Just wondering if anybody else besides SA Climbing Magazine believes Ard Ay is 8b. I just cannot think how Jerry could have come over to SA and opened such a problem. I was in Rocklands and saw him climbing, he's f..ing strong but not that strong. Then out of the blue we have three repeats. Come on we've had 10 8b's in Rocklands for ages but Justin is the only one to come close: Leopard Cave 8a+/b. I think people should have a look at the problems at Rocklands e.g. Desperado, Armed Responce or The Vice those are 8b. All i'm saying is lets not be to hasty.

Ja bru I agree totally!To climb 8b is f***ing hard and I cannot see the people that repeated Ard Ay sending other 8b's like The Vice(ooooh!!) or Desperado!Something that is very interesting is the fat that the south africans that have repeated it has not come close to bouldering at that grade(at Rlanz in any case)!You do not simply skip a couple of grades and send a 8b dude, I think they should try the extension of A Question of Power and then we all will come to the conclusion that Ard Ay might not be 8b?

Bru Fred does not give a rat's ass about the grading, that dude probilly just confirmed it to get some irretating grade fetished idiot off his back, dude he only worked it for two days??That speaks for it's self!

I think if people actually knew where the Vice is, they'd try it (although it looks ridiculously hard). Apparently the Vice is 8B+ish if you're much shorter than Thomas Willenberg (who's 6'6\"), which probably keeps most away anyway. Desperado, in my opinion, is a shit line, and not worthy of trying. It's a complete eliminate. Armed Response is a pretty good line though. BTW, does anyone know what the problem is in the actual Fortress boulder. It's a roof problem on a long, sometimes slopey rail with eff all for feet. It felt pretty damn hard (7B/Cish) when I tried it.

Get a life! Does it really matter whether 'Ard Ay' is (or isn't) 8b? If it's not that 'Ard' why aren't more folks doing it? Judging by the pics it looks like a cool problem, and it only took one of the worlds strongest Boulderers two days to send. It must be a piece of piss Waiting for the mysterious 'surprised' and 'satisfied' to send...waiting...waiting...

All I'm saying is that there are better lines that Desperado (which has jugs all down the one side of it that you're not allowed to use). There are plenty of awesome lines at Rocklands that are freaking hard, so why try something like Desperado, unless you're just gunning for the grade. And if you're just climbing for the grade, then hey, that's up to you... RE: 'Ard 'Ay being 8B or not - I've spoken to some of the ascentionists, who have all said that one of the reasons that they could send it (apart from being freaking strong) was that it was much closer to Rocklands. The access was easier, being that if you live in Cape Town it's 30 minutes away, so you can get up there during the week and really work it. If Fred and Jerry graded it 8B, I'll take their word for it, especially as it's too hard for me to repeat and confirm/regrade (if I could repeat it, it wouldn't be 8B, so there ya go)..

I was in the Cederberg with Jerry, and can attest to the fact that he is a very strong climber. Now here is the skinny. He climbed a number of hard Rocklands problems relatively quickly and with relative ease. Pendragon 8A 2nd go (almost a flash falling on last move); Sit-Start to Sunset Arete 8A+?; plus flashes of many more hard problems. What I understand is that Ard Ay took considerably longer to get...Now does that make it 8B I am not sure, I have never tried it. One thing is for sure, after seeing Jerry climb I have no doubt that he could climb harder than he did in the Rocklands.

we have 3 climbers how's climb 8b?And Mr.Hawkins with his huge physique and piss strong hooking power.[tHE rOCKLANDS MOVIE WAS REALLY BEF*K.Respect!!!!!!]Respect to all of them.I would like them all to do The Vice and the other 8b's at Rocklands.For that matter the rest of the world and let's do all the 8c sommer net so. No, stop Let's...slow...down...Was is 8b ,I don't know.Let's rather stop complaining and explaining.The callenge for all SA climbers or rather boulders who climbs hard. is to [To open there own problems and grade it at 8b so then we all can climb 8b until the grade is confirmed by Fred,who is the God of gradings.Jajajaja]in my mind if I could climb a 8b I'd RATHER CLIMB A PROBLEM LIKE THE VICE OR ARMED RESPONCE.It looks harder

This is so sad. People who are too scared to print their names, saying that a problem is overgraded (a problem that they have never seen, let alone tried!!!) What is wrong with you. Apart from looking like over-competitive twats, you are pissing on the great efforts of three of SA's top climbers. Sad, very sad.

Fair point Guy but to be honest it doesn't matter whether it is 8a....8a is still impressive and I can't climb anywhere near that grade. If there is a problem with the grading then consensus will eventually sort it out. Quite cool that at least three SA climbers climb above 8a (whether 8a+ or 8b). j

Look! Ard Ay is not 8B finnished and Klaar. 8A+ at most. Clinton said he thinks it's 8A+... and I'm not sure what the others said who did it, but I can't think that they thought it to be 8B. I did all the moves in one hour, I mean I was strong at the time but I aint no 8B'er. My weak point here is that I never actually did it cause I got fat and lazy and I'd been bouldering a shitload and got sick of it.

What's in a grade anyway, give or take a plus or a minus. I'm sure the guys that have done it have chated about the grade and have probably come to a consensus. Well done and keep cranking, and as for suprised, open your trap next time when you've done the route yourself. And have somthing constructive to say. Well said Guy ! We need more doers and less talkers and moaners.

I disagree, what's wrong with debate, things are upgraded and downgraded all the time, where's the harm in questioning it? Some foreigner recently arrived at Rocklands and wanted to downgrade everything - we told him to f*&k off of course Just my unworthy two cents.

There is a subtle but important difference between constructive debate and whinging. Similarly friendly competition drives standards, but comments intended to undermine the achievements of others simply piss everyone off!