(Due to the WordPress global change of embedding an mp3 player rather than showing the URL, I have added spaces in the URL to fool the system. You will need to copy & paste the URL into your browser, getting rid of the extra spaces I added to avoid the embedded player. WordPress tells me they are working on a solution to this problem)

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Guest: Dr. Pat Patterson. Topics: We take a look at the 2015 SmallSat Conference from August 8-13 in Logan, Utah on the campus of Utah State University. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See http://www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience. We welcomed Dr. Pat Patterson back to the program to discuss the upcoming 2015 SmallSat Conference to be held in Logan, UT from August 8-13. During our one segment 60 minute discussion, Dr. Patterson not only provided us with the history of the SmallSat conference over nearly three decades, but we focused on many of the highlights for this year’s event. You can follow along with us at the conference website, www.smallsat.org. In addition to talking about the keynote speaker, the CubeSat workshop, student completion, ride sharing, exhibitors, and more, we also talked conference logistics for registration and hotels in and near Logan. Dr. Patterson talked about the social events, networking, and the side programs offered this year. Highlights of the social events take place Tuesday evening with the parties by Orbital ATK and then by SpaceX & Space Services. Toward the end of the discussion, Pat reviewed smallsat industry stats over the past four years documenting the growth and changes within the industry, plus future smallsat plans which if they actually happened, the launch capacity for small satellites would have to significantly improve and expand. Still, the growth stats are reflective of the exciting progress in this segment of the space industry. If you are able to attend SmallSat this year, let me know and please give us reports about it on future Space Show programs.

Post your comments/questions on The Space Show blog above. You can reach Dr. Patterson through me at drspace@thespaceshow.com. The SmallSat Conference support staff can be contacted through the SmallSat website should you need their assistance.

Guest: Dr. Charles Limoli. Topics: We discussed space radiation in the context of his paper, “What Happens To Your Brain On The Way To Mars?” Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience. We welcomed Dr. Charles Limoli to the program for this 90 minute discussion on space radiation and astronauts, especially flying in deep space, going to Mars or back to the Moon, evening residing on the Moon or Mars. You can read his paper which has been uploaded to The Space Show blog for this program. During the first segment, Dr. Limoli outlined the basics of his research. Before going deeper into the topic, I asked him several questions about the use of rodents and mice for the experiments, the possible use of other animals, the constraints and limitations of radiation simulation experiments, plus how these radiation experiments and doses differ from humans getting radiation treatment for cancer or other medical problems. We had quite the discussion on rodent brains compared to human brains, animal experiments in general, plus the protocols used in his experiments which were all carried out at Brookhaven. By the way, Dr. Limoli is a space advocate, he has received NASA funding for years, and he and his team have a great interest in radiation issues for human spaceflight. Dr. Limoli then took time to tell us how the experiments were conducted. Some of the discussion is technical so I suggest you read his paper which has been placed on TSS blog. Dr. Limoli went into significant detail to tell us how they conducted the experiments, applied the low dose radiation to the subjects, and how they evaluated the results. Don’t miss his description and analysis of the experiments. He said the changes were subtle measured 6-8 weeks out but he also said future papers may show that the cognitive changes continued to happen over a much longer period of time. In response to one of my questions, he said there was no sign of recovery. The primary changes that were observed and reported in the paper had to do with cognitive impairment which we discussed in detail throughout this program. I asked our guest about age, gender, race, and cultural differences. I also asked if NASA was now doing or might do in the future some genetic screening to find those best suited for a high radiation environment. Space settlement risks were talked about as was childbirth and pregnancy. Dr. Doug from S. California called to talk about GCR shielding. He wanted to inquire about using the stuff on the mission, food, water, supplies, etc. for shielding. He suggested the strategic placement of the stuff to maximize shielding. Dr. Limoli did say this was all factored in but that GCRs are non-directional so they come in from everywhere so such “stuff” shielding would only be partially helpful in protecting against radiation. For now, it would have to remain an unanswered question pending getting more research data. In this discussion, Dr. Limoli did explain the components of GCR and what they do to the body and the brain’s cognitive ability.

In the second segment, we took listener questions including several from our friend Dr. Logan. One such question wanted to focus on how deep you would need to go into the Martian surface to equal the protection of Earth’s radiation shielding. Our guest was not sure of the actual calculation but estimated 4-5 meters. Tim in Boston sent in a note quoting what Dr. Zubrin said about Dr. Limoli’s research project per his critique of the paper published in The Space Review May 11, 2015. Dr. Limoli said that what Dr. Zubrin was saying was wrong regarding the details of the experiment. It was a very interesting discussion so don’t miss it. Rhonda wanted to know what Dr. Limoli would say to Elon Musk were he charged with consulting for Elon for his Mars plan and desired mission. Don’t miss what he said he would tell Elon. Later in the segment, I asked our guest to connect the dots with radiation issues and the other human factors medical conditions. This too proved to be an interesting discussion so don’t miss this one either. Charles was asked to talk in more detail about the observed cognitive changes and the actual tests used to reach their conclusions. In his closing remarks, he stressed how important continued research was and strongly urged listeners to support science research, write our congressmen and women, lobby for and advocate more research as it is the research that will give us more information to mitigate and resolve our spaceflight challenges.

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Guest: Jim Muncy: Topics: Space Policy, budget issues, company overviews, and more. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

We welcomed Jim Muncy back to the program to discuss current space policy and budget issues before the U.S. Congress, company updates, and much more. During the first segment of our 1 hour 50 minute discussion, Jim provided us with the groundwork for most of our discussion by going back to the Commercial Space Launch Act of 1984, then the update to it known as the Commercial Space Launch Amendments Act of 2004. He talked about both the House and Senate versions of the NASA and space budget bills and some of the differences between the two bills. One difference which he explained in detail early in the second segment had to do with the learning period which is important for the developing industry. Another difference between the two revolved around extending the ISS commitment to 2024 plus issues relating to BLEO space. When asked if he thought the final bill would be signed or vetoed by the president, he said it was nonpartisan and he did not see problems getting it signed into law. Listeners asked about funding SLS. Much was said about SLS in both segments but one listener asked Jim why so many supported SLS given its shortcomings. Jim explained the mindset of many SLS supporters in congress. As you will hear, SLS is hardly a black or white issue. This discussion led to a related discussion on developing a new rocket engine, the issues involved, the competitors, methane versus other fuel, and more. In particular, he used Alabama Congressman Mike Rogers as an example supporting is analysis of the situation. Jim was asked about the impact of the Falcon 9 failure which led him to address the need for multiple launchers and competition. Later, Alex asked him about his areas of concern regarding the pending budget legislation. He talked about sequestration, spending caps, delays, and the problem with operating on a CR which is likely. This is a lengthy but important discussion so don’t miss it. Before the segment ended, Jim was asked about the lunar lander. Jim then talked about the Flexible Path, Google Lunar XPrize, cislunar space development and Mars. Jim advocated the need for public private partnerships, then he was asked about international partnerships.

In the second segment, we started with an email question from Doug inquiring about the Augustine Commission presenting an option for returning to the Moon with landers developed in a public-private program context. After Jim’s response, I asked him to refer back to a comment he made in the first segment and to explain what was meant by the learning period. This was an important discussion so don’t miss it. As part of his response, he also provided a short overview of the suborbital industry and participants plus the orbital industry. A good portion of this segment focused on the importance of the learning period. Our last question of the evening was from Helen. She asked Jim if it would be beneficial to ask political candidates in the 2016 races space related questions assuming they know nothing about space. Jim supported the idea but he told us all to make the question broader than just what interests us in the space industry. He gave several examples of this. What he said made sense to me so I urge all of you who get a chance to question a 2016 candidate, ask your space question the way Jim suggested.

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Guest: Dr. Clark Lindsey. Topics: We reviewed current issues and happenings across the full spectrum of the space industry. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

We welcomed Dr. Clark Lindsey back to the program for a wide ranging discussion on space industry news and issues. During the first segment of our 1 hour 47 minute program, Clark started out by talking about the changes over the years in the small satellite industry. He referenced several companies making news such as One World, Spire, Planet Labs, Skybox, Rocket Lab, Firefly, plus others. This brought him to an interesting cubesat discussion. Next up was the Falcon 9 launch failure from a few days ago. He did not have any new information and we are all still waiting for the cause of the mishap to be stated. He did clarify some of the confusion around the Air Force having sent a destruct signal to the Falcon 9. He said such a signal was sent but about 90 seconds after the event. We then talked about other rocket launch failures in the early days of the Arianne, Atlas & Delta history. Clark was asked about policy issues surrounding the RD-180 engine buy, Senator McCain, commercial crew, and congressional leanings at this point in time. Listeners asked him if he thought SpaceX was seriously hurt by the Falcon 9 accident. He said he thought the company was definitely wounded but it was too early to determine how badly the wound might be. He mentioned the Google billion dollar investment in SpaceX, their commercial manifest and more. Joe in Dallas wanted to know how he thought the Falcon Heavy schedule might be altered as a result of the launch failure. Clark talked about other work being carried out by SpaceX plus he offered some ideas on how testing of any new Falcon 9 systems might be integrated into testing other SpaceX projects including the Falcon Heavy. Jack in Boston wanted to know if Clark had any information on Virgin Galactic. Clark talked about XCOR in his answer and said the companies would likely be adopting a very slow go time table to assure no further mishaps.

In the second segment, we started discussing Clark’s slide presentation on the satellite industry per his talk at Space Access 2015. You can find these slides on The Space Show blog post for this program as I uploaded them to the blog with Clark’s permission. As you will hear later in this segment, we got sidetracked by listener questions and calls so Clark did not get to finish going through the slide presentation so I urge you to view the slides on your own as they certainly clarify the commercial markets and more for many of the satellite markets and uses. Earlier in the segment, Clark did talk about the GEO communication market, also the small satellite market for both LEO and MEO. He was optimistic that commercial companies will start to emerge to address the launch market issues for the small satellites. Clark did talk about the market for these satellites for tracking maritime shipping. He has a special slide illustrating this but from what Clark said, it sounds like a potentially very lucrative market to exploit. Clark fielded some questions about the legal and regulator regime for commercial space and said that not only was the technology pushing the frontiers of development, so were the space law and regulatory issues pushing the frontier for moving the industry forward. He used space debris removal as an example. Tim from Brooklyn sent in a note asking about space tugs and Falcon Heavy which was followed by a good discussion on SLS, space tugs, fuel depots, and one’s space vision for the future as SLS John called in to talk SLS and more with Clark. Tim wanted to know just what we could do today and over the next 5 years with a space tug and the Falcon Heavy. Don’t miss what Clark had to say in response to this question. As we neared the end of the program, Clark provided a sort of short rocket industry overview for us, he talked deep space rocketry, & cost effective SpaceX manufacturing processes. He quickly summarized several of his slides that we did not have time to discuss, then we both offered summary statements about the positive direction commercial space has been going in recent years, despite setbacks, with both of us believing the growth and progress will continue.

Please post your comments/Questions for Dr. Clark Lindsey on TSS blog above. You can reach Clark through his website or me.

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Guests: Open Lines with Dr. David Livingston; Topics: Falcon 9 launch failure, SpaceX, New Horizons, Pluto, and more. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See http://www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

Welcome to our last Open Lines program for June 2015. During the first segment of our 2 hour 9 minute program, we started off with my customary suggestion of a few topics including the Falcon 9 launch failure and a Space Review article from June 8 of this year by Dr. Sam Dinkin, “How much money would it take to launch enterprise into space? (See www.thespacereviewe.com/article/2766/1). Our first caller, Dr. Dwayne Day, wanted to talk about Sam’s article and analysis. We had an interesting discussion on its contents but see what you think after reading the short article. Dwayne also talked about the coming Pluto flyby by New Horizons. I then asked Dwayne for his thoughts on the Falcon 9 launch failure. Dwayne offered us several interesting observations about the launch failure and SpaceX. Our next caller was Tim from Huntsville and he too wanted to talk about the Falcon 9 launch attempt. He kept repeating we have to do better than chemical rockets. Before the break, I read an email that came in from Kelly. Kelly is not a fan or supporter of SpaceX but as you know, The Space Show is willing to air all sides of an argument so I read Kelly’s email on air as it had much to say that was critical about SpaceX.

In the second segment Kelly was our first caller. I put it to Kelly to support his critical comments about the company. Kelly then talked about lots of issues about SpaceX processes ranging from parts, manufacturing, cutting corners, safety and more. Several listeners sent in emails asking Kelly direct questions about what he was saying. I made it clear that I did not agree with much of what he was saying but you give it some thought and decide the issue for yourself. Keep in mind that it is not unusual for a new rocket to have problems, even to fail to reach orbit. Sometimes many flights have to take place to discover a problem. As I said, I have every confidence that SpaceX will fix whatever the problem is and resume launches as soon as possible. Kelly sent in a few additional emails during the balance of the show to support the claims he was making. Our next caller was Dr. Doug from S. California. Doug wanted to talk about the Falcon 9 launch and the need for multiple launchers which he said were a good thing. Listner Karen emailed us with a question about the Falcon 9 debris field, then Tim called back, then Michael Listner called to continue talking about New Horizons and Pluto. During Michael’s call, he got a listener question asking if the money would have been better spent on a Uranus mission. He also talked about the possible regulatory impact of the Falcon 9 loss including RD180 engines, ULA, Air Force certification, and fallout with Senator McCain on his subcommittee regarding the RD180 engines. Dwayne called back to talk Pluto, the Decadal Survey and planetary missions, plus he talked about the Applied Physics Lab (APL), the Uranus mission mentioned earlier by a listeners and more.

Please post your comments/questions on The Space Show blog above. You can reach all the callers and emailers through me.

Guest: Bob Zimmerman. Topics: Commercial space historical overview, launch industry, space news, rockets, & more. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

We welcomed Bob Zimmerman back to the program to discuss a variety of commercial space, space news, and related topics. During the first segment of our 1 hour 56 minute discussion, Bob started out with an historical overview of the progress made in developing the commercial space industry, a U.S. cargo capability to the ISS, and eventually the U.S. capability of carrying astronauts back to the ISS. He started his timeline in 2004, specifically addressing the time since President Obama came to office. For almost the entire first segment, Bob noted milestones, progress, company developments, the beginning of competition and much more. Later in the segment, he mentioned what he said was the lack of progress in the suborbital industry during the time period he had been talking about and suggested that the suborbital companies may be missing parts of the market given their continued delays. He talked about this in more detail during the second segment. He also talked about human spaceflight (HSF), SLS, Falcon and SpaceX as a game changer, the efforts of Sierra-Nevada to continue on with Dream Chaser, & his opinion that it will likely be the private sector that manages HSF to the Moon and Mars rather than a public program. We talked about public opinion and space, then Marshall called to ask questions about China, their space program, plus a possible Chinese impact on our space policy. Bob had much to say about the Chinese program, then he had about an equal amount to say about the Russian program. Sylvester emailed in to also ask about China, specifically if Bob thought we would soon be cooperating with one another in space. Bob seized this opportunity to make it very clear as to why he disliked international partnerships, instead preferring competition. Before the segment ended, Beth asked Bob for his thoughts on the Moon-Mars debate.

In the second segment, Kristen started us off talking about LightSail. Bob had much to say about the mission, The Planetary Society, how it was funded, and the fact that it was based around using cubesats. He then spoke to the success of cubesats and how they are changing aspects of the industry. Bob jumped to Comet 67 P, the Rosetta mission and the Philae Lander. He used this opportunity to provide an overview of planetary missions starting in 1957. In talking about the success of planetary missions, he mentioned the Dawn mission to Ceres and Vesta plus many more. I asked Bob about New Horizons and Pluto. Bob had much to say about Pluto, its moons, & specifically the moon Charon. Other topics that came up as we neared the close of the show included the Europa mission and an effort to use crowd funding to make a porno film in space. This prompted Bob to say a few words about sex in space, plus he thought the porno film was just a PR stunt. Before the show ended, Tim in Huntsville asked for Bob to share his thoughts on the company Interorbital Systems. Bob then turned to the suborbitals having some things to say about Virgin Galactic, Blue Origins, and XCOR. He spoke to the need for redundancy, mentioned possible Stratolaunch problems with Orbital ATK no longer working with them on the rocket, then suggested some things to watch for in the second half of this year and closed out with a summary of key points he made during this program. Check out Bob’s blog, www.behindtheblack.com.

Please post your comments/questions on TSS blog above. You can reach Bob through his blog or me.

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Guest: William (Bill) Harwood; Topics: Space news, policy, & notable events now & throughout our space history. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

We welcomed Bill Harwood of CBS Space News back to the show for this 80 minute discussion. During the first segment, I asked Bill for a bit of his personal history going back to when he first started doing space news with UPI. Next, I asked him what over the years has impressed him the most regarding space activities. Don’t miss what he had to say about this as multiple space events were on his list. In addition, I brought up the Planetary Society success with LightSail, their solar sail demo project. Bill talked about the mission, what is planned next for a larger, more lasting solar sail project, and the fact that The Planetary Society funded the $4.5 million cost from contributions by Planetary Society donors. Also in the news was the NASA “flying Saucer” which was really the demo of a new landing system for Mars using a huge (the largest ever) supersonic parachute 100′ across. Bill went into detail on the mission, even how it got tagged a “flying saucer” which he said was the responsibility of the media. Listener Robert sent in an email asking for Bill’s position on the Moon-Mars debate. Bill talked about benefits from both positions but did not share his personal preference as he wanted to stay strictly with reporting the news, not offering an editorial. That said, his discussion of the debate and the pros and cons of each side was most interesting. We talked some about planetary missions but honed in on New Horizons and Pluto. Also mentioned was the upcoming Europa Mission, then listener Carolyn asked him what he saw for human spaceflight over the next few years. Ben wanted to know if the private sector could take us back to the Moon. Bill had much to say about the emerging commercial industry but in the end suggested that the costs were so high along with very high risks that government would be the one to do it for a long time to come. Don’t miss what he had to say about both costs and risks. Russia and their hardware issues came up, then we had quite a discussion on commercial crew, not fully funding it, and continuing to pay the Russians rather than getting the job done with American providers. John from Ft. Worth gave us a call to talk about the SpaceX subsidies for Falcon 9, wondering if the price of a Falcon 9 launch was the true launch cost or a subsidized cost. John and Bill had an interesting discussion on this with a few added comments by yours truly. John also used the time to repeat his position that going to the Moon was essential before going to Mars and that SLS was likely a place holder for labor and technology until we have a different space policy with different space leadership. Bill talked about variables and lots of unknowns, including wild cards from China and other sources that could end up driving U.S. space policy and progress.

In the second segment, we talked about public private partnerships citing SpaceX as a good example of such a partnership. That said, Bill talked about the need for the commercials to have a destination such as the ISS for their goods and services but that is harder to realize with planetary missions. He said their needed to be something to do with the means to do it. This brought us to a space infrastructure discussion and the possible role of the government in building and paying for space infrastructure, especially to support industrial growth. Bill then address risk in much more detail. This is a discussion you don’t want to miss. We talked vehicle safety, Virgin Galactic, deep space missions, and much more. Barbara in Chicago asked Bill about frustrations and how the frustration level has changed over the three plus decades he has been covering space news. Bill took a few questions about the ISS and the potential closing of it in 2024. He was asked if we were in a space race with China and did not realize it. Carl inquired about the Indian space program, then Bill talked some more about the CST-100, the Dragon, remodeling the ISS for Independent Docking Adapters for the two vehicles and he even responded to a question about Dream Chaser. More was said about the ISS, plus he told us he met a person at NASA who was in charge of figuring out how to deorbit the ISS which weighs about 900,000 lbs. and moves at 5 miles a second. This is in advance of a probable 2024 termination date. In his closing comments, he said the public needed to let Congress know about their support for space. He also reminded us that space was dangerous, costly, and very risky. Before the show ended, I asked if he had seen rockets blow up on the pad. He had and he shared a few stories with us.

Please post your comments/questions on TSS blog above. If you want to email Mr. Harwood, you can do so through me.

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Guest: Dan Adamo. Topics: Mars human spaceflight, robotic exploration, space policy, heavy lift economics, and much more. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

We welcomed back Dan Adamo to the show for this 2 hour 36 minute comprehensive discussion regarding HSF to Mars, the Second Mars Affordability and Sustainability Workshop report and much more. During the first segment of our program, Dan started out by telling us the process used to engage him reviewing said report and writing his critique of it which is on The Space Show blog (https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com). Topics discussed in this segment included the use of Low Latency Telepresence (LLT) as compared to High Latency Telepresence (HLT), the absence of human factors and aerospace medical personnel in attendance and said issues missing from the workshop report. Dan said the key missing information included radiation as well as microgravity concerns. Dan then questioned the existence of a compelling rational for humans going to Mars. This became a recurring discussion topic throughout today’s program. Space settlement came up & so did a possible space race with China. The subject of a rescue mission came up but there was a detailed rescue mission discussion near the end of the program in the second segment. Dan was asked about the minimum crew size to operate an LLT program from Deimos or in orbit around Mars. Several emails were sent in including one by Dr. Jurist addressing high acceleration upon return from Mars. Dan then suggested the stepping stone approach, starting with cis-lunar space. Doug sent in questions about heavy lift versus using already large commercial rockets. Dan and Doug discussed this, then later in the second segment, Doug asked more questions on this topic. For now they talked about going to Deimos with a Falcon Heavy. Dan pointed out the need for many more launches and rendezvous missions as compared to one or two SLS type rocket launch. He questioned if we can’t afford SLS launches, how do we afford even more launches and rendezvous missions. Marshal emailed us wanting to know about the possibility of lava tube plans . BJohn asked this guest about a possible Mars cycler & then we moved to the second segment.

In the second segment, I asked Dan what he thought the impact on space policy might be vis a vis the workshop being discussed on this program. Don’t miss his reply. Doug asked a question inquiring if for the same cost it would take to send humans to either Deimos or to the Martian surface, one could send many high-latency rovers to multiple locations far from each other to give the rovers many chances to discover evidence for life in different types of places? This brought us several exchanges comparing LLT with HLT, heavy lift versus smaller rockets and more. Doug and Dan has several exchanges during this segment, especially when the topic of rescue missions came up. Ted in Boston asked about the rational for going to Mars, referenced the recent program with Dr. Zubrin, and the payoff or benefits for a human Mars mission. Dan had much to say about this so don’t miss it. John from Ft. Worth called to say we were not yet technically ready for Mars and we should use the stepping stone method and focus in cis-lunar development and exploration. As an example, Dan & John talked about the need to know the actual gravity RX for humans. Dan said we should have a short arm centrifuge on the ISS helping to figure this out but that there was no policy to do that. We turned to the topic of rescue and I told listeners what I found out about who pays for rescues when I did some quick and dirty research on this a few weeks ago. The issue of rescue and how it might happen on a Mars mission or even in cis-lunar space came up with many listener emails including several by Doug putting forth various rescue scenarios. For the most part, since we have no launch on demand, no rockets, pads or hardware sitting around ready to be used at a moments notice and we have to contend with launch windows, it does not seem feasible that a Mars rescue mission could be implemented, possibly not even a lunar rescue mission. Doug suggested a scenario where multiple ships left for Mars at the same time and then if one got in trouble, the others could rescue the problem ship. Dan talked about the physics and mass of what would be needed to do that. You decide if it might be feasible for such a rescue scenario to be implemented. Let us know your thoughts on the blog. If the rescue party is already on Mars, rescue will be unlikely given the state of the art today. Michael Listner suggested the absence of a realistic rescue plan may hinder the issuing of a launch license. In his closing comments, Dan focused on the workshop critique saying that the sponsors would have been better served if participation had been opened up and had including human factors and aerospace medicine professionals.

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Guests: John Batchelor, William (Bill) Harwood, Dr. David Livingston. Topics: Air Force X37-B, ULA, SpaceX & more. You are invited to comment, ask questions, and discuss the Space Show program/guest(s) on the Space Show blog. Comments, questions, and any discussion must be relevant and applicable to Space Show programming. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are not permitted without prior written consent from The Space Show (even if for personal use) & are a violation of the Space Show copyright. We do not permit the commercial use of any Space Show program or part thereof, nor do we permit Space Show programs to be edited, placed on YouTube, or other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted in news articles, papers, academic & research work but must be cited or referenced in the proper citation format. Contact Dr. Livingston for questions about our copyright and trademark policies which we do enforce. This program is archived on The Space Show website, podcasting, and blog sites with permission from John Batchelor. Please visit the John Batchelor Show website for more information about this fine program, www.johnbatchelorshow.com. Remember, your Amazon Purchases Can Help Support The Space Show/OGLF (www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm). For those of you listening to archives on live365.com & rating the programs, please email me the reasons for your rating. This will definitely help improve Space Show programming. Thank you. Please note that audio and transition issues are a result of copying the John Batchelor broadcast & are not within my control as they originate in the Batchelor studio.

John Batchelor and I welcomed back William (Bill) Harwood, CBS Space News Reporter, to update us on the X37-B Air Force launch by ULA on an Atlas 5, the 10 cubesats that were on board, and the Planetary Society LightSail mission which was also launched on the same Atlas 5 rocket. Bill talked about the secrecy of the X37-B project, the cubesats, and the solar sails which make up the LightSail mission. We then talked about SpaceX and their recent pad abort test, the progress being made on the spaceport work at Boca Chica near Brownsville, TX. Other topics included the Dragon capsule taking cargo to and from the ISS plus the differences in the cargo Dragon and the human Dragon once it starts operations.

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Guest: Dr. Eligar Sadeh. Topic: Public Private Partnerships for U.S. space launch systems, cis lunar development & more. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

We welcomed Dr. Eligar Sadeh back to the show to discuss his recent Astropolitics published article, “Report: Public Private Partnerships and the Development of Space Launch Systems in the United States.” You can find this report on The Space Show blog for this particular program. During the first segment of our 92 minute program, Dr. Sadeh introduced us to the topic and the Report subjects which you can read on TSS blog. He addressed the traditional aerospace contracting model, the problem with cost overruns which hurt the traditional model and some of the issues with fixed price contracts, especially with technology and commercial opportunities. We talked about risk reward and he cited SpaceX and Orbital Sciences as examples of the success of the private public partnership type of arrangement. In addition, Eligar suggested that such partnerships were supportive of developing programs such as space transportation services. Other topics in the first segment included SLS, National Security Space, big science programs, planetary missions, and others that still use the traditional model. Our guest introduced us to the Better Buying Power approach which he referenced several times during the show. Tim called from Huntsville to talk about risk, profits, and cubesats. Eligar then went into some detail about the competitive launch environment, specifically for national security payloads and how that is now changing and opening up. Jake emailed us to inquire if Congress was fully on board with these new public private partnerships. Jennifer wanted to know how international participation might change the public private partnership relationship. Next, I asked Eligar to explain the Acquisition Death Spiral which was in Fig. 4 of his Report paper.

In the second segment, John from Ft. Worth was our first caller & he wanted to address the risk in a fixed price contract. John and Eligar had an interesting discussion on controlling costs and risks so don’t miss it. Later, I asked Eligar to explain the New Entrants Certification Guide (NECG) which was issued in 2011. This document provides the guidelines for the competitive launch environment for national security and other launch competitors. Our next caller, Doug, wanted to talk about public private partnerships beyond LEO, specifically the Moon. Eligar talked with Doug about leveraging assets for the private sector, citing the ISS and a few of the commercial users as examples. Both Doug and Eligar had a very interesting and comprehensive discussion on this topic which considered cislunar transportation, a lunar hab, possible commercial incentives to drive commercial involvement, and more. Policy and leadership were part of this discussion as was the fact that there currently is no lunar hab, Lunar Cots, or cislunar transportation policy nor is one being considered. After the discussion with Eligar ended, we used the balance of our time to discuss the likelihood of a fast moving lunar based Chinese space program influencing the US to fast track developing a lunar hab and cislunar transportation. Prior to our discussion ending, I asked Eligar how listeners could get copies of the journal Astropolitics as Eligar is the editor for it.

Please post your comments/questions on TSS blog above. You can each Dr. Sadeh through me or his email address on his Report on the blog.