It dawned on me that these, uh, ladies seem to think that dressing provocatively entices rapists. There is little to no mention of the violence associated with rape, which is WHY men (and women) rape…rape is not about desire of a woman’s charms…rape is about having power over another. To wit: 8/29/12, Frankfort section of Philadelphia: a 24 year old victim sustained severe head and facial injuries “to the point of almost being unrecognizable”. The suspect immediately began to pummel her with his fists and began to repeatedly rape her and punched and choked her until she was unconscious. 8/17/12, Greenwich Village, NYC: a 41 year old was pulled out of a massage parlor room, beaten until unconscious, then sexually assaulted. Then, here is a story with a slight twist…a 52 year old was forced off of a CTA train in Chicago at gunpoint by two males, taken to an apartment on West Lyndale Street, then raped early on a Saturday. So in this case, the violence was merely a threat (gunpoint) but the end result was the same: submission, then sexual assault. And on the cases go across our nation. Slutwalk will do nothing to stop rape, bring awareness, or empower women. A woman can be 24 and beautiful, or 52 and not, provocatively dressed or in a potato sack. They are equally subject to the violence of people seeking the gratification of having power over others. Hence, the pointlessness of Slutwalk. The participants would be better off in a self-defense class.

You obviously have no idea what the concept of the Slutwalk is. The point is exactly what you said: that no matter what women are wearing, the act of rape has nothing to do with sex appeal, but, instead, violence. In Toronto, Canada last year (I believe) a policeman told women that they must not dress like “sluts” in order to prevent rape. This walk started to combat that type of mentality. We walked to say “Slutty attire does not cause rape. RAPISTS cause rape” and that’s all there is to is. You might want to look into things a bit further, or perhaps as someone involved in the movement, before making assumptions. If you read any of the signs the ladies made you’d get the message, I’m sure.

Well, then, Donna, perhaps you can explain to me why these sayings were printed or written on the participants’ clothes:

1. Yes = Fuck Me No = Fuck you
2. Hey Control your Lust
3. The amount of clothes I wear does not change how much respect I deserve (this while she wore a merkin)
4. Body fascism ain’t cute! Stop the cosmetic assault!

And my favorite, from Carol Queen and her t-shirt: “I (heart) female orgasm”.

This all speaks to “I am woman hear me roar” feminist drivel; empowerment of women and their ability to control sex with a man (most likely in a relationship, casual or otherwise)…free sex (I love female orgasm) without consequences. “I’m greater than the contents of my bra”. It’s all about superficial nonsense…yet rapists still rape, and they really don’t care what you look like, what you dress like, or how old you are…they are taking POWER from the victim. Beating them until they are unrecognizable, in some cases, in too many, killing them. So MY point is (in case you care) the participants, if they really want to protect themselves against rape (which this protest really doesn’t help, as the evidence presented shows) would be better off in a self defense class as opposed to marching in an illogical feminist “protest”. Oh, and I’d also recommend a conceal and carry permit, a good handgun, a full clip and the knowledge of how to use it properly. That will keep you safer.

“rape is not about desire of a woman’s charms…rape is about having power over another”

Now please explain why this results in the vast majority of rape victims being females between the onset of puberty and their mid-thirties. I’ve read and heard what you’ve written a lot, I’ve never actually heard any reason to think it’s true. The biggest predictor of rape-chance is fertility.

To Careless: I don’t know where your stat is from, but let’s say it is true. How about the perpetrators? I’ll wager the majority of rape perps are 15-40. Seems pretty logical then that the victims are in the same general age bracket. But I think there is a very important distinction that is being missed in this discussion: date rape v violent rape. What I have illustrated is violent rape. What the protesters in Slutwalk seem to be pushing back against is date rape. My specific examples all involve violence, and the victims range in age…one was in her 50s. Date rape might involve two people who know each other…usually there is intoxication (by one or both parties, intentional or not) and absolutely there is a lust component. But violent rape has nothing to do with lust, and again my point is that Slutwalk has more to do with feminist “empowerment” of women than some sort of defense against violent rape…so self defense class is a better choice for these women.

One could argue that date rape is far more common, and therefore a woman’s odds of being raped are higher if she’s on a date with someone. OK. So it is incumbent upon that woman to maintain her composure, be aware of her level of intoxication, and ensure she has friends/family around her for protection. Check my posts from the 2011 Slutwalk Zombie posting. The back and forth with Baukunin will make my position clear…everyone has a responsibility to prevent rape. Feminist protests aren’t going to prevent rape, nor are zippy profanity-laced t-shirts.

Eddie: “[X should operate/advocate in *insert list of Muslim countries*]”

Why? I’ve always found this argument to be ridiculous. Considering that the avowed concern of SlutWalk is that sexism still exists, I don’t see how:

A. They’re denying sexism exists in the Arab world (or in the rest of the world);
B. They should “walk” in Muslim-majority countries where obviously the democratic demands of women are a fair bit different in character than in the West.

It’s as equally ridiculous as those who go on about homosexuals who support Palestine. The PLO under Arafat was friends with such bastions of Islamism as… Kim Il Sung. Saddam Hussein, who Arafat was friendly with, led a secular country which was explicitly anti-monarchist and more or less tolerated homosexuality. After the “liberation” of Iraq and the implementation of bourgeois democracy there, homosexuality is punished even more severely than in Iran. If the Iraqi military (which had pro-Soviet sympathies) hadn’t killed the entire royal family in 1958 we’d probably be seeing a monarchist movement too.

The US overthrew most of the “socialist” Arab leaders. What was left were monarchs who derived their authority from “Allah” and took it upon themselves to ensure Islamic law remained supreme, while at the same time financing reactionary organizations worldwide. Islamists, who were known in the 50′s-80′s for killing communists and other left-wingers, emerged as the leading opposition to US-backed regimes on the basis of the deaths of their competition.

It seem that there are a lot of men who are willing to take the position, at least in private, that they should be able to take possession of your body, even if your fifteen. That we have such a hard time conceiving of such retro-troglodyte behavior is actually a testament to the advancement of our society.

Liberals and Lefties seem to have this deep-seated need to exhibit the most profane and vulgar behavior in an attempt to shock people and imagine themselves as superior. Forgive me for judging, but IMO it is just so narcissistic and infantile. I know – I too used to be that way – LOL. Thank God I am recovering from this malady.

I just wanted to write you because you’re the first “conservative” I’ve ever read who finally understands how they’re supposed to message their media. You call it truthaganda, a bit of a mouthful. I’ve always said that the anti-communists simply need to “brainwash the people with the truth”.

The communists package their poison in a box that is 99% impeccable style, 1% substance, which is why it is absorbed into the bloodstream of contemporary American political thought so easily. Anti-communists, on the other hand, stumble and bumble their way to produce a meaty tome that is 99% substance, 1% style. It is so unappealing on aesthetic levels that some don’t even make it all the way through.

Anyways, I wanted to write you because I had just about given up on the “conservative” media movement as too dumb to understand why they’re not reaching a broader audience. I think some of them even think such an approach is “dishonest” and that, quite frankly, is naivete bordering on suicide.

You will probably find the core message too radical for your tastes, and that is alright. I mention it merely to show the template used to present the message. It’s a mix of news pieces and editorializing, but the news pieces are really where I think ALL conservative media should be headed. All of them should eventually become alphabet news organizations of their own and produce hard news pieces undetectable as “conservative” to the common consumer, yet intentionally slanted to implant a specific notion or idea.

Anyways, I gotta run, I wanted to write you because I have thought the same thing for probably 5-7 years and you’re literally the first person in the “conservative” movement who I have seen express such a notion. Keep it up and if you can convince others in the media sphere to adopt such an approach, by all means do. It increases their effectiveness by 100%.

Oh boy, Scott, where do I even begin. Every single sign that you quoted only supports exactly what my first comment said. None of them say anything about using sexuality or sex to manipulate/control men. It’s about having the freedom to be sexual, to wear revealing clothing, without being judged for it (or, worse, be blamed for one’s one rape because of it). I completely agree that rape has nothing to do with whether someone is dressed scantily or not; HOWEVER, that is NOT how society is presenting it. By telling women that they could avoid sexual assault, public figures (and there have been plenty, not just the officers in Toronto) are instilling it peoples’ minds that women who are dressed a certain way or who are openly sexual somehow “deserve” or are “asking for” sexual assault. How do you not see a problem with this?

And please tell me how the signs were some feminist hoorahh about using vagina for power over men. I’m really curious. Because I thought “Yes = Fuck Me, No = Fuck you” simply means “No means no” in other words. or that “Hey Control your Lust” means “don’t pounce on me like a fucking savage”, which means that feminists give men more credit then society gives them (in that men are told they can’t control themselves around sexy or bare women, but these ladies believe otherwise). And so on and so forth. Who gives a damn if someone is wearing a merkin or a tutu or a bear outfit or nothing at all? Everyone deserves the same amount of respect, regardless of the clothing they wear. Do you seriously disagree with that?

To Donna: I never said these ladies are using the signs to manipulate or control men, though they likely are because what they are addressing is more about sex with men than rape. Can we agree that this “protest” isn’t really about rape but more about making sure the women have power over men? That is what they want…to dress like “sluts” without fear of sexual retribution. And in civil society, women DON’T have to fear being savaged because civil men do, in fact, control themselves. Uncivil societies, say, those using burkas, do have a male populace that is out of control. These are the modern fascists. But I digress. But here is where you will likely accuse me of being a rape apologist…see my commentary on Zombie’s 2011 Slutwalk protest for evidence…these women DO have a responsibility to act civilly and logically in order to prevent their rape! Does this mean I say mini skirts should be banned? Absolutely not. What does it mean, then? It means that women have a responsibility to ensure their safety in all situations. Date rape is a very preventable crime…stay sober, be on guard, and have some fail safe plans in place to ensure you have back up in case things get out of control. Violent rape, on the other hand, can happen anywhere to anyone. How do you prevent that? Well, a firearm is a great idea. This is what I am saying…IF slutwalk is a protest about empowering women over rape, there are far more constructive ways of preventing rape than a stupid feminist protest. They can hold these protests every day for years, it isn’t going to stop rape. Now if every woman had a conceal and carry permit and knew how to use firearms, I’d say you would be doing something to prevent rape. Is that clear? And attitudes in society will not be shifted by this sort of ridiculous display of feminist defiance by freakish, unlady like ladies. The “protest” merely reinforces these dismissive attitudes.

No, I will not agree with that statement because it is absolutely not true. How on earth does the message of the walk mean women want or are pursuing power over men? I am still not understanding your reasons for assuming this. Is it because we want them to control their urges? Are you implying that we should expect the worst of men? You don’t seem to give your fellow men much credit. Obviously the protest itself doesn’t prevent rape. That’s not the point. It’s to bring light to the fact that victims of sexual assault are blamed based on superficial circumstances that have absolutely nothing to do with rape. Sure, there are precautions to take, but that does not take away from the fact that women are told to basically be completely paranoid at all times. Most women have been victims of some sort of sexual assault, so we are aware that things like wandering around late a night are dangerous; but in such a “civilized” society, why is it that we can’t go to the grocery after dark? A rape victim might be told she could have avoided it had she not gone to Safeway at 9pm at night. Or that she could have avoided being raped had she not gone out on the weekend. What kind of shit is that? Are we supposed to be recluses? Hire bodyguards? Tell me what’s next because victim blaming opens a huge can of worms. Blaming clothing, blaming timing, location, all of these things are distracting from the real issue which is that men need to be told to NOT RAPE. How about instead of women being told to constantly look over their shoulder (and this is something I do all the time since I live alone in a big city, but heaven forbid I should leave my house because rapists are everywhere and I’m the one that should be avoiding it, right?), we tell the men “Hey, I have faith that you and your fellow fellows will not be savages”. At least that’s my take on the situation. I don’t want control over men, I want to give them a little more credit than society does.

P.S. I understand why you classified one type as “date rape” and one as “violent rape”, but let’s be clear that ALL rape is violent (let’s not do what the GOP tried doing by redefining the act).

P.P.S. This particular walk took place in San Francisco, and I’m sorry that you aren’t more familiar or comfortable with the city’s colorful inhabitants, but the folks at this rally were hardly unladylike/freakish compared to others. Then again it really depends on your definition of “lady like”. Perhaps you’d rather go back to the 1950′s. Or the midwest. I’m curious to see what the Slutwalkers of more moderate cities looked like. hmm.

One more thing: as much as I am all for proper firearm use and firearms as protection, I don’t think the solution is necessarily to give everyone guns. Imagine the chaos that would ensue. Also, and this is a personal opinion (like the rest of this banter), it seems more dangerous to have such a volatile weapon on hand in case an assailant somehow gets it away from the holder. Anyway, the protest is not acting as a solution anyway. It’s about awareness and shifting social mindset on the subject.

Dearest Donna, you are all over the place with your logic, or lack thereof. Slutwalk doesn’t prevent rape, but you think that it does tell men not to rape? I don’t follow. The majority of men know not to rape. We have a (mostly) civil society. And no, I don’t view women like Ozzie and Harriet or something…this is a liberal canard that is instantly inserted into arguments like this. You are just wrong. And you obviously aren’t looking at my Slutwalk posts from 2011 which explains to Baukunin why the protest is silly. It just is. It doesn’t prevent rape, you said it yourself. And it doesn’t empower women at all. It really serves no purpose. If you want to go to the grocery late at night, arm yourself. There is no chaos from armed citizenry taking responsibility for their own safety. I suggest you inform your fellow Slutwalkers to take charge of their own destiny and dress appropriately for the situation, arm themselves if they feel it necessary, and focus their attention on more constructive activities.

If you didn’t use some choice phrases that would lead me to believe you prefer a lame 50s setting, then I wouldn’t have to jump to that little conclusion. Get over it.

If men were being made aware of the gravity of even date rape (which is often not viewed as such by the general public, just watch any college movie), then women wouldn’t have to be blamed for their assault. That happens far too often. And the other problem with having to watch our backs constantly is that this is not an issue for men. You could say that it’s dangerous for anyone to go out at night, but what’s the worst, more common occurrence for men? a mugging? I’m not saying other bad things don’t happen to men, of course, but the ratios of rape to non-rape victims are completely irregular between the sexes. Obviously woman are being targeted, not because of what we wear or how sexual we are, but because something is deeply wrong with the society we live in. And to top it off, factors that have nothing to do with rape have people pointing their fingers at us. Yet another reason why this society is fucked up. Men don’t have to arm themselves to go to the grocery, but women do? Defense doesn’t cure the disease, it only fights the symptoms.

There are many layers to the Slutwalk and everyone involved has a slightly different idea of what they hoped to accomplish from it. It was a success to us, so leave it at that. Your mediocre rantings aren’t going to make us stop, especially because you make it so clear that you are either not reading anything I’m saying or just can’t grasp the concepts I bring up. Good luck in your slutwalk-fighting endeavors.

To quote a great president from our past: “Well, there you go again”. Donna, this is a typical liberal/conservative argument. We are talking past one another. I’m not fighting slutwalk, I’m pointing out the truth. Because you do not like the truth, you are angry at me for pointing it out. Sorry, but there are so many people like you out there who are in a fog…and deem themselves intellectually superior when engaging in these types of discussions to make themselves feel better. Do you now? I hope so, but don’t be lulled into a false sense of security because rape isn’t going to stop, and men will continue to beat women and force themselves on them as well. This activity has happened since the dawn of man. The question for you is, do you REALLY want to stop rape? If you do, you’d vote for a president that is on the side of the rule of law. Clearly, Barack Obama is not. If you want to stop rape, you’ll make sure to mentor young girls and give them valuable advice instead of having them dress in body stockings and merkins while carrying vapid signs. You’ll work with law enforcement instead of lumping them all into the same category as the Canadian police officer who seems to have sparked this silly outrage. And, you will take responsibility for yourself. Don’t buy a handgun; that is your right…but you also have a risk when you go out, alone, in certain parts of our country. It’s reality. I think it is time for you and your slutwalker friends to face that reality.

Now we (the viewing audience) just need to convince the exibitionist nudests to do a naked slut walk! It could be billed as a two in one protest. Pro Feminism and pro nudity. That would be San Francisco style to the extreme.