"I am wondering.....why are you here?"

A couple of days ago, I changed my avatar to a picture of myself, for no reason other than to put a face to the screen name. I was really just following the example of two other members. It seemed to sort of gather steam. Rather quickly in fact. It soon became apparent that we have a very diversified age demographic here. Not that we didn't all already know that, but the pictures sort of drove the point home.

We've had a thread or three over the years chronicling peoples' histories with the franchise, how they were introduced to it, as well as when, what their hopes for certain releases are, their personal collections, etc. However, seeing the ages demonstrated so clearly (as opposed to someone just saying "I'm 18, I'm 30"...) made we wonder - why it is we come here?

I've mentioned before that I'm a life-long, daily motorcycle rider. For 39 years, motorcycles have been a major focus of my existence. I honestly cannot imagine not riding. I have accounts on three motorcycle boards, yet on all three combined, I probably post one quarter as often as I do here.

Baseball is another big deal in my life, but I still post maybe twice a week on the baseball board I'm on. Indiana Jones board, the same. James Bond board, even less. M*A*S*H board, about the same. I was on a Genesis board for 8 years and posted daily before it was shuttered.

My own Star Wars history is well known around here, as is my very narrow focus. In a franchise spanning 34 years, with 6 films, a TV special, a cartoon series, some animated kids' films, several radio dramas, tons of video games, more novels than I can count, an interactive official online community with ongoing projects, and I'm sure a few more things I don't even know about - I have what may be the smallest Star Wars footprint of any fan. One radio drama, four novels, and one film. Plus, the most recent of those six entities is 30 years old.

The other boards I'm on represent things which each have a larger presence in my world, as well as an ongoing presence. The one exception is M*A*S*H, but I watch it with some regularity and have 11 years worth of episodes on DVD.

I sometimes ponder why I come here more than all the others. My Star Wars world is a finished entity. At least with M*A*S*H I have 251 episodes to discuss - yet I don't.

My answer seems to always be the same. It must be the people. The intelligence, the humor, the acceptance, the knowledge base - all of it. I would have been run off the TFN board after only a few days (if that long). Not to mention, I wouldn't want to spend time with those folks anyway. I've perused it. It's cliquish and the members are by and large very intolerant of differing opinions. They aren't even open to the truth, which is another discussion entirely.

We are a very diverse group of regulars here. My question (yes, I'm finally getting around to it); Why is this place so different? Other than the obvious (desire for OT), why is this the place of choice for open, intelligent Star Wars discussions?

119 Replies

This might only be tangentially-related to your question, but I was in a coffee shop the other night meeting up with a friend, when I overheard someone talking Star Wars with one of the baristas. And I almost threw up. Because he was "educating" this person with the official Lucas line: "You know it was originally just one script. And then he decided to cut it in half. But then even that was too long, so he had to cut each half into thirds. Then he realized that the first half was basically all exposition and the second half was where the action was, so he decided to film it first." I mastered the impulse to get up and set him straight because, honestly, I didn't feel like getting into a very nerdy argument. The most I did was mutter, "Bullshit," after every sentence he spoke. After being forced to listen for another minute or two, I realized these weren't even TF.n gushers. They certainly didn't seem to be fans of the prequels at all. But they were still towing the sickening company line, and probably didn't even realize it.

Star Wars as a fandom is weird. It is so full of misinformation, half-truths, and just plain bullshit that it's almost impossible to have anything remotely resembling a unified fanbase. But it's not just the kind of in-universe bickering that most other fanbases have (this movie or this series is better than this movie or this series in the franchise). It's Lucas's bullshit that splits everyone apart.

The people here are an interesting breed. By "official" definition, most of us here aren't even Star Wars fans. So, yeah, of course we're going to band together, in protest if not comeraderie. Why are we here? Because we're the freaks of the fan community, and no one else will have us. ^_~

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Why is this place so different? Other than the obvious (desire for OT), why is this the place of choice for open, intelligent Star Wars discussions?

This forum is not as strictly moderated as the more "official" forums, and freedom of speech is given more than simple lip service. On OT.com you don't feel as if you're closed in like you would on TFN; there's no oppressive feeling that you've got to keep to a narrow path, all the while holding your breath, and that should you ever deviate the slightest bit from that path or take in a full breath of air a pack of ravenous wolves will bring you down and tear you to shreds.

I can no longer call myself a Star Wars fan. I’m sick of the same played-out aesthetics/tropes being remixed/regurgitated time-&-time again; I’m sick of the deteriorating characterization/worldbuilding which have been in play since 1983; I’m sick of the toxic fanboys from all ideological camps; I’m sick of the capitalist pigs who refuse to allow this IP into the public domain where it rightly belongs. So while I may still admire the first two films for their technical achievements and characters, I’m no longer capable of enjoying Star Wars in any capacity due to the reasons delineated above.

My question (yes, I'm finally getting around to it); Why is this place so different? Other than the obvious (desire for OT), why is this the place of choice for open, intelligent Star Wars discussions?

You toss a lot out in that post, food for thought, but I'll respond just to this last bit right now.

I think part of it is that we as a group of fans DON'T have what we want. We love the real "Star Wars" and most of us are tepid at best towards the PT and the EU. Perhaps it is that distance from the object of our fandom that gives us a bit of perspective for our discussions.

My question (yes, I'm finally getting around to it); Why is this place so different? Other than the obvious (desire for OT), why is this the place of choice for open, intelligent Star Wars discussions?

I can't say exactly why I joined this site, because there are so many reasons. The most important one was the fact that I was agreeing with a lot of what you guys were saying.

I had never heard of anybody talking about the pre 97 Star Wars trilogy in such a light.

The feelings I had for the trilogy were being expressed by others.

You couldn't find that on any other board. Every where else it was a lot of Lucas worshiping, and the very hint that he did wrong resulted in a ban.

I don't know why I am so passionate about Star Wars, I can clearly see it's faults, and I honestly don't think it is perfect. Yet it is so embedded in my mind that I can't help it.

Every opinion is respected on here. You can't find that anywhere else.

Plus you guys are a lot nicer on here. I used to go on Heavy Metal boards and get treated like a cancer for saying not being metal enough. Here, you can like the prequels and still be treated with the same respect as the guy who hates the prequels.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

I'm here because the original films are treated badly and it seems that this is the only place for people like me who like their stuff original. Also I'm a collector who likes all kinds of old SW things, like videos and nostalgic merchandise from the time when I wasn't even born, so I'm liking the old stuff ie. Puggo's preservations and Jambe's documentarys. I'm not interested in fan edits at all, haven't watched even one of those.

I also like the fact that this is possibly the least moderated forum and still being possibly the smartest forum I've visited. Though a little moderation once in a while wouldn't hurt since there's all kind of crap appear into threads from time to time and some people fill all threads with useless posts...

I also like the fact that this is possibly the least moderated forum and still being possibly the smartest forum I've visited. Though a little moderation once in a while wouldn't hurt since there's all kind of crap appear into threads from time to time and some people fill all threads with useless posts...

Gaffer Tape has a good point, in that we are the "outsiders" of the fan community, at least by official designation. This place gives us a sense of belonging, like any form of outsider community.

We are also bonded by an unrivaled passion for the films. I don't think a lot of fans of the official party line would go to the lengths to preserve the films and their obscure anxillary products and bootlegs, etc., the way we have. We are obsessive, but not in a creepy "I must collect every Star Wars doll" way, we just really, really like the films and appreciate the historical context of them, and most people don't dig as deep into the history as we do, nor put so much effort into appreciating them.

This makes it difficult to talk with "normal" people about the films, because we have such density of knowledge about everything. It's sort of the academic's dilemma, you can't go to a place like TFN and talk to twelve year olds about using an X0 player to capture the 1993 DE and 1986 JSC Laserdiscs, or whether Luke's lightsaber was recomposited in 1997 or 2004. It goes over their head. So, if we are a community of experts on the original versions, this is our equivalent of conferences and peer-reviewed journals. It's the only place to share, check, and expand the knowledge base.

Finally, disaster creates community. Nothing brings people together like a crisis. You can live in a neighbourhood for years and hardly speak to the people in the house next to you, but when there is a disaster in the neighbourhood suddenly you will discover a bond that you never knew was there. If Lucas hadn't suppressed the original versions, we wouldn't have needed to bond together to fight it out. If the original versions had been remastered on DVD and then Blu Ray right from the beginning of both formats, there would be no dedicated website to discuss them. So, in a weird way, this wonderful website and all the people that I've met on here--this is the one unintentional gift that Lucas' behaviour brought.

So, in a weird way, this wonderful website and all the people that I've met on here--this is the one unintentional gift that Lucas' behaviour brought.

I never thought about it like that. If I could have purchased a proper DVD of the theatrical release, I never would have found this place because I wouldn't have been looking to have my old LD transferred. The NPR version (my go-to) would still be something far in my past that I'd only heard once, when it first aired.

Splinter Of The Mind's Eye would just be a book I remember skimming through when I was in high school. Nor would I have discovered the three Brian Daley novels that take place in the 1977 universe. My Star Wars world would be a single film - no NPR, no four novels. Damn, that's sobering.

Lucas' selfishness and dishonesty - his desire to alter and control my Star Wars universe actually presented me with the opportunity to cleanse and deepen it. By trying so hard to take Star Wars away from me, he made it richer than I could ever have imagined.

Just throwing it out there, I used to post on the RedLetter Media boards a while ago, and being a community based on the fandom of Stoklasa and Co., that place is pretty awesome, as well.

You do catch some occasional flashes of bias towards something, just like here and probably anywhere else, but I'd assume there are more forums about this and comaprable topics that share this above-average posting quality.

This might only be tangentially-related to your question, but I was in a coffee shop the other night meeting up with a friend, when I overheard someone talking Star Wars with one of the baristas. And I almost threw up. Because he was "educating" this person with the official Lucas line: "You know it was originally just one script. And then he decided to cut it in half. But then even that was too long, so he had to cut each half into thirds. Then he realized that the first half was basically all exposition and the second half was where the action was, so he decided to film it first." I mastered the impulse to get up and set him straight because, honestly, I didn't feel like getting into a very nerdy argument. The most I did was mutter, "Bullshit," after every sentence he spoke. After being forced to listen for another minute or two, I realized these weren't even TF.n gushers. They certainly didn't seem to be fans of the prequels at all. But they were still towing the sickening company line, and probably didn't even realize it.

Heh, funny story ;)

But hey, take it a bit easier, will ya? If it's really the way you suggest at the end, that those people aren't really fanboys or mad-obsessed about Star Wars, it's quite plausible that they just shared some passing interest in that and exchanged stuff they overheard elsewhere without really bothering to research.

Lucas said something in a DVD interview, the dude just repeats.

I mean, when I meet up with the one or other buddy in the cafeteria and we have a chat about this and that, exchange dubious "knowledge" and opinions on various things, then boy can I imagine someone else hearing some of that stuff and just rolling their eyes at it because they know so much more about a given topic and we just come off as a bunch of know-it-all teen boppers trying to sound smart.

I mean sure, criticize and roll eyes at will, that's great, but let's keep it in perspective - people exchange overheard bullshit all the time when they're sitting in a bar. I'd much rather they believed in misinformation about Star Wars than something else. Gee, whenever we switch to lighter topics in a conversation, it's like a relief from having the constant responsibility of being reliable and right all the time.

When talking about health stuff or whatever, one's like "interesting, but I'm still not sure about that, we gotta read a lot about that before really knowing", and then it's about some irrelevant geek stuff and you just start firing away dubious random stuff that'sin your head at the moment without any pressure, and ti feels great.

I never thought about it like that. If I could have purchased a proper DVD of the theatrical release, I never would have found this place because I wouldn't have been looking to have my old LD transferred. The NPR version (my go-to) would still be something far in my past that I'd only heard once, when it first aired.

Splinter Of The Mind's Eye would just be a book I remember skimming through when I was in high school. Nor would I have discovered the three Brian Daley novels that take place in the 1977 universe. My Star Wars world would be a single film - no NPR, no four novels. Damn, that's sobering.

Lucas' selfishness and dishonesty - his desire to alter and control my Star Wars universe actually presented me with the opportunity to cleanse and deepen it. By trying so hard to take Star Wars away from me, he made it richer than I could ever have imagined.

Wow, I didn't know your Star Wars Universe was literally just the movie until recently. That must seem incredible, to have your canon so much bigger now. I envy you, but I always have.

I came here because it seemed like the only Star Wars forum where people actually had opinions beyond blindly following what Lucas puts out. This was a community where people cared and were passionate about the original, proper versions of the films, just like I did, and what's more, they were willing to do something about it.

I stayed for two reasons - the fan edits, which I'll admit I'm not as into now as I was a year or two ago; and the people that post here. You're all stand-up folks, and you make this place feel like a real community as opposed to a place for fanboys to come and circle-jerk each other about the ridiculous minuitae of the films and the EU.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that stuff to a certain extent - I participate in the immensely nerdy, nitpicky discussions, and they most definitely exist here. But there's more to this forum than that, and that's why I stay.

A friend who rarely posts here turned me on to this place after conversations about Revisited and the lack of a quality OUT. So I came to lurk around and wait for a good OUT preservation and to follow ESB:R. It didn't take long before I found myself registering- something I've never done at any other SW site. I've lurked around TFN and SW.com and the folks there seemed to like a very different Star Wars than I do. That's no big deal and can actually be very interesting. SW is there for all to take what they want from. But that's where things get ugly... I could tell that unless you subscribe to all 6 flicks and any other "cannon" material you are not welcome. So, no room for me there. Why register to a site where people don't wanna hear your thoughts on it all and have none of their own? Here I found a place that all aspects of the films can be discussed without worrying that a mod is gonna put the kabash on you for not loving AotC. Also, I heard there was a doobie gettin' passed around and I'm waitin' my turn. That's what's keepin' me here.

It's kind of the same as Firefly, where people all over bonded because of their love of a show that was unjustly cancelled long before its time. Having something important taken away only serves to underscore why you need it in the first place, even if you hadn't given it much thought before. And sharing that enthusiasm can be a sort of bond you'd never discover otherwise.

I came here for the same reason a lot of others did. I used to prefer the '97 SE's, and found the prequels to be at least acceptable to some degree, but once it really sunk in how far Lucas' disdain for the original movies actually went, and that the butchered 2004 versions were meant to replace all others, suddenly the 'real' movies took on a whole new level of importance as I rediscovered them. The quest for high quality preservations also triggered an interest in the technical aspects of movies, which I probably wouldn't have thought much about otherwise.

So really, I owe quite a lot to the existence of this forum and the people who make it what it is. It would be easier to just not care and buy into the party line, but ultimately I find it rewarding to reject the revisionist crap that has piled up and just think about the context of Star Wars the way I did when I was young. Thank goodness there are others who feel the same way.