Posted Fri May 17, 2013, 8:03am Subject: high or low volume shots for milk based drinks

In making a typical latte, what is the general consensus on shot volume to get good flavor to stand up to the milk? I realize there are a lot of variables in play here, but curious if there is a rule of thumb of pulling a more concentrated syrupy ristretto or an updosed higher volume shot for a typical latte.

My shots by themselves taste good to me, drawing about 1.75 ounces in 29 seconds from 17.3grams. The beans are fresh from a local roaster and I've had shots and lattes at the roaster's location to taste how they think it should come out and liked them. My concern comes from making milk drinks at home. When I make (what I think is) a typical latte using ~5oz of 2% milk and steaming to 145-150*, I sometimes find I wish the coffee took a more predominant role in the taste of the drink. I know the easy fix would be to just use less milk, but where I'm perplexed is how cafes can make the super large 16-20oz lattes using a double shot and still not loose the flavor of the coffee in all that milk.

I've noticed at quite a few places that the shots they pull straight vs shots for milk are different. Meaning I've seen places dose more and extract longer for milk drinks. One by me has one grinder for straight shots, then another adjusted for larger dose shots for milk drinks to help punch through milk. Even some well known places people have said on here and HB to overextract their milk drink shots to bring that stronger taste out through milk.

If the coffee beans you buy are quite oily/greasy, it typically means that they're over-roasted.

It also means that the only thing you can really use them for is in conventional lattes or cappuccinos, otherwisethe taste is really too bold. You can't drink straight shots with beans like that because it's just unbearable. (Well,at least IMHO.)

I agree with CMN, a deliberate over-extraction will help allow the beans to punch through the milk, with the understandingthat it can also dramatically change the coffee flavor going into the drink.

Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.

I pull straight shots using Redbird and it comes through in the milk just fine. Have tried some other blends from local roasters and found that the bean makes or breaks the latte. Higher acidiity, fruity espresso seems to disappear in the milk, whille nutty chocolate taste profiles punch through. Ristretto pulls, updosing to 20g. or more in a triple, combined with the nutty chocolate blends are the bomb!

Thanks for the input. I buy fresh, locally roasted beans that are not overly dark or oily, as I do want something that is enjoyable to drink straight shots of too. I will try updosing and maybe grinding a little finer to get it a more ristretto and over extracted pull to kick it up a notch.

I pull my shots the same regardless. If the milk is overpowering the espresso, then perhaps less milk would be in order. Otherwise, I'd use a different bean/blend. Of course, you're welcome to prepare your drinks however you see fit.

.Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!

Thanks for the input! I tried grinding finer and updosing to get a more concentrated extraction, and it seems to have helped some. In the future, I'll also try experimenting with different beans for lattes.

I think besides the direct application to my drinks, I am more baffled as to how any coffee flavors can be picked up in the 16-20+ oz milk drinks often served in the US. It sounds like you guys are attributing that to the super oily charred beans they often use for these drinks, which probably doesn't matter because a place like starbucks is rarely if ever serving straight shots.

Many of the artisan roasters include a comment in their descriptions of beans/blends that they perform well with milk, if it happens to be true. I personally have not really like many single origin beans in milk drinks, and though I love Yirg, I have to say, I've only used it in a press pot. The flavor there is fantastic and intricate, but to me, it seems like many of the things I perceive are subtle...so I've never thought to put it in milk.

At risk of sounding pretentious or snobby...I personally find that no matter what is added to the charred, ash flavored espresso made by a very, very popular international coffee chain, it is undrinkable. I didn't feel that way several years ago, but the last few times I tried a caramel macchiato or mocha from the evil mermaid, it ended up in the garbage after only a few sips. As you can imagine, I no longer am willing to enter one of their establishments. This is where my earlier comments about using a "normal" shot come from. Why would anyone knowingly use a sink shot to make a drink they want to enjoy? It simply doesn't make any sense to me at all. So, again...yeah, a bit redundant...I use "normal" shots to make my milk based drinks, and adjust the proportions accordingly. If I want a bigger drink, it gets an additional shot and more milk...but hey, that's me...as Wayne (calblacksmith) says...YMMV!

.Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!

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