You know your political career is all but over when the headline on Stuff is “Minister of Pornography”.

I doubt Shane Jones’ line that he is a “red blooded adult” will go down now. The issue isn’t that Shane has watched porn – most men and many women have. The issue is that he charged it to the taxpayer.

There can be grey areas over what you can charge – such as meals etc. But no one could have a reasonable expectation that hotel porn is a legitimate work related expense.

There seem to have been a dozen or more of these movies charged to the taxpayer. In the UK the former Home Secretary Jacqui Smith lost her safe seat after revelations that her husband had charged one porn movie to the taxpayer.

Under MMP, one can’t vote Jones out of office. Only Labour can do so – he is their third highest ranked List MP. Ironically the winner out of all this may be Phil Goff – Jones certainly will not be challenging for the leadership any time soon. Also if Jones resigns, that brings back Judith Tizard!

Twitter has been hilarious today, with scores of people tweeting suggested titles for Shane’s movies. The Twitter channel is here, and well worth following. Some of the suggested titles are:

Hung Parliament

Black Rod

Foreign Affairs

Chief whip

The Honourable Member

Erect Committee

Private Secretary

Ministerial Probe

De-Briefing the Minister

Yes! Yes! Minister

Anti Smacking, Pro Spanking

Loves Labour Tossed

Withdraw And Apologise

Mixed Member Proportional

The bi-election

The Thick Of It

Parliamount

Ejaculated from the house

The State of Head

Crouching Taniwha, Horny Dragon

Debbie does Dannevirke

Emissions Trading Scheme

Rainbow Lay-bour

And many many more. They keep coming in every few seconds. So many wits.

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This entry was posted on Thursday, June 10th, 2010 at 3:59 pm and is filed under NZ Politics.
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Several years ago I had to sort out a spyware infection on an Australian state cabinet minister’s PC. He’d done nothing wrong (apart from being fooled by some spam or a link on an infected website), but was infected with something that was causing pornographic browser windows to appear. He really REALLY wanted it sorted out discretely so that he wouldn’t see a headline PORN FOUND ON MINISTER’S PC in the paper.

Brilliant Our own version of the House of Commons scandal. And the LEFTIES out point those of the RIGHT 100 to 1

Well whose surprised. The arrogant 2 faced bastards of the LEFT always telling every one else what to do and what not to do and doing the opposite themselves.

What a laugh. For those of us who had credit cards from the day they were introduced we were smart enough to have the company and the personal cards and even when pissed knew the RIGHT one to use.

Some of us worked for companies where credit card use was very tightly ;policed and some of us were the Auditors of the company credit card expenditure and if you are going to rort the system get clever and use a supplier who provides a bona fide name and recepit that can be gotten past the Auditor.

I am not normally a fan of the Stuff headlines, normal highlights have featured such gems as “Britney Spears’ dildo speaks out” and other assorted rubbish, but “Minister of Pornography” is just brilliant.

On a more serious note for those too lazy to do our own research, what actually are the rules around credit cards? Are they solely for ministerial or govrenmental business? Obviously porn is outside the rules. But what else? All personal expenditure??

Nah, I don’t think the front foot went out soon enough — Labour knew this was going to happen months back and I guess we know know why their response to Messers Heatley and English was more muted than expected.

And, sure, I’m not going to pretend I’ve never seen a porno. That would be a lie. But I’ve never had the had the brain-melthing chutzpah to try and charge it as a business expense. My masturbation aids are strictly self-financed.

I am not normally a fan of the Stuff headlines, normal highlights have featured such gems as “Britney Spears’ dildo speaks out”

It did? What about? Having pictures of its home splashed across the tabloids? Which would put it in the same category as John Minto… rather appropriate really.

As far as Jones goes, yes “every red blooded NZ male” has watched porn. I’ve watched it, prior to interviewing a porn star. It was one of those that had pretensions of having a plot… which I misunderstood completely during the interview. I’m not sure what that says about my comprehension abilities…

But porn watching demands a certain degree of furtiveness, as anyone who’s searched for the “delete history” button on their browser will attest. To rack it up on a government credit card bespeaks enormous arrogance, utter stupidity, or both. And yet he’s being picked as remaining a key Labour player?

The porn star I interviewed proved to be remarkably intelligent. She already had an advanced degree and went on to make a fortune in real estate once her looks faded. On that basis, I’d rather entrust the country to the people making the porn than the buffoon caught watching it.

Patrick Starr – reminds me of Billy T James old gag about pulling into KFC with the band on tour, and Prince Tui Teka doing the ordering “Four 2 litres of coke, 8 quarter packs, four buckets of bucket of wings, 4 tubs of potato and gravy… youse fellas want anything ?”

When your employer requires you to travel away from home as part of your employment it seems reasonable that they meet those fundamental human needs that are reasonably expected to be met at home. Why is it any less important for a persons sexual needs to be met than their need for shelter and food ?

Paying $19.90 for a pornographic movie seems a bargain in comparison to the alternative.

phil u – employees deserve to be compensated for the inconvenience of being away from their homes and families. Shane Jones was saving the taxpayer a considerable sum by taking care of business himself.

At least every taxpayer now knows they have bought a porn movie whther they wanted to or not.

I still think all this is being blown out of proportion but it’s funny as.

As someone who has travelled widely and lived in many countries I have to say I have never seen government officials being on TV for buying a bottle of $4 water on ministerial credit cards. Yes, it’s the principle that counts ie that they should not misuse taxpayer money but my gosh 10 minutes on national news talking about a minister’s movie watching…interesting.

That Shane Jones should have ever been considered for leadership is a mystery. If he were not part Maori he would never have gained the status he pretends to have. He is glib, potty mouthed, and too clever by half. A feature of this expense scandal is that representatives of so-called disadvantage minorities (maoris, gays) are the MP’s that are being fingered. This is the inevitable outcome of PC labour wanting to be seen to be ‘rainbow’, whereby selected individuals are promoted beyond their competence. Time to set odds on where Jones, Carter, and Tizard will appear on the next Labout list; or will they do us all a favour and just disappear.

DPF – yes it is possible to masturbate without watching a $20 porn movie just as it is possible to drink water out of the tap instead of drinking the bottled water in the mini bar. Both meet the basic physical need but do nothing to satisfy the emotional component of that need. Shane Jones would have been well within his moral rights to have engaged the service of an escort at the taxpayers expense.

I never saw Shane as a leader of the Labour party and he is fkd now anyway
The devil in Mr Jones (similar to a real title .. apparently)
I’m pissed off the revelations were so minor .. and yes they are minor
to me the worst was Ririnui’s bike and stuff .. how can you disguise that as entertaining etc??
the $ value of Horomia’s Chinese meals is stunning .. how many people could eat that much??
Koru Clubs “excuse” was pathetic .. blamed everyone but himself

Besides it being sad that Shane Jone’s wife has this is paraded on television before the nation, the other disappointment is that this somehow seems to take the pressure off Goff being unsuited to be Labour leader. That another contender for the job falls, should do him no good really.

“The women’s division of the Labour Party will never forgive this. They are powerful and they cross over the gay division and the union division of the party. He will likely be demoted from the front bench and his ability to survive in politics full-stop is yet to be seen.”

I hope Soper is correct I2 .. it’s like watching a car crash .. I started to read Chris Caters Readablurt piece but the are nearly 200 replies .. close to a record for them .. and many red/left nut-jobs are unhappy with Koru Club

“The women’s division of the Labour Party will never forgive this. They are powerful and they cross over the gay division and the union division of the party. He will likely be demoted from the front bench and his ability to survive in politics full-stop is yet to be seen.”

This would be very harsh (under the assumption that it actually takes place), how does watching porn influence his ability to serve/perform as a front bench MP? It might be morally and ethically out of line but I don’t expect him to be alienated from the party via the women’s division based on porn alone.

Leaving aside comment about how Shane Jones spends his evenings in hotels. Most good size companies have similar rules to Government on acceptable expenses. The difference seems to be that most companies simply require you to reimburse personal cost, no stigma, no issue, just reimburse. When you pay your hotel bill with your company (Parliamentary) credit card do you also offer your personal credit card and split the bill? I guess MP’s have to, but isn’t reimbursement a more reasonable approach.

I find the media punchup so much a waste of time and space, but typical of what we are served as news now. sad!

I have no particular view on Jones but it seems an unnecessary intrusion into his personal life, for what, he repaid the taxpayers money!

How much did Aunty Helen have to pay back? Nothing! squeaky clean.”this is your DVD right? get rid of it later”

Now Koru Carter has only told us of what he spent taxpayer money on what he should not have, more interesting is what he did use taxpayer’s money for ……

Goff, well goff goff evading and out of the country. No comment? 2010 technology and the dupidy does it?

Now where is that mad duck Mallard? The one who goes on and on about expense abuse. Where the fuck are you Trevor Tigerpig? You have no comments to make about your colleagues? Attack time Trev, roll Goof now

Bloggers on Red Alert are very upset; the efforts by the dedicated few to trivialize the whole affair are falling on stony ground. And then there is Chris Carter; blame the staff, acknowledge a few indiscretions but no apology (while not fessing up to the many more); can this guy be believed?

A comment by SHG: (re Carters explanation for the limo spend up)

@paul: That’s the worst made-up-on-the-spot excuse I’ve ever heard.

So what Carter is saying is that Hughes Limousines of Adelaide – the name on the receipt – was engaged by the Australian Government for diplomatic security reasons, and then Hughes Limousines charged Chris Carter’s personal credit card, and Hughes Limousines would have charged the Australian Government for its services, and the Australian Government according to Carter charged the NZ Government, and then the Australian Government paid Hughes Limousines, and Carter’s credit card bill was paid by the NZ Government and… wait, what?

Seriously, Carter is expecting us to believe that the Australian Government charges the personal credit cards of overseas diplomats for the costs of Australian Government security policies relating to those diplomats’ visits? And that official Government diplomatic security policies involve hiring tiny limousine companies in Adelaide that specialise in winery tours?

@ Angus: that simply shows how out of touch the Labour Party power brokers are with the real world – this is NOT about whether watched pornos (how many “red-blooded” males haven’t?), but about using a taxpayer funded credit card, provided for well defined work related expenses, to pay for them. If the women’s division of the LP wish to grandstand against porn, this is not the issue they should be using.

Here was a TV interviewer, who with others on TTVNZ 1 news earlier, touted for free crayfish from the Chathams. Now he was tsk-tsking about items on Jones’ and other MPs’ state credit cards.

Here was a TV interviewer also tsk-tsking about Jones apparently having watched some blue movies. Later in the evening on sister TTVNZ channel, 2, there will be a serial set in a Melbourne brothel. TTVNZ channels (and others of course) from time to time broadcast soft porn offering sex-practice hints to selected couples where one member, at least, isn’t sexually satisfied by her or his partner. In NZ Jones could have watched this, free, rather than hiring a “blue” movie.

What sort of a country are we becoming? We have all but thrown out Christianity and its morality and codes of behaviour. Now we pillory leaders who behave as the rest of us do.

After his performance on Close Up tonight, if Jones stood in my electorate for National, ACT, or an as-yet to emerge centre-right party, I could easily vote for him.

Not that the prudes are picking on the Left alone. Groser is doing a great job opening trade doors for NZ. So what if he spent a few hundred from his minibar lubricating foreign delegates at the Copenhagen meeting. Keep the grog flowing to Groser while he keeps opening doors.

Armotur: you’re frankly wrong.
Companies typically require their employees to use their own method of payment and submit an expense claim, which is smart because it makes the employee far more careful of what they claim. The alternative to this is that a company supplies the credit card, but the rule is no personal expenditure on it, and breach of that rule is theft. Even when you’ve paid it all back there was a time there that you had use of the company’s money without their express consent. The only way it is not theft is if you have explicit permission ahead of time. Companies don’t like that, because you are then costing them additional interest/finance charges, and risk. So no, that is not how it works in the corporate world.
Also, you will note that the rules for ministerial credit cards clearly state that they may not be used for personal expenditure. To do so is, for the exact same reasons as in the corporate world, theft.
So in a corporate world we’d have the luxury of sacking the thieves on both sides of the house. And we wouldn’t be bloody replacing them either.

I gotta admit that I have enjoyed today more than I should have, I do try my best not to take pleasure at the misfortune of others but sometimes there are things that one just cannot look past.

Jones and Labour deserve everything that is coming their way, many of us claimed they were corrupt and many of us suffered the abuse from the left (who still continue to spin this as “no big deal”) because of those claims.

Having now reflected on this for the better part of the day and going back to read all the comments on the various blogs (many of which are bloody hilarious) I am left with the horrible feeling that there are a few on the centre right or right who are not much better than the pinkos over at the sub standard.

When you boil it down we should be as outraged at the antics of ANY politician as we are outraged at the Labour ministers abuse of tax payer funds, it does not matter if the trougher is named Jones, Tizard, or Carter, equally it should not matter if they are named Hide, English, Brownlee or Heatley, the bastards are all as bad as each other.

The question I have is this, while not defending Jones at all (he should resign) those of us who like to think we are not cheer leaders should still be equally outraged at the abuse of public funds when they happen to be from our side of the house.

If it good enough for Jones to resign then it should be good enough for Bill English and Heatley to resign from the house as well, there cannot be rules for our “team” and rules for the other “team”.

The sense of entitlement these bastards have is beyond belief, they treat each and every one of us like their personal ATM machine and I for one have had enough of it.

Key and Goff could do worse than agree to make an example of one of their MP’s, if it means that English and Jones have to carry the can then so be it, the rest will then be on permanent notice that we the public will not put up with this shit any longer.

….Companies typically require their employees to use their own method of payment and submit an expense claim, which is smart because it makes the employee far more careful of what they claim. The alternative to this is that a company supplies the credit card, but the rule is no personal expenditure on it, and breach of that rule is theft. ..

I don’t think Cabinet Ministers or their equivalents in the Opposition should be saddled with the same procedures as sales reps, but there is clearly something wrong with present Parliamentary accounting and procedures. Surely in these days of computerised accounting, big hotels can itemise and summarise accounts at the guest’s choice so that the account settled has two sections, one of which can be settled with a state credit card and the other with a personal one. If hotels can’t do this, isn’t there a screaming need for a private financial facility to do this?

What about an online accounting service such as Xero? Why couldn’t Parliamentary Services use this so that MPs (or their secretaries) can flick through accounts assigning personal expenses to a personal account?

So an MP has spent taxpayer’s money on watching porn all by himself ? Disgraceful. As a taxpayer myself, I think the only remedy is for Mr Jones to post the videos online, so that the people who paid for it can also get their fair share.

Jones certainly will not be challenging for the leadership any time soon. Also if Jones resigns, that brings back Judith Tizard!

Judith Tizard she’s gone to… Jones Tizard and Carter all have lost their credibility by misusing their parliamentary cards. All now unsuitable for leadership… Leaving the way clear for Andrew Little to challage for leadership of the Labour Party.. And lets face it Labour need to clean the slate of the old guard and these MPs to start a fresh… Andrew Little is the best candidate not being a Labour MP… unless they can by chance find a John Key type candidate outside of parliament for themselves to lead the party.

This also calls into question the MMP system and how the hell do we get rid of bad barstards list MPs.. when their party decides to keeps them on… So I say phuck MMP for that reason.

Well no, not in my experience, yours is clearly different.
The companies I have associated with for over 40 years are typical large multinationals and supply company credit cards as I described and permitted personal expenditure which would subsequently have to be reimbursed. Agree misuse is serious as are consequences as you say, it is simply a practical arrangement which is based on trust. Also, the duty of care in such matters is there regardless of whether you have to fill out an expense claim or not.

I guess my point is that parliament rule of no personal expenditure on a credit card makes it tough if you get it wrong, even if you reimburse. The idea of reimbursement would avoid all of the media hype for those that made an honest attempt to repay personal expenditure.

Paying $19.90 for a pornographic movie seems a bargain in comparison to the alternative.

OMG, you haven’t thought this through have you. OK, OK I can tell you’re a lame spin Dr trying desperately to make it seem OK that a minister of the crown expected tax payers to front for his porn movies but hang on a minute.

Lets say the member is female, and has say a collection of things she like to choose from to assist her. Is it reasonable the company pay excess baggage for these items or should she be able to purchase them locally when she reaches her destination? If we are talking basic human rights provided by the company well I think one of mine is fellatio in lunch breaks, there is a brothel near where I work a fair bit so I should be able to claim it as a tax deduction right?

Good help us when we need to provide for the basic human rights of somebody with an animal fetish, travel arrangements will need to be sensitively managed.

FFS, if he was working as a male prostitute then sure porno is permissible as a work expense – for an MP – Bugger off!

the point is armotur that they made no effort to payit back after the fact, until they got caught.

i agree its probably easier to pay for the lot on the minsterial card and then pay back minsterial services for the bits you know are personal than trying to work it out at the time. but the rules say they cannot.

Carter being caught 6 years after the fact and now saying he should pay it back is way too late. if however he made personal expenses at the time on the card but paid each on back the next month when the statement came through i would be happy with that, as it would show an undertanding that the money is not theirs (even if its not the offical rules).

If Jones had half a brain, you would think he would fear he would be recognised, that hotel staff would note what films he watched and tip off the media, if there was a story.
Why haven’t we enjoyed gossipy snippets about his viewing habits?
I am sure hotels are meant to be discreet but what is stopping some poorly paid staffer from tipping off Rachel Glucina or whoever that Minister such-and-such watched this film and that firm at such a time.
Funny thing is, we do not yet know the names of the movies watched.
When the husband of the former British Home Secretary was revealed for watching movies and then claiming for them, there was a rather unusual suprise in his choice of movie.
The Daily Telegraph suggested one of the movies he saw was Raw Meat 3, apparantly a gay movie!http://bookkake.com/2009/03/31/by-special-request-raw-meat-3/
Has anyone checked to see if Jones was watching gay porn.
That would make his humiliation so complete!

Well Grendel my points are related to those that paid back without pressure, no debate on those that attempted to get away with it.

I’m suggesting that the current rules on no personal expenditure at all make it tough to judge at times. On those occasions reimbursement (without outside coercion) seems practical and avoids this media beat up.

Those that commit fraud in these circumstances should suffer the due course of law.

Jack5 and Armotur, well sorry I’m not one of those big wigs with that type of company card, and I can’t say I know of any companies that would still do that in 2010 (no doubt you do). But I also don’t think our politicians should have one like that either. Look at their behaviour! It actually makes me wonder if some of them are too fiscally irresponsible to maintain their own finances, that they need to resort to using someone else’s money. Quite clearly the rules state the ministerial credit card is not to be used for personal expenditure. To use it even once for personal expenditure is theft.

Corruption watchdog to investigate Macdonald’s expenses
The Independent Commission Against Corruption will probe a 2008 trip to the Middle East by former NSW Labor minister Ian Macdonald, after a government report found he misused public funds.

The report by director general of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, Brendan O’Reilly, says the taxpayer footed the bill for airfares, meals and other transportation worth nearly $6000

Mr Macdonald, who was state and regional development minister, resigned from cabinet last Friday, and from the Legislative Council on Monday, over the allegations.

“The movie closes with Joey shouting “Shane! Come back!” as he watches Shane riding into the mountains. The film does not explicitly mention whether or not Shane survived the wound he received in the shootout. This has led to sometimes heated discussions among fans of the film, as depicted in the film The Negotiator. However, in the last scene in the film, Shane is riding up into the mountains far away from where the gunfight took place. Furthermore, the wound Shane received was likely to be fatal, as Shane is shown slouched in the saddle similar to a dying man.”

Sharing pornography has been commonplace in the offices and staff rooms of Virgin Blue for years, a group of workers sacked by the airline claim.

And they say that, far from objecting to the practice, airline management openly condoned it.

(no wonder he doesn’t fly Airnz. No porn on the inflights.)

It is understood Virgin is undertaking a company-wide investigation into pornography use, with everyone from engineers to cabin crew having their computers scanned by high-tech computer programs that check email inboxes for skin-toned images.

A Virgin Blue spokeswoman said the airline would “defend our actions vigorously”.

“anyone who heard Susan Wood get absolutely stuck into ’shakin’ Shane Jones on ZB this evening at about 5.30 would have to agree it was her best performance ever”

Agreed. She pointed out the fact that he is also liar. On Mike Hoskings show he said. “I am a movie buff but do not make a habit of watching buff movies”. He tried to weasel out by saying< I said made a habit. She pointed out he was trying to "play with words and repeated that he lied. Much better than the cushy ride Campbell gave Len Brown.

There is a great deal of comment and even a headline implying that Jones spent “taxpayer’s” money on porn. Let us be fair, he did not do any such thing. He reimbursed the public purse for personal expenses as any company rep would do. So what are we left with? He availed himself of a service that is provided by most Hotels perfectly legally – adult movies.
Well what company rep hasn’t?
For as long as New Zealand demands that it’s politicians adhere to a moral standard way beyond that of it’s average citizens, it will be ruled by liars.
Jones’ candour has been a breath of fresh air in the fetid atmosphere of hypocrisy that has come to pervade NZ politics. It is with great regret that I view what may be the eclipse of a very bright star.

“Jones’ candour has been a breath of fresh air in the fetid atmosphere of hypocrisy that has come to pervade NZ politics. It is with great regret that I view what may be the eclipse of a very bright star.”

You are overlooking one thing Spoff….Jones bloody well lied about it, prior to 9am this morning Jones denied watching porn, it is quite clear that the only reason he coughed up to it was because there was no way of toughing it out, he (Jones) had been caught.

The watching of porn is not something I am going to condemn the man for, however, what I do find unforgivable is that he changed that porn back to the tax payer, and whats-more, he only reimbursed the public when it became clear that he could not get away with it.
If he wants to watch porn in the privacy of his hotel room then as far as I am concerned he can knock himself out, just do not charge it to the credit card that we pay for.

so it is ok for Tim Groser to spend $1300 on a meal in Lima but its not ok for Shane Jones to spend $20 on a porno movie in Auckland ? If people think that Jones should have just taken care of himself for free why don’t we insist politicians eat at Mc Donalds ?

Spoff did he reimburse before or after they announced they would be reviewing the expenditure. makes a massive fucking difference.

i suspect he only repaid it once he realised he would be caught, there is no character in that. character would be either not doing it at all, or on a very rare occasion that he had to use the work card, payng it back the next month, not when there is an enquiry.

“Jones’ candour has been a breath of fresh air in the fetid atmosphere of hypocrisy that has come to pervade NZ politics. It is with great regret that I view what may be the eclipse of a very bright star.”

Since when masturbating on the publci teat is called “candour”. Spare me the sanctimonious defense of the indefensible.
If Jones is a “bright star” then Carter and Tizard must be “super novas” in your book. Both are frauds and cheats in mine.

Given that Jones says he watches these movies because he’s a film buff, maybe he could enlighten us all with a review of these artworks and tell us all about the nuanced qualities of writing, acting and directing that attracted his refined tastes?

Oh how this would have played out differently if Shane had a Julie Andrews fetish.

Is it the nature of the movies or is it the fact of charging movies to the hotel account – a purely electronic transaction with no options for charging seperately.

Should Ministers be not allowed to use hotel telephones because they incur massive charge-up margins?
Should Ministers be allowed a bottle of water from the mini-bar but not a beer? (Try drinking from the tap in Yemen or American Samoa, you will be lucky to make it home)
Should Ministers be allowed a meal in the hotel restaurant but not a packet of nuts while reading the day’s briefings?
Should the leader of a delegation of 10 or more people be authorised to shout for the team during a 10 day conference/negotiating session?
Should Ministers have to carry their own soap poweder and wash their shirts/socks/undies in the hotel bath each night as well as iron and press their suits and shirts while being interviewed at some ungodly time-zone differential on NewstalkZB’s morning show? (Chris Carter would have to be excepted because he seems to always have had his “wife” along with him to drive and keep him company.)

C’mon BB and all the others who haven’t the faintest idea of the workloads or practical matters faced by these people, come up with a set of workable rules different from the one that principally says “no private expenditure on the CC”

If you can’t then take a deep breath and think for a couple of hours about what is motivating you to tmake some of the stupidest statements I have seen since I last looked at The Standard.

American Gardener – “If people think that Jones should have just taken care of himself for free ”

FFS the man had a wife waiting for him back at home. He couldn’t wait two days?
If it is too much to expect he can’t go two or three days without having to get his rocks off then you’d think he’d figure that out on the first trip and make provisions next time (like get some porn off the internet, or remember to take his eftpos card so the charge wouldn’t appear on his ministerial CC).