My friends hadn't done MC, so I got on my warlock and we queued up together. The queue took 45 minutes when we were all DPS, then two friends switched to tank/dps and we got in it 18 minutes, though seconds before it popped one of them gave up and left. Turns out it was lucky timing for him.

We zoned in to a fresh run. We pulled the two giants and that went okay, with some slight issues because I suspect the healers weren't awake yet. Shit happens. Half the raid promptly runs off to the side to try skipping trash. Against my better judgement I join them. They proceed to aggro a lava giant, annihilator, and two core hounds. And obviously wipe.

We come back and my friend, a tank, starts to single-pull trash. People yell that we should jump (because that went so well). Then, rather than waiting for the core hound to patrol back, or the surger to patrol back, we get a firelord. And then the next patrol grabs the other. And the other patrol. We wiped.

As we came back in we had about 3/4 of the raid and the core hound was near us. I ran up and grabbed it, before it could patrol away and right back into us again. One of the tanks suggested that someone - they did not specify who should do this - should engage in sexual relations with my mother in a particular fashion. I died; no one else did. Beside the pulls that I specifically directed my tank friend to make, this was the only pull that did not result in a wipe. People still yelled at me.

My friend continued on with the careful pulling until we reached a crossroads with two patrolling tanks and a bunch of trash ready to join in any bad pulls. The mother-fornication-suggesting tank proceeded to pull the two giants on the left, and then not pull back far enough. So we get the core hound from the bridge. And then the one from the right, which brings with the firelord and annihilator that we'd encountered while jumping to skip trash.

This was when I apologized to my friend for suggesting that we go. Then we left. This was the single worst experience I'd ever had in WoW, with a concentration of rudeness and poor play that I have never seen before.

I've run into rudeness and poor play. I've seen the degradation of PUGs over the years. But something about MC has taken this to another level. Does anyone have any theories?

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Anonymous
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I spent almost 4 hours there going through around 7 wipes before we even got to the room with the dogs. I shouted "OH GOD I forgot the dogs!" Realizing that getting these morons to AOE as a unit was going to be a nightmare. For some reason we took down all the packs with only one wipe-go figure. By the 3rd hour the group had solidified and people were taking it seriously with only another 5 wipes before the end from people not paying attention. I am an old school tank and have been OUTRAGED at the behavior in low level pugs by supposed veterans in heirlooms. I have told every group that they of all people should know better. I finally ragequit tanking pugs after every single DPS ran off to do their own thing then yelled at healer for not keeping them up!!! I told them heals are for tanks not dumb-ass dps who should NEVER pull or run ahead of the tank! If you take damage (other than unavoidable mechanic damage) as a dps then you dont know how to play. People have gotten sloppy and MC kicked their sloppy asses! All in all a nightmare I will never repeat. If not for the mount I would have quit before the first hour was up.

MC can't be sleepwalked through unlike most PUGs or LFR -- actually has some trash mechanics (and the trash (especially aggroing extra packs) is worse than the bosses). This is why people claiming there should be an LFR tool for normal raids or above are completely out of their mind. MC shows very well how something still trivial manages to be completely screwed up by tons of idiots.

I think balkoth has the jest of it. Even though blizz nerfed some aggro ranges, etc MC is still a raid set in a time where tanks had macros like "move up to, NOT past me" raidwarnings. If you pull 2-3 groups in hcs or normal raids, maybe even in LFR, your group will likely wipe (barring overgear or good healers). Difference with MC is that this is a likely scenario. Now a days you almost often have to do it deliberately if you are to pull 3 groups. In MC all you need is impatience.... And thats not a rare trade in wow players :-)

In a very, very confusing contrast, I just finished an MC run that I would not describe as "tolerable", but would actually apply the exclusive label of "good".

We started out with me saying hello and telling people to listen to the tanks. We then proceeded to slowly but steadily pull trash. A few went slightly wrong, but DPS were on the ball with handling lava spawns. We wiped once, near Golemagg. That's approximately 1% as many wipes per minute.

Except for one druid tank, people were patient and did not race ahead. As for the druid, a priest took on the job of lifegripping him back before he could cause too much trouble. No one talked trash, except for a brief bit about decursing, and even that was based on an actual problem.

All I can guess is that by starting off with a bit of polite hello and some direction, we were able to get rolling and I think slow and steady is tolerable if people see that it is working.

I have to admit, I was pretty amused too by your story, Klep. This is one of the reasons I don't play WoW any more: the average player doesn't even recognize the value of good organization, coordination and teamwork. I'd be amused to hear if Blizzard released a similar version of BWL, or an old school version of vanilla Strath, Scholo, or UBRS back when they were so hard that you needed 10-15 people to clear them.

"All I can guess is that by starting off with a bit of polite hello and some direction, we were able to get rolling and I think slow and steady is tolerable if people see that it is working."

Pretty much. The problem is that it's usually a blind mob. This is why even a led team of not very good players can do normal Highmaul while an unled team of similar players are going to just have nightmares trying Highmaul.

But you have no way to guarantee some degree of direction in LFR, all it takes is a few jerks to run ahead and pull everything and it's beyond the ability of the group to cope with.

"I'd be amused to hear if Blizzard released a similar version of BWL, or an old school version of vanilla Strath, Scholo, or UBRS back when they were so hard that you needed 10-15 people to clear them."

You didn't need 10-15 people to clear them, it was just faster and the XP/quests were irrelevant, so why not raid? No daily lockouts so could just keep repeating.

I mean, if you played back in Vanilla then surely you remember the 45 minute Baron run, no? Had to be done with 5 players, and they didn't nerf mob HP or damage or size of pulls when they capped it at 5 versus 10.

P.S. why do you care about the average player? The average player in almost every game is terrible. Just find a raiding guild and do heroic or, if you're actually good enough, do mythic. Plenty of organization, coordination, and teamwork there.