Middle East War – Assad – The Lion Cornered….

The chaos of the Arab Spring continues as the reign of Dictator Moamar Qaddafi may be in its final hours. As I have pointed out before, where do the so-called rebels get missile launchers and other sophisticated weaponry? Who is providing the arms? Why is our president and other leaders so hell-bent-on-leather, to oust Qaddafi and other leaders? What is the end game here and who is behind i t?

While the revolution in Libya is headlining the news, Bashar Assad – the Lion of the Middle East, has been pushed into a corner. He has killed over 2000 of his own people in a bloody crackdown, to stem the revolution that is sweeping the entire Middle East. In my opinion he is now backed into a corner and should be considered volatile and dangerous. I also believe that Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction, were shuttled into Syria before the invasion by the coalition forces and are under his control. Assad has one card left to play hold onto his power and it is this, attack Israel.

Assad, is what I would call a modern-day Nazi. He is virulently anti-Semitic, his troops use the Nazi salute, he is the Syrian version of Der Führer as he is the supreme dictator and rules with an iron fist. Attacking Israel might rally the people behind him. Al Quds day is coming International Quds Day 2011 « and people around the world will be calling for an independent Palestinian state. The one dynamic that will unite the Arabs is a war with Israel. If Assad starts it will the Iranians then jump into the fray? With the recent rocket attacks by HAMAS from Gaza can there be any doubt that war will come to the region?

Assad is in a precarious position. He may be overthrown and if that happens all he has to do is look at Hosni Mubarak, who is now standing trial in Egypt, to see what his fate will be. Assad has a limited time to act. He is cornered and like the dangerous lion that he is, he must strike now or possibly lose the power that his family has held for decades.

In closing today’s post: We know from the Guidebook to the Supernatural i.e. the Bible, that Damascus will be destroyed. (See Isaiah 17) Are we seeing events that will lead to this? Will Assad strike Israel in an attempt to solidify his power? I believe that he is the player on the stage to watch right now as the “Lion” is cornered.

If Bashar Assad is The Antichrist as Scott Dryer believes, it’s hard to see how a peace deal could be cut with Israel short of a mutual assured destruction scenario. “https://lamarzulli.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/acceleration-radio-recap-2/” It’s not impossible. Especially with access to black market nukes or wmd’s.

It’s important to grasp that both Libya and Syria have been considered state supporters of terrorism, same as North Korea and to a lesser extent Cuba and Venezuela.

I’m surprised that these oil rich, terrorist supporting, despots haven’t already provided dirty bombs to international terrorists to direct attention elsewhere. They don’t seem to be able to call the shots. I agree with LA that other powers support or control the factions, such as the US providing support for the Libyan rebels. It’s classically been Putin/Russia and France that supported the likes of Assad and Q’daffy. Either of them could give refuge to ousted dictators with the intent of possibly returning them to power as puppets. Perhaps that’s how the 10 horns come about?

I’ve shown before how the “kingdom of the north” in Daniel and Rev. 13 appears to be composed of the UK+EU+xSU, meaning lion, leopard, and bear. Old empires: UK, EU ~ Germany ~ Nazi+Fascist, x-Soviet Union. Which is what The Beast system comes out of as The Antichrist goes from leading one of then nations to all of them. Theologians / historians look more at history than prophecy. So they identify an east-west split in the old Roman empire. I see a north-south split; mostly north of Jerusalem and south of Jerusalem. Basically north of the Mediterranean and South of the Mediterranean; where the “kingdom of the south” is a revived Muslim Caliphate.

The point is that we’re likely going to see an end-time array of powers/nations arise — closer to prophecy — if not the exact match.

And that likely means the Muslim Brotherhood becomes a major player until the Sunni-Shia power struggle is resolved leaving basically the kingdom-of-the-south.

Concerning the link to the strange noises heard around the world:
the sounds in the Illinois portion are probably the sounds made by the wheels of the vehicle passing over a different kind of road texture (grade). I noticed when watching it that the sound started when on bridges, but ended abruptly when the bridge portion of the road joined the main road. It also happened in areas of road work. I’ve often had this happen when driving from one state to another (different road equipment) or over bridges.

Hi Tony,
As I understand the two sticks are the houses of Judah and Ephraim; Judah being of Jewish descent and Israel/Ephraim being the people Hosea said were divorced by God, being ‘not a people’, absorbed into the nations=gentiles (hosea 8) but there number of his children shall be as the sands of the sea. (aka gentiles: goyim, natiions: Christians) Hosea 1.

Strange sounds….Scott Bug on Believer’s underground says the noises are from post glacial rebound.
I am thinking that it is part of the theory (Stan Deyo, for just one) that the earth is expanding. I heard some odd sound last year like huge 18 wheelers going really fast on a freeway but within a block or two of my house! So, I went outside (it was about 2 a.m.) and still heard it but no sign of anything. I live deep in a residential neighborhood and there is no place for a big truck to even go except into Lake Michigan and no way one could travel any of the streets or roads in my town to make that kind of noise….the nearest freeway is a hundred miles away.
There are salt brine mines here (Morton/ Rohm and Hass) and a shipping channel …..maybe the noise was from the Lake or underground? It seemed like I could feel the rumble. It was also around the time the earth split on the other side of the lake. Hmmmm, both Stan and Scott could be right….think of it like a swelling in your body with the skin pulled taught….Only gigantic because it is the planet……kind of reverberates if you tap it?
Haven’t heard it since but then I am never up that late!

Elaine: I live near Windsor Ontario and there has been reported rumbling in the area for a few months now. They have sent scientists with seismographs to investigate. The reason why I comment here is that Windsor Salt mine is in the area…maybe there is a connection. Interesting!! Here is a link that has the rumbling, and also the “godzilla” noise. I thought that noise was reminiscent of “War of the Worlds” alien ships (just a little quieter)

Oh, Carol! The map in that video gave me chills….Scott Bug said something about the Niagara escarpment way back last year when the Michigan earth crack happened so I googled it then google earthed and both of those towns as well as my own side are all on it.

Oops, I was wrong, just pulled it up and Windsor isn’t on it but Scott says there is a vast “piping system” under there and maybe wherever the noises are there are voids that echo activity from it? The salt mine thing is very strange. Look and see what you think.
And then think about Stan Deyo speculating about that old hollow earth theory. The abyss may just be an abyss!

Ooooh yeah!! That map is very interesting. The Niagara Escarpment is supposedly one of those formations caused by the last iceage…I’m going to take a further look for noises around that area. We used to vacation up at the Blue Mountains in Collingwood, a ski town and summer retreat right on the escarpment at the bottom of Lake Huron…I bet I can find something from there…I’ll let you know!! Thanks for the link.

Make no mistake, NATO is simply not protecting the civilians in a defensive position, this is a well-orchestrated non-declared war to remove Gadhafi without putting our troops in danger.
The people there feel empowered because it’s them doing the fighting and are thankful for the NATO support.

The U.S. missed the Tunisian and Egyptian uprising and is trying to put the right face on U.S. diplomatic policy. The stink of it is, it was all pre-calculated, as in there would be no repercussions, it had nothing to do with human suffering or indignities, or else we would have a military presence in Darfur, or Somalia.
When all is said and done global bankers and the IMF show up with critical funding and economic plans that open up the country’s economy for financial control and plunder by the oil cartels.
Let me know when our country steps in to mitigate suffering in regions without some measure of tangible assets. This is so predictable and glaring.

Kind of makes you wonder what Assad was thinking when he started killing off protesters. Didn’t work for Mubarak, isn’t working out too well for Gadhafi, and won’t work for him either. It’s not going to work for Iran either but that’s another project entirely.
Now they will replace the dictatorship of Gadhafi with a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist state aligned with Iran. Just like Egypt, which now has become an increased threat to Israel; maybe this is what Obama has intended all along….Good job Mr. President. Looks like another job well done on the world stage. (Sarcasm off)

Syrians to Assad: ‘It’s Your Turn’
As Libyan rebels, shown above, near their goal of ousting dictator Muammar Qaddafi, mass protests erupt in Syria to demand removal of President Bashar Assad, whose government has reportedly killed over 2,000 in crackdown

As anyone considered the possibility that all dictators must be removed to make room for the One Big Dictator (The Antichrist)

Fanaticism of all creeds must be removed for the implementation of Socialistic democracy! This is the political agenda of the illuminati.(The Beast system of government)
The satanic core of the Antichrist is rooted in the Christian West.1Jn2:18,19.

John B….of course all of the despots who are causing such turmoil, (wars and rumors of) are all going to be quashed when the AC defeats them all and brings “peace”! Um, yeah, for a minute….3 1/2 years?

how do we listen to roz now? what time are you on? please,and thank you,is this the same roz that was on with matthew miller? do you know any thing about matthew? I hope he and his family are ok. cindy

When you consider weapons of mass destruction being transferred from Iraq to Syria there is virtually little or NO Chance that Iraq had a nuclear weapon or enough time to produce enough uranium for a nuclear weapon before Israel destroyed its nuclear facility. The same with Syria. Weapons potentially collected by Syria are most likely scud missles loaded with mustard gas. Saddam regularly used mustard gas on the Kurds.

War by September

Robert Baer has had a storied career, including a stint in Iraq in the 1990s where he organised opposition to Saddam Hussein. (He was recalled after being accused of trying to organise Saddam’s assassination.) Upon his retirement, he received a top decoration for meritorious service.

Baer is no ordinary CIA operative. George Clooney won an Oscar for playing a character based on Baer in the film Syriana (Baer also wrote the book).

He obviously won’t name many of his sources in Israel, the United States, and elsewhere, but the few he has named are all Israeli security figures who have publically warned that Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak are hell-bent on war.

[Baer] appeared on KPFK Los Angeles, warning that Israeli PM Netanyahu is “likely to ignite a war with Iran in the very near future.” It gets worse: “Masters asked Baer why the US military is not mobilising to stop this war from happening. Baer responded that the military is opposed, as is former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, who used his influence to thwart an Israeli attack during the Bush and Obama administrations. But he’s gone now and “there is a warning order inside the Pentagon” to prepare for war.” The punchline: “There is almost “near certainty” that Netanyahu is “planning an attack [on Iran] … and it will probably be in September before the vote on a Palestinian state. And he’s also hoping to draw the United States into the conflict“, Baer explained.”

While President Obama has not exactly been fully supportive of Israel (at least overtly), an attack on Iran by the Israelis would no doubt be considered by Iran as having been supported by the United States. That being the case, Iran would respond militarily against all US forces in the region, especially those in Iraq, at the first sign of any trouble. Subsequently, the U.S. would return fire en masse, perhaps even utilizing the nuclear option to incapacitate any possibility of an Iranian nuclear response.

What China would do is the unknown variable, but it is clear that the US and China are engaged in a covert war economically, financially and in cyberspace. The recent UN actions in Libya may have been sold to the world public as a peacekeeping mission, but one side issue that has remained in the background is China’s removal of some 30,000 workers from state sponsored oil facilities in the country as a result of the conflict. This leaves one to wonder whether the UN action was a veiled attempt at controlling the oil interests in North Africa. How long before the Chinese decide that their interests have been violated and they get involved militarily? Could an attack on Iran be the catalyst that brings China into the mix?

It is our opinion that what we have seen in the middle east since 2002, including the destabilization of governments in the region over the last 12 months, is a precursor to a war that will eventually encompass the entire world.

Whether this goes critical in September, or at some time in the future, is of no matter. War is coming to the world, as it always does when the economies of empires collapse and national interests over resources collide.

THANK YOU FOR BOTH THESE VIDEOS…I AM FORWARDING THEM TO MY UNSAVED SON. I PRAY, AND PLEASE PRAY WITH ME, THAT THE EVIL ONE DOES NOT FRUSTRATE OR STOP THE MESSAGE PRESENTED, AND THAT HIS EYES AND EARS AND HEART WILL BE OPEN TO RECEIVE THE TRUTH OF OUR GOD GIVEN THROUGH THESE VIDEOS!! THANK YOU AGAIN.

Thank you for putting up these videos, as Terry is one of the better Watchmen out there. I agree that this September bid for “Palestinian Statehood” is a “put up job” by the United Nimrods, the U.S. and The Arabs trying to eliminate Israel of the map of the Middle East and the world.
Too bad and so sad for them all that The God of Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob is luring the Nimrods, the U.S., and those Islamists into HIS trap! How like our God to use the same tactics that have always worked against His enemies and Israel’s!

These enemies will be destroyed, one way or the other, because it is they who have plotted against God and His people. He also shall utterly destroy their false idol demon “moon god”, because He has declared “Thou shall have no other gods before Me.” Just as Elijah HUMILIATED the “prophets” of Baal on Mt. Carmel in the “Big Showdown” where Baal came off looking like the NOTHING he really was, so it will be when God Almighty DESTROYS the armies of the Islamic hordes, “inner and outer circles” of Israel’s enemies
( Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38,39 ), that the realization of just Who our God truly IS will make the dreamed of “Islamic Caliphate” as flat as the proverbial pancake.

We may not know the day or the hour, but Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and the Saducees (The “religious leaders” of that day) for not being able to even discern the SEASON of His first coming, when it had already been predicted to the very DAY in the Old Testament. These leaders were Satan worshippers, anyway, and that it why Jesus DESPISED them, for He told them “You are of your father, the devil.”

Soon it will be self evident and all this speculation about the timing of the Lord`s coming will be over and only our foundation will matter like it always did in the last 2000 years of the Bride`s history/the (corporate) body of Christ on the Earth.

Thanks for keeping us updated on Firecharger, Bozz! ;-D High five, low five! … and another high five! Ha! … less than a month to see what rattles and rolls :-O I can’t even keep count anymore for all that is in store for September.

I believe that those who know the word of God will know the deception. Those who have a relationship with Jesus Christ will know. There will come a time, when things will be evident to those who are in the Spirit. Even if they hold on to different views.

Bozz, you final statement here is what I believe to be true “evident to those who are in the Spirit” being key. If we have our Spiritual armour on we will be prepared…
BTW did you notice you final comment at 16. was done at 11:11 am…have your heard all the talk about people noticing this time frequently. Not trying to start another “on and on”, just a “did you see that”?? Have an excellent day in Lord!!

Yes I did Carol. I have also talked to people (believers) and yes, they say that happens to them also, they see the number 11 everywhere from time to time. Does this happen to you also? Do you notice this in your life?

Btw, In Exodus for example there are ten plagues, but the the 10th plague is actually the 11th sign, because the 1st sign is not included into plagues (When Aaron`s rod is turned into a serpent and swallows other serpents). And the 10th plague judgment is in the 11th chapter of Exodus. 11 is the number of judgment apparently.

Yes, I see it all the time, that and 3:33, and 12:12…I never made anything of that 11:11 until I heard Derek and Sharon Gilbert talking about it quite a while ago. That was an eerie moment. Thanks for Btw in Exodus…the Bible is deep!! How about this one….
John 6:66 “From that time many of his disciples when back and walked no more with Him”. I think the grey areas are becoming less and less and the black and white is more and more!! Thanks Bozz.

– protestors not armed like in Libya
– Assad still has military backing, but most military is Sunni not Alawi Shia
– Iran is a strong ally
– protestors all over the mid-east may get a morale boost from Libya

Thank you, L.A. for this timely commentary, and I AGREE with all you have said. I see this as the provocation for the “inner circle” Psalm 83 war that Bill Salus did such a fine job of describing in his book, “Isralestine”, especially as Syria is definitely one of the main “confederates ” mentioned in this Psalm who are plotting to erradicate Israel off the face of the earth. Add to this Isaiah 17:1, and we get a real “connect the dots” picture of what is about to EXPLODE on this earth in the Middle East, especially as Israel is smack dab in the middle of the maelstrom.

Psa 83:1 A Song or Psalm of Asaph. Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
Psa 83:2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
Psa 83:3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
Psa 83:4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
Psa 83:5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
Psa 83:6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;
Psa 83:7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;
Psa 83:8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.
Psa 83:9 Do unto them as unto the Midianites; as to Sisera, as to Jabin, at the brook of Kison:
Psa 83:10 Which perished at Endor: they became as dung for the earth.
Psa 83:11 Make their nobles like Oreb, and like Zeeb: yea, all their princes as Zebah, and as Zalmunna:
Psa 83:12 Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession.
Psa 83:13 O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.
Psa 83:14 As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire;
Psa 83:15 So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.
Psa 83:16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.
Psa 83:17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:
Psa 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

***Note: Psalm 83:8 “Assur” is Old “Assyria”, which is modern day Syria!!****

Did you watch the video posted in your” Sunday Bun” yesterday, called “Why the Rapture Must Happen Before the Tribulation” ?

If not, please do so, because this man said that “Syria is the “nexus”, the “lynchpin” in the Middle East as regards Israel.
He also said this in the beginning:

“Gaza…Libya…Syria…”See Ya!” ” in reference to the soon coming Rapture of the Bride of Christ.

I am listening to Rozz’s show with LA right now and can’t get into their chat because I took myself off of Facebook. Just wanted to say what a great show it is L.A. So happy you are supporting Rozz too. She is precious and so are you. Thank you L.A. for all you do. Bless you and your family and your ministry,

Kimberly and all; please understand that I do not judge any person on this blog. Jesus is the Judge…….

we all believe what we perceive to be the Truth. or do we!

To be sure: the Holy Spirit is not the spirit of confusion.

The Apostles doctrine is Spirit breathed and is in perfect alignment to that of the Corner-Stone (Jesus)

Jesus never said that he was coming in secret for part of His people and seven years latter coming a second time for the Jews.

Nowhere in scripture is it taught that there is two second comings of Jesus.
STUDY THE WORD not MEN.

He is coming once to Judge all

Kimberly; I grasp your anticipation to see our Lord Amen. I Love the Lord as you do and there is no hatred in me towards any man even my enemies.

Servants like Hopeful love the Truth and want to protect it from the viles of the devil. That is a honourable thing before the Lord to defend the faith

None on this Blog know it all, I am the first to acknowledge that. But somethings are divinely revealed and often time it is hard to place it before others in a manner that will not offend that was the dilemma of Jesus and that of His blessed Apostles.

Do not be Quick to judge that which is not the norm rather pray that the lord will lead in the wisdom of understanding.

We must remember that Jesus also loved as Apostle Paul put it in Galatians 4:16

16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

People are settled in their belief concerning prophecy. The truth will be evident in the near future. I believe you can not go beyond 2 Thessalonians 2:3 which cancels out the false pre-trib teaching. The great tribulation lasts for 3,5 years (and is shortened) not 7 years. (And I believe that it`s not the pope, because the pope gets destroyed with his false church revealed in Revelation 17:16 -17 and Revelation 2:22 and Revelation 14:8 and other places and the kingdom is given over to the beast (the Wicked one) of 2 Thessalonians 2:8 (who will be the image of the beast which the woman rode). Unless the pope survives and somehow becomes the Wicked one… That makes the pope just one of the many anti-christs. Revelation 17 tells that the beast destroys the Mother harlot but the Lord consumes the Wicked one (who destroyed the Mother harlot) with the spirit of His mouth and destroys him with the brightness of His coming.

We must also be aware that there are many masonic pastors out there (Ezekiel 8 type priests). It would be very telling if people would know what they teach on the rapture. They most likely teach it on purpose with an agenda on their mind.

“It was when Pope Paul III convened the Council of Trent that the church formally addressed the protestant reformation with edicts, dogmas and doctrines. A disciple of Ignatius, Francisco Ribera came up with a theory that would take the attention off the Pope as being the Anti-Christ and put it on some future individual. This was the beginning of the Rapture doctrine. The Jesuits infiltrated the protestant movement, developed protestant theology, and purposely mis interpreted scriptures relating to Bible prophecy. They also controlled the educational system and bribe and blackmailed governments of Europe and America to promote their agenda. Two other groups that were instrumental the origin and development of the rapture theory were the Knights Templars (Masons) and the Knights of Malta (Knights of Columbus).

Barbara Aho said in her article (The Merovingian Dynasty) “it was also the The avowed objective of the Templars was to protect the Christians who came to visit the Holy Places: their secret objective was the re-building of the Temple of Solomon on the model prophesied by Ezekiel. “This re-building, formally predicted by the Judaizing Mystics of the earlier ages, had become the secret dream of the Patriarchs of the Orient. The Temple of Solomon, re-built and consecrated to the Catholic worship would become, in effect, the Metropolis of the Universe.”

In my up coming blog I will go into more detail about how the Jesuits and the Illuminati set about to implement the Rapture theory to achieve their goal.. Protestant churches, Evangelical seminaries, and bible talking and Bibleprobe preachers like John Hagee, Jack van Impe, Jack Hayford, TD Jakes, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Pat Robinson, Creflo Dollar, Bishop Charles Blake, Billy Graham, and masons who promote the rapture have been seduced by Jesuits theology and manipulated by the kabbalist practitioners, thus they are part of the world-wide Anti-Christ conspiracy.”

I speak all this in the spirit of 1 Corinthians 13:9-10 and I also believe that Psalm 91 (specifically verses 5-8) is yet future prophecy that will literally be fulfilled in the surviving remnant. I see this in Revelation 3:10 while others see pre-trib rapture…

Jesus also prayed:

John 17:15

15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

He prayed this for the first generation of disciples who were also living in the expectancy of the Lord coming back in their life time. Unless we are different then they were and special because we are the last generation, that prayer also counts for us.

Isaiah 33:14-16

14The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

15He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

16He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.

Yes, we are separate and distinct from the fig tree Israel (old covenant) but we are also grafted in on the olive tree Israel (new covenant).

Isaiah 9:6

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

We all can be sincerely wrong about something. They are not all knowing. I am not all knowing Kimberly. I do not call them false teachers. Chuck Missler always warns about going to scriptures for ourselves and find out for ourselves. They are Bereans with their own view.

Phillippians 2:12 says that we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Chuck Missler and others who I like very much (but don`t agree with on the pre-trib rapture view) is not responsible for mine, nor for your salvation. He points to Jesus Christ and to the written word He left us with so that we can learn and grow for ourselves but in unity of the corporate body of Christ. I always look above all the division that debates like this bring and dissociate myself from it. I look at all the views and compare them to scripture and go with the one, whom I believe is according to truth. I debate and present what I believe is true and never put down others for their view but I speak what I have to. If people get offended because of this, so be it. We can discuss things like this in perfect brotherly love. There were people like Dr. Walter Martin for example (who is with the Lord now), who believed post-trib and some other man I forgot who believed pre-trib, they had heated debates, but they always did it in brotherly love. And so can we. And so I do.

48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

49I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Barnes´ notes on the bible:

I am, come … – The result of my coming will be that there will be divisions and contentions. He does not mean that he came “for” that purpose, or that he “sought” and “desired” it; but that such was the state of the human heart, and such the opposition of people to the truth, that that would be the “effect” of his coming. See the notes at Matthew 10:34.

Fire – Fire, here, is the emblem of discord and contention, and consequently of calamities. Thus it is used in Psalm 66:12; Isaiah 43:2.

And what will I … – This passage might be better expressed in this manner: “And what would I, but that it were kindled. Since it is “necessary” for the advancement of religion that such divisions should take place; since the gospel cannot be established without conflicts, and strifes, and hatreds, I am even desirous that they should come. Since the greatest blessing which mankind can receive must be attended with such unhappy divisions, I am willing, nay, desirous that they should come.” He did not wish evil in itself; but, as it was the occasion of good, he was desirous, if it “must” take place, that it should take place soon. From this we learn:

1. That the promotion of religion may be expected to produce many contests and bitter feelings.

2. That the heart of man must be exceedingly wicked, or it would not oppose a work like the Christian religion.

3. That though God cannot look on evil with approbation, yet, for the sake of the benefit which may grow out of it, he is willing to permit it, and suffer it to come into the world.

Bon, consider this. The last supper was given on Passover and included the blood of Christ as the wine given for the covering over of our sins. Now let’s consider the Passover and its importance shall not be overlooked.

Exodus 12:13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.

In other words, when we wash ourselves in the blood, our temple is presented to the Lord as faithful and we shall be deemed worthy to “escape all that is about to happen” which is God’s wrath spelled out in Revelation. We shall be passed over. Also note that the Israelites were subjected to the harsh treatment of pharoah (I.e. the first part of the tribulation) but not the plagues (I.e. the second part of the tribulation).

So you think “pray to escape” means “pray for safety or immunity from” ?

Here’s what I believe:

There are birth-pangs that happen before the GREAT tribulation. The GREAT tribulation is the DARK DAYS involving the short reign of the Antichrist. These dark days cannot happen as long as the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) is here. The restrainer must lift first. And when His spirit lifts, those who adhere to and are full of that spirit will go with, HENCE the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. OIL is SPIRIT. It will not be by works or restraining yourself from sin, those who worship him in SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH. Not FEAR and subsequent servitude.

I know LA thinks the restrainer is an arch angel, but it must be the light of the Spirit who came to earth at the Pentecost. That GREAT darkness cannot come upon earth as long as the LIGHT is in the world.

Yeshua promised that he would never leave us and he sent the comforter to dwell with us. That is precisely why I believe the rapture will happen. When he lifts his spirit, he will not leave those who cleave to him and his SPIRIT!

When he first came, he sent his Spirit when he ascended to facilitate the age of evangelism. That age is over. The Spirit will ascend before he comes back in like exchange. Do you see what I’m saying?

Sorry if I’m sticking my nose in here, but I’ve been following this discussion. Bon, you last point about the restrainer is very compeling…I have always been unsure who or what the “restrainer” would be…I was taught years ago that it would be the Holy Spirit, then other teachings say, how can it be the Holy Spirit, who will be there to indwell new believers? It is a Scripture I have not come to any conclusion on. Thanks, enjoying the back and forth here.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-6 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. ”

I have also heard the restrainer be equated with the “church” and when that, at the rapture, is taken out of the way, then the “lawless one” will be revealed. 2 Thess 2 verse one Paul points directly to “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering unto Him”…is that meaning that “we are gathered” before “the lawless one is revealed”?

If you go back and read what I said about the removal of the restrainer coinciding with the removal of those cleaving TO that spirit, you will see what I am trying to illustrate about the catching away. Its the same as when He a-scended and the Spirit De-scended. The Spirit (restrainer) A-scends and then Yeshua returns again to dispatch in the final battle. He will then reign for ever and EVER.

There will be a short space of time between this exchange. The TRIBULATION.

Bon, no offense, but you are giving me your opinion and not scripture, nor are you addressing scripture that directly contradicts what you are saying in 2 Thessalonians, which also deals with the restrainer and it is not the Holy Spirit in verse 2:5-8

Hopeful-Watcher…yes of course, I was so “caught up” with the restrainer I didn’t read correctly, or your posting of 2 Thess 2….thank you. But, would that be your conclusion regarding the restrainer being the church? (maybe I’m getting lazy and not re-reading all comments, sorry)

You are right. There WILL be an assembly at the final battle.
ἐπισυναγωγῆς indicates an assembly.

I guess what it boils down to is that you are stressing scriptures that pertain to the return of Christ to the earth, but are ignoring scripture that pertains to the catching up/removal of the restrainer.

I have often heard warnings to not get involved in a PRE-POST battle. I have to conclude that the POST stance ignores the complete picture and many other scriptures.

Im not being hateful to you at all. I would like you to escape with me! I would just urge you to look at ALL of it. If you are content to stay for the dark days, then so be it. I am a realist like you, but Im not going to be afraid to believe in a happier alternative when scripture is there to support it.

Do you sincerely believe that if I don’t believe in pretrib, that I won’t “escape with you”? Talk about putting our doctrines over the word of God. Jesus will gather me when He gathers me because I loved Him, was obedient to Him and served Him, not because I put my faith in the doctrines of men. And if that means it happens before I think it will, then so be it. I would rather be pleasantly surprised by Jesus than woefully surprised by Satan.

This article talks about how what is being restrained is Jesus’s return and not the man of sin. The restrainer is the fact the man of sin and the apostasy are what is holding back Jesus’s return because they have not happened yet.

No Hopeful, YOU seem to not want to believe that you will escape with me.I have pointed to plenty of scripture reference that you should be familiar with without me listing the chapter and verse (the wise and foolish virgins for instance). Im not trying to be insulting, but you leave me no choice when you accuse me of not referencing the scriptures. I did not at any time refer to any preacher or “doctrine of man”.

There has to be a reason he commands us to watch and be ready. Im not going to try to post scripture after scripture to change your mind. You have access to a bible. So here’s one and I will agree to disagree.

Matthew 24:42-44

“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

I ask you, how could you MISS it if it were during or after the TRIBULATION?!

We are told to be watchful so we are not complacent. The gathering is not a train pulling out of a train station, where if you don’t get on platform nine and three quarters you miss the Hogwarts Express.

And the pretrib doctrine IS a doctrine of man. It is antichrist. Pretrib doctrine places in jeopardy those who might believe in a false rapture event… one staged by the antichrist. So, if you are content on agreeing to disagree on such a fundamental elements that will be utilized to deceive men from God than we are in trouble.

The pretrib doctrine is the delusion that Paul is referring to. “They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”

I pity you Hopeful. How would any believer be “complacent” during or after the GREAT TRIBULATION?! “It is antichrist”?!!

I believe POST trib is a doctrine of man designed to keep men like you from “expecting and looking”. It doesnt even make common sense.You are reading things into scripture that arent there. YOU are the one referencing other mens teachings…And “Harry Potter”…

Jesus said “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.” John 5:39-40

Jesus said “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

Jesus said “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.” John 10: 27-29

Psalm 25:9 “The humble He guides in justice, and the humble He teaches His way.”

Psalm 32:8 “I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide you with My eye.”

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

I am not even going to defend myself (about the rapture)… but I’ll say this: I love Jesus, no one is regarded higher in my heart, He reign’s as King there. I believe that Jesus is God in the flesh, that He died for my sins, that He rose again, and that He will return again. Tell me where I’m wrong there? … and tell me where it says in the Bible that your view of the timing of the rapture is vital in regards to salvation? I go to Him to learn, not from man (which you wrongfully assume, JohnB)… and it’s been like that for years, so Jesus is my Teacher. And since I don’t learn from man, all of your passionate words that the pre-trib rapture is false falls dead in my spirit because His Spirit is not confirming that as His Truth. I am not troubled nor am I shaking in my boots over your warnings… because they aren’t coming from God! I have seen time and time again some of you defend with allllllll your might a certain rapture view, and not once lift up and exalt the character of our holy God. I was sharing in the hope that I have with others who have this hope… yet you all feel like you must do everyone a favor and re-save the saved! I’ve tested the things you have said John B, and I cast them off. They don’t contain the Truth, therefore I won’t except it. If I’ve learned one thing in my life.. it’s to look for the heart of God in people, not their brains. Yet, I respect you otherwise, JohnB, (very much actually)… which just makes this more of a sad thing. I pray for you JohnB and I pray blessings for you.

I’m trusting in the God whose fist I happen to be resting in, and I’m going to continue to hope in His appearing with those who hope. No one can rob me or others who Jesus has given this hope to, no one. Keep trying and it won’t work. You’ll wear yourselves out! Our hope isn’t in Harold Camping (that’s for DANG sure) … our hope isn’t seeing Jesus off in a desert somewhere…. our hope is in Him catching away His bride. ( Do you guys realize how beautiful those who trust in Him are…? How beautiful they are… to Him? They are precious in His eyes. ) What a waste… what a waste to waste time on this. There is so much more good that can come from fellow-shipping with brothers and sisters in the Lord, but it gets squandered here. Sadness.

Lastly, (Proverbs 13:12 ..Hope deferred makes the heart sick) … what if I’m wrong? Will I be sad? Yes. Will I be utterly destroyed with devastation? Absolutely NO stinking way!! ( Proverbs 12:25… but a good word makes it glad). What is my good word? It comes from the mouth of Jesus: “.. and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Matthew 28:20 I trust in Jesus, not myself!

The timing IS important to salvation, because we are expressly warned that there WILL be some who come in His name and that we are not to be deceived.

So that you can count on. So when a messiah figure comes with wonders and he looks and acts and sounds like your beloved Jesus, than you just might be deceived into believing that he is your beloved Jesus, when he is not.

But if you know that your beloved Jesus will not come until all of these things happen first, then you will not be deceived. You see, he isn’t delaying His arrival because he doesn’t care. He is delaying His arrival so that we won’t be deceived into believing another to be the Messiah.

Wow! Hopeful.. just wow. :-( … I’m not even going to talk to you about this anymore to prevent us from chasing our tails. Your theology is not right based off “the timing IS important to salvation.” You didn’t read what I wrote.. pointless to talk about this with you, regrettably.

Hi Kimberly; I am not trying t squash your hope at all It is just the Timing of our being caught up.

You see; I am prepared to endure unto the end even if it is dying by the hand of antichrist.

I don’t know about you, but believe me, there are many many christians that are deluded that this position of possible death will not happen to them because they will escape.

That is my only concern for pointing out the Timing of the catching up which is our blessed hope. Sometimes I think that you misunderstand what I say.
I do not doubt your Love for our Lord nor that of the majority on this Blog.

I do not get upset if you or anybody disregard what i share. Yes we are to judge all things but in the end Jesus will judge the false teachers and prophets, those who have come in his name deceiving many.
I assure you that I will not be among that lot.

What I have been freely Given I freely Give…… To Love Jesus is to love the truth by the Spirit of truth in which I Stand.

If I was to share with you some thing shown to me you could not handle it and would most probably be enraged at me. so; I restrain and tread with caution not to be a stumbling block to any man. surely that is the motivation of Love.

I ask you yo pray for wisdom! is not that what Apostles James asks us all to do. But you get upset! Why? Have I ask you to do something contrary to The Apostle? I assure you That I would never share anything that would jeopardize my standing in Jesus and the Apostolic foundation.

JohnB, I am increasingly becoming very sad for you. You do not see that you speak with pride, JohnB. You assume to know what I do or don’t pray to my Father before I read His Word (and from what I know, only God is omniscient and all-knowing) Do you hang out with me and Jesus when I speak to Him? … Do you hear every word that comes from my heart that reaches to His ears…? I really don’t think you do. I’m not going to defend myself because Jesus is my defense (thank You Jesus!).

You judge my wisdom based off of your standards of wisdom, in which I am found a fool again in your eyes (thank God!) … because I don’t serve, bow down, or worship John B, I worship, revere, and seek Jesus Christ who alone knows all. Please remain restrained and tread cautiously with your special wisdom because the heart in which you speak to me and others is from a voice I don’t recognize. The only reason I’d be enraged if it’s against the wisdom of Jesus.

It’s not your views on anything that upsets me, it’s the manner in how you handle it… Proverbs 26:7. Since I don’t recognize your voice, I will not hear you on this matter anymore… you and Hopeful both assume things which is foolishness. (“Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers”)…

Your views don’t sadden me, it’s this divisiveness and scattering of the sheepfold that saddens me, it’s your boasting spirit that saddens me. Have you not seen nor read when Jesus Himself did not want to endure the suffering of the Cross… yet you flaunt your eagerness to die by the hands of the antichrist? This… this is the kind of thing that saddens me. I pray for the love of Christ to dwell and move in you, JohnB…. that He would love in you and through You, that you would love your brothers and sisters as Christ loves them… that you would handle your brothers and sisters with much love and much care, in grace and Truth.

My heart breaks for you… I’m not against you, JohnB (I’m so much more FOR you).

Kimberly: it is always the last resort is it not! to justify ones position by asserting that pride is my motivation for sharing my views. so now i am posturing a devilish character. such was the religious in their accusation of The Lord.

Regardless of the fact that Jesus words even scattered those who were close to him! that also you say that i am doing, causing division.
All because I speak the Truth in Love. Truth most often gives offence. Christ was crucified after Pilate asked him What is truth. Devilish lies do not lead one to the cross Truth does.

John B, No I’m not coming thru the back door, but in your opinion you might think I am.

I have read the back and forth on this for years here, not commenting, and not wishing to get into unfruitful argument. I happen to share Kimberly’s view on expecting the Lord’s appearance at any time and I can see she was trying to encourage others with this. If you do not share this view perhaps you should refrain (in love) from comment? We all already know you believe a pre-trib is from the evil one, but many have realized that it is derived in the scriptures and not an RC conspiracy.

It may be that I do not come across this way but I am trying to be kind and loving in my reply and not cause any more strife on this matter. God bless!

Thanks JohnB… for the permission to pray for you, I’m on it! :-) … and, now we part ways, JohnB, because I have some rejoicing to do with those who hope!

GT… I knew where you were coming from, that you aren’t against JohnB, and that you weren’t just there to stir the pot. Thank you for the support and the understanding heart that you have. Let’s continue in our evil pre-trib hopes (AND …let’s try to get as many as we can on board with us, Muhahahaha!!!) and prepare for the day we get to see the One who we have loved without seeing!!! :-O …. YAY!!! :-D

“… for He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.” John 6:35-36.

Kimberly, neither john nor I take any pleasure in how this discussion transpired and I can assure you that both of us have engaged it with love and compassion to those we share it with. Now it would appear you are taking great pleasure in your apparent success in having the righteous and Jesus centered position. Aside from who is right or wrong, I implore you to examine this spirit of braggadocious gloating. It is disconcerting. May the peace of Jesus cover you.

No Strife with me GT; I like discussing the Bible and can do so in a civil manner. I am not asking anyone to agree with me. I am only putting before others what I am thoroughly convinced of. believe me friend, it is with much trembling and Fear that I do it. I learned that The Apostles of our Lord only taught knowledge grounded in the Truth. I say nothing if in doubt. That is, i do not go much on speculation specially in relation to prophecy. we will all give account for Idle words spoken. even more so false Teachers who Teach falsehood in His name. Think about that! The Tying of falsehood to The name above all names is blasphemous in deed. so I tread very carefully with my words.

Yes, we will definitely continue to obey Jesus Christ when He says to “pray that you are counted worthy to escape ALL these things!” :-D The Truth sets us free, does it not? :-)

I think that the enemy is FREAKING out, because his time is so short, so very short and he’s ticked off… he has been ever since he was cast down. Well, the enemy can see that God is going to make His move soon, by rapturing the very thing that contains His light, and His salt… His bride. Just a little salt preserves a lot. Just a pin-prick of light irritates the crud out of the enemy and blinds him to where he can’t wreak havoc like he wants to… yet. So the enemy is licking his chops for the chance to take his place and let loose on the earth with his lies and wonders. In order to keep the focus from Christ and His Word and His salvation and His grace… the enemy will take credit for the rapture with the ufo/abduction lie, which we ease the fears of those who knew better, and they will turn their souls to the man with the false-answers, the anti-christ, where the focus and praise will be directed towards him. So, yeah, false explanation indeed! It’s a snare! But anywho… that’s my thought. My little opinion. :-) But the Truth be known, if we are going to be abducted by anyone… it’s going to be by the very hand of our God who we love and serve. For those that don’t believe in the pre-trib will still be raptured… but will they be prepared to stand before the Son of Man, to look into His eyes, and not be ashamed? I shake with reverent fear of my God and my love for Him, to take Him at His Word, to be ready at any minute to meet Him.. anything less of getting ready when He says that He is coming quickly… would be disobedience.

Bon! You’re rad! We are filled with joy, are we not!?! To be expecting, longing, groaning for our Lord!?!? I’m excited! Is this joy not from our Father getting us ready to see our Creator… the One who knows every thought and every desire of our heart!?!?! It is! And I’m so super glad that you are waiting for Him too…

“Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.” 2 Timothy 4:8

Bon, let us “LOVE” His appearing… and not get caught up in the disputes. For those of us who love His appearing.. we need to encourage one another! :-D May the Lord cause His face to shine upon you, Bon!

Well I finally got a full night’s sleep. My members do not feel like they will fall off and my head is back on the stump!

On another note…this is one hopping place. Yeeha! Full bore discussions and skirmishes all in the name of the Lord. I trust it pleases Him well that we are studying in fellowship.

The Garden of Eden is still a mystery to me and I will not avert my gaze from each verse until I understand (unless the Father says, “Lay off!”). So many heathen quote these passages like some kind of fairy tale. BUT it features the creation of man and the events around God’s greatest work. So the Nephelim, Raphaim, their tribes and offspring who settled throughout Israel and scattered into the world have a beginning. It is interesting to note that God placed Cherubims at the East of the Garden after Adam and Eve’s trangression, to keep man out and protect the tree of life. Gen 3:24.

We need to learn about these two trees (the good one and the bad one). And the Serpent, if it was not on its belly until God banished it was on legs? Was kind of beast was it? Was the tree satan as the Pastor Matthews believes? The tree of life, is this Jesus? I am a literalist so i am willing to see the tree as a tree, but…I can’t help think “that eating a fruit would signal knowledge” is another parable. So the fruit is in my thoughts. Perhaps all of this is beyond our understanding and we are not to know until we join our Father. The key here is the first grand disobedience that caused the fall of man, our lives to be shortened and our souls to be sinful. I know I am sinful and I tame my fallen nature frequently.

Can anyone recommend a learned Christian who has done some work here, seeking the Hebrew root? One thing for sure, we thirst!

Be loving, be gentle peeps as we go on this journey in the body of Christ. Think Jesus. Answer a question with a question. Or a parable. Or a gentle demeanor. WWJD. Love to all.

The Cypress Tree

P.S. Yep LA, I cannot send email money internationally. Working on PP. Anyone in US can send you email money–so easy and fast.

Forgot to remind that Lucifer/satan was a cherubim. So makes sense that a naughty cherubim made his way into the garden since God placed the good cherubims to guard the east end. BTW Why just the east? My head spins with questions…

I judge no one on this blog. Without a doubt we all love the Lord and are eager to see him. I also am a lover and seeker of truth and will speak it with boldness and confidence.

Here is an interesting perspective by way of example for us to consider. We would all agree Harold Camping has been giving non-scriptural doctrines. But I would guess that he in fact loves the Lord and is eager to be with Him. Harold may even have the faith and discipline to alter his path before he is led completely astray. The greater tragedy is not Harold, but it is all of the lukewarm Christians that he has planted the seeds of false teachings into their hearts who may not be strong enough to overcome. This is the danger and why we must stick to the word of God and not add to it. Jesus has not called the righteous, but He has called sinners.

Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, no-trib whichever…the Lord made a covenant with us. We are saved, we will be with Him. Full stop. Yes, it would be nice to avoid the battle. But if we are meant to be here, we will console and comfort in Jesus name throughout. We are soldiers in Christ and must wear the full armor; this is the clear word of God. I am prepared either way and do not doubt His covenant with me, either way.

When He comes, “as a thief in the night”, this is crunch time. No more excuses. Anyone who is not saved will be saved by God’s exceeding grace and mercy. I don’t see many exceptions though. This is the key moment in God’s history–not the rapture.

We must watch Libya. Gaddafi has overcome the NATO terrorists, it is reported today.

I wonder if the Syrian leader has in fact killed 2,000 i.e. what portion of them has been killed by secret agents.
The world is a stage for Satan.

Obama/Clinton colluding with Turkey, demanding an apology from Netanyahu/Israel for protecting its shores from armaments last year: this could be the final act in the play. September 20 UN resolution is a key date.

Frankly, moving in on a nation for an apology is ridiculous.
Israel has the most sophisticated air defense in the world and has showed restraint against its oppressors for a long time. I see a build-up of a ground campaign around Israel by NATO, CIA, the robber barons–the serpent personified.

Question never answered by the world:
Why can’t the Islamic nations who possess enormous lands throughout the middle east not take the Palestinians in? I believe the clerics leave them on Gaza to be victimized with each of their own provocations, to ferment hate against tiny Israel. It is a charade when you look at it. God gave the land to Israelites before time was numbered. What’s with 1967? Really!!! Arrrgh! Such a timeless lie by Satan.

TCT,
“Gaddafi has overcome the NATO terrorists”??? I see news stories that it is the other way around or at least he is losing ground in Tripoli…http://watch.org/
Do you have the link to your info that you reference?

My take at this time is that we are being played/duped from both sides (East/West, Judeo-Christian/Muslim) and that this Israeli-Arab conflict is being fomented by the political influence wielded by the principalities and powers of this world to move us closer toward a one world system.http://threeworldwars.com/world-war-3/ww3.htm
This would accommodate the possible Psalm 83 conflict and Ezekiel 38 their after with the Isaiah 17 prophecy against Damascus somewhere in there.
Yet, YHVH is still sovereign and it’s amazing that what is meant for evil He uses for good! HalleluYah!!!

Hi Tony, the story was well written by John Paul Watson i believe at infowars.com. That in fact, Gaddafi had pushed back the elite sponsored side. Yes, this could reverse.
And indeed the bankers play both sides with a Hegelian dialectic.

Just my two cents. Hopeful, you asked what believers had ever been removed from tribulation? Well, Noah and Lot. Was Jesus hinting at that when He said just as in the days of Noah, and as in the days of Lot? As believers, we do go through some terrible trials and hardship. But we are not destined for the Wrath of God. I believe the tribulation is God’s Wrath being poured out (see book of Revelation) and the Bride of Christ is not under His Wrath. I believe when He says escape, He means escape and to stand before the Son of Man. I know we will have to agree to disagree, but I once believed as you did. Now I am looking for Him to rescue those who are His from the coming wrath.

Both Noah and Lot were removed from the final wrath of destruction, of which The Apostles paralleled as the coming wrath of the day of the Lord, when Jesus is revealed from heaven in flaming Fire. That is when we are caught up!.

Jesus said to watch and be ready, repeatedly, because we know not the day or hour of His coming for us, He repeatedly stressed that. Not, be ready after the tribulation, or after the desolation of the temple, but to watch and be ready for Him. How can we go wrong if we are obeying what He said and always watching and being ready for Him?

Courtney; Jesus can return at any time. indeed that is what we are to be ready for. Where have I ever said that it is after the tribulation. I believe that He will be returning in the end of the age. can any one pinpoint the beginning of the tribulation of the age. I believe we are in it! The heavens and the earth are shaking!!!! I believe that His return is soon. That is what i believe. and I am ready, I have been ready since i first believed on Him. What if I died before the tribulation, Then I would still be caught up would not I as I was ready.

God bless John B

why do the majority of believers concern themselves with the tribulation if they say they will not be here?

Something to consider. Rapture, by how it is viewed is an event of the individual being taken up to be with the Lord. By this definition is could be said that Elijah was raptured and so was our Lord Jesus.

What if the concept of rapture is not a single event in the future, but is an ongoing process of all those who are born again get raptured to the Lord? This would mean the dead in Christ rise first as they have already risen. They would return with the angels at Jesus second coming.