Death Battle Erred in Goku vs. Superman

TLDR;

Wiz did NOT accurately calculate Goku in his Death Battle Analysis.

The Blog is complete. Please see Table of Contents for a more detailed summary but in essence I quantify and compare Superman and Goku. First, I discuss Goku's actual speed based solely on the Manga. Next, I discuss Goku's striking power versus Superman's durability. I then discuss Superman's striking power as compared to Goku's durability, concluding with who the winner is based on an actual analysis of Goku and Superman. Hope you enjoy!

DEATH BATTLE DID NOT ACCURATELY DETERMINE GOKU VS. SUPERMAN

This is an accurate analysis based solely on quantifiable feats from the manga where possible and references GT and the movies only as necessary. Further, I have provided scans with links for easy fact checking.

Enjoy.

NOTE: Power Levels are NOT used for 3 main reasons, but there are a host of rationales:

They are irrelevant and I am basing this solely on quantifiable feats and what Toriyama said in interviews.

There is no definitive basis as to what the power level is, what over 9,000 is equal to is only by comparison of Dragon Ball universe characters and so has no basis for comparing Goku to another character

Power Level is NOT reflective of ability. For instance, Jeice is more powerful that Burter but is slower. Vegeta trains and increases his "power level" in over 100x Earth's normal gravity but we do not know if he developed a similar mind reading ability like Goku did. Frieza's power level is over 1,000,000 in form 2 and Piccolo's was under 9,000 when he fought the Siayans and died but after fusing with Nail he fights evenly with Freiza?! The list goes on...

NOTE: this blog is dated: 1/11/2013.

Superman is an open series so his character may change and this blog only applies to what Death Battle said they would look at in terms of Superman

(ie All Post Crisis that was in the mainstream and not spin off or alternate versions such as Superman Red and Blue, etc.)

Goku's information is essentially a closed series as Toriyama finsihed the manga in 1995. So I have not taken Battle of the Gods into account as it does not come out until March of 2013. Thus, I will discuss

the manga only strictest canon Goku AND

the one Death Battle was supposed to use:

All of Goku from the manga with the addition of

all of his movies so long as it is in addition to and not in contradiction of the manga (non contradictory in terms of ability not storyline as the movies rarely fit susinctly into the stories)

noncontradictory filler from the anime

GT so long as they would be additions and not conflicts:

Essentially Meaning Manga Goku +

Super Dragon Fist,

SS4 transformation (ie just x10 boost),

SS3 less of a drastic drain on body as depicted in Janemba and Wrath of Dragon,

And othe movie feats discussed in the blog although not necessarily applicable or I should say possible in this fight.

·Dragonball Absurdities not factored in to the above analysis !! (Update: 7/2/2013) !!

·Editor's Note on "Future Goku" vs. Superman Prime

1ST MISTAKE: Goku’s Speed

Death Battle Incorectly determined Goku's Speed for 2 reasons

1st Traverse Times are irrelevant in the Dragonball World and only used to further the plot: as stated by Akria Toriyama, discussed in the Daizenshuu, and Common Sense

2nd Even if Death Battle wanted to use traverse Speed to calcualte Goku's speed they did so incorectly. The Daeth Battle Snake Way Analysis is incorrect becuase it relied on a faulty scaling analysis based on drawings that were not drawn to scale as well as discounted loops thus making up the curvatures and other features in their "calculation."

1st Traverse Speed is irrelevant as it is only done to further the plot in Dragonball , DragonballZ, and Dragonball GT

PROOF

If Popo’s Carpet can travel the Earth in an Instant why did they not use that to get Goku to the Saiyan fight quicker and prevent Kami's demise?

If Kami can Teleport Goku why not use that to get him to the fight? Arguably because that warping power is limited to taking ppl between worlds

Further Proof: Master Roshi is fast enough that he can see and catch machine gun bullets (in the Dragonball universe the faster you are the faster things you can see) we know that Roshi actually sees the bullets because bullets are inanimate objects and therefore lack ki:

AND Goku by the 2nd World Martial Arts Tournament he enters, moves so fast that Roshi (looking head on like the bullet) and everyone else looking from every perspective (360°) and varying distances (becuase it is not a proximity issue) cannot see him! He is moving so fast that he is invisible and only an echo of his movements can be detected.

A bullet from an AK-47 moves at 715 m/s, since Roshi cannot see him Goku must be going faster than the bullet.

If Goku could only go that fast in DragonBall Z and did not get faster from this Tournament to when he fights King Piccolo and then trains with Kami and fights Piccolo it would take Goku 1,398,601 seconds to cross snake way or 16 days going all out no stops (assuming Goku only ran 6 hours a day it would take him still 96 days or just over 3 months)

[1,000,000km= 1,000,000,000m and 1,000,000,000m/1,398,601s= 715m/s]

BUT it takes Goku nearly 6 months to get to King Kai's (in the manga he does not fall off)

so his speed would have to have gotten slower and reduced all the way down to 63m/s! WHAT?!

63 m/s! THAT's SO MUCH SLOWER THAN BEING UNABLE TO DETECT WITH THE NAKED EYE!

Anyone, even those not trained using Ki, can see Nascar drivers going 143.164mph or 63m/s! Thus Goku at the World Martial Arts Tournament is going faster as a child than as an adult!?

Because GOKU DOES get FASTER:

2nd Wiz based his Snake Way analysis by scaling Goku when none of the spikes are ever drawn the same way, nor were any of the drawings meant to be to scale! He also Failed to Take into Account the Loops and various Straightaways making Goku’s traverse speed arguably faster in THEIR own Analysis than it should have been, making their whole analysis a faulty meaningless assumption.

Time Accuracy for Goku to Cross Snake Way? Yes!

BUT Distance? NO!

Time:

It is day time When Goku tells Roshi and he summonsShenLong (Shenron):

Time Frame: (12:20 pm) show up

Time Frame: 3 more hours

So assuming the Z warriors were fighting for 10 minutes [which is reasonable considering Dragonball] it is now (12:30) add 3 hours and Goku leaves Snake Way at (3:30) so so far we know for sure it has been 15 hours and 30 minutes add another 11 hours and 30 minutes assuming Goku told Roshi at 12:30 (which it does not say) and that gives you DeathBattle’s "28hours" figure.

Further: the scales are not equal! They vary in size! Their whole argument is a faulty assumption.

More evidence of the unfortunate faulty spike analysis:

Besides Toriyama visually represented Snake Way as actually spanning a quarter of the universe in the Daizenshu:

Toriyama was not concerned with the actual logistics of how long 1,000,000 kilometers was.

He says as much when discussing how he made the dragonball map:

"This complete map was originally background information that I drew at the request of the anime people, but I took this opportunity to add the Kaiōshin World, which wasn’t included in the complete map before, to make it perfect."

As you can see, in Toriyama's most recent depictions of Snake Way and the whole Dragonball Universe, Namek is the same distance from Earth as the length of Snake Way which incidentally covers a quarter of the universe, which was done so that it would be consistent with the logistics of the actual story... the distance given was irrelevant.

**And even if it were relevant exactly what distance Goku covered is unquantfiiable.**

Update: February 4, 2013 Dragonball Chozenshu 1: Story & World Guide

Daizenshuu Dragon World Map:

"In truth, this complete world map [referring to the above map] is something I made after I finished drawing the story, to make everything consistent. (laughs) With me, I think up the story in advance, then come up with the world’s background information to be consistent with itl"

Q: "Why do you choose to set them in worlds that aren’t really anywhere?

A: In the end, because it’s easy. Basically with everything, I choose my criteria based on what can be easy. If I made the real world the setting, I’d have to draw looking at reference materials, for stuff like buildings and vehicles. When you do that, people complain even if it’s just a little bit off.

...

A: ...Now that you mention it, once Goku and his allies learned Bukūjutsu and were able to fly, advancing the story became really easy.

Q: What do you mean?

A: Because everyone became able to just fly straight to anywhere. That’s why thinking up the story’s development became easy, and above all the story’s progress became speedy. Even looking at it with the pictures in mind, I became able to show things from an angle looking down upon the scenery. That was also why I initially introduced Kinto-Un. Up until then, they had to bring out planes and automobiles and the like one by one, and it was really tiresome.

...

Q: "Speaking of Piccolo, did you think from the beginning of his background as a Namekian alien?

A: Of course, I didn’t think that at all (laughs). The Saiyans were like that as well. When I thought up Goku’s tail and the Ōzaru, I didn’t think Goku was an alien or anything. Piccolo either. Because I thought that up when God came out.

Mostly afterwards, I thought it through so that it would be consistent. For example, there’s the chair that Planet Namek’s Eldest sat in. That was mostly the same as the chair that Piccolo Daimaō had sat in when he first appeared. It was just missing the skulls."

...

Editor: By the Way Death Battle claimed Kamehameha meant "Turtle Destruction Wave"...it does NOT. His wife came up with the name. They did not even bother to use their own alleged source material.

"Q: How do you think up the names for the special attacks?

A: I actually don’t really like to give names to the techniques. In a battle of life and death, there’s no way you can say the name of each technique. You’d be done in while yelling the technique’s name. (laughs) But my editor told me it was best to give the techniques names. My wife was the one who named the Kamehameha.

So How Fast does Goku Fight?...

Hard to say but the best and most accurate calculation based solely on the manga puts it at massively FTL. I will explain below:

This Analysis goes through the progression of abilities of Goku (WARNING: there are some spoilers but they are identified)

Red Ribbon Army Saga

After the First World Martial Arts Tournament we see that Goku is as fast as at least machine gun bullets while fighting the Red Ribbon Army

...

General Tao Battle and Karin Tower Training leads to an EXPONENTIAL increase

When Goku fights General Tao. Goku is no match for Tao's speed or strength and so trains with Karin (Korin) and gets and EXPONENTIAL increase in power from “drinking the sacred water”*

(*Spoiler Alert about DragonBall: Karin is a god and his godly powers make him massively faster, stronger, etc. than regular people so Goku does not actually get a boost from drinking any water, what Karin is withholding from Goku is nothing other than regular water, Goku gets the increase from training, it took Roshi 3 years and Goku only 3 days!)

Proof: Tao=^2

(exponential means you multiply it by itself at least once, this speed could be many times greater but I am doing all of these on the low end so that Goku is not over powered)

Increasing his Speed and Strength Esponentially through training with Karin!

ALSO Goku is Able to Catch a Dragonball before it spreads out accross the Planet!

(Arguably dragonballs are depicted as moving at the speed of light for varying lengths of time hence why they end up in different places. And would actually need to move at a speed equal to the diameter of the Earth in a milisecond at a bare minimum so that they could shoot off and fall becuase of their equidistance depicted trajectory. However, there are more definitive speed proofs so I will not be using this either.)

**The Dragonball Speed feat will also NOT factor into the analysis**

Then the 2nd World Martial Arts Torunament.

Goku swims across the world right before the tournament, no time frame so unusable but still cool!

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v08/c113/12.html

At the World Martial Arts Tournament while fighting Tien Goku demonstrates his new speed and outruns another light speed attack! A solar flare!

BEFORE THE ATTACK Roshi w/glasses:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v09/c130/5.html

TIEN Does the Attack and it Shows Goku WITHOUT GLASSES:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v09/c130/6.html

TIEN DURING THE ATTACK RUSHES GOKU:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v09/c130/7.html

GOKU was so fast he was able to get glasses and come back before the light hits his eyes!

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v09/c130/8.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v09/c130/9.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v09/c130/10.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v09/c130/11.html

**but again some people claim another light speed feat is an an outlier so I will not include it in the analysis**

King Piccolo Saga

(*Spolier Allert: King Piccolo is resurrected and SHORTLY after the Torunament Tragedy Strikes and he kills Krillen sending Goku into a rage …Krillen dying tends to do that to him (see Super Saiyan)…and he fights the old King Piccolo)

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v10/c135/3.html

...

Goku eventually beats one of King Piccolo's children (Tamborine) and then faces old King Picolo

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v12/c011/7.html

Goku gets stomped by the speed and power of Old King Piccolo

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v12/c012/

...

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v12/c012/7.html

King Piccolo becomes even more Powerful after he regains his youth.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v13/c003/11.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v13/c003/13.html

...

SO Goku goes back to Karin’s tower where this time he drinks REAL SACRED WATER. "The Ultimate Water of the Gods" unlocks a person's hidden power.

ie the power of the Oozaru Transformation* hidden deep within Goku but now accessible in human form. (*Ape Transformation)

NOTE: In the Viz translation of the manga, rather than keeping any reference to how much stronger the Oozaru transformation makes a Saiyan, they had Vegeta mock Goku for not having his tail (it was supposed to be ironic becuase Goku already had the same power as if he had his tail...Kami removed it because he no longer needed it for the power increase and in the presence of the full moon could cause mayhem so Goku's tail was removed becuase it would only get in his way):

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c235/6.html

With his 10 times speed, strength, etc. increase Goku is able to fight evenly with the younger King Piccolo.

**Some people say this is an outlier so I will not factor that into the analysis**

3rd World Martial Arts Tournament

Goku has become massively faster than what Kami even thought possible!

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v16/c008/4.html

Goku trains with King Kai

Goku trains on his way to Namek…

He then trains for the Androids,

then CelI,

then in Hell...

I will just go ahead and use DeathBattle’s Gravity formula

([speed]x586...b/c of the tons)

(even though [as discussed later] that is not Goku's peak because he had been training all day, but it is at least a good LOW END standard.

Especially because I can not factor in his speed increases from Namek to Cell and this is essentially taking Goku's speed at the Begining of Dragonball Z and using the LOW END gravity formula:

Gravity: 586 x SPEED

586 x 5,112,225m/s= 2,995,778,500 m/s

2,995,778,500 m/s = 2,995,778.5 km/s

Base Form: 2,995,778. 5 km/s

SS1: 149,788,925 km/s

SS2: 299,577,850 km/s

SS3: 1,198,311,400 km/s

SS4: 11,983,114,000 km/s

NOTE:

The above proven fighting speed disregards

Goku dodging lasers

Goku catching a Dragonball

Goku out running a Solar Flare

Goku becoming Faster than Lighting

Goku training for 3 years with Kami and all the other specifically unquantifiable training speed increases

HOWEVER,
if you still think that what really matters for a speed analysis is Traverse speed I also do an accurate calculation of that is as well and will use that speed for the final analysis.MY ACCURATE CALCULATIONS:

DeathBattle said Goku was 2.5billion km/hr AT SS4 ...

THEY ARE WRONG.

GOKU SHOULD BE MINIMALLY 183 billion km/hr in SS4 (45,922,320km/hr in base form) becuase he can cross Earth's diameter in one second in the Freiza Saga.

This speed is based solely on what Goku quantifiably did on Namek, granted he would be significantly faster in base form by Cell and even more so by the Buu saga. However, there is no way for me to accurately definitely say what that increase would be and I am not going to make guesses for this blog.

How I arrived at this Accurate Figure:

V-Jump (a magazine about Manga) published an Article with tha approval of Shōnen Jump (the Japanese manga anthology magazine that published the DragonBall and DragonBall Z mangas) stating that Namek was the size of Earth (ie the distance that Goku crosses in one second).

Earth diameter: 12 756.2 kilometers
Goku can cross that in a second as he did on Namek so he can go 12 756.2 km/s or 45,922,320km/hr

At SS1:637,810km/s = 2,296,116,000 km/hr 2.29 billion km/hr

At SS2:1,275,620km/s =4,592,232,000 km/hr 4.59 billion km.hr

At SS3: 5,102,480km/s = 18,368,928,000 km/hr 18.3 billion km/hr

At SS4: 51,024,800 km/s =183,689,280,000 km/hr 183 billion km/hr

However, I am unable to find a link to that Article so I will be calculating Namek's size based on quantifiable feats within the Manga and will derive a number from that.

Traversing Speed: minimum: in base form

[based on Namek being the size of Earth]: 12,756.2km/s or 45,922,320km/hr and 45,922,320 x 4,0000= 183,689,280,000 km/hr [which is SS4 (288billion km/hr)] OR

based on Namek's sized (discussed in detail below) 29,401.056km/s or 105,843,801.6km/hr and 105,843,801x4,000=423,375,206,400km/hr [which is SS4 (423billion km/hr)]

No silly measurements on inaccurate drawings which mean nothing, just facts based on what characters said and did.

Size of Namek: Bigger than Earth (will prove this after I lay the foundation for the calculation)

Krillen's Power Increase will Give us the time and distance of at most half the radius of planet Namek:

oAccording to Death Battle: Nimbus only goes mach 1.5 which is 510.43500 m / s

So BEFORE getting powered up by Guru in 2hrs Krillen could go: 3,675,132meters

(Krillen could fly at least as fast as nimbus [mach 1.5] by the time the Saiyans arrive because all the Saibamen had the fighting capabilities (which includes speed) of Raditz and Krillen kills 4 on his own)

AND

Piccolo (who was slower than Raditz ) could keep up with Goku’s nimbus cloudwearing his weighted clothing with no effort)

oPiccolo weaker and slower than Raditz can keep up with Nimbus with ease (still wearing weighted clothing):

§

§

Each Saibmen that Krillen defeats was equal to Raditz in speed etc.

…because Raditz handily outclassed Goku and Piccolo this is a very modest estimate of placing Krillen’s speed at the Saibamen fight (ie still under Piccolo’s at the beginning of Dragonball Z who was slower and weaker than Raditz). However, that low estimate is irrefutable based on the above given speed feats which were easily quantifiable.

This minimum of Mach 1.5 speed is confirmed by the fact that before increasing his speed from Guru it takes Krillen and Dende nearly a full day to reach Guru.

However, we cannot calculate that figure because Krillen only goes top speed at some points and stops and starts at multiple way points, and even carries Dende at one point.

oBUT AFTER Guru's power increase it is quite easy to acurately figure the size of Namek's radius based on Krillen's travel speed and time:

At a minimum Krillen is as fast as Mach 3 because of the increase he got would be at least double based on his statements and by comparison to Gohan.

Gohan's increase was far far more than quadruple:

***NOTE: I am NOT using power scaling or power levels. I am doing a side by side analytical ratio and seeing what the minimum distribution on increase in speed, strength, etc. for Krillen would be. If you say Krillen is faster than Mach 3 that only increases Namek's size based on the further distance he would travel in 2 hours. However, it is clear based on the manga that Krillen on Namek after seeing Guru can go at least mach 3.

Now Calculating Distance:

§ The Circumference of Earth is roughly 40,007.86 km

Circumference= pi x d so 40,007.86= pi x d...d= 12,756.2 km.

The width of Earth on one side, its diameter, not it circumference, is 12,756.2km.

At a maximum 1/8 of planet Namek (1/2 it’s radius in a straight line, what Krillen flew) is 7,350.264km or 7,350,264m

So that would make its diameter: 29,401,056meters (because you take the line Krillen flew which is half the raidus and multiply it by 2 to get the raidus (7,350,264meters x2=14,700,528m).

And multiply Namek's radius by 2 to get the diameter (14,700,528x2=29,401,056m).

This makes the cirucumference of Namek: 92,319,314 km (29,401.056km x pi) OR 42,244.315km in circumference larger than Earth.

[Namek (92,319.112)-Earth(40,075km)]=42,244.315km

Further Explained:

The distance between the cave that Krillen is traveling to and Guru’s is at most 1/8 of the planet because it is between Freeza’s ship and Guru’s on the other side of the planet (so we are only looking at a straight line on one half of the planet). I have provided the scans and links so you can easily fact check me.

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/260/10/

...

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/264/11/

...

THEN POWERS UP AND LEAVES

...

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/267/5/

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/267/6/

Guru’s place is across the way from the Ginyu Fight:

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/283/12/

And Frieza’s ship is beyond the cave which is North of the battle site and Frieza’s ship in the opposite direction of Guru’s:

(side B of Namek)

THIS CONFIRMS the location and distance from the cave, which is is between Freeza’s ship and Guru’s, and is less than halfway around the planet.

Namek is clearly equal to or bigger than Earth. Thus, Goku can go across earth in one second.

MY ACCURATE CALCULATION:

Travel Time: less than a second to cover the distance of a planet bigger than Earth.

New Traverse Speed: from one side of planet Namek to the other in a second: 29,401,056m/s in base form or 105,843,801.6 km/hr

Proof: Krillen in 2hrs =7,350,264meters or 7,350.264km to cave which is 1/2 its RADIUS of Namek AT THE MOST. So do 7,350.264m x4=Diameter= 29,401.056 km. (size of namek from one side to the other)

Goku traveled 29,401.056 km in a second or 105,843,801.6 km/hr which in SS4 is 423,375,206,400km/hr (423 billion km/hr)

NAMEK IS THE SIZE OF EATH ARGUMENT: V-Jump Magazine came out with an Article Stating that Namek was the size of Earth. Unable to locate the article to post to this blog I did the above calculation. (see below for the V-Jump calc)

****************If we say Namek is equal to Earth that still means Goku is way faster than what Wiz made up:

Earth diameter: 12,756.2 kilometers

Goku gets there in a second so he can go 12 756.2 km/s or 45,922,320km/hr

So Traverse time as a Super Saiyan 1 is : 2,296,116,000 km/hr. This figure is confirmed by the entire Frieza Fight taking only 5 minutes and Goku going all over the planet from where Vegeta died, back to Porunga the all the way to the Namekian Village Vegeta Destroyed far north of Freeza’s ship, then to Where the cave was, and back to Freeza’s ship as it was closer than his own ship.

And in SS4 is 45,922,320 km.hr x4,0000 so 183,689,280,000km/hr or 183 billion km/hr.

***************Some readers have pointed out that what I use for diameter is lower than what the curvature of the Earth would be becuase I am not factoring in pi into the equation and instead I am doing a true straight line analysis. What I am doing is essentially further low ending the distance by comparing it to flying from the US to New Zealand ie Essentially going from one side of Earth to the other. That flight distance going from New Zealand to US is between 12,568km and 14,108.9km http://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from/United+States/to/New+Zealand ; http://www.happyzebra.com/distance-calculator/New%20Zealand-and-USA.php depending on the starting point. So since that roughly equaled the diameter of Earth: 12,756.2km and the airline says that is what the distance flown would be I went with that and did the calculation on the low end that way. For more detail on the linear travers time and Namek check out my other blog: http://www.screwattack.com/news/linear-map-planet-namek

No silly measurements on inaccurate drawings which mean nothing, just facts based on what characters said and did.

Keep in mind in the Dragonball World what matters for speed analysis should be the fighting and not the traverse times, but in order to not over power Goku I will ONLY use the traverse speed for this analysis.

BUT if TRAVERSE SPEED is how Wiz wanted to base the analysis then he should have done so ACCURATELY, like the above, rather than a made up formula based on curvatures and scaling which meant absolutely nothing and did not reflect Goku’s abilities and conflicted with the Dragonball Manga.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

EDITOR'S NOTE: if you discount all of the above then read below on the science of speed and invisibility

SCIENCE ARTICLE PROOF: “How fast would an object have to move to be invisible to the naked eye?

Could Dash from “The Incredibles” really run so fast that we could not see him?

The short answer is yes, Dash could run fast enough to be invisible. Exactly how fast he would have to run depends on many factors. For an object to be visible, light particles (photons) must bounce off the object and into your eye. There must be enough light that specialized neurons in the eye—the rod and cone cells that form the photosensitive pixels of the retina—are activated to a level that triggers awareness. If Dash zipped through your field of view so quickly that too little light from him reached your retina, you would not see him. What is the minimum amount of light required? In a classic experiment, people in complete darkness were exposed to flashes of light. Only the rod photoreceptors were sensitive enough to detect the light intensities used in this experiment. At the minimum flash brightness required to trigger visual awareness, onlya handful of rods each absorbed just one photon. The implication is striking: single cells, capturing single particles of light, can trigger perception. However, at best, the rods can provide only a low-resolution image. To see and recognize Dash requires cone photoreceptors. Cones allow high-resolution color vision in brighter light. Unlike rods, individual cones must absorb many photons to generate a sizeable response.

And since each cone contributes a single pixel to the final image, many cones are required to “draw” Dash on the retina. If Dash were moving fast, photons bouncing off him would be scattered across many cones, and each of these cones might be insufficiently activated, so Dash would be invisible. If there were just a little more activation, he would appear as a blur. The less light there is, the more Dash can afford to take it easy. At noon when there is a surplus of photons, he has to be at his speediest to be invisible. Other factors are at play. One is eye movement. We never look steadily at a single point in space. We are not aware of it, but our eyes constantly dart from one location in the visual scene to another. They make small jumps that last about a fifth of a second. These jumps are called “saccades,” during which our visual system is suppressed. If Dash shot past during a saccade, you would not see him. If he ran past a crowd, chances are that at least some people would be in midsaccade and would miss him. The bottom line is, a complete answer to your question does not exist. How much light is required for a good cone signal, how activity across the array of cones is assembled into an image, how the visual system shuts down during a saccade, and other factors such as attention are active research areas. Answered by Michael Tri Do,_ an assistant professor at Children’s Hospital Boston,Harvard Medical School.”

In sum: photons move at light speed, it is photons bouncing of the object that allow us to see it, if the object were moving faster than light it would be moving faster than the photons can bounce off and therefore would be "invisble" to a human eye.

ALL of the above confirm that GOKU CAN FIGHT AND DODGE AT MASSIVELY FASTER THAN LIGHT SPEEDS.

Now, do not misunderstand my point. My point is NOT that Z warriors ALWAYS fight at light speed and massively faster, far from it as there are many times at the World Tournament where the crowd is able to see parts of the battle. However, as the above physics article discusses moving at just under lightspeed is still able to be seen from all angles depending on distance, but to be truly invisible like some parts of the fights in Dragonball and onward means that the characters were fighting at at least Light Speed or Faster.

Thus, if you discount the proven Namek traverse speed analysis and the fighting speed anlysis in favor of one based on character depictions it only makes Goku even faster. This is because from Dragonball and onward the fighters are at least capable of fighting and dodging at light speed, but cannot necessarily always do it or cover a large distance at that speed based on how it is depicted in the story. BUT AGAIN we know Goku can cross Earth in one second as he did on Namek and that is his lowest proven speed feat so I am going to use that.

Proof on How Speed in the Dragonball Universe is Depicted:

In Dragonball in the manga and the show the fight panels and scenes are slowed down so that we, the audience, can see it rather than doing it real time, every time.

Akira Toriyama made this clear with Krillen vs. Master Roshi fight in dragon ball: They have a full fight and conversation in les that a full second!! AND THIS IS IN DragonBall!!

Gohan is unable to see Piccolo’s movements before he learns to sense ki: Piccolo is faster than Gohan's eyes can see and thus able to get around him:

In Cell Saga NOT EVEN CAMERAS Can Capture their Speed during parts of the fight! Although one can say the Camera man meant keep up with filming and that is fine but when they show the Camera Man shooting anyweher near them the Camera picks up nothing: http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/400/1/

FURTHER CONFIRMED: Akira Toriyama writes Moon feats as if this were Earth's moon (answer located a little bellow the top right corner):

Goku learned the Kamehameha immediately and can do the same. Villains and warriors dodge Kamehamehas regularly, Beams proven to be FTL. Heck, Raditz can dodge FTL and then his traverse speed was too slow to out run it:

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/201/11/

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/201/12/

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/201/13/

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/201/14/

Raditz was fast enough to dodge the FTL Kamehameha (as established by Roshi's moon feat) but Raditz's top long distance traverse speed was not enough to outrun it:

NOTE: I am not saying the beams are always FTL. I am only saying that as proven above many time they are.

------------------------------------------------------------

MISTAKE 2: The Infinite Mass Punch and Goku's fighting speed

SO GOKU IS NOT OVERPOWERED I will simply use the low end traverse speed:

·Base form: 12,756.2km/s

·SS1: 637,810km/s

·SS2: 1,275,620km/s

·SS3: 5,102,480km/s

·SS4: 51,024,800 km/s

So I will rely on his ability to Accelerate to quantify his dodging and assault abilities and not on the depictions and proven statements above ranging all the way back to Dragonball, because I am doing all low end calculations.

Acceleration:

Base form: a= [12,756.2 km – 0]/1 second=12,768.2km/s2

because Goku did that quantifiable feat in a second that is his acceleration rate per second. If he went farther and got faster I could do a different calculation but as it stands his top speed and acceleration rate are equal to his quantifiable travel time of 12,756.2km/s.

SO:

Base form: 12,768.2km/s2

At SS1: 637,810km/s2

At SS2: 1,275,620km/s2

At SS3: 5,102,480km/s2

At SS4: 51,024,800 km/s2

Why does this matter?

Because the Speed of Light: 299,792,458 km /s

Superman’s most powerful attack is his Infinite Mass Punch:

Which according to DeathBattle and the comics is:

“Done by going just under light speed”

(299,792.458 km/ s > Superman’s speed for the punch)

“The speed causes his fists to increase immensely and hits with the force of a Supernova” “which explodes at a force of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 MT”

Problem:

Superman’s move is massively slower than Goku at SS1. Who incidentally in Base form could still likely move far enough out of Superman's way because Goku only needs to avoid him and the fists as they come towards him. Which more likely than not Goku would do because unlike Superman he'd rather dodge a planet busting attack or deflect it than take it head on.

SO the ONLY WAY Goku could be hit by this attack is if he were already unconscious, low on energy, or in base form.

Further this attack requires a massive amount of energy and thus once Superman used it he would be vulnerable.

Obviously this attack is not feasible for a fight between Superman and Goku and thus irrelevant.

Superman Infinite Mass Punch into the Shadow Moon:

10^44J= 2.39e29Mt

10^44J = Supernova, which is the force that this punch hits with

Confirmed:1 Super Nova Durability in Space:

Superman v. the Elite movie:

So 15 supernovas= 15x10^44 =1.5e45

1.5e45J = 3.58e+30Mt

Superman Tanking Two Plantes Colliding (New Genesis and Apokolips

The first thing to do is to determine the size of Apokolips and New Genesis. In order to not under power Superman let’s say that they are BOTH LARGER THAN Earth so let’s say the size of Saturn! (9 times greater than Earth)

According to Nasa: “Saturn is about 9 times larger than Earth, if Saturn was the size of a soccer ball, Earth would be about as big as a nickel.”

A collision is an isolated event in which two or more moving bodies (colliding bodies) exert forces on each other for a relatively short time.

To blow up the earth, which is 9 times smaller, requires 10^34J* (*this number is discussed, calculated and confirmed later, but for now take it at face value or skip ahead to Goku's Kamehameha below).

If these planets are 9 times bigger it would take: 9x10^34J

It is a collision so Add the two together = 1.8x10^35J

There's nothing indicating either New Genesis or Apokolips have surface gravity different from Earth (normal humans have been able to walk on both without noticing any changes in their weight). So using Earth’s mass and increasing it is more than a fair estimate.

Superman absorbing sunlight in space would be knocked unconscious with 1.8x10^35J of force

Confirmed by tanking the other explosions and surviving and his durability feats on Earth discussed below.

Superman surviving the force of Earth to the face:

So how much force is that?

Hard to say and it would be a mere guess becuase there is no distance from how high Superman was to how far below he went nor a time frame for the propulsion.

Suffice is to say Superman can take a concusive hit to the face that is equal to smashing a medium sized planet into him

which incidentally confirms the above New Genesis and Apokolips feat

Superman vs a Sun Eater and getting hit with Red Sunlight thus reducing some of his power. (Not really a durability feat but more just impressive as it shows what Superman is capable of in space as well as a good demonstration of his solar energy reserves )

But it is stated that 1x10^46 J = would incenrate the man of steel when less than full on solar energy.

The force of 50xKepler’s Supernova would incinerate Superman:

“A Type la supernova is a sub-category of supernovae that results from the violent explosion of a white dwarf star… releasing enough energy (1–2×1044 J) to unbind the star in a supernova explosion.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Ia_supernova

1–2×1044 J=Kepler’s Super nova.

SO Superman with durability reduced from red sun blasts would be incenerated at by a blast worth 50 Type La Supernovas or 100x10^44J.

Note: This is not Superman's durability without any powers as he was still able to fly and be in the vacuum of space...the durability demonstred is nigh impossible to quantify as we have no idea the concussive nature and number of red sun blasts, but I wanted to include the feat so that Superman was fairly represented.

Either way this feat does not contradict the other high end durability showings:

Superman and the Shadow Moon and Supernova explosion each knocking him out :

10^44J= 2.39e29Mt

Superman vs. the Elite being in space and getting blasted in the face and still moving:

15x(10^44J)=1.5e45J = 3.5e29Mt

Superman's Greatest Durability Feat on Earth**

(**well actually planet Calaton which was a planet that Doomsday was attacking. http://www.comicvine.com/radiant/29-23642/ BUT it had a yellow sun too and was in all other respects for absorbtion power purposes equal to Earth and Superman had a more durable suit. Also, keep in mind this is virtually the most powerful depiction of Doomsday as he was essentially retconned after this and given awareness which made him fear the pain of entropy and thus less deadly in some respects [more on this later])

So I do not overpower Goku I will assume that these blasts were 1 million of what the Tsar bomb could dish out.

57MT x 1,000,000= 57,000,000 MT or 5.7x10^7Mt

...Superman's durability is still confirmed as stronger in space than on a planet with an atmosphere and/or plants etc. that absorb solar radiation.

(Notably surviving the 10^44 explosion of the Shadow moon involved no expolsion of solar raidation so saying that tanking the force of supernovas is only possible becuase they release solar enrgy is incorrect. However, Superman's access and hence ability to absorb more solar radiation in space due to not having to compete with an atmosphere or other solar radiation absorbing objects like on the surface of a planet is not an incorrect observation.)

(Nor is it incorrect to observe that Superman's clothese were more tattered whilst being at the center of the 10^44J blast in the shadow moon feat after expelling energy to stay under the speed of light and thus enduring all of that force with less power as opposed to the significantly unscathed clothing of Superman who also was inside a Supernova explosion but notably only went from planet to sun as opposed to exerting effort to do an attack)

(which makes sense becuase in Space Superman is closer to a sun and has more access to direct sunlight due to the rays going directly to him as opposed to being spread out all over earth where plants and other animals absorb the light or the light simply bounces back off etc.)

Further, this is also why Superman flies up in Earth's atmosphere [to be closer to the sun] to heal or restore his energy.

[Editor's Note: Notably Superman did train with Mongul II after his encounter with Doomsday in Hunter/Prey and learned to better harness his powers and tap into his rage.

HOWEVER, Mongul did not nor could he train Superman to make his body more durable or absorb more solar raidation faster as those are involuntary reflexes. This is confirmed by Superman's body going into a healing coma after his initial fight with Doomsday as well as automatically aborbing Kryptonite radiation when in the presence of it and being unable to prevent himself from doing so. Superman's body is constantly absorbing and takes care of its own durability, it is an involuntary reflex not a voluntary reflex or muscle movement that he could train. BUT even if one wishes to erroneously claim that Mongul made Superman more durable than the Doomsday fight , which no media says, it is irrelevant as Superman had the Motherbox armor WHICH MADE HIM "More Invulnerable."]

and a x10 Kamehameha would equal the same power of the SS4 x10 so 10x(1.6x10^33)

or under powering roughly: 10^34J

(EDITOR: notably Goku could do this well before this instance if I compare him to Vegeta but this is still a definitive showing and therefor irrefutable so I am not going to do a power scaling comparison between Goku's jump from Saiyan Saga to Cell Games Ostensibly such a comparison would mandate the entire analysis rely on Goku's abilities at Kaio Ken x 4 an would therefore be inherently flawed. Comparing Goku to Vegeta on Namek when Vegeta blasts Frieza with an attack that would have wiped out Namek (see below) also runs into a similar problem of assuming the capabilities of the Kamehameha itself based on Vegeta's attack. I also cannot rely on Cell's stated solar system busting capabilities and Gohan's overcoming of that attack with a Kamehameha and SS2 Goku in Majin Buu Saga being stated as stronger than SS2 Gohan at Cell Games Battle becuase of the amount of reader backlash that claim that said statement was hyperbole.)

Seeing as how Superman can survive 10^45J (in space)******** Goku cannot hope to kill Superman with a single Kamehameha.

***********I preface in Space because being closer to the sun and able to freely aborb solar radiation without having it disbursed across Earth gives Superman a distinct advantage and there is nothing to suggest he would have been able to take that same attack were he not being fueled more directly by the sun while on the moon than while on Earth, because stating the obvious the moon was facing the sun and therefore closer to its solar ray than when Superman is on the surface of the Earth.

At this point I must conclude that unless Goku harnessed all of his Ki into a single Kamehameha, then solely based off the Manga, Goku could not win if fought Superman in Space and tried to kill Superman in a "One Shot" blast:

Based solely on the Manga all of Goku’s ki was unquantifiable for me because of the energy he expends in Instant Transmission and flying and fisticuffs is relatively unknown so any figure I came up with would be mere speculation.

Suffice is to say a single Super Kamehameha from SS3 (because SS3 is his highest form in the Manga)

multiplied by KaioKen times 20x would be 8x10^33 J or 1.91e18Mt

and that is massively less than 1 e24 Mt

I am NOT going to make a prediction off of SS3 Goku at Kid Buu fight as having a certain amount more Ki than Goku at Cell because that would defeat the purpose of this blog: to make accurate calculations

Further because Superman can heal when in the presence of a yellow Sun. That is another factor that would need to be taken into account.

IN SUM: Strictly looking at what is quantifiable in the Manga: at best Goku as of the Cell Saga adding in the SS3 form (because that is the highest he went in the Manga) and factoring KaioKen x 20 (as he did against Freiza)

The best he could do is at least one blast worth 8x10^33 J or 1.91e18Mt

Likely more but I again I have nothing definitive to show and refuse to compromise the rest of this analysis.

Thus based on that he could NOT bypass Superman’s durability in Space

BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE! … there is more to Goku than that!

What about Super Dragon Fist!?

And Just how much energy does Goku have!?

Super Dragon Fist is not a move Goku has used in the manga. It is only featured in the movies, GT, and the video games. Therefore, technically it is not Canon, however, seeing as how it does NOT conflict with the original Manga I am going to include it in Goku’s arsenal which significantly changes the analysis (note: this is the same as what Death Battle said it would do when doing their "analysis.")

Despite my Best Efforts to rely solely on the Manga the easiest way to quantify Goku’s ki potential actually comes from GT in his fights without healing going from the entire fight from Nuova Shenron, Eis Shenron to Syn Shenron before his family lends him energy…it should be noted that before any of this sequence started Goku was severely depleted of energy and was starving thus this is even a low figure.

Starting with Nuova: Goku fires

1Super Kamehameha in Base form

1 Super Kamehameha at SS4

1 Kamehameha x10 at SS4

Eis Shenron Shows Up

1 Super Dragon fist.

Synn Shenon

1 Kamehameha x10

*Goku then gets smacked around and turns back to base form. His family shows up powers him up and he does a Super Dragon Fist

No outside help so I am only counting one Super Dragon Fist.

So the Super Kamehamehas in base from is worth 1x 10^32J (going off the quantifiable explosive power he showed in the Cell Saga)and the x10 Kamehameha was worth 1x10^ 34J and the Super Kamehamehas in SS4 form are worth 1x10^ 33J because they get the SS4 boost but are not 10x the regular.

Either way it is irrefutable that the Super Dragon Fist minimally produces 10x 10^34J OR

minimally 10^35J

SO GOKU's ability to use ki for HIS attacks equals (at least):

which equals 2.11x10^35J + [10^35J] = 12.11x10^35

This gives you Goku’s (minimum) energy potential (notably it should be many degrees higher as I could not accurately add in Goku’s punches, kick, flying, transforming, etc. energy usage and this is solely based off of his energy attacks, NOR did I know what the max durability of Syn Shenron)

Power of the Super Dragon Fist Compared to Superman's Durability on Earth

Goku Attack Power: One Super Dragon Fist: 10e+35J = 2.39e+20 Mt

vs

Superman's Durability on Earth: suriviving 1,000,000 nuclear blasts:

2.389e+23J = 5.7x10^7Mt

Clearly EVEN A LOW END CALCULATION of Super Dragon Fist proves Goku CAN kill Superman with Super Dragon Fist on Earth. (Not necessarily in a one shot off the bat, but maybe after some fighting because that 5.7x10^7Mt feat was after Superman's durability, despite increased druability from wearing Mother Box, had been worn down through his fight with Doomsday).

If Omega Shenron can CREATE such a blast and is weaker than SS4 Fusion which is an exponential increase in power then at a bare minimum SS4 Gogeta can do that same blast in order to defeat Omega.

Proof: SS4 Gogeta is a Fusion and Fusions give an exponential increase in power:

BuuHan being outclassed by Vegito in every way

Janemba being destroyed in a single attack by Gogeta.

BUT this is best exemplified by Gotenks the fusion of Goten and Trunks who each individually could only achieve SS1 but together were exponentially strong enough to reach SS3)

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c008/9.html

Super Saiyan 1 + Super Saiyan 1= Super Saiyan 2

base x50 + base x50 = 2 x base x50 = SS2

Super Saiyan 3 is 400 x base. In no way shape or form does mere addition EVER amount to the minimum boost of SS3.

Thus CONFIRMING THE EXPONENTIAL POWER INCREASE OF FUSION.

Further Confirming this exponential increase of power is the fact it took Goku years to achieve said transformation and his base form is well above and beyond the abilities of Gotenks and Trunks in base form.

No assumptions have been made this is based off of fact as depicted on the show

This analysis on Fusion is canon to Dragon ball Z and the quantifiable bare minimumal increase in abilities of Synn is in line with the feats in GT and what the characters state.

SO looking at feats:

Syn Shenron v. Goku SS4 =

fairly even (and Syn tanks a 10xKamehameha no effort)

Omega Shenron v. 2 SS4s=

both Vegeta and Goku clearly outclassed with their (added) strength working together (i.e. 2.11x10^35J + 2.11x10^35J = 4.11 x10^35 for example if they were to fire an attack together like they did against Buu before fusion)

Omega Shenron v. SS4 Gogeta

(exponentially stronger than SS4 Goku or Vegeta and SS4 Gogeta using his ultimate blast that he could only fire 2 times based on the amount of power they use and power the SS4 Gogeta Fusion uses was able to reduce Omega with one Big Bang Kamehameha from Omega to Synn Shenron http://youtu.be/536jJ9_g9Bw?t=3m2s )

SO how powerful was that attack? First figure out what is SS4 Gogeta's ki potential:

(that makes Gogeta weaker than 2 fused Gokus)

and incidentally would be the power level Goku and Vegeta would need to be at so that they are equal in order to fuse if one assume SS4 Goku is stronger than SS4 Vegeta. (fusion requires that then energies be perfectly even).

Therefore SS4 Gogeta is not overpowered:

fused: (2.11x10^35J)^2 = 2.11x10^70J

Placing SS4 Goegta's ki attack potential on the low end of 2.11x10^70J and halving that power gives you a low end calaculation of SS4 Gogeta's Bing Bang Kamehameha (had he used it sooner SS4 Gogeta could only perform 2) so it would be:

1/2 of 2.11x10^70J = one big bang bang Kamehameha

[which is (2.11x10^70J)/2]= 1.055x10^70J

Confirmed by the Fusion wearing off after 1 attack and only being able to perform 2.

Thus proving that Omega Shenron is exponentially more durable after his absorbtion/fusion with the other Dragons.

Thus at a minimum we need to ^2 Synn Shenron's durability for it to be equal to Omega's becuase it took 1.055x10^70J which is more than (10^34)^2J of damage to break through Omega's durability and that STILL DID NOT completely destroy Omega, yet the Super Dragon Fist went through him and Omega recovered!

which ALSO verifies the power Omega can generate to destroy the entire universe with a 10^68J+ blast!

FURTHER due to Omega being able to create a 10^68J+ blast the ability of the Super Dragon Fist to compeletely destroy Omega would deductively need to be capable of generating (10^34J)^2=10^68J of force to go through Omega's resistance. (notably omega reforms after being obliterated by Super Dragon Fist: http://youtu.be/75Gw2FlypFA?t=2m33s)

Restated and Confirmed:

Exponentially increase Synn's power/durablity by a minimum of ^2 (and not ^6 even though he combined with all 6 of the shadow dragons because not each of those Dragons were on Synn's level all though Eis and Nuova were very close as seen when Synn with all the dragonballs except for Nuova is not wholley outclassing Nuova after the Gogeta fusion this was still an absorbtion an not a true fusion):

So Omega's durability is greater than(x10Kamehameha)^2 becuase Omega tanks a blast from SS4 Gogeta that is more powerful than that

AND the Big Bang Kamehameha does not obliterate Omega entirely rather it only reduced Synn.

SS4 Goku's Super Dragon Fist could penetrate and explode through Omega Shenron, Therefore it must be equal between

10^35J on the incredibly low end and

10^68J on the high end becuase of the power and force Omega can generate

Notably, Super Dragon Fist being able to generate 10^68J of force is more than confirmed and likely as it bypassed Omega's durability and still failed to fully obliterate Omega for 2 reasons

(1) due to Omega's regenerative power and

(2) the attack although the ki dragon does strangle and explode is still a concentrated attack and not a fully enveloping energy beam like SS4 Gogeta's worth 1.055 x10^70J

which, again, only reverted Omega back to Synn while the Super Dragonfist exploded through Omega and Omega recoverd!

Gogeta's more powerful enveloping attack also failed to fully disentegrate Omega becuase of the massive size and less concentrated nature of the blast--energy spreads out over area that's simple physics.

Hence why Super Dragon Fist cannot kill people who can regenerate from mist like Omega and Buu but could penetrate Omega's intense durability.

In sum:

taking Syn's durability (easily tanking 10x Kamehameha= 10^34 )

and ^2 it

gives Omega's new durability which was susceptible to the Super Dragonfist

so the Dragon Fist to bypass said durability must equal the destructive power of 10^68J

which is confirmed by the less concentrated Big Bang Kamehameha blast worth 1.055x10^70 spreading out over Omega and reducing him to only to Synn becuase of its less concentrated nature (energy spreading out over area) not obliterating Omega enitrely.

Thus the power of the Super Dragon fist ranges between

10^35J and

10^68J

I will be using 10^35J to not overpower Son Goku.

Note: Even if you assumed that magic made Omega more durable that still does NOT negate the fact that 1x10^68J is proven as the necessary concusive force needed to penetrate Omega Shenron, and only goes to the fact that magic made Omega Shenron as durable as that and thus in no way changes the analysis. I am not going to beef up Omega's stats to make Goku look even more impressive.

Note: if you make Gogeta's attacks stronger or his ki potential greater it only proves Omega would be more durable than this low end calculation based solely off of quantifiable facts and therefore the Super Dragonfist more powerful.

Superman's Durability Compared to Super Dragon Fist

Superman's Durability in Space

Superman Durability on Shadow Moon:

10e44J = 2.39e+29Mt

Superman Durability in Superman vs. the Elite:

15x (10^44) =1.5e46J= 3.58e+30Mt

Superman Being Smashed between to Planets and being knocked unconscious

1.8x10^35J= 4.30210325e+19Mt

Superman's Durability on Earth:

1,000,000 Nuclear Blast Euivalent

2.39e+23J = 5.7e+7Mt

Goku Attack Power:

One Super Dragon Fist: between

10e35J = 2.39e+20 Mt

10e68J = 2.39e+53 Mt

Clearly EVEN A LOW END CALCULATION of Super Dragon Fist proves Goku CAN kill Superman on Earth with Super Dragon Fist! And at the very least Knock him unconscious in space!

AND the High End Calculation clearly shows Goku CAN kill Superman with Super Dragon Fist EVEN in Space

I will ONLY be using the low end 10e35J calculation despite the validity of the 10e68J figure so there are no claims that "Goku was overpowered"

---------------------------------------------------------------------

BUT Can Goku survive a fight with Superman long enough to even pull it off?!?

Could Superman just TAKE GOKU into SPACE and never worry about the Super Dragon Fist?!?!?

WHAT IS GOKU’s DURABILITY!?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

MISTAKE 4: Goku's Durability

1st Why DeathBattle is Wrong:

Deathbattle failed to analyze Goku's use of Ki and how that translates to his durability, strength, and striking power. ("One Shot" Striking power already discussed above)

Death Battle's Durability = Potential calculation is ludicrous for the simple reason that Goku through using Kaio Ken and SS forms INCREASES his power output beyond what his base form is capable of. Otherwise he would be able to tap into the same potential in base form and not need the power up.

In fact the manga directly contradicts DeathBattle: Kaio-ken allows Goku to become "even stronger than [himself]"

FURTHER, Dr. Gero did not even know Goku could turn into a Super Saiyan and there is no proof that the bomb in Android 16 would have even worked on Goku.

Again, the Manga even conflicts with Death Battle's analysis becuase Dr. Gero admits he was wrong:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v29/c007/15.html

So again, DeathBattle's whole analysis on the bomb is a faulty assumption much like how DeathBattle "calculated" Goku's speed.

Further the bomb's statistics come from a filler anime scene number that the DeathBattle team got from the bomb that had no context! So they made up what it meant so they could say that was Goku's potential which equals his durability, rather than actually do an analysis on Goku's durability versus Superman's striking power.

DeathBatte's faulty analysis on durability was more pervasive than that as they discounted how Ki relates to Goku's lifting strength versus striking power (referring to the above analysis on Super Dragon Fist).

Instead Deathbattle took Goku training with the weights all day and then needing to go Super Saiyan to do more, after already having been working out (notice the sweat and statements, as Goku's peak, so that they had easy numbers to crunch rather than doing a true analysis).

Goku's strength is wrong, look at DeathBattle's figure in context:

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/429/5/

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/429/6/

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/429/7/

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/429/8/

At Super Saiyan AFTER TRAINING AND BEING FATIGUED 10 Tons is "No Problem"...

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/429/9/

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/429/10/

What DeathBattle put Goku's peak strength at was the result of trying to quantify what was easy rather than what was accurate. Goku states that in SS form the weight is "a piece of cake":

So how strong is Goku? Stronger than 10 tons on each limb that's for sure! BUT even if one erroneously concludes that this training is Goku's max strength, it still does not change the outcome of how hard Goku hits or what his destructive capablities are based on his use of Ki.

Kaio-Ken, Super Saiyan, etc. all make Goku "stronger" than his base form "stronger than he actually is". Thus, disproving DeathBattle's durability=potential power calcualtion.

More to the point his striking power exceeds his durability as seen via his Super Dragon Fist's proven destructive power.

So then what we need to know is how durable is Goku compared to Superman's assault capabilities. From here I will now do the correct analysis:

GOKU’s Durability COMPARED to Superman’s Striking Power:

SUPERMAN:

FIRST, what if Superman grabbed hold of Goku? He could easily grab Goku, fly him into the sun and that’d be the end of it, afterall Superman is capable of being physically stronger he has no upward limit on lifting Strength given enough time AND Superman becomes stronger the closer he is to the sun, so as he flew Goku higher he would be stronger? Well, Yes and No.

First the Yes:

Superman after a sundipdid do the fluke 6.6 Quintillion ton lift with one arm!...But that was after a Sundip

...Afterall that's how Superman was able to move the Earth!

…So it is fairly safe to say that Superman can do that Quintillion lift all day every day, and obviously more if in the presence of the sun and given enough time.

Notably Superman uses up the least of his Solar reserves when he is only doing feats of strength such as lifting and pulling when compared to accelerating, heat vision, etc.

Although the scans come from the New 52 series, over the course of Superman's Super hero career his strength feats have always been shown to deplete the least of his solar reserves when compared to using his other abilities.

The Same is True for Superman's acceleration and overall speed:

Exerting more effort, as the Justic League discusses, allows Superman to go FTL, although in the scan he is trying to just stay under:

…with ENOUGH TIME, not a lot but just enough, Superman can lift and fly to …I guess infinity!

…But that IS the problem, enough time, Goku in an instant is quicker than Superman is. Although Superman is capable of going well beyond Goku’s upward limit he does not move as quickly as Goku does. Thus, like Wonder Woman:

..."and nobody argues with Batman"

Even in front of the Sun Wonder Woman is STILL quicker (see her shove Kryptonite into Superman's face):

Even beat up and in the heat of battle, being battle trained and level headed she is still able to be quicker and yet not fatal:

Again Superman can be infanently faster than Goku, but not in an instant:

Editor's note: The point is NOT that Superman accelerates slower than bullets, he does not he even says in this scan he is faster. The point is Superman cannot be as instantly fast as he needed to be. Period. His acceleration can be exponentially increasing over time, but is NOT as fast as Goku's in an instant. Superman's top speed can go to infinity like his strength, but not in an instant. (see below for more detail).

Superman’s Acceleration:

Superman has constant Exponentially increasing Acceleration (OVER TIME) so based on what according to DeathBattle Batman allegedly said his top flight speed was his instant movement would be: 4,722,222km/s2+ (Superman would be exerting effort over time...which would drain more energy on Earth than in Space due to the less direct access to Yellow Sunlight)

(and that is generous given that as Superman tries harder he accelerates more so this figure assumes a constant steady acceleration as opposed to one that starts off small and gradually increases like why he was unable to stop the bullets from hitting the POWs...not instantly FTL but this figure implies that he is for the sake of the analysis.)

SO Superman's limitless speed does have a limit based on how much Sun charge he has and is dependent on the time needed to accelerate to get to those top speeds and the amount of sun light he would be able to absorb.

Thus, Goku's acceleration and proven massively faster than lightspeed fighting gives him an edge to avoid such maneuvers of being flown into the sun.

Like Wonder Woman Goku is quicker than Superman do to his constant battle training and Saiyan muscle memory; so observing or sensing even the subtle movements of Superman would prevent Goku from being hoisted away by Superman to the sun.

This is also confirmed by the above acceleration calculations.

Thus, because Superman would be unable to use the Infinite Mass Punch or just take Goku to the sun it is necessary to determine how hard Superman can hit and how much Goku can withstand to see if Goku would even last long enough to pull off a Super Dragon Fist.

Editor's Note:

Some fans have said Superman moved Mageddon. That thing is bigger than the friggen Sun (which is the yellow circle in the front)!

...given enough time Superman can push and pull to infinity so this does seem possible...

...However, what actually happened was Superman went to stop Mageddon from eating the planet, but got trapped and became apart of it ...

p. 160

...Superman was chained to the millwheels of the Mageddon machinery. He then used his strength in an effort to move the gears of the weapon and thus move Mageddon from the inside.

This is different from pusshing or pulling on the object from the outside. There is no basis for what effort it would take to turn these "gears" or any time frame or distance traveled...

So any analysis on it would be mere speculation. However, given Mageddon's size it is still impressive!

p.180

Despite the crippling despair Mageddon was bombarding him with, Superman was able to free himself from Mageddon's chains thanks to encouragement from Batman (communicating via the Marttian Manhunter's telepathic link) and a blind Aztek's sacrifice.

p. 182

When the Aztec self-destructed in the process, fulfilling his life's mission and severly damaging Mageddon, Superman was able to break free.

p.183

And Ultimately...

p.196

p.197

absorb the anti-sunlight just as well as regular sunlight which shut the warhead down. Had Aztec not sacrificed himself that same warhead could have blown up half a galaxy.

There is no time frame but a second seems reasonable based on the panels so let’s say that Captain marvel was sent at 4,034km/s! And that he weighs 200LBS (cuz he is swole or 90kg)

that would require Force=90kg x 2,506km/s=225,540newtons!

NOT too shabby! Ok so that’s probably an average punch.

Superman has also been stated to Shatter small planets with his fists, in context he could be referring to his Infinite Mass Punch but in all likelihood he means what he does when doing his regular haymakers as shown below

Even doing so on the defensive:

BUT once he get’s his momentum going it’s all over (which goes back to the quickness factor) BUT clearly Superman would be able to bombard Goku with a plethora of Small Planet Shattering punches.

I am putting his peak punches power at shattering small planets when he is in a one on one fight becuase no other media that I have seen has shown he can do more without the benefit of a sundip or once already acclerating towards something as in the Infinant Mass Punch. And the below scan is boastful so if he could do more in all liklihood he would say so:

I would even venture to say he could do those punches at light speed, given the below scan:

SO Can Goku Survive Small Planet Shattering FTL punches?

Goku’s durability: So how much force does it take to “Shatter a Small Planet”?

Luckily I do not have to put an exact number on how much force it takes to “Shatter a Small Planet” because we have proof that Goku can withstand the force of punches that would shatter individuals whose durability without ki can withstand medium sized planet explosions.

More force is needed to explode than shatter as shattering can still leave large remnants of the object intact whereas an explosion is a near or actual total dientigration of the object.

Consequently, because Goku can withstand punches that SHATTER individuals who tank MEDIUM sized planet EXPLOSIONS he can also withstand punches that SHATTER small planets,

because shattering a planet requires less concussive force than exploding it.

Freiza’s durability is unable to withstand Goku's final blast to him on Namek BUT when the planet exploded he did not sustain any more damage. Frieza’s body was able to withstand the explosion of a medium sized planet without virtually any ki.

Restated and confirmed that having the cells of an individual give Cell more than juts their ki but their physical attributes as well (such as durability and regeneration):

Looking at the Anime: If we include a filler scene then it further confirms that like Cell’s enhance regenerative capabilities beyond what Piccolo can do so too are his Frieza durability cells more enhanced than even Frieza’s no ki durability, because a destructo disk type ki blast sliced Frieza in half but does nothing to Cell:

Destructo disk destroyed Frieza:

The Cell Juniors and Cell all have the same concussive durability as Planet Explosion tanking Frieza, because the Cell Juniors are Cell’s “children” and have Cell’s “cells” which includes planet tanking Frieza’s cells.

Now, obviously Cell has more ki and so can put up a more durable ki defense than the Cell Juniors:

But nonetheless Gohan’s punches shattered individuals capable of withstanding medium planet explosions without ki (ie Freiza). And even with Ki as a defense Gohan’s fist shattered the Cell Juniors who had the durability to tank at least medium planet explosions becuase they have Frieza's cells.

Goku is stronger than SS2 Gohan when he fought Cell and that is not even the peak of Goku’s power:

Both Goku and Vegeta are more powerful than SS2 Gohan during Cell Saga:

Vegeta has more technique and power than SS2 Gohan against Cell, and is not holding back against Goku. Vegeta is hitting Goku with more power than SS2 Cell Saga Fight Gohan could when he was shattering the medium planet tanking Cell Juniors:

Trunk goes all out against Goku:

Trunks is unable to harm Goku

Further Confirmed

Being able to destroy Frieza with one blow takes someone of medium planet cracking strength becuase Frieza tanked Namek exploding.

Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger then all of the Kai's as he was able to take on Kid Buu and tank his blows as well has harm him which means more force per punch as all the Kais were just killed.

This confirms the Cell Junior Feats of Gohan at weaker SS2 being comparable to stronger SS2 Goku. Meaning both have the same minimal punching power to shatter beings equivalent to Freiza's durability.

It also Confirms Goku's feats of easily tanking the murderous Vegeta's blows which were minimally on par with Gohan's...which again would shatter medium sized planet tanking Frieza.

Goku can easily withstand the force of a small planet shattering punch

EVEN MORE PROOF:

in GT Baby, who is massively stronger than a SS3 [which hits 4x more than a SS2 (which can easily destory beings who can withstand medium sized planets exploding), hits SS4 Goku and his punches do virtually no damage:] http://youtu.be/WfHOUW5M8Qs?t=59s

Baby in his near strongest form (before Golden Oozaru) punches Goku SS4 with no affect.

BUT once Goku becomes SS4 those same destructive punches which were vastly more powerful than what a SS2 can dish out now "only tickled, like a little feather."

Against a Super Saiyan 4 Goku, Superman would need to somehow hit massively harder than he has ever boasted to be able to hit before.

However if Goku has his gaurd down, unlike Superman he is not automatically as super durable. Goku's durability/gaurd comes from his use of ki. If he is not on gaurd or using his ki he would be affected significantly by such planet shattering punches:

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/463/4/

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/463/5/

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/463/6/

In sum: Goku is durable enough to tank, catch, and dish out punches and kicks that would shatter someone who could tank a medium sized planet explosion, if he is using his ki.

Goku is durable enough to withstand small planet shattering punches

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Final Category:

Other Miscalenous Characteristics which affect the fight between Superman and Goku

SUPERMAN

Superman's Absorption/Healing Factor:

In the Dark Knight Returns:

Superman is able to heal after being in a near skeletal state over the course of several seconds:

Comic version of the Dark Knight Returns

It takes a lot of juice for Superman to remain invulnerable to a ground zero nuke (at least in this comic). So since it horribly drained him Superman had to find a way to recharge or get to sunlight quickly. Superman does this via plants that have soaked up, much like Superman himself would, sunlight.

Being "powered by the yellow sun" Superman is able absorb solar energy from the area stored in the plants around him to heal from "using up" his power when he tanked the warhead.

NOTE: This is NOT being used as a durbaility feat, rather, this is being used to show Superman's healing capabilities.

Superman can even absorb anti Sunlight Just as well as regular sunlight!

(Discussed above) Mageddon was bombarding Superman with crippling despair, but Superman was able to free himself from Mageddon's chains thanks to encouragement from Batman (communicating via the Marttian Manhunter's telepathic link) and was freed by a blind Aztek who self-destructed in the process, fulfilling his life's mission and severly damaging Mageddon.

Ultimately...

Superman's body was able to absorb the anti-sunlight just as well as regular sunlight which shut the warhead down. Had Aztec not sacrificed himself that same warhead could have blown up half a galaxy

Recovering from being at ground 0 of 1 million nuclear warhead (not sunlight related so healing factor not absorption rate):

57MT x 1,000,000= 57,000,000 MT or 5.7x10^7MT

...Superman's durability is still confirmed as stronger in space where in Superman vs. the Elite he withstood 2.39 x 10^+29Mt

And the shadow moon feat which knocked him unconscious at 1x 10^24 Mt

Healing from throat slit by Wonder Woman's magic Tiara:

So it seems pretty apparant that Superman when he is bleeding has a much more difficult time healing himself than when his body is fully intact. Note: Wonder Woman could only bipass Superman's durability becuase her tiara has some magic in it which Superman has less than his normal resistance against.

Superman's Ice Breath

Ice Breath will be ineffective on Goku becuase Goku has already encounter Eis Shenron who used freezing attacks, and once Goku's body experiences an attack it remembers and compensates for the next round.

I used SS4 rather than manga Dragonball (w/Bunnies cuz some people claim outlier), movie or filler Goku becuase SS4 resistance to ice was arguably more underpowered, although ostensibly maybe Eis Shenron is just that powerful!

Either way in the manga, movies and anime Goku at certain points goes to Earth's outer atmosphere and is not effected by the cold.

When exiting or entering the atmosphere there is a temperature inversion and it is extremely hot then gets as low as -100 C and 0 K which is absolute zero in some parts of space. Either way trhe point is Goku sustains that flux no effort.

Superman's Heat Vision

It can do concusive blasts:

Has the potential to get so hot science cannot even read how hot it is!

Can be expanded to fill up everything in Superman's line of sight!!

AND can even patch up holes in the friggin space time contiuum!!!

BUT none of that matters because that is all what Superman is capable of, not what he can INSTANTLY do (well excpet hit everything in his line of sight). When he tried to kill Wonder Woman thinking she was Doomsday his Heat Vision starts out burning through her skin and into her bone but not right through her so we know how hot its maximum initial output is:

Goku can withstand the surface temperature of the sun without it melting his skin or even actually burning him. Surface Temperature of the sun is approximately 5778 K (9940.73°F).

(6:09 Goku's hands cannot take the heat but keep watching and see how his body adapts)

(Nova states at 6:36 he can make his temperature hotter than the sun) .

If you watch the whole episode you can see that at first Goku's hands cannot even touch Nova in his less intensive temperature state without being burnt or catching on fire. But then Goku builds up the resisitance, as he explained about his body to Eis Shenron [above]. After building up the resistance Goku is able to even be held for long periods by the higher temperature sun surface upgraded version of Nova in his golden body state.

So since Superman's intial blast without time to increase its power is around 2400°F (at most...considering the power plant figure I used is very generous), that means Goku would be 4 times more durable than Superman's initial output of such a blast that he could issue.

Editor's Note: If we use the Anime filler scenes then that would only make Goku's heat durability stronger, hence why I used the SS4 stated durability as that was lower ended:

Superman's X-Ray Vision

Massive Advantage for Superman he could see Goku's insides and likely figure out that Goku needs oxygen to live.

BUT as stated earlier any attempt to fly Goku into the sun would be to no avail. But still it gives Superman an Edge.

Superman's Instant Labotomy Feat

Superman once did an instant labotomy on Manchester Black by looking into his eyes during a conversation:

This move would likely still not affect Goku becuase Goku can sense ki which is energy and this would be energy going into his eyes plus the force needed to break through Goku's ki barrier would need to be intense making the light visible.

Meaning Superman could bore through his eyes but Goku would be aware of it going on...thus a sneak instant labotomy would not work.

Although notably the heat vision could still be invisble because Toriyama has stated that the visual depictions of Ki is only for the aduience:

"A: Chi [Also spelled "Ki"-Editor] has been used in China since ancient times, but it's supposed to be formless and invisible. However, in manga, in order to make it easier for any reader to grasp, it was necessary to give it a shape. For the kamehameha, I myself did a lot of the different poses and chose the one that I thought would work the best." http://www.myfavoritegames.com/dragonball-z/Info/Interviews/Interviews-AkiraToriyama.htm

...So can Superman see Goku's ki?...Yeah sure why not that'd just be too cheap and besides he has super vision (see below)

Also, seeing as how Superman has never used this before or since, even when going against Doomsday, it is safe to say this is an outlier but nonetheless I do not discount it.

Superman's Super Hearing and Vision

Goku fights massively faster than light, without the ability to sense Ki, Superman will need these abilities of Super hearing and Sight to be able to react and to do battle with someone as fast as Goku.

Superman could likely hear Goku entering and exiting the pocket dimension when he uses Instant Transmission

And could likely react quick enough to at least put up a defense despite the litteral "instantness" of that move (more later)

Proof Superman can see at Lightspeed:

Proof Superman has Nano Second perception and reaction

(helps make up for lack of instantaneousness like Wonder Woman...BUT even more helpful is Torquasm Rao discussed lated)

He can even see your SOUL!

Would seeing Goku's soul reincarnated twice freak Superman out? Dunno but I wish it had been in the DeathBattle fight portion of the video for some humor

Superman's Super Intelligence

Given Superman's ability to retain data, it would seem possible that he may even know of the Saiyans lust for battle due to the many galaxies he has traveled to...but that is a stretch.

Superman's Pressure Point Fighting

Superman uses a form of Martial Arts in which he strategically attacks pressure points to incapacitate his opponent

Which is a pretty awesome skill set to have...if your opponent is someone with pressure points or at least did not train to overcome them...

The only Pressure Point Goku was ever depicted as having was his Tail

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v09/c127/2.html

BUT realizing his weakness Goku overcame that and trained his tail!

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v09/c127/4.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v09/c127/5.html

Since then Goku has taken a number of beatings even from Tien who is depicted as hitting Goku in multiple areas where pressure points should be located...AND there is NO effect!

Now, notably in Dragon Ball Z other characters have fallen victim to such pressure point maneuvers (PIS? maybe):

And in Battle of Gods it does appear that Goku is susceptible to pressure point attacks, as well!

And in Z when Goku's gaurd was down Majin Vegeta knocked him out!

Thus, arguably if Goku's gaurd is either down (Majin Vegita) or he is totally outclassed by his opponent (Billis) then a pressure point attack could work!

.However, Superman's striking power is peacked at Small Planet Shattering Punches, without momentum, and that is lower than what Goku repeatedly endured from Majin Vegeta when Goku was at SS2. At SS3 Goku can easily endure 4 times as much.

So really this technique of Superman's is nothing Goku has not been encountering since his first appearance at the Tenkaichi Budokai. Goku is an expert martial artist, he would not just stand there and allow Superman to poke all over him without putting up a defense.

In addition a Saiyan body learns from attacks and when it heals up is more durable (see the above and below scans discussing only being able to use an attack on Goku once) because his body compensates for the attack the next round. As such, Superman's pressure point maneuvers are essentially moot against Goku.

However, Goku’s battle strategy is not like any person Superman has EVER encountered, his form of martial arts is based on the Kamisenin Riu which actually is NOT a formal martial arts at ALL!!!

It is the outward expression of his physical prowess and REACTIONARY to his opponent, each fight specifically honed to his Opponent’s skill set. In Fact what makes Goku such an amazing Martial Artist is his ability perceive his opponent and learn THEIR strategy and move instantly EVEN from one time uses.

Often Goku uses the elements around him to exploit his enemies' weaknesses and on some occasions use their own attacks!

No, unless Superman already wore Goku’s durability down because again unlike Superman Goku does not tank hits he prefers to dodge.

If Superman did manage to pierce Goku, Goku would still have enough power to fight, unless he hit one of Goku's vital organs:

See also:

Further when Superman has used this attack it has been after he has focused his energy. Notice I do not say phased to dodge attacks I say when hehas usedphasingattacks.

He has also used it to speed blitz but again in an instant Goku is faster so that is not really an option.

In the end as the conclusion discusses the viability and deadliness of this phasing attack on Goku is huge but there is no easy was out in this battle.

Based on Superman’s tendencies he would first try hand to hand combat then likely combine his special powers such as ice breath and heat vision.

There would be no one shot victory for either party…although after wearing down each other’s respective durability a one shot COULD claim the day…

Superman's Kryptonian Mental Martial Arts

Torquasm-Rao

Superman can use the Kryptonian mental martial art of Torquasm-Rao to enter the "theta state" which allows the user to become extremely perceptive to his enemy (in essence it can help compensate for some of Superman's incrediblely powered yet over thinking brain and allow him to use his own reactionary skill rather than needing to process the enemy and have to react, granted nano second processing is not long but in a battle of this magnitude every increment of time is a lifetime of waiting)

Comparatively it would be on par with Goku's Ki awarness and ability to sense and actually see his oponnent without seeing them, thus Goku would not have the typical advantage he has over non ki users and those who typically rely on their other senses like eyes and hearing:

But, like Wonder Woman, Goku's 6th sense muscle memory and instantaneousness is still a major factor.**

**Now, some of you may be saying but what about the 1,000 years war where Superman fought along side Wonder Woman? Surely his muscle memory is quicker than Wonder Woman's, and battle instinct is greater by this point as well?

Well, I would be inclined to agree with you, HOWEVER, the 1,000 year war took place BEFORE Wonder Woman fought Superman in the Max Lord fight which was AFTER Mongul trained Superman to fight Imperiex AND that was also AFTER Superman fought in the 1,000 year war.

Besides, Goku trained in other world for years against the greatest fighters of each of their respective galxies, not hoards of minnions, and was able to react to the irrational and unpredictable Majin Buu...

so if Superman uses Torquasm-Rao the two combatants, in terms of sensing each other, would be about even.

Torquasm-Vo

Torquasm-Vo was a warrior rite of the Kryptonian race and was a psychic disciple that involved the control of ones consciousness which allowed two practitioners to battle one another.

The Eradicator in its guise as Kem-L engaged in Torquasm-Vo with Kal-El.

Essentially, it is an ancient Kryptonian warrior discipline that shifts Superman's consciousness on a higher plane. He can fight an enemy in a purely mental realm with this ability (see the above mech fight). It could be compared to how Buddhist monks who are communicating through a parallel plane to ours.

Would Goku and Superman have a psychic mental fight?

Theoretically it is possible...but the extent of Z Warriors abilities to fight mentally is fairly unexplored and as such any analysis on this would be pure speculation.

He punches way harder than that, so this does not really matter unless you think a sonic boom would send Goku flying. A sonic boom occurs when an object accelerates pasts or decelerates bellow (aftaer already being at) the speed of sound. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom. The speed of sound is 1,236 km/.hr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound. Mach 1.5 is 1,837.566km.hr. Nimbus goes minimal mach 1.5 according to Death Battle, and confirmed by keeping up with Jets:

That clap whould not affect Goku...but a stronger one might, I will not speculate as to what Superman's max clap is.

Superman can Spin like a Tornado and suck air out!

Although Superman has rarley used this ability, this may be even the only time, he may try and do this becuase after looking at Goku's anatomy Superman could potentially see that Goku needs oxygen to live:

...

...

BUT Goku has already faced an attack simmilar to this in GT and overcome it!

Whirlwind Spin! (which actually even had ki blades on top of the tornado like attack)

BUT later when Omega Shenron uses the same move (Whirlwind Spin) Goku, having already experienced it and in SS4 form, is virtually unaffected: http://youtu.be/RnS3IimdbRk?t=5s

So, this move likely would be ineffective.

"Sun Dipped" Superman

A Sun Dip essentially increase Superman's instantaneousness and overall power, he goes from needing to exert massive effort over time in the presence of a yellow sun to move planets, to being able to do so effortlessly within the blink of an eye.

A Sundipped Superman is a fairly unexplored territory, BUT some information comes from All Star Superman, so although it is its own seperate series I will discuss it here:

A Sundip minimally increaes Superman's abilities 3 times what they were before

One time after Superman sun dipped he had the strength to instantly rip off Darseid's arm!

Other effects include New Powers such as Bioelectric discharges:

as well as enhanced durability!

Louis blasts Superman with a Kryptonite ray gun and it has no effect!!

...the only problem is being able to get to a sun...

SON GOKU

Goku is a Fighting Genius

Goku is a battle genius who even once concoted an entire plan to save the Namekian race while fighting the univere's most powerful being, talk about multitasking! (there are more but this is my personal favorite):

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v27/c010/13.html

Realizes fairly instantly Freiza Fights Better in the Air, while everyone else though Freiza fought the same on ground and air:

INSTANT TRANSMISSION aka INSTANTANEOUS MOVEMENT

The Technique requires that Goku lock onto a Ki

READ RIGHT TO LEFT

and is only limited by his ability to sense ki at a distance (as in depending on the person it cannot be used between the realm of the kais and the other relms becuase the distance Goku would need to sense that ki would be nigh impossible) http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c007/4.html

Confirmed by Majin Buu being able to Teleport thanks to watching Kabito Kai Teleport, which does not require locking on to a ki signature.

Death Battle, however, said that Goku was essentially limited by his own concentration, which is why he had difficulty performing the move under pressure, becuase he could not conecentrate.

This is incorrect, pressure has nothing to do with it.

The most massive key during that scene was a ki ball coming at Goku that blows up the planet and the insanely powerful pink monster who threw it! All other kis were masked by that enormous amount of power, his concentration had nothing to do with being under pressurein the situationand everything to do with the overwhelming power surrounding him drowning out all else.

Nuova Shenron was even faster than Goku so Goku fought him using Instant Transmission

ABILITY ENHANCORS

When Goku fought Frieza who was 1,000s of times stronger than him and all hope seemed lost he formed a spirit bomb hoping to end the tyrant's reign of terror...but it would not be so!

Seeing Freiza murder his best friend, and being powerless to do anything, Goku transformed fulfilling an ancient Alien Prophesy the likes of which had not occurred in over a mellenia...he had overcome his "limits" again summoning the power needed to defeat Freiza

By this point Goku can Safely use x10 as seen in Freeza Fight and above anime clip:

THE SPIRIT BOMB (Genki Dama)

The Spirit Bomb is a technique Goku learned from Kaio Sama (King Kai). And essentially works by Goku being a conduit for energy and converting it into a sphere which he can use for a variety of purposes. Goku converts the energy to his use so if he gathered solar energy it would not be just a solar ball per se were he to throw it at Superman. More details below:

Charging the Spirit Bomb

Goku essentially requests all sentient life forms to give him their energy and simply draws it in from those other beings with energy who are not conscious like the sun for example:

The key is SENTIENT LIFE FORMS Must WILLINGLEY GIVE their energy

Uses:

The Genki Dama can be used as a projectile attack against Goku's enemies or can be absorbed by himself to super charge and increase his power vastly beyond his "limits"

Destroying Enemies

GT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNtke4BFAdY

Increasing Goku's Power

In the Super Android 13 Movie Goku absorbed the power of the Spirit bomb and over powered himself to what degree is never stated, but he went from having difficulty fighting Android 13 to being able to kill Super android 13 in a single blow!

The Charge Time

The charge time depends on what Goku needs the bomb for.

The Charge time for Goku to use the Spirit Bomb as an attack on those equal to him in ability is exceedingly long

Thus, using this as an attack on Superman is not really a viable option becuase Goku would lack the requisite time neccessary to charge it up enough.

Weaker Fighters need less energy so less charge time. Goku can in fact charge up a small spirit bomb during the duration of a solar flare:

He never did that in the Manga, Anime, Movies, GT or even the darn video games so JUST no.

Besides a solar flare to Superman would likely accomplish one of the following things:

NOTHING, it would have 0 effect

It would be Super Effective meaning the Solar energy over powered his eyes and therefore Superman had even far superior sight

It would significantly blind Superman by over chraging his eyes to an instantaneous extreme becuase he was not prepared for such a blast unlike when he flies into the sun, but his other Super senses would then be peaked... so again really no affect

Goku as a kid could dodge it...(some times he can sometimes he cannot) depending on the heat of battle Superman could even dodge it!

None of which are pleasant for Goku...

Vulnerabilities while charging

Goku must stand with his arms up to collect the energy...which leaves him open to attack so again the Spirit Bomb is not particulalry viable in this fight

BUT...he can dodge and not lose it

ALSO, the Spirit Bomb CAN be bounced if youy have NO Evil Ki...

...AGAIN, NOT Will Be, RATHER, CAN BE BOUNCED Back!

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c240/4.html

Meaning...Superman likely has no evil Ki in him but that does NOT mean he would automatically bounce it back only that he could.

If bouncing it back was automatic when the target had no evil Ki then Goku would not have worried about being unable to push the Genki Dama back into Buu! Rather he would have simply bounced it back, but becuase that is not the case, bounce back is not automatic, Goku struggled to push the Spirit Bomb back at and into Buu. And if we include the Super Android 13 movie that means ostensibly Goku could have absorbed it...but again either way, bounce back was NOT automatic.

Analysis:

The Spirit Bomb would/could be massively helpful for Goku in terms of attack power and overall power boost...however the max charge time he would be able to get in a one on one fight with Superman would likely come from a solar flare and we know that will not do really anything to Superman and may even potentially boost Superman's powers! So unfortunately, like Superman being able to Sun dip, the Spirit Bomb is also not a viable option for Goku in this fight.

----------------------------------------------

Outlier: Fighting Dirty

In a Pinch Goku will use some semi dirty moves to escape his opponent:

Biting

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v26/c011/12.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c008/9.html

Solar Flare (I think blinding your oponent is a dirty move...but it is debateable...although not necessarily dirty in life and death circumstances...)

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v15/c011/5.html

WEAKNESSES

Superman's Weaknesses

ENERGY SUPPLY

One of Superman's greatest strengths is also one of his most potent weaknesses.

NO sun = No Power.

Superman is wholely reliant on the yellow sun for his powers and can only store so much energy (granted out of yellow sunlight for a certain amount of time does not mean he hits 0 becuase obviously he does store some sun within himself)

The more damage he takes the more solar radiation he needs to heal to get back to 100%.

Same with fighting. If Superman is dealing out a ton of punches and having to exert a lot of energy then his Solar reserves will depleat. This is how Doomsday sent him into a "healing coma"

Contrary to popular belief Superman is not limitless, as his feats require him to use his stored solar power. However, given enough time and in the presence of a yellow sun Superman can continue to absorb solar radiation from the sun or rocks and plants and accomplsih limitless feats such as lifting a book of infinity pages!

the impact creates a nuclear fallout effect blocking out the sun, but Superman over time is able to absorb enough sunlight from the rocks to get back his depleted power.

The mere fact that in some instances Superman must "sundip" to accomplish his goals prove he is not always at a limitless supply of power.

Further, Superman's limits are clearly evidenced by his Infinite Mass Punch knocking him out cold.

If Superman did not have a certain amount of reserve energy that needed replenishing then he would never need to "sundip" or rise into the sky to heal or be knocked out by exerting a certain amount of force.

Goku's Weaknesses

Battle Lust:

Goku loves to fight strong opponents and test his abilities, he will even let an opponent power up, if he is confident in the outcome:

BUT, unlike Vegeta, Goku does not over estimate his abilities and instead would rather err on the side of caution when it comes to saving Earth and others, or when he is not sure if he himself could beat his opponent. As a Super Saiyan Goku urges Gohan to end Cell:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v35/c003//

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v35/c003/2.html

At SS2 sensing the imensese power of Majin Buu Goku stops the fights with Vegeta

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v39/c002/5.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v39/c003/2.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v39/c003/3.html

At SS3 Goku realizes Trunks has succeeded in his mission to get the Dragon Radar and stops the fight with Majin Buu so that he does not use up any more of his time on Earth so that he can train Trunks and Goten to do fusion.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v40/c003/9.html

At SS4 Goku even eats a Dragonball to prevent Omega Shenron from regaining his full power.

ENERGY SUPPLY

Goku needs food and when he's hungry then he may be tapped out he is not like Superman who is constantly charging

Goku may be powerful enough to break the manga itself lol BUT if out of food even Yamcha can beat him!

Food Supply STILL matters in Z and GT

[although get him angry enough and nothing seems to matter; his rage or sheer will power allows him to persevere]

Here are just a couple of Examples:

Frieza Saga: so worn out he nearly drowns

BUT after Krillen is Killed and Goku ascends he has all the energy he needs!

GT

After tanking several Earth destroying blasts Goku essentially brings himself back to the fight through his own will power and tanks more destructive blasts while creating a universal spirit bomb to destroy Omega Shenron.

Plot Induced Stupidity...maybe...

NOTE on SS3

SS3 consumes a massive amount of energy and can be impractical to use, however if we include

Janemba fight

and the Hirudegarn fight

from the movies Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon then the transformation is seen as being much easier for Goku to maintain than he did against Majin Buu.

*This is again based off of the low end Namek traverse speed and not the proven faster fighting speed

Base form: 12,756.2km/s^2

At SS1: 637,810km/s^2

At SS2: 1,275,620km/s^2

At SS3: 5,102,480 km/s^2

At SS4: 51,024,800km/s^2

Superman has constant increasing Acceleration (OVER TIME) so based on the comics his max instant movement would be: 4,722,222km/s

(But can increase more if exerting effort over time)

(and that is generous given that as he tries harder he accelerates and the number assumes a constant steady acceleration as opposed to one that starts off small and gradually increases like why he was unable to stop the bullets from hitting the POWs)

SS2: 2x10^32J= 4.78e+16MT+

SS3: 8x10^32J= 1.91e+17MT+

SS4: 400x10^32J= 1.912e+19Mt

(all based off the manga and not the anime filler Gero bomb scene with a made up context for the number becuase no unit was given, etc.)

One Shot Durability:

Cell Saga: Blast able to wipe out Earth kills SS1

Buu Saga: Blast able to wipe out Earth 10 times would kill SS2

Baby Saga in GT: tanks blast able to destroy Earth.

Average punch: 1,109,840,944 psi= 7.80x10^7MT

Small Planet Shattering Punch= Less than 4.78e+16MT (which is medium planet exploding power)

Superman’s Range Attacks:

Heat Vision: no effect (in terms of initial output but could work as concussive force, but drains energy more reapidly than other attacks)

Ice Breath: no effect

Tornado Clapping: no effect

Friction Rift Ceiling: never been used in battle N/A

Superman’s Ultimate Attacks:

INFINITE MASS PUNCH

42e38J = 1x e24 Mt

PHASING PUNCH

Could be Fatal if he hits Goku in a vital area

Goku’s Striking Power:

Superman's Durability

SS2: Stronger than Gohan at SS2 so minimally can deal out punches that shatter medium sized planet explosion tankers.

2x10^32J=explode a medium sized planet= 4.78e+16MT+

Punches and Kicks:

SS2: 2x10^32J= 4.78e+16MT+

SS3: 8x10^32J= 1.91e+17MT+

SS4: 400x10^32J= 1.912e+19MT+

Goku’s Range Attacks:

Kamehameha:

SS1= 10^32J

SS2=2x10^32J

SS3=4x10^32J

SS4=10x10^32J =

x10 Kamehameha= 10^34

Goku’s Ultimate Attack:

SUPER DRAGON FIST (only using the low end number):

SS3: 10e34+J = 2.39x10^18Mt

SS4: 10e35+J = 2.39x10^20Mt

Superman's solar power can rise infanantly but NOT in an instant, Superman can run out of power based on what he exerts such as when he survived doing his Infanant Mass Punch but it knocked him out cold due to the energy he exerted staying just under the Speed of light. Or Doomsday putting Superman into a healing Coma.

(w/o factoring healing):

One Shot Durability in Space

Superman v. the Elite = 3.58 x10^30 Mt

Shadow Moon = 2.39x10^29 Mt

Planet Collision= 4.3x10^19Mt

Force of Earth to Face =Medium Planet punch?

One Shot Durability on Earth after Fighting

(fighting Doomsday w/ armor the Explosion): 5.7x10^7M

Fighting Durability

Punching and Kicking Durability and Affects on wearing down invulnerability and Healing Factor discussed in detail below.

Superman’s capacity for absorbing Sunlight is not infinite.

Although his ability to absorb sun light is constant.

If Superman was storing an infinite amount of solar radiation he would never need to rise in the air to heal as his infinite reserve would never deplete.

Further, Superman would not need to sundip to achieve more impossible feats as a power boost because his prolonged exposure by living on Earth for 39 years should be sufficient with his infinite supply because he is constantly absorbing solar power.

Superman would be akin to Majin Buu and be able to regenerate without having any weakness whatsoever or needing to rejuvenate.

And if that were the case the only way to harm Superman would be to truly destroy him so completely down to a subatomic level not a single atom was left for Superman to regenerate from gathering yellow sunlight.

Superman’s body in physical terms works similar to photosynthesis as energy absorption.

Charging his cells and allowing him to achieve greater feats of strength, speed, attack power and durability.

Those feats can be limitless when placed in the presence of a yellow sun and continuously absorbing yellow sunlight from the sun or plants and objects around him.

Measuring Superman’s durability and other feats in space easily show that he can withstand (Shadow Moon feat) 2.39 x 10^29Mt of Force

This difference makes sense because while on Earth Superman must contend with the solar rays being spread out all over the planet and being absorbed by the plants animals and being bounced of the planet’s surface and into the atmosphere.

However, in space Superman has no one else to share that power with, but nonetheless he does run out of juice and needs to recharge.

Thus, the question becomes: what would it take for Goku to kill the constantly charging battery?

If the battle went to Space Superman would be even more difficult to defeat.

But the fight would not go to space for three reasons:

1st, Goku could not breathe in space and therefore would never fight there.

2nd Nor, could Superman try and maneuver Goku into Space because Goku from SS 1 and on IS quicker than Superman in an instant and being a Saiyan (a warrior race) has superior fighting instinct and muscle memory to Wonder Woman who is quicker than Superman according to Batman.

“And NOBODY argues with the damned Batman”

3rd, if Superman tried to flee the fight Goku would not allow it even if Superman appealed to Goku’s lust for battle because although Goku, like Vegeta, enjoys a battle he does not let a fight prolong that he is unsure of if he can win, which is unlike Vegeta.

But even if you were to erroneously claim that Superman has the same absorbing capacity on Earth and thus the same Durability as in Space the result would not change:

First, Superman could try his infinite mass punch.

But that move must be performed under the speed of light and works by the user building up mass and moving towards his opponent so the move, much like Goku’s spirit bomb, would be inoperable in a battle of this magnitude.

Second, he could try to beat Goku to death with any combination of punches and heat vision blasts (notably this depletes his recharging energy supply)

Superman’s punches are capable of shattering small planets, and given his ability to infinitely increase his solar power over time or do more once he got his momentum going he could definitely break through some of Goku’s durability.

However, such attacks would require Superman to expend a significant amount of energy.

Further, Superman is himself clearly susceptible to punches which are on par with his own.

Those same punches Goku demonstrates at SS2.

So, could Goku survive long enough to land enough hits or one hit to bypass Superman’s durability?

The Kamehameha requires the user to power up the blast

So that attack could not work as a one shot kill but would reduce some of Superman’s durability.

Goku’s punches can be massively faster than light speed but they would fail to bypass Superman’s durability in a one shot

SO what does it take to lower Superman’s Durability?

When Superman takes a hit his super dense bio-molecular structure and biol-electric aura protect him and his suit because his just above his skin.

Superman’s solar energy can be depleted over time which means his durability goes down.

This can be done if

Superman is in the presence of Kryptonite

For extended periods of time Superman is out of the presence of

A Yellow Sun Or

Yellow Sun aborbing organisms

OR over the course of a battle.

Seeing as how certain hits will bypass Superman’s durability or (and at a minimum) will cause him to weaken over the course of enduring several of those hits and thus cause his suit to be torn we can ascertain what will wear Superman down.

Going from the hardest Superman Durability breakers to the weakest one:

Tanking One Shot Explosions

Tanking Supernova where all he does is exert energy to fly into it: No durability has been worn down thus Clothes are only mildly scuffed up, thus a one shot attack of 10^44J would not kill him only knock him out:

Superman Exerting energy to stay under the speed of light, uses up some solar power despite constant absorption so NOW 10^44J explosion does very much bypass Superman’s durability making Superman’s clothes tear. A one shot 10^44J energy attack after Superman has used up some solar power will bypass some of Superman’s durability and could pierce his skin:

Battles

Death of Superman:

At First Doomsday’s punches do NOT affect Superman

BUT over time when Superman’s durability has been lessoned due to having to take hits and use energy to deliver hits Superman’s clothes are torn and he is beaten and bloodied:

Despite Doomsday essentially being Retconned the “Death of Superman” Storyline and Hunter/Prey are STILL CANON:

Essentially Doomsday got so overpowered that they retconned him by “saving him from dying in Hunter/Prey”:

And Gave Doomsday awareness, which made him fearful of death by entropy and thus weaker. Superman discusses this himself and it is shown multiple time. Doomday cannot even withstand star blasts and breaks easily now!

Heck Superman's costume and cape are tattered from a Supernova explosion, but against an Imperiex probe there is no damage, and that same blast vaporizes Doomdsay

(ie Doomsday was not even phased by a 5.7x10^7Mt nuclear blast in Hunter/Prey but now is vaporized by a blast worth less than a Supernova!)

Doomsday is nowhere near as strong as Hunter/Prey. .

Which makes sense because if Doomsday came back from Hunter/Prey then Superman could never defeat him.

SO what about other Kryptonian punches? You know punches with the same force as Superman’s?

Zod (arguably instantly stronger is incredibly effective)

Supergirl who thinks she hits harder, but she does not, still weakens and bypasses Superman’s durability and draws blood:

Superman stronger than supergirl

Non Kryptonians

Wonder Woman making him bleed:

Wonder Woman often bypasses Superman's durability with her non Kryptonian less than Small Planet Shattering blows (notice how his costume is torn)

Even HUMANS can bypass Superman's durability (e.g. Equus)

THUS, CLEARLY less than Small planet shattering punches cause Superman to bleed and can wear down his overall durability making him susceptible to larger finishing move attacks.

So, to not under power Superman we will place Superman’s minimum durability resitance as against punches equivalent to his own.

As seen by Supergirl and Wonder Woman

(just below his level of punches can be effective).

And as seen by Doomsday

quantity can bypass absorption rate.

Even when Superman was outfitted with armor

Ultimately the battle given these features would become a battle of attrition with who could outlast who.

In the manga and Anime and especially GT Goku could easily withstand Supermans regular punches at even in base form

And Supeman’s “small planet shattering punches” could also be withstood at SS2 based on the ease with which the murderous Vegeta could not break Goku’s durability while his guard was up. And even in the manga Goku has a level even further beyond (SS3).

Superman begins having his blood drawn from punches just on par with his, which are far less than Goku is capable of at SS2.

Even in the manga Goku has a level even further beyond (SS3) making Goku's punches 4 times stronger than they already were.

So if Superman could somehow increase his force without use of momentum (which seems unlikely as he does not increase his force like Goku with ki) then Superman would fair better.

But, Superman has never been shown to be able to increase the force of his peak small planet shattering power without getting some momentum going over time.

Which makes sense because his arm cannot keeping going. Its limit is its length attached to his shoulder. So unlike Goku who just exerts more ki, for Superman to increase his output Superman’s whole body needs to be moving.

Goku could substantially lower Superman’s durability and then kill him in a one shot blast.

And when Superman’s low on his solar energy he is susceptible to being harmed like any other human:

Superman: Last Stand of New Krypton: Superman impaled by pieces of Brainiac's ship as a result of the explosion, he lives

Provided of course that Goku did not tire out first

So would he tire out before he could use a finishing move?

DECISION:

If we look at the movies and/or GT Goku has the ability to perform the Super Dragon Fist.

Defending

Standing Still, or

Rushing

Even when low on energy

Notably Goku does not even need time to focus his energy and can let it fire instantaneously without a moment’s notice.

Being quicker that Superman in an instant he would be able to land the blow, which he can even perform in base form.

If Superman were even able to increase all of his fighting powers instantly (which time and again he has shown he cannot, that he needs time albeit a low amount of time but more time than Goku’s instantaneousness) this would still drain Superman’s solar energy reserves.

The drain on him would only make Superman more vulnerable as it would deplete his durability reserves and make him more susceptible to a Super Dragon Fist .

So then end the end it comes down to would a Super Dragon Fist be able to bypass Superman’s durability before Goku tired out?

Yes because of Superman’s susceptibility to blows which are equal to his own and less than Goku’s capacity

Manga Goku based on what is quantifiable would likely tire out before he could kill Superman.

Mainly because of the ridiculous amount of power Goku expends maintaining the heightened SS3 form which is the one with the highest punching capacity and therefore form Goku would likely use.

Superman would outlast Goku in that form and with out a move more penetrating finsihing move than the Kamehameha Goku would likely tire out and lose.

ALTHOUGH THERE IS AN ARGUMENT THAT MANGA GOKU HAS SUPER DRAGON FIST AND COULD WIN BASED ON THIS:

Non Manga Canon Goku

the one based on the manga and/or anime, movies and GT...the one Death Battle was using...

is the clear victor.

Goku would be able to significantly decrease Superman’s durability and pierce him with the Super Dragon fist.

DEATH BATTLE RELIED ON PLATITUDES RATHER THAN ACTUAL NUMBERS FOR ITS CONCLUSION.

I hope you have enjoyed an actual analysis of Superman versus Goku rather than a cop out because it was difficult to quantify the abilities of Goku and compare them to Superman.

PLATITUDES ANALYSIS

SO we have already established that Death Battle's Numbers were wrong...

BUT according to Ben that does not really matter what matters was the logic behind the outcome.

Death Battle's Logic:

http://youtu.be/oyl97TG8jbA?t=31m21s “The difference is at the core of their character, Goku has never been invincible, he has very clear limits and must overcome those limits to solve the problems at hand. That’s the whole point…After accepting his alien side Superman has reached his full potential which under the power of the yellow sun is essentially limitless. In short Superman is as Strong as he needs to be. So what happens when you pit a man able to break any limit against a man who has no limits in the first place? Well only one has limits to give it all.

Death Battle was supposed to analyze Goku versus Superman, not their respective plot devices. Regardless, the determinative factor for Superman's victory was that when Goku overcomes his obstacles he does so with difficulty, whereas Superman can do so with ease :

“Whenever Goku did these kinds of things it was really really hard on him and like that was clearly his limit at the time that was kind of the deciding factor “ ~Ben "Wiz" Singer (Creator of Death Battle) 56:53 http://youtu.be/ns6POKq2XzY?t=56m53s

3 things are wrong with this rationale:

1. First, "Goku must overcome those limits to solve the problems at hand. That's the whole point"

That is only partially true.

Also at Goku's core is that he is a man with limitless potential one whose whole character is built on the notion that hard work and determination will always overcome any obstacle. That is really the whole point.

Ben even says Goku "can break any limit" and did not consider what that actually means.

To have limitless potential means if Superman has reached his full potential then Goku could still reach a higher level, becuase Goku's potential is limitless.

Further at the heart of Goku is his ability to overcome natural talent. Entrisic to him is the idea that hard work overcomes entitlement. That's kind of the point of his Eastern Cultural herritage and why Vegeta became outclassed.

2. Second at his core "Superman...is essentially limitless"

That is also somewhat of a fallacy. Superman has the potential to accomplish limitless feats if he is in the presence of the yellow sun and given enough time because he is not instantly limitless.

Otherwise Superman would never be worn down in a battle, need to sundip, etc​

He would essentially already be Superman Prime.

In some ways his body actually limits him; such as being peaked at small planet shattering punches because he cannot continue to exert energy upon full arm extension (like Goku with ki). Unlike accelerating to infinity where he can keep thrusting his whole body forward, his arm is attached at his shoulder so that is the limit of the force he can exert without moving the rest of his body.

3. Third, the numbers do matter because not only do they yield a diffierent result when analyzed correctly, but also by discounting what obstacles Superman overcomes and how Goku's abilities progressed Death Battle cheapens the characters and degrades their uniqueness.

SO if we rely on platitudes then the version of Goku that Death Battle used (not soleley Manga canon) still wins even if we only looked at the core of each of these characters

Some Examples:

"So what happens when you have a man capable of limitless feats and one who has limitless potential, well only one of them can access their potential in an instant and go even further beyond. The winner is Goku"

~OR~

"So what happens when you have a man who has reached his full potential and one whose potential is limitless. Well only one of them can go even further beyond. The winner is Goku."

However, we should rely on what the characters said and quantifiably did, and not their respective plot devices. Afterall is this Death Battle or Comic Book of the Month Club!?

Editor's Notes

Editor's Note

"Dragonball Z and GT Absurdity"

This Portion of the Blog Discusses a few feats from the Manga and GT that if taken at face value and not disregarded in favor of only the truly low ended and quantifiable would change the closeness of this outcome.

Cell’s “Solar System Busting Kamehameha”

Cell Claims he has enough Ki to destroy the entire Solar System in this Blast

Gohan has more energy and not only repels it and cancels out Cell’s but also kills Cell! Meaning that Blast would have needed to be more powerful than one that would wipe out our solar system:

SS2 Goku at Buu is more powerful than SS2 Gohan against Cell…

Meaning Goku has enough power to wipe out the solar system in a single blast at SS2! And is 4 x more powerful at SS3!

Notably the Solar System Busting Power is confirmed in a Super Perfect Guide that was released before the Buu Saga:

Translation: "Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form)An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

Editor's Note: Before it was known as Super Saiyan 2 it was called Super Saiyan grade 5 (Super Vegeta was grade 2, Super trunks was Grade 3, Goku able to maintain Super Saiyan 1 with ease and no power consumption was grade 4 and Super Saiyan grade 5 is and Ascended Super Saiyan or as of the Buu Saga "Super Saiyan 2"

Goku’s transcendent power:

Goku has so much Ki energy that it not only shakes Earth but can be felt throughout all of existence! Literally his power transcends this mortal realm and can be felt in Heaven and Hell:

On Earth Goku could not even sense Gohan in the Heavenly Realm …but they all sensed Goku! His power would necessarily have to be so intense that it drowned out the other power levels in the universe to be sensed in the heavenly realm.

Meaning Goku’s Super Dragon Fist exerts that much ki in a single shot ie 4x10^69J!

Light Speed

Although this point was not factored into the analysis, it is worth mentioning.

As we have seen Superman's acceleration is indeed lower than Goku's by at the very least the Boo arc. This makes sense because Superman’s powers come from our physical realm and he specifically according to the JLA and himself must try to exceed the speed of light, ie he exerts effort to break through our physical plains and barriers and is therefore constricted by them because of things like his fists going into flux (or really entire mass) as he approaches light speed and must therefore must stay just under:

And unlike Barry Allen and Wally West, etc. Superman's mass goes into flux (unlike Speedsters) when he does exceed said speeds because his powers come from the sun and are therefore again constrained to our physical realm.

This is different from Goku who is not limited by the physical realm and therefore mass going into flux is never an issue, or his skin burning off when going too fast or in and out of Earth's atmosphere (see power poll in Dragon ball and Battle of Gods, etc.).

Rather Goku's only limit is his Ki, his own metaphysical and spiritual powers and how far he has pushed himself. By not being constrained to our physical plain Goku, like Barry Allen, is able to exceed light speed without his mass going into flux (ie becuase Barry Allen's power's come from the speed force which is spiritual in nature and not connected to our physical plain).

Now, one caveat to the above statement is this: Goku does have physical limitations, but those are overcome through training and as Toriyama has stated there is a physical limit which can be transcended through ki:

Q/A with Author Akira Toriyama "Q: What are the requirements for becoming strong?" "A: There are physical limits to the strength of the body itself, so in order to overcome that barrier, it’s necessary to increase your “ki”. Normally, the more you increase your ki, the harder it is to control, so ki control is also important”. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/chozenshu-1-we-asked-akira-toriyama-2013/

Thus, although the speed force is not ki its ability to break physical barriers as stated above translates well to discussing how Ki would be able to be manipulated in a DC verse, and similarly in one of these debates explains how Goku is able to transcend space and time between heaven and hell when alive and dead via Instant Transmission. It really is just that simple.

Based on Death battle's parameteres: Spirtitual Energy of Goku (ki) as of the boo arc is not less than Superman's physical powers which come from the yellow sun...but give Superman a 15,000year power up and well then probably no amount of physical and ki training of Goku's can beat that kind of power!

It shows the Dragonballs restored as Goku’s great great Grandson searches for them to heal his 107 years old grandmother: Pan.

Goku never “absorped” and kept the power of the Dragonballs.

Rather, and they make this explicit at the end of GT:

the Dragonballs and Goku are going away for a while, for Goku to watch over them until the Earth his ready for them again.

The Dragonballs were abused by Earth which almost caused the destruction of the universe and so Goku went with Shenron to the heavenly realm to watch over them.

The Dragonballs were to be an ideal of power to behold and never to be used.

The restoration of the balls to Earth and of Goku being on Earth as an adult at the end shows that at the very least Goku relinquished his "dragonball magical powers" if that is what one wishes to believe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CgwpecWlWc

Point:

Although Future GT Goku (which is just grown up Goku from GT in his adult body in base form) is the protector of the universe and Dragonballs he would be annihilated by Superman Prime.

Other Point:

If Death Battle really did “look at everything” how come they ALSO made that GLARING MISTAKE?

Editor's Farewell!

Hey fans, thanks for reading!

This debate is seriously ludicrous, we all need to move on! It took me a while to let go of how badly Screw Attack disrespected the image of Goku, but seriously we all need to move on. Superman and Goku are both awesome! I'm gonna take a page out of Goku's book and move on to bigger and better things!

Hope you all who are either angry at Screw Attack for quantifying Goku incorrectly as a total push over or angry at me for showing their miscalculations can all do the same! Let's all enjoy Death Battle and move on.

Besides if Superman really did kill Goku the Namekians would have wished him back or King Yema would have let him come back. Or Heck Superman may have even figured out a way to bring him back with all of his power...somehow... Either way Goku lives on! It's time all of us did the same and move on.

Thanks again for reading it has been a blast!

» Comments: 1023

g1 Discussions

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This is without a single doubt one of the biggest brainstorming attempts when it came to mass research upon Goku from Dragonball vs Superman from DC Comics. In some cases I even feel that the Death Battle alone was somewhat rushed.

If my speculation of Goku from Dragonball vs Superman from DC Comics being somewhat rushed is actually true than I don't blame Wiz & Boomstick for that, I actually blame the various people that where so impatient over the idea of mass spamming Wiz & Boomstick with various emails saying: Release Goku vs Superman release Goku vs Superman blah blah blah...

In either case, this brainstorming information was just huge, yet I took my moments to read this and thought to myself "What if Goku from Dragonball vs Superman from DC Comics became introduced at a much later date and this whole brainstorming idea actually came to be?" The results alone would be more different save for the fact the episode alone will still be one of the longest Death Battle fights ever known.

I honestly was a diehard Goku supporter going into the DeathBattle, I was certain he would win and was Super pissed off when he lost. But I let the facts speak for themselves, and I now agree with Deathbattle, becasue it actully has an argument that makes sense.

The DeathBattle actully skewed their information in favor of Goku, giving him Non-canon abilities and Transformations, and he stil ldidn't even come close, even if their calcualtion were WAY off, Goku still wouldn't be anywhere near Supermans power-level bases on Supermans feats vs Goku's Feats, for example Goku at his strongest Canon level throwing his strongest punch can damage or Destroy large masses of Rock, no paritcuarrly big ones, but once ranges in size from size of samll vuilding to ones as the size of small mountain. Superman (an a large number of other DC and Marvel comics Character), by comparision, can completly obliterate a planet with a single punch.

At Worse DeathBattles calculations were off by a farily small margin, but are completly reasonable estimates, for Goku to have a chance you have to literally make up your own facts that are not only not supported by anything in canon, but actully are completly ridiculious.

I don't want to belittle the work you did on this, and actully being a huge Dragon ball fan (I don't even like Superman), I think it's time that Goku fans accept what I have, that Superman fa outclasses Goku.

I also know their is a rumor of Bias on DeathBattle, but I really feel claiming bias is this last resort for people unhappy with the decesion that can't complety defend their own points with facts that can't truly be refutted.

See where Kakarott88 was going with this, but got a lot of his points wrong - for example, New Genesis and Apokolips are massively bigger than Jupiter, because New Gods in their natural and unaltered size are able to hold Earth-sized Planets in their hands.

Another issue is Superman's speed - Superman is able to fight just as fast as he can travel because nothing says otherwise, and it makes sense that he can percieve, react and move at those kinds of speeds. How else would he navigate Space, or avoid hazards?

Frankly speaking, if we consider the character's core the more logical and fair verdict for both would be a draw, both characters have been made to overpower the opponent (even if in a different way), consider a true winner using this method would be in contradiction with the other character core and viceversa (Supes be permanently defeated or Goku did not overcome his opponent), simply this is a infinite loop.

do you not see the irony in posting "get over it" and then going over how "pointless" his arguments are? clearly you can not demand someone to "get over it" when its clear you are not over it yourself.

but lets examine the plot and story of goku. goku's plot is all about a man who works hard defeating the strong. he is about the runt of the litter taking down those who are deemed invincible or unstoppable. from an emperor given everything from birth such that he want to take even magic itself, to a general who has already conquered most of the world and simply needs to be taller, to gods demon brother, to his genetically superior brother, to the natural born prince of his race born to be the very strongest of his race, to the emporer of the galazy born with all his strength and the right to rule, to a genetically perfect version of his race as well of the races of all the creatures living on earth, to pure energy, to finally destruction itself. goku's story is about a man who works hard defeating those who did not work as hard for their gifts and was instead born with them, at his core he is about defeating those who believe themselves to be invincible and constantly proclaim so. those who know very little of techniques and martial arts yet claim to be experts as seen with their lack of martial arts use, or the fact that they use it extremely sparingly.... does this description sound familiar? goku at his core is about defeating superman.

As Kakarot88 had already said before, you cannot use the character's core to determine the winner.
"Death Battle was supposed to analyze Goku vs Superman, not their respective plot devices."
Because it's the most wrong and ignorant that you can use, the victory should be based on skills and ability, not for this factor.

"So what happens when you pit a man able to break any limit against a man who has no limits in the first place? Well only one has limits to give at all.”
If Superman hadn't really limits, why exist there kryptonite and why there are people like Darkseid or Doomsday able to defeat it, because the writers are not so stupid as to allow that Superman remain really invincible (even Pre Crisis version is not really unlimited), he can increase indefinitely its powers only if it is within a star, otherwise will always have limitations.
Moreover, if Goku is able to break all limits, should he also be without limits? It has unlimited potential, if Goku needs to defeat his opponent and overcome it power, he always finds a way in the end.

Or OR! or! get over it! People think way to hard on this. It's pointless arguments. Even if you want Goku to win, he can't. It's now his Universe works and its now how Supermans work. Goku has Limits, Superman has none. Thats all the explanation that is needed.

"Superman's durability Scaling with a scene where he was faking being unconscious."
This does not change the facts that Superman was KO at these scenes.

"First off, he contradicts himself. He says canon manga only, then he says GT is in. GT has nothing to do with the manga. He also says anime is filler. By definition has no filler manga anime backing. This guy is clearly an idiot. "
Wrong, the blog has used Goku that the Death Battle was supposed to use, meaning manga + anime + movies + GT.

“He says Superman can survive in space, but not go on forever. This is false, Superman has no need for air or food and water, he can exist in space indefinitely. Yes he posts a scan with Superman and Green Lantern, but it's taken out of context. To speak, you need air. For Superman to talk to GL he needs air around his mouth to create sound waves. It's not life support, it's communication.”
Superman can survive in space, but he has always depended on the amount of solar energy absorbed. No solar energy = no superpowers = superman cannot survive in space.

“He says Goku can survive in space for long periods of time. This is wrong, Goku still needs air. He can survive being in space, but he still needs to breathe. He can live in space for only as long as he can hold his breath.”
Rightly Goku can't breathe in space, but can survive in space for an extended period of time, in the new film "Battle of Gods" fight and talk in outer space, the real question is how much can survive without air.

“He claims the solar flare would distract Superman, but that is wrong. Superman's corneas are far to durable to be affected by mere bright light. Superman does not become more vulnerable when using heat vision.”
He never said anything like that, he said the exact opposite.

“Using Wonder Woman as an example is silly, as she's only slightly less powerful than superman, thus she's far more powerful than anyone in DBZ.”
You have evidence to demonstrate that Wonder Woman could bring down the entire DBZverse? Even when in that universe there are people like Broly which has destroy an entire galaxy, Omega Shenron who could corrupt and destroy the entire universe in seconds or Janemba a reality warper to universal scale. It also doesn't change the fact that Wonder Woman it less powerful than Superman is however managed to damage the Man of Steel and this is just one of many examples.

“He claims Goku withstanding lightning means he can withstand solar-level heat. Well, normal people have been hit by lightning and they weren't burned to a crisp, so obviously the heat is not a huge factor in how lightning can kill you. Also, people survive lightning strikes all the time. Something that's not universally lethal to humans is nowhere near Superman's league, it would have to be something like a nuke for him to even feel it.”
He never used this example, as feats he used the battle with Nova Shenron and did not take into account the battle against Frieza and did not mention the Furnace of Eight Divisions, from DB.

“He says Goku's ki can blow up planets. No shit, they gave Gku enough ki output to blow up the Earth ten times over in this video. It's still not enough. So he's right about Goku but wrong about the video, so we'll call that half wrong.”
He wanted to make a complete re-analysis, redoing every single calculation.

“He talks about ki sense, which is stupid. Superman's body has no ki, so that entire section is wrong and Goku wouldn't be able to read Superman's overall power level.”
Virtually every living being has KI, even Superman, and anyway the blog never said anything like that, said instead "Goku would not have the typical advantage he has over ki users and not those who typically rely on their other senses like eyes and hearing". And don't try to use the excuse that Superman comes from a "different universe with different laws"

“He thinks instant transmission, travel speed, makes Goku's punches faster. This is wrong, and IT would be useless as there is no one else in a Death Battle, no other ki to sense. In this fight, IT is a completely useless ability.”
Never said, the IT allows instantaneous shifts and even instant attacks (both during the Cell and Kid Buu), Goku also showed that can recognize the KI individuals like Bulma or Gohan.

“After-image fools sight, Superman would not be fooled by it. He has x-ray vision, and an after-image has no organs, he'd instantly detect the ruse so that's another useless ability.”
Of course, but doesn't mean it will not work the first time or that Superman can react fast enough against this technique every time.

“Emotion reading is useless, Superman can easily resist anything but the most powerful telepaths.”
Emotion reading is not a psychic ability, Goku is trained to predict the attacks and strategies of opponents.

“Then he goes on about power levels, but power levels are vastly inconsistent in DBZ and relying on them has proven to be foolish, even in the show itself. In Death Battle they judged Goku's ki output by what he himself has done, not by comparing him to others. Power level, if it even means anything, gauges strength, speed, durability, energy, etc all together. But power level 1,000 doesn't mean the same thing for two different people, one might be faster, the other stronger, so the numbers themselves hold little concrete value.”
Wrong, the same author has said at the beginning of the blog that would not use the power level in the analysis for the same reasons you've said.

“He says Cell could blow up a solar system, but it never actually happens. He makes a decent claim that it would not have been included if the author didn't mean it, but since it did not happen then this is Toriyama screwing his own characters over, take your complaint to him.”
The blog has never used this feat in the analysis and put then in the absurdity section, but there are not reasons why Cell was lying.
- Had no reason, especially after almost died for nothing (self-destruction).
- the statement was too specific for a hyperbole and not was the usual line "became more powerful".
- This statement is appeared in the original manga, in the anime and confirm all the translations.
- More official guides confirm what he said.
- Have never happened a fact that could deny the veracity of what he said.
And if you Cell was still lying, then why take true the fact that Superman survived the attack by Coldcast, that how he declared "that was like fifteen suns exploding in his face".

“His ABC logic is irrelevant, Goku's training and abilities are unique to him. He's more powerful than many other characters, but he does not have their abilities. He can't breathe in space like Freiza, he doesn't have that body switching trick, and he can't stop time by holding his breath. That entire premise of his is wrong.”
The ABC logic is necessary especially for the shonen, where the characters grow in power continuously, the DBZ characters always use the same type of power (KI) but this logic only affects the physical capacity (speed, durability, strength), not the abilities.
For example, if a character is more powerful than another, and if the latter has destroyed a planet, then the previous one more do the same feat or even more.
Because otherwise use your logic Freezer would be more powerful than Cell or Vegito.
“The scans he posted of Goku taking a nuke are again interpreted wrong. It does not take a nuclear blast to create a mushroom cloud. Goku is tough, but his pants are not. A real nuke would have blasted him naked. Maybe not the author's intent, but again, screwing over his own characters.”
Goku has never taking a real nuke, but taking a blast at the same level, or even higher if we consider that the characters can control the radius of the explosion (or as Muten destroyed the Moon).
Though the clothes weren't really damaged, the city and the rest of the island have been completely wiped out.

“He claims the weight in the scan is inaccurate, but it's really not. If Dragon ball says he's X strong as a child, but Y strong as an adult, again, screwed by his own writers, go complain to them. 40 tons is the limit of his base form.”
Too bad as a child Goku has moved a rock heavy at least 100 tons, or do we have to talk about when he launched a Piccolo bigger than a sauropod.
And these are just lowest feats from DB.

“He says using pressure points would not work on Goku, as he does not have human biology. That is correct. I guess it's a good thing in the video that Superman said it wasn't working until he used X-Ray and microscopic vision to find them anyway, so he's an idiot who doesn't pay attention here.”
Maybe, but Goku can resist and fight against this kind of fighting style, is a fighting genius and a martial arts expert.

“Then there's some crap about martial arts, blah blah, doesn't matter, Goku is to slow to land a hit anyway. And he ignores how many styles Superman actually knows, nice selective memory. Or just stupidity, either way.”
Goku fights always superhuman speed since he was a child, and Goku has traveled all over the world training and fighting against any fighter, gaining each combat style. And after still continued to improve his fighting style.

“He claims Goku can fly faster than light. Yup. They said this in the video. Superman is still faster. He says Goku is fast enough to become invisible. Well, you don't even need to be supersonic to do that, so he's just an idiot.”
Besides the fact that the Snake Way calculations is wrong, but Goku is for a moment faster than Superman, the latter does not have a combat speed fast as his travel speed, as in the case of Wonder Woman or Flash. However, Superman could accelerate up to exceed the speed of Goku.

“He claims the special beam cannon is as fast as light. This is wrong, thus everything that comes after this is wrong.”
Never said this, said that most of the time the KI attacks travel near the speed of light.

“Then he actually tries to claim instant transmission is combat speed. This is so wrong and stupid it hurt to read it.”
Never said this, ge has never counted the IT with the combat speed.

gazzas89, you clearly did not read the blog. first sentence just about: "Power Levels are NOT used for 3 main reasons, but there are a host of rationales:

They are irrelevant and I am basing this solely on quantifiable feats and what Toriyama said in interviews. There is no definitive basis as to what the power level is, what over 9,000 is equal to is only by comparison of Dragon Ball universe characters and so has no basis for comparing Goku to another character Power Level is NOT reflective of ability. For instance, Jeice is more powerful that Burter but is slower. Vegeta trains and increases his "power level" in over 100x Earth's normal gravity but we do not know if he developed a similar mind reading ability like Goku did. Frieza's power level is over 1,000,000 in form 2 and Piccolo's was under 9,000 when he fought the Siayans and died but after fusing with Nail he fights evenly with Freiza?! The list goes on... "

he also makes no lighting durability comparisons

and addresses supaman's PSI

he only used GT bc the blog is "Death Battle Erred" not "What Death Battle should have done"

- Scaling Superman's durability with a scene where he was faking being unconscious.

- Disregard for technique, biology, and training when Power Scaling in general.

- Massively under scaling Wonder Woman's durability and resistance to heat, and then Power Scaling off of her -courtesy of tyler smith

Want more?

First off, he contradicts himself. He says canon manga only, then he says GT is in. GT has nothing to do with the manga. He also says anime filler is in. By definition, anime filler has no manga backing. This guy is clearly an idiot.

He says Superman can survive in space, but not go on forever. This is false, Superman has no need for air or food and water, he can exist in space indefinitely. Yes he posts a scan with Superman and Green Lantern, but it's taken out of context. To speak, you need air. For Superman to talk to GL, he needs air around his mouth to create sound waves. It's not life support, it's communication.

He says Goku can survive in space for long periods of time. This is wrong, Goku still needs air. He can survive being in space, but he still needs to breathe. He can live in space for only as long as he can hold his breath.

He claims the solar flare would distract Superman, but that is wrong. Superman's corneas are far to durable to be affected by mere bright light. Superman does not become more vulnerable when using heat vision. Using Wonder Woman as an example is silly, as she's only slightly less powerful than superman, thus she's far more powerful than anyone in DBZ.

He claims Goku withstanding lightning, means he can withstand solar-level heat. Well, normal people have been hit by lightning and they weren't burned to a crisp, so obviously the heat is not a huge factor in how Lightning can kill you. Also, people survive Lightning strikes all the time. Something that's not universally lethal to humans is nowhere near Superman's league, it would have to be something like a nuke for him to even feel it.

He says Goku's ki can blow up planets. No shit, Screwattack gave Goku enough Ki Output to blow up the Earth twelve times over in the video. It's still not enough. So, he's right about Goku but, wrong about the video, so we'll call that half wrong.

He talks about Ki Sense, which is stupid. Superman's body has no Chi/Ki, as stated specifically within the comics, so that entire section is wrong.

He thinks that Instant Transmission is travel speed and makes Goku's punches faster. This is wrong, and IT would be useless as there is no one else in a Death Battle, no other Ki to sense. In this fight, IT is a completely useless ability.

After-image fools sight, Superman would not be fooled by it. He has x-ray vision, and an after-image has no organs, he'd instantly detect the ruse so that's another useless ability.

Emotion reading is useless, Superman can easily resist anything but the most powerful telepaths.

Telekinesis is a great power, but unless Goku has thrown planets around with it, it means nothing.

Then he goes on about Power Levels, but Power Levels are vastly inconsistent in DBZ and relying on them has proven to be foolish, even in the show itself. In Death Battle, they judged Goku's Ki output by what he himself has done, not by comparing him to others. Power level, if it even means anything, gauges strength, speed, durability, energy, etc all together. But Power Level 1,000 doesn't mean the same thing for two different people, one might be faster, the other stronger, so the numbers themselves hold little concrete value.

He says Cell could blow up a Solar System, but it never actually happens. He makes a decent claim that it would not have been included if the author didn't mean it, but since it did not happen, then this is Toriyama screwing his own characters over, take your complaint to him.

His ABC logic is irrelevant, Goku's training and abilities are unique to him. He's more powerful than many other characters, but he does not have their abilities. He can't breathe in space like Freiza, he doesn't have that body switching trick, and he can't stop time by holding his breath. That entire premise of his is wrong.

The scans he posted of Goku taking a Nuke are again interpreted wrong. It does not take a nuclear blast to create a mushroom cloud. Goku is tough, but his pants are not. A real Nuke would have blasted him naked. Maybe not the author's intent, but again, screwing over his own characters.

He claims the weight in the scan is inaccurate, but it's really not. If Dragon ball says he's X strong as a child, but Y strong as an adult, again, screwed by his own writers, go complain to them. 40 tons is the limit of his base form.

He says using pressure points would not work on Goku, as he does not have human biology. That is correct. I guess it's a good thing in the video that Superman said it wasn't working until he used X-Ray and microscopic vision to find them anyway, so he's an idiot who doesn't pay attention here.

Then there's some crap about martial arts, blah blah, doesn't matter, Goku is to slow to land a hit anyway. And he ignores how many styles Superman actually knows, nice selective memory. Or just stupidity, either way. Next.

He claims Goku can fly faster than light. Yup. They said this in the video. Superman is still faster. He says Goku is fast enough to become invisible. Well, you don't even need to be supersonic to do that, so he's just an idiot.

He claims the Special Beam Cannon is as fast as light. This is wrong, as it relies on a mistranslation of the actual Manga, and everything that comes after this is thus wrong.

Then he actually tries to claim Instant Transmission is Combat Speed, and that is so wrong, and stupid that it actually hurt to read it. Force = Mass x Acceleration, and Instant Transmission doesn't involve Acceleration at all: it's teleportation, where Goku goes from Point A to Point B without ever traversing the space between, but Combat Speed relies on that space in order to induce acceleration. If Goku uses Instant Transmission that way, then all his punches have is Mass, which just slices their effectiveness in half.﻿

he made up the time for the namek feat, claiming it took 1 second when there was no time given and says its the other side of the planet based on the english v-jump cover, but completely ignores the manga itself when goku says "good theyre not that far" which nobody would say about the other side of the planet and the fact that dendes body in relation to vegetas body adn the dragon disproved that it was the other side of the planet, hell 1/8th would be a massive overstatement

he claims that superman is slow to get to speed but ignores the fact that superman was flying through populated areas and refuses to go faster than mach 15 there incase he causes more deaths from flying (like what happened in the matrix reloaded)﻿

- Scaling Superman's durability with a scene where he was faking being unconscious.

- Disregard for technique, biology, and training when Power Scaling in general.

- Massively under scaling Wonder Woman's durability and resistance to heat, and then Power Scaling off of her -courtesy of tyler smith

Want more?

First off, he contradicts himself. He says canon manga only, then he says GT is in. GT has nothing to do with the manga. He also says anime filler is in. By definition, anime filler has no manga backing. This guy is clearly an idiot.

He says Superman can survive in space, but not go on forever. This is false, Superman has no need for air or food and water, he can exist in space indefinitely. Yes he posts a scan with Superman and Green Lantern, but it's taken out of context. To speak, you need air. For Superman to talk to GL, he needs air around his mouth to create sound waves. It's not life support, it's communication.

He says Goku can survive in space for long periods of time. This is wrong, Goku still needs air. He can survive being in space, but he still needs to breathe. He can live in space for only as long as he can hold his breath.

He claims the solar flare would distract Superman, but that is wrong. Superman's corneas are far to durable to be affected by mere bright light. Superman does not become more vulnerable when using heat vision. Using Wonder Woman as an example is silly, as she's only slightly less powerful than superman, thus she's far more powerful than anyone in DBZ.

He claims Goku withstanding lightning, means he can withstand solar-level heat. Well, normal people have been hit by lightning and they weren't burned to a crisp, so obviously the heat is not a huge factor in how Lightning can kill you. Also, people survive Lightning strikes all the time. Something that's not universally lethal to humans is nowhere near Superman's league, it would have to be something like a nuke for him to even feel it.

He says Goku's ki can blow up planets. No shit, Screwattack gave Goku enough Ki Output to blow up the Earth twelve times over in the video. It's still not enough. So, he's right about Goku but, wrong about the video, so we'll call that half wrong.

He talks about Ki Sense, which is stupid. Superman's body has no Chi/Ki, as stated specifically within the comics, so that entire section is wrong.

He thinks that Instant Transmission is travel speed and makes Goku's punches faster. This is wrong, and IT would be useless as there is no one else in a Death Battle, no other Ki to sense. In this fight, IT is a completely useless ability.

After-image fools sight, Superman would not be fooled by it. He has x-ray vision, and an after-image has no organs, he'd instantly detect the ruse so that's another useless ability.

Emotion reading is useless, Superman can easily resist anything but the most powerful telepaths.

Telekinesis is a great power, but unless Goku has thrown planets around with it, it means nothing.

Then he goes on about Power Levels, but Power Levels are vastly inconsistent in DBZ and relying on them has proven to be foolish, even in the show itself. In Death Battle, they judged Goku's Ki output by what he himself has done, not by comparing him to others. Power level, if it even means anything, gauges strength, speed, durability, energy, etc all together. But Power Level 1,000 doesn't mean the same thing for two different people, one might be faster, the other stronger, so the numbers themselves hold little concrete value.

He says Cell could blow up a Solar System, but it never actually happens. He makes a decent claim that it would not have been included if the author didn't mean it, but since it did not happen, then this is Toriyama screwing his own characters over, take your complaint to him.

His ABC logic is irrelevant, Goku's training and abilities are unique to him. He's more powerful than many other characters, but he does not have their abilities. He can't breathe in space like Freiza, he doesn't have that body switching trick, and he can't stop time by holding his breath. That entire premise of his is wrong.

The scans he posted of Goku taking a Nuke are again interpreted wrong. It does not take a nuclear blast to create a mushroom cloud. Goku is tough, but his pants are not. A real Nuke would have blasted him naked. Maybe not the author's intent, but again, screwing over his own characters.

He claims the weight in the scan is inaccurate, but it's really not. If Dragon ball says he's X strong as a child, but Y strong as an adult, again, screwed by his own writers, go complain to them. 40 tons is the limit of his base form.

He says using pressure points would not work on Goku, as he does not have human biology. That is correct. I guess it's a good thing in the video that Superman said it wasn't working until he used X-Ray and microscopic vision to find them anyway, so he's an idiot who doesn't pay attention here.

Then there's some crap about martial arts, blah blah, doesn't matter, Goku is to slow to land a hit anyway. And he ignores how many styles Superman actually knows, nice selective memory. Or just stupidity, either way. Next.

He claims Goku can fly faster than light. Yup. They said this in the video. Superman is still faster. He says Goku is fast enough to become invisible. Well, you don't even need to be supersonic to do that, so he's just an idiot.

He claims the Special Beam Cannon is as fast as light. This is wrong, as it relies on a mistranslation of the actual Manga, and everything that comes after this is thus wrong.

Then he actually tries to claim Instant Transmission is Combat Speed, and that is so wrong, and stupid that it actually hurt to read it. Force = Mass x Acceleration, and Instant Transmission doesn't involve Acceleration at all: it's teleportation, where Goku goes from Point A to Point B without ever traversing the space between, but Combat Speed relies on that space in order to induce acceleration. If Goku uses Instant Transmission that way, then all his punches have is Mass, which just slices their effectiveness in half.﻿

he made up the time for the namek feat, claiming it took 1 second when there was no time given and says its the other side of the planet based on the english v-jump cover, but completely ignores the manga itself when goku says "good theyre not that far" which nobody would say about the other side of the planet and the fact that dendes body in relation to vegetas body adn the dragon disproved that it was the other side of the planet, hell 1/8th would be a massive overstatement

he claims that superman is slow to get to speed but ignores the fact that superman was flying through populated areas and refuses to go faster than mach 15 there incase he causes more deaths from flying (like what happened in the matrix reloaded)﻿