Your argument might work better if you picked things where there really is no noticeable difference in performance. Or things which were actually driven by the marketing men. Or are you suggesting that in 10 or 15 years time we'll be looking back and saying that 650B really is a huge improvement over 26" and I don't know why we were so cynical at the time

Unless you are racing why do we need to go any faster. It often really hurts when I fall off now if I go quicker it's just going to hurt more. On that basis I have just ordered a 26" hardtail frame which I will likely sell as antique next year.

What would you like them to do? Sit on these marginal improvements because they don't think people will really notice? Some sort of co-op with a panel of judges deciding if the general consumer will benefit from this enhancement or that. But then some people can notice the difference between 15mm and 20mm - do those people get to buy it - perhaps they need to pass a test? I'd really like to know what the other option is!

Fact is that they aren't holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy the new stuff. If people don't want them, they won't buy them.

Unless you are racing why do we need to go any faster. It often really hurts when I fall off now if I go quicker it's just going to hurt more. On that basis I have just ordered a 26" hardtail frame which I will likely sell as antique next year.

for me, i'm not using my wagon-wheels to go faster per-se, but the little bit of extra grip often means the difference between riding through a section, and getting off to walk after a slip-stall.

i'm crap a riding bikes, but even i can find/exceed the point where a tyre lets go - techy climbs are an obvious example, it doesn't take much more grip to make a noticeable difference.

you might as well ask: 'unless you are racing, why do you need to fart about with tyre pressures?'

What happens in another few years when a second or two is gleened from another "new thing" ? That could be say a 3 second advantage over winning or losing, one things for sure if the riders train as they do throughout the winter for the start of the race season and are putting in their all I for one would want to see them pushing the boundaries even if it was a second !

Competing at the highest level is hard graft, not just in biking but in anything........ Look how much the motoring industry has improved though F1 & 24hour racing, stratified fuel to optimise economy so less fuel carried = less weight = less fuel used...... This trickled into the mainstream motoring manufacturers in various guises but no one moaned half as much about tht as folks are about 1/2 an " on a bike wheel

It's obviously a SIZE Matters thing !

Maybe it matters and maybe it doesent but one things for sure !
You can't stop progression at the level that some of these manufacturers pour into advertising !

It's got to be a good thing, and if it isn't well we can all get one of them Dandy Horses !

FWIW I accept a 29 er can help you munch miles if that is what you want to do but 650 b is nothing and has no real demand

If you accept that 29ers have a real benefit, then you have to accept that 650b delivers some of the same benefit. Whether that justifies buying a new bike/frame/forks/wheels/whatever (it didn't for me) is your own decision.

The demand is real - Americans are going 650 crazy, and this time the small manufacturers are getting on board because a lot of them lost sales by not being ready for the 29er explosion in XC bikes.

Yep. No question IMO that there's a real demand. Not an informed demand, mind, but still.

It's basically a marketing dream... It's a change, requiring new hardware, which is Exciting! New things! But it's basically the smallest possible change that could require it, which stops it from being Scary, like 29ers. In the cold light of day it's ridiculous but it's easy to see why it's so appealing.

All my bikes are from people who made the bike they want to, and made it the best they could. I wonder how true that is of the 650b bandwagoneers. Santa Cruz broke the rules by admitting they were making bikes purely to sell to an uninformed demand, rather than because they're better bikes. Nobody else dares admit that but does anyone believe they're alone?

In the cold light of day it's ridiculous but it's easy to see why it's so appealing.

Money you mean? I don't see why it's appealing. I find myself thinking that anyone who buys into it is simply gullible and, dare I say it, stupid. People who bought into 29er were at least choosing something that clearly was different in performance terms, but the whole 650B thing is like something dreamt up by the Onion.

It's mental and all about selling more stuff when as a world, we should be trying to produce less things and preserve resources not churn out more and more and more things.

It would be silly to think you can police change or demand but it does still cause a bit of sand in my fanny (american for bottom, not a rude word).

I built an enduro in 2007. Since building it and riding it tons it has gone through one set of cogs, one shifter and a chainstay which has been replaced (tyres and tubes as well). I still think 650 is overhyped marketing for little change but can understand why manufacturers would do it. I would if I were them and they sold.

It is a shame that we lower economies of scale on new 26" parts with a new standard.

What happens in another few years when a second or two is gleened from another "new thing" ? That could be say a 3 second advantage over winning or losing, one things for sure if the riders train as they do throughout the winter for the start of the race season and are putting in their all I for one would want to see them pushing the boundaries even if it was a second !

This is not 'a second or two'. 0.35% is around 60 yards over 10 miles, that's a pretty conclusive win.

Nico will tell you whatever the folk who provide his free bikes tell him to tell you.

I doubt that- considering that he's variously championed developments that they've never made, criticised bikes they do, declared their production frames to be too stiff and lacking in grip, etc. Lapierre cherrypick his opinions for the ones that match what they want to sell though.