First, welcome to FTE boggin. There have been so many rumors about Ford and Cummins over the years, I cant even keep track of them now. To the best of my knowledge, there are NO connections between the two companies. Ford has Navistar for their diesel motors, and its been that way for MANY years.

(3) Isuzu entered into a joint development partnership with Navistar International. Stock interests were traded. Eventually, one of the projects would be a 7.3L V-8 light-duty diesel. Guess who picked that one up for use in its pickup trucks?

(4) Navistar also had entered into a joint development partnership with Caterpillar. One of the projects was a direct injection system that would be picked up by -- Ford. And Isuzu mediums.

(5) Caterpillar owned a large chunk of Bosch. GM owned another big chunk. And so did a third major player -- Daimler Benz. Bosch was the primary developer of Caterpillar's direct injection system. But GM forced Caterpillar to turn over its share of Bosch, and then forced Bosch to abandon direct injection in favor of developing an "improved" generation rotary injection pumps. The initial designs for those pumps had been brought to GM by former Isuzu engineers working for Ford.

(6) What did Caterpillar receive in return for giving GM its stock in Bosch? GM's stock in Cummins. Ford then sold its small share of Cummins stock because of antitrust regulations in the U.S. Caterpillar, on the other hand, avoided antitrust problems by a joint incorporation agreement with Cummins under a Brazilian operation named Inquardo, Ltd.

(7) Eventually almost all Cummins manufacturing and design were moved over to that part of the "house". However, that move proved so efficient and profitable that Cummins began to eat into significant markets for Caterpillar, so Caterpillar merged its manufacturing and design base with Cummins in Brazil, leaving skeleton operations only in places like Peoria, Illinois. Cummins management largely pushed out Caterpillar management after several years.

(8) With me so far? Caterpillar owns Cummins, but Cummins has effectively "eaten" Caterpillar. In Brazil. Here, they're separate, of course, but it's only the purposes of adhering to American commercial law. But wait. There's more.

(9) Ford had some disasterous capitalization-and-flow problems after the overseas buying spree of the early nineties, during which it acquired British Leyland, Isuzu, Fuji, part of Fiat, and parts of other companies. Ford was forced to sell Isuzu to maintain cash flow beyond the U.S. Who did they sell Isuzu to? Navistar International. Along with certain manufacturing and sourcing arrangements. Navistar hoped to go global again, as in the grand old days of International Harvester.

(10) But Navistar couldn't hold on to Isuzu either, what with a $2 billion dollar loss in 1995, and eventually sold its controlling interest in the company to Daimler Benz.

(11) Isuzu was having its own problems, since its global market share in light and medium diesels was rapidly shrinking. The cause of the problem was Cummins, which, after swallowing Caterpillar - in Brazil - had also acquired NGT, Tapei Technologies, Allison Canada, and Nansen-Renault, all in hostile takeovers, all manufacturers of diesel technologies outside of the U.S. So, Cummins had effectively cornered the controlling share of the global market outside of North America and Western Europe. (Why do you think the splashgate at their website is so heavily global?)

(12) After nine months of negotiation, Cummins and its subsidiary, Allison Canada, entered into a joint development arrangement with Isuzu, owned by Daimler, and with the surviving U.S. corporation, Allison, which was at that point partly owned by GM. Cummins, however, dominated the partnership, and eventually managed to assume Daimler's and GM's interests in Isuzu and and Allison.

(13) In the case of Isuzu, Cummins has an equal partnership with Daimler, which, of course, has also acquired Chrysler Corporation. That's why, when Ford offered Cummins a billion-dollar package to manfacture medium and light truck diesels for its vehicles in 2001, Cummins said no. Again, for antitrust reasons, a public holding company was set up to handle Isuzu as a separate corporate entity. The name of the company is Benz Transporation Technologies, of San Paulo, Brazil. BTT also is a major owner of the Benz division of Daimler Chrysler, which manufacturers most of the diesel engines in Europe. In the case of Allison, Cummins controls it through a series of holding companies ending with Inquardo, Ltd., the orginal Caterpillar-Cummins creation in Brazil. Cummins also controls a fair-size block of stock in GM, through the ownership of a cartel of South Korean and Thai banks and investment groups.

(14) Navistar has continued its free-fall in spite of its partnership with Ford in the light-duty diesel area. Three weeks ago, after the implications of labor troubles, a rise in basic resource costs, and the disasterous introduction of the 6.0L PSD had become clear, Navistar's financial arrangements with Citibank and Manufacturers B&T collapsed. Both banks arranged to float the company infrastructural loans if it would agree to a merger with -- are you ready for this? -- Inquardo, Ltd. As of last Thursday, Cummins owns 67% of Navistar through Inquardo.

Right now, Cummins makes all diesels in all pickup trucks sold in the United States. Cummins makes 73% of all diesels in all trucks sold in the world. The board of directors at Inquardo -- which isn't listed on any stock exchange -- includes 9 Cummins execs, 2 Caterpillar execs, and one Wells Fargo Bank exec. The CEO and CFO are also Cummins vice presidents. And there are Cummins execs on the boards of Daimler Chrysler, General Motors, Toyota, and Honda America. Ford, the holdout, has not been doing very well.

So it isn't a question of who owns Cummins. It's a question of who Cummins owns, and who's next. Could be Ford. Could be DC. Could be both. Ford Viper, anyone? Mercedes Mustang with a 6.0L Shelby Diesel and a Holset twin turbo?

And some have claimed that the new Navistar/Ford 6.0L is Cummins' revenge for the Bosch VP44"

It was reported in ford world a few years ago that ford had bought into cummings, thats where people are getting it from, it was news a while back. I don't know where they stand now, but at one time ford had bought into cummings are was going to, the way the article told it, they allready had. This was maybe 5 or 6 years ago, you sorta loose track of time when you get old. But it isn't in peoples heads, it was news. The story reported that ford, a long with a texas oil man (un-named) were buying controling interest in cummings.

It was reported in ford world a few years ago that ford had bought into cummings, thats where people are getting it from, it was news a while back. I don't know where they stand now, but at one time ford had bought into cummings are was going to, the way the article told it, they allready had. This was maybe 5 or 6 years ago, you sorta loose track of time when you get old. But it isn't in peoples heads, it was news. The story reported that ford, a long with a texas oil man (un-named) were buying controling interest in cummings.

For could very well have bought into "cummings" but not Cummins. For those who doubt I beleive there is an article on the cummins(no "G") web site

That proves it, if cummings has to deny it, then there's a reason so many people think ford owns cummings, it's not made up in thier heads. Thier just putting a spin on it, I bet ford owns cummings lock, stock and barrel and thier trying to keep under wraps for some unknown reason. I sure remember when it made the news a few years ago. Maybe cummings is in denial that thier owned ha ha. It was also in the news a couple of years ago that ford bought into international and start a new heavy truck line called blue diamond. I haven't seen any blue diamond trucks yet, but ford sure likes to keep using international engines, when they have given them so many problems. I heard that the new f-150 v6 diesel was going to be built in house, I'll believe that when I see it.

That proves it, if cummings has to deny it, then there's a reason so many people think ford owns cummings, it's not made up in thier heads. Thier just putting a spin on it, I bet ford owns cummings lock, stock and barrel and thier trying to keep under wraps for some unknown reason. I sure remember when it made the news a few years ago. Maybe cummings is in denial that thier owned ha ha. It was also in the news a couple of years ago that ford bought into international and start a new heavy truck line called blue diamond. I haven't seen any blue diamond trucks yet, but ford sure likes to keep using international engines, when they have given them so many problems. I heard that the new f-150 v6 diesel was going to be built in house, I'll believe that when I see it.

Like I said ford may own "Cummings" but Cummins is and isn't owned. They're there own company. The reasoning for peoples beliefs behind this is because Ford sales men tell ignorant buyers that Ford actually owns Cummins, this creates the illusion that Ford is all powerful and that Dodge needs Ford engines to make their trucks efficent. There isn't really an argument to be made here, Cummins says Ford has nothing to do with them, and if Ford REALLY did own Cummins, Why wouldnt they use them?

On a side note were not just using slang, The company is called Cummins not "Cummings" (But thanks for the laugh though)

No salesman ever told me that, I read it in ford world, but who cares anyway ? If your were a dodge truck buyer, it may make a difference, but for ford guy's, we have international. So it don't help us if ford owned them or not. However, cummings was in the running to build the v6 diesel for the ford f-150, then I heard inter-trash-nal got it, then I heard it would be built in house, so who knows.

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