Crossing the border with Blue Jays beat reporter Jordan Bastian.

Angels out, D-backs in on Eckstein

NEW YORK — On the day the Blue Jays say farewell to Yankee Stadium, David Eckstein might also be saying goodbye to Toronto. The Jays are still in talks with the Diamondbacks about possibly dealing the seldom-used infielder to Arizona.

The Angels garnered most of the trade rumor attention over the past few days, but Jays Gm J.P. Ricciardi noted today that there would “probably not” be a match with the Halos. Angels also inquired about Marco Scutaro and John McDonald, but the Jays would be reluctant to deal either.

Twins, Rays and Dodgers have also been mentioned in trade rumors about Eckstein, though they appear to be unlikely suitors. My sources have pretty much shot down any deal with the Rays or Twins. Ricciardi said talks could down to the wire as tonight’s midnight deadline nears, so stay tuned for more…

I don’t think we would have gotten a draft pick at all for Eckstein. And the Jays were interested in Beck before so that makes sense as well, however being moved to two different teams and being a 14th rounder makes me doubt his upside. Sure he is pitching ok, but its only A ball and I doubt he is going to make it to the majors.

I dont see how you can say he got screwed at 4.5 mil. for one year I would go for that deal anytime.on the other hand I am happy Eskstein and Stairs have a chance to make the playoffs at least we will have a couple of players to watch in Oct.

re: your question about why I defend JP when someone craps all over him.

I find the man incredibly sexy. If I was a woman….well, lets keep this clean.

Seriously, why do you and others ONLY bash him and not point out the good things he has done? I think he deserves criticism, for sure, but you can’t ignore the fact that he really hasn’t made a bad trade, has put together the best pitching in baseball, and while he has made mistakes in drafting (like EVERY OTHER GM), there are many quality pieces in the minors that can certainly contribute in the future, or bring back a power bat in trade in the offseason.

Yeah, he did better this year financially than 99% of humans, but in terms of baseball he got screwed by being benched for inferior hitters. He signed here to be the starter. I know things change and the new manager can do what he wants, but he should have gotten WAY more playing time, considering the offense, and not the defense has been the problem all year.

Plus. remember we are FANS and fans are fickle when things go wrong to us the manager or the GM are fair game.no one means any harm by it. we can’t get rid of JP just by bashing him and we know it.so tell me were is the harm in it.

And if you read back in the blog you will find that a lot of guys give him credit when credit is due.Also you did not answer Gsumners question.

Good point. That is one of the mistakes I think that JP made, but I believe (I may be wrong) that Eckstein became available after he signed McDonald to the extension, so he was simply trying to upgrade the position, which he did, offensively at least. I would be interested to see how Mac would do if he was given 500 at bats though.

The answer to the question of why I defend him is simply because I think he deserves it. I don’t like when the Dickie Griffins of the world just harp on all the negatives or perceived negatives.

You answer me this: If the core of the team had just performed to the their expected ability, wouldn’t this team be right in the thick of it? And if that were the case, and they were in the race or leading the race, wouldn’t that make JP a good GM in most peoples eyes?

The point is, once the team is put in place on opening day, it is essentially out of his control. Yeah he can make moves midseason, but he couldn’t make trades in April and May to improve the offense, because no team is making deals that early, because no team is out of the race at that point. You can point to Wilk and Mench as bad moves, but there really wasn’t much of an alternative.

plus
I just call them as I see them. I do compliment JP when he makes a good move. Problem is, he has not made many in the last 2-3 years. If you look up thread, you’ll see I complemented him on the Stairs deal and calling up Snider. Garry and Bosox will tell you, up unitl last year, I was a huge JP supporter. Not any more.

I also think this deal with Eckstein is a good move. True all we got is a b grade prospect back, but we saved about $850k in salary.

There really is only one issue though on JP. He’s been here for 7 years. The year before he came we finished 4 games over .500 and in 3rd place. Now we sit at 4 games over .500 and in 4th place. We’ve only been above 3rd place once. We’ve had one good, one mediocre and the rest crap drafts since he’s been here.

Ok, we’ll agree to disagree. But remember, JP had to slash payroll when he got the job, so for at least two years, he wasn’t going to have much of a chance. Also, I know this point is beaten to death, but you can’t argue the fact that the Jays are in the toughest division in baseball. Frank Thomas was a bad move, not going to argue that. Wells contract could very well been out of his control (Godfrey), and like I said earlier, I will wait until at least year 2 of that deal to call it a complete bust. The A.J. contract? Give me a break. This is going to turn out great for them. They are going to get two first round picks when he opts out, and if you look at the market for pitchers, JP did not overpay for AJ. He underachieved, but I wouldn’t call this a bad contract at all. Maybe if he needs Tommy John on the last day of this year it will be, but that is out of JPs control. Gabe Gross and Zack Jackson gave him Lyle Overbay, who before his injury, had a pretty damn good year in 2006. Underachiever again this year I know. Shea Hillenbrand got him Accardo who stepped up big time in BJs absence last year. The others, specifically Stewart, I’m just too damn tired to argue. I guess Bautista is puzzling (maybe insurance for Rolen, who knows), but you know where I stand on Diaz. The draft is such a crapshoot, and it really can’t be judged until at least 5 years after the fact.

plus
You haven’t addressed all the old has beens JP signed in the last couple of years that cost us a great deal of money with limited or no return. You haven’t addressed the fact JP signed Hillebrand to start with. You haven’t addressed the ridiculous contracts he gave Henske and Koskie. You haven’t addressed the massive signing bonuses paid to Gross, Jackson, Negron and Adams that were all busts and number 1 draft picks.
By the way, check out Kevin Ahrens, our first rounder from 2007-he’s not performing all that well and is starting to look like another Russ Adams to me. How about Eckstein at $4.5 million? Don’t blame Godfey for Wells contract-that was all Jp’s doing not Godfrey.

You must be joking about AJ. Who else signs a pitcher with a bad medical history for $55 million when his career best win record was 12-12. AJ didn’t perform any worse than he did before we signed him-he’s always been a .500 pitcher-we massively over paid for him. That contract and BJ Ryan’s is what drove the price for pitchers through the roof. Frankly, we got lucky with AJ’s contract. He could have gotten injured again, blown out his arm and we’d have been on the hook for the whole $55 million. Two draft choices isn’t worth the money, we’ve already paid him. Besides, you are making a bad assumption in that JP knows what to do with draft picks.

Think about it this trade, two number 1 draft picks for Lyle Overbay? What does that tell you? What it tells me is neither Jackson nor Gross should have been number 1 picks and shouldn’t have gotten over $3 million to sign. Think I’m wrong-then show me one other team in the last 30 years that’s ever traded two number 1 picks for a 1st baseman who is nothing more than a nice player. That deal is almost as bad as the Diaz-Bautista deal.

You are right, we play in the AL east. We played in the AL east when we won the series two years in a row as well. The point is the ONLY way we win is to develop our own talent and then when we get close, add the last 1-2 pieces. We are paying for Jp’s screw ups in drafting. The 2007 draft is the only good one he’s done. All the others previous have been either poor or disasterous. Our minor league system was rating one of the poorest in baseball last year. Like what the hell does that tell you?

You also haven’t addressed Jp’s babbling mouth or his tendancy to lie. You haven’t addressed the fact he should have fired Gibbons much earlier. You haven’t addressed the Denbro hiring. I mean JP has not made a lot of good decisions in the last couple of years.

You still haven’t accepted the obvious-look at the team win record, in the end that’s all that matters.

This is pointless. I was almost going to argue with you again until you said AJ is a .500 pitcher. Its also a waste of my time to argue with someone who thinks Brandon Wood and Sean Rodriguez could be had for Scutaro and McDonald. Please tell me you were half in the bag when you wrote that.

plus
Interesting that when you’re pressed on your posts, sooner or later, you duck and make personal attacks. Hilarious.

I didn’t say Wood and Rodriguez could be had for Scutaro and Macdonald, I said IF the Angels press for both of them, then we should HOLD firm until they offer Wood and Rodgriguez. Sorry if you can’t figure out the difference.

Obviously, you haven’t really reviewed AJ. His record was 49-50 at the time we signed him for $55 million. True, that’s not really .500, it’s lower than that and sure isn’t a record which would justify a $55 million dollar guaranteed contract-particulary with his medical history.

Let’s take the most pathetic team in hockey – our own beloved leafs. No one in their right mind would argue that they are not possibly the most disfunctional hockey team over the last 40 years. Yet, despite their lack of a game plan etc. they have at least recognized that at the end of the day, the repsonbibility for failing to put a winner on the ice must rest with the GM. Many of them, and there is a long list, have had much shorter tenures than our friend JP. Did Ferguson make some good deals, did trader Cliff make some good decisons and deals, did Quinn not make some good decisons and deals — of course. Even Stellick pulled off a couple of good deals. That is to be expected. Yet, at the end of the day they were fired because they could only bring the team so far and no further. A history of horrible drafts (except for the odd one here and there), a strategy of over paying for veterans passed their prime, a willingness to trade the precious few prospects they did have and draft picks for rental players, together, caused their demise. The problems were systemic not localized to a move here or a trade there. No one who bashes JP is saying that JP has not made some good moves, but it is irrelevant. The problem is that HE CANNOT DO HIS JOB — AND PUT A COMPETITIVE TEAM ON THE FIELD. Thus, like his forerunners and contempories managing the leafs, HE HAS TO GO. No one is in a mood to cut JP SLACK because after 7-8 seasons he has RUN OUT OF SLACK – just ask Gord Ash.

Gsumner and burt well said.
I think JP was short on experience when he came to Toronto.also I don’t think he learned anything while he was here.What he should do is become an assistant GM under a good GM and learn the game all over.That’s if his EGO would allow it.

Eskstein went 2 for 4 with a SAC. fly and 2 RBIs today.He was also involvd in three double plays.He was at 2nd base today.Good on him.The D-Backs won by 2 runs Hmmm.

Indy.How come no input on the JP disscussions.Also what do you think about the Stairs and Eskstein trades.Do you think the Jays came out ahead or not.

How about you Bosox anything to say.

Robert Lee where are you I miss reading your posts.I belive you know your stuff talk to us.
Where is Harry and Hemgold.Towers what happend to you we need your input.Also there are many more of you guys and gals that are not posting.What in the world happend to you guys.
JORDAN I know we are only Canadians but surely you can lower your standards and talk to us once in a while.You said you would interact with us while a game was on once in a while.What happend did you forget EHH.

I think the Jays (J.P.) made 2 very good moves. Eckstein was watching like us the fans. Gaston obvioulsy is a big fan of McDonald and he should be. No reason too keep Eckstein around. Also with Eckstein they saved some $$$ and that is a good thing. Same with Stairs, they saved some $$$$. Eckstein and Stairs didn’t fit in there long term plan anyway. Eckstein obvioulsy wasn’t going to be around next year with the Jays. Stairs makes a cool million next year, might as well deal him away. Stairs is no difference maker.

Where is Indigo? Where are you? LOL!!! This baseball season went by very fast. It seems like it was April about 20 minutes ago. Where does time go? T.B. keeps on winning. It is going to be very difficult for the Red Sox too catch them. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Red Sox did but not counting on it. I think T.B. has been a great story and nothing but good vibes for the game of baseball.

Bosox
I agree the Rays are a good story for baseball. With total salaries of $43,745,597, they have proven once again, that the best way to win, is with smart draft choices and building of a good minor league system. I expect them to get better next year than they are now. They are going to be tough to beat for quite some time.

I bleed Red Sox red. Always have and always will. If Boston is out of it, I would root for T.B. and who wouldn’t? I assume you are and everyone else. T.B. gives hope to alot of teams out there. Who in the world thought it would be T.B. in first place on Sept. 1? Nobody around here said that. Howell, Balfour and Wheeler have been huge for the Rays this year. They’re the reason where they are at. I thought T.B. had a chance to win 81 games and nothing more. Maddon a slam dunk winner for manager of the year. Hands down winner!!! As gibby1 said 43 million dollar payroll. A-Rod makes more than half that. lol.

Bosox. You bet your boots I will be rooting for Tampa but if they meet the Cubs in the world series it’s the Cubs for me.And just for you if Boston makes it I will root for them just for you lol.Uh thats if they don’t meet the Cubs.

If the Sox are done and T.B. is still alive. I’ll pull for T.B. If those 2 teams are done, I’ll root for the Cubs. If all of those teams are done, I’ll root for nobody. LOL!!! If you can understand all that, mighty impressive. I have no clue what I just wrote, lol.

I’m kind of on the fence as to whether or not TB is a good story for baseball. Sure, it proves that if you can have a losing record for 10 years, and build with prospects, you can have 3 or 4 good years of great baseball, with a very low payroll.

But it certainly doesn’t have that “if you build it they will come type of feeling to it” in TB right now. With the exciting young team they have right now, it’d be nice to see better attendance over there. I’d like to see the Cubs take it this year. The fans deserve it down there. That’d be a pretty cool story.

Garry
It appears Jordan does not like negative comments on JP, so when I sign in as gsumner@rogers.com-I get the screen name gibby-1. lol That’s why you see the post above under gibby-1. They track it from email address, so I used a different one this time to post. I don’t really mind Jordan changing my name from my email but I think we should be give an opportunity to pick our own name.

Hey Jordan, why are you doing this? I noticed even when I signed into other mlb sites, I was Gibby-1, so you have changed my registration with MLB, not just the Blue Jays. Jordan, I did not give you, anyone from either the Blue Jays or MLB permission to put personal altered cookies on my system or change my personal registration with MLB, and I’d highly suggest you refrain from that practise. It’s bad enough MLB bundle various ad bots and load them on.

My initial registration with MLB WAS NOT made through the Jays web site, and you’re changing my registration with MLB without my permission in some jurisdictions is considered identity theft and a criminal act.

No brews last night. lol. I don’t even know if I even enter Indigo’s mind. I doubt I am even in the top 100. LOL!!

Cubs would be a great story if they won it all. Very deserving, especially for the fans. They have suffered for decades. Cubs fans are among the greatest!!! Not too many Cubs fans have seen good years like this year.

I feel for ya plus, who is this gsumner guy and why does he think he knows everything about baseball? One that made me laugh histerically was the Overbay trade. Seriously Gross and Jackson are both fringe major league players, and Gross wasnt even drafted by Riccardi so you can’t blame him for giving him the big bonus. Neither was Negron both Gord Ash picks. Ill take Overbay over those two players any day of the week. I dont care what round a player is drafted in if you can improve your team you do it. I could tear some of his comments to shreds, but like plus said its pointless. It’s too bad that there wasn’t a little bit more intelligent converstation around here this blog would be half decent.

Yeah, its just tiring. The whole AJ being a .500 pitcher talk is what convinced me that arguing with him will go nowhere. Anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that is the biggest load of crap. Wins are the absolute worst possible stat to judge a pitcher on. He is having his worst year statistically, yet his winning percentage is the highest for his career.

Shame on JP for acquiring free agents that have made the team better, and also shame on him for acquiring Overbay for pretty much next to nothing.

Another argument I love is comparing the Jays to the Leafs (Burt). Ok, lets think about this one. The Leafs play in a league where more than HALF!!!!!!!!!! the teams make the playoffs. They are beyond pathetic. I don’t think people realize how hard it is to make the playoffs in MLB. Now I know JP has done things to hurt the team’s performance, but anyone with a brain has to realize that this team is close.

I haven’t posted as often is I used to but I still read Jordan’s blog daily. It just seems pointless to me to have to repeat basically the same thing frequently but I do agree with plus. The team is close. No team with the best pitching staff in baseball should rebuild. If they can get an average to good offense next year they’ll be right in it.

“That being said, if Rolen’s healthy, I think he could be our Mike Lowell and put us into contention. The guy burns to win, takes our defense to probably the best in baseball and provides us with a proven “cltuch hitter” which we have sorely missed.

If he is healthy and helps us win this year or next, no one will care how much he’s paid in 2010 or whether he’s even able to play.

In my view, we weren’t going to contend before this trade, now, if Rolens performs, I think we might. He could be that much of a difference.”

Our outfielders will be Snider, Wells, Rios,Lind and Cavez. Our catchers will be Diaz and Arencibia. For the infield we have Adhrens, Jackson, Hill, Tolisano and hopefully Fuenmeyer.

For starters we have Marcum, McGowan, Cecil, Purcey, Romero, Janssen, Litsch and potentially Wolfe and we are knee deep in pitching prospects that played in Auburn and GC Jays last year, 6 of which had era’s under 2 and weren’t mentioned in the BA report.

If we keep drafting the way we did last year, our minor league system will be humming in 2009 at all levels. The Sox and Yanks have better prospects in the higher minors than we do, but we hold our own in the lower levels and that crop is starting to move up. Auburn won the championship in 2007.

We now have a strong core of young talented players-mostly home grown. That only improves in the next few years and whatever pieces are missing can be added in free agent or trades. ”

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