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Suicide...what makes the difference?

In your opinion...what do you think makes the difference between a person who decides to go through with it, and someone who just ponders the idea? What goes on in the former's mind that gives them that extra "push"?

"I'll cast a spell that you can't undo...'til you wake up and you find that you love me too..."

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Suicidal ideation begins with overwhelming emotional stress and it can lead to two different attempts: suicide and parasuicide. Not all suicide attempts are made with the intent to actually go through with it. A seriously desperate person may actually the realize the potential to get better and feel better, so may only attempt a parasuicide.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Attention. Those that commit to the idea - myself included - might give signs, but usually just do it without waiting for everyone to fall all over themselves to save them from themselves. Those that try to do it with an audience are a rarity, not the rule.

"Thereís death on the horizon,and Iíll run to behold your sacrifice..."

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

I think the person who goes through it with the real intent to end their life sees no way out/no way back from their situation/circumstances/state of mind, etc.

The person who only contemplates the idea, but never actually tries probably sees some glimmer of hope or recognizes that things can change (for the better) in an instant. Also...said person may not want to hurt their loved ones, "miss out" on anything, or be afraid of a "botched" attempt.

"I'll cast a spell that you can't undo...'til you wake up and you find that you love me too..."

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Unfortunately I am well versed in the subject. A combination of myself in a younger day, my first girlfriend's suicide, my mothers attempted suicide, my friend's suicide attempt, a keen interest in Psychology, and my acceptance into university.

I never went through with it because I read a lot, I knew full well there were better days ahead, but some days it seemed like nothing would ever go right for me, slowly I realized I had to go left. I got to the bottom of my depression and anxiety, accepting my sexuality was a great first step.

My girlfriend at the time simply said she just couldn't take it anymore. She felt she had no one else to turn to, other than me. Her family hated her, she couldn't stand her friends, and high school was getting rougher and rougher for her. She had lost all hope in anything, no grades, no good home life, no goals, aspirations, just all around despair. Said she just couldn't fit in anywhere. She said "I just wish I could feel love"

The difference between her and I was even though I felt some of the same feelings I knew it was me who had control over my perspective. Even though I had a very hard time truly fitting in, I would love myself anyways, if there wasn't many people to talk to at least I would want to understand myself, I could be awfully introspective and introverted at times.

Both my mother and my friend had a similar situation with their attempted suicide. Both of them over dosed on pills, but there were people who were inside the house at the time, so it was less about wanting to die, but more about wanting to ask for help without the use of words. Sometimes there are no words to describe your pain. Of course on some small level they probably thought it could be the end, maybe the attempt would work and no one would find them. Both of them when confronted admitted to taking a copious amount of pills, meaning they certainly wanted to tell someone. It's too bad sometimes the most real conversations take place in the therapists office.

From my experience the difference is how alone you really feel. Successful suicides often take place when the person is alone. The irony being they don't want to hurt the people around them, if people realized that those people they don't want to hurt are the people worth living for and you really aren't alone.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Originally Posted by Gentleheart

I think the person who goes through it with the real intent to end their life sees no way out/no way back from their situation/circumstances/state of mind, etc.

The person who only contemplates the idea, but never actually tries probably sees some glimmer of hope or recognizes that things can change (for the better) in an instant. Also...said person may not want to hurt their loved ones, "miss out" on anything, or be afraid of a "botched" attempt.

I agree with this. Maybe I'd also include will power. I had a friend in junior high who contemplated suicide and even went as far as writing a note to his parents. He wasn't able to go through with it and actually do the deed and I believe he really tried. I found out about this when we were in high school and when he was over that suicidal period of life. I had never known. We are still friends to this day and I am thankful he never went through with it.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

It's a combination of pain (physical, emotional, or both) a sense of complete hopelessness, and an inability to see any sort of surcease or release other than in death.

I've been there twice, and as someone who deals with being bi-polar, suicidal thoughts are often with me. Indeed, I have a check-out plan depending on how the future unfolds. That said, I'm trying for a successful future, but it's a definite struggle.

It's what makes being my friend a challenge for others, and a complete write-off as a potential partner or b/f.

Ironically, my wonky wiring allows me to write music with a certain degree of depth that resonates with many people.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

I read somewhere that when one popular method of suicide is made more difficult, suicides decrease. For example, the most common way of committing suicide in the UK used to be "putting the head in the oven". When they changed ovens and/or the gas lines so this wasn't possible, the suicide rate was cut in third. When popular bridges and high buildings installed "anti-suicide" fences or whatnot, the overall suicide rate in the city dropped. This suggests that the theory that "if people are going to commit suicide, you can't stop them" is wrong - apparently, simply making it more of a hassle is enough to get some people to decide against it. They don't simply find another tall building or bridge or weapon.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

I've never been suicidal but I have hurt myself at a time because I'd rather feel physical pain then emotional. Only real life person I know that knows this is my boyfriend. It is hard to speak how people deal with things emotionally, but speaking for myself to this day there are things that even though I know how to handle it in my head when the situation or emotional stress presents itself I shut down.

I don't think I can add anything more than that other then agreeing with some view points in this thread based on my perception and not someone who actually understands what someone who is suicidal is going through.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

In the late 70s, I made three suicide attempts (over-the-counter sleeping pills, rat poison, electrocution in the bathtub). In 1989, I made five 'passive' attempts with a 357 Magnum.

As I've said before, I made a vow after my third attempt that I wouldnt kill myself within 10 years. that hasn't happened.

I have a fascination with suicide and always have. In therapy, that is my biggest issue. I always think I'll end up killing myself so why bother. My therapist hasn't been able to help me get over my ideation with suicide. I really wish I could because I've wasted my life as a result. It would nice to not be a factor in my life.

Yesterday, I went into Staples because my 4 month old laptop died. My looks obsession was triggered by seeing an attractive older man and the younger guy wearing shorts, nice butt and arms. I started feeling bad about myself.

I went to go see Captain America 2. I was sitting in the movie theater and I realized that the theater was close to the train station.

Although I told my mom that I would never try to kill myself while she was alive, the thought cross my mind. This was my chance. I thought about it for a few minutes but decided to not leave.

A person who really wants to kill themselves would have left the theater and waited for the next train. If someone chooses a lethal way of suicide, they usually want to follow through with it.

I gave the analogy about the person leaping off a building. suicidal people would be glad the pain is about to end and the others who attempt would think "oh crap, what did I just do?"

We live in a society where animals and the dying are put out of their misery, but anyone else does not have that choice.

It's not a selfish act. A selfish act is my mom wanting me to be around while, if given the choice, I would not want to be around.

I do think about my sisters if I were to do something and I know they would be in pain but I've been in pain for 32 years. I should / anyone should have the right to end their life.

Ideally, my family would sit down, I would give the my reasons, they could ask questions, and when all is said and done, they would understand my choice and accept it. I think that's the kind of society we should have.

I ended up walking out of the movie because I just wasn't in the mood to watch it. I went home and went to sleep because I didn't sleep great the previous night.

I don't share this because I want attention but rather maybe someone will see I have some valid points in what I've said. They do it in Europe. Why can't we have the same option?

But I know it would be utter chaos if I did try because I've seen my mom in a manic state and so I did promise that to her. Ironically, she has said she wouldn't like it but because she has been there, she would understand (a little bit)

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

For me, all I have to do is imagine the eternal sorrow my death would cause my daughters. I go put my arms around them, and them me, and they give me the strength to trudge on. I don't want to pass on the ache that I live with every day, so I lie and say I'm fine, and hope they understand.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Originally Posted by Gentleheart

I think the person who goes through it with the real intent to end their life sees no way out/no way back from their situation/circumstances/state of mind, etc.

The person who only contemplates the idea, but never actually tries probably sees some glimmer of hope or recognizes that things can change (for the better) in an instant. Also...said person may not want to hurt their loved ones, "miss out" on anything, or be afraid of a "botched" attempt.

Not an expert but
their mental pain must be so great that being dead is better than living.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

I can imagine suicide, but I can't hold the idea in my head, even in the abstract, without a powerful voice of self preservation intruding in my thoughts. Actually the instinct of self-preservation commandeers my thoughts entirely. Even just typing this, there is a "NO!" forming itself in my head.

I imagine for those who go through with it, that voice goes quiet or is unheard.

I can think unflinchingly of ending my life to prevent the suffering decline of dementia, or perhaps some other kinds of suffering, but even then there is a creative voice suggesting ways to cope without it having to come to that.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Suicide is so stupid. Who gives a fuck about what other people think of you or who has it better than you and what not.

More rich people kill themselves than poor anyways so being all wealthy and successful isn't all that good. Be happy for the situation that you are in and just mind your own business and let good come to good people and bad come to bad people.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Originally Posted by Taralen

Suicide is so stupid. Who gives a fuck about what other people think of you or who has it better than you and what not.

More rich people kill themselves than poor anyways so being all wealthy and successful isn't all that good. Be happy for the situation that you are in and just mind your own business and let good come to good people and bad come to bad people.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Originally Posted by mizanin66

Well a lot of famous people aren't happy so i guess Its true.But for some reason i just get ,high on life i want to live i love things and i dont get easily depressed. I dont drink Either so when bad things happen i dont turn a bottle.

I think i just love life.

Well, the aren't happy ones get reported the most but the happy ones aren't news.
So your statement could be completely wrong.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

I have never been in a position where I was seriously contemplating suicide but I have thought about it and I get an instant terror inside....

I am not afraid of death but I am terrified of having to come back and repeat this specific leg in my soul's journey again. I am also terrified that I would not be able to join my soul group or hold them back if they have to wait for me.....and that is as far as I get.

The first part of my life this time was pure hell. I do NOT want to repeat it.

Of course...that is my definite deciding factor not to even consider it but it is very much about my spiritual beliefs which are strong within me and my reason would not work for people who did not believe as I do.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Viewing our ordeals in the clear light of day enables us to better understand that there is always a remedy available that our nightmarish dilemma had failed to reveal to us.....patience in the face of adversity is a wise friend always willing to open doors, and usher us into an atmosphere of calmness where we can construct the solution that resolves those matters that cause us so much anguish...

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Originally Posted by Dejavudoo

Evidently, English comprehension would clear this up.

Mizanin66 didn't claim a majority of the wealthy were unhappy, but "a lot." His assertion is back up by many headlines in many countries and cultures of the scandals, misery, and downfall of this or that rich man or woman. Therefore, "a lot" have been seen to be unhappy.

That a great majority may be happy in their comfort and wealth isn't the point. The point is that wealth is no insulator against despair. It is a human condition.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Originally Posted by Dejavudoo

Again, understanding English would be key.

It is not a matter of "a lot" plus the rest equals 100%. It is not a majority and a minority.

"A lot" is not intended nor equal to "most" or "a majority." It simply means "many" or "much," which are quantifiers. It means more than a few. When someone says "there are a lot of rapists in Malaysia," the meaning is that there may be hundreds, thousands, or millions. But, if a country has a population of 200,000,000 souls, the 2,000,000 is indeed "a lot" and not few, but by no means a majority or even a large percentage when one realizes it is only 1%.

But, true to an evil desire, you have perverted a meaningful thread about compassion and suicide into a clusterfuck about wealth. Nice job. Your boss must be proud.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Originally Posted by Gentleheart

In your opinion...what do you think makes the difference between a person who decides to go through with it, and someone who just ponders the idea? What goes on in the former's mind that gives them that extra "push"?

I think you have to be prone to it, some people seem to genetically be prone to it. I've never considered it. I would never unless I was ill and in horrible pain or situation.

A new study has found evidence that a specific gene is linked to suicidal behavior, adding to our knowledge of the many complex causes of suicide. This research may help doctors one day target the gene in prevention efforts.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Originally Posted by bankside

I can imagine suicide, but I can't hold the idea in my head, even in the abstract, without a powerful voice of self preservation intruding in my thoughts. Actually the instinct of self-preservation commandeers my thoughts entirely. Even just typing this, there is a "NO!" forming itself in my head.

I imagine for those who go through with it, that voice goes quiet or is unheard.

I can think unflinchingly of ending my life to prevent the suffering decline of dementia, or perhaps some other kinds of suffering, but even then there is a creative voice suggesting ways to cope without it having to come to that.

Thank you for making this point. I've always said that self-preservation is a continual heartbeat within the human psyche. It's as if the human mind is some sort of computer, with built-in programs that resists it's destruction or demise despite the circumstances. It's a very powerful thing to overcome unless and only unless the mind is met with an infinite measure of hopelessness. And for this reason we should NEVER ridicule or make light of a person who has succumbed to their own self destruct program.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

The causal reasons for suicide are many. Ranging from despair, grief, anger, guilt, finances to mention but a few. Many members know of my struggle when my first partner died. I have bared my soul on the subject several times.
For me it was an overwhelming sense of loss, coupled with the most anger that i have ever felt, towards not only those responsible, but also towards my own faith.

Mine were not impulsive thoughts, these are commonly but not exclusively the reason for people jumping from extreme heights, be it a building or a bridge. Or throwing oneself onto the path of a train or car.
I had made sure my affairs were in order, my will was updated, all my bills payed. Plus a lengthy and detailed letter to my friends trying to explain why i felt i had to do this.

I had drawn up a lethal dose of Fentanyl. I had placed the syringe on my desk and sat and just stared for hours, trying to find an alternative and less final and drastic solution. At that time i could not, for me all hope and the joy of live had gone.
My sleeve was rolled up, a tourniquet was in place, all i had to do was slip the needle into a vein. Death would have been very, very fast and pain free.
This was not a parasuicide attempt, of hesitation cuts on my wrists, or swallowing handfuls of tablets, usually but not always washed down with strong spirits.
For me this was as real as it got. What stopped me? My phone rang, it was my partners best mate and a great friend of mine, he had called to let me know he was on his way over to my flat.
That is what stopped me, the thought of a great friend finding me, and the trauma he would have suffered, especially after seeing my
partner and his best mate die.

Now, that great friend is my partner, through him, and i must confess through the support i received from many members here, i slowly
started to function again.
It was no easy task, i had to rid myself of the hate i felt towards not only those responsible for Erik's death, but my total indifference to the world that surrounded me, all of it's wonders, all of it's humanity. Even my faith.
It was not an easy journey, and took me over two years to even begin to see a glimpse of what life still held.
For me that is what made the difference.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Is this going around in your head or are you thinking this through out of concern for someone else who might be close to you and having these thoughts?

I know you for posting the most original and perceptive questions on JUB, and for your helpfulness and kind regard to others. So that's how I took your question at first. I assumed you would be more likely to think about this than experience it. But if you're finding it hard to lift your head up above your own thoughts right now, I'd bet that's a surprise to you too because you know yourself to be the helpful one who gets by, not the one who would need help.

But nobody can make that assumption about others or themselves. What I didn't mention in my last post is that internal voice that keeps us going is allowed to get tired sometimes and allowed to be exhausted. That's what the rest of the world is supposed to be there for, to step in and carry on showing you a path forward when your own voice fails. None of us has to be able to figure out and cope with every problem we face. It's okay to lay stuff at the foot of someone else to figure out.

So if this is more real to you than abstract and if connecting the dots doesn't seem to be leading you forward to a happy long life, say so.

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

I've heard Suicide described as a Permanent "solution" to Temporary "problems". I'm using those quotes as an example of Perception. And, obviously, those who Do commit suicide do Not consider their "problems" Temporary.

However, some of those "problems", even a terminal illness, certainly ARE Temporary. That is ... ALL of Us are going to Die eventually. LIFE is not something ANY of Us are going to survive! So ... the question really boils down to whether we are going to choose to end that Life, by our own hand, OR, are we going to let the rest of our time Naturally play out?

I've contemplated Purposefully leaving the Planet, many, Many, times, from my mid teens to even now. Perhaps, even MORE Now, since I'm closer to my guaranteed End. As convoluted as it might sound, I might prefer killing myself before I have to face Dying, and what I might have to go through before I get There!

I also realize that's pretty Selfish! I'm not really "Up" to experiencing certain health, financial, and "Quality of Life" declines. I mean, that's not really Living anyway. Is it?

Of course, though I think I have a good idea of what's to come, how can I really Know?

SO ... since I also Know that things Can "turn on a dime", and there isn't Anything "certain" about the Future, I've also, at least for Now, decided to wait to see "The REST of The Story".

I do hold that, "We are ALL Spiritual Beings 'enjoying' a Temporary physical existence." SO ... why not let that Temporary run it's course? There is Always the possibility there could be more Interesting things yet to come!

Then again ... Depression can be a Very Dark, yet quite Comfortable, state to wallow in. And, there doesn't have to be a "Reason" for it, as self-destructive as it can be. It has Nothing to do with social standing/relationships, financial well being, nor Anything else. It can Devour YOU without regard to your True intentions, or desires.

Butt, the realization that the Sun is going to rise tomorrow, and the dawning day has the Potential to have unexpected surprises in store, is more of an incentive, at least so far, to hang around to see what might happen.

All the more reasons to ... No Matter What ...

Keep Smilin'!!
Chaz

WISDOM is the Knowledge you've gained ... After you could have used it!_Me

Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts, opinions, and ideas regarding this sensitive topic. For those of you concerned...I started this thread because I have been having feelings of worthlessness for a while now, and I do sometimes wonder about what it'd be like to just not exist anymore.

However, I do keep that glimmer of hope that things will get better...and I will make it through this period. I have been told by friends and loved ones that I am much too hard on myself, and I should give myself a "break" sometimes. I'm working on it.

I would never do anything to hurt myself, but I couldn't help but wonder what it is within me that keeps me from even allowing myself to entertain the idea, while so many others not only entertain the idea but actually follow through with it. It was curiosity at most. No worries, guys.

I just allow myself to feel some kind of way...and keep on moving.

Last edited by Gentleheart; April 10th, 2014 at 09:03 PM.

"I'll cast a spell that you can't undo...'til you wake up and you find that you love me too..."