British Electorate Delivers Seismic Political Shockwave Voting to Leave the E.U. Aired at 2-3p ET

Aired June 24, 2016 - 14:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour at Westminster, the seat of British democracy. The

British electorate has delivered a seismic political shockwave, felt around the European Union and around the world. The United Kingdom has voted to

leave the E.U. by over a million votes.

The reaction was immediate. Just after 8 o'clock in the morning here, the Prime Minister, David Cameron, offered his resignation, his voice breaking

with emotion, he said, he would stay on until October to help see the country through this change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRITISH PRIME MINISTER DAVID CAMERON: And I will do everything I can to help. I love this country, and I feel honored to have served it. And I

will do everything I can in future to help this great country succeed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: The financial and currency markets lurched into a queasy dive with millions of pounds wiped off the value of the markets, leading figures

in Europe attempted to calm fears, but the German chancellor Angela Merkel, found it hard to disguise her sense of shock.

GERMAN CHANCELLOR ANGELA MERKEL: For the coming weeks, months, years, what exactly that means, that will very much depend on whether we, the other 27

European Union members, are willing and, also, capable to act.

AMANPOUR: A triumphant tone was struck here in London by the leader of the U.K. Independence Party, Nigel Farage, who forced this referendum, but

Boris Johnson, a late convert to the Brexit cause, ceased this victory as his, perhaps, route to number 10 Downing Street, and he called for calm.

[14:05:12]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, CONVERT TO BREXIT CAUSE: I want reassure everybody and remind you, as a result of this, Britain will continue to be a great

European power, leading discussions on foreign policy and defense and intelligence sharing, and all the work that currently goes on to make our

world safer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: But remainers call what happened a leap into the dark, which drew congratulations from controversial presidential candidate in the

United States, Donald Trump. He arrived in Scotland to open a new golf course.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, BUSINESSMAN: I've been saying that I would prefer what happened. I thought this would be a good thing.

I think it will turn out to be a good thing, maybe short term, not, but ultimately, I think it will be a good thing. And I've actually been in

touch and some, by the way, don't like it, and some do like it. You know, they're advisors, they're like everybody else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now begins the political sole searching as Westminster figures out just how to enact the divorce from Europe. So Gerald Howarth, is a

conservative member of Parliament and a former defense minister. He supported the leave campaign and he joins us now. Welcome to the program.

Are you surprised by the depth of the reaction around the world?

GERALD HOWARTH, CONSERVATIVE MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: No, (inaudible) this has been a pretty seismic decision for the British people. It's been a

long time in the coming. I was one of those who campaigned four years ago for us to leave the EU, which was then called the (inaudible) Market and

has since become ever more of a European super (inaudible), which is why the people of Britain voted yesterday to leave.

I am surprised that Angela Merkel should be surprised, because she knows perfectly well, because the Prime Minister told her, that there is growing

skepticism in the United Kingdom, has been over many years, with the way the E.U. has been developing into the (inaudible). It's got a flag and

anthem, a Parliament, a currency, which, of course, has destroyed Greece and has brought about mass unemployment in other parts of Europe.

And for her to say that she is surprised and shocked, come on Chancellor Merkel, you know ...

AMANPOUR: ... I'm surprised that you're surprised and shocked by her reaction. Of course, your description of the E.U. would be unrecognizable

to many people. But let me ask you this. President Obama, obviously, America is one of Britain's closest and strongest allies and says the

relationship will continue. Others are looking around and one of the kinder comments by members of the economic establishment, for instance, is

that this is an extraordinary economic experiment by the British, a self- inflicted potential wound. Others are saying an extraordinary political blunder. How are you going to get beyond what many people - and you know

how the preponderance of the expert evidence and all your allies - it was a one-sided argument. Almost everybody believed that this shouldn't happen.

How are you going to get beyond that and have a divorce that is quick, that is not messy, and that keeps Britain intact economically?

HOWARTH: Well, Christiane, let's be quite clear. This is not an experiment. Do you know what? We've been here before. We only remember

this organization ...

AMANPOUR: ... Well, that's actually not true because this is the first time a country voluntarily exited from the EU, so it's not true.

HOWARTH: We're exiting from a 1950s construct, which has been strangling Europe and us, and we are going to embrace the wider world. We're going to

go back to where we were before, a free, sovereign nation, charting our own course in the world, and that's where we were until 40 years ago, and we

joined the - it is the E.U. which is the experiment because, of course, this is not a federation of states. Allegedly, these are sovereign nation

states which are being increasingly forced into a United States of America type construct.

AMANPOUR: So you know very well that the weight of reality means that the European Union is not going to ever close the union. In fact, the Germans

say that, even before this vote, that would not be right. And David Cameron did secure an (inaudible). Be that as it may, this is your view of

it, so the question really is, are you going to accept what the Europeans say, which is a quick divorce, none of this hanging around, waiting and

joins me from New York. Rana, thanks for being with us on this day. We saw all this volatility, is it recovering at all?

RANA FOROOHAR, ASSISTING MANAGING EDITOR FOR TIME MAGAZINE: Well, it's stabilizing a little bit, but I expect the next few days, weeks, and,

really, months to be quite volatile. I think that what may happen, given that the Fed, the U.S. central bank has come out and said, "Look, we're

going to stand behind markets. We're going to support markets." You may, by next week, start to see the U.S. markets moderate a little bit. Europe

will be more iffy, a lot of this is going to depend on whether the U.K. leaving is just one domino to fall in a Europe that is still struggling

with sclerotic growth, still has a debt crisis, and has far right and far left wing politics in many countries.

So Europe is still very fragile. If we start to get a sense that there are more countries that want to talk about leaving, then I think you're going

to see real trouble in the European markets.

AMANPOUR: Rana, thank you very much, indeed, a lot of political and economic volatility ahead. We're going to bring in our Fred Pleitgen.

He's in the Brexit heartland of Rumford in Essex, and he joins us now. Fred, what is the reaction there?

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rumford is one of those places, they actually had a really high voter turnout during the U.K.

referendum, Christiane, and the interesting thing about this place is that they voted almost 70 percent to leave the European Union, so this is one of

the places that is one of the most pro-BREXIT in the entire country here.

And we asked people, why exactly they voted that way. And here's what they said to us:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think, in a way, it's because the immigration, you know, the immigration factor, and people have just had enough, you know,

enough is enough. And I think everyone turned out and voted, so it is a great result.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think everybody is just fed up with being (inaudible) and setting our own laws, and just housing, (inaudible). I think everybody

has just had enough, and they just want to change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the end of the day, it's nearly half and half. Maybe half the population wants to stay and half wanted to go out. It's a

close call, personally, I'm quite excited about the future. It's one of those, if you had a crystal ball, and what would you know? We could be in

a bad place in 10 years. We could be in a much better place. Who knows.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: So one of the things that people said to us is they believe that immigration policy was something that really caused them to vote the way

that they did. Some of them also said they simply feel that the E.U. has impeded their economic chances in the workplace today. And it was

interesting, Christiane, because I honestly asked a couple of people whether they thought that the sort of slump that you're seeing in the pound

and the stock market, whether that was something they believed would be temporary or something that would go on.

A lot of them said, they didn't fear that this would hurt Britain's economy in the longer term. Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Fred Pleitgen, thanks so much for joining us from Essex there. And so interesting that the figures show that a lot of the areas in England

that rejected the EU, were ones where there is not much immigration. Whereas right here in London, which is a melting pot of so many different

ethnicities and nationalities, the reaction has been one of shock because this city voted overwhelmingly to remain.

And just five boroughs backed leave.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm shocked, really, yes, I don't know what's going to happen. It seems very strange. I was worried for young people because

most young people voted to remain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really just can't say how happy I am. I've waited so long for this. I never wanted to join - become a market in the first

place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to live with the votes now and a million more people voted to be out than in, so we'll see what happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, was one of the strongest remain campaigners. He told me the country must now heal the divisions and that

London will never stop being an open-minded, outward-looking city.

What is your reaction today

SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR OF LONDON: We will recognize the will of the British people. They voted for us to leave the European Union. I mean, London

voted quite decisively to remain in the EU. (inaudible) Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the British public has spoken. My message to friends

and businesses and investors in America (inaudible) open-minded, outward- looking country. My message to the new prime minister will be it's really important, we will negotiate with the EU, (inaudible) we get a single

market access for our business, so use an American company, an investor, a business person, can sort of (inaudible) of access to the European Union.

What's really important is that we (inaudible) a leading global city.

AMANPOUR: But how is that going to happen because, obviously, this really puts London in threat, because the Brexiters, they say they don't want the

single market if the price is the free flow of people. That, they don't want, that's what this referendum was all about.

KHAN: Well, some of the questions that they weren't able to answer in the campaign was how they're going to negotiate a better deal with the E.U.

than we have as one of 28. (ph) Now that's the conundrum for them to solve. My message to the prime minister, whoever he or she is, it's

really, really important that London has a seat at the table. It's really important we have access to a single market.

My message to businesses, investors and friends and others in America (ph) is, I don't think for a second that we're going to stop being open-minded,

outward-looking. Don't think for a second we're going to stop the creativity and innovation in our city. And it's really important that the

message from (inaudible) is heard loud and clear. We are a great city. We're a great country. We're going to carry on in being so. (ph)

AMANPOUR: Is it the conservative party that elects a new leader and they de facto the new prime minister, or there's going to be new general

elections?

KHAN: So there's a recent (inaudible) which is when Tony Blair resigned as the leader of the Labor Party. The Labor Party then elected a new leader,

and he became the prime minister, Gordon Brown. And so constitutionally, there doesn't need to be a new general election. The government has a

five-year mandate. We're a fixed terrorism Parliament, so strictly speaking, a new conservative leader could be the prime minister for the

next three and half years.

I suspect that (inaudible) pressure him or her to have a general election to get a fresh mandate because that will be needed when it comes to

negotiations with European Union.

AMANPOUR: How does this country get back together again?

KHAN: What you see in the results across the country is Scotland, Northern Ireland and London voted one way, and the rest of the country voted another

way. The only region in England to vote to remain was London.

AMANPOUR: Which is the only region in England that actually has a lot of immigrants in. In many of these other parts ...

KHAN: And we're going to recognize that, you know, the phrase I have is, "A win is a win." But you're right, it was a very close win, it was split

down the middle. We're going to bring people together. We're going to now (inaudible) the tactics used by the winning party because they won.

There's no point in ...

AMANPOUR: So the lesson is that fear and hate win.

KHAN: The lesson is, is that the British public aren't happy with the European Union. We didn't do enough over the last few years to persuade

the British public of the benefits of the European Union. It's been a drip, drip, drip thing for the last 10, 20 or 30 years. The British prime

minister talks tough, goes to the E.U. to do a deal, comes back and then criticizes the EU.

Well, when there's a concession made, talks (inaudible) because of the British might. And I think a recourse over a period of time, the British

public have not seen the benefits of the EU. We've got to recognize those - the British public have chosen to leave and deal with the consequences.

And one of the consequences is, is how you bring people back together again.

And my message to European citizens, Europeanizes, is that we will respect you. We respect the work you do. We respect the hard work you do, the

taxes you pay, the contribution you make.

AMANPOUR: You mean citizens here.

KHAN: Absolutely right. And you know, you should be reassured that whatever happens in the deal, we will make sure that we recognize the

contribution you make.

AMANPOUR: We've seen the catalyst who instigated this referendum, that is Nigel Farage, who many people have complained has really driven those

politics of fear and demonization of the foreigner. He's the one that's claiming victory now. He is claiming victory. Will Nigel Farage

inevitably be part of Britain's political culture now? Accepted culture?

KHAN: Well, that's a question for the leave campaign is to answer. They can't run away from the fact that something's been unleashed during this

campaign. There are people who have lived here for 10 to 15 years, European citizens who, for the first time ever, been the victims of racial

abuse. There are people who have lived here for five, 10 years, Polish, German, Italian, French, Spanish, who, in the last few weeks and months,

have been uncomfortable because the atmosphere created by the campaign. It's not for (ph) the victors, the leave team, to reconcile what's been

unleashed. And my message is very simple, we better unite. Yes, you've won. We've got to make sure that we send the message we are (inaudible)

business. We are the great city in the greatest country in the world, but at the same time, bring our own people together.

AMANPOUR: A message to unite which may be easier said than done. Coming up next, I'm joined by the German politician, Elmar Brok; he's leader of

the foreign affairs committee in the European Parliament.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: U.S. President Barack Obama has spoken out about Brexit while visiting Stanford University in California. This is what he had to say:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I do think that yesterday's vote speaks to the ongoing changes and challenges

that are raised by globalization, but while the U.K.'s relationship with the E.U. will change, one thing that will not change, is the special

relationship that exists between our two nations. That will endure. The E.U. will remain one of our indispensable partners. Our NATO alliance will

remain a cornerstone of global security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So how will this work in practice? I'm joined now by the German politician, Elmar Brok. He's an MEP for Angela Merkel's Democratic Party,

and leader of the foreign affairs committee in the European Parliament. And he's coming to us now from Berlin.

Welcome to the program, so you just heard what the President of the United States said about sort of shifting alliances, and you also - we heard -

what your chancellor said about not being able to disguise her shock and about the way forward depends on how, not just Britain but you all activist

to contain this. Can you walk us through what you think is likely to happen in the immediate aftermath of this?

ELMAR BROK, GERMAN POLITICIAN MEP FOR ANGELA MERKEL'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY, LEADER OF THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE IN EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: I think we

have this Article 50, of the Treaty of Lisbon, our constitution that (inaudible) to leave is to ask for that, and we hope they do it as soon as

possible, and this divorce (inaudible) in a time of two years. Britain then can (inaudible) another type of relationship with European Union as a

third country.

AMANPOUR: Well, you say you hope it's done, you know, as soon as possible, I just spoke to a leading leave MP (ph) who say, "No, we don't want to do

it soon." I mean, there's all sorts of ideas that they may sort of pick and choose, a la carte, and take it really slowly. What will the E.U. tell

David Cameron when he comes to visit Brussels on Tuesday?

BROK: Well I think the pick and chooses is not possible. That would be a bad example for all the others, the (inaudible). We can only live if

everyone takes the same obligations. We have given (inaudible) this year to the United Kingdom. If they want to have only the benefits, then others

have to carry the obligation, this will not work, and, therefore, they will not get that. The European Parliament has always to give their consent on

that, and the European Parliament would never do that. I think this is the wrong way, and we would have an uncertainty, especially Britain would have

a lot of problems. We should make it clear cut and look for new relationships in a positive and constructive way and not to play that

special deeds on the behalf of others.

AMANPOUR: I hear you being very firm about what you think needs to happen. So what do you think the atmosphere will be like when Britain tries to

negotiate these special new relationships after the divorce? Is Europe going to be very welcoming of this, or is it going to be tougher than the

leavers tell everybody it's going to be?

BROK: I think we're all professionals, we have to live together and; therefore, it will be a positive negotiations and a clear-cut rule.

Britain has asked from outside as a third country and then we will do regular negotiations for (inaudible) trade agreement under fair conditions,

and that could be closer relationships like the Norwegian solution, but that would mean that Britain has to take on board every rule we decide for

the internal market without having any say in that, but including free movement of labor for Polish workers, for example, and I do not think that

Britain will ask for that, but if they were to do so, they welcome to do so.

AMANPOUR: So you say we have to be positive and mature about this, but do you believe this is going to give the E.U. a hit and/or give the U.K. a hit

economically and in any other way?

BROK: Well, I think we have all problems with that. To lose the United Kingdom to (inaudible) is not good for us, but even worse for the United

Kingdom. The 27 can live without the United Kingdom. It's not fine, but it's possible, but the United Kingdom will find out that it's pretty

isolated. It's relatively weak. No European is strong enough anymore in this global environment, politics and economics, therefore, together we are

strong, and Britain loses its position, and, therefore, President Obama a few weeks ago was right as he said, Britain, he likes a strong Britain. It

is especially strong because it is a member of the European Union. That was the right approach, but there was a lot of (ph) wrong arguments, a lot

of lies. It is an emotional battle of migration. It has nothing to do with Britain mixing up Syrian refugees with Polish workers. I think all

that (inaudible) and fair, emotional (inaudible) that now this Brexit people have to tell their people (inaudible) as a result of that

(inaudible) discussion they have to do it alone and not on our behalf.

AMANPOUR: You sound pretty gloomy there, MR. Brok. As (inaudible) said today and Tweeted, "Damn, this is a bad day." Is that how you're feeling?

BROK: It's a bad day, for sure, for both of us. Both Britain and the European Union, but it must be now a clear-cut solution and not for three,

four or five years a situation which is unclarified. It would be a disaster for all of us, and I think they have decided not to members, and

they cannot be members anymore. We take the decision of the British people serious and, otherwise, all the other countries would do also (inaudible)

such as, cherry picking contract. And at the end of the union there, and, therefore, we cannot do that. Nobody will follow that and, therefore,

Britain should not fall to the trap of another wrong tactic. (ph)

AMANPOUR: Well, we hear you loud and clear. Of course, we've also heard other countries say that they want to do precisely what Britain has done in

the aftermath of this vote. Thank you so much, Mr. Brok for joining us from Berlin.

BROK: (inaudible)

AMANPOUR: All right, we hear you. Thank you very much, indeed. Now, some are calling this Independence Day for the United Kingdom. So we're going

to look back at four decades of E.U. membership that has divided this country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program from Westminster and imagine a world where the United Kingdom is a divided kingdom today. The front pages of

Europe's newspaper are already doing it. Tomorrow's (inaudible) in France wishing us good luck and showing that famous image of Boris Johnson, the