Paul Haggis

The Paul Haggis news has gone viral. A few U.S. news links that have picked it up and commented on the matter are given below. I have posted the entire letter below the links for easy reference in once place. Paul Haggis is no joke.

I received a copy of a letter sent to Tommy Davis written by a rather influential person. The source who provided this was a third party recipient of the letter and was able to establish to my satisfaction that the letter is authentic . I have decided to publish portions over several days so that the import of the issues it covers are fully aired and considered by readers. The source and I hope that the author of the letter will understand that by publishing the letter we mean no disrespect. Quite the contrary, it is our level of respect for the author’s life work and integrity that makes us confident many people will benefit from the author’s example, others will feel vindicated, and great strides will be made in ending the abuses the letter details.

August 19, 2009

Dear ,

Attached find a letter to Tommy Davis. I am sending it to a handful of people, who I feel deserve an explanation. This was a personal decision; I am not seeking anyone’s agreement. Feel free to call or write me once you’ve read it, but do not feel compelled to do so.
My very best,

Tommy,

As you know, for ten months now I have been writing to ask you to make a public statement denouncing the actions of the Church of Scientology of San Diego. Their public sponsorship of Proposition 8, a hate-filled legislation that succeeded in taking away the civil rights of gay and lesbian citizens of California – rights that were granted them by the Supreme Court of our state – shames us.

I called and wrote and implored you, as the official spokesman of the church, to condemn their actions. I told you I could not, in good conscience, be a member of an organization where gay-bashing was tolerated.

In that first conversation, back at the end of October of last year, you told me you were horrified, that you would get to the bottom of it and “heads would roll.” You promised action. Ten months passed. No action was forthcoming. The best you offered was a weak and carefully worded press release, which praised the church’s human rights record and took no responsibility. Even that, you decided not to publish.

The church’s refusal to denounce the actions of these bigots, hypocrites and homophobes is cowardly. I can think of no other word. Silence is consent, Tommy. I refuse to consent.

I joined the Church of Scientology thirty-five years ago. During my twenties and early thirties I studied and received a great deal of counseling. While I have not been an active member for many years, I found much of what I learned to be very helpful, and I still apply it in my daily life. I have never pretended to be the best Scientologist, but I openly and vigorously defended the church whenever it was criticized, as I railed against the kind of intolerance that I believed was directed against it. I had my disagreements, but I dealt with them internally. I saw the organization – with all its warts, growing pains and problems – as an underdog. And I have always had a thing for underdogs.

But I reached a point several weeks ago where I no longer knew what to think. You had allowed our name to be allied with the worst elements of the Christian Right. In order to contain a potential “PR flap” you allowed our sponsorship of Proposition 8 to stand. Despite all the church’s words about promoting freedom and human rights, its name is now in the public record alongside those who promote bigotry and intolerance, homophobia and fear.

The fact that the Mormon Church drew all the fire, that no one noticed, doesn’t matter. I noticed. And I felt sick. I wondered how the church could, in good conscience, through the action of a few and then the inaction of its leadership, support a bill that strips a group of its civil rights.

This was my state of mind when I was online doing research and chanced upon an interview clip with you on CNN. The interview lasted maybe ten minutes – it was just you and the newscaster. And in it I saw you deny the church’s policy of disconnection. You said straight-out there was no such policy, that it did not exist.

I was shocked. We all know this policy exists. I didn’t have to search for verification – I didn’t have to look any further than my own home.

You might recall that my wife was ordered to disconnect from her parents because of something absolutely trivial they supposedly did twenty-five years ago when they resigned from the church. This is a lovely retired couple, never said a negative word about Scientology to me or anyone else I know – hardly raving maniacs or enemies of the church. In fact it was they who introduced my wife to Scientology.

Although it caused her terrible personal pain, my wife broke off all contact with them. I refused to do so. I’ve never been good at following orders, especially when I find them morally reprehensible.

For a year and a half, despite her protestations, my wife did not speak to her parents and they had limited access to their grandchild. It was a terrible time.

That’s not ancient history, Tommy. It was a year ago.

And you could laugh at the question as if it was a joke? You could publicly state that it doesn’t exist?

To see you lie so easily, I am afraid I had to ask myself: what else are you lying about?

And that is when I read the recent articles in the St. Petersburg Times. They left me dumbstruck and horrified.

These were not the claims made by “outsiders” looking to dig up dirt against us. These accusations were made by top international executives who had devoted most of their lives to the church. Say what you will about them now, these were staunch defenders of the church, including Mike Rinder, the church’s official spokesman for 20 years!

Tommy, if only a fraction of these accusations are true, we are talking about serious, indefensible human and civil rights violations. It is still hard for me to believe. But given how many former top-level executives have said these things are true, it is hard to believe it is all lies.

And when I pictured you assuring me that it is all lies, that this is nothing but an unfounded and vicious attack by a group of disgruntled employees, I am afraid that I saw the same face that looked in the camera and denied the policy of disconnection. I heard the same voice that professed outrage at our support of Proposition 8, who promised to correct it, and did nothing.

I carefully read all of your rebuttals, I watched every video where you presented the church’s position, I listened to all your arguments – ever word. I wish I could tell you that they rang true. But they didn’t.

I was left feeling outraged, and frankly, more than a little stupid.

And though it may seem small by comparison, I was truly disturbed to see you provide private details from confessionals to the press in an attempt to embarrass and discredit the executives who spoke out. A priest would go to jail before revealing secrets from the confessional, no matter what the cost to himself or his church. That’s the kind of integrity I thought we had, but obviously the standard in this church is far lower – the public relations representative can reveal secrets to the press if the management feels justified. You even felt free to publish secrets from the confessional in Freedom Magazine – you just stopped short of labeling them as such, probably because you knew Scientologists would be horrified, knowing you so easily broke a sacred vow of trust with your parishioners.

How dare you use private information in order to label someone an “adulteress?” You took Amy Scobee’s most intimate admissions about her sexual life and passed them onto the press and then smeared them all over the pages your newsletter! I do not know the woman, but no matter what she said or did, this is the woman who joined the Sea Org at 16! She ran the entire celebrity center network, and was a loyal senior executive of the church for what, 20 years? You want to rebut her accusations, do it, and do it in the strongest terms possible – but that kind of character assassination is unconscionable.

So, I am now painfully aware that you might see this an attack and just as easily use things I have confessed over the years to smear my name. Well, luckily I have never held myself up to be anyone’s role model.

The great majority of Scientologists I know are good people who are genuinely interested in improving conditions on this planet and helping others. I have to believe that if they knew what I now know, they too would be horrified. But I know how easy it was for me to defend our organization and dismiss our critics, without ever truly looking at what was being said; I did it for thirty-five years. And so, after writing this letter, I am fully aware that some of my friends may choose to no longer associate with me, or in some cases work with me. I will always take their calls, as I always took yours. However, I have finally come to the conclusion that I can no longer be a part of this group. Frankly, I had to look no further than your refusal to denounce the church’s anti-gay stance, and the indefensible actions, and inactions, of those who condone this behavior within the organization. I am only ashamed that I waited this many months to act. I hereby resign my membership in the Church of Scientology.

Sincerely,

Paul Haggis

Ps. I’ve attached our email correspondence. At some point it became evident that you did not value my concerns about the church’s tacit support of an amendment that violated the civil rights of so many of our citizens. Perhaps if you had done a little more research on me, the church’s senior management wouldn’t have dismissed those concerns quite so cavalierly. While I am no great believer in resumes and awards, this is what you would have discovered:

* Founder, Artists For Peace and Justice,
– sponsoring schools, an orphanage and a children’s hospital in the slums of Haiti
* Co-Founder, BrandAid Foundation and BrandAid Project
– marketing the work of artisans from the poorest countries in the world,
* Board Member, Office of The Americas
– supporting peace and justice initiatives around the world
* Board Member, Center For The Advancement of Non-Violence
* Member and active supporter, Amnesty International
* Member, President’s Council, Defenders of Wildlife
* Member and fundraiser, Environment California and CalPirg
* Member and Award Recipient, American Civil Liberties Union
* Member and supporter, Death Penalty Focus
* Member and supporter, Equality For All
* Fundraiser, NPH (Our Little Brothers) – for the children of the slums of Haiti
* Member, Citizens Commission on Human Rights
* Patron with Honors, IAS
And formerly:
* Trustee, Religious Freedom Trust
* Board Member and fundraiser, Hollywood Education and Literacy Project
* Board Member and fundraiser, For The Arts, For Every Child
– supporting art and music in public schools
* Board Member and fundraiser, The Christic Institute
– supporting Human Rights in Central America
* Founding Board Member, Earth Communication Office
* Working Board Member, Environmental Media Association
* Fundraiser, El Rescate – Human Rights for El Salvador
* Fundraiser, PAVA – Aid and Human Rights in Guatemala

143 responses to “Paul Haggis”

Thank you for posting this. I left the Church when I was 16, after only 6 months of involvement, because I was exposed to homophobia and because the San Diego Church attempted to undermine my relationship with my mother. It’s good to see these things being discussed.

OUTSTANDING ! Applause goes out, as my heart , to such a brave and selfless soul ! I hope everyone is affected by this – and motivated to follow his footsteps and DO THE RIGHT THING ! He definitely leads by example

The Hollywood Reporter is an important one. What do you suppose poor Tommy’s mommy will say about this — if anything? She will be asked, you know, and so will others. The homophobic issue couldn’t have come at a worse time for Scientology due to the Matthew Shepard bill.

Actually Tom….I am pretty sure a mother NEVER gets over her child so obviously being thrown to the wolves!

A mother can get over her child being held accountable for their actions but frankly Tommy Davis was a sacrificial lamb. As Rinder isn’t available I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Rena and Karen suddenly re-appearing.

Wow Shii – is that all you can find to say about it?
If I had a resume like that, I would list it too.
The guy clearly cares about what happens and DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
What have you done about it recently?

I surprised to learn a thoughtful man like Paul Haggis is a member of Scientology, which seems like a creepy self-improvement cult of the “soft cult” variety. Though with word they supported Prop 8 and tell grown children to break ties with “heretical” parents means they are even worse than I’d expected.

But I’ll tell you why they support Prop 8, it’s for the same reason as all those backwards churches. Without closeted homosexuals, their membership — especially full-timers – would be devastated. I mean, imagine the Catholic Church without closeted gay priests, or a Southern Baptist choir, or an Islamic all-male madrasssa or a buddhist monastary – every one of them is packed to the gills with self-hated, repressed and closeted homosexuals — and with civil equality and sexual liberation, these churches would dry up into dust and blow away.

Paul — get over scientology. All the L. Ron Hubbards can go worship themselves along with the Bob Avakians and Geshe Michael Roaches. Cultism and backwardness aren’t anything we need to be enlightened. Every religion takes a grain of truth, copyrights it and tries to rent it back to you for the rest of your life when it should be free.

If this were high school I’d nominate dm as the most likely to implode. I really wouldn’t want to be that guy right now – or at any other time. I’m sure all that precious money is helping now huh? – NOT!

Phil Collins just sort of “ad libbed” this song in the studio one day, and has stated that it was never about any one person in particular, just the anger one can experience at times after an unpredicted turn of events. It still seems relevant today:

What a powerful letter! Thank you for being such an open and brave person- fighting the good fight even when it burns bridges. I’m a huge fan of your work and now an even bigger one of you, thanks again.

Well Pandoras box is open now. I hope that this gets the flood gates blown wide so the rest of the lambs can get out of the pen and run free.

I hope GLAAD and LGBT groups are all over this and getting even more press about it. I would love to see Tommy look someone like Ellen Degeneres in the eye and lie right to her about how much the church “loves” gay people. Really where are all the gay Scientologists then? Where are the gay OT VIII’s? There aren’t any.

Maria, It crashed to an overload of traffic. The number of visitors more than 10Xed the previous highest number of visitors earlier today and the servers went down. Truly straight up and verticial! At last, one Scientology stat that is verifiable! Credit to Thoughtful for a great, great site.

Forgive my asking, but do you have a real stat other than “It’s booming?”

From what I’ve been seeing, I get a 403 error accessing the site. That’s “Forbidden” or “Access Denied.” Load doesn’t do that, someone would have to misconfigure the site or the permissions on the site.

Its not uncommon to get a 403 error when hosting WordPress. Its not the cleanest app, adding random homemade plugins makes it even worse. It could bve that they were making some config changes to this site in anticipation of a huge increase in traffic..

Davis said Haggis’ complaints were based on misunderstandings and that he has since spoken to the filmmaker. Davis strenuously disagreed with Haggis’ claim that the Church of Scientology is in any way anti-gay.

Davis said the San Diego chapter of the Church of Scientology was incorrectly characterized as supportive of Prop 8.

“We’re all for civil rights and the rights of minorities,” said Davis. “We know what it is to be a minority and have your rights curtailed. We’re very vocal and consistent in our stance on discrimination against anybody. We take it very seriously.”

AnEX, you actually need to get with your seniors and get together a presentation with LRH stats and real data if you want to impinge, not these silly signed proclamations making DM god and all the Scientologists devils.

Of course you guys didn’t do that because too many ex-managers know the true story and REAL stats.

Your runway is going to be incredibly long to get back in good favor with the group. Covering up for an SP after the MOUNTAINS of evidence contained on this blog and the truth rundown videos? Your pathetic. – Boyd Hutchins

sin has no place on the same level as righteousness.gay people should have the same humanitarian rights but as far as marriage goes.. SICK!!!!!! yes on prop 8 .thanks church of scientology of san diego

Who cares? I mean they are neither Christian nor Scientists! The Bible, the inspired word of God says that homosexuality is wrong. I believe it called it an “Abomination”. At any rate, Scientology is a cult, not a true religion.

Thank you Paul,
This is wonderful. It’s really empowering to see people stand up for what is right even when it’s the hardest thing to do. We just launched our new website and being bashed like crazy, but we must keep moving forward because their are so many people out there hurting and need an encouragement from someone real.

Wow, this is unfortunate. Interesting story. Paul received a LOT of wonderful Scientology counseling early on. Scientology counseling increases one’s ability. This is most evident in the transparent world of the arts. Paul joined the ranks of Chick Corea, John Travolta and Tom Cruise as celebrities whose careers skyrocketed after a developing a foundation in Scientology concepts. Just looking at all of the remarkable accomplishments and humanitarian measures in Paul’s life… leads one to wonder if his basis in Scientology was THE major contributor. L. Ron Hubbard said that Scientology was to make the able more able. I happen to agree with Paul’s side beefs though. Disconnection is too often ‘suggested’ and sometimes the wrong people are ‘declared’ (meaning declared suppressive to the Church).

In the early days, Hubbard placed homosexuality at the level of ‘covert hostility’ on his emotional scale. At the time it was accurate. Homosexuality was best hidden. Now, as any homosexual could tell you, the ability to come out of the closet today frees them of this over-arching covertness that has been necessary in times past. Nothing in the Church’s Creeds or Codes prohibits any sexual orientation. It would be nice to hear them express a more liberal viewpoint publicly.
As far as the recent Rinder’s and Rathburn’s comments that were alluded to… They were both high-ranking Scientologists. They claimed that every now and then that Miscavaige (the Chairman of the Board) would give someone a smack. The Church denies this, but who knows. What is most interesting is what they didn’t say. They DID have problems with Miscavaige. But they didn’t have problems with the technology of Scientology as developed by L. Ron Hubbard. They didn’t disparage the Technology at all. They just hoped for better management. What rings true here is that Scientology is definitely experiencing some growing pains along the way and has some problems, but that the concepts of Scientology work. Scientology makes the able more able. You can discover this for yourself in one weekend. Just buy a used copy of Self Analysis (by L. Ron Hubbard) and use it for a couple days. You will notice your mood improving, the world looking brighter, and your thinking will also be clearer. It is a fun process to increase ability that you can run on yourself or your friends.

I am guessing that Paul would basically agree with this letter and appreciate having it in his comments section.

That sounds really nice, but how about a hardball? Explain to us what this business with Xenu is all about. I’ll bet you can’t. You sound like you’re well trained.

How about this softball… L. Ron Hubbard claimed he was Buddha in a past life, didn’t he? Or is that supposed to be a secret, too.

Finally, once you pay enough time and/or money to climb the ladder to a high enough level, you learn that Christianity and the Bible is “false data”. In fact Hubbard says that an evil brain implant is responsible for making people believe in those things? Can you talk about any of this?

I have noticed that on the Anonymous forums when Marty first posted Paul Haggis’s letter that many anon members forwarded the letter to media outlets in order to get it widespread attention (which seems to have been successful). *BUT* I find it to be hypocritical and a double standard that there is also often heavy criticism of Marty’s postings on those same forums, yet various anons are happy to use Marty’s blog as a source of news and as a tool against CofS. You can’t have it both ways.

I also want to qualify the prior statement by saying that I applaud the efforts of Anonymous overall in the past 2 years and it was the constant protests that gave my wife and I the impetus to read and investigate the information on the internet and find out that what anons were saying about the CofS was mostly accurate, which in turn lead to us both leaving the CofS late last year. I also appreciate certain anon members support and advice in what was initially a dark and isolating time when we first left.

So my criticism of Anon on this issue is genuine and not motivated by other issues.

a forum can’t be hypocritical. Only a person can. Anons take a range of positions with respect to Marty.

Personally I don’t think it’s hypocritical to give credit where credit is due and criticise where you think criticism is due. By that, I don’t mean to defend any particular criticisms or any particular anons. Just saying…

When I was a young man, I verbally attacked a man who was trying to sell the audience on signing up for $ 2,600 worth of Scientology instruction. The guy claimed to have an IQ of 200 (originally 110, but improved by training). I gave him a number series and asked the next following numbers, which he would have known if he truly had a 200 IQ (instant learning and understanding at that level). The next thing I knew, I was being thrown out by several very large men. Hope Paul isn’t visited by the same “Type” for his letter.

Hurrah for you Paul – takes a really brave person to run the risk of retaliation from the Scientology “Church”.

I find this whole article somewhat compelling. As one to not normally speak out this seems to be a catalyst for people who believe that everyone should be allowed to do, well what ever they want. Be it homosexual, belonging to a cult or what ever allows them to feel better about themselves. This country as a majority is following that line it seems. I’ll admit i don’t know every in and out of the Scientology Church, or any other religion for that matter, that being said, I do believe that if everyone did know everything about every Religion that everyone would be shocked to some degree. People associate themselves with what is convenient at that time and what comes closest to their own thoughts and morals. So in a way if the Church of Scientology as it seems has a Anti-Gay stance then why is this wrong. Why are they being criticized ( i believe its partially because everyone has an opinion, and most like to give it, rather than a solution)? Again its because people want to please everyone ,we have gone into the “well if thats just how they are, so be it” if that be the case then someone who murders is just simply that a murderer and so by the worlds standards that should be okay? Or if someone rapes another again that should be okay? Here is the question for you “Should it?” No it isn’t therefore it shouldn’t. Homosexuality is not natural therefore it is wrong. 99% percent of homosexuals have had a situation, circumstance, or event happen to them that has them believing that is the way they are supposed to be. Be it they had no father figure, or mother figure, or a tragedy. I don’t agree that we should bash them or protest them or hate them but it shouldn’t be condoned either. Christianity says its the acts that makes a persona sinner not the person. Same principle that Guns don’t kill people, people do. At first you can disagree and I am sure many will but the basics of it are truth. A gun by itself wont kill you it takes a person with a finger to point and aim or be irresponsible with it that kills a person. Lets get back to the roots of us as a people, sit and ponder that for a while.

Louis said “99% percent of homosexuals have had a situation, circumstance, or event happen to them that has them believing that is the way they are supposed to be.” Where did you get this figure? I have never heard this before. I also did not know that anything humans do could be considered “not natural”, being that humans are part of nature. As far as the stance that the Church of Scientology takes on being gay, I think the issue he is trying to get across is that they state one thing and act another. If they state that they are anti-gay and act it, then there is no issue. The same goes for the reverse.

This is truly an epic win for the people trying to stop the crimes of the Co$. This man in his letter shows the world what $cientology is doing to families via disconnection, and their views on gay rights. The Co$ views homosexuality as a mental illness, and treat homosexuals as second-class citizens. Now with the emergence of this brave soul, who not only left, but has decided to show what he has said, this will only strengthen the resolve of Anons around the world to stopping the evils that has come of the Co$.

To Paul Haggis:

Anonymous commends you on your acts. Surely, this has taken a lot of courage to do. You know they use disconnection, and you are probably already aware of the Fair Game policy, that they claimed was called off. But, the fine print on Fair Game said, SPs are still targets of Fair Game. If they decide to declare you an SP, which they probably will, they will do whatever it takes to ruin you in any way possible. Thank you Mr. Haggis, and best of luck in your future endeavors.

Thank you so much for posting this letter. I understand that you wished privacy for it, but the message had to get out about what is really going on. I was a member for a couple of years when I was a young child, maybe age 8 to 12. I took courses, saw auditors, held the “cans” of the e-meter often (and was told I was almost “Clear”), just to CONSTANTLY be told that I was “a BIG person in a little person’s body”. This lead me to acting like an adult and missing a huge part of my childhood. I literally DO NOT remember certain grades in school and have mentally blocked out YEARS of my life. Memories gone because they probably didn’t actually exist.

As for the gay-bashing: I’ve had gay/lesbian friends and I have always been accepting of them no matter what. Some of them are the coolest friends anyone could have ever had! When I was 12, I lived in an apartment complex across the street from the Celebrity Centre. That is where I met one of my best friends (that I am still in touch with today). Just because he liked the long-hair look, some of the other Scientologist kids in the complex and neighborhood and even at the local school would lash out verbally and even physically, calling him gay, amongst other names. Their parents did nothing to handle the situation, which told me that it was encouraged. I was beaten by some of these kids one day behind the apartments just because I was friends with this person they didn’t like (I’m keeping his name private).

So again, thank you for posting this letter. I always thought it was just me and I had a bad experience as a child, but lately I am hearing all sorts of “stuff” about the “church” and I am not too happy myself. Just a matter of months before my father passed away (9 years ago this month), he converted to Christianity because he was unhappy with the church. He never exactly told me why he was unhappy, I just know he was. I have plenty more examples/experiences if anyone wishes to hear more, but for now I will go. Thank you also for hearing what I have to say…

Tom Cruise is a puppet, and he is pathetic. Read the uauthorized book by Andrew Morton, quite interesting.
Basically, anyone who is famous is more Equal than other church members. Sea org’s are only paid $35 week and treated like slaves. If they complain they are punished severely in work camps where they have to run around poles in the hot sun for hours at a time. Talk about civil rights violations. Tom Cruise you are mental midget sent to Miscavige’s work. How pathetic.

I’ve never understood what the draw is for those involved in Scientology. Can anyone summarize it in a few sentences? For those who have left the church, would you characterize it as a cult now that you’re no longer involved? If there are other sites that would help me understand these points I’d welcome the direction. Thanks.

This is a copy of my answer in a previous post of a similar question. I hope it heps

Hello Thirsty for truth,

That is a great thirst to have and satisfy. I too will try to answer your questions, but don’t look for too much consensus in matters of belief, Scientologist are not required to believe anything.

The founder said he would feel insulted if anyone ever tried to turn his religious philosophy into a dogmatic system, hence this website.

What do Scientologist actually believe?

Because of the above, this varies greatly, some believe in god, others don’t. Some believe nothing and only accept what they can observe.
But here are some of the major tenets of the philosophy.

Man is basically good, any evil he is capable of is due to various phenomena which the founder investigated. Same with troubles and shortcomings.

The mind is a perfect machine capable of perfect computations, but like a computer, if you feed it wrong data, it will give wrong answers.

Man is a composite of Mind, body and the spirit. The spirit is capable of though, the mind is just the tool, like a filing cabinet that stores and evaluates data, but decision is the function of the spirit we call it thetan to avoid confusions.

Communications is one of the most basic tools to deal with life and learn. If you can learn to effectively communicate, you get along a lot better.

Again, these were hypothesis that when tested bear out. But Hubbard explains how he arrived at these ideas in his lectures and fully expects everyone to test them and decide for one self.

Why do you still believe in Scientology?

I don’t believe in it, I use it, it works and I’m much better for it, so I say what I find in it to be true. But here you have to be very careful to find your own truth and not take other’s truth as yours, it never works when you do that.

Why do they say it is related to the Buddhism and the Vedas?
If you read the works of Buddha and the Vedic hymns, there is much that Scientology’s founder learned from these, in fact in the earlier editions of the book Science of Survival, he acknowledges 10,000 years of thinking man and special mention goes to a number of philosophers, like Aristotle or Will Durant. He learned a lot from them and then isolated the most fundamental ideas and coordinated them into a workable system. I always laugh when people claim he tried to take credit for ideas others developed earlier. I make it a point to read these works he read and it enriches my understanding of his philosophy o so much more.

In your opinion, is this true or

Yes it is true

Is it really a UFO religion?

I have never read anything that gives UFOs any importance whatsoever, I have read accounts of people who experienced past lives in ancient civilizationson other planets and in other Galaxies

If not, why do they classify it as such?

I find that most people who assign such classifications never bother to read the works and simply go by rumors. But I guess if the mentions of past lives in other planets which is by no means the central theme of the philosophy qualifies it as such in some people’s minds, then so be it. To me it is just another label.

Did anyone here know Hubbard?

Not personally, (me) others probably did

What was he like?

I can tell by his works, I see a very caring human being, who like us made mistakes and acknowledges them. I find that anyone claiming to have all the answers for everyone is a very arrogant person, and to my delight, Hubbard has specifically stated that he does not have every answer to everything and everyone, he simply has a system that he hopes, will help man find his own answers. His system is workable, not perfect.

Was he paranoid and terrible?

I don’t see that.

Was he kind?

You get that sense a lot when you read his works

Should I worry that the church will come after me for talking to you?

No, the Church is really a generality, most people within the Church have no ax to grind with anyone. Those who have been targeted are specifically vocal critics of the Church’s activities.

They are good people, otherwise very sensible, but since there have been some real attacks on them and the philosophy, by some very nasty people, they have taken the stance that any criticism is an attack. – they are no longer really looking for themselves. I have faith they will sooner or later recognize we are not fighting them and all will be fine.

And you, you are just an inquiring mind, They actually would love to help you too, but are somewhat precluded by the things discussed here.

I really recommend you buy (or get from library) and read a book and decide for your self it the Philosophy has something to offer you
To this I will just add, that thanks to Scientology and it’s correct application, I have regained myself, I understand why I am the way I am, why I did things I did not like to do, who I am, and what my purpose in life is, I understand my relationship to the world, my place in the skim of things, and I understand human kind enough, that I feel no hate for anyone, really. I may feel anger, but never hate. I have love for all life and that I gained through Scientology.

I was involved in the Church for over two years when I met someone of the same gender that I wanted to date. I had been out to them the whole time, but only when I met someone did they tell me that I could not pursue a relationship if I wanted to stay in the Church. They are bold-faced liars when they say that they are not anti-gay. Needless to say, I am no longer involved with the Church of Scientology.

I was an Ethics Officer for years and received out of session O/W write-ups from parishioners from everything imaginable. To this day, even though I have been off staff for 20 yrs I would never reveal what hundreds of parishioners disclosed to me so as to improve their condition even though it was out of session data. Since I was not bound by the Auditor’s Code in those handlings but still held my stance, I shudder to imagine that those admissions made by parishioners bound by that sacred code are so easily being exposed is unimaginable. I have lost my faith under this regime of DM altogether and he will never get me in session, I’d rather talk to the wall.

“I’ve seen the stats and you are in fact wrong, because the stats are up. I don’t have a reason why I waited till now to tell you or anyone this, aside from the fact that I wanted you to help drag Scientologists outside of the church. Just kidding. I don’t care where the stats are at and I deny my own reality 24/7. You are my opterm and I don’t have the confront to unfix a stable datum of this magnitude. Whenever I start to actually think, a circuit having to do with the general aestheticism of tone 40 and the Sea org bypasses any logical thought process. And by the way I don’t know the definition of natter. I’ve decided to be a slave and admire your efforts from afar because I don’t exist and can’t cause anything.”

Today Show mentioned Paul Haggis’ exit from CofS and scholar adds how this is significant and differs from other celebrity “quiet” exits. Sadly I just missed the segment but my sister told me about it. And so it continues to roll … 28 October 09 —

Well done for standing up against this cult – it is nothing but a money making sham. People need to start thinking for themselves and stop putting their life responsibilities into the hands of these manipulating charlatans – sadly they are not dissimilar to politicians, however, to show courage as you have done has revealed you do not stand alone. Power to the people.

anEX, I’d like to air out my own concerns with DM’s management, and give you a chance to respond, or dead agent me. You’ve already gotten in comm with me, are you willing to do that? We could stay away from silly games and just discuss what’s happening.

I haven’t seen an argument yet to dead agent all the info on this board except the signed affidavits by Yager etc., so how about letting me know where you’re coming from? You could take up any old posts from me or I can start by listing out my main concerns. This is your chance to handle this situation.

Amazing and at the same time shocking, the wife disconnecting from her parents…OMG!
Also the fact that he didn’t even research the critics over the years it’s pretty wild…
But over all a great letter.
I feel sorry for the people that have to deal with T.Davis and David Miscaviage…..

Thankyou for your courageous resignation letter, Mr. Haggis. 35 yrs is a long time to be under the influence of a mind controlling sect and no matter how smart you think you are, your behavior is altered and not for the better. The key fact that you reveal so aptly is that they lie; they tell bold face lies and only a very few call them out on this. Believe me, once you become a victim of scientology’s tactics, it is very hard to get out from under their subtle brain altering methods. For several years now, I have been trying to get my son to step back and analyze Scientology with more objectivity but with little results. His wife, who he met thru the COS gave up a very good job one year before they were married. She spent almost the entire year in NY at some COS arriving back home shortly before the wedding. After the wedding, she went to work for the church where she puts in long hours, 7 days a week, for little or no pay, but in exchange for courses. I believe she signed some sort of contract obligating herself to 5 yrs servitude, and don’t forget the billion year contract, also! Her explanation is that she does this to help make the world a better place. This weekend the couple will be attending an inauguration of some “founding” church in Wash. DC where supposedly LRH first started his org. My heart cringes that my intelligent, kind, talented son could be so mislead about all of this……I can’t imagine him finally recognizing falsity after having been a part of it 35 yrs. It is my hope and prayer that Mr. Haggis and other truth sayers about the COS will save him and his wife these precious years of their lives.

I sit here wondering how to start and conclude that no matter what I say someone will not like it so I will just do my best. I have friends and family who are homosexual and I love them dearly. I also have friends and/or family who have or are commiting fornication/adultery. I still love them. I do NOT love or support the action. As a Christian I do not support marriage between homosexuals, as marriage was instituted by God and the Bible is very specific about practiced homosexuality(as well as fornication {sex between un-marrieds}and adultery{sex with someone other than your spouse}) being a sin. I do however support Civil Unions which give the same benefits of marriage. No one has the right to obligate a religion to go against their convictions. It is the responsability of every believer to uphold the Bible-based tenets of their faith. It is not wrong to call sin “SIN”. We do need to remember tho that there is a very thin line between recognizing error and becoming an accuser of the brethern and to make sure that we do not cross it. A Christians stand should be with love and respect for all sinners (P.S. we all sin) but without compromising with sin.

I have watched the video ‘Going Clear’ 20 times (literally). I was in another cult / Church – Revival centres international until 2014 in Australia and believe it or not… there are so many similarities between the two cults / churches…Its not funny! I can equate with the ‘out of fellowship’, mind manipulation and the feeing of being trapped in a system of belief that you want to escape from but can’t. I dare to mention that the Revival Centres International is 100% owned by the Longfield family – all funds / tithes going into their family trust! Thank you for helping me see it for what it is. I too feel stupid. Just had to let you know that you have reached more people than you are aware of!

I read your post with interest and looked up the RCI since I had never heard of it. I would be interested to hear what caused you to leave specifically and what you now associate with. Have you been “born again” and if so where are you now finding fellowship. It would be good to hear from you, my e-mail address is pip_threlfall@yahoo.co.uk