Message to GOP care of Rachel Maddow

Originally posted by kosmicjack
The reality is that the Right often seems more interested in stubbornly arguing about what the truth is - in the face of all facts and evidence
- rather than finding the bipartisan solutions our country needs to be productive and competitive in the 21st Century.

It's as simple as that and her editorial merely highlights that sad fact.

Though I thought the intro to the show last night was better - less divisive.

Interesting that it is only "the Right" that is the problem.
The points being made are not - "work together", but rather - "do what the Left (or - to pander to the prevailing sensibilities of this thread -
"Moderates") KNOWS BY EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE" should be done.
The Left/(Moderate) answer is - "more government", "more taxes", "more regulation", and strict adherence to political correctness in all
thought, text, speech and action (Newspeak anyone?).
The Right/(Capitalistic) view is - "less government", "less tax", "less regulation", and freedom of thought, text, speech and...personal
responsibility.
These views are diametrically/diabolically opposed.
Yet...an almost 50/50 split of the nation's vote somehow translates to - "It's a referendum against the GOP - the Right - Conservative
views...&...The Conservatives will never win another election!".
I am probably as Non-Conservative as any "Liberal" in this thread... But most of what I've read (so far) is little more than gibberish.

No one has asked you to pay for or have the Government hand out contraceptives. What has been done however is to require insurance companies cover
them in the same manner they do most if not all other prescriptions as they should be.

Including ED drugs. I haven't yet heard a single man howling in rage and despair that he has to pay for another man's Viagra or Cialis, or that they
get those drugs for free while we have a co-pay for birth control even if we have insurance.

This single issue has been so distorted and exaggerated it is not even funny. There has been in fact a war on women. From person-hood
amendments, which by their very nature remove even the choice of being able to use certain contraceptives. Which then becomes another health issue
because hormonal birth control is used to treat a variety of other conditions. Like it or not Planned Parenthood and the ability to go there saved my
reproductive ability in my younger years.

This rings home for me personally. South Carolina (I think it was) tried passing a bill that said if a woman had a miscarriage, she had to prove it
wasn't anything she did that caused it, or else go to jail.

As someone who's had two miscarriages myself, I find that whole thing offensive.

I want to know what core value it is you just can't let go, and why your core values are in fact greater than anyone else? Why is it that your
core values make it so that you can not look at history and see prohibitions do not work and do nothing more than elevate crime rates and enrich
criminals? Why is it that your core beliefs make you incapable of saying it is better to let them decide for themselves? I don't ask that you respect
my choices, I don't ask that you approve of them either. I do ask that you respect my right and ability to decide for myself what is best for me.

Agree. As people who have free will, who are they to take that free will away?

I have never said my core values are better then anybody else's. I have just said that I have core beliefs. Most liberals do not. You say there is a
war on women? I say there is a war on men promulgated by women.

It is not meant to. However that was a trick question meant to show you how generic your list of core values are. I was curious if you were going to
catch it. How about the right to kill aka the Zimmerman debate? Would you care to talk about the view from the Casey Anthony case where everyone was
going SOMEONE has to pay for this little girls death but it didn't matter who or even if they were involved. You know, Christians for the Lions kind
of thing? How about the fact that the old minorities are now the majority and they are demanding special rights for themselves still? You know, just
the opposite of what the civil rights movement was about?

I realize that no one has all the answers even to their own core beliefs. I do not expect them to. Spouting PC also does not cut it. When giving a
description of a attacker skin color does matter even if it is not PC. If there is going to be any kind of compromise then the bs has to go away, the
assumptions have to go away, and the truth has to come out. That goes for conservatives as well. When someone says to me I won and you have to do
whatever I tell you to I tend to grin at them and say make me because if it does not make sense to me I will not do it no matter what happens. That is
a core belief. I have said that to police with a gun to my head. To bad he didn't pull the trigger right?

I almost agree. I just wonder how they would react if they in person were next to someone whose guts were hanging out versus just seeing it on TV.
What most civilians do not get is that the greatest threat to war is those that have been in one, not those that have seen it on TV. Are they REALLY
desensitised or do they merely think they are?

Originally posted by kaylaluv
GREAT commentary by Rachel. IMHO, she is the smartest person they have on MSNBC. .

MSNBC has no smart people. Rachel included. She said nothing constructive. She just parrotted a bunch of left wing rhetoric and she stereotyped.
It was really, really pathetic and not constructive at all.

Originally posted by KeliOnyx
she is giving you undisputed empirical fact. The people that are dividing the country are not the ones presenting the facts, ?

No she isn't giving undisputed empirical fact.
And yes .. she's part of the dividing problem in the country.

If those on the Republican side want to end the divisiveness, they need to start by disavowing Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Donald Trump, Bill
O'Reilly, and all the other low information, highly paid morons that are clogging up the airwaves with anger, hatred and misinformation. Until then,
you stand no hope of ending the division. I'm all for freedom of speech but give these plagues a soapbox in the local park, not a microphone on the
public airwaves.

This country is divided exactly down the middle, and incredibly, over half believe in a fairy tale written 2000 years ago by a group of people who had
never seen a map of the world, thought it was flat if they thought about it at all, did not understand disease, the weather or the stars and needed to
invent a god to explain these scary things, nor anything scientific (the word and the very idea hadn't even been invented yet!), and who rarely
traveled more than a few dozen miles from their place of birth. A religion borne of ignorant peasants is still controlling the majority's thought
process two millennia later... Just because you can't explain the origin of the universe, doesn't mean you get to make up stories to explain it.
The rational person tries to figure it out piecemeal, with continued education and scientifically and over time, not with fantasies and imaginary
friends.

When everyone starts to realize religion is bunk perpetrated on the masses as a power and money issue, you will start to end the divisiveness and
start working from a reality-based rational thought process which in the end is how our problems will get solved. With rational thought, people...
which side now is displaying just a modicum of more rational thought? It's not the Kolob-believing Mormons, that's for sure, nor is it the
politically powerful Catholic church.

Rachel is right; the Republican party as it stands now is dead, dead, dead. Let's hope its decaying body stays buried where it belongs. Time for
the One-Book Wonders to start getting a real education.

One nutter on the right says something about this so she generalizes everyone thinking that way?

It may have been one nutter who said that, but there were multiple nutters who said similar things. Paul Ryan himself supported legislation that had
a "forcible" rape criteria. Mitt Romney endorsed the man who said rape is god's will and refused to pull his endorsement or advertisements for
him. The GOP leadership never condemned these remarks, they never aksed these people to step down because they don't represent them, and thousands
of people voted for these people, even though they still lost.

So I'm sorry, but it wasn't just one nutter, it was more of a theme that no one on the right really wanted to condemn.

IT WAS BOTH .. and there is a coverup.

Please define "cover up", what exactly did Obama "cover up"? Are you suggesting he secretly planned the attack? Are you saying he knew that this
attack would take place before it happened? Where is the cover up?

The only thing the Right is talking about are the words he decided to use while describing the attack. In case anyone is confused, that is not
illegal.

- They are outraged that he didn't say "terrorist attack" instead he said "act of terror", and yes, it was about this
attack, not the 9/11 WTC attack
- They are outraged that he suggested the attack may be linked to the multiple protests that were taking place in the area due to an anti-islamic
video (and this is a fact, there were other protests going on in the area due to the video.
-They are outraged about a "Stand Down" order that there is no proof was ever issued.
-They are outraged that a request for a DC-3 airplane was denied to be given to the embassy in Tripoli, how that would prevent an attack in the
Consulate in Benghazi, they don't even try to explain.

So, what is the "cover up"? I would love to see some deatils.

Not true.

Yes, true. No one has had their guns taken away from them.

More people have guns now than they did before Obama. Obama has not introduced one piece of anti-gun legislation.

What makes you say that this isn't true? Who had their guns taken away?

yes they have. SCOTUS says Obamacare is a tax .. and it'll cost us all.

No, the SCOTUS actually said the penalty for not purchasing insurance is administered as a tax through the tax code, and therefore the government is
within the Constitution to do so.

And no, it won't "cost us all". I'm sorry, but that is not a fact.

16 Trillion is 'dropping'?? Where the hell did this idiot go to school?

I believe that you don't understand the difference between the "DEFICIT" and the "DEBT".

Maybe you should get your own facts straight before calling people idiots.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
The reality is that the Right often seems more interested in stubbornly arguing about what the truth is - in the face of all facts and evidence
- rather than finding the bipartisan solutions our country needs to be productive and competitive in the 21st Century.

It's as simple as that and her editorial merely highlights that sad fact.

Though I thought the intro to the show last night was better - less divisive.

Interesting that it is only "the Right" that is the problem.
The points being made are not - "work together", but rather - "do what the Left (or - to pander to the prevailing sensibilities of this thread -
"Moderates") KNOWS BY EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE" should be done.
The Left/(Moderate) answer is - "more government", "more taxes", "more regulation", and strict adherence to political correctness in all
thought, text, speech and action (Newspeak anyone?).
The Right/(Capitalistic) view is - "less government", "less tax", "less regulation", and freedom of thought, text, speech and...personal
responsibility.
These views are diametrically/diabolically opposed.
Yet...an almost 50/50 split of the nation's vote somehow translates to - "It's a referendum against the GOP - the Right - Conservative
views...&...The Conservatives will never win another election!".
I am probably as Non-Conservative as any "Liberal" in this thread... But most of what I've read (so far) is little more than gibberish.

I had no idea the GOP holds the keys to free thinking.
Must be why all those musicians directors actors and poets are Republican.

The referendum was quite real. It shows a trend. The white male vote
isn't the power house it used to be. Even with FOX news and AM radios everywhere
spewing nonsense about socialism black panthers and sharia law.

The right cannot be the party of "Papers Please if you're brown. (and president btw )
Or Make health choices for women or legislate gays as second class citizens and win.
Those days are gone. That's the referendum.
And Obama won by 3 million plus votes 51/49. and will end up with 332 electoral votes.
Even with the economy struggling,people know whose blocking bills in the House of Reps now as well.

In two years their will another referendum with the TEA PARTY's name written all over it.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
GREAT commentary by Rachel. IMHO, she is the smartest person they have on MSNBC. .

MSNBC has no smart people. Rachel included. She said nothing constructive. She just parrotted a bunch of left wing rhetoric and she stereotyped.
It was really, really pathetic and not constructive at all.

Originally posted by KeliOnyx
she is giving you undisputed empirical fact. The people that are dividing the country are not the ones presenting the facts, ?

No she isn't giving undisputed empirical fact.
And yes .. she's part of the dividing problem in the country.

She was actually parroting GOP's entire political playbook for the last 4 years -

The GOP (you included) need to stop lying to yourselves.

Everything you guys sell to the larger group is distorted and twisted to death.

Including ED drugs. I haven't yet heard a single man howling in rage and despair that he has to pay for another man's Viagra or Cialis, or that they
get those drugs for free while we have a co-pay for birth control even if we have insurance.

Well that is a drug for a medical problem...the ability to get pregnant is not a medical problem..may be social one...

I pay co-pays on everything, but this bill is...

But now all insurance policies will be required to cover new preventive care without charging women anything out of pocket.

There is a lot of other preventive care out there too, should it all be free for everyone? It is not cheap BTW...

What would be cool is for this women that needs all this free "or she can't eat" as Harry Reid put it, to actually get a job that lets her afford any
of this and what ever else through either co-pays or something like using rubbers to actually just buy them out of pocket...

Don't think the President is really focused on jobs though...well maybe a Government job

Not all Republicans are religious... I'm not. I believe in a God, but I think the church has got it very wrong.
If we get rid of all the Republican talking heads... Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Gallagher, etc,., then the same should apply to Maddow, Matthews,
Olberman, etc... Just keep Carville, that man cracks me up!

Fiscal conservatives have practically no choice when it comes to political parties other than the Republicans. Right now, we have no strongly viable
3rd party... believe me, if we did, if Ron Paul or Gary Johnson had a truly legitimate shot, that's where my vote would have been.

Democrats like to spend too much money in my opinion. I understand the human desire for us to take care of one another, and we most surely can, but we
have to do so carefully and make sacrifices where they are needed (and no, not human ones

)

Can we cut the military budget? Absolutely! But the cuts MUST be targeted to be of maximum effect and not place our forces at a disadvantage. I am for
a high-tech, high speed, real-time information gathering force that can be deployed surgically anywhere they are needed (IE, truly defending American
interests and freedoms and not war-profiteering) and with the proper amount of firepower, training, and moral compass to do only what the mission
requires and harm no civilians.

I want a country that espouses both individual freedoms AND personal accountability. Let me be me, and I'll let you be you. If you break a law, make
the appropriate ammends. If I want to be left alone and I am hurting no one and breaking no laws, please let me be. (IE, Ruby Ridge).

However, I think most of this is a pipedream. Simply too many perspectives and 'my way or the highway' thinkers out there.

Please define "cover up", what exactly did Obama "cover up"? Are you suggesting he secretly planned the attack? Are you saying he knew that this
attack would take place before it happened? Where is the cover up?

The cover-up was that they blamed a video and mob rule since an actual terrorist attack would not look good so close to the election. Even though they
knew in the first hour... The failure was to not support them even after multi requests, the narcissistic part would be to believe that no one would
do something on 911 since the President is so well loved in the Middle East and his foreign policies are doing so well.

Originally posted by Dreine
Not all Republicans are religious... I'm not. I believe in a God, but I think the church has got it very wrong.
If we get rid of all the Republican talking heads... Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Gallagher, etc,., then the same should apply to Maddow, Matthews,
Olberman, etc... Just keep Carville, that man cracks me up!

Fiscal conservatives have practically no choice when it comes to political parties other than the Republicans. Right now, we have no strongly viable
3rd party... believe me, if we did, if Ron Paul or Gary Johnson had a truly legitimate shot, that's where my vote would have been.

Democrats like to spend too much money in my opinion. I understand the human desire for us to take care of one another, and we most surely can, but we
have to do so carefully and make sacrifices where they are needed (and no, not human ones

)

Can we cut the military budget? Absolutely! But the cuts MUST be targeted to be of maximum effect and not place our forces at a disadvantage. I am for
a high-tech, high speed, real-time information gathering force that can be deployed surgically anywhere they are needed (IE, truly defending American
interests and freedoms and not war-profiteering) and with the proper amount of firepower, training, and moral compass to do only what the mission
requires and harm no civilians.

I want a country that espouses both individual freedoms AND personal accountability. Let me be me, and I'll let you be you. If you break a law, make
the appropriate ammends. If I want to be left alone and I am hurting no one and breaking no laws, please let me be. (IE, Ruby Ridge).

However, I think most of this is a pipedream. Simply too many perspectives and 'my way or the highway' thinkers out there.

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