I first met Tyler several years ago. He was a GRS reader who dropped me a line to see if I'd meet him for dinner. I said “yes” — as I almost always do. Now, several years later, Tyler runs a successful blog of his own. It was fun to see his readers come out to support him.

Note: I've never hosted a meetup for GRS readers, but the more of these I attend for other blogs, the more fun I think it would be for us to have some gatherings of our own. What do you think? Whenever I visit a new city — Denver in September, for instance, and Atlanta in October — we could gather to share stories and ideas.

After giving us a chance to chat, Tyler asked us to break into small groups, to work together to define the word freedom. “What does freedom mean to you?” he asked.

What is Freedom?
I was sitting with Tammy and Logan (they of the tiny house) and with our friend Michelle, who also lives in a tiny house. We brainstormed ideas. One obvious answer was that, in many ways, money equals freedom. When you have money, you have more options. Or, more precisely, when you have no debt, when you spend less than you earn, then you have more options.

But freedom is more than money, of course.

“To me, freedom means being able to what you want, when you want,” I said. We talked about that for a bit. We talked again about how money makes this more likely.

“But I think to be free,” said Michelle, “you have to somehow be aware of what your options are. You have to be conscious that you're making choices that reflect your values, choices that allow you to do what you want, when you want.”

“Fair enough,” I said.

After more discussion, we realized that each person at our table already felt very, very free. None of us worries about money: I've experienced a windfall; Tammy and Logan and Michelle have intentionally minimized their expenses so that money is no longer a stressor. We each do work we're passionate about. We have good friends, we have purpose. We've adopted lifestyles that give us freedom, or at least a sense of it.

“I think a lot of feeling free comes down to shifting priorities,” Tammy said. “It means choosing to relate to money, and other parts of life, in ways that others don't.” Tammy wasn't saying that she thinks we're better than anyone else — far from it! — but that in order to obtain this feeling of freedom, we've each made choices that we like but others might not. Such as living in small spaces. (If I'm doing my math right, the four of us live in three separate spaces that combine to total 985 square feet. My apartment is the bulk of that.)

Conquering Fear
Tyler took some more time to speak with his readers. He talked about his own ideas of freedom. “The core of freedom is conquering fear,” Tyler said. “It can be scary. We want to draw cartoons, or climb mountains, or do whatever makes us happy. But often, people are afraid of freedom because with freedom comes risk. When you choose freedom, you make choices for yourself. Nobody else makes them for you. And when you make choices for yourself, the responsibility — or the blame — for the outcome rests with you.”

At our table, we talked about the relationship between freedom and power.

“In some ways, freedom and power are interchangeable,” Logan said. “When you have freedom, you have power. Not like you have authority or control over other people, but you have power over your own life.”

“Here's a thought,” I said. “If you're lucky enough to be free, do you have an obligation to help others who aren't free? To give them this power too? And there really is an obligation, then doesn't that mean you're not actually free?”

“It's like a paradox!” Tammy said.

“The minute you choose to do what you really want to do, it's a different kind of life.” — R. Buckminster Fuller

The Limits of Self-Determination
But here's the rub: Even if you're free, even if you have power over your own life, bad things happen. You might get struck by a car. You might have a stroke. Your country might experience hyperinflation. You're only free to the extent that you can control life. And beyond a certain point, life is out of your hands. (Though, again, the more money you have, the less impact these events have on you. Another argument for a fat emergency fund!)

What's more, as free as you might be, you only have that freedom because your environment allows you to have it. If you lived elsewhere, or elsewhen, you might not be able to do what you want to do, when you want to do it. You might not have the freedom you do now.

Because of this, and because I'm fortunate to be very free myself, I'm finally starting to think of other people. I feel called to help others move closer to this ideal, to give them find the power to do what they want, when they want.

Money and Freedom
Money can't buy happiness, it can't buy love, and it can't buy freedom either. But money does make obtaining these goals much, much easier. When you have money, you don't have to worry about the basics. To re-visit Psychology 101, money helps you build the base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

When you have money, you're able to take care of your physiological needs, like finding food and water. You're also able to better take care of your body and your belongings, able to afford a safe place to sleep. Because money makes it easier to have these things, it further grants you the freedom to focus on higher parts of the hierarchy, such as self-esteem, confidence, and achievement. If you worried each day about how you were going to feed yourself and your family, you wouldn't have time to pursue these higher aims. You wouldn't have the freedom to do so.

But here's the thing: I don't think money does buy freedom if the person with the money becomes obsessed with protecting it or with obtaining more. Money is a tool. It's useful only insofar as it helps you achieve your goals.

An old friend contacted me by Facebook the other day. We're going to get together for coffee soon. (Where “coffee” is a euphemism for “any other drink because J.D. doesn't like coffee”.) During our conversation, my friend asked, “So what do you do now that you sold your web site? Do you not work? Do you just go to the gym and travel the world?”

Ha. I wish. I feel like I'm busier than I've ever been. But to tell the truth, I'm busy in a different way. In the past, I was busy, but I was busy doing things that other people wanted. Now, I do things that I want. Most of the time, even my work feels like play.

I'm a happy man. I have a good life. I'm able to do what I want, when I want. This isn't because I've bought my freedom and my happiness, but there's no question that having savings, eliminating debt, and living below my means has given me peace of mind, has allowed me to take risks that I might have otherwise avoided.

In 2006, J.D. founded Get Rich Slowly to document his quest to get out of debt. Over time, he learned how to save and how to invest. Today, he's managed to reach early retirement! He wants to help you master your money — and your life. No scams. No gimmicks. Just smart money advice to help you reach your goals.

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There are 124 reader responses to "Can Money Buy Freedom?".

Sarasays

Count me in for Atlanta!

Also, I was thinking about your use of the term “windfall” to describe your earnings from the sale of this blog. Maybe it’s because I’ve been working straight through the night, and so English no longer makes any sense to me, but I don’t think that’s the right word. It’s not that you’ve experienced “an unexpected gain,” but rather you have traded your asset for cash. Before you had awesome blog plus some debt plus some savings; now you have awesome savings. :-)

I am totally in for an Atlanta meet up and have an idea of where that would be “free” ita a reataurant / bar with large rooms in the back each person only pays their own bill. But there is no charge for the “space”

Freedom = choices. No, money doesn’t “buy” freedom, but it sure does open the door for opportunities and choices. I will agree with the statement that “Freedom is being able to do what you want, when you want” because that means I understand my obligations and responsibilities to others and can now make decisions that address my wants.

I think there are two different kinds of freedom. There’s “freedom FROM” and “freedom FOR”. “Freedom FROM” refers to having no obligations that are forced on you by others that impede your rights. “Freedom FOR” refers to possessing yourself enough to commit yourself to whatever you choose.

So for example, it seems to me that a lot of people in my country, the USA, look at marriage as an impediment to freedom. It often places obligations on them they think they haven’t chosen, and it frequently requires them to choose to serve someone else’s desires and needs above their own. But “freedom” doesn’t merely mean getting to “do what you want when you want”. It means being able to freely make choices in the present to put yourself at the service of something or someone else in the future. If you made the choice freely in the past, honoring that choice isn’t a negation of your freedom. It’s a choice to honor the self-determining decisions you’ve been able to make for a long time.

The ability to “do what you want when you want” is more closely akin to “autonomy” than “freedom”. One who has freedom may choose to bind himself to something or someone, and virtue is in honoring that commitment.

My philosophy teacher introduced us to “freedom from” versus “freedom to” in high school and it’s always been an interesting way to look at issues. I’m kind of sick of my married friends assuming I have so much “freedom” because I’m single. I’ve learned the hard way that it’s good to have commitments. :)

I think it’s important that you point out the difference between freedom and autonomy. There is a certain amount of security in having a loving supportive relationship that gives you freedom to do new things too. For instance, recently my husband quit his job, without a new one lined up. It was the right thing for his personal health, but without knowing that I could take care of things both financially, and “around the house” if he had to say work elsewhere for 6mo, was defintly freeing. It freed him from a very bad situation where he was able to take a step back and find something different and more fufilling to do. This doesn’t have to be a spouse – it could be the network of friends and family that support a person trying to leave a bad relationship. It seems that sometimes in the good ol USA we like to paint our relationships as ‘obligations’ things we’re required to ‘attend to’ but in many cases they can provide the security to actual take risks and be free.

Reminds me of a quote I jotted down once from a Starbucks cup:
The irony of commitment is that it’s deeply liberating – in work, in play, in love. The act frees you from the tyranny of your internal critic, from the fear that likes to dress itself up and parade around as rational hesitation. To commit is to remove your head as the barrier to your life.

I’m only 26 years old, but this post strikes me as remarkably immature.

“The ability to do what you want, when you want?” I’m sorry, but who has that? Only people with no responsibilities, no commitments, no community, no one to think about but themselves.

Lindsay very generously called this idea “autonomy” rather than “freedom.” I would call it “being a baby.” This is what children want.

Do you honestly wish you could do no work, and travel all day, every day? As a lifestyle? It might be fun, but what purpose would you serve? What contribution would you be making to the world?

I recommend that if you’re discussing freedom on a PF blog, you stick to financial freedom, and not the other kind.

If you really want to get into the idea of freedom as we Americans claim to have, then you’re talking about freedom from oppression. That’s it. That’s all it’s meant to be. The idea that we should all be striving toward some kind of “freedom” where we are accountable to no one is… frightening to me.

I think you’re missing the point. The freedom to do what you want when you want does not equate to a life of no work and no purpose. That may be what some people think they want, but most people don’t really want that, or would quickly get bored with it if they somehow achieved it.

The freedom to do what you want, when you want means not having to work a job you don’t enjoy, or to spend time on things that you don’t want to do just because you have to for financial reasons. Having that freedom allows you to volunteer your time doing things for others, or to do a job that may not pay the bills, but it makes you very happy. It can allow you to travel or to pursue hobbies. If you can’t see the purpose in living a life like that, then you probably need to find a different blog to read.

That’s what freedom buys you. It seems to me that when people are debt-free and have savings they can do what they want.

They can quit jobs they hate, they can pick jobs they love, they can choose to travel, they can choose how they will spend their time. They can choose to have a family or not to.

JD quit a job that he hated. He’s not the only one, plenty of people do that when they are debt free. Its actually quite common. A lot of mothers have started mommy blogs and quit their regular jobs once the blogs have started making money.

I’m only a little older than you, just turned 29 in January but I’m stuck in a job that I hate because I don’t have a college degree. Now if I had more savings and a degree then I could quit that job, I could spend time researching fields, and I could travel.

Its astounding what a little money saved up can do to your life. Anyway I’m using the money from this job that I hate to go back to college and finish my degree. Once that is done I will have more options.

Great post! I have always used Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs to assess how I am doing in a moment of anxiety or panic. If my basic foundation of needs is being met, I know that although the stress may feel phsycial, I am not having to address that need… It always has lent a brief and handy insight to where I am at any particular moment.

Maslow’s triangle is a mental health tool that often can be used to asses anxiety and stress. If we have a proper foundation, then we always will have a great base that allows us to be free and feel in power of our own decisions!

Money can help with this, but often we have to also remember that our emotional, physical, and behavioral states are necessary to climbing up the triangle and meeting our own needs. Especially when we get near the top two. Money can buy you a foundation, but remember, your honesty and service to others creates self-esteem and self-actualization.

freedom really can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. it helps to have an idea of what your ideal ‘free” life would be like and then set that as your goal. the old dream of retiring at 65 and then doing the things in life you want to do no longer seems attractive to me. Some people might be all about that, but the next generation is slowly realizing that life is best enjoyed when you have the health to enjoy it!

Many people who “retire” choose to keep working because they want to. I try to think in terms of “financial freedom” rather than “retirement”

I agree that you shouldn’t have to wait until retirement to do things you want — like volunteering, traveling, spending more time with friends and family. However, I’ve seen too many people use “carpe diem” as an excuse to spend now and pay later, or saving for retirement as a reason to work themselves to the point of burnout now.

Yes. That used to be me (the ‘carpe diem, pay tomorrow’) type. The thing is that working for “retirement” at 65 when you’re in your 20s just doesn’t seem too rational– honestly, it’s a very unattractive plan for young people. Sports car now? Or nursing home tomorrow? Sports car? Or nursing home? That’s a no-brainer.

The idea of financial independence is a whole lot more motivating to me than “retirement”; and it’s what has finally made me start saving. Oh yeah, and I’m not in my 20s anymore ha ha ha–now I wish I had saved instead of racking up debts!

But yes, financial independence is the right concept, and it’s attractive at any age.

We’ve been so inundated with images from AARP et al of the baby boomer “retiree” for whom 65 is the new 45…

But the reality is that for most of us now in prime working age, there will be no “retirement” to freedom, but a real “retirement” from active duty when we can no longer physically care for ourselves.

My father got out as early as he possibly could, retired to freedom in a small town, with generous pension, after a life of civil service (and while my mother, also a civil servant, was still gainfully employed) and ability to invest in rental real estate when the market was small (rural under 40k small), and now enjoys endless days on the boat at 66.

My father in law, after a life playing pay-the-rent, child support &-food bill in a big big city was fired from his 20 year+ private sector job with a foreign business on his 70th birthday after having been the top salesman for the year (and preceding years); and, the IRS came for him to the tune of 50k when he was 72 because his income dropped so suddenly and they wanted to know where it went–he is having to prove that he is no longer employed nor has hidden assets. Until he got legal intervention, they were taking 600 of his 800 soc. sec. Now they take 200 while the audit is in process. We pay their rent, setting up our own potential to follow their footsteps. In the city, we see this story constantly played out amongst our (middle aged) friends. No sooner is the emergency fund funded, than an emergency is provided for those funds.

Two bouts with cancer and added chronic health/heart problems of his wife have wiped out all savings even with insurance/medi. She was forced into early retirement at 55 with a token pension from a large airline’s bankruptcy restructuring and has been unable to find steady employment since. Ageism is rampant in this city. As first-generation immigrants, and life long city natives & dwellers, there is no support system outside of the northeast and without transportation or the ability, now, to get a driver’s license, they are stuck. There are no other step children or siblings; there are only other elderly relatives in the same boat.

He is unemployed and unemployable (no walmarts in this city), and has “been retired”.

All in all, an excellent argument in support of seeking “freedom from/to,” now. And remember, geographical freedom is just as important as age-related freedom. If you are going to starve or live on familial charity for a while until finding your path, it is much better to do it while young (ish) and strong.

People have been sold on the idea that one works towards “retirement” for the freedom…no, one works for the day when one can work no more because it will come. No one wants to spend the elder years wishing one had forgone chemo so the universe could cull you out sooner.

We’ve all heard the saying, “money can’t buy happiness;” and in light of that phrase, I really enjoyed this post. My girlfriend and I recently discussed what we would do if we won the lottery. After several minutes of fun, dreamy ideas, we started grappling with the idea of money bringing happiness and freedom. We questioned what money really does bring to the table. We came to similar conclusions as you JD, about money bringing needs like food and water, but after that it makes freedom and happiness only easier. For some people who find themselves rolling in dough it doesn’t bring freedom because they are consumed with protecting their money and questioning if their relationships are real or if men/women like them simply because of their money. So it can certainly bring unforeseen negative consequences, if a person isn’t prepared. We decided that money surely didn’t build our happy relationship and it won’t build a free and happy future for us… but like you said, JD, while money doesn’t guarantee freedom and therefore happiness, it can make obtaining those things a little easier!

I like to think that when I have money to cover all of my basic needs that I will have more freedom. Once debt has been paid and we are working on saving, there is a sense of freedom, because you can really do whatever you want with that money. Ideally we would be saving for retirement, but if we wanted we could go splurge on something we have always wanted but didnt feel that we could ever afford. ie the new mustang or anything! I have worked hard to get where I am at through school and to me excess money = freedom

the only thing that keeps you in a bad job is your own fear of dealing with all those things without a job…and I’ve never found (nor has many guest reader posts found) one of those monsters to be more terrible than staying somewhere that nibbled the soul in some way.

none of those reasons ever kept me in a place I had defined to myself as bad for me and while it has made some harrowing moments at times, I ain’t dead yet.

While Maslow’s hierarchy is very popular because it is simple, the fact is that it has not withstood the scrutiny of scientific inquiry. It’s great that you point this out. People can be altruistic regardless of their level on the hierarchy; naturally, it’s elitist to assume that one needs to be rich to be a good human being. If you have major credit card debt, no you shouldn’t be giving away money (it’s not yours, anyway!). But if you have no debt, you have a solid income, you have a decent (and growing) asset base, then it’s incumbent upon you as a human being to support others. While I have a strong locus of control, the fact is that we aren’t responsible for 100% of our success. Whether one got rich from selling widgets or having lots of people reads one’s blog, other people were generous in the first place. Being benevolent acknowledges this – and the potential for a fall from grace, too.

For me, money provides two things that may ultimately lead to “freedom” – flexibility and peace. It is freeing to have peace about money, to not worry whether or not you will be able to make the next bill. I’ve been there and done that, and it was the opposite of freedom. I was a slave to banks and credit card companies, and yes, even stuff. When I rid myself of the debt and the stuff, and the wanting for more stuff, it was only then that I began to feel free. The money then followed.

awesome post, and thanks for linking to your Power of Yes post. I needed to read that too.

After working with some teenagers over the weekend and finding that they sunk to their stereotypes, I was quite discouraged and wanted to quit. But I know there’s more to it and I want to dig deeper and keep saying yes to these kids.

Freedom is a state of mind. It has little to do with your situation, or your finances.

“The last of human freedoms – the ability to chose one’s attitude in a given set of circumstances.” ~ Viktor E. Frankl (Holocaust survivor)

When every imaginable freedom was taken away from Viktor, he still had the FREEDOM to chose his attitude about the situation, something no one could take away from him. THAT, to me, is the definition of freedom, and why I believe it has less to do with your situation than your attitude.

You could be absolutely filthy rich and not have the same “freedom” as a minimum wage worker. It’s a choice, a state of being. Freedom isn’t something you aspire to have, as it’s something each of can have right now if we just chose to be free.

I know it’s probably hard to wrap your mind around that, and i’m sure many people will disagree. That’s because we’ve focused so long on situational freedom rather than internal freedom.

I agree that being debt-free and having savings in the bank gives a person more choices and for me more choice does equal more freedom. But what Steven points out is real for me, as well. My essential freedom comes from an acceptance that I am not in control of my life. Letting go of the idea that my life is supposed to be a certain way, that I am entitled to have what I want when I want has been very liberating. Now I try to align myself with life instead of trying to adjust life to fit my desires. I go with the flow. This doesn’t mean that I am passive, but that I try to work with life instead of fighting against it. This also brings much peace and joy into my life. What good is freedom if it does not bring peace and joy?

Steven, thanks for quoting Frankl. I’ve actually been intending to read “Man’s Search for Meaning” again, but keep forgetting to pick up a copy. It was an influential book for me when I was in college. I’m curious to see how I feel about it now.

JD – Mans Search For Meaning is by far one of the best books I have read in years. Its an easy read too, something you can finish very quickly. Or possibly download as a podcast or audio book to listen to while you are walking.

This is something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately. I feel very free now that we don’t have to stress much about money (we have very steady and stable income, only mortgage debt, a very comfortable lifestyle) but my husband doesn’t feel free at all because he wants so much. He is unhappy because he wants everything (and now) and obviously we can’t have everything. Certainly brings home the point that freedom is often a shifting of priorities.

Defining freedom is an excellent exercise in sharpening one’s life vision and underlying financial goals.

Defining freedom other abstract terms, such as retirement, financial freedom, and happiness is an important skill for a life of meaning and purpose. I wrote a guest post here at GRS last year on the subject (and included the “Freedom From” vs “Freedom To” concepts):

I wrote my master’s thesis on examining your relationship with money as a way to know yourself. in my research, academic studies verified 2 important correlations between money and happiness:

1. generally one’s happiness increases if people in one’s life (friends, close family members, neighbors) are of similar or even lower standard of living. happiness decreases if a person is surrounded by people better off (or appearing to better off). the keeping up with joneses is stressful and makes one feel less than . . . while one may say “it doesn’t matter if I can’t keep up”, the truth is it wears heavily on most.

2. a nod to the basic hierarchy of needs – if most of the basic needs are met (in today’s world this includes more than just food and shelter as perceived needs), then any additional money one has or spends does not increase one’s level of happiness (or only does so by a slight amount). the study calculated about $50K as the base level for “basic needs being met”. the study is about 15 years old so would probably be a bit higher now.

for most all of us, a certain amount of money does by us the freedom to pursue the higher levels of the basic hierarchy of needs. when having the basic needs met, placing yourself among others that do not have more (or act like they have more by going into debt to live a certain lifestyle!) makes it easier to be free from the anxiety and low self-esteem that a keep up with joneses environment often produces.

We’re working hard to reach the Pinnacle Point that Dave Ramsey describes — the point where we have enough money that we can live on the interest and pursue the work that interests us apart from its earnings.

That’s the ultimate freedom for us and money is directly correlated to it.

Agreed. Freedom to me is when I have enough money (and “enough” will vary from person to person) that I can choose what work I want to do or if I want to work at all. If I HAVE to work or have to work a specific job/number of hours/make a specific salary, for whatever reason, then I’m not free.

This is another interesting post that has me thinking about some of the unfair underlying assumptions at GRS, and other “find your happiness”-type blogs. I have a 15 month old son at home, whom I love more than anything, and who has made me a very happy woman. But, by all of your definitions above, my “freedom” has been significantly reduced. No, I cannot do “whatever I want whenever I want” regardless of how much money I may or may not have. And it certainly has nothing to do with “fear” either. I live in in Colorado, but I’m not out climbing mountains on the weekends simply because of “fear”. It’s because I have responsibilities to my family. And it makes me sooo much happier to see my little boy out climbing on the playground than seeing a desolate mountain top by myself. Why is freedom the ultimate goal anyway? Why isn’t it love, or sense of purpose, or simply whatever makes you feel happy, blissful, and important, regardless of whether or not it is doing what you want to do whenever you want to do it?

Kate, it’s okay for different people to have different goals. No two of us are the same. And while it’s true that generally speaking, certain things will lead to increased happiness, that’s not true for every person in every case.

It’s interesting to note (as another commenter did) that sometimes having commitments and obligations can be perceived as liberating. So can having structure. For some people, these things free the mind and lead to peace and happiness. There’s nothing wrong with this in any way. But for others, like me, freedom and happiness come from a lack of structure, from having infinite possibilities.

I think it’s this vast variety of personalities and preferences that makes life interesting. :)

But aren’t you free when you can choose this? Choose to be with your child (I did, too!), and free to turn away from a society that insists that you find your “freedom” in another’s definition, whether it is as in you aren’t free because of your attachment to your child, or as in you are not free because you do not have a job to provide you with that definition of freedom.

yes, dont you see – you’re free to choose to be with your child – it seems like that is what you really want to do
“And it makes me sooo much happier to see my little boy out climbing on the playground than seeing a desolate mountain top by myself. Why is freedom the ultimate goal anyway”
Because some people aren’t even free to chose to spend their time with their kids on the playground – they feel like slaves to their jobs – and losing that precious time

This is all very true. And we do, actually, take the kiddo with us on mountain climbs in the summer. I was being metaphorical. :)

I guess the thing that gets my goat is the published concept that true happiness comes from doing “what you want” and if you’re not doing exactly what you want at any given moment it’s only out of your own fear and unwillingness. When, in reality, being responsible usually means you’re NOT doing what you want. You’re doing what needs to get done, and OCCASIONALLY, you get to do what you want.

I see this as a lifestyle of giving and I feel like it is often looked-down on here at GRS. Rather than save and plan for some trip or event that would only make me happy, I choose to give up some of my freedom and money and time to make others (my son, my husband, my family) happy as well. Yes, JD, these are the differences that make us all unique. But I wish I wasn’t lumped in with some imaginary group of people who are “too scared” or going through life “unconsciously” or “unaware of my options.”

Kate, thank you! You said it better than I could. I think Roth is wrong here and in so many areas when life comes up.

Everyone has infinite possibilities or finite ones, depending on how you look at it. No one is totally free. We live in communities. We have bonds regardless of whether we want. But lives with responsibilities, love and other ties that bind are just as full of infinite possibilities as those who live without such ties. Everyone’s life has structure. You’re lying if you say your life doesn’t.

The message of freedom and personal choice that is promoted in lifestyle design blogs is basically a way to market the bloggers’ lives. That in turn makes them money but I’ve never been found it to be particularly insightful, subtle or honest. In my experience it is a carefully selected set of personal experiences that speak to a particular narrative which is meant to showcase the amazing appeal of their lives. No different that car commercial that sells adventure with an SUV. It’s about marketing rather than a real honest discussion of the realities of life and the options we may or may not have.

If Roth really wanted to explore freedom in the workplace he could have canvassed a variety of self-employed and happily employed people who do a variety of things. All he’s done is passed off armchair philosophizing with friends as something insightful. Three or four bloggers isn’t a good cross section to discuss freedom in any real or profound way.

I’m friends with lots of self employed people. Most love their jobs and are proud of their accomplishments. (And they should be!) Because I am their friends I see the downsides. I see the rough parts. I see the parts I might hate (even if they don’t mind them). I know there is ill along with the good. No one loves their life all the time.

Oh, burn! I didn’t really want to comment about the philosophy-light approach of today’s post but here it was dished out both barrels.

One thing I’ve noticed is that whenever “Roth” (lolcopter) grapples with immaturity somehow the Tiny House people are around him. Why is that? Are they contagious?

JD, bro, you’ve been schooled here by a bunch of smart ladies. “Freedom to me means having infinite possibilities” or whatever it was you said above is just a bunch of Peter Pan talk. Of course, everyone is entitled to follow their own path, but the “freedom” of a little boy with an endless supply of toys was already depicted in a Richard Pryor movie. Watch it.

Okay dude, growing up in public is tough, like the life of child actors, but I hope you work out your issues quickly and catch up.

And so that you don’t make an ass of yourself all alone here, let me share in the embarrassment with some personal information:

All my life I was a serial monogamist. I jumped from girlfriend to girlfriend, always seeking whatever next thrill or experience or what not. I even cheated a few times, because, I don’t know, I couldn’t make up my mind, and I thought I was being “honest” with myself. I had “freedom”, but I was miserable and unhappy–I was a restless dilettante and I suffered from depression.

I was clever enough to seek therapy instead of internet gurus, so after several years of arguing with a great shrink I somehow “matured” and came to the point where I was utterly fed up with the single life and ready to marry.

The freedom I enjoy sharing my time with the woman who is now my family is infinitely more fulfilling than the stupid chasing of “infinite possibilities” that had me lost in early times.

So yeah, I’ve been where you are, and it sucked. After the party comes always the hangover, and it’s more depressing every time.

Now this isn’t necessarily about women. It can be about anything that offers us the possibility of fulfillment. I had career “issues” as well which are too long to describe after 9pm. Maybe another time.

Okay, now hurry up and go read Peer Gynt. Ibsen has more to teach you about the human condition than the owners of tiny houses.

It seems to me that you did whatever you wanted by choosing to have a family. Everyone happens to find peace and happiness through different paths. What about the wife and mother who chooses to quit her job so she can stay at home?

Or the mother who chooses to go back to work? or the mother who chooses to start an online business from home to be with her kids? Not everyone wants kids, not everyone wants to live in the suburbs. What’s wrong with chasing what makes you happy? You clearly chased what made you happy, which was to start a family.

Other people should have the freedom to chase what makes them happy. I don’t see why you think this is looked down on GRS, since the message seems to be do what works for you. How can you judge what will make others happy?

As for lifestyle bloggers, well it depends, I do hate the ones that look down on people who have chosen traditional paths. I quit reading their blogs because they sounded a bit too arrogant.

I used to read Everett Bogue’s minimalist blog but I quit that. He looked down on anyone that chose to work a corporate job and had chosen a traditional life. I love to travel but I also like having a home to come to.

I don’t want to be constantly on the go traveling, its nice to have a home and to live in a city that I’m familiar with. I don’t have kids but my bf and I do want to move into a house, not a big one, but larger than an apartment would be nice.

Just because we don’t have kids doesn’t mean we’re lonely. Or that there is something wrong with choosing an unconventional path. But I do think in some ways the lifestyle bloggers do speak to the people that are stuck in an unhappy marriage (some people have horrible spouses), or who hate living in the suburbs so to those people the lifestyle bloggers represent freedom.

Although I do think that sometimes the lifestyle bloggers push their books on minimalism too much. I don’t need every other post on a lifestyle blog to remind me that they have a book on minimalism, and minimalism is a limited topic, it becomes too repetitive after certain things have been said and done.

And yes money can buy freedom, with enough savings and being debt-free even for people with families. Lots of moms have managed to stay at home because they are debt free and have savings. Parents have retired early and sent their kids to college. Parents quit jobs and start jobs they love that provide better for their family.

I know what you mean, Kate C, but I think it’s just a matter of where a person is in life. JD is a single guy without kids. His perception of freedom is going to be very different from yours or mine.

I consider it freedom to know if one of my kids is struggling with something, we don’t have to rely simply on ourselves or the school or a particular coach to get the concept across, we can afford to pursue expert advice and private coaching. It’s freedom to be able to pick up some takeout after an exasperating day instead of having to go home and make dinner for hungry kids. It’s freedom to spend Saturdays at our kids’ sports activities because we can pay somebody else to do our yard work.

Some people wouldn’t think of any of those things as freedom, but we do.

Yep, you’re absolutely right, everybody idea of freedom is different. It would be nice if they were all celebrated equally as well. It seems some of these GRS stories have a subtle undertone that being responsible – doing what you have to rather than want to – is a terrible thing that should be rectified immediately. Perhaps I’m being sensitive.

It’s quotes like these: “The core of freedom is conquering fear,” Tyler said. “It can be scary. We want to draw cartoons, or climb mountains, or do whatever makes us happy. But often, people are afraid of freedom because with freedom comes risk.”

Or, perhaps we want to be drawing cartoons but kids are hungry or have to be driven around or we have actual other responsibilities in our lives. I don’t think I’m afraid of freedom. I think I’d rather give up my freedom and see those around me happier for it.

Yup – and I think your last sentence shows why JD’s defense that “we’re all different” is problematic.

You ARE giving up freedom for the sake of your kids. To say that your definition of freedom is just different than JD’s, or that you define freedom by “choosing to be with your kids,” is totally disingenuous.

You have decided that your love for your kids is more important than your personal freedom. Thank god you – and most other parents – make that decision.

I live in Japan right now, so I’m experiencing a different ethical culture. Responsibility to the group is seen as MUCH more exalted than pursuing one’s own desires. I think there’s a lot to be said for that standpoint.

Like some other commenters, I have gotten tired of hearing all these lifestyle bloggers talk about the pursuit of their own happiness/independence/freedom as if that’s what’s going to make a better world.

Having spent most of my adult life on the negative side of things when it comes to money and finances for one reason or another, its easy to idealize what having money means, or can mean to me. A quality of life that I only read about it here on GRS, other blogs and in general. A quality of life that many of my friends freely enjoy, many without having experienced the opposite.

Looking at the Maslow’s hierarchy of needs chart, I’ve found myself at every tier at some point of my life regardless of my financial situation, but lately I’ve been in a red (safety) zone for quite a while. Love/Belonging is a goal, my dream, but it does require money in one way or another which brings me back to Safety. Its difficult when you’re not employed, not in the best of health, etc. Its a catch-22 for me…

I totally know where you’re coming from, Carla. I’m in the exact same boat (except that I don’t think I’ve even hit all the tiers at any point in my life). But yeah, I’m hovering between the yellow and the red in the hierarchy, and have been for the last seven years. Sigh.

this post and comments are really inspiring to me, i also want the freedom to do what i want and the freedom from stressing about money. i’m struggling tho to make frugal living, consuming less, focussing on experience rather than items etc.. part of what i truly ‘want’. i feel those priorities (frugal living) etc.. are more thrust upon me as a result of my situation (basic job, middle-low wage, expensive city). what have you done, or what have others done to really, truly embrace these new values. i would like to feel happy couponing, thrifting, tiny house…. i guess in a nutshell i am having a hard time letting go of the modern conveniences and luxuries of life.

Freedom can mean different things to different people but financial freedom can be sure to come near the top of a lot of people’s lists. Having your finance in order can free you up to do things you’ve wanted to do for a long time such as, take that holiday you’ve been promising yourself.

I live on a borderline poverty level income, and I don’t ask for much in life. I can’t think of much “stuff” I would want to buy if I had the money.

But I do crave peace, quiet, and solitude, and I cannot get any of these things. I rent a room in an old, small, crowded house. Currently there are four others, only onne of whom is working, and she is in the process of buying a house, so she will move out when her deal closes.

The others in the house are drunks, druggies, and bums on SSI, who seem to have no life outside the house. The drunk is volatile and blows up a lot; he’s been unemployed for perhaps four years and is close to retirement age thus is unlikely to become re-employed. As a drunk, his idea of getting out of the house is to run to the liquor store to buy another half gallon (1.5 liter, actually, which lasts one or two days.)

Since nobody goes out – only the working woman has to get up in the morning and go to work – they like to just hang out and party down, man. It is SO NOISY and drives me nuts.

Every bedroom is directly above, below, or next to the living room, where the drunk parks himself all day long. (I avoid the common areas as much as possible, I prepare food in my room on a hot plate, I use public restrooms, and shower in the wee hours when everyone else is finally sleeping.)

All day long (and much of the night) I have to put up with yak yak yak (drunk’s friends come to visit since he never goes to their place), stomp stomp stomp (humans and big dog on hardwood floor), woof woof woof (dog barking), yell yell yell (drunk telling dog to shut up), cough cough cough hack retch belch (drunk smoker coughing, hacking, retching, and belching.)

And the noisy refrigerator ice dispenser is used day and night to keep the drinks cold.

If I had any additional money I would not buy anything, I would pay for a place that meet at least one of my wants.

Terry, that sounds stressful and horrible. It sounds like you don’t have much money, but I wonder if you’d do better renting a room in a home? You sound like an ideal housemate for the right person. I hope you can make some changes to get out of that situation!

Terry, Consider tapping into the hidden rental market. Do you know a realtor(s) in your area? They always know about the hidden gems for rentals too. Lot’s of home owners have lower levels, etc that they rent out to select people. They never advertise but rely on referrals from realtors and friends. The rents are usually cheaper too because they are not relying so heavily on rental income.

Once you leave (or before you leave), you should consider writing a novel about your experiences.

Your post reminded me of what I loved about the “kitchen sink realism” of a writer like Charles Bukowski. You have a knack for descriptive detail… it would be a shame to not put that to use (and make money by selling the stories on Amazon). I’d buy them.

Thanks, I’m flattered, sorta. Bukowski is in some pretty lofty territory. But yeah, I’ve got all sorts of material. Lots of stuff I didn’t work into my original post because it was more than long enough as it was.

Like the bits about how I moved in when my previous rented room (the house, of course) was foreclosed. And how I moved into the cheapest place I could find. (Cheapest in terms of total move-in cost, because I didn’t find any other places I could afford to move into except those rock-bottom fleabag hotel/motel rooms which are cheap to move into because you’re paying by the week but difficult to escape on a poverty level income.)

The bit about how the landlord is 2,000 miles away working on an oil rig so the drunk (remember him?) was “managing” the property by renting the whole house and then (sub)renting out the spare rooms, at a markup that allowed him to live in the house for free.

And the bit about how a woman moved in with the drunk several weeks after I moved in. She used to be a druggie but went through rehab. She gave up drugs and took up alcohol. She’s on SSI so she never has to get up in the morning and go to work either. Two drunks living together, they would get up in the morning, start drinking, then start fighting.

About every third day, by evening either she would storm out of the house and leave or he would kick her out. They’ve both spent weekends cooling off in jail on domestic violence charges.

This went on for about 18 months, finally they decided they just couldn’t live together.

She’s shrill and louder than the others.

Then there’s the bit about how another woman in the house had a restraining order against the drunk, forcing the drunk to move out and sleep on his brother’s couch.

How the landlord showed up on a work break and kicked out the drunk. This also had the effect of reducing my rent somewhat since the drunk’s cut of my rent was gone – the house rent remained the same and now we divide that by the number of people in the house (number of rooms rented, technically) and mail it to the landlord.

The drunk contested the restraining order and got a hearing at which a judge tossed it out. The drunk moved back in the same evening. But now we pay the landlord directly and answer to the landlord, not to the drunk.

Craigslist room ads often say that they want “no drama” and I didn’t quite understand what that was all about. Now I know.

Terry, what are the chances that you could work out an arrangement with the working woman who’s buying her own home, where you rented a room directly from her? She would certainly know you’re quiet (and hopefully vice versa) and might welcome the chance to help cover her mortgage, which is hard to do in the early stages of home ownership. I’m guessing she lived in this hell house to save money, so she might appreciate the chance to defray her mortgage costs. Good luck!

“Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.” That said, I find it telling that no one has mentioned the “freedom” one has to give up to earn money.

The older I get, the less freedom matters to me. I am grateful to my job for allowing me the freedom to do that which matters to me and for satisfying my material needs, including emergencies and retirement. But if my well paying job, investments and savings, home and possessions went away tomorrow, I know that I would okay because I have been fortunate enough to learn the secret of a free life: it is by giving of ourselves that we receive. That is a freedom money can’t buy.

Money does definitely give you freedom. I am not sure about ‘buying’ freedom though. Money gave me freedom from the worry of not knowing where my next meal will come from. This to me has been the best thing about having money.

J.D:
I got very excited about the Meet-n-greet prosepect…
Especially since you said you’ll be in Denver in September. I am curious what would bring you here, but even more so, I am very interested in meeting up with you.

As a fellow non-coffee drinker, meeting for a “Fika” (google it, ’tis swedish) sounds like a fantastic idea (You’re welcome to contact me).

Interesting post; I like the autonomy vs freedom discussion as well. I have a job and I’m certainly not free to do what I want when I want. However I view it as one of those life commitments that feeds, clothes, and shelters me, gives me health insurance, lets me travel, AND lets me stretch my brain and use my people skills on a daily basis. Not a bad deal!

What’s that great about total freedom? Isn’t that essentially anarchy?

Freedom to do what I want is limited to not imposing on other people’s happiness or freedom to do what they want.

Money isn’t about freedom to me, you can be dirt poor and totally free or extremely rich and oppressed (the wealthy wife of some oil shiek in a religious Muslim country for example).

Money is about security and taking stress away from not meeting your basic needs, and allowing yourself to meet the basic needs of your family and close friends should they need it.

Beyond that, the value of money to provide happiness plateaus very early from what I’ve seen; and happiness comes primarily from the pursuit of attainable goals and sense of community (be it with family, friends, church or other).

Will money by the majority of people freedom? I have a sneaking suspicion that it won’t, for most people.

To be truly free requires a reboot of one’s brain. By that I mean that society, in general, has programmed people to keep up with the Jones and to spend above our means. Income goes up, spending goes up and happiness doesn’t necessarily improve. This type of mindset will never offer complete freedom.

Sure, all the money in the world certainly can make a difference when it comes to happiness, but, and I know this sounds a bit cliche, happiness comes from within. Make lots of money, but be a genuinely happy person and don’t feel it necessary to buy a mansion or a new Mercedes just because you can.

The measure of how “free” one is, financially, is directly connected with their ability to delay gratification. Most GRS participants are folks who take responsibility for their own lives and who practice sacrifice as a part of daily living. While we may not be able to get what we want when we want it, it is usually an attainable goal. So, can money buy freedom? Not necessarily, since freedom is the result of exercising self-control and not spontaneously spending or doing anything else without consideration of the consequences.

Love the post J.D.
Often we get so tied up in the “how to” aspect of finances that we don’t focus on the “why”.
I really enjoyed the esoteric musings because it makes you think and ponder, it’ll lead to some interesting discussions in many households (mine included), thanks!

For me, money makes me feel safe. And it’s only when I feel safe that I feel a sense of freedom. The “what ifs” prevent me from feeling free…but I suppose there is always a “what if,” no matter how much money you have.

What I find interesting is that some people might view being “safe” as a path away from freedom. It’s only when you don’t play it safe that you can be free. ? Maybe it’s all semantics. :)

JD,
I’ve really been enjoying your increased presence here at the blog. A well-thought out and interesting post that has caused me to think a lot today about what exactly is “freedom” – from work, money, responsibilities, etc. Definitely agree with others’ comments about freedom from/freedom to.

The purpose of freedom is to FREE SOMEONE ELSE. <—One of my all time favorite quotes.

Where did you find that quote? It reminds me of my all-time favorite quote, which I’ve shared here before: “The small man builds cages for everyone he knows while the sage, who has to duck his head when the moon is low, keeps dropping keys all night long for the beautiful, rowdy prisoners.” Love it.

As smeoone who has been practicing EFT professionally, I have found myself collecting all the books on the subject. What I liked about this book is that the author explored attracting money from all angles and didn’t just promise that EFT would be a magical solution to all your problems. Some EFT practitioners have been known to do that, so it was refreshing to see smeoone approach the topic honestly. The one issue I have is that, unless you are experienced with EFT, you can’t just learn it from a book. I would recommend checking out the hundreds of videos on the Web which show you how to do EFT. Once you’ve learned how, then come back to this book. There is a precision to tapping that must be learned for it to be affective. I don’t believe a book can teach that. But once you have mastered it, books become great tools.

Great post.
I particularly love the inclusion of the triangle in relation to money and Maslow’s theory of the hierarchy of needs. Money doesn’t = freedom but having more choices surely must give more options and more of a move towards freedom. Thanks for the insight. For those interested in self actualization in the UK and the States check http://www.micpeakperformance.com

I think its awesome that you’ve been able to get out of a job that you hate and doing work you love. I used to think that it was impossible to do work you love, but it seems that the people that do work they love find a way to monetize their interests.

Freedom to me means having civil liberties, right to bear arms, free speech and many of the things we take granted here in the first world. Freedom to me means doing whatever I want without hurting others.

I think for me money doesn’t buy freedom, but my ability to not worry about “the rat race” = freedom.

It seems like when my debt was over my head all I worried about was the next bill and getting it paid. I couldn’t think about the things I really valued in life because I was too stressed out about that day.

So, while in some ways “money” bought freedom, it was really “what I did with the money” that bought freedom.

I was just talking to my 11 y/o about this. He says he can’t wait til he’s an adult! See, freedom, to a child, is adulthood. The crazy thing is that freedom to an adult is childhood! My kids have no idea what it feels like to be truly scared that you won’t make ends’ meet or worried that someone might get sick or the furnace will break down. I hate to sound like my dad, but he was right; those were the best years of my life. I am going to conquer this debt. I might not live like a child with an unlimited allowance, but I do hope to feel free of worry once again. :)

I find we tend to look at the past with rose colored glasses. I think I’d like to be free as a child again, but when I really think about it I was under my parents (loving as they were) thumb and at their mercy for many decisions. Fast forward a bit and I recall fun times camping in the woods or hanging at the bowling alley, but when I really consider it Middle and High school were doses of bad emotional rollercosters. I truly loved the freedom I experienced in college and could easily imagine looking back wanting to re-experience some of those feelings again, but even there by my fourth year I couldn’t wait to be anywhere else.

I guess no matter where you are in life, the worries of the moment always seem (in general) greater than the worries of the past, and yes sometimes they are. Yet when you really consider it, those moments whether different or less severe in consequence were often just as important and stressful to you then (and sometimes more so) than what you’re facing now.

My basic point is focus on today and what freedoms you want going forward, because the past is always colored by the fact you’ve lived beyond it.

I think ‘getagrip’ is right. Childhood was pretty oppressive, if you really think about it. I would NEVER want to be a child again. I had pretty strict parents, and no freedom at all. I’d rather be an adult, worrying about surviving, than be a child again. At least as an adult, I’m free to go where I want to, and to live where I want to, to some extent. And as an adult, I’m free to make other choices as well. If I want to drink a Pepsi, or have a candy bar, I can do so. I never could as a child.

Whenever someone says “Money can’t buy happiness” I always want to retort with “Neither can poverty.” I don’t quite remember where I heard the phrase, but I think your post does a good job of summing up how we should be realistic with our attitudes toward money. It can help us achieve our goals and makes a lot of the basics much easier, but I think you point out a very big trap people should watch out for: becoming obsessed with money as money.

I believe you are correct when you say freedom is not bought with money, and that money is simply a tool. I look at it this way: building freedom (as you define it) is a very close parallel to building wealth. To be wealthy, you must maximize income and minimize spending. In other words, increase the gap. To gain freedom you must maximize your wealth (money to be able to do what you wish) while minimizing your encumbrances (e.g. debt, a job that requires tons of your time, animals/pets that require attention, etc).

Pursuit of freedom, just like the pursuit of wealth, must be kept in check otherwise you may miss out on other equally important things in life.

Thanks for all the comments today, including the criticisms. Kate C, especially, has had some constructive things to say. I appreciate the rest of the feedback too, even if I disagree with it.

For one thing, I’m not trying to pretend I have the answers to life. I don’t. I didn’t intend to argue that my definition of freedom was correct. I’m not even convinced of it myself. I’m thinking out loud, trying to explore these ideas. So trying to tell me that I’m immature for wording things the way I did doesn’t really bug me because I can see your point.

Also, I understand that a lot of folks dislike the “lifestyle bloggers”. There are things about them I don’t like, either. But to condemn them because you think they’re condemning you seems…bizarre. Remember what I always say: Do what works for you. There’s no one right path through life, not with money nor with anything else. We’re each trying to figure this out as we go along.

I dislike the lifestyle bloggers because I think they’re chasing false idols. They think that a 4-hour workweek in a meaningless company, or owning less than 100 objects, or living a nomadic life, or whatever, will make you happy.

They suggest that you can design the perfect life, one that will make you happy every minute of every day – just like them!

Ugh. I like PF blogs because they’re about reaching goals, not chasing some impossibly high image of the Good Life.

Well, I’m with you there. A four-hour workweek? Owning less than 100 things? These things don’t interest me, and I think they’re distractions. Plus, I don’t think there’s any such thing as a “perfect life”. But a better life. I think that’s worth working toward. I just think “better” is going to be different for each person.

Imelda, I disagree. Some people are happy with a nomadic lifestyle. What’s wrong with that? I don’t agree with the 4 hour work week because its unrealistic for most people.

I don’t own 100 things, but I do own enough stuff and 99% of it is used on a daily basis. You shouldn’t look down on people just because they make different choices from you.

IMO JD Roth seems to be saying that with if you’re debt free and have money then you have financial freedom. Dave Ramsey says “Live like no one else and later on you can live and give like no one else.”

Obviously his lifestyle is going to be different than someone with kids. I don’t see how Kate C. had to jump all over JD. Clearly she’s doing what she wants by having a family, having a family is also a CHOICE. So at some point she did what she wanted by having a family.

How is that different from the single person that chooses to travel? Different lifestyles from different choices.

IMO I think sometimes people get jealous of people that achieve success, but deep down they want what you have, financial freedom. That’s why you see the nasty comments.

But I hope you succeed, I hope your writers succeed as well. I think its a shame to see nasty and jealous comments. For some people easier to be negative than to be positive and improve their lives.

When I was growing up my mom always said “Take what works and leave what doesn’t.” I don’t get why people can’t apply that to their own lives when they read GRS.

Seriously. Sometimes the advice you give might work later for me but it doesn’t work right now. Its easy to be jealous, its easy to steal, its easy to be negative but its a lot harder to work for success. Its easy to be a hater.

I have a friend that hates rich people, I guarantee that if I ever “made it” that he would hate me. He’s very very jealous of anyone that is successful than he is. He’s also a huge debbie downer which is why I don’t talk to him much these days but yeah sometimes financial trolls irritate me.

Don’t listen to the haters JD. Keep going. I hope your writers keep going too and I hope everyone that wants financial success achieves it. We have enough hatred in this world. Why can’t people be more encouraging?

Yeah so maybe not everyone wants JD’s life, but the point of the post is that being debt-free has given him choices he otherwise wouldn’t have had. There’s no reason to hate on that. Stop being haters.

Ahhh… yes, The jealousy card. The one that gets played any time someone voices a different opinion. Heaven forbid anyone disagree with this round of super-deep arm chair philosophizing between lifestyle bloggers.

Would I like a big pile of money? Sure. Do I want to blog for it? No. I absolutely hated blogging every time I tried it. He did the work and he gets the reward. What I know about my friends who are self-employed is that they really do earn every penny. In some ways their lives look freer and more flexible and in others ways they are less so. I don’t think that makes me a hater, but if it does I’d rather be a hater than some kind of fanatical GRS sheep. I’m not looking for a guru. If I was, Roth wouldn’t make the mark.

He may be financially independent. But that doesn’t mean he has answers about life.

I believe Imelda pointed out somewhere that financial freedom is not the same saying you are free. I think that was insightful.

At a certain point, you have to look beyond “Do what works for you”. If you apply it to EVERYTHING, it becomes an empty slogan. At some point life goes beyond that.

Having children isn’t something I did because it “worked for me”. It’s so much more complicated and nuanced than that. It’s too shallow a perspective to simply say “well you chose to be a mother, so you’re as free today as the day you made that choice”.

Why not look for information rather than confirmation when you write these types of articles. My guess is you don’t treat them the same as you would an article about investing in an IRA Roth. You really should if you believe they are more than just blog.

Hey, Anne. You’re right, of course, that “do what works for you” — or any other general advice, really — isn’t meaningful for all situations. And I’m not suggesting that it should be applied to all situations. (Although there’s no doubt that I’m a relativist and see the world in shades of grey, not as a place filled with blacks and whites.) That said, I think that freedom is one of those things that’s personal for everyone, as the comments on this post demonstrate. “Do what works for you” is applicable in this case.

I don’t think everyone should live alone in a 700-square-foot apartment with one cat and hundreds of books. To me, this is liberating. To you, it might be hellish.

Also, I think you’re absolutely right that certain choices, choices made when you had more freedom, eventually lead to less freedom. To use your example, having children restricts the freedoms of the parents. But that doesn’t necessarily mean the parents are any less happy. (Well, actually studies show that generally parents are less happy, but that’s a topic for another article.) There’s a complicated interplay between the choices we made in the past and the freedoms (and happiness) we experience today.

And to your final point: I’ve written articles like these since Day One at Get Rich Slowly. I’ve always felt it was clear that I’m not trying to pass them off as anything other than stories about conversations. They’re meant to provoke further conversations among readers. For instance, when I wrote about financial blueprints five years ago, the style and presentation of the subject were nearly identical, and the story arose from a similar discussion with friends. I post several of these stories a year. I think most folks understand that I’m not trying to pass my ideas off as gospel in these stories, but that I’m trying to present a slice of life, to talk about how these discussions occur in real life.

So, why didn’t I do more research into the nature of freedom? Because that sounds like the topic of graduate-level seminar, and that’s not what this post was meant to be. It’s not meant to be an exhaustive discussion of the topic. I can’t help that the things I think while at dinner with friends aren’t earth-shattering or revolutionary. But they’re the things I think. And I think our discussion was interesting, and worth continuing online with the readers of GRS. You and Nerdo seem to disagree. I can’t please everyone…

I don’t think that JD expects us to be his sheep. Personally I love the “do what works” philosophy because it means to me that everyone has to find their own path and people find happiness with different paths. There is no one right path for people.

I wouldn’t can food, in fact it would make me unhappy, I’d rather shop for groceries. I also don’t like to travel solo. Most of my life I’ve gone on trips with friends, boyfriend, or parents. I wouldn’t buy a mini cooper since its not my style.

I wouldn’t learn Spanish, I would want to learn French, its a beautiful language and I love French history. I don’t like Dave Ramsey’s religion but I’ve learned a lot from his financial advice. Especially his baby steps. Just because I don’t agree with every tiny thing doesn’t mean that you can’t learn from him.

Anyway I’m not a clone of JD or GRS, I learn and read and take what works for me for the time, certain advice is timeless though. People in this life are very judgmental so I like the “do what works” slogan.

Just because people choose a different path from you doesn’t mean that they’re wrong for choosing that path.

Here’s an example, when I was little I got preached that Christianity was the one true path but when I grew up, I realized that there’s no way I could possibly be a Christian. I didn’t agree with it. Not one bit. There was always something “off” about it.

After reading about various religions the one that I find that speaks to me is Buddhism. There’s something truthful about it that speaks to my soul. Anyway you have kids, great, my mom had me, I’m glad she did because I wouldn’t be here.

When my mom was younger she made a lot of sacrifices for our family and I know that parents can’t take off whenever they want to because they have little ones. I don’t think JD is saying “Yeah if you’re a parent you NEED to take off whenever because that is freedom.”

I don’t think that’s what he’s saying and even if he did well who would listen to that unless they didn’t have a mind of their own? There are trade offs in life even though we live in the first world. Even with a great windfall like JD had, there are trade offs to what he does, not just with money but with time and with choices.

JD chose Spanish as a language he wanted to learn, but what if he had chosen to learn Chinese? China has become an emerging market, shouldn’t JD just learn Chinese? Isn’t JD missing out by not learning Chinese? A lot of business people are learning Chinese so they can live in China and work in the new global Chinese economy.

Well there’s the opportunity cost there. He can’t do everything, there’s the trade off. That’s more of a first world “problem” though.

Even though we live in the first world, there are trade offs to the freedom that we have, there are opportunity costs to every choice. Anyway I guess I’ve rambled enough. ;)

Thanks so much for coming out this weekend, J.D.! GRS has been such an inspiration to me for years and Jessie and I were so excited to have you. I’m even more happy to know the “Field Assembly” sparked some useful thoughts and ideas for you.

I’m sorry we didn’t get to chat more; hopefully we can catch up again soon.

I too have enough money that I no longer have to worry about paying bills or other necessities, and freedom from that kind of worry has lightened my soul.

But I don’t believe freedom exists in a vacuum. If I’m free, and most others aren’t, I don’t think my freedom is going to mean much. Our society is increasingly fraught, and I believe the more I use my time, energy and resources to do what I can to heal the divisions that I see everyday around me, the more freedom I will have.

In my life, I’ve been both broke and wealthy. The broke part of my life taught me something valuable that frees me from a lot of fear that other wealthy people have: I know that I can survive being broke. Having money gives me more mobility, but if I didn’t have the emotional freedom from fear first, money would only ratchet those fears up. Freedom is an internal state of mind. If you aren’t internally free and you get a windfall, you will feel even less free. If you are internally free and you get a windfall, then you can really understand and value how fortunate you are. I felt free when I was broke and living a very slowed-down but deeply connected life, and I feel free now as I live what I consider to be a wealthy, full life with lots of commitments (marriage and two children).

I appreciated the “brainstorming-out-loud” approach you took to this, and it is a worthy topic. I went into “strongly disagree” mode, though when you hit the pyramid paragraph that ended with “If you worried each day about how you were going to feed yourself and your family, you wouldn’t have time to pursue these higher aims. You wouldn’t have the freedom to do so.”

First, there are many who have the “higher aims” without the bottom levels. Second, the key words there are “if you worried..”. As Elyn just said, it’s your contentment that affects your freedom. Lack of contentment/peace steals any freedom you think you have regardless of your financial situation – rich or poor. I can be barely scraping by in a job terribly unsuited to me with wretched living conditions, and still be content/free.

I have to strongly disagree with this post. As someone who has been poor, there is no contentment in wondering if you’ll go hungry tomorrow or if you’ll still have electricity next month. I appreciate posters that are sensitive to respecting the poor, but, as someone who has been there, there is nothing noble about true poverty. Nothing. You absolutely will not be content if you can’t eat. Simple as that. Also, as someone who has been hungry, it was (for me at least) almost impossible to think of anything else.

Obviously, I don’t know you or your life history, but if you can feel “content/free” while “be barely scraping by in a job terribly unsuited to [you] with wretched living conditions”, you are a far far better woman than me.

Agreed 100%, Katie.
I have to wonder if people who say “Oh, I could be dirt-broke, and be content” have ever *really* been poor. It’s hard to be content when you’re afraid that you’ll have to sleep out on the streets. It’s hard to be content when you spend *years* barely scraping by, and you have to keep moving amongst friends and relatives, because you can’t afford even a small room to rent, and you don’t want to wear out your welcome at any one friend’s house or relative’s house. It’s hard to be content when you’re doing odd jobs for years, trying to find solid, steady employment, but cannot, so you rely on freelance and whatever you can scrape up to sell that day, just to keep surviving. There is nothing noble at all in extreme poverty. :(

I think it is important to distinguish between “contentment” and “freedom.” In my previous comment, I did not say the word “contentment” to describe internal freedom. When I was broke, I was not content with my financial situation- if I were, I would still be there. Discontentment is one of the things that led me to where I am now. I am all for not being content. This does not cancel out freedom. In fact, it frees people to make changes.

I’m sorry…I don’t think I communicated my intent very well. Not “content” as in “I don’t want to change my circumstances”. Content as it relates to the definition of freedom. J.D. said he defined it as being able to do what you want, when you want. So, let’s say the opposite of that would be “NOT being able to do what you want, when you want” – and I disagree that in that circumstance I am not free. If I am imprisoned, in poverty, in riches, in limbo, homeless, hungry – I have freedom/contentment in all circumstances.

Sure, financial freedom to do what you want, yes. But it cannot buy a healthy state of mind or attitude, which is much more important than just pure wealth. And for me, while I can appreciate having enough money to be “free”, it would be pointless without other aspects filling in the rest of the blanks in life. Money is great to have, but it cannot be the driving factor for gaining success.

Money isn’t automatically freedom. You need to look carefully at what you’re doing to earn the money before you can conclude that you are, in practice, free. This is a cost-benefit analysis we should all perform on our own lives.

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My name is J.D. Roth. I started Get Rich Slowly in 2006 to document my personal journey as I dug out of debt. Then I shared while I learned to save and invest. Twelve years later, I've managed to reach early retirement! I'm here to help you master your money — and your life. No scams. No gimmicks. Just smart money advice to help you get rich slowly. Read more.

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