condition whatsoever. Any business they've built up to be confiscated as part payment of the damage they've done to society, any property they've collected confiscated for the same reason.
Most of that property is likely stolen anyway.

[quote=777236ER,reply=3]Sorry, I don't see how you can qualify that. Britain has retained the cultures of immigrants[/quote

This ISN'T Britain. Just because we speak the same language and have similiar customs, does not mean that we share every custom and set of values. I think most people agree that legal immigration is the only way to come to that States and that learning ENGLISH is the right thing to do. Don't like it? Then don't immirgrate here for me to pay your welfare and healthcare and everything else. I say build the wall!!

I guess the first thread, same subject, into which I replied this morning was deleted.

So . . . .

Quoting OttoPylit (Thread starter):Poll: Should non-English speaking, 3 time law breaking, illegal immigrant be allowed to stay in the US, or should she be given the option of being deported, with or without her son?

I am all for the toughest border security possible. However, once they are here (especially with children born here that are now citizens by default) another road should be taken. If she is deported without her son, she will be back soon (wouldn't you do the same thing?). You cannot deport a citizen so her son will have to stay. Considering both options....it would be more prudent to place her into a program that would allow her to become a citizen legally, at her expense of course. I couldn't justify the expense of deporting her only to be forced to track her down and deport her again once she inevitably crosses over to be with her son.

Churches that have become "non-profit" entities by filing a 501C3 form with the IRS are not considered safe haven from government actions (it's in small print). Those churches smart enough to remain independent offer the same protection as that afforded to foreign embassies, and law enforcement agencies are not allowed to act freely on their sovereign property.

If you have a huge hole in the dike (dam), water that has already passed is no longer that important, is it? Wouldn't the logical thing be to immediately fix the hole so no further water is allowed to pass?

If you think about this in the -longrun- fashion, you have to agree that there will be NO more Mexican illegals in America after 2010. At that time, the American Union will be in full swing...all peoples from Canada and Mexico will be citizens of the superstate and allowed unfettered access to the entire region. If you, at that time, have a problem with the situation....you will be able to petition the government on the steps of the new capital, in Atlanta Georgia.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 16):Those churches smart enough to remain independent offer the same protection as that afforded to foreign embassies, and law enforcement agencies are not allowed to act freely on their sovereign property.

I beg your pardon . . . .

Naturally . . . .

So if I read your comment right, I cannot act as a Law Enforcement Officer on Church grounds? I cannot apprehend a suspect on Church grounds? I cannot execute a search warrant on Church grounds? I don't give a damn what kind of Form the Church filed or failed to file. My commission doesn't terminate when I pull in to a Church parking lot. Nor does my duty to uphold the law.

If someones life or limb is at risk by allowing a suspect to stay inside the church....they yes you have the duty to protect, no argument there. If the situation is not "grave" as the one this lady is in....then, provided the church has not signed away it's rights of independency, she is under the protection of essentially diplomatic immunity and can not be touched (legally).

Quoting OttoPylit (Thread starter):Poll: Should non-English speaking, 3 time law breaking, illegal immigrant be allowed to stay in the US, or should she be given the option of being deported, with or without her son?

And why should she believe a church can protect her from the INS?

I say DEPORTATION!!!

Deportation, yes. But not because she doesn't speak English.

Churches are free to provide all the shelter they want. But any if church members or officials try to stop federal agents from entering the premises to enforce the deportation order, they should likewise be arrested, charged, and prosecuted.