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Topic Review (Newest First)

10-05-2013 12:29 AM

Arco-Zakus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans5.8

... But why, oh why, oh why people get so upset about how other people maintain their vehicles is beyond me.

That's easy. If someone else is doing it differently than I am, and they turn out to be right, that makes me (gasp!) wrong! No, no, no, I don't wanna' be wrong! Everyone has to do it just like I do so we can all be right!

Quote:

... So yeah, that's why I do it myself too. ...

I do it myself so I'll know that the old filter's O-ring didn't get left stuck to the block when the new filter was installed and that the drain plug got torqued properly so it won't fall out while I'm driving somewhere. I'd pay the price to have someone else do it if I felt like I could trust them. That way I wouldn't have to worry about getting stuck under my car saying, "Help, I've fallen off my creeper and I can't get up!"

10-04-2013 11:55 PM

Romans5.8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

My engine cost several thousands of dollars. to replace it .. even more.
The oil cost $25 plus $4 for the filter.
I change my own. So i can spend the money on Mobil One.
I change my oil when i want to. Not when some ahole tells me to.
So who cares when i change my damn oil??? Besides me?

First off; EXACTLY! It's a great discussion to have. We learn more and hopefully debunk myths (or create new ones). But why, oh why, oh why people get so upset about how other people maintain their vehicles is beyond me.

Second; you brought up something that just drives me NUTS. Synthetic oil shouldn't cost any more (any more than what the oil costs, that is) at a dealer or oil change place, but it always does. Why is a conventional change $29.99 but a full synthetic change $84.99? (Just using numbers I happened to see at a valvoline quick change place I drove by). Even if the oil change place was getting a big discount on conventional oil but paying retail per-quart on the full synthetic, it's not $55 more for synthetic oil. I once asked and the excuse I was given was "Well we sell less of it". The thing is; that's figured into the retail price! That's why synthetic oil probably has a bigger margin than conventional; because it's sold less often. The labor is the same; nothing changes. The oil is more expensive, so no doubt a synthetic change should cost more; but not that much more.

So yeah, that's why I do it myself too. Most oil changes places, with conventional, are so cheap nowadays that you can just swing in and not have to get dirty. But not the case with Synthetic. I get Amsoil by the case from a dealer at a good rate and change it myself.

10-04-2013 06:32 PM

Elizabeth

My engine cost several thousands of dollars. to replace it .. even more.
The oil cost $25 plus $4 for the filter.
I change my own. So i can spend the money on Mobil One.
I change my oil when i want to. Not when some ahole tells me to.
So who cares when i change my damn oil??? Besides me?

Added:
Synthetic oil was originally made from natural gas.. So it was 'created'. Then (fairly recently) some started making a similar product from ordinary petroleum (and it cost less to do) So even Mobil shut down it's natural gas to synthetic plant and started making it the cheap way too.
Now, only Amesoil and maybe Royal Purple make their synthetic from natural gas like old times.
All the rest is more carefully refined from petroleum.
I use Mobil One and have no fear that is may be 'inferior'.

10-04-2013 06:15 PM

Justintoxicated

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woggy64

From the 2012 manual:
Engine oil/coolant change intervals
Engine oil As indicated by the message center (can be up
to one year or 10,000 miles [16,000 km])

has anyone seen the message on the center screen yet? I always am a few miles early of the 10k mark, and didn't realize this car would display a message. I know GM cars show the percentage of oil life left in their message centers.

Nope I went over 13k and mine has never come on. Dealership denied it was broken. However they could not get my windshield washer fluid light to work either, and that was easy to prove. They ended up changing the PCM so I'm going to go 6k, change my oil and purposely not reset the sensor. If it does not come on for 12k, back to the dealer it goes until they fix it.

10-04-2013 02:57 PM

Opee33

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbdallas

As cynical as I am, sometimes even I am suckered in by marketing. This is the commercial that sold me on synthetic oils. Mobil1 is probably completely different today, but I've always thought this is the commercial you need to remember when you think of your turbo's best interests.

For me it was opposite in Canada same kind of ad just out of a -40c freezer showing cold starts.

10-04-2013 02:40 PM

cbdallas

As cynical as I am, sometimes even I am suckered in by marketing. This is the commercial that sold me on synthetic oils. Mobil1 is probably completely different today, but I've always thought this is the commercial you need to remember when you think of your turbo's best interests.

I agree with most of what you say, but synthetics do allow a longer oil change interval than conventional oils.

For example, Toyota's current recommendation for oil change intervals is 5,000 miles if using conventional and 10,000 miles if using synthetic. Similarly, Mobil says its conventional oil (Mobil Super 5,000) is guaranteed for 5,000 miles while Mobil1 synthetic is good for 10,000. So there's more to synthetics than simply better protection.

Fwiw, I too use a full synthetic and change it every 5,000 miles. This may be overkill but in the scheme of car ownership costs it seems like really cheap insurance. And when the cost differential between conventional and synthetics is so modest, why not use a syn?

Of course if Ford allowed the the Focus intelligent oil life monitor to share its thinking with its owner (i.e. % oil life remaining) instead of withholding this information until panic time, maybe I'd follow that instead.

Well that's why I said not all. Some oil manufacturers say you can run longer, and some car manufacturers say you can run longer; but not ALL. It's not an 'automatic' thing. Synthetic oil is still oil mined from the ground just much better refined (It's a myth that synthetic oil is somehow 'made in a lab', if we had that technology we wouldn't be worrying about drilling for oil for fuel would we?). It's USUALLY coupled more and better additives, which is where the longer change intervals come from. But it's not 'always'. That's why it's important to check with the car manufacturer and/or the oil manufacturer to see if your combination is intended to have longer intervals or not.

Also not all synthetics are created equal. Marketing is gimmicky. When synthetic oil caught on, people started labeling lots of other things synthetic. Brake fluid, gear oil, etc. They didn't change anything about the product; they just slapped a 'synthetic' label on it. The manufacturers don't even agree on what synthetic is. One calls a Base III stock conventional while another calls it synthetic! Synthetic oil is a crazy and varied world!

That said; I wouldn't worry too much about what the ford oil life monitor says. It's still just guessing. It's not measuring the oils viscosity, nor is it determining it's remaining additives or it's effectiveness. It's just guessing how long you can go on an average oil (semi-syn likely since that's what they use at the dealer), based on RPM's, engine heat, speeds, shift points, etc. It's probably a better 'guesstimate' than a fixed OCI; but oil can break down slower or faster. That's why OCI's are usually 'well within' the usable life of oil, unless you're doing UOA's every time, then you want to make sure you're not overrunning your oil because it just happens to be that one time it got a little hotter or sheared out of grade a little quicker. So you change it for a 'worst case scenario' for your vehicle. Given the way you drive and how the car is operated, what is the shortest amount of time that oil should remain completely within spec every single time? That should be your OCI!

10-04-2013 08:23 AM

dan50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans5.8

For the record, most (not all) full synthetic oil manufacturers do not label, advertise, or suggest extended intervals. That's just another one of those things "people say". Now some do, Amsoil namely, but others don't. They intend for you to follow the manufacturers recommendation whether you use conventional or synthetic. Traditionally, you run synthetic for greater engine protection, for it's improved ability to 'cling' to parts to reduce the amount of un-lubed parts on startup after the car has not run for a few hours or days, etc. etc. While full synthetic does stay in grade longer, there's more than viscosity to oil.

The 3k mile OCI was pushed by quick-lube places and found it's way into all the old wives tales. It was also pushed in a time when engines were less tightly machined, and oil was far worse. (Remember finding tons of metal shavings in your oil and filter after the first couple of oil changed on a new car? That was just part of breaking it in! Now we barely have a break in).

That said; 3k mile OCI's won't hurt anything. They can only serve you better. Some of us put a LOT of miles on our cars and I can certainly understand it! Oil changes really are not that expensive. It amazes me sometimes that people are willing to put thousands of dollars on a body kit, but aren't willing to change the oil. If you run it hard, 3k miles, even with synthetic, isn't a bad idea. But I would definitely never exceed the manufacturers recommendation without a used oil analysis.

All that said; OCI's are a 'guesstimate' anyway based on how oil performs 'on average'. A lot of the big trucking companies use high grade synthetic oil and perform used oil analysis on the oil periodically. They sometimes go 50,000 miles between oil changes and yet will put a million miles on a motor before a rebuild. For them, it's all about money. Analysts have balanced the cost of oil changes coupled with the tremendous cost of engines or rebuilds (plus the cost of having the truck down for days/weeks). If those purely cost-driven folks think UOA's are the most cost-effective way to maintain their vehicles; then it's something we could consider on our cars too! UOA's are real simple. They'll give you a bunch of numbers you may or may not understand, but usually, it'll be along with "You better change it in the next 1,000 miles" or "You're good for another 5,000 miles easy! Send another sample in at 4,000 miles and we'll see how it's holding up". Then you're changing the oil only when it's actually needed.

BUT; UOA's are pricey when compared to the cost of changing oil in a small engine. When changing 15+ quarts in a big diesel of oil that costs $10 a quart? Sure; that's one thing. But it's a thought anyway. I do periodic UOA's to confirm my OCI's. I do 5,000 mile OCI's myself. I do occasional UOA's to A) Confirm that my OCI is still right for my car and my oil and my driving conditions, and B) having a lab examine your oil is a fantastic way to keep tabs on your engines condition.

I agree with most of what you say, but synthetics do allow a longer oil change interval than conventional oils.

For example, Toyota's current recommendation for oil change intervals is 5,000 miles if using conventional and 10,000 miles if using synthetic. Similarly, Mobil says its conventional oil (Mobil Super 5,000) is guaranteed for 5,000 miles while Mobil1 synthetic is good for 10,000. So there's more to synthetics than simply better protection.

Fwiw, I too use a full synthetic and change it every 5,000 miles. This may be overkill but in the scheme of car ownership costs it seems like really cheap insurance. And when the cost differential between conventional and synthetics is so modest, why not use a syn?

Of course if Ford allowed the the Focus intelligent oil life monitor to share its thinking with its owner (i.e. % oil life remaining) instead of withholding this information until panic time, maybe I'd follow that instead.

10-04-2013 07:19 AM

Romans5.8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

3,000 mile OCI on full synth is funny.

For the record, most (not all) full synthetic oil manufacturers do not label, advertise, or suggest extended intervals. That's just another one of those things "people say". Now some do, Amsoil namely, but others don't. They intend for you to follow the manufacturers recommendation whether you use conventional or synthetic. Traditionally, you run synthetic for greater engine protection, for it's improved ability to 'cling' to parts to reduce the amount of un-lubed parts on startup after the car has not run for a few hours or days, etc. etc. While full synthetic does stay in grade longer, there's more than viscosity to oil.

The 3k mile OCI was pushed by quick-lube places and found it's way into all the old wives tales. It was also pushed in a time when engines were less tightly machined, and oil was far worse. (Remember finding tons of metal shavings in your oil and filter after the first couple of oil changed on a new car? That was just part of breaking it in! Now we barely have a break in).

That said; 3k mile OCI's won't hurt anything. They can only serve you better. Some of us put a LOT of miles on our cars and I can certainly understand it! Oil changes really are not that expensive. It amazes me sometimes that people are willing to put thousands of dollars on a body kit, but aren't willing to change the oil. If you run it hard, 3k miles, even with synthetic, isn't a bad idea. But I would definitely never exceed the manufacturers recommendation without a used oil analysis.

All that said; OCI's are a 'guesstimate' anyway based on how oil performs 'on average'. A lot of the big trucking companies use high grade synthetic oil and perform used oil analysis on the oil periodically. They sometimes go 50,000 miles between oil changes and yet will put a million miles on a motor before a rebuild. For them, it's all about money. Analysts have balanced the cost of oil changes coupled with the tremendous cost of engines or rebuilds (plus the cost of having the truck down for days/weeks). If those purely cost-driven folks think UOA's are the most cost-effective way to maintain their vehicles; then it's something we could consider on our cars too! UOA's are real simple. They'll give you a bunch of numbers you may or may not understand, but usually, it'll be along with "You better change it in the next 1,000 miles" or "You're good for another 5,000 miles easy! Send another sample in at 4,000 miles and we'll see how it's holding up". Then you're changing the oil only when it's actually needed.

BUT; UOA's are pricey when compared to the cost of changing oil in a small engine. When changing 15+ quarts in a big diesel of oil that costs $10 a quart? Sure; that's one thing. But it's a thought anyway. I do periodic UOA's to confirm my OCI's. I do 5,000 mile OCI's myself. I do occasional UOA's to A) Confirm that my OCI is still right for my car and my oil and my driving conditions, and B) having a lab examine your oil is a fantastic way to keep tabs on your engines condition.

10-03-2013 04:49 PM

Woggy64

I'm always a 100 +/- from the 10k mark.

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