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The question then, perhaps, is do freemasons become high-ranking officials or do high-ranking officials become freemasons? Freemasons might rule the world, but they might rule the world anyway even if they weren't freemasons.

But no, I don't think there's any sort of conspiratorial secret(ish) society with enough power to rule the world. I find it unlikely.

“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.” – Bill Hicks

Well, I simply do not know anymore. I'm not paranoid by nature and used to dismiss the notion with a laugh, but...

Who composed the French hymn? A freemason. Who was behind the Revolution, the barricades, the separation between church and state? The freemasons. Which politicians are currently at the helm - and have been for decades? Freemasons.

Let us not forget that they coopt each other, it is supposed to be a fraternity of sorts. *pauses and muses* Supposing there IS a world order at stake, then surely THEY would profit by it. So I do not think one can simply rule it out any longer.

Oh, I don't rule it out, I just find it unlikely. Powerful people have powerful egos. If nothing else I am dubious that you could get the requisite amount of powerful men to work together efficiently even when it's in their interest.

You know, you could perhaps compare it to organized crime. For decades J Edgar Hoover publicly denied that organized crime existed and there's no evidence I know of to suggest he felt differently in private. The organized crime network in the US at that time really was a secret society that controlled, well not the world, but many major US cities and had national influence. But the thing was, none of the members ever really trusted each other. They worked together up to a point but would screw each other over wherever they could. I'm thinking this kind of basic human failing would be an obstacle for your Freemasons, Illuminati or whoever else too.

Things would become exponentially more difficult when you start trying to get powerful men from radically different cultures and religions to cooperate. Again, organized crime in the US shows us some of that but the problem would be infinitely harder to overcome on the world stage.

Again, I'm not ruling it out. I just find it unlikely. You may be interested to know, however, that Hoover was a Freemason.

I think ultimately this kind of thing doesn't interest me as much as it might other people because I've already accepted that the world is run by the insanely wealthy elite. The 1% or however you wish to refer to them. Beyond that it's all just details, isn't it? The almighty dollar reigns supreme as always.

“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.” – Bill Hicks

I'm aware of conflicts of interests between all those people from different continents, cultures and religions, and it perplexes me, as it does not compute with one overreaching brotherhood. And you're right, money is power. But it's not the ONLY kind of power... suppose you win the lottery. You could (depending on the amount of cash involved) become instantly immensely rich. But I very much doubt that you would become at once powerful. For that, you need a wide network, strings to pull, etc. No money can buy that. Just because you're as wealthy as a maharadjah does not mean your control of events is instantly boosted...

The affluent have power, but those with the greater power are lobbies (media, pharmaceutical, oil, ...) and corporations. *frowns* And possibly, freemasons over all of them.

And you're right, money is power. But it's not the ONLY kind of power...

That's true. There's also religion.

As for winning the lottery, that might make you rich, but it doesn't get you into the ranks of the truly wealthy. The lottery can only make you movie star rich, not Donald Trump rich.

Corporations though, now I think you're getting warmer. And they fit very nicely with my organized crime model. And they may well be riddled with Freemasons and the like but ultimately their interests only align up to a certain point. They all still want to be top dog. I just cannot really believe in the kind of cooperation required to pull it all off. It doesn't fit my concept of human nature.

Amusingly, perhaps ironically, I'm too pessimistic and cynical to really believe a group of humans could pull it off.

I feel the same way about things like 9/11 conspiracy theories. I believe the government to be morally capable of doing something that terrible. I doubt their practical ability to pull it off and get away with it.

I'm really not ruling anything out though. I can only say what I find to be more or less likely.

“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.” – Bill Hicks