Down and Out in the Staples Center (Warriors 90, Lakers 97)

Good teams — particularly ones with two full-fledged superstars and a third in the making — have a margin of error. They can go to sleep for a quarter or two, make a variety of mistakes, allow momentum swings here or there and still walk away with a win. Less talented teams — particularly ones missing key players and on the road — aren’t so lucky. There were a few encouraging signs despite the collection of bad passes, blown defensive assignments and forced shots that passed for Friday’s Warriors/Lakers game, but they weren’t enough to overshadow the deciding factor in the game. The Warriors aren’t just struggling to overcome a lack of talent right now; they continue to minimize what little talent their roster can muster with poor execution and unforced errors.

The 90-97 loss to the Lakers is refreshingly easy to break down. The Warriors were softer, sloppier and slower. After the first half — twenty-four of the ugliest minutes of basketball you’ll see this year — the Lakers finally settled in and went to work picking apart the Warriors. They started by controlling the paint at both ends, scoring inside and keeping the Warriors largely on the perimeter. They pushed the tempo, getting some easy baskets in the open court to swing momentum. And although the Warriors fought back in the twilight of the game to make it an interesting final few minutes, their sloppiness on both ends of the court — a bad pass here, a blown assignment there — saved the Lakers from having to dig too deep to bring home a win.

The loss here, as in prior games, is less frustrating than the way the Warriors lost it. Facing the Lakers on the road was bound to be a loss even with Curry healthy. The team could have come in and executed crisply and hoped to make a game of it. Instead, they were simply less bad than the sleep-walking Lakers in the first half, and flailed around against a more focused Lakers attack in the second. You can roll out the usual excuses — injuries, new system, shortened training camp — but at some point before April the Warriors need to show signs that they’re making fewer mistakes and playing smarter basketball. Right now, those key intangibles are trending the wrong direction.

A few individual performances stood out, both for the right and wrong reasons:

Klay Thompson — With his father watching from the broadcast booth, Thompson finally showed some of the potential the Warriors invested in on draft day. He hit a series of beautifully smooth jump shots off curls, giving the Warriors a scoring boost when they needed it. Most impressive was that the high-quality looks came in the half-court, with Thompson rubbing off one and sometimes two screens to get free. It all looked effortless with his quick released, but it was very much a scripted and manufactured opportunity — the type the Warriors rarely succeed in making work. Here’s hoping Jackson’s wise strategy of giving Thompson consistent, meaningful minutes is starting to pay off. With Curry out for an indefinite amount of time, they need him to adapt to the NBA game and settle in sooner rather than later.

Dorell Wright — His shooting was bound to come around eventually. Friday looked a lot more like the confident Wright we saw last year. That’s not to say he’s fully shaken off the lethargy of his first two weeks. His desperation pass to Derek Fisher off the Ellis steal is precisely the type of play the Warriors couldn’t afford to make, and his airball three was the perfect coda for a night when the Warriors adopted the “just throw it at the basket and maybe it’ll go in” ethos in all areas of the game. Still, Wright desperately needed something — anything — positive to build from following this road trip. Hopefully this performance closes the chapter on an awful series of games.

Nate Robinson — 31 minutes isn’t a bad debut for a player on the fringe of the NBA this time last week. Robinson looked to be on his best behavior during his most effective stretch in the first half, moving the ball, playing under control and selectively choosing his shots. The composure broke down a bit as the game continued — he had a crucial unforced error on a blown lay-up where he appeared to look back to gauge his dunk space rather than just go for the lay-up — but even in a less disciplined state he’s pretty much the Warriors only veteran option when Ellis heads to the bench. He’s going to get major minutes regardless of his play until Curry returns. Here’s hoping he doesn’t abuse the guaranteed opportunity.

Monta Ellis — A physically pounding game for Ellis, with the Lakers crushing him every time he went to the basket or around screens. But he stuck with it, and delivered some beautiful passes for easy buckets thanks to the extra attention he drew. Jackson watched Ellis’ minutes a bit more closely than in San Antonio, and Ellis’ late-game performance was sharper as a result. With the exception of a few missed free throws, his fourth quarter minutes were both efficient (8 points on 3-5 shooting) and enabling for his teammates (4 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 steals). Ellis and the coaching staff did a nice job getting others involved in the offense so the final 12 minutes weren’t simply Monta vs. the World (not just Metta World Peace).

David Lee — His final line is far more impressive than his impact on the game. He looked overmatched by the bigger Lakers front line. He had seven turnovers, and completely lost Pau Gasol on two crucial fourth quarter defensive sequences that resulted in baskets. With Curry out, the Warriors need Lee to be a forceful, stabilizing force. He was largely passive Friday night — getting noticed mostly for his mistakes, not for his contributions. He still may be recovering from whatever knocked him out of the Phoenix game, but his recent play is doubly disappointing given his excellent run during the season’s first week.

Kwame Brown — There are unexpected joys to the late-game moments of otherwise demoralizing Warriors losses. Like when Bob Fitzgerald attempts to make a serious comparison between Kwame Brown and Andrew Bynum. Even the supremely tolerant and stoic Jim Barnett seemed taken aback, sliding in quickly that the 6-16 rebound differential between the two players might need to be factored into the comparison. All spin aside, Brown had a decent night defensively on Bynum — using his size well against the Lakers’ budding star — and flushed down a few baskets thanks to nice set-ups from Ellis. But when you factor in all the easy looks that should have been points, the missed free throws, the bobbled passes and the abuse he took on the boards, Brown’s night comes out as a net loss for the Warriors.

Ekpe Udoh — Like Brown, Udoh’s performance cut both ways. He knocked down two pretty shots early in the game, then followed the collected, confident moves with a series of turnovers. He was active defensively on the perimeter, beautifully denying Bryant any daylight during one switch, but over-committed a few times as well, giving the Lakers easy lanes to the rim. I expected a larger role for Udoh with Biedrins out, but he never fully engaged the game after those first two shots. His 15 minutes were otherwise largely forgettable.

Two weeks into the season, it’s now time for the Warriors to take stock. The surging optimism of the initial homestand is gone, replaced with the dully aching failure of their ugly road losses. Saturday night suddenly becomes a significant game to regain a bit of positive momentum. Utah is a beatable team, particularly at the Arena. But if the Warriors continue to make the same mistakes and show the same poor execution of this road trip, one of the few winnable games in this tough early-season stretch will end up being just another missed opportunity.

Adam Lauridsen

Post navigation

Thanks for excellent analysis. You are right on on your players analysis, Monta+. However, I did feel like Ws put on some gritty performances and lost the game on when Pau Gasol hit two completely open jumpers as you mentioned as I posted earlier. Warriors were minus two starters and were playing on road against a contending team. Excuses, may be but I think coaches did a good job incorporating Nate Robinson and sticking with DWright and Klay. Only knock on coaching is not playing Brandon Rush enough mins.

WorriedWarrior

Chalk this one up as a Warriors WIN! Too bad the stupid refs rigged the game so it looked like the big market Laker won. David Stern, you suck!

Plus we were playing without their superstar Steph Curry and still hung with em. Monta showed why he’s an MVP candidate. Klay Thompson made more than 2 shots so he should be a shoe in for Rookie of the Year (unless the league office screws us again with their East Coast bias… Warriors get no respect! Also, David Lee – solid double double! Looking forward to seeing him playing in the All-Star game.

Now is the time to buy tickets, guys and give this team the home coming they deserve. Wins on the road mean playoffs. Go Warriors! Buy tickets!

Lacob is a basketball god! I wish I was a women so he’d sexually harass me!

TheCity

Nice breakdown Adam.

Nice to see Klay find that smooth shot of his. The analyst on the NBA TV feed was totally up on Klay. And yes, kudos to Mark Jax for giving him consistent minutes. I shudder to think what would have happened if Nelson was coach, instead.

blingfaith

No one can polish a turd better than Fitz. That is why he is still around.

SJ Jim

I’ve never done this before, but I listened to about half the game with the sound off. Fitz’s whining is becoming unbearable. I’m also extremely tired of Barnett repeating his explanation of how to finish a 2-on-1 fast break about five times EVERY game. Jesus Christ, we GET IT already.

Good to see Dorell starting to look like he wants to play. Same for Klay T. I don’t know why it didn’t get more attention, but KT actually looked pretty good defending Kobe on several sequences. Surprising.

Agree with Adam about Lee’s numbers being misleading. Lee looked worse tonight than he did vs Phoenix. He was especially bad in the first quarter, and 7 turnovers is just unacceptable for one of our leaders. For a guy with his experience, I can’t believe how bad his decision-making is at times, and his defensive positioning was often poor as well. On offense, when he’s failing to finish around the hoop, he’s becoming a liability out there. I hope he will bounce back soon with more energy and better shooting.

When Kwame is six inches from the bucket, he needs to go strong and dunk the damn ball! He has no touch for finger-rolls, and even misses routine layups. Just jam it, Kwame.

When Nate entered the game and made Derek Fisher look like a big guard when they were matched up, I just had to chuckle. Nate looked good, though. I thought he was just looking back to see how far away Gasol was on the play where he had the breakaway. Unfortunate, but I don’t understand the assumption by some experienced broadcasters that he was trying to do something fancy. He was worried about the big guys coming from behind him, and he lost the handle. Sheesh, give him a break.

We need to get back to rebounding the ball as a group. I know L.A. had an advantage with Bynum and Gasol, but there were way too many times when I saw our players just standing around and watching when shots went up. Wright (Dorell), Udoh, McGuire, Thompson, Rush… all of them needed to grab more boards in a game like this.

coltraning

it is early yet, but I wonder if anyone else has paused in concern that Jackson’s warriors are 25th in PPG and have yet to crack the century mark in 7 games? I know Jackson was a very smart and effective PG (sure as hell did not play any defense), but the Ws look pretty sad on O so far. Maybe playing Kwame Brown instead of Klay Thompson during crunch time on a night the kid was going off and convincingly so might have had something to do with it. With all due respect, Adam, I disagree with your saying “Facing the Lakers on the road was bound to be a loss even with Curry healthy.” Assuming the Ws played at the level they did tonight AND Curry was healthy, this might well have been a game they took, ibid the SA game.

coltraning

SJ Jim,

I’ve a suggestion. Put on some of your favorite tunes as a soundtrack and the game will go down much easier. There is really precious little that even the best announcers add to the game, you can always unmute it if you need to, and in the case of Blob Fatzgerald (aka the Comcast HO), listening to some sweet tunes while you watch seems like a better option. I guess you do miss the unintentional comedy of Kwame>Bynum if Fatzgerald world…

Friday

Agree Kwame should just jam that mother home every time he gets it in close. plenty of opportunity for him to do so as Ellis drop offs to Brown is starting to look a lot like Baron’s to AB that worked so well for that offensively challenged big man. with Kwame’s heft, he ain’t no Biens and could get a dozen easy if Ellis sees fit to set him up like he’s been doing, AB continues to sit, and Kwame power dunks.

KlayT looked real smooth at times, and given time to acclimate himself to getting open off screens in the bigger faster more athletic pro game, i can see why they’re high on him. Reminded me a couple of times of Reggie curling and West spotting up. Money stroke.

And for all those clamoring for Jenkins (and I’m high on him) he does appear to me to be thinking too much out there and at times looks confused (not to any great extent, just seen that look and body language a few times with him and the mental part may be holding him back for now); meanwhile I love the Nate pick up insofar as he’s built strong too (a la Jenks) but has far far more confidence and a deeper bag of tricks. I liked him back in the days he teamed with Lee, so hopefully that chemistry can help Lee find his zone a bit more often (no sense bagging on him in this game, ’cause if you expected him to do well against the size of the Bynum and the length/grit of the Pau, well…).

Looking forward to Curry resting/healing for a couple of months, and to Jackson playing 10-11 guys (I’d like to see more of what Chris Wright can do) so they all get development time, and the Ws get a great piece in next year’s draft. I’m ok with that scenario.

purvisshort

Hate to be an excuse-maker but you have to beat the refs also to win in LA. The traveling that Kobe does never gets called (of course). Late in the game he took an out of bounds pass and jumped around several times with both feet before making a move and getting fouled. I know it happens all the time in the NBA, but why then call it on us. Udoh was jobbed on his moves (nice to be able to run it back in slow motion). Been around long enough to know that you have to overcome the reality on playing on the road and we did not deserve tho win by our play.
What the hell is wrong with Beans? Did he twist his little toe? No come back-player of the year for Bambi. Talk about overpaid!!!
David Lee had to play too much center in this game. Not one he wants to play back when he gets home. And what is the deal with his free throws? Somehow he put his left on crooked before the game.
Monta lost his composure and kept taking it inside to those tall trees.
He is not going to get calls on the road against the Lakers. His basketball I.Q. is suspect to say the least.
The Lakers are not an great team anymore, but they’re much better than we are. Kobe’s third quarter won this game. Where was Todd Fuller on defense? Kobe ate him up.
Like someone said in the last thread – what the heck are we doing being a fan of this team? What a waste of time!

monsta

I’m beginning to think it’s all about David Lee.

When I think back to those aggressive, physical wins the Warriors had last year (against the Jazz, then the Bulls, then another team I can’t remember), and the defensive, tough Warriors we saw last week, that’s what stands out to me — the play of Lee both ends of the court, but particularly his activity on D.

(btw, if Curry were there, or if the refs were fair — all of that would’ve just forced the Lakers to turn it up a notch and actually play hard. That’s not why the Ws lost. LA looked like they didn’t care about the game till Q3.)

Anyway, I thought Lee was supposed to be Mr. Consistency, isn’t that his rep? From what I’ve seen, his effort, intensity and overall play swings back and forth a lot.

I’d rather have boring, consistent, tough David Lee, rather than hot-and-cold, fiery-and-then-limp David Lee.

Bob Fitz comparing Kwame to Bynum is like comparing Fitz to Bill King. He is a joke and a shill for the owners. He should be working in North Korea for the govt. Another year, Another lottery pick.Another joke. Go Niners

Jet Set

I will say what nobody wants to: Monta needs to move on, and cannot be our number one player.

Crunch time after crunch time, he dominates the ball, plays too fast, drives into traffic. He’s never going to get the calls, and the team is never going to get the calls down the stretch of game. He doesn’t instill confidence in his teammates. It’s never going to happen with him as a number 1.

The calls go to marketable NBA stars. Ones that are leaders, make their teammates better, smile, build relationships with other players, media and the refs. Hit FT’s in clutch situations.

You can blame Stern if you want, but the refs see right through the Monta PR campaign, and the last PR hit, is the worst yet. From the Moped, to the fights with Nellie, to his texts…they’re never going to give him the calls. They don’t want to see him on National TV. We need to divest.

For the last three years this team has got to be the worst in the last 4 minutes of close games. During this time we’ve had 3 coaches and plenty of guys that can hit shots. We all know it, just too many don’t want too admit it.

The team’s schudule gets brutal in a month. My strong suggestion would be to move Monta & AB for expiring contracts, and in Monta’s case a pick, shut down Curry, play Klay, Udoh, Jenkins as much as possible, and protect that lottery draft pick from going to the Jazz.

There’s a lot of youth with potential. It’s time to develop it, get more, have money to go shopping and re-brand this thing.

Marquee Jackson

Good game for the Dubs. Lots of turnovers again but they played hard. Kobe had to really play, scoring 39 points for the Lakers to get the win. The Dubs were in this game all the way, were never blown out or out of reach. Focus and attention to detail could have secured this game.

al oha

A Lottery Pick?

Wow, there is a Consolation Prize at the end of this developing abortion of a season.

Speaking of which. With Utah coming to town, I wonder if their F.O. is thinking twice about how much they want to win this game tonight. With every win, the Warriors come closer to falling in that dreaded Limbo Zone of losing their 1st Round Pick and perpetual Mediocrity, ’cause they surely AREN’T one of the top 8 teams making the Playoffs.

And Utah isn’t either, so they will be hoping for the Warriors to bring them an additional #8-14 pick in the next Draft. A loss to the W’s bring them one step closer to that.

16 of the 30 NBA teams make the Playoffs. 14 don’t. The Warriors have been one of those 16 only ONCE in 17 YEARS. If they fall in the #8-14 Draft Pick slot, losing their pick to Utah, of a consensus good Draft, it will almost assure them of continuing to be in NBA purgatory.

I’m not advocating for the W’s to tank. I’m just hoping they continue to do what comes naturally to them.

rigged

‘I’m not advocating for the W’s to tank. I’m just hoping they continue to do what comes naturally to them.’…get beaten

Warriors won’t even have their first round pick this year!
It’s not surprising for the refs not give respect for anyone from this Warrior team.

KBrown and NRobinson are obviously playing for the contract and this players aren’t even reliable contributors from where they came from. So, what to expect from this ballclub?

You build on so-so players, the best you get is ‘some’ mediocre performance…what else?

rigged

…the suck-ttitude..

FeatherRiverDan

same time
same place
same warriors

c

Bravo @ WarrioedWarriors #2

+++
Chalk this one up as a Warriors WIN! Too bad the stupid refs rigged the game so it looked like the big market Laker won. David Stern, you suck!

Plus we were playing without their superstar Steph Curry and still hung with em. Monta showed why he’s an MVP candidate. Klay Thompson made more than 2 shots so he should be a shoe in for Rookie of the Year (unless the league office screws us again with their East Coast bias… Warriors get no respect! Also, David Lee – solid double double! Looking forward to seeing him playing in the All-Star game.

Now is the time to buy tickets, guys and give this team the home coming they deserve. Wins on the road mean playoffs. Go Warriors! Buy tickets!

Lacob is a basketball god! I wish I was a women so he’d sexually harass me!
+++

Tired

There are several things the Ws could have done to actually win the game last night, none of which were impossible.

They could have made more free throws. Ooops.

They could have made fewer dumb turnovers. Ooops

They could have kept up the D in the second half. Oh well.

They could have held Kobe to his average per game. Well, maybe not, he was pretty effin hot. Hey Ws, you know he is going to turn it up in the second half. NO plans for that? Oh, you didn’t know that? Never mind.

But I ‘m down with continuing to play everyone and look for new talent. I am up for developing chemistry amongst the whole team, which will take time. I am in favor of keeping our one lonely draft pick.

And for those of you who call MOnta unstoppable: Kobe is unstoppable, Monta isn’t. Nothing against Monta. I like that he he is trying to be a team player this year. He just has a ways to go.

Incremental improvement. Thompson, DWright and Robinson show promise. Our bench beat their bench. Not so bad.

🙂

Grey Warden

3 more turnovers and Lee would’ve had a triple double!

I’ve been harsh on Thompson for his shooting, but yesterday he shot the ball well. Maybe we need his dad to attend every Warriors game from now on.

Confused as to why Mark Jackson didn’t call to foul Gasol at the first opportunity with 25 sec left on the clock, and instead, tells them not to foul and wastes 10 seconds before fouling the same person. He just robbed them of valuable time. Also Thompson was shooting well and he wasn’t even in the game at the end to chuck up a 3.

Is there anything else DWright can do on offense besides catch and shoot, and a pump fake? Guy looks completely lost if the defender doesn’t buy into his pump fake.

deano

MT II points out in his article today that Ellis has dished out at least 7 assists in 6 straight games; and, that the last Warrior to do so was Baron Davis, who matched that feat during the 48 win season of 2007-08. Baron had better targets to pass to, which further highlights Ellis’ accomplishment. Is it at all possible that Ellis is becoming the PG that Nellie said he needed to be?

Here’s another question that suddenly, unexpectedly presents itself: Is Kwame Brown becoming a quality center? He has gotten better as this young season has progressed. The upcoming game against Orlando may be very interesting. If Brown does well against Howard, the rumor-mill might have to start spinning backwards.

al oha

There are a bunch of guys who play pickup games at Paki Playground near the Waikiki Zoo who can:

– handle the ball better than DWright.

– finish at the rim better than DLee.

– shoot free throws better than Kwame, AB, and apparently most of the team.

– rebound better than Udoh, although he did get a few that came right to him last night. It’s pretty sad that Curry’s RPG is higher than Ekpe’s.

If you can only find “one-way” players to play for your team, you’d think that they’d be at least minimally proficient at doing the “other” things you’d expect a basketball player to do at their positions, especially if they are getting paid millions to do it.

zgoddbap

monsta says,” all of that would’ve just forced the Lakers to turn it up a notch and actually play hard”.
I agree, it seems teams can turn it up a notch whenever they want or need to against the Warriors.
I must be a gluten, this team is hard to watch just like all the other Warrior teams (with two years of exception).
I really dont like going to bed mad after yet another loss but I will continue to do this more times than not unfotunatley.
It’s hard without an allstar much less a superstar, but I do think something positive will happen before years end. Maybe just wishful thinking…
I do enjoy this blog Adam and thanks to most…

al oha

z,

Let go of the “attachment” to whether the W’s win or lose. You can still root for them. I have learned to do this or I would go crazy, or get crazier than I already am. It is not worth being mad or losing sleep over.

After 17 years and only one Playoff appearance, it is almost a given.

George Harrison said, “If you don’t EXPECT anything, then all of life is a BONUS”.

Look at a Warrior Win in that way.

RickP

I dislike Giggles intensely. Hard to believe that Cohan preferred him over Greg Papa. Equally hard to believe that Lacob didn’t can him immediately, despite the renewed contract. Interesting that Papa is involved again.

Giggles was a 680 sports talk show host whose thing was to be nasty to people. Not what you want in a guy you’re going to spend a season with.

(I named him Giggles, years ago, because of the annoying little Giggle he makes when he says something snide).

I guarantee that was his plan. Utah is down. Denver is not as good…etc..Lacob though he could get 46 wins and a PO spot. Oops.

The Oracle

Regarding ME’s assist.

I don’t want to put a damper on his improved team play, and his continued improvement each and every year imo with the possible exception of Curry’s rookie year where I thought he was a horrible teammate, but let’s be real.

ME drives to the basket, early and often, and if he can’t finish, he dumps the ball off to the nearest big. Kwame taking up space or AB or sometimes Lee. And if that big man gets an easy basket, assist to ME. And those are about 80% of ME’s assists. And lead also to ME’s turnover’s when he can’t make the dump off.

Credit to ME for being able to consistently get by his man, into the paint, and finish, and if he can’t, to look to lay the ball off to the nearest big.

But these aren’t the typical assists of a PG, and I believe that taken out of context, overrate ME’s court vision and ability to pass and set up teammates as a PG.

In other words, if you think the 7+ assists a game by ME are an indication of excellent court vision, passing ability, and PG skills, you’re not watching the games. We’ll take them, but most of ME’s assists come from his ability to break his man down off the dribble, and most of his assists are the 2 foot lay off variety. Sorry, he’s not a PG and isn’t developing into one despite the assist numbers.

Watch and learn.

Mopedelic

Regarding Monta’ PG skills, I agree with the post above.

Monta is a scorer first, with that deeply engrained mentality and the attitude that goes with it. In that respect, he is in the Kobe, Wade, Westbrook or Rose mould. All excellent players, some superstars. Rose and Westbrook are willing to learn and develop their PG skills and Rose is much farther ahead than is Westbrook. Kobe and Wade can pass very well if they wish to, but will never be mistaken for a classic PG. Monta has made a lot of progress in his passing skills but I do not think it has change his primary mentality, to score, often and a lot.

jsl

Well, another disappointing loss.

And, worst of all, another poorly coached second half by Jax — who seems to be missing the point about using his better defenders altogether. To wit, Q4 saw:

1. No Rush;

2. No U;

3. No McG;

4. No Jenkins;

5. All Lee (and he was at his worst last night, especially re his “No D rep” which is back in full force) and All Monta, all the time. Guarateed to Lose.

It’s like, early in Q3, Jax simply stops coaching and goes all Nelson/Notso on us. Preach D; coach D; play D; and you’ll find that the O starts clicking with greater ball movement and team effort.

We’re not going to win ’em all, but we don’t half to play like Nelson/Notso’s coaching in Q4.

Still, some good things to see:

1. Kwame, for all his weaknesses — put backs and FT’s, mainly — is a real force on D; the first we’ve had around here in ages. He needs a ton of work on the short shots and FT’s, but if he’s open to working and Jax, or someone, will stay on him, we’ll do alright at the five.

2. Monta has grown up, a lot. Altho his D still lags WAY too much — whenever he took Kobe, it was certain death, tho Dorell didn’t do much better — his offensive game has grown by leaps and bounds this year. He has no PG floor vision, but he’s gotten very good at the two-man game, and he feeds the bigs very well.

His post-up game is a revelation — and looks so effortless; where was that before this year? He’s still forcing shots, and driving without a purpose, but not as much as before.

4. KT will make it. That curl shot is almost precisely like Steph’s — and we’ll need it, with Curry out for a while.

Let’s see how it goes tonight.

deano

However a PG gets his assists, they are a sign of his ability, and desire, to involve his teammates in the offense. Monta has developed a fine ability, and willingness, to drive and dish/kick. He has also gotten assists off entry passes.

We will all watch and learn whether Monta’s increased assists/game are followed by other signs of developing point guard skills. That he has developed this season as much as he already has is a pleasant surprise to me. Given the unreliability of Curry’s ankle, Monta’s importance to the team has only increased.

believewhat

I am impressed with Monta’s passing but with Oracle and Mopedelic that he is not a PG. He can fill in as PG when needed but shouldn’t be asked to do that on regular basis. 20 FGA per game is too many for a PG. I do think, he is playing like an all star though.

RickP

I’ve been watching Monta’s longer passes.

Unlike say, Curry, Monta rarely gets the ball to the receiver in shooting position. His passes are usually significantly off center. The shooter has to awkwardly reach for the ball, then try to get set for the shot, usually while the defender is closing in. Almost all of these shots miss.

If there was a stat for “blown assists”, I think Monta’s number would be high. (That would be the number of times there would have been an assist credited had the shot dropped).

RickP with the most incorrect take in ages on this board.
That’s saying something.

meir34

Let’s see Oracle. Monta beats everyone to get deep and dishes off for an easy basket and that’s bad? Better to get Curry’s 4 assists to 5 turnovers. Okay, I get it, I think. I just won’t say what I think.

Adam I agreed with all of your individual player assessments but Nate and Udoh and Lee, in part. However I didn’t agree with the conclusions you reached from those analyses and the game.

First, yes Nate scored okay, especially early, But our motion was hugely thrown off by his extended minutes. In my opinion that was the cause of many of others’ uncharacteristic turnover numbers. Lee is an example, and other than that my only addition to your analysis is forgetting to mention that he matched Gasol’s scoring and rebounds, for the most part. He also had a huge assignment of taking Gasol and Murphy (outside shooting) but helping to converge on Bynum each time he got the ball. And, of course most of all a reminder that he came out of the hospital just this week and almost certainly with the big physical effort of his assignments in LA, he felt the effects of a flu not likely completely over. Udoh too should be complimented for his short stint bothering Bryant, of all assignments, on the perimeter.

Which brings me to Nate. That number of minutes given his unfamiliarity with our players and the system was damaging and we were out of synch during most of his tenure on the court. I like the Nate signing, he’s a much better version of what Ish gives us at this time. But like Ish, he should be used as instant offense with a short hook, NOT as Ish too was used, as the PG for any length of time. I don’t know if MJ, given whatever it took to sign Nate for so little (OKC paid the bulk of his 4 mill salary; reportedly we got him for around a mill, adjusted for time left in the season) MJ feels compelled to give him a lot of minutes. Monta needed rest, but Nate was used for much more than that.

Huge applause for Klay and those that have been dumping on management for signing him (actually mostly West’s contribution, praise and blame if needed should first go to him). The potential value of having a fantastically smooth and high jump shot from the perimeter on a 2 guard who is 6’7″ makes the mouth water.

I know the Curry fans won’t like this but go back to the original plan to resign Baron for the year, have Monta learn the PG position from him and make him our PG. The Moped and then Curry draft ended that idea, but presented us with the dilemma of two 6’3″ (and Curry’s even an inch shorter) in the backcourt together. Workable but not ideal overall. These two could and often did work together for great offensive production, but Curry’s turnovers persisted and his deep penetration for those easy dishoffs that Oracle so undervalues, just won’t or can’t come. Once Wright gets into his rhythm, if it happens, there will be kickouts to the open wings, as well, off those deep drives.

Wright may or may not be back. But it was good to see those shots as well. His miss late on the predictable 3 pt shot, guarded by Kobe who seemed to know what was coming before we even took the ball out, wasn’t thrilling.

Here’s my biggest complaint on your analysis, Adam, that parenthetical phrase noting that we play 8 of the best teams in the league in our first 10 games was missing. Look at the easy schedule of some of the teams and compare that with ours. We have two wins and maybe one or two more will come out of that group. The season is far from lost if we handle things right and Monta’s knee gets better. He’s not getting up nearly as high as usual in his varied driving finishes and you can see the trainer working with his bandaged knee on every rest and long time-out.

meir34

Losing Curry would be one thing and, down the road some additional surgery seems like a likely expectation, but not getting the value back from trade that has been present for some time kills me. I felt the same way for different reasons, obviously, about Sprewell after his tanking performance following the Webber trade–even after Nellie was gone, and poor Lanier was coaching him. And everyone here knows I’d been preaching the same line about BW and the theory of deteriorating assets as time goes on in a rookie contract, and the need to move a guy who hadn’t met the job description.

It’s sometimes hard to move stocks that don’t do what was expected when you buy them, and when you still have hopes for them and there still is a story to be told, but as a former Bond Trader (before going to grad school a thousand years ago), I can tell you ALL successful traders I’ve known do so. It’s true with all assets. And Bonds like lottery Rookies on the cheap Rookiie Contract, other things being equal, diminish in value as the contract moves along in time (and gets more costly as well). ANY kind of serious concerns after a year and for sure after two, if there still is a demand for them, should be exchanged for other real needs. We didn’t get value for POB, for Ike, for BW, for AR and now for Curry. Only the latter one, possibly two can be laid on Lacob, and for AR basically we got Lee, which I consider a super deal. But Curry was our best trade chip of the lot and count on it, his trade value HAS diminished!!

meir34

Interesting all the picks at any weaknesses in Monta and total discounting of serious ones in Curry. At least up to now.

Hollinger and others have described him as one dimensional and an outrageous volume shooter. One dimensional in scoring and IGNORING his two years in a row of being in the TOP 3 in STEALS (no one is mentioning his FIVE last night??), his being TOP among 2 guards in Assists, even while Curry was playing 30-38 minutes a game. Now his assist to turnover ratio is way way above Curry, who leads our team in turnovers, according to Steinmetz’s stat analysis based on a small N of 7 games, and those are dismissed as only resulting in easy baskets. What am I missing here?? 10-2 or 3, in MOnta, resulting in MORE high percentage baskets, is worse than 4 to 5 in Curry. Okay, I get it. Objectivity insufficiency.

jsl

Meir-rhea Again!

Someone, anyone, put a plug in his pie-hole.

SJ Jim

coltraning, good idea. I’ll bring an ipod to the tv room from now on.

Everybody is now complaining about Fitz (and rightly so), but is nobody else annoyed by Barnett’s endless (literally) repetition of how to “split the defender” on a fast break? I mean, four times per game for 9 (?) years… it gets just a little bit old.

For all the folks who have suggested playing DW at the 2, are you coming to your senses yet? Somehow when that guy tries to dribble in traffic, it looks like he’s using an under-inflated football (okay, to be fair, maybe a rugby ball).

Al, since I know you’re completely serious about the Paki Playground comment, maybe you could get some of those guys a tryout? I mean, it couldn’t hurt, right?

purvis @9, “What the hell is wrong with Beans? Did he twist his little toe? No come back-player of the year for Bambi. Talk about overpaid!!!” I know… did anybody notice even the slightest limp when he came off the floor the other night? I didn’t.

David Lee worrie$ me. Even more than la$t year, I’m getting that buyer’$ remor$e feeling when I $ee him blowing layup$ and tapping people on the $houlder a$ they’re going by him for dunk$ (and 1).

I agree with Adam’s opening comments. No matter how well we might play for 3 quarters, there are too many Chris Pauls, Steve Nashes, Tony Parkers, Kobe Bryants, etc etc etc to take the ball in the final quarter and simple put us out of our misery. It’s going to be another long year. Don’t think about winning, and try to find some good tunes to listen to during the broadcasts.

al oha

Is there a toxic reaction when you mix kool aid with pure excrement?

Just asking.

believewhat

It is impossible for meir to give kudos to Monta without Curry Comparision.

meir is an idiot, Curry had 8asts, 2tos last game. Also, everyone here is appreciative of Monta’s play. Still not a PG to many including me. If he is a PG or atleast if even one team in the league believed, he would have been traded last year.

al oha

Funniest Mental Image Description of the Day:

“For all the folks who have suggested playing DW at the 2, are you coming to your senses yet? Somehow when that guy tries to dribble in traffic, it looks like he’s using an under-inflated football (okay, to be fair, maybe a rugby ball).”

Go to nba.com and work on the two player splits. See how well the team fared with Monta in and Curry out. What you’ll find is that Monta’s usual poor plus/minus got even worse without Curry. My interpretation is that he doesn’t have NBA level PG skills.

That, of course, refers to past seasons. I actually see some improvement this season, but, if you watch the plus/minus, I think you’ll find that it’s usually negative with Monta at PG (more negative than the team as a whole) and signficantly better with Curry.

I think that anybody with an open mind who watches Monta’s longer passes will see what I posted about.

SJ Jim

al, you beat me to it (I was told I was “posting too quickly”, otherwise I would have beat you to it)…

al, the sad thing is, I think I’m serious. Not only that, but who else can drive to the hoop, leave their feet, do a 270, and fire a perfect pass to someone in the wrong jersey?

Hey, if we had Dwight AND Nate… we could… whoah, my head is spinning now.

TheCity

Oracle at 27 – exactly right about Monta not being a point guard. Thank you.

coltraning

there has been one game this year where the dubs were favored, the Philly disaster. Tonight they’re favored by 3…we shall see if the new and pretty woeful offense can crack 100 points with three PGs not naturally suited to that role. Of course with Curry out, the Ws are down to two credible and consistent scoring threats, so can’t blame Jackson that players are not making open looks…losing the league’s best shooter in Curry hurts a lot, as does the loss of Reggie W…

MJax is stil feeling his way, but I think he needs enough good sense to keep going to the hot hand in Klay Thompson during that crucial 2 minutes at the end.

To end optimistically, and I know, I know, this is the warriors so familiar talk, BUT: despite being short a hobbled Curry almost all 7 games, MOnta out a game, Lee out one and should have been two, the Ws have been in winnable games against some stiff competition, other than 1 quarter in LA and 3 quarters against Philly and one quarter in Phoenix.

Btw, to trade Curry to rent 55 games of Dwight Howard would rival the Webber for Gugliotta disaster or the Jason Richardson plus 10 million dollar trade exception ending up being the outstanding Brandan Wright. While the one thing I agree with Cap’n Ahab on is that Curry is by far our most desired trade asset (and his stock has plummeted thanks to the ankle injury), you don’t trade away a valuable asset for a star who has already publicly said he would only sign an extension with LA, MAvs or New York.

I am hopeful this one is a laugher tonight. Am recovering from surgery today (nothing serious, removing bone spurs) and would be nice to see…think the Ws have the beef to bang with Jefferson and Favors, and it is one of only 9 teams in the league where our best players out rank theirs in the star realm…