I'm sorry you've had some bad experiences trying to meet women and that you're now thinking the only women interested in you for two things. I don't mean to sound like a cliche but don't give up, just keep plugging away at it as not all women will be interested in you for these two reasons. We're all different (sorry another cliche) and you just haven't met what I'd call a normal person.

Women have the same trouble too ie meeting men who aren't interested in specific things about us. Being a woman with long legs and a great pair of breasts you'll tend to attract a certain kind of guy who's only interested in one thing etc. We all have to deal with other people's often shallow perceptions, wants and needs. Keep on til you find someone as she's out there for you.

Any woman who complains that other women are "squealing" about women's equality while degrading her own friends just for behaving the way that they were taught to behave is probably lacking confidence. It's a shame that so many other young women think that the women's equality movement is all about trying to get free drinks off of men and such nonsense. It's about equal pay, the right to be safe while walking your own neighborhood, and stopping violence against women. 1 of every 3 women is the victim of violence in her lifetime.

Kiwi, I'm sorry if my comments hurt your feelings. I'm coming from a place of exasperation after seeing so many of my peers forget what women's rights are really about. Perhaps you are very self-confident, and that would make me happy. I just don't see why you should belittle women who aren't self-confident or who are just doing what they're taught to do. You might be surprised at how many women I know who are told by men that they're "unfeminine" if they don't act girly-girly and needy.

Wow, Maximus, comments about Twilight and 50 Shades. Like we haven't heard that before. Come up with something new.

I do understand where you are coming from, but they are not my female friends I was talking about. They are random females that my male friends meet in a bar or at parties etc. I have even heard females having competitions to see who can get the most free drinks. I am sorry but that is just wrong and I can't see how that is taught behaviour.

I have been dumped by guys because I know more about cars then they do and would rather spend time in my garage working on them. I don't do girly girl but I have no issues with that and if a guy does then it is seriously not my problem.

Kiwi, you have my sincere apologies. I stand by what I've said about the need for women's rights to be respected, but I was harsh in my words to you. I'm sorry.

I think that kind of competition is learned through the way that I see young women being taught that we have to be the prettiest, unrealistically sexy at all times, and our bodies are valued more than our minds. When we're taught that our sexiness is all that matters and men reinforce that by choosing to be with women who can "perform" all of the time (that is to say, live by men's standards for their male fantasies 24/7), then that teaches us that we can't just be normal people. It becomes a game. And it's a game that some women take part in because they don't know anything else. If you felt that trapped, you might try to outsmart the game, too. I think it's an issue of self-confidence. Some women aren't so lucky to be told that it's okay not to compete for men's affections. We can just be ourselves and relax, and sex and love will happen when they happen. There are plenty of men who will like us for ourselves, but we have to teach boys that women aren't fantasies. Part of the problem is that too many men expect women to conform to a certain unrealistic standard and never to challenge them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_submissive

I do understand where you are coming from, but they are not my female friends I was talking about. They are random females that my male friends meet in a bar or at parties etc. I have even heard females having competitions to see who can get the most free drinks. I am sorry but that is just wrong and I can't see how that is taught behaviour.

I have been dumped by guys because I know more about cars then they do and would rather spend time in my garage working on them. I don't do girly girl but I have no issues with that and if a guy does then it is seriously not my problem.

Nah... forget responding to Wynter....
She's made up her mind - and as much as it hurts me to be called sexist and classist, it's by someone on the net. And one obviously prejudice. (oh, and I bet it was my sig quote/song that pissed you off, wasn't it?)

As for Blob....(editing this, so I can't see their screen name). It's very obvious you're white knighting here. Playing your own character so girls will go "Oh wow, look at him - showing up the guy on the internet".

Both of you seem to have missed the point, while two people actually fully caught it.

Am I completely wrong if I read your original post as an attempt to look into the female mind from different perspectives (yes, I know, there is no 'female mind', but we all know what I mean) and was I interpreting it wrong when I felt that you were actually hoping that the majority was NOT like the two examples you posted (as examples of your personal experience, not as generalizations of how all women are)?

Anyway, I've totally seen the types of women you describe - I think they excist everywhere and probably always will (long live equality!). There will always be people with an interest in shallow things and who fell they can build their identity stronger around such things. Some are just looking for the easy way to be taken care of I guess. However, I think that goes for both genders - there are also guys who are more than willing to depend on the earnings of a woman willing to provide for them.

Ok, where am I going - my point of view, right. I don't personally fall for money or material stuff. I might be impressed by succes - if it's a consequence of passion and hard work. I don't think I'm attracted to a large cock - though I might be slightly curious :P Anyway, as a single element, none of these will make me interested in a guy.
I like charm. I like a sense of humour. I enjoy intelligence and good conversation. Smiles and kind eyes. Confidence. Heck, I do like guys who act like gentlemen and hold dors and buy drinks - and I can buy my own drinks, but in my experience, guys do not take for granted that they should buy drinks or pay, so when they do, I take it as a sign of appreciation and that they feel it was time and money well spent (I will then buy the next, cause I do not like to feel I owe something, but the feeling of being pampered is nice at times).

I do not think you are the slightest bit sexist! Gender equality for me is not that we all have to be the same, washing out boundaries between men and women, masculine and feminine. Gender equality is that everyone has the opportunity to be equal if they wish! And of course that is a constant battle, and maybe we have to ensure more equality before we can start redefining gender...but that's a long debate.

Just my perspective!

Oh, and I'm a girl - I don't care for being called a woman, or even worse, a lady....

__________________If only closed minds came with closed mouths

"God created man before woman. It's just like when I write. First I make a draft." Karen Blixen

Forgive me for jumping in here but I just wanted to point out a couple things that might have been overlooked in this conversation.

From what I understand, the fact that women are generally attracted to wealth and status comes from a biological urge. It's a survival instinct that ensures a woman can take care of her family and therefore the continuation of the human race. Wealth and status, in this sense, transfers to a sense of security that means 'this man can take care of my children.'' It's exactly the same as a man's biological urge/attraction to a young female because she can carry his genes and pass them on to the next generation. It takes a more mature, self-aware woman to be able to look beyond this instinct, which may be why it seems to be more common amoung younger women.

So maybe a little more compassion is in order here? I'm not trying to excuse superficial behavior or say that it doesn't exist, but just as we don't demonize a man for the almost uncontrollable urge to turn his head when a beautiful woman passes by (especially when she's displaying her assets) we could perhaps give the same understanding to a woman who is suddenly more interested in a man based on his wealth (especially when he is displaying those assets.).

Secondly, wealth and confidence usually coincide. Everyone, both male and female, is attracted to confidence and there is nothing wrong with that. Same goes with things that are generally regarded as 'good' or acceptable by society, such as a larger cock. Doesn't mean it IS or IS NOT good in and of itself, but the fact that it is regarded as such can be a boost to the confidence of the person that possesses it. And when you feel more confident, or sexy, or what-have-you, other people can feel it and are attracted to it. Similar to what happens when I put on a pair of heels - suddenly I feel more sexy and confident, and when I go out into the world I am projecting that image of myself based on the way that I feel. I then go on to have experiences that confirm this, such as more attention from men, sales clerks that are overly helpful, etc. The heels don't make me sexy, but its a boost to my confidence that changes my behavior and the way others respond to me. For a guy, maybe it's a car that makes you feel sexy. Following the same line of thinking, just having that car would make you feel more sexy, act more sexy, and attract those types of experiences to yourself.

I've had women friends come to me in tears because she was rejected over the fact that her date thought she was "too unfeminine" for wanting to pay for her own dinner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_submissive

I have been dumped by guys because I know more about cars then they do and would rather spend time in my garage working on them.

I have to chuckle because both of these things have happened to me. More than once. (OK, not the tears bit. I'm more likely to laugh.) I've also been rejected for initiating sex. "Too forward," I was told by one (but I'll bet that guy is one of the 4000 married guys coming here because his wife isn't interested in sex), and another said he felt "emasculated" because I wanted it more often than he did (and I know that he comes here, he's the one who told me about Lit).

I suspect that part of the reason that (some) younger women are hung up on the trappings of wealth is the "role models" they've grown up with - Paris Hilton anyone? I came of age in the early 90s, and I don't remember there being anyone like that in the media. We had the Indigo Girls and social activism. Then again, I grew up in a very liberal city.

And if you're looking for a woman who wants to be at that charity event, don't look at the perfectly coiffed socialites in lavish gowns sipping champagne - look for the woman with a clipboard in one hand and a walkie in the other, hair everywhere and makeup sweating off, and ask her if she'd like to get a drink after it's all over.

I think you're missing the point of women's equality, Kiwi. So long as we teach young women that they're supposed to be submissive and let men take care of them, and that they aren't worthy of earning equal pay, you'll continue to see young women acting as though men should pay for their drinks.

I've had women friends come to me in tears because she was rejected over the fact that her date thought she was "too unfeminine" for wanting to pay for her own dinner. So long as the standard is that women are "supposed" to act needy and men treat independent women as threats, things aren't going to change.

Most of my friends just reject dates when they don't have the money to pay their own way. But when we earn less than our male coworkers for doing the exact same or more responsible jobs despite the legislation against this inequality, how are we supposed to go on dates? I have financial responsibilities to my family and there are times when I wouldn't be able to go out at all unless my friend offered to pay for my movie ticket. It goes without saying that when my friends are in that position and I'm the one with extra pocket money, I pay for them. We take care of each other. It's also more common for women to be pushed into caregiving roles as their parents and elder relatives age, which is what happened to me. Like so many women, my male relatives aren't expected to carry the load that I have to carry.
But why belittle women for desiring to socialize as freely as men even though we're valued less by society and so usually have less money?

Winter, you're a feminist, good luck to you but reading your posts, you make some good points but some rather blinkered ones as well IMO. For every woman banging the drum for equality, equal pay etc. there seems to be another one that complains they lost the chance to have kids because they chose to pursue a career.

And i just don't get the point about "how are we suppsed to go on dates because we don't get paid as much?" where does that fit in with the disposable incomes of the 'ladette' culture of the noughties for instance?

Women, girls, the fairer sex whatever I may call you without genuinely offending your sensibilities, seem more liberated than ever. Good luck to you but don't go whinging you get a bad deal please.

Truth is, everyone's unique, it's just as tough for men and women and what works for you doesn't work for your friend.

Yes, the feminist movement was essential, society HAD to adjust but it wasn;t entirely beneficial and in the case of certain extremist offshoots was downright absurd and probably set society back a little.

Remember the spate of magazine articles in the early noughties where 'women' 'girls' whatever I'm allowed to call them were becrying the imminent extinction of the 'real man'? (whatever that means).

Location: In the shadow of a Moonlight Butterfly, Searching for a Lithium Flower

Posts: 8,038

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefplease

/popcorn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherJade

Please share!

Heh, it's one of those, isn't it? Almost feel like I'm on the GD board and not the personals. I have some buttered popcorn here if you'd like. No feeding the trolls though... it's after midnight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AG82

Wow - Uhm interesting read! (Why are people so angry?)

Am I completely wrong if I read your original post as an attempt to look into the female mind from different perspectives (yes, I know, there is no 'female mind', but we all know what I mean) and was I interpreting it wrong when I felt that you were actually hoping that the majority was NOT like the two examples you posted (as examples of your personal experience, not as generalizations of how all women are)?

Anyway, I've totally seen the types of women you describe - I think they excist everywhere and probably always will (long live equality!). There will always be people with an interest in shallow things and who fell they can build their identity stronger around such things. Some are just looking for the easy way to be taken care of I guess. However, I think that goes for both genders - there are also guys who are more than willing to depend on the earnings of a woman willing to provide for them.

Ok, where am I going - my point of view, right. I don't personally fall for money or material stuff. I might be impressed by succes - if it's a consequence of passion and hard work. I don't think I'm attracted to a large cock - though I might be slightly curious :P Anyway, as a single element, none of these will make me interested in a guy.
I like charm. I like a sense of humour. I enjoy intelligence and good conversation. Smiles and kind eyes. Confidence. Heck, I do like guys who act like gentlemen and hold dors and buy drinks - and I can buy my own drinks, but in my experience, guys do not take for granted that they should buy drinks or pay, so when they do, I take it as a sign of appreciation and that they feel it was time and money well spent (I will then buy the next, cause I do not like to feel I owe something, but the feeling of being pampered is nice at times).

I do not think you are the slightest bit sexist! Gender equality for me is not that we all have to be the same, washing out boundaries between men and women, masculine and feminine. Gender equality is that everyone has the opportunity to be equal if they wish! And of course that is a constant battle, and maybe we have to ensure more equality before we can start redefining gender...but that's a long debate.

Just my perspective!

Oh, and I'm a girl - I don't care for being called a woman, or even worse, a lady....

Thank you! You got it, that's exactly what I was meaning. And I agree that it goes for both genders, though I think for guys, it's even more superficial. I just don't understand the superceeding of personal taste in favour of... something deemed desireable - IE: I don't think she's pretty, but has big boobs, so I'll go for her (yes, guys can be worse).
It's probably a personal failing on my part though - as to why I don't understand. It's just something that doesn't make sense to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongDrySpell

I have to chuckle because both of these things have happened to me. More than once. (OK, not the tears bit. I'm more likely to laugh.) I've also been rejected for initiating sex. "Too forward," I was told by one (but I'll bet that guy is one of the 4000 married guys coming here because his wife isn't interested in sex), and another said he felt "emasculated" because I wanted it more often than he did (and I know that he comes here, he's the one who told me about Lit).

I suspect that part of the reason that (some) younger women are hung up on the trappings of wealth is the "role models" they've grown up with - Paris Hilton anyone? I came of age in the early 90s, and I don't remember there being anyone like that in the media. We had the Indigo Girls and social activism. Then again, I grew up in a very liberal city.

And if you're looking for a woman who wants to be at that charity event, don't look at the perfectly coiffed socialites in lavish gowns sipping champagne - look for the woman with a clipboard in one hand and a walkie in the other, hair everywhere and makeup sweating off, and ask her if she'd like to get a drink after it's all over.

Fair enough - The current media and sense of entitlement certain people posess, means they want an easier going of things.

And, generally, if I'm at an event, the girl with the clipboard and walkie, means she's working for me... and no way I'm going there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyVer

People are weird. It's just a matter of meeting those whose weirdness you can tolerate or fits your own weirdness.

Fair enough, but from across a crowded room - hard to tell what a person's wierdness is... except in certain places... I know a few good clubs

__________________

Some one take me home... please...

Home
A place where I can go
To take this off my shoulders
Someone take me home
Home
A place where I can go
To take this off my shoulders
Someone take me home
Someone take me

Now tell me: how did all my dreams turn to nightmares?
How did I lose it when I was right there?
Now I'm so far that it feels like it's all gone to pieces
Tell me why the world never fights fair
I'm trying to find

I found no cure for the loneliness
I found no cure for the sickness
Nothing here feels like home
Crowded streets, but I'm all alone
I found no cure for the loneliness
I found no cure for the sickness
Nothing here feels like home
Crowded streets, but I'm all alone

Location: In the shadow of a Moonlight Butterfly, Searching for a Lithium Flower

Posts: 8,038

Quote:

Originally Posted by spicyhot1

I'd like some of that buttered popcorn!

*shares some of the fresh made batch*

__________________

Some one take me home... please...

Home
A place where I can go
To take this off my shoulders
Someone take me home
Home
A place where I can go
To take this off my shoulders
Someone take me home
Someone take me

Now tell me: how did all my dreams turn to nightmares?
How did I lose it when I was right there?
Now I'm so far that it feels like it's all gone to pieces
Tell me why the world never fights fair
I'm trying to find

I found no cure for the loneliness
I found no cure for the sickness
Nothing here feels like home
Crowded streets, but I'm all alone
I found no cure for the loneliness
I found no cure for the sickness
Nothing here feels like home
Crowded streets, but I'm all alone

Location: In the shadow of a Moonlight Butterfly, Searching for a Lithium Flower

Posts: 8,038

Usually harmless doesn't stop scaring people off. Though his stuff was directed at me.

Good use of pontificate! Nice to see $5 words on lit

__________________

Some one take me home... please...

Home
A place where I can go
To take this off my shoulders
Someone take me home
Home
A place where I can go
To take this off my shoulders
Someone take me home
Someone take me

Now tell me: how did all my dreams turn to nightmares?
How did I lose it when I was right there?
Now I'm so far that it feels like it's all gone to pieces
Tell me why the world never fights fair
I'm trying to find

I found no cure for the loneliness
I found no cure for the sickness
Nothing here feels like home
Crowded streets, but I'm all alone
I found no cure for the loneliness
I found no cure for the sickness
Nothing here feels like home
Crowded streets, but I'm all alone

I wonder how many people have been scared off posting because of the obvious and open hostility displayed by Wynter or the antics of Blob?

Wow, open hostility of Wynter?

She has a difference of opinion from what you expected to hear and she is guilty of open hostility?

I find the only one being openly hostile in this thread is you.

If all you wanted was a bunch of women to tell you what you wanted to hear, you should have stated that in your original post.

__________________
If it pleases Him to have me kneel before Him, i will kneel reverently.
If it pleases Him to bind me, i will gladly offer my arms to Him.
If it pleases Him to touch me, i will allow myself to be touched.
If it pleases Him to teach me, i will learn all i can.
If it pleases Him to discipline me, i will accept it with out a sound.
It it pleases Him to allow me to serve Him, i will serve Him with loyalty and devotion.

she thought herself wicked, until she became a little girl with dolls on the floor of the Devil's dark lair.

Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, is something helpless that wants our love.

Location: In the shadow of a Moonlight Butterfly, Searching for a Lithium Flower

Posts: 8,038

Am I in the land of strange comments and failure to read? And I'm qute surprised coming from serene...

I asked for peoples oppinions... and there for couldn not have expected people to agree with me - I just wanted to know what they thought.

The only time I got upset was to be called sexist out of the blue, and again at this. I don't get it.

I'm not generalizing, I'm not painting all women with the same brush, I'm asking why certian people act a way, and how others act in a similiar situation. And all of a sudden I'm a horrible and evil person, especially when I defend myself. Wow.... Ummmm....

Quote:

Originally Posted by sereneone4u

Wow, open hostility of Wynter?

She has a difference of opinion from what you expected to hear and she is guilty of open hostility?

I find the only one being openly hostile in this thread is you.

If all you wanted was a bunch of women to tell you what you wanted to hear, you should have stated that in your original post.