Thanks for an acute description of the two-sidedness of the challenge we face. When a minority - cultural, ethnic or religious - is worn on a sleeve, ostentatiously, provokingly, such behavior invites trouble. This is not only about headscarves. This is also about traditional Roma dresses, and about the hats, black attire and forehead locks of particular Jewish groupings. The list goes on and is certainly not limited to garments. As the majority has a duty not to (unfairly) discriminate, one wonders what is the duty of the minority to take the values and sensibilities of the majority into account when choosing how loudly (and not unfairly) to project their culture, ethinicity or religion. This side of the equation is underrepresented in the discussion. And that is probably because it is politically risky, nay suicidal, to suggest that members of a minority should reflect and consider what they might change in their behavior.

I fully understand and agree with your resentment towards young teenagers, that indulge them selves in debauchery of all kinds.

But I disagree with you, when it comes to being taught and educated in a language, other than the country you live in.

In Denmark, we have taught 2. generation Turks - often born here - in their mother language, for many years. (The idea was, that the children should be able to talk Turkish when they left again, home to Turkey as their parents they said the would)

The result has been, that that the 3. generation Turks have an even poorer Danish language than their parents! They speak 'Ghetto Danish' - that is very little Danish - and have to have a language test, before the start at school.

So, when you have chosen to live and stay in a country, by your own free will, you must learn the language perfectly like everybody else.

Do you not wish to do that, you are free to leave
to an other country, that suits your language preference better. Remember that, kindly.

Some people saw this article as depressing, but I personally found it amazingly informative and did not feel sad or depressed after reading it at all. It provided different opinions to a conflict that I orginally felt I would not change my opinion on and now I have some doubts. However, I still feel that the veil should be allowed into public schools but I realize that the opposing views have a lot of reasons that I did not even think of. Thank you!

Drugs, crime, incivility, binge drinking, teenage pregnancies, anti-social behaviour and institutional racism are common part of life in the modern Britain. Muslim do not want their children to become integrated into such barbarity.

Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades because state schools with monolingual teachers are not capable to teach English language to bilingual Muslim children. The grow up to be angry young men becuse the schols were reluctant to teach Arabic, Urdu and other community languages.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or ateacher in a Muslim school. They need to be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. They also need to be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion,all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/She does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brits.
Iftikhar Ahmad
London School of Islamics Trustwww.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

Very amusing from a Moslim trying to present Moslims as being a member if a global village in contrast to monolingual Brits, when half of them cannot speak English properly, and indeed are not interested in doing so. This is reinforced by this person's inability to write grammatically correct English.
Thank you for the Moslim critique of Britsih culture wcontempt hold in such contempt. You came as guests, and like all guests you should remember your manners. You do not like our culture, but it is the culture of our country. You were welcome guests, and like any guest who out stays his welcome, it's time for you to leave and return to your more civilised countries where you belong; places such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Afghanistan - beacons of peace and tolerance.

I will echo the rest of the commenters in thanking Charlemagne for giving us access to the thoughts of these 3 people - extremely interesting.

Doug, cogito, alkahest: I would say that laicité goes beyond what is thought of as separation of church and state in most countries. It is a deep-held conviction that religious conviction are a purely personal matter and should be kept out of all public spheres, regardless of whether they are official or not.

What an amazing piece Charlemagne. As a reader, I find the blogs give quite a lot of added value to the print edition. Longer peices developping and nuancing the issues as well as shorter posts that give smaller bits of information or references make a great read. Congratulations to the whole team for an outstanding effort in evolving with the times.

I have muslim firends and when it comes to religion is like hitting the wall. Religion is life so there is no argumenting there.

I am for freedom of expression, but then we have to remember that in some muslim countries building churches by immigrant workers is not allowed and western women have to wear the scarf as well. Europeans were quite oppressed by religion and suffered many wars so to see the signs of a religion that can be quite intolerant must be painfull.