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"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.” Samuel Adams

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.” Samuel Adams

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.” Samuel Adams

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

I’m talking about what Rep. Tlaib said, the meaning of which is clear in context, not dragging this any further afield. How are you honestly interpreting it any differently? And how is it wrong for her to have complicated feelings about the expulsion, displacement, and continuing oppression of her forebears?

How about how her people aided and abedded the Nazis during WW2? Another inconenient detail that should be ignored when taking here comments into 'context'? Fact of the matter is that she thinks of the holocaust in terms other than the absolute destruction of a grouping of people based on a belief structure. You go rationalize that any way you want along with the myriad of other comments her and the scum Omar have said in the past 6 months. Just keep whistling past the grave on this one.

Originally Posted by Julio3000

m not sure about gymnastics, but it seems like you do some pretty good twisting of your own when it’s pointed out that the nativist, nationalist, anti-immigration hardline that you take has a pretty big Venn overlap with white supremacists, racists, and anti-Semites.

How dare I share the beliefs that Muslims are not assimilating with their western society caregivers and that illegal immigration is wrong or that Social Justice nonsense is tearing the fabric of our society. I don't care who believes these things but the positions are correct as evidenced by what has happened in Europe and in the US. You can deny the truth all you want because of the 'uneasy' feeling you get with this views. I care more about the sustainabilty of Western society because of all the freedoms it has brought to the world.

But further on this, your point is absolutely bat**** crazy. This is like me saying that you have a massive polictical ideology venn overlap with men like Mao/Stalin/Hitler in your desire for the state to assume more power. Does that mean that you should have to be likened to them? I just can't believe you would use this argument as thought is not a binary process because thoughts are numerous and your collection of thoughts is what makes who you are on not singular issues.

Originally Posted by Julio3000

Hell, I’ve pointed out you posting tweets from white supremacists and holocaust deniers. You say, “well, they’re right about X.”

As noted above this is just an insane point you continue to bring up that in effect acts as a non sequitur based on my history of espoused beliefs. Its essentially a derivative of Godwins Law and you are clearly better than that.

Originally Posted by Julio3000

Then you equate any qualms about the occupied territories or settlement policies with the most extreme elements who might also hold those positions. So, are you asking for deference when you’re not willing to extend it to others? That seems like gymnastics to me. You’re complimentary of these European lite-fascists, when, like, part of their whole deal is blatant anti-Semitism. But they hate and scapegoat Muslims, too, so I guess you’re cool with them.

This whole argument about how the European populist movements are anti-Semitic in nature is well a bit of a stretch. Are there anti-Semites all over the world? Obviously, most people hate Jews because they have been taught to hate Jews. However, these movements are only branded anti-Semitic because they go against Soros and his army of propogandists around the world. I mean, almost the whole argument against Orban being anti-Semitic is that he posted billboards against Soros. That's so lazy and doesn't actually capture the policies that they are implementing. And yes, Islam is a big issue in the world and you can continue to choose to ignore it at your own peril while they kill thousands of innocents around the world each year.

Originally Posted by Julio3000

I’ve pointed out several times that Jewish Americans have long been on the forefront of the American left. The labor movement, the civil rights movement, etc. As I’ve intimated, there are many, many Jews who are anti-Zionist, and many more who might not go that far but who are appalled at the rightward lurch in Israeli politics over the last couple of decades. Those folks are not anti-semites, nor are their Gentile colleagues. Anti-semitism is a real and pernicious force, here and elsewhere, and I think we could all do ourselves a favor by being honest about where and how it intersects our politics.

Its easy to be anti-zionist when you don't have rockets coming into your childrens nurseries indiscriminately. Its easy to be anti-zionist when you aren't dealing with Iran trying to overthrow the only Jewish state through their proxy terror groups. Its easy to be Anti-Zionist when you aren't next door to policitical groups that provide rewards to families for killing Jewish soliders.

But after all of the above, how many 'poorly worded' comments will you endure of Omar/Talib? How many meetings with actual known antisemite Corbyn will you tolerate? How many invitiations to radical Islamists to Congress will you tolerate? How many hugs to someone who has stated he is 'anti-termite' will you tolerate?

All the while the populist movement around the world including America have been extremely favorable towards Jews moreso than any other political movement in the past 100 years.

It's amazing to me these congresswomen are basically in the news every week with a controversial comment, and yet each time you've managed to sweep it away.

But to your point quoted above, I'm sure you've taken interest in David Duke's praise of both Omar and Tlaib.

Perhaps that’s because, in most cases, such “controversial comments” are either not prima facie controversial at all, or have only become controversial because right-wing media outlets are cynically determined to gin up controversy.

Again, I find it odd that one party has more Jewish congresspeople currently serving than the other party has ever elected in 200-odd years, but it’s the other party, the one whose support for Israel largely stems from Christian eschatology, which is apparently appointing itself the arbiter of anti-Semitism in America.

And that calculation is quite simple: conspiracist scaremongering about George Soros is ok. Thinly-veiled language about globalist international financiers and cultural Marxism is ok. Decades of courting extremist ideology that actually results in a body count in the US is waved away. But criticism of Israel is rank anti-Semitism. Got it, buddy. Also got it that your concern for anti-Semitism has arisen in the past few months, despite the obvious tolerance for it in your circles for years, apparently unbeknownst to you.

Perhaps that’s because, in most cases, such “controversial comments” are either not prima facie controversial at all, or have only become controversial because right-wing media outlets are cynically determined to gin up controversy.

Again, I find it odd that one party has more Jewish congresspeople currently serving than the other party has ever elected in 200-odd years, but it’s the other party, the one whose support for Israel largely stems from Christian eschatology, which is apparently appointing itself the arbiter of anti-Semitism in America.

And that calculation is quite simple: conspiracist scaremongering about George Soros is ok. Thinly-veiled language about globalist international financiers and cultural Marxism is ok. Decades of courting extremist ideology that actually results in a body count in the US is waved away. But criticism of Israel is rank anti-Semitism. Got it, buddy. Also got it that your concern for anti-Semitism has arisen in the past few months, despite the obvious tolerance for it in your circles for years, apparently unbeknownst to you.

Whoa! You have won the internet!!!!

Perhaps that’s because, in most cases, such “controversial comments” are either not prima facie controversial at all, or have only become controversial because right-wing media outlets are cynically determined to gin up controversy.

Those darn right wing media!!!

A while ago I posted a thread on Tlaib's anti-semetism and you admitted you were "troubled"

I might remind that a newsletter 30 years ago still has you convinced you of someones racism today... but Tlaib and Omar's embracement of everything Jews find offesnive is nothing more than troubling

Again, I find it odd that one party has more Jewish congresspeople currently serving than the other party has ever elected in 200-odd years, but it’s the other party, the one whose support for Israel largely stems from Christian eschatology, which is apparently appointing itself the arbiter of anti-Semitism in America

I find it odder that you thin representation is congress is all the proof you need of a certain ideological.

Hey look! There's a jew in North Dakota which offsets the Muslim in Minnesota who wants to deny Israel's existence!

And that calculation is quite simple: conspiracist scaremongering about George Soros is ok. Thinly-veiled language about globalist international financiers and cultural Marxism is ok. Decades of courting extremist ideology that actually results in a body count in the US is waved away. But criticism of Israel is rank anti-Semitism. Got it, buddy. Also got it that your concern for anti-Semitism has arisen in the past few months, despite the obvious tolerance for it in your circles for years, apparently unbeknownst to you.

Israel has plenty of room for criticism. But we have congresspeople who pretend they don't exist (Tlaib) and others who cheer their bombing (Omar). Your response is to sweep it away bc (D). Your TDS has taken you down to the levels of the intellectually stupid.

The Left is acting like the Right with Trump with AOC and it is scary.

Only the Trump admin isn't overtly or covertly anti-Semitic. Only the Trump admin isn't overtly or covertly trying to restrict free speech. Only the Trump admin isn't overtly or covertly trying to restrict American rights.

But sure - lets go with the radical leftist or the 'moderate' ones like Biden who says we should provide healthcare to all illegals. What could go wrong?

Only the Trump admin isn't overtly or covertly anti-Semitic. Only the Trump admin isn't overtly or covertly trying to restrict free speech. Only the Trump admin isn't overtly or covertly trying to restrict American rights.

But sure - lets go with the radical leftist or the 'moderate' ones like Biden who says we should provide healthcare to all illegals. What could go wrong?

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.” Samuel Adams

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell