Comments / Contact

Comments

All comments are moderated. This can be frustrating as it means that publication is delayed (although generally for less than 24 hours) — but on the other hand it also avoids my having to delete gross acts of stupidity. (My blog is subject to frequent trolling.)

Publication of a comment should not be read as an endorsement of its contents.

I sometimes edit comments for clarity (spelling/grammar) but sometimes do not, especially if mistakes are regular and systematic or in some way amusing. I also sometimes insert commentary: this is indicated by use of square brackets [like this].

I sometimes reject comments, usually if they fall into one of two categories: they are abusive or stoopid. Links to racist, fascist or otherwise objectionable sites are usually rejected.

Contact

I can be reached via email: chummyfleming[at]yahoo[dot]com[dot]au.

141 Responses to Comments / Contact

I don’t care what your reasons are or the persons involved,like I said people gathering intell on the public regardless of there political agenda and making it available permanently is apart of big brother.

The antibogan involved government spy agencies they targeted both right wing and left wing.What was meant to be a laugh for there members made draconian laws for all.They the antibogans intended just the right wing to be targeted it didn’t end there.

1) I’m not an ‘intelligence agency’, I’m a blogger. I don’t gather intelligence on The Public: I monitor the activities of the far right. Most of this activity is public. For example, an electoral campaign by the Australia First Party; a political rally organised by the Australian Defence League; a gig organised by Blood & Honour and the Hammerskins. My principal focus is Melbourne because that’s where I live. Occasionally, someone will contact me offering to provide me with additional information on some group or other. Typically, these are disgruntled former members/associates, ex-partners of members, or members of the public disgusted, say, by the swastika tattooed on to their workmate’s forehead. Such information may be useful or it may not. Mostly, it helps me to develop a better picture of the scene as a whole and some of its micro-politics.

2) I asked you to identify the material on my blog you find particularly objectionable. You’ve not done so.

3) I don’t know what you mean by ‘permanent record’ but I think you’re confused about Big Brother. To put it mildly: if ASIO or some other state agency (SIG for example) wish to obtain information on the far right, they *really* don’t have to rely on my blog to do so. Consider also the fact that the resources available to me are miniscule compared to the state, but if it wants to it can find out what you had for breakfast and what colour underpants you’re wearing.

4) What government agencies did the antibogan blog involve? How? Why do you think it targeted left and right? What Draconian laws do you mean and what did the antibogan blog do to help make them? To the best of my knowledge, most of the material on the antibogan blog was sourced from material published on Facebook; one of the things the blog did or attempted to do was to ‘name and shame’ those responsible for publishing material it considered bigoted (racist, sexist, homophobic etc); commenters on the blog occasionally demanded that Facebook or government authorities or somebody else ‘do something’ about the bigoted views being expressed.

Techniques used by antibogan that caused the backlash.
1.Informing government agencies to cause harm to the persons life on there political beliefs asio,federal police.
2.Notifying government agencies where a person works to get the person fired from there employment.
3.Contacting child services to get persons family removed for political beliefs.
4.Notifying persons employers to get them fired to cause financial harm for said political beliefs.
5.Posting pictures of persons children then posting vulgar remarks.
6.Posting persons picture name and address.
7.Posting lies of child abuse of persons.
8.Draconian laws designed for terrorists seizure of assets and banking and employment were enabled through the act on threats of violence due to politically based ideology.For example if someone’s child’s photo was posted and they posted threats for the file to be removed these comments were passed onto asio.Because of the political nature this enabled the draconian laws to be imposed.

The blog is closed now but I recall a number of people who posted things on Facebook being named. Some also had their places of work listed where such information was included on their profile. For example, if John Smith posted something like ‘I think Muslims are scum and they should all be shot’ a screenshot would be taken of the remark and republished along with John’s profile, which might include reference to his job at Some Company. Or to use an actual example, in late 2010 a man named Joel Buckley wrote that asylum seekers were “DIRTY, CAMEL FUCKING, RAG HEADED PIECES OF SHIT”. I suppose you could dignify this statement with the term ‘political beliefs’ if you wanted to, but to me it reads more like racist abuse. In any case, Joel’s profile revealed he was a member of the RAN. Given that it was possible that it was part of his job to help police the waters to the north of the country, concern was expressed as to whether or not someone with his views should be doing so. I understand that the RAN was then actually contacted, either by the blog and/or others, complaining about the fact that he might be in such a position and that this was inappropriate/he should be disciplined/etc.

I don’t know what, if anything, happened to Joel as a result of these presumed complaints. From memory, I know of one person who may have lost their job as a result of someone complaining about their posting allegedly racist material on their public profile on Facebook. That person was Terrie-Anne Verney. July 2009:

A presenter for a NSW community radio station that specialises in multicultural programming has been reprimanded after she was revealed to be an administrator of several racist, anti-immigration groups on Facebook.

Terrie-Anne Verney, a presenter and sales representative for Griffith FM radio station 2MIA, was the administrator of the group “F— Off, We’re Full” and had also joined several Facebook groups including “Stop the Islamisation of Australia while we still can”, “Australian Conservative United Party”, the “Australian Protectionist Party” and “Australians against Multiculturalism”.

Apart from her political views, the problem for Terry was that she wrote things like: —

Of bashed Indian students, she said they were “playing the victim card” and “the shit around their head must do something to their brain”.

“Maybe a gun to their head might help them get the hint that they are not wanted here!!,” she wrote.

— and these views clashed with the station’s commitment to ‘multicultural’ programming and content.

8. You’re simply wrong about this. theantibogan blog has had 1/4 of 2/5 of fuck-all to do with ‘anti-terrorist’ laws — laws which you’re unable to even name. In reality, these laws were rushed through Federal Parliament in the aftermath of 9/11 — dozens of pieces of legislation have been introduced or amended in the intervening 12 years — and were justified specifically in reference to the threat of terrorism from Islamists, not because theantibogan blog complained about someone being a dickhead on Facebook!!!111!!!

Further:

a) concern over the laws has less to do with the fact that ‘terrorists’ might lose their jobs or houses and more to do with the fact that the laws strip citizens of their rights, lower the standard of proof, and massively increase the penalties for engaging in ‘conspiracy’ to commit crime;
b) the overwhelming majority of ‘terrorism’ cases have involved alleged ‘jihadists’ — not one has involved a White nationalist, neo-Nazi or far right militant.

“For example if someone’s child’s photo was posted and they posted threats for the file to be removed these comments were passed onto asio.”

Your misinformed thousands lost there job I was personally investigated with at least two hundred more that I have a connection.This is the last time I will communicate now you know the reason why we shut the down and retaliated.

Craig and the other bruised far right walking egos have to have justification to themselves for stalking, bullying and generally being arseholes when their racism, bigotry and other general nastiness is exposed to public scrutiny.

The solutions have always been there for Craig and friends and this next bit is addressed to them in as simple a language as can be mustered:

1. If you have undesirable antisocial urges like racism and bigotry, keep it to yourselves. Just as society finds public defecation undesirable and offensive, it is likewise with racism and bigotry. In fact many people are in prison for letting themselves succumb to undesirable and offensive urges to murder, rape, assault and abuse. Think about it.

And don’t post evidence-free defamation and vilification of minorities on public forums. Andrew Bolt learnt that the hard way.

FYI. Andy being critical of islam is not being racist. There are Arab, African, Asian and Caucasian muslims. Anything that one can choose to join is not a race. Islam is a religion that many people people find threatening, they should be allowed to express there concerns without being branded racist.
John cully

andy my brother. your the man! wish i was living in melb. ill protect you till the end! we hope to contact you 1day and put some plans in place. i know a lot of people whos down to pound! fuckin skinheads! bitches only good when they outnumber you. there fuck all in adel. get wrecked all the time. pussy out when the numbers are even. lots of them are buried in the woods. asians. africans. middle eastern. everybody who has a brain. get together and fuckin unite!!! somebody make a website. expose them. information. pictures. address. work place. hang outs. car detail, dont worry about there phone numbers because we wont be calling. we just gonna rain on them etc. make a forum. have different sections for each state, make it so we can access it with phones. keep it simple so people can scan there face real fast, to avoid hitting up innocent people by accident, have a option to register or not, set that up and we will be on the front line chopping there fucking heads in!

I encourage my brothers and sisters on the Right not to use foul language because people switch off straight away. The Left is most susceptible to humour, because their beliefs are just so damn ridiculous you can always find something ridicule. They always end up shooting themselves in the foot. I mean, look at Gillard the worst PM ever. I used to be embarrassed for all Australians when she went overseas. Flaming red hair, knocked kneed, absolutely huge backside, long pointy nose and that rare gift of ALWAYS seeming to talk down to people (though I know she never meant to).

Hello out there. My name is Ivan Erchak. I remember a couple years after Foetus squat burned down and I had been kicked out of Pest squat I decided to take over a pristine and finished building filled with sheetrock. I got the bolt cutters and moved in, supported by Lisa who was at Serenity squat. I received mail there and invoked squatters’ rights. Later a dude named Sonja from Venezuela and a few others sat on the sixth floor and thought about a name for the building as we were preparing to move people in… I came up with name Dos Blockos which seemed funny and ridiculous at the time. It was a bastardization of Spanish and a reference to the fact that we never left those two blocks. It seemed like a shitty name but it stuck. So funny… I think I first camped in there for a month single handed around 1991… bless. It became the Last Chance Hotel. I was delighted to see how long it held up after I left for the trains. So happy to be a part of the legend and the movement. Bless.

Happened upon yr blog, not sure how, got up too early, but it is surprising that such idiocy is seemingly rampant in our very midst. Loving the satirical undertone, the best way to underline the evolutionary shortcomings of those who subscribe to all this white Oz nonsense. A shallow point I’ll concede, but don’t some of these fools appear decidedly underdeveloped? Some muddy gene pools at play there. As a devout substance monist it pains me to think that we all flow from the same font. Maybe Devo were on to something. Keep up the good work.

I’m confused you claim to be an anarchist but have the “trot guide” on your page which by its nature would suggest you subscribe to a left wing ideology? Apart from a mutual hatred of fascists there isn’t that much in common with an anarchist belief structure especially when you consider the Socialist Alliance …

Let’s unite together against freedom of speech and expression and support institutional tyrannism. And scream racist at anyone that disagrees with our viewpoint. Andy is here to show the way to a bright new future living under caliphate rule, where we all are subjugated equally.

I really don’t understand why you fly under a false flag, if you want to help dismantle the cultural values that make Australia such a good place to live. Why pretend to be an anarchist and defender of social freedoms? Because it’s quite clear from your blog and posts elsewhere that you are anything but those things. You’ve really missed the ball on this one Andy…

Andy you have the correct amount of slackness, and just the right amount of bastard to get my socialist libertarian senses tingling. I’m impressed by the amount of hatred your site generates from unintelligent racist bastards everywhere. Well done comrade. I feel proud to be unAustralian when I read your blog but sadly Ozfailure will never be free till the entrails of the last Nazi are wrapped around the throat of the last patriot.

You seem to support the antifa, i am just curious how you can claim to fight against intolerance and against fascism when you yourself are an intolerant fascist?

“Woah what the Dickens” you might say, but honestly to be intolerant towards intolerance is ridiculous as you [are] doing exactly what you’re preaching against. You are telling people “my way is right yours are wrong” “my ethics are the right ones your beliefs are shit”, you are naming names and shaming people and calling them out and trying to stamp a belief system off the face of the earth? So you are pretty much behaving like a nazi. Can you not see the contradiction in your behavior?

Also do you not see you are giving more attention to these hate groups? The ONLY reason I heard about Reclaim Australia and all that bollocks was because the opposing protestors clashed which then made it reach the news, it reaching the news made me say “what’s Reclaim Australia” and look it up, which is what many others would do. As you can see with the UPF it is SO small, it’s barely anything, the way it will get bigger (much like the fascists of the antifa itself) is through people promoting it (for or against) because even if you’re against it you will get people seeing it as “oh they are hated, that’s bad ass, I’m gonna rebel” – or whatever shit appeals to those people, but the point being the more attention you give it the more power you give it.

The old saying “any publicity is good publicity” means so much more in this day and age, and even plastering the net with pics of guys with swazi tats and stuff WILL appeal to some people, thus you are helping them recruit.

Also in the case of the antifa, they ARE an intolerant and fascist group, they commit more crime and violence against people for having different beliefs than the fascists they fight. Fighting intolerance with intolerance only makes the group look hypocritical and idiotic.

Now imagine this, imagine if an antifa member went up to a skinhead and hugged him, sure the chances are the skin would react violently HOWEVER that makes the skins look worse and like degenerate thugs, instead of the antifa member looking like contradictory hooligan scum (with a false sense of fighting the good fight, which let’s face it is exactly the mentality of white power groups).

This is just food for thought. But if you were truly anti intolerance or anti fascist you would not have this blog judging people for their beliefs and being intolerant. Hug it out. Stop promoting them. Stop promoting fake antifascists who are fascist. You are saying “free antifa prisoners … who murdered people”. I mean c’mon. This makes you look downright ignorant. “Free hat!”

It beggars belief that you could write that anyone who is anti-Islam is a fascist. Islam is not a religion, it is an ideology. Everything about how a Muslim lives is dictated by the Koran and Sunnah. For normal religions, the belief is part of the individual; for Islam, the individual is part of the belief. That sounds like fascism to me.
The fact that you support Islamists shows that you do not possess any understanding of Islam and nor do you value equality – equality of people, religion, or gender. Read this biography of Mohammed …

Perhaps you might then question the morals and motives of anyone who could follow the teachings of a man who had sex with a nine year old, encouraged and rewarded murders that silenced his critics, was a rapist, and also a mass murderer of Jews. The Koran is a hate book, nothing more, nothing less. There are over 100 references to killing kafirs (that’s you by the way), and more references to killing Jews than Mein Kampf. And of course Islam’s treatment of women is unimpeachable.

So no, Reclaim Australia supporters are not racists (Islam is not a race), not bigots (just informed and alarmed citizens), and not fascists (just people who value the freedom of everyone, including misguided individuals who support Islamists).

But hey, just bury your head in the sand – at least it will be harder for Islamists to hack it off.

Hello, My name is Julius Medina of Melbourne, Victoria in Australia. I am requesting on behalf of my own legal and personal privacy rights to have any articles, comments, links or any information referring to “Julius Medina” or any information affiliated with the name “Julius Medina” to be removed from your database and website. Please inform me via this email address of any updates of the request mentioned above and when ALL information has been removed. Thank you.

I hope you’ll forgive me for writing out of the blue but I hope you might be able to give me some help. I’m an old friend of musician Ross Hannaford who I reckon is one of the best guitarists this country has produced. For some time he’s supported himself busking at the South Melbourne market. He’s currently battling serious illness and unable to do that any more.

Late last year I shot a long interview with him about his childhood, stardom, spiritual life and his love of reggae. It’s a very intimate insight into one of the most loved people in the music industry. To provide him with some assistance I’ve pulled the footage into a 60 minute DVD. It’s not a doco but an hour spent with a unique character. We’ve made the disc available for $25.00 from our website.

Hanna will get all proceeds. I’m writing to ask if there’s any way you could publish this info and the link to enable people to help out. He’s given so many people so much pleasure I’m hoping that the public won’t hesitate to respond now that he needs some help.

Here’s a link to a short excerpt we’ve posted:

I have stills if that’s of any use. If you’ve got any questions please give me a yell.

“Fascists, racists and various species of bigot — organised by fascist grouplet the United Patriots Front (UPF) — will once again descend on Bendigo next weekend (October 10).”

Mate, I can’t believe you keep throwing out such epithets. Other than the UPF, who may well fit your description, it will almost certainly be regular Aussies who have well-founded concerns about Islam that attended. If they are anything like me, the only label that might apply is ‘bigot’, because having read and understood what Islam represents, they will never respect your opinion that Islam is a good fit with a free nation. That does not make their view wrong.

Incidentally, fascism and Islam go hand in hand. You should actually learn some history:

The links at the bottom: Islam, Fascism and Terrorism are particularly interesting.

I noticed that in my last communication to you, you removed the link that I included. Were you concerned your supporters might ‘turn’ if they read such information? Perhaps the difference between a “fascist, racist, bigot and Islamophobe” like me, and yourself, is that I prefer information to be presented and for people to make up their own mind based on it, rather than suppressing anything that opposes my worldview. I do appreciate, however, that you did extend the courtesy of posting the remainder.

What I find most odd about people such as yourself who support Islamists, is that you KNOW that there will be extremists amongst them who will murder innocent Australians – as has been demonstrated again. Do other groups have extremists to the extent Islam does (that’s a rhetorical question by the way)? So why would you support this ideology, or the importation of more people who support it? I can only say that you must really hate your country and despise your countrymen. Australia has faults like any nation, but if you were to compare it to any one of the something like 57 Islamic nations that Islamists can live in, it is fantastic by comparison.

I propose an experiment for you. Look back in time to a point where Islam starts to enter any non-Islamic nation – either by the sword or Muslims’ fecundity. Then move forward in time and look at the situation of the original kafir population. Not a pretty picture. The Ottoman Empire is but one such example, and a relatively recent one at that.

Good luck with your tolerance for Islam. I truly hope that it will show you the same; but based on its history I wouldn’t wager any of my money on that outcome.

• The UPF is fascist, yes; I imagine the majority of those who attended their rally on Saturday simply hate and fear Muslims, and they wrap their contempt in the flag. Like some others, I doubt many would understand what fascism is or means. It’s this combination of ignorance and irrational prejudice that fuels reactionary social movements.

1. There is a big difference between defending the freedom of conscience of Muslims and supporting Islam, let alone Islamists. The Campaign Against Racism & Fascism upholds complete freedom of conscience, worldwide. In Australia at present, that freedom is most under threat for Muslims, who are increasingly persecuted and harrassed for their faith. In some other countries, the boot is on the other foot and CARF supports the rights of those persecuted for not being Muslim. By demanding State regulation of what is acceptable religion, Islamophobic bigots are actually ceding massive political ground to the people they profess to oppose most.

2. Political Islam is a reactionary ideology which must be fought. The manner of fighting it depends on the degree of political power it wields in any given society. In Australia today, it has no political power and the best it can achieve is a degree of social pressure in some of the many different Muslim communities. The tactics for fighting this are necessarily quite different from those necessary in a place like Iran, where the clergy have established what may be described as a “managed democracy” which bloodily suppresses opposition to its State institutions, or in Saudi Arabia, where the House of Saud constitute an absolute monarchy using the Wahabi clergy as their political prop – and are approximately as keen on beheadings as Daesh is.

3. It is common for far Right activists to suppose that their opponents “hate Australia” and despise “their countrymen”. The vast majority of such opponents do no such thing. They just have a different idea about what constitutes an Austalia worth living in. I am probably the closest to the concept Pseudonymous has of the far Right’s opponents, but even I’m not all that close.

For the record, I am an internationalist and, as such, my loyalty is to the human race. I am, therefore, OPPOSED to each and every nation State (including Australia), whose wars, bickerings and national strivings divide people against each other. That doesn’t mean I despise those who, like me, experienced the geographical accident of being born in Australia. I just despise the people who want, in the name of national loyalty, to compel me and divers others to worship the division of humanity into hostile tribes. My anthem is not Advance Australia Fair, but The Internationale.

It’s a shame that you believe that the book that the link went to is crap, but that is of course your prerogative.

• The UPF is fascist, yes; I imagine the majority of those who attended their rally on Saturday simply hate and fear Muslims, and they wrap their contempt in the flag. Like some others, I doubt many would understand what fascism is or means. It’s this combination of ignorance and irrational prejudice that fuels reactionary social movements.

In my opinion any normal person should hate Islam. After all, it is a violent, supremacist ideology akin to Nazism and it will by its nature never change. The rally attendees may hate Muslims – at the very least they might question the morality of those who follow the teachings of a psychopath. If they fear Islam, it would not be unfounded. Assyrian Christians alone have experienced 30 genocides at the hands of Muslims – occurring on average every 45 years. This is an extract of an eyewitness account of one incident in 1918:

‘The Assyrian refugees were kept under guard for eight days, without anything to eat. At last they were removed from their place of confinement and taken to a spot prepared for their brutal killing. These helpless Assyrians marched like lambs to their slaughter, and they opened not their mouth, save by saying, “Lord, into thy hands we commit our spirits.”

The executioners began by first by cutting the fingers of their victims, joint by joint, till the two hands were entirely amputated. Then they were stretched on the ground, after the manner of the animals that are slain in the Fast, but these with their faces turned upward, and their heads rested upon the stones or blocks of wood. Then their throats were half cut, so as to prolong their torture of dying, and while struggling in the agony of death, the victims were kicked and clubbed with heavy poles the murderers carried. Many of them, while still labouring under the pain of death, were thrown into ditches and buried before their souls had expired.

Some of the younger and good looking women, along with a few little girls of attractive appearance (because we know how Islam permits sex with young girls – my comment), pleaded to be killed. Against their will they were forced into Islam’s harems. Others were subjected to such fiendish insults that I cannot possibly describe. Death, however, came to their rescue and saved them from the vile passions of the demons. The death toll of Assyrians totalled 2770 men, women and children.’

Prejudice against Islam is not irrational. Tolerating it most certainly is. Read what a young Winston Churchill had to say about Mohammedanism some time when you get a chance.

• I don’t ‘support’ Islamists.

I find that a little hard to believe. You brand everyone opposing the mosque as racists, bigots etc., then comment: “… once again there will be opposition. In this context of organised public expressions of Islamophobia and xenophobia…”. If you support the building of mosques, then logically (to me, anyway), you support Islam or the Islamists who will use them. If you don’t support the building of mosques, then why are you campaigning against rallies that oppose just that? If you are campaigning against the UPF alone, then that is not the message that I get from your blogs.

Anyway, believe what you want to believe, ignore what you want to ignore. I’ve bothered you enough so I’ll endeavour to refrain from commenting again.

It would be a shame if you refrained from ever expressing your opinion again.

As much as you seem unwilling or incapable of distinguishing amongst the obvious diversity of Muslims and Muslim belief and practice in Australia, and as much as you prefer instead to default in all instances to a simplistic conflation of all things ‘Islamic’ with your colourful archetype Muslim bogeyman, there is nonetheless a semblance of earnest sincerity in your assumption that yours are the views of “regular Aussies”. My unsolicited advice for you is to keep expressing yourself but expand your reading list.

“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them”
– Mark Twain

OK — that’s a normative statement: people *should* hate Islam; if they do not, they simply do not understand it. FWIW, I think ‘normal people’ demonstrate an array of attitudes to Islam, some of which are deeply hostile, others sympathetic.

“After all, it is a violent, supremacist ideology akin to Nazism and it will by its nature never change.”

O RLLY.

“The rally attendees may hate Muslims – at the very least they might question the morality of those who follow the teachings of a psychopath. If they fear Islam, it would not be unfounded. Assyrian Christians alone have experienced 30 genocides at the hands of Muslims – occurring on average every 45 years. This is an extract of an eyewitness account of one incident in 1918 …”

The rally-goers expressed views similar to yr own: “Muslims Out!”
That Muslims — like Christians and followers of other religions — have committed atrocities is hardly controversial.

“Prejudice against Islam is not irrational. Tolerating it most certainly is. Read what a young Winston Churchill had to say about Mohammedanism some time when you get a chance.”

Churchill expressed a variety of opinions, yes, including inre Mohammedans, Jews and more. Certainly, if I wanted to be more familiar w the views of a reactionary imperialist, reading Churchill is one option.

“You brand everyone opposing the mosque as racists, bigots etc., then comment: “… once again there will be opposition. In this context of organised public expressions of Islamophobia and xenophobia…”. If you support the building of mosques, then logically (to me, anyway), you support Islam or the Islamists who will use them. If you don’t support the building of mosques, then why are you campaigning against rallies that oppose just that? If you are campaigning against the UPF alone, then that is not the message that I get from your blogs.”

The concerns that have been expressed by opponents of the mosque in Bendigo are fanciful, yes. The campaign reflects a body of opinion within Australia that may be described as racist or as Islamophobic. Opposition to the public expression of irrational prejudice, whether aimed at Muslims or Jews or some other group, is worthy, I think. The UPF is a fascist organisation and as an anti-fascist, yes, I oppose it too.

As a general principle, I neither support nor oppose the building of mosques. Rather, all things being equal, I believe that people of faith should be able to express that faith, including thru the construction of places of worship if that is what they wish to do. (If a mosque was scheduled for construction on a site containing some rare species of flora or fauna or performing a particularly important role in a local ecosystem, I would oppose it.) Opposition to Islamophobia does not entail any commitment to Islamic religious teachings, any more than opposition to anti-Semitism entails acceptance of Judaism. I am an atheist. Beyond this, I believe that it’s possible — in fact, is an everyday occurrence — for people of different faiths and none to engage in respectful dialogue on matters of faith, politics, society and much more. In this context, I think what is required is a process of demsytification and popular education — this video contains one example of the possibilities of the fruits of such a dialogue.

My comment read “In my opinion any normal person…”, and is based on extensive reading. And again, in my opinion, the core values of Islam as they relate to kafirs are completely and irredeemably vile. Rashid may talk about the diversity of Muslims, but (to my knowledge), only one of the sects rejects the violence of the Koran towards kafirs and are viewed as apostates accordingly. Muslims are obliged to emulate Mohammed (Sunnah), and I have already stated what that entails. If they don’t follow the Sunnah, then this makes them a good person despite their ideology – they could not possibly be a good person because of it… in my opinion. And I repeat; what kind of person follows the depraved teachings of a psychopath anyway? How credible would anyone sound, saying, “I follow the teachings of Hitler but I’m not a bad person, and Nazism is just misunderstood”? Or, “I’m a Nazi but I don’t believe the bad bits”.

ablokeimet has referred to the “persecution of Muslims for their faith”. If Nazis/fascists were persecuted, would ablokeimet complain? @ndy is trying to persecute fascists, or at least subdue them. Is that wrong? What some seem to fail to grasp, is that Islam is NOT just a religion – it is a culture and comes complete with its own political system (sharia). Sharia law does not just apply to Muslims – it applies to non-Muslims (kafirs) and makes a kafir inferior in every sense to a Muslim. Perhaps you’re familiar with the concept of dhimmitude? So all I can say about Muslims being persecuted for their “faith”, is that they deserve it… in my opinion. @ndy summarily dismisses my view of Islam as being akin to Nazism, but I wonder whether @ndy has read the Islamic trilogy.

It surprises me that ablokeimet can on the one hand support Islamists in Australia, then state that political Islam must be opposed. If you oppose political Islam, then you ipso facto must oppose religious Islam, as Islam is the totality of the religious and political aspects. Where there is religious Islam, there will always be political Islam. The Koran dictates both religious and political behaviour; is perfect, being the word of Allah, and as such can never be changed. Given time and enough Muslims, it is inevitable that political Islam will flex its muscles – hence my vehement opposition to the importation of Muslims into free nations. Mass prayers in the streets of the U.S. and Europe… political Islam. Demands for sharia-compliant lending… political Islam. Footbaths in bathrooms… political Islam, etc. etc. until the final assault on a nation’s freedoms comes. Name another religion that requires the accommodations that Muslims demand…

My comment about “hating your countrymen”, stands, though I am not a supporter of the right (or left). ablokeimet – you claim that supporters of Islam just have a different opinion about what constitutes an Australia worth living in. Hmm, let me think. For a start they must also not care about women or homosexuals. So perhaps the future Australia is one worth living in only if you’re a male (preferably Muslim), and not a homosexual?

I guess you view such things through a lens of cultural relativism, and @ndy will dismiss it as “a crap site”, despite containing verifiable information.

As for being an internationalist, well, I’ve never heard such a load of bullshit in my life. Yes, we are incredibly lucky to live in a nice country with freedoms for everyone – let’s keep it that way. That is not to say that I am an isolationist or a racist. And I’m sorry, but you must be naive in the extreme if you believe that bickering between people will miraculously go away when nation states are dissolved. That would require groupthink.

The bogeyman was known in many cultures for stealing children in the night. Quite appropriate then that Rashid refers to the Muslim bogeyman, as it has been common from the outset of Islam for children to be taken and forced into the “religion”. Mohammed himself did this after the battle of the trench:

After first murdering the children’s fathers, enslaving their mothers and letting his troops rape the women (in fact instructing them on the “rules” of rape). It was also the practise of the Ottoman Turks to forcibly take young Christian boys from their parents (who were in a state of dhimmitude with severe restrictions placed upon them), to raise as Muslims and for those boys to serve in the Jannisary. This was known as devshirme. Slavery in general has been integral to Islam – Mohammed himself was a slaver.

As for Rashid’s suggestion to read “good books”; would those be books that whitewash the 1400 years of Islamic aggression towards the West and a significant part of the remainder of the world? That reinforce the mantra that Islam is the religion of peace? Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi (leader of ISIS with a Ph.D in Islamic Studies), says ‘Islam was never a religion of peace. Islam is the religion of fighting’. But hey, what does he know? I would politely suggest that perhaps Rashid follow this advice:

“Keep reading books, but remember that a book is only a book, and you should learn to think for yourself.”

–Maxim Gorky

And Rashid, if you read my comments properly, there was never an assertion or even the implication that my view is that of “regular Aussies”. My contention is that the people attending the mosque protests (other than the UPF perhaps), are regular Aussies with very well-founded concerns about Islam.

“That Muslims — like Christians and followers of other religions — have committed atrocities is hardly controversial.”

I don’t dispute that, @ndy, but the scale, incredible violence and sustained nature of Islamic atrocities through jihad, stands them apart from the rest. The violence towards non-believers is also codified in the Islamic trilogy (Koran, Sira and Hadiths). To understand Islam requires one to look only as far as the actions of Mohammed. Islam is Mohammed, Mohammed is Islam. And again, Mohammed was not a nice individual. I am an atheist, but it is not difficult for me to see that Jesus and Mohammed for instance, are like chalk and cheese.

@ndy, notwithstanding that Churchill’s comments on Islam are spot on, I have to agree with you that many of his actions don’t speak well of him. I am intrigued by “Churchill on Jews” however, as he was most definitely pro. Is that a problem?

About that video, @ndy. Within under three minutes the Islam apologist says something that is completely false, i.e. demonstrates taqiyya – a principle used by Islamists and apologists to deceive kafirs (he then goes into misrepresent what taqiyya actually is), then follows up with a half-truth (the Islamic concept of kitman). If anyone ever claims to be a scholar of Islam, disregard anything they say unless it agrees with the Sunnah (words and actions of Mohammed). In short, that bloke was full of s&[email protected] Mohammed said, “War is deceit”, and Islam has used, and continues to use, deceit to great effect.

I’m always surprised that the doctrine and history of Islam itself cannot convince people that it has no place in our society. In my own case, I never started out with any preconceptions about Islam, but have come to my (very strong) views through actually learning about it. I oppose all ideologies however – Islam being but one of them. It also disappoints me that something as unworthy as Islam can create such division everywhere it goes.

This really will be my last communication as I’m beginning to repeat myself.

Pseudonymous: “ablokeimet has referred to the “persecution of Muslims for their faith”. If Nazis/fascists were persecuted, would ablokeimet complain? @ndy is trying to persecute fascists, or at least subdue them. Is that wrong? What some seem to fail to grasp, is that Islam is NOT just a religion – it is a culture and comes complete with its own political system (sharia).”

1. A Fascist organisation is a conspiracy to murder. As such, the appropriate way of dealing with it is through the use of reasonable force in self defence. I don’t, however, call on the State to suppress Fascism. That is the task of working class organisations.

2. It is a common argument on the Right these days to evade the question of freedom of religion by saying that “Islam is not a religion, it’s an ideology. It is an all-encompassing world view that dictates how you must behave and how society must be arranged”. Well, I have news for you. ANY world religion, seriously believed, is that sort of ideology. I should know, since I was brought up a Catholic. And Protestants, too, can fall into this category. Jehovah’s Witnesses, for example, are very strict in their teachings – and they get persecuted for it, too, in some countries. Finally, John Calvin himself ran a very unpleasant theocracy in Geneva in the middle of the 16th Century.

The arguments of Pseudonymous revolve around two strategies, which are common to the current Islamophobic campaign:

1. The selection and recitation of atrocities committed by some identifiably Muslim actor; and

2. Quotation from the Koran to argue that these atrocities are essentially Muslim and not an aberration or some “optional extra”.

This strategy omits the huge sweep of history in which Muslims have acted in ways contrary to the atrocities mentioned. This is usually not a problem when dealing with audiences in Western countries, since a vanishingly small proportion of the population have sufficient knowledge of Muslim societies and their history to provide evidence for counter-examples. It is, however, a problem for the intellectual credibility of the argument.

Another problem for that argument is that it can be applied to other religions, too. Just looking at the text that Christians call the Old Testament and Jews call the Torah, we can see multiple accounts of genocide. Importantly, we see that several of these genocides were, allegedly, explicitly ordered by God. We also have evidence from the Book of Leviticus, where capital punishment is ordained for sins such as homosexuality, wearing clothes of two different threads, or eating shellfish. Like many people, I have several polyester/cotton garments in my wardrobe, so the argument of Pseudonymous should lead me to be fearful of encounters with Christians.

In reality, any religious text is subject to multiple interpretations. These interpretations vary across time and place. For most of the history of Christianity, religious tolerance has not existed. It was established as a State religion shortly after the death of the Roman Emperor Constantine (being a canny politician, he ensured he encouraged Christianity while technically remaining a pagan and then officially converted on his death bed). Despite the attempts of the Emperors to enforce uniformity, doctrines diverged over time as theologians found issues to dispute and different arguments gained currency in different regions. Additionally, different compromises were made with subjects in various provinces where they were reluctant to abandon their ancient deities and had them baptised as saints. Anybody who thinks St Christopher was a real person just hasn’t been paying attention.

The significance of this account is that the various strands of Christianity have been, until relatively recent times, mutually intolerant. Each strand has, where possible, attempted to use what State power that was at its disposal to enforce conformity to its doctrine and extinction of its rivals. The Middle Ages saw some bloody Crusades against heretics within Europe, while everybody has heard about the Spanish Inquisition (even if they know nothing of its details).

Most strands of Islam today are intolerant of diversity. Not only do they see non-Muslim religions as opponents to be eliminated in some way when conditions allow, but they see other strands of Islam in the same light. In some cases, their feelings about the matter are even more intense in regard to rival strands of Islam than they are to non-Muslim religions. Where I differ from Pseudonymous is that I think that Islam can learn tolerance, like Christianity was forced to. The 30 Years War established religious pluralism in Europe, as the various Kings, Princes and Grand Dukes ended up agreeing to differ about what religion to establish in their respective domains, while the English Revolution succeeded by uniting all Protestants in freedom of creed in order to fight for the supremacy of Parliament against the Divine Right of Kings and the return of the Church of Rome.

The conflict raging in West Asia, where particularly bloodthirsty Sunni Muslim jihadis are doing battle with, amongst other opponents, Alawite and Shi’ite forces which are just as murderous even if they prefer modern weapons and don’t put their crimes up on You Tube, is a learning process. The bloodshed will continue, and the field of conflict will widen, until such time as the survivors agree to live and let live. A lot of blood may be spilt in the meantime, but eventually the murderous zealots will burn themselves out.

Meanwhile, many Western societies have acquired reasonable sized minorities of Muslims. Many people who hold views similar to Pseudonymous advocate policies which would certainly turn Muslims into a persecuted and besieged community within the larger host society. It is precisely this environment which would make the arguments of the jihadis most credible and attractive. Persecution of this sort would drive vast numbers of Muslims in the West into the arms of the jihadis.

On the other hand, an open and tolerant society, in which Muslims can participate without discrimination or harrassment, is fatal to the jihadis’ plans. If Muslims are free to practice their faith without discrimination or harrassment, the vast majority will find the prospect of jihad unappealing. They will discover the attractions of toleration as they compare the societies in which they live with the bloodbath being conducted in the heartland of the faith to which they cleave. Certainly, some will want to depart to take a side in that bloodbath. The one thing better than these people dying on the field of battle would be having them return home disillusioned, to tell friends and relatives that their cause was perverted and that jihad isn’t what it’s cracked up to be.

How long will this go on for? Europe took 30 years to learn. This lot may take that long, too.