Many have experienced more than one Dday and additional DDays during R with the same AP. How does one know the affair is really over or that they have gone further underground.

Posts: 4 | Registered: Jul 2014

authenticnow♀ 16024Member # 16024

Posted: 6:54 AM, July 15th (Tuesday), 2014

Hi Awaken,

Welcome to SI.

The best advice on SI is to trust your gut. Many BSs just 'know'. But if you're leery because you're not trusting your gut at the moment because you've just been blindsided or you're just having trouble trusting anything at this point, many BSs stay hypervigilant, expect total transparency from their WS, and stay open to and aware of signs around them.

A lot of times, just the way the WS is acting is very telling.

Some BSs insist on the WS taking a polygraph test.

These are all ways of knowing, none of which are completely foolproof.

Keep posting. I'm glad you found us.

"What the everloving fuck?!?!?!" -Solus sto

Posts: 41594 | Registered: Sep 2007

Hatemyhusband41633Member # 41633

Posted: 7:40 AM, July 15th (Tuesday), 2014

You make plans and assume A is not over. You see an atty, u prepare for u and kids (if u have any). Then u tell him, if you do if out he has contact with any woman, you will proceed w plans bc u are not a doormat and u know u can take care of yourself.

You look into it, trusting your gut. Check phone records, call at unexpected times. Then you do exactly what you said you will do.

My opinion. Good luck. Hope for your sake it is over

Posts: 510 | Registered: Dec 2013

tl502♀ 42607Member # 42607

Posted: 8:00 AM, July 15th (Tuesday), 2014

My fwh decided 2 months after dd1 that he could still be friends with his fap. I discovered his secret email acct 16 months later. He was doing all the right things, and saying all the right words, but something felt off. Of course, I was going through the first 18 months after finding out and knew that was at least part of it.
The difference between the last 16 month and that time is that he is more at peace with himself. He has become more giving to his family. He engages in more conversations because he can more comfortably do so since hes not guarding secrets.
I highly recommend keyloggers and vars if they give you peace of mind. Fair game as I see it.
You never really know, as evidenced by some of the syories here on si, but if you are watchful, the evidence will turn up if something is wrong.

Married 30 yrs.
dd1 9/10/2011 ea/pa
DD2 3/25/2013 same ow, never stopped email and phone contact.
Putting the past behind us and moving forward together

Posts: 556 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: big blue nation

ncharge♀ 42365Member # 42365

Posted: 9:26 AM, July 15th (Tuesday), 2014

Something felt off for me after we R'ed, too. It turns out he thought they could be friends. My gut was right, through several months and ddays. Now, my gut is finally telling me that it is over. You just seem to know.

Posts: 149 | Registered: Feb 2014

seethelight♀ 43513Member # 43513

Posted: 9:54 AM, July 15th (Tuesday), 2014

Awaken:

In Shirley Glasses book about infidelity, titled "Not just friends".

She talks about setting aside a detective fund.

This way, if you feel she is engaging in suspicious activity, you can check.

The periodic agreement to take a polygraph is also suggested in infidelity books.

Otherwise, there is no way to know.

I talked to my husband on the phone minutes after he had run into the Former OW and spent 20 minutes talking to her on the street. He sounded fine, even affectionate, and I would never have suspected anything was awry, had I not been alerted by anonymous letter.

That meeting broke his agreed upon absolute No contact, and continued meetings could have enabled the OW to rekindle the affair, and she was trying to do that.

I was lucky in that someone reported his meeting to me anonymously, too, because the letter mentioned that he had met with her to talk on the street at least six times since agreeing to no contact.

[This message edited by seethelight at 9:55 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)]

ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014

ascian♂ 40304Member # 40304

Posted: 1:46 PM, July 15th (Tuesday), 2014

Part of R for me was accepting that I can't, not really. I have no evidence of a continuing affair, nor do I have any suspicions here a year out, but I've had my crazy days. My "tear through her e-mail and chat-logs" or "obsessively check the [home] network logs to see where she's been going online."

And part of what reassures me about the future of our relationship is that my wife puts up with that, not even giving a hint of any discomfort she feels until I'm ready, later, to talk about it.

Me - BH 40
Her - FWW 37
D-Day: 8/13
Working on R

Posts: 329 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Midwest

movingforward26♀ 44118Member # 44118

Posted: 4:39 PM, July 15th (Tuesday), 2014

Awaken:

In my opinion the best thing you can do is trust your spouse and communicate your insecurities to them. If you chose to R then it is impairative that you move forward. Part of R is learning to trust again after the betrayal.

Your spouse should calm your insecurities and show you every day that they are 100% dedicated to R.

I am currently on week three of my R and I have found that when I feel that insecurity to communicate my fears amd feelings but never throw what happened in my spouses face. Also i focus on moving forward. After all i made the decision to forgive and until my spouse gives me a reason to believe he is not 100% in this with me i have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Trust is something that is earned back day by day.

I would suggest to not focus on if there is still an affair happening but on the R.

Good luck!
I hope this helps!

Posts: 13 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: movingforward26

UndecidedinMA♀ 33732Member # 33732

Posted: 7:09 PM, July 15th (Tuesday), 2014

Because I checked his ass at every turn. I GPSd, VARd, insisted on total transparency. I let everyone know & he had eyes on him everywhere.

He also knew I gave no quarter - no 2nd chance - no replay - I was one & done. So if he wanted me & R if I asked him to do anything, he better do it. This lasted about a year. The one time he bucked, I started packing. He has to know you are willing to leave - you are willing to cut him out of your life.

It is like warfare, you show the enemy weakness and the will exploit it.

My best advice to anyone Ring, you need to have follow through, that is your real power. Say it = mean it = do it!!

I think you trust yourself enough to know that you won't be able to prevent a second affair, but you will for sure eventually find out. Trust WS to know this too, and trust them to know the unequivocal consequences. It was hella hard to give shot at a second chance, and for most of us, there won't be a third chance.

I love my wife, but if she doesn't care enough to be faithful after what we have been through, I have to live apart from her. A second dday will destroy me and our marriage completely. I may rise from the rubble, but the M won't.

I'm trying to trust my W after her EA with a colleague from another town.

There has been contact from the OM for over a year, text, email...and they see eachother at work conferences a couple times a year. I trust my W it's over, but she is not able to tell me if he contacts her. In her mind it's over so it's not worth upsetting me. This attitude just fuels my suspicion and that she hasn't told me the truth about everything, including that nothing happened at a conference early on when their was a relationship with the OM.

I brought up a few conditions last year and one was a polygraph. She absolutely refused it. Knowing my wife, I can see why. This is a high stakes gamble as if they refuse.

AS for transparency and honesty, she argues I'm not honest with her (I promised I wouldn't look at her phone, Ipad, etc without telling her) if I check her things behind her back, and that she is ok if I mention it or we do it at night. I hate the idea that this is a negotiation and that I'm the one that had the trust broken. She claims she knows she's the bad one, but she tried to fix our marriage before this all happened because she wasn't happy, so now this stresses me out since I feel deep down she blames me for what happened.

Do I believe it's over, yes. Do I think I've been told everything, no. This is what makes our reconciliation hard and why we keep going back to the past.

Sorry if I digress, I've posted in a few threads as I see similarities with many of the people on here and hope I can provide some comfort they are not alone.

Posts: 39 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Canada

JLyn1128♀ 41915Member # 41915

Posted: 11:10 AM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2014

How do you know?? Oh, God. I have to have a sense of humor about it. Before I start...I'm not suggesting anyone take this as advice, it was my own personal, painful road. 1) after I took a rubber mallet and destroyed his laptop... I realized that was childish and not helpful, so I bought him a new laptop. He hasn't even taken it out of the box. I think he knows that once he has another portal into the possibility of contact I won't rest easy. 2)I have a keystroke logger on my laptop that he uses instead, and I have tracking on his cell phone that tells me exactly where he is, all day long. 3)I've made a particular enemy of the OW. She became very abusive with me by text and letters. I respond EVERY time to remind her of what a snaggletooth whore she is and how insignificant she really was. Her tirades at me assure me that he isn't contacting her. It becomes a kind of perverse pleasure every time I get one of her ugly texts, which I share with him so he knows exactly what kind of crazy he brought into our lives. She'll either move on or jump off a bridge, I don't care which. (I don't hate her because she slept with him....I hate her for her treatment of me afterwards. That's earned her my disgust forever).

In short, trust again???? Nope, sorry. If that EVER comes, it will be years. He's been with her 3 times now, and I let it go the first two. I won't make that mistake again and he knows he deserves my mistrust. She's on my radar and he's in my sights all the time. It's not as restrictive as I make it sound, for him anyway. It's just part of my life now, like arthritis. Annoying, but something to deal with.

Me BSO 62
Him WSO 62
Together 29 years, living together 17. He's been with her off and on for half of that.
OW - Available. Thinks 'love' is in the way he looks at her.
Status - R and hopeful

Posts: 107 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: CA

lostworld♀ 19197Member # 19197

Posted: 1:00 PM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2014

It seems so simple, but for me it was really to trust my gut, my spidey sense. Having now been through a False R and the real deal, I can say that during the False R, I just couldn't settle myself. I was always afraid, unsure, unsettled. I never felt any better, only worse. In real R, my gut is quiet and healing happens. Every week something felt a little less strangulating. Of course the lie detector 3 months into the beginning of real R helped quite a bit!

JLyn1128, great advice and believe me, I've broken a few things, unfortunately one was my hand when I punched a door out of frustration last year when I knew he contacted her and she acted as if it was nothing. I would love to destroy the computer but it's a work one, as is her phone and ipad so I can't load any apps in. I did have a software that retrieved deleted text messages and that's how I found out the extent of the A when it went on for 5 weeks after DD. She says shortly I did the retrieval she ended it and in her mind it's been over ever since,although he still sends the odd message (most recent one was a couple pics of his flowers in the garden at his house). When they had their EA they used Whatsapp and there is no way to retrieve deleted files from there unless you download a spy app, which since it's a company phone, I can't do that. Besides, I believe it's over, but the other issues, like reaction makes it hard to move on.

Posts: 39 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Canada

somanyyears♂ 26970Member # 26970

Posted: 10:25 PM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2014

..

I had to respond..

How does one know the affair is really over

In my case, the OM was dead before I found out the real truth. So, yes, it was over!

..and

or that they have gone further underground.

..happily, only he 'went underground'... about 6 feet to be exact!!!

..sending you good wishes and prayers for eventual peace and harmony in your life.

smy

trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 67
Her 63
Married 42 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bff/lawyer !!

Posts: 4265 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs

lilflower1000♀ 36634Member # 36634

Posted: 11:10 PM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2014

Because I checked his ass at every turn. I GPSd, VARd, insisted on total transparency. I let everyone know & he had eyes on him ever

ywhere.

^^^^ this^^^^^
I trusted him during early R and found out I was in false R several times. The best thing I ever did was monitor him in every way possible. DO NOT reveal your sources.. Especially early on.. And as with Undecided, I also made sure everyone knew. I was really surprised to find who was there for me and who supported him in his infidelity. It is kind of like quitting smoking the more who know the more support you get and you feel really badly if you smoke in front of people who know you're quitting.

Once things were really over, he did not care if I monitored him. To me if he gets mad when he catches you monitoring him it is a red flag. My WS even encouraged me to monitor him so I could have piece of mind and he could prove he wasn't doing anything.He began calling me to let me know where he was at all times to the point where it got a little irritating after a while.. ( during false R he would get irritated with me calling him at work etc) The other major change was that there was no more pouting or acting distant. He began wanting to do everything together. He began going out of his way to plan date nights and time alone with me and began remembering all of my triggers and did what he could to help me out without getting annoyed with me.( nearing 2 yrs and he still does this)

I'm not sure my gut was very telling early on. By best friend's gut was much more telling. I guess I just wanted to believe him, but luckily she dug into it for me and helped find evidence. If you have a close friend they may be able to spot things from the outside that you are unable to see from your perspective.
Good luck to you

After all i made the decision to forgive and until my spouse gives me a reason to believe he is not 100% in this with me i have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Recipe for potential disaster in my book. At this stage in your recovery, I'd be trusting but verifying. Don't make it too easy for him to drop back into old patterns. Just because he says he's finished with her doesn't make it so. Ask any number of people on here.

somanyyears you are a riot!

Seconding that.

[This message edited by lynnm1947 at 11:08 AM, July 17th (Thursday)]

Age: 64..ummmmmmm, no...............65....no...oh, hell born in 1947. You figure it out!

"I could have missed the pain, but I would have had to miss the dance." Garth Brooks

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Toronto, Canada

Rebreather♀ 30817Member # 30817

Posted: 7:07 PM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014

Recipe for potential disaster in my book. At this stage in your recovery, I'd be trusting but verifying. Don't make it too easy for him to drop back into old patterns. Just because he says he's finished with her doesn't make it so. Ask any number of people on here.

Agree 100%. The last thing you should be doing right away is trusting your spouse. Cheaters lie and it takes time for them to come out of that mindset and practice living authentically.

Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Rec'd.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6872 | Registered: Jan 2011

UndecidedinMA♀ 33732Member # 33732

Posted: 7:24 PM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014

Once things were really over, he did not care if I monitored him.

ITA!! He so easily opened everything that if it was underground I could find. It helped he was technology challenged & my DS is an IT specialist OK before I get don;t involve DS, he was there when I found out, plus he was 25 & a married Dad at the time.

Hell to this day when he gets home he puts his phone face up on the coffee table.