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Topic: Correct Fasteners and headmarkings (Read 60752 times)

These are now back in the car but the door hinges to door and pillar had three different bolt suppliers. All three I have seen in other cars but it seemed so odd to have three different suppliers in one car but......

Marty, great research here. I have 4 bolts that are the bolts that attach the Fan to the Water Pump on a '67 standard LF7. The head is similar to #25 except it has 6 hash marks, they are also same as NoYenko's post (bottom pic) except these are smaller size. In the 67 AIM they are bolt #9425390, they are 5/16"-24 X 2 3/4" long

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1967 Camaro LOS 11AOriginal Engine Z - TributeMike C. NW - Illinois

IZRSSS

FWIW...Not sure what we've gotten ourselves into but let's see if you guys agree with this format? I honestly believe this is the only way accuracy for something as complicated as this can be maintained. I don't want to leave anything to chance. Think of it as trying to convince people like JohnZ, Kurt, Ed, Steve, JerryM, or any of the big kahunas that a particular fastener in a given location is correct... you are right, they are wrong and you have the ammo necessary to back it up. I think this is the level of attention that will be required. If you agree...then I think this is what we'll need;

1. A minimum of three (3) vehicles will be used to confirm each fastener (part#), as specified by the AIM for each model year (Note: In most cases each screw is used in more than one location. Only one fastener photo for each PN is required). Head-mark variations for each PN can referenced here; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9074.02. Plant where the car was built3. Year & Month of vehicle build4. Photograph of each fastener (PN) showing dimensions/size, washer type (serrated, captured, shoulder/fixed), thread & end type (pinched/treaded), & finish (zinc, phosphate, etc.5. No fasteners w/o the above documentation will be allowed to confirm a given PN/fastener6. Fasteners will not be accepted for evaluation unless they are submitted exactly like the photograph below 7. All fastener PN's will be listed at the beginning of the thread for reference & each year will have its own fastener PN thread8. If you cannot post photographs send them to; vsotero78@yahoo.com & I will post them for you9. I will assist w/the pics but someone else will have to keep track of all the fastener PN's per AIM's. My suggestion is one person for each year...

Please KIM...this will have to be a separate thread & cannot be included here. And, this is strictly preliminary and will not begin until everyone agrees...at least those who choose to participate. Again, please give your recommendations. And if there is an easier way I would certainly like to hear it...Thanks!

Chick & Steve - very similar to what you already suggested...

« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 05:12:08 PM by IZRSSS »

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IZRSSS

Marty, great research here. I have 4 bolts that are the bolts that attach the Fan to the Water Pump on a '67 standard LF7. The head is similar to #25 except it has 6 hash marks, they are also same as NoYenko's post (bottom pic) except these are smaller size. In the 67 AIM they are bolt #9425390, they are 5/16"-24 X 2 3/4" long

In a perfect world there would be old GM documents still around indicating fastener suppliers each year at each assembly plant. I think the first step is to ID the manufacturer head marking along with details of car it was on (model year, plant, Fisher build week, survivor or partial restore or fully restored, p/n, size and finish and notes like captured washers, how many required versus how many found on the car, etc). Not to say this is always the case, but I think there may be some newer fasteners/manufacturers that have been used on so many restorations that they are now assumed to be born-with correct. And even on a survivor a bolt could have been replaced along the years. Another obstacle is where do we find a definitive listing of fastener suppliers and all their head markings, especially from the late 1960s? Once that's done you could look at the identified manufacturer and see if they pass the logic test (existed in 1967-69, used that logo in that period, were they a GM supplier at that period, where their plants were located, etc). Would require contacting the manufacturers, and there will be gray areas such as suppliers no longer in business, suppliers that were acquired by another company since then, non responsive suppliers, or lack of old info, etc). This will weed out some manufacturers. Then add in the knowledge of 1960s GM suppliers from our experts who were there. You'll still have variances due to the "bin of mixed vendor bolts" they had on the assembly lines, but I think patterns will emerge as far as specific manufacturers used and their proximity to the assembly plants. For example, it seems like the ones we can already confirm were located in Ohio, Michigan, probably Illinois and maybe California. Unless it's a special fastener I doubt you will confirm use of a fastener made in Maine or Texas, probably not even Canada from that period, and I suspect we may be down to fewer manufacturer's than the number of logos we currently have.

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IZRSSS

John - I hope you don't mind me asking; Does GM have any docs that you are aware of that indicates which vendors contracted/supplied fasteners during the First Gen run? If the answer is yes, can you please give us some assistance in acquiring this information?

Russ - It is clear you have studdied this in great detail. Thanks for the insight with regards to the many obstacles we'll be faced with. It is far better to familiarize ourselves with each one now than after the fact. I am certain there will be others (obstacles) and now is the time to explore each one.

I certainly hope John can lend a hand. A Vendor list from GM would certainly be a step in the right direction.

John - I hope you don't mind me asking; Does GM have any docs that you are aware of that indicates which vendors contracted/supplied fasteners during the First Gen run? If the answer is yes, can you please give us some assistance in acquiring this information?

I'm not aware of anyone (or any group) at GM that would still have that information; that was primarily Purchasing info, and anyone who was there 45 years ago has long-since retired. Between that and the 20-some GM reorganizations since 1985, that kind of information has been lost to history.

IZRSSS

Mike - absolutely! I'm hoping that everyone who has contributed to this thread will do the same for the next phase of this study. Give us some time to ponder our options/format for the next thread. I think Russ has expressed some great ideas and I look forward to hearing more. If you have some ideas of your own, please don't hesitate to fill us in.

Please remember...the information collected for this new format will not be included in this thread. We will begin a whole new topic/thread for this purpose. I hope that makes sense...

IZRSSS

John - I hope you don't mind me asking; Does GM have any docs that you are aware of that indicates which vendors contracted/supplied fasteners during the First Gen run? If the answer is yes, can you please give us some assistance in acquiring this information?

I'm not aware of anyone (or any group) at GM that would still have that information; that was primarily Purchasing info, and anyone who was there 45 years ago has long-since retired. Between that and the 20-some GM reorganizations since 1985, that kind of information has been lost to history.

I was afraid of that...Thanks anyway!

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IZRSSS

John & Kurt - here is a list of headmarks that were mentioned earlier in this tread. With the help of several members we have managed to confirm a few which are highlighted in green; TR, UR, RBW, RSC, E, EL, F, AD, D, WB, L, LS, LE, C, M, Anchor & stylized F. Are there any others in the charts you can add to the green list? And, are there any you recognize that should not be green or listed as confirmed?