People here in this forum are aware that there is a greater reality whilst in PMR. Then you 'die' but agree to come back later for another go. In your next incarnation would you be prone to find out about the greater reality sooner or would you just be that little bit more 'evolved' without any intuition about what has happened before?

Also Tom and Ted where do you think you are headed for after this incarnation especially with the knowledge about this?

Thanks,Peter

_________________------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Those who know do not talk.Those who talk do not know." - Tao Te Ching

Last edited by Peter on Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Not a clue. I have never traveled around in conscious OOBE as Tom has. I don't have and may never have Tom's direct ease of parallel processing and conscious connection with NPMR. I'm just experiencing a plan set up in advance with a lot of proclivities, interests and activities of value to understanding and information placed in my conscious when and as necessary. Stumbling along in the dark like everyone else until I appear to need to know something. I have a tendency to accept information and evaluate it, accept or reject it, even from unknown sources. I have a tendency to learn and function based on principles, the way things work, and to deal with some kind of logic about things. To see when there is a hole in a model or description and somehow pull the pieces together that would logically fill that hole. I have had a fair amount of personal experience with neurological type consciousness problems, in myself or in others by fairly obvious plan, and have experienced possibilities and anomalies regarding possible changes to perception, consciousness. This, along with many widely known anomalies within PMR have led me to readily understand this PMR experience as a virtual reality. And I'm more tired of PMR and the constant problems and way it works and most of the people in it than anything right now. But as the poem goes, I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep.

But one of Tom's latest posts should tell you a lot. He does not often reveal this kind of information. This was in the thread 'Seth books' at this link viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2721&p=4507#p4507 He clearly states that writing MBT was planned "well before the beginning of this experience packet" plus other fascinating hints. But Tom had to go through the long learning and testing experience in PMR that he describes in MBT. And either Tom has continued to learn and/or gain access to prior knowledge in NPMR, as the most probable situation, or he, like I, have been induced to repress certain information depending on circumstances. Not everyone is prepared or their plan does not permit access to information at a given time. So Tom doesn't provide any special information to me to explain my NPMR past as and if he has come to know it. That is for me to learn to access it, if that is part of my personal plan. But clearly Tom is recovering or has recovered full access to his NPMR experience. And I don't stumble along so totally (just relatively) in the dark as I once did.

So what knowledge you have in a new PMR experience packet is a matter of preplanning and your development within that life. But whatever entropy reduction you manage is retained within your Intent and is the basis upon which you operate the next time and at any time in fact. And what your next plan might be like is not something any of us are likely to know here. It is after all the future. There are great subtleties to entropy reduction and development of your being that are not obvious here in PMR. You cannot be sure what you may, with guidance, conclude is best for your development in your next packet, nor what you will be asked to attempt based on the needs of the greater system. AUM is an open ended system with no pre planned end state of perfection or otherwise. It is and will remain a dynamic balance of (sometimes opposing) free wills in an evolutionary process with entropy reducing features. While there is obviously a great deal of planning going on with all sorts of groups with an oar in the water, there is no PLAN or official course for the boat, only a lot of plans, including your own for your own personal development, all subject to gang aft aglee. Fortunately there is also an over riding Intent to maintain stability or better put, dynamic equilibrium.

Ted: I'm just experiencing a plan set up in advance with a lot of proclivities, interests and activities of value to understanding and information placed in my conscious when and as necessary.

I wanted to start a website for fun and say that I could actually do it ;-) Photography is my interest but after a couple of weeks of toying with the idea and a few test runs I felt an urge to write about 'stilling' the mind. I read Eckhart Tolle's books and thought I'd follow suite in a small way. Two months later my Father passed away(He wasn't sick when I started the site) and having that website was a great tool for peace in my life at the time. I look back and think why did I start the site on that subject at that time ? Fate? The way you describe it could have been all ready to go, a plan:) I don't know but it has led me here so I am happy now...

_________________------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Those who know do not talk.Those who talk do not know." - Tao Te Ching

Peter: "In your next incarnation would you be prone to find out about the greater reality sooner or would you just be that little bit more 'evolved' without any intuition about what has happened before?"

Tom answered something similar a short while ago when Cherie asked...

"One thing I would like to know is, if "progress" is carried over to the higher self how easy is it to lose that progress by a future experience packet? How safetly integrated is it into the overall structure of consciousness? Can it be lost?

Do we start another PMR adventure with a profit and loss account that can be backdated? It seems to me if you make a monumental effort in one "Life" because you happen to be lucky enough to come across material such as the stuff we find here thanks to Tom and Ted and all other contributers and next time you fail to access this knowledge and are subject to really difficult circumstances(really strong cultural conditiong etc) then how can one maintain momentum and continue to grow? Or is it just that I am putting a linear configuration on growth?"

Tom: "One can de-evolve but it isn't easy and one has to work at it. Two steps forward and one step back is not that uncommon -- but taking many steps backward in a row is very uncommon."

Peter: In your next PMR incarnation would you be prone to find out about the greater reality sooner or would you just be that little bit more 'evolved' without any intuition about what has happened before?

Tom: You may find out sooner because you are that "little bit more evolved" and therefore more open as well as less trapped by belief and less self focused. As that "little bit more evolved" accumulates over many incarnations you should definitely have a sense of the greater reality sooner. However, you won't just incarnate here with full knowledge -- you must "figure it out" each time -- that is simply the way the rule-set works.

In old new age (Neo Age?) speak one drank from a well of forgetting before coming back, or something like that. Ted talks about, and I concur, children just learning to speak say things about past lives. Adults usually don't listen or believe, I think. This western society shush and shape children's approved thoughts, imo.

When I was a young child, we were travelling to see my father's family the next state over and passed a cemetary. For some reason or another, I apparently stated that my parent's were buried there. Past life memory? Who knows. I was very little then and don't really remember even saying it. Strange thing for a little child to say.

Another time in a partially remembered dream, I was in a strange city with someone I know in this life. It seemed like it was taking place in a different time period due to the clothes. I was semi lucid and was questioning this and was told it was in Florence, Italy during the 1600's (the year was specific, I can't recall it right now). It was very interesting.

Now, with all that in mind, I am still slightly confused. If Ted's thread is correct and that we _are_ our higher self already, with any changes in entropy immediately affecting the higher self, then I can understand that. The problem comes in when I try to reconcile the seeming paradox of the higher self's sentience with my own sentience. Then, to add on top of all that, that when we incarnate again in another PMR we forget who we are, something just isn;t clicking for me.

Here are my questions:
1. What is the experience from the point of view of, let's say, Tom after death. What happens from his perspective? Also, what happens from the perspective of Tom's higher self? Is there a difference?

2. Is the forgetting during the next incarnation akin to branching off the basic "stuff" of consciousness of the higher self and letting a new personality evole or is it more like Tom, as he is now, forgetting all about himself and "Waking up" in a new PMR body? If it is the latter, that to me seems like the end of the personality and analogous with nothingness after death.

I feel like the penny is close to dropping, but it isn't quite there yet.

I think your problem is in believing that you are a separate entity with a separate existence from your over-soul or higher self. You are not. You are one consciousness entity multiprocessing several experiences -- one of which is your interaction in PMR. Say you go to a party (where no one knows you) dressed as a wealthy cowboy and tell everyone you own the biggest ranch in Montana. When you get home and assume your normal identity and burn your cowboy outfit, do you mourn for the death of the rich cowboy who has now just gone off into nothingness and oblivion? Are the experiences he had and what he learned from them all smoke and ashes. Of course not -- that's silly -- it was just you -- all the cowboy's experiences are your experiences -- whatever he learned, you learned simultaneously. The only thing gone is the potential to continue interacting as that character with those particular people at this time within that context. You (without a lot of embarrassing explaining to do) just can't walk into those relationships in his place, but the interaction experienced gained from those relationships belongs to you. The cute girl that asked the rich cowboy to call her the next day - damn! Opportunity gone. Oh well, there are plenty more. A new party every weekend. The only thing missing is the cowboy's potential future interactions and experiences - you have everything else. No point mourning the cowboy because the cowboy is just you and you are feeling mellow and good thinking about what you are going to wear to the next party. Maybe you will go as yourself. But then who is yourself? Are you not just the sum total of all your experiences - including the cowboy experiences? It is all you. Nothing disappears into nothingness. As growth takes place, old potential recycles as new potential. You know, that cowboy did pretty well at that last party - learned a whole lot - maybe I will go as a cowboy to the next party too - then maybe a cow girl. Maybe I could do both at once. Hmmmm.

The PMR rule-set requires that you are only allowed into the PMR VR as a "physical" body that is programmed with your individual potential. That individual potential among other things (such as any plans made) will reflect the quality of your consciousness and must be represented in physical matter within, say, your virtual CNS (brain). That's it -- a body with potential -- 100% physical (no data or memory from other times and other places -- just potential - that's all you are allowed to bring with you under the rule-set. From there on out, burdened with no baggage of fears, and beliefs from the past, you are on your own to develop that potential the best you can.

Tom: The PMR rule-set requires that you are only allowed into the PMR VR as a "physical" body that is programmed with your individual potential. That individual potential among other things (such as any planes made) will reflect the quality of your consciousness and must be represented in physical matter within, say, your CNS (brain). That's it -- a body with potential -- 100 physical (no data or memory from other times and other places -- just potential - that's all you are allowed to bring with you under the rule-set. From there on out, burdened with no baggage of fears, and beliefs from the past, you are on your own to develop that potential the best you can.

Peter: But can in some cases, important healing to this life stuff, can be brought up during past life regression?

Thanks, Peter

_________________------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Those who know do not talk.Those who talk do not know." - Tao Te Ching

Past life progression takes you beyond what is within the reach of your normal awareness -- as does meditation. In such altered states of consciousness you reach beyond the physical and tap into the larger conscious self. Indeed, that is the whole point of meditation -- to gain awareness beyond what is embodied in the physical.

Tom,Thanks for the reply. I understand your party/cowboy analogy, the sticking point is just the "blanking" of memory on the PMR incarnation.

Looking at it another way, the PMR incarnation would be additive to overall higher self, so the blanking of memories is temporary for that incarnation (at least in the beginning). This gives a more productive opportunity for growth, since any old habits (good or bad) are done away with, providing a true clean slate.

From the perspective of the higher self, in NPMR land, memories are retained and the new PMR incarnation, depending on the growth path, is allowed to regain these memories/experience packets, but it isn't necessary or automatic by any means.

If the new incarnation doesn't access any of these experience packets or have any working knowledge of the higher self, would the death be almost like a great remembering to coincide with the forgetting that happened at the beginning of the incarnation?

OK, let me give you a more straight up model -- out of elementary school and into graduate school -- I hope this doesn't replace what you thought you understood with more confusion. If it does, forget I ever said it.

If you put the cowboy suit back on does the cowboy experience a great remembering? Of course not, the cowboy does not exist as a separate being -- it is just you pretending to be a cowboy.

There is no death -- just like the cowboy didn't die -- he was just virtual -- not real -- the physical isn't real, it is virtual. YOU are playing a data stream computer game that produces experience (the best teacher) and have just decided to change YOUR character's outfit (called a "meatsuit"). Nobody dies. YOUR character in the game is limited to work within the games rule-set. That character (you) is a projection of a copy of a portion of YOUR content, a part of YOU (the big YOU), a virtual characterization of YOU constrained by a rule-set -- a virtual alter ego -- working to become an alter no-ego. Little you is actually the big YOU in a constrained cowboy disguise, stop identifying with the little virtual you that doesn't really exist except as a virtual character in a computer game. YOU occasionally switch the virtual character's meatsuits to gain different experience and continue to play the game because YOU learn so much from it since the constraints of the rule-set simplify experience, interaction and feedback to a more effective level for learning. Nothing dies, your characters don't die, they are just virtual - virtual characters can't die, they are made up for the game, they are not real. Constraints come and go on a portion of YOUR content, that's all, and only during the coprocessing time share. YOU are real, not virtual, YOU are consciousness -- the sum of all YOUR virtual and non virtual experiences. YOU are using multiprocessing to send you (a portion of YOU) to a private school with rigid rules while YOU stay home and play computer games -- how sweet is that. You who are really YOU are identifying with the wrong you.

After all that, your mind is probably blown away and twice as confused. I don't put it this way very often because it is more that most people are conceptually prepared to deal with. Other models are warmer and fuzzier and make you feel more . well, real... and important... and special. Enough of this convoluted horsepucky -- Get real!

Tom: There is no death -- just like the cowboy didn't die -- he was just virtual -- not real -- the physical isn't real, it is virtual. YOU are playing a data stream computer game that produces experience (the best teacher) and have just decided to change YOUR character's outfit (called a "meatsuit"). Nobody dies.

Peter: Love the "meatsuit" you made me chuckle
I am following what you are saying Tom :-)

Questions: Do we always go back to put on the another "meatsuit" or do we change for some other reality frequently ? This 'earth' has been reported by regressed people to be special and demanding because it has so many rules mental and physical. I think they have claimed it to be one of if not the most challenging.
So with a question I posted before about the mathematics of reincarnation viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2833 you could say that there are people that have never been to this PMR before? and if so they must be finding it very hard ? or as I suspect there must be realities just like here "everywhere"

thanks,
Peter

_________________------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Those who know do not talk.Those who talk do not know." - Tao Te Ching

I understand that Big I and Virtual I (VI) are one. It would be the same, as during one given day each of us has many roles to play: spouse, parent, child, employee, customer, etc. Each role brings us knowledge and experience. All of them are one VI living his/her present life in PMR. A part of Big I functions to help and guide VI. What is Big I learning process in NPMR? I remember reading about soul retrievals. What does Big I do if after a death VI is not able to return to Big I because of VI's PMR beliefs? Is this segment of Big I lost and will be discarded? Would it be considered as an unsuccessful PMR life, and will be analyzed by Big I to ovoid this kind of results in a future?

Thank you,Lena

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_________________'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

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