--- Log opened Fri Aug 26 00:00:16 2011
--- Day changed Fri Aug 26 2011
00:00 < niemeyer> nteon: tip is fixed
00:00 < niemeyer> itrekkie: congrats!
00:00 < itrekkie> incidently, hyperthreading hurts performance, but I
suppose that's because none of the threads are idle
00:01 < niemeyer> On that note, I'm stepping out for dinner
00:01 < Anoq> str1ngs: https://github.com/mattn/go-gtk/issues/69 is it ok?
00:01 < nteon> niemeyer: thanks! awesome
00:02 < itrekkie> I ran into the same issue with go-gtk, the readme insists
it be installed with make install, afaik
00:02 < itrekkie> and I couldn't get goinstall to install the package
successfully
00:03 < str1ngs> Anoq: do you have a link to this example?
00:03 < str1ngs> Anoq:
https://github.com/mattn/go-gtk/blob/master/example/demo/demo.go seems right to me
00:03 < itrekkie> but if you install it like the github main page says,
isn't that import correct?
00:04 < str1ngs> itrekkie: at one time it could only be installed with make,
but thanks to niemeyer that is no longer the case :P
00:04 < Anoq> str1ngs: ????? I didn't put the url in the issue?
00:05 < itrekkie> ah I see, all for the better I suppose, one package
management system to rule them all
00:05 < str1ngs> Anoq: ah helps if I follow the link
00:05 < str1ngs> Anoq: ok looks good thanks.
00:06 < itrekkie> I played with go-gtk ever so briefly, and all click events
seemed to crash the demos, and some demos wouldn't build and so on, maybe it's
time to look again
00:06 < str1ngs> itrekkie: hm strange I make a go-webkit app and go-vte app
worked quite well
00:06 < str1ngs> made*
00:07 < itrekkie> okay, so for example, goinstall yields:
http://pastie.org/2430693
00:07 < itrekkie> wonder if my version of gtk/glib is too old
00:07 < Anoq> str1ngs: ah... gocalc should be cloned from
https://github.com/mattn/gocalc . If I only know this before.
00:08 < str1ngs> itrekkie: possibly or what version of glib?
00:08 < str1ngs> Anoq: hmm where did you clone it from?
00:09 < str1ngs> Anoq: either way that one example needed fixing so.
00:09 < itrekkie> hm, I'm no expert, as far as I can tell, glib 2.0?
00:09 < Anoq> str1ngs: just from the original. As you can see its "forked
from abiosoft/gocalc"
00:10 < str1ngs> Anoq: ah so the orignal might be old and not maintained
00:11 < Anoq> Q: sometimes I see that instead import "blabla" there is
import . "blabla". See the DOT! What does this mean? I didn't yet found an
answer.
00:11 < itrekkie> doesn't that import the package into the default
namespace?
00:11 < str1ngs> Anoq: dot means you do not need to use the prefix name
space I'll give an example.
00:12 < Anoq> no need.
00:12 < str1ngs> Anoq: import . "fmt" then you can say do Println("hello,
world")
00:12 < Anoq> I just found it ins some source files and didnt underestand.
00:12 < itrekkie> okay, so I'm running ubuntu 10.04, so it's quite old
00:12 < str1ngs> itrekkie: ah that might be it then.
00:13 < itrekkie> I'll try an upgrade and try again; go-gtk seems really fun
:)
00:14 < Anoq> is there any versioning in the packages? I mean something
like in ruby gems.
00:14 < str1ngs> not really, if you use tags though it will use the tags
with goinstall
00:14 < Anoq> cause when there are two project depending on different
version of one package form the same source.
00:14 < str1ngs> ie weekly vs release
00:15 < Anoq> So I can "tag" the package
00:15 < str1ngs> yes you can tag it with w/e version control you use
00:15 < str1ngs> imo if you plan to maintain a package that you want to be
stable I would always target go release.
00:16 < Anoq> And ho can I import such an package?
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00:17 < str1ngs> When downloading or updating, goinstall first looks for a
tag or branch named "release". If there is one, it uses that version of the code.
Otherwise it uses the default version selected by the version control system,
typically HEAD for git, tip for Mercurial.
00:17 < itrekkie> oh, ibm is porting go to ppc? exciting :)
00:17 < Anoq> itrekkie: url, pleas please please
00:18 < itrekkie> just a tweet,
https://twitter.com/#!/ibm_ericvh/status/103547803837534209
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00:18 < itrekkie> http://code.google.com/r/ericvh-go-ppc/
00:19 < f2f> ericvh is in this channel, ask him directly about the status :)
00:22 < Anoq> f2f: i'm short of time. I wrote a note about it. So as I'll
get the time I'll try to find him on blue pages.
00:23 < Anoq> str1ngs: does the "tagging" due goinstall means I can install
only one selected "tagged" version of package?
00:24 < str1ngs> Anoq: as far as I know if there is a tag or branch named
release it will use that
00:25 < str1ngs> Anoq: but yes you can only install one version. does not
make sense to install 2 versions
00:25 < str1ngs> you would need 2 versions of go in that case.
00:25 < Anoq> str1ngs: but when two project depends on different version/tag
of the package. Then how to solve this. ..... ah was typing to slow.
00:26 < Anoq> so there is no way how to include/froze current and/or given
version of package into actual project?
00:26 < str1ngs> no there is no need treally. api changes are easy to fix
and imo should be encouraged
00:27 < str1ngs> what I would do in this case is bring the package that is
using an older api of the package in question. upto speed with the current api
00:29 < str1ngs> most times gofix is all you need. if the api change is
related to go stdlib.
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00:31 < str1ngs> I generally use go tip. and it is very rare a 3rd party
lib does not work. when it doesnt work I simple fix it and where I can push back
to the maintainer
00:31 < Anoq> str1ngs: one really therible example. Imagine I wrote a
software using current "up to date" packages. The compiled binary is used for a
few years. Then I need to do a small change, very small change. For instance
only replace some "hardcoded" value in the program. Then, if I do not have the
original environment, the pure hell happens.
00:32 < str1ngs> Anoq: what you describe is hypothetical . in practice from
what I have seen that is not the case.
00:33 < Anoq> Str1ng: hypothetical, oh man. It hapens to me over and over
again.
00:34 < str1ngs> then maybe a less hypothetical example is in order.
00:36 < Anoq> Str1ng: it's not go specific. I'm just a newcomer to go. If
I do not forget I tend to pack all the source packages in its original form with
the project. (I mean source of the project)
00:38 < Namegduf> Anoq: The Go project is version controlled, and you can
always get a past version if you want.
00:38 < str1ngs> same with most 3rd party libs
00:38 < Namegduf> If you can't get and don't have a third party library,
this counts as "not having the source code for your project"
00:38 < str1ngs> so ya I still see this as a hypothetical situation .
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00:38 < Anoq> yes, bat the same does not always happen with the needed
packages
00:39 < Anoq> s/bat/but/
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00:40 < str1ngs> anyway. I think package version might be a good idea.
00:40 < Anoq> It happens to me that used package after a years just wanish
from the earth.
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00:41 < str1ngs> Anoq: that has nothing to do with g
00:41 < str1ngs> go*
00:41 < Anoq> str1ngs: but have to do with the development in go.
00:41 < str1ngs> no that has nothing to do with go, sorry
00:42 < jessta> Anoq: if you're worried about packages disappearing then
just put a copy of them in your repo
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00:43 < Anoq> jessta: yes, I suggested that couple of lines before.
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00:44 < str1ngs> that for you to do not go imo.
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00:50 < Anoq> str1ngs: some environments have a solution for this.
Sometimes called "freeze". So I was asking, in different ways, if something like
this is implemented in go.
00:51 < f2f> Anoq:
http://blog.golang.org/2011/03/go-becomes-more-stable.html
00:52 < Anoq> str1ngs: you just import your packages. And in some time you
can do "freeze" and current package source are froze to your source code tree.
And the development environment always know that import "bla" does not mean
importing from the system packages but from the frozen ones.
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00:57 < str1ngs> Anoq: go has no way to do this. simply tarball you go tree
and keep your 3rd party libs in your source tree like jessta suggested.
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00:59 < str1ngs> Anoq: if you do not want to tarball the go source tree.
simple save the hg revision to a file. then you can check that revision out at
any time.
01:00 < str1ngs> version.bash -save will save the revision to VERSION which
you can that copy to your source tree. something like VERSION.go
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01:10 < Anoq> str1ngs: ehm...... what version of version.bash do you use?
Or did you mean tar cf - $GOROOT|bzip2 --best
>go.$($GOROOT/src/version.bash).bz2
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01:12 < str1ngs> Anoq: I use tip so version.bash is auto generated. if
though you wanted to freeze go. then you can use version.bash -save then copy
VERSION to your project tree as say VERSION.go
01:13 < str1ngs> you can the use VERSION.go to ensure you are using the
right version of go.
01:14 < Anoq> ah.... I use
01:14 < Anoq> $GOROOT/src/version.bash
01:14 < Anoq> release.r59 8979
01:15 < str1ngs> personally though freezing go is not a good idea. there
are to many good things being added on a regular basis to discount them
01:17 < Anoq> yes freezing go is no good idea on its own. but I was talking
different things.
01:17 < str1ngs> yes so with 3rd party package. if you are afraid of them
going away. simple keep the source in your source tree.
01:18 < str1ngs> there are many ways you can do that. with git I would
clone the 3rd party package and then add it as a submodule. this of course wont
work with hg and bzr.
01:18 < str1ngs> anyways you get the ide.
01:18 < str1ngs> idea*
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01:30 < s|k> the vim syntax plugin formats switches wrong
01:30 < s|k> indents the case statements which gofmt reverts
01:31 < s|k> hrm nevermind, indents it correctly once you add the colon
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03:08 < chilts> awesome, being able to do concurrent reads to Amazon AWS
services is pretty exciting :)
03:08 * chilts throws a comment out there
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03:19 < icey> Does anyone have a good example of a website / web app built
with go? I know Heroku built Doozer in Go, but I was hoping for a few more
examples
03:19 < chilts> Doozer isn't a webapp, it's a high availability storage
system
03:20 < icey> chilts: right, sorry; Doozer was a bad example to use... it
was all I could think of :/
03:20 < chilts> :)
03:20 < icey> TinkerCad is Go on the backend, right?
03:21 < chilts> not sure, though someone else might be able to answer
03:22 < f2f> icey, golang.org is served using go :)
03:23 < icey> f2f: hehe, I guess I should have specified "Non Go-related
website" :)
03:23 < f2f> what are you looking for exactly?
03:24 < f2f> there was a site in vancouver built with go, gave you rent
listings
03:24 < f2f> let's see if i can find it
03:25 < icey> f2f: I've been doing a huge language tour trying to find a
good language for web & general development so I can migrate away from C#. I like
go, but I kind of like to see other people's experiences with tools before diving
in
03:26 < icey> f2f: barring finding blog posts of people using it, i figured
i'd try to find out who was using it at all
03:26 < f2f> oh. can't help you there :) you need to get at least your
finger wet if you want to see if the water is warm :)
03:26 < f2f> i'd suggest you write some code :)
03:28 < chilts> heh, seeing if the water is warm for 'icey' :)
03:28 < f2f> http://qlist.ca/ that's the website
03:29 < icey> f2f: thanks :)
03:29 < f2f> moar: http://go-lang.cat-v.org/organizations-using-go
03:30 < f2f> mind you, popularity contests shouldn't matter, but if they did
(and they do), go isn't going to win outright just yet.
03:30 < f2f> we're biased here, but for us go is a fast language that is
easy to write code with.
03:31 < icey> f2f: I have been writing some go; I guess right now I'm just
trying to get a feel for how stable the ecosystem is, how frequently stuff breaks
in the releases (although gofix has been able to handle everything for me so far,
which is nuts), how quickly libraries are coming out, etc
03:32 < f2f> i have servers that have been running for 8 months now
03:33 < f2f> but that's not a guarantee that your code won't break. go
moves very fast.
03:33 < f2f> it's an active ecosystem with lots of contributors, but that
doesn't mean everything is being implemented just yet, or that stuff that was
working a month ago is still being updated to work with the latest tip
03:34 < f2f> it's livelier than anything else i've seen, but i wasn't there
for python's early years, or perl, or ruby :)
03:34 < s|k> skelterjohn: is there a way to get the benchmark and verbose
output from tests using gb?
03:35 < moraes> i'd say go web is just starting!
03:35 < icey> f2f: do you find you have to implement a lot of utilities (api
interop, drivers, etc) yourself?
03:35 < f2f> no
03:35 < f2f> everything i need is already in the standard library
03:35 < f2f> but i'm not constrained by legacy api
03:35 < icey> f2f: what about for databases / datastores?
03:36 < f2f> the only thing i need is a particular protocol, 9p, which is
done as a separate project
03:36 < f2f> there's reasonable support for databases, but no generic DBI
driver just yet, i don't think.
03:36 < f2f> i used gosqlite for a while
03:36 < f2f> then moved to serialization via json, which works just as well
for my needs
03:38 < f2f> it depends on what people need. mongodb is being actively
developed because the person that needs it most puts the effort. the people start
preferring it to others because it's more complete, etc.
03:38 < s|k> node.js is pretty lively too
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03:38 < f2f> cool
03:38 < chilts> yeah, I'm filling in goamz with more Amazon Services since
I'll be using them in the future (for example)
03:39 < f2f> external library support is still in its infancy, but as you
can see things are moving along :)
03:40 < f2f> s/library/api/ perhaps
03:40 < s|k> maybe someone needs to write a libcloud in go
03:40 < s|k> there is a python and a java version
03:40 < f2f> *puke*
03:40 < f2f> :)
03:40 < s|k> you don't like libcloud?
03:40 < s|k> :\
03:40 * s|k works at Cloudkick
03:40 < f2f> i spend entirely too much time in clouds to enjoy it :)
03:41 < s|k> I guess I should say I work at Rackspace now
03:41 < s|k> :\
03:41 < f2f> openstack, eh? :)
03:41 < s|k> no, I work on the control panel
03:41 < s|k> frontend stuff
03:42 < s|k> Rackspace sees openstack as its future
03:42 < s|k> it's a huge deal
03:42 < f2f> we're deplooying it here and there instead of our in-house
stuff
03:42 < s|k> where do you work?
03:43 < f2f> a university in canada
03:43 < s|k> if you need to ever talk to anyone
03:43 < s|k> on the openstack team
03:43 < s|k> I can get you a direct line
03:43 < s|k> :O
03:43 < s|k> although that's not hard to do
03:43 < f2f> i think we pay gobbles for support :) i've been on a few
conference calls with them
03:43 < s|k> nice
03:43 < s|k> those guys are pretty cool
03:44 < f2f> the platform doesn't suit our needs completely, but with time
it'll improve, i'm sure.
03:44 < s|k> I dunno
03:44 < s|k> don't work on it :/
03:44 < s|k> f2f: so go is just on your personal time then?
03:44 < f2f> we're mostly looking at orchestration and provisioning to
resource-constricted environments where a particular node may not be available at
all times. so we are thinking about migration, etc
03:45 < s|k> ah
03:45 < s|k> that's a tough problem
03:45 < f2f> well, i wrote our original cloud framework, so i'm free to
rewrite it in Go as i see fit :)
03:45 < chilts> niemeyer: if I am changing ListDomains(&ListDomainsOpt{}) to
ListDomains(maxNumberOfDomains, nextToken), then whenever calling ListDomains
you'd have to know what the 'empty' values are to get the defaults? e.g.
ListDomains(0, "")
03:45 < chilts> so isn't the original way a bit nicer?
03:45 < f2f> it's so much easier to write go servers, that it's really a
no-brainer
03:45 < chilts> then I don't have to think about what to pass it
03:45 < s|k> I plan on making Go my primary language at home
03:46 < s|k> Go & JavaScript
03:46 < chilts> s|k: nice ... I seem to use Node and Go for everything
these days
03:47 < s|k> chilts: yup, it's very easy to write a quick script in node.js
03:47 < s|k> and once chrome's nativeclient supports go
03:47 < s|k> <3
03:47 < chilts> niemeyer: and in fact, you can also call ListDomains(nil) to
get all default values in the case where we are passing it a struct
03:47 < s|k> I'm writing app after app in that
03:47 < chilts> which takes no headspace at all :)
03:48 < niemeyer> chilts: Yep.. we don't want to create a struct to pass
two parameters, though
03:48 < niemeyer> chilts: Let's use standard Go conventions there
03:49 < chilts> niemeyer: so when calling the two parameter version, do you
always have to supply (0, "") to get the defaults
03:49 < chilts> I guess there are no parameters defaults or multiple
dispatch in go
03:49 < s|k> no parameter defaults nope
03:50 < s|k> dunno what multiple dispatch means
03:50 < chilts> ie. in that case the max number would be 100 and there is
no next token
03:50 < niemeyer> chilts: If you rarely use these parameters, we can have a
separate function that does not take them
03:50 < niemeyer> chilts: Foo() is even nicer than Foo(nil)
03:50 < niemeyer> chilts: What's nextToken?
03:50 < chilts> it'd have to be a different name aye?
03:50 < chilts>
http://docs.amazonwebservices.com/AmazonSimpleDB/latest/DeveloperGuide/SDB_API_ListDomains.html
03:51 < chilts> if you have more than 100 domains, you'd need to page using
a token
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03:52 < chilts> niemeyer: ok, if I have ListDomains() and
ListDomainsFor(maxNumberOfDomains, nextToken) or something like that?
03:52 < chilts> (or something similar)
03:54 < niemeyer> ListDomains and ListDomainsN
03:54 < chilts> ListDomainsQuery(..., ...) might be nicer
03:54 < chilts> ah, ok yeah
03:54 < chilts> it's a deal
03:54 < niemeyer> chilts: Sweet!
03:55 < chilts> I have some fixes and extra code for s3, ec2 and sdb, but
I'll do merge requests later today (you'll probably get them your morning)
04:00 < niemeyer> chilts: Superb!
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04:40 < str1ngs> f2f: what university? I'm in BC myself
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05:05 < f2f> string, ucalgary
05:05 < f2f> sorry, str1ngs :)
05:08 < str1ngs> ah right on
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05:11 < f2f> where in bc are you, str1ngs?
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05:19 < str1ngs> about 2 hours east of Vancouver. small town
05:23 < f2f> hope?
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05:24 < f2f> i've been through the area on #1, didn't think there would be
many tech prospects there :)
05:24 < str1ngs> not far from hope, chilliwack
05:25 < str1ngs> not many tech prospects. but I work from home so its nice
that way.
05:28 < f2f> in 5-10 years, when working from home becomes more common, i
think i'll be looking at moving close to better skiing in BC :)
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05:29 < str1ngs> you would like it here for sure.
05:30 < f2f> you don't get as much rain as van proper, do you? :)
05:30 < str1ngs> yes its rather mild during the winter. mainly rain
05:30 < str1ngs> but the summers are great.
05:30 < f2f> if you don't mind i'll ping you for more information about the
area tomorrow. i'm interested in knowing more about that part of the interior
05:31 < str1ngs> interior is more dry. ie hot summers
05:32 < f2f> we go camping at salmon arm every summer, so i know the dry
parts around penticton/kelowna/kamloops
05:33 < str1ngs> yep
05:34 < f2f> it's all beautiful there anyways. so much variety!
05:35 < str1ngs> in one day, you can fish,ski,swim
05:35 < f2f> and surf, if you're on the island :)
05:35 < str1ngs> and vancouver has good tech prospects, and good location.
just expensive
05:36 < f2f> a few of my colleagues moved there. they're enjoying it. i am
not a big town person :)
05:36 < str1ngs> oh and they like to riot dure the play offs :P
05:37 < str1ngs> you might like something like mission then
05:37 < str1ngs> Mission is nice and good transit to downtown.
05:38 < f2f> i'm sure even van is better than cowtown. calgary is pretty
boring if you're not in oil :)
05:38 < str1ngs> I though they had a good tech boom there
05:39 < str1ngs> orginally I'm from Ontario, and personally I dont really
miss it
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05:44 < f2f> i did my undergrad in saskatoon, and personally i don't miss it
very often
05:45 < str1ngs> on the bright side you'll never lose your dog in sakatoon,
3 days later you'll still be able to see it running away. :P
05:47 < str1ngs> are you guys teaching or using go at all at ucalgary?
05:47 < f2f> from what i can tell it's only me right now.
05:47 < str1ngs> ah I'm some what older, but that might be a course I would
take.
05:48 < f2f> there are profs that may be interested in it. what i'm doing
is just replacing flakey python servers with ones written in go for external
projects
05:49 < f2f> i'm not a part of the faculty, i work for grid.ucalgary.ca
05:50 < str1ngs> ah that looks instresting. yes I can see go being pretty
useful
05:50 < str1ngs> so far I've noticed alot of python/ruby folks picking up go
05:51 < str1ngs> I hope more C C++ folks do to
05:51 < f2f> i'm a C person, but for the sake of fast prototyping i had to
move to python, turned out that the major pet peeve i had with python was solved
by go :)
05:51 < f2f> C->python->Go
05:51 < f2f> that's my progression
05:52 < f2f> mind you, i'm used to writing C with the threaded library
provided by plan9 (coroutines) so Go was very easy to pick up from that side of
things. don't know how it is for posix-y C guys :)
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05:53 < f2f> i'm an outlier because i come from plan9 world
05:54 < str1ngs> ah, I've for the most part picked up C via osmosis, I tend
to avoid it at all cost.
05:54 < str1ngs> go is great though because it has higher level concepts and
static type perks of C
05:55 < f2f> exactly.
05:55 < str1ngs> python is really good though even though, I opted for ruby.
python just never jived for me.
05:55 < str1ngs> but now I either us bash, or go
05:56 < f2f> thi
05:56 < f2f> oops.
05:56 < f2f> i was going to say that i don't have much experience with ruby
05:57 < str1ngs> imo ruby is comparable with python. ruby is not known for
its speed however.
05:58 < str1ngs> but I find I've just replaced that with bash, since bash is
better for forking calls. which is mainly what I need scripting for
05:58 < f2f> garbage collection and static typing are enough to entice me.
speed of compilation or execution are just a bonus :)
05:59 < f2f> so do you do website backends mostly?
05:59 < tdnrad> Is there a shorthand if statement in go?
05:59 < f2f> tdnrad: no
05:59 < tdnrad> f2f: thanks
06:00 < str1ngs> f2f: mainly I do odds and ends contracts. as few as
possible to keep me feed.
06:00 < f2f> you can use select to coalesce if/elseif
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06:01 < f2f> str1ngs: that's my aim. after early retirement ;)
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06:01 < str1ngs> f2f: the rest of the time I spend tinkering with linux an
open source.
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06:04 < f2f> ttyl, past midnight here
06:04 < yebyen> zzzzz
06:05 < str1ngs> later
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06:15 < tdnrad> Always wondered: Why is importing/declaring something an
error and not a warning? Just for the simple reason that it is useless? I'm
wondering why there is this differentiation from every other language I've used.
06:17 < KirkMcDonald> tdnrad: I'm pretty sure that Go doesn't have any
warnings at all.
06:18 < s|k> I hate warnings
06:18 < s|k> building something and I see a million warnings
06:18 < s|k> does that mean I shouldn't use it? What does it mean?
06:19 < s|k> heh
06:19 < tdnrad> I'm totally in agreement
06:19 < str1ngs> tdnrad: the main reason is to keep booking to a minimal and
accurate.
06:19 < tdnrad> Was just wondering if there was something I was missing
06:19 < s|k> I build Chromium and I'll see warnings
06:19 < tdnrad> str1ngs: Book keeping for.. the compiler?
06:20 < str1ngs> tdnrad: more for the programmer
06:20 < tdnrad> s|k: I build anything on my Gentoo system and all I see is
warnings :P
06:20 < str1ngs> is you dont get orphaned vars and packages
06:20 < str1ngs> ie*
06:21 < tdnrad> str1ngs: makes sense. Gets annoying with my half finished
functions sometimes though :P Maybe I need to improve my habits..
06:21 < str1ngs> tdnrad: you cant help but improve your habits this way
06:21 < str1ngs> it doesnt work on orphaned functions/methods though
06:22 < s|k> hrm
06:22 < vsmatck> You can fool it in to keeping ""unused"" things included.
I do "var _ = log.N" for my logging stuff.
06:22 < s|k> why would it work on orphaned methods though
06:22 < str1ngs> it doesnt, as I stated
06:23 < s|k> orphaned methods might be useful in some other context
06:23 < vsmatck> I wonder how big a difference it would make if Go allowed
unused imports. It certainly wouldn't be as bad as unused includes in C++.
06:23 < str1ngs> it would make a difference since packages are built in
statically
06:23 < str1ngs> so you would end up with a larger binary for no apparent
reason.
06:24 < vsmatck> Shouldn't the linker get rid of unused junk?
06:24 < str1ngs> I'm not sure if it does now.
06:24 < str1ngs> its a good question though.
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06:24 < vsmatck> It seems like a weird default to me. *shrug*. I just
accept it. Not too big a deal.
06:25 < s|k> I like it this way
06:25 < tdnrad> As I stated, I do find it strange, mostly because of what
I'm used to, but I also enjoy it. It makes sense to me.
06:26 < s|k> if there's something that I haven't gotten used to
06:26 < s|k> it's the anonymous fields method look up
06:26 < str1ngs> I think its good, or you end up with gcc like warnings that
might or should be errors at time.
06:26 < s|k> you could abuse that to make code unreadable, hard to follow
06:27 < s|k> as in calling a method on a type that has a bunch of anonymous
fields which in turn are types with anonymous fields
06:28 < s|k> hunting that method declaration down could be ugly :/
06:28 < s|k> especially if it's some third party library thing and it's not
in your path
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06:28 < s|k> immediate path that is
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06:37 < str1ngs> I can see that but, they are so useful to
06:40 < tdnrad> I've never used them, but they seem neat.
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06:40 * tdnrad is now trying to think of places he can use them just for fun
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07:14 < s|k> http://goo.gl/dClHh
07:15 < s|k> rand.Int() seems to always return the same number
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07:17 < vsmatck> You'd need to seed it for it not to return the same
sequence of numbers.
07:18 < s|k> why does rand.Int exist?
07:19 < chilts> 816681689 :)
07:19 < s|k> it doesn't take a seed. rand.New will create a rand.Rand
instance with a given seed
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07:24 < s|k> r := rand.New(rand.NewSource(time.Seconds())) and then r.Int()
gives me something random
07:24 < s|k> I think rand.Int should do that :P
07:24 < str1ngs> s|k: rand.Seed(time.Seconds()) works to
07:25 < s|k> oh
07:25 < str1ngs> then you can call rand.Int
07:25 < s|k> cool
07:25 < s|k> thanks
07:25 < str1ngs> np
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07:37 < s|k> https://github.com/apphacker/conversion_practice
07:38 < s|k> my first Go program
07:38 < s|k> :O
07:38 < s|k> Go is awesome
07:38 < s|k> need to add a few tests just to round it out
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07:44 < erus`> aaah 2 space tabs
07:44 < rajender> sterlngs, though it not working on golang playground :)
07:46 < s|k> erus`: heh
07:46 < rajender> strlngs,s|k though it not working on golang playground :)
07:46 < s|k> rajender: what is that?
07:47 < rajender> rand.Seed(time.Seconds())
07:47 < s|k> works when I run my app
07:47 < rajender> in golang playground
07:47 < rajender> ?
07:47 < s|k> no
07:47 < s|k> on the command line
07:48 < s|k> erus`: I have had vim configured for a long time to banish tabs
07:48 < s|k> there just wasn't any way I was going to undo all that
07:48 < s|k> :\
07:48 < s|k> adding 4 or 8 space tabs is doable for .go files I guess
07:48 < erus`> \t or gtfo
07:49 < s|k> I have setup gofmt
07:49 < s|k> so that it uses 2 space tabs
07:49 < rajender> ts|k hats what i am saying it is not working in go
playground, as in playground time.Seconds() giving same value
07:49 < s|k> I can't imagine why anyone want \t
07:49 < erus`> because it saves bytes
07:49 < s|k> wants*
07:49 < erus`> and its consistant
07:49 < s|k> heh
07:49 < erus`> you dont accidently do 3 spaces
07:49 < s|k> you can make it conistent just by making gofmt take a number of
spaces intead of tabs
07:50 < erus`> i really dont get the arguement for spaces > tabs
07:50 < s|k> erus`: do you use vim?
07:50 < erus`> no gedit :)
07:50 < s|k> because it's an egregious whitespace character that doesn't
belong in source code
07:51 < s|k> seeing my character jump around is the work of the devil
07:51 < erus`> pff
07:51 < s|k> my insertion thing
07:51 < s|k> whatever it's called
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07:52 < s|k> I'll quit my job and and stop being a programmer before I'll
start using tabs :P
07:52 < erus`> haha
07:52 < s|k> I don't even have any way to insert a tab in vim
07:53 < s|k> I remapped my tab key a long time ago
07:53 < s|k> because who the hell uses tabs?
07:53 < s|k> !
07:53 < erus`> sane people
07:54 < s|k> tbh
07:54 < erus`> lets agree that im right and move on
07:54 < s|k> if I had to start using tabs to get a Go job
07:54 < s|k> I might do it
07:54 < s|k> I like Go that much
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08:08 < xyproto> erus`: I use both gvim and gedit. Gedit has a few nice
plugins, like auto-indent. And I've never bothered to set up select copy and
paste in gvim properly, and I like how gedit does just that better (I would have
to remap ctrl-v for block select in vim, though). Both are great editors, for
different purposes.
08:09 < xyproto> Note to self: set up comfy cut'n'paste in gvim some day,
you'll thank your future self
08:09 < erus`> i only use syntax highlighting
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08:10 < xyproto> s|k: What kind of Go job would you like, if you had a Go
job?
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08:20 < erus`> go go girl job
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08:26 < xyproto> X)
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08:44 < s|k> xyproto: probably something networking related, a website
backend, a monitoring tool, something that provisions or launches servers
08:45 < s|k> services that handle clients or are clients of some kind
08:46 < s|k> also
08:46 < s|k> if you're cutting and pasting in vim you're doing it wrong
08:47 < Gertm> A Go job heh. I think the only good way to do that now is to
create it yourself. :-)
08:47 < s|k> in vim you yank
08:47 < s|k> :he yank
08:48 < s|k> Gertm: or work at Google
08:48 < s|k> but Google uses perforce :P
08:48 < Gertm> Yes, let's keep it realistic for European users :)
08:49 < s|k> tabs AND something other than git is just too much
08:49 < Gertm> So, working at google is not really happening for me.
08:49 < s|k> I can do one or the other but not both
08:49 < s|k> google has offices in Europe
08:49 < Gertm> So, rephrasing; if you cannot work for google, create the job
yourself! :)
08:49 < Gertm> Like I'm doing.
08:49 < s|k> what's the job
08:49 < s|k> that you're creating yourself?
08:49 < Gertm> Except, I'm not going to use Go, I'm using Erlang. But close
enough.
08:50 < s|k> uh
08:50 < s|k> not really
08:50 < Gertm> Content distribution server
08:50 < s|k> an http server?
08:50 < s|k> that serves content :/
08:50 < Gertm> There will be a small http part in there yes, but that's not
the main part
08:51 < Gertm> I'm not confident enough to write a service in Go that won't
behave badly when encountering bugs.
08:52 < Gertm> That is not a limitation of Go, it's a limitation of me as a
programmer.
08:53 < s|k> how else would you serve content
08:53 < s|k> other than http?
08:53 < Gertm> stream it
08:53 < s|k> ah
08:53 < ww> s|k: the web is not the Internet damnit
08:54 < Gertm> Yeah, there's more than http to the internet :)
08:54 < ww> :)
08:54 < s|k> usenet? :P
08:54 < Gertm> Gopher!
08:54 < Gertm> IRC?
08:54 < s|k> I wouldn't call IRC 'content'
08:55 < Gertm> What else can we suggest that is archaic? :p
08:55 < ww> unfortunately, porn killed usenet :(
08:55 < s|k> usenet binaries is alive and well
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08:55 < s|k> not that I use that stuff
08:55 < ww> but it was far better than this stupid arrangement we have now
with mailing lists and google groups for discussions...
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08:56 < ww> (yes i know there are still gateways like gmane but that's not
the point)
08:56 < ww> on the non-archaic side we have things like RTP
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08:57 < ww> which your jabber and sip clients use... and probably any long
distance calls you make where the h.323 (*gasp*) leg is hidden from you...
08:58 < ww> and we have torrent...
08:59 < ww> not everybody uses a web browser for email, thank g-d
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09:15 < xyproto> s|k: I do yank in vim, with y, p and p. And when deleting.
But, to cooperate with other X-programs I often "+ and :reg, which I don't like at
all
09:15 < xyproto> s|k: (okay, I don't yank when I paste, but yank'n'paste,
then)
09:16 < jnwhiteh> make
09:16 < jnwhiteh> err, hi thar.
09:16 < s|k> heh
09:16 < xyproto> s|k: I wish the default behavior was not :reg and ", y and
p, as it feels old-fashioned and unecessary cumbersome
09:16 < xyproto> jnwhiteh: make: *** No targets specified and no makefile
found. Stop.
09:17 < s|k> I don't use reg much
09:17 < xyproto> s|k: then how do you yank'n'paste between your browser, the
commandline and other applications?
09:18 < s|k> I don't really have a need to yank outside vim
09:18 < s|k> since I only ever have vim open
09:18 < s|k> for editing that is
09:18 < jnwhiteh> using macvim, I just control-x/c/v when I need to do that
09:18 < jnwhiteh> but I use y/p when I'm doing anything restricted to the
editor
09:18 < s|k> I guess I'm always using github
09:19 < xyproto> jnwhiteh: I think that's a better default behavior
09:19 < s|k> so I link to github
09:19 < jnwhiteh> they're both supported out of the box, and its natural :p
09:19 < s|k> I don't like macvim
09:19 < xyproto> s|k: what if you test something on a the commandline, and
wish to put the newfound long commandline in a script?
09:19 < s|k> I like iterm2 + vim
09:19 < jnwhiteh> s|k: what don't you like about it?
09:20 < s|k> it's like a weird pseudo-terminal
09:20 < s|k> I don't know
09:20 < s|k> I just like being in a terminal
09:20 < s|k> xyproto: hrm, I'd probably type it out
09:20 < jnwhiteh> oh, I use vim7 tabs quite a bit, and I like having them in
a proper window
09:20 < s|k> I mean I do copy and paste on rare occaisons
09:20 < jnwhiteh> of course, I can always use the terminal instead *shrug*
09:20 < s|k> but I hate using the mouse anyway
09:20 < s|k> so I would just probably type it
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09:21 < s|k> I use vim tabs
09:21 < s|k> and split windows
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09:21 < s|k> vim tabs are awesome
09:22 < s|k> copying and pasting code is usually a sign of a problem anyway
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09:22 < jnwhiteh> I think that's overstating the case, quite a bit.
09:22 < xyproto> s|k: I'd select it, then go back to vim and either go into
insert mode and middle-click or shift-insert, or use :reg to find the right piece
of string, then "-paste it
09:22 < s|k> jnwhiteh: what is
09:22 < jnwhiteh> "10:23 s|k: copying and pasting code is usually a sign of
a problem anyway"
09:22 < xyproto> s|k: which is far too cumbersome, I think
09:23 < valentin> copy-paste will bite you hard
09:23 < xyproto> s|k: copying and pasting code is a sign of a problem, when
programming, I agree
09:23 < jnwhiteh> I *constantly* am posting things to the web for other
people to see and going back and forth. That's a quite common use-case that is
made much more cumbersome without copy/paste
09:23 < s|k> I mean
09:23 < s|k> copying and pasting in your code
09:23 < xyproto> jnwhiteh: +1
09:23 < jnwhiteh> if you're doing it in your own code, obviously.. but you
made it more general than that
09:23 < s|k> not pasting from your code to some other thing
09:23 < jnwhiteh> I paste from some other thing to my code
09:23 < jnwhiteh> quite frequently
09:24 < jnwhiteh> when testing and collaborating
09:24 < s|k> :/
09:24 < xyproto> s|k: how do you post to pastebin from vim? Wait a minute,
that makes me want to find a plugin for just that :)
09:24 < jnwhiteh> xyproto: there's a Gist plugin that does just that
09:24 < jnwhiteh> I'm *sure* there's a pastebin one as well
09:24 < s|k> xyproto: actually if I want to do stuff like that, I open
textmate
09:24 < wrtp> pbcopy is useful (under macos anyway)
09:25 < jnwhiteh> I'm *sure* there's a pastebin one as well
09:25 < xyproto> s|k: why don't you configure vim to act like textmate for
the instances where you want it to act like textmate instead?
09:25 < s|k> I paste code when I don't want to bother with downloading in
chrome
09:25 < wrtp> in vim, !}pbcopy\n
09:25 < s|k> it's really easy to type !mate %:p
09:25 < xyproto> s|k: a-ha!
09:25 < s|k> and then do whatever
09:25 < xyproto> s|k: :p
09:25 < s|k> like for example
09:26 < s|k> today I pasted a vim color scheme
09:26 < xyproto> wrtp: what is pbcopy?
09:26 < s|k> because it's a pain to download in chrome, and then find where
it was downloaded
09:26 < s|k> and move it to .vim/colors
09:26 < s|k> so I just copied the code and opened the file with vim and
pasted it
09:26 < s|k> but I'm not pasting shit into my own code
09:27 < jnwhiteh> obviously
09:27 < jnwhiteh> we've been through this
09:27 < xyproto> s|k: for those kinds of things, I use a terminal, wget (or
curl) and paste the text from the browser to the commandline. It's cumbersome,
but so is moving files from the download-folder, or selecting a folder with the
gui-thing (even when typing the location)
09:27 < wrtp> xyproto: takes stdin and puts it onto the macos paste board
09:27 < s|k> yeah
09:27 < s|k> wget is a good option
09:27 < jnwhiteh> I'm quite happy with my workflow, I copy and paste using
the OS hotkeys for that just fine when I need to.. but when I'm editing my code I
use vim y/p
09:27 < jnwhiteh> *shrug*
09:27 < s|k> but some things like the vim site sometimes do a redirect
09:27 < wrtp> xyproto: pbpaste writes the pasteboard to stdou
09:27 < wrtp> t
09:27 < s|k> so if you just wget
09:27 < s|k> you get a .php instead of the file you wanted
09:27 < s|k> which sucks
09:28 < s|k> or maybe that was curl
09:28 < s|k> I dunno
09:28 < xyproto> wrtp: I see. But, I can't find pbpaste. Is it an internal
vim command or something that could be found in /usr/bin?
09:28 < wrtp> xyproto: can be useful to pipe between them: e.g. pbpaste|
sort|pbcopy
09:28 < wrtp> xyproto: it's a mac os command
09:28 < s|k> jnwhiteh: we all have our different ways
09:28 < jnwhiteh> indeed
09:28 < s|k> I'm only judgemental when I see someone not realizing the power
of vim
09:28 < wrtp> xyproto: in /usr/bin
09:28 < s|k> :P
09:29 < wrtp> acme FTW :-)
09:29 < xyproto> wrtp: ah, I didn't know. But, searching for it, I see that
there is an application in Arch for synchronizes the two copy/paste buffers in X.
Perhaps that would be something.
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09:29 < xyproto> acme is funny
09:29 < s|k> I was watching a coworker the other day using arrow keys to
move around his file
09:29 < s|k> I was like 'why do you even use vim?'
09:29 < xyproto> s|k: the horror :)
09:29 * wrtp laughs all day
09:30 < xyproto> wrtp: Last time I tried acme, it segfaulted every time I
closed it, and it required me to use the mouse. Other than that, I liked the
straightforwardness.
09:31 < jnwhiteh> s|k: there's a whole lot more to vim than homerow
navigation, I use both
09:31 < wrtp> xyproto: it does require the mouse. that is (in the end) one
of the best things about it.
09:31 < jnwhiteh> I mean, you may joke, but I don't think that's entirely
fair
09:31 < wrtp> and it's much more powerful than it appears at first
09:31 < wrtp> i never get a segfault
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09:32 < xyproto> wrtp: well, as long as one doesn't have to use a mouse to
actually type in the letters, I guess it could be considered nice. I agree that
it is powerful, probably more so over time, but there will always be a part of me
that long for using only the keyboard, and avoid the mouse. If nothing else, for
the health of my wrist.
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09:33 < xyproto> wrtp: the segfault was probably not the fault of acme,
though. I visited #plan9 and asked how to try out plan 9, and they pointed me to
this vm-version of plan9, for linux.
09:34 < vegai> I don't remember even getting a segfault from my emacs,
though
09:34 < vegai> even/ever
09:35 < xyproto> vegai: ed has never segfaulted here either ;)
09:35 < xyproto> vegai: do you like qemacs?
09:39 < vegai> I don't really see the point of those miniemacses on modern
hardware
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09:40 < vegai> I need orgmode and an editor that makes reading and writing
code less of a pain
09:40 < vegai> all the others are just toys (or vim) from my perspective
09:41 < jnwhiteh> emacs being super heavy, and the dichotomy between xemacs
and gnuemacs made me cry
09:41 < jnwhiteh> but I'm still quite proficient in it
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09:51 < wrtp> i like the fact that acme doesn't read all the file into
memory so you can edit huge files without much pain
09:55 < str1ngs> xyproto: https://gist.github.com/8139ee29e4ff42ba47ad
09:55 < str1ngs> xyproto: ,y will yank to clipboard. ,p will paste
clibboard
09:56 < str1ngs> xyproto: if you are using archlinux gvim it will work in
vim terminal also
09:56 < xyproto> str1ngs: thanks, I'll try using vim+gist
09:57 < str1ngs> vim gist?
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10:12 < moraes> duuude, go is fast
10:13 < moraes> and go'od morning.
10:16 < wrtp> moraes: good to see your router. haven't had a chance to have
a good look yet tho'.
10:17 < moraes> wrtp, cool.
10:17 < moraes> tried to stay close to http stuff, and just add spice.
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10:18 < wrtp> definitely a good plan
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11:13 < gobeginner> Is reading or writing an 'int' value always atomic
without needing other synchronization?
11:14 < gobeginner> "Reads and writes of values larger than a single machine
word behave as multiple machine-word-sized operations in an unspecified order. "
http://golang.org/doc/go_mem.html
11:15 < gobeginner> seems to suggest it, but I'm not sure
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11:21 < wrtp> gobeginner: if you want a read or write to be visible in
another goroutine, you must use synchronisation
11:21 < wrtp> see sync/atomic
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11:24 < gobeginner> Thanks, wrtp.
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12:06 < wrtp> np
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14:09 < moraes> honestly, this thing of slices vs arrays is damn confusing.
14:10 < moraes> nah. i just wanted to break the silence.
14:10 < zeebo> haha
14:10 < zeebo> i was about to get all explainy
14:10 < moraes> hey zeebo now {name:pattern} is {n,m} friendly.
14:10 < zeebo> i saw. thats pretty great
14:11 < moraes> ok. :)
14:11 < str1ngs> oh come on, you could have said something more like. hai !
when is go getting generics :P
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14:12 < moraes> hai! can i haz tuples?
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14:13 < moraes> or: damn, breaking strings.Split() from r58 was something
terrible. honest.
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14:17 < f2f> the formal language theory community frowns on Go's shenanigans
14:17 < f2f> :p
14:18 < aiju> i frown upon the formal language masturbation^Wtheory
community
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14:18 < pfharlock> why so, I would think they would be excited
14:18 < gobeginner> Serious question then: What tool support does Go need to
be a accepted by large software houses doing CI?
14:19 < aiju> pfharlock: Go is the enemy of formal language theory
14:19 < str1ngs> CI?
14:19 < aiju> it doesn't have any of the formal masturbation tools
14:19 < aiju> no generics, no operator overloading, no JIT
14:19 < exch> Go apparently breaks with ancient traditions, passed down from
father to son for thousands of years. It insults a long line of experts
14:19 < zeebo> how can you possibly code in something without monads
14:19 < zeebo> unthinkable
14:19 < gobeginner> CI:
http://martinfowler.com/articles/continuousIntegration.html
14:19 < zeebo> my functors :(
14:20 < str1ngs> gobeginner: ah I would think say something like buildbot
14:20 < skelterjohn> gonads
14:20 < aiju> gonorrhea
14:20 < f2f> continuations!
14:21 < aiju> iterators
14:21 < f2f> much worse than gonorrhea
14:21 < f2f> finalizers!
14:21 < zeebo> haha. i need to make a package for monads and call them
gonads
14:21 < f2f> oh, wait, go has finalizers :)
14:21 < skelterjohn> you need to cite me if you do
14:21 < f2f> we just don't talk about them much. they're in the attic
14:21 < zeebo> roger that
14:21 < str1ngs> gobeginner: and some form of version control
14:21 < pfharlock> aiju: I would think they would be excited to see a
language with built in primitives to handle concurrency that is compiled and fast.
14:21 < skelterjohn> finalizers, like all good features, are invisible
unless you search them out
14:22 < moraes> gobeginner, a eclipse plugin that adds a gopher icon
14:22 < aiju> pfharlock: but it's hard-coded and builtin
14:22 < aiju> they don't like that
14:22 < aiju> it's similar to the microkernel crowd
14:22 < pfharlock> that's just the python people
14:22 < skelterjohn> str1ngs: what is buildbot?
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14:23 < pfharlock> the language is the perfect place to address concurrency
14:23 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: automated build system written in python
14:23 < aiju> pfharlock: no, also Haskell folks
14:23 < aiju> and similar
14:23 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: iirc godashboard uses it
http://godashboard.appspot.com/
14:24 < pfharlock> so I realize I'm preaching to the quire here, but still
14:24 < moraes> what is the python people?
14:24 < pfharlock> people who like python
14:24 * moraes is from the python peoples
14:24 * str1ngs burn the heretic ! :P
14:25 < moraes> sad thing is that go is a lot more down to earth than
python.
14:25 < skelterjohn> the last new language i learned before go was python
14:25 < skelterjohn> and that was 10 years ago
14:25 < pfharlock> I still like my scripting languages, but I could see
people building libraries in go that give the scripting languages a run for the
money :)
14:26 < gobeginner> moraes:what is the python people?
14:26 < gobeginner> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke
14:26 < gobeginner> Sorry couldn't resist it
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14:27 * moraes doesn't get it
14:28 < gobeginner> UK oddball who believes literally that we are ruled
snake people in disguise
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14:28 < exch> Hes been watching too much V
14:28 < f2f> our reptilian overlords will not be pleased
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14:29 < moraes> so. i signed up for google news about "python". it is
surprising the amount of python-the-snake related news like "Reptile-loving couple
sentenced to 12 years in prison in killer python case".
14:30 < NaFiann> hey, anyone know if it's possible to iterate over 2 slices
at the same time (e.g. a,b := range listA, listB)
14:31 < zeebo> write two loops, or use comma operator in one for loop
14:31 < zeebo> depends on how yo uwant it to index
14:32 < NaFiann> basically, they're both of same length, and I want to get
the first, second, third etc element of both.. not sure what you mean by using
comma operator
14:32 < aiju> zeebo: there is no comma operator in Go
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14:33 < aiju> NaFiann: no, there is no shurtcut for that
14:33 < aiju> *o
14:33 < zeebo> i meant parallel assignment
14:33 < zeebo> and yeah no shortcut
14:33 < f2f> no tuples, so you can't easily implement a zipper
14:33 < NaFiann> aww well that's too bad =) I'll do it the old-fashioned way
then, c-style
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14:36 < d3xter> hey
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14:37 < d3xter> i've updated my go installation to the latest weekly and
when i try to compile my project it says, "import is weekly 08-10, expected weekly
08-17", goinstall -u=true didnt help. how can i fix this?
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14:38 < idobi> recompile go
14:40 < moraes> d3xter, gomake clean maybe
14:41 < f2f> if it's an external lib all.bash won't recompile it, so you may
have to goinstall/recompile by hand again
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14:45 < d3xter> goinstall -clean=true [package] fixed it. thanks
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15:19 < wrtp> NaFiann: use range for one, and indexing for the others
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15:20 < f2f> one more: variadic templates!
15:21 < NaFiann> wrtp: thanks yes =) I had misunderstood range, thought it
worked more like the python construct 'for x in somelist:'. Imagine my surprise
when string.Split() didn't work on an int :p
15:21 < f2f> i don't know what they are, but i think go should have them
15:21 < aiju> f2f: people have been saying that for ages
15:21 < f2f> variadic variadic template templates?
15:21 < f2f> people say that with a straight face?
15:22 < aiju> people say factory factory with a straight face
15:22 < NaFiann> wasn't Go supposed to be relatively simple? :) of course,
no language is complete without a turing-complete template system, but still
15:22 < f2f> NaFiann: i think we're being glib :)
15:23 < NaFiann> I'm not! give me my turing-complete templates dammit
15:23 < NaFiann> :p
15:24 < NaFiann> calculating prime numbers during compile-time ftw
15:24 < wrtp> NaFiann: exp/template can be turing complete if you want it to
be :-)
15:24 < zeebo> wrtp gonna have to see a proof
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15:32 < wrtp> zeebo: anything with function calls and first class functions
can be turing complete...
15:33 < wrtp> so can exp/template if you add a function to create a
function.
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15:33 < zeebo> well yeah if you call go code from the template of course
15:33 < zeebo> but what about the template language itself?
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15:36 < wrtp> zeebo: it's not inherently turing complete, no
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15:37 < wrtp> that's why i said "if you want it to be"
15:37 < wrtp> 'cos you can add primitives
15:38 < zeebo> WELL THEN ITS WORTHLESS ugh
15:38 < zeebo> hehe
15:39 < wrtp> you're so right. anything non-turing complete is utterly
worthless
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15:39 < wrtp> tables of data, pah!
15:39 < s|k> what language isn't turing complete?
15:39 < wrtp> csv
15:40 < s|k> heh
15:40 < aiju> s|k: hq9+
15:40 < xyproto> hq9+ is a gem
15:40 < aiju> mostly DSLs are usually turing incomplete
15:40 < s|k> ah right
15:41 < wrtp> turing incompleteness is a nice thing because it means it's
analysable
15:41 < f2f> HQ9+B is turing complete according to wikipedia.
15:41 < aiju> f2f: not hq9+
15:42 < aiju> there isn't even an hq9+ article
15:42 < aiju> BASTARDS
15:42 < f2f> wrtp: that last part is of great interest to the formal
language theory community :)
15:42 < f2f> aiju: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/HQ9_Plus
15:42 < aiju> 17:42 < f2f> HQ9+B is turing complete according to
wikipedia.
15:43 < f2f> i call everything that looks like wikipedia "wikipedia"
15:43 < s|k> all I can see is simple wikipedia's entry for it
15:43 < s|k> looks like the deletionist got it removed from english
wikipedia
15:43 < s|k> sounds funny though
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15:44 < xyproto> wasn't there this case a few months ago about people
removing all sorts of programming languages from wikipedia, even serious ones that
were known by many and loved by a few?
15:45 < xyproto> yeah, I think it was "Clean" that was removed, then
restored after protests
15:47 < xyproto> No, sorry, it was Factor, I think
15:47 < aiju> HHAHAHAHAHA
15:47 < aiju> really?
15:47 < xyproto> ...anyhow
15:47 < aiju> what's next?
15:47 < xyproto> Yes, one of those
15:47 < aiju> Bismarck?
15:47 < xyproto> XD
15:47 < xyproto> yeah, it was factor
15:47 < xyproto> the factor people were all insulted
15:48 < aiju> didn't the Go article get deleted once, too?
15:48 < aiju> i remember something along that
15:48 < xyproto> and nemerle
15:48 < xyproto> Found the Reddit article:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/fkt7t/nemerle_factor_alice_ml_and_other_programming/
15:48 <+iant> Wikipedia deletionists seem to think that there is limited
space on the web
15:49 < nicka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charizard
15:49 < nicka> Meanwhile this is a locked article with a 'good' rating
15:50 < aiju> Charizard is important
15:50 <+iant> are you trying to dis Pokemon?
15:50 < zeebo> how am i supposed to catch 'em all if i dont have wikipedia
to guide me
15:50 < nicka> From now on people should name new languages after pokemon
15:50 <+iant> +1
15:50 < nicka> to hide themselves from the heavy hands of wikipedia modgods
15:52 < zeebo> when programming i could be like, Squirtle! I choose you!
and name language constructs after attacks
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16:00 < jlaffaye> mmh my int64 becomes an int :(
16:00 < aiju> what?
16:01 < jlaffaye> I have a []int64 and apparently when I for t := range
times { total += t } it complains because t is a int and not a int64
16:01 < jlaffaye> total is int54 btw
16:01 < aiju> int54
16:01 < aiju> sounds like DEC to me
16:02 < jlaffaye> well, big fingers :p
16:02 < zeebo> jlaffaye: becayse t := range items, t is the index
16:02 < zeebo> you want _, t := range times
16:02 < jlaffaye> oh crap!
16:02 < jlaffaye> you're right
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16:13 < xyproto> Have a fantastic weekend, may all your code compile at
first attempt and may all your functions be short and sweet
16:14 < valentin> ^^ thx
16:14 < wrtp> i had 100 lines of code compile first time yesterday
16:14 < wrtp> and it worked too
16:15 < wrtp> not even a missing (or extra) import!
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16:19 < f2f> i've done that with 20 lines
16:19 < f2f> but even if there are errors they're not scary, like they are
in other languages :)
16:20 < s|k> 6cov seg faults
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16:29 < skelterjohn> everybody faults, sometimes
16:30 < nicka> don't worry, it's not your fault
16:31 < s|k> skelterjohn: hi
16:31 < s|k> question about gb
16:31 < skelterjohn> sure
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16:32 < s|k> anyway to get verbose test results or benchmarks?
16:32 < s|k> any way*
16:32 < skelterjohn> how would you do that with gotest?
16:32 < skelterjohn> for a single target
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16:32 < s|k> gotest -v for verbose
16:32 < s|k> and I thing benchmarks are -x or -z or something
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16:33 < skelterjohn> to run benchmarks i think it's -test.bench=somePattern
16:33 < skelterjohn> i can tell gb to pass on a -v flag to tests - that's
perfectly reasonable
16:33 < skelterjohn> one sec while i experiment
16:34 < s|k> http://golang.org/cmd/gotest/
16:34 < s|k> -x is for benchmarks
16:34 < s|k> sweet!
16:35 < skelterjohn> -x is "print each subcommand gotest uses"
16:35 < skelterjohn> oh try -test.v
16:35 < skelterjohn> that will work with the existing gb
16:35 < skelterjohn> since gb passes any argument that begins with "-test."
to the testing binaries
16:35 < s|k> I get benchmarks
16:35 < s|k> when I type gotest -x
16:36 < skelterjohn> i'm just quoting the page you linked
16:36 < s|k> oh
16:36 < s|k> -test.bench is what the page says
16:37 < skelterjohn> perhaps your dist is out of date?
16:37 < skelterjohn> -test. is only a few months old
16:37 < skelterjohn> but no - you wouldn't have been able to build gb
16:38 < s|k> ah
16:38 < skelterjohn> try "gb -t -test.bench -test.v"
16:39 < s|k> after updating gb?
16:39 < skelterjohn> no - i haven't changed it
16:39 < s|k> doesn't do anything different
16:39 < skelterjohn> it already passed -test. arguments on
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16:39 < skelterjohn> -test.bench=MyTest then
16:39 < skelterjohn> where MyTest is an actual benchmark
16:39 < skelterjohn> MyBenchmark i mean
16:40 < s|k> https://gist.github.com/2f7874c2a538cbf5a30f
16:40 < skelterjohn> i commented on that gist
16:40 < skelterjohn> that's running from the gb source directory
16:41 < skelterjohn> or - do you only have benchmarks? no tests?
16:41 < s|k> I have tests and no benchmarks right now
16:41 < skelterjohn> what happens when you run "gb -t -test.v" in the gb
source dir?
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16:41 < s|k> trying
16:41 < s|k> that works
16:42 < s|k> I guess it's because I tried running benchmarks because I
didn't have any
16:42 < skelterjohn> put a print statement in your test to make sure it's
getting invoked
16:42 < s|k> ok
16:43 < s|k> yes it is
16:43 < s|k> thanks
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16:44 < skelterjohn> if you run gotest -v does it print out all the tests
that are run?
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16:45 < skelterjohn> oh - i think the problem is saying "-test.bench" with
no "=something" is not allowed
16:45 < skelterjohn> (when i do that here i get an error, but maybe that's
just the weekly go version)
16:46 < s|k> yes
16:49 < skelterjohn> um. are things working now? i've lost track of the
problem
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16:55 < s|k> skelterjohn: yep thanks
16:55 < skelterjohn> cool
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17:42 < skelterjohn> the minecraft client is a piece of crap
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17:55 < nicka> skelterjohn: is there a go one or do you mean the official
client
17:55 < skelterjohn> there is a go server
17:55 < skelterjohn> i'm talking about the client
17:55 < skelterjohn> oh - yeah the official one for mac
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19:05 < zeebo> i need an express lanes update
19:05 < zeebo> oops wrong window :)
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19:05 < zeebo> i do that too often. i need a better visual clue
19:06 < vegai> would a public humiliation work? :P
19:06 < zeebo> eventually ill say something really terrible
19:07 < zeebo> that might do it
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19:52 < crazy2be> I plugged in an external monitor
19:53 < crazy2be> and now my mouse is twice as sensitive in the x direction
as the y
19:55 < f2f> maybe you have the clean the little ball inside ;)
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