Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider
registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

What bothers me with Lanza's articles that he always uses scientific experiments to support his ideas.For examples,in this article he uses references to some experiments to point out that we create time.

Quote:

Numerous experiments confirm that such uncertainty is built into the fabric of reality. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is a fundamental concept of quantum physics. However, it only makes sense from a biocentric perspective

What do you guys think?You see,it makes sense only under 'bioncentrism'. Or is it one more woo?
Well,perhaps it shouldn't be put on 'Science',but on some other section...
Thank you

What bothers me with Lanza's articles that he always uses scientific experiments to support his ideas.For examples,in this article he uses references to some experiments to point out that we create time.

What do you guys think?You see,it makes sense only under 'bioncentrism'. Or is it one more woo?
Well,perhaps it shouldn't be put on 'Science',but on some other section...
Thank you

that article is very silly it basically takes some QM and then spins a fairy tale out of it. No real reason to say that 'time' doesn't exist.

The passage of events occurs, that is the essence of time, the human usage of that idea does not exclude it from reality.

__________________I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar

that article is very silly it basically takes some QM and then spins a fairy tale out of it. No real reason to say that 'time' doesn't exist.

The passage of events occurs, that is the essence of time, the human usage of that idea does not exclude it from reality.

Hi David,
You see,Lanza even says that uncertainty principle makes sense only under biocentrism.Initially I was baffled but then thought: "Biocenstrism is Lanza's theory,of course he will say everything make sense in his to support his theory.Shouldn't be big surprise

What do you guys think?You see,it makes sense only under 'bioncentrism'. Or is it one more woo?
Well,perhaps it shouldn't be put on 'Science',but on some other section...

This is woo through and through.

I focus on one paragraph that is just plain wrong.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert..._b_774814.html
‘An experiment published in 1990 suggests that Zeno was right. In this experiment, scientists demonstrated the quantum equivalent of the adage that "a watched pot doesn't boil." This behavior, the "quantum Zeno effect," turns out to be a function of observation. "It seems,"said physicist Peter Coveney, "that the act of looking at an atom prevents it from changing". Theoretically, if a nuclear bomb were watched intently enough -- that is, if you could check its atoms every million trillionth of a second -- it wouldn't explode. Bizarre? The problem lies not in the experiments but in our way of thinking about time. Biocentrism is the only comprehensible way to explain these results, which are only "weird" in the context of the existing paradigm.’

The ‘observation’ in Lanza’s paragraph, quoted above, does not intrinsically require living organisms. Hence, biocentrism is not a very comprehensible way of explaining the results. To see this, examine an actual experiment closer.

Here is an article describing an experiment which demonstrated the quantum Zeno effect. The articles has a description of the apparatus, the atomic system and the data analysis. In particular, please look at Figure 2.

Please show us any biological intervention in the experiment taking place after the apparatus is built and turned on.

Hi David,
You see,Lanza even says that uncertainty principle makes sense only under biocentrism.Initially I was baffled but then thought: "Biocenstrism is Lanza's theory,of course he will say everything make sense in his to support his theory.Shouldn't be big surprise

Hi,
yeah it sounds like they have a hammer, so everything is a nail.

QM and the UP do not say that time doesn't exist. It has different meanings at very small scales, but us humans interact with the macrosopic world.

__________________I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar

Robert Lanza, M.D. Become a fan
Scientist, theoretician and author, 'Biocentrism'

Alright M.D. Lanza, I do not think I will become fan.

Good choice, Lanza is a well-known woo-peddler. He's a physician with a nonsensical take on quantum mechanics that he's been peddling for years.

__________________As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

What bothers me with Lanza's articles that he always uses scientific experiments to support his ideas.For examples,in this article he uses references to some experiments to point out that we create time.

What do you guys think?You see,it makes sense only under 'bioncentrism'. Or is it one more woo?
Well,perhaps it shouldn't be put on 'Science',but on some other section...
Thank you

What I suspect from the start is that the two highlighted statements are not identical.

__________________I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!

Posts: 28,268

I must posses some kind of superhuman powers as I have watched more than several pots of water, on a hot stove, start to boil right before my very eyes!
The question is, how can I harvest this awesome power for my own gain?

__________________"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

I must posses some kind of superhuman powers as I have watched more than several pots of water, on a hot stove, start to boil right before my very eyes!
The question is, how can I harvest this awesome power for my own gain?

Keep on practicing until you reach zero point and then solicit money through the web. For only $X, I'll send you my trade secret to boiling water with your brain.

__________________I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

I must posses some kind of superhuman powers as I have watched more than several pots of water, on a hot stove, start to boil right before my very eyes!
The question is, how can I harvest this awesome power for my own gain?

I must posses some kind of superhuman powers as I have watched more than several pots of water, on a hot stove, start to boil right before my very eyes!
The question is, how can I harvest this awesome power for my own gain?

This only serves to demonstrate the proverb "a watched pot is never alone"

__________________What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....

that article is very silly it basically takes some QM and then spins a fairy tale out of it.

But only a very silly fairy tale - that ignores all the conventional means of defining time. There is nothing 'biocentric" about the Heisenberg principal, it's simply a tautology about physical information.

There is no question that there is more to learn about the quantum nature of time, as well as the limitation of an anthropomorphic viewpoint of physics - but Lanza seems heavily invested in promoting a 'voo-doo' position with zero backing evidence.

If his theories are 'scientific'(testable), then as a scientist he should propose a means to test them. Otherwise they are religion & mysticism.

Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!

Posts: 28,268

Originally Posted by hecd2

What's it like?

It was sort of impressive, the very first time I saw it, but over time I've gotten so used to it, I'd rarely, if ever, gave it any thought.
That was, until I'd read the OP, then it was like... Woah, mind = blown. I must have time altering superpowers.

Originally Posted by bruto

Keep on practicing until you reach zero point and then solicit money through the web. For only $X, I'll send you my trade secret to boiling water with your brain.

Now we're talking! What good are time altering superpowers if you can't profit from them?
If I'm not mistaken, 'Zero Point' is the same as 'Pointless', right? If so, I'm pretty close to that now.

Originally Posted by Daylightstar

For what purpose (if any) did you boil those pots of water?

Mainly to generate the unholy substance known as 'Mac'n'Cheese', which, despite my utter revulsion to the substance, my kids love to no end. Go figure.

Originally Posted by Darwin123

Shrewd! No one else asked about the baby in the pot!

No, no, no. What's in the pot is FOR the babies. (See above)

Originally Posted by Kid Eager

This only serves to demonstrate the proverb "a watched pot is never alone"

Isn't it, "A watched clock never tics.", or is it, 'A stitch in time has blown my mind.' ?

__________________"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

It was sort of impressive, the very first time I saw it, but over time I've gotten so used to it, I'd rarely, if ever, gave it any thought.
That was, until I'd read the OP, then it was like... Woah, mind = blown. I must have time altering superpowers.

Now we're talking! What good are time altering superpowers if you can't profit from them?
If I'm not mistaken, 'Zero Point' is the same as 'Pointless', right? If so, I'm pretty close to that now.

Mainly to generate the unholy substance known as 'Mac'n'Cheese', which, despite my utter revulsion to the substance, my kids love to no end. Go figure.

No, no, no. What's in the pot is FOR the babies. (See above)

Isn't it, "A watched clock never tics.", or is it, 'A stitch in time has blown my mind.' ?

Nonononono! It's "a stitch in time causes puckering"

__________________What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....

Robert Lanza is lying, Alexander1304. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is a fundamental concept of quantum physics that has made sense since 1928. Biocentrism has only existed since 2007.

I agree, but I think we can state the case even more strongly. The uncertainty principle in all its forms (the Heisenberg one being just one of many) is a direct mathematical consequence of a mathematical theory which makes no reference to biology. In fact, it doesn't even depend upon any measurements (where stuff like observers and consciousness are usually shoehorned in), it's a property of the wave function itself, at all times.

"To the layman, the philosopher, or the classical physicist, a statement of the form "this particle doesn't have a well-defined position" (or momentum, or x-component of spin angular momentum, or whatever) sounds vague, incompetent, or (worst of all) profound. It is none of these. But its precise meaning is, I think, almost impossible to convey to anyone who has not studied quantum mechanics in some depth."
- David Griffiths, "Introduction to Quantum Mechanics"

__________________"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.