But I don't regard the fasts as law (do others?). Sometimes I am able to fast; sometimes I am not.

If I'm not, I think God understands. The fast exists for my benefit. If I don't fast, I miss out on the benefit, but I am not sinning, and I don't feel guilty at all.

I agree with you entirely Linus7, and I don't normally like being in a position where I disagree with folks anyhow.

I explain (inadequately) to my non-Christian friends that the fasting rules of the Church are not like laws which must be obeyed for us to be accepted by an unwilling God, rather they are like the training regime that a world class athlete must follow if he wants to succeed. They are not the same as success by any means, but they are what must be undertaken in the normal run of things if we want to have a hope of succeeding.

I remember the desert father who had been wandering alone in the wilderness for a couple of months not seeing a soul, and then he bumps into a heathen shepherd and explains how his ascetic efforts have led him to endure such solitude. And the heathen shepherd says words to the effect, 'Yeah, it gets right lonely out here. It's been four months since I've seen anyone else'.

It is not denying ourselves that achieves anything, least of all buying some sort of acceptance by God. There is always a starving third world family eating less, or some poor confused girl with anorexia. But by following the Orthodox Christian spiritual fitness regime at least we have some hope of entering the race.

I explain (inadequately) to my non-Christian friends that the fasting rules of the Church are not like laws which must be obeyed for us to be accepted by an unwilling God, rather they are like the training regime that a world class athlete must follow if he wants to succeed. They are not the same as success by any means, but they are what must be undertaken in the normal run of things if we want to have a hope of succeeding.

Slava Isusu Christu!

I think this is a wonderful analogy, Peter. My girlfriend's mother, born and bred Italian Catholic of the old school, was shocked when she found out I was fasting from meat during the Philipovka. "Why are you doing that? You don't have to, you know. We only have to abstain from meat during Lent."

She was nearly beside herself in confusion when I informed her that I fast from meat and dairy during Great Lent, and from meat on Fridays (and Wednesdays when I remember it's a Wednesday!). I explained to her that fasting is a means to an end, and not an end itself. That was the intent of the relaxing of the fasts in the Latin Church, to break away from a legalistic way of looking at fasting, but, of course, it all went overboard and hardly anyone fasts at all anymore. But I digress...

This is the same woman who projects a rather strong "holier-than-thou" complex, yet went to Communion for the first time in two years a couple weeks ago.

I so love those Italian mothers!

Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

My GOA Priest says that this type of strict fasting is for monks and not for the laity. And further, that if anyone questions you about whether you are fasting that your response should be "None of your business!"_________________Tom

Gosh...not what you just said...was it?

Ummmm. We were talking about a strict fast for the WHOLE 40 days. And yes, that is what my Priest said because he feels that fasting is between you and God and is no one elses business.

Do you feel it is your business if I am fasting or not? Do you not have your own sins to deal with without searching out mine?

My GOA Priest says that this type of strict fasting is for monks and not for the laity. And further, that if anyone questions you about whether you are fasting that your response should be "None of your business!"_________________Tom

Gosh...not what you just said...was it?

Slava Isusu Christu!

I think we're running to some original misunderstanding here that has degenerated into even more misunderstanding.

I was always taught that the canons are the monastic IDEALS and ones that the laity can and should aspire to. That, I think, is what the priest may have meant when he said that the strict fasting was for monastics and not the laity.

Monastics are, by nature, far ahead of us worldly types in terms of spiritual progress, at least in the strength and in a far more conducive environment to perform a strict fast. A monk once told me after I buttered him up to a friend of mine, "My boy, it's easy for me to do what I have to do in comparison to the likes of you. If we're on a fast, we're on a fast..all of us are. You, however, have to live in the world surrounded by people who aren't fasting and who oftentimes tempt you to break your fast. You are the stronger ones, those of you who resist those temptations on a daily basis, and even those who succumb after a struggle."

Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Do you feel it is your business if I am fasting or not? Do you not have your own sins to deal with without searching out mine?

I agree entirely with you on this. I went to lunch once with an Orthodox contact. It was during one of the fasts. I had a veggie type sandwich and he had chicken. He said 'I don't keep the fast', I took a veggie sandwich and failed to keep the fast most other days probably.

What was worse? My appearance of being a professional league faster or his honest failure?

I know what would be best for both of us, but I'm in no position to score points against anyone since I find the role of white washed sepulcre comes so easy to me.

"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."- St. John Maximovitch