My experience similar to Keith'sI do art shows and most (if not all) the on line purchases were from someone who saw my exhibit up close (large prints etc). They then chose one they liked and ordered it at their convenience.

The impact on the web is not the same as seeing it up close

However, other than fine art enlargements, there are other applications for photographs i.e. for print, advertising etc.

I received an email from a university wanting to use one of my images for their home page. I guess we need to use a little imagination?

The hardest part of making a living from photography for many people is possibly the business side of things. If you are going to be serious about it then you really do need to look at things like business plans and the like.

My landscape work is certainly subsidised to some extent by my commercial/event/PR photography.

One area I won't touch at all is wedding photography -- there lays the path to the dark side :-) :-)

Well I don't have a job, as I am in high school right now, but I really want to get into photography. But I only really want to do landscaping and wildlife. I hate the thought of taking pictures of people doing everyday stuff, it just doesn't seem like my thing, and portraits would be even worse.

Ideally what I was thinking was to get a day job (was thinking of being a doctor or surgeon) and then to take up photography as my hobby. The question is how much time does editing and taking picutres usually take? Also when it comes down to making money, say you were away for a week shooting, and you got in a normal amount of photos(dunno how many this would be). How many could you expect to sell, and on average how much would one go for?

Thank you all for answering my questions, i realize that money is always a sensitive issue, so its doubly apreciated.

Ideally what I was thinking was to get a day job (was thinking of being a doctor or surgeon) and then to take up photography as my hobby.

Merchant banking pays better. My advice to you though is to marry well; a mere doctor's wages won't support a P25!

Every few years I decide to try and make a go of landscape photography, and I can't make much money out of it. Now maybe that's because I'm not very good, or I don't like marketing, or whatever - but I suspect that as mentioned above it's really hard to make a living just shooting nature and wildlife.

It's good to follow your dreams, it's also good to have a plan B to fall back on to pay for food, clothes and that next L-series lens you just have to have.

As for a mentor-do I like the idea- YES! but its not practical. There is no way that I could pay, or that someone could give me the time to teach me what I need to learn. Like you may have noticed from my posts here -I ask about 50 questions a minute, and anyone would have to have extreme patience(I thank you for having it) to put up with me.

Stefan Tarnawsky

Part-time puts everything into perspective.

As an apprentice, you are expected to give back - grunt work - to repay your imposition on the mentor. It all works out.

I've been trying (not all to hard tho) to get a part-time and job and it hasn't worked out so well.

What do you mean by grunt work? Would that be pictures that I took on my own time to show to a mentor, or do I give him to rights to the photo? I'm just confused as to what you mean.

I like the idea, but I'd have to say that it would probably be unwise for me to think that it could happen, tho I'll give it some thought. How would I go to find someone like this in any case?

Thanks once again.

Grunt work: shipping prints, running errands, making coffee, cleaning the studio, packing the gear, holding the gobos/reflectors, calibrating the equipment, etc. In general this is assisting in non-picture taking chores that have to be done to repay for gratis tutoring. That is the foundation of apprenticeship. You would still need a job to support yourself, but the hours spent with your mentor could be incredibly fruitful and mutually beneficial.

To me the biggest problem with selling images online is how to equate the emotional impact of an A2 (or larger) print hanging on a wall in front of you with what you get on a web page. I've discussed this with several other pro photographers and the general feeling was that if anyone ever cracked it, then they would make a fortune :-)

I do sell a few prints directly from the web, but far more from direct exhibition. I've been told by a few customers that they saw one of my large prints and then browsed the web site before buying. A gallery owner in Wales told me that quite a few customers visited his web site, to see what was in stock, before travelling to the gallery.

If you do put your images on-line, there is also the trade off between quality/size of web image and the likelihood of images being stolen...

If you go the web sales route, be wary of anyone charging much to include your work in a 'gallery'. Ask for sales/visitor figures and the like, if the site owner is reticent or vague about this side of things, then think carefully before getting involved. Pay special attention to the copyright status of your work and any 'fine print' in the site T&Cs. Vanity publishing is not confined to books :-)

I realize that what I am asking is usually a touchy subject, please realize that I do not want to offend anyone.

I was hoping that someone could give me an estimate on how much money is in phoography. Not journalism and portraits but mostly wildlife and landscaping. I am considering it as a hobby, and was thinking that if I turned it into a job, how much would it make.

Also, do you guys have other jobs besides being photographers. And if so, how much time do you usually give to one job and how much does the photography part take up?

To make a living with photography (outside of commercial photograpy), one needs to deal in a variety of activities. Very, very few photographers do wildlife or landscapes, or any fine art photography, and make a living solely from picture sales. Most give seminars, conduct tours, write for magazines, teach photography, in additon to selling prints. Wildlife photography is very competitive, in addition to being very expensive, unless someone pays your way, and different and unusual shots usually take considerable time and resources to come by.

My suggestion is---unless you've inherited an extensive portfolio--don't quit your day job. If you don't have one, get one. It will at least subsidize your pixel/film vices, and, if you're successful with a photobusiness, it would give you more confidence in determining when it's time to jump into the deep end.

Again, this is my experience, but a lot depends on what you want as a life style and what you might be willing to give up to make a go at photography.

There is also the business side of things, and for me, this has always been the hardest. It's one thing to take pictures, good pictures, but its another thing to market them. I probably spend about 75% of my time on the marketing side--not that that's what I like to do, but that's what I have to do. Someone who's lucky enough to have an agent might be able to flip that number.

In any case, for someone that is just merging into the business, proceed with caution, get plenty of advise, and above all, keep it fun.

Landscape/wildlife photography is like acting in that there are very few people who actually make a living from it; the vast majority of landscape/wildlife photographers derive their primary income from other types of photography (weddings, portraits, commercial interiors, etc.) or else another career entirely. I've sold a few landscape prints, but my career total landscape print sales are still less than what I get from a typical wedding. I've gotten wedding work from people who liked my landscape prints, but they booked the wedding without buying any.

If you care about your photos, you can expect to spend at least as much time post-processing in Photoshop or whatever as you do actually shooting. Add more if you do your own printing, which is highly recommended if you want to control the entire process.

I do weddings to eat; the formal portraits are almost always a hassle with people wanting to shoot over your shoulder and complaining about how long it's taking and such. But I put up with the hassle because I usually get paid more per wedding than my lifetime total landscape print sales.

And yes, the business side of photography is way harder than the photography itself. Advertising, sales, marketing...I hate that crap, but it's absolutely vital to economic survival.

Well I don't have a job, as I am in high school right now, but I really want to get into photography. But I only really want to do landscaping and wildlife. I hate the thought of taking pictures of people doing everyday stuff, it just doesn't seem like my thing, and portraits would be even worse.

Ideally what I was thinking was to get a day job (was thinking of being a doctor or surgeon) and then to take up photography as my hobby. The question is how much time does editing and taking picutres usually take? Also when it comes down to making money, say you were away for a week shooting, and you got in a normal amount of photos(dunno how many this would be). How many could you expect to sell, and on average how much would one go for?

Thank you all for answering my questions, i realize that money is always a sensitive issue, so its doubly apreciated.

You know, this thought came to me, and I am probably out of line here, but who knows...

First off, all of the advice given is sound and worthy. Having been there, I couldn't agree more. KUdos to you folks that are living the dream.

But something unique to our new friend Stef struck me. Stef you appear to be a breath of fresh air from your generation. Someone like you may very well get a lot out of an apprentiship with a master. Your thinking and attitude are way ahead of lost in your generation. I detect you sinserely want to go about your vocation properly.

Perhaps, "paying your dues" is the answer.

Does anyone apprentice anymore? You live in Toronto. From what I am able to detect, that is the epicenter of the Luminous Universe. If I lived there I would try to hang with the modern-day masters and teachers. One fellow in particular comes to mind. I suggest you two hook up.

Thank you Bob for your vote of confidence, you have no clue what it means to me for someone to say what you did.

I at times like to think that I am ahead of my generation, at times I think its the other way around. What is clear to me in any case is that I want to do the things (ie photography) that unfortunately most kids my age wouldn't touch with a 40 foot pole.

As for a mentor-do I like the idea- YES! but its not practical. There is no way that I could pay, or that someone could give me the time to teach me what I need to learn. Like you may have noticed from my posts here -I ask about 50 questions a minute, and anyone would have to have extreme patience(I thank you for having it) to put up with me. The ideal solution would be simply to get into some photography classes, and try to learn as much as I can. That way, cost becomes less of an issue, and I should still learn quite a bit. But i am still a little ways away from that. First i need to learn more about the basics by reading books and asking annoying questions on forums .

Rob what is a P25 ad how much does it cost. I don't see how anything could make much more money then a surgeon-they make about 350K a year.

I was hoping that someone could give me an estimate on how much money is in phoography

I've heard of a wildlife photographer who routinely makes over $10,000 (US) per show (fine art or craft fair) and who made $35,000 at one show where a friend of mine (selling music) was set up next to him. He also sells lots of stuff for publication. I'm sure there's lots of photographers on the art/craft fair circuit that struggle with a day job and trying to break the $10,000 per year barrier with photography.

There's few cushy guaranteed high salary jobs for photographers and probably none whatsover for landscape photographers. With craft fairs it's easy enough to start making some money, but how much you make is up to YOU and the crap shoots of life, and it will take a lot of time and perseverance and bucking disappointment, tight finances, public indifference or rudeness, etc. Gallery shows or selling prints wholesale is even harder. There's just too many photographers, including many fairly good ones on the same crowded turf. We all wanna-be pros! Best to have contingency plans for making money with a day job for a while at least, while you work to develop your photography niche.

What do you call a musician/novelist/poet/landscape photographer without a girl friend? "Homeless".

There was a landscape photographer who won big time in a lottery and was asked if it would change his lifestyle and occupation and he said "Nah, I'll just keep doing photography until the money runs out".