I've done what any normal person would do, and looked up videos of Steven Seagal when I was really bored... Not really normal. But, he seems like kind of a jerk when it comes to teaching. He seems really uninterested in what's happening, and just has an aura of arrogance on the mat. I mean, the dude is good, (not at acting, he's horrendous) but he just seems a bit too pretentious.

Anybody else share this opinion?

Darryl Cowens

08-16-2009 11:23 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Well, this is Steven Seagal you are talking about.... :p

I'm a fan of his earlier movies (I ordered one with some gaming merchandise from a local online gaming site yesterday in fact) but as actors go, he's no Al Pacino, and as martial-arts-"actors" go he's no Bruce Lee or Tony Jaa.

I don't know if you can use his approach to movie making as a reflection of the man himself or not... but consider this.. in all the Seagal movies I have watched, and I have watched all his pre-direct-to-video era (when he actually did his own stunts and choreographed more than just himself slapping people and shooting them) many, many times... I can only think of one movie where even the lead antagonist got one or two shots in...

There is definately an ego there... in one aspect of his life at least..

Misogi-no-Gyo

08-17-2009 12:46 AM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Darryl Cowens wrote:
(Post 237807)

Well, this is Steven Seagal you are talking about.... :p There is definately an ego there... in one aspect of his life at least..

Good point, Darryl... unlike everyone else.

Best in training to you and all...

.

Misogi-no-Gyo

08-17-2009 12:48 AM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Darryl Cowens wrote:
(Post 237807)

Well, this is Steven Seagal you are talking about.... :p There is definately an ego there... in one aspect of his life at least..

Good point, Darryl... unlike you and everyone else.

Best in training to you and all...

.

Sy Labthavikul

08-17-2009 01:53 AM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Well, everyone has an ego; I don't think anyone is above the law in that regard. Personally, though, looking at Steven Seagal's life and career, its hard to kill this suspicion that ego was his main motivating drive. This is just my opinion; I hope I'm not marked for death by any of Seagal's students or fans, who are out for justice for their great hero. I know as an aikido instructor Seagal has taught a great number of aikidoka, and if I were to be under siege by any number of them, man, I'd be on deadly ground. ... uh... Under Siege 2: Dark Territory. Damnit, I knew I shouldn't have made the executive decision to try to do them in chronological order! I don't even know how I was going to deal with "The Glimmer Man," constructing a clever double entendre with that would really require some creative fire, uh.... down below...

Misogi-no-Gyo

08-17-2009 02:02 AM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Sy Labthavikul wrote:
(Post 237818)

Well, everyone has an ego; I don't think anyone is above the law in that regard. Personally, though, looking at Steven Seagal's life and career, its hard to kill this suspicion that ego was his main motivating drive. This is just my opinion; I hope I'm not marked for death by any of Seagal's students or fans, who are out for justice for their great hero. I know as an aikido instructor Seagal has taught a great number of aikidoka, and if I were to be under siege by any number of them, man, I'd be on deadly ground. ... uh... Under Siege 2: Dark Territory. Damnit, I knew I shouldn't have made the executive decision to try to do them in chronological order! I don't even know how I was going to deal with "The Glimmer Man," constructing a clever double entendre with that would really require some creative fire, uh.... down below...

The only thing worse than someone driven by ego is someone who says (or worse, actually believes) that they are not...

To which I will add

PS - The secret of training is to know yourself. The hardest part, though is to be yourself. Go figure...

...otherwise, very clever and funny, too!

best in training to all...

.

Darryl Cowens

08-17-2009 02:14 AM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

LOL.. thanks for that read Sy..

Well, some reading around reveals this to be a touchy, controversial maybe even taboo subject at best...

Curses!! Why isn't there a sticky, or bullet point in the FAQs that says no Seagal threads allowed? :eek:

Darryl, - tongue firmly in cheek and pondering who was better in the AM movies... Micheal Dudikoff or David Bradley?... (ok, that's a no-contest really) :sorry:

Shadowfax

08-17-2009 09:21 AM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Aww shoot I did something else wrong....

I thought normal people looked up u-tube videos of O-Sensei.....

It matters little whether Segal Sensei is or is not a jerk unless you happen to be the one training with him I should think.

Sy you are too funny. Great post! You don't happen to practice Ikea-do do you?

sammywhip

08-17-2009 10:22 AM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Sy Labthavikul wrote:
(Post 237818)

Well, everyone has an ego; I don't think anyone is above the law in that regard. Personally, though, looking at Steven Seagal's life and career, its hard to kill this suspicion that ego was his main motivating drive. This is just my opinion; I hope I'm not marked for death by any of Seagal's students or fans, who are out for justice for their great hero. I know as an aikido instructor Seagal has taught a great number of aikidoka, and if I were to be under siege by any number of them, man, I'd be on deadly ground. ... uh... Under Siege 2: Dark Territory. Damnit, I knew I shouldn't have made the executive decision to try to do them in chronological order! I don't even know how I was going to deal with "The Glimmer Man," constructing a clever double entendre with that would really require some creative fire, uh.... down below...

That was hilarious.

And yes, a Seagal thread was probably a bad idea on my part. My apologies...

Misogi-no-Gyo

08-17-2009 11:51 AM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Sammy Gray wrote:
(Post 237871)

That was hilarious.

And yes, a Seagal thread was probably a bad idea on my part. My apologies...

Sammy,

Given the host of current threads that discuss variations on the "what's missing in Aikido?" "Why is it hidden in plain sight?" and "How can I get it?" I don't think you starting a thread about Seagal Sensei was a bad idea. See, he pushed people to ask themselves those same questions more than 25 years ago. He managed to rattle many feathers back in the day with those questions. People who are now asking those same questions are rattling feathers, too. There was and still is a certain mandatory level of negative response that should be expected I guess. Of course, Seagal Sensei did it from within the art. Forces that have recently mobilized are from outside of the art. However, things have moved far forward from 25 years ago. As such, the results being achieved today have been more pervasive in terms of their effect. Of course, those same effects have been about as negative as what was attributed to Seagal Sensei, himself. So go figure...

Had you had the opportunity to have studied Aikido with Seagal Sensei back in the late 80's and early 90's you might have said something very different in this thread. However, had that been true, like the rest of us who actually did take advantage of that opportunity, you would have a different perspective, one you more than likely would keep between yourself and your own students.

FWIW

Best in training to you and all...

.

Ron Tisdale

08-17-2009 11:59 AM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

And just a quick note (which means this is just my opinion and it shouldn't be used to beat me about the head and face ;))...

The same thing (being kind of a jerk) could be said about almost anyone at some time or another. For instance, one could pull up, say, *my* posting history on aikiweb, and say "ya know, that guy Ron Tisdale sure has a lot of posts, but he's kind of a jerk..."

You'd even get some to agree with you! :D

Best,
Ron

Misogi-no-Gyo

08-17-2009 12:02 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote:
(Post 237885)

And just a quick note (which means this is just my opinion and it shouldn't be used to beat me about the head and face ;))...

The same thing (being kind of a jerk) could be said about almost anyone at some time or another. For instance, one could pull up, say, *my* posting history on aikiweb, and say "ya know, that guy Ron Tisdale sure has a lot of posts, but he's kind of a jerk..."

As far as being pretentious, most people who actually have something to say about an endeavor they've spent 20 years at can seem pretentious, I guess.
B,
R

Lulu

08-17-2009 12:59 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Sy, thanks for the laughs.
I had never heard of Steven Segal when I started training so I never looked up to him, but now having seen some films and having gone to one of his concerts - only went out of curiosity and got in free- I think that he is kind of a Jerk - but aren't we all at times?

David Orange

08-17-2009 01:43 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Shaun Ravens wrote:
(Post 237884)

Given the host of current threads that discuss variations on the "what's missing in Aikido?" "Why is it hidden in plain sight?" and "How can I get it?" I don't think you starting a thread about Seagal Sensei was a bad idea. See, he pushed people to ask themselves those same questions more than 25 years ago.

Shaun, sorry, but I don't see that at all. He put the "big jerk" back in aikido....(was it missing? did we really need it?) but I have never heard of anything he did related to "internal mechanics" whatsoever. I think he has badly misused aikido for his own glorification and has thereby sent very bad messages into the world, using the very great power of a great martial art to imbed them deeply in the common consciousness--the sick actions of a sick mind.

Quote:

Shaun Ravens wrote:
(Post 237884)

He managed to rattle many feathers back in the day with those questions. People who are now asking those same questions are rattling feathers, too.

Sorry again: what questions? He did emphasize "combat effectiveness" of aikido, but the questions of today are more along the lines of "what internal mechanics powered O Sensei's ability to be immoveable and also unstoppable?" Seagal's only answer seems to be "Be waaaayyy bigger than anyone else, have generally sound aikido technique and execute it without spiritual, moral or ethical concern."

Quote:

Shaun Ravens wrote:
(Post 237884)

There was and still is a certain mandatory level of negative response that should be expected I guess. Of course, Seagal Sensei did it from within the art. Forces that have recently mobilized are from outside of the art. However, things have moved far forward from 25 years ago. As such, the results being achieved today have been more pervasive in terms of their effect. Of course, those same effects have been about as negative as what was attributed to Seagal Sensei, himself. So go figure...

No way, Shaun. The current discussions centered around Mike Sigman, Dan Harden and Minouru Akuzawa/Rob John all concern internal mechanics far more than theoretical "combat effectiveness" (and Segal's "combat effectiveness" seems to include a lot of magical Schwarzenegger-like ability to be unhit by machine gun fire while taking out one-bad-guy-per-bullet-fired from his own pistol).

Aiki is, in large part, a method of communicating from one's own subconscious mind to a would-be attacker's unconscious mind and shutting down the would-be attacker's subconscious confidence and will to attack ("The art of aiki is to overcome the opponent mentally, at a glance, and win without fighting." --Sokaku Takeda).

Segal has used that subconscious communication to deeply imbed justifications for extreme violence into the subconscious mentality of everyone who has watched his movies. His "heroes" are always jerks and the violence is always lovingly glorified. His best work was in two movies: "The Challenge," starring Toshiro Mifune and Scott Glenn, which Segal choreographed; and "Above the Law". Everything after has been a downward spiral (which has been getting faster every year for about the past twenty years. I recently borrowed a few of his latest movies from the library and found them to have sullied my library card. These latest movies show his real character. His early stuff showed tremendous potential, but his latest stuff proves that his misuse of the power of aikido has really rotted his brain, his personality and his acting ability. What schlock.

David

David Orange

08-17-2009 01:47 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote:
(Post 237885)

And just a quick note (which means this is just my opinion and it shouldn't be used to beat me about the head and face ;))...

The same thing (being kind of a jerk) could be said about almost anyone at some time or another. For instance, one could pull up, say, *my* posting history on aikiweb, and say "ya know, that guy Ron Tisdale sure has a lot of posts, but he's kind of a jerk..."

You'd even get some to agree with you!

Ron, you could take all your worst posts, all my worsts posts and all Mike Sigman's worst and put them together in a loaf of bread and they still wouldn't add up to one of Seagal's sneering arm-breaks, where the bones pop out of the guy's arm--or one of the scenes where he busts someone's face repeatedly into a mirror while sneering his jerk remarks at the guy. There just is no comparison.

Best to you.

David

Ron Tisdale

08-17-2009 02:02 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Yause! Hi David. I'm just a pussy cat compared to everyone else on that list! ;) Including Seagal...
B,
R

David Orange

08-17-2009 02:10 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote:
(Post 237913)

Yause! Hi David. I'm just a pussy cat compared to everyone else on that list! ;) Including Seagal...

And for nasty remarks, I've never heard anything out of you like I've posted...

You're okay in my book. Dan had a lot of good to say about you, too.

Best to you.

David

Phil Van Treese

08-17-2009 02:46 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Steven Seagal has an ego, as we all do, and he may be a jerk. If anyone out there can stand up to him, I'd like to see it.

David Orange

08-17-2009 02:58 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Phil Van Treese wrote:
(Post 237922)

Steven Seagal has an ego, as we all do, and he may be a jerk. If anyone out there can stand up to him, I'd like to see it.

Why stand up to someone who's rotting before your eyes???

I do recall his getting into a little challenge match with "Judo" Gene LeBell.

It came up this way on a web search:

"Seagal was allegedly trashing (physically) his stuntmen, hitting them hard, throwing them hard, and hurting them. LeBell, who was a past president of the guild, went to Seagal and called him on it. Words were exchanged, and Seagal opened the festivities by kicking Gene in the groin.

LeBell ignored the kick, shot in and took Seagal's back. He then choked him out. Seagal lost control of his bladder, wetting his pants. He woke up, squared off, and asked LeBell if he'd like to try it again--which he did, successfully."

Like Seagal says, "The bigger they are, the harder they fall."

Kevin Leavitt

08-17-2009 03:36 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

David Orange wrote:

Quote:

Shaun, sorry, but I don't see that at all. He put the "big jerk" back in aikido....(was it missing? did we really need it?) but I have never heard of anything he did related to "internal mechanics" whatsoever. I think he has badly misused aikido for his own glorification and has thereby sent very bad messages into the world, using the very great power of a great martial art to imbed them deeply in the common consciousness--the sick actions of a sick mind

Damn, so that is what is wrong with my aikido! Now I have someone to blame! Frickin Seagal!

David Orange

08-17-2009 04:36 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Kevin Leavitt wrote:
(Post 237933)

Damn, so that is what is wrong with my aikido! Now I have someone to blame! Frickin Seagal!

Welll....don't know about that...but if you do really snappy technique and bash your ukes about unnecessarily....and you've watched a lot of Seagal....could be. On the other hand, from the clip I saw of you doing aikido, you didn't look like that.

Actually, I really liked (and still like) "The Challenge" and I consider "Above the Law" to have some great choreography, but it's all been downhill from there.

Actually, I put Chuck Norris and Seagal on a very similar level: both teach by example that you can "build a case" for extreme violence and that the resulting violence is "better" the more extreme it is. You can totally dehumanize the other guy until anything is ok to do to him. Then they feed us and the impressionable youth of the world images of unleashed hyper-violence.

In Seagal's case, I think it's worse because aikido is a more powerful vehicle for subconscious communication and its techniques are more capable of extreme injury than the stuff Chuck does. Also, Chuck doesn't project that sneering, taunting...."JERK"...image that Seagal has made his trademark. And Chuck doesn't have the reputation in real life of roughing up people who work with him in the movies.

Over the years, Seagal's techniques have gotten so wooden and predictable, a continual deterioration of the choreography in his older movies and the camera shows less and less of the "technique" while keeping that jerk personality shining through.

He has badly misused the great gift of aikido and he's paying the price in his personal life as his movies continue to get worse and worse. IMHO.

David

sammywhip

08-17-2009 04:53 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

It's his desire to hurt people, that's what gives off that impression to me...

David Orange

08-17-2009 04:57 PM

Re: Steven Seagal seems like a jerk teacher. A bit at least...

Quote:

Sammy Gray wrote:
(Post 237946)

It's his desire to hurt people, that's what gives off that impression to me...

Well said. You can just see it oozing out of him; the desire to hurt people, for one, and the desire to be seen as being "able" to hurt people. For a really good look at that, check out "Exit Wounds," based on a book by a police officer who probably was kicked off the force. He goes to anger management and sneers at everyone because he knows he doesn't need to manage his anger. He just needs to hurt more people...which he justifies to the nth degree. A sick mind.