The Drama You Crave: Crucible Tool

Over at Lost Art Press, Chris Schwarz has posted several blog entries in the past week about Crucible Tool ­– the company he, John Hoffman and I are launching next month. As one of them was a total ego-inflator of puff piece about me, I’m currently feeling quite confident that the world needs to hear my perspective – and so here we go.

For the last few years, I’ve grappled with how to branch out from Daed Toolworks. I love planemaking, and I don’t imagine ever stopping it, but I also know I’m never at my best unless at least part of my time is devoted to pushing boundaries and learning new things.

So when I started bouncing my half-baked ideas off Chris while helping out at a class he was teaching last fall, I wasn’t thinking (at first) about involving him or John at all – honestly I’d have bet my shop that neither of them would ever work for any company but LAP. But it became very clear, very quickly, that what wanted looked a lot like LAP in structure. And it also became clear that Chris, and then John, were as enthusiastic about the idea as I was.

And so it just fell into place. Chris and John had designed a business model that worked, and more importantly that let them sleep well at night and love what they do. John had spent the last decade hashing out and running a genius back-end at LAP – systems for taking and fulfilling orders, bookkeeping, storage, shipping — all the things that (if they work well) you never notice as a customer. Chris has spent 20 years studying, writing about and teaching woodworking, and is constantly trying new (old) tools, processes and ideas in his own shop, with students, and in his writing. On top of that, he’s one of the best – and most prolific – communicators I know.

Most importantly, though, we all get along well, have the same ethics and focus, and the same ideas about what we want to accomplish. And that’s not a small thing. The number of people who I could get along with (and who don’t want to toss me off a cliff in a couple hours) in a business partnership, who also have the right skills, AND who share my very strong – but perhaps idiosyncratic – sense of ethics… that’s a minuscule number of people. One hand, at best.

There was just one real correction to our plan. It was a doozy, but I think it’s for the better in every way.

Initially, we intended to outsource all the manufacturing to small businesses we liked working with.

Rude awakening. Getting some things made proved really, really difficult. The tool I’m working on right now was earth-shatteringly difficult to source. I requested quotes from almost two dozen shops, and most just said no without bothering to quote. The half dozen quotes we did get were ludicrous. In fact, the best bid was (literally) 10 times higher than our target price.

Which brings me to The Lab.

If you’re trying to get something made, and every shop is pricing it way out of your range, you’ve got a serious problem. 99 percent of the time, it’s a message that you’re out to lunch.

We decided this was the other 1 percent.

The long and short of it is that manufacturing and job shops have changed in the last 10 years. When the economy crashed in 2008, many machine shops shut down. These high-overhead operations, so a long down cycle kills them in droves. There is an argument that this culling is good – that it’s survival of the fittest. And there’s some truth to that.

But I think in this case there were major downsides as well. Specifically, the businesses that did survive and thrive through the downturn were mostly those totally focused on efficient, lean production.

That sounds good, right? Efficiency, productivity, lean – we all know those are good things, because innovation,, entrepreneurs, global economy, and METRICS!

But the thing is that the prototyping and small-run shops, the ones that specialized in being able to make anything any time – most of them didn’t survive. The generalist shops just couldn’t compete with the ultra-specialists.

So if you are looking to make something that doesn’t fit in the typical machine setups, and isn’t a simple variation on a commonly-made widget, it’s just a risky and disruptive situation for a streamlined shop.

This isn’t because the shops left standing aren’t capable; there are still just as many brilliant machinists out there as ever. If you’re large enough to offer a constant stream of income, a shop will set up a production line to accommodate you. But if you’re running at a smaller scale, it’s not worth the time and risk unless you can be shoehorned in between larger jobs without disrupting the regular jobs. And a full change in setup on a machine takes too much time to bid, plan, and setup without risking problems with your bread and butter jobs.

So many shops don’t want to even quote those jobs – and the ones that do (if they’re smart) have to price it through the roof to offset those risks. They don’t really want the job, but if you’re desperate or stupid enough to take their quote, they’re more than happy to take your money.

Is there another way? We think so. Between the three of us, we have decades of experience in using and designing tools – their construction, the critical details that separate great from useless. And we can explain them, sell them, deliver them in an organized fashion and get people using them in short order. It’s a nearly perfect microcosm of vertical integration. There was just one thing missing. None of us had experience manufacturing tools at scale.

So we decided to take it on. We spent a small fortune on a toolroom mill that is also capable of small-scale production work. We tooled it up to my dream specifications, moved it into the Lab, and I started cracking a lot of books and learning G-code, CAD/CAM, fixturing, coolant options, control electronics and a quick delve into Arduino.

And after four months of 100-hour weeks, I feel completely justified in our decision.

Are we out of our minds and full of hubris for even thinking we can do this, when all those shops suggested we were off base? Maybe. Maybe not. What I can offer as a defense is that I am not a risk-taker in my professional life. And I would never have taken this on if I didn’t think we had the right ideas – and more importantly, the right three people to make it work.

And if we’re lucky, in a couple of years we’ll find someone we’re comfortable handing the production off to. With the programming, fixturing, and time-to-run all worked out and proven, it’s completely different job from a risk and hassle standpoint.

But if no one wants the job even then, we just move on to plan B, which involves a lot of concrete, new power lines and generating our own AI for the robot workers. Hell, I’ve never done that before…

You lost me at “Robot Workers”!!!!! How about you try “Hire Skilled American Workers at Union Scale wages That Support Families and Communities!!!” Hell, you boys might even learn something from these guys (And Gals) Humility, if nothing else. Schwarz and his booze fueled sniveling pseudo-anarchist crap needs a good dose. AND yes, I know it would cost more, but I would be quite willing to pay the cost premium knowing I was getting something made by a skilled American worker. (And, preferably a veteran, too)

A) Thanks for the friendly comment. You’re exactly the sort of careful, considered commenter that makes the internet such a sunbeam of joy in my otherwise dreary life.

B) We’ve heard your requests, and have gone into overtime to make sure we meet all your demands.
1. The robots were a joke.
2. Every single employee, staff member, and non-robotic member of our workforce and management team is, indeed, a Skilled American Worker. As for the Union Scale wages — well, while I feel I made a strong case for it, I have yet to convince myself to pay myself that sort of wage. Honestly, I suspect that I’m actually just trying to string myself along until the company has made – you know, a little money.
3. If you’re hiring at union scale wages, I’d be happy to submit a resume – I assume since I’m a service-connected disabled vet I’ll have a fair shot?

C) Since we’re trading life advice, here’s a quick internet tip: the word ‘sniveling’ is sooooooo much more effective when it’s NOT in the midst of a complaint about someone else’s micro-business practices. Bonus points for actually knowing something about those practices.

Edit to add: while all of the outside shops we’ve outsourced work to are also employers of skilled American workers, in the interest of full disclosure I DO have to admit that we hired a Canadian to do our logo for us. We did exploit him mercilessly, though, if that’s a consolation.

That was epic. Thank you for that. And thank you for your service. I wish you and every entrepreneur great success. You’ve all proven that you can build an ethical business that creates wins all around for all stakeholders and I’ve no doubt that even the ultimate in failure or likely success of this business, you will succeed in providing those things for your customers no matter what. Count me in as a patron.

Raney,
Congratulations on the huge step forward! I am really looking forward to what you guys will be offering. I have always been scared of CNC, just because of the amount of time and skill it takes to program, but wow, what a way to produce, if only in small runs. Plus, once the programming is done ,it is relatively easy to transfer to someone else for the bigger runs if necessary. I wish you guys all the best!
Jon

I don’t mind technology, including CNC – but what I do object to is the way that CNC encourages taking the path of least resistance in design. So (and I think I’m almost a broken record on this point) – really, most of the time I think manufacturing is designing for the machines much more than for people.

All that is why we get things so cheaply – but it’s also why so much of the crap we buy just so perfectly fails to actually work well, or last more than a year.

We think we can use the CNC as a process to make what we want, but without making concessions to the machine’s preferences for simple, straight, flat, and (shudder) aluminum.

People laugh when I say it, but to me the CNC is just another roughing tool. A really precise and incredibly repeatable one, but still an idiot savant of a worker.

Couldn’t agree more. I used to teach figure sculpture and I would often tell my students that “you could train a chimpanzee to do this,” or, more to the point, you could program a machine to do copy a figure. It is what you do with what you see that makes the end product so uniquely human. Hope I didn’t mangel that thought too badly…

Congrats on the new toy in the shop how many axis and tools will that puppy hold. It is like science fiction compared to when my Grandfather was a tool and die maker. He worked at the Auto-lite factory in Toledo when the big strike happened way back when. He never was enamored with the Union but did go on the teach the apprenticeship course after retirement in the 1960’s.He did get to see a few of the first DRO and tape program mills and he thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Best of luck with the new deal it sounds like a great adventure.

The machine is a Haas toolroom mill. It’s got the same software and basic functionality as a larger production machining center, but its lower powered (7.5HP vs 30) and lighter (about 3 tons instead of 7-10). It’s also got a larger table than a typical VMC. So the long and short is that it’s very flexible, but not as fast as a production mill. They’re made specifically for tool rooms, prototyping, and smaller-scale production runs where flexibility is a little more important than speed.

So a 3-axis VMC, with the possibility of adding 4th or 5th axis later.

I like the CNC aspect, but to me the computer control is just a really flexible system of jigging. It’s an amazing bit of power for making multiples, and doing very precise repeating curves, etc – but in all honesty the thing I like best about it is that it’s MUCH more precise, rigid, and powerful than my poor revered little Clausing knee mill.

I should also note, though, that no way in hell I’d get rid of my manual mill as well. I’d never want to have only a CNC machine.

Ramey, all said like a true people person. I’m excited for you in this new venture. Also really excited to see what your imagination can conjure. It’s a real pleasure to witness somebody at a labor of true love and through the Internet I feel like I’ll have a pretty good seat to watch it from. I have great expectations (and have serious envy of your CNC).

First of all, congratulations. What an awesome (ad)venture. The massive injection of stimuli and adrenaline alone has to make it all worth it. Doing new stuff, growing, learning–that is its own reward.

Second, I absolutely concur about the difficulty of outsourcing stuff. I once got a price quote for a tapered, slotted blade from a local shop that is very highly regarded. $200 for the first blade and $100 for every blade after. And I’m pretty sure they don’t even pay union wages. Anyone who says “just go find a good shop” clearly hasn’t actually tried to do this.

For the toolmaker who needs to outsource some things, there are really only two solutions: either find someone who is already making almost the same the same thing you want (so they don’t have to do much tooling up), or find a guy who has a garage machine shop, probably someone who also works full time and runs his garage shop nights and weekends. I’ve used both of these solutions, but the first is not an option if you’re trying to make something that doesn’t currently exist, and the second is only an option if your quantities are tiny.

All of which is to say: you made the right choice. This way, you’ll have maximum flexibility and some control over costs. And I think it’s pretty low risk. You guys already have sterling reputations and a huge potential customer base. And the demand for what you guys will be making is sure to be high. It’s a no-brainer. (but I bet it still took a ton of resolve to pull the trigger on that VMC).

Oh man, tapered blades give me a colon spasm just to think about. taper, then harden (ohhh, the warping) or harden, then taper (days and days at the grinder, with the hot sun and no water…) or forge weld a laid steel blank to a tapered low carbon base? Hard mill? Molded CPM? just make it out of Delrin and play dumb?

Good luck to you and Chris and John, but one question: are Crucible tools, like yours, going to be priced only for those with very deep pockets? I would love to own one of your planes, and undoubtedly they are worth the money, but they aren’t for the regular woodworker who is trying to justify buying the Lie-Nielsen instead of the Wood River or the Festool router over the Porter-Cable..

So, is the plan for Crucible to produce tools which are priced at a level which is available to the woodworker who wants quality tools but also has grandkids to help send through college? Or are they going to be priced for those rare woodworkers who have ultra-deep pockets and wives willing to let them buy $2,000 planes?

A huge part of the appeal for me is that I am more than aware how expensive my planes are, and that I couldn’t even buy my own stuff. I love making them, and am thrilled that there are people who can afford them and will pay what it takes me to make them.

But I’d also like to make tools that ‘most of us’ could afford as too. And that’s the point of crucible.

I think the basic approach is to do what it takes to make them right, without dumbing them down or cutting corners. But within that framework, to make them as affordable as we can.

So glad to hear this pricing strategy. I watched Bridge City Tool Works go from user-affordable tools to collector tools as they stopped manufacturing their own tools. It will be wonderful to have a new source of tools for users.

Congrats on finding a way to make it work. I feel your pain in having wanted some specialized things for my hobbies. I worked at a company that did contract work (different industry – making pharmaceuticals). What you said in many respects is correct. At times, we would get requests for quotes that were complex (at least to us and this was 4 folks who were highly skilled at what we did). Often we would either pass (very very few quotes turn into real work and if something is very time consuming and difficult to figure out punting is faster and easier) OR we would quote and say time and materials, which was not really a quote and involved risk on the customers end as they didn’t know the price (almost all customers passed on this as well). One way over the years that I have found that helps, if you approach a company and say “can you please make just one of these?” That sometimes helps. The company isn’t worried about mass production and by figuring out how to make the one then they have a better feel how difficult it is and how they can then improve things to make them in larger scale. I look forward to hearing what the tool will be.

Thanks Joe. Yeah – I don’t fault the shops in the slightest. It’s a tough thing to make a living manufacturing nowadays.

I’ve used the make one (or five) approach too – and yeah, I think it’s a great way for them to get a handle on the job, and also for the client to get a handle on what you can expect for results. In this particular case, though, the parts really need a dedicated fixture to make even one or two correctly – no good way to hold for a second or third op with any precision.

However, I was wondering if you guys had received any feedback from Crucible Industries. They are a U.S.-based specialty steel manufacturer, who have been in business in Syracuse since 1876. They make all sorts of tool, high speed, stainless, and specialty steels. A great company with a long and storied history making steel in the U.S.A.

Crucible Industries is also one of the great polluters of Onondaga Lake, which, until recently, had been one of the most highly polluted lakes nationwide. I am far more comfortable knowing that you folks at Crucible Tools (should you be permitted to avoid copyright laws) will be a wee bit more conscientious environmentally. Go get ’em, Raney.

Hi Joe,
First – it’s really hard to see any ‘criticism’ in Ted’s comment – which I assume is what you are referring to. It was a question.

Second – unfortunately, i tend to be very slow to keep up with internet happenings (just look at my posting history) because I have other things I tend to prioritize over social media. It’s probably my weakest business practice, but I frankly don’t care enough to change it. So, Sorry if I was slow to give you the response you wanted – but I did respond to Ted’s friendly comment below.

Finally, saying that I like being trolled is just silly. I like it just about as much as I like telemarketers, or people knocking on my door trying to save my eternal soul. It’s part of the world, and I am generally nice until pushed. But push, and I’m totally comfortable pushing back.

I’m all for valid criticism, but have yet to see any here. What I saw was one poster snakily criticizing us for our practices, based on a total lack of knowing our practices – which are almost entirely in line with what he was asking for. I felt fine poking a little snark back.

And now, I see someone looking to enjoy a little schadenfreude over our downfall before we’ve even started.

So I have to wonder which of us actually had an agenda when they showed up to my blog…

Hi Raney,
Its great to hear about you new venture and I have no doubt you guys will make it work well. I love using your tools and look forward to seeing what is to come of all of this….once the $AU gets back to a reasonable point that is…lol

Good luck my friend, I have know doubt you’ll make it all happen.
Kevin

This is all very informative. I am probably restating the obvious, but without people like Raney, Chris, and John, we would be stuck with iterations of the same boring and/or crappy stuff.

Scale and efficiency are why so much of the market place is the way it is. The details differ, but all industries including software, autos, and pharmaceuticals suffer. It tends to be hard to innovate at large corps, but the large corps have the marketing and legal resources that many could only dream of. Add more random blather here…

On a different note, many companies like working with Proto Labs (almost in my back yard) for CNC or printed prototypes. However, as far as I know, they are the opposite of inexpensive. I think that the nature of CNC, printing, and CAD/CAM still have the issue of designing for machines.

Loud and roaring congratulations to all 3 of you! It is very cool that you stepped up to 3-axis CNC, but in my mind even more important that you found out that the 3 of you are that much in sync. That is a very rare gift, and solidifies ones – sometimes very lonely – beliefs in an astonishing way. Of course your planemaking is top shelf to begin with , but it is still something else to walk the path along with likeminded people, contrary to running solo. No doubt there will (still?) be moments of doubt and despair, but succeeding with this must be empowering like nothing else.

Arriving here from a LAP blog post; first time visiting your site. From this single post and its comments , I can tell I am going to enjoy catching up on your blog and having an expanded view into the Crucible. I like your “voice” and style, literally laughed out loud from some of your responses.

And if things don’t work out with, you can always sell tops on Kickstarter…

I’m going to try to document as much as I can – again, not really my forte as I tend to get wrapped up in the doing to the exclusion of the showing. But hopefully we’ll do better about it.

Also, part of the plan is to explain how to make the tools yourself, for those so inclined, when it seems fairly feasible. Obviously a cast holdfast isn’t really a candidate for that, but some things on the agenda are…

Great! another boutique tool maker! I hope you have something better than a $150 plane hammer or $300 bevel gauge. The only reason people buy this stuff is to post pictures on their instagram account, or for bragging rights on Sawmill Creek.

Barney – thanks for the sarcastic words. Honestly, though, I think you can do better.

For instance, most people don’t really buy expensive tools for bragging rights. It’s actually to compensate for their inadequate (ahem) manhood, or to prove to themselves that they’re not the loser their father predicted.

Raney,
You’re way off. I am endowed like a BGH-fulled Chianina bull and make my dad proud everyday (see previous statement).
Personally, I buy shiny tools to bring a glimmer of light into the dark void of my soul that can only be otherwise filled by lobbing half-assed facetious comments on blog posts…. and to blow up my instagram. #hunglikebull #fullassed #ipreferthepurplebarney

It was great to meet the three of you during the baby anarchists class – it will always be one of the best weeks of my life. I remember overhearing the three of you talking about starting a tool company; I’m glad it’s all falling into place.

I’m excited to see where this new business venture goes for the three of you. I bet it will explode with growth and you’ll sell every tool before they’re even made, similar to new books coming out of LAP. I will be one of those people that pre-orders one of everything you guys make, so you have one customer for sure. Keep up the good work!!

This is exciting. You founders of Crucible have a great story to tell already and there are three things here that I find exciting. First, I will continue to be able to learn woodworking from Lost Art Press. Second, I anticipate owning some new tools that will no doubt be as useful as the tools and techniques Chris has recommended in the past. And third, as you guys are all hyper literate and big sharers, we readers can learn something about building a small business too.

I am so excited for all of you on this new venture and for all of us that will get to partake in the offerings. I am always struck by the diversity of response to news like this, I wish you all the best. I think you are starting something that will make a difference in the history of tool making in America.

Raney, Chris, & John,
Although I feel confident you don’t need anyone to tell you this — do things your way and ignore the naysayers and unasked for advice. Including mine.
As an observation, I have a number of friends who are union — except in their own enterprises where they wouldn’t pay union scale for anything.
May the tools you produce be ones I must purchase.

Raney great to see all your work paying off. I can’t wait to see the product, I know with the attention to detail you have it will be first class.

On your earlier comment I can to agree more on the effect of CNC and tools making people think that is where you start. You are far more effective in my opinion if you learn how to do it by hand or at least the “old fashioned way” then move on. In my experience this gives better machinists, better engineers, better pattern makers etc.