nobody ever wants this country to stop smoking - it's far too profitable. states make bank off tobacco sales taxes, the tobacco companies themselves have a customer base that is literally addicted to their product and finds it difficult to quit smoking. incidentally, the fact that tobacco companies actually researched ways to make their product MORE addictive pisses me the hell off. that makes 'em little different from drug pushers or Colombian cartels in my book. Anyways, nobody wants customers to stop smoking. sure, making people healthy plays well on the evening news but lets face it - if the choice is between spending money on various/sundry pork barrel projects or funding medical treatment for addicted smokers...the money is gonna go to the pork barrel projects hands down no question.

Yeah, in MN they used most of the money to plug up unrelated debts and government projects.

In the heyday of the money, I called the new "Smoking Cessation Hotline" to see about getting some patches or gum as I did not have a lot of money and was trying to quit. They said they don't offer those but they would write down my name and number and call me every few days to remind me how important it is to quit smoking.

Mugato:Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

Because the fact that smoking is bad for you is what makes it so cool. Smoking an electronic cigarette is like riding around on a motorcycle with training wheels.

Mugato:Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

Mugato:Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Technically, most of the money from the settlement was to reimburse the state for smoking-related medical expenses that the states were responsible for paying a portion of through Medicaid. If they had to borrow money from the general fund to meet these unexpected expenses in the Medicaid bucket, the settlement money could replace the shortfall.

Not that it wasn't a stupid-ass thing to do, especially in an age of surplus, jes' sayin'.

A Terrible Human:Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Interesting! What does the satisfaction derive from, then? I don't smoke, but I'd thought the rituals of smoking an e-cig were similar. What is it missing?

Here's the crazy thing. Smoking does not improve tax income, but to understand that you have to look at how opportunity cost really works..

Smokers:Pay tax on what they smoke.Pay lots of money to health insurance.Have more sick days and are generally less productive (Cigarette breaks, less physically fit etc)Retire earlier and die sooner

Non Smokers:Don't pay tax on something they don't buyLive longer and earn more money as a resultPay more income taxProvide more added value into society

And it's this last one that does it. The arguments about smoking making more money is the sort of stupid thinking that only looks at the money. Money is not made, it is pushed around, it is zero-sum. Value, on the other hand, can be created and consumed. It doesn't matter how much you push the money around, if the workforce have fewer productive years, the net effect is less overall value. The money will simply revalue to reflect its value in time.

Sim Tree:A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Interesting! What does the satisfaction derive from, then? I don't smoke, but I'd thought the rituals of smoking an e-cig were similar. What is it missing?

The flavor and the rush you feel. Just ask any pot smoker, same deal, you can get the get the same look and feel but synthetic is no substitute for the real thing.

eas81:mantafirefly: Have more sick days and are generally less productive (Cigarette breaks, less physically fit etc)

[fayinc.files.wordpress.com image 500x271]

Nice try mate, but you're not going to convicne me that they're going to be more productive. And they do retire and die earlier, often after a rather long an expensive fight against whatever illness gets them (Consuming lots of actual "Value" along the way) which is rather more the point.

ZAZ:Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere

Framingham, Mass. recently banned them on town property and other towns in the area will follow. (http://www.wickedlocal.com/hudson/news/lifestyle/health/x1058235615/ Me troWest-moving-toward-healthier-choices)

ZAZ:Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere

Framingham, Mass. recently banned them on town property and other towns in the area will follow. (http://www.wickedlocal.com/hudson/news/lifestyle/health/x1058235615/ Me troWest-moving-toward-healthier-choices)

FTFA: The campaign is not just about promoting exercise, as Framingham recently banned the sale of electronic cigarettes to minors and smoking the battery-powered devices on all town properties, said Board of Health Director Ethan Mascoop.

That's beautiful! Except one does not SMOKE an e-cig! Funny how "new" technology can be misrepresented cuz "SMOKIN IS BAD"!

Even airlines allow e-cigs, yanno the same industry that won't allow electrical devices during take-off and landing.

Weaver95:nobody ever wants this country to stop smoking - it's far too profitable. states make bank off tobacco sales taxes, the tobacco companies themselves have a customer base that is literally addicted to their product and finds it difficult to quit smoking. incidentally, the fact that tobacco companies actually researched ways to make their product MORE addictive pisses me the hell off. that makes 'em little different from drug pushers or Colombian cartels in my book. Anyways, nobody wants customers to stop smoking. sure, making people healthy plays well on the evening news but lets face it - if the choice is between spending money on various/sundry pork barrel projects or funding medical treatment for addicted smokers...the money is gonna go to the pork barrel projects hands down no question.

You know, it doesn't matter about any of that because the smoking rate has plummeted. They should have mentioned it earlier in that long article, but smoking has dropped 50%. So it's not really a big surprise that smoking cessation programs aren't the priority they used to be. The battle is being won.

Sim Tree:A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Interesting! What does the satisfaction derive from, then? I don't smoke, but I'd thought the rituals of smoking an e-cig were similar. What is it missing?

There is just something satisfying about lighting a cigarette and getting a fixed dosage of nicotine - and everything else in a cigarette and then being "done" with it (for at least a little while).

With an e-cig I'm almost constantly "smoking". I never feel satisfied and the "cartomizers" wear out gradually to the point where you realize you're not getting a decent hit and then you have to fiddle with filling them up.

Meanwhile a cigarette is packaged and ready to go - just so damn easy - and satisfying. I haven't bought cigarettes since last spring so I am saving real money but whenever I hang out with someone who still smokes I'm probably going to bum a couple of real cigs, especially if drinking is involved. I'll even bum Marlboro Lights and I can't stand that brand.

Mugato:Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

Because you can't throw an e-cig on the ground to show your contempt for society and non-smokers.

As someone has already pointed out. The smoking rates have plummeted. The anti tobacco legislation that was passed such as no smoking in bars/clubs and going as far as public parks in NYC has made it really inconvenient to be a smoker. The anti tobacco people won.

eas81:Sim Tree: A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Interesting! What does the satisfaction derive from, then? I don't smoke, but I'd thought the rituals of smoking an e-cig were similar. What is it missing?

The flavor and the rush you feel. Just ask any pot smoker, same deal, you can get the get the same look and feel but synthetic is no substitute for the real thing.

/Well guess i'm going on break, be back after my cig.

An e-cig is not synthetic though. In fact, I would argue that an e-cig actually removes all of the synthetic ingredients from your nicotine. It's not the same because you aren't getting the same combination of chemicals, you're getting the pure product.

Oh, you mean like those non smokers who didn't get the flu shots this year and were sick and constantly out of the office, or the co-worker who has gastrointestinal problems that kept her out of the office for two months minimum, or the overweight co-worker who's had a running tab of medical issues lately? They all provided more added value into society.

A Terrible Human:Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Have you considered taking up public farting? It's almost as annoying and gross as smoking but without all that pesky lung cancer.

RockChalkH1N1:Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

It's not the same

A Terrible Human:Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Interesting. I realize it wouldn't be exactly the same but I thought as long as you got the nicotine it would at least satisfy that craving. I talked to I think 6 guys and girls and they love it and totally got them off cigs.

So there must be something other than the drug that makes cigs appealing. Or you're just shills for the tobacco industry. I keed! I keed! I'm honestly surprised Big Tobacco kept those things suppressed for as long as they did. Maybe try to figure out what that elusive satisfaction is. Cause it seems like a great solution to me. But I don't smoke so I can't really talk.

Oh, you mean like those non smokers who didn't get the flu shots this year and were sick and constantly out of the office, or the co-worker who has gastrointestinal problems that kept her out of the office for two months minimum, or the overweight co-worker who's had a running tab of medical issues lately? They all provided more added value into society.

You're farked.

Are you implying that we smokers are some how immune to those things? Sweet!

/Not really sure why I still do except 'I like it', the plan is to quit before kids or whenever I just feel like stopping, which-ever comes first.

I smoked occasionally (weekends, at bars) for the past 5 years and started smoking regularly about a year and a half ago, and quit two months ago. I'm glad I did, it was hard enough and I don't know what it'd be like if I had smoked more or for longer.

/slipped up on Friday and bought a pack. Smoked one, broke the rest in half and tossed them.//not worth it.

I failed every time I tried to quit smoking.Then I decided I no longer wanted to smoke. It was easy to stop.Not sure why. Maybe it took the focus off of the cigs and onto me or I could visualize myself not smoking ,If that makes sense to anyone and you want to stop, give it a shot. It's free.

Oh, you mean like those non smokers who didn't get the flu shots this year and were sick and constantly out of the office, or the co-worker who has gastrointestinal problems that kept her out of the office for two months minimum, or the overweight co-worker who's had a running tab of medical issues lately? They all provided more added value into society.

You're farked.

On average, yes, it's not like smoking on top of their problems would've helped any of them is it? "More" doesn't necessarily mean "Positive" though.

Sim Tree:Technically, most of the money from the settlement was to reimburse the state for smoking-related medical expenses that the states were responsible for paying a portion of through Medicaid. If they had to borrow money from the general fund to meet these unexpected expenses in the Medicaid bucket, the settlement money could replace the shortfall.

You're making the assumption that smokers add to the state's costs. Smokers do, to a point, but then they die early. That results in a tangible savings in social security / retirement benefits that more than offsets the healthcare costs.

You want citation I'm sure:A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.

Ed Finnerty:Yeah, in MN they used most of the money to plug up unrelated debts and government projects.

Um, yeah. That was the point. The lawsuit was for damages; as in, the states sued Big Tobacco because they paid for public healthcare costs for people who got addicted to their product. That Big Tobacco had reams of data that showed they KNEW their product was addictive and damaging and only researched ways to make it worse meant they had a case. And they won.

The money was never specifically earmarked for smoking prevention, though Big Tobacco agreed to spend some of their own money for that purpose (disingenuously of course). It was to close a budget gap that they proved was due to health care cost overruns that would've otherwise been spent on. . . government projects.

Riche:A Terrible Human: Mugato: Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere and they have flavors and shiat. And you still get to suck on that phallic thing in your mouth.

As a smoker who currently has no cigarettes and a e-cig I can tell you that it's just not the same at all. Yeah the nicotine in the electronic cigarette keeps me from being a biatch but dammit there's no satisfaction in it.

Have you considered taking up public farting? It's almost as annoying and gross as smoking but without all that pesky lung cancer.

Farting can become a very addictive habit. I tried stopping once, but I gained a lot of weight.

Chagrin:Sim Tree: Technically, most of the money from the settlement was to reimburse the state for smoking-related medical expenses that the states were responsible for paying a portion of through Medicaid. If they had to borrow money from the general fund to meet these unexpected expenses in the Medicaid bucket, the settlement money could replace the shortfall.

You're making the assumption that smokers add to the state's costs. Smokers do, to a point, but then they die early. That results in a tangible savings in social security / retirement benefits that more than offsets the healthcare costs.

You want citation I'm sure:

A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.

Now compare that to the amount of money they paid towards their medical costs through taxation in that time.

Not in my city. Idiots in the city council banned smoking in indoor businesses, INCLUDING TOBACCO SHOPS, and also BANNED electronic cigarettes, even after they went to the city council & showd that e-cigarettes CONTAIN NOTHING BUT WATER VAPOR.....morons.

Mugato:Why don't smokers get those electronic cigarettes? They still have nicotine, you can smoke them anywhere