FACT: We know that radiation poisoning will often kill a person, if it doesn´t kill you, you will simply survive and carry on as normal, and maybe develop cancer years later. Radiation poisoning survivors are not restored to youth.

DEDUCED FACT: It is not possible that the philosophers stone works by simply providing a dose of radiation.

FACT: There are 2 kinds of radiation that can poison a person, ionising radiation and neutron radiation. Most of the data available is about ionising radiation, but apparently nuetron radiation will have similar effects.

SUGGESTED THEORY: As a human grows up until the age of 25 he/she is sinking heavy water / heavy hydrogen somewhere in the body. This is probably somewhere in the body that is constructed one time and later does not regenerate. It could be the skeletal system, or the nervous sytem, or somewhere else altogther.
Once a person hits the age of 25 their body is perfectly formed, has stopped growing and contains no heavy hydrogen in the cells. All cells are operating at peak performance. However, since growing has ceased, the body suddenly no longer has a place to sink the incoming heavy hydrogen anymore. The heavy hydrogen coming in from food and water then slowly starts to accumulate in all the cells of the body, steadily decaying and inhibiting cell function over time as the concentration increases.

The philosophers stone is a substance that renders certain atomic nuclei unstable causeing them to reform. In a metal it causes restructure of the nucleus forming a new element....BUT...., in a living cell, it causes all heavy hydrogen molecules to eject their excess neutrons and instantly revert back to ordinary hydrogen.

Once a person ingests the philosophers stone, their body is belted with a massive dose of neutron radiation, as their cells simultaneously revert all heavy hydrogen atoms back to ordinary hydrogen.
This massive dose causes hair, fingernails and teeth to fall out, but at the same time all cells in the body have been reverted back to the state they were in when the person was 25. So they regrow hair teeth and fingernails and then have a youthful body. All cell processes are thereby restored to the speed and level that they were at 25 years of age.

If you accept that this might be true, it explains several mysteries, namely the reason for fasting before ingesting the stone. By fasting a person can significantly reduce the amount of fat and water stored in their body, which in turn reduces the amount of neutron radiation they will be hit with. It also explains why the texts mention that the philosophers stone should only be taken 1 time, subsequent doses whould have no effect once all heavy hydrogen is removed from the body.

If the above is true, then it also means that there would be a sweet spot in a persons life, the best time to take the philosophers stone, and a sweet spot for subsequent redosing. Eg Take it first at 35 and then every 10 years thereafter. Perhaps this is how the ultra long lifespans such as Atephius 900+ years can be achieved.

Regards
G Alchemist

solomon levi

12-08-2012, 12:03 AM

Hi G.

Some other factors that might be considered: cortisol
http://www.dailyperricone.com/2010/03/cortisol-the-death-hormone/

Interesting the article mentions coffee and that it isn't the caffeine that is a factor.
The Essene also said coffee depletes m-state/ormus and that it wasn't because of the caffeine.
Something going on there...

hormone (n.)
1905, from Gk. hormon "that which sets in motion," prp. of horman "impel, urge on," from horme "onset, impulse," from PIE *or-sma-, from root *er- "to move, set in motion." Used by Hippocrates to denote a vital principle; modern meaning coined by English physiologist Ernest Henry Starling (1866-1927). Jung used horme (1915) in reference to hypothetical mental energy that drives unconscious activities and instincts.

notice the etymological similarity to ormes... in fact, in greek it is spot on: orme/ὁρμή
Hormones are the keys, literally keys, to health and aging.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone

As we can see, there are seven endocrine glands corresponding to the seven chakras:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Illu_endocrine_system.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Illu_endocrine_system.png)

The endocrine glands produce hormones.
So one has to understand these hormones as frequencies/signatures corresponding to
the chakras and the electromagnetic spectrum as 7 levels of consciousness and energy.
A hormone is the physical manifestation of the corresponding chakra/etheric energy.
Anyway, the thymus/heart chakra gland is an important part of life/death/health.
What i understand is that the innocence of youth is the attitude/emotion that allows
the thymus to produce a "life hormone", whereas when the child becomes sexually
aware (i.e. polar in awareness) the "death hormone" begins to be produced instead.
Not unlike orgone/DOR theory.

http://www.nutritionreview.org/library/thymic.protein.php

Just another factor to consider.

Andro

12-08-2012, 12:17 AM

when the child becomes sexually aware (i.e. polar in awareness) the "death hormone" begins to be produced instead.

In occult traditions, sex and death are commonly closely associated with each other.

In Astrology, for example, Sex and Death are both ruled by Scorpio/the 8th House.

Of course it can also be interpreted as a 'Little Death' (initiatory, shamanic death), but my point is that the connection is well recognized, no matter what the interpretation is.

ghetto alchemist

12-08-2012, 04:03 AM

I'm ok with the fact that there may be other reasons to explain aging, but for any of them to get any serious attention from anyone (including me) they still have to explain this:

FACT: Food restriction extends lifespan in every kind of animal tested so far

In fact food restriction extends life by up to 30%.

The rule applies from large animals, all the way down to yeast cells.
That lifespan can be increased in yest cells tells me that the factors which control aging and death are happening at a cellular level.

Anyway, the heavy hydrogen theory of aging can explain calory restriction extending life, because calory restriction is also restriction of water intake (through food) and is therefore also restriction of heavy hydrogen accumulation.

But of course....yes I must concede there are other factors too :)
Sex sure plays a part.....as does the endocrine system.

Anyway...the reason I posted was because I think it would be good to have some understanding of how the philosophers stone works. Then you could make decisions about how to use it, eg should you give it to a 13 year old, or likewise an 80 year old. Should it be taken as one one dose or split into smaller doses over time etc.

Remember guys it is December 2012, the golden age is upon us.

Regards
G Alchemist

Andro

12-08-2012, 04:23 AM

G. Alchemist,

This is a very interesting analisys. I think I have even mentioned (here, on AF) the article you referred to, maybe two years ago...

From your perspective, is the discarding of D2O also responsible for healing/curing disease? Or just for the reverse-aging aspect?

If there is indeed a connection, than it may also lead to the assumption that D2O is also the cause of disease, not just aging... Yet, people also get sick before the age of 25...
This, of course, could be explained away by some innate 'defect' in the D2O (<25) 'storage system' you mention.

But there are different kinds of Ph. Stones, as well. A more 'archemical' one, may indeed have to do with the radiation you are talking about.

But there may be different applications which result not in healing/rejuvenation, but in outgrowing/transcending the physical body altogether.
I refer to it as 'Alchemical Suicide', and I've even heard of a few very rare texts that mention this.

Other than that, I can also find the endocrine perspective equally valid. To me, this perspective may have to do with secreting new 'hormones', that aren't normally part of our routine arsenal.

Krisztian

12-08-2012, 02:36 PM

In fact food restriction extends life by up to 30%.

Without any other alternative intervention(s), such as elixirs and tinctures, or specifically prepared herbs, etc., calorie restriction is a viable avenue for extending a lifespan. Overtime, the physical vehicle can be trained for it to need less and less foodstuff for it's basic maintenance. If you add a serious Qi-Gong practice to this recipe, then in a very real sense one builds, evolves out more the astral body to a point where the scale tips over naturally. The usual needs of the physical vehicle becomes less, in other words, you live out of the astral, still existing in this 'reality', being seen, heard, etc., but the same general principle(s) and chemical conditions associated with physical living is less significant. It's my hypothesis to life-extension, beyond the usual lifespan bracket.

I'm waiting for the day, when science catches up to explaining what I wrote here, and the experiences I have, had, and will have.

But of course....yes I must concede there are other factors too :)
Sex sure plays a part.....as does the endocrine system.

What you say has merit, I think. I've maintained over the years now that The Lapis probably produces something like a 'second puberty' of sort.

I know that research suggests in favour of sex; my experiences however show that celibacy can have benefits also. Take your pick, I suppose.

Anyway...the reason I posted was because I think it would be good to have some understanding of how the philosophers stone works. Then you could make decisions about how to use it, eg should you give it to a 13 year old, or likewise an 80 year old. Should it be taken as one one dose or split into smaller doses over time etc.

I did enjoy what you wrote.

Ezalor

12-09-2012, 01:49 PM

Why would you try to find a physical explanation for something that stands above physics? The laws of physics are but the consequences of complex magickal laws reflecting in the density of matter. By working directly with these higher laws, you can achieve many things that seem to contradict physics (while in fact, they rather overrule generic physics). Physics are only working as long as you are playing within its limitations, once you step out of its playground, it is nothing but a set of useless limitations.

Hint: the ultimate cause of aging is non-physical.

P.s.: ...but as far as I know it is being realized through the damage to the mithocondrial DNA by the highly reactive oxygen free radicals that are generated in the organelles.
P.p.s.: Are you sure the Stone must be realizing its effect by prolonging one incarnation rather than triggering immortality that lets you preserve all memories and knowledge through reincarnations?

Andro

12-09-2012, 02:05 PM

Hint: the ultimate cause of aging is non-physical.

It may be also equally stated that the 'cause' of ALL physical things (not just of aging) is non-physical :)

i can witness that common human can normally live min 40 days without any food, without any foreplay ;-) //& fell even better than normal, without any trix//

stone imo delivered?started?open gate for a lot of basic energy & body cure itself automatically. stone is universal, it can be used on animals, plants & /metals after adaptation for them/

Salazius

12-09-2012, 06:44 PM

This is a vast debate here going on ... Cause of death ?

For me : glues and crystals. These are the two majors toxins produced in the body with its normal functioning, food, etc.

When the "inner cellular ground" is in normal Ph (dependingo f the location in the body 6 in stomac and 8 in small intestine for ex) and clean, all the cells are duplicated without loss of inner energy and information.

Krisztian

12-09-2012, 08:56 PM

Thanks Gentlemen!

. . . . triggering immortality that lets you preserve all memories and knowledge through reincarnations?

Hungarian author Mária Szepes claimed the latter of which you write, Ezalor, as you I'm sure know of.

When the "inner cellular ground" is in normal Ph (dependingo f the location in the body 6 in stomac and 8 in small intestine for ex) and clean, all the cells are duplicated without loss of inner energy and information.

I've been as of late collect fresh snow in my backyard, filtering it, then keeping it in copper pyramid for a good 24 hours. For three days straight, drinking only this filtered "snow" (and eating raw vegetables) I noticed remarkable symptoms. When my mouth and tongue "sweats" I could taste no thing other than water. My pores also don't secrete the usual effects that motivates one to take a shower or bath.

It may be also equally stated that the 'cause' of ALL physical things (not just of aging) is non-physical.

I think one would need little convincing of that, Androgynus. I wish mainstream science would be more aligned with that observation; but I guess, all in due time, hey?

Ezalor

12-09-2012, 09:22 PM

Hungarian author Mária Szepes claimed the latter of which you write, Ezalor, as you I'm sure know of.
If we generally consider the turning of lead into gold more an allegory of the spiritual development, rather than actually turn physical lead into physical gold, then why would we not do the same in this case? ;)

solomon levi

12-10-2012, 07:46 AM

Anyway...the reason I posted was because I think it would be good to have some understanding of how the philosophers stone works. Then you could make decisions about how to use it, eg should you give it to a 13 year old, or likewise an 80 year old. Should it be taken as one one dose or split into smaller doses over time etc.

That's why I wrote what i wrote too.
I've also explained a couple times about massive DNA replication = fire of the stone = kundalini.
This also relates to children who have different kundalini activity before they become sexually aware teens
(or younger, especially nowadays), and kundalini is related to chakras and endocrine hormones.

If food/water intake is all you will recognise - what can I say. So be it.
I am also talking about real cell nutrition and fire/calories, just differently.

I also agree with Ezalor - the ultimate reason is not physical. That is significant in many ways,
but to bring it back to cell nutrition, our attitudes can starve or malnurish cells and cause their death/aging.
An addiction to a way of thinking or feeling manifests as food addictions and such. A cell becomes
addicted because of the ego-minds imposition. A cell can learn to not accept what is good for it and
prefer emotional crap, sugars, bleached flour, etc. This is not the cell's fault.

On another account, aging has to do with time and time only.
We simply do not realise that we are made out of time, so we have lost the ability
to control our aging. We think linearly, so we age. We believe in cause and effect,
so we age. We age because we are stuck perceptually. Free your perception and
you can eat anything, drink anything, walk on water or fire, etc.
The stone can be explained this way. Saturn/Chronos/Time is our starting material,
the Philosophers tell us.

When the disciples asked about fasting, Jesus said it is not what you put into your mouth,
but what comes out of your mouth that matters. Yogis have proven this many times.
I have proven it myself for myself. I eat pizza and burritos and drink coffee and smoke
roll-my-own pipe tobacco and sage cigarettes a couple times a day. But crap doesn't
come out of my mouth, or through my life expression. The conversations i have here
on the forums are my everyday conversations. I meet people in love and equality, even
though my diet isn't "balanced".
Would I be even more spectacular on water and fruits and veggies and raw food?
Maybe.
But I don't fool myself into believing that I will know the unconditional through conditioning/rules.
i.e. eat this, don't eat that.
Maybe we should ask if the Philosopher's stone is conditioned or unconditioned. That might help.

Anyway, it's 2012 - so keep you mind open. :)
Your beliefs will indicate where you end up.
Do you want to be in another, or the same, cause and effect world/"here", or
do you want the miraculous?

ghetto alchemist

12-10-2012, 08:57 AM

Androgenus wrote:
From your perspective, is the discarding of D2O also responsible for healing/curing disease? Or just for the reverse-aging aspect?

Yes adrogenous, this is a pertinant point and one that must be addressed for the heavy water theory to have any validity. I forgot that the philosophers stone simultaneously does two impossible feats, makes an old person young and cures all diseases. I only really focused on one and totally ignored the other.
The truth is I really can't make the heavy water theory explain curing all diseases.
Restoring your cells to the condition they were in at 25 might cure some diseases, especially those associated with age, but not all of them.

Do we have many references that tell us what diseases the stone can cure?
I can provide this one, it was sent to N** from an adept who called himself sergio:

Sergio wrote:
The terapeutic dosage is about 4-6 drops on male adults 4 on
female , and 1-3 on childrens . Only cure phisical diseases or
infections, blindness ,deafness , paraplegia , etc. But cannot
regenerete amputate members or deformations or born
syndromes(like Down).

It doesn't have nearly as much detail as I would like it to have, but does seem to show that the stone doesn't cure everything.
Can you get us any references, to shine some more light on the problem.
But in the meantime, your critisism is valid. Having young cells does not equate to being free of disease.

Also...Sol,
In reference to your analysis I would add one more test that I would like to know.
Is belief or knowledge of the philosophers stone required for it to work, are mind exercises also required?
A very pertinent question to say the least.
Because I would also like to know.....if I gave it to a dog, would it make him young again?

Regards
G Alchemist

solomon levi

12-10-2012, 01:19 PM

There is the story of the melissae ens that made an old hen young again,
and an old woman maid began to menstruate again:

"One of my most intimate friends prepared the Primum Ens Melissae, and his curiosity would not allow him to rest until he had seen with his own eyes the effects of the this arcanum, so that he might be certain whether or not the accounts given of its virtues were true. He therefore made the experiment, first upon himself, then upon an old female servant, aged seventy years, and afterwards upon an old hen that was kept as his house. First he took, every morning at sunrise. A glass of white wine that was tinctured with this remedy, and after using it for fourteen days his finger- and toe- nails began to fall out, without however, causing any pain. He was not courageous enough to continue the experiment, but gave the same remedy to the old female servant. She took it every morning for about ten days, when she began to menstruate again as in former days. At this she was very much surprised, because she did not know that she had been taking a medicine. She became frightened, and refused to continue the experiment. My friend took, therefore, some grain, soaked it in that wine, and gave it to the old hen to eat, and on the sixth day that bird began to lose its feathers, and kept losing them until it was perfectly nude, but before two weeks had passed, new feathers grew, which were much more beautifully colored; her comb stood up again, and she began again to lay eggs."

Spiritual things are similar. For example, a breathing discipline similar to pranayama
which is practiced in the Ramtha school caused many older women to begin to
menstruate again. (I was in this school for twenty odd years).
There was another discipline that involved stillness and darkness - like a caterpillar in
a chrysalis - and a list of "dreams"/desires which were meditated on as already accomplished.
One person, I remember, woke up with a completely new set of teeth from this discipline.
I, myself, experienced a spontaneous healing from this exercise.

As I've started speaking of elsewhere, it involves moving the attention from binary to analogical
mind. Or as Castaneda's don Juan said, (paraphrase) when the internal dialogue is stopped,
anything held in the mind is properly a command because it has no competition.

So, in a way, I would say belief or knowledge is required.
Some people can be healed through belief/faith alone.
Magicians heal through conscious knowledge of the belief process -
understanding why belief works.
Anyone putting the effort into creating the stone must believe in it or they
wouldn't take the time and effort. It is hard to say how much belief plays
a part, but one can accomplish everything the stone promises without a laboratory,
spiritually - so that should tell you something. :)

ghetto alchemist

12-13-2012, 01:33 AM

Found this reference by accident while searching through The Art of Distillation for something completely unrelated.
It clearly identifies which diseases the philosophers stone can cure.

The Art of Distillation : John French

With the aforesaid preparations the Ancients did not only preserve the health and strength of their bodyes, but also prolong their lives to a very old age, and not that only but cured thorowly the Epilepsie, Apoplexie, Elephantiasis, Leprosy, Melancholy, Madnesse, the Quartain, the Gout, Dropsie, Plurisy, all manner of Feavers, the Jaundise, Lucsvenerea, the Wolfe, Cancer, Noli ne´angere, Asthma, Consumption, the Stone, stopping of Urine, inward Impostumes, and such like diseases, which most men account incurable. For there is such a potent fire lying in prepared gold, which doth not onely consume deadly humours, but also renewes the very marrow of the bones, and raiseth up the whole body of man being half dead.

They that use any of these preparations for any of the foregoing diseases, must b take themselves to their bed for the space of two or three houres, and expect sweating to ensue, for indeed it will send forth sweat plentifully, and with ease, and leave no impurity or superfluity in the whole body. Note that they must take it forten dayes together in appropriated Liquors.

Let young men that expect long life, take any of the aforesaid preparations once in a month, and in the morning, but they must abstain from meat & drink, till the evening of the same day, for:in that time that matter will be digested into the radical humour; whereby the strength of the body is wonderfully increased, beauty doth flourish most wonderfully, and continues till extream old age.

Let old men take it twice in a moneth, for by this meanes will their old age be fresh till the appointed time of death.

Let young women and maids take it once in a moneth after their menstrua, for by this means they will look fresh and beautifull.

Let womon that are in travell take it, and it will help and strengthen them to bring forth without much paine, notwithstanding many difficulties.

Let it be given to women that have past the yeares of their menstrua once or twice in a month, and it will preserve them vert fresh, and many times cause their menstrua to returne, and make them capable again of bearing children.

It cures the plague, and expells that matter of a carbuncle by sweat most potently.

When I say that this, or it will doe thus or thus, I mean any one of the fore named preparations viz. Autum Potabile, Oils, or Tincture of gold.

It also answers a couple of my own questions regarding dosage and age.
Notice it does say not to eat or drink water the same day you take it.

I´m still not sure about how to fit the diseases themselves with the theory though.
Thanks for your reference Sol. The bit about the chicken was particularly telling.

G Alchemist

ghetto alchemist

12-13-2012, 03:06 AM

OK, this is for Androgenous...... in answer to your challenge that restoring cells to that of a 25 year old does not explain the curing of all diseases, I have taken a look at those diseases specified by John French and have categorised them and analysed them to get my head around this.

First, there are a couple of diseases that are definately age related, meaning 25 year olds don´t have them, and restoring your cells to 25 should automatically cure you. These are:

Then there are a other diseases related to infection and parasites. We don´t see many of these diseases anymore because of our improved health and well being through sanitation and nutrition. These diseases would be cured simply by making your cells healthy again and restoring immune system functioning.

By restoring full cell function, general well being should also be improved.....which should also cure Jaundice

Which only leaves a couple of diseases....these ones:

Asthma
Cancer
Epilepsy
Madness
Melancholy (Depression)

OK I admit I´m not sure about those last ones.

Regards
G Alchemist

Krisztian

12-13-2012, 03:40 AM

The stone can be explained this way. Saturn/Chronos/Time is our starting material, the Philosophers tell us.

I think Saturn refers to the blackness, the backdrop of what we call First Matter. That's an interesting line of questioning, that's for sure. Hennig Brandt certainly believed that from his research. So do I.

Would I be even more spectacular on water and fruits and veggies and raw food? Maybe..

Philosophically anything can look anything. It's just a mind chatter, feeling of conquer, until life gets one emotional. Then, philosophy is 'out the window'. In practical terms, I've been eating primarily raw food strictly for the past 8 years. And I can say from experience that my mood is even, I don't have swings of emotions, my hormones are balanced as well, that as people have stated does influence the quality of cells.

The word that professionals use is [I]equanimity.

To change eating habits to more purer materials, requires a sense of surrender for the intellect, it's a scary place in other words. Because every person who intellectually philosophical is addicted to an emotion they hide with their intellect about. So when you remove the food they consume for that emotional addiction, for that 'high', one becomes quite vulnerable. Candace Pert's research speaks plenty on it. Attitude creates biology, no doubt. But it's also a vicious loop.

In any case, I'm not making a case for either way, I'm just reporting on a fact in my existence. Also, just adding to this already very good Thread and discussion.

thrival

02-08-2013, 04:27 PM

As I've started speaking of elsewhere, it involves moving the attention from binary to analogical
mind. Or as Castaneda's don Juan said, (paraphrase) when the internal dialogue is stopped,
anything held in the mind is properly a command because it has no competition.

So, in a way, I would say belief or knowledge is required. Some people can be healed through belief/faith alone. Magicians heal through conscious knowledge of the belief process - understanding why belief works. Anyone putting the effort into creating the stone must believe in it or they wouldn't take the time and effort. It is hard to say how much belief plays a part, but one can accomplish everything the stone promises without a laboratory, spiritually - so that should tell you something. :)

I think there might be two types of healing being discussed here, natural and super-natural. Natural would include witless healing where belief is not a factor, double-blind studies. For example a disease cause by some deficiency is cured by supplying the missing nutrient or mineral, observed in children and animals who have no idea what's in the pill and are too distracted by other things to give it much thought. Also the universe may very well be created by a thought, but our own brains don't think very well when nutrition is sub-par, and if mind-over-matter worked consistently, we might all be living better lives and in a better world.

And then there is super-natural healing where Higher interdimensional beings with expanded perspectives and capacities effect the changes we're asking for. Call it each person's Higher Self or the Ascension body, or a Spirit brother or sister who enters this domain, what have you. I have no doubt these Beings (who exist, are real) can effect miracles, but we humans in our current form are pretty limited, even with positive thinking.

Books I've found useful: The Secret Science Behind Miracles and The Secret Science At Work by Max Freedom Long, and Course in Miracles (www.courseinmiracles.com)

Seth-Ra

02-08-2013, 07:37 PM

I think there might be two types of healing being discussed here, natural and super-natural. Natural would include witless healing where belief is not a factor, double-blind studies. For example a disease cause by some deficiency is cured by supplying the missing nutrient or mineral, observed in children and animals who have no idea what's in the pill and are too distracted by other things to give it much thought. Also the universe may very well be created by a thought, but our own brains don't think very well when nutrition is sub-par, and if mind-over-matter worked consistently, we might all be living better lives and in a better world.

And then there is super-natural healing where Higher interdimensional beings with expanded perspectives and capacities effect the changes we're asking for. Call it each person's Higher Self or the Ascension body, or a Spirit brother or sister who enters this domain, what have you. I have no doubt these Beings (who exist, are real) can effect miracles, but we humans in our current form are pretty limited, even with positive thinking.

Books I've found useful: The Secret Science Behind Miracles and The Secret Science At Work by Max Freedom Long, and Course in Miracles (www.courseinmiracles.com)

Personally, every "medicine" ive seen that is claimed as simple nutrients, or chemicals, etc and passed "double-blind" studies, have more side-effects than they "cure", or only remove the symptom, and not the problem itself.
The only real kind of healing, is spirit to spirit, Life to Life - some call it "supernatural" but to me, its purely natural.

~Seth-Ra

thrival

02-08-2013, 07:54 PM

Personally, every "medicine" ive seen that is claimed as simple nutrients, or chemicals, etc and passed "double-blind" studies, have more side-effects than they "cure", or only remove the symptom, and not the problem itself. The only real kind of healing, is spirit to spirit, Life to Life - some call it "supernatural" but to me, its purely natural. ~Seth-Ra

You've never been to a doctor then, who has done you any good? There may well be side-effects to pharmaceuticals, but were it not for penicillin (made from mold, which is "natural") there would be a lot fewer people or farm animals on terra. Sometimes, some of us just go with what works. (I'm a big fan of colloidal silver & ozone now.) The difference between science and religion is science goes by observation, while religion requires "belief." Jesus showed that a bridge existed between natural and super-natural, i.e. they are a continuum, "nature" being a collection of created things. As for the cure of deficiency diseases with the thing missing, is pretty incontravertable / non-controversial.

Seth-Ra

02-08-2013, 09:40 PM

You've never been to a doctor then, who has done you any good?

The only good ever done, was masking the symptom - all actual healing and cure, was left to me and Spirit, as all things are.

There may well be side-effects to pharmaceuticals, but were it not for penicillin (made from mold, which is "natural") there would be a lot fewer people or farm animals on terra.

Thats not necessarily a bad thing. lol

Sometimes, some of us just go with what works. (I'm a big fan of colloidal silver & ozone now.)

Im a fan of certain things, based on their energy signature and properties, sure - but such is not a cure, as much as a simple aid. There is a big difference, often overlooked, between cure and aid.

The difference between science and religion is science goes by observation, while religion requires "belief." Jesus showed that a bridge existed between natural and super-natural, i.e. they are a continuum, "nature" being a collection of created things. As for the cure of deficiency diseases with the thing missing, is pretty incontravertable / non-controversial.

The two are not mutually exclusive as out-dated "enlightenment" ways of thinking would have many to believe. While belief also does play some role, that of one's current polarity/pattern of being/seeing - it is not a matter of what im talking about either. Spirit/Life does not = religion/belief, just as Nature is not merely created things. :)

~Seth-Ra

Awani

02-09-2013, 12:08 AM

It is not a coincidence that HARM is in pharmacy.

:cool:

thrival

02-09-2013, 11:01 AM

Wow, you guys sure like to split hairs. Yes, well the word pharmacy comes from the root 'pharmakeus' which meant sorcerer, or mixer of poisons, and was applied to the first ...alchemists! And then there was Hippocrates' school, the base of naturopathy, that taught food & fasting. Incidentally food & nutrition is probably the best way to treat deficiency diseases if you're still in and using a body. But I sure won't begrudge those companies who found ways of producing vitamins with bacteria, or even HFCS with enzymes, given that sugar is a prized molecule in nature, and how ants will attack a melting popsicle.

To say that only spirit is real is to be part of the Mary Baker Eddy ranks. Spirit invented matter to have something to work through within those domains.

And I'm (not) the first to admit or say that religion & science are twin sisters. All I'm saying is that some things are quite well understood by those who have bodies, without appealing to a higher plane, which also exists. There's a time and a place for everything, hopefully you won't be importuning heaven when your (physical) remedy is right at hand.

Nature is a collection of created things, that spirit(s) can use. It's creation on another level than what humans are privy. The best we can do is rearrange its parts.

Fewer people, hmmm. You wouldn't be part of the Georgia Guidestones crowd? Earth is both a safety net and a launchpad for fallen ...man, and at some point will have served its purpose.

Andro

02-09-2013, 12:39 PM

Fewer people, hmmm. You wouldn't be part of the Georgia Guidestones crowd?

For the sake of clarity, it is recommended to include the relevant quote from the person to whom the statement/question is addressed.

In this case, I assume you are referring to:

[...] there would be a lot fewer people or farm animals on terra. [...]

Also, on a more general note, please let's all at least try to stay focused on the original topic of this discussion, which is: Possible explanation of how the Philosopher's Stone works (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3313-Possible-explanation-of-how-the-philosophers-stone-works&p=26490#post26490).

Alternatively, the more off-topic posts can be relocated to a new/different thread.

Thanks.

thrival

02-09-2013, 01:12 PM

Androgynous:

Point well taken. (I am not so good at using all the board's technical features yet, for example I have no idea how you managed to quote two people in one post window.)

As for how the stone works (apart from the Book of Aquarius explanation of it being concentrated "life energy" which is quite good), I've noticed from studying different alchemy recipes, that often a salt is joined to one or more metals. The salt is a metal and an acid combination that has found chemical equilibrium. By adding additional metals this balance is upset and cannot find equilibrium again unless additional acid(s) are added. It's rather like a group of neighbors on a snowy day, all needing to use but one snow shovel. This would make the substance very chemically active, as the ingredient in short supply, gets passed around.

How it works in the body: Humans are made of mostly gases (H2O & N) and a relatively small amount of minerals. Anything able to effect transmutations on substances many times it's weight would have effect on those ingredients that human bodies are made. However humans have absolutely no control of how ingredients are allocated internally, so a goodly amount must be handled by a Higher Source that's responsible for other unconscious, autonomic events of a given human pattern. A "Higher Self," if you will, and something none of us can take credit for.

Seth-Ra

02-10-2013, 07:53 AM

Wow, you guys sure like to split hairs.

Clarify, actually. :)

To say that only spirit is real is to be part of the Mary Baker Eddy ranks.

If you say so, i wasnt there. :)

Spirit invented matter to have something to work through within those domains.

Spirit is within all things - all matter. But simply moving components around, does not equate to communing or harmonizing with the Spirit within the matter - it is not knowing and working the matter, its just moving parts around to see what happens, if anything.

And I'm (not) the first to admit or say that religion & science are twin sisters. All I'm saying is that some things are quite well understood by those who have bodies, without appealing to a higher plane, which also exists. There's a time and a place for everything, hopefully you won't be importuning heaven when your (physical) remedy is right at hand.

There is no physical remedy, that was not born of Spirit. If a cure is there, it is from Above, manifest Bellow. If you use Bellow as a magnet to attract the Above, same difference - but the source is the same.

Nature is a collection of created things, that spirit(s) can use. It's creation on another level than what humans are privy. The best we can do is rearrange its parts.

Nature is a living Spirit(s), collective aspects of the One, as are we. We are totally privy to these realms, if we are willing and ready to be so. The best thing we can do is commune with the Spirit.

Fewer people, hmmm. You wouldn't be part of the Georgia Guidestones crowd? Earth is both a safety net and a launchpad for fallen ...man, and at some point will have served its purpose.

Lol, no im not part of that crowd. Balance, however, will be maintained.
As for the rest of it - we shall see. :)

Lastly, you said:

However humans have absolutely no control of how ingredients are allocated internally, so a goodly amount must be handled by a Higher Source that's responsible for other unconscious, autonomic events of a given human pattern. A "Higher Self," if you will, and something none of us can take credit for.

Since our Higher Self, is us, we can indeed take credit for it - and by communion with our Higher Self, as with all of Spirit, we can determine how things internally are handled, as well as externally.

If you disagree with me, thats perfectly fine, im not trying to argue, and i understand if you cant see what im saying. I must say it, nevertheless. :) *raises a glass* Cheers.

Also, on a more general note, please let's all at least try to stay focused on the original topic of this discussion, which is: Possible explanation of how the Philosopher's Stone works (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3313-Possible-explanation-of-how-the-philosophers-stone-works&p=26490#post26490).

Alternatively, the more off-topic posts can be relocated to a new/different thread.

Thanks.

Very true, and my apologies if ive gone off topic. The crux of my comments, are that the Stone works off of the Life/Spirit itself: both the energy poured into the Thing, and the relationship between it and the user = The relationship between the micro-artist's Spirit and the Macro-All/One Spirit. :)

~Seth-Ra

thrival

02-10-2013, 03:45 PM

Spirit is within all things - all matter. But simply moving components around, does not equate to communing or harmonizing with the Spirit within the matter - it is not knowing and working the matter, its just moving parts around to see what happens, if anything.

I agree, it "doesn't equate to communing or harmonizing with the Spirit within the matter," and most people who are looking for a healing, aren't looking to do either of those first two things, they just want to be well, so they avail themselves of materials that historically or anecdotally or through double-blind studies (faith not required) have been shown to work. Also I would mention that faith isn't a bad thing but can often be misplaced; that's why humans practice the scientific method and God isn't ag'in it, except maybe where it equates to looking a gift-horse in the mouth.

There is no physical remedy, that was not born of Spirit. If a cure is there, it is from Above, manifest Bellow. If you use Bellow as a magnet to attract the Above, same difference - but the source is the same.

While rigorously true, fact is the material was laid down a long-time ago, and what people are most familiar with. And again I don't think most people are trying to attract anything beyond properties that already exist in the matter. Most people go to church on Sundays and that's the extent of their communing and attracting. Kids, commerce and keeping themselves entertained are all big distractions to what you're talking about

Nature is a living Spirit(s), collective aspects of the One, as are we. We are totally privy to these realms, if we are willing and ready to be so. The best thing we can do is commune with the Spirit.

Not sure nature is One spirit, though I'd say manifestation of the One, no wait, I won't say that because the One delegates His powers to make it a collective enterprise that not everyone shares in equally, or benefits equally, except maybe a certain "common ground." And while I believe theoretically "we are totally privy to these realms," in practice it ain't necessarily so, at least not for most people who are quite preoccupied, wrestling with their karma, and their neighbors.

Lol, no im not part of that crowd. Balance, however, will be maintained. As for the rest of it - we shall see. :)

Yup-per.

Lastly, you said:

Since our Higher Self, is us, we can indeed take credit for it - and by communion with our Higher Self, as with all of Spirit, we can determine how things internally are handled, as well as externally.

Actually you are not your Higher Self just yet, but an imperfect facsimile, an experiment with all the possibilities of failure, going through a purification process before being upgraded. The Creator and the created are not on equal standing, and not all things are within any individual's power, internally or externally, and to "believe" otherwise won't do you much good, although you are free to try until you meet any particular ...wall. Also the only recent example we have was Christ who never took credit but in fact gave his Higher Self / "Father" all the credit. (Calling ourselves God is a very gross delusion, and doesn't split hairs or clarify enough. It's kind of like mixing a bunch of colors together and calling it white; while white might have all colors in it, the reverse is not also true, but by matter of degree.)

Very true, and my apologies if ive gone off topic. The crux of my comments, are that the Stone works off of the Life/Spirit itself: both the energy poured into the Thing, and the relationship between it and the user = The relationship between the micro-artist's Spirit and the Macro-All/One Spirit. :)

Some philosophers say that beyond assembling the proper ingredients in a glass, at the necessary heat and for the required time period, nature makes the stone without any further human input, feelings or beliefs not-withstanding, and would do it's job in nature, whether or not a person were standing in the woods to hear a tree fall.

In Chinese medicine, correcting a person's philosophy is considered the highest form of healing, and got more than a few doctors killed.

Ghislain

02-10-2013, 07:25 PM

Great discussion above, but there has not been a lot of emphasis on what the finished stone is.

IMO the finished stone, if one were to achieve it, would be you.

If that is the case then the only place the answer to the question this thread poses, "Possible
explanation of how the philosophers stone works", can come from is you.

I guess you will know when you have that answer.

Ghislain

Edit: If one wants to look into aging then a good start may be to read up on Telomerase. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomerase)

Seth-Ra

02-10-2013, 09:15 PM

Thrival,

Im afraid i wont continue this train of discussion here, for not wanting to go "off topic" in this thread. I also dont feel it will do you any good at your current stage. I advise, with all sincerity, that you dont get caught up on what "most people" look at or are after (illusion and masks) - as they dont know what they are after, and are, in a lot of ways, lost in the distractions, by their own choice a lot of times. Its not for everyone, but those that will hear/see - same for the Salvation Christ offered.
Also, He did claim to be one with the Father also. Its a fine line between viewing self as micro, and macro, simultaneously. ;)

________

Ghislain,

The finished stone is indeed you, even if made outside of you. As within, so without. :)

____

In short (and pertinent to the discussion above), the Stone is akin to God in a bottle. You only get what you are able to receive, just like in a spirit-to-spirit discussion/encounter with others also. A metal doesnt get transmuted unless it is opened, neither does a person. Spirit may make its manifestations and form this beloved Item - but it is unseen by all but the initiated (Stone the builders rejected).
The Artist that understands and is willing, can take of the Stone and live for centuries - yet - using this same Stone, on one who only believes in its ability to heal their affliction(s), it will do that, and only that, cause thats what they are open to get from it. :)

~Seth-Ra

thrival

02-10-2013, 10:14 PM

I advise, with all sincerity, that you dont get caught up on what "most people" look at or are after (illusion and masks) - as they dont know what they are after, and are, in a lot of ways, lost in the distractions, by their own choice a lot of times. Its not for everyone, but those that will hear/see - same for the Salvation Christ offered.

Also, He did claim to be one with the Father also. Its a fine line between viewing self as micro, and macro, simultaneously. ;)

________

Ghislain,

The finished stone is indeed you, even if made outside of you. As within, so without. :)

____

In short (and pertinent to the discussion above), the Stone is akin to God in a bottle. You only get what you are able to receive, just like in a spirit-to-spirit discussion/encounter with others also. A metal doesnt get transmuted unless it is opened, neither does a person. Spirit may make its manifestations and form this beloved Item - but it is unseen by all but the initiated (Stone the builders rejected).
The Artist that understands and is willing, can take of the Stone and live for centuries - yet - using this same Stone, on one who only believes in its ability to heal their affliction(s), it will do that, and only that, cause thats what they are open to get from it. :)

Seth-Ra:

Don't worry, I'm not caught up like that, I only used "distracted persons" as an example to show that healing happens for such people, children, animals, whether they give it their attention or not, take little or no credit, even less communing with "the One," (mostly inoperative faith) and using materials commonly agreed (whether by herbalists, nutritionists or the medical profession) to do something. The scientific method is defined by testing and an admission of ignorance, we don't know if it works, let's try it and see. Otherwise the stone could be anything we select per our own whims, but misplaced faith is just that.

Just because something works without ego doesn't make it wrong. It's important not to overrate one's own input; when the philosophers said it was womens' work and childs' play, I believe them. Even a witless person able to follow instructions, can bake a cake, if you show them how. (You don't need to know how an internal combustion engine works to drive a car, metaphorically speaking.) As for Jesus, yes there's a point when the human and Higher Self join forces; I don't think the line is so fine though, the proof is in one's expanded capacities. Also the word "oneness" has nuances of semantics.

If we were the stone then we wouldn't need to make and eat it to stay young. However I'm not saying it's impossible to concentrate internally, the necessary elements to stop eating, there are breatharians in history, and saints who died incorruptible (didn't decay.) Those who quit eating generally had some inner knowledge & practice, a boon from Higher Spirits in another realm; they didn't enlighten themselves. As for the stone and its effects I believe it stands alone on its own merits and the effects it produces, however and whomever put it in a glass and managed the fire.

glenerson

02-11-2013, 06:16 PM

After you "concocted" the philosopher's stone, you will realize that matter is just an illusion and you are an spiritual being. After this realization, the actual matter is destroyed but things seem to exist because you and the surroundings that you operate in are still in an illusion.

This illusion, which the Buddhist/Hindus call "maya", will end if you die. You will not physically die because you don't exist physically but the illusion will only end. Your spirit is already within the Pleroma ("Fullness") but it is still not full since the illusion, which is the image of matter, which you destroyed using the philosophers stone, still exist within it. When you die, the void that the illusion makes will be full and the Pleroma which you're a part of will be full.

Philosopher's stone is the way to liberate yourself from matter. It is the trishula of Shiva, the destroyer. It destroys matter, unites you with God until the only thing that exist is You in/as God, nothing else.

crestind

02-13-2013, 03:26 AM

After you "concocted" the philosopher's stone, you will realize that matter is just an illusion and you are an spiritual being. After this realization, the actual matter is destroyed but things seem to exist because you and the surroundings that you operate in are still in an illusion.

This illusion, which the Buddhist/Hindus call "maya", will end if you die. You will not physically die because you don't exist physically but the illusion will only end. Your spirit is already within the Pleroma ("Fullness") but it is still not full since the illusion, which is the image of matter, which you destroyed using the philosophers stone, still exist within it. When you die, the void that the illusion makes will be full and the Pleroma which you're a part of will be full.

Philosopher's stone is the way to liberate yourself from matter. It is the trishula of Shiva, the destroyer. It destroys matter, unites you with God until the only thing that exist is You in/as God, nothing else.
I agree with this. Fulcanelli seems to hint at something similar. Taoism suggests something similar. That with the stone, one is somehow able to transcend the limitations of what we perceive as reality, so that the limitations of physics no longer apply. And that is what alchemy is about, playing god. After all, when you are beyond the physical laws of the universe, are you not a god of sorts? The fast way to achieve this is the stone. The slow way is through meditation, some sort of mental training techniques. So essentially the person gains all the abilities of the stone.

(If you are one that frequents conspiracy sites, many claim that there is a great deal of symbolism in the media in regards to "ancient mysteries" and producers, etc. are all in on this. The Matrix is eerily similar to the whole idea of alchemy. That sometime in the past, an individual was able to see the Matrix as it was and break through its limitations, the Matrix being the physical universe. The pill down the rabbit hole is red? Coincidence?)

This is all good but it does not answer the question of how the stone works or what it is either. OP's idea regarding heavy water is reasonable and worth consideration. The stone can change physical matter, so it affects certain elements in the body as well. That certainly accounts for the abilities of the stone on the physical plane, but it certainly doesn't account for its abilities in the "astral" (or what have you) plane. It can affect your astral body in such a way that it becomes easy to depart the physical body. The stones from different elements are also said to have entirely different properties as well. The red Au stone is for healing, but it is the blue?/silver? Ag stone that opens up the astral senses.

So really what one would need to figure out is what the astral body is and what the stone itself is physically in the context of modern science. The idea that the stone is something charged with "life force" doesn't explain anything, because it does not explain the how.

Ghislain

02-15-2013, 05:07 PM

So really what one would need to figure out is what the astral body is and what the stone itself is
physically in the context of modern science.

but maybe first find out what you are and what part you play.

Ghislain

Dragonsblood

01-27-2014, 11:30 AM

but maybe first find out what you are and what part you play.

Ghislain

This should be quite the accomplishment - finding out what UR and the part One plays would require a good vantage point.

And this may be what the process of concocting and partaking of the stone does, that it provides an alternative point of view? Maybe in the same way that e.g. solving a Celtic knot requires operating through another dimension.

Ghislain

01-27-2014, 05:22 PM

I'm sure an endoscope would suffice DB

It amazes me that people live within their own bodies every minute of every day, but many
fail basic secondary education biology, the science about themselves. I am guilty of this.

We then try to understand the universe and all that is...is this not trying to run before you
can walk?

Sort of like trying to soup-up an engine before you know how the engine works.

In the words of Maria Von Trapp, "let's start at the very begining, a very good place to start"

I wish i had the extreme quoting skills to get quotes from a couple pages back and ones from here ect... but alas...

I have to debunk you here ghetto with the radiation bit. (At least if we are considering normal, known forms of radiation)

Getting hit with neutron radiation is the equivalent of having a million nano needles, fired through the barrel of a gun, right at your DNA. You do not want to put an item in your body that is bombarding the absolute crap out of your nerves, DNA, brain, eye retina, all at the same time, particles that are so small that it can go right through a nuceli and cut a piece of your DNA right in half!

Message!?: DON'T EAT RADIATION

point 2: Loved the reference to Christs dual consciousness. Epic.

point 3: IMHO The Stone works similar to what ghetto has initially described. It flushes out a lot of water, and with it, a soup of old toxins, dead and cancerous cells, while actively protecting healthy cells... and all in the matter of a few hours or a few days....

MMMMYYyyyyyy...... way of thinking how the biological happenings may occur, is to consider how quickly this process is happening... we are talking billions of cells getting purged every second, others being protected, others getting tossed all together....

I believe that this will require some very complex (or alternatively, devilishly simple) cell signalling. For those not in the biology know, that is basically when cells use certain molecules such are steriols or special carbohydrates to talk to each other.

To cut a long explanation down... i think that the stone contains a type of STEROID. This is the 'new addition to our arsenal' of hormones that basically goes around and starts slapping cells back into gear.

This in my opinion also requres a huge energy transfer... for all of this complex detoxing, and with little to no preparation for such a thing, the body would require A LOT of AVAILABLE energy.

So if this STEROID was then able to go around, talk to and give the free energy required, it could say to all the cells, "Okay guys, here's some back up energy to cover your output quota for today! Now take a break mate and just work on your detoxing."

That is my conclusion................ After self analysis, i believe that this theory supports the GW method as a true path to Stone-hood as urine would offer the complex biological molecules (there not that complex, but hard for us lazy poor alchemists to create in the lab) required to create a (Gold-Steroid)!

I also believe that the Stone would offer a few different molecules, one for DNA regeneration aswell... the Steroid would be for 'outside' the cell, and another molecule for 'inside'

Just a theory....

Awani

10-13-2016, 11:12 PM

...i think that the stone contains a type of STEROID... the body would require A LOT of AVAILABLE energy...

It could be that nothing can be created, everything is already created... so in terms of energy you cannot make any new energy. There is only x amount (and this amount is more than enough). So the way I see what you are saying about this STEROID is what could be said of the mind - or will of the mind. So I guess symbolically a Stone could be made, but internally it is already made.

Just a theory....

Anything I say is that, and anything anyone says to me is received like that. :)

:cool:

ghetto alchemist

10-15-2016, 09:40 PM

Mr Mixer, it seems you saying the p-stone works by simply acting as a steroid.
I assume then that you must believe that the fact that many old texts describing the effects of hair, teeth and fingernails falling out and the fact the radiation poisoning produces the exact same effect on people, is merely a coincidence.

Perhaps it is a coincidence, but I don't think so personally.

I often imagine that an adult with a youthful appearance, but no hair or teeth might look like a bit like a newly born baby. So I sometimes wonder, when Jesus was quoted as saying you have to be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven, was he using metaphor to refer to the effects of taking the p-stone?
Just an idea is all.

elixirmixer

10-16-2016, 02:15 PM

I believe Jesus was referring to the death of the natural man and the replacement with the spiritual man, (He could also have meant to die in this world and be born of spirit into the astral realms...) which could coincide with the taking of the p-stone.

I do love the idea of hair, teeth, and nails falling out, but i don't think its radiation poisoning. I do think it is a coincidence, and that in the case of radiation poisoning, the body is falling apart, in the case of the p-stone, i feel the body is just dropping what it no longer needs.

I don't think the p-stone acts 'just' as a steroid, but that this is one of many mechanisms used by the Stone to interact with our cells and cause these mighty changes.

I have decided also that i'm going to attempt a P-Stone run... Wish me luck.

Voltaire

12-08-2016, 01:10 AM

what are you referring to when you say "the philosopher's stone" ?

There are 7 different variations of any one thing in all isoteric arts;
The philosopher's stone, the "cornerstone" of masonry, the "elixir of life" etc; these are all different for each individual person based on your birthday...

The Philosopher's stone isn't a stone... it's fundamentally more of an elixir comprised of certain ingredients depending on your star sign; these will physically allow you to deliver gold from heaven to earth... without them you just don't have the correct material.

There is a chemical out there that shorts the need for all this, all the elixirs, meditations, work, etc;
it provides an "instant enlightenment", although it's not known about to ordinary members of the public, and carries some side-effects.
It's also slightly "unstable" you could say :)
and is of itself not a means I would recommend - should you over come across it.

The Philosopher's stone isn't a stone... it's fundamentally more of an elixir comprised of certain ingredients depending on your star sign...

I somewhat agree with the "isn't a stone" bit, but IMO it has nothing to do with star signs.

There is a chemical out there that shorts the need for all this, all the elixirs, meditations, work, etc;
it provides an "instant enlightenment", although it's not known about to ordinary members of the public, and carries some side-effects.
It's also slightly "unstable" you could say :)
and is of itself not a means I would recommend - should you over come across it.

Do you mean DMT (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4690-DMT-Report)? And if so what side effects? But if you say this drug is Ketamine then I reserve the right to disagree with your claims (till I have a direct experience myself).