People don't NEED a H2 or a corvette either, we have them because they're fun and we CAN.
I would submit that more people are killed each year with/in high performance sports cars than will ever be acheived with privatly owned full auto weapons.

Actually, I believe our forefathers had the idea that a public armed as well as the government military would deter that same government from a tolatarian position.
That just might fit the word NEED!
But hey, our politicians are smarter than our founders. NOT!

"God does not favor the largest regiment but the best shot." paraphrase of Voltaire

Originally Posted By MaverickMkii:
It should be a little more difficult to obtain a machine gun, and you should be more heavily punished when you commit crime with it...but I think thats about it, no more restrictions.

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That's retarded. Do you have the same thoughts about long knives, or maybe switchblades? What about big bats? Should drunks in big trucks be punished more than those in little cars?

There's no reason why a private citizen needs a firearm that shoots 8, 15, 21, 50 or even HUNDREDS of lethal lead projectiles all with just a [u]single pull of the trigger[/u], and all with very little ability to carefully aim each of the individual, yet still highly deadly, projectiles in a controlled manner.
With a firearm like that, all you have to do is stand in front of the class or resturaunt and [b]"spray and spray and spray some more"[/b].

Originally Posted By OmegaMan:
There's no reason why a private citizen needs a firearm that shoots 8, 15, 21, 50 or even HUNDREDS of lethal lead projectiles in a all with just a [u]single pull of the trigger[/u], and all with very little ability to carefully aim each of the individual, yet still highly deadly, projectiles in a controlled manner.
With a firearm like that, all you have to do is stand in front of the class or resturaunt and [b]"spray, spray and spray some more"[/b].

Bullshit.
I say that machineguns (including subguns) should be as readily available as any other type of gun.
I also would support the repeal of the NFA of 1934 and ALL gun laws passed since, and the disbanding of the BATF, to be replaced by nobody.
Punish criminal acts only, not what you own and use. Machines don't give you criminal intent.
It's not illegal to own a car that can do 180 or even 200 miles per hour. Having the capacity to do so is not illegal. Having a fast car doesn't make you a speeder, and having a machinegun won't make you a gangster. If you want to speed, you can manage it in a Dodge Colt, and if you want to rob a bank, you can manage it with a note to the teller and a hand in your jacket pocket.
Don't ban or restrict any machine. Just punish crimes, quickly and fairly. The rest will take care of itself if you do that right.
CJ

"Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they will learn why they fear the night."....Thulsa Doom

You sir are correct. Nobody needs a fully automatic weapon in the United States. Nobody needs to go to a church of their choice. Nobody needs to have the freedom to assemble. Nobody needs to be secure in their property. Nobody needs to be happy. Nobody needs to keep military out of their homes. Nobody needs to be protected from self incrimination.
They have the the God given right to all those things. So says the supreme law of this land.

Originally Posted By OmegaMan:
There's no reason why a private citizen needs a firearm that shoots 8, 15, 21, 50 or even HUNDREDS of lethal lead projectiles all with just a [u]single pull of the trigger[/u], and all with very little ability to carefully aim each of the individual, yet still highly deadly, projectiles in a controlled manner.

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It's funny listening to people that haven't ever shot machineguns before try to explain what it's like.

With a firearm like that, all you have to do is stand in front of the class or resturaunt and [b][red]"spray and spray and spray some more"[/red][/b].

Gotta agree with cmjohnson, 'criminalizing' inanimate objects and substances is simply cretinous. The votewhores KNOW that but use such 'laws' as control mechanisms on the sheeple.
Besides, 'need' has NOTHING to do with the legitimacy of inalienable Rights. 'Need' is simply a socialist crutch in an attempt to hold up a fallacious argument. The merits-or lack of-'need' is simply irrelevant. Ghost

Originally Posted By MaverickMkii:
It should be a little more difficult to obtain a machine gun, and you should be more heavily punished when you commit crime with it...but I think thats about it, no more restrictions.

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I can tell you've never tried to buy a machine gun, or even looked at the prices for them.
I can't speak for other machine guns, but I saw an M60 priced at $6000. I can't imagine anybody claiming that this is "low priced and readily available", just because there was one for sale.
Oh yeah, I forget to mention the Class Three junk paperwork and regulations, of which I am largely ignorant, because I can't afford it.

Are we having a philosophical discussion here, or am I being reprimanded?

On the History channel last week, one of the ‘history of the gun’ series, it reported that since 1934 only 1 crime has been committed [b]with[/b] a legally owned fully automatic weapon, and that was by a police officer.
So it would seem to be better to keep fully automatic weapons out of the hands of cops. [:D]
SSD

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
I can't speak for other machine guns, but I saw an M60 priced at $6000.

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Either it was a long time ago or you saw a post sample. I don't know if you can even touch an M60 these days for less than $15K. Hell, just an M16 at $6000 is a decent price. UZI's are hovering around the $4 - 4.5K.

Definately a dealer sample then. Here is one for sale right now for a mere $32,000
[url]http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=1822&query=retrieval[/url]
Here's another for only $30,000
[url]http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=29000[/url]

Originally Posted By OmegaMan:
There's no reason why a private citizen needs a firearm that shoots 8, 15, 21, 50 or even HUNDREDS of lethal lead projectiles all with just a [u]single pull of the trigger[/u], and all with very little ability to carefully aim each of the individual, yet still highly deadly, projectiles in a controlled manner.

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It's funny listening to people that haven't ever shot machineguns before try to explain what it's like.

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I have too shot machineguns. BIG ones too!

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

Originally Posted By OmegaMan:
With a firearm like that, all you have to do is stand in front of the class or resturaunt and [b][red]"spray and spray and spray some more"[/red][/b].

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Dude, it's a gun, not a bottle of Windex.
[red]Some of you people kill me![/red]

[i]"There's no reason why a private citizen needs a fully automatic weapon."[/i]
A typically ignorant comment from someone who doesn't understand, and is too arrogant and intolerant of others to want to understand anything beyond themselves and their "group".
If told that statement, I'd hit them with the same thing, starting out with .... [i]"The [b]only[/b] things that us as humans NEED are food, water, and shelter.
There's no reason for YOU to have what you have."[/i]
Thus starts a discussion that's going to be a big waste of your time.
Chris

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Actually, I believe our forefathers had the idea that a public armed as well as the government military would deter that same government from a tolatarian position.

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Oh yeah, that worked well in Iraq where every other camel jockey had an AK-47 stashed in his closet. It didn't affect the totalitarian regime nor did it lengthen the three weeks it took US forfces to overrun the country. Maybe that held water 200 years ago but in the age of tanks, jets and smart bombs, citizens with rifles are powerless.

Originally Posted By MaverickMkii:
It should be a little more difficult to obtain a machine gun, and you should be more heavily punished when you commit crime with it...but I think thats about it, no more restrictions.

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I can tell you've never tried to buy a machine gun, or even looked at the prices for them.
I can't speak for other machine guns, but I saw an M60 priced at $6000. I can't imagine anybody claiming that this is "low priced and readily available", just because there was one for sale.
Oh yeah, I forget to mention the Class Three junk paperwork and regulations, of which I am largely ignorant, because I can't afford it.

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Yes I haven't tried to buy them, nor I have money for that. But I know what it takes to buy a NFA firearm. As I said, if we had no more restrictions than that, there will be no conception of NFA and all automatic rifles, carbines and SMGs $$$ will drop and be more "affordable". M60 and M249s will drop but still these won't very affordable.
I know what I've said is kind of nonsense, any sane person will not use it to commit crime nor machinegun is more prone to "mass-killing". Sure it might break a few more windows. But I think the point is machine guns should be used more carefully. There are always whackos using them in bad manner.
I also admit my misconception about punishing more heavily when you commit crime with machine guns. My thought was if we did that people with MGs will restrain themselves from using them in crime. (which would only work for sane people, but sane people won't commit any crime with guns, so this is a moot point anyways)
(edited to add - thanks for observing my statements. I migrated 2 years ago and I think I still have remnants of demonratic values from my mother country. Trying to be conservative but still..you know.)

Originally Posted By OmegaMan:
There's no reason why a private citizen needs a firearm that shoots 8, 15, 21, 50 or even HUNDREDS of lethal lead projectiles all with just a [u]single pull of the trigger[/u], and all with very little ability to carefully aim each of the individual, yet still highly deadly, projectiles in a controlled manner.

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It's funny listening to people that haven't ever shot machineguns before try to explain what it's like.

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I have too shot machineguns. BIG ones too!

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I'm guessing that [b]Ponyboy[/b] said that because your comment is a typical one from someone who's only knowledge of these weapons is what they've seen on T.V.
BTW .... in mentioning your concern, are you referring to an actual incident in the States, of an automatic weapon being used to kill large numbers of people?
[i]Just a friendly suggestion[/i] .... it would probably help your argument considerably if you were able to provide details of your full-auto experience(s).
Chris

But I think thats because MGs are scarce and extremely expansive. That economical barrier keeps criminals in check, but it does harm to us too.
If there was no NFA, the first thing I would get is M203 for AR15, no questions asked. I still believe controlled semi-auto fire is more deadly than full automatic fire. But that doesn't mean you must not have MG. I'm just saying in terms of ammunition cost it is less effective. (but it does give you suppressive firepower)

Damn, I just paid for one last week and NOW I find out I don't NEED it. Guess I'll just have to live with my mistake.
Actually, if I were of the mind to "spray, spray, and spray some more" I wouldn't spend thousands of dollars, go see the Sheriff for his signature, get fingerprinted, send two photos and $200 to the BATF. I'd just take my baseball bat over to Ft Campell and beat the fuck out of some little Army girl and use one your tax dollars paid for. Much simpler and cheaper that way.

Machine guns ARE particularly suited to criminal misuse and should be subject to reasonable restrictions that restrict their possession. Like we did in Iraq, we must take a stand NOW to keep these weapons of mass destruction off the streets before innocent freedom loving americans are massacared.

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Machine guns ARE particularly suited to criminal misuse and should be subject to reasonable restrictions that restrict their possession. Like we did in Iraq, we must take a stand NOW to keep these weapons of mass destruction off the streets before innocent freedom loving americans are massacared.

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Welcome back, Imbroglio. I've missed you. [nuts]

Are we having a philosophical discussion here, or am I being reprimanded?

Originally Posted By MaverickMkii:
It should be a little more difficult to obtain a machine gun, and you should be more heavily punished when you commit crime with it...but I think thats about it, no more restrictions.

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THere has only been one crime comitted with a Legally registered Machine Gun since 1934. And that crime was comitted by a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER!!![/b]
Edited to add: SSD beat me to it

"A firearm is like a fine woman. You take care of it and it will take care of you. You don't take care of it and it can be a real Bitch."