Then a new king, who did not know about Joseph, came to power in Egypt. “Look,” he said to his people, “the Israelites have become much too numerous for us. Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country.” So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh. But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites and worked them ruthlessly. They made their lives bitter with hard labor in brick and mortar and with all kinds of work in the fields; in all their hard labor the Egyptians used them ruthlessly.

Much of Exodus appears to reflect the history of a semitic people, the Hyksos, who migrated into Egypt for work. Were welcomed by the Egyptians, became succesful and later angered the Egyptians enough that they made war on us and expelled us from Egypt.

And yes, we did work for Egyptian nobles who presumably profited from our labor.

So Goldy has made a brilliant .. and very Jewish .. point about how the Bible, a book YOU claim came from your God, says Jews should be tolerant of foreigners.

Puddy posted for Michael’s enjoyment how leftist pinheads abuse illegal aliens to make a buck or two. It’s anyone who wants to use cheap labor. Puddy has posted example after example of leftist pinheads like you (except they have corporations and make money from jobs) who hire illegals. Of course these facts are lost on a dumb brick such as you.

Yep Puddy owns some bricks and they are as dumb as you ylb arschloch.

Now who just got OWNED again? Your stupid brick self ylb arschloch. He keeps posting and we see how dumb the brick is.

“…a ghostly double of a living person that haunts its living counterpart.”

Your misuse of the word doppelganger is telling in that it exhibits your inability to correctly evaluate a situation. Headless uses aliases — not doppelgangers. If Headless were a doppelganger it would still be called Headless.

So Goldy has made a brilliant .. and very Jewish .. point about how the Bible, a book YOU claim came from your God, says Jews should be tolerant of foreigners.

SeattleJew… Israel had illegal immigration? You mean where they specifically had gentiles mix in and intermarry with their peeps? How do you explain the Gibeonites?

So where on this blog has Puddy ever dissed legal immigration? Ask the arschloch for the reference. He can help you with his personal HA Libtardo backup at home. He’ll be more responsive than Goldy. Go on ask him. Be the first one ever.

Puddy calls each of those post headless like Puddy did just now. ASK THE ARSCHLOCH! He has every Puddy post on his personal copy of full Goldy HA Libtardos blog he updates every day in his “home”. That’s why Puddy uses the term DOPPELGANGER! Puddy uses headless is in every of my posts, headless!

Spotted your from the stench you send forth. Been nailing your kind to the wall since Sept 9, 2005. Do you finally get it doppelganger? No matter how many names you use Sept 9, 2005 will always follow you around fool!

Self-proclaimed “psychic” Sean David Morton, who runs a “nonprofit” called “Prophecy Research Institute,” has been charged with securities fraud by the SEC, according to ABC News.

The SEC charged that Morton, who claimed an ability to make stock market predicts, diverted money his investment firm received from investors to the nonprofit. Morton’s wife, who ran the nonprofit, also has been charged with fraud and violation of securities laws.

Yeah. It’s especially a disaster for Morton, who’s headed for jail. My guess is he’ll cop a plea to do prison time in order to keep his missus out of the slammer.

One of the people who helped Morton promote himself was talk-show host Art Bell, who has an interesting political profile. According to Wikipedia, Bell “is a member of the U.S. Libertarian Party” who supports gun rights and same-sex marriage, rejects 9/11 conspiracy theories, posted an image stating “God Bless George W. Bush and the U.S.A.” on his website after the September 11 attacks, and “has expressed both conservative and liberal views on the air … Bell has shown support for immigration reform, decriminalizing marijuana, and has advocated to stop global warming … stated that he opposes abortion, believes the U.S. should finish the job in the war in Iraq, and supports a free market economy.” In short, like the Pentagon shooter, he has an eclectic mix of views that defy typical right-left stereotypes but his free-market ideology and self-identification as a libertarian” define him as a rightwinger. Therefore, it’s not surprising he promoted a guy who used the Bible to steal from people.

Although the news coverage of this case doesn’t identify the investors, my guess is they’re Bible-thumping fundies with conservative political opinions. Who else would be attracted to someone like Morton, or gulled by someone like Bell? While the religious right is crawling with sticky-fingered charlatans, it’s at least amusing to realize they mostly steal from people who think just like them. After all, educated liberals don’t fall for this shit, or hang out with this crowd. Righties stealing from each other — ya gotta laugh!

In short, like the Pentagon shooter, he has an eclectic mix of views that defy typical right-left stereotypes but his drug ideology and self-identification as a eco-freak and gay marriage defender define him as a libtardo.

In fact, a pretty definite pattern since the generalized collapse of America in the wake of the Bush regime. The righties who voted for, shilled for, and supported Bush are now putting as much distance between themselves and his discredited administration as they can! You see, they were libertarians all along, and claim to never have supported his reckless spending, his big-government policies, his runaway deficits, or disastrous economic policies — if only he had done things the libertarian way, none of this would have happened. Hell, they’re not even “Republicans” and never were, they’re “Libertarians.” Well, if you ask me, a cheap labor conservative is a cheap labor conservative, no matter what label he slaps on himself, and aside from their obvious lying (if they didn’t elect Bush, who did? Martians?), they all look the same to me.

Here’s an idea. Let’s ship all the Mexicans back to their country and fence them out, attract the millions of unemployed Americans to those farm labor jobs by paying them $25 an hour plus benefits, and paying four times as much for our food.

@4 Uh yeah, right, you scoured the whole fucking country and came up with two chicken farmers who voted for Obama. Great work, putz! What are you gonna tell us next, that all the farmers who employ these millions of illegals at cheap wages are Democrats? Uh-huh … I don’t know how you manage it, but somehow you get more ridiculous every day.

@7 I’m not so sure they’re as ignorant as they pretend to be, and you’re probably underestimating how mean-spirited they are. But not to worry, the Great Mother Rabbit Spirit assured me in a dream there is indeed a God, there really is a Hell, and they really are going there.

On another note, I really appreciate all the abuse you little nazis heap on me. I consider it a badge of honor, a recognition of my work here, and proof positive that I’m getting to you gasthaus bastards. Good! I’m doing God’s work by exposing you vermin for what you are.

Immigrants made our country great. They built it. Now some argue they “take” jobs away from native citizens, jobs such as hanging sheet rock, landscaping, and cleaning toilets in high rise offices at night. How many of you good folks want to do these tasks?

Most of use are too busy trying to hit the lottery, engaging in fruitless day trading, memorizing a blackjack counting system, or trying to build our Amway distributorship to actually produce anything that resembles real economic output.

If we terminated our insane high dollar currency policy, actually encouraged unions, legalized marijuana, and ended our agricultural subsidies, the only Mexicans you’d see would be tourists crossing the border to watch cheap (in terms of pesos) entertainment at Sea World and buy a few trinkets at art “colonies” in places like Taos.

Would that be the end of the world? Hardly. I recall vividly when everybody was panicked that the Japanese were going to buy everything in the US and “own” us. How’d that work out?

Again this breathing asshole just doesn’t get it. Puddy uses examples of illegal aliens being used by DUMMOCRAPTICs specifically to identify the feckless arguments on your side. Puddy ain’t disagreeing with conservatives using illegals. Puddy has identified on this blog over and over and over how cheap labor DUMMOCRAPTICS use illegals just as much. You have Puddy’s examples ylb arschloch, they exist right in your full GOldy HA Libtardo personal blog backup. Use it and review all the examples Puddy has placed over the years.

THE DUMB BUNNY has an excuse for being moronic from the lack of oxygen getting to his “rabbit” brain becuz of his smoking habit. You on the other hand were born a dumb brick and you demonstrate it each time you post fool!

I want to take this opportunity to thank puddy for his input. The smug self-righeousness and rampant hypocrisy so common among Christians is exactly the reason I quit being a Christian in the first place. Puddy helpfully reminds me why that was the right decision.

The bible passage seems to be about being tolerant of foreigners because we all were foreigners once. It doesn’t fit with the actions of a lot of so called Christians. — And I’m not for illegal aliens working here. If they couldn’t get jobs, 95% wouldn’t be here. Punish the employers, and the jobs will dry up and they will leave or not come here.

@42: legal,schmegal. this land was taken from the native americans and the mexicans using copious amounts of fraud, theft, and brutal force. We imported africans in chains because we had a “labor shortage”.

don’t fucking lecture me about “legal”. the concept has no meaning for you, because you firmly believe the ends justifies the means (torture “debate” which see).

why else do you waste so much time casting stones at other members of your tribe who share most of your basic premises but are only slightly less bloodthirsty than you are?

@41 “Again this breathing asshole just doesn’t get it. Puddy uses examples of illegal aliens being used by DUMMOCRAPTICs specifically to identify the feckless arguments on your side.”

Right. Given that 99% of the people employing illegal aliens are rightwing farmers and businessmen (see, e.g., slaughterhouses), you assert the other 1% proves our arguments are “feckless”? The usual terminology for this kind of reasoning is “disingenuous.” It’s somewhat like saying a disease that kills 99% of its victims isn’t bad because 1% survive.

@44 please don’t use the term “Christians” when discussing biblethumpers, it’s the last thing they are. Their beliefs are loosely based on Old Testament stories and what their particular minister has cooked up. Jesus and his teachings aren’t welcome in their mega-churches.

@41 “Again this breathing asshole just doesn’t get it. Puddy uses examples of illegal aliens being used by DUMMOCRAPTICs specifically to identify the feckless arguments on your side.”

Right. Given that 99% of the people employing illegal aliens are rightwing farmers and businessmen (see, e.g., slaughterhouses), you assert the other 1% proves our arguments are “feckless”? The usual terminology for this kind of reasoning is “disingenuous.” It’s somewhat like saying a disease that kills 99% of its victims isn’t bad because 1% survive. The cheap labor conservatives who employ millions of illegals are a national disease.

What’s really going on here is conservatives want the illegals’ cheap labor to enrich themselves and don’t want to pay a penny of taxes to provide them with health care, schools for their children, or anything else.

Cheap labor conservatives aren’t complicated. They’re easy to understand. They’re selfish money-grubbing bastards who exploit and immiserate other human beings for their own material gain without a pang of conscience.

Puddy is shocked at your attitude. If Puddy can’t identify the beam in your eye after you identified the stick in my eye first where’s the “fun”.

It’s the atheistic smug and self-righteous progressive libtardos who claim they are so compassionate to their fellow man; with other peeps money of course. You seem to forget who opens their wallet more and actually help their fellow man with their own money rob; Christians. Yet when Puddy places example after example of the progressive feckelessness, you get your pink lace panties all twisted around your scrote. Why?

Some illegals do heinous crimes so all are bad. By that logic, since some white straight males commit heinious crimes, then all of them are bad.

Illegals use up important recources. They are only here because of the jobs. If they couldn’t get jobs, 95% wouldn’t be here. Punish the employers, and the jobs will dry up and they will leave or not come here. Why doesn’t puddy rail against employers?

If you bothered to read the article on Pelosi, it doesn’t actually say she hired illegals, in fact it says she’s hard of them. Regardless, puddy argues that since a prominent democrat may have hired an illegal, then anyone else can hire illegals with immunity.

The link about illegal voting is about a politician who was quoted out of context. She said “You don’t need papers for voting.(pause) You don’t need to be a registered voter to help (the campaign).” She corrected herself but you don’t care. you just play gotcha. Do you have any numbers on the amount of illegals who did vote?

Last, puddy then goes on to interpret the bible, parsing the words so the command to be tolerant of foreigners doesn’t apply TO HIM. Once again, conservatives pick and choose what bible passages they choose to follow.

If the illegal aliens were booted out, Edwin Ramos, now 21 would not have killed Tony Bologna, 48, and his sons Michael, 20, and Matthew, 16. If the San Francisco libtardos followed federal law Mrs Bologna would have her family together.

Right. Given that 99% of the people employing illegal aliens are rightwing farmers and businessmen (see, e.g., slaughterhouses), you assert the other 1% proves our arguments are “feckless”? The usual terminology for this kind of reasoning is “disingenuous.” It’s somewhat like saying a disease that kills 99% of its victims isn’t bad because 1% survive. The cheap labor conservatives who employ millions of illegals are a national disease.

Another in the long line of THE DUMB BUNNY BULLSHITTIUM COMMENTS.

Puddy still waiting for you to produce your racists percentages you claimed last week. You should have been able to find somewhere on some lefttard whackamole kook-aid site how many racists hate Odumba. You claimed 50% of those who disagree with Odumba are racists. Now you claim 99% of of illegal employers are conservatives.

PROVE IT THE DUMB BUNNY!

Another of your BULLSHITTIUM DUMB BUNNY Pellets not passing the smell test.

If you bothered to read the article on Pelosi, it doesn’t actually say she hired illegals, in fact it says she’s hard of them. Regardless, puddy argues that since a prominent democrat may have hired an illegal, then anyone else can hire illegals with immunity.

Blue John, that’s in the long line of articles Puddy has placed here regarding Pelosi and her illegal hiring practices in her vineyards. Did you forget the others? Contact the arschloch. He has them all in his personal backup of HA Libtardos.

So Goldy has made a brilliant .. and very Jewish .. point about how the Bible, a book YOU claim came from your God, says Jews should be tolerant of foreigners.

SeattleJew… Israel had illegal immigration? You mean where they specifically had gentiles mix in and intermarry with their peeps? How do you explain the Gibeonites?

So where on this blog has Puddy ever dissed legal immigration? Ask the arschloch for the reference. He can help you with his personal HA Libtardo backup at home. He’ll be more responsive than Goldy. Go on ask him. Be the first one ever.

The link about illegal voting is about a politician who was quoted out of context. She said “You don’t need papers for voting.(pause) You don’t need to be a registered voter to help (the campaign).” She corrected herself but you don’t care. you just play gotcha. Do you have any numbers on the amount of illegals who did vote?

More BULLSHITTIUM Blue John. Listen to the original audio where her words are actually recorded at the event. It wasn’t until after she was told illegals can’t vote did she say Oopsie! Facts and Blue John are polar opposites.

So when a conservative misspeaks you’ll give him/her a pass next time. Puddy will remember and check on your next feckless comment and hold you to it!

@68 You’re the BULLSHITTER, putz. You and your fellow Republicans. When you creeps were lobbying for your latest version of poll taxes and literacy tests to keep poor people, the elderly, and minorities from exercising their legal voting rights, you asswipes couldn’t come up with one single case anywhere in the country of an illegal alien or a felon voting under someone else’s name. Not one! What you pricks are all about is keeping American citizens from voting in their own country. You even support a party whose operatives employed underhanded subterfuges to keep black soldiers serving in combat zones from voting.

State employees do receive benefits that are richer than those earned by many other workers. But an analysis of statewide wage data by The Seattle Times shows that claims about state workers earning higher pay than others are in many cases incorrect or oversimplified.

Out of nearly 200 standard occupational categories analyzed by The Times, representing most of the 149,000 or so state employees, median pay last year was higher for state workers than for all other workers in only 74 categories. (Median means half earn more, half less.)

Ask the arschloch what Puddy said about this when it was first brought up fool! Puddy sees you are getting more senile as the days pass. Go on ask the arschloch to post from his full personal Goldy HA Libtardo backup.

You’ll be surprised. Go on THE DUMB BUNNY grow some marbuls. No one will ask the arschloch!

@75 So throw all the illegals out. What are you waiting for? Bush’s permission? You waited a long time for that and never got it. Don’t you get that the cheap labor conservatives want those people here? It isn’t the liberals who brought them here or employed them.

Make them legal THE DUMB BUNNY. If that law was enforced in SF, Mrs. Bologna would have her family intact. Imagine if THE DUMB BUNNY and two younger DUMB BUNNYS were offed by an illegal because you cut him off on a narrow street. How would MRS DUMB BUNNY feel?

Facts don’t change with time, putz, and unfortunately for you and your ilk there’s no statute of limitations on treason.

“The Republican National Committee has a special offer for African-American soldiers: Go to Baghdad, lose your vote.

“A confidential campaign directed by GOP party chiefs in October 2004 sought to challenge the ballots of tens of thousands of voters … cast by residents of Black-majority precincts.

“Files from the secret vote-blocking campaign were obtained by BBC Television Newsnight, London. They were attached to emails accidentally sent by Republican operatives to a non-party website.

“One group of voters wrongly identified by the Republicans as registering to vote from false addresses: servicemen and women sent overseas.

“Here’s how the scheme worked: The RNC mailed these voters letters in envelopes marked, ‘Do not forward’, to be returned to the sender. These letters were mailed to servicemen and women, some stationed overseas, to their US home addresses. The letters then returned to the Bush-Cheney campaign as ‘undeliverable.’ The lists of soldiers of ‘undeliverable’ letters were transmitted from state headquarters … to the RNC in Washington. The party could then challenge the voters’ registration and thereby prevent their absentee ballots being counted.

“The BBC obtained several dozen confidential emails sent by the Republican’s national Research Director and Deputy Communications chief, Tim Griffin to GOP Florida campaign chairman Brett Doster and other party leaders. Attached were spreadsheets marked, ‘Caging.xls.’ Each of these contained several hundred to a few thousand voters and their addresses. A check of the demographics of the addresses on the ‘caging lists,’ as the GOP leaders called them indicated that most were in African-American majority zip codes.

“Ion Sanco, the non-partisan elections supervisor of Leon County (Tallahassee) when shown the lists by this reporter said: ‘The only thing I can think of – African American voters listed like this – these might be individuals that will be challenged if they attempted to vote on Election Day.’ …

“The Republican National Committee in Washington refused our several requests to respond to the BBC discovery. … The party has refused to say why it would mark soldiers as having ‘bad addresses’ subject to challenge when they had been assigned abroad. … Setting up such a challenge list would be a crime under federal law. … While the party insisted the lists were not created for the purpose to challenge Black voters, the GOP ultimately offered no other explanation for the mailings. …

“Soldiers sending in their ballot from abroad would not know their vote was lost because of a challenge.”

Roger Rabbit Commentary: What kind of slime suckers would take advantage of soldiers’ deployment to a combat zone to deprive them of their vote? Troop-hating Republican traitors, that’s who. We should put these meatballs on trial and lock them up in federal prisons for violating the Civil Rights Act. Better yet, shoot ’em without trial.*

That scumbag Tim Griffin is currently running in Arkansas for a seat in Congress being vacated by a retiring Democrat. The DNC should do mass mailings in that district to remind voters of what this traitor did to our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh, so now you’re showing your true colors. You want their cheap labor after all! If you want them to stay, and work cheap, what difference does it make whether they’re “legal” or not? Is this a make-work program for federal bureaucrats?

Puddy just got his ass kicked again. It’s easy to do. All you need to do is catch him in one of his contradictions, and that’s simplicity itself, because all of his arguments are contradictory. The only problem is he doesn’t know when he’s lost the argument, nor does he realize that he looks like a fool.

Once again THE DUMB BUNNY realizing his argument is useless, does a sick “bunny hop” with his oxygen tank and claims victory. Unfortunately for THE DUMB BUNNY he’s retreading over previously discussed materials. THE DUMB BUNNY isn’t interested in what Puddy previously said regarding the 2004 actions, THE DUMB BUNNY wants to place his screed on HA Libtardos polluting another thread full of his smelly Pellets.

Notice how THE DUMB BUNNY gets all frosted up when THE DUMB BUNNY is told to produce facts for his stupid hypotheses? Have you seen any facts appear?

Have y’all notice THE DUMB BUNNY has nothing to say about the plight of Mrs Bologna! Now why is that? Now THE DUMB BUNNY claims THE DUMB BUNNY has “errands to run.” THE DUMB BUNNY could have answered the question.

Just as, at Seder with us, you read that Hashem reproved the angels for cheering at the death of the Egyptians.

As for the Gibeonites, that is in YOUR, CHRISTIAN bible .. not in the Torah. I have told you many times, we Jews understand that we make mistakes. Your people, the Christians, enslaved others, burned them, tortured them. Learn.

“The American-born spokesman for al-Qaida has been arrested … a government official said Sunday …. The arrest of Adam Gadahn represents a major victory in the U.S.-led battle against al-Qaida …. It follows the recent detentions of several Afghan Taliban commanders … including the movement’s No. 2 commander.”

Golly THE DUMB BUNNY, you’re only 32 minutes late, after Gman and Puddy. Well everyone knows you have to see your smelly pellets in pixels. He grew up on a goat farm, which makes him a “spokesman” for the HA libtardo side!

FWIW, El and Shaddai were deities in Canaan before my ancestors picked on then unnamed one as our God and long before we decided that there weren’t any other Gods. Referring to God by the name of some other seity .. Shaddai, El, Baal. or Jesus is blaspehemy. The punishment in your Bible is stoning.

“A top House Democrat said Sunday he believes Congress will pass a health care bill, but three fellow Democrats who opposed overhaul legislation last fall aren’t committing ….

“Central to success is persuading some of the House members who voted against the original legislation to go along with the Senate bill. Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., who heads the House Democrats’ campaign team, said … ‘I believe it will pass … the trend is in the right direction because people see that the status quo is absolutely broken.'”

“Three House Democrats who voted against the bill appeared open to considering changing their votes ….”

The three are Reps. Jason Altmire of Pennsylvania, John Adler of New Jersey, and Brian Baird of Washington.

Altmire summed up the situation: “I have to make a decision between passing this bill … or doing nothing.” Adler wants a bill that helps businesses cope with rising insurance rates and creates jobs, and thinks more needs to be done in terms of “fixing the underlying system.” Baird cited the bill’s complexity and “hodgepodge” of programs, saying, “That worries a lot of people and, frankly, it troubles me.”

Roger Rabbit Commentary: Altmire captured the essence of what’s going on in the minds of House members when he pointed out that health care reform now boils down to adopting the Senate bill through the reconciliation process and then tweaking it, or going home to their constituents empty-handed. And they know polls show three-quarters of Americans support health care reform, so letting it die on the vine isn’t a very politically viable option.

The GOP gambled on inflicting a political defeat on the Democrats by stonewalling reform. By doing that, they gave up any say in drafting the legislation. It is they who forced the Democrats into an all-or-nothing posture; and if this flawed process produces a chewing-gum-and-baling-wire law, the blame for its shortcomings will be wholly theirs.

You sure fooled me, because you don’t behave like a practicing Christian. You seem more like someone who is demon-possessed. Well, I’m happy for you, putz. If it’s true, as they claim, that you can be forgiven for anything — even voting Republican — then I certainly understand why you would grasp for it. Forever is a long time to burn, know what I mean? If it works out for you, I just hope that I don’t run into you in the Hereafter. I’ve always assumed that if I did, it would mean that I had been sent to Hell.

You sure fooled me, because you don’t behave like a practicing Christian.

Oh you mean turn the other cheek? So progressives can run over Puddy? Puddy turned the other cheek living in Philly. Lot of good it did for inner city peeps while progressives took us for granted. Puddy is meek on the things needed, and Puddy stands up to fools like THE DUMB BUNNY. Unfortunately, many of my peeps still drink the progressive kook-aid. Puddy saw past the useless rhetoric of nothing getting done.

1 “Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a malicious witness. 2 “Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd, 3 and do not show favoritism to a poor man in his lawsuit.

4 “If you come across your enemy’s ox or donkey wandering off, be sure to take it back to him. 5 If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; be sure you help him with it.

6 “Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits. 7 Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty.

8 “Do not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds those who see and twists the words of the righteous.

9 “Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt.

you don’t seem aware of the real situation. from FT: “Democrats do not have a firm grip on the votes needed to pass sweeping healthcare reform legislation in the House of Representatives, one House leader admitted on Sunday. But the White House insisted that its reform efforts were “in the final chapter”.

Barack Obama has given Democrats a March 18 deadline for the House to pass the Senate version of a healthcare reform bill before he leaves on a trip to Asia, leading to a frenzy of arm-twisting and vote tallying on Capitol Hill.

EDITOR’S CHOICE In depth: US healthcare reform – Jan-20Video: Tom Daschle on US health reform – Mar-07Clive Crook: Good for America, as far as it went – Mar-07Spotlight falls on insurers in health offensive – Mar-05Editorial: Obama’s gamble on healthcare – Mar-04Obama endorses ‘up or down’ health vote – Mar-04With previous deadlines missed, veteran Democrats are warning that the legislation must be completed before the Easter recess to avoid a repeat of last summer’s “town hall” protests that almost sunk the healthcare bill.

“I believe it will pass. Do we have a mortal lock? No. Because people are still looking at some of the changes that are being made,” Chris Van Hollen, one of the Democratic leaders in the House, admitted on CNN on Sunday.”

What three quarters of Americans want wouldn’t matter to the 12 antichoice Demcrats with Stupak whose votes are needed to pass the Senate bill; but they won’t because of the politics of their own districts. read Jay Cost at realclear, these are from Southern or rural PA type districts and presumably their Democrat abut antichoice position reflects that of their constituents. so voting both for health care and for abortion (if they vote for the senate bill) likley means they’d lose their seats. So working backwards from that…..this is how you look at it dude, not want Americans in general want, and not what’s right, certainly….anyhoo that means they won’t vote for it, cuz they don’t want to lose their seats.

Any logical flaws so far? Thought not.

So the reality is right now, it ain’t gonna pass. And believe me I’d like it to. But wishes, horses, ass, assume, etc. etc.

Bottom line: stop assuming it will pass just because it’s a good idea or many people like it. Start learning how to count votes.

You know, the way an LBJ would….you need an MLK AND and LBJ, right? The House is shaping up to be a key battlefield in the healthcare fight, since Democrats lost their 60-seat super-majority in the Senate.

With not a single Republican supporting the reform effort, the only option for Democrats now is to have the House pass the Senate version of the bill, then for both chambers to pass a series of fixes to take into consideration the demands of House lawmakers.

But Democratic leaders in the House are struggling to get the 216 votes they need to pass the Senate bill. As many as 12 conservative Democrats who voted in favour of the House bill because it included tough new restrictions on abortion funding are now threatening to vote against the Senate version, which is less restrictive. The House bill passed by 220 to 215 so Democrats have few votes to spare.

@133 “Any logical flaws so far? Thought not. So the reality is right now, it ain’t gonna pass.”

If you ask questions like that, you shouldn’t answer them yourself. And throwing in the “assume” bit is a really bad idea, especially when you’re wrong.

Let’s skip over the fact you need an editor to help you write your posts and go to the logical flaws.

First, the “reality right now” is a sideshow; the “reality” that matters is when the vote is taken. Second, the wavering Democratic congressmen are faced with a “yes” or “no” vote. There won’t be another bill, or another chance. They know it has taken decades to get to this vote, and if the bill fails, the American people are stuck with the dysfunctional system we have now for the foreseeable future. The vote will be close, maybe even coming down to one vote, and if it loses because of the vote of one Democratic congressman, he will go down in history as the person who killed health care reform for a generation. Every one of these congressmen will think about that. This is bigger than home district politics, or even re-election, this is the most important vote any of them will ever cast, and will define their place in history.

It’s too bad that it had to happen this way. This should have been a bipartisan effort with an ample margin of votes in both houses. The GOP didn’t want to play it that way, and by playing politics with the most important domestic issue of our time, they’re assured of the disdain of future generations.

“A Republican donor ‘ashamed’ of a recent controversial GOP fund-raising presentation says that he ‘will no longer contribute’ to any organized Party effort ….”

Mark DeMoss, who heads a Christian public relations firm, blasted an RNC fundraising appeal that “encouraged using ‘fear’ to solicit contributions, depicted President Obama as Batman villain the Joker, and also caricatured House Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid,” calling it “shameful, immature and uncivil.”

But it’s good that people like DeMoss are beginning to demand responsible behavior from the GOP, which has increasingly come to resemble a drunken frat house party spinning out of control. It’s time for the cops to show up.

Cynny @ 129: ““Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits.”

In Cynny’s disconnected mind, however, tort reform–denying access to the courts for the poor and injured–is okay. Why? Because he is first and foremost not a Christian, but a wretchedly rightwing polemic.

@135 “The calls to charity, the Golden Rule … and the general call to behave well to others are personal responsibilities, not government ones.”

Bullshit. That’s your personal opinion, not a restraint on governmental power. The rest of us don’t have to depend on the good intentions of the Ken Lays and Jeff Skillings of the world, and as progressives we choose not to leave good behavior to their discretion. The government absolutely does have the right to regulate your behavior when it affects others. That’s the very purpose of government at its most fundamental level. As progressives, we believe in public education and other public services, and we choose not to let people starve or go without basic necessities in this country. When you win elections, you get to make policy. When we win elections and make policies, you have to pay the same taxes and comply with the same laws as everyone else; you’re not exempt.

@135 (continued) Progressives have never advertised their policy proposals as “Christian,” although some of us do point out our belief that the policies we propose are more in keeping with true Christian principles and Jesus’ teachings than the core beliefs and policies of conservatives.

As for comparing progressives with Republicans in that respect, it’s a no-brainer. The warmongering, torture, lying, and corruption of the recent GOP regime are immeasurably distant from Christian principles. And if you voted Republican during the preceding 8 years, then so are you.

The Progressive Era in American history occurred in the early 20th century in response to the trusts and monopolies that existed to expropriate the earnings of farmers and workers. Our forebears could, and did, use government to break the power of plutocrats who got too big for their britches, and it’s getting time we did it again.

Depends on your frame of reference… If you remember Joseph was sold into Egypt many years before and he was an alien in the land. He made prime minister. You know the story after that in the last part of Genesis.

Why does that matter…? Puddy gave up long ago understanding what motivates you.

“Climate scientists have [published] … a new paper that says the case for man-made global warming is now ‘stronger than ever.’ An international team of scientists led by Britain’s … weather service … concluded that the possibility the world is warming because of natural variations in climate … is ‘increasingly remote.’ … ‘The science reveals a consistent picture of global change that clearly bears the fingerprint of man-made greenhouse gas emissions,’ said Peter Stott, head of climate monitoring at the Met Office Hadley Centre for climate research. … Stott says the … report isn’t an attempt to counter … [the] so-called Climategate scandals … [but] to refocus the public debate on the actual science of climate change, rather than claims made about individual scientists in the media. ‘I hope people will look at that evidence and make up their minds informed by the scientific evidence,’ he told the Guardian.”

Puddy @ 145 The whole of the Bible, whether Old or New Testament, is about being an alien in an alien land. Christ, following John the Baptist, was an alien, within his own people, within his own land. Whether Jew or Christian, we are wanderers. I don’t have any trouble with that. I have no need to see my particular brand of Christianity be the law of the land. Many of my pagan friends can’t figure out how I’ve held to the beliefs of my childhood, but they respect that I have. I do not understand how a professing Christian can advocate that the highest religious value in the land is cutting taxes, or executing people, or holding suspects in a foreign land and not providing them with either counsel or trials, or permitting people to carry firearms in public places, or demonizing people because of their sexual orientation, or . . . I could go on. Would you like me to?

The context was an HA attempt to discredit Christianity, a faith many on the left profess.

ALL I was saying is that progressives who claim (like some on this blog) that they have a monopoly on Christianity are pushing a limit.

But, since you try to push a limit too-

Yes, I can challenge within the court system a tax system which takes unfairly from those who produce to give to those who won’t. If the courts adjudicate against me I have 2 options. I can comply with tax code however unfair and out of step with original intent. Or I can engage in civil disobedience, accepting whatever legal consequences accrue.

Additionally some protection is given in the Constitution from tyranny of the majority. A compelling government interest has to be maintained, for one, prior to armed robbery from one class of citizen just because the majority votes for it.

You’re a retired attorney. Surely you know the world isn’t as starkly black and white as you profess.

If you claim to be an alien in an alien land, then why do you choose to support ideas and activities which make you a resident of the land? Do you actually think the Democratic platform of killing babies (Thou Shalt Not Kill) Gay marriage (Last week’s Goldy’s Bible verse), and other platform farces are what God/Jesus sees as The Way, The Truth, and The Life? How about walking the narrow path to righteousness vs. the broad way to destruction?

I don’t think the Bible speaks to taxes, except to say pay them if due. (Render unto Ceasar…)

I don’t think Christianity intrinsic to any public policy, except in how it informs ideals and convictions about them.

I will risk asserting that the core of Christianity is individual choice. Therefore any political attempt to force it on others through the state would be anathema in any case.

Of the items you mention the only one linked to Christianity would be homosexual issues and the death penalty. I happen to think the death penalty repugnant, unjust and poorly (if you’ll pardon the pun) executed in the main. But it is the law. As for homosexuals my reading of the teachings of Christ says we are to love all people. We can however privately disagree with the wisdom or health of the behavior.

I can’t remember how many times I’ve posted my personal opposition to abortion on this blog, nor can I begin to tally how many stupid and uninformed comments you’ve posted on HA. Basically, all of them.

@150 “ALL I was saying is that progressives who claim (like some on this blog) that they have a monopoly on Christianity are pushing a limit.”

I think it’s extremely difficult to defend many of the GOP’s recent policies on Christianity grounds. I don’t mean to put on airs — that’s not my style — but it’s hard for me to see Republicans as competitors with progressives on matters of simple human compassion.

“Yes, I can challenge within the court system a tax system which takes unfairly from those who produce to give to those who won’t.”

Sure, anyone can file a lawsuit, and my brethren of the bar will be happy to take your money to represent you.

“If the courts adjudicate against me I have 2 options. I can comply with tax code however unfair and out of step with original intent.”

Excuse me, but if the courts uphold the validity of a tax law, there are no attached qualifications; and your gratuitous value judgments do not mean squat.

Oh, don’t worry, the IRS doesn’t want the expense of feeding you. They only want the money you owe the government. I once met a commercial fisherman who did what you suggest — after the IRS got through with him. They were renting his former fishing boat to him, so he could make money, in order to pay them. They were renting his former house to him, too, so his family had a place to live. They confiscated all of his earnings except for $128 a week as a living allowance for himself, his wife, and their two children. This was in the early 1980s when 128 bucks went a little farther than it does now — but not that much farther.

Excellent, let us contrast lost with Puddy. lost says we pay our taxes because that is what the government tells us to do, I’m not sure what Puddy says. lost says capital punishment is wrong, Puddy cites Old Testament in favor. lost says we are to love everyone, even if gay, Puddy says otherwise. Then, lost says, “I will risk asserting that the core of Christianity is individual choice. Therefore any political attempt to force it on others through the state would be anathema in any case.” We will differ on abortion. Did you know that miscarriages, even in the Old Testament, are addressed as simply something that happened–no funeral, no rending of garments or gnashing of teeth? We can differ about when life begins. I don’t think scraping cells off the womb is near as murderous as lethal injection.

Mostly, I start thinking, after lost’s comments, where do this guy and I disagree? My dad the Lutheran minister, as Cynny often reminds us, always taught that state-enforced religion takes the heart out of religion. If people don’t like their government and their government is associated with some particular type of religion, guess what happens?

I don’t mind if someone challenges tax laws (or other laws) in courts. In fact, I encourage it. That’s what courts are for. I wouldn’t do it myself because litigation costs so much. If it’s a simple issue you might get away with paying around $25,000 to take it through the trial level, but I think to fight a tax issue to the highest level of appeal available, you’re probably looking at a six-figure legal bill, if not seven, so as a practical matter you need to have some serious skin in the game to make it worthwhile. And a lawyer worth his fees wouldn’t encourage you to spend that kind of money unless he thought you had a viable argument with a better-than-even chance of prevailing. Most of us let other people pay the litigation bills and just look up the rulings that have already been made on the tax topic we’re interested in, and go with that.

As far as “civil disobedience” goes, there are quite a few disadvantages to being a convicted felon, especially in the business world. You might want to review those before volunteering to be a convicted felon. As a lawyer, I’m just sayin’ …

It all turns on whether you look to a long or short term conception of compassion. Good social policy with an independent and competent citizenry as a goal is compassionate. It just means making tough decisions in the short run for good results in the longer term.

Some democrats are corrupt and venal. So are some republicans. That’s politics, not party.

@155 I would guess that less than a third of all babies survived the first six months after birth in Old Testament days. I couldn’t begin to guess whether the miscarriage rate was higher; it might have been lower, because they didn’t live in an environment full of toxic chemical shit like we do now.

I find it positively weird that people who vehemently oppose any and all government intrusion into their lives want government-run religion in our country.

@157 “Compassionate” is not a complicated concept, nor is it a qualified one.

My view on the subject is simple. I prefer 20th century government-sponsored compassion over 19th century private charity. There is no excuse for starvation or denial of essential medical care in any civilized society. Whether an unemployed person eats should not depend on a stranger’s discretionary generosity. There are certain things we, as a society, should provide to our fellow citizens as needed. We can afford to do so.

Case study: The Vietnam War was fought with conscripts (and volunteers paid conscript wages). The military pay was so low that many of the men who were drafted to fight in Vietnam had families back home who qualified for, and needed, food stamps. It is my view that under no circumstances should those families have been forced to depend on private food banks or other private charity for food. The government had a positive moral obligation to provide the basic needs of those families; and if it was unwilling to do so, it had no business conscripting their breadwinners into military service.

By the way, when I enlisted, fathers were being drafted. I could have gotten out of military service, because I couldn’t pass a military physical. It took some persuading to get the Army to take me, and joining any of the other services was out of the question. Because I volunteered, some dad got to stay home with his kids, instead of going to war and maybe not coming home. That’s a fact.

It goes without saying I don’t appreciate it when someone casts aspersions on my patriotism because I disagree with them on a public policy issue which is fair game for debate, as happened back in 2003, and I am never, ever, going to forgive the rightwing loudmouths who did that and were WRONG about WMDs in Iraq and whether Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9/11 or otherwise was a threat to the U.S. For many years, I was a ticket-splitter — I typically voted about 80% Democrat and 20% Republican — but the GOP has lost my vote for good, and forever. Not entirely because of that, but it’s a major reason.

And if some redneck fuck on the street says something stupid about my patriotism, I’m gonna get in his face, or at least up to his ankles. He can count on that.

Roger @ 158 I, like you, don’t like abortion. I don’t want people to be in the position of having to choose. If I had ever been told that some gal I’d been with was with child, I think I’d have encouraged her to have the child, and I’d have tried to figure out a way to support that child. Down deep, though, I would have known it’s not my choice. When life begins is hard to decide. I do know that capital punishment involves killing a human being. I do know that launching a war involves killing a human being. I don’t think that abortion as legally permitted involves killing. At least, I don’t think that’s my decision to make.

@159 So what do you think is your fair share of taxes? Do you think you should only pay for government spending that you agree with? If so, then don’t you think I have an equal right to refuse to pay taxes for spending I don’t agree with? How would you make such a system work? Wouldn’t pretty much everyone say, “I don’t agree with any of the spending,” so we’d end up with nobody paying any taxes? How would government function in that scenario? Of course, this will never happen, because no government on earth, or in history, has ever agreed to taxes being voluntary. If you don’t comply with what the law requires you to pay, you’re taking on the full power of the sovereign state. We both know who’s going to win that one.

Our tax system isn’t perfectly fair. It sure as hell doesn’t treat everyone the same. But it’s what we’ve got until someone devises a better one. If you want to change it, you take your arguments and suggestions to the legislature or Congress.

For all the carping in this country about “runaway spending,” that spending is being done by congressmen who keep getting re-elected by the people doing the bitching, so something is out of sync here.

Personally, I’ve always believed that bitching about government, spending, and taxes is a national sport that most people do for fun, or at worst, to get if off their chest; and, in the old days, nobody took it too seriously.

That seems to be changing now, what with tax protesters brandishing guns at public protests or flying airplanes into IRS buildings. Some people go even further and talk about overthrowing our government or waging civil war against their fellow citizens if they disagree with the policies. I tend to take such folks seriously, and I believe law enforcement should, too.

Unlike most atheists and agnostics, Puddy gives God the credit for creating the universe as El Shaddai – GOD Almighty!

Sorry, the Torahg was written in Hebrew, not Spanish. “El” is one of the other Canaani Gods. So is Shaddai. So I guess you want to say that these Gods created the earth not Hashem?

So? What does that have to do with the quote frm Exodus?

God is a God of law SeattleJew.

A God of HIS law … not yours. God never made a law saying anything about immigrants.

Yoiu DO seem t have trouble telling God from Man

Oh???? You use their Bible? If you reject papery, where do YOU get YOUR bible?

Nope the Catholic Bible changes two of Gods Commandments. See other acts of the Catholic Church not supported by the Bible SeattleJew. Puddy uses the King James Version.

The King James version was, last time I looked, written in English. While some parts of it do differ from the Roman version, the bulk comes from same texts authorized by the Roman Emperor, Constantine. Last time I looked Jesus never authorized additions to the Torah … including all that stuff you keep quoting from Samuel to Daniel.

Or do you believe Jesus and KJ were buds?

Ever read the kindly man Luther?

Yep, Also saw the movie made about him around 50 years ago. Salvation is a free gift from God SeattleJew. I choose to accept it. Sooooooooooo?

I have no problem with anyone accepting salvation. I do have problems with the kind of hatred religious bigots, including Luther, spewed.

Why can’t Christians accept the guilt for the sins of your religion? Why do you want to blame all of that on papery?

If there is a God and if he is not a devil, I suspect he would want you to be tolerant of all of us, even those who do not believe that God needed to pin his son to a tree to demonstrate love

Regarding sin, reject the sin love the sinner… Puddy has ALWAYS said this proud leftist. Ask the arschloch for all Puddy’s references to this. But, of course, you don’t have the BALLS to ask the arschloch because when proven wrong your little glass house breaks. Puddy referenced Gay Marriage and you TWIST what Puddy referenced. That’s okay proud leftist because it DEMONSTRATES the kind of person you are.

Next how many times has Puddy discussed personal choice over the 5+ years on this blog and how God gave man personal choice. You can choose to follow God or you can be an atheist. Plain and simple. THE DUMB BUNNY demonstrates personal choice when he BRAGS about bestiality, you know publicly telling the world about his “fucking bunnies”. Freud said you mention it you think it. You demonstrated personal choice when you named a goat sex award after yourself. Freud said you mention it you think it. Atheists demonstrate personal choice when they REJECT God.

How many times has Puddy said the Old Testament and the New Testament make up the whole BIBLE? The Ten Commandment law of God from the Old Testament in Exodus and Deuteronomy, is eternal and continues to be true, and applies to all men of all times and generations FOREVER. Jesus kept the Old Testament law in the New Testament.

The New Testament proud leftist, speaks of the moral law which is the permanent, unchanging character of God and is summarized in the Ten Commandments. This law sets forth God’s demands on human life and man’s duty to God and his neighbor. Yet how many HA leftists claim if Jesus didn’t say it it ain’t true? Jesus abolished the ceremonial laws and Jesus said this. But Jesus didn’t abolish His Father’s law. Remember His “jot or tittle comment”? It definitely still applies to the Christian and is made clear in Romans 13. Then again many people have never read Romans 13. Have you proud leftist?

So it will all come to a head when Jesus returns in the clouds of glory. Has Puddy ever sad when you die you go directly to heaven proud leftist? The Bible does not say that. So why would Jesus have to come in the clouds of glory and open the tombs to receive the dead in Christ if they are already in heaven? Upon the final trump and the call of God, either Jesus tells gay peeps and their marriage supporters they are accepted in the kingdom or not. Either Jesus tells abortionists they are accepted in the kingdom or not. Either Jesus tells people who purposely went for an abortion except for incest or rape they are accepted into the kingdom or not. Either Jesus tells evolutionists they are accepted in the kingdom or not. If Jesus returns and Puddy believes this will all my heart, what do you think the immediate answer will be for the evolutionists and all who teach one of the marks of the beast proud leftist? Puddy believes God created the heaven and the earth. You evolutionists scream otherwise, hence the mark of the beast because you reject God’s creatorship. The other is the original Sabbath day to keep it holy proud leftist. This is another mark of the beast proud leftist. Where in the BIBLE did God or Jesus change the Sabbath day to Sunday? ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE proud leftist. Either Jesus tells people who heard the Sabbath is Saturday and reject it they are accepted into the kingdom or not. Either Jesus tells gun owners they are accepted in the kingdom or not.

You see proud leftist even Billy Graham said when asked.. “Some people I know tell me that the Ten Commandments are part of the law and do not apply to us today. They say that as Christians we are free from the law. Is that right?” Graham: “No, it is not right. And I hope you’ll not be misled by these false opinions. It is very important to understand what the New Testament means when it says that Christians are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they’re free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin.”

It’s very simple proud leftist. If you can’t remember what Puddy has said over the years (libtardo disease), ask the arschloch. Don’t go about saying Puddy said one thing or the other.

So when God changed jacob’s name to Yishra El (one who strives with God), God was referring to the Canaanite god el? Interesting theory SeattleJew.

Also SeattleJew you forget Exodus 6:2&3 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD, And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty (El Shaddai), but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Torah facts are hard things to deal with. Puddy rejects that theory.

God never made a law saying anything about immigrants.

Yet you wrote above

So Goldy has made a brilliant .. and very Jewish .. point about how the Bible, a book YOU claim came from your God, says Jews should be tolerant of foreigners.

Last time I looked Jesus never authorized additions to the Torah

Since you don’t accept Jesus, His love your neighbor as yourself command doesn’t apply for you or anything He said about additions to the Torah, right :)? And if God never made a law about immigrants then how do you equate your two comments?

Regarding other religions and their positions SeattleJew…

Puddy has referred to Foxe’s Book of Martyrs before on HA. Ask the arschloch for the references. In it the Roman Catholic church attacked anyone who disagree with their indulgences, their interpretation of scripture and their saying the pope can change God’s law (Sabbath to Sunday). Puddy doesn’t accept the Catholic view of Christianity.

Why can’t Christians accept the guilt for the sins of your religion? Why do you want to blame all of that on papery?

Did you miss Pope JPII’s “apology” on how peeps in his church persecuted people in the Dark Ages?

Psalm 111:7&8 God’s law is eternal.

Regarding the Catholic Bible, why do you confuse it with the King James translation? The Catholic Bible Old Testament includes 1st and 2nd Maccabees, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, The Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), additions to Esther, and the stories of Susanna and Bel and the Dragon which are included in Daniel. These are not in the King James version SeattleJew. Good try at confusing the issue. Puddy gave you information where they change the Bible to fit their religion, not the religion to fit the Bible.

“I’m begging you, your right to religion and freedom to exercise religion and read all of the passages of the Bible as you want to read them and as your church wants to preach them . . . are going to come under the ropes in the next year. If it lasts that long it will be the next year. I beg you, look for the words ‘social justice’ or ‘economic justice’ on your church Web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. Now, am I advising people to leave their church? Yes!”

Leave your church, huh? For what? Beck’s LDS and the prophet Joseph Smith, founder of the one true church?

“Communists are on the left, and the Nazis are on the right. That’s what people say. But they both subscribe to one philosophy, and they flew one banner. . . . But on each banner, read the words, here in America: ‘social justice.’ They talked about economic justice, rights of the workers, redistribution of wealth, and surprisingly, democracy.”

Geez, that’s what I would occasionally say here, “Commies to my left, facists to my right, and I don’t cotton to either one.” At the time I didn’t understand that there was such a thing as commie-fascism, well, not until the spawn of Lucianne Goldberg clued me in and Glenn Beck provided the needed confirmation. What can I say? I’m for social justice. I’m for worker rights. I’m for progressive taxation. I’m for democracy. Damn! It turns out that I’m one of them awful commie-fascists myself. Ouch! That sucks.

So when God changed jacob’s name to Yishra El (one who strives with God), God was referring to the Canaanite god el? Interesting theory SeattleJew.

Semitic and Egyptian peoples have long incorporated deities names into people’s names.

In any case, since you are not God, it seems to me YOU ought not to be violating His commandments about His name.

Also SeattleJew you forget Exodus 6:2&3 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD, And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty (El Shaddai), but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Torah facts are hard things to deal with. Puddy rejects that theory.

Sigghhh .. I assume you do understand that the Deity did not use King Jame’s English? Jeiwdh bibloes translate this as a statement by God that before Moses people worshiped God by names butu God says “I am that I am.”

Of courser you know better than the Jews?

God never made a law saying anything about immigrants.

Yet you wrote above

So Goldy has made a brilliant .. and very Jewish .. point about how the Bible, a book YOU claim came from your God, says Jews should be tolerant of foreigners.

Are you unable to understand the difference between a law and a statement folks should be tolerant?

Bottom line here you think illegals should be deporeted and want to justify your opinion but can’t fins anything in the bible so you are amking tjhings up. How Christian can you be?

Last time I looked Jesus never authorized additions to the Torah

Since you don’t accept Jesus, His love your neighbor as yourself command doesn’t apply for you or anything He said about additions to the Torah, right :)? And if God never made a law about immigrants then how do you equate your two comments?

What does this have to do with me? YOU caliom to have read a book that has the revealed truth but the book you read was never authorized by your Deity .. instead by the Romans who YOU say were wrong?

I suspect God would likke you to show somewhat less hypocrisy.

Regarding other religions and their positions SeattleJew…

Puddy has referred to Foxe’s Book of Martyrs before on HA. Ask the arschloch for the references. In it the Roman Catholic church attacked anyone who disagree with their indulgences, their interpretation of scripture and their saying the pope can change God’s law (Sabbath to Sunday). Puddy doesn’t accept the Catholic view of Christianity.

What has this to do with your accepting the Romans’ collection as the word of God?

Why can’t Christians accept the guilt for the sins of your religion? Why do you want to blame all of that on papery?

Did you miss Pope JPII’s “apology” on how peeps in his church persecuted people in the Dark Ages?

First, you want to blame the Church for all the evils of Christioanity then you hold up JPII as being an answer for what other christians have done?

As for the apology, iyt was a step forward. Returning the numerous stolen religious objects in the Vatican to their owners might be a bit more meaningful? Paying reparations for trillions stolen from people in Africa and the Americas might be even harder to do.

Psalm 111:7&8 God’s law is eternal.

So, how come you feel you can chang it?

Regarding the Catholic Bible, why do you confuse it with the King James translation? The Catholic Bible Old Testament includes 1st and 2nd Maccabees, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, The Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), additions to Esther, and the stories of Susanna and Bel and the Dragon which are included in Daniel. These are not in the King James version SeattleJew. Good try at confusing the issue. Puddy gave you information where they change the Bible to fit their religion, not the religion to fit the Bible.

You seem to be confused. Of course the Romans selected what was to be in their Bible, so did the Heirs of Henry the VIIIth. What is missing is any evidence or text where the Deity authorizes you guys to make uo your own revelations other than those in the Torah …unless you want to be a Mormon or a Muslim.

Bottom line here you think illegals should be deporeted and want to justify your opinion but can’t fins anything in the bible so you are amking tjhings up. How Christian can you be?

They broke the law SeattleJew… what part of “they broke the law” don’t you comprehend?

Regarding El Shaddai… from WikiPedia…

“Still another view is that “El Shaddai” is composed of the Hebrew relative pronoun She (Shin plus vowel segol), or, as in this case, as Sha (Shin plus vowel patach followed by a dagesh, cf. A Beginner’s Handbook to Biblical Hebrew, John Marks and Virgil Roger, Nashville:Abingdon, 1978 “Relative Pronoun, p.60, par.45) The noun containing the dagesh is the Hebrew word Dai meaning “enough,sufficient, sufficiency” (cf. Ben Yehudah’s Pocket English-Hebrew/Hebrew-English,New York, NY:Pocket Books, Simon & Schuster Inc.,1964,p. 44). This is the same word used in the Passover Haggadah, Dayeinu, “It would have been sufficient.” The song entitled Dayeinu celebrates the various miracles God performed while extricating the Hebrews from Egyptian servitude. It is understood as such by The Stone Edition of the Chumash (Torah) published by the Orthodox Jewish publisher Art Scroll, editors Rabbi Nosson Scherman/Rabbi Meir Zlotowitz, Brooklyn, New York: Mesorah Publications,Ltd. 2nd edition, 1994, cf. Exodus 6:3 commentary p. 319. The Talmud explains it this way, but says that “Shaddai” stands for “Mi she’Amar Dai L’olamo” – “He who said ‘Enough’ to His world.” When God was creating the world, He stopped the process at a certain point, holding back creation from reaching its full completion, and thus the name embodies God’s power to stop creation.

It is often paraphrased in English translations as “Almighty” although this is an interpretive element. The name then refers to the pre-Mosaic patriarchal understanding of deity as “God who is sufficient.” God is sufficient, that is, to supply all of one’s needs, and therefore by derivation “almighty”.”

Puddy has referred to Foxe’s Book of Martyrs before on HA. Ask the arschloch for the references. In it the Roman Catholic church attacked anyone who disagree with their indulgences, their interpretation of scripture and their saying the pope can change God’s law (Sabbath to Sunday). Puddy doesn’t accept the Catholic view of Christianity.

What has this to do with your accepting the Romans’ collection as the word of God?

Go back and view your original question SeattleJew.

First, you want to blame the Church for all the evils of Christioanity then you hold up JPII as being an answer for what other christians have done?

The evils of the church mostly happened during the Roman church time, not other Christians. You conflate us with them. WRONG. The Roman Church burned Huss at the stake. Attacked Luther. Destroyed the Waldenses. etc. etc. etc. My church as NOTHING to do with that.

You seem to be confused

Puddy suggests you are the confused one. Puddy presents the different Bibles and you claim Puddy confused. Nope. The Catholic Bible is absolutely different.

It’s pretty funny when non-Jews start lecturing Jews about what Hebrew words to use when referring to God. It’s even funnier when they use Wikipedia as their research source. El Shaddai hasn’t been used for approximately 2,500 years, and Jehovah was never used.

They broke the law SeattleJew… what part of “they broke the law” don’t you comprehend?

So? I have said nothing about my opiniuons as to how we should deal with illegals. YOU have and tried to blame your mean spirited views of Hashehm.

Regarding El Shaddai… from WikiPedia…

Again, so? Is the Wiki also the owrd of your God? BTW, if you read what you posted oit says the same thing I said … you ARE using the name of a pagan God to describe Hashem.

Just let me know if you wish to be stoned. We can meet somehwere with lotsa pebbles.

Go back and view your original question SeattleJew.

Oh? You mean the one about howsit that you Christians never feel a need to apoloigize for your atrocities?

The evils of the church mostly happened during the Roman church time, not other Christians. You conflate us with them. WRONG. The Roman Church burned Huss at the stake. Attacked Luther. Destroyed the Waldenses. etc. etc. etc. My church as NOTHING to do with that.

So .. YOUR church has washed itself of the 2000 years of blood let by the other sects?

As for blaming the Romans for all of this, you seem to be channeling Lee. Roman catholics did not burn witches in Dalem, were a tiny part of the American slavery story, were a minor part of the cultural genocide in the USA and Canada.

AND you still can’t tell me who authorized the books in your bible. Was it Jesus, Paul, Henry VIIIth or Constantine?

Puddy suggests you are the confused one. Puddy presents the different Bibles and you claim Puddy confused. Nope. The Catholic Bible is absolutely different.

Nope. Does your Bible have the book of revelations in it? Does it claim thatg the psalms are the word of Hashem? Oh yeh, what does it say about those nasty anti-romans.. the pharisees?

Seriously, I have no trouble with anyone’s beleifs as long as they do not use their beliuefs to justify the sort of mean spirited stuff you spout here. You think Obama is a bad guy, fine .. but doin’t blame Jesus for it. You think illegals should be deported.. I actually agree but do not look to Deuteronomy to find out what the law says.

So? I have said nothing about my opiniuons as to how we should deal with illegals. YOU have and tried to blame your mean spirited views of Hashehm.

Nope. That’s a total non-sequitor SeattleJew. Puddy said God looks at lawlessness. So how can man excuse illegal alien lawlessness? Good try.

Again, so? Is the Wiki also the owrd of your God? BTW, if you read what you posted oit says the same thing I said … you ARE using the name of a pagan God to describe Hashem.

Interesting. That’s the definition Puddy learned for Exodus. Puddy will take it under advisement.

The evils of the church mostly happened during the Roman church time, not other Christians. You conflate us with them. WRONG. The Roman Church burned Huss at the stake. Attacked Luther. Destroyed the Waldenses. etc. etc. etc. My church as NOTHING to do with that.

So .. YOUR church has washed itself of the 2000 years of blood let by the other sects?

Our church was not founded then. We disagree with many Catholic Church teachings. You already know this SeattleJew so why are you belaboring this point?

As for blaming the Romans for all of this, you seem to be channeling Lee. Roman catholics did not burn witches in Dalem, were a tiny part of the American slavery story, were a minor part of the cultural genocide in the USA and Canada.

Our church was against slavery. We weren’t around for Salem witch hunts. Talk to those protestant churches who did it.

Nope. Does your Bible have the book of revelations in it? Does it claim thatg the psalms are the word of Hashem? Oh yeh, what does it say about those nasty anti-romans.. the pharisees?

Why are you conflating King James Bible with the Catholic Bible. Sorry dude, that argument doesn’t wash. The change of the 10 commandments makes that argument FAIL!

The word El Shaddai, is discussed by Jewish rabbis as another description of God. The

The Stone Edition of the Chumash (Torah) published by the Orthodox Jewish publisher Art Scroll, editors Rabbi Nosson Scherman/Rabbi Meir Zlotowitz, Brooklyn, New York: Mesorah Publications,Ltd. 2nd edition, 1994, cf. Exodus 6:3 commentary p. 319. The Talmud explains it this way, but says that “Shaddai” stands for “Mi she’Amar Dai L’olamo” – “He who said ‘Enough’ to His world.” When God was creating the world, He stopped the process at a certain point, holding back creation from reaching its full completion, and thus the name embodies God’s power to stop creation.

Maybe Sarah68 and SeattleJew should discuss it with those identified rabbinical scholars above and stop and think for a minute why they said what Puddy emboldened.

Nope. That’s a total non-sequitor SeattleJew. Puddy said God looks at lawlessness. So how can man excuse illegal alien lawlessness? Good try.

Puddy said! Are you the Voice? BTW, slavery was the LAW in the US. Was that OK?

Our church was against slavery. We weren’t around for Salem witch hunts. Talk to those protestant churches who did it.

How nice. Nazis slaughter Jews, get conquered and now Germans should deny responsibility? They must need a A revelation that exempts them from German history. And does your church have some revelation that exempts itself from Chrsitianit history.

Look my friend. You know I am NOT antiChristian. I treasure the traditions we share that came from Christianity … egalitarianism, the concept of a loving God, passive resistance, … all of these grew from that root. BUT, the same root gave birth to chattel slavery, mass holocausts, etc.

To me the essence of humanism, whether one is an atheist or a theist, is learning from our errors. If your God prevents you from doing that either He is a bad God or you misunderstand him.

How nice. Nazis slaughter Jews, get conquered and now Germans should deny responsibility? They must need a A revelation that exempts them from German history. And does your church have some revelation that exempts itself from Chrsitianit history.

Our church denounced many illegal church activities. So what are you trying to get at?

The Holy Spirit guided men to write. Either you believe it or not. When Jesus returns many people will learn the hard way!

Try answering the question. WHAT did the HS guide men to write. How can you know what is Jesus and what is some bureaucrat in Constantinople or London?

As for Jesus, if he is a good God, then he will reward those who follow the law .. that is natural law … or do you think he is so vain he would rather you spelled his name right than gave alms to the poor?

For you to assume that I am an Atheist is incorrect and as usual one who makes up the facts. Accuse me of being disenfranchised with my religion or of betraying it, but not an Atheist. The Conservative Right Wing has hijacked and exploited Religion for Political reasons, and has lead to a souring in my taste for it. Call me a Sinner, like the rest of the Christians and yourself, but don’t stick the Bible in my Face. It would be better up your ass.

I am Mad at anyone straight – no just the bigoted straight people. But you be proud of your bigots.

As for Jesus, if he is a good God, then he will reward those who follow the law .. that is natural law … or do you think he is so vain he would rather you spelled his name right than gave alms to the poor?

You are saved by the Law and the grace of Jesus SeattleJew. Butt, you don’t believe in the New Testament.

I don’t happen to agree, but seem to recollect that the Episcopal Church has no problem with homosexuality per se. Some sects of Christianity do, and some have become noise machines for political parties on either side. This is regrettable and misleading to people outside Christianity.

I don’t judge your sexuality, as I have no spiritual, ethical or moral right to do so. I don’t know you or anything about you but what I misinterpret from your posts. Anyway, I have too many issues of my own to deal with to be competent at judging yours. Call me what you like, bigot included, if that helps you.

I was responding poorly to what struck me as a comment in poor taste regarding the tragedy of a teenagers’ death. To the extent that you were offended I am sorry.

I don’t recall sticking the Bible anywhere with regard to you. I intentionally don’t quote it here. Most of the people posting here want to grind specific axes against religion, and I’m uninterested in providing the grindstone.

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