I believe that the non-white/Muslim component more likely lies somewhere in 60-85% range. Where exactly, it's hard to say with absolute certainty. Why? Because, like in any country flooded with an tsunami of immigration, a lot of it illegal, and with border control/immigration enforcement widely acknowledged as completely failed and defunct, it's just very hard to impossible to have very precise stats and measurements of these throngs of illegal immigrants, most of whom prefer to be under the radar, avoid contacts with authorities if they can help it etc (so, they are by and large non-reflected in official census, for example). The illegal ones are not reflected in Russian Federal Migration Service's public reports, and even if they were, Russian FMS coudn't care less about ethnicity/race -- it's not recorded or reported. So, for example, even overall numbers of immigration to Russia are usually given as a range. Like, say, 11-15 million (or even some higher "upper figures"). For Moscow, the figures often given for the population of Muslim/Central Asian immigrants are in the range of 2-4 millions. The wide intervals are characteristic for things that are hard to measure, as massively out-of-control, illegal, chaotic immigration is. In these circumstances, how the hell can anyone even give a fixed, precise number like, say, 50% of these immigrants are this or that? It's immediately suspect. At best, it's one person's guess of a "likely number", but it's not very honest to give an estimate like that and not mention that it may have a 20% "margin of error".

You are correct about this though - even the (IMHO, massively overoptimistic) assumption that 50% are Whites, still leaves 5-7 millions (or more) of Central Asian ethnics and suchlike, and still leaves RF as the most non-white immigrant infested White country in the region.

'White - USA' - why do you persist in calling people 'anti-Russian' just because they are not fans of Vladimir Putin
Following your logic it would follow that anyone who hates Obama must be anti American, hate Cameron and you're anti British and so on .. why can't you get it into your noggin that true Russian Nationalists just do not like your hero with very good reason?

I agree that nonwhite immigration is very bad. But look at the vastness of Russia, with its thousands of miles of unprotected border. Everyone can walk over, just as they do in the U.S. or cross the Mediterranean Sea in a boat.

Blaming Putin for not doing the impossible—sealing their seemingly endless border—and using that to ‘prove’ that he is anti-white is not a sustainable position.

The conflict between Russia and Ukraine is an interethnic conflict. Ukrainians believe that 9 millions or so ethnic Russians, including the towns and villages they inhabit, belong in Ukraine. Putin and Russian separatists beg to differ.

That’s all.

We have had many similar interethnic conflicts in Europe for thousands of years, and this one is not any different.

But offering a self-evident observation that interethnic animosity is at the core of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict is apparently frowned upon in this forum.

How else to explain the fact that my post with a polite suggestion that participants disclose their ethnic ties to this conflict (should they choose to do so) was deleted altogether?!

Why? What is wrong about inquiring if a person has emotional attachment to this conflict?

Since my opponents are hiding their true motivations, they frame everything in a way that an American mind, unfamiliar with ethnic allegiances, can comprehend.

Oh, Putin is a Jew puppet! Oh, he is pro-Muslim! Oh, he is an anti-white traitor!

None of this is true. Putin is simply a Russian nationalist who is in a very difficult position keeping his vast Russian homeland together, while facing multiple ongoing external threats discussed in post #970.

All other considerations, including obscure minutia endlessly debated in this thread, are secondary..

'White - USA' - why do you persist in calling people 'anti-Russian' just because they are not fans of Vladimir Putin
Following your logic it would follow that anyone who hates Obama must be anti American, hate Cameron and you're anti British and so on .. why can't you get it into your noggin that true Russian Nationalists just do not like your hero with very good reason?

It is trollish slander and, as such, in my opinion deserves to, and will be, deleted, especially if the person keeps dwelling on it and it occupies (wastes) substantial space in the thread. It has nothing to do with truth and objectivity, and can only provoke responses in kind, which quickly escalates to only more and more personal flames and other unproductive stuff. What you say is a truism obvious to anyone, I would also add that the most prominent and intellectually leading authors of criticism and exposes of Putin (anti-white friend of Jews and pro-multiculturalist) are Russian ethno-nationalists and WNs in Russia itself. Such as the already mentioned Boris Mironov. But, of course, it is in no way limited to him and, in general, all the largest nationalist rallies in RF, e.g. the annual Russian March rally (Russian nationalists rally against Putin) are -- totally unsurprisingly to those who know what Putin is all about -- held under the banners and slogans of anti-Putinism and resistance to the Central Asian/Muslim invasion Putin condones and supports.

I think it's worth to move on and not to keep dwelling on this issue -- to do otherwise is to be led by this obvious red-herring and to keep cluttering the thread with more responses to this undeserving nonsense.

'White - USA' - why do you persist in calling people 'anti-Russian' just because they are not fans of Vladimir Putin
Following your logic it would follow that anyone who hates Obama must be anti American, hate Cameron and you're anti British and so on .. why can't you get it into your noggin that true Russian Nationalists just do not like your hero with very good reason?

Hey darling,

I have responded to your kind question, but they have deleted my response, hoping nobody will find out what's going on.

Some people don't like Russians due to inter-ethnic animosity. That's all.

Russian TV propaganda is constantly blaming Ukrainians for their attempts to create an Ukrainian nationalist state in which the Ukrainian
ethnicity will be important or at least everybody must count with Ukrainians.Russians in Putin's Russia have no right to demand anything.
The upper class is jews and Caucasus,other non-Russians are below them and Russians are the lowest social class.And the preservation
of the Russian Federation based on privileges of non-Russians is not "hegemonic Russian empire" or "strong nationalistic leadership" it
is an attempt to preserve oppression and maltreatment of the Russian people.

Consequently, non-Russians who have {often legitimate} historical grievences against hegemonic Russian empire simply don't like Russians and their strong leader Putin, which is quite understandable.

I am in that situation and i do not hate russians for the simple reasons that they have nothing to do with the wrong doings of their ancestors.If they support that, well that`s another situation.What you do not understand is that Putin and his media are blaming the ukrainians that they are nazis, fascists, nationalists etc.And in the same time he and his oligarchs are doing business with Merkel, the jews, the muslims, the asians, with africans countries, he is making a bank and alliance with other " brave white countries " like China, Southe Africa, Brazil, India.The ukrainian invasion is a geopolitical business of all of them, in the media is just crap for suckers.And this fighting against zionism is just an opinion i have seen here, cause in reality you can`t do that by doing business and living with them.He is just an KGB communist who dreams for another multicultural marxist society in Europe, just the same as EU and ukrainian people are in the middle of this with no quilt.They are brave nationalists who should be helped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomislav14

There is a classic case of civil war in former ukraine, with elements of outside involvement (American).

Watch video and learn about the complexities of the situation, instead of just blindly repeating anti Russian Zionist media propaganda.

I am in that situation and i do not hate russians for the simple reasons that they have nothing to do with the wrong doings of their ancestors.If they support that, well that`s another situation.What you do not understand is that Putin and his media are blaming the ukrainians that they are nazis, fascists, nationalists etc.And in the same time he and his oligarchs are doing business with Merkel, the jews, the muslims, the asians, with africans countries, he is making a bank and alliance with other " brave white countries " like China, Southe Africa, Brazil, India.The ukrainian invasion is a geopolitical business of all of them, in the media is just crap for suckers.And this fighting against zionism is just an opinion i have seen here, cause in reality you can`t do that by doing business and living with them.He is just an KGB communist who dreams for another multicultural marxist society in Europe, just the same as EU and ukrainian people are in the middle of this with no quilt.They are brave nationalists who should be helped.

Okay, so your complaint is that Putin is against Nazis, fascists and Ukrainian nationalists. Yes he is, and let me explain why.

Adolf Hitler, our beloved Fuhrer, was unfortunately not very generous to the Russian people. He attacked Russia out of the blue, on June 22, 1941, in violation of Ribbentrop-Molotov treaty that promoted Russo-German peace, friendship and partition of Poland.

German troops were very brutal in their conquest of Russia, murdering civilians and practicing scorched earth tactic. Hitler wanted to capture Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad and entire Russia, as if this was Bavaria. Tens of millions of Russians perished in this unnecessary war.

Needless to say, Russians hate Nazism to this day and for a very good reason.

Ukrainian nationalists, under Stepan Bandera, collaborated with Germans. That didn’t go over well with Russians, which is why they don’t like the Azov battalion either.

And you know who, in their darkest hour, saved Russia? Stalin. He defeated Germany, which is why, to this day, many Russians have warm and fuzzy sentiments toward him.

For all these reasons, Russian nationalism has a very peculiar leftist bent. That was on display in Donetsk region as tensions mounted. Ethnic Ukrainians were tearing down statues of Lenin, which was a symbol of Russian oppression. Ethnic Russians, on the other hand, would surround and protect Lenin’s statues, the symbol of their resistance to brutal German invasion.

Romanians fought alongside Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front.

Naturally, your sentiments are aligned with those of Ukrainian nationalists, based on the standard framework (good, pro-German ultranationalists aligned against wicked communists, who oppressed Romania for 45 years). This is perfectly reasonable position from your standpoint, but this is not how Russians look at WWII.

As we can clearly see, ethnic background colors people’s views on the Russo-Ukrainian conflict.

Why is this important?

Because with respect to this conflict, there is fight for the hearts and minds of Stormfront’s American audience. SF is based in the U.S., it is American-owned and mostly American-funded. Americans define the official line on every issue where there are differences of opinion (e.g. no gay agenda allowed, period). That’s why people who are opposed to Putin are trying to convince everybody that he is anti-white, so that this would become an official line.

This entire thread was started in an effort to clarify what is going on in Ukraine by promoting dispassionate debate using arguments, not mindless insults. I could be wrong on this, but it would seem that the thread was specifically put in this forum to allow moderation free of any biases.

As for your other point, that Putin is trading with Chinese and Brazilians and the rest of the world, let me remind you that EU and US placed economic sanctions of Russia to choke Russian people to the point that they would turn against Putin and give up Donetsk.

In this situation, isn’t trading with friendly nations who are paying billions of dollars for Russian gas exports (as is the case with China, for example) a good thing? Or should Putin refuse to trade with anybody so that Russia collapses economically?