OT: The value of Ethanol

SNIP
I don't know all the facts but crude oil is a mix of many different
hydrocarbons. Gas is a mix of a certain select hydrocarbons. Since larger chain
hydrocarbons can be cracked into smaller chains, by repeated refining and
cracking cycles it may be possible to get more gas by volumn than the volumn of
crude oil started with. It depends on the densities of the various products. Of
course you can't create more hydrogen or carbon than you start with.
ron

[snip]
gasoline.
This is a nice trick. Refining 1 gallon of crude results in *more* than 1
gallon of
gas
even though gasoline is only 1 of many products in the crude oil.

Who is doing the math here? Enron?
Fact: 1 barrel of oil = 42 gallons.
$75/bbl / 42 = $1.79 just for the crude oil.
Add to this the yield (1 gal of oil nets less than 1 gal of gas); and the costs
of
transportation and refining (I don't know what these are but they're certainly
greater than zero).

Your simply repeating this statement does not make it true, nor does it
seem that anyone has said anything that has altered your belief in it.
How about you provide something credible and convince the rest of us
that your belief is correct?
Art

Yes, it can and is.
Yet both cracking and reforming will still not yield more than 1 gal of
gasoline from 1 gallon of crude oil. Nor will allowing for density variation
change this.

it _can't_ be done.
If it violates the known laws of physics, chemistry, thermodynamics, et al
then it positively, absolutely *CAN'T* be done at this time. Call me a
heretic if you want, but neither politics, religion, nor the phase of the moon
is going to change this either.
Art
PS Robatoy send his best regards.
"Robatoy" wrote...

The obvious one is E = M*C^2 .
You claim to input 1 gal of crude and output 1 gal of gasoline.
Since there are other factions also output (fuel oil, grease, and asphalt
for example), there must be a corresponding increase in mass. As
you haven't input massive amounts of energy to create this new mass
it is clearly impossible.

Precisely! The remaining mass is the heavier factions and hence, there
cannot be 1 gal of gasoline output. Q.E.D.
Art

How?
Huh? If the input is 1 gallon of crude oil and the output is 1 gallon
of gasoline then how do fuel oil, grease, and asphalt, none of which
were produced by the process in question, enter into the calculation?
If the output was to be one gallon of gasoline plus some unspecified
quantity of other substances then that would have been stated.

What new mass? There is no new mass. You seem to be confusing volume
with mass.

Well, actually if you are going to change the problem statement to
allow some output other than gasoline then you can get one gallon of
gasoline and use up the remaining mass on those "heavier fractions".

You win. I concede defeat.
You have beaten me at your own game.
Art
(Who had a mental lapse ignored the time honored principle:
"Never argue with an idiot.
They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.")

You are wasting your time, bro'.
You take a bucket, put in a handful of sand and add water till you hit
the one gallon mark.
Then in John Clarke's world, you then have a gallon of water, which
you can pour off, leave the sand behind and still have a gallon of
water. Then, in order to win the argument, convert the sand to water
while you're at it.
It's funnier 'n shit if it wasn't so pitiful.
r---> who's really tired of this, so last message on this...back to
woodworking.

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