Can you do fight specific guides for Tsulong and Lei Shi? On most fights I'm towards the top of the meters in my raid but for some reason I struggle with these. Especially Lei Shi.

Lei Shi and Tsulong are very strat dependent I think. I don't have great numbers on those fights mainly because on lei shi I try to get hold 20 stacks every week and never get past 17 when my healers let me die.....Tsulong you can do very good damage on the night phase, but then the day phase just isn't great if you are focusing on the waves of adds.

Can you do fight specific guides for Tsulong and Lei Shi? On most fights I'm towards the top of the meters in my raid but for some reason I struggle with these. Especially Lei Shi.

Tsulong: Generally speaking it will depend greatly on your strat (like Zinnin said). How I get to do it is the following;
- AoE/Knockback Dark of the Night adds (this will basically apply to every strat if you're Demo)
- DPS Terrors (normal single target rotation but being aware of the need to knockback any close Unstable Sha's) and burst AoE the Fright Spawns down (because I'm lazy I just stay with GoSup but if you're just learning the fight and are tight on DPS on the Fright Spawns you should use GoServ). As far as what I do to Fright Spawns: a) 2xHoG, b) Felstorm (Wrathstorm if GoSup), c) Hellfire if low on Fury from killing Terror (will generally be the first and 3rd Terrors that this will happen as we burst them down) or Immo Aura + Harvest Life in Meta form.
- Since I'm also getting Symbiosis I have a macro to put up Rejuv on Tsulong with the breath buff so I do that every breath on top of killing Terrors/Fright Spawns
- In second day phase I transition off the Terrors/Frights after the 2nd Terror/Frights are killed and swap over to CCing and killing Unstable Sha's (this is when our hybrids transition off and heal Tsulong to finish off the encounter.
- Things of note: Use of Demonic Leap is amazing on this fight to get to a new beam/to Dark of the Night adds/etc...

Lei Shi: Again it depends if you are the stacker or if you just get to DPS - for the most part I just get to DPS (couple of times I've had to be the stacker, QQ). But since I mostly just get to go mongo on the boss....
- Normal starting rotation should be the same, nothing special outside of having to get inside the shroud.
- Try to make sure you keep a respectable (~700) Fury for when one of her special abilities is about to happen (this is mostly in case of a Get Away you can go right into Meta and burn through your Fury for 4% without it impacting your DPS). Obviously if it's Hide once you pop her out, you go into Meta rotation.
- How I best utilize Demo to get her out of Hide quickly: I go with MF for this encounter as you can basically cover one whole quarter of the platform on your own. Once Lei Shi is found I leap over to it and use a Goblin Dragon Gun on her to break the hide very fast.
- Transition phases (80, 60, 40, 20) I am full time on CC duty for the adds; Banish/Fear/Shadowfury/Knockbacks with light DPS on the Protector we are killing. It's more important to ensure the adds are CC'd than it is to lay your full attention on the kill target.
- As Demo you have an insane amount of CD's to keep yourself alive/help out the healers on Get Away - I personally will spec into Dark Regen and Sac Pact and will just use them on CD for each Get Away and take 0 damage, less strain on healers is less strain .

Overall those tips may/may not actually help you but that's what I do for my raids strat and it works out pretty well. Usually one of the top ranged on Lei Shi (for it being a fairly hellacious fight for casters, usually end up ~8th or so) and will generally find myself topping damage on Tsulong (more specifically damage on Fright Spawns and Terrors since our burst damage is just that good for that assignment).
The latest Lei Shi kill isn't very representative of what I said because we had our high stack drop off so damage got shut down pretty well

Can you do fight specific guides for Tsulong and Lei Shi? On most fights I'm towards the top of the meters in my raid but for some reason I struggle with these. Especially Lei Shi.

Lei Shi is very, very much about popping your cooldowns at a time when you can do so without her hiding or going into an add transition, especially if she also has high stacks. Without any Demo-specific tips, I would say that this is the only fight this tier where it's ok to delay your major cooldowns for up to 30 seconds or so to provide a more optimal burst window. Knowing when she is going to hide and when you're going to have a full 30 second dps window with the buff up will make the most significant difference there.

I've been waiting for this thread to be updated/redone for a long long time, so much so infact - ive made a forum account!.. Big fan of watching you on twitch, and learning any tricks of the trade i could see. Same goes to you evrelia and all you've contributed!

Like i always like to say to people when they ask about specs...you play the class, not the spec ...but everyone has there style of play, and personally i love demonology , and hope it comes closer to affliction in 5.2.

How do you guys feel about the specs going into 5.2? reckon they will be more in line? with more REAL choices to make in talents. They seem to be patching our class in a way with the tier bonus's in mind for the new tier.

Provided you have at least 3036 haste (Doom breakpoint), you can fit those 3 1/2 globals between the two HoGs and still get a 2 stack. Don't knock it until you try it.

Nice, to get some info on openers. But what about the normal rotation? Some guides says"only switch to meta at 950'ish fury and ToC to 750'ish then go caster form" other says only go Meta when DS or trinkets pop? Ima bit confused? I go meta to avoid capping and meta for full DS duration, is that right?

Nice, to get some info on openers. But what about the normal rotation? Some guides says"only switch to meta at 950'ish fury and ToC to 750'ish then go caster form" other says only go Meta when DS or trinkets pop? Ima bit confused? I go meta to avoid capping and meta for full DS duration, is that right?

This can be greatly influenced by the fight - movement, length, burn phases etc.

For a straight up patchwerk style fight with zero movement, you should aim to (as you correctly stated):
A) Always have enough fury to fuel a full DS burn phase.
B) Never cap your fury.

Outside of this it is a matter of making the most of your remaning 'excess' fury. Generally this means stacking meta uptime with any trinkets/procs - much as you would use shards for haunts as affliction. As a general rule of thumb when learning an encounter I tend to stick roughly to:

Lots of procs up and more than 20-30 sec until I plan to use cooldowns? - burn fury.
Either no procs up OR less than 20-30 sec until cooldowns - pool fury.

With Imps CD you can enter a DS with less than 750 fury. Spending a little time on dummies is a great way to practice fury management with no other distractions. Obviously there are plenty of other reasons you should use fury in other ways on different fights. To name a few - movement, +damage buffs, 'stuff must die now'.

Then there is also HoG buffing with the metamorphosis damage modifier to consider as has already been mentioned in this thread.

Nice, to get some info on openers. But what about the normal rotation? Some guides says"only switch to meta at 950'ish fury and ToC to 750'ish then go caster form" other says only go Meta when DS or trinkets pop? Ima bit confused? I go meta to avoid capping and meta for full DS duration, is that right?

If you are correctly weaving in and out of Meta for you big procs and trinkets you shouldn't be in danger of ever nearing the fury cap. On top of going into meta after you double HoG's the amount of fury spent during DS means that you probably only have limited fury to spend on other trinket procs. In general with the 4pc your meta should have around 35% ish uptime, and DS has an uptime of 25%.

Is the general verdict for challenge modes as demo to reforge for haste? I'm wanting to get into them as demo but don't have a clue what to prioritize or if I should just go off of the pre-raid gear in SimC.

Is the general verdict for challenge modes as demo to reforge for haste? I'm wanting to get into them as demo but don't have a clue what to prioritize or if I should just go off of the pre-raid gear in SimC.

Pre-raid gear in Simcraft reforges for Haste, so you should probably go with that.

Is the general verdict for challenge modes as demo to reforge for haste? I'm wanting to get into them as demo but don't have a clue what to prioritize or if I should just go off of the pre-raid gear in SimC.

I just recently did all the challenge modes as demo and I found that going mastery>haste>crit after hit cap was better since you could still swap to aff for single target dps requirements (basically only bosses and even then only some of them). You could def do it all as demo but for the comp I had anyway we needed to swap based on boss, etc...

Is the general verdict for challenge modes as demo to reforge for haste? I'm wanting to get into them as demo but don't have a clue what to prioritize or if I should just go off of the pre-raid gear in SimC.

In generally almost every AoE sim that I have run with various priority lists, Haste always wins in AoE, since the majority of challenge modes are AoE packs I would def go Int > Hit > Haste > Crit = Mastery for them.

Cool, thanks for the help guys. I'm gonna mess around with it a bit, probably end up just gemming for haste with supremacy and harvest life, switching out for service depending on the instance's AoE packs, somewhat worried about boss damage since I don't want to be carried(switching specs on fights with no RP before the pull sounds skeptical) on single target but will have to see how it goes.

Cool, thanks for the help guys. I'm gonna mess around with it a bit, probably end up just gemming for haste with supremacy and harvest life, switching out for service depending on the instance's AoE packs, somewhat worried about boss damage since I don't want to be carried(switching specs on fights with no RP before the pull sounds skeptical) on single target but will have to see how it goes.

Unless you need harvest life for the healing, hellfire is better damage.

I have a quick question regarding cooldown management both with and without the 4-piece set bonus. I have an orc lock who has the Flashfrozen Resin Globule still and has yet to get the 4-piece bonus. Obviously, I typically use all of my cooldowns at the beginning of a fight, but my question is about using them again later on in the encounter. My cooldown for imp swarm is slightly shorter than the cooldown for Dark Soul: Knowledge and Blood Fury, which are all shorter than the cooldown for the Flashfrozen Resin Globule. So my question is: should I wait for the trinket to come off cooldown before using my other cooldowns again or should I just use Imp Swarm, Blood Fury, and Dark Soul: Knowledge together and manage the cooldown from the trinket independently? Also, how does the 4-piece setbonus come into play where all of my cooldowns are going to have significantly different reset times? Thanks in advance for any advice you have.