Hey, has anyone dragged an Imperial into a bathroom,or large closet and had a play? ??? They'd be the approx volume of a van. (Similar acoustic surfaces too). I'd tryit, but the Imperials are safely in Jake's hands now. I don'tthink my wife would have appreaciated this venture into scientific research anyhow..."Yes Virginia, there is a limit!"

That's a good point, Valiant. I guess I could build one and put it in the living room of my apartment, seeing as it's about the same size.

I guess what I'm trying to experiment with is this:

The imperial puts out great bass (from what I've read). Bass is what's used in SPL competition. Now, my Escort(wat too small for an Imp variation) peaks with a 52hz wave. This is in the range of an Imperial, correct? So, why not put an Imperial(or two) into a van, that has been re-inforced to eliminate as much panel resonance as possible, and play the lower tones that can peak in the larger vehicle.

I just don't understand why it couldn't work if these low tones are already used in smaller vehicles with success(I got the trophy to prove it).

Im not sure i have the right words for this, but think abut it like a hose in your yard. The Imp. is the hose in this example, more like a fire hose. Fire that sucker out into your yard, and youd have it watered in no time, but by no means would you immediately innundate your entire yard. Now, take that puppy inside, all the way upstairs to the master bathroom. Crack the valve and your bathroom is not only inundated immediately, but also filling quickly. In your escort, a nice quick watering could be had from a standard hose, (your existing setup, no offense,) and a fire hose (Imp.) would fill it to the brim very quickly indeed.

In too small of a space, the cone ends up compressing the air, rather than making waves in it, a horn would experience the same thing. Just as the water in your bathroom would no longer stream once the nozzle was immersed, the cone could not create pressure waves in the atmosphere of the vehicle. Under those sorts of pressures, interesting things start happening to both the vehicle and the speaker, thats why Steve said it would only work if the horn fired out of the vehicle, not into it, because the Imperial is too big a hose for the bathroom your watering... or something like that...

That is a pretty good analogy and at this point we can put the bed the fact that a large horn will not operate properly in a small vehicle. I've thought about it a bit and finally understand why Steve's idea would work (under certain conditions) and why my idea that the vehicle would act as an extension of the horn was false.

As Steve mentioned, there are alternatives that will work. The imperial needs immediate boundary loading, optimally a corner, and then a large area to radiate into, this is where my false assumptions came into play. I forgot that both requirements must be met. A downward firing imperial through the floor could be the perfect answer to those kids that want to annoy people, as the pavement and van bottom (excluding mouth area) would approximate corner loading and the sound radiates outside and around the vehicle. The vehicle would probably have to be very low and be sitting on concrete to ensure adequate boundary loading and even then probably would not work as well as a corner. Aren't some SPL comps measured outside the car anyway?

The only way I could possibly imagine to get the output INSIDE the vehicle would entail lying the imperial flat on its back in a tight, leakproof van, kicking out the windshield and parking face first in a large concrete parking garage. That would fulfill the requirements for corner loading and large area room.

well what are you wanting???loud spl is really only achieved when you have alot of drivers.good sound can be done with one 8.I think what you want is spl with 1 driver and you wont get it.in the end a box or in this case a horn is designed to make 1 driver sound like many .keep in mind this box is a good full sounding box and alot of its abbility will be lost in a small space.I would say build one and put it everywhere and use it to learn.in the end sound is an opinion.shayne

I can't believe you guys are still talking about this. An Imperial won't work in a van, unless you put it facing the rear or side door and open the door. Then it will work outside. The reason is because the horn itself won't function properly. It needs much more air volume for the horn to couple to. Sure you might hear/feel some bass, but in a room you'd hear/feel more, so in a van it would just be a waste. For outdoor parties it would be great. With the seats out, put it up against the back seat facing to the rear and open only the back doors. That would enlarge the mouth and give you even more bass than if you took it out of the van. Any other use in a van is a bad idea.

It was a fairly interesting concept for awhile, even though it was something I was obviously never going to even try, because a WO is more than enough for me in a vehicle.

Then I got stuck trying to figure out why it wouldn't work, even though I never had any plans to implement it.

Now I can understand why it won't work, and I also understand that talk is cheap and I really don't think anyone at all is going to actually try it, even if all the masters here that have advised against it had encouraged it.

I understand everything everyone has said, but hold me to it, I WILL put an Imperial in a van, one day.

Anytime someone's told me I can't do something, I've done it and then some.

I've designed an adjustable slope screen, the first of it's kind. I've designed and built my own personal hovercraft. I've built a propane turbo-jet out of an old crapped out turbo charger. I've written script within a program to make it do something the developers said wasn't possible. I've designed perpetual motion and free energy. I WILL put an Imperial in a van.

No one said it was impossible. It will just work better outside of the van than inside the van. That's because the bass pressure waves won't have sufficient air volume to fully change into sonic wave form. If you're man enough to build it despite sound advice against it, then at least be man enough to post the results, so no one else gives it a try.

Jet, if I had the appropriate measurement equipment I'd throw the old Imp into a van right now, just to settle this one way or the other, once and for all.

Are there ways to implement horns that have never been dreamed of yet? Sure.

Are there possibly even better ways to gain horn efficiency without the horn, that haven't yet been invented? Of course.

But with technology and our understanding of it the way it is now I am comfortable with the assurance of the pros that large horns will not work in small spaces.

A couple of posts ago, I stated that the fault in my thinking was that I forgot to meet ALL the conditions that a horn requires to operate properly. Namely boundary loading (optimally corner loading) and a large area to radiate into. I thought the intimate boundary loading presented by the van would be enough but there is no large area to radiate into unless you start smashing out windows and use the outside world as your room. Once you do that, you lose the boundary loading of a solid corner and the tuning would raise dramatically unless you park the van in a corner of some kind.

At the same time, I flat out refuse to believe that a big horn in a vehicle will make no noise, it's certainly going to sound like something, I'm just not smart enough to know exactly what, without trying.

It is astounding what innovation and an inquisitive mind can accomplish but I can't see the big horn/small vehicle paradox being worth spending a whole lot of time on.

If you are onto free energy and perpetual motion, I would focus on those things, and a couple of years down the road, when you are the wealthiest man on the planet, you could have these smaller questions worked out for you, without lifting a finger.

Believe me, I understand your enthusiasm and I understand that a person with your type of inquistive nature WILL succeed in the end, even if the reward you receive at the end is not the implementation of the original goal.

But look at it from this point of view - even if you succeed beyond your wildest dreams in this particular area - it's not going to get you anywhere. Size and weight are major considerations for vehicular electonics. There are thousands of people at work designing ways to make things smaller, not bigger. This includes the vehicle itself. Note the size of the average van 20 years ago compared to today.

By the time you get this worked out, there will be louder and much smaller options - for example the Sunfire sub is already available (for home audio). THAT is the direction automotive electronics is headed, like it or not. How long is your customer going to be happy with his 2 seater van, getting 10 mpg, with no more storage area than a sports car? Even if it puts out 180 db, it's going to be one of those things people look at for a minute and then go sit in the car with the blonde and an a.m. radio.

[quote author=Lee in Arkansas link=1145468358/45#54 date=1149357975]I understand everything everyone has said, but hold me to it, I WILL put an Imperial in a van, one day.

Anytime someone's told me I can't do something, I've done it and then some.

I've designed an adjustable slope screen, the first of it's kind. I've designed and built my own personal hovercraft. I've built a propane turbo-jet out of an old crapped out turbo charger. I've written script within a program to make it do something the developers said wasn't possible. I've designed perpetual motion and free energy. I WILL put an Imperial in a van. [/quote]Free energy and perpetual motion? Man I could use some of that for my car and house, energy in Canada fetches a premium price.Gimme sum of dat.

I guess I'll be reading about you shortly, but not for the Imp in the Van.

Anyway Chill Jet, the only reason I said it was silly is because I just think it will work better outside it than in just like everyone else said.I am not daring you at all nor think that it will be a complete waste of time. I know just as well as you the wierdest things work out.I don't know if I would try it, but if anyone was to try and let me know what happened I would elect you.

Hows that.

I hope that your Job situation works out if it has not already, that can be hard on a relationship.

kinda off topic but is it not a calculation on how low you can go in a car??I remember learning that in a car audio coarse at one time.has to do with wve length and so on??I was an spl guy so 70 hz was what we went for.shayne