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I wonder what changed... Last year their president said they would "never comment" on negotiations in the press... and yet, that's pretty much all they did regarding Dish prior to when Dish dropped the channels.

One would think AMC would not have spoken to the press (or created that Web site) until after the contract expired IF they were true to their mantra... but it would seem they only feel that way when it suits them.

I wonder what changed... Last year their president said they would "never comment" on negotiations in the press... and yet, that's pretty much all they did regarding Dish prior to when Dish dropped the channels.

One would think AMC would not have spoken to the press (or created that Web site) until after the contract expired IF they were true to their mantra... but it would seem they only feel that way when it suits them.

Man, you just can't avoid a chance to take shots at AMC can you? I suspect there is a difference in negotiations with someone "in the family" as in a show on your network and with a provider.

If you're going to start the taking shots game back up, the where is the rate drop for Dish subscribers now that they have the whatever millions in their pocket that they were paying AMC? Since this is all about taking care of their subscribers? Dish dropped AMC off and the other channels off their list, added nothing new to replace it, and I'm still paying what I was paying when I was able to watch AMC. To use your consistency logic, if Dish is just trying to keep their subscribers costs down and was "true to their mantra", that new money in Dish's pocket should be used to reduce subscriber rates.

Man, you just can't avoid a chance to take shots at AMC can you? I suspect there is a difference in negotiations with someone "in the family" as in a show on your network and with a provider.

If you're going to start the taking shots game back up, the where is the rate drop for Dish subscribers now that they have the whatever millions in their pocket that they were paying AMC? Since this is all about taking care of their subscribers? Dish dropped AMC off and the other channels off their list, added nothing new to replace it, and I'm still paying what I was paying when I was able to watch AMC. To use your consistency logic, if Dish is just trying to keep their subscribers costs down and was "true to their mantra", that new money in Dish's pocket should be used to reduce subscriber rates.

I wasn't even looking for that article... I promise you... I was actually in another conversation elsewhere and discussing budgets of shows, and someone compared Breaking Bad's Budget with Once Upon a Time... and I was looking for some numbers about Breaking Bad, and accidentally found that article.

But you surely see the difference, don't you? Dish says they want to "keep costs down" which is probably marketing speak, I grant you... but if Dish doesn't raise your rates they kept costs down... if Dish doesn't raise your rates as much as cable or DirecTV, again they kept costs down.

Dish never promised or hinted that Dish would give you a refund for lost channels...

and yet...

Are you truly so disingenuous with this question?

Did you not see all the posts of people who contacted Dish and said they were going to miss their favorite shows on AMC... and Dish gave a variety of monthly credits for the year + sent out a bunch of free Rokus + offered credits to people who bought the AMC shows on iTunes or wherever...

So didn't Dish in this case actually in fact give money back to customers who asked? Which is exactly what you are saying they should have done... so, what else were you wanting them to give back?

I wasn't even looking for that article... I promise you... I was actually in another conversation elsewhere and discussing budgets of shows, and someone compared Breaking Bad's Budget with Once Upon a Time... and I was looking for some numbers about Breaking Bad, and accidentally found that article.

But you surely see the difference, don't you? Dish says they want to "keep costs down" which is probably marketing speak, I grant you... but if Dish doesn't raise your rates they kept costs down... if Dish doesn't raise your rates as much as cable or DirecTV, again they kept costs down.

Dish never promised or hinted that Dish would give you a refund for lost channels...

and yet...

Are you truly so disingenuous with this question?

Did you not see all the posts of people who contacted Dish and said they were going to miss their favorite shows on AMC... and Dish gave a variety of monthly credits for the year + sent out a bunch of free Rokus + offered credits to people who bought the AMC shows on iTunes or wherever...

So didn't Dish in this case actually in fact give money back to customers who asked? Which is exactly what you are saying they should have done... so, what else were you wanting them to give back?

Believe me, they didn't give away nearly what they put in their pocket. Not even close. Plus, if their mantra is we're looking out for our customers pocket books and that is why we aren't negotiating with AMC the they should have just given the money back to the customers, including those who were paying for AMC and weren't watching, and the vast majority of people who don't read forums etc and didn't get a $40 Roku. What did I want them to give back? Drop our subscription rates by the amount they were paying for the AMC networks rather than take away the channels and put the extra money in their pockets.

Believe me, they didn't give away nearly what they put in their pocket. Not even close. Plus, if their mantra is we're looking out for our customers pocket books and that is why we aren't negotiating with AMC the they should have just given the money back to the customers, including those who were paying for AMC and weren't watching, and the vast majority of people who don't read forums etc and didn't get a $40 Roku. What did I want them to give back? Drop our subscription rates by the amount they were paying for the AMC networks rather than take away the channels and put the extra money in their pockets.

You do not have to read internet forums to realize there are channels missing on your Dish receiver if you actually watch them and care about them. If you do then you will call in, ask what is up and Dish will work with you. If you do not watch them and could care less about the programming that is offered then you are recieving everything you have been paying Dish for. Why would Dish be required to automatically refund the money back to all subscribers? They just need to make those few that are unhappy, happy again. I also believe this will manifest itself in the form of a lower overall increase in rates or possibly no increase in rates in the short term.

I'm glad you have faith that all that extra money in Dish's pocket might, maybe result in perhaps lower increases on the future. What is not a maybe is Dish no longer carries the channels and they are putting all that extra cash in their own pockets today. Instant increased profits from providing fewer viewing options. Looks like same thing may happen with the Big 10 Network. Ugh

I'm glad you have faith that all that extra money in Dish's pocket might, maybe result in perhaps lower increases on the future. What is not a maybe is Dish no longer carries the channels and they are putting all that extra cash in their own pockets today. Instant increased profits from providing fewer viewing options. Looks like same thing may happen with the Big 10 Network. Ugh

How much extra cash?

And are you subtracting out what Dish gave away in the form of credits and Rokus and other things?

By all accounts, we are talking well under a dollar for AMC per subscriber... and Dish was handing out more than $1 per month in credits weren't they?

I'm not saying Dish is saintly... but they aren't evil either... and just because you don't see your bill go down doesn't mean you don't see the savings in the form of less of an increase next year.

Everyone wants an instant credit when a channel drops, but nobody wants to instantly have their bill go up when a channel is added. We have gotten several new channels this year... did our bills go up when those channels were added? By your logic, don't you and others owe Dish for those new channels?

And are you subtracting out what Dish gave away in the form of credits and Rokus and other things?

By all accounts, we are talking well under a dollar for AMC per subscriber... and Dish was handing out more than $1 per month in credits weren't they?

I'm not saying Dish is saintly... but they aren't evil either... and just because you don't see your bill go down doesn't mean you don't see the savings in the form of less of an increase next year.

Everyone wants an instant credit when a channel drops, but nobody wants to instantly have their bill go up when a channel is added. We have gotten several new channels this year... did our bills go up when those channels were added? By your logic, don't you and others owe Dish for those new channels?

A dollar for every subscriber. I bet they gave out very few credits compared to total subscriber base/total money in pocket. For example I called and they offered me nothing in terms of credits, just told me I could use my Xbox to get the AMC shows online. I was leaving on business travel that afternoon and didn't call back to try to play the game of getting bumped up to next level,etc. Buddy at work never called them, never occurred to him there was any reason to call when AMC was dropped "just to get some phone support guy reading from scripts."

Again, I was only responding to your bumping the thread to take more shots at AMC and your stretch on their "consistency" of policy.

That's rumored to be what AMC demanded. It's believed they were only getting somewhere around a quarter, maybe .30 or so.

It would cost them more in paperwork and staff time to push a .30/mo credit to everyone who was in a tier that had AMC.

Really? No paperwork, though I assume you're using that term in a literal sense. I'd think a few key strokes would credit the right accounts in a jif. One staff member, audited by another. But it's not in the cards, anyway, and the alternatives that Dish offered to customers was much more meaningful.

For example I called and they offered me nothing in terms of credits, just told me I could use my Xbox to get the AMC shows online. I was leaving on business travel that afternoon and didn't call back to try to play the game of getting bumped up to next level,etc. Buddy at work never called them, never occurred to him there was any reason to call when AMC was dropped "just to get some phone support guy reading from scripts."

Again, I was only responding to your bumping the thread to take more shots at AMC and your stretch on their "consistency" of policy.

If that is all you were offered then three things come to mind:

1. You must be on the very bottom rung of Dish customers because when I called I did not need to play any games to be offered several options including a substantial monthly credit for a year. In fact my call was followed up on three times by Dish reps over a 4 week period to insure what I received was sufficient and that I continued to be a happy Dish customer. I think that level of follow-up is commendable on the part of Dish and shows that they are concerned about their customers.

2. You called in but did not express how disappointed you actually are with losing the programming.

3. You are a customer in good standing but did not bother to call in at all.

1. You must be on the very bottom rung of Dish customers because when I called I did not need to play any games to be offered several options including a substantial monthly credit for a year. In fact my call was followed up on three times by Dish reps over a 4 week period to insure what I received was sufficient and that I continued to be a happy Dish customer. I think that level of follow-up is commendable on the part of Dish and shows that they are concerned about their customers.

2. You called in but did not express how disappointed you actually are with losing the programming.

3. You are a customer in good standing but did not bother to call in at all.

Or 4 I got a CSR who read their script and was only interested in getting me off the phone, which was pretty clearly the case. But I did not spend a lot of time following up.

Not on the bottom rung ( high bill, never missed a payment or late, etc.) but my point was that the number of people to whom temp credits of some type were given we're extremely small compared to the total subscriber base.

But we're beating this horse to a pulp. Those who choose to believe Dish did what they did out of a golden heart for their customers will not be argued out of that position. Nor those who think otherwise.

You sound like someone who would be happier if Dish raised your monthly bill each time they added a channel in that month, or perhaps gave more in other ways then raised your bill that month, and then reduced your bill if a channel is dropped.

...but my point was that the number of people to whom temp credits of some type were given we're extremely small compared to the total subscriber base.

But the "total subscriber base" didn't lose AMC... Only people who subscribe to the tier that included AMC lost it... and of those, clearly by AMC's own ratings estimates most of those customers who subscribed and were paying for AMC never were watching it anyway... and thus didn't notice when it went away.

So... a relatively small amount of Dish's customers were actually affected... and it sounded to me like every one of those customers who called were able to coerce Dish into giving them some manner of freebie or credit or both.

You can't count all of Dish's 14 million subscribers when most of those did not subscribe to the tier that AMC was included in, and even of those most of them didn't watch even though they could have.

You would have to come back with a number of Dish customers who actually watched programming on AMC (like I assume most of us in this thread would be counted amongst) and then make your claim of how many received credits vs those subscriber numbers.

Oops... My above post (left as it is so people don't think I'm trying to hide my mistake) was written assuming AMC had been in the AT250 package... but I've been made aware that it was in fact in the AT200.

So... part of my assertion was incorrect.

Turns out... Most of Dish subscribers were subscribed to a tier that included AMC... so most customers did lose a channel... but my secondary assertion still holds, based on AMC's ratings, that far fewer people actually watched AMC than were paying for it.

Stewart, I would assume that AMC (and other networks) have "sporadic" viewers (like us) that tune in when a series that interests them is broadcast. We have all of the premiums, but may not watch one for months at a time. It would seem to make more sense, from a statistical point of view, to track the viewing habits of the subscribers over an entire year of programming. Many subscribers may not watch AMC until TWD or MM is on, esp. TWD. That is why AMC is making such a big deal out of Dish dropping their channels, as I'm sure a large amount of Dish subscribers watch TWD.

AMC can certainly survive w/o Dish, but then what about their contracts with DTV, Comcast, etc. Surely they can't just alienate all of the other providers. The optimist in me is hoping for a resolution in time for TWD. I've always been happy with Dish, and have a lot on the DVR, but want my zombie fix . . .

Please excuse this question, as it may be common knowledge, but what does "DBS" stand for? Your dedication to the forum is appreciated. I wish I had time to read more of the informative posts!!

Edited by joyandjerry, 29 August 2012 - 12:23 PM.Typo

JOY

Walking a fine line between intellectual curiosity and information overload!