The current PSA PerfectWave DAC sounds so wonderful and musical feeding Decware direct that I can't imagine what the DirectStream will sound like. Lets just say I wait in great anticipation for the community reviews to start trickling in. Most of my music is Redbook CD, and the thought of getting more information from this format is certainly appealing.

I just researched the Sony HAP Beowulf. Man Sony pisses me off. I have to with my extensive CD collection, one would need to rip CDs to my computer and then transfer the files via ethernet to the HAP-Z1ES.

Not the end of the world to do this. However, really Sony, no S/PDIF input? ....as used with the PS Direct Stream Digital.

Anyway, getting more from our PCM CD's is awesome and appealing as you stated Lon & Dave. I think I will wait until this time next year instead of this fall purchase. I want to see what more of the competiton will do. Furthermore, PS Audio and their Firmware updates (might not apply to this new DSDAC)....drive me crazy.

All in all, very exciting. I would buy the Sony HAP right now....for 2K if it could accept S/PDIF.....Sony you bums. -S

stone said,I just researched the Sony HAP Beowulf. Man Sony pisses me off. I have to with my extensive CD collection, one would need to rip CDs to my computer and then transfer the files via ethernet to the HAP-Z1ES.

Not the end of the world to do this. However, really Sony, no S/PDIF input? ....as used with the PS Direct Stream Digital.

Hi Stone, yes I agree if you are not ripped this would be a big pain in the a$$ however I like the fact that Sony is on board with DSD and after some previewers already mentioning that SPDIF is nowhere in sight perhaps Sony may come out with another more thought out component for others.

Quote:

stone said,The AURALiC Vega has my attention!

This might be happening for me soon. I will report back. -S

This one peaked my interest as well, I would love to hear more if you decide to check one out!

SPDIF has a 96k bandwidth limit - I'm really unsure how PS Audio is using this. If it was only *internal*, they could be using it to electrically de-couple sections of the circuit, they could be using high end transceivers and real glass fiber. But *external*, standard SPDIF, is a plastic fiber and limited to 96k.

Bottom Line currently: What's available in Hi-Rez is didly squat. What is important is using Balanced or Unbalanced inputs and outputs to get PCM processed to rival Hi-Rez....SACD et all... .

Why is this important? For those of us that have extensive PCM Audio collections that is why! ....that is why Hi-Rez means squat to me. I am NOT Paying TWICE for my MUSIC Collection and I use a AUDIO ALCHEMY DTI-PRO32 to wring the most out of PCM. Only, when the CD is no longer manufactured/obsolete....then I will....obviously, with one these Processors download/purchase ~NEW ~ Music.....AND WHY AURALIC, SONY & PS AUDIO ARE MAKING SURE PCM IS BEING COVERED and turned into something special through these processors. Albeit, the Sony from hard drive files. Sony might add Balanced and/or Unbalanced inputs for PCM later on another Processor like Beowulf eluded to in his last post.

Auralic and PS Audio "get it"....PCM needs to still come from my Transport for convenience!

Anyway, John Atkinson & Chris Martins.....you know are waiting to get their hands on the PS Audio DSD to compare to the Auralic (Reviews they just did)!

.....then of course, if the Auralic Vega is compared favorably to the 6K PS Audio...the Auralic will jump from 3499.95 TO 4695.00. I think I will get the Vega now! Plus, the Auralic has a preamp with a 100 step attenuator (digital domain yes...you just use it at its upper limits)...that added value will put it at 4695.00 soon. -S

SPDIF has a 96k bandwidth limit - I'm really unsure how PS Audio is using this. If it was only *internal*, they could be using it to electrically de-couple sections of the circuit, they could be using high end transceivers and real glass fiber. But *external*, standard SPDIF, is a plastic fiber and limited to 96k.

Many companies are ditching it going forward I've read.

SPDIF TOSlink can only do 96, but SPDIF Coax can do 24/192. USB has quickly surpassed both of them at 384kHz. With the gains USB is making in both bandwidth and aftermarket jitter reduction technologies it has quickly become one of the better ports for audio reproduction.

I have great musical involvement with my recent infusion of the ZMA and continue to have it with my SE84CS with my Front End on both Amps (CKC too). So, why change anything right? So other than the CSP3 coming in....which I am very excited about.....I'm letting this Sleeping Dog (for me) lay still on this subject. ..........but I'll be watching the Sony's/Auralic's/PS Audio's and others....will see what best distills out over time. -S

I hear you Lar. I just finished listening to the Blu-Spec 2 cd version of Charles Mingus "Mingus Ah Um" and I have never heard it like that, just amazing sound that took me deep into an album that I have heard since the early 'eighties. It doesn't at this time have to be better than this!

I wouldn't mind a demo of the new PS Audio device *with my gear* to see what all the fuss it about...but I'm afraid what that might do.

Thanks for the clarification on the Toslink and Coax - I just assume Toslink when we're talking SPDIF as usually it's (correctly or not) usually stated as SPDIF or Coax or Toslink or Coax (which is more clear)

I know what is going to happen. Once production settles in down in Boulder.....Music Direct is already carrying it. They say 2-3 weeks on their product page....but we know it is out until late May or June pulled from the pre-stock count down on PS's product purchase page... .

I will have one in from Music Direct....AND if it is revelatory.....ouooch.......it is going to happen on the VISA........... . Then it will be a Kraft Macaroni & Cheese rest of Summer & Fall for me....but with Music from the Angels! -S

For me, at this stage, I am compelled to enter this Rabbit Hole. I am so intrigued with Tim Smith & Gus....and it makes sense, to join forces with that whole Boulder Group down there via Paul McGowan and the economies of scale/infrastructure he has in place, to hit up Production with him... .

I have met a few of the Tim Smith's of the world...and their passion for software development is contagious. Of course, for me, it is vicariously, my ex-wife is a software person for Medtronic...where I have met some of the nicest Tim Smith's of the world....Bermuda Shorts and bare feet and all. -S

ParentingThe first 10 DirectStream DACs are finished and ready for me to listen to in Music Room One. The first of the 10 sailed through test and is on its way to our Community Forums leader, Gordon, because he is not only one of the best listeners I know but he tells it like it is – even if IT isn’t good.

In Music Room One that first DAC sounded nearly identical to the reference; a reference I have vetted over the months and have every confidence in. But how will it sound at someone else’s home and system? It’s always at this point I get nervous. When the first new product goes out into the world, untethered from its parent and asked to fly on its own, is the scariest moment for the team that designed it, cared for it, nurtured it and taught it what it needs to know to succeed. Sounds a lot like parenting. Probably just as scary.

It’s odd. On the one hand you have complete confidence in something. On the other, you’re scared you missed something.

This cycle of birth and release from under the wing to fly on its own has been a process that’s been going on since time immemorial.

The DirectStream DAC has been playing and burning in on the Bridge input for a bit over 24 hours. It is cool that I just touch a button and get a drop in gain in case anyone wants to sleep through the night while the music continues to play. I mentioned earlier, there are some thoughtful and welcome changes to the front panel that feel, well, just more 21st century than the old one.

My Set up for Perspective.Mac Mini running JRMC with cat-6 ethernet connected to the DS/Bridge.Single ended rca from DS to First Sound tube pre-amp and single ended to Jeff Rowland MC-6 amp running in “high current” mode and connected with Shunyata “Lyra” speaker cables to a pair of healthy, but vintage, Wilson Watt3/Puppy2 speakers.

The general signature of my system is pretty neutral. The Wilsons, in some set ups, can tend to be a bit analytical.A few years ago I swapped out the Puppy drivers for the ones that are supplied in the newer 7 and 8 series. They are not necessarily “warmer” but just a bit “fuller”.This and the tube pre-amp into the Rowland SS amp has pretty much provided me with a system that just plays what is there and you either love it or you don’t.

Oh, “and just one more thing”.

My honey came home last evening from a few days trip and a neighbor’s wife popped in to say hi for a few minutes.Music was playing pretty loud and I was sitting with a note pad throwing some words on it when she asked “what are you doing, now”?

Well, “see that silver box over there”? I am listening to it.The look on her face was a classic. Somewhere between a stern policewoman and a compassionate psyche ward nurse.“OKaaaaa” she said, walking away.

It dawned on me that what I had said could sound pretty ridiculous to many people and give the impression that “Audiophileism” does strange things to grown men over time.

My list of things to check like stage, timbre, tone, articulation, energy, presence, emotion, yada yada yada can be summed up in ONE word.

YES!

Perhaps you were awaiting some thesis on the DS that would be “over the top” positive to justify that you have a DS or kit on order and whether you can afford it or not.I had many PMs begging for a comparison to my PWD , which , by the way is just another little box but happens to be black.So one box to another? really?

The PWD, as most of us know, rings all the bells in the above buzz words and rings then loud and clear. The subjectivity is in the degree for each descriptive and can vary depending on the equipment used and the ears of the listener.

The PWD is GOLD.The DirectStream DAC is PLATINUM+.

It does EVERYTHING the PWD does, it just does them all better.

Timbre, for example was remarkable with PWD MKII and nativeX. The separation of attack, tone and decay were well discussed here after the MKII upgrade.The already VG sound stage is even better now .What does better mean? Wider, higher, deeper? NO. “MORE REAL”.

So I am going to let the review experts delve more deeply into the “fine details” and I’ll try to sum up the bottom line for this new DAC.

From the first few minutes of listening I felt that something was very different.I took out my buzz word list so I could start dissecting the “what is different” and of course “was it a better, different?”I kept getting distracted from my list. Yes, by the MUSIC.My body was toe-tapping, my shoulders moving, WTF.?

The difference, with this DAC is that it SOUNDS RIGHT!

The timing is spot on. The instruments sound REAL for the first time.Not Analog real, or Organic real etc, JUST real like it is somehow supposed to be in nature. Like “you are there”? You be the judge of that. I think we have never been closer.

So far I have limited my listening to red book to see if what Ted and Paul were saying held true for me.Yes, it does seem like some instruments have more presence and they have this without becoming more forward. Tabla and high hats etc are now more part of the performance. Is this because of “more info” on the CD? I am not sure and quite frankly, I don’t care.It is just there and if I were to rate this baby compared to PWD then it would be a 10-15% improvement on all the buzz words but a whole new experience in the “realness” of what this “BOX” delivers.

I hope to listen to some hi-rez and DSD files today. I am not so sure that I will be posting whether flac-192 sounds better than DSD64 yada yada,.It really doesn’t matter.What you put in to this baby is what you get out. If the red book is well produced it will be really yummy. If not, you will just not play it as often."REAL" is what I think I have been striving for all these years.And, "REAL" it is!To quote a fellow Canadian starship commander "ENGAGE".

tedsmith 4:03PMPosts: 173Member, PS ExpertMy design goal was to get people's feet to tap. I'd witnessed for years that when I heard jitter people were a little more on edge. When I didn't hear jitter their feet tapped. I only make changes to my system that cause me to tap my feet more. If I tap less (or worse listen less) I know I've gone too far or just screwed up. When I have people over to listen or I take my DAC to other places I don't care what they say, I watch their feet.

Most people won't worry about how it compares to a PWD after they hear it. They enjoy the DS more and see no reason to care about how or why it's different.

P.S. I consulted on the MkII, or more properly we all had a brainstorming session and I suggested a list of possible ways to lower jitter (get people's feet to tap more). They chose from that list a subset that they thought were interesting/possible/practical/whatever and not a little of the MkII difference from the original PWD comes from the same point of view as the DS.- See more at: http://www.psaudio.com/vanilla/discussion/6605/directstream-dac-first-impression...

Yeah, but I'm really looking forward to hearing what he says about 24/96, as that's what I've been leaning towards lately.

And I'm also curious/concerned with ripped files. I have my whole CD collection ripped to FLAC, and I'm wondering if rips sounds any different (better/worse) than the original CD. I'm guessing it probably wouldn't matter, but I'm curious.

I can absolutely hear a difference between the original CD and my ripped FLAC, the FLAC files off local hard drive sound *better* than the original CD - I figure it's jitter related - and Oppo agrees. Though the number crunchers and math-musicians say it's impossible for me to hear a difference, that on paper it's all the same or below the humans ability to hear jitter. Ted Smith seems to agree with me, as does Oppo.

I am a curmudgeon about hi-rez...for obvious reasons of not wanting to duplicate what I have on CD and the Library of 24/96...DSD et. all, is low... . New music I want though....I watch...will see what continues to happen/develope... .

However, you nailed it about FLAC files reducing jitter. I agree with you and Ted Smith. I have to start preserving my CD collection anyway, a good chunk at a time... . I will eventually have it all on an external hard drive besides the hard drive in front of me right now.

The PS DSD is really all about taking those FLAC files to a higher plane over the PWD (Perfect Wave Dac's) Native for 44.1. Which, quite frankly, I was not impressed because I have a good front end to compare it too. I am glad I returned the PWT & PWD....and will potentially get this DSD gig/rig 8-). -S

I find the PWT and PWD together improves the sound of Redbook. The material goes through two digital lenses, really cool results. (Stone, you didn't put enough hours on that pair to really hear what it can do). I like Hi-res but really well reproduced Redbook is awesome enough, and I have over 15,000 cds now. Gulp.

Gordon's reports sound great. I'll probably convert one of my PWD Mk IIs into a DirectStream in time, but I'm not going to be an early adopter. (Nor will I be a Decware early adopter again).

The DTI Pro32, Digital Lens ( in front of Redbook DACS) & Camelot Uther DAC still dragon slay todays contemporary DACS/Emperor's new clothes. If they did not ....I WOULD OWN ONE of THE NEWER DACS now or years ago.

Stone, it took in excess fo 500 hours before I experienced what I have now experienced with each of my PWT and PWD combos. They just don't happen til then and longer. I still say you didn't get to hear what they do.

I heard AA gear in the early nineties, and read all about them in the mags I used to read at the time. It was nice and I didn't listen much to be honest and not in my system. There have been a lot of advances since then. I'm sure your front end is great. . . but you said you couldn't stand the tame top end of the PWD and if that is so I would need ear plugs to listen to yours. YIKES!

Okay, we'll agree to disagree on this one. I'm glad I have what I have and not what you have and vice versa. Because I don't need all that high end.

The Duos have changed a LOT between 100 and 500 hours for me, and even more after about 2000. And clearly have been better than anything else I've heard in my home. Sometimes you need to go the distance. Sorry, it's not emperor's new clothes.

Roger that Lon.... seldom is it a good thing to be "on point".... the early bird may get the worm, but the 2nd mouse gets the cheese....there were a few companies doing digital in the 90's that were way ahead of the times. I once owned the original AA DDE v1.0 and later the DDE v3.0 and its partnering anti-jitter box, the DTI, but moved on to Theta Digital products after that which were much more "real" sounding to me. I still own one Theta product, as well as a Sony ES player, an Emotiva unit and Wyred4Sound dac2. To my ears... most of the "latest & greatest", "flavor of the month" DAC's in the past 10 years just sound "different"... not necessarily "better" than my vintage Theta. I'll give PS' DirectStream unit a listen in 3-4 months from now - after the dust settles and see if it's really revolutionary or just "different". There is no "objective" information out there yet... all subjective opinions and subjective opinions from its creators and/or those involved with its development no less... hardly a definitive source of objective information - or even an unbiased opinion.

This has been an interesting thread hearing every ones view points. I am not heavily invested into cd's yet and am having a hard time finding quality sounding cd's. I am able to get them but mostly leaning out of my typical music style I listen to regularly. Most of my wife's older motown music sounds horrible all related to recording quality great music just bad quality recordings. I do like hearing the smoothness of my system and a lot of recordings such as Celine Dion and John Hiatt sound excellent do to mostly being newer recordings. I haven't had the time to get my vinyl up and running yet to make the comparison. Lon, If you by chance read this what is your favorite cd's or vinyl? I realize your heavily into both so I figured you would be a good source to ask.

Are you asking what are my favorite cds and lps or what are the ones I think sound best or really good?

I expect most recordings I like to not really sound that great. And I don't seek out recordings just because they sound good. My struggle has been to find a system that helps all my recordings to sound better. So extreme detail and extreme fidelity to the recording are often my enemies. The Torii Mk III and its amazing flexibility and the PS Audio PWD Mk II are key components in that regard because they bring the best out of ordinary recordings.

My "favorites" are always changing. I would say look at the "What's Spinning" thread to see the music I am playing. I play stuff that I really like listening to.

As far as cds go I've been really fascinated by the difference that Blu-Spec and Blu-Spec 2 cd processes/materials make on playback. Shouldn't make any difference, especially in a player that uses a digital buffer to make "perfect" playback of cds, but it does make a difference (I have the same masrtering on earlier issues to compare with). I think they sound very very good. So I would say if you see an album you really like available on Blu-Spec or Blu-Spec 2 get it and experience it in this format (but don't hesitate much as they don't stay in print too long).

On vinyl. . . most of my vinyl is jazz. And I would say the ones I think sound really best and that I really like to listen to are on Columbia.

Good Morning Lon. I was mostly wondering what your favorite format is for best sound cd's or vinyl. It almost sounds as though its pretty equal for you with what you have said depending on the availability of music that you like. Thank you for your response!

That's about right. To be honest, I look for the very best sound for Miles Davis and Jimi Hendrix releases (these were the first musicians to really turn me on to music and remain a bedrock for me) and don't obsess about "the best possible sound" in general.

As far as "which is the better format, cd or vinyl" this is so apples and oranges to me that I won't say one is better than another. I will say that with the ZP3 and even a modest turntable you can get fantastic sound at what appears to me to be a lower, considerably lower, price point with vinyl compared to cd. But. . .I can't find even 10 percent of the music I want to hear on vinyl any longer. So cd is where I toss the most time and money.

To be honest, I think that SACD has the biggest sonic potential (not often realized) for digital. If there were more releases of music that I really really wanted to have I would invest as much as I could into the very best SACD player possible. I have a few very good ones. . . but my Redbook front end is better quality, and I have about 150 times more cds than SACDs.

DSD is promising, but it will be a tough battle against 384kHz PCM. You have smaller file sizes and some are arguing the sound beats out DSD. I'm not sure. I have a lot of DSD and I am still getting used to it with the Auralic Vega. I hope to get a Chord Hugo in house soon to see how it does on PCM. Good vinyl still sounds great to me although I don't have a reference cart (AT33PTG/II), it is not too shabby.

Lately, upsampling using J. River PCM2DSD has been fun, but I find myself using my "native" Zone. Exciting times nonetheless!

@LON - What VooDoo cable are you using? I am about to buy some Grover Huffman cables, and I have a Decware Silver Ref. w/ Xhadows on the way.

I'm using VooDoo Evolution and Ultralinear interconnects. Ultralinear are no longer made, were the step up from Evolution, and I only have one pair, form CSP2+ (with beeswax caps) to the Mk III. I really like these cables a lot. Got a few used, one a special from VooDoo Cable itself, and a few from the Cable Company at a good price.

I'm using Decware interconnects and am very happy with them. Steve does also offer the upgraded silver cables for a bit more than his standard cable which is very good I must say. Just trying to help Steve out don't hear much talk about his interconnects and they are very good.

I used Steve's cables for years, quite happily. They're very good cables, and very good for the money. I found other cables better to my tastes and for my system, and paid more, considerably more. . . . A system can sound really nice with his cables.

another brand of wire to give a listen to, if you get a chance is Goertz(Alpha-Core). I became a convert of these about 8 years ago now. I have used many other brands and types prior and a few since - always come back to these. The IC's and speaker cables from this company are a "side business" of the parent company that makes transformers... so they know something about electrical engineering. And there is solid science behind their design. No snake-oil, fairy dust, voodoo science or BS marketing involved.I have used the copper and silver IC's in numerous configurations of components and have always been pleased with the sound. I had only used their copper speaker cables until recently when I had a chance to snag a pair of the solid silver foil speaker cables at a very reasonable price. Goertz does not make the silver speaker cables anymore due to the cost of silver... That said, I can hear a slight difference between the silver & copper speaker cables, but certainly not worth the difference in price and in some configs you may very well prefer the personality of the copper versions better. The copper versions are very reasonable priced... and you can snatch'em up used for almost nothing - they are not well known and Alpha-Core doesn't spend much on marketing them... one of the best kept secrets in audio IMO.

check'em out if you get a chance and see if they're a good synergy in your rig.

OMG, I almost got on there and suggested that if he really wants to make the best amplifier in the world he better man up the rest of the way and do a tube output stage as well. Thank God I stopped myself.

After reading the comments about how horrible tubes are from those who've never heard one it would have been a real Decware Roast.

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare

Steve D said,OMG, I almost got on there and suggested that if he really wants to make the best amplifier in the world he better man up the rest of the way and do a tube output stage as well. Thank God I stopped myself. Wink

After reading the comments about how horrible tubes are from those who've never heard one it would have been a real Decware Roast.

Steve

LOL ... you should have heard Paul himself last year saying how bad tube amps were while he was trying to promote that Class D b.s. amp he was trying to come out with. After the amp was done he took it to an amp shoot out and lost to a 10 year old tube amp ... you would think he would have learned his lesson and that point but then went back to try and re-design it again with the same results.

He's not breaking any new ground here Rogue Audio already has the Class D/Tube Hybrid Sphinx, so I think he wasting time personally. I would have like to see them focus on a kick-ass preamp in the half rack side that could match well with their NuWave Phono Stage and DAC. However from what I've heard that Phono Stage was not well received either and the older version was much better.