The primary goal of this site is to provide mature, meaningful discussion about the Vancouver Canucks. However, we all need a break some time so this forum is basically for anything off-topic, off the wall, or to just get something off your chest! This forum is named after poster Creeper, who passed away in July of 2011 and was a long time member of the Canucks message board community.

Fred wrote:Saves on heating any way plus I understand this is a a natural methane ? found in many areas naturally or from landfills septic tanks in many cases. I have a septic tank at the cottage and if you're down wind you some times think man you could blow the whole cottage up with the methane coming from it

Fred wrote:Saves on heating any way plus I understand this is a a natural methane ? found in many areas naturally or from landfills septic tanks in many cases. I have a septic tank at the cottage and if you're down wind you some times think man you could blow the whole cottage up with the methane coming from it

Where is your cottage Fred ??

You'll likely get a laugh over this....I have a place in Nova Scotia. But it's nice, Ocean front 17 acres and I bought it for the same price as a city lot here Now I'm retired i spend the whole summer out there one drive out and one drive back Plus of course the value has gone up 4 fold.

ukcanuck wrote:Besides what would you call building settlements and encouraging immigration into occupied territory ?

A gross violation of the Geneva convention and a war crime.

Is building a house on land your family has owned for hundreds (thousands?) of years on the same level as executing POWs and mass-murdering civilians by way of say, chemical weapons? Cuz that's pretty strong language there Bucko!

Sheesh, the only way one could even begin to construe this kind of activity as a "war crime" under the Geneva Convention would be if one took the position that Israel is OBVIOUSLY conducting ethnic cleansing by way of manipulating the population-balance of a territory.

But YOU consider Palestinians to be "ethnic Jews" so no ethnic cleansing goin on here in your books amirite?

So yeah, what's up with the "gross violation" and "war crime" bullshit then?

Nope. Jews, muslims, christians; they're all the same in my book. I don't hate them. Just wish the lot cold be less fanatic about the teeny tiny differences in their beliefs.

They all worship Abraham's god, they all have sacred books that tell stories about Noah and Moses and say you can't eat pork (except the Christians say "yeah, we know the book says so, but we don't actually have to follow those rules, except when it refers to homosexuality") and they all like to smite the infidels.

Why can't we all just get along?

Last edited by Per on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nope. Jews, muslims, christians; they're all the same in my book. I don't hate them. Just wish the lot cold be less fanatic about the teeny tiny differences in their beliefs.

They all worship Abraham's god, they all have sacred books that tell stories about Noah and Moses and say you can't eat pork (except the Christians say "yeah, we know the book says so, but we don't actually have to follow those rules, except when it refers to homosexuality") and they all like to smite the infidels.

Strangelove wrote: Is building a house on land your family has owned for hundreds (thousands?) of years on the same level as executing POWs and mass-murdering civilians by way of say, chemical weapons? Cuz that's pretty strong language there Bucko!

Not on the same level, just as shop lifting and bank robbery are both crimes but not on the same level. It is however a war crime and a violation of the Geneva convention to forcibly remove a civilian population in an occupied territory and replace it with your own citizens. This is also why the EU insists that Israel stops labelling products from the West Bank as made in Israel. They are not.

As for the "your family has owned for hundreds (thousands?) of years" bit... No, of course, if you can show that you own the land, and that this ownership s in no way disputed, there should be no issue. But many of the settlements are built on land owned by Palestinians, who have been driven away. But I think your "thousands of years" claim actually is more of a religious than legal character, and thus I'd like to describe how I see the situation.Two brothers share a house. One moves out, the other stays put. Roughly two thousand years later the brother who moved out shows up on the doorstep, saying, “Hey! This is my house!” The brother who stayed put says “No way, José, it’s mine. I have lived here for, like, forever!”The problem is that both brothers are right, but they don’t recognize each other and both think the other guy is trying to rip them off.An aggravating matter is that when they last saw each other they both spoke Arameic (a Semitic language closely related to both Hebrew and Arabic, still spoken by Christian Assyrians and Gnostic Mandeans). Today one brother has switched to the Arabic spoken by all his neighbours, while the other has revived the old Hebrew their granddaddy used to speak waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ago and which was extinct as a spoken language for a couple of thousand years in between. Thus whereas the Hebrew brother says his father was Joseph ben David, the Arabic one says his was Yusuf bin Daoud.

Strangelove wrote: Sheesh, the only way one could even begin to construe this kind of activity as a "war crime" under the Geneva Convention would be if one took the position that Israel is OBVIOUSLY conducting ethnic cleansing by way of manipulating the population-balance of a territory.

LOL! And of course it is OBVIOUS that no such thing is happening, eh?

Strangelove wrote: But YOU consider Palestinians to be "ethnic Jews" so no ethnic cleansing goin on here in your books amirite?

The picture below shows that Palestinians are right in the middle of the different Jewish groups. It also shows that the populations of Syria and Lebanon also fit in this cluster, whereas Ethiopian Jews show very little common ancestry with other Jews.

Sort of confirms my theory that geography tends to be more stable than religion… The Lebanese, Syrians, Palestinians and Jews all share a common ancestry, probably from the Phoenicians that lived throughout the region and by most sources are considered to be the same as the Kaananites. So, the Jews clearly hail from this region and have every right to live there, but so do the Palestinians.Hm... then again, the Lebanese are a bit on the outskirts of the group. Probably more cousins than brothers. I assume that Sar is the Saudi Arabs, ie the ones who actually live on the Arabian peninsula, the "true" Arabs. As you can see the Palestinians are more closely related to the Jewish subgroups than to the real Arabs. Just like English speaking Christian Indians in Mumbai probably are closer related to their Hindi speaking Hindu neighbours than to Queen Elizabeth II. Language and religion are just cosmetics.

And it's still ethnic cleansing, as they are trying to get rid of those they percieve to be of different origin. It's a bit like if Henrik's wife accidentily slept with Daniel. It's still the thought that counts, eh?

Fred wrote:Saves on heating any way plus I understand this is a a natural methane ? found in many areas naturally or from landfills septic tanks in many cases. I have a septic tank at the cottage and if you're down wind you some times think man you could blow the whole cottage up with the methane coming from it

Where is your cottage Fred ??

You'll likely get a laugh over this....I have a place in Nova Scotia. But it's nice, Ocean front 17 acres and I bought it for the same price as a city lot here Now I'm retired i spend the whole summer out there one drive out and one drive back Plus of course the value has gone up 4 fold.

I have a buddy who has a place in NS. Well he bought a lot there anyways, going to build soon. I have never been to the Maritimes....hear it's beautiful.

Yeah the area is beautiful but the Maritimers are a bit difficult .... not so much to visitors but to people that move there from "outside" very clannish. A bit like old Senator McCall from Oregon ..."come and visit but don't forget to leave" But I 've had a place for 20+ years and so tend to slip under the radar. Huge unemployment and a large percentage working in Alberta...but they all fly home every two weeks

Per wrote:I know some people who have a shack in Shediac (NB). Or... shack... who am I kidding. More like a mansion.

I hear they get good lobster there.

Nice area a lot of Euro's and Americans have summer homes in the Maritimes, especially the German and Swiss. I recall the Der Spiegel writing an article stating that the Maritimes was the last all white third world country and the Times of London said if you want to step back 50 years in time this is the place for you The lobster is great I was buying it at $7 lb live

Per wrote:I know some people who have a shack in Shediac (NB). Or... shack... who am I kidding. More like a mansion.

I hear they get good lobster there.

Nice area a lot of Euro's and Americans have summer homes in the Maritimes, especially the German and Swiss. I recall the Der Spiegel writing an article stating that the Maritimes was the last all white third world country and the Times of London said if you want to step back 50 years in time this is the place for you The lobster is great I was buying it at $7 lb live

Strangelove wrote:YOU consider Palestinians to be "ethnic Jews" so no ethnic cleansing goin on here in your books amirite?

Jews, muslims, christians; they're all the same in my book.

... they all like to smite the infidels.

Like OMG dude, I totally LOVETH to smiteth infidels!!

(just ask Spidey)

Per wrote:

Strangelove wrote:Is building a house on land your family has owned for hundreds (thousands?) of years on the same level as executing POWs and mass-murdering civilians by way of say, chemical weapons? Cuz that's pretty strong language there Bucko!

Not on the same level, just as shop lifting and bank robbery are both crimes but not on the same level. It is however a war crime and a violation of the Geneva convention to forcibly remove a civilian population in an occupied territory and replace it with your own citizens.

We agree executing POWs and mass-murdering civilians is on a whole new level compared to what Israel is doing.

Good.

Point was, most civilized folk reserve the phrases "gross violation of the GC" and "war crimes" for the former.

I have read where some experts in international law have argued that Israel is not in violation of the GC. Most say Israel IS in violation of the GC. But only politically driven fanatics and/or jew-haters tend to use the phrases "gross violation" and "war crime".

I agree with those who put it this way: Israel is in violation of the LETTER of the law as worded in the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention, but not the SPIRIT of the law.

And hey, the spirit of the law is the important part of the law amirite?

BTW did you know ~100 of the ~221 settlements are NOT officially recognized by the Israeli government and are illegal under Israeli law? Hey let's face it, it's hard to apply the normal rules to such an abnormal territory. Face it, these so-called "palestinian lands" are in dispute. No one knows what parcel of land exactly will end up a part of which country until a peace deal is finally reached... until such a time as there is a second Country in the land. In the meantime, the world will sit on the sidelines....

until of course a day were to come when Israel were to actually commit a war crime.

Per wrote:As for the "your family has owned for hundreds (thousands?) of years" bit... No, of course, if you can show that you own the land, and that this ownership s in no way disputed, there should be no issue. But many of the settlements are built on land owned by Palestinians, who have been driven away.

And there are palestinians now living on land that was recently owned by jews for hundreds (thousands?) of years.

You DO realize there has always been a population of Jews in the Holy Lands at any given point in the last 3000 years?

It wasn’t a COMPLETE diaspora I hope y’know.

Jews are giving up historically... and recent... Jewish land, and so are arabs.