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I mostly heard bad and negative impressions around rebuild of evangelion and a friend told me that NHK was kinda hated around anime fans

well, for me :
NHK was a superb anime of 24 episodes (or 26 , i dont remember well) wich was talking about a young guy with a big potential but too shy and too stupid sometimes
I loved NHK because all the comedy thing (the dream interpretation and the online girlfriend video game twist )
Also NHK had a great opening with great animations in episodes, so what the hell is wrong with people about this HIT?
Maybe there is no final great twist but the anime have a great ending for me , very very very touching and beautiful and realistic!

For rebuild , i mostly heard critiques about anno (again-_-) , but honestly , at least the animation and the screenplay works wasn't superb?
Maybe the scenario was kinda weird with all those little scenario new things like the vatican thing

anyway the second rebuild movie was impressive and crazy , i can't wait for quickening now.

I mostly heard bad and negative impressions around rebuild of evangelion and a friend told me that NHK was kinda hated around anime fans

NHK is hated because it is an extremely poor adaptation by Gonzo. They altered a number of plot elements and added terrible filler* in the latter half. The animation quickly went downhill and it suffered from all the typical problems with a Gonzo production.

*To defeat the argument in advance that "People are just bitter that it didn't follow the story", the filler is so bad that people who had no familiarity with the original could tell the difference in the writing quality.

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Also NHK had a great opening with great animations in episodes, so what the hell is wrong with people about this HIT?

Overall, the animation was somewhere between poor and terrible. I seem to recall there are entire episodes where the keyframes have major errors and there was one episode where nothing moved for over half the episode.

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Maybe there is no final great twist but the anime have a great ending for me , very very very touching and beautiful and realistic!

Because they actually left their own filler and basically followed the original for the ending.

I found it to be a rather insightful exploration of one NEETs progressive downward spiral of his mental and functional capacities as his clear psychological issues drive him away from people and further down his schizophrenic pit. Likewise of a girl's questionable motivations (she probably has borderline personality disorder) in trying to "correct" him when she herself has her own psychological problems. More so as a depiction of the problems of the mentally imbalanced where strict normalcy and adherence in society drive them deeper and deeper into their own personal spaced, unable to interact with a society that refuses to accept and help them.

Yeah , it's seems that it was because it was an adaptation then
I didnt knew myself xd , i was thinking it was original anime from gonzo XD

bayoab
For the fillers? really , since i dont know the original creation, i cant compare but i loved overall the episodes , the old friend of the hero who became a weird girl with a weird society with a rich boss with a nice car (and the employee was like braindead seriously, that was scary)
The long nice haired girl who wanted to commit suicide with some other guys that she met into internet , damnit , this episode was thrilling awesome for me!

For the animation, okay , maybe in my souvenir , the animation was nice and maybe if i see that again today i'll notice it.

Are you a gonzo hater? because the thing i loved with gonzo production was that their ending for their show was always(mostly) GREAT!
and not show with a shitty ending wich have nonsense

So if they used the manga for the ending of NHK , then it was a great and smart choice

I loved Gonzo , they were great for me even if they can probably can't reach the quality and the aura of Gainax or Bones, they were very productive and serious.

Did you saw Yukikaze? it was for me awesomeness, and the end was epic too
It was the only serious contender for Macross Zero !

I was always under the impression that Welcome to the NHK was well received. Everywhere I look I see high scores for it. I agree that the animation wasn't the best and there wasn't enough character development for my taste but still... I wish I could see more shows of this quality.

I can't comment on Rebuild... the series and End movies were a bit too much for me.

I've actually read and heard much more praise for Rebuild of Evangelion than I've read and heard criticism of it. But then, maybe that's based on the particular anime fans that I tend to talk with the most (i.e. most of them tend to have nothing against remakes whatsoever).

Rebuild, well it's generally well received. Complaints can be found in that appropriate thread and anything I think about it can be found there. But a lot of it can be attributed cramming a rather complex story like Evangelion into a movie format.

And no, not all the fans of the show are sadists who want to see the characters suffer.

But I'm also guessing that it's kinda disappointing. Are they bad films? Of course not. But did they stand out to the original series to me? Not really, I don't think it did anything new to hold its own in this day in age; I was far more blown away with the Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya.

@bayoab - Ignorance must really be bliss then because I saw almost none of the problems you've pontificated on...If anything I initially thought it might have a backlash because it portrayed the otaku//hikkikimoru's so accurate it would make that same audience (self-aware audience) not like some of what they've become (or portrayed as becoming)...

To me this show was excellent in it's mix of realism and tragic comedy...And every so often (if rarely) something betrays the original source material (or intentions) and still winds up being outstanding (Kare Kano would also fit here IMO)..Welcome to the NHK is one of these properties...I too thought this show was well-received, but if it's just me that's cool because it's one of my alltime favs...

Rebuild, well it's generally well received. Complaints can be found in that appropriate thread and anything I think about it can be found there. But a lot of it can be attributed cramming a rather complex story like Evangelion into a movie format.

I was under the impression that a lot of the people who disliked Eva 1.0/2.0 disliked the fact that the characters are no longer tremendous f***-ups because it meant it didn't have the same message or flavour as the original... I can't speak for the original's artistic merit, but I have to admit I definitely find the more human characters this time around more appealing.

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Originally Posted by wingdarkness

@bayoab - Ignorance must really be bliss then because I saw almost none of the problems you've pontificated on...If anything I initially thought it might have a backlash because it portrayed the otaku//hikkikimoru's so accurate it would make that same audience (self-aware audience) not like some of what they've become (or portrayed as becoming)...

Eh, to be honest, I've found human beings in general to be pretty good at saying "Thank God I'm not that bad" when they encounter scathing portrayals of behaviour they exhibit. Wouldn't surprised me if otaku were no different.

Plus, this is hardly the only instance of otaku being brutal on what they consider a bad adaptation. Just compare the opinions of people who did and didn't play the Umineko visual novel before watching the anime and then look at the anime's sales relative to what you'd expect from such a well known franchise.

I've seen this behaviour from a few North American comic book fans and even Lord of the Rings fans too... but Hollywood movies have a huge casual audience whereas anime if highly reliant on the source material's hardcore fans for sales.

I was under the impression that a lot of the people who disliked Eva 1.0/2.0 disliked the fact that the characters are no longer tremendous f***-ups because it meant it didn't have the same message or flavour as the original... I can't speak for the original's artistic merit, but I have to admit I definitely find the more human characters this time around more appealing.

Well that's part of it. But not exactly. The thing was that characters had fairly complex psychological profiles that really couldn't be gone in depth with the movies, or that they even tried. Does such a character study require everyone be fucked in the head? Possibly, but I don't think so.

There's also other criticisms such as introducing a new character that seems to be nothing more than pointless fanservice, taking up time that is already in short supply. And in a way, the 2nd movie in particular just feels like mostly fanservice. Enjoyable fanservice, but that doesn't change anything.

Now, I have nothing against new Shinji anyways. There's just not that much to talk about the other people. Well except...

Spoiler for 2.0:

Asuka seemed to take a huge dip, being shafted in screen time and thus even worse development. The other thing is that her behavior feels caricatured into an obnoxious tsundere type complete with baka baka baka. Which doesn't settle well into a character type that I find annoying to begin with, heh.

Plus, this is hardly the only instance of otaku being brutal on what they consider a bad adaptation. Just compare the opinions of people who did and didn't play the Umineko visual novel before watching the anime and then look at the anime's sales relative to what you'd expect from such a well known franchise.

That's not my point at all, just that I hadn't heard of this (apparent backlash) until now...And to your first point, I think one of the reasons NHK was so strong was that it's portrayal of this existing world (The "Thank God I'm not that bad" -World) was stark while still being pretentious enuff for laffs...One of those fine lines that's hard to accomplish, so yeah I think that some people could be turned off by the fact they live the NHK life and it might be kinda sad without as many laffs...

Are you a gonzo hater? because the thing i loved with gonzo production was that their ending for their show was always(mostly) GREAT!
and not show with a shitty ending wich have nonsense

I don't dislike Gonzo's stuff in general but their mid-life reputation is definitely well deserved.

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Originally Posted by wingdarkness

@bayoab - Ignorance must really be bliss then because I saw almost none of the problems you've pontificated on...If anything I initially thought it might have a backlash because it portrayed the otaku//hikkikimoru's so accurate it would make that same audience (self-aware audience) not like some of what they've become (or portrayed as becoming)...

I've never seen any dislike toward NHK for being too close to realistic.

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To me this show was excellent in it's mix of realism and tragic comedy...And every so often (if rarely) something betrays the original source material (or intentions) and still winds up being outstanding (Kare Kano would also fit here IMO)..Welcome to the NHK is one of these properties...I too thought this show was well-received, but if it's just me that's cool because it's one of my alltime favs...

The story in general and the various characters and stuff are well received from what I can tell. It really just was how Gonzo ended up handling it. It really couldn't have been animated fully faithfully anyway due to content. Regardless, some of the early changes that Gonzo made really didn't bother people. (The very beginning of the first episode is supposed to involve hallucinogenic drugs... that's removed.) Then came the episode 4's 作画崩壊 and the various other problems associated with "Gonzo QUALITY."

Rebuild of Evangelion 2.0 is a travesty in the franchise that is Evangelion. It destroys the characters, drops many of its themes and plot points, and borders on trying to become your typical hotblooded mecha series.

I'm going to quote some of my old posts from the Rebuild thread to help explainw hy.

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Anno's intentions in "REIMAGINING" this series are not clear whatsoever.

Is he just trying to change up his older series? Perhaps create a new conclusion?

Is he simply trying to line his pockets with cash?

Is he just using an old good idea to explore totally new concepts?

Does he expect his old fans to fuel the fire for these movies?

Does he expect new fans to rise? Or both?

Am I as an Evangelion fan over the years supposed to be feeling like this is a treat?

Or am I as an Evangelion fan over years not even considered in the equation beyond money?

Personally I have trouble believing that we are supposed to take Rebuild as something totally new. Anno, or at least the producers fully expected old fandom to catch fire. Hence, this is mainly directed at old fans, and at the same time trying to gain new onces. Thus, it is just too difficult to split the old Evangelion from the new. I expect the same standards to be held in both series, and I expect more of the same that made me think the old Evangelion series (flaws and all) was the most memorable and best anime of all time.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner

My feelings towards Rebuild have ranged everywhere from indifference to excitement to nerd-rage, sometimes in combination. I am left very confused by Anno's intentions with this film and where he was planning to go in the first place.

If he wanted to remake Evangelion, as a treat to old fans and a gateway for new fans, he is doing a piss poor job. If he is just trying to completely reimagine the series, I don't understand why he needs to go back to milk the Evangelion franchise all over again, unless his sole intention is to line his pockets with cash.

Anyhow,tTo carefully construct my review of this movie, I am going to split it into three different sections: characters, plot, and misc.

CHARACTERS

Oh dear, I don't even know where to start... I guess all I can do is talk about each character individually.

Asuka Shikinami (Langley Soryu)

OK. First of all. I don't understand the name change. Asuka Langley Soryu to Asuka Shikinami? Why? I guess I can let this slide...??? She's supposed to be German, but I didn't even get that impression from her in this movie. Again, this is something I can let slide. I am only mentioning it because these facts seem to be a prelude to what would be one of the character destructions of Evangelion 2.0.

What's changed about Asuka you may ask? All you need to do is look at how she interacts with various characters in this movie.

She show's a willingness to be more honest and open up to characters, which is uncharacteristic of her if I am supposed to look at her as the same character from NGE. In particular, a scene that made me cringe was her putting on the plug suit as she was talking to Misato just before getting in Unit 0-3. This development in her character was not only rushed, but also was hard to grasp, since we both don't know what her problems are at all so far, nor do we see what truly led to this personal realization.
.

The suddenness of her apparent affection for Shinji is completely spoon fed to the audience through very Tsundere stereotypes. An example is of Misato making fun of her for cooking apparently for Shinji (wtf? When would she ever do something like that?). It is also apparent when she practically blurts out that she sought the comfort of Shinji when she lies down on his bed. This takes away from what truly was a great/interesting scene in the TV series. In the original, we were left wondering what exactly Asuka was thinking that night and were allowed to actually "think."
.

The elevator scene. Oh my god. Why copy the scene from the TV series, if it makes no sense anymore? I'm going to quote something here because I feel this poster in another forum described perfectly what I mean by this.

In the original series there was a lot of tension between Asuka and Rei because Rei represented much of what happens to be Asuka's personal struggle. She didn't want to be seen as a doll. She wanted people to recognize her existence. She used the Eva's to validate her own existence. Rei acted like a human doll, which goes back to Asuka's struggles with her mother. Again, without even hinting or explaining any of her troubles with her mother, this scene doesn't make any sense.

In the end, this scene seemed to be degraded into a "I'm jealous of the first child for trying to take the guy I like" scene that is oh so common in many generic harem shows. This is not Evangelion. This is disgusting.

I could seemingly rant on endlessly about Asuka being changed. If they didn't want her to be the same character, don't call her Asuka and don't draw a character that looks like Asuka. Make a new character. Better yet, if they aren't going to truly remake Evangelion for the fans of old, don't call it Evangelion and make it something else.

Rei Ayanami

Another character destruction, almost as bad as Asuka's.

Firstly, emotional Rei. What? Wait. Rei did happen to start displaying some sorts of emotions towards the end of the original series. But this is going tooooooooooooooo far. A dinner party? Is this supposed to be some sort of joke? And she also seems so talkative. She wants to cook for Shinji? What? I feel confused. And why is she looking so surprised so often? And what is up with all the smiling?

Rei certainly wasn't the first character of such nature to appear in the anime world, but the silent mysterious girl without emotions was popularized by Evangelion I feel. Moreover, part of what makes her so much better though than all those half ass clones of her (Yuki Nagato from Haruhi being the only one that can seemingly stand up on her own) is how creepy she could be at times throughout the series. I felt she was way too human in this movie, and it really took away from the greatness of her character. I didn't feel like I was watching Rei, just like I didn't feel like I was watching Asuka.

Also, for some reason they are trying to add a lot more Shinji x Rei dynamic in this movie that didn't seem to truly exist in the original Evangelion. Now of course I happen to be a Shinji x Asuka shipper at heart, but I won't let that bias get me here... However, I felt it was exaggerated to a point of ridiculousness.

Anyhow, the reasons why I think her changes were negative I think are clear.

Shinji Ikari

SHINJI-LAGANNNNNNNNNNN. OK, until the final scene with Zeruel I didn't think these complaints were merited about Shinji suddenly turning into Simon from TTGL. The limit of Shinji's desperateness in this fight should have been the powerful scene from the original series where he is desperately begging his Evangelion to move. But then they into this whole scene where Shinji is like inside Zeruel trying to pull out Rei and grunting for like 3 minutes as if he became some sort of shounen character. That is not the Shinji I remember?

OK. It's honestly not the biggest deal in the world. It was what came afterwards that truly killed me. The hug. He hugged Rei, embraced her. In the entire series of Evangelion, Shinji NEVER ONCE embraced another human being like that. He never ONCE had close physical contact with anyone by his own will. He is supposed to be traumatized by physical contact and emotional attachment. Honestly. What the heck? I cannot accept that Shinji would ever do something like this. This not only goes against Shinji's character, but everything of the original TV series.

This was the only standout scene that I truly had a beef with in Rebuild regarding Shinji as a character, but it was a pretty major one...

Gendo Ikari

Only complaint I had was that they made him seem less evil in this than the original, but that really boils down to perception. I actually felt there was some improvements in his character in the movie. They are showing more clearly his obsession with Yui early on.

The College Trio: Misato, Kaji, Ritsuko.

All three characters seemingly suffered from lack of development due to time constraints. None suffered more than our poor Ritsuko. I felt like her presence was nonexistent in the movie.

Kaji's role in the story seems to be in particular strange. I just felt the way he hanged around many of the characters except Misato and Ritsuko, to be strange. It was as if he was close to them even though he seemingly did not interact at all with any of them beforehand.

The biggest shame may be Misato though. Needless to say, we delved very little into what her character is all about.

However, I don't know what to say about this, because it really goes into a more overall complaint about the movies in general, which I will describe later, that mostly has to do with time constraints.

Mari

Mary Sue. End of story really. I will add though that every time she was on the screen and talking, she really felt like an outsider to the Evangelion universe and did not seem to fit in. It was as if she was displaced from her own character.

Other Characters

Again, do to time constraints many of the other characters were nonexistent. All the staff on the bridge control had absolutely no personality whatsoever compared to their TV series counterparts. There is nothing they can do about this.

----------------------------------------------------

Alright because I am tired I will post the rest of my rantings later. But I'll allow you guys to chew on this for the time being.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner

Alright here is the second and third section of my review of this movie that I wasn't able to finish last night. I will make sure to reply to some of your comments afterwards .

PLOT

At times during the movie I felt there were improvements, but at the same time a bunch of negatives. A large problem I seem to be experiencing in 2.0 is that I did see the original Evangelion. I'm not quite sure what to take as the same and what is different. It's as if my previous knowledge of the original is confusing me on the details of this remake.

In the opening scene we see something that we are familiar with already, and that is the scene of Shinji and Gendo's visiting Yui's grave. Nothing wrong here. Then Misato is driving back Shinji and we get a somewhat interesting interaction between Misato and Shinji.

Everything is alright with the world, and then BAM a boat!!! And Asuka's entering scene comes in, taking out the fodder angel easily. Now I'm disappointed a little. I very much appreciated the whole entrance of Asuka (And Kaji) in the original series because it allowed for a lot more character interaction between Shinji/Asuka and Kaji/Misato than the movie. But this all seems to be the result of time constraints? Whatever. But then Asuka gets out of her Eva and acts like a typical Tsundere, tripping Shinji. Bah. Whatever, I'm not going to complain anymore about the characters exactly.

There were a lot of shuffled scenes going on, and new ones added. I thought some of the fan service was a little much personally, though I am sure others will really like it. Things such as the paralleled scene of Asuka getting freaked out by Pen-pen in the shower and coming out nude, and then giving Shinji a kick in the face like you'd see in some harem show . Ugh. Then there is Asuka always sleeping in her underwear as well. Pen-Pen did give me a laugh though when we saw him sleeping inside Misato's shirt though .

I GUESS the main complaint is that the plot allowed for very little character interaction, in particular, the main side characters. Asuka was shafted. The college trio was very shafted. And everyone else was not even heard of basically. I do love everything about Evangelion, but the character interactions is what really made the story at the end of the day. Without it, we are lost. Time constraints, TIME CONSTRAINTS!!!!!! GRRRR... Movie format really does piss me some times.

My only beef with the plot started at the time that Asuka entered unit 0-3. The Eva limiter law, and the particular way that it's lightly introduced in the second movie for the sole purpose of having an excuse to get Asuka out of EVA-02 and make room for Mari (as opposed to being treated as an immediate major plot device that makes NERV go "Hey, wait, why is SEELE trying to limit our only hope for the entire human race?") just drives the story's laws and logical flow into a brick wall and turns it to trash. There are longer-reaching messes created by this as well. Like, if we're to assume the Evas in Rebuild aren't restricted by the soul-synchronization gimmick from the TV series, hence why Asuka is even allowed to be taken off of the Standby Eva-02 for a high-risk assignment, then you basically have to re-invent 1.0's entire plotline since there's no reason left for Gendou to go through crap looking for Shinji to pilot the 01.

That reminds me... How does no one in NERV not know about Mari? Ridiculous. She just parachutes into Tokyo like it was nothing. Also, she is somehow able to hijack unit 2-0 and everyone is like "meh whatever." Oh dear.

AND THEN THEY TOOK AWAY KAJI'S MOTIVATIONAL SPEECH TO SHINJI AND REPLACED IT WITH GODDAMN MARI . Useless, USELESS character!

Sigh. Then they supposedly do something like Shinji initiating Third-Impact only to have our lovable Kaworu comes from the heavens and strikes Unit 0-1 down before everything can happen. I just didn't dig the whole Zeruel going EoE on us with transforming into Rei's body whatsoever. They took away that chilling scene of Unit 0-1 eating Zeruel.

Basically, up until Asuka entering unit 0-3, I was actually relatively OK with the movie. They did things I disliked, especially Rei try to do the dinner party and entering some sort of cooking feud with Asuka , but then the movie entered the realm of unforgivableness.

I'll wait till the third and fourth movie though to see where they go with the plot compared to the original. They already achieved what I would say is almost absolute perfection in End of Evangelion. Perhaps what I always wanted was just a tiny bit more conclusion to EoE and I personally thought Rebuild would be able to provide that. Just wanted to see what would happen with the characters, specifically Asuka and Shinji after almost the end of the world...

Misc. Complaints

I originally intended this section to be for things that didn't fit in the other two. But I pretty much covered that sort of stuff already. Instead I'll talk a little bit about what I wanted to see compared to what I actually saw.

I'm going to quote another guy from some other forum again just to restate and add to some of my earlier opinions...

I'm a fan torn right now. I don't know how to watch Rebuild anymore. I don't understand what Anno has done. I've seen people argue things such as:

But in the end, the manner in which he touches upon these subjects isn't quite the same.

As for NGE, people dislike what they dislike and usually miss the point where a series can be a good job around "dislike". For example, I don't like eating fish but I still appreciate the cook's work to make it good. I will never call a dish bad because it has fish. Only if it's burned or too raw or something.

I have heard many things of why people dislike NGE. And they are all about "missing the point." Shinji is depressing. He was made to be as such. The story has mecha and they are not Gundams or Tengen Toppa. Tough luck. The ending was weird. Yes, that does not make it bad. Just weird.

In other news Highschool of the Dead is a piece of retarded shit and exists just so you can fap with some zombies as side dish. But it was done so over the top ludicrusly, it was actually half-good.

I actually have a theory on what Anno is trying to do with Rebuild. It's pretty well known that Anno had major depression problems during the time he was working on the original Evangelion. On the other hand, recent interviews suggest he's much happier these days.

Both the original Evangelion and Rebuild seem to reflect his moods at the time he was working on them. My guess is that Anno simply looked back on Evangelion and thought that what he said with it was too pessimistic. Looking through the last of changes you noted, many of them seem to have been made with the intention of giving the movie a more optimistic tone, and I expect this general mood to continue in 3.0 and 4.0.

I don't know if these changes are going to contribute to some message in the long run. Anno seems to be holding his cards close to his chest on what that message might be.

I haven't watch the rebuild of EVA, but I believe when there is a remake, audience want the main plot exactly the same as the original, with added character background, filled the holes in the original and improved graphics and sound. If they want to change the main plot or even worse theme, they should come up with a completely new story.

I have this problem when watching Zeta Gundam the movie. One of the most iconic plot (in the history of gundam) regarding Zeta Gundam is Camille becomes almost comatose and they change it completely in the movie. I must say I am unhappy with that.

So to me, EVA is a depressing anime. Any attempt to make it less depressing is wrong.

__________________

They came first for sharks fin,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sharks fin.
Then they came for foie gras,I didn't speak up because I don't eat foie gras.
Then they came for Toro (bluefin tuna) sushi,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sushi.
Then they came for me and force me to be a vegan by that time no one was left to speak up.

The issue with N.H.K. is that many people take it as an educational series, a look into the world of contemporary Japan, because it features mainstream Japanese controversy types. The piss-poor sales of R2 DVDs reflect the poor handling of the adaptation, and my guess is that this type of material doesn't interest Japanese otaku one bit.