Wait, I thought trading him to Toronto in the first place was a terrible mistake. Seriously, I feel bad for him. Always did like him with the Sox, even when he wasn't getting it done.

__________________"I have the ultimate respect for White Sox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Red Sox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country." Jim Caple, ESPN (January 12, 2011)

"We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the (bleeding) obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." — George Orwell

Not getting it done? Did we have him long enough for that? The way I remember it, he pitched very well and we sold high. Am I forgetting something?

There was a lot written about the bright future Santos was expected to have because he was drafted as a shortstop (first-round pick in 2002), was even a top 40 prospect as an infielder and came to pitching late. The view was that he had great stuff and maturity without the wear on his arm.

And he came out looking great. The problem was that he had an ERA over 5 after July in 2010. He had obviously run out of gas in his first major league season. But as the Sox closer in 2011, he had an ERA over 9 in September.

Santos did have 30 saves for the Sox in 2011. Earlier in the season, it felt like it was going to be more, but late in the season he was more than a little shaky. He saved 2 and blew 2 save opportunities in September. In his last save for the White Sox, he gave up 2 runs in protecting what had been a 4-1 lead, leaving the bases loaded. (Oddly enough, the game was against Toronto. Flowers hit a 3-run homer against McGowan to decide the game, not for the last time such a thing would happen in McGowan's career against the Sox, but I digress.) In his last month with the Sox, Santos appeared in 10 games, pitching less than 9 innings, and gave up runs in 5 of those appearances. Since leaving the White Sox, he hasn't been able to put together a complete major league season.

The Sox signed him to what could have been a healthy contract in the off-season for a failed infield prospect-turned-reliever, but the best money was to come from team options beginning with the 2015 season.

It was a lose/lose trade, although the extent of the Sox loss is still tbd as Molina's still heaving it in Birmingham (and reasonably well out of the pen). Sox overvalued Molina's prospect value. Santos got hurt and obviously didn't do much.

It was a lose/lose trade, although the extent of the Sox loss is still tbd as Molina's still heaving it in Birmingham (and reasonably well out of the pen). Sox overvalued Molina's prospect value. Santos got hurt and obviously didn't do much.

I don't think it was simply a matter of Santos getting hurt. I think it was a matter of Santos not having much in him. I think the White Sox saw that as a possibility the way he wore down late in both of his seasons in Chicago. The way his contract was structured, he was going to have to prove himself to get to $6 million a season in 2015. He was a converted infielder who pitched fewer than 30 minor league innings before impressing in spring training (he had a minor league ERA in excess of 8, but struck out more a batter per inning in his only minor league season). When the White Sox saw an opportunity to trade Santos for a prospect with a higher ceiling, they did so

The fact is, Santos pitched fewer innings with the Blue Jays than he pitched in his rookie season with the White Sox. If you include his minor league innings in the Blue Jays system, he has pitched about as many innings since leaving the White Sox as he did in his last season with the White Sox.

Santos was a first-round pick, but as a pitcher he was a salvage project. He has some great moments with the White Sox, and his numbers were impressive, but they didn't indicate he was going to be a reliable major league reliever, let alone closer.

Not getting it done? Did we have him long enough for that? The way I remember it, he pitched very well and we sold high. Am I forgetting something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domeshot17

What a bust of a trade that turned out to be. I suppose you could say Toronto still won it fairly handedly as Molina sucks and Santos did give them some good innings when healthy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDog

There was a lot written about the bright future Santos was expected to have because he was drafted as a shortstop (first-round pick in 2002), was even a top 40 prospect as an infielder and came to pitching late. The view was that he had great stuff and maturity without the wear on his arm.

And he came out looking great. The problem was that he had an ERA over 5 after July in 2010. He had obviously run out of gas in his first major league season. But as the Sox closer in 2011, he had an ERA over 9 in September.

Santos did have 30 saves for the Sox in 2011. Earlier in the season, it felt like it was going to be more, but late in the season he was more than a little shaky. He saved 2 and blew 2 save opportunities in September. In his last save for the White Sox, he gave up 2 runs in protecting what had been a 4-1 lead, leaving the bases loaded. (Oddly enough, the game was against Toronto. Flowers hit a 3-run homer against McGowan to decide the game, not for the last time such a thing would happen in McGowan's career against the Sox, but I digress.) In his last month with the Sox, Santos appeared in 10 games, pitching less than 9 innings, and gave up runs in 5 of those appearances. Since leaving the White Sox, he hasn't been able to put together a complete major league season.

The Sox signed him to what could have been a healthy contract in the off-season for a failed infield prospect-turned-reliever, but the best money was to come from team options beginning with the 2015 season.

This is what I remember about Santos. Bouncing pitches way out of the zone during crucial ABs. We didn't sell high and we didn't get beat on the deal. As I said, I liked the guy and really wanted him to succeed but it wasn't to be.

I don't think it was simply a matter of Santos getting hurt. I think it was a matter of Santos not having much in him. I think the White Sox saw that as a possibility the way he wore down late in both of his seasons in Chicago.

That's probably true; but they still sold him really low. Face it, a lot of these trades are because the trading team thinks the player they are trading is statistically over-valued.

That's probably true; but they still sold him really low. Face it, a lot of these trades are because the trading team thinks the player they are trading is statistically over-valued.

I don't think the Sox sold low on Santos at all. The Blue Jays knew what they were getting. They finished the season against Santos. They weren't going by his statistics because they had scouted him at his weakest. I don't know that any team looking for relief help was only looking at Santos' numbers.

I expect that most teams making trades look at what they believe the player(s) they are getting could do for them balanced against what they could get out of whatever they are giving up. Fans and analysts dwell more on the stats of what the players have done.

One of my best buddies in college grew up in Iowa. As a kid, he adopted the Blue Jays as his favorite team since he didn't really have a home team to root for. I always respected him for being creative instead of becoming the typical Iowa Cubs mark. Anyway, he's never had anything good to say about Santos, labeling him as a "bum". The Sox did just fine in that trade. I think they knew what they had and what they were getting rid of.