Assumptions
1. my kids grow up to be average " students.
2. We are an upper middle class family when my kids apply for college (i.e. a few million dollar net worth).
3. Have some 529 balances. Say $75k each kid

Do kids like these typically get any "free" money from colleges or any other organizations ?

For example all high school students in my state that went to a state college received so much if their grades were above a certain GPA. This has dwindled down in recent years and may not be offered any more. That offer was not typical of most states though.

That being said your kids can be average students but overall better well rounded and receive scholarships. For example plays sports, worked during high school, in band, debate club, etc. There are also a ton of scholarships that go unclaimed. My friend used to apply to scholarships for $500 dollars and he would get them but they had no relevance to what he wanted to do.

Typically students who opt to join universities where they would be in Top 1% - 2% of the student body based on Grades/Test Scores/ECs get merit aid. Usually a student who has average stats for any university, will have to look at other universities 30 - 50 ranks below to become Top 1% - 2% of the student body and try for merit aid. So a student whose stats are worthy of HYPSM, can expect merit aid from universities ranked around 40s - 50s where the student will be among top 1% - 2%. Similarly a student whose stats are average for university ranked around 50's will have to look at universities ranked 100+ to be among top 1% - 2% of student body.

Last edited by ytrewq on Wed May 30, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Some private colleges are "generous" with respect to giving many potential students partial scholarships if they attend. However this is sometimes just a mechanism to entice students to attend partly due to the glory of receiving a partial scholarship if they do. These schools may use an inflated tuition rate to allow these "Scholarships", since few, if any students likely actually pay the rack rate. Just something to be aware of and to carefully consider all college expenses when making college decisions. We've had friends send their kinds to colleges partially to take advantage of these scholarships because it was such a deal compared to the "list price", the schools wouldn't do it unless it worked at least some of the time.

My youngest just graduated from college. We spent less than $75K on his 4-year degree at a Tier 1 state university. That's because we got $10K in tax credits to go along with 529 money and money from taxable account. I consider the $10K free money from the Federal government.

But to the OP's "typically" question the answer is No.

Last edited by livesoft on Wed May 30, 2018 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

One of my daughters got scholarships to multiple out of state schools. She wasnt an elite student but got very good grades and tested well. The problem was that even the schools that gave her 15-20k/year were still over 40k/year to attend. The math didn't work for us. I had 2 in college at the same time and 40k/year wasn't happening. We have great in state schools and both of my daughters went in state. All in was under 25k/year each. Not too bad and very good educations.

They did get some state grant money a couple years and I have no idea why they qualified some years and not all 4. Income and asset situation was stable. The grants were 1,500 so it didn't make a huge dent in the bills.

I do recommend having your kids apply for any and all available scholarships when they're in high school. You never know what might happen.

Ours didn't, and I am still bitter at basically having been bullied by the kids' high school advisors and others into applying for the FAF and the FAFSA, miserable paperwork and a lot of personal information I didn't particularly want to share. I kept saying "This is ridiculous. No college is going to give us aid knowing that we basically have enough to pay for at least three years, already saved up." And everyone kept saying O no, you don't know that, you have to apply, there's no way to tell, lots of people who can afford it can get aid.

So we applied. And got told that our expected family contribution was $40,000 per year per kid. At a time when top-tier private school tuition was about $33,000.

I won't even tell you about the "seminar" we attended on how to apply for college tuition aid, except to say that I felt dirty after attending.

My daughter got a $1,000 from a local fraternal organization, I forget why, but I thought it was very nice and I was very proud of her, as we had no connection whatsover with that organization. She didn't apply, it just came out of the blue.

Last edited by nisiprius on Wed May 30, 2018 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It also depends on how much effort they are willing to spend applying for smaller amounts. If they are, then sites like Fastweb have some value. Investigating local, smaller scholarships may also pay dividends.

generally, the tippy top colleges are need-based only -- no merit money. There are exceptions, however USoCal offers a half-tuition discount to National Merit Scholarship Semi-Finalists; many other colleges participate in the program as well, but their scholarship maybe limited to $2k off. Schools like George Washington, Boston U, Northeastern, Tulane, and Miami are known to be generous.

But as others have noted, it takes great grades and test scores to be competitive for the top dollars.

check out college confidential which has a Financial Aid thread.

The post below is spot-on. For example, if you qualify for need-only Boston College, than Fordham and Villanova would offer that same applicant some merit money.

Typically students who opt to join universities where they would be in Top 1% - 2% of the student body based on Grades/Test Scores/ECs get merit aid. Usually a student who has average stats for any university, will have to look at other universities 30 - 50 ranks below to become Top 1% - 2% of the student body and try for merit aid. So a student whose stats are worthy of HYPSM, can expect merit aid from universities ranked around 40s - 50s where the student will be among top 1% - 2%. Similarly a student whose stats are average for university ranked around 50's will have to look at universities ranked 100+ to be among top 1% - 2% of student body.

Last edited by Big Dog on Wed May 30, 2018 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Good read on how colleges inflate tuition and then offer discount (scholarship) to everyone, with best students getting most discount and average/below average students getting smaller discount (scholarship). E.g. If true tuition should have be $100 per student then inflate it to $130 and then offer $50 scholarship to best students (so they pay $80) and average/below average students get $10 scholarship (so they pay $120) and finally average tuition earned remains $100, but everyone feels happy getting a scholarship. https://www.wsj.com/articles/prizes-for ... 1523957400

Good read on how colleges inflate tuition and then offer discount (scholarship) to everyone, with best students getting most discount and average/below average students getting smaller discount (scholarship). E.g. If true tuition should have be $100 per student then inflate it to $130 and then offer $50 scholarship to best students (so they pay $80) and average/below average students get $10 scholarship (so they pay $120) and finally average tuition earned remains $100, but everyone feels happy getting a scholarship. https://www.wsj.com/articles/prizes-for ... 1523957400

Foreign students pay full tuition. That's considered an export, even though the students travel and receive the education in the US, and it is a nontrivial US export that is part of the balance of trade.

Good read on how colleges inflate tuition and then offer discount (scholarship) to everyone, with best students getting most discount and average/below average students getting smaller discount (scholarship). E.g. If true tuition should have be $100 per student then inflate it to $130 and then offer $50 scholarship to best students (so they pay $80) and average/below average students get $10 scholarship (so they pay $120) and finally average tuition earned remains $100, but everyone feels happy getting a scholarship. https://www.wsj.com/articles/prizes-for ... 1523957400

Foreign students pay full tuition. That's considered an export, even though the students travel and receive the education in the US, and it is a nontrivial US export that is part of the balance of trade.

This varies a lot by the school. It used to be foreign students mostly paid full price, but that's changed quite a bit over the last 10-15 years, with many top schools now treating foreign students the same when it comes to financial aid, in part to attract a more diverse group of foreign students (rather than just the sons and daughters of presidents and ministers).

At this level, kid will not get need based aids. Top schools like Ivies, Northwestern, MIT only offer need based aid. All top schools (above mentioned+ Stanford, Chicago, Duke etc) offer need based and you can’t get them.
Any school which gives merit aid will do that to attract good kids and you can get merit based aid in those schools. Some top schools like UChicago, Duke have very few and competitive merit based scholarship (like 25 in batch) but they are hard to get.

I would say that "average" students, regardless of family situation, get very little in the way of scholarships. One has to be exceptional in some way (academics, athletics, musical talent, entrepreneurship, etc) to get more than small scholarships.

Our son got a full ride based on academics to a well known smaller school. He was a national merit finalist, valedictorian, and involved in numerous activities.

Growing up poor, all 6 of us got need based scholarships, but we were also all top students with excellent SAT scores. We also got academic scholarships that were unrelated to need. What we got just because we were poor were good rates on student loans. Good rates, in those days, were under 6%!

I have been estimating my family's EFC using the official FAFSA estimator. https://fafsa.ed.gov/FAFSA/app/f4cForm?execution=e2s1
Based on real-world numbers, our EFC is higher than the first year's estimated expenses. We are not planning to fill out the FAFSA.
YMMV
George

One of our sons (Caucasian) was pretty bright and was offered scholarships from a number of private schools. He chose a well known public university where he/we did not receive a dime, and the cost came out about the same as the private universities after the scholarships were deducted. Actually he did eventually receive a few thousand dollar scholarship through the school due to good academic performance; a nice thought but not really significant in the big picture.

It can also depend on what state you are in and how you work the system. If all of you assets are in tax deferred accounts it could be beneficial. Money in savings or brokerage account will hurt you. It can be like getting subsidies for obamacare. You could have a net worth of several million and still get it. Find out the way it works in your area and plan several years before you apply. Could result in savings.

Ours didn't, and I am still bitter at basically having been bullied by the kids' high school advisors and others into applying for the FAF and the FAFSA, miserable paperwork and a lot of personal information I didn't particularly want to share. I kept saying "This is ridiculous. No college is going to give us aid knowing that we basically have enough to pay for at least three years, already saved up." And everyone kept saying O no, you don't know that, you have to apply, there's no way to tell, lots of people who can afford it can get aid.

So we applied. And got told that our expected family contribution was $40,000 per year per kid. At a time when top-tier private school tuition was about $33,000.

I won't even tell you about the "seminar" we attended on how to apply for college tuition aid, except to say that I felt dirty after attending.

My daughter got a $1,000 from a local fraternal organization, I forget why, but I thought it was very nice and I was very proud of her, as we had no connection whatsover with that organization. She didn't apply, it just came out of the blue.

I totally agree with you. As a high school teacher, I refuse to tell every student to complete the FAFSA. It's not there for folks who can afford college. As for those parents who tell their children to complete the FAFSA while they drive around in their new luxury automobiles, go learn how to "adult".

Assumptions
1. my kids grow up to be average " students.
2. We are an upper middle class family when my kids apply for college (i.e. a few million dollar net worth).
3. Have some 529 balances. Say $75k each kid

Do kids like these typically get any "free" money from colleges or any other organizations ?

1. Most grow up to be average students at the end of high school, and will continue to be "average" at the collegiate level.
2. Your net worth guarantees you will be paying full fare (unless your kids are in a talent based discipline - fine arts, sports, etc...)
3. Don't expect "free money". Instead, keep saving more and just plan on paying the full bill. I think that is the best strategy to plan for and focus on choosing the right school that you can afford. If you hit a school or two that offer a PR driven discount rate and you get the inflated tuition minus the "free money" offer - weigh it with what the state universities offer or cost in comparison.

Focus more on your children getting a good education that prepares them for a chosen field or two or three that they have interest in pursuing. Save accordingly and don't include free handouts in your planning. Save, save, save, and save!

"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

It also depends on how much effort they are willing to spend applying for smaller amounts. If they are, then sites like Fastweb have some value. Investigating local, smaller scholarships may also pay dividends.

Good read on how colleges inflate tuition and then offer discount (scholarship) to everyone, with best students getting most discount and average/below average students getting smaller discount (scholarship). E.g. If true tuition should have be $100 per student then inflate it to $130 and then offer $50 scholarship to best students (so they pay $80) and average/below average students get $10 scholarship (so they pay $120) and finally average tuition earned remains $100, but everyone feels happy getting a scholarship. https://www.wsj.com/articles/prizes-for ... 1523957400

I would say that "average" students, regardless of family situation, get very little in the way of scholarships. One has to be exceptional in some way (academics, athletics, musical talent, entrepreneurship, etc) to get more than small scholarships.

Our son got a full ride based on academics to a well known smaller school. He was a national merit finalist, valedictorian, and involved in numerous activities.

Growing up poor, all 6 of us got need based scholarships, but we were also all top students with excellent SAT scores. We also got academic scholarships that were unrelated to need. What we got just because we were poor were good rates on student loans. Good rates, in those days, were under 6%!

I see. Thanks. I am hoping and planning for my kids to be exceptional (just like every parent on planet earth). But just was wondering what if that doesn't happen.

I see. Thanks. I am hoping and planning for my kids to be exceptional (just like every parent on planet earth). But just was wondering what if that doesn't happen.

Seriously, we would suggest planning on the latter scenario. Sock away as much money each month into the 529's, into your Roth IRA's, and into your taxable account to save up as if you were going to foot the entire bill for your children from the get go. We did that from day one after both of our children were born. 22-24 years of saving covered all bills and then some. That way, there were no surprises. No worries about if they were viewed as "exceptional" by any admission committee and waiting on awards/package offers with fingers crossed at their favorite schools. Whatever they received was viewed as extra gravy and welcomed, but by planning that we would receive $0 - we were well prepared to handle any scenario.

Result: both graduated with $0 debt and attended exactly where they wanted to attend including semester abroad studies, internships, and Summer programs.

We are big believers in parents sacrificing for 18-22+ years to treat college savings to be just as routine and important of an investment as retirement, a mortgage, and monthly expenses when it comes to the upper middle class as we have the means to make it all happen.

"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

Ours didn't, and I am still bitter at basically having been bullied by the kids' high school advisors and others into applying for the FAF and the FAFSA, miserable paperwork and a lot of personal information I didn't particularly want to share. I kept saying "This is ridiculous. No college is going to give us aid knowing that we basically have enough to pay for at least three years, already saved up." And everyone kept saying O no, you don't know that, you have to apply, there's no way to tell, lots of people who can afford it can get aid.

So we applied. And got told that our expected family contribution was $40,000 per year per kid. At a time when top-tier private school tuition was about $33,000.

I won't even tell you about the "seminar" we attended on how to apply for college tuition aid, except to say that I felt dirty after attending.

My daughter got a $1,000 from a local fraternal organization, I forget why, but I thought it was very nice and I was very proud of her, as we had no connection whatsover with that organization. She didn't apply, it just came out of the blue.

I totally agree with you. As a high school teacher, I refuse to tell every student to complete the FAFSA. It's not there for folks who can afford college. As for those parents who tell their children to complete the FAFSA while they drive around in their new luxury automobiles, go learn how to "adult".

Practically any student who is a U.S. citizen or legal resident (green card holder) is eligible for federal direct loans, regardless of financial need, but in order to get the loans the FAFSA must be submitted. For whatever reason, a parent who is wealthy (or who appears to be wealthy) may want or need their child to fund at least some of their college education with federal direct loans. Setting your judgment aside, there may be a valid reason for that parent driving around in a new luxury automobile to ask their child to complete FAFSA.

I would say that "average" students, regardless of family situation, get very little in the way of scholarships. One has to be exceptional in some way (academics, athletics, musical talent, entrepreneurship, etc) to get more than small scholarships.

Our son got a full ride based on academics to a well known smaller school. He was a national merit finalist, valedictorian, and involved in numerous activities.

Growing up poor, all 6 of us got need based scholarships, but we were also all top students with excellent SAT scores. We also got academic scholarships that were unrelated to need. What we got just because we were poor were good rates on student loans. Good rates, in those days, were under 6%!

I see. Thanks. I am hoping and planning for my kids to be exceptional (just like every parent on planet earth). But just was wondering what if that doesn't happen.

Read to them from 4 weeks old. Continue to read them books above their reading level even when they can read themselves (we read aloud through junior high and in the summer during high school). Make school about gaining knowledge, not grades (what did you LEARN today). Seach out knowledge yourself and encourage your kids to do the same. Play games with them. "Dual school" anytime school isn't challenging. Talk, talk, talk. Take your kids lots of places, especially museums.

Our son had major speech delays, intermittent hearing loss, dyslexia, and dysgraphia. Parents can make a big difference.

Read to them from 4 weeks old. Continue to read them books above their reading level even when they can read themselves (we read aloud through junior high and in the summer during high school). Make school about gaining knowledge, not grades (what did you LEARN today). Seach out knowledge yourself and encourage your kids to do the same. Play games with them. "Dual school" anytime school isn't challenging. Talk, talk, talk. Take your kids lots of places, especially museums.

Our son had major speech delays, intermittent hearing loss, dyslexia, and dysgraphia. Parents can make a big difference.

Do they really need to go to college? Many jobs of the future, including the "hottest" in-demand jobs right now, can be obtained by completing 3-6 month "boot camps" -- code schools, data mining intensives, etc.

If they're truly average, is college even the best idea for them? Trade school is a fine option, and there are plenty of decent paying jobs available.

Or, does an "average" kid really need to go to a $40,000 a year school? Many community colleges now offer either in-house 4-year degrees, or have relationships with state universities to do 2+2 programs. This drastically lowers the cost of a college education. At my local community college, there are limited BA/BS offerings, of course, but they do include business and computer science. Cost of four years works out to about $10k-$12k in tuition and fees at current rates for students that graduated from an in-state high school with a GPA above 3.2 or so (I realize not all states offer these kicker programs).

If it's just the piece of paper they're after, and they're a good test taker, it's amazing how many semester hours one can test out of. In fact, it's possible to complete an entire college degree in less than a year simply by testing out of everything. Cost will run about $7k-$8k. Plenty of info on The Google about how to do this.

When I got my engineering degree, I tested out of about 1/4 of my BS requirements (all general ed stuff), completed another 1/4 online (and this was 16 years ago), and just under half was transfer credit from military training. The small balance I finished out over a 2-year period going super-part-time to a state university, as a "working adult".

Just pointing out that there are plenty of alternatives to spending a small fortune to send kids to expensive colleges.

A local community college advertises what amounts to a 50% scholarship for a STEM related degree if one maintains a 3.0 GPA.

A student with a B average could get a STEM related associates degree for ~$10k out of pocket in this scenario. (And a good job.) This seems like the best deal I've seen for an average student.

But in general, the meaningful scholarships only go to the very best students, unless the student is extremely poor. Or, the school will inflate their tuition, and then give everyone varying degrees of scholarships.

Last edited by ClevrChico on Thu May 31, 2018 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Our daughter finished college just recently in the NY area and this is a summary....

If the student is really average at everything and parents are 'wealthy' they will get next to nothing.
Most students are not average at everything.
Grades are the best way to get scholarships.
Activities can make a huge difference as well - sports music , SG, volunteering etc.
One well worth way to lessen costs and increase potential money is taking college classes in HS if your HS offers that.

When you have a short list of colleges that are a best fit for your student it is much better if you visit them and have a personal meeting with an admissions rep to see what may be possible - this combined with a college coach, professor , SG member who would like your student there is an advantage and you are no longer just a number.

Our daughter ended up going to a private college in NY and had these moneys for each year she attended:
$2,000 - area target for where she was located
$6,000 - GPA awarded as long as she maintained grades
$6,500 - leadership award for about 20 hours work a semester
$4,000 - awarded for student athletes who are reps for college
$2,500 - I am not sure of the exact number here, various small shcolarships received from HS and outside applications.

In addition to that $21K per year she was also able to always get these reasonably well paying jobs on campus regularly - admissions, college rep, tutor.
Jr and senior year she was a residnet assistant in addition to these other items. Do yuor research well and try make sure you are on a first name basis with a key person at the collge before the decisions process is near over.

Yes agreed if he has kids going to college shortly - but it just occured to me that he 'might' be projecting this issue out 10 or 15 years in which case the numbers will not be reflective of the situation then due to projecting wealth at a future point in time.

Due to my grades and my residency i would have gotten ten or twenty grand a year off going to an excellent state University.

I did get several full ride offers from small schools that I'd never heard of. These were cold call offers to schools I'd not applied to. They got my new from SAT results i think.

My alma mater, a school that isn't Ivy League although many people think that it is (I can think of two schools that fit this criteria!), offered pretty much nothing for merit. My parents were too well off to qualify for aid so loans were the only option. There were something like two or three full refund scholarships available for kids who had done something insane like won a Nobel Prize or something, but other than that, it was just financial aid that would have to be paid back.

There is a tier of good schools that fight for students by making good offers. But the really big name ones don't have to offer merit scholarships and they'll still have a waiting list.

My degree did get me entrance to a PhD program that paid tuition and have me a stipend, so i think in the end it turned out okay!

+1 - Have seen the same with my own relatives, relatives who have 4.0 GPA, took all the AP classes, all the extracurriculars, etc. The issue is there are thousands upon thousands who have their heart set on attending (fill in the blank) those top 10 or 20 schools, so if they don't take you, someone else will be there applying and willing to pay full ride just to have a piece of paper that says (fill in the blank). Princeton this year admitted 2,000 from a pool of 36,000 highly qualified applicants. How many do you think got "free" college money? A relative of mine got into a well-known highly sought after midwestern Top 20 university which after discounting still required a multiple six figure price to go there. They opted to attend another school due to price. No problem, the school has a waiting list. Lots of folks will take out $150K for undergrad loans, not saying its smart, but they do it.
If you're upper middle class and want to have your kid attend a Top20-30 school with a state school price, start saving from year 0 of birth, chances are you'll be paying for a significant part of it (most, if not all).

If you want free college money, you need to attend good schools, but schools that may not have the recognition that someone else might go when they hear the name "oh, she/he attended poo/woo/big deal school that cost $65K with a 50 state alumni network.