A definite perk to the job. Just tasted this hazy ipa that I do. It’s about a third oats and is very heavily double whirlpooled and double dry hopped with cryo centennial, cryo Amarillo, Columbus, and cryo simcoe. I haven’t crashed it yet but man this is tasty. Love me some cryo.

For my hop forward beers, I cool the wort to 170 and do a whirlpool addition, cool to 160 over about 20 mins and then do a second whirlpool addition, then turn off the pump and let it settle for 20 minutes before knocking out to the fermenter. The idea is to keep as much of the volatile aromatics in the wort as possible.

Cryo hops are essentially double strength. So you use less hops and get more bang. The American Noble hops are the other end. Generally high alpha/high oil content hops that behave more like noble hops because the alphas and oils were processed into cryo hops. So you can use them in lagers and lower hopped beers with the American type hop profile still coming through.

Cryo hops are essentially double strength. So you use less hops and get more bang. The American Noble hops are the other end. Generally high alpha/high oil content hops that behave more like noble hops because the alphas and oils were processed into cryo hops. So you can use them in lagers and lower hopped beers with the American type hop profile still coming through.

Although the cryo may be "double strength" in alpha, since I don't use them for bittering that doesn't come into play for me. I use them for flavor/aroma in at least the same amount as "normal" T90. The advantage for me is a much cleaner, more forward hop character. I just made a lager with the nobles yesterday. I do use them for bittering, but find that most of the bitterness is really an astringency from the polyphenols. Letting the beer cold condition for a while drops those out and I'm left with a smooth restrained bitterness with a background of the American hops the nobles come from. At Hop & Brew School, Annie Johnson had a selection of lagers made with different varieties. All were stunning.

and the american nobles are just less intense (IBU and aroma) versions of american hops? are they cheap? b/c otherwise wouldn't just using the regular version of the american hop at a lower rate be more cost effective?

and the american nobles are just less intense (IBU and aroma) versions of american hops? are they cheap? b/c otherwise wouldn't just using the regular version of the american hop at a lower rate be more cost effective?

No, the American Nobles are nothing like just cutting back the amount of regular hops.