Business Coach | How to Deal With Office Confronting and Holding Employees Accountable

Audio Transcription

Listen As The Business Coach Explains How To Confront Your Employees : Podcast Transcript

In this Episode, Business Coach, Clay Clark, and Dr. Z have the lovely Vanessa Clark as they talk about how to confront your employees correctly. Tune in to find out the 3 tips to hire before you fire.

Narrator: Now, broadcasting from the center of the universe and the thrive15.com world headquarters. Presenting the world’s only business school without the BS with optometrist and entrepreneur Dr. Robert Zoellner and the former school business administration entrepreneur of the year in your ear Clay Clark. It’s the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170. Three, two, one, boom.

Clay: Boom, boom, boom. Thrive nation we are in your room. You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show during your afternoon. My name is Clay Clark, I’m the former SBA entrepreneur of the year and I am a business coach here to help you learn how to start and grow a business. Today I’m super excited because the man is back. The man is back, it is Dr. Robert Zoellner back on the show.

Robert: It’s so good to be back.

Clay: I miss you.

Robert: Hi, thrivers.

Clay: Man, I tell you what? Z you’ve gone to a Vikings game, you’ve gone to Guatemala, you’ve been all over the planet, my friend.

Robert: All over the planet. In fact I’m not even sure what planet I was visiting at the time. It’s that interstellar.

Clay: Now, my understanding is you also have been to Las Vegas is that correct?

Robert: Yes, absolutely.

Vanessa Clark: I really want to add that we have been to Las Vegas and we actually just got back and then Clay can add how epic our trip was. He can tell you later some of the experiences.

Clay: Yes, now, I’m going to tell you a little something about our Las Vegas trip that was really epic.

Vanessa: Amazing.

Clay: We’re staying there at Ceasars Hotel.

Robert: But I didn’t think the music was ever going to stop I’m like —

Vanessa: It was a party. It was a playing party for you Z.

Robert: I’m back and that’s good.

Clay: Well, we had to keep that intro music going for quite awhile because you were back, we’re excited about it.

Robert: Well, you know what, you should be.

Clay: Now, here’s the deal we were staying at Z at Ceasars–

Vanessa: We’ll tell you our party at Ceasers, go boy.

Clay: We were staying at Ceasers Hotel and I wake up Z and I hear the sound of running water and I’m going, “Have we, have we gone to sleep and him and woke it up near a waterfall?” and I realized, “No, we have not it is a leaking toilet.” It flooded our room about an inch and a half of water.

Vanessa: Yes. Well, when the toilet the toilet started running I realized that if I held it perfectly I can make it stop but at a certain point we needed to call for help. I had to go with that, go call for help and by the time that I came back to it, it had flooded out into our room.

Clay: Yes. They made us stay in another room. The other room did not have running water so we moved to a third room and that was our trip but they’re great people.

Vanessa: Yes. Between each of these things at least 45 minutes before we’d moved rooms and then we’d realize, “This new room, this is great we’re partying time to get ready, Clay, no water,” then another hour and a half-

Robert: You guys are the Clarks are obviously very high maintenance. We want running water, we don’t want it, we want it, we don’t want I mean you know it’s —

Speaker: We were pretty impressed with ourselves though we said, “This is awesome only this would happen to us.”

Clay: It’s our Vegas vacation.

Vanessa: That’s right.

Clay: Now, Z we’re talking today about a topic I’m very excited to get into. It’s how to deal with office confrontation and holding employees accountable.

Robert: I love this topic and if we don’t get into at least — we got a two hour show we got to get into at least a fight an hour over this one because this is conflict. It just gets me a little —

Clay: It’s romantic almost.

Vanessa: I think I’m going to part you two against each other.

Clay: All right now here’s the deal. This is the question that’s comes out here from Megan. She says that, “I wanted to get better at being confrontational and keeping my cool. Not coming off as a jerk but just assertive.” This is Megan from Boca Raton, Florida. Again, she wants to know, “I want to get better at being confrontational and keeping my cool not coming off as a jerk but just being assertive.” We’re going to and get into the steps here. Step number one is don’t replace until you can. Let’s talk about this. Megan, if you have somebody on your team who’s just pushing everyone of your buttons and you know that it’s time to replace them, Z talk to her about why she can’t just replace people immediately until you have a backup plan.

Robert: Can I tell the listening audience one of my favorite stories?

Clay: Please do.

Robert: It deals with this exact thing.

Clay: Okay.

Robert: All right. One day I’m in my office and I’ve got half a dozen doctors working for me in my practice, my optometric practice and one of the doctors comes up and says, “Hey, listen Z my husband got a new job in a new city so I’m going to have to put in my notice because we’re going to move and you know my husband it’s kind of a big deal to me so I’m going to go live — I’m going to go, I’m going to go live with him so therefore I can’t work for you,” and I said, “You know what? Hey, I appreciate the time you put in here you know nobody’s there forever,” she did her season, she did her tour of dignity-

Vanessa: That’s a great way to handle it.

Robert: Yes, and I said, “Absolutely, what can I do to help blah blah blah,” and so she’s going to leave. Well, then later on that afternoon I had another knock on my door and one of my other doctors came in and she said to me, “Z can I have a few minutes?” which is never a good sign by the way.

Clay: Yes, by the way it’s like, “We need to talk.”

Vanessa: “We need to talk.”

Robert: Never good. She says, “Hey, listen I know you just got some bad news this morning that that other doctor’s going to move off,” and I said, “Yes, yes,” and she said, “Well, I hate to do this to you but if I don’t get a raise and better hours I’m going to quit too.”

Vanessa: Premeditated.

Robert: Here Megan, here is the crossroad you find yourself. I could have A, gotten mad, thrown a fit and fired her right then that’s a choice. B I could have just cried, gotten in a fiddle position in the corner and just shutdown for awhile. That’s B. C I could have done this and check this one out, Megan. I could have said, “You know what? I think you need a better schedule.”

Clay: Yes.

Robert: I think you need that pay raise you’re talking about because you are a valued employee. Thank you for pointing that out and how soon can we start this new program?

Clay: Now as a business coach, I have a question for you and I have a question for Vanessa. I want to break this down because Vanessa she’s married to me. It’s like the entrepreneur’s wife. It’s a story behind the story when in you are the entrepreneur, you’ve been through this for years and you’ve been in the trench’s doing this. I want to start with you here. When someone comes to you and they put in their two week notice do they ever give you a two week notice before the two week notice or they just do what it’s best for them?

Robert: Always when it’s best for them.

Clay: Has it ever happened to you at a poor time maybe like pre thanksgiving?

Robert: Every time it’s at a bad time.

Clay: Maybe even the week of Christmas potentially?

Robert: Ho, ho ,ho.

Clay: That’s happened?

Robert: Yes.

Clay: Then have you ever in your — because you’ve been — your optometry clinic is celebrating its 25th of success.

Robert: Boom.

Clay: Have you ever in those 25 years maybe your first couple of years in business. Have you ever accidentally at any point lost your mind in just a fit of rage where someone turns in their two week notice the day that you really need them and you knew they were sitting on it. Have you ever even one time ever lost your mind and then maybe fired somebody too quickly or maybe made an irrational decision? Have you ever done it ever?

Robert: Only on idea but here’s the deal, Megan. My doctors there I do choice C, I give her what she wants and in my mind I say this, here’s my internal dialogue I go, “You just got fired but I’m not going to do it until it’s opportune for the business.”

Clay: Do you talk about it? This is where you’re out? Can you sleep at night?

Robert: No, I sleep at night well, yes. What I did is I went out and I found and hired two new doctors and within 30 days I had two new doctors working for me thrivers and guess what I did. I called, so the one doctor she moves off with her husband, great life, she’s doing good, salute and the other doctor I called up to my office and I said, “Hey, how are you doing?”

Clay: How are you?

Robert: How’s your day going?

Clay: I’m so excited.

Robert: I went to say, “Remember when you came in here about one month ago approximately and you’ve made those demands on me?”

Clay: I do remember that.

Robert: Yes.

Clay: Yes.

Robert: I said that day you were fired.

Clay: I thought you were settling.

Robert: But you know what? I’m not going to say that until today. You need to pack your stuff and you need to walk out this office right now as Trump would say, “You’re fired.”

Clay: Now, I’m going to ask Vanessa this because Vanessa has been married to me for a long time. She’s been around the entrepreneurship game. She’s seen the wife’s perspective.

Robert: Okay.

Vanessa: Sure.

Clay: The ladies on the business and the husband supports the wife its — but if you are the supportive role. When you see somebody attempt to screw me over and play these games but like the situation that Dr. Z just explained that has happened over and over again and happens typically about every five months. How do you emotionally deal with that as a wife knowing that that’s happening to me? Does it ever freak you out?

Vanessa: I think that I don’t know if it’s the mom in me or what but it’s almost like a mama bear where you’re protective I mean this is my husband and how can you be doing this to him and it takes work that I have to know, “You know what? Just,–” you have taught me I mean I’m not the type, I’m not a fighter anyways but I am someone who’s pretty transparent and it makes me want to be like, “I don’t want to look at them, I don’t want to talk to them,” but you know what I’ve learned just you’re going to treat everyone nicely and in the end it’ll be taken care of.

Clay: Here’s the action item that I would like to distill from this and Z if I’m getting it wrong you tell me.

Robert: Okay. But could this be our first fight?

Clay: This could be — this is a notable quote from Jack Welch. He says-

Robert: I love Jack Welch.

Clay: -he says, “Be candid with everyone,” but I would like to add in the little — in maybe a little disclaimer. Be candid with everyone when you can.

Robert: That’s true.

Clay: Right?

Robert: Absolutely.

Vanessa: Keep your enemies close.

Robert: Well, the thing about it is the filter you should be running everything through is what is best for the business. What is best for the business? Not you personally well, if you own the business then maybe the same, but still you always run through that, ”What’s best for the business.” If it’s best for the business to say what I’m thinking right then great, and if it’s not, keep your mouth shut.

Clay: I’m going to say this. One, is be candid when you can, but the second little action item I want to distill from that is that don’t create emergencies for yourself. Don’t do it. I have totally– early on the DJ career, a guy would tell me, “Hey, I just want you to know I’m taking a job working for our chief competitor, and I start in two weeks.”

Vanessa: I can attest to this because I DJ’d twice and it wasn’t because I wanted to be a DJ.

Clay: My move earlier on my career was like, “You know what, so you need two more weeks? Yes, you know what, you’re fired right now.” I find myself DJ’ing four weddings in the same weekend.

Robert: Yes, but Vanessa show up and DJ.

Vanessa: That’s right. I showed up twice.

Clay: Again, I’ve learned that overtime, but all I’d say is just don’t fire the cannon until you’re ready. Make sure you’re ready to fire that cannon.

Robert: It’s so difficult because you’re so fired up. You’re emotional, they’re in your face, you’re faced with this thing right then, and you’re just like, “Huh huh huh huh”. You know what, they don’t think about counting and thinking and waiting is so good.

Clay: Now Z, sometimes when I get super angry I hear this on my head now, “Be calm. Don’t say what you want to say.”

Vanessa: I’m rubbing your head.

Clay: I come home and I tell Vanessa like, “Babe, I want to kill a man. Is that legal? Can I kill–“

Vanessa: Just lay and get a full body massage. Just lay.

Robert: They frown upon that thing.

Clay: This is just in. Even with the new president, you still cannot kill a man. That’s just in. Thrivers, when we come back, we’re going to be teaching you step number two. Step number two, and do you want to know what the step number two is how to handle employee confrontation.

Robert: I want to know.

Clay: Z, do you want to know what it is?

Robert: I want to know.

Clay: I would love to tell you, but you’re going to have to stay tuned until after the break Z.

Robert: You’re such a tease sometimes.

Clay: You got to stay tuned, my friend.

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Narrator: Live, local, now. You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: All right Thrive nation, welcome back to the Thrive Time Show, Tulsa’s only local business radio show, in your audio dojo of mojo, fo sure. If you want to learn how to start and grow a business, you have found your show. It’s the Thrive Time Show. It’s business school without the BS. Yes, my name is Captain Clay Clark and I am a business coach, and guess what thrivers, who is joining me today in the box that rocks, none other than my co-host with the most, the man with a plan, the guy who is back form his international and national traveling. It is Doctor Robert Zoellner.

Robert: That’s right. Hey, throwback Thursday. It’s cold in Tulsa. You know what, you’re like a viking from up north. This is probably shorts and T-shirt weather for you I would imagine.

Clay: I was rocking shorts yesterday.

Robert: Well, of course you were.

Clay: We have another guest we brought on today. We want to bring a fair and balanced perspective for this show, and rumor has it that the population in Tulsa is roughly 50% women, roughly, and 50% dudes.

Robert: Wow, that’s just in?

Clay: Yes, we’re always trying to bring you the women. Women entrepreneurs. This is just in. This is breaking news. This is just in. We have my wife of 15 years. She’s been putting up with me for a decade and a half, and she is here on the show, Miss Vanessa, the bird. How are you?

Vanessa: I’m doing great. Glad to be here in the box.

Clay: Here’s what we’re doing today, we’re talking about — we have a thriver who asked a question. By the way, if you’re listening right now and you want to ask a question, the questions are pouring in right now. Just email us, [email protected] People go, “Do you guys actually read that?” Email [email protected], and we actually respond to those questions.

Robert: Clay, before you go on, this is just in. Ratings just came out and I don’t know if you say them yet or not. We have just been rated the number one talk business radio show in Tulsa, Oklahoma. It’s kind of a big deal.

Clay: It is kind of a big deal. That’s just in?

Robert: Yes, this is just in. Thank you all the listeners out there, but also just in.

Robert: It goes up, but it’s come down. This is just in. I didn’t know if you knew that. It’s my first day back in a while.

Clay: I’m going to read this question in my best Walter Cronkite voice, here we go. “I wanted to get better at being confrontational, and keeping my cool. Not coming off as a jerk, but just assertive. Meagan. Florida”

Robert: Meagan Cronkite.

Clay: Step number two, you must commit to taking control. I’m going to tee it up by reading a notable quotable. Actually two of them, and then Z, I’m going to have you unpack it. The notable quotable comes to us from Jack Welch. Who’s Jack Welch? I don’t know. He grew GE by 4,000% during his tenure. I’m not impressed. It has to be 5,000 for me to care. This is the world’s best CEO arguably. He says this, “You’ve got to be rigorous in your appraisal system. The biggest cowards are managers who don’t let people know where they stand.”

He goes on to say, “My main job was developing talent. I was a gardener providing water and other nourishment to our top 750 people. Of course, I had to pull some weeds out too.” Z, when you commit to taking control of your business, you’re no longer a passive observer of the business. You’re saying, “I’m going to pull the weeds out of my garden.” Here’s what I see. I see a lot of entrepreneurs right now. You have an employee who works with you, and you’re in a meeting, and he or she talks back to you. You’re the owner of the business, and they talk back to you, or they provide unwanted feedback, or they argue in the meeting in front of other staff.

Now you know there’s not respect. They never said, ”I don’t respect you”, but you just saw it demonstrated. You could do two options. One, you could not take control, and you could let the person work there and fester, and it starts to spread and they start to talk —

Robert: They need an income. They have a car payment, and their kids are in daycare, and they got to eat. They can’t just go and steal food.

Clay: Option B, is you could say, “This person is fired right now. I might not fire them today, but through a rigorous recruiting system, I’m eventually going to replace them.” Correct?

Robert: Rigorous, I like that.

Clay: Walk me through, why does so many entrepreneurs settle for good and put up with employees that give them unwanted feedback, talk back to them, and don’t respect them?

Robert: Well, because they don’t have any respect for their own business. They don’t have any respect for themselves. We’ve talked on the show before — that’s the great thing about the show. You go to thrivetimeshow.com and you can binge listen to all the past shows. If you’re in with that kind of thing. What happens is that, we’ve talked about great employees and bad employees. Those are the easy ones to sort out.

Clay: I think all employees are the same?

Robert: No, they’re not.

Clay: They’re all the same.

Robert: Putin, Putin, stop it. Putin, did you hack our show?

Clay: They’re all the same. This is my favorite song.

Robert: Put your shirt back on Putin. Put your shirt back on. Anyway, good is really the opposite and that’s the bad one in this example. What happens is good — just in that example. They’re no okay employee, they talk back, they don’t show respect, or they’re teaching other people to be that way, and if you put up with that, it’s like a weed in your garden. You’re like, “Well, a weed needs a place to grow too.”

Clay: Give me an example through your career where you’ve had an employee — you don’t have to mention in details. Give me a time where you’ve seen a subtle push back, and you know that there’s no respect there. You’ve been in a meeting, or you’ve asked something to be done, and then something maybe — can you get to describe a situation where you’ve seen, you’ve caught — because someone listening right now, is you’re having some of your staff members be disrespectful to you. You don’t even know it, because it’s become your normal. This has become your normal. You’re used to your staff arguing with you or not doing what you ask. What’s an example of that?

Robert: I had one employee a couple of years ago, it’s been more than a couple of years ago, but several years ago. In an office meeting, over in their corner where they hung out, they was just always laughing, and there was just always jackassary going on over there.

Clay: Yes, jackassary. From the root word jackass.

Robert: You look over there, and you’d stop talking and look at them and it take a while for them to realize that you’ve stopped talking because they’ve got a thing going on over there by themselves. There was a little leader of the pack over there [unintelligible 00:09:43] they go to their corner and do their thing there. I was finally like, “Really guys, come on. This is important stuff.” Okay, yes. Laugh laugh laugh laugh, some more laugh. Finally, I put up with that as long as I wanted to put up with that. I finally pulled the person aside and said, ”Listen, things just aren’t working out.”

Clay: Oh no.

Robert: Yes.

Clay: Here comes.

Robert: I got two words for you they both start with B.

Clay: B.

Robert: B. Not B bountiful, not B —

Clay: Bed and breakfast?

Robert: You hear him on the plane all the time if you fly in any at all you hear the word the stewardess will always as you’re walking off. Buh-bye.

Clay: Now, I want to ask Vanessa this.

Robert: Buh-bye.

Clay: I want to ask Vanessa this. Vanessa, why was it so hard for me to fire people? You watch me. Why was it so hard for me for at least the first five years in the business.

Vanessa In the beginning because you were emotionally attached to them and wanting to help them and grow them. It just I think it hurt you.

Clay: I think Dr. Z he made a comment. He probably remember we had lunch and he made a comment to me. This was probably 15 years ago and you were still working there at the front desk with him. He made a comment to me he goes, “Are you a life coach?” and I remember going, “What?” and he goes, “Well, if you’re not a life coach then don’t life coach,” or something like that. You asked me that question.

Robert: Well, yes. Listen if you own a business and you want to be successful and you spend the energy and the time and the money to hire someone and then to train them to push the button and to do the thing to answer the thing about the thing and do the thing, you’re invested in them. You’re invested, you’ve got capital, you’ve got emotional and financial and capital and investment in this person. The day that you have to say to yourself, “I made a mistake,” that’s hard for some entrepreneurs to do because we’re goers, we get it done, well, we can fix this, we can make it happen. You know when you fire someone you’re basically saying to yourself, “I made a mistake in hiring them.”

Clay: I would say this, when you’re able to get to that point, thrivers, where you’re able to be honest about your team and who needs to be replaced, things are going to improve. I want you to make a list right now all the people who work for you. Go ahead and do it make a list. Jack Welch tells you to do it and I want you to go ahead and write the name of the bottom 10% down on that sheet of paper and when we come back we’re going to tell you what to do with the bottom 10% of your payroll. Stay tuned Thrive Time Show.

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Narrator: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Hey, my name is Clay I’m the co-host with the most of the Thrive Time Show and you are — if you’re tuning in right now first time you are ready for an audio — its audio pageantry, it’s audio accoutrements, it’s audio excellence. It is the Thrive Time Show where we teach you how to start and grow a successful business. Again, my name is Clay Clark and I’m joined here as always with the co-host with the most it’s Dr. Robert Zoellner.

Robert: Ta-da. I’m back.

Clay: We missed you, my friend.

Robert: Well, and I missed you guys too. I tell you what I listened to the show the other day and Vanessa was on there and, Vanessa, you’re doing a fantastic job.

Vanessa Thank you.

Robert: For those of you watching on Facebook live you’re gaining a little eye candy with Ms. Vanessa.

Clay: Wow.

Robert: A certified —

Vanessa It’s the jacket, it’s the jacket.

Robert: A certified beauty queen and we still don’t know how Clay gathered you up but —

Clay: Well, she actually from-

Vanessa He’s tricky.

Clay: -from a medical perspective-

Robert: He’s tricky [laughter].

Clay: -because you’re an optometrist, right? What do you call when somebody has no vision either directly or a peripheral vision they really can’t see. What would you call that technically?

Robert: Blind.

Clay: I think that’s the deal.

Vanessa I have 20/20 vision. Tuesday, 20/20 vision.

Clay: Wow.

Robert: I’ll get you sooner or later don’t worry.

Clay: Maybe she has high sympathy.

Robert: I’ll get you back then.

Clay: Now, thrivers, we’re talking today about a topic that so many people want to know how to deal with. It is the specific topic of how to deal with office confrontation and holding employees accountable. Now, here is the deal step number two is you must commit to taking control. I don’t care if your team right now if you’re listening right now to the show and you’re going, “My team is crazy, man, my employees are now in charge.” If you’re listening right now and you’re going, “Oh, no my employees are in charge,” like they set their own schedules, they tell you when they’re going to work, they tell you what they will do, what they won’t do, they’re in charge.

Vanessa It’s a coo.

Clay: Then you right now, my friend, you get a benefit from this tip. Now, Jack Welch instructs everybody. He says, “Make a list of all your employees and go ahead and make a list of and sort them,” you go, “Sort them? Is that should I rate people?” Only if you want to be successful.

Robert: Only.

Clay: But what you do is you take your top 20% and you’re going to call them your A players.

Robert: A.

Clay: Now, the next 70 those people are B players in the bottom 10 that is the C players and someone says, “Well, I can’t, it’s just hard for me to tell,” well then you’re probably not going to be a successful entrepreneur. You should be able to quickly tell who’s an A, who’s a B, who’s a C. Someone says, “Well, what criteria?” An A shows up early and does more than is expected. A B gets there just on time and leaves just on time and only does what they’re expected and C’s do less than expected and complain.

Robert: Yes, and I have my five A’s that I grade each of my employees on.

Clay: Do tell.

Robert: Well, you have, “Are they doing above and beyond?”

Clay: Above and beyond.

Robert: Their appearance I mean we give out scrubs at my optometric practice and say —

Clay: Are you guys telling me I had to wear a shirt every day? Why?

Robert: Some people show up with their scrubs and looks like they’ve slept in them for three days. That’s a minus on the appearance side by the way.

Clay: No one told me I had to wear a shirt today.

Robert: Yes. Attitude, another word is attitude while they’re at work. Their accuracy, are they’re doing things correctly.

Clay: I thought we were using [unintelligible 00:06:18] Z. I thought it was just get close enough.

Robert: Exactly in attendance just like you were saying are they showing up on time or they’re working, are they beating you out of time, they’re taking too many breaks or they over there in their corner doing Instagramming, Snapchatting with a friend.

Clay: With the holidays it’s hard because the traffic was so big on 169.

Robert: It’s so bad.

Clay: When you think about how many cars there was lot of them.

Robert: People we work by the mall so it’s tough to get in and out of here I get it.

Clay: Yes, there’s people on the road.

Robert: People on the road. Those are the five A’s. If you’re a business owner you can go down those five A’s, you can give them — you can rate them one to 10 on each of those, you can give them a plus or minus, you can do however you’d like to do it and then you can add that up and then that can help you sort your employees if you don’t know. If you’ve got a lot of employees you don’t know them independently you sit down with your management team and your supervisors or your managers and they help you rank them.

Clay: Oklahoma is a big football-

Robert: Football.

Clay: -a football stage. You’re big boomer guy, you’re big center guy. There is OSU there’s OU. Okay. You got two major to you but we have got two major — we have three teams that are top 50 teams in the state. We’ve got some successful issue on football. Now, imagine what it would be like if those teams never cut a player. If there’s anybody who’d tried out just by virtue of having been there first they just stay on the team.

Robert: Yes, well, it’s all about senioritiship. That’s the thing that wears me out. Listen folks out there I’m going to free you, I’m going to give you something’s going to free up about employees. Just because the dude has been there longer than the other dude does not mean that he gets the promotion over the dude that hasn’t been there very long. That makes sense?

Clay: Well, Z I —

Robert: Did you get that Clay?

Clay: No, Z I have been here since 1984 and when I came in here-

Robert: It’s my town.

Clay: -I don’t remember anybody else coming in here before 1984, right? So why I should I be in charge of everything, correct?

Robert: Yes, just the other day my lab. We have this time to hire a new lab manger and we promote a young man Ronald he hadn’t been there as long as somebody of the lab guys-

Clay: Hello, Ronald.

Robert: -and then they get just absolutely upset.

Clay: I swear. Since 1984 I have been here.

Robert: I was here before you. How dare you promote him.

Clay: Biologically it wasn’t possible for him to get here before me because he was born on the year I started.

Robert: Yes, exactly. But I’ll tell you what folks it’s not a seniority contest.

Clay: What?

Robert: It’s a performance based. If you want to have a successful business you promote the people that are doing the best for your business. Here again the filtered well, I said in the earlier segment you should always filter through is what is best for the business.

Clay: Now, Vanessa, of mere perspective you’ve seen this happen. You’ve seen it in the past where I have promoted someone who’s worked at the office much less for a lot shorter period of time than somebody who this guy somebody who just started I promote them over somebody’s who’s been there over a year.

Vanessa True.

Clay: What always happens?

Vanessa It upsets the people who’ve been there longer and there’s a little — there’s some jealousy and the thing that’s interesting to me is it’s easiest to deal with when they do it to your face but when it’s the passive aggressive and they agree to your face and then it’s the sneakiness behind the back but you always take care of it.

Clay: The sneaky, sneaky. Now, here’s the deal, thrivers,-

Robert: Sneaky makes sneakerson?

Clay: -if you’re listening right now we’re going to teach when we come back after the break how to take control of the situation in a way that’s not going to create calamity in your office because if you’re not smart about it and you go out there and you start grading people and giving them a bottom 10% ranking and you’re out there holding court and trying to dramatically make changes overnight without having a stream of new people coming into the business you’re just not going to have any success.

When we come back we’re going to teach you about how to, going to have a fair and balanced perspective. Yes you want to make these changes but you want to have a [unintelligible 00:30:01] on the new people coming in.

Robert: We’re almost done with the first hour and we haven’t had a full on fight.

Clay: Fight them again, coming up next.

Robert: Next segment, let’s get it on.

Clay: Fighty McFighterson.

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Clay: All right, thrive nation. All right dream country. All right, Oklahomees. Welcome back into the box that rocks. This is your audio jojo of mojo, my name is Clay Clark the former SBA Entrepreneur of the Year and the father of five human kids and a business coach. So far to my knowledge I have not screwed them up yet and in the process of matriculating and of coaching these five wonderful young humans we’ve also been growing successful businesses. Who is we?

It’s my wonderful wife miss Vanessa Clark and myself. And today as always I’m joined with the co-host with the most. This is a guy who has an optometry clinic that’s very successful. He has an auto auction that is very successful. He invested in a bank that’s doing very well. He has a sleep center. He has a horse ranch. He’s a sleep center durable medical company? He’s involved in too much stuff. Dr. Robert Zoellner, how are you?

Robert: I’m fantastic. I’m so glad to be back. I’ve been gone all week and you know what? I’m back.

Clay: You are.

Robert: Thrivers, here we go. It’s a great show. This show really if you’re an entrepreneur this is some of the stuff you struggle with day to day and that is confronting the bad employees, the substandard employees and not being a total jerk about it because nobody wants to go through life and be the jerk. But you want to prune your business. You want to help your business. You want to make your business better because that’s what this show is about. This show is about taking you from over here in business — if you’re looking on Facebook Live, over here to over here. You know the study came out that 80% of businesses fail —

Clay: According to Forbes.

Robert: Yes, that’s the thing.

Clay: That’s not good.

Robert: We want to erase that number. We want to take that number down to zero. That would be the big zero so we’re going to give you practical tips on day to day stuff to help you manage, control and take your business from just surviving to —

Clay: Thriving.

Robert: Thank you. Right on cue.

Clay: Now Z we’re moving on. You were talking about how to deal with the office confrontation. We were talking about step number one don’t replace people until you can. Step number two you have to take control. I was going to give you just a little transitionary move before you go out there and you start implementing this. There’s a Bible story and I know some of you are going, “The Bible? That’s offensive.” Well then get off our show. But here’s the thing, this is Joseph in the Bible Genesis 37 allegedly. Joseph runs around telling people various things. Joseph is like 17 years old and he gets up and — you tell me if I’m getting this story wrong. Vanessa knows this bible better than I do.

Vanessa: Yes, I have the Bible.

Clay: He gets up and he basically tells his brothers, “Hey brothers, I had this dream.” And they go, “Okay, what was your dream?” Well, I had this dream where basically you guys are going to be working for me someday. That’s essentially what this dream was, right?

Robert: Yes, when you break it down that’s right.

Clay: So he has a dream. He says, ”You know I had a dream.” And he goes on explain it. Joseph told the people — and I’m not arguing with the Bible I’m just telling you this is what happened. He goes out there and Joseph literally tells his brothers. He said to them, “Please hear this dream which I have dreamed. There we were binding sheaves in the field but then behold my sheaf arose and also stood upright and indeed your sheaves stood all around and bowed down to my sheaf.”

They go, “Wait a minute this story, this story is us bowing down to you. We don’t like this story.” You see what do people do when they hear a story like — when you share your dream with people or people begin to realize that your plan maybe doesn’t involve them. What typically begins to happen?

Robert: Jealousy.

Clay: And a mutiny.

Robert: Jealousy, mutiny, anarchy, piracy, jackassery —

Clay: Here’s what I’m going to say and then you can argue with me I’m ready for it. I would argue, ”Do not be transparent with your team until you’re ready for it.”

Narrator: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Robert: Here’s the deal. You can’t tell them until you’re ready and it’s up to you to decide when you’re ready to tell them because you know what’s going to happen. They’re going to look at you and go, “What?” just like he did with his dream. He said it to his brothers, it’s like, “What? What are you saying?” Here’s the thing, entrepreneurs, if you’re out there listening, wantrepreneur, entrepreneur, business owner, business dude.

Your dream is yours and when you share it with somebody get ready for them to go, “Oh Billy, that’s a stupid idea. That’s –” be negative Nancys. I’m sorry if there’s any Nancys listening out there. I don’t mean to put you all in one bucket. But that’s a term I use is and what I mean is everybody out there is wanting to do their thing and sometimes when they share it too early people give so much negative energy to it, it just shuts them down.

Clay: I’m just going to give you three quick examples. Imagine what it would have felt like to be in the room of the Glenn Beck Show when Glenn goes, “Guys I had this vision.” ”What’s the vision, Glenn?” “I’m going to call my show the Glenn Beck Show.” ”Mine name’s Dave, though?” [laughs] ”Can it be the Glenn and Dave Show?” ”No, no, the Glenn Beck Show.” This is what it says in verse 10. It says, “He told it to his father and his brothers and his father rebuked him and he said what is the dream that you have dreamed?

Your mother and I and your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth before you. And his brothers envied him but his father kept the matter in mind.” The point is people don’t react well. That’s an example two. Example number three, you put on your name on your building. It’s Dr. Robert Zoellner & Associates.

Robert: Yes, It’s my business. Crazy I know to put that on the building.

Clay: But I guarantee you there’s been somebody who’s either said it out loud or thought it, “Who’s he think he is putting his name on the building. He puts his name everywhere. Does he have a problem?”

Robert: Well studies show that Z’s kind of a cool letter and you got a cool letter in your name, take advantage of it.

Clay: Have you ever been told though that you’re kind of egotistical to put your name on things?

Robert: Yes, of course.

Clay: It’s just part of the deal.

Robert: It’s jus part of the deal. You just have to learn to take it in stride. People are going to poo poo on your dreams and as an entrepreneur, you got to get thick skin and here’s the deal. If you don’t tell them they can’t poo poo on it, be prepared because it’s going to happen. You’re going to get kick back and so you say, “I don’t want kick back.” Then keep your mouth shot.

Clay: This is what you do, thrivers. One, do not communicate things that the people don’t need to hear yet. Do not do it.

Robert: Amen.

Clay: There’s an interview that Donald Trump did with I think Lesley Stahl. It was on the 60 minutes. I love the interview because she says to him, “What are your plans with the military during your first hundred days?” And he goes, “I’m not going to tell you and no president should either.” Boom. Because you are not going to tell the enemy what your plans are. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

Robert: Oh is this a political show?

Clay: No, we’re moving on.

Robert: I thought this was home and gardening.

Clay: Back to gardening.

Robert: Honey, what channel do you have it on?

Clay: Back to the gardening. [crosstalk] You want to do interviews constantly. Z why do you have to never stop interviewing?

Robert: I love your super move. Every Tuesday you just round them up five o’clock. That’s it, you do a group interview and you sort them out. [laughs] The other day I’m showing up a little bit late because I need to come by the office to do some stuff and so a little after five o’clock. And there’s a dude in the Thrive Station, the Thrive 15 Headquarters and he’s like, “Hey, hey bro, hey.” He didn’t know who I am. ”Hey bro I’m here for that interview thing, man.” I’m like, “Okay it’s cool, bro.” And he said,” Yes but I’m a couple minutes late so they won’t let me in the interview process.” True story. This was just a couple of weeks ago. If you listen out there, I don’t know your names I can protect you for that.

I can’t say your name. Here’s the deal I was like,”Oh man, I guess that’s the rules I don’t know — my desk is over here I got to go do my thing.” He said, “Hey bro, can you sneak me in [laughs] to the interview process?”

Clay: Okay let me tell you how our group interview works. Every week we constantly recruiting for coders, web developers, photographers, designers. Thrive15.com is growing. It’s expanding. My businesses are growing. Your businesses are growing. We’re always looking for great people. We do an interview every single Tuesday at five and of the — let’s say there’s 50 people that apply for the job guess what percentage of the people typically show up on time. Within even 15 minutes.

Robert: I would say 80 — 75%

Clay: It’s about half.

Robert: Oh, okay.

Clay: They would even show up within 15 minutes of when it starts.

Robert: Okay.

Clay: Then, of those people, what percentage of the — We are down to half.

Robert: Now we’re down to half. Boom. First cut, first cut.

Clay: Of the half, how many of them argue with the person who is interviewing them.

Robert: [laughs] Another half of those?

Clay: Usually one or two. They just argue straight up, in the interview.

Robert: They just like — like what? Okay, let’s roleplay.

Clay: Like, Marshall will say, “Alright, what I want you to do, is I want everybody to go and write down your goals. Then what we are going to do this, we are going to open up for questions that you might have about the job.” Someone is like, “I don’t want to write down my goals, I just want to know– what does this job pay?”

Robert: Ooh, ooh.

Clay: And he’s like, “Well, I think it is not going to work” and it’s just always that kind of thing.

Robert: You, not a lot.

Clay: Yes. We just have to do a constant interview process. But, you know what? I picked up that idea because OU, great football team, great college football team in Oklahoma. They recruit, this just in, every year.

Robert: Every year they recruit, and they recruit all the time. And the thing about it is if you own a business out there, you should always have your mind open to recruiting. You are at a restaurant, you are at Applebee’s —

Clay: Applebee’s.

Robert: Where you used to work for that fine institution.

Clay: Yes, beautiful.

Robert: You are in Oklahoma Joe’s, don’t steal those. Or, [unintelligible 00:41:05] Arthur, sorry, we are still employees for [unintelligible 00:41:08].

Clay: Sorry, Arthur, sorry.

Robert: But, my point is that when you are going through the day, and you meet someone who impresses you, you should say to yourself, “Wow that’s a very impressive person, I see it all out there, their wonderful life.” No, you should be thinking to yourself, ”That’s a very impressive person. I wonder if I can have them on my team.”

Clay: When we come back we are going to be talking about this next move, this next step, is the step three. Is deliver an artful critique. Now, my wife knows that I’m a man-bear-pig, so I am going to get her perspective. She is going to share the evolution because she has seen me go from Mr. Never-Off-For-Any-Criticism at all, because I want to be the nice guy, to then Captain-Yells-a-Lot, to now finding somewhere in the middle where I am trying to get more and more artful with my critiques in the workplace. So we come back therewe are going to break it down. Because Z it is tough to learn how to do an artful critique, is it not?

Robert: Speaking of artful, I’m surprised that whole story of Joseph, you didn’t get in his multi-colored coat. Because you are an art major, and you are very artistic. I am surprised you did not slip that in.

Clay: Let me tell you this, thrivers, if you are a business owner, and you have a multi-colored robe, don’t wear that around the new people until you’re ready for them to all be jealous.

Robert: [laughs]

Clay: That’s the rule, otherwise they are going to throw you in a pit.

Robert: Apparently that’s the move.

Clay: That’s the move. Now, thrivers, we come back, seriously, we are going to teach you the specifics of how to deliver an artful critique. How to give somebody some constructive criticism in the workplace. Stay tuned.

[music]

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Narrator: Broadcasting from the center of the universe. Featuring optometrist turned entrepreneur Dr. Robert Zoellner, and USSVA entrepreneur of the year, Clay Clark. This is is The Thrive Time Show, on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Hello, thrive nation, welcome back to your inspiration station. It’s Talk Radio 1170, my name is Clay Clark. I’m the co-host of The Thrive Time Show. And, you are in for a treat today, because we are talking about the stuff behind the stuff. You see, a lot of times there are these business books where they say, “What you want to do is you want to go and recruit the ideal candidate.” So you, “Okay.” Then, they say, “You want to write this perfect job description.” You go, “Okay.”

Then, what you want to do is you want to look for the right fit. And you go, “Okay.” Then, all of a sudden you hire them, next thing you know entitlement begins to set in, greed, anger, frustration, miscommunication. Next thing you know you have got a bunch of terrorists working in your building, holding you hostage. And, all you are trying to do is make a profit, and they are just holding you hostage and your brain — you think it is going to explode. Then you go, wait a minute, “I found this show, it’s The Thrive Time Show, they are going to give me some hope.” Dr. Zoellner, sir how are you?

Robert: I’m fantastic, welcome on this Thursday, thrivers. I am back, it is good to be back, Clay. We are graced with your wife today on the show, who has a wonderful insight and perspective. You’re the father of five children, word on the street is that she is the mother of five humans.

Vanessa: True, true.

Clay: Can I ask you this — With being a mother of five kids, and being somebody who is married to an entrepreneur.

Vanessa: Yes.

Clay: And, you homeschool all five.

Vanessa: Well, I have a lot of help. Mr [unintelligible 00:45:16] is my helper, because of you, guys.

Clay: For anybody who is listening right now, who goes, “Is it possible to have a good marriage and a good business, is it possible?”

Vanessa: Yes, but the same way that you are intentional about wanting to start or grow business, thrivers, you’ve got to be intentional about having a good marriage, or if you are wanting to work out, or whatever area it is, the same principles apply. And, voila, there you go.

Robert: I don’t want to work out, I sweat when I do that.

Clay: She’s been reading the cue cards. That’s code for [unintelligible 00:45:43] her a lot.

Vanessa: He knows I’m passionate about this.

Clay: So here we go Z. We’re talking today though about how to specifically deal with an employee confrontation. How to deal with it.

Robert: I know in our last segment we let off on the interview step, and I don’t want to skip over that because that is so huge. You do a super move which is a group interview, you’re always looking for great people in different categories. So, you just bring them in, cattle call, and you do this great super move on them. But, I tell you what, I’m an entrepreneur, I’m starting my business, I’m getting ready to hire someone. Clay, tell me some of your super move questions in an interview. Because that’s the thing about it, as I sit down across the table from someone I’m like, “Okay — Yes, thanks for — Yes. Come on in and — Yes –“

Clay: There are three simple moves. I’ll unpack those.

Robert: Please do because a lot of people don’t know the questions to ask. Then, they end up with all these horrible terrorist employees, and they kind of go, “What am I doing wrong?”

Clay: Okay, here’s what I do. Here’s the big three I do, okay? One, is I go over the goals, the roles, and then compensation.

Robert: What?

Clay: So, goals, roles, compensation. And then, it’s, “Ask me anything.” Now, here’s what typically happens in a job interview. This is what typically happens, it should not happen in your interviews, but this is what happens. You are going online, you are the business owner. You are going online and you are looking up questions to ask people on an interview. So, you are already getting a list of your 20 questions you now found off Google. Then, the person who is interviewing has Googled, “The top 10 questions employers ask you.”

Robert: [laughs] They’re ready.

Clay: Yes. So, now you’re asking, you think you are tricky and you go, “So, let me ask you, can you explain to me a difficult situation that you’ve been through in the workplace, and how did you handle it.” And they are going, like a spelling bee, “A difficult situation that I–” They are mentally flat, going into the flashcards going, “My husband and I role-played on this last night, okay here we go. And a difficult situation I have encountered in the workplace was when somebody talked to me unprofessionally. And what I did to create a win-win — that’s my password I am supposed to remember — a win-win was –” And, it’s just so insincere.

Robert: It’s so insincere, you are right. And you’re like, “Oh, that’s a right answer.”

Clay: So what you do, is you do goals, roles, okay. Goals, roles, compensation. But, I go fast, and no one knows what question I’m going to ask.

Robert: Oh my gosh.

Clay: So, this is how the roleplay would be, here we go.

Robert: Sneakers McSneakerson.

Clay: So, like, “Alright guys, welcome to The Thrive15 interview here. My name is Clay Clark, I’m the founder of this incredible business and the most humble person in the office. Today we’re talking about the job — Do you want to work here? So the goals, the goal of Thrive15 is to mentor millions. That’s why I’m doing this, it’s to mentor millions.

Robert: Oh gosh.

Clay: If you want to come work here, it’s like your tour of duty. So, you can come work here for a year, or six months or whatever. And, when you’re here, I need you to do — We are interviewing for photographers tonight, I need you to take great photos.

Robert: Okay.

Clay: I need to show up on time.

Robert: Oh my — whoa whoa whao.

Clay: And to create compelling photos, so that way people will want to visit our website. Thus, we can mentor millions.

Robert: Yes, when you say, “On time.” You are meaning, like, “Close.” Right? Things happen, there’s traffic, I lost electricity last night. I mean, storms are very popular in Oklahoma, I could lose electricity, then what do I do?

Clay: We have a point system that we derived from Disney. And, by the way, thrivers listening right now, one of our Thrive15.com mentors, one of the guys who teaches our online video school courses — His name is Lee Cockerell. And Lee Cockerell, he used to manage Walt Disney World Resorts, and the 40,000 people who work there.

Robert: He is a stud.

Clay: And, they had a 12-point system that they created. Where basically, if you are late, you get three points.

Robert: Okay.

Clay: If you talk back to a supervisor. Three points.

Robert: Okay.

Clay: If you lie, 12 points.

Robert: Oof.

Clay: When you get 12 points you’re fired.

Robert: Okay.

Clay: And, if you get to the end of the year without using your points, or you going to have 11 points, whatever. Then, you restart at zero.

Robert: That’s nice. That is [unintelligible 00:49:36] [laugh]

Vanessa: It’s like a game.

Robert: Right at [unintelligible 00:49:38] I got three days left, I can be, woohoo, late. For three days. Then bam, reset.

Clay: Yes. It is [unintelligible 00:49:44] But Disney had to have some system to keep track of 40,000 people.

Robert: Yes, oh well.

Clay: So I lay out these rules, then I go over my values. I go over the values of Thrive15. Marshall goes over the values, and we go over specifically, again this is the goals, our specific values that we operate by.

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Clay: Some of them include be candid, we always tell people, “We have to be candid in our office. We’re not going to tell you what you want to hear. We’re going to tell you how it is.” Two, is everything has to have be organized. Everything has to have a name and a place. The next thing is we want to be prompt. We want to over deliver, and we just go over these values. After we do that, we begin asking them questions. We’ll say, “Our value is to over deliver, what does that mean to you, Stan?” Stan, who’s never met you before is like, “Uh”, and you can tell he was on a cell phone, because you just asked him a question.

Robert: Because he was just looking at his cell phone.

Clay: Yes, and you’re like, “So Stan”, he’s like, “Uh, yes.” Well then you go, “Lorry, when I say be candid, what does that mean to you?” Lorry is on it. Lorry is just sitting there at the edge of her sit and she’s like, “To me being candid is just being transparent and telling people where they stand when they’re at the workplace.” I’m like, “Exactly. That’s what we want to do.” I’ll say, “Lorry, what would be a situation where if you were the manager, you wouldn’t be candid to someone?” She’s like, “I don’t know.” I go, “That would be if I want to fire you and I don’t have a replacement yet. She’s like, “Oh.”

You could see she’s engaging, he’s not paying attention, and you rapid fire, and then you go over the roles. Now, this is the role I need you to have. If you come work here, these are the roles. This is what I need you to do. If you’re a photographer here and I need you to take photos for us, we take photos in many different states, in Texas, we go to San Diego, we go to Florida, all over the place. If you’re a photographer for us, in what states may you take photos? Again, this someone is like, “Uh. What was that question, bro?” They’re not involved. Vanessa, you’re going to say something.

Vanessa: When you’re done with this, I just want to touch on the same thing you’re touching about hiring about so many great firing stories about when you let a bad apple sit there and they spoil the whole bunch. Keep going. There’s too many, and they’re so good.

Robert: That here — story to come.

Clay: Here we go. They go over the goals, right? Then we go over the roles, then we go over compensation. I explaine to them specifically how they get paid, and then I open it up for questions. You know what’s great, is the good people ask questions.

Robert: I got one.

Clay: Yes, what’s your question there sir?

Robert: I don’t have one. I just thought I look like I did. I hope you don’t call on me because I don’t have a question. [crosstalk] I’ve got my hand up because I want you to think I’m a winner.

Clay: You’ve got the A plus guy who’s got a — he’s got a double major in something. This guy is pretty predictable and he’s like, “Here’s the deal. My question is when you say candour, do you mean candour as an always being transparent, or being transparent always?” You’re just like, “What is that really?”

Robert: “Billy, what’s going o, Billy?”

Clay: “I just was just trying to make a haiku and I did the rhyming scheme, and that was a haiku.” You know what I mean?

Robert: Yes.

Clay: You’re just like, “That’s great.”

Robert: You know what, not everybody is going to be answering during a group interview. You’re doing mostly it’s one-on-one. You’re an early entrepreneur, you just got your business going, and you’re going to do the moves, you’re going to do the hiring, you can do one-on-one. Not everybody is going to [unintelligible 00:52:50] 87 people and do a big interview like you you’ve now moved up to. These are the same things they can do during those. Goals, roles, and compensation, mix them up, rapid fire asking questions. The other thing about it is, there are these questions you can’t ask. That’s something you didn’t address, but there are some stuff out there you’re not supposed to ask.

Clay: One thing I like to talk about a lot is my five kids. I love to talk a lot about Israel and America and things like that. Without asking him about kids, I can tell if somebody hates kids without asking about the kids.

Robert: You’re sneaky. You’re saying that this — let me get this straight. This is just in. You don’t ask them specific questions, you talk about scenarios and see the reaction from them.

Clay: If you’re watching on Facebook live right now, in the background here I have the Israeli flag up on the wall and the American flag. We had a guy who is interviewing and he goes, “Hey bro, there’s two sides to that story bro.” And I go, “Excuse me?” And he goes, “No, I’m serious, bro. There’s two sides to that story. I don’t know if I appreciate that flag.” I’m like, “I don’t think it’s going to work out. I’m pro Israel bro.”

Robert: This is just in.

Clay: Here’s the thing is. Once I find out — once I find someone, I think I like them. Once I think I like them, the next move is I want to schedule them to shadow me quickly.

Robert: I love that move that you do.

Clay: When you have someone shadow you, you can find out real quick whether they’re a good fit or not.

Vanessa: What I think is so great about the questions and the shadowing move, for the questions is you’re putting them in your company’s culture. You’re letting them know, “These are our company’s goals. This is the role you would have within in our company, and now come during the day and basically you’re going to see how the company works.” They’re getting inundated with that culture and see whether or not it’s a fit.

Clay: When someone shadows me, I’m paying them for the day by the way. I pay them to shadow typically, depending upon the skill level position. I’ll pay them to shadow. [crosstalk] Once they shadow me, I’m trying to find the reason to fire them. I’m trying to find a reason in the first 24 hours of them working with me to fire them, because I don’t want to put up with those bad habits. That’s what Vanessa was talking about.

When we come back after the break, we’re going to get into what happens when you had somebody come to the interview, and they gave you a great resume, and they did a great job at shadowing. They showed up on time, looking good, smelling good, being nice. And then it’s day eight, you start to see that they’re getting rotten. You start to see it. What do you do Z?

Robert: When we come back, we’re going to tell you. Also, when we come back, I’m going to tell you a Jack Welch super move. My favorite CEO, and I’m going to free up you entrepreneurs minds with this move. Don’t you dare touch that dial, because the Thrive Time Show is coming right back.

Clay: Boom.

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Narrator: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: All right Thrive Nation, welcome back to your inspiration station. This is the Thrive Time Show, and as always we are broadcasting from the west coast of the Arkansas River, deep within the thrive15.com world headquarters, and within the box that rocks. My name is Clay Clark, and I’m joined here by Dr. Robert Zoellner. Dr. Z, what are we talking about today.

Robert: We’re talking about managing confrontations with your employees. Trust me, unless you are a lone wolf, if you have employees, you’re going to have confrontation with them. You will leave that confrontation and not to say to yourself, “Oh man, I’m such a jerk. That was so horrible. I feel so bad. I can’t seep for the next week.” We’re giving you practical steps in how to manage that confrontation so that you can survive it and thrive through it and move forward in life.

Clay: You teased us going into the break. You told us you were going to free us up. You had something you’re going to [crosstalk] and the rest will follow.

Robert: Clay is the DJ. Every time I throw out one or two words of a song, he’s “Bam.”

Vanessa: He’s on it.

Robert: He’s on it. Here is the deal. So many times, and I love listening to Jack Welch giving speech. He was I think probably the world’s best CEO. Great guy, awesome books. If you get a chance, read his books. One thing he said to me that really had an impact on what I was thinking. He said listen folks, you’re in the interview, and you’re looking at this person, and you’re talking to them, something inside your head says, “I just don’t like this person.” But they have all the qualifications, they’ve checked all the boxes, they gave me all the right answers, the resume is very impressive. Have a double major and blah blah blah.

Clay: You mean you wouldn’t hire someone just because you don’t like them?

Robert: Hey, I’m going to free your mind. It’s okay. It’s your business, it’s your money. You’re going to have to go in everyday and work with this person, and if you don’t like that person, it’s okay. Guess what, there’s another job down the road.

Vanessa: So true.

Clay: Did you know that the CEO of Zappos, Tony Hsieh, he explained you can find his quote online, but I’m paraphrasing. He explained that he often fires people that he doesn’t like for the reason that he doesn’t like them.

Robert: That’s okay. People out there are going, “Oh my gosh, that doesn’t seem very nice.”

Vanessa: Isn’t that why you own your own business, you have that luxury?

Robert: This is just in. The mom with the wisdom. The wife with the answer.

Clay: My wife, Vanessa Clark. For the, thrivers, who are listening, you’ve seen me mature from baby entrepreneur to where I’m at now.

Vanessa: I’ve been on the ride.

Clay: Why was it in your mind, how do you see me evolve in my ability to deal with confrontation over the years?

Vanessa: You know what, we were on this together. In the beginning I think like you said, any entrepreneur, you’re emotionally attached to these people you’re investing your time, your energy. When you see them as like, “They’re the one.” When they first come in. I think that when maybe the apple starts to spoil a little bit, you’re trying so hard to make it work, and instead of just being able to fire that person and let them go when they need to go, the worst thing you can do is keeping someone around past when they should be, because then they start to spoil the bunch and we do have some pretty crazy stories.

For example, there was one DJ who should’ve been gone a long time ago but we kept trying to work with them, trying to work with them, trying to work with them. Meanwhile, now he’s got this posse of 10 DJs surrounding him instead of one.

Clay: Quick insert. For those who don’t know, we started an entertainment company called DJ Connection.

Vanessa: True.

Robert: Entertainment.

Clay: Before we sold djconnection.com, we had about 4,000 events per year. We’re doing 80 every weekend. Back to you.

Vanessa: We started off with one guy who you knew how to go but we just kept trying to work with it, trying to make it happen. He’s holding you hostage. He’s just being a huge pain. Now he’s got this posse of eight to 10 friends who has with him who are starting to get spoiled as well.

Clay: Yes.

Vanessa: I remember you down in Dallas and I don’t think I was on this trip which was weird. I used to go to all the trips. I think at two in the morning.

Clay: True.

Vanessa: He was naked drunk out in the fountains. You were just like, “We’re here to do a bridal show.” How does he? It was crazy but it does.

Clay: Let me explain this to you. There was a person who was not following the rules and should’ve been let go. They were past their expiration date.

Vanessa: Yes.

Clay: Z, this is what happened.

Robert: Yes.

Clay: He went out to eat with a bunch of guys and he got in, these bad apples all went out to dinner after a bridal show.

Vanessa: You told them. You gave them rules specifically. You’re allowed to go to, but you’re like their dad. You are to go to bed.

Clay: Bridal shows’re like a trade show. It’s a two day deal with all the brides in Dallas. All come to the Dallas Market Hall to book their wedding.

Robert: [laughs]

Clay: I told the guys, if we book enough deals, I’ll take you out to eat, so I got out to eat. After we go out to eat, we’re staying at the Hyatt Hotel. I said, “I’m going to go to sleep. You guys have a good night. I’ll see you in the morning.” This guy has and I’m not kidding. Apparently, he had 11 long island ice teas.

Robert: That’s a lot.

Clay: Now there’s a buddha, a decorative buddha, a statue of a buddha in downtown Dallas. There’s a water fountain. It flows down.

Ad: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Somehow he got naked with everything except for his tighty-whities and he is now clinging to the top of a buddha. He doesn’t know even know how he got up there and he physically can’t get down now because he’s so intoxicated and he’s just discovered he’s there, so he’s holding the buddha. He’s a massive man and he can’t get down. The guys were calling me going, “Hey, we’ve got one of our guys here. He’s stuck up here in the fountain.” It’s like that scene from the Star Wars where Darth Vader’s telling Luke, “Luke, I am your father.” He’s like,”No, it’s not true.” “I am your father.” “No.” “Come join me.” “No.” It’s that scene where there’s no way for him to get back unless he can just nimbly get back to where he came from and he can’t because he’s hammered. This became my life because I refused to fire.

Vanessa: This story is not an anomaly. You think this is the only time? What about the guys when they were down in Atlanta and got shot at in a club full of an Asian gang? This is ongoing craziness.

Clay: One of my favorite ones was the guy that I didn’t fire and he blew up three vans, three consecutive weekends.

Vanessa: Broke the door of my van.

Clay: He broke it? [laughs]

Vanessa: The nicest car I had at the time. What was it? My jeep.

Clay: Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Vanessa: I was so upset.

Clay: The Eddie Bauer edition.

Vanessa: Got to get in through the passenger side after that.

Robert: Well good thing you learned after three because it could have been four.

Clay: Here’s the thing is though. Then eventually now, Vanessa how do I handle it now?

Vanessa: Well, the pendulum swing. You were so nice and so coddled them so much but you’re not that way. You’re a strong. I know you, you’re a strong guy. Suddenly, you’re like, “I’m not gonna take it anymore,” and so you would fire people which is great because we had to get rid of them. We knew that but suddenly we have weddings that are due this weekend and you’re looking at me. True story. “Vanessa, you’re going to go out and DJ.” I did know how to do it because I went to all the shows with you. You knew how to do the whole setup.

Clay: Yes.

Vanessa: I didn’t have that confidence to do it. I will tell you I got referrals on both my shows.

Clay: That’s true.

Vanessa: But I told Clay, “I will not be doing them. Let’s go hire some more people.” What you learned through that process is the pendulum swing from, “I can’t fire to anyone till all these guys are out of here,” and then you just really wised up. Like you’re telling the program today and like Z was saying, “Hey, what is the proper way to do this?” Where I’m thinking of like Z says, “The business. What is best for the business?”

Clay: I have a hot and fresh one that just happened today.

Robert: Hot, hot and fresh.

Clay: This is how I’m dealing with it, seriously. Shurita tells me, she goes, “Hey, somebody lied to me today on their daily report,” and I go, “Okay, you sure?” She goes, “Yes, I verified all the facts.” It’s a consistent lying on their hours by about 25%. Falsifying their hours to get paid more.

Robert: Yes, that’s called stealing.

Clay: Yes and I said, “Here’s the deal. As soon as you find a replacement, fire them. Go ahead and write them up. Document it. Make sure we have it documented.” This person will be fired probably the day after Christmas. The only reason is because the new person can’t start until after then. It’s already done.

Robert: Yes, it’s already done and you’re doing what’s best for the business. That should be the filter that every business decision that you make goes through. When you’re dealing with employees and they really upset you, it’s so easy to want to go, “I want to just choke them out right now. I want to boot them out the office right now.” They’re, you know [groan].

Clay: I’m looking through the handbook. Doesn’t say we can choke people out. Is that in the handbook?

Robert: [laughs] No. We’re not advocating that at all. What we’re advocating is being smart about replacing them because that’s what you’re going to end up doing. Unless you want to jump in and do the work yourself, unless you want to get in there and do it yourself.

Clay: I’ve done that.

Vanessa: I’m done DJing.

Robert: Yes. Like Vanessa said, “I don’t want to DJ anymore,” so unless you want to get in there do it yourself, entrepreneur, listening, be wise about the replacing of them.

Clay: Now when we come back, we’re going to get into the very specific detail of how to give detailed instructions on how to give constructive criticism. How to give that correction when someone just didn’t know what to do. How to give that constructive criticism? Thrive Time Show. [music]

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Narrator: Live. Local. Now. You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: What is going, thrive nation. We’re having a great time here in the box that rocks the thrive15.com world headquarters. For those of you on Facebook Live right now, you’ll notice we’re having a good time. For those of you who are in the room which is just myself, Dr. Zoellner and my wife Miss Vanessa Clark, you’ll notice that are our producers here. One of them is a very strong man.

Vanessa: Yes.

Clay: He’s a modern day viking. Mr. Sam was just breaking it down like fractions. He has me laughing, Z.

Robert: I know. He’s like a lumberjack, just swinging his axe and loving his deal. You called this the box of rocks but I kind of like to refer to it as aquarium because for those of you that are not watching on Facebook Live, we’ve got glass in all of this one side so they can actually look out and see this beautiful thing. This dojo of mojo and it’s the Thrive headquarters.

Clay: It is and it’s fun. We had a team come in last weekend from Boca Raton, Florida. We have another guy talked to today. They’re coming in from Boston. Just neat thrivers all over the world are coming here for the in person two day. It’s two days. It’s 15 hours, two days of very practical workshops where we teach customer service, search engine optimization, sales training, how to raise capital, management, leadership. Anything you’ve ever wanted to know to start or grow a business. By the way, Z, there’s no upsells. There’s nothing in the back of the room. No one’s pushing some high pressure, “If you buy this for a limited time, we’ll throw in a free blender.”

Robert: Wait a second, we do have the hot coal machine right? Where they can walk across hot coals.

Clay: Yes, we do.

Robert: We do have that, right?

Clay: You can walk on hot coals. That’s something we can make available for you. [laughs]

Vanessa: Who was that company who they were just in for the last workshop? The sea salt.

Clay: It was Florida Salt Scrubs.

Vanessa: Yes.

Clay: That was unbelievable. Florida Salt Scrubs, big shout out to you. Now, thrivers, we’re talking today about how to deal with employee confrontation. What I want to do is, I’m going to get in to the the four ways you should do it. This is how to deliver artful critique and then Z, I want you to react because you got to know, there are three ways that the employees can react.

Robert: Okay, all right.

Clay: One is there’s the immediate argue guy. He argues.

Robert: Oh no, no, no. That’s not a thing. Nobody does that.

Clay: One is the fight guy.

Robert: Yes.

Clay: Second one is somebody who actually is coachable. That’s bizarre. The third is the person who’s passive aggressive. Now I just want to see how you would handle these three, okay?

Robert: All right, I get it.

Clay: Here are the steps. Here’s how you should do it as the employer. One, you got to be specific, okay? Step one, be specific. Two, offer a solution.

Robert: Okay.

Clay: Three, do it face to face. Four, show empathy. I’m going to pretend that I work in your optometry clinic and my job is to manage some of the people. What do you call the people that help fit the people with the glasses?

Robert: Opticians.

Clay: My job is, I’m going to correct an optician who I caught doing something not correctly, so I walk up to you, “Hey Robert, how are you sir?”

Robert: Okay, we’re role-playing.

Clay: We’re role-playing. Robert, how are you?

Robert: Oh man, I’m awesome, bro. What’s up?

Clay: Hey, real quick. I just want to give you a couple, a real quick notes of feedback.

Robert: Okay, man. Something wrong?

Clay: No.

Robert: What’s up? Why you [unintelligible 01:09:48] on me? I mean.

Clay: Well, first thing I want to tell you is that your sales numbers are looking good for the month so far.

Robert: Oh, thanks bro. I’m really working hard. I appreciate that.

Clay: No, I’m serious. It’s good. I just had a couple of critiques because I want to help you take it to the next level. One is that I noticed with that patient that you didn’t go over all of the different options we have. You didn’t talk about the UV protection or you didn’t talk about the scratch resisting.

Robert: Bro, bro, bro, bro I don’t know what you’re talking about. I went over everything with them, I did exactly what I was supposed to do. I don’t know — you said my numbers are awesome, why are you — why are you busting my chops right now? I went over everything with him. Were you right there, were you listening?

Clak: I was, I was. And I was watching and so I just wanted to give you that specific feedback.

Robert: I think you’re picking on me because I do exactly what I was trained to do and I do what everybody else is doing and I don’t appreciate your attitude.

Clay: Well I wanted to tell you specifically that in order for you to get a raise I need you to seek criticism and not praise, that’s just something you’re going to need to do is kind of ask yourself, “How can I get better?”

Robert: Yes but if I’m doing things right why would I get criticism?

Narrator: You’re listening to the Thrive Time show on talk radio 1170

Clay: We in our office we have this phrase that I was taught and I want to teach it to you as well. It’s, “What would Z do?” and the phrase is what would Z do, what would doctor Zoellner do? And doctor Zoellner always listens to customer feedback and he always wants to get better and so you want to listen to feedback from me because we want to help you get better. And I’m just telling you face to face because I want to be a man about it, I want to be direct.

I want you to know I know it’s frustrating getting feedback that’s not positive, but I know you can do better and I know you are doing a very good job already so I appreciate your feedback, I appreciate you listening to me and let’s see if we can take those numbers to the next level.

Robert: Okay now if I was a passive aggressive dude, okay if I was a coachable one I’d say, “man, thanks for that, thanks for the tip, yes, I’m going to do better on that, help coach me and let’s role play a scenario and what did I miss and oh, yes, I tried and I’d be coachable and I’d be like, hey, I’m going to try to do better, okay?” Now the passive aggressive dude, he’d just sit there and nod at you and role his eyes and be — and then he’d be the one that would just — and he would spin away from you and walk away with an attitude of negativity.

Clay: How do you deal with it, Z, in your office? How do you deal with — if you see someone who is passive aggressive or you see someone who likes to fight, how do you deal with it?

Robert: Well if they like to fight, I mean eventually — Like I taught you way back when at Ruby Tuesday’s lunch. Yes it’s that. It’s not my job, I’m an optometrist/entrepreneur.

Clay: Okay.

Robert: Okay? So my thing is this. It’s that everybody can have a bad day every now and then, all right. And if Billy has too many bad days I’m going to put up with as many bad days from Billy as I can emotionally, physically, business-wise handle, okay?

Clay: The weather’s so crazy, I can’t get this, it’s so cold! I would be focused if it wasn’t so cold!

Robert: [laughs] that’s right. Tell you what, as an entrepreneur you’re not a life coach. I’m just going to remove you from that position, you’re not a life coach. And if Billy has a bad attitude and he’s a fighter, if Billy has a bad attitude and he’s super passive aggressive —

Clay: This place smells like bacon.

Robert: [laughs] tell you what, you’re not — people change seldom.

Clay: What do you mean by that?

Robert: And that is — Billy’s a little fighter because of things in his past and his little hurts and bruises and his daddy did this and momma did that —

Clay: [yells] Quit stepping on my shoes.

Robert: [laughs] And the neighbor did whatever. It’s up to Billy whether Billy’s going to change or not, it’s not up to you —

Clay: [yells] It’s Bill, not Billy. It’s Bill.

Robert: [laughs] It’s not up to you coaching him up. And when we get back, we’re going to dive a little bit more into that because so many people think that if I just coach Billy a little bit better I could change Billy. Stay tuned.

[music]

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[music]

Narrator: You’re listening to the Thrive Time radio show on talk radio 1170.

Clay: All right, thrive nation, welcome back to your inspiration super station. My name is Clay Clark the former SBA entrepreneur of the year in your ear and I am here to help you start and grow a successful business because I am a business coach. Why do I do that? Because I’ve done it over and over and over and over and over, that’s five times, again. And I’m here with a guy who has built many successful companies in Tulsa. If you drive around Tulsa, I challenge you, get in your car, drive around Tulsa and you’re going to see that doctor Z, that Z, that doctor Zoellner sign all over town. You’ll even going to see that thing in Okmulgee. Doctor Z, what kind of business do you have in Okmulgee, my friend?

Robert: Half way between Tulsa and Okmulgee I have a thorougbread horse ranch called the Rocking Z Ranch and I think as I kid I really loved that movie Zorro. When he pulled out a sword it was — on the wall [slashing sounds] and left that Z, I was just like, that’s super cool.

Clay: How is it that you’re able to be successful as an optometrist and then as an auto auction owner and then as a sleep center guy and then as a guy getting involved with horses — is it because you have a vast knowledge of each industry or that you were formally trained in each one or how is it possible?

Robert: I’m formally trained and I have a white lab coat with different names on it that I can change out — no, no, it’s because I’m an entrepreneur at heart, trapped in this optometrist body. Clay, you said something earlier and I’m going to challenge you on it. We really haven’t had a good fight this show, and I’m going to just throw it down and challenge you. You know why you’re doing this?

Clay: Why am I doing this?

Robert: Because you love business coaching, that’s truly your passion. You love helping people grow, start a successful business. When you came to me a couple of years ago and you said, “Hey listen, this is my passion, this is what I’m doing, I’m public speaking, I’m helping people and I’m helping people start and grow”, you take that little dream that’s burried inside and sometimes deeper than others, that little ember and blow out and create a fire of entrepreneuership in that person and you said, ”You know what, I’m just doing it one person at a time and I want to scale that” and that was the vision you had. I want to help, I want to see how many people around the world and maybe even another planet.

Clay: I had a 46 year old man today cry and give me a hug today about how well his business is doing, true story.

Robert: True story. And that, my friend, the love you have of that and the passion you have in your heart for doing that and seeing 46 year old cry and hug you is why you’re doing this.

Vanessa: And I’ll tell you Z, you hit the nail on the head because he was doing this for free. For free. And I said, you need to start charging for this because he was using — he doesn’t take lunch breaks but he was taking lunch breaks, staying after to help people start and grow businesses and when he started using this as a business model and charging they were more blessed because when you pay for something it seems like you apply — you’re paying for it, you better apply what you’re learning.

Clay: Now listen to this, thrivers. We’re talking today about how to deal with a confrontation with teammates the right way. Now Z, I’m going to review what I believe to be the hierarchy of success and you tell me if you disagree, okay?

Robert: All right, let’s do it.

Clay: When you start a business your number one thing at the very top of the goal, of the top of your hierarchy needs to be your profits and your individual happiness.

Robert: [whispers] Is that ethical?

Clay: If you start a business, the business needs to make you happy and make you money.

Robert: Yes. I would totally agree with that. There’s no fight yet.

Clay: We’re going down the hierarchy. After the profits and your happiness, then there’s the customers. You have to make sure that they’re happy.

Robert: Yes.

Clay: Work with me. Now again, that means the customers have to be happy. Underneath that is keeping your team happy.

Robert: Yes, and so many entrepreneurs get those flip flopped.

Clay: I see many entrepreneurs who try to make their employees happy, that’s their number one goal. And then they try to make their customers happy, and then if there’s any time left they want to make themselves happy. What ends up happening is they end up dealing with customers they don’t want to deal with, employees they don’t want to deal with at a job they don’t want to deal with and they aren’t even making any money. What’s the point?

Robert: Yes, exactly. And you see that over and over and over, and those are the ones that come to us in desperation. They’re saing, “help”, and that’s what this show’s about. This show is out there to help you take your career, your business, from just surviving, and that’s just surviving, to thriving. Because when you put things at the right perspective, when you put things in the right order, then guess what. It may seem mean but I’m putting myself in front of employees.

Clay: So Vanessa, you saw, we were gone, at the final speaking event, you were in Las Vegas there, and we’re in Las Vegas for this event for the Food and Drug Administration people. Did I not turn my phone off the entire time I was with you?

Vanessa: You did. The entire time.

Clay: And why would I do that?

Vanessa: You know, you have a very good job of — you’re like one of Z’s race horses. You’ve got the blinders on so whatever your task is, if you’re at work you’re fully at work and you’re concentrating on your task. If you’re home, you’re fully at home, your phone is off and it makes you irrate if it’s on or someone gets through, either way because you can’t fully be there in the moment, to do what you need to do.

Narrator: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Before I learned the time management systems that we now teach at our Thrive15.com in person workshops, how did I, before I could turn my phone off, how was life at home?

Robert: There was never any separation so this is going back to DJ land but you would get calls all through the night. I would get calls.

Clay: [laughs]

Robert: If for some reason, they couldn’t reach you, they’d come through me but I also was on call to go help with emergencies. There was no way to turn anything off and it made you stressed because there’s no ever relief.

Clay: So if you’re listening right now and you’re going, “Okay, I need to learn time management. I need to learn more about customers. I need to learn about employee confrontation. I need to learn about management. I need to learn about search engine optimization. Holy moly, I need to learn about sales. I need to learn how to raise capital. I need to learn how to fix my website. I want to get my logo. See, there’s so much I need to learn. This show’s only a couple of hours and there’s some commercials. Z, what do I do?”

Robert: [laughs] Wait a second. Christmas just came early because we have the answer.

Clay: You got three options you’re giving me right now. One is you could go to Thrive15.com, you can sign up right there for the world’s best business school. Seriously, if you’re spending $19 too much at Starbucks every month, you can set your own price. We have a scholarship. We’re ask you not to abuse it because every time that you pay full price $19 a month, we give a free subscription to a free to a member of the United States military.

Robert: Free. In the navy [sings].

Clay: This just in. Now the second deal is you could sign up for one-on-one coaching.

Robert: Which is really cool. You just showed me today, we have so many people doing this option, they were having to build out more little coaching centers here at the Thrive15 headquarters.

Clay: People go, “Why do you guys have a 20,000 square foot world headquarters?” Well, when you’re here during the day, it’s packed. There’s people here all the time.

Robert: It’s packed for business coaching one-on-one because some people are like, “You know, the Netflix of business coaching is cool. I can watch the videos but I want to touch it. I want to feel it. I want to be able to hug Clay”

Clay: We have a cable installation in this tower, where we’re coaching.

Robert: Okay, yes.

Clay: We have a guy who is selling salt scrubs. We have a guy who has a carpet cleaning franchise. I can go on and on over the different industries and you know what? If you can’t accept this concept, work with me here. The reason why Dr. Robert Zoellner is successful is, if you can’t accept the fact that the reason why he’s successful is not because he’s a skilled optometrist. It’s not because of his vast knowledge of horses. It’s not because he knows so much about auto auctions. It’s because he has a proven 13 point system that you use time and time again. You want to know the system? We have a one-on-one coaching program, Z, where we teach them the system.

Clay: Actually nostalgic but the value’s going up, the older they get.

Robert: Oh yes, there you go. The system’s the same. The moves are the same. It’s a beautiful thing. Whenever you take someone and whatever they’re doing, they have a service, they have a widget.

Clay: Yes.

Robert: They sell it and make a profit and then we’re going to teach you how to scale it and keep it under control and make money on it.

Clay: Now Z, also we have in person workshops which are awesome.

Robert: These are so cool.

Clay: We have people coming in from all over the world. They come in. We had a guy who came in this week. He goes, “I cannot believe that I learned that the dream 100 system. I learned search engine optimization. I fixed my entire sales funnel and it was in two days.”

Robert: He wasn’t just a beginner. His growth sales were over $5 million.

Clay: $5 million a year company and he brought his whole team here and he goes, “This was just a complete game changer for me.” Anyway thrivers , we have scholarship programs available. There’s no price limitation that’s going to keep you away from these solutions. Listen up right now. You have to take action in one of those three areas, either Thrive15.com.

Robert: Boom.

Clay: You go to the workshops.

Robert: Boom.

Clay: Or you schedule one-on-one coaching.

Robert: Boom.

Clay: Or option four, do nothing and pray for rain.

Robert: [laughs] Rain.

Clay: Seriously.

Robert: They’re taking the right first step. [music] We actually have four steps because the first step is to listen to the Thrive Time Show. Get us fired. Get pumped up because everyday, we’re going to release some nuggets.