This interview was
conducted with Margie Lee at Western Washington University in Bellingham,
Washington, on October 14th, 2005. The interviewer is Christine
Kendall.

CK: I am Christine Kendall and I am interviewing
Margie Lee for the Campus School Memories Project. And Margie, when you were
enrolled in Campus School, what was your name?

ML: My name was Margie Lee and it still is Margie Lee.

CK: And how did you happen to attend the Campus School?

ML:
My mother said it was because of my Aunt Lenore, Lenore Lee Miller, my dadís
sister. She recommended it to everyone in the Lee family. She was just sold
totally on Campus School. Iím the youngest in my family and many of the cousins
had gone to Campus School. Going back further, my father had gone to the
Training School, starting back in 1908 I believe.

CK: Did anyone else in your family attend the Campus
School? And what were their names?

ML:
Lenoreís kids, Patsy Hosman, Don Miller Iím not sure about Delayne; everyone in
my family so my two brothers and my sister. And letís see, the Palmer Lees,
they didnít go to Campus, but my cousin Leslie Lee, who later became a judge, he
went to Campus, too; and his kids too. Marian was not quite through when Campus
closed.

CK: And what are your brothers and sisterís names?

ML:
My sisterís name is Georgie and her married name is Bailey. She went to Campus
Kindergarten and then she went to Columbia in between and then she came back and
went to Campus I believe in fifth, sixth and seventh. Then I have a brother
named Peter, Peter Lee and my brother Roger is closest to me in age.

CK: What years did they attend Campus?

ML:
Well, I was trying to think what years those would be. Roger was three years
younger than I am, so probably about 1953 he started, Peter would have started
about 1947, 1946 and Georgie we wonít talk about.

CK: What were the years and grades of your attendance?

ML: Well, I went from 1955 to 1962.

CK: And did you pay any fees that youíre aware of?

ML:
I donít believe so. I really havenít investigated that. I know that there
probably were some, but minimal. It wasnít like it was a private school, but it
was not considered an expensive place to go.

CK:
And how did you get to and from school? And please share any favorite memories
of this experience.

ML: Well, I do have some memories and theyíre not
always good ones. I was living out on Chuckanut, so unfortunately there was no
public transportation. A lot of the kids came by bus or their mothers would
carpool or whatnot. My father would always take me in the morning, which was
fine, heíd drop me off. But, then coming home from school, he always had stuff,
business to do downtown so he wouldnít be able to pick me up after school. So
therefore I would have to go and wait for him and sometimes it would be hours.
He always thought I should wait in the library, which at that age, you know, it
was kind of a mixed blessing, there was a lot of times when Iíd think, ďOh I
wish I was out playing. Why canít I go home early like everybody else?Ē
But then I also really got into books. I remember, in the early years, like
Kindergarten through maybe I was thinking it was third grade, we went to the
main library. They had a childrenís room which was just beautiful. You know,
the high ceilings and the oak desks and I just really felt like any section of
the library is just fun to explore. It was an exploration and I would go
through the mysteries and then I would also go through the science section and
it was just really an experience that I hold today, whenever Iím in a library I
just feel very at home.

CK:
Do you remember the librarian in the childrenís room at all, or anything about
the staff there?

ML:
I do remember they wanted you to be quiet, but since I was alone I had no chance
to chatter. A kid at that age is a little restless, so I remember that they
were kind of wanting you to be quiet.

CK:
Did you ever use any of the other part of the library, rather than just the
childrenís room?

ML:
Well, I pretty much stayed there because I really didnít know when my dad was
going to come. So, thatís one of the reasons he wanted me to wait there is
because he could be a half an hour, maybe heíd be two hours. After heíd finally
come I was so glad and sometimes he would take me for a treat and weíd go to the
Co-op [Bookstore], which was in Old Main at that time. I remember I loved
bookstores, too, so he would go there and shop and he would buy me an Eskimo
Pie. There was like this little freezer there, so that was the fun part.

CK: So he was able to drive right up, close to theÖ

ML: Yes, he would park right by Old Main.

CK: What did you do for lunch?

ML:
Well, it varied. When we were in Kindergarten on the lower floor, in the lower
grades, I remember they would bring in these carts, large wood carts with
rollers and wheels that rolled and then they do these trays and they would serve
you, I donít know, soup. I just have such wonderful memories of this chicken
noodle soup and like these buttered green beans. It was just really nice. Then
in later grades they made us bring our lunch from home. My lunch, it varied,
whatever you came up with.

CK: Did you make your own lunch at home?

ML:
Well, thatís the problem with me. I often forgot, so Iíd be looking at other
people and they might give me a cookie or something. Being that I had a mother
that liked to sleep in and my dad wasnít real big on making lunches for kids,
Iíd usually make the minimal, like a peanut butter sandwich. Being the kid I
was, if I ever had one of those thermoses that are glass covered, they would
break like within the first 24 hours. My lunches werenít that great.

CK:
Do you remember any of your favorite classmates and if so, please name them for
us.

ML:
Well, when I heard about that question I thought, ďOh, I might get in trouble
here.Ē But, Campus School was the kind of place where you didnít have
cliques. Well, at least I donít remember it that way. I just remembered that I
really liked everyone. When you say, ďDo I have any favorites?Ē Later I
did have friends that were closer, we kept in touch. But in Campus I donít ever
remember being in a little clique. I had some that came out to play with me at
Woodstock Farm, like Marcia Livesay was a really good friend and Heidi Hanson,
who became Heidi Suni, and Cici Evans (I canít remember her married name now).
They would come out and play at Woodstock, but when we were at Campus we were
really democratic. I just felt like there werenít those kind of social things
that went on there.

CK: How about then favorite or most influential teachers?

ML:
Now, thatís a good one because I have a definite answer for that and thereís
just no doubt in my mind. It was Mr. Miller in the fourth grade. I just
absolutely adored him. Looking back, I think, from his report card or written
reports that we got at the end of the year, that he seemed to like me, too. I
just remember that he was Campus and then some. He stood for the values of
Campus, he really pushed them, to make Campus just a really unique educational
experience.

CK:
Do you remember any of your student teachers and if so can you name some of them
for us

ML:
Well, I might get in trouble on this one, too, because the ones I remember are
the ones which I got in trouble with. There was this one, I think his name was
Mr. OíConnell, and this was like, it would have to be one of the higher grades,
maybe fourth or fifth. He was very strict. I canít remember what subjects he
was student teaching in, but he decided that if you were bad in class, then you
had to stay after school. He had a certain name for this club, these people that
had to stay after school, he called the 4:10 Club. The reason he called it the
4:10 Club was because the buses would come at four. If you had to stay those
extra ten minutes, that meant you missed your bus, so we thought he was really
mean. That was just cruel, because then you would have to call home. He was a
bad one. Then we had some that were strict. Basically I donít remember them
real well. We would have them for a quarter. They might teach a couple
classes. They came and went so fast. There was a big turnover.

CK: What were your favorite subjects or classroom activities?

ML:
Well, I was a creative kid, I really liked the art and the music and the dance.
I just remember so well that those were a big part of our curriculum. Like now,
people will say, they might not even have art, or maybe once a week or something
like that. It was a huge part [for us]. The experiences we had were just so
vast. I just canít even think of them. From painting to ceramics, painting we
did all through the years; ceramics, we were able to use the facilities on
campus. They had a large kiln over at the art department and [we were] able to
use all the different colors that they had. We had such a great resource. Not
only that, but the teachers, the college teachers would come in and they would
teach art. You know, you felt like you were exploring almost everything.
Everyday was just like -- what are we going to do next?

CK: Did you save any of your projects?

ML:
Yes and my mom saved some that maybe I didnít want to save. She saved a lot of
them. There were probably hundreds of projects because we did, like I said,
such a huge variety. I do have a little Christmas tree, I think it wasnít even
fired. Maybe we dipped them in wax to preserve [them]. I remember reading a
letter (I recently inherited a lot of the family letters) and my mom is writing
my sister saying that Miss Nicol actually asked if I would make her one. So it
was kind of sweet. I saved mostly the ceramics; I think all the paintings were
destroyed, though.

CK: Did you use regular text books or other kinds of learning materials?

ML:
Well, we had regular books, textbooks. I do remember like in Mr. Millerís
class, that was the fourth grade, he brought in Alice in Wonderland.
Instead of reading a regular text, he wanted to do an alternative thing. He did
Alice in Wonderland, which I thought was really great. We had a
lot of filmstrips, we had a lot of movies. We had a lot of books, we had a
library in the building, later. We had access to the one in the main library.
We would take books out from there, we would go there. We just had a huge
variety of experiences I donít think other kids really had.

CK:
What kind of grading system was in use during your attendance? Letter grades or
narrative reports?

ML:
Narrative reports, definitely, the whole time, and it was the same for my
brothers, too, Roger and Peter. Mom saved the K through 6 [reports] on all the
kids.

CK: Were you surprised, have you looked through yours, then?

ML:
Oh, yes. I keep looking back to them for guidance. I think those teachers that
knew you when you were young, I feel they were able to spot out things that you
were good at. So I still refer to them, definitely.

CK:
Do you especially remember any creative activities, such as weaving and making
things? I know youíve already touched on some of that.

ML:
Yes, we did a lot of weaving. We would weave these mats, but then because of
the philosophy of Campus School, we also had to make the looms. Particularly
like in Mr. Millerís class, the idea was that you could make this loom out of
something you found around the house. So we used coat hangers to make those
bars and then pieces of wood and it was quite amazing. The idea was that you
could learn the whole process. That was what Campus was about, it was about the
process. Thatís why the report cards were narrative, because a simple grade was
a little goal oriented. It was felt that this process, for instance, the
weaving, you start with your loom and you weave your mat was more like a real
life experience.

CK:
Then, did you work with others on that, did you pair up with people or is it
just yourself?

ML:
Often times we did, but not with the looms and mats. But youíre right, we did
an awful lot of group activities in Campus. That was very much encouraged.

CK: What materials were you weaving with?

ML:
It was yarn. I wasnít really good at it. I was the kind of kid that I liked to
rush through a project and so I remember I didnít quite even finish my loom.
But others did.

CK:
What were your classes like? Were there a lot of student teachers observing
and/or teaching lessons as part of your lessons?

ML:
Yes, the rooms I think were large on purpose. We would have either our desks or
a rug in the front of the room and then the back of the room was reserved for
the student teachers, or the [future] teachers that were studying education.
The student teachers would be the three particular ones that we had in the room,
versus the ones that were observing us. This would be a class. I really never
knew what the classes were, but Iím sure it was something to do with education.
They would have folding chairs in the back of the room. They would sit there
and observe maybe an hour, I forget exactly. We knew about them, but we werenít
real conscious of it, it was like you got used to it. I never really thought
about it that much until one day one of the students in the class, she
disappeared, she left Campus. Somebody said that she had been giggling too
much. This might just be a childís imagination, but I thought, really, that we
were on view, and if the kids were too disruptive [they were removed]. So after
that I kind of tried to tone down my behavior.

CK: Did you attend summer school at the Campus School and if so, why?

ML: No, I never did and I didnít know anybody that did, in our family.

CK:
How about extra-curricular activities? What did you engage in? What did you do
at recess, lunchtime, and what time did you enjoy the most? What games did you
play?

ML:
Well, Iíll start in chronological order. In Kindergarten, the real young years,
we went down to the gym and weíd play, I remember this, Brownies and Fairies.
And then this one called, Crows and Cranes, I believe. These really were
good for the imagination; they werenít just exercises, these [were] fun games.
Later we would start more organized things, like maybe softball, which was fun.
Weíd play our games out where Red Square is, there was a big black top surface
out there. We could play softball and then there was a square, where you could
play maybe hopscotch and then square ball or whatever it was that we played. Of
course, I loved anything moving. I was a really athletic kid. Itís just really
good, you burned off steam, plus we did learn a lot of really good skills. They
stressed this at Campus, that you werenít just this brain. They wanted you to
learn, I guess, these kinesthetic skills, like, they had swimming over in the
main campus pool, primarily with Miss Weythman. I remember her; she was kind of
a large lady. She didnít look like a P.E. teacher, really because she wasnít
fit, but she was a very good teacher, she was very severe. In fact, I was
reading, my brother Peter had some kind of class newspaper, and it said that,
she had two kids in his class that didnít know how to swim and so she tied a
rope around them.

CK: Oh my.

ML:
I remember swimming and then we also, in the main gym weíd do dancing. This
kind of square dancing and Virginia reel I remember. I think Miss Weythman may
have retired and then we had Miss Arnett who taught. Now, going back to lunch
hour, I donít remember too much about that, except eating. But I do remember
one year, I canít remember who the teacher was (was it fourth or fifth grade)?
The teacher let us bring in these forty-five records, we were kind of in to rock
and roll and so we would play those and dance. I remember that as just one of
the times I really enjoyed dancing, because it wasnít like a real set up. You
just danced because you enjoyed it, so, that was pretty cool.

CK:
Getting back to the swimming, did they actually instruct you in different
swimming strokes and such?

ML:
Yes. Itís funny that you mention that because what I remember most was our
horrible bathing suits. We had this cotton that kind of stretched out and it
was just allÖ

CK: It was issued to you?

ML:
They issued you your bathing suit when you came in, and a towel. Like I said,
they were all faded cotton and they were really ugly. The boys had to wear
girlsí bathing suits, really gross. But we all brought our own caps I think I
remember and they had their name written right over the top. I think, as I
remember, she just got us in the pool. I know I learned to swim. So I think it
must have been that.

CK: So it wasnít just a free for all in the pool.

ML:
Oh, no, no, she was strict. I think she had one of those poles and [would] get
you going out. Of course, I liked to swim, but there probably were people that
just hated it. The only thing was I was often in the Nurseís Office because I
always had these allergies. So I missed swimming [a lot] and if you missed
swimming you had to stay in the room with probably a student teacher, which
wasnít a good thing.

CK:
Weíve already mentioned the college library, but did you visit the college
itself, attend assemblies or sporting events or anything else at the college
when you were in the Campus School? Do you have any special memories of those
experiences?

ML:
Yes, oh yes, very much so. We made use of almost everything. I remember going
to the science building. I think they had a planetarium, and just being
enthralled with that. And then also their collection, they had the rock
collection and probably some taxidermy things up there. That was wonderful. As
far as sporting, Iím just wondering if I really ever did. It doesnít ring any
bells.

CK: Plays or musical events?

ML:
Well, I probably did, but I just canít really remember, because I went to so
many later, after I got out of Campus.

CK: What was the transition like for you when you began to attend the
public school?

ML:
Well, I went from sixth grade in Campus over to Fairhaven Junior High (at that
time it was a junior high), in seventh grade. I noticed right away a big
difference. We were shuttled from one class, every hour it was a different
class, all new people, huge classes. Also, they had the grading system, A, B,
C. I thought at first, ďWell, this is going to be kind of a fun thing.Ē
But I remember that I really was interested in getting a good grade, but then
after I got it, I thought, ďWell, whatís this all about? Itís not really
that fun.Ē So I think that learning was better at Campus. The idea of a
grade as an end to itself, it seemed to not be as fun.

CK: Were there any other [differences] that especially effected you?

ML:
Well, the whole situation was so different. What happened was, later in life,
in my twenties, I had an art exhibit and Miss Nicol came to it. Now she was my
Kindergarten teacher and she was a big proponent of Campus School. I said, ďYou
know, that was just the greatest experience of my life, what was it about
Campus, was it just an accident?Ē And she said, ďNo, no no; no accident.Ē
She said that Campus was based on an educational theory, and I thought, ďThis
is really interesting.Ē I sort of pursued it a little bit. She said it was
based on Columbia Teacherís College in New York City, John Dewey [was] a
philosopher of education, and [it was based on] his theories. I look back and
yes, a lot of our teachers came out of Columbia Teacherís College in New York,
which was kind of odd, being here in Bellingham. Itís a long way away.

I was kind of curious about
that and I looked that up. I found out that there were three basic things that
made Campus unique and I mentioned one of them already: the process versus a
goal, like a grade, the process was the important thing. Campus School was
based on learning by doing, which I kind of [already] said a little bit about
that. Like, making the loom, you make that from scratch. Itís not like a
mental thing where you study how looms were made, you made the loom. You made
it from things that you might find around the house

The second thing would be
that it was community based, we were part of our community. We were expected to
work together, in groups, individually, [and] as a class. But we were also
expected to know about the rest of Western. We would use the art department, or
say, the gym or these [other places.] [We were also expected to] be a part of
Bellingham. We took countless field trips, like to the train station and
Georgia Pacific, which was a different thing at that time. So it was very much
this community thing.

The third thing would be
student directed. So instead of like the teacher saying, ďOkay, everybody,
weíre going to do this, this and this.Ē They would say, ďOkay, weíre
going to study this,Ē say, magnetism, ďOkay, and weíll put you in groups
and you pick a leader and then you study it.Ē Because of this, it really
served you for life, because thatís really what youíre going to do in life,
youíre going to have to work with other people, youíre going to have to come up
with some ideas; instead of being told, you will do this.

I think that those things
at Campus School were so good that later when I got to public school, most of
the experiences were not as good. They didnít compare. But I did have certain
teachers in Fairhaven and Sehome High that I really clicked with. I think those
were teachers that were sort of in that mold. So, I would say that Campus, the
experience was so unique. Iím so glad that youíre doing this project, because
it really should be recorded so that people will know what made it that strong.

CK:
When your school went on these field trips, how did the school get to and from
places like the train station or Puget Sound Pulp and Paper?

ML:
I think it could have been school buses, though [we] did not have school buses
for kids, as far as I remember. It could have been that or it might have been
that we had a tremendous amount of parent involvement.

CK: Did you?

ML:
Yes. Particularly like for birthdays, we would celebrate peopleís birthdays.
And the parents would get real involved. Theyíd bring in cupcakes and cider or
something. So the parents could have formed car pools or something. I donít
really remember. I do remember very vividly though being down at the roundhouse
or these [other] experiences as a child, itís just fabulous. You just wouldnít
ordinarily get to see things like that, the inside of the paper mill and how
they make paper. I remember we saw how they made paper and we came back to
class and then we made paper. So there was this follow through that was really
good, too.

CK: What further education did you pursue, college, graduate or professional
school?

ML:
Well, I went here to Western and I majored in geology. Then I went on to
different art schools, back in New York City and then I studied a little bit in
Seattle with an artist named Stuart Moldrem who was a Bellingham guy (also a
Campus Schooler), so thatís kind of important. Then after I studied a lot of
art, then I kind of got interested in literature and writing and so then I was
in Boston so I went to Harvard at night and got a masterís in American and
English literature. Thatís about it.

CK: Has your attendance at the Campus School influenced your life?

ML:
Oh, very much so. I just canít say that enough. In fact, when I met my husband
I started talking a little bit about it and then he started talking about he
went to a high school [like that]. My husband is from New York City and his
high school actually was the laboratory school for Columbia Teacherís College.
So we were comparing notes and he said, ďIdentical!The same kind of
learning experience, the same kind of class! I was going to mention that in
his class there was this diversity. In Bellingham, itís very homogeneous, but
at that time, at Campus; we had a black student and we also had a Native
American. We had Floyd whoís from the Lummi Nation [and Harry Wells, who was
Black.] So that kind of thing was encouraged at Campus. Also, comparing notes
with my husband, he also said that was just the best educational experience of
his life. He will, like at times in my life, since Iím an artist and a writer,
Iíll be pursuing these projects and heíll say, ďOh, yeah, thatís that Campus
School thing. Youíre doing that Campus School thing.Ē I think that he
recognized that because he really valued that experience too.

My art teachers influenced
me the most, especially Gene Vike and Ruth Kelsey. I had Kelsey at Campus and I
went to her house once a week for extra art lessons with some older kids
including my brother Peter. She lived about a block off campus. I remember it
was Kelsey who said, ďNo erasers in this class.Ē Then Vike I had in
Campus as a child and later when I was an adult and went to Western. I noticed
he allowed a certain freedom of expression and I asked him about how he taught
at Campus School. He said he used to bring in a stack of manilla paper and put
it in the middle of the table and then we were to draw. When we finished one we
were just to take another sheet and so on -- keep the flow going. So I felt
this enormous freedom and the idea that you just keep going and develop this eye
hand coordination without anything in-between. Also that you connect directly
to your unconscious without ďediting.Ē I suppose today they would call it
ďright brain.Ē But I think we were so lucky to have accomplished artists and
that art was taught regularly. That it wasnít just a craft or something to kill
time.

It has influenced me to
this day -- it remains with me, as an artist, as a writer and as a teacher.

CK: Did you have any international students in school with you?

ML: Well, not in our grade, but itís possible, sure.

CK:
Are you still in touch with any Campus School classmates? And if so, can you
help us contact them?

ML:
Yes, I am in touch with a few. Iím in touch with Peggy Shull whoís in Seattle
and works at a travel agency. Weíre a class that has had at least three
reunions. We meet, generally in the ten year reunion for our high school; we
will also have a Campus School reunion that same day. Last one we had would be
1998. We did all get together then. I remember we got together out at
Woodstock Farm. We had a really good turn out. There were just about two or
three people that were missing. We all sat on the lawn. I remember Christian
Murray, who was Carolyn Murray at that time, she kind of led us in a little
dialogue and we each went around and discussed what we were doing and it was
great. So I do have a lot of names. I donít have addresses, kind of like I
lost touch with that, but Peggy, I definitely have her e-mail and her number and
stuff like that.

CK:
I want to back up to something you mentioned, that there were birthday parties
and people brought cupcakes.

ML:
The funny thing about my birthday, is there were four of us that had either
March 16th or March 15th. There was Charlie Ciszek, Cici
Evans, me, anyway, there were four of us. So we had like a really big thing.
Plus, since March 17th is St. Patrickís day, then that was just a
natural.

CK: A lot of green cupcakes.

ML:
A lot of green cupcakes, thatís right. Oh, and Scott Walker, thatís right.
Scott Walker who was a lawyer in Bellingham, I believe now he went into a
business. Heís one you could contact.

CK:
Do you have any Campus School memorabilia, including photographs, class
publication, crafts, artwork, and may we contact you about these items?

ML:
Well, I have donated what I call my reindeer. We made a lot of these paper-mache
things, but this, I really think the process must have been better than paper-mache,
because itís still perfectly preserved. You blow up a balloon and then you put
the

paper-mache around it and
then you pop the balloon. We did quite a bit of that and this was a particular
one for I guess Christmas. I put branches from a tree for the antlers and a
little red nose and itís perfectly preserved. We made a lot of forks and
spoons.

CK: Out of what material?

ML:
Well, you get kind of a soft wood. There was a lot of woodworking there at
Campus. They had these tables with vices and saws. I donít know how they
trusted us with that. We would put those in the vices and youíd get these
digging implements, they looked really primitive; then the saw for the fork.
You draw the lines to make the fork and then you use a saw to cut out in between
the two, those things that stick out. Then you would use sand paper and kind of
sand them and then pretty soon youíd put maybe some lacquer on it. We did an
awful lot of stuff with wood. That was a big part of Campus. Making boats I
remember, we had these blocks of wood and then you put more blocks on them and
then youíd paint them.

CK: Would you take them anywhere and float them?

ML:
Oh, yes. Then weíd float them. I canít remember, there werenít that many
fountains. There was the Rain Forest (1959) one up across from the old
library. I donít know if thatís still here.

CK: Itís actually been moved now, but it is still on Campus, the Rain
Forest sculpture.

ML: Right, there was that one for sure; weíd see what they looked like.

CK:
Did you have aprons you wore for all the painting or any safety goggles or
anything like that?

ML:
I donít remember safety goggles; we probably did have aprons though, because we
did a lot of painting. These things were messy, yeah, for sure.

CK:
So are there any favorite memories of your Campus School days or any comments
about areas not covered by the questions above? This is our last question, so
itís a chance to just wrap up with any other memories you have.

ML:
Well, I think, going back, probably to Mr. Miller. My friend Marcia Livesey and
I, (I donít know how this started, I think it started at Campfire Girls), we
started a newspaper we called the Gossip Times.

CK: This is your own, outside of Campus?

ML:
Our own newspaper. I think it started at Campfire Girls, because we had this
big stack of Mad magazines and we were just absolutely crazy about
Mad magazine. We thought that was just the greatest. I donít
know how we started; we just started pretending to have one about our class,
kind of a satirical thing. So Marcia and I started that and pretty soon we got
I think Tyler Fleeson and Steve Glass.

CK: Were they also Campus Schoolers?

ML:
Yes, yes. Tylerís Fleesonís one you should definitely check out. He lives down
near Port Townsend now. He was like one of the more flamboyant members, just
really creative and lively and everything. He had this great sense of humor and
a great artist too. I think now heís a poet. And then Steve Glass also a very
sharp wit. So, we came out with this newspaper, I canít remember how often it
came out. First we started with just carbon copies, then we progressed maybe to
mimeograph.

CK: Did you actually type these or did you just handwrite?

ML: We did a lot of
handwritten and I think later we might have done some typed copies. Iíll just
never forget some of the humorous things in that paper. For example, Mr. Miller
was this very down to earth ecology guy. Tyler had drawn a car, like a
thunderbird with big fins, like they had back in those days, in the Fifties, and
they said, ďMr. Millerís got a new car!Ē We made fun of the people in
the class, but it was all in good humor and satirical, like I said.

CK: No feathers were ruffled by it?

ML:
No, the only problem that we did get in, is that Marcia and I, we charged a
nickel, which was reasonable. But then we thought we wanted to maybe have a
little ad in there. The ad was that we were going to sell shares, like stocks.
The classmates would buy a share and then we would be building a swimming pool;
that was the plan.

CK: For your school or for yourselves?

ML:
Well, for the people that bought shares. They would be able to use our swimming
pool that we were going to build.

CK: You were entrepreneurs.

ML:
Entrepreneurs. Well, weíd gotten the idea because there was like an ad on the
cover of Popular Mechanics that said, ďBuild your own pool for
$200.Ē So it wasnít unreasonable, all we needed was $200.

CK: Given your Campus School experience, very hands-on.

ML:
We were going to build it, I think, in my parentsí back yard. So anyway, the ad
said ďBuy a Share if you Dare.Ē Students actually thought it might
work. We were serious as fourth graders, you know. So we sold quite a few
shares. Marcia [who] was supposed to be the treasurer, (Marcia Livesey),
anyway, one day Marcia came in and she said, ďThe treasuryís gone, my
brother took it;Ē or something and spent it. So we had to explain to our
classmates what happened.

CK: It was embezzlement of theÖ

ML:
I said, ďWell, you know, thatís the way it is with the stock market. It
comes and goes.Ē It was something, you know, even a few a years ago my
mother was mentioning it, and she goes, ďOh and then people were so mad about
that.Ē I donít think they ever got over it. I do wish weíd saved some
copies of that, the Gossip Times. I know we carried it out at
least one year, because then when we got to fifth grade, Mr. Lamb, he was pretty
supportive.

CK: You had a Mr. Lamb?

ML: Mr. Lamb taught fifth grade.

CK: I had a Mr. Lamb in the sixth grade, but that was in Germany. How
interesting.

ML:
He was somebodyís relative; oh, no. See, a lot of these people were kind of
related to different people in the class. Like our sixth grade teacher (Mr.
Winslow) was related to Bev Melland, who was in my class. He was her uncle, I
think. But Mr. Lamb, he was very supportive and he said, ďYou want to use
the mimeograph?Ē and whatnot. But by that time we had kind of lost
interest. It folded, I think, probably due to the scandal. So that was a
really good memory.

I think that the class was
so good, I mean, thereís talent there, real talent. The sharing, I should
mention the sharing, which I thought was a really good idea. Every morning, and
I canít remember which grades this went on in, but you got to school and then
you would get up, I canít remember if it was timed, if you had like two minutes
or five or whatever. Each student was supposed to get up and say what happened
the day before, anything that went on. It could be anything, ďI went out to
dinner with my parent.Ē I remember that as a really good experience because
you developed a story that way, from your life experience. You get up and you
could embellish it, it could be anything. Being in front of a group, too, I
think was extremely important. Because it taught everybody to be a leader or to
be comfortable in front of a group I should say. So that experience was just
really good.

Then the other, I have to
mention this, is the Christmas singing, which we talked about earlier. I canít
remember, I think maybe it was the entire month of December or maybe the last
two weeks. But we would arrive at Campus, I canít remember if it went into
class time or if you got here early, but you walked in the door and you went
right to the auditorium instead of going to your classroom. The little kids
would I guess bring their chairs and then the others would sit in the regular
chairs in the auditorium. They would project the words of Christmas carols on
the screen. It was just a wonderful experience. I just really have always
enjoyed singing with a group and memorized all those words. As I remember those
were Christmas carols. But in our room, we did have a Jewish student, Steve
Glass is Jewish. So at Christmas time we would also celebrate Hanukah. We
learned that song, I have a little dreidel; and then there was
something to do with that. I look at kids now where there might not be able to
sing Christmas carols or they might not be able to do this because it touches on
the religion question and I thought Campus handled it perfectly in that it
respected all of them. If there was a Jewish kid you would do the Hanukah song
and then you would have your Christmas carols, too. It was multi-cultural
instead of trying to just eliminate the whole issue.

CK:
What about the little mats? You did mention that in your classroom, at the
front of the room you had your mats and then you had your desks.

ML:
Well, yes; in the early grades we had a big rug and you would sit on that
cross-legged and the teacher would be up front. Then I think it was when we
went up to the second level of Campus School in third grade, then we started
sitting at real desks, but before that we sat on this big rug. Then if you had
a project, like you were drawing, then you would go back to the back of the room
and there would be places where you could paint or maybe an easel. All the
rooms seemed to have a little library where you could go and just sit there, you
know, a little library where you could sit there and read. Then also there were
the rugs that we each had to have our naps.

CK: What grades did you do this napping in?

ML:
It seemed like it went on a little too long because after a while you didnít
really need a nap. Then there would be a lot of chit chat and people getting in
trouble. I remember that more than ever actually sleeping, but I suppose in the
early grades you really appreciated it. Later, there was I think certain
disciplinary problems at Campus that any school has. The way I remember them
handling it is sort of a time out. If you were caught talking and you were
disruptive, the teacher, at least what happened to me, is theyíd say, ďJust
park yourself in my office.Ē I just went.

CK: The teacher had a separate office from the classroom?

ML:
They all did, yes. These were places where you didnít go that much unless I
think there was a parent-teacher conference. You might go at that time. But,
then, I was kind of a disruptive kid, did a lot of talking, so the teacher would
say, ďPark yourself in my office.Ē

CK:
Earlier, when we were walking around the school before we started the interview,
you pointed out the janitors [closets], you were familiar with them and the
Nurseís Office.

ML:
Yes, we had a nurse. I think her name was Miss Summers and she had her own
little office. You would go in there if you had a cold or you were getting a
temperature. She even had a little cot you could lie down on. If you were
really sick, theyíd call your parents and theyíd come and get you. But you
could sit there a long time.

CK:
Well, I think this about wraps our interview today Margie and I really
appreciate listening to your memories.