It appears the feel good story of Moritz is over. I havent had a chance to watch either game so far with the exception of now with 5 minutes to go vs seattle. I have not seen Mobo come up in the stat line. Is he even getting any playing time so far?

With that said he is most certainly a lock to head to the practice squad to try to develop with those measurables. However im not quite sure how that works, can anyone just claim a player on another teams PS? A little info on him and the practice squad procedures would be much appreciated.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:04 am

PurpleMustReign

Starting Wide Receiver

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pmPosts: 18250Location: Crystal, MN

Re: The German Unicorn

PurplePeople wrote:

It appears the feel good story of Moritz is over. I havent had a chance to watch either game so far with the exception of now with 5 minutes to go vs seattle. I have not seen Mobo come up in the stat line. Is he even getting any playing time so far?

With that said he is most certainly a lock to head to the practice squad to try to develop with those measurables. However im not quite sure how that works, can anyone just claim a player on another teams PS? A little info on him and the practice squad procedures would be much appreciated.

he was in for a few plays in the first game... I didn't see him in the Seattle game tonight. My guess is at best he gets on the practice squad.

_________________no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:47 am

Texas Vike

Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:52 amPosts: 3552

Re: The German Unicorn

Mobo is very unlikely to get grabbed by anyone. He should make our PS just fine. He's got a long road ahead of him if he's going to make it in the NFL. It's a long shot, but everyone loves the story it seems.

With guys like Thielen playing as polished as he is the gap couldn't be more obvious between our top 5/6 guys and our PS or to be cut players.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:42 am

Mothman

Defensive Tackle

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 amPosts: 37356Location: Chicago, IL

Re: The German Unicorn

Texas Vike wrote:

Mobo is very unlikely to get grabbed by anyone. He should make our PS just fine. He's got a long road ahead of him if he's going to make it in the NFL. It's a long shot, but everyone loves the story it seems.

With guys like Thielen playing as polished as he is the gap couldn't be more obvious between our top 5/6 guys and our PS or to be cut players.

I think perhaps the question we're asking should be: does he deserve to make the practice squad at all?

As you said, everyone loves the story but I still think drafting him was a cavalier use of a 6th round pick. As you pointed out at the time, he played against very low level competition. He's a real long shot and while it's a fun story and it's cool for him that the Vikings were willing to give him a shot, I still can't help thinking that draft pick could have been used on a player with a much better chance to contribute. Maybe that spot in camp could be used likewise and should one of the 10 practice squad spots really go to a player that's such a big project? It's debatable but if he gets that spot, I sure hope it's because he's earned it over the other players also trying to at least make the PS.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:59 am

Texas Vike

Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:52 amPosts: 3552

Re: The German Unicorn

Mothman wrote:

Texas Vike wrote:

Mobo is very unlikely to get grabbed by anyone. He should make our PS just fine. He's got a long road ahead of him if he's going to make it in the NFL. It's a long shot, but everyone loves the story it seems.

With guys like Thielen playing as polished as he is the gap couldn't be more obvious between our top 5/6 guys and our PS or to be cut players.

I think perhaps the question we're asking should be: does he deserve to make the practice squad at all?

As you said, everyone loves the story but I still think drafting him was a cavalier use of a 6th round pick. As you pointed out at the time, he played against very low level competition. He's a real long shot and while it's a fun story and it's cool for him that the Vikings were willing to give him a shot, I still can't help thinking that draft pick could have been used on a player with a much better chance to contribute. Maybe that spot in camp could be used likewise and should one of the 10 practice squad spots really go to a player that's such a big project? It's debatable but if he gets that spot, I sure hope it's because he's earned it over the other players also trying to at least make the PS.

You're right, Jim. I was trying to go easy on the GU fans, I guess. I totally agree with your assessment that we could have used that 6th round pick better; say, an offensive lineman or a QB? We have not invested heavily enough in those positions. Actually, both positions deserve higher than a 6th round pick, but at the VERY least we should have been thinking elsewhere with that pick IMO.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:03 am

PurpleKoolaid

Hall of Famer

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:52 pmPosts: 8226

Re: The German Unicorn

Mothman wrote:

Texas Vike wrote:

Mobo is very unlikely to get grabbed by anyone. He should make our PS just fine. He's got a long road ahead of him if he's going to make it in the NFL. It's a long shot, but everyone loves the story it seems.

With guys like Thielen playing as polished as he is the gap couldn't be more obvious between our top 5/6 guys and our PS or to be cut players.

I think perhaps the question we're asking should be: does he deserve to make the practice squad at all?

As you said, everyone loves the story but I still think drafting him was a cavalier use of a 6th round pick. As you pointed out at the time, he played against very low level competition. He's a real long shot and while it's a fun story and it's cool for him that the Vikings were willing to give him a shot, I still can't help thinking that draft pick could have been used on a player with a much better chance to contribute. Maybe that spot in camp could be used likewise and should one of the 10 practice squad spots really go to a player that's such a big project? It's debatable but if he gets that spot, I sure hope it's because he's earned it over the other players also trying to at least make the PS.

I agree. I would have liked us picking up an Oline guy even with a 6th pick. Maybe one who slipped down the draft because of an injury.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:15 am

fiestavike

Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:03 amPosts: 3304

Re: The German Unicorn

I don't mind using a 6th on a high upside developmental guy. Sure, Moritz is a long shot, but if he's working hard and has a high enough ceiling I'd be inclined to give him a PS spot over a guy like Isaac Freuchte (sp?) who is never going to be more than you #5/6 WR even if he maxes out his potential.

I actually think the conventional wisdom about when to take guys with injury/character risks (4th round) when to take flyers on high production low measurable guys/low production high measurable guys (6th round) makes a good deal of sense.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:57 am

Jordysghost

Packers Suck

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pmPosts: 2992

Re: The German Unicorn

This is a late round developmental pick, did you expect him to do much by now?

The Packers have their very own MoBo in the Jeff Janis, this stuff takes time and development.

I don't mind using a 6th on a high upside developmental guy. Sure, Moritz is a long shot, but if he's working hard and has a high enough ceiling I'd be inclined to give him a PS spot over a guy like Isaac Freuchte (sp?) who is never going to be more than you #5/6 WR even if he maxes out his potential.

I actually think the conventional wisdom about when to take guys with injury/character risks (4th round) when to take flyers on high production low measurable guys/low production high measurable guys (6th round) makes a good deal of sense.

He's such a long shot that I'm not convinced he's really a "high upside" player in the first place. He seems much more like the type of player a team could give a shot as a rookie free agent than someone to spend a draft pick to acquire. however, i think Kevin Siefert summed up what's really happening with Boehringer quite accurately:

In reality, you'll need but a modest degree of cynicism to understand why German wide receiver Moritz Boehringer was a part of the Minnesota Vikings' rookie minicamp Friday. This is not the rags-to-riches story of a young man toiling deep in the Bavarian Alps. (It isn't even a story at all, if you ask Vikings coach Mike Zimmer. We'll get to that in a bit.)

Boehringer is an impressive athlete who has played what amounts to club football. Of more relevance, though, is that he is the product of a pilot program designed to raise interest in the NFL abroad, according to the coach who coordinated his offseason training. Boehringer's arrival is a mixture of marketing, opportunism and a team willing to use a draft pick that historically provides minimal returns, anyway.

Quote:

Moritz Boehringer could well play a significant role in NFL history. But it's far more likely to be as a marketing gateway than as a substantial on-field contributor to an actual team. That's not too cynical, is it?

Maybe he'll beat the odds and the Vikes will actually show the years of patience it will likely take to develop him. I'm not rooting against the guy at all but I suspect Siefert had it right back in May.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:20 am

Mothman

Defensive Tackle

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 amPosts: 37356Location: Chicago, IL

Re: The German Unicorn

Jordysghost wrote:

This is a late round developmental pick, did you expect him to do much by now?

Of course not.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:21 am

fiestavike

Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:03 amPosts: 3304

Re: The German Unicorn

Mothman wrote:

fiestavike wrote:

I don't mind using a 6th on a high upside developmental guy. Sure, Moritz is a long shot, but if he's working hard and has a high enough ceiling I'd be inclined to give him a PS spot over a guy like Isaac Freuchte (sp?) who is never going to be more than you #5/6 WR even if he maxes out his potential.

I actually think the conventional wisdom about when to take guys with injury/character risks (4th round) when to take flyers on high production low measurable guys/low production high measurable guys (6th round) makes a good deal of sense.

He's such a long shot that I'm not convinced he's really a "high upside" player in the first place. He seems much more like the type of player a team could give a shot as a rookie free agent than someone to spend a draft pick to acquire. however, i think Kevin Siefert summed up what's really happening with Boehringer quite accurately:

In reality, you'll need but a modest degree of cynicism to understand why German wide receiver Moritz Boehringer was a part of the Minnesota Vikings' rookie minicamp Friday. This is not the rags-to-riches story of a young man toiling deep in the Bavarian Alps. (It isn't even a story at all, if you ask Vikings coach Mike Zimmer. We'll get to that in a bit.)

Boehringer is an impressive athlete who has played what amounts to club football. Of more relevance, though, is that he is the product of a pilot program designed to raise interest in the NFL abroad, according to the coach who coordinated his offseason training. Boehringer's arrival is a mixture of marketing, opportunism and a team willing to use a draft pick that historically provides minimal returns, anyway.

Quote:

Moritz Boehringer could well play a significant role in NFL history. But it's far more likely to be as a marketing gateway than as a substantial on-field contributor to an actual team. That's not too cynical, is it?

Maybe he'll beat the odds and the Vikes will actually show the years of patience it will likely take to develop him. I'm not rooting against the guy at all but I suspect Siefert had it right back in May.

I'm not sure I fully follow your point, or seiferts. I'm pretty familiar with everything I read there so I just kind of skimmed it. Is the implication that the Vikings were kind of doing the NFL a solid by taking Moritz? I certainly think that's possible, although what that entails behind the scenes is anybodies guess. For example, I feel certain the Rams selected Michael Sam because the NFL didn't want the black eye of looking like the guy was blackballed for being gay. What did the Rams get, if anything from the NFL? I have no idea. Maybe they just took one for the team. Maybe there's a little wink and a nod, we owe you one kind of dynamic.

Anyway, if that's not the insinuation, I think MoBo is just a guy the team took a flyer on because of his ht/wt/spd combo. I do understand your point even his physical upside is limited by how far behind he is, and therefore, he isn't really a high upside player. Its a fair argument.

With regard to international program, I think teams should get an extra PS spot or two which are reserved exclusively for international players so that teams can be developing these guys without sacrificing their competitive edge.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:17 pm

Jordysghost

Packers Suck

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pmPosts: 2992

Re: The German Unicorn

fiestavike wrote:

Mothman wrote:

fiestavike wrote:

I don't mind using a 6th on a high upside developmental guy. Sure, Moritz is a long shot, but if he's working hard and has a high enough ceiling I'd be inclined to give him a PS spot over a guy like Isaac Freuchte (sp?) who is never going to be more than you #5/6 WR even if he maxes out his potential.

I actually think the conventional wisdom about when to take guys with injury/character risks (4th round) when to take flyers on high production low measurable guys/low production high measurable guys (6th round) makes a good deal of sense.

He's such a long shot that I'm not convinced he's really a "high upside" player in the first place. He seems much more like the type of player a team could give a shot as a rookie free agent than someone to spend a draft pick to acquire. however, i think Kevin Siefert summed up what's really happening with Boehringer quite accurately:

In reality, you'll need but a modest degree of cynicism to understand why German wide receiver Moritz Boehringer was a part of the Minnesota Vikings' rookie minicamp Friday. This is not the rags-to-riches story of a young man toiling deep in the Bavarian Alps. (It isn't even a story at all, if you ask Vikings coach Mike Zimmer. We'll get to that in a bit.)

Boehringer is an impressive athlete who has played what amounts to club football. Of more relevance, though, is that he is the product of a pilot program designed to raise interest in the NFL abroad, according to the coach who coordinated his offseason training. Boehringer's arrival is a mixture of marketing, opportunism and a team willing to use a draft pick that historically provides minimal returns, anyway.

Quote:

Moritz Boehringer could well play a significant role in NFL history. But it's far more likely to be as a marketing gateway than as a substantial on-field contributor to an actual team. That's not too cynical, is it?

Maybe he'll beat the odds and the Vikes will actually show the years of patience it will likely take to develop him. I'm not rooting against the guy at all but I suspect Siefert had it right back in May.

I'm not sure I fully follow your point, or seiferts. I'm pretty familiar with everything I read there so I just kind of skimmed it. Is the implication that the Vikings were kind of doing the NFL a solid by taking Moritz? I certainly think that's possible, although what that entails behind the scenes is anybodies guess. For example, I feel certain the Rams selected Michael Sam because the NFL didn't want the black eye of looking like the guy was blackballed for being gay. What did the Rams get, if anything from the NFL? I have no idea. Maybe they just took one for the team. Maybe there's a little wink and a nod, we owe you one kind of dynamic.

Anyway, if that's not the insinuation, I think MoBo is just a guy the team took a flyer on because of his ht/wt/spd combo. I do understand your point even his physical upside is limited by how far behind he is, and therefore, he isn't really a high upside player. Its a fair argument.

With regard to international program, I think teams should get an extra PS spot or two which are reserved exclusively for international players so that teams can be developing these guys without sacrificing their competitive edge.

If MoBo was drafted just as a favor to the NFL, Spielman should be fired.

I'm not sure I fully follow your point, or seiferts. I'm pretty familiar with everything I read there so I just kind of skimmed it. Is the implication that the Vikings were kind of doing the NFL a solid by taking Moritz? I certainly think that's possible, although what that entails behind the scenes is anybodies guess. For example, I feel certain the Rams selected Michael Sam because the NFL didn't want the black eye of looking like the guy was blackballed for being gay. What did the Rams get, if anything from the NFL? I have no idea. Maybe they just took one for the team. Maybe there's a little wink and a nod, we owe you one kind of dynamic.

I think that might be the case and Michael Sam also occurred to me as another example. Both picks seem like PR moves and, as you said, what that entails behind the scenes is anybody's guess (maybe the Vikes and Rams really did just take one for the team).

Quote:

Anyway, if that's not the insinuation, I think MoBo is just a guy the team took a flyer on because of his ht/wt/spd combo. I do understand your point even his physical upside is limited by how far behind he is, and therefore, he isn't really a high upside player. Its a fair argument.

With regard to international program, I think teams should get an extra PS spot or two which are reserved exclusively for international players so that teams can be developing these guys without sacrificing their competitive edge.

That's an excellent idea.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:32 pm

Mothman

Defensive Tackle

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 amPosts: 37356Location: Chicago, IL

Re: The German Unicorn

Jordysghost wrote:

If MoBo was drafted just as a favor to the NFL, Spielman should be fired.

If it was a favor to the league, it might not have even been his call. It could have been a Wilf decision.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:33 pm

Jordysghost

Packers Suck

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pmPosts: 2992

Re: The German Unicorn

Mothman wrote:

Jordysghost wrote:

If MoBo was drafted just as a favor to the NFL, Spielman should be fired.

If it was a favor to the league, it might not have even been his call. It could have been a Wilf decision.

I really, really doubt that. Idk what 'favor' you would even be doing the league, MoBo isn't the first international player to garner late round interest.

I'm not sure I fully follow your point, or seiferts. I'm pretty familiar with everything I read there so I just kind of skimmed it. Is the implication that the Vikings were kind of doing the NFL a solid by taking Moritz? I certainly think that's possible, although what that entails behind the scenes is anybodies guess. For example, I feel certain the Rams selected Michael Sam because the NFL didn't want the black eye of looking like the guy was blackballed for being gay. What did the Rams get, if anything from the NFL? I have no idea. Maybe they just took one for the team. Maybe there's a little wink and a nod, we owe you one kind of dynamic.

I think that might be the case and Michael Sam also occurred to me as another example. Both picks seem like PR moves and, as you said, what that entails behind the scenes is anybody's guess (maybe the Vikes and Rams really did just take one for the team).

Quote:

Anyway, if that's not the insinuation, I think MoBo is just a guy the team took a flyer on because of his ht/wt/spd combo. I do understand your point even his physical upside is limited by how far behind he is, and therefore, he isn't really a high upside player. Its a fair argument.

With regard to international program, I think teams should get an extra PS spot or two which are reserved exclusively for international players so that teams can be developing these guys without sacrificing their competitive edge.

That's an excellent idea.

While I think the idea of Sam being a pr move is far fetched in its own right, MoBo being one to me seems ridiculous, the guy was drafted pretty much about where expected, im not getting the rationale behind thinking it was some kind of PR move.

I don't like Fiesta last idea because it seems pretty unfair to offer such a thing to developmental prospects from outside the country, while not also offering such a thing for developmental players from within. (D3 players, Arena players etc. etc.)

I don't like Fiesta last idea because it seems pretty unfair to offer such a thing to developmental prospects from outside the country, while not also offering such a thing for developmental players from within. (D3 players, Arena players etc. etc.)

If the league has a legitimate financial interest in developing the game internationally (which they do) and they believe international players are essential to that, I think it seems at least strategically sound to consider some kind of roster exemption for international players. I don't think they're particularly concerned about equal oportunity for D3 players.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:55 pm

Jordysghost

Packers Suck

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pmPosts: 2992

Re: The German Unicorn

fiestavike wrote:

Jordysghost wrote:

I don't like Fiesta last idea because it seems pretty unfair to offer such a thing to developmental prospects from outside the country, while not also offering such a thing for developmental players from within. (D3 players, Arena players etc. etc.)

If the league has a legitimate financial interest in developing the game internationally (which they do) and they believe international players are essential to that, I think it seems at least strategically sound to consider some kind of roster exemption for international players. I don't think they're particularly concerned about equal oportunity for D3 players.

Which isn't even remotely fair in any sense. Not only is that giving an unfair advantage to individual players over another set of individual players, it is giving an unfair advantage to teams with international players in comparison to teams without them.

Could you say 'Well then teams should look harder at players from amongst the international pool to keep up.' Sure, but that is pigeon holing teams into players that they otherwise might not be interested in which is not good for the game, imo.

I don't like Fiesta last idea because it seems pretty unfair to offer such a thing to developmental prospects from outside the country, while not also offering such a thing for developmental players from within. (D3 players, Arena players etc. etc.)

If the league has a legitimate financial interest in developing the game internationally (which they do) and they believe international players are essential to that, I think it seems at least strategically sound to consider some kind of roster exemption for international players. I don't think they're particularly concerned about equal oportunity for D3 players.

Which isn't even remotely fair in any sense.

Who cares?

Quote:

Not only is that giving an unfair advantage to individual players over another set of individual players, it is giving an unfair advantage to teams with international players in comparison to teams without them.

I'm pretty sure they could find a way to implement it that would mitigate advantages to teams that already have those players on the roster. I think the bigger complication is who gets to count as international. Certainly, lots of teams have Hatian players, but this is of almost no use to the NFLs goal of developing overseas markets since Haiti is a very poor country. I'd have no objection to them simply creating a list of nations where they want to see the league's brand enhanced and counting players from those countries as eligible, but would the PC, "its not fair" crowd make it a PR nightmare?

Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:21 pm

Jordysghost

Packers Suck

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pmPosts: 2992

Re: The German Unicorn

fiestavike wrote:

Jordysghost wrote:

fiestavike wrote:

If the league has a legitimate financial interest in developing the game internationally (which they do) and they believe international players are essential to that, I think it seems at least strategically sound to consider some kind of roster exemption for international players. I don't think they're particularly concerned about equal oportunity for D3 players.

Which isn't even remotely fair in any sense.

Who cares?

Quote:

Not only is that giving an unfair advantage to individual players over another set of individual players, it is giving an unfair advantage to teams with international players in comparison to teams without them.

I'm pretty sure they could find a way to implement it that would mitigate advantages to teams that already have those players on the roster. I think the bigger complication is who gets to count as international. Certainly, lots of teams have Hatian players, but this is of almost no use to the NFLs goal of developing overseas markets since Haiti is a very poor country. I'd have no objection to them simply creating a list of nations where they want to see the league's brand enhanced and counting players from those countries as eligible, but would the PC, "its not fair" crowd make it a PR nightmare?

I care, the players subject to disadvantage would care, a lot of other fans would care, but most importantly, the NFLPA would care, I cant imagine they would ever stand for such a blatant discrepancy in treatment between players. (Also, I reject the premise that this an issue of 'political correctness' and more so an issue of basic fairness)

Again, you would be pigeon holing players onto teams that wouldn't be interested in them otherwise and imo, that is not good for the game.

Everyone is a long shot in the 6th round. I think a guy like MoBo is the exact type you want to go out and grab in the 6th or 7th. Someone without a lot of experience but off the chart athleticism. You either go that direction or someone who had a ton of production in college but fell because they didn't have the measurables. In either case, it's all a crap shoot by those rounds.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:15 pm

Mothman

Defensive Tackle

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 amPosts: 37356Location: Chicago, IL

Re: The German Unicorn

S197 wrote:

Everyone is a long shot in the 6th round. I think a guy like MoBo is the exact type you want to go out and grab in the 6th or 7th. Someone without a lot of experience but off the chart athleticism. You either go that direction or someone who had a ton of production in college but fell because they didn't have the measurables. In either case, it's all a crap shoot by those rounds.

I know what you're saying but there are long shots and then there LONG shots. Scouting and solid football experience should still count for something in the 6th round and that pick is also something that can be packaged to move up. In my view, MoBo isn't the type of player you spend a 6th round pick on. Thats eems like maximizing the risk of the investment. To me, he's clearly the type of player a team should sign as a free agent after the draft: all athleticism with little practical experience, a pure project. Players like him work out even more rarely than late round picks. In the 6th round, there are still good football players with enough experience to potentially make the roster and contribute, players like John Sullivan, Brandon Fusco, Blair Walsh or Shamar Stephen.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:19 pm

Raptorman

Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:23 pmPosts: 3176Location: Sebastian, FL

Re: The German Unicorn

Jordysghost wrote:

This is a late round developmental pick, did you expect him to do much by now?

Why yes I do! I expect him to be the Tom Brady of Wide receivers! Anything less is a disappointment.

Everyone is a long shot in the 6th round. I think a guy like MoBo is the exact type you want to go out and grab in the 6th or 7th. Someone without a lot of experience but off the chart athleticism. You either go that direction or someone who had a ton of production in college but fell because they didn't have the measurables. In either case, it's all a crap shoot by those rounds.

I know what you're saying but there are long shots and then there LONG shots. Scouting and solid football experience should still count for something in the 6th round and that pick is also something that can be packaged to move up. In my view, MoBo isn't the type of player you spend a 6th round pick on. Thats eems like maximizing the risk of the investment. To me, he's clearly the type of player a team should sign as a free agent after the draft: all athleticism with little practical experience, a pure project. Players like him work out even more rarely than late round picks. In the 6th round, there are still good football players with enough experience to potentially make the roster and contribute, players like John Sullivan, Brandon Fusco, Blair Walsh or Shamar Stephen.

I had forgotten Sullivan and Fusco were 6th rounders (I was thinking 5th for some reason). I decided to go back and look at our 6th round picks over the last 10 years. They are:

So 3/15 are solid contributors, with 2/15 playing modest roles at some point (Raymond, Webb). So unscientifically speaking, roughly a 1 in 3 chance of finding a guy that makes an impact on the team. Honestly, that's a little higher than I was expecting, I thought it would be around 20%. So I get where you're coming from and I guess the question then becomes does a guy with TE size and WR speed mitigate lack of experience and body of work. You can make an argument either way.

What I will say is I don't think this was just a "feel good" story pick. Mayock was impressed with him as were other scouts (assuming you believe Mayock). So I do think there's something tangible there, whether or not it comes to fruition, I don't know that anyone really expected to know that at this point in his career.

Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:17 pm

Texas Vike

Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:52 amPosts: 3552

Re: The German Unicorn

S197 wrote:

Mothman wrote:

S197 wrote:

Everyone is a long shot in the 6th round. I think a guy like MoBo is the exact type you want to go out and grab in the 6th or 7th. Someone without a lot of experience but off the chart athleticism. You either go that direction or someone who had a ton of production in college but fell because they didn't have the measurables. In either case, it's all a crap shoot by those rounds.

I know what you're saying but there are long shots and then there LONG shots. Scouting and solid football experience should still count for something in the 6th round and that pick is also something that can be packaged to move up. In my view, MoBo isn't the type of player you spend a 6th round pick on. Thats eems like maximizing the risk of the investment. To me, he's clearly the type of player a team should sign as a free agent after the draft: all athleticism with little practical experience, a pure project. Players like him work out even more rarely than late round picks. In the 6th round, there are still good football players with enough experience to potentially make the roster and contribute, players like John Sullivan, Brandon Fusco, Blair Walsh or Shamar Stephen.

I had forgotten Sullivan and Fusco were 6th rounders (I was thinking 5th for some reason). I decided to go back and look at our 6th round picks over the last 10 years. They are:

So 3/15 are solid contributors, with 2/15 playing modest roles at some point (Raymond, Webb). So unscientifically speaking, roughly a 1 in 3 chance of finding a guy that makes an impact on the team. Honestly, that's a little higher than I was expecting, I thought it would be around 20%. So I get where you're coming from and I guess the question then becomes does a guy with TE size and WR speed mitigate lack of experience and body of work. You can make an argument either way.

What I will say is I don't think this was just a "feel good" story pick. Mayock was impressed with him as were other scouts (assuming you believe Mayock). So I do think there's something tangible there, whether or not it comes to fruition, I don't know that anyone really expected to know that at this point in his career.

Thanks for putting that analysis together. I enjoyed reading it. I agree with you that MoBo was likely more than just a feel good pick, he has potential, no doubt about it. My gripe is more along these lines: we REALLY needed to address OL. Why take a WR when we had already invested a high pick in Treadwell and have a similar athletic freak (CP), who is much closer to being a contributor, but similarly needs some refinement before he can crack the starting lineup.

I get it. BPA, right? Honestly, if I were GM I'd have gone with BOTA (best OT available). I mean, if they're going to go with this BS quantity over quality investment in the position, then we needed to do it with draft picks too.

Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:04 am

Mothman

Defensive Tackle

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 amPosts: 37356Location: Chicago, IL

Re: The German Unicorn

S197 wrote:

So 3/15 are solid contributors, with 2/15 playing modest roles at some point (Raymond, Webb). So unscientifically speaking, roughly a 1 in 3 chance of finding a guy that makes an impact on the team. Honestly, that's a little higher than I was expecting, I thought it would be around 20%. So I get where you're coming from and I guess the question then becomes does a guy with TE size and WR speed mitigate lack of experience and body of work. You can make an argument either way.

Indeed and this is a pretty extreme case. We're talking about an extreme lack of experience and thus a player facing a massive learning curve. This isn't even Cordarrelle Patterson, with one year of major college football experience to go with loads of athletic talent. Boehringer is making a quantum leap in both the level of competition and the complexity of the playbook. When weighed against other potential uses for the work, I think it's difficult to make a compelling case for the choice.

Quote:

What I will say is I don't think this was just a "feel good" story pick. Mayock was impressed with him as were other scouts (assuming you believe Mayock). So I do think there's something tangible there, whether or not it comes to fruition, I don't know that anyone really expected to know that at this point in his career.

What's there is size and athleticism but I question whether the Vikings will be willing to make the likely 3 or 4 year commitment to developing this player, especially after they spent a 1st round pick on Patterson and their commitment to developing him as a receiver has appeared questionable (to me anyway). If they weren't willing to show more patience with a first round investment that cost them multiple picks, it's hard to believe they'll make that 3+ year commitment to a long shot and if they won't, the pick was pretty pointless from the start unless it was a PR move for the league.

If he makes the practice squad, that will tell us a little more about their level of commitment.

Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:09 am

fiestavike

Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:03 amPosts: 3304

Re: The German Unicorn

Mothman wrote:

S197 wrote:

So 3/15 are solid contributors, with 2/15 playing modest roles at some point (Raymond, Webb). So unscientifically speaking, roughly a 1 in 3 chance of finding a guy that makes an impact on the team. Honestly, that's a little higher than I was expecting, I thought it would be around 20%. So I get where you're coming from and I guess the question then becomes does a guy with TE size and WR speed mitigate lack of experience and body of work. You can make an argument either way.

Indeed and this is a pretty extreme case. We're talking about an extreme lack of experience and thus a player facing a massive learning curve. This isn't even Cordarrelle Patterson, with one year of major college football experience to go with loads of athletic talent. Boehringer is making a quantum leap in both the level of competition and the complexity of the playbook. When weighed against other potential uses for the work, I think it's difficult to make a compelling case for the choice.

Quote:

What I will say is I don't think this was just a "feel good" story pick. Mayock was impressed with him as were other scouts (assuming you believe Mayock). So I do think there's something tangible there, whether or not it comes to fruition, I don't know that anyone really expected to know that at this point in his career.

What's there is size and athleticism but I question whether the Vikings will be willing to make the likely 3 or 4 year commitment to developing this player, especially after they spent a 1st round pick on Patterson and their commitment to developing him as a receiver has appeared questionable (to me anyway). If they weren't willing to show more patience with a first round investment that cost them multiple picks, it's hard to believe they'll make that 3+ year commitment to a long shot and if they won't, the pick was pretty pointless from the start unless it was a PR move for the league.

If he makes the practice squad, that will tell us a little more about their level of commitment.

I don't think there is anything unfair about your take on this. He's clearly a long term (and long shot) project, but they have given Freuchte 3 years already I think, so its not as though they don't have a track record of trying to invest in a longshot WR.

Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:38 pm

mondry

Hall of Famer

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:53 pmPosts: 8448

Re: The German Unicorn

fiestavike wrote:

I don't think there is anything unfair about your take on this. He's clearly a long term (and long shot) project, but they have given Freuchte 3 years already I think, so its not as though they don't have a track record of trying to invest in a longshot WR.

Agreed, and like it or not there is a big difference between how you have to handle a first round pick like Patterson and a 6th round flier on a guy like MoBo. Neither player was even close to ready to play in the NFL but you have to give the 1st rounder reps in real games and deal with the mistakes. The mistakes started to heavily out weigh the production and they had to pull the plug which I completely understand. You can't let one player hurt your team that much just for the sake of developing that one player.

They can afford to take it slow with MoBo though because there isn't that same level of commitment or expectation in him so there's no real harm in seeing what happens with him over time on the practice squad, as long as they deem him worthy of the spot that is.

Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:34 pm

S197

Fenrir

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pmPosts: 10986Location: Hawaii

Re: The German Unicorn

Right, when you are paying a guy the minimum salary vs 1st round money, it affords you more flexibility. Thielen is another player who they've given several years and looks like he could potentially pay dividends this year. And that might really be key to MoBo, can he contribute on special teams like Thielen was able to.