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My wife and I are in the market to get a piano, less than 5’6” in length, in which a player (with recording strip) will be installed. Because of where we live – Las Vegas, only one on our preliminary list of candidates is being shown by a local dealer. Consequently, a lot of our evaluation work has been Internet-based or has been derived from primarily this forum, Piano Buyer, other somewhat similar forums, and videos on YouTube, etc.

Since cost is an important consideration, we have concluded that the best values available – in new pianos, for sure – are represented by the premier lines of pianos manufactured in China. Accordingly, we came up with the following:

To see all but the Weber requires a road trip of 200+ miles, except for the Cunnningham, which, being Philadelphia-based, cannot be viewed/heard directly at all. To reduce this list to a more manageable group – which was extremely hard to do – we read everything and listened to every video we could find. For better or worse, our “finalists” are Cunningham, Perzina and Ritmuller.

All of these are fine pianos, no doubt, and the decision of which to purchase is challenging. Accordingly, I decided to post this description of our effort to date as a background to the asking of feedback on a couple of issues –

1. Have we missed one which really should be a finalist?2. What are the most important criteria to use in making the ultimate choice?

Concerning the Cunningham, you might contact Rich Galassini at Cunningham. Occasionally, there is an owner in a given locality who is willing to let a potential buyer try out their piano. It's worth a try.

I like the Cunninghams very much, and at the price, they are next to impossible to beat.

I think you already found excellent candidates for your budget. While you will go see those pianos, make sure to test all other affordable ones that happen to be in showrooms as well, as you never know.

About the criteria, it's different for everyone. Of course, since we can't all own a top tier instrument (I certainly don't myself), it's a matter of compromise. I would say that the most important is 1) the timbre and 2) the touch when you play the piano - and take your time to test them. Play similar test pieces and/or patterns on them - to evaluate dynamics, timbre, sustain, etc the same way on all pianos.

Personally (and of course you can have totally different criteria), I find that timbre, general feel of the keyboard and sustain are the most important. Not so important for me are specs, finish and little things that can be fixed with regulation. Same with "reliability" of brand name - most new pianos come with a 10-year warranty anyway.

Again, take your time testing all candidates, enjoy the buying process, and keep us posted.

Thank you all for your responses. Allow me to reply to those comments.

First, of course we began by looking in our local area (Las Vegas). Unfortunately, our city is casino-focused, not culturally so. As a consequence, there are only three dealers in a radius of 150 miles who sell pianos. The only new piano brands sold here are the Steinway family, Story & Clark, Seiler, Petrof, Yamaha, Kawai and, occasionally, a new Pearl River (which is how we saw the Weber). That is it! Finis. Believe me, if we could buy locally, we would.

My wife hasn't played in five years, and I in nearly 50. At present we have a digital keyboard for "playing around". She would like to begin again; also, she used to be a professional singer and sometime songwriter, which is why we are getting a record feature on our player.

Regarding the player, that is why I am primarily motivated to get as good a piano as we can afford. I want to listen to "live" piano performances in my home. The room in which the piano will reside is large, with high ceilings. Unfortunately, two walls are essentially all glass and the others largely stone, with some sheet rock; the floor is tile. Understandably, even with a rug placed under the piano, I am concerned about brightness and reflective sound. That is why we are seeking out -- we hope -- pianos with a more mellow treble energy level.

Weber is a Young Chang brand and is made (according to Piano Buyer) in YC's own factory in Tianjin.

Before dismissing Weber or Albert Weber (Korean made), make sure you've tried some of the models designed by Del Fandrich. One of the stated design goals was that they have a slightly less imposing, controllable and musical sound (than the current norm). I hope I'm not misquoting when I say, "Made for the living room and not the concert hall."

Kurt

_________________________
One who does what the Friend wants donewill never need a friend.

Really? Which pianos did you play? Because when I played their shorter grand, my impression was that it's like a Kawai, with a better dynamic range.

The dealer had the Hailun 151cm through 178 (5'10). Which series of Kawai do you mean, their entry level GE/GM series or RX/GX?

Perhaps it competes with the GE/GM, but I don't think they come anywhere close to the RX/GX. The Hailun's still had a "budget" feel to them. The tone was, for lack of a fancy word, just wasn't pretty. Call it colors, signing, whatever..., but was just a very basic, entry-level, budget tone. Judith Cohen had a similar impression in her review on PB. Sure the bass isn't as tubby as some of the cheap pianos, they softened up the hammers so it's mellow, but the underlying tone just doesn't make you go "ahhh...." Don't get me wrong, it wasn't offensive or harsh, just wasn't pretty.

What also stood out was the key tops. They were slightly yellow, semi-transparent, and reminded me of this really low-end Zimmerman piano I played 20+ years ago. The sharps seemed proportionately too wide. It just left me with a really rough, unrefined, budget impression. Little nitpicks in the "furniture" filter, I thought the harp wasn't very attractive: the shape/design and the color of the finish.

The one at the dealer had some sticky dampers which the dealer attributed to the humidity, but this is in California and we've been having this terrible drought. Outside humidity is in the 20's. I took it as rough factory prep.

The dealer also had Weber's and Young Chang's. I was also interested in the YC's since Del Fandrich designed them, but the dealer said Del didn't design them, but was consulted for some design tips/changes. Well, perhaps it was better than the old YC's, but it still didn't seem to pull it out of that entry-level category.

For me, the Hailun was noticeably nicer than the Weber and YC.

PB has the Hailun "Vienna in the same tier has Kawai RX/GX, Yamaha C/Cx, but Hailun seems to have pulled the "Vienna" series from their website. And this one didn't have the "V" on the model number. Maybe Norbert is right and the Chinese companies are only feeding the West their scraps.

Maybe Norbert is right and the Chinese companies are only feeding the West their scraps.

Well, sometimes scaps can taste pretty good...

From my own observation the top Chinese companies today are definitely aiming at the next level. They sometimes display their newly developed higher lines on trade shows like NAMM and elsewhere. Certainly getting attention there...

As you can see from the above, everybody feels differently about what they hear from similar pianos. We all hear different things and have our preferences. A lot of bias creeps into our opinions -- particularly when we have spent a fair amount of money on the piano that we purchased. So go and try out whatever you can, and form your own opinion. Do not let opinions on the net decide what's right for you. And do not buy a piano that you have not actually heard. I will say this though -- I think the Ritmuller 170 that I bought sounds great. It has a much more mellow sound than most other pianos I have listened to. I won't be surprised if some find it far too mellow.

... The dealer also had Weber's and Young Chang's. I was also interested in the YC's since Del Fandrich designed them, but the dealer said Del didn't design them, but was consulted for some design tips/changes. Well, perhaps it was better than the old YC's, but it still didn't seem to pull it out of that entry-level category.

Interesting. Would you mind sending me the name of that dealer? Some misinformation needs to be corrected.

Really? Which pianos did you play? Because when I played their shorter grand, my impression was that it's like a Kawai, with a better dynamic range.

Which series of Kawai do you mean, their entry level GE/GM series or RX/GX?

Perhaps it competes with the GE/GM, but I don't think they come anywhere close to the RX/GX. The Hailun's still had a "budget" feel to them. The tone was, for lack of a fancy word, just wasn't pretty. Call it colors, signing, whatever..., but was just a very basic, entry-level, budget tone. Judith Cohen had a similar impression in her review on PB.

Judith Cohen has the same criticism for every piano she plays, because she is expecting a Steinway. She would have similar criticisms with Kawai, because it's not a Steinway.

I've spent many years playing different models of Kawai, from small uprights to medium sized grands and even the Shigeru. When I play any piano, I try to bring out it's natural beauty. Most pianos made these days have at least something beautiful about them.

The first time I played a Hailun, I thought, "oh, this is a Kawai!" Then I realized, "oh, there are some differences." There are some differences, but they are both quality pianos in their price range. I have my preference but that's a personal thing.

Not wanting to tell you how to suck eggs,but take your ears along to the piano showroom and really listen to the sound of the piano;

Bass;Is it rich and resonant and is the sound clean,or does it sound like someone has their hands around the singer's throat.Are their lots of bad harmonics in the sound.

Mid register;Is it pure.Play single notes and not fists full with the pedal down.

Treble;Does it ring like little bells.Does it have a nice percussive attack.

How does the piano respond to your requests for pp and ff.How readily does it do fast repetition trills/ornaments etc.Is there a real pp tone and a significant ff.

Difficult in the lower price ranges I know,but do not give up.Take your time.Listen to the salesperson but take your time and really listen to the piano.There should not be a need these days to jump into a special sale opportunity that is about to finish in two days time.

Good luck.Are there any pre-owned pianos around for you to have a look at?Don't forget to get your chosen one checked by an independent technician.(The piano,not your partner)

A few weeks ago I finally got around to playing the well hyped Hailun. Not impressed. Not sure why people keep saying they're going to take Yamaha and Kawai's lunch, they're nowhere close IMO.

Really? Which pianos did you play? Because when I played their shorter grand, my impression was that it's like a Kawai, with a better dynamic range.

That's a strange impression considering the action and tone of those two pianos is completely different. Goes to show you how subjective our impressions of pianos are and the inherent danger in asking for advice from others on these forums...

A few weeks ago I finally got around to playing the well hyped Hailun. Not impressed. Not sure why people keep saying they're going to take Yamaha and Kawai's lunch, they're nowhere close IMO.

Really? Which pianos did you play? Because when I played their shorter grand, my impression was that it's like a Kawai, with a better dynamic range.

That's a strange impression considering the action and tone of those two pianos is completely different. Goes to show you how subjective our impressions of pianos are and the inherent danger in asking for advice from others on these forums...

Yes, I've been trying to figure out why I felt that way, but I can only harass the poor Hailun dealer so many times before he wants me to buy

A few weeks ago I finally got around to playing the well hyped Hailun. Not impressed. Not sure why people keep saying they're going to take Yamaha and Kawai's lunch, they're nowhere close IMO.

Really? Which pianos did you play? Because when I played their shorter grand, my impression was that it's like a Kawai, with a better dynamic range.

That's a strange impression considering the action and tone of those two pianos is completely different. Goes to show you how subjective our impressions of pianos are and the inherent danger in asking for advice from others on these forums...

Yes, I've been trying to figure out why I felt that way, but I can only harass the poor Hailun dealer so many times before he wants me to buy

Wouldn't it be interesting if manufacturers left off their names, or any other identifying marks on their pianos (including designer, country of completion), and consumers were forced to use their ears and fingers to make a choice, rather than pre-conceived notions?! You'd be surprised (or maybe not) at the number of "musicians" and piano buyers who become incensed if you suggest they listen in a blind comparison of instruments.

Wouldn't it be interesting if manufacturers left off their names, or any other identifying marks on their pianos (including designer, country of completion), and consumers were forced to use their ears and fingers to make a choice, rather than pre-conceived notions?! You'd be surprised (or maybe not) at the number of "musicians" and piano buyers who become incensed if you suggest they listen in a blind comparison of instruments.

Oh, you evil heretic, you! What are you trying to do -- end life on Earth as we know it?

Wouldn't it be interesting if manufacturers left off their names, or any other identifying marks on their pianos (including designer, country of completion), and consumers were forced to use their ears and fingers to make a choice, rather than pre-conceived notions?! You'd be surprised (or maybe not) at the number of "musicians" and piano buyers who become incensed if you suggest they listen in a blind comparison of instruments.

A few weeks ago I finally got around to playing the well hyped Hailun. Not impressed. Not sure why people keep saying they're going to take Yamaha and Kawai's lunch, they're nowhere close IMO.

Really? Which pianos did you play? Because when I played their shorter grand, my impression was that it's like a Kawai, with a better dynamic range.

That's a strange impression considering the action and tone of those two pianos is completely different. Goes to show you how subjective our impressions of pianos are and the inherent danger in asking for advice from others on these forums...

Yes, I've been trying to figure out why I felt that way, but I can only harass the poor Hailun dealer so many times before he wants me to buy

Wouldn't it be interesting if manufacturers left off their names, or any other identifying marks on their pianos (including designer, country of completion), and consumers were forced to use their ears and fingers to make a choice, rather than pre-conceived notions?! You'd be surprised (or maybe not) at the number of "musicians" and piano buyers who become incensed if you suggest they listen in a blind comparison of instruments.

Can you imagine if everything in the consumer goods world where like this?People would be forced to educate themselves and develop a sense of character and a set of personal standards. Yikes! Thank you Coca cola, Prada, and MTV for herding us all into the nice and toasty warmth of your flock...