eddiefromirwin wrote:Its interesting that everyone is calling for HCDB to be gone, or Letang to be gone, or Fleury to be gone. And there is no doubt, the D, the goaltending, and the coaching have not been good in this series.

However, the biggest problem that I see is that they just aren't scoring, and this last game, they didn't manufacturing very many scoring chances at all. This is completely uncharacteristic of this team. One goal in two games? I could understand a series like the Philly series last year, but Boston is shutting this team down.

This team is not structured to win 2-1 games on a regular basis. They need to be generating chances and scoring goals to be successful. A new goaltender or a redo on the blue line won't change the scoring troubles in this series. I don't even think coaching will impact this in a huge way.

When the stars quit being stars, the Pens are cooked.

Or they could play a patient responsible game, wait for their chances and strike when the moment's right...instead of forcing offense all the time, giving up bad defensive breaks, and getting frustrated when they don't beat their opponent into submission with their starpower, to the point that they give up on the game.

eddiefromirwin wrote:Its interesting that everyone is calling for HCDB to be gone, or Letang to be gone, or Fleury to be gone. And there is no doubt, the D, the goaltending, and the coaching have not been good in this series.

However, the biggest problem that I see is that they just aren't scoring, and this last game, they didn't manufacturing very many scoring chances at all. This is completely uncharacteristic of this team. One goal in two games? I could understand a series like the Philly series last year, but Boston is shutting this team down.

This team is not structured to win 2-1 games on a regular basis. They need to be generating chances and scoring goals to be successful. A new goaltender or a redo on the blue line won't change the scoring troubles in this series. I don't even think coaching will impact this in a huge way.

When the stars quit being stars, the Pens are cooked.

Or they could play a patient responsible game, wait for their chances and strike when the moment's right...instead of forcing offense all the time, giving up bad defensive breaks, and getting frustrated when they don't beat their opponent into submission with their starpower, to the point that they give up on the game.

Up to a point, yes....but great offensive teams generally do not operate this way. You need to feed the beast, especially with guys like Malkin. He gets frustrated when he is not scoring, and the rest of his game then goes to crap. I see some of this in Sid as well, though not to the same degree. These guys don't make 10 mil per to be patient and wait for offense to come to them...they have the talent to create, and do not need to react to make chances.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. (Though I think while Malkin's frustration is more visible in his body language, Crosby's frustration affects his game more negatively.)

But in my mind this is Blysma's failing, not the stars. He's created a system that attacks all the time, playing into the stars' predilection. The systematic focus on offense works on weaker teams. But even a team like the Islanders was able to counter it with a strong offensive attack. If they had a decent goalie or another top 4 guy back there (or hell, if they didn't lose McDonald) to deflect just enough of the Pen's offense, they probably would have lost.

Therrien had the stars all bottled up, which didn't work either. It's obvious the recipe for success is a balanced game. I wonder what it be like for the Pens to have a coach who demanded Sid and Geno play a 200 foot game, who'd say: "Sure, when you get an opportunity, go for it. But develop your defensive game. Be as powerful in the defensive zone as you are on the rush. Watch what happens when You play with that focus not just on scoring, or creating chances, but on dominating the opposition."

I want to see Geno on the PK. He used to be a monster in the superleague, defensively as well as offensively. You can see it in his back-checking still... but it gives these guys a way to be stars even when they're not scoring. Instead, they get shutdown in game 1 and go into tantrum mode.

What I think happens:-If the Penguins lose but still make this a series, Bylsma stays. If the Penguins lose as badly as it's been going, Bylsma is gone.-TK's rights, Niskanen and traded for Draft picks and/or 4th liners-Vokoun and Fleury remain-Cooke, Dupuis and Murray re-sign-Morrow and Iginla allowed to walk unless they try to trade their rights before the UFA market opens. -Some of this is all done to make room for Bennett, Despres and Bortuzzo to play full-time.

What I think happens with Letang:If the Penguins fail to sign him to an extension before the draft, he gets traded. If there is any truth to what they media reports what Letang can get and he's unwilling to take a discount, this is his last season as a Pen. No way the Pens play him $7+M and have to dump half their team to keep him. I also don't think they will wait to trade him because now is likely when they'd get the highest return vs. waiting to trade his rights. They're better off trading him to a team he wants to go to and likely to re-sign in.

What I think the Penguins should do:Trade: TK's rights, Niskanen, Jokinen and Engellend for 2nd and 3rd rounders, really bulk up with picks and maybe a solid 4th liner.

Trade: Letang no matter what. A discounted Letang would still likely be at least $6.5M. As amazing as I think Letang is, I think the Penguins can build a defense that's as good as it is now without him. I believe Despres, while not having the physical game Letang does, will benefit from a full-time role and let the Pens have a very good transitional game.

What do you trade Letang for? This is where I think the Penguins can strike Gold. I think the Penguins can trade Letang to Florida or Colorado for their 1st overall pick and should select Nichushkin. There are some who believe he has just as much of a chance to go 1st overall as many think any of the top prospects could really go in any order. What I've read on this kid is EXACTLY what the Penguins need up front.

Re-sign: Murray, Dupuis, Cooke and Iginla(for the right money and no more than two years). I think Bennett should play the third line next season and let the current top-six stand.

Let walk: Morrow and Eaton.

Trade: Fleury. Attempt a trade to a team that needs a goalie and get a dman in return. If possible, trade Fleury to Phoenix for Yandle.

Goalies to target: Backstrom from Minny is a UFA, Mike Smith from Phoenix and possibly a trade to LA for Bernier.

Take the Body Shoot the Puck wrote:- HCDB gone- Fleury unloaded, with Vokoun playing out the next year on his contract and Zatkoff/Hartzell given a chance- Letang traded for a top 5-10 pick + extras. Use that pick to draft a forward- Niskanen and Kennedy traded or not retained- Morrow gone, Iginla resigned at a discount as I think he'd do better actually playing RW and getting top PP duties under a new coach- Dupuis resigned- Despres, Bennet, and Vitale given full time spots in the lineup- Give Harrington a couple of call ups from WBS to get him ready for a 5/6 spot in 14-15

I think you are on the right track. The kids showed this year that they are capable, and we do seem to have a bunch of good young defensemen. I am never sure is Letang is an asset or a liability. Today, I'd like to keep Kennedy, I'll most likely change my mind in the morning. The whole group of third and fourth liners seem to be intechangable so let's see who we can keep on the cheap and who we can't. Dupuis may be a stretch to keep after the last 2 years, and I can never make up my mind about Cooke. I can see this thread going until camp opens in September.

I like most of this as well. I would keep Kennedy and Morrow if he'll take a pay cut. I definitely want to re-sign Dupuis. Cooke is one of the few Penguins who has shown up in all the games - he's a keeper.

I've no doubt about Letang - he needs to go. I believe they can move him for the above value (although last night I would have traded him for a bag of pucks).

Bylsma - GONE. Actually, I'd like them to fire him before the end of this series - it might buy them a game or two.

HCDB - depends a lot on the next 4-10 daysPens target some goaltending prosects in trades & draft

I'd agree with most of this. A couple differences in my opinion...

Fleury--I think they can get something in a trade for Fleury. Not much, but something. Fleury's contract isn't that bad in terms of length, and I think he could actually be a good goalie for a defensive team with modest expectations (e.g. Phoenix). Obviously, nothing materialized, but it seemed like there were serious trade discussions about Luongo. Given the contract differences, I'd rather have Fleury than Luongo.

Iginla--The Pens might be able to get something for his rights at the draft. I think he's pretty much worthless 5 v 5, but some team will still be intrigued by the name and the reasonably good stats and might be willing to part with a mid-to-late round pick to get his rights a little early.

Bylsma--Unless the Pens come back to win this series, I kind of feel the same way about Bylsma as I do with Fleury at this point. The team looks unbeatable on occasions, but he's just presided over too many implosions at this point for me to ever feel comfortable going into the playoffs with him behind the bench.

In terms of value, probably (considering they got a number 8 for Staal). However, I'm not sure any of the teams in the top 3 would trade for Letang. I would think Tampa needs to get more defensively sound, not add offense from the back. Florida already is paying Campbell quite a bit as an offensive d-man (Letang is better, but doubt they would want to spend that much on two offensive, defensively questionable d-men). Colorado seems pretty adamant about keeping the number 1 pick, even though Letang might make sense for them.

HCDB - depends a lot on the next 4-10 daysPens target some goaltending prosects in trades & draft

I'd agree with most of this. A couple differences in my opinion...

Fleury--I think they can get something in a trade for Fleury. Not much, but something. Fleury's contract isn't that bad in terms of length, and I think he could actually be a good goalie for a defensive team with modest expectations (e.g. Phoenix). Obviously, nothing materialized, but it seemed like there were serious trade discussions about Luongo. Given the contract differences, I'd rather have Fleury than Luongo.

Iginla--The Pens might be able to get something for his rights at the draft. I think he's pretty much worthless 5 v 5, but some team will still be intrigued by the name and the reasonably good stats and might be willing to part with a mid-to-late round pick to get his rights a little early.

Bylsma--Unless the Pens come back to win this series, I kind of feel the same way about Bylsma as I do with Fleury at this point. The team looks unbeatable on occasions, but he's just presided over too many implosions at this point for me to ever feel comfortable going into the playoffs with him behind the bench.

The reason I'd go buyout with MAF is that it would take two interested teams to make a trade work. If a GM figured they were the only interested party, they'd wait for the buyouy and sign him as a free agent. It wouldn't surprise me for Fleury to be an elite goalie in 2-3 seasons, but it won't happen here. He's started a new family, and he desperately needs a change of venue professionally as well. I hope he gets a long standing ovation in his first trip back to the CEC in an enemy uniform.

If the Pens win the series, DB is back. If they lose in 4-5, he's gone. If they lose in 6-7 but show well the rest of the series, it's going to be a tough call. If he goes, I suspect the replacement is someone the front office has lined up for a while.

No, unless there is some circumstance that allows that team to know they can re-sign him. Carolina knew they would be able to extend JS. I can't imagine Letang wanting to stick around a team drafting that high. Maybe through a 3-way trade, but I think that's a longshot.

Lots of overreaction here due to the state of the series. Regardless of what happens I figure this:

HCDB: Retained. He didn't blow it this year. They won 2 rounds. But some of his ways make you scratch your head. Iginla used out of position. The D that end up getting dressed, vs those who sit. No confidence in rookies. Hockey coaches have a short shelf life and are a dime a dozen. I think Shero has hitched his wagon to this guy, and it might take them both going to get him out.Cooke: I think there are a lot of teams around the league that won't touch this guy, therefore he will not get his true value on the open market. He stays.Iginla: He's old, and he's being played out of position here. This guy has etched out a place in the hall of fame, and HCDB is playing him out of position. I don't see him sticking around, especially at a bargain basement rate. He goes.Morrow: Here is another old guy with plenty of miles. I would think that he is a guy who won't thrive in the day to day grind of the regular season. Might consider throwing a few pennies at him, considering he might not be getting anything great from other clubs. In the end though, he goes.Murray: Gotta love this guy, I think he is a real character guy. He seems to be limited, but knows his limitations. I like him on the penalty kill, I suppose. I think they might have a shot at working something out with him, but the numbers have to be right. Always error on the side of not resigning these rentals, however, I think he stays. I have sort of flipped my position on this.Dupuis: Love the guy. Huge character, and probably the best heart and soul guy they have. However, I really think he has priced himself out of town. He'll go somewhere else and return to his 10 goal per season productivity, only at 3.5 per season. It pains me to say this, but he goes.Bennett: Top 6 forward next year. Playing him on the 4th line is a waste of time.Adams: He'll be back at a really low number.Eaton: Again, if he's will to play for a low number, he comes back.Martin: Here's a guy who played well enough this year that you could move and maybe get something. His number is too big and I think they will shop him around.Bortuzzo: This guy is an RFA, and the replacement for Orpik after next year. Sign him and play him next year, a lot.Despres: Another guy that fits in long term. Play him a lot next year.Englland: He's under contract for next year, I think. Hoping that he's a 7th or 8th D Man.Letang: I almost think its either he or HCDB must go. HCDB does not know how to handle this guy. In fact HCDB has been bad with the entire D corps. I would almost like Shero to move this guy to force HCDB to play some of the younger guys on a nightly basis. However, if they ditch Martin, moving Letang becomes really tough. Some posters have mentioned getting a very high draft pick for the guy, but that is probably fantasy. Guys drafted with the first couple of picks are generally NHL ready and star caliber. Why would I trade a guy like that who I can pay a mil a year to for another star that will cost me 7 or 8. My guess is he stays, plays out the season, and then goes.Fleury: First of all, I figure the Pens real financial crunch will take place at the end of next year, so there is no hurry to buy this guy out. The Pens have been historically poor at developing goaltenders, and I think they have too much riding on this guy to dump him. This is not to say that Shero wouldn't listen to offers for him, but I think he stays.

Guys, we are not blowing up the team. We have the right roster. It's the damn lack of direction and/or leadership. I blame Bylsma and some of our top players, including Sid and Letang for stupid play and guys like Sid and Malkin for getting too emotional (don't think you'd see Zetterberg and Datsyuk react to controversy like that - they'd simply shut up and play), yet all those things should have be prevented by a coach with a better grasp on the team. How about installing a defense first mentality and not allowing Letang to go behind the opposition's net in the fist minutes of play. Design a better system to beat the trap and to get through the middle. I mean, Bruins don't have a better roster than we do, but you can tell they are better prepared to handle us. We seem to want to go nuts and outscore the other team. I don't know if it's by design or if players have become so overconfident, they think they can get away with it.

I don't know what to do about Fleury. I thought he'd get a game somewhere and secretly hoped he'd show what he's got, but we saw what happened. Either they fix him over the summer and I mean totally rehabilitate him with a psychiatrist, or I have no problem looking for a replacement.

My 2 cents is if they lose this series, I think Shero realizes that there is a problem and it's not a fluke like people thought the Philly series was. I think he determines that this team needs a big change because it's not getting it done. My first step would be coaching change. However, if that is a non-starter like some say it is, then it's has to be player changes. We have a lot of players with talent, but why do I get the impression that the team is just so emotionally fragile? Does anyone else feel that way or it just our emotions as fans?

Anyway, I could see both Letang and Fleury getting traded. I don't know what they woud get for Tanger but it would be pretty good, and perhaps a first round pick that we don't have this year. Pouliot is Letang's replacement but he is still a year away, I can see Gonchar coming back on a one year deal just for the power play.

I can't see them buying out Fleury, he has more value than that. Someone would want him. Vokoun #1 next year and share time with a F/A goalie if you cant get one for Fleury. Tim Thomas would be interesting. Iginla and Morrow, thanks and since there is no cup, goodbye. Dupuis, stay, Cooke bye, Murray stay, Eaton, Adams, Kennedy, thanks for the memories, cya.

Bennet to a top 6 role, add pieces you receive from Letang/Fleury trade, and that is a good start.