Tuesday, April 12, 2011

Bad Apple

Twice in 4 months, tech company, Apple, has caved in to the demands of homosexual activists.

The demand for "tolerance" has turned to an "intolerant demand" toward anyone who has a different view.

Last November, Apple took action against the Manhattan Declaration app and removed it.

The Manhattan Declaration is a statement of conscience in defense of life, marriage and religious freedom---a manifesto of faith and freedom, signed by most of America's national Christian leaders.

The Declaration says regarding homosexuals, "We respect them as human beings, possessing profound, inherent and equal dignity." The Declaration also calls homosexual relations "sin" in accordance with biblical teaching and adds, "We, no less than they, are sinners who have fallen short of God's intention for our lives."

This defines my personal beliefs and those of Faith and Freedom.

Having none of it, Michael Jones, with Change.org, a homosexual activist site, accused the Manhattan Declaration of reducing homosexuals to "little more than deviant cretins."

In response, Apple removed the Manhattan Declaration app.

Recently Exodus International, a Christian ministry dedicated to helping people who desire to find freedom from homosexuality, had its app removed because it was "offensive to large groups of people," although Apple had originally given it a "4-plus" rating, meaning it contained no objectionable material.

Those attacking Exodus sarcastically referred to their app as the "gay app" and worse. Those comments and sentiments were advanced by the press.

What was lost in their trip to tolerance is that Exodus expresses Christian love and compassion in their ministry to those seeking deliverance from the homosexual lifestyle. They use the word "heal" rather than "cure" while emphasizing their hope for the following outcome: "A growing capacity to turn away from the temptations [and] a reconciling of one's identity with Jesus Christ."

So how "large" are these "groups of people" who are demanding that Apple drop the app?

Gary Gates, demographer-in-residence at the Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy at UCLA, has recently found there are not nearly as many as claimed.

Alfred Kinsey said in the 1940's that 10% of men were "predominantly homosexual."

That myth has been advanced by the press and homosexual activists seeking to increase their political clout.

Gates says pin pointing a solid number is an "elusive task" but using 5 different studies, he has concluded that there are 4 million adults who identify as being gay or lesbian, representing 1.7% of the over-18 US population.

1.7% ?

So 1.7 % are the "large numbers". Even if every homosexual in the country is an activist, and I doubt they are, is that the "large number" who are picking the Apple and forcing them to be intolerant toward those with whom the activists disagree?

Or is there something else in play?

Does Apple have a double standard?

While sanctimoniously rejecting the "offensive" apps from the Manhattan Declaration and Exodus, Apple continues to carry "GrindR," an app that facilitates homosexual hook-ups and more than half a dozen apps advertising "sex positions" and God only knows what else, that tens of millions of Christians find offensive..

Bad Apple.

The "tolerance" trip has made a left turn and has traveled beyond to "enforced tolerance" using intolerance to enforce it.

Peter Sprigg, with Family Research Council, has written an article on the matter titled, "Apple's Censorship: Rotten to the Core."

He notes that Apple's double standard is striking.

"Supporting the natural definition of marriage as the union of male and female (as 45 of 50 states do) is not 'hate,'" Sprigg says.

And supporting the personal freedom and autonomy of those who seek sexual orientation change "demonizes no one" he says.

He admonishes Apple, as a technology leader, to facilitate, not stifle public debate.

Whatever their motive, Apple is clearly not motivated by "large numbers" of people.

22 comments:

Gary, I have begun to suspect you write these just to get correcting responses.

The Manhattan Declaration asked people to violate the law by not treating some legally married couples as married - Apple policy does not allow apps that encourage illegal acts.

Further they don't allow racist or anti-religious apps of any kind - the Exodus app didn't just promote their way, they said others were wrong, many who are just as much Christian oriented as they claim to be.

Kinsey? he said that about 10% of men had had at least a 4 year episode in their life where they were predominantly homosexual, that included adolescent 'experimentation' and the like that modern studies don't include because so much of the time those experience are not based on eros but curiosity.

And Gates? 1.7% he said identified as gay or lesbian, another 1.8% identify as bisexual, 8.2% report having had same-sex sexual behavior, and 11% acknowledge having had same-sex sexual attraction. And this doesn't even consider all the people who are totally straight that accept that others are not and still have a right to equal treatment.

So only mentioning those who are only gay and lesbian is a bit incomplete, isn't it?

But wait you said "While sanctimoniously rejecting the "offensive" apps from the Manhattan Declaration and Exodus…"

These were not rejected because they were 'offensive' to someone - no one has a right to not be offended. These were rejected because they advocated illegal acts and denigrated others not of your faith. That seems to be something you can't seem to ever wrap your mind around - you can advocate the virtues of your religious positions without judging those outside your flock, others do it all the time.

These apps were rejected for the same reasons ones that described how to make meth or race supremacy ones are. There are many religious apps in the App store, I have one with the Bible, one with the Koran, quotes from Buddha and one that lists daily devotions. They could even get away with one that said anyone who didn't follow their twist on religion is going to go to some place of eternal torture and damnation. But when they start picking and choosing particular groups not based on religion to lambast, they've gone over the App store line.

Apps that do that aren't allowed by Apple's policy.

But then this is a tempest in a teapot anyway, isn't it? They could just as easily have an HTML5 web page that does exactly the same things and all the person has to do when they view it with the iPhone web browser is make a button to it which will from then on work just like an app. (many of the Apps at the App store are just HTML5 front ends to web pages).

False umbrage and outrage at the acts of pagans aren't really Christian virtues are they? Paul said the affairs of those outside the church are of no concern to Christians - how do you rationalize your obsession with same?

Exodus International was given a 4+ rating, which by Apple's own standards indicated no objectionable content. Obviously it was fine by their policy, so they had no reason to change it, except someone was offended that an organization dedicated to helping those who wanted to leave the homosexual lifestyle would have the audacity to exist and call homosexuality a sin, which the Bible clearly teaches, even on your app. So they pressured Apple to violate these organization's free speech rights, which last time I checked is unconstitutional.

You're correct on this one point, no one has the right to NOT be offended. If someone doesn't like the app, do what millions of people do when something they don't like comes on T.V., turn it off.

According to your interpretation, Christians shouldn't vote or be involved in civic life, but lead a monastic life. You seem to have some knowledge of the Bible, go read Matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came and said to them,' All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age'". Hardly a call to a monastic life, but a call to be lights in a dark world. This is precisely what these organizations are doing, making known the truth. May God bless them!

Craig, the Exodus app linked to many documents, Apple was unaware of the derogatory materials when it was reviewed.

As far as Matthew, that's about conversion - something an American can only ask another American to do, it can never be forced. And when the conversion fails, for whatever reason, then Paul's advice would seem to be the next step - leave the pagans to God.

And there are many many Christians who don't lead monastic lives but don't denigrate others who don't share their faith.

And as to the other anonymous's comment about Martin Luther King Jr, an app that extolled his views would be fine, one that tried to schedule a civil disobedience on the following Saturday would not.

These are the app store rules - if the Aryan nation can't get their's on then why should these?

"And as to the other anonymous comment about Martin Luther King Jr, an app that extolled his views would be fine, one that tried to schedule a civil disobedience on the following Saturday would not."

So your saying King could not have had an app when he was alive . His views included civil disobedience . Good enough . Gandhi also , OK . But you seem to think the Bible is permissible using your standard ? Throughout the Bible there is condemnation of all sorts of behaviors out side of the Faith it promotes . Foreigners were only allowed if they converted . People were killed , including children and women in order to rid a region of different faiths . God struck down those who chose not to follow Him . You appear to pick and choose when your offended by political and Bibical world views. This apparently is what Apple has done .

What you choose to be offended by . The derogatory and offensive views of homosexual advocates promote intolerance often. Those is Exodus of course see having sex outside of marriage as a sin . Hetrosexual or homosexual . Seems it becomes derogatory only to homosexual advocates when they are included .

Jesus speaks more about Hell then any other person in the Bible , and The Apostle Paul also speaks to the fact God's law over rides all man made law. If the state tells us we have to do abortions in a religious hospital or perform one if your a doctor , it is strange any company would see this as derogatory if you protested that peacefully with civil disobedience . The fact Exodus is offensive to you is obvious . It however is not to many people . There are many homosexuals who do not attempt to denigrate and censor religious beliefs just because they choose not to agree with them . The derogatory beliefs is obvious ,Apple and those who support censorship and bigotry.

You mean they voted for it before they voted against it? Where have we heard that liberal goobledygoop before?

You mean they didn't read it? Where is the evidence for that?

The Manhattan Declaration calls for no illegal acts and calls for no civil disobedience, although civll disobedience is a time honored right in this country. See demonstrations against slavery, for women's right to vote, for unions, and a host of other issues. It doesn't denigrate any person, only behavior. If all you are is what you do then I feel sorry for you. It clearly calls for respect of those caught in sin, as we are all sinners. It made that point also

As for Matthew, yes, it is about conversion. Which requires Christians to be active in a pagan world. If pagans disregard the message that doesn't mean we stop trying. You're right that salvation can't be forced, a love for God never can be.

Neither of these apps called for the forced conversion of anybody. The Exodus one offered help to those who wanted to change their life.

You mean they voted for it before they voted against it?Voting? Who's talking about voting? An app is reviewed by a single reviewer looking for gross errors or content. Many apps have been released and then removed because with examination by a larger population there were problems with it.

The Manhattan Declaration calls for no illegal acts and calls for no civil disobedience

This is the text in the summary that was in the app itself:

Therefore, let it be known that we will not comply with any edict that compels us or the institutions we lead to participate in or facilitate abortions, embryo-destructive research, assisted suicide, euthanasia, or any other act that violates the principle of the profound, inherent, and equal dignity of every member of the human family.

Further, let it be known that we will not bend to any rule forcing us to bless immoral sexual partnerships, treat them as marriages or the equivalent, or refrain from proclaiming the truth, as we know it, about morality, marriage, and the family.

OK, so now that you know what you claim isn't true do you wish to try again?

If pagans disregard the message that doesn't mean we stop trying.To convert them? Try as often as you are tolerated. But that isn't what either of these issues is about - if pagans refuse to convert then what they do is none of your concern as Paul clearly said in Corinthians.

The Exodus one offered help to those who wanted to change their life. By denigrating others - again, not allowed in the app store. And they could do everything that the app does with a web page accessible from an iPhone so they are out NOTHING other than the chance to play the victim once again.

And Mick,So your saying King could not have had an app when he was alive .Not one that called for breaking the law - apps aren't allowed to do that in the  app store.

You appear to pick and choose when your offended by political and Bibical world views.Mick I haven't said I was offended by anything. I do applaud  for being consistent in the application of their rules. Apps that encourage illegal activity and those that denigrate groups of law abiding citizens are not allowed in the App Store, period.

Too funny , but porn and organizations that demean women and use them as sexual objects can get apps . Only in America . Case in point Mick, Hugh Hefner was blowing smoke - Apple has said they will not approve a Playboy app. Maybe you should get your news from a less biased source, or at least one that bothers to vet what it reports?

Standing for Biblecal truth is not breaking the law, it is standing for God's law which is infinitely higher. Whether it is right to obey man or God, you be the judge. There is no call to violence and opposing what is wrong, whether legal or illegal, is protected speech under the 1st Amendment. By your's and Apple's thinking it would've been impermissible to oppose slavery, because it was legal in this country at one time.

This isn't what these issues are about...

It's precisely what their about, not caving to immorality in our culture and helping those who wish to change. If that chaps your hide, so sorry. Nothing these companies said is against the law.

If pagans refuse to convert then what they do is none of your concern......

Really? Then I shouldn't be concerned if a godless fascist comes to power in this country, or about gang warfare, rampant drug abuse, elder abuse, or some idiot breaking into my house? You can't be serious. Did you think that through? All these issues are moral issues and I am commanded by Scripture to speak to the need for obedience to God's laws. Even to the pagans, whether I am tolerated or not.

Love the Lord your God with all your strength,mind and soul and love thy neighbor as yourself.

By your's and Apple's thinking it would've been impermissible to oppose slavery, because it was legal in this country at one time.Since its pretty obvious you have no idea as to 'my' thinking that's pretty much impossible for you to judge.

Using your example:

Saying you think all are equal in rights and personhood - permissible.Calling for someone to not respect another's citizen's totally legal ownership of slave - impermissible in an app though you are free to do so on a web page.

See the difference?

Then I shouldn't be concerned if:

a godless fascist comes to power in this countryBy constitutional means? No not really since Christians are not 'of this world'. I mean who are you referring to, Lincoln?

I see the difference in what their trying to say, it still amounts to an unconstitutional infringement of freedom of speech.

By constitutional means? You bet, that's how Hitler came to power. You need to reread that passage about Christians "not being of this world", it means we are not to be polluted by the immorality of the world in our personal lives. We ARE to "be in the world" to oppose that same immorality at every turn.

Last time I checked homosexual "marriage" is still illegal in how many states? Is it 45? Regardless, it's still immoral and will continue to be so, as is gang warfare, child abuse, elder abuse, etc.

Just because some states have made it legal doesn't make it moral anymore than Nevada legalizing prostitution makes it moral.

Its not hard for me to think you honestly can't see the difference here.

He who trusts in his own mind is a fool; but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered. Proverbs 28:26

You think you won't have to answer for your sins, you are mistaken. Seek the Lord while there is yet time, tomorrow may be too late.

I see the difference in what their trying to say, it still amounts to an unconstitutional infringement of freedom of speech.No, private corporations are under no obligation to allow any speech. Your argument is the same one that the porn producers would use and in both cases they are mistaken - Apple doesn't have to allow anything they don't want to. They don't allow apps that encourage illegal activity, they don't allow apps that denigrate law abiding groups. Why is that so hard to understand?

Last time I checked homosexual "marriage" is still illegal in how many states? Is it 45?No, it is merely not legally recognized. You can go to a state that allows it and get married and have committed no crime in any state of the union.

Regardless, it's still immoralSorry there is absolutely nothing immoral about it. If you think otherwise then YOU should never be in one, but that doesn't make it immoral to anyone else. Recent polls show that that plurality of Americans support marriage equality.

Its not hard for me to think you honestly can't see the difference here. You have brought in a new concept never before mentioned, morality. Your morality is for you, not for anyone else. Apple's stance is completely moral - they don't allow apps that encourage illegal activities, they don't allow apps that denigrate and discriminate against groups of totally law abiding citizens. You don't like Apple's moral stance then don't buy their products, simple as that. I know many of my purchasing decisions are based on the morality displayed by various businesses, you are free to do the same.

You think you won't have to answer for your sins, you are mistaken. Craig, 'sin' is a violation of religious law, and since there is no religious law, I can't sin. QED There is no magic reset button on your life, this is the only one you will ever have.

You might differ in those opinions which is fine. But that is only YOUR opinion and by the First Amendment has nothing to do with me. You have a right to believe as you choose, I have a right to not believe as you do and still have equal access to all levels of this country's government.

Again, the Manhattan Doctrine takes a moral stand on the issue, there is nothing illegal about it. The Exodus organization denigrates no one, unless offering help to those who want to be free of homosexuality is somehow denigrating them.

Corporations get sued all the time for free speech issues.

I intend to exercise my right to boycott Apple's products and to voice my displeasure with their actions.

There are absolute morals by which a society stands or falls, morality is not relative. A new concept? Hardly, that's what we've been talking about from the beginning. I'm surprised you can't see that.

For your sake I hope you're right about your sin, but if not....... stay tuned.

Craig, pot smokers, meth makers, and white supremacists are all talking 'moral stands' in the way you are using the words too. It's really simple: Apps that ask people to break the law aren't allowed, apps that denigrate others are not allowed.

And corporations are not sued to allow expression of illegal acts or allow discriminatory talk against groups, not successfully anyway.

Hardly, that's what we've been talking about from the beginning. I'm surprised you can't see that.Yes but our American morals are based on equality, the unique value of the individual and our inherent obligations to treat each other each other. One reason why Jefferson so liked the philosophy of Jesus with it's simplistic elegance of having only 2 absolutes - Love God, and love others as God loves you. Accepting that some people are gay and their are still full members of society violates neither of these commandments as most Christians understand.

Read those commandments again, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself is the correct rendering of the quote.

Jesus said "I and my Father are one" and "when you have seen me you have seen the Father". Loving God means doing what he asks of you, no matter how difficult or against our desires. He says do this and don't do that, it's simple in theory but very hard in practice . Our American morals are based on the biblical principle that God knows what's best for us. All morals are religiously based. Our Founding Fathers knew this and made our laws accordingly. When we trifle with God's laws we invite tragedy, as individuals and as a nation.

God said " I set before you life and death, blessings and cursings, choose life, for why should you die?"

Craig, thank you for the corrected quote, as to the rest you are assuming the answer you want to reach. Morals are NOT necessarily religiously based, our nation was founded on Christian philosophy, not biblical fiats. Far too many of the founding fathers who were instrumental in the formation of our government were not even Christians by your usage of the term (Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, Madison, both Addams and more.) The Christian philosophy is how you relate with others, not a laundry lists of sins.

Jesus commanded people love God with all their feelings AND their understanding, and that's what with what we now know we understand that it is completely normal for adults to be attracted to a gender what gender they are is biologically irrelevant - they benefit the same.

Jesus was clear in his understanding that sexually mature adults can only do without such companionship as a gift from God, and not all are the recipients of this gift.

Sexual activity is no more innately immoral than eating shrimp or wearing cloth of two fibers.

Jesus made it clear that getting into heaven is far easier than the Devil would have you believe - I would be betting those that earnestly practice the two greatest commandments over those that emulate the Pharisee's with their cold sin counting accountant hearts any day.

Oshtur, Proverbs is clear about where understanding comes from:3:5-6, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and don't rely on your OWN understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight". Christianity is first and foremost about how you relate to God. Our founders knew that and acted accordingly in establishing our laws and form of government. What would be my usage of the word? They described themselves as Christians, except for Paine. I accept them at their word, only God can judge for sure.

Remember when the Pharisee's brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus and wanted to stone her? He said " Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" and they all left.

What did He say to the woman? "where are your accusers, does no one condemn you?", "no one Lord", she answered. He said, "neither do I condemn you, go and SIN NO MORE". Did Jesus not understand what sin was and why would He say NO MORE unless there were consequences to our actions?

You may accuse me of being a Pharisee, that is incorrect, I can't condemn you ,only God can do that, but like my Lord and Savior I must say, go and sin no more. It's the devil that says getting into heaven is easy, he is the deceiver after all. He knows he ain't going and he doesn't want you or me going either,so just do what you want he says, it'll be O.K.

Don't fall for it, man. " narrow is the gate and difficult the path that leads to eternal life: wide is the gate and easy is the path that leads to destruction".

Craig, it was Jesus that was reported to say love god with all your understanding, what the greek word being translated as 'mind' meant, so I guess proverbs doesn't mean what you think it means.

And he was also reported to say 'Knock and the door shall be opened, ask and it shall begin.' as well as pointing out 'my yoke is easy and my burden is light.'

Sound easy to you?Interesting you would use Matthew as an example since that comment was once again on how easy the 'narrow gate' is - obey the second law, and how many ways in our lives we are tempted not to. Once again we see that the 2 commandments are the core of the Christian philosophy and being gay doesn't prevent or make more difficult following them.

And if you are going to take the founding fathers at their word even though many didn't believe in miracles, an personal god or the rest (oh and Jefferson never called himself a Christian - he was the most famous Deist in american history) then I would guess you will take those that are gay and Christian at their's too.

Oshtur, Proverbs doesn't mean what I think it means, it means what it says. God gives understanding through His Word and Scripture is spiritually discerned, we need to acknowledge that and not think that our carnal mind can somehow reconcile us to God. The Bible is pretty clear that God accepts us on HIS terms, not our own. Jesus said "These things I have spoken to you , while I was still with you. But the Counselor , the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you". John 14:25-26

The Spirit is only given to those who repent( change their minds) and confess their sins, believe in the substitute death of Jesus Christ for those sins, are baptized into a new life in Christ and persevere in the Christian life.Acts 2:38. None of which is easy as the natural man is opposed to God. It's not supposed to be easy, if it was, everybody would be doing it. Nothing really worthwhile is ever easy.

You can't live an unrepentant life and have any claim to Christ. I didn't say that, He Himself said so. You must obey both laws

As for the founders, Jefferson said " I am a Christian, that is, a follower of the teachings of Jesus". John Adams " the principles upon which this country were founded are the general principles of Christianity.. I will avow that I then believed and still believe that those principles are as immutable as the attributes of God". His son Quincy believed the same thing. Many of the founders were actually ministers and yes there were some others who weren't quite sure. Except for Paine, there were no avowed atheists that I know of.

So no I can't accept your word, But know that I still love you and want you to spend an eternity with my Lord. He's knocking........

Craig, many who do have the Spirit and have repented say that being gay is no more a sin than eating shrimp or wearing two fiber cloth. You are confusing dogma with principles. Jesus told people to use their minds when loving God, that's why so many realize that sexual orientation is irrelevant to that love or obedience.

As to the the founding fathers Jefferson in his letter to Benjamin Rush:

"I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other."

So I am as much a Christian as Jefferson was, and the Adams were Unitarians who again see what is required for redemption to be far different that what you seem.

Again, if you are going to let 'God judge' as to who is a Christian in these instances, why is it you have any problem with gay Christians? Aren't the ideas that Jesus wasn't divine, or that one need not be a Christian to get into heaven far more variant than someone merely having sex with a gender you don't want them to?

This is always the frustrating part in these discussions - people give a 'pass' to beliefs that are far more heretical to Christian orthodoxy and then focus in on gay people. Why not those that have been divorced and remarry, or those that charge interest on loans? Jesus directly condemned these acts so they should be so be all Christian sects yet you don't see long blog entries or reply strings complaining that they are allowed.

A Lutheran minister friend of mine has been reading this thread and his observations are things about those that try to place obstacles between people and God would be better to have a millstone around their neck and cast somewhere or another, all metaphorical I'm sure. But again it illustrates that there are many other points of view that are also in keeping with a goal of 'Advancing Judeo-Christian values in our culture'.

Maybe it would be best to work hardest on the ones that most agree on?

Oshtur, you're confusing what people say with what God has said.If someone, even a pastor, a priest or an angel, says that a sin is no longer a sin and that disagrees with what God has said in His Word, we must follow God. Either his Word is absolute or it's irrelavant. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, He does not change.

We have a problem within the body of Christ, as Paul said in 2Tim 4 " In the presence of God and of Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage- with great patience ans careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not en sound doctrine For the time is coming when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

I will 'contend for the faith once delivered to the saints',I don't give a "pass" on anything, those other subjects haven't come up for discussion on this blog.

As for your friend, if He's the one scratching your itching ears, tell him to check that log in his own eye and then go read Romans 1:18ff