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Is it me or executing five nameless blocks and beating the crap out of a woman was forgotten by everyone?

Anyway, the show is very well produced and directed, save for the fanservice shots, but I see them as a feature. Now, I wonder if they can manage a coherent story and character development... so it can be at least watchable, unlike the majority of NoitaminA shows, which tend to be ugly but with good stories (e.g. Shiki, H+C) or ugly and incoherent (the vast majority)

i dont know whats the deal with this series and people, comparing with a bunch of others... so far is one of th best this season(and we havent seen one this good in years), thats all that should matter.

i dont know whats the deal with this series and people, comparing with a bunch of others... so far is one of th best this season(and we havent seen one this good in years), thats all that should matter.

Nope the only quality of this series, deemed at top level in this season so far is supercell. Everything else is really sub par or below average.

Srsly i doubt people would watch this after 2 ep if it is not because Hiroyuki Yoshino and Ichirō Ōkouchi are the script director plus ryo's music.

i dont know whats the deal with this series and people, comparing with a bunch of others... so far is one of th best this season(and we havent seen one this good in years), thats all that should matter.

Even if I didn't compare this to Code Geass (in fact, the only time I did was in order to convince myself that the fanservice was unnecessary) or other mecha shows, Boku wa Tomodachi is entertaining me more than this show, and for a good reason: none of the characters are interesting.

That's the main problem with the show right now. I don't give a crap about any of them. As cliche and fanservicey as Boku Wa Tomodachi is, I at least find the characters mildly entertaining. For this show? The main? Terrible. The female? Terrible. Gai? Boring. That asshole? Okay, but not enough to save the show. Everyone else? Don't remember them. Animation is great and all, but if you don't care about the characters, what's the point? Why don't you just watch Code Geass instead?

With that said, it's been hyped so much that people are going to continue watching this for a while, and while the attention may be negative, it's still attention. On top of that, I've heard rumors that the show will change direction starting with next episode. Please do, because that main character is a boring tool, and the female needs a personality.

Edit: I also agree with somebody that this anime just felt like it was on auto-pilot for the first two episodes

Code Geass the first few episodes in, wasn't exactly an insane affair either except for the "Shoot yourself" part by Lelouch. Gai is a toned down version of Lelouch and I wouldn't be surprised if Shouma turns out to be a toned down version of Spinzaku.

Wait what exactly do Gai and Lelouch have in common? Also what exactly do you mean by "wasn't exactly an insane affair"? I think we're a little off base here, but then that's kind of not surprising given the growing talk about Code Geass in an unrelated thread.

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You also have to remember that Brittania was full of kick the puppy moments and was NEVER depicted in a grey light.

Spinzaku was a horrible character for the reason that the audience was supposed to root for a backstabbing traitor. We're not supposed to root for Daryl. Brittania was full of characters just as bad as Daryl.

Somebody looks like they have an agenda that's kind of irrelevant to the topic, but we'll play with this for now cause I think I can make this work out. First off....well....you're wrong actually. There were plenty of sympathetic characters for Britannia and it's here I think I can make this topic a little more relevant a comparison. We had characters like Cornelia, Jeremiah, Shirley, Euphemia, Milly, Nunally, Cecille, Lloyd....almost the entire cast of the school too, all with varying levels of sympathetic portrayal over the course of the series.

This is something I think is absolutely critical and needed in order to make Guilty Crown go down a little easier. Somewhere along the line we'll have to stop being so black and white about all of this and there will have to be at least one character from the occupation that isn't an eyes bulging out of the head maniac. Yes Code Geass had some of these too, but it also had sympathetic characters and it also had some characters on the Japanese side of the fight that were grey in their morality like Lelouch himself and arguably some of the more extreme members of the old resistance seen in episode 01. That made for some interesting interplay within and between the factions at times. Maybe Gai will be that character in Guilty Crown that will be the anti-hero type, but only time will tell.

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As for Inori, she again reminds of a toned down C.C. without any of the personality quirks. I wouldn't be surprised though if they explained something in her past which completely traumatized her to the point of stunting her emotional development.

Apparently without any of the personality either. That's indeed some kind of toning down.

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Originally Posted by Irenicus

Vaguely Baroque royalty, uniform, and architecture, world-dominant Britannian Empire, a shiny "neo"-Tokyo, princes and princesses in a Game of Thrones. Geass was only "real world" in a very limited sense. It was a stylized world straight from the first scene.

Guilty Crown is of course full of fantastic elements, but except for that Tower in Odaiba and some apparent decay Tokyo looks like...Tokyo. This sets a different expectation, closer to GitS (which had an American Empire and other "disparities" too) than Geass. An expectation swiftly betrayed and set straight, but jarring nonetheless.

I may tolerate evil overlord behavior from the aristocrats of rococo Britannia (actually...I don't), but a force that seems to be operating under some sort of international peacekeeping role has no business doing the same thing. That's why the blondie retard feels so out of place, even taking into account that this "Anti Body" special force appears to be an over-empowered rogue element. He's a good-for-nothing, sadistic Britannian aristocrat walking around in a world without a hint of aristocracy.

This is a good point. Because the setting is very much real (in a futuristic sense at least) it kind of clashes with the very surreal characters, factions and plot elements (the last one gets a pass for me so far, the middle one is my biggest beef with the show right now) and makes for a bit of a strange viewing. I think this is the heart of the problem with the show as it stands. If one is too adjust it's going to take some time cause I kind of came in expecting something a lot more mature than what has been presented so far. I think it's also fair to mention that Code Geass (woe as I am to keep bringing the topic up) had given it's main character motive by this point in the story and roped one into his revenge story and quest to give his sister a more peaceful world to grow up in. There were also issues of family infighting and a friendship gone awry introduced pretty early on as well. It made it personal and his character highly identifiable and arguably served to jump start the show quiet nicely.

So far nobody in this show really has a sympathetic portrayal and that I think is what makes it hard to identify with the situation or the characters in it. I mean yeah the GHQ is doing horrible things and the Funeral Parlor is trying to stop them....but it's an extremely basic portrayal of a standoff if ever there was one. My hope is that if we give it time Okouchi's contributions will start to take effect and hopefully the characters will open up and become easier to root for and cheer against in a way that isn't mildly sarcastic as it is for me personally right now.

With that said, it's been hyped so much that people are going to continue watching this for a while, and while the attention may be negative, it's still attention. On top of that, I've heard rumors that the show will change direction starting with next episode. Please do, because that main character is a boring tool, and the female needs a personality.

They change the setting in the end into school setting. So expect a slice of life presentation which I hope will bring more color the the MC and make the Heroine talk more because she has no character at all. Even facial expression lacks on her.

Tell you what if you don't use sales as an explanation for absolutely everything from here on out in the thread (barring of course issues where sales are relevant) I won't use ANN anymore to explain that there are two people working on the music from this project.

I brought up sales to explain why Ryo is promoted more than Sawano. Sawano's Blue Exorcist OST sold like 5k the first week and it is regarded as his piece de resistance. Ryo/Supercell otoh have sold albums in excess of over 100,000 copies.

This is why Ryo is mentioned in interviews and Sawano isn't, this is why Ryo is listed first in PVs and the actual OP. You ask why people keep giving Ryo all the credit and I'm telling you why. Because he's mentioned more often by staff and pushed more by the promotion of the show because his album from Guilty Crown will easily outsell the Sawano OST. (and it helps that one of his members did the original character designs so they'll clearly talk about supercell more...)

As far as most people are concerned they don't even know Sawano is working on this, even though he's leapt to the top level with firstly Unicorn and than Blue Exorcist, he is still far from a household name like Kanno or Kajiura. Sawano's basically replaced Taku Iwasaki as my favorite anime composer (I'm starting to think that Sawano is one of the aliens from Space Jam and sucked out Iwasaki's talent for making music so now Iwasaki is like Charles Barkley in that film )so it's not like I'm happy to see this misinformation spread, I'm simply explaining to you why it has happened.

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In any case yeah it's clearly demonstrated in the credits who does what (if in some of the hardest to read font I've seen in a while) as you point out so people just have to look there for all the details. It's a much more direct and explanatory example than the ANN one to be sure.

You referenced ANN to prove your claim that Sawano was listed first in the music credits, I said it was lolzy because ANN when they have multiple people under a position they list them alphabetically. That's why it's a horrible example, heck ANN don't even split the credits like the OP does (which lists Ryo first...) it's as simple as that.

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Also I think part of the problem with this shows music compared to Unicorn (haven't seen Exorcist) is that it's not the best fit for this type of show. The events of this show are pretty clown shoes whereas the events of Unicorn carry a lot of weight and history which Sawano's music serves to enhance. I'd have to hear both separately though to judge from a pure musical offering standpoint which I prefer. Anyway I think that puts an end to the topic for now.

I'm judging the music against each other, not the shows they're actually in. Whether or not Sawano can adjust his talents to adapt to a show or not is beside the point. The music shown so far while better than most of his early work is far from the level of Unicorn/AnE. Can it improve? Obviously, but that's also why I'm comparing it to the first 2 episodes of AnE and the first OVA of Unicorn.. things can change later on... Gundam SEED for instance had pretty terrible music for the early part (and SEED OST 1 is easily the worst in that franchise) but it became amazing by the end of it and that carried over into Destiny.

I brought up sales to explain why Ryo is promoted more than Sawano. Sawano's Blue Exorcist OST sold like 5k the first week and it is regarded as his piece de resistance. Ryo/Supercell otoh have sold albums in excess of over 100,000 copies.

This is why Ryo is mentioned in interviews and Sawano isn't, this is why Ryo is listed first in PVs and the actual OP. You ask why people keep giving Ryo all the credit and I'm telling you why. Because he's mentioned more often by staff and pushed more by the promotion of the show because his album from Guilty Crown will easily outsell the Sawano OST.

As far as most people are concerned they don't even know Sawano is working on this, even though he's leapt to the top level with firstly Unicorn and than Blue Exorcist, he is still far from a household name like Kanno or Kajiura. Sawano's basically replaced Taku Iwasaki as my favorite anime composer (I'm starting to think that Sawano is one of the aliens from Space Jam and sucked out Iwasaki's talent for making music so now Iwasaki is like Charles Barkley in that film )so it's not like I'm happy to see this misinformation spread, I'm simply explaining to you why it has happened.

Well that's popular music and promotion for you. Theme songs singles typically do outsell anime OST's anyway though cause I'm not sure many people really like listening to BGM on their Ipods like I do, but then again I'm different like that. As for Sawano, while he's climbing the ranks he still has about 3 more great OST's to go before he can be counted among the likes of Senju Akira (my personal favorite anime composer) for me.

Maybe we should work together on this one instead of butting heads for a change. Sawano definitely deserves more love and credit and I'm willing to work to see that it happens.

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You referenced ANN to prove your claim that Sawano was listed first in the music credits, I said it was lolzy because ANN when they have multiple people under a position they list them alphabetically. That's why it's a horrible example, heck ANN don't even split the credits like the OP does (which lists Ryo first...) it's as simple as that.

Well he is actually listed for in the music credits since he's the only one under music and Ryo is under theme songs. In this case I kind of have to agree that ANN is actually an inaccurate portrayal because it doesn't split them as you say. This point goes to you. Next time I plan on bringing the glib remarks I'll be sure to screencap the show credits.

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I'm judging the music against each other, not the shows they're actually in. Whether or not Sawano can adjust his talents to adapt to a show or not is beside the point. The music shown so far while better than most of his early work is far from the level of Unicorn/AnE. Can it improve? Obviously, but that's also why I'm comparing it to the first 2 episodes of AnE and the first OVA of Unicorn.. things can change later on... Gundam SEED for instance had pretty terrible music for the early part (and SEED OST 1 is easily the worst in that franchise) but it became amazing by the end of it and that carried over into Destiny.

Hmm...the mixing seemed a bit off in the first episode, not really allowing it to shine all that much or really be all that audible except for the climatic scene at the end, but I'd say what the second episode showcased is a lot closer to what I've come to expect from him. We need more tracks to sample.

As an aside I barely remember the Gundam Seed/Destiny OST other than the T.M Revolution songs so maybe that speaks a bit to it's overall mediocrity among Gundam Soundtracks. It was Toshihiko Sahashi who is pretty much the guy you hire when you just want passable orchestral music and just can't get anyone else. He's someone who kind of ranks as something of a perennial honorable mention among my favorite anime composer lists. Frankly a lot of the guys tracks can be kind of generic if not outright plagiarized from other sources, but every now and then he has a really good volume like with The Big O which I still count as his best ever. Light years ahead of his other stuff in fact.

i dont know whats the deal with this series and people, comparing with a bunch of others... so far is one of th best this season(and we havent seen one this good in years), thats all that should matter.

Indeed, Guilty Crown is by far the most impressive series this season.

It was Toshihiko Sahashi who is pretty much the guy you hire when you just want passable orchestral music and just can't get anyone else. He's someone who kind of ranks as something of a perennial honorable mention among my favorite anime composer lists. Frankly a lot of the guys tracks can be kind of generic if not outright plagiarized from other sources, but every now and then he has a really good volume like with The Big O which I still count as his best ever. Light years ahead of his other stuff in fact.

Agree to agree on the other points but I have to say, have you listened to his Simoun score haven't you? I don't know if it's his top work (close0 but it seems to be one of his most overlooked ones. I'll also say his FMP scroes were pretty subpar...

I'm just wondering,if it's a sinful crown,then surely we can't have our protagonist be a sinner so maybe the point of the anime will be to not use this weapon at all (we already saw he refused to join the resistance).
Or is there some kind of catch we havn't been told about that comes with using this sinful power?Or am I just overthinking things?

As for Gai,he actualy reminds me more of Kiefer from Rideback, another leader of mecha riding rebels/"terrorists" group under a cruel totalitarian japanese regime in the not too distant future.

Except Gai *isn't* Lelouch. He's a long haired handsome blonde dude with an agenda. We've seen countless of those in anime, and while they can occasionally be awesome (The Wizard in Ben-To is totally rad), I'm not getting into this guy's charisma at all.

Gai pulled off a very much Lelouch maneuver. He predicted where the enemy response was going to be, who was going to participate how they were going to react, and turned their own tactics against them. Not to mention having the balls to show off to your enemy and having a bunch of guns shown in your face and keeping your calm. Lelouch would have been proud of him.

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Originally Posted by Irenicus

Yes, but Britannia was a racist, imperialistic Evil Empire. There was no question about this. This series has a...weird sort of occupational forces working in Japan (they even name dropped a GHQ), which is somehow utterly evil to the core, or at least retarded, given how it had a "petty aristocrat"/psychopath operate in civilian quarters.

The Japan under the historical GHQ was not exactly the kindest of places, nor was the GHQ's record spotless, but it wasn't an evil force intent upon slaughtering hapless Japanese civilians because it could. What's more, it was an occupational power after a brutal world war. This one came in because of a...plague? A plague I'm 99.99% sure had something to do with an evil conspiracy somewhere.

Also, since there was also a comparison to Ghost in the Shell; you know what that series is great for? For all the questionably-dressed cyborg action and high-minded philosopher-terrorists, it felt plausible. It was the near-future of our very own societies, troubled, politick'd, and nonetheless with people acting like people.

Leave the Ghost in the Shell comparisons alone. There has been absolutely nothing on the same level and it was sheer stupidity of the staff to even mention that.

We also don't know that the historical GHQ is the basis for that. Obviously the name is supposed to evoke similar feelings but the writing is in no way realistic in that regards. Again GHQ is a reworked Brittania from multiple angles rather than a futuristic GHQ.

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Originally Posted by Irenicus

This series would have been served much better in a more fantasy setting...as Geass was.

You have a guy pulling swords and reflection guns out of people. It's pretty damn fantastical already.

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Originally Posted by Irenicus

...and I disliked every one of them? Code Geass was far, far from perfect and this sort of shallow characterization is part of my annoyances for it. The problem so far is that despite the great production values this series is already showing itself to be worse in many respects.

Suzaku at least had plenty of internal conflicts; he was a rounded character. Hate him or love him, hypocrite, traitor, etc., we saw his viewpoint and understood his emotions. And even if we consider from the perspective of the first two episodes of Geass versus this one's (we should in any case), his introduction was nonetheless as a sympathetic friend-turned-shounen-rival. We were expected to see the tragedy between the "best friends" pan out, for good or ill.

Blondie here? He can f' off. If a character's worth is determined by his rivals, then poor Hero boy is being cruelly insulted.

I would argue Suzuku was a horrible developed and conceived character but that's an argument for another time. The point was that Suzuku was supposed to be one of the heroes/main characters and so had alot of face time. A better comparison to Daryl in Code Geass would be Jeremiah and some of the other "kill them all" villains in Season 1 of Code Geass.

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Originally Posted by Irenicus

Well, they better hurry up with it. Right now the princess acts a like doormat to a boy she barely knows, apparently because she can smell out his Hero Protagonist status. If this is fanservice then I feel...dirtied, cheapened. Insulted.

There are ways you can create a "broken" sort of "personality-less" character without making her a suspiciously fanservice-y doormat. See Eureka from Eureka 7. Or the legendary Ayanami Rei...ignoring how Eva fans made the director fall into depression by idolizing her nonetheless.

Eureka wasn't that interesting of a character 2 episodes in either. As I said, the third episode is going to make/break Inori as we'll see her in a more informal setting. Inori is such a bland heroine that they have to have something planned with her, I just can't figure out what.

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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Wait what exactly do Gai and Lelouch have in common? Also what exactly do you mean by "wasn't exactly an insane affair"? I think we're a little off base here, but then that's kind of not surprising given the growing talk about Code Geass in an unrelated thread.

Lelouch pulled off a maneuver very much similar to what Gai did. Predicting enemy movements and responses and launching counterattacks based off of that. Then Gai standing up and giving a speech in full view of the enemy.

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Originally Posted by Irenicus

Somebody looks like they have an agenda that's kind of irrelevant to the topic, but we'll play with this for now cause I think I can make this work out. First off....well....you're wrong actually. There were plenty of sympathetic characters for Britannia and it's here I think I can make this topic a little more relevant a comparison. We had characters like Cornelia, Jeremiah, Shirley, Euphemia, Milly, Nunally, Cecille, Lloyd....almost the entire cast of the school too, all with varying levels of sympathetic portrayal over the course of the series.

Spoiler for Code Geass heavy spoilers:

When I talk about Brittania, I mean the government. This is because 90 percent of the cast was foreign. Really then entire series for the most part was infighting between a bunch of nobles. Even then most of the characters weren't sympathetic in that the student cast didn't really suffer. Cornelia and certainly Jeremiah had what was coming to them. Nunally and Euphemia were supposed to be the sympathetic characters. Euphemia ended up being killed after she wiped out a bunch of Japanese and Nunally was really only important due to the influence she had on her brother. Not to mention we see none of the citizens really share Euphemia's ideas. None of the higher ups or Knights of the Round were sympathetic in the least. Lelouch's father was an ass truly to the end.

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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

This is something I think is absolutely critical and needed in order to make Guilty Crown go down a little easier. Somewhere along the line we'll have to stop being so black and white about all of this and there will have to be at least one character from the occupation that isn't an eyes bulging out of the head maniac. Yes Code Geass had some of these too, but it also had sympathetic characters and it also had some characters on the Japanese side of the fight that were grey in their morality like Lelouch himself and arguably some of the more extreme members of the old resistance seen in episode 01. That made for some interesting interplay within and between the factions at times. Maybe Gai will be that character in Guilty Crown that will be the anti-hero type, but only time will tell.

Really CG had only three sympathetic people in the cast, Lelouch, Nunally, and Euphemia. The rest on both sides were extremists and crazy for the most part. Nina being a perfect example. They fleshed out the characters but alot of that character development came way down the round.

Now if you want more people like the students at Ashford Academy, you'll certainly get them.

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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

This is a good point. Because the setting is very much real (in a futuristic sense at least) it kind of clashes with the very surreal characters, factions and plot elements (the last one gets a pass for me so far, the middle one is my biggest beef with the show right now) and makes for a bit of a strange viewing. I think this is the heart of the problem with the show as it stands. If one is too adjust it's going to take some time cause I kind of came in expecting something a lot more mature than what has been presented so far. I think it's also fair to mention that Code Geass (woe as I am to keep bringing the topic up) had given it's main character motive by this point in the story and roped one into his revenge story and quest to give his sister a more peaceful world to grow up in. There were also issues of family infighting and a friendship gone awry introduced pretty early on as well. It made it personal and his character highly identifiable and arguably served to jump start the show quiet nicely.

Well It's looking like they're going to tie Shouma's backstory into Gai's and possibly Inoris along with his mother. So the backstory is definitely there. Unlike CG where we had a pretty good grasp of the motivations, it's being held closer to the chest this time.

They change the setting in the end into school setting. So expect a slice of life presentation which I hope will bring more color the the MC and make the Heroine talk more because she has no character at all. Even facial expression lacks on her.

The only time that I've seen the heroine's face expression changed is when she is singing in the first episode (near the ending). As well as the opening when you says "I'm yours". So, it would be great to see that expression in different occasions.

Gai pulled off a very much Lelouch maneuver. He predicted where the enemy response was going to be, who was going to participate how they were going to react, and turned their own tactics against them. Not to mention having the balls to show off to your enemy and having a bunch of guns shown in your face and keeping your calm. Lelouch would have been proud of him.

Leave the Ghost in the Shell comparisons alone. There has been absolutely nothing on the same level and it was sheer stupidity of the staff to even mention that.

We also don't know that the historical GHQ is the basis for that. Obviously the name is supposed to evoke similar feelings but the writing is in no way realistic in that regards. Again GHQ is a reworked Brittania from multiple angles rather than a futuristic GHQ.

You have a guy pulling swords and reflection guns out of people. It's pretty damn fantastical already.

I would argue Suzuku was a horrible developed and conceived character but that's an argument for another time. The point was that Suzuku was supposed to be one of the heroes/main characters and so had alot of face time. A better comparison to Daryl in Code Geass would be Jeremiah and some of the other "kill them all" villains in Season 1 of Code Geass.

Eureka wasn't that interesting of a character 2 episodes in either. As I said, the third episode is going to make/break Inori as we'll see her in a more informal setting. Inori is such a bland heroine that they have to have something planned with her, I just can't figure out what.

Lelouch pulled off a maneuver very much similar to what Gai did. Predicting enemy movements and responses and launching counterattacks based off of that. Then Gai standing up and giving a speech in full view of the enemy.

When I talk about Brittania, I mean the government. This is because 90 percent of the cast was foreign. Really then entire series for the most part was infighting between a bunch of nobles. Even then most of the characters weren't sympathetic in that the student cast didn't really suffer. Cornelia and certainly Jeremiah had what was coming to them. Nunally and Euphemia were supposed to be the sympathetic characters. Euphemia ended up being killed after she wiped out a bunch of Japanese and Nunally was really only important due to the influence she had on her brother. Not to mention we see none of the citizens really share Euphemia's ideas. None of the higher ups or Knights of the Round were sympathetic in the least. Lelouch's father was an ass truly to the end.

Really CG had only three sympathetic people in the cast, Lelouch, Nunally, and Euphemia. The rest on both sides were extremists and crazy for the most part. Nina being a perfect example. They fleshed out the characters but alot of that character development came way down the round.

Now if you want more people like the students at Ashford Academy, you'll certainly get them.

Well It's looking like they're going to tie Shouma's backstory into Gai's and possibly Inoris along with his mother. So the backstory is definitely there. Unlike CG where we had a pretty good grasp of the motivations, it's being held closer to the chest this time.

So like do you have some agenda to knock Code Geass down a bit and bump this up or something? I'm kind of confused as to this tack and what any of this argument has to do with anything.

So like do you have some agenda to knock Code Geass down a bit and bump this up or something? I'm kind of confused as to this tack and what any of this argument has to do with anything.

Not really. I actually loved Code Geass. Just so far, it's been really similar to CG, which has its negatives and pluses. The whole affair seems like Yoshino and Ōkouchi wanting to try and make a better version of CG with better music, better character designs, and more realistic characters. I think Inori is a horrible character though so far but it's only two episodes in. The villains are also horribly written. Character development takes time and saying that whichever character isn't developed, isn't a fair criticism of a show only two episodes in of a 22 episode show.

Not really. I actually loved Code Geass. Just so far, it's been really similar to CG, which has its negatives and pluses. The whole affair seems like Yoshino wanting to try and make a better version of CG with better music, better character designs, and more realistic characters. I think Inori is a horrible character though so far but it's only two episodes in. The villains are also horribly written. Character development takes time and saying that whichever character isn't developed, isn't a fair criticism of a show only two episodes in of a 22 episode show.

That guy has an almost frightening tendency to want to top himself. Like I said I'm just waiting for Okouchi to kick in and hopefully lift this show up a little. I'm not sure I foresee a scenario though in which the villains improve. This Guin guy would have to disappear pretty soon for that to have a chance of being the case.