As many of the people of this site might already know, I have now for quite a long time been working on a remake of my older game named Hydro Hydra. The game has been rewritten from scratch, using a much updated version of my game library.

[size=14pt]The game has been released on the Chrome Web Store![/size]Please help support the game. Share / Buy: Hydro Hydra - 2nd Dive

Gameplay:Eat the other creatures and avoid danger while you evolve in order to grow into the mightiest creature of the all!

Issues addressed / Updates:New Fullscreen modeNow has an auto-save feature.New achievement system (interacts with the game).Performance increase and stuttering fix.Increased stability and system support.Hopefully improved graphics and audio.Decreased size using ogg vorbis compression.

CreditsGame design, programming, graphics and user tests are all made by me.Sounds and music is made by my friend Bjørn Jacobsen from Cujo SoundThe game uses LWJGL for graphics and audio, as well as Ogg Vorbis SPI

Feedback and progressionAs the game is in the final phase before I officially release it, I would like to hear as much feedback as possible, be it positive or negative. I really appreciate anything and everything. :-)

At the time of writing I'm working on the audio with Bjørn.

Version ConsfusionI'm not quite sure what to do with the title in order to avoid confusion with the older but (very) similar version.I feel it's a remake rather than sequel, so calling it Hydro Hydra 2 seems false(?). For now it has the subtitle: 2nd Dive, but as with everything else, I'm open for ideas

There was some confusion about what comments related to what version, I hope this thread will help avoid further misunderstanding...

Version ConsfusionI'm not quite sure what to do with the title in order to avoid confusion with the older but (very) similar version.I feel it's a remake rather than sequel, so calling it Hydro Hydra 2 seems false(?). For now it has the subtitle: 2nd Dive, but as with everything else, I'm open for ideas

Instead of a subtitle you could just add another word(s) to the title, e.g. like 'Hydro Hydra Ultimate Edition' or 'Hydro Hydra Extreme', 'Hydro Hydra Rebirth', 'Hydro Hydra Evolution', etc.

I did get a "Do you wish to block this code" message which you have to click "no" to, maybe Apo clicked "yes".To get rid of that message, Scarzzurs you need to sign every single jar file.

Hehe no I didn't click yes. On my desktop pc at home everything works fine. The Java version on my laptop is Java 6 Update 26. Really nice and polished. =)And I agree with Riven it was fun to discover what is good and what is bad.

Thanks for the comment. :-)I'll try to come up with better ways of explaining it.

IMHO it's much more fun to discover that by trial and error.

Yeh, that's what I thought before as well. However a lot of people mention this stuff, so there might be something to it. I'm glad to hear the opposite view too, as people don't often comment if they feel it works. :-)

At one point I thought about implementing a mode selection between "explore" and "guided". Maybe I get around to try that... I'll do some more user tests and see what happens :-)

The game has been updated with:- New "Achievement Completed"-dialogue- Percentage to achievements (might need more work)- New "How To Play"-screens- Previously described deployment changes- General engine updates

I played for thirty minutes, and now I'm totally chilled. It's a lovely, ambient, Osmos-y game.

Some random thoughts:

First, I've got to say that even after growing seven tails, I'm still not sure I understand what's going on. (Also, I never played the original version.) That may explain some of the following...

The "How to Play" screens felt like they contained too much text (and didn't make much sense at the time since I read them before playing the game). Pruning the text, using pictures instead of words, or somehow delivering the information in-game would be good if you can do it.

The game window felt quite small and cramped (even on the low-resolution screen of my laptop). I could understand if the game were an Applet, but as a separate window it felt like it should be bigger. (If there's an option to enlarge it I didn't notice.)

The creature colours in the game are not very distinctive. In particular, the green creatures look a lot like the background. Fair enough, I can believe this is a deliberate design decision (to give the game a murky-depths feel), but I figured it's worth mentioning.

I didn't feel there was quite enough feedback telling you whether you're doing something good (eating) or bad (getting hurt). This doesn't help when (as others have said) you have to figure out by trial-and-error what the other creatures do. In particular, it was only when I looked at the "Achievements" screen that I realized I wasn't supposed to be running away from the pink creatures.

Similarly, I was surprised to realize that I'd lost a tail (and effectively gone back a level). Seems like something I should've noticed (sirens, flashing red lights, etc.).

In your description of the game above: "grow into the mightiest creature of them all!" Well, that happens very early on! How about having some scary-big versions of the nasties float by from time-to-time on later stages to give you a sense of how much you still have to grow.

I didn't like the look of the cursor. I don't know why, it just looked out-of-place somehow.

I felt that there was a bit of tension between the relaxed, almost goal-less, drifting around, and the sudden "Achievement" and "Stage Complete" screens that pop up. Like on the one hand the game is telling me to chill out, and then it's all: Do Stuff! Now!

Right up until the game started I thought it was going to be a shoot-em up. I don't know why, but for some reason the title Hydro Hydra makes me think Bullet Hell. Not that I'm expecting you to change the title, but... well... maybe.

I played for thirty minutes, and now I'm totally chilled. It's a lovely, ambient, Osmos-y game.

Some random thoughts:...

Wow... I was afraid this would happen. You have pretty much pointed out every fear and concern I have recently had about the game. I hoping it was just me, but now that doesn't seems to be the case, I am even more puzzled on how I may overcome these issues. On the other hand, I am now certain that I should try to fix them and not just hide them away in the back of my head for future headaches. In any case, I am extremely grateful that you took the time to analyse it thoroughly and write down your thoughts. For what it's worth, I have awarded you a JGO-medal :-)

The things I think I can address:

The "How To Play" screens: I will try to cut down the text as much as possible, and see if I can get some pictures in there, like you suggested. However I have been hesitant to add picture since the in-game graphics are subject to change, and I was trying to avoid doing the same screenshots over and over. However, I believe you are right in that they will lighten and clear up the information.

The feedback issues: It is my hopes that audio will be able to generate this feedback that you and many others miss. If that fails, I will have to see what I can come up with.

The cursor: I've tried to figure this one out of couple of times, but never really came up with something better, so I am open to ideas here. I am still not sure what it is that makes it seem out of place. Is it the figure? Is it the color? Is it the blend mode?

Creatures vs background: I might be able to make the shapes more distinct by adding a fatter cartoon-like border to creatures shapes. However, I believe I have tried something similar before with little luck. I will try it again, never the less.

The things I find hard or even impossible to fix are:

The flow troubles: I need to have breaks of the game flow, to allow the player to select an upgrade (showing an overlay menu during gameplay would hardly help avoid the breaking the flow, in my opinion). Before I had the achievement dialogue, no one would realise the game had achievements, causing them to introduce guesswork as to how you'd move along in the game, and causing confusion when you didn't level up as expected. Only thing I can think of that would help is slowing down the game when the menues appear, rather than stop the game instantly. This on the other hand might introduce other annoyances, if timed poorly (consider leveling while being chased by a red creature)

Lack on anticipation I am not sure how I would be able to show the larger creatures beforehand. Screenshot in the How To Play screens can do this to some extend, but at the same time, it's only very few player who reads these. I could also do what was done in fl0w, showing the larger creatures in the background. However, my personal pride and respect for that game is holding me back. Also, it would take some work, if I was to have parallax scrolling on these background creatures.

Regarding the cramped resolution: Did you notice and try out fullscreen? I suspect this would solve most troubles. The current resolution was indeed decided with applets in mind. I am not sure if lwjgl windows allow resizing, but if they do, that might help me out as well (the game pretty much allows arbitrary dimension ratios)

Again, thanks a lot for the comments. I'm glad you didn't give up early on, despite the many issues :-)

Wow... I was afraid this would happen. You have pretty much pointed out every fear and concern I have recently had about the game.

Oh dear. As I was writing that message I did think maybe I was being too negative. But overall I thought the game was of such a high quality that it was worth pointing out every tiny niggle I could find (and they are all tiny).

Haha, it's quite alright, I didn't see it as such. Maybe it was my response that seemed too negative XD

I often prefer the negative feedback as it seems to put focus on the things that can break the game.Anyway, I interpreted the fact that you played for 30 mins and took the time for the comments as a positive comment in itself. :-)

That being said, I'm still interested in your further thoughts about the game and my comments :-)

On a side-note, I've received more audio to be implemented today. Hopefully it will improve the game further :-)

The feedback issues: It is my hopes that audio will be able to generate this feedback that you and many others miss. If that fails, I will have to see what I can come up with.

Audio's good. Also maybe making the status info at the top of the screen glow (white for good, red for bad) when something happens, or possibly changing the colour of the player or the background. Or maybe just exaggerate the existing effects -- obviously you've played the game much more than anyone else, so effects that look obvious to you are quite subtle to the rest of us.

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The cursor: I've tried to figure this one out of couple of times, but never really came up with something better, so I am open to ideas here. I am still not sure what it is that makes it seem out of place. Is it the figure? Is it the color? Is it the blend mode?

(Has the cursor sprite changed since yesterday, or is my memory really that bad?)

The cursor seems bright and hard-edged compared to everything else. But then if it were duller and fuzzier it would look like just another game creature. Maybe you could use the same sort of colour scheme as in the rest of the game, but with an abstract cursor shape, like six dots spinning around in a circle, or the head of an arrow (pointing in the direction the player's moving)?

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Creatures vs background: I might be able to make the shapes more distinct by adding a fatter cartoon-like border to creatures shapes. However, I believe I have tried something similar before with little luck. I will try it again, never the less.

Maybe just try making the creature colours a tiny bit brighter (or the background objects a tiny bit darker). If that doesn't look better then forget about it.

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The flow troubles: I need to have breaks of the game flow, to allow the player to select an upgrade. [...] Only thing I can think of that would help is slowing down the game when the menues appear, rather than stop the game instantly. This on the other hand might introduce other annoyances, if timed poorly (consider leveling while being chased by a red creature)

Maybe a slow transition in and out of the menus would be enough to maintan the mood: the sound starts changing, the status text at the top of the screen changes, the game slows down to a stop, and finally the menu appears, with the whole transition taking maybe two seconds.

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Lack on anticipation I am not sure how I would be able to show the larger creatures beforehand. Screenshot in the How To Play screens can do this to some extend, but at the same time, it's only very few player who reads these.

I wouldn't explicitly show any creatures on the "How To" page, except the ones that appear in the first couple of stages. If you want to describe other creatures then maybe you could only show part of them. The player should have to work for the full reveal!

When a new game rule is introduced at a later stage (e.g., run away from red things) could that be explained by a special help screen at the start of that level?

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I could also do what was done in fl0w, showing the larger creatures in the background.

Actually for the larger creatures, I was thinking more along the lines of having (e.g.) a red creature that's twice as big as the player, but slow-moving and not interested in chasing the player -- at least not until the player gets bigger!

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Did you notice and try out fullscreen? I suspect this would solve most troubles. The current resolution was indeed decided with applets in mind. I am not sure if lwjgl windows allow resizing, but if they do, that might help me out as well (the game pretty much allows arbitrary dimension ratios)

Well... I think I noticed it before I started playing, and decided not to risk it (I've had crashes running games fullscreen in the past). Then I forgot it was there. I tried it out just now, and it works fine, and the game looks even prettier and feels much less cramped.

I don't think it would hurt if you increased the default window size a bit though (making it wider especially). There can't be many computer screens left that couldn't show a bigger window.

Also maybe making the status info at the top of the screen glow (white for good, red for bad) when something happens, or possibly changing the colour of the player or the background.

I actually had a similar idea, which I have already implemented. Didn't quite stand out enough, at least I'd suspect and hope the player would be occupied with survival at that time rather than noticing the colour effect. Well, I'm guessing it can't hurt :-)

Maybe just try making the creature colours a tiny bit brighter (or the background objects a tiny bit darker). If that doesn't look better then forget about it.

I tried out changing opacity and lightness of the background object. However it appears they help against sea-sickness, so they must not blend too much.I have made minor changes to the opacity computation of the green creatures, but I don't expect it to change much. So all in all, I am still not sure what to do...

Maybe a slow transition in and out of the menus would be enough to maintain the mood: the sound starts changing, the status text at the top of the screen changes, the game slows down to a stop, and finally the menu appears, with the whole transition taking maybe two seconds.

I tried out implementing something similar last night, but the menu system wasn't general enough to allow such modification. Hopefully I will be able to test it soon. I still think a more smooth transition to menus is the best way to go for now. I will see what I can do :-)

I wouldn't explicitly show any creatures on the "How To" page, except the ones that appear in the first couple of stages. If you want to describe other creatures then maybe you could only show part of them. The player should have to work for the full reveal!

I'm glad you said this. My girlfriend also had the same comment, so I think the creatures secrets will remain safe for now :-)

Shaders:I'm working on adding optional shaders to the game. I've had some problems with upside-down shaders on some machines, that I am working on fixing.The current version of the game only has a "water ripple warp"-shader for the green foreground thingies enabled.

Future plansMy schedule holds a few more things now that I've begun at the university again, but hopefully I will still be able to work some more on this game. :-)I'll try to look into the "game-slowdown during menu" idea and add/adjust more audio later this week.

What might be nice is a degree of control over what evolution your creature undergoes. I know you get to select what upgrades but it doesn't make too much difference and the end result is always the same.

Very well done so far. Was it even possible to get 10 tails? At 7 it seems currently one is 'trimmed' automatically so you go back to 6. (Your creature bleeds until it falls off although no red creatures are in the vicinity.)

Got 12 tentacles with 65 segments. I fail to see what having more segments and tentacles actually do though.

Tip for "leveling": Just get the reduced poison damage from green ability and eat greens and purples. A big green can give you a whole segment while the poison is not even doing a fraction of the damage it heals (if any at all). When you have 65 segments though you start to "randomly" die because you have 10 parasites on your tails 2 screens away... >_>

So, while I DID sell "one or more copies", it is not exactly because I'm proud I'm going to put this down, but:

Here are some things I have learned:

1. You don't get ANY advertisement for free:The Chrome Web Store does not favour new games in any way, so if you're not Big Game Company(tm), you get no downloads just because you're in the store.I can scroll the game category for minutes without finding my game. All in all the store is pretty much just a payment method (that requires a certain browser) for me right now...

2. Direct download of .jnlp is a bad idea:The store is made for websites or things that appear that way. This means that not only does it seem weird to the user when you instead supply them with a jnlp, but there are some problems that seem to have gone unnoticed: Sometimes the jnlp download disappears after you have clicked the app in the browser, leaving only the browser unsafe download security dialog. My solution to this problem is to simple redirect the user to a download page on my website, where I can then explain what's going on to the user. It is my hope to add the game as an applet on this page directly, but I seem to have struck a lwjgl bug with this approach.

Finally the part you have all been waiting for:

Was it worth it?!:Yes and no. On the positive side the store serves as payment method for my game, leaving me without many worries. It was also good to experience actually selling a game for the first time, no matter how ridiculous the sales count is.On the other hand, I have sold only 3(!) copies after two days in the store, and all was from reletives / friends. This means I have almost broken even, in terms of the one-time payment you have to make, but so far, I actually LOST money, when taxes are collected. Hopefully this will change in the future, but my expectation are lower than ever now :-(

I'm still very much considering direct payment from my own website, but that depends on the hassle I have to go through and the time I have at hand...

I'd try add the game to a few more portals (just throw it at all of them until it sticks somewhere ), Desura, Indievania, Gameolith and GamersGate seem like nice targets for small indie devs, some other targets for LWJGL games available here.

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