So I asked one of the black belts last night about KK guys dealing with face punches and he said that he didn't think that it would be a problem for a couple of reasons. First, the trained KK fighter will be a much better technical fighter than your average untrained street-brawler. Second, although the rules of KK tournaments don't allow punches to the face, it often happens that uppercuts and other punches intended for the body miss their mark and land on the chin. So KK practitioners have to be vigilant of face punches even in training/tournament.

I still think they would be at a disadvantage if fighting a trained fighter such as a boxer who is accustomed to delivering and receiving a high volume of face punches.

I agree. I have seen KK fighters in action in New York, and they seem to be a step above most other styles in the way they slam at each other.

If we are talking sport fighting, I agree that against trained boxers they would have problems with the punching, but then again so would any other style.

As to street self defense I have no doubt that KK fighters would do well in delivering punches to the face as well as protecting against incoming punches from the average punk.

But I still stand by my views that for any of us karate-ka _ it is a grave mistake to teach punches to the head of street opponents with the bare fist, other than the hammer fist and possibly the back fist aimed at the side of the head and not to the teeth area.

Though_Teaching how to evade/block/redirect incoming face punches is a must.

But I still stand by my views that for any of us karate-ka _ it is a grave mistake to teach punches to the head of street opponents with the bare fist, other than the hammer fist and possibly the back fist aimed at the side of the head and not to the teeth area.

Yes, I agree and that's why I love the Uechi hand techniques. I was looking at this site: http://www.westislandkarate.com/handtechniques.html and it looks as though a lot of those alternative hand techniques do exist in the KK curriculum but with the exception of the uraken we don't train them often. I just did a noon-hour class and we were doing partner drills alternating block a face punch and countering via seiken to the face ... it made me smile thinking about the discussion here.

Quote"I agree. We can talk about styles all we want, in the end it is the person behind the style that we need to worry about."

I think that it's not so much about "styles" as lack of knowledge even within style ..........but even then some styles are questionable ....on another thread I talked about Tai chi, now how many people could use that in a fight, there are a lot more people who would like to ponce around doing new age movements, slow tranquil ways to find the centre of the universe ....and I think that there are a lot of folks doing that, certainly with Wing Chun which was my last port of call.there were idiots who didn't have any explananation of the form, nor any fighting ability............so maybe it's not so much about style as lack of knowledge....and I found it quite sad, one of my teachers was a really nice,genuine guy, he'd been to China many times......yet he didn't know squat

Some (even healthy looking) people are only barely alive on a day to day basis. You can't eyeball someone and judge whether they are on blood thinners, have a congenital heart, or arterial defect, have an unusual potential for stroke or similar condition. (For that matter, do you KNOW whether YOU have any of those conditions?)

Even a very healthy, strong, fit, young man can die from simply hitting his head on something wrong on the way down. 1n 1986, I lived in a small town where two college freshmen who were friends and I think even roommates got into a friendly fight. It wasn't a serious event. It was the kind of scuffle that you'd expect to end in a bloody nose or a black eye but nothing more.

Anyway, one of them lost his balance when he caught a weak and sloppy punch (certainly not a "knockout blow"). He hit (just bumped, really) his head on a car bumper on the way down and died from a brain injury.

I have to admit that the reason I started training martial arts as an adult was from the realization that it's truly a jungle out there and that you don't necessarily have to go looking for trouble for trouble to find you.

Jorvik - Of the 3 styles of Taijichaun, the Chen style is the one that has apparently retained its martial focus. The Yang and Wu styles that are prevalent in North America are more focused on producing health benefits in practitioners. Even so, based on what I have seen/heard of it, I would not even recommend the Chen style to someone as their primary style for self-defense.

I have to admit that the reason I started training martial arts as an adult was from the realization that it's truly a jungle out there and that you don't necessarily have to go looking for trouble for trouble to find you.

Quote"Jorvik - Of the 3 styles of Taijichaun, the Chen style is the one that has apparently retained its martial focus. The Yang and Wu styles that are prevalent in North America are more focused on producing health benefits in practitioners. Even so, based on what I have seen/heard of it, I would not even recommend the Chen style to someone as their primary style for self-defense.

Well all styles of Tai Chi are proper martial arts, which is why they have such an awesome reputation. I have seen some of the applications and they do work...........the problem is a lot of people are not practising proper Tai Chi, they know a form, they think that the form is all there is and they practice it incorrectly, and believe that they have some real knowledge ....it's a bit like having a rifle and using it like a club......and as I've said I've have seen this in a lot of martial arts, sometimes with very sincere individuals whoch is sad.

Well all styles of Tai Chi are proper martial arts, which is why they have such an awesome reputation. I have seen some of the applications and they do work...........the problem is a lot of people are not practising proper Tai Chi, they know a form, they think that the form is all there is and they practice it incorrectly, and believe that they have some real knowledge ....it's a bit like having a rifle and using it like a club......and as I've said I've have seen this in a lot of martial arts, sometimes with very sincere individuals whoch is sad.

You may disagree, but I see it as being like Aikido. Sure, there are some accomplished practitioners who can actually apply the techniques in self-defense but it wouldn't be my first choice for self-defense because it takes so long to develop a functional level of proficiency before you can use it in real combat that it's not really practical as a base style. Also, like Aikido, it was probably not intended for untrained beginners but rather for senior yudansha in other styles who already knew how to fight and were looking for further improvement and subtle refinements in their game. Unfortunately, it seems that arts like Aikido and Taiji attract a lot of "softies" (for lack of a better term), who are seeking some kind of magical fight powers that will negate the need for the tough training that they would otherwise have to endure in other styles, when in fact the "toughening up" that they would get from training those other styles is probably what would benefit them the most.

Aikido is very similar to Tai Chi in application, by that I mean they look very similar.I would have to make a very long post to discuss either martial art of Tai Chi or Aikido. I think that you have to view them as part of the cultures that they come from, and there are different forms of Aikido as there are different forms of Tai Chi. I did Aikido and then studied a form of Aiki Jutsu, the Aiki Jutsu folks were all night club doormen, it was a rough school, I found the Aikido gave me an edge over them, because you move more fluidly than they do..but the old Jiu Jitsu/AikiJitsu styles had lots of punches and kicks etc...but it was all subserviant to the swordhere is some good Aikihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5Na1x6 ... r_embedded

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