Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Can Prince Amukamara fall to #13

thelomasbrowns wrote:

slybri19 wrote:

Can he? Yes. Will he? I doubt it. If Peterson goes before #7, I could easily see the 49ers snagging him. After that, it's Dallas at #9 and Houston at #11 that scares me. Of course, the Cowgirls could go OT and the Texans could opt for a DE or OLB for their new 3-4 defense, but that's wishful thinking. I also wouldn't be incredibly surprised to see the Vikings take him at #12.

Don't you think Harbaugh would want to make a defining move in his first year? Taking the second-best CB wouldn't seem to qualify.

The question is not about whether he's the first best or second best, or seventh best. The question is, will that player be the best one available that makes sense for the team. If Amukamara is there at #7 and he's the best player for them, I don't see Harbaugh passing on him. I think there is a possibility that if Gabbert is there, that Harbaugh will pick him over Amukamara.

If Harbaugh wants a "defining" move in his first year, he should do the best things he can to win the NFC West. No 49ers fan is going to laud him for his draft pick while they are struggling to win the weakest conference in all the NFL. By comparison, if they do win the NFCW and go to the playoffs, but his draft picks don't pan out, the fans will hardly say a word about that.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

Can he? Yes. Will he? I doubt it. If Peterson goes before #7, I could easily see the 49ers snagging him. After that, it's Dallas at #9 and Houston at #11 that scares me. Of course, the Cowgirls could go OT and the Texans could opt for a DE or OLB for their new 3-4 defense, but that's wishful thinking. I also wouldn't be incredibly surprised to see the Vikings take him at #12.

Don't you think Harbaugh would want to make a defining move in his first year? Taking the second-best CB wouldn't seem to qualify.

The question is not about whether he's the first best or second best, or seventh best. The question is, will that player be the best one available that makes sense for the team. If Amukamara is there at #7 and he's the best player for them, I don't see Harbaugh passing on him. I think there is a possibility that if Gabbert is there, that Harbaugh will pick him over Amukamara.

If Harbaugh wants a "defining" move in his first year, he should do the best things he can to win the NFC West. No 49ers fan is going to laud him for his draft pick while they are struggling to win the weakest conference in all the NFL. By comparison, if they do win the NFCW and go to the playoffs, but his draft picks don't pan out, the fans will hardly say a word about that.

I personally think that the 49ers will not draft a QB early this year. I think they re-sign Smith and wait until next year when Luck will be in the draft. Then they will trade as much as they need to move up to #1 to get him. I'm thinking a N.O. Saints for Ricky Williams type move.

April 12th, 2011, 8:44 pm

Leo

5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: January 11th, 2005, 11:35 pmPosts: 1085

Re: Can Prince Amukamara fall to #13

From what I've heard/read Amukamara is not a 'shutdown' type CB there doesn't warrant a top 10 selection. My worry is he goes #11 or #12 just before the Lions pick.

_________________The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

From what I've heard/read Amukamara is not a 'shutdown' type CB there doesn't warrant a top 10 selection. My worry is he goes #11 or #12 just before the Lions pick.

Pat Williams retired, and Jarred Allen is a free agent. The Vikings have bigger fish to fry than CB.

I think the Texans worry about a 3-4 defensive lineman before they worry about a CB.

April 12th, 2011, 9:29 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Can Prince Amukamara fall to #13

BillySims wrote:

Leo wrote:

From what I've heard/read Amukamara is not a 'shutdown' type CB there doesn't warrant a top 10 selection. My worry is he goes #11 or #12 just before the Lions pick.

Pat Williams retired, and Jarred Allen is a free agent. The Vikings have bigger fish to fry than CB.

I think the Texans worry about a 3-4 defensive lineman before they worry about a CB.

My understanding is that Pat Williams has not yet officially retired. He may play another year. Jared Allen is not the free agent end, it's Ray Edwards that's staring at free agency. But you are right, the Vikings have to start addressing other issues before their secondary. QB is actually first and foremost among them, then a DE or OT.

The Texans took Kareem Jackson with their first pick last season, so the understanding out of Houston is that the front office isn't looking at corners in round one. With their switch to the 34 defense, they need pieces specific to that puzzle, which means a hard look at nose tackle and rush linebackers. I think the Texans either take Aldon Smith or look to move down.

Therefore the concern isn't that either Houston or Minnesota takes Amukamara, but that one of those two teams will trade down with a team that covets Prince for their secondary beyond Detroit. Fortunately, there really isn't a team within striking distance that is that hard up for a CB.

The team to be concerned with is Washington. Although they have needs all over the place, they are looking at Carlos Rogers becoming a free agent. He is a solid cover guy, but can't catch a hairball if he were made of velcro. Most folks expect the Redskins to take Julio Jones if he's there, but if he's gone I wouldn't be surprised to see Amukamara go to the 'skins. Shanahan likes shutdown corners, and despite what is being said recently, Amukamara can be that type of player.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

Can he? Yes. Will he? I doubt it. If Peterson goes before #7, I could easily see the 49ers snagging him. After that, it's Dallas at #9 and Houston at #11 that scares me. Of course, the Cowgirls could go OT and the Texans could opt for a DE or OLB for their new 3-4 defense, but that's wishful thinking. I also wouldn't be incredibly surprised to see the Vikings take him at #12.

Don't you think Harbaugh would want to make a defining move in his first year? Taking the second-best CB wouldn't seem to qualify.

I always laugh when people say stuff like this, as if positional rankings really mean anything. For instance, one could argue that this year's 5th best DE is a better player than the #1 MLB, #1 S, #1 RB, #2 OLB, #2 OT, #3 QB, or #3 WR. Sure, it's subjective, but talent is talent. It's not a player's fault if his position is especially deep or strong in any given draft.

Allen Park— There are many fans who would love to see the Lions select Nebraska cornerback Prince Amukamara with the 13th pick in the draft this month.

But in a conference call Thursday, ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay hinted those same fans might be better served with the Lions selecting Colorado cornerback Jimmy Smith.

"Jimmy Smith, from a talent standpoint, I gave a grade equivalent of a top-10 to 15 grade and had him as the second-best corner in this class, with (LSU's) Patrick Peterson being one, Jimmy Smith two and Prince Amukamara three," McShay said.

Smith is one of the most physically gifted players in the draft (6-foot-2, 211 pounds).

Brushes with the law and four failed drug tests in college have put Smith's character into question.

"The character concerns have been the big question mark with Smith," McShay said. "But in the last week or so, going back and talking with his coaches at Colorado and talking with teams in the NFL, I'm getting a general consensus that he's starting to mature and realizes that he can't run with the same crowd.

"If he does all the little things right early in his career, he can shed this reputation and be a great player."

Smith visited Allen Park and the Lions in March.

Bowers on the table

If the Lions pass on a cornerback at No. 13, could they get the best pass rusher in the draft?

McShay thinks they might.

He said it was possible Clemson defensive end Da'Quan Bowers , considered by some analysts to be the best pure pass rusher in the draft, could fall to the Lions at 13.

Bowers had 15 1/2 sacks last season and was considered a top pick after the year, but has fallen recently on concerns about the stability and long-term prognosis of a left knee he had surgically repaired in January.

"Let's just say this, from an evaluation standpoint, if you are comfortable with Da'Quan Bowers medically, and you've gotten that clearance from your medical staff and you're the Detroit Lions sitting there at 13, you're getting a heck of a deal, I think," McShay said. "You can plug him in as a starter. He may never be the elite pass rusher that you'd hope to get with a top-five pick, but he's an every-down player.

"He's someone who can peel off the edge versus the run, stout versus the run when teams run at him, and will provide some pass rush ability. He has the quickness to power moves and a strong upper body to drive offensive tackles back. I think he'd be a perfect fit there."

The choice at tackleWhen it comes to selecting an offensive tackle, McShay believes Boston College's Anthony Castonzo could step in and contribute right away for the Lions.

But he thinks USC's Tyron Smith has the most upside and could be a pick for the future.

"A guy who could develop into being the best in this year's class, I think, is Tyron Smith," McShay said. "In Detroit's case, maybe you have a little time to develop him before you ask him to step into a full-time starting role. Maybe it's a little bit of right tackle and then left tackle later in his career.

"I think if Smith was available, which is a possibility — everyone has Dallas taking him at No. 9, but Dallas could trade back or go in a different direction and if Smith is there — I think he's a perfect fit when it's all said and done and he should be the best from this class."

After the first roundIf the Lions can't fill their cornerback need in the first round, there are a number of good players who should still be on the board in the second round, according to McShay.

" Aaron Williams from Texas could probably be early second round. Brandon Harris (Miami) is late first, early second," he said. "I think of all the cornerbacks in this draft, the player who has the chance to be the best value, though, is Ras-I Dowling from Virginia. I had a late first-round grade on him coming into the year and he just couldn't stay healthy. But when he's healthy, I think he has better physical tools than Chris Cook , who was drafted in the second round by the Vikings a year ago.

"If he's healthy and ready to go he has a chance to come in and contribute right away and would be a great pick for the Lions in the second round."

ESPN analyst JC Joyner thinks Nebraska cornerback Prince Amukamara, a candidate to be selected by the Lions with the 13th pick, is rated far too high in this year's NFL draft.

And he's got data to prove it.

Joyner broke down the statistics of Amukamara and some of the draft's other corners and found that he lagged behind.

"In fact, his performance level placed him well behind some other cornerbacks that are considered borderline first-round choices," Joyner wrote.

In the 10 games in which the Cornhuskers faced FBS competition (Kansas State, Texas, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Iowa State, Texas A&M, Colorado, Oklahoma and two games against Washington), Amukamara was targeted 37 times and gave up 17 completions for 297 yards (8.7 yards per catch average) with three touchdowns. On plays over 30 yards, Joyner notes that teams completed three of their four attempts against Amukamara for 161 yards.

Amukamara gave up 11 completions/defensive penalties in 20 vertical pass attempts, according to Joyner, which equates to a 45-percent success rate. That would have ranked 82nd in that category at the pro level last season. The 14.1 vertical yards per attempt (YPA) and 16.6 stretch vertical YPA would also have placed him in the bottom quarter of the league in those categories.

Joyner admits that Amukamara's numbers were skewed by his performance against Oklahoma State star wideout Justin Blackmon (Blackmon went 3-for-6 for 144 total reception/penalty yards and a touchdown), but writes that even if you subtract that game, he still gave up a nearly 50-percent completion rate on all other passes.

Colorado cornerback Jimmy Smith is considered another draft candidate for the Lions. In an eight-game sample (Colorado State, California, Hawaii, Georgia, Missouri, Baylor, Oklahoma and Nebraska), Smith was targeted 21 times and gave up eight completions for 73 yards, or a 3.5 YPA. He also had a 3.6 YPA on passes of more than 11 yards and a 2.3 YPA on seven passes of 20 yards or more.

"The Georgia game included two targets in which Smith was covering consensus No. 1 wide receiver A.J. Green, both of which fell incomplete," Joyner notes.

Regarding the Blackmon/Prince ass-whoppin'....Prince slipped one on play where he was right on Blackmon's heels and Blackmon went untouched for over 50 yards for a TD. So...a simple slip or trip can make the stats look really, really bad. Also, one play for 70 yards or so was a flea-flicker and Blackmon knew exactly where the ball was coming from his weak-armed QB who underthrows the ball on every play.

Prince had a terrible game, but outside of a trick play and a slipping, he did pretty well (Blackmon did own him on blocks though).

Blackmon is a hell of a WR - in all aspects of the game - and would make any CB look like a chump, even Peterson.

the thing is if you eliminate that 1 game then he is up to around 50% success rate which isnt very good against not so great wrs. in the nfl he is gonna face justin blackmon or better every week

April 19th, 2011, 8:15 pm

JL

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: December 13th, 2005, 2:09 pmPosts: 536

Re: Can Prince Amukamara fall to #13

I know this rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but if the Lions can pick a CB at #13 then I hope it's Smith out of Colorado.

_________________If God isn't a Lions fan, then why is the sky Honolulu Blue?

April 19th, 2011, 8:41 pm

allenslions

Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 amPosts: 306

Re: Can Prince Amukamara fall to #13

blackmon is a gifted receiver but a notch below aj green who was shut down completely by smith.I have always said that lsu cornerback pat peterson reminded me of charles woodson and that smith plays like nnamdi.now who would'nt take nnamdi at 13.

April 19th, 2011, 9:17 pm

kdsberman

Team MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3426Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Can Prince Amukamara fall to #13

allenslions wrote:

blackmon is a gifted receiver but a notch below aj green who was shut down completely by smith.I have always said that lsu cornerback pat peterson reminded me of charles woodson and that smith plays like nnamdi.now who would'nt take nnamdi at 13.

Just out of curiosity, do you feel there is any chance the Lions take Jimmy Smith at 13? I mean, if they feel he could be another Nndamdi, then why not, right?

i think there is a very good chance they take him at 13.now i do think there looking to trade down around 19 or 20 with the giants being the team they may dance with.but dont be surprised if the buc,s dont try to jump up for one of the top de's.but detroits main target will still be smith.the only way i see them goin away from smith is if they can get another 2rd pick still high enough to where they can still pick-up dowling then they would go ot in round one.and it would have to be costanzo as i dont think there high on the others.