<font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade>But, I have seen a bit lately, of a darker side. <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=Â´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, HelveticaÂ´ size=2> Where ? I havenÂ´t. Show some quotes to back up you claims, and then weÂ´ll be able to look into that. <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> I kind of agree with the rest, but only to a point. I think the reason that people want the forums to stay the way it was, is because that it simply a secure and easy set-up to manage. However, with increasing number of newbies coming in, people start to feel .... vunerable ....., as they no longer have as much control over what happens here, and feel the the vast majority, that are inexperienced, rule, and therefore feel uneasy about it. Also remember, that as people get older, they want a more secure lookout on life, and donÂ´t want sudden (unwanted) changes happening in their life. I suppose that everyone here is content, and some donÂ´t want to try a new change (the new forums) as they are perfectly happy with the current one. It all depends on your point of view, of course ....... <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>

<font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade>But, I have seen a bit lately, of a darker side. A point of view that would prefer a private forum, or club without new people. <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=Â´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, HelveticaÂ´ size=2> The whole thing is that. They are there. But, draging it up, item by item wonÂ´t change it. Just look through some of the discussion forum and off topics as well. This was after all, just feedback, not an attempt to change people. That doesnÂ´t work. Just hopeing more people would welcome some changes, and IÂ´m not talking about forum layout. <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Edited by - Finalday on 8/21/2004 9:15:33 PM

<font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade>However, with increasing number of newbies coming in, people start to feel .... vunerable ....., as they no longer have as much control over what happens here, and feel the the vast majority, that are inexperienced, rule, and therefore feel uneasy about it. <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=Â´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, HelveticaÂ´ size=2> That was my response to your statement. The other stuff .... just stuff that I had to add ..... <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle><img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>

What exactly are you proposing Final? A &quot;private&quot; forum for everyone who has been on TLR since a certain date, or is above a certain rank? Sounds elitist to me; not that thereÂ´s anything wrong with that <img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>.

No Esq, that is the feeling that seems to be coming from some of the &quot;oldtimers&quot; in what they post. I happen to like the openess of this forum myself. Neo, <font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade> However, with increasing number of newbies coming in, people start to feel .... vunerable ....., as they no longer have as much control over what happens here, and feel the the vast majority, that are inexperienced, rule, and therefore feel uneasy about it. <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=Â´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, HelveticaÂ´ size=2> The thing here though, is that the Mods do a good job of keeping things on an even keel and donÂ´t let the total newbi get carryed away. The stratos incident is a good example. They got it under control. But, weather here, work, neighborhoods, you will always have new people coming in and somethings will change. ItÂ´s up to the older ones as to weather it is kept on a good basis or not. This forum has a good rule base from which to do that and good Mods to keep an eye out as well. And, as also been noted in the last month or so, a few of the newbies have moved on, but unfortunantly, so have some regulars. I miss hereing from SS myself. <img src=smilies/icon_smile_sad.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Edited by - Finalday on 8/23/2004 4:29:14 PM

i get the same feeling too, i quite like the idea of the elite forum though <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Edited by - Gowserpaul on 8/22/2004 2:08:03 PM

Out of posters so far, i am the biggest n00b so hopefully i speak for some of us. IÂ´m going to have to disagree with a few things. BUt not in a horrible way<img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> First off, fd, i havenÂ´t seen a darker side to you, the the only one that i have seen is that of very helpful and really nice to us n00bs<img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Which believe me goes a hell of a long way to making someone stay on any site. In fact, i donÂ´t think iÂ´ve been flamed by anyone, corrected yes, which is appreciated, but not flamed. 2) With all the great people on here (as it stands, iÂ´m getting to know very small things about you vets <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> few to mention are indy, grom and sw) you are all really nice people. I stick my nose in to threads in off topic where a lot of you will spend your time now in the hope to make friends their and to join in in things not FL and spend my time in FL discussion in the hope of making friends their too. 3)If there was to be an &quot;elite&quot; forum for members who have been here a certain amount of time, us n00bs will lose the backbone of the site in you vets if we cannot come and post with you. Whilst not knowing anyone here at all well i would personally miss alot of what goes on in off topic because everyone shifted over to the &quot;elite&quot; forum. I hope this doesnÂ´t come across as me having a moan. I have not been here as long as a lot of you, but i for one enjoy your company and wouldnÂ´t want to see something us n00bs have no access to. Edited by - Bret Bretonian on 8/24/2004 2:54:56 PM

everything u said makes perfect sense bret and is the truth as well. old fd is the most level headed and friendly person u could come across. In my case however i have a tendancy to be hotheaded but i do my best to control it<img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>

A minor miss understanding to clear up. I am not asking for a private forum. It was written between the lines by a just a few, I was getting the feel that they wanted it to be one. I happen to like this forum a lot. A couple have hinted I post too much. But, I donÂ´t drink, party and am not married. Therefore I have a bit more time on my hands. I like hanging out here. Its fun and more over, I have met a lot of nice people here. I get to learn new things about computer, modding Fl game, and about people in general. I donÂ´t see a point in a &quot;Private forum&quot; as a private chat room would serve if a private conversation was needed. I was just noticing that a few, not a lot, of oldtimers do not care for the newbies. Newbies bring new things to the table. Ideas, needs and so forth. Some get called on the carpet, but ussually get delt with and modify themselves and life goes on. I have seen some new people introduce some wonderful mods here. As do the older modders. I truly hope I have made some friends on this forum, that we can talk about diferent topics, even if we donÂ´t always agree. I look at it as a chance to learn more than I have, and gain in the end a bit more wisdom. Thats all. <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> Edited by - Finalday on 8/24/2004 4:21:04 PM

@Fd: is that why ou have been posting less? @Bret: Glad you enjoy it here! @Eqs: Why are all the others allowed to generalise everyone on the forums as guys but IÂ´m not allowed to generalise?<img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15

Final - I was just joking, I know what you mean, I have also noticed that same thing with some of the &quot;classic&quot; veterans. sw - YouÂ´re an easier target <img src=smilies/icon_smile_tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> <img src=smilies/icon_smile_big.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> <img src=smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>.

A little more feed back. This is as I have read before suppose to be a Family Oreinted Site. This being the case, a toning down of the sexual inuendoes would be helpful. I have seen some of the young ladies take offence at this and told by some males , using nicer terms here, to back off. As before, Yes, I know everyone will not agree with each other, but, a little curtisy does go a long ways. And for those that want proof, see- <A href=Â´http://www.lancersreactor.org/t/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=2&amp;pagesize=20&amp;forum_title=Off+Topic&amp;topic_title=&amp;forum_id=12&amp;topic_id=34174Â´ Target=_Blank>Link </a> AELK needs to mellow a little, but she does have a point as well. Curtisy as well would be NOT to tell some one - <font size=1 face="trebuchet ms"><BLOCKQUOTE><hr size=1 noshade>If you canÂ´t respect that...kindly **** off. <hr size=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face=Â´trebuchet ms, Verdana, Arial, HelveticaÂ´ size=2> This is hipocritical as well. You tell others to respect your view, but you wonÂ´t respect or even just tolorate theirs. There are many view here I do not like, but tolorate in order to learn more about. If someone does not understand your point of view, expand on what you are talking about, with out willfully offending them. And if they still donÂ´t agree, walk away and let it go. *Gets off soap box* <img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle>

Heh, i had forgotten about this. @sw I havenÂ´t seen you post in at least a week, and in case you are seeing this, i have edited out &quot;guys&quot; from my previous post. I generalise everyone as guys but i will change it to just peeps<img src=smilies/icon_smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0 align=middle> or nothing and just not generalise at all. I apologise.

Final - While I agree with you, I can completely understand GromÂ´s irritation; AELK swas practically following him around the OT fourm, spouting completely inaccurate and grossly generalised sexist statements. Perhaps Grom went a little too far, but AELK was WAY out of line. IÂ´m just glad that somebody told her to stop being such a generalising bigot.

well i going to speak out and say just what im thinking to hell with those vets that want there own damn private forum. lets make the noobs feel even worse. i know Finalday does not want this! but anyone who does is just plaine nuts. if they want there private forum get them all to meet on msn or something. if you are a vet it is sort of your responsobility to make the site that has given you so much something back. although vets maybe the bones and moderators the heart noobs are often the blood n guts of the place. i hope to be a vet and i hope that someday i will have 6000 helpful posts and be a Fleet admiral in rank. but when and if i ever become a wise old vet i wnat to help noobs alot. so sorry if i flew off the handle but man! -DSQrn

Signature from »DSQrn«

_______________ i dont suffer fools gladly , in fact i dont suffer them at all

a lot of us vets do use msn to talk to each other, itÂ´s very usefull for bridging the distance between us, i have good convos with loc,sw,kimk,ff,eraser,wiz,rec, even taw from time to time when hes online. When i first arrived at Tlr well over a year ago now i wanted to make friends and be well known in the forums both of which i have succeded in doing. I was only joking earlier when i said i liked the idea of the elite forums because i think its a dumb idea which would inhibit the amount of new ppl staying at tlr longterm