Goal of sub 20 5k (Read 13616 times)

Try a 25-minute tempo in the flats. I don't think speed is the issue with most people, it's speed endurance. Whatever you do, don't run 2 miles as hard as you can.
I know that there's the urge to see where you're at, but believe me, tempos pay off big time.

I am trying to closely follow the 5k program in Daniels Running Formula. It was raining and my wife had to go to the store so I had to stay home with my 3 year old. I got on my treadmill in the basement and ran a 15 minute tempo in my 12 ounce trainers (7:05 per mile pace)...that was somewhat difficult....ran a 3 minute jog...then put on the 6 ounce flats and ran 10 minute tempo (7:05 pace)....easy as pie...2 minute jog....then put on old crappy shoes and ran 5 minute tempo.
4.2 miles tempo in all...7 total miles run...the flats feel great it was easy to hit 180 strides per minute with the flats...before wearing the flats I was at 168 strides/minute.....after wearing the flats I was at 180 with the crappy shoes...go figure.

Ran a PR of 20:31 today on an uncertified, slightly short course. According to my Garmin it was 3.02 miles. Another guy had 3.05. If I recalculate my time from the distance on my GPS it comes out to around to around 21:04. Either way it's a PR over my previous best time of 21:33. The weather was decent, around 60 degrees and sunny.
Overall I felt really good about it except that I slowed down a little too much on mile 2, but I kind of needed it after a fast start. I think I could have done even better... my calves and ankles were a little sore before the race and I'm in the middle of my biggest week ever. I should hit 30 miles for the first time this week.
Hopefully I can break 20 or get close to there before summer. I think my last race is May 16th, then there aren't any more local ones until August. Hope everyone else had good races today.
Mile_Time_Pace_HR_Fastest Pace
1.00 06:48 6:48 189 5:29
2.00 13:42 6:54 199 6:16
3.00 20:24 6:42 205 5:04
0.02 20:31 6:10 213 5:37

Ran a PR of 20:31 today on an uncertified, slightly short course. According to my Garmin it was 3.02 miles. Another guy had 3.05. If I recalculate my time from the distance on my GPS it comes out to around to around 21:04. Either way it's a PR over my previous best time of 21:33. The weather was decent, around 60 degrees and sunny.
Overall I felt really good about it except that I slowed down a little too much on mile 2, but I kind of needed it after a fast start. I think I could have done even better... my calves and ankles were a little sore before the race and I'm in the middle of my biggest week ever. I should hit 30 miles for the first time this week.
Hopefully I can break 20 or get close to there before summer. I think my last race is May 16th, then there aren't any more local ones until August. Hope everyone else had good races today.

You look like a runner from your picture on your profile. Long thin legs. If you keep adding miles you could really bring your times down quickly. Just don't overdo it. Nice even splits you had in your race. Crazy that your maxHR is at least 213. My max is around 186 at age 35.
I race next Sunday...a huge race for me. I cannot wait to post a race report.
I am thinking strategy right now.
Maybe go out easy the 1st minute or two..but want to start up front so I don't get behind slow runners. I feel like I have put in the training and am very proud of where I will be once this race season opens. My chances at a sub 20 next week I would put at about 15%....I am expecting a time of around 20:30. Looking to run the 1st mile in around 6:30 but with my new racing flats who knows where I will be?
I will be below 21 minutes I can almost guarantee that.
88 Miles the last 2 weeks gives me alot of strength.
I will aim for about 35 miles this week.
Not trying to taper....but 35 miles last year would have been a relatively high mile week.

Just got back from my 5k this morning. Unofficially my time was 20:42 which is almost exactly what the pace calculators predicted from my 8k time 2 weeks ago. I don't know how accurate the mile markers were but my splits were 6:31, 6:33, 6:56, 0:42 with a 6:41 average. I definitely was fading fast but since I'm marathon training most of my speed work is done @ 10k pace so I'm not used to holding that pace for so long. Maybe I'll add a few faster paced intervals for the next few weeks and see if that helps for my next 5k in 3 weeks.
Edit: Forgot to mention. My time is about 1:30 faster then I ran this race last year and about 40 seconds faster then my previous official PR so I'm still happy.

Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose; it's how drunk you get. -- Homer Simpson

You're right about the 5:40 400's. If you can repeat those at say 8x400, you "should" be able to run 6:15 pace 5k. I used that bc I knew you had a solid base, and if you really want to break 20, you have to work the intervals to get that speed. Just think of it this way , if you can get to the 5:40's, breaking 20 will be a breeze for you. First week you may only be able to hold the pace for the first 2-3, but by wk 4 you will be able to hold it for the full 8x400.
Re Daniels, your paces are right on for where you're at right now, but you need to up it a little to where you want to be.
Good luck! You can do it.

I would just like to mention to you that your statement is not always true. May be it is true for someone but not always. I can do 12 to 14 x 1/4 mile averaging about 85sec each and I am very far away from 20 min 5k.

JimR

posted: 4/13/2008 at 7:11 PM

Recovery between 400's is a factor. Doing 400's with a lap or so recovery, that's a lot of recovery and skews the results and the effect. I do 1 lap float recovery for 800's, 1200's or 1600's. 400's I do a half lap. Some advocate no more than 30 seconds recovery (which means you cut down that pace on your 400). Twp people can do something like 8x400 at the same interval pace yet be two very different workouts.

Hey Guys,
a quick update...
I'm joining the recent PR club with a 20:33 on Saturday. The course had some hills - I'll call it medium difficulty for Upstate, SC. I believe I ran a near perfect race considering my current training.
Several races in the local corporate series coming up in the next 2 months (5 mile, another 5k, and an 8k) so it looks like I'll have some automatic tempo runs in my training. Going to focus on more miles (at least consistent miles) and smarter execution (pacing) of those 800 intervals.
Steve

Hey Guys,
a quick update...
I'm joining the recent PR club with a 20:33 on Saturday. The course had some hills - I'll call it medium difficulty for Upstate, SC. I believe I ran a near perfect race considering my current training.
Several races in the local corporate series coming up in the next 2 months (5 mile, another 5k, and an 8k) so it looks like I'll have some automatic tempo runs in my training. Going to focus on more miles (at least consistent miles) and smarter execution (pacing) of those 800 intervals.
Steve

Nice job Steve..pretty soon you will be faster than me. I would be happy with a 20:33 in my 5k race this Sunday. Ultimate frisbee is very good for running. If you look at a lot of running stars they got their starts in soccer/ swimming. Easy on the knees & joints to run on grass. Plus you do alot of running while you are having fun.

I am trying to closely follow the 5k program in Daniels Running Formula. It was raining and my wife had to go to the store so I had to stay home with my 3 year old. I got on my treadmill in the basement and ran a 15 minute tempo in my 12 ounce trainers (7:05 per mile pace)...that was somewhat difficult....ran a 3 minute jog...then put on the 6 ounce flats and ran 10 minute tempo (7:05 pace)....easy as pie...2 minute jog....then put on old crappy shoes and ran 5 minute tempo.
4.2 miles tempo in all...7 total miles run...the flats feel great it was easy to hit 180 strides per minute with the flats...before wearing the flats I was at 168 strides/minute.....after wearing the flats I was at 180 with the crappy shoes...go figure.

Some general comments after reading your posts:
IMHO, your tempo pace seems slow here. Sounds more like steady state. I'd expect ~6:40 mpm t-pace. Do that for 5 to 6 miles.
Also, get your long run around 12 miles with fast finishes. For intervals, 8-12 * 400 starting at 90 secs and move to 86s. Throw in some 82s with longer recoveries.
With your mileage build up, I'd expect you to peak in May.
You must have seriously crappy crappy shoes if you cadence varies that much. For a given pace, I run about the same no matter the shoe.
Finally, I think you should train for a 10k, and dovetail in a 5k or two. You need to switch it up a little.

"Only a few more laps to go and then the action will begin, unless this is the action, which it is."