As paypal is a registered company in most countries, if you receive a chargeback and can prove you sent the domain, why not issue the person you sent the domain to and paypal a small claims court summons. My bet is paypal would soon find in your favour and return the money to your account. Of course this wouldn't work in all countries and wouldn't work for large sums of money, but anyting (here in Australia) under $6000 I am 100% confident you would get your money.

And they thought me broken, that my tongue was coated lead, but I just couldn't make my words make sense to them, if you only listen with your ears ... I can't get in
Non ducor, duco

This is sort of a scary thread - as mentioned paypal seems to be growing by leaps and bounds.
But I am wondering - I can pretty much pull the money out of my paypal account almost immediately after it hits the PayPal Account . . . . what stops me as a seller from taking my money - considering that if there was a legitimate issue I would certainly return the funds - and if some scammer tried to charge the sale back - just closing the paypal account out and reopening another account - if there is no money in the PayPal account can they legally pull from the associated checking accounts or credit cards?
I am curious how anyone could really make this "work" on a larger scale for smaller transactions - as I know from previous commercial credit card processing work - that any MasterCard or Visa processors will quickly charge back any charge when a buyer complains - their perspective is that their customer is the buyer - NOT the seller - and actually if you have an above average amount of charge backs most credit card processors will shut down your processing entirely and freeze your accounts too - this is why the "adult" online industry has such a slew of very complicated and advanced credit card processing systems to spread out the inevitable charge backs from the angry spouses. This processing seems like a great business for Flippa (or someone) to START to help their sellers out??

With effect from a date to be confirmed by PayPal in due course (falling on or after the Effective Date), section 13 will be amended to make several improvements to the PayPal Buyer Protection policy. The amendments will:

Moneybox (Radio 4) said yesterday "The Intangibles
PayPal is no longer inflexible about making intangibles ineligible. Its indefensible policy is infeasible and invertible. A change is incontrovertible, ineludible, and irreversible. But is what it is doing inducible? Find out."

I listened but whatever it was didn't sink in - something about raising protection for purchasers to the level provided by credit cards.

Just to double check, you mean that it's now riskier for the seller, right?
I have now a seller asking me to pay via Paypal. I always went for Escrow or Transpact, but it's a small amount and I understand that Paypal will stand on buyer' side in case of dispute.

Just to double check, you mean that it's now riskier for the seller, right?
I have now a seller asking me to pay via Paypal. I always went for Escrow or Transpact, but it's a small amount and I understand that Paypal will stand on buyer' side in case of dispute.

Thanks

Paypal is risky for the buyer and seller. Paypal is going to stand on Paypal's side. If there's a genuine fraudster on either side of the transaction who absconds with the goods/money, do you really think Paypal is going to make it good out of their own money? Hell no! Escrow is less risky, but not without risk.

Paypal is risky for the buyer and seller. Paypal is going to stand on Paypal's side. If there's a genuine fraudster on either side of the transaction who absconds with the goods/money, do you really think Paypal is going to make it good out of their own money? Hell no! Escrow is less risky, but not without risk.

In fact, the change that Clinton mentioned is not in the user agreement in my country (Netherlands).
I see that intangible products are non eligible for Paypal Buyer Protection, so basically if a website is not delivered after payment you're on your own,right?

I have had no problems winning chargebacks with PayPal and digital media. In fact, I win just about all of them. I have for years. The secret is, the more third party proof you have something (digital) was delivered, the stronger your case. In my case I have e-junkie do my cc processing so there is a download record there. (1st. proof) I have .java DRM on my eBooks which have to be registered. (This proves they were received and opened. (2nd. Proof) I have tracking set up on any tangible products mailed. (3rd. proof) If there is any sort of dispute (With digital 99% of the time is is because of nondelivery) I compile the various proofs up in a .pdf and send it to Paypal. I haven't lost yet. If you give PayPal something to work with, they WILL go to bat for the seller. But if you don't cover your ass and expect them to do all the heavy lifting there isn't a lot they can do.

If it is a simple refund, then I just refund the amount and disable the eBook.

I've heard PayPal horror stories for the last 10-15 years. I have never had a problem with them. True, I have redundant systems in place if I ever do, and I make sure I drain the account every week or two anyway to be on the safe side, but so far it has been a preventative measure that has never borne fruit.

I've heard PayPal horror stories for the last 10-15 years. I have never had a problem with them.

I've also read the stories. Selling both digital goods and physical, the most they've ever done is freeze the amount of a transaction in dispute. Once the dispute was resolved, either by refund or proof the product was delivered, my funds were released.

Originally Posted by petertdavis

If there's a genuine fraudster on either side of the transaction who absconds with the goods/money, do you really think Paypal is going to make it good out of their own money?

I suppose if both sides to a transaction are criminals and this is known fraud, then it would not be PayPal's responsibility to guarantee a product. I have had PayPal both refund buyers -and- allow me to keep the payment for a sale (using their own money), both with digital and physical goods. (When this happens, I find it aggravating because I know the products were delivered and the buyers should not have been refunded.)

Originally Posted by dsieg58

If you give PayPal something to work with, they WILL go to bat for the seller.

PayPal doesn't build its business by making digital goods sales more risky for the seller. It's a matter of being professional as a business, and following PayPal guidelines. I am about to offer two new digital products for sale, and just reviewed the PayPal guidelines to see what, if anything, has changed. They have a Guide for digital goods, a Digital Goods FAQ, and a Best Practices Guide.

As a business-person and business owner, if you are properly licensed, handle disputes professionally, follow their rules to the letter, then PayPal is just fine. There is no growth if they feed cynicism about their service, as business owners can be quite vocal about anything which costs them money. Every merchant account has rules to follow to deal with problems. My experience is that PayPal is no different.

Originally Posted by danieleB

Just to double check, you mean that it's now riskier for the seller, right?
I have now a seller asking me to pay via Paypal.

So you're on the other side of the transaction as a customer. As a seller, I've always felt the buyer had the greater protections from PayPal, but they act just like any credit card processor. (If you wish to avoid the wrath of PayPal as a buyer with a dispute, don't ever dispute a charge through the credit card assigned to a PayPal transaction; Instead, dispute directly through PayPal.) The above guides will also help clarify what PayPal expects from your seller in digital goods transactions.