Comments

Comment by Akeldema

So this has the same name as the Blacksmith crafted BoE and has the same model as Murder.

Comment by Myf01

The model is most likely a placeholder.The name is..... um.... a weird choice.....

EDIT:This was originally called "Saronite Shiv", even though there already was a "Saronote Shiv"

Comment by rambaral

Regardless of current naming and model issues in this early stage of PTR, this is looking to be the new dagger to get for rogues.

Edit: Name and model are now updated, so far still the only dagger of interest in Uldaur at this point, looking like Blizzard is going to make itemization the pathway to help rogue issues.

Comment by ad00

Considering the item level, most likely a drop of heroic Yogg Saron... hence the Saronite name.

Comment by TheRabidDeer

Latest PTR has this item named the Golem-Shard Sticker. It drops from XT-002 Deconstructor on heroic non-hard mode.

Comment by Akeldema

With the normalization of instant/wound poison procs, this may be the best, however it may as well be in our best interest to get a Sinister Revenge. As Mutilate is 18% of our damage , instant poison will remain the same regardless of speed, so we want harder hitting mutilates. Glyph of Envenom makes it so Deadly never gets consumed, so fast speed to get that up after envenoms doesn't even matter anymore. Go for double Sinister Revenge.

Comment by rambaral

Downranked due to out-of-date information/speculation regarding the very short-lived glyph of Envenom. This dagger is better than SR in more than just speed, so recommending SR over it is erroneous. In any event, a spreadsheet will answer that question for you.

Comment by Zulaaa

Comment by Essenceofjlm

This ain't no ripoff Blinkstrike Zulaaa. Better then blinkstrike.

Comment by schleimhaut

Okay guys ... This WILL be *the* dagger (unless it gets an uprgrade) , i mean, look at the damn speed! Better dps than SR + 1.5 speed .. For muti rogue this will be the absolute best MH dagger so far. Sure, the IP proc wont be as much as if u have webbed death in MH, but this has more than +20 dps than webbed death and only +0,1 speed ... I just say ... GIEF

Comment by Voij

You're actually wrong, at least when it comes to MH-weapons.For Combat it's obvious that Slow/Fast will be better due to Combat Potency proccs, but for Mutilate you'll either use Slow/Slow or Slow/Fast, depending on how strong the daggers you'll get will be.

A slow MH has a higher "procchance" for instantpoison/woundpoison, but as you'll use Deadly Poison on the Offhand a faster weapon is a little better for the OH. (Though one could discuss that for a Mut-Rogue a slow Offhand would be better, in the end they'll probably end up about equal so you'd do best if you take this dagger in the OH and let's say SR or Perilous Bite in the MH, at least if there's not gonna be a 232 speed 1.8 dagger.)

Comment by asix

For people downrating my comment - go and check http://shadowpanther.net/daggers.htm - the best rogue spreadsheet. It shows this dagger on top of both main and off hand slots, followed by Webbed Death. Sinister Revenge, the highest ilvl dagger before Ulduar, which is 1.8 speed stands far from top - only 6th place, even with highest dps.

Edit: Grammaer. :)

Comment by demonazz

You're actually wrong, at least when it comes to MH-weapons.For Combat it's obvious that Slow/Fast will be better due to Combat Potency proccs, but for Mutilate you'll either use Slow/Slow or Slow/Fast, depending on how strong the daggers you'll get will be.

A slow MH has a higher "procchance" for instantpoison/woundpoison, but as you'll use Deadly Poison on the Offhand a faster weapon is a little better for the OH. (Though one could discuss that for a Mut-Rogue a slow Offhand would be better, in the end they'll probably end up about equal so you'd do best if you take this dagger in the OH and let's say SR or Perilous Bite in the MH, at least if there's not gonna be a 232 speed 1.8 dagger.)

The speed difference between 1.8 compared to 1.5 is quite a bit. Factor in a high crit chance (which if geared you should have at least > 40% full raid buff'd) and you are missing out on a lot of focused attacks proc'n.... I would have to side with asix on this one. Might be wrong though.

Comment by Notepad

Comment by sabrelime

With this and daschal's bite I wonder which will come on top in the end. I think blizzard shot themselves in the foot by changing poisons to PPM, but then releasing two similar dps daggers, but with different speeds. All I can see coming of this is constant arguing between Mut rogues for months to come. The other possibility though is that slow and fast are equal now. The FA procs would cover the lower damage of fast daggers, and the higher damage of 1.8 daggers would cover the less FA procs. It would then just be up to your playstyle choice.

Comment by psychowax

and if you're using Instant Poison as a Mutilate rogue you've gotta take a step back and rethink things a bit. asix is 100% right.

Actually, as a Mut rogue you should have IP on MH and DP on Offhand

Edit: Spelling

Comment by asix

We probably would argue, if only there were no spreadsheets. Hooray for the spreadsheets! Using http://shadowpanther.net/daggers.htm you can notice, that Daschal's Bite doesn't stand anywhere near the top, being lower than even a blue (but ofcourse, overpowered) Librarian's Paper Cutter. And this dagger is still on top, with as much as almost 200 MAEP (agility equivalent points) than Daschal's Bite. But when it comes to pvp, everything turns upside-down, cause you don't care about FA procs, and just need to have huge ass-whooping mutilates to drop on your foes, and that's where Daschal's Bite will truly shine.

Comment by Weber

As very old muti rogue I can just this one thing:http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=45448^^ This one dagger will be more tasty for main-hand in 3.1.Only two reasons:1) Instant poisons will be changed to PPM.2) Maximize dps from mutilates. Procs of energy without instant poison procs will have lower priority. So we need slow MH weapon with good DPS stat.Actually it is also interesting to try slow (!) weapon in OH in 3.1 just because of new MP rogue talent. But I think this weapon will be best OH for rogue in muti build.

Comment by Osterius

I don't think any of you realize the main attraction of having slow weapons for rogue skills such as mutilate. Instant attacks are based off of weapon damage. Fast weapons have a lower base damage, while slow weapons have a higher base damage.

Comment by chaolan

Comment by shyana

I can confirm the dagger drops from heroic ulduar: XT-002 Deconstructor, got it last night.

edit: I'll post some pictures of it

Comment by Chase

I can't believe people are actually debating whether this is BiS or not. Without a shadow of a doubt, this is absolutely the BiS Combat OH weapon currently known. It's very likely BiS OH or close to it for all other builds as well.

MH's another story. It's clearly not an option as a Combat MH. For Mut, it's probably the second MH behind SR - if not, it's at the least very competitive. I have to admit that my knowledge of HAT isn't very deep, but it's probably BiS MH or close to it for them too.

Basically, unless there's another top-tier dagger out there that hasn't yet been discovered, this is the must-have weapon for every single dagger-wielding raiding Rogue out there.

EDIT: And of course, the day after I post this a top-tier 1.4 Dagger is discovered.

Comment by Shortydude

Disregarding all above comments, this is a good mutilate offhand. Even with 3/3 Master Poisoner, a fast offhand is desirable for stacking up DP after an envenom.

Comment by Oberscht

The look reminds me of Blinkstrike.

Comment by irishdrunk

It won't be BiS combat if you are current BiS gear because the expertise is a wasted stat on the dagger. As we see more Ulduar gear, it may be though.

Picking it up to use later as you get more gear would be wise though =)

Comment by Riddel

While what you say is largely true, it's a bigger factor that slower weapons will proc more Instant/Wound poisons given the way WoW handles PPM enchants.

Your white attacks will generate the same number of procs regardless of weapon speed, but a slower weapon will result in more procs from yellow strikes.

Auto hits and specials have the same proc chance, regardless of haste.

I never said otherwise. I said that slower weapons will result in higher overall poison procs, because of the higher base chance to proc per hit.

Example: Wound Poison and a 1.4 mainhand vs. a 2.8 MH (for simplicity of math). The 1.4 will hit ~42 times in one minute, and on average 21 of those will proc poison. Additionally 50% of your specials will proc WP. With the 2.8, you swing ~21 times per minute, all of which will proc, and 100% of your yellow strikes will proc poison. Same number of white procs, twice as many yellow procs. Sorry if that's somehow unclear.

Comment by gobbledeg00k

Close quarters combat rogue only, seems to me. Mutilate uses slow daggers now - you're either specced into master poisoner or you've got the envenom glyph - and the expertise makes it a nono for hunters.

Comment by Nopoint

This is currently bis offhand for mutilate, in terms of daggers currently looted/known.

Comment by rambaral

BiS isn't BiS anymore. While Recluse is still ridiculously good, once you start putting T8 together you're going to start losing expertise. This dagger is still a better OH than WD without the expertise, and gemming around it can get you back to the cap while providing more DPS.

Comment by Samminator

Shares skin with Daschal's Bite,which honestly dissapointed me.

Comment by rambaral

For a dagger that is supposed to be the next upgrade after Webbed Death, and is just as good for both specs as WD was, it has a horrible drop rate considering who drops it. After 12 kills on XT our guild has not seen one.

Comment by helloparadise

In contradiction and proof of the rng, this baby has dropped in practically every kill of xt for my guild. every rogue that raids in my guild has one and numerous numbers of these have been d/e'd