Sure, Randy cost-plussed your ass for a cool billion, and it IS your toy and you can play with it however you want, but you're starting to make Jerry Jones look competent.

Stop having opinions in the draft room. Stop telling JFF to start acting like a backup.Stop telling pathetic stories about homeless people telling you who to draft.

Thanks for firing Banner and Lombardi. Seriously. But now go back to Knoxville and get your shine box. When you need to fire Farmer or Pettine in a couple of years don't be shy. But in the meantime the less I hear from you the better.

You make me long for the days of Randolph David Lerner.

Kind Regards,

mattvan

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

bookelly wrote:The situation may resolve itself in a few weeks when the FBI/Justice Dept. makes it's decision.

Silly, look at Haslam's net worth. People like him don't go to prison. He's already paid off the proper individuals that need to be paid off. He's just a poor victim of his underlings at his big company. Jimmy's a philanthropist. You've heard that piece of crap saying...."freedom isn't free" ? What that means is people in Jimmy's status are a heckuva lot more free than the rest of us. He's free to be a criminal in other words. Josh Gordon is in a position where he is not free to break the NFL's agreed upon drug policy with the union. He will be justly suspended. Jimmy Haslam with his net worth and close family members in high government positions is free to be a criminal.

This whole FBI Pilot/Flying J thingy is victimizing poor Jimmy. Underlings at the company will be punished. Jimmy will get perhaps a financial fine and all will be well in the world. Go Jimmy go.

ahhh, I get it now. Because if there is one thing the great Jimmy is an expert on it's entitled Dbags. As compared to Jimmy, Johnny is a rank amateur at the entitled Dbag game. Joining the Board of Directors of Daddy's company at age 20 in all honesty puts Johnny's entitled Dbagness to shame. Maybe Johnny wasn't doing it right.

On Feb. 6, according to the transcripts, Freeman told the informant that he had discussed his rebate fraud with Haslam, who reportedly had no problem with it.

CHS-2: Well what if you can’t talk your way out of it? They figure out a way and they’ve got you nailed?

FREEMAN: You pay up.

CHS-2: Pay it?

FREEMAN: Yeah. Or you buy an airplane.

CHS-2: What does Mark and Jimmy say about shit like that? Do they even catch it or do they know?

FREEMAN: F--kin’ A. I mean, I called Jimmy and told him I got busted at Western Express.

CHS-2: What’d he say?

FREEMAN: Oh he knew it.

CHS-2: Oh did he?

FREEMAN: Absolutely. I mean, he knew all along that I was cost-plussin’ this guy. He knew it all along. Loved it. We were makin’ $450,000 a month on him—

CHS-2: Holy shit!

FREEMAN: —why wouldn’t he love it?

CHS-2: Yeah.

FREEMAN: Did it for five years, cost us a million bucks. I mean, we made $6 million on the guy, cost us a million bucks.

...yes, a reminder of the great Jimmy Haslam. I guess a refined punk with the right Daddy and a governor brother and a bestest friend US Senator. He's the best of the best. So you just must assume his underling is making the whole thing up whole cloth. The chances Jimmy goes to prison lie somewhere between zero percent and zero percent.

Sorry, just regurgitating the FBI lockdown thread that ended 7 months ago. Just refreshing what a complete idiot the owner is. Him talking down to Johnny Football pissed me off. As much as I may think Manziel was not a great pick, This imbecile owner upsets me daily...just his simple existence. I'm sick of his continuing existence in the NFL. Simply a very small step above Donald Sterling. Only a small bit more intelligent in giving Manziel the "know your place" speech. What a load of crap this moron is. He's a pile of rancid horse crap. And again horse crap does have useful purposes so equating useful horse crap to this tool Haslam is a disservice to the horse crap.

ahhh, I get it now. Because if there is one thing the great Jimmy is an expert on it's entitled Dbags. As compared to Jimmy, Johnny is a rank amateur at the entitled Dbag game. Joining the Board of Directors of Daddy's company at age 20 in all honesty puts Johnny's entitled Dbagness to shame. Maybe Johnny wasn't doing it right.

Ha! Well done.

It's an "I don't want someone like me to be the face of the franchise - unless it's me" deal.

And so now we get a story today that would seem to indicate that Jimmy was quite the influence in the draft room with regards to Johnny. I like the text, even if you see it as self serving, but fuck, if he busts we'll never hear the end of Haslem pulling a Holmgren after consulting with a homeless guy and JFF himself.

If/when Manziel busts, it won't really matter who made the pick. If Haslam influenced Ray to make the pick, then we have a meddling owner that doesn't know shit about football and we're fucked. If Ray made the call to trade up for a QB with such obvious flaws, then we have yet another GM with poor judgment and we're fucked.

It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

JCoz wrote:It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

I don't see his risk being his personality, personally. In fact, I think the personality, the flare, the willingness to take risks while tying to make plays is a positive.

My concern is the size you mentioned and whether or not he can make plays from the relative safety of the pocket. Because I'm not sure a guy his size (or any size, really) can withstand the abuse of being out of the pocket more than in it, or being out of the pocket as often as he was in school.

peeker643 wrote:I don't see his risk being his personality, personally. In fact, I think the personality, the flare, the willingness to take risks while tying to make plays is a positive.

My concern is the size you mentioned and whether or not he can make plays from the relative safety of the pocket. Because I'm not sure a guy his size (or any size, really) can withstand the abuse of being out of the pocket more than in it, or being out of the pocket as often as he was in school.

But I think the attitude and the personality are actually positives.

I see where you are at there, and I agree with those parts of his attitude, its more the maturity level when he's got a lot left to learn that I worry about. He seemed to improve quite a bit mechanically and in the pocket from the 1st to 2nd years I want to see another few steps forward there, and I don't see why that's unreasonable. I'm hoping that he's going to spend alot more time in the pocket that some anticipate, its not even direct hits I'm worried about, mostly I think about lineman "falling" on him that will do the most damage.

JCoz wrote:It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

I don't see his risk being his personality, personally. In fact, I think the personality, the flare, the willingness to take risks while tying to make plays is a positive.

My concern is the size you mentioned and whether or not he can make plays from the relative safety of the pocket. Because I'm not sure a guy his size (or any size, really) can withstand the abuse of being out of the pocket more than in it, or being out of the pocket as often as he was in school.

But I think the attitude and the personality are actually positives.

I agree with that. By draft day I still wanted Bridgewater more than JFF, but not by much. I just wanted a QB but they were all flawed so I was hoping it wouldn't be at 4. So I guess I got what I wanted in that respect.

I have concerns that his game will translate, but he's our flawed asshole now so I'm hoping he's not a loud mouthed failure. He's certainly got to have more upside than Weeden, Fry, Quinn, et al...right?

But yeah, I don't see how his "fuck you" attitude is a bad thing, unless he sucks, at which point who gives a shit anyway.

JCoz wrote:It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

There's plenty to dislike on film about Manziel.

Personally, I just don't think he has the physical traits/skills to be successful in this league. I also have worries about his abilities to go through progressions and read NFL defenses.

I won't go on and on about it ad nauseum, though. I hope I'm wrong and wish him the best. I'd love for him to be good. But I do expect him to fail and am preparing thus. It's probably just the Cleveland fan in me.

JCoz wrote:It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

There's plenty to dislike on film about Manziel.

Personally, I just don't think he has the physical traits/skills to be successful in this league. I also have worries about his abilities to go through progressions and read NFL defenses.

I won't go on and on about it ad nauseum, though. I hope I'm wrong and wish him the best. I'd love for him to be good. But I do expect him to fail and am preparing thus. It's probably just the Cleveland fan in me.

Why are you worried about his progressions and read defenses? Is this something that he didn't do or wasn't asked to do at A&M? I'm just wondering how he is any different than any other college QB in this aspect. Based on his wonderlic he seems smart enough to understand defenses. I mean, he's not Weeden...

JCoz wrote:It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

There's plenty to dislike on film about Manziel.

Personally, I just don't think he has the physical traits/skills to be successful in this league. I also have worries about his abilities to go through progressions and read NFL defenses.

I won't go on and on about it ad nauseum, though. I hope I'm wrong and wish him the best. I'd love for him to be good. But I do expect him to fail and am preparing thus. It's probably just the Cleveland fan in me.

Why are you worried about his progressions and read defenses? Is this something that he didn't do or wasn't asked to do at A&M? I'm just wondering how he is any different than any other college QB in this aspect. Based on his wonderlic he seems smart enough to understand defenses. I mean, he's not Weeden...

As far as we know, he IS Weeden.

There was some game film breakdown of Manziel done by both ESPN and NFLN that showed him not seeing open receivers and bailing or not going through progressions. He showed a tendency to break out of the pocket if his first read wasn't there. Naturally, it's not every play, but while we really have no clue how he will do in that regard in the NFL (and no fucking wonderlic score will have a say on that), I'd feel better if he'd been better about it in college.

JCoz wrote:It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

There's plenty to dislike on film about Manziel.

Personally, I just don't think he has the physical traits/skills to be successful in this league. I also have worries about his abilities to go through progressions and read NFL defenses.

I won't go on and on about it ad nauseum, though. I hope I'm wrong and wish him the best. I'd love for him to be good. But I do expect him to fail and am preparing thus. It's probably just the Cleveland fan in me.

Why are you worried about his progressions and read defenses? Is this something that he didn't do or wasn't asked to do at A&M? I'm just wondering how he is any different than any other college QB in this aspect. Based on his wonderlic he seems smart enough to understand defenses. I mean, he's not Weeden...

As far as we know, he IS Weeden.

There was some game film breakdown of Manziel done by both ESPN and NFLN that showed him not seeing open receivers and bailing or not going through progressions. He showed a tendency to break out of the pocket if his first read wasn't there. Naturally, it's not every play, but while we really have no clue how he will do in that regard in the NFL (and no fucking wonderlic score will have a say on that), I'd feel better if he'd been better about it in college.

Well, as far as we know he's Joe Montana too.

Is JFF's film breakdown appreciably different than breakdown's of Teddy, Carr, and Bortles? Different than they were for Rogers and Brady? I'm seriously asking. I have no idea.

Is JFF's film breakdown appreciably different than breakdown's of Teddy, Carr, and Bortles? Different than they were for Rogers and Brady? I'm seriously asking. I have no idea.

I don't either. The only one I caught was on Manziel. Maybe they didn't do them on other prospects. I did see enough of Teddy doing it in college to feel better about his chances, but who really knows?

That's why I'd rather put my money on physical skills since intangibles are just so intangible.

He's our Smurf now, so no reason not to embrace him. It's not like he picked himself.

[JUMP TO DIFFERENT TOPIC]

Or maybe he did, if the him texting Loggains who then showed Jimmy who then threw the draft plan under the bus story is true. Combine that with the Bridgewater card changed at the last second story and Ray Farmer's "I ain't tellin' you shit" press conference, and we've got the makings of a classic Cleveland Browns-esque front office!

JCoz wrote:It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

There's plenty to dislike on film about Manziel.

Personally, I just don't think he has the physical traits/skills to be successful in this league. I also have worries about his abilities to go through progressions and read NFL defenses.

I won't go on and on about it ad nauseum, though. I hope I'm wrong and wish him the best. I'd love for him to be good. But I do expect him to fail and am preparing thus. It's probably just the Cleveland fan in me.

I didnt say there wasnt anything to dislike, just that Weeden had more to dislike. And I guess thats where I am seeing something different, because I dont see him as lacking the physical traits/skills, beyond the size with regards to injury. Far from a finished product sure, but not incapable if he can somehow avoid injury, which he probably wont.

JCoz wrote:It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

There's plenty to dislike on film about Manziel.

Personally, I just don't think he has the physical traits/skills to be successful in this league. I also have worries about his abilities to go through progressions and read NFL defenses.

I won't go on and on about it ad nauseum, though. I hope I'm wrong and wish him the best. I'd love for him to be good. But I do expect him to fail and am preparing thus. It's probably just the Cleveland fan in me.

Why are you worried about his progressions and read defenses? Is this something that he didn't do or wasn't asked to do at A&M? I'm just wondering how he is any different than any other college QB in this aspect. Based on his wonderlic he seems smart enough to understand defenses. I mean, he's not Weeden...

As far as we know, he IS Weeden.

There was some game film breakdown of Manziel done by both ESPN and NFLN that showed him not seeing open receivers and bailing or not going through progressions. He showed a tendency to break out of the pocket if his first read wasn't there. Naturally, it's not every play, but while we really have no clue how he will do in that regard in the NFL (and no fucking wonderlic score will have a say on that), I'd feel better if he'd been better about it in college.

I feel like he improved between his 1st and second year starting, and he can either continue that or not I dont know, but we'd have a more complete picture if he'd have stayed a third season as a starter.

Or maybe he did, if the him texting Loggains who then showed Jimmy who then threw the draft plan under the bus story is true. Combine that with the Bridgewater card changed at the last second story and Ray Farmer's "I ain't tellin' you shit" press conference, and we've got the makings of a classic Cleveland Browns-esque front office!

And you thought the Three Stooges were gone... :)

Whatever the case, combining the Jimmy takes over the draft story with the last second switch from Teddy to Manziel doesnt really passed the sniff test to me. I seriously doubt that they made that trade up and THEN had the argument over which QB they were taking in that spot.

Or maybe he did, if the him texting Loggains who then showed Jimmy who then threw the draft plan under the bus story is true. Combine that with the Bridgewater card changed at the last second story and Ray Farmer's "I ain't tellin' you shit" press conference, and we've got the makings of a classic Cleveland Browns-esque front office!

And you thought the Three Stooges were gone... :)

Whatever the case, combining the Jimmy takes over the draft story with the last second switch from Teddy to Manziel doesnt really passed the sniff test to me. I seriously doubt that they made that trade up and THEN had the argument over which QB they were taking in that spot.

I don't know what to believe and I'm not really sure I give a damn how it went down.

All I know that the only connection between the Three Stooges and this current... thing... is Jimmy Haslam, who continues to make national news with his mouth and actions (whether true or not) no matter who's sitting in the GM chair.

So, according to the interview, the Browns tried to trade up for Manziel at 13 and balked at the price.

Then they tried to trade up to 16 for Manziel, and balked at the price.

At this point, they were fortunate (in their eyes) he was not taken. But clearly, the group decision was he was worth 26 + another pick. I am guessing the offers to get to 13 and 16 and wherever else they tried were no worse than what they ended up trading. Clearly, they did not offer 26 and a 4th to get to 13 or 16. I am sure we can agree with that.

So, how exactly did this text exchange equate to Jimmy running the draft room? My thoughts on Jimmy, or your thoughts on Jimmy, take them out of the equation. Your thoughts on Johnny, or my thoughts on Johnny, take them out of the equation.

Did the text happen? Probably. Did he send the same text to Minnesota or Houston? Maybe. Do I care? Nope. Either he wins games, or he loses games. And last Thursday will have nothing to do with either happening.

I hadn't heard anything about potential trade ups to 13 or 16, but I will reiterate:

I feel Jimmy is the King Stooge. Just bc he fired the other two Stooges doesn't completely negate his Stoogehood. I feel that almost every decision he has made from Day One was a poor one, and I want him to have as little to do with personnel decision-making as possible.

Trading up to draft Manziel seems like the kind of half-assed decision he'd make.

But it doesn't really matter who pulled the trigger. If Johnny busts, it was a bad decision, and either Ray Fucking Farmer (hence known as RFF) made a bad decision and we've got another crap GM or King Stooge pulled rank and we've got a disempowered GM that gets trumped by a fool.

Either way, we be fucked, cuz we ain't getting rid of the King anytime soon.

But if Johnny is good, all that goes away, so let's hope the Triumvirate of Power made a solid choice (for once).

JCoz wrote:It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

This is interesting. Cause I remember some guys at the Wright Place telling me in so many words to "relax" as I was about to gouge my eyes out over the Weeden pick, yet some of the same HATE Manziels chances.

Now, if you wanna hate JF's chances, understood. My opinion, as I've mentioned a couple times, pretty much mirrors Peekers. You are bucking odds to be an excellent NFL QB whomever you are - and Johnny is bucking size, durability and some style odds as well.

But the film? I see MUCH more to like with Manziel than Weeden. Sure Manziel may work out of the pocket too much - but that's no worse than being a statue. Weeden struck me as dumb as a stump - and I was right. Manziel ain't dumb. There was very little evidence of Weeden going thru progressions - just throwing to wide open guys in a horrible pass defensed conference.

Now, simply being better than Brandon Weeden still probably lands you out of the league, and really, what a pretty useless conversation - Weeden VS. Manziel. Just saying that JCoz brings up a curious line of conversation I've noticed as well.

If Johhny can just dodge that big f'ing flag at the opener, we'll already be playing with house money.

I was never in the Draft Johnny camp....at 4 or at 26 or at all. But I am encouraged by one thing, and that is the fit with Shanahan's offense. Remember how good Kirk Cousins looked against the Browns with the game plan of play action passes...rollouts...bootlegs...short to intermediate routes? Kirk Effing Cousins!

Manziel can throw on the run, and he is capable, if not downright dangerous, rolling out with the football in his hands. Yes, he will have learn to hook slide more to avoid getting killed, and to throw from the pocket on 5-step drops, but I think we've seen enough to know he has a decent enough arm to do a fair amount of that.

Agree that the personality is a feature, not a bug. Personality-wise, he is the anti-Weeden, the anti-Quinn, the anti-McCoy..."good guys" all...and isn't that what we have all been hoping for?

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

JCoz wrote:It surprises me that so many on here seem almost totally convinced of Johnny's impending failure. I mean, I personally wouldn't have drafted him just because he has so much risk he brings in personality and size. But I have never thought of him as not having the skills necessary. I think I remember alot more optimism here on Weeden even, even though there was alot more to dislike on film for him IMO.

This is interesting. Cause I remember some guys at the Wright Place telling me in so many words to "relax" as I was about to gouge my eyes out over the Weeden pick, yet some of the same HATE Manziels chances.

Now, if you wanna hate JF's chances, understood. My opinion, as I've mentioned a couple times, pretty much mirrors Peekers. You are bucking odds to be an excellent NFL QB whomever you are - and Johnny is bucking size, durability and some style odds as well.

But the film? I see MUCH more to like with Manziel than Weeden. Sure Manziel may work out of the pocket too much - but that's no worse than being a statue. Weeden struck me as dumb as a stump - and I was right. Manziel ain't dumb. There was very little evidence of Weeden going thru progressions - just throwing to wide open guys in a horrible pass defensed conference.

Now, simply being better than Brandon Weeden still probably lands you out of the league, and really, what a pretty useless conversation - Weeden VS. Manziel. Just saying that JCoz brings up a curious line of conversation I've noticed as well.

If Johhny can just dodge that big f'ing flag at the opener, we'll already be playing with house money.

Interesting point about reaction because I'm the same. I didn't really want him and wasn't enamored with any "1st RD QB" in this draft, but I feel better about JFF than I did about Weeden in real time.

Maybe that's because I'm more hopeful in JFF's ability or maybe it's just because the implosion will at least be entertaining instead of solely imminent and immediate, as it was with Weeden.

peeker643 wrote:Interesting point about reaction because I'm the same. I didn't really want him and wasn't enamored with any "1st RD QB" in this draft, but I feel better about JFF than I did about Weeden in real time.

Maybe that's because I'm more hopeful in JFF's ability or maybe it's just because the implosion will at least be entertaining instead of solely imminent and immediate, as it was with Weeden.

Not me, I've never liked a Browns QB pick less - ever. But I've been wrong before (as I was with Weeden), so hopefully I'm wrong again.

In the end, let me assure you that 1. the majority of fans love the Manziel pick a lot more than the Weeden pick and 2. Weeden really has nothing to do with anything any more.

Weeden is as history as can be. The Manziel pick will have to stand on its own merits.

Hikohadon wrote:Not sure how we get " Weeden is dumb" from him throwing to wide open receivers at OSU but don't get "Manziel is dumb" from him running around in circles and heaving balls up for grabs, but whatever.

As with every QB that comes in here, I hope he's a helluva lot better than the last guy. It doesn't seem like a lot to ask, and yet no one seems capable of it.

Throwing to wide open guys nor running around circles makes one dumb or smart.

Hikohadon wrote:Not sure how we get " Weeden is dumb" from him throwing to wide open receivers at OSU but don't get "Manziel is dumb" from him running around in circles and heaving balls up for grabs, but whatever.

As with every QB that comes in here, I hope he's a helluva lot better than the last guy. It doesn't seem like a lot to ask, and yet no one seems capable of it.

Throwing to wide open guys nor running around circles makes one dumb or smart.

Ever listen to either one talk?

A questionable measure, but I doubt I heard Weeden talk before he was drafted, no.

Hikohadon wrote:Not sure how we get " Weeden is dumb" from him throwing to wide open receivers at OSU but don't get "Manziel is dumb" from him running around in circles and heaving balls up for grabs, but whatever.

As with every QB that comes in here, I hope he's a helluva lot better than the last guy. It doesn't seem like a lot to ask, and yet no one seems capable of it.

Throwing to wide open guys nor running around circles makes one dumb or smart.

Ever listen to either one talk?

A questionable measure, but I doubt I heard Weeden talk before he was drafted, no.

Throwing an underhanded ball that made you the laughingstock of the league - and then throwing an underhanded ball the next week?

Locking on every WR since day one, and never changing?

Throwing countless end zone fade patterns out of the boundaries?

EVERYTHING in regard to processing happening SLOWLY.

TM (who works w/ the Colts - and a few here know) claiming the Colts nixed him off their list cause they felt he was dumb as a stump.

I don't need much more proof - but I got more.

By the way - under 9 1/2 starts for Johhny Football is your free wager for today courtesy of the Lead Man, who will also be exacta booking the 3,7 and 8 at Pimlico this evening in the 2nd leg.

Hikohadon wrote:Not sure how we get " Weeden is dumb" from him throwing to wide open receivers at OSU but don't get "Manziel is dumb" from him running around in circles and heaving balls up for grabs, but whatever.

As with every QB that comes in here, I hope he's a helluva lot better than the last guy. It doesn't seem like a lot to ask, and yet no one seems capable of it.

Throwing to wide open guys nor running around circles makes one dumb or smart.

Ever listen to either one talk?

A questionable measure, but I doubt I heard Weeden talk before he was drafted, no.

Throwing an underhanded ball that made you the laughingstock of the league - and then throwing an underhanded ball the next week?

Locking on every WR since day one, and never changing?

Throwing countless end zone fade patterns out of the boundaries?

EVERYTHING in regard to processing happening SLOWLY.

TM (who works w/ the Colts - and a few here know) claiming the Colts nixed him off their list cause they felt he was dumb as a stump.

I don't need much more proof - but I got more.

By the way - under 9 1/2 starts for Johhny Football is your free wager for today courtesy of the Lead Man, who will also be exacta booking the 3,7 and 8 at Pimlico this evening in the 2nd leg.

Not sure how listing stupid things he did after he was drafted is evidence that we should've known he was stupid at the time he was drafted.

But, again, Weeden ain't got shit to do with Manziel, so he's a non-topic as far as I'm concerned. Sounding "smarter" than one of our former QB's when he talks will mean little once he gets on the field.

Hikohadon wrote:Not sure how we get " Weeden is dumb" from him throwing to wide open receivers at OSU but don't get "Manziel is dumb" from him running around in circles and heaving balls up for grabs, but whatever.

As with every QB that comes in here, I hope he's a helluva lot better than the last guy. It doesn't seem like a lot to ask, and yet no one seems capable of it.

Throwing to wide open guys nor running around circles makes one dumb or smart.

Ever listen to either one talk?

A questionable measure, but I doubt I heard Weeden talk before he was drafted, no.

Throwing an underhanded ball that made you the laughingstock of the league - and then throwing an underhanded ball the next week?

Locking on every WR since day one, and never changing?

Throwing countless end zone fade patterns out of the boundaries?

EVERYTHING in regard to processing happening SLOWLY.

TM (who works w/ the Colts - and a few here know) claiming the Colts nixed him off their list cause they felt he was dumb as a stump.

I don't need much more proof - but I got more.

By the way - under 9 1/2 starts for Johhny Football is your free wager for today courtesy of the Lead Man, who will also be exacta booking the 3,7 and 8 at Pimlico this evening in the 2nd leg.

Not sure how listing stupid things he did after he was drafted is evidence that we should've known he was stupid at the time he was drafted.

But, again, Weeden ain't got shit to do with Manziel, so he's a non-topic as far as I'm concerned. Sounding "smarter" than one of our former QB's when he talks will mean little once he gets on the field.

The Colts....and apparently other teams knew it beforehand.

You are correct, Weeden has nothing to do with Manziel, just that smart guys have a CHANCE to succeed at that position in 2014, dim ones don't. I still think Manziel has too many other issues to overcome, I'm just thankful being dumb ain't one of em'.

You are correct, Weeden has nothing to do with Manziel, just that smart guys have a CHANCE to succeed at that position in 2014, dim ones don't. I still think Manziel has too many other issues to overcome, I'm just thankful being dumb ain't one of em'.

And we have no idea that Manziel won't play every bit as dumb in the NFL as his predecessors.

Nothing about his college play says to me "Now THERE'S a smart QB". I personally have no knowledge of his football acumen. His wonderlic score don't mean shit to me. Someone get the Colts on the line.

You are correct, Weeden has nothing to do with Manziel, just that smart guys have a CHANCE to succeed at that position in 2014, dim ones don't. I still think Manziel has too many other issues to overcome, I'm just thankful being dumb ain't one of em'.

And we have no idea that Manziel won't play every bit as dumb in the NFL as his predecessors.

Nothing about his college play says to me "Now THERE'S a smart QB". I personally have no knowledge of his football acumen. His wonderlic score don't mean shit to me. Someone get the Colts on the line.

If you ARE dumb, you're guanranteed to play dumb.

If you aren't, you got a chance not to.

Again, under 9 1/2 starts for Johnny F. And exacta 3-7-8 boxed for the Preakness.