argus33- that law will be broken every day. like so many others. i’ve been pulled over by police for a traffic infraction and the first thing they ask is “do you know why i pulled you over?” of course i say “no” and then the officer proceeds to tell me why and then i respond…”i didn’t know.” then the officer says “ignorance of the law is no excuse”. then i say “then why do lawyers have to go to law school?”

whereas before that statement i was gonna get one ticket, now im getting three or four. lol

E* you are so funny and quite the character I would love to carry on a conversation with you over here at the a team on TT OTC but it’s hard enough for me having a conversation with myself let alone allc the blog I try but I do love your input and reading your post you are a unique individual thank you

jdiggins – I like your posts, too. Tell Jenny and Dal/Goofy, for me,…would you please? Hey,…maybe searchers could sign a sort of online petition,…to get me out of modertion on those OTHER blogs? But it is so much more FREE and FUN,…over here at Mike’s. So maybe it is best that I keep doin’ what I’m doin’ here? I’m having a BLAST,…virtually unhindered (except when I tried to post the Entire History of Apple Computer, Inc.,…and the conflicts associated with the “Think Different” PR campaign,…that may have been just a little OFF TOPIC,…and over the top,…right, Mike?). Thank you for having a great blog here for us,…Mike,…once again,…and thank you, jdiggins,…for the nice compliment. I look forward to meeting you both,…at The Chase Victory Party! 🙂

Everyone – And as to Jenny’s comment about “IT” possibly being the first clue (See: how I am ON TOPIC, bob, here on Poem 1:1),…this one is for Astree and lia:

As I have gone alone in th’ AIR,

And then,…See: the Coriolis Effect,…as Forrest circles how “Ever” many times,…to land at West Yellowstone Airport. I know,…I know,…you may say Forrest was 78 when his pilot license expired,…but he said he likes to “bump the curb”,…so I don’t know if there was some way around that. Aren’t there some private airstrips nearby,…or maybe a Golf Course??? 😉

“Thanks Michael. The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone.f”

E* May 14, 2015 at 12:44 pm

Or,…maybe stay in Yellowstone National Park,…where you will have a nice vacation? Forrest enjoys being alone,…finding solitude,…stealing away with a bedroll,…so it’s logical for him to choose a hidey spot for the Bronze Chest accordingly. IMO. 😉

“If the chest is on his land that he has “hidden” from record in Montana, then by Montana’s moniker his land is also a treasure.”

His “treasures bold” don’t just include that land in Montana (the “Treasure State”),…with the “disputed barricade”,…that looks like the outline of a caught Rainbow trout (See: how it is outlined),…boldly jumping out of the stream,…snagged by an expert fly fisherman,…but also the “end of Forrest’s Rainbow”,…the actual quarry itself. I hope we get “title to the gold”,…meaning to that land,… as well as the Bronze Chest hidden somewhere in the Heart of it. But then we will be spending a lot of time and energy,…removing downed trees. 🙁

“All along I know the treasure is inside us… it’s in our love, it’s in our hearts, in our family…we all know that but still we look for the gold, and we continue on the quest to solve the great riddle.”

I have even wondered if Forrest chose to put his Purple Heart,…that he received in Vietnam,…in the Bronze Chest?:

“While it’s sometimes hard to know whether Fenn’s zest for “embellishment” adds to his stories, military records emphatically back this chapter. They confirm that as a fighter pilot he was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Air Medal, silver and bronze stars, a purple heart and other medals.”

I agree! And it was nice of Forrest to send Jenny another Q/A answer,…to relieve the forever ON TOPIC constipation, here,…on her blog. Good to see an ON TOPIC discussion going on,…and things moving again,…but I guess my contribution must be “Dangerous Intel”,…or something,…because it is still in moderation. 😉

E*:
decall – And here is another “disputed barricade” (as mentioned in that Seeger poem),…from that same trappers link I posted above,…which happens to be located at one of the potential blazes I pointed out (that Forrest could easily have used as a marker,…from his plane):

“The Lisa, Menard, and Morrison Fur Company is also credited with building a trading post at the Three Forks in Montana, but this is questionable–to the Mountain Man a fort was usually a log barricade. The fur trappers arrived at the Three Forks on April 3, 1810, and a trapping party was attacked on April 12th. Five trappers were killed. The rest of the party forted up behind a log barricade. Tired of staying behind the barricade, George Drouillard and two Delaware Indians went up the Gallatin River to trap where they were killed by the Blackfeet.”

Forrest is pictured at a Mountain Man Rendezvous,…in one of his books,…wearing a distinctive hat.

E* all that historical research won’t help us solve the poem so they all say. Just the poem and a good map. But I sure enjoy every morsel and always figured those peaks I love were named for Manuel Lisa. I also believe the chest may be wrapped in a hide because of all Forrest loves and because of double entendre meanings for both hide and cache. We all recognize he loves beautiful details as much as fun.

anna – I am glad you appreciate my love of history and doing research! Like the early explorers,…I find discovery to be intoxicating. And I think The Wolf was right,…”Finding Fenn” helps me to substantiate the solves I came up with during my first three weeks on The Chase (in March 2013, using The Poem, and my topo map software, and the stories from TTOTC, that Forrest posted on his Old Santa Fe Trading Co. blog),…and to add to them,…as I go forward. I am glad I have continued along this journey,…learning everything I have along the way,…even if I could have retrieved the Bronze Chest, somehow,…back then. But that didn’t happen,…so I trust this process,…and truly believe the right person will locate and retrieve the Bronze Chest. And I may be TOTALLY wrong about EVERYTHING,…but then maybe my story of the location of Forrest’s Hidey Hole is better than his? 😉

Hey MJ! yes, I have a Gone With The Wind solution for you. Dont have my notes in front of me but here goes from memory. written by Margaret Mitchell, MM. (like FF) Lets say title to the gold just means a nine word phrase, the nine clues. and lets say sending FF the correct nine word phrase wins the prize. disregard any instruction given by the poem for an outdoor adventure. only use specific instruction to nine words. example: begin it WHERE. so the word WHERE is the first of our nine. forget about WWWH, it means nothing. OK, looking for second word and i went back to the top of the poem. As i have GONE (alone) in there. OK, GONE is another of our nine, alone-not to be joined to another word. With me so far? Our first two words of our nine word phrase are- WHERE GONE. third word…and WITH my treasures bold. and WITH. WITH is the third word. OK, first three words are- WHERE GONE WITH. next line…I can keep my secret where. this line has no instruction to use a single word. so skip it. next line…and hint of riches new and old. again, no instruction, skip it. we already used the next line…begin it where. next line…and take IT! our next word is IT! take IT! we now have four words…WHERE GONE WITH IT. not far but too far to walk, no instruction. put IN (put in where?) below THE. (or, after THE). here are words five and six. IN, THE. and we put IN after THE. now we have six words, in order as instructed, they are…WHERE GONE WITH IT THE IN. home of brown means nothing. next line.. from there it’s NO. seventh word is NO. place for the meek becomes irrelevant. see the pattern forming? forget the outdoor instructions. next two lines..no paddle, heavy loads, no instruction. next line.. if you’ve been wise and found the blaze. the mansion that burned in Gone with the wind was named Twelve Oaks. like i said im going from memory here but i think the rest of the poem is more outdoor misdirection and somehow from WHERE GONE WITH IT THE IN NO TWELVE OAKS. i thought i had something. but when i emailed FF about it he questioned my IQ. LOL

Deb and Everyone – FYI. Forrest did a re-org.,…over on his blog,…so now the most recent comment shows at the top,…and we don’t need to scroll all the way down to the bottom to post:

E* says: 5:23 pm on April 29, 2015DEB – Yep! It goes up to the top of the thread,…and is displayed as the first comment now. So we don’t have to scroll ALL THE WAY DOWN THE THREAD just to converse with each other. That was nice of you to fix that for us, Forrest. Thank you. 🙂

I wonder if Deb will find this comment, though? 🙂

E* says: 3:29 pm on April 29, 2015DEB – Hey,…check out the new format for Forrest’s blog pages. There’s a flag at the top that says this:

1230 Comments (most recent first)

So,…I am just checking to see if this reply goes up to the top of this thread I am on.

See Bob, it is thinking like yours that will solve this poem. I do believe that the treasure really is hidden out there somewhere, but we all need to think like Bob. FF had to have mentioned Gone (gone in there) With (with my treasures bold) Wind on his book jacket for a reason. And thanks E* for that dialogue as well.

anna – OK,…then there’s Forrest’s statement about being “pillowed down and scented in”,…which in a pine forest,…means being covered in those pine needles that he loves to smell, IMO. Which could mean on the ground OR in a tree fort (which I also suggested here previously,…as being his “ef-fort”). But if on the ground,…then it would be My Grizz vs. the Wolves (or one of his Grizz cousins),…fighting over Forrest’s carcass, there,…on top of the Bronze Chest. But they would leave his bones,…so that would probably be OK.

Check this poem out. Maybe, as someone suggested at Dal’s,…he hid the Bronze Chest in April (Spring) of 2010 (before he turned 80 in August of that year)? He did say in last Monday night’s interview,…that we were in the fifth year of The Chase:

“God knows ’twere better to be deep
Pillowed in silk and scented down,
Where love throbs out in blissful sleep,
Pulse nigh to pulse, and breath to breath,
Where hushed awakenings are dear…
But I’ve a rendezvous with Death
At midnight in some flaming town,
When Spring trips north again this year,
And I to my pledged word am true,
I shall not fail that rendezvous.”

decall – I am sorry. I can’t contact you directly. I made it clear that my participation on The Chase is always going to be here on these blogs,…openly,…sharing with everyone,…and not offline individually. I am certain the right person will find the Bronze Chest,…at the right time. If my research and insights help someone,…that’s great. I can understand others not wanting to share their solves, though. 😉

But if Brad Pitt calls,…offering to escort me to my spot,…with Bart the Bear II in tow,…then I’m IN! 🙂

“The mountains are not sleeping; they are alive with the healing smells of pine needles and pinon pollen and juniper berries. The shades of fall are yellow with blooming chamisa shrubbery, and the golden glow of rabbit brush can be intoxicating. The Indian paintbrushes are clustered around for little reason other than to display nature’s ruby flush of color. Those accounts continue to stir me and are too important to let languish.”

decall – Another excerpt to consider from that story. I believe it is 26 miles from West Yellowstone (where most tourists “stay”),…to the trailhead at Beaver Creek that I showed on that topo map I posted previously:

“I’ll happily share my national forests with you, but please try to stay at least twenty miles away.”

And didn’t I see the number “Eighty” in the first sentence,…and then something about a “double-bitted axe”?

I think I mentioned some property boundaries,…with an undefined property area between them,…that looked like a trout on the topo map I posted. And if you can find that map,…and change it to Topo Terrain View,…you may be able to imagine seeing that Olmec Jadeite Mask I hinted about. I see it every time I go looking for my spot on those free online maps,…it reminds me of the Face on Mars,…and I giggle. 🙂

1000 compliments to you. I like everything you write. I must be the opposite, because I cannot write another word about the chase. i really can’t explain it other than you have struck a nerve . So if you understand what I shared with you, then I don’t want it said to the whole world.

decall – Do you mean what you just shared with me,…in your last comment,…or something prior to that? Anything you have chosen to share, on any of the blogs,…has been shared with everyone here. I have never communicated with you offline. How I have interpreted what I read,…including comments posted by you or anyone else,…is what I am sharing,…and that interpretation is mine alone,…and will be fair game for me to share. FYI that I tend to get innuendos. 😉

E*, it’s true, what I say here is fair game. I shouldn’t be discouraged by your style of play. As I see it, few people understand FF’s style in the poem, or the meaning. You are getting closer… Yeah i’m aware that all previous claims to understand the poem have crashed and burned, so I hope not to repeat. Yet, my confidence grows line by line the more I understand the story Fenn is telling.

“Born in New York on June 22, 1888…”
(that’s 100 years before that infamous YNP fire)

“Seeger was the uncle of American folk singer Pete Seeger, and was a classmate of T.S. Eliot at Harvard. He is most well known for having authored the poem, I Have a Rendezvous with Death, a favorite of President John F. Kennedy.”

Ergo,…I think this is a poem that Forrest may have been familiar with previously. Maybe he recited it when Jacqueline Kennedy stayed in his guest house?:

“This particular poem, according to the JFK Library, “was one of John F. Kennedy’s favorite poems and he often asked his wife (Jacqueline) to recite it.”

“Maybe, as someone suggested at Dal’s,…he hid the Bronze Chest in April (Spring) of 2010 (before he turned 80 in August of that year)? He did say in last Monday night’s interview,…that we were in the fifth year of The Chase.”

Coincidentally,…I just found this quote,…that Suzie posted over at Dal’s yesterday:

“Indecision is the key to flexibility and that is why I waited so long to secret my cache. …..And like Eric Sloane, at age almost-eighty, I figured it was time to act.”

That quote he used about “indecision” is often used in the Air Force, btw,…so I have searched for indicators on my topo maps of shapes that might reflect an F-100D,…and I found one (but the maps back in March of 2013 were dated by Google Earth as being from 2011,…and now they’re dated 2014,…and they look much different).

I have thought about this a few times… why even question what age he was? He must have been 80 or else there would be no reason to bring it up. Probably just after his birthday… September weather is perfect.. and gives him a whole safe winter to think about what he had done. It’s brilliant to have a tc winter locked for 5+ months out of the year.

E* yes of course you are correct… he was 79 (sorry, I remember my logic on this now) and I still believe it was september when he hid it. It’s strange that he was so concerned someone would know the exact month year?… perhaps is was about the rental car info or someone saw him there … hunters?

anna- a tree fort, i like that one. when i was a kid my buddies and i would build tree houses as we called them. i grew up in Overland Park Kansas, at the start of the Santa Fe trail. and back then, the town was booming with new construction.so it was easy to find scrap wood at a construction site to drag into the woods to build a tree house. we found nails too. but technically, to be in the wood at a tree fort i think it would have to have walls and a roof. sometimes, we just built a platform high in a tree with no walls or roof. i dont think Forrest built a tree fort or platform to hide the bronze box. but it is possible. do you suppose a tree fort is still in existence somewhere around West Yellowstone? one that he and skippy built years ago?

Hello Bob, like you its just fun to think back on memories about being kids and tree forts. There could be a cleft or Y in an ancient pine for the chest which I would consider a natural fort. More likely the chest is blanketed in pine needles on the ground near a special spot where Forrest spent time in reverie or prayer while keeping company with those adorable least chipmunks.

anna – You wrote, “more likely the chest is blanketed in pine needles in the ground”,…so I will repeat what I wrote over at Jenny’s here.

I see a “tarry scant”,…a good-sized flat rock,…like the one I saw on a wall,…with Forrest sitting Indian style in front of it,…over on his website (like Solomon’s “keystone”,…the one that the builders forgot). I see that rock made “tarry” with Pine Pitch,…to create a sticky surface for a pine needle camoflage,…and to create a water resistant seal for the Bronze Chest-sized hole in the ground below it.

decall – And here is another “disputed barricade” (as mentioned in that Seeger poem),…from that same trappers link I posted above,…which happens to be located at one of the potential blazes I pointed out (that Forrest could easily have used as a marker,…from his plane):

“The Lisa, Menard, and Morrison Fur Company is also credited with building a trading post at the Three Forks in Montana, but this is questionable–to the Mountain Man a fort was usually a log barricade. The fur trappers arrived at the Three Forks on April 3, 1810, and a trapping party was attacked on April 12th. Five trappers were killed. The rest of the party forted up behind a log barricade. Tired of staying behind the barricade, George Drouillard and two Delaware Indians went up the Gallatin River to trap where they were killed by the Blackfeet.”

Forrest is pictured at a Mountain Man Rendezvous,…in one of his books,…wearing a distinctive hat.

WiseOne
on April 30, 2015 at 7:49 am said:
Not that I think it’s important, but I have wondered if the wood liner is original to the chest. f could have had one made, if it didn’t have one and he wanted one in there for better protection of the contents… If he did, it could be made of Oak.

I believe the liner you see in the photo is a faux finish in Bronze,…made to look like wood. So when Forrest decided to cache the Bronze Chest,…deterioration would not be an issue IMO.

Since that post,…in the past week or so,…I texted images to Forrest,…of a Y-tree,…like the one you mentioned, anna (there are actually two,…about 200 ft apart,…at my usual hiking spot here),…that fits the description of the Tree of Life,…with these captions:

Mike – Thank you for all your help in removing that annoying and recurring WordPress page that keeps popping up. I really appreciate it. No one should download software when prompted. That’s how viruses get into our computer systems, right? Love, E* 🙂

thanks E! and in addition it goes along with the line….brave and in the wood. when we shorten the word inside to in, that can cause confusion. for instance we would never say: “we went inside the desert” or
“we went swimming inside the river” so, to say “we went in the desert” or, “we went swimming in the river” is actually incorrect. it should be: “we were AT the desert” or “we went swimming AT the river”. i think proper usage of the word inside is important.
“As I have gone alone INSIDE there …”
“If you are brave and INSIDE the wood”

E* would you like to go into a business venture with me and my Grizz? I figure we can milk the Grizz for their bear Pee… Package and sell it to totc searchers to keep the Grizz cousins, and all predictors away. We need to come up with a nose catching name… Put on your thinking cap.
National Geographic film crew employs it in their “end” game. Heck maybe that’s ‘must’ in the poem and you need a UV light to see the pee. although my guess is the pleasant odor greets you far before you see it.

The bear urine, is being used by the crew of the National Geographic Television show Deadliest Encounters. The crew members are using it mask their “human” scent. They plan to spray the pee on their shoes while setting up film equipment so that animals cannot track their human scent. The hope is that this will enable the crew to get close-up shots of animals that would otherwise stay away.

‘In the wood’ also carries the meaning: ‘in the know about what’s important.’ don’t get bogged down in the details and miss the big picture. I believe f has multiple meanings for that phrase. Perhaps in the scrub brush/sage brush… you would not be inside a sagebrush, you would be in it, as you would also be in a stand a willows if you were surrounded, not literally inside the bark.

anna – I remember sending an email to Forrest after reading this book. The priests called John Stands in Timber “Forrest” in school. Too funny. 🙂

I said if I found the Bronze Chest,…then rightfully John deserved “title to the gold”,…since his name could literaly translate to mean “brave and in the wood” (but he is deceased). He has been consulted frequently about the details of Custer’s Last Stand by authors like Nathaniel Philbrick (get it? Stand = Brave? John ‘Stands’ in Timber?),…and even wrote a book of his own about that. He was considered to be the Cheyenne tribe’s Memory Keeper:

Goofy_Old_Guy
on April 29, 2015 at 11:32 am said:
I apologize for the delays and problems connecting to the site……We are still extremely busy today……We have a beefy server for a site like this, but it can’t keep up with the amount of traffic we are experiencing.

deb – And that is EXACTLY why Mike’s ttotc.com blog is the BEST blog to post to! Thank you again, Mike,…for everything you do for us here. If I find the Bronze Chest,…you will be handsomely rewarded. We are lucky to be here on your awesome, friendly and open-hearted blog! 🙂

E* you should write to Dal and he might get you access back. Something weird happens when Goofy deletes things. Maybe you just need a reset of the account. I just can’t see why you would be banned permanently.

Oh please let’s hope we don’t have to open that can of worms since lies could mean it’s a lie or joke.

I chose to believe you Forrest. Be a flying ace not a joker.
End of title discussion for me unless it’s for fun.
I’m off to buy a golf club for a gift, I don’t want to use it on you wolf or E* so behave while I’m gone! Ok?

Very good E*. I found a lot of your research intersects mine. Or at least when I venture deep down a path, I notice you seem to always beat me there! ha

This Title – “Where the poem Lies” – Lies is not the first time he uses this word. In the memoir, he says in the chapter – Looking for Lewis and Clark – “movies lie to you” It seems out of place considering he just came out of the woods, unless he was talking about a movie that made it sound easy. Too me that statement is a little suspicious. Could even be placed on the Aberration list. Anyone want to guess what kind of “lie” the poem eludes?

Hey Wolf! Aberration time. From the chapter “Surviving Myself”.
…the trouble with robins was that they could see the BB coming and duck….

NOT! Lol
I killed many a Robin with my Daisy model 96 in the years 1967-1971
In Overland Park, Kansas. Along the Santa Fe Trail. Those robins could not see the BB coming and paid the ultimate price when I was learning marksmanship. Along with several other species of prairie birds. And no, we didn’t kill to feed our families. We we emulating our frontier heroes, Davey Crockett, Daniel Boone, Bill Cody. Real guys, not the fake ones. My best friend, Erin gave us both nicknames- he was Zeke and I was Zeb. Our best day of shooting was not at critters though, it was sinking cans in the creek. Here’s what happened- sometimes a can won’t sink all the way down. Air gets trapped in the closed end and it floats away with just the end above the surface of the water. This bothered me. I told Erin “it’s not a kill unless it sinks to the bottom.”
So we made a plan to sink those pesky cans. I said “ok, I will count to three. On the count of two, I will shoot the exposed rim of the can and tip it up enough so that you can shoot the side of the can just below the rim, on the count of three.”
Erin said “ok, got it.”
So I took aim on the rim of a floating can, and counted..”one! Two! I fired tipping the can slightly. Three! Erin fired and put a hole just below the rim, sinking the can, a trail of bubbles as it gasped for air on its way to Davey Jones Locker. It was a huge success. Not long after, we switched to bow and arrow for hunting. What else is there to accomplish with a rifle?
And the Robin population increased in our neck of the woods.(we couldn’t afford flu-flu arrows).

The Wolf – One of my favorite movies, “A River Runs Through It”,…has lots of scenes “in the wood”,…that were filmed on the Gallatin River (where Forrest likes to fish, too),…and this one starts out by revealing a really good “lie”:

But actually,…in the book, “Shadowcasting : An Introduction to the Art of Flyfishing”,…John Dietsch, the flyfishing project coordinator for the movie,…wrote that he wanted to use one of his favorite fishing spots on the Gallatin,…also with a big rock,…but Robert Redford chose the one that you see in that video. And the flyfishing guys got to play the stunt doubles for “Norman” and “Paul”:

The Wolf, I’ll take a guess at how the poem lies. In my opinion a mirror image(s) leads to imitations thus giving the illusion the chest ‘lies’ in one spot which is not the true location. Remember the mirrors in the chest. Finding the correct “place of reflection” both physically and metaphorically will be the key. I’ll get hammered for being mystical on other blogs for that interpretation so I may try remaining here alone for a season. Those who discount a spiritual interpretation will miss the most important clue imo.

Hi Spallies, the mirror reference is not in either if Forrest’s books. I read about f’s inclusion of ancient mirrors in the tc on either Dal’s blog or at Forrest’s website. If I can locate it, I’ll let you know.

SPALLIES – here is the mirror reference which you can read on Dal’s blog under “What it’s worth” section

“The gold includes 265 coins, pre-Columbian animal figures, gold dust, placer nuggets and two pre-Columbian, hammered gold “mirrors”. The mirrors are 4-5 inches in diameter and have holes in them for wearing. But what about the “other items”? Forrest, once again helps us out. In his memoir he mentions some of the items that are not pure gold and therefore not already accounted for.

In the spirit of great writers and poets past who named their master works “Excelsior” maybe Forrest could name his poem “Amelior”…named after both the great adventurer Amelia Earhart as well as the root meaning of the word…typically spelled with the -ate suffix in English. Just a suggestion. Do you know if Forrest even reads this stuff, Wolf?

JC117,
He may read this, I know when I left ChaseChat, I considered starting another blog and he was interested in supporting it. I encouraged him to support this blog and we created a From Forrest section just incase he wished to add some information here. I really like the people on this blog. They are very nice, creative and the forum is more conducive to solving the poem because we do not have to be worried about being banned or chastised for stating out opinions- lol

Regardless, I can always send the list to him but my impression was that we would decide what we wanted to call it. So if we the seekers/searchers/questers come up with a name we can agree on – which I think is a great idea – then we will just tell him what the name of the poem is! How is that for fun!

Hi Bob, thank you for your kindness to post the cross references and beautiful photo. My solve involves the cross and my life as well. I’m not always precise enough in solving Forrest’s poem, but continue to hope and dream its possible.

Until the rainbow burns the stars out in the sky—ALWAYS
Until the ocean covers every mountain high—ALWAYS
Until the dolphin flies and parrots live at sea—ALWAYS
Until we dream of life and life becomes a dream

Geydelkon, congratulations on the wedding! Have a safe and memorable trip. 🙂
I dont think you are crazy, I think we all see something different. Doesnt make anyone crazy…well unless of course they really are! LOL

When using a pictogram,…for pictorial hiking directions,…to describe a River,…one might use a BOLD S,…to represent it.

So,…in Geydelkon’s, “keeps his word in The Poem”,…the ‘word’ could be ‘treasure’,…and that could be a ‘River’. And didn’t someone say,…in that, “Da Vinci’s Demons” series, “Life is a River…”? Ergo,…Word = Treasure = River = Life. Logical, no?

E* the last 2 stanzas has nothing to do with a physical location or direction to the chest. He gives his word because he is told to, let it be written. I have to stop posting or I will give out more than one can handle. I read all the blogs everyday and every night. I am growing weary from my own account. I enjoy you depth in research E*. Stay focused and you will get there as well…hmmm perhaps you have been there and didn’t know it.

ff has a bone to pick, just my thoughts. Yes, most of you must think I am crazy. It’s all good, I am not ashamed of being the person I am today. I will check in a couple of days, trying to get ready for my wedding.

The expression “dead man’s hand” appears to have had some currency in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, although no one connected it to Hickok until the 1920s.[1] The earliest detailed reference to the “dead man’s hand” was 1886, where it was described as a “full house consisting of three jacks and a pair of tens”.[2] Jacks and sevens are called the ‘dead man’s hand’ in the 1903 Encyclopaedia of Superstitions, Folklore, and the Occult Sciences[3][4] Edmond Hoyle references the Dead Man’s Hand as “Jacks and eights” in 1907.[5]

Hickok’s hand[edit]
What is considered the dead man’s hand card combination of today gets its notoriety from a legend that it was the five-card draw hand held by James Butler Hickok (better known as “Wild Bill” Hickok) when he was shot in the back of the head by Jack McCall on August 2, 1876, in Nuttal & Mann’s Saloon at Deadwood, Dakota Territory. Reportedly, Hickok’s final hand included the aces and eights of both black suits.

And from Forrest’s TTOTC book preview page:

“Life is a game of poker,
Happiness is the pot.
Fate deals you four cards and a joker,
And you play whether you like it or not.”

(Lizard?)

This book is dedicated to
those who love the thrill of the chase.

That really looks like a lizard,…between those lines. Was Hickock’s fifth card a Joker?

The expression “dead man’s hand” appears to have had some currency in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, although no one connected it to Hickok until the 1920s.[1] The earliest detailed reference to the “dead man’s hand” was 1886, where it was described as a “full house consisting of three jacks and a pair of tens”.[2] Jacks and sevens are called the ‘dead man’s hand’ in the 1903 Encyclopaedia of Superstitions, Folklore, and the Occult Sciences[3][4] Edmond Hoyle references the Dead Man’s Hand as “Jacks and eights” in 1907.[5]

Hickok’s hand[edit]
What is considered the dead man’s hand card combination of today gets its notoriety from a legend that it was the five-card draw hand held by James Butler Hickok (better known as “Wild Bill” Hickok) when he was shot in the back of the head by Jack McCall on August 2, 1876, in Nuttal & Mann’s Saloon at Deadwood, Dakota Territory. Reportedly, Hickok’s final hand included the aces and eights of both black suits.

Do you think Hickok’s final hand,…included a joker (from TTOTC book preview excerpt)?:

“Life is a game of poker,
Happiness is the pot.
Fate deals you four cards and a joker,
And you play whether you like it or not.”

(And does the insignia,…between these two paragraphs,…in, TTOTC book,…look like a lizard to you?)

Astree – Was it you,…or Donna,…that brought up that Forrest loves Pueblos and Rivers? Maybe Geydelkon’s statement derives from this:

“And with my treasure S BOLD”

When using a pictogram,…for pictorial hiking directions,…to describe a River,…one might use a BOLD S,…to represent it.

So,…in Geydelkon’s, “keeps his word in The Poem”,…the ‘word’ could be ‘treasure’,…and that could be a ‘River’. And didn’t someone say,…in that, “Da Vinci’s Demons” series, “Life is a River…”? Ergo,…Word = Treasure = River = Life. Logical, no?

One of the things I have found helpful is not necessarily what Forrest shows, its what he doesnt show. He calls your attention to something but doesnt give the complete subject. Often what is missing is more important that what is there.

Astree – I enjoy sharing the information I find,… with you,…and everyone else here. While on your Marantha site,…I noted that you mentioned Mary Shelley and Frankenstein, recently,…who I had also been thinking about,…since I was researching the Shelleys’ history,…while living in Italy. Here is a great site,…referencing their association with a Italian doctor,…who may have been Mary’s influence,…for Dr. Frankenstein and his laboratory:

Also, I heard that FF shot down the www._____ theory with a comment stating he would have never thought of that. Therefore, all numerology, encryption, key-word substition is out of play from my point of view.

I have found a word that is “key”, but it is not a key. I am not willing to share it. In fact, it is 180 degrees from where I see 99.9% of the searchers going (thinking process that is).

Old shadows- ya know your name implies evening shadows when the sun is going down. Newborn shadows occur in the morning with the RISING SUN. And slant west. So, old shadows would slant east with the setting sun. Am I getting warm?

I doubt FF constructed the architecture of numerology, or, intricate grammatical tense perfections, to be hunt-meaningful in his poem. I think its simpler and I’m goin’ with VAULT, subconsciously supported from below by HALT.
That said… E*, You related vault to cask to Poe??
The Poe stories were common HS reading in my youth (1950’s) and perhaps FF’s as well. But I don’t think Poe and poem are related, however I think the mysterious /vague motive for the murderer (a thousand insults)… fits well with a simpler and more likely motive I found in here because FF is “an environmentalist more than most” … wilderness.org/sites/default/files/legacy/TWTD-NM-Valle.pdf … I even like the little square detail at the end of sections.
If you’re gonna get all DanBrown, his HOMEpage has (had? Aint checked it for a couple years) this biblical ID at the bottom: Job 38:11 , and if you pull up: www.topverses.com/?verse=13805 and check #11…. You can see that proud means something possibly useful if you are working rows & columns in some crossword-grid.
Again… numerology? Really?

Old Shadows2 – Uh,…where did I refer to Numerology,…in these latest replies to you? Or is it because I brought up Leonardo Da Vinci? My ‘vault’ definition is equal to his,…’Vault of Heaven’,…ie., the Milky Way (See: “Stairway to Heaven”), the Cosmos, the Constellations, …which is why I mentioned the last scene of, “Immortal Beloved” (@ 4:29):

Old Shadows2 – On the Number Four (so I guess that’s Numerology),…as it pertains to those squares you liked,…in that environmental article (well, and then there is the Magic Square,…in that Dan Brown, “Book of Symbols”):

The square symbolizes our quadrapartite spatial orientation with our domain according to the points of the compass, representing a unification with the circle.

And isn’t nature considered to be our “domain”,…by some?

And we continue to address all those things that Forrest said we didn’t need to,…in his scrapbook post. Hmmmm…..

Sorry E*, Didn’t mean that you mentioned numerology, I scanned a bunch of comments before I wrote; there was some numerology & grammar stuff & I sorta lumped everything into my comment. I don;t know what an article about Idaho has to do with the hunt since Idaho was eliminated by FF. My “?” comment was merely a printers aesthetic , as used in TTOTC, not quatitatively meaningful or symbolic. Searching on my new inerest, Vaults, I found this chuckleworthy: August, 1992, Scientologists traded a piece of NM property for a piece of taxpayer owned NM property. Wiki says it was a fair trade because both properties were valued at $28,000 each, … except that one was previously purchases for over $250,000 and had millions of dollars of concrete tunnels/vaults built deep into its rock. Wiki said it was the Scientologists who traded-down, but I suspect thats an error.
Anyhow, the vaults are/were needed to hold a library of L.Ron Hubbards fictional and non-fictional writings that are etched on steel disks in titanium capsules. There’s an airport on the site, and huge symbols are drawn on the plain (like Nazca lines), marking it so future Scientologists from far planets can find their Jerusalem. Or at least, where their IMP LIT 301 class is at
Cheers & luck to all… from a simple thinker. .

I was de-architecting stanza one of the poem trying to figure if this stanza actually described the starting area, and a bell rang (tolled?) … VAULT! That word came up in IMP LIT where two vaulted authors were discarded & JD Salinger hid his treasures in one. Is a vault a natural/geologic site of some kind? Maybe its the verb, to vault over, like an arc or rainbow? Can that first stanza be as empty as it seems?.

vault
coping saw – A saw with a very narrow blade stretched across a u-shaped frame—for cutting curves, with cope meaning “vault, arch.”
ossuary – From Latin os, “bone,” it is any receptacle—urn, vault, etc.—for the bones of the dead.
camera – First meant “vault, chamber.”
firmament – Means “vault of the sky,” as a fixed structure

Just wanted to throw something out there, as this may make a difference to my solution. The word GONE in line one:
Does this mean he went to a place and has yet to return? or
Does this not matter because ff plays with words all the time?

Astree – I noted that the circumpunct (aka. ‘Monad’),…which formed the ‘O’,…in the “Leones” cigarette label,…of your “3-3” blaze,…is a significant symbol,…in the Masonic tradition,…and in alchemy,…where it means, ‘Gold’:

The Monad symbol
The Ancient Alchemy symbol for Gold happens to be the ancient philosophical symbol for unity and the beginning of creation. This is the symbol of the Monad. The use of this symbol ,the circumpunct, was used by the Greek philosophers and Pythagoras to represent the point of the beginning of creation. From this symbol one may evolve towards the additional rules of creation including the Golden Ratio.

The Monad symbolizes the secret of creation and contains the idea of cosmic consciousness which experiences itself and learns from itself by observation and experience of the micro and the macro, and vice versa. The ancient alchemists used this symbol to represent Gold because Gold represents the divine and the eternal, since Gold is not subject to annihilation and entropy.

Astree – WOW! I really felt you,…on all the effort you put into resonating with that solve! The value of pi = 3.14159,…which is an irrational number (like e = 2.71828 Euler’s Number, and ? = 1.61803 Golden Ratio):

I think you’re all looking too deep into the poem, especially the first line to not to mention the first stanza. I think the first line is no more than the beginning of the lead-in or introduction.
I remember a riddle from a long time ago that college students could not get but was a no brainer for grade school students. It goes like this; What’s greater than God, hotter than hell, poor people have it and rich people don’t need it?
Anyway, good luck to everyone in the chase.

in certain other kinds of cases, sure, it does. i am sure you can cite more examples and so could i

but does it apply to this poem, this book, this puzzle. does it apply to what Forrest did here

i think probably not

if you think your approach is closer to the truth of what F did, then what is your reason for that.

a riddle that college students couldn’t answer isn’t really a reason. we don’t know if it applies to this or not. is there a more substantial reason related to Forrest or the puzzle that indicates the 1st stanza is only an introduction and nothing more

and if you are right about this, i presume this would give you an advantage over people who are using a wrong approach.

so how do you think it might advantage you, and how does this approach help to understand where the poem is leading and where precisely is the treasure

these are just questions, not challenges

i understand what you said, but it seems to lack some substance to back it up. so if you have more to support and that causes you to lean toward this thinking, i want to know what it is.

me personally, i am questioning my own approach all the time, and i am changing my mind often about things. there are a few posters here who, in my view, think more critically than others, and as a result their posts and replies have caused me to change my mind on some things and have helped me