Inside the DeAngelo Hall sideline melee

I was standing on the concourse, about as far away from Sunday's sideline melee as possible, and my initial reaction was one of embarrassment. I mean, if you're going to lose badly, at least do it with class, right?

"I stay in Atlanta during the offseason, so if Mike Smith wants to see me, he can definitely find me," Hall said, which just sounded silly.

But then I watched the actual fight clip a bunch of times. And based on the available camera angles, you'd have to say, at worst, this was a 50-50 fault thing. At worst. And somehow the Redskins came away with two flags, and the Falcons with none. Let's take a look.

Above, you can see the hit that set the whole thing off. Sure, it was late, and LaRon Landry has a habit of doing this. Sure, it was a flag. But just for the sake of setting this thing up, you'll notice that Matt Ryan technically has zero feet out of bounds when contact is made. It was a late hit, but it's not like Landry killed Mike Smith's puppy or anything.

Mike Smith and the entire Falcons bench immediately starts calling for a flag. Fine, that's their right, and the flag came in quickly. Smith, though, still looks extremely angry. He needs to learn how to stay medium.

Matt Ryan and LaRon Landry, the two men involved in the contact, walk off peacefully. Maybe they're talking about philosophy or health care or even NFL stadium sign policies. Hall, though, is surrounded. Now, it's unclear what he did to merit this treatment, and frankly it's unclear what he's even doing there, but with a seven-on-one advantage, the Falcons seem pretty safe, from my point of view. Assuming Hall is unarmed, or whatever.

The man with his hands on Hall would appear to be Falcons director of athletic performance Jeff Fish. Hall specifically mentioned Fish in his very calmly delivered post-game explanation. Here's one quote, via the AJC:

"I ran over there to kind of pull my guy away. One of their strength and conditioning coaches put his hands on me and started grabbing me. Then it went to various other guys pulling at me and grabbing me. Through the whole time, I'm trying to get the guys' hands off of me."

Again, I realize Hall sometimes talks too much, but his quote seems to accurately reflect what happened. Also, I have a policy that directors of athletic performance should stick to helping athletes perform, rather than attempting to perform themselves.

What exactly is athletic performance, anyhow? Regardless, remember when the Falcons had a 7-to-1 advantage on Hall? Well, they quickly called in reinforcements, and with the Surge, they advanced to something like a 24-1 advantage. The Redskins are still oddly absent, leaving Hall to do his thing in isolation. And sure, Hall's a fairly tough guy, but I really, really think the Falcons win this one 99 times out of 100. So this thing should settle down pretty quickly, right?

And yet the Falcons go on the offensive, with Fish and Smith seeming to be the aggressors.

"There were a bunch of guys on that sideline," Smith said. "Some of them were wearing black helmets and some of them were wearing maroon helmets. I can't tell you anything more about it."

First off dude, it's burgundy, not maroon. What is it with second-year coaches and the NFL color palette? Second off, "some of them" would appear to be incorrect, since there's exactly one man in burgundy on that sideline. One. When you went over there to scrap, Mr. Smith, there was one available Redskin to scrap with.

Here's where it really gets interesting. It's hard to tell if Smith is throwing a punch, or if Hall is forcibly moving his arm away, resulting in a joint punch-like motion, but either way, why is Smith even in the middle of this? Doesn't he have plays to call? Or playcallers to consult with? Or playcallers' playcallers to check in with?

"Our quarterback was hit late, and there was a skirmish over there," Smith said. "All I was trying to do was restore order to the sideline and did not want to get into a situation where any of our guys were injured. That was my view of it."

With all due respect, sir, I think you were creating disorder, not restoring order. I charge you with issuing falsehoods.

Also, notice LaRon Landry at the top of the screen, finally coming to drag Hall away? And notice the Atlanta assistant attempting to stop him? Because heaven forbid 24-against-1 turn into 24-against-2.

Another angle of the punch/thrust/sweep move, or whatever it was. Still doesn't look like he's restoring order, to my eyes.

And the follow-through. Nice technique.

And here's Justin Tryon to save the day. Seriously, if you were running a pool on "first man to drag DeAngelo Hall out of a threatening situation," would Justin Tryon even be a top 10 selection? I would have started with Fletcher and McIntosh and Griffin. Tryon came strong, though.

Chris Horton also shows up, and appears to be requesting a piggy-back ride from an unidentified Falcon.

And finally, the cavalry shows up, in the form of the defensive line. For the first time since this melee began, the odds start to at least vaguely even out.

Into the breach springs Albert Haynesworth, whose offense seemed to be a two-handed shove that sent a Falcon sprawling backward. Now, I understand where shoves aren't allowed, but Haynesworth's offense here seems to be the strength to make someone fall over, because there have been nothing but shoves since this thing started. Haynesworth was also hurt by the weird little pocket of space that allowed the sprawler to sprawl, instead of merely moving as part of the pack.

Also, nice to see that when Haynesworth shows up, the Falcons retreat. They're not stupid, anyhow.

To their credit, the Skins' D-linemen manage to move the pile backward. Go ahead and insert whatever joke you'd like here. And this sets the stage for the final scene, which could not possibly have been more perfect. Here it is.

"?????? I better call upstairs and see what exactly I'm allowed to do here."

Nice analysis. I understood the penalty on Landry for the late hit, but as your post further illustrates, I was pretty surprised that there were no penalties called on the Falcons for this melee. Smith was clearly agitating the situation and not trying to deescalate it and there should have been a call of some sort. He should at the very least be getting fined for his behavior.

Give me a freakin break. No D. Hall on the Falcons sideline, then there is no melee. He stuck his nose where it should'nt had been so he gets what he deserved. Look how long it took his own teamates to come to his defense. Another wasted move by Cerrato adding this punk to the roster.

this actually, i thought, was a great illustration of the redskins problem.

the only person who came to back up a teammate was albert haynesworth!! if we want to win a game, we have to have some intensity, and as much as i dislike hall, at least he has some fire in him (unlike every single other redskin on the field, excluding landry and haynesworth)

this actually, i thought, was a great illustration of the redskins problem.

the only person who came to back up a teammate was albert haynesworth!! if we want to win a game, we have to have some intensity, and as much as i dislike hall, at least he has some fire in him (unlike every single other redskin on the field, excluding landry and haynesworth)

Posted by: bacaje | November 9, 2009 12:21 PM

bacaje,
With all due respect. The players you mention are a big reason we are losing these games. Lack of discipline and tackling technique are just a few. Not to mention big mouthes that can't back up what they say. Shut up and play football. Didn't someone say the word FOCUS! How can you FOCUS ON FOOTBALL when you are distracted by this kind of behavior?

Give me a freakin break. No D. Hall on the Falcons sideline, then there is no melee. He stuck his nose where it should'nt had been so he gets what he deserved. Look how long it took his own teamates to come to his defense. Another wasted move by Cerrato adding this punk to the roster.

Posted by: hessone | November 9, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

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I'm no D. Hall fan, but he was on the sideline because he was running over to make the play. Landry made the late hit right in front of Hall who had slowed up to let Matt Ryan go out of bounds. Then Landry walked off the sideline as Hall shielded him from the opposing players. At that point, Hall was grabbed by the Falcons' strength coach and surrounded. I'm sure he probably talked some smack like he is wont to do, but it does not appear like he went out of his way to cause any trouble. The reason this one escalated is all on the Falcons.

Hey funkey,
Shut up and go to a Cowboy's forum. Or go to a Redskins game and buy some of $nyder's poison. You are about as intelligent as a moron on Drano. People here want to talk football. You want to irritate people. And remember:

CrimsonTribe,
Got to hand it to you my man. You could play for the Redskins making excuse after excuse. Spin this one how you like. But you and I know it all started with Hall on the wrong sideline and Hall running his mouth. He got what he deserved and hopefully he is out of here at years end. I mean the Raiders cut this guy and Cerrato picked him up. Enough said my man.

Dan, I think you're missing one big point, Hall had NO business being in on the sidling at all. As you pointed out, Ryan, and Landry walked away, no problem. Hall wasn't just minding his own business and then got pulled off the field by the falcons, he took the first opportunity he could and ran in to the Falcons bench and started talking smack! So yea, they stood up and stuff happens. But Hall started that mess.

Tell me why Landry and Ryan are on their way back too their huddles and Hall is still engaged. Spin it how you will, but what this moron Hall says and how he acts is getting old. The Falcons had enough of his garbage and so did the Raiders. How about you?

Great description, CrimsonTribe. I was about to add the same thing. Some people just don't like Hall and use anything they can to bash him.

Posted by: sitruc

Perhaps this will refresh your memory sitruc.My point is I'm not here to bash any certain player. But this guy Hall gets everything that comes his way with that mouth of his, not to mention his poor tackling.

hessone, repeating trite statements does not make them more effective, but rather serve to underline your ignorance. look, the team is obviously not very good...but, at least somebody has some pride and is willing to have a little fire...this staying medium crap is def. not serving the team, and if there were some more players willing to stick their noses into the action, we'd be better than we are. i never said that d. hall was anything special, but at least he's got the kind of attitude that a defensive player should have (and the vast majority of our team does not)

hessone, repeating trite statements does not make them more effective, but rather serve to underline your ignorance. look, the team is obviously not very good...but, at least somebody has some pride and is willing to have a little fire...this staying medium crap is def. not serving the team, and if there were some more players willing to stick their noses into the action, we'd be better than we are. i never said that d. hall was anything special, but at least he's got the kind of attitude that a defensive player should have (and the vast majority of our team does not)

Posted by: bacaje | November 9, 2009 1:45 PM

bacaje,
You just repeated your trite statement. Don't be so defensive. And calling someone ignorant because you disagree with them makes you look ignorant. That said, what else is there to discuss or state besides Hall being a distraction to this team. Peace.

People just have a problem with Hall. He misses tackles and gets beat occasionally but come on the guy was trying to protect a teammate.
LL makes a dumb play, Hall is there flowing to the ball. ATL's bench was upset Ryan got hit and started to coalesce around who they thought was LL. Hall probably said some things that didn't help the situation. The strength coach should never have put his hands on Hall.
The problem from my viewpoint is that no one was there to help Hall out.
This is not a TEAM! You stand up for teammates, you don't let them get manhandled on the opposing sideline.
Notice all the Falcons who stuck up for Ryan(i know it was the Falcon sideline). Look at the Skins, they reacted like they played in the 1st half; passive, indifferent & reacting late.
Hall isn't a saint folks but i'd rather have a guy with intensity than the collection of wusses we have now.
Besides this situation, Hall played like a complete wuss himself.

The #1 rule in breaking up a fight is you don't get inbetween the two combatants.

The Second Rule is that you ONLY grab somebody on your side, whatever that side is, and pull them away (from behind of course, following Rule #1.) If you lay a hand on somebody from the other side (the way two Falcons coaches did) you're only escalating the situation.

Smith and whoever that other assistant was (the one shielding Landry from returning to the scrum) were not doing either and should be questioned about what they were doing in the melee.

Finally, good point about why did it take so long for the rest of the team to help out DeAngelo? That's one question I haven't heard asked.

When you said you were on the concourse you did mean the airport concourse right? Cause obviously you didn't see the same game the rest of the nation saw. Haynesworth did not PUSH he swung on and hit somebody. Hence the flag. Landry did hit Ryan way out of bounds. Watch the replay. Ryan's foot was coming down on the outside part of the out of bounds marker. As far as Meanglo goes? Y'all can keep him. He's not worth the baggage he brings to the team.

But I will give you kudos on one thing. How you spin-doctored the whole event to make the poor lil Redskins the victims of the situation. I'll mark this column up to another cheap shot just like the cheap shot artists of Landry, Hall and Haynesworth.

These comments are interesting. First of all coaches should be above the fray even though they have a responsibility to back their payers during the game. That being said D. Hall has a history of creating conflict. He got into a sideline fight with Jim Mora during a Falcons game when he played for them. This eventually lead to him being traded to Oakland, where his conditioning coach was Fish. ( apparently had issue with Fish as Oakland too) As bad as Oakland is, they let him go. Before the game D.Hall made sure everyone who would listen knew he thought he got a raw deal from Atlanta.

D.Hall goes to the opposing teams sideline even though the player "he was protecting" had walked off. He has a history of running his mouth. What are the odds that that history repeated itself once he came face-to-face with the team he was so vocal about earlier. Did he disrespect all of the players and coaches on the Atlanta sideline by getting in their face on their sidelines.

Smith was wrong by reacting in any way. But having said that, D. Hall was being D.Hall, disrespecting all who play the game for his own ego.

If you defend someone like Hall, you will defend any action by anyone. That's sad

Lavar Arrington's take on this is that the defense should have come to Landry's aid on the sidelines. I don't believe that - the players were dispersing when Landry basically picked a fight on the opposing sidelines. He made his bed, now lie in it. His defensive teammates should have chewed him out for his self-centered lack of discipline, not joined in the fight.

The problem with the Skins defense is that their intensity is misdirected - they're taking shots outside of the field of play rather than inside it. They also are very undisciplined. Picking a fight on the sidelines only draws drive sustaining penalties. Misdirected intensity and lack of defensive discipline loses games, and is a sign of poor coaching. And we all know where the poor coaches came from...

Why did Mike Smith feel the need to get involved? Really looked like the Falcons players had Hall under control at the point that he stepped in. Everyone else was wearing pads and helmets. Smith could have gotten himself hurt, even accidentally.

What was the point of the second flag on Haynesworth? Seemed like there was a lot of pushing and shoving in both directions, so I don't understand why they singled him out.

I'm a diehard skins fan & I don't think Hall did anything wrong per se (but when you are a sh*t talking malcontent, you don't get the benefit of the doubt).

But if I were an ATL fan, I'd LOVE Smith right now. This is like a scene straight out of Hoosiers or something. The Falcons players will watch film today & see Smith in there mixing it up, with no helmet on with a guy half his age and think 'that Dude has my back!' Now these guys will run thru a brick wall as ATL is trying to make a deep playoff run. Sheer genious!

I only wish the Skins had a coach like that. Zorn was probably thinking about mountain biking while this was happening. And Snyder was IMing with Tom Cruise while Cerratto was putting eye drops in his bug eyes.

Other than starting a melee? Notice on the third picture that Landry and Ryan are walking off as if saying that was a game moment. So the question is: WTF was Hall doing? that is other than putting his nose where it didn't belong. Did he expect a pat on the back from the Falcon's bench? Only idiots would believe he did nothing wrong. He is just simply lucky he didn't get his arse kicked the way he deserved.

Why was Hall in the area? He was closing on Ryan. Then he was getting Landry off the sideline, but he was HELD back by the Falcon STAFF. He was on the sideline and the players surrounded him. Don't buy into the BS that the coach was upset about a late hit. They let Landry go and there wasn't a single person checking out Ryan as he went back on the field.

I recommend people just watch the video instead of assuming Hall was wrong. You don't want to sound as dumb as Wilbon or TK.

More important to me is if Ryan had exactly zero feet out of bounds when he was hit, why was it a penalty? When I saw the play live I was livid that he was called for a late hit and I just don't get it. If he runs the ball he is a running back - he was stretching out his run for a first down and it was close - he should have been hit. I really am disgusted with the NFL right now the way they are turning QBs into "can't touch" guys.

The very originally named Mike Smith was just trying to get DeAngelo to make a mistake against his old team and get nailed with a flag and it worked. The rest of Skins should have backed him up though and set off a bigger rumble. Show some camraderie! DeAngelo is the man. He likes to party at Tots and had a sick strip/fumble recovery and touchdown against Miami back in November 2003 as a Hokie.

I admit D Hall should not have been there, But I do think the Falcons bench should have got a flag also, They were the ones that dragged the thing out. The falcons coach should be fined for his actions he wasn't trying to stop anything , he just added to the problem, and then LIED about it in his comments after the game. Conduct detrimental to the team...its right there on the tape.
I love reading the BOG its the first thing I read with a beer after work. Great Job Dan!!!

Falcon Fan here! All I can say after seeing the altercation is why was D-Hall any where near the bench. He is a thug has always been one and unless a miricle happens he will always be one! He cost this franchise so much with his antics we were just glad to see him leave. Go back and watch the first game last year when he played with Oakland - I believe he had two pretty bad cheap shots and was burned all night long! His response as always is that it was somebody elses fault. I thought you guys had silenced him and showed him how to grow up but no it's the same old D-Hall story get into trouble and blame everyone else for your problems! He is just not as good as he hypes himself! Hope you guys get it together because out of your division you are the only team I can stand to watch! OUT!

jwm1974 - you got it right. Coach Smitty backs up his players and they will walk over buring coals for him - even more so now. Go ahead and suspend him and he will become somewhat of a legend to players all over the NFL and college. They will line up to play for him. Take Hall out of the equation and none of this would happen. Ryan walked off with Landry in good sportsmanship saying "nice hit". Go Jackets! THWG!

Does anyone remember the play in the Monday night game when a Philly player threw a Skins player to the ground when they were about 6 strides out of bounds near the Gatorade table? And there was no flag. The announcers did not make much of a deal about it because we all know the league is about as pro-philly as they are pro-Brady. But anyhow - no flag. Moving on to the Landry hit - the Atlanta qb was a half step at best out of bounds, and it was only a push from behind, he did not throw him to the ground, but you just knew when it happened that there would be a flag. What a joke. And if I were a baseball bat my happy place would be on Mike Smith's face. Keep your mouth closed you fossil of a man.

You Skins Fans WISH Zorn had half as much sack as Mike Smith. I'm sure DHall just stayed behind to exchange pleasantries with his former teammates. Sure. I'm glad our coach took a swing at your candy-a$$ed overpaid, "shut-down" corner,(he shuts himself down when ever the opposing team has a big play). Atlanta finally got their money's worth for that pick. I'm sure you'll still defend him when he costs your team 67 yards in personal foul penalties in one drive against a division rival and blows the game.

Get a life, the league should reward Coach Smith for teaching you and your team a lesson in passion for the game and having your players backs. Zorn would curled up in fetal position if that would have happened on his bench.

Dude, are you packing your boxes preparing to start working at Ca$hburn?

1. Landry hit Ryan as he was CLEARLY heading out of bounds. You dismiss the hit b/c Ryan wasn't injured. On the tape, you can see he was propelled forward by the hit and hit the ground hard.

2. I just watched the tape and you see that MeAngelo did not immediately go to retrieve Landry. When he went over he started jawing with a Falcon and that's when the strength guy tried to break it up. He certainly should have let him go after a few seconds, but MeAngelo started the trouble.

3. Zorn is an embarrassment saying he is "proud" of how he handled it.

it doesn't matter if hall was in the right or in the wrong, the point of the matter is: he didn't touch anyone. these are grown fuqqin men getting paid to hit each other on the field and talk shyt doing it. when an opposing player is on the other team's sideline how can his words hurt anyone. you shouldn't take offense to someone from a team you're beating. the athletic director clearly outweighs hall by a good 45-55 lbs so tell me he has a right to grab anyone. and the fact that mike smith was in hall's face instead of backing his team off hall let's you know that he's just as much to do with the chaos. none of us like trash talking but when it's 1 vs 7 the 1 vs an entire team, you know something is fuqt up! mike smith and the strength coach should be fined and fined heavily. hall should be fined as well but don't point the finger soley at him.

Great and hilarious analysis, it's even worse than I originally thought. By the way, when is not only one, but two simultaneous helmet to helmet hits on a player leaving said player concussed NOT a penalty? And don't even get me started on the obvious holds (2 each) on Turner's big runs

Never mind your breakdown of the fight, which I love since it is exactly when I watched the clip. I am just glad to hear someone else say that wasn't really a late hit. In Landry's defense, how many times has a D player pulled up to avoid a late hit only to see the O player make a cut and get more yardage along the sideline? Not only that, Landry was moving full speed...have the refs never had a physics class? And, like you pointed out, he and Ryan got up and went back out on the field, obviously talking. With all these "don't touch him" rules the NFL will soon be the NFFL...National Flag Football League!

As a Redskins fan, I personally would have no problem watching DeAngelo Hall get knocked the f out. He's a chump who can't make a play to save his life unless he's out of position and the ball is deflected. Still, his argument seems warranted.

First off, you guys asking why it's a late hit to begin with if he was not yet out of bounds, it's because the player had given himself to go out of bounds. When a player is cleary intending to move out of bounds, you cannot hit him. You see guys pull out of a hit in this situation all the time.

Secondly, D Hall may not have been an instigator physically, but the man knew what he was doing. He held a grudge on how his time here ended, as his comments last week showed. He was looking for some sort of revenge, in his mind. I doubt he thought it would escalate to this point, but, still.

Thirdly, the strength coach should not have done what he did. Maybe if he grabs him, walks him off the sideline and lets go, but not to hold him there like that.

Fourth: Every football team will react the way the Falcons players did. It's on their bench, and this is a macho sport, with the situation to prove your masculinity.

Fifth: Mike Smith did this because of who he is. He is "our guy", to use a term that radio guys down here love to use. He is fire-y (I don't know how to spell that one) and has always been known as a player's coach, even Siragusa in the tv broadcast said so from when they were both in Baltimore. I do not think he threw a punch, that's simply insane to spout out. He had his forearm against Meangelo's chest, pushing him away, so Hall grabbed Smith's arm, and pushed it away. No punch.

So, Fish is wrong clearly, Smith is doing what he does, sticking up for his players, as his players do for him, and D Hall is a freaking moron for wandering on to the opposing teams sideline and not leaving in a timely manner after said team's star quarterback is illegaly hit. So, if Steinberg (who I generally enjoy, as I am a DC United fan consistently on this site) is gonna call it 50/50, I'll call it 55/30/15 Hall/Fish/Smith.

What are you doing away from the Soccer Insider, JacobfromAtlanta-ish? I'm telling Goff...

Anyways, for most who are willing to objectively look at the situation, I think the only thing worth questioning is why he was where he was. He wasn't part of the late hit, but he was still part of the "play." He was closing on Ryan and was near the late hit as can be seen in posted pictures and the video. The next part is where there are disagreements. Whether necessary or not, it appeared to me that he was getting Landry out of the situation and then was held up. Helping Landry is along the same lines as Smith taking up for his players.

I understand you guys are homers (I'm a Falcons fan, so I am biased too)and maybe you don't understand the relationship between Hall and the Falcons, but Deangelo Hall instigated this dustup. He ran into the middle of the Falcons sideline. Landry was gone. Go look at the video.

Former Falcons head coach Jim Mora described Hall when he was drafted as having "athletic arrogance." He was a cancer in Atlanta with his attitude and temper. He had been jawing all week about how the GM lied to him. Maybe after he met Hall he realized that there was no way he would fit in on the Falcons sideline. Anyway, Hall had an axe to grind.

And say what you want, look how long it took his own team mates to come to his defense. Even they were hoping he would get his tail whipped!

1) Mike Smith definitely deserves some action from the league. Getting to that point with the players is not in keeping with the way that a coach should behave on the field during a game. He looks a cross between Bobby Knight and Mike Ditka.

2) Hall is the worst tackler I've ever seen in my life. The absolute worst. If he's going to go around challenging people to fights, either during the season or in the offseason, I hope he can fight better than he can tackle. I'm not sure he could tackle my six-year-old Godson.

3) Will somebody tell Hall to stop talking so much and spend some time working on fundamentals - like bringing down an opposing player after they actually catch the ball in front of you. Replace the microphone with a tackling dummy. Better yet, start off with a teddy bear and work your way up to a tackling dummy. Maybe if we let him talk for an hour on the radio for every tackle he makes, he'll be properly motivated to, you know, stop guys from getting touchdowns.