im also going to kickstart with an oral which i havent chosen....with this cycle im trying to lose some fat gain some muscle and not bloat and i threw some test to maintain healthy libido and sex drive, but hopefully not enough to bloat me and cause acne and other androgenic sides........any recommendations on which oral would work well with that cycle

well im buying 10 ml of 200 mg/ml tren E so if anyone thinks ill get better results using it differently chime in....i know for some tren can have some unpleasent sides so i was choosing to run it for shorter than the test alone.....also does anybody think my libido will be fine on that much test, and do most users notice androgenic sides like bloat and acne on such a low dose of test?

this is another way that i could make it practical......this would require an extra vial of test for some extra weeks.....at that dosage im concerned about acne and bloat especially in the face......i might just run it lower dose and have some extra test laying around. still undecided on oral.

what if i were to run the cycle with out test.....and maybe throw in some masteron E......or some provieron?

if you dont got a girl or dont intend on getting any action with a female or yourself then go without test. Dont run masteron unless you are less than 8% bodyfat imo. I agree with jomi, too short for an EQ run. Proviron is good at increasing free test and adding a little libido but dont expect gains from it, it also acts as a weak AI so it could help you with the bloat and harden up a bit.

Your already running twice as much tren as test...which is the opposite of the norm ,you will be shut down about week 3 if not sooner....Although I feel your doses are very low anyways,why would you not want to run test strong...test should be the staple in your cycle...then the other stuff...If you run less test than tren your gonna be limp d1ckin' it the whole cycle basically...if tren is doesed at 500mg week,test should be at least 600mg week....don't be scared to go higher...If you gonna do it,Do it Right!!

Your already running twice as much tren as test...which is the opposite of the norm ,you will be shut down about week 3 if not sooner....Although I feel your doses are very low anyways,why would you not want to run test strong...test should be the staple in your cycle...then the other stuff...If you run less test than tren your gonna be limp d1ckin' it the whole cycle basically...if tren is doesed at 500mg week,test should be at least 600mg week....don't be scared to go higher...If you gonna do it,Do it Right!!

my tren is lower then test.....200 mg a week.......i would think that 250 mgs of test would be plenty to keep libido happy.....how are most peoples libido/sexdrive usually effected by eq?

if you dont got a girl or dont intend on getting any action with a female or yourself then go without test. Dont run masteron unless you are less than 8% bodyfat imo. I agree with jomi, too short for an EQ run. Proviron is good at increasing free test and adding a little libido but dont expect gains from it, it also acts as a weak AI so it could help you with the bloat and harden up a bit.

the masteron and provieron wouldnt be for libido not gains...although it will help as i will be recomping

Be careful with the Tren Enanthate, it's supposidely stronger than acetate.

Where'd you hear that,Due to the Ester Weight Tren Enth has 20-30% less hormone then tren ace...I would agree though that you will want to be more careful w/ a long ester tren for the fact that if you start getting sides you won't be able to just stop the shots as w/ short estered acetate...Tren in general is some serious sh1t.not for beginners...RESPECT THE TREN!!!

Where'd you hear that,Due to the Ester Weight Tren Enth has 20-30% less hormone then tren ace...I would agree though that you will want to be more careful w/ a long ester tren for the fact that if you start getting sides you won't be able to just stop the shots as w/ short estered acetate...Tren in general is some serious sh1t.not for beginners...RESPECT THE TREN!!!

Yeah I am a huge tren fan,I've got to the point where I run 150mg ed tren ace,taking drol/dbol,and 200mg T prop ed....thats my typical short ester (lean bulk) cycle...

I ran tren E 1,500mg a week for 2-3 weeks just a couple weeks ago and it felt nothing like running tren ace...tren ace will light you on fire,one of the few steroids that just rips fat off me like nothing else...its not proven but ask anyone,heavy tren ace and you'll have veins poppin' out everywhere....not much other gear will take/keep fat off like tren,tren is some very strong stuff,and usually you will get the worst sides you could possibly get from tren...vs other gear...Lots of water is vital ...tren makes me a straight up A$$hole to be around too,but then again I'm already an A$$hole,just provokes it I suppose...

Yeah I am a huge tren fan,I've got to the point where I run 150mg ed tren ace,taking drol/dbol,and 200mg T prop ed....thats my typical short ester (lean bulk) cycle...

I ran tren E 1,500mg a week for 2-3 weeks just a couple weeks ago and it felt nothing like running tren ace...tren ace will light you on fire,one of the few steroids that just rips fat off me like nothing else...its not proven but ask anyone,heavy tren ace and you'll have veins poppin' out everywhere....not much other gear will take/keep fat off like tren,tren is some very strong stuff,and usually you will get the worst sides you could possibly get from tren...vs other gear...Lots of water is vital ...tren makes me a straight up A$$hole to be around too,but then again I'm already an A$$hole,just provokes it I suppose...

if i every shave my head or lose too much hair i'll run it again. but for now i'll be a pretty boy and stay away from tren so i can keep my hair around longer

this is another way that i could make it practical......this would require an extra vial of test for some extra weeks.....at that dosage im concerned about acne and bloat especially in the face......i might just run it lower dose and have some extra test laying around. still undecided on oral.

W/ the Arimidex,sho really shouldn't get any bloat,even if you do it goes away,its never bad anyways,I kinda like some bloat,tells me everything is working as it should...good way to tell fake gear..and for Orals,I'd suggest for you Anadrol50mg/Dbol30mg.....take the drol in the morning,and the dbol split throughout the day,Drol/Dbol together has always worked best for me...Lethal Combo,nothing better...Honestly if you could get away with running 100mgdrol/100mg dbol...ed for 12+ WEEKS ,You'd be one huge MoFo...Too bad orals are so harsh on the body...

W/ the Arimidex,sho really shouldn't get any bloat,even if you do it goes away,its never bad anyways,I kinda like some bloat,tells me everything is working as it should...good way to tell fake gear..and for Orals,I'd suggest for you Anadrol50mg/Dbol30mg.....take the drol in the morning,and the dbol split throughout the day,Drol/Dbol together has always worked best for me...Lethal Combo,nothing better...Honestly if you could get away with running 100mgdrol/100mg dbol...ed for 12+ WEEKS ,You'd be one huge MoFo...Too bad orals are so harsh on the body...

Yeah I am a huge tren fan,I've got to the point where I run 150mg ed tren ace,taking drol/dbol,and 200mg T prop ed....thats my typical short ester (lean bulk) cycle...

I ran tren E 1,500mg a week for 2-3 weeks just a couple weeks ago and it felt nothing like running tren ace...tren ace will light you on fire,one of the few steroids that just rips fat off me like nothing else...its not proven but ask anyone,heavy tren ace and you'll have veins poppin' out everywhere....not much other gear will take/keep fat off like tren,tren is some very strong stuff,and usually you will get the worst sides you could possibly get from tren...vs other gear...Lots of water is vital ...tren makes me a straight up A$$hole to be around too,but then again I'm already an A$$hole,just provokes it I suppose...

getswole the more of your posts that i read...the more i realize i need to just take more gear.

tren is the gear of the gods. god makes men. men make tren. tren makes man, god.

Where'd you hear that,Due to the Ester Weight Tren Enth has 20-30% less hormone then tren ace...I would agree though that you will want to be more careful w/ a long ester tren for the fact that if you start getting sides you won't be able to just stop the shots as w/ short estered acetate...Tren in general is some serious sh1t.not for beginners...RESPECT THE TREN!!!

If you want a higher dose of Tren and less frequent shots you will want to consider Tren Enanthate. This is an extremely powerful steroid and not for beginners.Trenabol 200 is a long-acting injectable steroid with a great effect on protein metabolism. Trenbolone is one of the best effective anabolic compounds, promoting protein synthesis, as well as creating a positive nitrogen balance. It is an appetite stimulant and improves the conversion of proteins. In laboratory tests, it has been demonstrated that trenbolone increases protein and decreases fat deposition. It has proven to be an excellent product for promoting size and strength in the presence of adequate protein and calories, promotes body tissue building processes, and can reverse catabolism. Due to its particular ester, trenbolone enanthate is slower-acting than trenbolone acetate and faster acting than trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate. Based on its molecular structure, trenabol enanthate is theoretically stronger than either trenbolone acetate or trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate.

Where's that from,doesn't make any sense...unless they're just kinda saying be more careful as its a longer ester,which I can understand.I was just curious where you heard that from.Cause I've used every form of tren known to man,and let me say by all means the shorter the ester the stronger that stuff is,Anyone besides me shot A Waterbase Tren Base Susp 3x ed,if you think tren ace is some heavy sh1t,get your hands on some Tren Base Susp some time,Its so stout I could seriously see how someone could put theirselves in the ER of the stuff,OMG if you hit a vein by mistake,I think it might just kill you...Bar none the stoutest shots I've ever taken....I'm a big fan of waterbase Base susp's...Talk about fast acting...and of course you can use slin pins when its waterbase...

I wish I could give you the link...but it's from a sources write-up...

I understand what your saying though...but I think that the longer ester and the build up can prove to be a bad thing. I mean you do use less mg/day with enanthate then you would with acetate, so it makes sense...

getswole the more of your posts that i read...the more i realize i need to just take more gear.

tren is the gear of the gods. god makes men. men make tren. tren makes man, god.

Yeah,thats me,Tren is some badass sh1t for sure...I look at it like this,If you got it,use it..Kinda like if you got too sexy girls on your hands one night,you gonna bang just one of them and be happy?Hell no,your gonna bang both of them and have a story to tell.I'm just of the mind that you never know what will happen tomorrow,so why not live today to the fullest...you can be as careful and modest with your gear dosing and a 747 could crash into your bedroom and kill you in your sleep,Life is short,Enjoy it...Noones living to 70-80 yrs old anymore anyways barely.Even if they do they're in wheels chairs,dentures and lucky if they're not wearing adult diapers...

Thats being said,I'm retarted,don't do any of the things I do...Also to point out I'm 28,I myself wouldn't even do the things I do if I when 21-22,etc...this is a key point..By all means if less works for you then why waste good gear.
I think Once you've crossed over to the "darkside" of high doeses of gear,and felt those kind of blood levels,its hard to go back to moderate dosing...I'll actually be probably putting myself on HRT between cycles within a few years,I'm pretty positive I could probably get prescribed some test anyways,Know a couple younger guys that are already on HRT and much younger than me...both of them still cycle...one of them keeps his gains and doesn't even really PCT,other than to combat gyno/etc...kinda makes you think...
I mean as soon as your done cycling,its back to your doc prescribed maintenence dose of Test Cyp 200mg a week...kinda makes keeping gains pretty easy if you think about it,Some of the Old school guys would use low dose test as pct back in the day anyways,Although I love some HCG,but I hate clomid,that stuff breaks me out for real...

Oh I agree completely,Right now I could make ten full cycles out of my current 8 wkr...so yes,def alot of gear,....too much????for some maybe,for others probably not...Would Coleman say Its too much..doubt it,well actually he would since he swears to be NAtty,lol....besides their endorsement deals,you will never really hear from many top pros what works for them,its their trade secret,I HONESLTY FEEL LIKE 95% OF WHAT YOU READ ON THESE TYPE Forums and online in general,is just the same repetitive BS that some scrawny high school kid just read some where and reposted somewhere else,fact is there aren't alot of human trials as far as body building purposes concerning steroid use,for obvious reasons,But I suggest everyone experiment for theirselves,some also respond less to gear,and some respond better,just like some have better genetics and some don't its all a guessing agme and just going by what you read somewhere is just most likely that repetive crap I'm talking about,If you don't try upping your doses,you will never know.A while back I was chattin w/ Beelze,he said something I liked,he said "I'd rather look back and regret doing something,than regret NOT doing something."You have to be open minded,if its too much your body will tell you,HEY ****er,thats too much!!You just have to listen...

just to play devils advocate...like usual...i have spoken candidly with a few top level NPC guys and I know the basics of what they use (granted I have never seen them inject) but it's not that much. I think the addition of growth has brought a lot of the useage down...

I mean I'm 210 @ 5'11 and probably around 8%, and I'm only on my first 'real' cycle...

just to play devils advocate...like usual...i have spoken candidly with a few top level NPC guys and I know the basics of what they use (granted I have never seen them inject) but it's not that much. I think the addition of growth has brought a lot of the useage down...

I mean I'm 210 @ 5'11 and probably around 8%, and I'm only on my first 'real' cycle...

growth, igf-1, and myostatin inhibitors have made this a whole new ball game.

not to mention that permanent gene therapy already exists (1 injection...gene inserted into your genome for life) to cause the body to produce 200% of its natural MGF levles. I havent heard of anyone being able to get their hands on this...but it wouldnt surprise me if top level olympic, nfl, BB,PL are already looking into it.

i think getswoles current cycle is insane...but it seems to be done somewhat for novelty purposes.

It is alot of fun,no doubt about that,you think you feel good on 500mg test ew,imagine how good you feel on 5,000mg Test ew....it must be experienced..Its kinda like this,lets bsay you just bought a brand new charger w/ a hemi in it,your lovin' it,its fast/lots of torque,you love your new car,well heres comes your buddy who just bought a new $2mil Ferrari Enzo (0-60 in 3 secs),he hands you the keys,says here drive my car for a week,I'll be out of town...well after driving around that sh1t all week and handing back the keys,and driving home in your new charger,all the sudden your charger feels like a ****in moped w/ 4 wheels....Kinda like the sayings,Once you go black,you'll never go back,,that sorta thing,if that makes any sense,lol..In a sense I shouldn't have done it,cause now a normal dose is gonna feel like a ****in' tylenol....