If I saw the replay correctly, this was our second Walk-off Ground Rule Double of the season. Joe Crede also hit one earlier in the year (also with the bases loaded).

Two in the first third of the season is unusual. In both situations the batter was ony credited with a single and one RBI. What's up with that?

Am I wrong here? Did everyone else see that ball bounce over the wall on one bounce?

Jjav829

05-29-2004, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by Bucktown
If I saw the replay correctly, this was our second Walk-off Ground Rule Double of the season. Joe Crede also hit one earlier in the year (also with the bases loaded).

Two in the first third of the season is unusual. In both situations the batter was ony credited with a single and one RBI. What's up with that?

Am I wrong here? Did everyone else see that ball bounce over the wall on one bounce?

Only one run is allowed to score in that situation, so the ground rule double doesn't go into effect. In walk off situations, only as many runs as are needed to win the game are allowed to score. The exception is in a walkoff home run where all the men on base are allowed to score. But in this situation of a tie game with bases loaded, only the runner from 3rd is allowed to score, so Paulie only gets the long single.

Bucktown

05-29-2004, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by Jjav829
Only one run is allowed to score in that situation, so the ground rule double doesn't go into effect. In walk off situations, only as many runs as are needed to win the game are allowed to score. The exception is in a walkoff home run where all the men on base are allowed to score. But in this situation of a tie game with bases loaded, only the runner from 3rd is allowed to score, so Paulie only gets the long single.
How stupid is that? What's the logic here? I think we should lobby to have this changed since it has already cost us to runs scored this year (on a pace to lose 6).

Who is with me?

FarWestChicago

05-29-2004, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by Bucktown
Who is with me? :walnuts

I am!! Lord knows I ain't getting any doubles unless they are the ground rule type...

The Cheat

05-29-2004, 03:16 AM

In both situations, I believe, that the out fielders, if positioned normally, would have had a play on the ball. The outfields were drown in and drawn down to only two outfielders.

IlliniOne82

05-29-2004, 07:05 AM

I think it's a situation like a walk off homerun. I think with runners on 2nd and 3rd they would both score and the batter is credited with a double except in this case and in Crede's case the batter stopped after getting to first so they were only given singles and only the first run counted.

Railsplitter

05-29-2004, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by IlliniOne82
I think it's a situation like a walk off homerun. I think with runners on 2nd and 3rd they would both score and the batter is credited with a double except in this case and in Crede's case the batter stopped after getting to first so they were only given singles and only the first run counted.

In 1918, one G.H. Ruth hit came up in the last of the ninth with a runner on first and the score tied. The ball cleared the wall, but under the rules of the day, the game ended when the runner scroed and Mister Ruth was credited with a triple.

illiniwhitesox

05-29-2004, 08:42 AM

Paulie only touches one bag and calls it a night. Additionally, only one player touches home plate and calls it a night.

TornLabrum

05-29-2004, 08:59 AM

Several years ago there was a debate among record keepers about that home run of Ruth's, since it would have been number 715. In the end, rather than revising all of the scores of those games to make the books balance and adjusting every home run ever hit in that situation before 1920 (or somewhere near that year) when the rule was changed, they opted to go with the records as they stand.

Interestingly enough, someone also once found a hit by Ty Cobb that was never credited to him in the official statistics due to a scorer's air when he submitted his score sheet. Rather than get the numbers right, the Commissioner at the time (and I don't remember if it was Bud or someone else) decided that the traditional number of hits and batting average were what everybody remembered, and so the traditional number would stand. How's that for dumb?

voodoochile

05-29-2004, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by TornLabrum
Several years ago there was a debate among record keepers about that home run of Ruth's, since it would have been number 715. In the end, rather than revising all of the scores of those games to make the books balance and adjusting every home run ever hit in that situation before 1920 (or somewhere near that year) when the rule was changed, they opted to go with the records as they stand.

Interestingly enough, someone also once found a hit by Ty Cobb that was never credited to him in the official statistics due to a scorer's air when he submitted his score sheet. Rather than get the numbers right, the Commissioner at the time (and I don't remember if it was Bud or someone else) decided that the traditional number of hits and batting average were what everybody remembered, and so the traditional number would stand. How's that for dumb?

They did actually take HR away from Ruth because GR doubles used to be counted as a HR. I don't know when the rule was changed, but in actuality, he had 750+HR under the rules of the day.

This is as I recall, so if I am nuts, someone feel free to correct me.

Huisj

05-29-2004, 10:01 AM

anyone remember ventura's game winning walk off homer in the playoffs with the mets a number of years ago? He was mobbed by the team half way between first and second, and i believe they only credited him with a single even thought the ball cleared the fence.

voodoochile

05-29-2004, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Huisj
anyone remember ventura's game winning walk off homer in the playoffs with the mets a number of years ago? He was mobbed by the team half way between first and second, and i believe they only credited him with a single even thought the ball cleared the fence.

You actually have to touch all the bases to get the HR. Since he was forced out of the baseline by his teammates, he was officially out after rounding first.

Huisj

05-29-2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by voodoochile
You actually have to touch all the bases to get the HR. Since he was forced out of the baseline by his teammates, he was officially out after rounding first.

exactly, and that's why only one run counted in konerko's case last night, and when he was only credited with a single.

SoxxoS

05-29-2004, 11:16 AM

I bet we are the only team in the history of baseball to have two game winning ground rule doubles to win the game in the first half (or maybe the ENTIRE) season...

johnny_mostil

05-29-2004, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Huisj
exactly, and that's why only one run counted in konerko's case last night, and when he was only credited with a single.

Untrue.

Rule 10.07:

GAME ENDING HITS (f) Subject to the provisions of 10.07 (g), when the batter ends a game with a safe hit which drives in as many runs as are necessary to put his team in the lead, he shall be credited with only as many bases on his hit as are advanced by the runner who scores the winning run, and then only if the batter runs out his hit for as many bases as are advanced by the runner who scores the winning run. NOTE: Apply this rule even when the batter is theoretically entitled to more bases because of being awarded an "automatic" extra base hit under various provisions of Playing Rules 6.09 and 7.05. (g) When the batter ends a game with a home run hit out of the playing field, he and any runners on base are entitled to score.

iwannago

05-29-2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by SoxxoS
I bet we are the only team in the history of baseball to have two game winning ground rule doubles to win the game in the first half (or maybe the ENTIRE) season...

I bet not since a ground rule double is also counted when there is fan interference. eg grounder down the foul lines. Just my thought.

pearso66

05-29-2004, 02:34 PM

I don't see how they can take homers away from Ruth because GRD were counted as homers in his time. Those were the rules at the time of play, so they should stand. Does anyone else think it was dumb to take those homers away?

Huisj

05-29-2004, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by johnny_mostil
Untrue.

Rule 10.07:

interesting. nice find.

TDog

05-29-2004, 02:49 PM

The game where Harvey Haddix pitched 12 perfect innings against the Braves in Milwaukee ended with a Henry Aaron hit that would have been a home run if Eddie Matthews hand't run in the dugout after hitting third.