JasonOfOrillia:Because not believing in your particular conception of a supreme being if an act of hate against that supreme being.

Yeah, here's the thing. And I share this with you coming from a "small town". I'm well aware that Niles Township has about a hundred thousand people according to 2010 census data, but in this area, that would qualify as the same thing. Modern "Evangelical" Christianity has fallen back on a tenet that was more at home in 1800s spiritual revival episodes than today: These are people who, from a very early age in their Youth Groups and Sunday schools, are taught that non-believers and people who legitimately ascribe to other religions do so because they either don't "know" about their God, or they legitimately hate their God and their religion, and everything they stand for.

They areindoctrinated with the superiority of their religious doctrine and writings, and taught that anyone who questions them or believes differently is their enemy. Their motives are always alterior and in league with Satan.

This also serves as an example of what an "out" Atheist in the United States has to deal with. Personally, I knew I was an atheist at 14. Not because of any kind of "rebellion" or any other tripe that is traditionally taught, but because after studying the religious material I was constantly bombarded with, it made no sense. I continued to uphold a lie to my parents, my youth pastor, and my church group for four years, until I could voluntarily leave home and my church as an adult, because I knew the kind of persecution and bullying I would experience in a small southern town of 7,000 people.

Even today I still get crap from the religious because I "believe different". Including being told I should be fired for being an atheist because I didn't actively participate in a prayer during a memorial ceremony earlier this year by someone I work with.

So yeah. To these idiots, it is a legitimate and willful act of hate against their God and the Christ himself that you do not believe in their religion and it alone.

Popular Opinion:JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

First, look at history. Look at what Christians have done to people throughout history. Such as how they treated the native americans who didn't convert here in the States. Heck, look at what they've even done to each other (one sect vs another sect). I've personally witnessed Christians treating non-Christians horribly throughout my entire life. I've been physically attacked because I didn't say the "under god" portion of the pledge of allegiance and a christian happened to notice. My in-laws refused to come to my wife and I's wedding because we didn't have a Christian wedding in a church. My mother in law wouldn't even really speak to me for the first 5 years I was married to my wife. I saw a fellow coworker get hassled perpetually because the Christians who worked there found out he was an atheist until eventually they sabotaged his work and got him fired because he wasn't willing to convert. The only reason I didn't get the same treatment was because I avoided any discussion about religion like the plague and I still caught some flack from them because I wasn't very forthcoming about my religious (or lack thereof) views on things. I've had friends become Christians and then spend all their time trying to convince me that I'm going to burn in a pit of fire and be tortured for eternity unless I join their club because they knew I was an atheist... and the list goes on.

I'm tolerant of others. I don't give a shiat what religion you believe or don't believe. But the moment a religious group starts trying to affect my life, starts treating me or other people like shiat because they're not a member of that religious group, they EARN their reputation. And this is an ongoing thing... throughout history. Not just my story... but a million other people's stories, and I'm absolutely certain that a good portion of those stories are far worse that what I've had to put up with.

Now guess how many Christians I've physically attacked because they believe in god? Guess how many I tried to get fired because they go to church on sunday? Guess how many people I tried threatened with torture and burning forever... none. And what is with this, "real atheist" and "fark atheist" bullshiat? If someone doesn't believe in any gods/supernatural beings/etc, that person is an atheist. Just because I have REASONS I do not like the way a particular religion's members conduct themselves in general does not make me a 'fark atheist'. I'm still just an atheist.

If you happen to be an atheist and you just prefer to ignore the things Christians do to other people here in the States, you're welcome to do so... but don't expect everyone to just lay down and take it because you do.

Popular Opinion:JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

When did atheists vote to outlaw gay marriage? To try to sneak non-science into science classrooms? Use public money for solely religious proselytization and benefit?

Oh, right. That never happened. I'll bash all of those actions, because those actions are incompatible with democracy and a sane, pluralistic society. Believe whatever mumbo-jumbo you want on your own time. Don't try to force it on me or make me pay for it. You've just got your panties in a twist because you're finally being called on your bullsh*t. Being told you don't have the extra privilege you think you should isn't bashing or persecution, sparky.

He next tried the Morton Grove Public Library, but experienced similar results. A library board trustee called Mehta's blog, the Friendly Atheist, a "hate group," and questioned the legality of accepting a donation originally intended for the park district.

Really? Let me go check out this website.

[reads blog]

Yeah, if that's your idea of a "hate group" then your ass is filled with your head.

Popular Opinion:Pitabred: Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

When did atheists vote to outlaw gay marriage? To try to sneak non-science into science classrooms? Use public money for solely religious proselytization and benefit?

Oh, right. That never happened. I'll bash all of those actions, because those actions are incompatible with democracy and a sane, pluralistic society. Believe whatever mumbo-jumbo you want on your own time. Don't try to force it on me or make me pay for it. You've just got your panties in a twist because you're finally being called on your bullsh*t. Being told you don't have the extra privilege you think you should isn't bashing or persecution, sparky.

more people i know that have never been to any church that hate gays than people that claim to be christian.the new testament teaches "judge not, lest you be judged", therefore, anyone that bashes gays is not christian.

I don't think it matters if they are 'really christians'. Thats the name they act under, therefore that's what they get called out under.

hardinparamedic:Gyrfalcon: So, how do you fail to "actively participate," assuming you weren't standing ostentatiously in the front of the room glaring at everyone while they were kneeling in prayer? And how did they know otherwise? This always mystifies me, because as a nondenominational agnostic, I occasionally get forced into Catholic church (for my nephews' confirmations, etc.) and I do not participate in their arcane rites; but I don't do it in an obvious way; I just sit quietly in the pew while they kneel, stand, pray, etc.

So unless you're aggressively mocking the preacher during services, how do these mooks know you're not "actively participating"? Are you supposed to fall down and begin speaking in tongues?

Apparently, not closing your eyes and just remaining silent is a horrible disrespect to the dead.

...But how would they know you kept your eyes open if they closed theirs?

aerojockey:FTFA: Mehta originally raised the money in late October following news that American Legion Post 134 pulled its support from the Morton Grove Park District in response to a park board commissioner's refusal to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

So basically this atheist guy raises this money and tries to donates it as a way to make some political point, and some of the recipients don't to be involved in that. Not seeing a problem, per se.

(Now, when they start chucking back their own drama, I see a problem, but that comes later.)

They will take Christian money but not Atheist money. Yes, it's a political point, but hey... it's money. The government only chose sides when it refused to take the Atheist money, which is why this is an issue. Why the money is donated should be outside what the government cares about, as long as strings aren't attached (i.e., you can only have this money to build a monument to cheese). There weren't any strings attached from Hemant, it was "Here, take this money, do whatever you want with it".

Caffienatedjedi:Having spent time working for my municipal library, I know two things.1: The board is usually not that smart2: Never turn down free money.

Seriously,the people with the least idea of what they are doing are in charge of basically everything public. Libraries, schools, etc.

A local parents group is up in arms over the local library accepting rent from a cellular company for putting up a repeater. I learned first hand the stupidity of such boards. If there was only a building full of knowledge they could go to to learn something...

links136:Caffienatedjedi: Having spent time working for my municipal library, I know two things.1: The board is usually not that smart2: Never turn down free money.

Seriously,the people with the least idea of what they are doing are in charge of basically everything public. Libraries, schools, etc.

clearly, cutng their salaries will bring in better talent!

(Not accusing you of that)

Ah god, I wish I was given control of money beyond buying donuts and shipping packages. I was more of the "Do anything phyisically demanding we tell you to, because you are the only male employee we have", guy. Still, overheard a lot of stuff, municipal employees were tight knit. Still giggle when I think about all the things the board was trying to do while a new library was being built, half the time the director had to explain to them why their idea was illegal.

So the structure and function of the brain, and it's evolution had nothing to do with religious belief? This is what you want to go with?

Especially since preliminary studies have shown higher sensitivity to, and production of dopamine in the temporal lobes of those who identify as religious? Or how "religious experiences" are evoked by hypotension/shock, certain synthetic cannabanoids, psyclobin and peyote?

Religion is because people can't handle the world. Religion gives very simple, pleasant, and easy to digest answers to all of life's difficult questions. "Where did we come from? Why are we here? Why do this bizarre, seemingly random things happen?" And the single biggest one of them all, "What happens to use when we die?"

People are troubled by questions like that. Not having the answer is painful to them. And the very idea that their existence, reason for being, and happenings of the world is 100% chance bothers them. It makes them feel small, disposable, and helpless. And that big one. They idea that one simply stops existing when they die is enough to destroy a person from the inside.

So they turn to religion. Now all of those painful questions and worries in life have easy answers. And after this life is over with they get to be happy, forever!

Why are their brains flooded with dopamine? Because they're happy as a pig in shiat because they have nary a care in the world because they no longer have to worry about all of life's difficult questions and happenings.

It gives them an easy out to feeling happy by escaping reality to live in another. Religion makes them feel special. It makes them feel like they have a purpose. It takes the scary out of life. It answers the questions about what anything happens. They no longer have the think for themselves. They no longer have to worry. They no longer have to fear.

Religion is a crutch for those who are too weak to function otherwise.

No, this isn't a troll. It's not a flattering thing to say about anything, but it's the truth. I understand that some people simply can't cope and need this crutch in life. I feel bad for them. Although I don't condone it; I understand.

This reminds me of talking with someone. He was trying to chose between 2 reasons why something bad was happening. He couldn't figure out which it was. I asked him why he didn't entertain this particular third idea, which was the most likely explanation. He response was, "Because that would be too depressing."

Look at damn near every single religion. They all do that thing where they answer life's difficult questions and tell one how to live."What is that hot ball of burning in the sky?""A dung beetle is pushing a ball of fire across they sky""Why are there seasons?""Some biatch in control of nature ate 6/12 seeds and now has to spend half of the year in hell. When she's gone, shiat gets cold.""Where did we come from?""Some big dude spent a week creating existence and created some smaller dude in his own image. But afterwards was unable to do it again so he took piece of this creation as fodder to create another creation. He did not give these creations the knowledge to make intelligent decisions or recognize danger. He then created something that is entirely forbidden for these creations to interact with and placed it within their reach. And for some reason also felt the need to create a talking animal whose greatest pleasure is trying to fark over these creations by convincing these creatures who lack intelligence to partake of this forbidden thing which their creator placed right in front of them. He set these creations up for failure and then blamed them when they failed. Shiat got worse from there."

Christians believe their views are given to them and sanctioned by a loving God, and therefore cannot be hateful. Christ told them to love each other, but they, like the rest of us, still really want to hate people; unbelievers, homosexuals, whatever. What to do?

Well, some of them will take Christ at his word and genuinely try to love their neighbours as themselves. Of course, confronting and overcoming your own hatred is difficult, and not for everybody; the rest must redefine hatred so that they can hate people and still be Christians.

They came up with the specious "hate the sin, love the sinner" canard, which cleverly relieves them of the burden of self-examination, and allows them to lovingly condemn gays or unbelievers or Papists to hell for all time, in Christ's mercy.

Religion is at its most horrifying when it deliberately twists hatred into love.

CowardlyLion:JohnnyC: Christians(Nearly?) every powerful, conservative group or organization in the history of mankind... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

FTFY.

/if you don't believe in somebody else's mythology/fantasy and it basically doesn't affect your life in any way, why waste the time and effort thinking on it in the first place?

I agree with you in principle; however, it's kind of hard not to think about it when the news bombards us every day with stories about religious people trying to impose their particular beliefs on everyone else, often to the detriment of others, and even society as a whole.

I've never had any issues with people hassling me personally about my atheism (although I don't generally mention it unless somebody asks), and I'm always respectful of other people's views, at least to their faces. (I reserve the right to privately mock those who openly trumpet their faith but feel perfectly free to lie, cheat, steal, etc., because that kind of hypocrisy pisses me off.) On the other hand, I've had people ask me, apparently seriously, what keeps me from killing people, stealing, etc. if I don't believe in god. Which makes it hard not to wonder whether the only thing stopping them from going on a murder spree is that god said not to, because that's actually pretty farking terrifying.

The fact that any organization would be afraid to accept a donation from an atheist because they think religious people might withdraw their support in response is a perfect example of how ridiculous things have gotten in this country. Because they're right, it's entirely possible that could happen, and that's so blindingly stupid that it makes me clutch my head like a stunned monkey.

RidersOfLohan:Have you ever known an atheist who didn't tell anyone and everyone, at every single chance that they are an atheist?

Well, how could you possibly know that? I mean, if they don't mention that they're atheists, you'd never know, right? So, basically everyone you've ever met who hasn't explicitly mentioned that they're religious could have been one of these quiet atheists you're seeking, and you just never noticed...

FatherChaos:r1niceboy: But those extremist atheists just drink beer and talk about outer space. Shameful.

[mindfuldigressions.files.wordpress.com image 325x325]

True, there are no militant atheists. Endlessly self important, sneering, dismissive and just waiting to tell you how self assuring their sense of superiority is, but I don't see them blowing up kids at bus stops.

jso2897:Guy belongs to something called "The Friendly Atheist" some atheist club, I assume - he was donating on their behalf, as best I can understand the wretchedly written article. Possiblysaid it on the check, maybe?

IsOckham'sOccam's Razor a concept, y'know.you know?

jso2897: Or it's a blog, or a hate group, or something. This is a terrible article. I swear to God that I read stuff on the Internets every day that my 8th grade composition teacher would have flunked me for.which my 8th grade composition teacher would have flunked me.

RidersOfLohan:Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It's weird that the park and library would even know about this guy's atheism. What, did they do a background check on him or some shiat? How would they even know?

Have you ever known an atheist who didn't tell anyone and everyone, at every single chance that they are an atheist? It's like people who can't pass an opportunity to say "I'm italian"

Yes, just because you hang out with annoying a-holes, doesn't mean everybody is an annoying a-hole./Same with Italians.

RidersOfLohan:Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It's weird that the park and library would even know about this guy's atheism. What, did they do a background check on him or some shiat? How would they even know?

Have you ever known an atheist who didn't tell anyone and everyone, at every single chance that they are an atheist? It's like people who can't pass an opportunity to say "I'm italian"

I don't, but then up in Canada most people don't need to know your religious and political affiliations before having a conversation with someone.

I'm an atheist that volunteers at my local food bank every Thursday so I'm getting a kick...

Granted I'm not giving them money but I am giving them my time. Please do justify how I am doing wrong and that you should take that away from those that I've have helped in some way because that's what this fiasco is doing; not allowing me to help people because of my non-beliefs.

Popular Opinion:Pitabred: Popular Opinion: Ed Grubermann: Popular Opinion: if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

So, there are no Christians. Nice to know we've got that settled.

i think there have been a few. i don't qualify, obviously.

Jesus, if he existed, might have been a Christian. But then again, he wailed on some money changer ass with some definite hate, so I'm pretty sure even he's out of the running...

frustration and embarrassment is not hate. jmohe was embarrassed that faith had been exploited by greed.and frustrated that this was generally accepted.i can't say i would have acted differently, especially if i was the son of the big guy,

gawd, i wish god was real just to see what kind of whoop ass JC would put on jerry falwell and jesse jackson.

Pitabred:Popular Opinion: Ed Grubermann: Popular Opinion: if you hate anyone, you are not christian,

So, there are no Christians. Nice to know we've got that settled.

i think there have been a few. i don't qualify, obviously.

Jesus, if he existed, might have been a Christian. But then again, he wailed on some money changer ass with some definite hate, so I'm pretty sure even he's out of the running...

frustration and embarrassment is not hate. jmohe was embarrassed that faith had been exploited by greed.and frustrated that this was generally accepted.i can't say i would have acted differently, especially if i was the son of the big guy,

hey, at least you have an opinion and basis for it, but as for history, it is just that.

the church lady next door didn't lead the evil crusades (which was all about power and money, and nothing to do with the teaching in the new testament (what i think is supposed to be christianity).

be happy knowing these hypocrites will burn in hell, if there is one. ;o)

when i say "fark atheist", i don't mean anyone on fark who doesn't believe in any god.i mean the type that attack anyone that has faith in something..

No, the church lady next door was just lied to by her priest about creationism and science, told that atheists are devil worshipers, that gays are abominations, that Republicans are all Christians and that Obama is a Muslim, and took all that "information" to the voting booth.

JohnnyC:Popular Opinion: JohnnyC: Christians... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

what would you know about it johnny? tell me why you think you know.

there is a big difference between not believing in something and bashing people that do believe.this intolerance is why real atheists want to distance themselves with your typical fark atheist.

First, look at history. Look at what Christians have done to people throughout history. Such as how they treated the native americans who didn't convert here in the States. Heck, look at what they've even done to each other (one sect vs another sect). I've personally witnessed Christians treating non-Christians horribly throughout my entire life. I've been physically attacked because I didn't say the "under god" portion of the pledge of allegiance and a christian happened to notice. My in-laws refused to come to my wife and I's wedding because we didn't have a Christian wedding in a church. My mother in law wouldn't even really speak to me for the first 5 years I was married to my wife. I saw a fellow coworker get hassled perpetually because the Christians who worked there found out he was an atheist until eventually they sabotaged his work and got him fired because he wasn't willing to convert. The only reason I didn't get the same treatment was because I avoided any discussion about religion like the plague and I still caught some flack from them because I wasn't very forthcoming about my religious (or lack thereof) views on things. I've had friends become Christians and then spend all their time trying to convince me that I'm going to burn in a pit of fire and be tortured for eternity unless I join their club because they knew I was an atheist... and the list goes on.

I'm tolerant of others. I don't give a shiat what religion you believe or don't believe. But the moment a religious group starts trying to affect my life, starts treating me or other p ...

hey, at least you have an opinion and basis for it, but as for history, it is just that.

the church lady next door didn't lead the evil crusades (which was all about power and money, and nothing to do with the teaching in the new testament (what i think is supposed to be christianity).

be happy knowing these hypocrites will burn in hell, if there is one. ;o)

when i say "fark atheist", i don't mean anyone on fark who doesn't believe in any god.i mean the type that attack anyone that has faith in something..

JohnnyC:I've had friends become Christians and then spend all their time trying to convince me that I'm going to burn in a pit of fire and be tortured for eternity unless I join their club because they knew I was an atheist...

There's something very weird about Born-Agains of all stripes. Not just Christian, that's just the most common here in America, and not just religion. People get religious about their new car, their choice in programming languages (even brace placement), their music tastes, and their doomsday fears (global warming? second coming? police state?); but turn them into a born-again for something else and suddenly they're rabidly trying to convert everyone else to their new-found salvation. It's more than a little obvious that it's an easy way to look down on everyone else, too.

hardinparamedic:Even today I still get crap from the religious because I "believe different". Including being told I should be fired for being an atheist because I didn't actively participate in a prayer during a memorial ceremony earlier this year by someone I work with.

Wow.

It might be time to move to a different part of the county, IMHO. I live in a semi-rural part of Oregon and although we do have Tea-Party types and Rednecks around here, genuine Bible-Thumpers seem to be few in number. I've never seen religious bigotry at my workplace; most of my co-workers seem to be Good-aligned ( in D&D terms )

CowardlyLion:JohnnyC: Christians(Nearly?) every powerful, conservative group or organization in the history of mankind... if you're not one of them, you're their enemy. They have a very long history proving that... as hard as they can.

FTFY.

/if you don't believe in somebody else's mythology/fantasy and it basically doesn't affect your life in any way, why waste the time and effort thinking on it in the first place?

I wish I could ignore it. Unfortunately, Christians and "conservatives" in this country try to force it on the rest of us, getting us into this predicament.

Gyrfalcon:So, how do you fail to "actively participate," assuming you weren't standing ostentatiously in the front of the room glaring at everyone while they were kneeling in prayer? And how did they know otherwise? This always mystifies me, because as a nondenominational agnostic, I occasionally get forced into Catholic church (for my nephews' confirmations, etc.) and I do not participate in their arcane rites; but I don't do it in an obvious way; I just sit quietly in the pew while they kneel, stand, pray, etc.

So unless you're aggressively mocking the preacher during services, how do these mooks know you're not "actively participating"? Are you supposed to fall down and begin speaking in tongues?

Apparently, not closing your eyes and just remaining silent is a horrible disrespect to the dead.