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[quote]According to a recent statistical survey, however, since the law was passed, sales of music in Japan have continued to fall and consumers are actually showing less interest in music than ever before.[/quote]

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[quote name='~Johnny' timestamp='1352760217' post='595315136']
Fine by me, if they don't want to pay for it, don't listen to it from a download.
[/quote]
Sure, but here it says they are spending less. That statistic is referring to legal purchases.

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This is showing a correlation between the years-long supposition that a lot of people use piracy as a 'try before you buy' solution.

Doing the downloads lets them try out the music or video content, and if they like it then they go pay for it.

Personally this is why I've kept my old $15 Zune Pass. I get to use the subscription part of it to discover new music, and the 10 credits each month to keep what I want. It's basically a legal form of the above-mentioned method.

I had a feeling sales would drop when they started cracking down on this. They are basically just hurting themselves...not the people.

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[quote name='Shane Nokes' timestamp='1352760521' post='595315152']
This is showing a correlation between the years-long supposition that a lot of people use piracy as a 'try before you buy' solution.
[/quote]

I don't think I've ever known anyone who's genuinely done this - they either set out to buy it in the first place, or "try" it by listening to it on the radio. All this research is showing was that Japanese music sales were falling before the ban, and they still fell after the ban. All that's happened now is people are feeling less entitled to think they have a right to download it, and just get on with other things instead. Which is fine. It hasn't increased sales, but it's stopped a number of people from listening to what they legally shouldn't be.

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[quote name='~Johnny' timestamp='1352762136' post='595315250']
I don't think I've ever known anyone who's genuinely done this - they either set out to buy it in the first place, or "try" it by listening to it on the radio. All this research is showing was that Japanese music sales were falling before the ban, and they still fell after the ban. All that's happened now is people are feeling less entitled to think they have a right to download it, and just get on with other things instead. Which is fine. It hasn't increased sales, but it's stopped a number of people from listening to what they legally shouldn't be.
[/quote]

Well now you can say you know one.

Before Zune I often sampled an album. If I liked it I bought it. If I didn't like it then I didn't even bother with the Recycle Bin. I would just Shift-Delete it.

The only industry I could be accused of harming is the rental video industry. Even then it would be a small amount since I generally buy my movies used from Blockbuster since they offer Previously-viewed Blu-Ray movies for like $4-$5 a pop.

Some stuff I buy new...but with Blu-Ray being as durable as they are...I have yet to buy a disc with a single scratch on it.

Bringing that back around...now you know someone who has in the past employed a 'try before you buy' method. Almost everyone I know who is a 'pirate' does the same thing.

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[quote name='~Johnny' timestamp='1352762136' post='595315250']
I don't think I've ever known anyone who's genuinely done this - they either set out to buy it in the first place, or "try" it by listening to it on the radio. All this research is showing was that Japanese music sales were falling before the ban, and they still fell after the ban. All that's happened now is people are feeling less entitled to think they have a right to download it, and just get on with other things instead. Which is fine. It hasn't increased sales, but it's stopped a number of people from listening to what they legally shouldn't be.
[/quote]

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[quote name='Shane Nokes' timestamp='1352762481' post='595315262']
Well now you can say you know one.

Before Zune I often sampled an album. If I liked it I bought it. If I didn't like it then I didn't even bother with the Recycle Bin. I would just Shift-Delete it.

The only industry I could be accused of harming is the rental video industry. Even then it would be a small amount since I generally buy my movies used from Blockbuster since they offer Previously-viewed Blu-Ray movies for like $4-$5 a pop.

Some stuff I buy new...but with Blu-Ray being as durable as they are...I have yet to buy a disc with a single scratch on it.

Bringing that back around...now you know someone who has in the past employed a 'try before you buy' method. Almost everyone I know who is a 'pirate' does the same thing.
[/quote]

And at what point is that in anyway acceptable? There's plenty of legal ways to sample the music it. You don't get to read a full book before buying it, or watch a whole film before deciding to buy it / a ticket for it. You get samplers / trailers / previews, and there are plenty of perfectly good legal samples provided out there for music - whether it's 30 second music previews on things like iTunes, going onto YouTube, or even just using free Spotify. The mentality these days is that people have some sort of right to do whatever they want with the music, which I personally find nonsense, trying before you buy included.

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[quote name='~Johnny' timestamp='1352762136' post='595315250']
I don't think I've ever known anyone who's genuinely done this - they either set out to buy it in the first place, or "try" it by listening to it on the radio. All this research is showing was that Japanese music sales were falling before the ban, and they still fell after the ban. All that's happened now is people are feeling less entitled to think they have a right to download it, and just get on with other things instead. Which is fine. It hasn't increased sales, but it's stopped a number of people from listening to what they legally shouldn't be.
[/quote]

When Inception came out, I loved the "Mind Heist" track that was on all the trailers, I couldn't find it anywhere legally, so I got it off a torrent. Then, I went looking for other stuff by the same artist, I found I liked quite a lot of it, and as a result now own [i]legitimately[/i] both of his studio albums, all because I pirated one song. True story.

Same also applies to Breaking Benjamin. I can't remember where I heard their first song, but because I liked the pirated song, I now legally own the full album imported from the US, and another I listen to on Spotify.

I'm not saying all people are like that. I know people who haven't bought any music or movies in years because they download them illegally, but not every pirate copy is a lost sale. This kind of thing is exactly why these companies need to modernize. The internet changed the game, the cost of delivery is basically zero now, and sharing music is as easy as ctrl+c, ctrl+v. People WANT easy access to lots of music, and they can get it whether these companies want to join in or not. The cat is out of the bag, so to speak, and things have changed. Forever.

No more extortion through forced scarcity. No more overpriced discs. No most costs to copy media. No more cartels. The bits and bytes thing is here to stay. These companies just want everything back to the good old days, where they could charge whatever they liked and no-one knew otherwise, where they could take a 90% cut of sales and the artist wouldn't see a problem. The internet is basically 100% pro-consumer, and this terrifies these companies.

Over the past few years, things have changed, which is great. We've got services like Spotify and Netflix that allow us easy access to lots of media for a low price. No piracy, no court cases, everyone wins. Granted, there are issues. Spotify doesn't pay artists nearly as much as they'd like, they're struggling with the freemium model, but these issues will get ironed out in time. Then, every now again, we get stories like this that take away every last hope that the "old guard" of media was gone, and that governments favour corporate profits over consumer rights and freedoms.

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[quote name='~Johnny' timestamp='1352764162' post='595315330']
And at what point is that in anyway acceptable? There's plenty of legal ways to sample the music it. You don't get to read a full book before buying it, or watch a whole film before deciding to buy it / a ticket for it. You get samplers / trailers / previews, and there are plenty of perfectly good legal samples provided out there for music - whether it's 30 second music previews on things like iTunes, going onto YouTube, or even just using free Spotify. The mentality these days is that people have some sort of right to do whatever they want with the music, which I personally find nonsense, trying before you buy included.
[/quote]

Sure I do. It's called a library. I can go there and check out books, and if I like them I buy them. If I don't then I return them. I do the same thing with my Kindle with the 'Kindle Lending Library'. I try out books that look interesting, and if I like them I buy them.

Books have a very legal way of employing a 'try before you buy' method that no one really frowns upon.

Music & Movies don't really have that.

Music has the 10-30 second clip. It's usually the 'best' 10-30 seconds of the song...which can be very deceptive. I've bought songs before based on those 10-30 second samples and found that clip was the only part of the song I liked. That was a waste.

When it comes to movies, trailers these days tend to be more deceptive than anything. For instance I refused to go see Dark Shadows in the theater due to the trailer making it look like a really crappy remake of the original. I'm now going to watch it with a friend because they've seen it and said that the really stupid campy comedy bits were all in the trailer and that the tone of the movie isn't the same as the tone of the trailer.

Just based on the preview I wouldn't have known that.

Sometimes a sample isn't a bad thing...since it can let you know if you like something enough to own it.

I do like how you swapped from the 'don't really know anyone who does it that way' argument to the 'well that's still not acceptable' argument.

If you've ever so much as taken a peek at a script in development, ran a non-released OS build, listened to a song on a device you own in a public venue where others could hear it, or watched part of a movie in a public area on a tablet or other device where others could see it, then you have no ability to look down.

The reason being that all of those things are actually in violation of the same type of law themselves.

The point being some of these laws hurt the industry more than they help it...and do not make sense.

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Whether it's legal or moral is a question for a different thread in my opinion, but given that studies have indicated that people who pirate often do also buy a lot of music (sometimes even more than non pirates), and buy concert tickets I'm not surprised at all by this news.

Personally these days I will be reluctant to buy an album unless I have heard some of it first, it's a growing trend that albums are getting released that have a couple of good tracks on with the rest being complete crap.

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[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1352764858' post='595315352']
Whether it's legal or moral is a question for a different thread in my opinion, but given that studies have indicated that people who pirate often do also buy a lot of music (sometimes even more than non pirates), and buy concert tickets I'm not surprised at all by this news.

Personally these days I will be reluctant to buy an album unless I have heard some of it first, it's a growing trend that albums are getting released that have a couple of good tracks on with the rest being complete crap.
[/quote]

Indeed that's why I'm so picky. One of the few bands (and this is a personal taste) that I can almost always trust to release a nice album is Linkin Park. The reason I say that is that they've gone the Pink Floyd route of having 'concept albums' similar to the way some of the old Progressive Rock albums worked.

I know that the album is meant to be listened to as a whole since it all works together as one piece. I haven't been disappointed in their last 3 albums because of this switch. I liked their earlier work as well...but they've really hit a good stride at this point.

I feel like if I hear a bit of that album then normally if I like it I'm going to like the rest of it.

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[quote name='~Johnny' timestamp='1352762136' post='595315250']
I don't think I've ever known anyone who's genuinely done this - they either set out to buy it in the first place, or "try" it by listening to it on the radio. All this research is showing was that Japanese music sales were falling before the ban, and they still fell after the ban. All that's happened now is people are feeling less entitled to think they have a right to download it, and just get on with other things instead. Which is fine. It hasn't increased sales, but it's stopped a number of people from listening to what they legally shouldn't be.
[/quote]

Not with music I don't. You are right, if I am set to buy an album, I will, otherwise I don't. But with games, it is a completely different story. If a company doesn't release a demo, I will try it by other means, and this has saved me from making a ton of poor purchases. (Need For Speed: Most Wanted being the most recent.) I will buy anything I "try" if it is good... But if I only play it for an hour, and deem it sucks, I get rid of it, and forget about it. At $60 a pop and no refunds on most and some without demos, you bet your wallet I am not going to make a bad purchase without trying it myself.

Music on the other hand, well, I only buy one or two bands albums anymore, and that is just me supporting the artists. I'd rather use GrooveShark or something for my music nowadays, because that is a better model than what the record industry keeps trying to shove down our throats.

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[quote name='~Johnny' timestamp='1352762136' post='595315250']
I don't think I've ever known anyone who's genuinely done this - they either set out to buy it in the first place, or "try" it by listening to it on the radio. All this research is showing was that Japanese music sales were falling before the ban, and they still fell after the ban. All that's happened now is people are feeling less entitled to think they have a right to download it, and just get on with other things instead. Which is fine. It hasn't increased sales, but it's stopped a number of people from listening to what they legally shouldn't be.
[/quote]

I do it. I have a stack of 360 games that I bought full price that I downloaded from a torrent site prior. If after playing it for a few hours I like it I run out and buy it. If I don't like it then I toss it.
As for music I have a zune pass / xbox music pass so I get all the downloads I want legally for only $10

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[quote name='Shane Nokes' timestamp='1352762481' post='595315262']
Well now you can say you know one.
[/quote]
I'll just say, from my personal experience, people like you are an exception. Most of the people I know (in their teens / twenties anyways) would buy at least a few of the things they download (not all, but a few), but they don't because they can get it for free.

As for the article, looking at sales one month after the bill passed is not conclusive of anything. As Johnny said, this is merely a continuing trend of sales that were already falling. While this is a trend that has been seen several times before, I'd argue that these laws do little to actually deter people from pirating. The fact is, piracy is as rampant as ever. When a new law actually puts a significant dent in piracy rates, then let me know how sales figures compare.