Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.

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Mike

Well, our subguns were never beauty queens. The one in use today, PM-84P/PM-98/PM-06 (the first one is the original in 9mm Luger, the second one has a different magazine release and a light/laser socket molded into the front grip, and the last one is a PM-98 with a rail slapped on top of it) looks a tad outdated too, but hey, as long as it works…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Submachine_gun_PM-84.jpg – here’s a picture.

Fun fact, the PM-98 ended up in one of the Resident Evil movies. Beats me how, but it’s there.
Hell, I’ve even seen a $10 cheap airsoft toy modeled after the PM98, and as far as I know no serious airsoft manufacturer ever released a replica. There was a classic airsoft replica of a PM-63, though.

hikerguy

Well, it would never win a beauty contest for subbies. But, being in the former soviet sphere of influence, the gun was manufactured to be simple, rugged, and reliable. I always thought it was quite nifty myself despite it being a Makorv caliber design.

Denny

Back to back with my previus ‘criticism’ of Polish.338 concept shown here recently; this is well designed and practical weapon. I would not directly compare it to Skorpion (although thry share the basic purpose); that is for .32ACP – way to anemic.

The later designed Polish subguns such as M84 certainly look better and more capable. I think they did in comparison to HK or Beretta rather good job. However, as we know these calibers are on the way out; its merely recollection of history.

Mike

Well, if the 6.5x25mm cartridge isn’t a fairy dust con job, 9mm guns may have a second chance. I’m not completely convinced, but the benefit of doubt is firmly in effect here.

Denny

If you refer to old Skorpion, this thru itterations has made it as far as to what euros call 9mm Browning, meaning .380APC. The fire rate reducer was innovative feature for its time but that was about the only thing to admire.

This of course does not apply for Skorp Evo 2 which is in 9mm Para. 7.63×17 had been (in old times) standard police pistol round in most european countries. It was meant not to harm seriously. I do not believe that any thinking cop would pack it novadays. Bad guys have much heavier calibers an they use them.

Mike

No, I’m referring to the CBJ 6.5x25mm ammo that some people wrote about like it’s the best thing since powdered milk, which of course made me suspicious. Some Swedish guy invented ammo that at cartridge size identical with 9mm para (the casing is longer and necked) has unbelievable ballistic properties (comparable with the modern PDW rounds from FN and H&K). And it’s possible to readily convert 9mm Para guns to the new caliber with minimum parts replacement (IIRC, you only need to swap out the barrel).

Why, it does look pretty sleek anyway. Uzi is a brick and the Czech Sa-23 is a chunk of pipe with controls bolted on.
Grach has nothing on the PSh-4 either. I mean, look at it. In the sixties, there were capguns made of stamped sheet metal over here that looked like the PSh-4.

Denny

I can only speak of guns I know from personal experience; Sa23-27 were actually suprisingly well ‘groomed’. I would not call them ‘piece of pipe’. They may not have been as rugged as Uzi, true, but they performed quite well (200m with 7.62Tok) and were reliable. Of course, the 9mmPara version was better allaround.

noob

weren’t these the guns used in the london iranian embassy siege?

6677

I can’t find either a) a good photo or b) a definitive listing of the weapons used. According to wikipedia though the weapons where soviet made so it is plausible

Mike

I know that the Italian Red Brigades got their hands on RAKs. Not sure about the Iranian embassy siege, though.

6677

ONly google image search result with a picture of a PM63 when searching “london embassy siege rak” returns to this page so whatever the weapons used where I don’t think they were PM63’s.

The point is that the PM-63 is a thoroughly practical, functional and reliable weapon that fulfills its intended role admirably, as do the Czech vz.63 Skorpion and other successful military-grade equivalents. As for aesthetics, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The PM-63 might look ugly to some, but I think it is a sharp and purposeful-looking gun.

In case anyone starts to protest too much about this, we should remember that when the Hi-Point 995 carbine was first introduced to the market, almost everyone openly condemned it as being downright ugly and cheap-looking while grudgingly acknowledging it’s functionality. Now most of the same people are extolling the weapon’s practical virtues and actually think it has a certain purposeful beauty in it’s own right.