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Thursday, May 16, 2013

My Facebook friends are reporting several incidents around the schools in Greece today. Does anyone have the details?

Any idea what is going on at Greece Olympia High School? Lots of police and several ambulances by the walk bridge at the school. Was there a fight? (approx. 3pm)

Greece police had a group of several youths pulled over on latta near mt read at 3. Something went down .... Yeah I saw that too. Police had someone in back if car and I saw a gang of kids over a few streets

That shows what you know about schools. Administration is in charge of discipline - not the teachers. If a kid bullies another student - it is written up and Admin handles it. If a kid gets in a fight - it is written up and Admin handles it. If a kid disrupts instruction in class - the teacher can assign detention. However when the kid skips detention, the only action that can be taken is writing the student up and....you guessed it, Admin handles it.

Ignoring the problems of society and dumping everything at the feet of the teacher ~~ I'm sorry but that's just another tired excuse ...just like the its never the parents fault mantra.

When a 4th grade student addresses his teacher with a FOUL MOUTH, and the teacher doesn't bat an eyelash in response, that teacher has just taught that student that it is OK TO DISRESPECT THE TEACHER. Next time, the student is likely to try something even worse ... testing the waters to see what it takes to get a response.

Please do not try to tell me that the teacher has no responsibility in these daily situations.

Scats, chances are REAL GOOD that the teacher has spoken to the student (privately, of course or else his or her feelings would be hurt), called the parent/s AND written a referral and given it to the administrator in charge of said student and the buck stops there!! More times than I care to count the student has "a talk" with their AP and it ends there. We would not know this as we see nothing in return. It is only later, after we find and talk to the AP that we learn that no consequence has been issued. this is the point where we are told that the student was having a "bad day" or the they come from a bad home blah, blah, blah! How many times this occurs depends on the AP that is in charge of the said student. How long would it take YOU to figure out that treating teachers poorly is acceptable? Kids are not afraid of telling you either! They are kicked out for disrupting instruction only to have them return 10 min later even more disruptive than before adding that they did not even get in trouble.In the case of the " fight"... Two of the students are 2 such "frequent fliers " in the school... Numerous incidents documented by both teachers and security, numerous in school suspensions and OSS. These are students who are always in the halls, skipping classes and generally have taken ownership of the school. The teachers' hands are tied if those higher up do not take control back! They exhibit a total lack of authority. This is about 10 percent or so of the population but have made it impossible for all the rest. Here I blame Babs as these kids when brought to a superintendent' s hearing need to be removed permanently. This did not happen with at least one of the arrested students despite a paper trail the length of a train! Before you put the blame at the feet of the teachers, come walk a mile in our shoes.

Scats, when the teacher doesn't say anything it is probably because it is futile. The previous post is correct that it really lies in the hands of administration. Say what you want but that kid comes back after being thrown out of class with more disruption knowing that nothing will be done. Here is my question to administration. When a students has 30, 40, and maybe even 50 referrals, in one school year and that kid still attends school, who is running this show? I know for a fact that there are students with multiple referrals and they keep coming back for more and all the admin. does is nothing.

To 7:34PM ~~ I don't need to walk a mile in your shoes to know they are too tiny for my feet. I chose NOT to become a teacher for a variety of reasons. You chose to become one possibly for some different reasons.

While I'm sure it's no picnic dealing with these smart mouthed punks, I also know for a fact that in 20 years of attending and/or listening to BOE meetings that there has NEVER BEEN A TEACHER COMPLAINING TO THE BOE ABOUT DISCIPLINE!! I also know for a fact that GTA has NEVER COMPLAINED EITHER!

Given the lack of anyone getting serious about getting discipline issues tended to, what do you expect outsiders to think, do or say when teachers whine about student discipline??

To 8:27PM ~~ How interesting that you knew the content of 7:34PM's post when I didn't post it until around midnight, same time as I posted your comment!

One student with 30 to 50 referrals?? WHY THE HELL IS THIS NEVER BROUGHT UP TO THE BOE BY INDIVIDUAL TEACHERS AND/OR UNION BRASS??

Scats, I was actually talking about post 1:51, nonetheless the coincidence is that this happens more often than not and not just at one school. When they truth is out there many people will speak of the same thing. No collusion as you might suggest, just facts!

1:54 is on target with the point about teachers refusing responsibility for discipline through their collective bargaining agreements. That teachers not discipline students is a demand that the teachers have steadfastly maintained and never reconsidered.

It would be worthwhile to remember, to the best of our fading abilities, how it was done before. What tools did teachers use to maintain discipline back then that they refuse to use today? Why must every disciplinary action begin with referral? What, realistically, could teachers relearn how to do if only their contracts required it?

The truth is, teacher discipline was so scary back in the day that nobody challenged teacher authority, and so it is actually very hard to remember how they enforced order! Yet they did.

To 10:32AM ~~ It was only "scary" if you didn't obey the teacher's orders & got referred to see the principal! The teacher would use a variety of tactics to get better behavior. They ranged from embarrassing the kid in front of the class ("calling him out" on it), standing/sitting with your nose pointed to & touching the wall in the corner, standing in the hallway with your nose touching the wall, sending a note home that had to be returned signed by both parents, calling parents, providing additional assignments, staying after school for detention, detention on Sat. morning, getting referred to the boys gym teacher who would work your backside so you would sit still in class, sitting in the office, referral to the principal ... who would then potentially enlist use of a group of harsher punishments, including use of a paddle.

Scats. Not only are you dating yourself with your comments about how it used to be. You're talking about 20 or 30 years ago when respect for authority still existed in our schools. Don't say you know all about our schools until you get out from behind your curtain and see the reality of an average school day in Greece. Before you trash teachers, unions and any one else, like security, I really think you should get a visitors pass for OA, GO, GA and observe for yourself what goes on during passing time, and what ever you do don't pass up the cafeterias. After you do that, then and only then would you have any credibility about the behavior of the inmates. It's really become a BLACK BOARD JUNGLE at some of these schools. Only GO has had success in gaining the upper hand.

In order to take back our schools from the small percentage hell bent on acting like animals, there must be a concerted effort on the part of all staff members. It starts at the top where the buck stops and filters down the chain. These trouble makers are tough, street smart kids. Our almost totally female staff is no match for these types who laugh at the system as they continue to control our schools with no fear of reprisal. "Kick me out of school? Please!! Until our district starts to recruit some tough male teachers, the reign of terror will continue. Shaun Nelms is a good start but he needs help. Most of all, we need a no nonsense Superintendent that will carry "a large stick." A Joe Clark type comes to mind.

Things are very different today than they were back in "the day." You certainly can't hit a student, you can't embarrass a student in front of the class, you can't sit a kid in the corner with a dunce cap on, or have them staring at the wall for that matter. Having the physical education teacher make the student do more work is considered a form of bullying. Sending a student home to get a paper signed by the parents will never be returned, nor will the parents likely return any calls. If they do return a call they generally look to blame anything and everything except their own child that had instigated the bad behavior (the apple never falls far from the tree). Oh, and 20-50 referrals for the year is pretty normal for the "bad" kids. The BOE would have their hands full if the teachers went to them for every kid that reached the 25 referral mark.

To 3:33PM ~~ I've been in Greece schools for many hours. I know exactly what is ALLOWED to go on! That's thing: the kids know it's permitted.

I'm sorry, but I think it starts at the bottom WHERE THE PROBLEMS OCCUR DAILY! If those at the bottom aren't willing to speak up to their union or the BOE or Supt. then they deserve the HELL THEY CREATED.

Re: "Only GO has had success in gaining the upper hand."

You must be kidding!!!!

To 4:28PM ~~ I'm sure you must be in education. You are what I call a bonafide "victim" of your own tunnel vision. Your world is driven by the things you can't do, instead of by creating (if need be) things you CAN do. No wonder our kids aren't ready for the real world when they graduate. They've been taught to throw up hurdles at every corner!

Right. Whistle blowers always have things end well for them. That will be the day when a teacher walks in front of the BOE and details all the discipline problems their school and administrators allow. I'm not even going to totally blame the administrators. They get their orders from above as well (Keep suspensions down, Don't report too much to State Es. Etc.)

No, I am not in education. I'm just an ordinary citizen with an opinion who, like Scats goes back a few years and as such can be more objective than your vision of a situation that you have limited experience in these matters. I suggest you have limited vision as to how things were at one time and blinded by the facts and reality of the way things are today. My friend there is no easy fix. Do you really think that if the teachers went to the board to demand that something be done, they would be able to fix it let alone listen. You make the assumption that they, the board, are ignorant to what is going on in our schools. You're wrong they do. Even so, the only person responsible for discipline is the uperintendent. Their powers are limited to action they can take at a Superintendent's hearing or a suspension or expulsion to uphold her decision or overrule her. That's it! And Scats, yes, Chris Sloan is doing a great job under very vexing conditions in comparison to other buildings. She is the toughest building principal in the district. She refuses to be intimidated by these transplants that are over= running this district and town.

To 7:53PM ~~ Why the hell are they paying union dues if their rep has no spine to bring the problem up? As far as I'm concerned, no complaint to the powers that be means NO PROBLEM ;) Let them continue to suffer the life of victims of their own ignorance and feet of lead.

To 8:04PM ~~ You talk as if you knew me, which I'm sure you do not! You see, you've made many assumptions about my age, my schooling, etc. I can tell you most of them are pretty far off!

As for Olympia HS, I can tell you stories about the daily issues they hope no one gets wind of outside the building. I get messages from parents apprising me about a building where the inmates are running it. See, they even have YOU fooled! The cops are over there almost daily.

To 3:33, what will the tough male teachers that you envision hiring actually do? Under current collective bargaining norms, won’t they be emasculated?

To SCATS and others, why would the union complain about discipline? The terror in the schools works to the union’s advantage, since they get to claim that working conditions are harsh and teachers therefore need [a] more money, [b] fewer hours of exposure to the kids, and [c] fewer kids per class. In terms of how the union measures success, terror is good business.

Can we meet confidentially? I am a District employee who would love to explain why what you ask is impossible! I would also embrace the opportunity to pass along all the documented tidbits I have that would put 20 to 30 higher level employees before local, county, state, and federal courts. Violations at all levels occur every day. But I am in fear of losing my job! Whistleblowers don't generally survive. I will testify, but I will not initiate the process!

To 6:57PM ~~ Uhhhh ... I've avoided such offers in the past, as intriguing as it is. I'm not sure what I could do to help other than to put info out there. That can be accomplished via email just as easily ... no?

To 6:20 pm. I can GUARANTEE that you are one of the district employees that do absolutely NOTHING to better the educational process of the district. A major problem in the district and reason for decline in performance and behavior. Many district employees (teachers and staff) are useless employees that have slipped through the cracks and have made a nice living doing it. There is little pride in people like you to do the best YOU can do in your position. Instead of looking to bring down everyone, take a look at what you bring to the table that actually makes a difference. And what I mean by this is that doing what is in the "job description" you were hired for does not make you an exceptional employee. Education careers (all levels and areas) require the "extra mile" to really do a bang up job and consider yourself effective. Stop spending the majority of your work day trying to find out who did what wrong and GET TO WORK! Everyone has skeletons and everyone has done things in their life that they are not proud of, but your personal feelings toward someone is not reason enough to bring them down. Especially if they are doing good things for the district. (this is where you say "they are not doing anything for the district" because you have no other arguments). If you really have something that will help the district and not destroy a family or person, the present it and be the hero for making a wrong right. If you are concerned with personal decisions in their lives that you don't agree with then you need to talk to that person and express your opinions with them. If you are not personally invested in making change, please shut your mouth until you get the stones to put in the extra work required in education to ensure success.

I deal with various employees of the district through my job and I am disgusted with the negativity that spews out of too many employees in the district. I making a promise that when I encounter another employee that feels they are entitled to more than they are given or don't work with me in a positive manner that will positively effect the district and more importantly the students of the district, I will raise the red flag to the powers that be about that position. I am a proud resident and parent to children of this town/district and I refuse to let you or others like you continue to get away with the bare minimum and think they are doing something spectacular.