If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

What if there was a Physical Hidden Power?

So, Hidden Power's a pretty important move in the metagame, and it has a big impact. I mean, for many Pokémon, it can be used to patch holes in their coverage or to help deal with certain would-be checks and counters. Hidden Power Ice and Fire are common additions to the movesets of any Pokémon and others, such as Ground, Grass and Rock aren't so uncommon either. In certain cases, they can make a Pokémon what it is - Magnezone would be no way near as useful if Hidden Power didn't exist. You can't deny that being able to give any Pokémon a move of any type is pretty useful.

But there's one major setback that means Hidden Power just can't quite become arguably the best move in the game, up there with the likes of Stealth Rock, and that's the fact that it's Special, meaning that it's practically useless on most Physical Attackers. Certain Physical Sweepers would really appreciate a move such as Hidden Power, imagine Kyurem-B with a 70 Power Fire move coming off that Attack Stat! No more Ferrothorns as counters, that'd be for sure.

So, my question is, what impact do you think the introduction of a Physical version of Hidden Power (i.e. the exact same mechanics as the Hidden Power we know and love, except Physical) would have?

Hey Serebii, how you doing? Not sure how many of you guys from way back are out there, but just to let you know that I'm back, though I'm not sure how regularly I'll be on. Thanks for everything, and I hope I can continue to enjoy my time here!

I think the impact of that hidden power would be pretty big, but it won't be used by as many pokemon as the current hidden power I think. Sure, some pokemon can really benefit from it, and some will go up some tiers, like technician pokes, who really benefit from this, though I think it will not change the metagame like the perma-weather did this gen. I'm not an expert though, and maybe I'm wrong, Í don't know.
Btw I suppose you mean it has approximately the same distribution as the special hidden power (everyone except special pokes like wobbufet)?

I think it would rework the meta quite alot as stall would lose viability. Yeah you can used skarm bliss, but scizor with hp fire (attacking stat) wins. terrakion with ice beats gliscor, and so many other things it would bequite interesting for sure. There is already one to a degree, being natural gift (max power 70, type choosable) but one shot and item wasting makes it terrible. I just fear hp fire haxorus, maybe hp fire gyaradoses as well. ferrothorn loses all its usableness straight away with more fire moves around.

To make it clear, if you PM me, I get an email. I do not use this site anymore.
If you PM me I will do my best to get back to you.

I could see lower tier mons like Klinklang and Cincinno making great use of PHP. It can help round out there coverage problems better and make HP Ice on Mienshao unneeded since PHP would be a better choice.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

wow, we're now pre-ordering an 18 year old game

guess Nintendo knows how poorly GS play and needs a cheap pre-order bonus to rope people in

gotta get the preloads in so the servers don't get hammered by all those nerds trying to download their 0.00004 GB of retro meh on relaunch day

I think it would rework the meta quite alot as stall would lose viability. Yeah you can used skarm bliss, but scizor with hp fire (attacking stat) wins. terrakion with ice beats gliscor, and so many other things it would bequite interesting for sure. There is already one to a degree, being natural gift (max power 70, type choosable) but one shot and item wasting makes it terrible. I just fear hp fire haxorus, maybe hp fire gyaradoses as well. ferrothorn loses all its usableness straight away with more fire moves around.

And it'd really be a pain to see that. The metagame is offensive enough already, but at least we have the ability to reliably check or counter most threats defensively.

Certain Physical Sweepers would really appreciate a move such as Hidden Power, imagine Kyurem-B with a 70 Power Fire move coming off that Attack Stat! No more Ferrothorns as counters, that'd be for sure.

Well, it still has 120 base SA to use special HP Fire, so there's that.

Physical Hidden Power probably wouldn't be too useful since most coverage types are easily learned by most physical sweepers. Elemental punches, Elemental fangs, Brick Break, Earthquake, Aqua Tail, Stone Edge / Rock Slide, X-Scissor etc. There are very few physical sweepers that don't already have what they need.

There are a FEW that could use this.

Haxorus could use a fire move to hit Skarmory with, though it would need Swords Dance to really do much damage.

IMO I actually find a Physical Hidden Power can actually be useful to some pokes in the lower tiers. Stuff like birds are walled by rock types... a physical ground hidden power or fighting hidden power could solve all that.

Though most of the stuff in OU probably already got good coverage in elemental punches and all the other stuff.

That's the thing most walls have either high HP or high Defenses and if it did come around in Gen 6 ,there would be a big change in the metagame, as there would be new pokemon to counter it and wall it so if they did bring in physical hidden power it would only really be useful against the older pokemon. What I'm trying to say is even if there was then it would probably be countered by new pokemon or even new moves. Still it would be cool :3

I think it would rework the meta quite alot as stall would lose viability. Yeah you can used skarm bliss, but scizor with hp fire (attacking stat) wins. terrakion with ice beats gliscor, and so many other things it would bequite interesting for sure. There is already one to a degree, being natural gift (max power 70, type choosable) but one shot and item wasting makes it terrible. I just fear hp fire haxorus, maybe hp fire gyaradoses as well. ferrothorn loses all its usableness straight away with more fire moves around.

Originally Posted by Chingchar

That's the thing most walls have either high HP or high Defenses and if it did come around in Gen 6 ,there would be a big change in the metagame, as there would be new pokemon to counter it and wall it so if they did bring in physical hidden power it would only really be useful against the older pokemon. What I'm trying to say is even if there was then it would probably be countered by new pokemon or even new moves. Still it would be cool :3

So we'd predict big changes then, huh? Personally, I don't think it would have that much of an impact, since many Phsyical Sweepers already have good enough coverage and what counters them will still do so. I guess they may be able to go with a certain Physical HP to counter a specific counter but I reckon that it'd make them lose their effectiveness overall.

Hey Serebii, how you doing? Not sure how many of you guys from way back are out there, but just to let you know that I'm back, though I'm not sure how regularly I'll be on. Thanks for everything, and I hope I can continue to enjoy my time here!

*Note* I tried not to repeat any of the ones above, and while it may not outright Ko a mon that otherwise walled one of these guys, these hp types should do a good chunk of damage. I did this because most people are saying only a handful of mons would like this, but in reality most of the ou physical attackers would like this, nevermind lower tiered mons who may have great stats but no coverage moves

Physical Hidden Power probably wouldn't be too useful since most coverage types are easily learned by most physical sweepers. Elemental punches, Elemental fangs, Brick Break, Earthquake, Aqua Tail, Stone Edge / Rock Slide, X-Scissor etc. There are very few physical sweepers that don't already have what they need.

This really is it. I mean, there are just so many physical pokemon out there, a physical HP would throw the entire competitive scene into chaos for a bit.
But like BH said, physical mons have dozens of coverage moves via the move tutor and TMs; plus, Edgequake or similar coverage is only reliably available to physical attackers, while Boltbeam-type coverage can be had through the punches and fangs.

I would kinda wanna see what would happen to the metagame, but not keep it permanently. Just, see what would happen, what chaos would come about, then just put everything back together. Hell, I think some pokes would even go uber because of it..

I would kinda wanna see what would happen to the metagame, but not keep it permanently. Just, see what would happen, what chaos would come about, then just put everything back together. Hell, I think some pokes would even go uber because of it..

No, not ubers.

If it goes to ubers or not depends more on offensive checks more then defensive counters now in days.

It would be very interesting. Especially since Technician users like Breloom and Scizor can fire off 90 Base power Hidden Powers with their Attack stat. That's a really scary thought.
For example. Breloom with PHP Ice 60 (90 with Technician) and holding Life Orb is a guaranteed OHKO on Gliscor. It also OHKOs Dragonite after Stealth Rock damage.

I would kinda wanna see what would happen to the metagame, but not keep it permanently. Just, see what would happen, what chaos would come about, then just put everything back together. Hell, I think some pokes would even go uber because of it..

Originally Posted by Aura Flare Riolu

It would be very interesting. Especially since Technician users like Breloom and Scizor can fire off 90 Base power Hidden Powers with their Attack stat. That's a really scary thought.
For example. Breloom with PHP Ice 60 (90 with Technician) and holding Life Orb is a guaranteed OHKO on Gliscor. It also OHKOs Dragonite after Stealth Rock damage.

Yeah, Zachmac's right about Offensive Counters being more important these days, so I'm not sure about Ubers. I'll take the example of Breloom, yeah, it'd be able to OHKO Celebi, Dragonite, Gliscor etc with its new Hidden Power Ice, but a lot of these counters outspeed it, so it'd have less of an impact.

Hey Serebii, how you doing? Not sure how many of you guys from way back are out there, but just to let you know that I'm back, though I'm not sure how regularly I'll be on. Thanks for everything, and I hope I can continue to enjoy my time here!

I think if that happened pretty much the metagame would just be crazy, it would go from being as it is now to actually being something where you would have to be some sort of damn expert to be able to hold your ground in battles, why? Well I mean just look as it is now, people are always cautios on what hidden power special or mix attackers have, now imagine having to do the same for physical attackers? In my opinion it would just make the metagame more difficult to keep up with