If talking about me then no I not a marsh mellows ! I do stand up for my
right when I know I am right. But I am not anti business person. There is

the thing of standing up for rights and respecting your fellow man, woman
or
what ever. Also not to be anti business because this gets you know where
and

just makes software developers and other mfg anti against people with
handicaps or disabilities. This is why a deaf person can tell what the TV

says and a blind person still don't really know what going on. Just like
we

still can't read the menus on your TV or cable box or use most of the ATM
machines and the list goes on and on. The old saying is you can catch more

flies with honey than vinegar . So spread a little honey around and you
will
be surprise what you will get. But everything you come across spray
vinegar
on it and you will more than likely repel most things. Yes stand up for
your

self but use common since . Also two wrongs don't make a right. More
thoughts
.
Sign,
Joe Plummer ( JP )
joeplummer@xxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----

Of Easy Talk
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:07 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: Question & answer about motel and service dogs
so you haven't said anything that wasn't already said. Some people are
marsh mellows and some stand up for there rights. I use to be the marsh
mellow but no more. If an establishment refuses me entrence or causes a

problem about the dog I usually try to go ahead and enter the
establishment

and tell them to call the law to learn the law.
Once I stopped at a little hotel in Kissimmee and the clerk didn't want to
rent me a room because I had a service animal. I called the sheriff's

department and let them explain what could happen if they denied me
service.

The hotel was a crack hotel but I was sleepy and had been riding all day
I even got kicked out of the George Jones gift shop in Nashville after
shopping in side for 30 minutes. The cashier didn't even notice the dog
until I got to the counter to pay for my things. Guess where I left my
purchases.!!!smile .
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Plummer" <joeplummer@xxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:42 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: Question & answer about motel and service dogs

Ok, it does say they can not charge a deposit but can charge for damage
the
service animal does. So I would think they would have to have you come by
the office so they could inspect the room with making a departure leaving
the place of establishment. Now since they have your credit card I would
assume it would be like a rental car place the card is left open to make
other charges to it. Now this being said and they should not charge a
deposit don't mean they want and it would be left up to you to press

charges. But this would not get you a room at the time. I would be
willing

to bet most of the ones that was wanting to charge a deposit and then
couldn't they would charge for damage if you did not have a crate to put
your dog in. They would say the dog smell and hair and so forth cause
damage
to the room that caused them to have to do extra cleaning. I don't think
any
court would deny them. What they have done was left a big loop hole. I my
self think I would rather put the deposit up and then get it back if

possible if there was no damage. Either way you would have to pay. I
also,

think a place of business should be able to require a deposit. This still
is
my thoughts. But will agree now that it is saying a deposit can't be
applied. But may charge for damage. So in Essen they are doing or allowed
to
do the same thing.
Sign,
Joe Plummer ( JP )
joeplummer@xxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Easy Talk
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:11 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: Question & answer about motel and service dogs
happy reading.
TIPS: Technical Information Perspectives and Solutions (TIPS)-April 2008
SERVICE ANIMALS Copyright C 2008 The DBTAC: Southeast ADA Center
(Southeast
DBTAC) publishes a variety of TIPS intended to provide accurate
information
on issues and concerns related to the Americans with Disabilities Act
(ADA)
for information specialists, advocates, business owners, government
agencies, managers, and the general public. The examples used in these
TIPS
are based on actual questions received by the Southeast DBTAC, and are
designed to strengthen the capacity of those who provide information and
technical assistance to help others achieve effective compliance with the
ADA. This TIPS reflects the best professional judgment of the Southeast
DBTAC staff and its regional affiliate network and has not been reviewed
for
accuracy by federal enforcement agencies. If you have questions or
suggestions about the TIPS, email the Southeast DBTAC at
sedbtacproject@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Copyright Permission
For copyright permission, email the Southeast DBTAC at
sedbtacproject@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Organizations may reproduce this fact sheet for non-commercial use
provided
they acknowledge the Southeast DBTAC as the copyright owner and include
the
following credit
statement:
Reprinted from the DBTAC: Southeast ADA Resource Center website at
www.sedbtac.org.
Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), a qualified individual
with
a disability who uses a service animal must be allowed to bring the
service

animal to any place of employment, business, and state or local
government

facility or program.
What is a Service Animal?
According to Department of Justice (DOJ) regulations, a service animal is

any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to do
work

or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability.
Besides dogs, many kinds of animals can be service animals if they meet
this
definition.
Such animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of
whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local
government.
Service animals are not considered pets.
What about Therapy Animals?
Therapy animals provide people with contact to animals, but are not
limited
to working with people who have disabilities, and usually are not
considered
service animals.
They ordinarily are the personal pets of their handlers, and work with
their
handlers to provide services to others. Federal law does not require
places
of public accommodation to modify "no pets" policies for therapy animals.
Is Documentation Required?
An individual does not need to provide documentation regarding his/her
need
for a service animal. The ADA generally prohibits covered entities from
directly asking a person if s/he has a disability. If, however, the need
for
the service animal is not apparent, the entity may ask what tasks the
animal
performs and whether the animal is required because of a disability.
Can fees be charged for service animals?
Covered entities may not charge deposits or surcharges for allowing a
service animal to accompany an individual with a disability, even if
deposits are normally required for pets. However, individuals with
disabilities may be charged for damage caused by their service animal, so
long as the entity regularly charges individuals without disabilities for
the same damages.
Are there Circumstances When a Service Animal Can Be Excluded?

A service animal may be excluded when the animal's behavior poses a
direct

threat to the health or safety of others. For example, a service animal
that
displays vicious behavior towards other guests or customers may be
excluded.
However, assumptions may not be made about how a particular animal is
likely

to behave based on past experience with other animals. Each situation
must

be considered individually.
In some instances, the presence of a service animal may conflict with
other
interests.
A California plaintiff sued a ferry company who refused to allow her
service
animal into a specific area of the ferry. The ferry company based its
one-time refusal on the requests of a frequent customer with dander
allergies for an animal-free area.
The court found that the ferry did not violate the ADA because it based
its
decision on consideration for the health and safety of others. See
Lockett
v.
Catalina Channel
Exp., Inc., 496 F.3d 1061 (9th Cir. 2007).
When the accommodation of a service animal would result in a fundamental
alteration to the nature of the business, service or activity it may be
excluded. For example, a dog barking during a theatrical performance may
be
excluded. However, the individual with the disability must be allowed to
return without the animal.
What About Service Animals in Housing?
The Fair Housing Act Amendments prohibits discrimination because of
disability in the sale, rental or advertising of dwellings. The law
requires

public and private housing providers to modify policies and practices
that

deprive individuals with disabilities of their rights to enjoy and use
their
dwellings. The Act requires covered housing providers to make reasonable
accommodations to policies that prohibit pets or require deposits for
animals. Exemptions include buildings with four or fewer units where the

landlord lives in one of the units, and private owners who do not own
more

than three single family houses.
What About Service Animals in Air Travel?
According to the Air Carrier Access Act Part 382 regulations, airlines
must
permit service animals to accompany a qualified person with disabilities
on
a flight. The service animal may accompany the individual in any seat in
which the person sits, unless the animal obstructs an aisle or other area
that must remain clear in order to facilitate an emergency evacuation or
to

may ask whether an animal is a service animal, but may not require
documentation as a prerequisite to boarding. Airlines may rely on
credible
verbal assurances of the individual using the animal.
Identification may

include cards or other documentation, presence of a harness or markings
on

a

harness, tags, or the credible verbal assurance of the passenger using
the

animal.
The U.S. Department of Transportation Guidance Concerning Service Animals
in
Air Transportation also recognizes emotional support animals as service
animals.
More
information may be obtained at
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/20030509.doc
(Word version) or http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/20030509.pdf (PDF
version).
Enforcement
* Title I of the ADA-File a complaint with the Equal Employment
Opportunity
Commission
(EEOC) within 180 days of the alleged discrimination.
(www.eeoc.gov/charge/overview_charge_filing.html)

* Title II of the ADA-File a complaint with the U.S. Department of
Justice

(DOJ)
by calling 1-800-896-7743 or file a complaint with the Office of Civil
Rights at the Department of Health and Human Services at 1-800-368-1019.
(www.ada.gov/t2cmpfrm.htm)
* Title III of the ADA-File a complaint with U. S. Department of Justice,
Civil Rights Division (www.ada.gov/t3compfm.htm)

* Housing-File a complaint with Housing and Urban Development (HUD)
within

one year after the alleged discrimination or file a lawsuit in federal
district court within two years of the alleged incident.
(www.hud.gov/complaints/housediscrim.cfm)
* Air Travel-File a compliant with the U.S. Department of Transportation
Aviation Consumer Protection Division.
(http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/problems.htm)
Resources
The following links provide additional information about Service Animals.
U.S. Department of Justice
* Technical Assistance Letters
o www.usdoj.gov/crt/foia/tal482.txt
o www.usdoj.gov/crt/foia/tal151.txt
o www.usdoj.gov/crt/foia/tal302.txt
* ADA Business Brief: Service Animals
www.ada.gov/svcanimb.htm
* Commonly Asked Questions About Service Animals in Places of Business
www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/qasrvc.htm U.S. Department of Transportation
* U.S. Department of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/index.htm

file) http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/20030509.pdf (PDF file) Other
Organizations:
* Delta Society
www.deltasociety.org
* Southeastern Guide Dogs, Inc.
www.guidedogs.org
ILRU Webcasts
* Part I: Service Animals and the Law: Which Animals do the ADA & State
Law
Recognize?
- Sally Conway, U.S. Dept. of Justice; Ed Eames, PhD, Toni Eames, MS and
Aaron McCullough on April 14, 2004.
www.ilru.org/html/training/webcasts/archive/2004/04-14-SC.html
* Part II: Questions & Answers about Service Animals and the Law: Which
Animals do the ADA & State Law Recognize - Sally Conway, U.S. Department
of
Justice and J. Aaron McCullough, DLRP on April 29, 2004.
www.ilru.org/html/training/webcasts/archive/2004/04-29-SC.html
* Part III: Service Animals in Housing and Air Travel - Betsy Darling,
HUD;

Toomey, Continental Airlines on May 12, 2004.
http://www.ilru.org/html/training/webcasts/archive/2004/05-12-BD.html
* Part IV: Transportation and the ADA: Latest Updates, Service Animals,
Q&A
- Marilyn Golden, DREDF on June 16, 2004.
www.ilru.org/html/training/webcasts/archive/2004/06-16-MG.html
DISCLAIMER: The Disability and Business Technical Assistance Center
(DBTAC) - Southeast
ADA Center (Southeast DBTAC) is authorized by the National Institute on
Disability and Rehabilitation Research (NIDRR) to provide information,
materials, and technical assistance to individuals and entities that are
covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) under Grant No.
H133A060094. However, you should be aware that NIDRR is not responsible
for

enforcement of the ADA. For more information or assistance, please
contact

the Southeast DBTAC via its web site at www.sedbtac.org or by calling
1-800-949-4232 (Voice/TTY).
The information, materials, and/or technical assistance are intended
solely

as informal guidance, and are neither a determination of your legal
rights

or responsibilities under the Act, nor binding on any agency with
enforcement responsibility under the ADA. The Burton Blatt Institute at

Syracuse University (BBI) does not warrant the accuracy of any
information

contained herein. Any links to non-BBI information are provided as a
courtesy. They are not intended to nor do they constitute an endorsement
by
the BBI of the linked materials.
DBTAC- SOUTHEAST ADA CENTER (SOUTHEAST DBTAC)
1419 Mayson Street, Atlanta, Georgia 30324
(800) 949-4232 (v/tty)
(404) 385-0636
(404) 385-0641 (Fax)
sedbtacproject@xxxxxxxxxxx
www.sedbtac.org

Funded by the National Institute on Disability and Rehabilitation
Research

That is true, but they are not saying that, they are just taking it and
not
giving an account as to what they are doing. A sighted person they give
an

accounting to every time for charges. However they feel that they
don't

oah

us any explanation what so ever. If they are taking an deposit then
they

need to say so, and return it if there is no problem. The thing is that
they
will find something to justify them keeping all, or most of the money.
Remember this society is sick, and how ever, and by who ever.
I'm glad to be your humble and obedient servant,
Zechen Elder Daniel Ben Moshe,
Benai Yahshuah Synagogue Of Broward County,
www.theblindcansee.org

Choose ye this day whom you will serve. If Yahweh be Elohim, then
serve

him, with all of your hart. However, if bail be your master. Then
serve
him. As for me, and my house. We choose, to serve Yahweh!
The late Bishop Joe Patterson told a story long ago, when I was a small
child. About Elijah, and the 450 false prophets of bail. He said that
Elijah, stood, and told the false prophets to go on ahead, because they
had
a much larger program. He said that they had 450 participants, and he
only

had one. Elijah, also reminded them, that they had to drag their god
up

the
mountain side on an ox cart. the man of Yahweh, also said, that his
Elohim
would be there when he arrived. He said mockingly, you go on ahead.
Heck,
I will even let you call your god first. I'M going to take a nap, and
when
you guys finish your foolishness, wake me up. Go ahead now, take your
best
shot.
Bishop Joe O Patterson
A blessed memory
1963-1989
-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Joe Plummer
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 11:57 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: Question & answer about motel and service dogs
Yes, it is good business practice. They're not charging for damages
before
it happens they are getting a deposit. I my self do not think they are
out
side the law. Anyone else would have to put up a deposit even if they
were
aloud to have the animal inside the room at all. Just because we are
blind
don't make us special. Now I do think we have certain rights as a handy
cap
or disable person. But not paying a deposit for your dog or what ever
animal

that could or could not cause damage is not one of them. If no damage
is

done then you should get your money reimburse . If not this is what the
court of law is for. Just my thoughts.
Sign,
Joe Plummer ( JP )
joeplummer@xxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Darla J. Rogers
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 4:21 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: Question & answer about motel and service dogs

Um, Joe; my dogs have **never** CREATED A PROBLEM OF ANY KIND
**INSIDE**

A
HOTEL. My current dog did have diarrhea in the parking lot which I
would
have been happy to reimburse, as I told them about it, and guess what?
The
next day, it was still there.
If a public establishment tries to charge for damages, in advance, they
are
breaking the law, and I, for one, will sue, if I must to recoup my
losses.
Good business practices? I don't think so, as it is breaking the laws,
both
Federal and state.
Darla
Darla J. Rogers, B.A. Social Science; M.S. Rehabilitation Counselor
Education
djrogers0628@xxxxxxxxxxx
Home phone #: 850-329-7437
Cell #: 850-443-3571
Skype ID: wildflower0628
I suited up for the long walk back to myself...
....Ani DiFranco
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Plummer" <joeplummer@xxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:16 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: Question & answer about motel and service dogs

I don't think they are trying to get away with anything. This is just
good business practice to me. It cost to clean up after a dog or
anything. What is this we are blind and should get special things done
for us. That is not right. Yes, I believe that you need some help and
we do get it. But come on people we are not privilege. This coming
from a service dog owner. Use common since. More of my thoughts.
Sign,
JP ( Joe Plummer)
joeplummer@xxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Daniel Ben Moshe
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 2:56 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: Question & answer about motel and service dogs
I have never had a problem in hotell stays, things are changing, and
where ever you are can determen how much they try to get away with. As
you said if they are taking a depossit, then they should return it,
but I have never had them ask for a depossit.
I'm glad to be your humble and obedient servant,
Zechen Elder Daniel Ben Moshe,
Benai Yahshuah Synagogue Of Broward County, www.theblindcansee.org
Choose ye this day whom you will serve. If Yahweh be Elohim, then
serve him, with all of your hart. However, if bail be your master.
Then serve him. As for me, and my house. We choose, to serve Yahweh!
The late Bishop Joe Patterson told a story long ago, when i was a
small child. About Elijah, and the 450 false prophets of bail. He
said that Elijah, stood, and told the false prophets to go on ahead,
because they had a much larger program. He said that they had 450
participants, and he only had one. Elijah, also reminded them, that
they had to drag their god up the mountain side on an ox cart. the
man of yahweh, also said, that his Elohim would be there when he
arrived. He said mockingly,you go on ahead. Heck,

I
will even let you call your god first. I'M going to take a nap, and
when you guys finish your foolishness, wake me up. Go ahead now, take
your best shot.
Bishop Joe O Patterson
A blessed memory
1963-1989
-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Joe Plummer
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 2:02 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: Question & answer about motel and service dogs
Well, there is nothing in the ADA or the law saying you can or cannot.
Now most places has their own policeys weather in writing or just
verbal. They can say extra for the dog not as like a extra person. But
maybe as extra cleaning, or even a damage deposit. Now as a deposit
you should get your money back if the dog has not done any damage. Now
I have not ran in to this but do not do a lot of staying in rooms. But
if I had this kind of business I would more than likely consider Extra
for the dog for the extra cleaning and more than likely a deposit on
top for damage if any happen to happen .
But this my thoughts. Not everyone takes care of their service dog
like they should and all are not the best mannered.
Sign,
JP ( Joe Plummer)
joeplummer@xxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Lighthouse of the Big Bend
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 1:35 PM
To: tabi
Cc: fcb-l
Subject: [tabi] Question & answer about motel and service dogs
Thought some folks might find this interesting... although many may
already know it : )
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Subject: Question & answer about motel and service dogs
A friend of mine who does training at Hilton Hotels tells me that it
is illegal to charge extra for a service dog staying in a hotel? I
have been charged extra for my dog as we travel at motels by about 15
dollars a room for the dog. There is no problem with getting her in
the room - but my friend said that they can only charge if the dog
does something in the room then that is fine. Their policy for pets
staying in the room is $15 a night extra. This was new to me and I
told her I could not recall reading anything about this under title
II.
Could you clarify this for me?
Thanks
.....
Answer:
Hotels are covered by title III, not title II. (Places of public
accommodation - title III vs. programs and services of state or local
governments (title II).
The issue you raise concerns an unlawful surcharge.
See http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm , question 7:
7. Q: Can I charge a maintenance or cleaning fee for customers who
bring service animals into my business?
A: No. Neither a deposit nor a surcharge may be imposed on an
individual with a disability as a condition to allowing a service
animal to accompany the individual with a disability, even if deposits
are routinely required for pets. However, a public accommodation may
charge its customers with disabilities if a service animal causes
damage so long as it is the regular practice of the entity to charge
non-disabled customers for the same types of damages. For example, a
hotel can charge a guest with a disability for the cost of repairing
or cleaning furniture damaged by a service animal if it is the hotel's
policy to charge when non-disabled guests cause such damage.
Marc Dubin, Esq.
Director of Advocacy
Center for Independent Living of South Florida www.ADAadvocacyBlog.org
mdubin@xxxxxxxxx 305-896-3000 mobile
fax: 877-731-3030
www.cavnet.org
EIN: 52-2117529
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