DO NOT REPLY TO BE REMOVED! All this does is confirm your email address.
They might stop sending you email, but they will then sell your address to
another spammer who will send you more.

Complaining to the ISP and to orbs and blackhole (as spamcop and samspade do
for you) is the only way to stop this.

You might also voice your displeasure to the staff of open systems by
sending a note to them. I have CC'd all of their email addresses that I was
able to find in this message. If all 1900 members of the PICList just hit
reply to all on this post and type in how they feel about spammers...

Excellent point! spamcop.com has a field to add in another email address to
send the complaint to and this would be a perfect place to copy in the email
address(s) of the company whose product is being linked to by open-systems.
This reports the spam to every person who has any ability to pressure the
spammer into shutting it down: The ISP, the ISP organizations, the
advertisers, and the spam blocking services.

PLEASE! All concerned PICListers: Do this if you are receiving these emails.
If we don't stop SPAM as an effective advertising measure, who will? And if
we don't do it now, when will there be a better time? This problem is just
going to get worse if we don't kill it.

I've added the email addresses of the companies that open-systems has
spammed me on behalf of to the cc in this email. If the 1900 members of the
PICList just hit reply-to-all and voice their displeasure on this issue,
maybe some changes will be made.

>
> Excellent point! spamcop.com has a field to add in another email address to
> send the complaint to and this would be a perfect place to copy in the email
> address(s) of the company whose product is being linked to by open-systems.
> This reports the spam to every person who has any ability to pressure the
> spammer into shutting it down: The ISP, the ISP organizations, the
> advertisers, and the spam blocking services.
>
> PLEASE! All concerned PICListers: Do this if you are receiving these emails.
> If we don't stop SPAM as an effective advertising measure, who will? And if
> we don't do it now, when will there be a better time? This problem is just
> going to get worse if we don't kill it.
>
> I've added the email addresses of the companies that open-systems has
> spammed me on behalf of to the cc in this email. If the 1900 members of the
> PICList just hit reply-to-all and voice their displeasure on this issue,
> maybe some changes will be made.
>
> ---
> James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
> spamBeGonejamesnewtonSTOPspamEraseMEpiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
> PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org
>

You need to read the instructions and apply for an authorization code. It
will be emailed to you with a link in it to click. When you do that, you
will see the form to paste in the header and email body.

I should also mention that filing this complaint DOES confirm your email
address to the spammer and may (probably will) result in your receiving more
spam from other spammers. But you will have done "a good thing" (tm) by
helping to shut this (very offensive) spammer down.

No, we are not going to send you a list of PICList members so that you can
remove them from your list, because we have no reason to believe that you
will. And even if you do, you may sell or give that list to another spammer.
If our members wish to take that risk, they can decide individually.

You're spammers. You mined some website or archive that had email addresses
of PICList members. Now our members have the option of informing your
advertisers (who's email addresses I have listed below) that unsolicited
email is not appreciated and using services likehttp://www.spamcop.net andhttp://www.samspade.net
we can tell your ISP and your ISP's ISP and orbs and blackhole, etc... that
you are a bulk emailer. I've encouraged them to do so.

I've also placed all these email addresses on a special page that I keep on
my site for email mining robots. I encourage other web-masters and
web-mistresses to do the same. Hopefully, they will get some of their own
junk.

Find a less invasive way of marketing your wares. Oh, and by the way, since
I'm in California, where is the ADV: tag in your subject lines?

Section 17538.4 requires all spam messages to be clearly labeled "ADV:"
(and, for adult-oriented material, to be labeled "ADV:ADLT") in the subject
line.

Also, sender must inform the recipient, as the first text of the e-mail
message (in a font just as large as that of the rest of the message), of the
ability to be removed; your text is at the end.

Maybe if enough people start filling out complaints against spammers like
you, the attorney general (Mr. Bill Lockyer) who has ignored it so far, will
actually start prosecuting spam.http://caag.state.ca.us/piu/mailform.htm

Like you I have also noticed an increase in SPAM. It never used to worry me
but now it seems most of my incoming mail is not directly related so I
installed a program called Omnipage MailWall and it has reduce a fair bit of
it. I have heard of some people that offer this service to clients etc. that
is run there mail through the businesses scanning do hicky thingo.....

I also am lucky enough to run my own domain so I can make up aliases etc
willy nilly. As I subscribe to a new list etc I make up a new email address.
When I start getting bombarded with Spam to a certain address I know where
it has came from etc....

I have combated this by setting outlook to delete from server *any* mail from yahoo,
hotmail etc (non residential) email accounts.

If more people blocked these services, then they (the service providers), would
then start to do something about it!

********************************************************************
This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender.
You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
distribute its contents to any other person.
********************************************************************

> I am being hit by a small but increasing amount of spam.
> It always originates from Yahoo and has progressed from
> Nigerian Scams to Dutch Porn.
>
> I have this gut feeling that my address has been obtained
> by mining PicList. But I could be wrong.
> Is anyone else suffering from this affliction?
>
> I have reported it to @spam@abusespamKILLspamyahoo.com but have received no
> feedback from them.

90% chance it's NOT coming from Yahoo. Look at the headers and you'll see
where it actually came from. The vast majority of mine comes from .RU,
.CN or unresolvable IP addresses somewhere in RIPE or APNIC address space
(Europe or Asia).

I have an email account with my ISP that has never, not even once, been
used to send mail to anyone, anywhere. I don't use it, never have, never
will. But somehow this email address gets upwards of 30 to 50 SPAMs per
day. Wonder how the SPAMmers got that one? The only way I can think of
is someon at the ISP selling the list. Ditto for a Hotmail account I have
never once sent mail from or used anywhere, ever. Somehow the SPAMmers
get it.

I can't guarantee there are no address miners on the PICList, but I have
taken steps to try to catch any there are. It's usually pretty easy to
tell, and I do try to find any there are.

> I too have had an increase in spam recently.
>
> I have combated this by setting outlook to delete from server *any* mail from yahoo,
> hotmail etc (non residential) email accounts.
>
> If more people blocked these services, then they (the service providers), would
> then start to do something about it!

99% of the SPAMs I get with yahoo or hotmail From: or Reply-yo: addresses
do NOT come from those providers, the return addresses are forged.

Thanks to all of you for responding. I shall be
implementing your suggestions.

I went back and examined the headers. Something I should have
done earlier. I am now targeting the actual ISP's who appear
to have these ******* as customers. I know it will do no good
but it makes me feel better.

On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Chris Carr wrote:
> I have this gut feeling that my address has been obtained
> by mining PicList. But I could be wrong.
> Is anyone else suffering from this affliction?

Well, duh, I reported this and the source at least 8 months ago. It's from
usenet. Did you know the piclist is mirrored on usenet? Go to Google and
click on "groups", then put your name in to the search.

The idiots who pipe the piclist to usenet use the wholly inadequate
defense that they mess with the email addresses. Sure, but they don't do
it in the body of the message. When someone quotes your message in their
message, then your email address appears in full glory.

> I too have had an increase in spam recently.
>
> I have combated this by setting outlook to delete from server *any*
> mail from yahoo,
> hotmail etc (non residential) email accounts.
>
> If more people blocked these services, then they (the service
> providers), would
> then start to do something about it!
>
>
>
> ********************************************************************
> This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
> recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender.
> You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
> distribute its contents to any other person.
> ********************************************************************
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE
> topic:
> [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]:
> ->Ads
>
>

A few weeks ago it was mentioned here that this list gets mirrored on
Usenet or some other newsgroup list. Now we know that that is a serious
mother lode for address mining. I avoid all newsgroups like a plaque
because of this. I haven't looked, but is there any protection in place?
Two thing came up in this discussion so far:
1. There are an increase in SPAM to Piclisters, which I have noticed as
well.
2. Spams come from places such as " .RU, .CN or unresolvable IP
addresses somewhere in RIPE or APNIC address space
(Europe or Asia)." (to quote Dale). I noticed that as well.

Probably half my email is now spam. I'm messing around with Red Hat 7.1
and 7.2 systems. They include JunkBusters (I think it is). Anyone have
any experience with this? Do they use the MAPS list? I think it'd be
interesting to set up an email address called RemoveMEspamtrapKILLspamRemoveMEwhatever.com . All
incoming email would be compared with that spam trapped. A high
correlation would cause the email to be rejected. Meanwhile, I'll have to
buy a new delete key pretty soon...

> Like you I have also noticed an increase in SPAM. It never used to
> worry me
> but now it seems most of my incoming mail is not directly related so
> I
> installed a program called Omnipage MailWall and it has reduce a
> fair bit of
> it. I have heard of some people that offer this service to clients
> etc. that
> is run there mail through the businesses scanning do hicky
> thingo.....
>
> I also am lucky enough to run my own domain so I can make up aliases
> etc
> willy nilly. As I subscribe to a new list etc I make up a new email
> address.
> When I start getting bombarded with Spam to a certain address I know
> where
> it has came from etc....
>
> Just my thoughts.
> Regards, Peter.
>

I'm feeling left out. Get spammed once in a blue moon. The last
one I got was from an outfit purporting to be from vx.com about
how to get to be a millionaire and drive a new Porsche. Which
I ignored because (a) pages and pages of instructions and (b)
don't like Porsches (c) http://www.vx.com doesn't look to be the sort
of company that would spam and if the spammer can't use a
real address why should I bother with it

I was told this morning about a pop-up killer called Web Washer,
came well-recommended by a friend who frequents Warez sites
that are pop-up hell. Even my ISP has pop-ups now, and I wonder
how invasive scripts can be

You can go to groups.google.com and look at the group comp.arch.embedded.pic (BTW, there is also comp.arch.embedded.picbasic
for anyone interested). This group is simply a mirror of ALL messages sent to the PICList. The address in the headers is
modified so as not to be miner-friendly, but any addresses that show up in messages (in quoted replies, etc) show up as
originally posted.

>
> A few weeks ago it was mentioned here that this list gets mirrored on
> Usenet or some other newsgroup list. Now we know that that is a serious
> mother lode for address mining. I avoid all newsgroups like a plaque
> because of this. I haven't looked, but is there any protection in place?
> Two thing came up in this discussion so far:
> 1. There are an increase in SPAM to Piclisters, which I have noticed as
> well.
> 2. Spams come from places such as " .RU, .CN or unresolvable IP
> addresses somewhere in RIPE or APNIC address space
> (Europe or Asia)." (to quote Dale). I noticed that as well.
>
> So how about that newsgroup thing? I realy don't trust it.
>
> Q..

>I have an email account with my ISP that has never, not even once, been
>used to send mail to anyone, anywhere. I don't use it, never have, never
>will. But somehow this email address gets upwards of 30 to 50 SPAMs per
>day. Wonder how the SPAMmers got that one? The only way I can think of
>is someon at the ISP selling the list. Ditto for a Hotmail account I have
>never once sent mail from or used anywhere, ever. Somehow the SPAMmers
>get it.

There are many tactics used, and "lucky guessing" is one of them.
I'm allowed 6 email users with my dialup account and for various
reasons I have used several of them.

The one with the username "barryg" gets hit a lot (along with CC:s
to barryh, barryi, barryj, and so on).

The one called "lilo-boot" NEVER gets any. :-)

Then I made up one to be used for getting list messages. Brilliant
me, I named it "mailist". Hoo boy, that one is very popular!

We had a discussion several months ago regarding mirroring the PICList to
Usenet. At that time we had assurances from the person doing the
mirroring that *all* email addresses would be obscured. If that's not the
case, then we may need to re-examine that issue -- though it's probably
too late to do much about it now.

I was the one who booted the address used to mirror to Usenet (at the
suggestion of two other list admins), and caught some considerable flak
for it. There was a group decision among all the list admins and the list
owner (Jory, James, Mike, Mark and myself) at the time. The Usenet
contingent was permitted to resubscribe after assuring everyone they would
obscure email addresses, both in the headers AND the message bodies. No
one liked it much, but it was a compromise. I don't visit the wasteland
that was once Usenet, so I haven't checked the result -- apparently it was
not what was promised. I'll look into it as time permits, but it's the
holiday season, plus annual business things at work, and it may take a
while for me to get to it.

So I'm going to climb up on my soapbox for a little while. I hav noticed
that there seems to be no shortage or people who want all the benefits of
the PICList, but are unwilling to put forth even the slightest effort for
those benefits. Some are unwilling to do something as simple as using
topic tags. Some can't be bothered to subscribe to the list and manage
which topics they accept, and want to use a news reader instead. Some are
just too busy, too important, too antisocial, too whatever and want a
separate list for only those anointed few. Whatever. I'm not saying
everyone who benefits from the PICList needs to volunteer to help manage
it, but I am growing just the tiniest bit tired of small groups of people
expecting everyone else to cater to their wishes.

The vast majority of the subscribers to this list get along just fine
without coddling or special treatment. They understand that sometimes
things are not perfect, and you don't necessarily always get things just
exactly the way you want. They live with it. Some people could learn
from that.

> A few weeks ago it was mentioned here that this list gets mirrored on
> Usenet or some other newsgroup list. Now we know that that is a serious
> mother lode for address mining. I avoid all newsgroups like a plaque
> because of this. I haven't looked, but is there any protection in place?
> Two thing came up in this discussion so far:
> 1. There are an increase in SPAM to Piclisters, which I have noticed as
> well.
> 2. Spams come from places such as " .RU, .CN or unresolvable IP
> addresses somewhere in RIPE or APNIC address space
> (Europe or Asia)." (to quote Dale). I noticed that as well.
>
> So how about that newsgroup thing? I realy don't trust it.

One way for spammers to obtain addresses is to mine the address book of
outlook express.

Especially if you have it set up to automatically enter new email addressess
automatically. With the recent worm virus being dispatched (I'm still
getting to or three a day) it replicates your address book changes its
identity and the name of the attachment and away she goes.

3 things can be done -

1. If using Outlook/Express don't use the preview window, for some
mining/viruses you have opened an email by using preview.

2.Don't have auto entry switched on for the address book

3.don't have your name in the Public Directory for Yahoo or Hotmail. Though
I suspect there are some smart cookies :) that seem trawl your cookie list
and get info.

>
> You can go to groups.google.com and look at the group comp.arch.embedded.pic (BTW, there is also comp.arch.embedded.picbasic
> for anyone interested). This group is simply a mirror of ALL messages sent to the PICList. The address in the headers is
> modified so as not to be miner-friendly, but any addresses that show up in messages (in quoted replies, etc) show up as
> originally posted.
>
> jp
>
> Quentin wrote:
> >
> > A few weeks ago it was mentioned here that this list gets mirrored on
> > Usenet or some other newsgroup list. Now we know that that is a serious
> > mother lode for address mining. I avoid all newsgroups like a plaque
> > because of this. I haven't looked, but is there any protection in place?
> > Two thing came up in this discussion so far:
> > 1. There are an increase in SPAM to Piclisters, which I have noticed as
> > well.
> > 2. Spams come from places such as " .RU, .CN or unresolvable IP
> > addresses somewhere in RIPE or APNIC address space
> > (Europe or Asia)." (to quote Dale). I noticed that as well.
> >
> > So how about that newsgroup thing? I realy don't trust it.
> >
> > Q..
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
> [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
-Douglas Adams

>I also am lucky enough to run my own domain so I can make up aliases etc
>willy nilly. As I subscribe to a new list etc I make up a new email address.
>When I start getting bombarded with Spam to a certain address I know where
>it has came from etc....

I used to know a guy who was compulsive about this.
Every time he put his name down on something, he used
a new middle initial - and kept track of them.
John A. Smith, John B. Smith, etc. When he got
unsolicited material he could tell exactly who was
peddling his name. Didn't take him long to get up to
double middle initials, either.

>I am being hit by a small but increasing amount of spam.
>It always originates from Yahoo and has progressed from
>Nigerian Scams to Dutch Porn.
>
>I have this gut feeling that my address has been obtained
>by mining PicList. But I could be wrong.
>Is anyone else suffering from this affliction?
>
>I have reported it to spamBeGoneabuseKILLspamTakeThisOuTyahoo.com but have received no
>feedback from them.
>
>Regards
>Chris Carr
>
>--
>http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
>[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

The Email address I use to post to this list is exclusive to this list. I
have been signed up for over six months and have never received any spam. I
have posted a number of times so I should have had something by now. All the
mail is filtered to its own folder for this account, which I archive for
easy look up when I'm stuck.

I use bigfoot and hotmail to post to newsgroups when I do and both of these
have pretty reasonable spam filters these days so I get maybe 5 spams a week
through these.

I have a yahoo.co.uk account which I have never been spammed on either. I
thinks its all to do with how careful you are giving out your email
addresses. I'm always suspicous of anything that asks for my email address,
some software does these days.

Also the google groups aren't available on any of the 4 news servers that I
am signed up for. So I don't think that they are usenet listed.

Guys, I checked comp.arch.embedded.piclist and verified that, at least in
the dozen or so posts I saw, *all* email addresses are obscured, whether
in headers or the message body, signature, wherever. I'd personally like
to see them a little more obscured (like maybe removing the top-level
domain entirely). This would however prevent people using newsreaders
from being able to respond privately to a post. Maybe some other means
like ROT13 or something...

I don't remember who was complaining that addresses were not altered in
the message bodies, but if you have a link I'll look again.

I did a search on my email address (EraseMEpfaff.....KILLspamwriteme.com) and found lots. However, the last one was from May of this year.
Apparently TPTB started mangling addresses in message bodies sometime after that.

>
> Guys, I checked comp.arch.embedded.piclist and verified that, at least in
> the dozen or so posts I saw, *all* email addresses are obscured, whether
> in headers or the message body, signature, wherever. I'd personally like
> to see them a little more obscured (like maybe removing the top-level
> domain entirely). This would however prevent people using newsreaders
> from being able to respond privately to a post. Maybe some other means
> like ROT13 or something...
>
> I don't remember who was complaining that addresses were not altered in
> the message bodies, but if you have a link I'll look again.
>
> Dale
>

> Realistically speaking....there's no way to avoid spam...
> Everybody gets it...
> You would get it anyway...even without the Piclist.

Realistically speaking:
1) Assuming a fictitious identity is not legal in most places.
2) Having a non-functional return address is as bad as 1).
3) Having a valid return address that belongs to someone else amounts to
impersonation and is also illegal.

There will always be more people affected by spam than the number of
people who send it, therefore it should be legally and democratically be
condemned to be wiped out!

If you really want, you can think up at least 3 legal ways and at least 3
technical ways to get rid of spam. I have been using procmail scripts and
the same email address since 1996 or before, and it took 5 years for the
spam to catch up (but not quite). The system logs show that the filters do
a good job most of the time. However this is a stopgap, not a solution.

Spamming heavily is a form of electronic warfare and a form of terrorism.
It can bring down networks or be a denial of service attack. The powers
that be should take this very seriously imho, asap. Especially when the
origin is in third world countries not necessarily friendly to the
receivers of the mail.

> I did a search on my email address (spampfaffwriteme.com) and found lots. However, the last one was from May of this year.
> Apparently TPTB started mangling addresses in message bodies sometime after that.
>
> jp
>
> Dale Botkin wrote:
> >
> > Guys, I checked comp.arch.embedded.piclist and verified that, at least in
> > the dozen or so posts I saw, *all* email addresses are obscured, whether
> > in headers or the message body, signature, wherever. I'd personally like
> > to see them a little more obscured (like maybe removing the top-level
> > domain entirely). This would however prevent people using newsreaders
> > from being able to respond privately to a post. Maybe some other means
> > like ROT13 or something...
> >
> > I don't remember who was complaining that addresses were not altered in
> > the message bodies, but if you have a link I'll look again.
> >
> > Dale
> >
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
> (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics
>
>

A while ago someone mentioned a way of getting someone to stop sending
spam. I have someone from China who sends an email with 8-9 JPG files and I
have asked them to stop but to no avail. Can anyone help and supply a name
who I could contact to get rid of this person?
I mean to get rid of him from the NET!!

> A while ago someone mentioned a way of getting someone to stop sending
> spam. I have someone from China who sends an email with 8-9 JPG files and
I
> have asked them to stop but to no avail. Can anyone help and supply a name
> who I could contact to get rid of this person?
> I mean to get rid of him from the NET!!

You report SPAM to them and they track down the true sender and send spam
reports to their ISP(s)
Also to people who they may have used as open relays along the way.
You can also see the addresses involved.
They report progress as they go - it is quite interesting to see the amount
of digging they have to do to trace some emails.

You have to join but their basic level is free.
The easiest method is to note the special customised email address they give
you and forward spam with full headers there.
When they have processed it they send you an email and you click on the link
provided and basically click on the send bar. You can also add individual
messages if you wish.
Your ID is (apparently) protected.

They offer more services for money including spam filtering of your incoming
email.

James Newton has a program available that automates this process but I
believe it only runs on WIN2K/ME/XP ???

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [PICLISTSTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Peter Grey
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:18
> To: PICLISTSTOPspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [OT]: Spam
>
>
> A while ago someone mentioned a way of getting someone to stop sending
> spam. I have someone from China who sends an email with 8-9 JPG
> files and I
> have asked them to stop but to no avail. Can anyone help and supply a name
> who I could contact to get rid of this person?
> I mean to get rid of him from the NET!!
>
>
> TIA
>
>
> Peter
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
> [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads
>
>
>

I'm getting quite interested in this SpamCop - dunno where I've been, but
I've not come across it before. I shall certainly try it out.

Can anyone here actually say that they've definately noticed a decrease in
the amount of spam they receive after having used SpamCop? I guess SpamCop
is great for annoying the spammers, but at the end of the day your email
address is still on the list.

I have used spamcop's email tracking and sent complaints to the involved
isp's, never used the filtering. Before I started complaining to the ISP's
of the spammers I was averaging 300+ spam's per day! after getting half a
dozen spammers busted, it dropped to less than 5 per week. Seems the
majority of the spam tracks back to just a few spammers who send out
millions of spams.

> I'm getting quite interested in this SpamCop - dunno where I've been, but
> I've not come across it before. I shall certainly try it out.
>
> Can anyone here actually say that they've definately noticed a decrease in
> the amount of spam they receive after having used SpamCop? I guess SpamCop
> is great for annoying the spammers, but at the end of the day your email
> address is still on the list.
>
> Trev
>
>
>
>

If you look at the headers of my email you will note that my ISP is NOT
farcite.net, but sympatico.ca. Every bit of spam sent through most ISPs out
there will have enough information for you to figure out their ISP. Spamcop
is an easy way of doing it, but I prefer a more direct approach myself. TTYL

Sorry to noise the list but I've been getting spam from something that
calls itself @spam@axis-of-evil.....spamgwbush.com. It is filthy political spam and I'm
fed up with it. Since I've complained before I seem to have been
resubscribed ?! Question: has anyone else seen filth from this source ?

On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 05:07, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> Sorry to noise the list but I've been getting spam from something that
> calls itself spamaxis-of-evil..........gwbush.com. It is filthy political spam and I'm
> fed up with it. Since I've complained before I seem to have been
> resubscribed ?! Question: has anyone else seen filth from this source ?

LOL! That's a good fake address... funny! At least that spammer has a
good sense of humor. GW rehashing the nickname of the "bad guys" from
WWII sure is an interesting Marketing gimick from his staffers, eh?

Even the headers are relatively easy to fake... remember there's very
little effort done at authentication at most mail servers, and even less
personal authentication of the sender, even though both technologies
have been viable for a decade or more.

Generically, replying to spam addresses that say "click here to take me
off the list" or hitting reply to it just guarantees to the spammer that
a real live human being is on the other end of the e-mail address in
their list, and the spam just gets worse.

Best to just delete and move on in most cases unless you're absolutely
sure the spam is something you got from a reputable organization that
will remove your address if asked. You can literally spend years
digging through headers and "fighting the good fight" against spam and
more spammers will show up next year.

The best chance you have against spam right now is to install good
quality spam blocking software (SpamAssassin on a Unix mail server comes
to mind) and simply throw out anything questionable... if you're a
business you probably need to flag spam for deletion but not throw it
out... depending on your preference. Moving anything questionable at
the server level into its own folder on an IMAP mail server is a
WONDEFUL technique, but good luck getting any ISP's to even offer IMAP,
let alone good anti-spam software. This is where running your own
server really starts to show major benefits... you know how your
anti-virus, anti-spam, and anti-annoying-person filters are set up.
(And you can put *me* in your annoying-person filter list! hahaha...)

The only real solution is serious laws (eventually recognized
Internationally) with teeth in them against the STEALING of resources
that Unsolicited Bulk Commercial E-mail really is. Write your local
politicians and CongressCritters if you're in the U.S. Tell them that
you're tired of others using what you paid for... your server, your
bandwidth, your monitor, your eyeballs... heh... well, I wear glasses...
(GRIN).

*>On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 05:07, Peter L. Peres wrote:
*>> Sorry to noise the list but I've been getting spam from something that
*>> calls itself spam_OUTaxis-of-evilTakeThisOuTEraseMEgwbush.com. It is filthy political spam and I'm
*>> fed up with it. Since I've complained before I seem to have been
*>> resubscribed ?! Question: has anyone else seen filth from this source ?
*>
*>LOL! That's a good fake address... funny! At least that spammer has a
*>good sense of humor. GW rehashing the nickname of the "bad guys"

It is not so easy to fake it around here. In this part of the world
insecure ISPs are mostly down ...

*>Generically, replying to spam addresses that say "click here to take me
*>off the list" or hitting reply to it just guarantees to the spammer that
*>a real live human being is on the other end of the e-mail address in
*>their list, and the spam just gets worse.

I'll keep this in mind. Since I use Unix I could send them say 200,000
emails saying please unsubscribe me, each quoting the full message but
with enough random variation that filters won't stop it. Do you think that
this would help ? ;-)

*>more spammers will show up next year.

Raid Max was invented for a reason ;-)

*>The best chance you have against spam right now is to install good
*>quality spam blocking software (SpamAssassin on a Unix mail server comes

I have spam filters everywhere. Th messages are stopped by the filter but
this is a newsletter kind of thing, it comes weekly or something like
that.

*>let alone good anti-spam software. This is where running your own
*>server really starts to show major benefits... you know how your
*>anti-virus, anti-spam, and anti-annoying-person filters are set up.
*>(And you can put *me* in your annoying-person filter list! hahaha...)

Done. Ha.

*>The only real solution is serious laws (eventually recognized
*>Internationally) with teeth in them against the STEALING of resources
*>that Unsolicited Bulk Commercial E-mail really is. Write your local
*>politicians and CongressCritters if you're in the U.S. Tell them that
*>you're tired of others using what you paid for... your server, your
*>bandwidth, your monitor, your eyeballs... heh... well, I wear glasses...

Can we skip this and just spray them if we're not in the US ? Please ? I
get about 20% spam and 80% of it is stopped at the expen$ive ISP. If I'll
change ISP I'll get it all.

> On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Nate Duehr wrote:
>
> *>On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 05:07, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> *>> Sorry to noise the list but I've been getting spam from something that
> *>> calls itself @spam@axis-of-evilspamgwbush.com. It is filthy political spam and I'm
> *>> fed up with it. Since I've complained before I seem to have been
> *>> resubscribed ?! Question: has anyone else seen filth from this source ?
> *>
> *>LOL! That's a good fake address... funny! At least that spammer has a
> *>good sense of humor. GW rehashing the nickname of the "bad guys"
>
> I'm not sure you would laugh if you would read the stuff they write.
>
> *>E-mail ender addresses are very easy to fake. Would you like some
> *>e-mail from me that says it's from TakeThisOuTpresidentKILLspam@spam@whitehouse.gov ? (GRIN)
>
> It is not so easy to fake it around here. In this part of the world
> insecure ISPs are mostly down ...
>
> *>Generically, replying to spam addresses that say "click here to take me
> *>off the list" or hitting reply to it just guarantees to the spammer that
> *>a real live human being is on the other end of the e-mail address in
> *>their list, and the spam just gets worse.
>
> I'll keep this in mind. Since I use Unix I could send them say 200,000
> emails saying please unsubscribe me, each quoting the full message but
> with enough random variation that filters won't stop it. Do you think that
> this would help ? ;-)
>
> *>more spammers will show up next year.
>
> Raid Max was invented for a reason ;-)
>
> *>The best chance you have against spam right now is to install good
> *>quality spam blocking software (SpamAssassin on a Unix mail server comes
>
> I have spam filters everywhere. Th messages are stopped by the filter but
> this is a newsletter kind of thing, it comes weekly or something like
> that.
>
> *>let alone good anti-spam software. This is where running your own
> *>server really starts to show major benefits... you know how your
> *>anti-virus, anti-spam, and anti-annoying-person filters are set up.
> *>(And you can put *me* in your annoying-person filter list! hahaha...)
>
> Done. Ha.
>
> *>The only real solution is serious laws (eventually recognized
> *>Internationally) with teeth in them against the STEALING of resources
> *>that Unsolicited Bulk Commercial E-mail really is. Write your local
> *>politicians and CongressCritters if you're in the U.S. Tell them that
> *>you're tired of others using what you paid for... your server, your
> *>bandwidth, your monitor, your eyeballs... heh... well, I wear glasses...
>
> Can we skip this and just spray them if we're not in the US ? Please ? I
> get about 20% spam and 80% of it is stopped at the expen$ive ISP. If I'll
> change ISP I'll get it all.
>
> Peter
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
> .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu
>
>

Your idea of plastering their server with "responses" sure is
tempting... that'd be easy to script, wouldn't it? (GRIN)

Sure, it's tempting. IF you can accurately determin the actual "guilty"
server, and IF the spammer isn't just leveraging some poor ISP with free
accounts and/or security holes and doesn't CARE if that account/server/ISP
gets blown away by retalitory email bombings. I figure that about 80% of
those "how to spam" texts involves strategies for making sure that any
retaliation to your spam falls on innocent shoulders, rather than your own.

(Perhaps ISPs that are insufficiently careful about screening the people who
sign up, or limitting outgoing spam (which isn't necessarilly easy, for that
matter) SHOULD suffer for their carelessness. But that seems unnecessarilly
cruel to me.)