Little idea I had, How about, when you click on a station, the game draws out (or 'colors in') the segments of track outwards that trains that call at the station also visit? Essentially rapidly giving you a graphical representation of all of the routes in and out of the station that trains follow, so you can quickly see if there is a nice extra link you can give the station down already existing tracks and station?

This is highly non-trivial, at least in the form that you're suggesting.I tend to use the cargodest link graph and viewport order lines for this sort of planning.

Ok, after several attampts (and days) to make it work - im just going to say for all gamers like me (just gamers, no programmers or stuff like that) - I HAVE FAILED !!! I cant make this version of TTD work for me so i can join the only one available server due to lack of GRFs. I have asked a guy, which related to the server im trying to join, to share the missing files with me so its my last hope.The story:I play OpenTTD.I saw some servers with a lot of GRFs. I clicked 'download all missing content' - and thats it! All is working fine, im in game!Than someone tells me about JGR version... and here i go! Clicked 'download all...' - and Nop! A list of GFRs cant be downloaded! Crap! I ve tryed the 'download from outer sources' button and downloaded 1 GRF (Marytime stuff) put it somewhere and i find that the game cant see it! So i tryed several other directories to put it in - failed! Ok, so i started to search for help here and there. But i failed. Tryed wtih other missing GRFs - its gone even crazyer - hard to find the proper GRFs, no exac info where to put them and for result - the GRFs still 'missing'-.- Author of this patch, i would like to ask you - could you make things easyer for such dumb guys as me? Because i cant see difference between this version or another.

See section 4.2 of the readme.txt you got along with OpenTTD. This applies to vanilla as well as patched versions like this one.

Is it good or bad that I remembered which section it is? I mean, the file name literally says "Read Me!"... yet countless players come to the forums asking about the files and directories used by OpenTTD...

See section 4.2 of the readme.txt you got along with OpenTTD. This applies to vanilla as well as patched versions like this one.

Is it good or bad that I remembered which section it is? I mean, the file name literally says "Read Me!"... yet countless players come to the forums asking about the files and directories used by OpenTTD...

According to your reply i should put grf's into C:\Users\Username\Documents\OpenTTD\newgrfSo i did... still doesnt work for me. game does not see marico.grf and tias.grf when im in Join server menu, so... its good that you have a good memory, but...

The issue of GRFs not being automatically downloadable for that server is a deliberate policy of the server's admin. I gather that this is to reduce griefing and drive-by vandalism.It's not something that I can do anything about as the author of this patch pack.

Hmm, okay... time to actually do some troubleshooting. So Windows it is...It appears the patchpack uses a directory separate from the vanilla one, perhaps to keep the settings from mixing. We'll have to find the right one; the one you put the GRFs into was the vanilla one then.

Is there a folder named OpenTTD-jgrpp or similar in C:\Users\Username\Documents\ ? If yes, the readme is outdated; use the newgrf folder inside that instead.If no, then I have a weird idea that should get you the appropriate folder: Launch the patchpack, go to the Load Savegame dialog, and look at the top of it, there should be a path ending in \save\. That should be near the openttd.cfg path you need - just remove that \save\ suffix and you should find the openttd.cfg, the newgrf\ folder, and everything else.

By the way, you restarted OpenTTD after putting the files into that newgrf folder, right? OpenTTD scans for NewGRFs at startup (and during certain interactions with the NewGRF configuration dialog, but it's harder to screw up a restart).

The issue of GRFs not being automatically downloadable for that server is a deliberate policy of the server's admin. I gather that this is to reduce griefing and drive-by vandalism.It's not something that I can do anything about as the author of this patch pack.

Ok, i made this game work, finally. So i guess i have no question to you. But there is no ready-to-go servers to play it =( If someone, who playing on [TIN01] server read it - please help me with GRF's needed to let me join!

Hmm, okay... time to actually do some troubleshooting. So Windows it is...It appears the patchpack uses a directory separate from the vanilla one, perhaps to keep the settings from mixing. We'll have to find the right one; the one you put the GRFs into was the vanilla one then.

Is there a folder named OpenTTD-jgrpp or similar in C:\Users\Username\Documents\ ? If yes, the readme is outdated; use the newgrf folder inside that instead.If no, then I have a weird idea that should get you the appropriate folder: Launch the patchpack, go to the Load Savegame dialog, and look at the top of it, there should be a path ending in \save\. That should be near the openttd.cfg path you need - just remove that \save\ suffix and you should find the openttd.cfg, the newgrf\ folder, and everything else.

By the way, you restarted OpenTTD after putting the files into that newgrf folder, right? OpenTTD scans for NewGRFs at startup (and during certain interactions with the NewGRF configuration dialog, but it's harder to screw up a restart).

Ok, i received some PMs with additional help on that problem, and i guess it will work fine sooner or later. So as ussual thank you guys who havent stand aside to my problem and done somethink helpfull (especially kamnet, 3298, Emperor Jake and ramazoon)

Hello all! So here i go again! No, no troubles this time, but some wishes to the author. So i have played the game for a while and i liked it. Bridges with signals, tunnels with signals (which, besides, can cross each other on same ground level), shared railways and stuff, city growth feature, industrial chains (or is it server's option?), programable signals, routefinding restriction feature for signals (which is more usefull compare to the programable signals as i can say by now) some minor things, some things i have not spotted yet and some i have not mentioned by now. So i would like you, dear JGR, to have a look at this quest:

I have train 1 and train 2, plus 3 stations. Train 1 loading at a station and unloading at MID station. Train 2 loading at MID station and unloading at 3rd station.Ultimate goal: Train 2 should behave like so: If train 1 arrived to MID station - go to MID station and load normally (until there is cargo to load) otherwise - wait.

Uses of such a system: When i have resource-dependent factroy i supply and taking finished goods from i whant trains to go shuttle principle. So when factory recieve raw mat. a train starts to grab finished goods until prodiction is going. So when it stops (no more resources) train will departure either its fully loaded or not.I hope i have written a poem with not my native language you can read easily - otherwise, please point me at a problem.

Hello all! So here i go again! No, no troubles this time, but some wishes to the author. So i have played the game for a while and i liked it. Bridges with signals, tunnels with signals (which, besides, can cross each other on same ground level), shared railways and stuff, city growth feature, industrial chains (or is it server's option?), programable signals, routefinding restriction feature for signals (which is more usefull compare to the programable signals as i can say by now) some minor things, some things i have not spotted yet and some i have not mentioned by now. So i would like you, dear JGR, to have a look at this quest:Situation01.PNG I have train 1 and train 2, plus 3 stations. Train 1 loading at a station and unloading at MID station. Train 2 loading at MID station and unloading at 3rd station.Ultimate goal: Train 2 should behave like so: If train 1 arrived to MID station - go to MID station and load normally (until there is cargo to load) otherwise - wait.Situation02.PNG Here how i would like to solve it. 1) program signal (programmed signal 1) like so:IF train not carrying iron ore THAN go green (pass it) ELSEIF programable signal 2 passing train carrying coal THAN go green ELSE stay red

Sure, to avoid jams railroad should be edited like so:Situation03.PNGSo it would be great if signals can influence and target each other

Uses of such a system: When i have resource-dependent factroy i supply and taking finished goods from i whant trains to go shuttle principle. So when factory recieve raw mat. a train starts to grab finished goods until prodiction is going. So when it stops (no more resources) train will departure either its fully loaded or not.I hope i have written a poem with not my native language you can read easily - otherwise, please point me at a problem.

Programmable signals are somewhat limited and can't query the state of trains.What you are suggesting can be achieved with the use of some of the more advanced routing restriction features (slots and wait at PBS signal), but it's somewhat non-trivial to use correctly. If you're a beginner I wouldn't recommend heading straight for the deep end with more complex setups like that. If you do want to try though, there's a setting to enable the advanced features.

I'd say go for it. That was the best time of my life with TTD, making some advanced solutions to problems like that. And that was before programmable signals even existed.

But that begs the question... Wouldn't it be possible to clone the route restrictions stuff over to the red state of signals? Or maybe allow route restrictions to also set red/green state of signals?In fact, even though i haven't spent much time thinking about the implications, wouldn't it be better to have programmable signals and route restrictions merged into one? And at the same time, give it the capability to set the max speed of the train passing?

Also, while i am at it, i would like to reiterate my request to have more noise options in the map generator like what was offered in ChiPP? I looked at adding the options myself but i can't be arsed to install the Windows SDK because i am on a very old OS partition with too little space for all the stuff the SDK forces you to keep on your OS partition. And resizing it is not an option at the moment either. So pwetty please?

Hello all! So here i go again! No, no troubles this time, but some wishes to the author. So i have played the game for a while and i liked it. Bridges with signals, tunnels with signals (which, besides, can cross each other on same ground level), shared railways and stuff, city growth feature, industrial chains (or is it server's option?), programable signals, routefinding restriction feature for signals (which is more usefull compare to the programable signals as i can say by now) some minor things, some things i have not spotted yet and some i have not mentioned by now. So i would like you, dear JGR, to have a look at this quest:Situation01.PNG I have train 1 and train 2, plus 3 stations. Train 1 loading at a station and unloading at MID station. Train 2 loading at MID station and unloading at 3rd station.Ultimate goal: Train 2 should behave like so: If train 1 arrived to MID station - go to MID station and load normally (until there is cargo to load) otherwise - wait.Situation02.PNG Here how i would like to solve it. 1) program signal (programmed signal 1) like so:IF train not carrying iron ore THAN go green (pass it) ELSEIF programable signal 2 passing train carrying coal THAN go green ELSE stay red

Sure, to avoid jams railroad should be edited like so:Situation03.PNGSo it would be great if signals can influence and target each other

Uses of such a system: When i have resource-dependent factroy i supply and taking finished goods from i whant trains to go shuttle principle. So when factory recieve raw mat. a train starts to grab finished goods until prodiction is going. So when it stops (no more resources) train will departure either its fully loaded or not.I hope i have written a poem with not my native language you can read easily - otherwise, please point me at a problem.

Programmable signals are somewhat limited and can't query the state of trains.What you are suggesting can be achieved with the use of some of the more advanced routing restriction features (slots and wait at PBS signal), but it's somewhat non-trivial to use correctly. If you're a beginner I wouldn't recommend heading straight for the deep end with more complex setups like that. If you do want to try though, there's a setting to enable the advanced features.

Hmmm, i guess i solved part of the problem, but i need programmalbe signals to be like path signals (to let trains go both ways throug them) Is it possible?

I'd say go for it. That was the best time of my life with TTD, making some advanced solutions to problems like that. And that was before programmable signals even existed.

But that begs the question... Wouldn't it be possible to clone the route restrictions stuff over to the red state of signals? Or maybe allow route restrictions to also set red/green state of signals?In fact, even though i haven't spent much time thinking about the implications, wouldn't it be better to have programmable signals and route restrictions merged into one? And at the same time, give it the capability to set the max speed of the train passing?

The two systems are fundamentally different, both in terms of implementation and usage/functionality.About the only things in common are that they use a similar style of GUI and are attached to signals.

Programmable signals control only their own signal aspect, and are effectively a type of fancy pre-signal. Signal aspects are evaluated independently of and in the absence of trains. Hence it doesn't make sense for the signal aspect to be calculated in terms of a train (which/what train?).In practice this makes them far less useful than I thought that they would be when I first merged them.

Routing restriction programs are executed by trains, and control only the train which executed them.Originally they only affected train path-finding, but later this was extended to other operations such as train PBS reservations.

Cadde wrote:

Also, while i am at it, i would like to reiterate my request to have more noise options in the map generator like what was offered in ChiPP? I looked at adding the options myself but i can't be arsed to install the Windows SDK because i am on a very old OS partition with too little space for all the stuff the SDK forces you to keep on your OS partition. And resizing it is not an option at the moment either. So pwetty please?

I can have a look at it some time.

drsid wrote:

Hmmm, i guess i solved part of the problem, but i need programmalbe signals to be like path signals (to let trains go both ways throug them) Is it possible?

Programmable signals, like other pre-signals, can be made two-way, but this has its own pitfalls.

Programmable signals control only their own signal aspect, and are effectively a type of fancy pre-signal. Signal aspects are evaluated independently of and in the absence of trains. [...]In practice this makes them far less useful than I thought that they would be when I first merged them.

Well, they _are_ useful. Although not in a way most people suspect (mixing concepts of "restricted" and "programmable").

I find that most, if not all, use cases for programmable signal can be replicated using new advanced routefinding restriction. You can detect train presence using Slots, and can program the PBS accordingly. I like this approach more since programmable signal are (to my understanding) absolute block signals, which PBS are not.

JGR, after playing with Slots for a while I still want to request collapsible groups for slots. I seems to use slot a lot for implementing priority in overtaking stations. While traditional Ro-Ro station on two-track main line wth 2 platforms per direction (4 total) can be somewhat prioritised using pre-signal (to limited extent -- when the line is dense and signal distance is short, the priority aren't effective unless I add dummy track for signal propagation), when the station is more complex: same 4 platform stations, but also allow train to terminates and reverse within station, the pre-signal setup cannot be used because PBS is now required. Before this I don't know how to solve this, but now I use slot for this type of station overtaking.

I have always been playing in Japanese style, which is that I crammed as much train as possible into as least track as possible (lol). On the core main line, I can have as many as 5-7 different stopping patterns, maybe also freight train that does not stop at any stations at all, sharing the same double-track main line. You can imagine the number of slots that it can reached if I play on large map (right now have been experimenting with setups on smaller map). I understand that this seems not be what you have in mind when you implement this, and I don't know if it is really the case for other build style.

Or better than collapsible groups of slots, I'd much prefer if slots are tied to a station. Of course this only change slot creation process, because signal does not belong to station, and you would need to select station first then select from slots controlled by that stations during restriction programming.

Appreciated all works.

EDIT: Have you mentioned anywhere how to create Slots (specifically where to access slot panels)? I don't think I have seen any; I know because I looked at the source code.

JGR, after playing with Slots for a while I still want to request collapsible groups for slots.

I understand and agree that something along those lines would be useful, however there are UI and other implications.The standard drop-down box currently used in the routing restriction window would have to be replaced with something else, which is potentially non-trivial.I also don't want to implement or imply that hierarchical arrangements of slots implies slot operations on hierarchies themselves, as I think that that could end up unmanageable.

ino wrote:

Or better than collapsible groups of slots, I'd much prefer if slots are tied to a station. Of course this only change slot creation process, because signal does not belong to station, and you would need to select station first then select from slots controlled by that stations during restriction programming.

That is an interesting idea, though quite different to the current implementation. It is potentially unintuitive if you're doing something not immediately adjacent to a station, or if you delete/re-create a station and slots used physically somewhere else are deleted.

ino wrote:

I seems to use slot a lot for implementing priority in overtaking stations. While traditional Ro-Ro station on two-track main line wth 2 platforms per direction (4 total) can be somewhat prioritised using pre-signal (to limited extent -- when the line is dense and signal distance is short, the priority aren't effective unless I add dummy track for signal propagation), when the station is more complex: same 4 platform stations, but also allow train to terminates and reverse within station, the pre-signal setup cannot be used because PBS is now required. Before this I don't know how to solve this, but now I use slot for this type of station overtaking.

I tend to use the long reserve feature for implementing station passing loops. This generally allows a through train to overtake a stopping train, without blocking the through train if overtaking is not immediately possible.I most commonly use 2 platforms and a bi-directional through-line, or 3 platforms of which the central one is bi-directional, or occasionally 2 platforms and 2 through lines (traditional looped platforms), which are not far from the 4 platform arrangement that you are using.

I have always been playing in Japanese style, which is that I crammed as much train as possible into as least track as possible (lol). On the core main line, I can have as many as 5-7 different stopping patterns, maybe also freight train that does not stop at any stations at all, sharing the same double-track main line. You can imagine the number of slots that it can reached if I play on large map (right now have been experimenting with setups on smaller map). I understand that this seems not be what you have in mind when you implement this, and I don't know if it is really the case for other build style.

I tend to mainly use slots for deadlock prevention, queuing sidings, and tricky junctions, so I have not accumulated all that many in my current game.I will look into seeing what can be done about it.

ino wrote:

EDIT: Have you mentioned anywhere how to create Slots (specifically where to access slot panels)? I don't think I have seen any; I know because I looked at the source code.

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